THE SURVEY OF CHRIST'S SUFFERINGS FOR MAN'S redemption: AND OF HIS DESCENT TO HADES OR HELL for our deliverance: By THOMAS BILSON Bishop of Winchester.  
The Contents whereof may be seen in certain Resolutions before the Book, in the Titles over the Pages, and in a Table made to that end.  ROM. 6. v. 10. In that (Christ) died, he died to sin ONCE. ROM. 10. v. 6. & 7. Say not in thine heart, Who shall descend to the bottomless deep? That is to bring Christ back from the dead. AUGUST. Epist. 99 
Quod fuerit anima mortificatus jesus, quis audeat dicere?  
That jesus was dead in soul, who dare avouch?  
Quis nisi Infidelis negaverit fuisse apud Inferos Christum?  
Who but an Infidel will deny Christ was in Hell?  
Perused and allowed by public Authority.  
LONDON, Printed by Melchisedech Bradwood for john Bill. M. DC. four   

TO THE HIGH AND MIGHTY, WISE, AND RELIGIOUS PRINCE, JAMES by the grace of God King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, Defender of the true and Christian Faith etc.  
MOst religious and renowned Prince, if the Heathen, reaching no farther than the light of Nature could lead them, saw those Commonweals would soon flourish, whose Governors were given to the study of Philosophy; how much rather must Christians ascribe that to heavenly Wisdom, which they did to earthly, and confess those Realms to be blessed indeed, where the chief Rulers are careful to seek first the Kingdom of God, & to prefer the love of true piety before all respect of human policy? For since God's purpose and promise is to honour them 
1. Sam. 2.  that honour him; and no good thing can be wanting to those that rightly worship him according to his will; how liberal benedictions & merciful protections may those Princes hope for at God's hands, who set their hearts wholly to seek him, and make all their ways strait in his sight? This favour from heaven, to be guided by good and godly Princes, the Realm of England hath tasted a long time, to their no small comfort; whiles for these 45 years by the Christian care of a most mild and gracious Queen, (now with God) they have been directed to the truth of the Gospel of Christ; and defended in peace from the violence of all impeachers and impugners of either. And after her decease, though our unthankfulness had provoked the wrath of God, and our unfruitfulness well deserved, the Kingdom of God should be taken from us; yet he that is rich in mercy towards all that call on him, respecting more the glory of his name, lest his enemies should blaspheme, than any worthiness of ours, not only continued, but increased his accustomed goodness to us; and gave your Majesty, being the lineal and rightful heir to the Crown of this Realm, a present and peaceable entrance with the greatest applause of all states, sorts, and sides, that hath been seen these many ages; and specially of the godly, who saw the happiness of the former government would be doubled by the manifold gifts and graces of your Christian and Princely integrity, clemency, bounty, wisdom, and piety. And surely their hope hath not deceived them: for who so hath rightly discerned, and duly considered your be●…ignesse of nature, your ripeness of judgement, your deepness of wisdom, your uprightness of justice, your readiness to mercy, your bounteousness to the best, your evenness to all, your desire of peace, your care of your people, your favour to your Clergy, and respect to your Church; your promptness in professing, and steadfastness in establishing the true service of God amongst us, which your Highness hath constantly showed since you came to the Crown, can not but acknowledge that to be justly applied to your Majesty, which was first said of Solomon: Blessed be the Lord your God, which loved you to set you on the Throne (of all Britain) because the Lord loved this land, & made you King to do equity and justice: happy are those your servants, which stand ever before you, and hear your wisdom. Whereof, because it pleased God and your Majesty, I should attend you aswell at your Table in your first Progress into these Countries of Surrey and Hampshire, as at your conference for matters of Religion, and assembly of States for the welfare of this Realm, I can bear certain and assured witness; as likewise can the rest of your Nobles and Bishops then present; who all, with no less admiration than contentation, heard, with what sharpness of understanding, maturenesse of knowledge, soundness of reason, firmness of memory, and aptness of speech, your Highness entered, debated and resolved the greatest and hardest points of divine and human wisdom; showing in every of them such dexterity, perspicuity, and sufficiency, as I profess before God without flattery, I have not observed the like in any man living. As therefore I judge the whole Realm blessed and beloved of God for giving them a Prince of such rare prudence, intelligence, and experience; so do I after the example of the Apostle think myself happy, that I shall this day 
Acts 26.  bring these matters in question before so learned, religious, and judicious a King, no less skilful in the sacred Scriptures, than careful to continue the true Christian faith throughout his Dominions, without dissenting from the will of God revealed in his Word, or departing from the primitive Church of Christ in her best and purest times.  
May it then please your excellent Majesty to be informed, that upon some men's too much forwardness to innovate as well the doctrine as the discipline of the Church of England, (they thinking those devices always best, which are newest) it was rife in Pulpits, and usual in Catechisms, that the death of Christ jesus on the Cross, and his bloodshed for the remission of our sins, were the least cause and mean of our redemption; but he did, and must suffer the death of the soul, and the very same pains which the damned do in hell, before we could be ransomed from the wrath of God; and this was that descent of Christ to hell, which we are taught by the Creed to believe. This opinion began to prevail so fast, that children were trained to it, and the people led to control the Scriptures, as not rightly delivering the true cause of our redemption by Christ, in that they mention no mean to ransom us from death and hell, but the blood of his cross, and death admitted in the body of his flesh; and therefore in all such places we must (as they say) by a kind of Synecdoche conceive the death of the damned to have been suffered for a season in the soul of Christ, and that to be the full and perfect price of our redemption. I was much grieved, I confess to your sacred Majesty, to find this so often in Catechisms, and frequent in Pulpits, and without just ground in the Word of God to be so confidently blazed, whiles the doctrine of this Realm, proposed by public authority to the people in the Book of Homilies, was neglected and loathed: And upon conference with the most reverend Father the late Archbishop (now with God) was advised in open audience to deliver, what the Scriptures teach touching our redemption by the death and bloodshedding of jesus Christ the Son of God. Which accordingly I did, declaring by occasion of the Apostles words, Be it far from me to rejoice, but in the Cross of Christ, first the Contents, and then the Effects of Christ's cross. In the Contents of Christ's cross I 
The sermons  showed what Christ suffered by the witness of holy Scripture, and what he suffered not; and there joined this issue; That no Scripture doth teach the death of Christ's soul, or the pains of the damned, to be requisite in the person of Christ, before he could be the Ransomer of our sins, and Saviour of the world. And because the proofs, pretended for this point, might be three; Predictions, that Christ should suffer those pains; Causes, why he must suffer them; and Signs, that he did suffer them: I likewise insisted on all three, and showed there were no such Predictions, Causes, nor Signs of the true pains of hell to be suffered in the soul of Christ, before he could save us. Wherein, his Agony in the Garden, and Complaint on the Cross were examined, as well by the rules of holy Scripture, as by the main consent of all the Fathers. And lest the death of Christ suffered in the body of his flesh on the altar of the Cross, as it is described in the Scriptures, and the shedding of his precious blood should be disabled or disinherited of any, as no sufficient means or price of our redemption; in the Effects of Christ's cross, I proved the merits of Christ's suffering to be infinite in respect of his person, who was God, and of the perfection of his obedience unto the death of the Cross; the manner of his offering to be bloody foreshowed by the Sacrifices of the Law, and sealed by the Sacraments of the Gospel; the power of his death to be mighty as able to conquer Sin, Hell, and Satan; the comfort of his Cross to be necessary to which we must all be conformed to suffer with him, before we can reign with him; the victory thereof to be heavenly, in that he rose the third day into a celestial and eternal life, having all his enemies under his feet. Yet for peace sake I yielded, the name of hell-paines might in some sort be tolerated in the sufferings of Christ, if we meant thereby great and intolerable pains, as the word is sometimes metaphorically taken in the Scriptures, at the least by our vulgar translation: for the word indeed was Sheôl, which is used aswell for the grave, as for hell; and so those speeches of David, That the pains of Sheol found him out or compassed him, might import the pains of death, which brought men to their graves.  
And concerning that Article of our Faith, Christ descended to Hell; I taught, it might not by the course of the Creed be referred to Christ living, but to Christ dead, and safely note the conquest which Christ's manhood after death had over all the powers of darkness, declared by his resurrection, when he rose Lord over all his enemies in his own person; Death, Hell, and Satan not excepted; and had the Keys (that is, all power) of death and hell delivered him by God, that those in heaven, earth, and hell should stoop unto him, and be subject to the strength and glory of his Kingdom. These things were first uttered by speech, and after committed to writing, that aswell the parts as proofs of every point might more plainly appear to all that would examine them. My care was in either of these to join with the doctrine prescribed by the book of Homilies to be taught in the Church of God to the people; That there is none other thing, that can be named under heaven, to 
The first and second Sermon of the Passion.  save our souls, but this only work of Christ's precious offering his body upon the Altar of the Crosse. For so great was God's wrath and displeasure towards sin, that he could be pacified by no other means, but only by the sweet and precious blood of his dear Son. And so pleasant was this sacrifice and oblation of his sons death, which he so obediently and innocently suffered, that God would take it for the only and full amends for all the sins of the world. As for Christ's descent to hell, I delivered the same ends and intents, which the book of Homilies doth, where it saith; Christ's death destroyed death, and overcame the Devil. 
The Sermon of the Resurrection.  His death destroyed hell with all the damnation thereof. Christ passed thorough death and hell, to the intent to put us in good hope, that by his strength we shall do the same. He destroyed the Devil, and all his tyranny, and openly triumphed over him, and took away from him all his Captives (meaning all the Elect) and hath raised, and set them with himself amongst the heavenly Citizens above.  
These things thus preached and printed by me, it may please your excellent Majesty to understand, were first impugned by an hasty and humorous Treatise, whiles my Sermons were yet under the Press; and after by a larger and warier Defence, which is this that I now refute. The Treatiser sliding 
The Trea●…ise.  from the things proposed by me, (wherein he could not open his mouth but with as many untruths as words) did bear men in hand the question was, Whether Christ suffered for us the wrath of God, or no; whereas I moved no such doubt, but rather acknowledged, That all which Christ suffered in soul or in body, was the wrath of God against our sins; if we speak as the Scriptures do of punishments provided ●…or this life, where Christ did suffer, and not of the wrath to come, which is the vengeance prepared for the Devil and the damned in another world. And because in this Treatise I found more distempered pangs of erroneous folly, than advised steps of learning or religion, I refeled the chief reasons thereof in a Conclusion added to my Sermons, as they 
The Conclusion of the Sermons.  were in printing; not thinking it worth my time or pains to make any longer resutation of him, that remembered so little of that I had uttered, and reasoned so loosely for that which he would establish.  
No sooner were those Sermons and that Conclusion published, but the curious Brethren, seeing their kingdom of conceits impugned, made their observations on both, and sent their collections and reasons to the Treatiser, that he might make a fresh Defence; correcting in many things his 
The Defence.  former rashness, and now leading him rather cunningly to cavil with the Father's speeches, than so proudly to disdain their testimonies: which maketh him not only to change his mind in many matters from that he said before, but often to cross himsel●…e in the self same leaf, whiles he doth not mark what he saith out of his own heart, and what he bringeth out of other men's supplies and papers. In this Defence (for so they call it) they labour more to impeach my proofs, than to justify his former reasons; and as it were slipping their own necks out of the collar, they invade my Sermons with their whole might, making the world believe, I have not only proved nothing, but uttered such strange positions, as no Divinity will endure. Howbeit in their hottest onsets I might soon perceive, they still wrested my words from their right sense, as they did both Scriptures and Fathers; and shrouded themselves under certain general and ambiguous phrases, as, That Christ suffered the proper wrath and mere justice of God, and full punishment of sin, in substance, though not in circumstance; with which they seek to blind the Reader and entangle the Opponent, that he should never find their exact and particular Assertion, but they would always be sure to have a refuge to their large and unknown coverts; from which they step not an inch, and without which they say nothing, for fear to be taken tardy with heresy or open impiety.  
To waste time, and enter brabbles about words, my manifold businesses and public services did not suffer me; and had not my late Sovereign (now with God) at her last being at the Castle of Farnham taken knowledge of the things questioned betwixt me and them, and directly commanded me neither to desert the doctrine, nor to let the calling, which I bear in the Church of God, to be trampled under foot by such unquiet Refusers of truth and authority, I confess to your excellent Majesty, I had made far shorter work with them, and not spent a quarter of the paper which now is bestowed on the cause. Upon her appointment, which was sacred to me (notwithstanding my sickness, which detained me two years from study, whiles I was forced to seek the recovery of my health, and many other affairs and attendances, which continually called me away) I began to review the whole; and since there was neither order nor method in their writing, to trace them in their confusion, which hath been most tedious; and in the end to let them see, That neither for themselves, nor against me, in that whole Defence they have uttered one true sentence; though the weightiest and most of their matters, besides their dark and deceitful generalities, be proposed with as it were, in a sense, it seemeth, after a sort, and such like wavering and perplexed speech. I have open●…d to your most sacred Majesty, most prudent Prince, the cause and course of this large Survey, which it hath pleased God to reserve to your Princely view, my late Sovereign being taken out of this life the beginning of that Summer, wherein I meant to commit it to the Press; and so had I done the first year of your majesties entering into this Realm, had not the infection of your principal city, and my attendance on your Majesty (as my duty bound me) here in this country stayed me.  
The points handled in the former Sermons, and justified in this later Survey, are many, and those very material; the chief heads whereof, though they appear aswell in the Titles over ●…ch Page, as in the Table prepared of purpose to help the confusion of their Defence, yet I will summarily contract and annex to these presents, that your Princely wisdom may with more ease perceive in every of these things controversed, what I defend; and censure the same, when it hath pleased your Highness at your leisure to view the particular parts and proofs, as it seemeth best to your learned and religious judgement. My only desire, and humble petition to your most sacred Majestic, as becometh a Christian Bishop, is, That in the foundations of our faith, I mean the work and mean of our Redemption and Reconciliation to God by jesus Christ, men be not suffered, under your godly government, to preach or publish their unwritten fancies, and by their continual Synecdoches, which are manifest additions to the Word of God, to alter and invert the Truth, so plainly, fully, and frequently delivered by the Apostles of Christ in the sacred Scriptures: lest if they get this liberty, with unnecessary figures where they list to interlace the Word of God in these main points of Salvation, they leave neither doctrine nor discipline sound in the end.  
And as in the first question they add to Christ's sufferings the death of the soul and of the damned, though there be no such thing warranted or witnessed in the Scriptures; so in the second they outface Christ's Descent to Hell with phrases and figures, when it is plainly professed in the Creed, (where not phrases of speech, but Articles of faith are delivered) and expressed in the Scriptures, That Christ's soul was not left (or forsaken) in hell; and that very place alleged by Peter, as properly pertaining to Christ, and no way common to him with David, who being a Prophet, knew that God had sworn with an oath to raise up Christ, to set him upon his Throne, & to make him Lord (of all) and Christ, that is, the anointed Saviour of his people from Sin, Death, and Hell. And though all the Father's Greek and Latin from the Apostles times, have received, believed, and delivered that to be the sense of Peter's words; as likewise of Paul's: That Christ, who ascended on high, descended first to the lower parts of the earth; yet they stick neither at Scriptures, Creeds, nor Fathers, but wrench and wrangle with them all, subjecting every thing to their sleights and shifts, that they may reign as they will in the Word of God. Where likewise they shame not to condemn all the Father's Greek and Latin, as conspiring against the Truth, and perverting the Scriptures, by altering the authentic use of words; for which they appeal to Plato and profane Poets. This the Treatiser blusheth not to write: This jaffirme; It is only the Father's abusive 
Treat. pag. 95.  speaking, and altering the ancient sense of Hades, that hath bred this ●…rrour of Christ's descending into Hell; their unapt and perilous translating it into Latin, Inferi; and our naughty and corrupt translating in English, Hell, hath confirmed the same. And note here this first; It is a thing too rife with the Fathers, yea with some of the ancientest of them, to alter and change the authentic use of words, whereby consequently it is easy for errors and gross mistake to creep in. This loud and lewd Proclamation he maketh against all Christian Writers, Greek, Latin, and English, since the first foundation of the Church, and yet therein erreth most absurdly and shamefully. For the Greek Fathers use the word Hades, as the Apostles and Evangelists did; for the place where torments after this life are prepared for the wicked; and the profane Grecians (one conceit of Socrates excepted) did always take it for a place of darkness under the earth, whither they thought good and bad descended; the wicked to punishment, the better sort to such delights, as carnal men dreamt of after death in their Elysian fields. In both these questions I have not spared (most religious Prince) aswell to examine the Scriptures with all diligence, as to show the confession and resolution of Christ's Church long before our times, that all the world may see, I maintain none other grounds of Faith, nor sense of Scripture, than have been anciently, constantly and continually professed, and believed in the Church of Christ for these fifteen hundred years, till this our present Age; and the same allowed and ratified by the public laws of this Realm, which your Majesty in your most Princely wisdom and courage profess to uphold and continue.  
God for his holy Names sake bless your most sacred Majesty, and prosper all your virtuous and Christian cares, that as in learning and wisdom, in clemency and piety, he hath made you the Mirror of this Age; so in peace and prosperity, in concord and unity, in all happiness and felicity, he may exalt you above all your neighbour Princes; and having united the two Realms of England and Scotland in one subjection under your Princely right and regiment, he will knit the hearts and hands of both to honour and serve you, love and obey you, and your royal issue after you, to the world's end.  
Your majesties most humble subject and servant THO. WINTON.   

THE CHIEF RESOLUTIONS OF THIS Survey.  
THe clearness and fullness of the Scriptures in the work of our Redemption is exactly to be reverenced; so as no man ought to teach or believe any thing touching our redemption by Christ, which is not expressly witnessed in the sacred Scriptures: much less may we distrust the manifest words of the holy Ghost to be impertinent or unsufficient in declaring the true price and mean of our redemption.  
The main ground of the Gospel, which the Apostles preached, the faithful received, wherein they continued, and whereby they were saved, was this; That Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and was buried, and rose the third day; according to the Scriptures. Since than we are reconciled to God by the death of his Son, we must acknowledge none other death of Christ then that which he suffered in the body of his flesh, after which he was buried, and from which he rose the third day, which death the Scriptures most apparently describe to be the death of Christ's body.  
If we were redeemed by the blood of Christ, and God proposed him (to be) a Reconciliation through faith in his blood, which was shed for the remission of sins; we may not presume to appoint a new price of our redemption, or new mean of our reconciliation; since by the blood of his cross Christ hath pacified both the things in earth, and things in heaven; and the blood of jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin.  
The Scriptures do no where teach, nor mention the death of Christ's Joule, or the death of the damned, which is the second death, to be needful for our redemption. We must not therefore intrude ourselves into God's seat to ord●…ne a new course for man's redemption.  
If the Spirit do quicken, and the just live by faith, and he that abideth in love, abideth in God, who is life; it was utterly impossible, but the soul of Christ in that abundance of Spirit, evidence of Faith, assurance of Hope, and perfection of Love, which he always retained, should always live to God.  
Life and death being opposed as privatives, and so not to be found in one and the same subject at one and the same time; the soul of Christ always living, could never be dead. Neither could a dead soul be pleasing to God, (who is whole life, and therefore hateth death as contrary to his nature;) when yet he was always well pleased with Christ.  
Where some imagine extreme pain in Christ's soul may be called the death of his soul; that position is repugnant to the Scriptures: for the greater the pain which the soul feeleth, and endureth with innocency, confidence, obedience, and patience, (such as were all Christ's sufferings) the more the soul liveth and cleaveth to God, for whose glory it suffereth so much smart; as appeareth in Martyrs, whose souls do most live in their greatest torments.  
The late device of hell-paines in Christ's passion is not only false, but also superfluous: for the true pains of hell neither are, nor can be suffered in this life, where, by God's ordinance extreme pain driveth the soul from the body: much less can man or Angel endure them with obedience and patience, as Christ did all his pains. And what need was there of hell-paines in the cross of Christ, since God can by every means, or without means raise more pains in body or soul, than any creature can endure.  
Christ's soul could not be strooken with any horror of God's displeasure against him, since in his greatest anguish he professed God to be his God, and his Father, and by prayer prevailed for his persecutors (as appeared after by their conversion) and gave eternal life to the soul of the Thief hanging by him, and believing on him. Now to give life is more than to have life; and restore others to favour he can not, that himself is in displeasure.  
hellfire, which the damned and devils do and shall suffer, is a true and eternal fire prepared by the mighty hand of God to punish aswell spirits as bodies; and this error, That the fire of hell was only an internal or spiritual fire in the souls and consciences of men, was long since condemned in Origen by the Church of Christ.  
Rejection therefore, desperation, confusion, horror of damnation, external and eternal fire, which are the torments of the damned, and true pains of hell, can not without blasphemy be ascribed to Christ. Christ therefore suffered neither the death of the soul, nor the pains nor horrors os the damned, or of hell.  
Every sin is common to the whole man, who is defiled even with thoughts that be evil; not only because the body is the Seat, wherein, and the instrument, whereby the soul worketh; but also for that the first infection of sin cometh to the soul by the body, and the first information and provocation to sin riseth from the senses and affections, which are moved with corporal spirits; and all the parts and powers of the body attend the will with most ready subjection to have each sin (which the soul conceiveth) impressed on them, and executed by them. And therefore the suffering for sin in the person of the Mediator, must be common both to body and soul in such sort, that as in transgressing, our souls are the principal Agents, so in the suffering for sin, his soul was the principal Patient.  
Christ would use no power to assuage the force and violence of his pains, (though he wanted none, as appeareth by his overthrowing them with a word, that came to apprehend him;) but submitted himself to his Father's will with greater obedience and patience, than any man living could. We may therefore safely believe, That the justice of God condemning sin in (Christ's) flesh, proportioned the pains of his body, in which he bore our sins, to the strength of his patience; and so both his pains and his patience far exceeded all men's. The rather for that Christ's sense did not fail him by degrees, as ours doth, when the pains of death are extremest, which drive our souls from our bodies; but he did in most perfect sense feel the sting and bitterness of pain to the last breath; by reason he was of his own accord, at an instant appointed by his Father, to breath out his own soul, and so did, to the great admiration of the Centurion that observed it; and consequently he retained firmness of voice, and exactness of sense, all the while his pains were at sharpest.  
The soul is punished in this life by her understanding, will, affections, and senses, according as their objects, directed and strengthened by God, make violent and vehement impressions; the torment of hellfire being the judgement of another world. Neither is God the tormenter of souls in hell with his immediate hand, but by his wisdom and power hath ordained everlasting fire, as an external Agent above nature, to take vengeance of damned men and devils according to their deserts.  
No Scripture doth teach, That God with his immediate hand tormented the soul of his Son on the Cross, or in the Garden; notwithstanding Christ's soul was full of fear and sorrow in the Garden, and of grief and pain on the Cross: all which outward and inward passions ne did, ne could pervert Christ's will, nor oppress his power; but they must all be voluntary, that they might all be meritorious; and the more Christ's power was to admit them, when he would, as he would, and because he would; the more his obedience was to the will and hand of God, who forced nothing on Christ against his will, but by that which was offered and suffered, tried the obedience of his Son, and accepted all from him as a most willing Sacrifice.  
The wrath of God punishing our sins in the person of Christ, was neither such as the Damned in hell, nor as the Reprobate in earth do suffer; but rather common to the members of Christ, who must drink of this Cup, have fellowship with his afflictions, and be conformed to his death, though they never feel the true pains of hell, nor have their souls tormented by God's immediate hand. Neither was it any other wrath, than such as might stand with God's love towards his Son, (who did not hate him for our sakes, but loved us for his) and was Fatherly tempered to the strength of Christ's manhood, and graciously overruled and quenched by the favour that God bore to the person of his Son. And therefore the terms of mere and proper wrath (if they mean proper to the damned) are false and impious in Christ's sufferings, which neither in manner, measure, nor purpose, did agree with the torments of the damned.  
The true and full satisfaction for our sins, must not be derived from the singularity and infinity of Christ's pains, longer and greater than which the damned and devils do every one suffer; but from the dignity of the person, who being the only and eternal Son of God that made us, humbled himself in our stead, and in our nature to restore us, and offered recompense for our sins, which was his submission and obedience unto the death of the Cross, more pleasing to God than our condemnation to hell could have been: for in this balance between the wrath of God against our sins, and the love of God towards his Son, neither was his justice neglected, nor his love over swayed; but a sweet and wise temper of both was provided for the manhood of his Son, first to suffer with patience, and then to reign with glory; that all the sons of God might be the more willing and ready by his example to obey the will, and abide the hand of God, before they did enter into his Kingdom.  
The Scriptures witnessing, that the Sacrifices of God are a troubled spirit, this might not want in Christ's Sacrifice for sin; but he approaching the presence of God with and for our offences, lawfully might, and exceedingly did fear the greatness and justness of God's anger against our iniquities; and as deeply sorrowed, that God's holiness was so carelessly despised, and highly displeased with our manifold iniquities. Which inward sacrifices of fear and sorrow for us, and our sins, in the person of the Mediator, were no less acceptable to God than the simple suffering of pain.  
Since God's power is despised, where it is not duly feared, and sin is justified, where the displeasing of God is not thoroughly sorrowed; in presenting us and our cause to God, Christ was to yield for us, and in our behalf that infinite submission and fear to the power of God provoked, and contrition and sorrow to the holiness of God offended, which we could never have done. And without these to offer to bear the burden of our sins, was to make light account of our sin against God, and of God's wrath against our sin, which was far from the Son of God.  
There might therefore in Christ's sacrifice for sin not without just cause appear exceeding fear and sorrow, yet both religious, and measured by the rules of obedience and humility, though passing grievous to the soul of Christ. Neither were these submissions and afflictions of Christ's soul answerable to his perfection, and our transgression, if they did not reach to the highest degree of fear and sorrow, that man's nature in Christ was capable of, without distrust of God's favour, or dislike of his justice.  
Christ did not pray in the Garden contrary to his Fathers known will, but made an express and special reservation thereof even in the first part of his prayer. Neither was he amazed and confounded in all the powers of his soul and senses of his body, as these Presumers teach, but he prayed with faith, and suffered with obedience; both which require perfect understanding, will, and memory.  
Many things might concur to increase Christ's sorrow in the Garden, as the rejection of the jews for spilling his blood, the dispersion of his Church, all flying and forsaking him; the continual rage of Satan against his weak and fearful members; Christ now in his temptations and afflictions beholding theirs with great compassion and grief of heart: which is it that Hilary saith; Et tristitia de nobis est, & oratio pro nobis est. Christ sorrowed for us, and 
De Trinitate li. 10.  prayed for us.  
An Agony is properly a vehement contention of mind to prevail in that we undertake, rightly weighing and striving to remove the difficulties and impediments objected to hinder the event.  
Christ's bloody sweat, if it were natural, must proceed rather from zeal and intention of mind, than from fear and sorrow; which cool the blood, and quench the spirits; whereas the spirits must be mightily kindled, and the blood much heated and thinned, before it can issue forth by sweat. And since by the words of Saint Luke, Christ fell into an Agony after an Angel appeared from heaven, and comforted or strengthened him (with a message from God) it seemeth rather an effect of Christ's intentive prayer which the Scripture there mentioneth; than a consequent to any other passion or pain.  
Christ's intentive prayer, after comfort received by an Angel from heaven, might proceed from his ardent desire, care, and zeal of our redemption from the wrath of God, and protection from the rage of Satan. And therefore, as the Prophet foreshowed he should not only bear the sins of many, but pray for the Trespassers, Christ might spend all the spirits and powers of body and soul in most vehement and fervent prayer, even unto a bloody sweat, to have all his members pardoned their sins, and reconciled to God by the sacrifice of his body, which he would offer for them; and also to have Satan cast out from accusing them, and in the end trodden under their feet.  
If Christ's bloody sweat were supernatural; we must ask no cause thereof, but leave it to his sacred will, who could above nature do what he would. That it was no proof of hell pains, appeareth plainly, because Christ after in greater pains on the Cross did not sweat blood; and of all those, whom these men imagine suffered hell pains in the Scriptures, no one can be produced, that ever sweat blood.  
The word (forsaking) used by Christ in his Complaint on the Cross, doth not in all the Scriptures infer the pains of the damned; but in the wicked it noteth rejection, desperation, and fear of damnation; and in the godly it argueth want of protection, or decrease of consolation in their troubles. In Christ it might show the time, the cause, the manner, or the grief of his being so long forsaken, and left to the rage and reproach of his persecutors, without any sensible sign of God's love towards him, care for him, help in his troubles, or exse in his pains; but it doth not prove, that Christ thought himself forsaken of God's favour, grace, or spirit; which fear or doubt could not be in him without a manifest touch of error, and want of faith.  
Christ never feared nor doubted, that he should or could perish under the hand of God pursuing our sins in the body of his flesh; but for the joy set before him, endured the Cross, and despised the shame; and as S. Peter saith of him at the time of his suffering, he always beheld God at his right hand, that he should not be shaken; and therefore his heart rejoiced, and his tongue was glad, and his flesh rested in hope, because his soul should not be forsaken in hell, nor his flesh see corruption.  
Christ was made a curse for us, in that he suffered the temporal and corporal curses of the Law threatened unto sinners, as all sorts of afflictions belonging to this life, and in the end, a painful and shameful death, by which he abolished the spiritual and eternal curse of God due to us for sin; but he was never inwardly, truly, nor eternally accursed of God, since by tasting of our external curse for a time, he made us partakers of his spiritual and celestial blessedness for ever.  
Christ who knew no sin, was made sin for us, that is, either the punishment of, our sins, or the sacrifice for our sins: for we were healed by his stripes, and he gave himself for us a sacrifice of a sweet smell to God. Being then an holy and acceptable sacrifice to God for sin, he was neither defiled nor hateful to God with our sins: but suffered, the just for the unjust; that is, he took upon him the punishment of our sins, though he were most innocent; and by the holiness of his person, submitting himself to the death of the cross, purged our uncleanness; by his innocency, covered our guiltiness; and by his favour with God, reconciled us that were enemies.  
Christ bore the full punishment of our sins; that is, not all which we should have borne; for than he must have been ever lastingly rejected, confounded and condemned to hell fire, which are most horrible blasphemies; but he bore so much of the punishments of this life, where he suffered, as in his person by the just judgement of God was most sufficient for all our sins.  
TOuching Christ's descent to hell, the words are plainly cited by Peter out of David, that Christ's soul (after death) should not be left in Hades, which Saint Luke in his Gospel useth for the place where torments are prepared for the wicked after this life. And in that sense is the word used throughout the New Testament; as likewise the Greek Fathers took it for the place under the earth, whither the souls of all men were condemned for sin, and where the Devils detain and torment the wicked. That Christ likewise descended to the lower parts of the earth, and to the (bottomless) deep after death, is vouched by Saint Paul; whereupon the whole Church of Christ from the beginning hath confessed his descent to hell to be a point of Christian piety.  
Peter's Sermon (in the second of the Acts) intended not simply to prove that Christ was risen from the dead, as Lazarus and others were; but affirmed farther of him, That God raised him up, to set him on David's Throne; that is, to make him King of Glory. This he proveth, In that Christ's flesh could not see corruption, nor his soul be forsaken in hell; which was verified in none, no not in David (who were all dead, and saw corruption) but only in the Messias. It was therefore impossible, that either death or hell should detain Christ, but he was to rise Lord of death and hell, and the Saviour of all his from both; as appeared by his ascending to heaven, and sitting at the right hand of God. Neither was this strange to the jews, who were taught to expect that to be performed by the Messias, which God promised by his Prophet; O Death, I will be thy death: O Hell, I will be thy destruction.  
Sheol in the Old Testament signifieth the Grave, and Hell; that is, the places whither the dead bodies of all men went, and whither the souls of the wicked dead in sin descended after death. And therefore where it is distinguished from the death of the body, or referred to the soul after death, as it is in David's words applied by Peter to Christ, it apparently signifieth Hell.  
The ends of Christ's descent are likewise derived from the Scriptures, as the destroying of the devils kingdom, and triumphing over powers and principalities, and making an open show of them, spoiling them by delivering all his Elect, dead, living, and yet unborn, from the right, power, and fear of eternal death; taking into his hands the Keys of Death and Hell, that he might be Lord of all, in Heaven, Earth, and Hell.  
The Creed is not a Collection of Greek or Hebrew phrases unknown to the people, but a short sum of the Christian faith provided for the simpler sort of men to learn by heart. And therefore, as nothing is superfluously repeated, so nothing is obscurely covered in it. And though this Article, He descended to hell, wanted for a time in some Churches, even as some part of Scripture did, yet was it retained by all Christian Writers, as a ground of true religion from the Apostles time; and professed in some Churches very anciently in their Creed, and at last generally received in all places.  
All the Fathers of Christ's Church with one consent teach this as a point of the Christian faith, That Christ after death descended to hell; insomuch that Austen resolutely saith, Who but an Infidel will deny, that Christ was in 
Epistola. 99  hell?  
Where Abraham's bosom was, neither was, nor is agreed amongst the learned: only Austen rightly inferreth out of Christ's words, That being a place of comfort, and far off above Hades (where the rich man was tormented) with a great Gulf settled betwixt those two places, it could be no part, nor 
Epistola. 99  member of hell.  
The rest, which are very many, appear by the several Titles over each Page, or by the Table provided to find the same with more facility.   

THE SURVEY OF CHRIST'S SUFFERINGS FOR MAN'S REDEMPTION.  
IT may seem somewhat strange to thee (Christian Reader) as it doth likewise to me, that one and the self same cause, being twice now debated and discussed in writing on either side; we should at the last be farther from agreeing on the true state of the controversy than we were at the first entering into the matter. If the fault be either in the doubtfulness of my words proposing it; or in the diversnesse of my mind defending it; I refuse no reproach of folly, and inconstancy; but if I keeping close to the points which I first propounded, and calling upon the adverse part, with as great vehemency and importunity as I could, to go directly to the issue, and no way to digress from the things in question; the Impugner trusting more to the covert of his words, than to the soundness of his proofs, will of purpose shun the mark prefixed, and rove at pleasure with doubtful and deceitful terms, to hide the nakedness of his side, and to make the Reader believe he hath matter of moment, when indeed he doth not so much as understand himself, or take any knowledge of the chiefest things which I object or allege; then is he worthy to bear the blame who best deserveth it, and thou (Christian Reader) mayest soon perceive, and assoon pronounce both for thine own ease, and for an end to be had in this strife; (for to thee the Confuter referreth himself, and so do I) whether of us flieth the touchstone of truth, and faileth in the due proof of his doctrine, as near as God shall give thee wisdom to discern light from darkness, and grace to prefer truth before falsehood.  
In the Preface of my Sermons published, I much misliked, and openly charged the over hasty Discourser, that called himself H. I. for 
a Praefat pag. 9 lin. 2.  clean changing the state of the first Question: and to the main division of his Treatise, where he saith, The whole controversy hath in it two points; the first, That Christ suffered for us the wrath of God, etc., I replied in my conclusion, 
b ●… Conclu. pa. 243. l. 5.  It was too much boldness to outface the world in print, that this was the position which I impugned. There were too many witnesses there, for me to deny, or for him to bely the Question, he knew it well enough, but he could not tell how to prove that which I then reproved, and therefore he shrank from it, and dallied with general and doubtful terms. And lest either the patient Reader, or strict Examiner, should be forced far to seek for the chief points by me denied or affirmed in those Sermons; I purposely and plainly numbered and delivered them in such sort, as none could mistake them, but he that would wilfully overleap them. My words thou wilt pardon me to repeat (good Christian Reader) that thereby thou mayest see whether I alter or new frame my first questions and resolutions, as this Prater pretendeth, by his every where complaining of my manifold ambiguities, fallacies, and contr●…rieties; or he rather dissembleth the weakness, and covereth the badness of his cause under certain perplexed and confused phrases, as anon thou shalt hear more at large. These are my words in the foresaid 
c Pag. 2. l. 10.  Preface.  
I laboured (in these my Sermons) to prove these four points: First, That it was no where recorded in holy Scriptures, nor justly to be concluded by the Scriptures, that Christ suffered the true pains of Hell. Secondly, That as the Scriptures describe to us the pains of the Damned and of hell; there are many terrors and torments, which without evident impiety can not be ascribed to the Son of God. Thirdly, That the death and blood of Christ jesus were evidently, frequently, constantly set down in the writings of the Apostles, as the sufficient price of our Redemption, and true mean of our Reconciliation to God, and the very same proposed in the figures resembled in the sacrifices of the Law, and sealed with the Sacraments of the New testament, as the very groundwork of our salvation by Christ; and so have been received, and believed in the Church of God, fourteen hundred years, before any man ever made mention of hell-paines to be suffered in the soul of Christ. Lastly, where the Scriptures are plain and pregnant, That Christ died for our sins, and by his death destroyed him that had power of death, even the devil, and reconciled us when we were strangers and enemies in the body of his flesh through death: besides, That the Holy ghost in these places by express words nameth the bodily death of Christ, as the mean of our Redemption & Reconciliation to God; no considerate Divine might affirm or imagine Christ suffered the death of the soul; for somuch as the death of the soul must exclude Christ from the grace, spirit, and life of God, and leave in him neither faith, hope, nor love, sanctity, nor innocency, which God forbid any Christian man should so much as dream. And if any man to maintain his device, would invent a new hell, and another death of the soul, than either Scriptures or Fathers ever heard, or spoke of, they should keep their inventions to themselves: it sufficed me to believe what I read, and consequently, not to believe what I did not read in the Word of God, which is and aught to be the foundation of our faith. Whether there be any darkness or doubling in my speech, I leave it to thy censure, good Christian Reader. I affirm touching our redemption and reconciliation to God, what the Scriptures affirm, and as near as I could in the selfsame words: I denied the late additions of some men in matters of so great weight, which the Scriptures by their perpetual silence deny, and by their open and evident consequents disprove and impugn. If any man think my Sermons in these points less evident, or pertinent to the purpose than my Preface; let him look to the places where these things are hand●…ed, and judge in God's name, as he findeth cause; remembering that he which withstandeth or neglecteth the truth, withstandeth and neglecteth his own salvation.  
First that no Scripture doth witness or warrant Christ's suffering the true pains of hell in his soul; see either the 
d Sermons. p. 8. lin. 22.  proposing of their opinions that so think; or the examining of their 
e Serm. p. 11. l. 24.  proofs which are brought for that conceit; or the shutting up of that part, which showeth the sum of all aforesaid, which I close in this wise: 
f Serm. pa. 41. l. 14.  Then are there in the sacred Scriptures neither any predictions that Christ should suffer the pains of hell in his soul here on earth; nor causes why he must suffer them; nor signs that he did suffer them; and consequently, what soever is pretended, no proof, that these sufferings must be added to the Cross of Christ, before the work of our salvation can be perfect. Secondly, that such pains of hell, as the Scriptures express and avouch, may not be applied to Christ, without apparent impiety, read what I 
g Serm. pa. 48. l. 34.  write concerning the particulars, and settle thy judgement (gentle Reader) as thou likest best. I desire not to prevail, where I bring not sufficient proof: empty words on either side, are slender means to quiet thy conscience, or settle thy faith, if thou seek to be religious. Thirdly, where the whole course and tenor of the sacred Scriptures do plainly and fully ascribe our Redemption and the remission of our sins to the death and blood of Christ jesus; I dare not delude the words of the Holy ghost, as if they were every where improper or imperfect, but by the four first 
h Serm p. 42. l. 2.  effects of Christ's cross, I make it appear how sufficient our salvation is by the blood of Christ, without any supply of hell pains to be suffered in the soul of Christ. Lastly, since no Christian man may doubt, but we are redeemed and saved by the death of Christ, how 
i Serm. p. 73. li. 13.  far it is from all sense and show of holy Scripture to subject Christ to the death of the soul, and how repugnant to the mouths and minds of the ancient and catholic fathers, I insert a special discourse, and thence observe, that where & whensoever the Holy ghost speaketh of the death of Christ, he meaneth the death of Christ's body suffered on the altar of the Cross, and by no means the death of Christ's soul.  
These things being thus sensibly and plainly set down to the view and reach of all men, were they never so simple, if they were Christians; what reason had you, Sir Refuter in your Treatise to slide from all this, and to delude your Reader by telling him that the whole controversy had in it two points:  

1 That Christ suffered for us the wrath of God:  
2 That after his death on the Cross, he went not into hell in his soul:   
as if I proposed or proved nothing in the first part of my Sermons, but that Christ did not suffer for us the wrath of God? did I, or could I make or move any such question, that in preci●…e words taught the 
k Serm. p. 133. li. 13.  wrath of God against our sins was very great in the Cross of Christ? did I not in plain terms ascribe to Christ 
l Ibidem. li. 30.  a double sense of God's wrath: the first 
m l. 14.  pursuing our surety being innocent and obedient, and even his own and only son with all manner of corporal and temporal scourges unto death, before it could be pacified? the next a 
n l. 34.  serious contemplation of that eternal and intolerable v●…ngeance, which the justice of God had in store for us, by reason of our manifold sins, whose danger and destruction touched him as near, through the tenderness of his love and pity, as if it had been imminent over his own head? But this you will say is not the wrath which you mean. Sir whatsoever your meaning be, which is scant known to yourself, as anon we shall better perceive, the words of your Treatise setting the very question, to which your Reader must look, overlashed with two palpable untruths, unfit for a man of that care and conscience which you would seem to have. For first this could be no question with me, whether Christ suffered for us the wrath of God, who exactly affirmed that God's wrath was great in the Cross of Christ, and admitted in the soul of Christ a sight and sense of God's temporal wrath inflicted on his body, and of God's eternal wrath prepared for our sins. Again, had I moved that question, which I never meant, doth the first part of the controversy contain no more but Whether Christ suffered the wrath of God or no? are your hell pains so soon vanished into smoke? is the death of Christ's soul no question with you? whether the death of Christ's body, and the shedding of his blood be the full price of our Redemption, and cause of our reconciliation to God, is it not worth the ask, nor worth the answering? but you ran from the rest not able to justify that which I disproved; and then, as your manner is, you catch a large and licentious word, and curry that till you confound both yourself and your Reader. For who but you would have proposed such a question, Whether Christ suffered for us the wrath of God, knowing that in the Scriptures themselves, according to which we must frame our speech in matters of faith, there are many degrees and differences of God's wrath, whereof some may be attributed to Christ's sufferings without offence; others can not without plain impiety? and therefore the question which you proposed in your Treatise was but a very stale to make your Reader gaze at, whiles you shifted aside from the matter which I moved.  
[The one (you will say) is a proof of the other; for he which suffereth God's wrath, must needs suffer the pains of hell.] That was and must be the whole strength of your Treatise, unless you will confess that you meant to waste your paper, and mock your Reader with a number of empty and idle fancies. But how faint and feeble that foundation was to bear so great a building, the 
o fo. 243.  conclusion of my Sermons doth sufficiently show. In which I told you, that either your argument must be vicious, if your antecedent were particular; or if to make your argument good, you enlarged your antecedent to be general, your first proposition would be both injurious and blasphemous. For though Christ might and did suffer some parts of God's wrath, as the Scripture useth that word, which is all that your indefinite proposition will imply; yet it would no way follow that he therefore suffered the pains of hell. And if, to amend your consequent, you did affirm that Christ suffered the whole wrath of God, and every part thereof, and so by consequent the pains of hell also; the form of your argument was bettered, but your antecedent, on which the conclusion must depend, was a most false and wicked assertion: for than must Christ have suffered reprobation, desperation, eternal damnation, and what not. Whether this exception were sound and good, I leave to the judgement of the Reader; verily, I have either forgotten the first principles of Logic; or else it was a full and plain subversion of your misshaped reason.  
But you now amend the matter in your last defence, and where your chief position 
Their four restraints of hell pains.  was before indefinite, Christ suffered for us the wratb of God; and so did neither good nor harm to the main question of Christ's suffering the pains of hell; upon better advice, you make it general and say; Christ suffered all God's wrath, but with four restraints to save your opinion from apparent falsity and heresy. For first you add, 
p Defence p. 7. l. 32.  all Gods PROPER wrath; next, if it be a punishment for sin, and no sin; thirdly, as touching the essence and nature thereof; fourthly, so far as was due generally for all mankind to suffer. But Sir Defender, this is not to maintain your first argument, but to confess, and recant your former folly, when you see your position impugned as frivolous and childish, if it be particular; or as erroneous and impious, if it be general; to come in with four fresh limitations in a new pamphlet before you can save your general assertion from sensible impiety and infidelity. Howbeit take your fourth, to return to truth is never too late: Let your general proposition stand fettered & restrained with these four brakes: I must ask you now, not only how you prove this general Collection, Christ suffered for us all God's wrath in the same nature and manner that we should have suffered it, saving your four exceptions; but also, what parts of God's wrath you leave enclosed in your general affirmative, when all these are excluded. Which two demands I wish thee (good Reader) to have in special remembrance against we come to debate the Defenders question, that thou mayest see both what cause leadeth him so to collect, and what truth is in the general, when these particulars are excepted.  
That Christ took our infimities and bare our sorrows is confirmed by the Prophet Esaie, and alleged and expounded as well by Saint Matthew in his Gospel, as by Saint Peter in his first Epistle; in either of which senses we may safely grant the meaning of the Prophet to be general, though his words have no special adscription of all, or some. Saint Matthew declaring how Christ cured with his very word such as were possessed by devils, and healed all that were sick, affirmeth that to be 
q Math. 8. vers. 17.  fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the Prophet, he took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses, meaning he took from us our infirmities and recovered our diseases. And in this sense the general is most true, that Christ took away all our infirmities, and recovered all our sicknesses, were they corporal or spiritual, temporal or eternal, that we should feel the full burden of none of them. Neither did our Saviour only take our sorrows from us, but he also took them upon himself, which Peter observeth when he saith (Christ) 
r 1. Pet 2.  himself bore our sins (that is, the burden and punishment of our sins) in his body on the tree. And in this sense likewise, it is very true that Christ bore the burden of all our sins without exception, but not all, and the self same burdens of our sins which we should have borne. For he that so enlargeth Saint Peter's words, which this Discourser so much laboureth, extendeth them to reprobation, pollution, desperation, damnation, and to all the punishments prepared for the wicked in this life and the next, which is the depth and height of all impiety. I wish the Defender therefore to get him some better ground to erect his frame upon, he will else prove himself an evil Disputer, and a worse believer. Saint Paul hath a third sense gathered out of this place, when he saith, 
s Heb. 4.  We have not an high Priest that can not be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but was in ALL THINGS (tried or) tempted in like sort, ‖ yet ‖ without sin. That Christ was tried and pressed with all our infirmities may hence be collected, but with these two additions like to his brethren, and still WITHOUT SIN. for he must be like (not to the reprobate, much less to the damned, but) to his 
t Heb. 2.  brethren in all things, that is by partaking as well flesh and blood with them, as sufferings and temptations like them, yet always without sin. Then as the godly neither do nor can suffer the true pains of hell in this life, which are the judgements and torments of the damned in another world; no more did Christ suffer them in this life. And where conscience of sin, ignorance of God's counsel, and weakness of faith sometimes draw the godly to doubt of God's favour, and affright them with the horror of hell; from these, and all like inward temptations and motions of sin, Christ must be most free, in whose soul was no lack of grace, nor touch of sin; but the fullness of God's spirit, assured knowledge of God's will, and perfection of all human integrity and innocency, besides the personal union and communion of his Godhead, which kept him both from doubting of God's love towards himself, and from fearing damnation as due to him or possible to be laid on him.  
[Your limitations you will say, serve to exclude those punishments which Christ neither did nor might suffer. For Christ suffered only in this life, and but for a time, and without sin; and yet suffered all, and the very same punishments so limited, as you limit them, which the damned do, and those were the pains of hell.] If you begin (Sir Defender) to limit the words of the holy Ghost to your liking, I think it a safer and surer course to hear and receive S. Peter and S. Paul's limitations annexed to their own words, and other defence against all your attempts I desire none. Christ himself (saith Peter) bore our sins in his body on the tree. here see we not only the person who, even the son of God; and the place where, and time when; on the tree, not after; but also the part in which he bore the punishment of all our sins, to wit, in his body. He must (saith Paul) be like his brethren in all things; that is, infirmities, temptations, and sufferings, but still without sin. What is this to the pains of hell, which are the destruction of body and soul excluded after this life from the joy and bliss of God's kingdom, and tormented among devils with everlasting fire?  
[That (you think) is my gross imagination of hell, the fire there is a toyish fable; the greatest pain in hell is the sense of God's fiery wrath, which he inflicteth with his immediate hand upon the soul liable to sin without any means or instruments; the substance whereof because Christ suffered (as you say) for a time in this life, though not in hell nor for ever, he suffered the very same pains of hell as touching the essence and nature thereof, which the damned do; though in circumstances of time and place his sufferings somewhat differed from theirs.] Your quintessencing and new framing of another hell, which the Scriptures never speak of; your quenching hellfire with a fancy; your appointing God to be the tormentor in hell with his immediate hand; your nice dividing between the substance and circumstance of Gods eternal judgements; your placing the substance thereof in the apprehension of the soul, and that as well in this life as in the next, with a number of like audacious and desperate devices to uphold the name or the shade of hell-paines in the sufferings of Christ, we shall anon discuss, when we come to your opening of the question; in the mean while the Reader must mark, The question is not whether Christ bore the burden of all our sins on the tree, or whether he were touched and tempted in all things like to his brethren, yet still without sin, but whether it can be proved by the Scriptures that Christ must bear all and the self same burdens of our sins which we should have borne in this life, and the next, and which the damned do and shall bear. Your distinction of the substance and circumstance of Gods endless and merciless vengeance of sin in hell, we shall quickly let the Reader see how vainly you presume it without all warrant of holy Scripture, and how falsely you apply it to the person of Christ against the manifest Scripture, if first we observe how handsomely you set down the doctrine which I defend in the next words to your own hieroglyphical question, of purpose that if you cannot by truth ouerbeare it, you may at least by falsehood disgrace it.  
His 
u Defence. p. 7.  contrary [opinion (say you) we conceive thus, that Christ suffered for our sins nothing else, but simply and merely a bodily death altogether like as the godly do often suffer at the hands of persecutors, saving only that God accepted the death of his son, as a ransom for sin, but the death of his servants he doth not.] Had you not seen and read my sermons printed before you made this late defence, you might have excused yourself (Sir defender) by forgetting or mistaking my words; but after so often and open repeating them in Print, what cause can be imagined why you should thus apparently pervert my words, and purposely forsake the points which I proposed, save only that finding the foil, and doubting a fall, you would gladly slip your neck out of the collar; and seeing no better means, you think it more sk●…ll to stand wrangling about the Question, then to be taken tardy with saying just nothing in a matter of the greatest weight, and chiefest regard in Christian religion. My words are every where plain enough as well in delivering as debating the question, that Christ suffered no death save on●…ly the death of the body, by the verdict of holy Scripture; and therefore whatsoever the Scripture speaketh of Christ's death, it is intended and referred to the death of Christ's body on the Cross, and by no means to the death of his soul. The words of my preface are these: 
x Pr●…. p. 3. l. 8.  Where the Scriptures are plain and pregnant, that Christ died for our sins, and by his death destroyed him that had power over death, even the Devil, and reconciled us when we were strangers, and enemies in the body of his flesh: besides, that the holy Ghost in these places by express words nameth the bodily death of Christ, as the mean of our redemption and reconciliation to God: no considerate Divine may affirm or imagine Christ suffered the death of the soul. When I come in my Sermons to handle that point I thus begin it. 
y Serm p. 73. l. 13.  That Christ did or could suffer the death of the soul, is a position far from the words, but farther from the grounds of sacred Scriptures. When I show the Fathers do join in the same resolution with the Scriptures, I say, 
z Serm. p. 78. l. 32.  Rightly therefore do the Ancient Fat●…ers teach, that Christ dying for our sins suffered ONLY THE DEATH OF THE BODY, BUT NOT OF THE SOVL●…. Concluding their testimonies I capitulate in this wise; 
a Serm. p. 83. l. 28.  I hope to all men learned or well advised it will seem no jesuitical frenzy, but rather Christian and Catholic doctrine, that the Son of God dying for our sins suffered NOT THE DEATH OF THE SOUL, BUT ONLY OF THE BODY. If you understand not these words (Sir Defender) your Reader will judge you fitter to learn your abc, then to dispute questions in Divinity; if you do conceive them, and will pervert them, let him likewise pronounce whether it be sincerity or impudency in you, thus to outface the matter against my plain speech, and to make Proclamation that I defend Christ suffe●…ed nothing else for our sins but simply and merely a bodily death altogether like as the godly often do at the hands of persecutors. Had you said, I maintain Christ suffered no death, but only a bodily death, I would have asked you by what Scriptures you or all your adherents can disprove it; but charging me as you do with this opinion, that Christ suffered nothing else but simply and merely a bodily death altogether like the godly; I must tell you this is one of your truths, which many men will call a malicious leasing, since my words are publicly extant to the contrary. My first resolution was; Christ 
b Serm. p. 4. l. 4.  saw before hand that going to his Cross he should taste all kinds of calamities, and so it came to pass. For between his last Supper and his death, he was betrayed of judas, abjured of Peter, forsaken of all his followers; he was wrongfully imprisoned, falsely accused, unjustly condemned, he was buffe●…ed, whipped, scorned, reviled; he endured cold, nakedness, thirst, wounding, hanging, shame, reproach, and all sorts of deadly pains; besides heaviness of hart and agony of mind, which oppressed him in the Garden. All this I affirm Christ suffered before his death, and therefore all this besides his mere bodily death; to which I added 
c Serm. p. 87. l. 23.  all those afflictions and passions of the Soul, which naturally and necessarily follow pain and accompany death. You perchance would annex the pains of hell, and the death of the Soul, but those are the very points in question which I then did, and yet do utterly exclude from the sufferings of Christ.  
Where you say, I hold, Christ's death was altogether like as the godly do suffer at the hands of Persecutors, I know not what you mean by your altogether; in some things his death was like theirs, in many things unlike. A wrongful and painful death of the body he suffered at the hands of the jews, as the godly do often at the hands of their persecutors; and a full persuasion he always had of Gods exceeding and assured love and favour towards him, in the midst of all his anguishes, as the godly have in theirs, though in far less perfection than his was; but as touching the cause, the manner, the force of his death, I make it altogether unlike theirs. They inherit both sin, and death, from their Parents, and so of necessity must die, and putrify in the grave; he did inherit neither, but being free from both, yielded himself to die, that he might purge and abolish sin. Death wresteth our souls from our bodies, be we never so patient, whiles sense doth last; he breathed out his soul powerfully, and willingly, which none could take from him, except he would lay it down of his own accord. Our bodies do rot in the grave, and lie in corruption, which is the dominion of death, till the time, they shall be restored; his body could not be dissolved to ashes, because neither part of his human nature might perish, after it was once united to his Divine; but lay in the grave without corruption resisting death, and rose with speed in glory overthrowing death, first in himself, and after in all his members at their appointed time. So that death is now a necessary consequent to our sinful nature, his voluntary death was the satisfaction for our sins, and pacification of God's wrath, restoring us again to God's favour, which through sin we had lost. Thus have you both swerved very far Sir Desender from your own question, which yourself put in your first Treatise though wide from our purpose, and wholly misreported the doctrine which I formerly avouched by Scriptures, and Fathers; giving small hope you will deal more sincerely in the rest, that enter so corruptly at the first, but you will now open the whole state of the Question, which we are content to hear.  
[The opening of the whole state of the Question. For the better understanding whereof 
●… Defenc. p. 8.  we must note these principal things.] What you cal●… the opening of the Question, I may better call the darkening and obscuring of the Question with many trifling and tedious observations, with many new found, far fet, and ill applied phrases, with many bold and false assertions powered out of your own brains, without any show or so much as pretence of holy Scripture. And if you may be suffered thus to reign and reveal in matters of Religion at your pleasure; it is an easy way for you to conclude any thing without any great pains or proofs. For you bring us a world of words warranted by no man's authority, but by your own, and out of them you frame false positions fit for your fancy, and utter them as undoubted principles of Christian Religion; which indeed have in them neither truth, nor sense, when they come to be examined. As is your matter, so is your method, tumbling and tossing too and fro, like the unsettledness of your head, and spending twenty pages in mere confusion and contradiction, for which cause I must be driven to recall your conceits to some special heads, lest in pursuing your steps I loose both myself and the Reader.  
The things which you disorderly shuffle, and I shall be forced more largely to handle, concern either the offender, which is man, or the offence, which is sin, or the judge, which is God; or the punishment which is death, or the ransommer and redeemer, which is Christ. I mean to meddle with no more in any of these, but what directly pertaineth to this question, and serveth aptly to exclude your conceits, and truly to establish the collections which I make. First then, ¹ touching MAN who consisteth of body and soul, the doubt will be whether the whole man sinned in Adam, that the whole might suffer in Christ; or whether the soul only sinned, that the soul of Christ only must suffer. Secondly in ² SIN must be remembered how it cometh, and what it bringeth. Sin is either COMMITTED, as by Adam, or INHERITED, as by us all; or ASSUMED, as by Christ, who took upon him the punishment of our sins though neither committed nor inherited by him. And of itself sin breedeth in the offendor, where it is not remitted, cleansed, and removed by the blood of Christ; POLLUTION of the whole man, STING of conscience, and REVENGE of God's wrath in this life and the next. Thirdly, for the ³ JUDGE which is God, we must learn, from what ground, within him the punishments of his elect in this life do proceed, whether from his justice, or from his love, or from both mixed together, by whom he executeth his justice in earth and in hell, whether by his immediate hand, or by inferior ministers and means, with what measure he proportioneth it, as well to the faithful in this life, as to the faithless, till the number of their sins be full; and lastly, to what purpose he directeth it, either to revenge sin, as in the wicked and damned; or to repress sin as in the godly, or to declare his justice, as in Infants baptised; or to perfect his graces, as in the best of his Saints here on earth; or to purge and abolish sin, and to prove obedience as in the person of Christ jesus. Fourthly, ⁴ DEATH which is the wages of sin, and includeth all the punishments provided here, and elsewhere for sinners, is either corporal parting the soul from the body; or spiritual separating the soul from the life, and grace of God; or eternal, excluding both body and soul, from the joy, and bliss of God's heavenly kingdom, and wrapping them both in the darkness, fire, and horror of hell for ever. That all the pains and griefs of this life, are the seeds of death, and ways to death, and so come under the name of death, which driveth the soul from the body, is now presumed, and shall be proved in place convenient. Fiftly, concerning the ⁵ REDEEMER, which is Christ; to whose sufferings all that is aforesaid must in some sort be referred, the question is, in what part, and how far he suffered, feared, or apprehended the wrath of God against our sins: but without question we must know and believe that his person was naturally and infinitely beloved of God, (all the elect being embraced and accepted only for him, and in him) and that the dignity of his person and depth of his favour with God, (when he submitted himself to show his obedience, and maintain God's justice, by the shame and sharpness of the Cross, received in his humane nature) was the right ground, and true cause of our Redemption and Reconciliation to God; whose patience unto death was a greater and acceptabler sacrifice to God for sin, than all the world; yea then all earthly and heavenly creatures were worth. And to increase or strengthen this voluntary sacrifice for sin, the pains of hell were no way needful since Christ was to show his obedience in this life only, and after death to rise and reign with glory, and by that which he suffered on the Cross, he was to learn the obedience of a Son, and not the vengeance due to devils. In all these issues, if I would take the Discoursers trade, to affirm what I list, without any further proof, I could end the whole cause in as few words as I have expressed it; but since that will neither content the Reader, nor conclude the gaine-sayer, I must have leave in larger manner as occasion serveth, both to repel the Defenders bold presumptions, and to confirm those things which I take to be safer Resolutions in Christian Religion.  
The principal things which you would have noted (Sir Discourser) are either defective in their divisions, or coincident in their parts, or repugnant to your purpose. 
d Defence p. 8. l. 6.  All suffering of pains in man (you say) is from God, either properly from his justice, or from his holy love; either from himself alone, or also from his instruments and inferior means: and that for sin either inherent, or imputed; either as Correction or as punishment; either immediately or mediately as anon we shall further see. Not one of these four partitions, which you make the fortress of your cause, is sound and sufficient; and the fifth is the selfsame with the second, it only varieth in words. In these two divisions (all suffering of pains in man is from God's justice, or from his holy love; either as correction or as punishment) you rove obscurely, but absurdly, at the ground, the measure, the purpose of all pains and punishments, as they come from God on all men, be they wicked or godly, Christ himself not excepted; either in this world, or the next. For the GROUND of them, you say they proceed from God's justice properly, or from his holy love. The MEASURE and PURPOSE of them you confound in saying either as correction, or as punishment, which you should distinguish.  
From God's justice properly on men infected with sin cometh nothing but punishment, that is their due, which the just judge awardeth them. From God's love, of itself cometh nothing but grace and bliss; for which cause he is the fountain of Grace, and father of Mercy to such as he loveth. In the reprobate God hateth their sins, and so their persons, being the committers or inheritors of sin still abiding. In the elect, God's holiness disliketh their sins as much as the others; but their persons he loveth and favoureth for Christ his son, in whom they are chosen. And though the full and due punishment of their sin, which is spiritual and eternal death, be translated from them, and abolished in Christ; yet when men redeemed and freed from the heavy burden of their sins do not earnestly repent them, or eftsoons frequent them, God for the conservation of his holinesle, and demonstration of his righteous judgement to all the world, doth sooner and sharper visit and punish with the corporal and temporal scourges of this life his own children, neglecting or resuming their sins, than his enemies; whom with longer patience he suffereth to heap up wrath against the day of wrath. A 
e james 2. ver. 13.  judgement merciless therefore, as S. james calleth it, is and shall be to the wicked, whereas in the godly mercy rejoiceth against judgement, but not without justice. For 
f 1. Pet. 4.  judgement (which in God can never be without justice, since he is the righteous judge of the world) must begin at the house of God, 
g 1. Cor. 11.  and when we are judged, we are chastened, (with a merciful judgement) that we should not be condemned with the world. And though in the afflictions of the godly, there be many things added of favour; as the measure, which is tolerable, not overwhelming their patience; the purpose which is holy, to recall them from the delight and custom of sin, and to perfect the graces of God in them; the comfort which is great, that God loveth their persons, when he pursueth their sins; the promise which is sure, that if they suffer with Christ, they shall reign with Christ, and such like; yet the smart of God's rod, and sharpness of his whip, wherewith he awaketh the negligent, and tameth the unruly, proceed from his just judgement, and commend his holiness which hateth all sin in whomsoever; and declare his justice to the whole world, that he winketh not either at the waywardness, or at the carelessness of his own children. The places in Scripture witnessing thus much are infinite, and easy for every child to observe; and therefore one shall suffice for all. To his Church God saith by the mouth of jeremy, 
h jerem. 30.  Though I utterly destroy all the Nations, where I have scattered thee, yet will I not utterly destroy thee; but I will correct thee by judgement, and not utterly cut thee off. I have stricken thee with the wound of an enemy, and with a cruel chastisement for the multitude of thine iniquities, thy sins were increased. Thy sorrow is incurable for the number of thine offences, ‖ because ‖ thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee: ‖ But ‖ I will restore health to thee, and heal thee of thy wounds.  

i deafen. p. 10. l. 29.  [The godly in this world do suffer pains for their sins; but these whatsoever they be, (yea though death itself) are improperly called punishments, they are chastisements of sin.] This new Grammar doth best become your new doctrine. All pains for sins whatsoever, suffered by any of the elect in this life, are chastisements, but in no wise you may endure to have them called punishments, except very improperly. What is a chastisement properly, but a punishment moderated with love and mercy? And since you be so precise that no pain suffered by any of God's children may properly be called a punishment; whence I pray you is the word punishment derived? not from the Latin word punire to punish? and punio from Poena, which our English tongue resembling the Latin, calleth pain? so that pain and punishment are words of one derivation, and so properly of one signification, and by force of the words properly, all pain for sin is punishment for sin. And therefore in all men's judgements saving yours, chastisement is a punishment tempered with favour, and not a pain excluding all punishment as you make it in your dissolute division. Read either the text, or notes of the Genevian Translation of the Bible, which you would seem so much to follow; or whose translation you will, and see whether they do not contradict your childish conceit, that the Chastisement of God's children is no punishment. 
k Psal. 106.  Moses was punished for their sakes; and again, God 
l Lament. 3.  doth not punish with the hart; & the Wiseman speaking unto God, 
m Sapient. 12.  with how great circumspection (saith he) will't thou punish thine own children. And upon those words of jeremy, 
n jerem. 10.  O Lord correct me, but with judgement, not in thine anger; they of Geneva note, 
o Ibid. lit. q.  He only prayeth that God would PUNISH THEM with mercy, which Esay calleth in measure ca 27. for here by judgement is meant, not only the PUNISHMENT, but also the MERCIFUL MODERATION of the same. So that Chastisement noteth the measure of the punishment, which God favourably inflicteth on his children, not according to their sins, nor exceeding their strength. 
p Psal. 103.  He hath not dealt with us (saith David) after our sins, nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. 
q 1. Cor. 10.  There hath no tentation taken you (saith Paul) but such as belongeth to men; and God is faithful which will not suffer you to be tempted, above that you be able, but will give the issue with the tentation, that you may be able to bear it. Yea, to his enemies God mitigateth the heaviness of his hand at first, and giveth them time and place to amend before he destroyeth them. 
r Revelat. 2.  I gave her space to repent (saith Christ) but she repented not; and therefore when the measure of their sins waxeth full, God repaieth them the fullness of vengeance, which is pwishment proportioned to their sins; and this is the due and proper punishments of those that are wilful, and do not repent their wickedness.  

s Defenc. p. 10. l. 29.  [The pains of the godly are partly remembrances to cause repentance, partly chastisements to humble us and mortify sin in us; but these whatsoever they be (yea though death itself) are improperly called punishments. Here you touch after your loose manner the purpose of God in afflicting his servants, which you say is to reform them, but in no wise to punish them. If God had none other meaning in afflicting the faithful, but to reform their sins, nor none other means to do that, but by pains, your speech had some truth; but because God hath divers purposes in so doing, and divers ways without pains to amend his children, this that here you bring, as the rest elsewhere, is a blind groping besides the truth, and a bold presuming that you are in the truth. God many times loadeth the best and chiefest of his Saints with oftener and greater troubles, than he doth the meaner sort; not because their sins are more than others, or they need more amendment than the rest; but to TRY their faith, as in 
t Heb. 11.  Abraham, and 
u job. 1.  job; or to show the 
x 2. Cor. 12.  perfection of his grace, as in Paul; or to prepare them to glory, as in 
y Luk. 16.  Lazarus; or to 
z Rom. 8.  conform them to Christ, whose steps they must follow; and often to declare his justice, as he did in striking David's child, when the sin was both repent and pardoned in the Father. In the 
a 2. Sam 12.  sickness and death of which child, as of all other infants regenerate by Baptism, there neither was, nor can be any use of Repentance, humiliation, or mortification for themselves; and consequently by your own division, since to them it can be NO CORRECTION, it must in them be a punishment of sin, not actually committed by them, but naturally derived to them by the guilt and corruption of their Parents. Yea, the general pain laid on Adam and all mankind, as dissolution by death, privation of original light and grace, corruption of sin, infection of soul, which declare us all to be the children of wrath by nature; were they corrections or punishments of Adam's sin, since after death there is no repentance nor amendment of life, and the rest are neither bars to sin, nor retraits from sin, but either parts, effects, or causes of sin? which stick so fast, and bear such rule in many even of the elect, that no gentle or fatherly admonitions, reprehensions, or comminations, will prevail with them, but they must be overruled and wearied with sharp and piercing scourges, before they will see or forsake the loathsomeness of their sin. Wherein though it be a great favour of God, rather to pursue them with all temporal plagues unto their conversion, then to let them run headlong to everlasting perdition; yet the means which he useth are mixed with justice and mercy, and are rightly believed to be punishments fully deserved by their sins, though not fully proportioned to their sins, the just and full wages whereof in sinful men can be none other but death corporal, spiritual, and eternal. So that your division, all pain from God is either correction, or punishment; and your position no pain in the godly is punishment, are not only frivolous and false, but repugnant each to the other: for so much as pain cometh from God for probation of faith, perfection of grace, assurance of salvation, encouraging of others by example, as well as for correction; and death and correction in Infants, where correction hath no place, must by your own partition be a punishment of sin inflicted on the first Man and all his posterity. The which because we all inherit from our Parents, and had it in us at our birth, when there was no use of correction for us, it was then in us all, and so still remaineth a punishment of our first Parent's sin; though by the grace, and price of Christ's death, we are and shall be freed from it.  
But come to your purpose, and apply this to Christ, for thither you bend and 
Christ's bodily death, part of the punishment of our sins.  thereat you shoot; is your division true in the sufferings of Christ? then since by your own assertion 
b Defenc. pa. 11. l. 12.  chastisements and remembrances, (which are the branches that you make of Correction) belonged nothing at all to Christ, and indeed there could be no cause to correct any sinful corruption or affection in him, where no sin was; it is a plain confession that the bodily death and pains which Christ suffered on the Cross, were the punishment of our sins in his body; and consequently a part of that curse which was imposed on the first man's sin; which you so stiffly denied in your Treatise, where you said; 
c Treatise. pa. 45. l. 1.  Therefore Christ's dying simply as the godly die (that is a bodily death) may in no sort be called a curse or cursed. And if to shift of this contradiction, and confession of the truth of my answer to the place of S. Paul, Christ was made a curse for us, you refer these words (as the godly do) not to the same kind of death which is bodily in both, but to the same cause of death, which was different, in Christ and his members; Remember good Sir, the words are not mine, but your own; I put many differences betwixt the death of Christ, and his Saints; as namely the cause, the manner, and force of his death, which I have touched 
d Supra pa. 7.  before; but the kind of death which was bodily, and not Ghostly, is all one in Christ and the godly. For Christ died not the death of the Soul, no more do the godly, when they depart this life, albeit they may oftentimes whiles here they live, draw near to the death of the Soul by sinning, which Christ could not. And if you begin now to be better advised, I am not displeased with it; it shall suffice that mine answer did, and doth stand true, that Christ in suffering bodily pains and death for us, suffered a part of the same punishment and curse which was laid on all mankind for the sin of Adam.  

e deafen. pa. 9 l. 34.  [We must note especially that to suffer (as the godly do) chastisements and corrections, is not to suffer or feel God's wrath, nor the punishment of sin: except it be in a very improper speech. To suffer the true punishment, satisfaction, proper payment and wages of sin, only that is to suffer properly and truly the wrath of God: now then seeing the pains which Christ for us did feel, were indeed properly the punishment, and payment and vengeance for sin, such as the godly do in no wise suffer, Christ only having wholly suffered that for us all: Therefore indeed his sufferings proceeded from God's proper wrath, and were the true effects of Gods mere justice, bend to take recompense on him for our offences.] Thou hast in these words (Christian Reader) the bulwark of this man's cause, concluding that Christ suffered the MERE JUSTICE, PROPER WRATH, and very CURSE of God for sin. The frame of his reason, if I understand it, (as who understandeth his mysteries but himself?) is this. All pain in man is from God, either as correction of sin or as punishment for sin. In Christ there was no (no cause and so no need of ‖) correction: his sufferings therefore were the punishments of sin. They were punishments for sin; Ergo, they were the true punishment, proper payment, wages and vengeance of sin, which proceeded from God's proper wrath, and were the true effects of Gods m●…ere justice, bend to take recompense on him for our offences. His terms of TRUE, PROPER, and MERE, joined to the PUNISHMENT, WRATH and JUSTICE of God, are not warranted by any Scripture, much less referred to the sufferings of Christ, nor so much as proved by any testimony, defined with any certainty, directed by any part, or expounded by any means; but only projected as Riddles, and laberinthes to weary the wise, to angle the simple, and to refuge himself, when he shall be pressed with the falsity and impiety of his assertions. Lest therefore we wrangle about words in vain, which is his desire and devise, that he may seem to say somewhat, and carry the Reader into a forest of strange and unknown phrases, where he shall hardly discern what either side saith; I th●…nke it needful first to declare what the Scriptures mean by the wages of sin and wrath of God, and so to try in what sense, and with what truth his terms may be added to them, and applied to the sufferings of Christ.  

f Rom. 6.  [The wages of sin is death, saith S. Paul. God himself foretold Adam it should be so. Whensoever thou catest (of the forbidden tree) thou shalt 
g Genes 2.  die the death. Then how many kinds of death, are by God threatened and inflicted on sinners; so many parts must the wages of sin contain. Now those are three, the death of the Soul in this life, which I call spiritual; the death of the body leaving this life, which I call corporal; and the death of both in the next world, which I call eternal. For as man had two parts by which he did live, Soul and body; and two places wherein he might live if he obeyed God, earth for a time, and heaven for ever; so disobedience deprived either part of man in either place, of the life which he should have enjoyed, and subjecteth him to the fears, griefs, and pains of death, both here, and in hell for ever.  
The life of the body is the union of the Soul with the body; the effects whereof are sense, and motion, to discern, obtain, and perform that which is needful or healthful for the body. And as the presence of the Soul bringeth life to the body, so the departing of the Soul taketh life from the body, and leaveth it dead, that is, void of all action, motion and sense, as to every man's eyes is apparent in dead bodies. The Soul therefore in the Scriptures is usually taken for the life of the body, which proceedeth from the Soul, and is maintained by the Soul; And these phrases to 
h Math. 2. Rom. 11.  seek a man's Soul, tolay 
i joh. 13. 1. joh. 3.  down his own Soul, or to give it for another, to power out his Soul unto death, with such like, do properly express the death of the body, quickened by the Soul, because men loose or leave this life, when they lose or leave their Souls. And where God threatened death to Adam, even the very same day in which he should transgress, we must not think that God either delayed the punishment longer, or extended it farther, than his words at first imported. When therefore the very same day that they sinned, God said to the woman, 
k Genes. 3.  increasing I will increase thy sorrow, and to the man, In sorrow shalt thou eat all the days of thy life, we must acknowledge, that from that time forward, death began to take hold, and work on both their bodies, though not by present separation of the Soul from the body, (for Adam lived after that 930. years) yet by mortality, mutability, misery, and namely by sorrow and pain as the instruments and agents of death. 
l 2. Cor. 7.  Worldly sorrow causeth death, as Paul witnesseth; and a 
m Prou●…rb. 17.  broken hart (saith Solomon) drieth the bones; yea, 
n Eccles. 30.  sorrow hath slain maxy. And were it not so written, yet experience and nature teacheth us, that grief of mind, and pain of body, where they continue or increase, consume the flesh and hasten death; so that when God. the same day that they sinned, subjecteth them to sorrow and pain, which before they felt not. He made way for death, that it might continually work in them, and ●…ken them till they returned to dust. 
o De ci●…itate Dei. li. 13. cap. 10.  The ti●…e of this life (saith Aust●…n) is nothing els●… but a race to death, and truly after a m●…n begi●…th to be in this b●…dy, he is in death.  
The life of the soul is not her understanding and will, which she can never lose, no not in hell; but only the truth and gra●…e of God, by whose spirit she receiveth the light of faith to direct her, and the strength of love, to stir and i●…cite her in t●…is life to behold, desire, and embrace the holiness and goodness of God's blessed will and promise, for her everlasting happiness; which with patience and comfort of the Holy ghost, she expecteth till God's appointed time do come. The lack or loss of this inward sense, and motion of God's spirit, which only can quicken the soul, is the death of the soul, deprived of her life, which is God, and left to herself in blindness and hardness of heart, and given over unto a reproba●…e mind, and vile affections, to work wickedness even with greediness; till contempt of God's will, and desperation of his mercy do fearfully end her miserable time in this life, and violently draw her from hence to see, and suffer the terrible judgements of God provided for sin in another world.  
Life everlasting, is the perfect and perpetual vision and fruition of God's glorious presence in the heavens, where unspeakable light, and honour, joy, and bli●…e, shall compass, and replenish body and soul in the fellowship of Christ, and his elect angels for ever. The exclusion and rejection of the wicked from this heavenly f●…licity, together with the shame and confusion of sin wounding and stinging the conscience without ease or rest; and the dreadful horror of hell, the place of darkness and devils, having in it continual flames of intolerable and unquenchable fire eternally tormenting the souls and bodies of the damned; the Scriptures call the s●…cond death, because it is never inflicted but after the first death; and likewise wrath to come, for that the state of this present life is not capable of th●…se extreme torments, which are reserved for another world. And lest I should seem to make degrees and parts of eternal death out of mine own head; let us briefly view, whether the word of God do not witness the same. 
p Luc. 13.  There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (saith Christ) when you shall see Abraham, Isaac, and jacob, and a●… the Prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out at doors. 
q Daniel 12.  Many of those that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake (saith Daniel) to perpetual shame and reproach; 
r Esa. 66.  Their worm shall never die, saith Esay. The Lord that willed his good and faithful servants to enter into their master's joy, when he came to the slothful and unprofitable servant, commanded to be 
s Matth. 25.  taken from him even that he had, and to cast him into utter darkness. The judge himself forwarneth he will give this sentence on the wicked in the last day, 
t Ibidem.  Depart from ●…e, ye cursed, into everlasting ●…ire, prepared for the devil and his angels. They shall be 
u revel. 14.  tormented in fire and brimstone (saith john) and the smoke of their torments shall asc●…nd evermore, and they shall have no rest night nor day.  
This is that 
x 2. Thess. 1.  everlasting perdition and 
y Jude ver. 7.  vengeance of eternal fire, which the wicked shall suffer in hell, and this is the full and complete punishment and wages of sin, repaying the reprobate according to their deserts, when their sins come once to that ripeness and fullness, that they may no longer be endured by God's justice; the two former kinds of deaths in this world being such as are either despised, or desired, by the wicked. For nothing is more acceptable to them, than without all fear, or care of God, to follow their wills, and pursue their lusts; which i●… the death of the soul; and the death of the body which they can not decline, they labour to neglect; and though they murmu●… at God for it, as if man had been framed at first mortal, yet find they no great hurt in it, because they know not the sequel of it; and perceive it to be common to good and bad, and to leave no sense of pain behind it. And indeed the outward punishments of this life are by God's bounty, and patience so tempered, not only with comfort to the godly, but with moderation to the wicked, that they warn all men to fear and fly the wrath to come, and give time and place for amendment. 
z Sapien. 12.  The old inhabitants of the holy land, thou (Lord) didst h●…te (saith the Wiseman) for they committed abominable works, as sorceries, and wicked sacrifices; nevertheless thou sparedst them also, as men, and didst send the forerunners of thine host, even hornets to root them out; not that thou couldst not destroy them with one rough word, but in punishing them by little and little, thou gavest them space to repent. The Apostle saith the same, 
a Rom. 2.  Despisest thou the riches of God's bounty, and patience, and long suffering, not knowing that the bounty of God leadeth thee to repentance? but thou after thine hardness, and heart that can not repent, heapest unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath, and of the declaration of the just judgement of God, who will reward every man according to his works.  
The wrath of God is also diversly taken in the Scriptures; sometimes for the inward dislike, and hatred that God in his holiness hath of all iniquity; sometimes for his judgements threatened, or executed against sin, whether they be tempered with love or patience, to work or expect repentance, as in his own, and in this life; or proportioned to the deserts of wicked and impenitent sinners, for substraction of grace, as to the reprobate in this world, or infliction of vengeance, as to the danmed in hell. Such is the holiness of God, that he can love no wickedness, but by nature and of necessity doth and must hate all unrighteousness in whomsoever. 
b Psal. 5.  Thou art not a God, that loveth wickedness (saith David) neither shall evil dwell with thee. 
c 2. Cor. 6.  What fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? or what communion hath light and darkness; What favour then and allowance should iniquity find with God, that is the very fountain and flaming fire of all holiness? To declare Gods perfect hatred against all sin as well of the faithful as faithless, the Scripture witnesseth not only that his soul abhorreth the outrages of the wicked, which are an abomination unto him, but also that he is displeased and grieved with the sins even of his elect. 
d Proverb. 6.  These things the Lord hateth (saith Solomon) yea his soul abhorreth them. 
e Zacharie 8.  All these are the things that I hate saith the Lord, by the Prophet Zacharie. 
f Psal. 5.  The foolish shall not stand in thy sight, thou hatest all them that work i●…iquitie, saith David to God. The Lord will abhor the cruel and deceitful man. Yea God is displeased and grieved with his own, when they sin against him. 
g Deuter. 32.  The Lord saw it (saith Moses) and was stirred to anger, with the provocation of his sons and his daughters. When David had slain Vriah, and taken home his wife; the 
h 2. Sam. 11.  thing displeased the eyes of the Lord, saith the Scripture. Likewise when he numbered the people, 
i 1. Paral. 21.  God was displeased with that deed. Esay remembering the mercies of the Lord towards the house of Israel, saith; 
k Esa. 63.  he was their Saviour in all their troubles, he was troubled, and the angel of his presence saned them: but they rebelled and grieved the spirit of his holiness. The Apostle confirmeth the same: 
l Ephes. 4.  Grieve not the Holy spirit, by whom ye are sealed unto the day of Redemption. Then as the love of all righteousness is a natural and necessary consequent to God's holiness; so the dislike and hatred of all sin is rightly and properly appertinent to his divine purity; neither must the godly take it for an improper kind of speech, but fully believe and plainly confess, that God is truly and greatly displeased with their sins, lest in their hearts they bring him within compass of liking or allowing their uncleanness: and when they repent, they must not only tremble at the provoking of so righteous and fearful a judge, but chiefly sorrow for the displeasing and offending the holiness of so gracious and loving a father. This dislike and detestation of disobedience even in his own children, which God of his holiness hath, the Scripture often expresseth by the name of Anger, though no punishment follow. 
m Exod. 4. ver. 14.  The Lord was very angry with Moses (saith the Scripture) when he so long refused to go at God's appointment to deliver the children of Israel out of Egypt. God was likewise 
n Numb. 12. vers. 9  very angry with Aaron and Miriam his sister, for speaking against Moses, though Aaron was not punished for it, and Miriam quickly healed of her leprosy. So God himself professed to Eliphaz the Temanite, saying; 
o job. 42. vers. 7.  My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends, though he willed them to sacrifice for their offence, and promised to accept jobs prayer for them. The same may often be observed in other places of the Scriptures.  
The wrath of God is likewise taken for the threats, whereby God denounceth what he will inflict on the wickedness of men; or for the sharp reproof, which he useth against sin committed. 
p Psal. 95.  I swore in my wrath, they shall not enter into my rest, saith God of the disobedient Israelites in the wilderness. 
q Ezech. 38.  In mi●…e indignation, ●…d in the fire of my wrath have I spoken it (saith God by Ezechiel) surely at that time there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel. So David, 
r Psal. 2.  Then shall ‖ God ‖ speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his sore displeasure. Wherefore David prayeth for himself, 
s Psal. 6.  O Lord reprove me not in thine anger; knowing that God's rebukes and threats ought to be as much regarded and feared of the faithful, as his plagues.  
Lastly, all the judgements of God, awaking the negligent, scourging the disobedient, obdurating the impenitent in this life, or renenging the Reprobate, here and in hell, are in the Scriptures called the wrath of God; of which speech there can be no question, because the word of God giveth plain & plentiful evidence in every of those parts: only the Discourser avoucheth, that the two first, are no degrees nor effects of Gods proper wrath; though the Scripture call them wrath, but are so termed by a very improper speech. These are his words: 
t deafen. pa. 9 l. 35.  To suffer chastisements and corrections as the godly do, is not to suffer, or feel God's wrath, except it be in a very improper speech. And this is one of the main points, on which he putteth theissue of the question. 
u deafen. p. 13. l. 2.  I affirm (saith he) Christ suffered God's proper wrath and vengeance: You think, all afflictions whatsoever, small or great, and towards whomsoever, are the effects of God's wrath: but that is not so, except in a most improper speech. To the godly their afflictions both small and great, are Gods fatherly and gracious chastisements, and no effects of his properwrath.  
Thou must not forget (Christian Reader) from what beginning we come to this issue. This Rover taking upon him to prove, that Christ suffered the true pains of hell, and of the damned, made this his foundation, 
x Treatis. pa. 33.  That Christ suffered the wrath of God for us; which he affirmed to be equal to hell itself, and all the torments thereof. Mine answer shortly was, I did not see what this proposition, Christ suffered for us the wrath of God, if it were granted, could help his cause, or hinder mine. 
y Conclus. pa. 243. l. 27.  For the wrath of God extended to all pains and punishments, aswell corporal as spiritual, in this life and the next, were they temporal or eternal. So that no pain or punishment, small or great, could befall the body or soul of Christ, but it must needs proceed from the wrath of God. To this he now replieth, To 
z deafen. p. 9 l. 35.  suffer (as the godly do) chastisements and corrections, is not to suffer or feel God's wrath, nor indeed the punishment of sin; except it be in a very improper speech. Where first observe that these words (as the godly do) are not contained in mine answer, but intended by him in his reply. The ground on which I stood, was that all the miseries of man's life what soever they be, came first from the wrath of God revenging the sin of our first Father; and so are degrees and parts of that wrath wherewith God punished the transgression of Adam. I named no miseries peculiar to the godly, but common to them with the wicked; neither did I touch any special manner of suffering as the godly do suffer; but proved that the Scriptures, which must teach us all how to speak in God's causes, called them wrath even in the godly. And consequently, since Christ suffered sorrow, pain, and death, which came for sin, and are common to all, he might and did suffer the wrath of God for us, and yet not the pains of the damned.  
[You cast about afresh (Sir Discourser) in your defence, and tell us the Scriptures 
Phrases of God's wrath in Scripture against the wicked are improper.  speak very improperly, when they call the miseries of this life the wrath of God; and therefore you bring us a new phrase of your own framing, and say the godly in no wise do suffer Gods proper wrath, that is, properly taken, or properly so called, which Christ did suffer as you affirm.] Is your learning so good (Sir Defender) that you will apply to God wrath, indignation, and fury properly so called, which are the highest degrees of God's anger against the wicked? Have you forgotten, who took upon you such knowledge in the Hebrew tongue, that the usual words whereby the Scripture expresseth the wrath of God against the wicked, do import the 
a aph.  nose, the 
b chemal●….  heat, the 
c k●…tseph.  boiling, the 
d char●…n.  kindling, the 
e 〈◊〉.  excess a●…d rage of God against the wicked? which words if you refer to God by way of proper speech, you make of every one of them a barbarous and blasphemous heresy. So that your late coined distinction of God's wrath by improper speech towards his children, and his wrath properly so called against his enemies, is vain and foolish: the words in Scripture that note God's wrath against his enemies are most improper, and are translated from the behauiou●… of angry men to God, of purpose to strike a terror into the wicked, of that great and grievous judgement which they shall receive. But whatsoever the words design in their natural signification, which the Christian faith forbiddeth us to attribute properly unto God, because they express human affections and corporal passions, which are not in God: by the anger which is in God against sin, the Scripture meaneth nothing else, but his most holy dislike of sin in whomsoever, and his most just and constant will and decree, in some to reward sin according to desert, which is vengeance in this life, and the next; in others so to temper the punishment of sin with love and mercy, that whatsoever he inflict on body or soul, shall tend to the praise of his justice and mercy, and end with the consolation and salvation of their souls. And by the anger which proceedeth from God, are in the Scriptures intended either his threats against sin, or his punishments of sin, be they corporal or spiritual, temporal or eternal, mixed with mercy, or proportioned only to justice.  
If you relinquish your holdfast of improper speech, and raze that unadvised shift out of your book; (for God hath in him no wrath properly so called, but his holiness displeased, and justice provoked by sin, are improperly named his wrath in the Scriptures;) Let us come to the proprieties of the things themselves, and see whether chastisements for sin do properly proceed from Gods love only, or from his justice tempered with love and mercy. Of the wicked I shall not need to speak much, we make no great question of them; howbeit even their external punishments in this life are not void of God's bounty and patience diversly blessing them with earthly things, often warning and sparing them, by giving them time and place to mislike and leave their sins; and length-fully expecting their submission and amendment, which the Apostle calleth 
f Rom. 2.  the riches of God's bounty, patience, and long sufferance, leading (even the obstinate and hard hearted) to repentance: The doubt is of the godly; whether their afflictions which are corrections and chastisements for sin, rise only from God's love, or rather from his justice mixed with love. I affirm the Scriptures do directly and distinctly propose in the chastisements of the elect as well judgement and wrath, as mercy and love; and that not by abusing the words, but by reserving to either their natural proprieties, and several consequents; the one for the commendation of God's justice, the other for the demonstration of his mercy, and consolation of the afflicted.  

