THE Second part of the Anatomy of Abuses, containing The display of Corruptions, with a perfect description of such imperfections, blemishes and abuses, as now reigning in every degree, require reformation for fear of God's vengeance to be powered upon the people and country, without speedy repentance and conversion unto God: made dialogwise by Philip Stubbes.  Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. 
LONDON. Printed by R. W. for William Wright, and are to be sold at his shop joining to S. Mildred's Church in the Poultry, being the middle shop in the row.   

  

To the christian Reader, grace, mercy and peace.  
THere was never any age, or time (christian reader) since the beginning of the world how corrupt so ever, that was comparable to this our thrice unhappy age in all kind of corruption, wickedness, and sin, with grief of conscience I speak it, with weeping eyes I behold it, and with sorrowful heart I lament it. And therefore seeing wickedness doth so abound, the Lord (lest his children frozen in the dregs of their sin should perish with the wicked) raiseth up in his mercy good men (as we see he hath done our good brother the author hereof) to pluck off the visors of sin from their faces, and to lay them open to the view of the whole world, to the end that every one seeing the dung of his wicked ways, and the filthy dregs of sin thrown in their faces, may blush at the same, be ashamed, repent, amend, and turn to the Lord jesus, and so eternally be saved To this end and purpose hath the author hereof (for whose singular towardness in his primar years the Lord jesus be praised) taken in hand the compiling of this little treatise, containing a summary of certain corruptions and abuses, as well in the temporalty, as in the clergy. Wherefore good Reader read over the same mature, advisedly, judge of the same imparcially, and at no hand condemn not temere, rashly, but compare every thing with the truth of God's word, and the state of time, and as it shall agree or disagree from the word of God. so to like or dislike of the same. For I am persuaded that there is nothing comprised in this whole book, but what is agreeable to the word of God, saving that in a few points the author bearing with the infirmity of the time, hath somewhat qualified both his style and matter, in hope of speedy reformation to ensue, which God grant. Therefore gentle Reader, let me obtain thus much at thy hands, as to accept his good meaning, as well towards the truth, as towards the professors thereof, to rest thankful to God for him, and to help him with thy prayers, that as hitherto even from his youth he hath borne a zeal to the truth of Christ's religion, so he may continue to the end, expressing (as he hath begun) in life and conversation for ever through Christ jesus our only Lord and Saviour. Amen.  
Thy fellow labourer. I. F.   

¶ To the Right HONOURABLE, and his singular good Lord Philip Earl of Arundel, Philip Stubs wisheth all prosperity in this life, with increase of honour, and eternal felicity in the heavenly hierarchy by jesus Christ.  
Having made the first part of the Anatomy of abuses (Right honourable, and my very good Lord) and dedicated the same to your good Lordship, I thought I should then have taken mine Vltimum vale, for ever-needing to write any more of this argument again. But seeing the devil our ancient adversary in the fullness of his malice hath since spewed out his poison▪ and powered out his filthy dregs of infinite corruptions, blemishes, and abuses (all which to comprehend in number were Infinitum finito comprehendere) amongst us of late days more than ever were heard of before. I was compelled for the health of their souls, and benefit of my country, to take in hand afresh this new tractation, entitled The display of Corruptions, wherein are laid open divers and sundry abuses, corruptions, and blemishes crept as well into one sort of men as into another. And having finished the same, and committed it to the press, I stood in suspense, doubting to whom I might dedicate the same, as well for the argument, and matter which it handleth (being a ●otch, which some frozen in the dregs of their sin cannot in any wise abide to be touched) as also for the inability and indignity of the author But at the last considering with myself the proximity, the semblance, and nearness of the arguments, as well of my first book of the Anatomy of abuses as also of this the Display of Corruptions, I could do no less than to dedicate the same to your excellent Lordship, to the end, that your Honour (whom the Lord hath made the mirror of true nobility) might see, as it were in a glass) a brief summary of the corruptions and abuses that reign in these days. And not only for this cause was I incited to commit the defence of this little treatise to your Honourable Lordship, but also and in especial, in demonstration of my thankful heart, and unfeigned goodwill towards your Honour▪ in that it pleased the same (far beyond either my desert or expectation) not only to accept, and take in good part my former simple book of the Anatomy of Abuses, but also most honourably to shield the same under the wings and guardance of your Lordship's protection. In recompense whereof, if mine ability were answerable to my faithful heart, and goodwill borne to your Honour, than should this present gift be as great, as now by reason of the contrary it is small and contemptible. And although I may be adjudged of some to be over presumptuous in dedicating this book unto your Honour, yet if they will consider, that such treatises as this (and especially in these corrupt days, wherein no man can abide to hear of his faults) are not to be dedicated to every one without exception, but to such whom GOD hath blessed (as his glorious name be praised therefore he hath done your Honour) with all graces and gifts. either spiritual, or corporal whatsoever. And therefore have I had a special regard, that as this my book doth discover and lay open to the view of the world, many and sundry corruptions, abuses, and blemishes in every degree, so I might dedicate the same to one free from all the same blemishes and corruptions, lest otherwise it might happily be a prick to his eyes▪ and an offence to his mind. For this (right Honourable and my very good Lord) I hold for a Maxim, that he who is licentiously and dissolutely inclined, can hardly in any sauce brook or digest good books, which reprove such things as he so greedily thirsteth after. This maketh many a one of a guilty conscience (when he cannot abide to hear his faults ripped up, because he is faulty) to cast away good books, and to contemn both them and the authors, who with great study labour and pains have finished the same for the glory of GOD▪ and benefit of their country. But had every one tasted of the favourable acceptation of their patrons, to whose tuition they commend their labours, as well as I have of your good Lordships not only acceptation, but also most bountiful remuneration, they should not need to fear any refusal of their faithful good wills in exhibiting good works unto their protection and defence. Which thing though I can never sufficiently in effect regraciate, yet in affect I will not fail (Christ willing) to the end of my life faithfully to supply. And truly not without great cause am I bound so to do, and not only I, but even all that in any respect have to deal with your honourable Lordship. For what is the common bruit noised of your Honour? Truly this. That your Lordship for gentleness and affability (whereof I have tasted to my singular comfort) is surpassing any, in good conscience, mercy, and compassion inferior to none, in noble prowess, valiancy, & magnanimity comparable with the best. In wisdom and understanding singular, in zeal to the truth and christian religion famous, in defending of equity and justice renowned. Finally, in all kind of virtue equal with any, so as I will not fear to call your good Lordship a perfect pattern of true nobility in all respects. Thus having rather as the peinter doth, to draw the lineaments of your Lordship's virtues with my rude pencil, than to display the lively proport on of the whole body thereof, which is unpossible, I will surcease the same For if I should take upon me to decipher forth the whole body of your Lordship's deserved commendations, I should rather not know where to end, than where to begin. But lest I might seem to aggravate your sacred ears, occupied with graver and sager matters than these, I will draw to an end, most humbly beseeching your good Lordship to receive this little treatise into your honours patronage▪ with like plausible alacritte as your Honour received my former dedication. And not only to receive the same into your Lordship's protection, but also to remain the just defender thereof against the filthy crew of flouting Momus, and railing Zoilus, with their complices of bragging Thrasos, and wrangling phormion's, to whom as the Greek proverb saith: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, It is easier to carp, & to find fault with, than to imitate, or amend. And thus craving pardon at your good Lordship's hand, for this my bold attempt, I most humbly take my leave, committing your Honour with my good Lady your wife, and all the rest of your honourable progeny, and alliance to the tuition and protection of the blessed God, who keep and preserve the same, in his faith, fear, and love all the days of your life, with increase of much honour, and eternal beatitude in the heavens by jesus Christ.  
Your honours most humble, and Obedient to command, Philip Stubbes.   

The Author to the gentle Reader.  
I Am constrained (gentle reader) before I go any further to make this request unto thee. That wheresoever thou shalt chance in the reading of this little treatise, to find any faults or escapes either in the print, or in the matter (as there be too many) thou wilt either friendly bear with them, or else courteously amend them with thy pen. And if it be so, that any position or assumption in any part of my book do seem strange unto thee (as many things may do peradventure at the first blush, especially being uttered in these dainty days) that thou wilt of thy friendly courtesy, and zeal which thou bearest to the truth, to the glory of God, to good letters, and to the edification of the church of GOD, either expunge them with thy pen, qualify them with the oil of thy favourable judgement, or else at the least so to construe & interpret them as they both may stand with the truth, with the time, and with the mind, good meaning, and intent of the author, whose mind was (I call heaven and earth to witness) to profit all, and to offend none. And therefore if any be offended at any thing in this book, it is Scandalum acceptum, non datum, Offence taken, not given. For the avoiding whereof (God is my judge, who knoweth the secrets of all hearts) I have abstained from some things which I ought to have spoken of, and othersome which I have spoken of, I have so qualified, that I may seem rather to bear with the corruption of the time, than the truth of the cause, and rather to love any thing better than schisms & dissensions in the church of GOD, about matters of small importance. Therefore (good Reader) in christian charity I beseech thee to respect my simple meaning, which was to set forth the glory of Christ jesus, and the truth of his word, to the edifying of his militant church upon the earth, and withal to consider the mark that I shoot at (namely, to insinuate the truth, and to weed out all corruptions, etc.) the end, and purpose of my drift, and to defend this little book against flouting Momus, bragging Thrasos, and wrangling phormion's, Quibus omnia bona odio habentur, to whom all good things are had in contempt. Thus I commit thee to God (most Christian reader) and to the power of his might, who bless thee with all graces spiritual and corporal in this life, that long mayst thou read, and much mayst thou profit, and in the end grant thee eternal life in the heavens, thy inheritance purchased with the body of Christ jesus, to whom be praise, glory, honour, and dominion in all congregations for ever. Amen.  
Thine too is power in the Lord to command, Philip Stubbes.   

I. S, in commendation of the Author, and his book.  

THe state of these unhappy days,  
alas lament we may:  
Sith that the same so fraughted are,  
with wickedness each way.   

O England dear, my native soil,  
I sorry am for thee:  
For that thou wilt not leave thy sin,  
and eke repentant be.   

But day by day, from nought to worse,  
thou daily dost proceed:  
Both temporalty and clergy they,  
to work sin have decreed.   

Hast thou forgot there is a God,  
that wickedness doth hate:  
And who will one day punish it,  
in each degree and state?   

And dost thou not remember well,  
the dangers manifold:  
Wherein of late thou stoodst (alas)  
more than can well be told?   

And hast tbou also clean forgot,  
and out of mind let fall:  
How that the goodness of thy God,  
delivered thee from all.   

Praise him therefore with heart and voice,  
show not thyself unkind,  
And let not these his mercies great,  
fall out of grateful mind.   

His judgements great are towards thee,  
his mercies are much more:  
And all to allure thee from thy sin,  
his name be praised therefore.   

Let either th'one, or tother then,  
move thee to leave thy sin:  
Then God to power his blessings store,  
upon thee shall not linne.   

Read over then this little book,  
and that with single eye:  
And thou the state of this our age,  
as in a glass shalt see.   

Be warned therefore, thy life amend,  
while thou hast time and space:  
That in the end in heaven bliss,  
thou mayst have thy solace.   
Thine in the Lord. I.S.   

