A very familiar & fruitful exposition of the xii Articles of the christian faith contained in the common creed, called the Apostles Crede, made in dialoges, wherein thou moist learn all things necessary to be believed▪ Compiled by Peter viret a french man & translated in to english Peter Viret unto the faithful reader grace and peace from our Lord jesus Christ. About three or four years passed at the desire of certain good persons I had enterprised to write a certain familiar exposition upon the creed of the Apostles, containing the articles of the faith and christian religion. And upon the prayer of our Lord jesus Christ. And likewise upon the commandments, which be the sum of all the law of God, following this purpose, I have already begun to write upon the creed and that for divers causes, for notwithstanding that divers men of knowledge have already traveled about this matter, as well in the latin, as in the french: yet nevertheless I do consider that the darkness of error and ignorance hath been so great upon the earth that it is very hard and dificulte unto the poor, blind, and ignorant to comprehend the truth of God, and know the darkness in the which they have been, and yet be, although that they which desy2re to advance the glory of God, do inform themselves, by all means to draw them unto the understanding and knowledge of his word. Yet I do see every day we confess all with the mougth one self faith and religion, and nevertheless the greatest part of them which willbe holden for christians, deny by their works that which they confess with their mouths, for this cause have I right willingly taken the pain to declare sumthinge more largli, and familiarly, the creed of the Apostles than other have done, which have written before me, for to show by lively reasons unto the superstitious christians, and idolators, how they do and believe all contrary to the faith which with their mouths they confess, to the end they may learn to believe with the heart that which they confess with their mouths and that the Lord with good right do not reprove them of that, the which he did accuse the hypocrites which were among the old people of Israel, saying, these people honour me with their lips, & draw near unto me with their mouths but their hearts be very far from me, and therefore do they honour me in vain, teaching the doctrines and co●maundementes of men. And to avoid this reprove, I have willingly given occasion the better to consider the sense and understanding of the words of this confession, and by the same to show the errors and abuses, by the which the christianity is all corrupted to be purged & made clean, & because that they will not, or can not take the leisure to read the holy scriptures, or else have not the understanding to comprehend them, I have willingly showed unto the simple and ignorant people, that if they haddenone other scripture, but the confession of the faith, the which they do use every day in their creed they have enough to make them inexcusable before God, & to learn to know the errors, and false opinions in the which they have be held, in case they did well understand that which they do confess. These be the principal causes, that hath moved me to make this trectise, the which hath line long time among my writings, because I did abide to have had leisure to have made an end of the rest, the which I was willing to have set forth in this same treatise. Nevertheless in asmuch as this is all ready finished, and that there is so moche time gotten it doth seem unto me not to be evil to set forward that which did serve to no purpose in my study for to edify & instruct always more and more the poor ignorants unto the which I have most principal regard if I shall know that my labour, and this manner of proceeding may profit unto any, I shall when it shall please God to give me time & opportunity proceed and set forth the rest. ¶ In this first dialogue is showed how the Sovereign goodness & felicity of man lieth in the knowledge of God, & in the justification by the faith in jesus christ. ¶ The names of the two speakers. ❧ Phylype. ❧ nathanael. PHyllype. I can not enough marvel when I do considre the nature and condition of men. Nathanael. Wherefore sayest thou that? Phylip- Because that I do see that all men have one desire & one self will and mind, yet nevertheless there is nothing more contrary than the desires and wills of men after such sort that with great difficulty may be found two that be of one self accord. nathanael. How can that be possible to be found among men as thou dost say? for thou haste holden me two arguments the Contrariety and unity of human affections. which be contrary and repungnaunt the one to the other, for how can men be all of one self will and of a contrary will, and all of one accord being all in discord. Phy. I think thou dost not doubt of the diversity & contrariety of affections wills & human opinions, for there is nothing more evident, wherefore it sufficeth me to show unto the the unity of the desires and wills that is between them. Natha. When thou hast proved me that, I shall hold the other for all together proved, for the daily experience doth bear witness hereof. Phy. I will that thyself be judge of the cause, wherefore I do ask the if there be any man upon the earth which doth not desire and hath not a great will to be rich The common desire of alm● to come to honour to live in pleasure & rest and to be very happy. Natha. in that there is no doubt. Phy. Mine intent is already proved for thou dost see the unity of the hearts that is between them. Natha. It is true but from whence then cometh that contrariety: or how can that proceed of that unity? Phy. All the fault doth come of this, that although all do pretend unto one self end, nevertheless they can not learn the cunning nor the way to come unto it. Natha. Thou wilt then say that the will is in all men, but the power and the mean doth fail them. Phy. We see the thing at our eye. Natha. And what is the cause. Phy. The hardness and ignorance of the human understanding for one esteemeth him rich & veri happy that hath great treasures of gold, silver, pearls, & precious men's opinions of the soverning goodness. stones, & that hath his garners houses & sellers well filled, which hath goodli clothing & may be veri sumptuous & pompiously apparelled which is possessor of great countries lands & lordships, Na. There is nothing in all the world that men esteem so much as that which thou speakest of. And that after such sort that every one would have that. Phy. And therefore of this accord cometh this great discord that is among men for The rote of dissension along men. because that all would have it, and do not care how so they may obtain it, one taking one way & means, & an other taketh an other way clean contrary, wherefore it is impossible that one should not the wrong & Injury to an other, and from thence doth spring no small envious hatreds, enmites and dissensions. Na. The thing is even as thou sayest. Phy. admit that a man had obtained all this, might he therefore think himself very happy. Nata. None can be truli taken for happy in this mortal life, which is altogether full of miseries, and in the which the most rich be the most miserable & wretched for they have more thought care, trouble, and annoyances, and be in more greater dangers than any other, & it is most often seen that, that which they have, is no more theirs, than that which they have not, for because them selves most often either dare not, or can not use them but let us take the case that they should receive certain commodities of them in this life. Yet be they assured that all their riches shall fail them at their need and greatest necessity, for they shall not bear them with them, nor yet shall they deliver them from death nor from the judgement of God but shall leave them to such as shall never run them thank, but shall bring them unto ruin & shall have as much pain and misery in the spending, as they had in the gathering. Phy. That thou haste said is very common and clear, but I do consydre an other thing that is, that man for all these things hath not here so much occasion to glory in himself, or to think himself very happy as The beasts are more happy than carnal men. the bruit beasts, for they have all this better than man, and have more voluptuous pleasures in this world than he, if we do esteem voluptuous pleasures the carnal pleasures of this world, the philosophors esteemed him rich which was content. Then according to this definition the beasts be richer then men, for they be content with that they have. But man is never content, no though he had the heaven and the earth, to what purpose serveth him then his gold and silver? the beasts have none nor care not for it, nor yet have no need of it And if we must esteem him rich & happy that hath abundance we must give that honour unto the earth the which hath more than all men in the world. And to the which they must come to beg it making it courtly courtelye with long travail and great diligence in tillage who then ought to be esteemed most rich? The earth that giveth all or the men that receive of her. nathanael. He that giveth is more happy and rich than he that taketh for the one appertaineth unto great princes and Lords, and the other unto wretches and fylbelyes. But now adays we have no regard unto that rule but do esteem it more happy to take then to give. And therefore they be esteemed most rich and happy that most receiveth of the earth. Phy. And yet by this reckoning shall the beasts be richer then men, for take the most riches that thou wilt & give unto him meadows, pastors, and vines, Castles, houses, and palaces, and all that his heart can desire. What hath he yet more than the beasts? For if thou wilt say lodgings they have all their repairs, some to Caves other to bushes, & other to their ●eastes, where they take all sleep and rest in much more quietness than men, and much better contented then men be with their habitations, And it we must speak of lands and possessions the beasts have it without limities or borders, for they have the hills, & valeis forests, & plains, the air & waters, at their commandment, with less trouble pain and labour than man, for though man have great meadows yet easeth he no hay, and though he have great fills and viniyardes, yet can he eat but his fill, and can have but his life, no more than the beasts of the field, which surmounteth man in felicity, in asmuch as they get their lynynges with more corporal pleasures. If we shall come to apparel there is no comparison, for of necessity the Beasts must cloth men, which should be all naked, except they did borrow their apparel of them, and did cloth yourselves with their skynes hear, and wools there is no difference but that men have more travail to cloth themselves because they be not content with the gifts and works of nature, as the beasts be, but will be disguised & counterfeit news by their arts and occupations, but not without great sweat. And when they have done all that they can possible do, yet can they not exceed or surmount the works of nature that be in the beasts and flowers in the field, for there is neither courtier nor lady, nor damsel that is better painted, nor so well dressed or apparelled, as a rose, a lily, or as the flower that the earth bringeth forth, nor as the marterns, Ostriges, Peacock's, & other such like Beasts and fowls, and yet do they much glory when they may be decked and trimned with their hear skins and feathers. nathanael. Yea and yet buy them very dear. Phy, Thou mayst then well know what is the misery of man, even in the the same wherein he doth esteem his most greatest felicity to lie. Thou mayest also understand how that of this evil opinion doth spring so many other, the which do put such troubles between men and doth bring them in such franiseiss that they can not hold themselves with in the limits of nature, but do rather worse than the brute beasts, and yet with all their travail can not have so much rest and voluptuous pleasures as they. Wherefore I do conclude that if man were not borne unto other Beatitude and Felicity then doth lie in riches and worldly pleasures, that he were in far worse condition than the brute beasts and that he should be much more happy to be a swine, a snail, a fish, a bird, or some other kind of beasts then to be a man. Nata. I am of thine opinion and am much abashed that the christians do not well know and consider this, and how that they run so mad after these goods of the earth and worldly lusts: saying that the paynims and heathen even by the natural light given them of God have well known & have condemned the Epicures, which put the sovereign goodness of man in voluptuousness. Phy. And yet they which did condemn the Epicures albeit they had a better opinion than they, yet could not they them selves Epicures. find the path and right way for to come unto this sovereign goodness, unto the which they did pretend to conduct and lead other for some of them did judge that this sovereign goodness could not be but in him that was fully endued with the goods of fortune of the body and of the soul, which to find in any one man it were very hard. And by this doctrine the prophets Three kinds of goodness. Apostles, and true children of God should not be very happy and blessed, and the doctrine of jesus Christ should not be true, which doth pronounce happy and blessed, the poor in spirit, the afflicted and persecuted for righteousness sake, and they which have hunger thriste, and which weep and morn. Na. Therefore there be other that have put Math. v. Luke. vi. the sovereign goodness of man in virtue. Phy. Those have well perceived and felt the inconveniences which I have before touched, but for all that they could not hit the whit, for they did never well understand what was the true vertu that might lead unto that sovereign goodness, and with great pain did they only attain unto the shadow and could not find the very right way The sovereign goodness of men. to lead them for they did alway leave a man unto himself, the which can in no wise find that same sovereign goodness, except he go out of himself. Natha. where wilt thou then that he shall seek it. Phylippe. Out of himself and of all creatures. Nata. Thou wilt then that he go seek it in God. Phyly. In whom should he find it but in him, in whom not only it is but is himself that same sovereign goodness, for thou dost know well that man is infasiable and that he can never be content and satisfied except he have all And though he had the heaven and the earth the sea, and all that is contained in them, yet should he not be satisfied and filled. For he should not thereby have all, for he can not have all except he have God to whom all things pertain and be his own, in the which only he may be satisfied and perfect according to the testimony of the prophet saying, then Psal. xvi. shall I be filled when thy glory appeareth for without him what may we find, but unhappiness, sin, Death, malediction, damnation & hell. Nata. I believe that now thou hast it the white, but the hardest is yet to do for it doth not suffice to know unto what plac & end we ought to go, nor yet in what haven or port we desire to arrive, except we know the mean way to come unto it, wherefore I desire much that if thou know it that thou wilt teach it me. Phy. It is necessary that he know it that should teach it unto other, and there is none that can know it but he that hath been there and gone the journey. Natha. There is then no living man that can know it, Phy. And therefore must we have recourse The way to come to soveraing goodness. unto God, which will give us a guide to lead us and hath all ready given us one which can never go out of the way, that is jesus Christ his sun our sovereign master which is come down from heaven for to learn us the way, and bring us thither, Mat. xxiii. xi. for as he himself witnesseth that none can ascend up into heaven, but he that is come john. iii. john. ix. john. i. The lader of jacob. Gene. xxviii. down from heaven, namely the son of man that is in heaven, none can come unto my father but b●me, I am the gate the door, the wai the truth and the light, he is the true ladder that jacob saw standing upon the earth & reached up to heaven. The angels of God going up & down upon it, and the Lord god leaning upon it, but for to make us the way shorter, plainer, & more esie he hath brought Deut. iii. Rom. i. us the heavens with himself, and that same sovereign goodness in such sort, that we need not to pass the seas nor the mountains, nor to go any long way or journey to come unto it, & need not to go out of ourselves, Ephe. iiii. Colo. iii. Math. three Luke. xvii. but of our old adam, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and the kingdom of God is within us, we have the word near us & in our mouths if we can know it. Na. How then Phy. The master which is descended from heaven, and that sovereign doctor which the celestial father hath sent unto us doth teach us this science in two words saying. This is the life everlasting. That they do knowledge the one only true God, and him whom he hath sent jesus Christ. Na. Then wilt knowledge of God. then by that conclude that the sovereign goodness of man, and his true felicity and beatitude, and the mean to unite and knit all men in one self heart, and one very will is to know God by jesus Christ his son. Phy. Thou concludest very well. Nata. If there need none other thing at the lest, all the christians should be very happy for they do all know God and jesus Christ their Saviour, but it is nevertheless marvel that there is so little unity among them, saying they have all that knowledge. Phy. If they had that knowledge without doubt they should be all of one accord & should be very happy and blessed, but there be very few that hath that knowledge as it should be had. Nata. Is there them. two. sorts, to know God? Phy. Even as there is two sorts to believe. Two sorts to know and believe God. For to believe in God, and know God, cometh all to one. saint james doth say that the devils believe and tremble before the majesty of God. But they believe not in ●mes. two. such sort, as the faithful children of God do. They believe there is a God, and do fear him, but not as the good child feareth his father, but as an evil doer 〈…〉 judge notwithstanding also they do believe there is one God, yet believe they not God is their God, that is to say, that he is their saviour and father, ready, benign favourable and merciful, and that he will show unto them his grace and mercy thorough his son jesus Christ, for so is the nature of God, & his proper office. And he that knoweth him not so, knoweth him not to be his God, but doth hold him as a cruel tyrant the which he doth more fear than love, for we can not know him to be other without jesus Christ, because that the evil conscience which doth feel itself culpable of his Iudgm●t causeth him so to repute him, wherefore it is impossible that any should have the true knowledge of God, such as is required to come unto this sovereign goodness, but he that hath him in contemplation, not in himself nor in him The true knowledge of God to be considered barely, & in his majesty, nor in any other habit then in this humane flesh which he hath put on by his soone jesus Christ, in the which he hath declared his goodness, love, mercy, and tavoure, towards man, and it is not possible that he that knoweth him otherwise should love him, if he love him not, he can not willingly honour him ●or yet promp●lye and readily obey him because the knowledge that he hath is to much unperfect, for this is the true knowledge that doth move and induce man to honour him. Natha. And what is the true way and manner to honour God, will he that we offer unto him, bread, wine, candles, or money, calves, sheep, rams, or other such like things? Phy. That were a great blasphemy & sacrilege to have such an opinion of God as to think that he which hath made all things of whose hand we receive all, which is immortal, incorruptible, and in himself whole and perfect, should need or take pleasure i Timo. two. in these corruptible things which he hath given us for the sustenance of our poor mortal bodies. Natha. How wilt thou then that man shall psal. Cxxxv. Gene. i Psal. xv serve God? And with what offering will he that we present him? Philip. God which hath made the sun, the moon, and the sters, what need hath he of our light, he which only is rich and perfect, what need hath he of our richesse, the which he himself hath given unto us, is he as a little child, which must be appeased with an apple, or as a mortal or corruptilbe man taking pleasure in caducte and transitory things as men do? Natha. What is it then that man may give unto him? Phi. He requireth not that man should give him any thing, but that he should receive of him for the nature of God is) which our sovereign Lord is) not to take but for to give, & do good unto all. Natha. Wherewith shall man then serve him. Phi. He can do no other service unto God, then doth the poor beggar, blind, sore, lame, and lazar, and being all together unprofitable, asking his alms at the gate of a king, or as an evil doer, thief, traitor, and robber, asking his pardon. Natha. Man then hath no great occasion to glory in his own merits. Phy. And yet less. Nathana. Can man do nothing else? Phy. He neither can nor may do that without the grace of god and his holy spirit do lead and conduct him to the end he should have no matter wherein to glory, but in God only. Natha. That is not very uneasy to do, nor there is no man unto whom it should not be easy enough to serve him, saying we must but ask and beg. Phy. It is more hard than it seem the for albeit that the words seem very plain and easy, nevertheless they comprehend great things, the which surmount the human power Natha. Expound me then those things. Phy. first they do contain the invoucation, & calling upon the name of God, which is the most greatest and most singular honour that we can do unto him. Natha. What is there more. Phy. We can not understand this invocation without faith for it is written, who so ever calleth upon the name of the Lord shallbe saved. But how shall he call upon him, in whom he hath not believed, it doth then follow, that man can not call upon God rightly without trusteing in him, & be fully assured of his goodness & good will towards him, Natha. That is very certain. Phylyp. Then as this same trust in God incite the and induce the giving of thanks. man to call upon his name, and pray unto him in all necessities, even so of the other part doth it move and induce by the same to give thanks for all the benefits which he receiveth of him, knowledging that all goodness proceedeth of him, and that without him man is nothing. Here is then an other part of the invocation and calling upon the name of God the which containeth the obeisance or obedience, which we own unto his holy will, which is a manner of action of graces or giving of thanks, for from whence doth proceed such obeisance, and all the good works which the faithful can do in the honour of God, then from the love which he doth bear unto him, and it can not be love without the knowledge of him that is beloved this love than proceedeth of the knowledge the which he hath of God, & of his graces and benefits which doth incite us patiently to put our trust all wholly in him to abide & look for all at his hand and to serve and honour him in all that we may know● to be pleasing and acceptable unto him. Natha. True serving of God lieth in faith By all that I can comprehend and understand all the service of God then lieth in faith Phy. She is the foundation and spring for without her it is impossible to please God, & so can our works not please God, except Hebr. xi. that first we be pleasant and agreeable unto him, for he doth not accept the work because of itself, but because of the person ●hat doth present it, and it is not unto him acceptable, but as the person is unto him acceptable. Natha. He hath then a respect and is an acceptor of persons, & yet it seemeth that the holy scripture saith the contrary. Phy. That which I do say is not contrary unto the places which thou so understandest, but thou shouldest understand that amongs the sons of men there is none, which of himself is acceptable Rom. ii●. Act. x. unto the celestial father, but only he of whom he hath said. This is my well-beloved son in whom I am well pleased. saying then that he only is pleasant, unto him it is not to be thought, that any work Math. xiii. can please him, but that which is done by him, for if we hated any person he could do nothing that might please us, and of the contrary part if we loved him, he could do nothing that might displease us but we would take all that he did in good part, if we will then please our celestial father, we must neither offer ourselves, nor none other thing to him, before we have made appointment with h●m, and he received us into his grace favour & love, & that can we not obtain except we take away the cause which hath put the hate and dissension between us and him that is to say, the sin which can not be defaced isaiah. iiii. justification Act. xv. Rom. vi. xii. i Cor. xii. Ephe. v. john. vi. xii. and taken away, but by the mean of jesus Christ. And therefore it is necessary for us to go unto him to be purged and made clean, and the mean to obtain this by him is the faith by the which our hert●s be purified and we justified, that is to say absolved, and declared and pronounced just before the judgement of God, because that by the same faith we be unite and conjoined with jesus Christ being all membres of his body, unto the which his membres he doth communicate all his goods, and i Cor. i. Ephe. two. Gala. two. The rote of ●● good works john. v. Rom. xi maketh us partakers of his obedience and righteousness, so that it serveth neither more nor less, then if it were our own proper, Inasmuche then as jesus Christ is in us and we in him, & that his righteousness is ours and liveth in us and dwelleth in our hearts by faith, and by his holy spirit, it is very certain that, that faith can not be idle without bringing forth good fruit, seeing them that he is the true vine, and good olive tree, upon the which we be planted and graffed it is impossible, but the fruit which we bear or bring forth, and the work which we do should not be to him acceptable because of the good rote out of the which they spring, and because the celestial father reknowledgeth the work of his son in us for whose love he doth bear the imperfection, which abideth all ways in our flesh during this mortal life, but it is clean contrary of the Infidels and reproved which can not be acceptable unto God, nor no works that they can do because they be without jesus Christ, without whom none can be beloved of the father. Nathana. I do understand now the cause why the holy scripture doth attribute the justification of man unto faith, and give it so great praises, and who so ever understood this point as thou haste declared it, should have no occasion to be so much offended with this doctrine, as some be, for they say, when the justification of faith is preached without Slander o● justification by faith. the works of the law, that they will abolish and put away good works. Phylype. They understand very evil, but that slander doth come of the doctrine of the Sophysters and hypocrites which hath learned men to put the wain before the oxen, (as the proverb goeth) & to build without foundation, wherefore when they should be reform and otherwise taught they do find it a new and strange doctrine because they have been nourished in such a contrary way. Natha. Tell me this some thing more clearly. The tree can not bear good fruit except Math. xii. it be first a good tree. And therefore the good fruit doth not make the tree good, but the good tree maketh the fruit good, but they will have the fruit before the tree, and will make the tree good by the fruit, which is impossible Natha. Thou speakest yet something darkly. Phy. Thou shalt have it more clearly. They will have righteousness in a man before it be in him, and will that he doth works of justice and righteousness, and by the same to be justified. But how shall he do the works of justice, except he himself be first just, and that can he not be but by the justice and righteousness of jesus Christ, and that can not he obtain but by faith wherefore with good right is the honour of justification given unto faith, saying that she is the rote and foundation of the same, and of all good works, the which proceedeth of the same rote. Nata. I understand this now welynoughe, but in as much as faith hath such virtue, declare unto me what faith is. Phy. faith is a certain and assured knowledge and a firm persuasion and trust of the love and mercy of God towards us for the love of jesus Christ his son. Natha. A man which will have this faith whole and perfect, what is he bound to believe. Phylip. All that is contained in the holy scriptures, but The sum of faith because that this doctrine of faith is ample and large it is drawn into a brief and short sum for the help & succour of the weakness and infirmity of the humane understanding, and the memory of the poor and simple people. Natha. What understandest thou by that short sum, is it the creed of the Apostles? Phy. It is the very same. Nathana. Wherefore is it called the Crede of the Apostles. Phy. Because it is a short sum of the doctrine apostolic, and a whole some containing in few words the principal points and articles of the faith and christian religion. Natha. I desire much that thou wouldest declare it unto me point by point, for it doth not suffice to can say it by heart and confess it with the mouth, speaking as the pies with out understanding what we do say. Phy. It is very certain that the confession of the mouth profiteth little except it proceed of faith from the heart. Nata. That understand I well, and therefore do I desire to have a more plain understanding, for how can I perfectly believe that which is contained therein without the understanding of it, for it is not possible that in those few words should be comprehended all the apostolic doctrine, but it containeth great matters, and many goodly points worthy to be well expounded and opened. Phylype Thou takest it not a miss, and saying the good desire that thou haste, I am very well content to satisfy the same, but now I have no convenient leisure, for it can not be so shortly done, wherefore thou shalt have a little patience unto anon, when I shall have a more convenient leisure, the better to satisfy thy desire. Nata. That is very reasonable, & reason doth require that I which would be taught take the time which seemeth to the most meet, but if thou ●arye long I will come & put the in remembrance. Phy. Thou shalt do well, and far thou well to our next meating, God conduct and bring the again shortly. ❧ In this second dialogue is declared the first part of the Crede of the Apostles, in the which is spoken of the trinity, and unity of God, and principally of the father, and of the propriety unto him distributed, and of the creation of all things, and what fruit we ought to bear. nathanael. I trust thou hast not forgotten the promise thou made unto me, & therefore I am come to put the in remembrance. Phy. If thou hadst not come I determined to have come to thee, but thou hast prevented me. Natha. The great desire that I have to here & understand the things that we have communed of together, hath inflamed and steered me forward. Phy. If thou have a great desire to hear. I have no less to expound, and confer with thee, for what communication may we devise more honest and profitable, or for better recreation then to common of our faith & religion and of the goodness & mercy of God toward us. Natha. There is no doubt and therefore I pray the begin to enter into the matter. Phy. The better to reduce all thing by order, recite first the Crede to the end that with fresh memory we may well consider that which it doth contain in general, and after we shall expound it by particulars. nathanael. I believe in God the father almighty maker of heaven and earth. And in jesus Christ his only son our Lord, which was conceived by the holy ghost, borne of the virgin marry, suffered under ponce , was crucified, dead, buried, & descended into hell, the third day he rose again from death, he ascended into heaven, & sitteth on the right hand of God the father almighty, from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the holy Ghost, the holy Catholic church the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins. The resurrection of the body and the life everlasting. Amen. Phy. The better to divide these matters for the help of the memory we will divide the creed all generally in four principal parts, & they of the four parts that shallbe most tedious & long we may divide where it shall seem unto us most meet for the plainer understanding, and the better to keep all things in memory. And in the first shallbe spoken of God in general of the person of the father, & of the creation of all things. In the second of jesus Christ our Lord and of our redemption. In the third of the holy Ghost. In the fourth of the church, & of the things unto her appertaining. Nata. This order shallbe very good, let us therefore come unto the first part, what understandest thou when thou sayest I believe. Phy. That I do put my whole confidence trust & hope What it is to b●●●ue. to him, in whom I believe, trusting in him with all my heart, abiding and looking to receive of him only, aid, succour, salvation, life, and all good things. Natha. Thou dost Psal. xiiii. then confess that thou trustest all wholly in him, and in none other. Phy. It is so, for it is true, that who so ever trusteth in him shall not be decevyed nor confounded, and I say I believe, because that none other can believe for me. Natha. It seemeth by thy words that thou wilt affirm that faith doth not serve but to him that hath it, & that it profiteth not to another but unto him whose it is. Phy. I deny In what the faith of other may profit not but the faith of other may serve for prayer unto God for me for my conversion and my sins, and for to present me unto him & ask of him my salvation, as we have example in the sick of the palsy, but if I have not faith also in myself, I can not receive it. Natha. What sayest thou then of them which forceth not to understand and know the doctrine of faith but doth suffice them to say I believe in the holy mother church, I believe that which the holy church believeth, albeit they know not what she believeth, and doth trust more in the faith of other, then in their own. Phy. The prophet hath learned me to speak and feel otherwise when he hath said, the just shall live by his faith, wherefore I do conclude, that even as I can not live by the soul and life an other, but of mine own, that also my soul can not live by the faith of other but by his own faith, which giveth him life as the soul to the body. Natha. saying then that the faith doth vinifie man, it must then be lively, and that the faith which is dead is no faith. Phy. Yes it is faith as a dead man is a man, without having life, moving nor feeling, without which things man can not be man, but a dead carrion, or else it is faith as a painted fire is a fire without heat clearness or light which be things impossible, and contrary to their nature. Natha. They their which doth say they believe, without knowing what they do believe, and settel themselves at all adventure upon the faith of other, have not the right faith. Phy. What faith may that be, which hath no foundation, nor ground upon The foundation of faith the promises of God, being ignorant of them, for the true faith hath for his ground & foundation the promise of God, and his word without the which it can not be faith. Natha. What is it then? Phy. If thou wilt call it faith, and abuse the word we may call it feigned, painted, historical or dead faith. For faith can we not rightly call it, in such sort as the holy scripture doth take and understand the word faith, wherefore if thou wilt call it by more proper names, thou mayst call it fantasy, or foleish opinion, or else temerite and presumption. Natha. I am enough satisfied in this point, tell me then now what is that God in whom thou believest, for I have determined thus to examine thee, point by point, not as an inquirar of thy faith to examine thy faith and thy conscience, but for to learn and to