g Esay 57 17.  For his wicked covetousness I was angry, (saith God) and did smite him, ‖ but ‖ I will heal him, and restore comfort unto him. He must be more than absurd; that will imagine, God would or could say, for his wicked covetousness I loved him; that were to make God the abettour and embracer of wickedness, which is wholly repugnant to his Divine sanctity and glory; the words therefore must stand as they do without any evasion of improper speech, and God's anger in this place must plainly differ from his love, which cannot be added to these words without evident impiety. Since then the cause was sin which God doth perfectly hate in whomsoever, even in his own, and the smiting came for sin and from anger, it is not possible this chastisement should spring only from love, but jointly both must work together, I mean God's anger against sin, and his love towards the person, to make the punishment tolerable, and comfortable to the bearer. The like rule God giveth for all that belong to the true seed, and son of David, which is Christ. If 
h Psal. 89. 31. 32.  his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgements; I will visue their transgressions with the Rod, and their iniquity with s●…ripes; but my mercy will I not take from him. God threateneth no love to sin, he threateneth anger; the stripes here mentioned are not the love of a father, but mitigated by love; the mercy here promised, is not adjoined as the only cause of this correction, which is ascribed to the transgressions and iniquities of the children; but it serveth for a salve, to heal the wound, which Gods justice provoked by their sins should formerly make. For he is the God that 
i Deut. 32.  woundeth and healeth; killeth, and quickeneth; 
k 1. Sam. 2.  casteth down to hell, and raiseth up again; not working contraries by one and the self same love, but when he hath justly done the one for our offences, he graciously doth the other for his mercy's sake; in 
l Habacuk. 3.  wrath remembering mercy, lest we should be consumed. He than despouseth the Church unto himself in 
m Ose. 2.  judgement and mercy, not in judgement forgetting mercy, nor by mercy excluding judgement, for 
n 1. Petri. 4.  judgement beginneth at the house of God; but retaining both that the whole Church may 
o Psal. 101.  sing mercy and judgement unto him as David did; yet with this difference that he doth not 
p Lament. 3.  punish with the hart, as the Prophet testifieth, but his 
q Miche. 7.  delight is in mercy. Which plainly proveth the Rod is not all one with love, as the Apostle noteth, when he opposeth the one against the other; saying, 
r 1. Cor. 4.  Shall I come to you with a rod or in love? but is guided by love, lest in displeasure God should 
s Psal. 77.  shut up his mercies. These two therefore in God, just anger against the sins, and tender love towards the persons of his children, together with their effects, which are judgement and mercy, may not be confounded the one with the other, but as they have different causes and proprieties in God, so have they different effects and consequents in us; the Scriptures bearing witness, that God's anger riseth for our sins, his love for his own names sake; his anger he threateneth, his love he promiseth; he hath no pleasure in punishing, he delighteth in mercy; he repenteth him often of the evil which he denounceth, his gifts and calling are without repentance; when we call upon him he delivereth us out of all our troubles, his mercy will he never take from his, nor frustrate his truth. Yea, the godly have a different feeling of his anger towards them from his love; they fear, they faint, they grieve, and groan under the burden of affliction, they wax weary of it, they pray against it; they give him thanks when they are freed from it; none of which affections may with any sense of godliness agree to his love.  
[But these are 
t deafen. p. 13.  no effects of Gods proper wrath, (you think) 
u Et pa. 10.  Christ only having wholly suffered that for us all.] What you mean by God's proper wrath, is known only to yourself, you never express nor expound the word, but with more obscure and doubtful terms then the former. At first, you affirm God's wrath towards his children was a most improper speech. I have now showed, that if you look to the words used in the sacred Scriptures, God's wrath towards his enemies is as improper a speech as the other. Your second wrench was, that all chastisements for sin are inflicted on God's children properly by his love. I have proved, that they proceed properly from God's justice tempered with mercy, and not from his only love. Your third shift is now, they are no effects of Gods proper wrath, which Christ did wholly suffer for us all. If you understand by God's proper wrath that which is only wrath, and hath no admixture of his love, favour or mercy, then is your position ridiculous in your first main point, and blasphemous in the second. For who ever avouched that God punished his children, and his enemies with the same degrees and effects of wrath? or who ever dreamt that God chastising the sins of his elect, in wrath remembered not his mercy? you do indeed affirm of Christ, that he suffered all Gods proper wrath, which if you now interpret to be without all respect of love or favour towards him, you light on a greater blasphemy, than you are ware of. Wherefore look well to your new found phrases of Gods mere justice, and proper wrath, with which you think to colour your conceits; they will else prove you a weak Scholar, and a worse Christian.  
The word (proper) applied to God's wrath may signify either that which is not figurative; or that which is not common to others; or that which hath no mixture of love, or mercy to mitigate wrath, but is wholly and only wrath. In God nothing is figurative; he is naturally, and wholly truth itself. The words applied to him are often improper and figurative, because we can hardly speak, or understand many things that are in him, but by such words as are known and familiar to us. In this sense all that the Scripture intendeth by wrath in God, is most proper, and natural to God; namely his holiness abhorring sin; his justice proportioning punishment to it, and his power performing whatsoever his will and council decreeth for the repressing, or revenging of sin. For which respect Zanchius, a very moderate and considerate writer of our time, and one whom amongst others, the Discourser 
x deafen. p. 26.  judgeth no way inferior to the best of the Ancients, setteth down this for one of his Resolutions, which he calleth a Thesis: 
y De tribus Elohim lib. 4. ca 6. quaest. 1.  Ira, eo sensu, quo scripturae dant illam deo, veré, & proprié, ei attribuitur: Anger, in that sense in which the Scriptures give it to God, is truly and properly ascribed unto him. And his resolutions ensuing upon the former are not only, that God is 
z Ibid. quaest. 2.  angry, (he meaneth truly and properly as his first Thesis affirmeth,) with all sinners as well elect, as reprobate; but that, 
a Ibid. quaest. 4.  maior & gravior est ira dei adversus homines etiam electos, propter peccata, quam existimari possit ab ipsis hominibus. The anger of God against his elect for sin, is greater and greevouser, than they can conceive.  
A second signification of proper may be, that this wrath which the Scriptures attribute to God, is proper to him, and common to no creature else. Men, and devils have wrath, but that is tumultuous, or vicious; and hath no communion with God's wrath, which is righteous and holy. The Saints and Angels in heaven no doubt detest all iniquity, but they are no fit discerners, esteemers, nor rewarders of sin. The secrets of the heart they know not, whose uncleanness is open only to the eyes of God. The weight of sin they cannot truly balance; he only that is offended, and cannot be deceived, rightly knoweth how far every sin should displease, and what every sin deserveth. As they cannot fully ponder offences, no more can they justly proportion punishment to the demerits of every sinner, and least of all ordain, and arm means temporally to afflict, or eternally to revenge the bodies and souls of transgressors: he only that is alwise, all-holy, all-iust and almighty, can thoroughly discern, perfectly dislike, evenly reward, and powerfully repress sin by repentance or vengeance, as seemeth best to him; and therefote he only is the righteous judge of the world, and capable of that wrath, which is proper to God.  
A third meaning of God's proper wrath may be this, that as every thing most rightly deserveth his name, when it hath in 〈◊〉 permixtion of the contrary to alter his nature; so Gods proper wrath may be that which is wholly and only wrath without any temper of mercy or love, to diminish the heat and height of wrath. That is most properly light, that hath no darkness; truth, that hath no falsehood; good, that hath no evil in it. And since God's justice against the wicked admitteth neither love to their persons, nor mercy to their miseries; that is also Gods proper wrath, which is fully and wholly wrath without any favour or pity towards them that are the vessels of wrath appointed to destruction. Of their damnation S. john writeth: The 
b ●…euel. 14.  smoke of their torment shall ascend for ever, and they shall have no rest day nor night. Whereby it is evident, their 
c ●…ames. 2.  judgement shall be merciless, their 
d Mark. 9  worm never dying, and the fire never quenching. And how can it be otherwise, since they are both haters and hated of God. 
e 〈◊〉 1.  jacob have I loved (saith God) and Esau have I hated. Thou 
f Psal. 5.  hatest (saith David to God) all those that work wickedness. Yea 
g Rom. 1.  the wrath of God (saith Paul) is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. For as they regarded not to know God, so God delivered them up into a reprobate mind to do unseemly things. Neither is there any greater wrath in this life, then for men to be left to the lusts of their own hearts, that they may be full of all unrighteousness, wickedness, maliciousness, haters of God, inventors of evil, void of all love, fidelity, and mercy, and here receive in themselves a meet reward of their error, to prepare them for eternal vengeance, with devils in the world to come. This wrath of God against the wicked, hath in it neither love, nor mercy, but is wholly wrath proportioned to their desires which are sinful, and their deserts which are hateful before God, and so they feel the just, and full recompense of their affected ignorance, and wilful disobedience. Of this wrath the elect do not taste, they are freed from it in Christ their Redeemer and Saviour, by whose spirit their minds are lightened and renewed, and their hearts persuaded to the obedience of faith, and by whose death they are wholly delivered from the wrath to come. Of the two former they often taste, specially when they neglect continual and serious repentance, to which free remission of sins is offered in the blood of Christ jesus; or when through the rebellion of the flesh against the spirit, they are carried back to the desires of their former corruption. In which cases the Lord with sundry and sore afflictions letteth them sharply feel what it is to provoke the holiness, or abuse the goodness of so gracious a Father, and never leaveth scourging them, till they see and acknowledge their unruliness, and lament and leave their uncleanness, taking hope and hold through faith of his mercies promised them in Christ jesus.  
If it can not be truly said of the elect, that in this third sense, which you urge, they taste of God's proper wrath, because of the love which God beareth, and showeth them in Christ his son; how much less may it be avouched of Christ himself, that he suffered all Gods proper wrath; on whom nothing was laid for our sins, but with so great love, favour, and honour (considering the cause which he undertook) that God in each and all Christ's sufferings declared him to be the best pleasing sacrifice, and most sufficient recompense for sin, that heaven could yield, or God would have. For whether we look to the choice of the person, to the measure of his chastisement, or to the reward of his labour, we shall see the exceeding and admirable love, and favour of God towards him, albeit the justice of God kindled against our sins, did not quit him from all pain: yea that very chastisement, by which he yielded, and learned obedience, did not only witness, but also increase God's love towards him. And where you (Sir Discourser) cast your eyes only upon Gods severe and implacable justice against sin, when you speak of Christ's sufferings, to serve your own turn, and to toll in hell-paines with some pretence of piety; all the godly may perceive, and must confess, that God in satisfaction for sin had greater regard of his holiness despised by man's disobedience, and of his glory defaced by Satan's triumph for our fall, than of the rigour of his justice provoked by contempt of his commandment. For had God chiefly respected the execution of his justice against sin, his own son was most unfit to be subjecteth to that vengeance which was prepared for devils: but God in the recompense which he required for sin, chose rather to have his holiness contented, and his glory advanced, than to have his justice inflicted to the uttermost. And therefore he selected the person of his own son, that might fully satisfy his holiness, and marvelously exalt his glory, but on whom of all others his justice could take least hold; not that his justice should be neglected, but that a moderate punishment in his person, for the worthiness thereof would weigh more even in the balance of God's exact justice, than the depth of God's wrath executed on all the transgressors.  
The chastisement of our peace laid upon him will prove the same. For where the 
What death Christ died.  wages of sin is death, and death due to sin is threefold, spiritual, corporal, and eternal, as I have formerly showed; such was the person of our Saviour, that two parts of death due to sin, could by no rule of God's justice fasten on Christ's human nature. The gifts of God's spirit and grace could not be quenched nor diminished in him; he was 
h john 1.  full of grace and truth; he had not the spirit 
i john 3.  by measure, as we have; but 
k john 1.  of his fullness we all have received. 
l john 8.  It is my father (saith he) that honoureth me, whom ye say to be your God; yet have ye not known him, but I know him; and if I should say I know him not, I should be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his word, and do always the things that please him. The clearness of truth knowing Gods will, and fullness of grace keeping his word, being continually present with the human soul of Christ; most apparently the death of the soul, which excludeth all inward sense and motion of God's spirit, could have no place in him, by reason the death of the soul is the want of all grace, and height of all sin, from which he was free: much less could any part of Christ's manhood by God's justice be condemned to everlasting death, or to hell fire; since there could nothing befall the humanity of Christ, which was unfit for his Divinity, they both being inseparably joined together; or repugnant to that love which God so often professed, and proclaimed from heaven; or injurious to the innocency and obedience, which God so highly accepted, and rewarded; or prejudicial to man's salvation, which God so long before purposed and promised. No weight of sin, no heat of wrath, no rigour of justice could prevail against the least of these, to cast Christ out of heaven, and combine him with devils in the second death, which is the 
m revel. 21.  lake burning with fire and brimstone. There is only left the third kind of death, which is corporal, to which Christ yielded himself willingly for the conservation of God's justice, who inflicted that pain on all men as the general punishment of sin; for the demonstration of his power, who by death overcame death, together with the cause and consequents thereof, and for the consolation of the godly, that they should not faint under the cross, nor fear what sin and Satan could do against them.  
It was love then in God towards us, to give his son for us; 
n john 3.  So God loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have life everlasting: but far greater love to his son, than to us, though the burden of our sins, which we could not bear, were laid upon him. For since God hath. 
o Ephes. 1.  adopted us through Christ jesus unto himself, and made us accepted in his beloved; of force he must be much better beloved, for whose sake we all are beloved. And if to 
p Hebr. 1.  make the world by his son, were an excellent demonstration of God's everlasting and exceeding love towards his son; to 
q john 3.  send him into the world, that the world through him might be saved, doth as far in honour and love exceed the former, as our Redemption, by which heaven is inherited, doth pass our creation, whereby the earth was first inhabited. Neither was it possible that God should remit the rigour of justice against sin, for the love of any, but only of his own son; whom because he loved as dearly as himself, and had made 
r Hebr. 1.  heir of all things; worthily and rightly did the wrath of God against man assuage, and yield to the love of God towards his own son; against whom no punishment could proceed, but such as was fatherly, and served rather to witness obedience, than to execute vengeance. For though you (Sir Discourser) in the height of your unlearned skill resolve, that Christ could suffer no chastisement, but 
s Defenc. pa. 11. l. 11.  all his sufferings were the true and proper punishment, or just vengeance of God for sin; yet the Prophet Esay telleth us, the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and the word Musar, which the Prophet there useth, derived from jasar, is the proper word that in the Scripture signifieth the correction of a father towards his son; and of God likewise towards his Church. 
t Proverb. 19  Chastise thy son (saith Solomon) while there is hope. 
u Deutr. 8.  As a father chasteneth his son, ‖ so ‖ the Lord chasteneth thee, saith Moses to Israel. 
x Proverb. 3.  My Son refuse not the chastening of the Lord. 
y Psal. 94.  Blessed is the man whom thou Lord dost chasten. The like may be seen by those that will look, Deutr. 21. vers. 18. jerem. 2. vers. 30. jerem. 31. vers. 18. Psal. 118. vers. 18. The Apostle concurreth with the Prophet Esay touching Christ's sufferings, and saith, 
z Hebr. 5.  Though he were the son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered. He learned obedience, which is the subjection of a son to his father's chastisement, he tasted not vengeance, which is the indignation of an enemy requiting.  
Yea the very death which Christ suffered in the body of his flesh, was so far from being an effect of God's proper wrath, that it was an increase of God's love towards him, and as well the price of our Redemption, as the cause of all his honour following. 
a john 10.  Therefore the Father loveth me (saith our Saviour) because I lay down my soul (or life) to take it again. And so much the Prophet foretold, 
b Esa. 53.  Therefore will I give him (saith God) a part in many things, and he shall divide the spoil of (or with) the mighty, because he poured out his soul (or life) unto death. Which the Apostle showeth to be thus verified in Christ. 
c Philip. 2.  He humbled himself, being obedient, unto the death, even the death of the Crosse. Wherefore God also highly exalted him, and gave him a name above every name, that in the name of jesus every knee should bow; of things celestial, terrestrial, and infernal, & every tongue confess, that jesus Christ is the Lord, to the glory of God the father. All power, honour and judgement, in heaven, earth, and hell, are therefore delivered over to Christ by God, and all things subjecteth under his feet, because he h●…bled himself, and was obedient to his father unto death, even the death of the Crosse. Was it then wrath in God without love, that brought Christ to his death; or rather unspeakable love in God towards his son, which overruled his justice provoked by our sins, and so highly accepted, and plentifully rewarded the death of Christ, that he made him LORD over all things and persons in heaven, earth, and hell? to give grace and peace, mercy and glory to Gods elect by his means and merits; and to inflict excecation, destruction, and damnation on the wicked both men and devils by his judgement and sentence? If it were admirable love and favour in God towards Christ's human nature to join man's flesh and spirit into the unity and society of his Sons Divine majesty, what inestimable honour and glory was it to put the whole government of God's kingdom in heaven and earth into Christ's hands, which is the reward that God hath allotted to Christ's obedience & patience showed on the Altar of the Cross? So that the learned may soon perceive, I work no 
d Defenc. pa. 19  deceit nor mistaking to the Reader through the ambiguity of this word, THE WRATH OF GOD, as you pretend; but you wandering in the desert of your own devices, have fashioned to yourself a farthel of phrases, as Gods proper, and improper wrath, 〈◊〉 mere justice, and such like, and under the generality and uncertainty of these words you hide your head; and when you are required to make some proof, and show some parts of God's wrath out of the Scripture, which Christ suffered, besides the death of the Cross, and pains thereof, you answer; to 
e Defenc. pa. 17. l. 15.  particularise or to specify the parts of God's wrath, which Christ felt, as I will you to do, what madness were it in men to attempt, and what folly is it in any to require. Indeed it would be madness in you to attempt it, for thereby you should plainly disclose that absurdity and impiety which now is cloaked under general and doubtful terms; but those that be godly will never suffer their faith to be framed by your phrases, except you show warrant of God's word, both whence you collect them, and what you mean by them; neither of which you do, nor can do with any truth in these points now in question.  
For first by what Scripture prove you that Christ did or must suffer the proper 
The Scriptures never mention that Christ suffered God's wrath.  wrath of God or the punishment and vengeance of sin? I following the sense and words of the Scriptures, and of Divines both old & new, which make shame, sorrow, pain and death in this life the effects of God's wrath punishing sin in Adam, and his offspring at his fall, did by consequent (a specie ad genus affirmative) gather, and in that respect confess, that Christ suffering those things on the Cross, suffered the wrath of God, and due punishment of sin in this life: but you tell us now, the Scriptures in that point speak most improperly, you have found out that God's wrath signifieth properly the pains of the damned, and those Christ suffered for our sins. True it is, and long since by me 
f Serm. pa. 131. conclus. pa. 243.  avouched, that God's wrath against sin extendeth to all the pains and punishments of Soul and body, as well in hell as on earth; and in comparison of the terrible torments of hell fire, the pains and punishments of the faithful in this life may be called, and accounted rather the 
g Serm. p. 133.  chastisements of a Father, than the rigour of a judge; but since you refuse that sense of God's wrath, which I collected from the Scriptures as very improper, take no advantage of my confession, and let God's wrath stand in your sense either for God's displeasure against the person offending, or for the vengeance of sin executed on the wicked and damned; I ask you now by what authority of holy Scripture can you prove, that Christ suffered God's proper wrath, or his wrath at all? I recall not my former Resolution, which I take to be sober and sound; but you rejecting it as improper and deceitful, let us see how you prove by the Scriptures that Christ suffered God's wrath, which you so much presume, and make the chief pillar of all your proceedings. In your late defence with shame enough, you yield at last, that this 
h Defenc. pa. 16. l. 12.  word HELL is not literally and expressly applied to Christ's sufferings in the Scriptures; you must likewise yield, by your leave, that this speech, the wrath of God, is not literally nor expressly affirmed of Christ's sufferings in all the Scriptures.  
That 
i Esay. 53.  he was wounded for our transgressions, and torn (or trodden under feet) for our iniquities, and we healed by his stripes; as also that he was afflicted and oppressed, and bore our iniquities, and poured out his soul unto death, the Prophet Esay witnesseth; that he 
k Math. 20. joh 18.  drank of the Cup, which his Father gave him, the Evangelists mention; and the Apostle saith, he was 
l Rom. 4.  delivered, and 
m 1. Cor. 15.  died for our sins according to the Scriptures; but none of these express or infer that he suffered the proper wrath of God, or full punishment and vengeance of sin; which are the phrases placed for the groundwork of all your discourse, though no way proved by any show of Scripture. The words used generally by the holy Ghost to express Christ's sufferings (besides the former) import that he gave himself for us to be the 
n Ephes. 5.  sacrifice, the 
o 1. Cor. 6.  price, and the 
p 1. Timoth 6.  ransom of our deliverance. All which words note no wrath conceived against him, nor vengeance executed on him; but rather the exceeding love and favour of God towards him, as the only Sacrifice that God would accept; the only price that God did esteem, the only ransom that God would receive for the sin of the world. This Sacrifice was his body, this price was his blood, this ransom was his death. 
q Hebr. 10.  We are sanctified by the offering of the body of jesus once ‖ made ‖. 
r 1. Cor. 6.  price●…th ●…th Paul, that is, 
s 1. Petri. 1.  ye were redcemed with the precious blood of Christ, saith Peter. For 
t Ephes. 1.  we have redemption in him by his blood; And 
u Hebr. 9  he is the mediator of the new testament, through death, for the ransom of the transgressions in the former testament, So that by the sacrifice of his body, price of his blood, and ransom of his death, he hath made a most full recompense, satisfaction, and redemption for the sins of the world: and consequently the punishment which he sustained, 
x 1. Petri 2.  when he bore our sins in his body on the tree, was the full & perfect 
y Hebr. 1.  purgation, and 
z 1. joh. 2.  propitiation of our sins; full not in the degrees and parts of condemnation and vengeance due to sin, which the damned do suffer, as you falsely and absurdly insinuate, but full in price and force of Redemption and deliverance from sin; for somuch, as God's holiness is highly pleased with the obedience, God's glory greatly advanced by the humility, and God's justice fully satisfied with the submission and patience of his Son on the Crosse.  
More than this if you will urge on the person of Christ, as needful for our Redemption, first prove it, and then profess it at your pleasure; otherwise if you boldly and vainly presume it, your addle and idle words can not prejudice the settled and undoubted principles of the Christian faith warranted by the word of God, and fully received by the Church of Christ even from the beginning. To your maimed and ruinous foundation that Christ must suffer all and the very same punishment, wages, and vengeance of sin, which the damned do suffer, and we should have suffered, had we not been excused by his suffering it for us; I have plainly and sadly answered I know not how often, it is a false and lewd imagination; and so impious, that yourself dare not in your late Defence offer it to view, without many bridles to hold it from horrible blasphemy. But (Sir discourser) why coin you conclusions in christian Religion, that must have three or four exceptions to save them from open impiety? and why see you not that your special reservations overthrow the truth of your own assertion? for where the true and proper punishment, wages and vengeance of sin in all the wicked is spiritual, corporal, and eternal death; in your limitations at last, which you forgot at first, you except Christ from spiritual death, which is sin, and from eternal death which is damnation of body and soul to hell fire; & yet you still affirm, that Christ suffered the full & proper punishment, wages, and vengeance of sin, as though these two, spiritual and eternal death, were no parts of the punishment & vengeance due to sin; or these being excepted as unfit for Christ to suffer; you could truly say Christ suffered the full and proper punishment, and vengeance of sin, which consisteth of these three kinds of death.  
And who but you would send us such headless and senseless resolutions in Divinity as these are; I 
a Defenc. pa. 13. l. 22.  affirm that Christ suffered all gods proper wrath, and vengeance for sin, I say all that the very damned do suffer, namely so described and limited as is above said. And again, 
b Defenc. pa. 12. l. 1.  He suffered from God's hand even as the damned do; namely in these points which are both possible and reasonable. Were you some new Evangelist, or upstart Apostle, it were even enough for you to refer Christ's sufferings to your description and your limitation without any farther authority; but when you take upon you with your bare word to broach so many novelties in Christian religion, without one line or letter of holy writ to uphold your dreams and devices, who can choose but deride your folly? You pin men's faiths for the ground of their salvation to your descriptions and your limitations, to possibility and reason measured by your rule without any text or title of Scripture to warrant your words; and than you think the main question is profoundly and fully handled; but your sober and wise Reader will presently find the lameness or lewdness of your grand conclusion. For if Christ's person not only by your possibility and reason, but by the soundness of truth, and sincereness of faith must be exempted from sin which is the death of the soul, and from damnation which is everlasting death; why write you so boldly that Christ must suffer all Gods proper wrath, even all that the damned do suffer; whereas apparently those two being excepted, Christ could suffer no kind of death but only a corporal? And if by your so describing and so limiting the matter, you draw Christ within the stain or guilt of sin, or within the compass or danger of damnation; hope you to find any Christian ears so patient that will endure that monstrous and sacrilegious indignity?  
[But you will invent a new hell for Christ, which shall have the 
c Defenc. pa. 13. l. 14.  substance, but not the circumstance of damnation, and shallbe inflicted 
d Ibid. pa. 12. l. 32.  by God's immediate hand properly, ye a only in the very soul of Christ, 
e l. 27. God can do more than he will.  which Gods own infinite wrathful power and justice can inflict for satisfaction, where and how it pleaseth him.] The question (good Sir) is not of God's power what he can do, but of his will revealed in his Word, and of his promise performed in the person of his son for our salvation, and testified by the mouths and pens of the Prophets and Apostles, that were guided by his holy spirit to speak and write the truth. I make no doubt, but God can create another heaven, another earth, and another hell, as quickly and as easily as he did these that now are; yet if any man affirm that God will so do, or hath so done, I must hold him for an Infidel, because he gainsayth God's truth, and belieth God's will by pretending God's power. Talk not therefore what God can do; show rather by the word and witness of truth what God hath done; to that must we trust, to that are you bound, and from that are you slipped. You have not so much as any colour of Scripture, for these desperate novelties and vanities, I will give them no worse words, lest you complain of my bitterness; and if any man be but so wise, as to let your prove these things before he believe them, he is safe enough for ever admitting them, I may spare my pains in refuting them; yet because destitute of all other help, you appeal to possibility and reason, to fourbish your new invention of another hell, let us see how handsomely you hale it onward.  

f Defenc. pa. 8. l. 12.  [By the law of our creation as we are men, having a soul besides our body, so our soul hath in it a threefold faculty of suffering pains. First that which is proper and immediate justly so called: proper, because it is proper only to reasonable and immortal spirits. Immediate two ways; First, because it can and doth receive an impression of sorrow and pains made from God only by and in itself, without any outward bodily means thereunto. Secondly, it is also an immediate punishment or else correction of sin: it cometh not for any other cause at all. So that thus we mean, when we speak of the souls proper and immediate suffering. The souls second faculty of suffering pains, is not proper, but common to us with beasts: namely, that which is by sympathy and communion with and from the body. A third kind of painful suffering the soul hath: namely, her vehement and strong affections are painful, whether they be good or evil, as zeal, love, compassion, pity, care, etc. neither are these immediately for sin, whether punishments or corrections: neither are they punishments, or corrections at all properly in themselves: accidentally they may be, when they grow so strong that they pain and grieve the soul.]  
If the walls and roof of your new hell rise no fairer, nor stand no faster than your foundation doth; a weak puff of wind will blow all away. If a man should shortly answer you, That the soul of man hath but one faculty of suffering, though the means be divers from which and by which she suffereth pains, and that the means be far more than you number (as namely she may suffer pain from her own understanding and will, yea from devils and from the fire of hell, besides the means which you reckon, to wit, her sympathy with the body, her vehement affections, and the immediate hand of God when and where pleaseth him) your building is at an end; you can go no farther; you have neither Divinity, nor Philosophy, possibility, nor reason to support that which you would so feign infer. But let us view your specialties.  
[The soul (you say) by the law of our creation hath in it a threefold faculty of suffering pain.] The soul indeed by her creation hath a triple reference to good and evil; to wit, her apprehension and distinction of either; her inclination and motion to either; and her impression and passion from both; and for the performance of these she hath sundry and several parts and faculties. For as man was made to know God, and love God, and after a time of obedience perfectly to enjoy God, who is only and wholly good; so had he three special powers and faculties in his soul answerable to these three purposes of the Creator; and yet capable of the contrary, which was the want of all good, if he fell ●…rom God. And therefore by the power of his understanding man might discern good and evil; by the liberty of his will ●…e might elect and embrace either, and by the passibility of his soul he might feel and suffer the impression and sequel of both by joy or pain, which God in his justice allotted to be the end and wages of liking and doing good or evil. And because for the service and safety of his body, and for the duties and actions of this life, man was to use earthly things, and also to need outward means for hearing the word, and viewing the works of God, there were given him senses to perceive, and sensitive motions to desire things needful and delightful for him, as also to dislike the evil of penury, pain, and sorrow that should be occurrent to his senses. In which the wisdom of God ordained, that what seemed good to man's imagination should provoke his desire with love and delight, and what seemed evil, should offend him with some touch of grief; the superior and spiritual powers of the soul being given as judges to censure, restrain and oue●…rule the sensitive delights and motions, where they swerved from the true rule of good and evil, which was only Gods will revealed, or written in the heart of man. The respects and diversities of good and evil offered in general to the sense and understanding of man, were sanctity, sufficiency, and felicity with their contraries, and likewise the general passions and impressions of good and evil received in the soul, were hope and joy for good approaching or posfessed; and fear and pain for the imminence or presence of evil, as also for the departure or loss of good, in whose place evil, which is the privation of good, necessarily succeeded. The passions then of evil (for true joy and hope thereof, are rather perfections than passions of the soul) are fear and grief; and the means by which they are wrought in the soul, and brought to the soul, are naturally the senses and affections, understanding and will; and supernaturally the hand of God, or such external means as God hath provided to punish the soul.  
So that first your making a threefold faculty in the soul of suffering pains, is an ignorant conceit in you, as if the faculty of suffering pains were multiplied, because the means inflicting pains are many. If I should say, The soul hath in it a thre●…fold faculty of understanding, for that it perceiveth many things by the senses of her body; many things by her own light and remembrance; and many things by the immediate revelation of God's spirit; might not wise men justly deride me, knowing the power and faculty of understanding to be but one and the selfsame in man, though the means be divers by which that faculty is informed? Likewise the will of man is carried sometimes by the eye, sometimes by the ear at the persuasion of others, sometimes by her own affections, sometimes by fear, sometimes by reason, sometimes by grace; shall we therefore say the soul hath in it a sixfold faculty of liking and electing that which is offered her? or rather it is one and the same power of will, which is moved and often times ruled by these six means; partly from the body, partly from herself, partly from others, and partly from God. Even so the passibility of the soul, or the faculty of suffering pain, is but simple and single in the soul, how many soever the means be, by which she receiveth the impression of pain: otherwise you might as well say, The soul hath contrary faculties of suffering, because she feeleth contrary impressions of joy and pain sometimes striving together, sometimes succeeding each the other; but the soul as she is furnished with her faculties to discern, and elect good and evil, so is she framed to receive the impressions of either which are contrary; and in that respect capable of joy and pain in this life, howsoever in the next life, the soul shall be perpetually fastened to the one or to the other without alteration or change.  
As you confound the faculty of suffering pain with the causes offering, and the 
The agents and means by which the soul suffereth pain.  means bringing the impression of pain to the soul; so do you neither fully number the agents from which, nor the means by which pain is inflicted on the soul, on which you ground your three kinds of the souls suffering of pains. If the soul were not passable, that is, capable of joy and pain, she could neither be rewarded for well doing, nor punished for evil. But God hath created her receivable of both, that as she should do good or evil in his sight, so she might suffer and feel that which should be good or evil, to wit, joyous or grievous even in her own sense and judgement. Of both, (I mean joy and pain as they are rewards of well and evil doing) God alone is in this life, and the next, the supreme ordainer, appointer, effecter, worker, and distributer, all other agents and means whatsoever serving only his will, expressing his power, and obeying his commandment; yet that doth not hinder, but in the punishing of his own here, or of his enemies in this world and the next, God may and doth use instruments and means, whom and what pleaseth him to perform his will. For example in this life, besides God's agents to punish, which are Angels, men, devils, and all other creatures; the means which he hath ordained to impress pain in the soul, are as many as there be intellective or sensitive powers and abilities in the soul to foresee, discern, or remember whatsoever evil past, present, or to come, on us, or on others whom we love; or to perceive, or desire any good which is lost, lacking, or likely to be taken from us, or from others whom we regard. So that not only sympathy with and from the body, and vehement and strong affections, of zeal, love, compassion, pity, and care, which you reckon, do pain the soul; but the eyes, and ears, upon a thousand occasions, when the body is not touched, bring fear and grief to the heart; yea the understanding, remembrance, conscience, and will (which you utterly forget) do oftener offend and afflict the soul even of the gody, than either the body, or the affections do. And in the world to come (which you purposely skip to make way for your new hell) besides the loss of glory, sting of conscience, and shame of sin, the Scriptures assure us that utter darkness, ruthfullwailing, horror of devils, torment of fire, despair of case shal●… afflict the bodies and souls of the damned with intolerable and eternal anguish, as when we come to speak thereof, we shall more largely prove.  
A third error in you is, that you make your second kind of the souls suffering pain, which is by sympathy and communion with and from the body, not to be proper to man, but 
g Defenc. p. 8. l. 23.  common to us with beasts; wherein you bewray either your understanding not to be great, or your intent to be wild. For though beasts have bodies and senses, as men have, and the pain of their bodies pierceth and affecteth the sensitive parts & powers of life in them; yet have they no souls I trust, which can be affected the pain of their bodies, as men have. I hope you be not so deep in your distillation of hell, that you will bestow souls on beasts to make them liable to your newfound pains of hell; but in men their immortal spirits are and shall be afflicted by their bodies and senses both here, and in hell, when the full punishment of their sins cometh to be laid upon them. 
h job. 19  How long will you vex my soul, saith job. 
i Psal. 105.  The ●…on entered into his soul, saith the Psalmist of joseph's fetters. 
k Eccles. 1.  All is vanity, and affliction of the spirit, saith the Preacher. 
l Luc. 2.  A sword shall pierce thy soul, saith Simeon to Marie. Then for the soul or spirit of man to be vexed, afflicted, pierced, and pained by and from the body, is proper to man, and no way common to us with beasts, which have no souls: and that kind of suffering pain which is without the body, is not proper to the soul, by reason it is common to men with devils, who have no bodies, and yet suffer pain aswell by their understanding and will, as by external means appointed of God to punish the damned both souls and devils. Wherefore your terms of the souls proper and immediate suffering, which before I called unsalted and unsettled, and you say are 
m Defenc. p. 9 l. 6.  easy to be understood and necessarily to be used in this question, as you now have declared and delivered them, are false and absurd. For no kind of suffering pain is proper to the soul of man, but only that which is with the body, or by the body; the other kind of suffering pain by understanding and will, and by hellfire, being common to men with devils; which have no bodies, and are no souls, no more than souls in heaven are Angels. S. Austen truly saith, 
n August. ' retracta. l. 1. cap. 11.  Angelos habere animas, nusquam me legisse in divinis eloquijs canonicisque recolo. That Angels have souls I do not remember I have any where read in the divine and canonical Scriptures. Since than devils have neither bodies nor souls, though they be spirits; and beasts though they have bodies, yet have they no souls to be pained by their bodies; it is evident that the piercing and afflicting of the spirit and soul of man by the body, and from the body, is the only kind of suffering which is proper to the soul of man; the spiritual affliction of the soul by her understanding and will, and by the torment of perpetual and eternal fire, being common to men with the reprobate Angels.  
To the immediate suffering of the soul in hell, which is another of your newfound 
Good affections of love & zeal are not painful.  fancies, I will immediately come, if first I touch an error or two in your former words; to let the Reader see, that you are unlike to lay sure grounds in faith, when you know not the plain rules of Nature. A third kind of painful suffering (you say) the soul hath: namely her vehe●…ent and strong affections are painful, whether they be good or evil, as zeal, love, etc. I pray you Sir, how come zeal, and specially love, when they be good, to be painful affections in your Calendar? S. john saith, 
o 1. john 4.  There is no fear in love; and giveth this reason; for fear hath painfulness, presupposing it for a prinple, that love hath no pain: which is most true; because we delight in that which we love; and so love having no pain in it, but delight, it hath consequently no fear, by reason fear hath pain, which love hath not. But if it be strong (you will say) it paineth the soul. If love bring delight, the stronger the love that is good, the greater the delight; and so the strength of love doth not increase, but exclude all pain. Which is also S. john's rule, 
p 1. john 4.  Perfect love casteth out fear, which is the least impression of pain that may be. And where love that is good, is strongest and most fervent, as namely in heaven, there is no place for pain; and in earth when we are commanded to 
q Luc. 10.  love the Lord ‖ our ‖ God, with all ‖ our ‖ heart, with all ‖ our ‖ soul, with all ‖ our ‖ strength, and ‖ our ‖ neighbour as ‖ our ‖ selves, must we be wholly delighted, or partly grieved with God, and our neighbour. The like is to be said for zeal, which is nothing but the heat or fervency of love. Accidentally they may turn us to pain, when our godly zeal and love are hindered, or crossed by the wicked. But the thing that grieveth us in those cases is not our love, but the lewdness of the wicked, despising or wronging that which we zealously love. And so may all virtues pain us. What just man is not displeased with injustice? What liberal mind is not moved at avarice? What valiant heart is not grieved with cowardice? The like we shall find in all other virtues; even an inward offence at their contraries, and yet no wise man will say that virtues are pains and punishments of the soul.  
[Of 
r Dèfenc. p. 8. l 33.  compassion, and pity, among the rest you say accidentally they may be punishments when they grow so strong that they grieve the soul.] As though there could be any compassion or pity which doth not grieve the soul. What is pity but sorrow at the sight of another man's misery? and what is compassion but a vehement passion or grief of the heart for his misery whom we dearly love? so that there can be neither compassion nor pity, without sorrow and grief of heart; neither are they at any time punishments if they be good, but rather Christian duties and virtues. The miseries of those whom we love, may be punishments unto us; and our compassion on them, if they be wicked, may turn to be vicious, and so be a punishment because it is immoderate, where it should be temperate; as we read of David's excessive compassion on Absalon his lewd and rebellious son. These be errors enough in so few words, but these are nothing to those that follow in favour of the souls immediate suffering from the hand of God himself without any instruments or inferior means. I might resume your former words of the souls immediate suffering from God alone; but because you heap up a great deal of rubbish to the same purpose much like the other, or rather much worse than the other; I think it best to rid all together.  

s Defence p. 9 l. 9  Thirdly, we must also note, that God himself is always and evermore the principal and proper punisher when the soul suffereth pains after the first manner, that is in her proper and 
What suffering is immediate from God.  immediate faculty of suffering. And that is always immediately for sin also, not for any other cause at all. Fourthly, God himself therefore was thus the principal, and only proper punisher of Christ, as he sustained the punishment of our sins. The devils and wicked men his persecutors did their parts also indeed for other ends, but yet they were all as instruments only, and used by God unto his own end, namely that Christ might pay hereby a just price and full satisfaction for our sins. It was then the Almighty and most just God himself in his severe wrath against our sin, that principally and properly inflicted on Christ the pains and punishments, which he as our surety suffered for the paying of our ransom. As it is written, 
t Esa. 53.  The Lord LAID UPON HIM THE PUNISHMENT OF US ALL.  
Your phrases be so fresh and new, that yourself can scant tell what to make of them, or how to expound them. In these words, and those which go but the next side before, you set us down three interpretations of the souls immediate suffering not agreeing the one with the other. 
u Defenc. p. 8. l. 8.  All suffering of pain, is (you say) from God, either from him alone, or also from his instruments and inferior means. This presently you call immediately or mediately; and this cometh nearest to the sense of the word, if it came as near to the truth of the matter. For what is immediate, but without all means? The souls first manner of suffering pain then (as you say) is immediate, that is 
x Defenc. p. 8. l. 8.  from God only; you must imply without all instruments or inferior means whatsoever. For that kind of suffering which hath any means or instruments, is mediate, not immediate from God alone. Why then in your second interpretation of immediate, do you not exclude all instruments and means, but only outward bodily means? For thus you say in the second place, It is justly called 
y Defenc. p. 8. l. 18.  immediate, because it can and doth receive an impression of sorrow and pain made from God, only by and in itself without any outward bodily means thereunto. here you exclude not all means, but outward bodily means. And when Satan led Saul for fear, and Achitophel for anger, and judas for sorrow to despair, and in fine to dispatch themselves; this desperation wrought in them by Satan, was by your doctrine immediate from God, because the devil was the doer thereof, without any outward bodily means. And likewise, when by hatred, rage, fear, and fury Satan afflicteth the children of disobedience, in whom he worketh; this you will call the immedia●…e hand of God, because he useth a spirit, and not a body for his instrument. And yet doubting how this can be maintained, for that God useth men aswell as devils to prove and punish both his own and his enemies, you fall to a third sense of immediate, where you make God alone the principal; the rest to be only instruments; and so that is immediately from God, which is principally from God, what means or instruments soever he use, bodily, or ghostly, men or devils. And in this sense all pains and punishments whatsoever, wheresoever, by whomsoever, are immediately, that is, principally from God, and by consequent all three kinds of suffering pain in the soul which you put, and what means soever else can be named of inflicting and impressing pain in the soul are immediate from God, that is, they come chiefly from him, whose power, will, and judgement the rest demonstrate or execute. And thus for want of truth and lack of understanding, whiles you labour to expound the soul's immediate suffering of pain from God, you utterly subvert and overthrow all that you would say.  
[Again, God himself (you say) is always and evermore the principal and proper punisher, when the soul suffereth pains after the first manner, that is in her proper and immediate faculty of suffering.] Keep your manifold faculties to procure you more wit; the soul hath but one faculty to suffer and feel pain, how many soever the means be from which or by which she may receive pain; it shall suffice to call it the first manner of the souls suffering pain. When you say God is the principal and proper punisher, what mean you by punisher? Amongst men the judge determineth and pronounceth what shall be done, the hangman executeth the sentence upon the condemned, and both in their kinds are punishers. The like appeareth in God's judgements. God alone is the decreer, appointer and commander; though he v●…e angels, men, devils, and all other creatures to execute his will for the punishing of sin; or delivering of his servants from the hands of the wicked. This is the difference betwixt an earthly & the heavenly judge; that men give to men right, and not strength to execute their judgements, but God as he gave to all his creatures all the strength which by nature they have, when he first made them; so he useth their natural strength which he gave, and giveth them farther power and force, where need is, fully to accomplish his will and commandment: yea farther, he useth the wills and forces of men and devils for ends and effects to them unknown, and in them unrighteous, but to him most just and holy. So that God is the only punisher as a judge to decree, appoint, and command what shall befall every man for sin; he is also the onli●… giver and supporter of all power and force, when any punishment is executed either by the natural strength of any creature, or by strength and might above nature; but that God is always and evermore the executioner, when the soul suffereth otherwise than by her body, or by her affections, or that he was the principal and only proper executioner of Christ as he suffered for our sins; or that in hell (which is your upshot) God is the immediate executioner and tormentor of souls and devils, those are rather sick men's dreams or mad men's fits, than sober and Christian verities.  
And in plain reason how agreeth this word principal, either with proper or with immediate, both which are joined by you with it? Where God is principal, there useth he other means and instruments besides himself, and his own hand. Principal hath always accessaries and instruments, and where they intermeddle, they use not Gods immediate hand, but such means as they are able and apt to guide. So that when God is principal punisher, he is neither proper nor immediate punisher, but useth the service and force of his creatures to perform his appointment; and when he is either the proper, or immediate executor of his own will, he neither needeth, nor useth his creatures. And here the third time you play with the word proper, but very improperly, as you did twice before; first with God's proper wrath, then with the souls proper faculty of suffering, now with the proper punisher, which can no way be matched with principal and applied to God without a palpable absurdity. For refer principal whether you will, to the determination or to the execution of Gods will and judgement; to say that God is the principal determiner of his own will, is a wicked speech. For who is God's counsellor to advise him, or associate to assist him; that God should be principal and others concurrent with him to promote his will with their consents; or restrain it with their dislikes? God is not only a judge of the world, but the sole judge thereof; to make him principal and not sole therein, is to impart his right, and glory unto others, which he will not endure. We shall see, honour, and admire, and with heart and voice magnify the righteousness of God's judgement that shall be given by his Son; ●…n which sense it is said, 
z 1. Cor. 6.  The Saints shall judge the world; yea, we shall judge the Angels, but that is by submitting our wills to his, and by glorifying his judgement, as in heaven his Saints always do, not by claiming voices with him. There is then no judge of the soul but only God, and to say he is principal judge thereof, is apparently to dishonour him. Will you refer principal to the execution of God's judgements? then he must have some others to conjoin with him in common; and they must use such means as lie in their power; and so God is neither the proper nor immediate punisher of the soul, where he is the principal. And when it pleaseth him to take upon him the chief execution of his own judgement, what cause is there he should call assistants unto him? Doth he lack wisdom, or power, that his creatures must aid and help him? I wish you to weigh your words better, before you wade in things above your height.  
Your words are absurd, your matter is more absurd, and the proofs you bring for it are most absurd of all. To bring Christ's soul within the compass of hell pains, you flash out the fire of hell as a fable, and turn out of service the rest of the torments there, namely rejection from the kingdom of heaven, the sting of Conscience, confusion of Sin, horror of darkness and devils, despair of ease and such like, as no pains, or at least as no substantial pains of hell: you suppose a pain which you imagine cometh from the immediate power of God, upon the souls of the wicked as well in earth, as in hell, and so not only you make God the tormentor of souls and devils in hell with his own immediate hand, but you so aggravate the pain thereof, with fiery words, that the reprobate may fully feel it in this world, and yet it neither doth end their lives, nor waste their bodies, which a pang of the stone, or a fit of an Ague will do. The best proof you bring for all this, is a bold face, and big words, wherewith you bid all the world NOTE it is so. But Sir, if charity did not stay me, I should NOTE you rather for an idle talker, then for a booke-maker, which think it lawful for you to allegorize all that the Scripture mentioneth or threateneth of hell; and in the end broach out of the heat of your own head a Chymysticall hell, as well in this world as in the next; and so little regard either the truth of God's speech, or the faith of the whole Church, or the consciences of all good men; that without any further trouble or trial WE MU NOTE, you say so. Such archers, such arrows; such cheapmen, such chaff; a man of your pitch will hardly be brought to any other pass.  
The bottom of your building (for it deserveth not the name of a foundation, it is so weak and rotten) is this, which I wish the Reader to NOTE, it is so notable stuff; That where there are but three sorts of the souls suffering pain, as you conceive; the first by the immediate hand of God, the second by sympathy with the body, and the third by her vehement and strong affections; The affections (you say) are neither 
a deafen. p. 8. l. 29.  immediately for sin, nor punishments at all properly in themselves: the souls second faculty of suffering by sympathy with the body, you affirm, is 
b deafen. pa 8. l. 23.  not proper, but common to us with beasts: the first therefore in your conceit is the 
c Ibid. l. 37.  proper and principal human suffering for sin; which Christ must needs feel being a 
d Ibid. l. 38.  man made of God to suffer for all our sins. Of this wandering and halting division I have spoken before. It is evident the soul may suffer pain from and with the body; and from and by her own powers and faculties of understanding, will, sense, and affections, and from the hand of God immediate or mediate, that is using other means than are beforenamed to punish the soul.  
That the pain of the body paineth the soul of man there can be no question, natural evidence and daily experience sufficiently confirm it: and this is that which you call sympathy, when both do suffer pain together, the one from and with the other. Touching the eyes and ears how often impressions they make of fear and sorrow for ourselves and others, when the body is not touched nor pained, every woman and child can give testimony. Threats, rebukes, evil reports taken in at the ears; dangers, distresses, and losses foreseen or seen in ourselves and others, which must needs trouble and grieve the soul, are no news in any condition or person. The affections which are both ungodly and unruly, are so many blasts and storms tossing the soul to and fro, with anger and fear, with desire and dislike, with pensive care of earthly things and foolish pity, with hope and despair, with unlawful love and hatred, with vain joy and unprofitable sorrow, and with a number like heady and hasty passions, insomuch that they often drive the soul to rage and fury, or end this life with grief and disdain. As for the understanding and will; the soul conceiving Gods just and heavy displeasure against sin, and knowing the wages thereof to be final deprivation of all grace and glory, and eternal damnation of body and soul to hellfire; how can she but quake and tremble at the very cogitation and remembrance of her own guiltiness, and of the greatness of his power and justness of his anger? And therefore the godly presently fall upon the consideration hereof to condemn and detest all their sins, and with broken and contrite hearts to lament their unrighteousness, and to afflict their spirits with earnest and inward sorrow till by faith and repentance they find comfort in the mercies of God through Christ jesus. For want of which, the wicked often in this life, and specially at the hour of death, sink under the burden of their sins; and plunged into the depth of desperation are possessed with an horrible fright, and terror of the torments prepared for them in another world; they feeling here on earth in their souls the remorse of sin, and sting of conscience, but not able to rise unto true repentance and hope of salvation by reason of their continual contempt of grace, whiles it was offered them, which then is taken from them. After this life appear the terrible judgements of God against sin, which the wicked so much fear, and the faithful so much shun: the special manner and means whereof as far as the Scriptures deliver them, I will defer till I come to the particular handling of them; though I have often proposed them, and in part proved them; but whether the words of the Scripture expressing them be allegories, that is figurative shadows, or plain speeches, that question is not yet debated; which I reserve till I have ended the immediate suffering of the soul, as this Discourser calleth it.  
Of these six means, besides the immediate hand of God to inflict pain on the soul for the punishment of sin; it pleaseth you (Sir Discourser) to skip four; and the other two in effect to deny. Affections (you say) are neither punishments nor corrections at all properly in themselves; and suffering by sympathy from and with the body, is common (as you avouch) to us with beasts, and is no proper human suffering; because in your judgement your first kind of suffering from the immediate hand of God alone is the proper human suffering, which for that cause yourself call the souls 
e Defenc. p. 8. l. 22.  proper and immediate suffering. But what if in all this you speak not one true word? what if the affections that be evil be properly punishments of sin? what if the soul's suffering, from and with the body, be the true and proper human suffering? what if God use not his immediate hand in tormenting souls; but having ordained and appointed means by his wisdom and power, committeth sinful souls to be punished by those instruments and means which he with his hand hath prepared, and in his word expressed? Do you not show yourself a deep Divine, that prove points of faith by open falsities; and heap up errors by the dozen, binding them with your bare word, and obtruding them to the world as oracles lately slipped from heaven? but go to the parts, and first to the affections, which you affirm are no punishments, whether they be good or evil.  
The affections of the soul that be good, as the love of God, the zeal of his glory, and hope of his mercy and truth, are the special gifts and graces of God's spirit, and so far from paining the soul, that they breed exceeding comfort and joy in the Holieghost. The affections that are e●…ill are not only the rage and reward of sin, but inflict as great anguish as may be felt in this life. Concupiscence which is the root and nurse of all evil affections in us, be they sensitive or intellective; what is it, but the inordinate and intemperate desire and love of our own wills and pleasures, despising and hating whatsoever resisteth or hindereth our devices or delights, yea though it be the will and hand of God himself? this corruption of the soul by sin, which is now natural in us all, whence came it, but from and for the punishment of the first man's sin? what is it but the very poison of sin? and whether tendeth it, but to withstand and refuse all grace, that men rejecting God, and rejected of God, may run headlong to the final and eternal vengeance of their sin? It is no small punishment of sin for men to be left to the 
f Rom. 1.  desires of their own hearts, and to be given over to vile affections; which the Apostle calleth the reward of their error, and even the fullness of all unrighteousness: which make men the servants of sin, whiles they 
g 'tis 3.  wait on lusts, and divers pleasures, which 
h 1. Pet. 2.  fight against the soul, by 
i Rom. 7.  leading it captive unto the law of sin, which is in the members. And if you doubt whether they pain the soul or no, look but on their names or their effects, and you shall soon be out of doubt. Anger, disdain, despair, dislike, detestation, fear, sorrow, rag●…, fury for earthly things, can these be so much as conceived or named without evident impression or mention of pain? yea the fairest of our affections, and those which at first flarter us most, as love, desire, and pleasure. (I speak still of evil and unlawful) do they not quickly fail, sowerlie leave, and sharply vex with their remembrance and repentance the greatest seekers and owners of them? In all these worldly desires and delights S. Austin's rule is generally true. 
k August. decivitat. Dei. l. 21. cap. 26.  Quod sine illiciente amore non habuit, sine urente dolore non perdet. He that kept them not without alluring love, loseth them with afflicting grief. As for the intellective passions of the soul, which are the trembling at God's wrath, the fear of his power, and despair of his favour, besides the shame of sin, grief of heart, and horror of hell; what torments they breed in the condemned consciences of the wicked, the godly may partly judge, by that which they sometimes taste, notwithstanding their present recourse to the mercies and promises of God in Christ. So that evil affections, aswell intellective as sensitive, be punishments of sin, and painful to the soul; howsoever your cogitations (Sir Discourser) be otherwise humoured.  
Concerning the souls suffering from and with the body, which you say is common 
The souls suffering from and with the body is not common to beasts.  to us with beasts: if the soul do not consider for what cause, at whose hand, and to what end she suffereth; as also how she may be freed, and what thanks is due to her deliverer, she may be well likened to the Horse and Mule in whom is no understanding: but the brutish dullness of some earthly minded men, doth not make this kind of suffering not to be properly human, which God from the beginning did, and doth use to all his servants and saints (his own son not excepted); and whereby God worketh in all his children correction, probation, perfection, preparation to glory, which are things most proper to men, and no way communicable unto beasts. 
l Heb. 12.  God scourgeth every son whom he receiveth, and yet he useth him not like a beast. 
m 2. Tim. 3.  All that will live godly in Christ jesus shall suffer persecution, not common to them with beasts. 
n jam. 1.  Count it an exceeding joy (saith james) when you fall into divers temptations, knowing that the trial of your faith bringeth forth patience. Now to impart any of these things to beasts, were very strange Divinity. 
o Math. 5.  Blessed are they (saith our Saviour) that suffer persecution for righteousness sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Shall men be blessed, and enjoy God's kingdom for suffering as the beasts do? 
p 1. Pet. 4.  If any suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed. He that putteth no difference betwixt the sufferings of beasts and Christians, is unworthy to be a Christian. 
q 1. Pet. 5.  The same afflictions (saith Peter) are accomplished in your brethren, which are in the world. If you list (Sir Discourser) to take beasts for your brethren, you may make your sufferings like to theirs, or common to them; otherwise they that are men, and specially Christian men, must acknowledge that this kind of paining the soul by the body, is proper to men, and common neither to beasts, nor to devils. 
r 1. Cor. 10.  There hath no tentation taken you (saith Paul) but such as is human. What is human, but common to all men, and only to men; and so common neither to beasts, nor to any other creature, but proper to men? Take back therefore your vain imagination, and more foolish collection, that the suffering of the soul by her body is not properly human, because it is common to men with beasts, and learn hereafter that beasts having no soul, much less any graces or promises of God in this life or the next, can not communicate with men in that kind of suffering, which the soul feeleth from her body, and whereby she is chastised, proved, perfected in this life, and prepared for the glory of the life to come.  
[At least yet you think the souls immediate suffering from the hand of God alone, is the 
s Defenc. p 8. l. 37.  proper and principal human suffering.] If there be any such suffering of pain, as you imagine, from the immediate hand of God alone, it is the proper and principal suffering of devils, and not of men. For human properly it can not be, unless it touch the whole man, that is as well body as soul, whereof man consisteth. And therefore the r●…ll punishment of man's sin in earth and in hell, containeth the torments of both parts; without either of which, there is no proper, nor principal human suffering; though the soul after death be aff●…icted for a season till the body be raised and punished with he●…; which is the true human suffering for sin after this life, because it is everlastingly allotted to the wicked for sin, by the most righteous judgement of God. But how proo●…e you (Sir Discourser) that the soul of man suffereth sensible and absolute pain. I mean not depending on her own cogitations or actions, from the immediate hand of God? what Scripture, what example have you for it? It is the main mortar of your new erected hell; but tempered only with the water of your own wit; nor Scriptures, nor Fathers do acknowledge any 
No proof that God punish●…th immediately.  such kind of suffering in hell from the immediate hand of God as you affirm; yea they expressly avouch the contrary.  
From the hand of God without question is all power, and so all punishment, whether it be here, or in hell; he alone giveth force to each creature to pierce and punish; and he alone made the soul capable of pain from her body, from herself, and from whatsoever creature should please him to use for the punishment of the soul. Of this I make no doubt; the hand of God, which is the power of God, ordereth▪ strengtheneth, sharpeneth, continueth, and worketh, all pain and punishment both here and elsewhere, for the time and for ever; but whether he doth this by means likewise ordained and appointed by the same power, either within or without the soul, or by his immediate hand without all means, this is the question; and reading the Scriptures for this with as good attention as I could, I find no such thing affirmed in them, or proved by you in all your Discourse. Touching hell, I find the contrary confi●…med and avouched by the manifest and express words of the holy Ghost; and in the greatest plagues and punishments of this life, the means that God useth are likewise mentioned in the Scriptures: the immediate hand of God inflicting pain on the soul no where, that I read, or that you prove, which in so weighty a cause every wise man will expect at your hands, before he admit your metaphorical flames of a new found fire, devised by you for the Soul of Christ, to make it subject to the pains of hell.  
That God is the only giver of all grace, by the working of his holy Spirit in our hearts, without the assistance of any creature to further that action, may not be doubted of any Christian. 
t john 3.  A man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven; even from the Father of lights. (whence) 
u jam. 1.  cometh every good and perfect gift. For which cause the Scriptures call him, the 
x 1. Pet. 5.  God of all grace, working all in all; and his Spirit, the Spirit of grace, 
y 1. Cor. 12.  distributing to every man, as pleaseth him; and yet this division and operation of grace, which proceedeth most powerfully from God alone, is not always immediate, but dependeth on the hearing of the word, partaking of the Sacraments, and imposing of hands, which God useth as means not to help his power, but to direct and guide our weakness. Otherwise neither man nor Angel hath, or can have any power to touch and turn the heart, or to inspire it with grace, but only God, who made it and can alter and change it at his pleasure.  
As the giving, so the taking away of all good gifts pertaining either to the use of this life, as prudence, courage, magnanimity, and such like; or to the furtherance of the li●…e to come, as faith, hope, love, and other fruits of God's Spirit; depend wholly on God's will and work: and yet that is no let, but when God hath most justly deprived men of his grace, which should preserve them from evil, he may and doth leave the neglecters and abusers of his grace to be possessed and ruled by the spirit of 
z 1. john. 4.  error, 
a Zacl. ar. 13.  uncleanness, and 
b Esai. 19  giddiness, that 
c Ephes. 2.  worketh in the children of disobedience, and carrieth them headlong into all kind of mischief. Not that God performeth any of these things with his immediate hand, which are wicked and impious; but that by his just judgement he giveth them over, which despise and forsake him, to be a pray to the roaring Lion, that devoureth them. Neither is Satan to seek how to lead men destitute of grace, to all villainy both against themselves and others; since he can 
d 2. Cor. 4.  blind the minds of unbelievers, distract their 
e Mark 5.  wits, and inflame their hearts with all sorts of raging lusts, and untamed affections, as he did in Cain, Saul, Achitophel, judas; and daily doth in all the wicked.  
In the outward punishments of this life, where God turneth the fury and violence of his creatures to revenge sin; and the service of men, Angels, and devils, to pursue the wicked to their destruction, and to chastise his own to their conversion; the hand of God doth every where appear by the Scriptures, but that is nothing to your immediate suffering of the soul. For first in them God useth his creatures, as his agents and instruments; and where his immediate hand may happily be conceived to work without means, there he punisheth the soul by the body, which by your own position is not the proper and immediate suffering of the soul.  
In the fear, shame, and grief, which the soul here conceiveth upon the denouncing, convicting, or beholding of her own uncleanness, and the terrible judgements of God against sin; the power, truth and justice of God are evident, but not that immediate hand of God, which you imagine. For in this case God punisheth the soul by herself, that is, by her intellective or sensitive faculties, letting her plainly perceive, what joy is lost, and what vengeance is provided for all the workers of wickedness. The loss of which bliss, and terror of which vengeance apprehended by outward sense, or inward intelligence, cannot but mightily grieve and afflict the soul. And the greater the loss, that is irrevocable; as also the soarer the mischief that is inevitable, the deeper is the wound, that either of them make in the heart of man. But this fear and grief, whiles here men live, proceed from the cogitation and persuasion of the mind and conscience, and not from the immediate hand of God. And in the world to come the horror of hell and rage of fire, which God hath ordained to punish the soul, shall inflict an intolerable torment not rising from the minds and wills of the wicked, as in this world it doth, but impressed by an external and violent agent, which is the means that God hath prepared to execute vengeance on men and devils.  
How beit in none of all these appeareth that immediate suffering of the soul from the hand of God alone, which you so much talk of, and to which you would so feign subject the soul of Christ to make him suffer the substance of that, which the damned (according to your dream) do feel in hell. For in your conceit of the souls immediate suffering from the hand of God, the soul must only be a patient, and no agent; and God must inflict the pain on the soul with his own hand, and not by any means without or within the soul; only the soul must feel and discern the present and inherent pain by her passive power and faculty, by which she is capable of all pain, whence soever or howsoever it cometh. This kind of suffering you every where affirm, you no where prove; and that which is most absurd, you presume against the clear words of the holy Ghost continually naming the fire of hell, and threatening the wicked with it, to allegorize the Scriptures at your pleasure, and in stead of fire which God hath ordained and armed as a most dreadful means to take vengeance of sin, you suppose a certain pain, which God with his immediate hand will inflict on the souls of the damned, and that you make the substance of hell pains, and fasten it to the soul of Christ for the time, before he could work our redemption, or suffer the punishment of our sins. But sir Discourser this is rather dreaming then debating of matters of faith, to allegorize whatsoever standeth in your way, and in stead thereof to imagine what you please without either proof or pretence out of the word of God; as if your mouth were the rule of Religion, or the truth of God would vanish by your fantastical figures and shadows. Wherefore leave your devising and avouching what best liketh your unquiet humour in so weighty matters of man's Redemption, and tie your tongue if not your heart, to the words of the holy Ghost, that at least you may bear the show, if not the sense, of a Christian man. For I utterly deny that God is either the immediate tormentor of souls in hell, which is your idle and absurd imagination; or that with his immediate hand God did torment the soul of his Son at any time here on earth, as the souls of the damned are tormented in hell, which is your witless and wicked assertion.  
For proof you produce the words of ●…say affirming of Christ, that the Lord laid upon him the punishment of us all; but in this, as your manner is, you hit neither the words, nor the meaning of the Prophet. The word is HAAVAH to be crooked or to go a●…rie, and so by translation signifieth the crookedness o●… wickedness of man's life; which the Prophet testifieth was laid upon Christ in saying, 
f Esa. 53.  the Lord laid upon him the iniquity of us all. But grant it may sometimes by the joining of other words import any punishment allotted to wickedness; doth the Prophet say that God laid all the punishment due to sin upon Christ, or that God laid it upon the soul of Christ; both which you infer out of the Prophet's words, though neither be there expressed, or thence to be concluded? S. Peter will tell you on what part of Christ God laid our sins, even on his body. 
g 1. Pet. 2.  Himself bore our sins (saith Peter) in his body on the tree. Now where Christ did bear them, there God did lay them. Christ bore them in his body, as Peter affirmeth; God therefore laid our sins on his body, that by suffering death on the Cross, which was the wages of sin, Christ might make the purgation of our sins in his own person. Again, the sense which you would sow to the Prophet's words, that God laid upon him all our punishment, that is as you would have it, all the punishment which we should have suffered, is false and wicked. For so Christ must have suffered, rejection, desperation, and eternal damnation which the damned do suffer, and we should have suffered, had we not been redeemed. If you mean no more than the Scripture intendeth, that what Christ suffered for us in the body of his flesh on the Cross, was the full redemption and satisfaction for all our sins; then are you wide from concluding out of these words, that Christ suffered the pains of hell or the full vengeance due to our sin by the immediate hand of God, which is the chief point that you aim at. This is all the proof you offer out of the Scriptures for the immediate suffering of the soul of Christ from the hand of God; and what sturdy stuff this is, the rudest reader that lighteth on your pamphlet of Defence will soon conceive. If you keep this course in the rest of your positions, the world will soon be weary of your newfound fancies, if you be not of your manifest follies.  
[But Christ suffered (you say) the substance of hell-paines, though not the circumstances of place and time, which the damned do suffer; for they are not of the nature and essence of hell.] To make God the tormentor of Christ's soul here on earth with his immediate hand, and so of all the damned souls in hell, you brought us the words of the Prophet Esay, the Lord ●…ayd upon him the iniquity of us all: for this seraphical sequestration of the substance from the circumstances of hell, which mystery of iniquity you begin now to broach, what Prophet or Apostle can you produce? Dare you, Sir Discourser, out of the hazard of your own head, pull in pieces Gods settled, revealed, and eternal judgement against sin; and with the worm of your own wit wrest in sunder the substance of hell from the circumstance thereof? What will you not adventure in earth, that attempt this in hell? or what shall be free from your forge, that offer to make us a new essence and nature of hell, and heaven? If you can de●…se or intent to mingle your toys with God's truth, and with silly sleights of Sophistry, which you think Philosophy, sub●…ert main points of Divinity, your leisure is great, but your labour is lewd. In the secrets of the next world, none of the godly ever presumed to debate or determine any thing, specially touching hell or heaven, without the manifest precedence or sequence of holy Scripture. You had need therefore (Sir Deviser) to be well advised; it is no small presumption and intrusion against God's wisdom, power, and counsel, to elevate and frustrate the pains which he hath appointed for the wicked in hell, and to co●…e fresh and new in stead thereof, which God hath not ordained. I profess to all the world, I dare not depart from so often and earnest words of Christ himself, nor allegorize the sentence of the judge, which shall be pronounced on the reprobate both men and angels, and executed in the sight of all the elect, not by any figures and metaphors, but by the terror of the things themsel●…es matching the truth of the words, which Christ shall utter. And he 〈◊〉 I assure thee Christian Reader I ●…warue not either from the continual tenor of the Scriptures, nor from the full consent of Christ's church; howsoever this Deviser flat himself in his new invention. But let us trace him in his own path, and control him with the le●…ell of God's truth.  
What can be more substantial to any judgement or punishment than the sentence of the judge, and specially of such a judge, as with his will, word, and power decreeth, pronounceth, and setl●…th all things in heaven, earth, and hell? If then this judge in his sentence of condemnation appoint the PLACE and TIME to be parts of the punishmen●…s inflicted on the damned; tell us I pray you, why some parts of the sentence be mo●…e essential to the punishment than others? or why all being parts alike, they should not all be equally of the substance of the judgement? 
h Matth. 25.  Depart from me ye cursed unto everlasting fire, prepared FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS, is the sentence to be pronounced on all the wicked, that shall be damned. Of the continuance there can be no question, but here it is expressly mentioned, that it shallbe EVERLASTING. For the place, it is as plain by the witness of the Scripture, which maketh no fire everlasting but only hellfire. Our Saviour 
i Mark 9 vers. 43. 45.  twice in one chapter joineth the one as an exposition to the other; and thrice almost with one breath affirmeth everlasting fire to be the fire of hell. 
k vers. 44. 46. 48.  It is better to enter into life m●…imed than having two hands (or two feet) to be cast INTO HELI, INTO THE FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QVENCHED; WHERE their worm never dieth, AND THE FIRE NEVER GOETH OUT. No fire is everlasting, but only hellfire. Christ therefore in his sentence including the one, implieth the other as part of his judgement against the reprobate, and maketh both time and place essential parts in the punishment of the damned. And when he saith, DEPART from me ye cursed, forsomuch as there shallbe then no places left, but heaven for the blessed, and hell for the cursed, he doth not exclude them from the one, but by appointing them to the other. Besides, that fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels, is no where but in hell; and therefore adjudging them to that fire, he doth evidently adjudge them to hell fire. Since than no man is or shall be damned but only to hell, and that for ever; the place and continuance are express, and so essential parts of the judgement; and consequently of the punishment that is and shall be inflicted on all the damned. For the judgement which then shall be openly pronounced, is immutably decreed, and already revealed by the judge himself; and therefore unchangeable to all that a●…e or shallbe damned, and executed on that part of the wicked which is extant, I mean their souls assoon as they depart this life, though their bodies be yet in the dust, as afterward shallbe showed. Most vainly then and falsely do you slide between the substance and circumstance of hell-paines; since the name of hell-paines doth necessarily and naturally import the place of torment where those pains are, which is hell; and out of which place they are not: else might they be called aswell aerial or terrest●…iall pains, as hell pains, if they were found aswell in the air or on the earth, as in hell. But the Scripture hath resolved us there is a ●… place of 
l Luc. 16.  torment after this life, which is called hell, and the torments there so far exceed all the pains of this life, not only for perpetuity, but also for intolerable acerbity and gravity, that they are justly called hell-paines, as proper to the place where devils and damned persons shallbe punished with everlasting fire.  
And where you would seem out of the dregs of Philosophy to borrow the difference of the substance and circumstance of hell-paines, you understand not what you say. For even by the rules of Philosophy there are no circumstances in things perpetual and immutable. Circumstances must often vary, else are they no circumstances, if they be eternal and necessary consequents. Since than time and place do not alter in any of the damned; for all that are damned are cast into hell for ever, though all suffer not like pains; if there be any circumstances in hell, they are rather in the degrees and differences of pain, which you make the substance of hell, than in the place or perpetuity of the torment, which never vary in any of the damned. And since you will needs be meddling with Philosophy, I pray you Sir Discourser, if Christ suffered the substance of damnation as you avouch, doth not your doctrine plainly conclude the Saviour of the world to be damned? for, which shall truly attribute the name of any thing to any person, the substance or the circumstance of the thing? By all the rules of Art and reason, to whom the definition doth agree, the thing defined must likewise agree. Now each definition importeth the substance, not the circumstance of the thing defined. And so if Christ suffered the substance or damnation, it is evident by your doctrine he was damned; which is a corollar●…e in Christian religion fit for such a considerate Colonel as you are; I will say no worse. Yea such is your deep insight in these matters, that with turning and winding as a worm doth in wood, to make Ch●…st suffer the substance of those pains which the damned do suffer; you exclude him, against your own intention and assertion, from all both substance and ci●…cumstance of that, which the judge pronounceth and inflicteth on the damned. For where the sentence of the judge, Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire, containeth in it rejection from God's kingdom, malediction and torment of eternal fire, with their necessary consequents; Rejection and malediction Christ 
m deafen. p. 10. l. 29.  never tasted by your own confession. Continuance of time and place are as you say 
n Ibid. p. 12. l. 22.  mere circumstances only, and not agreeable to Christ; there remaineth then the fire of hell; which you allegorize, by no means acknowledging any TRUE sire in hell, for that you utterly deny. Now allegories are by no means the substance or essence of an●…e creature; and so you teach, Christ suffered the substance of all that the damned do suffer, save that he suffered as yourself confess, no part of that which Christ by his judicial sentence inflicteth on the damned; which is the substance of all that the damned do or shall suffer. Thus what Christ pronounceth on the damned you make circumstantial and allegorical; and what is no way comp●…ised in his sentence of condemnation, you make that only to be substantial and essential in hell-paines; let the Reader now judge whether this hell be not of your own framing, and not of Gods ordaining.  
This is folly sufficient by a vain distinction of substance and circumstance to exclude all that Christ pronunceth on the damned, from the substance of hell pains; but because it maketh an open gap to Atheism, to allegorize the greatest torments that God hath ordained for the wicked in hell, and to admit nothing for the substance thereof, save that which was common to Christ with the damned; which can be neither rejection, malediction, nor eternal torment of fire, since Christ suffered none of these, and yet (as you affirm) he suffered the substance of all that the damned do suffer; let us more largely consider what pains are essential to damnation, and to hell, not that hell which your running head hath lately hatched, but that which the word and will of God hath for ever established; as also whether there be true fire in hell or no; that we may the more plainly perceive what vanity and impiety you have adventured to make hell and so heaven to be every where as touching their substance; and the chiefest torments of hell to be imaginary pains devised and conceived by yourself and a few of your sect, without all warrant of holy Scripture, or witness of ancient and Christian believers. Wherein when I speak of substance and essence, thou must not think (gentle Reader) that I mean precisely matter and form, as Philosophers do, which bodies only have; I speak as a Divine, of rewards and punishments; in which that is most essential and substantial, which God hath ordained shallbe general and perpetual in either kind. Then that is essential to damnation or to the pains of hell reserved for the damned, which God by his word and will revealed, hath provided and established for all that shallbe damned, excepting or sparing none, but including them all in one and the same judgement. And if thou find by the word of God, that the place of hell and perpetual torment there, be necessarily and generally decreed and appointed for all the reprobate that shall be damned, make sure account that is essential to the punishment and pains of hell, which the will and word of God hath ordained and expressed shall inevitably and eternally pursue and punish the wicked. For Gods will and ordinance is most essential and substantial in all these things; and what he hath determined, and settled generally and eternally, without ceasing or changing to take hold on the wicked, that is the substance and essence of their punishment, and of hell-paines, which is their portion.  
In my Sermons I delivered many parts of hell-paines, which by no means could with any sense of religion be applied to Christ. The Discourser neither doth nor can deny them, but shifteth them off as either allegorical or not essential to the pains of hell. I shall therefore need but to examine whether they be figurative or proper speeches, as also whether they be essential or accidental to the condition and punishment of the damned; which I am content in order to do. Out of the sentence of the judge to be pronounced against all the reprobate, I observed four parts of hell-paines inflicted on all the damned; to wit, 
o Sermons. 〈◊〉. 50.  Rejection, malediction, vengeance of fire, and continuance therein for ever. Touching rejection and malediction, the Discourser plainly confesseth, that 
Defenc. p. 11 l 27.  in Christ there could utterly be none of these, as also neither 
q Ibid.  desperation, dereliction, nor sting of conscience. This confession I take to be ver●…e true, though it be neither agreeable to himself in other places, nor conformable to his general positions otherwise. But of that afterward. In the mean while, if rejection from all grace and glory, and extreme malediction of body and soul, be essential pains in hell, and punishments for sins; and Christ never tasted these; then Christ never suffered all that the damned do suffer, as touching the essence and substance thereof.  
And first of rejection from the kingdom of God, what say you, Sir Deviser, (for I 
Rejection from the kingdom of God: essential to hell pains.  may rightly so call you, that take upon you to devise us a new hell not heard of in the Scriptures) is it either no pain to the damned, or is it no essential part of their punishment, to be thrust out of the kingdom of heaven? The loss of good things, when they be perceived and desired, doth by nature no less grieve and asflict the soul of man, than the presence of evil doth offend him. All earthly creatures, as well as man, affect that which is good for them; and from the desire of good which is natural to all, it is not possible that man should be exempted: but as by sense and understanding he discerneth higher and better things than the rest, so this affection and inclination after he truly perceiveth or fully beholdeth them, is exceedingly inflamed with them; and when he findeth himself disappointed and deprived of them, his grief increaseth according to the goodness of the things, and greatness of his desire. The joy and honour then of the saints in the kingdom of God when the wicked shall presently behold, and see themselves rejected thence, they shall inwardly grieve with unspeakable sorrow, and outwardly mourn with gnashing their teeth for very anguish of heart, as perceiving themselves excluded from that inestimable bliss for ever. This collection our Saviour confirmeth in express words:  

r Luc. 13.  There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, Isaac, and jacob, and all the Prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out at doors. Yea where there are two sorts of pains in hell; Loss of heaven, and sense of evil; the learned and ancient Fathers have professed the former, to be a greater and grievouser pain than the latter. 
s Ad Theodoru lapsum epist. 5.  There are some (saith chrysostom) of an absurd judgement, who only desire to escape hell: contra ego, multo durius esse tormentum quoddam assero, quam gehenna est: hoc est, non assecutum esse tantam gloriam, & illinc elapsum esse. But I on the contrary a●…firme there is a far worse torment than hell itself is, to wit, the loss of so great glory, and the falling therefrom. Neither do I think that we ought so much to grieve at the evils in hell, as at the loss whereby we fall from heaven, qui nimirum est cruciatus omnium durissimus, which doubtless is the bitterest anguish of all the rest. S. Austen in like sort: 
t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. ad 〈◊〉. cap. 112.  To perish from the kingdom of God, to be banished from the city of God, to want so plentiful abundance of the sweetness of God, as he hath laid up in store for those that fear him, tam grandis est p●…a, ut ei nulla possint tormenta quae novimus comparari, is so grievous a punishment, or pain, that no torments which we know may be compared unto it. Nazianzen. 
u De plaga gran●…inis.  Those (that rise to judgement) this amongst other, or rather ABOVE other punishments shall torment them, that they are rejected of God. And Basil. 
x De regulis fu●… disputat. interroga●… 2.  The estranging and rejecting from God, is an evil more intolerable, than all that is (feared or) expected in hell. If the grief shall be so great to be excluded from the kingdom of God, and the same be comprised in the sentence of the judge, where he saith, Depart from me ye cursed; then is there no doubt but it is an essential part of the pains of hell: since it is not only general and perpetual to all the damned; but a necessary precedent to the rest of their torments, which can neither take full hold of them, nor afllict them in the highest degree, till they be wholly deprived of all consolation and expectation of any favour from God, and utterly confounded with the grief and shame of that re●…ection which they shall suffer at the hands of Christ before men and Angels.  
Malediction, the second part of the judicial sentence against the wicked, noteth 
Malediction 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 pain●…s.  as well the cause of their condemnation to be sin, for which only, both men and Angels are accursed; as the sequels of sin in the condemned, whom this curse excludeth from all sense and hope of God's blessings, eternal and temporal for ever; and wrappeth in the fearful remembering and feeling the number and horror of their offences, that before flattered, delighted, and encouraged themselves in their wickedness. For where shame, sorrow, and fe●…re are by God's wisdom and truth appointed as waiting mates on sin, and offered to the consciences of all men, to stay them from sin, or lead them to repentance when they have sinned, if they do not harden their hearts; the wicked to take their full forth in their uncleanness, cast these behind them, and not only conceal and excuse their sins, but quench all reverence and remembrance of God, lest any thing should hold or hinder them from their pleasures. And therefore the justice of God arising to take final vengeance of their rebellion against him, causeth extreme and inward shame, remorse and fear, which they so much shunned, when they might have repent, and desisted from their evil ways, most dreadfully to invade them, and as mighty streams to overwhelm them, till they sink to the bottom of all confusion, compunction and desperation. Which is a most just reward of their dalliance with God, and yet a most painful torment to the damned, who in their life time wilfully renounced God, to enjoy their delights; but there and for ever after shall without remedy or mercy behold the loathsomeness of their sins, and grieve at the folly and fury of their disobedience; God punishing the soul of every such transgressor with the remembrance and remorse of his madness, with the evidence and conscience of his uncleanness, and with the sight and assurance of his perpetual wretchedness.  