THE DISPLAY OF corruptions, requiring reformation for fear of God's judgements to be powered upon the people and country without speedy amendment.  The speakers THEODORUS and AMPHILOGUS. 
GOD bless you my friend, and well overtaken.  Amphilogus. 
You are heartily welcome good sir with all my heart.  Theod. 
How far purpose you to travel this way by the grace of God?  Amphil. 
As far as Nodnol if God permit.  Theod. 
What place is that I pray you, and where is it situate?  Amphil. 
It is a famous city; and the chiefest place in Dnalgne, have you not heard of it?  Theod. 
No truly. For I am a stranger, and newly come into these countries, only to see fashions, and to learn the state and condition of those things whereof I am ignorant.  Amphil. 
What country man are you, I pray you, if I may be so bold as to ask?  Theod. 
I am of the country and nation of the Idumeans, a cruel, fierce, and servile kind of people.  Amphil. 
I have been in those countries myself ere now, and therefore it is marvel that you know me not.  Theod. 
Me think I should know you, but yet I cannot call your name to remembrance.  Amphil. 
My name is Amphilogus sometime of your acquaintance, though now you have (through tract of time, which is Omnium rerum edax, A devourer of all things) forgot the same. But notwithstanding that you have forgot me, yet I remember you very well: is not your name Master Theodorus?  Theod. 
Yes truly my name is Theodorus, I neither can, nor yet will ever deny the same.  Amphil. 
What make you in these countries, if I may ask you without offence?  Theod. 
Truly I came hither to see the country, people, and nation, to learn the tongue, and to see (as I told you) the state generally of all things.  Amphil. 
You are most heartily welcome, and I having been a traveler, borne in these countries, and knowing the state thereof in every respect, to congratulate your coming, will impart unto you the substance and effect thereof in as few words as I can.  Theod. 
I pray you then give me leave (under correction) to ask you such necessary questions, as are incident to my purpose, and which may serve for my better instruction in all the foresaid premises?  Amphil. 
Go to then, ask on in the name of God, and I will address myself to satisfy your reasonable requests in any thing I can.  Theod. 
What be the inhabiters of this country? Be they a virtuous, godly, and religious kind of people, or other wise clean contrary?  Amphil. 
Surely they are as all other countries and nations be for the most part, inclined to sin, and wickedness, drinking up iniquity as it were water, but yet I am persuaded that albeit all flesh hath corrupted his way before the face of GOD, yet is there not any nation or country under the sun that for pride, whoredom, drunkenness, gluttony and all kind of oppression, injury, and mischief, may compare with this one country of Dnalgne, God be merciful unto it, and hasten his kingdom that all wickedness may be done away.  Theod. 
Then as in all other countries, where ever I have traveled, so in this also, is verified the old adage, namely, that the first age of the world was called Aurea aetas, the golden age, for that men lived godly, & in the fear of God, the second age was called Argentea aetas, the silver age, for that men began somewhat to decline, and fall from their former holiness, and integrity of life, to sin and wickedness: the third and last age, which is this that we are fallen into, is and may justly be called Ferrea or Plumbea aetas, the iron or leaden age, in as much as now men are fallen from all godliness whatsoever, and are as it were wedded to iniquity, committing sin without any remorse, and running into all kind of abomination and impiety, without restraint. All which things duly in the good heart of a faithful christian considered, & weighed, may easily persuade a wise man to think their destruction to be at hand, except they repent.  Amphil. 
You say very well. Therefore I would wish them to take heed to themselves, and to leave their wickedness before the Lords wrath be gone out against them, for let them be sure, that when the measure of their wickedness is full, then will the Lord cut them off from the face of the earth if they repent not, and truly turn to the Lord. The wise man saith, that a little before destruction come, the heart of man shall swell into pride, and wickedness. Our saviour Christ saith, when men flatter themselves, and say peace, peace, all things are well, we need not to fear any thing, then even then shall sudden destruction fall upon them, as sorrow cometh upon a woman traveling with child, and they shall not escape, because they would not know the Lord, nor the day of his visitation. Which thing we see to be true through all the histories of the sacred Bible, for when the Sodomites, and Gomorreans had filled up the measures of their iniquity, and faciate themselves in sin, than came there fire and brimstone raining from heaven upon them, and their city, and consumed them all, from the upper face of the earth. When all the world in the days of Noah, was given over to sin, and wickedness, immediately came the flood of God's vengeance, and destroyed them all, eight persons to wit, Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives, who served the Lord in true simplicity of heart, only excepted. The Hierosolimitanes when their sin was ripe, were they not confounded, and put to the edge of the sword? When Pharaoh the king of Egypt his sin was ripe, did not the Lord harden his heart to pursue the Israelits, and so drowned him, and all his retinue in the read sea? Herod and Nabuchadnezer swelling in sin, and rising up against the majesty of God in the malice of their hearts, was not the one strooken dead in a moment, and eaten up with worms, the other deposed from his kingdom, and constrained to eat grass with the beasts of the earth, with the like examples, which for the avoiding of prolixity, I omit. By all which it appeareth, that when destruction is nearest, then are the people the securest, and the most indurate and frozen in the dregs of their sin, and being so, the sequel is either confusion in this life, or perdition in the world to come, or both. And therefore I beseech the Lord that both this country, and all others may repent, & amend every one their wicked ways, to the glory of God and their own salvation.  Theod. 
Is this country fruitful, and plenty of all things or barren, and empty?  Amphil. 
There is no nation or country in the world, that for store, and abundance of all things, may compare with the same, for of all things there is such plenty (God have the praise thereof) as they may seem to have need of no other nation, but all others of them. In so much as if they were wise people (as they be wise enough, if they would use their wisdom well) to keep their own substance within themselves, and not to transport it over to other countries (as many covetous wretches for their own private gain do) they might live richly and in abundance of all things, whilst other countries should languish and want. But hereof more shall be spoken hereafter.  Theod. 
I pray you how is this country adjacent, upon other countries?  Amphil. 
It lieth environed with the ocean sea round about, upon the one side eastward, it bordereth upon the confines of France: upon the other side westward, upon Ireland, towards the septentrional or north part upon Scotland, and upon the south side, it respecteth Germany. And is inhabited with three sundry sorts of people, Englishmen, Cornishmen, and welshmen, all which if not in laws, and constitutions, yet in language do differ one from another. But as they do differ in tongue, and speech, so are they subject (and that Patrio iure, By justice, & law) to one Prince, and governor only to whom they own their allegiance.  Theod. 
Is the country quiet, peaceable, and at unity within itself, or otherwise troubled with mutinies, wars, and civil dissensions?  Amphil. 
The whole land (God be praised therefore, and preserve her noble Grace by whom it is governed, and maintained) is, and hath been at peace, and unity not only within itself, but also abroad for this four or five and twenty years. During all which time there hath been neither wars, invasions, insurrectione, nor any effusion of blood to speak of, except of a fort of archtraitours, who have received but the same reward they deserved, and the same that I pray God all traitors with their complices may receive hereafter, if they practise the same, which they have done. The like continuance of peace was never heard of not this hundred years before, as this country hath enjoyed since her majesties reign the Lord preserve her grace, and royal Majesty for ever.  Theod. 
Are the other countries, lands, and nations about them (for as I gather by your former intimations this country is situate as it were in the centrie, or midst of others) their friends, and well-willers, or their enemies?  Amphil. 
It is an old saying and true: Ex incertis, & ambiguis rebus optimum tenere sapientis est: Of things uncertain a christian man ought to judge, and hope the best. They hope well that all are their friends and well-willers: but it is thought (and I fear me too true) that they are so far from being their friends (Nisi verbo tenus, From mouth outward only) that they have vowed and sworn their destruction, if they could as easily achieve it, as they secretly intent it. Which thing to be true, some of their late practices have (yet to their own confusion, God's name be praised) proved true. For how many times hath that man of sin, that son of the devil, that Italian Antichrist of Rome interdicted, excommunicated, suspended, and accursed with book, bell, and candle, both the Prince, the Nobility, the Commons, and whole Realm? How often hath he sent forth his roaring bulls against her Majesty, excommunicating (as I have said) her Grace, and discharging her highness liege people, and natural subjects from their allegiance to her Grace? How often hath he with his adherents conspired and intended the death and overthrow of her Majesty, and Nobility by conjuration, necromancy, exorcisms, art magic, witchcraft, and all kind of devilry beside, wherein the most part of them are skilfuller, than in divinity? And when these devices would not take place, nor effect as they wished, then attempted they by other ways and means to overthrow the estate, the Prince, nobles, people, and country: sometime by secret irruption, sometime by open invasion, insurrection, and rebellion, sometime by open treason, sometime by secret conspiracy, and sometimes by one means, sometimes by another. And now of late attempted they the overthrow and subversion of her Majesty, people, country, and all, by sending into the realm a sort of cutthroats, false traitors, and blood thirsty Papists, who under the pretence of religious men (in whom for the most part there is as much religion as is in a dog) should not only lurk in corners like howlets that abhor the light, creep into noble men's bosoms, thereby to withdraw her majesties subjects from their allegiance, but also move them to rebellion, and to take sword in hand against Prince, country, yea and against God himself (if it were possible) and to dispense with them that shall thus mischievously behave themselves. And forsooth these goodly fellows, the devils agents, that must work these feats, are called (in the devils name) by the name of jesuits, seminary priests, and catholics, usurping to themselves a name never heard of till of late days, being indeed a name very blasphemously derived from the name of jesus, and improperly alluded and attributed to themselves. But what will it prevail them to be like unto jesus in name only, or how can they, nay how dare they arrogate that name unto themselves, whereas their doctrine, religion, and whole profession, together with their corrupt lives and conversations are directly contrary to the doctrine, religion, life, and profession of Christ jesus? There is nothing in the world more contradictory one to another, than all their proceedings in general are to Christ jesus, and his laws, and yet will they under the pretence of a bare and naked name, promise to themselves such excellency, such integrity, and perfection, as GOD cannot require more, yea such as doth merit Ex opere operato, Eternal felicity in the heavens. And thus they deceive themselves, and delude the world also with their trash: but of them enough.  Theod. 
Surely that country had need to take h●ed to itself, to fear, and stand in awe, having so many enemies on every side. And above all things next unto the serving of God, to keep themselves aloof, and in any case not to trust them what fair weather soever they make them: but rather to think thus, that when they flatter them the most, then intent they the most mischief against them. The sweeter the Siren singeth, the dangerouser is it to lend her our ears: the Cockatrice never meaneth so much cruelty, as when he fawneth upon thee, and weary, then take heed, for he meaneth to suck thy blood. The stiller the water standeth, the more perilous it is. Let them remember it is an old and true saying: Sub melleiacet venetium, Under honey lieth hid poison. Sub placidis herbis latitat coluber, under the pleasantest grass, lurketh the venemoust adder. Take heed of those fellows that have Mel in ore, verba lactis, sweet words, and plausible speeches: for they have Fel in cord, and Fraudem factis, Gall in their hearts, & deceit in their deeds. So falleth it out with these ambidexters, these hollow hearted friends, where they intent destruction, then will they cover it with the cloak or garment of amity & friendship, therefore are they not to be trusted.  Amphil. 
You say the truth. For I am thus persuaded, that he who is false to God (as all Papists with their complices and adherents are) can never be true and faithful, neither to prince nor country. Therefore God grant they may be taken heed of betimes.  Theod. 
Considering that this country of Dnalgne is envied abroad with so many enemies, and infested within by so many seditious Papists, and hollow hearted people, it is great marvel, that it can stand without great wars, and troubles. Belike it hath a wise politic prince, and good governors, either else it were unpossible to preserve the same in such peace and tranquillity, and that so long together. I pray you therefore by what prince is the same governed, and after what manner?  Amphil. 
The whole realm or country of Dnalgne is ruled, and governed by a noble Queen, a chaste Maid, and pure Virgin, who for all respects may compare with any under the sun. In so much as I doubt not to call her sacred breast the promptuary, the receptacle, or storehouse of all true virtue and godliness. For if you speak of wisdom, knowledge and understanding, her Grace is singular, yea, able at the first blush, to discern truth from falsehood, and falsehood from truth in any matter, how ambiguous or obscure soever: so as it may justly be called into question whether Solomon himself had greater light of wisdom instilled into his sacred breast, than her majesty hath into her highness royal mind. If you speak of learning and knowledge in the tongues, whether it be in the Latin, Greek, French, Dutch, Italian, Spanish, or any other usual tongue, it may be doubted whether Christendom hath her peer, or not. If you speak of sobriety, modesty, mansuetude, and gentleness, it is wonderful in her Highness, yea, so affable, so lowly and humble is her Grace, as she will not disdain to talk familiarly to the meanest, or poorest of her Grace's subjects upon special occasions. If you speak of mercy, and compassion to every one that hath offended, I stand in suspense whether her like were ever borne. If you speak of religion, of zeal and fervency to the truth, or if you speak of the upright execution or administration of justice, all the world can bear witness, that herein (as in all godliness else) her Highness is inferior to none that liveth at this day. So that her Grace seemeth rather a divine creature, than an earthly creature, a vessel of grace, mercy, and compassion, whereinto the Lord hath powered even the full measures of his superabundant grace, and heavenly influence. The Lord increase the same in her highness royal breast, and preserve her Grace, to the end of the world, to the glory of God, the comfort of her majesties subjects, and confusion of all her enemies whatsoever.  Theod. 
What is her majesties Council? It should seem that they must needs be excellent men, having such a virtuous Lady and Phoenix Queen to rule over them?  Amphil. 
The Council are Honourable and noble personages indeed, of great gravity, wisdom, and policy, of singular experience, modesty and discretion, for zeal to religion famous, for dexterity in giving counsel renowned, for the administration of justice, incomparable, finally, for all honourable and noble exploits inferior to none, or rather excelling all. So as their worthy deeds through the golden trump of fame are blown over all the world. The whole regiment of the Realm consisteth in the execution of good laws, sanctions, statutes, and constitutions enacted and set forth by her royal Majesty, and her most honourable Council, and committed by the same to inferior officers, and magistrates to be put in practice, by whose diligent execution thereof, justice is maintained, virtue erected, injury repressed, and sin severely punished, to the great glory of God, and common tranquillity of the Realm in every condition.  Theod. 
Is the land divided into shires, counties, precincts, and several exempt liberties, to the end justice may the better be maintained? And hath every county, shire, and precinct, good laws in the same for the deciding, and appeasing of controversies that happen in the same, so that they need not to seek further for redress than in their own shire?  Amphil. 
The whole land indeed is divided (as you say, into shires, connties, and several precincts, (which are in number as I take it 40. In every which shire or county be courts, law days, and lée●s▪ as they call them, every month, or every quarter of a year, wherein any controversy (lightly) may be heard and determined, so that none needs (except upon some special occasions) to seek to other courts for deciding of any controversy. But as there be good laws if they were executed duly, so are there corruptions, and abuses, not a few crept into them. For sometimes you shall have a matter hang in suit after it is commenced a quarter of a year, half a year, yea, a twelve month, two or three years together, yea, seven or eight years now and then, if either friends or money can be made. This deferring of justice is as damnable before God, as the sentence of false judgement is, as that blessed martyr of God Master Latimer hath said in a sermon made before King Edward the sixth. Besides this deferring and delaying of poor men's causes, I will not say how judgement is perverted in the end. I read them take heed to it that be the authors thereof. Therefore the reformed churches beyond the seas are worthy of commendations, for there the judges sit in the open gates, streets, and high ways, that every man that will may speak unto them, and complain if he have occasion. And so far from delaying, or putting of poor men's causes be they, as they will not suffer any matter how weighty soever to hang in suit above one day, or two, or at the most three days, which happeneth very seldom. But if the laws within every particular county or shire were duly administered without partiality, and truly executed with all expedition, as they ought, and not so lingered as they be, than needed not the poor people to run 100.200, yea 300. or 400. miles (as commonly they do) to seek justice▪ when they might have it nearer home: through the want whereof, beside that their suits are like to hang in balance peradventure seven years, they having spent all in the end fall to extreme beggary, which inconvenience might easily be removed, if all matters, and causes whatsoever were heard at home in their own shire, or county with expedition. And to say the truth, what fools are they (yea worthy to be inaugurated fools with the laurel crown of triple folly) that whilst they might have justice at home in their own country, and all matters of controversy decided amongst their neighbours and friends at home, will yet go to law two or three hundred miles distant from them, and spend all that they have to enrich a sort of greedy lawyers, when at the last a sort of ignorant men of their neighbours must make an end of it whether they will or not. This me think, if every good man would perpend in himself, he would neither go to law himself, nor yet give occasion to others to do the like.  Theod. 
I gather by your speeches that these people are very contentious and quarrelous, either else they would never be so desirous of revenge, nor yet prosecute the law so severely for every trifle.  Amphil. 
They are very contentious indeed. Insomuch as if one give never so small occasion to another, suit must strait be commenced, and to law go they as round as a ball, till either both, or at least the one become a beggar all days of his life after.  Theod. 
But on the other side, if they should not go to law, then should they sustain great wrong, and be injuried on every side.  Amphil. 
Indeed the law was made for the administration of equity and justice, for the appeasing of controversies & debates, and for to give to every man (Quod suum est) That which is his own, but being now perverted & abused to clean contrary ends (for now commonly the law is ended as a man is frinded) is it not better to suffer a little wrong with patience, referring the revenge to him who saith: Mihi vindictam, & ego retribuam, Vengeance is mine, and I will reward, than for a trifle to go to law, and spend all that ever he hath, and yet come by no remedy neither? Our saviour Christ biddeth us if any man will go to law with us for our cote, to give him our cloak also, and if any man will give thee a blow on the one cheek, turn to him the other, whereby is meant, that if any man will injury us, and do us wrong, we should not resist, nor trouble ourselves, but suffer awhile, and with patience refer the due revenge thereof to the Lord.  Amphil. 
Why? Is it not lawful then for one Christian man, to go to law with another?  Amphil. 
The Apostle saith many things are lawful which are not expedient, and therefore although it be after a sort lawful, yet for evely trifle it is not lawful, but for matters of importance it is. And yet not neither, if the matter might otherwise by neighbours at home be determined.  Theod. 
Yet some doubt whether it be lawful or no for one Christian man to go to law with another for any worldly matter, bringing in the apostle Paul rebuking the Corinthians for going to law one with another.  Amphil. 
The apostle in that place reprehendeth them not for going to law for reasonable causes, but for that they being christians went to law under heathen judges, which tended to the great discredit, and infamy of the Gospel. But certain it is though some Anabaptists Quibus veritas odio est, and certain other heretics have taught the contrary, yet it is certain, that one christian man may go to law with another for causes reasonable. For it being true as it cannot be denied, that there is a certain singularity, interest, and propriety in every thing, and the law being not only the mean to conserve the same propriety, but also to restore it again being violate is therefore lawful, and may lawfully be attempted out, yet with this proviso, that it is better, if the matter may otherwise be appeased at home, not to attempt law, than to attempt it. But if any schismatics (as alas the world is too full of them) should altogether deny the use of the law, as not christian, beside that the manifest word of God in every place would easily convince them, the examples, and practices of all ages, times, countries and nations, from the first beginning of the world, together with the example of our saviour Christ himself, who submitted himself to the laws then established, would quickly overthrow their vain imaginations. The law in itself, is the square, the level, and rule of equity, and justice, and therefore who absolutely contendeth the same not to be christian, may well be accused of extreme folly▪ But if the laws be wicked and antichristian, then ought not good christians to sue unto them, but rather to sustain all kind of wrong whatsoever.  Theod. 
Then it seemeth by your reason, that if the law be so necessary, as without the which Christian kingdoms could not stand, then are lawyers necessary also for the execution thereof.  Amphil. 
They are most necessary. And in my judgement a man can serve God, in no calling better, than in it, if he be a man of a good conscience, but in Dnalgne the lawyers have such chaverell consciences, that they can serve the devil better in no kind of calling than in that: for they handle poor men's matters coldly, they execute justice partially, & they receive bribes greedily, so that justice is perverted, the poor beggared, and many a good man injuried thereby. They respect the persons, and not the causes, money, not the poor, rewards, and not conscience. So that law is turned almost topsy-turvy, and therefore happy is he, that hath least to do with them.  Theod. 
The lawyers must needs be very rich if they have such large consciences.  Amphil. 
Rich quoth you? They are rich indeed toward the devil, and the world, but towards God and heaven, they are poor enough. It is no marvel if they be rich and get much when they will not speak two words under an angel (for that is called a counsellors fee.) But how they handle the poor men's causes for it, God and their own consciences can tell, and one day I fear me, they shall feel to their perpetual pain, except they repent and amend.  Theod. 
How be judgements executed there upon offenders, transgressors, and male factors, with equity, & expedition, or otherwise.  Amphil. 
It grieveth me to relate thereof unto you, the abuses therein are so inormous. For if a felon, homicide, a murderer, or else what grievous offender soever, that hath deserved a thousand deaths, if it were possible, happen to be taken and apprehended, he is straightway committed to prison, and clapped up in as many cold irons as he can bear, yea, thrown into dungeons, and dark places under the ground, without either bed, clothes, or any thing else to help himself withal, save a little straw or litter bad enough for a dog to lie in. And in this misery shall he lie amongst frogs, toads, and other filthy vermin, till lice eat the flesh of his bones. In the mean space having nothing to eat, but either bread and water, or else some other modicum scarce able to suffice nature, and many times it happeneth, that for want of the same pittance they are macerate and shrunk so low, as they either look like ghosts, or else are famished out of hand. And this extreme misery they lie in sometime (perhaps) a quarter of a year, sometimes half a year, a twelvemonth, yea, sometimes two or three years, and perchance all their life though they have deserved death, by their flagitious facts committed. Who seeth not that it were much better for them to die at once, than to suffer this extreme misery? Yea the sufferance of this extremity is better unto them, than the taste of present death itself. And therefore in the cities reform beyond seas, there is notable order for this: for as soon any felon or malefactor whatsoever, that hath deserved death is taken, he is brought before the magistrate, witness comes in, and gives evidence against him, and being found guilty, and convict by justice, is presently without any further imprisonment, reprivation or delay, condemned, and being condemned, is led presently to the place of execution, and so committed to the sword.  Theod. 
What is the cause why they are kept so long before they go to execution in Dnalgne.  Amphil. 
Sometimes it cometh to pass by reason of (will do all) otherwise called money, and sometimes by friends, or both, for certain it is, the one will not work without the other. Hereby it cometh to pass, that great abuses are committed. For if any man that hath friends and money (as money always bringeth friends with him) chance to have commmitted never so heinous, or flagitious a deed, whether rob, stolen, slain, killed, or murdered, or whatsoever it be, than letters walk, friends bestir them, and money carrieth all away: yea, and though the law condemn him, justice convicteth him, and good conscience executeth him, yet must he needs be reprieved, and in the mean time his pardon by false suggestion forsooth must be purchased, either for friendship or money.  Theod. 
That is a great abuse, that he whom the law of God and of man doth condemn, should be pardoned. Can man pardon or remit him, whom God doth condemn? Or shall man be more merciful in evil, than the author of mercy himself, it is God that condemneth, who is he that can save? Therefore those that aught to die by the law of God, are not to be saved by the law of man. The law of God commandeth that the murderer, the adulterer, the exorcist, magician, and witch, and the like, should die the death. Is it now in the power or strength of man to pardon him his life?  Amphil. 
Although it be wilful and purpo●sed murder, yet is the prince borne in hand that it was plain chance medley (as they call it) mere casual, and fortunate, and therefore may easily be dispensed withal. Indeed the wisdom of God ordained, that if any man chanced to kill an other against his will, he should fly to certain cities of refuge, and so be saved, but if it were proved that he killed him wittingly, willingly, & prepensedly, than he should without all exception be put to death. And herein is great abuse, that two having committed one and the same fault the one shall be pardoned, and the other executed. If it be so that both have committed offence worthy of death, let both die for it, if not, why should either die, Experience proveth this true, for if a Gentleman commit a grievous offence, and a poor man commit the like, the poor shall be sure of his Sursum collum? But the other shall be pardoned. So Diogenes seeing a sort of poor men going to hanging fell into a great laughter. And being demanded wherefore he laughed, he answered at the vanity, and folly of this blind word. For saith he, I see great thieves lead little thieves to hanging. And to say the truth, before God, is not he a greater thief that robbeth a man of his good name for ever, that taketh a man's house over his head, before his years be expired, that wresteth from a man his goods, his lands, and livings, whereupon he, his wife, children and family should live, than he that stealeth a sheep, a cow, or an ox, for necessity's sake only, having not otherwise to relieve his need? And is not he a great thief that taketh great sums of money of the poor (under the names of ●ées, and doth little or nothing for them? Though this be not theft before the world, nor punishable by penal laws, yet before God it is plain theft, and punishable with eternal torments in hell. Let them take heed to it.  Theod. 
Cannot the prince then pardon any malefactor?  Amphil. 
Some are of opinion that the prince by his power imperial and prerogative may pardon and remit the penalty of any law, either divine, or human, but I am of opinion that if God's law condemn him, no prince ought to save him, but to execute judgement, and justice without respect of persons to all indifferently. But in causes wherein God's law doth not condemn him, the prince may pardon the offender, if there appear likelihood of amendment in him. And yet let the prince be sure of this, to answer at the day of judgement before the tribunal seat of GOD, for all the offences that the party pardoned shall commit any time of his life after. For if the prince had cut him off when the law had passed on him, that evil had not been committed. To this purpose I remember I have heard a certain pretty apotheg●e uttered by a jester to a king. The king had pardoned one of his subjects that had committed murder, who being pardoned committed the like offence again, and by means was pardoned the second time also, and yet filling up the measure of his iniquity, killed the third, and being brought before the king, the king being very sorry, asked why he had killed three men, to whom his jester standing by replied, saying: No (O king) he killed but the first, and thou hast killed the other two: for if thou hadst hanged him up at the first, the other two had not been killed, therefore thou hast killed them, and shalt answer for their blood. Which thing being heard, the king hanged him up straightway as he very well deserved: yet notwithstanding I grant that a prince by his power regal, and prerogative imperial may pardon offenders, but not such as God's laws and good conscience do condemn, as I said before. The power of a prince is comprehended In Rebus licitis in Deo, but not In Rebus illicitis contra Deum: In things lawful in God, not in things unlawful contrary to God. No power or principality upon the earth whatsoever may dispense with the law of God, but what it setteth down must stand inviolable. Therefore if it be asked me wherein a prince may pardon any malefactor, I answer for the breach or violation of any human law, ordinance, constitution, statute, or sanction, but not against God's word and law in any condition.  Theod. 
How is justice ministered there, sincerely and truly, so as the poor have no cause justly to complain, or otherwise?  Amphil. 
If any have cause to complain (as alas too many have) it is for want of due execution of the laws, not for lack of good laws. For God be praised there be many good laws, but indeed now and then through the negligence of the officers they are coldly executed. But if the laws there in force were without partiality duly executed, there should be n●iust occasion for any to complain. And truly to speak my conscience there is great partiality in the magistrates and officers, nay great corruption. For if a rich man, and a poor man chance to have to do before them, the matter I warrant you shall quickly be ended, and my life for yours shall go upon the rich man● side, notwithstanding the poor man's right be apparent to all the world. But if two poor men of equal estate go to law together, than their suit shall hang three or four years, peradventure seven years, a dozen, ye● twenty years before it be ended, till either the one, or both be made beggars. For reformation whereof I would wish judges and officers to respect the cause, not the persons, the matter, not the gain? and not to regard either letter or any thing else, which might be sent them to pervert true judgement. And justice being ministered, then to read over their commendatory letters in God's name, remembering what the wise man saith: Gifts blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert judgement. The lawyers I would wish to take less fees of their clients. For is not this a plain theft before God to take ten, twenty, or forty shillings of one poor man at one time, and so much of a great sort at once, and yet to speak never a word for the most part of it? And notwithstanding that they can be present but at one bar at once, yet will they take divers fees of sundry clients to speak for them at three or four places in one day. The other officers who grant forth the warrants, the Subpoenas, the Scire facias, and divers other writs, and those who keep the seals of the same, I would wish to take less fees also. For is not this too unreasonable to take a crown, or ten shillings for writing six or seven lines, or little more. And then the keeper of the seal, for a little wax, he must have as much as the other. And thus they suck out (as it were) even the very marrow out of poor men's bones. The sheriffs, bailiffs, and other officers also, I would wish, for fees, for bribes, for friendship and rewards, not to return a Tarde venit, or a Non est inventus, when they either have sent the party word to avoid covertly, or else looking through their fingers see him, & will not see him, forcing hereby the poor plaintiff to lose not only his great & importable charges in the law, but also peradventure his whole right of that which he sueth for. Thus let every officer by what kind of name or title soever he be called, or in what kind of calling soever he be placed, do all things with single eye, and good conscience, that God may be glorified, the common peace maintained, justice supported, and their own consciences discharged against the great day of the Lord, when all flesh shall be convented before the tribunal seat of GOD all naked as ever they were borne, to render accounts of all their doings, whether they be good or bad, and to receive a reward according to their deeds. By all which it appeareth that if any for want of justice have cause to complain, it is thorough the corruption of iniquity, avarice, and ambition of greedy and insatiable cormorants, who for desire of gain, make havoc of all things, yea, make shipwreck of bodies and souls to the devil for ever, unless they repent.  Theod. 
How far are princes laws to be obeyed, in all things indifferently without exception?  Amphil. 
In all things not contrary to the law of God and good conscience, which if they be against God, and true godliness, then must we say with the apostles, Melius est deo obedire, quam hominibus, It is better to obey God than man.  Theod. 
If the prince than do set forth a law contrary to the law of God, and do constrain us to do that, that God's words commandeth us we shall not do. In this or the like case, may subjects lawfully take arms, and rise against their prince?  Amphil. 
