PARALLELS, CENSURES, OBSERVATIONS. Aperteyning: TO THREE SEVERAL writings, 1. A Lettre written to Mr. Ric. Bernard, by john Smyth. 2. A Book entitled, The Separatists Schism published by Mr. Bernard. 3. An Answer made to that book called the Sep. Schism by Mr. H. Ainsworth. WHEREUNTO ALSO ARE ADJOINED. 1. The said Lettre written to Mr. Ric. Bernard divided into 19 Sections. 2. Another Letter written to Mr. A. S. 3. A third Lettre written to certain Brethren of the Separation. By john Smyth. Mat. 24.23. Then if any shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not. Us. 24. For there shall arise false Christ's, & false Prophets, & shall show great signs & wonders, so that if it were possible they should deceive the very elect: Us. 25. Behold, I have told you before. Mat. 7.15. Beware of false Prophets, which come to you in Sheep's clothing but inwardly are Ravening wolves. Us. 16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. joh. 10.1. He that entereth not in by the door into the Sheepfold but climbeth up another way, he is a thief, & a robber, Us. 10. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, & to kill, & to destroy. 2. Cor. 11.13. For such false Apostles are deceitful workers, & transform themselves into the Apostles of Christ, Us. 14. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Printed. 1609. TO EVERY ONE THAT SEEKETH AFTER the truth in sincerity: Salutations. NOt every thing, Gentle Reader, which a man writeth privately & suddenly to his friend is fit to be published openly to the view of the world: neither did I think that this letter written to Mr. Bernard in private upon three days meditation should have been made public in print to every man's eye & censure: which had I thought should have come to pass, I would with better advise & le●sure & so with more mature judgement have conceived & penned it. But seeing it is justly occasioned through Mr. Bernard's importunity in his late published book entitled the Separatists Schism, & his slanderous misconstructions & misreports up & down the country behind my back, that this letter of mine is strongly suspected of error, bitterness, rashness, uncharitableness, & imputations of them like nature: & by reason thereof my se● falleth under the hard & unknown, & happily undeserved censure of many well affected to the truth: whereat I cannot but be much wounded, both in mine own soul inwardly, & in my good name outwardly, which is always better & mo●e to be esteemed then a good ointment: I thought it much more tolerable to adventure myself, by exposing this untimely birth, I mean this suddenly conceived & penned letter, to the variable censures of the multitude: them by burying it in darkness & silence, like unto one still borne to superinduce a strong presumption of justly imputed blame upon myself by reason of this present letter: Therefore I do earnestly entreat every one friend, or other, into whose hands this present writing may come, to esteem it, as it is indeed, even a sudden private letter of one friend unto another: & not to respect it as it now falleth out to be a public wriring proclaimed as it were upon the house top: I cannot nor may not with fidelity alter one sentence or word of it, but as Mr. Bernard hath it copied in his hands, so have I published it word for word without any the least chandg to my knowledge, lest Mr. Bernard should say it is not the letter he had from me & that his slanderous collections & aspersions cast upon me in respect of the letter may be perceived by them that read this letter, & compare it with his book, notes, & speeches: And seeing necessity enforceth the identity of this letter without correction either of matter or words, I beseech the Gentle Reader friendly & favourably to construe all things, & interpret them in the better p●rt▪ promising that if any either error in matter: or tartness of speech be manifested unto me as my sin, I shall willingly confess & repent it before the world. And so upon hope of a favourable construction I desire to advertise further that Mr. Bernard had in his hands this letter of mine six or seven months before he published this his book entitled the Separatists Schism▪ which book as may be perceived by this letter, compared therewith, is principally directed in opposition & reprehension thereof: but how little cause Mr. Bernard had so to do, may now appear. For he should have answered before he had opposed: but that which he doth oppose is indeed answered already in the letter by prevention & anticipation that I shall not need to make answer a fresh to Mr. Bernard, he being now twice answered, once before his book was published, & now again since by Mr. Henry Ainsworth: Only I desire the reader to be advertised that there are some particulars wherein Mr. Ainsworth hath jest me & the truth in the open plain field to shift for ourselves: In regard whereof, as also because of Mr. Bernard's misaledging & misconstruing diverse parts of my letter written unto him, I have thought meet, not barely to publish this letter, but parallele-wise to compare Mr. Bernard's book▪ Mr. Ainsworths' answer, & this my letter together, as also to annex a few animadversions & observations aperteyning thereunto, that by this means the agreement & difference being discovered, the truth may appear where it is. Now although it be a grievous thing unto me to raise up adversaries against me without cause, especially brethren of true Churches: yet seeing I am necessarily interessed to defend the truth manifested in mine own writings, which I cannot possibly do but by way of opposition, therefore it cometh to pass that will I, will I, I must needs answer the opponent, left I betray the truth which by due order I am particularly called & singled out to defend. Wherefore for more evidence sake I have caused this letter written to Mr. Bern. to be divided into 19 Sections, & in every Section where need required, I have made parallels, animadversions, & observations for several purposes as the reader shall perceive in perusing them: Finally upon persuasion of friends▪ & for further cleared of the truth I have annexed two other letters, the one written to Mr. A.S. a Minister of the Church of England containing certain principal & main grounds of our cause which I desire may diligently be considered of every one that is willing to see the truth: the other written to ce ta'en brethren of the Separation for the confirming & establishing of them in the truth, against the assaults of Satan transforming himself into an angel of light thereby the better to deceive the simple: & howsoever it be needless to publish any thing further for the cleared of the truth of our cause out of those mists & fogs which subtle disputers & pleaders for corruption have like jannes & jambres those Egyptian jugglers cast before men's eyes, that they cannot readily discern a true serpent from a ●alfe: yet because new adversaries arise daily with new shifts & cavils therefore it is not amiss to discover their forgeries also that at the length it may evidently appear that the truth hath devoured error as Moses Serpent did the Enchanters: So desiring every one that loveth the Lord & the truth especially Mr. Ainsworth & Mr. Bernard to judge wisely of my course, & not to take any thing in the evil part which is a strong fruit of the flesh, I cease, wishing the truth may be honoured though men be shamed, Amen. JOHN SMYTH. A LETTRE WRITTEN TO MASTER Ric. B●●nard Minister off worksop, by joh. Smith Pastor off the Church at Ganesburgh. The First Section. Master Bernard I have sufficient reasons that have moved me to break silence in respect of you, & by this Letter to attempt a further trial of your pretended Zeal for the truth & faith of Christ: I have long time observed the applause yielded you by the multitude: Likewise I have taken notice of your forwardness in leading to a Reformation by public proclamations in Several pulpits out of that Text off Daniel. 3.16.17.18. As if you had meant contrary to the King's mind to have carried all the people in the country after you against the Ceremonies & Subscription: afterward having lost your vicarage of worksop for refusing Subscription or conformity I have observed how you revolted back & upon Subscription made to the Prelate of york, have re-entered upon your said vicaridg. Again I have noted your vehement desire to the parsonage of Sawenb●e, & your extreme indignation when you were defeated of it: Further your earnest desire to have been vicar of Ganesburgh, & all this after your subscription: beside I have carefully weighed with myself your Readiness to embrace this truth we profess, First, at Sr. W. Bows his house when it was opposed by some adversaries, after that your acknowledging of it before many witnesses at one time, & before one or two witnesses at diverse times, aledging Naamans' speech for your continuance in your ministery, 2. King. 5.18. as if thereby you meant to reserve liberty to sin against your conscience. And now of late I have considered your covenant made with one hundredth people, a thing of such note & observation as that the whole country ringeth of it: but alas again you have revolted from all this truth (only excepting your opposition against the dumb ministers) & have not only rejected it, but set yourself against it, hinder diverse from it, both in your putpits, & writings proclaim against it as error & schism, yea & begin to justify all the corruptions of the ministery, worship & government of the assemblies & all this with a high hand: All these things & many more I have noted in you, & all the forward professers, yea & the very enemies also have observed the same. In all which particulars two things may be minded: your inconstancy: & apostasy: (misconstre not the word) for how can I judge it otherwise seeing you have acknowledged the truth, & now reject it & oppose it▪ your inconstancy in falling of & on so often as you have done: now although these general reasons might have moved any of the Prophets & Teachers of our Church for the truth's sake, to have dealt with you: & to have discovered you to the simpler sort whom you seduce: yet I have attempted it upon two private grounds wherein I am especially interessed to this business: one is certain aspersions by you personally cast upon me: Another is certain particular oppositions directed against some of my writings: For the First, you may remember that at Broxtow when you returned from Mr. Hildersham before certain competent witnesses you uttered words tending to this purpose: that in defence of the truth we profess, I chose out asitt adversary (viz Mr. Rich Clifton) to deal withal; a man that could not dive into the depth of my arguments & that I refused to deal with you in that respect. This speech savoreth very strongly of pride, which vice take you heed of especially: it containeth also an untruth, & manifesteth contempt against a man of better ability than yourself in the judgement of them that know you both, besides the wrong that you do me, as if I knowing the cause we testife to be weak & bad durst not adventure it to the trial of your sufficiency & diving wit: but in good earnest Mr. Bernard tell me: is your dealing upright in this point? Do not you remember that you have in your hands & had in your hands at that instant when you uttered those words my answer written in one Column, to certain doubts & objections you made written in another Column, which I desired you to answer & whereto as yet I have received no answer from you? Surely you may pretend holiness & zeal for the truth, but this dealing & these speeches declare no such matter: yea rather they do manifest the corruption of your heart: This your speech & dealing is one reason that moveth me in Special to deal with you that your mouth may be stopped in that behalf: although it be stopped already sith you answer not my writing that is in your hands: & for Mr. Richard Clifton, I assure myself as you shall find shortly to your little credit, he will approve his sufficiency to be Superior to your diving wit: A Second reason that in particular leadeth me to meddle with you in this matter, is your oppositions against some truths which I have expressed in some of my writings. Parallels: Censures: Observations: aperteyning to the first Section. The place of Daniel mentioned in the beginning of this Section is: Dan. 3.16. O Nabuchadnezzar we are not careful to answer thee in this matter: 17. Behold our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the hot fiery furnace, & he will deliver us out of thine hand o King, 18. But if not, be it known to thee o King, that we will not serve thy Gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up. This place of Scripture Mr. Ber●a●● handled oft times in several places, in so much as every man conceived that he would have been a ring leader to reformation: For the circumstances being considered, that this Scripture was handled when the King urged Subscription & conformity throughout the whole land, & when diverse of the forwardest preachers were silenced, & himself then endangered to lose his vic●●ridg: that then he should thus p each was enough to have brought him within the compass of petty-rebellion, in stirring up the minds of the people against the King's proceed: besides the show of the text might afford that he compared the King to Nabuchadnezzar: Subscription, to the King's commandment of worshipping the golden image: Refusal of Subscription, to the Refusal of worshipping the golden image: the parts of Subscription to the golden image: the Ministers refusing Subscription to the three persons that refused to worship the golden image: their Resolution & courage to the Resolution of those three: The Prelates that urged Subscription & conformity, to the accusers of the jews: I would therefore know of Mr. Bernard whither his mind be now altered from that he held when he Preached these Sermons upon this text, if yea: then I demand whither fear of affliction & love of his living & reputation with the world, have not caused that in him: & whither a man should believe him rather now he is a formalist, then before when he was a reformist. The place of Naaman the Assyrian is this: 2 King. 5.18. When I bow in the house of Rimmon to worship, the Lord be merciful unto thy Servant in this point. By this place Mr. Bern. intended to sin against his conscience for he did acknowledge this truth we now profess diverse times, & was upon the point of Separation with some of his people with him: yet loving the world & preferment as Naaman is thought to do he chose rather to stay still in his vicarage against his conscience, then to lose it & to follow Christ with a good conscience: do you not remember Mr. Bern. what you said to me & Mr. Rob. Southw. coming together from w: that speaking of the danger of walking in this truth of Christ we now profess you said you could easily die upon the tree for the truth, but you could not without great horror think of being burned as the Martyrs were in Q. mary's days? & that all the journey you were casting how to dispatch your estate & to get away with safety: I speak this to prove unto you & the world, that you were as forward to the truth of Christ with us then, as you were before to the cause of the Reformists: & yet as then so now you have wholly & I fear finally apostated from it: the L. be merciful unto you in these your sins: whereupon this followeth that if ever you come to the truth of Christ we profess, you can not be admitted into the office of Elder in the Church, but therein you must bear your iniquity, because you have apostated fearfully from the truths you did acknouwledg, therein giving Suspicion of your constancy & faithfulness for the time to come: & whither you be a worthy Minister of your own Church, let the Reformists judge who have betrayed their cause into the Prelate's hands so shamefully as you have done: wherefore be it known unto you, first, that we reject you, Seconbly, that the Reformists have just cause to reject you whither then will you go, but to your LI. the Prelates to whom you have sworn your Can. obedience, & unto whom you have now at the last fuly returned as it were a dog to the vomit, & a swine to wallow in the mire. But your covenant Mr. Bern. is beyond all the endeavours of all the reformists of the land that you should cull out an hundredth persons of so many paris hes so far distant to enter covenant together not to hear the dumb Ministers, to watch one over another, to admonish one another, etc. And thereupon to receive the Lords Supper: What? was not the covenant the Church of England large enough, but you must enlarge it thus? Did not your conscience tell you then that the dumb ministry was unlawful? that you sinned in not admonishing your brethren & therefore went to seek out an hundredth brethren where your proctor or agent could find them? That all your parish were not your brethren, being not of your covenant, though of the covenant of the Church of England? or that you had two sorts of brethren, one of a general nature, viz: all the people of the parish? another of a Spiritual nature, viz: Those hundredth persons of your covenant? & yet that you admitted both those sorts of your brethren to all the holy things among you, excepting the particular covenant? I pray you with your logic, or divinity, justify unto us these things. But now all this is forgotten & the Prelate of york hath so bewitched you with his flattery, eloquence, & angels, that your covenant is profaned & cast in the dust, men of your covenant must shift for themselves, you have deceived them like the staff of reed, & you justify your wont speeches, you love the world, & ease with all your heart: & therefore I say unto you with the Apostle: The love of the Father is not in you: I do therefore Proclaim you unto the whole land to be one of the most fearful Apostates of the whole nation that excepting, White, & Claphan, you have no Superior nor equal that I know or remember, who have thus often confessed & witnessed much truth, & now not only have fallen from it, but have so childishly & yet most slanderously written against the cause of the Lord, to blaspheme the name of the Lord, his Tabernacle & them that dwell in Heaven, as if, because your sins weren not known Sufficiently to the world, your would with ink & paper publish them to all men & ages to come, that they might remain in record agaist you upon the file at the day when the Lord shall recompense every man according to his work. But Mr Bernard there is yet one other thing that I must discover to the world: namely that you have written a book against the Prelates, wherein you have proved by diverse arguments that their authority is Antichristian: this book some of your Friends have seen & read & though you durst not print it yourself, yet you would have been content a Friend should have caused it to be published under the vizard of an unknown Author: is not this so Mr. Bern? then tell me with what face, or conscience you can Subscribe to the Prelacy, you can plead for the Prelacy: is not this to build that which you have destroyed? Surely all these things compared together do plainly convince, your deep Hypocrisy: & yet in your pulpit & among the simple sort you would seem a brother to the Sons of Thunder: but I desire the Lord to open the eyes of his people that they be no longer deceived by such Pharisaical Hypocrites as your deeds manifest you to be even in the indifferent censure of those that love you best. Now therefore to conclude this Parallel of your Famous or rather infamous acts: compare your resolurion against Subscription & conformity, with your Subscription to the Prelate of york: your acknowledgement of the truth with Naamans' presumption to sin: your covenant, with your confirmity: your book against the Prelates, & your book against the Separation & thereupon it will follow, that you are as chandgable as the Moon, as mutable as Proteus, as variable as the chameleon. And whereas you object against me pag. 37. & 73. that before I came to the truth I wrote against it & was distracted to & fro before I saw it cleared to my judgement & conscience, I must needs acknowledge it so to be, which was my greater sin, & the weakness of my understanding, but therein the L. hath showed mercy unto me, which mercy I desire also for you: but what is this to excuse your slandering, railing, scoffing, inconstancy, Apostasy, conformity, subscription, blasphemy, & the rest which you have plentifully discovered to all the world: Show me, how & when after the acknowledgement of the truth, I fell back as you have done many times? that I ever yielded to the Prelates, conformity, or Subscription, after I once withstood it? & among the rest of your follies there is one untruth that I did kneel down & praise God for Satisfaction after doubting, Not so: I remained doubting always till I saw the truth after I once doubted, but during the time of my doubting which was 9 Months at the least I did many actions arguing doubting, but that I ever sell back from any truth I saw I praise God, I can with a good conscience deny it, & you are never able to prove that against me: but the L. will cut out the tongue that speaketh lies. The second Section. These oppositions of yours you have written in a letter which came of late to my sight: which are thus in your letter. Touching your opinions in these things shall I never be persuaded that you do well in: 1, In Separating from all the Reformed Churches. 2. In holding that one sin of one man publicly & obstinately stood in & not reform by a true constituded Church doth so pollute it, that none may commicate with it in the holy things of God till the party offending be by the Church put out after lawful conviction. 3. In maintaining that it's not lawful to hear any ministers amongst us whatsoever thy be, nor to join in prayer with such as fear God among us. 4. In holding that Princes have no more to do in Ecclesiastical causes, than one of you in a particular congregation. 5. That the power of binding & losing is given to the whole multitude, & not to the principal members thereof. 6. That the word truly preached & Sacraments rightly administered are no infallible tokens of a true Church. 7. That a minister may be made without Elders ordinarily I mean for extraordinary courses are not now to be used, for aught I see. 8. That such as are not in your way are to be accounted without after the Apostles meaning, 1. Cor. 5.12. 9 That those which are not of a true constituted Church are no subjects of Christ's Kingdom. 10. That an erroneous constitution of a Church is a real Idol. 11. That only Saints as Mr. Smith defineth them by 4 proporties are the matter only of a visible Church. 12. That every of our assemblies are false Churches, all our ministers false ministers, our worship a false worship. 13. That a company truly fearing God, if any open wicked join with them are not capable to choose them a minister over them. 14. That baptism is not administered among us simply into the faith of Christ, but into the faith of the Bbs. or Church of England. 15. That ministers ought only to live of voluntary contribution & not of stipends or any set maintenance. 16. That our Churches ought to be razed down, & not to be employed to the worship of God. Al which I do verily believe to be crrors, & I see not which way men can join to you to swallow up all these as truths into which you do run in avoiding our corruptions: & that with such deep condemnation of us, as is greatly in your behalf to be lamented: but I am tedious, etc. _____ R. B. This is your writing word for word: wherein you have taxed me by name in one particular, & indeed in most of them: it shallbe my part therefore to clear these matters for your information, that if it be the will of God, you may see the truth & walk in it, which I unfeignedly desire of the Lord: or else that you may no longer seduce others from the truth, your corrupt walking being once discovered unto the simple: my intent therefore is not to take these points in that order which you have placed them in, but to assume them in the natural order wherein things usually among Scholars are discoursed. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the Second Section. I desire here to advertise the reader, that these 16. points which Mr. Bern. accounteth error are again in his book entitled the Seperatifts Schism rehearsed, refined, augmented changed, as it pleaseth the forger into another order, shape & number which it shall not be impertinent here to propound for evidence sake, that the Reader comparing these 16. points with those 22. (For so they are in number) may discern the agreement & difference, & so more fully be informed of the whole cause. The particulars are these following, as they are expressed in diverse pages of his book as. pag. 78 the title of them is this. The Errors of the Separatists, & the matter of their Schism. 1. They hold that the constitution of our Church is a false constitution, pag. 78. 2. They hold our constitution a real Idol, & so us idolaters, pag. 79. 3. That such as are not of a particular constituted Church (to wit such a one as theirs is) are no subjects of Ch. Kingdom. pag. 80.81. 4. That all not in their way are without; & do apply against us, 1. Cor. 5.12. Eph. 2.12. pag. 82. 5. That only Saints, (that is) a people forsaking all known sin of which they may be convinced, doing all the known will of God in creasing & abiding ever therein, are the only matter of a visible Church, pag 83. 6. That the power of Christ, that is, authority to preach, to administer the Sacraments & to exercise the censures of the Church belongeth to the whole Church, yea to every one of them, & not to the principal members thereof. pag. 48. 7. That the sin of one man publicly & obstinately stood in being not reform, not the offender cast out, doth so pollute the whole congregation, that none may communicate with the same in any of the holy things of God (though it be a Church rightly constituted) till the party be excommunicated, pag. 102.103. 8. That every of our assemblies are false Churches, pag. 109. 9 Al our Ministers say they, are false Ministers, pag. 128. 10. Our worship say they is a false worship, pag. 146. Divers other opinions they hold which I will also set down: & they be these, pag. 150.151. 1. That our congregations as they stand are all & every of them uncapable before God to choose them Ministers, though they desire the means of salution. pag. 151. 2. That God in our best assemblies is worshipped after a false manner, pag. 151. 3. That baptism is not administered into the faith of Ch. simply. but into the saith of Bishops or Church of England, pag. 152. 4. That our saith & repentance is a false faith & false repentance, pag. 152. 5. That our Ministers converting men to God here, do it not as Pastors, but as Teachers, pag, 152. 6. That our Church standoth in an adulterous estate, pag. 152. 7. That they cannot say certainly by any warrant off God's word that any of us hath either faith, or sear god. pag. 152. 8. That none off our Ministers may be heard, pag. 152. 9 That it is not lawful to join in prayer with any off us, pag. 155. 10. That Ministers may not celebrate marriage, nor bury the dead, pag. 156. 11. That Ministers should only live off voluntary contribution, & not either off set stipends or tithes, pag. 156. 12. That our Churches ought to be razed down, & not to be employed to the true worship of God, pag. 156. And thus much off this & all other their Brownistical opinions, pag. 157. This is the Recapitulation of our Brownistical opinions, as Mr. Bern. of his blasphemous uncharitableness giveth them their denomination: Remember herein that every company of men whom god raised up in this latter age to testify for the truth against the man of sin, hath been entitled with like names, as Lutherans, Calvinists, Zwinglians, etc. As in the act: Christians are called the Sect of the Nazarits. whence I for my part should rather gather encouragemeht in the truth we hold then any discouragement, seeing no other thing befalleth us herein then befell all the witnesses of the L. truth in all ages: but let Mr. Bern & his comforts understand that we chardg them with Antichristianis me, which they can not deny, but which the best & most sincere professors of the truths which he calleth Brownistical, we justify from the holy Scriptures, wherein let Mr. Bern. consider whither he do not wound the Holy Scriptures, the Holy Apostles, Christ jesus himself, & the Holy Spirit, the author off the Holy Scriptures, & that through our sides. For if these opinious as we hold them be the truth of God, then is he a blasphemer in a very high degree & I would know whither he that heretofore oft times confessed them for truths can nowwithout horrible impiety apostasy & blasphemy, proclaim them Brownistical opinions: see also whither his conscience can be clear in this Now Further I desire the reader to compare these 22. particulars, with the 16. points which I in this letter have answered, & thereby he shall observe two things. First that Mr. Bern her in chargeth us with no thing truly which is not already answered in this letter, & therefore he needed not again to have objected these things publicly except he had first published the letter & answered the particulars thereof, but herein it seemeth he thought to blear the eyes of the world, & to bear men in hand that he had something to say which was unanswerable, which notwithstanding was already answered as may be perceived. Secondly, that this book of Mr. Ber. is most properly & directly aimed at my letter, wherein I am most especially interessed to yield answer, & though it be once answered by another: & happily may receive a third answer, yet I cannot overpass it lest I seem to betray the truth who am by name singled out to the combat? finally seeing Mr. Bern. hath published against us without answer to this letter, let us also herein consider his fraud & decept, in perverting, misconstruing, adding, detracting, falsely charging us following therein the dealing off his Father the Devil, with Christ, & our first parents: For all these evil courses I will discover evidently to the reader, that Mr, Bern. in the particular Sections of this letter hath used with me: & so let these be added to his former sins mentioned in the First Section, & it will appear that he is now manifested by the L. to be one that hath fulfilled the measure of his iniquity. The third Section. The first point therefore that I will speak to is vour tenth. viz: 10. That an erroneous constitution of a Church is a real Idol. Here I would fain know whence you had this position, I confess I have written some such thing: but neither have I written neither do I hold it as you propound: I say that a Religion's society framed after the invention of a man without the warrant of the word is a real Idol: but I do not say that some errors in the constitution of a Church maketh that Church a real Idol: For as in generation every fault in the seed which is the matter, as for example a seed inclined to the gont, or consumption, or stone doth not make a false man, but the party begotten may be a true man not withstanding the infirmity of the seed: So in the constitution of a Church not every error, (as if the members whereof the Church is framed have ignorances errors or infirmities in them,) maketh the Church a real idol: For so there should never possibly be a true Church in the world, seeing it is impossible to find men free from error. Therefore this is the ground that I hold, that if either the matter of the Church be not such as the word teacheth, but a devised matter: or of the form be not that which the word teacheth, but a devised form: or if the Church have not the properties which Gods word teacheth, which do necessarily proceed from the form induced upon the matter: then such a Church I avouch to be a real idol: take a fimilitude to illustrate it: The seed of an ass & a horse mingled together in generation do not produce either a true horse, or a true ass, but a third thing formally differing from both viz: a mule: even so wicked men joined with Godly men in a Church, do not produce a true Church, but a false Church, viz: a real Idol the church of Antichrist. For this point consider what the holy Ghost writeth: Apoe 18.2. That antichrist's Church is there Prophesied to be a cage of every unclean & hateful bird, which might not be eaten or offered in Sacrifice by the Holy people, Deut. 14, 3.11. again, 2. Cor. 6.14. The Apostle willeth the Corinth's not to yoke with unbelievers because as in the old Testament the Holy people were forbidden to yoke an ox which was a clean creature, & an affe which was unclean to draw the plough together, Deut 22.10. Even so the faithful may not now yoke themselves to draw the L. plough with un believers, because they may have no communion, concord, agreement, followiship, or part the one with the other, but the faithful who are righteousness, light of the body of Christ the Temple of God, the Children of God, must come out from the unbelievers, who are unrighteousness, darkness, of Belial, the habitation of Devils, Apoc, 18.2, yea & must be separated from them: & must touch none of there uncleanness. For if they still stand in confusion with the unbelievers, consenting to all their sins, they in that constitution are not a true Church, but the prayers they offer up with the prayers of the wicked, coming from that false constitution are tainted with the idolatry of that constitution: but perhaps you will say that although a false constitution be a sin yet it is not Idolatry: you must manifest it to me to be a sin of another commandment if you plead that: otherwise I still hold it to be a sin of the Second commandment viz: to worship God in a constitution of an human invention, even as it was in the Church of jeroboams in vention: & as it is in a popish parish assembly, & as it is in the English assemblies: now further to prove unto you that a false constitution of a Church is an Idol: I use these places. 2. Cor. 6.16. What agreement hath the Temple of God with Idols? The faithful who have made a covenant with God are here cailed the temple of God: & thereunto are Idols opposed: signifying that an assembly of men who are unfaithful, (though some faithful men be among them who are commanded to come out & to be Separated) endevoring to worship God after their fashion are an Idol: therefore if the temple of jerusalem now stood, & the jews assembled to worship God there after the fashion of the Old Testament, that assembly was an Idol: So are the assemblies of Turks Idols: So are the assemblies of Papists Idols: as abbeys, Monasteries, etc. Such are all churches framed of a false matter, or having a false covenant. 1. joh. 5.21. Babes keep yourselves from images. Zach. 11.17. The Apostle who wrote the Revelation forcing through the Spirit of prophecy the abominable idolatries of Antichrist, which would grow up in the Church giveth the Churches a caution especially to take heed of those Antichristian idolatries: now the idolatries of Antichrist are not heathenish & paganish, but of another nature, viz: not false Gods, but means invented by men to worship the true God in or by: Hence I gather thus: Whatsoever means is devised out of a man's brain & used as a means to honour God in or by, is an Idol: A devised constitution of a Church is of that nature. Ergo an Idol. For further amplification whereof consider that as a false minister (whereof afterward) is an Idol minister: Zach. 11.17. So a Church of a false constitution is a false Church that is an Idol Church: & as it was unlawful yea flat Idolatry for a Priest of jeroboams devising to offer Sacrifice to the L. So is it also Idolatry to offer up service to God in a Church of a false constitution. Col. 2.23. Mat. 15.9. Will-worship & vayne-worship is forbidden in these two places: namely, such worship as is offered to God after the will & precept of man, whose wisdom is enmity to God: But a false constitution of a Church is after the will & precept of man even invented & devised: go it is forbidden: but will worship & vain worship is a transgression of the second commandment, go: it is idolatry, & so that false Church wherein or whereby it is offered up to God an Idol. These things are manifest to him that will not blindfold himself, I pray you consider of the particulars by me alleged: & if you find a truth in them embrace the truth & lead on your people with you to the truth: if not, let us here from you an answer, that we may see our errors, & we will & can reform: so cannot you so long as you stand as you do: there is no way to reform but to Separate, as we have done already. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the third Section. I published a little Method not long since entitled, Principles & inferences concerning the visible Church: in the tenth page of the book I writ thus: visible Churches constituted according to the devise of men are Real Idols. Mr. Bern. in the beginning of his third Section chargeth us to hold, That an erroneous constitution of a Church is a real Idol. & in his book entitled the Separatists Schism pag. 79, hath these words: They hold our constitution a real Idol, & so us idolaters: & pag. 152. of the same book he writeth thus: that our Church (viz the Church of England) standeth in an adulterous estate: accounting this as an error that we defend. Mr. Ainsw. in the answer to Mr. Bern. pag. 172. faith, that a false constitution of a church set up in stead of a true, what is it better than a very Idol? Here let us consider the difference & agreement betwixt Mr. Ains. & me: he saith a very Idol, I say a real Idol: I call a false constitution a real Idol, For that in existence & being it is an Idol: Mr. Ainsw. calleth a falsely constituted Church a very Idol, because it is indeed & truly an Idol: here is little difference except it be in words: but for the further cleared of my position viz: that a falsely constituted Church is a real Idol: two things must be discovered: 1. what an Idol is: 2. what Real is. For the first understand that most properly an Idol is contrary to an ordinance apoinred by God in matter of Religion: So the Apostle willeth the brethren to keep themselves from images or Idols, 1. joh. 5.21. & the Lord himself in the Second Commandment forbiddeth, under the phrases of making & worshipping images, all inventions of men in matter of Religion, Exod. 20.4.5, Now matter of religion especially subsisteth, in Religious worship, or religious government, For the Saints are made Kings & Priests unto God: & as Kings they excercise a regiment, as Priests they perform their Sacrifices Revel. 1.6, 1. Co. 6. 1-9.1. Pet. 2.5. & therein they perform homage to the Lord, & submit their consciences to be wrought upon. & seeing the conscience must bow only to the Lord, & not to man otherwise then in the Lord, therefore in matter of Religion the conscience is not to yield to any thing devised by man: but must always have the Lord for the leader & Governor therein: hence than it followeth that whosoever substituteth any devise of man, any thing taught by the precept of man: Mat. 15.9. Esay 29.13. any will worship, or any ordinance of the world in matter of Religion, setteth up that which is contrary to the Lords ordinance, contrary to the Lords will, contrary to the Lords wisdom, & I would fain learn whither this be not an Idol or image: So that Idols are of two sorts: 1. A false God, 2, A false means to honour or submit, or do homage to the true God in or by: as a false or devised time, place, person, instrument, action, & if the●be any thing of the like consideration: therefore a false or devised time may be called an Idol day as 1, King. 12.33. the month which jeroboam appointed for the worship of his Calves is called the month which he had forged of his own heart, that is an Idol month & so by consequent the 15 days of that month an Idol day. So in the old Testament the place where God was to be worshipped was the Tabernacle or Temple. Deut. 12. 5-8. & therefore the high places in iudah also Dan & Bethel in Israel were Idol places because they were places forged out of the hearts of them that first appointed them: such were all the places dedicated by the heathen to worship their Gods in, which therefore were commanded to ●he razed down: Deu, 12.2.3. so likewise a shepherd or minister framed according to the devise of man is called a foolish or Idol Shepheard: Zach. 11.17. Such were jeroboams Preistst 1. King. 12.31. & the false Apostles, 2. Cor: 11. 13-15. who are therefore called the ministers of Satan: In like manner Gideons' Ephod: judge. 8.27. Michaes Ephod, Teraphin● & molten image, judg. 17.4.5. The brazen Serpent 2. King. ●8. 4. being instruments of idolatry might justly have been called Idol instruments & so forth for actions. Thus we see the first point what an Idol is, & by consequent that Idols are infinite in number, & that they are not only 47. as Mr. Bern. faith Marlorat reckoneth them: & again that Mr. Bern. question is answered which he maketh pag. 152. What Idol worship we Saith Mr. Bern? I answer that Mr. Bern. doth both worship an Idol, & worshippeth in or by Idols: The Idol which he worshippeth is a false Christ, who is neither a King to him, seeing he submitreth not to his kingdom & ordinances thereof, nor a Priest, seeing he yieldeth not to his true ministery, nor a Prophet, seeing he receiveth not the Holy doctrine which he teacheth: but yieldeth to a Kingdom, Preishood & Prophecy erected & established according the doctrine & commandments of men: as shallbe sufficiently cleared hear after & hath been o●t times already done: The Idols wherein & whereby he worshippeth, is, 1. his own false Church, 2. his own false standing as a meber of the false church 3. his own false Ministry, 4. his own false parish Church, or Idol Temple, 5. his service book, 6. his Lords the Prelates, their courts, & ministers wherein & whereto he submitteth. Generally: look how many Prelates, Priests, Deacons, Parishes, Temples, Service books, Surplices, Crosses, Holy days, Courts Ecclesiastical, Officers in these Courts there are in the Land: So many Idols there are: that we may say as Esay said in his time of judah, Esay, 2.8. their land is full of Idols. & so this question of yours Mr. Bern. is answered: Now the second point to be manifested is. What is Real: I opposed Real to mental as may be seen Princip Inferenc. pag. 9 & 10. Mental or intellictual is that which hath his being in the mind or understanding: as the frame of the English Churches conceived in the mind, I called a mental Idol: Real is that which hath an existence & being out of the mind & conceit: as the Parish Church of worksop, whereof Mr Bern. is vicar, is a real Idol, having existence, & being not only in the mind & conceit, but also in deed & truth. Now Real is either Natural, or Moral, or Artificial, or Political. Natural as a man, Moral as virtue, Artificial as a house, Political as a City or common wealth, & whereas I called a falsely constituted Church a real Idol, I intended it a real Politic Idol: For so a Church is a polity, City, or common wealth. Revel. 11.2, & 18.2. Wherhfore as the true Church is the Holy City the new jerusalem that cometh down from God out of heaven: Revel. 21.2. Even that true Polity & common wealth of Israel, Eph. 2.12. So the false Church is Babylon, Egypt, Sodom, that City, Polity, common wealth, or Synagogue of Satan: & so a Political Real Idol: & therefore the English assemblies being proved to be false Churches, are real Idols. Let us in the next place consider what Mr. Bern. saith to these things: First he saith the Scripture never taketh an Idol in this sense: I have both in this Section of my letter, also in this Parallel showed him already that an Idol is so taken in the Scripture, but for further evidence I use this argument. That which is contrary to a true Church is an Idol. A falsely constituted Church is contrary to a truly constituted Church. Ergo: A falsely constituted Church is an Idol. The Major is true by natural reason as also by the consideration of the nature of contraries: For as light is contrary to darkness, virtue to vice: white to black: fire to water: So is true contrary to false, & a true Church, to a false Church. The major is the Apostles own argument, 2. Cor. 6.16. his words are: what agreement hath the Temple of God with Idols? whence I reason thus: That which is contrary to the Temple of God, is an Idol. That which is contrary to the true Church, is contrary to the Temple of God For the true Church is the Temple of God. Ergo: That which is contrary to the true Church is an Idol. hereupon it followeth that seeing the Apostle opposeth an Idol to the temple of God as he opposeth light to darkness, Christ to Belial: & seeing the Temple of God is the true Church, therefore an Idol in that place is a false Church: now Mr. Bern, with all your learning avoid this place, & I will yield you this particular. Further, A false Christ is an Idol. A false Church is a false Christ. Ergo, a false Church is an Idol. The Major is undeniable. The Minor is proved two ways: First by the contrary thus: A true Church is true Christ as may be collected from these two places, 1. Cor. 12.12 Gal. 3, 16. Therefore a false Church is a false Christ. Secondly it may be proved by Christ's own words, Mat. 24.24. there shall arise false Christ's, & false Prophets, that is to say false churches, & false Ministers which profess & teach doctrines of the Lord jesus falsely, both of his person & offices as the Arrians, the Lutheran ubiquitists, the Papists, the Anabaptists, etc. Thus you see we have proved unto you now this second time that a falsely constituted Church is a real Idol. But because you cannot sound answer, therefore blasphemously you scoff at the doctrine of the constitution of the true Church, we do constantly & boldly defend that out of a Church truly constituted (when a man can & may join thereto) no ordinance of God can be accepted, neither preaching, nor praying, nor Sacraments, nor any other religious action. what the Lord accepteth in secret that we dispute not: but what the word of God teacheth unto us to be acceptable that we speak of. And tell me Mr. Bernard, can there be a true ministry, a true baptism, a true faith, true prayer, true preaching, or administering the L. supper true excommunication in the church that is falsely constituted? did the L. accept of the Sacraments & Sacrifices of the Church of Israel constituted by jeroboam that author of Idolatry? doth not the Lord say unto that people in that false Church, Lo, Ammi, Lo, Ruhamah, No People, No Pity, Hosea, 1.6.9. & is not the Lord as severe now against a Church falsely constituted in the New Testament, as he was against the false Church of the ten tribes in the old Testament? or do you think that the Lord accepteth of a false saith, ministry, baptism, prayer, preaching, excommunication & the rest? make these things agree Mr. Bern. if you can: if you cannot, cease your scoffing, & give glory unto God: I demand of you: do you think that God accepteth the prayers & Religious exercises of the Papists, the Arrians, the Anabaptists, the Familists, or any other heretics or Antichristians, if not what is the true cause that God accepteth them not? is it not for that there is not that true communion of the Saints there, the true Church, the true spouse of Christ, the Spiritual Temple where God hath provised his presence? So than it followeth invincibly that a tive constitution of a church, that is a true communion of Saints, is that only lawful religious, society, or communion of men, whereby God willbe honoured, wherein he willbe served, & whereto he hath promised his presence & acceptance: & as conventicles are unlawful assemblies of men in civil states, so are all false churches unlawful ecclesiastical assemblies & the actions therein performed unlawful, & so abominable in the sight of God, the sum of all 〈◊〉 briefly thus much. That communion of men whereto God hath given the covenant: the Holy things the promises, Christ for King, Priest, & Prophett, is only accepted, & their Ecclesiastical actions only acceptable: But a true visible church, that is a communion of Saints, joined together in the true covenant, is that only communion of men whereto God hath given his covenant, his promises, his holy things, Christ for King, Priest & Prophet. Therefore a true visible church, that is a communion of Saints, & their actions ecclesiastical, as preaching & prayers, etc. are only accepted. & by consequent on the contrary 〈◊〉 inserre thus. That communion of men whereto God hath not given the covenant, the holy things the promises, Christ for King, Priest, & Prophet, is not accepted of God, neither their actions ecclesiastical are acceptable. A Church falsely constituted (as in the old Testament was the Apostate church of the ten tribes, & in the new Testament is the churches of Antichrist) is such a communion of men, whereto God hath not given the covenant, the holy things, the promises, Christ for King, Priest, & Prophet. Therefore a church falsely constituted is not accepted of God, neither are their actions ecclesiastical, as prayer, preaching, etc. acceptable in the sight of God. hereupon I conclude not as Mr. Bern. blasphemously scoffeth that the Idol or Goddess constitution, but that the true constitution of a Church which is the Lords Holy ordinance is that which Sanctifieth all ecclesiastical actions: & that a false idolatrous, Antichristian constitution of a church, corrupteth, polluteth, staineth all the ecclesiastical actions of that false church: So saith the Apostle, unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled & unbelieving is nothing pure. Tit. 1.15. & this is my well-beloved son (saith the Father from heaven) in whom I am well pleased, Mat. 3.17. & God heareth not sinners, but only the true worshippers: joh. 9.31. Finally, I avouch that a falsely constituted church is a greater & more abominable Idol, than any Idol that possibly can be in a true church: For a false worship, Ministry & government may be indeed in a true Church through ignorance & the like occasions: But a true ministery, worship & government cannot possibly be in a false Church: For the true ministery, worship, & Government are the Holy things of God, which are not given to false Churches, but only to the true Churches of Christ, the true communion of Saints: & a false Church being an Idol doth convey her idolatrous & false constitution as a poison through all her Ecclesiastical actions or works off communion: Briefly therefore to compare True & False: Idols & Ordinances together: Bonum qu● communius eo melius: Malum quo communius eo peius: They are two maxims true in nature & experience, &▪ so also in Religion: Truth & ordinances the more common & universal the better & more excellent: Falsehood & Idols, the more common & general the worse & more pernicious, For example, a true Church better than a true worship, than a true Ministry, than a true government, etc. A false Church worse than a false worship, than a false Munistery, than a false government, etc. For a true Church is the first & most noble & universal in Religion, from whence all the rest issue as a stream from the Fountain: & a false Church is the first, most ignoble & general qualifying all the ecclesiastical actions of the Church with her own falsehood & idolatry: Therefore I am bold to pronounce your false & idolatrous Church constitution to be worse than your false ministery, worse than your false worship, worse than your false government, etc. & on the contrary, our true constitution to be the most honourable & beautiful ornament of our Church; more glorious than our true ministery, worship, & government, sith these latter issue & do flow from the former as from the spring ●r Fountain. A true man may have a wooden leg, an eye of glass: So a true Church may have a false ministry & worship, or government. A man carved out of wood, cannot possibly have any truth of a man in him, but all his parts & limbs are wooden, even as the image is of wood So a false Church can have nothing true in it, but all is false, idolatrous, usurped, for what agreement hath Christ with Belial? These things are plain enough to them that will understand. The fourth Section. Your ninth position followeth, viz: 9 That those which are not of a true constituted Church, are no subjects of Christ's Kingdom: This you hold error, & I hold it truth which I will manifest unto you most evidently, The true Church in the Scripture is called the house of God, Heb. 3.6. The Temple of God which the L. inhabiteth, & wherein he walketh. 2. Cor. 6.16. The household of faith, Gal. 6.10. the body of Christ, Eph. 4.15.16. The Kingdom of heaven of Christ & of God, Eph. 5.5. Mat. 3.2. Luk. 19.11.12. Act. 1.3. Further this true Church is but of one shape, form, fashion, or constitution: Eph. 4.4 The body that is the Church is one, that is of one shape: For one in that place signfieth unum specie, not unum numero, for there are many Churches in number, but one true Church in the frame or constitution: Let this therefore be set down for an invincible truth that the true visible Church is the Kingdom of Christ, where Christ the King only ruleth & reigneth in his own laws & officers & over his own subjects: & all those that will not be subjects to this King in this his Kingdom he accunteth his enemies & will have them slain before his face Luk. 19.27. Hence than it followeth that those that are not members of a true constituted Church, are not subjects of Christ's Kingdom: which you say is error, wherein you see you give the Holy Ghost the lie, imputing error unto the word of truth: But you will say if men be not subjects of Christ's Kingdom, there is no salvation for them▪ I deny that: will you condemn all the jews, Turks, Papists in the world? yet I say they are no subjects of Christ's Kingdom which is the true visible Church: I pray you therefore be as good to us, as you are to your sel●e in that censure: wherefore we must remember to distinguish betwixt the visible Church which is Christ's Kingdom, & the Catholic Church whi●● is invisible. The visible▪ Church hath in it a visible communion, visible & sensible ordinances for men to walk in a visible faith expressed in the outward declarations thereof in confession, & profession of the truth, this visible Church must we join to & live in, this is the sheepfold wherein Christ foldeth his sheep, into this sheepfold both sheep & shepherd must enter by the door, & not climb up another way as thieves, & robbers do: Of all those that live & continue in this true visible Church we are bound to believe holmes, faith & election in particular. Eph 1.1.4. Now the Catholic Church which is invisible is the comprehension of all the elct in all ages & places: whose persons are unknown to us, & such secret things the L. hath reserved to himself, & concealed from our knowledge, & therefore we are not to search after them, but must walk in that way which he hath taught in his word where so much of his will as is fit for us to know is revealed: now I would have you manifest to me two things concerning this point: one is that the Catholic Church is Christ's Kingdom, another is that all that are on't of the visible Church are condemned: I for my part hold the contrary, viz: First that the visible Church truly constituted is the only Kingdom of Christ, which he at the day of judgement shall give up into the hands of his Father, 1. Cor. 15.24. & that therefore they who are not members of Christ's true visible Church are no subjects of Christ's Kingdom: & Secondly, notwithstanding that there are many who are no members of the visible Church, & therefore no subjects of Christ's Kingdom, who notwithstanding aperteyne to the L: Election, & are within the compass of the Catholic Church, out of which there is no salvation, Now Mr. Bern. if you have any thing to object against this truth, let us have it I pray you that we may receive instruction & reformation from you: you assume great dexterity in diving into men's arguments, I pray you dive into the bottom of this point & discover the error thereof if you be able: if not, lay your hand upon your mouth, & give glory to God, & confess your ignorance & errors. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the Fourth Section. In this Section Mr, Bern. saith that it is error to hold: that those that are not of a true constituted Church are no subjects of Christ's Kingdom. In his book entitled the Separatists Schism pag. 80. & 81. He affirmeth the same thing in these words: viz: That such as are not of a particular constituted Church (to wit, such a one as theirs is) are no subjects of Christ's Kingdom. Mr. Ainsworth answering Mr. Bernard, pag. 173. useth these words: Neither is this position set down in our words (to my knowledge:) if therefore Mr. Bern. were not a caviller, he would not have reckoned this among our errors Although Mr. Bern. oppugneth this truth, & Mr. Ainfw. forsaketh the defence thereof, yet I still defend it as the undoubted truth of God. First, therefore I will expound the true meaning thereof: then also answer Mr. Bern. cavils & cautions. I say not therefore as, Mr. Bern. ignorantly & vainly & captiously conce●veth, that whosoever is not actually a joined member of a true visible Church not living in communion with that church, is no subject of Christ's Kingdom, but I say thus: they that are not of a true constituted Church are no subjects of Christ's Kingdom: now it is one thing to be in a true church as a member thereof actual walking in presence & communion therewith, another thing to be of a true church. which one may be either as yet actually unjoined or being a joined member actually & yet absent in regard of bodily presence, that one unjoined actually may yet be of a true visible church, I declare by diverse particulars▪ as first one that by violence is detained from a true constituted church yet may be of it in desire, will, affection & purpose though actually unjoined, the Lord accepting the will for the deed when it cannot be performed. Again when as yet there is no true visible church established actually? a man may be of it, in that he would be joined unto it, if it ●ad any real existence, So the Martyrs in Q. mary's days may be said to be of a true visible church, both for that they would have actualy joined to the true constituted church if it had been established, as also for that they in will & purpose desired so to do, although violently they were detained by imprissonment: Further they that are of the true saith which is professed in the true Church may be said to be of that true church: which faith is not a thing invisible, but visible & sensible: as namely a man Separated from all false churches, & professing the true visible faith of the church, holding it unlawful in regard of some corruption which he seethe in the true church, to join thereunto may yet be said to be of the true church. Lastly, if some brethren though but two or three walk together in holy communion, they are a true Church: & although perhaps they have not solemnly entered covenant, yet their communion in holy exercises is a declaration that they have contracted together, though weakly & corruptly yet truly So that these particulars being well weighed may sulficiently inform you of my meaning but Mr. Bern you have in your book quoted this point otherwise then I have propounded & expounded it in my letter, & that in two particulars, viz: 1. in saying, a particular constituted Church: 2. in adding these words: Such a one as theirs is: For there is as much difference betwixt a true constituted Church, & a particular constituted Church, as there is betwixt a man, & this man or that man: the one is species: the other individinum: & it is evident that a man may be of a true constituted Church, & yet not of a particular constistuted Church as may be perceived by the 4. particulars before mentioned. Again in adding these words, viz: such a one as theirs is: after a scoffing uprayding & disdainful manner he seeketh to draw into hatred & abomination the true Church of Christ: but the time will come when the Lord will reward every man according to his works. In the second place let us consider of Mr. Bern. cavils & cautions which are 4. in number. pag. 81. First, he saith the Scripture never setteth forth any of God's people by this mark: say you so Mr. Bern? is not the Scripture plentiful in declaring unto us that the L. addeth daily to the Church, such as should be saved: Act. 2.47. that they that gladly received the word were baptised & added to the Church, & continued therein: Act. 2.14.42 doth not the Apostle teach that there is one faith, one body, one baptism, one Lord, & but one? Eph. 4. And that they that are not of this faith, body, baptism, Lord are without the faith, without the body, that is the Church, without the true baptism, without this true Lord & King jesus Christ? & so are none of God's people visible, none of Christ's Kingdom, none of Christ's body, none of his faith, & baptism? Are not true faith, prayer baptism, the Lords Supper, the true church plain & pregnant do monstrative proper adjuncts of Gods visible people? & how can you with any face of truth or a good conscience of your judgement & knowledge say, that to be of a true visible church, is no note of God's visible people? out you say further that he sinneth which doth not live in a true constituted Church ordinarily, when he can & hath means offered: nay we say further than so: that he sinneth that doth not seek means to live in a true constituted Church, & not only he that useth not means offered so to do: wherefore we say that which you say & more also: but I pray you, what meaneth your ordinarily living in a true constituted church: do you hold that there are two sorts of members & conversers in the true church some ordinary & some occasional or extraordinary? & do you think that to be of a true church, & to live in a true church are one thing? we say that members of true churches are all ordinary & of one kind & consideration: & further we say, that it is one thing to be of a true church or a member of a true church another thing to live in the true church: & a man may be a member of a true church potentialy & actualy, as I have already declared in the 4. former particulars. but all this is nothing to that which I affirm, for I say thus: that he which is not of a true visible Church, is no subject of Chr. Kingdom, that is he is not under the visible dominion & Lordship of Chr. in his church which is his Kingdom: I do not say that he is invisibly none of the L. people: for a man may be one of the L. people in election & grace invisibly, & yet not in the true visible church which is Chr. visible Kingdom: again take an instance to exemplify the matter: all we that are of the separated churches in these country's are of the common wealth of England, & therefore subjects of the King of England our Sovereign Lord on earth, though we are not actually under the execution of his laws, courts, officers, by reason of banishment, & that we may submit to Chr. ordinance, etc. So a true separated Christian is a subject of Chr. visible polity & Kingdom, which is his church, either actually or potentially, although by banishment that is by undeserved communication, by imprissonment, by other occasions he be actualy absented & separated from the presence thereof. wherefore Mr. Bern. I do in this section indite you before the L. & the world, as one that of purpose & so maliciousty perverteth my meaning & slandereth this excellent truth of God: doth not your conscience tell you may you not read it in the copy of my letter that I distingnish betwixt God's people, which are of two sorts, visible subjects of Ch. visible church which is his Kingd. & invisible ones known only to the L. certainly & particularly? further this doctrine of mine you say is contrary to 4, places of Scripture, pa. 81. the first place is Gal. 3.7.9. the Apostles words are these. They which are of saith are the children of Abraham. us. 7. & they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham which scripture proveth my doctrine or rather the L. truth. I say that faith here is oposed to the works of the law, & that faith signifieth a visible faith. For the Apostle james saith, jam. 3. 