.  Quae p●…na gravior quam interioris vulnus conscientiae? What pain more grievous, (saith Ambrose) than the wound of the conscience within? 
z .  Amongst all the afflictions of man's soul, there is none greater, (saith Austen) than the conscience of sin. 
a .  How thinkest thou (saith chrysostom) shall our consciences be bitten? and is not this worse than any torment what soever? 
b Basil. in Psalmum. 33.  The most grievous torment of all (saith Basil) shall be that reproach and eternal shame. 
c Cyprian de Ascens. Domini.  Omni tormento atrociùs desperatio condemnatos affliget. Worse than all other torments shall desperation afflict the condemned. 
d Lamentat. 3.  Give them grief of heart, even thy curse upon them, saith jeremy to God. No doubt then the sting of conscience and shame of sin, which so extremely shall grieve the heart, is a part of that eternal curse, which shall light on the wicked; and so painful and grievous shall it be unto them, that they shall curse the day of their birth, time of their life, and all the works of their hands, that occasioned or leasured them to come within the compass of this fearful and everlasting curse. 
e Hier●…. lib. 6. in Esa. cap. 13.  Torments and sorrows shall take hold on them (in the day of judgement or of death) and they shall be pained as a woman in labour with child. By which it appeareth (saith Jerome) they are tormented with their own conscience. 
f Pamphil●… apolog. pro origen.  Tunc & ipsa conscientia proprijs stimulis agitatur atque compungitur. Then the very conscience (of the wicked) is pricked and pierced with her own goads and stings. 
g August. in Psal. 53.  Magna paena est impiorum conscientia. The conscience of the wicked, is a great pain or punishment unto them.  
You did well utterly to exempt the Saviour of the world from both these, I mean from rejection and malediction; you must otherwise have deprived him of all grace and glory; and plunged him into the shame of sin, and remorse of conscience; neither of which without open impiety, can be ascribed to the soul of Christ: and yet both these are essential paincs to the damned, and not circumstances, as you pretend of time and place. How painful they are, I leave the Reader to consider by that which is already said; essential they cannot choose but be to damnation and hell, not only because they are comprised in the sentence of the judge, which is the substance of condemnation, but also for that the rest of hell pains are not inflicted till both these take hold on the souls of men. For so long as men have any part or hope of heaven, they are not condemned to hell, neither shall the final judgement of God proceed against any, till their own consciences do first convict them and condemn them. And therefore as in Christ's sentence, rejection, and malediction stand before the rest, so in performance they must take place before eternal torment of fire shall follow. God's judgement being certainly just, shall be without all contradiction even in the consciences of the condemned, who then shall be their own accusers: and as hell hath no communion with heaven, no more can a man be adjudged to hell, but he must first be excluded from the possession and expectation of all heavenly joy and bliss. I speak of the order and coherence of the punishments, not of any long distance of time between them; forsomuch as that judgement shallbe as quickly executed, as pronounced.  
The torment of fire is the third part of this iudgemen●…, which I make no question, but you will acknowledge to be an essential pain of hell, whatsoever you intent by the name of fire. For if this also be accidental to damnation, I marvel much what is substantial. But you are content to admit this for the substance of hell pains, so you may allegorize it, and make thereof what best fitteth your fancy. Then if Christ suffered not the torment of hell fire so much threatened to the wicked in the Scriptures, and inflicted on the damned by Christ's sentence; it is very plain he suffered no part of the substance of hell pains; unless your learning serve you to say, that when Christ cometh to give judgement against all the damned, he shall utterly forget and mistake himself, and in stead of the substance of hell pains, pronounce only the circumstances thereof against the reprobate both men and Angels. Here therefore is the place to examine whether the fire of hell be allegorical, or no; for that it is essential to the pains of hell, can be (no doubt) with any but with Atheists, and Infidels, which know not God, since it is named by Christ as a chief punishment, prepared for the devil and his Angels. Wherein I wish thee (gentle Reader) advisedly to mark what is said on either side, it is a matter of no small moment both to Christian religion and true godliness, whether it shall be lawful for every unstable wit, at his pleasure to allegorize whatsoever liketh not his humour in the sacred Scriptures. For if the small and eternal judgement of God against the wicked be allegorical; then surely the reward of the faithful from the same judge at the same time must likewise be allegorical. And if we once bring all that is threatened and promised in the world to come to be figures and allegories, we endanger the power, and justice of God, which must openly appear to all the world in the punishment of sin, (if he be a God: and displeased and offended with sin) as also his mercy, bounty and glory, in crowning his elect, to be nothing but types and figures. The end of all things, which is the time of judgement must openly and fully perform whatsoever God in this life threateneth or promiseth: and if that day do not plainly distinguish between righteousness and unrighteousness, the elect and the reprobate, and show a most sensible difference betwixt the kingdom of heaven and the torments of hell; to the view of men and Angels without figures or allegories, no time after is, or ever shallbe appointed for that purpose.  
The first reason which leadeth me to believe the fire of hell to to be a true, substantial, and external fire, and no allegory, is that, which is and must be the ground of all Religion, to wit, the proper signification of the word threatened in the Scriptures to the wicked, and by Christ inflicted on the damned. Otherwise if we hold not fast this rule, not to run to figures in expounding the Scriptures, except the proper signification of the words in any place be 
h August. de d●…ct. Christia. lib. 3. cap. 10.  against the truth of faith, or honesty of manners, we shall leave nothing sound or assured in the word of God. For 
i August. ibid.  when the mind is possessed with any error, whatsoever the Scriptures avouch to the contrary, men think it to be figurative; as S. Austen rightly observeth. Yourself approve this rule, when it maketh any thing for you: your words are: 
k Defenc. pa. 109. l. 8.  I like well that no figure is to be admitted in Scripture, where there is no ill or hurtful sense following literally. Now that external and substantial fire is denounced to the wicked in the Scriptures, and shall accordingly torment the damned in hell, what injury is it to the Christian faith, or what repugnance hath it with the rest of the Scriptures? We do and must believe that Christ shall come to judge the quick and dead; and with his own mouth shall openly adjudge the reprobate to 
l Matth. 25.  everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. What necessity then is there to allegorize this fire? It is impossible, you think, for souls and devils, which are spirits, to be punished with external and corporal fire; and therefore the fire in your conceit must be figurative. Shall it be impossible to God, when he speaketh the word, to perform the deed; or is it too hard for you to conceive the manner how it shall be done? I trust you take not upon you to restrain the marvels of God's works to the reach of your wits, or to measure the greatness of his arm by the weakness of your hand. How many thousand things are there in the creation, conservation, and alteration of the world; in the air, in the earth, and every part thereof, which are daily before our eyes, and yet far pass our understanding? To tie God's truth and glory to your capacity, were mad divinity; to make any thing unpossible for him, which his mouth hath spoken, were mere infidelity. He that created spirits of nothing can as easily make them capable of pain and punishment from fire, or whatsoever mean pleaseth him to use. But fire he hath threatened unto men and devils. By fire therefore shall they be tormented, which his hand that is Almighty, and his mouth that is all true, shall perform in the sight of all the world.  
A second reason is, that Christ shall pronounce these words in judgement, where the guilty must perceive, what is their doom; the ministers must know, what they shall execute; and the elect must discern what they are to approve. Now allegories are exactly known only to the speaker; the hearers, except they can search the heart, can not certainly know the meaning of figures and parables till they be expounded. Christ's judgement therefore shall be plain and proper, and contain nothing in it that any way may hinder the present and evident conception, execution, or approbation of it. The end and use of parables, which are allegorical similitudes, ou●… Saviour confessed when his disciples asked him, 
m Matth. 13.  Why speakest thou to them in parables. Who answered: because it is given to you to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 
n Mark. 4.  To them that are without, all things are done in parables, that seeing they may see and not discern, and hearing they may hear and not understand. Then serve parables and allegories, which are both one, to hide the meaning of the speaker; and to darken the understanding of the hearer. But the judgement of Christ hath clean contrary purposes; and must have plain and proper speech, that the whole world may hear it with their ears, understand it with their hearts, and see it executed with their eyes. For how should allegories or metaphors be executed by God's Angels, who shall be the ministers in that judgement? or how shall all the elect concur with Christ in judgement, if he use metaphors and allegories known only to himself? It is evident therefore the general and final sentence by which the wicked shall be adjudged to everlasting fire, must have in it no figures nor allegories, but only plain and proper speech, which must be heard and understood of all good and bad, and be presently put in execution by the ministers that attend that judgement.  
A third is, that where parables by reason of their darkness must be expounded before they can be conceived; when Christ doth declare the meaning of them, his exposition of necessity must be in plain and proper words, lest a dark and doubtful exposition breed a further confusion in the minds of the hearers, than the parable itself. The parable of the good seed sowed by the owner of the ground; and of tars sowed by the enemy; as also of the harvest and reapers; when the Disciples of Christ prayed him to declare unto them; he expounded it in these words: 
o Matth. 13. vers. 37.  The sour of the good seed is the son of man, the field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; the tars are the children of the wicked; the enemy that soweth them, is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the Reapers be the Angels. As then the tars are gathered and burned in the fire, so shall it be in the end of the world. The Son of man shall send forth his Angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all offences and the workers of iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire, there shallbe wailing and gnashing of teeth. And upon occasion of the parable of the draw-net cast into the sea, and gathering all kinds of men, and after severing the good from the bad; our Saviour repeating the same exposition in the same words (So shall it be in the end of the world; the angels shall go forth, and sever the bad from among the just, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire) said to his Disciples, 
p Ibid. ver. 51.  Understand ye all these things? and they said to him, Yea Lord. The parable they understood not, but this they understood. The fire therefore into which the wicked shall be cast, is no parabolical, but a plain and proper speech. Again, Christ expoundeth the parable by it: it is therefore no allegory, but a true and proper speech by which Christ opened the obscurity of the parable; and his Disciples presently conceived his meaning by the propriety and perspicuity of his words. Then, that 
* Matth. 13.  the Angels of God in the end of the world shall sever the wicked; and cast them into a furnace of fire, is an evident, plain, and proper speech, easy to be understood of every Christian by the very hearing of the words uttered, without recourse to you Sir Deviser to help allegorize them; or to bring in stead of them the immediate souls suffering, which you still avouch, but never take the pains to prove, or use the means to unfold.  
Fourthly, your new conceit hath no coherence with the sense or words of the Holy ghost; but either he must correct his speech, wheresoever he mentioneth the fire of hell, or you must recall your fancy, who suppose an inward pain in the soul from the immediate hand of God to be hell fire. For if that which you call hell fire be only within the souls of the wicked, how can they DEPART, GO, or BE CASTANNA INTO HELL FIRE, which by your imagination is cast into them, & not they into it? And therefore when our Saviour so often affirmeth, that the wicked shall be cast into hell fire, and judicially willeth them to depart from him into everlasting fire; you must set him to school, and teach him to speak righter, and according to your opinion, to say, that hell fire shallbe cast into them. But if these be fooleries most unfit for any Christian man, to control the son of God in his speech, and to condemn him of open and childish ignorance, as not knowing the difference betwixt an external and internal fire; then learn to reverence the verity and gravity of the word of God, and to confess that he which seeth and settleth all things in heaven, earth, and hell, cannot so forget himself as to mistake the one for the other. For if the fire be a violent, external, and local agent into which the wicked shallbe cast; then are the words of our Saviour and of the Prophets and Apostles most proper and pertinent to the matter: but if that fire which shall torment the damned, be nothing but an internal pain rising within the soul by the immediate hand of God; then are all the speeches of the Holy ghost, expressing their punishment, wide from the sense, and dissonant from the truth of that which you suppose they would deliver. David describing the vengeance that God at the last will execute on the wicked, saith, 
q Psal. 11.  Upon the wicked God will rain snares, fire, and brimstone. This raining upon them, showeth that the means and matter of their torment shall be without them; and not an anguish only rising within them, as you imagine of hell fire. 
r revel. 20.  The devil that deceived them, was cast (saith S. john) into a lake of fire and brimstone; and whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the lake of fire. The Holy ghost by your direction must have said, the lake of fire was cast into the devil, and into every one that was not found written in the book of life. 
s Mark 9  It is better (saith our Saviour) to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched. Our Saviour by your doctrine is not well advised so to speak, when he should have said, It is better to enter into life maimed, than hell fire to go into you. And when Christ foretelleth that the Angels shall sever the bad, and cast them into a furnace of fire; he committeth two great oversights by your new Divinity: the first in saying, the Angels shall cast the bad into a furnace of fire; where indeed by your device the furnace of fire shallbe cast into the bad: the next in that he saith, the Angels shall cast them into the fire; which hath no truth in it, if the souls of the wicked inwardly suffer from the immediate hand of God alone, as you teach. For how do the Angels cast the wicked into the fire, when the immediate hand of God inflicteth that, which you call hell fire, on the soul without any instruments or inferior means? These mockeries you must make of the Scriptures, before they will serve your new conceit, that hell fire is an allegory, and importeth nothing but a pain raised within the soul by the immediate hand of God alone; which what agreement it hath with the doctrine and descriptions of the Holy ghost, I leave the Christian Reader to consider.  
Fiftly, the word Gehenna, which Christ authorised in the new testament to signify hell, hath no just representation of hell, if there be no substantial and external fire in hell. For where anciently the children of judah 
t jerem. 7.  built the place of Topheth in the valley of the son of Hinnom to burn their sons & daughters in the fire 
u 2. Reg. 23.  unto Molech; which valley the eighteenth of joshua placeth 
x joshua. 18. vers. 16.  near to jebusi (that was afterward jerusalem) and calleth Gehinnom: and the chief council of jerusalem, whiles their power lasted, used to punish certain offences with fire in the same valley lying near to their city: Our Lord and Master either taking the word that was usual among the people in his time to import hell, and establishing it with his authority; or resembling hell to the place of tormenting & burning malefactors with fire so well known to the jews, nameth it Gihanna in Syriack; which the Hebrues call Gehinnam, the Evangelists 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and the Latins Gehenna. In this application of the word, that the one might fitly resemble the other, three things were chiefly respected, as Peter Martyr rightly observeth upon the second chapter of the second book of Kings. First that being a 
y Pet. Martyr. in 2. cap. 2. lib. Regum.  valley, to wit, a low bottom, it resembled hell, which is believed to be beneath the earth. Secondly, for the fire, wherewith the wicked are tormented (in hell) even as the children were in that valley burnt with fire. Lastly, the place was unclean and detestable, whither all vile and loathsome things were cast out of the city of jerusalem, even as defiled and wicked souls are cast out of the kingdom of heaven into hell. And howsoever you may quarrel with the first and last respects, because you think them not Canonical, though I find them grounded on the Scriptures, if that were to this present purpose: the second is without contradiction the main reason why our Saviour took the word Gehenna to represent hell, and is expressed by himself when so often in the Gospel he addeth fire to the word Gehenna, and expoundeth the one by the other, that is, Gehenna by unquenchable fire. 
z Matth. 5.  Whosoever shall say fool (to his brother) shallbe worthy of the gehenna of fire, that is, of the vale of fire, or of hell. And again, 
a Matth. 18.  It is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into the gehenna of fire, which is the vale or lake of fire, and hell fire. In the Gospel written by S. Mark Christ joineth the one as an explication to the other. It 
b Mark. 9  is better to go halting into life than having two feet to be cast into GEHENNA, into the fire that never shallbe quenched. So that the resemblance of true fire in either place, painful to the sufferer and dreadful to the beholder, was the chief respect, why our Saviour allowed GEHENNA in the new Testament to signify hell, and consequently doth assure us there is true fire in hell. For if hell have no fi e in it besides an inward and inherent pain of body or soul, as we see in all violent and burning diseases, Christ might more fitly have resembled hell to any sharp and sore sicknes●…e, than to an external and sensible fire, which can have no reference to hell, if the torments there be only spiritual and internal.  
These reasons lead me to r●…solue and believe, that the fire of hell so much threatened to ●…he wicked in the Scriptures and inflicted on the damned, shall be a true, visible, and external fire; wherein lest thou shouldest think, Christian Reader, I rest too much on mine own opinion, as this D●…scourser doth in all things on his; I am content to let thee see, that the Ancient and Catholic Fathers of Christ's Church have constantly professed as much before me, and condemned the Discoursers conceit as an open error repugnant to the Scriptures, and hurtful to the Christian faith. I have already produced the testimonies of so many Fathers in the 
c Pag. 342.  conclusion of my Sermons touching this point (the writers being of the greatest learning and account in the Church of Christ) as may satisfy the ●…ober, and stumble the froward; thei●… judgement concurring with the manifest words of holy Scripture: yet because this Discou●…ser lightly regardeth their concents, & vainly shifteth off their proofs, let us hear and examine his answer to their assertions.  
The Fathers by me cited, were Austen, Ambrose, chrysostom, Eusebius, Tertullian, Lact●…ntius, Cyprian, Minutius, Pacianus, and Gregory, besides the words of Sibylla, which many of those Fathe●…s accept and allege as proceeding from God to witness the truth and terror of his general judgement to all the world, and agreeing with the tenor of holy Scripture. His answer beginneth and endeth in this wise; 
d Defenc. pag. 146. l. 25.  You set your s●…lfe to prove that in hell there is material fire. But it seemeth you are now almost afraid so to call it: yet you call it true fire, which also we utterly deny. All your proofs, (such as they ar●…) run to prove corporal and material fire yet eternal, except your Scriptures, which utterly prove nothing at all. 
* Defenc. pag. 147. l. 8.  And me thinks you should not care for corpor●…ll fire now in hell, seeing you seem to believe no torments for damned souls, save on lie at the resurr●…ction. For thus you reason, as the body hath been the instrument of the soul's pleasure in sin, so it shall be of her pain. But all provocations and pleasures of sin, the soul taketh from her body, all acts of sin she committeth by her body. Therefore the justice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soul (ONLY) by the body: Or therefore all the soul's pain for sin, both temporally and eternally is by the body. This is your own reason: which being true, why should you care for corporal fire in hell, before the last iudgem●…nt?  
You begin and end with two notorious untruths and falsifications of my words; that at least you may make others believe, there is some likelihood in yours, when I dare not stand by mine, but am either afraid of them, or conclude directly against them. Do I set myself to prove, that in hell there is material fire; and yet am I now almost afraid so to call it? It is your wont (Sir Discourser) not mine, to take up terms that may be turned every way, and to plant your chief strength upon the doubtfulness of their Signification. Do I any where apply the word material to hell fire? or do any of the places which I cite, so call it? If they do, name them; if not, how set I myself to prove material fire in hell, without any words or proofs sounding that way? Know you my meaning without my words? or do you boldly presume of my meaning against my words? If by material fire, you mean that which is maintained by wood or by such like matter as nourisheth fire, and without the which fire will quench; (for that is one of your chiefest objections which you say is unanswered:) then do the places which I bring plainly prove that hell fire is not material. For Lactantius saith of it; 
e Conclus. pa. 346.  It burneth of itself without any nourishment. And Gregory; 
f Ibid. pag. 345.  It is neither kindled with man's industry, nor nourished with wood; but contrary to the nature of our fire, it consumeth not what it burneth, but rather repaireth what it eateth, as Tertullian saith of it. So that neither my positions nor probations gave you any cause to conjecture I meant your material fire. The places produced by me express the contrary: and mine own words are; 
g Ibid. pag. 343.  S. Austen long since hath plainly resolved, the fire of hell is not only a true fire, which were my words, but a corporal fire, that shall punish both men and devils. And closing I make it 
h Ibid. pag. 348.  a point of Christian doctrine delivered by the Prophets and Apostles, and received by the Fathers of all ages in Christ's church, that the fire of hell shall be visible and sensible to the bodies of the wicked, and shall eternally and corporally punish the damned according to their deserts. It was therefore your foolish objection, that hell fire must be material, if it be not allegorical according as you dream; it was no resolution of mine, nor so much as mentioned by me. I saw the ambiguity of the word well enough, and for that cause did refrain it from the beginning For though material may be that which consisteth of matter and form, and so all things that are corporal, as the wind, the air, the heavens are likewise material; yet in our vulgar speech and understanding, to which I framed myself, that is material fire which is nourished with some MATTER apt to burn and consume; and in that sense hell fire is no material fire.  
The end of your answer in this place is far worse than your entrance: for there 
The Defender grossly perverteth my words.  you wittingly and wilfully pervert my words by adding ONLY and ALL unto them, directly against my meaning; yea when I openly admonish the Reader to the contrary. I inferred by occasion of former proofs; therefore the justice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soul by the body: which words are most evidently true, since in this life without all question the soul is punished by the body; and after judgement the body being cast into hell fire, shall eternally afflict the soul. My words then bearing in them a manifest truth, you take the pains, by interlacing them, to wrest them to an open falsehood: for you make me say: Therefore the justice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soul ONLY by the body. Now this is as false, as the former was true: for God in this life doth often punish the soul by herself; and until the last day it is as certain the souls of the wicked departed hence are punished without their bodies; which so long lie dead in the dust of the earth. What conscience this is (for nothing in you must be impudence, though it be never so shameless) of an evident truth to make a palpable error, by adding (ONLY) to my words, which I carefully and purposely did avoid, let the Reader judge.  
But the proposition inducing this conclusion you will say is general; to wit, all provocations and pleasures of sin the soul taketh from her body, all acts of sin she committeth by her body; the conclusion thereof you think should be likewise general: therefore ALL the soul's pains for sin both temporally and eternally is by the body. Your thoughts (Sir Discourser) bewray your own folly, they must not marshal my reasons; I can express mine intent without your help. Out of a general assumption what Art hindereth me to avouch an indefinite and particular conclusion; especially when I meddle with God's matters, whose power and will in judgement no rules of reason can bind or limit? And if I would needs express the form of a syllogism (as you vainly imagine I meant to do in these words) I never learned out of a negative for the mayor, to draw an affirmative for the conclusion: but had not your eyes stood in your light, it was easy for you to have seen both what the conclusion must be by force of the premises; and how in respect of him that is all-iust and yet almighty, I thought not good to restrain him to my conclusions, but to infer in stead thereof, that which sufficiently depended on the conclusion, and could have no question either in holy writ, or daily use. Both the premises are orderly and plainly set down in my writing, and not loosely and ignorantly misplaced, as yours are, by putting the cart before the horse, and taking that for the mayor which with me is a part or appendix of the conclusion. My words stand thus: 
i Conclus. pa. 254. l. 29.  Nothing is more proportionable to God's justice, than to join them in pain that were joined in sin; and to retain the same order in punishing, which they kept in offending. But all provocations and pleasures of sin the soul taketh from the body, all acts of sin she committeth by the body. What boy now knowing the first principles of Logic doth not presently perceive the conclusion must be; therefore nothing is more proportionable to God's justice than both temporally and eternally to join body and soul in pain which were joined in sin; and to make the body the instrument of her pain, as it hath been of her pleasure. This conclusion is an universal negative; and yet doth not exclude all pain of the soul without the body to be unagreeable to God's justice, as you pretend I mean; but avoucheth no pain to be more agreeable, than where body and soul are both joined in suffering, as they were in offending. And because no punishment is more agreeable to God's justice, than where both soul and body are coupled in pain, as they were in sin; though it be no way against God's justice to punish the soul for a season without the body: 
k Ibidem.  Therefore (which is the inference that I use) the justice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soul by the body, that as it hath been the instrument of her pleasure, so it shallbe of her pain. You affirm, not only my meaning, but my reason to be this; that God temporally and eternally punisheth the soul (ONLY) by the body. I utterly deny that I have any such reason, words, or sense; but that you purposely have inserted the word (ONLY) of your own, to make my reason seem false and foolish; which otherwise is sound and sure.  
You mistook (you will say) my meaning; you did it not of malice. Your mistake (Sir Discourser) are indeed very gross, as shall well appear, when we come to your fairest forts; but in this (by your leave) you could not mistake me, except you were bereaved of your wits and senses. I not only provided that my words should import no such thing, as you dream of; but to clear all cavils, when I had made some proof out of Cyprian, jerom, and Tertullian, for the second proposition of my reason, I moved the question myself, and answered it, with as plain and precise a denial as I could devise to utter. These are my words: 
l Conclus. pa. 257. l. 12.  Do I then deny that the soul hath any sufferings in this life & the next, which come not by the body? BY NO MEANS. For though those conjoined sufferings be most answerable to sins committed; yet the soul hath some proper punishments in this life, as sorrow, and fear, when the body hath no hurt: from which Christ was not free, as appear by his agony: and so in the next, the souls of the wicked have grief and remorse, besides the pain of fire. These punishments in this world and the next, the soul suffereth, not by her body, nor from her body: how then should I mean that God temporally and eternally punisheth the soul (ONLY) by the body, or that (ALL) the soul's pain for sin is from the body, as you make me to speak, both without and against mine own words? Whether this dealing savour of unshamefastness, or no, judge thou Christian Reader, as thou seest cause. The manner of the Discoursers carriage in the entering and ending of his answer, I might not omit. Now to his matter.  
The midst of his answer is a medley meet for a man of his learning and judgement; the sum of it is this: 
m Defene. pag. 146. l. 25.  All my proofs (out of the Fathers) run to prove corporal and material fire, except the Scriptures (by me alleged) which utterly prove nothing at all. For his part he seeth no reason to believe, that now there is corporal fire in hell (which is only our question or else nothing) whatsoever shallbe hereafter, when the bodies shallbe tormented with their souls. Lastly, Austen here doth not prove there shallbe such sire (after the resurrection) be only showeth the manner how it may be so hereafter, if God will. Now if the power of God only be all our reason, we may as well prove the sky is fallen. All the rest of the Fathers say nothing further, nor indeed, so far as Austen. Whether ten ancient writers, all Christian and Catholic fathers, relying themselves on the manifest words of holy Scripture, and joining in one confession of the truth, be not more to be trusted and better believed than H. I. of Paul's Chain, let the poorest prentice in London judge. As for the Scriptures; if you Sir Deviser and such other busy heads may allegorize them, when they contradict your humours, from Genesis to the Apocalypsis, they shall utterly prove nothing at all against you: for what is there in them which you may not pervert with your fancies and figures, if nothing shall be plain and proper that any way seemeth unsavoury to your reason? The Fathers have for that which they affirm, the exact and evident words of holy Scripture, and not so few as Twenty Places of the New Testament witnessing, without any parables or allegories, fire to be threatened and performed to the wicked in the world to come. Whereupon with one consent they have all resolved and professed it as a settled ground of Christian religion; that hell fire, to which Christ shall adjudge the wicked at the last day, shallbe a true, external, and sensible fire; I mean seen and felt of all the reprobate in their souls and bodies. To this our new Patriarch of Paternoster Rew answereth: 
n Defenc. pa. 146. l. 37.  Austen doth not prove there shallbe such a fire; he only showeth the manner how it may be so hereafter, if God will. Now if God's power only be all our reason, we may prove aswell the sky is fallen. Gentle Sir, if so many vouchers from Christ's own mouth and from his Apostles following their master's steps, be no proof with you, nor sufficient witness of God's will, you have some advantage against S. Austen and all the rest of the Fathers for presuming upon God's power without the knowledge of his will: but if those proofs be more than pregnant, then look to your allegories, lest they prove you to be a proud presumer against the Scriptures, and an arrogant despiser of the Fathers, where they accord with the word and will of God. It is not enough for you (Sir Deviser) to rouse yourself, and say YOU SEE NO REASON; you must take the pains to yield good reason why you depart from the literal and proper signification of the words uttered by the son of God. And since you can pretend none but want of power in God to perform the words which he hath spoken in their proper sense; all the godly will see great reason to refuse your fancies and figures, as idle shifts to decline the clearness of the sacred Scriptures.  
The Scriptures you say 
o Defence pa. 146.  show no more any corporal, or material, or true fire to be now in hell, than a corporal worm, material brimstone, much wood, and true chains: which I 
What is meant by the worm that never dieth.  called a sleeveless objection; but neither I, nor Austen whom I cite against it, doth any where answer it.] Of the worm mentioned in Christ's words (their worm never dieth) I showed you S. Austin's judgement, which might content a far greater Clerk than you. Neither is he alone in that opinion. Gregory Nyssene saith, 
p Nyssenus de resurrectione Christ's.  I hear the Scripture affirm, that the damned shallbe punished with a fire, darkness, and worm; quae omnia compositorum ac materialium corporum, poenae cruciatúsque sunt; all which are the punishments and torments of material and compounded bodies. Basil delivering what terrors shall be presented to the eyes of the damned in the day of judgement; amongst other things nameth a 
q Basil in Psal. 33.  darkish fire, that hath lost his brightness, but kept his burning; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and a venomous kind of worm feeding on flesh, and raising intolerable torments with his biting. josephus a jew living in the Apostles times, and no stranger to the Christian faith, in his oration to the Greeks, (which Damascene doth mention, and Zonaras doth cite) speaking of the final judgement of God to be executed by the person of the Messias, saith, 
r Zonara's na●…um ●…om. 1. fol. 191.  There remaineth for the lovers of wickedness an unquenchable and never ending fire, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and a fiery worm not dying, nor destroying the body, but breaking forth of the body with unceasing anguish. Howbeit, because 
s August. de civit. Dei. l. 21. ca 9  S. Austen leaveth it indifferent for every man to refer the WORM properly to the body, or figuratively to the mind, as he liketh best; so that by no means he think the bodies in hell shall not be touched with the pain of fire; I left it likewise free for every man to make his choice, and saw no need of farther answer. 
* *  Touching brimstone, you may jest at S. john if you list, who saith of the wicked, they shall be 
t revel. 14.  tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy Angels, and before the Lamb; and likewise of the devil, that he 
u revel. 20.  was cast into a lake of fire and brimstone: or if you please, you may oppose God himself, and ask whether material brimstone were mixed with the fire which he reigned from heaven on Sodom and Gomorre, and why he powered them both on the heads of those wicked ones, as if fire alone were not sufficient to destroy them, who 
* Jude epist.  are set forth for an ensample, (by) suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. But howsoever you presume to alter or new frame the judgements of God after your fancies, when I read that God hath 
x Genes. 19  reigned brimstone and fire out of heaven on Sodom and the cities adjoining, and will 
y Psal. 11.  rain fire and brimstone upon the wicked, as David testifieth; I dare not allegorize either of them, because I reverence the word of God, which is his will; and by no means distrust his power. For if God will have brimstone mixed with hell fire to make it burn not only the darker and sharper, but also the lothsommer, and so to grieve the sight, smell and taste of the wicked, which have here surfeited with so many vain pleasures; what have you or any man living to say against it? yea rather, why teach you not men to tremble at the terror of God's judgements, who can and will so fully punish all the powers and parts of body and soul, with one and the same fire in hell?  
Your objection of true chains and much wood, I called sleeveless; in deed I should 
Chains there are in ●…ll though not of iron.  have called it witless; for but you, no man that would seem wise, ever did account it worth the objecting or answering. Who knoweth not that the names of artificial things applied to God's judgement or government, must not import with him as they do with us, things made or provided with men's hands; but the wonderful works and powerful acts of God, tending to the same end, for which these artificial things do serve with us? As when we read in the Scriptures, of God's sword, cup, bow, book, sootestoole, furnace, and such like: Is any man so foolish as to ask after the Cutler, Goldsmith, Fl●…tcher, Stationer, Carpenter, Mason that made those things for God; and not rather to look to the use of these things amongst men, and thence to collect the marvelous and manifest effects of God's power, justice, counsel, and providence determining and performing in this world and the next, what pleaseth him against men and Angels? The chains wherewith the devils are bound, Peter calleth the 
z 2. Pet. 2.  chains of darkness, not of metal which man can frame; and they note the inevitable subjection, and immutable condition of devils plunged in outward and inward darkness, malediction, and horror, whereby they are now 
a Pet. Ibid.  kept unto damnation, without any power to resist or decline the judgement, which shall be pronounced on them. That God hath a Smith to make Iron chains to bind the devil, or a fueller to cut and fetch wood for hell fire, lest it should fail; these were such merriments to be concluded out of Scripture, that if you find no vanity nor absurdity in them against the truth and glory of God, you may take the Legend or the Alcoran into your Creed, without any scruple of conscience: but if these things be more than sottish, then deserve your objections a worse name than I gave them.  
The Scriptures, you say, show no more any true fire in hell, then true chains and much wood. To suppose those things to be needful for hell, which are prepared by the hands of men; is a very wicked and wilful impiety. For so should hell fire quickly cease, which Christ hath said shall be everlasting. And that the Scriptures prove no more the truth of fire there then they do of wood, is an open, and arrogant untruth. For first all the Fathers of Christ's Church, and the soberest Divines of our time, are condemned by this insolent assertion, as ignorant and absurd teachers, who confess the truth of hell fire to be established by the Scriptures, which of wood they do not. Secondly, the words of Christ and his Apostles, are challenged to be false. For they in plain speech affirm fire to be in hell, which of wood they do not. Thirdly, the reason, whereupon the Defenders objection is grounded, overthroweth all religion in this life, and all reward in the life to come. For this is and must be the pillar whereto his objection leaneth. The Scripture nameth fire, and so it nameth wood; and therefore it showeth the truth of the one no more than it doth of the other; but if the wood be figurative, so must the fire be. Apply this reason to the Church of Christ on earth, or to the kingdom of heaven, or to Christ himself, and see whether it will not utterly subvert them all, and make all God's promises and graces here and in heaven to be allegorical, and not literally true. Of Christ God saith; 
b Esa. 28.  Behold I will lay in Zion a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone. And of himself Christ saith, 
c john 15.  I am the true Vine. Were it not brave blasphemy to say, the Scriptures show Christ to be no more a true God, than a true Stone, or a true Vine, because they affirm of him all three? To his Church God saith, 
d Esai. 54.  I will lay thy foundation with sapphires, and will make thy windows of Emeralds, and thy gates shining stones. All thy children shall be taught of God, and much peace shall be to thy children: in righteousness shalt thou be established. Shall we say that wisdom, peace, and righteousness here promised to the Church are figurative, because Emeralds and sapphires mentioned in the very same place must be figuratively taken? Christ saith to his disciples; 
e Luc. 22.  I appoint you a kingdom as my Father hath appointed to me, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom. Are all the rewards of the faithful in the kingdom of heaven allegorical, because this most apparently is so? Proud and false therefore is that surly resolution of yours, Sir Discourser, who avouch the Scriptures show no more true fire in hell, than much wood, because the Prophet in one place nameth them both; and if your objections be no better, let the Christian reader judge whether there be any cause you should so earnestly call for an answer.  
But let us view the place whence you fetch your wood to nourish hell fire; and see whether it make no more for the one then for the other. Against Senacherib that proud and blasphemous king of Assyria, the capital and cruel enemy of God's people and Church, the Prophet denounceth vengeance in this wise. 
f Esa. 30.  The Lord shall cause the glory of his voice to be heard, and shall show the stroke of his arm with the anger of his countenance, and flame of devouring fire, with scattering and tempest. For Tophet is provided of old, it is even ready for the King: (God) hath made it deep and wide, the burning thereof is fire and much wood: the breath of the Lord doth kindle it as a current (or river) of brimstone. Tophet was a place built by hand in the valley of Hinnom near to jerusalem, made deep and wide to contain whole piles of wood which the Priests of Molech with their devices and provisions could readily kindle, and raze to huge and mighty flames, to enclose and consume the children that were presented to their Idol. To this place and use the Prophet alludeth, when he threateneth the King of Asshur; and to comfort the jowes that God had care over them, he assureth them, that Gods Tophet was provided of old, and ready for the King (of Asshur,) that it was deep and wide (to receive him and all his retinue;) and the burning thereof (as) the fire (of) much wood, the breath of the Lord kindling it as a flood of brimstone. That Tophet was a place in the valley of Hinnom, & a part of Gehinnom 
g jerem. ●…. ve●…. 31.  BVILT high of purpose to burn children in the fire, appeareth by jeremy. The store of wood heaped there, and the rage of fire kindled there is evident by Esays comparison, when he saith. The burning thereof is fire and much wood, the breath of the Lord as a River of brimstone kindling it: fire and much wood is the fire of much wood, to which he compareth the burning of hell, for wood without kindling maketh no fire. And so the Chaldaie paraphrast expresseth it. 
h Chalda●…a paraphras. in Esa. 30.  A flame of sire is there (in hell) kindled LIKE AS in much wood. And to every man meanly seen in the Hebrew tongue, it is a known Rule, that Caph the note of similitude is often understood in the Scriptures; and then specially when it is added to one part of the Period, for example; 
i Psal. 11. v. 1.  Fly to your mountain a bird, that is LIKE a bird. 
k Miche. 3 v 9  Zion shall be ploughed a field that is LIKE a field. 
l Gen. 49. v 9  A lions whelp judah from the prey shalt thou ascend; that is LIKE a lions whelp. 
m Esa. 4●…. v. 6.  All flesh is grass, and the glory thereof is as the flower of the field that is, all flesh is LIKE grass. And in this place of Esaie it is so the rather, because the adverb of similitude is expressed in the next member, where it is said, the breath of the Lord, LIKE a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it: which argueth that the former part must likewise be understood the burning thereof is A s a fire of much wood which in effect is a mighty flame. This then being a comparison, what reason have you, Sir Discourser, to pronounce, that the Scriptures show no more true fire in hell then much wood; since fire was the main respect why hell was likened to Tophet; wood was not, and without fire, hell is no more like to Tophet then it is to a bodkin; which if it be thrust into a man's body will raze pain enough. And therefore these amplifications must either utterly be void, and import nothing known to the jews, or else there must be fire in hell as there was in Tophet, and that like the fire of much wood, which is violent and raging; and as a torrent of brimstone, which flameth all with fire, if it be once kindled. And since Christ called hell Gehinnam for the resemblance it had to the flames of Gehinnom as is before proved; what marvel if the Prophet speaking by the same spirit, compared hell to Tophet, which was the place in Gehinnom where the mightiest fires to burn men were made in his time?  
Or if we follow not the Chaldaie paraphrase to make wood a comparison, but lean to the later writers who make it a metaphor, and refer it either to the continuance of hell fire, or to the sins, souls, and bodies of the wicked feeding and nourishing the fire of hell, as wood doth our common fire; what gain you by that? If one word in the sentence be figurative, will you conclude all the rest to be figurative? so may you as well anouch all the Articles of our faith to be allegorical, because sitting at the right hand of God is a plain allegory. And are there no more places in the Scriptures mentioning hell fire besides this of Esaie? Or if there be, as there be exceeding many, which have no similitudes nor metaphors in them, will you allegorize them all, because this place of Esaie hath one similitude or metaphor in it? whether this have any learning, reason, or sense in it let the Reader judge.  
And because I have mentioned the opinion of the latter writers, making wood a 
Later Divines profess true fire to be in hell.  metaphor in this place of Esaie, and yet confessing the fire of hell to be a true, substantial, and external fire; I think it not amiss to let the Reader see, what diverse of them, in true religion and learning not inferior to any of our time, have professed touching either of these points. Peter Martyrs judgement of GEHENNA we heard before, who maketh 
n Pet. Martyr in 2. cap. 2. lib. Reg.  Tophet all one with GEHENNA and saith of Tophet: Esaie in his 30. Chapter calleth that place (of Gehenna) Tophet, and fire unquenchable, as having much wood and brimstone to nourish it. The Prophet also setteth down the breath wherewith the fire is blown, that it may flame the more fiercely. Munster in his Annotations upon the 30. of Esaie saith 
o Ma●…ster. Annotat. in 30. Esa.  Gehenna is here called Tophet. Dicit habitaculum illud esse ig●…eum; That (place or) habitacle the Prophet saith is all fiery, to let thee understand, that the torment there is everlasting. For the unclean lusts of the mind, which here are not purged by faith, shall be the nourishment of that eternal flame IN STEED of wood and coals. And also the conscience (within) shall afflict the wicked as a kind of fire. Hell is perpetual because the Spirit and will of the Lord give everlasting force of fire to it. Bullinger in his 90. homily upon the same Chapter. 
p Bullinger homil. 90. in Esa. 30.  Our Prophet calleth hell Tophet, as our Saviour called it Gehenna. And indeed Tophet or Gehenna did burn and flame with perpetual fires devouring their children, which seduced with a devilish error, thought they offered them unto God, when they offered them unto the devil. As then in Tophet wretched men were skorched with fire, so in hell all the wicked are tormented with everlasting fire. Therefore hell is rightly called Tophet and Gehenna whose inside or burning is fire; that is, if thou ask what is in hell, there is fire and burning, or, whatsoever is within hell is nothing but fire. God performeth that hell shall flame with perpetual fire, even as in many places and hills of the earth an unwasted store of brimstone is found that even thence we may gather there may be Rivers and lakes of brimstone in hell. All these things the Almighty knoweth how to prepare, that these torments may ●…itte both Souls and bodies, so that we have no need to dispute whether this fire and brimstone be corporal, and if it be corporal, how it worketh upon spiritual substances. The Lord as I now said, can fit all these to either part (of man,) that in truth they may be inflicted as well on the bodies, as on the spirits of the damned, which here the Prophet foretelleth. If thou hadst rather dispute against them, and wilt not now believe these things, doubtless thou shalt one day try them by experience. Gualther upon the same place. Esaie 
q Gualther. homil. 163. in Esa. 30.  teacheth what hell is. The inside thereof is fire; that is how deep and wide soever hell is, it is all fire and burneth everlastingly. For so he describeth the sharpness of the punishment, which the wicked shall there suffer. And lest any should ask, what matter can suffice to maintain such a fire, the Prophet saith, there is great store of wood. He that made hell hath plentifully provided, that the fire there shall never go out. For filthy lusts and lewd acts not purged by ●…aith, and guilty minds yield perpetual matter and maintenance to those flames. Yea and the bodies also of the wicked shall be incorruptible that they may suffer continual fire and flame, and dure therein. He mentioneth also a stream of brimstone, whereof the Apocalypse speaketh, that we should remember and consider those things which are in nature; For so many ages hath the fire of Aetna continued and still doth, casting up flames of brimstone. He than that kindleth these things (in nature) without the help or assistance of men, he also can kindle and maintain the fire of hell, that it shall never fail. Musculus commenting upon the 25. of Matthew saith. 
r Muscul. in Mat. cap. 25.  Those who measure all things by the rule of reason, and think nothing firm that cannot be comprehended by man's wit, dispute how it is possible, that the body should always burn (in hell) and not consume, which is repugnant to the nature of the body. They likewise dispute how fire can burn not only bodies, but also wicked spirits which have no bodies. These curious men think that to be against nature, which is done by God's will, neither do they consider, the nature of all creatures to have and be that, which they have and are by God's commandment. Others quarrel with the quality of the fire, and think it no corporal but a metaphorical fire, which they take ●…or an exceeding pain and sorrow of mind. This they gather out of the 9 of Mark, where Christ saith, their worm dieth not, and the sire quencheth not. Here as by the name of worm no corporal worm is to be understood, but a great and continual remorse of mind; so they think by the word fire no corporal fire, but a metaphorical must be conceived. I take it to be rashness and not the part of a christian man (thus) to dispute of the quality of this fire, but rather leaving the certain knowledge thereof to the judge, to provide that we try it not one day, what manner of sire it is. Zanchius very soberly and learnedly examining this question resolveth in this sort. 
s Zanchius de operibus dei part. 1. lib. 4. cap. 19  It is certain the devils together with all the wicked shall be in everlasting fire, and therein tormented. Christ plainly professeth he will say to the wicked depart into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his Angels. What manner of fire it shall be I dispute not because the Scripture doth not express it; but this is without question, that not only the souls of the wicked, but also their bodies shall suffer torment FROM THIS FIRE, and therefore the fire such as may work upon their bodies, and inflict on them a far greater pain, than our material fire doth impress on us. What quality soever it shall be of, it seemeth it shall be altogether a corporal creature, which may work upon bodies and torment them. Which being so; IT IS MANIFEST the devil shall suffer pain and torment from a corporal thing, I mean from this sire, and that everlastingly; therefore it is called eternal and unquenchable fire. And ask your question 
t Idem in 1 cap. 2 epist. ad Thes. part. 3. Thesi. 4.  How is it possible, that spiritual substances should suffer from corporal, he answereth. We have an example in ourselves in whom the soul suffereth many things from the body by her conjunction with it. Again, what can resist the power and will of God? Let this doubt therefore depart from the minds of the faithful. I produce these later writers of great learning and good religion, as I might many more, to let thee understand gentle Reader, that I neither press the Scriptures, nor cite the Fathers to any other purpose, but to that, which by all their judgements is Christian and catholic; and howsoever some men otherwise learned, but carried with this new conceit of Christ's suffering the essential pains of the damned, to colour their devise, call these things in question, yet the most advised and sufficient Divines of our age have clearly confessed that which I teach, to accord with the holy Scriptures, and to be held of the godly without contradiction.  
The ancient Fathers of Christ's Church uphold the same doctrine, and teach the fire of hell to be an external, visible, and true fire, and not a spiritual and internal pain only, as this Discourser intendeth. 
u Chrysost. ad Theodor. laps. epist. 5.  With no speech (saith chrysostom) can any man express it here, but else where we shall see it most plainly. Set now before thine eyes that horrible way, which shall carry (thou) headlong to the fire, and the (devils) ready with torments, and the persons delivered to such cruel tormentors. These things shallbe in that day. 
x August. li. 50. homiliarum. hom. 16.  Let us always think on these things (saith Austen) lest it repent us too late, when we come to the sight of eternal fire. For the burning pit of hell shallbe laid open, there shallbe a descent, but no ascent. 
y Basil. in psal. 33.  Call to mind (saith Basil) that terrible tribunal of Christ, which no creature may endure; there must every one of us be presented to render an account of his life. About those that have lived wickedly shall stand fearful and grisly angels beholding the sire and kindling it. Then shall they see a deep gulf, and darkness that no eyes can pierce through, and an obscure fire that with blackness hath lost his shining, but kept his burning. 
z Cyril. de exi●… an. & de secund. adventu.  Alas (saith Cyril) what a place is that where is weeping and gnashing of teeth, which is called hell, which the devil himself abhorreth? Alas what a gehenna of unquenched sire is that, which burneth and shineth not? how venomous is that worm, which never resteth? how terrible is that deep and everduring darkness? how cruel in their torments are those merciless Angels? woe to the guilty; when the innocent shallbe rewarded with honour, and they with shame. The innocent shall go to Paradise, the nocent into fire unquenchable. The sight of God shall cherish the innocent, the sight of fire shall torment the wicked. If the fire of hell be visible, it must needs be an external and true fire: for internal and spiritual pains are invisible. And therefore the Church of Christ hath always confessed the fire of hell to be an external and violent force of true fire tormenting the wicked; and condemned as an error in Origen, the conceit of an inward and spiritual fire in stead of hell fire, which this Defender is so much in love withal.  
jerom directing Auitus what he should beware in the reading of origen's bookcs, saith, 
a Hiero. ad Auitum quid sit cavendum in libris 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  Scias detestanda tibi in cis esse quam plurima, & juxta sermonem Domini, inter scorpiones & colubros incedendum. This know, that there are very many things in them to be detested by thee; and as God speaketh, Thou must walk amongst Scorpions and Serpents. Where repeating divers errors of Origen, he layeth this down for one of those that must be detested. 
b Hiero. ibid.  Ignes quoque Gehennae & tormenta quae scriptura sancta peccatoribus comminatur, non ponit in supplicijs, sed in conscientia peccatorum, quando Dei virtute & potentia omnis memoria delictorum ante oculos nostros ponitur, ac praeteritas voluptates mens intuens conscientiae punitur ardore, & poenitudinis stimulis confoditur. The fire of hell also and the torments, which the sacred Scripture threateneth unto sinners, (Origen) PLACETH NOT AMONGST (external) PUNISHMENTS, BUT WITHIN THE CONSCIENCE of sinners; when as by the virtue and power of God the remembrance of all our sins is set before our eyes, and the mind beholding her pleasures past, is punished with the fire of conscience, and pierced with the stings of (grief and) repentance. This error jerom more plainly expresseth, and sharply taxeth in his larger Commentaries upon the Epistle to the Ephesians; whose words to prevent all cavils I think best to set down in Latin as they lie, though they be large; for that they give light to the former testimony. 
c Hier. in 5. cap. epist. ad Ephes.  Quia sunt plerique, qui dicunt non futura pro peccatis esse supplicia nec extrinsecus adhibenda tormenta, sed ipsum peccatum & conscientiam delicti esse pro poena, dum vermis in cord non moritur, & in animo ignis accenditur in similitudinem febris, quae non torquet extrinsecus aegrotantem, sed corpus ipsa corripiens punit sine cruciatuum forinsecus adhibitione: has it aque persuasiones & decipulas fraudulentas verba inania appellavit & vacua, quae videntur blandiri peccantibus, sed magis eos ferunt ad aeterna supplicia. Because there are many which say that there shall be no (external) punishments for sin, nor TORMENTS OUTWARDLY INFLICTED, but that sin itself, and the conscience thereof is punishment, whiles the worm doth not die in the heart, and a fire is kindled in the soul after the fashion of a fever, which doth not outwardly torment the sick, but possessing the body ve●…th ●…t without any forr●…gne inflicting of pain: these persuasions and deceitful devices, the Apostle calleth void and empty words, which seem to flatter sinners, but indeed hasten them to eternal punishment. Hell fire by this resolution is a punishment OUTWARDLY inflicted on the damned, and not an inward fire or pain kindled in the mind, and possessing the soul or body as an ague doth, which is an inward grievance, but no external violence; and the contrary conceit of your spiritual fire in the mind to be hell fire, is here condemned in Origen as a deceitful and detestable error, hastening men to eternal torments.  
The same confession still continued, in the Church of Christ, Gregory: 
d Gregor. moral●…. lib. 9 cap. 38.  Quos flamma Gehennae devor at, à visione veri luminis coecat, ut for is eos dolor combustionis cruciet, & intus poena caecitatis obscuret, quatenus qui authori suo cord & corpore deliquerunt, simul cord & corpore p●…iantur. Whom the flame of hell devoureth, it blindeth from seeing the true light; that pain of burning may outwardly torment them, and punishment of blindness inwardly obscure them, that as they sinned against their maker with heart and body, so they may be punished both in soul and body. Isidore: 
e Isidor. de sum 〈◊〉. lib. 1. cap. 31.  Duplex damnatorum poena est in Gehenna, quorum & mentem urit tristitia, & corpus flamma. There is a double punishment of the damned in hell, whose minds burn with sorrow, and their bodies with flame; by a just rcward, that as they debated with their minds what they might perform with their bodies, so they should be punished both in soul and body. Bede: By the 
f Beda lib. 3. cap. in cap. 9 Marci.  worm (Christ) noteth the rottenness, as by fire the burning of hell; or cl the worm signifieth the over-late repentance of sin, which shall never cease to bite the conscience of the damned in their torments; ut ignis sit poena extrinsecus s●…iens, vermis dolor interi●…s accusans; that the fire (of hell) should be a torment OUTWARDLY raging, and the worm a grief inwardly accusing. Bernard: 
g Bernard de interiori dom●… cap. 38.  Timor co●…turbabit te, cum terra aperietur cor am te, & iurues & caedes in stagnum sulfuris ardent is & foetentis. Ignis exteriùs carnem tuam comburet, vermis interiùs conscientiam corrodet. Fear shall amaze thee, when the earth shall open before thee, and thou fall and light in the lake of brimstone burning and st●…king. Fire shall OUTWARDLY BURN thy flesh, and a worm shall inwardly gnaw thy conscience. So Tertullian before them: 
h Tertul. in Apologetico.  Gehenna est ignis arcani subterraneus ad poenam the saurus. Hell is a treasure of secret fire kept under the earth to punish withal. And justine the Martyr: The devils 
i justinus Apologia prima pro Christianis  shall suffer punishment and vengeance, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, enclosed in everlasting fire. Arnobius likewise: (The Gentiles) are 
k Arnobius adversus gent●…s. lib. 8.  admonished by the books of (their) best learned men, and verses of (their) Poets, of that fiery flood and infernal lake of flames often compassing (the place) which being prepared for eternal torments, they delivered as known, both by the demonstration of devils, and by the oracles of the Prophets. As the flashes of lightning touch men's bodies, but consume them not, and as the fires of Aetna and Veswius and of other places of the earth do burn, and not spend; so that flame appointed to punish (the wicked) is not fed with the decays of those that burn, but nourished with parching their bodies that waste not. And Prosper: To 
l Prospr de vita contemplatina. lib. 3. cap. 12.  hear and read these things, and to believe they shall come to pass; to think how great an evil it is to be excluded from the joy of beholding God; to be banished from heaven, and cast into everlasting fire with the devil and his angels; to see no light in that fire, but to feel that it burneth; to suffer the terrible cracks of that flaming fire; to have their eyes blinded with the bitter smoke of that fuming gulf; to be drowned in the deep lake of Gehenna, and to be torn eternally with most greedy worms; to think on these things and many such like, is a sure way to renounce all vice, and refrain all allurements of the flesh. Apparently then the fire of hell by the confession of all these ancient and Christian writers is local, as kept under the earth; external, as enclosing the damned both men and devils; and sensible to the eyes with obscure flames tormenting all the parts of the body with an horrible pain of burning, but not consuming them.  
And that the fire of hell shallbe an external and true fire, what proof can be fairer or fuller than that Scriptures and Fathers with one voice profess that Christ shall come to judge the world in flaming fire, which shall 
m 2. Pet 3.  melt the elements with heat, and dissolve the heavens; and therefore without question must needs be a true, substantial, & external fire; and that the same fire, with which he shall come to judge, shall devour his adversaries. 
n Esa. 66.  Behold (saith Esay) the Lord will come with fire, that he may render his indignation with the flame of fire: for the Lord will judge with fire. 
o Psal. 96.  There shall go a fire before him, (when he cometh to judge, saith David) and burn up his enemies ro●…nd about. The Lord jesus (saith Paul) 
p 2. Thess. 1.  shall show himself from heaven in flaming fire, rendering vengeance to them that know not God, and obey not the Gospel. For (to such) 
q Hebr. 10.  remaineth no sacrifice for sin, but a fearful expectation of judgement, and a violence of fire which shall devour the adversaries. Fire (saith Arnobius) shall go before Christ coming to judgement, 
r Arnobius in Psal 96.  even fire which shall perform two offices: with one and the same aspect it shall lighten the friends, and inflame the enemies of God: for the fire which shall burn the sinful, shallbe made brightness to the just. The end of this present world (saith justine Martyr) is the 
s Iust. in resp. ad quaest. 74.  judgement of the wicked by fire as the scriptures of the Prophets & Apostlesdeclare, and likewise th●… writings of Sibylle: so blessed Clemens (that lived with the Apostles) in his Epistle to the Corinth's affirmeth. Christ shall come (saith Ambrose) 
t Ambros. in 2. Thess. cap. 1.  with his heavenly army, and with fire as his minister to give vengeance. ●…or the sire of judgement shall serve him to revenge the reprobate, saith Gregory. Paul 
x Theodoret. in 2. Thess. cap. 1.  showeth (saith Theodoret) that 
u Gregor. in Ezech. hom. 2.  judgement shallbe full of terror, noting first the judge coming from heaven; then their power which minister unto him, who are the angels; lastly, th●… kind of punishment: for (the wicked) shall be delivered to the flame of fire. There are 
y Idem in Psal. 96.  two properties in fire; to burn, and to shine: the shining property the assembly of Saints shall enjoy; by the other shall wicked men be punished. So Basil: 
z Basil. in Psal. 28.  There are two forces in fire; one to burn, the other to shine: the sharpness of ●…ire which punisheth, is laid up for those that deserve burning; the light and shining thereof is allotted to the joy of the blessed. And Athanasius: 
a Athan. interp. parabol. quaest. 79.  Fire hath two forces; the one of shining, which shall be given to the just. the other of burning, which shall be divided to sinners. jerom likewise: Fire shallbe 
b Hieron. in Ezech. li. 1. cap. 1.  light to the faithful, and punish the unbelievers. And Theophylact: (Christ's) coming shall be in flaming fire, as David professeth (of him): A fire shall go before him, and shall burn his enemies round about. For 
Theophylact. in 2. Thess. cap. 1.  this fire shall offer burning to sinners, and no shining; but to the just it shall give light and shining and no heat or burning. The fire, I trust, which hath these two properties, to lighten the just, and torment the wicked, is an external and sensible fire; and with that fire Christ shall come to dissolve the heavens, melt the elements, and punish the wicked; neither shall the spiritual and internal pain of the soul, which the Discourser maketh his hell fire, come near the Saints, or be joyous and comfortable to any, as the fire of judgement shallbe to the saints of God.  
Then all sorts of writers, Prophets, Evangelists. Apostles, and Divines of all ages: Yea Philosophers, Poets, and Sibyls have taught, the wicked shall ●…e punished with true fire, and not with metaphors; and the Son of God in person hath confirmed the same; and all sects, jews, Pagans, and Christians have believed it; God taking special care as well by deeds as words that the truth and terror of his vengeance upon sin should not be unknown to all the world. For which cause he hath not only made the earth in many places as Aetna, Veswis, and else where to burn with perpetual fire; but hath often destroyed sinful persons and places with fire from heaven; to let all men see and know that the vengeance decreed. threatened, and executed on the wicked is sensible and true fire from God; which he hath made of all senseless creatures the most violent, potent and fearful means to punish. Therefore did he 
d Genes. 19  rain fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorre when their sins were at full; & punished the people, that murmured at him, with fire; calling the name of the place 
e Number 11  THABHERAH, because the fire of the Lord burnt amongst them; as likewise he sent 
f Number. 21.  Fiery serpents to bite them, when they spoke against him. So 
g Number. 16.  Fire came out from the Lord, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men of Corahs' company, that presumed to offer incense unto the Lord; as before it had destroyed 
h Levit 10.  Nadab and Abihu for offering strange fire before the Lord. And at Eliahs' word 
i 2. Kings. 1.  Fire came down from heaven twice and devoured two Captains with their two bands of an hundred men. Insomuch that when Satan would have job believe, he was punished by Gods own hand, he gate fire to fall from heaven upon jobs sheep and servants; the messenger making this report; 
k job. 1.  The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burnt up (thy) sheep and servants and devoured them. Which kind of vengeance 
l Luke 9  james and john the Disciples of Christ desired, when their master was repelled by the Samaritans and denied lodging, as willing to have that inhumanity punished to the example of all others, but that they were repressed by him who came to save, and not to destroy. Thus hath God often by true and sensible fire from heaven, declared and verified the certainty of his general and final judgement, when his Son shall appear in flaming fire to render vengeance to all that know not God and obey not the Gospel; and that fire of judgement, which shall burn heaven and earth, shall shine to the Saints with joy and comfort, and punish the wicked by tormenting them for ever.  
This you think is not against you: for you deny that 
m Defenc. pa. 146. l. 35.  Now there is corporal fire in hell, whatsoever there shall be hereafter, when bodies also shall be there united and tormented with the souls, and this only is your question, or nothing. Many shifts you have sent us in 
Whether there be true fire in hell before judgement is not the question.  your late defence, which savour neither of learning nor religion; but a slenderer than this you have sent us none. For first this is not the chief doubt, whether there be now in hell any true fire or no; which you say is your ONLY QUESTION or nothing: but what is the substance of damnation due to sin, and what vengeance for sin all the wicked must suffer in hell, not for a time but for ever; and we should have suffered, had we not been redeemed; this is the right & main point in question. For this is the full weight and burden of our sins, which you 
n See the conclusion of my sermons fol. 339  say must be laid upon Christ before we could be freed from it; and this is the proper payment and wages of sin, which we should have paid, had we not been ransommed by the death of Christ; and therefore by your own conclusions Christ must and did pay the same, which else we should have paid. That which the damned do presently suffer in hell, is not the full burden, nor just vages of their sins; else the terror of judgement, as well as the taking of their bodies were wholly superfluous; if the true payment and full vengeance of their sins were executed on them before judgement. But the reprobat as well men as Angels are 
o Epist jud. vers. 6.  Reserved under darkness unto the judgement of the great day; and 
p 2. Pet. 2.  Unto DAMNATION (which) sleepeth not; though it be not already to the full performed on either. Again, a great number of the wicked shall never try the torments of the soul severed from the body, because the day of Christ shall find them living, as the Apostle 
* 1. Cor. 15.  testifieth, and not part their souls from their bodies, but cast both jointly into hell fire, so that the vengeance of sin before judgement which you would so feign fasten on, and make YOUR ONLY QUESTION, cometh too short of all your own conclusions, and is excluded by the express words of your limitations in your late defence. For you subject Christ to all Gods proper wrath and vengeance, so far as was due generally for all mankind to suffer. But the fire of hell before judgement, except it be the self same that also remaineth after judgement, belongeth not by God's justice to all men in general, by reason many shall not suffer it but after judgement. It is evident therefore that the fire of hell before judgement is not your main question, because it neither is the full wages nor vengeance of sin, nor generally due to all mankind; but the right and true question is touching hell fire after judgement, wherein body and soul shall burn, feeling the torment and violence of everlasting fire, according to the measure of each man's sins.  
Howbeit, if we mark well the words of holy Scripture, this which you would so gladly make your question, is no question at all. For by the sentence of the judge it manifestly appeareth, that there is but one and the same fire provided for all the damned both men and devils; and that fire not only is everlasting without end or change, but prepared and made ready before the day of judgement, as the words of our Saviour do plainly import; who will say to all the wicked without exception: 
q Matth. 25.  Depart from me ye cursed, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, into (that) everlasting fire, which is (already) prepared for the devil and his angels. The article so often repeated suffereth the fire whereinto the wicked shall be cast, to be none other fire but the selfsame that is everlasting, and prepared for the devils. The Participle of the Preterperfect tense argueth the time when that fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, to be perfectly passed before judgement. Of the first there can be no question; 
r August. de civitate Dei lib. 21. cap. 10.  Idem quip ignis crit supplicio scilicet hominum attributus & Daemonum, dicente Christo, Discedite à me maledicti in ignem aeternum, qui paratus est Diabolo & Angelis eius. unus quip ignis utrisque erit, sicut veritas dixit. The same fire (saith Austen) shall serve for the punishing of men and Devils, Christ saying, Depart from me ye cursed into the fire everlasting, which is prepared for the Devil and his Angels. One fire shallbe to both, as the truth hath spoken. The second, that hell fire is prepared before the day of judgement, and abideth everlasting from the time of the preparation without any new creating or altering at the day of judgement, is as evident by the sacred Scriptures. Esay who lived and prophesied more than eight hundred years before our Saviour revealed this doctrine, saith of it, as we heard before: 
s Esa. 30.  Tophet is prepared of old (or long since) the burning thereofis (as the) fire (of) much wood; the breath of the Lord, like a river of brimstone, doth kindle it. Our Lord and Master almost one thousand six hundred years since, made the soul of the rich man in the sixteenth of Luke to say of hell fire, 
t Luke 16.  I am tormented in this flame. And S. Jude proposing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrhe, saith; They 
u Epist. jude. vers. 7.  are set forth for an example, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, (in or by) suffering the punishment of everlasting fire. Where we see the fire which God reigned from heaven on Sodom and Gomorrhe, is called everlasting; and the inhabitants of those cities are affirmed by the Apostle (even then when he wrote) to suffer everlasting sire, for an example of the just judgement of God. It is therefore one and the same fire of hell that punisheth the wicked before and after judgement, which was prepared long since, as Esay saith, and is everlasting, that is, not ending or changing into another fire, but increasing and kindling with greater fierceness at the day of judgement, that all the wicked both men and angels may receive a damnation answerable to their deserts, which in part they now feel, but then expect a sharper and sorer torment than yet is executed on them; which is the terror of judgement and fullness of damnation reserved for them.  
Then notwithstanding your sleights and shifts, Sir Discourser, that Christ suffered the substance and essence of hell pains, and that happily there shall be corporal fire after judgement, yet now there is no true fire in hell: we find it resolved by the Scriptures, and avouched by all the ancient Fathers, and the best learned Divines of our time; that the fire of hell so much threatened in the Scriptures to the reprobate, is a true, substantial, and external fire, and the same that was prepared for the devils even from their fall, and doth and shall dure as well before, as after judgement for ever; into which the souls are, and at the general resurrection the bodies of all the wicked shall be cast, there to burn with unspeakable and unceaseable torments. And though I think it not fit for any man to take upon him to deliver the quality or force of that fire further than the Scriptures have revealed it; yet that is no just cause to doubt the truth thereof, or to prejudice the power of God, who hath spoken the word, as if he could not, or would not perform it; but rather for certain to know, and confess that God can punish the mightiest of his Angels by the weakest of his creatures; and as in sinning they have exalted themselves by pride far above their degree; so in punishing them for their sin, God can and will depress them as far beneath their original condition; to teach them that all their strength depended on his will and pleasure. So that we have no need to run to the immediate hand of God alone, to make him the sole tormentor of spirits, (as this Discourser doth) for extracting a new Quintessence of hell fire: the will and word of God, as it gave to men and Angels all their power and force, so may it take the same from them swelling against him when he will; and subject them to the force of any his creatures, which he can endue with might to perform his commandment against all the transgressors and despisers of his righteousness and holiness.  
In sum we see that Christ suffered no part of that, which the Scriptures make substantial and essential to the pains of hell and damnation of the wicked, I mean of that which is included in the sentence of the judge pronounced against them: but this Discourser, as he hath devised a new kind of redemption never mentioned in the Scriptures, nor derived from the blood of Christ; so hath he framed us another hell, than the word of God revealeth; and changed the whole course of the sacred Scriptures with his dreams and devices, that though the text of holy writ do no way favour his sansies, yet by flying to allegories, and heaping up a number of metaphors, he might entertain some talk, when his proofs did fail. To uphold that Christ suffered the true pains of hell, before we could be redeemed by his death & bloodshed; he minced hell pains into substance and accidence, and lest this gear should seem gross, he shadowed the substance of hell fire with figures and allegories; and sent us at last to the immediate hand of God, for all punishment of sin in the life to come; not upon any just ground or proof out of Scripture, but because his Mastership knew not otherwise how to carry his conceits cleanly, he unloaded them all by tropes and metaphors upon Gods immediate hand; from which only (as he saith, though very untruly) the Soul hath her proper and principal suffering. But examining the parts, we find no such metaphysical substance of hell, as he pretendeth; no such metaphorical fire, as he affirmeth; no such immediate hand of God, vexing Souls and devils in hell, as he imagineth; we rather find the clean contrary; to wit, his circumstances to be of the substance of the judgement pronounced upon the wicked; the fire in hell to be a true and substantial fire; and by that, as by a peculiar means decreed by the will, strengthened by the power and revealed by the word of God, the damned both souls and devils to be perpetually punished and tormented, each of them according to their demerits; though the inward powers and faculties of the mind, shall not cease most grievously also to afflict the damned and despairing spirits. And touching Christ's sufferings, to which all this must be referred, and for which all this is discussed, we find him most free from darkenes●…, destruction, confusion, remorse of sin from malediction, dereaction, and desperation with their consequents; and from the torment of hell ●…ire, either in soul or body which is the second death; that is in deed from all the parts of damnation noted in the Scriptures to be provided for the reprobate, which are the true pains o●… hell; and so this devisers dreams to be as far from truth, as they are from all testimonies of holy Scripture, which mention no such things suffered by Christ, nor make any of them needful for Christ to suffer before he might pay the price of our redemption.  

x Defenc. pag. 2●… l. 26.  We do not contend to express what just measure of God's wrath. nor precisely in what manner it was revealed, and executed on Christ. Only we know that whatsoever it were, 
.  God's very wrath and proper vengeance for sins, though outwardly executed on the body, yet it could not but sink in deeper, even into the depth of the soul a●…d be discerned by Christ, and conceived to be such, and so sustained as proceeding from God, and so wound the Soul properly. yea chiefly, though the anguish thereof bruised his body jointly also. You have laboured (Sir Discourser) in twenty pages of your Defence by many lame distinctions and false positions to show us the MANNER & MEASURE of Christ's suffering the pains of hell for the sin of man. The manner you made to be, Christ's suffering them properly, yea only in his very soul, from the immediate hand of God, even as the damned do. The measure you took to be all Gods proper wrath and vengeance for sin, yea the self same pains for their nature which are in hell. and which are extremest and sharpest in hell. Your twelfth page told us in plain words, 
y Defenc. pa. 12. l. 28.  These pains then in this very manner inflicted Christ felt; indeed not being in the local hell; yet those being the self same pains for their nature which are in hell, yea which are SHARPEST in hell. And he discerned and received them properly, yea ONLY in his very soul. You begin now to tell us another tale, that you doc not contend to express what just measure of God's wrath, nor precisely in what manner it was revealed and executed on Christ. Only you know that what soever it was, God's very wrath and proper vengeance for sins, though outwardly executed on the body, could not but sink in deeper, and so wound the soul properly yea chiefly. By a long process you made us believe the souls proper and immediate suffering must be from the hand of God alone, without inferior means and instruments, and not from the body, because that kind of suffering is common to us with beasts, and 
z Treatis. pa. 18. li. ultima.  maketh not properly to our redemption. And so by your refined divinity, the stripes, wounds, blood and death of Christ, could not properly pertain to the price of our redemption, by reason those sufferings which come by the body were common to Christ with beasts. Thus reverently and religiously, to prove yourself a pure Christian, you resolved touching the bloodshed and death of Christ, sustained on the Crosse. Now as almost tired with that blasphemous toy, and perceiving how hard it would be to please the learned with this leaven, or to seduce the simple with these unsavoury shifts, which have neither foundation nor mention in the sacred Scriptures; you begin to turn an other leaf, and to tell us you do not contend for the just measure, nor precise manner of Christ's suffering the wrath of God. Only you know that whatsoever it were (though you can neither prove nor express what it was) Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sin, though outwardly executed on the body, could not but sink deeper into the Soul, and wound the soul properly yea chiefly, though the anguish thereof bruised the body jointly also.  
It is well yet at last that you find yourself ignorant of some things, and that you will not take upon you to express in what precise manner, or just measure the wrath of God was revealed and executed on Christ. For whiles you broached those secrets more boldly then wisely or truly, you ran yourself out of breath, and brought neither substance nor shadow of holy Scripture to warrant your vanities, but danced up and down with certain licentious and ambiguous phrases of GOD'S PROPER WRATH, MERE JUSTICE, VERY VENGEANCE and such like flowers, neither confirmed by the Scriptures, nor so much as expounded by yourself, but because you check your own presumption, I will spare it, and come to that which you profess yourself so resolutely to know; that Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sin, though outwardly executed on the body (of Christ) could not but sink deeper into the soul, and wound the soul properly, yea chiefly, though the anguish thereof bruised his body also. Wherein notwithstanding you keep your accustomed phrases of Gods very wrath and proper vengeance, which you neither do, nor dare describe by the parts thereof, that we may discern the truth of your speech; yet for their sakes that are simple, I am content shortly to examine what wrath from God, Christ suffered, as far as the Scriptures direct us, at whose hands he suffered it, and what he did, and must conceive of those his sufferings.  
There is no question but power to feel, conceive, and discern by sense, reason, 
What wrath of God Christ suffered.  or faith in man belongeth properly yea only to the soul of man. Life, sense, and motion appear in the body, and have their actions performed by the instruments of the body: but even in them the power and force that quickeneth and moveth the body, and discerneth by the senses of the body, cometh from the soul, and so dependeth on the soul, that the soul departing from the body leaveth it void of all motion, sense and life. Then in all Christ's sufferings, when any violence lighted on his body, the pain pierced into his soul, and his soul not only fully felt the anguish thereof, but rightly discerned the fountain whence, the cause why, and the means by which it came. Christ likewise knew himself to be endued with such might and strength, that of himself he could not only resist the whole world, if he would; but even command and repress men and devils. His overruling of seas, winds, and wicked spirits, and giving his Disciples power over them is so evident and often in the Scriptures, that no Christian may be ignorant of it. After his agony in the Garden, with the word of his mouth he threw to the 
a john. 18.  ground the whole band of men, that came with judas to take him; and when by this means he had showed himself not destitute of his wont force and virtue, he voluntarily submitted himself, not only to be bound and brought whether they would, but even to be whipped, mocked, wounded, hanged, and every way used at their pleasure. Which he did not to satisfy their wicked rage, but to obey the will of his heavenly Father; who when he would punish the sins of men in the person of his own Son, 
b Matth. 26.  Delivered him into the hands of sinners, from them to suffer 
c Acts. 4.  whatsoever the hand and counsel (of God) had determined before to be done. For 
d Acts. 3.  those things which God before had showed by the mouths of all his Prophets that Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled, by the malice of some, and ignorance of others, whom Satan incited, with the greatest contumely and cruelty they could devise, to take Christ's life from him. In all which Christ suffered nothing but what the 
e Acts. 2.  determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God purposed and appointed should be done. For this was 
f john. 18.  the Cup which (his) father gave (him) to drink; and this was the 
g Luke 22.  hour, and power of darkness, when the Prince of the world came against him, howbeit neither man nor devil 
h john 19  could have any power at all against him, but what was given (them) from above. So that in all those wrongs, reproaches and pains which were offered and inflicted on him by the rage of Satan and the wicked, he saw the secret counsel and hand of God punishing our sins in his body, and by that means satisfying the divine justice that was provoked by our transgressions.  
But no where do the Scriptures deliver that God with his immediate hand tormented 
The pains of hell were not the cause of agony.  the soul or body of his Son, much less that he impressed the very pains of hell and of the damned on the soul of Christ; which is your new found Redemption and satisfaction for the sins of men. By his agony in the garden you boldly and rashly presume it; but by what logic you conclude it, neither do I conceive, nor can you declare. Christ was SORROWFUL and AFRAID in the garden, and began to be AMAZED; ergo, you think, he felt, or foresaw he should suffer the pains of the damned from the immediate hand of God. Well these may be your hasty thoughts, but this hath no ground in Art, reason, nature, or Scripture. For many other things Christ might fear; and this of all other things he could not fear. How many things are there in God, when we approach his presence; how many things proceed there from God, when we advisedly mark his counsels and judgements, which may justly overwhelm the weakness of man's flesh with admiration and fear even to astonishment? The brightness of God's glory, the greatness of his power, the deepness of his counsels, the sound of his voice, the presence of his Angels, the sight of his vengeance prepared, or executed on others how many good and perfect men have these things strooken into fears and mazes? When Saint john in the spirit saw the shape of the son of man and heard his voice, he 
i revel. 1.  fell down as dead for fear. When Daniel had seen the vision of the goat and the Ram, he was 
k Daniel. 8.  afraid and fell upon his face, yea he was stricken and sick certain days being astonished at the vision. When the parents of Samson saw the Angel ascend toward heaven in the flame of the Altar, they 
l judic. 13.  fell on their faces to the ground; and one of them said, we shall surely die, because we have seen the Lord. When a light from heaven suddenly shined round about Paul, as he was travailing to Damascus, he 
m Acts 9  fell to the earth trembling and amazed. When Isaac perceived that he had ignorantly blessed jacob in steed of Esau, he was 
n Genes. 27.  stricken with an exceeding great (fear and) trembling. When the people saw the Cripple walking, that was daily laid at the gate of the Temple to ask alms, and knew him to be the same man that before was lame from his mother's womb, they were 
o Acts 3.  amazed and sore astonished at it. jeremy lamenting the misery of the jews, saith; I am sore 
p jerem. 8.  vexed for the hurt of the daughter of my people, I am heavy, and astonishment hath taken me. Even as the Apostle also witnesseth of himself; 
q Rom. 9  I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in mine heart, for my brethren that are my kinsmen according to the flesh. If visions and Angels from God, if the works and judgements of God executed on others have driven the best men to frights and agonies, what marvel then if the human nature of Christ presenting himself in the garden unto the Majesty of his Father to be the Ransommer of mankind, and with his own smart to satisfy the justice of God for the sin of the world, and no way ignorant how weighty that burden, and how mighty the hand of God was, to whose will he must and did wholly submit himself; what marvel I say if the weakness of our flesh in Christ began to be afraid and astonished at the judicial presence and power of God, at the peril of man if he were deserted, and price to be paid for him before he could be redeemed? not that damnation or destruction were prepared or purposed for him that should save us; but for that the hand of God was infinitely able without hell and the pains thereof to press and overpress the manhood of Christ by whatsoever means he would.  
This, you will say, is the pains of hell, and the very same, yea all that which the damned do suffer.] In deed Sir Discourser? doth your skill serve you to make a religious submission to the Majesty of God, and an holy confession of his most mighty power even with fear and trembling, to be all that the damned now suffer, or the self same pain which is sharpest in hell? Do not the godly at all times when they enter into the just consideration of themselves, presently see their own infirmity and indignity, and thereby fall with fear and trembling to confess all sanctity, glory, might, and majesty to be Gods, and themselves to be not only earth and ashes, but even sinful and hateful unto God, if he be not gracious and merciful unto them? And will you call these faithful meditations of God's children giving unto God his due, the pains of hell and state of the damned, because the sense of their weakness and unworthiness breedeth in them fear and trembling? Then make heaven as touching the essence thereof all one with hell, and salvation in substance to be the same that damnation is, because the best learned Fathers confess, that the Angels in heaven do and shall tremble at the voice and judgements of God. 
r Hilarius de trinitat. li. 2.  Ad●…uius vocem Archangeli & Angeli tremunt: At whose voice the Angels and Archangels do tremble; saith Hilary speaking of the Godhead in Christ. Which words Leo the Great doth allow and allege in his 
s Leo epist. 97. ad Leonem August.  Epistle to Leo the Emperor; and they grew to be of that credit, that the effect of them was inserted in the Church service by Gelasius, as Alcuinus doth witness. 
t Albinus Flaccus de divinis offi●…ijs.  Maiestatem tuam tremunt potestates: The powers of heaven do tremble at thy Majesty. Christ 
u Basil. in hexamer. homil. 11.  coming from the heavens (to judgement) every creature shall tremble, saith Basil: the Angels themselves shall not be without fear. for they also shall be present, though they shall give no account to God. At that day (saith chrysostom) 
x Chrysost. ep. 5. ad Theodorum lapsum.  all things shall be full of astonishment, horror and fear. A great fear shall then possess even the Angels, and not the Angels only, but the Archangels, and Thrones, and powers of heaven, because their fellow servants must undergo judgement for their lives led in this world. Will you hence conclude that the Angels and Archangels are or shallbe then in the pains of hell, because they do and shall tremble at the sound of God's voice, and sight of God's wrath to be executed on the world? No more may you infer that Christ did or should suffer the pains of hell and of the damned, for that his manhood began to fear and tremble either at the majesty of God sitting in judgement; or at the power of his justice able to punish by what means, and in what measure pleased him; or at the weight of our sins, for which he did undertake; or at the sharpness of vengeance laid up in store aswell for the jews as all other unbelievers, that should neglect the salvation then to be purchased by his death and passion; since the person of Christ being God and man was far more assured and secured from hell and damnation, than either the Saints or Angels of God are, or can be.  
At least then, you think, Christ feared and felt the wrath of God due to our sins, though outwardly executed on his body.] From Christ's Agony, which might have divers causes, and whereof the true cause is not revealed unto us by the Scriptures, as I have always said, so I now repeat it again; you can conclude nothing for your pains of hell to be suffered in the soul of Christ through the immediate hand of God. They are your blind and bold devices, (I must not say lewd and wicked, because you are so tender, you may not be touched) to bring the true pains of hell, yea the sharpest and extremest of them into this life; and to make the substance of hell nothing but a certain pain inflicted only on the soul by the immediate hand of God: which you think Christ suffered in the garden, where you say, he 
y Defenc. pa. 17. l. 1.  felt as extreme sharpness of pain, as may by any possibility be endured yea though in hell itself; and yet this 
z Ibidem. pa. 21. l. 7.  incomprehensible, unspeakable, infinite and intolerable fiery wrath and pains of hell did neither part his soul from his mortal body, nor so much as break his patience. So terrible you make the torments of hell in words, and so easy in deeds, that the wicked here suffer and endure them without ending their lives, breaking their sleeps, or refusing their food. But the true pains of hell are of an other manner of force, th●…n you dream of. They leave no place for meat, nor sleep; the body must be immortal and not able to die, that shall endure them; they pass all patience of m●…n and Angels. So that howsoever you aggravate your fancy with fiery words, you elevate in truth the dreadful judgements of God against sin, when you make the sha●…pest and extremest of them to be tolerated of our Saviour in this life with patience and si●…ence, as appeared in his sufferings; and the reprobate in the midst of your hell pains to live, eat, and sleep; which in the tr●…e pains of hell were not possible. Austen saith rightly: 
a August. de civita. dei. li. 21. cap. 3.  So is the soul conjoined with this body, that to th●… pains which are exceeding great, it yieldeth and departeth: because the very frame of the members and vital parts is so weak, that they are not able to sustain the force which bringeth great or most sharp pain. Which chrysostom also confi●…meth: 
b Chrysost. ad populum A●…iochen. hom. 49.  Name fi●…e if thou wilt, the sword, or wild beasts, and if any thing be more grievous than these: yet are these scant a shadow to the torments of hell. And these when they grow vehement, are easiest, and soon dispatch men, the body not sufficing to suffer a sharp pain any long while. Your hell pains than are not very sharp, which the wicked may suffer so many years in this life, and not forsake either food or sleep.  
Yet Christ did feel, you say, God's very wrath and proper vengeance for sin, and that only you know, though you c●…n not express the manner or measure of his feeling it. And it was discerned and concei●…ed by Christ to be such, and so did wound the soul properly, yea chiefly; though it were outwardly executed on his bodic.] The wrath and vengeance of God due 
What is God's wrath due to si●…ne.  to sin, and generally to all mankind for sin, is spiritual corporal, and eternal death with all the seeds and fruits of death; that is, the loss of all earthly and heavenly blessings in this life and the next, and the depth of perpetual mi●…ery in body and soul here and in hell. This is the true wages and full payment of sin; and though God of his bounty and patience do often remit to the wicked in this life, a great part of this 〈◊〉 in things tempo all, yet when he inflicteth on them the miseries and cala●…ities of this life, he giveth them their due. And as for spiritual and eternal death now and hereafter, it is so proper and certain to the reprobate, that not one of them shall e●…cape e●…ther. Spiritual death is 
c Ephes 4.  blindness and hardness of heart working all vncle●…nnesse even with greediness; which showeth men to be 
d .  strangers from the life of God, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as past all sense and feeling of God. Eternal death the Scripture calleth WRATH TO COME, because no man suffereth the full force and wa●…ght thereof in this life, but as it is the 
e Reue●…. 2●…. & 21.  second death, so it followeth in men after the first death, which ●…euereth the soul from the bod●…e. Ye vipers bro●…d (said john Baptist to the pharisees and Saddu●…s) 
f .  who hath taught you (thus) to fl●…e from the wrath to come? jesus (saith Paul) 
g 1. I h●…ss. 1.  delivereth us from the wrath to come. In this life the wicked may have a 
h Heb. 0.  fearful expectation, but no present execution, of this judgement; there is a 
i Ro●…. 2.  day of ●…rath, even the revelation of the ●…st judgement of God, when every man shall be rewarded according to his works, and a violent fire shall d●…uoure the adversaries. This wrath by the Scriptures is reserved for the vessels of wrath for ever, and shall be executed on them with indignation, fury and fire; not only because the wrath of God against the wicked burneth l●…ke fire, but for that it shall be powered on them with flaming and everlasting fire. The effects whereof are rejection, malediction, confusion, desperation and such l●…ke, which never accompany salvation.  
To say that Christ suffered this kind of wrath, which is the true and proper wages of sin, is horrible and hellish blasphemy, which I hope no Christian man will adventure. From the spiritual death of the soul, which is the 
k Rom. 1.  wrath of God revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, and bringeth with it the loss of all grace and goodness in this life, and consequently leaveth the pollution and dominion of sin in the soul of man, our Lord and master must be as free as from damnation; the one being always a necessary consequent to the other. Displeasure and wrath against Christ's person God never had, nor could have any; Christ being his own and only son, and so dearly beloved, that for his sake Gods most just and most heavy wrath against the sins of all his elect did calm and assuage: for God's inward love doth not admit contrarieties or changes as man's doth; all God's counsels, ways, and works being absolutely perfect and constant, chiefly towards his own son, whom he naturally, infinitely, and everlastingly loveth in the same degree that he doth himself; and therefore no more possible there should be in god any displeasure or dislike conceived of his son for bearing the sins of the world, or for what cause soever, than of himself. And since the human nature of Christ was by Gods own wisdom, will, and work, joined into the unity of the person of his son, and made one and the same Christ with his Godhead; no cause, nor course whatsoever could alter or diminish the exceeding love and favour of God towards the very manhood of Christ; but as God did inseparably knit it to the person of his son, so did he make it fully partaker of that infinite love wherewith he embraced his son. To confirm this to all the world: God did often from heaven pronounce with his own voice, 
l Matth. 3.  
m Matth. 17.  This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased; as he forespoke by his Prophet, 
n Esa. 42.  Behold m●…e elect (in whom) my soul delighteth. This unspeakable love of God towards the person of his Son now being God and man, is the chief ground of our election and redemption. For we were 
o Ephes. 1.  adopted through jesus Christ, and made accepted in (his) beloved; by whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace. So that we were neither elected nor redeemed, but by the infinite love of God towards his son; for whose ●…ake we were adopted to be the sons of God, and to whose love the fierce wrath of God provoked by our sins did yield and give place; neither may he bear the name of a Christian man, that otherwise teacheth or believeth of our election and redemption. Now judge thou Christian Reader, whether it were wrath or love in God towards his son, that pardoned all our sins for his ●…ake, and accepted the voluntary sacrifice of his body and blood for the redemption of the world, through who●…e death we are reconciled to God, and cleansed by his blood from all our sins.  
Then as in God there neither was, nor could be any displeasure against the person 
Christ did not conceive that God was inwardly displeased with him.  of his Son; nor against any part thereof for what cause soever; nor any change or decrease of the love which God with his own mouth professed from heaven towards Christ incarnate; so could not Christ without plain infidelity conceive or believe that God was inwardly displeased or angry with ●…im, no not when he presented him ●…elfe to God his Father under the burden of all our ●…innes; knowing that neither sin, from which he was ●…ee, being the innocent and ●…mmaculate ●…amb of God; no●… God's most holy dislike, or just pursuit of sin could diminish Gods fatherly affection and most constant love to him. For though he were not ignorant, that God in his holiness did hate and abhor the uncleanness of our sin; and in his justice would pursue it, to witness his v●…ter dislike and detestation thereof; ye●… for so much as Christ himself was holy and undefiled even in his human nature; and did not thrust himself into this action, but was called and anointed by God to this honour, which God would yield to none but to his only Son; and this readiness of the Son to l●…ke and obey his father's counsel and decree, and to pity our misery by laying our burden on his own shoulders; was in itself so glorious to God, and gracious towards man, that it could not b●… but most meritorious and acceptable to God, the Author, and accomplisher of man's Redemption by this means; what cause could Christ have to doubt of his father's love towards him, or of his father's approving and accepting his office and service tending wholly to the performing of Gods will, and advancing of God's glory?  
But God was angry with our sins, though not with his son; and that Anger Christ must bear, before we could be freed from it.] The more Angry God was with our sins, the more contented he was with the person of his Son and every part thereof, that submitted himself to the purpose and pleasure of God to appease his wrath kindled against our offences. And that Anger Christ did undertake to quench, by satisfying the justice of God in such sort as seemed best to God himself, and not by frustrating or declining it, nor by suffering the substance of the same destruction and damnation which was due to us. Yea this very point of Christ's obedience and patience, enduring and so upholding God's justice according to Gods own will, (respecting who he was that in this wise submitted and emptied himself) was far more contenting and pleasing to God, then if the whole world had been condemned for sin to hell fire. For God delighteth not in the destruction of the wicked, but in the obedience of his Son he took infinite delight; not revenging him with rage as an enemy, but imposing a fatherly correction on him for our sins; which in his person could extend no farther, that is, to none other kind of death; and in ours would have been the eternal destruction of body and soul. Wherefore the wisdom and goodness of God chose out the person of his own Son purposely; that neither our sins might be remitted as trifles scant provoking his Anger, nor his justice meet with such as no way deserved to be respected or spared; but that the burden of our sins might be translated from us, who were unworthy of all favour, and lie upon the shoulders of his own Son, whom in all justice he must and did most highly love and tender; and therefore could award no farther or other punishment against him for our sins, than might stand with the moderation and affection of a father, and try the obedience and submission of a son. Sharp was the chastisement of our peace on that part of our Saviour which was capable of pain and smart, lest God should seem to dally with our sins; but not such as either exceeded his strength, or any way changed or called in question God's favour towards him. And so our Saviour conceived and resolved of all his sufferings, that by God's justice they must have in them grief and anguish very painful and offensive to his human nature, because our sins were very loathsome and displeasing to God's divine nature: yet so that nothing should be laid on him, which might overwhelm or endanger his obedience or patience; and that God's purpose in so doing was to abolish sin, and abate his wrath, his justice being thus satisfied in the person of Christ jesus: and not to execute on his own Son the fullness of that vengeance which was prepared for sin in men and Angels.  
And where the Discourser prateth so much of God's VERY wrath, and PROPER vengeance for sin, to be executed on the body and soul of Christ; if he mean the very same wrath and vengeance which is prepared for devils, and shall be executed on all the damned; he openly blasphemeth. For than must the Son of God be everlastingly adjudged to hell fire as they are. If he fly to the substance and essence thereof; he foolishly cau●…lleth, or vainly seeketh to shift his hands of open impiety. For if by substance and essence of hell fire provided for sin, he mean only a sharp and extreme pain; then by this childish sophistry, an headache, or toothache, a fit of an ague, or pang of the stone, if the pain be sharp, are in substance and essence all one and the very same, which the damned now suffer in hell; since he is no way able to prove that God is the immediate tormentor of souls in hell. But thus to mock and delude the dreadful judgements of God against sin, and to play with the person of Christ in so weighty matters of our salvation, is fitter for Pagans then Christians; and well this Discourser may multiply the mist of his words, but he shall never be able thence to der●…e any light of truth. If he mean the very same pain in soul or body which the damned suffer; he runneth headlong into that impiety, which he would seem to shun. For the bodies of the damned suffer hell fire, which Christ's did not; and their Souls apprehend that God is their enemy, and not only hateth them, but hath rejected, accursed, and condemned them for ever; which to imagine of Christ's soul, is to charge him with plain Infidelity and Apostasy. Christ therefo●…e rightly conceived of his sufferings; and knew God to be a gracious and loving father, even to his manhood; though such was the constant course of God's justice, to which Christ submitted himself, that the price of our sins might not ●…e easy in the person of our Saviour; to make us the more wary, how to provoke God's justice hereafter, and to acknowledge ourselves the more bound to him, who with his no small smart redeemed us; and withal to ratify the fearful vengeance of God powered on the wicked to be most just, when as the exchange of our sins was so grievous to the undefiled and well-beloved manhood of the Son of God. Since than God could no way be displeased with the nature, office, or action of Christ in offering himself a ransom for man, which God himself first decreed before all worlds, promised by his prophets, published by his Angels, testified by signs and wonders, and confirmed with his own voice from heaven; and the sufferings of Christ were tempered with God's love, proportioned to Christ's strength, supported with ●…oy, accepted with favour, and reward●…d with all honour in him and in us for his sake; what wound could this chastisement make in the depth of Christ's soul, when it was executed on his body? or what could the soul of Christ conceive more, then that God was in de●…de angry w●…th our sins, and therefore would not accept our persons being in ourselves vnr●…ghteous and odious unto him. And yet in mercy towa●…ds ●…s, and honour ●…wards his Son, God would make him the Redeemer and Saviour of the world, not neglecting his justice, nor forgetting his love, but so mixing them both together, that his dislike of our sins might appear in the punishment of them, and his relenting from the rigour of his justice in favour of his only Son might magnifi●… his mercy, satisfy his wrath, and enlarge his glory; and declare in most ample manner the submission, compassion, and pe●…fection of his Son, as only worthy to perform that work, which procured, and receive that honour, which followed man's Redemption?  
Christ then suffered from the hand of God, but mediate, that is, GOD DELIVERED 
 him into the hands of sinners, who were Satan's instruments, with all eproach and wr●…nge to put him to a contumelious and grievous death: God by his ●…ecret wisdom and justice dec●…eeing, appointing, and ordering what he should suffer at thei●… hands. Our sins ●…e bare in his body on the tree, not that his soul was free from fear sorrow, 〈◊〉, derision, and temptation, but that the wicked and malicious ●…ewes practised all kind of shameful violence and cruel tortu●…es on him by Whipping, Racking, pric●…ing, and wounding the tenderest parts of his body, whereby his soul ●…elt extreme and intole●…able pains. In all which he saw the determinate counsel of God, and received in the garden from his father this judgement for our sins, that he should be 〈◊〉 d●…liuered into the hands of sinners. For had he not humbly submitted himself 
 to obey his fathe●…s will, no power in earth could have prevailed against him; but as he 
 had often foretold his Disciples what the 
r .  Priests, Scribes, and Gentiles should do unto him so when the 
t  hour was come, which was foreappointed of God, to obey 
 his father's will, he yielded himself into their hands; they pursuing him to death, of envy and malice, but God thus 
.  performing even by their wicked hands what he had ●…oreshewed by his 
x .  Prophets, that Christ should suffer. For they not knowing him, ●…or the word●… of the Prophets, fulfilled them in condemning him; yea they fulfilled all things which were written of him. So that no man shall need to run to the immediate hand of God, nor to the pains of hell for the punishment of our sins in the person of Christ: the jews FULFILLED ALL THINGS that were written of him touching his sufferings, and therewith God's anger against our sins was appeased, and God himself reconciled unto us. Esay speaking of the violence done by the jews to Christ, sayeth, he was 
y  wounded for our transgressions and broken for our iniquities, and with his stripes we are healed. (Thus) the Lord laid upon him the iniquity of all us, and he 
z 1. Pet. 2.  bore our sins in his body on the tree; by those sufferings before and on the Cross which the Scriptures expressly declare and describe. And as for the immediate hand of God tormenting the soul of Christ with the self same pains which the damned now suffer in hell, which is this devisers main drift; when he maketh or offereth any proof thereof out of the word of God, I shall be ready to receive it, if I can not refute it: till than I see no cause why every wandering wit should imagine what monsters please him in man's redemption, and obtrude them to the faithful without any sentence or syllable of holy Scripture. I have no doubt but all the godly will be so wise, as to suffer no man to reign so much over their faith with fancies and figures, unwarranted by the Scriptures, unknown to all the learned and ancient counsels and Fathers, unheard of in the Church of Christ till our age, wherein some men applaud more their own inventions then all human or divine instructions.  
The fear of bodily sufferings you think could not be the cause that there 
a Defenc. pag. 12. l. 35.  strained out from Christ much sweat of clotted blood.] You strain the text of the Evangelist to draw it to your bent. Saint Luke hath no such words, that there strained out from Christ much sweat of clotted blood: he saith, Christ's 
b Luc. 22.  sweat was like drops of blood trickling down to the ground. Theophylact a Greek borne, and no way ignorant of his mother tongue, expresseth Christ's sweat in the garden by these words, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Christ's body or face DISTILLED with plentiful drops of sweat. And albeit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sometimes signify the congealed parts of that which is otherwise liquid, and compacted pieces of that which else is powdered; yet often it noteth that which is thick●… in comparison with thinner, or eminent in respect of plainer. Now Christ's sweat might be thick by reason it issued from the inmost parts of his body, and was permixed with blood, or else it might break out with great and eminent drops, as coming from him violently and abundantly, and being coloured with blood and congealed with cold, might trickle down like DROPS or strings of blood upon the ground. Howsoever, the Scripture saith not his sweat was clotted blood, but like to congealed or cooled blood, neither that such clots were strained out from him, but that his sweat being thicked and cooled on his face, fell from him like strings of blood. But grant there could be no reason given of Christ's bloody sweat in the garden, no more than there can be of the issuing first of blood, and then of water out of his side when he was dead; which S. john doth exactly note as strange but yet true; will you conclude what please you, because many things in Christ both living and dying we●…e miraculous? I bind no man's conscience to any probabilities for the cause of this sweat, but only to the express words and necessary consequents of holy Scripture, and yet I wish all men either to be sober and leave that to God which he hath concealed from us, or if they will needs be guessing at the reason thereof (for certain knowledge they can have none) by no means to relinquish the plain words or known grounds of holy Scripture, to embrace a fancy of their own begetting.  
The learned and ancient Fathers have delivered divers opinions of this sweat, which thou mayest see (Christian Reader) in my Sermons, and which we shall have occasion anon to reexamine: every one of them being (as I think) more probable and more agreeable to Christian piety, than this Discoursers dream of hell pains, or Gods immediate hand at that present tormenting of the soul of Christ. And if we look to the order and sequence of the Gospel, we shall find that fervent zeal extremely heating the whole body, melting the spirits, thinning the blood, opening the pores, and so colouring and thicking the sweat of Christ, might in most likelihood be the cause of that bloody sweat. Which S. Luke seemeth to insinuate when he saith, that after Christ was 
c Luc. 22.  comforted by an Angel from heaven, (and so recovered from his former fear, and freed from suffering hell pains, wherein there is no comfort) he prayed more earnestly, (or ardently) and his sweat was (in colour and consistence) like drops (or strings) of blood trickling down to the ground. So that fervency in prayer is set down next before that sweat in the Gospel, as a precedent or cause thereof. Howbeit I only bar the boldness of this deviser, who presumeth what pleaseth him of Christ's bloody sweat in the garden, because the Scriptures do not exactly mention the cause; and think it no reason to let him build on a blind conjecture, a false conceit of his own without any warrant of holy Scripture.  
But I am repugnant to myself, and some where 
d Defenc. pag. 13. l. 27.  I hold that Christ suffered no more but mere bodily pains, that is in his soul from and by his body. 
d Pag. 14. l. 18.  Nevertheless contr●…riwise I seem somewhere to yield wholly so much as you affirm.] I leave that grace to you Sir Discourser, to roll to and fro, and when you have ●…aid a thing after a sense and in a sort, then in another kind to unsay it again; and laying the whole foundation of your cause upon Christ's suffering the wrath of God, neither to bring any proofs, or to show any parts thereof by the word of God; but to play with the terms of very, proper, and mere; and to call that the opening of the whole question. Indeed I every where defend that Christ suffered no death expressed or mentioned in the Scriptures, save only the death of the body; from other passions or sufferings of the soul, as fear, sorrow, shame, and such like, I do not exempt the soul of Christ, when he sustered for our sins; though I leave no place in him for the fear of damnation, sting of conscience, despair or doubt of God's favour, and such other shipwrecks of all faith, hope, patience, and piety. The Cross, death and blood of Christ when I name, I use those words as the Scripture doth, to declare the whole manner and order of his passion from the garden to the grave, as it is described in the Evangelists; not excluding either the fear or agony, which befell him before he was apprehended, but comprising within his death his obedience and patience in all those as●…ictions, which he suffered till he died. And this is no wavering in me, to retain the words of the holy Ghost in their right sense and use; but it is rather a childish dalliance in you, Sir Discourser, to suppose that the death of Christ doth import no more but the very act of giving up the ghost; or else if I by that word design the rest of Christ's sufferings endured at the time of his death by the witness of holy Scripture, you will also hem in your hell pains within the list of the same words, though the Evangelists name or note no such thing in all the history of Christ's pass●…on.  
So likewise in speaking of God's wrath against the wicked I wrap in no Riddles, nor environ the Reader with a windlass of words; but plainly and fairly distinguish it either by the natural virtues and properties that are in God mis●…iking and repre●…sing sin, or by the effects and punishments proceeding from God to revenge the works and reward the workers of iniquity. In the wicked, God's holiness hateth the evil deed, and the doer; that is, both the sin, and the sinner; and by his justice without all love or favour towards them awardeth a punishment against them according to their deserts; which the power of God doth execute on them, not respecting their strength, but rather enabling them to continue in perpetual torments of body and soul in hell fire for ever: Gods purpose being only to revenge sin in them, and to destroy them for their sins; which is most holy and righteous in him, though it be never so grievous and intolerable to them. God's just and full judgement against sin, where and when it pleaseth him to inflict it, is the depriving body and soul of all outward and inward peace and grace in this life for the time, and the rejecting of both from all blis●…e and rest in the world to come for ever; which is the los●…e of God and of all his blessings provided in this life, and the next for his elect. These causes and parts God's anger hath against the wicked for their sins, and to every of these the Scripture beareth witness.  
In Christ God's holiness infinitely embraced the humility, obedience, and charity of his Son offering himself to be the ransommer of man, and perfectly loved the integrity, innocency, and purity of his manhood created, called, and anointed of God to this intent and end, that his death and bloodshedding should be the redemption of the world, though God utterly hated the sins of men, which his son then assumed into the body of his flesh to bear the burden of them, when we could not. Wherefore Gods justice finding the love of the Father towards his Son, far to exceed the hatred of the Creator against the uncleanness of his sinful, but sedused creature, did relent from the rigour of that judgement, which was provided for sin in Angels, and with a fatherly regard and respect to the meanest part of the pe●…son of his son, decreed a punishment for our sins in the manhood of Christ, which was a corporal death, accompanied with the sharpest pains, that Christ might endure with obedience and patience: whose voluntary submission and sacrifice for sin the justice of God did accept as a most sufficient price and payment for all our sins, which in themselves deserved everlasting destruction of body and soul in hell fire with devils. This correction though very sharp yet not overpressing the patience of Christ's manhood, God's justice would not release to his own Son, lest he should seem to make light account of our sin, (if it were remitted only for prayer and entreaty) and without just cause so terribly to punish the sins of the reprobate with all kinds of death, I mean corporal, spiritual, and eternal. And greater or other death, than the death of the body, God by no justice could impose on the person of his Son, since Christ could not be subjecteth to sin, which he must cleanse and abolish in us; much less be rejected from everlasting ●…lisse and joy, to which he must bring us; lest of all linked and chained with devils in perpetual flames of hell fire, for so much as he was the true and only Son of God, for whose sake we all were adopted and made heirs of eternal salvation. And for this cause the power of God, which is otherwise most dreadful to men and Angels, and so was then to the manhood of Christ, restrained itself, and tempered the smart of Christ's pains to the st●…ength of Christ's human nature, not meaning to overwhelm his patience, but to try his obedience to the uttermost. In all which suf●…erings God's counsel and purpose was most favourable and honourable even to the manhood of Christ, the perfection of whose confidence and patience he would demonstrate to Angels and men and propose him a pattern to all the Sons of God, how to humble thems●…lues under the mighty hand of God; and accept his obedience unto death as a most prec●…ous and pleasing satisfaction and sacrifice for the sins of his elect; and reward his humility with unspeakable honour in making him Lord and judge of all, both men and Angels, not only to confound the pride, and supp●…esse the power of Satan, but to adjudge him to everlasting torments with all the wicked and accursed.  
Against the tenor and effect of this Christian confession, which I refer to the judgements of all that be learned & rightly instructed in the sacred Scriptures, I never speak any one word to my knowledge; I cannot in every sentence repeat every circumstance, nor of every page make a pair of Indentures, much less may I forsake the form of wholesome words delivered in the Scriptures. But the main sum and scope of this doctrine being so fully declared and so often repeated by me, I had no reason to fear the capacity, or doubt the memory of any heedful Reader. And howsoever some shallow trifler may pick out a word here and there to carp at, yet are there so many clear places to direct all doubts, that no man needeth to stumble, but he that will not or can not stand upright. For let the Christian Reader look but to the mark at which I aim in every place, and remember these two rules; that of three sorts of death, which only are mentioned in the Scriptures, as the wages of sin, to wit, corporal, spiritual and eternal death; I always remove the two last from the person of Christ by describing or naming the first, which was his corporal death? and in that I contain the whole course and manner of his death, that is, the fears, forrow●…s shames, temptations, derisions, smarts, and pains, which the Scriptures record in the history of his death: and all my words will prove plain and easy, which this ma●… thinketh so false in themselves & so contrary to themselves. Examine my words which he hath brought for examples of contradiction and falsity, and see whether his labour be any more than mere nugation and vanity.  
A●…ouching and proving that Christ could not suffer eternal damnation, which is the full wages of sin, nor the death of the soul, which by the Scriptures must exclude Christ from the favour and grace, truth and spirit of God: and giving the reasons why sin could not prevail upon his person as it did upon others, I conclude; What marvel then if sin, which should have wrought in us an eternal destruction both of body and soul, could not farther prevail in him (that is, to none other kind of death) but to the wounding of his flesh and shedding of his blood, for the just and full satisfaction of all our sins, even in the righteous and sincere judgement of God? In this I free Christ from eternal destruction or death of body and soul, which was the wages of sin in our persons, but could not take hold on his, as the difference there betwixt him and us declareth. I exempted him by proofs in the page precedent from the death of the soul, which was the main scope of that section, and so le●…t him subject only to the third kind 
f Sermons pa. 15. l. 4. ad marg.  of death, which was corporal, and might be suffered not only without all taint of sin, loss of grace, and change of God's favour, but even with great manifestation of God's power and wisdom in his death; and commendation of Christ's obedience and patience unto death. That third kind of death I do not name, but describe by the wounding of Christ's flesh and shedding of his blood; 
g Sermons pa. 4. l. 34.  the rest (of his pains and griefs) that went b●…fore, not being excluded as superfluous, but continued and increased by that sharp and ●…xtreame martyrdom, which he endured on the cross●…, as my caveat touching Christ's Cross did plainly admonish. And since the whole manner of Christ's d●…ath and shedding his blood expressed in the Scriptures, is the thing that I always intent, and the word doth import; when I name or touch the death of Christ▪ all that he voluntarily or violently suffered when he yielded himself to be put to death, ●…s comprised in the mention of his death. Besides that Christ by his bloody sweat in the garden began of his own accord in some sort to effuse his blood for our sakes and safeties, and the efore it could have no just reason to imagine that my words exclude his agony and other passions of the soul mentioned in the Scriptures, specially my very next words affirming, that 
h Sermons pa. 17. l.  the same part might and did suffer in Christ which sinned in man (to wit) the soul, (though) by no means it could receive the same wages which we should have received.  
But I profess by the general title of my Sermons the 
i Defenc. pag. 14  full redemption of mankind by the death and blood of Christ; and commend the j●…ce and fruit of his bodily death as most sufficient] That indeed is very dangerous to your fancy, who hold the joint sufferings 
Redemption by Christ's blood most sufficient.  of Christ's soul from and by his body not properly to pertain to man's redemption, for that they are common to men with beasts, and therefore labour to frustrate all the words of the Holy Ghost delivered in the Scriptures as improper, and impertinent to our salvation; but to me there can be no danger in the truth, nor doubt of the fruit or force of those things which the spirit of God so often and evidently commendeth unto us in the ●…acred Scriptures as the price of our redemption and means of our reconciliation to God. In Christ (saith Paul) we have 
k Ephes. 1.  redemption by his blood even the remission of our sins. Redemption by Christ's blood you will and must g●…ant; the Holy ghost doth directly avouch it: but whether that redemption be full and most sufficient, which is purchased by the blood of Christ, you do make some doubt, or else you need not stick at my words, which import so much. Of that if you doubt, you must bear the name of some other sect, and not of a Christian, for no Christian may doubt whether the redemption which we have by the blood of Christ be f●…ll and suff●…cient or no. To make Christ in part a Saviour, is to make him in part no Saviour, contrary to S Peter, who saith, 
l Acts 4.  There is no salvation in any other. If you will de●…iue our whole redemption from him, but not from his blood shed for us, then give you S. john the lie, who saith, The 
m 1. john 1.  blood of jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin. Cleansing from all sin is full and perfect redemption from sin; and sin being fully remitted and purged, there is no cause of breach between God and us, that should hinder our salvation. Christ by his own 
a Hebr. 9  blood (saith Paul) entered once into the holy place having purchased eternal red●…mption. Fuller or more sufficient than eternal redemption we neither expect, nor ever shall have any; since that which is eternal, admitteth no change nor increase. Then that redemption which Christ hath purchased by his blood, is most full and sufficient by the Apostles testimony; and sooner shall you prove yourself to be no sound Teacher, than that to be no sound dóctrine, which hath so manifest witness in holy Scripture.  
I teach that the 
o Defenc. pa. 14  joint sufferings of Christ (the soul feeling what the body suffered) are most available for our salvation; and that (besides the sacrifice of Christ's body) there is no 
The joint sufferings of Christ most available for our salvation.  other sacrifice of his soul, which can be neither bodily nor bloody.] If I alone did teach thus, and not the whole Church of Christ with me; or if the sacred Scriptures which must guide us all what to affirm and believe in the work of our salvation, did not teach the same; I w●…re worthy to be challenged: but if I say no more than the Scriptures do warrant me to speak, look you Sir Discourser to your late created Creed that can not admit nor endure the words of the Holy Ghost. That the true sacrifice for sin was but ONE and ONCE made, and that it required the BODY, BLOOD, and DEATH of the Offerer, is not my addition, but the Apostles assertion. Christ 
p Heb. 9 vers. 26.  appeared (saith Paul) in the end of the world once to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself; and by reason he was an high 
q Hebr. 7. verse 17.  Priest after the order of Melchisedech, and a 
r Heb. 8. vers. 2.  Minister of the true Tabernacle and Sanctuary, it was of necessity he should have somewhat also to offer, 
s Heb. 10. 5.  Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith (to God) Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not, but a body hast thou ordained me. 
t vers. 7.  It is written of me that I should do thy will O God; 
u vers. 10.  by the which will we are sanctified (saith the Apostle) even by the offering of the body of jesus Christ once. Who after he had offered (this) 
x vers. 2  one sacrifice for sin sitteth for ever at the right hand of God. For with (this) 
y vers. 14.  one offering hath he (consecrated or) made perfect for ever them that are sanctified. That likewise without 
z Heb. 9 22.  effusion of blood there is no remission, and therefore Christ with his 
a vers. 12.  own blood entered in once unto the holy place, and obtained eternal redemption; as also that the 
b vers. 16.  death of the testator must be, where a testament is; in either of these the Apostle is evident and vehement. Now if you (Sir Discourser) can convey these things to the souls proper and immediate suffering the pains of hell from the hand of God, and show how these resolutions of the Apostle pertain properly yea only to the soul of Christ; we shall greatly wonder at your wisdom. For thereby shall you prove, that the soul hath not only a body, but blood also that may be shed, which are miracles, I will not say monsters, both in Scripture and nature. 
c Luk. 24.  A spirit (saith Christ) hath no flesh and bones, as ye see me have. If you can teach Christ that he never knew before, by my consent you shallbe allowed for more than a Creed-maker. Howbeit, you will mar your own market in so doing. For if the soul consist of body and of blood, what shall become of her proper and immediate faculty, of suffering without and besides the body, which you so highly advanced in the beginning, as to make it the proper and principal human suffering? If you shrink from these follies or rather frenzies, as I hope you will, then must you grant the joint sufferings of Christ, I mean the wounding of his body and shedding of his blood even unto death, as the Scriptures describe it, to be the true sacrifice for sin, and consequently most available for our salvation. If you think I exclude the soul of Christ from her part in this bodily and bloody sacrifice of Christ; I have so often said and showed the contrary in my former reply that I am weary of iterating one and the same thing, though you be never weary of mistaking it. My former words I repeat again, that the Reader may see, I have no cause to recant or control them. 
d Conclus. pa. 352. l. 19  The true sacrifice for sin which Christ offered, must have the body, the blood, and the death of the offerer; none of which agree to the soul of Christ, though the body without a soul could be no reasonable sacrifice; and therefore I exclude not the soul, whose obedience, innocence, and patience concurred to sanctify this sacrifice, but I note the parts of the sacrifice for sin by the Apostles doctrine were those, which I named, the blood and death of the Sacrificer, both which must needs be found in his body, and not in his soul. These words you quote in the margin, but you take not the pains to refute them, much less to establish your unbloody and unbodily sacrifice of Christ's soul suffering hell pains from the immediate hand of God. Which kind of offering for sin is as strange to the Scriptures, and to all the learned and ancient fathers as the rest of your unknown doctrine. And therefore you do well to strain still on the same string by censuring what you mislike, and never proving what you affirm, lest you should mar your music, if you should proceed to the parts or proofs of your new found Redemption by the pains of hell.  
Yet 
e Defenc. pa. 14  somewhere I seem to yield wholly as much as you affirm; as where I say, the same part indeed might suffer in Christ which sinned in man, I mean the soul.] Somewhat it is you find so many writers new and old on your side; you here no sooner the suffering 
Christ might suffer in s●…le and yet not hell pains.  of the soul, or the anger of God against sin in any man, but you presently count him under your colours. Even as I make for you, when I write against you, so do the Ancient fathers, and later Divines, whose names you abuse. [But if 
f Defenc. pa. 14. l. 21.  I mean as I ought, then at least I follow your meaning.] It is a piece of your skill, when I speak directly against your fancies, to make men believe I mean as you do, or at least I ought so to mean. Indeed if you may be umpeere what I ought to mean, I shall be sure to jump with your meaning; but look to my words good Sir and measure my meaning by that which I speak, and not by that which you would have me speak. I said Christ's soul might suffer for sin: what collect you thence? I did not add without or with the body, so that all the sufferings of Christ inflicted on his body might be and were impressed in his soul, and you nothing the nearer to your purpose of hell pains suffered in the Soul of Christ. But grant the soul of Christ did suffer for sin without concurrence of the body; must it needs follow, he therefore suffered the pains of hell? how many griefs and pains of the soul are there, not proceeding from the body, which are nothing like nor near the pains of hell? For example in hearty and true repentance how great is the grief and pain of every part and faculty of the soul detesting and abhorring sin, and fearing and feeling the power of God's wrath? and yet I trust each penitent person doth not suffer the pains of hell. Fear, grief, and sorrow then, the soul of Christ might deeply taste when he suffered for sin, and yet be far from the pains of hell. But your collection from my words is more absurd; for where I say, the soul of Christ might suffer for sin, yet by no means could it receive the same wages (of sin) which we should have received; you infer not only without any words of mine, but directlv against my words; ergo I mean, or I ought to mean, that the soul and mind of Christ suffered the pains of hell from the immediate hand of God: and so where I avouch Christ by no means could suffer the same wages (of sin) which we should have suffered; you paraphrase, Imeane, or I ought to mean, Christ suffered the self same which we should have suffered, and of my negatives you make affirmatives, and then tell the Reader I contradict myself.  
But in plain terms I 
g Defenc. pa. 14. l. 27.  allow in Christ all those afflictions and passions of the Soul which naturally and necessarily follow pain; and this ALL reacheth unto more than mere bodily pains; it includeth the soul's proper and immediate pains also.] Where you learned to reason I do not know, but you have the best grace to disgrace yourself that ever I saw; and if this be all the learning you have, you may clout shoes with this Al. Do the torments of hell naturally and necessarily follow pain? then whosoever in any part, or for any cause is pained, suffereth the pains of hell, or at least the souls proper and immediate pains, which you make extremest and sharpest in hell. Babes and boys may thus babble; it is a shame for men to talk so much out of square. Let my words stand simplely as you bring them, and allow in Christ all those afflictions and passions of the soul, which naturally and necessarily follow pain, what conclude you out of them? your sight is very sharp, if you see any absurdity in them. Howbeit you draw my words from their right course and sense, by leaving out what pleaseth you: My words are 
h Sermons pa. 87.  When the ancient fathers affirm that Christ died for us the death of the body only, we must not like children imagine, they exclude the union, operation, or passion of the soul: but in the death of his body and shedding of his blood, they include all those afflictions and passions of the soul which naturally and necessarily follow pain, and accompany death. Christ suffering for us a painful death how could it be otherwise, but such afflictions ●…nd passions of the soul as naturally and necessarily follow pain and accomp●…ny de●…th, should be found in the soul of Christ, unless we give him an insensible flesh or impassiole soul, both which are errors in the nature of Christ? His flesh wa●… sensible, and his soul passable as ours is, because they both were human. Pai●… then and death in my words are plainly referred to the body of Christ, whose ●…lesh could not be wounded and blood shed as his was, but naturally and nec●…ssarily his ●…le must feel the pain thereof. And yet if my words w●…e not limited to the pain of Ch●…sts body, as indeed they are; I see no inconuenienc●… growing from them, nor help for your fancy contained in them. 
* Def●… 14. l. 29  Yet plai●…er (as fauo●…g your error) I say, 〈◊〉, pain, & grief of body or mind be it never so great, will commend Christ's obedie●…ce & patience; And the punishment of sin, which proceedeth from the ius●…ice of God, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that Christ might and did bear. Yea he suffered death, with all painf●…●…ut no sinful 〈◊〉 or ●…onsequents. How good a sempste●… you are, doth well appea●… by your short cu●…ing and ●…ide 〈◊〉 ●…hing my words together. The first sentence you take our of a Section of my 〈◊〉 wherein I purposely show, that not only the pains of hell, but even the fear o●… 〈◊〉 must ●…e far from the soul of Christ. The suffering of hell pains in the soul of Christ, I there refuse as 
 not cons●…t to the Christian 〈◊〉, but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the 〈◊〉 ●…ertaintie, sanct●…ie of Christ's person, 〈◊〉: 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 with God. Immediately after the words which you bring I say, 〈◊〉 Christ there could be●… 
 no apprehension of h●…ll pains as due to him or determi●… for him, but ●…e m●…st 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…are that God would be inconstant or v●…st, which are more than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yea to these very words which you 〈◊〉 I ●…oyne this exception in the same 〈◊〉 but the 
.  sense of damnation or separat●…n from God, or the fear or doubt thereof in Chr●…t as they quench faith and abolish grace, so they dissolve the union and commu●…on of ●…ath 〈◊〉 natures, or else breed a false persuasion and sinful temptation in the soul of Christ. Who can be so sottish as not to see, that my former words import Smart, 〈◊〉 and g●…fe of body and mind which have in them neither sen●…e nor sear of hell pains that is of damnation or separation from God; since no man is damned but unto the p●…ines and place of hell, and is first separated from God?  
W●…th as great discretion you fasten on an other sentence of mine; where though 〈◊〉 ●…position be not general but indefinite, and hath two restraints even from your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; to wit, in this li●…e, where Christ suffe●…ed; in ●… like to us, who a●… his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; you throw off all, forgetting what your sel●…e objected, and whereto I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…nswere, and suppose that here I fully concur with your con●…ites. But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your own objection, and that will rightly guide my solution. Your reason, which you proudly boasted could not be refu●…ed by the wi●… of man, ●…as (as you call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the les●…e to the more. 
 Thus do the members of Chri●… 〈◊〉 the terrors 〈◊〉 God and sorrows of h●…ll.) therefore of necessity Christ suffered the lik●…. P●…ooue you by this A●…gument that Christ a●…ter this life suffered the terrors of God and sorrows of hell? I do you wrong to ●…pect it, for it is open impiety so to think or say. Then do you more wrong to imagine that I extended my words farther than to refel your reason. As you spoke of this life, though you expressed it not; so I replied that the pu●…shment 〈◊〉 s●…nne, which proceedeth from the justice of God (in this life) and is no sin, Christ might and did bear; but in no wi●…e those terrors and fears of consci●…nce, which proc●… from sin, and a●…gment sin. Now I pray you what allowance find you here for your new erected hell, or how force you my words to fit your devices? Terror of conscience, and fear of hell could have no place in Christ, by reason they proceed in 〈◊〉 from r●…morle of sin, weakness of faith, and doubt for the time of God's favour, which we cannot ascribe to Christ without drawing him into the dregs of our sin. And therefore when we compare his suffering with ours, we must always except the roots and branches of our corruption, for that they be taints of sin, and wants of g●…ace neither of which may be admitted in the soul of Christ. Now if I exclude the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and terror of conscience from the person of Christ in the same sentence, which you quote▪ how should my words sound in your ears, as if I admitted the true pains of hell to be suffered in the soul of Christ, which I have often said the wicked do not suffer in this life; much less Christ's members, whence you fet your pat●…e for Christ's sufferings; least of all Christ himself, on whom that vengeance by no justice could be inflicted? The mortal bodies of men and their frail life, are by no means capable of those terrible judgements of God against sin reserved for another world: and howsoever your error leadeth you to adventure the making of a new hell, my resolution is every where occurrent in my Sermons, that no justice of God could award against his own Son the same pains, which the damned in hell do suffer; if we measure their pains by the Scriptures and not by your fancies: besides that the members of Christ are not subjecteth in this life to those torments of hell, which the reprobate in an other place do and shall endure. 
o Rom. 8.  There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ jesus. How then should the Lord jesus himself not only fear, which I there deny, but also suffer the same condemnation to hell pains, which the wicked and accursed do and shall suffer?  