No, at no hand, unlest they will purchase to themselves eternal damnation, and the wrath of God for ever. For it is not lawful for the subjects to rise up in arms against their liege prince for any occasion whatsoever. For proof whereof we read that our saviour Christ was, not only obedient to the maigistrates, and superior powers in all things, but also taught his apostles, disciples, and in them all people and nations of the world, the very same doctrine. And therefore the apostle saith, Omnis anima potestatibus superioribus subdita sit? Let every soul submit himself to the higher powers, for there is no power but of God. And he that resisteth this power, resisteth the ordinance of God, and purchaseth to himself eternal damnation. Peter also giveth the like charge, that obedience in all godliness be given to the superior powers, and that prayers and intercessions be made, for kings and rulers, and giveth the reason why, namely, that we may lead Vitam pacificam, A peaceable life under them.  Theod. 
Why? How then? If we shall not resist them, than we do obey them in any thing either good or bad.  Amphil. 
No, not so neither. In all things not contrary to God's word we must obey them, on pain of damnation. But in things contrary to the word and truth of God, we are thus to do. We must depose and lay forth ourselves both body, and goods, life, and lime, (our conscience only excepted, in the true obedience whereof, we are to serve our God) even all that we have of nature, and committing the same into the hands of the prince, submit ourselves, and lay down our necks upon the block, choosing rather to die than to do any thing contrary to the law of God and good conscience. And this is that, that the apostles meant when they said: It is better to obey God than man. Not that obedience to man in all godliness is forbid, but that obedience to God is to be preferred before the obedience to man.  Theod. 
What if the prince be a tyrant, a wicked prince, and an ungodly, is he notwithstanding to be obeyed?  Amphil. 
Yea truly in the same order as I have showed before. For whether the prince be wicked, or godly, he is sent of GOD, because the Apostle saith: There is no power but of God. If the prince be a godly prince, then is he sent as a great blessing from GOD, and if he be a tyrant, then is he raised of GOD for a scourge to the people for their sins. And therefore whether the prince be the one, or the other, he is to be obeyed as before.  Theod. 
And be kings and rulers to be beloved, and prayed for of their subjects?  Amphil. 
That is without all doubt. For he that hateth his prince in his heart, is a contemner of God's ordinance, a traitor unto GOD, and to his country: yea he is to love his prince as well as himself, and better, if better can be, and to pray for him as for himself. For that an infinite number do rest and depend upon his Majesty, which do not so upon himself. So that the miscarrying of him, were the destruction (peradventure) of many thousands.  Theod. 
This being so, then hath Dnalgne great cause to pray for their prince, by whose worthy endeavour, and wise government, the state of that realm is so peaceably maintained.  Amphil. 
They have great cause indeed not only to love her Majesty, but also to pray for her Grace, and whosoever will not do so, I beseech the LORD in the bowels of his mercy, to stop their breath, and to take them away quickly from the face of the earth. For by her highness wise government, the realm is in peace, God's word flourisheth, and abundance of all things floweth in the same, the Lord God be praised therefore, and preserve her noble Grace long to reign amongst us. Amen.  Theod. 
Let us proceed a little further, I pray you how is the youth of that country brought up in learning, or otherwise?  Amphil. 
The youth truly is well brought up, both in good letters, nurture, and manners for the most part. For the better performance whereof, they have excellent good schools, both in cities, towns, and countries, wherein abundance of children are learnedly brought up, But yet notwithstanding some parents are much to be blamed in the education of their children, for the most keep their sons to school, but for a time, till they can write and read, and well if all that too, and very seldom or never do they keep them so long at their books, as until they attain to any perfect knowledge indeed. So that by this means learning doth and is like greatly to decay. And if one ask them, why they keep not their children to school till they prove learned, they will answer, Because I see learning and learned men are little esteemed, and me think the best of them can hardly live by the same. And therefore I will set him to an occupation, which will be always sure. As herein they say true, so I cannot but lament the small preferment now adays that learning getteth in the world amongst men, & the small account that is made of the same. This is the cause why learning doth, and will in time greatly decay. For who is he that having spent all his substance upon learning, yea his body, strength, and all, and yet can hardly live thereby, and maintain himself withal, that will covet after learning, which is both so chargeable, and painful to be come by?  Theod. 
Be there not Universities, colleges, and free schools, where youth may be brought up in learning Gratis without any charges to their parents?  Amphil. 
There are such places indeed. But alas they are abused & perverted to other ends than was intended by them at the first. For whereas those places had great livings, rents, revenues, & possessions given to them, it was to this only end and purpose, that those poor children whose parents were not able otherwise to maintain them at learning, should be brought up upon the charges of the house, and not those whose parents are able to maintain them of themselves. But now we see the contrary is true, and whereas they were given to maintain none but the poor only, now they maintain none but the rich only. For except one be able to give the regent or provost of the house, a piece of money, ten pound, twenty pound, forty pound, yea, a hundred pound, a yoke of fat oxen, or a couple of fine geldings, or the like though he be never so toward a youth, nor have never so much need of maintenance, yet he comes not there I warrant him. If he cannot prevail this way. Let him get him letters commendatory from some of reputation, and perchance he may speed, in hope of benefit to ensue. So that the places in the universities and free schools, seem rather to be sold for money and friendship, then given gratis, to them that have need, as they ought to be.  Theod. 
Are there not many inferior schools in the country beside, both for the instruction and catechizing of youth?  Amhpil. 
There are so, almost in every parish. But alas, such small pittance is allowed the schoolmasters, as they can neither buy them libraries, nor which is less, hardly maintain themselves, which thing altogether dissuadeth them from their books, and is occasion why many a one snorteth in palpable ignorance all days of their life.  Theod. 
Would you have any man without exception, to take upon him the office of a schoolmaster, and to teach the youth?  Amphil. 
No at no hand. First I would wish that every one that is a schoolmaster, how learned, or unlearned soever, should be examined, as well for his religion, and his sufficiency in knowledge, as also for his integrity of life, & being found sound in them all, to be allowed & admitted to teach. For if every one that would should take upon him to teach without further trial, then might there great inconvenience follow. For papists and other schismatics, apostates, or else whatsoever, might thrust in themselves, & so corrupt the youth. Ignorant & unlearned would take upon them high learning, & so delude their scholars. And if his life should not be answerable to his profession, then should he pervert his auditory also, Therefore in my judgement is there great choice to be made of schoolmasters. Thus they being tried, let them be admitted gratis, by authority. But now there is great abuses herein, for being found sufficient in all respects, yet must he be constrained to take a licence, whether he will or not, and must pay x. xvi. or xx. shillings for it & yet will this serve him no longer, than he tarrieth in that diocese, & coming into another he must pay as much there for the like licence also, whereas peradventure he shall scarcely get so much clear in three or four years, in that diocese, they have such fat pasture. But if they would needs have them to have licenses, (which I grant to be very good.) I would wish they might have them gratis, without money, for if it be lawful for them to teach for money, it is also lawful without. And if they be not worthy, it is pity that money should make them worthy, and again, if they be worthy, it is pity that without money they cannot be so accepted.  Theod. 
What way were best to be taken for the good education of youth?  Amphil. 
It were good (if it might be brought to pass) that in every parish throughout the Realm, there were an indifferent able man appointed for the instruction of youth in good letters, having a reasonable stipend allowed him of the same parish for his pains. But now they teach and take pains, for little or nothing, which utterly discourageth them, and maketh many a cold scholar, in Dnalgne, as experience daily teacheth.  Theod. 
Be there men of all kind of trades, occupations, and arts, as there be in other countries.  Amhpil. 
Yea, truly: there are men of all sciences, trades, mysteries, faculties, occupations, and arts whatsoever, and that as cunning as any be under the sun. Yea, so expert they be, as if they would let a thing alone when it is well, they were the bravest workmen in the world. But as they seek to excel and surpass all other nations, in fineness of workmanship, so now and than they reap the fruits of their vain curiosity, to their own detriment, hindrance, and decay.  Theod. 
How live the merchant men amongst them, are they rich and wealthy, or but poor?  Amphil. 
How should they be poor, gaining as they do, more than half in half in every thing they buy or sell? And which is more, sometimes they gain double and triple, if I said quadruple I lied not.  Theod. 
I pray you how can that be so?  Amphil. 
I will tell you. They have money to lay forth upon every thing, to buy them at the first, and best hand, yea, to engross, and to store themselves with abundance of all things. And then will they keep these merchandise till they wax very scarce, (and no marvel for they buy up all things) and so consequently dear. And then will they sell them at their own prices, or else (being able to bear the money) they will keep them still. By this means they get the devil and all, besides these, they have a hundred flights in their budgets to rake in gain withal.  Theod. 
I pray you what be those?  Amphil. 
They will go into the countries, and buy up all the wool, corn, leather, butter, cheese, bacon, or else what merchandise soever they know will be vendible, and these they transport over seas, whereby they gain infinite sums of money.  Theod. 
That is wonderful that they are so permitted: are there no laws, nor prohibitions to the contrary, that no wool, corn, or leather, should be transported over seas?  Amphil. 
There are good laws, and great restraints to the contrary, in so much as they be apparent traitors to God, their prince and country, that carry any of the foresaid things over without special licence thereto. Yet notwithstanding, either by hook, or crook, by night or day, by direct, or indirect means, either known or unknown, they will convey them over, though their own country want the same. But to avoid all dangers, they purchase a licence, & a dispensation for money, bearing the prince in hand that they do it for some good cause, when indeed the cause is their own private gain. And for the speedier obtaining of their desires, they demand licence for the carriage over but of so much and so much, when in truth they convey over under the colour of this their licence ten times, twenty times, yea, a hundred times, five hundred times, yea, a thousand times as much more. And thus they delude their prince, impoverish their country, and enrich themselves, feeding, clothing and enriching our enemies with our own treasure. Hereby it cometh to pass that all things are dearer, and scarcer, than otherwise they would be, if restraint were had, and I warrant them many a black curse have they of the poor commons for their doing.  Theod. 
Would you not have licences granted for the transporting over of such things for no cause?  Amphil. 
Yes. But first I would have our own people served that they want not in any case. For it is very unmeet to feed foreign nations, and our own country famish at home. But if it were so, that Dnalgne flowed in abundance and plenty of all things, whatsoever are necessary for the use and sustentation of man in this life, and other nations (provided that they be our friends and of christian religion) wanted the same, then would I wish that some of our superfluity might be erogate to them, to the supply of their necessities, but not otherwise. And this standeth both with the laws of God, charity, and good conscience.  Theod. 
These are marvelous sleights to get money withal. But I pray you have they no more?  Amphil. 
They want none I warrant you, for rather than to fail, they have their false weights, their counterfeit balances, their adulterate measures, and what not, to deceive the poor people withal, and to rake in money. But the Wise man telleth them, that false balances, counterfeit weights, and untrue measures are abomination to the Lord. And the Apostle telleth them, that God is the just revenger of all those that deceive their brethren in bargaining. And yet shall you have them in the sale of their wares to swear, to tear▪ and protest, that before God, before jesus Christ, as God shall save my soul, as God shall judge me, as the Lord liveth, as God receive me, as God help me, by God and by the world, by my faith and troth, by jesus Christ, and infinite the like oaths, that such a thing cost them so much, & so much, and it is worth this much, and that much, when in truth they swear as false, as the living Lord is true, as their own consciences can bear them witness, and I fear me will condemn them at the day of the Lord, if they repent not. For if a thing cost them ten shillings, they will not blush to ask twenty shillings for it. If it cost them twenty shillings, they will not shame to ask forty shillings for it, and so of all others, doubling, tripling, and quadrupling the price thereof without either fear of God, or regard of good conscience.  Theod. 
What say you of the Drapers, and cloth sellers, live they in the same order that the other do?  Amphil. 
Of Drapers I have little to say, saving that I think them cater cousins, or cousin germans to merchants. For after they have bought their cloth, they cause it to be tentered, racked, and so drawn out, as it shall be both broader, and longer than it was when they bought it almost by half in half, or at lest by a good large size. Now the cloth being thus stretched forth in every vain, how is it possible either to endure, or hold out, but when a shower of rain taketh it, than it falleth and shrinketh in, that it is shame to see it. Then have they their shops and places where they sell their cloth commonly very dark and obscure, of purpose to deceive the buyers. But Caveat emptor (as the old saying is) Let the buyers take heed. For Technas machinant, & retia tendunt pedibus, as the saying is: They mean deceit, and lay snares to entrap the feet of the simple. And yet notwithstanding they will be sure to make price of their racked cloth double, and triple more than it cost them. And will not stick to swear, and take on (as the other their confraters before) that it cost them so much, and that they do you no wrong. God give them grace to have an eye to their consciences, and to content themselves with reasonable gains.  Theod. 
I think there is great fault to be found in the first makers of the cloth, for the naughtiness thereof, as well as in the Drapers, is there not?  Amphil. 
No doubt of that. For some put in naughty wool, and cause it to be spun & drawn into a very small thread, and then compounding with the Fuller to thick it very much, and with the Clothier also to shear it very low, and with some liquid matter, to lay down the wool so close, as you can hardly see any wale, and then selleth it as though it were a very fine cloth indeed. Other some mix good w●●ll, and naughty wool together, and using i● as before, they sell it for principal good cloth, when it is no thing less. And then for their further advantage, every vain, every joint, and every thread must be so tentered and racked, as I warrant it for ever being good after. Now it being thus tentered at his hands, and after at the Draper's hands, I pray you how should this cloth be aught, or endure long?  Theod. 
Be there Goldsmiths there any store also, as in some other countries there be?  Amphil. 
There are enough, and more than a good meinie. They are (for the most part) very rich, and wealthy, or else they turn the fairest side outward as many do in D●algne. They have their shops and stalls fraught and bedecked with chains, rings, gold, silver, and what not wonderful richly. They will make you any monster, or antic whatsoever of gold, silver, or what you will. They have store of all kind of plate whatsoever. But what? Is there no deceit in all these goodly shows? Yes too many. If you will buy a chain of gold, a ring, or any kind of plate, besides that you shall pay almost half in half more than it is worth (for they will perusade you the workmanship of it comes to so much, the fashion to so much, and I cannot tell what) you shall also perhaps either have that gold which is nought, or else at least mixed with other drossy rubbage, and refuse metal, which in comparison is good for nothing. And sometimes or for the most part you shall have tin, lead, and the like mixed with silver. And again in some things some will not stick to sell you silver gilded for gold, and well if no worse too now and then. But this happeneth very seldom, by reason of good orders, and constitutions made for the punishment of them that offend in this kind of deceit, and therefore they seldom dare offend therein, though now and then they chance to stumble in the dark.  Theod. 
Have you good wines in Dnalgne?  Amphil. 
Indeed there are excellent wines as any be in the world, yet not made within the Realm, but coming from beyond seas: which when the vintners have once got into their clutches, and placed in their sellers, I warrant you they make of one hogshead almost two, or at least, one and a half, by mixing & blenting one with another, & infusing other liquor into them. So that it is almost unpossible, to get a cup of pure wine of itself at the tavern. But harsh, rough, stiptic, and hard wine, neither pleasant to the mouth, nor wholesome to the body. And notwithstanding that they gain (well-near) one hogshead in another, yet shall their measures, their gallons, pints, and quarts be so spare, and their prices so high, that it is wonderful to see. And if a poor simple man go to drink a pint of wine for the strengthening of his body, and for necessity's sake only, he shall be sure to have that wine brought him, that is too bad, though his money (I am sure) is as good as the rich man's. But if a man of countenance come to drink for pleasure & niceness, he shall have of the best wine in the seller, though his money be no better than the poor man's. With infinite the like abuses, which I omit.  Theod. 
Have you any thing to say of Butchers, and those that kill and sell meat to eat?  Amphil. 
Nothing but this: that they are not behind in their abuses, fallacies, and deceits. For whereas they pay a certain price for a fat beef, they are so impudent that they think their market is nought, except they may gain half in half, or the best quarter at the least. And to the end their meat may be more saleable to the eye, the fairer, and the fatter, they will kill their beasts, and suffer the blood to remain within them still, for this cause that it may incorporate itself in the flesh, and so thereby the flesh may not only be the weightier (for in some places they buy all by weight) but also may seem both fresher, fairer, newer, tenderer, and younger. And which is more commonly they use to blow, and puff it up with wind, to the end it may seem bigger, fatter, and fairer to the eye. Or if the meat itself be lean, and nought, then will they take the fat of other meat, and pin upon the same very artificially, and all to delude the eyes of the beholders. And though it be never so old meat, tough, and stolen, yet will they swear, protest, and take on wonderfully, that it is very new, fresh, and tender. So that no more in them than in others, there is little conscience at all. There be some of them also now and then that will not stick to sell meat which hath died (perchance) in a ditch, if it be worth the eating (which is most lamentable) and yet will bear the world in hand that it is excellent meat, that it died kindly, and so forth. So that hereby infinite diseases are caught, and many times present death ensueth to the eaters thereof.  Theod. 
Is meat dear or good cheap there for the most part?  Amphil. 
It is commonly dear, seldom good theape, and the reason is, because a sort of insatiable cormorants, greedy graziers I mean, who having raked together infinite pasture, feed all themselves, and will not sell for any reasonable gain, and then must the Butchers needs sell dear, when as they buy dear.  Theod. 
Why? would you have no graziers, then how could there be any meat fatted?  Amphil. 
Yes I would have graziers. But I would not have a few rich cobs to get into their clouches almost whole countries, so as the poor can have no relief by them. For by this means pastures and grounds are not only excessively dear, but also not to be got of any poor men for money, whereby it cometh to pass, that the poor are impoverished, and the rich only benefited. Yea so greatly are the poor hereby enthralled, that they can hardly get a piece of ground to keep so much as a poor cow or two upon for the maintenance of themselves, and their poor families. This is a great abuse: for by this means rich men eat● up poor men, as beasts eat up grass.  Theod. 
Do the gentlemen and others, take in commons & enclosures (as your words seem to imply) for their better feeding?  Amphil. 
Yea, almost all indifferently. For whereas before was any commons, heaths, moors, plains, or free places of feeding for the poor and others, even all in general, now you shall have all several, enclosed, and appropriate to a few greedy gentlemen, who will never have enough, till their mouths be full of clay, and their body full of gravel. Commons and moors which were wont to be the only stay of the poor, & whereupon each might keep cattle, both neat and sheep, according to his estate, are now taken from them, whereby many are constrained either to famish, or else to beg their bread from door to door. So that in process of time if these enclosures be suffered to continue, the state of the whole Realm will mightily decay, a few shall be enriched, & many a thousand poor people both men, women, and children, in city and country, utterly beggared. Oh it was a goodly matter, when the poor man might turn out a cow, or two, & certain numbers of sheep to the commons, and have them kept well upon the same, both winter & summer, freely without costing them aught, whereas now they are enclosed, made several, and employed to the private commodity of a few ambitious gentlemen, so as the poor man cannot keep so much as a pig or a goose upon the same.  Theod. 
It is great pity that such oppression of the poor should be borne withal or suffered in any of what degree soever.  Amphil. 
It is so. But what than. You shall have some that not for the benefit of grafing, and feeding only will take in commons, and enclosures, but also some that for vain glory, worldly pomp, promotion & foolish pleasure, will not stick to pull down whole towns. subvert whole parishes, and turning forth all a begging, rather than to fail, make them parks, chases, warrants and I cannot tell what of the same. And when they have thus done, their bucks, their does, their stags, hearts, hinds, coneys and the like, not only not fead, intra gyrum suum, Within their circuit, but eat up and devour all the poor men's fields, ●orne, grass and all. So that it is hard if any poor man's corn scape their fangs within a dozen miles compass, which is a pitiful and a lamentable case.  Theod. 
Would you not have parks, and chases for game?  Amphil. 
I disallow them not. But I would not have them to be made of the poor men's livings, nor yet to stand to the prejudice of the whole country adjoining. Therefore if they will have parks and chases. First let them see that they be of their own proper land, and then that they be no annoyance to the country about, and then let them have them in the name of God.  Theod. 
Be there any graziers of sheep there also.  Amphil. 
Two many, if it pleased God. For now every mean gentleman if he can pretend (though never so little) title to any common, heath, moor, or pasture, he will have it, quo iure, quaue iniuria, Either by hook or crook. And whereas before time there hath been a whole parish or town maintained upon the same, now is there no body there dwelling, but a shepherd and a dog folling under a hush▪ Thus are whole parishes and towns made prays to rich graziers. Yea, you shall have some graziers to keep five hundred, a thousand, five thousand, ten thousand, twenty thousand sheep of his own at one time, now judge you what infinite commodities ariseth hereof. Besides that, when they fell their wool (as though they gained not enough otherwise) it is a world to see what subtleties, (I will not say what falsities) they use in the sale thereof. As first, to intermixed and blent the good and naughty wool together, to wind it up clooselie that if shall not be seen within. And which is more, because they sell all by weight, they will not stick to use sinister means to make it pease well in weight. Some lay it after it is clipped from the sheeps back in a moist seller, underneath the ground to the end that the moisture, humidity, and wet of the seller may instill into it, and so may pease the more. Othersome will cast wet salt into it, which in time will liquifie, and cause it to be the weightier. With many other the like wicked sleights, and legerdimeanes, whereof for that I would rather give them a taste in hope of amendment, than a plain description for fear of displeasing them, at this time I will omit to speak any more till further occasion be offered.  Theod. 
Is the land there possessed in common, or else is their property in all things, and so consequently landlords?  Amphil. 
There is not only a property in lands there, but also in all things else, and so landlords enough more than be good ones iwis.  Theod. 
Do they let out their lands, their farms, and tenements, so as the poor tenants may live well upon them.  Amphil. 
Oh no. Nothing less. But rather the contrary is most true. For when a gentleman or other hath a farm, or a lease to let: first he causeth a surveyor to make strict inquiry what may be made of it, and how much it is worth by year, which being found out, and signified to the owner, he racketh it, straineth it, and as it were so setteth it on the tenter hooks, stretching every vain, and joint thereof, as no poor man can live of it. And yet if he might have it freely for this racked rend too, it were somewhat well. But (out alas, and fie for shame) that cannot be. For though he pay never so great an annual rent, yet must be pay at his entrance a fine, or (as they call it) an income often pound, twenty pound, forty pound, threescore pound, an hundred pound, whereas in truth the purchase thereof is hardly worth somuch. So that hereby the poor man if he have scraped any little thing together, is forced to disburse it at the first dash before he enter the doors of his poor farm, wherein, what through the excessive fine, and the unreasonable rent, he is scarce able to buy his dog a loaf, living like a beggar, or little better all his life after. The time hath been, and not long since, when men feared God, & loved their brethren, that one might have had a house, with pasture lying to it, yea good farms, leases, and livings for little or nothing. Or (as some hold) for a God's penny as they called it. But howsoever it be, certain it is, that that farm or lease, which one might have had then for ten shillings, is now worth ten pound. For twenty shillings, now is worth twenty or threescore pound. For forty shillings, is now worth forty pound, or an hundred pound and more.  Theod. 
Then I perceive, they let not out their land after the old rent: do they?  Amphil. 
No. You may be sure of that, they love nothing worse. They cannot at any hand brook or digest them that would counsel them to that.  Theod. 
Why? Have not landlords authority, and may they not make as much of their own lands as they can? They count that good policy, and I have heard them say: Is it not lawful for me to live upon mine own, and to get as much for it as I can?  Amphil. 
They must first consider that the earth is the Lord (as the Psalmograph saith: Domini est terra, & plenitudo eius, The earth is the Lords, and the fullness thereof) and all that dwelleth therein. And therefore being the Lords in property, it is theirs but in use only. And yet not so. But that they ought to lay it forth to the support of the poor, that all may live jointly together, & maintain the state of the common wealth to God's glory. For otherwise if a few rich cobs should have all, & the poor none▪ it should come to pass; that the state of the common wealth would soon decay, & come to confusion. They ought also to consider how they came by their lands, whether by right or wrong. If by right, then are they bound by God's law, and good conscience to let forth the same so as the poor may well live upon them. But if they possess the wrongfully, then ought they to surrender their title, and give it to the right heir: but take them with that fault & cut of their necks. No man ought to pool and pill his brother, nor yet to exact, and extort of him more than right, & reason requireth, being sure that the same measure which he measureth to others, shall be measured to him again▪ Every one must so deal with his own, so let it out, & so live as others may live by him & not himself alone, for the earth is common to all Adam's children, & though fortune have given more abundance to some than to other some, yet dame nature hath brought forth all alike, & will receive them again into her womb alike also. And therefore ought every christian to do to others, as they would wish to be done to, which law if it were observed well, would cut of all oppression whatsoever.  Theod. 
I pray you how came noble men, and gentlemen by their lands at the first?  Amphil. 
Cicero saith that in the beginning before the world was impeopled men coming into huge & waste places inhabitable, either took to themselves as much land as they would or else won it by the sword, bought it by purchase, had it by gift, or else received it from their forefathers, by lineal descent, or hereditary possession. Which saying of his must needs be true both in the people of the former world & in us also. Then seeing this is so, ought not every good christian to set forth his land so as poor men may live upon it aswell as himself▪ whosoever doth not this, eschewing all kind of exaction polling, pilling & shaving of his poor tenants, he is no perfect member of Christ, nor doth not as he would be done by.  Theod. 
You talked before of fines, and incomes, what if a poor man be not able to pay them, what then?  Amphil. 
Then may he go sue the goose, for house gets he none, the devil shall have it before him, if he will give him money enough: no, if the fine be not paid (though the rent be never so great) he shall have a fig, assoon as a house. If the a poor man have got never so little a stock to live upon, & to maintain his occupation or trade withal, yet shall he be constrained to sell the same, yea, peradventure all the goods and implements he hath to pay this fine, so that during the whole term of his life, he shall hardly recover the same again. And then his lease being expired, out of doors goes he, for that he is not able to pay as great a fine or greater than before. Thus are many a one with their wives, children, and whole families turned out a begging, and die not a few of them in extreme misery.  Theod. 
I thought one might have had a farm, or a lease for a reasonable rent yearly, without any fine or income paying.  Amphil. 
One would think so. For paying as much yearly, as can be made of the thing itself, I wonder what devil put it into their heads, to receive such fines and incomes to undo the poor withal. The devil himself I think will not be so strait la●●d, nor yet so niggard to his servants, as they are to their poor tenants. For whereas they will not let out a farm or a lease for one and twenty years without a great fine, the devil will give them his whole territory and kingdom of hell, to their inheritance for ever, and that freely, paying nothing for the same. And yet notwithstanding all this. There are some landlords, (nay lewdlords) that having racked their rents to the uttermost, exacted fines, & made all that ever they can of their farms, will yet proceed further, and as men never content with enough, will have their poor tenants to pay a year or two years rend before hand, promising them (before they have it) that they shall pay no more rend yearly, till the same be run up. But when they have it, they pay their yearly rent notwithstanding, and never receive any restitution for the other. And at every change forsooth they must take new leases, and pay new fines, being borne in hand that their leases before are insufficient, and of no effect. And sometimes four or five years yea, ten, twenty, forty, or fifty years before their former lease be expired, shall they be constrained to renew their leases, and disburse great sums, or else have their houses taken over their heads. Besides, as though these pollages and pillages were not ill enough, if their leases be not warily and circumspectly made (all quirks, and quiddities of the law observed) they will find such means (or else it shall go very hard) that the poor man shall forfeit his lease, before his lease be expired: which thing if it happen, out goes the poor man, come on it what will.  Theod. 
Are the instruments, the writings, & conveyances in that land so intricate, as they are hard to be kept, for so I gather by your words?  Amphil. 
Yea truly. For whereas in times past when men dealt uprightly, and in the fear of God, six or seven lines was sufficient for the assurance of any piece of land whatsoever, now 40.60.100.200.500. nay a whole skin of parchment, and sometimes 2. or 3. skins will hardly serve. Wherein shallbe so many provisoes, so many circumstances, so many exceptions, particles, & clauses, & so many observances, that it is hard for a poor ignorant man to keep half of them: and if he fail in one of the lest, you know what followeth. In former time a man's bare word was sufficient, now no instrument, band, nor obligation can be sure enough. Fie upon us, what shall become of us? we are they of whom the prophet speaketh, saying: There is no faith, there is no truth nor righteousness left upon the earth. God be merciful unto us.  Theod. 
Seeing that farms, and leases are so dear, I am persuaded that every thing else is dear also: is it not so?  Amphil. 
Yea truly it cannot be chosen. And yet it is strange, that in abundance of allthings there should be dearth of all things, as there is.  Theod. 
Who is it long of, can you tell?  Amphil. 
Truly of the landlords only in my simple judgement: for when as they enhance the rents, & set their fines on tenter as they do, how should the poor man do? Must he not sell all his things a great deal the dearer? Else how should he either save himself, pay his rent, or maintain his family? so that these greedy landlords are the very causers of all the dearth in Dnalgne for truly they are worse than the caterpillars & locusts of Egypt, for they yet left some thing undevoured, these nothing, they spoilt but for a time, these for ever: those by commandment from God, these by commission from the devil.  Theod. 
How I pray you do these jolly fellows spend these wicked gotten goods?  Amphil. 
I shame to think, & I blush to tell you how. For, for the most part, they spend it in dicing, carding, bowling, tennis playing, in rioting, feasting, & banqueting, in hawking, hunting, & other the like profane exercises. And not only upon these things do they spend their goods (or rather the goods of the poor) but also in pride their Summum gaudium, & upon their dancing minions, that mince it full gingerly God wots, tripping like goats that an egg would not break under their feet. But hereof enough, & more than perchance will please their dainty humours.  Theod. 
Do they exceed in pride of apparel, or are they very temperate, & sober minded people?  Amphil. 
They are not only not inferior to any nation in the world in the excess of apparel, but are far worser, if worser can be, For the tailors do nothing else but invent new fashions, disguised shapes, and monstrous forms of apparel every day. Yea surely I think they study more in one day for the invention of new toys, and strange devices in apparel, than they do in seven years, yea, in all the days of their life for the knowledge of God's word.  Theod. 
Me think then by your reasons it seemeth, that Tailors are the causers of all that monstrous kind of attire worn in Dnalgne, and so consequently are guilty of all the evil committed by the same.  Amphil. 