be taught of the. Phy. Thou demaundeste of me a thing the which no understanding can comprehend nor any tongue open according to his dignity. nathanael Wherefore then callest thou him God, if there be no tongue that can setforth his name. Phy The name of God It is very certain that many names be attributed unto him of all people, tongues & nations but there is none that may perfectly define and declare his hature, his essence, his dignity virtue and majesty. Natha. To what purpose serveth then those names? Phy. For to help and succour the human infirmity, unto the which must be set forth and described such things as it may comprehend and know for his salvation. Natha. Seeing there is no name in heaven nor in the earth worthy nor sufficient unto his majesty, at the lest declare unto me what thou understandest by the name which thou givest unto him, and other like. Phylype. I understand not a creature mortal, visible, and corruptible: but a spirit which is not created, but eternal without What god is john, iiii. isaiah ●l. xx, Psal. xv. end or beginning, a majesty, essence, divinity, power, wisdom, goodness, mirable & infinite a sovereign goodness having all in himself, having no need of any manner of thing being sufficient unto himself, and to all creatures, of the which he is only the author, creator, governor, conseruator. Natha. Wherefore dost that call him likewise father almighty. Phy? The better to declare and open that which I have said. Nata. The name of father how is it seeming or appropried unto God. Phy. It is seeming unto him for divers causes and reasons, the first for asmuch as Wherefore god is called father. Ephe. i. he is father of our Lord jesus Christ. And after because that he is author of all things and of the which deffendeth all fatherheade as well in heaven as in earth, and singularly because that he is of a most fatherly affection toward his elected, unto whom he doth show himself as a most loving father toward his children, and doth hold and take them for his, for the love he beareth unto jesus Christ his natural son. Natha. Expound me all these points by particulars, and tell me first how he is father of our Lord jesus Christ, and how jesus Christ is the son of God Phy. This place should be better entreated in his place in the second part of the creed in the which jesus Christ is clearly called the son of God, but in as much as thou requirest now the exposition of it, I am content to satisfy thy desire for the matters be after such sort conjoined together that it is very hard to separate them, and it is almost all one to declare it here in the first part, and in the second, so that which shall be here towchede hath no need to be here recited, but shall serve for the one & the other, & if there be any more in this matter to be opened for to obtain the more understanding, we may pass the more lightly over, and need not to tarry so long upon it, for there shallbe enough of other matters to be treated of. And for to answer unto thy question jesus Christ is the son of The eternal generation of jesus Christ john. i. God, according to his divinity, because that he is begotten of the father eternally, & is one self essence and substance with him, and according to his humanity, forasmuch as without seed of corruptible, man & sin he was conceived in the womb of the virgin by the operation of the holy Ghost. Natha. Thou openest unto me secreted, very dark and hard to be understand, for if jesus Christ be God, how can he be begotten Deu. vi. Psal. xvi. Rom. i. of the father, & how is it possible that God should beget God, saying he is not but one immutable and incorruptible, Phylipe. I do well confess that these mysteries surmounteth our understanding, and be incomprehensible unto the human fragility, & therefore be they called mysteries that is to say secrets hidden and dark, but we may not conceive here a carnal opinion, unworthy of the majesty of God by these words as though we spoke of mortal men. Natha. Wherefore spoke we so then? Phy. Because that for lache of words & more proper and meet vocables, The manor of speaking of the scripture. we beconstrained to borrow these of the common language of men, to th'end that by human and easy similitudes we may declare the things celestial and divine which do exceed the capacity of our rude understanding which can not comprehend any higher language. Natha. What similitude and comparison hath the begetting or generation of the son of God with that of the carnal father, and of his son. Phy. We must first in this consideration and application cast away and reject all absurd, strange and carnal cogitations, & thoughts. And we must not here dream of such begetting or generation, as the poets attribute unto their Gods. Na. Open unto me that similitude as thou understandest it. Phy. Even as the child is begotten of the father, & of his proper substance unto his Image and likeness of such substance jeremis. xxxii. i. Hebre. i Ihon. xiiii. and nature, as he is, and doth take his name of him, being called man, as he is: even so jesus Christ is truly called God, being the Image of the father, of his substance and nature, representing the father as the true and natural child, after such sort, that he that seeth the son, seeth the father. Natha. There is then generation & corruption in the divine nature. Phy. In this there is a great difference between the generation of God, & of men. And we must not stretehe the similitude & comparison to make it answer to all points, & to apply it in all things with the human generation. Na. How must we then understand this? Phy. Manengendreth his child of corruptible seed, because he is corruptible. And of necessity the father must be before the child But in God it is all otherwise. Na. Show me the difference. Phy. It is not possible for me to comprehend this, nor unto any creature living, nor to can open that which I do understand, feel & believe herein. But I shall assay to make the thing something more open by humane similitudes: albeit there is no comparison of the creature unto the creator. Na. I desire much to have a more clear understanding of this place, of the which many do speak without understanding it. Phy. There is no creature which doth not represent his creature, and Creatures Images of the creator. the word & virtue of the same, by the which all things be made. Wherefore we will take the sun, which is a clear Image, and manifest unto all men, for to make us this the more easy, following the example of the ancient writers, which have willingly used this comparison. Nathana. The thing A similitude of the sun. pleaseth me veri well. Follow thy purpose. Philippe. As the sun casteth his beams, which be engendered 〈…〉 forth of him by the which he sighteth, is 〈…〉 ●●nifest unto men, he giveth clearness and sight upon the earth, he doth nourish and vinifie all things, & yet never was nor never shall be without the same his beams, albeit they be engendered Hebr. two. Colo. i Ephe. i. of him, nor they without him likewise. Even so jesus Christ is the beams, splendour, glory, and Image of the father, after such sort begotten of him, that never the father hath been without him, nor he without the father, and by him w●se and know the father, as we know the son by his beams, by him the father doth illuminate, save nourish, and vinifie us, and by the holy ghost proceeding of him, and of the son, as the heat and virtue of the sun. Natha. notwithstanding that no similitude nor comparison can be high enough, proper nor worthy, to descrive such a majesty, nevertheless this same doth not seem very unproper? Phy. But we must always understand that in god there is neither accident norqualitie, but all that is in him is god & thing most substantial & convement unto his nature, and divine essence, in the which we have to consider the father which is as the root original the fountain beginning, and the first cause of all, and after his son which is his word and his eternal wisdom, not that we should understand tha●; 〈…〉 Christ should be only 〈…〉 ●orde spoken in the a●re, which john. i. Prover. viii. vanisheth and suddenly is gone, or written in any corruptible book or story. But because that man doth give knowledge of that, which is in his heart and open his thoughts by his word, which is the Image of his understanding and mind for to represent and open the same unto other: the scripture also doth call jesus Christ the eternal word of God because that by him God doth open himself unto men, as we do open and make manifest our hearts by our words. But this word is not a voice or sound, or a corporal or corruptible thing, which may perish in God, as it is in us, but doth abide always in God, and is substantial, and of such a nature as he which hath begotten him is, he is also the holy Ghost, which is his virtue and power, and is after such sort extended over all the world, and shed forth upon all things that yet he doth not leave nor is separated but doth abide always in himself which doth fulfil the heaven and in the earth. Natha. Even so do I understand but let us come unto the other reason, wherefore thou callest How God is father of all creatures. him father. Phy. Because that as the son doth take his being, his beginning his life, his nourishment, and all that he hath of his father being also afterward brought up & governed of him: even so all creatures take their being and conservation of God, which by his providence and fatherly goodness doth conduct and govern, nourish & uphold all the creatures, which by his inestimable power he hath created, and specially Man, for whom he hath created all things, and whom he hath adopted and chosen for his children and heirs by jesus Christ our Lord. Na. Doth it not suffice to call him creator of all things Phy. The name of the father doth bear and contain much more For all be it, that God is creator of all things, yet doth he not call himself father of all creatures, but of man. And not of all men generally, as of his chosen and elected. For he doth not call himself properly father of all men. Of the which he is creature: but of them only, which he hath elected, loved, bought and saved in his son jesus Christ, which he doth hold for his children and giveth unto them his immortal inheritance. As the father maketh his son his heir, which he doth not unto the reproved and evil. Yet nevertheless he doth nourish, keep and defend them, as he doth the beasts and other creatures. And that principally for two reasons. The first is the better to declare his inestimable goodness, which is so great, that there is no creature, what soever it be, how vile abject and little so ever it can be unto the which he would not the same his goodness should extend, and should feel of it. Yea, even his enemies which do blaspheme him, of the which nevertheless taketh he yet the care and charges, pursuing and following them with his favourable goodness, for to overcome the malice of their hearts. The other reason is because of his elected, unto the which he maketh all things to serve. And for the which he doth uphold all other creatures, and doth spare even the evil, to the end his children should have no hurt, nor perish with them. But he hath an other manner of care of his elected and chosen, and hath called them unto a more greater blessing and benediction, then unto that which is common unto us with the brute beasts. And therefore will he not only be called and holden of us, as our creature: but also for father to the end that we may be assured that not only we hold Math. v. i. Timo. iiii. our life and birth of him, but also that he hath a singular love towards us, and more than a fatherly affection, which never doth forget, forsake, refuse, nor reject his children, but hath a perpetnall care for to keep and save, for to help and succour them in all their necessities and in all dangers and perils. Natha. According to thine exposition the name of father attributed unto God doth not only comprehend the creation, but also The providence of God his providence, and the infinite goodness which is in him, of the which doth follow that they which deny the providence of God making him careless taking from him the thought, care, and charge of his creatures, believeth him not to be a father. Phy. They believe not God, to be God, but do make him more in human & cruel, than the poor quean that came to Solomon's judgement, yea then the Dogs, wolves, Lions, and all other wild beasts. Natha. How so Phi. The poor quean hath care for her child being moved of pity and compassion toward it the wild beasts nourish and defend their little young onhis, & take such care and thought for them, that many times there suffer them selves to be slain to save them, and shall God then forget the work of his own making and not care for his own proper children, which he doth more love than ever any mother loved hers, where should be than that sovereign goodness, what God or father should he be if he should forsake his children after they were borne, and suffer them to perish, the true christians knoweth no such God, but doth leave him to the Epicures. Natha. Certainly we be marvelously blinded if we can not consider that, but wherefore puttest thou to it almighty. Phy. For to isaiah. xl. xlix. show that he differeth far from our carnal fathers which can do nothing of themselves, but he may do all that he will both in heaven and in earth. Natha. And to what purpose doth it serve us to know that he is almighty. Phy. That knowledge doth bear & bring a great assurance into our consciences for being assured that he is our father that hath adopted and chosen us by his son jesus Christ, we need not doubt of his good will and fatherly affection, toward us, saying then that we be assured of his good will, we need not fear but that he will put it in execution, saying he is almighty and hath the power. Natha. It is very hard and difficile for a man to do any thing except he have these two things together that is to say, the will and the power, for the will without the power what can it profit and to what purpose shall the power be employed if the will be not ther. Phylype. And therefore when we call him father, we confess alredi the assurance that we have of his will toward us, and to the end we should abide, and know that his will is not vain without putting any thing in affect we attribute unto him almighty, the which things do teach us that he is not as a mortal man, which often would and can not. Or like unto a tyrant, or some rich man of power, which might do much, if he would but his will not answering or agreeing unto his power. nathanael. It followeth then of that which thou sayest, that God doth not keep his power in himself, as the covetous man or usurar doth his riches in his treasury or coffers without distributing any to any man. But doth continually exercise his power and goodness among his creatures. Phi. So would I have said, & that all creatures be unto him subjects & at his disposition. And doth conduct & govern them as it pleaseth him. And none can hinder him. nathanael. seeing it is so thou mayest well Psal. viii Ephe. i Hebre. two. Psal. Cxiii say, that, that knowledge doth bring great rest unto our consciences. For if we could so sirmelie believe this with our hearts, as we do easily confess it with our mouths, we should never be in fear of any thing, for in as much as we be assured that God hath all in his hand, and that he is always so doing, that nothing can be done, neither in heaven nor in earth without his council & ordinance, and that there is no creature that can do any thing, not so much as to make tof all a leaf from a tree, or to make an head hear whit or black, without his wil And having leave Math. x Math. v of him & being sure of the other part that neither he willeth or doth any thing, but it is good, and there is nothing good but he willeth it: what ought we then to fear? Is there any creature that may noy us? Phi. In that it Genes. i doth appear, that we be all hypocrites, and that we do not believe God to be the father almighty. we be so fearful. nathanael. When I do consider well these things, it doth seem unto me, that they which do pray unto the angels, or holy saints, Invocation of saints. or put their trust in any creature, whatsoever it be, hath not truly that faith, which thou confessest. Philip. They be as far of, as from the heaven unto the earth. For if they did believe that God were their father, as they do confess him with their mouth, they should rather have their recourse, hope and refuge, in him then in any other. nathanael. But they say they have their recourse unto him, and put in him their trust But they do it the better to obtain his favour, fearing lest because of their sins he will not hear them. Wherefore they do trust that when they do join the saints with him that they shall be sooner succoured. And that they shall be sooner exalted or lift up by their intercession. Philip. What other thing is this, then to deny that he is God, nor our father? nathanael. Wherefore? Phi. If he be God, father almighty, we must not doubt but he may do all what he will as well in heaven as in earth, for he hath the power, and if we doubt not in his power no more ought we not to mistrust in his will his wisdom and goodness. If then we believe that he is our God & father, not carnal, mortal, and weak lacking power but almighty, & eternal, in whom may or do we trust, that may better or sooner help us, than he which is almighty, who shall have more affection to do it then he that is our father, who can do it better or in time for us most requisite, than he which is the fountain and spring of all power wisdom and goodness Natha. Thy reasons be so open and manifest that none can say agayuste them, by the which I do clarly know that all they which have recourse and confidence, and do make prayer or invocation unto any other but to God, be hypocrites & liars when they with mouth do say the prayer of our Lord jesus Christ, & this creed calling God their father, which they do not believe seeing they deny him by their works, the which do open and bear witness, what is in their hearts Phy. They be such as the prophet speaketh of, they draw near unto God with their lips, & honour him with their mouths, but their hearts be very far from him. Natha. All this is well expounded but tell me yet further wherefore thou puttest to things going before, creator of heaven & earth Phy. For to declare that he is the author, the beginning, and the original of all things which he hath all made, and hath not been made as the Gods of the paynims, which they have taken and chosen amongst men, & have not made one so excellent a work as the artificers, which be mortal men, and can do nothing of themselves, except they have the matter and the instruments, proper, and convenient for the purpose, but he hath made all of nothing without help, council, or assistance of any manner creature by himself, & his eternal word, as all the scriptures do give clear testimony, and principally Moses which doth largely describe the history Psal. Cxiii. Esai. iiii. Gene. i. two. of the making of the world, this addition than doth not only deliver us from the error of the Epicures which deny the providence of God, but also from that of the peripatticiens, and other made philosophers, which have holden and affirmed that the world was eternal, and that it was not created, which is a doctrine to tu●●ie upsedown all the order of God, all religion, and all goodness, & furthermore this word admonisheth us how we ought to learn to know God God's creatures be his Images by his caeatures and to behold him in them saying that he is invisible, and incomprehensible in his essence and majesty, for all this present world is as a shope, in the which God this sovereign workmaster doth open This world is the shop & temple of God. & set abroad his works, to the end that by the same the worker be known. This world is also a church or a temple in the which there is not so little a creature, but it is an Image of his creator, & a mirror or glass to show and manifest him unto us, wherefore it doth follow that they which will represent God by Image made with hands of men, do him great wrong, and do not well understand this article, for what similitude hath the work of man with the work of God? Or which shall better represent the great workman, his own works or the works of men, which be nothing like or in comparison to his, except we will compare in lying and unstableness? Natha. I do well understand all this, but saying that he is father and creator of all things, wherefore callest thou him only creator of heaven and earth? Phy. Because that those two creatures which be the most excellent and manifest unto man, do conprehend all the other which be in them comprised or that be neighbour or nearer unto their nature nathanael. What wilt thou understand divers significations of the firmament by the heaven. Phyl. As the heaven is taken in divers significations in the holy scriptures so I do understand divers things, according to the significations which be to him appropried. Nathanoell. What be those significations. Phy. The first and most vulgar and common signification is, when we understand the firmament, which covereth all, and the spears celestial in the which be contained as well the stars as the plannettes, for to serve unto man. Natha. Signifieth it any more. Phy. This name is also usurped very The trove of God. often, for the air, and for the regions near the celestial spears because they do approach more near unto his nature, and that they be elements more pure. Natha. Is there any more or other signification? Phy. Forasmuch also as man can not sufficiently distrive the majesty of God but by human things, and there is no fairer, more noble, more excellent, more high, nor more magnifical creature, that doth appear unto the eye of man: and because also that God declareth better his majesty and power of heaven, Esa. lxiiii. jerem. xvil. then of any other place: the heaven is taken for the throve, the seat, the glory and majesty of God, and for the place: where raineth the blessed and happy with him. nathanael. When thou sayest then that he is Creator of heaven, what dost thou comprehend according to his first signification Phylype. The celestial bodies the sun, the moon and all the stars, and planets contained in the same. Natha. What profiteth it to know and believe all that? Phy. To keep me from Idolatry to the end I should not honour the sun, 4. King. xiiii. the moon, and the stars, which be called in the scripture the celestial army, as the philosophers, and old Idolatouros have done, and to the end also that I should not give faith unto the plannettes and foolish sayings and superstitious prognostications of the astronomers, and that I should not fear the signs of heaven, as the prophet admonisheth us, and that I do not honour them, saying they jari. x. be creatures to serve me, & not I to serve them but to know by them their creator, which doth conduct and govern them, whom only we must fear, honour, adour. Natha. What understandest thou more by the second signification? Phy. The elements of the air, and fire, and all things engendered in them, as impressions, comets, thunders, lightenings, hails, clouds, winds, tempests, rains, dews, snow, and other like with those that be conversant in the air, as the fowls, and all steing things, which for that cause be called birds of the heaven. Natha. what fruit may we take of this. Phy. very great for we be assured that all these things be in the power of our father, which is the creator, and that they be all created for our weal, and not for our hurt & perdition, and after we do learn by the same to fear & love him only, & not to fear nor love nothing but in and for him, and further we be delivered from the error of them which have their recours unto the holy Idolatry toward the saints. saints, for to obtain fair wether, and to have rain, or for to drive away the winds and tempests, or for to have plenty & dryve away scarcity, and lack, & for to give health and deliver from pestilence and sickness that raineth among men, for it is an Idolatry, & a blasphemy, which greatly dispeaseth god reproving the Israelites greatly by his prophets, Osee. two. x. which did give the honour unto their Idols for the benefits which they had received of God, as though they received them of their strange Gods. Natha. And what thinkest thou of them that ween that the magissiens, Enchanters, and Sorcerers, do move the tempests and make the hails, and other like ev●lles? Phy. I will not deny that the evil and unhappy spirits have great power, nor that they may not meddle themselves among the tempests to do the more annoyance unto men Ephe. two. for the holy Apostle himself doth attribute unto them great power in the air, but nevertheless, all their power is always limited that they can do no more, than God doth permit, as we do see it clearly in the example of job. And he doth not permit unto them but asmuch as he doth know to be expedient for to exercise the patience of his servants or asmuch as our sins and unfaithfulness doth merit and deserve, to be chastised & punished. touching the sorcerers, it is a great abuse to think that they may make the hail and move the elements the virtue and efficatie of Satan is great enough to trouble their understandings in asmuch as they have forsaken God, to make and men to believe such things, & say that they have done that which they have, but done by the only permission of God, or else is done naturally by his divine ordinance. Natha. We ought not then to fear any other but the one only God, & if we fear him there is neither devil nor sorcerer, that can ●oye us, & they shall not fear us more than we them. Phy. I am very glade that thou feelest so well the virtue and fruit of this faith. nathanael. Thou haste already given me many goodly doctrines, in few words but tell me yet what thou understandest by the Invisible things last signification of heaven which thou hast touched. Phylype. All things invisible and spiritual, as Angels souls, and blessed and happy Psal. xiii. Math. xviii. Hebre. i. spirits, which all be creatures, subjects unto God to serve at his will, wherefore we do learn to hold ourselves always unto him only which is the master and to take the other, as the servants of God, and of his elected. nathanael. And what understandest thou by the earth. Phy. The earthly element and the foot or The earth & waters. lowest of all wordly things. And the sea likewise being near unto it, and all lakes, ponds, fountains, rivers, and all waters, and all that is contained in these elements, and all that doth receive life, and nourishment that is to say, men, beasts, and all fowls, fishes and all that hath living soul, together with the plants, trees herbs, and all fruits which be created for their nourishmentes. The metals, mines, stones, & all other things, which the earth and the water bringeth forth for the use of men and beasts. Nata, This same aught well also to nourish i Petre. v. our faith and trust in God, and teach us to whom we ought to give the honour of these things, of whom to demand them, Benefits of God tow●●d men. and to whom to give thanks for them. Phylype. We be very blind, and unprovided of wit and understanding, if we have our recourse, and put our trust in any other then in the only God, and if we know Gene. i. two. not his great providence, wisdom, & goodness, which he doth use toward us, and the mind and care that he hath over us, & how tenderly, and fatherly he doth entreat v●. For before he had created man, he would prepare his lodging, the which he did adorn and garnish with all beauty and richesse, and hath put him in this world as in a most delectable paleis, & hath constitute him master Psal. viii. Hebre. two. & Lord over all his creatures, the which he hath provided in such abundance, and so many sorts, that it is impossible to comprehend them nor to desire more. Natha. truly if we considre diligently this largeness and goodness of God, the which he doth use towards us, and the honour which he hath done unto man: we shall have to marvel, and to cry and say. O Lord our God, how admirable is thy name in the universal earth? And what is it of man that thou haste mind of him, & what is it of the son of man that thou showest to him so great benefits, as to visit & take the care, & charge of him? Thou haste made him little less than the Angels thou haste almost made him as a God, thou haste crowned him with honour and glory and haste constitute him over the works of thy hands. The sin & ingratitude of man. Phy. It is impossible, enough to consider this. But man, having been lifted up of God into such honour, would neither understand nor Psal. xlviii, know it. Wherefore he hath been made like unto mares & brute beasts. But yet more ingrate and unthankful, misknowing, and miserable: for the ox knoweth his master, and the ass his masters crib, but man will not isaiah. i. know God his creator, of whom he receiveth and holdeth both body, and soul, and goods. Is not this a great error, that the ox and the ass, which be beasts so vile and of little understanding, should give more honour and obeisance unto man, of whom they receive but only their pasture, and that man should have so little respect unto God, of whom he hath received and doth receive every day so many and infinite benefits. Rom. iiii. Natha. I am greatly ashamed when I think of it, and can not tell how we should be so hardy as to lift up our eyes to heaven, & how the earth may bear so great misknowleging, ingratitude and unthankfulness. For I do consider when we would outrageously rebuke any man as an Infidele, and an enemy of God, we call him dog, as we often do the jews and turks. And yet nevertheless we do all things worse than dogs. Men more unthankful than Dogs. For if a dog have been brought up in a house, he will always know his master and follow him, and is in all things true and faithful unto him. And though he beat him yet will he come always again, & never forsake him. But man, albeit that almighty God never ceaseth to draw him unto him by his manifold benefits: yet he of the contrary part is ever turning himself from him, & draweeths backward (such is his weakness corrupted nature & miserable condition in the flesh) without keeping unto him other truth, promise, or fidelity. But doth dishonour him in all the ways that he can. Phylype. In hearing the speak, I do remember altorie that I have heard told of a poor shepherd. There were two cardinals, that went together to the council of constance, & as they road by the way, they met a poor shepherd very tenderly weeping. The one of them passed on the way without caring any thing of him The other being more pitiful did stay his hors●e, tarried and asked the shepherd wherefore he wept so sor●, who answered him, I weep for the great shame that I have for the misknowleging, Ingratitude, and unthankfulness towards God. For I do behold here a toode, which is a very foul & vile beast, which hath monished me of my great misknowledge that so hath blinded my understanding, that I had never the though nor remembrance to give thanks unto my god which hath made & form me a man, and not a toode as he might right well have done if it had pleased him. Nata. I assure the that this consideration and answer is well worthy of memory. And this same poor shepherd may well arise at the day of judgement for to condemn us of our great unkindness, and ingratitude. For if we had never received other benefit of God than that he hath made us men, & hath given us form & human reason, yet could we never reknowledge & thank him enough for it. Phy. Thou sayest truth. But he hath done much more, The restoring and redemption of man. for as he hath created man unto his Image & likeness, and all things for him by jesus christ his son, even so would he by the same his son, raise up & repair again man after his fall, and restore all things with him aswell in heaven as in earth, in the which he hath no les declared his power, wisdom, & goodness then in the creation of the world, for the one of these works is no less than the other, & doth not appertain but unto one only workman. Natha. And therefore desire I greatly in as much as we have gone thorough the first article, & have sufficiently treated of the creation & of the providence of God toward his creatures, that we should come unto the second part, in the which thou hast promised me to expound unto me the mystery, and the history of the redemption of mankind, made by our Lord jesus Christ. Phy. I am well content that we enter into it. And to follow it by particulars, but because there is many great secrets and goodly points well worthy to be noted, understanded and kept in memory: mine advice is to put of the rest till another time, for we have already treated of matter enough for out time. And it is better to take a little, and a little at once, then by over many words and of to much doctrine, to travail the understanding which doth require always some rest & recreation. And also to learn again and the better to examine and think upon that which he hath heard. Natha. Albeit that, this doth serve me for a great recreation: yet nevertheless I am of thine accord, upon the condition we departed before. Phylipe. So do I mean, God be with the. Natha. That same good God have the always in his holy keeping. ¶ This third dialogue and the other next following contain the second part of the creed which is of the son of God, in which shall be spoken of his divinity, and of his humanity, of his Incarnation, and of the mystery of the redemption of mankind, and showeth how we ought to consider & understand the history of our Lord jesus Christ & to apply it unto our profit, PHylyp. Have I not kept my promise Nathanael. nathanael. I do see it well, & I was in mind to have come unto the for to have kept the from this labour, but thou haste been more diligent than I. Wherefore I do well perceive that thou takest no less pleasure to teach than I do to learn. Wherefore I pray the because we have great matters to treat of in this second part, that we begin be time to the end we lose or lack no time. Phylipe. I desire non other thing, nevertheless, because that peradventure we might be over short, in case we should go thorough all the points contained in this second part at once, and it should be very hard for to retain in memory so much at once. Wherefore it seemeth unto me to be more expedient to divide it in four, & in the first we shall speak of the divinity & humanity of jesus Christ and of his offices. In the second of his incarnation. And of that he hath done for us during the time of his infirmity, and unto his death and glorification. In the third we shall set forth the fruit which of these things cometh unto us. In the forth we shall speak of his body glorified, and of his last coming, tell me then what followeth, and show upon what points thou desierest most large and easy declaration. Natha. It doth follow. I believe in jesus Christ his only Believe in Christ son our Lord. etc. how understandest thou this, and what is the sense of these words? Phy. They signify that I do trust all holy in jesus Christ the true son of God, and that I believe in him as in the father, & that by him the father hath delivered me from death and eternal damnation, and hath reconciled me unto himself, received me unto his favour, by his well-beloved son, which hath satisfied for me unto his justice, and hath obtained me eternal life. Natha. Thou confessest then that jesus Christ is God, saying thou believest in him, for thou haste already said that we must not put our trust but in one only God. Phylype. If I did not believe, that he were truly God of one self essence, power and equality with the father, I should be unhappy to believe or trust in him, seeing that the prophet doth pronounce & judge. Cursed jeremis. xvii. be he that doth trust in man, and taketh flesh for his arm. Natha. And jesus Christ is he not man? Phylype. He is very man and in all things hath been like unto us except sin, but he is not simply man as we be but being made man, is nevertheless always very God, and the very son of God, as already it hath been expounded, wherefore when I do say in the beginning of the Crede, I believe in God, I do speak & say in general, that which afterward I do more plainly express and open declaring how that in the essence of one God, & in one deity, I do recognize and confess the father the son and the holy Ghost, three persons in one self substance & divinity. Natha