21-24. Speaking of the same matter, viz: of Abraham's faith that it was made perfect by works: for if Abraham's faith had not been manifested by his works, it had been invisible, & it would not have been discerned by man: & therefore in the same place us. 14. the Ap. speaketh directly of a visible faith this place of the Ap. therefore confirmeth my assertion plainly, that they that are not of a true constituted Church, are no subjects of Chr. Kingd. because they do not by their works show their faith _____ but if they have faith they have it with God, & not with man, who can judge only by the fruits. The second place is, 1. joh. 3.14 where the Apostle speaketh thus: We know we are translated from death to life, because we love the brethren? Who are the brethren, are not they that call God Father? who can call God Father but they that have Christ for their Lord & Mr. for their Elder brother? To whom is Christ Lord & Mr. but to them that are subjects of his Kingdom? So that this place also maketh most evidently for the confirmation of this truth of God which I defend. But you Mr. Bern. dream of am visible faith, of an invisible Kingdom, of an invisible brotherhood or consanguinity: whereas Christ saith directly, that they which do the will of God, are his brethren & of his Fraternity, Marc. 3.35. & what have we to do with things invisible, hidden, & secret, Deut. 29.29. I avouch that you cannot prove to me by any rule of God's word certainly, that those that are not members of a true constituted Church, are subjects of Christ's Kingdom invisible as you I am sure intent it: Further, what is the love of the brethren whereof the Apostle speaketh? is it not a visible love testified in the performance of the visible duties of love: Christ faith joh. 14.25. if ye love me keep my commandments: obedience is the true touchstone of the love of God, & 1. joh. 3.17. whosoever hath this world's good, & seethe his brother need, & chutteth up his compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? So the visible duties of brotherly love are the true touchstone of brotherly love: but the principal visible duties of brotherly love are the duties of admonition, consolation, supportation, patience. 1. Thes. 5.14. Exhortation, edification, us. 11. among them admonition is most excellent. Mat. 18. 15-17. compared with Levit. 19.17. they therefore that altogether omit these visible duties of admonition in the degrees thereof enjoined by Christ & the Apostles, how can they be said to love the brethren? but all they that live out of a true constituted Church wholly omit the visible duties of love to the brethren, seeing they neither know, nor have brethren upon whom they may exercise these duties: Therefore this place of the Apostle is pregnant & invincibly strong against you. The third place is 1. Cor. 1.1. Now what words Mr. Bern, intendeth in this place I can not conjecture except they be these: viz. in the second verse: with all those that call upon the name of the L. jesus Christ in every place: whence it may seem he would gather that there were some subjects of Christ's Kingdom, & not of a constituted Church. I do verily think that seeing these persons that were absent from the Church of Corinthus, did call jesus Christ Lord they did therefore acknowledge him for their Lord & King, & therefore did appertain to his Kingdom which is his visible Church: happily they might be some brethren which did not dwell in Corinth, but in some villages about Corinth: & that this is so the place afordeth evidently: For he wrote both to the Church that was in Corinth, & to the brethren that were in other places which were no doubt of the church of Corinth, El● how did that Epistle in the contents of it concern them, For seeing the Apostle writeth this Epistle to them they had to do with the matters whereof he taxeth the church, for he taxeth them all indifferently, seeing he writeth indifferently unto them all hereupon it followeth that either these persons that were in other places were members of the Church of Corinth: or else if they were no members off that church, the Apostle in vain doth direct his Epistle to them taxing them off the corruptions off that Church: Except it be said that the Apostle doth hereby interest other churches to deal with the Church of Corinth, for their corruptions, & then Mr. Bern. gaineth nothing by it neither, seeing thereby he confesseth that these other brethren were members of other true constituted churches. The third place therefore is nothing to the purpose. The last place is 2. Thes. 3.15. & count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. To pass by what some think of this place, I say unto you Mr. Bern: that it hath not so much as a show for your purpose: The Apostle speaketh in this verse negatively & affirmatively. For he teacheth that they ought not to reckon of an excommunicate, as they account of an enemy, but they are to admonish an excommunicate as they do admonish a brother: Thereby teaching us that an excommunicate is in a middle condition neither an enemy nor a brother, but one that is under the censure of the church, as a means ordained by God for his reformation how will this place prove that an excommunicate is a member of Christ's invisible Kingdom? or if it should prove that some excommunicate are members of Christ's invisible Kingdom, how can you prove that this or that excommunicate is so? do you know the Lords Elect certainly, & particularly, that are out of the church? Or what doth this assertion of yours, & this place of Scripture against my assertion? who say, that such as are not of a true constituted church, are no subjects of Christ's Kingdom: viz: Of the Kingdom which he shall give up into the hands of his Father in the day of his final judgement, In the third place Mr. Bern. asketh what may be said of wicklife, Hus, Luther, Bucer, Melanchthon, the Martyrs, God's people in England, of Lot, job, the people in captivity in Mordecay his time: whereto I answer as I have already done: That job was a member of a true constituted church, & so a subject of Christ's Kingdom, So was Lot, so were the people of the jews in captivity, though violently detained from the Holy land, City & Temple: & therefore Mr. Bern. in these three demands gaineth nothing except the estimation of ignorance & folly be gain: to that of the Martyrs, Hus, Luther, & God's people in England, I say two things: either that in affection & desire they aperteyned to the true visible church being separated from the false church: or that they were of the invisible church, & of the invisible Kingdom which is unknown to man, & the members thereof unknown: disprove you this if you can. In the last place you demand, whither Christ's Kingdom be not Spiritual & invisible also? joh. 18.33. & 10.16. The two places of Scripture quoted by you do not prove that Christ hath an invisible Kingdom, & so invisible subjects known to us, For joh. 18. Christ saith my Kingdom is not of this world, that is to say: it is not begun, continued, & perfected by worldly means: So Christ expoundeth himself, afterward saying: my Kingdom is not from hence: my subjects would fight for me us. 36. meaning that his Kingdom is neither erected nor supported by worldly means as by sword, spear or shield: in respect whereof the Apostle saith Rom. 14.17. The Kingdom of God is not meat nor drink, & 2. Cor. 10.3.4. Though we live in the flesh, yet we do not war after the flesh for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal The second place is joh. 10. Where Christ saith not as you dream very ignorantly & childishly, that he hath an invisible Kingdom, but that he hath sheep of two sorts, some of the visible Church of the Old Testament, which is one fold, some of the visible Church of the New Testament, which is another sold o● the jews & Gentiles: both which sorts of people shall in Christ jesus, the partition wall being taken away, be joined, & made one that so there may be one sheepfold & one shepherd, but what is all this Mr. Bern. to disprove the truth of my position? Again to answer your demand, I say that Chr. Kingdom is Spiritual & invisible aswell as outward & visible: For when we say that Christ's Kingdom is visible & sensible, we do not deny that it is also invisible & Spiritual: neither are these two contraries to be oposed, as excluding one another: For as a man is not only the body which is visible & sensible, but chiefly & principally the soul which is invisible: & as the true Sacraments are not only the outward Elements, but the inward grace also, & that most especially: So the visible Church which consisteth of men, is not only the outward communion, but especially & chiefly the inward & Spiritual fellowship which the Saints have with Christ, & one with another: The Apostle therefore saith both that there is one body & one Spirit: Eph. 4. & that all that are baptised are baptised into one body, & all that communicate are caused to drink into one Spirit, 1. Cor. 12.13. And as the Saints are members of Christ's body, of his flesh, & of his bones, Eph. 5.30. So they that are joined to the Lord are one Spirit: 1. Cor. 6.17. we grant you therefore Mr. Bern. that Christ's Kingdom is Spiritual & visible, but we deny that Christ's Kingdom is only invisible, or only visible: he that doth plead to me that he is a member of Christ's visible Kingdom, & yet cannot show unto me his faith by his works, I say unto him as james saith: What availeth it him? o thou vain man? shall thy saith save the? thy saith is dead: & he that shall plead with the Lord in the day of his judgement, that he hath prophesied in Christ's name, & by his name cast out Devils, & wrought many great works, given his body to be burned in the fire, given all his goods to the poor, hath spoken with the tongues of men & angels, wanting true inward love & faith the Lord will say unto him departed thou worker of iniquity, I know the not: all this outward show was hypocrisy: & thou art but as sounding brass, & a tinkling Cymbal. Therefore as the Apostle saith: glorify God with your body and Spirit, for they are Gods: 1. Cor. 6.20. he that is only an invisible member of Christ's kingdom, is but half a subject of Christ's Kingdom at the utmost, though it be the better half: & he that is only a visible member of Christ's Church, he is unto us truly & fully a subject of Christ's Kingdom, though unto the Lord he is but half, & so the worse half, & so as good as nothing: Let the Lord judge in secret what he pleaseth in mercy, but we must judge in visible that which we see visibly, & therefore to conclude this Parallel: I say he that pleadeth himself to be a true subject of Christ's Kingdom by his invisible faith, yet standing in confusion with the world in the false Church, worship, ministry & Government, let him be what he may be unto the Lord, to me he is either an Antichristian or Famelist: & he that wanting true faith only in secret known to the Lord, is yet a member of a true Church, though I must needs say unto him thou art holy, faithful, & Elect, yet the Lord will call him an Hypocrite, & a worker of iniquity in the day when he will bring unto light every secret thing whither good or evil: Therefore my position standeth firm notwithstanding all your cavils, that he that is not of a true constituted Church is no subject of Christ's Kingdom. The fisth Section. In the next place followeth your eighth position which you account error, viz. That such as are not in your way are to be accounted without after the Apostles meaning, 1. Cor. 5.12. I take it to be most evidently true upon the former grounds, that seeing the true visible Church is Christ's sheepfold, his Kingdom, his house, his household or family, his Temple or Tabernacle, his body: That therefore all those that are not within this sheepfold this Kingdom, house, family, Temple, body, are without: For they are either within or without, but they are not within: go: they are without: Now for the Apostles meaning in that place of the 1. Cor. 5.12. I do also take it to be manifest that he aimeth not only at the gross Idolaters in paganism, but at all manner of unbelievers, that is both jews & Gentiles that did not embrace the saith: now these persons were of 4. sorts, 1. persecuting pagans, 2. civil pagans, 3. persecuting jews, 4. the jews that were Zealous & unreprovable in the law of Moses, (as was Paul) & yet refused Christ: Such as the Apopstle speaketh of Rom. 10. 1.2.3. Who have the Zeal of God, but not according to knowledge who sought to establish their own righteousness & did not submit to the righteousness of God: all these 4. sorts of persons were then without the true visible Church of the Apostolic institution, which is called the Kingdom of God: Now whereas you say we do account all without that are not of our way, I answer two things. First, that all the members of every true Church in the world we do account within. Secondly, that all the members of false Churches we do indeed account without: & therefore we do account your particular Church at worksop to be without: For it is not the true constituted Church of Christ, & therefore it is a false Church, & therefore without according as the holy Ghost testifieth, the court that is without the Temple cast out: Apoc. 11.2. Now you know that in the old Testament all sorts of people good & bad came into the utter court: but now in the new Testament, john by vision was commanded to cast that utter court out & not to measure it, because it is given to the Gentiles who shall tread the Holy City under foot: & now only the true visible Church, which is the Temple of God: 2. Cor. 6.16. consisteth of a holy people which must come out from the unrighteous & unbelievers that are Belial even without the yoke of the L. ordinances: & must be a Separated people: And must have no fellowship nor agreement with unrighteousness, not touch any unclean thing: & such a people the L. promiseth to receive to be his own people & no other: I avouch therefore that seeing you parish Church whereof you are parish priest consisteth of a confused rout even such a people as came into the utter court in the old Testament, that therefore by the commandment of the Lord your parish church must be cast out & not measured. & therefore it is without & so are all such assemblies as yours is: what say you Mr. Bern. now? either justify your Church or forsake it: Let us here what answer you make to this matter: for I guess it toucheth your freehold very nearly: but I proceed. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the fifth Section. In the beginning of this Section Mr. Bern. imputeth to us to hold that such as are not of our way are to be accounted without after the Apostles meaning, 1. Cor. 5.12. In the book called the Sep. Schism, pag. 12. Mr. Bern. saith, This is one ●●ror of ours, that all not in our way are without. And that we do apply against them. 1. Cor. 5.12. Eph. 2.12. Mr. Ainsw. confutation of Mr. Bern. pag. 173. saith: we hold that all not in the way of Christ, are without. In the midst of this fifth Section I expounding what we hold, saying thus: All the members of true Churches we account within: & all the members of false Churches without: & all that are of Christ's visible Church, which is his Sheepfold, Kingdom, Family, Temple, Body, are within, & all that are not within this true visible Church, are without. Hereby it appeareth that in this particular there is no difference betwixt Mr. Ainsw. & me indeed & truth. Mr. Bern. I do wonderfully mervayl at your boldness, that you dare so contrary to all truth, & contrary to my express words in this Section thus impute unto us: I say, and so all of us say: That the members of the true Churches whatsoever, are within: & therefore not only our particular Churches that Separate from the English assemblies, but all other true Churches that separate from the false ways of Antichrist, & walk in the true faith of Christ, are within: all false Churches & the members of them, are without: There is one only faith & truth, Eph. 4.5. as in the Old Testament so in the New the true church ministery, worship, & government is but of one kind: all the Churches or assemblies of the Edomites, Ammonites, Moabites, Ishmaelites, Israelites, Samaritans, & the rest were false churches, hada false ministry, false worship, & false government, & only the jews had the true Church, ministery, Worship, & Government with them: So in the New Testament all Churches or assemblies of men whatsoever professing Christ (as abbeys, Monasteries, Nunneries, Colleges, Cathedrals, Seminaries, Rectories, Parishes, etc.) & not Separated from the Antichristians & worldlings, are false Churches, & so without: only the Separated Churches are the true Churches, & are within: you should have answered this Section of my letter Mr. Bern. before you had printed your book, if you had dealt ingeniously & plainly but seeing you cannot answer (for I take it so because you do not answer, for your book declared that there is no will wanting) let us see what you object, your objections are three. First, the two places of Scripture, 1. Cor. 5.12. Eph. 2.12. you say are meant of such as never made so much as an outward profession of Christ jesus at all: your argument is this: No Scriptures directed against pagans, can truly be applied against Antichristians. These places are directed against pagans: vic: Eph. 2.12. 1. Cor. 5.12. Ergo these places cannot be truly applied against Antichristians. I deny your Major Mr. Bern. & you have not proved it at all: Let the reader judge whither your speeches be oracles that they must be believed, because you utter them: but herein your fraud and evil conscience or palpable ignorance appeareth, that you leave out your Major, which you should have confirmed, & propound only your minor: For that these places are understood of Pagans I deny not, but that they are only to be understood of pag●●●, & that they ●●nnot be understood of Antichristians I deny 〈◊〉: & I prove the ●●ntrary evidently to your conscience, & the conscience of all men after this manner. That which the L. hath taught us to do, we may lawfully do. But the Lord hath taught us to apply against Antichristians places of Scripture directed against pagans, Ergo: places of Scripture directed against pagans' may by us be applied against Antichristians. The Major is evident. The minor is proved by the consideration of these Scriptures, ●evel. 11. ●. & 18.2.7.21. where the holy ghost applieth against the Antichristians, matters & Scriptures spoken literally of Sodom, Egypt, & Babylon, which were all pagans. Ag●●●●, If Antichristians be in condition either equal to or worse then pagans, than by proportion, Scriptures directed against pagans, may be applied against Antichristians. But Antichristians in the Lords account are in a condition equal, you worse than pagans: For so Christ saith, Mat. 11.22, that it shallbe easier for Tyrus & Sidon, & the Sodomites then for Chorazin, Bethsaida & Capernaum, & Ezech. 16. 44-52. judah, Sodom, & Samaria are sisters in sin & punishment, & judah hath justified Sodom. Therefore, Scriptures directed against pagans may be applied by proportion either of equality or superiority against Antichristians. Now for your further instruction in this point Mr. Bern. consider that in the new Testament the phrases, speeches titles, privileges & benefits of the Church of the jews, considered as the true Church are ordinarily applied to the visible Church of Christ in the new Testament: & contrariwise the phrases, speeches, titles, privileges, & judgements pronounced aghast the Gentiles in the old Testament are customabley applied against the false Churches & Antichristians in the new Testament: Hence it is that the true visible Church of the new Testament is called the holy City, Temple, Tabernacle, the new jerusalem & the like, & the false Church is called the Gentiles, Egypt, Sodom, Babylon, etc. the reason whereof is because that the Church of the jews was a type of the Churches of the new Testament, so the assemblies of the Gentiles were types of the false Churches of Antichrist: as you may see through the whole book of the revelation in diverse particulars: which point if you had either understood or attended, you could not thus frivolously have objected to us this one particular, that speeches understood of pagans may not be applied against Antichristians: I pray you what use do you make of the prophecies of the old Testament against Nineveh, Babylon, Elam, Madai, & the rest? What use can you make of the judgements threatened & inflicted upon the Gentiles if not this that Christ & the Apostles make, Mat. 11.22.24. & 12.41.42. 2. Pet. 2. 5-7.15. jude. 7.11. Here I know you will say that you are not Antichristians, & so though these places may be applied against Antichristians, yet not against you: that particular we will see afterward in his proper place: in the mean time thus much we have gained that places of Scripture directed against pagans may as well be applied against Antichristians, as places of Scriptrue spoken to the true Church of the jews may be applied to the true Church of the new Testament. Secondly you object that we cannot prove, laying aside the forge●●s of our own brains, that this scripture phrase without, may be applied unto you as to a people without. Well we will lay aside our own devices: & so let us try what we can do. Arg. 1. Churches that are in condition equal or worse than assemblies of pagans are without. Revel. 11.2. Antichristian Churches are in condition equal or worse than assemblies of pagans. Ergo: Antichristian Churches are without. Again. 2. False Churches are without. Antichristian Churches are false Churches. Ergo: Antichristian Churches are without. Again. 3. Dogs, Enchanters, Whoremongers, Murderers, Idolaters & they that love or make lies are without. Revel. 22.15. Antichristian Churches are assemblies of such persons, Ergo: Antichristian Churches are without. Again. 4. The habitation of Devils, the hold of all foul Spirits, cages of every unclean & hateful bird, are without. Antichristian Churches or Babylon are such. Revel. 18.2. Ergo: Antichristian Churches are without. Again. 5. The utter court which must not be measured by the golden reed, but which is given to the Gentiles that persecute the Holy City, is without. Antichristian Churches are that utter court, Revel. 11.1.2. Ergo: Antichristian Churches are without. Again. 6. The Serpent & his seed or angels are without, Revel. 12.9.10. Gen. 3.15. Antichristian Churches are the Serpent, his seed, & angels. Ergo: Antichristian Churches are without. Now Mr. Bern. I have proved by plain Scripture, that Antichristian assemblies are without: & I know you will not deny it: but you will plead that your Churches are not Antichristian assemblies, & therefore you account that one of our errors pag. 109. viz: our 8. error as you sum them: that position therefore: viz: your Churches are false Churches shallbe proved unto you fully in the Parallels, Censures, Observations aperteyning to the 10. section of this letter, whither I refer the reader desiring him for his information & satisfaction in that particular to read that Section before he proceed any further in reading, lest it should be thought that I deceive & shift of this main point, which is indeed the chief & most principal of our cause & Separation. The third thing that you object is, that God Almighty hath witnessed that you are his people: by giving you his word, & Sacraments, by effectual conversion, by his strange & miraculous delivering you: these things Mr. Ainsworth hath answered most fully, & hath stopped your mouth for ever that you shall never be able to mutter any more in this matter: & therefore I will spare my pains. Nevertheless I advertise you of one thing that we do acknowledge that the Lord hath his pe●ple among you, whom he calleth to come out from among you & to be Separated, & to touch none of your uncleames, 2. Cor. 6.17. Saying unto the faithful that are among you. Go out of Babylon my people, that ye be not partaker of her sins, & that ye receive not of her plagues, Revel. 18.4. & that they may be the better persuaded to come out from you & to be Separated the Lord threateneth a woe, a fearful woe to them that worship the beast or his image, or that receive his mark in their forehead or right hand. Revel. 14.9. & all this the Lord performeth by our testimony. Yet nevertheless we say that your assemblies Ecclesiastical are false Churches that they are Babylon, Epipt, Sodom, where Lot & the Lords people are kept captives: & by reason of the presence of God's people with you, therefore it is that you have those many deliverances which you have, even as the Lord gave Paul the lives of all that Sailed with him in the Ship: Act. 27.24, & whereas you plead you have the word, Sacraments & conversion, I say it is but as the thief hath the true man's purse, & as the false Church of jeroboam had, & as the Samaritans, the Edomitts, Moabites, Ammonites, & Ishmaelites had circumcision & the Sacrifices by usurpation: which by continuance of time were at the last worn out among them: even so you see Mr. Bern. that God's people, the sincerest preaching by the forwardest among you, & the conscionable practice of the truth by the best professors, & the reformation which the reformists so long have sought is almost expired & out of date in the Land: The Prelates, Subscription, Conformity, Declining to Popery, & a Linsy wolsey Religion prevaileth in the Land: & you yourself among the rest have lost or forsaken your sincerity, & are become a Tymeserver, a Neuter, a Temporizer, & than what else but an Hypocrite? & except the Lord be merciful unto his people among you, it is likely to come to pass among you as among the Samaritans, Edomites; Moabites, Ammonites, Ishmaelites, that the Holy things of God which by violence & usurpation you have invaded willbe either overwhelmed with Egyptian darkness, or utterly banished out of the nation: & I would fain know whither even at this present, there be not a thousand parishes in the Land, where there is no more true profession of Christ then among the Antichristian Papists. Finally, to conclude this Parallel: whereas you object that we like it that you call us brethren, but we will not so account you nor admonish you as brethren: I answer that we like it to be counted brethren by you, nor for that we are so unto you: but for that here by we would judge you out of your own mouths: that whereas you account us Brownists, Schismatics, Heretics, Traitors, etc. you may hereby perceive your wicked slanders, that thus entitle us, & yet account us your Brethren: For otherwise as we detest your Church, ministry, worship, & Government as Antichristian: So also we have in abomination your brotherhood, which is Antichristian: also we abjure to be brethren to your Lords the Prelates, to your vice Lords the Archdeacon's, Chancellors, Comistaries, Officials of their Courts, to the damned crew so termed in the Land, to your Church Papists, to the adulterers, Th●eves, Murderers, Witches, Conjurers, Usurers, Atheists, Swaggerers, Drunkards, Blasphemers, & infinite sorts of sinners impenitent in your Churches, yea & take the forwardest preach●rs & professors of the nation we utterly dislike their brotherhood visibly standing members of the assemblies, visibly joined in communion with the forenamed Antichristians & abominable persons in one & the same body: nay we go further we reject the fraternity of those that deny themselves to be ordinary members of your Churches, & ye● are so extraordinarily: that refuse communion with you continually & yet reserve liberty to hear & communicate occasionally: For seeing they hereby are made one with 〈◊〉 antichristian body & wicked members their of, being unseperated from them, we cannot acknowledge ourselves th●●r brothers, l●●● we join light & dar●●es, Christ & Belial, the Temple of God & Idols together: wherefore neither are we your brethren, nor you our brethren visibly: neither do we delight so to be called in these respects, but only as you have heard, that we may be well reported of by them that are without, & that we may heapen coals of fire upon your head, when you acknowledge us brethren, & yet slander us so shamefully & this shall suffice as conc●●ing this Section. The fixth Section. Your ●leventh position followeth to be considered of which is this. That only Saints as Mr. Smyth defineth them by 4. properties are the matter o●ly of a visible Church: This you hold error: I hold it the most certain truth of God's word as these Scriptures do evidently prove: Rom. 6. 4.5.8.11-22. 1. Pet. 3.11. 2. Pet. 3.18. 1. john. 2.19. Apocal. 3.5. compared with Roman. 1.7. Eph. 1.1.4, Revel. 11.2. & 22.14.15. & 18.2. compared with Deut. 14.2.3.11.2. Cor. 6.16. compared with 1. King. 5.12. The 4. properties whereby I describe saints are these though you mention them not i● this your note: 1. To forsake all known sin, 2. to do all the will of God known. 3. to grow in grace. 4. to continue to the end: For the further cleared of this point consider that all the members of the true visible Church of the Apostolic institution are persons who are to be accounted, holy faithful & elect: now if they be elect, I hope they will continue faithful to the end: but you will happily object that many fall away by Apostasy: true & then they are fit to be entertained in your churches as some of ours have been: of them I say as the Apostle john saith, if they had been of us they would have continued with us: Therefore they were none of us: For although they were in the outward communion, yet they were not of the true visible Church, but were only Hypocrites, & as superfluous excrescences in the body no natural true parts of the body: For as in the matural body an eye of glass is not indeed a true part of the body, though it occupy the place or a natural part: So an Hypocrite or one that continueth not to the end possesseth only a room in the visible Church, & is not indeed a true member. You will demand then why we receive Hypocrites among us: whereto I answer we cannot discern an hypocrite, & therefore we are to judge of men according to that we see measuring them by the word of God: That which is concealed from us we are not to pry into: Wherefore our judgement must alter & change as occasions vary: & so the Scripture speaketh of a righteous man forsaking his righteousness, Ezech. 18.24. Whereas in truth the gifts & calling of God are without repentance, Rom. 11.29. Breely therefore to deliver unto you the truth I hold concerning this point: 1. The visible Church consisteth of an outward & inward communion. 2. The inward communion is known only to God: So are the members thereof. 3. The outward visible communion is 〈◊〉 & discerned by men: So are the members thereof. 4. We a●● to judge men for the present to be both of the inward & outward communion if they manifest to us an ourward 〈◊〉 faith. ● 〈◊〉 afterward men Apostate finally than we chandg our mind & say they were ●ever of us for had they been of us they would have continued with us. Now Mr. Bern. I pray you answer us this which we thus justify out of the word if you can: if you cannot yield to the truth & embrace the faith, & we shall rejoice 〈◊〉 you & with you. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the sixth Section. Mr. Bern. in his book entitled the Separatists Schism, pa. 83. hath these words, viz: Their fifth error is, that only Saints: that is a people forsaking all known sin, of which they may be convinced, doing all the known will of God: increasing & abiding ever therein, are the only matter of a visible Church. In this Section Mr. Bern. saith thus, It is an error to teach: That only Saints as Mr. Smyth defineth them by 4▪ properties, are the only matter of a visible Church. Mr. Ainswortht confutation of Mr. Bern. pag. 174. Saith that he denieth this position & disclaimeth the errors which Mr. Bern. gathereth from them referring him to them that hold it: then Mr. Ainsworth showeth what he holdeth; that Saints by calling are the only matter of a true visible Church: yet that many be called, & few chosen. Let the reader consider the exposition that I have given to this position in this section of my letter & then let him give his verdict: the exposition is summarily thus much: viz that seeing the visible Church consisteth of an ontward & inward communion, they that are only of the outward visible communion as hypocrites, are no true members of the visible Church, but only in reputation & account before men. Now I demand of Master Bernard again with what face or good conscience he durst thus ●●●se the World, to publish this position barely without my expo●●●ion, or not to answer that which I brought for the confirmation thereof, but nakedly to set it down & then only to object against it: Herein you bewray to me a mind willing to hide the truth, & to deceive the World, & to draw the Lords truth into detestation: which whither it be not the quality of a false Prophett●, I leave to the judgement of the Godly minded: And whither hereby you do not verify Christ's speech, that you come to rob, kill, & to destroy, & that therefore you are a thief & a robber, joh. 10.1.10. But because you are so importunate with your objections & reasons, let us here what they are, First, you say my description of Saints, is a proper description of the invisible members of Christ jesus, & that it excludeth Hypocrites from being true matter of the visible Church: I answer two things: namely, 1. that an Hypocrite may perform all these 4. properties mentioned in the description of Saints for he may, 1, Forsake all known sin, 2. do all the known will of God, 3. grow in knowledge & grace. 4. continue to the end: & yet be an Hypocrite to the Lord in secret: do you think Mr. Bernard that all that die thus qualified in the estimation of men are indeed saved with the L? I confess to me they are undoubtedly saved, but are they so to the Lord? make a direct answer to this particular, & you shall be compelled to see & confess your 〈◊〉 V●● 2. I answer more properly thus: when I define Saints I must define them not as they are in show for the present, but as they are indeed & truth: Now truth is so either before men or before God: before men that is true sometime which is false before God: & before God that is true sometime which is false before men: That is true before men which is proved by two or three witnesses. Mat. 18.16. He therefore is a Saint before men in truth, that continueth to the end in faith repentance & the fruits thereof: He is a Saint before men in ●hew & appearance for the present, that for the present bringeth forth fruits worthy amendment of life. For a righteous man may forsake his righteousness: Ezech. 18.14. I am not therefore to define a Saint as he is in show for the present, but as he is indeed for ever in the judgement of men: neither do I define a Saint as he is in the Lord's knowledge which is not revealed to men, but as he is revealed to be judged by the word of God: I will declare this by instances for your further information & satisfaction: Stephen: Damas': Tertullus: Stephen continued to the end: Demas embraced the world & fell back from the truth: Tertullus never came to the truth for aught that is revealed: I say, Stephen was a true member of the visible Church who continued to the end: Demas was no Saint nor no true member of the visible Church indeed, but only in show: Tertullus was no Saint nor true member of the visible church so much as in show or appearance what Tertullus was in secret to the Lord I dispute not, nor regard not▪ what Demas was, what Stephen was in the Lords counsel it doth not aperteyne unto us: we must judge according to that we see & know: I say still with the Apostle continuance is a true property of a Saint & member of the visible Church indeed & truth, & of the full & complete communion thereof, 1. joh. 2.19. Your second Objection & reason is that by this my definition of Saints, or the matter of the visible Church so determined, I exclude the members of the visible Church of the old Testament, as Hezechiah, David, Ichosaphat, Moses, etc. Who committed & suffered known sin: yea & the Corinthians, 2. Cor. 12.21. Also the Churches of Asia. Revel. 2, 20.21. Who did not amend, & yet were Saints & true matter of the visible Church. I answer: First to that of the old Testament objected by you, I say your bewray therein great ignorance of the true nature & constitution of the Church of the Old Testament, as also of the ministry, worship, & government thereof, which were all typical & ceremonial: Know you therefore Mr. Bern that there is as much difference betwixt the Old Testament with the ordinances thereof, & the new Testament with the ordinances thereof, as there is betwixt the sign & the thing signified: betwixt the ceremony & the substance: the type & the truth: the shadow & the body: L●●eral & Spiritual: the letter & the Spirit. For in these & the like Phrases doth it please the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures t● discover unto us the differences of these two Testaments, & the ordinances thereof: you cannot plead, because in the Old Testament there were Sacrificing Priests, therefore t●e● m●st b● such in the New Testament, neither can you plead, for that they had one high P●e●●t in the Old Testament, therefore there must be one Pope or Patriarch over the church ●n the N●w Testament: To reason thus were to bring in judaisme; & to disannul the blood of Christ: Therefore if you will reason aright as you ought to do, you must ●rame your reason from the Type to the Truth after this manner. This was a Type figure shadow, ceremony, sign, literal ordinance in the old Testament, therefore we must not have that type; figure, shadow, ceremony, sign, literal ordinance in the new Testament, but we must have the thing typed, figured, shadowed out, signified thereby: as for example: In the old Testament they had a visible Tabernacle, Temple, City, we must have a visible Church, which is indeed the true Tabernacle, Heb. 8.2, & 3. 2-6 The true Temple, 2 Corinth. 6.15. the Holy City, Revel. 21.2.3. In the Old Testament the material Temple was made of material stones: in the New Testament the visible Church is made of living & Spiritual stones, 1. Pet. 2.5. in the old Testament the people that offered sacrifice were a holy people literally, Deut. 14.2.3. in the new Testament the people that worship God must be holy indeed & spiritualy, 1. Pet. 2.5.9. the same may be said or the sacrifices, sacrificers or Priests & of all other ordinances of the old testament: hence it followeth by a necessary consequence that the constitution of the church of the old testament was a ceremonial constitution: the worship of the old testament a ceremonial worship: the ministry a typical ministry: the government a typical government: the people a typical people: the land or country a ceremonial country. & so forth of the rest by proportion This being propounded & confirmed thus as the undoubted truth of God discovereth the vanity of your reason: I say unto you that David, jehosaphat, & the rest of the Godly in the old testament though they did suffer known sin in the land, yet were the true matter of the typical Church being typically or ceremonialy clean: For to the constitution of the typical Church there was not required true holiness, but ceremonial cleanness: & although it was signified unto them of the old testament, & necessarily required of them for their aceptation before God that they should be truly, holy, & sanctified: (for never was any accepted before God without true inward holiness) yet it was not necessarily required of them to the constitution of their Church, for to make them true matter or members of that typical Church, or to fit them to that typical communion which was the proper communion of that typical Church, & of that typical service. Hence it is that as in the old testament a Saint was a typical Saint, so an hypocrite was a typical hypocrite: & a wicked man was a typical wicked man, & therefore excommunication was typical: Nomb. 5. 2-4. & 12.14. Hence also it followeth that lawfully they might have typical communion in typical worship that were typically clean or saints typically though they were wicked indeed: For their real wickedness did not pollute their ceremonial or typical Church, worship, & communion, although it did pollute their own consciences & works Their ceremonial uncleanness did pollute their ceremonial communion: Their moral uncleanness did not so: If their communion had been moral & Spiritual, than their moral uncleanness had defiled their communion: but their communion being only ceremonial & typical, their pollution was only of that kind: therefore you shall never find that in the old testament the L. chargeth them for communion in their typical service with wicked men, howsoever the wicked men themselves are sharply reproved for their wickedness. Besides the nature of their worship being well weighed doth instruct us thus much: For their worship was reconciliation & repentance to acceptation: but our worship is of another nature, viz: Sacrifices of praise & thanksgiving after repentance, reconciliation, & acceptation. For they did worship to repentance, we do worship from repentance: therefore they might & did worship thereby to reconcile themselves to God: we being reconciled to God & accepted in Christ do proceed to offer unto the L. the calves of our lips, the best grace we have: with us men first declare their repentance, & then we receive them into our communion to worship with us: with them first men were received into typical communion, & then they were trained up to repentance & faith in Christ by the typical sacrifices of that typical communion: Their worship began outwardly in the letter, & proceeded inwardly to the Spirit, so did their constitution, ministry & all: our worship beginneth inwardly in the Spirit, & proceedeth outwardly to the letter: Therefore our constitution, ministry, worship, & government, is contrary to theirs: & therefore Mr. Bern. if you had known or observed this, you would not have objected these things of the old Testament for the joining with & suffering of open known sin in the new Testament, & the communion thereof: For how can these things agree, except you will make the New Testament, the Old Testament: & abolish Christ, & set up judaisme again. But I would fain know how you can prove that these holy men did suffer open known sin, or suffering it were not defiled thereby? defiled I say not in their communion which was typical, but in their consent which was Spiritual. But this point I must thus leave waiting for your answer: For I avouch that either the sins which they suffered were not known: or if they were known they were defiled by them: & so not repenting of them, all their worship was defiled to themselves, but yet being ceremonially clean their communion in ceremonial worship was not unclean unto others. & if you do object unto me that their Spiritual communion was polluted unto others: I answer that their moral or Spiritual communion was invisible, & so could not pollute others: & there visible communion was typical & ceremonial, & that only polluted others: For such as was their communion, such was their pollution: There communion visible being typical did only pollute typically our communion visible being moral or Spiritual doth pollute us moraly & Spiritually. Now I do confess unto you, that by their typical Church, ministry, worship, & government, Spiritual things were signified both for them & for us: For them the morality or Spiritual signification was double, viz: 1. that the Lord required that they should be that indeed which was typed unto them, else they could not be accepted. 2. That in them they ought to see as in a glass the glorious condition of the Church, ministery, worship, & government of the new Testament, which were shadowed out by those ceremonies: For us the moral or Spiritual signification is, that except we be correspondent, in our constitution, ministery, worship, & Government, to those types of the old Testament, our constitution, ministery, worship & government, is either jewish, or paganish, & therefore Antichristian: hereupon thus may I reason against you most sound & therein you Mr. Bern. shall have your mouth so stopped as that you shall never be able to reply, or once to mutter against the truth any more except you have a cauterized conscience, viz. If in the Old Testament there visible typical communion was typically polluted by typical & ceremonial uncleanness uncleansed: Then in the New Testament our Spiritual visible communion is really polluted by moral uncleaneness uncleansed, that is, sin unrepented of. But in the old Testament, there visible typical communion was typically polluted by the typical & ceremonial uncleanness uncleansed. Therefore in the new testament our visible Spiritual communion is really polluted by moral uncleanness uncleansed, that is sin unrepented of. The major cannot be denied for it is a just analogy & proportion from the type to the truth, from the shadow to the substance. The minor is evidently confirmed by these places of Scripture, compared together. Nomb. 19.13.20. Hag. 2.14. Act. 21.28.29. Again: If in the old Testament the persons ceremonialy unclean during the time of their uncleanness, we excluded from the tabernacle or the host of Israel: then in the new Testament persons morally unclean by impenitency, during the time of their impenitency, must be excluded from the communion and fellowship of the true visible Church. But in the old Testament persons ceremonialy unclean during the time of their uncleanness were excluded from the tabernacle or host of Israel, as may be seen: Nomb. 5. 2-4 & 12.14.15. 2. Chron. 26.21. Terfor in the New Testament persons morally unclean by impenitency, during the time of their impenitency, must be excluded from the communion of the true visible Church. But I shall have better occasion hereafter, namely in the 8. Section, to manifest this particular, whither I refer the reader. briefly I answer concerning David his suffering of loabs murder: The Kings of judah suffering the brazen Serpent to be worshipped, & the high places: Moses giving the bill of divoice: that either they knew them not to be sin, or if they knew them that they were polluted therewith by consent: but yet their typical communion was not defiled there by if they were ceremonialy clean: they therefore being typically Saints were true matter of the typical Church, & for the Church of Corinth, & the Churches of Asia, I answer that they were not impenitent in sin, & so were Saints: For know you that not sin but impenitency in sin maketh men a false matter of a church: making saints no saints Now how can you prove that either the Corinthians or the Churches of Asia were impenitent after once & twice admonition? I think it passeth your skill to prove that, & therefore I think this second objection of yours to be idle & of no value. Your third objection & reason is that the places of Scripture which we bring declare what men ought to be not what men are: & you say we cannot conclude from the places of Scripture we bring, that because men are commanded so to be, therefore if they be not so they are none of God's people. To this objection & reason I answer: that hereby you confess, that the L. requireth that all the members of the visible Church should be Saints: whence I also conclude that seeing they ought so to be, therefore if they be not so they are otherwise then they ought to be, & so by consequent, if the Church be framed of those that are not Saints, it is framed of another matter then the Scripture appointeth: & I would know if that be not a false matter. Moreover I avouch flatly contradictory unto you that if men be not as God commandeth, they are none of his people: but you are to know that true repentance is the true trial of a Saint, or of one of God's people: & impenitency is an evident declaration that the party therewith affected is none of God's people: Therefore you must observe the difference betwixt the commandments Legal, & Evangelical: The commandments legal require absolute obedience in the highest degrees thereof: The gospel requireth true & unfeigned repentance in the best degree we can afford: I would not have you think that we imagine men should beframed in obedience absolutely according to the exactness of the low, For we are not under the law: no: we only hold that men must in unfeigned desire & endeavour yield obedience to the law, & repent of all that wherein they are defective: & this is the obedience of the gospel which is acceptable, for we are under grace: wherefore Mr. Bern. if you do conceive that we intent the most perfect obedience of the law as a proper adjunct or formal difference of a Saint, you are very gross in your apprehension: if you conceive that we intend that men should be absolutely according to the gospel in faith & repentance, or else to be none of God's people, than your conceit is true & fit, but your objection is frivolous & ridiculous: For than men either are so or none of God's people, & this doth our places of Scripture which we quote, prove, for any thing you yet have manifested to the contrary: when we see you manifest otherwise, you shall receive answer, in the mean time you have discovered yourself to be but a wrangler. Your fourth objection & reason is, for that Saints in Scripture are not so called, 1. either for soundness of knowledge, 2. or internal pure affection, 3. or holy practice of their duty always: But, 1. For their outward calling to Christianity, 2. For their profession of faith, 3. in●espect of their baptism, 4. in regard of the better part, 5. or in respect of the visible signs of God's favour, 6. & God's good pleasure. I answer you thus: you deny three things & affirm six: I do poremptorily deny your three negatives: & I constantly affirm; that sound knowledge, pure affections, & continual obedience are most pregnant and couvertible properties off true Sanctification. Soundness of knowledge is a proper note of life Eternal. john. 17.3. Heb. 8.11. & so a true note of Sanctification. Tit. 1.16. & that which you bring of Christ's Disciples, being ignorant of many things (which we acknowledge) is nothing for your purpose: For you speak not of perfect knowledge, but of sound knowledge, & that Epithet doth not argue the quantity or perfect measure, but the quality or true condition of knowledge which I do avouch by the former grounds to be a true convertible sign of sanctification, & so of a Saint. Pure affection also is another true token of Sanctification. Matt. 5.8. 1. Tim. 1.5, Tit. 1.15. which pure heart or affection is not a heart void of sin, but of hypocrisy, & for that you object of Paul, Rom. 7.18.21. it is nothing to overthrow his pure affection: For though he had sin, yet he know nothing by himself, whereof he had not repent. Continual practice of Holy duties, also is a true sign of a Saint, or a Sanctified person, Psal. 119.101.102.106.112. And although Ecclesiastes saith that there is no man without sin, yet that hindereth not, but that some may continually practise their duties, sith this is the sum of all, that by repentance & faith which are the continual practice of the Saints, a man doth always perform his duty: & the speech of Eclestastes is the sentence of the law, not of the gospel. But herein is your monstrous fraud and abominable dissembling manifested, that under these doubtful terms of sound knowledge pure affection & practise of duty always, you would blear men's eyes that they should not see the truth: What do you think that any of us would be so absurd as to say that perfect knowledge, love, & obedience, without any imperfection or fault are the signs of Sanctification? And yet we say, that sound knowledge, a pure heart, and continual practice of Holy duties are the most infallible tokens of true Saints, and men truly Sanctified: But you are wholly transformed as I perceive into vain jangling. In the next place I do acknowledge that your fix affirmatives are something to the purpose: But nevertheless you have mingled much chaff with the wheat: wherefore briefly in all that which you writ page 85. 86. 87. 88, Concerning this matter I do observe these particulars: Namely, 1. That although an outward calling, profession, and baptism to the faith be part of the signs of Saints: Namely, visible marks outwardly: yet they must be thus qualified, else they are nothing but pictures, or images, resembling & shadowing Sanctification superficialy: For they must be true & inward also: True calling, profession & baptism: & inward calling, profession, & baptism, are the infallible tokens of Sanctification and Saints: The inward must be discerned by the outward, the truth must be judged by the word: He that is so called, so professeth, is so baptized as the word teacheth: that is to say: He that is called and Separated from the World, Antichristianisme, & all false ways known unto him: he that professeth that true faith, taught in the New Testament of Christ, which is but one: he that is baptized into that true faith, after that true manner Christ hath prescribed, I must needs say that he is truly called, truly professeth, is truly baptised, and so he by reason of his outward true calling, true profession of the true faith, and true baptism is discerned & judged to be inwardly called, inwardly to have faith, to be inwardly baptised, & that truly. A company of men thus called, professing, & baptised, are Saints: But if half ot but some of them only be thus, & the rest impenitent & obstinate in sin, it cannot possibly be that they should jointly together be a true Church: being light & darkness, righteousness & impenitency, Christ and Belial: or being joined together, those former called, professing, & baptised, do forsake their righteousness, & partake with the wicked in their sins, and so shall receive of their plagues: How then can that mixed company be called Saints, yea they are as accessary to fearful sin before the Lord, & before men judging according to the rules of God's word, which is the touchstone of all truth: & according whereunto all our judgements must be squared, as by a canon & rule of direction. 2. The better part, visible signs of God's favour and presence, God's good pleasure & acceptation, are excellent respects in the Church: But they are not demonstrative proper adjuncts of saints sufficient to cause a mixed company to be all saints in definition: But you speak of a mixed company one way, & we understand a mixed company another way: You define a mixed company to be of men that are truly Sanctified and men openly wicked & profane: I for my part do abhor to call such a Company Saints: Nay I should rather and that truly call such a mixed Company a false Church, and all of them visibly Antichristians: Neither do I any whit quail that you say all divines say-so: I know there is o●●, namely john the divine, & the rest of the Apostles that teach the contrary & if the divinity of your divines be contrary to the divinity of the Apostles & john that worthy divine I reject it, I abhor it, I wish it cast to the bottomless pit, from whence it came: For know you Mr. Bern. that the worse part sometime giveth denomination to the thing If a peck of wheat be intermingled with an hundredth quartar of chaff, it is not a heap of wheat, but of chaff: if a pint of wine be mingled with a gallon of lees, it is the lees of wine not wine: you know in Logic conclusio sequitur deteriorem partem. Now a company of wicked men having some few Saints known only to the Lord among them (for being mingled with the wicked in Spiritual communion, they cannot be judged Saints by the rule of God's word to man particularly & certainly) as your assemblies of England are, cannot be all called Saints in any colour of truth: For then all the men of England are Saints, seeing they all are joined together into one Ecclesiastical body, which I suppose you cannot nor dare not say the Scripture ever intended so to give them denomination: but you must understand that we acknowledge the visible Church a mixed company in the Lords account & estimation, & in our general comprehension: For so we learn that the visible Church consisteth of wheat & tars, Mat. 13. The Lord he knoweth that the Church hath Hypocrites in it, & we are informed so by the scriptures: there were but twelve Apostles, & one of them was a Devil: but eight persons in the ark, & cursed Cham was one: but four persons in the beginning & Runagate Kain was one: but still we deny that open wicked impenitent persons can be called Saints, because of the communion & presence of some elect ones who are only known unto the Lord, being of one ecclesiastical body with the wicked. Neither can a wicked company be called Holy or Saints truly in respect of the visible signs of God's favour or presence, For then the Papists, Anabaptists, Familists, Arrians, & among them & Exod. 3.5. the ground was called Holy: & Mat. 4.5. jerusalem is called the Holy city, typically not truly, as I have expounded unto you before in respect whereof also the Lord is said to see no iniquity in jacob, nor transgression in Israel, Nomb. 23. 