p Defenc. pa. 15. li. 6.  We say not Christ suffered simply all the pains of the damned; he felt not such as are by their very nature sins, as well as pains; as indeed desperation is. ●… When God offereth 
Desperation in hell is no sin.  grace and mercy, as in this world he doth to many; to renounce or refuse is a damnable sin; but in hell where there is no promise nor possibility of either; there to despair is no sin: yea rather there to hope, that God's irrevocable judgement shall be altered, and his settled counsel changed, were to hope that God will be false of his word, and wavering in his will, which indeed is a mighty sin. And therefore neither rejection, confusion, destruction, desperation, nor damnation, are sins in hell, but the just and fearful punishments of sin, ordained by God's justice, and inflicted by God's power; who there requireth no obedience, but only executeth vengeance; the suffering whereof is not sinful, though it be never so painful to the damned, abiding for ever in the pollution and confusion of their sins here committed. So that if my Lordship as you call it, do stand to my words, and not clip them nor renounce them, your Patriarch ship gaineth little by them for your purpose. For I by no means acknowledge that the true pains of hell are inflicted on any in this life; and by no justice could the Son of God be damned to suffer hell pains, either in substance or in circumstance, as the Scriptures describe them. And therefore your vaunting before the victory. depending only on the foolish mistaking, or peevish perverting of my words is as ●…idieulous, as it is vainglorious All you can get is this, that if you can be suffered to wrest my words from their coherence and sense, without respecting what goeth in the same Section before them, or what is joined in the same sentence with them; and then interlace them with other words of your own, serving your turn when mine do not; you can pick out two or three lines in the whole book, that thus abused and corrupted shall sound somewhat towards the secrets of your fantastical hell. By which art of yours you make me say in one section, that the justice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soul (ONLY) by the body; and in the next section, you say I grant, that Christ did bear punishment of sin, (AS GREAT AS ANY IS) proceeding from the justice of God, yet being no sin; and so with adding (ONLY) to my words in the first place, and as (GREAT AS ANY IS) in the second, you have made some show of contradiction in my positions, or at least in your additions.  
Thus much for the examination and refutation of those main divisions and positions which the Discourser hath laid for the foundation of his cause in his general opening of the Question; and likewise for the clearing of those contradictions which he falsely supposed to be in my writings. Wherein if I would have taken the trade which he doth, I could with far more brevity and facility have denied all that he affirmeth, and balanced my no to be every way as good as his yea: but for their sakes that cannot discuss those things themselves, I have not refused more largely and fully to express and prove the truth in each of those points, which he catcheth hold of in defence of his error, and thereby have given the Reader to understand that this Discoursers new doctrine is as wide from the verity, as from the authority of holy Scripture. There remain the particular challenges such as they are, which this impugner maketh to many parts & points of my Sermons, and of my conclusion annexed to them; as also his defence of those special reasons published in his first Treatise, which I refuted as far as needed in the conclusion afore mentioned. In which I mean to spend no more time than necessity forceth me, but to refer the Reader to the places where the things are purposely handled, except some new matter not fully debated be offered unto me, by reason whereof I may sometimes be drawn to make larger proof of some things, shortly but truly before uttered by me; and ignorantly, if not perversely mistaken by him.  
To the Discoursers challenge that I forced my Text by mistaking the cross of Christ for Christ's personal sufferings on the Cross, where Paul meaneth the afflictions of Christ's members in this world; I made in the conclusion of my Sermons a tripartite answer, 1. That the Cross of Christ did always in the Scriptures import the personal sufferings of Christ on the Cross; and never the afflictions of the godly. 2. That the circumstances of the Text convinced no less; which were Paul's earnest renouncing of all joy save in the Cross of Christ, and his vehement opposing himself to those that joined circumcision to the Cross of Christ, lest they should suffer persecution for it at the hands of the jews. 3 That the best and most ancient Fathers, jerom, chrysostom, Austen and others, expounded these words precisely of Christ's death on the Crosse.  
To this what replieth our controuler? The 
q Defenc. pag. 22.  cross of Christ here signifieth I grant Christ crucified, not in his own person only, but also in his members.] Then first you be slipped from your former resolutio delivered in your Treatise, which is no strange thing in your writings. There your words were, 
r Treatis. pag. 32.  I take it to be clear, the Apostle HERE SPEAKETH NOT of the personal sufferings of Christ, but of the godly: You there deny that Paul speaketh of Christ's personal sufferings, but of the godly. Here you affirm he speaketh of both, and lest you should seem to divide them, you add; Paul doth here 
s Defenc. pag. 22. l. 9  jointly together understand by Christ's cross, the afflictions of the whole mystical body, both head and members. A large and long Cross of Christ, that containeth not only his own death and passion, and whatsoever persecution he suffered in his life time, but jointly together all the afflictions of the godly from the beginning of the world to the end. I will not ask you where you find, or how you prove Christ's cross to be so used in the Scriptures; you that take upon you to frame new Redemptions, new hells, and new heavens to your fancy; will not stick to frame a new Cross of Christ, without any Scripture: howbeit know this, all wise will beware of such expositions as have neither example nor ground in the word of God. For though our Saviour sometimes said, If any will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his 
t Matth. ●…6. Mark 8. Luke 9  Cross and follow me; yet he never said, let him take up my Cross and follow me; and Paul who often useth the word Cross without addition, & many times the Cross of Christ, never taketh it in all his Epistles for the afflictions of the godly, but only for the spiteful and shameful death which Christ in his own person suffered on the Crosse. So that howsoever every Christian may be said to take or bear his Cross; the Scriptures no where apply the Cross of Christ, but only to the force and fruit of Christ's death suffered on the Cross for us and our salvation: which is the sense that I affirm Saint Paul here intended.  
But the marks, afflictions, and DYING OF THE LORD JESUS, are used in this and other places of the Scripture, to signify the afflictions of the godly.] Those places have special words adjoined, which can not be referred to the person of Christ, but must of force belong to the speaker or sufferer. As 
u Galat. 6.  I bear IN MY BODY the marks of the Lord jesus, saith Paul: and again, 
x Coloss. 1.  I fulfil the rest of the afflictions of Christ IN MY FLESH. And so, 
y 2. Corinth. 4.  we bear about IN OUR BODY the dying of the Lord jesus. Where these words, in my body, and in my flesh are proper to the speaker, and no way deriveable to the person of Christ. Wherefore the marks, afflictions, and dying of the Lord, must either import a resemblance to the personal sufferings of Christ, or demonstrate the cause for which the Apostle suffered, which was for Christ's sake: and in this is no difficulty, to suffer affliction, in like manner as Christ did, or to suffer it for Christ's cause. But the Cross of Christ, whereof the Apostle speaketh in my Text was that, at which the jews were so greatly offended, for which the true preachers were so sharply persecuted, to which the false teachers joined circumcision for the better attaining of salvation, in which the godly most rejoiced, and by which the faithful were crucified to the world, and the world to them; and all these are proper to the personal death and cross of Christ as he was the Saviour of the world, and not common to the afflictions of the Saints. It was a question of doctrine, not of manners, for which the Apostle so much strived; and the highest point of man's redemption, not of man's perfection, in which he so much gloried. For touching other men's miseries, how should Paul rejoice in them; or how should he by them be crucified to the world; and the world to him? He had good cause to rejoice in the death of Christ though it were never so much maligned and pursued by the jews, because it was the wisdom and power of God to save all that believed; and in his own troubles for Christ's quarrel he might rejoice as having thereby 
z Philip. 3.  fellowship with Christ's afflictions and made conformable to his death: but to rejoice at other men's troubles, that hath no warrant in the word of God. 
a Rom. 12.  Rejoice, saith Paul, with them that rejoice, and weep with them that weep. We may take comfort, and give God thanks that the faithful have grace to endure persecution with patience and courage; but that affliction befalleth them, we may not be glad. For that is to rejoice at other men's harms, which is repugnant to the rule of charity. Neither could Paul be crucified to the world, by other men's troubles long before dead, or then unborn; examples might encourage the weak, but Paul was strong and proposed himself as a pattern of patience, suffering persecution. And therefore this haling into the Cross of Christ the afflictions of all the godly that ever were or shall be, as if the Apostle so highly rejoiced in them, and were crucified to the world by them, is wholly against the hair, and hath neither dependence nor coherence with the Apostles words.  
Besides you do not, or will not understand the main point here in question betwixt the Apostle and those false teachers of the jews, whom he reproveth and refuteth in this Epistle. You say indeed, 
b Defenc. pa. 22. l. 2.  It is manifest the Apostle here (Gala. 6. v. 12.) reproveth the false teachers for mingling the pure doctrine, because they were loath to taste persecution; but you neither tell us what the Gospel was which they thus mingled with circumcision, nor why they feared persecution, nor from whom; which things if you would have specified as the Scriptures deliver them, you should soon have perceived how properly the Apostle addeth for the Cross of Christ, and how rightly I referred these words to the force and fruit of Christ's death, which is the sum and substance of the Gospel. What the Gospel was which Paul preached, appeareth plainly by his own words. 
c 1. Corin. 1. vers. 23.  We preach (saith he) Christ crucified, unto the jews a scandal (or offence) and unto the Grecians foolishness: 
d 24.  but unto them which are called both of the jews and greeks, Christ the power of God, and wisdom of God, to save all that believe. For Christ is 
e 30.  made of God to us righteousness, redemption, and sanctification; to the end, 
f 31.  That he which rejoiceth might rejoice in the Lord. In so much that 
g 1. Cor. 2. vers. 2.  I esteemed not to know any thing among you (saith Paul) save jesus Christ, and him crucified. So that, Christ crucified, the Cross of Christ, the preaching of the Cross, and the Gospel of jesus Christ are phrases of like force used by Paul for one and the self same word of truth, which is the doctrine of our salvation by the death and blood of Christ. 
h 1. Cor. 1. vers. 17.  Christ sent me (saith he) to preach THE GOSPEL not with wisdom of words, lest THE CROSS OF CHRIST should be frustrate. For the 
i 18.  PREACHING OF THE CROSS is to them that perish foolishness, but to us that are saved, it is the power of God. Christ crucified then being the very ground of our salvation, and the Gospel declaring him to be the power of God to save all that believe; evidently the cross of Christ was the main doctrine of the Gospel which Paul preached to the Galathians; and which the false Apostles mixed with circumcision and the righteousness of the law, as well for the advancing themselves being jews, as for fear of their countrymen, who utterly disdained, and eagerly pursued all that taught, a man hanged on a tree as a malefactor, (for so the unbelieving jews conceived of Christ) to be the Saviour of the world, and complement of all Gods promises made to the seed of Abraham for their everlasting bliss.  
The rage of the unbelieving jews against Paul for preaching the death and blood of Christ to be the Redemption of all the faithful is manifest in many 
k Acts 14. 17. 18. 21.  places of the Acts and of his own 
l 2. Cor. 11. 1. Thes. 2.  Epistles; which fury whiles the false Apostles sought to decline, and somewhat to please and pacify the jews, they added circumcision and the observation of the law unto the Cross of Christ as necessary for justification and salvation, without which the death of Christ could do us no good. This error then newly sown among the Galathians (to whom Paul before had preached Christ crucified as the sole and sufficient mean of their Redemption, and justification, through faith in his blood) the Apostle throughout that large Epistle of his written 
* Gal. 6. 11.  unto them with his own hand, doth purposely and mightily confute; and is so far from coupling any thing with Christ as requisite for righteousness or blessedness, and chiefly the law, that he opposeth himself against men and Angels for the truth of his doctrine; and resolveth clean contrary to those false teachers and flatterers of the jewish nation, in most vehement manner; 
m Gal. 5.  Behold I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. Ye are abandoned from Christ, whosoever are justified by the law: ye are fallen from grace. His reasons are urgent and evident. 
n Gal. 2.  If righteousness (could be) by the law, than Christ died in vain. 
o Gal. 3.  And that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is plain; for the just shall live by faith; now the law is not of faith. For all have sinned, and are justified freely by (Gods) grace through the Redemption that is in Christ jesus, 
p Rom. 3.  whom God hath set forth, to be a Reconciliation THROUGH FAITH in his blood, to declare his righteousness by the forgiveness of sins. 
q Gal. 3.  As many (then) as are of the works of the law, are under the curse; but Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law being made a curse for us; (as it is written, cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree) that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through jesus Christ. And that made the Apostle enter this disputation with so sharp a rebuke to the Galathians, for sliding from this Gospel or glad tidings of their salvation in the Cross of Christ, to circumcision and the works of the law. 
r Gal. 3.  O foolish Galathians, (saith he) who hath bewitched you not to obey the truth; to whom jesus Christ was before your eyes described crucified among you? And in this confident course he goeth on with plentiful and substantial proofs; that the Redemption, righteousness, blessedness, adoption, freedom and sanctification of God's children, proceed from the grace of God and of Christ, who 
s Gal. 1.  gave himself for our sins that he might 
t Heb. 2.  taste death for all, and are received by faith in the blood of Christ, which confesseth him to be the Son of God and the only Saviour of the world.  
What marvel then, if in the close of this example, when Paul had showed his care to have the Galathians persist in this truth, in that he wrote so 
u Gal. 6. v. 11.  long a letter unto them with his own hand, which otherwise he did not use; he did also traduce the pride and policy of the false Apostles, who partly to advance themselves because they were jews, partly to shun the envy of their countrymen, frustrated the Cross of Christ, by adding circumcision and the observation of the law unto it, 
x Vers. 13.  not that they themselves kept the law but 
y 12.  only because they would not suffer persecution for preaching the Cross of Christ, which the unbelieving jews so eagerly resisted and impugned; and withal professed of himself, that howsoever they 
z Vers. 13.  rejoiced in the flesh, that is, in the circumcision of the Gentiles; yet 
a Vers. 14.  God forbid that he should rejoice but in the cross of Christ, as the most sufficient mean of man's Redemption, by which he was crucified to the world, and the world to him, what persecution soever he suffered for it? And the verses following, which you pe●…uishly pull to patience in persecution, pertain directly to establish the truth and force of Christ's Crosse. For 
b Vers. 15.  in Christ jesus (saith he, that is, to attain salvation by Christ crucified) neither circum●…sion an●…leth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature; that is, Regeneration in Christ, when the inward man of the hart is renewed by faith through the operation of the spirit. And 
c Vers. 16.  as many as walk according to this Rule of doctrine by preaching and believing the cross of Christ, (for many 
d Philip. 3.  walk (after an other rule) of whom I have often told you, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ) peace be upon them and mercy, and upon the Israel of God, that is upon as many as be Jews within and not without, and have the circumcision of the hart in the spirit not in the flesh, whose 
e Rom. 2.  praise is not of men but of God. And therefore 
f Gal. 6. v 17.  from hence forth let no man put me to business as if I liked or allowed circumcision when and where pleased me. For if I yet 
g Gal. 5. v. 11.  preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? the sl●…inder of the Cross is abolished, and the jews have no cause of offence against me. But 
h 2. Cor. 11.  of the jews five times received I forty lashes, sane one; I was thrice beaten with rods, I was once stoned, I have been in stripes above measure, in prison frequent, in death often. I 
i Gal. 6. v. 17.  bear in my body the marks of the Lord jesus, that is, the signs of these persecutions suffered for his cause, which prove that in preaching the cross of Christ I go not about to please men but God. For 
k Gal. 1. v. 10.  if I would please ●…en, I were not the servant of Christ.  
There is no miscoherence with the Text, nor dissidence from the truth in this exposition which not myself alone but the ancient Fathers and best Divines both old and new have embraced: yea it fully agreeth with the main intent of Paul in this Epistle, with the perpetual use of his words, and with the clear light of other places where like persons and cause were undertaken by the Apostle. You only are found, Sir Discourser, that to show neither learning nor reading, but a presumptuous overweening of your own wit will needs make the Reader believe I understand not the Text. But let us hear your pure conceit, how currently it carrieth with it the words and circumstances of the Text. They urge you to be circumcised, only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ, saith Paul of those false teachers, which perverted the truth of the Gospel among the Galathians by teaching circumcision and the righteousness of the Law to be necessary to salvation. How expound you these words of the Apostle? 
l Def. pag. 23. li. 36.  he may (say you) be understood to say, that he would not suffer persecution for commending the afflictions and shame of good Christians for Christ's sake. You should say, THEY would not suffer persecution, unless you put Paul into the number of false teachers, but that might be the escape of your Printer. Come to your own oversights. First then Christ's personal sufferings are here quite excluded; for Christ I trust shall have an other title with you then the name of a good Christian among the many; and so the cross of Christ in this place by your exposition doth both exclude and include the proper sufferings of Christ. For afore you said, here Paul doth jointly together understand by Christ's cross, the afflictions of the whole mystical body of Christ both head and members. Secondly where ever read you in the Scriptures, that the jews razed persecutions against any, for commending the afflictions of the godly? If it be a truth, name us the place and the persons; if it be a dream of yours, keep it to yourself: the Scriptures can expound themselves without your ●…ansies. That the jews had a furious disdain and hatred against the person of Christ, and specially against the shame and reproach of his cross, and for his sake against all that preached or believed him to be the Messias so long before promised, and his death to be the Redemption of t●…e world, the Evangelists and Apostles every where in their writings give full testimony. Paul himself first persecuting the Christians unto death, and afterward as sharply pursued by the jews for the very same cause, best knew what offence the jews took at the infamous death of Christ on the cross, and how eagerly they were bend against all that durst profess the name of Christ; and therefore could speak in this case out of his own experience; that not the commending of the afflictions of the godly, but the preaching of Christ's death on the cross to be the salvation of the world, was the point that so much irritated the jews to lay violent hands on the Christians. Thirdly did circumcision hinder the commending of the afflictions of the godly? the Apostles and first spreaders of the Gospel, as also Paul himself were circumcised, and yet the chiefest favourers and encouragers of the afflicted Christians, so that circumcision was no impediment to like and allow the afl ictions of the godly. But as Paul saw himself to be most odious to the jews, because they held opinion of him, that he 
m Acts 21.  taught all men every where against the people, the Law and the Temple; (and indeed he boldly professed that in Christ jesus neither 
n Gal. 5. & 6.  circumcision availed any thing nor uncircumcision, and that they were no longer under the Law, since Christ had redeemed both jew and Gentile from the curse and bondage of the Law) so he could not but discern the drift of those false teachers, who to flatter the jews and to claw favour with the enemies of Christ's cross taught circumcision and the righteousness of the law, to be necessary unto salvation, as if the death of Christ without them could profit us nothing. You do therefore not expound, but pervert the words of Paul, which I took for my text; when as he reproving those false teachers, (whom he before confuted) for adding circumcision and the justification of the law to the death of Christ, thereby to mitigate the malice of the jews conceived against the cross of Christ; you turn the Apostles words from doctrine to manners, from preaching to not commending, from the death of Christ to the afflictions of Christians; and so of the highest point of our Redemption, and Salvation by the cross of Christ, you have found out a cold kind of scant allowing the troubles of the Saints.  
But the Fathers (which I brought) overthrow not your sense, they rather justify it.] Whether Augustine, chrysostom, Jerome, and Bede, whom I cited for the sense of this place, do take the word Cross in this very sentence for the personal suffe●…ings of Christ on the cross, which was my assertion; I refer it to the censure of the Reader upon the sight of their sayings, which he may find in the 
o Conclu. pa. 229.  conclusion of my Sermons. I must confess mine eyes be not matches, if they speak not directly to that purpose. Howbeit, you have a special gift to make a short return of all the Fathers with a nihil dicit, when they speak against you. Indeed you are out of your element when you talk of Fathers, for you neither like their credits, nor allow their judgements, as in process we shall more fully show. For the present, to satisfy those that be soberly minded, and to let all men see to your shame, that I took my text right, though you fond seek by your silly conceits to impeach it; mark I pray thee, Christian Reader, whether both elder and later Divines do not concur with me in that sense of Christ's cross, which I avouched to be in Paul's words. Christ was crucified under Pontius Pilate. 
p Aust. de symbolo a●… Catechum. li. 3.  This (saith Augustine) we believe, and we so believe it, that we rejoice in it. Be it far from me (saith Paul) to rejoice but in the cross of Christ. 
q Athana. in p●…ssionem & crucem dom●…n.  Happily some man (saith Athanasius) beholding the Lord and Saviour to be condemned of Pilate and crucified of the jews, will cast down his head for shame. But if we learn the cause why the Lord suffered, we shall cease to blush, and rather rejoice as Paul did in the Lords cross. Ignatius in his Epistle to those at Tarsus where Paul was borne, saith, mindful of Paul; 
r Ignatius epist. 4. ad Tarsenses.  Hold it for most certain, that the Lord jesus was truly crucified, (for Paul saith, Be it far from me to rejoice but in the cross of our Lord jesus) and truly suffered and died. Cyril: 
s Cyrill. de recta fide ad Reginas.  Be it far from me to rejoice but in the cross of the Lord jesus. Paul saith, he rejoiceth in the death of Christ: he knew Christ therefore to be God, and to have suffered for us in the flesh. Theodoret thus expresseth Paul's meaning; 
t Theodoret in galat. ca 6.  Ego autem propter solam salutarem crucem me iacto & mihi placeo. I only boast myself on that cross (of Christ) which bringeth salvation, and therewith I content myself. Theophylact upon the same words of Paul; 
t Theophylact. in Galat. ca 6.  Illi (inquit) circumcisionem hanc gloriae ducunt, à me vero procul sit caeterarum rerum iactantia. Licet in una Christi cruse & morte admodum gloriars. They (saith Paul) count circumcision a glory, far be it from me to boast in other things. It is lawful for me thoroughly to rejoice only in the cross and d●…ath of Christ jesus. Some will ask, How or why dost thou rejoice in the Lords cross? For that he was crucified for my sake, which a●… no body, and loved me so dearly, that he offered himself to death (for me.) Oecumenius; 
x O●…menius in Gala. ca 6.  What is this rejoicing (in Christ's cross which Paul speaketh of?) That for us who were unworthy (Christ) would be crucified; for that is the cause we have to glory. Haymo upon the same place in the person of Paul saith; 
y Haym●… in Gala. ca 6.  I will not rejoice in the riches and dignities of this world, but in the cross of Christ; that is, I will rejoice in his passion which was celebrated on the cross, whence is my redemption and salvation. More I might easily bring, but these for antiquity may suffice.  
The gravest and exactest of the new writers agree with the Fathers. Bullinger: Whereas 
z Bullinger●… in Gala. ca 6.  Paul might have used a simple kind of affirmation, ONLY THE DEATH OF CHRIST is sufficient for me to salvation, he chose rather to express it by the way of detestation, and to say; far be it from me to rejoice, but in the cross of our Lord jesus Christ. Where again the second time, by the cross he meaneth the death, sacrifice, and expiation of the Lord Christ and the whole work of our redemption. Gualther in his 59 homily upon that Epistle saith: Now 
a Gualterus in Epist. ad Gala. homil. 59  Paul opposeth himself to those false teachers declaring how he himself is affected, and upon that occasion repeateth the Sum of his doctrine, touching the redemption and salvation of mankind?, in these words; Be it far from me to rejoice, but in the cross of our Lord jesus Christ. He might have said simply; I rejoice only in Christ crucified, in whose cross I know there is reposed for me life and salvation. But he useth such a kind of speech as teacheth us their insolency was an abominable and capital offence. Calvin, a man for his great pains in the Church of God worthy of great praise, where he steppeth not too much aside from the ancient Fathers, expounding these words of Paul, saith: 
b calvinus in Gala. ca 6.  To rejoice in Christ's cross, is as much as in Christ crucified, but that it expresseth more: for it signifieth that death of Christ's which was full of reproach and shame, and was accursed of God. That death then which men abhor, and whereof they are ashamed, in that death Paul saith he rejoiceth, because he hath perfect blessedness therein. Piscator in his Scholies upon Paul's Epistle to the Galathians, noting what cross of Christ it was for which the false teachers would not suffer persecution, saith; 
c Piscator in schol. super Epistolam ad Gala. ca 6.  Ob crucem Christ's, id est, ob doctrinam evangelii de salute part a per solam Christi crucem; they would not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ, that is, for the doctrine of the Gospel teaching salvation to be purchased by the cross of Christ only.  
There is not a new writer of any judgement or diligence which joineth not with these; and howsoever some of them withal avouch, that Paul meant to show by this opposing himself to these false teachers, that he shunned not persecution for the cross of Christ as they did, but rejoiced in the doctrine of the cross by which the elect are saved, what affliction soever befell him therefore; yet they derive that part of Paul's meaning, not from the confused signification of Christ's cross, as you do; but either from the EFFICACY thereof by which Paul was crucified to the world, and the world to him, in neglecting the flattery and enduring the fury of such as opposed themselves against Christ: or from the CONFORMITY to it, that as he desired to reign, so he was willing to suffer with Christ, and therefore rejoiced as well in the fellowship as in the force and effects of Christ's sufferings on the cross: or lastly, from the CONTRARIETY to the false teachers, that though they adulterated the true doctrine of Christ's cross, because they would decline persecution; it was Paul●… joy to teach sincerely the power of Christ crucified, whosoever pursued him for so doing. This sincerity and duty of the Apostle I am far from denying, but the cross of Christ I constantly refer to the doctrine of man's redemption and salvation by the cross of Christ, that is, by his personal sufferings on the cross, as all those old and new writers do, and not to the troubles and afflictions of the godly, to which if this Discourser dare ascribe the mean or merit of man's redemption or salvation, he falleth from purity to popery, and from the Christian faith to open heresy. Thou seest then, gentle Reader, how sure ground and just reason I had to propose that sense of my text which I did; as also how untruly, unwisely, and headily, this fellow ran first to the challenging of my text, and still upholdeth his humour with his private dream of Christ's cross containing jointly together all the afflictions of Christ and his members from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof; and maketh the false teachers, as fearing persecution for the commending of his conceit, to join circumcision to the doctrine of the Gospel, and so by altering and interlacing Paul's words after his own fancy, he hath hatched at last an exposition without head or heel, which no man understandeth besides himself, and the Divines of all ages both new and old do contradict.  
But I committed another great oversight in handling my text, which was to 
d Defence pa. 24.  take occasion from the text to speak of any thing, for you count them the faithfullest and wisest handlers of Scripture which conclude even from their text firmly and first of all what soever they afterwards teach thereupon.] Indeed I think your manner be to conclude all that you afterward say, even from your text without the help of any other places of Scripture. You be so fast in your conceits, and so loose in your conclusions, that you can infer any thing of every thing. Every word you speak, you tie to your text as firmly as flax to fire: but if you would take the pains once to prove that you say, and not only to say that which you should prove, you would find great difference betwixt the firmness of a fancy in which you be so resolute, and of an argument which for aught I yet see in your writings, you scant make not understand. And where you quarrel with such handling of texts as is usual in these days, but no good nor commendable use, your reading must be greater and judgement better, before you take upon you to control the Preachers of England for mishandling their texts. Many hundreds there are of whom you may learn both how to divide and how to pursue your theme; your skill is not such, that you should profess yourself a Method-master to this Realm. When I took occasion from my text to lay down first the contents, than the effects of Christ's cross, as the Scriptures did deliver them; that is, what Christ suffered on his cross for us, and what he performed by his cross to us; say good Sir out of your new found art, what fault you find either with the matter or with the method. [Christ's cross, you say, signifieth here no such thing, but the afflictions of Christ and his members.] That is the vanity of your error; that is not the truth of my text. Christ crucified in his own person for man's redemption, is the full purport of Christ's cross in my text; as in my Sermons I shortly declared; in my conclusion I more amply proved; and now I trust I have therein fully satisfied the Reader. That standing good, I note what Christ suffered; which I call the contents of his cross; and to what end he suffered, which are the effects of his cross; both these are aptly and fairly closed in my text, and by other places of Scripture justly proved to be comprised in my text. This forsooth your mastership liketh not, but I must make syllogisms out of every word contained in my text, or else I make the Scriptures such an instrument as they ought not to be. Silly Sir you understand not what you say: first learn, and after teach, lest you teach that you never learned. When it is said, 
e Matth. 22.  Give unto God the things which are Gods, can you out of these words without the aid of other Scriptures, firmly conclude what things are Gods, and how they must be given unto him; or must you prove that by other places of holy Scripture? Even so when I had showed what was justly enclosed within the words of my theme, I made direct & full proof thereof by other places of holy writ; which I take to be a sound and sure way of well using the Scriptures, to that very purpose they should be applied, notwithstanding your palterie provisoes, that no man must after speak any thing that can not firmly be concluded by the sole and single words of his text; which is a rule fit for such a Rover as you are, that never sound prove any thing; but not for him that will fully divide and rightly deliver, as well the sense as the sound of any sentence of holy Scripture which he taketh in hand to unfold.  
To show yourself a firm and fine concluder upon texts, you exemplify your skill, and infer that in three special points, I myself 
f Defenc. pag. 25.  by my very text overthrow myself, in the first entrance as all men may see: First, in that I expressly grant, the proper sufferings of Christ's mind may rightly be in the contents of his cross, contrary to my main opinion, that Christ's bodily sufferings ALONE were the full price of our redemption. Secondly, that Christ's soul in a large sense may be said to be crucified, if I suppose my text to signify the whole contents of Christ's cross, which I reproved in you with great contempt. Thirdly, in that I quite overthrow my second question: for if it be a detestable thing to rejoice but in the cross of Christ, than Christ's descent to hell after death must either be a part of the contents of his cross, and so he must suffer among the devils and damned spirits, or else he did us no good there, if we may not rejoice in his descending thither. These jars in myself, you say, I must reconcile, else men will think, I have not handled my text indeed very rightly.] These jars good Sir, for so much as concerneth me, are soon reconciled. Your first objection is a plain falsity, your second an open folly, your third a mere mockery. The contents of Christ's cross I extended to those griefs, wrongs, and pains, which Christ suffered in his passage to his cross, as namely his submission in the garden, his apprehension, accusation, illusion, flagellation, condemnation and such like, all which he felt before he was fastened to the tree; and though indeed they were precedents to his cross, yet because the grief and smart of them continued and increased with his hanging on the tree, the Scripture doth not exclude them from the cross of Christ, which often meaneth by that word, the whole course and manner of Christ's death and passion, as well in coming to his cross, as in hanging on his cross. As for the proper sufferings of the mind, those be none of my words; yet if you thereby mean care and fear, shame and sorrow, not repugnant to the condition and perfection of Christ's person; let them in God's name come within the contents of Christ's cross as antecedents or consequents to the pains which he suffered. But if under the proper sufferings of the soul you convey the suffering of hell pains, or the death of the soul from the immediate hand of God, which is your dream; keep your errors for your own accounts, my words have no such matter nor meaning.  
How then 
g deafen. pa. 25. li. 6.  can my main opinion be true that Christ's bodily sufferings ALONE were the full price of our Redemption, which I would also ground on all the Fathers though very untruly?] How can your objections be weighty that speak never a true word? By Christ's bodily sufferings I no where exclude either the sense, consideration, or affection of the Soul, discerning the pains which, and the cause why the body suffered, as you falsely imagine; I only except the death of the Soul and pains of hell in Christ's sufferings; and to bar that, I show by many sufficient testimonies of the ancient Fathers, (which you shall never overbear for all your brags,) that Christ died for us the death of the body only, and not the death of the soul. In this case I use the word ONLY, as hath been often told you; otherwise to exclude the union, operation, or passion of the soul from Christ's sufferings, I never use it. And where I so often and instantly urge that Christ's death, and bloodshedding are specified in the Scriptures as the full price of our Redemption, and true means of our reconciliation to God; You foolishly by their fullness would turn out all the rest of Christ's sufferings as superfluous; but my words throughout my sermons are express to the contrary. 
h Sermons. pa. 63.  The cross, blood, and death of Christ are every where mentioned in the Scriptures, as the very groundwork, and pillars of our Redemption. And the things which are named in the Scriptures as they were the last, so are they the chiefest parts of Christ's sufferings; the rest being understood as antecedent to them, and not eminent above them. So that by the death and blood of Christ I neither did nor do exclude the rest of his sufferings before he came to his cross; only I make them Antecedent to that, not eminent above that which he suffered on the cross. For as the end of every thing presupposeth a beginning and a middle, and the highest stair doth orderly confirm there are lower greeces; so the fullness of Christ's obedience and our Redemption performed by his death and bloodshed on the cross, doth not exclude the rest of his antecedent sufferings from the communion of his merits, or cause of our salvation, but only noteth that his obedience, and patience on the cross even unto death as it was the last, and the sharpest, so it was the chiefest and acceptablest part of the sacrifice which he offered for the sins of the world. Though then as you have used the matter by adding PROPER (to the) sufferings of the mind, and ONLY to the sufferings of the body, you make some show of repugnancy in my positions; yet when your miscoloured and misconstrued patches are returned to their owner, my opinions stand sound in themselves and consonant each to other, and have that reference to my Text which I first expressed.  
But Christ's soul in a 
i Defenc. pa. 25.  large sense may be said to be crucified if we suppose this text to signify the whole contents of Christ's cross; which I reprove in you with (such) contempt.] It is an Idle skill and dangerous trade in you and your assistants, when the necessary parts of Christ's satisfaction, and essential points of our Redemption come to be questioned; for you to bring your inventions, besides the Scriptures and without, if not against the faith, and then to vouch it may be said in a large sense; that is by a metaphorical, hyperbolical, or metonymical understanding. In exhortations we permit many things to Divines, which in positions of faith are utterly unlawful. So long as the words of a persuader may receive any true construction, be it proper or figurative, we bear with his vehement and sudden affections; but in determinations of doctrine, and conclusions of faith, all men require plain and proper speech, that the truth may appear and not be shadowed and obscured with dark and doubtful riddles. If your hell pains in Christ's soul and the death of Christ's soul, be but phrases of speech first devised by you, you should not so much strive for them being no where mentioned, nor applied to Christ in the sacred Scriptures; but if they be matters of faith, and sufferings requisite by God's justice for man's salvation, as you bear the world in hand; why now when you see the falsity and absurdity of them justly reproved, come you in with a large sense, a kind of speech, which in resolutions of faith is not tolerable? I have no doubt but figuratively the soul of man and the Son of God may be said to be crucified every day. For not only the 
k 1 Cor. 2.  Lord of glory was once crucified by the jews; but there are that 
l Hebr. 6.  crucify again to themselves the Son of God, even such as willingly fall from the truth. And that the desires and delights of the soul may and must be continually crucified, the word of God is evident. 
m Gal. 5.  They which are Christ's, have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts; not by fastening their bodies to the tree, but by 
n Coloss. 3.  mortifying their earthly members, as inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, covetousness, and such like which have their seat principally in the soul. 
o Gal. 6.  The world is crucified to me, and I to the world, (saith Paul) when he meaneth that his hart despiseth for Christ all the baits and threats of the world. In a large and figurative sense therefore, Christ's soul may be said to be dead and crucified, and so may the devil be said to be God, for the Scripture calleth him the 
p 2. Cor. 4.  God of this world; but I hope these may not go for positions of faith, nor for Articles of Christian Religion, without believing of which we can not be saved.  
From the word Cross to crucified is an argument, you think à Coniugatis, as from words of the same force and inflection; and therefore if Christ's soul were partaker of the cross, it was also crucified.] From being fastened or nailed to the Cross unto crucified is indeed a good consequent in the proper signification of the word; for so much doth Crucifigi import, whence Crucifixus cometh: but from the Patients, instruments, or the precedent or consequent circumstances of the Cross, which yet are enclosed in the contents of the Cross, to being crucified, is such an Argument as none but you would make. The disciples flying, Peter forswearing, Pilat's wife dreaming, the Mari●…s sorrowing, the women of jerusalem weeping, Simon of Cyrene bearing the Cross, are all within the contents or precedent circumstances of Christ's Cross, and yet it were stra●…ge Logic to say they were all dead and crucified. The sword and staves that were brought to take him, the cords that bound him, the whips that were made to scourge him, the thorns that crowned him, the nails that fastened him, the wood that bore him, the lots cast on his garments, the sponge that was filled with vinegar to give him drink, the spear that pierced his side, are all within the contents of his Cross: Shall we thence reason, and say they were also crucified? only his body was fastened to the Cross, in which respect the whole person is said to have been crucified; and the pains which he suffered before in his body & brought with him to the cross, are properly contained in his crucifixion, by reason they continued in his body when it was nailed to the Crosse. The rest of the wrongs & pains which he suffered, are figuratively comprised in the name of Christ's Cross, because they were antecedents to his Cross, or else the name of Cross is largely taken for all manner of affliction, which befell him after his last Supper, when once he yielded himself to be prepared as a sacrifice for the Crosse. But what is this to the death of Christ's soul, or how doth it any way prove that in soul he must suffer the pains of hell before he could redeem us?  
At least yet; I quite overthrow my second question, that Christ after this went down into Hell. For either Christ got us no purchase in hell, for which we should rejoice; or else I must extend the cross of Christ, and his bitter sufferings, even unto his being in hell, among the devils and damned spirits, before we may rejoice therein] A conclusion fit for such a Clerk as you are, that can neither distinguish things different from things pertinent to the cross of Christ, nor see the coherence betwixt the cause and effects of Christ's sufferings. In that I observed, the Apostle made it a thing detestable to rejoice in any thing else but in the cross of Christ; I followed therein, chrysostom, O●…cumenius, Theophylact, Bullinger, Gualther and others, whose little fingers I take had more learning and judgement than your whole head; neither do I see what you bring against it, but the opening of your own folly. For first there be things coherent to the cross of Christ, and things different from it. He that rejoiceth in the cross of Christ, doth also rejoice in every thing that is necessarily by God's power and ordinance adjoined unto it. For no man can rejoice in the cause, but he must likewise rejoice in the effects; and where the Antecedent is expressed, the consequent is therewithal intended. Now the cross of Christ in itself without the effects, was and is most odious and scandalous to men, as appeareth by the jews and Gentiles ignorant thereof, and offended therewith. So that when the godly profess they rejoice in the cross of Christ, they mean in the love of Christ, who willingly endured the pain and shame of the cross, to purchase them everlasting bliss, and therewith procured and established all the means and parts of their Redemption, justification, and sanctification in this li●…e, and salvation in the life to come: and, but in respect of Christ's love submitting himself to the cross, and of those effects merited and obtained by the cross of Christ, they take no pleasure, much less joy in his griefs and torments, as the wicked did that put him to death. Wherefore it was an easy thing for every child to see, that when the Apostle rejoiced in the death of Christ suffered for us and for our salvation, he also rejoiced in the consequents of Christ's death, as his Resurrection, ascension, sitting at the right hand of God, and promised return to judgement, by which as by certain degrees and steps, our justification, mortification, sanctification, and salvation, are assured and performed. Now a consequent to Christ's death, if not a part or preamble to his Resurrection from the dead, is the destruction of the devil, and of hell, which is the chief place of Satan's power as I think, and as the Church of Christ before me hath thought, notwithstanding all that you have said, or can say to the contrary. Thus standeth my Text neither forced, nor misapplied, as by your joint mystical imagination of a new cross you supposed, but rightly both conceived and referred to the painful sufferings and powerful effects of Christ on the cross; in which the Apostle so rejoiced, that he detested all things different from it, or derogatory to it: and the jars which so much offended your ears, were but your own jests and 
* Follies.  iefallies not truly reporting, but grossly mistaking the sense and sequels of my positions.  

q Defenc. pag. 25. l. ult.  Proceeding forward, I still show a bad mind towards you, seeking forthwith even in the entrance to draw you without cause into hatred for disdaining the Fathers. What then is your contempt and disdain of the Fathers, which I so often report in sundry places, and as odiously as is possible? Surely you believe I can not tell, happily it is because you follow not their authorities in some opinions of religion, nor in divers expositions of Scripture.] What need you seek so busily for that which I so plainly have exemplified unto you? you afford the Fathers when pleaseth you, neither true knowledge of the first principles of their faith, nor the right understanding of words familiar in their native tongue, nor so much as reasonable or likely expositions of the Scriptures, but fond and absurd as you term them; and yet you ask What is your insolent dealing against the Fathers? With one consent they teach that for our redemption Christ died the death of the body only, and by no means the death of the soul: You teach that Christ must die the death of the soul before he could redeem us, and that his bodily sufferings 
r Treat. pa. 18. l. ultim.  properly did not make to our redemption. And though Austen ask, 
s Austen. Epist. 99  Who dare avouch that Christ died in soul, or in his human spirit? you not only dare and do it, but you make it the main ground of our redemption: wherein you condemn him and the rest of the ancient and learned Fathers as ignorant of the very way and mean of our redemption. So likewise, that Christ received upon him the punishment, but not the guilt of our sin; that the second death in the Scriptures is the eternal punishment of body and soul; and that the death of the body was inflicted on Adam and all his posterity as a punishment of sin; in these and many such, which are delivered as sound conclusions of Christian religion, you oppose yourself against S. Austen and the rest, and reject their judgements as false and erroneous. And for the sense and signification of words used in the Scriptures, you lustily control them in their native speech, and leave them not so much as the true understanding of the Greek or Latin tongue. This 
t Trea. pa. 95.  I affirm, say you, it is only the Father's abusive speaking and altering the usual and ancient sense of Hades that bred this error of Christ's descending into hell: their unapt and perilous translating into Latin Inferi. 
u Ibid. pag. 96.  And note here first, it is a thing too rife with the Fathers, yea with some of the ancientest of them, to alter and change the authentic use of words; whereby consequently it is easy for errors and gross mistake to creep in.] This challenge of yours against the credits and consciences of so many learned and worthy Fathers as have used the word hades to signify the place of hell, how insolent it is, I leave to the wise Reader to judge, when he shall see that indeed they concur with the writers of the new Testament, and with the ancient and vulgar understanding of their own tongue. How you entertain their expositions of the Scripture, your own words do witness, when you reply to interpretations alleged out of them; 
x Trea. pa. 66.  this sense is most absurd; 
y 67.  this is no less absurd than the former, there is no reason, nor likelihood for it. 
z 68  This is more fond and absurd than the other. This is the reverence and loving regard you bear towards their opinions and judgements for the manifold graces of God that were otherwise in them; and this you think is no contempt, nor disdain of the Fathers.  
I call the Father's judgements many times AUTHORITIES, that 
a Defenc. pag. 26.  the world might conceive their words to be warrants unto us, and good authorities to rest on in matters of Religion. If I had not this drift in my mind, why give I them such a title, which to you seemeth somewhat insolent indeed. What difference there is betwixt the authority of God and man in matters of religion, I need not to learn, nor you to teach; there is no such thing in question betwixt us: S. Austen hath long since in 
b Austen. contra Fausi. Ma●…ich. li. 11. ca 5. & de Baptis. contra Donatist li. 2. ca 3. & E●…ist. 19 & in prooem. 3. li. de Tri●…tate.  sundry places of his works, humbly, truly, and fully confessed and professed the eminence of the Canonical Scriptures above and against all the writings of others, whosoever they be: with him I wholly join in judgement. This therefore is an idle shift of yours, to guess what drifts I have in my mind, and that I go about to impair the sovereignty and certainty of the Scriptures, by giving such a title to the expositions and opinions of the Fathers, as to call them Authorities. As though the best learned Divines both new and old, did not use the same word in the same sense and case that I do. Peruse the labours of that learned Father, Bishop jewel, and see how often in his Reply to Harding, and his Defence of the Apology, he calleth the testimonies of the ancient Fathers and Counsels Authorities. We 
c R●…plie. pag. 95.  rest (saith he) upon the Scriptures of God, upon the Authority of the ancient Doctors and Counsels. And again, to 
d Ibid. pag. 149.  reckon up the authorities of antiquity it would be infinite. The half communion by the authority of Gelasuis may well be called open sacrilege. In the conclusion of the same book, 
e In the answer to Hardings conclusion.  I grant you have alleged authorities sundry and many such as I knew long before. Verily I never denied but you were able to bring us the names and shadows of m●…ny Fathers. You have defended the open abomination of your stews by the name and AUTHORITY of S. Augustine. You have sought up a company of new petite Doctors Author's void of Authority, full of vanities. In the conclusion of his defence of the Apology, 
f The conclu●… to H●…ding.  my Authorities of Doctors and Counsels as you have used them, are few enough. What meant you in favour of open Stews to show us the name and AUTHORITY of S. Augustine? Peter Martyr against Smiths books of the singleness of Priests, sayeth. 
g Peter Martyr de votis & c●…libat. fol. 474.  In judging of things obscure, we must have two ways or means to direct us; one i●…ward which is the Spirit, the other outward which is the word of God. Tum si ad haec patrum etiam authoritas accesserit, valebit plurimum; to these if the authority of Fathers be joined, it is of great force. So Chemnitius in his examination of the Tridentine Council. 
h Chemn. in 1. part exami. concilij trident. cap. 6. genus traditionum.  Quod de patrum authoritate sentimus, etiam ab ipsis Patribus didicimus. That which we hold touching the authority of the Fathers, we learned of the Fathers themselves. Where also he teacheth you this Rule worth the noting for your new found Redemption and the rest of your novelties. 
i Ibid●….  Sentimus etiam nullum dogma in ecclesia no●…m, & cum t●…ta antiquitate pugnans recipiendum. We also confess that no point of Doctrine which is new to the Church, and repugnant to all antiquity, is to be received.  
If the Fathers themselves will better please you, I want not their example for the use of that word which so much offendeth you. Jerome in his Epistle to Damasus in very earnest manner maketh this petition, 
k Hiero ad Damas'. Epist. 57  Vt ●…ihi epistolis tuis sive tacendarum, sive dicendarum hypostase●…n detur authoritas; That AUTHORITIF may be given me, saith he, by your letters to use or refuse the word hypostases. Vincentius in his book against heresies moveth this question. 
l Vincentius adverse. Haereses.  Here some perchance will ask, where as the Canon of the Scripture is perfect, and abundantly sufficient in itself for all things, quid opus est ut ei ecclesiasticae intelligentiae iungatur authoritas; what need is there that the authority of the ecclesiastical interpretation should be joined with it? The effect of his answer (which is good for you to observe, that claim such liberty for yourself to expound the Scriptures at your pleasure) is this, lest every man should wrest the Scriptures to his fancy, and suck thence not the truth, but the patronage of his error. Saint Augustine that is every where careful to yield the Scriptures their due reverence, yet giveth the word Authority, to the decrees of Counsels and writings of godly Fathers before his time. Speaking of general Counsels he saith, 
m August epist. 118.  Quorum est in ecclesia saluberrima authoritas, Whose authority is most wholesome in the Church. And alleging the testimonies of Irenaeus, Cyprian, Hilarius, Ambrose, Gregory, chrysostom, Basil, and others against julian the Pelagian he concludeth; 
n Idem contra julianum P●…lagianum li. 2. cap. 9  Hoc probavimus Catholicorum authoritate sanctorum; this have we proved by the authority of Godly Catholic men; ut vestra fragilis & quasi argutula novitas sola authoritate conteratur illorum; that your weak and sleigh novelty might be overwhelmed with their only authority. For your contumacy is first to be repressed by their authority. 
o Ibid. cap. 10  With these testimonies and so great authority of holy men, thou must either by God's mercy be healed, or else thou must accuse the egregious and holy Doctors of the Catholic truth; against which miserable madness I must so answer, that their faith may be defended against thee, even as the Gospel itself is defended against the wicked and professed enemies of Christ. If then this word seem insolent to you which is so frequent with the best Divines of former and latter times, let your Reader judge whether it be ignorance or insolence in you to stumble at so plain a word, as if the religious and ancient Fathers, and lights of Christ's Church were not worthy with you to be counted learned Authors, nor their testimonies to be named Authorities fit to guide and lead others to the knowledge of the truth.  

p Defenc. pa. 27.  I trust no advised Christian will challenge more authority to the Fathers than was given, (by those of Beraea) to the Apostle, nor deny indeed to any private man, much less to a Minister to judge and discern in themselves not only the words of men, but even of the sense and meaning of the Scripture by the Scripture itself, which thing the Beraeans did, and are commended by the holy Ghost for it.] I trust you claim no power to judge of the Scriptures; you may discern the truth there written, but with necessity to believe, not with liberty to judge. And if by your freedom you fasten on falsehood, it is no excuse for you, but a condemnation unto you. Saint Austen speaking of the books of the Prophets and Apostles saith, 
q August contra Cr●…um gra●…aticum li. 2. cap. 31.  quos omnino indicare non audeamus, which we may not dare at all to judge. And where you say the Ber●…ans are commended by the holy Ghost for not believing that Paul spoke touching Religion, till they had examined by the Scriptures and seen whether the truth were so as he uttered; You speak not one●…y unwisely and untruly, but if you would have Christians to follow that course, you show intolerable pride against the word of God: for the Beraeans were commended (when as yet they neither believed in Christ, nor acknowledged Paul's Apostleship) for their readiness to hear, and care to search whether Paul spoke truth or no. This if you now assume to yourself over Paul's words or writings, you incur the crime of flat impiety. Paul's words to us that believe, without further search or other credit, are of equal authority with the rest of the Scriptures; and not to believe him, till we examine and see the truth of his doctrine, is mere infidelity. 
r Galat. 5.  Behold, I paul say unto you, must suffice all Christians, and if 
s Galat. 1.  an Angel from heaven preach otherwise than he preached, we must hold him accursed. For our comfort that believe, and to persuade them which as yet believe not, we may search and see the consent betwixt the Prophets and Apostles; yea the son of God sent men to the writings of Moses and the Prophets, not as wanting sovereignty and sufficiency in himself above all Prophets, but leading them that knew him not, to consider better of those Scriptures which they knew. It is as true of Paul's writings, as of the rest of the Apostles and Prophets, which S. Augustine affirmeth; 
t Aug. epist. 19  De quorum scriptis, quòd omni errore careant, dubitare nefarium est. Of whose writings to doubt whether they be free from all error, is plain wickedness.  

u Defenc. pa. 28.  Nevertheless I well perceive that all this great show of cleaving to the Father's judgements is but coloured in you. For in other points again we see when they speak not to yoúr liking, the case is altered. 
x Ibid. pag. 29. The Fathers may be left in some private opinions.  I see in this book where you forsake the ancient and learned Fathers, that is, as you speak in my case, you con●…mne & despise them. The more unjust then and injurious was your slander, that I went about by the use of one word, which old and new Divines used in like sort before me, to make the Fathers of equal authority with the Scriptures: since now you can both observe and object, that even in this book which you impugn, I say and do the contrary. And though I be far from repenting or misliking any thing that I said touching the prerogative of the sacred Scriptures and their irrefragable authority against all the words and wits of men; yet can I not choose but note your negligence, that mark neither what, nor of whom I speak. Had I brought Fathers in matters of faith against or without the Scriptures, you had some colour to choke me with mine own words; but taking care as I did, that in cases of faith the Scriptures should be plain and perspicuous for my purpose before I cited them; and the testimonies of the Father's evident and concurrent with the Scriptures; how do I cross any of those places which you quote out of my writings touching the authority and sufficiency of the Scriptures in points of faith? or what agreement hath your dissenting from the Scriptures and Fathers in the chiefest keys of Christian religion, with my leaving them in some expositions and positions not pertinent to the faith nor generally received of them all? It is vanity enough to dream of contradictions where none are; and as great infirmity not to see that which lieth before your eyes: but to pronounce, that you know how 
y Defenc. pa. 20. li. 12.  wavering and slippery I am for the most part therein, when you neither consider nor conceive what I say, that is more than childish temerity. As I said, so I say again; In God's causes God's book must teach us what to believe, and what to profess; and therefore what I read in the word of God, that I believe; what I read not, that I do not believe. Yea, I add thereto S. Basils' conclusion: 
z ●…asil. ●…oral. Su●…●…0. ca 21.  If all that is not of faith, be sin, as the Apostle saith; and faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; all that is without the Scripture inspired from God, as not being of faith, is sin. This confession I constantly hold, and as in the first book which you quote, I directly and expressly defend, that no point of faith should be believed without Scripture, so in my Sermons I no where vary from it, how slippery soever your tongue be to tell a tale in stead of a truth.  
I do 
a Defenc. pa. 29.  reject Austin's opinion in three special points, and divers Fathers in two other cases, and some of those things I affirm against all the Fathers, and almost against all the Church; and yet I bitterly reprove you for using the like liberty. Do I any where reject S. Augustine or all the Fathers in any point of doctrine necessary to our salvation, as you do in the chiefest grounds of our redemption? And when I let the Reader understand, that the reasons which some Fathers bring to fortify their private opinions, are not sufficient for to force consent to be given unto them, do I call them fond absurd without reason or likelihood, and paradoxes in nature, as you do? These two things I justly reprove in you, which I myself do not fall into for all your fitning. In the main principles of Christian religion and our redemption, you make the best learned Fathers ignorant of their Creed and Catechism; and when their expositions of the Scripture cross your imaginations, you Revel against their judgements as void of sense and reason. This do●… I not; In the rule of faith I renounce not their main consent nor undoubted maxims, lest I conclude them or myself to err in faith: In other questions of les●…e importance wherein they differ sometimes from each other, sometimes even from themselves, I let the Reader see their reasons, and leave him free to follow what he liketh, or to suspend his judgement, if he find cause therefore. This liberty I never take from you, nor mislike it in you; but when you pronounce all to be absurd, fond, and foolish, that yield not to your fancy: wherein you do not only proudly advance your own dreams as necessary Doctrines, but reproachfully prejudice the freedom of others. This difference is not my devise: the 
b Vincentius adversus Haeres●…s.  ancient consent of Godly Fathers (saith Vincentius) is with great care to be searched and followed of us, not in all the questions of the Divine Law, but only or chiefly in the Rule of Faith. Whether therefore the bodies of such as arose and came out of their graves after Christ's resurrection returned again to corruption, or still kept the honour of immortality, which was bestowed on them; as also when Christ said to the thief on the Cross, this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise, whether Christ meant the presence of his human soul or of his Divine glory should be that day in Paradise, and so whether the souls of the faithful d●…parting this life, go strait to heaven, or stay in a place appointed them of God till the day of judgement: and likewise whether Abraham's bosom were a receptacle for souls within the earth, and near to hell; or far above the earth: and lastly whether the losing of Adam from hell, by Christ's descent thither, which the whole Church almost seemed to hold by tradition, freed only the person of Adam from the place of hell; or both him and his posterity from all fear and danger of hell: These be things that may be liked, disliked, or suspended without any manifest breach of faith, and wherein Saint Austen probablely disputeth, but determineth nothing for certainty to be believed; always tempering his words in these cases with 
c August. ●…pist. 99  Ego quidem non video, explicent qui possunt, nondum intelligo, nulla causa occurrit, nondum mu●…. I see not how, let them declare it that can, as yet I understand it not, I conceive presently no cause, as yet I find it not clear. If I then laboured with respective words, and other places of the same Fathers, to show wherein they doubted, or dissented; who but a light head and slipper tongue would call this contemning or despising of the Fathers? But you will proceed to the special examples wherein I charge you with despising the Fathers; and I will not be long after you.  
First 
d Defenc. pa. 30.  where you say out of certain Fathers, that Christ in his dying gave up his spirit miraculously, no violence of death wresting it from him, as it doth ours, but when he saw his time, he even at an instant laid it down of himself; Contrary to this I alleged the Scripture, HE WAS LIKE US IN ALL THINGS, sin only excepted. To answer this you reply, was he like us in his birth? Can we lie in the grave without corruption as he lay? Or raise ourselves from death as he did? Which poor answer I wonder to see coming from you. As well you might show farther, he was not like us in that he walked on the water, nor in that he fasted forty d●…s, nor in that he knew the secrets of men's hearts, nor in that he turned water into wine, and with a word healed all diseases. These things done by his manhood, yet were they the proper effects of his Godhead: they were no natural but spiritual things.] You may wonder at what you will, and though your proofs and replies be not worth the paper you wast, yet you so powder them with figures and fancies, that you think them very precious. Where I observed out of Augustine, Jerome, and Bernard, that the manner of Christ's death was not like ours, (though his death were the same that ours is, I mean the separation of the soul from the body,) by reason he had perfect sense and strong speech even to the very instant that of his own accord (when he saw his time) he breathed out his soul; whereas both speech, and sense do fail in us before we die, and our souls are taken from us, we can not breathe them out when we will; to impeach this observation you cast out first reproachful words, and then untidy proofs, such as your store could best afford. 
e Treatis. pa. 53.  Here a fine fable is offered us, say you, a Paradox in nature, and contrary to the Scripture which saith, HE WAS LIKE US IN ALL THINGS sin only excepted. This scornful speech and bare pretence of Scripture misapplied to your peevish conceit, is all the answer you vouchsafe to those ancient and reverend Fathers, I mean Saint Austen, and Saint Jerome. To repel this pride of yours, and to make you perceive the misconstering of the Scriptures, I shortly replied; Was Christ like us in his birth? in his grave or in his resurrection? If he were unlike us in these, and yet those words must stand true, then might he also be unlike us in his death, and no proof out of those words could be made to the contrary. At this poor answer you wonder; but you and your adherents lay your wits together, as you have done your heads, you shall never refel this answer, as poor as it is, without confessing the weakness of your own proof. For if you restrain the text (which you brought) to natural human properties, and infirmities, as now you do, then most apparently his birth and his grave must in all things be like to ours, for they are in us natural human properties or infirmities. To be borne of a Virgin, not to rot in grave and to rise from the dead, 
f Defenc. pa. 30.  Those Divine effects (you say) are justly believed to have been in Christ because of the express Scripture that witnesseth the same.] But then the text which you urged, he was like us in all things, must have an other meaning than you made show of. And so it well may, for even in his birth, in his grave, and in his resurrection, he was like to us though not in every circumstance thereof. His body was made of the seed and substance of his mother as ours is, though she a Virgin, and we were begotten by our Fathers. It also lay senseless and dead in the grave as ours doth, though it could not return to dust as ours shall. He rose from the dead to a celestial and immortal life; and so shall we, but not when we will, nor of our own power, as he did: So that he was like us in all things▪ that is in every part of our nature, and in every kind of human infirmities, but not like us in every action, circumstance or consequent of all human properties and infirmities. For so we should deprive him of that fullness of wisdom, grace and power, wherewith his human soul was endued far unlike to ours not only if we respect natural properties, and infirmities in us, which are utterly void of these gifts; but if we compare our measure of knowledge, grace, and strength with the abundance of his spirit. Then might he be like us even in death also which parted his soul from his body, as it doth ours; though he were unlike us in power to die when he would, which we can not, and retained full force of sense and speech to the very moment of giving up his Ghost, which we do not.  
Again the words following in the Text He was like us in all things, SIN EXCEPTED, are a sufficient exemption of Christ from our manner of death, as well as from our kind of birth, and rotting in the grave. For we are borne in sin, which he might not be, & therefore was to be borne of a Virgin to avoid all concupiscence, as well of a Father as in his Mother, without whom he could not be made our flesh. So rot we in the grave by reason of sin dwelling in our bodies; which must be changed into dust, whence we were taken, in reward of our first father's sin, from whose loins we come with like infection of sin. This Christ's body might by no possibility admit, though you in the margin of your book make a false note to the contrary. First, for that no part of his person might utterly be dissolved or corrupted after it was once united to his Godhead, but must remain for ever inseparable from his Divine nature, and so incorruptible: because God was united not to dust or ashes, but to human flesh which so must still continue. Secondly, for that all Christ's sufferings for sin must have in them exact and perfect obedience, and so precisely sense and will in every passion, to submit himself to the hand of God: which in death he might do and did; but in rotting i●… the grave where sense and will wanted he could not do. Lastly, the Apostle extendeth Christ's obedience in suffering, no farther then to the death of the Cross; after which could follow no fatder humiliation, and so no corruption to dust; but a sure confirmation of his death by lying three days in the grave, and a plain pledge of his resurrection, because he could not see corruption. The same words exempt Christ from our manner of death. For where death entered not but by sin, and the soul of each man to this day, by a natural instinct showeth her secret abhorring of death and open struggling with death before she depart her body, from which she doth not yield but by force of death taking from her first speech and sense, and so by degrees the whole possession of her body; violently thrusting her out of her seat; Neither this violence of death, nor this resistance of the soul may be admitted, or were perceived in the person of Christ. He might suffer nothing but willingly; because the misliking of the hart is disobedience though the fact be endured. Wherefore if we mean with the Apostle to confess Christ to have been obedient to his death, we must leave in him both sense and will to obey even to the last gasp, and also power to breath out his soul into his Father's hand, when the time was come appointed by God for him to depart this life. Again, what force created could wrest his soul from him being God, and man, but at his liking? His own words are, none taketh my soul from me, but I lay it down of myself. Whereon chrysostom rightly groundeth this consequent. 
g Chrysost. de feria 5. passioni●… sermo 6.  Si nemo, utique nec mors. If none then surely neither death.  
But you would see 
h Defenc. pa. 30.  express words in the Text that Christ died, as I say, not naturally, but miraculously, and then you will believe it.] Would you have so plain words in the text, that you can not, or that you should not quarrel with? If you delude, as your manner is, the plain words of the Scripture with kinds of speeches and large senses, I see no words that can hold you, but you may defend after your fashion any kind of fancy or heresy, with Synecdoches, Allegories, and Hyperboles. And though the judgement of so great and godly fathers joining with the very words of the Scripture, carry with it sufficient weight to a sober and religious Reader; yet for your pleasure, that you may see your folly, I am content to cast about again. What is ponere animam in the Scripture, Sir, I pray? is it willingly or unwillingly to lay down a man's soul or life? You know Peter's words to his Master, 
i john. 13.  Animam meam pro te ponam. I will lay down my life for thy sake. And S. john's, 
k 1. john 3.  Nos debemus profratribus animas ponere. We ought to lay down our lives for our brethren. And Christ's, 
l john. 10.  Propter hoc Pater me diligit, quoniam ego pono animam meam, ut iterum sumam eam. Therefore the Father loveth me, because I lay down my soul to take it again. In all these places ponere animam must needs be to lay down life or soul willingly; except you be so wise as to think that Peter in love telleth his Master he was unwilling to die for him; and S. john forwarneth us, we must not be willing to die for our brethren; yea, and that the Father loved the Son because he was unwilling to die for his sheep, which were Divinity fit for such a Doctor as you are. Then tollere animam is for another to take our (life or) soul fromus, whether we be willing or unwilling it should be done, as appeareth by Eliahs' prayer unto God, in saying 
m 1. King. 19  take away my soul, when he desired to die. Resort now to the words of our Saviour, where he said, 
n john. 10.  None taketh (my soul) from me, but I lay it down of myself, and see whether they infer a peculiar manner of dying, not common to others. Had he meant to say no more, but I die willingly, as you imagine he intended; pono animam, I lay down my soul, had been words enough to express that meaning: but he maketh an addition, which must needs have some force; and not be an idle repetition of the same thing; and likewise an opposition, the contrary whereof must be found in his death. For where other men's souls are taken from them, though they be never so willing to die, as appear by the witness of Scripture, I lay it down OF MYSELF, saith our Saviour; that is, not only of mine own accord, but by mine own power. To show that so he doth, he saith, None taketh (my soul) from me, (which they do from others) I lay it down of myself. And lest any man should doubt as you do, whether ●…e spoke of his willingness to die, which is common to others; or of his power, which was proper to himself; in full, express, and direct words, to stop such cavilling mouths as yours is, he addeth as a proof of his speech, 
o john. 10.  I have power to lay it down (he meaneth of himself, as the former words convince) and have power to take it again: this commandment have I received of my Father. That he was willing to lay down his soul I do not deny, the word pono (I lay it down) proveth so much; but he professeth that he had received power and commandment from his Father to lay it down of himself, and to take it again of himself. This commandment was peculiar to his person; no man living ever had or shall have the like; & this power to lay down his soul of himself was as MIRACULOUS, as his power to raise himself from the dead, since they are both compared and joined together. These things did those ancient and learned Fathers see, when they made their collections: and so plain and perspicuous are they even in the Text itself, that none of mean capacity or any modesty can mistake, or will outface them.  
As for 
p Defenc. pa. 31.  Chrysostom whom you cite hereupon, he hath nothing for this point.] He that hath once hardened his hart and mouth against the truth, will never stay nor stick at any thing. When you would needs out of those words, He was like us in all things infer, therefore Christ must be like us in the manner of his death; I let you see that Chrysostom avoucheth the contrary. The death of Christ, and his rising from the dead, 
q Chrysost. in johan. ●…omil. 59  both these (saith Chrysostom) were strong, and besides the common (that is, the natural) course of men. And expounding Christ's words I have power to lay down my soul, that is. (saith Chrysostom) 
r Ibidem.  I alone have this power, which you have not. In this power which he had and we have not, I trust he was unlike us; and so Chrysostom directly refelleth your unskilful application of the Scripture that Christ was like us in all things, even in the manner of his death. But 
s Defenc. pa. 31.  If it were new and not ordinary that Christ should have power to lay down his life, yet why may not his manhood die naturally notwithstanding?] Forsooth because he used that power at the time of his death, as he himself witnesseth, which no man ever did, or can do. As he had power which was above nature to lay down his life when he himself would; so his own mouth testifieth that none took his soul from him, but he laid it down of himself, that is, of his own accord and power, when he saw his time. And so Chrysostom telleth you; 
t C●…st in I●…han. ●…omil. 59  Ita mori vires humanas excedit; So to die (as Christ did) passeth the power (or nature) of man and, solus erat vitam ponendi dominus, Christ alone was the (Ruler or) master of laying down his life. Howbeit in your mocking vain you go on, and say, that I will conclude this better. You must remember what God himself saith; O fool this night they shall fetch away thy soul from thee. Whereto you add. I remember it well, what then? ergo, Christ saying none taketh my life from me, meant he would die miraculously, and not by the failing of nature in him? If this be the reason, verily I grant it is marvelous subtle and past my reach. If you overreach no more than this reason doth, you will come short of all your new conceits. If your memory be not too much moistened, you may call to mind that this place was brought to prove, Christ was unlike us in the laying down of this soul; and if I be not as gross as you are gamesome, it proveth it very directly. God by those words expresseth the rich man should that night die, and thereby teacheth us that when we die, our souls are taken from us. So that it is not in our power to keep our souls in our bodies as long as we will, nor to leave them when we list: but when God sendeth, will we, nill we, they are taken from us. This Christ denieth to be verified in him; none took his soul from him, but he laid is down of himself, which we cannot do. Hence if it please you to frame but this reason which is in open sight: All men's souls are taken from them when they die: Christ's soul was not taken from him when he died: ergo, Christ died not in the same manner that we do; and so was unlike us in his death, by the manifest words of the Scripture; you shall see a plain truth, not past your reach, though repugnant to your purpose.  
But I should prove Christ died 
u Defene. pa. 31.  miraculously not naturally. That at last after long and sore anguish of mind, & bodily torments his natural strength failed him, & therefore he bowed his head and gave up the ghost; what miracle is there in this?] Men may well marvel at your folly, who turn & wind every way rather than you will acknowledge that which the Scriptures expressly witness was in Christ above man's nature, which they that saw it marveled at, & which the best Divines of all ages have confessed to be miraculous in the death of Christ: To have perfect sense, speech, and mo●…on at the very instant of giving up the ghost is a thing not possible to our nature. Our speech and sense & lunta●… motion do first evidently fail before our souls depart from our bodies: But Christ had all three by the full report of the Evangelists, even to the very act of breathing out of his soul. Saint john writeth that 
x john. 19  jesus knowing all things were fulfilled said, I thirst: and when he had tasted the vinegar he said, it is finished: and inclining his head gave up the ghost. He noteth in Christ exact memory of all things written in the Scripture touching him, Plain speech, and voluntary motion in laying down his head at the very moment that he yielded up the ghost. S. Luke witnesseth that 
y Luke 23.  crying with a loud voice (Christ said.) Father into thine hands I will commend (or lay down) my Spirit. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. And speaking these words he breathed out his soul. The loudness of his voice, and effect of his prayer professing he would now die, and at the same instant performing it by giving up his spirit, conclude that neither sense, memory, speech, nor prayer failed him to the last breath, as they do us when we draw towards death; and therefore the manner of his death to be far distant from ours.  

z Defene. pa. 31. li. 37.  Anon after (you say) he might die, and in the mean while both sense and speech fail him before he died.] Your liberty to judge of the sense of the Scripture doth lead you, and hold you to this error. You imagine what please you of the words of the Evangelists, and averting them from their true coherence by interposing your fancies, you maintain it as your right to judge of the meaning of the holy Ghost. But consult your conscience, that you ●…st not with the truth; and compare the Evangelists words and purpose together, and you shall soon see the course, and force of them. To what end do the Evangelists so carefully note in Christ these circumstances, not usual with us, no●… possible for us at the departure of our souls, but only to show the truth of his own words, that none took his soul from him, but he laid it down of himself, which he had power to do and accordingly did? and therefore they describe him remembering all things, calling even for drink because he was exceeding dry through pain, warning the people standing about him, with a loud prayer, that he would (now) lay down his soul into his Father's hands. And so bowing his head of his own accord he forthwith breathed out his soul. Anon after, say you, but nature first decaying in him; Presently say I, when there was in him no decay of nature, nor any want of memory, sense, or speech. In vain else were all those things, both performed by our Saviour, and testified by the Evangelists, if this were not the scope thereof, that Christ with actual and perfect obedience, devotion, and submission to the will of God, and therefore also with full and perfect memory, sense, and speech, did above the strength and use of men, willingly and powerfully with one breath render his soul into the hands of his Father; who had decreed he should die, but gave him leave and power to lay down his soul of his own accord when he would, without constraint or stroke of death wresting or taking his soul from him. And that the manner of Christ's death was miraculous even in his own Person, and drove the standers by to confess he was more than a man, that so could die; if you could but open your partial ears, you should hear the Evangelists cofirme, though you very coursely entreat S. jerom as bending himself therein against the plain text, where indeed he rightly pursueth the words of the holy Ghost, and you would saucily control one text by an other, and not seek to reconcile them together. Saint Marks words are these. And 
a Mark 15.  jesus crying with a loud voice, gave up the ghost, and the Centurion that stood overright him, seeing, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that crying in such sort he breathed out his soul, said; Surely this man was the Son of God. This crying so loud which Saint Mark speaketh of, was that prayer whereby Christ commended his soul into his Father's hands, as S. Luke testifieth; for those were the last words he spoke at the time when he gave up the ghost. The breathing out of his soul so presently upon so strong a voice, and ●…o loud a prayer was so strange, that it forthwith moved the Centurion, who stood overright him, and well observed him, to pronounce that he was the Son of God. What now hath jerom offended, I pray you, in noting that which S. Mark writeth, that the 
b Hieronymus ad Hedibia●… quaesti●…. 8.  Centurion hearing Christ say to his Father, Into thy hands I commend my spirit, ET STATIM SPONTE, and forthwith of his own accord to have given up the ghost, moved with the greatness of this wonder, said, truly this man was the Son of God?  
I 
c Defenc. pa. 32.  urge jerom, you say, against the plain text in an other place: which saith; When the Centurion s●…w the Earthquake & the things which were done, he said, truly this man was the Son of God.] If Ierom should have falsified one text, as you have done, to outface an other, he were worthy to be blamed; but your liberty to judge of the Scriptures at your pleasure must excuse you. What hath jerom said in those words; which Saint Mark, and S. Luke in effect did not before him? That the loud voice which Christ used presently before his yielding up the ghost, was that prayer which jerom mentioneth, S. Luke witnesseth. And speaking those words (saith S. Luke) Christ gave up the ghost. That was a very strange, and marvelous thing to the Centurion to hear him so speak, and see him so die. Saint Mark observeth; The Centurion seeing, that crying in such sort, Christ gave up the ghost, said, Surely this man was the Son of God. Could it move the Centurion (that had the charge to see Christ executed) to this confession, and not seem strange unto him? Pilate that gave sentence of death upon him, marveled he was so soon dead; and do you think it much S. jerom should say it was a wonder? But in S. Matthew it is 
d Defenc. pa. 32.  expressly noted that the Earthquake chi●…ly did move the Centurion so to think, and speak.] Saint Mark saith, The Centurion that stood overright Christ, and beheld him; when he saw in what sort he cried, and died, said, Truly this was the Son of God. After his death, the Earthquake and other things that followed the death of Christ, caused the Centurion and his Soldiers, as they were keeping jesus now dead, greatly to fear, and with one voice now to confess that surely he was the Son of God. Both which reports stand true together; the one not overthrowing the other. For the Centurio alone at the hearing of Christ's voice, and sight of his death did first affirm it: Afterward when Christ was dead, as the Centurion and his soldiers kept his body on the Cross, till pilate's pleasure were known, the wonders which followed Christ's death, as the shaking of the earth, the cleaving of the rocks, and opening of the graves, made the Centurion and those that were with him watching jesus greatly to fear, and (with one mind) to say, Truly this was the Son of God. So that your words 
e Pag. 32. li. 45.  HE SAID, meaning thereby the Centurion, are not in S. Matthew, but the Centurion and those that were with him SEEING (the wonders that followed Christ's death) greatly feared, saying, Truly this man was the Son of God. And had the Centurion seen nothing wonderful in Christ's person before he died; how should he and the rest have gathered certainly, that these things declared Christ and none other, to be the Son of God? But Christ suffering all things with silence and patience till the instant of his death, he then showed himself to die with a strange and divine power above man's nature, which the Centurion first marked, and therefore confes●…ed him to be the Son of God; & when the rest of the wonders that followed the death of Christ, were perceived; they confirmed him and all his soldiers in the same opinion: yea 
* Luk 23.  all the people that came to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts and returned. Where S. Luke also putteth a manifest difference betwixt the Centurion and the rest of the people. Of the Centurion he saith, 
‖ Vers. 47.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seeing what was done, in that Christ praying gave up the ghost, he glorified God and said, truly this man was just. Of the rest Saint Luke saith, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Beholding the sundry things that were done (after Christ's death) 
Vers. 48.  they struck their breasts and returned.  
This miraculous and divine power, which appeared in the person of our Saviour breathing out his soul at an instant, when he would and as he would, besides and beyond the nature of man, at which the Centurion so much wondered; the best Divines of all ages have likewise observed, and acknowledged. So that you have small cause to conceive, you can take Bernard tardy in a tale in such sort as you do; as if his age were too young, or his wits too weak to encounter your worth. He saith indeed: to die was a great infirmity, but so to die, (as Christ did) was a great (or an infinite) power. Where showing yourself to be sharp sighted in toys, and heavy headed in truth, you ask, which is this infinite power? Christ's tasting the vinegar, or his saying it is finished, or his bowing the head, or his giving up the ghost? Had you not tasted so much the vinegar of your own conceits, that you can scant lift up your head to look on any thing but lees, you might easily have seen what Bernard saith, and that he saith no more than the best learned Fathers in Christ's Church said before him. 
f Bernard seria 4. ●…ebdo. paenos●….  Solus potestatem habuit ponendi animam suam, nemo ●…am abstulit ab eo & inc●…to capite (factus obediens usque admortem) tradidit spiritum. Quis tam facile quando vult dormit? magna quidem infirmit as mori, sed planè sic mori virtus immensa. Solus potestatem habuit ponendi, qui solus facultatem aeqne habuit liberam resumendi; imperium habens vitae & mort is. Christ alone had power to lay down his soul, none took it from him. Bowing his head, (being obedient unto death) he gave up the ghost. Who can so easily sleep, when he will? To dic was a great infirmity, but so to die was plainly an exceeding power. H●…e only had power to lay down his soul, who only had like free power to take it again; having the rule of life and death.  
Long before Bernard S. Austen said as much, whose words you say, being 
g Defenc. pag. 33. l. 1.  granted, necessarily conclude nothing for my purpose. They show nothing but Christ's voluntary dying, and that at his death he sh●…ed great power, which you deny not.] Were it infirmity in you that you could not understand S. Austin's words, it were the less to be misliked; but being an insolent conc●… of yourself, that will quarrel with Scriptures and Fathers, lest you should be convinced of a manifest error, this hath neither truth nor touch of any Religion. That Christ died VOLUNTARY, and showed GREAT POWER AT HIS DEATH, S. Austen you grant avoucheth; and you because you can wind those words at your will, do●… not deny them: but were you as careful to take Saint Austin's words in their right sense, as you be ready for a show to admit them, this matter were ended. S. Austen speaketh indeed of Christ's voluntary, and powerful dying, but he doth not mean, as you do, that Christ was only willing to die, as religious and godly men are, which desire to depart this life; but that he died 
h S●…rmo. pa. 3.  quia voluit, quando voluit, quomodo voluit; because he would, when he would, as he would. And giving the reason of his speech out of the Scripture, (though you proudly and falsely say he hath no strength of reason by the Scripture) he learnedly and truly pursueth it in this sort. 
i Austen. de Tri●…tated. l. 4. cap. 13.  Where the spirit is far better than the body, and it is the death of the spirit to be forsaken of God; as it is the death of the body to be forsaken of the spirit: and this is the punishment in the death of the body, that the spirit because it willingly forsook God, shall unwillingly leave the body; neither can the spirit leave the body when it will, unless it offer some violent death to the body; the (Soul or) Spirit of (Christ) the mediator did plainly prove that he came to the death of his flesh by no punishment of sin, in that he forsook not his flesh by any means against his will, but because HE WOULD, WHEN H●… WOULD, AND AS HE WOULD. Therefore he said, I have power to lay down my soul, and have power to take it again. None taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. And this those that were present GREATLY marveled AT, as the Gospel observeth, when after that (loud) voice he presently gave up the ghost. For they that were fastened to the tree were tormented with a long death. Wherefore the (two) thieves had their legs broken, that they might die. But Christ was WONDERED AT, because he was found dead; which thing we read Pilate marveled at, when Christ's body was asked of him to be buried. There is more sound Divinity in this one Chapter of S. Austin's then in both your Pamphlets; though you pretend S. Austin's words conclude nothing, nor against you, nor for me. Where you may learn, (for it is fitter for you to be a scholar then a writer, till you have learned to leave your wilful humours, and to give ●…are unto the sage and wise Fathers that were pillars of Christ's Church many hundred years before you;) first that for the punishment of sin, the death of the body was inflicted on all mankind, in which the soul should depart from her body against her will, and not when she would, nor as she would. Secondly that the manner of Christ's death was clean contrary to ours; he gave up his spirit of his own accord, and power, when he would and as he would. Thirdly his giving up the ghost so presently upon his loud prayer, was wondered at by the standers by, and by Pilate himself when he heard of it. Whether this conclude my purpose I leave to the judgement of the discreet Reader: your no, as it lightly cometh without cause, so with me it goeth as lightly without regard.  
But Austin's words, which I first 
k Se●…mons pagina. 8.  quoted, prove not so much.] You take upon you to refute first and last; why skip you then that which is cited in the midst? Grant Austin's words to be true, as indeed they are most true, which are alleged in the first place, and my purpose is fully concluded. The●… prove that no man can 
l August. in johan. tractat. 119.  SO SLEEP when he will, as Christ died when he would; that no man can so put off his vesture when he will, as Christ put off his flesh, when he would; that no man can so leave the place where he standeth, at his will, as Christ left his life when he would. And if so great power appeared in him dying, with what power shall we think he will come to judge? Where voluntary dying in Christ doth not only import that he was content and willing to die; as Paul was when he desired to be dissolved, but that he left this life by separating his soul from his body when he would; having at that present when he parted his soul from his body; perfect memori●…, sense, and speech, and breathing out his soul of his own accord, with more facility and celerity than we can lay off our garments, or change the place in which we stand. And from this admirable power, by which he laid down his soul, and took it again at his pl●…asure, Austen draweth a comparison to the exceeding greatne●… of that power with which he shall come to judge the world.  
With Austen join all the Fathers of Christ's Church that eaer spoke of this matter, and the best Divines of latter ages confess the same. Athanasius. 
m Athana. cont. Ar●…. orat. 4.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. To have power to lay down his soul when he would, and to take it again; this is not the property of men, but it is the power of the Son of God. For man dieth not by his own power, but by necessiti●… of nature and that against his will: but Christ being God ●…ad it in his own power to separate himself from his body, and to resume the same again, when he would. Origen. 
n Origenes in johan. evang. 〈◊〉 19  An non Dominus singulare quiddam prae omnibus, qui in corpus advenerint, de seipso dicit? doth not the Lord affirm a thing that was (peculiar or) singular to him above all that ever were in the flesh; when he saith, None taketh my soul from me, but I lay it down of myself, and have power to lay it down and power to take it again? Let us consider what he meaneth, who left his body, and departed from it without any way leading to death. This neither Moses, nor any of the patriarchs, Prophets, or Apostles did say besides jesus. For if Christ had died as the thieves did that were crucified with him; we could not have said, that he laid down his soul of himself, but after the manner of such as die. But now jesus crying with a strong voice, gave up the ghost, and as a King left his body. His power greatly appeared in this, that at his own free power and will leaving his body he died. Gregory Nyssene. 
o Gregor. N●…ssenus de resurrectione Christi Oratio 1.  Memento Dominici dicti, quid de seipso pronunciet is, a quo pendet rerum omnium vis & potentia; quomodo ex plena summáque potestate, ac non ex naturae necessitate animam à corpore seiungit. Remember the Lords words, what he pronounceth of himself, of whom dependeth all power; how with full and sovereign power, and not by necessity of nature he severed his soul from his body; as he said, None taketh my soul from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it again. Gregory Nazianzen maketh the mother of Christ thus to speak unto him after his death. 
p Nazianzen. in Christo patient.  Coming I heard thy voice unto thy father, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and thou suddenly departedst (this life) as leaving it willingly. Jerome: 
q Hierom. 15. cap. Marci.  With a faint voice, or rather speechless we die, that are of the earth; but he which came from heaven breathed out his soul with a loud voice. 
r Idem ad Hedibiam qu●…. 8.  We must say it was a show of his divine power to lay down his soul when he would, and to take it again. Yea, the Centurio hearing him say to hi●… Father, Into thine hands I commend my spirit, & statim sponte spiritum dimisisse, and straightway of his own accord to send forth his spirit, moved with the GREATNESS of this WONDER said, Truly this was the Son of God. chrysostom upon these words of Matthew, jesus crying with a loud voice gave up the ghost, saith, 
s Chrysostom in Matth. cap. 27. hom. 89.  Idcirco magna voce clamavit, ut ostendat haec sua potestate fieri. Therefore Christ cried with a loud voice, that he might show this to be done by his own power. Mark saith, Pilate maru●…lled if he were already dead. And the Centurion also THER●…FORE CHIEFLY believed, because he saw Christ die of his own accord and power. Victor of Antioch upon the like words of Mark, saith, 
t Victor Antio●… in cap. 5. Marci.  By so doing the Lord jesus doth plainly declare, that he had his whole life and death in his own free power. Wherefore Mark writeth, that Pilate not without admiration asked if Christ were yet dead; addidit item ea potissimum de causa Centurionem credidisse; he added likewise that the Centurion chiefly for that reason believed, because he saw Christ give up the ghost with a loud cry, and signification of great power. Leo noting that Christ died not for lack of help, but of determinat●… purpose saith, 
u Leo Serm. 17. de Passione Domini.  Quae illic vitae intercessio sentienda est, ubi anima & potestate est emissa & potestate revocata? What entreaty for life shall we think there was, where the soul was both sent out with power, and recalled with power. Fulgentius: 
x Fulgentius ad Trasimundum lib. 3.  Cum ergo homo Christus tantam accep●…rit potestatem, ut cum vellet animam poneret, & cum vellet denuò resumeret, quantam potuit habere Christi divinitas potestatem? Ideo autem ille homo potestatem animae habuit, quia cum divina potestas in unitatem personae suscepit. Where then the man Christ received so much power; that he might lay down his soul when he would, and take it again when he would, how great power might the Godhead of Christ have? and therefore the manhood of Christ had power to lay down his soul, because the divine power admitted him into the vinitie of person. 
* Sedul. operis Paschalis lib. 5. cap. 17.  Sedulius: Animam protinus suam sancto de corpore volens ipse depos●…it. Christ himself forthwith (upon his prayer) willingly laid off his sacred soul from his body. Nonnius in his Paraphrase upon S. john's Gospel, expresseth the saying of Christ, None taketh my soul from me; in these words, 
* Nonnius' Paraphras. in Joan. ca 10. ver. 18.  No birth-law taketh my soul from me, no encroaching time that tameth all things; nor Necessity which is unchangeable counsel; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; but ruler of myself, I of mine own accord yield up my willing soul. Beda upon that place of Matthew, And jesus crying with a loud voice, sent out (or gave up) his spirit; writeth thus: 
y Bed●… in Matt. cap. 27.  Quod autem dicit, emisit spiritum, ostendit divinae potestatis esse emittere spiritum, ut ipse quoque dixerat, nemo potest tollere animam; in that the Evangelist saith, Christ sent out his (soul or) spirit, he showeth it is a point of Divine power to send out the soul, as Christ himself said, None can take my soul from me. 
z Ibid. in Marci cap. 15.  Nullus enim habet potestatem emittendi spiritum nisi qui animarum conditor est. For none hath power to send out the soul, but he that is Creator of souls. Which Bede buildeth upon the words of S. Matthew, who saith that Christ crying with a loud voice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, dismissed or sent his soul from him. Theophylact: 
a Theophylact. in Matth. cap. 27.  jesus crieth with a loud voice, that we should know it was true which he said, I have power to lay down my soul: for not constrained but of his own accord he dismissed his soul. And 
b Idem Marci cap. 15.  the Centurion seeing that he breathed out his soul so like a Commander of death, WONDERED, and confessed him: 
c Idem Marci cap. 23.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for he died not like other men, but as the Master of death. Lyra upon these words of Matthew, 
d Lyra in Mat●… cap. 27.  jesus again crying with a loud voice, sent forth his soul. Whereby it appeareth that voice was not natural, but MIRACULOUS, because a man afflicted with great and long torment, and through such affliction near to death could not so cry by any strength of nature.  
The latter writers concur with the older in this observation. Erasmus in his Paraphrase upon Saint Luke. 
e Erasmus pa●…. in Lu. ca 23.  jesus when with a mighty cry he had said, Father into thy hands I commend my spirit, breathed out his soul: to make it manifest to all, that he did not faint as others do, the strength of the body by little and little decaying, but straightway upon a strong cry, and words distinctly pronounced, laid down his life as of his own accord. And the 
f Idem in Marci. cap. 15.  Centurion who stood overright as a Minister and witness of his death, and had seen many die with punishment, when he saw jesus besides the manner of other men, after a strong cry presently to breath out his soul said; truly this man was the Son of God. Musculus, 
g Musculus in Matth. cap. 27.  That Christ sent forth hi●… soul with aloud voice is a proof of greater power, then may be found in a man dying. Whereby he showed that he laid of his soul of his own accord; answerable to that, I have power to lay down my soul and to take it again. To which end john saith, that bowing his head he gave up the Ghost. Others first die, and then their heads fall; but he first layeth down his head, and then of his own accord delivereth his soul up to his Father. Gualther 
h Gualther in joh. hom. 169.  But let us see the manner of Christ's death, who as john writeth with bowing down his head yielded his Spirit. Luke saith, he cried with a loud voice, Father into thy hands I commend my Spirit. Concurrunt h●…c non obscura Divinitatis argumenta; Here find we manifest arguments of his Divinity, which the Centurion and others observed as some of the Evangelists witness. First this cry and distinct pronouncing of his last words showeth a power and virtue MORE THAN HUMAN. For we know that men dying so faint, that the most of them cannot speak be it never so softly. Again, he dieth when he will himself, yea and layeth of his soul with authority, to show himself Lord of life and death, which is an evident proof of his Divine power. It is profitable for us diligently to mark the Divine power of Christ, which showed itself so plainly in his death. Marlorat upon the words of Matthew, and jesus crying again with a loud voice sent forth his spirit, saith; 
i Marlor. in Matth. ca 27.  Declarat hic Christus maiestatem suam, Christ declareth here his Majesty, that he layeth down his soul, not when men constrain him, but when he himself will. Whereupon Pilate marveled that Christ was so soon dead. And the Lord himself said, None taketh my soul from me but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it again. To which it pertaineth that is written, he bowing down his head gave up his spirit; for other men first die, and then their heads hang; but Christ first laid down his head, and then voluntarily rendered his soul to his Father. Many more might be brought of all ages and places confessing the same; but if these suffice not, what may be enough I do not know.  
To decline the Scriptures and Fathers that make against him, the Discourser hath devised two shifts very like the rest of of his tenants, that is void of all truth and judgement. 
k Defenc. pa. 32.  I deny not, saith he, but Christ might show some strange unusual thing apparently to the beholders in uttering his last voice, which might very much move the beholders and 
The Defender deviseth shifts to decline Scriptures and Fathers against ●…im.  h●…arers. Add hereunto that experience showeth, (as Physicians say,) how some diseases in the body bring death presently after most strong and violent crying: Namely in some excessive torments, as of the stone.] Things reported and expressed in the Scriptures touching the strange and wonderful manner of Christ's death you deny; and dream of things there no way mentioned, to colour your matter and cousin your Reader. That Christ did render his soul into his Father's hands, when as yet neither speech, sense, memory, nor motion began to fail, is diligently observed by the Evangelists, and was greatly marveled at by the Centurion, which saw the manner of his death: As also that he breathed out his soul of his own accord when he had spoken those words without any former or other degrees or pangs of death appearing in him, is likewise witnessed by the Scriptures, and constantly avouched by all the Fathers. Saint Luke saith, and speaking these words he breat head out his soul: Saint Matthew, and crying with a loud voice he dismissed his spirit: Saint Mark, and sending a strong voice from him he blew out his Soul. This did he of his own accord and power, None taking his soul from him, as in death they do ours; but declaring himself by laying of his soul when he would, and as he would, to be Lord and master of life and death. This is fit for all Christians to confess, lest they dishonour the death of Christ by depriving his person of that power and glory, which he openly showed in the eyes & ears of all his persecutors. This you shift of, and instced thereof imagine some strange and VNUSVALI accident in the manner of Christ's death, which neither the Scriptures report, nor you can express: wherein you show yourself forward to invent what is not written, and backward to believe what is written, which is the trade of such men as mean to make a shipwreck of their faith.  
That a man may die crying, as Christ did, you have found at length if not from Divines, at least from Physicians; for I perccave you have sought all sorts of helps both far and near to uphold your fancies.] P●…rchaunce Physicians may tell you, when a painful disease possesseth the parts which are no fountains of life or sense, a man may cry, till sense and strength begin to fail, and so hasten his death by the violent spending of his spirits; but that a man may by any course of nature retain perfect memory, sense, motion, and speech to the very act of breathing out his soul, I assure myself no wise Physician will affirm. And if any more humorous than learned will wade so far without his Art, he must understand that his word may not oversway the Rules of Divinity and Principles of nature. For what are the powers and faculties whereby the soul is conjoined with the body, but life, sense, and motion? so long then as they last, the soul by nature neither doth, nor can forsake the body. But when sense and motion first outward and then inward are oppressed and overwhelmed, than life also perisheth and the soul may no longer abide in her body; the union by which she was fastened unto it, being wholly dissolved Wherefore death which is the privation of life, by God's ordinance for the punishment of sin by degrees surpriseth and in the end quencheth all sense and motion, and so forceth the soul to forsake her seat; which by God's appointment is violently parted from her body whether she will or no: but never till the effects oflife, which are sense and motion, be first decayed and abolished. A sown is the suddainest overwhelming of the powers of life, which any natural experience doth teach us; and yet therewith though outward sense and motion do fail at an instant, and the inward be very weak and almost insensible, the soul doth not presently depart, but stayeth a time till all sense and motion without and within, (except the party be recovered) be utterly extinguished. Wherefore in all men by necessity of nature the powers and parts of life decav in some sooner in some later before they die; and therefore in Christ on the Cross it was MIRACULOUS and above nature, that having full & perfect outward and inward sense speech and motion, he did in a moment, when he would, and as he would, render his soul into the hands of his Father without any farther decays, or other degrees of death precedent than the very act of breathing out his soul, which left his body presently and perfectly dead.  
Thou hast gentle Reader the causes and prooses that moved me to observe the man●…r of Christ's death to be different from ours; which whether they be consonant to the Scriptures, and rightly conceived by those learned and ancient Fathers, which I have named unto thee, I leave to thy discrecte judgement; assuring thee there is nothing to hinder the main consent of so many old and new writers in a matter of so great consequence, but only the headdinesse of this discourser; who upon a bare pretence of one piece of Scripture not well understood and worse applied, thinketh he may work wonders; and conclude all these grave and sound Expositors to be so ignorant of the sense of that place, and so unable to reach to the depth of those words, Christ was LIKE US IN ALL things; that with one accord they would affirm 
l Trea. pag. 53.  a sine fable, a Paradox in Nature, and contrary to Scripture. Howbeit it is no news with this man to defend that Christ was 
m Ibidem.  distempered, overwhelmed, and all confounded both in all the powers of his soul and senses of his body. He boldly avoucheth it was so with Christ before his death in the Garden and on the Cross, and therefore he presumeth it might much more befall him at his death. But let him keep these secrets to himself. I doubt not Christian Reader but thou wilt be well advised before thou put the Saviour of the world and the Son of God out of his wits or senses, to make way for such witless and senseless fancies.  
He 
n Defenc. pa. 33.  proceedeth to show my disdain to the Fathers for insolent rejecting all their opinions touching the causes of Christ's Agony in the Garden, and of his complaint on the Crosse. For answer, first I desire to know whether you allow of all these causes, or no; you seem to refuse them here: for herein you showed not your own opinion, but the judgement of the Fathers. Elsewhere yourself are resolute for some of those causes, and against other some. And yet before; all these interpretations you say are sound, & stand well with the rules of Christian piety; thus variable you are in that wherein you seem most resolute.] When you know what it is to be constant, you shall do well to talk of inconstancy; till that time your own doctrine will most disgrace your own doings. You catch oft at contrarieties in my writings; make good but one, and then prate at your pleasure. Otherwise men will think it to be the weakness of your wit, or stiffness of your stomach, that can not or will not rightly conceive that which is truly spoken.  
Touching the cause of Christ's Agony in the Garden; since the Scriptures do not 
I did not resolve what was the cause of Christ's agony.  express it, I said it was curiosity to search it, presumption to determine it, impossible certainly to conclude it: yet for that you made this your chief advantage, that there could be conjectured none other cause of Christ's exceeding sorrow in the Garden, besides the present suffering of H●…ll pains in his soul; I gave the Reader to understand how many there might be besides your de●…ce, which of all others was lest tolerable or probable. Now you would know whether I ALLOW of ALL these causes, or no. I have answered you that already, if you had but ears to hear it. I did not acknowledge any of these to be precisely or particula●…ly mentioned in the Scriptures as the right cause of that Agony, but if you would needs go to conjecturing, I said, there might be conceived so many, and every one of them more likely, and godly, than your supposing of Hell pains at that instant in Christ's soul. I persist still in the same mind, what change find you in me? Else where I am 
o Defenc. pa. 33. li. 12.  resolute (you say) for some of these causes, and against other some. And yet before I said, all th●…se interpretations are sound and stand well with the rules of Christian pictie.] It is more than a penance to be troubled with a trifler, that hath neither eyes to see, nor head to apprehend what is said. When I came to consider of the general respects in Christ, whence that Agony might arise; as the persons were two, God with whom, and Man for whom Christ dealt in that work of our redemption; so I resolved the cause of Christ's Agony could not proceed, but either from his submission to God, to whose will and hand he must subject himself, if he would ransom man; or from comp●…ssion of man's misery, for whom he was willing to lay down his life. A thi●…d ground of Christ's fear I grant I see none. For that Devils should torment Christ's soul, I leave that invention to your devotion. But do I determine any particular cause contrary to my first profession, when I stand resolute, that from one or both of these fountains the cause of Christ's fear and sorrow must be derived? If I do not, then piper-like do you play with ●…y variableness, when you do not so much as attend that I am resolute in the general duties of piety and charity, which I ascribe to our Saviour; though I be not resolute in any particular cause of his fear at that present, as I at first professed I neither could, nor would be, by reason the Scriptures do not expressly mention any. Again, what dullness is this to say I am resolute against s●…me of these causes, for that I make two principal heads, whereon the rest depend? Can not your wisdom see, that Christ's SUBMISSION to the Majesty of God sitting in judgement, and his DEPRICATION of God's wrath proceed from his religious and humble subjection to the will and hand of God? As also that his sorrow for the REJECTION of the jews, and DISPERSION of his Church, and his LAMENTATION of man's sin grow from his compassion on man's misery? And lastly that the VOLUNTARIF DEDICATION of his blood to be shed for the sins of the world, and the SANCTIFICATION OF HIS PERSON to offer the true and eternal sacrifice, partake with both the former respects? Is it a contradiction with you to see many branches on one stem, many Springs in one well, many members in one body? And so childish you are, that you take●…-meale for eggs, and interpretations for ●…ses, and then you crack of my contrarieties, how much I over shot myself: For where I bring divers Expositions of Christ's words on the Cross, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me; and say in the end, 
p Serm. pag. 37. li. 33.  All these interpretations are so●…d an●… stand with the rules of Christian piety: you in a dream or drowsiness (choose which you will) imagine I say, ALL THESE CAUSES of Christ's Agony are sound, an●… stand well with the rules of Christian piety; and so contradict my former resolution, as if only two were sound, and not the rest; where in truth I neither auo●…ch the one, nor the other: such conflicts you make with your own follies, and get the conquest not on my Assertions, but on your own most foolish oversights.  
Yet these 
q Defenc. pa. 34. li. 3. & 6.  agree not with any circumstance of the Passion, and on●… of them crosseth and overthroweth an other.] Take first the pains to prove somewhat, and then challenge your privilege to prate at your pleasure; otherwise your word i●… no warrant for any wise man to depend on. The Scriptures testify first Christ's sorrow in the Garden, and then his sweat like blood. His sorrow where he saith, 
r Matth. 26.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, my s●…le is every way (grieved or) afflicted with sorrow even unto death. His sweat, after he was comforted by an Angel from heaven, and fell to fervent prayer. So saith Saint Luke; An Angel appeared to him from heaven comforting him. And being in an Agony he prayed 
s Luk. 22.  more earnestly, and his sweat fell on the earth like drops of blood. Now an Agony doth not properly or necessarily infer either fainting fear or deadly pain, as you misconceive; but noteth a contention or intention of body or mind whereby we labour to perform our desire, and strive against the danger which may defeat us, as in place convenient shall more fully appear. Where also you shall see that not fear but fervency in all likelihood was the cause of that bloody sweat. In the mean time it is plain that Christ professed he had sundry causes of his sorrow in the Garden; for he saith my soul is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on every side oppressed with sorrow. And what urged him to that agony or vehemency of prayer, which S. Luke speaketh of, after he was comforted by an Angel, wherein his sweat ran from him l●…ke drops of blood, is not yet agreed on, nor any way confirmed by you: But note any of these six causes, which I conceived might induce our Saviour to this sorrow or sweat; and see whether they have not direct reference to his passion, and a full coherence each with other. Howbeit, you reser●…e that for a fitter place, and so do I  
Why then do I seem to 
t Defenc. pa. 33. li. 10.  refuse them as none of mine, by saying, I showed not mine own opinion but the judgements of the Fathers?] Nay why seem you so void of all understanding, that you apprehend not so much as usual English? 
u john 7.  MY doctrine is not MINE (saith our Saviour) but his that sent me: will you hence conclude a manifest contradiction in Christ, because he saith, mine is not mine, but his that sent me. In possessions, that is mine, which is wholly mine and no man's else; and in opinions, that is properly mine, whereof I am the first inventor and author; howbeit by a larger extension of the word, that is mine also, wherein I communicate with others, though it be not properly or only mine. Out of this distinction of proper & common, known to the very children in Grammar schools, our Saviour saith most truly; My doctrine (that is, the doctrine which I preach, and in that respect is mine) is not mine, is not only mine, nor of my devising, but his that sent me. This were enough to warrant my words; and yet my speech is somewhat plainer: for I added, not MINE OWN opinion, but the judgements of the Fathers. Now mine own is that which is properly mine, and wherein no man partaketh with me; and although you might stumble at Mine, yet MINE OWN would put you out of doubt. So that here, as elsewhere, you bewray the sharpness of your quarreling humour; but if neither you nor your friends could spy any greater faults, than these absurd and ignorant cavils; the Reader will scant trust you hereafter, when you talk of my contrarieties and inconstancies. But how doth this excuse the foulness of your mouth in rejecting the Father's judgements with irreverent and disdainful terms; which was the thing I then reproved in you? If the opinions were only theirs and not mine, would you the rather revile them as fond and absurd, because they were wholly theirs, and no way mine?  