You say very truly. For Mali alicuius author, ipsius mali, & malorum omnium quae ex inde orientur, reus erit coram Deo, The author of any evil, is not only guilty before God of the evil committed, but also of all the evil, which springeth of the same. Therefore I would wish them to beware, & not Communicare alienis peccatis, To be partakers of other men's sins, for be sure they shall find enough of their own to answer for. But so far are they from making conscience hereof, that they heap up sin upon sin. For if a man ask them how much cloth, velvet, or silk will make a cote, a doublet, a cloak, a gown, hosen, or the like, they must needs have so much, as they may gain the best quarter thereof to themselves. So play they with the lace also: for if ten yards would serve, they must have twenty, if twenty would serve, they must have forty, if forty would serve, they must have sixty, if sixty would serve, they must an hundred, and so forward. Besides that, it must be so drawn out, stretched, and pulled in in the sowing, as they get the best quarter of it that way too. Then must there as much go for the making, as half the garment is worth. Besides this, they are in league, and in see with the Drapers and Clothsellers, that if a man come to them to desire them to help them to buy a piece of cloth, and to bring them where good is, they will straightway conduct them to their fear, and whatsoever price he setteth of the cloth, they persuade the buyer it is good, and that it is worth the money, whereas indeed it is nothing so, nor so. And thus they betwixt them divide the spoil, and he (the tailor) receives his wages for his faithful service done. If a man buy a garment of them made, he shall have it very fair to the eye (therefore it is true: Omne quod gliscit non est aurum, Every fair thing is not the best) but either it shallbe lived with filthy baggage, and rotten gear, or else stretched & drawn out upon the tenter, so as if they once come to wetting, they shrink almost half in half, so as it is a shame to see them. Therefore I advise every one to see to his garments himself▪ and according to the old proverb: Sit oculus ipsi coquus, Let his eye be his best cook, for fear lest he be served of the same sauce, as many have been to their great hindrance.  Theod. 
I have heard it said that they use great ruffs in Dnalgne, do they continue them still as they were wont to do, or not?  Amphil. 
There is no amendment in any thing that I can see, neither in one thing nor in other, but every day worser and worser, for they not only continue their great ruffs still, but also use them bigger than ever they did. And whereas before they were too bad, now they are passed all shame & honesty, yea most abominable and detestable, and such as the devil himself would be ashamed to wear the like. And if it be true, as I hear say, they have their starching houses made of purpose, to that use and end only, the better to trim and dress their ruffs to please the devils eyes withal.  Theod. 
Have they starching houses of purpose made to starch in? Now truly that passes ●hall that ever I heard. And do they nothing in those brothel houses (starching houses I should say) but only starch bands and ruffs?  Amphil. 
No, nothing else, for to that end only were they erected, & therefore now are consecrate to Belzebub and Cerberus archdivels of great ruffs.  Theod. 
Have they not also houses to set their ruffs in, to trim them, and to trick them as well as to starch them in?  Amphil. 
Yea marry have they, for either the same starching houses (I had almost said farting houses) do serve the turn, or else they have their other chambers and secret closerts to the same use, wherein they trick up these cartwhéeles of the devils chariot of pride, leading the direct way to the dungeon of hell.  Amphil. 
What tools and instruments have they to set their ruffs withal. For I am persuaded they cannot set them artificially enough without some kind of tools?  Amphil. 
Very true: and do you think that they want any thing that might set forth their devilry to the world? In faith sir no, than the devil were to blame if he should serve his clients so, that maintain his kingdom of pride with such diligence as they do. And therefore I would you witted it, they have their tools and instruments for the purpose.  Theod. 
Whereof be they made I pray you, or how?  Amhpil. 
They be made of iron and steel, and some brass, kept as bright as silver, yea and some of silver itself, and it is well, if in process of time they grow not to be gold. The fashion whereafter they be made, I cannot resemble to any thing so well as to a squirt, or a squib, which little children used to squirt out water withal, and when they come to starching, and setting of their ruffs, than must this instrument be heated in the fire, the better to stiffen the ruff. For you know heat will dry, and stiffen any thing. And if you would know the name of this goodly tool, forsooth the devil hath given it to name a putter, or else a putting stick, as I hear say. They have also another instrument called a setting stick, either of wood or bone, and sometimes of gold and silver, made forked wise at both ends, and with this (Si diis placet) they set their ruffs. But because this cursed fruit is not yet grown to his full perfection of ripeness, I will therefore at this time say no more of it, until I here more.  Theod. 
What is the leather in that country excellent good, and well tanned, or but indifferently. I have heard some complain of it.  Amphil. 
There is of both sorts as of all things else, but as there is some nought (I can not deny) so is there othersome as good, as any is under the sun. And yet I must needs confess, there is great abuse in the ●anners, makers, curriers, and dressers of the same: for you shall have some leather scarcely half tanned, so that within two or three days or a week wearing (especially if it come in any wet) will strait way become brown as a hare back, and which is more, fleet and run abroad like a dishclout, and which is most of all, will hold out no water, or very little. And the saying is (Erubesco dicere, I shame to speak it) that to the end they may save lime and bark, and make the speedier return of their money, they will take up their hides before they b●e half tanned, and make sale of them. And as herein they are faulty and much to be blamed, so in the surprising of their hides, they are worthy of reprehension. For that which they buy for ten shillings, they will hardly sell for twenty shillings, that which they buy for twenty shillings they will not willingly sell for forty shillings. And thus by this means, they make shoes unreasonable dear.  Theod. 
Then the fault is not in the shoemakers only, that shoes be so dear?  Amphil. 
There is fault enough in them also. For whereas the others inhause the price of their hides excessively, these fellows, rack it very unconcionably. And yet if the shoes were good, though dear, it were somewhat tolerable, but when they shall be both nought, and yet dear too, it is too bad, and abominable. Now if you ask the shoemakers in whom the fault doth consist, they will answer you straight in the ●anner. But this is certain, that as there is a horrible fault in the tanner, so there is more, or as much in the shoemaker. For first of all the shoemaker liquoreth his leather, with waterish liquor, kitthen stuff, and all kind of baggage mingled together. And as though that were not ill enough, they say they use to put salt in the liquor, wherewithal they grease the leather of purpose, to the end that the leather shall never hold out water. And truly it is very likely, they do so, or some such like thing, for surely almost none of their leather will hold out water, nor scarcely dirt neither. Besides this it is a world to see how lowsely they shall be sowed, with hot alles, and burning threads, every stitch an inch or two from another, so as with in two or three days you shall have them seamerent and all too betorne. And yet as though this were not ill enough they add more. Sometimes they will sell you calves leather for cow leather, horse hides for ox hides, and truly I think rotten sheep skins for good substantial & durable stuff. And yet shall a man pay for these as well as for better stuff. And to the end they may seem gaudy to the eye, they must be stiched finely, pincked, cut, carved, razed▪ nicked, and I cannot tell what. And good reason, for else would they never be sold. The inward fool of the shoe commonly shall be no better than a cats skin, the heels of the shoes shall be little better. And if the sooles be nought (as they be indeed, yet must they be underlaied with other pieces of leather, to make them seem thick, and excellent stuff, whereas indeed they are nothing less. And to make the sooles stiff, and hard, they must be parched before the fire, and then are they most excellent fools, And such as will never be worn, no I think not in half a coopple of days, which is a wonderful thing. Oh, farewell former world, for I have heard my Father say, and I think it most certainly true, that a pair of shoes in those days would have kept a man as dry as a feather, though he had gone in water all the day thorough, Yea, all the week thorough, to the very last day, and would have served a man almost a whole year together, with a little repairing. But now five or six pair, half a score, yea, twenty pair of shoes will scarcely serve some a year, such excellent stuff are they made of. But let all shoemakers tanner's, and the rest, take heed, for at the day of judgement they shall render accounts for this their doing. And hereof hitherto.  Theod. 
Be there any Brokers, or such kind of fellows in your country?  Amphil. 
If it be a thing that is good, it is a doubt whether it be there, or no, but if it be nought (as brokery is) then past peradventure it is there.  Theod. 
What manner of fellows are those Brokers, for truly their profession, and the use thereof is unknown to me, save only that I have heard of some of their dealings?  Amphil. 
Seeing that you are ignorant of this goodly mystery, and high profession of brokery, and also so desirous to know the truth of them, I will in few words (as briefly as I can) declare unto you the substance thereof. These Brokers are jolly fellows forsooth, and such as in the heginning of their occupation, have either just nothing, or else very little at all, who when they have attempted, and assayed by all kind of means, and ways to live, and cannot by any of them all either any thing thrive, or which is less, not so much as maintain their poor estate withal, though but meanly, then fall they into acquaintance with lose, dissolute, and licentious persons, either men or women, to whom all is fish that comes to net, and who have limed fingers, living upon pilfering, and stealing, and of these they-buy for little or nothing, whatsoever they shall have filched from any. And thus by this means in process of time, they feather their nests well enough, and grow (many of them) to great substance and wealth.  Theod. 
Will they buy any thing whatsoever cometh to hand?  Amphil. 
Yea all things indifferently without any exception. All is good fish with them that comes to net. They will refuse nothing whatsoever it be, nor whom soever bringeth it, though they be never so suspicious, no although it be as clear as the day, that it hath been purloined by sinister means from some one or other. And can you blame them? For why? They have it for half it is worth.  Amphil. 
What wares be they (for the most part) which these Brokers do buy and sell?  Amphil. 
I told you they will refuse nothing▪ But especially they buy remnants of silks, velvets, satins, damasks, grograins, taffetas, lace either of silk, gold, silver, or any thing else that is worth aught. Othersome buy cloaks, hose● doublets, hats, caps, coats, stockings, & the like. And these goodly merchandise, as they have them good cheap, so they will sell them again to their no small gains.  Theod. 
If this be true, that they will receive all, and buy all that comes to hand, than it must needs he that this is a great provocation▪ to many wicked persons, to filch & steal whatsoever they can lay their hands upon, seeing they may have such good vent for the same? Is it not?  Amphil. 
You say very true. And therefore I am persuaded that this dunghill trade of brokery newly sprung up, & coined in the devils minting house the shop of all mischief hath made many a thief more than ever would have been, & hath brought many a one to a shameful end at Tyburn, & else where. Yea I have hard prisoners (and not any almost but they sing the same song) when they have gone to execution, declaim, & cry out against brookers. For said they, if brokers had not been, we had not come to this shameful death, if they would not have received our stolen goods, we would never have stolen them, and if we had not stolen them we had not been hanged.  Theod. 
Then it seemeth by your reasons, that brokers are in effect accessary to the goods feloniously stolen, & are worthy of the same punishment that the others that stolen them are worthy of?  Amphil. 
They are so, if before they buy them they know precisely that they are stolen, & yet notwithstanding will not only willingly buy them, but also rather animate, than disanimate them to persevere in their wickedness, as this their greedy buying of their wares doth argue that they do. This maketh many a tailor to ask more cloth, more silk, velvet, & lace, than he needeth, & all to the end the broker may have his share, for be they never so little scraps or shreds or short ends of lace, or small pieces, of velvet, satan, silk or the like, the broker will give money for them, with a wet finger. This maketh many servants to pilfer, filch, & purloin from their masters, some a yard or two of velvet, satin, taffeta, lace silk, & what not, some hats cots, cloaks, & the like & some one thing, some another: this hindereth the merchant man, is discomodious to the tailor, & beneficial unto none, but to themselves: & therefore as they be the seminaries of wickedness, so I beseech God, they may be supplanted, except they amend, which I hardly look for at their hands.  Theod. 
What would you have them to do, that they may exercise their trade, with good conscience, both before God, and the world?  Amphil. 
I would wish them to do thus, which if they would do, they might use their trade in the fear of GOD, both with good conscience before the Lord, with honesty before the world, and finally to the less detriment of the common wealth. First let them be sure, that the goods which they buy be truly and justly come by of the sellers thereof. And to the end, that herein they may not be deceived. Let them examine the matter strictly, where they had it, whose it is, upon what occasion they would sell it. And in conclusion not to buy it, until they have gone themselves to the right owners of the goods, and if they find all things well, that they may with good conscience buy it, let them give reason for it, else not. And if every brooker would deal thus, their would not so many false knaves bring them such lavish of stolen goods, as they do, neither should their trade grow as it doth into hatred, and contempt.  Theod. 
You said before (except I be deceived) that if they know before they buy any wares, that the same is stolen, if they than buy them, they are accessary to the same goods so felonously stolen, & so are worthy of the same punishment, that the principals are worthy of, I pray you what punishment is inflicted upon accessaries in Dnalgne.  Amphil. 
Accessories are punishable by the laws of Dnalgne with the same punishment that the principals are to be punished withal (for so the law standeth) but in the execution thereof, we see the clean contrary practised. For when as a thief, or a felon stealeth any thing, he bringeth it to his receiver, who though he know it to be stolen, yet with alacrity admitteth it into his custody, and retaineth it, hereby making himself accessory, and guilty of the felony committed. And yet notwithstanding when execution is to be done for the same, the principal is (peradventure) hanged up, the other that is the accessory is not once spoken of, nor none can say black is his eye. But howsoever it be, I cannot be otherwise persuaded, but that the receivers, and accessories are a great deal more worthy of death (by the penal laws) than he who stealeth the thing itself whatsoever it be. Because if they had not any to receive their stolen goods they would not steal at all. And therefore are the receivers (in my simple opinion) rather the authors, and the principals (especially if they know before they receive it, that it is stolen) than they that commit the fact, and being the authors of the evil committed, they are to be punished rather than the perpetrators of the fact itself. But for want of due punishment to be executed as well upon the one as upon the other, we see grievous crimes, and flagitious facts without all remorse, or fear of God, daily committed. Good laws there are, both for the repressing of these, and all other enormities whatsoever, but the want of the due execution thereof, is the cause why all wickedness and mischief doth reign and rage's every where as it doth, God amend it if it be his good pleasure. And thus much briefly of the noble science of brokery.  Theod. 
What hospitality is there kept, or relief for the poor?  Amphil. 
Very small. For as for the poor tenants and commons, they are not able to maintain any hospitality, or to give any thing to the poor, their rents are so raised, & their fines so enhanced, and yet notwithstanding they minister (I am persuaded) more relief to the poor than the rich & wealthy do: more poor are fed at their doors than at the rich: more clothed at their hands than at the rich, & more lodged and harboured in their poor houses, than in the rich. But yet can I not deny but that the gentlemen, & others keep sumptuous houses, lusty ports, and great hospitality, but so as the poor hath the lest part thereof, or rather just nothing at all. If the poor come to their houses, their gates be shut against them, where they standing frost and snow, hail, wind or rain whatsoever, are forced to tarry two hours, 3.4. yea sometimes half a day, and then shall they have but the refuse, and the very scraps neither. And well if they have any thing too, in steed whereof they are sometimes sent to prison, clapped in irons, manacled, stocked, and what not. This is the alms that most men give.  Theod. 
Then it seemeth that the poor are simply provided for?  Amphil. 
They are so indeed, God amend it. And yet I am not so full of foolish pity that I would have all kind of beggars indifferently without any exception to be fed and nourished upon the sweat of other men's brows.  Theod. 
Do you make a difference of beggars then? Are there two sorts of them?  Amphil. 
Yea, there are two sorts. One sort is of stout, strong, lusty, courageous, and valiant beggars, which are able to work, and will not. These at no hand are not to be relieved (for qui non operatur non manducet, saith the apostle, He that will not work, let him not eat) but are to be compelled to work, and not to live upon other men's labours. For he that relieveth these, maintaineth them in their idleness, and taketh away the children's bred, and giveth it to dogs. These are as drone bees, that live upon the spoil of the poor bees that labour and toil to get their ●itting with the sweat of their faces. If such fellows as these will not work, but live upon begging, let them be punished and imprisoned till they be content to work. The other sort of beggars are they, that be old, aged, impotent, decrepit, or lame, sick, sore, or diseased, these I would wish should be looked unto: and these are they that every Christian man is bound in conscience to relieve.  Theod. 
What order would you have observed in these respects?  Amphil. 
The former sort of sturdy valiant beggars, which are able to work and will not, I would wish them to be compelled to work, or else not to have any relief given them. And if they would not work, to punish them, if that will not serve, to hang them up. But herein I would wish a proviso, that being content to work, they might have masters provided them, with reasonable wages, for many would feign work, and can get none, and than if they will not work, to Tyburn wish them. The other sort of beggars which are either halt, lame, impotent, decrepit, blind sick, sore, infirm, and diseased, or aged and the like, I would wish that they should be maintained every one in his own parish, at the costs and charges of the ●ame. And if the parish be not able to maintain so many, then that there should be collections & contributions made in other parishes to supply their want, and ●o the former poor people to be maintained thereupon. For want of which godly order, and constitution, there are infinite of the foresaid persons that die some in ditches, some in holes, some in caves, and dens, some in fields, some in one place, some in another, rather like dogs than christian people. For notwithstanding that they be never so impotent, blind, lame, sick, old, or aged, yet are they forced to walk the countries from place to place to seek their relief at every man's door, except they will starve or famish at home, such unmercifulness is in Dnalgne. Yea, in such troops do they flock, and in such swarms, do they flow, that you can lightly go no way, but you shall see numbers of them at every door, in every lane, and in every poor cave, and as though this were not extremity enough they drive them from city to city, from parish to parish, from town to town, from hundred to hundred, from shire to shire, and from country to country like flocks of sheep. Here they dare not tarry for this justice, nor there for that justice, here for this man, nor there for that man, without a licence or a passport, whereas a man would think their old age, their hoar hairs, their blindness, lameness, and other infirmities should be passports good enough for them to go abroad withal▪ if they cannot get relief at home. But if the former order that every parish should maintain their poor were taken, then should they neither need to go abroad, nor otherwise want their daily relief.  Theod. 
Are there no hospitals, spitals, la●ar houses, alms houses, nor the like, for the relief of these poor people?  Amphil. 
Yes there are some such in cities, towns, and some other places, wherein many poor are relieved, but not the hundred part of those that want. For the supply whereof would God there might be in every parish an alms house erected, that the poor (such as are poor indeed) might be maintained, helped▪ and relieved. For until the true poor indeed be better provided for, let them never think to please God. Is it not great pity when a man can pass no way almost neither city nor country, but shall have both halt, blind, lame, old aged, sick, sore & diseased hanging upon his sleeve, and craving of ●eléefe▪ Whereas if the former order were established, then should none at all need to go abroad, but all should have sufficient at home. The reformed churches beyond seas, and even the French, Dutch, & Italian churches in Dnalgne are worthy of great commendations herein, & shall rise up the day of judgement to our codemnation except we repent & amend our unmercifulness towards the poor. These good churches following the counsel of the almighty who biddeth that there be no beggar amongst us, suffer never a one of their countrymen, nor yet any other dwelling in their parish to beg or ask alms without his parish, nor yet in his parish neither, but by mutual contribution and collectio●s maintain them, & minister to their necessities in all things, Which thing GOD grant the churches of Dnalgne may once begin to practise amongst themselves, that God may be glorified, and the poor members of Christ jesus relieved and maintained.  Theod. 
Be there husbandmen there, & such others as manure and till the ground, for the further increase of fruits, to the maintenance of the commonwealth▪  Amphil. 
There are of such indeed good store and as excellent men in that kind of exercise, as any be upon the earth. They know exactly I warrant you, the times and seasons of the year, when every kind of grain is to be sowed, and what ground is best for every kind of corn. They are not ignorant also, how to culture & dress the same, and if it be barren what kind of dung is best to fatten the same again. They know the nature, the property, & quality of every soil, and what corn it will bring. They know also when the ground is to be tilled, when not, how long it will bring forth good corn, how long not, when it ought to rest, when not, with all things else incident to the same.  Theod. 
I think they have good farms, and tenements, that are able to furnish their ground in this sort, for otherwise they were not able to keep their oxen, their horses, their servants, and other necessaries, belonging thereto, have they not so?  Amphil. 
No truly have they not. For some have such fat farms, and tenements, as either will bring forth no corn at all (in a manner) or if it do very little, and that not without great cost bestowed upon it. Othersome have houses with no lands belonging to them at all, and yet notwithstanding shall pay a good round some for the same also. And no marvel, for landlords, and gentlemen take all the lands, and livelihood whereupon there poor tenants should live into their own hands, and suffer not the poor husbandmen to have so much ground as will find them corn for the maintenance of their poor families, nor which is more, scarcely to keep one cow, horse or sheep upon, for their continual relief. Or if they have any they shall pay ten times so much as it is worth, to their utter undoing for ever. But if landlords would consider that the earth is the Lords, and all that is therein, and that it is theirs, but only in title, interest, and property (having the sovereignty, or chiefty thereof) and the poors in use and possession, and if they would remember that the poor aught to live upon the earth as well as they, than would they not use such tyranny, such exactions, such pooling, and pilling and the like as they do without all compassion.  Theod 
There being such store of husbandmen, and the same so expert in their agriculture as your words import they be, it must needs follow, that there is great plenty of corn, and all kind of other grain, and the same very good cheap, is it not so?  Amphil. 
There is great store of corn, and all kind of grain, no nation under the sun like unto it, but as I told you before, thorough the insatiable greediness of a few covetous cormorants, who for their own private commodity, transport over seas whole mountains of corn, it is made sometimes very scarce. Otherwise there would be great store at all times. And whereas you say it is good cheap, it is nothing less, as every days success proveth true.  Amphil. 
How can that be, that there being such store of corn, yet should be dear also.  Amphil. 
I will tell you. It cometh to pass three manner of ways. First, for that landlord's rack there rends so extremely, and advance their fines so unreasonably, that the poor man is forced to sell every thing dear, otherwise he should not be able to pay his land lord his due, whereas if he had his fearme good cheap, he might afford to sell good cheap. The second cause is (as I have said) for that the same is carried and conveyed over Sea●. The third cause is, thorough a sort of ingrators, or forestallers, who intercept every thing before it come at the market, or else being come to the market, and having money at will, buy up either all, or the most part, and carrying it into their celles, and garners at home, keep it till time of the year that corn is scarce, and so consequently dear. And when there is want of it, than they sell it dear, and when there is plenty, than they make it dearer by buying it up in whole heaps as they do. Thus you see by this means, these hellish ingratours, and forestallers make corn and all things else dear, all times of the year, Now judge you what a horrible abuse is this for one man to buy up all things, and that not for any need or want in himself, but to sell it again, dearer than they bought it, thereby to enrich himself with the impoverishing of many a thousand.  Theod. 
Is there not punishment for this horrible abuse, for me think great inconveniences do follow it?  Amphil. 
There be great penalties, and forfeitures ordained, as well for the repressing of this, as of any other outrageous abuse, but they play with this as with all other good laws, they invent quirckes▪ and quiddities, shifts, and put-offs enough to blind the eyes of the magistrates, and to deliver themselves (trimly trimly) from the danger and penalty of the law. For they will say that they buy but for the necessary provision of their own families, and not to sell again. And then when they do sell it again, they will bear you in hand it was of their own tillage. Or if this way will not serve the turn, then procure they another man to buy it with their own money under his own name, and so to sell it again when he seethe time, but who hath the commodity, judge you. But if all these ways fail, then buy they it covertly, and sell it again as covertly, and thus they buy and sell their own souls for corruptible money, which in the last day shall bear witness against them, and consume them: yea as Saint james saith: The money which they have unjustly got with the polling and pilling of the poor, shall rise up in judgement against them, and the rust thereof shall eat and devour their flesh as it were a canker. But let these jolly fellows (as subtle and as politic as they would seem to be) take heed unto themselves and beware: for though they can blind men's eyes, and deceive their judgements, yet let them be sure, that they can not deceive the judgement of the Lord, but he that made the eyes shall surely see, and he who knoweth the secrets of all hearts, shall one day declare the same to their perpetual confusion except they repent.  Theod. 
What be these husbandmen, honest, plain dealing, and simple persons, and such as in whom, there is no abuse, or else fraudulent, deceitful, and crafty persons?  Amphil. 
They are for the most part very simple and plain men in outward appearance yea such as if you saw them, and heard them talk, you would think they had no gall, or that there were nothing in them in the world. But if you look into their daily exercises, practices, and deeds, you shall find them as crafty and subtle in their kind, as the devil is in his, if it be possible. For the simplest of them all, if he make a bargain with another, he will be sure to make it so as he himself may gain by it. And it is well too, if the other though never so wise, circumspect, or provident, be not utterly deceived (or to speak in plainer terms cozened at their hands) such subtlety, such policy, and such crafty conveyance they practise under the garment of simplicity. Yea truly it is grown to be almost their profession to deceive, defraud, and beguile their brethren, insomuch as they count him a wise man, a worldly fellow, and such a one as will live in the world that can not deceive, and beguile men in bargaining. This is there Columbina simplicitas, (Nay rather, Vulpina, et serpentina astutia) which Christ would have all his children to practise in all things all days of their life. But so far from this christian simplicity are many, that their whole life (almost) is nothing else, than a continual practice of fraud, and deceit, as for example. You shall have some that sending corn to the market to be sold, they will put good corn in the top or mouth of the bag, to seem fair to the eye, and in the bottom of the sack, very good also (that when it is powered forth of the same, it may yet seem exceeding good still, but in the midst shall be never a good corn, but such as is musty sprouted, and nought. Whereof can be made neither good bread nor drink, for man's body. I have known othersome, that having a barren cow, and being desirous to put her away have taken a calf from another milk cow, and so sold the former barren cow with her adulterate calf, for a melche cow, whereas she was nothing less. With infinite the like sleights, which for brevities sake I omit.  Theod. 
I perceive than it is good for a man to be wary that deals with these simple fools?  Amphil. 
It were good so indeed, else he may chance to cough himself a daw for his labour. For I tell you the fox for all his craft may go to school to these fellows, to learn the rudiments of deceit and craft. Such skilful Doctors are they herein. If they sell you a cow, an ox, a horse or a mare, they will set the price on him I warrant you, and with all will protest and take on wonderfully, that he is but this old, and that old, this yoongue, and that yoongue. And which is worst of all, though they know a hundred faults by them, yet will they not reveal any unto him that buyeth the same, which is a plain, and a manifest deceit before the LORD, and one day shall be answered for, I dare be their warrant.  Theod. 
Would you have every man to declare to the buyers the faults and imperfections, which they know to be in those things that they sell, then should he sell but a little?  Amphil. 
Every true christian ought to do so, or else beside that he doth not to others, as he would wish to be done to (for this is the chain wherewith every christian is bound to another▪) he also breaketh the cords of charity & committeth most horrible cozenage, and wilful presumptuous deceit before God, which is a fault punishable in the justice of God, with eternal death, in the lake that burneth with fire and brymestone for ever. And seeing we ought to do to others as we would wish to be done unto us, let the deceiver ask of himself when he goeth about to deceive, these questions. Would I myself be deceived? Would I be coosoned? Would I be undone and spoiled? Would I count him an honest man, or a good christian that would supplant me in bargaining? Oh no. No more ought I to do to others, that which I would not should be done to myself. Besides this, consider that the apostle saith, The Lord is the revenger of all such as deceive their brethren in bargaining. If they would fall into this or the like consideration I doubt not, but fraud, deceit, lying, dissimulation coosonage, & guile, would be abandoned and put to flight in short time which God grant.  Theod. 
Well, notwithstanding I cannot see how we could live without husbandmen any manner of way, could we?  Amphil. 
No truly. Neither king, prince, earl, duke, lord, knight, esquire, high nor low, rich nor poor, nor yet any potentate, power or principality upon the earth (how great a monarch soever) could live or continue without the use of husbandry and husbandmen. And therefore they are not only to be beloved of us, but also to be preferred and to be made much of amongst us, without whose industry and labour no man could live long upon the face of the earth. For this cause we read the use of husbandry to be commended unto us in sundry places of holy scripture, and which is more the kingdom of heaven many times to be compared and assimiled to the husbandman for divers purposes and respects. And when Adam our first parent was expulsed paradise he was by God himself enjoined to manure to dress and till the ground, whereby we may see both the antiquity, ancienty, and excellency of husbandry, even from the very beginning of all things. And therefore doubtless is it to be had in reverence and estimation of all men. But hereof enough.  Theod. 
Be there any Chandler's there as be in other places?  Amphil. 
Yea that there are enough I warrant you, and more than deal justly in every respect.  Theod. 
What do they sell for the most part?  Amphil. 
Almost all things, as namely butter, cheese, faggots, pots, pans, candles, and a thousand other trinkets beside.  Theod. 
What be the abuses which they commit I pray you?  Amphil. 
Abuses quoth you? They dare not commit any I trow. But seeing you would so feign know, I will give you an inkling of them. First they buy that butter, cheese, and other things, which is nought, because they may have it for a little money, and then sell it for very good, this many a poor prentice and other can tell to be true. Or if they buy that which is good, than they either sell it wonderful deer, or else keep it till it be passed the best, and yet utter it for as much and more than it cost them. Besides this that they keep their butter & cheese till it be musty and mould, yea till it smell that no man can eat it, they have also their false weights & counterfeit measures to deceive the poor people withal. And notwithstanding that they buy sometimes 2. or 3. faggots for a penny, yet will they not sell one be it never so little, under a penny, gaining above the one half in the other. And as for the stuff whereof they make their candles, I am ashamed to speak of it. For whereas they should make them of good liquor and sweet, they make them of all kind of kitchen stuff, & other stinking baggage, so that they shall waste & consume away like unto wax against the fire, and yet shall never burn clear, nor give good light, but run over, and about the candlestick too shamefully. And as for the wikes within them, they are of hurds, rope ends, & such other good stuff. Besides all this they have sleights to make the liquor of the candles always to remain soft, to the end it may waste & consume the faster, with legions of the like diuises, God be merciful unto us.  Theod. 
What say you of the barbers, and trimmers of men, are they so neat, and so fine fellows as they are said to be?  Amphil. 