21-seing that people at that present was typically Holy & so typically without imputation of iniquity in respect of their typical communion. And for the Parable, Mat. 13. of the wheat & tars I do constantly avouch that though you & all divines with you do expound it of open wicked impenitent persons, & Saints, supposed in communion together, yet the parable is wrested from the true purpose of Christ, who doth not intend to teach that, for than he should teach contrary to himself, who by the parable of the Leaven declareth that one wicked person defileth the whole lump, Mat. 13.33 compared with 1. Cor. 5.6 Exod. 12.18, And whereas in the conclusion of this point, pag. 88 you would prove that, because the ancient Church of the Separation have (as you say) wicked men among them: therefore the parable Mat. 13. is truly expounded in that sense of a mixture of good & bad: I say for that point as the parents of the blind man said, they are ancient enough, let them answer for themselves. And thus have I ended this parallel with you Mr. Bern. & concerning Mr. Ainsworth who renounceth this Holy truth of the Lords, which I have thus cleared, I say hereby he renounceth the saith in this particular, & renounceth the Apostles testimony, who saith, they went out from us, they were not of us, for had they been of us, they would have continued with us, 1. joh. 2.19. The seventh Section. Now followeth you fifth position which you also persuade yourself to be an error, and which being well expounded I account the undoubted truth, viz. 5. That the power of binding & losing is given to the whole multitude, & not to the principal members thereof: These are your words. I hold & maintain out of the word that a company of faithful people Separated from all uncleaneness & joined together by a covenant of the L. are a true Church: yea though they be but two or three: So Adam & Hevah were a Church: so Lot, his wife, & his daughters were a Church: So Noah & his family in the Ark were a church: So the twelve men at Ephesus were a Church, Act. 19.7. So in Q. Mary's days the Martyrs separated were a church, if but two or three of them lived together: That this is a truth, I prove unto you thus. 2. Cor. 6. 16-18. with whom God maketh his covenant to be their God, & whom he receiveth to be his people, they are a Temple, that is a Church unto him, us. 16. But two or three faithful people coming forth from the unbelievers, & being Separated, & touching no uneleane thing, are God's people, & God with them maketh his covenant, & they are his sons & daughters, & he is their Father, us. 16.17.18. Therefore two or three faithful people are the Temple and Church of God. The Premises are evidently delivered in the Scripture: therefore the conclusion followeth necessarily. Mat. 18.20. where two or three are gathered together into my name, there am I in the mids of them. In the mids of whomsoever Christ doth dwell & walk, they are a true Church of Christ: Even his Temple, Tabernacle, & habitation: as these Scriptures teach being compared together, Mat. 28.20. 2. Cor. 6.16. Levit. 26.11.12. But among two or three gathered together by love, & into the name of Christ by faith, Christ is present to dwell & walk, Mat. 18.20. 2. Cor. 6.16. compared together. therefore two or three faithful people are the Temple & Church of God. I could allege other Scriptures: but two or three witnesses are sufficient. Remember for this point that the covenant made with Adam, Abaham, Isaac, jacob, & all the faithful, is made with any faithful people in the world, as if two or three faithful people should aise up in the dominions of the Turk, or Pope, or jews, or Pagans, & join together to walk in the faith, the Lord maketh his covenant with them, he is their God, they are his people, they are his Temple, he walketh there, he is their Father, they are his sons & daughters, Christ is their King, they are his Kingdom, even a Kingdom of Priests, &c: & therefore wheresoever in the Scripture the covenant is made with any, it is to be understood as made with Abraham's children according to the faith, & therefore with two or three faithful people any were in the world. This being premised as the ground of our whole cause, & we having departed from all the profane of the Land, & having separated & touching no unclean thing, 2. cor. 6, 17 We are God's people, his temple, his Church: he dwelleth & walketh among us, & he hath given to us, & made with us his covenant, Heb. 8.10. & although we were but ●ew in number, yet the Lord chose us to be his. We being now the Church of God, we have the power of the L. jesus Christ given unto us: For we have himself out own by title & possession, & use, & that by virtue of the covenant God made with us: for so God is our God & our Father, only in Chr. & through him: & all the promises of God in Christ are yea & Amen: Christ therefore is ours: Christ he is our King & our Priest, & we are his Kingdom: & we have his power, that this is so I prove unto you by these Scriptures. Marc. 13.34. Christ ascending up into Heaven (for that is his going into a far country as may be perceived by Luk. 19.12. with Mat. 28.18. & Eph. 4.8.) gave authority to his servants leaving his house that is his Church according to his bodily presence: now what authority is this that Christ gave unto his servants? that is evident by other places of scriptures, 1. Cor. 5. the power of our Lord jesus Christ which the Corinth's had that is the power of admonition & excommunication, the power of binding & losing, a power to administer Christ's Kingdom, & all the ordinances thereof. Mat. 16.19. The power of binding & losing is given to Peter. joh. 20.23. The power of binding & losing is given to all the Apostles. Marc. 13.34. The power of Christ it given to his Servants. 1. Cor. 5.4 The power of Christ is in the hands of the Corinth's. Now let us make collections & gather instructions out of these places, & the truth will most evidently appear. The Pope saith out of the 16. of Matthew, that the power of binding & losing is given to Peter & his successors the pope's of Rome & that all the Bbs. & Priests in the world, & the whole Church universal receiveth binding & losing from him. Nay say the English Prelates out of the 20. of john Christ gave the power of binding & losing to all the Apostles & their successors the Lord Bbs. of England, & that all the Priests, & people in the Land, receive binding & losing from them in their several dioceses. Nay say the Presbyterians of England out of Mat. 18.17. The power of binding & losing is given to the Edership, & the people they are bound or loosed by the Presbytery: For by the Church they understand the Presbytery. Nay say we, the power of binding & losing is given to the body of the Church, even to two or three faithful people joined together in covenant, & this we prove evidently in this manner. Unto whom the covenant is given, unto them the power of binding & losing is given. The covenant is given to the body of the Church, that is to two or three faithful ones: For God is their God, & they are his people. Therefore the power of binding & losing is given to them. Again. Unto whom Christ is given for King, unto them the power of Christ the King is given, as being his deputies & lieutenants. But Christ is given for King unto the body of the Church, even to two or three faithful people, who are his Kingdom, & house, & city. Therefore unto them is given his power, that is his power to bind & lose. Finally. Unto whom the covenant & Christ is given, unto them all the promises are given, for all the promises are contained in the covenant, & in Christ, as these places prove, 2. Cor. 1.20. Psal. 133.3. Act. 2.39. Gal. 3.14.15.16. & the power of binding & losing is one of the promises, & is a part & parcel of the covenant, Mat. 16.19. joh. 20.23. Mat. 18. 15-20. But the covenant & Christ & all the promises, are given to the body of the church even to two or three faithful ones. Therefore the power of binding & losing is given to them also. But there are certain objections which must be answered in number three. Ob. 1. One is that Christ speaketh only to Peter & to his Apostles, & giveth the power only to them therefore, Mat. 16.19. john. 20.23. Mat. 18.17. For answer thus much. The place Mat. 16. although it be directed to Peter personally, yet it is intended unto all the Disciples of Christ: For unto them is the power given, that have the saith and made the confession there mentioned: But the faith & confession of faith is of all the Disciples, & spoken by Peter in behalf of them all: & therefore the power is by promise given to all, The place joh. 20.23. importeth plainly that Mary Magdalene, & diverse other of the Disciples were present when Christ spoke unto them for they were assembled together in a house, the door being shut, & it was the L. day: & not the Apostles only, but the rest of the Disciples were assembled in all likelihood for the Sanctification of the L. day: yea further Thomas was absent, & so the promise of binding & losing could not be made to him at that present, & afterward it was not made to him, & so by consequent that one of the Ap. had not the power given him by their reason which plead it to be given to the Apost. only. The place Mat. 18.17. doth not prove that this power was given to the Presbytery, for that place importeth that it was given to the Church, now the Eldership is not the Church, but a part of the Church, & it must be proved that the word Church doth signify the Eldership (or else this place will help nothing), as I am sure cannot be showed out of the word: besides the circumstances of the place teach that Christ intendeth the power of binding & losing to be given to every brother, for so he saith, if thy brother sin: & let him be unto the: & take two or three witnesses: & where two or three, etc. I am in the midst of them. Finally, It cannot be denied but admonition aperteyneth to every brother, & why should not excommunication: For their is power to bind & lose in two or three witnesses toward a brother, & why not power to bind & lose in the body of the Church, if the whole Church be but two or three: or some small number. Now for the utter over throwing of this conceit of the power given to the Presbytery only, consider that the twelve were not yet Apostles, only they were nominated to be Apostles: they were invested in their office at the descending of the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost: which I prove unto you evidently. Eph. 4.8.11, when Christ ascended he gave gifts unto men, viz: the gifts of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors & Teachers: For Christ received his Kingdom when he ascended. Luk. 19.12. For Christ obtained a Kingdom by his death, & he received his Kingdom, when he went into that fane country: & Christ by his sufferings entered into his glory: So that Christ's Kingdom in regard of the outward regiment & ordinances thereof began at the day of Pentecost, when the Apostles were endued with power from on high Luk. 24.49. Act, 1.8. & it shall end at the day of judgement, 1. Cor. 15.24.25. Seeing therefore that they were not yet Apostles, but only Disciples, the power given to them was given to them as Disciples, not as Apostles: & therefore all Christ's Disciples may justly in all ages challendg that power of binding & losing: For a conclusion therefore in a word, the commandment of binding and losing is given to every brother, go the promise & power of binding & losing is given to them also: as the foresaid places do evince. & as the charter of a corporation is from the King & all the offices have power from the corporation, so the Church hath power from Christ, & the Eldership from the church & as the body hath power from the head, & the parts of the body have their power from the body: So the church which is Christ's body; hath power from Christ, & the Eldership a part of the body hath power from the body. Ob. 2. A second objection is this that if the power of binding & losing be given to the body of the Church, than power of preaching & administering the seals of the covenant: truth: we confess it: & the church being a corporation committeth power to administer to such officers as Christ hath appointed to his church, viz: to the Elders or Bishops: still reserving power to correct her officers by the same power of binding & losing in admonition & excommunication, the benefit whereof doth as well pertain to the Elders as other of the brethren, except it be said the Elders are to be exempted from censures, & so to want those means of Salvation which the brethren have, which is a pitiful condition, & alamentable privilege. Ob. 3. A third ebjection is that the benefit of binding & losing, of the word & seals of the covenant is given to the church, & all the members, but not the power of them: whereto thus much may be answered, viz: that the Church, viz: two or three faithful ones have as is said the covenant, Christ, the promises not only in use, but in title & possession: & the faithful have as good power & title or interest to the covenant, Christ, & the promises, as a freholder hath to his lands & possessions. Esa 9.6. Unto us a son is given: the church is the spouse of Christ, & so hath power to Christ the covenant & promises: the Church is the body of Christ, the body hath a real possession, title, & power to the head & all the helps thereof: For the faithful are flesh & bones of Christ, Eph. 5.30. these things are manifest to them that will understand: & if any man be ignorant let him be ignorant. But it may be Mr. Bern. you will say that power to bind & lose are no properties of the Church, but only privileges: For shame say not so: Surely this plea argueth that either you got little Logic in the university, or that you have forgot it, or if you remember it you either carelessly neglect it, or wilfully pervert the use of it to seduce your followers: I pray you tell me in good sooth what difference is there betwixt a privilege & a property: Is not a privilege according to the notation of the word privata lex: a private law wherein one person or state is interessed. The King hath certain previledges or prerogatives as to pardon condemned persons, to dispense with his law, a negative voice in parliament etc. I would feign know of you, whither these be not properties, such as the Kings & Queens of the nation only have title to & no other: but consider well with yourself what relation there is betwixt a privilege & the person that is interressed in the privilege: Is it not the relation of the subject & the adjunct? A privilege therefore is an adjunct to the privileged person: Now all adjuncts are either proper or common adjuncts: but a privilege is not a common adjunct, as I am sure you will confess, or else you want reason: therefore it is a proper adjunct: It it be a proper adjunct it is a property, & so your distinction is senseless & unscholler like you may aswell say that pepper is hot in working & cold in operation, as to say that the true Church may be without her privileges, but not without her properties: Therefore I do here before the L. attach you as a deceaver of the people in teaching thus contrary to all learning & true use of reason, that the power of the Lord jesus Christ given to the church, one part whereof consisteth in binding & losing is only a privilege & not a property of the true Church: & that the true Church may want it: It is as impossible for the true Church to want Christ's power, as for a man to want reason: Mr. Ber. answer now or else yield to the truth you cannot for shame deny the one of them. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the seventh Section. In this Section I writ & prove, that the power of binding & losing is given to the whole multitude, & not to the principal members thereof. Mr. Bern. in his book entitled the Sep. Schism, pa. 88 calleth it the A.B.C. of Brownisme to hold: That the power of Christ that is, authority to Preach, to administer the Sacraments, & to exercise the censures of the Church, belongeth to the whole Church, yea to every one of them, & not the principal members thereof. Mr. Ains. answering Mr. Berinthia, pa. 174. Saith that Mr. Ber. may put this opinion, if he please in the Criss-crosse-rew of Bernardisme, he himself being the first that ever he heard to utter such a position: & afterward pa. 175. 176. 177. 178. Expoundeth what that ancient Church whereof of he is teacher holdeth concerning it. Well: Let us handle these things largely, & to full satisfaction: & herein I profess before the Lord, & before the whole world, that if I do not prove evidently my assertion that the power of binding & losing is given to the whole multitude, & not to the principal members thereof. I will acknowledge the Churches of England, yea the Churches of Rome yea & the Greek Churches also to have a true ministry, & to be true churches of Christ For if the ministery, & the holy things with the ministery, come by succession from the Apostles hands, through the churches of Rome & the Grecians, & that there are no ministers, but such as are made by them & from them successively, our whole cause of Separation lieth in the dust & we must disclaim our Schism which we have made, & our heresies which we hold: but if it be proved that the true ministery cometh not by succession from the churches of Rome or the Grecians, & that the holy things are not given to the ministry by succession, but are given first to the body of the church, the faithful, yea though they be but two or three, & that both the ministery and all the power that the ministery hath doth ●●ow from the Fountain Christ jesus, through the body of the Church 〈◊〉 the Presbytery, then is your Church & ministery false, so are the Churches of the East & West much more: & then we & those Churches only which raise up their ministery from the Election, aprobation, & ordination of a faithful people, are the true Church of Christ having the true ministery of Christ, & you with the rest of God's people in Babylon must separate & join together, & walk in the Lords ordinances as we & other true Churches do, or else woe be unto you from the Lord: Therefore in this particular I would supplicate the King's Majesty my Soveragne Lord on earth, the Lords of the Parliament, The Gentlemen that sustain the person of the commons in the neither house, all the learned men of the Land, to consider & to search out this point: For it being thoroughly cleared may breed peace & infinite good to the whole nation: whereas it being suppressed, choked, darkened, & neglected draweth with it all the contentions and controversies amongst them that profess Christ in the whole earth: For my part Mr. Ber. I will endeavour according to my poor ability to discover what I have conceived, and do undoubtedly believe from the Scriptures, and do make the beginning of my inquisition after this manner which I desire the gentle reader to weigh & consider of with his best attention. Christ's visible church which is his Kingdom, hath in it a spiritual power and jurisdiction by the confession of all that profess jesus Christ: which power is of two sorts: 1. The power of Christ himself, who is the Lord & King of his Church. Mat. 28.18 and he is the Fountain of power, being the head of the Church which is his body, Eph. 1.22.23. For as the head is the Fountain of life, sense, motion, & power to the whole body, & as the Mr. of the house is the original of all economical power: So is Christ the original of all spiritual life, sense, motion, & power to the Church which is his body & family: This is evident: & in regard of this power which is inherent in Christ, the church which is Christ's Kingdom may truly be termed a Monarchy, Mat. 23. 8-11. Ephes. 4.5, jam. 4.12. This power which Christ hath in himself cannot pass from himself to any other: For as his priesthood is eternal, & not passing from him to another, Heb. 7.24. so may it as truly be said of his other offices, & particularly of his Kingdom & Monarchical power: Nevertheless 2. The Lord jesus hath ordained & appointed a certain order to be observed in his absence in the true visible Church, & hath delegated a certain power & authority to his Servants & subjects for the preserving of that order, & for the execution of those ordinances: This delegated power & authority is mentioned Marc. 13.34 1. Cor. 5.4. This delegated power is avouched by the Papists to be in the Pope, by the English Prelates to be in the Lord Bbs. & Archdeacon's: By the Presbyterians to be in the Eldership: by the brethren of the Separation to be in the body of the Church primarily and fundamentally: For if the Pope, Prelates, Presbytery, or Body of the Church do say that the power which is in Christ jesus is in them, they do blaspheme most fear fully robbing Christ of his honour & Regal power, & make themselves even Christ himself: The Pope therefore is not Antichrist for that he usurpeth that regal power which is proper to Christ: neither are the Bbs. of England Antichrist for usurping that proper kingly power which is only in Christ: nor the Presbytery Antichristian for challendging the power Monarchical of Christ: but they are all Antichristian for usurping the delegated power of Christ which he hath originally given to the body of his Church which is his mystical body. This delegated & Ministerial power which the Pope, Bbs. & Presbytery challendg, they say cometh to them by succession from Christ: The Pope he saith Christ hath given this ministerial power to Peter only & his successors the pope's of Rome: The Bbs. say Christ hath given this delegated power to all the Apostles, & the Apostles have given it to the Bbs. their successors. The presbyterians say that Christ hath given this ministerial power to the presbytery, or Eldership, & they convey it successively to the elders succeeding to the worlds end in the Church: All these three opinions are equally Antichristian, for they all of them establish succession which is jewish, & so Antichristian. For in the old Testament the priesthood was conveyed by successivon Heer therefore I will prove unto you by undeniable arguments, that the power of Christ is not given either to the pope, Bbs, or presbytery, but primarily it is given to the body of the Church. First Argument. If Christ's ministerial power be given by succession to the pope, Bbs, or presbytery primarily, than the ministery is before the Church: that there must needs be a ministry before there be any power of Christ, this consequent is infallible. But the ministery is not before the Church, but after the Church: For it ariseth out off the Church, as a part off those Holy things which God hath given to his Church. Therefore Christ's ministerial power is not given to the pope, Bbs. or presbytery primarily: but to the body of the Church. They that affirm the ministry to be before the Church must needs hold that a minister is no relative to a Church, but that a man may be a minister, & have no flock to attend on, yea that there may be & is a ministry when & where there is no Church: or that the charges of other men are his chardg: or that the world is his charged: they must also maintain that all grace floweth from the ministery to the Church: that the ministery is a more excellent ordinance than the Church: that the Church hath no power to make ministers, but that the ministers have power to make both ministers & churches: & that ministers are properly by their office Apostles over the whole world for the converting of men, & planting of Churches: & the like absurdities. Second Argument. If Christ's ministerial power cometh by succession to the pope, Bbs. & presbytery: then the ministry of Rome is a true ministery, and all they that are made ministers by the pope and his clergy, are true ministers: Then it is lawful to join with the true ministery of Rome, and then whosoever are ordained and not by a precedent ministry are falsely ordained, and so are false ministers. But the ministery of Rome is no true ministry, and they that are ordained by the pope and his clergy are no true, but false ministers: and it is utterly unlawful to join with the ministery of Rome by the confession of all the Protestants, and ministers may be ordained truly without ministers by the confession of the sincerest reformists. therefore Christ's ministerial power cometh not by succession to the Pope, Bbs. & Presbytery primarily: but to the body of the Church. Third Argument. If Christ's ministerial power cometh by succession to the pope, Bbs. & presbytery: then the Lord hath absolutely bound men to sin, seeing that we must needs join to the sins off the Ministers, otherwise men cannot possibly have & enjoy the holy things of God: For it is the ordinance of God, that we should use the holy things: & this assertion doth avouch that we must have them from the ministry: & therefore let their sins be what they will, we must have them from their hands, & so must join to them in all their sins. But the L. hath not bound us necessarily to join to other men's sins, seeing he hath commanded us to Separate from them, & this were to lay our sins upon the Lord most blasphemously. Therefore Christ's ministerial power cometh not by succession to the pope, Bbs. or presbytery primarily: but to the body of the Church. The fourth Argument. If Christ's ministerial power cometh by succession to the pope, Bbs. or presbytery: then the Lord hath made the Ministers Lords over the Church, so that the Church can not have or enjoy any of the holy things, any of the L. ordinances, except they will agree or consent them, unto for their Holy things are in their power. But the L. hath not made the Ministers Lords over his Church which is his inheritance but they may have & enjoy his own ordinances even all the Holy things contrary to the will of wicked ministers. Therefore Christ's ministerial power cometh not by succession to the pope, Bbs. or presbytery primarily, but to the body of the Church. The fifth Argument. If Christ's Ministerial power cometh to the pope, Bbs. or presbytery, than the presbytery may excommunicate the whole Church: Then the Bbs. may excommunicate there whole dioceses or provinces, than the pope may excommunicate the whole church universal on earth. But the L. Bbs. of England say the Pope cannot excommunicate England: The Reformists hold that the Prelates cannot excommunicate their dioceses, & by consequent & just proportion the Presbytery cannot excommunicate that particular Church whereof they are Presbyters. Therefore Christ's ministerial power cometh not by succession to the Pope, Bbs. or Presbytery primarily, but is given to the body of the Church. The sixth Argument. If Christ's ministerial power cometh by succession to the Pope, Bbs. or Presbytery: Then the office of the Deacons & widows are lost sith succession: in them is interrupted & lost: for as in the old testament a Priest came of a Priest, a Levite of a Levite, so an Elder maketh an Elder, a Deacon ordaineth a Deacon, a widow must ordain a widow. But the office of the Deacon & widow is not lost, for none of God's ordinances are perished, but may be had, or else God's truth & mercy to his Church faileth, who hath said that he willbe with his Church to the end of the world. Therefore Christ's ministerial power cometh not by succession to the Pope, Bbs. or Presbytery primarily, but is given to the body of the Church. The seventh Argument. That doctrine which destroyeth itself is false. The doctrine of succession, viz: that Christ's ministerial power cometh by succession to the pope, Bbs. or Presbytery, destroyeth itself. Therefore the doctrine of succession is a false doctrine: The minor I manifest thus: If the papists say truly that all ecclesiastical power floweth from Christ to the Clergy though the pope, then why doth the college of Cardinals make a pope by Election? & why doth not one pope make another pope before his death? Therefore Election overthroweth the succession of the pope's office: For the pope cannot both give Christ's Ministerial power to the Clergy of Rome, & take the same ministerial power from the Cardinals by Election: but when the pope is dead, then is Christ's ministerial power dead also in the pope's person: & thus doth succession overthrow itself in the pope: & by consequent in the rest: For Christ's ministerial power being once interrupted in the pope, can never be recoured again, but is utterly lost: & so the Church is abolished: For if the presbytery be lost the Church is lost: if the bbs. be lost, the presbytery is lost: if the pope be lost the bbs. be lost: if the pope be dead the pope is lost: if the pope be lost, Christ's ministerial power is lost: for if it be said that the pope hath his power by Election from the Cardinals than succession is destroyed: & so you may see evidently that succession destroyeth itself, seeing Election must needs be interposed: Therefore indeed there is no true succession, but that of the old Testament, viz: by descent & genealogy: & this succession which is pleaded for by ordination of precedent presbytery, bbs. pope is man's invention & destroyeth itself, & therefore is a mere Antichristian devise. But here certain objections must be answered for the further manifestation of the matter of succession, & for sactisfaction therein. The first Objection. Although the Ministerial power of Christ be not given to the pope, & so perisheth not with him, yet it is given to the bbs, who are the Successors of the Apostles in that Ministerial power, and in the dispensation of it to the ministery and Church: therefore that there is a certain and undoubted Succession of bbs. from the Apostles days hitherto, one ordaining another successively, therefore though succession be interrupted in the Pope whose ministerial heads hip we renounce, yet it is continued in the Bbs. who are the Apostles successors in dispensing this ministerial pow●e to the ministery & Churches. Answer to the first Objection. This objection dependeth upon an uncertanity, viz: That there hath been a succession of Bbs. one ordaining another successively from Peter, Paul, james, through the Church of Rome, & the Greeks': & therefore I answer, that except they can show the court rowles (that I may so speak) of the undoubted successive ordination from Peter, Paul. james, etc. I shall say unto all the Bbs. of England, as Nechemjah said to the Priests, that could not show their succession from Aaron by Genealogy. Nehem. 7: 64.65. Because their successive ordination is not found, they shall be put from their Bishoprics, & they shall not administer in the Bbs. office till their arise up one as with urim & Thummim to divine unto us the truth of this matter: For we will not believe the records of the Church of Rome, who also are defective in this particular, for though they have the succession of Popes, yet not of other Bbs. Further the vanity of this objection appeareth in this, that hereby they are urged for the justifying of this Antichristian devise of succession by ordination to go to the throne of Antichrist, the popedom, to fetch their ministery thence, as if the true ministery off Christ could be in the false Church of Antichrist: hereby also they do acknowledge Rome to be the true Church, their Sacrificing priesthood a true ministery, order a true Sacrament, the Eucharist a true propitiatory Sacrifice for the quick & dead, prayers for the dead, & a thousand such abominations, which are necessary dependences thereupon: They must also acknowledge themselves Schismatics from the Church of Rome, & are never able to answer the popish books, & the petitions of the Papists to the King, who object these and the like things against them. The Second Objection. Although the pope & Bbs have not Christ's ministerial power given to them by succession, yet the presbytery may have that power by delegation from Christ, when their shall arise a company of true faithful teachers, who standing out against the popedom, & prelacy, & all the abominations thereof: also renouncing all the corruptions of their ordination, & refining both the doctrine of faith, & the true calling of ministers, from the dross of Antichristianisme, do yet notwithstanding retain the truth which they in the seat of Antichrist had, as in the faith, so in the ministry: For Antichrist had not ●●●erly abolished, but only corrupted the Lords ordinances. Answer to the second Objection. This objection dependeth upon the former grounds, namely, that the Church of Rome is a true Church though corrupt, having a true ministery though corrupt, etc. of the rest: For otherwise how can they plead their ministry to be true from the Bbs. except they do acknowledge also the Bbs Ministry to be true received from the Popedom: & the popish ministery to be true, for otherwise they must maintain that a true ministery cometh from a false ministery, which is as impossible as to bring light out of darkness: So that this Objection is also answered in the former already, & needeth no further answer: yet nevertheless I say unto the point that all the refining of the world can not bring a true ministry out of a Sacrificing priesthood: Or a true presbytery out of a false Antichristian prelacy: For as it was impossible for the priests of the Old Testament to ordain true Ministers of the New Testament: So much more is it impossible for the false popish Sacrificing priesthood, to ordain true ministers of Christ's true Church: For the Sacrificing priesthood of Aaron's Family was the Lord's ordinance sometime, but the popish Sacrificing priesthood in the main substantial parts thereof, is not only man's device, but infinitely impious & blasphemously derogating from the honour & dignity of Christ's Sacrifice & priesthood which is aparabatoes intransitive, Heb. 7.24. & according to the order of Melchisedech: & seeing the popish Sacrificing priesthood is in the very essence of it false: how can the English prelacy, priesthood, & Deaconry, which issued from that Romish priesthood, be any other but a sacrificing priesthood? & although the English prelate's have cast away that essential Sacrificing property (or form rather) of the Romish priesthood, & have reduced it to a better temper, yet that will not serve the turn: for all that they have in their prelacy, priesthood, & Deaconry, they had from Rome or else where: If from Rome then their prelacy, priesthood, & Deaconry is absolutely Romish & no other: if elsewhere then their Succession is gone: If both from Rome & else where let them declare that Riddle unto us. The third Objection. The presbyters may have ordination or imposition of hands from the Romish priesthood, & yet not their office: For that may come from heaven, or by some extraordinary means, even as the Lord raised up some men extraordinarily in these last times to restore the truth of doctrine, & to reduce things to the Apostolic primitive institution as amongst others, Hus, Luther, & the rest. Answer to the third Objection. It is strange that a man shall have imposition of hands from one, & his office from another: Besides it is contrary to the nature of Succession, wherein the party that ordaineth giveth the office & ministerial power to him that is ordained: for that it the thing that is pleaded, that Christ's ministerial power cometh by Succession through ordination of precedent presbyters: It contradicteth their own ground therefore to say, that imposition of hands is from a popish priest, and the true office from some other means: But let us inquire what that other means may be: To say that Christ's Ministerial power is from heaven, is not denied, but the question is: What is the instrument or means which Christ hath appointed to convey that Ministerial power unto man kind? And who are they that first receive it from Christ's hand out of heaven: Or what is proton dektikon the first subject of this ministerial power: We say the Church or two or three faithful people Separated from the world & joined together in a true covenant, have both Christ, the covenant, & promises, & the ministerial power of Christ given to them, & that they are the body that receive from Christ's hand out of heaven, or rather from Christ their head this ministerial power: you say: not so: but this ministerial power cometh by succession from the ministry which is the first subject of this power, & that all this power is derived from man to man, from the Apostles hands through all the Priests hands of Rome, & the Prelate's hands of England to you Mr. Bern. & your line & pedigree of priesthood is lineally descended from Peter or Paul, etc. to you through so many generations of popish priests, as have succeeded from Peter's person to your person: Even as Annas & Cayaphas descended lineally from Aaron: only this is the difference, that the succession of Annas & Cayaphas was by genealogy or generation, yours is by succession of ordination or imposition of hands: & therefore because you see that you fall under this foul absurdity, that your priesthood must be of necessity of the same kind that the popish priesthood is, you have invented a new trick to say that it cometh from heaven extraordinarily with Hus & Luther, and the rest of those glorious witnesses which the Lord in these last times raised up to the destruction of the man of sin: Which if it be so: Then say I: show your succession from Luther, Hus, Prage, etc. Or else Nechemiah will put you from your priesthood. The fourth Objection. But every King in his dominions is appointed by Christ to be a head ministerial to the Church, & all the Priests of that country do receive their ministerial power from the King by the ordination of the Bbs. unto whom the King hath committed the dispensation of that power: so that the King being the Lords Lieutenant in his own dominions, hath this ministerial power from Christ, the Bbs. from the King, the Priests from the Bbs. the Church from the Priests. Answer to the fourth Objection. If the King of every country hath Christ's ministerial power given to him immediately from heaven, & that the Clergy of that nation have Christ's ministerial power from the King, than these consequents follow: which are intolerable absurdities. 1. The King of every country is a person civil & Ecclesiastical, having all civil & ecclesiastical power & that immediately from Christ. 2. The King of every country can preach, administer the Sacraments, exercise Spiritual jurisdiction, excommunicate, etc. 3. The King of every country can make & ordain Ministers. 4. The King of every country is a Pope or Patriarch in his own territories and Dominions. How these points will agree with the Analogy of faith let every man judge, & so give sentence whither this objection contain any the least show of truth in it, yea or nay. Now what authority the Lord hath given every King in his own dominions I leave to be descussed in his proper place, viz: in the 15. Section of this letter to Mr. Bern. The fifth Objection. But the ministry is now extraordinarily raised up: For as in the first planting of the Churches the Lord jesus used the extraordinary ministry of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, to publish the Gospel to the world, & to plant Churches, so after the Apostasy of Antichrist, in the restoring of the truth the Lord useth the same extraordinary ministery not endued with those extraordinary gifts which they had, but appointed by the L. for the same purposes, viz: the planting of true Churches & the revealing of his truth. Answer to the fifth Objection. First the Ministers of England, & namely you Mr. Ber. among the rest, do not chalendg to be Apostles, Prophets, & Evangelists, but you say you are true presbyters, or Pastors of particular true visible Churches, & therefore this objection helpeth you nothing, if it were yielded you: Secondly, you cannot maintain your ordinary ministery as succeeding by ordination from these supposed, Apostles, Evangelists & Prophets, for than you must acknowledge the prelate's of England to be Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, whereas they do challendg no such thing. But only maintain themselves to be ordinary Bbs. the ordinary Successors of the Apostles, neither do they intend to make you ministers as Apostles but as Bbs. Thirdly, there is none of the Reformists that ever I heard of that undertake as Apostles Prophets, Evangelists, to ordain Elders. Finally, how can any of you be Apostles, Prophets, or Evangelists? who stand members of the assemblies in subjection to the prelate's, whose Lords you are, if you be either Apostles, Prophets, or Evangelists: but you see they are your Lords: For either you are false Apostles, & false Prophets, or else by the evidence of the word & Spirit, you must rise up & stand out against & depose the prelate's, whose authority you say is Antichristian: beside that you must prove unto us by good & sufficient warrant that the Lord raiseth up Apostles, prophets, & Evangelists, to overthrow Antichrist, & to restore the true ministery: & that you who with all your might support the Throne of the beast are those Apostles, prophets, & Evangelists, whom the L. raiseth up for that purpose: which yet you never have done or attempted to do, & whither you can do or not I leave to the consideration of all those that search after the truth. Hitherto I have proved by sufficient arguments negatively, that Christ's Ministerial power is not given by Christ primarily & by succession, either to the pope, Bbs. or presbytery: whose claim dependeth upon one & the same title, viz: Successive ordination from the Apostles, through the Church of Rome to the hands of every priest or presbyter in England: & therefore the Ministerial power of Christ must needs be given primarily to the bodx of every visible Church, though they be but two or three in number: For this is a sufficient Enumeration of parts that Christ's ministerial power is given primarily either to the Pope, Bbs. Presbytery or body of the Church: except that men will say it is given to the King of every Kingdom, which is an absurdity intolerable, as is already declared, & which I never heard pleaded for, & which the Kings of England do renounce: But Christ's ministerial power is not given by successive ordination, either to the Pope, Bbs. or Presbytery primarily or originally: therefore Christ's ministerial power is given to the body of the Church, viz: to two or three faithful people joined together into an Ecclesiastical politic body by the true covenant, or new testament of Christ jesus. But because happily some persons may be unsatisfied, seeing the former arguments are only ground upon reason, & not from particular evidence of Scripture: Therefore I hold it necessary furthermore to confirm this truth of the L. by undeniable grounds of Scripture, & that affirmatively as followeth. The first Argument from Mat. 16. 13-20. From this place of Scripture I frame an argument after this manner. Christ's Disciples are Christ's Church, Mat. 16.13.18. Christ's ministerial power is given to Christ's Disciples. Ergo: Christ's ministerial power is given to Christ's Church, The Minor of this argument which only is doubtful I confirm thus. That which was spoken & given to Peter, that was spoken & given to all the Disciples of Christ, Mat. 16.13.14.19. Christ's ministerial power was uttered, & delivered to Peter, who spoke for & in the name of the rest, Mat. 16.13.15.16.18.19. Ergo: Christ's ministerial power was by speech & indeed committed to all Christ's Disciples. The Major of this argument only is controversal which I manifest thus: Unto them did Christ speak & commit his ministerial power that made the confession, viz: that Christ was that Christ, the Son of the living God. But Peter & all the Disciples by Peter's mouth made that confession, viz: that Christ was that Christ, the Son of the living God. Ergo: Unto all the Disciples did Christ speak, & give that his Ministerial power. The Minor being cleared the whole Argumennt is evident: Wherefore consider, 1. That Christ in the us. 13. asketh his Disciples a question, 2. In the us, 15. he saith whom do ye say that I am: by which it appeareth that Christ asketh this question of all his Disciples generally: and so it followeth by proportion necessarily that seeing all were demanded that question therefore all made that answer & confession: the argument is framed after this manner. They answered & made the confession unto whom Christ propounded the question, or made the demand. But Christ propounded the question or demand to all his Disciples, and not only to peter, or only to the twelve Apostles, as may be proved in the course of the text, us. 13-24. Ergo: All the Disciples answered & made the confession there mentioned by the Evangelist. The Second Argument from Mat. 18. 15-20. & 16.19. From these places I reason after this manner. That which is given to two or three of Christ's Disciples, is given to the body of the Church, if they be many in number. Christ's Ministerial power is given to two or three Disciples of Christ. Ergo: Christ's ministerial power much more is given to the body of the church being many in number. The Major is without controversy for though Christ's power be given to two or three, then much more to twenty, thirty, an hundredth, they being all of them Christ's Disciples. The minor is proved after this manner: The keys of the Kingdom of heaven, or the power of binding & losing, is given to two or three Disciples of Christ. Christ's ministerial power is the keys of the Kingdom of heaven, or the power of binding & losing. Ergo: Christ's ministerial power is given to two or three Disciples off Christ. The minor being evident, the major may thus be confirmed. Unto them doth Christ give the keys of the kingdom of heaven, or power of binding & losing to whom & of whom he speaketh: But Christ speaketh to Diseiples, & of brethren. Ergo: the keys of the Kingdom of heaven, or power of binding & losing, is given by Christ to the Disciples or brethren. The minor, viz: that Christ speaketh to Disciples & of brethren, is manifest by diverse particular, us. 1.15.21. The Disciples move a question unto Christ, concerning the Kingdom of heaven: & Christ teacheth unto them, us. 15. that the little ones, that is the brethren & the Disciples must not be offended: or if they go astray & be lost, they should be sought again, & us. 15-17. teacheth the duties of admonition in the degrees thereof for the winning of our brethren, & perserving of them from going astray: therefore us. 18. he speaketh of brethren & Disciples, attributing to them the power of binding & losing, & us. 19 promising the hearing of their prayers, & us. 20. promising to them his presence, if they be but three or two, & us. 21.22. teaching them remission of offences private, unto seventy time seven times: Whereupon I ground this infallible argument. Iff the whole scope & intent of this place, Mat. 18. 15-20. compared with Mat. 16. 13-20. doth aim at the Disciples of Christ, or the brethren, Mat. 23.8. teaching that binding and losing, the keys of the Kingdom of heaven, Christ's presence, & acceptance of their prayers, etc. aperteyneth to them: then Christ's ministerial power is given to the Disciples or brethren, if but three or two, & so much more if they be a multitude. But the whole scope of these places is directed to the Disciples or brethren: Teaching that offences must be avoided among them: Lost or wandering sheep must be sought out: brethren impenieent must be bound: & penitent loosed: That they have the power of binding & losing on earth: That Christ promiseth to them his presence & acceptance, that they must till 70. times 7. times remit offences private etc. Ergo: Christ's ministerial power is given to the Disciples or brethren, if they be but three or two, & so much more if they be a multitude. The third Argument from Mat. 28. 16-20. From this place of Scripture I reason after this manner. To whom preaching & baptizing is committed, to them the power of binding & losing is given. power to preach & baptise is given to the Disciples of Christ, or to the brethren, or to the body of the Church. Ergo: power to bind & lose, that is Christ's ministerial power is given to the disciples, or brethren, or the body of the Church. The Major of this argument is true by proportion of parity: For by one & the same power, doth the Church, preach, pray, baptise, administer the L. Supper, excommunicate, absolve, etc. viz: by the ministerial power of Christ: & therefore if the body of the church being more or fewer have power to preach & baptise, they have power to bind & lose: The rather considering that preaching the Gospel is a main part of binding & losing of men to & from their sins, & a principal part of the power of the keys in shutting & opening heaven gates to the impenitent or penitent sinners. The Minor of this argument may be confirmed by this reason. To whom Christ promiseth his presence to the worlds end: To them he giveth power to preach & baptise. But to his Discipls Christ promiseth his presence to the worlds end, even to two or three gathered together into his name: Mat. 18.20. & 28.20. yea to any Separated people. 2. Cor. 6. 16-18. Ergo: To his Disciples, to two or three gathered togenther into his name, doth he give power to preach & baptise. The fourth argument from Marc. 13. 33-37. From this place of Scripture I frame an Argument thus: Christ's Servants have Christ's authority: Christ's visible Church, or two or three faithful people are Christ's Servants. Ergo: Christ's visible Church hath Christ's authority. Here by the way may be noted that in this place Marc. 13.34. Christ giveth authority to his Servants: But Mat. 28.18. Christ receiveth authority or power from his Father, even all the power in heaven & earth, whereby we may collect that which was before affirmed that Christ's power is donble, 1. that power Monarchical which is inherent in his own person, & is incommunicable to any creature, 2. That power Ministerial which he delegateth to his Servants, to his Disciples, to two or three faithful people wheresoever. But concerning the argument if it be objected that Christ's Servants are the Apostles, & their Successors: I deny it: For there is a distinction made between the Servants & the Porter: Now the authority is given generally to the Servants of the house, & watching is specially enjoined to the Porter: & if it be any thing that the Apostles & their Sucicessors have, it is watching by way of office, for so the porter is to wach: & yet that duty also is particularly applied & enjoined to every one us. 37. The fifth Argument, from joh. 20. 18-24. & Luk. 24. 35-53. From these places of Scripture compared together I collect this argument. If Christ's Ministerial power of binding & losing be given to Marie Magdalene, & Cleopas, jointly with the rest of the Disciples of Christ: Then it is given to the body of the Church. But power of binding & losing, remitting & retaining sins is given to Marie Magdalene, & Cleopas, jointly with the rest of Christ's Disciples. Therefore Christ's ministerial power of binding & losing, or remitting & retaining sins is given to the body of the Church. The Minor of this argument may easily be proved by comparing the two former places of Scripture together: For in Luke Cleopas & the other Disciple brought tidings off Christ's Resurrection to the eleven, & others that were with them: Luke. 24.33.34.36. Whence it is evident that Cleopas, the other Disciple, the eleven, & others were together: This day was the first day of the week, us. 23.33.36. Even that very day wherein Christ arose: Now upon this day Christ spoke those words, & gave the power of remitting & retaining sins unto all the Disciples, not only to the eleven, but to Cleopas, Marie Magdasene, & others assembled together that night when Christ appeared to them all together jointly in the house, Joh. 20.23. The sixth Argument. from Act. 2.39. & 3.25. compared with Rom. 4.11.12. & Gal. 3.7.9.14.15. From these places of Scripture compared together I frame this argument. Unto whom the promises, the covenant, the blessing is given, unto them the ministerial power of Christ, viz: the power of binding & losing is given. But the promises, the covenant, the blessing is given to the posterity of Abraham, according to the faith, that is to all the faithful, who are indeed the true children of Abraham, joh. 8.39. Ergo: Christ's ministerial power, viz: The power of binding & losing is given to the faithful: That is to two or three faithful people which are a true body unto Christ, The consequent of this argument only is doubtful: For cleared whereof we must know that the keys of the Kingdom of heaven is a promise which Christ maketh to his Church, Mat. 16.19. wherein the chief part of the comfort of the Church consisteth: it is also one principal part of the covenant or new Testament which Christ hath established by his blood & purchased for his Church, which is sealed up unto the Church in administering & partaking in the seals of the covenant: it is also a special part of the blessing by the same reason: For the blessing is this: That they that bless the Church & faithful shall be blessed: & they that curse the Church shallbe cursed: Genes. 12.3. also remission of sins is a part of the blessing, Rom. 4.7.8. & binding & losing is remitting or tetayning sin, blessing & cursing, as is most evident. So that seeing that power of binding & losing, remitting & retaining sin, is a part of the promise, covenant, & blessing, therefore the faithful having the covenant, promise, & blessing given to them, they have also therewith the power of binding & losing, that is Christ's ministerial power, & therefore the consequent of this argument is fume & the undoubted truth of God. The seventh Argument from Esa. 9.6. joh. 3.16. joh. 13.13. Act. 2.36. & 3.22.23. Luk. 2.11. From these places of Scripture compared together I reason thus. Unto whom Christ is given to be King, Priest, & Prophet, directly & immediately: unto them is Christ's ministerial power given, viz: power of binding & losing. But Christ is given as King, Priest, & Prophet, directly & immediately to two or three faithful people wheresoever living together in the world. Therefore Christ's ministerial power of binding & losing is also given unto two or three faithful ones wheresoever joined together in the world. The consequent of this argument only is doubtful which may thus most manifestly be confirmed & expoundend: when Christ is given, then with Christ all things else are given, Rom. 8.32. Christ I say with all his apurtenances: when Christ the King is given to the faithful, than Christ's Kingdom is given unto them, then have they Christ's power to administer that Kingdom according to his direction: when Christ the Priest is given to the faithful, than Christ's Sacrifice is given unto them, & power to administer all the efficacy of his priesthood unto the Saints according to his direction: when Christ the Prophett is given to the faithful, than Christ's Prophecy, or the Holy doctrine of Salvation is given to the Church, with power for the dispensing thereof according to his own ordinance: b● reason whereof the Saints are said to have an anointing or Chrisma from him that is Holy, 1. joh. 2.20. & therefore are called Christians, Act. 11.26. being anointed to be King's 〈◊〉 Pre●sts unto God, Revel. 1.6. & Prophets, Act. 2.17.18. Seeing then that by Christ the 〈◊〉 priest, & Prophet who is given to the Saints, the Saints are made, Kings, Priests, & Prophet's, therefore as Kings they have a ministerial power given them of binding & losing, 〈◊〉 so ●orth of the rest. The eight Argument from Mat. 18. 15-20. compared with 1. Cor. 5.4.5. Mat. 6.12. Luk. 17.3. ●●●n these places of Scripture I collect this argument. If one brother hath power to retain the sins of a brother impenitent privately, & to remit the sins of a brother penitent privately: then a communion of faithful men have power to retain the sins of an impenitent member publicly, & to remit the sins of one that is penitent publicly. But one brother hath power, given him by Christ to retain the sins of a brother privately impenitent, and to remit the sins of a brother privately penitent. Ergo: a communion of faithful people have power to retain the sins of a member publicly impenitent, & to remit the sins of a brother publicly penitent. To the same sense the argument may be framed after this manner. If witnesses admonishing a brother have power given them by Christ to retain the sins of a brother impenitent before witness & to remit the sins of a brother penitent before witness▪ then a communion of faithful men have power to retain the sins of a brother publicly impenitent, or to remit the sins of a brother publicly declaring his repentance. But witnesses admonishing a brother, have power from Christ to retain the sins of a brother impenitent before witness, & to remit the sins of a brother penitent before witness. Ergo: a communion of faithful men have power to retain the sins of a brother publicly impenitent, or to remit the sins of a brother publicly declaring his repentance. The premises of both those arguments are evident out of Matthew & Luke: & the conclusion is the Apostles direction to the Corinth's. The ninth Argument from Eph, 5.30.32. & 1.22.23. Revel. 21.2. & 22.17. From these Scriptures compared together I draw this argument. The wife hath power immediately from her husband, & the body hath power immediately from the head. The visible Church or a communion of faithful people, are Christ's spouse, the wise of the lamb, & Christ mystical body. Ergo the visible Church or a communion of faithful ones have Christ's ministerial power immediately from him. Again: As the body hath life, sense, motion & power from the head, the hands & feet have power from the body: So the Church hath power from Christ the head, the members of the Church as the Elders & Deacons have power from the Church. But it is true in nature, that the body hath life, sense, motion & power from the head: & all the members have power from the body. Ergo: the Church hath power from Christ the head: the members of the Church, viz: the Elders & Deacons have power from the Church. By all which arguments put together it appeareth most evidently that Christ's ministerial power of binding & losing is given to the body of eyery true visible Church, and that all the Officers of the Church have their power and authority to administer derived unto them from Christ through the body of the Church where they administer. And thus have I proved evidently as I take it both that Christ's ministerial power cometh not by successive ordination by the hands of the ministry: & that it is immediately given to the body of the Church. And here for your further information Mr. Bern. I wish you to take notice that succession is a typical ordinance of the Old Testament, & therefore abolished by Christ's coming: For the Apostle wisheth us to take heed of jewish Fables & Genealogies. 