x Defenc. pag. 33. l. ult.  The Fathers you say, I call not so. Such I meant and took for absurd gatherers, as commonly ●…le regard the sound doctrine of the Fathers, but only admire their faults: whom here I noted by the name of our Contraries.] Are you so set on shifting and shuffling, that you can not forbear seven lines but you must needs contradict yourself, and that so grossly, that every Carter may control you? In the seventeenth line of your three and thirtieth page, you tell me, 
y Pa. 33. li. 17.  I am in the best opinion, when I deny these to be mine opinions: and being charged, that insolently you called those judgements of the Father's fond and absurd, you answer (that) these your words are 
z Ibid. li. 24.  purposely meant of those in these days, that delight to vaunt of the Fathers, and chiefly in their errors. Your uncivil and unseemly liveries of fond and absurd opinions and senses, must needs belong either to the Fathers that uttered them, or to me that cited them. To catch me in a kind of contradiction, as you thought, yourself acquit me from holding them: For I deny them, you say, and r●…fuse them as none of mine. On whom then light your fond and absurd speeches, but on the Fathers that first conceived, and first delivered those opinions and senses, which you so much d●…ke and reproach? You meant it not of the Fathers.] You flutter in vain, to free yourself from that lime-twig: against your plain speech no man will admit your secret meaning clean contrary to your words. You say indeed, 
a Trea. pa. 65. li 25.  I know our contraries do fancy other senses of this Text, My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me; but the senses of that text alleged out of the Father's word for word, & the places of the Authors named, when you come after your proud and peremptory manner to examine and censure; you say, to that which was produced out of Jerome and chrysostom, 
b Trea. pa. 66. li. 31.  which sense is most absurd; and this is too fond to be spoken. To the sense noted out of Athanasius, Austen, and Leo, your answer is; 
c Trea. pa. 67. li. 11.  this is no less absurd than the former; there is no cause nor likelihood in the world for it. So when the testimonies of Ambrose, Austen, jerom and Bede were produced, that the rejection of the jews might be some cause of Christ's sorrow in the Garden; you grossly mistake their words, as if they had expounded Christ's complaint on the cross, and pertly rejoin, 
d Trea pa. 68 li. 3. & 8.  this is more fond and absurd than the other; there is no sense nor reason in it. How think you Sir? speak you of the men, or of the matter, when you say, this sense is most absurd, this is too fond to be spoken? Could you wrench your words from the matter to the reporter, which you can not; what gain you by that? If to allege these opinions of Fathers, be so fond and absurd, as you say, though I refuse them, as you a●…ch I did; what was it in the Fathers themselves to profes●…e and publish those most fond and absurd senses (as you call them) to all ages and Churches, but mere and inexcusable madness? But tie your tongue shorter, lest men think you mad, thus to rave at everiething, be it never so learned or advised, that rangeth not with your erroneous fancy. They have spoken wisely and gravely, and your kicking and win●…ing at their religious and sober expositions with such scornful phrases, may discover your coltish conceits, it can never decrea●…e or craze their credits.  
I 
e Defenc. pag. 3●….  cast a needless rebuke upon you for confounding the causes of the agony and the complaint together.] Though all your exceptions to the Father's expositions of that text, 
The Defender doth grossly mistake the rejection of the jews to be the meaning of Christ's complaint on the cross.  My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me, be most frivolous and foolish; yet none is more babish than when you mistake the rejection of the jews (which I showed out of Ambrose, jerom, Austen and Bede might be some cause of Christ's sorrow after his last supper) to be the meaning of his complaint on the Cross: and would needs in a flaunt affirm that ME in those words of Christ (why hast thou forsaken me) doth not signify my whole Nation; which of my certain knowledge never came into my head, nor ever out of my mouth. For I took care to wade no further in expounding them than the Scriptures and Fathers went before me; and howsoever his sorrow for them might happily not cease before his death; yet there was no cause why having formerly prayed his Father to forgive them, that knew not what they did, he should now call the rest of the perfidious and obstinate jews by the name of himself. If you stand to uphold this oversight, you show yourself to have less judgement in maintaining it, than you had in mistaking it; but you have stood too long on these irifles, which I think to be true: for you trifle indeed, and neither in defence of yourself, nor disadvantage of me, bring any thing that is material. You come therefore to peruse how you have ignorantly and purposely perverted my reasons.  
That the 
f Defenc. pag. 35.  true sacrifice for sin must be indeed BODILY, BLOODY and DEAD, we doubt not; we unfeignedly and heartily embrace it. The patriarchs believed it, the jews sacrifices of beasts figured it, the New Testament confirmeth it. But what will follow then? ergo Christ's bodily death only and merely was the whole ransom and price of our sin? for we must note that this is the very question indeed; this is the point of our controversy.] 
The Defender not able to support his errors, doth quarrel with the question.  When you can say nothing to support your errors, you begin to quarrel with the question; as if you had or could prescribe me what I should preach of. What I by warrant of holy Scripture received into the contents of Christ's cross, and what I excluded from the same, is evident by my words; you may not come after and alter the question to your liking. Into the Cross of Christ I admitted whatsoever the Holy ghost witnesseth the Son of God suffered either on his cross, or going to his cross. My words are plain, 
g Serm. pag. 8. li. 35.  the rest which went b●…fore, not being excluded as superfluous, but continued and increased by that sharp and extreme martyrdom which he endured on the cross. And good reason had I so to do: for all the pains and griefs of body or mind which befell him between his last supper and his fastening to the cross, endured and augmented on the cross; and so by no means might be excluded from his cross. What things I then excluded from the cross of Christ, is as manifest by mine own words; which neither I can hide, nor you may change. These they are: 
h Serm. pag. 8. li. 23.  Some men in our days stretch (the cross of Christ) a great deal farther, to the death both of body and soul, and unto the whole pains of the damned in hell: but upon how just grounds, when you hear, you m●…y judge as you see cause. Then showing what might be tolerated, if men could therewith be contented, and that I neither refuted those which took hell pains hyperbolically for 
i Ibid. li. 29. li 36.  great and intolerable pains; nor those that by hell pains understood either 
k Pag 9 li. 1. & 3.  a wrestling with the very powers of hell, or trembling at the terror of God's vengeance provoked by our sins, so they put no distrust nor doubt in Christ's soul of his own salvation or our redemption, but leave him firm faith always fixed on God: I repeated again, what it was I impugned; to wit, that 
l Serm. pag. 9 li. 14.  some men in our days will no nay, but that Christ on the cross suffered the self same pains in soul, which the damned do in hell, and endured even the death of the soul. here Sir is the question as I first proposed it, I no where alter it, no●… vary from it: both these, I mean the death of the soul, and the self same pains which the damned in hell do suffer, I excluded from the cross of Christ, and consequently from the work of our redemption; which I avouched to be perfect and full without either of those additions. To this are all my proofs directed, and from this by your leave I may not suffer you to wander: 
m Defenc. pa. 35. li. 32.  Your mere bodily sufferings without any proper sufferings of the soul take back to yourself; I have no such words, nor make no such doubts; the death of the soul and the self same pains which the damned do suffer, and we should have suffered, had we not been redeemed, which is the second death or the death of the damned, are the things brought by me in question. Wherefore howsoever you will understand my meaning contrary to my words, because you would shroud yourself under the covert of these words MERE AND PROPER, I must recall all my reasons to those two points to which I first intended them: and whether I speak ambiguously or deceitfully, or change my question, or charge you unjustly that you slip from the question to certain general and doubtful terms, let the Reader in God's name judge.  
My proofs to my purpose stand sound and good. The true sacrifice for sin by the Apostles Doctrine hath these three properties in it; it must be BODILY, BLOODY, and DEADLY; that is, it must have the bodily and bloody death of the mediator, who must be the Son of God. This the patriarchs belee●…ed, the jewish sacrifices prefigured, the new Testament confirmeth. What followeth you ask. Erg●… Christ's bodily death only and merely was the whole ransom and price of sin? Without your terms of proper and mere you are no body. My reason is in sight. The death which the Mediator must die for the sins of the world must be bodily and bloody. The death of the soul, in this life, and the death of the damned after this life (which are the pains of hell) could not be bodily and bloody. Therefore neither of them was the death which the Mediator must or did die for the sins of the world. If he died neither of those, than he died the death of the body only, for so much as the Scriptures mention no kinds of death but only these three, except it be by way of figurative speech. Do you now see what followeth? then what is your answer? 
o Defenc. pa. 35. li. 32.  If I mean that the MERE bodily sufferings of Christ without any proper sufferings of his soul are the entire and whole Ransom for sin, than you affirm expressly, there is no piece of reason in these words.] You are a PROPER and MERE Gentleman to spot out matters of this importance. I conclude by the Apostles assertion that Christ for the sins of the world died neither the death of the soul, nor the death of the da●…ed, which is the pains of hell and second death; but ONLY a BODILY death. You reel too and fro, and stumble first at bodily, and then at only, and in the end say you know not what. If I mean that Christ's MERE BODILY sufferings without any proper su●…ings of the soul were the whole ransom for sin, than you see no reason in my words.] Thus much reason you may hear in my words, that Christ died neither the death of the Soul, nor the death of the damned, but ONLY a BODILY death, that is the death of the body and none other kind of death. What say you to this? 
p Pag 8. & 14.  This is not your Contro●…ersie, you say; the very question indeed is as you have set it.] Have you a Commission, when I have proposed questions which I mind to impugn; to come after me and new set my questions? Acknowledge the death of the soul, and the death of the dam●…d, which are the true pains of hell, to be no part of Christ's sufferings, and we shall soon conclude that Christ died only a bodily death for the sins of the world. But you after your slight and slippery manner, though even here you deny it very stiffly, when you be pressed with reasons or authorities, convey yourself presently to your ambiguous and deceitful terms of mere bodily sufferings, and the proper sufferings of the soul, and from thence you make your advantage. But what are mere bodily sufferings? such as have no communion neither with the sense nor grace of the soul? can a living body die a shameful and cruel death as Christ did and the soul neither like or mislike it, nor so much as feel it? This you infer upon the word only, when I conclude that Christ died a bodily death only.  

q Defenc. pa. ●…5. li 36.  If the sacrifice (say you) As it is only bodily and bloody do wholly purge sin ‖ it followeth that no action or passion of the soul, neither by Sympathy nor any other, I say none at all As being in the soul, was regarded as propitiatory and meritorious.] Grant first 
●… Ft pa. 36. l. 2. What is contained in Christ's bodily death.  your own terms to be true, (which are neither my words nor my meaning) that Christ's MERE bodily sufferings without any proper sufferings of the soul were the whole Ransom for sin; how exclude you the sense, affections, and actions of Christ's soul not to be meritorious? Had Christ any sufferings in his body which his soul felt not? and when his soul felt them, did he not patiently, obediently, and willingly endure them for our sakes? Or was not the patience, obedience, and love of Christ meritorious? How then will it follow, that if Christ's sufferings were MERE BODILY without any proper sufferings of the soul, no affection nor action of Christ's soul was meritorious? But you add ●…f the Sacrifice, As it is only bodily bloody and deadly doth wholly purge sin, th●…n no action nor passion of the soul was propitiatory and meritorious.] If you mean that Christ's body as it was only dead (for that is your word) did without soul or life wholly purge sin, than indeed your consequent is good, that neither action nor passion of the soul could be propitiatory, because the soul was not present when the body was dead. But who maketh that blockish Antecedent besides yourself? Or who ever excluded Christ's innocence, obedience, patience, charity, and digni●…e from his bodily and bloody sacrifice before you? will you sever the manner of offering from the thing offered, and call it a perfect and propitiatory sacrifice?  
As it was only bodily and bloody, it had no communion with any action or passion of Christ's soul, As being in the soul.] Why entangle you the Reader with an As and an As of your own adding, which no where are found in my words? What sense can any wise man pike out of this? The sacrifice, As it is only bodily, excludeth all actions and passions of the soul, As being in the soul.] Is it so strange a kind of speech to say that Christ died only a bodily death, which so many learned and ancient Fathers have so frequently v●…ed before me, that you should bring in your As and your As thus to kick at it? In death as in death, if thereby you mean the privation and want of soul and life, there is neither pain, nor sense; and in the body As in the body, if you take the body for a dead corpse there is no absolute necessity of a soul; otherwise no body could be dead. What then? Had therefore Christ's body no soul, nor his death no pain, when he suffered for our sins? Or are you of late so soused in Sophistry, that when you hear of a body you will infer, there is neither action nor pa●…sion of the soul in that body, as in a body? or wh●…n you are told of a man tormented to death, you will assure us that in his death, as death, he had neither pain nor sense? All men besides you, conceive in the sufferings of the body, the soul as the soul must have the sense and feeling thereof, and is thereby urged by God's ordinance to seek for the cause and ease thereof. 
r Hose. ●….  In their affliction (saith God by his Prophet) they will seek me. And David, 
s Psal. 82.  fill their faces with shame, that the may seek thy name. And likewise by the suffering of death they understand the pain and sting of death approaching, and lastly separating the soul from the body. And therefore Christ's sacrifice for sin though it were only bodily; because no part of Christ died but only the body, yet the soul endured the pain and discerned the cause thereof. And though it were deadly, because it ended in death and was finished by death; yet the actions and affections of Christ's soul, as well from herself as from his body, at the time of his passion impressed, or stirred, either by the cause, smart, author, or manner of his sufferings were meritorious, and made way for the satisfaction of sin, which was not accomplished but by that death of Christ's body, that God had determined. Let therefore the Reader judge how well you impugn my conclusion, that Christ died for our sins the death of the body only, and not the death of the soul nor of the damned; and how vainly you vouch, Christ's death and sacrifice as they were bodily, had neither pains nor patience, obedience nor charity, nor any other action or passion of his soul in them.  

t Defenc. pa. 36.  Elsewhere I see in you manifest contrariety hereunto; for sundry times you teach that Christ did suffer peculiarly and severally some proper punishments, (which I hope were propitiatory and meritorious) in his soul, besides his bodily suffering; yea that this was a part of his cross and an effect of God wrath on his soul, as well as the suffering in his body. I pray thee Christian Reader observe, that this Discourser plainly and fully here confes●…eth that I SUNDRY times teach, that Christ BESIDES his bodily sufferings did suffer peculiarly and severally some PROPER punishments in his soul; and that this was a part of his Cross, as well as the sufferings of his body. Now judge whether it be not a mere shift for him to bear thee in hand, that the question betwixt us is, whether Christ's mere bodily sufferings without any proper sufferings of the soul be all that Christ suffered for our sins, and the whole ransom for sin; or whether that be or can be my meaning as he outfaced thee the next 
u Pag. 35. li. 3●….  Page before; the contrary whereof I sundry times teach as he now confesseth. But I cross myself, he thinketh, & write I know not what. Sir Trifler if I contradict myself, show me my words, my writing is extant. If you will be privy to my meaning against my words, you are a strange if not a sturdy Prophet. But indeed I have neither meaning nor words sounding that way. I avouch that Christ for our sins suffered the death of the body only, and not of the soul; or no death but only the death of the body. Upon these words, the death of the body only, if it may be inferred by any reason or learning, ergo, Christ's dead body deprived of soul and sense was the whole Ransom for our sins, for that he meaneth by Christ's death: or, ergo no action, nor passion of Christ's soul before or on his cross was meritorious: If I say these conclusions do necessarily follow out of those words or out of the meaning of them; then I must confes●…e I am foully overshot in my speech. But if these be most ignorant and absurd collections from my words, and from theirs that used that spe●…ch before me; then mayest thou see, Christian Reader, what meaning this man hath throughout this book, purposely to pervert and misconstrue all that I say, to make thee believe I broach some strange and wondrous Doctrine. But shifts l●… hid but a while, the shame in the end will be his.  

x Defenc. pa. 36. li. 13.  How then can that which I sundry times teach of Christ's sufferings in his soul be true if our whole ran●…om and propitiation be bodily bloody and deadly, only which is the point ●…here stand on? What contradiction find you in my words, that Christ might have and had sufferings in his soul, as fear, sorrow, and affliction of mind and yet died no death, but only a bodily? Only a bodily death doth not exclude all pains which are not bodily, but all deaths, save the death of the body. Wherefore my conclusion is wh●…re it was, That the death which the Mediator must suffer for sin, by the Apostles doctrine must only be bodily and bloody; and therefore by no means the death of the soul, or of the damned. [Yet this ●…as not our whole r●…some you say, nor the whole sacrifice for sin, the sufferings of his soul must be added unto it. When I speak of Christ's death, I understand that manner and order of his death which the Evangelists describe; for so the Scriptures mean when they speak of Christ's death; and from that death I do not sever those sufferings of his soul which the Scriptur●…s mention, because the sharpness of that death which his body was to suffer, drove him to the deep consideration of the cause, why; of the judge from whom; and the captive, for whom he suffered. Christ otherwise had not suffered death as a Redeemer, if he had been ignorant of any of these; or compelled by force to endure the fury of the jews: he had power enough to stay their rage, & decline their bloody hands; yea, to avert or decrease the pains, as he thought good; but because he was to offer himself as a willing sacrifice to suffer death to save us from the wrath of his Father; he laid aside his own power, and submitted himself wholly to be disposed at his Father's will, which the Scriptures call his obedience unto death. When therefore he foresaw and felt how sharp and painful that death would be, and was, which he must and did suffer for our sins; was it possible he should not fully cast the eyes of his ●…inde upon the horror of our sins, which did so sting him? upon the fierceness of God's wrath, which did so pursue him though he were his innocent and only son? and upon the terrible vengeance that rested for us, if he should mislike or ref●…se to bear the burden of our offences? If any man learned think it possible for Christ to suffer the one, and not in spirit most clearly to see the other, I am content he shall se●…er the sufferings of Christ's soul from the grief and anguish of his bodily death: but if it be more than absurd so to conceive; then find we that the sight and sense of Christ's extreme torments in body caused and urged his soul thoroughly to behold these things with fear and sorrow, which in themselves were most fearful, and could not ch●… but affect Christ's soul deeply and diversly. As for the whole ransom of our sin, we shall have occasion in the next reason more largely to treat of.  

y Defenc. pa. 36.  But you have reasons, you say, to confirm your main matter; among many, these two: the first, the jewish sacrifices shadowing and foreshowing; the second, the sacraments of Christians testifying and confirming, that the true sacrifice for sin was bodily and bloody. Still what trifling is this? doth any in the world deny, that the true sacrifice for sin was the body, blood, and death of the Redeemer? Wherefore the proposition must be, as I did set it in your behalf: the jewish sacrifices were shadows or figures, and our sacraments were signs of our whole and absolute redemption by Christ, I say of the whole and entire propitiatory sacrifice, or else you shrink and leave the question.] When I lack one to set propositions in my behalf, I will send to you for help: till then spare your pains, except you might reap more thanks. But you must learn to get you plainer terms, or at least more plainly to expound them, if you will needs be a setter of propositions: for what is the WHOLE sacri●…ice propitiatory? and what is our WHOLE redemption? By the whole sacrifice mean you the whole person of Christ, that gave himself for us? or intent you the whole action, whereby he sanctified, submitted, and presented himself as a sacrifice of a sweet smell unto God? or by the whole, understand you all that in Christ was devoted and delivered unto death for the satisfaction of God's justice? And so our whole redemption, do you refer it only to remission of sins, as the Apostle doth when he saith, We have redemption through Christ's blood, even the forgiveness of sins? or also to deliverance from the dominion and infection of sin, and to the abolishing of all corruption in soul and body; which is our whole and absolute redemption? When the powers of heaven shall be shaken, and the Son of man come in a cloud with power and great glory, then 
z Luc. 21.  lift up your heads (saith Christ) for your redemption draweth near. 
a Ephes. 4.  You are sealed (by the holy Spirit) unto the day of redemption, sayeth Paul. And David: God shall 
b Psal. 72.  redeem their souls from deceit and violence; that is, he shall deliver their soul●…s. The Saints, as the Apo●…e speaketh, 
c Hebr. 11.  were racked, and would admit no redemption to obtain a better resurrection; where, by redemption he meaneth deliverance. As Zacharias said, God hath 
d Luc. 1.  visited and sent redemption to his people; that is, salvation (or deliverance) from our enemies, and from the hands of all that hate us, to serve him in holiness and righteousness all the days of our life. So that our whole and absolute redemption compriseth all the degrees and steps of our salvation, as justification, sanctification, and glorification; and these though they were merited and obtained for us by Christ's obedience unto d●…ath, yet are they performed and accomplished by divers other means therewith concurring and thereon depending, as by the grace of his spirit, the working of his power, and glory of his coming. And therefore the words which you have set in my behalf, are like their author; that is, they are ambiguous and quarrelous.  
The whole propitiatory sacrifice are words as doubtful as the other: for since Christ was the Priest, who 
e Heb. 9  by his eternal spirit offered himself unspotted to God, and 
f Eph. 5.  gave himself for us to be an offering and sacrifice of a sweet smell unto God; his innocence and obedience chiefly rested in his soul, & thence sanctified his body, which suffered death for the ransom of our sins. Though then all things in Christ were holy and acceptable unto God, and so sacrifices most meritorious; yet nothing did fully satisfy the justice of God for sin, nor make a perfect reconciliation for us with God, but his obedience unto death. For that which must satisfy for sin, must be death; other ransom for sin God neither in his wisdom and counsel would, nor in his truth and justice could accept, after his will once determined and declared. It was the first wages appointed and denounced by God to sin: 
g Gene. 2.  In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt die the death; (or certainly thou shalt die;) the doubling of the word noting the inflexibilit●…e of God's counsel and justice. The Apostle witnesseth the same, when he saith, 
h Rom. 6.  The wages of sin is death. Then as sin was irreuocab●…e rewarded with death, so must it necessarily be redeemed by death. Which rule stood so sure, that when the Son of God would give himself for us to redeem us, he could not do it (by reason of God's immutable counsel and decree) but by death. Wherefore the Apostle calleth him the 
i Hebr. 9  Mediator of the New testament through death for the redemption of transgressions. And where a testament is, there MU BE (saith he) the death of the testator. He contenteth not himself to say there was, but there must be the death of the testator, before we could be redeemed. A necessity not simply binding God's power, but plainly declaring his counsel to be fixed, and his will revealed.  
Since than Christ was to 
k Hebr. 2.  taste death for all men, that through death he might destroy him which had power of death, even the devil; and deliver us who were 
l Rom. 5.  reconciled to God by the death of his son; the point (which indeed we both must stand on) is; what death Christ suffered to redeem us from sin, and to reconcile us unto God; whether it were the death of the damned, which is the second death; or the death of the soul; or (as I avouch) the death of the body only. Other parts of Christ's person, and beams of his virtues, and kinds of his sufferings are not to this qu●…stion, ●…arther than they commended and presented to God Christ's death which must ransom our sins; but the scope to which all the rest was referred, and the ●…lose which consummated all the rest, was death; and therefore no sufferings of Christ were parts of the propitiatory sacrifice which ransomed sin, but such as ended in death, or tended to that sorrowful, shameful and painful death of Christ, which by order of God's justice was appointed to satisfy for sin. The fullness of which satisfaction consisted in death, and therefore the death and blood of Christ though they were not the whole sacrifice, yet were they the full and perfect ransom and price for sin; because without them the rest could not prevail, and to them all the rest was directed. If then you will deal plainly as you pretend, or not forget your duty to God and his truth, you must leave cavilling with the words of the Holy Ghost, and go soberly to consider, not whether any other sufferings, but whether any other death of Christ's be mentioned in the Scriptures to ransom our sins, besides the death of his body. If you find any other there, profess ●…t in God's name; if you find none but only that described or mentioned in the Scriptures, leave snarling at the depth and breadth of those words which the Spirit of God hath authorized, and learn rather to understand them truly, than vainly to oppose against them.  
In sense and substance there is no difference betwixt these words, the death, blood, and cross of Christ; the cross noting the tree, whereon Christ died a reproachful and cruel death for us; and his blood expressing the manner of his death by sundry sorts of shedding the same, as by whipping, piercing his head with thorns, boaring his hands and feet to fasten him to the cross, and hanging him thereon three hours by the soreness of his wounds, till his soul departed from his body. To make these jar one with the other, which the holy Ghost had knit together, is the sign of a busy, but not of godly wit; and howsoever you and your adherents can flourish with figures of Grammar, you were best take heed that you turn not your ears from the truth of God. The bodily death which Christ died to ransom our sins, the holy Ghost doth note sometimes by his Flesh, sometimes by his Body, sometimes by his Blood and sometimes by his Cross, and these either joined or severed; and sometimes also by his soul or life laid down or powered out unto death for us. We find them joined, when Paul saith, 
m Coloss 1.  It pleased (God) by Christ to reconcile all things to himself and to pacify by the BLOOD of his Cross through him, both things in earth and things in heaven. And you which in times past were strangers and enemies, hath he now reconciled in the BODY OF HIS FLESH through death. Severed are they when Peter saith; 
n 1. Pet. 1.  You were redeemed by the precious blood of Christ as a Lamb undefiled; Who 
o Hebr. 9  by his own blood (saith the Apostle) entered in once into the holyplace, and obtained eternal Redemption. And so when john saith, 
p 1. john 1.  The blood of jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin. As likewife Paul; 
q Ephe. 1.  We have Redemption through his blood, even the Remission of sins. Of his body himself saith; 
r Luke 22.  This is my body, which is given for you; and 
s john 6.  my flesh will I give for the life of the world: so are 
t Hebr. 10.  we sanctified by the offering of the body of jesus Christ once. Likewise of his soul by which the Scripture meaneth his life for that life wholly dependeth upon the presence of the soul in the body; 
u john 10.  My Father loveth me (saith Christ) because I lay down my soul (or life.) 
x Matt. 20.  The son of man came to give his soul (or life) as a ransom for many. And Esay foreshowed that Christ should divide the spoil of (or with) the mighty, Because he 
y Esa. 53.  powered out his soul unto death, which severeth the soul from the body; and so made it an offering for sin by laying it down of himself, that death might seize on his body. This then being the main foundation of the Gospel, which the Apostle received, that 
z 1. Co●…in. 15.  Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, the Question still standeth as I first set it, What death Christ died for our sins by the witness of holy Scriptures, and not what sufferings went before, or what other things joined with his death, which is the hole that you would feign hide yourself in. To that intent, which I set down, my reasons drawn from the jewish sacrifices and Christians sacraments did, and do still stand effectual. For the old sacrifices must figure, and the new Sacraments must seal whatsoever death in Christ was the full and perfect ransom of our sins. But they foreshow and confirm the bodily death of Christ only; they neither show not signify the death of the soul, nor the death of the damned. Therefore the bodily death of Christ only is the full and perfect ransom of our sins: the death of the soul, and the death of the damned, as they served nothing to our Redemption, so were they not suffered in the soul of Christ.  
Two cavils you offer against the first part of this reason touching the sacrifices of the fathers before and under the law. One that they figured not the whole sacrifice, as neither Christ's Deity, his soul, nor his resurrection: the next that all the sacrifices of the jews did not signify his bodily death, because the Escape goat, which was a sin offering, was not slain. Of trifling you talk much, this is more than trifling, it is plain shifting. Christ's deity could be no part of that sacrifice which suffered for sin; the divine Majesty can not suffer either pain or sorrow. To what end then come you in with Christ's Godhead, when you talk of his suffering for sin? His soul, you say, was not figured by those sacrifices.] The suffering death in his soul was indeed no way figured by them; but that the mediator should have an human soul to be separated from his body by death, before he could make purgation of our sins; that was more than figured by those sacrifices. For since not the blood of beasts, but of man, and even of the Son of God made man, was by God's promise to be shed for our sins; It is evident that from life to death he could not come, but by severing his soul from his body. And consequently he must have a soul being a man, which must be powered out unto death, before he could die, even as the powers of life in bloody sacrifices were parted from their flesh, before they could be offered as sacrifices unto God.  
But I 
a Defenc. pa. 36. li. 31.  charge you untruly when I say, you expound your whole and absolute Redemption to be of all the fruits and causes of our Redemption: you have no such word nor meaning as fruits.] Your words are our whole and absolute Redemption, and those I say contain the whole course of our salvation even unto the last step, which is our glorification, as I have formerly proved by Christ's own speech. Again if the 
b Treati pa. 11. li 30.  resurrection of Christ, which is your own instance, be a part of that propitiatory sacrifice, because it was a necessary consequent, than all the benefits that Christ obtained for us, or bestowed on us, must be comprised in that his oblation for sin. For they are all necessary consequents and effects of our Redemption, and depend on these two branches; his death to free us from sin, and his resurrection to raise us into a new and heavenly life now & for ever. He was 
c Rom. 4.  delivered (to death) for our sins, and rose again for our justification. From these two heads the Scriptures derive not only forgiveness of sins, but newness of life on earth, and happiness of life in heaven. Yet you did not call them fruits. Effects you called them, and what is a joyful effect, such as was Christ's resurrection, but a fruit? and that as well in Christ as in us? When the Prophet saith of Christ 
d Esay. 53.  he shall see the travail of his soul, and be satisfied, what meaneth he but the fruits and effects of Christ's labour? when for his obedience to death, God highly exalted him, and gave him a name above every name, that every knee should bow unto him, what is this but a fruit and reward of his humiliation, first, in his own person, then proportionably in all that be his?  

e Defenc. pa. 37. li. 5.  Many of the jews sacrifices, yea most of them, did represent and signify Christ's bodily sufferings only, yet not all. Therefore you may well deny mine assumption, as you did before; and affirm that certain jewish Sacrifices set forth the sufferings even of the soul of Christ, and not of his body only.] Did I any where say that all the jewish sacrifices were bloody? or that all of them did represent Christ's death and blood shedding? Could I be ignorant, that the jews had oblations made only by fire, as of flower, wine, and incense? and also offerings of the first fruits, and other things dedicated or presented to the Lord for the use of his tabernacle and Temple? Doth not the Apostle say; 
f Heb. 5.  Every high Priest is ordained for men to offer GIFTS and SACRIFICES for sin? Where gifts show, that things without life were offered as well as living beasts and birds which were slain. As then there was no cause, nor need I should, so I never used the word ALL in that case, unless I added living or BLOODY Sacrifices. For they by their life lost and blood shed figured the death of Christ jesus. But this ALL is your adding to my words, that you may take occasion to pike some quarrel at them.  
But you may well deny my assumption, that no sacrifices of the jews did figure the sufferings of Christ's soul.] I assumed no such thing, neither did I meddle with the sufferings of Christ's soul, unless they were the death of the soul, or the pains of hell, which the Scripture calleth the second death; and I the death of the damned; because none besides the damned die that second death: but you plainly give me the slip; and convey yourself from speaking of the death of the soul or of the death of the damned, which are the things in Question, to the sufferings of the soul in general, of which I make no Question. And though your meaning be, under the sufferings of the soul to comprise the tormenting of Christ's soul by the immediate hand of God with the self same pains which the damned do feel in hell; Yet such is your carriage, that every where you suppress your main intent, and make a fair show with the sufferings of Christ's soul, as if you meant no more, but that Christ's soul must needs have some sufferings proper to itself; which you confess I sundry times teach; and yet you make your Reader believe, I ever impugn. You shall do well to awake out of this slumber and call to mind, that there are no sufferings of Christ's soul now in question, but the DEATH of the SOUL, or of the DAMNED; which you dare not openly avouch, and therefore you plaster them over with smother terms of the sufferings of the soul; to hide your secret mysteries till you meet with itching ears, that will listen more to fancies then to faith. Another piece of skill you show in this place, to ease yourself of all proof, and think it enough if you once deny it. For where you affirm that certain Sacrifices of the jews set forth (those) sufferings of Christ's soul, which you mean; and I utterly denied that any sacrifices of the jews did show the suffering of hell pains in Christ's soul, or any other kind of death besides the death of the body only: you take not the pains to make any proof of that you a●…rme, but stand in your state, and say you deny my assumption. As if the negative being mine, and the affirmative yours, you were not by all rules of R●…ason to prove your a●…atiue; and it sufficed me to stand on the negative, till you made just proof of the contrary. [Here you will say you do bring proof for your assertion.] Here indeed you spend three leaves in talking of it as your manner is; howbeit your word is here, as throughout your writings, the best warrant you offer us for this cause. But let us hear your examples and proofs.  
First, that 
g Defenc. pa. ●…7 li. 10.  sacrifice consisting of two goats, a slain and a scape-goat. You object here against; first, that I abuse the Text. That were a great fault; but let us view the Text.] Against your instance of the Scape-goat figuring as you would have it, the suffe●…ings 
My Exceptions to the Defenders instance of the Scape-goat.  of Christ's soul; I made three exceptions: First, that the Scripture did not call the Scape-goat a Sacrifice for sin: Secondly, that no proof was or could be made, that the Scapegoat signified the soul of Christ: Thirdly, that if both those were granted, which were no way proved, the Scape-goat suffering nothing, but being let loose into the wilderness, did rather infer that Christ's soul was freed from all such sufferings as you would force upon it. To the last, which is the chiefest, you take the pains to say little; and so give the Reader to understand, that your bold assertion is the best foundation of your proof: for if you can not show, as you neither do nor can, that the Scape-goat by the Scriptures suffered any thing; how will you bring it about, that the Scape-goat figured the sufferings of Christ's soul? shall no suffering be a figure of suffering? such may your figures be; but the wisdom of God maketh figures for similitude and resemblance to the truth; and not for contrariety to it, as you do. The chiefest point than you clean slide from, and take hold on some words in Moses text, about which you think you may wrangle with some more likelihood.  
The very express w●…rds of the text, you say, are these: Aaron shall take of the people two goats for a sin offering. And very good reason must I bring to frustrate so pl●… a speech.] I am far from bringing any thing to frustrate the Scriptures; but if the Scripture express itself, I prefer that before your misapplying the words to your will. (Aaron) shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two goats (for sin.) So stand the words, if you will needs appeal precisely to the text. Here is a taking (of two goats) and an intent for sin declared in general, but the particular manner of using and ordering either of them according to God's appointment followeth in distinct and direct w●…ds. Aaron 
h Leuitic. 16. verse 7.  shall take the two goats and make them stand before the Lord at the door of the Tabernacle. And Aaron shall give lots upon both goats, one lot for the Lord and another for the Scape-goat. And Aaron shall make the goat on which the l●… fell for the Lord to draw near, and shall make him ready (or) sacrifice him for sin. For here is AASA'HV added, which in the Scriptures usually signifieth to make ready a Sacrifice. And he shall kill the goat that is for sin, for the people, and bring his blood within the vai●…e. In as plain words as the former be, or any can be, that goat on which the lot fell for the Lord, must be made ready, that is, sacrificed for sin, of which he spoke at first; and that which was the people's sin-offering must be slain, and his blood brought within the vail. But neither of these agree to the Scape-goat: therefore the Scape-goat was not the sin offering for the people, which the Scripture in that place mentioneth. 
i Defenc. pa. 37. li. 21.  These words (you say) prove not that the Scape-goat was no sin-offering at all.] These particular circumstances do plainly prove, which of the two goats was made the people's sin-offering, and so convince that you inlargc the words of Moses without any just ground to serve your own conceit. Two sinne-offerings were not taken from the people, but two goats were taken for sin, and one of them sacrificed for the people, as was after prescribed and performed; and Aaron commanded for him and his house 
k Levitic 16. vers. 6.  to offer a bullock for his sin-offering. So that where the Scripture mentioneth no more sinne-offerings for the people but one, neither useth the word AASA but to one of them; that one was prepared and slain by God's commandment as a sin-offering for the people, where the Scape-goat was preserved alive, and sent away into the wilderness, to show the force of the former sacrifice by carrying with it the sins of the people.  

l Defence pag. 37. li. 28.  I take a sacrifice and offering in the largest sense, as signifying any consecrated thing given to God to appease him for sin. And such unbloody sinne-offerings very many we shall find in Moses Law. Wherefore the Scape-goat may be a sin-offering, though it were not slain or bloody.] That the word Sacrifice may be diversly taken, and applied to things unbloody and ghostly, I have no doubt: but that one and the same word, in one and the same place, should import both a bloody and unbloody sacrifice for sin, is a shift of yours without all sense, it hath no show in the sacred Scriptures. Again, the sacrifices for sin, were they bloody or unbloody, which are mentioned in Moses law, and namely in all those places which you quote in your margin; they were all without exception OFFERED to God by FIRE; the things living suffered first death by effusion of blood; the things without life, as flower, oil, wine, and such like, were cast into the fire where the bloody sacrifices were burned; and so without blood or fire no sacrifice for sin is appointed in Moses law. Since then the Scape-goat was neither slain nor touched with fire, but sent forth alive into the wilderness; what do those examples of things unbloody, yet offered by fire, help you to prove, that the Scape-goat living was such a sin offering as many are found in Moses law?  

m Defenc. pa. 38. li. 13.  Can there be any thing in the world more full and strong to prove that the Scape-goat also was a true sin-offering, or rather a true part of this whole and entire sin-offering consisting and being complete in both these goats, the slain and the Scape-goat? For as the slain so the Scape-goat, we see, was CONSECRATED to the Lord, and here OFFERED (to make reconciliation by him) and separated from men, and bar●… upon him all the sins of the people.] You be come now from a sin-offering to a part of a sin offering; and that you prove, because the Scape-goat was 
n Pag ut supra li. 5.  CONSECRATED and OFFERED to make reconciliation by him. All these words are your own adding to the text; and if you keep that course, you may prove what you list, if not by the Scriptures, at least by your commentaries upon the Scriptures. The words of Moses in that verse, which you quote, are those: And the goat (on which the lot fell to be the Escape goa●…) shall be 
o Leuitic. 16. vers. 10.  brought alive before the Lord, LECAPPER, to pray over him (o●… to carry away sin by him) and to send him for the Scape-goat into the desert. You ask whose translation this is. The●…s that had better skill in the Hebrew tongue than you or I. The ancient translation of the Latin Church hath, ut funda●… preces super ●…um; to make prayers over him; which Isychius, Nicolaus de Lyra, and Arias Montanus ●…o follow. Pagnin●… saith, ad emundandum per illum, to cleanse, or carry away sin by him, which Vatablus in his notes varieth by adrogandum, to pray over him. That the Scape-goat was consecrated or offered, there are no such words in Moses text; except you mean, that the bringing of the goat before God was the offering of it, and the praying over it was the consecrating of it; but these be silly conjectures to prove the consecration and oblation of a Sacrifice. The Scape-goat therefore was not the half sin-offering of the people as you pretend; it was a sensible figure of the acceptance of the former Sacrifice, whose blood was carried within the vail, and made a full propitiation for all their sins; as much as those Sacrifices could effect. And in token thereof the Priest was willed before their faces by imposing his hands and confessing their iniquities, to let them see, that the Lord removed all their sins out of his sight, as that goat was carried away from the sight of men into the wilderness. So that the Scape-goat was nothing given to God for sin as you would have it, but showed rather a rejection and detestation of sin by his departure into the desert, and was no sanctified and accepted sacrifice for sin, as the other was who●…e blood did make the purgation of their sins, and reconcile them to God by his figuring and their believing in the true and eternal sacrifice for sin.  
Was not the Scape-goat than a figure of Christ as well as the slain goat?] Though certain 
The Scape-goat might in some sort be a figure of Christ.  Fathers do sometimes resemble the Scape-goat to the wicked and reprobate, which is not so wide a wandering from the truth, as your wresting it to signify the sufferings of Christ's soul; yet neither did I, nor do I gainsay, but the Scape-goat might in some sort be a figure of Christ, notwithstanding all things in it can not be proportioned to Christ, for so no figure can match him: yet that doth not prove it to be sacrifice for sin, much less to foreshow the sufferings of Christ's soul. There were many figures of Christ, yea of Christ's death, as the Brazen Serpent, the Rock in the desert; Samson, jonas, and many such, which were no sacirfices; and so might the Scape-goat prefigure either the cause or shame of his death or both, as the slain goat did the manner and power of his death, and yet be no sin-offering. justine Martyr saith, The two goats 
p justinus in Dial●…go cum Try●…one.  designed the two comings of Christ; the first when the Elders of the people and Priests laying their hands on him and putting him to death, SENT HIM AWAY AS THE SCAPEGOAT. The second, when they shall acknowledge him, whom they dishonoured, to be the sacrifice for all repentant sinners. Te●…ullian is of the same mind: One of the goats 
q Tertul. contra Marcio. li. 3. & advers. judaeos de 2. Christi a●…uentu.  arrayed in red scarlet, aecurfed and spit on, beaten and punched by the people, was cast out of the city into a place of perdition, (thus) marked with manifest signs of the Lords passion. The other offered for sin, and given for food to the Priests of the Temple, secundae repraesentationis argumenta sign bat, sealed the effects of his second appearing. Theodoret referreth the two goats to the two natures of Christ; the 
r Theodoreti quaesti. in Le●…it. & si●…il. Dialogo 3.  ●…laine goat to represent the passable nature of his flesh; the Scape-goat to show the impassable nature of his Divinity. 
s Isychius li. 5. in Leuit. 16.  Isychius doth the like. calvin a man of sharp judgement, and in some sense a maintainer of the sufferings of Christ's soul, yet doth not apply the Scape-goat as you do; but either to witness the resurrection of Christ, as the slain goat did dcclare his death; or to show that Christ was a man devoted to bear the shame and punishment of sin for others. There is here set down (saith he) a 
t calvinus Har●…o. in 4. li. Mosis in 2 praec●…pto ex cap. 16 Levitici.  double way of cleansing sin. For of the two goats, one was offered for a sacrifice after the manner of the Law, the other was sent forth (alive) to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as a thing devoted to destruction for others, or an of-scouring of the people. The truth of either of these figures was exhibited in Christ, because he was the lamb of God, whose slaying abolished the sins of the world; and that he might be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, (one devoted or appointed to bear the plague for others;) all beauty was quenched in him, and he rejected of men. There may be brought a more curious speculation, that the sending away of the (Scape-goat) was a figure of Christ's resurrection; but I embrace that which is more simple and certain, that the goat sent away alive and free was VICE PIACULI (as a thing devoted to bear the brunt for others) that by his departure and leading away, the people might be assured their sins did vanish, and were carried far out of sight. So that though the Priest brought one goat alive for a reconciliation, yet God was not pacified without blood, quia vis expiationis a sacrificio alterius Hirci pendebat, because the force of cleansing sin depended on the sacrifice of the other (slain) goat. Thus have we many significations of the Scape-goat referred even to Christ by old and new writers, and even by some whom you would seem most to follow; and yet none of them applieth it to the sufferings of Christ's soul. So that your assertion in that behalf is but your mere imagination, farther from the words of Moses, than their conjectures which you count widest off. But you will prove it by main might, that shall remove mountains before it.  
It 
u Defenc. pa. 39 li. 4.  must needs be then that the (Scape-goate) signified Christ, yea doubtless Christ man. For the godhead could be no sin-offering neither did it make reconciliation for sin, neither did the Deity bear our sins upon him properly; all which the Scape-goate did. If it were Christ man, it could not be his body, for his body was slain bloodily, the Scape-goate was not slain. It must then be of necessity (I think) the human MORTAL Soul, which the Scape-goate signified.] I know not whether you make the Soul of Christ mortal as your words here stand, because he suffered the death of the soul as you imagine, or whether this were the escape of your Printer; but by such demonstrations as these are, supported with figures and fancies of your own making, you may prove what you will. That the Brazen Serpent was a figure of Christ's death, Christ himself witnesseth. Whence you may infer after your manner, that Christ had no true flesh nor felt death. For the Brazen Serpent had neither flesh to feel, nor life to lose. So the Lord expresseth, that 
x Matth. 12.  jonas was a figure of his lying in the grave; and yet was jonas alive in the Whale's belly. May it therefore be concluded that Christ was never dead, nor buried, because jonas indeed was neither? Figures have a resemblance to some things in Christ, not to all; as the brazen Serpent to his fastening on the Cross, and saving all that beheld him in faith; jonas to the time that he lay in his grave, and to the impossibility conceived of his resurrection. So the Scape-goate notwithstanding your must needs be, and could not be, migh●… signify the impassable godhead of Christ, as Theodoret, and Isychius affirm, since power to take away sin and to cleanse it, without any suffering for it, is proper to God. It might likewise resemble the detestation and hatred the jews had of Christ when they cried, 
y john. 19  away with him, away with him, if the usage of the people towards the Scape-goate were such as Tertullian describeth; which was to spit at him, punch him, and curse him, as he was carried out of the City. And where he went away alive for all their spites and wrongs, that might declare either his resurrection into life eternal which they could not touch, or else the disposition of his life here not left in the people's hands, but reserved to his own power, till he did willingly offer it as a sacrifice unto God. Ambrose saith of him. 
z Ambro. de incarn dom. Sacramento. ca 5.  Quasi arbiter exuendi suscipiendique corporis, emisit spiritum non amisit. As having power in himself to lay aside and to take again his body, he sent forth his soul, he lost it not. And likewise Eusebius. When 
a Eusebius demonst. Euangel. li. 1. ca 8.  no man had power over Christ's soul he himself of his own accord laid it down for man. 
b Ibidem li 3. cap. 6.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. So (loosed from all force) and resting free, himself of himself made the departure from his body. This the Scape-goate I say might figure, as some ancient Fathers avouch, & your reasons to the contrary are but rushes, unfit to conclude such a cause; considering that no figure agreeth in all things with the truth, for than it should be no figure but the truth, and you collect some small disagreements between the figure and the truth..  
Again as you suppose for some petite difference the Scape-goat could not figure the deity, nor body of Christ: so I upon stronger grounds collect, it could not signify the proper sufferings of Christ's soul, & if your word were of any weight, yourself avouch that which I intend. Those 
c Trea. pa. 11. li. 24.  b●…asts sacrifices (say you) could not prefigure the immortal and reasonable soul of Christ] If that be true which is your own averment, how could the Scape-goat which I trow was a beast, as you say a sacrifice, figure the sufferings of Christ's soul, which were inward and invisible, as was his soul? Can you so closely convey contradictions, as in your treatise to tell us the sacrifices of beasts could not prefigure the immortal soul of Christ, and in your defence to assure us it must be ofnecessitie that the Scape-goat signified the human soul of Christ? Besides if the Scape-goat signified Christ's soul sent away from his body, for the other goat was first slain; it must of force import Christ's death; for without death, his soul was not separated from his body. And so by your urging that it could not signify Christ's death, you plainly confirm it did signify Christ's death. Thirdly the place whither the Scape-goat was sent, was the 
d Leuit. 16. vers. 22.  Wilderness and a land unhabitabie. Now the soul of Christ severed from his body, went to heaven as you hold or to Paradise. Is heaven or Paradise with you become a wilderness & a land not inhabited? Fourthly the Scape-goat after he was sent away, did 
e Ibidem.  bear upon him all the sins of the people. Dare you say that Christ's soul departed from his body did bear or suffer the punishment of the people's sins? Your meaning is but to 
f Defenc. pa 40. li. 2.  show what you think to be indeed most probable and likely, knowing that yet some such matter, as you aim at, they do signify without Question.] After it must be of necessity, come you now with probability? and is your doubtless so soon turned into likelihood? The Reader is well holpen up to rest on your word, and to believe SOME SUCH MATTER AS YOU AIM AT. But back to the matter indeed, and then your Reader shall find even by your own confession, besides my proofs, that you do but aim at these things upon the bare surmise of your own brain; and that you can show no sacrifices of the jews which did figure the proper sufferings of Christ's foul; much less the death of his soul which is the matter that we differ about, howsoever you would now lose your neck out of the collar.  
We 
g Defenc. pa. 38 li. 21.  read of other sacrifices consisting of sacrifices of sundry and divers sorts. The bloody sacrifice had conjoined together with it, the unbloody sacrifice of the meat offering, and an 
What salt, flower, ●…le, & wine, added to the jews sacrifices ●…ight signify.  other of the drink offering. Which may very likely represent unto us the sundry and divers kinds of Christ's meritorious sufferings in his life time and at his death.] You conjecture still so far from truth, that few men will regard your conjectural likelihoods. Why Salt, Flower, Oil and Wine, were added to the carnal sacrifices of the jews; much may be guessed, little can be proved. They might well serve to make the sacrifice the sweeter, and the fuller, and so resemble the fragrancy and sufficiency of Christ's death; but what reason you have to make Christ's life to be thought his death; and his merits all one with his sufferings; and things without sense or life to figure the sufferings of his soul, and you know not what besides; I do not see, but only that your will is your best weapon, when you be put to the push of any proof. Yea in the same side where you reject the judgement of Cyrill, Ambrose, and Bede, as 
h Pag. 38.  wide conjectures and palpable mistake, you come in with your foolish supposals, and offer them to all the godly as matters of good moment, only because you fancy them. But mock not your Reader with may, and must as you think; your thoughts must be wiser and nearer the truth before a mean man will regard them.  

i Pag. 38. li. vl.  Who but I (you say) would defend these palpable mistake of the ancients, and not see the 
k Pag. 39 li. 1.  express text against them?] Nay who but you would so peremptorily trample upon the credits of such men, with a proud presumption of the text before you did better examine it? Is it so repugnant to the Scriptures as you pretend, to say the wicked are a Redemption or propitiation for the godly, which in Moses the Scape-goate is said to be for the people? Solomon saith, 
l Pro. 21. v. 1●….  COPHER LAZADDIC RASHAA a Redemption for the just (shall) the wicked (be,) and the transgressor for the righteous. Where not only the same sense, but the same word is found which Moses useth, when he saith, the Scape-goate shall be 
m Leuit. 16.  presented alive before the Lord LECAPPE●… 
vers. ●…0.  AALAV, to make (Redemption or reconciliation) by him. So God by Esay said, 
n Esa 43. v. 30.  I gave Egypt CAPHRECA to be thy Redemption; that is to be plagued for thee, that thou mightest scape. And so God often layeth the burden on the wicked, that should fall on the righteous, and excuseth the one by the punishment of the other, as he did typically on the Scape-goate & truly on Christ for all the sins of the people. Wherefore it was no such oversight in Cyrill, Ambroses and B●…de to resemble the Scape-goate to the wicked, when they are punished to spa●… the godly as you would make it, their conjectures are far more considerate than yours; the Saviour of the world was 
o Mark. 15.  counted among the wicked, and used in show as the wicked are, when he bore our sins in his body, and took our burden on him. That which M●…nster reporteth out of all the Rabines, and especially out of Rabi Salome: Kimchi, and Aben Ezra, that the Scape-goate was 
p Munst. Annotat. in Levitic. ca 16.  sent to a strong hill in the desert, and there torn in pieces before he could touch the middle of the hill; I leave to each man's liking, because the Scripture noteth no such thing; Howbeit Tertullian saith, 
q Tertull. contra Marcio. li. 3.  extra civitatem abijciebatur in perditionem, the Scape-goate was cast out of the City into perdition; And justine Martyr in his Dialogue with Triphon the jew, saith, the Priests and Elders sent Christ away as the Scape-goate, laying their hands on him, and doing him to death.  
The 
r Defenc. pa. 40. li. 8.  very like are your three reasons brought to show that the Holocaust can not signify the sufferings of whole Christ, and therefore not of his soul any way.] Whether the Holocaust 
What the Holocaust did signify.  were a figure of Christ's sacrifice, or did represent the joint sufferings of the whole manhood of Christ, neither of these is in question betwixt us. You took upon you to show, that the jews by their sacrifices were directed to believe the suffering of that which you call hell pains in the soul of Christ, when he offered himself for our sins. That was the point which I denied. The shedding of Christ's blood unto death, the Apostle in the ninth and tenth Chapters to the Hebrews, doth plainly deduce from those bloody sacrifices of the jews; other sufferings of Christ from their sacrifices he doth not derive. The Holocaust, you replied, was 
s Trea. pa. 13. li. 18.  every whit chopped in pieces, and altogether put into the fire and burnt. I answered this was done after the death of the sacrifice, whose dead body was wholly consumed to ashes with one and the self same sire; and therefore this could not be referred to the proper sufferings of Christ's soul; which could not suffer any thing after the death of the body, much less be wholly consumed with any sufferings common to the body, since the body of Christ itself neither was, nor could be consumed with any corruption or affliction. Besides that you yourself in the leaf before made a plain resolution, that those 
t Trea. pa. 11. li. 24.  Sacrifices of beasts, could not prefigure the immortal and reasonable soul of Christ. How then could the dead bodies of those beasts cut in pieces and quite consumed with fire, represent the inward and proper sufferings of the soul?  
Is there 
u deafen. pa. 40. li. 13.  any Similitude concurring in all points and circumstances with the thing signified?] If it did, it were the truth itself, and not a figure thereof. And therefore all your illations that the Scape-goate, which in some things disagreed from the Deity and body of Christ, could signify neither, were vain and idle. It sufficeth in figures warranted by the word of God, that one principal action or circumstance be common to both, in how many things so ever they be otherwise different. But where is your warrant in the Scriptures, that the burning of sacrifices when they were dead, signified the sufferings of Christ's soul? Show that, and then we will soon dispense with the rest of your rules and my reasons also. Figures expressed in the word of God had no doubt their similitude to the truth, though we perhaps see it not; and if any one point of resemblance be ratified by God's authority, that may and must content us. But will you of your own head make figures to fit your fancies, and then claim the same prerogative, which God himself hath? What if many figures in the Law had as great disparagement as you call it, To the things signified, as the burning of the Holocaust to the sufferings of Christ's soul? Is that a precedent for you to devise and establish what figures please you, and thence to raise platforms for strange and new doctrine?  
The 
x Defence pa. 40. li. 20.  bodies of beasts first sl●…ine were after carried out of the host. Now these signified Christ's going out of jerusalem to be slain, but being yet alive. The burning of the beasts after they were dead, was a sacrifice of a sweet savour unto God, which in truth is Christ's very death, and nothing done by him afterward, whereby God's anger is fully pacified toward us.] In figurative and bloody sacrifices could you distinguish the suffering, which was proper to the living creature that was offered, from the offering which was peculiar to the Priest, and from the accepting which belonged only unto God, you would not thus jumble them together both in the figures signifying, and in the thing signified. That the blood of the carnal sacrifices slain under the Law, did foreshow the bloodshedding and death of Christ jesus for the sins of the world, the Apostle to the Hebrews is very plain, not only calling him amongst other things 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 
y Hebr. 10.  The shadow of good things to come, and 
z Heb. 9  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a similitude for the time present, but also making divers comparisons betwixt them and the blood of Christ, and proving by the first testament that the second must be ratified with blood and death. By which as by figures were sufficiently testified, the joint sufferings of the whole manhood of Christ even unto death. For the powers of ●…ife and sense in those creatures that had their blood shed untodeath, naturally feeling and showing in their kind the pains and terror of death, were fi●…test to witness to all the beholders that the violent and bloody death of the Messias, which he would undertake for the ransom of their sins, should be grievous and painful even to his soul. And that being made so manifest to all men's eyes by the death of the living sacrifices, what needed the burning of the same after it was dead and senseless, obscurely to intimate if not falsely, that the fire of affliction as you would have it, should consume the Messias? God had therefore another meaning, as I take it, in commanding each sacrifice after it was slain, to be offered to him by fire. Forwhere of all creatures subject to man's sight and sense, fire was the fittest for the light, heat, force, and motion thereof to design unto the people, the brightness of God's glory, the zeal of his holiness the grace of his Spirit, and seat of his habitation in the heavens; God gave the jews fire from heaven to burn perpetually on his Altar; which did teach them with what cleanness of hands and ferventness of heart, the things which he required, should be offered unto him; and did separate the sacrifices dedicated unto God from all profane abuse and human use; and made them ascend towards the place of his glorious presence, that he might accept them with favour, and be pleased with them. All which significations of heavenly fire were most perfectly accomplished in the sacrifice of Christ jesus. For never man nor Angel offered unto God any service with like purity and charity, as the Lord jesus offered himself to his Father's will; and that his oblation did not only cleanse his body from all corruption of mortality and infirmity, as appeared by his resurrection; but pierced the heavens with admirable celerity and efficacy, and prevailed in the presence of God to be a sweet smelling savour for all the sons of God.  
Some of these things you seem to acknowledge, As fire to signify the 
a deafen. pa. 42. li. 8.  Acceptation of Christ's death, in that it was a sacrifice of a sweet savour ascending up to God. What 
What fire did signify in sacrifices.  reason then have you that fire should note the wrath of God powered out on Christ's soul and body before he died? Shall one and the same fire in one and the same sacrifice import both gracious acceptance with God, and terrible vengeance from God? These be contraries in mine eyes, whatsoever they be in yours. That fire in sacrifices did show God's favour and not his anger, the sacrifices of 
b judges 6.  Gedeon, 
c 2. Chron. 7.  Solomon, and 
d 2. Kings 18.  Elias, do plainly prove, which God with fire from heaven consumed, not in token of any displeasure against them, or dislike of their offerings, but in sign of very favourable acceptations both of their persons and sacrifices. Even so at the first offerings of Aaron 
e Leuit. 9  the glory of the Lord appeared to all the people and there came a fire from the Lord, and consumed the burnt offering upon the Altar; which when all the people saw, they gave a shout for joy and fell on their faces. This fire descending from God and consuming that sacrifice, God commanded to keep 
f Leuit. 6. vers. 12. 13.  burning for ever on his Altar, and none might approach to him with any other fire in incense or offering: in so much that when Nadab and Abihu the sons of Aaron took strange ●…ire to offer before the Lord, and not of that which always burned on the Altar, God 
g Leuit. 10.  destroyed them with fire. The fire than which consumed the sacrifices of the jews was miraculously delivered them by God, and joyfully received of all the people, and therefore did not argue to them any wrath or vengeance on their sacrifices, but rather the favour and good liking of God, which the Scripture noteth by the sweet odour of the sacrifice. As when Noah made his 
h Genes. 8.  burnt offerings to ascend (by fire) the Scripture saith, the Lord smelled a savour of rest, that is, he showed himself to be appeased, and his anger to rest. So when Aaron and his sons were to be consecrated Priests, God said to Moses, 
i Exod 29.  Thou shalt make to smell, (by fire) (that is, thou shalt burn) the whole Ram, as a burnt offering; it shall be to the Lord a savour of rest: that is a pleasing sacrifice. And for that cause God willed the jews in their peace offerings, whereby they gave thanks for their safety and prosperity, to use fire; and saith of it, 
k Leuit. 3. v. 5.  ISSHE, this burning by fire, (or this sacrifice made by fire) is a savour of rest unto the Lord. And so in incense, which Saint john resembleth to the 
l revel. 8.  prayers of the Saints, fire was likewise required, to teach them, that their prayers went up before God as the smoke of sweet odours, and were accepted of him. Than not affliction or indignation on the Sacrifice was declared by the fire which God commanded to be used in all kinds of sacrifices, but rather an ascending up to the presence of God, and an accepting thereof in the sight of God, which is far from your suffering of hell pains in the soul of Christ, for which you babble so much in both your books.  
But the Apostle saith, as the bodies of beasts were burnt without the camp, so Christ 
Christ's suffering without the gate of the City.  suffered without the gate.] Were it granted, that fire in Sacrifices did signify probation or affliction, which is no way proved; you are no whit the nearer to your suffering of hell pains in the soul of Christ. For the bodies of beasts, saith the Apostle, were burnt, which can by no pretence of these words be stretched farther than the afflictions of Christ's body, when he was carried to be crucified without the gate. And the chopping of the holocaust in pieces, that it might the more conveniently be laid on the wood to burn, maketh as slender proof, that Christ's soul suffered the pains of hell, notwithstanding your grave device, that Christ's soul was chopped in pieces, and not his body; which conceits of yours, declare your folly, but help not your cause. Those Sacrifices whereof part was burnt by fire, and the rest reserved for the Priest, and sometimes for the owner that brought them to feast before the Lord, had their blood shed at the door of the Tabernacle as well as the other, and so resembled the death of Christ no less than the other, though God would have no part of the one to be eaten by the Priests or people, as the other were, but to be wholly consumed by fire, because they were wholly reserved or dedicated unto him. And this the Apostle respecteth in that comparison which he maketh of the bodies of beasts burnt without the camp, whereof the Priests that served in the Tabernacle could not be partakers. They were consumed by fire, because the Priests should not eat thereof; to foreshow, as the Apostle noteth, that such as were addicted to the service and ceremonies of the Law and the outward Temple, could not be partakers of the truth, which is in Christ, except they did leave those elements of the Law, which seemed so glorious in their eyes; and followed Christ out of the gate, bearing his reproach; whose blood was most holy and most sufficient to sanctify the people, though he were cast out of the city to suffer as a malefactor and wicked person. Neither were the dead bodies of those beasts consumed by fire out of the camp, to make them sacrifices unto God; for than must they have been burnt on the Altar, which was at the door of the Tabernacle of the Congregation within the city, as the holocausts were; but after they were slain before the door of that Tabernacle, and their blood brought and sprinkled on the horns of the Altar of incense, and before the vail of the Sanctuary, and their fat burned on the Altar of burnt offerings in the Court; then was the rest carried out of the camp to be consumed with fire, that no man might eat thereof. The place whither, and the purpose why the dead bodies of those beasts were carried forth from the use of the Priests, are touched by the Apostle in the thirteenth to the Hebrues; but the manner of burning them after their blood was sprinkled, and their fat offered unto God upon his Altar by sacred fire, he no way compareth with the sufferings of Christ's body, much less of his soul, neither of which was consumed in Christ's passion without the gate as their bodies were by fire without the camp. For the fire of probation and affliction by the witness of holy Scripture, consumeth only the wicked; which are as dross and 
m Esa. 5. v. 24. Nah. 1. v. 10. 1. Co●…inth. 3.  stubble before it; it consumeth not the godly, but cleanseth them, and maketh them pure as 
n Pro. 17. v. 3. Sap. 6. v. 3. Eccles. 2. v. 5.  gold tried in the furnace, yea 
o 1. Pet. 1.  much more precious than gold tried with fire.  
So that my first and second exceptions stand good for ought you have proved to the contrary. No Scripture doth warrant, that fire in Sacrifices did signify the torments of Christ's body, much less the proper sufferings of Christ's soul, least of all the pains of the damned; but rather, as I have showed, the perfection and purity of Christ's sacrifice before God, and the acceptation thereof with God; which are things far distant from your device. As also that Christ's body or soul were wholly consumed by any affliction when he suffered for our sins; this hath neither ground in the word of God, nor truth in itself. Which reason you cunningly skip, and say, my 
p Def. pag. 41.  second exception is also nothing. What mine exceptions were, my words are plain. 
q Conclus. pa. 236. li 30.  Why the burning of the holocaust should signify Christ's affliction on the cross either in body or in soul, I see no proof made by this Confuter; and why they should not resemble Christ's afflictions before death, these two reasons move me: First it was burnt after it was dead; next it was wholly consumed by fire: neither of which can accord with Christ's sufferings on the cross. This was, as all men may see, my second exception, and not that which you subject in place thereof. That indeed showeth how carelessly you concluded against yourself. For where you make such a stir for the PROPER sufferings of the soul of Christ, when you come to exemplify them but in a figure, you bring the burning of the body of the holocaust, which either wholly excludeth the sufferings of the soul, or admitteth none but those that were also common to the body of Christ, and so your PROPER sufferings of Christ's soul are clean without your own example. But now you amend the matter, and plainly affirm, that 
r Defenc. pag. 40. li. 37.  one and the same torment afflicted Christ's whole manhood by sympathy.] Look better to your words, Sir Trifler, another time. If it were common to the body, how was it proper to the soul? If it were proper to the soul, how was it common to the body?  
You have shifts enough to save all this: for 
s Defenc. pa. 42. li. 1.  according to the proportion of the holocaust, so WHOLE Christ, you say, and then his very soul CHIEFLY was AS IT WERE chopped into pieces, and AS IT WERE quite consumed in his fiery sorrows.] A learned & 
The Defenders ●…aine shifts.  witty answer very like, as it were, to yourself. To prove the proper sufferings of the soul, you proportion out the sufferings of the whole man, which are common to body and soul; and these because they are chiefly in the soul, you make proper unto the soul. By that reason all the sufferings of the body are proper likewise to the soul; because the sense of them is chiefly, if not only in the soul. But what will you not say, that speaking both monstrously and falsely in your fiery humour, salve it all with as it were? The soul of Christ, you say, was AS IT WERE chopped in pieces, and as it were quite consumed; and so in effect, when your words, which should be proper and positive in points of faith, are absurd and senseless, you imagine they may be as it were like to be true. Did you profess to speak figuratively and not properly, as in positions of Religion you ought to do, many phrases might be borne withal which otherwise are intolerable: but when your assertions are out of all square and truth; then to qualify them with as it were (which is a shift, though very shameful, throughout your book in the greatest matters in question) and still to defend them as principles of Christian religion; this is fit for no man but for him that maketh a Maygame of p●…etie to support the madness of his fancy.  
With like learning you cure the contrariety that you readily ran into, whiles over eagerly you pursued your own purposes forgetting what fell from you in other places. For where in your Treatise for an advantage you said, 
t Trea. pa. 11.  those sacrifices (of beasts) could not prefigure the immortal and reasonable soul of Christ; and in your Defence you resolutely infer, 
u Defenc. pa. 39 li. 11.  It must then be of necessity (I think) the human soul of Christ, which the Scape-goat signified, which was a true sin-offering: This you can FULL EASILY reconcile, and that without trifling. In the former place you meant generally and for the most part, but not always, nor altogether: Again, the Scape-goat and the holocaust do not, in respect as they are bodily things, represent the soul of Christ or any matter pertaining to it; but the particular usage and manner of action about them, doth lively represent the sufferings of Christ's soul.] This indeed is not trifling, but plain tumbling in the mire. Your words were: those sacrifices (of beasts) could not prefigure the immortal and reasonable soul of Christ. Your new correction is now, you meant they did not ALW AIHS nor ALTOGETHER represent mere bodily sufferings. What is your new addition but a clear confession, that your former words were false? For if those sacrificcs did not always nor altogether represent Christ's bodily sufferings, than sometimes they prefigured the sufferings of his soul. But you said, they were 
x Trea. pa. 11. li. 9 & 12.  ALTOGETHER UNFIT for those inward and invisible things, NEITHER HAD THEY ANY RESEMBLANCE TOGETHER. Altogether unfit, and not altogether unfit to represent the sufferings of the souls; as also not any resemblance and some resemblance are contradictions in our country, whatsoever they be in yours.  
But since you can not always nor altogether hit the truth, you will now go to it with respects. The Scape-goat and the holocaust, you say, do not in that respect as they are bodily things, represent the soul of Christ, or any matter pertaining to it.] In that respect as they are bodily things without any sacred action or passion, they figure neither body nor soul of Christ, nor are indeed any figures at all. But you speak of sacrifices of beasts, which can not bear that name in the Scriptures without some sacred action and passion ordained by God to praefigure the sacrifice of his Son. And where every thing which was appointed of God to foreshow the coming and dying of his Son, was a figure of him, not in respect of any bodily matter or form, (for so all things of that kind should naturally have been figures of Christ, and not by gods appointment, which is most absurd and false:) but in regard of some holy, rare, or beneficial action, passion, or property authorized by God to represent the power and virtue of Christ appearing in our flesh; you like a deep Divine sever from those sacrifices all sacred actions and passions ordained by God, to make them both sacrifices and figures, and then tell us that in respect of their earthly and bodily substance they were no figures of Christ's soul. When you said Sacrifices, you included those sacred actions and passions, which made them sacrifices and figures of Christ's sacrifice; and therefore to exclude them again with an idle respect, is a silly and empty refuge. If under bodily things you comprise external and sensible actions and passions; then is it evident, that by sensible signs in those Sacrifices God did always and altogether declare the joint sufferings of Christ for the sins of the world, but not the pains of hell nor the death of the soul, from which you always and altogether slide, under pretence of my gross uttering it, though I utter it in the selfsame words and parts which the Scripture doth. But how considerate are you, when you vouch, that the 
y Trea. pa. 41.  Scape-goat representeth not Christ's soul, unless only in respect of the escaping of it, when the other goat died; & yet not the body of the holocaust, but the utter consuming by sire of the whole, signifieth the sufferings of whole Christ? What agreement hath ESCAPING with UTTER CONSUMING? and yet you make both these actions to be figures of the sufferings of Christ's soul. So that Christ's soul by your refined figures did escape free from death, and not escape free from death (for you defend that Christ died the death of the soul) and was utterly consumed, and could not be consumed; but as it were escaped, and yet escaped not, and was at it were utterly consumed, and yet could no way be consumed, but escaped free and untouched as the Scape-goat did. Such is your settledness, that yea and no, with you, are as it were all one.  
That fire did signify the 
z Defenc. pag. 42. li 9  incorruption of Christ's flesh after death, is very hard and far fetched. Sacrifices had their respect to Christ's death, not to any thing further or afterwards.] All things are far fetched with you, that come not from the whirlpool of your own head. It is the judgement of S. Austen and other learned Fathers, which you so lightly esteem. 
a Aug. contra ●…aust. Man●…. li. 22. ca 17.  The same substance of the body shall be changed into an heavenly quality; quod ignis in sacrificio significabat, velut absorbens mortem in victoriam; which fire in sacrifice signified, as it were swallowing up death in victory. Whom Bede disdaineth not to follow. 
b ●…eda. qu●…st. super Leuit. cap. 3.  Ignis in sacrificio id significabat, velut absorbens mortem in victoriam. Fire in sacrifice did signify victory even swallowing up death. Cyril is of the same mind. 
c Cyrillin Leuit. li. 1.  Agreeably (to the sacrifices) did heavenly fire consume all things that were done by our Saviour in the body, and restored them all nearer to the nature of his Divinity: for rising from the dead, he ascended to heaven: his passage to which place the nature of fire doth show. To farther sufferings after Christ's death no sacrifice had respect, because there neither were any, nor needed any; but to the efficacy and glory consequent to Christ's death, the fire in sacrifices had respect, as these Fathers affirm. Against whom though you every where oppose the wormeaten warrant of your own words, I trust you will somewhat relent to the Apostles authority; who telleth you, that the 
d Hebr. 9 v. 7.  high Priests going int●… the most holy place with the blood of the sacrifice once every year, signified Christ's 
e Vers. 8. 12. 24.  entering the heavens with his own blood; which I hope was after both his death and his resurrection.  
As for an 
f Defenc. pag. 42. li. 12.  other sense out of Austen, that it should signify our perfection and burning charity, it can not be true: for the holocaust-sacrifice out of question primarily signified the person of Christ, not ours. Also you both here do seem to double, understanding by the holocaust both incorruption after death, and a perfect burning love in us now in this life; which things are far distant, and can not stand together.] You are so giddy, that you dislike every thing; and so hasty, that you conceive nothing right. S. Austen saith indeed that fire in the holocaust may note the fervent ●…esse of charity, and brightness of immortality, which are all one with perfection and incorruption. What fault find you with this? The holocaust, you say, signified primarily the person of Christ, not ours. Doth S. Austen deny that? It suff●…ceth for the truth of his words, that those sacrifices did principally point out Christ's sufferings, grace, and glory; and consequently ours. For as we have 
g Phil. 3.  fellowship with his afflictions, and are conformed unto his death; so shall we be partakers of his perfection and incorruption, and be 
h Rom. 8.  fashioned to (his) image. 
h Rom. 8.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; If we suffer as he did (saith Paul) that we may be glorified as he was; not presuming an equality with him, but promising a conformity to him. The Sacrifices then which (as you grant) primarily signified the person, passion and perfection of Christ, did secondly note and teach our dying to sin, our rising again in glory and appearing before him in perfect holiness; which in this life we endeavour but can not attain to the full, till by death we be freed from sin. The bearing of Christ's Image is enough to justify Saint Austin's speech. For he neither saith, that the holocaust did primarily signify the members of Christ, nor that men could have perfection of charity in this life: but when Christ shall present us righteous and glorious unto his Father, then shall he offer us as holocausts unto God. And yet in the mean while what hindereth Saint Austen to exhort us, that the Divine fire of God's wisdom and grace may wholly inflame us, and even consume us? Who but a moth of your mould would give Saint Austen the l●…e twice in two lines for so speaking, and in the third line after charge him with doubling, as if Christ's purity in this life and glory after this life could not stand together? or the perfection of God's Saints here (such as it is, which the Scripture so 
i Mat. 5. v. 48. Col 4. v 12. I●…m. 1. v. 4.  calleth) were not coherent with that incorruption, which they shall have there? The one is not the other, but the one is so consequent to the other, that without holiness in earth no man shall ever enjoy happiness in heaven. And to both doth the imitation of Christ, and signification of fire in the holocaust direct us.  
Coming to the next reason you 
k Defenc. pag. 42.  reproved me for saying, Sacraments are earthly Elements, they can not set out the spiritual and ●…uisible effects in Christ] There was just cause I should tell you, that this your asse●…tion did mainly cross the very nature and definition of a Sacrament. For Sacraments are visible signs of invisible graces; that is, of the spiritual effects of Christ's power and grace abiding in him, and yet working in us. Wherein did I wrong you? you meant they 
l Defenc. pag. 43. li. 1.  usually represent not spiritual and in●…sible effects or acts in Christ himself, but only the external and visible parts of his passion.] The two Sacraments of the new Testament, Baptism and the Lords Supper; do they represent only the external and visible parts of Christ's passion? Doth Baptism show no more in Christ, but that actual and substantial water ran out of his side after he was dead? Is this the whole signification and rep●…esentation that baptism offereth unto us? Surely you must leave Catechising and learn to be catechised; if this be all your skill in Sacraments. The bread and wine on the Lord's table, besides the reference which they have to the body of Christ broken and his blood shed, do they not plainly show the flesh of Christ is meat, and his blood drink nourishing our souls to everlasting life, as the elements support and maintain the life of the body? Water in Baptism doth it not declare the power of Christ's death washing our souls, and of his spirit renewing our minds? These you say are 
m Defenc. pag. 42. li. 37.  spiritual effects wrought in us not in Christ. Power to cleanse, quicken, nourish, and strengthen to eternal life, is that Christ's or ours? We indeed are the persons that are cleansed, quickened, nourished and strengthened; but the force and grace working these things in us, is Christ's and not ours. We receive it as flowing from the fountain, but it naturally springeth in him, and from thence is derived to us. The Sacraments than teach us, that the fullness of power and grace dwelleth in Christ really and truly; which he is content shall work in us, but never leave him. The water washing, the bread nourishing, the wine comforting, note no power in us to do any of these things; it is evident impiety so to think or say; only they assure us, that as Christ the true owner of all these things, by his obedience unto death, was made the only disposer of them; so he will perform the covenant with us, which the Sacraments do seal unto us; and that is the covenant of mercy and grace in this life, and of glory in the next; which the Sacraments could not seal, except they did signify those gifts and effects to be actively and originally in the giver; as they are passively in the Receivers.  

n Defenc. pag. 42. li. 38.  VSVALLY Sacraments do not represent spiritual effects or acts in Christ] When text and truth fail you, your fashion is to fly to phrases; and so still to say 
Sacraments do constantly and continually signify and represent the same.  somewhat, though it want both learning and understanding. For example, Sacraments (you say) do not VSVALLY represent spiritual effects or acts in Christ. Did you speak of nature, which often faileth; or of men, who change their minds, usual and unusual might serve for some purpose; but what is this to Sacraments? they constantly and continually keep the same order in their significations and representations; so that usual and unusual in them are all one. The nature of the Element is still the same; the action prescribed may not be varied; the promise annexed never faileth on God's part. So that what any Sacrament once resembleth or signifieth, it always expresseth and observeth the same. Will you divert your words to divers Sacraments, and make that usual to one, which is unusual to another? This which you usually exclude from Sacraments, is common to both the Sacraments of the New Testament of which we reason; and being common to them both, as I have showed, to signify spiritual effects or acts in Christ himself, with what truth say you now, THEY do it not usually, speaking of both; whereas both do it apparently and perpetually?  
It is 
o Defenc. pa. 42. li. 29.  yourself indeed that denieth the very definition of a Sacrament: for your main assertion is that neither the jewish sacrifices, nor Christian Sacraments, do signify any more than the bodily and blo●…dy death of Christ, which I hope was a visible, and no ●…uisible thing.] Your Reader will shortly take you so often tardy with foule-lies, that he will scant believe you, when you speak a truth. Is it any position of mine that the jewish sacrifices, and Christian Sacraments do not signify any more than the bodily and bloody death of Christ? Indeed I af●…irmed they signified none other death of Christ, but only that which was bodily and bloody, which I g●…ant was visible; but as for other effects of Christ's power & grace, by which we are 
p Serm. pa. 63. li. 22.  grafted into Christ, and quick●…ed and nourished unto life everlasting, Ireferred them to the Sacraments of the new Testament as unto Seals confirming the covenant of mercy, grace, and glory made to us by the death of Christ, in the same words that I now speak it. And so conclude of them, as I do now; 
q Ibid. li. 23.  These propose unto us no invisible pains of hell, but the body of Christ wounded, and his blood shed for the remitting of our sins, and uniting us unto Christ. Therefore your turning no invisible pains of hell, which are my words, into no more than a bodily death, which are yours; and under pretence of those words, excluding from the Sacraments all other significations and representations of Christ's invisible power and grace proposed by them, showeth your accustomed vain of misconstering and altering my words, when you cannot otherwise impugn them.  
You 
r Defenc. pa. 43. li. 3.  make me to cross the institution of the Lords table, because I said the Ceremony of breaking the bread, cannot properly belong to Christ's body. But even here do I not expressly say, that it showeth forth how Christ's body was broken for us?] Where by Christ's institution the bread was BROKEN, to note unto us the breaking of his body for our sins; and Paul expresseth that similitude of the bread broken to Christ's body, in saying, 
s 1. Cor. 10.  The bread, which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ; and to verify that resemblance, reporteth the words of Christ's institution in effect to be these, This is my body which is broken for you: you to make a siely show that the Sacraments declare 
t 1. Cor. 11.  Christ's suffering of Hell pains, avouch that the. 
u Trea pa. 14. li. 12.  breaking of the bread cannot properly belong to the body, but to the soul, and to the body by Sympathy with the soul. Wherein you first deny the Similitude betwixt the bread and the body of Christ, to be true in deeds but only in words; because you do not acknowledge the violence offered to Christ's body by his persecutors, to be any kind of breaking properly and truly. For howsoever with big words you talk of the anguish of Christ's soul bruising his 
x Defenc. pa. 21. li. 4.  body jointly also; yet when you come to express your self plainly, you say, 
y Trea. pa. 5. li. 27.  This grievous passion was in his soul immediately and properly, seeing then his body was not touched with any smart. And since all sense of pain is in the soul; if by breaking you understand not the violence offered to Christ's body, in vain come you in with your Sympathy, which may show itself in the body, but not be felt of the body, by reason the powers of sense are in the soul; and so you control the Apostles words as void of all truth, whiles you refer them truly and properly to the soul, and not to the body but only by Sympathy.  
The grounds, whereon you deny this Analogy betwixt the bread and the body of Christ, are as absurd and false, as the Conclusion, which you build on them; and are in number four. 1. That Klômenon (in Greek) is BROKEN TO PIECES properly. 
z Defenc. pa. 43.  2. That MEDUCCA in the Prophet (Esay) is also broken to pieces, properly, or crushed and beaten to POWDER. 3. That Christ's body was not properly broken. 4. That the breaking of the bread into many pieces, doth first and immediately set out the breaking of his soul. In all which you violently follow your own fancies, as your manner is, against all divine and human testimony. For first 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not by his proper signification import that only, which is broken in pieces, as you mean pieces wholly parted the one from the other. Look back to your Lexicons, to which you appeal, and namely to that of Budaeus, Tusanus, and Constantinus which Crispin Printed, Anno Domini 1562. or to that which was a fresh Corrected and enlarged by G●…snerus, junius, Xylander, Cellarius, Honygerus and others, and Printed at Basill 1584. and see whether Klân whence Klômenon cometh, be not there expressed by frango, flecto and luxo, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; which are to break, bow, unjoint, bruise, or cut. And though Robert Steven in his Thesaurus, set down none other signification to the verb Klân, but frango to break; yet he doth not thereby mean only breaking of bones, or making of pieces as you full wisely intend; but to break generally, whatsoever or howsoever. And so Klân is to break the straightness of any thing by wrying or bowing it, and the coherence of any thing by straining, tearing or cutting it, and the roundness or fullness of any thing by bruising it. Aristotle in his Problems saith, that as we climb up the hill 
a Arist proble. sectio. 5. numero. 19  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the knees are bend (or strained) backward; as we go down the hill, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the thighs are bend (or strained) forward: as also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with Hypocrates is the straining of a joint, where he saith; that in holding the hand forth right, 
b Hippocr. li. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the bowing of the joint (at elbow) is strained. For so doth Galen expound him; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The offer to stretch out the 
c Galenus in ●…undem librum.  arm directly straineth the joint at elbow, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to the out side. And Lucian describing the gesture of a Tragical person, saith; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Bowing and straining himself. In all which Klàn doth not import any breaking of bones nor making of any pe●…ces, but the straining of the joints, by which the body or the parts thereof may be bowed.  
He ●…ychius saith klân is likewise to cut, expressing it by 
d Hesychij I exicon in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to cut vines, which Theophrastus calleth 
e Theophrasius de causis ●…lantarun. lib. 3. cap. 19  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the cutting of vines, with whom Suidas, Phavorinus, & the Greek 
f In verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  Scholiast upon Aristophanes agree, deriving the metaphorical signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, from cutting the tender branches (of vines, and other trees) which are properly called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, because they will turn and bow every way; and the hook that serveth to cut them, is named 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Yea the very breaking of bread in Christ's institution, (to which the Apostle resembleth the violence offered to Christ's body) the Greek church never so understood, that 
g Aristopha. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  it was not or might not be done with knives. For besides that the ancient liturgy under the name of chrysostom, mentioneth a sacred knife in form of a lance, wherewith the bread was cut, which is there expressed by 
h Chrysostomi Leirurgia Graecè.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; Germanus Bishop of Constantinople reporting the use of the Greek Church in his time continued fro former ages, saith, the Lords body 
i Germani historis Ecclesiastica.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is cut with a knife, which they call a lance, out of the bread; and though that be divided, yet Christ remaineth whole and unparted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in every piece of the bread so cut.  
That klân is also used to signify the tearing or bruising of fleshy parts, where no bones at all are broken, Hypocrates the father of all learned Physic, speaking in his own Art most skilfully and truly, doth clearly witness: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: 
k Hypocrates 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. li. 3. ad finem.  Less dangerous are any of the bones broken, than where the bones are not broken, but the veins and sinews adjoining are on every side bruised. If the veins and sinews of man's body are properly said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, when they are bruised or torn with any violence; the flesh of man, which is full of veins and sinew●…s to bring blood and sense to every part of the body, can not be bruised with staves, or torn with whips and thorns as Christ's was, but those veins and sinews spreading themselves throughout the flesh, must likewise be bruised and broken, which Hypocrates calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, though the danger be the less, because the veins and sinews serving to that use, the more outward they come, the smaller they are. And lest you should still dream as you do, that there is no breaking of any thing in man's body but of bones, and that when the pieces be wholly severed one from the other; Galen, a man past exception in his faculty, telleth you, that in violent hurts of the hands or feet, by leaping, falling or straming, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the knitting of the bones 
l Galenus in 2. lib. Hippocra. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  rather breaketh than the bones themselves. Where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put to signify the losing and tearing of the joints when the bones are not broken, which Galene avoucheth is the properest word that the Greek tongue hath for breaking of bones, and used almost of every man that is acquainted with the Greek tongue. Of breaking 
m Galenu●… de ●…eth. medendi lib. 6.  he likewise saith: 
n Galenus in 2. lib. Hippocra. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a part (may be) broken, the rest being yet coherent. Even as Hypocrates said before him: 
o Hypocrates in 2 lib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: when the lower jaw is broken, if it be not clean forced a sunder, but that the bone is in some part coherent. By which it is evident that as well joints as bones may be BROKEN, and that either in part or in whole.  
Klan then, whence klômenon is derived, importeth not necessarily the breaking of bones in man's body, as by your new Divinity you have lately devised, to make way for your hell pains in the soul of Christ; but it signifieth generally to break, as our English word doth, and frango with the Latins likewise; whether it be by bowing or straining that which is strait; by losing that which is fast; by bruising that which is sound; or by cutting and severing in part or in whole that which is coherent. And so much our English word BROKEN expresseth. We say the neck or back is broken, when neither bone nor skin is broken, but the fastening of the joints is loosed. Likewise the head the face, the shins are broken, when the skin or flesh of these parts is by some violence razed or torn. Yea the veins are broken with a rupture, and children are broken out when their flesh doth exulcerate. And since the dividing of that which was coherent, (which the Physicians call 
p Galenus de Methodo medendi li. 6.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the solution of unity or continuity,) whether it be straining, cutting, razing, tearing, or bruising the bones or flesh of man's body in part or in whole, is contained in the English word breaking, and in the Greek word Klômenon; the Apostle spoke properly enough when he said that Christ's body was broken, for so much as all the joints of it were loosed in sunder, the veins and sinews tornc with piercing and grating of Iron spikes, 
q Psal. 22. vers. 15.  the flesh and the skin cut and rend with thorns, whips, and spear, and bruised with staves; though the bones were not broken, which is your ignorant exception against the Apostles words.  
But MEDUCCA in the Prophet is broken in pieces properly, or crushed and broken to 
r Defenc. pa. 43 li. 15.  powder; as these Scriptures do use the word likewise, and all Lexicons do confirm.] Your resolutions are so rash, that no man will trust your report for the proper signification of words. DACHA indeed is properly to bruise whether it be with hand or foot, but not to pieces nor to powder, without some other word added to express so much. For your Lexicons, to which you so confidently appeal, consult that of Pagnine perused and augmented by Mercere, Cevattere, and Bertrame, and Printed at Lions in France Anno 1575. or forster's Printed at Basile Anno 1564. and see whether they do not plainly reprove your folly. 
s Forsteri Dictionarium H●…braicum in themate Dacha. 2●…8.  Forstere expresseth the theme, whence MEDUCCA cometh, by oppressione seu depressione contusus est, to be bruised by oppression or depression; neither doth he so much as mention the signification of frangere to break in all the examples of that theme. 
t Pagnini thesaurus linguae sanctae.  Pagnine declareth the force of that theme by conterere, frangere, contundere, to beat, break, or bruise, but Mercere addeth as Forstere did, oppressione vel depressione, by oppressing and depressing. And against your beating to powder, Pagnine taketh special exception out of the Rabbins in the very same place of Numbers, whence you would infer it. For upon the words Numbers 11. verse 8. the people gathered Manna, and BEAT IT in mortars, and made cakes 
u Num. 11. v 8.  of it. He saith, differt a SHACHAK secundum Hebreorum Doctores, quod SHACHAK 
x Pag●…. in themate Doc. pag. 457.  est minutatim contundere & terere. The word here used differreth from SHACHAK according to the opinion of the Hebrew Doctors, because SHACHAK signifieth to beat a thing small or to powder, which cosequently this doth not. And though they had dissembled so much, yet the Scripture itself doth convince, that your observation out of that place, as out of all the rest which you quote for that word is stark false. For Manna by the description of Moses, was a small round thing, 
y E●…od. 16. ve●…. ●…4.  small as the door frost on the earth, and 
z Num. 11. vers. 9  fell in the night with the dew, and 
a Exod. 16. vers. 21.  melted (away) when the heat of the son came. Now Manna being so moist, that it would melt with the heat of the Sun, was not beaten in mortars to bring it to powder, as you boldly suppose, since it would rather cleave together then come to powder; but by bruising it between two stones, which was their kind of Mill in the Wilderness, or in a mortar with some water they did work it to batter or dough, thereof to make wafers or cakes. But were it so, that Manna would come to powder, which yet the text doth not infe●…re; will you conclude, because beating in a mortar bringeth dry things to powder, that therefore beating doth generally and necessarily signify beating to powder?  
And as that place is mistaken by you, which only seemed to make for you; so not one of the rest, which you quote in your ma●…gin doth convince either beating to powder, or breaking in pieces properly, to which you so violently wrest the words of ●…say. For where the Prophet saith, the 
b Esa. 19 v. 10.  Nets of Egypt shall be torn, that is far from beating to powder, except you have lately devised the powder of Nets to make a plaster of. And if we should say they were torn to pieces, what necessity is there, that either this tearing should be properly breaking, which you admit not but in things that be stiff and hard as bones and such like; or that those pieces should be divided from the whole, and not rather be ruptures in the whole, as we see in torn nets, which are not always rend clean a sunder? The next and last place which you quote for the proper use of this word, it as wide from your purpose, as West from East. 
c Deu. 23. v. 1.  None wounded (saith Moses) with any contusion ●…r abscission of his secret parts, shall enter into the congregation of the Lord. Can thos●… parts of man be properly broken in pieces, or beaten to powder? They may be bruised or wounded, as other fleshy parts may be, but breaking to pieces properly, or beating to powder, were very strange in that case. That bruising was used as well as cutting, to make men eunuchs, appeareth by Paulus Aegineta; where he saith: 
Paulus Aegineta. lib. 6. cap. 68  Hu●…us re●… modus duplex est, unus collisione, alter excision absoluitur: The way to do this is double, one by bruising, the other by cutting. And since Moses compriseth both these ways in his words, it is evident that DACCA is a bruise, and consequently the word may be properly applied to Christ's body, which was sorely bruised as well with the beating of s●…aues and whips, as with piercing and grating of iron spikes.  
These are the grounds on which you gather, the Prophet could not by that word mean the wounding and bruising of Christ's body; but because powder and pieces, as you dream, are properly comprised in that theme, therefore it must be referred to the soul of Christ. As if pieces and powder came nearer in souls to the right signification of bruising, than the mangling, tearing, and contusing of Christ's body, which he suffered from the violent rage of the jews. Your other word of the very same nature, keep to yourself. When your proofs fail you in this, you may not be suffered to rove at your pleasure, and to reach after other words, & out of your own unlearned skill to vouch, they are of the very same nature. Wherefore there is no cause why the coherence of Esaies' words should be cut in sunder by your unhandsome device of the pieces and powder of souls; but as the first words in that sentence, 
e Esa. 53. v. 5.  he was wounded for our transgressions, and the last, with his stripes we are healed, are plainly referred to the punishments of Christ's body; so the midst, he was bruised for our iniquities, should have the same relation and intention, especially the Prophet foretelling the people, what they should see in their Messias, and how they should misjudge of him. 
f Ibid. v. 4.  We (saith Esay) did judge him as plagued and smitt●…n of God, but he was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities, and with his stripes are we healed.  
Neither is it any strange thing in the Scriptures to join this very word which you talk so much of with wounding as with a word of the same nature and force. For besides that Moses saith, 
g Deut. 23.  None wounded with any bruising or ●…utting of his secret parts, shall enter into the Lord's congregation; David saith to God, Thou hast bruised Rahab, as one that is wounded. Where wounding & bruising are more properly linked together as words of like force and effect, than your breaking of souls into pieces, or beating them to powder. The very same word is also used in the Scriptures, to note the bruising of man's body by sickness, or of his estate by wrong and oppression. David in a grievous sickness complaining that he felt nothing sound in his flesh, nor any rest in his bones; addeth: 
h Psal. 38. v. 8.  I am weakened and bruised very much. Bruise not the poor in the gate, saith Solomon; that is, oppress not the poor in judgement. The children of the foolish shall be 
i job. 5. v. 4.  bruised (that is, oppressed) in the gate, and none shall deliver them. And when it is applied to the soul, it may note that to be either wounded with sorrow, oppressed with wrong, or humbled with obedience; but as for powder and pieces, from which you would pull a just proportion, which nothing can answer but the pains of hell, it is a sick conceit of your own brain; it hath no derivation either from the Prophets or Apostles words.  
You did not mean, that 
k Defenc. pa. 44. li. 18. & 29.  the soul might be properly broken in pieces, but that thus it is nearer and better applied to the soul than to the body; which was only pierced and boared thorough.] Then was your former opposition out of the Scripture very licentious, and your conclusion as frivolous. In that a bone of Christ's was not broken, you inferred that Esaies' words, He was broken for our sins, 
l Trea. pa. 10. li. 16.  could not be properly meant of Christ's body, flesh, and bones: as if there were no breaking of joints, veins, sinews, flesh, or skin; but only of bones. And yet as if the soul of Christ, which is by nature altogether indivisible, might properly be broken in pieces, you conclude the breaking of the bread can not properly belong to the body of Christ, BUT TO THE SOUL. Had you denied the breaking of the bread properly to belong to either, your words must have been; It can belong properly neither to the body, nor to the soul; but you deny the one, and avouch the other; It can not belong properly to the body, but to the soul. Whether those words of yours do not expressly import, that the breaking of bread doth properly belong to the soul of Christ, as to the truth wherein they must be verified, I leave it to the judgement of the discreet Reader. [Howbeit, you deny not, but 
m Defenc. pa. 44. li. 26.  broken applied to the soul (of Christ) is figurative.] And so you grant there was no cause you should take such exceptions as you did to the Apostles words, This is my body which is broken for you. For since it can not be verified of the soul, but figuratively as you now confess; it may so be most justly verified of Christ's body, without any sense of hell pains suffered in the soul of Christ. And if the consent of the English, Latin, and Greek tongues may be trusted for the use of a word; breaking may properly be affirmed of Christ's body, which can not be of his soul; for so much as his joints, veins, sinews, flesh and skin were broken and torn in sunder, 
Christ's body truly broken by the judgement of new and old writers.  though his bones were not.  
And but that your fashion is to follow no man farther than your fancy leadeth you, you might have seen with what reverence and conscience Master Beza, that otherwise upholdeth the sufferings of Christ's soul, referreth this word KLOMENON to the tearings and torments of Christ's body, being hereto led by the Apostles assertion. By the word 
n Beze Annot. in epist. ad Cor. 1. ca 11. v. 24.  broken (in Paul's words) is designed the kind●… of (Christ's) death; because, besides that the Lords body was torn, bruised, and even broken with most bitter torments, though his legs were not broken as the thieves were, Christ breathing out his soul with a most violent death, was as it were rend in two parts according to his human Nature. This word than hath a MARVELLOUS EXPRESS SIGNIFICATION, that the figure should fully agree with the thing itself; to wit, that the breaking of the bread should represent to our minds the very death of Christ. Peter Martyr having made your objection, that a bone of Christ was not broken, resolveth: But 
o Petr. Martyr i●… 1. epist. ad Corint. ca 11.  hereof I will not greatly contend for somuch as this breaking is by many Fathers referred to the body of Christ. With whom the words following do make, (broken) for you; which indeed leadeth me to consent unto them, and to acknowledge a double breaking, (one in the bread, another in the 
q Haymo in 1. ●…pist ad Corint. ca 11.  body of Christ) Bullinger saith, 
p Bulling. in 1. epist. ad Corint. cap. 11.  The bread is properly said to be broken, the body of man to be slain; howbeit, in the Hebrew tongue to break, is to waste, to kill and destroy. And so the visible bread, which in our sight is broken with our hands, doth certainly set before our eyes that body (of Christ) which was broken or done to death by us or for us. So Haymo: q Christ himself broke the bread, which he delivered to his Disciples, to show that the breaking and suffering of his body came not but of his own accord. Which words he took out of Beda upon the Gospels of Mark and 
r Beda in Marci cap 14. & in jucae ca 22.  Luke. Before whom, Prosper: 
s De consecratione dist. 2. Et cum ●…ostia.  When the host is broken, and the blood is powered out into the mouths of the faithful, what other thing is designed than the doing to death of the Lords body on the cross, and the shedding of the blood out of his side? And likewise Austen: 
t August. de feria. 4. ca 6. ●…m. 9  The table of thy spouse (saith he to the Church) hath bread that is whole, quem fractum & comminutum vidimus in Passione, which we saw broken and bruised in his Passion. Of this bread the Lord himself said; The bread which I will give, is my flesh. And indeed whosoever shall duly consider the violence done to every part of Christ's body before and on the cross, shall find a far sharper and so●…er kind of breaking, than if his legs had been knapped in sunder as the thieves were; and see just cause why Paul compared the breaking of Christ's body to the breaking of the bread, though you idly or falsely say it was ONLY PIERCED or boared thorough. For if by piercing you mean all kind of violence, that impressed any pain in the body; then is piercing far larger and grievouser than your kind of breaking, which is of bones; and more than such piercing, Christ's body needed not, to answer the similitude of breaking the bread. But if by piercing you mean boaring thorough, as you seem to expound it; then did Christ's body suffer many violences, as buffeting, striking, whipping, piercing with thorns, and such like, which were no boring thorough. And so there is either no weight or no truth in your words, that Christ's body was only pierced and boared thorough.  