This same is marvelous high and difficullte to be comprehended. For how can I perceive and understand them to be three, and yet nevertheless they be but one. Phylype. We must not be abashed if these mistiries surmount the capacity of our understandings for if we can not know ourselves, nor the lest creature that is in the world perfectly, and such as he is in his nature, no not so much as a little mouse, or a little grass or herb, which we do every day see: how is it possible that we should perfectly know the creator of all the world, and is not able to be comprehended but is incomprehensible unto all creatures, yea unto the Angels themselves. nathanael. I do confess it, but canst thou not by sum manner of speaking more clearly give light unto these things so profound and dark? Phy. I can not, but by the prints & impressions Images of God which God hath put of his Image in his creatures, I will show as it were a shadow, but as for to paint him lively, it is not possible unto man, & we can not better remember nor know him, then in them portreture which he hath made us of himself in his holy scriptures, and in the lively Images, which he hath portretured with his hand, and imprinted in his creatures as I have all ready declared unto the an example of the sun. Natha. I take great pleasure in such similitudes and comparisons, and principally because thou hast showed me that the ancient doctors of the church have willingly used the same & could not find am other more convenient. Phy. Without going or seeking any further let us abide in the sun, first when thou beholdest it, thou seest there is but one in all the world, which nevertheless is sufficient unto all creatures, and notwithstanding that, it is but one creature of God and one Image of that great fountain, of all light, which is in the father of light. Nevertheless it is not possible unto the human eyes to comprehend it, and cast his look st●ay●e into him, for if he do look right into him, his great clearness and light will take his sight from him, and make him in manner all blyude because that the littleness, weakness and infirmity can not bear it, then if the eye which is created of God for to receive light can not behold the sun in his substance, nor bear his light, how should the human understanding which is so straight and weak comprehend the great king of glory and majesty which comprehendeth in himself all creatures and can not be comprehended of them all together such as he is in his majesty? Natha Here is all ready many goodly properties to give understanding what we may know of God. Phy. There is yet other considerations, for all be it thou seest but one sun in his substance, yet nevertheless thou canst not see nor consider it, but thou shalt see three things, the which can not be separated the one from the other, & can not be the one without the other & yet nevertheless the one is that the other is, & yet always the same is but one self sun. Natha It is very true that when I consider the son, I do see it an original ground and fountain of light, the which nevertheless I can not see but by his beams, and by his clearness, nor feel it but by his heat & virtue. Phy. Thou dost experiment in this s●dane contemplation, and apprehending one sun dost fall into an unity, & after incontinent out of that unity thou fallest again into a trinity, in such sort that it doth seem unto the that there is three things, and after considering three, thou comest again in the end alway to one, and further if one should ask the of the body of the sun what it is what, wouldst thou answer. Natha. That it is the sun. Phy. And if one should ask the also of his beams and of his heat, wouldest thou not call it also the sun? Natha. That is certain for when his beams or his heat, or his clearness, do enter into any place we do say the sun is entered, and if by the heat of the sun any thing be done we do say the sun hath done it. Phy. Thou dost see them how it seemeth that thou makest three suns, and yet thou knowest, nor dost not confess always but one. Nata. It is true but may we say so of God the father, the son, and the holy Ghost? Phy. As well may we when we speak of the son, and of the holy Ghost, call them Gods, as we may the heat and clearness of the sun, the sun. But there is in this a great difference, for that which is a quality, & a thing accidental in the sun, is in God essence, and a thing essential and substantial, abiding & always resident in him. And even as we do take a similitude and comparison of the sun, so may we do likewise of the human Comparison taken of the soul soul, for in every one man there is but one only soul, and yet nevertheless in that only soul we find three distinct things, & without confusion, that is to say reason, memory▪ and will, and not withstanding that these things be distincted, & have some difference between them, in such sort that, that is reason is not memory, nor will, nor memory is not reason. And to be short, that which the one is, the other is not, and yet there is always but one self soul, and one simple substance. But that we may call in the soul affects and operations of the same, in God is always proper substance of himself. Natha. I knowr well in hearing of the that this is a matter, the which we do find alway the more high and incomprehensible the more we do think of them, and the more we do search of them, the more do we find than mysteries & secrets, the which we ought rather to honour then curiously to search in them, & it is much better to hold us unto the simplicity of the holy scriptures, and unto that the which by them we may understand. Phy. There is no doubt, that if the human understanding, can not comprehend these mysteries, much less can the tongue open & declare them, for it is impossible unto a faithful man, to find proper words to open and declare that which he may understand & feel in himself, and if we might by our understanding comprehend God, and by words open and declare him he could not be God, but we should he Gods, for than were he not Infinite, if he were comprehensible, or and if there be any creature that were capable or receivable, for it is he, the which comprehendeth all in himself, and can not be comprehended of any creature, wherefore we ought to content ourselves to see and know him as in a glass here in this mortal life, as much as to us is necessary unto salvation, and to two. Cor. xiii. find the wai to go unto him, where as we shall see him face to face, and there shall know him as we have been known of him, and therefore do we travel to know him in jesus christ which is the way to lead and convey us. john. xvi. Natha. That do I greatly desire, & that we do follow this article, which we have already begun, and the rest which as I do think shall not be so dark nor difficult to understand, I pray the than that thou wilt declare unto me word by word, the other properties and offices attributed unto the person of our Lord jesus Christ & that thou do The name of jesus. expound the name of jesus unto me what it doth signify. Phy. It signifieth saviour. Natha. Wherefore hath he been so named. Phy. Because that God hath so ordained Luke. i. two. Math. i. him a saviour, as the Angel sent unto the virgin Marry, and unto joseph had said of him before his nativity interpreting by & by the mystery of this divine appellation and name. Natha. It is very likely to be true that this name was not given unto him by the providence of God, without mystery, wherefore I desire the to open it unto me. Phy. He shall be called jesus said the Angel, because he shall save his people from their sins, wherefore the Angel declareth what his office represented by his name. And in calling him saviour, he doth witness him to be truly God, which doth say by his prophet I am God, and there is no saviour beside me. Natha. The consequence is good, for if there Deity of jesus saviour. Esai. xl. iii. Osee. xiii. be no saviour but God, and jesus Christ is saviour (as his name and the Angel by interpretation witnesseth) it doth follow necessarily that he is not man only but God also. Phy. We see by this that there is not one word in the holy scriptures, which is not well worthy to be weighed & to examine his signification and that the places which do name jesus Christ to be God, expressly do not only prove and witness his deity, and his divinity, but also all those places do prove the same which do attribute unto him the offices which only do appertain unto God and the honour which unto him only is dew, which be shed abroad thorough all the holy scriptures without numbered. Nathana. And therefore then let us come unto the exposition of the other name which is also attributed unto our Lord jesus. Wherefore is he called Christ? Phy. Because he is anointed of God, being by him ordained a true prophet The signification of Christ. king and chief sovereign sacrifice, maker of all his elected. Natha. Doth the name of Christ bear all that. Phy. Yea albeit that few people do consider it, thought they oftentimes have these words in their mouths. Natha. Is it a name of the Hebrew Greek, or lati●? Phy. jesus is taken of the Hebrews, Christ of the Greeks, for to expound the name of Messiah, by the which the Hebrews did understand him, which ought or should come to save them according to the promises made unto their fathers. Natha. It is then all one Messiah and Christ. Phy. It is all one, concerning his signification, there is no difference but in the tongue, and both signify as much as anointed, in our language. Natha. Thou say unto me already that he is called Christ because of the same ointment, by the which he hath ordained him prophet, The prophetical office of Christ. king, and sacrificatour, and therefore let us speak of these three offices, and first of his prophetical office, what understandest thou by prophet. Phy. Him unto whom God hath revealed & opened his will, for to declare and manifest it unto men, and we can not say that this office was evermore appropried unto any person then unto our Lord jesus christ nor that any person hath better exercised it then he for who did ever better know the will john. i Colo. two. of God than he son which is in the bosom of the father, in the which be hidden all the treasures, of the science and wisdom of god, and who m●ght better reveal and open his will than he 〈◊〉 witnesseth, that he hath manifested and opened unto his disciples all that john. viiii. he had heard of his father, it was not then without cause that Moses hath called him prophet, prounsing unto the people, that the Lord should send them a prophet like unto him, in whose mouth he would put his Deut. xviii. words the Lord did give unto his people many prophets after Moses, but there was never nove worthy to be compared unto him, nor unto the which this prophecy did properly agree, but unto jesus Christ which was not only like unto Moses but as much greater and more excellent than Hebre. two. he, as the Master and the Lord doth surmount the servant, as it was well understand of his holy Apostles & disciples, & specially. S. Petre, & S. Stephan which did expound this place to the jews, & did show them how it did agree, & belong to jesus Christ, & jesus christ himself in the synagogue of Nazareth showed by works, by words, & by the testimony of the Prophet Esai, how that he was anointed with the holy ghost, to open & preach the Luke. iiii. Esai. i Math. xi. gospel unto the poor, deliverance unto the prisoners, and the year of grace. Natha. It is then good reason to attribute unto him the office of a prophet, saying he is not only a prophet, but a prince of the prophets. Phy. There is yet, well other causes. He hath The difference between christ and the prophets. not only exercised the office of predication as Moses and the other prophets, but hath consummate all prophecy, & fulfilled all that the prophets had before spoken, therefore said he that the law and the prophets, did last unto the coming of john baptist, and that more is, he hath not only opened and Math. xi. pronounced unto men the law and will of god, as the other prophets, but hath Imprinted it in the hearts, and given the holy Ghost jeremis. xxxi. Hebre. viiii. john. xiiii. xv. xvi. Math. iii. and by the same the virtue and efficatie both to understand and to perform, without the which the ministration or mystery of all the other can be but the dead letter. Nata. And what profit cometh unto me to know this. Phy. first thou art assured of the will of God, and knowest which is the assured & certain doctrine of salvation, unto the which thou oughtest to hold thee, and after thou mayst learn by this what thou oughtest to judge of all doctrine, & how thou mayst & oughtest to reject the traditions, of men. For if jesus Christ be the true prophet, the which only the father will to be herd, it doth follow then that he hath Deut. xviii. Math xvii. taught us all that is necessary unto salvation, and that we have no need of any other doctrine but of his, and that we need not to look nor abide for any other prophecy nor revelation, but that which by him unto us is revealed, & opened, but aught to hold & judge all other doctrines being contrary to be devilish doctrines. Natha. saying it is so it doth seem unto me that we may well conclude that they be not true Christians nor do not believe that jesus Christ is that great and soveraygue, & true prophet, which do say that he nor his Apostles have not spoken & taught that which is necessary for the doctrine of the church, but that we must have recourse unto councils tradions and human doctrines. Phy. There is nothing more certain, and I am very glade that thou understandest the matter so well, for such people deny jesus to be Christ, saying they rob or take from him the offices for the which he is called Christ, though with their mouths they confess him to be Christ, and even as they do him inivey in taking from him his prophetical office, even so do they unto him as touching his kingdom & his priesthood which be the other two offices, which be also comprised & signified in the name of Christ. Natha. In asmuch then as we have spoken of the first, let us come unto the other, what sayest thou of his kingdom? Phy. That it is not carnal ●or of this world Christ's kingdom. john. xviii. as he did witness before Pilate, that is to say a caducte, tra●nsitorie, and mortal ministery, after the manner of terrenall kingdoms, as the jews 〈◊〉 for and thought, but spiritual, eternal, and immortal, as the Angel declaryn●e his conception had before said, wherefore he administereth, reigneth and governeth, by his holy spirit, and the sceptre of Luke. i. his word Natha. We must not then understand to reign here in this low earth, in voluptuousness, and carnal trihumph●s, as the jews did understand, saying that the kingdom of Christ is spiritual. Phy. It is convenient and necessary that the citizens and subjects of this kingdom, be as the king fighting with a spiritual harmony against the flesh, the john, xvi. world, sin & death, Satan, & hell, ●he which he already hath vayuquished & overcome. Nathana. Wherefore is it that by the unction his kingdom and his prophetical and A●●●●tynge of Christ. priestly office be Signified. Phylype. For to declare that he is the true king, prophet and the sovereign sacrifice maker, which was figured by the kings, and prophets of Israel, and by the sacrificers of the Levites which hath performed and accommpleshed that, which they never could do Nata. What was that which they could not do. Phy. The kings being mortal and sinners as well as their subjects could not deliver their people from the tyranny and violence of sin, Death, Satan, and hell, nor likewise the priests by all their sacrifices, as jesus only hath done by his, and by his virtue and power. Natha. Our Lord jesus Christ hath he been anointed as the kings, prophets, and ancient Sacrificers, as David by Samnell, and Aaron and his children by Mo●ses, Phy. Those were anointed with oil mingled with divers precious odours & sweet things for to declare that it was they which God had elected, & ordained unto that office, but jesus was anointed with the holy ghost, which was figured by the same unction as doth appear by Esai, & the testimony of. S. john, for he hath the spirit without measure. Natha. If jesus christ be god, as I Esai. lx. i. john. iii. do believe it how hath he given unto him the holy ghost, seeing that he doth promise and give it to other. Phylype. According to his divine nature he doth not receive it, for it is in his almighty power, but in as much as he hath been made man, he hath received this unction, to the end that in him we might be all partakers of that unction, for the which The name of Christians we be called christians. Natha. It is not then because of the cream that is given unto us in our baptism, that we be called christians, or for the oil, that the priests do bring unto the sick in their extreme unction? Phy. The christians do know neither cream nor jewish ointment, material and corruptible, for their salvation, but that only of the holy Ghost, of the which we must all by jesus Christ be anointed and baptized as Saint john doth witness. Nathana. saying we be partakers of the unction of Christ, of the which we bear the name, we Math. iii. be then kings, prophets, and offerers of sacrifices as he is. Phy. So doth saint Peter call us and giveth that honour unto all true christians, I Petre. two. would if it were God's will, that we understood well all that which is signified by the name which we bear, the which in Antioch was given unto the disciples of jesus Act. xiii. Christ. Nata. In what manner be we kings, & what is our kingdom, saying we be so poor and miserable? Phylype. We be kings in as much, as we be free by jesus Christ the which hath made us free, & delivered us from all our enemies, the which he hath made subject unto john. viii. us, and hath made us Lords of the heaven and earth, for to reign with him, receiving us as his brethren into the communion of his Ephe. i. inheritance and of his kingdom. Natha. How hath he made all subject unto us saying we be yet subject unto sin, and have so much unhappiness, and have yet so many enemies, that we can not enjoy that which God hath given us. Phy. notwithstanding that sin and the devil do make us war, & that it doth unto us that we have need of many things, yet nevertheless there is nothing neither in heaven nor in earth, that may annoy or damn us, nor there is nothing which shall not be subject unto us to serve unto our salvation, and be turned to our benefit, for all things be ours, and we be Christ's, and Christ is Gods, and all things happen, and be turned to the profit of the elected. Natha. I understand now this point, expound unto me now, how we be prophets and priests. Phy. In asmuch as he hath given unto us, his holy spirit for to lead us into the know How christian men be prophets. john. xiiii. xi● xvi. ledge of all truth, and hath opened unto us by the same, the will of God his father, there is no doubt, but we be all prophets, & that the lest of the faithful may not speak, and open more clearly and highly the mysteries of jesus Christ, and declare more largely his death & resurrection, than the greatest prophet which was before his coming, in the which is well fulfilled & accomplished that, which joel. two, Act. two. . S. Peter allegeth of joel saying, I shall shed forth my spirit upon you and your sons and daughters shall prophecy, but yet not withstanding that all be prophets, as concerning the knowledge of God, yet nevertheless it doth not follow that it is or should be lawful to all or every man, to take the office of a prophet in the church, and christian assembles, but only for them which be called of God and chosen and elected by his church unto that office for to open and declare his word, and minister his sacraments, albeit that it is every one of our offices to do the office of a prephet, in our houses towards our families and also our neighbours when occasion is given unto us, but that must be so done, and in such sort, that the order which God hath put in his church be not violated nor converted or confounded Natha. There resteth now no more but of our priesthood. Phy. We be priests and true sacrificers, in Christian priesthood. Rom. xii asmuch as by the spirit of jesus Christ we offer our bodies, hearts & souls, unto God as a quick & lively holy spiritual and acceptable sacrifice with all that we have to serve unto his honour and glory. Natha. By that thou haste expounded unto me of the kingdom of jesus Christ of his prophetical office and sacerdorall dignity I understand not only what prophet, king, and priest he hath been, and what is the virtue and excellenty of his sacrifice, but also how that all his offices, and titles doth appertain unto us, and yet nevertheless there abideth in me a certain scrupulosity. Philip. Towchyuge what? Nathana. Towchyngethe sacrifice of jesus Christ, for thou dost say, that by his sacrifice he hath fulfilled that which all the Levites could never do, and if it so be that the sacrifice of jesus Christ only be perfect, we must then have none other but hold ourselves unto the same. Phy. Even so ought we to understand it Nata. Have the christians then no more sacrifices. Phy. Not material and visible but only those of the which we have spoken and the sacrifices of praises, which be the prayers of the faithful, and the alms of the faith full which be the offerings acceptable unto God, and all good works done unto his praise, but for the redemption of souls, & remission of sins, there is none but that of jesus Christ. nathanael. Then they which offer and sing for the redemption of the souls as well of living as of the dead, and which do offer for the redemption, and remission of their sins, be no christ ●●us, nor do not believe jesus to be Christ, though they confess him with the mouth. Phy. They be christians, as the jews which did persecute Rom. two. ix. Christ, be true Israelites, and children of Abraham by name only, for if jesus be that Christ, he is the true sacrificator, if he be the true sacrificator which saveth the sinners, it must needs be that his sacrifice be perfect, for otherwise he should nothing differ from the sacrificatours of the Levites which were sinners, nor yet his sacrifice from the calves, sheep, and rams, offered in the old testament, & so should he not be the Christ. Natha. It seemeth unto me that which thou sayest, is not out of reason. Phy. By this we may well judge that the greatest part of christians do not understand what is signified by the name which they bear, nor yet what they confess, when they say they believe in jesus christ, for if they understood that they, should be delivered from many errors, superstitions Idolatries, and blasphemies which they commit, nor they should not dispend somuch money, to cause masses to be song for the dead, nor should not make so great expenses about the outward and material sacrifices, nor should not be in such dissension as they be for the mass, and for the ceremonies and traditions of men. nathanael, Wherefore sayest thou that? Phylype. Because they should be all contented with the sacrifice of jesus Christ, and of the salvation which they have received by him, and should offer unto the poor, that weep, that which they offer unto the priests that sing, and unto the quick and lively Images of God, that which they offer unto dumb and dead Idols and should succure the living with the goods they spend about the dead. nathanael. How understandest thou that. Phy. Thou wilt not deny me but that the Hebr. ix. i. sacrifice of jesus Christ is perfect, saying saint Paul doth witness it. Nathana. God forbid. Phy. If it be perfect it is then sufficient, & we must make no more, nor take away nor put to any other with him, for God hath no need of any humane help, & needeth not that man should put to his hand after him in that which he hath fully made and consummate. Natha. I do confess it. Phy. And if thou wouldst not confess that, that of jesus Christ were perfect and sufficient, for to give place unto them which be made by men? I will reprove by the same all the other sacrifices that ever might be made for which of them might we find that might do and accomplish that, which that of jesus Christ might not. And if all they which have been offered, according to the law might never sanctify and make clean the sinners, notwithstanding they were ordained and commanded of god, but hath been necessary that jesus Christ the sovereign bishope & high priest, according to the order of Melchiledecke, should come & offer his proper body & Psal. Cx. blood in sacrifice for the redemption of our souls, what may we hope of them which the priests do at th●se days in their masses, of the which they have no commandment of God? Natha. I donot well understand to what purpose thou speakest this. Phylype. Thou oughtest to understand that the priests do glory that in their masses they offer unto God sacrifices for the redemption of our souls, and do advance themselves that, that sacrifice which they offer is the proper body and blood of jesus Christ, and if it so be, them jesus Christ is no more the christ that is to say the anointed of God, and the eternal priest, after the order of Melchisedech but they be it themselves, saying they attribute unto themselves the office which only unto him appertaineth, and is proper unto the Christ of God, for it is not in the power of any person to offer the sacrifice of reconciliation Sacrifice of redemption. and of redemption, and to sacrifice jesus Christ, but unto himself, which is the Christ of God which is offered him self by the eternal spirit. Natha. How agreeth this then, the priests sing the Crede in their Mass, and confess in the same that they believe in jesus Christ, but if it be as thou sayest they do all clean contrary to that which they sing, and deny by works jesus Christ to be the very Christ, the which they confess with their mouths. Phylype. There is nothing more true, and not they only, but also all they that give faith unto their doctrine, and that have recourse unto their sacrifices and Masses for the remission of their sins, whether it be for the living, or for the dead. Nathana. They be then christians without Christ Phylype. They be not christians without Christ, for a Christ they have, but without the true Christ they be. Nata. They have them a false Christ. Phylype. That is true, and yet not content with one, but have as many as they have priests, which do call themselves Christ'S attributing unto themselves only that which the prophet did understand of all Psal. Cu. the people of God saying, touch not my Christ's, or mine anointed, they may well be Christ's but of the numbered of them of the which Christ did prophesy saying, there Math xiiii. shall come many false prophets & false Christ's Natha. I would not have thought that, that only name of Christ had comprehended so many things, and had drawn such consequence after it, I know well now by experience that many do say their creed which understand nothing, and do all contrary & lie themselves. Phy. Thou mayst judge thyself, and there fore it is needful that all these points be well defined to be clearly understand. Natha. It seemeth me that this point is well enough defined and largely Enough declared for this time, wherefore let us pass over forward. Wherefore sayest thou, his only son or his son united, it doth seem that thou wilt deny by this particular exclusive that there is no son of God but jesus christ Phy. I do not deny but that all the elected, be the children of God, but there is but one that is to say jesus, which is his true and natural child, as we have before expounded. Natha. How be we then children of god. Phy. By adoption, and not by nature. nathanael. What dost thou call adoption? Phy. I call adoption, when one doth take a child, which is not his own proper child procreate of his own body for his own proper & legitimate child giving unto him all rights & titles, as though he were truly & naturally his child, not as though he were bound unto it but doth it of his own free goodness, and of the love that he beareth unto him, and even so be we sons of God by jesus Christ, in whom God doth love us, adopt, chose and receive us for his children, & therefore is the spirit of God called the spirit Rom. viii. of adoption. Natha. Wherefore givest thou yet unto him this title, calling him our Lord. Phy. Because he hath bought us, & that we Cor. vi. be his and his subjects and servants, and that full power is given him as well in heaven as in earth, and that he is king & prince Math two. xiii. and Lord of all creatures, and the only governor and master, & the head of his church & hath power to give laws, & ordinances Colo. i. two. unto men for their salvation, unto the which all men must be subjects. Natha. I understand well now the sense of this article, and the principal points, which it doth contain, let us therefore follow the rest. Phy. In asmuch as we have determined to divide this part, as I did set it forth in the beginning, it shall be good as seemeth me, to make here our first rest & division & after let us enter into the matter of the incarnation of jesus Christ, as I have promised the. Natha. I am of accord in all that thou wilt albeit that me thinketh the time not long, & that I am ready of mine own part to hear all the day long, if it were not to thine nuer great pain and weariness, notwytstandinge I do not believe by all that I can perceive that this labour and pain to be grievous unto thee, but rather that thou dost it having more regard unto me then unto thyself, for thou knowest well that I am to small and little a vessel to receive at once so much of this divine liquor, & lively water, poured forth of the fountain of the word of God. Phy. I would it were the pleasure of God, that I might find many such vessels that were so receivable of this word of life, nor I do not this because I mistrust thy capacity but to the end that both the one and the other of us may the better gather and savour this bread of life which here is ministered to us. Natha. Thy reason is very good, let us therefore both go about our other business that we may return again the more fresh & with the better courage. In this next dialogue shall be set forth the history of jesus Christ, from the time of his conception, unto his ascension, and shall entreat of the mystery of his Incarnation, and of our redemption. nathanael. THou wouldst not believe Phyllype how long I have thought the time since our departing, for I have taken so great a taste and savour, in that I have herd of the heretofore, that I thought I should never see the time Enough to hear of thee, the rest, for the more I hearken unto thee, the greater pleasure I do take, and the more I eat of this meat, which thou dost minister unto me, the more I am hungry. Phylype. Such is the nature of the children of God, and of his word, also, which is so pleasant unto the soul and conscience that of the great pleasure they take in it, they can never be satisfied and filled. Seeing therefore that thou art in so good appetite to the end I make the no longer languor, let us return unto our matter, and ask me questions as thou haste begun. Natha. It doth follow after this first article that we have begun and treated of our The conception jesus christ Timo. iii. Gene. xxii. john. i. Lord jesus Christ, that he was conceived by the holy Ghost, borne of the virgin Marie. What understandest thou by these words? Phylype. I confess that jesus Christ is truly and very man, in the which God hath been opened & showed in the flesh according to the promises made unto Abraham, and David, and according to that which the Prophets had before said. Nath. In this conception wherein god, & this eternal & divine word, hath been made flesh hath it been turned and converted from the divine substance into human flesh? Phylype. That should be a great absurdity, but in taking the human flesh, he hath vuited the divine nature, with our humane nature, man with God, the heaven with the earth, without converting the divinity into flesh, nor yet flesh into deity, without confounding or mingling the one with the other, but conjoining two natures without conversion, confusion, or of any manner of permutation in the person of our Lord jesus Christ being very god of the divine substance & very man of our flesh, blood and bones. Nathana. There is then two natures in our Lords jesus Christ, the one divine and the other human. Phy. Otherwise should he The divine & human nature in jesus Christ. not be Christ, and the saviour of men. Natha. Wherefore? Phy. Because that if he were not God, he should not have power to save, & if he had not been man, he had not borne our infirmities, sins and langoures, nor we should not have such assurance of the remission of our sins, except our flesh in him had borne it. Natha. What need was it that he was made man? Phy. For to confound Satan his adversary, and the better to open the great virtue, and power of God, & his charity, & inestimable love toward men. Natha. How hath Satan been confounded, by the humanity of jesus i Cor. i. Christ? Phy. In that that Satan had thought by the in firmity of the flesh to have destroyed the work of God, & God by the same weak flesh, would restore that which was lost declaring thereby, that his weakness is stronger than all the power of Satan, & of all men, and yet is there other reasons. nathanael What be they? Phylipe. In as much as the world, could not know God, by the wisdom of the same he would by the foleishnes of the cross save the believers. nathanael. What is that for to say. Phy. That in asmuch as men could not know God in his greatness and wisdom, and by the creation of all things: he would by this mean, being nearer unto our humane infirmity, which the wise men of this world did esteem but for folly or foolishness give salvation unto his. Natha. And was there no other mean more proper and convenient? Phy. It pleased him to choose & elect this as most convenient. Nathanael. Wherefore. Phy. Because that considering the human infirmity, and fraylues of our corrupt nature, it was not possible, better to declare his goodness, charity, and mercy towards men, nor no way to give him greater consolation and assurance of his salvation. Natha. Make me well to understand this. Phy. Man was by his sin condemned unto death, malediction, & eternal damnation and had them need to be bought again & delivered, or else he must have been lost. Na. I do confess it. Phy. Then for to be bought and delivered, it must needs be, that some one must have satisfied for him, and paid his ransom. Natha. And might not that have been dove but by jesus Christ? Phylype. No. Natha. Wherefore. Phy Because that all men were in one self necessity, subjection and bondage so that there was none that could satisfy for himself, wherefore they had all need of an other to pay that ransom. Nathana. But saying that God is all merciful, might he not have pardoned man, without any manner of satisfaction? Phylype. He might do all that pleased him, but he would so declare his justice with his mercy, for as he is merciful, so is he also just. nathanael. How hath he by that mean, declared his justice & mercy? Phy. In that, that where A solution worthy to be noted of all men man had sinned the justice of god did remain that he were punished, & of the other part his mercy did move him to have pity of him, & to take him to his mercy. nathanael. These be two things which seem very repugnant and contrary. Phy. And therefore the Lord hath satisfied his justice in punishing the sin of man in his son jesus Christ, which hath suffered the death, & borne the Ice and fury and malediction of God, which man Gala, iii by his sin had merited & deserved. Natha. And if he had punished man, might not man also have satisfied? Phy. No, for in as much as all men were sinners and subjects unto the curse and malediction, of the law, the which malediction, and vengeance of God had utterly destroyed, consumed, and brought him down into hell, for it is so terrible & heavy that no man might have borne it, no not the Angel's themselves. Natha. Yet hath it not for all that consumed & brought down jesus Christ. Phylip. No for saying that he was without sin or spot, the death, sin, hell, nor Satan the prince of the world, could do nothing against him. Natha. And how hath he satisfied by his death? Phi. In that, that he was not debtor, beholding nor bound, & yet nevertheless hath paid as a debtor in that, that he hath satisfied unto the justice of