1. Tim. 1 4. Tit. 1.14. because these genealogies were of necessity for the carnal ordinances of the old Testament, but the Spiritual genealogy & succession is for the new testament: In the old Testament they had carnal parents a carnal seed, carnal children, carnal csrcumcision, carnal commandments, a carnal temple, a carnal city, a carnal priesthood, a carnal Kingdom: in the new Testament we have spiritual parents, a spiritual seed which is the word, spiritual children, viz: the faithful, circumcision made without hands, spiritual commandments, a spiritual temple, an heavenly city, spiritual Priests & Kings, & a spiritual kingdom & priesthood: Therefore succession in the old Testament was carnal by genealogy: if you therefore will set up a carnal succession in the new Testament by ordination for the ministry, you must do it also, 1. For the Church, & so fetch it from Rome, 2. For the baptism, & so fetch it from Rome, 3. For the L. Supper, & so fetch it from Rome, 4. For the Faith, & so fetch it from Rome, 5. For excommunication, & so fetch it from Rome: & so forth of the rest, & this is to tie all Churches to the unity & succession of the chair of Rome, as in the old Testament all were tied to the unity & succession of the temple at jerusalem: Herein therefore you see how you vanish away in your jmaginations by setting up succession, approving yourself before you be aware a jew, a Papist, an Antichristian: this shall suffice for the matter of ordination or succession, whereby it appeareth to be a jewish Popish, & Antichristian devise. In the next place let us here your nine reasons Mr, Bernard which you bring to confute this our faith, and most evident truth of God: where first in general note that we do not deny, but that the power of the Church is for order sake committed into some particular persons hands, who in the Church's name, & for the Churches good, & in the Church's presence are to handle all Church matters, & therefore whereas your 9-reasons are brought against popularity as you call it, you are to remember that Christ's church in several respects is a Monarchy, an Aristocraty, a Democraty. In respect of Christ the King it is a Monarchy, of the Eldership an aristocraty, of the brethren jointly a Democraty or Popular government: For Christ the King he ruleth by his own laws & Officers: The body of the Church, the spouse of Christ ruleth as the wise under the husband, according to the will & appointment of her husband: The Elders rule as the stewards of Christ the King, & of the church which is the wise or spouse of the King: Now as it is unreasonable to appoint the steward or Servant of the King either over the King himself, or over the Queen who is the King's wife: So is it Antichristian to place the Elders as Rulers over the whole body of the Church, although every particular person and cause is subject to be ordered by that authority which the Church jointly received from Christ, and delegateth to them: we say therefore that the body of the Church hath all power immediately from Christ: and the Elders have all their power from the body of the Church, which power of the Eldership is not exercised, nor can not be used over or against the whole body of the Church, for that is an Antichristian usurpation: but only it is exercised over and against particular persons and disorders arising in the Church, the Eldership herein dealing for the body in the public works thereof: briefly therefore to answer in general to all your nine reasons, used against popularity, we dispute not whither the Elders must rule or not, but we dispute who have the negative voice in their hands, or who have the determining power in them: or who give the definitive sentence in all matters: We say that the definitive sentence the determining power, the negative voice is in the body of the church, not in the Elders: yet we say the Elders are to lead & govern all persons & causes of the Church, but to lead & govern contrary to the definition & voice of the body that we deny, & that we say is Antichristian. Your first reason Mr. Bernard is that popularity is contrary to God's order under the law and before the law, under the law the power of Governing was in the Levites: before the law it was in the first borne, & this governing power was not received from the people under the law, but from the Lord by Moses: but the people only approved the Lords appointment. I answer: The first borne and so by consequent the Levites did type two things, 1. That Privilege and prerogative which Christ jesus hath, who is the first borne having the pre-eminence in all things, Colos. 1.18.1, Cor. 15.20. Revel. 1.5. For Christ is the first & most noble in the Church, even the head, & Fountain of all heavenly grace & excellency: 2. The first borne and so by consequent the Levites did shadow out the church. Exod. 4.22.23. who is the first borne of all the men of the earth most dear and precious to the Lord: So that this reason of yours may thus be retorted upon your selsf. If the first borne before the law, & the Levites for the first borne under the law, had the pre-eminence: then Christ, & the visible Church which were shadowed out by the first borne, & by the Levites, have the preminence & power in the new Testament. But the first borne before the law, & the Levites for the first borne under the law had the power & pre-eminence: by your own confession. Ergo: Christ & the visible church from Christ, shadowed out by the first borne & the Levites, have the power & pre-eminence in the new Testament. Remember for this particular that the first borne, the first Fruits, the Priests, Levites, Rings & Princes of judah did all type forth unto us in the new testament the visible church & the Saints next under Christ who is the head to the body of the Church as these scriptures do manifestly declare, 1. Pet. 2.5: 9 Revel. 1.5, 6. Col. 1.18. 1. Cor. 15.20. The second of your nine reasons against popularity is that it is without warrant in the Apostles time: The Apostles always begun, continued and composed church matters, the body of the congregation were only made acquainted with matters, aliberty granted them to choose officers, but they did never make any themselves: nor attempted any thing of themselves. This argument Mr. Bern. is partly untrue, partly against yourself: Untrue it is thus far forth that you say the body of the congregation never attempted any thing without Elders: For I demand of you: what did the 120. persons in the first of the acts, did they not choose an Apostle into office & ordain him? but they had no Elders as yet: for the holy Ghost was not come down upon them, & so the● were no Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors & Teachers. Eph. 4.8.11? did not the Churches of Lystra, Iconium, & Antiochia think you worship God, admonish & excommunicate, during the time of the Apostles absence from them, when as yet they had no Elders, Act. 14 21-23? did not the Churches in Creta think you worship God, & govern in the absence of the Apostles & Titus when as yet Elders were not appointed, Tit. 1▪ 5. you cannot deny that the Churches were established before they had officers: if you do the Apostle saith that they that are to be chosen Elders, must not be newly planted into the faith, 1. Tim. 3.6. & so by consequent from the time of establishing Churches till Election of officers, there must needs be a space of time for trial of men's gifts & conversation & constancy in the faith during which time the Apostles being absent from the Churches, I make no doubt, but they did worship God, & perform the other parts of their Spiritual communion: it they did so, than I say, look how many Churches were established by the Apostles: So many examples there are of the congregation attempting every thing almost, without Elders: & so the Second reason of yours containeth so many untruths as there were Churches planted by the Apostles in the Acts, who did not the first day of their planting institute their Elderships, but some certain competent space of time afterward, wherein there might be sufficient trial▪ & knowledge of men's gifts & qualifications fit for office: & this may suffice for your untruths. Now further your reason is against yourself in this particular wherein you yield the cause, that the body of the congregation had a liberty to choose their officers: whence I reason thus against you. They that have liberty to choose their own officers, & to worship God publicly before they have officers: they have all the rest of Christ's power ministerial before they have officers. But the body of every congregation hath power to worship God publicly (as you see) & have liberty to choose their own officers (as you confess) & yet want Elders. Ergo: the body of every congregation hath all the rest of Christ's ministerial power before they have officers. I say the body of the Church hath power: which power cometh after into act & execution when her officers are chosen, viz: The power of baptizing & administering the Lords Supper: & yet it may also be questioned whither the Church may not as well administer the Seals of the covenant before they have Officers, as Pray, Prophecy, Elect Officers and the rest, seeing that to put the Seals to the covenant is not a greater work than publishing the covenant, or Election of officers, or excommunication. The third of your 9 reasons against popularity is that it is against Christ's commission granted to the Apostles & their Successors, as Timothy, Titus, & the chief ministers of the Gospel: & that therefore the place 1. Cor. 5.4. must be expounded of the Elders as you say the Apostle showeth, 1. Cor. 2.6. Well Mr. Bern. this is old rusty rotten popish stuff even as ancient as the Church of Antichrist some of it, viz: that of succession: which hath already received answer, & the contrary been proved at large in this Section whither I refer you. But here are certain untruths avouched by you which must be answered, viz: one is: that Christ's commission was granted only to the Apostles, & their Successors: I have proved already in the former reasons that the commission was given to the body of the Church expounding those four places which you quote, viz: Mat. 28.19. & 16.19. john. 20. 21-23. Marc. 13.34. which also is further cleeked, for that the twelve were not yet Apostles, but only nominated to the office, for they were endued with power from on high upon the day of Pentecost, Luk. 24.49. compared with Act. 2.4. Eph, 4.8.11. as also for that Cleopas, Mary Magdalene, & others besides the eleven were present when the commission was given unto the Disciples, finally because the Apostles were the Church representative, yea every one of them: having in them power to perform all the offices of all officers, & members of the Church: & the Church only is the true Successor of the Apostles, & no one man o● Minister whatsoever, seeing no one person hath power to perform all offices of all officers and members, which notwithstanding the whole Church jointly hath. A second untruth is this, that you say the Apostles committed that commission given them by Christ not to the body of the Church, but to Timothy, Titus, & their successors as appeareth 1. Tim. 6.13.14. as you say: whereto I answer that the Apostles leave the power which they received from Christ jointly with the rest of the Disciples, in the hands of the Church not of Timothy & Titus only, & that chardg which Paul giveth to Timothy respecteth the whole Epistle and all the contents thereof which aperteyne to all sorts of persons in the Church aswell as to Timothy, as may be seen in the whole second Chapter: & how prove you that Timothy an Evangelist Succeeded Paul an Apostle? Or that the Elders of Ephesus succeeded Timothy an Evangelist? A third untruth is this, that you say the place 1. Cor. 5.4.13. must be understood of Elders as you say may appear, 1. Cor. 2.6. whereto I answer that this is a pretty trick, but it will not serve your turn, to turn away the truth & evidence to this place: For first the Epistle is written to the whole body of the Church, all the circumstances of the Chap. 5. teach that the whole body was leavened, & that their rejoicing was not good, & that they ought not to be mingled with the brethren that were fornicators, & that they ought not to eat the L. Supper with such persons: that they have power to judge them that are within, & that they must cast out from among them that incestuous person: & whereas you would needs by one phrase (viz the rebuke of many, 2. Cor. 2.6.) expound this general as spoken of many Elders not many brethren, I say herein you coin a false exposition: For doth it follow that because the rebuke was delivered by many either brethren or Elders who are to lead in all public actions, therefore the Apostle enjoineth the Elders only to excommunicate? or because some only pronounce the rebuke, & the sentence of excommunication, therefore they only have power to decree it? I desire you would make these consequents hang or depend necessarily upon their antecedents or else you do but wrest the Scriptures to your destruction: besides that place, 2. Cor. 2.6. doth not teach who either decreed or pronounced his excommunication, but only who rebuked him for his sin which were many (Elders if you will:) For I take it the place is manifest that he was not excommunicate, because he repent upon the reproof: which the Apostle saith is sufficient. And sometime in the Scripture many, signifieth all: & all signifieth many: as these places declare, Matt. 3.5. Roman. 5.18.19. Therefore this quirk off yours is but a mere Sophistical cavil to put of the truth. The fourth of your 9 reasons against popularity is that the place of Ephes. 4.11.12. is against it, for there the Apostle declareth (say you) that gifts for the ministery are given to the Ministers for the Church, not to the Church for the Ministers: and that therefore the power of Christ is not given to the body of the Church, but only to the Elders: & this you show by a simile from the parts of the body which do not receive their qualities, faculties, or gifts from the body, but from God. To this reason I answer: that you declare yourself to be either blind or wilfully to shut your eyes against the truth & evidence of this place: For it is as clear as the shining of the Sun in the Firmament of heaven against your exposition & objection: For I pray you in good sooth doth this argument follow, viz: Christ giveth gifts unto men not by the mediation of the body of the Church: therefore Christ giveth his ministerial power to the officers, & not to the body? yet this is the force of your argument, which may for more evidence be framed thus. If Christ give gifts to the officers of the Church, not by the Church, but immediately by & from himself: Then Christ giveth power of binding & losing to the officers of the Church, not by the means of the church, but by such means as God hath appointed: (that is as I guess by Succession.) But you say the Antecedent is true by the place of the Eph, 4. And I say the consequent or conclusion followeth not upon the antecedent: but it is merely asyllogiston. But I will declare the inconsequence more fully: The Lord he giveth gifts to men either ordinarily or extraordinarily: Extraordinarily he gave gifts to men in the primitive Churches: Ordinarily he giveth gifts to men by study, & pains, & by nature, so he gave the gifts of Tongues and Prophecy extraordinarily to the primittive Churches, be giveth the same gifts now ordinarily by means of Study and the help of natural wit: How will it follow that because the Lord gave gifts, therefore he gave his Ministerial power extraordinarily from heaven? Why? you confess that power of binding and losing was given before Christ's ascension, but now you would prove by this place Ephes. 4. that the power of binding & losing is given after Christ's ascension, and that these gifts and this power are given together: is not this to contradict yourself? hereby you see the weakness of your reason: For you must distinguish betwixt the power of binding and losing which the Disciples had committed unto them before Christ's ascension: and betwixt the gifts of the day of Pentecost. But what are those gifts mentioned in that place of Ephes. 4.8.11.12. and unto whom are those gifts given? I will declare it unto you, and so your mouth shallbe ●●opt. These gifts which are said to be given to men are those four sorts of Officers which the Apostle mentioneth us. 11. Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors & Teachers, for the two last are one office. These officers with their gifts are said to be given to men: who are these men unto whom these officers with their gifts are given? are they not the Church? is not the office of an Elder, Pastor, or Teacher the L. gift to the Church? This place you see therefore is most pregnant against your opinion: as may appear thus, That which is given by Christ to the Church is in the power & possession of the Church. The officers & offices of the Church are given to the Church. Ergo: the officers & offices of the Church are in the power & possession of the Church. Wherefore I say unto you that the gifts of preaching, administration of the Sacraments & Governing, are given unto some men, but the office & officers endued with these gifts are given unto the Church, who have power to appoint them to their office, & who do receive both their office & power to administer in their office from the Church, unto whom the office & power of Christ is given primarily, being the next Lord thereof under Christ the Monarch. And for your simile of the parts receiving their properties from God: not from the body, it is perversely applied: For this is the true use and application of the simile: as the head communicateth all the power & faculty which any part hath from itself, to that part by the body: so the head Christ communicated his power to the parts and officers of the Church by the body of the Church: which is Christ mystical: I confess some parts of the body have some special properties and qualities which they receive not from the head: as the Stomach hath the quality Chilificandi, the liver Sangnificandi, etc. not from the head, but the power and faculty to use the property it hath from the head: So some members of the Church have special gifts given them of God, but the power of using those gifts they have from the head Christ by the means of the body, which is the pipe that from the Fountain conveigheth all power Ecclesiastical to every officer. The Fifth of your 9 reasons against popularity is that the Scripture doth not lay the Government upon the people, nor reproveth them for sussering abuse of Holy things: but upon the governors civil & Ecclesiastical, Ezech. 22.26. 1. Sam. 2, 17. 1. King. 13. Mat 23. Revel. 2.1.8.12.18. & 3.17.14. I answer briefly from the Type to the truth concerning matters of the Old Testament: now the Saints are all of them made Kings and Priests unto God Revelat. 1.6. Or as the Apostle Peter saith: Basileion hierateuma, 1. Pet. 2.9. a Kingly priesthood: Therefore now in the New Testament the Saints succeed in the place of the Kings and Priests of the Old Testament in Ecclesiastical causses: and as they were burdened with Government and reproof for profanation of holy things: so are the Saints the members of the visible Church, now burdened with Government Ecclesiastical, and reproof for violating the Holy things committed to their custody & fidelity: & therefore I reason from your own confession against you thus, If Kings & Priests in the Old Testament were charged with Government, and blamed for violation of holy things: Then in the New Testament the Saints (who are Kings? & Priests) are charged with government, & blamed for violation of Holy things. But Kings & Preistts in the old Testament were charged with government, & blamed for violation of Holy things. Therefore the Saints in the new Testament are charged with government ecclesiastical, & blamed for violation of Holy things. And thus you see Mr. Ber. how your own weapon entereth into your own bowels: & concerning the places of the Revelation that the Angels of the seven Churches were charged with government, & blamed for abuse of the Holy things & not the body of the Church, I say herein you utter foul untruths: For Chap. 1. us. 4-7. the Apostle witeth to the 7. Churches of Asia, & wisheth grace & peace to the Churches & all the members of the Churches: & Chap. 2.11. & at the end of every Epistle, the Apostle maketh application of every Epistle to all that have ears, & to the particular Churches: where for I wonder at your shameless ignorance that should thus falsely belie the Scriptures, & abuse the reader: To turn the point of this reason of yours also upon yourself, I say thus. If john chargeth the whole Churches with government & abuse of holy things (though the message be sent to the angel to be published to the whole church) than the whole churches are charged therewith, viz: with government & violation of holy things. But john chargeth the whole Churches with the government & abuse of Holy things: (though the message be sent to the angel of every Church, to be published to the whole Church.) Therefore the whole Churches are charged with the government & violation of the holy things. Thus much briefly concerning your fifth reason: & here you make a digression to prove unto us that Matt. 18.17, Tell the Church must be expounded: Tell the Governors: For confirmation whereof you bring us seven reasons which I will handle in order. Your first reason to prove that: Tell the Church is Tell the Governors, is this: for that otherwise Christ could not be understood, for if he had brought in a strange course not heard of before, nor then practised, no man could understand his meaning: therefore before then & after the practice was to tell to the Elders or governors: therefore tell to the Church is tell to the Governors or Elders. A 'las for you Mr. Bern. this is borrowed stuff, & yet stark nought: For it is but froth & chaff: & what is the chaff to the wheat? Do not you think that the whole Gospel is a mystery which was kept secret from the beginning of the world & is not the visible Church of the new Testament with all the ordinances thereof, the chief & principal part of the Gospel? & therefore, seeing this ordinance of telling the Church is a part of the Gospel, it was formerly hidden & mystical, & now it was revealed plainly by Christ: & although happily the Disciples understood not Christ's meaning at that present, yet after ward the Holy Ghost brought that & many other necessary things which they either understood not Christ's meaning at that present, yet afterward the Holy Ghost brought that & many other necessary things which they either understood not or forgot, to their knowledge & memory as the Scripture witnesseth: But further I say that particular was obscurely signified by the Typical King and Priests in the Old Testament unto whom the Government was committed, as I have already more than once declared unto you: & further the government was then given to all Christ's Disciples by commission as I have already proved sufficiently to your conscience & the conscience of all that love the truth in sincerity. That of the excommunication of the blind man joh. 9.22. was a devise of the jews, for there is no warrant for it in all the law: & if it were the L. ordinance, it typeth unto us thus much that the visible Church succeeding in the place of the typical Kings & priests have in their hands the power of excommunication. And although Cloe made complaint to the Governor yet it is nothing to the purpose: For Cloe complaineth of an whole Church to an Apostle: not of a particular person to the Elders of a particular Church: and do you think that this is a good argument? That seeing a particular person complaineth to or informeth the Apostle of the state of the Church (who had an infallible gift of instructing and directing of Churches) therefore a particular person in the third place or degree of admonition must tell the Elders, & that therefore those Elders are the Church? The argument is altogether inconsequent. Your second reason that tell the Church is tell the Governors is Christ's chandg of the person: From the third to the second: The force of your argument is this. If Christ having spoken in the third person saying: Tell the Church: afterward turneth his speech to the second person saying: whatsoever ye bind etc. then tell the Church is tell the Elders. But Christ chandgeth his speech from the third to the second person. Therefore tell the Church is tell the Elders. Mr. Ber. you were not well advised in making this argument: For it overthroweth your exposition most manifestly, as thus. If Christ calleth his Disciples the Church, then tell the Church is tell the Disciples or the body of the Church. But Christ calleth all his Disciples the Church: For this commission of binding and losing is given to all the Disciples jointly as is already declared more fully in the former arguments. Therefore tell the Church is tell the body of the Church, all Christ's Disciples, & not only the Governors. Therefore this reason confirmeth the truth we hold, & not the error which you seek to defend by wresting the Scripture. Your third reason that tell the Church is tell the Governors is, for that Christ speaketh of two or three. That is to say (after your exposition) of two or three Elders or governors & not of the whole body. I answer that your argument is without all force of consequence: For to argue thus is to argue without reason or force of argument, viz. if Christ speaketh of two or three, than he speaketh of two or three Elders or Governors. But Christ speaketh of two or three. Ergot Christ speaketh of two or three Elders or Governors. Further by this argument one Apostle could do nothing, but there must needs be two or three: & so one Elder can do nothing, but there must needs be two or three: & so your Prelate's Monarchy in their dioceses falleth to the ground but your arguments grow ridiculous. Now the reason why Christ speaketh of two or three is for consolation to the Church & Disciples of Christ, teaching that if but two or three of them at any time walk together in the faith & truth of Christ, those two or three have title to Christ & all his ordinances & have promise of audience & acceptance: as also to instruct the Saints, to stand for the truth against multitudes, though they be the smallest number which is three or two, for Christ he will not leave them destitute of his presence and assistance. Your Fourth reasons that Tell the Church is Tell the Elders in this: that the person is changed from the second to the third, us. 19 if two of you shall agree, etc. whatsoever they shall ask &c: the force of the argument is all one with the second, & so hath received answer there, but it seemeth you delight in number & multitude: yet for further evidence I will show you the reason: the frame whereof is thus to be conceived. Iff there be a Grammatical change of the person, viz: you: they: then there is a Real chandg off the person physical, viz: The Governors: The Church. But there is a grammatical chandg of the person, you: they. Ergo: There is a Real chandg of the person physical, viz: The Governors: the Church. I deny your Major, & still I avouch that the chandg of the person is by way of exposition. teaching: that they: & you: are one: namely, whither they be two of Christ's Disciples then living (viz you) or any other two or three to the end of the world, (viz they,) Christ hath promised his power, presence, & acceptance to them: For so he saith wheresoever two or three, us. 20. & Mat. 28.20. Lo I am with you always: So that these two general circumstances of place & time are for the consolation & instruction of the Church if they be but two or three in all ages: For not the multitude, but the truth is respected of Christ: & all times & places are indifferent for the Church of the new Testament which was otherwise in the old Testament: For the Lord then promised his presence especially in the Temple, upon their Sabbaths, & to the special people: but now the partition wall is broken down, & now all times, places, & persons are indifferent for the church & the Lord. Your fifth reason that Tell the Church is Tell the Governors is this: that otherwise absurdities cannot be avoided that arise out of the text: the absurdities you suppose would follow are, 1. confusion, 2, carelessness, whereupon follow pride & contention, 3. women & children speaking in the Church, 4. that the whole Church can speak. 5. Christ's should cross himself, who giveth the power to two or three. Hereunto I answer: the supposed absurdities either do not follow, or if they do follow are no absurdities: For the truth is not absurd. First, it doth not follow that there must needs be confusion, carelessness, pride, or contention, if a brother be promoted to the body of the Church for his offence after once & twice admonition: but rather the brethren understanding that all are interessed in the business willbe careful to dischardg their duties, whereas by your fancy the care & chardg being cast upon the Elders & from the brethren, they may wholly neglect the matter, & the Church grow corrupt through the Elders partiality negligence, or other sinister respect: & for confusion: it is not intended as you grossly imagine that all should speak, but that all should consent: For as in prayer one speaketh & all the Church consent: So in public admonition & excommunication one speaketh at once & the rest consent: & if any man have any thing to say he may speak, & the first hold his peace, as, in Prophecy so in admonition by proportion, 1. Cor. 14.30. & yet the Lords o●der not be violated. & if pride & thereupon contentions do arise it is through the corruption of men, not through the ordinance of God, & may there not much more pride grow in the Elders think you when they are absolute Lords (as it were) over the people? & will not that breed much more contention? And to contend for the truth is good and warrantable, yea & contentions must be in the true church, but woe be to those by whom they come. Secondly, you say the whole Church cannot speak jointly, nor severally, one by one except women & children speak: I deny it: the whole Church may speak jointly as in prayer & prophesying, 1. Cor. 11.4. So also in admonition & excommunication, by some persons deputed thereto either Elders if there be any, or other if there be no Elders: & for the speaking of women in the Church I say it needeth not: for they, & so all the brethren may speak by silence: or if any dissent they may speak either woman or youth, & yet the rule of the Apostle not violated, who forbiddeth women to lead the action of worship in prayer or prophecy, or praising God, or any action of Government in the presence of men: but he doth not forbid a woman to speak when she is called thereto, in matter of Government: neither doth the Apostle intent to forbid women to pray or prophecy in the presence of women only, as sometime the occasion may be ministered if the church consist only of women: that this is so you shall perceive by comparing these places, 1. Cor. 14.34. 1. Tim. 2.12, & considering the reasons of the Apostles prohibition: but let us see the force of your argument. If tell it to the Church be tell it to the body of the Church: then every member of the Church must speak in rebuking the party. But every member must not speak in rebuking the party that is promoted to the Church for sin. Therefore tell it to the Church is not tell it to the body of the Church, & so it must needs be tell it to the Elders. I deny your consequent, for all may hear, take notice give consent, & speak if they see just cause orderly, & yet it followeth not that all are bound to speak vocaly one by one: For silence is a sufficient testification of consent: Further I say your minor is weak: For every one is bound to speak that seethe just cause or else he shall there by strangle his conscience, and quench the Spirit, and suffer sin which he cannot do without sin. Lastly, Christ crosseth not himself, in giving power to two or three: For he may give power to two or three if there be no more, & yet to twenty, an hundredth, a thousand, if there be so many: but you Mr. Bern, raise up false expositions, & wrack the text to support heresies, thereby making the Scriptures a leaden rule to frame to your crooked conceits, & a nose of wax to be wrung which way your perverse apprehensions incline. Your sixth reason that tell the Church is tell the Governors is this: that else the Corinthians offended who were all commanded to deal with the incestuous Corinth. & yet some only did so: & Paul should sin who upon the advertisement of Cloes house, did not wait for the church's consent, but himself alone determined the matter, & wills them to exente his sentemcein the open congregation. I answer: all the Corinth's did deal with the incestuous person though many spoke the rest giving consent to their speeches: & therefore there can no more sin lie upon than for not rebuking by voice, than there lieth sin upon the whole Church, for not lifting up their voice to speak in prayer & prophecy, being all commanded so to do: besides all might speak: for many sometime signifieth all, as I have already showed: but this is but idle stuff which you object. Furthermore Paul was an Apostle having power & infallibility to plant & direct & reform Churches, & will you from hence fetch a rule for the perpetual government of the Church? it followeth not Paul did thus: go, one Prelate may do thus▪ nay by your own exposition there must needs be two or three Prelates: but what did Paul? did he perform the whole decree of excommunication? I deny it utterly: but the Apostles meaning is that he for his part gave his voice, & advise, & commandment (as having rece●ved grace to be faithful) that the incestuous person should be excommunicate: & note it well Mr. Ber. Paul doth bid the Elders (as you say) excommunicate him: can these things agree? I believe your wit was wandering when you wrote these things: for you avouched out of the 2. Cor. 2.6. that many Elders did excommunicate the incestuous person: & now you say that Paul at the information of Cloes Family, like a Lord Bb. decrees the sentence of excommunication in his court, & commandeth them to pronounce it: you gave this power of late to the Elders, & now you take it from the Elders, & give it to Paul, & make the Elders only his deputies▪ but I will show you the reason of this your oversight & contradiction: you had by you in your study when you penned your book, the writings of the Reformists, & the writings of the Prelates: & being in wrath & choler enraged against us of the Separation, you thought to make Herod & Pilate friends against Christ, & have gathered both the Prelates & Reformists objections against us & put them down in your book without judgement, & so through the weakness of your understanding not discerning the reasons of the Reformists & Prelates to contradict, because they fitted you against us, you not regarding the truth but the victory, have fallen into this gross contradiction which your learning can never salve: only your repentance & confession can cure it. Your last reason that tell the Church is tell the Elders is this: for that all reformed churches judge so: well: yet you said even now that tell the Church is tell the Apostle Paul, & the Lord Bb. by consequent his successors: are you in your right mind Mr. Ber. that stumble thus? but you see what it is to resist the truth. But what if all the reformed Churches say so: is it so? if the Scripture say contrary it is not so: & the Churches must be reform yet further according to the Scriptures. Finally, you prove that figuratively the part may carry the name of the whole: who denieth it? & that therefore the Elders are called the Church: I deny that. For it followeth not: yet I yield you thus much (which you shall gain nothing by) that two or three Elders may be termed a church being severally by themselves, but jointly with the body they are not so: so a Christian family, or rather the Christians in a family may be truly termed a church severally: yet jointly with the body they are not so: For know you Mr. Ber. that the parts of the Church are similares & Homogoncae: as every part of water is water, so every part of a Church, if they be a communion, is a Church being severed necessarily from the whole: you say also that a company without officers no where is called a Church (Christian families only excepted) in all the new Testament except Act. 14, 23. by anticipation. First you must prove unto me Mr. Ber. that this place Act. 14.23. is by anticipation: For doth it follow because heaven & earth are so called by anticipation Gen. 1.1. therefore a company wanting officers are called a Church by anticipation? beside you speak falsely, saying that in all the new testament a company without officers is not called a church: what say you to Act. 19.41. any company of people is called a C●●rch in that place: and whereas you confess that a Christian family is called a Church by the warrant of the new Testament, you yield the cause: For if two or three faithful persons of a family are a Church, than two or three faithful persons of diverse families are a Church: or else show you a found reason to the contrary: hence I reason thus. They which the Scripture call a Church, are a Church. The Scripture calleth two or three believers in a family a Church. Therefore: two or three believers in a family are a Church. Again: If two or three believers of one family are a Church: then two or three believers of diverse families are a Church by proportion. But two or three believers of one family are a Church, by your confession & testimony of the Scripture. Therefore: two or three believers of diverse families are a Church. But know, Mr. Ber. that we strive not about the word, but about the matter: be they Ecclesia, synagogue, Disciples, brethren, Saints, we regard not the word: we say that two or three Disciples, Saints, brethren, are synagogue, Ecclesia, a congregation with whom Christ is present, who have Christ's power, unto whom every member of the body must be promoted for sin, this you neither have disproved, nor ever shallbe able: & here endeth your digression: & now you come unto your sixth reason. Your 6. reason against popularity is a repetition of things already answered in the fifth reason, that Tell the Church is Tell the Governors: Therefore I refer the reader thither. Your 7. reason against popularity is that it is against the commandment of Christ: For Heb. 13.17. 1. Pet. 5.2. the sheep must obey the shepherd, & the flock must depend upon the Pastor: & he is not to obey them or depend upon them. I answer: To the place Heb. 13.17. I say the Apostle doth not intend to teach that the whole body of the Church must yield to the voice of the Elders in every thing that they list: nor that the Eldership hath in their hands the power of Christ to rule contrary to their liking: For the Lord submitteth both Pastors & Flock unto his own laws & will: but the intent of the Apostle is to show that all the particular members in all their affairs must submit themselves to the instruction direction & guidance of the Elders: For although Christ hath placed the Elders as stewards over the Servants, yet he hath not appointed them as Lords over his spouse & wife: your argument therefore is a fallacian a conjunctione & divisione, thus. All the particular members must obey the Elders in their lawful instructions, & their wholesome admonitions severally. Ergo, the whole body must jointly obey the voice of the Elders. Again, the whole Flock consisteth of two parts, Officers, and the Saints: The Saints must obey the Officers, that is one part of the Church must be directed by another, as the foot by the eye: yet the whole body jointly is above any one member or members apart. Further all the Saints shall yield obedience to Elders in things commanded by God, & the Elders shall all of them obey the voice of the church in things commanded by God, but the question is how far the sheep must obey the Elders who are shepherds, & how far the Elders which are the L. Servants must obey the wife & spouse of Christ which is the Church: For know you Mr. Ber. these things may well stand together, that the whole Church may obey the Elders in some things: & the Elders must obey the body of the Church in other things. The other place 1. Pet. 5.2. to en humin: may aswell be translated with all your best ability, as, that dependeth upon you: but I say further that the Flock must depend upon the shepherds, as they are sheep, & as they all jointly are the wife of the lamb the best members must submit to her voice being the voice of her husband & Lord. You eight reason against popularity is this, that it is against common sense that the parents should submit to the Children, the workman to the work, the Seedsman to the corn. I answer, neither is it reason that the whole body should yield to the hand, or the Servant to the Mr. Or the wife to the maid. But you know the Church is a body & the Elders hands & other parts the church is the Mrs. & the Elders are Servants: but comparisons are not to be urged further than their intention: lest we break them in pieces & spoil the proportion: & sometime in some cases the parents may lawfully submit to children, the workmen to the work, & the husbandmen to the corn: For you know that relations chandg arguments. Your ninth & last reason against popularity is, that it is against the dignity & office of true Ministers who represent Christ's person, having their power from him & which none but such as represent Christ can give or take away: But the body of the Church doth not represent Christ's person, nor ever did depose or make Ministers: and because the body of the Church are not Ministers, therefore they cannot make Ministers: & such like rotten stuff. I answer: That the Ministers do represent Christ's person I deny not: but avouch that the Church doth much more represent Christ's person, who is the Spouse & wife of Christ: & that the Ministers have their power from Christ I deny not, but all their power cometh from Christ through the body of the Church as I have sufficiently proved already: That the Church hath made Ministers I have showed, Act. 1. they chose an Apostle when as yet they were not Apostles, they Elected Deacons, Act 6, Now Election is the very essence of a true Minister: The Church admonisheth an Elder, Col. 4.17. & deposeth false Apostles, Reve. 2.2. preacheth, prayeth, & worshippeth wanting Elders, Act. 13.22.23 & whereas you say that Ministers only make Ministers, I answer it is the ground of Succession which I have formerly overthrown: & I say that the body of the Church hath in it all ministerial power immediately from Christ, & your slender stuff hath prevailed nothing against this truths of the Lords: the university may make a Doctor, a Bachelor, a Master, & yet ●t not any such thing, but a compound body having a charter from the King for that purpose: a corporation may make a Major & Sheriffs, & yet the corporation is not a Major or a Sheriff: So the Church may make Ministers, & yet the Church itself is not properly an Elder, or Deacon; or Widow, but a body politic having power to produce such works by verve of the charter which Christ hath given unto it. And thus Mr. Ber. I have done with you for this point: but Mr. Ains. steppeth up with a new kind of Antichristianisme never heard of before: & he teacheth us if we will believe him, that Christ's ruling power is in the Eldership, & that the Pope & Prelates are not Antichrists for taking into their hands the power of the multitude, but the power of Christ. Here in the first place we must remember that the power of Christ which we speak of is a ministerial delegated power given to man: & that the question is who is the first subject of this ministerial power, who receive it immediately from Christ: I say the body of the Church is the first subject of it, & I say that whatsoever the Eldership hath, it hath from Christ through the body of the Church; & by the Church's disposition, & this if you deny Mr. Ains. (which I think you do not) I say you are therein departed from the faith: The body of the Church having all her power from Christ retaineth & keepeth it entire to itself, & doth not so delegate it to any officers, as that she loseth it & is deprived of it: neither doth she delegate any power to her officers, but that which she formerly received from Christ her head, husband & Lord: For Christ giveth not a double ministerial power, one immediately to the body of the Church which she hath & keepeth: another mediately to the Eldership by the Church's disposition which the church hath not at all, but is only a conduit pipe to convey it to the Eldership: if you hold such a matter, declare it unto us out of the word of God & we will receive it when we see it: in the mean time we hold that whatsoever the Elders have, they have it from the Church by delegation: & that the Church hath it in their own hands, & received it from Christ by virtue of the covenant God maketh with it in Christ, giving Christ for King, Priest & Prophet to the Church, & therefore the Church hath from Christ the head all power, & all the members & officers of the Church have all their power from the body, which they hold & use in the body & not Separated from the body: The Elders as it were the hands are conjoined to the Church as to the body: The body of the Church is conjoined to, Christ the head: The body hath no power divided from the head: the hands have no power divided from the body. So a company of men have no power Separated from Christ: an Eldership hath no power Separated from the Church: but as all power floweth from the head to the body, & then to the hands through the body, which is first in the body before it come to the hands: So all power Ecclesiastical or ministerial is derived from Christ to the Church, & then through the Church to the Elders, which is first in the Church before it come to the Elders: And as when the hands are cut of the body still retaineth the power entire though it want hands & the power of the hands is s●●● in the body: So when the Eldership is deposed the Church still retaineth the power of the Eldership, though it want an Eldership: & as the hands can do nothing contrary unto the liking of the whole body, but the actions of the hands are by consent of the body: So the Eldership can do nothing contrary to the liking of the Church: but the actions of the Elders must be by consent of the Church: & as those hands are worthy to be cut of that rebel against the body & wrong it, or endanger it: So are these Elders worthy to be cut of from the Church that rebel against the Church, wrong it, or endanger it. This is the faith which I hold Mr. Ains & if you hold any other faith, it is not the faith of Christ: but let us see what your book will afford us. First, you say: Christ's ruling power, which the papists say is in the pope, we say not is in the body of the congregation the multitude, but in Christ himself: & that the Pope is Antichrist, not for taking into his hands the power of the multitude, but of Christ, to rule & govern the Church as head of the same, confutat. of Mr. Bern. pag. 175. You know Mr. Ains, that the Pope doth not assume that power which Christ as King hath in his own hands reserved to himself: but the pope claimeth to be a ministerial head under Christ, having a Ministerial power given unto him by succession from Peter: & although it cannot be denied, but that he doth many actions which are proper works of Christ's power Monarchical proper to himself, yet that is but the misinterpretation of his ministerial headship, not understanding how far that ministerial headship, which he challengeth, extendeth, & it is not his proper claim to Christ's office: therefore properly the Pope is not Antichrist for challendging Christ's Kingly power proper to himself: but for assuming Christ's Ministerial power delegated to his Church: although I do not deny but the Pope enlargeth the delegated power further than Christ hath prescribed in his word: So that the Pope is Antichrist in two respects. 1. For claiming that power which Christ hath given to the body of the Church, 2. For extending that ministerial power beyond the compass which Christ hath limited in the word. Secondly, you say: Christ's ruling power, which the Protestants say is in the Bbs. the Prelates, we do not say is in the multitude, but in Christ himself, & that the Bbs. are very Antichrists for assuming Spiritual jurisdiction aperteyning to Christ alone, confut. of Mr. Bern. pag. 175. Here also you cannot be ignorant Mr. Ains. that the Prelates do not challendg that Monarchical power which is properly inherent in Christ's person, but renounce it utterly as confidently as you do: but they only challendg that Ministerial power which Christ (as they say) hath delegated to the Apostles & their Successors the L.Bbs. neither can you with any good conscience say that they claim Christ's Kingly power, but only they are Antichrists as the Pope is for two causes. 1. For claiming that power Ministerial which Christ hath given to the body of the Church. 2. For enlarging that ministerial power beyond that compass which Christ in his word hath determined. Thirdly, you say Neither that ruling power of Christ, which the Puritans say is in the presbytery, do we say is in the multitude: For we acknowledge Christ to have ordained a presbytery or Eldership & that in every Church, for to teach & rule them by his own word & laws: unto whom all the multitude, the members, the Saints, aught to obey & submit themselves as the Scriptures teach, confut. of Mr. Bern. pag. 176. We say Christ's ruling power is originally & fundamentally in the body of the Church the multitude: & we acknowledge further that the Elders receive by delegation power from the body of the Church, which power ministerial in the hands of the Elders is not so large as that which is in the body, but it is rather a leading power then a ruling power: neither are the Elders in all the new testament (to my knowledge) called Rulers archontes, but overseers, leaders, Elders, prohistamenoi, whereby the holy Ghost would teach that their power is not to rule, but to lead & direct: I do therefore utterly disclaim this your error Mr. Ains, as one part of Antichristianisme in your Church: but you had need expound it well for the satisfaction of the brethren of the Separation, lest you here in destroy your constitution before you be aware. What we hold concerning the Presbytery I have delivered partly in that which before I have written in answer to Mr. Bern. partly in that which I lately published concerning the differences of the Churches of the Separation in the second part, & the first Section, Chap. 5. & 6. wherefore if you hold that Lordly, usurped, Antichristian power of your Eldership to be that ruling power which the word of God warranteth, it shallbe your part to justify it, & to rebuke all that 'gainst and it, for herein we utterly disclaim your judgement & practice: we maintain that the power of the Eldership is a leading, directing, & overseeing power, ministry, or service, both in the Kingdom & priesthood of the Church, & that the negative voice, the last, definitive, determining sentence is in the body of the Church, whereto the Eldership is bound to yield: & that the Church may do any lawful act without the Elders: but the Elders can do nothing without the approbation of the body, or contrary to the body. The eighth Section. In the next place followeth your second position which is this in your copy. In holding that one sin of one man publicly & obstinately stood in & not reform by a true constituted Church doth so pollute it that none may communicate with it in the holy things of God till the party offending be by the Church put out after lawful conviction: you say is error: I say it is the most comfortable & holy truth we hold in our walking one with another in communion of God's ordinances. This truth ariseth from the former ground, that all the members of the Church have power to the censures of admonition & excommunication, to bind & lose: For (observe I pray you) that every brother is bound to admonish his brother for a fault he observeth in him if he reform not he must take one or two witnesses & admonish him: if he reform not yet, he must bring the matter before the Church, suppose the Church consist of 12. persons as at Ephesus, Act. 19.7. The matter being before the Church the eleven deal with the twelfth, discover his sin, & convince it to his conscience, he refuseth to ●eer them but despiseth the admonitions: I say if they retain him still in communion they consent to his sin: For as the civil Magistrate in pardoning wilful murder consenteth to it, because the murderer should die: Even so the Church suffering the vacant person among them, consent to his sin, and are polluted with it, and consent to all the profanation and violation of the Holy things committed by that unrepentant person: For God hath commanded the church to watch over their brethren, & if they do not they hate their brother in suffering sin to rest upon him: God hath commanded that no unclean person should meddle with the Holy things, if they do they profane & pollute the Holy things offering violence to the Lords ordinances. But it may be you will say that by this means we assume to ourselves a kind of perfection & purity in that we will have no sinners among us: I answer that you must distinguish betwixt our persons & our communion: we confess our persons severally every one of us to be subject to sin, & that we do sin daily: & because of our sinning nature the Lord hath appointed the ordinances of the visible Church as helps & means to subdue this sinning nature of ours, especially these ordinances of admonition & excommunication which are to be used & administered upon all & by all as occasion is offered: Now this is the perfection & purity of our communion that we suffer no unrepented sin, no unrepentant sinner among us, but either we cast out the sin by repentance or the sinner unrepentant by excommunication: that our communion may be pure & holy, & the church without spot or wrinkle: & that we may be a new lump daily unleavened, the leaven being purged out of us continually: oh Mr. Ber. if you knew but the comfort & power of the L. ordinances of admonition & excommunication: as we do (blessed be our good God) in some measure, & that growth & reformation which is in some of us thereby, you would be so wonderfully ravished with the power of God's ordinances, that you would acknowledge the Church to be terrible as an army with banners, & yet amiable & lovely comely & beauteful: in so much as Christ himself saith that the love of the church is fair that she woundeth his heart with one of her eyes, in regard of the beautiful & holy communion which is daily maintained in her by virtue of the censures: but your confused assemblies & all the members of them not only omit, but reject, yea oppose all these holy ordinances which Christ hath given to his Church, & thereby you proclaim to all the world that you are of Belial, that is without the yoke of Christ's ordinances, & you cast away from you these cords & bands wherewith we are bound one to another, & knit faster & faster unto Christ our head: & therefore you living thus without the yoke, out of the Lords Holy order, having broken these bands & cast the cords from you, mingling yourselves unto, & joining with all manner of profane persons that violate all God's ordinances, how can we have any fellowship, communion, agreement, concord or part with you? Answer to this now Master Bernard, and seduce your hearers no longer with vanities. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the eighth Section. Mr. Ber. in his book entitled the Sep. Schism pa. 103. hath these words, viz: that ou● seventh error should be to hold: That the sin of one man publicly & obstinately stood in, being not reform, nor the offender cast out, doth so pollute the whole congregation, that none may communicate with the same in any of the Holy things of God, (though it be a Church rightly constituted) till the party be excommunicated. In this eighth Section the position is thus uttered by you, & by me justified, viz: That one sin of one man publicly and obstinately stood in and not reform by a true constituted Church doth so pollute it, that none may communicate with it in the Holy things of God till the party offending be by the Church put out after lawful conviction. Afterward expounding this truth I say, that if the Church hold this obstinate, impenitent, convicted person in communion they consent to his sin, as the civil magistrate suffering wilful murder consenteth unto it. Mr. Ains. confutat. of Mr. Bern. pag. 178.179. doth first renounce this truth, & denieth it to be either their judgement or practice referring us to the confession of their faith, Art. 26. where their judgement is, that none is to Separate for offences, but by due order to seek redress: & yet afterward affirmeth, that if the Church will not rebuke nor cast out a man obstinate and impenitent in wickedness, but plead for him against such as call upon them for judgement then are all such abettors of the wicked sinner themselves, and that in a high degree: & now not that one man's sin, but the sin of them all polluteth them. Well Mr. Ains. you & I will not differ about this point, for whither it be his sin consented unto by them, or their sin which is a consent & approbation to his sin, or both, I regard not: The truth is the truth, that that one sin polluteth them all by contagion, as the leaven leaveneth the whole lump: & although Mr. Bern. hath not so plainly & directly propounded it as he might, yet let it not be denied for it is the truth he doth chardg us withal, giving a true exposition: & I tell you true Mr. Ains. you deny the truth, if you deny the position: but indeed your denial, & your affirmation contradict. Heer Mr. Bern. for your sake I will perform two things: First I will confirm this truth which we defend against you that join with open known sinners in the communion of your false Church: Secondly, I will refel your cavils against this truth of God, wherein we walk. For the first point I wish you to remember what hath been proved unto you in the former Section, viz, That Christ's ministerial power is given to the body of the Church: which if it be true as it is proved to be the undoubted truth of God, than this second position followeth necessarily thereupon & therefore is to be embraced for the truth of God in like manner: For every consequent necessarily deduced from the Scripture is as well & as truly the word of truth as that which is in plain terms expressed & noted down in number of words. For even as the branches of the tree do as truly proceed from the root as the great grains or body of the tree, & are all of one kind & nature doth root, body, grains, & branches: So a necessary consequent growing by true discourse out of the Scripture is aswell & as truly the word of truth as the position, or doctrine, or sentence is whence it was raised, wherefore I frame an argument from the former ground after this manner. If they that have Christ's ministerial power to reform obstinate convicted sinners, or to excommunicate them: do neither reform them nor cast them out from among them, but suffer them still in communion consenting thereby to their sin: then the persons so suffering & consenting to sin are polluted by contagion of the sin, & impenitent wicked sinner. But it may fall out that a Church true in the constitution having Christ's ministerial power yet afterward declining may neither reform an obstinate convicted, sinner, nor cast him out of their communion, but may suffer him still in communion thereby consenting to his sin. Ergo: a Church truly constituted, having Christ's Ministerial power of reformation or excommunication, suffering and consenting to sin & sinners convinced are polluted by infection of that sin, and of that impenitent obstinate convicted sinner. And so by necessary consequent I conclude after this manner. If a Church truly constituted be all of them polluted by consent as is already declared, than they do violate and profane all the Holy things of God wherein they partake: For to the unclean nothing is clean, as the Apostle testifieth. Tit. 1.15. & the Prophet, Esa. 1.12. But a Church truly constituted may grow to pollution by consenting to obstinate sin & sinners as is already declared. Therefore a Church truly constituted may grow to the violation & manifest profanation of all the Holy things of God. From this evident truth I proceed & reason after this manner. To that Church, company, or communion of men we may not join in Spiritual communion that violateth or profaneth the holy things of God. But a Church truly constituted may grow to the violation & manifest profanation of all the Holy things of God. Ergo, to a Church truly constituted grown to pollute & violate the holy things of God, we are not to join in communion. Thus you see Mr. Ber. the evidence of this truth manifested unto your conscience, if the Lord vouchsafe you mercy to see the truth. Like arguments may be drawn from many places of Scripture: as from Mat. 13.33. compared with 1. Cor. 5.6. an argument may be framed thus. As the whole lump & the feast of the was leavened with a little leaven: so one open known sin polluteth the visible Church, & the holy things thereof: for you must understand that the Apostle doth not call unknown sin leaven: but by leaven he understandeth sin openly known, convinced, & unrepented: else there could be no communion for men on earth. But the Apostle & our Saviour saith out of the law that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump & feast of the . Therefore, one sin convinced & unrepented polluteth the visible church, & the holy things thereof: & thereunto may no man join. Again, from persons ceremonialy polluted, & so defiling the Sanctuary of the Lord, as appeareth Nomb. 19.13.20. Hag. 2.14, I reason thus. As persons ceremonialy polluted unclensed entering into the Sanctuary of the Lord, or meddling with the holy flesh or pottage, did pollute the Sanctuary, & the holy flesh, pottage & the rest: So the visible Church of the new Testament morally polluted & impenitent in sin meddling with the holy things of God pollute & defile the same. But the L. avoucheth by the mouth of his holy Prophets, that persons ceremonialy unclean unclensed, entering unto the Sanctuary, or meddling with holy flesh or pottage, pollute & defile them. Therefore the visible Church of the new testament morally polluted & impenitent in sin dealing with the holy things do profane them: & therefore no man with good conscience can join with that profanation. Finally: as in the old testament the King & Magistrates suffering sin unpunished were polluted therewith by consent: So in the new testament the visible church (who are Kings Spiritualy, & have committed unto them the judgements of the L. the ministerial power of Christ) suffering sin unreformed among them, are polluted thereby. But in the Old Testament the Kings and Magistrates (by your own confession Mr. Bernard pag. 94.) were polluted with sin unreformed in the common wealth. Therefore in the New Testament the visible Church (who are Kings Spiritualy, having committed unto them the judgements of the L. the ministerial power of Christ) suffering sin unreformed among them are polluted thereby: & so no communion to be had with them, lest partaking with them in sin by consent, we receive of their plagues. Now you see evidently proved by testimonies of Scriptures, & by direct consequents from the same, that it is unlawful for any man to join to a Church that was truly constituted, now grown to profane & violate the holy things of God by consenting to sin & wicked, obstinate, convinced, impenitent sinners: & that therefore much more is it unlawful to join to your false churches which never were truly constituted since the defection of Antichrist, but remain in the gulf of Antichristianisme unto this day: the first point therefore being manifest, the second followeth to be enterprised which is to answer the objections & cavils which you make against this comfortable truth of the L. I call it a comfortable truth because herein consisteth the true comfort of churches & Christians publicly & privately: that they neither live in nor consent to any known sin in themselves or other For otherwise seeing sins & corruptions break out daily in the best Churches & Christians, herein is our comfort that we give no allowance to them no not so much as by our presence in that communion where open known sin is suffered, as it is most plentifully and abundantly in your false Churches and in other Churches that are of a true constitution. In your objections against this truth the first thing that I reprove is that you do falsely interpret consent to sin: for a man may consent to sin, though he in judgement, affection, countenance & action do declare his dislike of it as for example: Ely did all this to his sons that polluted the L. Sacrifices, & committed adultery with the women that came to sacrifice, 1. San. 2.22.23. for he should have proceeded to the utmost that the word of God had required at his hands, viz: to have put his sons to death, which because he did not he was polluted with their sins by consent, & therefore the fearful judgement of God befell him which whsooever heard both their ears tingled, 1. Sa. 3.11. so except a man do by all means save himself from the froward generation, by Separating himself as the Apostle practised & counseleth, Act. 2.4. & 19.9. & 2. cor. 6.17. he cannot be free fro the contagion of their sin 〈◊〉 the profanation of all the Holy things of God: For these places do evidently declare th●● Paul & the Apostles not only command to separate from the Gentiles, but from the jews who were the true Church of God now growing obstinate in sin, & so practised themselves commanding the Disciples & training them up by his example so to do: & so teaching us to follow his example herein. In the next place you proceed to declare by diverse reasons (such as they are) that to join to the holy things when obstinate impenitent sinners partake in them is no sin: your first reason is: For that in the old Testament there was no Sacrifice appointed for this: Ergo it is no sin: I deny the antecedent: & I declare the contrary by the examples of the tribe of Bemjamin consenting to the sin of adultery committed upon the Levites concubine, judg. 19 & 20. of the tribes of Israel, fearing lest wrath should fall upon them for suffering their brethren to make another altar, & to forsake the true worship of God as they suspected, josh. 22. & of achan's sin which brought wrath upon the whole congregation. Wherhfore in the law the Lord did appoint a Sacrifice for the whole congregation aswell as for any particular person. Levitt, 4.13. A Second reason of yours is: For that in the Old Testament the Godly are never reproved for being present at the ministration of holy things though wicked men were present: but the Prophets reprove the Priests only for not Separating the clean from the unclean. whereto I answer that their communion was typical, & therefore persons typically clean though wicked in their lives might come to Sacrifice, & yet not pollute others as I have already sufficiently declared in the former Section: beside whereas the Prophets reprove the Priests, & the Saints in the new Testament succeed the carnal Priests as Spiritual Priests, thereby it followeth that the Saints in the new Testament are polluted by not distinguishing & separating the clean from the unclean: see these places of Scripture, Ezech. 