u Defenc. pa. 43. li. 37.  Vainly you charge me, I know not how often, against my express words, that I call hell, heaven, and descending, ascending; but here it is no wrong to charge you with such an absurdity 
Proper opposed to metaphorical.  indeed, who expressly do make that, which you say is FIGURATIVE, to be a proper denomination.] If I charge you falsely, when you come to the place conceal it not; in the meantime, if there were any inconvenience in this, as there is none, it was the tracing of you in your own terms. For you argued, that Christ's body could not be said properly to be broken, because no bone of his was broken; and consequently it is your collection, that if a bone (which is but a part of Christ's body) had been broken, the body of Christ (which is the whole) might be said to have been properly broken. Mine answer was, that since Christ's body had other parts besides his bones, which by his own words are contained under the name of his flesh, if any parts of his flesh were truly broken, the whole body might be said to be properly broken, as well in respect of his flesh, as of his bones. What absurdity find you in this, that first proceeded not from yourself? But, were the words mine own, when I speak as a Divine of the propriety of signification, calling that proper which is not metaphorical; and affirm, that as the sense of the word BROKEN was proper in a part of Christ's body, so must it likewise be proper and not metaphorical in the whole, because the whole, which taketh his denomination from a part, must retain the same signification of the word, which was verified in that part; what boys play is it in you to come from metaphors to other kinds of figures, and to trifle with terms of proper and figurative (when I opposed proper to metaphorical) and child●…shlie to charge me, that I speak contraries with a breath? As if one and the same speech might not be figurative in expressing the whole for a part, which is Synecdoche, and yet retain his proper signification, and be no metaphor. Except therefore your Grammar be so great, that every Synecdoche must needs be a metaphor; and your Logic so little, that you can not distinguish a subject from a predicate; I see no cause but one and the same speech or proposition may be figurative in the subject, by understanding the whole for a part; and yet proper in the predicate, by reason the sense thereof is not metaphorical. For these be figurae dictionum, not orationum; figures of words, not of sentences. As in our case whether Christ's body were properly broken, or no: if the body, which is the subject in that proposition, by Synecdoche be taken for a part; then broken, which is the predicate, must the rather be properly and not metaphorically affirmed of that part, which was truly broken: how beit, as I think, since the proper sense of breaking was verified of all or the most parts of Christ's body, it must likewise be verified of the whole body.  
But omit these Grammatical and Logical points, wherewith many Readers are not acquainted, and come to the very pitch of my words. I do not affirm, that the whole for a part is a proper speech, as you conceive me; but that the whole from a part may properly (and not metaphorically) take his denomination. That a man speaketh, writeth, heareth; seeth, tasteth, smelleth, and such like, are they proper or figurative speeches in your censure? Proper I think; and yet no part in man's body is the instrument of speech besides the tongue, of writing besides the hand, of hearing besides the care, of seeing besides the eye, of tasting besides the mouth, of smelling besides the nose. Infinite are the actions of the body naturally executed by certain parts, as eating, drinking, sleeping, spitting, coughing, weeping, and other such, which no man in his right wits will affirm to be figurative actions or speeches in man; and yet in them all, a part doth denominate the whole. In the virtues and vices of the mind, as for men to be wise, sober, diligent, patient, liberal, learned, mindful, watchful, and such like, or the contrary; shall we say, that men be figuratively and not properly and truly such, because these are gifts of the mind, and not of the body? The very essential parts of man, as understanding, will, reason, sense, and appetite; shall they likewise make figurative speeches in men, because none of them are common to all the parts and powers of body and soul, but in every of them a part doth denominate the whole? It may be you will not greatly stick to turn Porphyries predicables and Aristotle's predicaments into Mosellanes tropes, and make figures of them all; what say you then to the branches of Christian faith and truth? are they also figurative and improper speeches? That Christ is the son of God, and the son of David; that he was borne of a virgin, and circumcised in the eight day; that he fasted, hungered, and was tempted; that he eat and slept, wept, and waxed weary; that he was buffeted, whipped, and crucified; that he died for our sins, and rose for our righteousness; that he ascended into heaven, and thence shall come to judge the quick and the dead; and an infinite number of the like: are all these figurative speeches in your conceit? I hope you be not so fastened to figures, that you will make us a figurative faith, and a figurative Saviour; and yet in all these, a part doth denominate the whole. Your eyes therefore were somewhat close, or your wits wandering, when you could not see the difference betwixt taking the whole for a part, and denominating the whole by a part; which is so common and constant both in Divinity and Philosophy, that in all natural and necessary actions, passions, and proprieties, the whole receiveth his attribute from a part. And so my words rest sound and true, both in human reason and in holy Scripture, notwithstanding your vain proclamation of so clear and express an absurdity in them. But you must be borne with, your humour is so sharp, and your head so shallow, that your left hand knoweth not what your right s●…ibleth.  
Your despising the Ecclesiastical history as a fable, is a spark of your pride, from which few ancient writers are free; howbeit the Scriptures are plain enough for my purpose, to prove that Christ's body was truly broken. They witness that the jews 
x Mark. 14. vers. 16.  buffeted him with their sistes, and smote him with their S●…rieants staves; then Pilate 
y Ma●…th. 27. vers. 26.  scourged him, that the soldiers 
z 29.  plaited a crown of thorns on his head, and then did 
a 3●….  beat him on the head with reeds and 
b joh. 19 v. 3.  rods; that his crucifiers 
c P●…al. 22. vers. 16.  digged his hands and feet, and pulled 
d Vers. 14.  all his bones out of joint; and that in this plight the weight of his body hung on the cross three hours by the wounds of his hands & feet; and when he was dead, his 
e john 19 vers. 34.  side was pierced with a spear, besides the mocks, wrongs and taunts that were offered him on every side: and yet all this you say is 
f Defenc. pa 44. li. 21.  not in any sense proportionable to the propriety of the word KLO'MENON and MEDUCCA. You prate of PROPRIETIES and proportions to no end, but to colour your absurdities and presumptions. What Christian Reader will endure you to say, that the Apostle in applying the word KLO'MENON to the body of Christ, had neither propriety nor proportion to the right sense of the word? If he did not speak properly in those words, (which is broken for you) as I think he did, yet at least he must speak metaphorically and figuratively, and so keep a resemblance and proportion to the original sense of the word; except your wisdom will avouch that the holy Ghost ignorantly and unadvisedly abuseth the word. Which if you confess of yourself, I will easily believe, because you neither know what you affirm, nor what you deny. For where afore you said in plain words, 
g Trea. pa. 14.  the breaking of the bread CAN NOT PROPERLY BELONG BUT TO THE SOUL (of Christ,) Now you grant it properly belongeth neither to body nor to soul; only from powder and pieces you take a just and full proportion in the soul to the proper sense of those words. You have me in jealousy that 
h Defenc. pa. 44. li. 16.  I think you to be a senseless fool; indeed I think you to be more conceited then learned, and a great deal more shifting then sound, though in this book you have sought the help of all your friends to maintain the most of your matters with as it were; but if you reject the Apostles words as wanting both propriety and proportion, except your hell pains be admitted; and make out just and full proportions from powder and pieces unto the soul of Christ, I doubt your Reader will think these be senseless and foolish Toys.  
If I would play with proportions as you do, I need not depart from the words of the holy Ghost to find a fairer resemblance to the proper sense of those words in the body of Christ crucified, than you make any. 
i Psal. 22. v. 14.  All my bones are sundered, saith David in the person of Christ, and 
k & 15.  thou hast brought me into the dust of death. Of which and all that went before, Eusebius saith, 
l Eusebius demonstr●…. Euangel. li. 10. ●…a. 8.  what else do all these signify but the condition of (Christ's) dead body? Wherefore he presently addeth, and into the dust of death thou hast brought me. Here in express words is the dust of death to which Christ's body was brought, and besides, all his bones were sundered. Now to be sundered is evidently to be divided, and that must be with parts or pieces; the natural coherence wherewith the bones were formerly joined, being loosed and dissolved, though one part be not severed from the other. Whether therefore the word broken be properly or figuratively taken, I see no cause why the Apostles words may not in either sense be fully true. For if the joints, veins, sinews, flesh, and skin of Christ's body from head to foot were properly straeined, rend and torn, besides the severing of his soul from his body; then was his body truly broken. If by breaking we figuratively mean, as others do, the affliction and anguish of Christ's body; then as no part was free from it, so no increase of bodily pain in this life could be added to his sufferings: and so in either respect your hell pains have their passport, till you find some fitter place and better proof for them then either KLO'MENON or MEDUCCA.  
The next point you undertake is whether the blood of Christ be the full Redemption 
The Defender aludeth the Scriptures with his terms of single & mere.  as well of our bodies, as of our Souls in this life. Wherein, because the word Redemption is diversly taken in the Scriptures, as for deliverance sometimes from sin, sometimes from death, sometimes from the power and fear of either; and all the promises of God we have now in hope, though not some of them indeed till the general resurrection: you show yourself cunning in carping at words, which you labour to turn and wind every way. But before you come to it, you make a short and swift answer to all the places of Scripture, which I produce touching the force and effects of Christ's blood; lest you should have 
m Defenc. pa. 45. li. 12.  any need to trouble yourself hereafter about any of them. Where, as your manner is throughout your book, you first change the question with adding your witless and senseless terms of mere, single, and simple to my words, and then without any more ado, 
n Ibidem li. 7.  Your advised and resolute answer to all is this; 
o & 11.  there is not one text any where that hath any meaning of my strange conceit. It were reason, a man would think, you took the pains to impugn my words, and not to presume you know my meaning against my words, and so to frame it after your fashion with your new found phrases, which I abhor as much as I do your new found faith.  

p Defenc. pa. 44. li. 32.  You will prove the blood of our Saviour is the true price of our Redemption, and that as well of our souls as of our bodies. Who denieth this as your words run?] It is happy yet that my words run well, whatsoever my conceit be. Now if I mean no more than I speak, and the sacred Scriptures fully concur with that which I speak; then have I both the word of God to warrant that I teach, and besides your own confession that as I speak it, it is truth. 
q Defenc. pa. 44. li. 35.  But you know I mean, that no more but the shedding of Christ's blood ONLY AND MERELY, is the just and full satisfaction of all our sins.] What my meaning is you cannot be ignorant, I have often declared it, not here only, but in my Sermons and conclusion also, as I have formerly showed, and you have plainly confessed. I will once more repeat your own words and hereafter by your leave tell you it is a plain lie and a mere shift, if you father your terms of Christ's mere blood, and single body upon me, as any part of the Question which I moved, or Doctrine which I defend. Wherefore I pray thee Christian Reader once more to take notice, that I be not driven in every page to prove one and the same thing against the Discoursers unsavoury, childish, and Idle phrases, with which he would feign elude the Scriptures, and delude the world. Your confession both of my Sermons and conclusion (Sir Descourser) is this; 
r Defenc. pa. 36. li. 9  Sundry times you teach, that Christ did suffer peculiarly and severally some proper punishments in his soul, besides his bodily sufferings: yea that this was a part of his cross, and the effect of God's wrath on his soul, as well as the suffering in his body. Against my words so often witnessed in my writings, and so openly confessed by yourself, you take upon you (by some secret revelation belike) to know my meaning, that 
s Defenc. pa. 45. li. 3.  no more but the shedding of Christ's blood MERELY is the full satisfaction of all our sins; which MERE BLOOD of Christ the Scriptures mean not, nor only his body SINGLY and SIMPLY considered.] The MERE blood, and SINGLE and SIMPLE body of Christ, with such like coverts of your cause, are terms fit for such a teacher as you are, to which if you could once convert the Question, we must have as many Lexicons to bring us out of these Laberinthes, as there be leaves in your book. Keep them therefore as whelps of your own litture, the faith of Christ and the word of God hath stood without them these sixteen hundred years.  
What I mean by the body and blood of Christ, given, and shed for our Redemption, and the remission of our sin; I have meetly well expressed; I must not in every section fall to fresh repetitions. When I speak as the Scripture speaketh, I mean as the Scripture meaneth. They know not your new terms of the MERE blood, nor of the single and simple body of Christ; but by his blood and death they mean that manner of shedding his blood, and that kind and course of death suffered in the body of his flesh, which the Gospel describeth; no way excluding from Christ, when he presented himself before God to undertake man's cause the due consideration of man's infirmity and iniquity abounding, or of God's justice therewith displeased; nor his humble and voluntary submission to the mighty hand and righteous will of his heavenly Father, to excuse us from the heavy judgement that otherwise did hang over our heads. So much as the Scriptures mention in declaring the manner of his death and bloodshedding, so much they contain in the name of his Cross, blood and death. For as the description, which the holy Ghost maketh, is in no point idle; so the comprehension of all under one word excludeth nothing formerly described. This I take to be a sound and sure way to expound the Scriptures by their own direction and intention. For since the manner and order of Christ's death was so carefully registered by the spirit of God, that we should not be ignorant of it; whensoever the Scriptures speak of Christ's Cross, blood, and death, they refer us to all that, which either by the Prophets was foretold, or in the Gospel is expressed touching the order and manner of his death. And so Christ 
1. Cor. 15. vers. 3.  died for our sins according to the Scriptures (as Paul addeth.) Then to take any thing from it, which is mentioned in the Scriptures; or to add any thing to it, which is not there expressly recorded; is to depart from the word of truth, and to dishonour and deface the death and blood of Christ with our inventions.  
This being my meaning even from the beginning, as my words declare, I moved these two general questions: The first, Whether in the cross and death of Christ described in the Scriptures, the death of the soul, or the death of the damned, were by any good warrant of the said Scriptures comprised: Secondly, Whether the cross and death of Christ, as the Scriptures describe them, be not the full and perfect price of our redemption from sin, and reconciliation to God by the testimony of the same Scriptures, without the death of the soul, or pains of the damned. The Discourser finding himself enclosed with these questions, speaketh directly to neither, and proveth nothing in either; but declining the envy of these speeches, the death of the soul, and the pains of the damned, which indeed are the points misliked and rejected, he changeth the first question into the general terms of suffering God's wrath, and the souls proper suffering, which may import many things besides those two; and in the second, he every where beareth the Reader in hand, that by the death and blood of Christ, I mean the MERE bodily sufferings of Christ, without any sense or sorrow of the soul in her spiritual powers. And lest the Scripture should stand in his way, he casteth them all behind him, that any way witness the force and merit of Christ's death and bloodshedding, as figurative speeches; because they name not the MERE blood of Christ, nor only his body SINGLY considered. But Sir, all this while you forget, that you have proved nothing, but only supposed and avouched what pleased you; and that in matters of faith you may not add to the word of God without manifest apostasy. The things questioned by me, were the 
u Sermo. pa. 8. li 23. & pa. 9 li. 14.  death of the soul, and the very pains of the damned, as appeareth evidently by my words, when I first moved the question. Of these you say nothing all this while; which yet you must sound & fully prove before you may add them to the words of the Holy ghost testifying the power & virtue of Christ's blood and death. Therefore howsoever you seem to shift off the Scriptures as figurative speeches with your MERE and SINGLE terms, they will stick faster by you than so. For as there 
The Scriptures teach no redemption, but by the blood and death of Christ.  can be no doubt of my meaning, comprising all in the death and blood of Christ, which the Scriptures report of the order and manner of his sufferings, when he yielded himself to die for the sins of the world according to the counsel of his Father's will; so you may not presume any thing to be contained in the death or cross of Christ, as requisite for our redemption, which is not clearly witnessed by the Scriptures. Prove therefore by the Scriptures, that Christ died the death of the soul, or the death of the damned, which are the true pains of hell; and then add it to the cross of Christ when you will. Till so you do, the Scriptures which I have produced, stand in their full strength against you. For as they bind all Christian men steadfastly to believe that which is written touching their redemption by the death and blood of Christ; so do they straightly prohibit all and every, be they men or Angels, to add any other device to the doctrine of our salvation, than what is evidently revealed, and directly witnessed in the Scriptures.  

x August. contra literas Petil. li. 3. & ca 6.  Whether it be of Christ (saith Austen) or of any other thing what soever touching the faith; I say not, if we, who are no way comparable to him that so spoke, but that which followeth, if an Angel from heaven teach you BESIDES that which you have received in the Scriptures, of the Law and the Gospel, hold him accursed. 
y Basil. in serm. de fide.  It is a manifest fall from the faith (saith Basil) either to abrogate any thing that is written, or to bring in any thing that is not written. For 
z Tertul. adverse. ●…aeretices. cap. 8.  when once we believe (the Gospel, saith Tertullian) this we first believe, that there is nothing besides, which we ought to believe. So that the mere blood and single body of Christ are but sleights of yours, with unknown phrases to draw your Reader from ask or eyeing your proofs for the death of Christ's soul, and the pains of the damned to be suffered by him, before we could be redeemed. The Scriptures are main and manifest for that which I believe and teach, and which the whole Church of Christ before me, taught and believed these fifteen hundred years, afore your conceit of hell pains in the soul of Christ was either hatched or heard of. The sufferings of the soul and the wrath of God, which things you now catch hold on to make some introduction to your secret and private fancies, are too general to infer either the death of the soul or the pains of the damned, except to the rest of your absurdities you will add these, that the soul never suffereth but it dieth the death of spirits; and that God's anger in this life hath none other effects, but damnation.  

a Defenc. pa. 45. li. 13.  Here you urge a reason against us: if then our souls be not redeemed by the blood of Christ, our bodies have no benefit of Redemption from death.] You hunt so headily after advantages of words by some ambiguity in them, that you neither remember what the Scriptures teach, nor what yourself defend, nor when I use a word in the same sense that the Apostle doth. It is not my devise, but the Apostles doing, to take REDEMPTION of the body for the incorruption of the same. 
b Rom. 8. 23.  We sigh in ourselves, saith Paul, waiting for the Redemption of our body. And again, you are 
c Ephes. 4. 30.  sealed by the holy spirit of God unto the day of Redemption. When that day shall be, our Saviour telleth us in these words. When the 
d Luk. 21. 28.  powers of heaven shall be shaken, and you see the son of man come in a cloud with power and great glory, then lift up your heads; for your Redemption draweth near; In all which places Redemption is taken for none of those mercies or graces, which are bestowed on God's children in this life, but for that glory and immortality, which shall be revealed on them, when Christ shall come to judge the world; and namely the Redemption of the body for that incorruption, wherewith 
e Philip 3. 21.  our vile bodies shall be changed and made like to his glorious body. Take then the Redemption of the body for the incorruption of the same, as the Apostle plainly doth and I did; and see what absurdity or obscurity there is in my reason, which you so much wrangle with, and wonder at, as though it passed all understanding. The Redemption, which we have in this life by the blood of Christ, must needs be either of body or of soul; we have no more parts to be redeemed by Christ. But the Redemption of our bodies we have not in this world, we must wait for it, till 
f 1. Cor. 15. 53, 54.  this corruptible put on incorruption. The Redemption therefore which we have in this life, or shall have before the last day, is the Redemption of our souls. And so the words of Peter, 
g 1. Pet. 1. 19  You were Redeemed with the precious blood of Christ, and of the Saints in heaven, saying to the Lamb, 
h reve. 5. 9  Thou hast redeemed us to God by thy blood, pertain expressly to the Redemption of their souls, because their bodies then did, and yet do lie in corruption. What so strange monsters or marvels, doth your Logical head find in this reason, that you should make such wonderizations at it, and protestations against it? Is it not open and easy to all, that be meanly witted or soberly minded?  
But you have 
i Defenc. pag. 45. li. 17.  three things to note (in my words which you allege:) 1. The Proposition is vain and Illogicall, having no consequence in it at all.] It is a special point of Art memorative in you to note three things, and utterly to forget two of them. For in this whole Section, you do not so much as mention any second or third thing to be noted in those words which you cite. The first and all, which you note, is that my proposition is vain, Illogicall, and uncoherent.] Your idle and untheologicall head hath over busied itself with many mad multiplications, and what ifs upon this proposition; and yet you come nothing near the sense or coherence of it. The Proposition hath two parts, whereof the second is either an illation out of the Apostles words, upon the first being a supposition of yours, if we limit it to the time of this life; or if we speak without restraint of time as you do, it is a necessary consequent to the former, being the condition and cause of the latter. That our souls are not redeemed by the blood of Christ, but by his soul, is a resolution of yours; wherewith you give a fresh onset in the next Section, as the Reader shall there perceive, though here in show you somewhat relent after your inconstant manner. That being a position of yours; I added by the Apostles warrant, that our bodies have not their Redemption in this life, but must stay for it till the day of Redemption, or general resurrection. And so the reason standeth: 
k Conclu. pa. 240 l. 24.  If our souls be not (here) redeemed by the blood of Christ, (which is your Assertion) our bodies (by the Apostles doctrine) have no Redemption in this life. But this, That we should 
l Ibidem 241. li. 6. et ᵐ 8.  presently have no Redemption (in body or soul) by the blood of Christ is quite ᵐ contrary to the words of Peter, who saith, Ye are redeemed by the blood of Christ, (not ye shall be;) and of the souls in heaven that say to Christ, thou hast redeemed us by thy blood, when their bodies were rotten in the earth. Since therefore either body or soul must have Redemption in this life, and the body as Paul assureth us, hath not Redemption in this life; 
n Vt supra. pa. 240. li. 31.  Ergo the Redemption which we have in this life by the blood of Christ, must be referred to our souls; and our bodies must expect the general day of Redemption in the end of the world, before they shall have it. If the sober and wise Reader understand not this reason, or can dislike the sequence of it, I am content he shall condemn it as dark and obscure; but if it be open to all men's eyes save yours; then is your dull conceit or eager stomach rather betrayed by your foolish rolling to so many what ifs, than my reason any way refuted. [I alter, you will say, the order of it.] Though I spoke then more shortly than now I do, because I had no leisure to stand so long thereon, yet he that will Read but the third part of that Section whence you take this, shall find the very same parts and words, that now I use, there contained and expressed.  
But I afterward defend the proposition with the condition annexed to be simply true.] When I saw your humour was so frantic, that not understanding my words, you would presently pronounce them in the view of the whole Realm to be a notorious Paradox and impiety, I bid you take your uttermost advantage of my words; and as they stood, though that were not my first intent, they were sound and good, and your impugning them was profane and false. I yet avouch the same. For where the Scriptures teach no Redemption but by the death and blood of Christ, your other deu●…sed Redemptions by the death of the soul, and pains of Hell, I account no better then false and profane. And therefore if our souls be not that way redeemed, which the Scriptures reveal, which is by the death and blood of Christ; they are not redeemed at all. And being not at all redeemed, I would feign know by the best of your skill, what benefit of Redemption our bodies shall or can have, more than the bodies of Infidels. Yea set that redemption aside, which the Scriptures attribute to the death and blood of Christ, and neither body nor soul can be saved, but infidelity and the wages thereof, I mean damnation both of soul and body, prevail in all men. So that you were not well in your wits, when with such an heat and huff you cried out 
o Trea. pa. 23. li. 13.  What a Pradoxe is it, yea what impiety? But I must choose whether I will speak this sophistically or absurdly, you say.] Is it any sophistry or absurdity to speak as the Spirit of God speaketh in the Scriptures? Your MERE blood of Christ is indeed absurd Sophistry: for you imagine by that word, that Christ shed his blood for our sins without any meritorious action or passion of the soul concurring, which in the Redeemer of the world was so impossible, as nothing more. If I speak otherwise than the Scriptures speak, take your pleasure at it, so you bring reason for it; but when I keep myself within the compass of their speech, your a●…ouching that I speak sophistically or absurdly, reproacheth the Scriptures, whom I follow. In either of those points which you impugn, as that our souls are redeemed by the blood of Christ, and that our bodies have not redemption in this life, I have the Scriptures plainly precedent before me, and therefore except they speak sophistically or absurdly, I in retaining their speech and sense can do neither.  
The difference betwixt the deaths of the faithful and infidels, is a thing well 
The ●…oly hath not his redemption before the last day.  known to me, and approved by me; yet must the Apostles words stand true, that in this life we have not the Redemption of our bodies, but we must wait for it 
p Acts 3. 21.  till the time that all things be restored. That Christ hath already purchased and obtained it for us by his death and passion, I make no doubt, as also that we rest in hope assured of it; but 
q Rom. 8. 24.  hope which is seen, is not hope: and though the souls of the Saints retain a firm faith and full expectance of God's promise for the raising and Redeeming of their bodies from corruption, and in the mean time discern and feel as well the comfort that is in the death of Gods elect, as the great blessings and benefits that follow their death; yet their bodies lying in dust have no show nor sense thereof, much less have they that which Paul calleth the 
r Rom. 8. v. 23.  Redemption of the body. From which words Saint Austen collecteth very truly, 
s Aug. de nuptijs & concupiscentia li. 1. c. 1●…  Si Redemptio corporis nostri secundum Apostolum expectatur, profecto quod expectatur adhuc speratur, nondum tenetur. If the Redemption of our body by the Apostles doctrine must be waited for, that which is expected is still hoped for, but not yet obtained. Take then the Redemption of the body for the incorruption of the same, as Paul doth, whom in that point I followed, and tell me what benefit of incorruption (which is the word you so much storm at) the bodies of the faithful have more than the bodies of infidels. You range aside as your manner is, to the ceasing of sin in the godly, and their resting from labours, as also the entrance of their souls into heaven; as if the bodies of the wicked did sin in their graves, or were tossed with troubles when they were dead and rotten, or in the Saints your sight did not serve you to distinguish their souls from their bodies. For when I say as Paul saith, their bodies have not yet redemption; you reply, their souls after death have an entrance into heaven. Even so, when I say, that the death of the body to the saints is a part of that wrath, curse, and punishment which God inflicted on all mankind for their sin in Adam, as shall after (God willing) more largely appear; you oppose the benefits which God of his peculiar goodness towards his children, hath reserved for them, after they have obediently and patiently submitted themselves to his divine pleasure, in bringing their bodies to corruption for the sin that dwelleth in them. And thus by your mangling of matters you confound in the godly their souls with their bodies, and in God himself his justice against sin with his mercy towards his own. You might have learned of S. Austen rightly to sever them as he doth, though you cross him in this, as in most of the things that are in question betwixt us. 
t Aug. contra dua●… epistolas Pelagianor. li. 4. ca4.  Quamuis bonis conferatur per mortem plurimum boni (unde nonnulli etiam de bono mortis congruenter disputaverunt) tamen & hinc quae praedicanda est nisi misericordia Dei, quòd in bonos usus convertitur poena peccati? Though much good come to the godly by death; (whereupon some have accordingly written of the benefits of death) yet what else in this must we acknowledge but the mercy of God, that the punishment of sin is turned to good uses? And so that ancient writer of the book Hypognosticôn amongst S. Austin's works: 
Hypognosti. li. 1. ca 3.  Vt moriantur homines poena peccati est, ut revertantur ad vitam Domini miserantis est: That men die is the punishment of (their) sin, that they return to life again is the Lords mercy.  

x Defenc. pag. 47. li. 1.  Before you depart from this point, that not the blood of Christ nor his flesh without respect to the merit of his whole soul, was the full price of redemption, you will show how sundry of 
Both body and soul must suffer in Christ.  the ancient Fathers do agree with you sufficiently in this matter, though afterwards in my book I seem to bring them against you.] If you had Fathers to witness your fancies of Christ's suffering the death of the soul and pains of hell, you would soon reckon them and more regard them, than now you do, when they directly gainsay your late device of a new kind of redemption, which the Scriptures never specify. These Fathers I brought not against you, as you imagine, not perceiving what maketh with you nor what against you. In show these places seemed to make against me, and to disclaim that assertion which I concluded out of the Scriptures, that the blood of Christ redeemed and sanctified both our bodies and souls. Lest therefore the simple should stumble at any such sayings of the Fathers, not knowing their meanings, I brought them to expound them, and to let the Reader see that indeed I dissented not from them: but confessed, as they intended, that in Christ's suffering for sin the whole man, that is, body and soul, must be joined together. And if any part of Christ's human nature were wholly freed and exempted from suffering, that part in us was not fully ransomed. By which they never meant that Christ's soul must have several sufferings for our souls, and his body likewise for our bodies; but as Adam sinned in both jointly, so the punishment of sin, which Christ undertook for us, must be felt jointly in both, and if either part in Christ's sufferings were untouched, some part in us was unrestored. This to be the true meaning of those Fathers, and all that their words must infer, if they will speak truth, and agree with themselves, as no doubt they do, yourself is a witness sufficient against yourself. In defence of your doctrine you say: 
y Treat. pag. 22. li. 21.  It is most false, that we precisely say, that Christ's body satisfied for our bodies, and his soul for our souls, yea each of them in a several and distinct kind of satisfying: which thing we never meant, but acknowledge the sufferings of the whole man Christ do satisfy for us wholly, without any such precise partition.] What you dare not affirm, because it is false and repugnant to the Scriptures, I hope you will not impose on the Fathers, so long as their words conclude no such thing. They say precisely Christ 
z Irenaeu●…. li. 5. cap. 1.  gave his flesh (to be a redemption) for our flesh, and his soul likewise (to be a redemption) for our souls, Whereby they mean no distinct sufferings of Christ's soul for our soul, nor of his body for our bodies; but a joint suffering of both for both, which you call the sufferings of the whole man Christ for us wholly. So far we agree; you acknowledging 
z Cyril. de fide ad Theodosium.  mine exposition of the Fathers to be such as you do not, nor dare not impugn: for otherwise you must make them contradict both the Scriptures, and themselves which they never meant, if they should say that our souls are not cleansed, redeemed, and sanctified by the blood of Christ: What now infer you farther out of their words?  

a Defence pag. 47. li. 27.  Mark well how these Fathers do not say that Christ gave his life for a ransom only (as you would construe it) but even his very soul for our souls.] You are a worthy Clerk if you understand not, that nothing but the very soul of man is the life of his body, and therefore Christ in giving his life for us, must needs give his very soul for us. The one of them doth not exclude the other, as you vainly collect, but implieth the other, as by the usual speeches of the Scriptures, and general consent of all Interpreters old and new may soon appear. 
b Matt. 2. v 20  They are dead (saith the Angel to joseph) that sought the child's soul; meaning Herod that went about to destroy Christ in his cradle. 
c Matt. 6. v. 25  Be not pensive for your soul (saith our Saviour) what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink. Is not your soul of more value than meat? Meat and drink maintain life, and so continue the soul in the body, otherwise they are no way needful for the soul. 
d Matth. 10. vers. 39  He that loseth his soul for my sake, (saith Christ) shall save it. How can a man lose his soul for Christ, but by laying down his life for Christ? There shall be no loss 
e Acts 27. vers. 22.  of any man's soul among you, but of the ship, said Paul to them that sailed with him; which was performed in that they 
f Ibidem v 44. Philip. 2 30.  came all safe to land. So of Epaphroditus Paul saith; for the work of Christ he was near unto death, not regarding his Soul. Nothing is more often in the Scriptures then for life to use the name of Soul, which is the cause of life; and by the soul to express life, which is a necessary consequent of the Soul remaining in the body, as death is of the Soul departing from the body. This kind of speech so familiar with the Hebrews, and so frequent in the old and new Testament, our Saviour keepeth, when he speaketh of his own death. 
g ●…ohn. 10. vers. 11.  The good shepherd (saith Christ) layeth down his soul for his sheep. I am the good shepherd, and 
h Vers. 15.  lay down my soul for (the) sheep. 
i Vers. 17.  Therefore the Father loveth me, because I lay down my Soul to take it again. 
k Vers. 18.  No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. As also when he said; 
l Matth. 20.  the Son of man came to serve, and to give his soul for the ransom of many; he intended no more than when he said, I lay down my soul for ‖ the ‖ sheep, which must needs be for the ransom of the sheep. So the Prophet foretold that Christ should 
m Esay. 53.  pour out his soul unto death, and make it an offering for sin; which 
n 1. joh. 3.  love of God we know by this, (saith john) that he laid down his soul for us.  
If ancient Fathers and learned expositors may be heard concurring with the Scriptures, and observing this in the Scriptures, we want neither old nor new, all confessing it to be a case most clear, that by dying for us Christ laid down his Soul, and gave it for us. Christ 
o Athanas. de incarnate. Christi contra Apo●…inarium.  bowing his head (saith Athanasius) and yielding up the spirit which was within his body, that is his soul, declared whereof he spoke (this,) I lay down (my soul) for my sheep. Austen; 
p August. de sermone Domini in monte. li. 1. cap. 15.  the Soul is put for the life, as where it is said, he that hateth not his soul, can not be my Disciple. And likewise is not the soul more worth than meat? that is, this life, for which meat is needful. And (so) that which Christ saith, he will lay down his soul for his sheep, by which he meaneth his life, when he pronounceth that he will die for us, Ambrose; 
q Ambros. in Psal. 118. sermo. 20.  Christ took upon him the person of a shepherd, and said; a good shepherd layeth down his soul for his sheep. Ideóque pro rationali grege seipsum passioni corporis non negavit, and therefore for his reasonable flock he yielded himself to the passion, (or death) of his body. Cyrill. When Christ 
r Cyril. in joh. li. 9 ca 2.  might have declined the rage of the jews, and the gibbet of the cross, he so loved his, that he refused not to die for the life of all. And that this is most perfect charity, 
s Idem in johannem li. 10. ca 22.  I will cite our Saviour himself for a witness (where he saith;) greater love hath no man, then to lay down his soul for his friends. By all this Christ teacheth his Disciples to be so far from shunning dangers and troubles for the salvation of men, that the death of the flesh must not be refused; for even to that doth charity stretch. Fulgentius an other of the Fathers, on whom you would feign fasten your error of Christ's redeeming our souls by the death of his soul, and our bodies by the death of his body; not only noteth when and how Christ laid down his soul for us, but why that phrase is applied to Christ's death, and to all theirs, that die willingly for love, not necessarily upon constraint. 
t Fulgent. ad Thrasimundum li. 3.  The whole man (Christ) laid down his soul, when his soul departed, his flesh dying on the cross. And so again, 
t Ibidem.  Christ dying in the flesh, laid down his Soul; and showing the difference betwixt delivering the body to death and giving or laying down the soul, He saith 
t Ibidem.  Where love is not, the body is said to be delivered, but not the soul to be laid down; as the vessel of election plainly testifieth, If I give my body to be burnt, and have no love, it availeth me nothing. (Here Paul) declareth, that without love the body may be yielded, but not the soul laid down. For where he purposeth to signify the pureness of his love, he thus writeth to the Thessalonians. Our goodwill was to bestow on you not only the Gospel of God, but even our own souls; and to prove this an effect of his love he addeth, because ye were dear unto us. So that it is proved by manifest witness of Scripture, that there wanteth love, where the body only is laid down to death, but there is charity, where the soul is laid down together with the body. Beda. 
u Beda in evangelium johan. cap. 10.  Ponere ergo animam, mori est. Sic & Apostolus Petrus Domino dixit, animam pro te ponam, id est, pro te moriar carne. To lay down the Soul is to die. So the Apostle Peter said to Christ, I will lay down my Soul for thee, that is, I will die in the flesh for thee. 
x Ibidem.  A good shepherd (saith Christ) layeth down his soul for his sheep. He did, that he taught; he performed, that he commanded, he laid down his Soul for his sheep; and showed us a way to contemn death, which we must follow, and a pattern after which we must be Printed, which is first to extend our outward works of mercy towards his sheep; then if need be to offer our death for them.  
The later writers are all of the same mind, and expound those words of our Saviour, the Son of man came to serve, and to give his soul a ransom for many; and I lay down my soul for my sheep; to have none other sense, then that he would die for us, as the Fathers before them did expound the same. Erasmus in his paraphrase expressing our saviours meaning in both places saith in the person of Christ; 
y Eras. paraphra. in Matth. cap. 20.  Therefore I came even to serve the welfare of all, in so much that I think it no burden to give my life; by the loss of one soul to redeem many. And again; 
z Idem in joh. hannis. cap. 10.  Therefore my Father loveth me singularly as his Son, because of mine own accord I bestowed my life for the safety of my Father's flock. Bullinger likewise in the person of our Saviour; 
a Bullingerus in Mat. ca 20.  I came to serve the good of all, and that which is far greater, I came into this world to give my life for sinners. And so, 
b Idem in joh. cap. 10.  I yield myself to death, and even to the death of the cross, that my sheep believing in me, may live by my death. And alleging and relying on Saint Austin's words on the same place, he addeth out of Austen. To lay down the soul is to die. So Peter the Apostle said to his Master; I will lay down my soul for thee, that is I will die for thee. Attribute this to the flesh, for when the soul goeth out of the flesh, and the flesh remaineth without a soul, then is a man said to lay down his soul. What saith the Evangelist? Christ bowing his head gave up the Ghost; this is, to lay down the soul. Musculus; Christ declareth what his 
c Muscul. in Matth. ca 20.  ministery is; even to redeem mortal men, and the chiefest degree of this ministery is; that he would give his soul (for them.) Then are we redeemed by the only begotten Son of God, and that dearly, even with his own death. For the Lord of heaven and earth humbled himself unto death, and that unto a most shameful death. What was more vile or more abject in the world, than the death of the cross? And in the person of Christ; 
d Idem in joh. cap. 10.  Therefore my Father loveth me because I lay down my soul; that is, because I die for (my) sheep. calvin upon those words of Christ, I came to give my soul a Redemption for many: 
e Calvin. in Matth. ca 20.  Therefore Christ mentioneth his death, that he might withdraw his Disciples from a perverse imagination of an earthly kingdom. In the mean time the force and fruit of his death is aptly and rightly expressed, whiles he affirmeth his life to be the price of our Redemption. Whence it followeth that the price of our reconciliation with God, is no where found but in the death of Christ; and so; It is no marvel that Christ 
f Idem in joh. cap. 10.  affirmeth himself to be therefore loved (of his Father,) because he esteemeth our salvation dearer than his own life. 
g Ibid.  He would by this arm his Disciples, least seeing him soon after to be carried to death, they should faint in hart, as if he were oppressed by his enemies, but rather acknowledge it to be the wonderful providence of God, that he should die to redeem the flock. Gualther; 
h Gualtherus in Matth. cap. 20.  Christ (saith he) came to give his soul to be the price of Redemption for many. This passeth all offices, that men may yield one to another. For as himself saith, no man hath greater love than this, to give his soul for his friends. But he vouchsafeth to die for his enemies. And dying for us he bestowed life on us, because his death was a ransom sufficient for the sins of the world. And so; A good shepherd (saith Christ) layeth down his soul for his sheep. b As if he should have said, who can deny him to be a good shepherd that so 
i Idem in joh. cap. 10. homilia. 97.  much loveth his sheep, as not to refuse to redeem their safety with the loss of his own life? 
i Ibidem.  And because the Son of God hath exposed (or yielded) his life for us, who can doubt, but he hath satisfied abundantly for us? Vitus Theodorus. 
k Vitus Theodorus in Mat. cap. 20.  Christ saith the son of man came to minister, and to give his life for the Redemption of all. That surely is the chiefest and truest love and service, when a man serveth his enemies with body and life. And likewise in the person of Christ. 
l Idem in joh. cap. 10.  I alone am the good shepherd and lay down my soul for my sheep; that is, by my death men are delivered from eternal death.  
I ask now the Christian Reader whether he think it a shift of mine, when Christ 
Christ's Soul suffered, but died not for us.  gave his soul for us, or our souls, for me to say, that he gave it by the loss of his life, in such sort as the Evangelists describe; or whether the Scriptures and Fathers together with the later writers do not consent with me in the same exposition of Christ's words. This conclusion then that Christ gave his soul for our souls, doth not infer that he had distinct times, places, or manners, of suffering or dying for our souls and then for our bodies; (that is erroneous & injurious to the death of Christ and openly disclaimed even by the Discourser himself) but that in suffering death on the cross, by which his soul was separated from his body after long and sharp torments first endured in his body; his soul was the chief or rather the only patient, that discerned and sustained the bitterness of the pains, and perceived the cause for which, and the counsel of God from whence, all that affliction was ordained and decreed. For as we sinned in body and soul, but chiefly in soul, so Christ's death for our Redemption must grieve both body and soul, but chiefly the soul, which was joined with the body in suffering death; that both soul and body might be redeemed: and the pain thereof proportioned to the soul, as the pleasure of sin chiefly delighted the soul. More than this, no Father ever meant, and this is no way denied by me. You would feign wring in a conceit of your own into their words, which is mainly & directly against their words and resolutions in all other places, and therefore which of us two deserveth best the name of a shifter, let the Reader judge.  
The Fathers 
m Defenc. pa. 47. li. 30.  strive to express an exact proportion, so far as was possible between Christ and us; first in the parts that suffered in Christ, and are saved in us: 
n Ibid pa. 48. li. 3.  Next in that which Christ suffered for us, and which we are saved from thereby.] They justly conclude, that no parts of our nature are saved in us, but such as Christ assumed into the unity of his person; and therefore in Christ's sufferings there must be body and soul, before they could be human sufferings or available for us. As 
* 1. Cor. 15.  by man came death, so by man came the resurrection of the dead. But that they do or would affirm, that we are saved from no more than Christ suffered for us, or that we are wholly freed from all those kinds of pains, which he suffered for our sakes, this is a false and fantastical proportion of your own inventing, it is no part of their meaning. Sundry things should we have suffered for sin, as the death of the soul, and the death of the damned, besides rejection from all grace and bliss, confusion, malediction, and many other terrors and torments of conscience, which by no means these Fathers apply to Christ; but in evident and vehement words avouch the contrary. Christ likewise suffered wrong, reproach, shame, pain, and death of the body, from which we are not freed; yea rather we must have fellowship with his afflictions, and be 
o Philip. 3. 10.  conformed unto his death, before we shall be partakers of the comforts that are in him, or of his resurrection. So that your running to proportions of your own compounding, when you should bring sound probations for that you defend, is mad Music, though best becoming the discords of your doctrine.  

p Defenc. pag. 47. l. 32.  As we are saved not in our bodies only, nor only in the external sensitive part of our souls (wherein standeth that suffering with and by our bodies) but we are saved, redeemed, and sanctified in our whole spirit and understanding also; even so (by their verdict) Christ suffered for us not the bodily and outward sufferings by Sympathy only, but he suffered for us even in his mind also. Now this is directly against your present assertion.] A man can not readily tell, whether your assertion in this place be more false, absurd, or idle. The Scripture teacheth us, that a man hath but two substances, of which he consisteth, a mortal and visible, which is his body; an immortal and invisible, which is his soul. Our Saviour, who best knew what man had, saith as much: 
q Matt. 10.  Fear not them, which kill the body, but can not kill the soul; fear him rather, that can destroy soul and body in hell. The names of these parts are sometimes varied, and sometimes divided into sundry powers and faculties, but the parts themselves cannot be increased. Solomon speaking of man's death, saith: 
r Eccles. 12.  Dust goeth to the earth as it was, (meaning the body) and the Spirit returneth to God that gave it, (meaning the Soul.) Of a Virgin Paul saith, 
s 1. Corin. 7.  she careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; that is, in body and soul. And writing to the Thessalonians the same Apostle saith that their 
t 1. Thess. 5. vers. 23.  whole Spirit, and Soul, and Body may be kept blameless unto the coming of the Lord jesus Christ. Of this place diverse have diversly thought. 
u In 1. Thess. 5. vers. 23.  chrysostom, Theodoret, Ambrose, Jerome, Oecumenius, and Theophylact, commenting on these words, take the spirit for the grace of God's spirit, wherewith our minds are lightened and renewed; and indeed sometimes Paul useth the word spirit, for the gifts of the spirit, as where he saith, 
x 1. Thess. 5.  Quench not the spirit; and calleth them our spirits, as the 
y 1. Cor. 14.  Spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets. Howbeit 
z Athanasius de common essentia patru filii & spir. san●…ts.  Athanasius, 
a Tertullian de resurrectione ca●….  Tertullian, 
b Epiphan in Anchorato.  Epiphanius, 
c Nyssenu●…de de opificio homin●…. cap. 8.  Gregory Nyssene, 
d August de origine animae ad Vincentium. l. ●…. cap. 22.  Augustine, 
e In 1. Thess. c 5 v 23.  Bede, and others, take here the spirit for the understanding and mind of man; as also 
e In 1. Thess. c 5 v 23.  calvin, 
e In 1. Thess. c 5 v 23.  Zanchius and 
e In 1. Thess. c 5 v 23.  Beza do; who refer the soul here spoken of, to the will and affections of man; not that any of them maketh two souls in man, which were most absurd, but that by those names they note two different faculties or functions in one and the same substance of man's soul.  
Come now to your words and see how handsomely you proportion them, either to your Authors, or to the truth, or to your purpose. Not one of the Fathers which you cite, nameth the mind of Christ, but only his soul and his body, save Nazianzen; who speaketh not of Christ's suffering in the mind, but of his sanctifying the same, by assuming it in his incarnation. Let himself explain his own words in the very same place. 
f Nazianzepistoia. 1. ad Ciedonium.  Our mind (some say) is condemned. And what our flesh? is not that also condemned? then either cast away man's flesh (from Christ) for sin, or admit man's mind, that it may be saved. For if Christ take the worse part (of man) to sanctific it by his incarnation, shall he not take the better part, that it may be sanctified, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, by his assuming of man's nature? I speak not this, as if it might not safely be granted, that Christ's soul suffered as well by his mind, as by his sense, and you nothing the nearer to your purpose of his suffering hell pains in mind from the immediate hand of God; but to let the Reader see how you catch at Fathers for an advantage without any show of their words, and when they make against you, you reject with disdain the whole array of them.  
Your dividing of man into his parts, and your resolutions thereupon, are more absurd, and have neither truth, learning, nor common understanding in them. Of man (to show your exactness) you make these parts, ●…e body, the external sensitive part of the soul, the whole spirit, and understanding also. You name here the body, the soul, and the spirit, but so untowardly, that neither yourself, nor any man else can tell how to make them agree. Hath the soul, if you will needs distinguish it from the spirit, no more parts or powers to suffer or to be saved, but the external sensitive part? will you take the soul to be all one with the spirit, and so make the whole spirit, as much as the whole soul? But the Apostle reckoneth the 
g 1. Thess. 5.  whole spirit, the soul and the body, (whose words you would seem to follow) and so severeth the soul from the spirit. But not by the external sensitive part as you do. Again, why add you the understanding also after the whole spirit? As if it were no part thereof, but a different thing from the spirit? But this is your skill, when you come to any matter of importance, to wrap it in ambiguous and confused terms, that it shall be more mastery to understand you, then to refute you. And how cometh it about by your Philosophy, that the sufferings of the soul by and from the body pierce no farther, then into the external senses of the soul? Do the sufferings of the body offend and afflict the powers only, or the substance also of the soul? Is not the very substance of the Soul passable and punishable as well by the powers of sense, as by the affections, and understanding? The actions, passions, powers, and faculties of the soul, are they not all grounded on and seated in the substance of the soul, so that from thence all the actions thereof must proceed, therein all the passions thereof must be received, and thereon all the faculties thereof depend? Are you so learned in logic, that you will bring us passions without a subject, or powers and faculties without a substance? Whether it be therefore by the understanding, will, affections, or sense, that the soul suffereth; the substance thereof suffereth by those powers and means, and not any part thereof; for so much as the substance of the soul is not divisible into parts as being a spirit, though the powers and faculties thereof may be distinguished, and called parts. Then is it a strange position of yours that the sensitive part suffereth, or that the understanding suffereth, and not the soul by either of them, when indeed the substance of the soul suffereth by or from her power or faculties of sense, understanding, and will, which are the means that God hath made to impress pain on the soul. For the understanding, which you call the mind, is no more a several substance in the soul, than the power of sense is: and the soul not only discerneth particular things by her faculty of sense, as she doth consequent and general things by her faculty of reason, but by the ears and eyes she heareth the word, and beholdeth the works of God, whence cometh information of faith and truth.  
Of the understanding Epiphanius saith. 
h Epiphanius contra Here●…im. 77.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 etc. I think not our mind to be any substance of itself, neither hath any of the children of the Church so thought; but to be an effectual power or operation given of God, and abiding in us. Of the sense Tertullian saith. 
i Tertullian de anima. cap. 8.  Anima perinde per corpus corporalia sentit, quemadmodum per animam incorporalia intelligit. The soul perceiveth corporal things by the sense, even as she doth understand incorporal things by the mind. And showing how both those powers depend on the soul, he addeth. Sit nunc & potior sensu intellectus, dummodo & ipse propria vis animae quod & sensus. Let the understanding excel the sense, so that it be a proper faculty of the Soul, as the sense is. Of the passions of Christ's Soul Fulgentius writeth; 
k Fulgentius ad Trasimundum cap. 3.  Nunc ostendendum nobis est passionem tristitiae, maeroris, taedij & timoris, ad animae substantiam propriè pertinere. Now must we show that the passion of sorrow, heaviness, and loathing of hart, and fear (which our Saviour felt) pertain properly to the substance of the soul. And at the length concluding that 
l Ibidem.  the flesh of itself can neither have life, nor sense, nor sorrow, nor desire, nor fear, nor mourning, he saith; 
l Ibidem.  Haec ergo cuncta in anima, quam susceperat, pertulit Christus, ut veram totamque in se cum suis infirmitatibus hominis demonstraret accepti substantiam. All these (passions) Christ endured in his soul which he took, that he might show in himself THE TRUE AND WHOLE SUBSTANCE of a man with his infirmities.  
The purpose for which you pretend so many Fathers is as idle, as all the rest: for 
Christ's Soul suffered by all her powers but not the death of the Soul.  the Soul of Christ might suffer by her senses, by her affections, by her understanding and will, and yet not suffer the pains of hell, nor the death of the soul, which is your doctrine. Though therefore the Fathers do say that the soul of Christ suffered in his death and passion, which is a thing I never doubted of, much less called in question; yet neither avouch they, it suffered your hell pains, neither from the immediate hand of God, as your device leadeth; which things are as strange to them, as those they never heard of.  

m Defenc. pa. 48. li. 23.  By the Fathers, Christ suffered exactly all and whatsoever sorrows and pains, which we should have suffered, as well spiritual as corporal, as well in all the powers of the soul subject to suffering, as in that which suffered always with and from the body. This if you would prove by the Fathers themselves, and not by your false translating and misapplying their words, which otherwise have no such thing, you said somewhat. You have raked together some places alleged 
n Sermo. pa. 25.  formerly by me, or formerly refuted by me, and out of them you would make fresh shows, if you could tell how. There is only one place of Cyrill, taken out of my Sermons by you, (as you do the rest of your authorities) which hath general terms apt to be wrested by you, and forced against the Author's mind, which you forget not to strain to the uttermost: the rest are miserably racked, without cause or colour, from the Father's minds and words. Cyrill saith, 
o Cyrillus Thesaur. li. 10. cap. 3.  Omnia Christus perpessus est, ut nos ab omnibus liberaret. Christ suffered all things, that he might free us from all; where the word ALL is found, which you make the ground of all your descant: but thereby it plainly appeareth you take not the pains to read the Father's words in the places where they are written, but rashly catch at them to serve your turn, without all respect to the antecedents or consequents, which would declare the writer's meaning. In that Chapter whence these words are taken, Cyrill treateth not of the punishments which Christ suffered for our sins, but of the passions and infirmities of our nature; ALL WHICH Christ received, and suffered to rise in himself, that they might be repressed by him, and our nature reform. And therefore in those words, Christ suffered all to free us from all; cyril evidently meaneth all the natural infirmities and passions of our flesh. And those are his express words twice or thrice in that Chapter. 
p Cyrill. Thesaur●…. li. 10. cap. 3.  When thou hearest, (saith he) that Christ wept, feared, and sorrowed, acknowledge him to be a true man, and ascribe these things to the nature of man. For Christ took a mortal body subject to all the passions of our nature, sin always excepted. And again. 
q Cyrillus ibid.  How cometh it to pass, that these men know not, that all these things must be applied to man's nature (in Christ) which he truly took unto him with all the passions thereof, but still without sin. And the very recollection of the words which you stand on, convinceth Cyrill spoke of the natural passions and infirmities of our flesh. For when he had exemplified his general words, Christ suffered all to free us from all, by death, fear, and sorrow, which are natural to our corrupt condition; he concludeth, 
r Ibidem.  & it a singulas passiones carnis fuisse in Christo absque peccato commotas invenies, ut commotae vincerentur, & natura nostra reformaretur ad melius. AND LIKEWISE ALL THE PASSIONS (or affections) of our flesh shalt thou find moved in Christ, but without sin, that being moved they might be repressed, and our nature reform to the better. What is this to hell pains, which I trow are no natural infirmities or affections in man, or to the proper sufferings of the soul, which you would hence establish; since here is no mention but of the natural infirmities and affections of the flesh, which cyril calleth the passions thereof, as both Divines and Philosophers do?  
‛ Thus I take Bernard's meaning to be (when he saith) Christ spared not himself, who 
Defenc. pa. 48. li. 12.  knoweth how to spare his.] Your taking may soon show you to be a wilful mistaker, but it concludeth nothing for your cause. Doth Bernard say that Christ suffered hell pains, and therein spared not himself? you would feign have him say so, but he is as far from it, as you are near it. Bernard in that Chapter which you cite, but never saw; (for you went no farther for all your authorities, than my sermons,) speaketh of the sixth and seventh time Christ shed his blood for us; and when he cometh to the piercing of Christ's hands and his feet with spikes of iron to fasten him to the cross; wondering at Christ's patience and love towards us, that endured such things for us, he saith; God which either 
t Bernard. de passione Domini. cap. 41.  shorteneth, lighteneth, or taketh from his servants the force of their torments, did in nothing ease unto himself the winepress of his passion: he spared not himself, that knoweth how to spare his. Doth this conclude that Christ suffered the pains of hell? or that he shed his blood unto death for us, not sparing himself, (from that, or, in that, which he suffered) though it were painful and grievous to him? But, I myself confess that Christ 
u S●…rm. pa. 7.  suffered and endured all to the uttermost with exact obedience and patience.] Even as Bernard favoured your untoward fancies, and said nothing for them, so do I: but do either Bernard's words or mine import, that Christ suffered all, which else we should have suffered, as you interlace Cyrils words to make them sound somewhat to your purpose? are you so silly that you can not, or so sly that you will not see the plain seams of human speech? If a man should say you affirm all things boldly, you prove all things weakly, you translate all things corruptly: Do his words imply, that you translate Euclid and Aristotle? that you prove the roundness of the earth, and the bigness of the Sun? or that you affirm the sea burneth, and the Moon melteth? Is it not the usual course of all speech and speakers, when they express how things are done, to restrain the word all with a relation to the same person and action, whereof they spoke? as you affirm all things (which you affirm) boldly, you prove all, (that you prove) weakly; and you translate all (whatsoever you translate) corruptly. Doth not the Scripture observe the like? The people said of Christ, 
x Mark. 7.  he hath done all things well. Will you infer, that Christ made ships, built Towers, cast Led, and did whatsoever, because he did all things well? or did they intend, that whatsoever he did, he did it well? 
y john. 1.  The true light saith Saint john lighteneth every man, that cometh into the world. Where if you take all men without exception, you plant a palpable error upon Saint john's words; if you restrain them to all (that are lightened) his speech is a manifest truth in Christ, and an excellent honour to Christ. So said I of Christ, that he suffered all, (that he suffered) with exact obedience and patience; not expressing there what he suffered, but how he suffered, to wit obediently and patiently. Which words of mine give you no great cause of advantage, if you look well unto them, and abuse them not after your idle manner. But such poor shifts you are forced to seek to set some colour on your cause; which otherwise would bewray itself to want all good grounds and proofs.  
As you deal with me, so you do with Tertullian, Ambrose, jerom, Cyprian, and Cyrill, whose words partly you mistranslate, partly you misconstrue, and build upon them what best pleaseth yourself without any precedence or sequence of their text. Tertullian saith; 
z Tertul. adverse. Praxeam cap. 30.  sic reliquit, dum non parcit. So God left his Son, whiles he spared him not. If this make for you, why quote you not the Apostle Paul as one of your partners, who spoke the word before Tertullian, and whom Tertullian citeth by name for that word? God 
a Rom. 8.  spared not his own Son, saith Paul, but delivered him for us all. This place you baulked; because it expoundeth Gods not sparing his Son by delivering him; (for God spared not his Son, but delivered him; that is, God did not spare him from delivering;) and also for that it excludeth your imagination of God's immediate hand tormenting the soul of his Son, with the substance of hell pains. For if God delivered his Son for us all, he delivered him to others, and not to himself; and consequently your dream of God's immediate hand inflicting hell pains on the soul of his Son, is against the Apostles words, God delivered his Son. Which Christ himself expoundeth very often in the Gospel, saying; 
b Matth. 17.  The Son of man shallbe delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him. And again, 
c Matth. 26. vers. 2.  The Son of man shall be delivered to be crucified; and immediately before his apprehension; 
d Matth. 26. vers. 45.  Behold the hour is come, the Son of man is delivered into the hands of sinners. This delivering of Christ into the hands of men to be crucified, was the not sparing him, which the Apostle meant; and was that forsaking, which Christ testified on the Cross, as Tertullian thinketh. 
e Tertul. adverse. Praxeam. cap. 30.  Filium dereliquit, dum hominem eius tradit in mortem. Hoc & Apostolus sensit, scribens, si pater Filio non pepercit. Sic reliquit, dum non parcit; sic reliquit, dum tradit. Ceterum non reliquit pater filium, in cuius manibus Filius spiritum suum posuit. Denique posuit, & statim obijt. Spiritu enim manente in carne, caro omnino mori non potest. Ita relinqui á patre, mori fuit filio. God left (or forsook his Son (as Christ complained on the Cross) whiles he delivered his human nature unto death. This the Apostle meant when he wrote, if God spared not his Son. So God left him, whiles he spared him not; so God left him, whiles he delivered him. Otherwise the Father forsook not the Son, into whose hands the Son commended his spirit. He laid it down and presently died. For while the spirit abideth in the flesh, the flesh can not die at all. Then to be left of the Father, was as much in the Son, as to die. Here are Tertullia's words in order as they stand. Where first he maketh the Son to die, when he laid down his soul into his Father's hands. This death, by which the soul of Christ departed from his body, was that delivering, that not sparing, which Paul meant; and that forsaking which Christ spoke of on the cross. What find you here for the pains of Hell, or for the proper sufferings of the soul? You may pervert any man's words, if you will, but of themselves these are very coherent and evident.  
In Ambrose you find more hold. He saith: Minus contulerat mihi, nisimeum suscepisset 
f Defenc. pag. 48. li. 17.  affectum. Christ had done less for me if he had not been (altogether) affected, as I should have been.] Though you be no good concluder, yet are you a notable translator. For you can turn the English not only clean from, but quite against the Latin. Where Ambrose saith, Christ had done less for me, (if taking my nature unto him) he had not also taken my (natural) affection unto him) as fear, sorrow, and such like; you misconstrue affection for punishment, and mine, that is naturally mine, for that which I should have suffered in hell; and adding the word (altogether) of your own, you make Ambrose say; that Christ was altogether affected (that is punished in soul) as I should have been, (in hell) if I had not been redeemed. But by what Grammar doth affectus signify hell pains? Fear, grief, and sorrow, are natural affections in all men, and passions of the soul; they signify not in their own nature the torments of the damned. How shall we know this to be Ambrose meaning? He that hath but half an eye, may see by that whole Chapter the root of this sorrow, to be the infirmity of our nature in Christ, and the cause thereof to be his compassion and pity had of us, and for us. The next words to those which you bring, are. 
g Ambros. in Luc. li. 10. de tristitia & dolere Christ's.  Ergo pro me doluit, qui pro se nihil habuit quod doleret. And presently, taedio meae infirmitatis afficitur. Christ therefore sorrowed for me, who had nothing in himself for which he should sorrow; he is affected with the tediousness of my infirmity. The tediousness of our infirmity affected him, not the torments of hell suffered in his own soul. 
h Ibidem.  Neque speciem incarnationis suscepit, sed veritatem. Debuit ergo & dolorem suscipere, ut vinceret tristitiam, non excluderet. Christ took upon him not the show, but the truth of our flesh. He was therefore to feel grief, (as a consequent to our nature) that he might overcome sorrow, and not exclude it. 
i Ibidem.  Tristis est non ipse, sed anima. Suscepit enim animam meam, suscepit corpus meum. Anima obnoxia passionibus. Christ was sorrowful not in person, but in soul. For he took unto him my soul, and my body. Now the soul it is, that is subject to passions. Is hell with you of late become a natural infirmity and affection, that wheresoever you read either of these words, you straight infer the pains of hell? The causes of Christ's sorrow will put all out of doubt, and are plainly recited by Ambrose in the end of this Chapter, though stiffly rejected by you, because they sort not with your conceits. 
k Ibid.  Tristis videbatur, & tristis erat, non pro sua passione, sed pro nostra dispersione. Christ seemed sorrowful, and indeed was sorrowful, not for his own suffering, but for our dispersing. You say Christ's sorrow was for the suffering of hell pains in his soul; Ambrose saith in express words; Christ sorrowed not for his own suffering: which of you twain shall we think best understood Ambrose meaning? himself, or you? Christ, sorrowed, saith Ambrose, 
l Ambros. ibid.  for our dispersion; he sorrowed because he left us orphans, he sorrowed for his persecutors. All these occasions of sorrow in Christ at the time of his passion mentioned by Ambrose you utterly disaverre, and in spite of Ambrose teeth, you will have the infirmity and affection of man's nature in Christ to signify hell.  
Yet Ierom shall help at a need, who saith; 
m Defenc. pa. 44. li. 20.  That which we should have borne for our sins, the same (Christ) suffered for us.] You might have done well to have put quicquid for quod, as one of your fellows hath done alleging this place, that where Ierom would not say, Christ suffered for us, whatsoever we should have suffered, yourselves may speak it in his name. Neither is it so strange a thing with you to translate all for some. In the very next Page before, citing Ambrose words, hoc in se obtulit Christus, quod induit; Christ offered that in himself, which he took (of us;) you render it, Christ offered in sacrifice 
n Defenc. pa. 47. li. 17.  ALL that which he assumed; which translation is evidently false, whatsoever the illation be. This place of jerom I have already answered in the 
o Pag. 350.  conclusion of my Sermons; and but that the book happily will not always be at hand, I would spend no more words therein. The particular can not hurt me, if it be simply granted; and the general is not affirmed by jerom. Howbeit jerom in plain speech presently expresseth what he meant Christ suffered for us. By this (saith he) 
p Hiero. in Esa. cap. 53.  it is manifest, that as Christ's body whipped and torn bare the prints of the stripes and wrongs, so his soul truly sorrowed for us. What need we any other exposition than his own, that Christ suffered for us smart of body and grief of mind, which were due to us in this world where Christ suffered for us, besides the torments of the next world, where Christ neither did, nor could suffer any thing?  
Cyprians words are far weaker for your purpose, & wider fro your matter. He saith, Christ was called sin, and a curse; 
q Cypria. de passione Christi.  pro similitudine poenae, non culpae; for the likeness of punishment, not of fault: LIKE is far less than the same. If therefore Christ's punishment were but like, there is no necessity it should be the same. Again, when Cyprian nameth the likeness of our punishment suffered by Christ on the cross; he meaneth the punishment of sin, that God inflicted on Adam, and all his offspring in this life, where Christ suffered for us, as sorrow, shame, reproach, pain, and death which were the punishments that God laid on Adam's transgression in this life. The death of the Soul Adam pulled on himself by sinning; that Christ suffered not: the other God inflicted with his own mouth, and by them accursed and punished sin in this world, reserving his terrible and eternal judgements, which are the pains of hell, to an other time and place, when the bodies of the wicked should be altered and abled to endure those intolerable and everlasting torments, threatened, but not executed in this world. The first kind of punishment due to all men in this life for sin, Cyprian saw and knew full well, and by the Scriptures found that to be in Christ on the Cross; the pains of hell Cyprian knew not, much less could he be sure that Christ suffered them, since no such thing is mentioned in the Scriptures. Let then the Reader judge, whether Cyprian were likely to speak of that, which he knew and read, or rashly to pronounce that to be like, which he neither knew nor read. But if Cyprian be the fittest man to declare his own meaning, Cyprian even in that place speaketh directly against your supposed pains of hell, suffered in the soul of Christ on the Crosse. Admiror te cruci inter damnatos affixum, iam nec tristem, nec pavidum, 
r Cypria. ibid.  sed suppliciorum victorem elevatis manibus triumphantem de Amelec. I admire thee, o Lord, being once fastened to the Cross amidst the condemned (thieves) to be now neither sorrowful, nor fearful, but despising the punishments (laid on thee) with thine hands lifted up to triumph over Amelec, (the enemies of God's people.) If Christ once fastened to the Cross had neither sorrow nor fear, but a neglect of his pains, and a joyful triumph over all his foes, I trust he felt not the pains of hell; which were very easy, if they brought with them neither sorrow, nor fear, but rather contempt and triumph.  
Christ feared before in the garden, you will say, and for fear or pain did sweat blood.] That Cyprian remembreth and explaineth, wherein you shall see the difference betwixt his judgement and yours of Christ's sufferings. 
s Cypria. ibid.  Thou didst Lord (saith he) profess before thine Apostles thyself to be sorrowful unto death, and for exceeding grief didst pour forth a bloody sweat. Hearing this (in the gospel) I was utterly abashed. For who will not fear, if be fear whom all things fear? His answer I will set down in Latin, though it will be the longer, as well to let the Reader hear Cyprians resolution in his own words, which many will desire, and to discharge myself from all quarrels of mistranslating, whiles I sometimes seek to make that plain to the simple, which in the text is more dark and obscure; as for divers other respects, which I will after mention, when Cyprians mind is fully known. His words are, 
t Cypria. de passione in initio.  Sed metus ille infirmitatis humanae communem exprimebat affectum, & generalitatem omnium in carne viventium hoc dolore urgeri, & dissolutionem corporeae spiritualisque naturae hac molestia non posse career, & hanc poenam universae successioni Adam sine exceptione impositam, ut difficultas extremi transit us timeretur. Hanc nemo anxietatem evasit, & nemo egrediente anima sine amaritudine expiravit. But that fear (of thine o Lord) did express the common affection of man's infirmity, and the general state of all living in the flesh to be pressed with this sorrow; and that the separation of body and soul can not be free from this grief, but this punishment is laid on all Adam's posterity without exception, that the difficulty of departing this life should be feared: this woefulness no man ever escaped, neither did ever any man breath out his soul without bitterness.  
Here you may learn; first, whence Ambrose, who was a great follower of Cyprian, took his words of human infirmity and affection, and what he meant by them. Secondly, that this is a punishment (which you deny) laid by God himself on all mankind, to fear and feel death separating the soul from the body. Thirdly, from this was no man ever exempted, but even Christ himself, though he were free from that necessity, yet would he be partaker of this our infirmity. Fourthly, that where on the cross Christ neither feared nor sorrowed, but showed himself terrible to his persecutors, and a conqueror of all their malice, and a triumpher over all their injuries, yet to his Disciples in the garden he opened his affection incident to our nature, thereby to confirm himself to be a true man by his taking as well our infirmities, as our flesh. Lastly out of Cyprian in that Sermon you may learn, that to Christ the 
u Cypria. ibid.  sight of (God) his Father could not be formidable, that it was his Fathers will the sacrifice of his flesh should begin with fear and sorrow, that he sorrowed to heal our weakness, and feared to make us secure, by repressing those infirmities in his own person, to cure them in us for ever after. All these and many more good lessons you clean overslip in Cyprian, and broaching a new doctrine quite contrary to his, you lay violent hands on one poor word in that whole treaty, which yet maketh nothing for you; and as though you had performed a worthy work, grossly to mistake the like for the same, you muster Cyprian as a maintainer of your new made hell.  

x Defence pag. 47. li. 24.  Say as Fulgentius saith, and we ask no more. Quicquid fuit infirmitatis animae, sine peccato suscepit & pertulit. Christ took upon him and suffered whatsoever infirmity may be in the soul without sin.] I hope you will yourself accept the condition, which you offer to others, and I require no more. But what is there in these words on which you so stoutly stand, and so confidently crack, that helpeth your device forward? Grant them absolutely, and what conclude you? The grief of hell pains suffered from the immediate hand of God, is an infirmity of the soul, you must say; if you will say any thing towards the matter you have in hand. But who ever said so, that knew his left hand from his right? What passing dullness and surpassing drowsiness is this, to make the suffering of hell pains from the immediate hand of God an infirmity of the soul? As if it were weakness in man, not to be stronger than God; or imbecility, not to be able to resist his power? [Fear and sorrow are infirmities; and Fulgentius saith whatsoever infirmity, that is whatsoever fear, or sorrow may be in the soul, the same Christ took and suffered.] These must be your collections, if you open your mouth to make any; and these be so gross, that no boy would engage himself with them. For the name of Infirmity doth naturally note the special kinds thereof, by which they differ from other things that are not infirmities; it doth not import either degrees, to which they may grow; or the causes, from whence they may rise. Is it then any consequent, that if Christ took upon him all kinds of infirmities, and passions of the soul, he must therefore undergo all degrees, and all the causes of fear and sorrow, that may be in the soul? Christ did fear, and Christ did sorrow; for those without question were infirmities of his human soul. Will it thence follow that Christ suffered all those dangers, losses, harms, which men in this life do, and may fear? If these will no way follow upon Fulgentius words, how will the pains of hell be thence derived, which I utterly deny to be any infirmity in man's soul, since no creature is so strong, though he were an Angel, as to decline, or resist the hand of God in punishing? Fulgentius words therefore, that Christ took unto him every infirmity of the soul, do not infer that Christ suffered every degree, or every object of fear and sorrow, but only that he feared and sorrowed, which maketh as much for your hell pains, as feathers do to rear a fortress.  
The words of Fulgentius at your best advantage do you little good; his true meaning doth you far less. For going onward to debate this matter more at large, he addeth two conditions to the infirmities and affections of Christ's soul: the one that they were natural, that is necessarily consequent to the nature of man; the other that they were voluntary in Christ, though in us they be necessary. These limitations are very often in that Book expressed, whence your words are taken. 
y Fulgentius de passione Domini ad Trasimundun lib. 3.  Animae tristitiam & perturbationem, quam voluntariam in anima Dei filius habuit sic habuisse credatur, ut etiam ipsas humanae animae passiones, & voluntate veras, & in veritate voluntarias non n●…gemus. The sorrow and trouble of soul which the Son of God had voluntarily in his soul, he must be believed so to have had, that we done them not to be true, because they were voluntary; nor to be voluntary, because they were true. This he maketh common to body and soul. 
z Ibidem.  Quia verum hominem suscepit, ideo cunctas humanae naturae infirmitates veras quidem, sed voluntarias in eadem veritate naturae duntaxat humanae sustinuit. Because Christ took upon him to be a true man, therefore he sustained ALL the true infirmities of man's nature, but yet voluntary in the truth of the same nature only. If you know not what natural and voluntary passions in Christ's manhood do mean, you may learn of Damascene, whom an adherent of yours much esteemeth, and often allegeth, though Damascene make nothing for his or your purposes. We confess, saith Damascene, that Christ took unto him 
a Damascenus orthodox. fides lib. 3. cap. 20.  ALL NATURAL AND BLAMELESS passions. For he assumed the whole man, and all that pertained to man, save sin. Natural and blameless passions are those, which are not in our power, and whatsoever entered into man's life, through the condemnation of (adam's) sin, as hunger, thirst, weakness, labour, weeping, corruption, shunning of death, fear, agony, whence (came) sweat and drops of blood. These things are in all men by nature. Christ therefore took all these unto him, that he might sanctify them all. Howbeit our natural passions were in Christ according to nature, and above nature. According to nature they were stirred up in Christ, when he permitted his flesh to endure that which was proper unto it. Above nature (they were in Christ) because nature in him did never go●… before his will. For there was nothing forced in him, but all things voluntary. When he would he hungered, when he would he thirsted, when he would he feared; when he would he died. The natural infirmities and passions then, which Christ took unto him, as Damascene teacheth, were common to all men by nature, and so are not the pains of hell; they were in this life, so a●… not the other; they were sanctified, so cannot the torments of hell be; they were voluntary, that is, they moved not in Christ, but at his own will. Wherefore by Damascenes judgement, Christ did not suffer your hellish torture from the immediate hand of God, by which he was wholly amazed and overwhelmed, as you say, with the weight and anguish of them, which could not be with his will.  
I have stood to Fulgentius words, more than which you did not ask; will you now likewise be tried by Fulgentius testimony, whether you teach an error exiled from all Christian hearts in his age? Or if you will not, your Reader will soon perceive, that what was then rejected for an absurdity and falsity, (I will spare heavier terms till I come to fuller proofs) can not now be professed as piety. Touching Christ's death by which we are redeemed, that it had in it neither the death of the soul, nor the pains of hell, Fulgentius is very plain even in the same book, where you would have him so much forget himself, as to speak the contrary. 
b Fulgentius ad Trasimundum lib. 3.  Quis ignoret Christum nec divinitate, sed in solo corpore mortuum & sepultum? Who can be ignorant (if he be a Christian) that Christ died and was buried not in his divinity, but only in body? and again, 
c Ibidem.  In morte solius carnis immortalis fuit. Christ was immortal, nothing dying in him but his flesh. And so 
d Ibidem.  Cum sola caro moreretur & resuscitaretur in Christo, filius Dei dicitur mortuus. When only the flesh died and was raised again in Christ, yet the Son of God is said to have died. And as though no repeating were sufficient; 
e Ibidem.  In tota (humanitate) traditus idem Christus, secundum solam carnem mortuus, secundum solam carnem de sepulcho surrexit. The same Christ delivered in his whole (humanity) died in his flesh only, and rose again only in his flesh. And lest you should wrench aside, as you afterward do, that the name of Christ's flesh containeth soul and body; besides that the word body directly excludeth the soul, which can not be the body; and so doth the burial and resurrection of Christ, for so much as the soul of Christ neither was, neither could be buried nor raised from the grave; Fulgentius in full and fair words exempteth not only the deity, but the soul of Christ as well as the deity from death. 
f Fulgentius eodem libro.  Moriente carne non solum deitas, sed nec anima Christi potest ostendi commortua. When Christ died in the flesh, neither can the godhead, nor the soul of Christ be showed to have been also dead. And of hell pains he saith, 
g Ibidem.  Dignum fuit, ut animam dolor non contigisset inferni, quam servitus nequivit tenere peccati. It was a meet (and right) thing that the pains of hell should not touch that soul, whom the servitude of sin could not fasten on.  
Yet cyril in the place above cited 
h Defenc. pag. 48. li. 35.  SEEMETH to acknowledge A KIND OF DEATH EVEN OF THE SOUL, from which Christ revived again. But of that in due place hereafter.] Is the death of Christ's soul so slender a matter, that you may collect it by a seeming, and a kind of death, without any mention, or occasion of any such thing comprised in Cyrils words? The Reader may there observe what your main intent is, and whereon you fasten your eyes all this while, even on the death of Christ's soul to be requisite for our Redemption, though you find no such thing in Scripture or Father; but miserably and childishly slide it in at last with a seeming. Now if there be no such thing in Cyrils words, nor any such seeming, how well deserve you to be hissed out with hands, if not to be hurled out by the heels, for a seeming sleeper, if not for a waking dreamer? what are those words of cyril, that seem to acknowledge the death of Christ's soul? Christ bestowed his flesh as a ransom for our flesh, and made his soul likewise the price of redemption for our souls, although he lived again, being by nature life itself. It is lawful for you to further every place you bring, with a mained and forced translation. Cyrils true words stand thus: 
i Cyril. ad Theodosium de rectafide.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Without constraint of any, Christ of himself laid down his own soul for us, that he might be Lord of dead and quick: yielding his flesh in recompense, as a gift fully worth it, for the flesh of all, and making his soul (or life) a ransom for the soul (or life) of all, though he revived again, being life by nature, in that he was God. The words which you would cite, are here no perfect sentence, as having no principal verb in them, and therefore must be joined with the former and depend upon the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (Christ laid down his soul) which governeth the whole; as appear also by the two participles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, yielding in recompense, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, making, which must be directed by the same nominative case that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is, and likewise by the opposition of the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he revived. Of what death Cyrill here speaketh, is more than manifest by the words of our Saviour here used and derived from the Gospel, where he said, 
k john 10.  None taketh my soul from me, or constraineth me to die, I lay it down of myself; and likewise, 
l Matth. 20.  the Son of man came to give his soul (or life) a ransom for many. What kind of death those words of Christ imported, I made it appear but a little before by the full consent of Scriptures and interpreters old and new, and of Cyrill himself, who all with one accord refer both those sayings to the death of Christ's body, and the loss of his life on the Cross, when his soul departed from him. Set that down in Cyrils first words for the death which Christ died by the constant assertion of Scriptures, Fathers, New writers, and of Cyrill himself; and then the words which you allege show plainly the force of his corporal death to be available for the bodies and souls of all men, in that his flesh yielded to death was a recompense or exchange for all men's flesh; and his soul laid down without constraint of any, was the ransom of all men's souls; and he notwithstanding rose again the third day to life by his own power, as being God and life itself, against whom death could prevail no farther, nor longer, than he himself would.  
Where are the words that acknowledge the death of Christ's Soul, or that so much as seem to acknowledge a kind of death in the soul of Christ? Here are the clean contrary. For if the death of Christ's body, by which he laid aside his soul for us, be sufficient to redeem the bodies and souls of all men, then superfluous and needless even by these words was the death of Christ's soul, the whole being fully performed without it. But he gave his flesh to be a ransom for our flesh, and his soul for our souls, you say, and yet lived again.] Cyrill doth not say by several deaths, but by one and the same death, which was the laying down of his soul or life for us, as Christ himself in the Gospel said he would. If those words infer the death of Christ's soul, why bring you not the words of Christ himself, saying; 
m Matth. 20.  The Son of man came to give his soul a ransom for many. You saw the Scriptures themselves and the whole Church of Christ, first and last, I mean all old and new writers, translators and expositors would condemn your folly therein, in most exact words taking soul there for life, which must needs import the death of Christ's body. And therefore you thought it more safety to catch at the same words in some Father, for whose meaning there could not be brought so many, and so sound deponents. But all in vain. For if Christ had no meaning in those words to point out the death of his own soul, than Cyrill alleging and observing the words of Christ, can have no such purpose as to cross the Scriptures, himself, and all the Fathers of Christ's Church in a matter so dangerous and desperate, as the death of Christ's soul amounteth unto. In the mean while his words conclude no such thing, neither in saying nor in seeming; and so your embracing them to that end, argueth your good will to seek, but your evil luck to find any such thing as the death of Christ's soul in all the Fathers.  
Cyrill doth not say Christ rose again, which properly belongeth to the body, but he revived or lived again which seemeth to be spoken of the Soul.] Then Saint Paul maketh more for you, than Cyrill doth: for he affirmeth both os Christ; to this end (saith he) Christ died, and rose again, and revived, that he might be Lord of dead and living. And indeed resurrection properly noteth from whence Christ arose, to wit from the grave; reviving expresseth the blessed and glorious life which he enjoyed, after he was risen from the dead. Christ himself saith of his, they shall come forth (of their graves) 
n joh. 5. v. 29.  unto the resurrection of life, to separate them from the wicked who shall come likewise forth unto the resurrection, but of judgement and condemnation. Notwithstanding in Christ there is either no difference betwixt them, the one ever implying the other; or if we make any, Christ's reviving always presupposeth his Resurrection as antecedent, since he possessed not that immortal and heavenly life, which now he hath, but upon his arising from the dead. And so the Apostle placeth them, Christ died, and rose again, and revived (into such power and glory, that he was) made Lord over dead and quick. And Cyrill who often times useth this word (he revived) of Christ, meaneth the third day after Christ's death, when the Scriptures affirm he rose from the grave. So Cyrill and the Synod of Alexandria that joined with him in writing unto Nestorius say of Christ. 
o Epist. Cyrilli & Synod Alex. ad Nestorium.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he revived the third day having spoiled hell; and so in his second confession of the true faith to the religious Queens, 
p Cyrill de fide ad Reginas li. 2.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Christ spoiling death revived the third day. And in his Epistle to those of Egypt. Christ is said (in the Scriptures) first to have died as a man, 
q cyril epist. ad Presbyt. & mo●…ch Egypt.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and after that to have returned to life, by that which he was by Nature. If then he died not in the flesh according to the Scriptures, he was not quickened by the Spirit, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that is he revived not again. So that Cyrill hath not any seeming words for the death of Christ's Soul; but saith as Christ said in effect before, that the Son of man gave his (soul or) life to be a ransom for the life of all, and not for the Soul of all, which in the singular number is neither good English, nor good Divinity, though to smooth it, you put the plural and say, for our souls, which is not in Cyrill.  
The words of Ambrose will prove that Christ offered his Soul for us; 
r Defenc. pa. 47. li. 17.  hoc in se obtulit Christus quod induit. Christ offered in Sacrifice all that which he assumed.] Besides that you falsify Ambrose by adding ALL to his words, which have no such thing in them, you ●…est Ambroses words against Ambroses meaning. For though it may well be granted, that Christ offered body and soul as a Sacrifice of holiness and obedience unto God; and that Christ's Soul likewise was laid down unto the death of his body to feel the smart thereof, and to be severed by the force thereof; in which respect Esay saith, that Christ powered forth his Soul unto death: Yet Ambrose speaking of Christ's sacrifice for the sins of the people, meaneth (as the rest of the Fathers do) that part of the Sacrifice, which was slain; which was by his and their confession, Christ's body, and not Christ's Soul. Hear Ambrose himself 
s Ambros. de fide. li. 3. ca 5.  In quo nisi in corpore, expiavit populi peceata? In quo passus est nisi in corpore? Wherein did Christ sacrifice for the sins of the people, but in his body? wherein did he suffer (death) but in his body? And so Theodoret: Christ was 
t Theodoret. Dialogo. 1.  called a Priest in his human nature, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and offered none other Sacrifice but his own body. Athanasius nameth what Christ put on, and what he offered. 
u Athanasius contra Ar●…anos ●…ratio. 3.  The word of God that made all things, was afterward made an high Priest, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Putting on a body that was borne and made, which he might offer for us. Nazianzen saith to Christ. 
x Nazianzen. in illud Euangelis, Cum consummasset jesus hos sermons.  Thou art a sheep, because thouwast a Sacrifice; thou art an high Priest, because thou offeredst thy body. Augustine also, Sacerdos propter victimam, quam pro nobis offerret, a nobis acceptam. Christ 〈◊〉 a Priest, for the Sacrifice, he took of us, that he might offer it for us. What that Sacrifice was he showeth saying: 
z Idem in Psal. 64.  Assumpsit a nobis, quod offerret Domino; ipsas diximus sanctas primitias carnis ex utero virgins: Christ took of us that he might offer to the Lord, we mean the holy first fruits of his flesh 
y August. in Psal. 109.  (taken) from the womb of the Virgin. Theophylact; 
a Theophylact in cap. 8 e●…st. ad Hebraeos.  A Priest may by no means be without a Sacrifice. It was then necessary that (Christ) should have somewhat to offer. Quod autem offerretur praeter eius corpus nil quidpiam erat; necessariò ergo & mortuus est. Now there was utterly nothing that he might offer, besides his body; it was needful than he should die.  
This that Christ took a body to offer, is most agreeable to Ambroses mind as well in the book which you cite, as in other parts of his writings. 
b Ambros. de incarnate. Doman. sacramento. ca 6.  Ex segeneravit Maria, Marie conceived of herself, (to wit, of her own body) that what was conceived of her, might be the true nature of a body. And alleging Saint Paul's words; that Christ was made of the seed of David according to the flesh, Rom. 1. and made of a woman, Galat. 4. He concludeth; 
c Ibidem.  Ergo ex nobis accepit, quod proprium offerret pro nobis, ut nos redimeret ex nostro. Then Christ took of us, that which he might offer as his own for us, to the end he might redeem us by that which was ours. And declaring what he meant even by the words, which you bring, Christ offered that in himself which he put on; Ambrose addeth: 
d Ibid.  Non igitur divinitatem induit, sed carnem assumpsit, ut spolium carnis exueret, Christ put not on the nature of his Divinity, but he took flesh that he might put off the spoil of his flesh (when he should die.) Now if the flesh of Christ were subject to all injuries, how say you, that Christ's flesh is of the same substance with his Godhead? What else do you in so saying, but compare Adam's slime and our earth to the Divine substance? Here Ambrose plainly confesseth, what he meant, Christ took unto him, and offered for us; even Adam's slime and our earth, whereof his body was made. Which elsewhere he precisely avoucheth, saying. 
e Ambros in Epist. ad Heb. cap. 10.  Corpus suscepit nostrae mortalitatis, ut pro nobis haberet quid offerret. Christ assumed our mortal body, that he might have what to offer for us.  
And lest you should after your trifling manner, ask whether we exclude an human soul from the body, which Christ took of the substance of his mother, and which he offered for us to death on the Cross, I answer with Ambrose. 
f Ambros. de incarnate. Doman. Sacram. cap. 7.  Cum susceperit carnem hominis, consequens est ut perfectionem incarnationis plenitudinemque susceperit. Nihil enim in Christo imperfectum. Where as Christ took unto him the flesh of a man, it is consequent that he took unto him the perfection and fullness of incarnation; for there is nothing imperfect in Christ. And what need was there, he should take flesh without a Soul, when as an insensible flesh, and an unreasonable soul was neither subject to sin, nor capable of reward? An human soul was a necessary sequel to Christ's body, which he took of the seed of David and substance of his mother, as it is to all ours before we can be men: but the soul is not comprised in the name of the body, much less doth it receive the same conditions and properties which the body doth. Though then I make no doubt, but Christ at his birth and at his death, as all his life long, had both a body and a perfect reasonable and human soul, endued with all the powers, affections and infirmities of man's nature, save sin and the corruption of sin; yet is it no consequent with Ambrose, that Christ's soul was made of a woman as his flesh was, nor that Christ died the death of the soul, when his body died on the Crosse. Let them doubt (saith Ambrose) 
g Ambros. de incarnate. Domin. Sacram. cap. 7.  of that which the Prophet saith (my soul hateth your new Moons and Sabbaths;) This that is testified in the Gospel (therefore the Father loveth me because I lay down my soul to take it again) they can not refute to be spoken of the propriety of the soul, when as it is spoken of the Lords death and resurrection. The body of Christ could not die, but by laying down his soul, as also it could not rise to life, but by taking it again. So that both Christ's death and his resurrection do clearly prove, that he had a true soul as Ambrose noteth, which by his death was severed from his body, and by his resurrection was assumed again into his body. And yet that death was proper to Christ's body and not to his soul; though the soul felt the smart and sting thereof as well before, as when it departed from his body. 
h Tertull. contra Marcionem. li. 5. cap. 9  Corpus est quod amit tit animam, & amittendo fit mortuum; it a mortui vocabulum corpori competit. Porro si resurrectio mortui est, mortuum autem non aliud est quam corpus, corporis erit resurrectio. It is the body (saith Tertullian) that looseth the soul, and by losing it dieth, so that the word, dead, agreeth to the body. Now if the resurrection be of that which was dead, and nothing can be dead besides the body, Resurrection must likewise pertain to the body. This death and this resurrection, I mean of the body, was found in Christ, yours is very strange to Ambrose and to all the Fathers. 
i Ambro. de fide li. 3. cap. 5.  Per quam nisiper corporis mortem, mortis vincula dissoluit? By what other death (saith Ambrose) then by the death of the body, did Christ break the bands of death?  
Thus have you spent your great store of Fathers with small success; and though you dissemble where you borrowed them, yet you dissemble not your excessive bragging of them, as if they were 
k Defenc. pag 49. l. 1.  clean against me, and for you in the chiefest point of this question: where indeed you do but reach after a word in them here and there, and that not rightly conceived, or not rightly translated; from whence you would feign infer your fancies, save that neither the grounds of truth nor learning, will bear you out in your conclusions. That Christ's sufferings did belong to body and soul the Fathers affirm, whether by Sympathy or without Sympathy they say nothing; much less that Christ suffered in mind distinctly from soul or body. Nazianzen saith he assumed man's mind at his incarnation, that thereby he might sanctify it; besides him not one of your places so much as nameth the mind. As for God's immediate hand punishing the soul of Christ, in his passion, if you should fast till you find that in these or any other Fathers, you should fast, not forty days but years. And as though these were not falsities enough to load the Fathers with, you hoist up the top sail of untruth, and flaunt it out, that 
l Defenc. pag. 49. li. 6.  these Fathers say, Christ suffered all these pains, which else we should have suffered, and was spared in nothing: plainly belying your Authors, which say no such thing, and outfacing your Reader, as if his sight did not serve him to sever your shameful additions from the texts of those ancient writers. Cyrill saith, Christ suffered all things (that is, all natural and innocent infirmities and passions of body and soul, as Cyrill explaineth himself in the same Chapter, yea in the close of the very same sentence) to whose words you add of your own, WHICH else we should have suffered. Only, you joined them at first so cunningly to Cyrils sentence having two parts, that a man could not readily tell to which you referred this addition, save that now in the recapitulation of your proofs, you apparently tie them to the former. For if you made cyril to say, Christ suffered to free us from all, which else we should have suffered, that assertion is very true; only, these last words are yours and not Cyrils. If you make him to say, Christ suffered all, which else we should have suffered, this hath neither truth in it, nor any colour in Cyrils' text. Jerome indeed saith, Christ suffered that which we ought to have suffered, meaning, what Christ suffered, was due to us, and not to him; but Jerome is far from your all, which else we should have suffered.  
Your sleight then in collecting your conceits from the Father's sayings, is worth the observing. Nazianzen saith, Christ in his incarnation assumed man's mind to sanctify it. Cyrill saith, Christ SUFFERED ALL the infirmities and passions of man's nature. Jerome saith: That which was due to us for our sins, Christ suffered for us. And Tertullian saith, God spared not his own Son, but delivered him for us, that is, God spared him not from delivering. Out of these four places, having different causes, ends, and respects, for which, to which, & in which they were written, you clout this conclusion, as common to them all, which is repugnant to every one of them; that Christ IN MIND (so saith Nazianzen) SUFFERED ALL, (so saith cyril) WHICH WAS DUE TO US, (so saith Jerome) WITHOUT SPARING, (so saith Tertullian.) By this order and manner of huddling and hampering different things and diverse places together, you may collect what you will, when you will, and out of whom you will; and this is your 
m Defenc. pa. 49. l. 8.  clear and plain sense of the Fathers against the which you say I can take no exception.  
After this you fall again to your first trench more of terms, and wandering a while about the phrases of Gods proper wrath, the true and right punishment of sin, two countenances in Christ, and the coincidence of his soul and spirit; you would feign conclude if you could, that if Christ suffered the wrath of God for us, he suffered the true pains of hell; which I avouched you never should be able to do. Whether I or you abuse the Reader with ambiguous and doubtful words I leave to his judgement, that taketh the pains to peruse what is past, and what followeth: truly I disadvantage myself very much so precisely to divide, distinguish and prove every thing as I do, if I meant to slide away with generalities. But you that neither can, nor will specify any parts, nor bring any proofs of your chiefest assertions, but keep yourself safe under the shelter of certain phrases devised by yourself without any warrant of Scriptures or Fathers, and never expounded nor defined in all your writing, save only with AS IT WERE, and after a sort; what meaning you can have to handle so great matters as man's redemption and salvation after so slight a manner, besides a vain ostentation of your contentious and curious humour, I leave it to the Readers censure. Now to the return of your terms.  