god, wherefore saying that he, not being by any manner of means debtor nor bound, & yet hath paid & satisfied his satisfaction, of the which he himself had no need had served for them that believe for the which he hath answered, and fully satisfied. Natha. That is then the cause, wherefore he hath taken the human flesh. Phy. Yea certainly, for in as much as it must needs have been that the flesh which had sinned & all men also should make satisfaction, & that none could nor might do it, but the son of God, nor the son of God in his divinity could not suffer nor die, therefore hath he taken his body, like unto ours, by the which he hath redeemed us, and hath borne our infirmities. Natha. certainly thou haste not without good cause said that by this mean God hath declared his charity, toward the world giving his proper son for to save it, for if he have not spared his own proper son, but john. three Rom. viii. hath delivered him unto death for us we ought in no wise to mistrust his great mercy toward us, but to be right well assured that he will give unto us all other things. Phy. This is also a great consolation and assurance unto us, in that we have the son of God to be our brother, truly man of our flesh, blood and bones, and in that same feeling our infirmities, he hath pity upon us Hebre. iiii. Ephe. two Hebr. ix. Rom. viii. making our peace towards the father, and maketh intercession for us. Wherefore we be first certified, that for the love of him we be pleasing and acceptable unto the father, and that by him we have conquered & overcome death, and be reisen again, and shall reign with him in heaven, and therefore hath he not taken the Angelical nature, but the seed of Abraham, for to assure us, that all that hath Hebr. two. been done in him shallbe in us, & touching our salvation. Nathana. These be mysteries and secrets of God well worthy to be known, and full of great consolation, so that when thou dost say that he was conceived by the holy ghost, thou wilt say that he hath taken human flesh, & hath been conceived in the womb of a woman, and that he hath the substance of his body of the woman which hath conceived him, Phy. I confess that he is truly man of our substance flesh, blood, and bones, but his conception differeth far from ours Nathana. I do not doubt that, but I desire much that thou wilt declare it unto me more plainly. Phy. He is not conceived by the operation of sinful man as we be, but by or of the holy ghost, in the womb of the virgin, as the angel did open & pronounce. Nata. And yet nevertheless Hebr. two. iiii. he hath a true human body as ours is. Phy. It is true, but yet without sin for if in him, had been any manner of spot of sin how should he have washed & made clean other, he himself being defiled, Natha. And therefore would he be conceived Psal. li. by the holy Ghost, and not in sin and wickedness as other men be, of the which the generation is all together corrupted. Phy. He would be conceived of celestial seed, for to make us celestial, & to unite man with God the heaven with the earth, as it shall be again declared more largely in this article following, where it is said that he is borne of the virgin Marie. Nata. What meanest thou by that. Phy. That as he was conceived by the holy Ghost, & hath taken the very nature, & humane The nativity of jesus christ. Psal. seven. Math. i two. Luke. two. flesh in the womb of the virgin, according as isaiah had before said: even so was he borne of the virgin without corruption, in Betheleem, according to the prophecy of Michee. Na. Wherefore dost thou make mention of the virgin mari. Phi. For to show that he is Gene. xxii. i. Samu. seven. Psal. Cxxxii the true Christ of the seed of Abraham, of juda & of David, in the which be accomplished the promises of God. Na. And what need was it to make mention of the mother? Phy. Because that he was promised to be borne of the seed Esai. seven Math. i of Abraham, & of David, of the which the virgin mary came, as the evangelists do witness. Natha. In as much as thou hast already expounded to me thy faith, touching the mystery of the incarnation of the son of god. Luke. i. two. iii. Let us follow now the other articles. It doth follow. He hath suffered under ponce Pilate, crucified, dead, and buried, what understandest The passion and death of Christ. thou by this article? Phy. That our Lord jesus Christ hath suffered death and passion for our sins, & by the same hath performed the mystery of our redemption, for the which he became man, and did take our nature upon him, for to no purpose should his conception & birth have served us, if that by his death he had not satisfied for us. Nata. wherefore makest thou mention of ponce Pilate? Phi. For to show in what time he hath suffered, by whom he was condemned, & how that he was Math. xvi. Luke. xviii. delivered into the hands of the gentiles & heathens, even as he had before spoken. Na. What was he that ponce Pilate? Phi. The provost Pilate. or judge, which held the place, & was deputy Math. xxvii. for the Emperor of Rome, under whom the jews at that time were subjects because of their sins, & for to declare that the time was come that the Christ ought to come, seeing the capture was taken away from the live of David, & from the house of juda, & that stranngers had over it dominion, according to the prophecy of Iacobe. Natha. What hath he then sustered under ponce Pilate? Phylype. divers injuries outrages and wounds, as the Evangelists do witness, and so finally by him condemned to death. nathanael. What had he done for to be condemned? Phy. Nothing but the work of god his father, for the which he was come. Natha. He was then unjustly and wrongfully condemned and put to innocent death Phylyp. If it had been other wise his death could not have profited us. Nata. Wherefore? Phylype. Because that if he had deserved his death, he should have died for his own sins, and not for ours, but in asmuch as he was unjustly condemned, by that condemption are we, which justly have deserved to be condemned, delivered and absolved before the judgement of God, & by the death, which he hath suffered have we life & our death by his is aboleshed and taken away. Nathanael. Wherefore do we say twice one thing, for crucified and dead, is it not all one? and would not one of them have sufficed? Phy. we confess that he was crucified, for to signify that his death hath not been simple & common as the death of malefactors, but the most cruel ignominious, and shameful, that was possible to be thought or Imagined that is to say the death of the cross. Natha. Wherefore was it more cruel and ignominious, than the other manners of death. Phy. first thou knowest well that all manner of deaths which man doth suffer by the sentence of the judge, and under the title of justice is more shameful slanderous, and more terrible than if a man should die natuturallye in his body, and yet did it not suffice unto the jews nor satisfy the madness & furor that did inflame them, against jesus Christ to cause him to be put to execution by justice, as he had been an evil doer, but did expressly demand of Pilate, that he should be crucified, because that the death of the cross was asorte of gallows the most detestable & hateful that was to be judged, or thought to be among men, for it was not used that evil doers should be hanged upon the cross but only they which were esteemed, the most execrable and abominable offenders, among the gentiles and paynim. nathanael. And did not the jews of custom punish their malefactors by the cross. Phy. That fashion was only used among the paynim, and because that Pilate their provost and judge was a panime, they prayed and earnestly moved him to cause jesus to be hanged upon the cross for to cause him the more to be in the shame and slander and hatred of the world. Natha. And in what manner did the jews cause their malefactors to die. Phy. As far as we can judge by the scriptures, they had four manners of execution, that is to say, stonning, burning, strangling, and with the sword. Natha. And who did purchase for jesus Christ this so shameful & ignominious a death. Phylyp. The envy and hatred of the jews but principally the Scribes and Phariseis, priests, bishops and princes, of Jerusalem. Na. Was it not in their power to choose, & elect the hind of death, of the which they desired that he should die. Phy. It was neither in their power, nor yet in the power of Pilate, to cause him to die, neither of that death, nor of any other but in his only, which was offered and sacrificed, because he would and hath given his life, when he would and hath taken it again when it pleased him, john. ●. wherefore it is not to be thought, that any thing of all this hath be done by adventure fortune or chance, or after the fantasies or appetites of men, but all by the providence and council of God, for if the jews might have Luke. iiii. killed him when they would, they had done it long before it was done, for they had often times enterprised it, and done all that they could, and yet could not bring it to pass because that the hour determined of the father was not come, & of the contrary part, when they would have deferred his death, unto an other day, they could not. For they did desire to put Math. xxvi. it of to after the feast of Ester, & had so concluded in their council, fearing the multitude and uproar of the people, and yet they could not so bring it to pass, but he was crucified, even at the time when they should celebrate their Ester, but that was not done without mystery, & a great providence of God for that is a great testimony unto us that did open & pronounce unto the jews that their Ester and all their cerrmonies were abolished, and that jesus Christ is the true paschal The true paschal. Exodi. xiii. john. i. ix. Lamb which was without spot and sacrificed, for to deliver us from the tyranny of the great Pharaoh, which is the devil. Natha. saying that it was in the power of jesus Christ to give his life, and to take it again when he would, wherefore did he rather chose and elect, that sort & kind of death, than any other? Phylyp. For many reasons. first for to accomplish the will of God his father & the scriptures and prophecies which were prophesied of him, he was figured by the red hefkere, the which must and was then used The red hefker. Hebr. xii. to be burned without the host, in the same manner, was jesus Christ driven out of the town of Jerusalem, and was led unto the mount of calvary, in the which place was the gibbet or gallowhouse for the punishment of the evil doers, and there was put to execution, as an evil doer because of our sins the which he took upon him, & were signified by the redness of the hefker, notwithstanding that he was pure & innocent, without ever having borne the yoke of the devil, nor of sin the which was represented by that, that the hefker was young without having borne ever any yoke. Na. I should many times have read that ceremony, before I should have understand what it did signify. Phy. It should have been very hard to have been understand, if jesus Hebr. xii. Christ by his deeds had not expounded it, & if also the Apostle had not opened unto us the understanding and showed how it must be applied unto jesus Christ. Natha. It is the same also that jesus Christ spoke of himself, in the parable of the evil keepers of the viniyarde, which did cast out the son of the owner of the viniyarde, and Math. xxii. killed him, because they would have his inheritance. But thou hast not yet expounded unto me what scripture had before said, that he should be hanged upon the cross. Phy. Thou haste first the figure of the serpent of brass, the which jesus Christ hath expounded of himself. For as that serpent of brass was lifted up in the desert for to The serpent of brass. Nun. xxi. john. iii. heal all them that did behold him: even so was it necessary, that jesus Christ should be hanged upon the tree, and be lifted up upon the cross for to heal all them that were mortally stricken and hurt, by the biting and venom of the old serpent, and as that serpent of brass had the very figure and shape of a serpent, and for all that was no serpent, nor had no venom, and yet by his means, they which were hytten with serpents were healed, although the medicine seemed very strange and inconvenient, even so jesus Christ, hath taken the form of a sinner, and yet was no sinner, but hath been the only medicine of all poor sinners which look, and behold him by faith, and putteth their salvation in his only death and passion. And notwithstanding that this same mean to save men seemeth very vile, abject and strange unto man's reason, understanding, and knowledge, which doth judge this wisdom of God, and preaching of the cross foolishness: i Cor. i. yet for all that as there was neither physic, surgery, medicine, nor remedy, that might heal them that were bitten with serpents, but the beholding of the serpent of brass, which had been made & set up by the commandment of God: Even so have we neither physic, surgeri, medicine, nor other remedy against sin & death, to get us salvation but jesus Christ crucified, which is given us of God, for it doth not appertain unto us, to elect or choose the medicine, but unto God the sovereign medicine, which only may heal us of that mortal sickness, and only knoweth the remedy that to us is effectual, and giveth it unto such as it pleaseth him, and such as he giveth, is only sufficient and meet, and there is none other that is any thing worth, and which bringeth not rather death than life. Nathana. Who would ever have thought, and that under the history of the serpent of brass, we should have found so many & goodly secrets, covered, and hidden, and therefore I am not now abashed, though the word of God, seem folly unto carnal men, which can not judge spiritually, nor be receivable of so high a doctrine, the which surmounteth and passeth all men's understanding. But is there yet any other scripture which hath signified this same cross of jesus? De●. xxvii. Gala. iii Phy. There is likewise written in the law. Unhappy or accursed be he that is hanged on the tree, and because that we were most unhappy, and accursed by our sins, he would bear that curse and malediction, hanging upon the tree of the cross, for to deliver us, and to make us partakers of the blessing and benediction promised in the seed of Abraham, which is our Lord jesus Christ. And furthermore Gene. xxii. Esai. lv. Psal xxii. Luke. xxiii. it must needs have been, that he should so have been humiliated, beneath or under all men, and that he should be the opprobry & the last, or the lest of all men, and reputed as a worm and not as a man, he must also have been hanged among thieves, and reputed among sinners, fastened unto a tree, and appointed and ordained unto all hind of vituperie, slander, and outrage according to the prophecy principally of David & Esai. nathanael. I believe well by this, that there was a great providence, of God, in all these things for the time, the place, the persons, and all the doings, which be written in the history of his death and passion, agree mer●eylouslye well with that which the Prophets had before said, but in asmuch as thou hast expounded unto me, the cause where fore we do make mention, that he was crucified: tell me also for what purpose doth it serve, to put to that he is dead? The death of jesus. Phylype. The more plainly to witness that he was not only tormented, and set about with the dolors, and cruel torments of death, but according to his human nature, is truly and verily dead as man Math. xxvii. Luke. xxiii. john. nineteen. without any manner of cauteill or doubt. And took his end upon the cross, and gave up his human spirit, the which he did recommend unto his father, for in his death doth lie the principal point of our salvation, for in asmuch as it was necessary that he should die, for our sins, if he had not been truly and very lie dead, we should be yet subjects unto eternal Death and damnation. nathanael. For what cause do we make mencinon of his Sepulchre, saying that he was buried? Phyly. For the more greater confirmation of his death, and to signify the mystery of jonas The sepulchre of Christ. The sign of jonas. john. two. Math. xii. in him accomplished, as he himself did openly declare unto the jews. Natha. What sygue was that? Phy. As jonas was cast into the sea, for to appeise the rage and tempest, which was moved by the Ire of God, and was received by the whale, abiding three days, and three nights, in the deep & rage of the sea, within the belly of the whale, & the third day was cast up upon the shore alive, without any hurt or damage. Even so was it necessary that jesus Christ was cast into the deep and bottom of death, which had thought to have swallowed him up, for to appease the Ire of God, and that he should be in the bailie of the earth, as jonas was in the belly of the whale, and that he should rise the third day as anon shallbe said. Natha. Behold here is a goodly mystery, and well opened when it is examined nearly. Phylip. Yea certainly, for who would ever have thought or believed, that jonas being so in the deep, should have escaped the death & that our Lord jesus Christ in death should have found us life, and that after such a confution upon the cross, having been cast down even unto the gates of hell, which had thought to have devoured him, he was raised up into such glory, power, and majesty, and that by his death, the fury of God was abated & pacified, as the tempest of the sea, and quietness was given unto men, and the peace made between God and them. nathanael. Had he not well enough risen again without being buried? Phylyp. Yes well enough if he had would, but he would thus accomplish this mystery, and give a more evident, and irreprovable sign of his resurrection. Natha. touching what? Phy. touching that, that he was buried by two Math. xxvii. Luke. xxiii. john. nineteen. honest persons, Nichodemus, and joseph of Aromathia, by the will and consent of Pilate, which did deliver unto them the body, and they did honestly bury it in a tomb, all new cut out of stone, wherein never none before had been put. To the end, that none might aledg, that some other living had been there hidden, to counterfeit his resurrection, or that some other dead before him, were risen and not he, or that he was not risen again, by his own power, and virtue, but rather by the virtue of some other holy person, which might have been there before buried, as he that did rise again when he was cast into the Sepulchre of Elizee, or that he had touched 4. Kings. xiii. his body. Natha. And what doth signify the article following, which saith He is descended into hell. Phy. That is a point, which hath not been of ancient in the crede, as it doth appear Descending of Christ into hells, by the same which Saint Cyprian doth use but hath been sense put to, for the declaration of the things going before. Natha. How sayest thou that this hath been put to? Hath not the Apostles made this Crede, every one of them putting to his article, unto the numbered of. xii, as it is commonly taken? Phy. We read not in the holy scriptures, nor in any history worthy of faith, that the apostles have so brought the christian faith into. xii. articles, nor that every one of them hath put to his part in any such manner. Natha. Is not there. xii. articles of the faith? Phy. The faith is single and one, and according to the declaration that we make, we may comprehend it in more, or in fewer articles, wherefore if is all one, to account. xii. or more, or less, so that it be well declared and understand. Natha. Wherefore do we call those. xii. articles, the creed of the Apostles, if the apostles made them not? Phy. We may well say the Apostles made them, in as much as they have opened the doctrine, wholly comprised in the same, containing the sum of the apostolic & christian faith the which they have preached as that which we also ought to believe, as it hath already been said. Nata. How so ever it be I pray the let us come unto the declaration of this matter. Phy. We must first know what hell is, and then it shall be easy to understand how he is descended. Natha. What callest thou hell them. Phylyp. It is in this necessary to consider in what signification the holy scripture doth use it. Natha. That is that, which I do ask. Phy. We do find hell in the usage of the holy Gene. xliiii. Esai. xxiiii scriptures, and principally in the old testament, for the death, for the grave, and for the state and condition of them that be departed of the which all the scripture doth bear witness, & therefore do we call it hell, which is a word taken of latin, & doth signify as much as a low & inferior place, because we do put the body in the grave within the earth lower than our habitation. Natha. Is that the proper signification? Phyly. That is the first, that it doth signify in the scriptures. Nata. Is there then other? Phy. Yea, but they do hang upon the same, For as the death, and the grave is the end & consummation of man, as concerning this world: even so hell is taken for the extreme dangers, miseries, dolours, & anguishs, that man may suffer, and by the which he is darkened or brought unto death. Nathanael. Vnderstandeste thou none other thing by hell? Phylype. It is also likewise taken sometime for the pain dew for sin for the judgement and wrath of God, and for the bottom and mischief of all evil things, & of all miseries, and unhappiness, and because 〈◊〉. xvi. Math. xvi. that in the death, and in the grave, there is no thing but stinking infection, darkness, and perpetual horror, it is sometime taken for to siguifie the state, condition, and the place of the damned, otherwise called Gehenue, because that their death is not unto life, & that they Luke. xvi. Marc. v do abide in the same in perpetual darkness, of the which the grave is their beginning. Natha. According to which of these significations, ought we to understand that jesus Christ is descended into hell? Phy. According unto all. Natha. How so. Phy. first thou must note that he doth not say in the singular numbered. He is descended into hell, as though he did speak of a place certain, whereunto he was gone. But in the plural. He is descended to the hells, comprehending all that which he had said before. He hath suffered under ponce Pilate, crucified, dead, and buried. Natha. And did it not suffice, to have already said the same by other words, for if descended into hells doth signify no further, what need was it to put to this article? Phy. Albeit that it do comprehend all that which already hath been said, yet is it not put to without cause, for it doth better open and declare that which hath been said, & doth also better declare unto us, the virtue, and efficatie of the death and passion of our Lord jesus Christ & doth give us to understand what condemnation he hath borne, & how far the virtue of his death hath extended. Natha. Expound the same a little better unto me by particulars. Phi. When our Lord jesus Christ had suffered, and endured so many outrages, & blasphemies, as when he did sweat blood, and was full of anguish in his Luke. xxii Math. xvi. soul, even unto the death, and was shamefully hanged between thieves, as forsaken of God & of all creatures, without help, favour, or consolation, and did yield up his spirit upon the tree of the cross, where he was hanged, bearing the curse, Ire, and furore, of God, which is the very hell, feeling in himself the condemnation, pains, and sorrows, which we had deserved for our sins, than was he truly descended into hells, which had weaned to have devoured him, but they could not because he was without sin. Nathana. Is he no otherwise descended into hell? Phy. He was also descended, when he was put Ephe. iiii. into the sepulchre, & is descended into the low parts of the earth, as the Apostle doth say. Nathana. Did not his soul, and his spirit descend to the saints & fathers, which were dead before his coming? Phylyp. Yes, Natha. Where were they? Phy. In the bosom of Abraham. Natha. What place was that? Phy. The place of rest and blessedness, where all they were received, which were dead in that faith of Abraham, which is the faith in our Lord jesus Christ. Natha. Is that limbo, where they be deprived of all the joys of Paradise? Phy. I have not read in any place in all the holy scripture that maketh mention of any such limbo. Natha. was it then in purgatory? Phy. jesus Christ descended well into purgatory when he did humble & cast down himself, even unto the most bitter death of the cross shedding his precious blood, for to wash, & purge our sins, & for the same did obtain remission and grace, other purgatory doth not the scripture know, but that same which hath efficatie in us by faith, which purifieth the hearts. Natha. How is he then descended to the fathers, and where was the bosom of Abraham? Phy. I have said that hell signifieth also the estate and condition of them that be dead & departed, wherefore when jesus Christ was dead and buried, he was descended to them that be dead and departed that is to say, that he is dead for them, and hath borne the pain that they had merited and deserved, after such sort, that the virtue force, and efficatie of the death of jesus, is extended not only unto them which were alive, but also unto all them which have been sense Adam, and were dead Gene. iii. in the faith of that promised seed, unto the which jesus Christ hath been made fellow dyeinge as they, and descending into the grave as they, to the end that they should be partakers of the resurrection and glory of him, which is saviour of the living & dead. Nath. It seemeth by thy words that thou dost abolish both limbo and purgatory. Phy. God furbide that I should aboleish purgatory, for it is the same in the which I have all my hope, & without the which I should whollis despair of my salvation, for I do know well that no polluted and unclean thing can Cor. xv. entre into the kingdom of heaven, except it be purged & made clean, but in deed I know no other purgatory, but the blood of jesus The true purgatory. Christ, nor yet any fire which hath power & virtue to purge our sins, but that of his holy spirit, & as for limbo I could never find any in all the holy scripture, I could never see so many divers estates of them that be departed as the priests & monks fain, lodging some in paradise, & other in hell, & other in purgatory, & other in limbo, I do not find in the holy scripture but of. two. estates, & conditions, the which our Lord jesus Christ, hath represented and set forth unto us, in the example of the Rich man, and Lazarus, there is but one estate of the happy and blessed, and another of the reproved. Natha. Unto which of those did jesus Christ descend. Phyly. Unto both but in divers sorties he is descended to the dampened & unhappy which be dead in unbelief, when they have felt that they were deprived of the merit of his death and passion, and of the grace, and salvation, which he brought unto his elected, & when they felt the ire, malediction & curse of God aggravated and augmented, alway more and more upon them, but he is descended unto his elected, when that by his divine virtue, he hath made them, to feel the virtue and efficatie of the death, which he suffered for them, and the fruit of his passion, wherefore I do conclude, that they which do believe that there is a Limbo, for the little children that be dead borne, and a purgatory other than the blood of jesus, for to purge the souls of the faithful departed: do not believe that jesus Christ, descended into hell, and that his virtue should be of such efficatie, that it might come and extend unto the dead, to their salvation, for if they did perfectly believe that, they would have no further care for the dead, but would leave them in the hands of jesus christ which is saviour, of the little and great, of the living and dead, and would not think that the dead had any more need of them. Nam We have tarried enough upon this article, but in deed it was necessary to make it something more clear, for the matter was very dark, but thou hast now so well opened it, that I am satisfied, wherefore let us come unto this article following which sayeth. The third day he rose from the dead. What is the sense The resurrection. of that article? Phy. The same which we have all ready touched, speaking of the sepulchre of jesus Christ, and of the sign of jonas. Natha. Hath he abidden three days and three nights in the earth as jonas did in the belly of the whale? Phi. It was not needful, that he should be in the sepulchre three nights wholly, it was enough that he did rise again the third day after he was dead, as he hath done in deed. nathanael. Was that the third day, when he did arise? Phy. Yea truly, for the day that he did give Math. xxvii Marc. xv. Luke. xxiii. john. xvi. Math. xxviii. john. xx up the spirit, which was the evening of the night before the jews Ester, he was buried, and that was the first day of the morrow, which was the day of the feast, he was all the day in the sepulchre. Then upon the day following in the break of the day very tymelye he did arise, and that was the third day, as it doth appear by the Evangelists. Na. Wherefore is this article put to? Phy. Because that all the other could little serve us without this. Natha. How so? Phy. Because that if jesus Christ had not risen, it should have been an evident testimony, that death had vanquished him, & that hell should have swallowed him, as it bid the children of Adam. Then if he had been vanquished, and had not overcome, vanquished i Cor. xv. and gotten the victory, he had not satisfied for us, but we should have bidden still in our sins and in death. Natha. The resurrection of jesus Christ is then a certain testimony of his virtue, and a sure trust & hope that we shall arise again with him. Phyli. That is the cause wherefore we believe his resurrection, & wherefore he would testify Math. xxviii. Marc. xvi. Luke. xxiii. john. nineteen. oy so many signs & apparitions, being after his resurrection. xl. days conuersa●nte with his disciples showing himself unto them in drinking, eating, speaking, and suffering to touch his body, and his wounds the more plainly, and assuredly to prove unto them the resurrection of his body. Natha. We have then enough of our resurrection in his, but wherefore do we say yet more. He is gone up into heaven, when is he gone up, and in what form and manner? 〈◊〉 ascension. 〈◊〉 Math. xxviii. Phylype. Forty days after his resurrection, when he had well approved his sa●●ed resurrection he did bring his disciples unto Marc. xvi. the mountaygne of Olives, and fronthense did mount and go up visibly, before them which did behold him, going up unto a cloud did come betwixt him and them, which did cause them to lose the sight of him. They had also the testimony of the Angels saying that he was gone up into heaven. nathanael. Into what heaven understandest thou that he is gone up? for thou haste show t● in the first article, that there be divers manners Ephe. iiii. of heavens. Phylype. The Apostle doth say, that he is gone up above all heavens, for to fulfil and accomplish all things, wherefore I do understand that he is gone up into the celestial Timo. vi. glory, higher than the visible heaven, and higher than all creatures into the inaccessible light, where is the habitation and seat of God, out of all and all manner of corruption and mortality. nathanael. In what sense ought we then properly to understand this ascension? Phylype. I understand by the same, that he hath taken his corporal presence, from here john. xvi. beneath, as he had before said unto his disciples, and that he is gone up verily in body above all heavens into the glory & majesty of God his father, as it shallbe more declared anon, when we shall say. He is set down upon the right hand of God the father almighty. The right hand of God Nath. What understandest thou by the right hand of God? Phy. I do not understand that God the father is set in a feat or throne that is visible and material, as a terrenal king. And jesus Christ in another by him, as his son, or as one of his princes. Natha. How then? Phy. It is a similitude taken of humane things, for to give us to understand, that as a king or a prince doth make sit down by him, and on his right hand, him whom he will most honour, and unto the which he will give most power and authority: even so we understand by these words, that jesus Christ is set up above all creatures, and that he hath power, as well in heaven as in earth, and doth reign with the father, having Math. xxviii. equal power & Lordship. Natha. And what doth it serve us to believe, & know all these things, and in how many ways may we use them to our furtherance and profit? Phyly. In divers, but to the end I may the better show the by order, because there be many goodly points, worthy to be touched, let us here make an end of this part, and in the other next, we shall not treat of any other matter, but of this, which thou haste now set forth nor shall not declare any other article before I shall have declared unto the what fruits thou mayest bear of these things whereof we have spoken at this present and how these things may be used and applied to our profit. Natha. That will be a day that I hope shall not be evil employed, and to the which I have great desire. Phy. Thou shalt not be deceived of thy hope. In this dialogue shallbe showed the manner how we must have in contemplation, the history of jesus Christ, and how many ways we may use it to our profit. Phylype. THe great desire that I have seen the have in these days paste, Nathanael, In the declaration of the articles of our faith and religion: hath given me great courage to declare them unto the. Nathana. There is no double but as the good master doth make a good disciple, so a good disciple causeth the master to be better and the more diligent, for it is unto him as unto a good husband man, which willingly ploweth the ground, which he knoweth to be good and fertile, and will well answer him his labour, & to the end thy labour may be always more profitable towards me: begin to show unto me the utility & profitie that may come unto me of these things I have learned of the. Phy. We have two points the which we must principally consider, in the death and resurrection The manner to havein contemplation the history of jesus Christ of our Lord jesus Christ, the first is that cometh unto us by the satisfaction, redemption, and salvation that we receive, and the other or the second, is the example we ought to take for to conform ourselves unto jesus Christ our head, and so to learn patience of him wherein to nourish our faith hope and love. Natha. Expound this unto me more larglye, for I understand not well what thou wouldest say. Phylype. For to make the thing more easy unto thee, I shall set it forth by examples, by the which I shall show the the practice of that which I understand herein. first when I do consider that jesus Christ hath suffered, Math. xxvi Luke. xxii. how he hath prayed unto God his father in the garden, and hath sweat blood, how he was taken, bound, mocked, and lead Mar. xv. juhn. xviii unto Annas, Cayphas, Herode, and Pilace, how he was judged, condemned, nailed, and hanged, upon the cross, how he was scratched, buffeted, whipped, beaten, owtraged, & blasphemed, how there was given him to drink vinegar gall, & myrrh, how that he was Psal. xxii forsaken of all creatures, & abimed unto the hells, how he did cry my God, my God why hast thou forsaken me, how he was dead, gave up the spirit, and shed all his blood, nailed and hanged upon the cross between thieves and evil doers. When I do diligently consider all these things, I do learn by the same to know how Knowledge of the jugment of God & of sin by the death of jesus much the judgement of God is horrible, fearful and importable, and how much that displeaseth him, and in what error and abhourmation we ought to have it, For when I do see the proper son of God, in such anguish and distress, and do see that well-beloved son sweat blood of the only fear and reprehension, which he had of the death prepared for him, and of the Ire, furor, and malediction of God, which he should suffer and bear, not for his own sins, from the which he was pure and clean but for mine, have I not then good occasion, to be troubled, and in fear may I not say well that which jesus Christ said unto the poor women that followed him weeping, when he was led to be put to execution, and crucified upon the mount of calvary? If this Luke. xxiii. be