22.26. compared with Revel. 1.6. & 11.1. Jude us. 23.2. Cor. 6.17. But still some may object, that in the old Testament they did pray, & preach, & praise God, & yet notwithstanding the faithful herein were not defiled if the wicked did join with them in communion thereof: & therefore now under the new Testament, though men do join in communion with open known sin, & suffer known sin yet may be saints, & unpolluted in communion: & this is the very pith & warrow of your second abjection Mr. Bern. whereto I make answer many ways. First▪ I deny him to be a Saint or that he ought to be esteemed a Saint of us, that is impenitent in any known sin: Known I say to him: For I may know it to be a sin, & yet because he knoweth it not so to be, he cannot be accounted impenitent though he live in it: sith ignorance is a sin whereof a man repenteth generally, & so in his general repentance of sins done of ignorance that particular sin is included. Secondly, I am to judge of another according to that which I know & according to the rule of the word therein: wherefore if i know any of my brethren to live in any sin known to me: I must admonish him & prove it to him to be sin, & require his repentance: if he repent not to take withnesses & then to admonish him before withnesses, & so to convince it again to his conscience, if he repent not, then to tell it to the Church, where also he is to be admonished & convinced openly: if then he repent not, to me he is a Heathen & Publican, & no Saint: what he is in the L. account, & to himself in secret I know not, nor regard, for it aperteyneth not to me. Lastly, for the consequence of the argument, viz: That seeing in the Old Testament the faithful were not defiled joining in prayer, preaching & praising God with open known sinners, therefore we in the New Testament so doing are not defiled, I deny utterly: yea and I deny the Antecedent in some sense also: It shall not be unprofitable therefore fully to discussce both the Antecedent, and the consequence of this Objection. The Antecedent is thus to be expounded & conceived of, namely. That the L. required one thing outwardly in the communion of the Church, another thing inwardly in the heart for acceptation before God. If any circumcised Israelite or proselyte cleansed according to the purification of the Sanctuary did join in prayer, preaching & praising God, no man could justly refuse his outward communion in these actions seeing he was outwardly clean according to the dispensation of those times: For us in the new Testament there are required other visible actions for our outward cleansing, which were not then required of the carnal Israelites for their outward cleansing: if they did declare their inward repentance by Sacrifices for their sins general & Special, by cleansing themselves with those rites & ceremonies which were appointed by the Lord for those infant times of the Church, they were to be judged holy by all men, & so communion might be had with them without sin: but if they were not cleansed according to the purification of the Sanctuary, they were not visibly clean, & therefore communion could not be had with them without sin, & so Hezechiahs' prayer importeth, 2. Chron. 30. 18-●●. & the Prophets declare plainly, Nomb. 19.31.20. Hag. 2.14. yet here also cautions must be remembered, viz: That this ceremonial uncleaneness must be made known unto others, for otherwise how could it pollute others if it were unknown to them: Furthermore it cannot be denied, but that the Sons of Belial very vild wicked men did deal with the holy things in the old Testament, but yet I say it cannot be proved but they were visibly clean according to the dispensation of those times: the Lord did not then require men to proceed with their brethren in the three degrees of admonition, & so to bring them to the acknowledgement of their sin & repentance. That is the Lords dispensation for the new Testament: But the L. order for those times was 1. reproof for sin, Levit. 19.17. 2. The party reproved was to offer a Sacrifice which if he did he was cleansed from his sin visibly, Levit. 4.23. 3. If he wilfully refused to hearken he was to be promoted to the Magistrate, & put to death for his presumption, Levit. 15.30.31. Deut. 17.12. This was the L. economy for those times when this order was violated, than all communion was defiled, whiles it was observed all was well in the visible communion: Let any man declare the contrary if he be able: briefly therefore to make a full answer to the objection: if the faithful did keep communion with persons visibly unclean, (according to the uncleaneness of the old Testament,) known unto them, I say they were polluted with their uncleaneness by consenting thereto, & to the violation of the Lords order appointed for those times: if men were the children of Belial, & yet were cleansed according to the dispensation of the Old Testament, their visible cleansing did entitle them to the ordinances of the old Testament before men, though before God their consciences were impure: wherefore both the Antecedent & consequent of the argument are weak and unsound: & so this truth of God remaineth firm, that impenitency in sin defileth the communion of the visible Church, as in the old Testament, Your third reason is for that the Prophets did not Separate who did know the meaning of the L. for this thing, nor taught not the people so to do: I answer as in the new Testament so in the old there ought not to be Separation till the utmost means be sought for redress of things: The utmost means for reforming abuses in the Old Testament was the Magistrate's authority, in whose hands the power of reforming was: Hence it is that the Prophets always reprove the Kings for the wickedness of the Land: but the Lord did never teach (because he thought it not meet, there being but one true Church) that when the King neglected his duty the people should forsake the Holy things of God & Separate, but still they ought to depend upon the Lord for redress of things: but now in the New Testament the Lords administration in this particular is otherwise, 1. Visible Churches may be infinite, & so there is a possibility of enjoying the Lords ordinances though a man forsake the communion of one Church, 2. the fullness of time being come, & the nonage of the Church being past, the Lord hath now revealed his whole will & pleasure, & hath set us at liberty, whereas in the old Testament they were in bondage under worldly ordinances, 3. The Saints now in the new Testament are answerable to the Kings in the old Testament having power Ecclesiastical in their hands (but not civil) to reform the abuses that arise in the visible Church, 4. Therefore we are in the new Tament to use all means appointed by the Lord for reformation before we Separate, all the means I say whatsoever: If then there be no reformation what then? I answer Separation is then lawful: why? The reasons are these 1. The visible Church cealeth to be a time Church being obstinate in sin, & from a false Church Separation is lawful, 2. the Lord hath commanded to come out ●●om among persons obstinate in sin, & so the Apostles practised. 2. Cor. 6.17. Act. 19.9. & 2.40. 3. because the Lord hath said that if we partake with them in their sins, we shall receive of their plagues, 4. because if but two or three faithful ones being Separated join together, they are a true Church unto Christ where the Lords presence & acceptance is: But in the Old Testament they were necessarily tied, to the Kingdom, priesthood, & Temple for the worship & obedience of God, but now in the New Testament all things are free, & the bondage is gone: Mr. Bern. I would have you note this well & lay it up in your heart for your instruction & reformation, for in this particular I know you all that fear God in the land are scandalised from the truth, not understanding the difference between the New Testament & the ordinances thereof, & the Old Testament with the ordinances thereof: Summarily therefore to deliver the truth: The Church, Ministry, Worship, & Government of the Old Testament were so constituted by the Lord as that no Separation could be made from them seeing they were all by Succession & the people therefore were necessarily bound over unto them, otherwise they could not find the Lord & his truth which was only at jerusalem: in the New Testament, the Church, Ministry, Worship & Government are so constituted by the Lord, as that in them there is no Succession nor alligation of time, place, person, etc. But when the Church is become false by impenitency, the faithful may Separate & carry the truth with them if but two or three. Mr. Bern. the L, open your eyes, & the eyes of all his people in England to see this blessed truth of the Lord: & then the cause of Separation willbe evident unto your consciences in the mean time you cannot but be ignorant. A south reason whereby you would prove that to join to the Holy things in the communion of obstinate impenitent persons is no sin, is, for that the Scripture teacheth the contrary (as you say) two ways, 1. by acquitying the Godly from the transgression of others, 2. by declaring it to be a sin to leave the Holy things of God, for the wickedness of others: & this you say cutteth deeply. I answer you Mr. Ber. that we do not feel this cut at all, for the iron is blunt, & you had need put to more strength, & your reason hath in it no cutting quality at all: For I do acknowledge that the Godly, if they consent not to, nor approve not the sin of others, are by the Lords sentence acquit from the transgression. but I would learn of you, if the Holy Ghost in the Scripture doth not account the principal & the accessary in the lame condition though not in the same degree of sin: what say you to the sin of Achan? the sin of the men of Gibean concerning the Levites concubine? The fear of the Israelites in respect of the Altar built in the border of the Land of Canaan by Iorden? These places are evident, that consent to sin polluteth the person consenting: & the places by you quoted do not prove any thing contrary to this assertion of ours: but rather they prove this undoubted truth of the Lords: the place Ezech. 33.9. proveth that as the watchman that dischargeth his duty is acquit, so if he discharge not his duty he shallbe accessary to the sin, & partaker of the punishment as may be seen, us. 6. the place Ezech. 18.14.17.20. doth declare two things, that if the child follow not the sin of the parents he shallbe guiltless: if he partake in their sins he shallbe partaker of the. punishment the place Ezech. 14.18.20 showeth that Noah, Daniel, & job shall deliver their own souls by their righteousness: but all those that are polluted with other men's sins shall partake of their plagues, Revel. 18.4. So that you see these places of the old testament quoted by you do not only not help you, but utterly overthrow your conceit. The places of the new Testament alleged by you also make as little for you. Tit. 1.15. teacheth that all thing are pure to the pure, yet the intent of the place is not to show that sin is pure to any man: & although I may lawfully use the Holy things of God being myself clean: yet being partaker of another man's sin by consent, I pollute all the holy things to myself, & have no title to use them, & so the Apostle saith presently to the impure is nothing pure: the place Revel. 3.4. teacheth that so many of the Church at Sardi as defiled not their garments by consenting to the pollution of the rest of that Church, but that stood out against their corruptions to the utmost, shallbe innocent: & the other place, Revel. 2 22-24. showeth the same thing: but for these two places I say: you must prove Mr. Ber. that your assemblies are true churches as these were: again, you must prove also that these persons neglected their duty of admonishing & standing forth against the Church: & that the church was convinced by them & yet did join with them in communion of Holy things: For otherwise we say we are not to Separate till we have done our utmost endeavour: neither are we polluted till then: your last place is Gal. 5.10. where the Apostle teacheth that he that troubleth the Galatians shall bear his condemnation whosoever he be: & yet the Apostle telleth them us. 9 that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump: that is to say: if you consent to this false doctrine of joining circumcision to Christ the person that persuadeth you shall bear his burden whosoever he be, yet you also shallbe punished receiving the false doctrine, but I hope otherwise of you: this is the meaning of the Apostle. Secondly, you say the Scripture teacheth it to be a sin for to leave the holy things of God, for the wickedness of other, & for this purposes you allege, 1. Sam. 2.24.17. where (you say) the words are plain, & cannot be avoided by another exposition of the word gnabarwell: although the word doth as properly signify to pass upon or to pass by as to trespass, & that it is so expounded by Pagnin: yet I will not plead it at this time sith it needeth not: Therefore take the place according to your construction that the Sons of Ely by their sins caused the people to sin by abhorring the L. offering through occasion of their wickedness: I answer thus: in the old Testament no man was to forsake the Sacrifices for other men's sins if they were ceremonialy clean: & therefore that the people did abhor these ordinances of God upon the wickedness of Elyes Sons was their transgression: the L. taught no such thing in the old Testament & in the typical communion thereof: but now in the new Testament we having the truth that was then signified by the old Testament & the ordinances thereof, it followeth necessarily thus: that as in the old Testament & the communion thereof which were typical, persons typically clean might not have communion typical, with persons typically unclean, without pollution ceremonial: So in the new Testament & the communion thereof which is the truth, persons moraly clean may not have Spiritual communion with persons moraly unclean without pollution moral which is sin: & so you are answered according to your exposition of the place: yet I deny it to be necessary to expound the place so as you do. Your fifth reason proving it lawful for the Saints to hold communion in the holy things though persons obstinate in sin be present is: For that in the word we have liberty given to come to partake in the holy things if we look to ourselves to reform our own ways, mat. 5.23.24. 1. Cor. 11.28. & the Corinth's did partake in the holy things with them that were once & twice admonished, 2. Cor. 12.21. go: so may we do. I answer. The place of Christ Mat. 5.23.24. teacheth that a man must first reconcile himself to his brother before he offer his gift: truth: but it must be for all the sins he committeth against his brother: now to hate his brother by suffering sin to rest upon him & not to admonish & bring him to repentance, is a grievous sin of one man against his brother, & so it is a very grievous hatred for a man to suffer the whole Church unreformed from sin, & therefore by this place or Christ you gain nothing, but rather lose the cause which is hereby confirmed, viz: that till a man do his duty to the utmost to his brethren, he cannot offer his gift: now his utmost duty is, either to bring him to repentance, or to leave him impenitent, & all them that justify his sin in their impenitency & so in the violation of the holy things: For they being all polluted with his sin have deprived themselves of title & power to the holy things, & so using them do violate them, & all that partake with them therein partake with sin, & shall receive of their judgements. The place 1. Cor. 11.28. is also against you: For the Apostle willeth the Corinth's to examine themselves how they have performed their duty to God, & their brethren, in the first & second table: & finding themselves to be clear then to eat & drink: otherwise finding ourselves to fail in that commandment, Mat. 14. 15-17. we are polluted by contagion & cannot eat & drink without hurt & judgement, because we have not judged ourselves aright. But your last place Mr. Ber. is something to the purpose: viz. 2. Cor. 12.21. & 13.1.2. compared together, for I will help to urge your argument, & then give you an answer. Your argument may thus be framed. If the Corinth's might without sin have communion with the Church, of the Corinth's after they were once & twice admonished, & did not repent: then may we have communion, with persons obstinate & impenitent, in the holy things without sin in us. But the Corinth's had communion with the Church of Corinth polluted with sin after once & twice admonition, without sin. Ergo: we may have communion, with persons obstinate in sin, in the holy things without sin in us. This is the force of your reason: whereto I answer, that you must prove your minor: For it is weak: & the places of Scripture do not confirm it: For you must know that the latter Epistle to the Corinth's was the second admonition as may be seen, 2. Cor. 13.2 & before the despising of the second admonition they could not be judged obstinate & impenitent in sin: now for the full & sufficient confirmation of your minor you should prove unto us two things: First, that the Corinth's did despise Paul's second admonition in this his second Epistle: Secondly that if they did despise this his second admonition, the faithful among the Corinth's did keep communion without sin with that polluted & obstinately impenirent company: now because I know this is to hard a task for you, I will therefore conclude that this argument of yours is insufficient to prove your purpose. Your last & least reason whereby you endeavour to prove it lawful to use the holy things though obstinate impenitent sinners be present in communion, is, that God's commandment must be obeyed absolutely, & another man's sin cannot dissolve the bond of allegiance betwixt God & man, which our position seemeth (as you pretend) to dissolve: seeing we say that a man must not keep communion in the holy things if wicked men be present in communion with us: To this argument I answer thus: viz: that God indeed commandeth us to pray, hear the word, & communicate in the Sacraments, but he also prescribeth both the persons wherewith, & the manner how we must perform these actions: prayer, hearing the word & partaking in the Sacraments are actions of communion, & there is in the preformance of them a manner of doing (modus agendi) to be observed: we must therefore respect two things in performing these actions of Religion: First that our communion be such as it ought to be, for I may not keep communion with jews, Turks, Pagans, Papists, but with Christians, viz: true Christians such as the new Testament describeth aught to be members of the visible Church which is the mystical body of Christ: Secondly, that the actions of our communion be performed after that holy manner & order as the new Testament of Christ teacheth: as that prayer be conceived not read out of a service book, that prophecy come out of the heart, & not be read out of a book as Homilies be: that baptism be administered simply as Christ teacheth without Godfathers, the cross, questions to infants: & that the L. Supper be used sitting not kneeling. finally, that all the parts of worship be cleansed according to the primitive institution, & not used with those pollutions which the man of sin hath cast upon them: briefly, we must worship God with the means he hath appointed as the 2. commandment teacheth, & after the manner he hath taught as the third commandment informeth, otherwise there is idolatry committed in violating the second commandment worshipping God by other means than he hath ordained: & profanation of the name of God in violating the third commandment when his ordinances are not so used as he hath prescribed: So that to speak directly to your objection, the bond of allegiance betwixt God & us is preserved & kept inviolable by our position: for we teach that men must pray, hear the word, & receive the Sacraments, but in a true visible communion of Sains as the Lord hath appointed, not with all manner of persons, as thieves, murderer's, witches, conjurers, Papists, Atheists, Drunkards, perjured, persons, etc. as in your Church: nor after your manner which is devised by man as jeroboam devised in Israel: but as the Lord hath in the new Testament taught unto us. And here Mr. Bern. you take upon you to reduce the places of Scripture which we allege for Separation from your assemblies to certain topical or categorical heads, & so give them answer according to your fashion: as thus: the places that forewarn God's people to Separate under the law are thus to be taken: 1. From idols of false Gods: as Israel from heathenish Gods. 2. From Idols of the true God as Indah from Israel's calves. 4. From persons ceremonially polluted. The places urging Separation under the Gospel are thus to be taken 1. From Jews not receiving Christ, but railing against him. 2. From Gentiles without Christ. 3. From Antichrist under the show of Christ persecuting Christians. 4. From familiar companying with excommunicates or wicked men. But (say you) what are all these places to us who are not under any of these heads of reference? I answer you Mr. Ber. that your Church is respectively under all these topical places which you mention excepting the first, For 1. you make Idols of the true God, in setting up your own inventions, & making Christ a King, Priest, & Prophet, as you jmagine 2. you ought much more to Separate from persons morally unclean, if the Jews aught to Separate from persons ceremonialy unclean, 3. if the Apostles command Separation from the jews members of that true Church of the old Testament, refusing Christ & railing against him: Then much more ought we to Separate from you the members of false Churches, refusing & persecuting Christ in his members & new. Testament unto death: as they have felt, 4. if Antichristims & Gentiles be in degree equal (as they are in the Holy Ghosts account as I have formerly proved) them from you who are Antichristians & visible members of false Churches ought Separation to be made, 5. although you are not excommunicate from the true Church whereof you never were, yet you entertain excommunicates from true Churches, & you are cages of every unclean & hateful bird: & if I must avoid private familiar communion with excommunicate & wicked persons then much more must I shun Spiritual holy communion with them: except any man willbe so ridiculous as to say that the Ho●y & Spiritual communion afordeth more liberty to sin & sinners then private civil communion in meat & drink: etc. & so by your own: confession all the places of Scripture alleged against you by us, may by just & due proportion be applied upon you, being as you stand in your constitution & worship, false Churches, & false worshippers, & persecutors of Christ his truth & faithful witnesses. To end all: you say that it cannot be proved that it is sin to hear the word preached & to receive the Sacraments of one that hath converted him, & is called of the church, well Mr. Bern. I understand your drift, & I will give you an answer: I say in your assemblies men do not convert to the true visiole faith of Christ taught in his word, viz: in the new Testament: nor you ever converted man thereto, but pervert men from it, as this book of yours & all your railings against our testimony do plainly evince: what you do invisibly the Lord knoweth, & every man's own conscience can speak that feeleth: but what say you of the Popish preachers do you think they convert none invisibly? & what do you gain by this fancy? neither they nor you convert to the faith or new Testament of Christ, but they pervert men from you, & you pervert men from the Separation: & both hinder & draw from the truth: what you do invisibly I seek not nor ought not to respect for visible walking: yet know that we hold that there are 7000. that are of the Lords Election in your false Churches: So are there in Rome itself. Revel. 18.4. whence did all the worthy witnesses of Christ arise, as the waldenses, Hus, Prage, Luther, the Martyrs in Q. Mary's days in England, & at other times in other places? did they not come out of the bottomless pit of Antichristianisme being converted there? yet I hope you will not say that they might still join to that ministry: & yet the ministers than had the calling of that church, such as it was: if therefore the argument be not good for them no more is it for you: for you willbe proved to be Antichristian Ministers as truly in quality, though not as much in quantity as they are: & this shall suffice for answer to this point. The ninth Section. Your next point whereto I will speak is the sixth in number: which you hold error, but I hold as a truth if it be well conceived: it is this. 6. That the word truly preached & Sacraments rightly administered are no infallible tokens of a true Church. I am sure you do or may remember that proprium cum specie convertitur as the Logicians speak: For example: Every man is reasonabl● & every reasonable creature is a man: Now all I say is: that the word truly preached, & the Sacraments duly administered are no properties of a true church: For although this be true, that wheresoever the word is truly preached ex officio, & the Sacraments rightly administered, there is a true Church, yet I deny the other, viz: That whensoever there is a true Church. the word is truly preached, & the Sacraments are rightly administered: For these two are not convertible: but this I hold that a true Church, & power to preach the word truly, and administer the Sacraments duly, are convertible: and therefore that the power of our Lord jesus Christ given to the Church is an essential property of a true Church, and therefore convertible with a true Church: Now sometime it falleth out that a true Church hath not the word ministerially preached, nor the Sacraments administered, namely, when it wanteth Officers, as it sometime falleth out: This point also is plain enough if you have not fit your Logic: & therefore I leave it requiring your answer. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the ninth Section. I cannot find in all Mr. Bern. book entitled the Sep Schism, any thing in opposition to this Section of my let unto him, whereby I collect that he yieldeth it as a truth: & it is not material to the point of Separation any thing at all: only the truth must be defended for the Author of truth's sake that the Lord & his truth may in all things be honoured: the sum of all this Section is thus much: that as not the act of reasoning is the true property of a man, but the faculty to reason: Non ratiocinari sed rationale: So not the actual preaching & administering of the Sacraments, but the power of Christ to have & use all the holy things of God is the true property convertible, & in fallible token of a true Church: For as every man although he be reasonable, yet doth not actually use reason at all times, as namely, being an infant, being a sleep, being in a Lethargy or sincope So the true Church though it have always power to all the holy things, yet actually it doth not use the power: But I list not to speak much concerning this particular which is more Scholastical than profitable, the rather seeing Mr. Bernard contendeth not about it. The tenth Section. The next position is according to your order the twelfth, viz: That every of our assemblies are false churches, all our ministers false ministers, our worship a false worship: you call this en or, I cannot believe you: wherefore I declare them unto you particularly in order after this manner. But because your Words seem to import that you do not defend all your assemblies to be true Churches, all your Ministers true Ministers, & the worship of every assembly to be a true worship, for that I guess by your covenant you exclude dumb Ministers, & the assemblies over which they are, & the worship offered up by them: Therefore I will only plead against your parish Church at worksap, and your own ministery, and the worship offered up by you for your people in the parish Church at worksap. First, for your assembly I use this reason to prove it no true Church: where the people are not Holy, Elect, & faithful, having not entered covenant to walk in all God's ways, standing in confusion with every abominable liver subject to all the Antichristian orders & officers set over them, deprived of the power of Christ for their mutual help & edification, there is no true Church. But the parish assembly of worksap is such go, it is no true Church. The Major is manifest by these Scriptures compared together, Math. 15.9. Apocal. 14. 9-11. Ephes. 1.1.4. 2. Corinth. 6. 14-18. Math. 28.20. & 5.19. Apocal. 18.4. Math. 5.24. The Minor you dare not deny I assure myself: For you have at least five or six hundredth communicants, & you account not past 30. or 40. of them faithful: & all of you submit to Antichrist his laws & courts daily: especially yourself who cap & knee run & ride after antichrist's officers & courts seeing him with your money: yea you plead for them & write your penny pamphlets for them, and yet once yond wrote against them, and lost your vicaridg in your testimony against them, but because you could not buy and sell except you received the mark of the beast, now you are content to yield to all, yea & to plead for all, that you may traffic with your merchandise. Secondly, for yourself I hold you to be no true minister of Christ: For your Church being false, how can your ministery be true: For if the Fountain be bitter the stream can not be sweet: your Church is false, your ministery which ariseth out of your Church as astreame from a Fountain is false also. Thirdly, your worship which cometh from a false Church, & a false ministery cannot be true: but is false in that double respect, but particularly I except these things against your worship. 1. That it is qualified with your false ministery. 2. That it is offered up in a false Church. 3. That it is offered up to God in the behalf of all your people which are many of them (I presume) lewd persons, all of them subjects of antichrist's Kingdom: this I except against your conceived prayers. Against your service book I except thus besides the former. 1. It is devised & invented by the man of sin. 2. That it is imposed upon you & your people of necessity. 3. That it is stinted & limited & the Spirit thereby quenched. 4. That it is read upon a book. 5. That it is corrupt in all the particular errors objected by the Puritans. All these 8 particulars are contrary to these Scriptures compared together, Roman. 8.26. Math. 15.9. Apocal. 5.8. & 8.3. 1. Thessal. 5.19. Apocal. 9.20. & 16.13.14. Act. 16.18. & 19. 13-16. Math. 24. 23-26. 1. Corinth. 12.7. and 2.4. and 14.15.26. jerem. 23.16 Deut. 13.3. Col. 3.16. jam. 5.13. joh. 4.24. Mr. Ber. I would not have you pass by these things lightly but weigh them well and let us have your answer unto them. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the tenth Section. This Section consisteth of three main branches which Mr. Bern. handleth from pag. 109. to the 150. of his book called the Sep. Schis. Here therefore I must endeavour two things: First, to prove by undeniable arguments drawn from the Scriptures that 1. the assemblies Ecclesiastical of England are false churches, 2. the Ministers administering the holy things to these Ecclesiastical assemblies are false Ministers, 3. the worship performed by the ministry & people in the communion visible to be a false worship: Secondly, Mr. Bern. objections & cavils must be refuted: where the reader must be advertised that in performing this latter part I shall not endeavour to handle all things that Mr. Bernard propoundeth, for there is much truth by him propounded, which I with him consent unto, only the points of difference shallbe discusted, & the rest omitted. In the first place therefore to deal as they say positively Kataskevasticos: I prove that all the Ecclesiastical assemblies of the Land, as they stand established by law are false Churches: that is to say not framed or constituted according to that precedent which Christ hath left for the constituting of the Churches of the new Testament: but are framed according to the invention of man, even that man of sin, Antichrist the Archenemy of Christ. The first Argument from Mat. 3.6. jam. 2.18. Rom. 1.7. 1. Cor. 1.2. Eph. 1.1. Mat. 28.19. From these places of Scripture compared together I collect an argument which may thus be framed. The true Churches of Christ were established of men that did repent & believe, and show their faith by their works, that were Saints & faithful visibly: & of these only. The assemblies Ecclesiastical of England are not established only of such persons: but of all sorts of persons, even the most profane of the Land: being compelled by law to submit thereto. Ergo: the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England are not the true established churches of Christ's institution. Here it may be considered that before the Churches of the new Testament were established the gospel was preached, & upon the publishing of the gospel men were converted to the faith of Christ, being made the Disciples of Christ, & so many of them whither jews or Gentiles as gladly received the word were baptised, & added to the Church, & continued in the Apostles doctrine, & fellowship, & breaking of bread, & prayer: this was the constitution & walking of the Churches of the Apostolic institution: & therefore the Churches of England being raised by compulsion without procedent teaching, & conversion to the faith, & making of them Disciples of Christ, being newly & hardly drawn from the Egipsian darkness of most palpable Antichristianisme, being many of them brutishly ignorant, processed Papists, vild Atheists, witches, conjurers, thieves drunkards, blasphemers, all of them submitted to Antichristian Lords & Laws, to Popish Sacrificing Priests, (for their ministers were not newly ordained) to a stinted devised, corrupted, Popish service book or worship: they in this their constitution & walking cannot be accounted the true established Churches of the Apostolic institution but rather are yet remaining in the gulf of Antichristianisme. The second Argument from 2. Cor. 6.17. Revel. 18.4. Act. 19.9. & 2.40.47. & 5.13. 1. Timoth. 6.5. From these & such like places of Scripture compared together & truly expounded, may be collected an argument framed after this manner. True Churches of the Apostolic institution consisted of a people separated from ●●eleevers, whether jews or pagans or other. The Ecclesiastical assemblies of England consist not of such a Separated people: but are compounded of a mixed people, which for the most part are as bad as jews or Pagans, viz: persons notoriously wicked. Ergo, the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England are not the truly constituted Churches of the Apostolic institution. Here it will nothing avail them to allege as they are accustomed that they are neither jews nor Pagans: For I have already proved that persons that submit to Antichrist & his abominations are in the Lords account equal to Pagans, being called in the book of the Revelation, Egyptians, Sodomites, Babylonians, Gentiles: & the Apostle willeth the Disciples to Separate themselves from brethren walking inordinately from persons excommunicate, from converteous persons, & all other that either teach false doctrine, or deny the power of Godliness indeed, though inword they profess the same. 2. Tim. 3.5. Tit. 1.16. 2. Thes. 3.6. 1. Cor. 5.11. The third Argument from Mat. 28.19.20. Act. 19.4.5. & 10.48. Mat. 18.20. The true Churches of the Apostolic institution were by baptism gathered into the covenant or new Testament of Christ. The Ecclesiastical assemblies of England are not by their baptism conunited into the New Testament of Christ, but only into the constitution, ministry, worship, & government, & into that faith & doctrine which is by law established in the Land. Ergo: the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England are not the true Churches of the Apostolic institution. The ground of this argument is this: that the Apostles baprized men in definitely into the whole new Testament of Christ, & all the ordinances thereof, which was not stinted or limited at the pleasure of men under certain canons, injunctions, articles, or Ecclesiastical constitutions, but was large, even as large as the whole word of truth then inspired or written by the Apostles & Prophets: whereas the assemblies of England do neither themselves profess the true saith of Christ contained in the new Testament, their faith being stinted & limited under certain devised articles & convocation house Synodical decrees or constitutions, whereunto all the ministers of the land are bound to Subscribe & which is the faith of the whole nation: neither therefore do they baptize into the new Testament of Christ indefinitely & simply, but respectively & definitely into that faith & doctrine which is taught in their stinted book of articles, whereto they subscribe which they believe & teach, & whereof the body of that Church is, wherein whereto they are by baptism admitted & received: their faith therefore being devised & stinted, or false: therefore their baptism false: therefore their covenant false: therefore the form of their Church false: & therefore the Church itself a false Church: For how can that be a true Church, which hath a false faith, covenant, form? The fourth argument from Mat. 18. 18-20. Marc. 13.34. joh. 20.23. Mat. 16.19. These places & other like Scriptures afoard an argument which may be framed after this manner. The true Churches of the Apostolic institution had Christ's power ministerial in the body of the Church. The Ecclesiastical assemblies of England have not Christ's ministerial power residing in the body of the Church. Ergo: the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England are not the true Churches of the primitive Apostolic institution. The Major or first part of this Argument hath been largely proved in the seventh Section and in the Parallels, Censures, Observations, thereto aperteyning: whither the Reader is to be referred: where this particular is handled affirmatively and negatively. The Minor or second part of the argument is evident in itself: For the power Ecclesiastical of the assemblies is resident in the hands of certain Archb. Lordb. Archdeacon's, Chancellors, Commissaries, Officials, and other Ecclesiastical Superintendents, which have power over thousands or hundreds of Parish Ecclesiastical assemblies, and the Ministers in them: & which have power Ecclesiastical one over another to suspend excommunicate, and absolve them according to their canons, decrees, and decretals: the Prelate in his diocese or jurisdiction having absolute power to interdict one or more Parish Churches from having any prayers or Service: they have no power to come into the Parish Church, or Temple to worship, whiles the interdiction with the Bbs. seal cleaveth upon the Church door, etc. & diverse particulars of like nature which do evidently declare that the parish assemblies have no power at all of themselves, but are merely and wholly subject and in bondage to the Ecclesiastical Hierarchy, and subordination of Clergymen, having Superintendency, Superiority, & jurisdiction over them as their proper Spiritual LL. to Whom they daily yield Spiritual homage and Subjection in their oaths off Canonical obedience, and actions of like Servitude. The fifth Argument from 1. Timoth. 2.5. Heb. 9.15. Gal. 3.15.16. john. 17.9. These places of holy Scripture & other of like nature may asoard an argument which may thus be framed. The true Church of the primitive institution Apostolical had Christ jesus for their mediator, that is, for their King, Priest, & Prophet. The assemblies Ecclesiastical of England have not jesus Christ for their Mediator, that is their King, Priest, & Prophet. Ergo, the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England are not the true Churches of the primitive institution Apostolical. The Minor or second part of the Argument may be confirmed by diverse particulars, as 1. Christ is not their King, seeing he only ruleth by his own Laws and Officers, and not by Antichristian Lords, and Laws, such as are their Prelates, and the Officers, Courts, and Canons. 2. Christ is not their priest to ratify unto them by his blood that ordinance of Church, Ministry, Worship, and Government which they retain among them, which is not Christ's Testament, but the Testament of Antichrist the utter enemy of Christ: neither doth he prostitute the blood of his Testament to establish such a worship as their service book affoardeth: or such a Ministry as their Clergy is from the ArchP. to the ParishP: or such a Government as their Ecclesiastical Hircarchy: or such a people for his body, as are compounded of the Serpent's seed, a viperous brood of wicked men of all sorts. 3. Christ is not their Prophett to teach them by the false prophets the instruments of Antichrist, which daily by their doctrine set up antichrist's Officers, & Laws, & oppugn the true New Testament of Christ in the true constitution, ministery, Worship, & Government taught in his word: therefore Christ is not their King, Priest, & Prophet, how is he their Mediator? Seeing his mediation consisteth not in the execution & dispensation of these their offices of King, Priest, & Prophet. The sixth Argument from Eph. 1.22.23. 1. Cor. 12.27.12. Gal. 3.16. Eph. 5.23. From these places of Scripture compared together, & truly expounded, may an argument be drawn framed thus. The true Church of the Apostolic primitive institution hath Christ for the head, and is a true body unto the true head Christ, truly united by the Spirit of Christ. The ecclesiastical assemblies of England are not a true body unto Christ the true head truly united by the Spirit of Christ. Ergo, the ecclesiastical assemblies of England are not the true Churches of the primitive Apostolic institution. The Minor or second part of the Argument may thus be confirmed in the three parts thereof, 1. Christ is not their true head seeing they deny all his offices (though they hold the doctrine of his nature and persons sound) as is plainly proved before in the fifth Argument, 2. the assemblies as they stand in confusion with all the ungodly and vicious persons of the Land, under the Antichristian Lords and Laws Ecclesiastical, can not be a true body unto Christ, but is a monstrous body, like unto the body of Nebuchadnetzars' image: Daniel. 2.32. 3. this monstrous body cannot be united to the true head Christ by his Spirit, but the people of the assemblies being for the most part the seed of the Serpent must needs be knit together, and unto their head Antichrist by the Spirit of Antichrist, the Spirit of Satan. All this I speak of their visible communion, and of that politic body Ecclesiastical which is called their Church: For otherwise I do acknowledge unfeignedly, and do undoubtedly believe that the Lord hath his thousands among them, even a remnant according to the Election of grace. Thus have I proved unto you Mr. Bernard positively, that the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England in their present constitution, and walking, are not the true churches of the primitive Apostolic institution, but are in their outward, visible, politic subsistence the churches of Antichrist, framed after the shape of the popish assemblies, though much refined from the venomous dross of popery: now in the second place it remaineth that I deal anaskevasticos with you answering those things which you allege for your Churches to prove them true: The great & main pillar of your building is this, that seeing your Church hath not a false head, false matter, false form, false properties, therefore it is not a false, but a true Church. To these 4. particulars I answer distinctly: First, you have a false head in that you worship God in a fantastical Christ of your own devising, in that you shape him a Kingdom priesthood, & Prophecy of your own invention, making him a mediator & intercestor to all the profane people of the Land, causing him to offer up other worship & worshippers to his Father then he hath taught in his new Testament purchased by his blood: by this means dealing with Christ as sometime the jews did, putting a reed in his hand, a crown of thorns upon his head, & kneeling down unto him as to a King, & bidding him prophecy, & yet smite him upon the face, spit at him & presently crucify him: For whereas you frame him a Kingdom, Subjects, Officers, Laws, & a government after your own invention, or rather out of the Propes decretals & decrees, hereby you seem to make him a King, but indeed you crucify him again, and tread under foot the blood of the Testament, which he hath purchased & established at so high a rate. Secondly, your church hath a false matter: For seeing you do all this indignity to Christ the head of his true Church, do you think that he will entertain you for the true matter of his Church, the true subjects of his Kingdom, the true members of his body, the faithful Servants of his house, his chaste & true well-beloved Spouse & wife? either you must repent & reform yourselves of all that vild indignity which you offer unto Christ or else he will never receive you for the matter of his Church, the Subjects of his Kingdom, the members of his body, the Servants of his house, his espoused wife: For Christ will not take a wife of fornication, & children of fornication, Hos. 1. he will not have the Servants of Antichrist to be his howsehold Servants, Mat. 6.24. nor will he take the members of an harlot, & make them the members of Christ, 1. Cor. 6.15, & the Subjects of his utter enemy Antichrist, cannot possibly be the true faithful Subjects of Christ's Kingdom. Luk. 19.27. But in the pa. 111-116. of your book you make a distinction of matter, as: No matter True matter, False matter: they are no matter of a church (say you) which do not profess Christ: as jews, Turks, Pagans: They are true matter that profess Christ to be the Son of God, & the Son of Mary, & the only Saviour of man. False matter (say you) is contrary to the true: Further this true matter of the Church (you say) is good & bad: good matter (you say as it seemeth to me) is men walking uprightly in this profession of Christ: bad matter are men walking wickedly: & this you illustrate by the matter of marriage, for she may be a true wife though a bad one, & also by the similitude of subjects to a King, who may be true, though bad ones, breaking his laws: & a true tradesman though unskilful in his profession: & for yourselves you say you are true matter of Christ's church (though not good matter) because you profess Christ truly as is said before: well Mr. Ber. I yield the general distinction of matter, but I deny the particular application of it to yourselves: & I say you are false matter: how therefore do you prove unto us that you are ●●ue matter? by 4. reasons: whereof the first is for that you beleving this foresaid truth you believe the sum of the gospel: I deny it utterly: the sum of the gospel is this, that jesus Christ the Son of God, & the Son of Mary, is the only King, Priest, & Prophet of his Church, governing, Sacrificing, making intercession, & prophesying after that holy manner & according to those rules which he hath prescribed in his Testament: Now to believe truly concerning the person of Christ, & to believe falsely concerning his office as you do, is not to believe the whole gospel, but only a piece of it: So that this is the doctrine alone by which the Apostles did gather a people to make them a Church & disciples of Christ: & the profession hereof admitted men as true matter of a Church: & this only differenceth the true Church from jews, Turks, Pagans, Papists, & all other Antichristians & Heretics, viz: jesus Christ, God and man, King, Priest, & Prophet, & mediator of his own Testament: Therefore your second, third, & fourth reasons fall flat to the ground, the first being underminded as you see: but there is one thing that I wonder at: that you should hold the Papists to be false matter of a Church for holding justification by works, thereby denying Christ's priesthood & hold yourselves to be true matter of the Church denying Christ's Kingdom in the true frame, ministry, worship, & government of his Church: what is not Christ's Kingdom as precious as his priesthood? is it not as horrible impiety to deny Christ's Kingdom, & the ordinances thereof: as to deny his priesthood & the virtue thereof? or is Christ's priesthood more fundamental than his Kingdom? or justification by works more pernicious then to deny Christ to reign as King, & to refuse his regiment? well if the papists be false matter by your own confession for the one, you must needs also be false matter for the other: For I am confident that Christ's Kingdom is as precious an office as his priesthood, even as the Kingdom in the old Testament was as excellent as the priesthood: now Mr. Bern. what is become of the Church seeing your matter is false as you may perceive by this description? & what shall your similes of a bad wife, a bad subject, of a bad artificer help you? you see they vanish away as chaff before the wind: your matter is false & not bad, as appeareth evidently if you will not be blind. To proceed, pag. 116-122. of your book you describe unto us the true form of the Church, inwardly, to be the Spirit, Faith, & Love: & outwardly, the word, profession, & the Sacrament of the L. Supper: & these things (say you) are in your assemblies: Ergo: you conclude your Church hath a true form. I answer: have not the Papists the word preached? do not they make profession & live as strictly as you? do not they communicate in the L. Supper? & so by consequent have Love, Faith, & the Spirit? yet you say they are false Churches, wanting the true form, even so are you although you do all that they do, & much more, (for so you are much bettered in doctrine & use of the Sacrament, but in profession & practice I suppose you are inferior to many of them:) because rejecting Christ in his offices as hath been said especially in his Kingdom, it is impossible in that constitution & communion, you should aright use the word, make profession, & partake in the Sacrament, or have the true visible Love, Faith, & Spirit of Christ: For a false matters uncapable of a true form: & it is impossible that the body of Antichrist should have the true Spirit of Christ, or the true covenant & new Testament of Christ invested upon them: invisibly I hope well & am persuaded of millions among you: but I speak of your visible, politic, body Ecclesiastical in that mixture of persons, & subordination of Ecclesiastical officers, & communion Spiritual in the Holy things, which by Law is established & supported in your Ecclesiastical assemblies. But pag. 121. you bid us note this: what? viz: that corruptions do not hinder men from being a true Church before men, no more than the corruptions of the heart do hinder a man from being an elect one invisibly to the Lord: I suppose because you bid us in the margin of your book note this, that you account it a matter worth noting: and I surely think it a note worth nothing: For although corruptions of matters accidental make not a false Church, yet corruptions essential of matters essential make a false church namely, if the matter be false or the form false: yea I avouch that if a truly constituted Church detected of corruptions accidental, convinced, & impenitent therein, do so continue, they become a false Church as hath been proved already before in the 8. Section: for impenitency inward or outward, maketh a false Christian & Church, inwardly or outwardly, according to due proportion. Furthermore, pag. 122-128. you bring us three true visible properties of your true Church as you say, 1. continuance in the use of the word, Sacraments & prayer, 2. the holding forth of the truth against the enemies thereof, 3. mutual care for the welfare each of other: & all these (you say) you have among you, & so you say you must needs be a true Church. I answer: your matter and form is false, your properties cannot be true: For they arise necessarily from the union of the matter and form, or from the form induced upon the matter: seeing therefore the first is already proved, the latter also must needs follow: but let us examine these things particularly: I deny therefore in the first place that you have well propounded the properties of the true Church: For the first and principal essential property of a true Church is interest and title to all the Holy things, which is extant in diverse particulars as parcels of that general and whole property. therefore a people declaring their faith and repentance by Separating themselves from all uncleaneness, & by resigning themselves wholly to the Lord to become his people, have God for their Father, & Christ for their King, Priest, and Prophett, and so with Christ have title to all the means of Salvation: and this title consisteth in the Word, Sacraments, Censures, Prayers, Alms, and all other parts of Spiritual visible communion whatsoever: even as when the soul is induced upon the matter, viz: when the breath of life is breathed into the nostrils of dust of the Earth. Genes. 2. then there is a man with a reasonable and Religion's Soul: So when a company of faithful people are invested with the New Testament of Christ, then there is in them title to all the holy things of God whatsoever: This is evident by that which I have before manifested in the seventh Section whither the Reader is to be referred: wherefore Mr. Bern. to apply this unto your Church, I avouch that seeing you are a false matter of a Church: and have a false form or covenant induced upon you, as hath been showed before, therefore you have no true title to the means of Salvation, but in usurping the Word, Sacraments, Censures, Prayers, Alms, etc. you therein incur the reproof of the Prophet, saying: Psalm. 50.16. what hast thou to do to declare mine ordinances, that thou shouldest make my covenant into thy mouth, seeing thou hatest to be reform, and hast cast my words behind thee? And as the Prophet speaketh: Esay. 1. 