There are no finer fellows under the sun, nor experter in their noble science of barbing than they be. And therefore in the fullness of their overflowing knowledge (oh ingenious heads, & worthy to be dignified with the diadem of folly and vain curiosity) they have invented such strange fashions and monstrous manners of cuttings, trimmings, shavings, and washings, that you would wonder to see. They have one manner of cut called the French cut, another the Spanish cut, one the Dutch cut, another the Italian, one the new cut, another the old, one of the bravado fashion, another of the mean fashion. One a gentlemans cut, another the common cut, one cut of the court, another of the country, wish infinite the like vanities, which I overpass? They have also other kinds of cuts innumerable, and therefore when you come to be trimmed they will ask you whether you will be cut to look terrible to your enemy, or amiable to your friend, grime & stern in countenance, or pleasant & demure (for they have divers kinds of cuts, for all these purposes or else they lie.) Then when they have done all their feats, it is a world to consider, how their mowcha●owes must be preserved and laid out, from one cheek to another, yea, almost from one ear to another, and turned up like two horns towards the forehead. Besides that, when they come to the cutting of the hair, what snipping & snapping of the dicers is there, what tricking, and trimming, what rubbing what scratching, what combing and clawing, what trickling & toying, and all to tawe out money you may be sure. And when they come to washing, oh how gingerly they behave themselves therein. For than shall your mouth be bossed with the lather, or foam that riseth of the balls (for they have their sweet balls wherewith all they use to wash) your eyes closed must be anointed therewith also. Then snap go the fingers, full bravely god wots. Thus this tragedy ended comes me warm clothes to wipe and dry him withal, next the ears must be picked, and closed together again artificially forsooth. The hair of the nostrils cut away, and every thing done in order comely to behold. The last action in this tragedy is the payment of money. And lest these cunning barbers might seem unconscionable in ask much for their pains, they are of such a shamefast modesty, as they will ask nothing at all, but standing to the courtesy and liberality of the giver, they will receive all that comes how much soever it be, not giving any again I warrant you: for take a barber with that fault, and strike off his head. No, no, such fellows are Rarae aves in terris, nigrisque similimi cygnis, Rare birds upon the earth, and as geason as black swans. You shall have also your orient perfumes for your nose, your fragrant waters for your face, wherewith you shall be all to besprinkled: your music again, and pleasant harmony shall sound in your ears, and all to tickle the same with vain delight. And in the end your cloak shall be brushed, and God be with you Gentleman.  Theod. 
All these curious conceits in my judgement are rather done for to allure and provoke the minds of men to be bountiful and liberal towards them, than for any good else, which they bring either to the body or health of man?  Amphil. 
True it is that you say, and therefore you must needs think they are masters of their science that can invent all these knacks to get money withal. But yet I must needs say (these nisities set apart) barbers are very necessary, for otherwise men should grow very ougglisom and deformed, and their hair would in process of time overgrowe their faces, rather like monsters, than comely sober christians. And if it be said that any man may cut off the hair one of another, I answer, they may so, but yet not in such comely, and decent manner as these barbers exercised therein can do, and beside they know that a decorum in every thing is to be observed. And therefore I cannot but marvel at the beastliness of some ruffians (for they are no sober christians) that will have their hair to grow over their faces like monsters, and savage people, nay rather like mad men than otherwise, hanging down over their shoulders, as women's hair doth: which indeed is an ornament to them, being given them as a sign of subjection, but in man, it is a shame and reproach as the Apostle proveth. And thus much of barbers, and their science.  Theod. 
Have you surgeons, and physicians there, as in other places, and are they skilful and expert in their mystery, and not only skilful, but also conscionable in their dealings, as well toward the poor as toward the rich?  Amphil. 
There are both surgeons and physicians good store. And as they be many, so are they very unconscionable in their doings, for as for both the one and the other so far from godliness and good conscience in all things are they, as if a poor man that hath not money to give them at their pleasure, stand in need of their help, they will either not come at him, or if they do, they will so handle him, as it were better for him to be hanged than to sustain the pains, that they will put him to. But for the most part, neither of them both will come at him, but rather contemn him, and reject him as a thing of nought, yea as much will they do for the devil himself, as for a poor man, if he have not money. And again as long as money runneth, they will apply gentle and easy potions, medicines, and salves, bearing their patient in hand that he shall recover without all doubt, with what disease malady, or sore soever he be infected, whereas in truth they can do nothing less. But Deficiente pecunia. Money wanting, they apply bitter potions, nipping medicines, gnawing corrosives, and pinching plaistures to grieve their patient withal, thereby to strain out what liquor of life (that is what money or goods) they are able to give. And thus they abuse their gifts to the dishonour of God, the hurt of their fellow brethren, and their own damnation except they repent.  Theod. 
Are surgeons and physicians then necessary in a common wealth, as you seem to infer?  Amphil. 
Solomon saith the Physician (by the which word he understandeth both the physician and the surgeon, because the one is cousin germane to the other) is to be honoured for necessity. And if for necessity then must it needs follow, that the same is most necessary in a common wealth. But as the good, learned, and discreet physicians and surgeons, are necessary, and may do much good, so the unlearned, and naughty (as the world is to full of them) may and do much hurt daily as experience teacheth.  Theod. 
You say truth. But are all indifferently suffered to practise the same noble mysteries of physic and surgery, without any choice or exception at all?  Amphil. 
There is to great liberty permitted herein. For now a days every man tag, and rag, of what insufficiency soever, is suffered to exercise the mystery of physic, and surgery, and to minister both the one, and the other, to the diseased, and infirmed persons, but to their woe you may be sure. Yea, you shall have some that know not a letter of the book (so far are they from being learned, or skilful in the tongues, as they ought to be, that should practise these mysteries) both men and women. young and old, that presuming upon experience forsooth (for that is their greatest skill) will arrogate great knowledge to themselves, and more than the learnedst doctor upon the earth will do. And yet notwithstanding can do in manner nothing at all. But if they chance at any time to do any good (as fort luscus capiat leporem sometime by chance a blind man may catch a hare) it is by mere chance, and not by any knowledge of theirs. And yet shall this exploit of theirs be sounded forth with a trumpet, which indeed may hardly be blown up, with an oaten pip●●or any praise it deserveth. This bringeth the laudable sciences of physic and surgery, into hatred, obloquy, & contempt, maketh it of no estimation in the world, and utterly discrediteth it amongst men. For when as any sick, infirmed, or diseased, either miscarieth under the hands of his physician, or surgeon, or else when the medicine, or salve worketh not his effect then fall they to accuse the science itself, and to reproach it altogether, whereas in truth the whole blame consisteth in the ignorance of the practitioner himself. Great pity it is therefore, that there is such liberty in permitting every one that lust to profane and to abuse these venerable sciences of physic and surgery as they do. For every man though he know not the first principles, grounds or rudiments of his science, the lineaments, dimensions, or compositions of man's body, the poors, arteries, temperament, or constitution, no nor yet so much as the natural complexion, quality, or disposition of the same, will yet notwithstanding take upon him the habit, the title, the name, and profession of a physician, or surgeon. This we see verified in a sort of vagarants, who run straggling (I will not say roguing) over the countries, and bear men in hand of great knowledge when as there is nothing less in them. By which kind of theft, (for this coosoning shift is no better) they rake in great sums of money, which when they have got, they leave their cures in the dust I warrant you, and betake them to their heels as to their best refuge. And thus be the noble sciences of physic, and surgery utterly reproached, the world deluded, and many a good man and woman brought to their ends, before their time.  Theod. 
If physic be good, would you not have every man to practise it that will, without restraint?  Amphil. 
Physic is good, and yet would I not have every ignorant dolt that knoweth not the use, nor benefit thereof to practise the same. For that maketh it to take so little effect, and so smally to be esteemed of as it it is now a days (for reformation whereof) I would wish that every ignorant dolt, & especially women that have as much knowledge in physic or surgery as hath jackeanapes, being but smatterers in the same noble sciences (nor yet all that) should be restrained from the public use thereof, yet not from private exercise thereof either for their own singular benefit, or any other of their friends (provided that they do it gratis) not making an occupation of it, but rather for desire to help then for lucre of gain. Than would I wish that the others who should exercise the use of Physic and Surgery should first be Graduates in either of the universities, and being graduates yet not to be admitted therefore, but first to be tried and examined as well for their knowledge, discretion, and sufficiency in their art, profession and calling, as also for their godliness, christian zeal, pure religion, compassion, and love to their brethren, and being found sufficient for the foresaid respects, to be admitted and licenced, under hand and seal authentic by those that be of authority. And if he abuse himself or his faculty, than out with him, let him be Officiperda, jacke out of office, make him a Quondam, and let him go to blow and cart, rather than to rob the poor (as many of them do) yea to murder and kill them without reprehension. And as I would wish none but godly, learned, and such as fear God to be admitted to the exercise and practise hereof, so I would wish, that either they might be allowed anual stipends, for their better succouring of the poor diseased, or else might be constrained to take less of their poor patients than they do. For now they ruffle it out in silckes, and velvets, with their men attending upon them, whereas many a poor man (GOD wots) smarteth for it. Yea, so unreasonable, and so unconcionable are they, as some of them will not set one foot out of his own doors, without twenty shillings, forty shillings, three pound, twenty nobles, ten pound, twenty pound, and some more some less. And having this importable fee, If they minister any thing to the party diseased, than beside, must they have twenty shillings, for that that stands them not in twenty pins, forty shillings, twenty nobles, for that that cost them not twenty pence, & so forward. This is a great wickedness, God be merciful unto us, and such as the Lord will one day revenge, if they prevent not his judgements by speedy repentance. Besides these abuses, there are othersome, that if they own evil will to any, man or woman being sick, or if they hope for any preferment by their deaths, will not make any conscience of it, to give them such medicines, such potions, and drinks, as will soon make a hand of them, and this shall be done invisible in a cloud. Under the pretence of physic forsooth, and if he die, why it was not the medicine that killed him (no it were Blasphemia in sanctos ruminare, blasphemy to think it of these holy fathers) but it was death that cruel tiger that spareth none. And to such corruption are they grown that for money I am persuaded they can make away with any whom they have access unto. Therefore I advise every man to be careful to whom he committeth the cure of his body. They are likewise in league with the apothecary's in whom there are great abuses also, aswell in compounding, and mixing of their elements, & simples together, as also in selling chalk for cheese, one thing for another, & the like, so as it is hard to get any thing of them that is right pure and good of itself, but druggie baggage, and such counterfeit stuff as is stark nought. But of them enough. Let us speak a word or two of a certain kind of curious people, and vainglorious, called astronomers, and astrologers, the corruptions and abuses of whom are inexplicable. This done we will make a final end at this time of speaking any further concerning the abuses, corruptions, and imperfections, of the temporalty till occasion of more matter her ca●ter shall be offered.  Theod. 
These names of astronomers, astrologers, prognosticators, and the like are so uncouth and strange to my ears, that I know not what to make of them. Wherefore I pray you show me as near as you can the meaning of them and what kind of merchants the professors thereof be?  Amphil 
The astronomers, astrologers, prognosticators (and all others of the same society, and brotherhood, by what name or title soever they be called) are a certain kind of curious fantastical and vainglorious fellows, who secreta dei temere remantes, Searching the secrets of God rashly, which he would have kept close from us, and only known to himself, take upon them & that upon these grounds (forsooth) namely the observations of times & seasons, the aspects and conjunctions of the signs and planets, with their occurrents, to presage, to divine, and prognosticate whai shall come or happen afterwards, as though they sat in God's lap, knew his secrets, & had the world and the disposement thereof in their own hands. It is an old saying, and very true. Quae supra nos, nihil ad nos, Those things that are above our reach, concern us not, and therefore we ought not to enter into the bowels & secrets of the Lord (for as the wise man saith Qui scrutatur abscondita dei, obruetu● gloria eius, he that searcheth out the hidden things of GOD, shall be overwhelmed with the glory of the same, but to content ourselves with so much as he hath revealed unto us in his sacred word, committing the event, the success, and disposement of all things else to his sacred Majesty, the GOD of all glory. For to them that go about, and labour so busily by speculations, by astronomy, astrology, and the like curious arts to judge of things to come, and think they can tell all things by the same (but Dum parturiunt montes nascetur ridiculus mus, whilst the mountains do travel a seely mouse will be brought forth) Christ our saviour saith, Non est vestrum nosse tempora, & momenta temporum, quae ipse pater in sua ipsius constituit potestate, It is not for you to know the times and seasons, which the Lord God hath reserved to himself. And how much our saviour Christ disliketh this vain curiosity, of astronomical, & astrological speculations, we may gather by that vehement reprehension, or commination in the 16. of Matthew, thundered out against the people of the jews, who were as it seemeth too much addicted to the same. Where he sharply rebuketh them, and calleth them dissembling hypocrites, in that they observed and marked with such serious attention and diligence, the elemental signs & tokens in the firmament, being in the mean time, ignorant of greater things, namely of the signs and tokens of the son of GOD Christ jesus, the true Messiah, and saviour of the world.  Theod. 
Upon what grounds, certainties, rules, and principles doth this curious science consist?  Amphil. 
It standeth upon nothing else, but mere conjectures, supposals, likelihods, guesses, probabilities, observations of times and seasons, conjunctions of signs, stars, and planets, with their aspects and occurrents, and the like, & not upon any certain ground, knowledge, or truth, either of the word of God. or of natural reason. But to argue the untruth and the uncertainty of this foolish curious science, we need not to go far for examples and arguments. For the contrariety that ever hath been in all ages amongst the very doctors and masters themselves, but most specially of late doth approve the same to be most fantastical, curious, vain, uncertain, and mere profane. For there being a marvelous strange conjunction (as they said) of two superior planets. So many as writ of the same, neither jumped together in one truth, nor yet agreed together either of the day, hour, or month, when it should be: but in all things showed themselves like themselves, that is plain contradictory one to another. Insomuch as they writ in defence of their errors, and confutation of the contrary, one against another shamefully to behold. By which more than presumptuous audacity, and rash boldness of these, they brought the world into a wonderful perplexity and cease, expecting either a wonderful alteration of states and kingdoms (as these foolish star tooters promised) or else a final consummation, and overthrow of all things. Or if not so, yet the strangest things should happen, that ever were heard or seen since the beginning of the world. Whereas God be thanked at the very hour, and moment when (as some of them set down) these wonders and portents should have happened, there was no alteration nor change of any thing seen or heard of, the element being as fair, as bright, as calm, and as pleasant, and every thing as silent, and in as perfect order and form, as ever they were since the beginning of the world. By all which appeareth the vanity, and uncertainty of their curious science. I wonder where these fellows sat, whether upon the earth, or in the firmament of heaven when they saw these conjunctions. Or with what eyes they could see that, that no man else could see. But peradventure they have Argus eyes, and can see all things, even those things that be not. I marvel whether they have dwelled in the region of the air, and who told them the names, the situation, the houses, aspects, and local places of the signs and planets, of the sun, moon, and stars, with the number thereof also, which indeed are innumerable. I wonder what spirit told them which planets were higher than other, and which lower than other, which be good, and which be evil, which be moist, and which be dry, which be cold, and which be hot, which be gentle and affable, and which be cruel and terrible, which give good fortune, and which give evil, which be good to▪ take journeys in hand, or to attempt any great thing, and which be nought, which be good for a man to take a wise in, that she may be amiable, and gentle, and which be contrary, which be dangerous to take diseases in, or to fall sick, and which be not, with infinite the like fooleries, which I overpass. Now from whence they have learned these things I cannot tell, but certain I am, that out of the book of GOD, they never fetched them, the same being in every point contrary unto them, and reproving, yea condemning to hell their vain curious searching of God's secrets, and the success of things by such fallible and uncertain accidents.  Theod. 
Me think this is the next way to withdraw men from GOD the Creator, to depend and hang upon creatures, is it not?  Amphil. 
It is the only way. For who hearing that the creatures as the sun, the moon, the stars, the signs & planets, do give both good things and evil, blessing and cursing, good success, and evil success, yea, life and death, at their pleasure (as these brainesick fools hold they do) and that they rule, govern, and dispose all things whatsoever, yea both the bodies & souls of man (for so some shame not to say) who hearing this I say, would not fall from God, and worship the creatures, that give such blessings unto man? What can be a nearer way to withdraw the people not only from God, but also to hale them to idolatry, and wholly to depend upon creatures as the heathen do to their eternal damnation for ever. But say they, though we give authority, great power, great rule and government to the treatures, yet we give unto God the chiefest stroke and the chiefest rule in all things, all other creatures being but the instrumental, or secondary causes, or (that I may speak plainly) as it were his deputies, substitutes, or instruments whereby he ruleth and worketh all things. Is this any thing else, than to say with certain heretics, that though God made all things, yet he ruleth them not, nor hath no care over them, but hath committed the rule and government of them to his creatures. Then which what blasphemy can be greater? is not this a flat denial of the providence of God, which scripture so much setteth forth, and commendeth unto us? Shall we think that God made all things, and now as one weary of his work, committeth the government of them to other creatures? Saith not our Saviour Christ Pater et ego operamur, my father worketh, and I work? Meaning thereby that as he wrought in creating of all things, so he worketh still in ruling them by his power, governeing them by his wisdom, and preserving them by his providence, and will do to the end of the world. But when they have proved that he hath committed the rule and government of his creatures, to his creatures, than I will say as they say. In the mean time I say & hold that it derogateth greatly from the glory and majesty of God, to say or affirm that creatures have the government of all things committed unto them. For if there should be many kings, princes and rulers in any one realm or country, must not the dominion and rule of the chief prince or regent be lesser, than if he ruled, and governed alone? Woe were us, if we were at the rule and government of creatures, but blessed be our God, who as he knoweth our frailty (having therefore compassion of our infirmities) so he ruleth and governeth all things, whether in heaven, earth, hell, or else wheresoever according to the good pleasure of his will. In the 1. and 2. chapters of Genesis, besides infinite the like places of holy scriptures, we read that the sun, the moon, the stars, with all creatures else were created & made for the use and commodity of man, being made subject to him, & he constitute lord over them. & yet notwithstanding are they become now his lords, and he their subject, vassal, and bondslave? This is preposterous gear, when God's ordinance is turned topsy-turvy, upside down. It is time these fantastical fellows were looked to in time, that will go about to disthronize the mighty God jehova of his regal throne of majesty and glory, making an Officiperda of him, a jack out of office, & to pull him (as it were) E caelis, Out of the heavens, down to the earth, giving him no power nor authority at all.  Theod. 
Have the signs and planets than no power nor authority at all upon things on the earth?  Amphil. 
Yes they have their power, their operation, force, strength and effect in those things whereto GOD hath created them, as namely in the growing, increasing, cherishing, fostering, renewing, comforting & reviving of all natural things, And also they have their influence & operation in man's body, for letting of blood, receiving of purgations, & the like. But to say that they work these effects of their own proper force & strength, or that they rule or dispose the spirits & souls of man, is utterly false & at no hand true. And yet notwithstanding is far infatuat are these busy heeded astronomers, & curious searching astrologers, that they attribute every part of man's body to one particular sign & planet, affirming that part of the body to be ruled by that sign, or planet. And therefore to Aries they have assigned the government of the head & face. To Tau. the neck and throat. To Gem. the shoulders, the arms & the hands? To Leo the heart and back. To Can. the breast, stomach, & lungs. To Lib. the rains and loins. To Uir. the guts & belly. To Scor. the prime parts & bladder. To Sag. the thighs. To Cape. the knees. To Aqu. the legs. To Pisc. the feet. And thus have they & do bear the world in hand that the whole body of man both Intern & extern, within & without, is ruled and governed by the xii. signs, by stars, and planets & not by God only. For the confirmation of which feigned untruth, they pretend the xii. months in the year to be ruled & governed by the xi●. signs in the element, and the seven days in the week to be ruled by the seven planets also. Besides this they have their particular hours, times, and seasons, wherein they chief work their effects, and have greatest strength. So that by their reasons, no month in the year, nor day in the week, nor no hour in the day nor night, but it is ruled and governed by the influence and constellation of the stars and planets, and nothing is effected or brought to pass, but what they will, and intend.  Theod. 
Are the signs and planets living creatures and reasonable, or insensible creatures, and things without life?  Amphil. 
They are no living or reasonable creatures, it is without all controversy, but merely insensible, and without life. And being without life and reason, how is it possible that they should bring life or death (as these fellows hold) sickness or health, prosperity or adversity, heat or cold, fair weather or foul, beauty or deformity, long life or short, or any thing else? And if they be not able to give these things, how much less able are they then to govern, rule, and dispose all thing in heaven, earth, the air, or else wheresoever, so overthrow monarchies, kingdoms, nations, countries, and people, and finally to work allthings after their own desire and will? Will they have dumb and unreasonable creatures to rule the reasonable? If that were true, why should God be praised either for his mercy, or feared for his justice and judgement, and not rather the planets, signs, and stars; which work all in all in all creatures? If blessing come by the influence of stars and planets, then let men praise them and not God for the same. And if curses proceed from the stars, let them be feared for them. Briefly if life and death, and all things else come by the force of the elemental creatures, and celestial bodies, then let them be honoured with divine worship. If these effects issued from creatures. then why should the homicide, the murderer, adulterer, or wicked person be punished, whereas he might say, it was not I, it was Planetarum iniuria, The force of the planets that compelled me to sin? Or why should the godly man be praised for doing well, whereas he is enforced thereto, by the stars and planets? In Summa, why should not planets and scarces be adored and worshipped as gods, if they could work these effects? They that attribute thus much to the stars, not only rob the majesty of God of his honour, but also strenhthen the hands of the heathen, pagans, infidels, and idolatrous people, to persevere in their cursed idolatie still. Nay do they not rather shake hands with them, that as they worship the son, the moon, the stars, fire, water, and other creatures, for their God, so do these worship the same, though not for their chief Gods, yet for their second gods, whereby they commit most filthy idolatry and are guilty of most heinous transgression. Indeed I confess they have effects and operations, but yet are they not the efficent causes of any thing either good or bad. Otherwise than thus, that it pleaseth the majesty of God to work by them, as by his instruments whatsoever is his good will and pleasure, and not after any other sort.  Theoe. 
I have heard of some of these astronomers that would take upon them to tell a man's fortune, only by their constellation forsooth is it possible suppose you?  Amphil. 
No at no hand. For if it were so, that all things were and man himself governed, and ruled by the stars alone (as who is so forsaken of God to believe it?) And that they knew the minds, the purposes, the intents, the inclination, the disposition & qualities of every star, then might it be (peradventure) true, that they might tell the fortune, and destiny of any man▪ But otherwise they can tell as much as a horse, I would feign learn of these star gaisers, who teach that man is drawn to good or evil by the constellations, and influence of stars, whether all the people that were ever borne since the beginning of the world, or shall be borne to the end of the same, were all borne under one planet or star? For they had all one fortune, all sinned in Adam, & all were in the justice of God condemned to everlasting fire. I would know also whether all the Sodomites and Gomorreans being consumed with fire, & brimstone from heaven were borne all under one star or planet? For they had all one destiny, and all one end. Whether all the whole world in the days of Noah, was borne under one, and the same star, or planet, for they had all one destiny, being overwhelmed with an universal deluge. Whether the whole host of Core, Dathan, and Abiram, were borne all under one star, or planet, who had all one judgement one destiny, and one kind of death. Whether all the host of Pharaoh were borne under one, and the same star, and planet, who all sustained one kind of death, and had all one destiny. Whether Esau, and Jacob were not borne both in a moment, and both at one birth, and yet had they contrary natures, qualities, dispositions and ends. Finally I would learn of them, whither none that ever lived since the first beginninning of the world, nor any that shall be borne to the end of the same, hath not, or may not be borne in the same hour, and under the same planet, & constellation, that Christ jesus was borne in. If they say there have not been any borne in the same hour that Christ jesus was borne in, common reason, and daily experience would disprove them, for there is not one minute of an hour wherein there are not infinite children borne into the world. And if they say that there are that ha●e been borne in the same hour, and under the same star, and planet, than must it needs follow (if man should necessarily be ruled, governed, disposed & affected, according to the natural disposition, and inclination of the planets & stars) that he that hath been is or shall be, borne in the same hour, and under the same planet or star that Christ jesus was borne under, should be as good & as perfect in every respect, as Christ jesus himself, and so should we have had many Christ's before this time. But God bless all his children from once thinking of any such impiety, and blasphemy. By all which reasons and arguments it appeareth manifestly that man is nothing less, than ruled, governed, or destined, after the inclination, or influence of stars or planets, but only by the living God, who doth whatsoever pleaseth him in heaven & in earth. This being so, twice unhappy be those parents that think any month, day or hour infortunate for their children to be borne in, or that some be more fortunate and happy than othersome. And thrice cursed be those wicked devils, that taught them those lessons. What? Do they think that the Lord is a sleep those hours, or being wake hath no power to rule? Hath he not made all things pure and good? Then cannot the good creatures of God make us evil, or incline us to sin. But it is the malice of the devil, the corruption of our nature, and the wickedness of our own hearts, that draweth us to evil, and so to shameful destinies, and infamous ends, and not the stars, or planets. Whereof if we were truly persuaded, we would leave of when we come to any shameful end, to say? Oh, I was borne to it, it was my destonie, and I cannot tell what: whereas in truth we were borne to no such ends. But rather to glorify our heavenly father by integrity of life & godliness of conversation, whilst we live upon the face of the earth. Certain it is that God by his providence, & prescience, doth foresee that such a man through his wickedness shall come to such an end, yet did not the Lord foreordeine, or foreappoint him to the same, but rather dehorteth him from committing that wickedness, which may purchase such an end. Wherefore to conclude. Seing it is sin that bringeth man and woman to shameful ends, and neither fate, destonie, birthstar, sign, or planet, constellation, nor any thing else whatsoever, let every one endeavour himself to serve his GOD truly, in singleness, and pureness of heart, and himself to live well and uprightly. Walking in the laws, and commandments of the Lord, and I warrant him for ever coming to any evil end or destiny. That God whom he hath served, will keep him as he kept Sidrach, Misaac, and Abednago, from the rage of the fire, Susanna from the stake, Daniel, from the chaws of the greedy lions, & many others that served him in fear.  Theod. 
I have head some that would take upon them to tell a man whither he should be poor or rich, a servant, or a lord, a thief or a true man, cruel or gentle, and what kind of trades he should have prosperous success in, how should they do this?  Amphil. 
I will tell you how they pretend to do it. There are (as they say) certain signs in the element (but yet I marvel what Apollo told them so, when they were there, and saw them, or how they knew the shape, and prooortion of them) as Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Uirgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricornus, and Pisces, with their planets, and aspects, as Sol, Luna, Mars Mercury, jupiter, Venus, and Saturn. Now say they, he that is borne under Aries, (which is a sign in the Nusquam region, Like to a ram, or sheep upon earth) shall be a rich man and too too wealthy. And why so? Mark their drunken reason. Forsooth because the rame is a fruitful beast upon earth, and yieldeth to his master two or three fleeces a year. Again he that is borne under Taurus (which is a sign (say these liars) in the element like unto a bull, upon earth) now si● he that is born under him, shall be poor, & a bondslave all his days. And why so? Marry say they because the bull on earth is a beast used to the yoke, and to much slavery & drudgery. He that is borne under Leo, (which is a sign quoth these jugglers like to a lion) shall be strong, courageous & feared, of all men, & shallbe lord & ruler over many. And why so? Because the lion is a strong & mighty beast, & is lord & king over all other beasts. He that is borne under Scorpio, shallbe a murderer, a robber, a thief, and a wicked person. Why so? Forsooth because the Scorpion, is a serpent full of poison, & malice upon earth. He that is borne under Gemini shall be rich, and have many children, because Gemini is a sign of two twins. He that is borne under Uirgo shall be beloved of women, shall be amiable, fair, gentle, and I cannot tell what, because maids are so affected. He that is borne under Cancer, shall be crabbed and angry, because the crab fish is so inclined. He that is borne under Libra, shall be fortunate in merchandise, in weights and measures, because Libra is a sign of a pair of balance. He that is borne under Sagittarius, shall be a good shooter, because Sagittarius is a sign like to a shooter. He that is borne under Capricornus shall be a slovenly, ill favoured, and unclean fellow, because the goat is a beast filthy stinking, and unclean. He that is borne under Aquarius and Pisces shall be fortunate by water, because watermen haunt the waters, and fishes swim in the same. These be cupstantiall reasons, and well seasoned arguments, and as strong to prove their purpose, as a castle of paper to resist the enemy. Thus you may see they have no other reasons, than to heap one lie upon another. As first that these signs and planets in the heavens are like to earthly creatures, then that their natures, and qualities are known by the natures and qualities of earthly creatures. jesus God what cunning fellows are these, that can know the nature of heavenly bodies, and celestial creatures, by these terrestrial bodies, and earthly creatures? These are profound fellows indeed, and by all likelihood, have dwelled long in the clouds that are so perfect in every thing there. and can judge of future accidents with such singular dexterity. By this time I think they are ashamed of their profession, therefore I need to say no more of them, till further occasion be offered, beseeching the Lord God to give them grace to search for the truth of the word of God, letting all such curious searchings of God's secrets alone to God, who only knoweth all secrets whatsoever.  Theod. 
If you condemn astronomy, and astrology altogether, as you seem to do, than it followeth that you condemn prognosticators, and such as make almanacs for every year, do you so?  Amphil. 
I neither condemn astronomy nor astrology, nor yet the makers of prognostications, or almanacs for the year. But I condemn the abuse in them both, and wish they were reduced to the same perfection that they ought, and to be used to the same ends and purposes which they were ordained for. The sun, the moon, the stars, and the celestial bodies whatsoever, created by the Lord not only to fructify and increase the earth by their influence, but also to shine and give light to man in this life, and to divide the light from darkness, the day from the night, winter from summer, and to distinguish one season and time from another. Now how much may make or conduce to the knowledge hereof, so much I doubt not is very tolerable, and may be used. But when we go about to enter into God's secrets, and to divine of things to come, by conjectures, and guesses, then make we the same wicked, and unlawful. Therefore prognosticators are herein much to be blamed, for that they take upon them to foreshow what things shall be plenty, and what scarce, what dear, what good cheap. When shallbe fair weather, when foul, and the like, whereas indeed the knowledge of these things are hid in the secrets of GOD, and are beyond their reach, therefore ought they not to meddle with them. But if they would keep them within their compass, as namely to show the times and seasons of the year, festivals, vigils, to distinguish winter from sommner, spring from harvest, the change of the move, the fall of every day, the eclipses, epacts, dominical letter, golden number, circle of the sun, leap year, and other the like necessary points, than were their profession laudable, and greatly for the commodity of the commonwealth. And thus much with their patience be it spoken briefly hereof.  
Here end the abuses of the Temporalty.   