done unto the green tree, what shall be done unto the dry? If the good tree be after this soorte rejected and cast away, what shall be come of the evil, if God have not spared his own proper son, being just, righteous, and innocent, because of the sins of other, the which he would bear: how shall he pardon me, which am covered with mine own proper sins, from the top of my head, unto the sole of my foot, may I not well esteem what ought to be the pain and torment of the damned the which God hath wholly forsaken, cursed, and rejected, without leaving unto them any manner of hope of salvation, when I do call to remembrance jesus Christ forsaken of God, cast into such fear and deepness of all evils, and cursings but for that little time that the father and his divinity had withdrawn their favour aid, and assistance from him as though he had all together been left and forsaken as they which be in the eternal Ire of God. nathanael. Thou puttest me in fear and horror to here the speak, for certainly this consideration ought to make us to detest & have sin in a marvelous abomination & more to hate it then the pestilence, or any other unhappiness that can be in the world saying it doth make men so detestable before God, casting them down into such deepness of malediction, and hath been the cause that the proper son of God, hath suffered a death so cruel, terrible and fearful. Phylype. The remembrance and contemplation of this ought well to give us occasion to humble ourselves, for it doth give us knowledge of the greatness of our sins saying they be such that none could remedy nor satisfy for them but the proper son of God, it doth ministre also unto us, occasion to accuse and condemn ourselves, and not rigoriouslye to accuse judas the which betrayed him, and the jews which persecuted Who hath betrayed & crucified jesus. Hebre. vi. and crucified him, for it is we which have betrayed, cratched, buffeted, and delivered him unto death, and do daily crucify him by our sins, without the which he had never suffered, nor they should have had no such power over him. We have then good occasion to be displeased with ourselves and to flee from sin, and so to keep us ever from crucifiing of him. Natha Thou sayest true, but we think little thereon, and do but smallly esteem the torments that he hath suffered for us and the precious blood which he shed, & the price wherewith we be bought. Phylyp. And yet nevertheless is that the way and manner how we ought to say and understand our Crede, and yet is there more for as the knowledge of my sins, and judgement Gene. iiii. Math. xxviii of God, is enough to cast me down into despair, as cain and judas, and to overthrow & cast me down lower than the hells. Act. i. Even so of the contrary part, when I am assured by the word of God that jesus Christ hath endured and suffered all this for me to the end that I should be delivered and should not be subject unto that same terrible judgement of God, I do receive a great consolation, and do feel a marvelous joy and ease in my heart, the which doth incite move and steer me up, more than can be believed, to give thanks unto that same our most good and celestial father, the which hath so much loved me, that he hath not spared his own proper son, but hath given john. three Rom. viii. him for me, and unto that same good saviour likewise, which had so fervent a love, and charity towards me that he would not refuse the death, nor to give his life for me, poor misirable sinner, albeit that I was his enemy as touching my part, and unworthy to behold the sun, and go upon the earth. Na. Without doubt this consideration ought well to inflame us in the love of that good god, & of the same our saviour jesus Christ. Phylyp. For this cause hath he instituted his The institution of ●he supper. Math. xxvi. i Cor. x. xi. holy ceane or supper, to the end that the remembrance of this great benefit should of●en be had and refreshed among us, & thereby the better imprinted in our hearts, and to make us the better to feel the virtue and efficatie to grow in faith charity, and all good works, and so to hold and keep us in the office of true christians (for by these visible signs of the which the signification is declared us by his word, & by his holy spirit, of the which sacraments do take they● efficatye) the lively Image of his death and passion is cepresented unto us. And therefore The memory of Christ to be celebrated in the supper. when this bread dedicated unto the Sacrament representeth unto me the body of jesus delivered unto death for me, and the w●●● the blood which hath been shed to wash my sins: I do codsi●re how jesus Christ hath been bound, led unto Pilate, judged, condemned, and delivered into the haudes of the hangmen, crucified, dead, and buried, and after risen from the dead, and ascended into heaven, & this may ● not only consider as a cloud, or as a simple history, or as the legend life or death of some martyr, or some holy saint, but I must consider that jesus being bound for me as a strong Sanson, hath broken the bonds of death, & damnation, & hath unbound me with himself. When I consider him before the judge, & here the sentence given against him, I do them here mine own absolution, & deliveranc for he was led before the judge, I of him condemned & again delivered into the hands of the executioners, to the end that I should not be codemned at the judgement of God, & delivered into the hands of he devils, and sent into everlasting fire, but that I might plead for me his righteousness, & so to win my cause & find favour before the great eternal judge and that I may say with the apostle. Who Rom. viii. shall lay accusation against the elect of god, for God is he that justifieth, and jesus christ is our leader, advocate and intercessor, go we then unto the throne of grace, and we shall Timo. two. i. john. two. Hebr. two. iiii. find favour and salvation in time convenient. Natha. I do find this manner of remembrance of the death and passion of our Lord jesus Christ much better and more consolation in it, then in that which the monks do teach us in preaching the passion on good friday for they preach it us after such sort that we Monkish meditation of the passion of Christ. learn nothing but to despise and be angry with judas and the jews, and do not consider that it is we ourselves, which be the judas and the jews, which by ours sins have so outrageously entreated him, against whom we ought not to be angry. And further they show unto us Images and crucifixes for to learn us to weep, as the poor women did weep which followed him when Luke. xxiii. he was led to be crucified, after such sort as we weep for an evil doer, or some other good man which were innocently put to death where as we ought rather to weep over, and for ourselves and for our own children and so to lament languor, and sigh for our own faults, and sins, & so far as I can conceive or understand by thy words, there is a great difference between the death of jesus Christ and that of the martyrs, for that of the martyrs can not serve us for any satisfaction and redemption for our sins as that Difference between the suffering of martyrs & Christ. of jesus Christ, but only for an example of faith strength and conscience, but that of jesus Christ doth serve us for both. Phy. It is very well understand of the and thou couldst have said no better. I would to God that every one did understand it so well as thou, and then the Sophisters should not have joined the death and suffering of the martyrs with that of jesus Christ, for to make it meritorious unto salvation, and remission of sins for us as though that of jesus Christ were not sufficitiente, and but little difference from that of the martyrs. They would not also have corrupted the sense of the words of Saint Paul, for to recompense by the tribulation and suffering of saints, Colo. i. that which seemeth unto them to want in that of jesus Christ, nor would not have forged the works of supererogation, and of superaboundaunce, and their treasure of the church into the which they gather together all the merits of saints, and make them selves distributers of them by their keeps, and by the applying of their ceremonies, sacrifices, bulls, & pardons, as though there were other merit, then that of jesus Christ, and other manner to appli it, then by the preaching of his Gospel and administration of his sacraments, & to receive and communicate them by the true lively faith the which only is receivable of them. And further if all did understand this matter well, not only the monks should learn otherwise to preach the passion, but the priests also should be content to represent them unto us, by the preaching of his word, and the true usage of his sacraments, The true representation of the passion. they would hold themselves unto the ordinance of his holy Ceane, & would unloode themselves of so many foolish vain and childish ceremonies which they have in their mass, by the which they will represent them unto us, as one should plai a juggling caste, or as it were a play of little children. They take a kerchief in stead of a crown of thrones, they have their maniple, their stole & a girdle of a cord, in stead of the cords, bonds, and cross, which jesus Christ did bear, they have their albe and great shirt in stead of his gown that Herode gave him. And to be short it doth seem perfectly that they willbe disguised for to play or dance a bet-morres or to make little children fir, were it not much better to be content with the simple ordinance of jesus Christ, & to hold them unto that holy ceane that he hath instituted, as Saint Paul hath set it forth unto the Corinthians, and as the Apostles, and the primitive church did, and to remember and have in contemplation the death and passion of jesus christ in our hearts, and to rest ourselves in the fruit & consolation, that it bringeth unto us then to play such casts, and to disguise themselves in such sort before the simple people, and to seek to draw them only into the admiration, and extolling of outward ceremonies, and so to draw them altogether from the true and healthful contemplation of the death and passion of jesus Christ, and to deprive them of the fruit, the which they ought to receive by the same? For when I do remember jesus Christ upon the cross: I do see him with the eyes of my faith give up the spirit, I do see him put into the Sepulchre, risen, and ascended into heaven. What need have I then of such illusions and painted conveyance for to draw me from this holy and profound consideration for my faith doth make jesus Christ present unto me, even as though he were pained and crucified even before my own eyes. I doth set him forth before me as a strong Samson, which breaketh the gattes of his enemies, and beareth them upon his shoulders, and doth kill and destroy more in dying than in living, I do see how jesus Christ being crucified doth crucify the devil, being nailed doth nail, shedding his blood i Cor. xv. Math. xxvii john. xiiii. Roma. v taketh away the bond of death, which he had against us, in dying, killeth death, sin and brouseth, and treadeth down the head of the old serpent, he openeth the Sepulchres, and giveth life unto the dead, when he entereth into the Sepulchre, and descendeth into hells as we have said he entereth into the house of death, & into the strength of the armed man, and of the prince of this world, & doth despoil & break down all their force strength and power. Nathanael. If his death be so stroung what ought then to be his resurrection and life. Phylype. I leave that to thyself to consider and therefore when I do see him risen, I do Colo. two. The fruit of the resurrection & ascension. see my flesh risen with his, I do see him as victorious, leading sin, the world, death hell, and Satan, in show and triumph, all overcome and cast down, in such sort that they have no more power upon all the elected which believe in him, than they have had upon jesus Christ. When I see him ascended into heaven, and am certain that he is set upon the right hand of God, and that he doth reign with the father eternally. This faith also doth bring assurance and certifieth me, that when he is gone up, he hath borne and lift up my flesh and my body, & hath opened me the way unto the celestial glory, and that he being our head hath taken possession for us. Natha. Then his resurrection and his ascension be unto us certain testimonies, seals, & confirmation of ours. Phy. There is nothing more certain, and we ought no less to be assured, that we shall arise and reign with him, then that we be of him, for in asmuch as he hath taken our flesh even as it in him hath suffered, & hath borne the judgement and maledition of god and is dead, even so it is risen in him and exalted into the glory of God, above all the heavens, & therefore he is called the first fruit of them that sleep & first borne of the dead not because he is first risen among men, for other were risen before him, that is to say they which were raised as well by him as by the prophets, but because that this is the first, and he only which is risen by his own divine virtue and power, and is the beginning, original and fountain of the resurrection & life of all the other, which die, and rise in him, and by him, and the better to confirm and seal this hope in our hearts, he hath given us a gage and hath taken of us, to the end he would not leave us in doubt, he hath taken jesus hath taken pledge of us, & hath left us of his. Ephe. i. Roma. viii, john. i i. Petre. i our flesh the which he hath borne into heaven, by the which we be already put into possession, and be set in the celestial places with him, and of the other part he hath given us his holy spirit to confirm and seal the promises in our hearts which doth testify unto our spirit that we be the children of God. seeing then that we be the children of God, and have his divine seed in us, we ought not to doubt but that jesus Christ hath made us partakers of his divine nature even as he would communicate unto ours, and would be made man, for to make us Gods that is to say Godly, holy, & spiritual. Then even as the wheat which is sown in the earth dieth in the same, & doth sprout john. xii. Cor. xv. spring and take root, and after cometh out groweth and bringeth forth good fruit: even so likewise shall we be assured that when we die, & be put into the earth, we be sown & shall take again & arise immortal, & incorruptible, in as much as we bear with us the sprout or springe of the spirit of God which can not die, though the flesh be corrupt, but shall deliver this body from corruption which shall be raised up by the virtue of him, which hath raised up jesus Christ, from the dead and shall vinifie, and raise up our mortal membres. Nathan. Here is a goodly exercise of faith and a goodly practice of christian doctrine of the which we ought not only to be learners, and doctors in contemplation, but also good practicians for to bring it in daily ure. Phy. There is yet an other point which is no less worthy to be noted, that is, when we believe that jesus raineth in heaven, set upon the right hand of God, that doth assure Consolation against all temptations. & give us a marvelous consolation against all temptations and dangers, for it is no small thing, to have in the celestial court, and before the face of that great eternal God, such a friend as jesus Christ, which is very God, & very man, which also hath power in heaven, and is inheritor of the kingdom of God, for we can not doubt, in asmuch as he always appeareth before the face of God but he is intercessor for us, and is our mediator, and advocate, leader, conductoure, and gubernatoure, wherefore we have none occasion to be afeard of any thing in heaven or in earth, if we firmly and assuredly trust in him. For in asmuch as he is very God, we can in no wise doubt but that he hath all power asmuch as he is one substance & power with the father, we ought not to doubt but that all that the father hath is his, and for as much as he hath been obedient even unto the death of the cross, and that he is his well-beloved son, we have no cause to fear that the father should deny any thing that he asketh of him, nor Phil. two. Math. xxvii. john xiiii. Ephe. v. Hebr. two. Colo. i. two. Ephe. i. that we shall ask, and demand of him in his name, of the other part in asmuch as jesus Christ is very man, our spouse, & our brother of our flesh, of our blood and of our bones, and that he is our head and we his membres, we ought not to doubt but that he loveth us, and hath pity and compassion of us, and will not renay his flesh & his blood, suffering to perish, his espouse and his membres, for this cause hath he put upon him our flesh and hath taken all our infirmities, and hath been tempted in all things without sin, to the end we should be certain, that we have a bishope that is not Esai. xiii. Hebr. i iiii. v ignorant of our infirmities, not without having any compassion of them, nor that he fealethe them less than we, nor that there cometh any thing unto his membres, but it toucheth him, which is the head as it doth appear well by the words which he spoke unto Saul, persecuting him in his membres, and that as head he is ready to deliver us from all evils, as he hath been delivered. Natha. If we believe then firmly, this article, it seemeth unto me, we have no need to run unto the holy saints which are departed from this world, nor to pray unto them to be our advocates, intercessors, and Invocation of saints leaders unto God. Phy. It is very certain that such invocation of saints doth proceed but of error and infidelity, and for lack of the knowledge of jesus Christ, and we can not deny but they that seek any other advocate than jesus christ be very far from the faith, which we confess in these two articles, of the ascension of jesus Christ, and of his celestial reign, and that yet more is, they do declare manifestly that they do not understand the mystery of the incarnation of the son of god, for wherefore was it necessary that the son of God should be made man, but for to conjoin and knit man to God. Then if we will well Deut. iiii. conjoin two things together that differ & be of divers natures it is requisite to have a third that should approach, & hold of both natures, for to conjoin and, unite them, or other wise there can be no very perfect and true communion, and principally if the natures be contrary and repungnauntes one to an other, than what agreement could there be between God and man. The fire consuming the thrones, the light the darkness, justice & Hebr. two. two. Cor▪ xv. injustice, blessing and cursing, life & death heaven, and hell, there is no more between god & man, if we consider man in his nature, it was then much more than necessary that we should have a mediator for to make this agreement & conjunction which should be partaker of both the natures & yet without sin, & that he should be very God & very man, for to conjoin man unto God, and then is there none such but jesus Christ, wherefore it doth necessarily and infalbly follow that none other might be our mediator, advocace, & patron, but jesus Christ only, as the holy Apostle testifieth, for when he said, there is one God and one mediator of God, and of men, the 1. Timo. two man jesus Christ, and the same hath been the price of our ransom, these words be Deut. vi as much as though he should have said, as there is but one God, the which nevertheless is sufficient to all creatures, as one sun to shine over all the world: even so is there but one mediator which is jesus Christ, which only hath paid our ransom being only suffitiente, deputed, and appointed properly unto that office. S. john doth say no less, when he doth write. My children, i. john. two, I do not sai this unto the end ye should sin, but if we have sinned we have an advocate toward the father, even jesus Christ being just which is the propition not only for our sins, but also for all that be in the world & therefore did. S, john Baptist, call him the john. i. Lamb of god, that taketh away the sins of the world, &. S. Paul calleth him our peace Ephe. two. Colo. i. which pacifieth all things as well in heaven as in earth, by the blood of his cross, saint john doth not say, when ye have sinned, come unto me the well-beloved disciple, which have slept in the bosom of jesus christ, & in his lap, & I shallbe your advocate to the virgin Marie his mother, the which by him was recommended unto me, & hath loved & taken me as her child, he doth not say also turn and address john. xvi. yourselves unto the virgin Marie, or unto the Apostles mi fellows, or to the prophets & patriarchs that be dead, but doth put himself in the company & role of sinners, saying if we have sinned, we have an advocate towards the father, by the which words he doth give us manifestli to know, that he doth confess himself to be a sinner by nature & hath need as well as other, of our saviour jesus christ, to be his advocate toward the father celestial without whom he should have been lost & dampened, he had not forgotten that which he heard of his master, & that which himself put in writing, the which ha●h not said, what soever ye ask of my father in the name of mi mother, or of the prophets, or disciples shallbe given unto you: but hath said, that which ye shall ask & demand of my father in my Math. xi. Hebr. v. name. For as he doth say in an other place, None can come unto the father but by me and the Apostle doth testify, not only, that he hath prayed for us with great cries, tears, Roma, viii, and weepings, and was herd, but doth also testify that he is now upon the right hand of God, where he incessantly maketh intercession for us. Natha. It is not possible that I can resist or again say, that which thou haste said, except I would go, and withstand the clear word of God, but they which do maintain the invocation of saints, do confess that they take jesus Christ, for their mean and advocate, but yet they will nevertheless have the saints with him. Phylype. That is even as much to say, as they hold him not for sufficient alone, and do attribute unto him no more then unto every of the other saints, and so will win or get their cause before God, by the multitude and force of advocates, for other jesus Christ is sufficient, or he is not, and if he be sufficient, he hath no need of fellows, and if he be not suffitiente, he is not jesus Christ nor is not set at the right hand of God his father. Natha. They will reply well-enough unto all that, for they will confess thee, of jesus Christ all that thou wilt, with their mouths, but they say that notwithstanding that jesus Christ is our advocate toward the father yet nevertheless, as we have need of him for to be our advocate towards the father: even so it is necessari for us to have other advocates Intercessors to Christ. john. xvi. toward him, for inasmuch as he is god, & we be sinners, & god doth not exalt, and hear sinners, we have need of the saints, which be more perfect than we, to be our intercessors toward him. Phy. We must have then a great train of intercessors, and advocates, and in the end we must have intercessors, toward the saints, because we shall not be worthy enough for to address our prayers unto them. Natha. We have them already, for the priests, monks, friars, and nunes, maketh us believe Intercessors to saints. that they be our advocates, and intercessors towards the saints, and towards God, and therefore bring we them money, from all parts and offer unto them every day gifts and presents, as the clientes do to their counceylers of the law. Phy. Thou mayst see now well, that the covetousness of priests is the mother and nurse Intercession of living. of this Idolatry, and superstition, I deny not but we have commandment to pray the one for the other, while we be in this present life, but we ought not for all that to Timo. two james. i make merchandise of our prayers, nor to think they have any efficatie, but by the intercession of jesus Christ, nor that we must address them unto any other than him only, for to present them unto the father, for we have neither commandment nor example in the scripture, to address our prayers unto the saints departed, for we may pray unto divers the which we know not whether they be saints or no, nor whether they be in heaven or hell, but we be very certain that jesus Christ is in heaven, and if we were assured they were in heaven yet we can not tell whether they know what we do here, nor whether they hear us or not, nor whether they may help us or no, the scriptures witness rather the contrary but of jesus Christ we doubt not. And yet further. Wherefore should we not without fear go unto jesus Christ rather then unto any other? Is there any that hath more power wisdom, and goodness, or that is more merciful? Should our sins withdraw us from going unto him. Natha. That is the cause they do allege? Phy. But that cause is against them Christ calleth the sinners selves, for if I were no sinner, I should have no need of jesus Christ, if I were whole I had no need of the physician, but because I am Math. vi. a sinner & sick, have I need to go unto him, which hath said. Come unto me all ye that labour & are laden, & I shall ease you, & doth testify himself that he is not come for the just but for the sinners, nor for the whole but for the sick. They then which withdraw us Math. v. from him, be like unto the scribes and pharisees, which were offended and did murmur against him because he was conversant with sinners, & publicans, and they which make difficulty, to go to him, have such a foleishe shame, as they which have some secret sickness, and had rather jeopardy life, then open and show their disease unto john. xiii. the physician, or as Saint Petre had, which would not have suffered jesus Christ to have washed his feet, without the which washing, he might not have been any partaker of his kingdom. Or else it is with them Luke. v. as it was with the same Peter, after he had fished all the night & gate nothing till he had cast his nets into the sea by the commandment of jesus Christ, & drew up so much fish that the ship was full and sank, in such sort that they were constrained to call for help of their fellows, and having great marvel, he said unto jesus, go from me, for I a● a sinful man, he would that jesus christ should go from him, because he did know the virtue, & holiness to be his, and did know the sins and imperfections to be his own, and did repute and think himself unworthy to be in his company, where as he ought rather to have sought him to the end that by him he might have been fanctified and made worthy. Nathana. I am much afeard it will be with such men, as it was with saint Petre, which got nothing with all night fishing till he had cast in his net by the commandment fishing by night of jesus Christ, and so I believe that we fish by night in all that we do and go about, in darkness and ignorance without the word of God and his commandment and without directing ourselves unto jesus Christ, and he being out of our company, but I believe also, that when we have him with us and govern ourselves by his commandment that we shall never fail to take plenty and have good fishing. Phy. If we do otherwise it shall come unto Math. vi. Mar. xv. Luke. viii. us as it did unto the woman being sick of the bloody flix, we shall spend all our goods upon such physic, surgery, & medicines, & our sickness shall always appear and be worse unto such time as we come unto jesus Christ, the which may only heap us. nathanael. I now well understand all this, and do know that they which seek any other advocate than jesus Christ, do not perfectly believe that he is dead for them, risen and ascended into heaven, for if they believed it perfectly, they should know the great love he hath borne them, & the good will he hath towards them, and the power that he hath in heaven & in earth, and would stick, clean and content themselves better with him, than they do. But in as much as thou haste expounded unto me the first manner and way, how I ought to have in remembrance, and contemplation the death, resurrection and ascension of jesus Christ, for to know the fruit that cometh unto me, and the efficatie of the same, declare unto me now, the other manner and how it serveth us for an example. Phy. We shall come to it but first I will admonish the of one point, toweching the ascension of jesus Christ that is, that this article Colo. i. two. Ephe. two. doth serve to show us that jesus christ is the only head of his triumphant church and that there is neither Pope nor living man upon the earth, nor any creature what soever he be unto whom that office may appertain, for the head can not be without his membres, & his office is to vinifie, lead, govern, help, & assist unto all the body & all the members. Then in as much as the church is universal, and sparkled thorough all the & world, there is no creature, nor living man, that can be the head, saying there is not that can be in all places where she is, nor that can give her aid and assistance, such as to her is requisite, but the only jesus Christ the which by his divine power, and by his holy spirit, fulfilleth the heaven and the earth and is present unto all his elected, the which he doth lead conduct, govern, and vinifie which non other can or may do, wherefore what so ever he be that will make himself head of this church, whereof he ought to be but a member, he is neither head nor member, but doth make himself a member of Antichrist, and hath chosen Satan for his head in asmuch as he setteth himself in the place of jesus Christ, setting up himself above him not knowledging him for his head unto whom both Angels and men ought to be subjects, for. S. Paul showing the fruits of the resurrection and ascension of jesus Ephe. i. iiii Colo. i two. Christ, writeth how that God hath exalted and set him up above all heavens, and above all the thrones, powers, lordships, and dominions, and hath given him to be head of his church. Natha. I understand well what thou wouldest say, I shall hold me then unto him, and will never acknowledge other head, of that triumphant church but shall hold for his ministers the true ministers and pastors of his church and the other which will attribute unto them selves that dignity, for very Antichristes'. But let us come now unto that thou haste promised me, and declare unto me what example we may take of all the history of our lord jesus Christ. Phy. That were very long to be recounted and told, for there is nothing so little which containeth not great sacraments & mystery, but I will only set forth the thing unto the in two words by the which thou mayst judge of all the rest. The history of our lord jesus Christ serveth us for an example in two manners, and first how we ought to confirm How the history of jesus christ serveth for example. ourselves unto him, as concerning our regeneration and spiritual life, which is hidden in him, the other how we ought to confirm ourselves unto him in our outward living & conversation. Natha. The more thou wouldst make the things short, the more they seem dark unto me, wherefore I pray the think not much nor spare me, neither time nor words, but expound me the things so largely, that I may have clear understanding of them, and tell me the first point, what understandest thou by the spiritual life, of the which the history of jesus Christ serveth us for an example. Phylype. I understand that all the life of jesus Christ ought first to serve us as an allegory, by the which we ought spiritually, to yield ourselves to be conformable unto jesus Christ, in that which verily, & riallye hath been accomplished in his body, the which can not be in ours. Natha. Thou speakest not much clearlier than thou diddest, therefore declare unto me that which thou wouldst say by example. Phy. I am content. jesus Christ hath been conceived by the holy Ghost borne of the virgin mary, he hath been crucified, dead, buried, is risen again, and gone up into heaven all which things can not be accomplished in our bodies as they have been in his. But let us take pain, that our spirit may in the same be conformable unto him, our bodies be conceived and borne in sin, and iniquity, & not of the holy Ghost in the womb of a virgin, but of corruptible seed, and then for to be conformable unto him in this, let us now come unto his church believe in his Gospel, and in the same which is our mother, and a virgin pure and chaste, we shallbe conceived and begotten by the incorruptible seed of the word of God, our father, and by Spiritual conception & birth, Gala. iiii. i Petre. two. john. xxxi. Ephe. iiii. the virtue of his holy spirit, & shallbe borne again children of God, and shall be new creatures, and put of the old man and put on the new, bearing the Image of the new Adam which is jesus Christ, as we have borne that of the old and of the sinful man. Natha. Behold, for this is a holy conception and happy birth. Phy. Then in asmuch as we be all ready so conceived of the holy Ghost, and borne of that pure virgin the church, which is the spouse of jesus, it must follow also that the Eph. v. rest of our life be conformable unto that of jesus Christ according to our spiritual conception, nativity and birth. We be not crucified nor put unto death as he was but learn we of him to bear our cross To be crucified with christ. with him to be crucified unto the world, & the world unto us, as saint Paul doth write of himself. Nathana, And how can we be crucified unto the world and the world unto us? Phylyp. When we die unto the world: likewise dieth the world unto us. Na. These manner of speakings To die to the world. be very dark. Phy. They be dark unto them which be not acquainted, or accustomed with the manner of speaking of the Apostles. But I do use ● willingly both to accustom thee, and because I do take pleasure in the style of the spirit of God, and of his Apostles. To be crucified and dead unto the world, that is to be crucified & dead unto sin, and that is to forsake Rom. vi. sin, & to have no more acquaintance with him, and to do him no more service, than the dead do unto the living, for as the dead have nothing in common with the living but be separated the one from the other, and have no more acquaintance together, even so be they dead unto the world, which have forsaken it to serve God, and will no more be conformable unto it, that is to say unto the flesh, nor unto his concupiscences, & so is it impossible, but they which be thus dead, unto the world live unto God, and the world To live unto the world. likewise dead unto them, & by the contrary they which live unto the world, and unto whom the world liveth, be dead unto God as the Apostle doth write, of the voluptuous widow saying, the widow which i Timo. two. doth live in lusts & pleasures, in so living is dead, and because that she liveth unto the world, she is dead unto God, so then when we die unto the world we rise unto God, and do practise in ourselves the example of the death and passion of jesus Christ spiritually when we mortify our earthly members & offer our bodies as living sacrifices unto god Roma. xii. Colo. iii. and do kill by the sword of the word, and do burn up by the fire of his spirit our concupiscence & carnal affections & lusts which be the bruit beasts, that we sacrifice unto him. We die then with jesus Christ when we mortify and crucify our old Adam, we rise again also, & go up into heaven with him, when we put on jesus Christ, & serve unto righteousness, forsaking this world & all that is Phi. iii. Eph. i two. in it or of it having our hearts and conversation in heaven seeking jesus Christ which is upon the right hand of God his father. Natha. Trueli that is a commodious setting forth of the history of jesus Christ unto us. Phylype. So doth the Apostles teach us and specially saint Paul setteth forth unto us the death and resurrection of jesus Christ as an Image mirror and glass of the christian and spiritual life, and doth expound unto us, how the baptism doth contain the The signification of baptism Rom. vi. Gala. two. Coll. two. john. iii. seven. Sacrament and signification of these things, for the water which is poured upon our head is first unto us an assured and a certain testimony sign & seat of the remission of our sins by the holy Ghost, which is the water of life, that doth wash and make clean our consciences from sin, as the visible water doth wash the filth from the body. And further it is also a Sacrament of penance which doth teach us that as the water is cast upon us, so must we drown our old man