11-18. your worship is iniquity, I cannot bear it, I am weary of it, I hate it: Therefore you may plead as long as you will the Temple of the Lord: the Temple of the Lord: yet I say, until you entertain Christ's true Kingdom, priesthood & Prophecy, you are but usurpers of all that visible communion in the Word, Sacraments, Prayers, etc. which is among you: For it doth not follow that because you have the Word, Sacraments, Censures, prayers, etc. therefore you are a true Church: neither are the using of these, true properties of a true Church: But the title to them is the true property of a true Church: For the Papists and all Antichristians and Heretics use the Word, Sacraments, Censures, prayers, but they are not therefore a true Church, as I know you will confess. But here you wish us again pag. 122. to observe well: Let us here what it is that you wish us to observe well: Namely, the true Word preached, and the true Sacraments administered, are the true properties to a true Church: And that you have those things as you say: well: What is the true word? and what are the true Sacraments: is not the true word the true doctrine of the word? the true doctrine of the New Testament? but you have rejected the whole doctrine of Christ's Kingdom in a manner, and have advanced all that false doctrine of the Antichristian hierarchy, which is taught and commanded by Law to be taught in your Church: And you in your pulpits proclaim all them Heretics or Schismatics, that teach and erect the Church, ministery, Worship, and Government, according to the pattern of Christ his New Testament: And so you have abrogated and disannulled the Word of God by your traditions and Antichristian devises. Again: What are true Sacraments? is the breaking of bread, and drinking of wine performed by any persons, after any manner, or washing with water likewise, true Sacraments? I think you will not say it: it is therefore necessary that there be a concurrence of other matters: viz: That seeing Sacraments are in relation and reference, those references or relations must needs be annexed, else they are not true Sacraments: as a baptised person, must baptise into the true Faith of Christ, a person capable of baptism: A communion of men having title to the Lords Supper must break bread, and drink wine, to remember Christ, and show forth his death till he come: Therefore whereas you hold and teach, that the whole bundle of the Antichristian constitution, ministery, worship, and Government of the assemblies are the Lords ordinances, you teach a false word: and whereas you being a false Church and Ministry, do baptise with water, and break bread & wine to remember a false Christ, and a false Testament, and a false Faith, therein you declare plainly that you have not the true Sacraments: and whereas in your (Observe well) you say, Truly and Rightly, respect grace in administering the Word and Sacraments, and therefore to preach the word Truly, and Rightly to administer the Sacraments, are no convertible signs of a true Church. I answer: That Truly and Rightly to administer; do also respect the outward manner of doing in the Essential relations spoken of before and not only grace: And so your (Observe well) is not worthy observation. In your third essential property, you will needs have discipline no true convertible sign of a true Church: Sir. I confess unto you that the use of the Censures of admonition & excommunication which I suppose you call discipline, is not a convertible sign of a true Church: but only power & title & interest to use them: this title I deny you to have: For how can you being in your constitution mighled with the world, & unseperated, & polluted with so many Antichristian fornications as yet are extant in your assemblies, have title to any of the Lords ordinances: doth the Lord (think you) give his covenant & new Testament, purchased by the blood of Christ unto such persons as trample under foot the whole Testament of Christ, & the ordinances thereof? hath the thief title to the true man's purse though he have the possession of it? no more have you title to Chr. visibly though you usurp him & challendg him never so peremptorily: wherefore to end this point of the properties of the true Church I say till you have Separated yourselves from all the wicked people & Antichristian ordinances in your assemblies, till you have vowed & covenanted to embrace & practise all the ordinances of Christ's new Testament you can have no title or interest to the holy things of God: use them as long as you lift, you abuse them. Lastly, to conclude this first part of the Section, viz: that your Churches are false churches: I say to that which you object, pag. 110. that many corruptions may be in a church, yet it a true Church the constitution being true, viz: So long as they are not impenitent after conviction: & therefore Israel the Lord's people so long as they retained their true constitution, Ezech. 16.21.22. the men of Ephesus believers ignorant of the visible gifts of the Holy Ghost, Act. 14.2. The Corinthians Saints though incest drunkenness, fornication false doctrine, contention, & much evil among them, because they were not impenitent after twice admonition or conviction. & so forth of the rest: but you will confess that the Prelates & their faction are obstinate after conviction: & we avouch that the Puritans are obstinate after conviction, for they neither have answered nor can answer that we object against them: & therefore although you constitution had been true (which was never) yet your Church is become false being obstinate in sin & persecuting to death, imprissonment, loss of goods, etc. all that testify against her abhomin: tions: that this is a sign of a false Church, read, 2. King. 17. & jerem. 3.8. Math. 23.37.38. Math. 21. 33-43. Act. 19.9. The second point to be handled in this Section, is, that all your ministers are false ministers: in handling whereof I will proceed as in the former point of this Section, viz: First, confirm the truth by arguments drawn from the Scriptures: Secondly, refute your fancies whereby you would prove your ministry true. Therefore in the first place to prove your ministers false Ministers, I use these Arguments. The first Argument. The true ministery cannot be raised out of a false Church. The Ecclesiastical assemblies of England are false Churches. Therefore the ministers of those assemblies Ecclesiastical are false ministers. The ground of this argument is propounded & confirmed in the 7. Section, where it hath been proved by diverse undeniable reasons that Christ's ministerial power, whereof one part is the calling of Ministers, is not given by succession to the Pope, Bbs. or presbytery, but to the body of the congregation, if they be but two or three: So that seeing the true Church is in nature & being before the ministry, & the ministery is but one of the holy things given to the Church: one part of Christ's power delegated to the Church: one branch of that true title & interest which the L. jesus the Bridegroom & husband of the Church giveth to the Bride, the Spouse of Christ, the true Church: The ministery therefore must needs follow the Church, be after the Church, be raised out of the church: & therefore the true Ministry of Christ is only where the true Church of Christ is, & so it cannot be in the astemblies Ecclesiastical of England, being not the true Churches of Christ. The second Argument. The true ministery hath a true office, in execution whereof it is exercised: Rom. 12.7 1. Cor. 12.5.28. Fph 4.11. The ministery of the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England have not a true office, in execution whereof it is exercised. Ergo, The ministery of the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England is not the true ministery. The foundation of this argument is this: viz: that seeing the ministery of the Church of England ariseth out of the ministery of the Church of Rome, as a branch out of the root of the tree, therefore it must needs be of the same nature & kind with the ministery of the Church of Rome: For as a man begetteth a man, one light cometh of another, one Priest begetteth another in the old Testament, so in ordination by succession, one Minister maketh another: & therefore, as the branch is of the same nature with the root, the Son with the Father, one candle light with another, one Aaronical Priest with another: So must the minister ordained be of the same nature & office with him that ordaineth him: therefore the ministery of the Church of Rome is a popish Sacrificing priesthood, that is a false ministery, having a false office: it must needs follow that the ministery of the Church of England proceeding from the ministery of the Church of Rome, as one light is inflamed of another, is of the same nature & office, & therefore a false ministery: neither can it suffice to say, that (as it is most true & I do willingly confess) the ministery of England is much Refined & Reform from the dross of popery: For Refine Sugar as long as you will, it is Sugar still in nature: Refine light as oft as you please, from brimstone light to a tallow light, from tallow to Rosen, from Rosen to wax, from wax to Venice Turpentine, from that to the most precious subject that can be devised, yet the light is of the same nature with the brimstone light: So Refine the ministry by Succession of ordination as long & as oft as you will, yet it is still of the first nature: & till it be Refined to nothing, that is, till it be abolished & extinguished, a true ministery can never be raised up again: For who can bring a clean thing out of that which is unclean? The third Argument. The true ministery hath a true vocation & calling, by election, approbation, & ordination of that faithful people where he is to administer. The ministry of the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England, hath not the true vocation & calling, by election, approbation, & ordination of a faithful people where thy do administer. Ergo, the ministry of the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England is not the true ministry which Christ hath placed in his Church. The Major or first part of this argument is evident by these Scriptures compared together, Act. 6. 2-6. and 14.23. 1. Timoth. 3.10. and 4.14. also it is evident by that which was observed, proved, and answered, concerning the seventh Section of this Letter. The Minor or second part of the argument is evident in itself: For it is apparent that the ministry of England is called by Successive ordination made by a Prelate & his chaplain, in his own chapel, with Subscription to the abominations of Antichrist, contained in the 3. articles, with the oath of Canonical obedience to the Antichristian prelacy their Spiritual LL. & jurisdiction, courts, & canons: by giving the holy Ghost, apishly & blasphemously abusing the words of Christ, joh. 20.22.23. giving thereby to the Priest ordained, power to remit & retain sins, which Christ hath given only to the body of the Church, & not to the ministers by Successive ordination, as Sacrificing power was propagated by Genealogy in the old Testament from Priest to Priest: then the priest thus ordained is enforced upon a parish, with the Patron's presentation, & the Lord B. his institution, & the Archdeacon's induction, & his own tolling of a bell, & taking hold of the Ring of the Church do●e contrary to the liking of all the bad men in the parish if he be a reformist, & contrary to all the Puritans in the parish, if he be a Formalist & with the liking of all the goodfellows in the parish if he be a dumbdrincking-swagge ring Priest: & if this be the true vocation of Christ's true Ministers, taught in his Testament, then are the ministers of England true: if not, then is their Ministry false: & for this point I appeal to every good conscience & upright heart in England: if any man be made minister any other way, he is not made according to law, & his ministry is void by law & a mullity in England: & I dispute only against the ministry established by law & if there be any other ministry beside, or contrary to law, which you Mr. Bern. will plead for, let it be described & confirmed by the rules of Christ's Testament, & when we know it, we will then acknowledge it, if the Lord jesus in his new Testament will give approbation unto it: otherwise this we hold for the present concerning the ministry of the assemblies Ecclesiastical of the land. The next point to be handled is the answering of your objections, reasons, & cavils which you bring against this doctrine which we teach, & for the ratefying of your ministry to be true, & I tell you Mr. Bern. you had need bring good ground, or else you & your Fellow ministers willbe found False Prophets, thieves, and Robbers. Math. 7.15. john. 10.1. That which you allege for yourselves is contained from the pag. 128-146. of your book▪ the first point whereof is this that (you say) your ministry is true because you convert Souls: I answer two things, 1. that you convert no man to that true visible faith taught in the new Testament of Christ, whereby man's conversion must be judged: but you do pervert men from it daily: as evident experience teacheth: For your books against the Separation, your preaching & Sermons against the way of the Lord, your conferences & disputations, & persuasions, for men to forsake the truth, & to continue still with you in the communion of your Antichristian abominations, or having forsaken you to return back again into Egypt, these & the like courses of yours most frequent to the best Reformists of the land plainly manifest that you convert none at all to the faith of Christ's new Testament, but you pervert all that you possibly can from the same: Now what you do in secret betwixt the L. & the souls of them that hear you, he only that seethe in secret knoweth in particular: particularly & certainly we know not nor inquire not: See more of this point in that which is written before & in the letter to Mr. S. at the end of this book, 2. let it be granted that you do convert men even to the true visible faith of the new Testament, I say this is no proor sufficient of the truth of your ministry, that is to say, that you are those true Pastors mentioned, Eph. 4.11. Act. 20.28. 1. Pet. 5. 1-3.1. Tim. 3.2. Tit. 1. 6-9 For these officers were given to the true church: which Church was established before these officers were, & these officers were occupied about the feeding, that is teaching & guiding of those particular Churches whereto they attended: the Churches therefore consisting of Saints already converted to the faith of the new Testament, how doth conversion argue a true ministery of Pastor, or Elder, or Bb. which converteth not as his proper work, but only feedeth, that is edifieth & buildeth up men converted, by teaching & guiding them in the ways of the Lord? See more of this point also in the letter to Mr. S. at the latter end of this book: & in that which is written before which I desire may be considered. but here you object that the Apostle, that is, one sent proveth his calling by the seal of his ministery, viz. conversion: see: Rom. 4.14.15. 1. Cor. 9.2. & 2. Cor. 3. 13. & 13.3.5. & that it cannot be proved that jesus Chr. doth work by false means, & it is our own grant. I answer that if your argument be framed into form it is this. He that converteth Souls is an Apostle, as Paul, 2. Cor. 3. 12, The Ministers of England convert Souls. Ergo, the ministers of England are Apostles as Paul: or thus. He that converteth Souls is sent of God. Rom. 10.14.15. The Ministers of England convert Souls. Ergo, the ministers of England are sent of God. If I should yield your first argument them it would follow that you & all the ministers that convert souls in England are Ap. but you intent not to prove yourselves Apst: but ordinary Pastors of visible churches: & therefore your argument if it were yielded proveth not your purpose: & I know you do not challendg to be an Apostle as Paul was. Again to answer to your second argument, we yield you that no man can convert to the true saith of Chr. new Testament which is visible, except he be sent of God: but seeing you pervert men from the new testament of Chr. (as I have proved) how can you hereby prove yourselves to be sent of God? nay I say you are the instruments of Satan sent by the L. in his wrath to keep the people in bondage from the obedience of the faith taught in the new testament: I do not determine what you are invisibly, secretly known to the L. neither doth the Scripture teach us so to judge of faith: For how can the Scripture teach us visibly to judge an invisible thing which is not appearing in visible Fruits? Further where as you say that the 1. Cor. 9.1. & 2. Cor. 3. 13. doth not intend the constitution of the Church of the Corinth's, & other Churches: but their conversion from idolatry to embrace the doctrine of the gospel by faith: I answer that these two things which you distinguish are all one, & they are no other in distinction than Aaron's beard, & the beard of Aaron (as you speak): for to convert men to the Faith of the gospel, is to convert men to the true constituted. Church of Christ: For they are not converted to the true faith till they be converted & established into the true Church if it may be sound: So that this objection of yours is very insufficient if not altogether ridiculous: & for the force of the Apostles argument in these two places of the Corinth's, I say it is mistaken by you utterly, & so wrested from the Holy Ghosts purpose, & misapplied by you to prove your intention. For the seal of Paul's Apostles hip was the Church of the Corinth's converted to the saith, & established into the true constitution of the new Testament 1. Cor. 9.2. & so Paul expoundeth himself in the other place 2. Cor. 3.10. saying, that he was made an able Minister of the new Testament, even as Moses was of the old: For the understanding of which place & the whole matter, you must remember what Moses did to the Church of the jews, & what Paul did to the Church of the Corinth's: Moses did constitute the Church of the jews, according to the pattern showed him in the mount & that most faithfully, Heb. 8.5. Paul being the Apostle of the Gentiles sent by Chr. jesus for that purpose, hath established the Church of the Corinth's, according to that pattern which Christ the Mediator revealed unto him: which none could do but an Apostle sent by Christ: So that the force of Paul's Argument to prove himself an Apostle must thus be propounded & conceived. He that hath the seal of an Apostelship is an Apostle. Paul hath the seal of an Apostelship, viz: an infallible direction from Christ jesus by the Spirit to convert & establish the Church of the Corinth's into the true constitution of the new Testament. Ergo: Paul is an Apostle of jesus Christ. Now Mr. Bern. I would require you to answer directly & plainly whither this be not the true Scope & intent of these two places of Scripture: if yea: then are you a most ignorant & shameless perverter & false interpreter of the Scriptures, whereof I require your repentance before the Lord & the world (for your sin is public:) if nay: then discover the contrary if you can & justify yourself: or else I do profess unto you, & to all the ministers of England, that you do abuse the honest hearted people of the Land, misleading them merely by the pretence of this argument of converting souls: For they feeling in their consciences secretly the Lords work of inward conversion by the ministry of the Land, especially the sincerest & most forward puritans thereby are brought to reverence their ministry: & under the vizard of this inward work in their consciences pretending conversion to the visible faith of Christ's new Testament, do hereby resolutely persist under that ministry whereby (say they) they were converted, assuring themselves that it cannot be a false ministry that converteth men to the Lord inwardly and secretly: than you the ministers of the Land, deceiving others, & being deceived yourselves by the misconstruction of these & the like places of Scripture stand up stoutly to defend your ministry after this manner: are we not true ministers of jesus Christ? have we not converted Souls? are not you the Seal of our ministery, the forward professors of the Land? we appeal unto your consciences if you in our ministry have not felt the power of the word to your inward conversion: If this be so: how can you forsake your Fathers that begat you? how can you go to the Separation that never converted you? etc. I answer what you do inwardly in conversion, I dispute not, & the Scripture regardeth not: what you do outwardly that I plead, & the Scripture discovereth: you convert not a man to the true faith of Christ which is visible in the visible communion of the true Church of the Apostle Paul's constitution such as was the Church of the Corinth's: and therefore you cannot by your inward invisible conversion (which you plead for) prove your ministry: For except you can produce such an effect as Paul did in the Corinth's you cannot prove yourselves to be the true ministers that are sent of God. For Paul saith ye Corinth's are our Epistle understood & read of all men: So that Paul's Seal of his ministry was an outward visible, legible faith, viz: The faith of the true Church of the new Testament whereinto the Apostle had established them, which all men did see behold, & read manifestly: wherefore if you the Ministers of England will prove yourselves to be the true ministers of the new Tesament, then show me such a seal of your ministry as the Apostle here speaketh of: convert men, & establish them in the true Apostolical Church of the primitive institution, & I for my part will yield unto you, that as paul was sent extraordinarily, so are you ordinarily by the Lord, & you are the true ministers of jesus Christ truly sent: Rom. 10. but seeing you do what you can to hinder all your disciples from the true Corinthian Church established by paul according to the pattern of Christ's new Testament, not bringing the people that depend upon you so far as you know & acknowledge, but still counsel them to stay & wait for a better time, till the civil Magistrate will give his allowance, under these pretences still keeping them in Spiritual boundage to the abominations of Antichrist retained in the Land: I say hereby you manifestly discover unto all the world, that seeing you know the will of your Lord & Mr. Christ, & do it not, you are worthy to be beaten with many stripes: that seeing you break the commandments of Christ & teach men so, you are the least (that is none) in the Kingdom of Heaven: practising flat contrary to the Apostles who thought it better to obey God then man & yet the Magistrates that forbade them were the Magistrates of the true Church of the jews: wherefore briefly to answer both Ministers & professors: To the professors I say: Show me your faith by embracing the whole new Testament of Christ. To the ministers I say: Show me the Seal of your ministry by converting & establishing a Church after the Apostolic Corinthian frame & constitution: & I will grant that then you are true ministers, & your disciples truly converted: in the mean time I will judge your visible standing in Christianity as it is visible: & your invisible being in Christianity I will leave to the Lord, who seethe in secret, & who knoweth who are his not doubting but the Lord hath his thousands even in the depth of popery much more among you: & this is that Mr. Bern. which we hold & grant concerning this point. Now for your objection which you for us make & answer pag. 129. 130. That private persons may convert, I say you herein also are deceived & deal deceitfully: For you are to distingnish of conversion according to the circumstance of time wherein men were converted to Christ: john converted & baptised many into Christ jesus before the visible Church of the new Testament was revealed, which came upon the day of Pen●ecost, Act. 2. Eph. 4.11. Thus were all the Disciples of john & of Christ converted, of this conversion & Faith must the places of the Evangelists be understood: as namely that joh. 4.39. & others: so were the jews, Proselytes, & some of Samaria converted, for as yet Chr. was not preached to the Gentiles, which he himself for bad to be done, Mat. 10. thus were men converted to believe that the Messias which they knew should come, was come, & that jesus the Son of God, & the Son of Mary was he: who upon their conversion & baptism became Christ's Disciples to learn & practise whatsoever he should afterward teach them: That this is so read, Act. 18, 23. & 19.2.3. Now after the day of Pentecost, conversion was larger as I may so speak in respect of the visible manifestation thereof & other like considerations: For than men were converted to the matter of the day of Pentecost, & to all that frame & constitution of the church of the new Testament which was purchased by Christ's death, & exhibited unto the Apostles by the promise of the Spirit given unto them: Thus were men converted after the death, resurrection, & ascension of Christ, & after the coming of the Holy Ghost as may be seen, Act. 2. 38-42. & 8.16.17. & 10. 44-48. So that john converted men to the Faith of Christ to be manifested: after the day of Pentecost, the Apostles converted men to the Faith of Christ already given & exhibited: therefore that the new Testament of Christ is now confirmed & established, & revealed manifestly in the Scriptures of the Apostles of our Lord, all that are converted now are converted to the new Testament & the ordinances there of, or else they are not converted to us visibly: This being thus premised as necessarily to be understood for the true knowledge of true conversion: in the next place we must take notice (for the answering of the objection of private men's converting) that Antichrist hath defaced the Faith of Christ in the whole new Testament, & so the true ministry: & therefore it must needs be that whosoever doth convert from Antichristianisme, & establisheth a people into the true Faith & new Testament of Christ performeth that work either as a minister of Antichrist: or as an Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist of Christ: or as a Private person: For this is a sufficient enumeration of parts there being no other sort off persons to convert men from Antichrist to Christ but one of these: For you have heard that Pastors do not convert but feed the flock: I suppose you dare not a vouch that the Ministers off Antichrist do convert to the true Faith & new Testament off Christ jesus: neither dare you say that there are now in the world the offices of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists: wherefore when men convert they do it as private persons: Therefore choose Mr. Bern. which of these three you will affirm: & then tell me whither private persons do not convert, as Act. 11. 19-21. & this shall suffice for this point, of converting performed by private persons in the rising up from the Apostasy of Antichrist, & for the discovering of your objection & answer. Now from the pa. 130-141. you teach us the doctrine of the vocation of ministers which I will not altogether disallow, nor approve wholly: & seeing it aperteyneth not to our question, I leave it wholly untouched: & come to that which is pa. 141-146. where you endeavour again to prove your ministry true, & that after this manner. They that are called of Christ, having both gifts & graces: they that are also outwardly called of the church being examined, approved, elected, ordained: they that preach true doctrine, administer the true Sacraments, perform their office faithfully, live conscionably, are assisted by Chr. to convert souls, & are approved by the people, are the true ministers of Christ. The ministers of the Church of England have all these particulars. Ergo, the ministers of the Church of England are the true ministers of Christ. I answer you Mr. Ber. that the Popish ministers have all these foresaid qualifications in common with the ministers of England, (I plead not of the degree or measure of these things, for I confess some of them to be much more in the English ministers but I speak of the kind or nature of the qualifications): which I prove by induction thus. 1. The Popish ministers many of them have excellent outward gifts & graces as much learning, utterance, zeal, & gravity as any ministers of England, though all of them have not so: as all the ministers of England have not so. 2. The Popish ministers are called examined, approved, elected, ordained of the Church, (that is as you expound, the chief governors, who are as true ministers as you are, seeing your ministry is a branch of the root): So are you. 3. The Popish ministers preach the true doctrine of Christ, & administer his true Sacraments: for you retain the baptism that men have in popery as true, and they break and eat bread and wine in remembrance of Christ's death: & although you preach more truth than they do, & administer baptism & the L. Supper more purely, or rather less corruptly, yet they have the same truths & Sacraments that you have, even the Scriptures, baptizme & the L. Supper. 4. The Popish ministers many of them perform their office Faithfully in many things as Faithfully as you do: & the best you do not perform all the parts of the true ministry, & the worst of you are as bad as ●he worst popish priest. 5. The popish ministers some of them live conscionably according to their rule, the best of you do no more: & the worst of you are as vild beasts as the grossest shavelings in Rome. 6. As the Popish ministers convert none visibly to the true Faith and new Testament of Christ, & yet I doubt not but that thousands are by them converted & saved (what Mr. Be. will you condemn all the men that have lived from Gregory the great till the council of Constance, & to this day under the dominions of the pope? For shame do not so.) So though the forwardest ministers of England convert many invisibly to life & Salvation by Christ, yet you ordinarily say, that the Formalists convert none, & the dumb ministers cannot convert, because they cannot preach: & none of you all convert a man visibly to the true Faith taught in the new Testament of Christ, but with all your might pervert men from it. 7. Finally, the popish ministers are approved by their people, aswell as the best or worst of you are, according to the dispositions of the people. Seeing therefore that all these things are as evident & pregnant for the popish ministers as for you, therefore either they are true ministers if you be true: or else because they are falls (as you say) & yet have all these foresaid qualifications, therefore these qualifications make not a true ministry: So that you see Mr. Ber. that you argument is weak to prove your ministry true, & you must seek out a better definition of a true ministry, & according thereto shape your ministry, if you will have it true. In the next place you with an objection & answer would prove that although your ministers have a false entrance, viz: ordination of the Bb. yet may be true ministers: & namely by two reasons, 1. For that none were ever ordained but by ecclesiastical persons, as Apostles, Evangelists, Bbs. 2. a false entrance cannot make a false ministry, as in marriage. I answer: First, if it were yielded you that there could be no true ministers made without ordination of Apostles, Evangelists, Bbs. yet because your L. Bbs. are not those true Apostles, Evangelists, Bbs. of the primitive institution, but rather the Servants of Antichrist, (as your forwardest professors & preachers instantly affirm) therefore their ordination is Antichristian, and so your ministry is false in the entrance: but Secondly, I deny it to be true which you affirm for ordination by procedent Elders: For I have proved unto you by many undeniable reasons that the whole ministerial power of Christ is given to the body of the Church, whereby, as in the first constituting of Churches, so in the rising of Churches from Antichristianisme, the body hath power to all the Holy ordinances of Christ for their mutual edification to life & Salvation, whereof the true ministry is a principal: & therefore the Church hath power to enjoy the true ministry: & you confess the Church wanting officers hath power to elect her officers, which is the principal, Act. 6. & 14. & why not to approve & ordain which are but the inferior & less principal? Further, you may read Act. 1. that before there were any Apostles actually in office, the Church did chose Mathias into the room of judas, & that by a common consent: wherefore this first exception of yours is nothing. Your Second exception is as weak: that seeing a faulty entrance into marriage which is one ordinance of God, doth not disannul it, why should a faulty entrance into the ministry disannul it? I say the violating of accidental circumstances through ignorance shall not disannul any of God's ordinances: For than their should be no true having of any ornance of God whatsoever: it is impossible we should perfectly & strictly keep all & every circumstance thereto aperteyning: but the wilful breach of essential parts of the ordinance doth corrupt the ordinance & make it false: as for example: The matter or form being false, the ordinance cannot possible be true: A man marrieth a maid that is 6. year old: or a woman marrieth an Eunuch: the marriage is false, for the matter is false: A man taketh a woman not as his wife, but as a concubine, as the younger brethren the gentlemen of Venice do, this is no true marriage, because it wanteth the true form of marriage: so your Churches assume them ministers, suppose they be the true pastors described in the word, as I am persuaded your Puritans so endeavour, I say because your churches or Ecclesiastical assemblies are false, your ministry is not true: For a true Minister & a false Church cannot marry together: Further, if your Church & ministry were true, yet if you should be presented by a Patron, ordained by a Prelate, inducted by an Archdeacon, contrary to the will of the Church, the marriage is false, because the calling is false: So than you see Mr. Ber. how little your similes help you wherein notwithstanding you by your disciples are thought Specially to excel, and to have the prehemenence over your fellow Priests. And here you bring a flourish out of the 10. of john to prove your ministers true ministers: what Mr. Bern. in good sooth do you plead this for all your Ministers of England? Speak plainly & double not with God & man: do you in your conscience think that all the ministers of England, even your dumb Priests (whom you have excluded by your covenant) your gross non-residents & idle bellies the Cathedral or Collegiate Priests, your double benificed men, that all these & every one of them do enter in by the door? have entrance by the porters opening, know their sheep by name, lead them by sound doctrine & holy life save many & destroy none: Speak plainly Mr. Ber. to this point, & seek no shifts: & yet these are the only men allowed by Law in your ministry: For be he never so dumb, idle, non resident, wicked, yet if he subscribe wear the gear, & do read the Service book, & will do homage to his Spiritual Lords & their Courts, if he be amicus curiae, if he be conformable & obedient all is well: is not this even so? this you know in your conscience Mr. Bern. & therefore pag. 143. Lin. 7.8. you speak warily: you say: The properties of a true Shepherd agree well with Ministers in England: you dare not say with all the Ministers of England: Therefore by your own conscience all the Ministers of England are not true Shepherds: your Lords the Prelates will con you little thank for this: but let us exclude your dumb Priests, idle bellies, and all the rabble of the conformists if you will, which are 9 parts of 10. (and then I think you are excluded yourself among them:) I will plead only against the best minister that standeth by Law in your assemblies: 1. he entereth not in by the door, seeing the door is only in the Sheepsold, that is in the true Church: & seeing you are a False Church (as is proved) your door cannot be true. 2. The porter (that is as you say God's Spirit: but I think rather the porter to be the watchman, that is the whole Church, Mat. 13. 33-37) he openeth not to you, for you convert none to the true visible Faith of the new Testament, or if you did, it doth not prove your true Pastorship, seeing Shepherds do not make sheep, but feed them: it should only prove that you are Spiritual Fathers that convert men which private persons do as you have heard, 3. he doth not know them nor is known of his Sheep: For of 300 perhaps he will not acknowledge above 30. to be sheep, the rest he thinketh goats, & the goats will not acknowledge him as Shepherd, but hate & fly from him. 4. he doth not lead them by sound doctrine to perfection●, but by False doctrine perverteth them from the truth, which blasphemously he proclaimeth daily in his pulpit to be Brownisme, Schism, Heresy, etc. 5. he doth not lead them by Godly life, for if the chief part of Godliness be the true worship of God, how doth he lead them in Godliness, that leadeth them up & down in your False Church, Ministry, Worship, & Government, blind fold like the men of Sodom that sought Lot's door: Therefore I dare in the true fear of the Lord call the best of you all a Spiritual thief, & a robber, yea a Wolf that cometh to kill, rob, and destroy: not that you so intend to do: or that you do so wilfully, (& yet I would have you Mr. Bern. Look well to yourself, for I dare not clear you from sinning against your conscience, who have acknowledged the truth:) but for that you do so indeed, & by necessary consequent: For seeing you are in a False Church, & Ministry, and use a False worship, & submit to a False Government, you must needs by defending all this Falsehood & teaching it to others, & persuading them to the obedience thereof, persuade them to all these abominations of Antichrist, & so do rob them, kill them, & raven them, like wolves, thieves, & robbers: For men may rob, kil, & destroy ignorantly, as Paul did when he was a Pharisee, as I myself did when I was one of your Priests, & as many do in popery, except you will say that they all do sin against their conscience, Act. 3.17. 1. Tim. 1.13. And here you have a fling at our ministers, & will needs have them no Lawful ministers: you dare not say false: & this you endeavour to prove because that we are not made Ministers by Successive ordination. First, Mr. Be. I tell you because of your importunity in this particular of ordination by Succession that if it must needs be (which we deny utterly) that we have it, if you have it, for we were made Priests by your prelate's: why then do you condemn our ministry say you? why do you condemn the ministry of the Church of Rome say I? For if you may have a true ministry, & yet condemn the ministers of the Church of Rome, from whence yours came: then may we have a true ministry, & yet condemn your ministry whence ours cometh: this I speak, not for that I plead it, but to stop your mouth: For I utterly renounce your orders which I had from Wickan prelate of Lincoln, when I was chosen Fellow of Christ's College in Cambridg: & I received & do retain my ministry from that particular Church whereof I am Pastor: which hath the whole power of Christ ministerial delegated to her from Christ her Husband, when he contracted with her. Secondly, you neieher can nor do prove Succession in the new Testament: For that which you allege for the Succession of the old Testament, I say it was typical, & is abolished by Christ: For do you think this is a good argument: one Priest begat another in the old Testament, therefore one minister must ordain another in the new Testament: why may you not plead after this manner: Therefore one Priest may beget another Priest in the new Testament? & whereas you say that Priests did consecrate priests, which consecration was their ordination, I deny it utterly, & I prove the contrary, that during the captivity of Babylon there were many priests borne & none consecrated, only for their admission in to the priests office it was requisite that they should show their Genealogy, Nehe. 7.64, 65. but their ordination was their generation or birth: though I deny not but when they entered into the performance of their office there were some rites performed which was no part of their ordination: but I would know of you what is ordination: is it any thing but the declaring of the party elected & approved to be in office, by prayer for him & a chardg given unto him? can none do this but a precedent officer? Again, for the old Testament I say, God created the first Priest, viz: Adam, then till Aaron men begat Priests, for the eldest in the Family were the Priests: Moses who was the younger brother & no priest ordained Aaron & his Sons: after that Priests begat priests till Christ's time: then Christ appointed officers in the Church: Apostles made Evangelists, Evangelists & Apostles ordained Bbs. & Deacons: all this I confess Mr. Ber. what is this to Succession in the new Testament? I show you plainly that the Church Elected Mathias, there being yet no Apostles, Act. 1. there being Apostles the Church elected Deacons, Act. 6. & Elders, Act. 14. & seeing they performed election which is the contract, why may they not perform all? For ordination is nothing in respect of Election, as you may see in all societies & corporations whatsoever: The contract which is the mutual consent of a man & woman for marriage maketh man and wife before God Election which is the mutual consent of the pastor & his Flock, maketh a man pastor of his Flock: So that in this particular Mr. Bern. you show your wilfulness and blindness as much as in any thing in your book, although I doubt not, but it is the best that can be pleaded for Antichrist: & thus much for the second part of this Section. The third part of this Section is, that your worship is a false worship wherein, as I have dealt in the two former points, so will I deal in this, viz, first prove the position: Secondly answer your cavils. To prove your worship a false worship I use these Arguments following. First Argument. The true worship of the L. cannot possibly be offered up in a false Church. The Ecclesiastical assemblies of England are false Churches. Ergo. The worship offered unto the L. in those Ecclesiastical assemblies is a false worship. The ground of this argument is this, that all the Ecclesiastical actions performed by a false Church are stained with the false constitution of the church: For God will not have every communion of men worship him, but he willbe worshipped by such a company of people as he hath described in his new Testament: & as in the old Testament no man or company of men might worship or be accepted visibly, but such as were circumcised, Gen. 17.14. Exod. 12.48. Deut. 23. 14. Act. 21.28. 2. King. 17. 25-28. joh. 4.22. So in the new Testament no man or communion of men visibly can be accepted of the L. but such as are described in the new Testament, viz. men Separated from all the abominations of Antichrist, 2. Cor. 6.17. & gathered into the name of Christ jesus, Mat. 18.20. & being made Disciples have received baptism whereby they are counited into Christ, Mat. 28.19. If any communion of men otherwise constituted (viz men not Separated, not gathered together, not gathered into Christ's name, not made Disciples, not baptised truly with the baptism of the new Testament,) if any such company of men do worship God their worship is not accepted of God: but as the L. sent Lions among the Samaritans for persuming to worship him in the land of Israel, they being an uncircumcised company, 2. King 17.24.25. & as the L. punished the vagabond jews, exorcists by the violence of an evil Spirit, for naming the L. jesus being an unbelieving & unbaptized company, Act. 19. 13-17. even so will the L. be avenged on all them that joining together to worship God, have not Separated themselves, or calling upon the name of the Lord, do not departed from iniquity, 2. Cor. 6.17. 2. Tim. 2.19. neither will it serve to say that the worship is true because it is true conceived prayer, or true preaching, or thanksgiving: For true worship must be defined, not only in the matter, but chiefly in the form: For otherwise among the Antichristian papists & Heretics there is true conceived prayer, preaching & thanks giving. & else in the old Testament there was true Sacrificing among the Babylonians when they Sacrificed an ox to the God of Israel, Dan. 6.25.26. whereas it was manifested that no Sacrifice could be accepted that was offered with strange fire, Levit. 10.1.2. & there for the Sacrifices of the Babylonians must needs be abominable, though the matter was true, because the form which chiefly consisted in the fire was false: So though the matter of the worship of the new Testament be true, viz: conceived prayer, preaching, praising God, yet because it proceedeth not from the true fire which is always living upon the Altar, Levit. 6. 9-13. at jerusalem, that is, in the true Church and Tem●●e of God, because it is not inflamed by the true Spirit of Christ, the true visible anointing which is only in the true body the true Church, (Ephes. 4.4. For there is one body and one Spirit:) Therefore the worship is not true worship visibly: what it may be invisibly I dispute not: nor do not censure at all, but leave to the Lord, and to every conscience. The Second Argument. The worship that is offered up unto the L. by a false ministery, is a false worship, & cen not visibly be judged true or accepted. The worship of the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England is offered up by a false ministry: as hath been proved already. Ergo: the worship of the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England is a false worship, & cannot visibly be judged true or accepted. The ground of this Argument is the same with the former: wherefore as in the old Testament the worship that was performed in Israel by the Priests of jeroboams devising which were not of the Lineage & genealogy of Aaron was a false worship, & could not be accepted visibly, or be judged as accepted judging by the rules of the word. 1. King. 12. 31-33. and as the incense which Azariah the King of judah would have offered, could not be accepted or so judged, because it was not offered by the true Priests the Sons of Aaron, 2. Chron. 26. 16-22. and the King was punished with Leprosy for his presumption: So all the worship which is offered up unto the Lord by a false ministry, is visibly to be judged abominable, because Christ only offered up to his Father the worship of the worshippers which his new Testament hath described & no other, Rev. 8.3.4. compared with Revel. 5. 8-10. & 11.1. still let it be remembered that I dispute not, nor censure not, the invisible things of the Lord. The third Argument. jewish, that is literal, stinted, imposed book-worship is false worship. The worship of the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England is jewish, that is literal, stinted imposed, boom-worship. Ergo, the worship of the Ecclesiastical assemblies of England is a false worship. The ground of this argument is the Analogy and proportion which there is betwixt the type and the truth, the shadow and the substance, the letter and the Spirit, the Old Testament with the ordinances thereof, & the new Testament with the ordinances there of: For seeing the old Testament was a type of the new, therefore the Church, ministry, worship, & government of the old Testament were types of the Church, ministry, worship & government of the new Testament, therefore the worship of the old testament being lyteral beginning in the letter (as was carnal circumcision Rom. 2.29.) did type forth the worship of the new Testament to begin in the Spirit, joh. 4.23.24. For the Letter was a type of the Spirit, Col. 2.17. Seeing therefore that Reading the Law was a typical ordinance of the old Testament, & therefore literal, stinted, manifesting the letter, & book-worship, it followeth that it is now abolished by Christ, & the thing signified by the literal Reading is now to be retained in the new testament, which is, uttering matter out of the heart, called the manifestation of the Spirit, the demonstration of the Spirit, the ministering of the Spirit, & the like: by which phrases of Speech the Holy Ghost would teach us, that seeing we are fet at liberty from the bondage of the law which was a Schoolmr. to lead to Christ, we are not therefore again to be entangled with the yoke of bondage in any thing, no not in this matter of stinted, literal, book worship which is flat ludaism● but we being placed in the liberty of the Spirit, are to use our gifts in God's worship, as the spirit giveth utterance, as we see the Apostles practised upon the day of Pentecost, when the promise of the Spirit was fulfilled upon them, & as we see the Church of Counth practised, 1. Cor. 14.15.16.26. & 12. 7-●1. He that desireth to know further of this particular of book-worship let him read the book lately published entitled: The differences of the Churches of the Separation: where this point is largely discussed, which if it be the truth I desire may be embraced, if not. I require an answer of them to whom it is specially directed: to conclude this first point, Mr. Bern. seeing your Worship for the most part is book-worship, I conclude it to be jewish, and so false Worship. Now I come to answer your cavils which are contained pag. 146-151. First, you refer us to the treatise in the end of your book, & I refer you for answer partly to Mr. Ains. partly to the book entitled the differences of the Churches of the Separation: For I do acknowledge that in the Old Testament, Psalms, Prayers, & Prophecies were read out of a book: & yet further I answer three things: 1. that it will not follow that seeing it was so in the old Testament, therefore it must be so in the new: nay contrary: it was so in the old Testament, therefore it must not be so in the new: This is the true manner of reasoning: or thus: In the Old Testament they had Psalms, Prophecies, Prayers, read out of a book, which was the Type, the manifestation of the Letter: Therefore in the new Testament, we must have Psalms, Prophecies, Prayers, brought out of the heart, which is the Spiritual book of the New Testament, wherein the Lord doth write his Laws, Heb. 8.10. which is the truth, the manifestation of the Spirit, 2. it will not follow that if it were granted that reading the Prayers, Prophecies, & Psalms of Scripture out of the Original tongues the Hebrew and Greek, were lawful, that therefore the reading of the Apocrypha translations which are the works of men is Lawful: For theone is interpretation of a Language or Tongue, that is the uttering of matter from the knowledge of the Tongues and the gift of interpreting: the other is reading words out of a book, which a child of eight years old may do. 3. neither will it follow that if it were found lawful to read the English translation of the Scriptures, therefore it shallbe lawful to read your English mass-book, your book of Homilies, and Articles your book of Canons: For then why may you not read also Mr. Perkins upon the Creed, Henry Smyths Sermons, or any other good Catechism, Commentary, or Sermon book? Secondly, you prove your worship true by two reasons, 1. Say you, you worship no False God. 2. you worship the true God with no False worship: For you preach the true word, admister the true Sacraments, pray such prayers as are agreeable to the Scripture, & the form of prayer taught by Christ: & if any things else be prescribed, it is not imposed as worship: Or if it were prescribed as a part of worship, it doth not therefore follow that all the worship is False: well: I answer: That Israel in jetoboams' time and after, and when Aaron made the Calf, did not worship worship a false God, & yet their worship was false: So may your worship be false though you worship the true God that hath revealed himself in the old Testament: but their worship is not true by your own confession: therefore your consequent is not good that seeing you worship the true God, your worship must needs be true: if the means whereby you worship be a false means devised by the wit of a man & not taught in the word of God, I say your worship is false: & so that place of Mat. 15.1. importeth that whosoever worshippeth God by any invented means, taught by man's precept worshippeth God in vain: Such is an image as the second commandment teacheth: now the means of your worship are false, as first your false Church which is an Idol. 2. your stinted devised, imposed, literal service book, which is an Idol, 3. your false Christ which is not your King, Priest, & Prophet, which is one of our Idols: For though you truly believe concerning his person, yet your Faith is false, & your doctrine false concerning his offices & mediation: & therefore these means of your worship being false means, they must needs be false worship: therefore, seeing your doctrine is much of it false: your communion false: your worship stinted & book worship: it followeth that your word is not the true word, your Sacraments the signs of your false Faith & communion are not true: your prayers are not true: & whereas you plead that other things besides the word, Sacrament, & prayer, are not imposed as worship, I answer: what do they then in your worship? will you mingle that which is no worshiss, & worship together? either they are worship, or else let them be cast out of your worship: & further, whereas you allege that though some parts of your worship he false, yet all shall not be false, I grant it, if your Church were true, & your ministry true: but seeing your Church & ministry be false, therefore though you do preach the true word, & administer the true Sacraments, & pray true prayers, yet they can not be true worship offered up in a false Church, by a false ministry, for the falsehood of the Church & ministry doth essentially corrupt the worship: if all that is set upon the table be either poison, or poisoned meat, I say such is your worship: For death is in your worship, as Coloquintida was in the pot: So that you see the distinction of true & false doth most properly aperteyne to your worship: as it doth also to your ministry & Church, as hath been showed. In the next place you declare unto us out of Philip Mornaeus the order of the worship of the old Testament, & out of the Scripture the parts of the worship of the new Testament, & out of justinus Martyr the order of worship in his times, which I will not contradict, & yet I plead, that seeing your Church is false, your ministry false, your service book a false means of worship, therefore though all that you allege were true, it doth not follow that your worship is true: & whereas you plead that reading, Col. 4.16. is commanded as a part of worship, I wish you to read the book entitled the differences of the Churches of the Separation, & you shall have your answer: and thus much for this Section. The eleventh Section. The next position is your third, which is this, viz. 3. In maintaining that it is not lawful to hear any ministers amongst us whatsoever they be no● to join in prayer with such as fear God among us: I for my part hold both unlawful: because your ministers are false ministers: & your people of false Churches: Now how can we who are the Church and body of Christ, have any Spiritual communion with you, who are the ministers and subjects of Antichrist. 2. corinth. 6. 14-16. But here you would needs have us believe that there be many that fear God among you. & that they are particularly known unto us: for my part I do believe generally that God hath his people in Babylon, & even among you who are Babel that is confusion: & I do also believe that those who are miscalled by the name of Puritans, are the most likely to be God's people: but to say, certainly this or that Puritan hath saith or feareth God, I cannot do by any warrant out of the word of God that I see. For know you that there is only one true form of a visible Church, Eph. 4. there is one body: in this body there is one only true faith, for the Apostle faith the ●aith is one: but none of you all are members of this body which is a communion of faithful men Separated from all uncleanness, & walking in the obedience of all God's ordinances: & therefore none of you all are of the true faith which is found only in the true body. You shall see Mr. Be. how many things I chardg you all with. 1. You are mingled with all the abominable people of the land contrary to these scriptures. 2. Cor. 6.17. Apoc. 18.4. 2. You call God Father jointly with all the people of the Land whom are brethren of you & members of the same Church with you: with is untrue if you take yourselves to be faithful: For they are of their Father the Devil. 3. You make Christ a Mediator to you all in common with all the profane people of the land, which is contrary to Apoc. 8.2. joh. 17.9. 4. You make all the wicked people of the land members of Christ, & members of yourselves, in the seals of the covenant, if you challendg yourselves to be Faithful: which is contrary to 1 Cor. 6.15. & 10.16.17. 5. You refuse Christ's Testament & his Kingdom, & will not have him to reign over you in his own Offices & Laws: which is contrary to these places. Luk. 19.27. Apoc. 14. 9-11. 6. You utterly reject the censures of admonition in the three degrees thereof contrary to Mat. 18. 15-17. Heb. 10.24.25. 7. You suffer yourselves (if you challendg to be God's people) to be deprived & rob of the power of Christ, to choose your own officers contrary to Act. 6.5. & 14.23.1. tim. 3. toto. & 5.21. & 6.13.14. 8. You reject the truth, we by our testimony offer unto you; yea you persecute it by slanders, by lies, by railings, though many of you have been enlightened by it: how then can we account you faithful certainly: but we must certainly know thento be Faithful with whom we pray: For whatsoever is not of Faith is sin: I pray you miconstrue me not: For although I dare not say you have Faith of a certainty, yet I hope well of many of you in particular: but to tell you plainly I hope better of many that never knew this truth then of you & some of your Disciples whom I know by: their own confession to have been enlightened with it, & yet now oppose against it: look to yourselves, your estate is fearful: if our gospel be hid saith the Apostle, it is hid to them that perish, 2. cor. 4.3. & when certain were hardened & disobedient speaking evil of the way before the multitude (as you do) Paul departed from them, & Separated the Disciples, Act. 19.9. & so do we to you, and therefore our practice is warrantable: Therefore consider these things that I writ, for I profess before the Lord that this truth which we testify unto you is as clear and evident unto us as the noon day: and observe it well that those among you that have been enlightened with it, and now quench it, shall grow from evil to worse, and shall have God's hand out against them, so as every man shall say the Lord is avenged of them, except they return again: and so I leave this point. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the eleventh Section. Mr. Bern. Sep. Schis. pag. 152. Saith that those men have lost the feeling of former grace & all true charity, that say thus, viz: That they cannot say certainly, by any warrant off God's word, that any of us hath either Faith or fear of God: & he nameth Mr. Smyth in the margin. Again, pag. 58. he writeth thus, viz: one of them writeth that certainly he cannot by the word be persuaded that any of us hath either true Faith or fear of God: naming Mr. Smyth in the margin. I writ in this Section thus: that particularly, & certainly, I cannot say by any warrant of God's word that I see, that this or that person hath Faith, & fear of God among you: yet I say also: That I verily believe generally that God hath his people among you, & that they are in all likely hood the persons that are miscalled Puritans: Here I wish the conscionable reader to consider Mr. Bern. evil dealing whither ignorantly or maliciously I know not: I speak generally & specially: Generally I do certainly believe that the Lord hath his people in England: Specially I say certainly & particularly, I know not who they be yet in likelihood they are the Puritans so called: now Mr. Bern to make the Lords truth odious, & his own part good, perverteth this speech off mine in 3. particulars, 1. he leaveth out the good that I say, viz: that I certainly believe God's people to be in the Land, & that in likelihood they are the Puritans, 2. in his speech he leaveth out this word particularly known to me, 3. he in one of his speeches, viz: pa. 59 transporteth the word, Certainly, to the beginning of the Sentence, as if I were certainly persuaded that none of the Land feared God or had Faith: I beseech the Gentle Reader to mark his fraud & evil dealing, & so to trust him according to his desert, as also to consider what I say, & therefore to read the beginning of this Section where my words are manifest: all that I intend is this: That visibly, certainly, & particularly I cannot say any one to have Faith or fear of God in the Churches of England, which are False Churches: buc generally, certainly, & invisibly, I believe there are thousands, viz: a remnant according to the Election of grace: See for this Rom. 11.3.4. compared with 1. King 19.10. Revel. 18.4. Mr. Bern. I will not desire the Lord to reward you according to your works as Paul did: but I desire the Lord to give you eyes to see, & a heart to acknowledge this your sin, & I desire all men to take notice of Mr. Bern. deceitful dealing in this one particular, and accordingly to judge of the rest, of his dea●●●s. Further, pag. 152. Mr. Bern. accounteth this one of our errors, to hold that None of the Ministers of England may be heard: and pag. 155. He reckoneth this as another of our errors, to descend it to be unlawful to join in praver with any of the assemblies. Seeing the assemblies Ecclesiastical are false Churches, and the members of the assemblies members of false Churches, how can the members of true Churches have communion with them in that estate and standing. For Christ and Antichrist, the members of Christ, and the members of the strumpet cannot be mingled together, and as it is impossible that oil & waters should mingle, so cannot the body of Christ and Antichrist the members of the one body and of the other be made one: Brass, Iron, Silver, Gold, cannot possibly be mingled with clay or earth: No more can the members of the true Church, and the members of the false Church: but in all the parts of Spiritual communion, as prayer, prophecy, praising God, the Sacraments, the persons that partake in them are commingled, & make one body. 1. Cor. 5.9.11.2. Thes. 3.14. 