THE CORRUPTIONS AND ABUSES OF THE SPIRITVALTIE.  Theodorus. 
Having now spoken sufficiently of the corruptions and abuses of the temporalty, if I might be so bold, I would request you somewhat to say concerning the corruptions and abuses of the spirituality, or (as some call it) of the ecclesiastical hierarchy. For I am fully persuaded that the one being so corrupt, the other can hardly be without blemish.  Amphil. 
I am very loath to enter into that field, the view whereof offereth such store of matter to entreat of, as if I should enter the same, I should rather not know where to end, then where to begin. Besides, you know the old proverb, Non bonum est ludere cum sanctis, It is not good to meddle with these holy ones, for fear of thunderbolts, to ensue. But for that he is not only a false prophet, and a traitor to the truth, that teacheth false doctrine, but as well he that knoweth the truth, and either for fear of death, or desire of life, will not express the same to the world. And for that, not only the author of any evil or mischief is guilty of offence before God. But also he that might by discovery thereof prevent the same, and yet either will not, or for fear of death dares not. And for that as the old proverb saith Qui ●acet consentire videtur, he that concealeth the truth, seemeth to consent to errors, for these and the like causes, I will lay down unto you some such corruptions and abuses, as seem to be inormous, and stand in need of reformation, omitting in the mean time to speak particularly of all (for that they be innumerable) until I see how these few will be brouked of them. For it is a point of good physic you know, to see how the former meat received into the stomach, will be digested, and concocted, before we receive any more into the same.  Theod. 
You say very well. Give me leave then (by your patience) to ask you such questions, as I think convenient for my further instruction, that by your good means I knowing the truth, may praise God in you, and also have just occasion to give you thanks for the same.  Theod. 
Ask what you think good in God's ●ame, and I will do the best that I can, to resolve you in any thing that you shall demand.  Theod. 
Then this shall be my first demand. Be the churches, congregations, & assemblies there distincted into particulars, as into parishes and precincts, one exempt from another, or are they dispersed here and there abroad, without any order, exemption, or limitation of place at all?  Amphil. 
Every particular church, congregation, assembly, or conventicle is divided one from another, and distincted into parishes, and precincts, which several precincts and parishes are so circum●ired and limited about with bounds and marks, as every one is known of what parish he is, and under whose charge he liveth. So that every shepherd knoweth his flock, every pastor his sheep. And against every flock knoweth his shepherd, and every sheep his pastor very orderly, and well in my simple judgement.  Theod. 
Do you allow then of this partition of churches, and of one particular congregation from another?  Amphil. 
Yea truly. It is not amiss, but a very good order, for thereby every pastor doth know his own flock, every shepherd his own sheep, which without this division could not be. Besides that we read that even in the apostles days (who writ to particular churches themselves, as to the Rom. Corint. Thes. Phil, etc.) in the days of Christ, & in the times of the prophets before Christ, churches, assemblies, and congregations were ever distincted one from another, & divided into several flocks companies, and charges. So that although they had not the name of this word parish amongst them, yet had the thing meant thereby in effect.  Theod. 
Then it followeth by your reason, that there are infinite churches in Dnalgne, and I have learned out of the book of God, that there is but one true church, and faithful spouse of Christ upon the earth. How reconcile you these two places?  Amphil. 
Very well. For although there be infinite particular churches, congregations and assemblies in the world, yet do they all make but one true church of God, which being divided in time and place, is notwithstanding one church before God, being members of the mystical body of Christ jesus, & fellow members one of another, so as they can never be divided neither from themselves, nor from their head Christ.  Theod. 
Who do you constitute the head of the universal church of Christ upon earth, Christ jesus, the pope, or the prince?  Amphil. 
Christ jesus, whose the body is, must needs ●e, & is the only true head of the universal church. Then next under him every christian prince in his kingdom. And as for the pope he is head over the malignant church, the church of the devil, and not of Christ jesus. No he is so far from being head over the universal church of Christ, that he is no true member of the same, but rather the child of perdition, the first borne of satan, a devil incarnate, and that man of sin (even Antichrist himself) that must be destroyed with the breath of God's mouth.  Theod. 
By whom be these particular churches and congregations governed and ruled?  Amphil. 
By bishops, pastors, and other inferior officers.  Theod. 
Do you shut out the prince than front governing the church?  Amphil. 
No God forbidden. For take aways Brachium seculare, The lawful power, and government of the temporal magistrate from the regiment of the church, and overthrow the church altogether. And yet notwithstanding the necessity hereof, the dooting anabaptists and brainsick papists have most devilishly denied the same. The anabaptists deny (most absurdly) the authority of the magistrate altogether. The papists seeing themselves convinced by the manifest word of GOD deny not their authority absolutely, but that their authority extendeth to the government of the church, forsooth they utterly deny, hereby exempting themselves, and plucking away their necks from under the yoke of christian obedience due unto migistrates, contrary to the express word of our saviour Christ, and his apostles who saith Omnis anima subdita sit potestatibus supereminentibus? Let every soul be subject to the higher powers, for there is no power but of God. And therefore they are to be obeyed as the ministers of God of all whatsoever.  Theod. 
Well than I gather thus much that every king prince, or potentate is supreme head next under God, over the church of GOD dispersed through his kingdoms, and dominions, is not this true?  Amphil 
Very true. And therefore that antichrist of Rome, hath played the traitor a long while, both to Christ jesus and all christian kings, in arrogating and usurping to be supreme head over all the world. Whereas indeed he being a greasy priest, & smeared prelate, hath no more authority than other oiled shavelings have, nor so much neither, and yet that authority is but over the maligant church of antichrist, and not of Christ jesus. I beseech the Lord therefore to break of that power, to grind in pieces that stumbling block of offence and to wipe off the heads of that monstrous hidra, so as never any more may grow thereof again.  Theod. 
Seeing you say that every prince is supreme head over the church of God within his dominions, what authority therefore assign you to the prince to execute in the church.  Amphil. 
It is the office and duty of a prince not only to see elected, sent forth, & called, good, able, & sufficient pastors, for the instruction of the church, but also to see that good orders, constitutions & rites be established, and duly performed, that the word be preached, the sacraments truly ministered, excommunication, discipline and ecclesiastical censures orderly executed to the honour of God, and benefit of his church. But if it be said that these things are to be executed of the ecclesiastical persons only. I answer true it is, but if the ecclesiastical magistrate be negligent, secure, slothful, and careless about the execution hereof (as who seethe not some be) than aught the prince to show his authority in commanding and enjoining them to do their office. Besides this it is the office of the prince to see all kind of sin, as well in the church men themselves, as in all others of the church severely punished. And though I grant the prince to have the sovereignty and primacy over the church of GOD, within his dominions, yet my meaning is not, that it is lawful for the prince to preach the word, to minister the sacraments, or to execute the sentence of excommunication, and other ecclesiastical discipline and censures of the church, but (as before) to see them done of them, to whom it appertaineth. For saith the apostle nemo sumat sibi, honorem nisi qui legittime, vocatus fuerit ut fuit Aaron. And again, unusquisque in ea vocatione, qua vocatus est maneat apud deum? But in times past the papists bore the world in hand, that no temporal power whatsoever could nor ought not to meddle with the clergy, and therefore made they vassals of most christian Princes. Yea that pernicious antichrist of Rome, in those days of ignorance hath not been ashamed to make Kings, Queens, Emperors, Dukes, Lords, and all other how honourable or noble soever, his lackeys, his pages, his horse-keepers, and compelled them to hold his stirups, to lead his horse, and to prostrate themselves before him, whilst he trod upon their necks. But God be praised, this great antichrist is discovered to all the world, and his shame so laid open, as every child justly laugheth him to scorn.  Theod. 
You said before that the churches there were governed by bishops, and pastors, how by them?  Amphil. 
The bishops are grave, ancient, and fatherly men, of great gravity, learning, and judgement (for the most part) constituted by the Prince over a whole country, or province, which they call their diocese. These grave father's having authority above all other of the ministery, in their diocese, do substitute under them in every particular church a minister, or ministers according to the necessity of the same. And thus doth every bishop in his own diocese thorough out the whole realm. So that no church how small soever, but it hath the truth of God's word, and of his sacraments truly delivered unto it.  Theod. 
Are those preaching prelate's that the bishops do place in every congregation or else reading ministers?  Amphil. 
It were to be wished that all were preaching prelate's, and not reading ministers only, if it could be brought to pass, but though all be not preachers, yet the most part be, God be praised therefore.  Theod. 
Be any readers only, and not preachers, that is a great abuse. For I am persuaded that he that cannot preach, ought not to supply a place in the church of God to read only, how say you?  Amphil. 
It is no good reason to say because all aught to be preachers, that therefore readers are not necessary. But indeed I am of this judgement with you, that whoso can but read only, and neither is able to interpret, preach, expound, nor explain the scriptures, nor yet to refel and convince the adversary, nor to deliver the true sense and meaning of the scriptures, ought not to occupy a place in the church of God, as the pastor thereof. For God commandeth that the pastors be learned, saying: Labia sacerdotum custodiant voritatem, & ediscant populi verbum dei ex ore eorum, Let the lips of the priests preserve knowledge, and let the people learn the truth out of their mouths. And therefore those that have not this dexterity in handling the word of God, they are not sent of God, neither are they Christ's vicegerents or pastors to instruct his flock. To such the Lord saith: They rule, but not by me, they run, but I sent them not, they cry thus saith the Lord, whereas he never spoke it. These are those will shepherds, and dumb dogs, of whom speaketh the prophet, that are not able to bark against sin. And therefore I beseech the Lord to remove them, and place able and sufficient pastors over his church, that GOD may be glorified, and the church edified in the truth.  Theod. 
Bare reading I must needs say is bare feeding, but what then? Better it is to have bare feeding than none at all.  Amphil. 
Very true. And therefore are not they more scrupulous than they ought, more curious than needs, and more precise than wise, that because they cannot have preaching in every church, do therefore contemn reeding, as not necessary? This is as though a man should despise mean fare, because he cannot come by better, whereas I think it is better to have mean fare than none at all, or as though a man because he cannot come by the carnel at the first, will therefore ca● away both the nut and the carnel. It were good (as saith the apostle) that all could prophesy, that is, that all could preach, and expound the truth, but because that all have not the gift, is therefore reading nought? And therefore a sort of novatians lately sprung up, have greatly faulted herein, in that they hold that no reading ministers only ought to be permitted in the church of God, as though (as I say) because a man can not have dainty fare, therefore it is good to have none at all. But to be plain, as I will not defend a dumb reading ministery only, so I will not condemn it for necessities sake, when otherwise every place cannot be sufficiently furnished at the first with good and sufficient men as it ought.  Theod. 
But it is thought that there are enough able men in the universities, and elsewhere to furnish every particular church with a preaching minister?  Amphil. 
Truly I think there are so, if they were sought for & preferred: but alas those that are learned indeed they are not sought for nor promoted, but the unlearned for the most part, sometimes by friendship, sometime by money (for they pay well for their orders. I hear say) and sometimes by gifts (I dare not say bribes) are intruded. This maketh many a good scholar to languish, and discourageth not a few from going to their books. Whereby learning greatly decayeth, and barbarism I fear me will overflow the realm if speedy remedy be not had herein.  Theod. 
As far as I can gather by your speeches, there is both a reading and a preaching ministery, whether do you prefer before the other.  Amphil. 
I prefer the preaching ministery before a reading ministery only: and yet the reading ministery if the other can not be had, is not therefore evil, or not necessary.  Theod. 
But tell me this. If there might a preaching ministery be gotten ought not the reading ministery to give place to the same?  Amphil. 
Yea, doubtless. And therefore the bishops ought to seek for the learned sort, and as it were to sue and make instance to them, and finding them worthy as well for their life, as doctrine to call them lawfully according to the prescript● God's word, & so to send them forth into the ●●rds harvest. And where the foresaid dumb ministery is, to displace the same, and place the other. By this means the word of God should flourish, ignorance (manger the head of satan) be abandoned, the church edified, and many a one encouraged to go to their books, whereas now they practise nothing less, and all by reason that by their learning they have no promotion nor preferment at all.  Theod. 
Do these preaching ministers preach only in their own cures, flocks and charges, or else indifferently abroad else where?  Amphil. 
They preach for the most part in their own charges, and cures whereover the holy Ghost hath made them overseers, and for which they shall render a dreadful account at the day of iudgemennt, if they do not their duty, diligently as God hath commanded. But though they preach most commonly in their own cures, yet do they sometimes help their fellow brethren to break the bread of life to their charges also. Wherein me think they do not amiss. For if a watch man appointed by a whole city, or town to give warning when the enemy cometh, seeing an other city, or town to be in danger, giveth sufficient warning to his own city, and goeth and warneth the other city also, and so by this means delivereth them both, I say, that in so doing, he doth well, and according to charity. And yet notwithstanding divers new phangled fellows sprung up of late, as the Brownists, and there adherents, have spoken very blasphemously hereof, teaching in their railing pamphletes, that those who are lecturers or preach else where than in their own cures, are accursed before god. Than the which, what can be more absurdly, or untruly spoken? For if they grant (as they cannot deny) that the word of God is good, then cannot the declaration of that which is good in one place be hurtful in another. And read we not that the apostles themselves went from place to place, preaching the word to every congregation? Christ jesus did the same, & also taught us, that he came not to preach to one city only, but to many?  Theod. 
Do the reading ministers only continue and read altogether in their own charges or not?  Amphil. 
The reading ministers after they be hired of the parishes (for they are mercenaries) they read commonly in their own charges, and cures, except (which is a horrible abuse) that they have two or three cures to serve all upon one day, and peradventure two or three miles distant, one from another. Which maketh them to gallop it over as fast as they can, and to chop it up with all possible expedition, though none understand them, and as few be edified by them.  Theod. 
Be these reading ministers well provided for, so as they want nothing, or not?  Amphil. 
No truly. For if the other preaching ministers be not well provided for (as in truth they be not) then how can the other be well maintained? And therefore they have some of them ten pound a year (which is the most) some eight pound, some six pound, some five pound, some four pound, some forty shillings, yea and table themselves also of the same. And sometimes failing of this too, they run roguing like vagarents up & down the countries like masterless men, to seek their maintenance. Whereby some fall to one mischief, some to another, to the great slander of the Gospel of jesus Christ, and scandal of the godly. And yet part of these reading master's be too well provided for, for some of them have two or three, yea four or five benefices apiece, being resident but at one of them at once, and peradventure at never a one, but roist it out elsewhere, purchasing a dispensation for their discontinuance, and then may no man say: Domine cur ita facis? Sir why do you so? For he hath plenary power and authority granted him so to do.  Theod. 
That is an horrible abuse that one man should have two or three, or half a dozen benefices apiece as some have, may any man have so many livings at one time by the law of God, and good conscience?  Amphil. 
As it is not lawful for any man to have or enjoy two wives at once, so is it not lawful for any man how excellent soever to have more benefices, more flocks, cures, or charges in his hands than one at once. Nay I am fully persuaded that it is more tolerable (and yet it is a damnable thing) for a man to have two wives or more, than for a man to have two benefices at once or more. For by possibility a man might discharge the duty of a good husband to two or three wives (yet to have more than one is the breach of God's commandments) but no man though he were as learned as Saint Paul, or the apostles themselves to whom were given supernatural and extraordinary gifts and graces, is able sufficiently to discharge his duty in the instruction of one church, or congregation, much less of three or four or half a dozen as some have. And as one father cannot be many fathers, one pastor many pastors, nor one man diverse men, so one shepherd or pastor cannot, nor ought not to have divers charges, and flocks at once. Is it possible for any shepherd though he were never so cunning a man, to keep two or three flocks or more at once, and so feed them well and in due season doing the duty of a good shepherd in every respect, they being distant from him, ten, twenty, forty, sixty, an hundred. two hundred, or three hundred miles? Much less is there any man able to discharge the duty of a good pastor over so many flock●, churches, and congregations so far distant in place, whereas the simplest flock that is, re●●●reth a whole, and perfect man, & not a piece of a man. Therefore I advise all benefice mongers, y● have more charges than one, to take heed to themselves, and to leave them in time, for the blood of all those within their cures, or charges, that die ghostly, for want of the truth of God's word preached unto them, shall be powered upon their their heads, at the day of judgement, and be required at their hands.  Theod. 
If they have so many benefices a piece, and some so far distant from another, than it is not possible that they can be resident upon them all at once. But the matter is in dispute, whether they may not as well be absent, or present, what is your judgement of that?  Amphil. 
To doubt whether the pastor ought to be resident with his flock, is to doubt whether the soul should be in the body, the eye in the head, or the watchman in his tower. For this I am fully persuaded of, that as the soul is the life of the body, and the eye the light of the same, so the word of God preached is the life, and light as well to the body as to the soul of man. And as necessary as the one is to the body, so (and much more) necessary is the other both to soul and body. Now certain it is, these things cannot be applied without the presence of the preacher or pastor▪ and therefore is his absence from his flock a dangerous and a perilous thing, and as it were a taking away of their life and light from them; which cometh by the preaching of God's word unto them.  Theod. 
But they say though they be not present by themselves, ●●t be they present by their substitutes and deputies, is no● that a sufficient discharge for them before God?  Amphil. 
I grant they are present by their deputies and substitutes, but if a man should ●ooke into a great sort of them, he should find them such as are fit●er to feed hogs, than christian souls. For as for some of them are they not such as can scarcely read true english? And for their zeal to God's word and true religion, are they not such as can scarce tell what it meaneth? The truth of God's word they cannot easily preach nor expound. The adversary they cannot refel: bark against sin they dare not, because their lives are licentious. They will read you their service fair and cleanly (as the doting papists did their blasphemous) masses out of their porcesses) and when they ha●e done, they will to all kind of want on pastimes and delights, with come that come will, and that upon sabbath day, festival day, or other, no day is amiss to them. And all the week after, yea all the year (if I said all the years of their life I lied not) they will not stick to keep company at the alehouse from morning till night, tippling and swilling till the sign be in Capricornus. Insomuch as if you would know where the best cup of drink is, go to these malt worms, and I warrant you you shall not miss of your purpose. By these mercenaries their deputies, and the like, I grant they are present in all their flocks, but so as it were better▪ or as good they were absent for any good they do, but rather hurt by their evil example of life. The residence of these their deputies is no discharge for them before the tribunal seat of God: for notwithstanding the same, let them be sure to answer for the blood of every one of their sheep, that miscarrieth through their default, or their deputies. Their deputies shall not excuse them at the day of judgement I dare be their warrant. Therefore I wish them to take heed to it betime, lest afterward it be too late.  Theod. 
But I hear say, that what is wanting either in their deputies, or in themselves for not being daily resident, they supply either by preaching their quarter sermons themselves, or else (if they be not able) by procuring of others to do it for them. Is not that well?  Amphil. 
It is as though a man every quarter of a year once, should take his plough, & go draw a furrow in a field, & yet notwithstanding should look for increase of the same: were not be a foolish husbandman that would do thus? And even so is he no less unwise that ploughing but one furow, that is, preaching but one poor sermon in a quarter of a year (& perchance but one in a whole year, nay in 7. years) will notwithstanding look for great increase of the same. Now the cause why this ground bringeth not forth fruit is, for that it is not ploughed, furowed, & tilled all together as it ought to be. So the cause wherefore the poor churches do not bring forth fruit is, for that they are not furrowed, manured, and tilled, as they ought, and because the word of God is not preached unto them, and as it were brayed, punned, interpreted, and expounded, that it sinking down into the good ground of their hearts, might bring forth fruit to eternal life. If the strongest man's body that liveth upon the earth should be nourished with nothing for a whole quarter of a years space, but only with two or three drops of aqua vite, aqua angelica, or the like, every day, and at every quarter's end should be fed with all manner of dainties, I am persuaded that his body notwithstanding would soon be weak enough. Nay do you think it were possible to live one quarter of a year? Even so falleth out in this case. For although our souls (which live by the word of God, as our bodies do by meat) be daily fed with hearing the word read as it were with aqua vite, or sweet nectar, and at every quarter's end, have a most excellent & sumptuous banquet to pray upon, yet may they macerate and pine away notwithstanding for lack of the continuance of the same. And therefore the word of God is to be preached night and day, in time, and out of time, in season, and out of season, and that without ceasing, or intermission. And if that saying of the prophet be true (as without all controversy it is most true (that he is accursed. Qui fecerit opus domini negligenter, That doth the work of the Lord negligently, or fradulently, then must it needs be, that those who having cure of souls, and do seldom, or never preach, are within the compass of this curse. Let them take heed to it. The apostle Paul said of himself, Vae mihi nisi evangelizavero, Woe be to me, if I preach not the gospel, and do they think that the same woe is not proper to them if they preach not? Have they a greater privilege than the blessed apostle saint Paul had? No, no, these vain excuses will not serve them, therefore as they tender the salvation of their own souls, and many others, I wish them to take heed, and to show themselves painful labourers in the Lord's harvest.  Theod. 
As far as I remember by the laws of Dnalgne there is a restraint, that none shall have no more benefices at once than one, how is it then, that they can hold so many a piece, without danger of the law?  Amphil. 
They make the laws (as it were) shipmen hoos●n, or as a nose of wax, turning and wresting them, at their pleasure to any thing they lust. But because they will avoid the laws, they purchase a dispensation a licence, a commission, a plurality, a qualification, and I cannot tell what else, by virtue whereof they may hold tot-quots so many, how many soever, and that with as good a conscience as judas received the money for the which he sold Christ jesus the Saviour of the world. Or if this way will not serve, then get they to be chaplains, to honourable, & noble personages by prerogative whereof they may hold I cannot tell how many benefices, yea as many as they can get. But I marvel whether they think that these licenses shall go for good payment at the day of judgement. I think not. For sure I am that no licence of man can dispense with us, to do that thing, which is against God's word (as these tot-quots is) and therefore unlawful. They may blind the foolish world with pretenced dispensations, and qualifications, but the Lord will bring them to account for it in his good time, GOD grant they may look to it?  Theod. 
In whom doth the patronage, right, and gifture of these ecclesiastical promotions, and benefices consist, in the churches themselves, or in whom else?  Amphil. 
Indeed you say well. For who should have the patronage, the right, the interest, and gifture of the benefices, but the churches themselves, whose the benefices are by right, and to whom Proprio iu●e, They do appertain? For do not the benefices consist either in tithes, or contributions, or both? Now, who giveth both the one and the other? Do not the Churches? Then by good reason ought they to have the gifture and bestowing of them, and the right and interest thereof aught to remain in the power of the church, and not in any other private man whatsoever.  Theod. 
Why? Then I perceive you would not have any private or singular man of what degree soever, to have the patronage the right, or gifture of any ecclesiastical living, but the churches themselves, is not that your meaning?  Amphil. 
Yes truly, that is my meaning, and so I am of opinion it ought to be.  Theod. 
Why so I beseech you?  Amphil. 
Because one man may easily be corrupted, and drawn to bestow his benefice either for favour, affection, or money, upon such as be unworthy, the whole Church will not so. Again, the whole living is nothing else but either pure alms, or devotion, or both, the Gentleman or other that pretendeth the gifture thereof, giveth not the whole living himself, ergo he ought not to have in his own power, the only gifture of the same. Thirdly the whole church will not give the same for simony, one private man may be induced to do it. fourthly, the church will keep no part of the living back from the pastor, if he do his duty, nor employ it to there own use, the singularity of one man may easily be abused: nay the most patrons keep the fa●test morsels to themselves, and give scarcely the crumbs to their pastors. But if the benefice be worth two hundred pound, the will scarcely give their pastor four score. If it be worth an hundred pound, they will hardly give forty pound. If worth forty pound it is well if they give ten pound, employing the better half to their own private gain. Now if this be not sacrilege, and a robbing of the poor churches of their substance, as also a defrauding of the Lords minister of his duty and right, than I know not what sacrilege, and fraud meaneth. Yea there are some, that having ground in another parish, than where they dwell, against the time that their sheep, kine, and other cattle should bring f●●rth increase, will drive them thither, so that the fruit falling in the other rar●sh, he shall not need i● pa● tithes for the same to his own pastor where he dwelleth. And against the time that the other pastor of that parish where his cattle ●●ll, shall demand his tithes thereof, they will have fetched home their cattle, so that by these sinister kind of means, they will neither pay in the one parish, nor in the other. But if the one commence suit against him, he answereth, they fell not in his parish: if the other do the same, he pleadeth that he is not of his parish, nor dweth him aught. But indeed they will pay for their ground in the other parish a little herbage (as they call it) a thing of nothing to stop his mouth withal. So that hereby the poor pastors are detained from their right, and almost beggared in most places that I have come in.  Theod. 
How came temporal men by the right of their patronages, and how fell they into their clouches, can you tell?  Amphil. 
I will tell you as far as ever I could conjecture how they fell into their hands. In the beginning when Antichrist the pope exercised his usurped authority, and challenged the title of supreme head over the universal church of Christ upon the face of the earth, to whomsoever would either erect churches, temples, and oratory's (as then the world was given to blind superstition as to instaurate ●●beies, prieries, nunneries, with other sumptuous edefices, and houses of religion, thinking the same a work meritorious, and to guilt, crosses images, and the like fooleries) or else give ground for the same to be built upon, his unholy holiness, did give the patronage, and pretenced right of the same church, and benefice belonging to the same. Othersome think (to whom I willingly subscribe) that the Churches (consisting of simple, and ignorant men for the most part) abusing the same benefices, and bestowing them upon unmeet persons, the princes have taken them out of their hands, and given the right patronage, and possession of the same to the temporalty, to the end they might bestow them better. But as they were taken from the churches for some causes, so ought they to be removed and given again to the Churches for greater causes. For now are they bought and sold for simony, even as an ore or a cow is bought and sold for money.  Theod. 
Are there no laws for the restraint of simony, being so horrible, and detestable a vice in the church of God?  Amphil. 
Yes that there are. As he that is patron taking money for his benefice, to lose the patronage of the same, and the ecclesiastical person, that giveth it, to lose the same benefice, the money given or promised to be given, and to remain incapable of any other ecclesiastical promotion afterward for ever. But do you think they are fools? Have they no shift to defeat the law. Yes I warrant you. For though they give two hundred, or three hundred pound for a benefice, yet it shall be done so cloosely, as no dogs shall bark at it. But because at the time of their initiation, institution, induction, and admission they are sworn whether they came by it by simony or no, whether they gave any money for it, or no, therefore to avoid the guilt of perjury, they the pastors themselves will not give any money, but their friends shall do it for them, and than may they swear (with as good a conscience as ever judas betrayed Christ) that they gave not a penny, but came by it freely, as of gift. Or if this way fail them, than must they give the patrons a hundred pound, or two hundred pounds upon some bargain, that is not worth a hundred pence, and then may they swear if need be, that they came by the bene●●ce frankelye, and freely, and that they gave the money upon such and such a bargain, without some of these practices, or without such a dish of apples, as Master Latimer talketh of with thirty angels in every apple, though he be never so learned a man, I warrant him, he gets nothing. But if he can get a graff of this tree laden with such golden apples, it will serve him better, than all Saint Paul's learning. For these and the like abuses infinite, if the patronages were taken away from them, that now enjoy them, nay, that make ha●ocke of them, and either to rest in the right of the Prince (as they ought) or else in the right of the churches, who will not be corrupted, it were a great deal better, than now they be. For now the poor pastors are so handled at the hands of their patrons, that they neither have money to buy them books withal, nor which is less not to maintain themselves upon though but meanly, but are many times constrained either to wander abroad to seek their livings or else to take up their Inn in an alehouse, or in some odd corner or other, to the great discredit of the gospel of Christ, and offence of the godly. This argueth flatly that we love not Christ jesus, who make so little of his messengers, and ambassadors. He that despiseth you, despiseth me, and he that receiveth and maketh much of you, he receiveth me, and maketh much of me saith Christ. The beathen gentiles, and pagans, provide better for their idolatrous priests, than we do for the true preachers of the gospel, and disclosers of the secrets of God. For when the Egyptians were sore pooled of Pharaoh, the priests by his commandment were excepted, and permitied to have all necessary maintenance whatsoever. But we are of another mind, for we think whatsoever we get of them is won, it is our own good, whereas in truth, what we withdraw from them (provided that they be diligent preachers of the pospell) we withdraw it from God, and ferry it to the devil. But hereof more shall be spoken (Christ willing) hereafter, when we come to this question, whether it be lawful for preachers and ministers of the Gospel, to receive wages and stipends for preaching of the word.  Theod. 
By what law may a minister of the Gospel make claim to tithes, and other profits, emoluments, duties and commodities, belonging to him, by the law of God, or of man?  Amphil. 
God in the law of Moses, gave special commnandement that tithes, and other oblations, commodities, and profits should be given to the priests, to the end that they might attend upon the divine service of God, and not busy themselves in worldly affairs, which ordinance or fanction being mere ceremonial▪ is now fully abrogate by Christ (for in him the truth, all ceremonies, shadows, types & figures ceased, & took their end.) And therefore cannot a preacher of the Gospel claim his tithes by the law of Moses, but by the positive laws of Christian princes, which are to be obeyed in all things (not directly against true godliness) upon pain of damnation.  Theod. 
Are tithes then due to be paid by the positive law of man, and not by the law of God?  Amphil. 
Yea truly by the positive law of man: which godly constitution is now no less to be obeyed under the Gospel (being commanded by a christian prince) than the divine institution was to be obeyed under the law. And although tithes be due by the positive laws of man, yet are the same grounded upon the word of God, and commanded as well by God as by man. And therefore he that breaketh this ordinance (being an excellent policy) violateth the commandments of God, and breaketh the constitution of his liege prince to his damnation, except he repent.  Theod. 
Must every one pay his tithes truly to every pastor whether he be aught, or nought, learned or unlearned, without any exception, or may he detain it with good conscience from him that is an unfit and unable minister?  Amphil. 