with Pharaoh, and the Egyptians in the red sea, and must be buried with jesus Christ, but by that, that this water abideth not always upon our heads, nor doth not drown us, is signified unto us that the penance & mortification which God doth require of us, is not unto death but unto life Exo. xiii. Luke. xxiiii. making us by the death, to enter into life, as the children of Israel passing thorough the midst of the deep of the red Sea, wear brought unto liberty, and as jesus Christ by the death of the cross is entered into the glory of God his father, and so in baptism is not only presented unto us the grace and mercy of God, and be not only by the same received into his alliance, and into his church, but we have also the sacrament of the death, burial, and resurrection of jesus Christ, and of ours with him, and the Sacrament of repentance, and of remission of sins, and the sum of all the evangelical doctrine, and the Image or patron of all the christian life. Nathan. I now understand this part, but there resteth yet to know the other manner to take example of the history of jesus Christ for the ruling of our outward life and conversation. Phyli. I shall declare it the by exemples in somuch as thou desirest to have the things plainly expounded. first in the life of jesus Christ, there be divers works which Example of Christ for the outward life. Math. iiii. Marc. i. be proper to himself, the which noon can do but himself, as his fasting forty days & his miracles works, which he did. Then must not we undertake to do such things, except we will as mockers make a mock of him, and after the manner of apes counterfeit his works as things to laugh at, as many priests, and religious, & hypocrites do in divers things, not regarding those things in the which Christ would us to follow him, for there be other things done and set forth by Christ for us to follow, as his innocenty, righteousness, holiness, zeal Works of Christ for us to follow. and ferventness, which he had for to advance the glory of God his father, and in setting forth his truth and his Gospel. His soberness softness, benignity, patience, constancy, temperance, the pains, travels, and labours which he took as a true pastor for his church, for the salvation, and consolation of men, and for the solace and comfort of their bodies and souls, nor never failed person, when it was expedient, and convenient for his office, or for any other that had need, and had to do with him: all pastors, and ministers of the church, & all true christians have in him a goodly mirror or glass, and a very plain rule for to learn us how to lead conduct, and use ourselves in this human life, and therefore we ought to travail and draw as near unto him as to us shallbe possible by holy life & conversation, to the end that the light of his image may be seen to shine Ephes. v. Colo. three Phil. two. Tessalo. i. two. in us in such sort, that we may be the light of the world, and that we may show light even in the midst of the darkness of the same as goodly lights following, principally his inestimable humility, patience, and charity, to the end that we may say as the Apostle did. Be ye followers of me, as I am of jesus Christ, and in doing after this sort it shall ● Cor. x. well suffice us to have jesus for our patron and leader, and if we will have the Saints for our patrons, we ought not to take them for such otherwise, but as that holy Apostle doth teach us, and not in electing them for our mediators and advocates, for there is no such patron but jesus Christ, but in following their holy life & conversation as they have followed that of jesus Christ whom they have taken for their true patron, for patron is to be understand the thing, upon the which we do take example, and then can we find none more apt, meet or convenient than jesus Christ. Nathana. I do understand well this matter. Phy. I will yet show the how this passion doth serve me for a remedy and a medicine The suffering of Christ a remedy against all evil against all the temptations, cumbrance sickness, adversities, and perils that may come unto me into this world, for if any man have done me a displeasure or injury whether it be with right or wrong, I have in consolation, if I do suffer with good right, and i Petre. three Luke. xxiii. that I have deserved it, I do considre jesus Christ which hath suffered innocently and do think in myself, if jesus Christ which hath suffered innocently, hath borne patiently all the injuries and outrages done unto him, & hath prayed for his enemies, the which had persecuted and pursued him even unto the death of the cross, have I not then a good occasion patiently to suffer the evil, which I do suffer for my sins, & to condemn myself and to pray for them, which persecute me & be sent to me of God for my chastisement, & not to curse and ask vengeance upon them, and if I do suffer wrongfully without having deserved towards men, I do rejoice and take consolation in my tribulations and give thanks unto God the which hath made me not only a fellow partaker of Math. v. i. Petre. iiii. his prophets and Apostles, but also of himself, also in that, that he will as a member of his body, I do follow my head being assured that as I suffer with him, shall I also Rom. viii. be glorified with him, I do give him thanks of the great grace that he hath given me that is to say, by his goodness he hath kept me from falling into any crime for the which men might have any just occasion to hate or persecute me, but hath so led me by his holy spirit, that the evil can find in me neither colour, nor reason to afflict me except only because I desire and offer myself to be an honest man, & to follow truth & righteousness the which thing cometh not of myself, but of God, the which hath so kept me without the aid of whom I should be the most miserable and greatest sinner of the world. Natha. Certainly the consideration of this is no small consolation. Phy. There is yet other things to follow for I con●idre that how innocent or irreprehensible so ever I be, or can be before men, yet nevertheless I can not be before God, but a great offender and culpable of eternal damnation, if he would entre into judgement with Psalm. Cxlii me, and punish me in his rigour, wherefore I do think that though I have not deserved the evil ●hat I do suffer by such occasion for which men do persecute me, I am not yet for all that so innocent before God, but I have deserved that and much more before God, and therefore I do receive that as at the hand of God, as David did suffer the outrages two. Reg. xvi. of Seme●, and have pity and compassion of mine own enemies, considering that they are my brethren, not knowing what they do, and do more annoyance and hurt to themselves then to me, and therefore am I moved to pray unto God for them, that he will pardon them their faults, for they can not hurt me, but in my body, but they hurt and sle● their own souls, and if I see my carnal brother in the hand of the hangman leading him to the gollowes, how evil or untrue ●o ever he were, or what displeasure he might or should have done me, yet shall I have pity and compassion of him, and should buy him from the gallows it I might, and deliver him from the hands of the hangman, have I not then much greater occasion to have pity and compassion of my poor blind and ignorant brethren, the which I do see by their infidelity and sins to be in the hands of the Devil, which is the great hangman of hell, for to lead them unto eternal damnation, ought we not well here to follow the example of jesus Christ which is come to save & not Luke. ix. to lose, and to ask of God pardon for them, and further when I do consider that which I do suffer and do compare it with the afflictions and torments of jesus Christ, & that I do know the difference between my tribulations and his, I shall be ashamed greatly of mine impatience, or to missaye them which do me injury, when I do remember the prayer that jesus Christ made upon the cross for his enemies, but shall rather be moved to pray to Act. seven. God for them as. S. Stephan did. And further when I do considre the innocency of jesus Christ, and the multitude of sins, which be in myself, and in what numbered God doth pardon them every day, I shall have good occasion to pardon my brethren of a small offence or injury done unto me, seeing that my celestial father doth pardon me mine offences being so great and many in numbered and without having deserved any such forgiveness. Natha. We show ourselves very unthankful and ingrate, if that when other have forgiven unto us a million of crowns, we will nor can find in our hearts to forgive our debtors one halfpenye, and surely I do find these considerations, which thou haste recited very fruitful and do perceive and know every day more in hearing of the speak the great consolation, and Godly doctrine and fruit, that we may receive and bear of this creed, if we consider and examine it near lie as thou dost at all times that thou resueste it. Phy. Likewise must I do in all the tribulations and sickness that may come unto Remedies against all 〈◊〉. to me, for if I have pain in my head, I shall call to remembrance the crown of thrones which did pierce the brains of jesus Christ and the tree of the cross which he had for his bolster, where as I have my head wrapped and bound in soft and sweet kerchives, and my head laid upon a suff pillow. Or it I do feel my body weary, and over for traveled, and all mine other membres so weak that with great pain I may turn me from one side to an other: yet shall I perceive mi self much better entreated than jesus Christ my saviour remembering him spread upon the tree, hanging upon the cross, having his hands and feet nailed, and might not stir nor remove any member, yea, and that after that he had been all the night, and almost all the day scrached, beaten, whipped, & his body all to broken and almost shed all his blond where as I am laid in a good soft bed, & tenderly entreated, and have servants and help to take me up, & lay me down and to comfort and to give me all things that I ask, or that can be devised to be good for me. Natha. Alas that we can not think of this, for if we could we should be much more patient in all our sickness & adversities then we be. Phylipe. Yea, and we should not be so much nor so soon moved when we hear any evil or outragragious words spoken against us for that our good saviour hath suffered much greater, yea & even in the same hour that he was most oppressed with torments, for he was left & forsaken of all creatures, without having any manner of aid, comfort or consolation, no not so much as an evil doer that is lead to execution, for he heard none other thing, but injuries, outrages and blasphemies against himself, the which did no less per●e his heart then the thorns & nails did pear●e his head Esai, liii his hades and his feet, & yet for all that came there never out of his mouth one evile word but was always meek as a lamb that is in the hands of the shearer or bocher, wherefore if I do see myself forsaken of all men and of all my special friends, yet shall I recomfort myself in jesus Christ seeing that I am not yet in such extremity as he was, knowing also that I am not forsaken of god, but that he is always with me, as he was with his son jesus Christ, notwithstanding it did seem that he was altogether, & utterly forsaken of him the which he would in deed feel in himself, to the end that we should not feel it in ourselves, but should receive consolation by him. Natha. Certainly the consolation is great principally for the poor people, which sometime be extremely oppressed in all manners, as well with sickness as with extreme poverty without having any aid or help of any person, there is none so sore sick, but it is great pity, how well so ever they be kept and treated. But let us then behold and think what it is or may be in them that have extreme poverty joined with their sickness, and have nothing to help themselves with nor no body for to keep them as it is most often seen principally in the time of the plague, in the which the most richest themselves have many times much ado to find any that will serve & keep them, happy be they then that in such anguishs and distress have remembrance of jesus Christ, and have the consideration that thou speakest of. Phy. Also likewise when I am in any manner of burning and extreme heat, that doth so alter me that it doth seem unto me as fire were in my body, impossible to stack my thirst, and that my mouth is so brought out of taste, that I can away with no manner of meats nor drinks what so ever they be. Then I do think of two things, the first is, I considre the pains of the poor, unhappy and dampened, and perceive in myself, that if a little piece of an humour, and a little excessive, and extra ordinary heat hath engeudred in me such pain and grief that I have almost lost all patience, alas may I then think, how should I endure or suffer that which jesus Christ hath suffered for me, or how should I do if I should be cast into that ardent eternal fire, and bear all the ire, judgement, and malediction of God, which the unfaithful reprobate do bear, as jesus Christ hath borne for me, I find myself then much bound to give him thanks seeing he hath delivered me from such torments and aught to esteem this worldly pains very light, and as things to learn me the fear of God, to flee from sin and to put my whole trust in jesus Christ, for the avoiding of that horrible and fearful judgement of God, of the which the sicknesses and all other adversities be but as small advertisements, the better to learn us to know his grace & the better to withdraw us from this world. And of the other part when I do considre & think upon the thirst & alteration that jesus Christ might have after his great torments which he suffered a●l the night, and all the day after he had almost shed all his blood, and was hangded upon the cross all most three hours and yet could not have so much as one drop of water to quench his thirst with all, but had given him in the stead of good drink bitter gall, vunger and myrrh, I may then think in myself to have great cause of complaint, seeing that I may have the good malvesey & all other things that I can ask, for the comforting of my heart, and my saviour jesus Christ might not have so much as one soap of water to quench his thirst, when I have well considered all this, and have a little mingled, and steeped with my meats, poreges, and suppings of this vinegar gall and myrrh, which jesus Christ did taste & feel, I do find it more sweet than huny. And yet is there one thing that I do learn by the same to keep myself from doing wrong or imurie Ephe. v. to any creature, nor to hate my christian brother, knowing that when I so do, I do give unto jesus Christ to drink vinegar gall and myrrh, & am a branch of that unhappy judicial vine, which in the stead of good grapes, hring forth thorns & sloes, which be so exceeding bitter, for to make drink for his saviour, which hath made planted and dressed it. Natha. This is not evil taken for so far as I cause the death and passion of jesus Christ is a consolation, medicine, & remedy against all sikenesses & diseases both of body & soul. Phy. But yet where it doth most chiefly serve me, is when I do feel the temptation & assaults of death. I do them call unto remembrance Remedy against the assaults of how jesus Christ is dead for me, how that he is risen, & hath triumphed over death. This remembrance & consideration doth mitigate the fear of death which all men have naturally, & doth assure & confirm me against all the assaults of death, of sin, and of Satan and of hell, knowing that he which believeth john. v. vi. in jesus dieth not, nor entereth not into judgement, but is already passed from death unto life, for this same corporal death, is not death but only a passage from misery into pleasure and felicity, and away by the which we enter into eternal glory, wherefore I rejoice in my heart, & do say with the holy Apostle, death Ose. v. i. Cor. xv where is thy sting, hell where is thivictorie? Na. This is a verifearful assault wherefore it is veri necessari & needful a man to show himself at that hour to be a true champion, and a christian knight. Phylype. It is the same hour by the which it shall be plainly known whether we have been hypocrites or true christians & whether we believe with our hearts that which we confesle with our mouths, for there be such which have so great fear of death, & have had so little experience of the death and resurrection of jesus Christ, that when they be sick, if a man advise them to look on their consciences, and dispose their houses, and make their wills they before grieved, & sometime angry with them that move them, and be marvelously grieved, where as they ought to return unto God, with all their hearts & follow the example of the good patriarchs which did not leave their business undone, & their goods undisposed till they felt death Gen. xl. ready to stop their throats, but did it while they had time, and their wits and understanding perfect. Of the which also jesus Christ hath given us an example, and hath showed us in the same what care we ought to have for them the which be given us in charge when that he did recommend his mother, unto. S. john, but they which be so feared of death do she we that the death and resurrection of jesus Christ is not well printed in their hearts, for that is the Soverayngne remedy & the true armour to strengthen us in this battle, & there is no other true consolation, they that be sick or in other adversity have many times comforters, but many be such as came unto Jobe, more like to bring him to desolation and despair then to consolation. Some set before them their good works, or as a man might better say, their supersticitions & hypocrisies, & do learn them to put their trust, & other which shall in the same be done by them after their death, do promiss them heaven. But what manner of proceeding is this for when the conscience doth feel itself laden with the burden of his sins, & the eyes open and seethe himself personally before the judgement of God, which can receive nothing but that which is just & perfect, what consolation may the conscience receive of his works, the which at that time she shall know to be all unperfect and be nothing but sin, and unworthy to be presented before the majesty of God? what terror and fear ought she to have, when she seeth that horrible mouth of hell wide open ready to swallow her, except she have other aid and succours then of her self, yea, and if she have not trust and confidence that she is delivered and saved, not by her own righteousness, but by that of jesus Christ, or if she be so blinded that she have some trust of her works and leave upon the same, and not the promises of God, and the grace in jesus Christ, what may come of her, but fall into the deep pit of hell, seeing the forsaketh jesus Christ and his satisfaction toward god which can not be joined, or have any place with our satisfaction, which of itself is nothing. Natha. There be which do comfort them of a better sort showing them the miseries of this present life and how that death is unto them the end of all evils, and an entry unto rest and the beginning of felicity. Phylype. That same seemeth to have some colour and to be meet to bring consolation, but the philosophers have done s● much & their books do contain no less, but there must be an other consolation for to appease the conscience pressed with the judgement of God, the which is not found, but in the christian doctrine, and in the death and resurrection of jesus christ, for valiantly to enter into the battle of death, & boldly to present himself before the judgement of God, there is no better way or mean then for to despair of his own virtue & power, & to put his only trust & hope in jesus Christ, & to condemn himself and all his works, & to judge them worthy of eternal death, & damnation and to present himself before God in the only confidence that he hath in jesus Christ being assured of his salvation by the only favour, grace, and mercy of the same. Nata. I believe well that this is the best of all other, & that there is none other, for truly thou haste opened unto me a goodly shope full of all manner of medicines against all manner of sikenesses & adversities both of soul and body, in the which I am determined to fetch all the medicines which shallbe necessary for my salvation. Phy. It there came a apothecary or physician which would promise medicines and remedies for to heal all sikenesses, and for to keep a man always in health, there is none but would run to him, yea, and bestow all his goods to buy that health, how poor so ever he were, what desire ought we then to have and to run unto jesus Christ, which is the sovereign & true medicine which healeth not only the bodies, but also the souls from all infirmities & sikenesses, and doth not only keep them in health during this mortal life, but that more is, it doth keep them from ever dying, and maketh men immortal, and to live eternally, which none john. three vi. other medicine can do. And that we might the better love his medicines, and that he might the better insite us the better to come unto him, he doth Esai. i. two. lv. give the unto us freely without demaundinge other gold or silver, and therefore we be very miserable to forsake him for to have recourse unto the pope's priests and monks, which so dearly sell their medicines unto us, the which can in nowise profit us, but rather venom and poison our souls and consciences. Natha. I intend never from hence forth to have recourse to other but to him, and to the end I may the better know him, I pray the let us come unto the article following, the which already hath been expounded, for by that thou haste taught me this day thou haste enough opened the understanding for to learn me to know, how I ought to practise all the christian doctrine, and how to use it to my profit. Phy. I will also do that which thou desirest, but to keep the order we have begun & held hitherto, we may of this matter make here a stop, and so go forward with that that followeth, as we have done before. And we have also commoned long mongh for one. nathanael. I shall always agree to all that thou wilt. ❧ In this dialogue shall be spoken of the second coming of jesus Christ of the nature of his glorious body & of his last judgement? Phylype. We have all ready treated largely of the history and mystery of our redemption, and that which doth concern the first coming of our Lord jesus Christ in the flesh the causes of the same what he hath done for us and the fruits we ought to abide and look for, There resteth now to speak of his secondcomming, in the which he shall appear not in humility, and infirmity, as he did at the first, but in glory and majesty, not for to open and pronounce the grace and mercy of God unto sinners as he hath done before but for to glorify with himself, them which received his grace and mercy in the time that he presented and offered it unto them, and for to condemn & judge them which would not knowledge him for their saviour. And for to re-enter into the matter, recite that which followeth. Natha. There followeth after that which we have said. That he is set upon the right hand of God, and from thence shall come to The second coming of Christ. judge the quick and the dead. I do first demand of the if the body of jesus Christ glorified be in some certrine place, or whether it be in divers places, or in all places? Phy. It ought to suffice us to know & believe that which we have all ready said of his ascension, and of his seat upon the right hand of God, I deny not but jesus Christ is in all places by his divinity, and by his holy How Christ is in all places spirit, in asmuch as he is God, but in asmuch as he is truly man, his body can not be a true and very body without occupying some place. To be in all places as his divinity is, it can not be of his nature, for nothing can be over all but God, wherefore if his body were over all and in all places, it should follow necessarily that it should be God. If it wear God it should then not be a body but a spirit, and jesus Christ should not be very God, and very man, but God only and the body which he did take in the womb of the virgin should be a new God, which had some beginning the which is a thing repugnant unto the nature of God. Natha. But may not God do what so ever he will, & in asmuch as the divinity of jesus Christ can not be separated from his humanity, is not his body in all places where his divinity is? Phy. Nothing is impossible unto God, and albeit he may do all, yet nevertheless his power is aswayes conjoined with his wisdom and useth it not disordinately, but always in such sort that his works be not confused, but that his creature abideth always a creature, giving him such properties as he will and yet followeth it not, that the divinity and humanity of our Lord jesus Christ be so inseparable that his humanity fulfilleth the heaven, and the earth as his divinity doth for my body and my spirit be conjoined together, and yet it followeth not therefore that my body should be in all places where my spirit may be, for my spirit may be ravished even up into heaven, and yet my body nevertheless shall be in the earth, or and if thou lovest better the comparison of Saint Austen God dwelleth in us by his holy spirit, and yet nevertheless we be not in all places, and every where, where God is, albeit he dwelleth in jesus Christ otherwise then in us, but this joining together or comunction of two natures doth not take from the natures their properties. Natha. But is there no difference between the bodies glorified and the mortal and corruptible bodies? Phy. Yes very great, and I deny not but The glorious body of christ that the gloriousse body of jesus Christ is now far other than it was before his death and resurrection, & yet hath he not for all that changed his body, but hath always kept the same he had before, & hath not changed his substance, except that he hath put of the qualities of imperfections & miseres which he took for us, & is immortal & glorious or otherwise he should not be truly risen, nor we should not call the resurrection, resurrection, except that same proper body, and that same proper flesh, which is fallen by death were risen up again, nor should not receive life by the same, & so might it be rather called mutation or changing, than resurrection, & then to dispute subtellye & curiously of the properties of the body glorified, & of the place where the body of jesus Christ is, should be a thing not only unseaming, but also unworthy of the simplicity and of the evangelical doctrive we ought to content ourselves, to know Luke. xxiiii john. xxi. that jesus Christ is in the celestial glory, and that he hath a very true body such as he showed it unto his disciples, having flesh & bones, and that it is not changed into spirit but doth hold always the properties of a very true body, such as appertaineth unto a very and true glorified body, which not withstanding it hath put of all humane infirmities, yet followeth it not for all that, that it is in all places, nor in divers or many places all at one time & instant. We ought to believe that he is in heaven, set upon the right hand of God his father, where as Act. seven. saint Stephan did see him. For to dispute and define what is this heaven, & that right hand of God, is here no need, but is more sure to put it of and leave our disputation unto the time we came there, and may see it by experience, and that we may use such diligence to follow jesus Christ in the time we be in this life, that we may come thither and behold him. Natha. And if it be thus as thou sayest how can we make it agree, with that which the priests make us believe that the body of jesus Christ is in the host, between their hands, The corporal presence. or in the pixkes, even as great and large, as he was upon the cross. Phy. They which believe that, believe not that he is set upon the right hand of God And shall come from thence to judge the quick and the dead. Natha. Wherefore not? May he not as well come down and go up, by the virtue of the sacramental words, as he is gove up. Phy. To what purpose or what need is it that he should come down, descend, or ascend, seeing he fulfilled all by his virtue and power? If it were needful that his body should be presented unto us carnally, wherefore is not he tarried with us, or wherefore is he not returned to be conversant, as he was before with his disciples, wherefore did he say unto his disciples. It is expedient for yo● that I depart, for except I depart, that comforter shall not come? If the corporal presence he jesus christ did with hold the hearts of the Apostles here in this low earth, and did hinder them to know him spiritually, how should he have willed us to set our spirits to seek him in almorsell of bread in the hands of a sinner, or in a pixce or box, hath he not said, he would be prayed unto of them which should honour and seek him in spirit and in truth, and that such be the true honourers, and how shall we honour him in spirit & truth, if we go about to seek and honour him in visible and corruptible things, and Ihon. iiii. in houses made with the hands of men, and to muse upon a morsel of bread, or upon a pyx or box, how may this agree with that which saint Paul commandeth us saying. If ye be risen again with jesus Christ, seek not the things which be Colo. iii. on the earth, but those that be above where jesus Christ is upon the right hand of God the father, or wherefore do the priests sing in their masses, Sursum corda, have your hearts on high, and wherefore do the other answer We have than to God? Why will they rote them here in this low earth, and hold them in the Imagination of corporal and carnal presence, rather than to learn them to know jesus Christ spiritually, making them to feel the fruit of his bitter death & passion? For this cause hath he instituted his holy Institution of the supper supper, not for to make us seek a corporal presence, but for to represent himself unto us by these visible signs, & for to learn us by the same to go up into heaven to him, for he will not that we draw him from heaven by words, as coniurars and enchanters, but will draw us unto himself, by his holy spirit and willeth that our hearts be lifted by unto him, and that we there be translated and traunsported by his virtue, to receive repast & nourishment of his flesh & of his blood wherefore it is no need that he should descend or go up, for if he might not communicate his flesh and his blood unto us other wise then by his corporal and carnal presence, and without descending corporally from heaven, the virtue and power of himself and of his holy spirit, were not great and should not have so much power as the sun, the which without coming down from heaven doth veri well communicate his light and heat to men, wherefore may not then jesus christ communicate himself to our spitites souls & bodies, by the virtue of his spirit, & conjoin & unite us with himself, as the members with their head? We have not then any cause to make a god of the body of jesus, or a monstruousse body which should fulfil all places, or to give him many bodies, as we must needs be constrained to do, if we will follow the doctrine of the priests, saying that they will that all in one hours, one self minute, moment and instant, he should be in so many places all at a time, it is much more sure to hold our selves unto the testimony of the Angels, which have testified unto his disciples the day of his ascension, that as they saw him go up visibly, so should he be seen descend, which Act. i. he himself also before had affirmed. saying that he should come as a light which should be seen from the Oriente unto the occidente, Math. xxiiii wherefore he doth declare that he shall not come invisible, and that there where his body shall be, there shall be his elected. Natha. These words be understand of his The sacramental coming of Christ. corporal coming unto the judgement, but there is an other which is sacramental. Phy. I deny not but jesus Christ cometh every day unto us and is in the midst among us, & with us unto the end of this world, & present unto us, but that is by his divine virtue and by his power and his holy spirit, but of coming and presence corporal and carnal, the scripture promiseth us no other than that: which shall be at the last day, I deny not but he is present unto us by his word & by his sacraments, but that is in the manner that I have already showed. Natha. Thou wilt then say, that he descendeth not corporally unto the last day. Phy, It is the scripture that so sayeth and not I. Nathana. How shall he come then and in what form? Phy. He shall come accompanied with Angels with the clouds in the Math xxv. glory of God his father, in the proper form that he ascended. Natha. Wherefore shall he come then in his proper body, then visibly rather then now? Phy. Because that then shall be the time that he must make account, and make them partakers of his glory and immortality which have suffered with him, and believed in him and shall make them the foot stole of his fe●e which have resisted him, to the end they may feel him their judged and Lord in their great confusion, in the day of the ire of god in asmuch as they would not know him nor receive him for their saviour in the time of grace and mercy. Natha. Wherefore sayest thou the quick and i Cor. xv. i. Tessa. iiii. the dead, shall there be then some living? Phy. According to the saying of saint Paul, it is manifest that there shall be then when he shall come, the which nevertheless shallbe changed and hidden suddenly and shall meet jesus Christ in the air. Natha. And shall they come before them that be dead? Phy. No. For first the trumpet shall blow and the dead shall arise and then all together shallbe found in a moment with the Lord. Natha. And shall not the same die? Phylyp. saint Paul calleth not that change death because it shallbe more short and sudden than the twinkling of an eye, but nevertheless they shall be all together changed, even as they which shall have slept in the powder of the earth, and shall put of mortality, for to put on immortality. Natha. Thou understandest then by the living, & the dead, them which at that time shallbe living, and them which before that time shallbe dead. Phy. I say that the article may very well be so understand, and that the doctrine of. S Paul is conformable unto the same understanding, but we may also well understand it otherwise, without contradiction of the scripture. Natha. Declare it unto me. Phy. We may take this copulation for one universal, signifying as much as though we would say, he shall come to judge the quick and the dead, that is to say, all human creatures for the same two words doth comprehend all sorts of people, or he shall come to judge the quick, which yet at this present time be alive, which shall die nevertheless at their time, and the dead, that is to say, all them which have been, before us, which is as much as though he should say, all them which have been be & shall be, of what estate or condition so ever they be. nathanael. Declare unto me yet in how many manner of ways I may use these things unto my profit. Phylype. In very many, but I shall touch one or two of the principal. This judgement of God ought to learn and admonish us to walk in this same mortal pilgrimage in simplicity of heart and to put a sure bridle upon our carnal concupiscences, and to redress and reform ourselves to the right way of the will of God, being assured that we must make account, & that not unto a mortal man as we be, but unto him that knoweth not only all our works, but also all our words and thoughts knowing that Math. xii. Math. i. there is nothing so secret, but at that time it shall be discovered before God, before his Angels, and before all men that ever shall have been upon the earth. We ought then to be very aware to do any thing in secret, which we would not do openly, but we ought to walk in this life, as though we saw God always before our eyes. And after the abiding and looking for this judgement ought to withdraw our selves from doing any wrong or injury unto any person, and ought well to keep ourselves from going out of the right way of truth other for any praise, or for any dispraises, or for slanders, or for the good or evil will of men, neither yet for any profit or damage that might come unto us, neither for prosperity nor adversity that