1. Cor. 10.15.17 & 2. Cor. 6. 14-18. Therefore whosoever shall mingle with false ministers or members of false Churches therein offer as shameful indignity to Christ, as it is to take the members of Christ, & make them the members of an harlot. 1. Cor. 6.15. And here Mr. Bern. pag. 153-156. indevoureth to prove it, 1. Lawful to hear their Ministers, 2. to be unlawful to hear us, 3. to be lawful to pray with them that are Faithful among them: For the first you say, who ever heard, that to hear the word should be a sin? yes: I have heard it in these places of Scripture, Deut. 13.3 Math. 7.15. 1. Timoth. 6. 3-5. & 2. 3.5-6. again you say: you have converted by the word, go: you may be heard: I deny that ever you converted men visibly to the Faith of the New Testament, I regard not what you do invisibly, for I cannot see it nor know it: what say you to them that convert in popery, shall they be heard? or do you think they convert none invisibly? Visibly I am assured they convert not: the like I say of you. Further you plead that the Scripture commandeth to hear the word, pronounceth them blessed that hear it, and maketh it a mark of God's Child so to do: I grant it, if it be preached in the Lords true ordinance, else men are forbidden to hear it, pronounced accursed that hear it, and are marked for the Servants of Antichrist for so doing, Revellat. 14. 9-11. Moreover you say, Christ forbiddeth not to hear the Scribes and Pharisees: true, for they were members of the true Church of the Old Testament, and their communion Typical was not polluted by Typical uncleanness for aught that is mentioned to my knowledge: but you say Paul rejoiced that Christ was preached, though of contention & with a purpose to increase his afflictions: Well: Paul rejoiced not that false Ministers in false Churches preached Christ, or that Christians heard them so do: neither doth Paul speak of visible sins, but of invisible affections, which he by the Spirit discerned to be in the Teachers, even as Peter discerned Ananias and Sapphyras dissembling: And what is this to your purpose who are both false Ministers in false Churches, & Antichristian convinced Heretics, except you can and do make answer, which when you have done, then, etc. For the Second, you say we are not to be heard, because (as Brownists) we speak our own fantasies, & visions of our own hearts, and are obstinate well Mr. Bern. I say no more for this point, but this, that every Godly minded man give sentence whither you or we have the truth: the time will come when secret things will come to light: & yourselves do approve all that we profess in substance except the Separation: the Lord judge betwixt you & us: you say again, that we convert none but are ourselves converted by you: I say all that come from you to us are▪ by us converted to the truth from your errors & false ways, & you do not convert one man visibly to the faith: Besides I demand when you Separated from Rome, who converted you from Rome? Finally, we condemn no man among you, only we declare what you are visibly in the account of the Scriptures, by reason of your false Church, & standing: & they that see the truth to be the truth & yield not to it woe be unto them: & take heed you be not of them who have seen it to be the truth, & have confessed it so to be, & yet writ your books against it: if it be so, woe be unto you from the Lord: I say from the Lord except you repent you shall grow worse and worse: as for them that sin through ignorance, their is a Sacrifice for their sins: Let wilful scorners look to themselves. For the third, you say, that if we hold you the children of God we may pray with you: For so Christ hath taught us to say our Father: Well: I deny not but those among you that appertain to the Lords Election have God for their Father, but I say they are in visible, unknown to us certainly & particularly, therefore we cannot have visible communion with them: For whatsoever is not of faith is sin: I may have visible communion with one that is a reprobate in the Lords account, as Peter had with judas: & I may not have visible communion with one that is Elect in the Lords invisible Election, because he is not visibly faithful to me, as namely with thousands of you in the assemblies, because I cannot possibly know them certainly, & particularly. The twelfth Section. The next particular of yours is the thirteenth in number, viz. 13. That a company truly fearing God if any open wicked join with them, are not capable to choose them a minister over them: which is a truth, though you hold it error: I manifest it in this manner. First, you cannot approve to us certainly that you truly fear God. Secondly, you cannot convince that they who suffer wicked men in communion with them truly do fear God: because they live in confusion with the wicked from whom they ought to be Separated: & that therefore in that confusion & estate they have no title to choose them a minister. Thirdly, let it be granted for disputation's sake that some fearing God do consent with open wicked in choosing a minister, I say that Minister so chosen by the good & bad is no true Minister: For that mixed people are not the true Church: the holy Ghost testifieth, 2. Cor. 6.17. that God will receive only those that are separated to be his people: & that seeing those supposed faithful have the Spirit of God, & the open wicked have the Spirit of Satan, they cannot possible combine together, except you will say that the holy Spirit and sathan can combine: seeing then those contrary persons cannot conjoin how can they in common choose them a minister, or if they do how is he a true Minister? seeing they that choose him are not a true Church: I pray you Mr. Ber. in your answer dissolve us this knot, if you can, that we way receive instruction. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the twelfth Section. Mr. Ber. Sep. Schism, pag. 151. Saith that this is one of our errors to hold: That our congregations as they stand, are all & every of them uncapable before God to choose them Ministers, though they desire the means of Salvation, In the beginning of this Section, I say, that a company truly fearing God, if any open wicked join with them, are not capable to choose them a minister over them: & afterward in the end of the Section I say, such a mixed company are not a true Church, & a minister chosen by them is not a true minister. Here I desire that it may be observed that I do not deny, but men that are mixed may appoint one to preach the word unto them: but that which I say, is, that a mixed company of good & bad is not a true Church: & that a man chosen by them to be their Minister, is not a true minister: If men desire instruction I deny not, but they may appoint one to teach them, & that Magistrates in their dominions may appoint men to preach the word to their subjects for their conversion, & that it is a lawful thing, for the people to hear such men, & for men of gifts to preach to such a people, this we see practised Act. 13.42. & 17. 19-21▪ & 28.30. & otherwise how is it possible that men should be brought to the knowledge of the truth & Mr. Ber. if you think that we deny the lawfulness of this, you do us open wrong: & if his Matie. should dissolve the parish Ecclesiastical assemblies & the false ministry, & should command men of knowledge & gifts to preach the word to his subjects, I doubt not, but all of us would herein readily yield ourselves to hear & learn the truth at any such persons, & ourselves to teach the truth to such a people: but to say that such a people are true Churches, or such preachers the true Pastors of true visible Churches that we deny: & that you shall never be able to prove: but if after such preaching by such preachers the L. work with the people, so as that they gladly receive the word, repent, & believe, & desire to walk in the truth, & thereupon do promise to the L. & each to other to walk in his ways, this promise maketh them a true Church: & then if they chose among them men able to lead & seed them, & appoint such men to such office, the men so chosen & appointed are the true Pastors which the Scripture describeth: but what is all this to your assemblies & Ministers? who as yet have not cast of the yoke of Antichristian bondage, whose communion & ministry is not dissolved, but remaineth firm, the same in nature (though much bettered in degree) with the Roman assemblies Ecclesiastical: & whereas you in this particular object to us, that two or three of us Separated from you, & gathered together into the new Testament of Christ, assume power to make Ministers, a practice (as you say) far from plain evidence of Scripture, or any practice of the Church these thousand years: I answer it is no matter for the practice of the Church these thousand years, for Gregory the great Bb. of Rome who lived a thousand years since, hoist up Antichrist into the highest exaltation against God & his Christ in a manner: & his Successors especially Boniface & some other have maintained & enlarged that Antichristian Kingdom even to our days: & yet the mystery of iniquity is exalted in these particulars: wherefore this allegation of yours is nothing to the purpose, if you be a sound protestant: For if prescription of a thousand years be good in any thing, why not in all things? if not in all things then in nothing. And whereas you allege that it is also far from plain evidence of the Scripture, I answer the evidence is plain to them that will understand: & I would know what is plain evidence of Scripture: is not a true natural consequence plain evidence? is not this plain evidence, Math. 18.20. wheresoever two or three shallbe gathered together into my name, I willbe in the midst among them? & this, 2. Corinth. 6.17. be ye Separated, & I will receive you & be your Father: & this. Gallat. 3.16. the promises are made to Abraham and to his seed: So than they that are of Faith are blessed with Faithful Abraham. Gallat. 3.9. If Christ willbe present with two or three of his Disciples: If God will receive them that are Separated, & be their God: if the promises be given to them that believe as Abraham believed: Then Christ is their Christ, God is their Father, the promises are theirs, and the ministry is theirs by plain evidence, than they may assume the ministry & use it as God hath appointed, But for this point read the seventh Section, & the Paral. Censur. Observat. thereto aperteyning. The thirteenth Section. The next point to be handled is your seventh in number, viz. That a minister may be made without Elders (ordinarily I mean) for extraordinary courses are not now to be used for aught I see: this point you blame as error: Let us see whether it be error or not. I hold that a minister may be made without Elders: more plainly I say that when the Church wanteth Elders, the Church hath power to Elect, approve & ordain her own Elders, also: to elect, approve, & ordain her own Deacons both men & women: For if you remember what was before spoken to your fifth position, viz: that the church hath the power of Chr in itself, viz: that it hath Chr. the covenant, & all the promises given to it being yet but few in number, & that the Church hath these things in true title & interest as her own freehold than you shall see what will follow heruppon: namely that the Church hath power to receive in members & cast▪ out members, to receive in her Officers & to dischardg them of office, the church hath power to the preaching of the word to the administering of the seals of the covenant, to binding & losing, which works she cannot do herself being many, therefore she appointeth fit persons thereto, viz: such officers as Christ hath given to his Church, which are the Elders, still notwithstanding reserving her power to herself when occasion shallbe offered: these things are sufficiently proved already in answer to your fifth imputation: but you have some thing perhaps to say for ordination; that the Church hath not power of it: then belike all the promises are not given to the Church, for if ordination be not given to the Church, than the ministry is not given to the Church, for it seemeth you make ordination a great part of the ministery: but know for your learning that ordination doth give nothing at all to the Minister: For election is the ver●e essence & form of the minister: for in election power to administer is given to the officer elect: For when the Church chooseth the minister, doth not the Church in effect say: we give the A. b, power to administer the word, seals of the covenant, & censures in the behalf of the whole Church? & the minister Elect doth then actually possess & assume that power delegated unto him by the Church: so when the Church chooseth her Deacons doth she not in effect speak thus: we give you, c.d.e.f. power to collect, & distribute the Church's Treasury, & to minister for the body & members of the Church in other general services, helpful to the body & outward part: this is evident enough if you will not be blind wilfully: For as in matter of marriage, this is the very form of marriage: I take the formy wife, & I take the for my husband: So in the matter of office this is the very form thereof: we take the for our Pastor: I take you for my flock: & so forth of the rest: now ordination is nothing but the publishing of the officers election with prayer made for him & admonition given to him to be faithful: The Church doth the former which is all in all even the very form, the latter is but the lesser & an accident without which the officer may be a true officer: declare the contrary to this if you can if not yield to the truth. Ob. But you will say the word mentioneth an Eldership which must ordain, & Paul commandeth Titus to ordain Elders, Tit. 1.5. 1. Tim. 4.14. Ans. 1. The place of Timothy compared with 2. Timoth, 1.6. yieldeth this sense, that Timothy by ●he exercise of prophecy wherein he was trained, & by the imposition of the Apostles hands whereby the extraordinary gifts of tongues & prophecy were then usually conferred, had an excellent grace (so the word is in the original) conferred upon him. But let it be granted that Timothy had a ministery conferred unto him, surely it must needs be the office of an Evangelist, & what is that to an ordinary Elders office: Paul only & the Apostles could create Evangelists. Further let it be yielded you that Timothy was made a Bishop of Ephesus by the Eldership of Ephesus, the Eldership in that action did nothing but that which the Church appointed them to, & for the effecting whereof they had power & authority from the Church who is the Fountain of all the power that any officer hath. Ans. 2. To the place of Titus I thus answer, that Titus there is not commanded to ordain ministers, but to constitute Elders: For the word is not to ordain, or to lay on hands, but to constitute: if you understand the Greek tongue you will acknowledge that I say to be true: now to constitute an Elder signifieth Election, approbation, & ordination: not ordination only as the objection importeth: but you know, or else you are a sworn slave to the Prelates, that the Church hath power to Elect & approve her Elders: yet Titus is here commanded to do it: whence we must needs conclude that Titus only should teach & direct the Churches in constituting of her Elders according to the Apostolic institution: which what it was Titus being an Evangelist & well acquainted with the Apostles course, could well tell: & this must needs be the sense of this place, except you have any thing to say against it, which we pray you let us here if there be any thing: you seem in this point to distingnish the calling of Elders; as if there were two manners or forms of calling Elders ordinary & extraordinary: I know no such thing, & therefore I leave that till I see it expounded. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the thirteenth Section. All this thirteenth Section hath for the subject matter of it the ordination or making of ministers, & the question of it is this, viz: whither a company of faithful people gathered into the name of Christ by the voluntary covenant of the new Testament, have not power of themselves to create their own Pastors, & Deacons: Although that which hath been spoken concerning the seventh Section may fully & sufficiently satisfy all this doubt: yet I thought meet to add certain arguments of plain evidence for the further declaration hereof that all scruples & shifts may be taken away. The first Argument. They which have power to enter into, & to assume the New Testament, have also power to assume all the ordinances of the new Testament, & so by necessary consequent the ministry. Two or three faithful people have power to enter into, & to assume the new Testament of Christ: Ergo: two or three faithful people have power to assume all the ordinances of the new Testament, & therefore the ministry. The Minor only is doubtful which may thus be confirmed, Gal. 3. 14-16. where the Apostle saith plainly that the promises were made to Abraham & his seed, viz: to the Faithful, us. 16. that the blessing of Abraham came upon the believing gentiles: us. 14. & that these promises & blessing is the covenant or new Testament, us. 15. whereupon it followeth that seeing the Faithful have the blessing, the promises, the new Testament, therefore they have the power of enjoying the ministry: For the ministry is one part or ordinance of the new Testament. The second Argument. They that have Christ & with Christ all things else: they that have all things aperteyning to life & Godliness: they that have the promise of this life & of the life to come have the power to assume the ministry, for that is a part of Godliness. But the Faithful, be they but two or three, have with Christ all things else, Rom. 8.32. have the promise of life & Godliness, 2. Pet. 1.3. have the promise of this life, & of the life to come, 1. Timoth. 4.8. Ergo: The Faithful though but two or three have power to assume the Ministry. The third Argument. They who have power to examine, & elect their Officers have also power to pray for them, & to command them to minister, which is ordination. But the Scripture teacheth plainly that the Faithful have power to Elect and choose their own Officers: as Deacons, Act. 6. one to be an Apostle, Act. 1.26. Elders, Act. 14. also to approve them: Act. 6.3. 1. Timoth. 3.10. and you confess no less yourself. Ergo: the Scripture teacheth plainly, (& you by consequent grant indeed, though you deny in words) that the Faithful have power to pray for their officers Elect, & to command them to administer: & that is ordination, The Fourth Argument. They that have power to make a Church, have power to make a minister or ministers: For they that can do the greater, can do the less. Two or three Faithful people have power to make a Church. Ergo two or three Faithful people have power to make ministers. The reason of this argument is, for that the Church is the body of Christ, the Spouse of Christ, & the ministry is but one part of the body, one Servant of the Spouse, one of the ornaments of the Church. The Minor is plain: For two or three Faithful people have Christ jesus, have the promises, have the holy things of David, which are Faithful, have the blessing of Abraham, being Abraham's seed & furthermore the Apostle, Heb. 8. 10-12 expounding what the new Testament is teacheth that they that have the Laws of the Lord put in their minds, & written in their hearts, are the people of God, & have God for their God, & so are the Church of the new Testament: Mr. Bern. this point is clearer than can be denied, & all the world can never be able to overthrow it, the understanding & feeling whereof I do partily wish unto your soul, & to all the upright hearted of the Land. The Fifth Argument. They that are the true matter of the Church of the new Testament, shallbe invested with the true form of the new Testament: they that have true matter & form, have the true property which ariseth from the union of matter & form, that is Christ's ministerial power to assume all the means of their edification to Salvation: & so by consequent the ministry. Two or three Faithful people are the true matter of the true Church of the new Testament: & therefore have the true form or covenant of the new Testament induced upon them: & so being a Church subsisting of true matter & form, have the true property arising from the union of the matter & form, viz: the power of our L. jesus Christ; to assume & use all the means of their edification to salvation: & so by consequent have power to assume the ministry. Ergo two or three Faithful people being a true Church, may create, that is Elect, approve, & ordain their own officers. And this may suffice for the proof of this point. The fourteenth Section. And so I pass to another point which is you fourteenth, viz. 14. That baptism is not administered among us simply into the Faith of Christ, but into the faith of the Bbs. or the Church of England. This point you say is also erroneous: let us consider of it I pray you seriously: I would know into what Faith they are baptised if not into the Faith of the church of England, they are members of the Church of England, & they profess the Faith of the Church of England, are they not then baptised into that Faith of the Church whereof they stand as members, & of which Faith they make profession? are they baptised into one Faith, and do they profess another Faith? or do you think that the Faith of Christ & the Faith of the Church of Engeland are not one? me thinks Mr. Bern. you lay a fowl imputation upon your Church: in holding that the Faith of the Church of England is not the faith of Christ, & that baptism is not administered into the Faith of the Church of England respectively, but into the faith of Christ simply. I dare say your Lords the Prelates will con you little thank for this gear: but let us consider of your Faiths: The Prelates & Church of England have one Faith whereto they Subscribe: The Puritans & their Faction have an other Faith, for they will not Subscribe to the Prelate's Faith: Christ & we of the Separation have a third Faith, for we will Subscribe neither to the Bbs. Faith, nor the Puritans Faith, but to the Faith of Christ indefinitely comprehended in the Holy Scriptures: Here now are three Faiths: three Churches: & so three baptisms. But the time Faith is one, the true Church is one, the true baptism one: Therefore you & we have not both the true Faith, Church, & baptism: but we approve unto you our Faith, church, & baptism to be true: & therefore your Faith, Church, & baptism is false: & so certainly it is: For whosoever have stinted their covenant, & limited their repentance, & abridged their Faith, have a false Faith, Covenant & Repentance: but you in your assemblies have your Covenant, Faith, & repentance at the will of the Prelates, & you dare not covenant and practise all that you know, but walk in violating of the whole Kingdom of Christ, are mingled among all the refuse of the Land in your Church, worship, & communion of holy things: therefore your Repentance, Faith, & Covenant is false, your church false, your ministery false, your worship false, your baptism false, the Lords Supper false, all false: & here give me leave to advertise you to look to yourselves that know the will of God & do not nor dare not practise as you know: I wish you consider your own doctrine that whosoever liveth in any open known sin hath no grace: but you live in open known sins: For you know you should reform many things, which you do not nor cannot seeing you want the Censures: how then can you persuade us that your repentance is true, & that your faith is true: you plead you have a true ministry, because you convert souls: you convert souls a pace do you not? when you convert them to your false repentance, false Faith, false Church, false Ministry, false Worship, false Government: is this the conversion whereby you would prove your ministry? not only to live in your false repentance, covenant, Faith, Church, under your false Ministry & Government, but to reject & oppose the truth, & that with such slanderous & lying courses as we hear of you? you must afford us better evidences of your Faith, repentance, & of your true ministery, or else we hold them all false. Consider what I say Mr. Bern. & the Lord give you understanding in all things. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the Fourteenth Section. Against this Section of my Letter Mr. Ber. taketh exception in two particulars, pa. 252. of the Sep. Schism: accounting them both errors. 1. that baptism is not administered into the Faith of Christ simply, but into the Faith of Bbs. or Church of England: (so say I,) 2. That our Faith and repentance, is a false Faith, and a false repentance, (so say I of their visible Faith, not speaking of things secret:) Mr. Ainsw confutat. of Mr. Bern. pag. 159. accounteth both those imputations of Mr. Bern. uncharitable collections, and caluminations: Mr. Ainsw. doth renounce them, I will therefore undertake the defence of them unto whom they aperteyne and here I wish the Reader to observe whither it lay not upon me justly to answer Mr. Be●n. whose whole book in the essential parts of it was directed against this letter of mine as may evidently be perceived as in the whole tenor of it, so especially in these two particulars against which he excepteth in this Section. Now for the first let us consider the intendment of the baptizer: How the Ministers of the Church of England intent their baptism: How the law of the Land intendeth baptism: how the Service-book intendeth & directeth baptism: how the parents' Susceptors or Sureties do demand baptism & consent to baptism administered: & upon the conceiving of these particulars the baptism must be censured: now if all these intent definitely that Faith which is by law established in the Land, & that the party is baptised into that Faith which they intent, it will follow necessarily that baptism is administered not simply & indefinitely into the Faith of Christ, but particularly & definitely into that Faith which the Bbs. & the Church of England do teach & profess: For which consideration an argument may be framed thus. Into that faith are the members of the Church of England baptised, which the Law establisheth: which the Prelates & Ministers teach: which the Church of England professeth: which the minister baptizing intendeth: & whereto the parents, witnesses or Susceptors' consent: & which the Service-book expressly mentioneth. But the law doth not establish: the Prelates & ministers do not teach: the Church of England doth not profess: the baptizer doth not intend: the parents & Susceptors do not consent to: & the Servicebook doth not mention the Faith of Christ simply, but the Faith of Bbs. or Church of England. Ergo, The members of the Church of England are not baptised into the Faith of Christ simply, but into the Faith of the Bbs. or Church of England, which is the false Faith of the baptizer, of the sureties or parents, and so the Faith of the baptism. For the second point let us consider the faith & repentance of the Church of England, I mean of the faith that is visibly professed & expressed in the fruits of repentance among them & thereby we shall know the tree. The faith of that Church is not a true faith which teach & profess a false mediator: & the repentance of that Church is not a true repentance, which practice according to that false doctrine. But the assemblies Ecclesiastical of England with the teachers & professors of them, teach and profess a false Mediator: For they teach that Christ is a Mediator of all that false Church, Ministry, Worship and Government, established in the Land: Sacrificing and making intercession for them in the daily practise all those abominations: Ruling and Governing them by all the Ecclesiastical Hierarchy, and by the courts & canons Ecclesiastical, which are the inventions of the man of sin: Teaching & Prophesying unto them by those Antichristian, Prelates, Priests, & Deacons, which reign in the Land: & so practising according to this false Faith practise a false repentance. Ergo, the Faith of the Church of England, of the teachers & professors thereof, & the repentance of them is not true, but false. But it willbe objected against both these assertions that although one thing be intended in baptism, yet the Lord may admit of & accept another & though they profess & preach falsely, yet the Lord he can & doth no doubt work mervaylously besides all that we can think or speak: Truth I yield it most willingly: & blessed be the Lord for his infinite & unspeakable mercy therein: but we dispute not what God can do of his power or will, do of his mercy, things unknown unto us: but we speak of things revealed and manifested unto us, according whereunto we must walk & judge of matters according to that which we see: according as the word judgeth: according as the Church & members of the Church of England teach, profess, & practise visibly, which is seen & discerned of us, we are to pass our censure: but we judge no man before the time: we do not climb up into God's judgement seat: our Faith is visible: our repentance is visible: our charity visible: our Spirit visible: our baptism visible: our preaching visible: our covenant visible, our Church visible: our judgement visible: things that are revealed aperteyne to us & our Children, that say we is false in the assemblies Ecclesiastical: secret things aperteyne to the Lord: these we leave to the Lord, we meddle not with them: this I desire may once for all be remembered & pondered, & so I end this matter. The fifteenth Section. The next point is your Fourth wherein you do us open injury, viz. 4. In holding that Princes have no more to do in ecclesiastical causes then one of you in a particular congregation: these are your words. Mr. Ber. I challenge you in this particular imputation, to be either a malicious or an ignorant slanderer: For either you know not what we teach concerning Princes authorities, & so slander us ignorantly: or if you know our judgement in that matter you slander us maliciously. Remember that the Prophet in the Psalms complaineth that his enemies digged pits for him, laid snares, grins & nets in his way to catch him ynawares & to bring evil upon him: are you now become such an enemy unto us? do you think by calling into question the Supremacy of Princes imputing therein treason to us to catch us in a snare, & cause us to fall into the pit? if this be your course, thus to hunt the Souls of men, look unto yourself, therein you manifest little grace to me: but let us here the cause you impute to us. you say we hold that princes have no more to do in ecclesiastical causes then one of us in a particular congregation: I say for mine own part, & I think I may say it for all the brethren of our Church, that herein you do shamefully bely us: I will therefore manifest what we hold & teach concerning Princes Supremacy. 1. First, we teach & hold according to the Scriptures that Princes & civil Estates are the Lords blessed ordinance, Rom. 13.2. 2. Secondly, that every Soul ought to be subject unto the civil Magistrates of what estate & condition soever they be, Rom. 13.1. Tit. 3.1. 1. Pet. 2.13. 3. Thirdly, that we must absolutely submit unto the civil Magistrate either to do his lawful commandments, or to suffer his unlawful punishments: by consequence from the former places. 4. Fourthly, that it is unlawful for any subject to make insurrection or rebellion against the civil Magistrates: by consequence from the former places. 5. Fifthly, that it is the Magistrates office to be the keeper of both the tables of the commandments: both to abolish Idolatry & all false ways, also to forbid & punish all unrighteousness as also to command & cause all men within there Dominions to walk in the ways of God, being fitted & prepared thereunto: and that by the examples of David, josaphat, Hezechiah, josiah, Nehemiah, Roman. 13.4.5. Psalm. 101. toto. and 132. 2-5. 6. That a Prince hath power in a particular visible Church, to punish any wickedness any one committeth: and to cause that visible Church to assume & practise any truth God's word teacheth: ex praecedentibus: now this is more authority than any one particular member hath. 7. We teach notwithstanding that Princes if they willbe saved must be members of a true visible Church, & must walk there in the obedience of God's Commandments & ordinances, submitting to the censures for the reformation & salvation of his soul, as well as to the preaching to the Word, administration of the Seals of the covenant, prayers, etc. because God hath appointed but one way to save the Souls of Princes and Subjects. 8. If civil Magistrates be by censures cast out of the true visible Church, yet they are still to be accounted God's ordinance, still to be obeyed in the L. still to be submitted to in regard of their punishment, no rebellion or insurrection to be made against them by any of the Church whatsoever: but prayer to be made for them instantly and daily. Now Mr. Bern. stop your mouth & cease slandering, & take away the poison from under your Tong. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the fifteenth Section. I desire here that the reader would observe carefully: that although Mr. Bern. in his Letter to Mr. Hel. had charged us with this slanderous untruth concerning our disloyalty to Magistrates: yet I having written this Letter unto him, he in this his book sayeth not a word to this Section of my letter: whereas if he had dealt uprightly he should have cleared us in that particular of disloyalty, wherein he charged us falsely: but like a subtle adversary he thought to bring us into disgrace & hatred by all means, & wherein he saw us approvable therein he craftily forsaketh us: & leaveth us to the obloquy of the world, which usually lay this false imputation of disloyalty upon us: well let Mr. Bern. & all men know, especially all lawful civil Magistrates of what degree soever, that the Churches of the Separation are in their judgements as sound, & in their hearts as loyal & dutiful unto Princes & civil States, as the best prelate of England, & that the more popelike they are the more traitorous they will prove unto the civil Magist. & that if they be let alone, they with the Pope at the length will take upon them: Petrus dedit Petro, Petrus diadema Radolpho, & cause the Emperor to hold the stirrup. The sixteenth Section. Your fifteenth point followeth: which is this, viz. 15. That ministers ought only to live of voluntary contribution & not of stippends, or any set maintenance: this you impute to us: we reject it, for we hold it lawful for the Elders of the Church to receive weekly, monthly, or yearly a pension of the Church for their labours, all that we teach concerning the maintenance of the ministery is this. 1. That it is unlawful for the Elders of the Church to challendg at the hands of them that are infidels & unbelievers, tithes, & offerings as you do. 2. We hold that tithes are either jewish or popish, 3. That the officers of the visible Church may receive any gift of any Friend that is without, & live of it. 4. That the officers of the Church in the necessity of the Church ought to work for their living, as Paul made tents. 5. That the officers of the Church may challendg maintenance of the Church, if the Church be able to yield it. 6. That also the poor of the Church may require maintenance upon the same grounds for we are all members one of another, & have all things common in use, though not in possession: all these particulars are plain by these Scriptures, Heb. 7.12. & 9.9. Act. 2, 44.45. 1. Cor. 9. 1-15. Gal. 6.6. & 4.9.10. Col. 2.16.17.20.21. This is the substance of that we hold herein and therefore Mr. Bern. you do us open wrong in this point also. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the sixteenth Section. Mr. Bern. pag. 136. of the Sep. Schism avoucheth that to deny tithes, & a set maintenance to Ministers is contrary to the Lords wisdom, who under the law appointeth tithes a set maintenance, & there is nothing against it in the gospel: I answer with the Apostle, the old Testament (I do not mean the writings of the Law, the Prophets, & the Psalms) and the ordinances thereof are abolished: The bond woman and her Children are cast out, Gallat. 4.30. and if there be a chandg of the priesthood there must needs be a chandg of the law, Heb. 7.12. wherefore seeing set stipends by tithes were a part of these worldly ordinances of the old Testament, of those impotent & beggarly rudiments, of that yoke of bondage whence Christ hath set us free: It followeth that set maintenance by tithes is abolished by Christ & as the liberty of the gospel is to be carefully preserved in other things, as in that of circumcision, of the , of the priesthood, of the Sacrifices and the res●●▪ So must it be carefully preserved even in this particular of se● maintenance by tithes, for if any Mosaical, impotent, beggarly rudiment, ●r worldly ordinance: if any part of the yoke of bondage may be joined with Chris●, why not all? if not all, why may any? Again whereas you say there is nothing against set maintenance by tithes in the New Testament, I demand two things: 1. Vhither Christ hath not abolished the Mosaical ordinances & brought in the New Testament? & whither this be not contrary to set maintenance by tithes? 2. whither we ought not to have something for set maintenance by tithes in the New Testament, (if it must be retained) that we upon faith may submit unto it? Seeing that what soever is not of Faith is sin: So that this speech of yours, viz: there is nothing against it in the gospel, is both false, & if it were true, yet is insufficient, seeing that it is not a good plea to say there is nothing against it, except we can also say, that there is something for it: & thus much for this point. The sevententh Section. Your sixteenth point followeth, viz. 16. That our Churches ought to be razed down, & not to be employed to the worship of God: we are not absolute & peremptory in this: only this we think for the present that all the relics, shapes, forms, memorial, instruments, & remembrances of Antichristian Idolatry ought now as well to be defaced, as in the old Testament ought Relics of paganism, because that the proportion of paganism & Antichristianisme is equal, therefore the L. calleth Rome & all Antichristian assemblies, Babylon, Egypt Sodom, Apoc. 18.2. & 11.8. & Antichristians are called by the same reason, Gentiles, Apo. 11.2. even Babylonians, Egyptians, Sodomites & so by consequent proportion the Temples Babylonish Temples, pagan Temples, Egyptian Temples, Sodomitish Temples: & therefore to be defaced utterly according to the commandment, Deut 7.5.6. & 12.2. judg. 2.2. Gen. 35 14. 2. King. 10.27.28. & 18.4.5. Psal. 16.4. Exod. 23.13. Esay. 30.22. the same may be said of your holidays, your tithes & offerings, your Surplices, Copes, Crosses, Fonts, & all other Superstitious relics, that God will not be honoured by instruments of Idolatry: nor Idols must not be so much honoured as to retain a nail or pin of them or their implements to honour God with all: Let us see Mr. Bernard what you can say, to convince us of error: You see the reasons that move us thus to think till we see better. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the sevententh Section. Although Mr. Ainsw. hath sufficiently stopped your mouth Mr. Bern. in this particular, yet I think it not amiss to add thus much, for further cleared of the matter: know therefore, that as jehu turned the Temple of Baal into a jakes after he had defaced it, 2. King 10.27. and as Hezechiah broke in pieces the brazen Serpent, the Lords own ordinance being abused to Idolatry, 2. King. 18, 4. So the Kings of the earth should do well to follow the Holy Ghosts prophecy, Revel. 17.16. even to make the whore of Babylon desolate, and naked, to eat her Flesh, and burn her with fire: and not to suffer her wares, that is her vessels of wood, Ivory, Brass, Iron, marble, to be bought any more: which I am persuaded shall in due time be accomplished: that as the goodly buildings of the abbeys, Monasteries, & Nunneries, are already destroyed, & made barns, stables, swineslyes, jakes, so shall it be done with all the Idol Temples when the hour of their visitation shall come: & whereas you object for the justifying of the use of the Idol Temples, that seeing Antichrist sitteth in the Church of God, that therefore when the Idol Temples were built, the Church took possession of them to keep possession for the Lord in his creatures, thereby concluding a lawful use of them now for the Church restored, I answer you: your ground is faulty, & therefore your building tottereth: the place of the Apostle, 2. Thes. 2.4, where it is said that Antichrist sitteth in the Temple of God, is falsely by you conceived & interpreted, for it doth not import that (as you would have it), antichrist's Church, & the true Church of Christ are one & the same, & that the same company of men can be, and are, both the true visible Church of Christ, & at that same time the Church of Antichrist: this is impossible: for the true Church is not the false Church. But this is the meaning, viz: either that Antichrist shall sit in the consciences of men which is properly the Temple of God: Or that Antichrist shall arise up out of that company of men which once were the Temple of God, as Rome was: or that the Church being true in the constitution, Antichrist shall foist into it by little and little his false ministry, Worship, and Government, as experience teacheth he hath done: For a true Church may have Antichristian ordinances retained & raised up in it: this being the true meaning of the Apostle, how can you hence conclude sound that the true Church took possession of the Temples, which the false Church of Antichrist built? Seeing the true Church is not the false Church, & seeing that the temples were built in the palpable darkness of gross popery, some of them perhaps dedicated to heathen Idols, some of them to Antichristian Idols, as there He, & she Saints; all of them to Devils. For if jeroboams Priests were appointed for Devils, 2. Chron. 11.15. & if the Antichristian priests are the Spirit of Devils, Revel. 16.14. & the worship of Antichristians the worship of Devils, Revel. 9.20. & the Antichristian Churches the habitation of Devils, Revel. 18.2. than the Temples are dedicated to Devils: not that they intended so to dedicate them. but for that they are so indeed the Lord accounting that to be done to the Devil, which is not done to him as he hath commanded: & the Devil substituting himself in God's place, when men go a whoring after their own inventions: therefore the Apostle saith plainly that the Gentiles Sacrifice to Devils, 1. Cor. 10.20. to conclude this point therefore, & so to leave you to meditate upon these things: the Gentiles Sacrifice to Devils, seeing the Antichristians worship Devils, seeing jeroboams priests were appointed for Devils: & yet all these intended to worship God even the true God: than it followeth that though the Antichristians did intend to dedicate their Temples to the true God (which yet is not granted) nevertheless they were dedicated to Devils: & therefore are to be razed down & converted to the habitation of Limb, & Zijm, satires, Shrich ●●yles, & Raveas as the Prophet speaketh Esay. 34. 8-15. The eighteenth Section. Your first point now cometh in the last place to be considered, viz. 1. In separating from all the reformed Churches: you say we do ill: Let us consider what we hold: Surely we say the Churches are of two sorts, false Churches such as yours of worksop is, & all others of like fashion: 2. true Churches, & those also of two sorts: pure, wherein no open known sin is suffered corrupt, wherein some one or more known sin is tolerated: to the true Churches which are pure we may & will join: to the true Churches which are corrupt we carry ourselves thus: First, we labour to discover their faults unto them, admonishing them to reform which we are bound to do, because they are our brethren. Secondly, if they will not reform after we have convinced their errors unto them, we depart from them lest we should partake with their sins: this is our judgement, & practise: if you can reprove it, let us here from you we pray you. Parallels, Censures, Observations, aperteyning to the eighteenth Section. Here I desire the Gentle Reader not to be offended that we endeavouring to walk in the liberty of the gospel, do not tie ourselves to any Church or Churches whatsoever, but only to the rules of God's word: & therefore howsoever it may seem odious that we Separate from all churches, yet the causses being indifferently considered, the matter will seem reasonable, for we Separate from all Churches upon several reasons, 1. From some (such as are the English Churches) we Separate for the Falsehood of them: & that is a just cause in any indifferent man's judgement, 2. from other (such as are the Reformed Churches) we Separate not for that they are false, but for that being true they are corrupt: & herein our Separation is not total but for a time, till we have performed our duties unto them: when we have therefore admonished them of their corruptions & they repent, than we join in communion with them: if they repent not we leave them to the Lord: & we must needs keep ourselves unspotted, & take heed that we partake not with other men's sins, The nintenth Section. And now Mr. Bern. suffer me a little to deal with you as with one of whom I have thought so well as I have done: it greeveth my Soul for you to see you so strangely seduced by Satan, & so violently carried in your boisterous & robustious disposition against the truth, & the professors thereof: it hath grieved me heretofore to see you arrogant, proud & ambitious carriage preferring yourself in place before men both more ancient, holy, & learned then yourself in the judgement of all that know you & them it hath grieved me to hear such calumnies as you have in the bitterness of your wrath uttered against diverse of us which I could relate to your eternal infamy, but I spare you: it hath grieved me to hear your formality that you are become an absolute conformitant in judgement, & that you would be so in practice if some persons hindered you not: it greeveth me exceedingly to see some Letters of yours wherein you & your Disciples lying at the advantage take all things in the evil part, pervert & misconstrue men's writings manifesting therein much perverseness of Spirit: it greeveth me above all that you should support the Kingdom of Antichrist; by your writings against the truth, & by your untruth uttered of me & others, You have now two writings of mine in your hands this & the other you know of, wherein our cause is discovered, which I have especially directed to you for your good: I beseech yo● in the name of the L. look to yourself & search into this truth, I wonder you should not see it, it is clearer to me then noon day, or if you see it as it seemeth you once did by your confession, than I wonder much more that you who seem so holy as you do, should dare to continue in your evil way. if you have any thing to say in answer to this & the other writing let us here from you: take heed of wresting & misconstruing my writings: you shall gain nothing by it I assure you at my hands: set your conscience upon the wrack before the Lord, examine your heart what hindereth you from the truth: know this that if any sinister respect hinder you, you therein shall find little peace to your conscience, & declare less thankfulness to God: know it would be the greatest honour ever befell you to be one of the Lords witnesses, & it willbe the greatest disgrace that can possible light up on you to be found one of those that fight against the lamb jesus Christ in resisting his truth, & the witnesses thereof: assure yourself God's truth will prevail in despite of all the gainsayers: remember that our cause is the same in a manner with the Puritan cause, only they dare not practise as we do remember that the Lord hath had those that have spilled their blood in this testimony, & their blood & testimony hath stirred us up to this our witness: consider that this truth prevaileth daily, & shall prevail: it was opposed in the Queen's days it hath prevailed & standeth in despite of all the gainsayers: consider that though the Prelates & you with your fellow Priests oppose against it, yet it hath grown to this head as you see: what are you Mr. Bern. to oppose against it: you are a simple man in comparison of them that have dealt against it, & have taken the foil, All the Oxford Doctors, Mr. Hildershan, Mr. jacob, Mr. Bredwel, Mr. Giffard, could not with their writings overthrow this truth, & do you think that you can batter it with your mediocrity? nay you are to young to deal against this cause: all your rage & wrath, & choler, & revendge shall never be able to daunt us, or to diminish the credit of God's truth: you had need more than any man I know in your way to walk in this way with us: For you have so many vagaries to & fro, so many rebellious courses, so many distempered affections & speeches, that so long as you are not under the L. yoke, & unhampered by the L. ordinances the censures of the Church, you shall find little rest to your Soul: we for our part care not for your help, for our gain willbe little by you, if any thing at all, but we respect your own good: God hath no need of you, you see he can work his work without you: Let these things work upon you, take heed you be not deceived by the applause of the multitude, nor by the Prelates fair words, nor by his angels: Remember that if you receive not the love of the truth God may deliver you over justly to believe lies to your own overthrow: think not, much that I writ thus unto you: I do it out of compassion and love to you, unto whom I wish so well: David was content to be smitten by the righteous, and flattery I think overthroweth you: your Parasites have rob you of your wisdom: believe me I speak the truth: So requiring your answer to both my writings I bid you farewell. Here endeth the letter which was written to Mr. B. divided into 19 Sections, with the Parallels, Censures, & Observations, aperteyning to every particular Section thereof. Thus have I Mr. Bern. passed through the substantial part of your book, which concerns the cause itself: which although you have placed in the last place, namely from gag. 78. forward, yet I thought meet to make answer to it in the first place, because it is the most material part of your book: and herein you have used a notable piece of Sophistical Rhetoric, first to draw our persons into dislike with your readers, and so to prejudicated & forstal their minds against our cause: For so it falleth out customably that the person being dislliked the cause cannot be entertained: wherefore after you had collected all your superficial stuff, all the accidental conjectures which you heap up in your book from pag. 21. to 78. and had cast them in the Readers way, whereat he might stumble: them you come from pag. 78. to the end, to the matter, & varnish that also as well as you can, thereby thinking utterly to pervert your Reader from the truth: well Mr. Bern. I have through the mercy of God answered all the substantial points of your book: not omitting one to my knowledge that is worth answer: but especially I have laboured to manifest the main cause of our Separation, the first foundation & rock of truth, which is, that Christ's ministerial power is given to two or three Faithful ones, who are the true seed of Abraham, to whom the promises, the covenant of the New Testament, Christ, & all the holy things are given: For this is the groundwork & Foundation of the L. truth: & this I beseech all the land, all the faithful of the land especially to look unto: & if they yield this ground they must needs Separate: if they deny this ground, then there is no footing for them but in Succession, & the Pope's chair: So that here is the controversy, here is the state of the Question, whither the holy things with Christ be given originally to the body of the Church to the Faithful: or whither the holy things with Christ be given to the Ministry originally, & that the Church hath all from the ministry: & that is the point of succession: I beseech you Mr. Bern. & all the honest hearted people of the Land to weigh & determine this point in their own hearts, & then your book willbe found to be but froth: now having answered your main matter: I come to answer your probabilities against the Sep. schism: From the pag. 21-44. you propound 7. Likelihoods that the way of the Separation is not the truth which probabilities may be framed into these forms of reasoning. The first Likelihood against the Sep. is thus framed. Novelty is not the truth: The Separation is Novelty, go not the truth: For answer to this argument: I ask, whither Luther's & Calvins' opinions were false, because they were new: For popery had the prescription of a thousand years against Calvin: but Calvin hath not had the prescription of an hundredth years against the Separation: nay I suppose not above fifty years: & may not the Prelate's reason against the Puritan thus: or the papists against the Protestants? wherefore although I will not scoff at this argument, yet I pity your simplicity in it: but I altar your argument, and frame another after this manner against you, Antiquity is the truth: The Separation is true antiquity: go: the truth, the reason of this Argument is for that we approve the Doctrine and practice of separation from the beginning out of the writings of the Holy Apostles: and on the contrary I reason thus against your Protestancy: Novelty is not the truth: The ministry, worship, & government of the protestant churches of England are Novelty go: Not the truth that all these things are novelty, I prove because they are not of the primitive Apostolic institution as I have sufficiently proved in the former Treatise: Thus much for your first Likelihood. The second Likelihood against the Sep. is thus framed. They that in some things agree with ancient Heretics & Schismatics, are Heretics & Schismatics, & their opinions heresy & Schism. The Sep: in some things agree with ancient Heretics & Schismatics. Ergo, they are Heretiq. & Schismatiq. & their opinions heresy & Schism. I answer by this arg I can prove you Mr. Bern. to be an Heretic and schismatic, except you will renounce the Deity, and Trinity, the fall of Adam, redemption by Christ, etc. For I can prove that Heretics, yea most vild Heretics have held these opinions with you: if my argument be not good against you, neither is yours good against us, besides you should, counting us to agree with ancient Heretics & Schismatics, have proved two things, 1. that they were indeed & in truth Heretics and Schismatics, for holding the points that we hold, 2. you should have set down the particulars wherein we agree with them: but you have done neither of them: & therefore fail in your proof: and so let this Likelihood also pass as a matter not worth taking up. The third Likelihood against the Sep. is framed thus. That is not the truth, the Teachers, & professors whereof sometime do give strange expositions, & thereby do wrest the Scriptures. The Teachers & professors of the Separation do strangely expound & wrest the Scriptures sometime. Ergo, the Separation is not the truth. I answer: First do you expound no Scripture strangely to the Papists: do not they instantly defend against you all, that you shamefully wrest those two places of Scripture, Mat. 16.18. upon this rock will I will build my church. 1. Cor. 11.24. this is my body: yea & a hundredth more besides? if therefore the argument be good for you against us, it is good for the Papists against you: but the argument is nought: For may not a company of men have the truth & sometime through ignorance misinterpret, & so pervert the Scripture? it may be so undoubtedly, except you will say that men professing the truth have in them (as the Pope saith he hath in Scrinio pectoris) the infallibility of expounding Scriptures, as the Apostles & Prophets had in writing Scripture: & except you will say that men have the perfect & full knowledge of the Scripture: but secondly what are the Scriptures we do strangely expound & wrest: I require you Mr. Bern, before the Lord to produce the places of Scripture that I do wrest & pervert, & either I will acknowledge my sin, or else justify them to be truly expounded: in the mean time the reader may see that this is but simple stuff, & the Papists can take it up every whit against you. The 4. Likelihood against the Sep. is framed thus. They that are not approved by the Reformed Churches, have not the truth. The Sep. is not approved by the Reformed Churches. Ergo, The Separation is not the truth. I answer: That seeing the Separation have published the confession of their Faith where in they have by name desired the approbation of the universities of the Reformed Churches, either by writing or silence, & the said Christian universities have not disallowed that their confession though long since published, their silence is therefore in all equity to be accounted their consent: & Mr. junius his silence what is it else to be esteemed but consent? but suppose that all the men upon earth should disallow the Separation, if the Reformed Churches of Corinth, Rome, Thessalonica, Galatia, & the scaven Churches of Assa, the Mother Church of jerusalem planted by Christ, john Baptist, & the Apostles, all of them being of one & the same primitive Apostolic constitution, if I say the Separation have the allowance & approbation of these Apostolic Churches it shallbe sufficient for them: & therein they shall rest contented by my consent. In the mean season you for get that your Church is utterly disallowed by the reformed Churches in regard of your prelacy, which is one of the chief abominations among you: & in many other particular which I shall not need to relate: but remember for a conclusion for this point: The stone which the builders refused is become the chief corner stone: & I appeal unto your consciences if you do not think the Churches of the Separation better than your own & then tell me how you can stay in a worse knowing a better. The 5. Likelihood against Sep, may be framed thus. Whatsoever Mr. Whittakers', Mr. Perkins, Mr. Bredwel. Mr. Willat, Mr. Allison, Mr. Cartwright, Mr. james, Mr. Rogers, Mr. H. Smyth saith of the Separation is true. These foresaid learned men say the Sep. is not the truth. Ergo, The Separation is not the truth. I make another argument like unto this which shallbe your answer. Whatsoever, Herod, Pontius Palate, Annas, & caiphass, the learned Scribes & Pharisees, Tertullus the Orator and all the learned men of the Church of the jews say is true, that is true. These persons all of them with one consent say that Christian Religion is Heresy and schism, as you may see in the History of the Gospel & acts. Ergo, Christian Religion is Heresy & schism, If this argument be faulty then is yours faulty much more: but I will reason thus for the Separation & against you: whatsoever Christ the Apostles the Holy Scripture 〈◊〉 the Primitive Apostolic Churches collected of the jews & Gentiles do allow or disallow, is to be allowed or disallowed: The separation is allowed, & the Church, ministry, worship & Government of the English assemblies is disallowed by these foresaid persons. Ergo, The sep. is to be allowed, & you are to be disallowed. The minor of this argument is proved in this book which I present to every honest heart of the Land, to be measured by the golden reed. But me thinks Mr. Bern. should blush at his Logic. The 6. Likelihood against Separation may be framed thus. They have not the truth that are judged of the Lord. The separation is judged of the Lord. Ergo: The Separation hath not the truth, & again. They have the truth that are prospered by God in their course. The English Protestants are prospered in their course. Ergo, The English Protestants have the truth. I answer: That this is false doctrine: For the wiseman saith Eccles. 9. 13. That prosperity or adversity are no signs of love or hatred, & jerem. 