n Defenc. pag. 49. l. 31.  According to the most usual and common sense of God's wrath, so in my whole Treatise I take it for God's perfect holiness, justice, and power properly executing vengeance and punishment 
john 3.  (whether little or great) due to them on whom sin lieth.] Take from you your 
Psal. 20.  terms no where found in the Scriptures, but invented and authorized only by your 
2. Corin. 3.  self, and you can not step one foot further in this question. You have named, I know not how often, God's PROPER WRATH in the premises, though you never took the care nor pains to describe or define it. Now you come to the most usual & common sense of God's wrath, which you say is God's PROPER wrath. Except that old starting hole of yours, which here you call the proper executing of punishment; and there is nothing more repugnant to your own assertion, than your own description. For all the afflictions of this life, whatsoever they be, come from God's perfect holiness, justice, and power, and are due to the children of Adam for sin abiding or dwelling in them, though God of his secret counsel may have other purposes in sifting his Saints for their good and his glory. Your sense of God's wrath you say is most usual, but you show not where, nor with whom. If you mean with yourselves, I can easily yield that; if you mean in the Scriptures, I greatly doubt whether the wrath of God in the Scriptures do more usually signify his everlasting judgements against sin after this life, or his temporal plagues upon sinners in this life. Howbeit it is not greatly material, which is most usual, since either is usual in the word of God. You quote but four places for that purpose in your Margin, and miss two of them. For in the 2. Cor. 3. vers. 17. and 9 I find not the name of God's wrath at all expressed in either of them. But I so use the phrase as signifying any punishment of sin whatsoever.] The Scriptures so use it before me, and you can give no reason, why I should not so use it after them. It is altogether an improper speech, you say.] So say you, but the Scriptures say not so. They make degrees and differences betwixt the wrath of God in this world and in the next, and his displeasure against the sins of his own, and his enemies; but they take not wrath for favour as you do, though God's wrath against the wickedness of his children be never executed without favour to their persons, which in the faithless is far otherwise.  

o Defenc. pa. 50. li. 5.  It is true, all troubles, pains and griefs in their first ordinance were the effects of Gods proper wrath: but in their state and condition now, they are not, namely as the godly do suffer them.] You are full of shifts, but they are so slender, that they do but shame you. After much wrangling you grant it to be true, that all troubles, pains and griefs in their first ordinance were the effects of God's wrath; you say of God's PROPER WRATH. Which last I think to be untrue, though the former be very true. If by their first ordinance you mean the judgement of God pronounced against Adam and all his offspring for sin, and the punishment irrevocably inflicted on mankind therefore, it is in effect the same which I avouched against you, and so true, that you yourself dare not contradict it. For if you should, you should openly gainsay the Scriptures, which witness that man was created in all integrity of nature, felicity of state, and perpetuity of life; and that by sin, this impurity, misery, and mortality, which now we all feel, entered into the world as the wages of Adam's sin, and namely, that 
p Gen. 3. v. 16.  pain, 
q 17.  sorrow, and 
r 19  death were imposed on Adam (and so on all his) by Gods own mouth, as effects or degrees of his most just displeasure against the sin of our first parents. If you start from this with any shift of words, you start from a main principle of the Christian faith: but I suppose, that you confesle it by this that you say, they were effects of God's wrath in their first ordinance, that is, when they were first inflicted on Adam and all his posterity.  
But NOW you say, they are NOT so, specially to the godly.] Since what time began 
The first man punished for his sin, after Christ was promised.  your Now? or when was their state or condition changed? These things were generally and irrevocablely inflicted on all men, as the punishment of sin in the first man, when as yet they were signs and tastes of God's wrath not in words, but in deeds; notwithstanding we were then, and long before, even before 
s Eph. 1. v. 4.  the foundation of the world, elected and adopted in Christ jesus to be heirs of eternal salvation. Wherefore 
2. Tim. 1. v. 9  God even at the first, when by your confession they were the effects of his wrath, laid them on all, even on his own children, whom he meant everlastingly to save; and so doth continue them to this day, as monuments of his just displeasure against sin even in his own servants and saints. Yea, before God would inflict them, he made open promise of the woman's seed, that it should 
t Gen. 3. v. 15.  bruise the serpent's head; and then to teach his own, and not only the wicked, for whom he reserved everlasting destruction, what it was by sin to provoke him; he loaded the life of all the godly with sorrow, pain and death; to make them for ever by that grievous but righteous punishment of sin in themselves, the more mindful how offensive sin was unto God; and the more wary how to give ear to the Serpent against the voice of God. And therefore at the very first inflicting of them, if we cast our eyes either on our own deserts, or on the lot of the wicked, we shall find the wonderful favour of God, not only in opening his purpose unto us, for our everlasting salvation in Christ, but even in so tempering the smart of his rod, that by the punishment we did feel in ourselves the weight of sin in some sort, yet by his mercy we should be strengthened, eased, and comforted under that burden in this life; and after be received into everlasting bliss. Notwithstanding, when we compare this mortal & miserable condition here with our creation, and with the abundance of God's blessings richly powered on us, when he first made us; we should behold what sin had deprived us of, and subjecteth us unto, though it did not exclude us from Christ, who loved us so dearly, that he would and did give himself for us, rather than we should everlastingly perish. So that the sorrow, pain, and death which the godly feel, were even at the first laid on them by the same mixture of God's justice and mercy, with which they now continue; neither did Christ die for us, presently to free us from that sentence of bodily death, which God had irrevocably pronounced and executed on Adam and his offspring, by returning him and them to the earth for many thousand years before Christ came: but rather in that to partake with us, that he might save us from the rest, which in all the wicked did accompany this death; and in the end to raise us again to a better life, lest we should faint under the hand of God, who fasteneth us to the afflictions of this life by the example and fellowship of Christ's sufferings. For if we suffer with him, we shall reign with him; and we must first die in Adam, before we can be quickened again in Christ.  
They are now profitable for us, you will say; and so rather help us than hurt us in this corruption of sin, with which we are compassed.] I doubt not thereof, and so were they from the first instant that they were imposed on Adam: but how came this corruption of our nature, if not as a punishment of sin in Adam? and consequently the remedies thereof do also witness God's displeasure against sin, though they be far more wholesome for us, than to rot in the sores of our inward corruption. Can any man doubt, but God was and is able to clear us, though never so corrupt, from the infection and dominion of sin, by the working of his Spirit more mightily and easily than by troubles and griefs, if it had so seemed good to his wisdom and justice? And had he determined to show us only love without all regard to his justice, how ready was it for him in Christ to have released as well all corporal and temporal affliction to his elect, as he did spiritual and eternal? But he resolved otherwise in his most wise counsel for the conservation of his justice; and so now healeth our corruption with the salve of affliction, to let us have continually presented before our eyes, and impressed in our bodies, what our sin at first did, and still doth deserve, though he never withdrew his mercy from us, which in the end shall most abundantly recompense all. Wherefore it is no reason, that because troubles are profitable or necessary for our corrupt state, therefore they are not effects of God's displeasure against sin: yea rather because God could have otherwise cured sin in us, and would not but by perpetual affliction; it is an argument, that God so hated sin in our first parents, that he would have the very remembering & curing thereof to be always in this life painful and grievous to our outward man, though he would also comfort us in Christ, whiles here we live; and hereafter crown us with glory for Christ's sake.  
Neither is this a question of words, whether they be proper or improper in the Scriptures, but a point of doctrine necessary to be received of all men, that the corruption and dissolution of our nature and life in this world, doth manifest the exceeding hatred that naturally God hath of sin, who rewarded it in all mankind so severely, that he spared neither the bodies, souls, states, nor lives of his elect, from sensible signs of his detesting sin in them: though for his sons sake, in whom they were beloved and adopted, he would by his wonderful power rather further than endanger their salvation even by those maladies and corrosives of sin. This showeth the greatness of God's power, and goodness of his mercy towards us, but this altereth not the judgement which God pronounced, and punishment which he inflicted on Adam and all his offspring for sin. The corruption and infection of sin, which naturally and continually dwelleth in all the godly, called by Divines concupiscence, is it no punishment of sin, because the guilt thereof is remitted in Baptism, and now it is left in us to humble us, and awake us to call for grace, and to resist sin, that striving with it, we see not only the danger of sin assaulting us, but the Spirit of God assisting us, and bounty of God rewarding us? The actual sins of the faithful, shall we think them no sins but favours from God, because by them God worketh repentance, submission, conversion, yea faith, zeal, joy and thanksgiving in his elect? 
u August. de corrept. & gratia. cap. 9  God worketh (saith Austen) all things for the good of those that love him, and so far forth utterly all things, that if any of them stray, and for sake the right way, even that God turneth to their good, because they return more humble and better taught. The like I say of death, and other miseries of man's life, pronounced first by God's mouth, and still inflicted by God's hand. They are, as they were, degrees or effects of God's anger against sin in Adam; pursuing him and all his posterity for the confirmation of his justice, though by God's mercy towards his, they now serve as they did even at the first in God's children, to repress sin, to work repentance, to raise confidence in God, and contempt of all earthly things, and to exercise the graces of God's Spirit given them, as patience, obedience, and such like, and to give them assurance of a better life.  
The Church of Christ ever was, and is of the same mind with me, that the death of the body with her seeds and fruits in this life, first entered, and still remaineth as a PUNISHMENT of sin. 
x August. de Trinitate. li. 4. cap. 12.  Men shunned (saith Austen) the death of the flesh, rather than the death of the spirit, that is, the punishment rather than the cause of the punishment. We came unto death by sin, Christ by righteousness, & ideo, cum sit mors nostra poena peccati, mors illius facta est hostia pro peccato; and therefore, where our death is the punishment of sin, his death was the sacrifice for sin. Theodoret speaking of the separation of body and soul, whereby that which is mort all sustaineth death, the soul remaining free from death as being immortal, asketh his adversary, 
y Theodor. dialogo. 3. cap. 2.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉? Dost thou not think death to be a punishment? Who answering; The Divine Scripture teacheth so much; Theodoret inferreth; Is death then the punishment of sinners? The other yielding that this is granted of all men, Theodoret concludeth: Why then, since both the soul and body sinned, doth the body alone sustain the punishment of death? Fulgentius: 
z Fulgen. de incarnate. & gratia Christ's. cap. 12.  Nisi praecessisset in peccato mors animae, nunquam corporis mors in supplicio sequeretur. Except the death of the soul had gone before by sin, the death of the body had never followed after as a punishment. And therefore of our flesh he saith: 
a Ibid. cap. 13.  Nascitur cum poena mortis, & pollutione peccati: It is borne with the punishment of death, and pollution of sin. And of young children: By what justice is an infant subjecteth to the wages of sin, if there be no uncleanness of sin in him? or how do we see him strooken with death, if he felt not the sting thereof (which is sin?) Maxentius in the confession of his faith; 
b Maxentius in libello fidei cap. 3.  We believe (saith he) that not only the death of the body, which is the punishment of sin, but also the sting of death, which is sin, entered into the world; because we consent not to these men (who say the contrary) but to the Apostle, who testifieth that sin and death went over all men. Prosper: 
c Prospered promissio. & praedict. part 1. cap. 5.  The punishment of sin, which Adam the root of mankind received by (Gods) sentence, (saying, Earth thou art, and to earth thou shalt return) and transmitted to his posterity as to his branches, the Apostle saith, entered into the world by one man's sin, and so ranged over all men. Beda: 
d Beda in Psal. 34.  The death as well of us men, as of Christ, is called sin, because it is the effect and punishment of that sin which Adam committed. The second council of Arrange about 450 years after Christ confesseth no less; 
e Concilium Arausic anum 2. cap. 2.  If any man affirm, that only the death of the body, which is the punishment of sin, and not sin also, which is the death of the soul, passed by one man to all mankind, he ascribeth injustice to God, and contradicteth the Apostle, who saith; By one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death passed over all men.  
Our later writers, though they fully defend that God doth not punish his either to destruction, as he doth the wicked; nor for satisfaction of sin, as he did his own Son for the sins of all his Saints; and to comfort the afflicted, they set before them the presence of God's power assisting them in their miseries, or delivering them from their troubles, the purpose of God respecting wholly their good, and the promise of God exceedingly recompensing their patience; yet when they come to the causes provoking God to this severity, they acknowledge that to be sin, and teach every man to descend into himself, and to give God the glory, in that his righteous judgement beginneth at his own house. Of the evils, (which we suffer in this life) 
f Bullingerus decadis 3. sermo. 3.  there be many and sundry causes, saith Bullinger, but sin itself is counted to be the general cause. For by disobedience sin entered into the world, and by sin death, diseases, and all the mischiefs in the world. 
g Ibidem.  The persecutions and cruel tortures inflicted on the Church of God, or on particular Martyrs, as they were offered them for the confession and testimony of the faith and truth of the Gospel, so for the most part they had for their causes the offences and sins of the godly, which the justice of God did visit in his servants, though for the good and welfare of his Saints. 
h Ibidem.  The people of Israel sinned against the Lord in the desert under the judges and Kings very often, and very enormously, and were grievously punished by the Lord; but again they were speedily delivered as often as they acknowledged their sins, and turned unto the Lord. 
i Ibidem.  If therefore any man suffer any evil for sin committed, let him acknowledge the just judgement of God upon himself, and humble himself under the mighty hand of God, confessing it unto God; and ask pardon with lowly prayer, let him patiently bear that which he hath so well deserved to suffer. 
k Zanchij tractat. Theolog. lib. 1. cap 2. thes. 8.  It is certain, saith Zanchius, that all the punishments and miseries, which we feel in this world, are from sin, and inflicted for sin. In which place he resolveth by a plain thesis, that death is the punishment of sin, and (so are) all those things which are the fruits of death, as well in Soul, as in body, and in (our) external state. 
l Gualther. homil. 118. in 12. cap. Joh.  It is an argument (saith Gualther) of a mind scant religious wholly to despise death, quam per peccatum ingressam, & peccati poenam esse omnes Scripturae testantur, which all the Scriptures witness came in by sin, and is the punishment of sin. In the Philosopher's commendations (of the death of the body) 
m Petri Martyris loci communes, class. 3. lo. 14. & sect. 5.  there are some things (saith Peter Martyr) not agreeable to the Christian faith, and to the sacred Scriptures. For we say, that death must not be accounted any good, but an evil thing. Quandoquidem Deus illam uti poenam inflixit nostro generi; For so much as God inflicted it as a punishment on mankind. And so else where: 
n Idem class. 2. loc. 1. sect. 51.  Omnes pij statuunt in morte ●…rae divinae sensum esse, ideoque sua natura dolorem & horrorem incutit. All the godly resolve, that in death there is a sense of God's wrath, and therefore of his own nature it impresseth a grief and terror. And if there be any to whom it is contenting and acceptable to die, they have that from some other fountain, and not from the nature of death. 
o Musculus in locis communibus theologicis de Ira Dei.  There might be assigned (saith Musculus) many kinds of the wrath of God, but for this present we content ourselves with a triple division thereof, whereby we divide it into general, temporal, and eternal. The general (wrath of God) is that wherewith the whole posterity of Adam is enwrapped for original sin. Hence come all the miseries of mankind, which equally follow the condition of men, and cleave as well to our minds, as to our flesh. The temporal wrath of God is that (Qua peccat is non impiorum modò, sed & piorum irascitur, ac paenas de illis sumit in hac vita,) whereby God is angry with the sins not of the wicked only, but of the godly also, and taketh punishment of them in this life. Whether I speak or think otherwise, than these new and old Divines have spoken and taught, let the Reader judge.  
But mine own Authors in the very places, which I allege, do say that the nature of death is changed, and that God is angry with his elect, as a Father with his beloved children, to chasten and amend them.] Peter Martyr saith indeed the nature of death is changed by God's goodness making that profitable to us, which of itself is very harmful: but with what condition doth he say it is changed? 
p Pet. Mart. loc. come. class 3. lo. 14. sect. 7.  Puta, si quis obediente animo eam sube at, néque poenam illam reijciat, quam divina justitia nos omnes volverit exoluere: If a man submit himself unto it with an obedient hart, and reject not that punishment, which the justice of God would have us all to suffer. And so it was changed, even when it was inflicted on the elect in Adam's loins. For Christ was first promised to be the bruizer of the Serpent's head. Now if death afterward took full and everlasting hold on Christ's members, than the serpent prevailed against Christ and his chosen, and not Christ against the Serpent. Wherefore God so moderated his sentence, that he adjudged Christ's members in Adam no farther than to the earth, whence Christ should raise them, and utterly abolish from them all the Serpent's poison, that is, sin, death, and corruption: but this proveth not death to be good in God's Children, or to be no punishment of sin in them, because God converteth it to their advantage in the end; no more than their sins are good, because God turneth them also to the benefit of his elect. For, as you heard before, Saint Austen saith of their sins as he doth of their death, that God turneth them, and all things else to the good of those that love him. Touching Gods fatherly Anger against the sins of the faithful for their amendment, which Musculus mentioneth; He doth not say as you do, it is no Anger; neither do I defend any other kind of Anger in God then such, as a Religious and wise Father in some sort resembleth, when he pursueth the wickedness of his unruly son. Whose person though he favour as being his Son, and by chastisement seek to reform; yet is he or aught he to be, not in words or looks only, but inwardly and truly displeased and offended with the lewdness of his Son. And though love do temper the correction, that he mean not to kill or overthrow his own flesh and blood; yet the zealous Father spareth not to make his Son thoroughly smart, till he confess, mislike, and leave his former looseness, and frame himself obediently to his Fathers will. Doth not this Father as much hate the vices, as he loveth the person, and seeketh the welfare of his Son? And since his Son will not be otherwise recalled, may not the sharp correction, which the Father useth to repress the unbridled and untamed appetites of his licentious child, be called punishment? The Scriptures so speak, and so do the Fathers, as also the later writers; only this fabler hath found out a new faith, and new phrases of Gods improper wrath, and untrue punishment of sin, which God useth toward his children, that provoke him with their impurity and iniquity.  

q Defenc. pa. 50. li. 26.  It may not be said properly, that (Gods) justice leadeth him to inflict these things on us, (as you affirm) but his holiness and love.] Your mouth belike is the measure of proper speeches. If you intent that not only justice, but also Love did and doth lead 
God is just in punishing his Saints.  God to inflict these things on us, you say the same that I affirm; but if you mean, (as you must, if you will cross my position,) that Love without justice did and doth lead God to inflict these things on us, then speak you both absurdly and wickedly. For the Scriptures ascribe justice and judgement to God in chastening his Church, and punishing the sins of his servants, as well as they do Love and holiness. When the Prophet told Roboham and the Princes of juda, that 
r 2. Chro. 12. vers. 5.  they had left God, and therefore God would leave them in the hands of Shishak the King of Egypt: the King and Princes 
s Vers. 6.  humbled themselves, and said, the Lord is just. When jerusalem was burnt and her people carried captive to Babylon, the Prophet lamenting her misery saith, the Lord hath 
t Lament. 1. vers. 5.  afflicted her for the multitude of her transgressions: and teacheth her to say; 
u Vers. 1●….  Just is the Lord, for I have rebelled against his mouth. Daniel at the time, when God would deliver his people from that Captivity, maketh confession of his and their sins, and saith; 
x Dan. 9 v. 11.  All Israel have transgressed thy law, and departed from hearkening to thy voice. Therefore the curse is powered upon us, because we have sinned against him. 
y Vers. 14.  And the Lord hath watched over this evil, and brought it upon us, because the Lord our God is just in all that he doth; for we would not hear his voice. The Levites after their return making confession of their sins unto God, & mentioning their afflictions, do add; 
z N●…hem. ca 9 33.  And thou (Lord) are just in all that is come upon us; because thou hast kept (thy) truth, and we have done wickedly.  
The Apostles confess the like after Christ's coming. 
a Rom. 3.  If our iniquity (saith Paul,) commend the justice of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust in punishing? God forbid. Very plainly the same Apostle denounceth God's justice and vengeance to all Christians that wrong their brethren; 
b 1. Thess 4. vers. 6.  You know (saith he) what Commandments we gave you by the Lord jesus, that no man oppress or defraud his brother: for the Lord is the Avenger of all such things, as we foretold and protested unto you. And to the Colossians; 
c Coloss. 3.  He that doth wrong shall receive (at God's hand) for the wrong, which he hath done, and there is no respect of persons. 
d Prou. 12.  The recompense of a man's hands (that is works) shall (God) give unto him, either in this life if he repent, or in the next if he persist. 
e Prou. 11.  Lo (saith Solomon) the righteous are repaid on earth (he meaneth the evil which they have done to others) how then the wicked and the sinner? For here in this life is the 
f 1. Pet. 4.  time, that judgement beginneth at the house of God. If it first (begin) with us (saith Peter) what shall be the end of them, who obey not the Gospel of God? Howsoever you tattle that God utterly forgetteth his justice in afflicting his Church; the Scriptures teach us, that judgement beginneth here at the house of God, for an example of the just judgement of God against the wicked, and that the very righteous are repaid on earth the wrongs which they do to others, God by his Apostle openly professing himself to be the Avenger of such believers, as wrong or defraud their brethren. Now whether there may be judgement, Requital, and Revenge in this life from God against evil, without some admixture of his justice, though he purpose not to destroy the penitent, I leave it to the Christian Reader to consider.  
Hath not Christ then borne the burden of our sins to free us from all punishment? 
How we are freed from sin by Christ.  Christ hath not presently and generally freed us and every part of us from all corruption and affliction of sin; he will do it at his appointed time, when the day of our redemption cometh. In the mean time our inward man is freed, though our 
g 2. Cor. 4.  outward man daily perish. For Christ 
h 1. Cor. 15.  must reign till he have put all his (and our) enemy under his feet. The last enemy, that shall be destroyed is death. Then shall be the end of sin, death, and corruption in all his; and not before: though we be already redeemed by Christ from it, in God's purpose and promise (which shall then be fully performed) and in part, whereof we presently have an assurance in that our souls are renewed in this life by grace, and received in the next to a blessed rest and comfort, till that day rise, when Christ will set a crown of righteousness on them all, that love his coming. Again we are presently freed from all that, which is solely the punishment of sin, and hath no farther or other profit or use in it, then only to punish and revenge sin. And such are none of these things, whereof we speak. For God in them all hath so tempered a taste of his justice with his manifold and great mercies, that it is not expedient for us as yet to be wholly freed from them. This respect prevaileth so far with God, that whiles the world must dure, he hath subjecteth his children to the capital and penal laws not of Christian Magistrates only, but even of infidels also, for that without discipline of the sword, man's state and life on earth can not be maintained. And therefore the politic and penal laws of Princes be not derogatory to Christ's death, nor injuries to Christian men, as the Libertines would have them; not because men have more right to punish then God hath, or their interest to punish could continue, when Gods doth cease; but for that it is expedient and needful for us so to be governed in outward and earthly things, till the time come, when Christ will 
i 1 Cor. 15. Vers. 24.  put down all rule and all authority and power, that God may be all in all. Now if Christ's death repeal not man's laws, how much less Gods irrevocable judgements fastened to our nature, and not hindering our salvation, but renewing the memorial of our sin, lest we should forget it, or neglect it; and teaching us by tolerable and temporal pains, what intolerable torments we have escaped by God's mercies towards us? Wherefore Christ by his obedience unto death hath showed us an example what to follow, and thereby rather confirmed than reversed his Father's sentence for the time, till he come to wipe all tears from our eyes, and to restore us to the glorious liberty of the sons of God, which he hath presently purchased for us, though he will not presently execute it.  
Lastly the death of Christ doth not belong, nor any benefit thereof, but to such as repent and believe. After his death Christ commanded 
k Luk. 24.  repentance and remission of sins to be preached in his name among all nations; and with all denounced, 
l Mark. 16.  He which will not believe, shall be damned. So that neither the incredulous, nor the impenitent have any part or pardon in Christ's death and sufferings. If then all the children of God would fully repent and perfectly believe: surely all which they should suffer in this life (I still except the natural, and as yet unchangeable corruption of body and soul, which abideth in them from their birth) were only trials of the graces, and signs of their blessedness. 
m Matth. 5.  Blessed are they (saith our Saviour) that suffer persecution for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. When you do well and suffer, taking it 
n 1. Pet. 2.  patiently, this (saith Peter) is acceptable unto God. But what praise is it, if when ye be buffeted for your faults, you take it patiently? Now how many thousands are there in Christ's flock, which defect in faith and specially in true repentance? Yea how rare are they, that repent when, and as they ought? Then hath God's justice cause enough, and enough to punish all, that either shrink in faith, neglect his will, or slack repentance; notwithstanding the general freedom obtained and proclaimed by the death of Christ; and out of this number very few Christians are exempted. Wherefore to make men believe, that God hath no justice, or regardeth not his justice, to punish them in this life, after he hath once engrafted them into Christ, because Christ hath suffered all the punishment of their sins for them; is but to deceive them. God is most faithful in his promises, if we could take assured hold of them; but if we fall from them by diffidence or disobedience, God wanteth no justice to aggravate his hand according to our deserts, though in mercy he spare us, even when he striketh us, and intendeth our conversion and not our destruction, how sharp soever his plagues be, which would be far sharper, if his love towards us in Christ jesus, did not overrule his just displeasure against our sins.  

o Defenc. pag. 50. l. 31.  The case with Christ was clean otherwise. He needed no amendment, but that which he suffered was right punishment.] Right and proper, if you may be moderator, shall be 
The Defenders partition of punishment, applied to Christ, is insufficient and impious.  what please you. What is RIGHT AND TRUE PUNISHMENT you never define; but pretending sincerity, when you come to the issue, you enclose your conceits with very, proper, right, and such like phrases, and so take your leave. But declare, if you can, or will vouchsafe to make others partakers of your mysteries, what is proper and right, very and true punishment. You must define punishment either by the pain, which is suffered; or by the purpose of the punisher, that is, by the cause, for which it is inflicted. You stand not in this place on the pain imposed, but rather on the purpose of the punisher, or cause of the punishment. For if you measure punishment by the same pains, then tell us why the miseries of this life, as penury, sickness, and death, be punishments in the wicked, and not in the godly; since they be the same in both, setting aside the purpose of the punisher, which is different in both. They are, you say, for correction and amendment in the godly, not for destruction and vengeance, as they are in the wicked. Then the purpose of the punisher, by your intention, maketh the pain to be punishment; which being referred to another end, as in other patients, is no punishment, though it be the self same pain in both. And thence you draw your conclusion, that since the sufferings of Christ could not be for correction and amendment in him, therefore 
p Defenc. pag. 52. l. 1.  his afflictions every one, SMALL AND GREAT, were true and proper punishments, and the effects of Gods very wrath for sin lying upon him. Otherwise the bodily afflictions which Christ suffered were the self same which the godly often suffer; and yet you avouch them in the faithful to be no punishments, because they serve for correction and amendment in them; which having no place in Christ, you conclude his sufferings great and small to be true, right and proper punishments. But Sir how prove you this division, that all the punishments, (you call them pains) which God inflicteth in this life, are either for correction or for vengeance properly so called? there is neither sufficiency, nor piety in this partition of yours thus applied to Christ. For in the wicked God's purpose is only to revenge sin, and therefore in the end God alotteth them the just and full punishment of sin, which is everlasting damnation. And in the mean season during the time of his patience, he mitigateth his hand in respect of that which shall follow, but giveth them no inward grace to repent, whereby they are in all their afflictions hardened and ripened for sorer vengeance, as still repining and murmuring at the hand of God but never misliking or leaving their sins. In the elect when they are disobedient and impenitent, God pursueth their sins with corporal and temporal plagues, that they may return and fly unto him for mercy; to which end he giveth them grace in the midst of their miseries to acknowledge their offences, and by faith to take hold of his promises made to them in Christ jesus; and so upon their submission and conversion he receiveth them to favour; whose persons he always loved in his only Son, though he hated and scourged their uncleanness. In Christ jesus the case was clean different from the one and the other. You confess there was nothing in him to be corrected or amended; then was he not punished for correction. On the other side, much less did God purpose to destroy Christ's person being his own and only Son; as he doth the wicked, whose bodies and souls he will destroy in hell: and consequently Christ was not punished to destruction. That is proper to the reprobate, whose persons God hateth, and leaveth in their sins, that they may provoke his just wrath to their utter destruction. Then was Christ neither punished as the godly are for amendment, nor as the wicked are for vengeance; and so your partition is false, and defective; and all your collections grounded thereon are like the foundation, that is void of all strength and truth.  
What then was God's purpose in punishing Christ for our sins? even that which 
God's purpose in the death and Cross of Christ.  you always pass by with deaf and dull ears, though it be often repeated and urged unto you, because you will not be turned from the trade of your hellish pains. Why God would not have man redeemed, but by the death and passion (that I call the punishment) of Christ jesus, the Scriptures yield many causes, (though of Gods will no cause may be required;) some respecting God himself, some concerning Christ, and some regarding us. Touching God, the cross of Christ doth commend his wisdom, show his power, manifest his love, content his holiness, & preserve his justice. 
q 1. Corin. 1.  Christ crucified (as Paul saith) is the power of God, and the wisdom of God to them that are saved, howsoever the cross of Christ seem foolishness and weakness to them that perish. Then to control the carnal wisdom of the world, and to confound the pride and strength of Satan and his members, God would use the baseness and feebleness of the Cross in saving his elect. Also, to witness his love towards us, he decreed the same: 
r john 3.  So God loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, 
s Ephes. 5.  to be an offering and a sacrifice of a sweet smelling savour unto God. With which Sacrifice the holiness of God resteth so 
t 2. Pet. 1.  well pleased, that he accepteth us as holy, and 
u Hebr. 10.  sanctified by the oblation of the body of jesus Christ once made. The upholding of God's justice by the death of Christ is often specified in the Scriptures. 
x 1. Corin. 15.  By a man (came) death, and by a man the resurrection from the dead. 
y 2. Corin. 5.  Him that knew no sin, God made sin for us (to wit, a sacrifice for sin) that we should be made the righteousness of God in him. Therefore it was 
z john 11.  expedient, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole Nation perished not. 
a Esa. 53.  He was wounded for our transgressions; and by his stripes are we healed. The Lord laid upon him the iniquity of us all. 
b Hebr. 9  And where a Testament is, there must be the death of the Testator: for a Testament is confirmed, when men are dead. So that by the Scriptures themselves God decreed the Cross of Christ in man's redemption, to reveal his wisdom, power, and love to the world, and wholly to satisfy his holiness and justice, which were thoroughly displeased and provoked with man's disobedience, but as thoroughly recompensed and appeased by the submission and obedience of Christ.  
As for Christ himself, it is evident by the Scriptures, that his enduring the cross declared his obedience, patience, humility, charity, perfection and power, in more effectual manner, than without it he could have done. For therein he 
c Phil. 2.  emptied and humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. 
d 1. Pet. 2.  When he was reviled, he reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not. He 
e Esa. 53.  was oppressed and afflicted, yet did he not open his mouth. For so 
f Galat. 2.  he loved (us) that he gave himself (for us;) 
g john 15.  and greater love than this hath no man, to bestow his life for his friends. But 
h Rom. 5.  God setteth out his love towards us, that whiles we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Once (then) 
i 1. Pet. 3.  he suffered, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God; and being 
k Hebr. 2.  consummate through affliction, was made the Prince of (our) Salvation. For in that he suffered and was tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted, and became a merciful and faithful high Priest, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. And 
l Rom. 14.  therefore he died and rose again, that he might be Lord of the dead and the living, and 
m Hebr. 2.  through death destroy him that had power of death, even the devil.  
On our behalf it was not needless, that Christ should die the death of the cross. For besides that we are 
n 1 Cor. 6.  bought with a price, lest we should be our own, even with the 
o 1. Pet. 1.  precious blood of Christ, as of a Lamb unspotted and undefiled, and 
p Rom. 5.  reconciled to God by the death of his Son, which covenant is irrevocable, being sealed with his blood: by his cross Christ 
q 1. Pet. 2.  left us an example how we should follow his steps, and be 
r 1. Pet. 4.  partakers of his sufferings; that when his glory shall appear, we may be glad and rejoice. For it is a 
s 2. Tim. 2.  true saying, if we be dead with him, we shall live with him; if we suffer (with him) we shall reign with him. 
t Rom. 6.  We are buried then by Baptism into his death, that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of his Father; so we should also walk in newness of life: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 
u 2. Cor. 5.  He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but to him, which died for them, and rose again.  
Infinite are the places of Scripture witnessing the causes, effects, and fruits of Christ's death on the Cross; all which this Dreamer must deny or delude, before he can defend, that God's purpose in Christ's sufferings was only to punish our sin lying on him. For if God's purposes in appointing Christ's Cross, were so acceptable to the Father, so honourable to the Son, and so profitable for man, as the Scriptures mention; with what face can it be said, that God punished his Son only for vengeance? or that whatsoever Christ suffered (all his life long) specially at his death, was 
x Defenc. pag. 51. l. 4.  very wrath and vengeance from God properly taken? Christ suffered the same things here on earth, which the godly likewise do in this life, as appeareth by the history of his death and passion; and other pains or deaths in Christ the Scriptures do not specify. God's counsel in decreeing the Cross of Christ for man's redemption, considering the true desert of our sin and terrible vengeance provided for others, was vary favourable and fatherly, not overpressing the patience of Christ's human nature, nor wearying his obedience; and had in it far more gracious and glorious intents and events, than our afflictions can or ought any way to match or approach. If then God's favour to his elect make their sufferings in this life no wrath, nor vengeance, nor so much as punishments; why should the exceeding love and admirable honour wherewith God accepted and advanced the death of his Son for man's salvation, seem to any sober man very wrath, true vengeance, or the proper punishment of sin provided and reserved for reprobate men and angels?  
It was not for correction, you say.] What then? ergo for vengeance? Who being in his right wits would so reason? God afflicteth his Saints often times for probation, for perfection, for coronation, as the Scriptures avouch, and not for correction. May a man thence conclude by your Logic, that these afflictions of the Godly are true punishment and proper vengeance? Yourself most withstand it. Why then since Christ's afflictions had in them a clear illustration of God's wisdom, power, and love towards man, somewhat blemished and obscured in man's fall by Satan's craft, and a full recompense to his holiness and justice, neglected and irritated by man's unrighteousness, besides the obedience, sufficience, and prevalence of his Son thereby declared; why should, I say, those afflictions of Christ great and small, during his life and at his death, seem to any man that is well advised, the true wrath, proper vengeance and right punishment that was prepared for sinners? Yea since the proper vengeance and right punishment of sin must be common to sinful men with the sinful Angels, in as much as they both sinned, and shall both receive the due wages of sin; how can the corporal afflictions of this life, wherein the devils can not partake with men, be called the proper vengeance and right punishment of sin? And who but you, hearing our Saviour pronounce that everlasting fire is the full payment and proper punishment of wicked and accursed men and Angels, would labour with such loose and lewd collections to bring Christ jesus within the compass of the full punishment and proper vengeance due to sin? Wherefore take back your riotous and irreligious terms: As they are not proved by any Scripture, so are they not to be suffered in Christian Religion, because they are but clouds to cloak the fantastical frame of your new hell. In the sharpness of the punishment exacted by God on the manhood of his own Son for our sins, though far different from that which the wicked do and shall feel, and which the Scriptures call the wrath to come; (wherein the devils shall have their portion, even in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone,) God would have us learn, how much he detesteth our sins; how easy all the plagues, which we suffer in this life, are in respect of that we deserve; how infinite the love and mercy of God was towards us, to lay the burden, which we could not have borne, on the shoulders of his only Son, who for his dignity, innocency, and every way sufficiency was able to quench that wrath, that everlastingly and intolerably would have burnt against us to our final and perpetual destruction of body and soul. For if Gods own Son, though he did recompense our sins with his infinite humility, obedience, and sanctity, was yet pursued unto death in most painful and reproachful manner for our sakes, before we could be quited from the guilt and load of our sins; had we appeared in the just judgement of God to receive the reward of our manifold iniquities, what could have been the end thereof but a most dreadful damnation of body and soul to hell fire for ever with the desperate and damned spirits? This God would have us observe in the death of his Son, though there be many other points of God's wisdom, power, and love towards Christ himself, which the Scriptures enclose in the Cross of Christ.  
That then God's wrath and displeasure against our sins appeared in the Cross 
v●…ngeance proper to the wicked appeared not in the Cr●…sse of Christ.  of Christ, I do not deny, speaking of wrath after the manner of the Sacred Scriptures. But that any wrath or vengeance proper to the wicked was therein offered or executed on Christ, or that he suffered the just and full punishment allotted to others for sin, (Save that his sufferings were in his person the full price of our Redemption, I mean a most sufficient satisfaction and recompense for all the sins of the world) I find no mention made thereof in all the Scriptures, nor see any just cause or proof thereof alleged by you in all your writings. For since you will not endure, that any thing executed on the godly shall be truly called wrath; it is evident that the wrath which you imagine Christ suffered, must be proper to the wicked, before it can be rightly called wrath; because the godly feel no part of God's wrath, little nor great, as you suppose. Now that Christ suffered the wrath of God provided for the sins of the wicked only; and no way common to the godly; this is both a false, and a wicked proposition of yours, & though you every where urge it, you no where prove it, but boldly, as your fashion is, affirming it, you think the world bound to embrace it.  
I find by the Scriptures that the wrath which Christ suffered in Soul and Body, differed from that which is proper to the wicked as well in the Nature and measure of the pains, as in the purpose of the punisher, and inward peace of the sufferer, and in all the consequents of the pains themselves. In this world the wicked find subtraction of all grace and favour, confusion and desperation; in the world to come exclusion from glory, Malediction, and damnation wholly and everlastingly light on them; none of which may be transferred to Christ without intolerable blasphemy. Yet pain you think Christ suffered, and more than pain the wicked and damned do not suffer.] Were that true which is most false, that the damned suffer no more than pain, though indeed in hell cuery thing doth pain them, yet all pains are not of the same nature and kind; and no pains felt in this life come near the pains of hell whereof this mortal life and flesh is not capable. The pain of fire we see doth presently cut of this life, and some diseases so much heat the body, that they do the like; and yet the pain and force of this natural fire, or of any sickness is nothing comparable to the fury of hell fire, for which the bodies of the wicked must be made immortal, before they can endure it. All aches and agues do pain the body, all fears and sorrows afflict the soul and spirit of man. Shall we thence conclude, that all men at all times, when they are pained or grieved, suffer the pains of hell, because it is pain which the damned do suffer? It is more than profane abusing and deluding the terrible judgements of God against sin to suppose, that all pains of body and soul are hell pains in nature and kind, which you wrap under the fold of proper wrath and right punishment of sin, because they are pains. Wherefore they must either be the self same pains, that God in his just and fierce wrath inflicted on the damned; or you shall never infer by phrases of your own making, which only serve to hide your own meaning, that Christ suffered the pains of hell.  
As for God's wrath against sin, it hath many degrees and parts by the verdict of 
God's wrath against sin hath many degrees and parts.  holy Scripture, though you will not hear thereof. For as God's blessings & benefits, when he first made man, were of his heavenly goodness richly provided for man, and plentifully powered on the body and soul of man; as well for the leading of this life in plenty, safety, and delight, as for the surer attaining of everlasting joy and bliss in an other place: so when man by sin fell from God, by justice God deprived him and his of all those earthly and bodily favours and comforts no less then of the spiritual and inward gifts and graces of the mind; by that means making way to his everlasting and dreadful judgements against sin. Now if these external things bestowed on man in his first creation, were justly called, and must be confessed in their kind, to be the blessings and favours of God afforded to all mankind, when he made man and the whole world for his use; then out of question the taking them away from man, and subjecting him by justice to the contrary for sin committed, may as truly be named, and must be believed, to be the signs and effects of God's displeasure against sin, which the Scripture nameth wrath. And so God calleth either of them when he 
y Deut. 28.  promiseth the one to the observers of his Law, and 
y Deut. 28.  threateneth the other to the breakers thereof; who useth not to promise or threaten words but deeds. Neither hath it any reason because the rejecting of man from the greater and higher blessings of inward grace and eternal bliss was far the sorer and sharper punishment of man's sin, that therefore the withdrawing of these should be no degree nor effect of God's wrath against sin; no more than the loss of a leg or an arm should be counted no maim, because a man hath an head and an hart, which are more principal parts of his body. Wherefore though in comparison they may be justly diminished, and abased far beneath the worthiness of the rest of God's blessings, which are reserved for his Children in an other life; yet can they not be denied to be God's blessings even in this life: and if to give them to man, when he was first made, were the favour and bounty of God towards man, which no Christian may deny; to take them from man for sin, must truly argue God's displeasure against sin, not in improper speech, as you gloze, but in a less degree than those, which bring with them perpetual subversion of Body and Soul.  
And when the Scriptures mean to express the spiritual and eternal wrath of God, they do it not by propriety of words as you pretend; but by different circumstances: either of the TIME after this life, when no wrath is executed but that which is everlasting; as Christ 
z 1. Thess. 1.  delivereth us from the wrath to come; and thou 
a Rom. 2.  heapest up wrath against the day of wrath, which is the day of judgement; or of the PERSONS, who are wicked, and the 
b Rom. 9  vessels of wrath prepared to destruction, and for whom is reserved the mist of darkness for ever; as, 
c Ephes. 5.  for such things cometh the wrath of God on the Children of unbelief; or of the CONTINVANCE which never ceaseth, as 
d john 3.  the wrath of God abideth on him that believeth not; or of the HIGH thereof when it is full, as 
e 1. Thess. 2.  the wrath of God is come upon them to the uttermost: or of the CONTRARY when it is eternal life; as, 
f 1. Thess. 5.  God hath not appointed us unto wrath, but to obtain Salvation by jesus Christ: or of the CONSEQVENTS which are sudden destruction and such like; as, 
g Psal. 2.  kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way; when his wrath shall suddenly burn, blessed are they that trust in him. By these and such like particulars we may perceive, when the Scriptures speak of the one wrath, and when of the other; but otherwise the words are common to both, as also the cause which is sin. O Lord, saith Moses, 
Exod. 32.  why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people? turn from thy fierce wrath and desist from this evil towards thy People. And again, 
i Deut. 9  I fell down (saith he) forty days and forty nights before the Lord, because of all your sins, which ye had sinned, doing wickedly in the sight of the Lord and provoking him. For I was afraid of the wrath and indignation, wherewith the Lord was kindled against you to destroy you, and the Lord heard me at that time also. Exceeding many are the places, which teach us, that our iniquities avert the outward blessing, of this life, and that our sins 
k jere. 5.  hinder good things from us; Though God after that, comfort his people, when their 
l Esa. 40.  warfare is accomplished, and they have received sufficient Correction at the hands of God for all their sins. Surely these warnings of the holy Ghost are not empty words or improper speeches; but effectual and faithful instructions for the Church of God; to learn them, that God doth visit their sins, when they forget to repent and obey; though he spare them in comparison of that wrath, which is effunded on the wicked. And therefore the name of wrath is rightly and truly applied in the Scriptures, even to those afflictions wherewith God scourgeth his own Children for their negligence and impenitence, though God have an other and greater, which is eternal wrath, laid up in store for the Reprobate, who die without Repentance and Remission of their sins.  
Howsoever the strife for words standeth, wherein I confess I may not be brought to disallow the tongue and pen of the holy Ghost; it is most certain, that the Gospel reporteth of Christ's sufferings nothing, but what was common to him with his members, even in this life where he suffered. The Apostles plainly prove as much, to wit that we have 
m Philip. 3.  fellowship and 
n 2. Co●…in. 1.  communion with Christ's afflictions, and are 
n 1. Pet. 4.  conformed to his death. Now there is no communion, but where the same things are common to both, though the degrees may differ. And you yourself, when it maketh for you, can urge, that the Apostle speaking of Christ's sufferings, saith; 
o Hebr. 4.  He was tempted in all things like (to us) yet without sin. So that in my judgement it is a most clear case, as well by the witness of Scripture, as by your own confession; that all Christ's sufferings were LIKE, yea the SAME that ours are, as being common to both; and consequently if you any way understand what belongeth to truth or reason, the sufferings of the godly must either be wrath as well as Christ's, or if their be not, his were not, since they were the same. And so the godly must either in all their afflictions, small and great, suffer as Christ did the proper wrath of God, and true pains of hell, which you make equivalent: or if the godly do not so suffer, than Christ did not so suffer. If you fly to the purpose of the punisher, which was different in Christ and his members, and think there to succour yourself, you come to short: the purpose of God in Christ's afflictions, as I have showed by the Scriptures, was far more favourable and honourable in Christ, than it can be to any of the elect. And therefore God's purpose in Christ's punishment will far der free him from hell pains, than it will any of the faithful.  
The proportion of the pain which Christ suffered, & the inward peace of the sufferer, will prove the same. For where the pains of hell exceed the patience of men and Angels, and are no way possible to be suffered in the weakness of our mortal bodies; the measure of Christ's pain was so proportioned to the strength of his flesh, that it neither overwhelmed his life, nor his patience. And though his sweat were like blood in his earnest prayer and Agony, yet no Scripture decideth, whether that were for pain, fear, or zeal; and that dured but a while in the Garden, where as after, when his afflictions and pains were at sorest, he showed no sign of shrinking either at the torments of his body, or at the affliction of his mind; but as the Apostle saith, 
p Hebr. 12.  For the joy set before him, endured the Cross, and despised the shame; not wearied nor fainting in mind, but with most perfect obedience, and quiet patience persisting to the end. This conflict between pain and patience, to serve God's glory and obey God's will, Christ proposeth to all his members on the same condition that it was offered to his human nature. 
q revel. 3.  To him that overcometh (saith he) will I give to sit with me in my throne, even as I overcame, and ●…it with my Father in his throne.  
As for the consequents of hell pains, it is so brutish blasphemy to affirm them of Christ, that I forbear to object them. I have often named them, and you say, you 
r Defenc. pag. 52. li. 8.  abhor such blasphemies as well as ●… do, that Christ so suffered hell pains.] But Sir, you & your friends must show by the Scriptures that God hath severed these consequents I mean, rejection, reprobation, confusion, malediction diction, desperation, and such like, from the true pains of hell. The Scripture proposeth them as necessary and infallible consequents to the true pains of hell: You will sever them, because otherwise Christ must either not suffer the true pains of hell, which everteth all your new Doctrine; or he must also suffer these, which the Scriptures annex to the true pains of hell. If you confess the first, that Christ did not suffer the true pains of hell; the Question is well ended: If you sever these consequents from the true pains of hell, show by what authority of sacred Scriptures you do it; and than you may be excused from lewd and wicked presumption. For if God by his word revealed hath joined them together, you do or should know what sacrilege it is for your pleasure to pull them in sunder. Let your Reader therefore judge, whether you can be quited from the one, except you show good warrant for the other; which as yet you neither have done, nor offered to do.  

s Defenc. pag. 53. l. 6.  Yourself grant expressly, that the wrath of God is hell; indeed only it causeth hell to be cruel; yea you grant it to be sharper than hell. So that we see hereby how vainly you say; out of this proposition, Christ suffered for us the wrath of God for sin, I shall never conclude, ergo he suffered the true pains of hell. I have here showed you I trust that this followeth well, seeing the wrath of God, which Christ fel●… in his spirit, was his right and proper wrath, albeit he suffered not all, nor the whole wrath of God, nor every part thereof, just as the damned do.] Here you see your full purpose is to conclude, that Christ suffered for us the true pains of hell, though it hath been your policy to conceal so much from the Reader all this while. And indeed howsoever you dissemble it, because you can no way prooveit, The death of Christ's soul, and the true pains of hell or of the Damned are the main marks which you shoot at; though you closely carry it in other terms, which are more general and ambiguous, as the wrath of God, and the punishment of sin, to keep your Reader from discovering your foolish reasons, and rejecting your wicked devices. But cough up your conceits freely, and wander not thus about a wood of words, to show your contentious spirit, or at least to hide your hateful mysteries. Here you have showed, you trust, that it followeth well, seeing the wrath, that Christ felt in his spirit, was right and proper wrath.] You have showed us what you intent; but neither here, nor else where do you show by what grounds of reason, and truth you can infer it. Christ suffered proper wrath and that in spirit, you say.] You never went about to define or describe what proper wrath is; much less have you any way proved that, which Christ suffered, to be proper wrath. And now on the sudden you bend up your bristles, and boast you have showed, that Christ suffered the true pains of hell. But by what Scriptures I pray you have you showed it, or by what Fathers? Or if you have neither of those to derive your doctrine from; what grounds of reason have you produced for it? You have roved ignorantly, confusedly, and absurdly at the sufferings of man's soul; you have filled our ears with certain new phrases of proper, very, and right wrath and vengeance for sin; but first and last you have proved nothing; nay I see not so much as any offer of proof, but a bold project of trifles and terms to support your errors.  
But I grant expressly, that the wrath of God is hell.] Having showed by sundry Fathers the very page before, that the wrath of God is often taken for the effects thereof, and so for any punishment which God inflicteth for sin; I granted that hell and 
t Conclus. pa. 247. li. 20. & 21.  all the ●…orments there, mightiustly be called the wrath of God, because they are ᵗ the sharpest effects of God's wrath against sin. What conclude you thence? ergo every effect or degree of God's wrath is hell. If you clamper us such conclusions, you are fitter to ring a bell, than to write a book. What show of reason hath this illation of yours? The wrath of God is applied to all the pains and punishments of sin, and so by consequent to hell, as to the greatest vengeance that God taketh of men or devils for sin. Will you hence infer, hell is the greatest punishment of sin, ergo hell is all the punishment that God inflicteth for sin, or whatsoever God inflicteth for sin, is hell? By this Logic, a rotten tooth, a gouty toe, a broken head, or a lame leg, are the true pains of hell, and all men living and dying are in the pains of hell. But you will create us a new compass of hell, that shall contain all that the wicked do suffer in this life or elsewhere, be it never so little.] If you will fall to creating of new hells, show your commission; otherwise you may create yourself a worse condition than you are ware of. Think you that any wise or godly Reader will rest himself upon such inventions or such conclusions as these be?  

u Defenc. pa. 53. li 4.  Who can say how little or how small the pain was which Christ suffered?] You only can tell how great it was; for you say, Christ 
x Ibidem pag. 52 li. 26.  suffered a sense of God's wrath equal to hell itself, and to all the tor●…ents thereof. For this, if you would spare us as well proofs as words, we might at length perhaps believe you meant some truth. Why presume you to determine a just equality in Christ's sufferings to the very pains of hell upon your own head? What Scripture teacheth you so to say? 
y Defenc. pag. 53. li. 5.  Nay, who can (say you) decla●… or comprehend the infinite greatness of it?] You have comprehended and declared the just measure of it; for you make it equal with hell. And yet, as constant in this as in all other things, you presently add, that [Christ's 
z Defenc. pag. 52. li. 32.  anguish might very well be, and was no doubt infinite, even in those bodily stripes and wounds, whose pains otherwise were 
Christ a●…d not suffer pains truly infinite.  finite.] Where if you take infinite for great, or above men's reach and knowledge, as sometimes the word is used, then speak you nothing to the purpose. For Christ's pains may be great and intolerable to us, though nothing near the pains of hell. But if you take infinite, as contrary to finite, which you do in this place by opposing it to finite, then infinite indeed is more than hell: for the pains of hell are finite in degree, though infinite in having no end. Howbeit, in the mean while you wrong the Godhead of Christ, in whom nothing is infinite, besides his Divine Nature, and the force thereof. So that if Christ did suffer pains truly infinite, his Godhead must suffer, which is infinite blasphemy; by reason his manhood being a creature could not, nor might not suffer but that which was finite, both in weight and end. Such speculations you broach out of your own breast, without any likelihood of truth or concurrence with the sacred Scriptures; and than you ask Who can limit or measure 
●… Defenc. pag. 52. li. 28.  the fury of God's severe justice against sin?] As if God who is truly infinite as well in power, as in all other points, did his uttermost against Christ; and the creature in Christ were able to bear the brunt of the most that God's justice and power could inflict upon him. Such desperate untruths well become your sobriety, who will say any thing, so you may have some shift of words to shroud yourself under: but the Scriptures will teach you, that Christ's sufferings were of infinite price in respect of the person who was God and man, not of infinite pain which exceedeth the power and strength of all creatures.  
I ask, do you grant, that Christ suffered God's wrath in spirit, as the Apostle (1. Thess. 5.) distinguisheth the spirit and the soul?] I answer, do you hear, that you grossly mistake the Apostle, if you make the soul and the spirit two several substances in man? otherwise if they be but one, your question is very childish. For the immortal substance of man's soul suffereth, whether it be by her sense, affections, understanding, or will. And this is no Sophistry deceiving you with the word soul; but it is the recalling you to conceive rightly of the soul of man, which is an immortal and spiritual substance, subject to pain as well by her understanding and sense, as by her affections and will; and by what other means soever it pleaseth God to punish her. As for the wrath, which you would have suffered in Christ's spirit, when you tell us what you mean by wrath, whether the apprehension of God's wrath against our sin, or the absolute impression of pain from the immediate hand of God; or the due consideration of the case wherein Christ stood, when he suffered for our sins, which might justly breed fear, care and sorrow in his soul, besides the affliction of bodily pains and anguish, which his immortal and human spirit must needs discern and feel; you shall receive a fuller answer. Till then hold us excused, if we spend not time to guess & grope after your blind and hid fancies. Howbeit, whatsoever Christ suffered in his soul, it was religious and meritorious in him, I mean even the fear, sorrow and smart, which he humbly, obediently, and patiently suffered, as from the hand of God, whosoever were the means: and other wrath than that, you shall never be able to prove was inflicted on Christ's spirit or soul.  

b Defenc. pag. 52. li. 28.  Who can say, but that this was as hot and scorching as hell fire itself?] We see then your forwardness to have it so; but withal your foolishness, that daunting all others as unprivie to God's secrets, and Christ's sufferings, you only take upon you to tell us out of your casting box, how great and how hot the pain was, which Christ suffered in soul; even as great and as hot as hell fire itself. What dreams be these to mock men withal, and to freight the Christian faith with? As if you had of late received some Revelation from heaven, that Christ's pain was full as hot as hell fire. I will not diminish the pains which the Son of God suffered for our sakes; but am well content to aggravate them to the highest, so far as the Scriptures give me any light or leading; but you that extenuate his pains described in the Scriptures, and devise other pains for him as hot as hell fire, no where testified by the Holy Ghost, what defence can you bring for your doings? (Who can say no?) Nay who can say yea, that doth not rush headlong into Gods secret counsels, as you do? Be these the proofs whereon you pin the pains of hell suffered in Christ's soul? Who can say they were not as hot and scorching as hell fire itself?] Fry in your folly, I wish you no worse fire; if I knew not your vain, I should think you sicker than you are.  
I have no doubt but Christ's pain on the Cross was proportioned to his patience; which God meant to prove, though not to overpress: otherwise the measure of his pain, save that it exceeded not the strength of his manhood, as I do not know, no more doth any man living, except he will deceive himself with his own dreams, as this Discourser doth. For though we may by nature, in some sort, conjecture how grievous it was for Christ to hang three hours by the wounds of his hands and feet, all his bones being unjointed; yet know we not how far the power and justice of God made way to that pain, who can by any means, as well as without all means, increase pain to what degree he will. For my part therefore I will not meddle with any certain measure of Christ's pains felt in his body or soul, by which his soul might easily be afflicted as far as his human strength could stretch: but the matching and evening of it with hell fire, I take to be a presumptuous and irreligious device of this Dreamer, for the reasons which I have formerly showed; to wit, that hell pains are not executed in this life, where Christ suffered; nor sufferable to the body, which is mortal; nor tolerable to the strength of men or angels. Now though the gifts and graces of God's Spirit in the soul of Christ exceeded the measure of angels, as well for himself who is Lord and judge over all, as for us that receive of his fullness; yet in his crucifying, the Scriptures note his infirmity, not his infinity, and avouch him by the suffering of death, to be inferior to the angels, and not in strength of flesh to be superior unto them, who are not able to endure hell pains with patience, as we find by trial in devils. Wherefore assure thyself Christian Reader they are more than follies, which this man fableth of Christ's pains equal and even to hell fire itself; and such is his constancy in his new Divinity, that sometimes Christ suffered the very pains of hell themselves, and the same which the damned do; sometimes Christ's pain was equal to it, and as hot as hell fire, and so not the very same that the damned do suffer, who feel indeed the true force of hell fire, though not in that heat and height, which they shall feel it, at and after the day of judgement.  

c Defenc. pa. 51. l. 18.  It is most necessary and most comfortable to be understood of all men, how the Lord assigned to his Son in the work of redemption two persons as it were, or countenances or conditions. His own naturally, which God ever dearly loved, and our countenance or person or condition, which the Lord truly accursed and punished. His own Nature felt the sorrow and pain of the curse and hatred: but the hatred and curse was bend against the load of our sin, wherein he stood forth as guilty before God, and appeared as it were clothed therewith.] The taking of our Nature, person, and cause by the Son of God for our salvation, is a key of Christian piety that most concerneth, and most profiteth us, if it be rightly understood. But as Wasps out of sweet flowers gather sharp and hot liquors; so out of the wholesome mysteries of true religion, you labour to increase the tartness of your unwholesome humour. The eternal and true Son of God, by the determinate counsel of his Father, took our human nature (that is, both the body and soul of man) into one and the same person with his divine glory; that by the sanctity, power, and dignity of the one, the baseness and weakness of the other might with more certainty, security, and facility, perform the work of our redemption. For by the near and inseparable knitting of those two natures together, not only the person was able by his own power to destroy sin, death, and Satan; and of his own right to give the spirit of truth and grace, and everlasting righteousness and happiness to all that believe in him, but his birth, life, and death; that is, his humility, obedience, and patience were of infinite price and value with God, by reason the same person that so humbled himself to obey the will, and suffer the hand of his Father, was also God; though he could not suffer in his divine, but only in his human nature. And to assure us of his mercies towards us by making us partakers of his graces and merits with him; he took all his elect into one and the same body with him, joining himself unto them by the power of his spirit, as the head to the members, that from him they might draw the strength, hope, and joy of eternal life; and all his meritorious passions, and victorious actions be fully theirs, as performed in their names and to their uses, by him that for their sakes became their like and their leader, I mean their head and their Saviour.  
And because sin was the thing which severed us from God's holiness, and provoked his justice against us, subjecting us to death and damnation; Christ therefore took upon him the recompense of his Father's holiness by his obedience, & the preseruance of his Father's justice by his patience; admitting into his human soul and body, not the infection or pollution of our sin, much less the confusion or destruction due to us for sin, (since he could neither be defiled with our sin, nor damned for our sin;) but the purgation and satisfaction of our sins. To which end, by his obedience he abolished our disobedience; that 
d Roman. 5.  as by one man's disobedience (which was Adam) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (which is Christ) many (should) be made righteous; and 
e Coloss. ●….  through death (suffered) in the body of his flesh 
f Hebr. 9  for the redemption of (our) transgressions he 
g Col●…st. 1.  reconciled us to God, and set at peace by the blood of his Cross, things in earth, and things in heaven; 
h 1. Pet. 2.  bearing our fins in his body on the tree, that we might be healed by his stripes, We then were in ourselves defiled, hated, accursed, rejected and condemned for sin; yet Christ our Redeemer and Saviour took us into himself, and our cause upon himself, not to partake with us in our spiritual filthiness, and eternal wretchedness, but to cleanse us from the one, and to free us from the other. So that we did neither defile, nor endanger him; But 
i 1. john ●….  his blood washed us from all our sins, and by (his) 
k Hebr. 2.  death he destroyed him that had power over death, even the devil.  
You speak then not only without book, but without truth, when you say, that Christ was ever dearly loved of God for his own condition; yet in or for our condition he was truly accursed and hated. You might with as much faith and religion have said, That Christ by or with our condition was truly polluted with sin, and truly rejected, confounded, and damned for sin. For so were we, and if his taking our cause upon him do truly and necessarily subject him to our deserts and dangers, then can none of these things be avoided, which you so much abhor as blasphemies. All those things were due to us in the highest degree, even when Christ took us and our cause unto him; and were not released unto us, but in Christ and for Christ; and consequently if your two countenances and conditions in Christ be such as you make, you may aswell affirm the last as the first, that is as well pollution of sin, and damnation for sin, as malediction and hatred for sin. But who is so foolish amongst men, as to think or call him a Thief and a Felon, that upon repentance of the party, and recompense for the fact, entreateth and obtaineth pardon for one that was a Thief and a Felon? or so childish to say, that none can ransom a Prisoner condemned to death, but by suffering the same death which the other should have done? How come you then to conclude of Christ, because it pleased him to be our Mediator and Redeemer, that therefore he was guilty of our sin, or liable to the same death of body and soul, which otherwise we should have suffered? A ransom he paid for us of far more value than we were worth, which was his obedience unto death, and the shedding of his precious blood for us. But he neither owed nor paid the destruction or damnation of himself, who neither by his person could, nor by his office needed to suffer any such thing. He came 
l john 6.  to give his flesh for the life of the world; and 
m joh. 10.  to lay down his life for his sheep, that his death might be a ransom for us, and for our transgressions. Farther or other ransom than this, the Scripture mentioneth none, and therefore God required none, who by his will revealed hath thoroughly expressed what recompense for us best contented both his holiness and justice.  
Could not Christ stand ever blessed and beloved in his own Nature and yet be truly accursed and hated in our condition and person?] In the wicked God hateth and accurseth their persons for their sins, because their iniquities are neither ransomed, nor repent, and so not pardoned: but in Christ and his members it was and is far otherwise. God still hateth and abhorreth the sins as well of the faithful, as of the wicked; but because he loveth the persons of his elect whom he hath adopted in Christ his Son, therefore he destroyeth their sins in them by repentance, and remission thereof for Christ's sake, and saveth their persons, whom he can not be said to hate; though he truly hate their sins, by reason that love and hatred in God can not be permixed or varied, as they are in men. For God's love is perfect and constant, as likewise his hatred; and for that cause either in him is perpetual without ceasing or altering. If God's love to men for Christ's sake be so settled, that it can not be removed, nor transferred to the contrary, how much more than was the natural and eternal love of God towards the person of his Son, so fixed, and fervent in the highest degree, that for no cause, and in no condition he could be truly hated or accursed of God? The partaking with us in penury, sorrow, shame and death; which first came in as signs and effects of Gods just displeasure against sin, and curse upon sin; made him the more blessed, and beloved of God; since the voluntary submitting himself to these things in his human nature, taught us obedience and patience under the mighty hand of God; and how rightly to distinguish, and willingly to want temporal and earthly blessings, that we may be partakers of eternal and heavenly.  
It is no consequent therefore in us, that we are truly accursed or hated of God, because we are often deprived of his earthly blessings, and so subjecteth to his temporal and external curses; for that we enjoy by faith and hope, greater and perfecter blessings; which being in honour, comfort, and use, far above the other, make us blessed; and so remaining blessed for possessing the better, we can not be accursed for wanting the smaller; which indeed do not truly make men blessed or cursed, since the lack of them doth not exclude the true and eternal blessings of God. Much less than might the nature or person of Christ, which so greatly abounded in all spiritual and heavenly blessings, be counted accursed and hated of God, because he was content to taste of those things, which were inflicted on our condition as remembrances of God's displeasure against our sin. For since no man's person can be truly blessed and truly accursed with God, in as much as they are perfect contraries, and so the prevalent state doth prove the person to be either blessed or cursed, but not both; much less than might the person of Christ be both, though he did undergo some things in this life, which were the privations of Gods outward and earthly blessings, and so kinds of curses in their first entrance and ordinance. And yet because those temporal and external curses were nether permanent, nor predominant in Christ's person or condition, whether you respect his own or ours in him, and he otherwise was a fountain of blessing for himself and all us; it is evident that Christ's suffering those outward and earthly curses (for so the Scripture calleth the privations of God's blessings in the same kinds) imposed on man's condition for sin, could not prevail to make him accursed or hated with God. For as Christ was 
n 2. Cor. 5.  made sin for us, and yet no sinner, but still continued holy, 
o Hebr. 7.  harmless, vndesiled, and separate from sinners: so was he made a curse for us, and yet not accursed: by reason he endured the smart of our sin, and tasted of our curse in this life; but he no ways received the guilt, or endured the dominion of either; much less was he by them deprived of any part of his inward and everlasting blessings; which being by many degrees superior to the other, must needs uphold his blessedness, and overwhelm the grief and name of those curses, which were temporally and tolerably laid on man's state and condition, to make him the humbler in himself, the mindfuller of his maker, and the warier against the flatteries of that old and crafty Serpent the Devil. You shall do well therefore, Sir Collector, to learn more reason, if not more Religion, and even in natural things to remember, that the night is darkness though it have some light; and the tree may be fruitful, though some bough wither, and the ●…thiope is black, though his teeth be white; and the Bones be hard, though the Marrow be soft; and so in all cases and creatures the most prevaileth, and nameth the subject, though there be in them some small admixture of the contrary.  
The next thing you undertake is the saluing of a contradiction, with which, you say, you are charged by me: wherein the patient Reader if he be at leisure and have the Book at hand, may take a plain view of your idle Roving, and little understanding. For I do not charge you with saying, that Christ suffered ALL he suffered in his whole manhood, as you untruly 
p Defenc. pa. 53. li. 2●….  report I do; Let the Page 248. of my conclusion which you cite, be perused by him that will: I there expressly touch the contrary. My words are. 
q Conclus. pa. 248.  This Antecedent, as you utter it, doth neither good nor hurt to the Question. That Christ suffered in his whole Manhood for the Redemption of our sins, is a thing by me never doubted, nor denied: (and) that he suffered all that he suffered in his whole manhood yourself do disclaim in the next Page. Your Indefinite proposition I said proved nothing; and yourself disclaimed the general. Where now do I charge you with saying that Christ suffered all he suffered in his whole manhood? Irather discharge you from it, than burden you with it; only I added, if you should mean otherwise, than your words were uttered, which I did not say, you did; then your Antecedent had a flat contradiction in itself. For so you should in one and the same reason affirm, that Christ suffered all which he suffered in his whole Manhood, and yet had some sufferings proper to his Soul.  
But 
r Defence pag. 53. li. 22.  granting Christ to suffer all that he suffered in his whole Manhood, yet God's wrath (as God's wrath) must (you say) be suffered properly and immediately in his Soul.] The best part of your defence resteth on As, and As it were, and you take it for foam ●…ine trick to face out your Reader with an As; but where before you committed one absurdity, now with helping that, you incur twain. For still you make one and the same suffering proper to the soul, and yet common to body and soul; which in our country is a contrariety, notwithstanding your As: and adding your As, whereon you presume; you now affirm, that God's wrath (as God's wrath) must be suffered properly and immediately in Christ's soul; and so the bodily sufferings of Christ by this latter resolution of yours, were no part of God's wrath (as God's wrath;) which is contrary to your conclusion but the page before, that 
s Defenc. pag. 52. li. 1.  all (Christ's) afflictions small and great were the effects of Gods very wrath; and 
t Pag. 51. li. ●….  whatsoever Christ suffered was very wrath properly taken. But you understand suffering. for discerning, and so the soul only discerneth 
Wrath must be measured by God's intention not man's discerning.  the wrath to be from God, which the body suffereth.] Then by your understanding, Christ's body suffered nothing at all, because it discerned nothing at all; and so Christ suffered nothing in his whole manhood, which is contrary to your main assertion. But here you take suffering for sensitive discerning, which may be in the body, through or from the soul.] If you may be suffered to leap to and fro, with what significations of words you please to devise, you may reach what contrarieties you will for the principles of your faith, and one As in the end shall mend all. Were it worth the time or pains to oppose your trifling As, I could ask you, whether condemnation of sin, corruption of nature and infliction of death on the children of Infidels, be no parts of God's wrath (as God's wrath) because they are not yet by age able to discern the wrath of God: or whether the curse which God laid on the 
u Gen. 3 v 17.  earth, and Christ on the 
x Mar. 11. v. 21  fig tree, were no curses; because neither the earth, nor the fig tree, could discern them? But God's intention maketh it wrath; not man's discerning: and in man it is wrath on either part, body and soul; though only the soul can discern what and which is wrath from God. As for the goodness of your reason, if your say may stand for reason, you have said it indeed; but any thing else that you prove there or elsewhere touching the proper wrath of God, or the sufferings of Christ's soul from the immediate hand of God, truly I see not; and that I likewise leave, as I do the rest, to the Readers censure.  
Having freed yourself from contrarieties, as your manner is, with increasing them, you hasten now to unload your all surdities: in which, whatsoever I have said, I could thoroughly fasten on you, notwithstanding your new found shifts of directly and indirectly, primarily and secondarily; if it could stead Christ's Church to have your speeches proved absurd: but because I seek to maintain the truth of our redemption, which is needful for all men to know; and not to publish your follies farther than the pride of your own reasons compelled me; as I shortly touched them at the first, so will I now as shortly overrun them, to-let you see, that I mistake not your words, howsoever you will now amend them; and not spend long time in displaying your oversights which may be better bestowed about the matter itself. You deny not your words, that Christ assumed not our Nature nor any part of it, but only to suffer in it properly and immediately. You would feign salve them if you could: but how? 
y Defenc. pag. 53. li. 37.  All men may see it to be manifest that here you speak of Christ's suffering for our redemption. Why run you then so unadvisedly to his incarnation, where Christ assumed our Nature, and not in his passion? 
z Defenc. pag. 54. li 7.  Your meaning (you say) was no more b●…t to exclude that which I affirm, that Christ took hi●… human soul to suffer in it only from and by the body. Would you excuse your follies by belying my words? Where do I affirm, that Christ took his human soul to suffer in it only from and by the body? You talk of reasonable and just aduersa●…ies; what reason or justice call you this, to cite words in my name, which I never spoke nor wrote, and so falsely to excuse your words by mine? And yet there is good difference between these two sentences; Christ took his human soul to suffer in it only from the body and Christ assumed not our Nature, nor any part of it, but only to suffer in it properly and immediately. The first admitteth Christ's sufferings as one respect why he took an human soul; which is very true: The other excludeth all other respects of taking body or soul, save only to suffer; which is as false as the first is true. That was not your meaning, you will say. Then learn to balance your words better, before you so rashly power them forth; and blame not your mi●…ker, who readeth the words, but seeth not your meaning. But come to your words affirmative, since your negative are so far out of square.  

a Defenc. pa. 54. l. 1●….  I grant Christ intended, that his human soul should suffer by Sympathy; but yet this he intended not DIRECTLY nor PRIMARILY in taking two distinct parts of our human nature, our soul and our body.] You would seem learned to the simple by your doughty distinctions of DIRECTLY and PRIMARILY: and under this vizard of empty words, make them believe there lay some great mysteries. But take back your toys, wherein you put so much trust: the Christian faith was preached, written, and received without these needless bon graces of direct and indirect, primary and secondari●…: they are but dens of your devices to lurk in. Christ took our soul and our body unto him purposely and fully to save both: which of the twain he meant directly and primarily to suffer in, and which indirectly and secondaril●…, is a fruitless speculation of yours. The Christian faith neither hath nor needeth any such questions. For since man consisteth of both, and without either can be no man the Son of God descending for us and our salvation, directly and primarily purposed to sane, and suffer in both. And because the body being made of earth, was the weaker and ba●…r part of man, (the soul in will and reason, though not in power and l●…ght, as yet, drawing near to the Angels of God) and by that means further removed from the dignity and majesty of the Son of God; herefore the Scriptures more carefully express that he took our flesh; and even therein suffered death sor the ransom of our sins; though he wanted not a soul, when he became man; nor any part in him did or could feel and discern the pain and affliction of his body, but only his soul. The respects of Christ's coming into the world, and suffering sor us, if we will learn, we need not your terms of directly and primarily; the holy Ghost hath taught us this to be a 
b 1. Tim. 1.  faithful saying, and worthy of all admitta●… that Christ jesus came into the world to save sinners. Himself is a witness without all exception; that 
c Matth 20.  he came to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many. Yea his 
d john 6.  fl●…sh which he gave for the life of the world, is the bre●…d that came down from heaven. If then 
e Coloss. 1.  things in earth and things in heaven were pacified by the blood of his Cross, and we reconciled through death in the body of his flesh, in which he bore our si●…es on the tree: It is certain that Christ's body, blood, and death on the Cross, and consequently his sufferings from these and by these, were directly and primarily intended as the means of our redemption and reconciliation: and your vain imagination of the souls most principal disposition, in comparison whereof Christ (say you) did not respect this sensitive suffering by Sympathy with and from the body, which is common to us with beasts; is a lewd and irreligious reproach to the death and Cross of Christ jesus. For, what if the body of a beast may be crucified, and his blood shed, by piercing and wounding as Christ's was? shall we therefore say that Christ's death and passion were common to brute beasts? Would any ma●… frame his heart thus to think, or his tongue thus to speak, but he that is bruiter than a beast? Of your hell pains may it not more truly be said, that as you would cast them on Christ's soul, they should be common to him with devils; who I troe are worse than beasts? But these be meet matters for such a master in Israel as you are.  
You untruly and unlearnedly suppose the corporal afflictions of the Saints, and of Christ himself, to pierce no further then into the external sensitive part, which you make common to them with beasts: and sufferings proper to reasonable creatures you admit none, but your hell pains, which are common to them with devils. So that by your profound divinity all Christian men suffer either as beasts, or as devils. Which error of yours I have sufficiently refuted before; and by that informed the Reader that the chastening and afflicting the soul of man by temporal and external means and pains from the body is proper to men, and not common to beasts, who have no souls, nor to devils, who have no bodies: and that God doth thus chasten and correct his children, whose patience is precious in his sight; thereby to try, increase, and quicken his graces in them, which is blasphemy to affirm either of beasts or devils. And from what spirit this can proceed, to yield Christ no more sense, taste, nor thought of his bodily sufferings, than you do to a beast, let the Reader judge; for my part I abhor such heathenish, if not hellish comparisons. But sense you will say, is common to man and beast.] I have no doubt that beasts do hear and see, smell, taste and feel, as well as men; but even in all these five, and specially in hearing, seeing, and feeling, the soul of man showeth difference sufficient betwixt a man and a beast. For man by his immortal and reasonable spirit, discerneth and understandeth what he heareth, seeth, or feeleth, which beasts cannot do; and he conceiveth not only the things, which affect his senses, but the causes, effects, adjuncts, consequents, and remedies thereof; and thereby frameth himself, if he be religious, to behold therein the work and will of God, which is as far from beasts, as reason and grace. Though then ears, eyes, and sinews be common to men with beasts; yet in them and by them the soul of man worketh, and suffereth; which because beasts have not, it is a very gross oversight of yours (Sir Discourser) to make the bodily sufferings of Christ common to him with beasts; in which the soul of Christ showed so much obedience, patience, submission, devotion, and love, that God accepted those sufferings violently and injuriously inflicted on Christ's body, but humbly, religiously, and willingly received in his soul, as the full satisfaction for our sins.  

f Defenc. pag. 55. l. 8.  There is no reason in the world, nor likelihood, that the natural faculty in Christ's soul of proper and immediate suffering for our sins should have no use; and a suffering of pains only from and by the body should be sufficient; when as in his doing of righteousness for us, his souls joint obedience, and mutually knit together in and with his body was not alone sufficient. This must needs be a perfect reason for us against you, except you could by express Scripture disprove this proportion of like necessity between the operation of the proper faculties of Christ's human soul, that is between his doing and his suffering for us, which you shall never be able to do.] When and how came you by this authority or liberty, that you may say what you will in matters of faith without all warrant of holy Scripture, and your fancies must stand for authentic, except I can disprove them by express Scripture? Nay first prove them, before we receive them, as you and all other Christians ought to do, if you will have them pass for grounds of religion; and than if I can not disprove them by the same Scriptures, they shall go for good. An answer to this perfect reason of yours if you would have, I answer you with Tertullian: 
g Tertull. de carne Christi. c. 7.  Non recipio, quod extra Scripturam de tuo infers. I receive not this, which you bring of your own without the Scripture. And with Athanasius: 
h Athanasius de incarnatione Christi.  If you will babble other things besides those which are written, why strive you with us, that are persuaded neither to hear, nor to speak any thing besides the Scriptures? Show us this proper and immediate suffering for sins in the soul of Christ (which you so much talk of) by the Scriptures, and we will think ourselves bound to answer it; otherwise it is as easily rejected, as it is offered.  
But there is no reason in the world nor likelihood it should be otherwise.] Indeed 
Proper and immediate suffering for sins in the Soul of Christ, is the Defenders proper device.  there is no reason in the world, nor likelihood it should be so as you have said. For in Christ's doings and sufferings there was observed, and must be confessed a clean contrary course. His doings were all just and holy, as he himself was, and proceeded first from his own mind and will, by the immediate power and grace of God's spirit in him, whencesoever the outward occasions were offered him. The sufferings which he received in his body, were all unjust and violent, proceeding from others, that wickedly pursued and oppressed him; though in all his afflictions he beheld with his mind, and with his will obeyed the 
i Acts. ●….  hand and Counsel of God, thus by the malice and ignorance of his enemies 
k Acts. 3.  fulfilling those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his Prophets, that Christ should suffer. So that Christ's obedience and patience in all his persecutions, came from the same inward powers and graces of his soul from which all his actions did; though the wrongs and violences were first offered his body by the wicked. In his inward affections and passions of fear, grief, and sorrow; his mind was the first apprehender of the causes, that moved them; and his will the admitter of them. But as in all his actions he was holy and just, so in all his affections and inward passions, were they never so grievous unto him, he was not only righteous and innocent, but religious, and patient; and other passions of the soul in Christ, the Scripture knoweth none. As for your suffering of hell pains in the soul of Christ properly from the immediate hand of God, it is a device proper and immediate to yourself, which you would feign bring in as an other and chief mean of our redemption, besides that which the Scripture speaketh of Christ's sufferings. Wherein you must pardon me and all true believers, for not accepting your fancies as any parts of our faith. We read that God is the 
l 2. Cor. 1.  Father of mercies: that he is the tormentor of souls in hell with his immediate hand, we do not read; much less that he ●…o tormented the soul of his Son in the time of his passion, which is the main plat of your new found hell. The judge shall say, Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his Angels. Which fire we confess is created and established by the might, power, and hand of God, as a mean to torment the damned, both men and Angels, according to their deserts; but that this fire is nothing else, but the immediate hand of God tormenting the wicked spirits in hell, as it did the soul of his own Son on the Cross; I take either of these assertions, not to dissemble with you, to be a gross and palpable error; strange to the Scriptures and strange to the whole Church of God, before these our days, wherein some make it their glory rather newly to invent, then rightly to believe, what the Scriptures deliver, and the Church of Christ from the beginning received, and reverenced as principles of Christian truth and piety.  
The next point, to wit that by your new found Rules, you make Christ's flesh needless to our redemption, you grant is an 
m Defence pag. 55. ●…. 29.  horrible heresy; but you ask how it followeth upon your words] I did not charge you with maintaining purposely that wicked heresy, but with reasoning so foolishly, & speaking so unadvisedly, that without your direct meaning, that error was consequent to your words. You would feign see how. Truly it followeth stronger upon your words than I would wish, or you are ware. For whatsoever was by God's ordinance needful to the work of our redemption, that made properly to our redemption. But the sufferings of Christ's soul by or from the body (which you call by Sympathy) did not make properly to our Redemption, as you say: ergo the sufferings of Christ's Soul by or from his body were not needful to the work of our Redemption. Now if the sufferings of Christ's flesh were not needful to our Redemption, than was his flesh needless for our Redemption by your illation. Which of these propositions can you avoid, but they are either plainly true, as the Mayor: or fully yours, as all the rest? Our Redemption being no natural thing, but wholly depending on the counsel and will of God; whatsoever God appointed as necessary for our Redemption, that most properly made to our Redemption; and things needless could not appertain thereto, but improperly. Of all men you may not start from this force of the word PROPER. For with you, improper wrath is no wrath, improper punishment is no punishment, and therefore improper belonging to our Redemption, is no belonging at all, but needless to our Redemption. And since Christ's sufferings in his body by your assertion, did not make properly to our Redemption; it is evident they were needless to our Redemption: and if the sufferings of his flesh were needless, the flesh itself was needless to our Redemption, even by your own Conclusions. For 
n Trea. pa. 17. ●…. 1●….  Christ (you say) assumed not our Nature, nor any part of it, but only to suffer in it properly and immediately, even for the very purchasing our Redemption therebyOtherwise he had NO NEED to assume both, but either the one part or the other. You hear your own Doctrine, that except Christ suffered properly and immediately in either part of our nature for the purchasing of our Redemption thereby, he had NO NEED to assume both. But Christ suffered not properly and immediately in his flesh for the purchasing of our Redemption thereby, if your words be true, that bodily sufferings properly made not to our Redemption: He had no need therefore to assume flesh, in which he suffered nothing, that properly made to our Redemption. Here are the cartropes of your own collections; the sequels whereof if you deny, you must recall your own answers and arguments, so peremptorily pronounced in your Treatise.  
How false your Resolutions are, and how dissonant from the sacred Scriptures, will easily appear to him, that hath but half an eye. For the sufferings of Christ's body were not decreed by God to make no more to our Redemption, than Christ's 
o Defenc. pa. 55. l●…. 37.  hunger or his 
o Defenc. pa. 55. l●…. 37.  sleep, which are your Resemblances; but they were directly intended by God himself in Christ's incarnation, and expressly foreshowed by the mouths of his Prophets, and necessarily to be borne in the body of Christ, before we could be redeemed, in respect of Gods will so settled and revealed. The Apostle to the Hebrews going about to prove that Christ was to offer his body and shed his blood for our sanctification and Redemption, layeth this for the ground; 
p Hebr. 8.  Every high Priest is ordained to offer gifts and Sacrifices. Wherefore it was of NECESSITY, that this Man (Christ) should have somewhat to offer. For (else) he were not a Priest. And concluding what must be offered; Christ (saith he) being 
q Hebr. 9  an high Priest of good things to come, by his own blood entered in once into the holy place, and found eternal Redemption for us. Wherefore 
r Hebr. 10.  when (Christ) cometh into the world, he saith; Sacrifice and offering (which are offered by the Law) thou wouldst not, but a body hast thou ordained me; then said I, Lo I come to do thy will, O God. By the which will we are sanctified, even by the offering of the body of jesus Christ once. The suffering of Christ's body and shedding of his blood were exactly purposed, and openly revealed in Christ's incarnation, as the WILL OF GOD for our Redemption; and the offering of Christ's body on the Cross WAS OF NECESSITY, as the Apostle teacheth. Our Saviour said as much; when he 
s Matth. 16.  
s Mark. 8.  
s Luk. 9  began to show his Disciples, that he must suffer many things of the Elders, and of the high Priests, and Scribes, and be shine, and rise again the third day. And when they had forgotten his words, the Angels put them in mind thereof after his resurrection, bidding them 
t Luk. 24. v. 7.  remember, how he spoke unto you saying, the Son of man MU BE delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. And when some of them reporting how he was condemned to death by the Rulers and crucified, scant believed he was risen again, himself said unto them; 
u Luke. 24. v. 25. 26.  O fools, and slow of hart to believe all, that the Prophets have spoken. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And to all his Apostles; 
x Vers. 46.  Thus it is written, and THUS ought CHRIST TO HAVE SUFFERED. So that Christ's bodily sufferings for our Redemption were foreshowed by the Prophets, and OF NECESSITY to be performed by Christ, in regard they were FOREDECREED of God, as a part of the ransom for our sins. For though Pilate with the 
y Acts 4. vers. 28.  Gentiles and the people of Israel gathered themselves together against jesus, yet did they nothing to him but whatsoever the hand and counsel of God determined before to be done. What greater necessity or propriety can you prove by the Scriptures for any other things, which you dream the Soul of Christ suffered from the immediate hand of God? If these things did not properly make for our Redemption, but indirectly and secondarily and by consequent as you prate; show by the word of God, that your hell pains pertained more directly to our redemption then these things, which the Scripture speaketh of. But with your rabble of insolent and impertinent terms you come right within Tertullia's Rule. 
z Tertullian adverse. haereticos. cap. 2●….  You believe (these things) without the Scriptures, that you may believe (them) against the Scriptures. Yea, 
a Hilarius ad Constant●…um August.  with a magniloquent vanity you delude the ears of the simple with deceitful words, whiles you shun to believe that of Christ, which he hath taught to be believed of himself.  
It may be, that answerable to the rest of your Idle shifts, you will now say, Christ's bodily 
The Souls suffering by Sympathy ●… the Defenders own phrase.  sufferings made directly and properly to our Redemption, but the Souls suffering them by Sympathy did not.] This is an other of your own phrases brought in of purpose by you to blind the simple, and to brabble with the learned. What you mean by Sympathy knoweth no man but yourself. And therefore if that word have in it any ambiguity, the fault is yours, who first used it, and not mine. I teach as Nature and Scripture do warrant me, that the Soul of man suffereth, as well by the force of her sense, as of her understanding; and to the body of itself, I attribute neither motion, sense, nor life, but all these are the powers and effects of the Soul in the Body; and so is pain an impression on the Soul from or by the Body. As therefore the Soul seeth the works of God by the eyes of her body, and heareth his words by the ears of her flesh, and neither of these by Sympathy: so the whole body and every part thereof serveth as an Instrument, or a mean for the Soul to feel in herself, and not by Sympathy, the touch of God's hand upon the body. Had the Body sense of itself without or besides the operation of the Soul, then might it justly be called a Sympathy, for the one to feel what the other suffereth and feeleth, as friends do, that are like affected each with other: but because all discerning by sense in man's body is proper to the Soul, I do not see how the Soul should be exactly said to discern and feel by Sympathy those things, which the body receiveth; but rather by her original and natural faculty of suffering from and by the Body, with which she is joined to do all in the body, and suffer all from the body. Howbeit I strive not about the word, which some learned men have used for the Communion of suffering between the Soul and the Body; but only note that the word was first uttered by you, not by me; and therefore if you cavil with the signification of that word, you Cavil with yourself and not with me. It sufficeth for me, that not only Christians but even miscreants, by the pains of their body have perceived and acknowledged the hand of God upon themselves. The 
b job. 19  hand of God hath touched me, saith job, when he was spoiled of all his goods, and his body blasted by Satan with a sore disease. David in a sharp sickness, that consumed his bones, and turned his moisture into the drought of Summer, said to God; 
c Psal. 32.  thine hand is heavy upon me. Yea the Philistimes of Ashdod, Gath and Ekron, when they were plagued with Emerods' for detaining the Ark of God, could say, 
d 1. Sam. 5. v. 6.  his hand is sore upon us. And so much Paul told Elimas' the Sorcerer, when he withstood the preaching of the Faith; Behold the 
e Acts 13.  hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind. Of Christ then there can be no doubt, but he felt the hand, and beheld the counsel of God in all, that the jews did unto him; which whether you may call a suffering by Sympathy or no, maketh nothing to my Question or purpose. It is evident by the Scriptures that God by these outward pains urgeth the Souls of his Servants to seek him; and Christ without urging, submitted himself to the cruel and bloody rage of the jews, as to God's decree and ordinance for our Redemption; who 
f john 19  could have no power at all against (him) unless it had been given (them) from above.  
Hence you go to examine the derivation of sin from Adam, the satisfaction for sin by Christ, the beginning of sin in the first man, and the continuing thereof in us all: matters of good weight and worthy due consideration; wherein if either you did understand what I said, or not so hastily catch after shows, that as soon deceive you, I should need fewer words to repress your follies. But such is your course and custom, that you fly after feathers, and think you get great purchases. In your Treatise you framed an objection in my name, as if I had reasoned, that 
g Trea. pag. 19 li 7.  Adam's sin was propagated into us not by our Souls, but only by our flesh, which only we derive from him: and therefore Christ only by his flesh and not by his Soul procured satisfaction for us. Indeed I might have said that our Bodies, and not our Souls, are derived from Adam, and showed the consent of Scriptures, Fathers, and the best writers on every side, as well Protestants and Papists, as Pagan Philosophers all joining in that opinion; but I thought not good then to trouble the people with that Question: and therefore I rested on a known and confessed principle of Christian truth and faith, that we inherit pollution and death from Adam's flesh, without resolving whence the Soul cometh, which I did refrain before the multitude to speak of. And since by the Scriptures the first Adam was a 
h Rom. 5. v. 14.  figure of the second, the flesh of Christ given for us must be as able to cleanse and quicken us, as Adam's flesh was to defile and kill us. To this reason you here pike many quarrels, but in the end you slide it of, as else where answered. Your first quarrel is, that I force, what I promised to forbear, even the difficulty whence the Soul of man is derived. As though the grounds of our Faith might be doubted, because that Question in former times was undecided? That we derive flesh from Adam, and have men for the Fathers of our bodies, did never man yet, that was in his right wits, call in Question, were he Christian or Heretic, jew, Turk, or Pagan. That likewise we derive with our flesh pollution and death from Adam, the faith of Christ rightly grounded on the Scriptures doth not suffer us to stagger at, though whence our Souls are given us, some have stood perplexed. You think it much I should deliver the one, which is the pollution of our flesh professing not to determine the other; and make it in me a kind of inconstancy to urge the propagation of the flesh with her sequels, of which no Christian may doubt, because I thought it not fit to trouble the people with the derivation of the Soul. But so hath the Church of Christ always done; it hath clearly confessed the derivation of sin and death from Adam, and made it necessary for all Christian men so to believe, though some would not hastily, or could not easily resolve the doubt, whence the Soul cometh.  