If he be a good pastor and diligent in his calling, and withal able to discharge the duty of a faithful shepherd over his flock, then ought he to have all tithes paid him whatsoever with the better, and if any should withhold the least mite from him, he sinneth against the majesty of God most grievously. And although he be a wicked man, and not able to discharge his duty, though but in small measure, yet ought every man to pay him his due faithfully and truly. For in denying him his duty, they might seem to withstand authority, which they ought not to do. In the mean time giving themselves to prayer, and suing to them that have the authority for his displacing, and placing of another that is more able in some measure to discharge the duty of a faithful pastor. Notwithstanding I know some are of opinion that if any man give either tithes, or any duty else to their pastor being an unfit, and an unable person, he is partaker with him of his sin, he communicateth with other men's offences, and he maintaineth him in his idleness, sloth, ignorance, and security, and therefore offendeth grievously. But I am of opinion that every man ought to pay their duty (for else he might seem as I said to resist the power) & if he be not able to discharge his duty, to pray for his removing, and to make instance to them that are in authority appointed for the redress of such enormities, for his displacing, and so not to attempt any thing without good and lawful authority grounded upon the word for the same▪  Theod. 
May a pastor that hath a charge and a flock assigned him to watch over (having & maintainable living allowed him of his flock) preach in other places for money▪  Amphil. 
He may sometimes obtaining licence for some reasonable cause of his own flock, preach the word of God abroad in other places, but then he ought to do it gratis, contenting himself with the living allowed him at home of his own parish. Notwithstanding, if the other churches where he shall have preached, will voluntarily impart any thing to the supply of his necessities, in respect of his pains taking, he may thankfully receive the ●ame. but he may not compel, nor constrain them to give it him whether they will or not against their wills, as many impudently do●e  Theod. 
Then I perceive if it be not lawful for a pastor that hath a flock, and a stipend appointed him, to receive money upon constraint of strangers for preaching the word abroad in other places, then is it not lawful for him to take money in his cure for preaching funeral sermons, marriage sermons, christening sermons, and the like, as many do. What say you to this?  Amphil. 
There are many worthy of great blame in this respect. For though they receive forty pound, a hundred pound, or two hundred pound a year, of some one parish, yet will they hardly preach once a month, nay happily not once in a quarter of a year, and sometimes not once a twelve month, for the same. And if a man request them to preach at a burial, a wedding, or a christening, they will not do it under an angel, or a noble at the least. And therefore the papists, and adversaries to the Gospel call our Gospel, a polling Gospel, our sermons royal sermons, angel sermons, and noble sermons. You call say they our blessed mass a polling mass, but say they your preachings are more polling. For we say they would have sold a mass for a groat, you will not sell a sermon under a royal, or a noble. And thus these fellows are a slander to the Gospel, and robbers of their fellow brethren. If I should hire a man for forty pound, an hundred pound, or more, or less, to teach my children nurture and knowledge, if he for the execution thereof should ask me more for the same than we agreed for, were not this man a naughty, exacting, and fraudulent fellow? Nay if I compound with him to teach them in the best manner he is able for so much, and he doth it not, and yet receive my money, have not I good law against him? If he should say unto me, I will not do it except you give me more, were not this a very unreasonable man? For having his money that was covenant, is he not bound both by law and conscience to teach them to the uttermost of his power? Or if he shall not do it, and yet take my money, is not he a thief and a robber? Is this true in a private man, & not in an ecclesiastical person? Is he not hired to that end & purpose to preach the word of God to his flock? And hath he not wages for the same? Shall he now deny to preach the same word except he have more money? Or is he not bound in conscience to preach the same night and day without ceasing? And if he do not, is he not a deceiver, a thief, & a robber? The pastor therefore having taken upon him the cure & charge of his flock, and having his stipend appointed for the same, is bound to preach the word of God to all his flock indifferently whether it be at burial, wedding, christening (yea then especially) or at any other time whensoever, without taking, or requiring of any more money, than the stipend he was hired for. For if he take any more, it is plain theft before God, and one day shall be answered for: let them be sure of it.  Theod. 
You condemn not funeral sermons then, so that they be good, do you?  Amphil. 
No, God forbidden. Why should not godly sermons be as wholesome (and as necessary) at the burials of christians, when we have such lively spectacles before our eyes, of our mortality, misery, and end, as they be at all other times? Yea truly at that present I think godly sermons very necessary to put the people in remembrance of their mortality, of their great misery, and frailty, of their fatal end, of the immortality of the soul, of the general resurrection at the last day, and of the joy, felicity, and beatitude of the life to come, with the like godly instructions, that they may the better prepare themselves to the same when God shall call them hence to himself. And although of late some fantastical spirits have taught that the use of them is nought, in that they stand in place of popish diriges, and I cannot tell what, yet cannot I be easily drawn to assent unto them, for that I see them in that respect a great deal more curious than godly wise.  Theod. 
Is it lawful think you for ministers, and preachers of the Gospel to receive stipends, and wages for their preaching?  Amphil. 
Why not? Otherwise how should they be able to keep themselves free from worldly occupations, and travels of this life (as they ought) to apply their studies for the discharge of their duties, to maintain themselves, their family, and household, or how should they keep hospitality for the relief of the poor, all which they are bound to do both by God's law, and good conscience? Therefore take away livings, and wages from the preachers, and overthrow preaching altogether, the ordinary mean to salvation in Christ. This caused the apostle to enter disputation of this point, where he proveth by invincible arguments, that a preacher or minister of the Gospel of Christ jesus, may (salva conscientia, With a good conscience) receive wages, and stipends for his pains sustained in the affairs of the Gospel, and that for the causes abovesaid. Therefore saith this apostle: Bovi trituranti non ligabis os, Thou shalt not mussle the mouth of the ox that treadeth forth the corn. Whereby is meant, that he that laboureth, and taketh pains in any good exercise, ought not to be denied of his meed for his pains. Again he saith: Dignus est operarius mercede sua, The workman is worthy of his reward. And still insisting in the same argument, he saith: Qui evangelium praedicant, ex evangelio vivant, They that preach the Gospel, let them live upon the Gospel. And yet further prosecuting the same more at large, he saith: Quis militat, etc. Who goeth on warfare at any time of his own charges? Who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit? Who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock. By all which reasons, and arguments it appeareth, that he who preacheth the Gospel ought to live of the Gospel. But as every pastor that hath a peculiar stock assigned him may with the testimony of a good conscience receive wages, and maintenance of his flock, for his pains taken amongst them: so may he not, nor ought not to take wages or salary of any other flock adjoining, if so be it, that either upon request, or his own voluntary good will, he preach the word of God amongst them. To them that are thus provided for, Christ our saviour saith: Gratis accepistis, gratis date, Freely you have received, freely give again. But if any have not a special flock, or charge assigned him, then may he with good conscience receive the benevolencie, the friendly contributions, and rewards of the churches to whom he hath preached. And this is probable both by the word of God, and the examples of the apostles themselves.  Theod. 
What say you of preachers, and lecturers, that have no peculiar flocks, nor charges appointed them, are they necessary, and may they receive wages with a good conscience of the flocks, and charges where they preach the word of God?  Amphil. 
First you ask me whether preachers, and lecturers that have no peculiar ●locks nor charges of their own to attend upon, be necessary. Whereto I answer. That considering the s●ate, & condition of the church at this day, they are most necessary. But if it were so, that every church and congregation had his preacher (as every one ought to preach, else is he not sent by the Lord) then were they not so necessary, but considering that most churches are planted and fraught with single reading ministers, they are very behoveful to help to supply the defect of the others, that through the good industry as well of the one, as of the other, the churches of GOD may be instructed and nourished with the word of GOD to eternal life. Then you ask me whether these lecturers and preachers may receive wages of the churches to whom they preach, with a good conscience, whereto I answer, that they may. But yet I am persuaded, that it were much better for them to have particular flocks of their own▪ to the end that they receiving sufficient maintenance of them, might (if they were at any time disposed to bestow any spiritual graces abroad) do it Gratis, frankly and freely without any charges to the poor churches of jesus Christ.  Theod. 
But what if the pastors living be not maintaineable nor sufficient for him to live upon, may he not take wages of other flocks abroad?  Amphil. 
I am persuaded no. For if his living be too little, then ought the church to mend it, but if the church either for want of zeal will not, or through extreme poverty cannot increase his living, then ought the pastor to content himself with that little, which God hath sent him, following the example of the apostle, who biddeth the children of GOD to be content with their wages, be it little or be it much: for if they have meat, drink, and cloth, it is enough, and as much as nature requireth. We brought nothing (saith he) into this world, neither shall we carry any thing out. Again, those that will be rich, fall into divers temptations, and snares of the devil, which drown men in perdition and destruction. Therefore if it be sufficient to yield him meat, drink, cloth, and other necessaries, he is bound to content himself with the same. Which if he do (for the zeal he beareth to his flock) I doubt not but the Lord will open the hearts of his flock towards him, and both make them able, and willing to support his necessities. For if he deliver unto them spiritual things, doubtless the Lord will move them to give unto him temporal things. And therefore ought he to persevere, and in his good time, without all peradventure the Lord will look upon him, as he hath promised.  Theod. 
Do you allow of that vagrant ministery, which is in many countries, but most specially in Dnalgne sprung up of late, to the discredit of the Gospel of jesus Christ, and offence of the brethren?  Amphil. 
Allow of it quoth you? No God forbidden. But I rather deplore it with all my heart, knowing that it is most directly against the word of God, the example of the primitive age and all good reformed churches through the world. Is it not a pitiful case that two hundred, three hundred, five hundred, a thousand, five thousand, yea possible ten thousand shall be called into the ministery, in one country, not a quarter of them knowing where to have any living or charge? And what do they then? Run straggling, and roving over countries, from town to town, from city to city, from shire to shire, and from one place to another, till they have spent all that ever they have, and then the most of them either become beggars, or else attempt wicked and unlawful means to live by, to the great dishonour of God, and slander of the word.  Theod. 
Me think this is a great abuse, that so many, or any at all should be called into the ministery, not having flocks, and charges provided for them before.  Amphil. 
It is a great abuse indeed. For if pastor come of Pasco, to feed, if he be not a shepherd that hath no flock, and if he be not a feeder, that giveth no sustenance, nor a father that hath no child, then are they no shepherds, nor no watchmen sent from the Lord, that have neither flocks, nor charges to watch over. For he that is made a shepherd (or a minister) that hath no particular flock ready to receive him, is so far from being a lawful shepherd, by reason of his former admission, that he is rather made a pastor by the church that hireth him to be their watchman and guide, than of him that first called him into that function. And therefore would I wish that bishops and others to whom it doth (Ex officio) appertain to call, and admit pastors, and teachers in the church of GOD, to be very careful herein, and not rashly to lay their hands upon any, before they have had sufficient trial as well of their life and doctrine, as also of the flock and charge where they shall be resident, that they go not like masterless hounds up and down the countries to the slander of the Gospel.  Theod. 
Why? Then I perceive you would have none called into the ministery, before there be a place void for him, is not that your meaning?  Amphil. 
That is my meaning indeed.  Theod. 
But are you able to prove your assumption, out of the word of God, or else I will give but small credit to you in such matters of controversy as this is?  Amphil. 
I have not, neither do I mean to speak any thing unto you touching these matters, but what I am able (I trust) to prove by the word of God. And yet I grant Errare possum (for Hominis est labi, & decipi, Man may be deceived and fall) but Hereticus esse nolo, Err I may, but heretic I will not be. No, so soon as I shall be convinced by the manifest word of God, of any of my former positions or assertions, I will willingly subscribe to the truth. But being persuaded as I am, give me leave, I beseech you (under correction) to speak what I think. But now to the purpose. In the first chapter of the Acts of the apostles recorded by the Evangelist Saint Luke, we read that Mathias succeeding judas the traitor in the administration of the apostleship, was not chosen nor elected (notwithstanding that the apostles by the revelation of the spirit of GOD, knew that he should fall from the same in the end) until the place was void, and empty. In the sixth chapter of the Acts of the apostles we read also of seven deacons, which were chosen for the daily ministering to the poor, but when I pray you? Not before the church (destitute of their service) had need of them, nor before there were places ready to receive them, wherein they might exercise their function, and calling. Then if the apostles would not choose not so much as deacons, which is an office in the church of God far inferior to the office of the pastor, or preacher, before places were void and ready to receive them, much less would they, or did they choose or call any pastor into the church of God, before the church stood in need of him, and before there be a place ready to receive him. Besides that, we read not through the whole evangelical history, that ever the apostles called any to be pastors and preachers of the word, before such time as there were places void for them. Common reason me ●●inke, and daily experience should teach us this truth sufficiently, if we were not wilfully blinded, that when any church or congregation is destitute of a pastor, it were better to place there one able person, than to make two or three hundred, or more unable fellows, and they for want of living to run straggling the countries over, without any living or maintenance at all, being glad of any thing. For as the old saying is: Hungry dogs eat sluttish puddings.  Theod. 
What order would you have observed in this?  Amphil. 
Me think this were a very good order. That every church or congregation being destitute of a pastor should present to the bishops, and others to whom it doth appertain, one or two, three or four able persons, or more, or less, as they conveniently can, whose lives and conversations they have had sufficient trial of, whose soundness in religion, integrity of life, and godly zeal to the truth they are not ignorant of. Then the bishops and others to whom it doth appertain, to examine and try them thoroughly for their sufficiency in learning, soundness in doctrine, and dexterity in teaching, and finding them furnished with sufficient gifts for such an honourable calling to admit them, to lay their hands upon them, and to send them forth (the chiefest of them) to that congregation or church so destitute. Which order if it were strictly observed and kept (as it ought to be) then should not so many run abroad in the countries to seek livings, than should not churches be pestered with insufficient ministers. Then should not the bishops be so deceived in many as they be. And no marvel. For how should the bishop choose but be deceived in him, whom he never saw before, whose conversation he knoweth not, whose disposition he is ignorant of, and whose qualities and properties in general, he suspecteth not? Whereas if this order were established, that every church destitute of a pastor should present certain able men, whose conversation and integrity of life in every respect they perfectly know (for the whole church is not likely to err in judging of their conversations, who have been either altogether, or for the most part conversant amongst them) then (as I say, should not the bishop be deceived in any, nor yet any church scandalised with the wicked lives of their pastors (or rather depastors) as they be. For now it is thought sufficient for the certainty of his conversation, if he either have letters dimissory from one bishop to another (whereas they little or nothing know the conversation of the man) or else letters commendatory from any gentleman, or other, especially if they be of any reputation. If he can get these things, he is likely to speed I warrant him. Which thing is scarce well in my judgement. For you know one private man, or two, or three, or four may peraduerture either write upon affection, or else be corrupted with bribes or gifts, whereas the whole church cannot, nor would not. Therefore is the other the surer way.  Theod. 
How prove you that the churches that are destitute of a pastor, aught to present him whom they would have admitted, to the bishop, and not the bishop to intrude upon the church whom he will?  Amphil. 
In the first chapter of the Acts of the apostles before cited, we read, that after the defection of judas the traitor, the apostle Peter knowing it necessary that one should be chosen in his place, to give testimony and witness of the resurrection, and ascension of Christ jesus, commanded the church to present one or two, or more, as they thought good, that he with his fellow brethren might confirm and allow them. And thereupon saith the text, they chose two, to wit, Mathias, and joseph, surnamed Bersabas. And the church having presented them, they were elected, confirmed, and allowed of the apostles and elders. Also in the foresaid sixth chapter of the Acts of the apostles when the deacons (whose office was to make collections for the poor, and to see the same bestowed upon them without fraud or deceit) were to be chosen, the text saith, that the apostles desired the church to choose forth seven men from amongst them, of honest report, & full of the holy Ghost, which they might appoint to that business. By all which reasons appeareth, that the church ought to present him, or them, whom they would have to be admitted, and not that the bishop ought to present, to allow,, or to intrude him upon the church at his pleasure against the will thereof.  Theod. 
Why would you not have pastors to be thrust upon the churches, whether the churches will or not?  Amphil. 
Because it is manifest that no church will so willingly receive, nor yet so lovingly embrace him that is intruded upon them against their wills, as they will do him that they like of, choose, and allow of themselves. And if the churches bear not a singular love, favour, good will, and affection to their pastor, it is unpossible that they should hear him, or learn of him with profit to their souls. And if they hear him not Auide & sitienter (as we say) Greedily and thirstily thereby to profit, then shall they perish everlastingly, in that the word of God is the ordinary mean appointed by the divine majesty. And therefore in conclusion if there be not a mutual amity, love, and affection betwixt the pastor and his flock▪ and if that the one l●ue not the other, as themselves, it is not to be looked for that either the one shall teach, or the other receive any thing to their soul's health, but rather the clean contrary.  Theod. 
I pray you what is your judgement in this? What if a man be once lawfully called into the ministery, may he ever upon any occasion whatsoever, leave off the same function, and apply himself to secular affairs?  Amphil. 
There is a twofold calling. The one a divine calling immediately from God, the other a human calling immediately from and by man. Now he that hath the first divine calling (his conscience suggesting the same unto him, and the spirit of God certifying his spirit of the certainty thereof) being furnished with gifts and graces necessary for such a high function and office (as God calleth none, but he endueth them first with gifts, and graces necessary for their calling) and afterwards is lawfully called of man according to the prescript of God's word, having a flock appointed him whereupon to attend, this man may not, nor ought not at any hand to give over his calling, but to persevere in the same to the end, for that he hath both the divine and human callings, being furnished with all gifts, and graces necessary (in some measure) for the discharge of his high function and calling. Yet notwithstanding in time of extreme persecution, when God's truth is persecuted, and his glory defaced, if he have not wherewithal to maintain his estate otherwise, he may for the time give himself to manual occupations, and corporal exercises in the affairs of the world, as we see the apostles themselves did, who after Christ jesus was crucified gave themselves to their old occupations of fishing, making of of nets, tents, pavilions, and the like. But upon the other side, if a man have not this divine calling, his conscience bearing him witness thereof, nor yet the graces, gifts, and ornaments of the mind, fit for his calling (which whosoever hath not, it is a manifest argument that the Lord hath not sent him, for those that he sendeth, he furnisheth with all kind of graces, and gifts necessary for their callings) this man though he be called by human calling never so precisely, yet he may, nay he ought to leave his function, as unworthy to occupy a room in the church of God, representing (as an idol doth) that thing which he is not. Besides, he that is compelled, and enforced either by friends (as many are) or by poverty (as not a few be) or for any other respect else to take that high function upon him, without the testimony of a good conscience, being not furnished with gifts, and graces fit for such a calling (which argueth directly that God hath not called him) he I say is so far from being bound never to leave his function and calling, that he ought not one minute of an hour to continue in the same, though he be called by man a thousand times. Therefore he that is a minister, and hath charge of souls committed unto him, let him if he be not furnished with such gifts ●s his high calling requireth, in the name of GOD make no doubt of it to give over his function unto others that are able for their gifts to discharge the same, in the mean time giving himself to godly exercises of life, as God may be glorified, his conscience disburdened, and the commonwealth profited.  Theod. 
But I have heard of some that considering the naughtiness of their calling, and their own insufficiency to discharge the same, have therefore left off their function, giving themselves to secular exercises, and in the end have been enforced to resume their former function upon them again, and that whether they would or not. How think you of this?  Amphil. 
I think truly that they who compelled them to take again that function which they were not able to discharge, and therefore lest it have grievously offended therein. This is as if I knowing a simple ignorant fool presumptuously to have taken upon him a great and weighty charge, yea such a charge as all the wisdom in the world is not able thoroughly to perform, and when he in taking a view of his own insufficiency, should be moved to leave his charge to others better able to execute the same than he, I should notwithstanding not only counsel, but also compel him to resign again his former great charge which I know he is neither worthy, nor yet able ever to accomplish. Think you not that he that compelleth him to take again that office or calling which before he had least for his inability, shall not answer for the same, yes truly, you may be sure of it? In conclusion, he that is sufficiently furnished with such gifts as are necessary for his calling, & withal is found able to discharge in some sort his duty ought not to leave his function (for to such a on that so doth, Christ saith he that layeth hand upon the plough, and looketh back, is not fit for the kingdom of God.) But again, he that hath not these gifts, and graces sufficient for his calling, to the discharge of his duty ought not to occupy a place in the church of God, as the pastor thereof, much less ought he when he hath (for his inabiltie) left the same to be constraied to resume again his former function, and calling, which he is not able to discharge. But hereof enough.  Theod. 
Then I perceive that any minister or ecclesiastical person that hath not gifts sufficient to discharge his duty may with good conscience leave their functions, and give themselves to live by their labours, as others temporal men do, may they not?  Amphil. 
Yes, with a better conscience than to retain them being not able to discharge them in any small measure. For with what conscience can he receive temporal things of his flock, and is not able to give them spiritual? With what face can a shepherd receive of his sheep, the milk, the wool, and fleece, and yet will not, or cannot give to the same either meat or drink sufficiently? With what conscience can he receive forty pound, a hundred pound, or two hundred pound, a year of his poor flock, and is not able to break to them the bread of life, in such form, and manner as he ought? Nay how can he ever have quiet conscience that knowing that the blood of all those that die ghostly for want of instruction shall be powered upon his head at the day of judgement, and be demanded at his hands, will yet notwithstanding refeane the same charge, and function to himself still, not being able to discharge the least jot of the same? Therefore would I wish every man of what office, function, or calling soever he be, if he be not able to discharge his duty in the same, to give it over, and not for greediness of a little muck or dung of the earth, (For money is no better) to cast away their souls, which jesus Christ hath bought with his most precious blood.  Theod. 
Is it lawful for a pastor or minister that hath a flock to depart from the same. In the time of plague, pestilence, or the like, for fear of infection?  Amphil. 
Is he a good shepherd that when he seethe the wolves coming, will take him to his heels and run away? Or is he a sure friend that when a man hath most need of his help, will then get him packing, not showing any friendship towards him at all? I think not? And truly no more is he a good pastor, or minister, (but rather a depastor, and minisher) that in time of any plague pestilence or sickness, whatsoever will convey himself away from his flock, for fear of infection, at the hour of death, when the poor people have most need of comfort above all other times, then is he their pastor that should feed them, the furthest from them. When they stand upon the edge as it were of salvation, or damnation, then permits he the wolf to have the rule over them. Our Saviour Christ saith Bonus pastor animulam dat pro ovibus▪ A good shepherd giveth his life for his sheep, but these fellows are so far from giving their lives for their sheep, that they seek to save their own lives with the destruction of their whole flock. This is the love that they bear unto their flock, this is the care they have over their soul's health, which Christ jesus bought so dear with the price of his blood. Out upon those shepherds that for fear of incurring of corporal death (which is to the Godly an entrance into perpetual glory) will hazard many a thousand to die a corporal and a spiritual death both, yea, & death of damnation both of body & soul for ever. Do they think that their blood shall not be asked at their hands at the great day of the Lord. Do they think that their flying away from their flock, is a mean to preserve their lives the longer upon earth: Is not God able to strike them as well in the fields, as in the city, as well in the country as in the town, in one place, as well as in another? Is not his power everywhere? Is not his messenger death in all places? Saith he not in the book of Deuteron▪ that if we do not those things, which he hath commanded us in his sacred word, cursed shall we be at home, and cursed in the fields. And saith he not further, that the plague and pestilence, the botch, boil, blain, or else what deadly infection soever shall follow us, and lay hold upon us, in what place soever we be, and shall never departed from us, till it have quite consumed us from the face of the earth? And do these fugitives that overrun their flocks in time of infection, think that they shall escape the heavy wrath and vengeance of God for their tergiversation and backsliding from their duties? Do they think that God cannot save them from corporal death, but with the breach of their duties towards God? Is not the Lord as well able to defend them from any deadly infection if it be his good pleasure, as he was to defend Sidrach, Misaach, and Abednego from the flaming fire? Daniel from the mouth of the lions, jonas from the jaws of the mighty whale, with many others that trusted in him? Do they think that his arm is shortened, or his power weakened? Is he not able to deliver his children, that in doing of their duties depend upon his providence? And to be plain with them, me think that in flying away from their flocks, they show themselves to think that either God is not almighty, or else not merciful, or neither. For if they believed that he were almighty, and that he were able to save them, than they would never run away from their flock, but depending upon his providence, believe that he is as well able to deliver them in one place as in another, if it be his good pleasure. And if they believed that he were merciful, then would they rest upon the same, not doubting, but as he is almighty, and omnipotent, and therefore can do all things, so he is most merciful, and therefore will preserve all those that put their trust in him. If a temporal magistrate that exerciseth but a civil office in the commonwealth should go away from his charge for fear of infection or plague, whereas his present abode might do more good than his absence, he greatly offendeth, how much more than offendeth he, that being a pastor or feeder of souls, flieth away from his charge, whereas his presence might do a thousand times more good than his absence? And if it please the Lord to take them away to himself, are they not most happy? Enter they not into eternal glory? And have they not an end of all miseries and pains in this life, and the perfect fruition of perpetual joy in the heavens? Are they not blessed, if when the Lord shall call them, he find them so well occupied as in feeding, & breaking the bread of life to the poor members of Christ jesus for whose sakes he shed his heart blood?  Theod. 
But they say, we ought not to tempt God, which thing they must needs do if they should tarry when they see death before their face. And they say further, that it is written that we must keep the whole from the sick, and the sick from the whole. Besides say they, Natura dedit, potestatem tuendi vitam omni animanti, Nature hath given power of defending of life to every living creature. Again, every thing fleeth from his contrary, but death is contrary to nature, for it came through the corruption of nature, therefore we fly from the same by the instinct of nature. These and the like fond reasons they allege, for their excuse in flying from their flocks, and charges, what say you to them?  Amphil. 
I can say little to them. But only this, that none of all these reasons do privilege them to discontinue from their flocks and charges. And whereas they say, that their staying were a tempting of God, it is very untrue, it is rather a reverent obedience to this tripled commandment, Pasce oves meas, pasce oves meas, pasce oves meas, Feed my sheep, feed my sheep, feed my sheep. But indeed if it were so that a private man who hath no kind of function nor office, neither ecclesiastical nor temporal, seeing himself if he stay still in great danger of death, & might avoid the danger by flying, & so by the grace of God prolong his life, and yet will not, this man if he tarry tempteth the Lord, and is a murderer of himself before God. And to such it is said, thou shalt keep the whole from the sick, & the sick from the whole. This is the meaning & sense of these words, and not that they do privilege any man for not doing of his duty. But notwithstanding all that can be said in confutation of this great & extreme contempt of their duties, I have known and do know some ministers (nay wolves in sheeps clothing) in Dnalgne that in time of any plague, pestilence or infection, though there hath been no great danger at all that have been so far from continuing amongst their flock, that if any one of them were sick, although of never so common or usual disease, yet fearing to be infected with the contagion thereof they have absented themself altogether, from visiting the sick according as they ought, & as duty doth bind them. Yea some of them (suppose you of mercenaries, & hirelings, but not of god pastors) are so nice, so fine & so fearful of death forsooth the in no case they cannot abide to visit the sick, neither by day nor by night. But in my judgement it is as incident to their office and duty, to visit, to comfort, to instruct, and relieve the sick, at the hour of death, as it is for them to preach the word of God to their flock all the days of their life. And peradventure they may do more good in one hour at the last gasp, than they have done all the days of their life before. For he that in his life time hath had in small estimation the blessed word of God, but following his own humours in hope to live long, hath lead a very wicked and impenitent life, now through the consideration and sight of death, which he seethe before his eyes, together with godly exhortations, admonitions, and consolations, out of the word of God, may easily be withdrawn from his former wicked life, and dying in the faith of jesus Christ, with true repentance for his sins, tofore committed, live for ever in joy both of body & soul, whereas if exhortations had not been, he might (happily) have died irrepentant, or utterly desperate to his everlasting destruction for ever. Yea, it is commonly seen, that those who could never be won to Christ jesus, all the days of their life before, yet at the last hour they are soon recovered. Therefore ought not the pastors to neglect their duties therein, but warily, and carefully to watch over their flocks, night and day without ceasing that when the great shepherd of the sheep cometh, he may reward them with the immercessible crown of eternal glory. And thus much be it spoken hereof.  Theod. 
In whom doth the election of the minister or pastor consist in the church only or in the bishops?  Amphil. 
I told you before (as I remember) that the church might examine the life, the conversation, and disposition of him, or them, whom they would have to be their pastor, and finding the same good to present him, or them, to the bishops, or elders to whom it appertaineth, to examine for his sufficiency in knowledge, and dexterity, in teaching and handling the word of God, and finding him a man furnished with gifts and graces necessary for such a high vocation, to call him lawfully according to the word of God, and so to send him forth into the Lord's harvest, as a faithful labourer therein.  Theod. 
But some are of opinion that the churches themselves of their own absolute, and plenary power ought to choose their pastor, and not bishops,  Ampil. 
The churches have no further power in the election of their pastor, than as I have told you, that is, to judge of his conversation & integrity of life, referring the whole action beside to the bishops, and elders. For if the churches should elect their minister or pastor of themselves absolutely, besides that it would breed confusion (for some would choose one, some another, some this, and some that, never contenting themselves with any) the church should do that also, which were directly contrary to the word of God. For certain it is the church hath no absolute power by the word of God to elect their pastor, to choose him, to call him orderly in such form as is appointed in the word, observing all kind of rites, ceremonies, & orders belonging thereto. Neither was it ever seen that any church did ever practise the same. For in the days of the apostles did the churches any more than choose forth certain persons of a tried conversation, & presented them to the apostles? And did not the apostles then whom our bishops now in this action do represent) lay their hands upon them, approve them (after trial had of their sufficiency in knowledge) and sent them forth into the Lord's vineyard? The churches laid not their hands upon them, or as some call it consecrated them not, nor used not any other ceremonial rite in the election of them, as the apostles did. But as I grant that the church for some cause, and in so● respects is not to be excluded from a consultative voice (as before) or from being made privy at all to the election of their pastor, so I deny that the church may absolutely of his own plenary power call their pastor, all ceremonies and rites thereto belonging observed, for that is to be done and executed of the bishops & elders, and not of the churches consisting of lay men, and for the most part rude, and unlearned.  Theod. 