12.1, 2. that the wicked are in prosperity: and 1. Pet. 4.17. judgement beginneth at God's house: This your reason therefore is most absurd & false, & is fit to breed Atheism, & overthrow the whole truth of the Scriptures: but let us see what judgements are upon the Separation: you frame them thus. If Mr. Bolton that Apostated did hang himself: if Mr. Harison & Mr. Browne did differ, & one fell back: if Mr. Barrow & Mr. Greenwood, for calling you serpents, generations of Wipers, were martyred by the persecuting Prelates: if Mr. johnson pronounced excommunication against his brother: & if the Church excommunicated the Father: if Mr. Burnet died of the Plague: if Mr. Smyth was delivered twice from the Pursuivant, & was sick almost to death, & doubted of the Separation for 9 months space: then the Separation is not the truth. But all these things befell Mr. Bolton, Mr. Browne, Mr. Harison, Mr. johnsons, Mr. Burnet, Mr. Smyth. Ergo: The separation is not the truth. I answer: The Churches of England have had thousand thousands of such accidents as these are befalling their Officers and Leaders, and yet as it were folly in us to allege them against you as the Papists do: so it is no wisdom but weakness of judgement in you to mention them in your book against us: What is it good reasoning to say? judas hanged himself, Christ was Crucified for blasphemy: Demas embraced the world: Nicholas the Deacon proved an Heretic: Paul and Barnabas fell out: Paul charged Peter and Barnabas with dissembling: Peter denied Christ: All the Apostles were put to death for heresy. Ergo, the Christian Religion is 〈◊〉 be false, yours false: yet this is your goodly reason: if this be a good argument where is your Faith 〈◊〉. But in this Likelihood you have a sting at me in particular Mr. Ber. charging me with diverse untruths, which I will manifest. 1. That I doubred 9 months I acknowledge: but that ever I did acknowledge the separation for truth, & separated from the English assemblies, & then returned again unto them (which you say) I do utterly deny, & I appeal to the town of Ganesbrugh, & those there that knew my footsteps in this matter: & therefore herein I indite you as a public slanderer. 2. Whereas you say I became satisfied at Coventree after conference had with certain Ministers, and hereupon kneeled down and praised God: I answer: I did not confer with them about the separation as you & they know well enough in your consciences: but about withdrawing from true Churches, Ministers, and Worship, corrupted: Wherein I received no satisfaction, but rather thought I had given instruction to them: and for kneeling down to praise God I confess I did, being requested to perform the duty at night after the conference by the Ministers: but that I praised God for resolution of my doubts, I deny to death and you therein are also a slanderer: I praised God for the quiet & peaceable conference, & such like matters, & desired pardon of the L. for ignorances, & errors, & weakness of judgement, & any disordered carriage: if the ministers that heard my prayers & praises of God did misconstive my meaning let them look unto it. 3. Whereas you impute an absurdity to me as yet unanswered, viz: that I should affirm the spit whereon the passeove was roasted was the Altar: I say: seeing the was a sacrifice, Marc. 14.12. & that every sacrifice hath an altar, either the spit was the altar, or else it had no altar: Now ●el me which is the Likeliest of the two? & if this be a reasonable speech that the wooden cross was the Altar whereon Christ was sacrified, why may not by a good reason, the spit be the altar of the ? the sacrifice was not slain upon the altar, but it was burnt upon the altar: so that was not the altar whereupon the was killed, but whereupon it was burnt or roasted: Mr. Bern. I do confidently affirm against you, that the spit was as much the altar to the , as the cross was an altar to Christ: & let me hear what you in your best Logic can say against it. The 7. Likelihood against the Sep. is framed thus. The truth increaseth in short space into a multitude. The Separation doth not increase, but is kept under. Ergo, the Separation is not the truth. I answer you Mr. Bern. that this is but a popish argument: & Christ saith his Flock is but a little Flock: but how very many years hath the cause of the Separation had ill success? Forsooth 20. or 30. years: alas as Mr. Be. what increase hath the Prelacy gotten in the world this hundredth veeres? they say that is the truth against the Presbytery: what increase hath puritanism gotten this 20. or 30. years in England: yet they say that is the truth against the Prelacy: is not the cause of the Reformists almost dead and buried? but know Mr. Bern. that the cause of the Separation being the same in the main grounds, and essential parts with the Reformed Churches, it hath had infinite increase ever since Luther's time: and whereas you object here that we leave our country without leave: I answer that you know the Law of the Land doth banish us all: and if Abraham did lawfully pass from one country to another people, I●se no reason that we may not do so: & though Israel could not get from Egypt, nor judah from Babylon being detained by violence in captivity, yet the Lord in working their deliverance declareth that he will have his people departed where they may freely profess it without let or disturbance: beside you do pervert the Prophet Ezechiell his speeeh: Cap. 3.6. For was not jonas sent to Nineveh: were not the jews carried into captivity? were not the Apostle sent to all Nations? did all the Corinth's speak with strange tongues? is it unlawful to send men to convert the Pagans? but the meaning of Ezechiell is that though the jews understand his preaching yet they will not believe: & the strangers (viz them of Tyrus & Sidon as Christ saith) would sooner believe him then the jews, for a Prophet is not without honour save in his own country: & so the place is misconstrued by you. Finally whereas you object that the L. leaveth a curse behind us in the Land, I say that is an argument that it is the truth we profess, which because it is not entertained doth therefore prove the savour of death unto death, and hardeneth the heart of that people where it hath been offered and is refused: & thus much briefly of your froth. In the next place you bring us reasons of more force then bare probabilities, whereby you confess that your 7. Likelihoods are of little force, which I desire the reader to take notice of, that the alleging of them by Mr. Ber. argueth an ill mind seeing he confesseth them to be of small force against our cause. The first reason against sep. may be framed thus. That way is not the truth which teacheth to renounce the constitution, ministry, worship, & Government of the English assemblies Ecclesiastical as false: & so in respect thereof to separate from them & all spiritual communion with them: & to entertain the true constitution, ministry, worship, and Government of the Apostolic institution. The way of the separation teacheth thus much. Ergo, the way of the separation is not the truth. I answer: if the scriptures approve this which we teach of you & of ourselves, then is your arg. worth nothing: now whither the separation be the truth or not I refer me to the scriptures, whereby I desire that which I have written may be examined, & if it be sound sound let it be entertained, if not, follow the truth whatsoever it be: & whereas you say here that men in separating from you must cast of the word which begat them, I deny it, & you are a slaundeter herein: For we retain all truth that you have, & we reject only your Antichristianisme: & for acknowledging your Faith, repentance, baptism false I say it is necessary, but understand that we speak of your things that are visible, & leave things invisible to the Lord: & for that objection you make from our own confession that we say our Separation is only for corruptions, I say it is truth: but yet know that your corruptions are essential: and effential corruptions corrupt the essence of things, & make them false: viz. when the matter is essentially corrupted, or the form, etc. as a mule procreated of an horse & an ass: Now such is your Church, Ministry, worship, & Government, as is already proved sufficiently. The 2. reason against Sep is framed thus. That way is not the truth, which teacheth the professors thereof to entertain and join with open wicked, obstinate sins & sinners. The Separation Teacheth men so to do. Ergo, The Separation is not the truth. I answer: That the truth may be the truth though men that profess it walk never so wickedly in it: neither doth it follow because the Churches of the Separation walk corruptly, therefore the Separation is not the truth: you know Mr. Bern. that this is but sophistry, & hereby you might prove the Doctrine of Christ not to be the truth, because the Corinth's had contentions, incest, fornication, drunkenness & heresy among them: & what say you to yourselves who have as many thousand obstinate sins & sinners in the land as there be men of the Separation among us? is your way therefore error? For the force of this argument therefore I refer me to your own conscience, & to every indifferent man's censure. Well: Let us see what obstinate sins & sinners are in the Separation: the sins are these as you reckon them up, 1. unthankfulness, 2. spiritual uncharitableness, 3. abusing the Scriptures, 4. Obstinacy in schism, 5. Railing & scoffing, 6. false opinions or Brownisme, & the persons persisting in these sins are (you say) obstinate wicked. Let us handle these things in order. 1. Unthankfulness to God that regenerated us by the word among you, & unto the Church of England our mother that bore us, in calling her an harlot: I answer: what truth the Lord hath wrought inwardly in us we do thankfully aknowledg: & I for my part do profess that in your assemblies I received the seeds of true faith invisible, which (if I had died not knowing the Separation) should I doubt not through God's mercy have been effectual to my justification & salvation in Christ: but this was so invisibly judging according to the inward feeling of my heart, not according to the outward censure of the word: For though I could truly judge so of myself out of mine own feeling, yet I deny other men could so judge of me judging truly according to the Scriptures. & this I suppose none of the Separation will deny: This is the thankfulness which we can yield, & do yield to God daily: but for our visible conversion we learned it not from you: & therefore we deny any thankfulness to be due unto you for it: neither do we acknowledge the church of England our mother therein, but we say she is barren & beareth no children unto the L. in respect thereof. 2. Sin you impute to us is spiritual uncharitableness apearing first in censuring 3. sorts of persons among you, 1. The ignorant as blinded by the God of the world, 2. judging them that know the Separation, & do not yield unto it as fearful persons & worldlings, 3. such as tasting of it & falling back are censured as Apostates by us: well Mr. Bern. if the way of the Separation be the truth (as it is proved to be) than I know not why it is uncharitableness thus to censure you: For it is but the censure of the holy Ghost in the scriptures, & in censuring of you herein we manifest no more uncharitableness toward you then the Scriptures teach. & take heed you do not blaspheme the scriptures censure through us. Secondly, our uncharitableness appeareth (say you) in our ungodly desire to have the word utterly extinguished among you & Egyiptian darkness to come over you rather than it should be preached by your false ministry: I answer you by making a demand which is this: of two sins, viz: of murder or adultery which is to be chosen? I suppose you will answer, neither of them, & that truly: so say I for this particular: if it be demanded whither we would that the word should be utterly extinguished, or preached by your false ministry, I make answer: we would neither of them: but we desire both that your false ministry were dissolved, & that the word might by the King's commandment, or allowance, or permission be preached throughout his dominions by men fitted thereto: wherefore in this point I challendg you for an uncharitable slanderer of us: and here you digress to prove that the word may be preached without a true constitution of a Church: & that preaching is more necessary than a true constitution: I confess it unfeignedly & most heartily: neither came the contrary into the thoughts of the brethren of the Separation I suppose: For certainly the true constitution must be taught, & men must be brought to the faith, before the Church can be constituted: & this is it which we must labour for, that first the word be preached by men of able gifts, & that men be taught & converted to the Faith, & then they be established into the new Testament of Christ but you have done & do practise the contrary: First, you have established them into an Antichristian communion & constitution jumbling together all the people of the Land, of what Religion or condition soever, & then you set over them a false ministry, & then teach them still to hold & retain that Antichristian constitution, ministry worship, & government, placed over them: & wholly to reject any reformation offered: & in this your disgression you ●unne out into another calumny, viz: that some of us are so in dislike with your Church, as that we would rather entertain popery, then return to you again: For myself I confess my thoughts & speeches have been & are to this purpose, that whensoever I return to keep communion with the English assemblies acknowledging them true Churches, & their Ministry true, then must I also of necessity acknowledge Rome to be a true constituted Church, & their ministry true: For your Church & ministry are of the same nature & kind, though of diverse degrees of corruption, yours being much refined from infinite dross which is still remaining with them. Now if I should return to succession, & so acknowledge, the East churches of the Grecians, and the West Churches of Rome, & her Daughters whereof England is one (for Rome is the Mother-Church.) to be true Churches, yet I would make my choice there to join where are fewest corruptions: & so rather return to you then to Rome: & therefore herein I suppose also you are but a slanderer, in advancing a false report, Psalm. 15.3. wherefore briefly I say, to desire your reformation, & the truth to be practised among you, is neither hatred of you (as you strongly plead) nor any uncharitable desire to have the truth extinguished, and popery entertained, as you most uncharitably suggest unto your Reader. Thirdly, our uncharitableness appeareth (you say) in this that we envy that good things prosper with you: wretched man that you are thus to slander & calumniate us falsely: I profess that I wish from my Soul, that every Formalist in the Land were a Reformist, & that every Reformist were of the Separation, & this is all the hurt that we wish unto you: whereas you object that the Separation, & this is all the hurt that we wish unto you: whereas you object that the Separation scoff at your Religious exercises and your conversion: I do detest scoffing, & if I myself have at any time scoffed I do proclaim my repentance for it unto you & the whole Land: yet know that scoffing at Baal's priests was lawful in Elias, if you call scoffing an Eironie: neither do we scoff at any thing that is good, but at your irrecoverable stiffness in your corrupted courses: neither is this ei●onie used as a mock to disgrace you, but as a means to reform you as Elias his eironie was: again you say we pray not for your Ministers, but wish discontentment, that men may thereby come to the Separation: I answer we pray for the Ministers and people, that they may repent and yield to the truth: and we wish that men may be discontented with their corrupt and evil ways, which is the high way to repentance: but we wish no man through discontentment of poverty, or reproach, or disgrace to fall from any truth, as it seemeth you have done from Puritanisme to the Prelate's faction & conformity: Further you urge uncharitableness in hasty excommunications for small matters: I answer, (not for others) but for our particular Church of the Separation, that we do not use excommunication as a matter of hatred, but of love, neither do we excommunicate any man but for fin convinced, and that after once and twice admonition, and that is not hastily: and whereas you teach us not to excommunicate for every sin we do practise your advertisement: but if you will have us retain in our communion any sinner wilfully impenitent and peevishly obstinate sin, we answer, that we abhor your counsel, and we think such persons fit for your Antichristian Synagogues, then for the true Church of Christ, which is a communion of Saints only. Again, you censure the Separation of uncharitableness for excommunicating them that here the word of your Ministers: I deny it except they continue impenitent in that sin: and then indeed we do: and the reason is, because we hold according to the truth, that you are false Churches, and false Ministers, and that we ought not to have any Spiritual communion with Idols: and do you think that impenitency in Idolatry is not worthy excommunication? and do you think that impenitency in Idolatry is not worthy excommunication? and for that you say it is no sin to hear the true word of any man: I ask whither you think it lawful to hear the Popish priests preach, & to pray with them: if it be unlawful than you are answered: and the Lord forbiddeth to hear false Prophets. Deut. 13.3. & the Apostle willeth to Separate from such as teach false Doctrine, 1. Timoth. 6. 3-5. to reject an Heretic after once and twice admonition: Tit. 3.10. and not to give entertayment to the false teachers. 2. john. 10. Here I omit your gibe of the annoyning which is the Holy Ghost, that the Apostle saith the Faithful have to teach them all truth, whereby the brethren of the Separation presume (as you say) to teach wanting gifts: & refer you to the Apostles speech. 1. Cor. 14. where he willeth all the brethren to endeavour to prophecy: & teacheth them that they may prophesy one by one: & will you to remember that this gibe of yours falleth upon Paul, the Holy Scriptures, the Spirit of God, & Christ jesus the mediator or of the new Testament which hath established the exercise of Prophecy in the Church for all the brethren that have gifts: & there is no man that doth believe but he can speak. Finally, this want of love which you impute to us, I wonder how it is bettered among you who persecute one another so hatefully as you do: as the Prelates & their faction do devour the reformists & their faction: So as it seemeth you are blind at home, though you can see so dragonlike abroad. 3. Sin you impute to us is misaledging, & wresting the Scriptures: instances you give none, only you say that some have accused some of the principals of us: but doth it follow therefore that the accusation is true? Christ was accused for blasphemy: was he therefore a blasphemer? But if you mean that the Ministers in the conference the conference of Coventre with myself have accused me thereof: I answer it was before I knew the Separation, as you & they can tell: & what is this to the Separation: but for their charging me with wresting the Scriptures I answer that wherein I have wrested the Scripture it is of ignorance, & I do not presently remember the particulars: Let them be produced to the world, I desire no savour, if it be my sin I will confess it, but neither do I know it, neither do you prove it, only you say it, & whither you must be believed on your bare word that are so common a slanderer in this your book I refer me to the Censure of every man that is not partial, and doteth not upon you. 4. Sin you chardg us with is wilful persisting in Schism joined with contempt & scorn of others: I answer: do not you wilfully persist in your Schism from Rome, contemning & scorning of them? you will say, they are in error: & we say you are in error, & that the difference betwixt you & us is more, then betwixt you & them: For your constitution, ministry, & Government is one with theirs: but we are opposite unto you in all these. If it be no fin in you thus to deal with Rome: it is no sin in us thus to deal with you: but I deny utterly that we Schism from you: For there can be no Schism from a false Church, ministry, worship, & Government, except it be Schism to departed out of Babylon. Again we do neither contemn nor scorn any man, only we single the truth, & leave their corruptions & errors, & refuse to build our Faith upon men, or Churches, or false expositions of Scriptures: & we desire no man to come to us further than we have the truth, which whither we have or not, I refer it & must do to the conscience of every one that loveth the truth, who shall live by his own Faith, and die for his own sins. 5. Sin you cast upon us is Railing, Scoffing, and blaspheming, this you exemplify in two particulars, 1. Mr. Barrowes sharp speeches in the discovery, 2. our approbation of it in him. I answer: First: that Mr. Barrowes Scripture phrases whatsoever I do approve, & justify them fitly to be applied to your false Church, Ministry, worship, & Government: & till you have forsaken all that falsehood they do deservedly lie upon you: Secondly, The phrases which Mr. Barrow allegeth & borroweth else where, I dare not either allow them or reprove them, because I know not what particular motion of the Spirit guided him so to write: but the things signified by those phrases declaring the Idolatry of your Church, Ministry, Worship, and Government, I approve. Thirdly, that Mr. Barrow eironically upbraideth the preaching and Worship of the assemblies, following therein Elias his example, I dare not censure that as an ungodly act of his though I doubt not but you do performen these Religious exercises in the honesty of your ignorance, as I myself sometime did. Fourthly, that he specially inveigheth against the Reformists he doth it not for that they are the worst men, but for that by their doings the Lords truth is most hindered, they being like the Pharisees aptest to deceive. Finally, I will not undertake the defence of Mr. Barrowes tartness, neither dare I absolutely condemn it, seeing the Prophet Esay is as sharp against the true Church as ever was Mr. Barrow against your false Church: & whereas you allege my writing upon the Lord's prayer before I saw the Separation, as a confutation or contradiction to Mr. Barrow, I say you may aswell allege against St. Paul his Pharisaical practices, persecutions, & blasphemies before he came to the truth, as evidence to confute Christian Religion which afterward he embraced. 6. Sin you lay upon us is our opinions the matter of our Schism Brownisme as you call it: which I have already cleared to be the undoubted truth of God, & whereto I require you● answer, or else I affirm before the Lord that you are not able: & that being convinced & your mouth stopped, either you must yield to the truth, or else woe be unto you from the Lord. And so lend my answer leaving your advertisements & counsels of peace untouched as matters nothing pertaining to the cause of the Separation: they being like Apollo's Oracles apt to be expounded either way: or like Delphos sword fit to be used for any purpose: for they may fit, either Papist, Protestant, Reformist, or the Separation. An advertisement to the Reader. It may happily be thought that this treatise (by reason of the tartness of some speeches phrases, & censures, passed upon Mr. Be. the ministers, & Church of England) may pass the bounds of Christian wisdom & charity: especially considering that we of the Separation cannot be ignorant, what great offence there is taken at Mr. Barrowes bitterness in his discovery, & that we know how greatly the forward preachers & professors of the land desire to be mildly & gently handled, & to have a charitable censure paste of them in respects of their Religious dispositions to the truth: well: For Mr. Be. let him know for his part that he is fallen into a deep pit of Apostasy from his formerly seeming sincerity, & if men may be judged by that which is visible, I see no reason why the forward preachers & professors of the Lands should not esteem of him as they do of Mr. Merbury, sith Mr. Be. is now fallen to his gracious Lords as well as the other: only Mr. Ber. case is something better in this respect, that he wanteth some of Achitophel's policy, & Rabsakeh his railing, & of Tertullus Rhetotick to oppose the truth: in respect whereof there is hope that Mr. Be. sinning through infirmity, simplicity, weakness of judgement, & violence of affection may by some sharp effectual ingredients, having vomited up all his choler, & purged out all his evil humours, be reduced either to as good, or to a better constitution then wherein he formerly was & ●o this purpose is all the sharp physic administered upon him in this prescript: & so the Author doth intreath Mr. Ber. in his best love to interpret it: & to remember what Nathan said unto David: thou art that man: & what David answered Nathan: I have sinned: & what comfort Nathan presently annexed: The Lord hath put away thy sin: This condition we unfeignedly wish to Mr. Be. our old & kind friend: & for the forward preachers & professors of the Land, they must understand, that our censure must be & is only according to that which is visible in their communion: now in that respect seeing the Church, Ministry, Worship, and Government, of the English Ecclesiastical assemblies is judged & proved false, & Antichristian: how is it possible that we should speak otherwise of them as they are ministers and members of that Antichristian body then as of false ministers & false Christians what would they have us speak as the false Prophets did, Peace, Peace, where there is no peace? would they have us proclaim, The Temple of the Lord: The Temple of the Lord: to the Synagogues of Antichrist? this were to deceive them, & to daub the wall with untempered mortar: but if the forward preachers & professors of the Land do imagine that we condemn them, as persons void of grace, as excluded from salvation by Christ or the like censures: we give them to understand that the Scripture teacheth us no such thing, but rather forbiddeth such censures, for we are not to judge before the time: & therefore concerning this particular we absolutely leave them to the Lord, not doubting but he hath his thousands among them: desiring them to remember that it is one thing to apply the Scripture, to lay the salve to the sore, to denounce judgement against the sin: another to pronounce the sentence of absolution & condemnation which Christ jesus alone (into whose hands the Father hath committed all judgement) shall do, & which for any man to usurp is to intrude into Christ's throne & seat of mercy & justice. But if there be any in the assemblies, either forward preacher & professor that seethe this truth of the Separation, & yieldeth not in obedience to forsake that Antichristian way, & to walk in the truth, let him know, that seeing his heart condemneth him, God is greater than his heart: & blessed is he that condemneth not himself in that which he alloweth: & thus humbly & heartily desiring the Lord to show the light of his truth more & more upon the Land, & at the length utterly to disperse all that mist & darkness that overshadweth & obscureth the truth, I cease writing: wishing all welfare to the upright hearted Reader. FINIS. A Lettre written to Mr. A. S. By john Smyth. Aister S. being requested by Mr. H. your kind friend & mine, as also, out of M mine own inclination to do you good, whom I hear to be strongly carried out of the true way, & in respect of the ancient acquaintance which I had with you in the university of Cambridge, I thought good at this time in few lines to salute you, hoping that you will interpret this which I do in good part. I desire you would communicates this my writing with Mr. B. our old Friend, & with whomesoever else you shall see cause, that you all whom I take to be the Lords people yet in Babylon, may come forth of her, that ye be not partaker of her sins, & that ye receive not of her plagues: you wrote to Mr. H. certain reasons proving your Church a true Church, & your ministery a true ministery, this Letter Mr. H. hath lost, & so the particulars there of he cannot perfectly remember: you wrote another Letter after unto him, wherein you triumphed before the victory: I have adventred in this writing to declare unto you, both the insufficiency of such your reasons, for your Church & ministery, as Mr. H. remembreth, as also the substance of that truth which we profess; & for the which we suffer bonds, loss of goods, banishment, & death, according as the Lord alotteth to us: Mr. S. I pray you be persuaded that that which we do, we do it not rashly, nor upon discontentment, nor in pride, or upon any sinister respect: no: we call God to record to our fowls that the evidence of the truth working upon our consciences through the Lords unspeakable mercy, even contrary to our rebellious nature, hath mightily convinced & violently carried us to this truth we profess & practise: hear our grounds, & then give sentence, weigh all things indifferently, cast prejudice into neither balance, examine what I say by the word, & lean not to any man's opinion, & I dare adventure my credit that then the light of this truth wills shine in your heart, & then I pray you put it not away: so with this preface I begin to lay down the grounds of our cause which is also the Lords everlasting truth the grounds are these. 1. The covenant, the promise, Christ, is given to Abraham the Father of the faithful, & to all those that are of the faith of Abraham, & to no other: as is plain by these Scriptures. Gen. 17.7. Levit. 26.9.12. Luk. 1.72.74 Rom. 4.10 12.23.24. john. 8.39.44. Mat. 3.9. Gal. 3.7.9.16. 2: This covenant is not limited at the pleasure of men, but it is absolute, no Prince nor State can either add to it, or take aught from it, or alter the least part of it, but God giveth whole Christ, all the promises, the whole covenant on his behalf to the faithful: & the faithful on the other side promise to be God's people: wholly to deny themselves & to obey God in every one of his precepts, even the least, though it cost them their lives, Gen. 17.1 Deut. 12.32. Mat. 22.32. Rom. 8.32. 2. Cor. 1.20. Mat. 10. 37-39. 3. Two or three faithful men have this covenant, promises, Christ, given unto them immediately from heaven, & not by means of any State, Prince, Priest, Prelate whatsoever: but wheresoever two or three faithful people arise in the world, in what country or nation soever, at what time soever, there & then, the covenant, promises, & Christ is theirs, & with them, 2. Cor. 6.17.18. Mat. 18.20. & 28.20, Act. 4.12. Heb. 8.10. Apoc. 1.11. & 14.9. ●2. 1. Pet. 1. 1 Act. 2.39. Aproc. 17.13.14. 4. These faithful people wheresoever they arise in the World, must be Separated from the World, and from all uncleaneness whatsoever: For the faithful must not draw the yoke with unbelievers, righteousness can have no fellowship with unrighteousness, light can have no communion with darkness, Christ can have no concord with Behall, that is, with a Society that is without his yoke, the believer can have no part with the unbeliever, and the Temple of God can have no agreement with Idols. 2. Corinth. 6.16.18. Apoc. 14. 9-11. Deut. 22.10. & 7.2.3.6. Act. 19.9. Ephe. 5.7.11. 5. A few faithful people standing in confusion with unbelievers, unseperated from them, being one body with them, in that estatestanding are not a true church of Christ, which I prove by diverse reasons. 1. The faithful have the Spirit of Christ, the unbelievers have the Spirit of satan, how can these two contrary Spirits, these two contrary sorts of persons combyne together, 2. Cor. 6.14.15.16. 2. There is enmity put betwixt these two sorts of persons, ergo: they cannot combine together, see Gen. 3.15. 3. The covenant, promises, Christ, is the faithfuls only: how can unbelievers have any part in them. 6. Seeing the faithful being but few, have the covenant, promises, Christ, therefore they have power to all the means whereby they shall enjoy Christ as the word, seals of the covenant, the ministery, the power of binding and losing, for all these are parts of the covenant, they are the promises, they are the means of partaking Christ. Roman. 3.2. and 4.11. Act. 6.5. and 14.23. Math. 18.18.20. 1. Cor. 3.21.22. 2. Pet. 1.3.4. 1. Tim. 4.8. 7. As they have the power of all these things, so they are commanded to use all these helps, and are bound to obey the Lord in using all these means for enjoying Christ, therefore they are bound to use the word, the seals of the covenant, the ministery, the censures for their own mutual good. Deuter. 5.31.32.33. and 6.17. and 12.32. 1. Corint. 14.37. 1. Tim. 5.21. & 6.13.14. Gal. 3.15. jam. 1. 19-22.1. Cor. 11.24. 25. Act. 6.3. Heb. 13.17. Mat. 18.15.17. 8. The faithful must be Separated from the wicked and unbelievers, 2. Corinth. 6.17. They must Separate wicked men from among them by the censures, 1. Corinth. 5.13. Math. 18.15.17. 2. Thessa 3.6.14. They must choose, approve & ordain their own Elders & Deacons, Act. 6.3. & 14.23. 1. Tim, 3.10 & 6.13.14. As well as use the word and seals of the covenant. 9 If the faithful either do not Separate themselves from the wicked, or not Separate the unbelievers from them: if they still mingle with them they forfeit the covenant, they consent to all the sin of the unbelievers, to all their profanation of the Holy things: seeing God hath given them power to reform themselves, and to keep all wicked persons from among their communion by the censures of admonition and excommunication, Apoc. 18. 4 Eph. 5.7.11, 1. Cor. 5.6. Mat. 13.33. 1. Cor. 12.17.22. Levit. 17.19. Mat. 22.39. Mat. 18.15.17. 10. If Kings and States forbidden the faithful to use any of these helps and means which God hath given and commanded them to use, they are to lose their lives rather than to forbear, because they are bound to obey God rather than men, Act. 4.19. Deut. 12.32. 11. If Princes and States command the Church and faithful to entertain any other ordinances, than these before rehearsed, they are not to obey, but rather to lose their lives, 1. Tim. 6.13.14. Mat. 16.24.25. Apoc. 22.18.19. Mr. S. these are the very grounds and principles of our cause, which is the Lords truth, there are diverse other particulars which I think not fit to relate unto you: They may be after discovered unto you upon occasion: Now I come to answer your reasons for your Church and ministery: First, you say you have a true church your reason is, for that you have the word truly preached, and the Sacraments duly administered. I confess that wheresoever these things are found there is a true Church, but I deny the word to be truly Preached, and the Sacraments duly administered in any parish Church of England, which I manitest unto you after this manner. 1. First, the people pertakinge in the seals of the covenant in prayer, and in the communion of Holy things: are not a people Separated from all the unbelievers, open sinners of the Land, but stand still in conlusion with them, submitting to all the false Government of the Prelates, etc. Such a people so standing have no title to the covenant, to Christ, to the promises, see the first ground: supra. 2. Secondly, this people so mingled with the wicked of the Land, cannot be a true Church, seeing it is impossible for them to be conjoined & combined together into one body, as the true Church is. For as two disparate seeds, viz: of an horse and an ass, do not produce either an Horse or an Ass, but a mule. Genes. 36.24. So of the two contrary seeds of the Woman and of the Serpent, Genes. 3.15. can not proceed a true Church, but some thing of another nature, viz: a false Church: Wherhfore in the false Church cannot the word be truly preached, & the Sacraments duly administered. 3. Thirdly, there is one only true form of a visible Church. Ephes. 4.4. One body, which body is called Christ, 1. Corinth. 12.12. Galat. 3.16. This one body hath one Spirit, Ephes. 4.4. This one body guided by this one Spirit, hath one Lord. Ephes. 4.5. Which Lord is Christ the only Lawgiver: It hath also one faith, which is the faith expressed in the writings of the Apostles. it hath also one Baptism whereby men are admitted into this faith, submitted unto this Lord, baptised into this Spirit, incorporated into this body: and so have one God and Father: one hope of life everlasting, to whom the promises and covenant is given: Now in the assemblies of England there are diverse Faiths, one off the Puritans so miscalled, another of the Prelates, a third of the Papists that come to Church, a fourth of the ignorant persons. go, they cannot be one, & they deny themselves to be of the same body with Papists, Atheists, Prelates, witches conjurers, thiefs, murderers, blasphemers, drunckerds, usurers, etc. Therefore they are not the true body of Christ, the true Church of God, therefore all the holy things are profaned, when they are there administered, how then can they be said, as you plead to be truly administered in the assemblies of England. 4. Add hereunto that the most forward Preachers & Professors of the Land do not practise according to that which they know the Lord requireth to be practised, viz: in admitting of all to the Holy things good & bad, in neglecting the censures utterly: in fetching the Ministers calling from the prelate's whom they hold Antichristian: in submitting to their Ecclesiastical jurisdiction which is unlawful thereby yielding their consciences to other Lawgivers than Christ: For their cannons & Christ's laws are contrary: how can we say that they that thus do, sinning against their consciences, in this manner, are Separated from all sin, touch no unclean thing, & so how can they be said in that constitution the true Church, & so how can the word be said truly preached & the Sacraments duly administered in that estate? Thus Mr. S. you see your Church is proved not to be true, & your signs of a true church therefore not to be found in your assemblies. Your second point followeth, viz: that your ministery is a true ministery: I pray you how can there be a true mivisterie, where is a false Church: doth not the true ministery arise out of the true Church? can there be a true ministery & a false Church? I know not how these things can stand together. But let us hear your arguments, to prove your true ministery. First, you say there is a true ministery because men are converted thereby: I answer conversion is no sign of a true ministery: For Prophets, Priests, Apostles, Evangelists, ordinary Prophets, Pastors, private men, private women have converted, john. 4.39. Phillip. 1.14.15. 1. Cor. 14.24.31. Act. 9.1. & 11.19.21. Ergo: conversion apertaineth not only to ministers neither is it a proper effect or adjunct of a true ministery. Secondly, let your argument be framed after a true form: it willbe this: whosoever converteth souls is a true Pastor: The ministers of the church of England convert souls go, they are true Pastors. I make another argument: whosoever converteth souls is an Apostle, 1. Cor. 9.2. The ministers of England convert souls, go: they are Apostles: The like arguments may be made to prove the ministers of England, Priests, extraordinary Prophets, evangelistes, yea Christ himself, Mat. 11.5. Ierm. 23.22. Malach. 4.6. Act. 8.12. Now Mr. S. judge whither your Argument be good, to prove a true ministery, yea or nay. Thirdly I would know whither you think that the Ministers of the Romish Church are true Ministers, yea or nay: but it is manifest, Apoc. 18, 4. that God's people are in Rome how came they thither? there they are converted: how was Luther, Husse, jerom of prague the waldenses converted? how were they converted in King Henry the 8. time? answer this if you can I pray you. Fourthly, it is not the work of the Officers of the Church to convert souls, but to seed & edify them being convertedia Pastor doth not make sheep, but feedeth, guideth, & tendeth his sheep: the members of the true Church are all Saints, now Saints are converted already: and the Officers of the Church are conversant about the Saints converted, not about the profane unconverted, you know a shepherd & a flock are convertible: therefore the place Ephe. 4.12, doth not signify as it is transtated gathering or converting the Saints. But it signifieth the joining of them as you may see, Gal. 6.1. & the mending of any thing, Mat. 4.21. Lastly, how can you or any man prove to me out of the word that you convert souls by your ministery? men that are converted, are converted to the true faith, which is one, which true faith is only in the true Church, which is the body Christ, which is but one, Eph. 4.4.5.6. But your Church is not true, therefore your faith is not true, therefore you convert none to the true faith which Gods word doth declare unto us: I confess that there are thousands which I am persuaded aperteyne to the Lords election, but which they be in particular I certainly know not: I hope well of you & many more that I know. Now that your faith is not true I prove thus: They which believe not Christ to be their King, or if they know him to be their King, do not submit to his Kingdom have not the true saith, Luk. 19.27. But none of you in your assemblies believe Christ to be your King, or if ye do yield not to his Kingdom, which is his visible Church, & the ordinances thereof, seeing you mingle with all the profane in the Land, reject his Officers, submit to the Prelates unlawful authority Ecclesiastical, neglect his laws, statutes & judgements, viz: the censures of admonition & excommunication. Secondly, you say you have a true ministeri, 1. because God hath sent you, because he hath given you gifts, 2. you are allowed to exercise your gifts by some approved there unto, & 3. your gifts are approved by your people among whom you administer, this is the some of your reason, where unto I answer many things, first to your first point. 1. That God sendeth none ordinarily, but those whom the true Church sendeth, but your is not the true Church as is proved: therefore God sendeth you not, seeing you are not sent by the true Church, which you have not: again it doth not follow that because you have gifts, that therefore you are sent, for there be among the Popish Priests men that have excellent gifts, & yet you will not say they are sent: so among the common & civil lawyers, there are men that have gifts, yet you cannot say, they are sent: Lastly, if you be sent of God, how is it that contrary to the L. commandment you keep silence when the Prelate's silence you? For if God hath sent you, who can forbid you? 2. To your second point I answer thus: viz: 1. that the allowance you have, is not sufficient for the true Church must & doth & can only give sufficient allowance or power to her Officers, which you have not. 2. The Prelates which are in unlawful Ecclesiastical authority, can give no sufficient authority or allowance to true Ministers, for can good come from evil? 3. if you say you have your authority from the civil State, I answer, the civil State can not give Ecclesiastical authority, 4. if you challenge your power from some Presbytery of Ministers: I answer they must show that they have power to give you authority. 3. I say as before, that every particular visible Church, which is a communion of Saints and faithful people, hath all power Ecclesiastical with in itself, which your parishes can not have, because they are confused routs, mingle mangles of all sorts, cages to hold every unclean and hateful bird, Apoc. 18.2. contrary to Deut. 14.2.3.11.12. unequally equally yoked contrary to the Type. Deuter. 22. to. And contrary to the truth, 2. Corinth 6.14. and therefore it is impossible that you should have a true calling, from them who have no power of Christ given them to enjoy the covenant, promises, Christ, or any means to partake Christ: as is already proved unto you, & so your third point all so falleth to the ground. Briefly therefore to discover unto you the true calling which is only one, for there is only one true way for Officers to enter into Office, viz: that way which is taught by Christ, for he is the door into the sheepfold, and whosoever climbeth up any other way (Christ saith) is a these and a robber, john. 10.1.7.9, the true calling is this. 1. A company of faithful people, 2. must be Separate from all wicked men, 3. joined together into covenant to enjoy all God's ordinances. 4. assembled with fasting, and prayer, 5. must choose out from among themselves, one or more able persons, 6. must be approved according to the rules: mentioned by the Apostle, 1. Timoth. 3. and afterward, 7. charged & commanded to administer faith fully that this is so, these places witness, Roman. 1.7. 1▪ Corinth. 1.2. Ephes. 1.4. Apocal. 17.14. and 15.3. Apocal. 18.4. 2. Corinth. 6.17. Ephes. 5.7. Deuter, 29.9.13. josua. 24.25. Act. 3.25. Heb. 8.10. Act. 13.2.3. and 14.23. & 6.5.1. Tim. 3.10. Tit. 1.6.9.1. Tim. 6.3.14. Act. 20.28. 1. Pet, 5.1.3.4. Now Mr. S. show me such a Church, and such a ministery, in any parish Church in England, and I will acknowledge it a true Church, and that ministery, a true ministery: but if you cannot show it, give us leave to do as we ●oe according to that which we have showed you warrant for our of the word. And now I pray you examine these things carefully, and think it not labour lost to search and weigh seriously the Scriptures by me quoted in every point. Know that the Lord will not be served with halves, he will have all or none: I confess you have much good doctrine among you: yea you have the doctrine of Christ's priesthood pure in his Sacrifice and intercession, but you have utterly cast of his Kingdom, which as the true constitution of the visible Church in the true causes essential thereof, viz: 1. the true matter which are only Saints, 2. the true form which is the covenant to walk in all God's ways. 3. The true essential properties which is the power of our Lord jesus Christ especially in binding and losing, without which it is impossible for the Church to continue a Holy communion among themselves: all this you want, and therefore you in the assemblies deny Christ the King to reign over you, you have rejected Christ's Testament, for his Testament is that which he hath purchased with his blood: as you may see, 1. Corinth. 14.25. Heb. 10.29. For the Old Testament was abolished by the blood of his cross, and the new Testament succeeded & in established in stead thereof by his blood: for Christ by his priesthood obtained his Kingdom, & now in his Kingdom dispenseth the virtue of his Preishood to his subjects: Mr. S. I pray you consider carefully these things, I know they are the undoubted & most clear & evident truth of God's word: & that will I adventure further to prove before any witnesses, upon the hazard of my life if I may have audience: do not you now as you have once done in your Letter to Mr. H. take it granted that neither he nor his leaders, as you speak, can answer your arguments, you see it is otherwise: I pray you do not oppose against this truth in your pulpits till you have thoroughly scanned all things, & till you have had further passages with me about it: I did think that I ought to do many things against this way, but it pleased the Lord at the length to reveal his truth unto me, for the which I bless my God for ever: I know if you once interest yourself in opposition against the cause publicly, it will be very hard for you afterwards to deny your doings, & to pull down that which you have built: Therefore be advised: raise up your heart to enter into the cause, & be not afraid of it, deny all, even wife & children, & life also: else you are not capable of this truth. I pray you commend me to Mr. B. and to yourself most kindly: The Lord of his mercy vouchsafe to enlighten you with the evident brightness of his truth: and the Lord open your heart to entertain it in love: and the Lord guide your feet into the way of peace: so in all kindness I take leave of you bidding you most heartily farewell, FINIS A Letter written to certain brethren in S. By john Smyth. Mercy and peace be multiplied unto you. Rethten: I am exceedingly rejoiced in my soul hearing of the grace of God bestowed B upon you: & althongh you are but few in number, yet considering that the Kingdom of heaven is as a grain of mustard seed small in the beginning: I do not doubt but you may in time grow up to a multitude, and be as it were a great t●ee full of Fruitful branches which I unfeignedly desire, brethren, in your behalf at the Lords hands. I have received your letter long since, & I had sent you answer ere this if I had had a convenient messenger, but now having fit opportunity offered I do willingly & of duty to you my brethren, to the L. jesus, & his truth, make answer to your motion: & whereas Mr. K. is a man famous in the Churches of England for learning & sincerity being now grown aged in them both, it might therefore be thought boldness in me to deal with him, yet being provoked thereunto by you & by himself, & by my place which I sustain in the Church of Christ, I durst not refuse, but choose rather to incur the undeserved suspicion of arrogancy (if any man dare so deem it) by manifesting the truth, than the deserved reproach of the denial of the truth, which is committed when the truth is not defended upon due calling thereunto: First therefore I do profess before all men that the truth we profess is manifested already sufficiently (to all that will but open there eyes) in the writings of those worthy witnesses of jesus Christ, who have gone before us in the Testimony of this truth we hold out to the world: & therefore I shall by this my writing, only do that which is already done: & therefore this my labour might w●l have been spared: Secondly, nevertheless because things may be further explained & manifested by several gifts: I thought it not amiss to show mine opinion also: The rather being called thereunto, by yourselves as also by Mr. K. briefly therefore to come to the matter the two points to be proved are these. First, that such matters as a●e excepted against in the Church of England are contrary to the word of God. Se●ondly: That they are in such sort opposite thereunto as thereby it is become no Church meet for any good Christian to Remain in and to communicate with. These two points shallbe manifestly proved by these Scriptures following. 1. First, your Church is not of the Apostolic constitution, but framed according to the invention of man, which is proved thus. Deut. 14.2. compared with 1. Pet. 2.9. Roman. 1.7. 1. The Churches of the Apostolic constitution consisted of Saints only. The Churches of England consist not of Saints only. Therefore the Churches of England are not of the Apostolic constitution, & therefore are framed according to the invention of man. The major is proved by the former Scriptures, for Moses calleth the jews an Holy people ceremonially typing that the people of the new Testament should be truly holy as Peter doth expound it, and Paul exemplify it to the Romans and in all his Epistles. The minor is manifest: for all sorts of persons, Atheists, Papists, adulterers, thieves, etc. & who not? are compelled to be & are members of the English Churches. Ergo. 2. Again from that Church which is not of the Apostolic constitution, but of man's invention, all the faithful must make Separation, 2, Chron. 13. 5.-13. & 30. 5-12. compared with Revel. 14.9.10. & 18.4.5. The Churches of England are not of the Apostolic constitution, but of man's invention. Therefore the faithful must make Separation from the Churches of England. The major is proved thus as Ezechiah persuadeth the Israelites to Separate from the Church of jeroboams invention to join to the true Church of judah which was of Moses constitution, so john by vision is commanded to pronounce a woe to them that give homage to antichrist's ordinances, and to persuade all the faithful to Separate from Babylon, which is by interpretation a confusion: Now all men's inventions are Antichristian, seeing that as Christ & Antichrist are opposite, so are Christian & Antichristians. if there for the constitution of the Churches of England be not of Christ's, that is of the Apostolic primitive frame, it is of man, of Antichrist, & so woe be to them that do not Separate from it. 2. Secondly, your ministery is not of the Apostolic primitive institution, but framed according to man's invention which is proved thus, Heb. 5.4.5. Levit. 8. compared with Esay. 66.20.21. Act. ●. 3 6. & Act. 14.23. 1. The true ministery of the Apostolic institution was by election, approbation, & ordination of that particular holy people whereto they did administer. The ministry of the assemblies of England is not so, but after the invention of man. Therefore the ministery of the assemblies is not the true minister of the Apostolic institution, but devised by man. The major is proved by the former scriptures, for as that only was the true priesthood which Moses by the commandment of the L. appointed in the old testament & therefore that of jeroboams was false, 1. King. 12.31. & 2. Chron. 13.9. So it the new Testament that is only the true ministery which is of the Apostolic institution, viz: by election, ordination, approbation, of that faithful & holy people whereto they administer. The minor is evident: For the ministery of England, viz: the Prelacy, priesthood, & Deaconry, like three unclean Spirits proceed out of the month of the beast, that is are by the Authority of the Roman Empire established: Revel 16.15. out of the mouth of the false Prophet, that is are by Authority of the Pope of Rome established: & out of the mouth of the Dragon, that is are by the Authority of Satan himself established: For there is not a minister in England Elected by that faithful people where he administereth, but is chosen by a profane mixed people, if he be chosen, & law doth not allow such election: he is approved & ordained by Antichrist himself, coming but of the mouth of the false Prophets the Prelates of the Land. 2. Again, from that ministery which is not of the Apostolic institution, but of man's invention must all the good Christians make Separation, Deut. 13.3. Math. 7.15. ●. Timoth. 3.5. Revel. 14.9.2. Corinth. 11. 13-15. River. 2.2. The ministery of England is not of the Apostolic institution, but of man's invention. Therefore all good Christians must make Separation from the ministery of England. The Major is proved thus: as in the old Testament Moses commandeth not to hearken to false Prophets, Ezechiah endevoreth to draw the people from jeroboams Priest, So in the new Testament Christ willeth to take heed of false Prophets, Paul willeth to turn away from such, & a woe is threatened by john to all that receive the beasts mark from his Ministers. Thirdly, you worship is not of the Apostolic primitive institution, but is invented by man & so is Antichristian: as may be proved thus, Act. 2.4.11.42. & 10.46. & 19.6. Rom. 8.26. 1. Cor. 12.7. & 14.15.26. 1. The true worship of the Apostolic institution proceeded merely from the Spirit having no outward help of devised forms of prayers, exhortations, psalms, & Ceremonies. The worship of the English assemblies proceedeth out of the Servicebook in devised forms of prayers, exhortations, & psalms, & other Ceremonies. Therefore the worse his of the English assemblies is not the true worship of the Apostolic institution, but is invented by man. The major is manifest by the places alleged: For upon the day of Pentecost the Apostles had the holy Ghost given them in the shape of fiery & cloven tongues, & thereupon they spoke as the holy Ghost gave them utterance, manifesting the Spirit to the hearets, & so was it with the Gentiles afterward when the holy Ghost came upon them, & since that time all the churches of the Apostolic institution worshipped afther the same manner, for all Churches worshipped after one manner, 1. Cor. 16.1. & 14.36.37. & 11.2 16. where note that if devised forms of prayers, psalms, exhortations, were God's ordinances, the Apostles would have delivered them to the Churches, & they should have received upon the day of Pentecost fiery books as well as fiery tongues. The minor is evident & needeth no proof. Ergo. 2. Again▪ From that worship which is invented by man, & not of the Apostolic institution mustal the good Christians Separate, Col. 2. 20-23. Mat. 15.9. Levit. 10.1.2. compared with Act. 2.3. The worship of the English assemblies is invented by man, & not of the Apostolic institution. Therefore from the worship of the English assemblies ought all good Christians to Separate. The major is proved thus: For seeing the worship of the assemblies is will▪ worship, vaine-worship, devised by man, not kindled with the true living fire which came down from heaven upon the primitive Church, but with such a strange fire as Nadab and Abihu offered withal, therefore it is idolatry & so to be Separated from. 4. Fourthly, the Government of the assemblies is Antichristian by the confession of themselves, & therein can no good Christian join, except it be lawful for a good Christian which is or aught to be a subject of Christ's Kingdom which is visible Church, to submit to the utter enemy of Chr. & to his authority, which what is it else but to be a traitor against the L. jesus? yet for further proof I reason thus from these places, Act. 14.23. & 20.28. Phillip. 1.1. 1. Pet. 5. 1.-4. 1. The Government of the primitive Apostolic institution was by a College of pastors, or presbytery. The Government of the English assemblies is by an Antichristian prelate & his Officers. Therefore the Government of the English assemblies is not the primitive Apostolic Government. The major is evident thus: For the Apostles instituted Elders by the election of the Saints to oversee the Church & feed the Flock of one particular visible Church only, as is manifest among the Ephe●ians, Philippians, Hebrues, & all Churches. The minor is evident: For the Prelates & their officers are not those Christian Bishops of the Apostolic institution, elected by & placed over one particular Church of the Saint, but are a devised tyrannical Lordship ●uling hundreds of parishes by their own devised Canons. Ergo. 2. Again: From the Government which is devised by man in the Church, & so is Antichristian, & which is not of the Apostolic institution must all good Christians Separate. Luk. 19.27. 1. Cor. 7.23. Revel. 14.9. The Government of the English assemblies is not of the Apostolic institution, but is devised by man & Antichristian. Therefore, from the Government of the English assemblies must all good Christians Separate. The major is manifest by the places alleged, for seeing Christ jesus only must reign in the hearts of the faithful by his own● officers & laws: therefore good Christians must only submit to his officers, & if they submit to any new officers devised by man, Christ saith he will have them slain, they are the Servants of men, & obeying the Antichristian beast have a woe threatened against them. Thus brethren have I written unto you according to your request, & Mr. K. his direction proofs of those two points which you expect & that in 4. main transgressions in the English assemblies, viz: in the constitution, ministery, worship, & Government of them: I pray you brethren keep the copy I send you safe, & let Mr. K. have a transcript of it, & if it please him to answer, I will be ready to explain matters more fully if there be any ambiguity, & to confirm matters doubtful & that especially for your establishment in the truth: which now blessed be the Lord is so evident that all the men upon earth with their learning can never be able to obscure it: Brethren I beseech you grow in grace & in the knowledge of our Lord jesus Christ, to whom be praise in his Church throughout all generations, Amen. Your Brother in the Faith john Smyth. The Printer to the Reader. Though in this treatise there be diverse Lets, either wanting, or superfluous, or displaced, or changed, by reason whereof some words are corrupted: yet because English men can easily help that fault, I thought it needless to put them in these Errata: Only these four great oversights I desire may be corrected, pag. 41. Lin. 1. for: Church by the Presbytery, read, Church to the Presbytery. pag, 75. Lin. 44. after the last words, read. So in the New Testament. pag. 128. Lin. 32. For Religion is &c. read, Religion is. heresy: if this argument be false than is yours false. pag. 128. Lin. 34. For: is so, read, become. The lesser faults I desire the Reader to pardon.