might come, for we are certain that then shall be holden the great and last appellation, and all causes shall be brought forth and judged, but not according to the judgement of men, but according to the just judgement of God, by the which every one shall receive praise or shame, & vituperie, according as he shall have deserved. Natha. This article as thou expoundest it ought to bring great consolation unto all the true faithful which suffer persecution in this world knowing that, at that time their sorrow shall be turned into joy, and their shame into glory, and of the contrary it ought to give great fear unto the infideles and hypocrites, for they may well hold themselves for assured that their infidelity & hypocrisy shall be destroyed, and their glory shallbe turned into shame and confusion. And in asmuch as we be comen thus far forth, it doth seem unto me that these matters have been sufficiently declared, and all the mystery of our redemption after such sort that I hold myself very well satisfied for my part, and because I fear to make the weary with taking over much of the at once, let us here make a rest, to an other time. Phylyp. Thou canst not make me weary in such matters, yet nevertheless I am content to follow thine advice? Farewell. Natha. To God I commend the unto whom I pray to give us such grace that we may at that great day of judgement be found blameless and irreprehensible by the favour & merits of jesus Christ. Phy. So be it. ❧ In these. two. last diologes is opened the other part of the creed, the which do concern the holy Ghost and the church wherein is declared that which appertaineth to the one and the other and is showed what is the true church of jesus Christ what is her polesie, & ministration, & what goods she received of him. nathanael. IN as much as we have done the greatest part Phylype, I shall desire the to have patience, and to take the pain to expound unto me the rest, that we may see the end of this matter. Phy. It is reason, and I will not devye the my pain, saying it bringeth ●o less consolation unto me then to the. Natha. It seemeth unto me that there be yet two parts to be declared, the one of the holy Ghost and the other of the church. Phyly. It is true, but we may well conjoin that of the holy Ghost with that of the church, go forth as we have begun. Natha. It doth follow. I believe in the holy Believe in the holy ghost Ghost, it is no further need that I should ask how thou understandest this, for by that thou haste already declared unto me the faith thou haste in the father and in the son I understand well thou confessest that thou puttest all thy trust in the holy ghost. And that thou believest, that by the same, the father and the son doth sanctify the as by jesus Christ, thou art justified by the virtue of the same holy spirit. Phylype. It is true. Natha. notwithstanding I understand that, yet would I very gladly thou wouldst expound me more largely, what thou understandest properly by this holy spirit, Phy. The same virtue, power, moving and efficatie of God, by the which the father and The holy ghost the son worketh in us, nourisheth & vivefieth as we have all ready said, in declaring our faith of the father and the son. Natha. In asmuch as thou believest in him thou holdest him for a God, as well as thou dost the father & the son. Phy. Yea without doubt, for I understand not by this any manner of thing, out of god or beside God but in God, & of his proper substance. Na. Wherefore callest thou him spirit, the father & the son be they not also spirit seeing thou confessest they be God, & that jesus Christ doth openly testify that Ihon. iiii. God is a spirit, the which must be honoured in spirit and truth? Phy. I dame not but God is a spirit, and so by consequence, the father, & the son, but we must first consider The signification of the word spirit. what is the signification of this saying spirit, and whether we speak of the essence and unity of God, or of the distinctions which be in the same, which the ancient fathers have called the persons of the trinity. Natha And what is the proper signification of this same vocable spirit? Phy. I have said before that man can not find proper words as to speak of divine things, but must borrow them of human things & by similitude of the same declare the things celestial and spiritual. Natha. I remember it well, but tell me then what is the natural signification of this same word, and how it agreeth with God. Phy. Spirit, signifieth properly inspiration blowing, & wind, & because there is nothing more subject among corporal things, nor that less can be perceived by view or sight them the wind, and the spirit, it is often tasten in the scripture for to signify the things invisible & divine. Na. Therefore I think we call the soul & understanding spirit, not that it should be taken but for a wind, but because it is invisible sodaynd & light as the wind. Phy. Even so likewise God is called a spirit, not that we should think that he were nothing eyes but a wind which passeth, but to make us understand that we ought not to Imagine that he should be any manner of thing visible, material or mortal, but one nature essence, perfect invisible, incorruptible, and immortal which will also be served with the heart, and then soul, of the spirit and understanding which be immortal, & not with ceremonies & corruptible things. Nathana. According to this signification the father, the son, and the holy ghost be then all called spirit, and all for one cause, but expound unto me wherefore thou callest more particularly, the holy ghost spirit than thou dost the father and the son. Phy. When I behold the divine essence & unity of god, I call them all spirits, but when I consider the personal distinction of the which we have spoken here before I do then principally call the third person, spirit, because that word doth better open his property then any other we can find. Thou must also understand that often times in the scripture The holy spirit for his gifts and graces. Esai. xi. i Cor. xii. the holy Ghost is taken not for the essence & substance of himself, but also for his gifts and graces. Nath. Wherefore callest thou him holy? Phy. For to deserve him from creatures, and for to declare that I speak of that virtue power, and moving of God, which is in God by the which the father, by his son jesus doth sanctif●e save and vinifie us. Nathana. What callest thou holy? Phy. A thing pure and farm, separated from all corruption, & pollution, and from all profane & carnal usage, & a thing whole & entire, and inviolate, and all together dedicated unto God, I ●al then the holy ghost, because he is such in deed, and that by him God in jesus Christ sanctifieth ma●ne, that is to say, he purgeth, maketh clean, consecrateth, and dedicateth him wholly to himself, separating him from all vile and profane usages, to serve The christian sayutes. only unto him, Therefore also be the christians called saints, because they be anointed with that ointment, and withdrawn from the servitude of the devil, consecrated by jesus Christ for to serve the only God. Natha. I understand now wherefore jesus Christ did send a great mighty wind when he gave his holy spirit unto his Apostles. Phylyp. There is no doubt, but he did it to The holy spirit shewe● in wind. signify, that as the wind suffereth the Rociers, the little and small trees, and overthroweth by the roots, breaketh down, broseth and maketh ruinous, the great & mighty trees, So the virtue of this holy spirit is to bring consolation to the hearts afflicted to purge the consciences, to judge the evil, to overthrow and set down the proud, and to uphold & bear up the weak and humble. Natha. If we will then have any thing of God, we must obtain it by jesus Christ working in us by his holy spirit. Phylip. It is even so, for by him all the believers, be unite in one self body with their head jesus Christ, and be nourished and vinified in him, as by the soul and spirit all the members which be in one body, be partakers of the goodness which is in the same body. Natha. I believe for that cause we put to, by & by after this article, the which appertaineth nigh unto the church, the which is the body of jesus Christ, of the which thou speakest of vinifying & sanctifiing by the same holy ghost, for we do say, by and by after the catholic church. Phy. There is no doubt. Natha. In as much then as we have treated the other three parts The church of the creed, & that we be come to the fourth, which concerneth the church, daughter of the celestial father, spouse of jesus Christ, tell me first what thou callest the church. Phy. Church signifieth congregation and assemble, Eph. v, but I do take it and understand it here, for the assemble of the true and faithful christians, which be unite & conjoined by one self spirit and one self faith. Natha. Is there any other church than the church of the faithful? Phy. As we do call the body and membres of jesus Christ the church, so hath Antichrist his body and membres, which together make the malignant church, but for asmuch as that toucheth us in nothing, we leave it apart, and speak only here of the true The malignant church church of jesus Christ & therefore do we call it holy. Natha. For what cause? Phy. To put difference between her and the church of Antichrist, and for asmuch as she is sanctified by the holy Ghost, for to be the temple and habitation of God. Natha. wherefore dost thou also call it catholic, what signifieth that word catholic? Catholic Phy. It doth signify universal, and therefore do I say, I believe the universal church, because the church doth signify all assembles, and congregation, where the faithful be assembled, as is the church of Cho●hi of Rome galathians and other like, I will declare that there is one catholic church, that is to say, universal and general, comprehending all the other, the which is generally sown thorough all the world, only known of the only God which knoweth the hearts. Natha. If she be sown thorough all the world how is she a church, seeing that church signifieth congregation & assemble, & so as thou sayest, it should seem rather to desperation, separation, and confution? Phylype. Therefore must we consider this The church invisible. church spiritually, and must not think it to be a visible and local assemble, set and limited in a certain place. Nathana. How understandest thou this, or how can the church be invisible, seeing it is the assemble of the faithful, which be visible men, Phy. I deny not but that the men which be of the church be visible, but this joining together of the church ought not to be considered of the conjunction of the bodies, but of the hearts, spirits, that be invisible which none cause, and therefore notwithstanding I see the men that be of this church when they be present with me, yet nevertheless I The church mingled thorough all the world. can not see them all because they be sparkled abroad thorough all the world, and though they might be assembled all in one place, yet could I not know them perfectly, because that the elected shall never be so well separated in this world, from the infidels and reproved, but there shall be always many hypocrites mingled among them, the which we can not well deserve nor judge, unto such time as jesus Christ shall make separation of the Math. xxv. go●es from the lambs, and of the wheat from the tars, therefore do I say that this church is invisible, because the eye can not see it, nor the human judgement well deserve it, therefore do we say we believe it, for if we did see it at our eye, we believed not, but notwithstanding we can not see it at our eye, yet we believe that the Lord hath his elected, which notwithstanding they be sparkled about thorough all the world as touching their bodies, be yet nevertheless so joined together by the spirit of God, that they be but one self body one self heart, and one self soul. Act. two. iiii. Natha. Thou wilt then say that the universal church is a spiritual and invisible assemble of all the elected and children of God, which be upon the earth, in what place so ever they be, which notwithstanding they be separated and far distant one from another, as concerning their bodies, yet they be all unite by one self spirit into one body mystical, of the which Christ is the head, Col. i. two. which died for to assemble the children of God, that were sparkled, but if this church be invisible how canst thou say, thou believest in her and that thou holdest her faith, how canst thou know what she is, & what she believeth if thou know her not? Phylype. I say not that I believe in her. Natha. dost not thou confess, I believe in the holy Ghost, the holy universal church? Phy. I do say and confess openly. I believe in God the father, and in jesus Christ, and in the holy ghost, but of the church I do not say, I believe in the holy church, but I believe the holy church. Nathana. Is it not all one, what difference is there? Phy. Very great. For if I said I believe in the holy church, I should confess that I put my trust in her, as I have said before to believe in God, and the church is not god but is an assemble of men, & cursed is man that trusteth in man, wherefore if I said, I believe jere. xvii in her, I should speak against myself, and should reverse the faith, which I have confessed hitherto Nathana. Declare unto me the difference. Phi. By expositions going before it is open enough, what sense mi words should have, if I said, I believe in the church. But when I do say, I believe the holy church, that is to say, I believe and confess that there is an assemble by the which I have defined the church, and that in the same I will live and die. Natha. How wilt thou live and die in her when thou knowest not where she is. Phy. Although I can not perceive, nor know all that be comprised in it, yet nevertheless I have certain signs by the which I know & am assured what she is. nathanael. What be those signs?. Phy. In all places & companies Syngnes to know the church by ● where as the word of God is purely opened & received the sacraments of jesus Christ observed and kept, I am certain that there is of the sheep of jesus Christ, & of the elected, or otherwise his voice should not be opened nor yet received. Natha. Thou wilt then say, that the word of god, & the sacraments of jesus Christ be indubitable signs of the same, but many speak of jesus Christ, and make semblant to hear his word which be hypocrites, & believe not in him as judas was and such ●yke. And contrariewyse there be many unknown which be esteemed unhappy & damned & yet have faith & shall attain to the kingdom of heaven, be fore them that show great apparent, as jesus Christ did say, the harlots & publicans Math. xxii. should obtain it before the scribes & pharisees. Phy. Therefore have I said, that this church is invisible, & unknown unto me not because we see not with the bodily eyes, the men which be of it, but because that man can not see the hearts nor can not deserve nor know whether the man that he seeth believeth or no Ephe. two. how holy soever he seem, nor none can know it but the only God, which giveth the faith, & knoweth the heart that receiveth it. Nathan. Thou art then often beguiled thinking that the church is where the gospel is preached & the in stitution of jesus observed, seeing that they that be there & do such things may be such as judas, Act. i v. viii. Simon magus, Ananias, & Saphira we●. Phylip. Albeit that such hypocrites may be mingled in great numbered among the faithful, which be always the little flock, yet nevertheless it is certain that among them be some of Christ's sheep, for else God would not permit nor suffer, that the precious pearls, and margarites of his holy Gospel should be cast before dogs & swine only. Natha. What if the wolves swine and dogs call themselves sheep, and in stead of the gospel set forth their own dreams and human traditious, how causte thou know & deserve the church. ●. Cor. xii. Phy. The Lord hath left us his holy scriptures, for to judge and deserve by the analogy of the faith, and the rule of charity, whether the spirits be of God or not, & whether the spirit in the which I believe do reign the which is given unto the elected, for to judge all things, for the spiritual man judgeth all things, and is judged of no man. Th● roman church. Natha. And is not the roman church that holy catholic church, which thou believest and must be followed? Phy. If the roman church do abide and persever in the apostolic doctrine, I will reknowledge her a church of jesus Christ inasmuch as she declareth herself to be the spouse of jesus Christ, in obeying unto him as unto her head, and for to live under his laws and ordinances, but yet may I not take it for this universal church, of the which we have spoken, for she can be but a member of that church, no more than other congregations, and other christian churches that be abroad in the universal world separated both in places and bodies, and yet joined in spirit and soul, making all together one universal church. Nathan. But is not the Roman church the head of all the other, unto the which all the other ought to obey as subjects? Phy. If she be head, she is no more them, neither spouse nor member of his body, such as the faithful aught to be, if she will have dominion & give laws unto other, she is no more a church of jesus, but is the church of Antechriste, which attributeth unto her self the office appertaining unto Christ, for the office of the church is not to give laws unto her but receive them of him, and to make her self subject under the same. Natha. The church then which will exarcise power over the other, & give them other laws than the Gospel of jesus, is no church of Christ, because his spirit reigneth not there, but to what purpose serveth it to believe the universal church? Phy. Without that article, all the rest going before should serve me for nothing. For all that we have said of God, & that we believe of the father, & of the son, and of the holy Ghost, hath regard unto this church without the which all our faith should be vain for in this crede we do not consider what god is in himself, but what he is towards us, which be his church, and by what means he hath willed her to be delivered, conserved ruled & governed, wherefore all that we have treated here before pretendeth to this end, for we must needs have laid this foundation to build after thereupon this edifice, without the which the foundation should profit us in nothing if we were not surely builded there upon. Nathana. I understand well that thou haste said of the universal church, but I desire yet much to know what thou understandest by the communion of saints. Phy. I understand here no other thing but that which I have already said, that is to say, the holy universal church, but this we put to, the better to declare the unite that is among the faithful, for as in one town, in one common wealth, & in one commonalty & communion among the inhabitaunces citizens, & membres that be within it, so likewise in the church of jesus christ there is one unite, alliance, burgelie & brotherhood, which after such sort conjoineth the body with his head jesus Christ, & all the membres the one with the other, that they have no goods that is not common among them, nor that the one doth not communicate unto the other, for jesus Christ communicateth all his goods to his membres, & all the goods that he doth communicate to his church, returneth or cometh to every one of his members in particular, & every one receiveth his part as the members, the which the head doth communicate unto them, & as the soul which is shed thorough all the body, & giveth life unto all the members of the same. Nath. It is then no small benefit to be in the church of jesus Christe-nor no small evil to be out of that church. Phy. It is with them that be without, as with the branch that is cut of the vine, or as the bough or twig cut of the tree, the which from thence forth can have neither nourishment nor life but must needs dry away, & is good for nothing but to be cast in the fire. Na. They which be excommunicate be they out of this communion? Phylip. The word of excommunication should give the understanding enough for excommunication signifieth none other thing, but to be cast out of a commonalty. nathanael. It is then as much to be excommmnicate out of the church as to be banished from some certain places Phylype. It is almost like, for as a town Comparison of the church hath his civil policy, and his magistrates the which do conduce and govern it according to the laws and ordinances convenient with the common wealth. for it, even so hath the church his spiritual policy and ecclesiastical discipline and his pastures, ministers, and senators to entertain and govern her according to the laws and ordinances that she hath received of jesus christ. Even so then, as in the civil common wealth that which is done by them which have the charge, being lawfully thereunto elected, and go not out of the limits of their offices, and of the laws and ordinances, by the which the town ought to be ruled and governed, is approved & confirmed of all men. Even so in the church of jesus Christ, all that is done according to his word by them unto whom she is committed: is ratified, not Math. xvi. john. xx. only by all the church, but also by jesus Christ, in the name and virtue of whom the thing is done. And if a man for his evil behaviour or demeanour, be lawfully banished from a town he is deprived of the commonalty of the same & is no longer partaker of the liberties franchises, and privileges, nor of the common goods no more than a stranger, which hath there nothing to do. Even so is it of him that is excommunicate by the church. nathanael. And who hath the power to excommunicate? Phy. jesus Christ hath given that power to all his church unto the which he hath committed The ecclesiastical power the keys of his kingdom, by the which this excommunication is exercised. Natha. Is it then required that when a man shallbe excommunicate, to assemble the whole church, and that every one should say his opinion, & give his sentence? M● seemeth that were very hard & should engender a great confusion. Phy. Our Lord jesus Christ hath well provided, for he teacheth us the mean & way Math. xviii. that we ought to hold, and by what degrees we must proceed, he teacheth us first, how we ought to admonish the offendre apart, & how we should call him before witnesses, & if he will not hear those and receive their brotherly admonission and correction, and be converted and chastise himself, and if his offence do so deserve, them to report it unto the church and congregation, which is the last remedy we must come unto, & yet it is not necessary to assemble all the church for this, but sufficeth to have the ecclesiastical council, which have the charge of the ecclesiastical discipline. Natha. What understandest thou by this ecclesiastical council? Phy. I understand the priests and ministers of the church with other good & honest persons of the people which be lawfully elected & choose for to watch over the manners and slanders of the church, and for the upholding of discipline in the same even as the councelers and magistrates be elected and choose for the conservation & maintenance of justice in the common wealth, and for the entertaining of peace and unite among the citizens, and these be they which the scripture calleth priests, which signifieth as much priests as elders and senators, because they have like office in the church as the senators have in the commone wealth saying there is a great difference in the administration, for the one is civil & temporal & hath the material sword, for to uphold maintain & defend her the other is Difference of the civil & ecclesiastical Rule Rom. xiii. Ephe. vi. ecclesiastical & spiritual, and hath the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God to conserve her. Natha. By all that I can comprehend by thy words, thou wilt say that as in a town, we do say, that the town hath done that which hath be done by the council & magistrate of the same. Even so in the church we ought to understand that, that which is done by them that have charge of the same, and unto the which jesus Christ and she also have given the power and the administration of the keys is done by the church, Phy. So understand I it. For those be but servants & ministers of the church by whom she doth exercise the power that jesus Christ hath given her and doth declare the authority of the key●, which she hath received of him. Natha. What need is there of excommunication saying there is a magistrate in the church for the punishment of the offenders. Phy. What need is there of any evangelical pastor, when there is a magistrate, or of preaching when there is civil justice, wherefore doth not the magistrate both the one & the other? Natha. Because the matters be divers and is necessary that the offices should be distinct & separated in the common wealth or otherwise there should be confusion to mingle the temporal things & spiritual together, and is not possible that those self people might well exercises both to acquit themselves well but in taking upon them to do both should do neither but mar al. Phi. Thou sayest well. And therefore as it is requisite that the civil & temporal administration should be separated from the ecclesiastical, and the temporal from the spiritual. Even so likewise must the corrections of the one & the other after a sort be separated, for otherwise the church should not have her whole right, nor spiritual jurisdiction the which is given unto her of our Lord jesus Christ, the which the cyvylle magistrate cannot take from her, without doing her great wrong and Injury, nor without doing great dishonour unto jesus Christ her head, which hath given her that authority, for the magistrate is not ordained of god for to usurp by power or tyranny over the church of our Lord jesus Christ, as the papistical church, and the Antichrist her head hath usurped over the magistrate, and over the temporal sword, but it is ordained of God for to uphold the church, & to help to conserve her, and to mayntaygne her rights. Therefore sayeth the prophet, that the kings and queens shallbe her nourishers. Esai. xxvi. Natha. But when the magistrate hath chastised & punished the traunsgressours ought it not to suffice the church. Phylip. Thou oughtest to understand that there be divers faults, which be slanders unto the church, of which the civil laws do not greatly force, for they have not so much respect unto conscience, as to the outward Correction by the church. peace and tranquillity, but the church hath her respect to edify the conscience, and to reconcile the man unto God, and further, albeit that a man have been punished corporally, and hath made satisfaction unto the law, yet hath he not for all that satisfied the church, which was offended by him, for notwithstanding he hath been punished in his body or by his purse, or by both, yet doth it not for all that follow that he is an honest man, for in that he hath been punished, hath been against his will, and the pain that he hath suffered hath not for all that changed his heart, except the Lord with his holy spirit have touched him, & therefore as the church leaveth unto the punishment of the magistrate, such as by him be punishable to be punished with such punishment as they have deserved, without meddling her self with the temporal sword: even so ought the temporal magistrate not only to suffer the church to proceed in her office after he hath done his, but also to help her in the execution of her office if nead require, as and if there be any rebellion against the same, which requireth more grievous punishment than she may give or put in execution, for what other thing is the ecclesiastical council or senate but a member or part of the magistrate, and of them which partly be ordained by him saving there is an other manner of proceeding for such as have been moved to repentance but rather hardened by the punishment of the temporal sword, which shallbe converted by that which shall be opened unto them, of the word of God, for God hath not constituted the ministration of his Gospel in his church without giving her virtue and efficatie by his holy spirit, by the which he doth strike the souls more lively than the material sword striketh the body, and further when a man hath made such amends as he hath been joined unto by the law, them is the civility of the law satisfied, which forceth not much with what heart it be done, but the church requireth the testimony of the heart, and cannot admit them into her communion, which be slanderous unto her, and which have by the works declared that they be no membres of her body, except that first she shall have seen their repentance, & that they shall have given certain signs and testimonies of the same, for it is defended her to give that Math. seven. which is holy unto Dogs, and to cast her margarittes & precious stones before swine. Natha. But in as much as the church is constitute of men, how can she better judge of the heart then the civil magistrate, and further what satisfaction wilt thou have other than that of jesus Christ, for thyself hath said that none other can satisfy unto the justice of God. Phyly. As touching the heart, the church leaveth it unto the judgement of God, which only knoweth it, but yet nevertheless she hath more care than the civil magistrate, & can not admit, nor receive a man into her company which at the least will not confess with his mouth by the which he doth testify the christian heart that he hath, it may well be that often times the heart doth not agree with the confession of the mouth, and that the confession be feigned as it was in Simon Magus Ananias, & Saphyra, but it sufficeth unto the church that a man show her outward testimony of the heart, for she can not judge whether it be feigned & hypocriteth or faithful wherefore she can not cast out him which cometh unto her with any testimony of faith, for if his testimony be feigned she leaveth the judgement unto God which shall discover it in his time, but to receive any person without open testimony of repentance & faith, she can not without doing against the word of god, for when the dogs & swine do openly show themself, such by their works, and be not covered with sheep skines, why should she not judge them? She hath none excuse nor reasonable cause for to receive them seeing that god hath given her the judgements of such things, & that she hath the mean so to do, & therefore when a man declareth himself manifestly slanderous, & a rebel unto the ecclesiastical correction & discipline, the last remedi that the church hath is to excommunicate, that is to say to open unto him that she taketh him not for any member of Christ, nor worthy to be in the company of the faithful, nor to communicate the Sacraments, which jesus Christ hath given her unto the which ought none to be admitted but her Math. xviii. disciples but ought to be rejected, and deprived of them as a publican, and a panim, or as a jew or turk, which the faithful will nor receive, into their communion, but doth hold him as an Apostata, & enemy of christian religion, & when he is so rejected from the church, i Corin. v. two. Corin. two. i. Timot. i. he is in the hands of Satan for to afflict him, & is separated from jesus Christ after such sort that if he do not reknowledge his faults, amend himself, and labour to reconcile himself, unto the church, he is utterly lost and dampened, for in as much as the church hath bound him he is bound, saying that jesus Christ hath given it that power, by the ministration of his word, by the which also he is unbound, if he reknoweledge his Math xvi. & xviii. faults, & be received again into the church by penance. Natha. The church is then very rigorous and hath a power much more to be feared then the sword, of the magistrate for it can punish but the body, but that of the church slayeth the souls, how doth this then agree with that which jesus Christ hath said, that he was not come for to destroy or lose, but to save, is the church of any other nature than Luke, ix. jesus Christ her head? Phyly. No. But the evil do kill and da●ne themselves in rejecting the blissing of jesus Christ, which is presented and offered unto him by his church, & therefore the church doth not damn him, but only declareth unto him his damnation & rejecteth him as damned, not to the intent that he should so be, but to the intent he should not be, but he knowing his damnation, and saying himself deprived and shit out of the company of jesus Christ of the Angels and of all saints, and forsaken of all the faithful, might be the more ashamed and confounded, and the better feel the judgement of God upon him, to the end that by this mean he might he moved to repentance that he should not perish eternally, for this same ought well to astony him, seeing himself bound by the church which hath such power by the keys which jesus Christ hath given her, that whatsoever Math. xvi. xviii. is bound or unbound in the earth by her, is bound or unbound in heaven. Natha. Then is the excommunication rather a medicine and a remedy, than a death & damnation. Phylip. According as every man doth use it to his profit, for it is the last remedy of the church the which she doth use as a corsie towards sinners, that can not be helped by other remedies, if the sinner perceive the virtue of this excommunication, and amend him two. Corin. i. self as the poor Corynthien did, it shall then serve him for a medicine of health, but if he perseyver obstinate in his malice, without reconciling himself, unto the church, he abideth bound and dead in his sins, and not wy●hstandynge that if he would reconcile himself unto the church, yet she will not receive him by & by before that he shall have Ecclesiastical satisfaction showed open testimony of his repentance forto take away the slander he hath made, and for to give example unto other, & therefore according to the deserving of the offender, the church doth enjoin them some manner of penance for to testify their repentance & for to prove whether it be feigned or true, & also to give terror unto the sinners that the ecclesiastical discipline come not into slander if she should over lightly receive the sclaunderours, and so this pain is not like unto that which is imposed by the civil magistrate but is rather an open testimony of repentance for to satisfy unto the church and not unto God, for toward God there is no other satisfaction sufficient but that of jesus as it hath been said many times already but as I am bound to satisfy unto my neighbour that which I own him: even so am I to the church, if I have made offence, & as the satisfaction that I make unto my neighbour is not sufficient to take away my sins towards God, if God by his mercy do not pardon me: even so of the satisfaction that I make unto the church which serveth not but to entertain her discipline, and to avoid slanders, and yet nevertheless he that would refuse to make such satisfaction for the edifying of his neighbour whom he hath slandered or offended, when he hath the mean and occasion so to do: doth declare himself unworthy to obtain pardon of God for so doing is a certain testimony of the infidelity and the rebellion of the heart. Natha. I understand now this matter and do not doubt but if this excommunication were practised in the church as it was in the primative church, there should be fewer and less slanders, & the word of God in much greater reverence than it is, Phy. Think not that jesus Christ hath instituted it without cause, as for mine own part I do not doubt but if it were practised in the virtue of God, as it was in the apostolic church, but it should have much more efficatie to refrain such sinners as were not all togythere reproved of God, than the punishments of the cyvylle magistrates the which nevertheless she taketh not away but leaveth it always whole in itself. nathanael. I have an other scrupulosity touching this excommunication, for as much as he that is excommunicate is separated from the church of jesus Christ, and deprived of his sacraments which is no small thing it doth therefore seem unto me that we ought not temerariously and lightly to excommunicate a man without good and just, cause & some great crime and fault that should constrain us so to do, wherefore I have marvel of the priests which do excommunicate the power people for small things, sometime for debts, yea sometime for three halpenies & that such as have not where with