What say you to a signiory or eldership, were it not good for the state of the church at this day that the same were established in every congregation, as it was in the apostles days.  Amphil. 
The several estates and conditions of the apostolical churches, and of ours (all circumstances duly considered) are divers, and much different one from another, and therefore though a signiory or eldership then in every particular church were necessary, yet now under christian princes it is not so needful. The churches than wanted christian princes and magistrates to govern the same, and therefore had need of some others to rule in the church. But God be thanked we have most christian kings, princes, and governors, to rule and govern the church, & therefore we stand in less need of the other. And yet notwithstanding I grant that a signiory in every congregation were to be wished, if it could be brought to pass, yet cannot I perceive, but that it would rather bring confusion, than reformation, considering the state of the church at this day. For in the apostles times when signiories were ordained, we read not of any shires, dioceses, or precincts, where bishops and ecclesiastical magistrates might exercise their authority and government, as now they do, and therefore, there being neither bishops, ecclesiastical nor civil magistrates (as we have now) it was necessary that the signiories should be ordained. But now we having all these things, stand not in such necessity of them, as the churches in the apostles days did. Besides, the institution of elders was but mere ceremonial, and temporal, and therefore not to continue always, neither aught the necessity thereof to bind all churches. Neither do I think that all churches are bound for ever to one form of external government, but that every church may alter, and change the same, according to the time, and present state thereof, as they shall see the same to make for the glory of God, and the common peace of the church.  Theod. 
What say you to deacons? Is their office necessary or not in the church of God at this day?  Amphil. 
Their office (which was to make collections for the poor, to gather the benevolencies, and contributions of every one that were disposed to give, and to see the same bestoed upon the poor and needy members of the church) is very necessary, and without doubt ought to be continued for ever. But yet is not the church tied to their names only, but to their office. Which office is executed by honest substantial men (called Churchwardens or the like) chosen by the consent of the whole congregation to the same end and purpose, who daily gathering the friendly benevolencies of the churches, bestow, or see the same bestowed upon the poor, and indigent of the same church, which was the greatest part of the deacons duties in the apostles days. So that albeit we have not the name, we yet hold their office in substance and effect.  Theod. 
What is your judgement, ought there to be any bishops in the churches of christians?  Amphil. 
To doubt whether there ought to be bishops in the churches of christians, is to doubt of the truth itself. For is there not mention made of their names, dignities, functions, and callings, almost in every chapter of the new testament, in all the epistles of Paul, of Peter, of john, of Jude, and of all the rest? Besides that did not the apostles themselves constitute and ordain bishops and elders, and do they not wonderfully commend the excellency of their calling, inferring that those that rule well, are worthy of double honour? Whereby appeareth that bishops are not only needful in the churches of christians, but also most needful, as without whom I can scarcely see how the state of the church could well be maintained. And therefore those that contend that they are not necessary in a Christian Common wealth, show themselves either wilful, wayward, or maliciously blind, and striving to catch their own shadows, they labour all in vain, giving manifest demonstration of their more than extreme folly to all the world.  Theod. 
Well. Let it be granted (as it cannot be denied) that they are most necessary, yet in this I would very gladly be absolved, whether they may lawfully vindicate or challenge to themselves superiority, and primacy above their fellow brethren of the ministery or no, for some hold that there ought to be equality in the ministery, and no superiority at all, how say you?  Amphil. 
They do not vindicate or challenge any superiority or primacy to themselves over their brethren in respect of their common callings, and functions (for therein the poorest pastor or shepherd that is, is coequal with them, they themselves will not deny) but in respect of dignity, authority, and honour, which the prince and church doth bestow upon them. So that the superiority that they have over their brethren, resteth in dignity, authority, and honour, which it hath pleased the prince to dignify them withal above their fellow brethren, and not in calling, function, or office, for therein they are all coequal together. But if any curious he●●s should demand why the prince should advance any of the clergy to such high dignity, authority, and primacy above his brethren, I answer as it is in the Gospel: Is thine e●e evil, because the prince is good? May not the prince give his gifts, his, dignities, and promotions to whom he will? And if the prince of his royal clemency be minded to bestow upon his subject any dignity or promotion, is it christian avedience to refuse the same? Nay is it not extreme ingratitude towards his prince? Besides, who seethe not, that if there should be no superiority (I mean in dignity, & authority only) the same honourable office or calling would grow into contempt? For is it not an old saying, and a true, Familiaritas, sive aequalitas parit contemptum, Familiarity, or coequallitie doth ever bring contempt. And therefore take away authority, and honour from the magistrates either temporal or spiritual, and overthrow the same altogether. If authority should not be dignified, as well with glory, and external pomp the better to grace the same, & to show forth the majesty thereof, would it not soon grow to be despised, vilipended and nought set by? And therefore the more to ennoble, and set forth the excellency of this honourable calling of a bishop, hath the prince, & the churches thought it good to bestow such authority, dignity, and honour upon them, and not for any other cause whatsoever. And therefore seeing it is the pleasure of the prince to bestow such dignity, authority, and honour upon them, me think, any sober christians should easily tolerate the same.  Theod. 
Yea, but they say, that there ●ught to be no superiority in the ministery, bringing in the example of the apostles themselves amongst whom was no superiority, inequality, or principality at all?  Amphil. 
Indeed amongst the apostles there was no superiority, I grant, neither in office calling, authority, nor otherwise, but all were equal in each respect, one to another. But what than? The apostles were sent to preach, to the churches, and not to govern (and therefore they choose elders to rule the same) but our bishops are as well to govern, and to rule the churches in some respects, as to preach the word. And therefore though there were no superiority amongst the apostles, yet may there be amongst our bishops in respect of government, dignity, and authority. And whereas they say there aught to be no superiority in the ministery at all, I answer no more there is in respect of every one's function, form of calling, and office to preach the word and minister the sacraments. But in respect of government, authority, dignity, and honour, there is superiority, and I am persuaded so ought to be. In which opinion, until they have disproved it, I mean Christ willing to persist.  Theod. 
But they add further, and say that it strengtheneth the hands of the adversaries, the papists. For say they the papists may as well affirm that christian emperors kings, and potentates, and even the churches of God themselves have given to the pope that authority, that dignity, and honour which he hath or claimeth above his fellow brethren, as well as the bishop may say so. Besides it confirmeth the opinion of sovereignty over at the churches in the world, For say they may not the pope say that he received plenary power to be head over all the world, from christian kings, emperors, and potentates, as well as the bishops may say, we received this power to be superior to our brethren from christian kings and princes. Now whether these reasons be a like I would gladly know.  Amphil. 
They be very unlike, and so unlike as there is no equality comparison, or semblance betwixt them. For first of all let them note, that the pope nor any of his complices, and adherents do not hold, nor pretend to hold (no they dare as well eat off their fingers as to say so, for than were their state in a woeful case) that their archdivell, their god the pope I should say doth receive his power either of authority, superiority, primacy, sovereignty, or head over all the world from any earthly creature, but immediately from God himself. But whereas he saith that he received his power of superiority over all the world from no earthy creature, but from God himself, it is manifest that he received it neither from God, (for his usurped power is contrary to God, and to his words in every respect) nor from any christian man, but from the Devil himself, whose vicegerent or Lieutenant general in his kingdom of impiety he shows himself to be. Than let them note, that although he pretended to hold his usurped authority from man (as he doth not,) yet is there no man how mighty an Emperor, King, Prince, or Potentate soever, that is able proprio iure to give him authority over all the world, without great and manifest injury done to all other Princes, as to give the sovereignty, or chiefty of their Lands from them, to a stranger. But a Prince may lawfully bestow, and give to his subjects any prerogative, title, authority, office function, government, or superiority of any thing within his own dominions and kingdoms, but no further he may not. And therefore this reason of theirs holdeth not, that the Pope may as well arrogate the one to himself, as the Bishops may the other to themselves.  Theod. 
Seeing now it cannot be denied, but that bishops are most necessary, and that they may also lawfully hold superiority over their brethren (in respect of government, regiment or authority) being given them of the prince, what say you then to this? Whether may a bishop be called by the name of an archbishop, metropolitan, primate, or by the name of my Lord bishop, my Lord's grace, the right honourable, and the like, or not? For me think these titles and names are rather peculiar to the temporalty than to them, & do savour of vainglory, and worldly pomp, rather than of any thing else. And which is more, me think they are against the express word of God. Wherefore I covet greatly to hear your judgement thereof?  Amphil. 
These names and titles may seem to savour of vainglory indeed, if they should arrogate them to themselves jure divino, as they do not. But if you will consider by whom they were given them, and how they do require them, you will not think it much amiss, nor far discrepant from the sincerity of the Gospel. First therefore note that they were given them by christian princes to dignify, to ennoble, to decore, and to set forth the dignity, the excellency, and worthiness of their callings. Secondly let them note that they require them as due unto them by the donation and gifture of men, and not jure divino, and therefore being given them for the causes aforesaid by christian kings and princes, they may in that respect hold them still without any offence to the divine goodness, or his faithful spouse upon the earth. But if they should claim them as due unto them by the law of God, as they do not, then should they offend. For our saviour Christ seeing his disciples and apostles ambitiously to affect the same vainglorious titles and names, set before them the example of the heathen kings, thereby the rather to withdraw them from their vain humour, saying: Reges gentium dominantur eyes, etc. The kings of the gentiles bear rule over them and those that exercise authority over them, be called gracious Lords, but Vos autem non sic, You shall not be so. In the which words he utterly denieth them (and in them all others to the world's end, that in the same office and function of life should succeed them) the titles of Lords, graces, or the like. The apostle also biddeth them to beware that they challenge not those vain titles to themselves by the law of God, when he saith (speaking to bishops and pastors) Be not Lords over your flocks, etc. By these and many other the like places of holy writ, it is clear that they cannot arrogate these names, or titles to themselves by the word of God, neither do they, but (as I have said) by the donation, the benevolence, and gifture of christian Princes for the reverent estimatis- they bore and aught to bear to their high function and calling, in that they are his Lieutenants, his vicegerents in his Church, his messengers, his Ambassadors, the disclosers and proclaimers of his secrets, and his Angels, (for so are they called in the scriptures) & therefore in respect of the excellency hereof, these names were given and attributed unto them. And truly to speak my simple judgement, I see not but that these names do dignify their callings, show forth the majesty thereof, and des move the Churches to have the same high calling in more reverence, & honour, than otherwise they would, if they were called by bare & naked names only. But notwithstanding either this that hath been said, or any thing else that can be said herein, there are some wayward spirits lately revived, who held the same names to be mere Antichristian, blasphemous and wicked, and such as at any hand a Minister of the Gospel ought not to be called by. But whereas they hold them to be Antichristian, I hold them to be Christian names, and given by Christian Princes to the ennobling and garnishing of their offices, functions, and callings, which doubtless is a glory to God deny it who will, or who can. And therefore in conclusion I say, that Bishops though not by the law of God, yet by the positive law, donation, and gifture of Christian Princes, may lawfully assume the said titles, and names to them for the causes before cited. And therefore these names and titles being mere indifferent, and not derogating from the glory of God, but rather making for the same, they are not of any wise, sober, or faithful Christian, neither to be inveighed against nor yet to be in any respect disliked being used as before. And thus much of the names and titles of Bishops.  Theodo. 
May Bishops exercise temporal authority together with Ecclesiastical, and may they be justices of peace, justices of Quorum, justices of Assizes, Ewer, Determiner, and the like, or may they as Capital judges give desinytive sentence of life and death upon malefactors and others, that by the judicial law of man have deserved to die?  Amphil. 
There is neither of the callings temporal, nor ecclesiastical, but it requireth a whole and perfect man, to execute the same. And if there were never found any one man yet so perfect, as could thoroughly, and absolutely perform his office in either of the callings temporal or ecclesiastical, much less can there ever one man be found, that is able to discharge them both. It is hard therefore that these two callings should concur in one man. This is as though a man having an importable burden already upon his back, should yet have an other almost as burdenous urged upon him. And therefore as it were absurd to see a temporal magistrate mount into the pulpit, preach the word, and minister the sacraments so absurd it is to see an ecclesiastical magistrate exercise the authority temporal, and to give sentence condemnatory of life, & death, upon any criminous person, which properly belongeth to the temporal power. Besides, it is a great discredit to the temporal magistrate, because it may be thought that they are not wise nor politic enough to execute their office, nor discharge their duties without the aid, and assistance of the other. And which is more it hindereth them from the discharge of their duties in their own calling, for it is written, no man can serve two masters, but either he must betray the one or the other. When the woman taken in adultery was apprehended, and brought unto Christ, he refused to give judgement of her, and yet it was a matter in effect ecclesiastical, & appertained to an ecclesiastical judge. Then what ought they to do in matters mere civil? Again our saviour Christ, when the young man requested him to divide the inheritance betwixt his brother, & him, refused the same saying, Quis me constituit judicem inter vos? Who made me a judge or a divider betwixt you. Whereby appeareth how far ecclesiastical persons ought to be from having to do, with temporal matters. But whereas they say the bishops of Dnalgne do exercise temporal authority, and do it as judges capital, giving sentence condemnatory of life, and death, it is very untrue otherwise than thus, to be present at the same, & to have a consultative exhortative, or consentative voice only. Which use me thinks is very good and laudable in my judgement. For whereas the temporal magistrates not understanding in every point the depth of God's law if they should do any thing either against the same, or the law of a good conscience, they might inform them thereof, that all things might be done to the glory of God, the comfort of the poor members of Christ jesus, and the benefit of the common wealth.  Theodo. 
What fashion of apparel do the pastors, and Ministers wear usually in their common affairs?  Amphil. 
The same fashion that others do for the most part, but yet decente, and comely, observing in every point a decorum. But as others wear their attire, some of this colour, some of that, some of this thing, some of that, so they commonly wear all their apparel, at least the exterior part of black colour, which as you know is a good, grave, sad, and ancient colour. And yet notwithstanding herein some of them (I speak not of all) are much to be blamed, in that they cannot content themselves with common, and usual fashions, but they must chop and change every day with the world. Yea some of them are as fond in excogitating devising and inventing of new fashions every day, & in wearing the same, as the veriest Roister of them all. And as they are faulty in this respect, so are they herein to be blamed, in that they cannot content themselves with cloth though never so excellent, but they must wear silks, velvets, satins, damasks, grograms, taffetas, and the like. I speak not against those that are in authority for wearing of these things (for they both may, and in some respects ought to wear them for the dignifying of their offices and callings, which otherwise might grow into contempt) but against those that be mean pastors, and Ministers, that flaunt it out in their satin doblets, taffeta doblets, silk hosen, guarded gowns, cloaks, and the like. Alas how should they rebuke pride, and excess in others, who are as faulty therein as the rest? Therefore said Cato very well, Quae culpare soles, ea tu ne feceris ipse▪ for sayeth he, Turpe est doctori, cum culpa redarguit ipsum. Which is, those things which thou blamest in others, see that thou thyself be not guilty in the same, for it is a foul blemish and a great shame and discredit, when that evil which thou reprovest in an other, is apparent in thyself. For in so doing, a man reprehendeth as well himself as others, is a hindrance to the course of the Gospel, and what he buildeth with one hand, he pulleth down with the other. Christ jesus the great pastor of the sheep was himself contented to go daily in one poor coat, being knit, or woven all over without seem, as the manner of the Palistinians' is to this day. This me think was but a simple cote in the eye of the world, and yet Christ jesus thought it precious enough. Samuel was accustomed to walk in an old gown girded to him with a thong. Elias and Elizeus in a mantel, john the baptist in camels hair with a girdle of a skin about his loins. The apostle Paul with a poor cloak, and the like, whereby appeareth, how far a minister of the Gospel ought to be from pride, and worldly vanity, observing the rules of christian sobriety, as well in apparel, as in all things else, knowing that he is as a city set upon an hill, and as a candle set upon a candlestick to give light, and shine to all the whole church of God. Therefore saith Christ: Sic luceat lux vestra coram hominibus, etc. Let your light so shine before men, that they seeing your good works, may glorify your father which is in heaven: which God grant we may all do.  Theod. 
Have they no other kind of apparel different from the common sort of men?  Amphil. 
Yes marry have they. They have other attire more proper, and peculiar unto them (in respect of their functions and offices) as cap, tippet, surplice, and the like. These they wear, not commonly, or altogether, but in especial when they are occupied in, or about the execution of their offices and callings, to this ennd end purpose, that there may be a difference betwixt them, and the common sort of people, and that the one may be distinct from the other by this outward note or mark.  Theodo. 
Is it of necessity than required, that the Pastors and Ministers of the word, should be distincted from other people, by any several kind of attire?  Amphil. 
It is not required as of necessity, but thought meet and convenient to be used for a decency, and comeliness in the Church of God. But notwithstanding the chiefest thing whereby a pastor or minister ought to be known from the common, & vulgar sort of people is, the preaching of the word of God, the administration of the sacraments, the execution of ecclesiastical discipline, and other censures of the Church, and withal his integrity of life, and soundness of conversation in every respect. These are the true notes, and marks whereby a Minister of the Gospel ought to be known and distincted from the other common sort of people. And yet though these be the chiefest notes whereby they are distinct from others of the temporalty and laity, yet are they not the only notes, or marks, for they are known and discerned from others also, by exterior habit, and attire, as namely by cap, tippet, surplice, and such like: That as the first doth distinguish them from others, whilst they are exercised about the same, (for who is so doltish that seeing a man preach, minister the sacraments, & execute other ecclesiastical censures of the church, that will not judge him to be a Minister of the Gospel?) so the other notes of apparel (the surplice except) may make a difference, and distinguish them from others of the laity abroad. To this end, that the reverence which is due to a good pastor, or minister of the Gospel may be given unto them. For as the Apostle saith, those elders that rule well, are worthy of double honour.  Theod. 
But I have heard great disputation and reasoning pro & contra, to and fro, that the pastors and ministers of the Gospel, ought not to be dissevered from the common sort of people, by any distinct kind of apparel, but rather by sounding the lords voice on high, by ministering the sacraments, and the like, what say you to the same?  Amphil. 
Indeed there are some I confess, that are of that opinion, and they bring in the example of Saul, inquiring of Samuel for the fears house, inferring that the Prophet was not distinct from other common people in his attire, for than Saul should easily have known him by the same. And the example of the damosel, that spoke to Peter, inferring that whereas the maid said, Thy speech bewrayeth thee, if he had been distinct from others in attire, or outward apparel, she would then have said, Thy apparel showeth thee to be such a fellow. These with the like examples they pretend to prove that pastors and Ministers are not to be discerned and known from the lay people, by any kind of apparel. But as I will not say that they are to be known, and discerned from others by apparel or habit only, (but rather by the lifting up of their voices like Trumpetes as saith the Prophet) so I will not deny the same to be no note or mark at all to know a Pastor or Minister of the Gospel by from others of the temporalty, and laity. And truly for my part, I see no great inconvenience, if they be by a certain kind of decente habit (commanded by a Christian Prince) known and discerned from others. Yet some more curious than wise, before they would wear any distinct kind of apparel from others, they have rather chosen to render up both linings, goods, families, and all, leaving their flocks to the mouth of the wolves.  Theod. 
Is it lawful for a minister of th● Gospel to wear a surplice, a tippet or forked cap, and the like kind of attire?  Amphil. 
As they are commanded by the Pope the great Antichrist of the world, they ought not to wear them, but as they be commanded, and enjoined by a Christian Prince, they may wear them without scruple of conscience. But if they should repose any religion, holiness or sanctimony in them, as the doting Papists do, than do they grievously offend, but wearing them as things mere indifferent (although it be controversial whether they be things indifferent or not) I see no cause why they may not use them.  Theod. 
From whence came these garments can you tell, from Rome, or from whence else?  Amphil. 
The most hold that they came first from Rome, the poison of all the world, & most likely they did so, but other some searching the same more narrowly, do hold that they came not from Rome, but rather from Grecia, which from the beginning for the most part, hath ever been contrary to the Church of Rome. But from whence soever they came it skilleth not much, for being mere indifferent, they may be worn or not worn without offence, according to the pleasure of the Prince, as things which of themselves be not evil, nor cannot hurt, except they be abused.  Theod. 
Notwithstanding they hold this for a maxim, that in as much as they came first from the Papists, and have of them been idolatrously abused, that therefore they are not, nor ought not to be used of any true pastors, or Ministers of the Gospel. Is this their assumption true, or not?  Amph. 
It is no good reason to say such a thing came from the Papists, ergo it is nought. For we read that the Devils confessed jesus Christ to be the son of God, doth it follow therefore that the same profession is naught, because a wicked creature uttered the same? All things are therefore to be examined, whether the abuse consist in the things themselves, or in others that abuse them. Which being found out, let the abuses be removed, and the things remain still. A wicked man may speak good words, do good works before the world, (but because they want the oil of faith to souple them withal, they are not good works before the Lord) and may ordain a good thing which may serve to good ends, and purposes. And because the same hath afterward been abused, shall the thing itself therefore be quite saken away? No, take away the abuse, let the thing remain still, as it may very well without any offence, except to them, quibus omnia dantur scandalo, to whom all things are offence. And further, if these presicians would have all things removed out of the Church which have been abused to Idolatry, than must they pull down Churches, (for what hath been abused more to Idolatry and superstition?) pulpits, bells, and what not. Than must they take away the use of bread and wine, not only from the church, but also from the use of man in this life, because the same was abused to most shame full idolatry, in being dedicated to Ceres, and Bacchus, two stinking Idols of the Gentiles. Than must they take away not only the Epistles, and Gospels, but also the whole volume of the holy scriptures, because the Papists abused them to idolatry. By all which reasons with infinite the like, it manifestly appeareth, that many things which have been instituted by Idolaters, or by them abused to Idolatry, may be applied to good uses, and may serve to good ends, the abuses being taken away. Yet would I not that any thing that hath been idolatrously abused by the papists, should be retained in the churches of Christians, if by any means they might be removed, and better put in place.  Theodo. 
Is the wearing of these garments a thing mere indifferent, or not? for some hold it is, some hold it is not?  Amph. 
It is a thing without all controversy mere indifferent, for whatsoever gods word neither expressly commandeth, neither directly forbiddeth, nor which bindeth not the conscience of a christian man, is a thing mere indifferent to be used, or not to be used, as the present state of the church, & time requireth. But it is certain that the wearing of this kind of attire is not expressly commanded in the word of God, nor directly forbid by the same, & therefore is mere indifferent, and may be used, or not used without burden of conscience, as the present state of time shall require. And therefore seeing they be things indifferent, I would wish every wise christian to tolerate the same, being certain that he is neither better nor worse, for wearing or not wearing of them.  Theod. 
Being things as you say mere indifferent, may any man lawfully refuse the wearing of them against the commandment of his prince, whom next under God he ought to obey?  Amphil. 
Every man is bound in conscience before God to obey his prince in all things, yea in things directly contrary to true godliness he is bound to show this obedience (but not to commit the evil) namely to submit himself life, lands, livings, or else whatsoever he hath to the will of his Princes, rather than to disobey. If this obedience than be due to Princes in matters, contrary to true godliness, what obedience than is due to them in matters of small weight, of small importance, and mere trifles as these garments be, judge you? He that disobeyeth the commandment of his Prince, disobeyeth the commandment of God, and therefore would God all Ecclesiastical persons that stand so much upon these small points, that they break the common unity, & band of charity in the church of God, would now at the last qualify themselves, show obedience to Prince's laws, and fall to preaching of Christ jesus truly, that his kingdom might daily be increased, their consciences discharged, and the Church edified, which Christ jesus hath bought with the shedding of his precious heart blood.  Theod. 
May a pastor, or a Minister of the Gospel forsake his flock, and refuse his charge for the wearing of a surplice, a cap, tippet, or the like, as many have done of late days, who being enforced to wear these garments, have given up their livings, and forsaken all?  Amphil. 
Those that for the wearing of these garments, being but the inventions, the traditions, the rites, the ceremonies, the ordinances & constitutions of man, will leave their flocks, and give over their charges, not caring what become of the same, do show themselves to be no true shepherds, but such as Christ speaketh of, that when they see the Wolf coming will fly away, leaving their flock to the slaughter of the greedy wolf. They give evident demonstration also, that they are not such as the holy Ghost hath made overseers over their flock, but rather such as being possessed with the spirit of pride and ambition, have intruded themselves, to the destruction of their flock. If they were such good shepherds as they ought to be, and so loving to their flock, they would rather give their life for their sheep if need required, than to run from them, leaving them to the bloody teeth of the merciless wolves. Is he a good shepherd that watcheth daily upon his flock, or he that runs from them for every light trifle? I think we would count him a very negligent shepherd. And shall we think him a diligent, or a good pastor, and one that would give his life for his sheep, as a good pastor should do, that for such trifles will estrang himself from his flock for ever? Therefore I beseech God to give them grace to look to their charges, and to let the other trifles alone, being no part of our salvation or damnation.  Theod. 
But they say they refuse the wearing of these garments, because they are offensive to the godly, a scandal to the weak brethren, a hindrance to many in coming to the Gospel, & an induration to the papists hardening their hearts, in hope that their trumpery will once come in again to their singular comfort.  Amphil. 
It is an old saying. Better a bad excuse, than none at all. And truly it seemeth they are driven to the wall, and sore graveled, that will fly to these simple shifts. But whatsoever they say or affirm, certain it is, that offensive to the godly they cannot be, who have already learned to distinguish betwixt the things abused, and the abuses themselves. And who know also how to use things mere indifferent to good ends, and purposes. And therefore this question thus I shut up in few words, that the wearing of these garments being commanded by a Christian Prince, is not offensive, or scandalous to any good Christians, and to the other it mattereth not what it be. For they are such as the Lord hath cast off into a reprobate sense, and prejudicate opinion, abusing all things, even the truth itself to their own destruction for ever except they repent, which I pray God they may do, if it be his blessed will.  Theodo. 
I pray you why do they wear white in their surplice, rather than any other colour? and why a forked cap rather than a round one, for the Papists (if they were the authors of these garments) have their mysteries, their figures, & their representations in all things. Wherefore I desire to know your judgement herein.  Amphil. 
You say the truth, for the Papists have their mysteries in all things after their manner. Therefore thus they say that white doth signify holiness, innocency, & all kind of integrity, putting them in mind what they ought to be in this life, and representeth unto them the beatitude, the felicity, and happiness of the life to come. And this they prove ab exemplis apparitionum, from the example of apparitions and visions, in that angels, and celestial creatures have ever appeared in the same colour of white. Therefore forsooth they must wear white apparel. The cornered cap say these mysterious fellows doth signify, and represent the whole monarchy of the world, East, West, North, & South, the government whereof standeth upon them, as the cap doth upon their heads. The gown say they doth signify the plenary power which they have to do all things. And therefore none but the Pope, or he with whom he dispenseth, may wear the same every where, because none have plenariam potestatem plenary power in every place, but (Beelzebub) the Pope. Yet the Ministers saith he, may wear them in their Churches, & in their own jurisdictions ', because therein they have full power from him. Thus foolishly do they deceive themselves with vain shows, shadows, and imaginations, forged in the mint of their own brains to the destruction of many. But who is he, that because these sottish Papists have and do grievously abuse these things, will therefore have them clean removed? If all things that have been abused should be removed because of the abuse, than should we have nothing left to the supply of our necessities, neither meat, drink, nor cloth for our bodies, neither yet (which is more) the word of God, the spiritual food of our souls, nor any thing else almost. For what thing is there in the whole universal world, that either by one Heretic or other hath not been abused? Let us therefore take the abuses away, and the things may well remain still. For may not we christians use these things which the wicked Papists have abused to good ends, uses, and purposes? I see no reason to the contrary. And therefore in conclusion I beseech the Lord that we may all agree together in one truth, and not to divide ourselves, one from another for trifles, making schisms, ruptures, breaches, and factions in the church of God, where we ought to nourish peace, unity, concord, brotherly love, amity, and friendship, one amongst an other. And seeing we do all agree together, and jump in one truth, having all one God our father, one Lord jesus Christ our saviour, one holy spirit of adoption, one price of redemption, one faith, one hope, one baptism, and one and the same inheritance in the kingdom of heaven, Let us therefore agree together in these external shadows, ceremonies, and rites. For is it not a shame to agree about the marrow, and to strive about the bone? to contend about the kernel, & to vary about the shell? to agree in the truth, and to brabble for the shadow? Let us consider that this contention of ours among ourselves, doth hinder the course of the Gospel from taking such deep root in the hearts of the hearers, as otherwise it would do. And thus for this time brother Theodorus, we will break off our talk concerning this matter, until it please God that we may meet again. Which if it please God we do, I promise you in an other work to discourse of the same more at large. In the mean time let us give ourselves to fasiing, and prayer, most humbly beseeching his excellent majesty to bless our noble Queen, and to keep her grace as the apple of his eye from all her foes, to maintain his word, and gospel amongst us, to plant unity, and concord within our walls, to increase our faith, to grant us true and unfeigned repentance for our sins, and in the end eternal life in the kingdom of heaven, thorough the precious death, passion, bloodshedding, and obedience of Christ jesus our Lord, and only saviour, to whom with the father and the holy ghost, one true, and immortal God, be all honour, praise, power, empire, and dominion throughout all congregations for evermore. And thus brother Theodorus I bid you farewell in the Lord, till I do see you again.  Theodo. 
And I you also good brother Amphilogus, beseeching the Lord that if we meet not upon earth, we may meet yet in the kingdom of heaven, there to rest in perfect felicity for ever.  Amphil. 
The Lord grant it for his mercy's sake. Amen.  
FINIS.   

LONDON Printed by Roger Ward for William Wright, and are to be sold at his shop joining to Saint Mildred's Church in the Poultry, being the middle shop in the row. 1583.