to buy their children bread. Excommunication for debts Phyly. In that have they well showed, how they esteem but little the communion of jesus Christ, and of all his Saints, and the salvation of the poor people which they did show to esteem less than three halpens, but in asmuch as they have not the true church of jesus Christ I do esteem them as happy that be excommunicate by them, and specially for the Gospels sake, as the poor blind man that was excommunicate by the scribes and pharisees, and as they which were excommunicate Pharisaical excommunication. john. vi. by the synagogue of the I●es, because they had confessed jesus Christ, for the excommunication is but a very tyranny, & their church is the church of Antichrist, out of the which we must be excommunicate, if we will be received into that of jesus Christ in the which the true pastors, and ministers do not usurp tyranny over the people, nor do not attribute unto themselves only the authority of excommunication which is given unto all the church, but doth exercise it with them, the which the church hath chosen & i Corin. v. two. Cori. two. elected unto such offices as the Apostle hath practised among the Corinthians. Na. There resteth yet in me an other scrupul in as much as excommunicate doth signify to be banished and cast out of the communion Excommunication against beasts. of the christians, how may the bishops & priests excommunicate the snails, mile, newtes, snakes and such other like beasts, for they be not of the communality of the christians nor be not accustomed to come unto the ceane how can we then deprive, and cast them out yet nevertheless it is said of certainty, and I have also seen it in writing, that the bishop of Lusane did once excommunicate the news and snacks out of the lake or stagne of Lusane and that never after there was found nor seen none ther. And as I have been informed the priests in some place do excommunicate for all intents, the beasts that hurt the fruits, & goods of the earth. Phylyp. They could not better show their assyshnes, nor better declare that they be sorcerers and enchanters, nor that they never understood the institution, of excommunication nor the cause of the same. Be they afeard that the beasts should go into heaven saying they chasse and cast them out of the communion of Saints, of the which they were never nor can not be? But what other thing is this but plain sorceries, charms and enchantments unto which they have their recours as magiciens, where as they ought to have their recourse unto prayer and orisons, unto the which they ought also to move and insite the people and unto true repentance for to appeise the ire▪ & God, and so take away those wounds that God hath sent unto men for their sins Behold, these be the excommunications the which the Prophets and the true servants of God have used against such beasts, and not to use charms as the magiciens of Pharaoh did. Natha. Thou haste contented me, & I think these beasts do more obey unto their excommunications, then unto the charms and sorseries of the enchauntors. But we have tarried long enough upon this point, and have yet three other upon this article which I will ask of the one after an other? Thou haste said unto me that in this communion of Saints all was commune, is it then necessary that all the christians have their goods in common one with an other. Phy. This commonalty of goods have two considerations if thou understandest spiritually: there is no doubt as all the spiritual goods, which be in jesus Christ the husband, be common unto the church his spouse, and also unto all the membres of the same, which is his mystical body, and have all his gifts and graces in common one with an other. But if thou mean of the earthly goods that is an other matter, for seeing that the church is the kingdom of jesus Christ and his kingdom is not of this world, we must not therefore seek in his church a carnal communion, but a spiritual, for as the spiritual kingdom of jesus Christ doth not abolish nor take away the civil pollytie but doth approve & confirm it: even so the spiritual communion of saints doth not abolish the division of the earthly goods that is among men, but that it is lawful for every one to possess that which is assigned him according to the humane laws. Natha. Thou wilt then say, that this communion ought not to be understand but of the spiritual goods. Phylyp. I deny not but there is also a communion of the corporal and earthly goods among the faithful, not that it is lawful for every man to lay his hands upon the goods of his neighbour as it were his own & so to make it his, of his own authority, for if it were so it should not be a communion of saints, but of robbery, and a commonalty of beasts and Dogs, and not of christians for so all rights both divine and human should be violated, and the commandments Communion of beasts. of God should have no place among men, for then theft should be no more theft if it were lawful for every man to lay his hands and take where soever he might find, and adultery should be no more adultery, if it were admitted that every one might abuse the daughter and wife of his neighbour after the manner of the bruit beasts, which have no manner of reverence neither unto consanguinity nor matrimony. Natha. I am of thine opinion, for jesus Christ is not come to make of men beasts, but to make of beasts men, and of men Gods for the man that knoweth not jesus Christ is worse than a beast, but how understandest thou this communion of the earthly goods. Phyl. The practice of the primative church declareth enough unto us, for that same charity did make their gods all common among Act. two. iiii. v. the faithful, and yet for all that did every man possess his own goods, and inheritance, the which with out constraint of their own liberality they themselves did bring unto the Apostles to be distributed unto the power needy brethren, but it was not lawful for other to take it at their pleasure, but as it was distributed unto them by them, unto whom it did appertaygne as it doth well appear by the words which saint Petre had unto Ananias, & Saphira. Act●, v. Natha. I understand well now what communion this aught to be, for the gospel doth leave unto every one that which appertaineth unto him, but the charity which the Gospel above all things doth set forth unto us, doth teach us how we ought to use, and how we ought to communicate the goods that we have received of God unto the poor membres of jesus Christ, but tell me now which be the saints among the which this communion is. Phi. Vnderstandeste thou not by that I have answered to the before, that they be the faithful Christians? Natha. I understand that well, but because we do commonly call them Saints which be in heaven, and that they which be in this world be all poor sinners: I have here a little Who be saints. doubt, for I understand not well how we may call sinful men Saints, which be yet environed with this flesh of sin, nor knoweth not whether we ought to understand this communion of Saints, of them only which be already in heaven, or only of them which be yet in this world, or of both together. Phy. As to the first I know well when we speak commonly of saints, the poor simple people understand no other thing but of them that be departed, and that they hold for saved, but that cometh of ignorance and for lack of understanding of the Apostolic doctrine, which doth customably call the faith full christian saints, & there is no inconvenience to call them saints, notwithstanding they be sinners, for as the church is called holy, even so be the faithful called Saints, of the which she is composed because that God hath justified, purged made clean, and sanctified them which he hath elected for to serve unto all holiness, and innocency, and for to make shine in us the Image of his glory, & therefore the church is called the spouse of jesus Christ gloryousse without spot or wrinkle notwithstanding that all we the membres of the same pray every day unto God and he pardoneth our sins. Natha. It followeth then that all the true christians be saints & sinners all together, but Math. vi. Luc. two. how may these things agree, being so repugnant? Phy. They be not repugnant if they be well understand: for each man if we Eph. two. Rom. iii. Gal. two. i Co. i. considre him in himself, and in his nature: is the child of ire naturally a sinner execrable worthy of death & eternal damnation, but if we consider him in jesus Christ he is holy, for by the faith which he hath in him, he is justified and sanctified, not that he is altogether without sin, but because that jesus Christ doth make him partaker of his righteousness & satisfaction after such sort that notwithstanding he be a poor sinner yet is it not imputed Psal. v. Rom. iiii. unto him, but is covered and defaced, and he reputed just before God, by the mean of jesus Christ neither more nor less, then if he had not sinned at all? nathanael. This holiness of the church is not yet then perfect? Phi. No not till it be altogether delivered from this world, and perfectly conjoined & unite with her head jesus Christ, for during the time she shall be in this world, she shall have always battle against the flesh and sin, and shall never be fully and delivered from the spots and imperfections of the same unto the day of her redemption, when jesus Christ shall appear in glory, & therefore said jesus Christ that he that is clean and washed, hath yet need to wash his feet, and therefore say we after this article, that we believe the remission of sins. Nathanael. Before we come unto that article thou must first declare unto me the points I have demanded of the upon this, the which we have already treated on. Phy. touching that thou haste demanded me of the Saints, we may understand this communion generally of all the elected that ever hath been, be, or shallbe, but there is some difference, as touching the practice. true it is that all the goods of jesus Christ, because they be spiritual, be common untwirl, but there is an other communion between 〈◊〉 Saints that yet be living, & them which be departed for either of them have their estates apart. And therefore is there no such Communion between saints living and them that be dead. communion between the Saints that be departed and us as there hath been between them, in the time that they lived, and then that lived with them, & at the least we have no testimony of the holy scriptures for they serve not now unto the church with the gifts and graces which they in their time received of God for the edification of the same for they have fulfilled and ended their course and their ministration which now is committed unto others, and of the other part they have no more nead of us nor of our goods for they be out of all necessity. Nath. Ought we not then to honour them? Phy. We may not honour them, as though they were present with us, nor do unto them reverence nor salute them, nor speak to them nor present unto them of our goods nor any manner of service for other honour nor service can we not do unto them but in following their holy doctrine and holy life, and conversation as they have followed jesus Christ, for those be the reliquys that they have left us, in the which they would be honoured by us and so then when we have the ●●lye scriptures in reverence the which god hath given unto us by them, then do we honour their reliquys. Nathana. It is then great folly to offer unto Offering to saints them bread, wine, candles, gold and silver and other things like, saying they have no manner of need. Phylyp That is a fury or folly more than pa●●imrie, it wear much better for to offer unto the living Images and Saints, for to accomplish that which the Apostle exhorteth us to admonishing us to communicate unto the necessity of the saints, it is very clear that he speaketh not there of the Saints departed, but of the living and of the poor membres of jesus Christ being among us languishing and over pressed, with poverty and necessity. Nathana. I doubt not but those offerings were more pleasing unto God. Phi. Such were they of the primative church for the gathering spending and distributing of the which, the church at that time hadd● her deacons to serve at the tables, and At. vi. Rom. xvi. unto the necessity of the poor, we can no here find chapel church or Image more meet for the practising of this excommunication and to offer unto the Saints, then in visiting the hospitales, poor widows, orphan's fatherless, sick, lame, needy, and indigent. Upon such Saints ought the goods of the church to be employed and spent, and upon them that serveth her and have need. Nathan. That same were a goodly thing, but tell me yet what seemeth it thee, of brotherheades and monkery, for saying there is but Deut. vi. i Timo. two. Ephe. iiii. one christian church, one communion of laintes, one God, one mediator of God & man, one spirit as we have confessed hitherto, and that all is but one gospel, one Baptism, one Ceane one faith, and that all the christians ought to be in one self body one self heart, and one self soul, it seemeth to me, that there ought to be but one religion, and one brotherhood, seeing that all the christians be brothers & have all received one self spirit of faith and christian religion. Phy. There is no doubt but they which have been the authors of the monastical lectes, and that followeth them, such as they be at this present time, and those brotherheades likewise taken of the following of the paynims, be Apostatase from the true church of jesus Christ, for as Sismatykes they do divide, break and tear the communion of saints, for as there is but one God, so can there be but one religion, The which. S. james doth define in this manner, the religion that is pure and without spot towards God the father is this. Viset the fatherless, & widows in their needs and tribulations and be not spotted & defiled with this world, he doth not say that the true religion is to shoot thyself in a cloister, or to dwell in the desert to be disguised in divers habits, to eat, and devour the poor widows & fatherless under the colour of long praying, for such religion is to much pharisaical, but the christian religion doth lie in faith, which maketh us study unto all purity and innocenty, & to exercise our charity toward our neighbour which is the true mark of the true christians & disciples of jesus Christ, & the Abbot of that religion is God the father, and the guardian is jesus Christ, and the religious brothers be all true christians and faithful, for as the Apostle testifieth the spirit of God witnesseth unto our spirit, that we be the children of God, by the which we cry Abba, that is to say father, then in as much as Abba, doth signify father, and that we take God so to be, and call him father, there is then no doubt but he is the Abbot and founder of our religion, Act. two. Ephe. two. the which he doth conserve, maintain, and govern, by jesus Christ his son whom he hath given to be head of the church Ihon. vi. x. and into whose hands he hath put us all to be vinified, sanctified, unite and conjoined with him by his holy spirit, and the habit that we must put on, in this religion is our Lord jesus Christ the new man, which we must put on, and of the old Adam for Ephe. iiii. we must change the skin, and the heart and not the air, and the coote or clothes. Nathana. In asmuch then as God is the father of us all and that we make invocation unto him by that name, it doth follow also that we be all brethren, and so will jesus Christ that we call ourselves, and then if we be all brothers, we be then one brotherhood. I can not then understand that here is any other brotherhood but that of the holy ghost, by the which the church is assembled and all the saints unite and conjoined in one communion. Phy. Thou concludest very well, therefore brotherhood Math. xiii confess we first in this crede the faith which we have in the father, which saveth us by jesus Christ his son, and doth sanctify us by his holy spirit, which be of one self essence and divinity with the father, in the which we believe and put all our trust, we lay first the foundation and the cause, and after we come unto the church which upon the l●me is founded & builded. How can we then say, that we be of the brotherhood of Saint bernard, and of saint Sebastian and of The brotherhood of saints such other like, or of saint Barbara or saint Katheryn, or of our Lady, or of any other of the holy Saints what soever they be for we can nother call than fathers nor monor we be not brothers, by the reason of them nor unite and conjoined by their spirits, but if they have been true and faithful, they be our brethren, and have been lead with oneselfe spirit. And likewise may we also say of all the monastical sects and diversity of religions. For if Saint Paul have called the Corinthyans' S●smatikes which said I am of Paul, and I of Cephas, and I of Apollo what title or name shall I give them which say, I am of the religion of saint Frances, and I of saint Dominike, and I of S Benet, & other such like, which be in greater numbered among the christians then ever they were among the paynim, may we not well say unto them with the Apostle, is Christ divided? hath francis or Dominike died for you? or are ye baptized in their names? In as much then as we are baptized in the name of the father, of the son, and of the holy Ghost, what have we need of any other religion but of that, in the which this holy spirit doth reign, which doth learn us to make invocation unto the fathers, in the name of jesus Christ his son, which hath taken us all into their safeguard and protection, what have we need of any other rule, but of that the which jesus Christ hath The Rule of the Religion of Ch●ist Gal. vi. brought us from heaven? Of the which the Apostle doth speak in this manner, all they which walk after this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon Israel of God. Natha. I have learned many goodly points by the occasion of this communion of saints, for thou haste not only taught me what it is, but also what is the true excommunication, religion and christian brotherhood, and what is the honour dene unto Saints, therefore now expound unto me the rest. Phy. Because we have abiden solonge upon these two articles of the church & the communion of Saints, we may here divide our matter and keep the rest till an other time the which shallbe shortly done. Natha. At thine own pleasure be it. ❧ In this last dialogue shall be spoken of the remission of sins, of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, of the resurrection and immortal life. nathanael. We have done so much by our jorneis that we be all most come to the end of the creed, seeing therefore we be arrived thus far fourth, our hearts must not fail us for the little way we have to go. Phy. I have better courage than ever I had, tell me therefore what followeth? Natha. The remission of sins, what is the understanding of this article. Phy. I confess by these words that I believe that as there is one church assemble, and unite by the holy spirit, & in the same o●e communion of all goods, that the sins likewise and the faults be pardoned, unto the faithful by the grace, goodness, and mercy of God, which doth quit them all their debts, to the end they should not be reckoned unto them at his judgement, nor that they should not bear the pain which they have merited and deserved. Humayn Satisfation & merets Nathan. saying there is remission and forgiveness it doth appear & follow that there is nothing of our satisfaction, for where there is pardon, there can be nothing of our merits. Phylype. There is nothing more certain for the dete is not forgiven to him that satisfieth and payeth wherefore it doth follow, in as much as there is remission and forgiveness for us that the satisfaction is of sum other then of ourselves, and that we can pres●t no other recompense unto god, but the satisfaction of his son jesus Christ, for whose love we obtain of the father pardon of all our sins. Natha. And this pardon and remission can we not obtain but in the church. Phy. No for as at the time of the flood, none could be saved which were without the ship or ark of No: so none can avoid the Gen. viii. P●●●r. iii. No salvation ou● of the church judgement of God, and obtain grace and pardon of his misdeeds, except he be a true member of the church, incorporated in the body of jesus Christ, persenering with the people of God in the unity of the faith. Natha. It followeth then that all cismatykes heretics, infidels, excommunicate, and all authors of sects, which be divided and separated from the church: can have no pardon of their sins, but abide in death and damnation unto such time they be recouciled with her. Phy. It is even so. Nathana. Tell me then by what means we obtain pardon in the church. Is it necessary to confess, our sins unto the priests, and to have their absolution for to obtain this remission. Phy. It is very requisite that if we will, that God pardon us that we reknoweledge our faults, but not to the priests, for it is not against them that we have sinned but against God, which only as most sovereign king may give us gr●ce and pardon, and therefore as we have sinned against him, even so must we contest unto him our sins, and ask of him pardon according to the example of David, of Daniel, and of other holy prophets & servants of God. For as Saynce john sayeth (if we confess our sins) he is faithful and will hear us. Natha. I understand well, we must confess ourselves unto God first, but is it not re-requisite that we confess ourselves unto men. Phy. We may confess us unto men in divers sorts, as first. If we have offended any we ought to reknoweledge our faults towards him, and ask him pardon, and enforce ourselves to return into favour with him, for we can not obtain pardon of god so long as the injury we have done unto one neighbour doth accuse us before him, asking vengeance against us, except we study to reconcile ourselves, vn●o him whom we have offended, and this confession may be called brotherly reconciliation the which jesus Christ doth greatly recommend unto us. There is yet another manner of reconsiliation towards men, the which may be both public and particular, for when we have been Open confession in error, and abused in Idolatry and superstition, and have offended God, we ought not to be ashamed to reknoweledge our faults openly, and to give thanks unto God, as did i timo. i Math. i. Act. two. iii. saint Paul, writing unto Timothe, and they which did come unto the baptism of john baptist, and they which were converted by the p●eachynge of saint Petre, and also of the Ephesians which did burn the books of sorcery: even so them, as I may reknowledg and confess my faults openly in this manner, ●efore the church of God: even so may I do in particular or secret unto my neighbour & for to have council and consolation of him or for to reconcile myself unto him if I have Particular confession offended him or to the end he pray to God for me, unto such confession doth saint james exhort us saying, Confess your selves one to an other, and pray each one for other, he doth not say, confess the unto the priests, for as we ought to pray the one for the other, & not the priests only, even so ought we to reknowledge our faults one to an other, & confess our infirmities for to give praises unto God, for the entertaining of amity among us & every one to seek the quietness of other, but I have not found in all the holy scripture that God hath commanded us to go to tell all our sins in the eat of a priest, for that is impossible, & God doth not so much desire the reliting of our sins by particular, Math. xvi. as the contrition, sighs, & sorrows of the heart & the tears, as we have example in. S. Petre which did much better confess his sins with his heart & his eyes than with mouth. Natha. I find that, that thou sayest is very good, but I would yet fain know how this remission is practised in the church, and how we be partakers of it, is it not by the bulls, indulgence and pardons given by the Pope? Phy. It is by pardon and indulgence but not of paper and perchement sealed with wax or lead, as those which the Pope giveth, but by the indulgence and bulls that the celestial father hath sent us from heaven by his son jesus Christ written in our hearts with his own proper finger, and by his holy spirit sealed with his precious blood, & ratified, and confirmed by his death & passion. Natha. The bulls and pardons of the pope be then nothing worth. Phy. Yes they profit them that giveth them, as touching their bodies because they take money for them, but they bring great damage and hurt unto their souls, & also unto the bodies and souls and goods of them that receive them, for in as much as they seek remission of sins by any other mean then by the blood of our Lord jesus Christ they do not believe the remission of sins the which they confess, the which is in the church of jesus christ, wherefore they abide always in their sin & damnation, & subjects to the cuisse & malediction that S. Petre did give unto Simon Magus & his money. Nata. Thou wilt then say there ●● no other true pope that may give us indulgence and pardon, for to deface and take away ours sins but jesus Christ, but by what means doth he make us partakers of his pardons and indulgences? Phylype. By the ministeri of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, that is to say, by the predication & preaching o● his word which is the true key of knowledge. nathanael. And who then hath these keys ●uc. xi. Math. xxiii Math. xvi. Phy. The church to whom Christ hath given them, and be put in ure, and practise by all true evangelical Apostles, pastors, ministers & priests. Nata. Have they then authority and power to pardon sins, & to absolve men? Phy. Not of themselves, but by the ministration of the keys, and preaching of the gospel. Natha. Speak this more clearly. Phy. There is but the only God that may pardon and forgive sins, and that may give grace, but when by his ministers he doth offer unto us Iesu Christ his son, by his word, and in him remission of our sins, he that believeth is saved, unbound and delivered from his sins, and he that believeth not, abideth bound and damned as the minister openeth unto him by the word. Natha. Then the ministers be but servants & ambassadors, & have no authority nor power▪ but so much as the● take of the word, & in that they do faithfully set forth their message and ambassade. Phy. No for none can pardon the sins but God, & when man doth open the word of god, it is not man that speaketh, but it is the spirit of God that speaketh in him, by the which the bearer is bound, or loosed, according to his faith or unbelief. Therefore did jesus Christ blow toward his disciples & gave them the holy ghost before he said unto them, whose sins soever ye forgive shall be forgiven, & whose sins soever ye retain shallbe retained, he would by that show that it was the holy Ghost that did pardon them, and not they which he did use as his instruments and messengers. Natha. I understand well, it is as an ambassador, which if he fayethfullye execute his Math. x. Ihon. x. cha●ge the prince confirmeth it that he doth if he do otherwise he will not confirm it, but punish him grievously. Phylype. It is as a man that will open a gate, it he have no key or if the key that he hath be not meet for the lock, he can not open it, and therefore in asmuch as jesus Christ● is the door and the way, by the which only we may go unto the father Rom. x. Luc. xi. and we can not go unto jesus Christ but by faith, which openeth unto us the door and all the treasures that be in him, and faith cometh by hearing of the word of God, which is the key of knowledge, it doth well follow that all the power of the Apostles & of their successors is there limited, & that he that hath not this key, is no minister of christ. Natha. I may then well understand by this that the power of the pope, of bishops, and priests doth extend so far as they follow the word of God, and God doth approve and confirm that which they do by it, & that which they do without it, or against it he doth condemn all. Phy. If thou wilt see the practice of this, consider how. S. Peter did use at Jerusalem, he did open jesus Christ, penance, and remission of sins in his name Practies of the keys Act. two. iii. unto the jews, they which the word did touch at the heart, and believed in it were loosed by his ministery according to the promise of jesus christ, saying that he that believeth Mark. xvi. & is baptized shall be saved, & contrary wise he that believeth not shallbe condemned, it followeth them that all the infidels abide bound as by the open preaching, all the hearers be bound or unbound, according to their faith or unbelief, even so be we by all the particular admonitions of the Gospel, opened, & showed forth unto us by the servants of God visiting, correcking, admonishing, or consolating of us other in health or sikcenes. nathanael. This point is enough opened Resurection of the flesh & declared, let us come now unto that which followeth of the resurrection of the flesh and the life eternal, which shallbe for the end & conclusion, wherefore be these two last articles put in? Phy. For many causes, for without them all the religion were nothing, for if we believe not the resurrection of the flesh, & that our bodies should rise again after this i Cor. xv. mortal life, we should be most miserable of all men, & should reverse all the evangelical preaching which should also be false & ●ame if it were otherwise. Natha. What understandest thou then by the resurrection of the flesh? Phy. I understand that every one shall arise truly in his proper body, & that the same body, & the same flesh which shall have slept, & shall have been corrupted, and consumed in the earth unto powder, shallbe fully restored, & again conjoined with his soul after she shall have put of all infirmity, & corruption for to be like unto the glorious body of jesus. Natha How may it be done that the body which Ihon. nineteen. hath be turned into pondre & earth, should be restored into greater dignity than ever i● was & to be immortal. Phi. We may not ask how that may be done which god hath promised for that is most sure, he that hath made man of nothing, is he not strong enough to restore him again, we see every day the experience of this in the corn when it is sown, it seemeth to be lost, & doth corrupt in the earth but after it cometh forth much fairer and fruitful. nathanael. Then when a man is put in the earth according to the ordinance of God, he is sown as the wheat in the earth, and abideth the time ordained of god, at the which time he doth arise come, forth of the earth, & is all together perfect. Phy. Even so it is, for as the wheat because of the sprout that he doth bear doth take again and is revived: even so the faithful which die and go to rest with the sprout of jesus Christ which is the spirit of god is raised again by the self same spirit which raised up jesus Christ from the dead. nathanael. There riseth none then, but the true christians, Phylyp. All shall arise both good and evil. Natha. But in asmuch as the unfaithful de part not from this world, with the sprout or spring of Christ, how be they partakers of his resurrection? Phy. They are not partakers of his resurrection, saying they rise in condemnation, for to go unto the second death but as they be dead with the sprout of Satan which is mortal: even so shall they arise for to be punished eternally with him. Nath. There is then a life eternal and a death eternal. Phi. We must not doubt, the one is comuneto the good, the other unto the reproved, and therefore do we conclude the articles of our faith, by the eternal life, which is the end & consummation of all things. Natha. Did it not suffice to say, I believe the resurrection? Wherefore put we to, Of the flesh Or wherefore say we not aswell the resurrection of the body, as of the flesh? Phy. We say first. The resurrection, for to declare that the same self man which did fall by death shall arise and be raised, and to the end that none should think that the resurrection shallbe only of the soul without the body, & in the immortality of the same as the philosophers have thought, or that the same propre bodies which we have should not arise again but should be changed into other, or should be converted into spirit, we do say notabli, the resurrection of the flesh for to declare that the self same body, and the self same flesh which we have borne from the womb of our mother shall arise in glory, in incorruption, & immortality. Nathan. And did it not suffice to confess the resurrection of the flesh, without putting to of the eternal life? Is it not all one? Phy. We declare by that, that we do not rise for to die again, as they did which were raised again miraculously by jesus Christ, by the Apostles and prophets, but shall arise into a life far differing from this which shall be immortal and perdurable for ever, for we shallbe out of all miseries, and shallbe no more subjects to poverty, hunger, thirst, sickness, death, sin, nor hell, but shallbe like unto Math. xxii. the Angels of God with the which we The food of eternal life. shall reign eternally. Natha. This shall be then a life without eating or drinking. Phy. No, but the meat that we shall eat, and the pleasures that we shall have, shall not be such as Mahumite doth promise to them that keep his laws, but all shall be sateled, & satisfied of the tree & bread of life, of the goodness and glory of God, for of meats, and other i Cor. xv. corruptible things there shall be no need when the cause for the which we use them shall be taken away, that is to say, when that death shall be abolished, and that our corruption & mortality shall be turned into incorruption & immortality, and that the last enemy, sin death, Satan, and hell, shall be overthrown and that God shallbe all in all. Natha. saying the evil and reproved shall as well arise as the faithful, and that there is as well an eternal death for them, as a life eternal for the faithful Wherefore makest thou no mention but of the one, and speakest no word of the other? Phy. Because the faithful have nothing ado with the unfayethful. And therefore do we leave apart and do not touch in this sum of our faith, but that which serveth unto the consolation of the elected, for to show unto them the goods that be given them of God. Nathana. In what manner may we use this article to our profit? Phylype. It doth teach The sovereign goodness of man. us that which we have all ready treated in the beginning of our matter, that is to say in what doth lie the sovereign goodness and the felisitie of man, we may well by this know that we must not seek it in this earth, nor in this present life, and if we well understand this, we shall also know that all this mortal life is but a pilgrimage, & that we must not seek here any permanente city or dwelling, nor to rote our hearts in these Hebr. xiii. corruptible things, but to seek an other, and to repute ourselves as strangers in this world, according to the example of the holy patriarchs. This faith also teacheth us not to be discouraged though we feel ourselves overwhelmed with so many evils in the mean time whilst our life is as yet hidden in jesus Christ, and that we can not as yet fully feel Colo. iii. the fruit nor the grace that God hath done to us in him, and for to redress us in hope, and to sustain and suffer by patience unto such time that jesus christ shallbe revealed from heaven, and that we shall have full rejoicing of the glory and felicity, that we abide and look for. nathanael. Thou haste so well satisfied me in all things that I can ask nor require any more, but to give the thanks for the pain thou haste taken with me, and yield graces & thanks unto God, who hath done us so much good. To whom I pray that it will please him so well to imprint in our hearts this faith, of the which we have so much spoken that it may have efficatie in us by charity in such sort, that the Image of jesus Christ may be seen in us to shive. And that by him we may come unto the same sovereign goodness & eternal beatitude unto the which we be borne & called. Phylip. God give us that grace as I hope he will do unto whom I also pray to have the always in his keeping. Natha. So be it of the FINIS. Imprinted at London by john Day and William Se●es, dwelling in Sepulchres Parish at the sign of the Resurrection a little above Holborn Londuite. Cum gratia & privilegio ad imprimendum solum.