l Defenc. pa. 57 li. 3.  If our Souls arise in Generation from Adam, as well as our flesh, how can your reason be good by any possibility?] The conceit that our Souls are engendered together with the 
The Soul is not derived from the Fathers of our Bodies.  seed of our bodies, is so gross and pestilent an error, and so repugnant to all authority human and Divine, and so dissident from daily experience, that I had no cause to make that a Question in Religion, or therein to refrain the audience of the people. 
k Ambros. de Noah & arca. cap. 4.  Ex nullo homine generantur Animae. Souls are not generated from any man, saith Ambrose: 
l Clemens Stromat. li. 6.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The principal faculty of the soul, saith Clemens Alexandrinus, by which we have discourse of reason, is not engendered by projection of seed. 
m Hilarius de Trinitate. li. 10.  Anima utique nunquam ab homine gignentium originibus prebetur. The soul never cometh from man in the generation of men, saith Hilary. jerom upon those words of Solomon, the spirit (of man) after death returneth to God that gave it, writeth thus: 
n Hieronym●… in Ecclesiast. cap. 12.  Ex quo satis ridendi sunt, qui putant animas cum corporibus seri; & non à Deo, sed à corporum parentibus generari. Whereby they are worthy to be thoroughly derided, which think souls to be sown together with bodies, and not to be from God, but to be generated by the parents of (our) body. For since the flesh returneth to the earth, and the spirit to God that gave it, IT IS MANIFEST, that God is the Father of our souls, and not Man. And when Ruffinus professed he could not tell how the soul came to be joined with the body, whether by propagation from Man, or infusion from God; jerom replieth: If (the soul) 
o Idem Apologia 2. advers. Ruffinum.  come by propagation, than the souls of men, which we grant are eternal, and the bruit beasts, which die with the body, have one condition. And dost thou marvel that the (Christian) brethren are scandalised at thee, when thou swearest thou knowest not that, which the Churches of Christ confess they know? Theodoret in many places giveth the like testimony: 
p Theodoret. divinorum decretorum Epitome li. 5. cap. de homine.  The Church believing the divine Scriptures, saith, the soul was (and is) created as well as the body, not having any cause of her creation from natural seed, but from the creators will, after the body once perfectly made. The most divine Moses writeth, that Adam's body was first made, and afterward his soul inspired into him, Again in his laws the same Prophet plainly teacheth us, that the body is first made, and then the soul created and infused. And blessed job spoke thus to God: Didst thou not power me forth like milk, and thicken me like curds of cheese? thou didst cloth me with skin and flesh; and compact me with bones and sinews. And when by this job had showed the frame of his body to be first made, he addeth a thanksgiving for his soul, saying; Life and mercy thou laidest with me, and thy watchfulness preserved my spirit. 
q Idem. deprovident.  This confession touching the soul and body of man, the Church hath learned from the divine Scriptures. The same reasons and resolutions he repeateth elsewhere in his fifth 
r Idem de depro●…dent Craecorum affect ib. Sermo. 5.  sermon touching the nature of man. Leo the great: The 
s Le●…. epist. 93. a●… Turibium ca 10.  Catholic faith doth constantly and truly preach, that the souls of men were not before they were inspired into their bodies; nec ab also incorporentur nisi ab opifice Deo; neither are put into the body by any other workman than God. And Austen himself, who to decline that difficulty, how the soul cometh to be infected with original sin, was the first that made this doubt, whether the soul were created and infused, or else derived from the soul, though not by the seed of the parents; refuseth Tertullias opinion, That the soul riseth from the seed of the body, as perverse and strange to the Church of Christ: 
t August. epist. 157. ad Optat.  They, saith he, which affirm souls to be drawn from the parents, if they follow Tertullia's opinion, took them to be (in some sort) bodies, & corpulentis seminibus exoriri, and to rise from the seed of the body; quo quid perversius dici potest? than the which what can be said more perverse? Now in Austin's rehearsal of heresies, Tertullia's assertion, That the soul was a (kind of) body, is excused as no heresy; but his conceit, That 
u August. de 〈◊〉 Tertullian.  the state of the soul is propagated by traduction (of seed) is expressly put amongst his 
u August. de 〈◊〉 Tertullian.  errors.  
From these ancient Fathers serve not the best of our new writers. Bullinger: 
x Bulling. decadu. 4. Serm. 10.  All those (other) opinions have been refuted with sound reasons by the writers Ecclesiastical, and that received and avouched for the truest, which teacheth the soul to be created of nothing, and to be infunded into the body from God, when the child hath his perfect shape in his mother's womb. And that we are not at this day otherwise created of God, than by infunding the soul into the body first fashioned, job is a most plentiful witness, where he saith: Thine hands (o God) have made me, and fashioned me wholly. Didst thou not struck me like milk, and cured me like cheese? with skin and flesh thou coveredst me, with bones and sinews thou jointedst me. Lo here the conception and formation of man's body in his mother's womb most excellently described. It followeth now in jeb touching the soul: Life and mercy thou hast given me, and thy visitation hath kept my spirit. Behold life, that is the soul, infused of God into the body already framed. Therefore rightly and according to the Scriptures do we hold, that men's souls are created of God, and inf●…nded into their bodies perfectly framed before in the womb. calvin: 
y calvinus in epist. ad Heb. cap. 12.  God is the Father as well of the soul as of the body; and the only Father, if we speak properly: yet because in creating souls he useth not the (service, or) work of man, after a peculiar manner, by a kind of excellency, he is called the Father of spirits. Beza: 
z Be Za in lihello Qu●…stionum & Responsionum.  I think not good to dissemble this, that the doctrine of traducing the soul, (from the parents) seemeth to me very absurd, because either the whole, or a part must be traduced. If the whole, the fathers of force must presently dic, (having wholly lost their souls:) If a part, how can a part be cut off from a simple (and spiritual) substance? Vrsinus: 
a Vrsin. tract. Theolog. de peccate.  We grant the souls of all men are created of God, when they begin to live; for they at one time are created, and united to the body. Zanchius: 
b Zanchius de 〈◊〉, Dei part 3. li. 2. cap. 4.  That the whole soul is created by God, I believe, confess, and teach with the whole Church, and avouch it may be proved by firm reasons. His reasons are largely delivered in the fifth chapter of the same book, and all that can be said for generation and propagation of souls against their creation by the immediate work of God without any human means, is there learnedly and sufficiently refuted. So that in respect of Austin's doubt, whether God derive the soul from the souls of the parents, when he putteth it into the body being first finished, or createth it of nothing, as he did Adam's soul, I did relinquish that in question; but as for the souls rising in and by generation from Adam, which you now catch hold of, I never meant to favour that fancy so much as to make it any question in matters of faith; since with one consent Philosophy, Physic, evident experience, and the Scriptures themselves convince that to be an erroneous and manifest untruth.  

c Defenc. pa. 57 l. 8.  I have showed before at large, that your Minor is nothing true: for pollution that is sin and real iniquity is not in our flesh without a soul.] You said so much in effect before in your Treatise, and if your word be a proof, you have showed it; but other proof you bring none, save that which inclineth rather to heresy then Christianity, if you speak to the purpose, and stand to your words as they lie either in your Treatise, or in your Defence. In your Treatise you say, 
d Trea. pa. 21. li. 28.  Let us not be curious in this hard point, holding this most evident truth, that sin is a proper and unseparable quality of the soul, and can not be found being in any thing, where a reasonable soul is wanting.] If you take the word sin in his right sense, as you ought to do speaking of the propagation of sin, and so comprise in it as well original as actual sin; here are two gross errors even against the Christian faith. For if sin can not be found in any thing, where a reasonable soul is wanting; then can no sin be found in the devils, for they have no souls. 
e August. Retract. li. 1. cap. 11.  Angels to have souls I do not remember that ever I read in the divine and canonical Scriptures, saith Austen. If Angels have not souls, than devils have none; for they were holy, and now are reprobate, but still Angels, as Christ calleth the devil and his Angels. Again, sin being either actual or original; children in their mother's 
f Matth. 25.  womb have not actual sin, neither dispute we of actual sin, when we talk of deriving and inheriting sin; for actual sin is neither derived, nor inherited. If then that, which is conceived, have no original sin so long as the soul wanteth; since you 
g Trea. pa. 21. li. 4.  content yourself, as you say, with the opinion of the most at this present, that the soul doth not pass together with the seed of our generation and conception; most evidently you deny original sin, till the soul come to quicken the body; and so contradict the express words of David, who saith, He was 
h Psal. 51.  begotten in sin and conceived in iniquity. No marvel than you stumble at Ambroses words, that we are 
i Ambros. in Apologia David. cap. 11.  defiled, before we hau●… life, as repugnant to your purpose; when you spare not David's words, who saith as much, if not more than Ambrose.  
I 
k Defenc. pag. 5●…. li. 10.  pray omit men's Authorities in this case, and prove by sound reason, that which you would. For pollution that is sin and real iniquity, is not in our flesh without a soul.] We were best to omit all learning, experience, and truth; that only your conceits may stand upright. It hath pleased God in things natural, by sight and experience to lead Philosophers and Physicians to the truth of his works; as far as man's wit can reach; and with one consent they resolve, that the reasonable soul of man neither riseth in the body, nor cometh to the body presently with the conception. Mothers and midwives do certainly distinguish the time of quickening, from the time of conceiving; and he that would persuade them, that the child quickeneth immediately upon the conception, might as easily bring them to believe, that the moon is made of a green cheese. But sound reason you require.] As if truth of experience were not the soundest reason men can give, till God do speak. That the body is not strait way framed upon the conception, many thousand 'scapes in all females, and namely in women do perfectly prove. The Physicians and Philosophers interpose many months between the conception and perfection of the body. job himself declareth that we were first 
l job 10.  as milk, when we were in seed; then 
l job 10.  condensed as curds, when we turned to blood; and after that 
l job 10.  clothed with skin and flesh, and lastly 
l job 10.  compacted with bones and sinews, before we received life and soul from God. The new Testament noteth these three degrees in forming our bodies; to wit, seed, blood, and flesh; and calleth our parents the fathers of our bodies, but not of our spirits, which God alone is. If than nothing can be defiled with sin, as by your doctrine you resolve, except it have a reasonable soul; of necessity we either had reasonable souls at the instant of our conception, which is a most famous falsehood repugnant to all learning, experience, and to the words of job; or else we were not conceived in sin, which is a flat heresy dissenting from the plain words of the sacred Scriptures, and from the Christian faith. Choose which of these issues you will; you either way show yourself to have little sense, and less truth.  
But I must 
m Defenc. pa. 57 li. 13.  add the word only, or else I say nothing against you.] No good Sir, that shall not need. We inherit pollution by Adam's flesh before our Souls come to our bodies; and that sufficeth for my reason, though the pollution, which we inherit, be derived as well from the Souls, as from the Bodies of our Parents; because their bodies, when they begat us, were joined with their Souls, whose natural and animal faculties were still in them wholly corrupted, and their sins communicated unto their bodies, though their spirits were renewed and sanctified. The very Seed, of which we were begotten and conceived, was an unclean thing, (as job calleth it, when he saith; 
n job. 14.  Who can make a clean thing of an unclean?) and corruptible; that is full of Corruption, as Peter nameth it when he saith; 
o 1. Pet. 1.  borne again not of corruptible Seed, of which we were borne by our Parents. The corruption of sin than is first derived by our Bodies, though our Souls be likewise wrapped in the same pollution and condemnation, that our bodies are; and sin still abideth and rebelleth in our flesh so long as we live, though our Souls be washed and cleansed from sin. And therefore the Apostle calleth our flesh, 
p Rom. 8. v. 3.  the flesh of sin, in the similitude of which Christ was sent, and confessed that 
q Rom. 7.  in his flesh dwelled no good thing; assuring us, that though Christ be in us, 
r Rom. 8. v. 10  the body is dead because of sin, when the Spirit is life, (or liveth) because of righteousness. Neither is this news to Zanchius, whom you cite in your Treatise as if he favoured your error. 
s Zanchij tractat. Theolog. cap. 4. de peccato originali.  Quod attinet ad contagium illud, certe citra controversiam, in corpore primum inest, & deinde per corpus in animam derivatur. job docet apart cap. 14. Quis potest facere mundum de immundo conceptum semine? Quid autem proprie de immundo concipitur semine? Caro. As for the contagion (of original sin) that is surely without Question first in the body, and after by the body is derived into the Soul. job teacheth us plainly in his fourteenth Chapter. Who can make one clean, conceived of unclean Seed? Now what is properly conceived of unclean Seed? Flesh. If any man list to read more I remit him to that place of Zanchius, lest I should be overlong; or else to Peter Martyr where he largely treateth thereof against Pigghius. 
t Pet. Martyr ●…ocis communibus class. second loco primo Sectio. 26.  The common received Opinion is (saith he) that the Soul draweth original sin by her conjunction with the body, which is infected and vitiated from our Parents. Wherefore if any ask, what is the seat or subject thereof, (as they use to speak;) We answer, that original sin hath place in the flesh as in the root, and beginning thereof: afterward from that fountain, it occupieth the Soul, and so is extended through the whole man. Idcirco semen est instrumentum quo hoc peccatum ex parentibus traducitur in filios. Therefore the Seed (of man) is the instrument whereby this sin is traduced from the Parents to the children. And lest he should seem to rest himself on the received opinion only, not long after he addeth. 
u Idem Sectione. 30.  Now reasons are to be brought, which may firmly and sound prove, that original sin is propagated in men by Seed and generation. And that we will therefore show out of the Scriptures, because many reclaim and think this whole matter to be a fiction.  

x Defenc. pag. 57 l. 19  With one breath you overthrow yourself. For you say we have pollution before the soul cometh, whence soever it cometh. Yea, whence soever? What if the soul do come in and by generation? you see how you cross yourself.] To that perverse and false supposition of yours, that the soul of man cometh in and by generation, which now you cleave so fast unto for an advantage, I never gave any allowance or forbearance. Look to my words as narrowly as you can. I say, the minor (proposition of my reason) is clear 
y Conclus. pa. 252. l. 25.  without intermeddling with the question, whence, (not when) the soul cometh. I there resolve, that the soul is the life of the body, not of seed nor of blood, as you grossly would wrest my speech; and therefore before life come, the soul which bringeth life, cometh not to the body. Then if pollution cleave to the flesh before life come, (as Ambrose teacheth) and consequently before the soul come, (which cometh not before the body is made, as I avouch) whence soever it cometh; it is evident that Adam's flesh defileth, and so condemneth us (before the soul come.) You in the abundance of your wit, take whence soever to be as much as when soever; and so by your misconceiving you would fasten a contradiction to my words. But coaxe not yourself with such contrarieties grounded upon your own most ignorant mistaking; I made no question of the time, when; but of the root, whence, the soul cometh. I learned by Leo, that 
z I●…o. epist. 93. ad Furibium.  the Catholic faith did truly and constantly teach, that the souls of men were not before they were inspired into their bodies: and consequently the body must first be framed, before the soul can be inspired. And the contrary conceit, which you now take hold on, is a manifest repugnancy to the Church, and faith of Christ. I saw that inconvenience which you see not, when you pronounce, sin is not in our flesh without a soul, that is neither before, nor after the soul. For if the soul of man arise in and BY GENERATION, and that can be no man which never had man's body; what kind of creatures, I pray you, call you those abortions and 'scapes, that pass from their mothers, when they are yet but seed or blood, before the body be framed? Souls they have, in and by generation, as you now suppose; bodies they have none, that be human. Men therefore they be not for want of bodies; other kinds they are not, seeing they have souls; what name then will you give to these unfashioned births, having reasonable and immortal spirits as you imagine, or what place will you assign them after this life? 
a 2. Cor. 5.  We all must appear before the Tribunal of Christ, every one to receive things done (in or) by his body. They have nothing to receive for any thing done in or by their bodies, which they never had; neither can they expect the resurrection of the body, which pertaineth not to them. 
b 1. Cor. 15.  It is sown (saith the Apostle) a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. These have no natural bodies of men, and so shall never rise with spiritual and glorified bodies; yea they have no part in Christ's resurrection, which was corporal, since they do not communicate with him in their bodies, which may be conformed to his glorious body. You must then devise some new name, and some new place for those new creatures of yours, which having no bodies of men, can not by the Scriptures look either for the resurrection, or for the salvation promised to men.  
You do not avouch it, you will say, you did but object it.] Your most evident truth, as you call it, that sin cannot be found being in any thing, where a reasonable soul is wanting, doth directly infer, that either we were not begotten and conceived in sin, which is an evident heresy, repugnant to David's words; or else the untimely fruits and 'scapes of women, have reasonable souls at the very instant of their conception, when sin is found in them by David's words, which is this gross, absurd, and false conceit, that now you would shun. If you fly for help to actual sin; have children actual sin in their mother's wombs, or as soon as they have reasonable souls? Or is actual sin traduced and inherited from Adam? or spoke I of actual sin when I said, we inherit pollution from Adam's flesh before the soul cometh? Will you stick to it, and say; original pollution is no sin? David convinceth you, who saith, he was 
c Psal. 51.  begotten in sins, and conceived in iniquity; and Paul affirmeth that 
d Rom. 5. v. 12.  death went over all men, (infants not excepted) for so much as all men have sinned, and even over them also who 
e Vers. 14.  sinned not after the likeness of Adam's transgression; that is, who did not commit sin as Adam did, actually and voluntarily; but naturally inherited sin from Adam, which 
f Rom. 4. v. 20.  dwelleth in them from the hour of their conception, to the time of their dissolution; and 
g Verse 23.  worketh the evil in them that they would not; leading them captive to the law of sin which is in their members.  
But how could David say, he was conceived in sin, when at the time of his conception he had neither body nor soul?] Howsoever man's reason judge thereof, which yet often giveth the name of the whole to a part, and the titles of things represented to their images; with God nothing is more frequent than 
h Rom. 4. v. 17  to call those things which are not, as though they were; because he not only made all things of nothing, but quickeneth the dead, and hath things past and to come present before him. Levi is said by the Scripture to have 
i Hebr. 7.  paid tithes to Melchisedech by Abraham, as being then in Abraham's loins, when Levies grandfather was not yet borne. So God by his Prophet spoke to Cyrus many years before Cyrus was borne, calling him his anointed, and saying to him by name, 
k Esa. 44. & 45.  thou art my shepherd. So certain is the counsel of God, and his purpose so immutable, that he speaketh in the Scriptures of things to come, as if they were past or present. Out of this infallible decree of God, David and job call that seed which was prepared to be the matter of their bodies, by the names of themselves, because it could not be altered, what God had appointed. But the void conceptions of women, which miscarry before the body be framed, never had either life or soul; and so neither name, nor kind; but perish as other superfluous burdens and repletions of the body, which God hath appointed to no use, save to ease the body.  
In satisfaction for sin you run the same course that you do in the rest: for neither understanding my words, nor almost any man's else rightly, you fight with your own fancies, as if they were parts of my faith. I said, the Scripture acknowledgeth no satisfaction for sin but by death. I did and do so say; what then? 
m Defenc. ●…ag. 57 li. 26.  Still we must note, that by death you mean only the bodily death.] In Christ's person I always mean by the death which he suffered, the death of the body; though you would include the death of the soul, which I do not. In the wicked I take death for all kinds of death, corporal, spiritual, and eternal. What can you hence distil? Then 
n Defenc. pag. 57 li 32.  surely the wicked should satisfy easily for their sins. far be it from me to utter such a sentence.] Do the wicked with any kind of death satisfy for their sins? or is their condemnation to hell pains therefore eternal, because by no death they can satisfy for their sins? Were the justice of God once satisfied by any thing the wicked could suffer, their torments should cease; but their punishments everlastingly continue, for that no satisfaction can be made to God by them, suffer they never so much, or never so long. Whose folly then is it, to pronounce, that the wicked may satisfy for their sins? mine or yours? I said no such word; I directly avouched the contrary. 
o Serm. pag. 43. li. 23.  The pains of hell have neither worth nor weight sufficient in themselves, to satisfy the anger, or to procure the favour of God. Satisfaction for sin I ascribe to none but only to Christ, and in him to no death but only to that of his body. Will it thence follow, the Scripture acknowledgeth no satisfaction but by (some kind of) death: ergo the wicked may satisfy for their sins by the deaths which they suffer? Be it far from all wise men to make such consequents, and from all Christian men to make such conclusions. The antecedent in effect is confessed by yourself. 
p Defenc. pag. 58. li. 20.  The Scriptures (you say) do show indeed that Christ should not satisfy without death. I said the same. By satisfaction, I meant full satisfaction, when no more could be exacted, as the word importeth; and not the concurrents or precedents to satisfaction, when the chiefest is unpayed. Why then doth your absurd and lewd conclusion follow more upon my words than upon your own?  
My proofs are not good, with those you find fault.] If yours were no worse, they would go more currently. The Apostle saith: Christ is the 
q Hebr. 9  Mediator of the new Testament, that through death, which was for the redemption of transgressions, we might receive the promise. here death is avouched to be the redemption, which is all one with satisfaction, for sin: for wherewith we are redeemed, therewith God is satisfied. 
r Defenc. pag. 58. li. 3.  Christ's bodily death merely and alone (you say) without any thing else together therewith (which is my intent) is not here mentioned.] You will not tell where your shoe wringeth. Death was for the redemption or satisfaction for sin saith the Scripture. Now the death of Christ's body, or of his soul, or of both, must here be contained. The death of Christ's soul you dare not openly profess, and therefore all this while you carry it covertly under the sufferings of Christ's soul. But you must come plainly to it: for these assertions of the Apostle; 
s Hebr. 9  Death was the redemption of our transgressions, and we are 
t Rome 5.  reconciled to God by the death of his Son, will make this to be the question, as I first set it; whether the death of Christ's soul, or the death of the damned, which is the true pains of hell be a necessary part of Christ's satisfaction and our Redemption. Other sufferings of the Soul are mere shifts to harbour your folly, if you strive in words; or your impiety, if you strive indeed for the death of Christ's Soul, as requisite by the Scriptures to our Salvation. That Christ did not die the death of the Soul I do not prove; there is no cause I should, it is your assertion that he did, and must be proved by you; which you be so far from coming near, that you purposely conceal it, and only skirre at it here and there in SOME KIND OF SENSE. Otherwise you offer nothing as yet to the Reader, but the 
u Defenc. pa. 58. li. 35.  proper sufferings of the soul; which I trust are not always privation of grace, and exclusion from bliss. For so the faithful should never have any proper sufferings of the Soul, or else utterly lose both the spirit and favour of God, which they never do.  
The other Authority which I cite, (In the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt die the death) is not so sound you think. For 
x Defenc. pa. 57 li. 31.  am I sure that death here is but the bodily death only and no more? I no where say, that death threatened in these words was only the death of the body; it is one of your rash and rude illations, it is none of my assertions. I knew that God gave this Commandment, and threatened this punishment as well to Adam's posterity, as to his person. Otherwise had this prohibition been made to Adam alone, neither could the woman have been within the compass of it, who was not then created when this precept was enjoined, neither could Adam's offspring have tasted of death, as well as Adam, if this penalty had stretched no farther than to Adam's person. But he being the root and stock of all mankind, as he received blessings by his creation, which should be common to all that descended of him, so by his transgression he lost them as well from his Issue, as from himself, and subjecteth them to the same death and condemnation, that he did himself, when he rebelled against God his Creator. Death we see executed on all the children of Adam; and therefore we may not doubt but death was threatened to them all, before it was inflicted on them. Howbeit the commination in this place is like to God's th●…eats in all other places against the transg●…ssours of his Law. It denounceth what shall ●…e due unto all, but it bindeth not God, that he shall not have power to release, or mitigate what, and to whom pleaseth him. In death then here threatened I contain all kinds of death; corporal, spiritual, and eternal; either as expressed in the general name of death, which is common to them all, or as consequent each to other and coherent, if by God's goodness and mercies in Christ jesus they be not severed. Saint Austen learnedly and truly teacheth the same. 
y August. decivitate Det. li. 13. cap. 12.  When it is asked, what death God threatened to the first men, if they transgressed the Commandment given them, whether the death of the body, or of the soul, or of the whole man, or that which is called the second death; we must answer, ALI. When therefore God said to the first man, what day soever ye eat thereof, ye shall die the death, that threatening contained what soever death there is even unto the last, which is called the second death, and after which there is none other.  
If any man stand more strictly on the time and kind of death, when and which Adam should die by this Commination; Saint Austen hath an other answer. 
z August. decivitate Dei. li. 13. cap. 15.  In that which was said ye shall die the death, because it was not said, deaths; if we understand that only death whereby the soul is forsaken of her life, which to her is God; (for she was not forsaken, that she might forsake, but she did (first) forsake that she might (after) be forsaken) though I say we understand, that God denounceth this death, when he said, what day ye eat thereof, ye shall die the death; as if God had said, what day ye forsake me by disobedience, I will forsake you by justice; Surely in that death were the rest denounced, which without Question were to follow. For even in that a disobedient motion rose in the flesh of the Soul disobeying, for which they covered their privy parts, one death was perceived, wherein God forsook the Soul. And when the Soul forsook the body now corrupted with time, and wasted with age, an other death was found by experience, which God mentioned to Man, when punishing sin he said, earth thou art, and to earth shalt thou return: that by these two deaths that first death of the whole man might be accomplished, which the second death at last doth follow, except man be delivered by the grace of God. By Saint Austin's judgement concording with the Scriptures, God threatened all kinds of death to the transgressor; the death of the Soul the same hour to take place that he disobeyed; the rest to follow in their order; as next the death of the body, and at last eternal death of body and soul, if the grace of God by jesus Christ did not release and free man from it. That the death of the Soul took present hold upon the disobeyers, the Scripture giveth testimony sufficient, when it noteth their shame, fear, and flight of God's presence, who before sin was their delight, joy and bliss. The death of the body was a long time differred in Adam, even 
a Gen. 5. v. 5.  nine hundred and thirty years, before it did separate his Soul from his Body, but it began presently to work and show his force in either of their bodies. 
b Theodoret an Genes. Que●…. 38.  The sentence of mortality God called Death, saith Theodoret. For after God's sentence Adam every day expected (or feared) Death. Beda saith the like. That which God said, 
c 〈◊〉 Gen●…●…2.  In what day soever thou shalt eat thereof, thou shalt die the Death, was as if he had said, Morti deputatus eris, thou shalt be deputed (or adjudged) to death, not that he should that very day die, but be mortal. Chrysostom embraceth the same opinion. 
d Chr●…●…n 〈◊〉.  In what d●…y soever ye shall eat of the tree, ye shall die the Death. But Adam lived still; how then died he? By the sentence of God and the nature of the thing itself. For he that maketh himself subject to punishment, is under pun●…shment, sinonre, tamen sententia; If not by deed and execution, yet by guiltiness and sentence pronounced.  
So that if we will rightly conceive God's commination to Adam, we must so take the words of God, as threatening Adam and his posterity with all kinds of death, to which they all should be subject as guilty thereof and deserving the same; though he would keep to himself the dispensing and moderating thereof, not binding himsel●…e thereby but the offenders, as every supreme judge doth on earth after sentence given, and before execution finished. Else, if we ●…e God, who is truth itself, to the rigour and tenor of those words without reserving power to him to dispose of Adam and Adam's offspring at his pleasure; and in the words, Thou shalt die the death, comprise the execution of all sorts of death, which can not be revoked: then we conclude Adam and all his issue without remedy or mercy under all sorts of death, that is under spiritual, corporal, and eternal death; which is not only an utter overthrow to all Christian ●…eligion, promising salvation in jesus Christ, but a mecre madness against all mankind, devoting them without exception or mitigation to eternal destruction of body and soul. We must therefore know that God truly and justly threatened Adam, and in him all mankind to be guilty of all so●…ts of death, and to be thereto subjecteth as to their due, if they transgressed against him; but this commination neither included execution of all sorts of death on all mankind, nor excluded pardon where pleased God; only thence may rightly be gathered; fi●…st, that all Ada●… of spring should be condemned and subjecteth to the guilt of all, as deserving all the one no less than the other. Secondly, that some of Adam's issue should effectual feel the sting of all, which God allotted to the reprobate. Thirdly, that even the elect as well as the reprobate, should bear in themselves the monuments of this transgression by the corruption & dissolution of their nature, though the one should in this life be reform by the working of God's spirit in them, and the other be restored after this life by the Resurrection from the dead. All these we find performed by God in the truth of his judgements, and therefore we may be sure they were intended at the time of his threatening. And consequently this collection is very true, that God threating Adam with these words, Thou shalt die the death; purposed, if Adam transgressed, that none of his posterity should escape the death of their bodies, to which, God forthwith punishing sin, irrevocably subjecteth Adam and all his children, as Gods own words declare, when he said to Adam, and in him to all men, 
e Genes. 3.  Dust thou art and to dust shalt thou return. The judges revenge then for sin, which we deserved and to which we were justly condemned, was temporal & eternal death, of the body and soul, here and in hell. But this was not executed on all, because some were freed by the favour of God in jesus Christ, though none excused from a corporal death; which proveth my position the truer, that God never released sin to any, no not to his own Son, without some kind of death.  
It 
f Defen●… pa●…. 58. li. 7.  must not be forgotten, that here you renounce all satisfaction for sin, in respect of merit as from Christ's soul utterly.] If you mean I utterly renounce all satisfaction for sin as from the death of Christ's soul, I easily grant it; and would gladly hear what you can say against it, because the soul of Christ, as I believe, could not die the death of spirits. But if you conceive; that Christ's soul had neither part, sense, nor merit in the death of his body, by which satisfaction for sin was fully made, it is the weamishnesse of your wit to mistake so much, and understand so little. I attributed all sense of pain as well in death as other wise to the soul of Christ; and the death of his body I communicated to his soul, by reason it is a separation of the soul from the body, not thereby to be deprived of sense or grace, which Christ's soul could not be, but therein to feel the pain and sting which the death of the body brought with it. I told you but the 
g Conclus. pag. 251.  leaf before out of Austen; that 
h August. de civitate Dei. l. 21. cap. 3.  the pain which is called bodily, belongeth rather to the soul, and that the 
i E●…. li. 14. ca 15  pain of the flesh is only the offending (or afflicting) the soul by the flesh. Wherefore I made the soul of Christ to be the principal agent in all his meriting, and patient in all his suffering; and though the soul of Christ could not pay the satisfaction for our sins by her death, because she could not die; yet that is no impediment, but the soul of Christ might have, and had the chiefest pain, sense, and merit in the death of Christ's body, by which the whole person made full satisfaction for the sins of the world. And this is so far from renouncing all merit of satisfaction from the soul of Christ, as you conceive, that it ascribeth the whole power and force thereof to the obedience and patience of Christ's soul, and maketh the body the instrument ordained of God to convey pain unto the soul; and to lie dead when the soul is departed from it. As for Bernard's words which I allege, if you did or could tell how they cross mine, I would take the pains to reconcile them; now you say they suit not with mine: but awake out of your wont maze, and you shall see that I give the chief place and part in the meritorious sacrifice unto the soul of Christ, which you dream I do not; as also that you neither like nor allow of Bernard's words. For he declaring the cause and manner, why and how Christ's mind was afflicted in his passion, saith, it was with a 
k Serm. pa. ●…4.  double affection of most human compassion, on the one side, for the uncomfortable grief of the holy women; on the other, for the desperation and dispersion of his disciples. These causes you reject as fond and absurd, and now you would seem to join with Bernard's words. But you must say of him, as you do of Ambrose, and pray that 
l Defenc. pag. 57 li. 10.  men's authorities may be omitted in this case; for all the Fathers of Christ's church are utter strangers or enemies to your new doctrine.  

m Defenc. pa. 58. l. 20.  That nothing may satisfy for sin but death, is not sound; the Scriptures do show indeed that Christ should not satisfy without death: but they deny not, that there are other parts of Christ's satisfaction, which differ from his death, as his bloodshedding, his shame, his 
Every thing in Christ was meritorious, but not satisfactory for sin.  reproaches, his apprehension, his buffeting; and besides that, poverty, hunger, and weariness. These doubtless, yea all other sufferings of Christ what soever, small or great, are satisfactory and meritorious.] That all Christ's actions and passions were meritorious with God, I have no doubt; but that all his sufferings as well natural as voluntary, did every one, small or great, satisfy for sin, This is a speech of yours, which except it be well qualified, hath in it an whole heap of absurdities and contrarieties. For if the least and the first thing that Christ suffered either naturally or voluntarily did satisfy for sin, superfluous were all the rest to our redemption, when God was once satisfied. And so by his birth or circumcision you grant a Supersedeas to all his life and death as needless to our redemption. Then the which what can be more repugnant to the word of God, and faith of Christ, and even to yourself, who by this means make your hell pains of no importance to our salvation? By satisfaction you mean not full satisfaction; but that which any way tendeth to satisfaction, or is requisite before satisfaction can be made.] It is easy and often with you to abuse words, though you talk much of their propriety. What is Satis in Latin, whence to satisfy cometh, but enough? and what is enough for sin, but after which more is not requisite? If then Christ satisfied, that is, did or paid enough for sin by the first of his sufferings, than all that followed, as I inferred, were more then enough, and consequently superfluous. That you will say is the proper and strict signification of the word satisfy, but you take it more largely.] For the abuse of words I will not greatly strive, so you build thereon no impieties; howbeit when I say that nothing might satisfy for sin but death; I take satisfaction properly for the last and full payment, after which no more was due for sin; and that apparently by the Scriptures was the death of Christ, before which the rest was not sufficient, and after which no more was required by the righteous will and counsel of God. So that although the obedience and patience of Christ all his life long did tend to satisfaction, and made way for satisfaction, as his hunger, weariness, poverty, and such like; yet none of these did satisfy for sin, or acquit us from sin by the verdict of the holy Scripture; but Christ after all these must yield himself to suffer that kind of death, which the justice of God should appoint and ordain, before we could be freed from our sins. His blood you think did wash us from all our sins. Because his blood was shed for us even unto death, therefore his bloodshed expresseth the manner of his death, as likewise his apprehension, buffeting, reproaches, and shame; which the Scripture describeth in the order of his death, and therefore compriseth under the name of his death. For by Christ's death, as I have often said, the Scripture meaneth that kind of death in all respects and circumstances, which the Evangelists in their writings report.  

n Defenc. pag. 58. l. 29.  Who will grant in proper speech, that those are his death?] The name of Christ's death in the Scriptures containeth all those things, which were coincident and concurrent to that death, which Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. Neither 
What is contan●… in the name of Christ's death by the Scriptures.  shall we need your figure Synecdoche, by a part of Christ's sufferings to understand all that he felt or suffered from his mother's womb: that is a loose devise of yours to make any thing of every thing; and so to confound the Scriptures, that no man shall know either what to believe, or what to beware. For where S. john saith, the blood of Christ doth cleanse us from all our sins; by your Synecdoche you imagine that the 
o Matth. 26.  wine, which he drank at his last Supper; 
p john. 13.  the water, wherewith he washed his disciples feet; 
q john. 11.  the tears which he shed for Lazarus death; 
r john. 4.  the journey, which he took to Galilee; the 
s Matth. 8.  sleep, which he fetched in the ship; the 
t Matth. 4.  hunger, which he sustained in the wilderness; and what not, should do the like; since every thing that befell our Saviour, small or great, did satisfy for sins, as well as his death and passion. What else is this but to maim and mangle the Scriptures, which name the blood of Christ to be the price of our redemption, and his death the mean of our reconciliation; if every thing that Christ did or endured shall be of the same force and weight to satisfy for sin, that his blood and death were? His blood, you will say, is not his death.] The shedding of his blood unto death, which the Scripture intendeth by his blood, is a plain description of his death: 
u Matth. 26.  This is my blood, said he, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. And the rest which were appendants to his death, express the manner of his death, which the wisdom and justice of God would have to be full of violence, injury, reproach, contempt, shame and pain. All which as they note the manner of his death, so are they enclosed by the Scriptures in the name of his death; and that I trust more properly being parts thereof, than the natural infirmities of his body, as sleep, hunger and weariness; or the voluntary events of his life, as the rest of his actions and passions, long before the hour came that he should be delivered into the hands of sinful men.  

x Defenc. pa. 58 li. 33.  Why may not the proper sufferings of Christ's Soul be as well admitted into the work of Christ's satisfaction, although his SOUL COULD NOT PROPERLY DIE?] The sufferings of Christ's Soul at the time of his death, which the Scriptures mention, we easily admit into the work of his satisfaction for sin; but your satis-fiction of hell pains and of the death of Christ's Soul we do not admit; because the holy Ghost so diligently describing the whole order and manner of Christ's sufferings, when he went to his death, teacheth no such thing as you falsely collect from certain words of his, and chiefly from his bloody sweat; whereof not knowing precisely the cause, you surmise what best pleaseth your humour without all warrant of the word of God. Prove therefore by the Scriptures, and not by your own guesses, that Christ's Soul suffered these things from the immediate hand of God, which you suppose; and we shall soon find a place for them, in the work of Christ's satisfaction for sin. Till then give me leave to expound the Scriptures by themselves, and not by your unjointed and untidie Commentaries confounding Christ's life and death, nature and will, affections and punishments, satisfaction and merits; as if they were not different parts of our salvation, to take our nature upon him, to work all righteousness in our names, to suffer a shameful and painful death for our sins, and to obtain all spiritual and celestial graces and comforts, here and in heaven for us.  
The first sin committed by Adam, and our continual treading in his steps, rest yet undiscussed; wherein we should not need many words, if you could, or at least would rightly conceive what is said; and not ignorantly or purposely mistake, and measure all things by your hasty humour. To prove that Christ must satisfy for sin by the proper sufferings of his Soul, and not with or by his body, you brought this reason in your Treatise. 
y Trea. pa. 19 li. 27.  Whereby Adam first did, and we ever since do most properly commit sin, by the same the second Adam Christ hath made satisfaction for our sins. But Adam first did, and we ever since do most properly commit sin in our Souls, our bodies being but the Instrument of the Soul, and following the Souls direction and will. Therefore Christ in his Soul most properly made satisfaction for us: In my Conclusion to your objections I first denied your Mayor or former proposition. For though the Soul of Adam, as also our Souls quickly might, and worthily did die for sin and by sin, wherein they were the principal agents; yet the Soul of Christ by no warrant of holy Scripture did, or could die the death of Spirits, and so could make no satisction for sin by her death. Now by the Scriptures without death there was no satisfaction for sin: and therefore the soul of Christ must satisfy for sin by the death of her body, & not by any death proper to herself. And so much the Scriptures avouch teaching us, that we have 
z Ephes. 1.  redemption even the remission of sins through his blood, & are 
a Rom. 5.  reconciled to God by the death of his Son: who 
b 1. Pet. 2.  bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might be delivered from sin, and healed with his stripes. And without satisfaction to God for sin we have neither remission of sin, nor redemption from sin, nor reconciliation with God. Upon this ground I then did & still do reject your mayor, as guarded neither with text nor truth, but leaning only to your private liking, as the best help to commend it. From thence I came to your assumption or second proposition; that Adam first, and we ever since most properly committed sin in our souls, our bodies being but the instruments of our souls, & following the Souls direction and will. The which because it had diverse branches, one touching adam's transgression, an other touching ours; and likewise two parts, the soul & body in either; I reserved for divers answers.  
In Adam's sin if you meant, as your words made show, that his Soul and body were joined in transgressing Gods Commandment, the Soul as the agent, the body as the instrument; That I said was MOST TRUE, but repugnant to your intention and main Conclusion. For then as Adam's Soul transgressed the Commandment with and by her body; so in fatisfying for sin Christ's Soul must be punished by and with her body, which was the thing you so much laboured to overthrow. To this you now reply. 
c Defenc. pa. 59 li. 8.  Nay, the Conclusion will follow, that the immortal part, the mind, was punished peculiarly, and not by and from the body only: seeing in all even outward sins the Soul sinneth both principally, and also in a proper and peculiar manner by itself, yea before the body sinneth. Albeit the body sinneth also secondarily and in a manner proper to itself, even as the instrument as you say.] The principal and peculiar action of the Soul, in sins that be common to the Body and Soul, maketh no proof that the Soul must have a distinct and several punishment from the body; or that it may not be punished from and by the body. The true and full punishment of all sin in all the wicked is the casting of Body and Soul into hell fire, where one and the same punishment is common to both, even as their sins were; notwithstanding the proper and peculiar manner which the Soul hath in sin by itself above the body. The punishments of this life are likewise common to both. For the Soul feeleth whatsoever grieveth the Body, neither can any thing offend the Soul, which doth not likewise disquiet the Body. How beit the effects and impressions of one and the same punishment are different in Soul and Body; not only because the Soul is the chief patient and sentient in all pain, as it was the chief agent, and disponent in all sin; but also for that the Soul seeth and grieveth farther upon feeling the pain, than the body can do. For the Sense of the Body can only judge how tolerable, or intolerable the pain is; but the Soul reacheth unto the cause, continuance, and consequence thereof, which often times afflict the Soul as much, or more than the pain itself. This difference dependeth on the nature of the Soul which because it is endued with reason, remembrance, and intelligence, perceiveth not only things present and subject to sense, as the Body doth, but things past and future together with their dependences; and things spiritual, as well as corporal; and the loss of joy and bliss, no less than the anguish of perpetual pain and misery. So that in all punishments of sin, which be common to the Soul and Body, the Soul is far deeper engaged in the grief thereof, than the Body can be. But this is no reason to prove that Christ's Soul must die the death of Souls, or feel the pains of hell, because his Soul considered better of his pains then his body could do.  
Two Rules of God's justice in punishing the sins of men the Scriptures report. Which though they be kept in all others, yet may no man affirm them of Christ, farther than the Gospel giveth evident Testimony to them. The one is the means, the other is the measure of punishment. As, 
d Wisdom. 11.  Wherewith a man sinneth, by the same also shall he be punished: and 
e revel. 18.  How much she exalted herself and lived in pleasure, so much torment and sorrow give ye to her. Neither of these ruies could rightly fasten on Christ, because he never sinned; and therefore touching the means, by which he satisfied for our sins, the Scriptures and not your imaginations must be consulted. Now they testify that he 
f 1. Cor. 15.  died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that we were 
g 1. Pet. 1.  Redeemed by his precious blood, which was 
h Matth. 26.  shed for Remission of sins. Here is the satisfaction for the sins of men which the Scripture delivereth without any other death of the soul, or of the damned, which men must suffer, if they be not freed from it by the death and blood of Christ; but Christ neither did nor could suffer. For the measure of pain, which Christ suffered in the death of his body described in the Scriptures, we must leave it to God, who only knew what proportion of pain in the person of his Son was sufficient for the sins of the world, & not therein trust the deceitful balance of your presumption, who neither know what degree of pain Christ suffered on the cross; nor how much in the person of Christ would satisfy the justice of God for our sins. Only this we are assured, that he 
i Hebr. 5.  learned obedience by that which he suffered, & his patience was thereby proved, but neither of them overwhelmed, or endangered. And therefore that Christ's pain on the Cross was equal to hell pains, or the very same, which the damned do suffer; these be your rash and violent intrusions upon God's justice; allotting to Christ out of your own brain the same punishment (as you call it) in substance, that the wrath of God inflicteth on the wicked and damned for their sins; but in all these collections you rest on the rules of your own reason without any warrant of the word of God, which never sorteth our Saviour in his sufferings with the reprobate & damned; and contrary to the Christian faith, which groundeth the weight of our redemption, and strength of our Reconciliation to God upon the infinity of the person that died for us, and not of the pain that was suffered in our steeds.  

k Defenc. pa. 59 li. 14.  Yea farther I mean, that some sins the Soul acteth in and by itself merely: and therefore it suffereth likewise some punishments merely in itself, which touch not the body at all, unless it be by Sympathy only, and that only when they grow vehement.] What you now mean upon better advise, maketh nothing to the Conclusion, which you would have forced out of your former words. Your assumption was, that Adam first did, and we ever since do commit sin most properly in our Souls, our bodies being but the Instruments of our Souls. In which words you speak of no sins, but only such as Adam did, and we still do commit jointly with Soul and body, though most properly in the soul, the body being her Instrument or accessary to follow her direction and will. And would you wry and wrangle never so much, from sins common to Soul and Body, most proportionably followeth punishment likewise common to Soul and Body; though in that common punishment the Soul perceiveth and feeleth greater and grievouser hurt and smart, than the body can do. If now you add a farther meaning than you there expressed, your reason remaineth as weak as it was at first, and your new meaning must have a new answer. For which I must pray the Reader to stay till we have more fully examined Adam's fact, where you first began, and wherein you would seem to have some great advantage. Howbeit if you mark well either your own purpose, which you offer to prove; or your Assumption, which you bring for proof thereof; or my words depending thereon; you will have but a cold suit of all this hot challenge. Your purpose was to prove, that Christ's sufferings for sin must be proper to the Soul, and not with, from, or by the Body, which you reject as common to us with beasts. The reason, which you brought for it, was, that Adam first & we ever since (so) sinned, that is, MOST PROPERLY in our Souls, our Bodies being but the Instruments of our Souls to follow the Souls direction and will. Now because your wont phrase (MOST PROPERLY) is so loosely set in your assumption, that a Man can not tell whether you mean most properly in the Soul, together with the Body being the Instrument of the Soul, as your words lie; or else most properly in the Soul, without and besides the Body, which is it that you intent, & must conclude before you can thence infer the proper sufferings of Christ's soul, without and besides his body: I asked you which of these twain you meant. If the former, then Adam first, and we ever since committed sin jointly with Soul and Body, the Soul being the Principal, and the Body her Instrument and accessary. This I said was most true, but repugnant to your purpose, as I before have showed. But if you meant OTHERWISE, that Adam transgressed the Commandment of God MOST PROPERLY in his Soul, without his Body concurring to the same transgression, which is more pertinent to your purpose; than you contradicted, the fact of Adam and God's precept, both which do plainly witness, that Adam disobeyed as well by Body as by Soul.  
If you will needs examine my words upon this your intention and assumption, I am well content. That Adam sinned in soul and body, I say is most true. There is my full resolution: Against this I never go. But if you meant 
l Conclus. pa. 254. li. 6.  OTHERWISE, that Adam broke the commandment of God, not by his body properly, but by his soul (only) as your words most properly might intend, than your assumption was a manifest contradiction to the fact of Adam, and to the precept of God. That the body alone without the soul doth or can commit actual sin, which hath neither life, sense, motion, nor action without the soul, is a position so absurd and false, that I thought it not worth the mentioning. I asked you then whether you meant that Adam broke the commandment, not by his body properly, as by an instrument to his soul, which is 
m Defenc. pag. 59 li. 13.  proper to the body, as yourself confess; but by his soul without his body, that is, by his soul only. For what is by the soul, and not by the body; but by the soul only? I ask you that question of your meaning, you as eclipsed of your wits, suppose that I say, Adam sinned only by his body and not by his soul; as if Adam when he sinned, were a body without a soul; or his body did any thing without the direction and operation of his soul. This is therefore a very foolish dotage of yours, to dream that I defend Adam sinned by his body without his soul, when I prove and infer by Adam's fact and God's precept, that Adam transgressed not by his soul (only) but by his body (also:) even as in murder, theft, and adultery, these facts men commit by their bodies (as instruments) and not by their souls (alone or without their bodies.) For can men commit these facts without their bodies, or are their bodies requisite as well as their souls before they can commit these facts?  
Adam was 
n Defenc. pa. 60. li. 2.  as well forbidden ●…o desire or like that fruit, as to eat it; which you deny.] To prove that Adam sinned not only by his soul, but also by his body; I brought the words of God's precept, Thou shalt not eat thereof. Which commandment since Adam wholly transgressed, the words had more in them than the prohibition of desiring or liking; and Adam's sin reached farther than to liking or lust, even to the complete fact, whereby the commandment of God was thoroughly in every part of man broken, which could not be done without the joint actions of Adam's body. Wherefore take back the heresy of the Pharisees to your ●…elfe, and bestow it among your friends that have lent you their labours in this Defence. I am not to seek, that God's law is transgressed as well with heart and tongue, as with hand and deed. Howbeit, I distinguish facts from words and thoughts, and avouch that FACTS can not be performed without the body. And yet are there special reasons which you see not, why the wisdom of God would not give this commandment without evident mention of an outward fact. For the breaking of this precept was the transgression, that should subject Adam and all his posterity, to the dominion of sin and death, in every part of body and soul. Wherefore God would not have the first sin to be secret within the soul alone; that all Adam's offspring should openly behold and confess the wickedness, unworthiness, and unthankfulness of their first parents, that so lightly regarded and presently transgressed the charge and precept, that God gave unto them. Secondly, since Adam's carriage in this case should be the retaining or losing of all God's graces and blessings for him and his children, bestowed on man in his first creation; the transgression must reach to all the senses and faculties of body and soul, that should infect and corrupt all the parts and powers of body and soul. Thirdly, the first sin was to extend as well to body as to soul, lest the soul sinning should be adjudged to everlasting death, and the body not sinning reserved for eternal life; and so man be divided contrary to his creation, the one part in hell, and the other in heaven, which was utterly impossible. And if Adam after liking had yet remembered God's precept and threat, and so refrained the eating of the forbidden fruit, it would trouble your wits to make a true answer, whether Adam had obeyed or transgressed the commandment. But it sufficeth for my purpose, that Adam sinned jointly with both parts, as well with body as with soul; and so Christ, (if your proportion were any thing needful, which I wholly reject, as needless in the Son of God) by this reason of yours needed no proper sufferings of the soul without and besides the body.  

o Defenc. pag. 59 li. 34.  Paul understood (Rom. 7. vers. 7.) when he became a Christian, that the desiring of evil is sin before the outward act be consummate.] You allege Saint Paul, as you do the rest, for matters that he never meant. Paul speaketh not 
p Rom. 7. vers. 7.  there of the actual desire of evil, when the will hath thereto consented, such as was in Adam, when he resolved to eat the forbidden fruit; but of the natural inclination and first motions to sin, which are in us after Adam's disobedience, but were not in him before his fall. For that precept, thou shalt not lust, convinceth and condemneth our nature to be corrupt and sinful, to which original concupiscence (the root and spring of all sin in us) cleaveth so fast, that even in our cradles this corruption excludeth us from the kingdom of God, if we be not regenerate in Christ by water and the holy Ghost. In Adam before sin there was no such thing, his nature was upright and sincere, as it was first created, and void of all concupiscence intended by this precept, as the 
q See Peter Martyr, M. Musculus, Caluine, Gualther, and others upon this place. Rom. 7. verse 7.  best learned of our time teach, till by his transgression sin entered and infected both body and soul. Neither do you conceive right of Paul, as he was a Pharisee, when you suppose he took the outward fact of sin only to be sin. Never read he, think you, when he was a Pharisee, the words of Esay; 
r Esay. 7.  Aram hath taken wicked counsel against thee, but it shall not stand? Nor of Solomon; The 
s Proverb. 15.  thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord, and the 
t Et 24.  evil thought of a fool is sin? Could he not tell, what to judge of Hamans' 
u Ester. 3.  thoughts against the jews, or of Achitophel's 
x 2. Sam. 17.  purpose against David, or of balam's 
y Numb. 31.  counsel against the Israelites? The very heathen Philosophers placed virtues and vices in the minds of men, and the profane Poets would have men's enterprises measured by the intent, & not by the event. The Pharisees were never so blind, as to think all counsels, thoughts, desires, and lusts to be lawful, against the manifest and express words of the law and Prophets; but they blindly mistook the law of God, as forbidding external facts only which are hurtful to others, upon pain of malediction and damnation. They rather stood upon the Popish opinion of venial and mortal sins, and did not think that venial sins did exclude them from the righteousness of the Law, nor from the kingdom of heaven. Of that opinion was Paul when he was a Pharisee, but upon his conversion and better instruction by the spirit of Christ he understood, that not only evil desires and thoughts were forbidden by the several precepts of God's law as deadly sins, which the Pharisees would not admit, to uphold their own righteousness; but that even the secret tentation to sin, and the inward propension and corruption of our hearts are interdicted and condemned by this precept, thou shalt not lust, as sin sufficient to exclude us from the kingdom of God.  

z Defenc. pag. 59 li. 18. & 28.  Your doctrine is very strange, where you teach, that the soul properly committeth no sin, but by & with the body; that is, the soul in itself & by itself alone sinneth not. You say, all provocations and pleasures of sin the soul taketh from her body, all acts of sin she committeth by her body; which speeches are exceeding untrue and hurtful.] To him that either fully can not, or rightly will not understand what is said, all things seem strange; otherwise set aside your old ordinary phrases of proper and mere, without which you can say nothing; and the matter which you so much maruaileat, is very plain, as well by the rules of Scripture, as proofs of nature. Is it so strange a doctrine with you, that the whole man, and not this or that part of man, is by the word of God charged with the committing of every sin, and guilty thereof in such sort, that the whole person is defiled therewith, and shallbe condemned therefore? 
a Luke. 5.  Depart from me Lord, saith Peter to Christ, for I am a sinful man. 
b Psal. 32.  Blessed is the man, saith David, to whom the Lord imputeth no sin. 
c Luke. 18.  O God be merciful unto me a sinner, saith the Publican. 
d Rom. 2.  Tribulation and anguish upon the soul of every man, that worketh evil, saith the Apostle. By which, as by infinite other places of Scripture we are taught, that the whole person, which is man himself, is the sinner, by which part so ever he sinneth. 
e john. 8.  Every one that committeth sin, is the servant of sin; saith our Saviour. Can the soul be in bondage for sin, and the body be free? 
f Deut. 27.  Cursed is the man, saith Moses, that keepeth not all the words of the law to do them. Can the soul be accursed for sinning, and the body be blessed as not sinning? The 
g Rom. 6.  wages of sin is death, saith the Apostle. Shall death prevail against the Soul for sin, and the Body escape death as void of sin? Surely no. Sin defileth the whole Man, by what part soever it is committed; yea the very thoughts of the hart coinquinate the whole man. When the Pharisees held opinion, that meat eaten with unwashen hands defiled the Body, our Saviour reproveth that error in them; and teacheth his Disciples, that 
h Marc. 7.  nothing without a man can defile him, when it entereth into him: but the things which come forth of him, are they that defile the Man. For from within out of the hart of Man come forth evil thoughts, covetousness, wantonness, a wicked eye, pride, foolishness. All these evils come from within, and defile a Man. Where we see that envy, (which Christ noteth by a wicked eye) and pride, and such like inward sins, yea and evil thoughts defile the Man, that is as well the Body, which the Pharisees took to be defiled with unclean hands, as the Soul. The Apostle stretcheth the infection of sin farther, even to the meats themselves, that are eaten of the wicked. 
i Tit. 1. v. 15.  All things (saith he, speaking of meats, which the jews counted unclean) are clean to the clean; but to the unclean and unbelievers nothing is clean; but even their mind and conscience is unclean. So that the uncleanness of the inward Man, defileth the outward Man, and all things, which the outward Man useth.  
This is so true, that not only the guiltiness, and filthiness of sin is in this life communicated from the Soul to the Body; but both shallbe therefore condemned in the righteous judgement of God to everlasting fire. 
k 2. Cor. 5.  We must all appear before the tribunal of Christ every man to receive the things done by his Body. Where all sorts of sins in thought, word, or deed, are by the Apostle called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or as others read, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, things done by the body, or the things proper to the Body. And though we expound it, as some do, for the things done in the Body; yet all three expositions convince that the Soul can not sin without the Body, but by or in the Body; and that the condemnation for sin reacheth as well to the Body, as to the Soul. Else the resurrection of the Body were superfluous in the wicked, if God's justice did not determine for sin to punish the Body together with the Soul. Where Tertullias Rule taketh place to prove them both guilty of sin, that shall be both punished for sin. 
l Tertullianus de resurrect. carnis.  They can not be severed in the reward which were joined in the work. Let not the flesh be partaker in the sentence, (that is of judgement) if it were not partaker in the cause, that is in sin. Of his opinion in this point were all the learned Fathers of Christ's Church.  
Athenagoras an ancient and Christian Philosopher and writer, in his Treatise of the resurrection of the dead, ve●…ie learnedly pursueth this argument, and by many reasons proveth, that the whole man sinneth, and not this or that part; and therefore the whole, as well body as soul, must be judged for every sin. 
m Athenagoras de resurrectione 〈◊〉.  If t●… whole nature of man (saith he) be universally composed of an immortal soul, and a bod●… made and at tempered thereto; and God hath not given either birth, breath, or this whole life to the soul by herself, or to the body apart, but to men consisting of these (two:) it is altogether necessary, (since one living creature consisteth of both, and feeleth all the affections of the soul, and doth and performeth whatsoever belongeth to the body, and all things needing the judgement of sense or reason) the whole course of these things should be referred to one end; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: that all should wholly concur to one harmony and sympathy, (that is, to one joint action and passion) of the (whole) man. And if there be one joint action and passion of the whole living creature, as well in those things that proceed from the soul, as in those that are performed by the body; then must there be one close and reward for all these things. 
n Ibidem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, I affirm both together to be a man composed of body and soul, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and the man so composed to be brought to judgement for all his actions, and for them to receive either honour or punishment. 
o Ibidem.  It is therefore apparent to every man, that according to the Apostle, this corruptible, though it be dispersed, must put on incorruption, that every one may justly receive the things that he hath done by his body, whether they were good or bad. Gregory Nys●…ene teacheth the very same in effect. 
p .  What define we a man to be? both (a body and a soul) joined together, or either of them severed? It is manifest, that the conjunction of both maketh a man. Let us also consider this, whether those things which men do and commit; for example, adultery, murder, theft, and whatsoever is consequent to these; or on the other side, sobriety, continency and every action that is opposite to vice, may be said to be the effects of both, or be referred to the soul alone. 
●…dem.  But in this the truth is manifest. For in every action both coupled each with other, do jointly undertake and perform the things which are done. 
r I●…dem.  If then in good deeds the body laboureth and suffereth together with the soul, and in sins it is not absent; what moveth thee to bring the soul without her body into judgement? Thine assertion is neither just nor well advised. For if the soul alone and by herself have sinned, God will then punish her al●…ne; but if she have a manifest helper, the just judge will not let that escape. Epiphanius refu●…ing those that thought we should rise with another body than here we live in, saith. How shall the soul remain alone, the body not present, that sinned together with 
.  it? Such a soul may contradict the judgement of God, and say: I (alone) sinned not, but the body (with me.) For since I departed from the body, I committed neither fornication, nor adultery, nor theft, nor murder, nor idolatry, neither did I any evil; and her defence shall be found reasonable. Upon this reasonable defence of hers what shall we say? Shall the judgement of God cease? or will God punish men unjustly? God forbid. Therefore as God made the man one compound of body and soul, the just judge will raise the body again, and give it his own soul, and so shall the judgement of God be just, both parts communicating either in punishment for sin, or in reward for virtue. Ambrose giveth the same reason for the resurrection of the body. 
t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  Et haec est series & causa justitiae, ut quoniam corporis animique communis est actus, quae animus cogitavit, corpus efficit; utrumque in judicium veniat, utrumque aut poenae dedatur, aut gloriae reseruetur. This is the course and ground of justice, that because the act (of sin) is common to body and soul, the body performing what the mind devised, both should come into judgement, and both be awarded to punishment, or reserved to glory. For it seemeth almost absurd, where the law of the flesh impugneth the law of the mind, and the mind often doth that which she hateth whiles the sin (or corruption) of the flesh dwelling in man worketh, that the soul should be subjecteth to the injury as guilty of another's fault, and the flesh should enjoy rest, which is the author of the misery; and the soul alone should be punished, which alone did not sin; or alone be glorified, which alone did not strive for glory. Theodoret treadeth the same steps, though with a larger process: 
u Theodoret. de providentia. Serm. 9  To suspect that souls alone shall be released, or punished, and the body cast away to corruption, as a brute thing and altogether unprofitable, what reason can it have, that the ●…le deprived of the body should be adjudged to torment? For being condemned she may worthily say to the judge: I did not alone transgress thy laws, Lord, but together with the bod●…e 〈◊〉! fall on the rocks of wickedness; or rather if I must speak the truth, the body drew me into the pit of sin. Snared with his eyes did I curiously view the beauty belonging to others and affected both lands and riches, they compelling me to behold such things. The affections of the body brought me to servitude, and took away the liberty which thou gavest me. I was forced 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as bred with him and his fellow-servant, to minister unto him, and provide for his wants. Often times grieved therewith, have I yielded to the necessities of the flesh, yea not knowing what else to do, and very much sorrowing, have I been driven to wait on the desires of the body. And often have I resisted, and stiffly repelled his snares; but his continual conflicts many times overcame me. When I repressed him, I afflicted myself, for I received back the grief: when I cherished him, I was impugned by him, enduring his wanton assaults. Therefore assign not me alone to punishment, o Lord, but either free me together with the body from these straits, or cast that together with me into torment. Howbeit the judge needeth no such supplication; but as he governeth wisely, so he judgeth justly, restoring the body; to their souls, and so giving to every one according to their deserts. Damascene allegeth the conjunction of the soul with the body, and the cooperation of both in all virtues and vices, as causes sufficient why the body must be judged and rewarded together with the soul. 
x Damascen. de fide Orthodoxa. l 4. cap. 28.  If the soul alone sustained the trials of virtue, alone shall she be crowned: and if she alone were entangled with pleasures, justly she alone must be punished. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; but because she had no several being (from the body) neither passed thorough virtue or vice without the body, justly shall both together receive rew●… (of good or bad.)  
For the better conceiving the truth of these speeches, we must know what these 
What powers an●… faculties of the Soul the Father call corporal, and why.  Fathers mean by the body; and what powers and faculties of man they comprise in that name, and why: so shall we the sooner discern what cooperation in sin man's body hath with his soul. The body, as it is the instrument or servant of the soul, to do good or evil, is no dead nor senseless lump of flesh; but hath annexed unto it, besides life, both sense and motion, and those as well inward as outward. For external and internal sense and motion are not only performed by vital and animal spirits, which are plainly corporal; (though their vigour and force be from the soul, which bringeth life and sense;) but so affixed to the body, that they die with the body, and are not found in the soul, so long as she is separated from the body. Those faculties these Fathers ascribe the rather to the flesh, because in some sort they be in beasts, who in their kind have sense and motion, both outward and inward; and sensitive desires and affections depending thereon: which all must needs be corporal, for that brute beasts led only by sense to desire and delight in things present before them, have no spiritual nor immortal part from which they should proceed. The same powers of sense, and sensitive appetites, and affections in man's body, these learned Father's account and call corporal, not that they discern or move without the soul, but that the sensitive and inferior powers of the soul are mixed with corporal spirits in man, and by them apprehend and desire external & sensible things, by which corruption of senses and affections the soul is drawn to divers delights and desires, that are continual occasions and inducements to sins. Therefore Theodoret nameth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the desires, affections, assaults and conflicts of the body seeking by pleasures and sundry lusts to conquer the soul. Neither want they the warrant of holy Scripture in so speaking. 
y Rom. 6.  Let not sin reign in your mortal bodies, saith Paul, to obey it in the lusts thereof; neither give your members to be weapons of unrighteousness unto sin. So that the members of our mortal body are called by the Apostle the weapons of unrighteousness, by which sin fighteth against the soul. 
z jam. 4.  Whence are wars and strifes in you, saith james? not hence, even from the pleasures which fight in your members? 
a 1. Pet. 2.  Abstain, saith Peter, from carnal desires, which fight against the soul. 
b Rom. 7.  I delight in the law of God, saith Paul, according to the inward man: but I see another law in my members fight against the law of my mind, and leading me captive to the law of sin, which is in my members. O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Where the inward man (which is the mind lightened and the will directed by grace) is divided against the outward man, which must n●…eds be the inferior powers of the souls joined with the parts and spirit's of the body, wher●… and whereby sin still dwelling in our earthly and irregenerate members, jousteth aga●…nst the spirit, and striveth against the mind; which Peter calleth fight against the soul.  
To strengthen this doctrine, which you think so strange, it shall not be amiss to consider somewhat further, what communion the soul hath with the body; that thereby we may perceive, what use the soul hath of her body in well or evil doing. The habitation of the soul in the body, and her conjunction with the body making one man of two contrary parts; mortal, and immortal; visible, and invisible; reasonable, and unreasonable; is so wonderful a work of God, that the manner thereof wholly pas●…eth our understanding: only by consequents, and effects we gather, what she useth in the body, what she perceiveth by the body, and what she imparteth to the body. Howbeit her habitation in the body, and union with the body, composing one person of both, called man, is sufficient by the Scriptures, if we knew no more of the communion that is betwixt them, to make both parts guilty of all sin committed and liable to the punishment thereof both in this world, and in the next. And so much the Scriptures teach us, when they require confession of our sins, or promise remission of our sins or threaten vengeance for our unrighteousness; wherein the body is not severed nor excepted from the soul, but both are con●…oyned in one person, to whom and every part of whom, either mercy is afforded unto salvation, or justice awarded unto damnation. And yet because the communion which is betwixt the soul and body, will give us some light, how the soul useth the help of her body in accomplishing her actions; I may not omit to speak thereof, though happily it will be somewhat obscure to the simple, and more remote from their understanding, then in this case I could wish.  
As man was ordained of God to have in him the several operations, of life, of sense of reason, so was the soul created with three diverse faculties answerable to those three functions; to wit, with a vital or vegetative for the first, with a sensitive and motive for the second, with a reasonable or intellective for the third. The vital faculty provided for the quickening, nourishing, increasing and preserving of the body in moderate strength to the discharge of our duties to God and our neighbour, is so fastened to the body that without the body it hath neither use, nor action.  
The second faculty called sensitive was given of purpose to the soul, not only to perceive by sense the natures, helps, and uses of all external and sensible things, and by voluntary motion to pursue that, which was profitable for us; but chiefly, that by seeing the works & hearing the words of God we should come to the knowledge of his will, and open our lips to praise his name, and to direct and comfort others; as also stretch out our hands to aid and relieve ourselves and our brethren, and with all the parts of our body to perform all outward actions and duties of piety and charity. To which ends because sense and motion both external and internal were requisite as well as reason, the wisdom of God hath placed in the body, and specially in the head and heart (the seats of understanding and will) certain thin, quick, and aerial vapours, or spirits, which rise from the blood, and are brought by the brain to a marvelous force and agility, that they should carry to the mind of man with incredible celerity the resemblances of all things subjecteth to sense, and with like vehemency stir and excite the heart and will of man, with consent to embrace, and with all the powers and parts of soul and body to follow after that, which provoketh and delighteth the sensitive spirits. So that these corporal and active spirits are the means, whereby particular things and circumstances, together with their profits and pleasures, are in a moment presented to the mind: and the heart and will likewise moved and inflamed to accept and allow that, which contenteth and pleaseth the senses. For according as the things objected to sense, or remembered after sense, seem good or evil to the powers of the soul united with these spirits, so is desire or anger kindled by pleasure on the one side, and dislike or grief on the other, which presently and violently prevail with the soul, where grace wanteth, and lust and strive even in the Saints against the spirit of God. This is that part of the soul, which in the faithful is not regenerate, whiles here they live; lusting still after the things of this world, even the delights of the flesh, the desires of the eye, and the pride of life; and by these baits and snares fight against the Soul.  
The third power of the Soul is intellective, that is the mind endued with understanding and will; which in the natural man is ignorant of God and averse from God by corruption of sin, and so carried through the love of itself either to carnal pleasures at the provocation of the senses, or to vain desires under colour of human reason and glory. This part in the faithful is lightened and persuaded by the Spirit of God to see and acknowledge the good and acceptable will of God, and strengthened with a measure of grace to resist the dominion of sin dwelling in our mortal body, that is in the sensitive powers and affections of the soul mixed with the members and spirits of the body; though in this life the mind even of the regenerate hath not that perfection of knowledge and love, which the law of God requireth; and therefore shrinketh often from the leading of God's spirit by ignorance and infirmity, but never by rebellion and obstinacy.  
This much being said touching the powers of the Soul, which may more largely be perused in that learned 
c Zanchius de operibus dei part. 3. lib 2. cap. 3.  work of Zanchius alleged by this Discourser; It is most evident by the very grounds of human and Divine learning and experience, that the principal part of the Soul, which is the mind enabled with reason and will, hath in all sorts of sins a manifest communion with the Body; either by information of the senses, or by tentation from the affections, or by impression on the spirits and parts of the body, or by the ready subjection of the whole body to the will; besides original corruption, which the Soul draweth from the Body, sufficient of itself to make the Body guilty of all evil committed by the Soul, and actual execution, whereby the Soul needeth and useth the Body to effect and accomplish, whatsoever she intendeth. And first of information for the senses.  
The knowledge of good and evil, which the Soul of man hath in this life, is not infused by creation, as it was in Angels, to whom that kind of knowledge is peculiar, but collected from the sense, and taught by time, as we see by experience in all mankind without exception. I still reserve the revelation and inspiration of God's Spirit; when, where, and to whom pleaseth him. A plain proof of the former point we daily behold in children, who utterly know nothing, no 
d jonas. 3.  not their right hand from their l●…ft, as God himself testifieth, till by sense and use they learn to distinguish, and at length to conceive the things set before them. The Rule of natural Philosophy expressing, that the understanding hath nothing, which came not from the sense, you would feign tumble out of your way, but it is very true and consonant to the Scriptures, if it be taken as it was meant, and the revelation of Christ's Spirit thence excepted, of which in deed the Philosophers knew nothing. For that was not spoken of conclusions in reason, as if they must be first in sense, before they could be inferred by consequent; nor of the dividing and compounding things in man's imagination, that came from the sense, as dreams and fictions; but of the principles or premises in reason, which must be plain to the sense; and of the natural and true proprieties and differences of all particular things, which the sense must first apprehend, before the mind can rightly discern them. So that the mind conceiveth truly no singular things, which were not first apparent to the sense, since man hath no natural means given him of God to get the true knowledge of any thing, that is not revealed or inspired from above, but only his senses. To this the Scriptures beareth witness, where the means to inform man's Hart of good and bad, in which sin consisteth, are set down to be the eyes, and the ears, still saving to God, what he revealeth by the power of his spirit. Ignorance and neglect of God's will, whence all sin cometh, are described in the Scriptures by the dullness of the ear, and blindness of the eye. God hath given them (saith Paul) the spirit of slumber; even eyes that they should not see, and ears that 
●… Rom. 11.  they should not hear unto this day. Our Saviour confirmeth the same out of the Prophet Esaie. 
f Matth. 13.  The Hart of this people is waxed fat, they hear dully with their ears, and wink with their eyes; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and (so) understand with their hearts. But blessed (saith he to his Disciples) are your eyes, for they see; and your ears for they hear. In so much that the Apostle doubteth not to assure us, 
g Rom. 10.  faith cometh by hearing, when the hart believeth unto righteousness, and without hearing there is no believing; How shall they believe in him, of whom they have not heard? And God requiring his people to be wise and learn, saith, 
k ●… Esa ●…2.  Hear ye deaf, and ye blind behold, that ye may see. As God then useth no outward means besides his works and his words to teach us his will; so hath he given us no natural course to learn, but by the eyes and the ears; by which we must come to the knowledge of all heavenly, and much more of all earthly things.  
The losing and decaying of man's knowledge in this life, after he hath gotten it, will prove the same, no less than the lacking thereof, before he doth by sense attain it. For when the sensitive spirits in the brain be either gross and heavy, as in fools; or extreme hot and whirling as in mad men; or obstructed and choked as in Lethargies and Apoplexies; men want the use of reason, because the objects, whereon the mind worketh, are by these means hindered and hid from the understanding. This is the true resolution both of Philosophers and Divines. 
i Zanchius de operibus dei part. 3. li. 2. cap. 2. fol. 507.  Ad facultatem intelligentem exercendam non eget (mens) organo tanquam medio, per quod intelligat: quanquam eget obiecto, in quod intueatur, & ex quo intellectionem concipiat. Hoc autem obiectum, sunt phantasmata, seu rerum a sensibus perceptarum simulachra ad phantasiam perlata. To exercise the faculty of understanding the mind of man, saith Zanchius, needeth no instrument, as a mean by which she may understand, but she needeth an object, whereon to look, and whence to conceive the act of understanding. This object are the sensitive apprehensions, or the resemblances of things received from the senses and carried to the phantasm or imagination of man. And to this objection that upon the hurt or weariness of the brain we find by experience, our mind can not understand and work in those things as it did before; he answereth. 
k Zanchius ibidem. fol. 507.  Ideo non potest lesis aut defatigatis turbatisque organis mens nostra intelligendis contemplandisque rebus operam dare, quia phantasmata ipsa, quae sunt in organo corporali, & quae sunt ceu obiectum intellectus, turbato ipsorum organo, videri & percipi non possunt. Therefore our mind can not contemplate and conceive, when the instruments are hurt, wearied, or troubled, because the resemblances of things, which are in a corporal instrument, and are as an object to the understanding, can not be seen and perceived. For the 
l Ibidem.  resemblances of things in man's Imagination are to his understanding and mind, as colours are to his sight. Now the eye seeth nothing but the colour of every thing, though therewithal it distinguish number, quantity, motion and figure, and so taketh the knowledge of every sensible thing. In like manner without the similitudes and shapes of things carried from the sense to the phantasive imagination or apprehension, and there remaining, the mind understandeth nothing of those things, that are without it; and no knowledge is naturally within it, but what God hath revealed to it. His conclusion is. 
m Zanchius de operibus Dei part 3 li. 2. cap. 3. Thesi. 2. de phantasia.  Haec partis sensiti●… facultas propinqua est intellecti●…, & huic suppeditat materiam cogitandi, intelligendi, & denique omnia sua officia faciendi. This faculty of the sensitive part, is placed near unto the intellective, and ministereth thereunto matter of Cogitation, understanding, and performing all her duties.  
In inward tentation to evil, Saint james rule doth generally take place. 
n jam. 1.  Every man is tempted being drawn away, and enticed by his own concupiscence. And lust conceiving bringeth forth sin. So that lust naturally dwelling in us, and conceiving and bringing forth sin, is the very mother and nurse of all sin in us. Austen maketh two chief roots of sin in man, desire, and fear. 
o August. in Psal 79.  Omnia peccata du●… res faciunt in homine, cupidit as & timor. Cogitate, discutite, interrogate cord●… vestra, perscrutamini conscientias, videte utrum possunt esse peccatanisi cupiendo aut timendo. Two things cause ALL SINS in men, desire and fear. Bethink yourselves, discuss, examine your hearts, search your consciences, and see whether there can possible be any sins, but by desiring or fearing. Where lest Austen making two fountains of all sins, desire, and fear; should jar with Saint james, that setteth down lust for the first spring of every tentation to sin: we must either take tentation, of which Saint james speaketh, for a delightful provocation to sin, resting within us; and terror, which Austen addeth, for a violent and external induction thereto proceeding from others: or else we must derive, desire and fear from the love of ourselves, which originally dwelleth in us, and lusteth after every thing that liketh us: or lastly we may join the one as a consequent to the other; since the natural desire we have of our own ease and welfare, breedeth in us that dislike and fear of evil, which so much urgeth and forceth us. If then desire and fear, be the motives and inducements to ALL sins, that men commit; as most resolutely Saint Austen avoucheth; and these two desire and fear, on which depend the rest of our affections, be passions of the sensitive part of the Soul permixed in this life with corporal spirits: certainly all sins in men have their provocations and incitations from and by bodily senses, spirits, or motions. 
p Clamen Alexand. Stromat. li. 6.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. By bodily spirits (saith Clemens Alexandrinus) man hath sense, desire, rejoiceth, and kindleth to anger; yea and by the same (spirits) do the thoughts and resolutions of the mind proceed to action. 
q Athenagoras de resurrection●… mortuorum.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, etc. Where is it just, saith Athenagoras, that DESIRES, pleasures, FEARS and sorrows should have their motion (or rising) from the body, and the sins occasioned by them, and the punishments for the same sins should lie on the Soul alone? Damascene defining the passions or affections of the Soul, saith. 
r Damascenus orthodox. fidei li. 2. cap. 22.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. A passion (or affection of the Soul) is a sensible motion of the desiring or appetitive faculty, upon the imagination of good or evil. In which description are three plain proofs, that the passions of the soul (which by the confession of Damascene, and all other Divines are 
s Ibidem. li. 2. cap. 12.  DESIRE, FEAR, joy and sorrow) do not move in this life without the body. First in that they are sensible motions, they must be perceived in the body; next in that they rise from the sensitive appetite, they are conjoined with the body; thirdly in that they come upon the phantasive imagination of good or evil, they are kindled from the senses of the body. What sensible motions these affections of the soul do raise in the outward and inward parts of man, we shall anon perceive, when we come to the impressions, that the soul maketh on the body: in the mean time it is not amiss to know, how Satan, who hath that name from his desire and power of tempting, worketh and prevaileth in his temptations upon men.  
It is evident by the Scriptures, that God alone searcheth, and changeth the heart of man, because he alone is the maker of it; and therefore Satan, though he be a spirit, yet can he not by himself either discern the thoughts, or alter the will of man; but in the one he observeth the secret impressions of the soul on the body; and in the other he stirreth and useth the spirits and affections of the body against the soul. So that when he will put any evil thoughts into the hearts of men, as he did into 
t john 13.  judas and 
u Act. 5.  Ananias, and daily doth into the children of disobedience, and often time, into the godly themselves, when he is so permitted; he can not of himself turn and wind the heart as pleaseth him, that is proper to God alone; but he abuseth our ears and eyes, or else he stirreth the humours and spirits of the body, and by tempering and mixing the resemblances of things received from the sense, and reserved in man's imagination, he objecteth to the mind what he listeth, and incensing the 
How the devil may discern and incense our affections.  affections, that are likewise bodily, he trieth whether he can draw the heart to consent. Which he discerneth not by any inward power of his own, but by the different motions of the heart, where the will of man is seated, and according as he findeth his temptations to be either refused, or admitted in the heart of man, so he either desisteth from his lost labour, or pursueth the suggestion once allowed, till the sin be performed. S. Austen discussing how devils could divine at men's thoughts, and induce men's hearts, saith: 
x August de Divinatione Damonum. cap. 5.  Suadent miris & invisibilibus modis, corpora hominum non sentientium penetrando, seseque cogitationibus eorum per quaedam imaginaria visa miscendo, sive vigilantium, sive dormientium: The devils persuade by marvelous & invisible means, entering the bodies of men when they feel it not, and by certain resemblances or sights of the imagination intermingling themselves with the thoughts of men, either waking or sleeping. Of discerning our thoughts, the writer of Ecclesiastical opinions amongst S. Austin's works, saith: 
y De ecclesiast. Dogmatibus. cap. 80.  Internas animae cogitationes diabolum non videre, certi sumus, sed motibus eas corporis ab illo, & affectionum indicijs colligi, experimento didicimus. We be sure the devil seeth not the inward thoughts of the heart, yet find we by experience, that he collecteth them by the motions of the body, and the shows of men's affections. To which S. Austen agreeth: 
z August. de Divinatione Damonum. cap 5.  Sicut apparet concitatior animi motus in vultu, ut ab hominibus quoque aliquid forinsecus agnoscatur, quod intrinsecus agitur: Ita non debet esse incredibile, si etiam leviores cogitationes dant aliqua signa per corpus, quae obtuso hominum sensu cognosci non possunt, acuto autem damonum possunt. As a vehement motion of the mind appeareth even in the countenance, that men may outwardly perceive what is inwardly purposed; so ought it not to be incredible, that the lighter thoughts of men give some signs by the body, which can not be descried by the dull sense of men, but yet may be discerned by the quick sense of devils. By themselves then devils can not infuse any thoughts into us; that only belongeth to the spirit of God; immediately to inspire the heart of man; neither can they so much as discern our secret thoughts, which none can do, but he that framed the heart; yet as the soul getteth her knowledge by resemblance and informance of things carried from the senses to the imagination, and thence presented to the mind: so the devil hath his means to work in the outward and inward senses, which have corporal seats and spirits, and by the similitudes and shows of things there found, to offer suggestions to the mind of man. Whether it be therefore the world without us, the flesh within us, or the devil both without and within, that tempteth us; our senses, imaginations and affections are the means which are used by all those three; and these have such union and communion with the body, that after death there is no means for new temptations to be offered, nor new sins to be committed, but each man shall receive judgement for the things done in the body, and not after or before the body.  
That all the thoughts of man, be they never so light, give signs in the body, I by no means affirm: for so the devils should easily discern thoughts; and S. Austen wisely did moderate that assertion, and make some doubt, 
a August. retract. li. 2. ca 3.  how thoughts are known to devils; but in sins, (of which I speak, not of thoughts) it is more manifest, that the devil hath his means to see, whether his temptations take place in the heart or no. For when S. james saith, 
b James. 4.  Resist the devil, and he will flee from you; surely the devil must see when he is resisted in the heart of man, else how shall he flee? 
c E hes. 4.  Give no place to the devil, saith Paul. Then doth the devil perceive, when place is given unto him, that he may enter and possess the heart; neither are his temptations so vainly offered, that he can not discern when the heart embraceth them. The soul therefore pleased or displeased with evil, causeth certain natural motions and impressions on the body, by which the wicked spirits observe the inclination of the heart; and that to them is as clear, as the outward carriage of the countenance is to men, or the inward feeling of our affections is to ourselves.  
Of outward motions and impressions jesus the son of Syrach saith: 
d Eccles. 13.  The heart of man changeth his countenance, either to good or evil. 
e Ibid. v. 27.  A cheerful face is the token of the heart for good: and when the countenance falleth, the heart is displeased. Why is thy 
f Genes. 4.  countenance cast down, said God to Cain, reproving his dislike, that Abel's sacrifice was preferred? And when Laban's heart altered towards jacob, Laban's 
g Genes. 31.  countenance was not as it was before. 
h Genes. 33.  I have seen thy face, as the face of God, because thou hast accepted me, said jacob to Esau; and usually in the Scriptures, to find grace in the eyes, noteth a favourable and loving respect had to any. Nature teacheth us as well as Scripture, that anger and favour, sorrow and joy, fear and shame, and all the affections of the heart appear in the very faces of men, and so do pride, envy, luxury, a●…arice, impudency, and such like vices betray themselves by the very looks. The 
i Esa 2.  lofty eye of man shall be humbled, that is, his pride shall be abased. The 
k Eccles. 14.  wicked envieth to see with his eye, and turneth away his face; and the eye of the covetous is not satisfied with any part. Of wantoness Peter saith, They have 
l 2. Pet. 2.  eyes full of adultery. By what outward signs of face, eyes, gostures and motions of the body, the inward affections and dispositions of the mind may be gathered, would be long to deliver. Tertullian saith truly; 
m Tertullianus de resurrectione carnis.  Fancies intentionum omnium speculum est. The face is the glass of all (our) intentions or affections. And Ambrose: Habitus mentis in corporis statu cernitur. The disposition of the 
Ambros. officio. li. 1. cap. 18.  mind is perceived by the state of the body. 
n Basil. in Psal. 29.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. What is more deformed (saith Basil) and more displeasing even to the sight, than the soul when she is in her affections? Observe an angry man, and the fierceness of his looks. Mark a man sorrowing, and the baseness and dejection of his soul. One that is subject to luxury or gluttony, or amazed with fear, who can endure to behold? 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The disposition of the soul piercing to the very outsides of the body, even as the prints of the seemliness of the soul appear 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in the composed behaviour and gesture of the godly.  
The alterations of the blood, and motions of the spirits within the body, which 
All affections make sensible alterations in the hart.  the soul raiseth in all her affections, are not so open to the eye as the former, yet are they the causes of all outward mutations, and sensible enough to the parties themselves, when they grow any thing vehement. For this is God's ordinance in all things which have sense or reason, that good any way perceived, should delight, stir, and inflame the will and appetite of beasts, men and angels, with desire and love thereof: and evil chose should not only avert and quench the will and appetite with hatred, but offend and oppress the patient with fear and grief. When then the soul of man united to her body, liketh any thing objected or apprehended under the show of good; she kindleth and moveth herself to attain her desire, and therewithal incenseth the vital and animal spirits, which warm the blood, enlarge the heart, and diffuse themselves to pursue, or embrace the good that is approaching or present. And when she seeth any evil which she can not decline, but must endure, she staggereth, and sinketh for fear, which quencheth the spirits, cooleth the blood, and closeth the heart, depressing all three with a slack, cold, and heavy remissness. If she may withstand or requite the evil that is towards, she raiseth herself to anger, which maketh the blood to boil, the heart to swell, and the spirits to fly to the outmost parts, as ready to resist or revenge. So that LOVE and HATRED of good and evil objected to the sense or mind of man, are the two chief springs of all his affections and actions; and the branches thereof, which are desire, fear, joy, grief and anger, moved either by the sense or understanding, have their manifest or secret alterations of the blood, and motions of the heart, by the intention or remission of the spirits kindled, or quenched more or less, according as the object of good and evil is greater or nearer. By this means the soul affected and moved with good or evil, affecteth and moveth her body, and showeth her inward disposition and inclination to either; and the heart of man, which is the seat of will, hath his natural and different motions raised by the soul, upon her liking or disliking of good or evil, perceived by sense or by understanding.  
These alterations and motions naturally impressed by the soul on the body, not only Philosophers and Physicians have observed, but the Divines of all ages, that have waded therein, have fully confessed. Aristotle by the rules of nature collected and inferred thus much: 
o Arist. de animalium moti●…ne. cap. 8.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The beginning of motion is that, which in our actions must be pursued or declined; and of necessity heat and cold do follow upon the cogitation or imagination of either. That which is grieving, is declined; that which is pleasing, is pursued. Howbeit, in small things this is scant sensible. 
p Ibid. cap. 7.  So that almost all things grieving and pleasing (us) bring with them a (sensible) kind of cold and heat; as it is evident by our affections; the parts enlarging by heat, and shrinking with cold. This alteration, either the sense, or the imagination, or the cogitation can make. Wherefore some shake and fear only upon the cogitation of things. The evil or good which grieveth or pleaseth us, bringeth naturally cold or heat to the blood, and so enlargeth or shrinketh the heart; which alterations do come as well upon cogitation and imagination, as upon sense. Galene an exact and skilful observer of man's body, writeth that the first and principal cause of shaking is the 
q Galenus de causis Symptomatum. li. 2. cap. 5.  recourse of the natural heat to the inward and outward parts, which is found in many affections of the soul; and with the same are as well the spirits as the blood carried sometimes inward to the fountain (of the heart) and there compressed; sometimes extended to the outward parts, and there diffused. Those spirits and blood, together with the heat that is in either or both, the soul useth for her first instruments in all her operations, or else dwelleth in them; and those motions of the soul we may plainly behold in many other things, but chiefly in the affections of the soul. For fear presently driveth the spirits and the blood to the inward parts, and presseth them to a narrow room by cooling the outsides of the body. Anger doth hastily send forth, diffuse, and heat (the blood and spirits) and therefore the beating of the arteries and the heart, in them that fear, are small and weak; but very great and vehement in them that are angry.  
That fear doth straighten and contract the hart, and joy dilate it and make it leap, and the signs of either prevail and appear in the body; the ancient Father Saint Basile did long since observe. 
r Basil. Homil. 4. de gratiar. Actione.  Tears (the effect of grief) do rise, saith he, when an impression against our wills doth strike the Soul, and draw it together, the spirit about the heart being compacted and straightened. joy is as it were the leaping of the Soul exulting (or advancing itself) for things answerable to our mind. Wherefore the Soul showeth signs in the Body accordingly. For in those that sorrow the mass of flesh is pale, wan, and cold. In those that rejoice, the habit of their body is flourishing and ruddy, the Soul even leaping, and for pleasure offering to rush to the outmost parts. Thomas Aquinas a man well learned, though led with the errors of his age, very truly noteth; First, Quod in 
s Thomas 1. 2. q●…aest. 24. a●…t. 2. a●… 2.  omni passione animae additur aliquid vel diminuitur a naturali motu Cordis, in quantum cor intensiùs vel remissiùs monetur: That in all the passions of the Soul somewhat is added to, or diminished from, the natural motion of the hart, in as much as the hart moveth either swifter or slacker. Secondly, that 
t Quaest 84. artic 1. in respons.  From the love of temporal things all sin proceedeth; all (our) affections being caused by love, which 
u Quaest 25 artic 2. quaest. 28. artic. 5.  melteth and mollifieth the hart, that the thing loved may pierce it, contrary to coldness and hardness of hart, which is a disposition repugnant to love, whose perfection is to be zealous and fervent. The cause of all sin then, which is the love of ourselves and of temporal things delighting us, so flameth in our hearts, that it seeketh all occasions, and undertaketh all actions to content our appetites; and this heat and motion of love being impressed in the hart by the soul, it is manifest that the consent of sin is communicated from the Soul to the Body. Leonardus Fuchsius a learned Physician of our time, and a professor of true Religion, in his institutions of Physic showeth, that joy 
x Fuchsius insti●…utio medicine. li. 1. Sectio. 7. cap. 4.  sorrow, hope, desperation, confidence, fear, love, hatred, mercy, envy, anger, wrath, waspishness, rage, shamefastness, blushing, staggering, hastiness, humanity, morosity, and such like have their MOTIONS in the hart, heating or cooling it, and so dilating or contracting it more or less, according to the differences and degrees of their impressions. Zanchius a wise and worthy Divine treating of the parts of the Body, saith; 
y Zanchius de operibus Dei part. 3. li. 2. cap. 1. Numer. 7.  The second use of the hart is to impart vital spirits specially to the head, in which the mind properly worketh, and so to minister matter whence the sensitive spirits are produced in the brain; by which, motion, sense, and cogitations are stirred. The third use of the hart is that it should also be the seat, fountain, and cause of all our affections. For there are in the hart two motions, the one of pulse, to maintain life by the ordinary breathing in and out of the air: the other of affection, which followeth the thought of man, and is made by the extraordinary dilating of the whole hart, as in joy; or compressing it, as in sorrow. With sorrow and grief we pine away, with joy we revive. Whereupon the hart in one affection is opened and cheered, in the other it is shut and dried. Hereby we perceive why the Scripture by the name of the hart under standeth the WILL and all the affections of man, as by the name of the mind it noteth all the thoughts and knowledge of man. Wherefore as motion, sense, and cogitations spring from the brain or head, so all affections from the hart. Then 
z Ibidem.  from the hart ascend to the brain vital spirits, whence sensitive spirits are engendered. By these sensitive spirits thoughts are moved, and knowledge planted in the mind. Again, those sensitive spirits by cogitations and conceptions strike the whole hart, and kindle divers affections, and raze divers motions in it. And this hath great profit in Divinity. For besides that we understand how the Soul useth the Body, and worketh by the Body; two chief points of true godliness are illustrated by this Doctrine: the KNOWLEDGE and LOVE of God, whence cometh obedience and the observance of all his commandments. For the holy Ghost sliding into our hearts first lighteneth the mind, which worketh in the head, and with that effectual knowledge kindleth in our hart the affection of love. And from thence cometh the motion (of all the parts) to perform the will of God. By this means God truly dwelleth in our mind, in our hart, and in our whole Body. There is then neither good nor evil affection in the soul of man, which is not somewhat communicated to the hart of man, & expressed by the very motions of the hart; that the body may justly be drawn by consenting and serving in either, to the reward and punishment of either.  
The READY SUBJECTION of the Body to the Soul in all sin is the last point that I mentioned of their mutual communion. For though understanding and will were given at first with all facility to rule and govern the other powers and parts of Soul and Body; yet the corruption of sin once entering, not only divided the Body against the Soul, but even the Soul against itself. So that in good things this corruptible Body is now an heavy burden loading the Soul, when it is lightened with grace; and the inferior and sensitive powers of the Soul rebel and strive against the spirit, which reneweth the inward man of the hart. Some ignorance, infirmity and self-love remain still in the mind, as defects, till we come to the place, where our knowledge and love shall be made perfect; but when we would do good, even than the law of sin in our members 
a Rom. 7.  REBELLETH against the law of our mind, and leadeth (us) captive to the law of sin, that is in our members. The 
b Galat. 6.  flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh, and these are repugnant the one to the other, so that we can not do the things which we would. For which cause the Apostle professed of himself, that he did 
c 1. Cor. 9  press down his body, and bring it into subjection; lest (the Body rebelling and prevailing against the spirit) he should become a castaway. This sharp and strong resistance, which our earthly members make against the mind and will delighting in the law of God, and guided by his spirit, showeth the willingness and readiness of the flesh to conspire and join with the WILL in the servitude of sin; to make her members the weapons of unrighteousness; so that the will no sooner consenteth to any evil, but the sensitive and motive powers of the Soul permixed with the bodily spirits, attend with delight and forwardness to promote and execute each sinful purpose. This is that 
d Ephes. 4.  greediness, which the Apostle noteth in some to uncleanness, from which if either fear or grace restrain, it is not without some sensible grief to the flesh, disappointed of her desires and lusts.  
We see the manifest and manifold conjunction and communion of the soul with the body as well in good as in evil; which is strange to none, neither Philosophers, Physicians, nor Divines, but only to this Discourser, to whom all sound and true learning is strange. For not only virtues and vices are common to both; but spiritual graces, as faith, hope, and love, the soul in this life receiveth, perceiveth, and practiseth together with her body, and by her body. 
e Athenagoras de resurrecti●… mo●…tuorum.  Virtue and vice, saith Athenagoras, can not so much as be conceived in the soul without the body. For the virtues, that are, we know to be the virtues of men, (as also the vices that are contrary) and not to be in the soul apart from the body, or consisting by herself. Of faith we said before, it cometh by hearing: and so doth hope, since that is expected which is believed. Touching 
●… Rom. 10  love, God by his law commandeth himself to be loved 
g Mark 12  with all our mind, with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our strength; not making an empty variation of words, but binding all the parts and powers of body and soul, capable of that affection or serviceable to it, with one common duty to perform him love. The soul then believing and loving the promises and graces of God, openeth the heart and diffuseth the spirits to accept and embrace the goodness of God in like manner, as she did before dilate it to entertain the desires of earthly things; and God detesting an ʰ hard and 
i ●…opho. 1.  frozen heart, as void of all love, requireth to have the 
k 〈◊〉. 5.  bowels moved towards 
l Mark 16.  him, and the heart kindled with a vehement 
l Cap. 8.  flame: describing zeal and devotion by the natural motions and passions, which are felt in the heart, when it is affected with vehement and strong love. So in repentance the soul depresseth and humbleth the heart, raising it again with hope, which before was exalted with pride, and incensed with self love; by the same natural means and motions testifying the one, that she did the other, and drawing the body with the powers and parts thereof to the obedience of faith, so far as the law of sin lusting in the flesh will permit, and the measure of grace given us doth prevail.  
Against this doctrine you would seem to bring many objections; but they are such as will prove you either to understand nothing at all besides your own fancies; 
Our natural knowledge cometh by s●…nse.  or to play with shadows, when you most profess to be serious and earnest. Your first is; 
m Def●…nc pag ●…0. l 9  Heresies, turcism, and Atheism are committed and determined simpl●…ly in the mind, without any necessary employment of any parts of the body.] If you can tell me what religion you were of in your cradle, before you did speak or understand; your instance were of some weight. But if men be taught as well errors as truth, by their parents and masters, than this is a wooden reason to make us believe, that heresies are inspired without teaching or hearing. S. Paul saith, 
n Rom. 10.  Faith cometh by hearing; and so I trust you did first learn it, and not by revelation. If we be not borne Christians in knowledge, but must be taught; no more are any men borne jews, Turks, or Heretics, but their ears and hearts must be first infected with the tongues or pens of others. This is one of your surest weapons, wherewith you thought to do great works: but put it up; at such straws children will not stumble. The first inventors of heresies, you will say, were not taught.] The first authors of errors shut their eyes or ears against the truth offered them, and so declined from truth to falsehood, by leaning rather to their own corrupt judgements grounded on earthly reasons, then to the voice of God directing them aright. For why do men disbeleeve and impugn the word of God, as all heretics do; but because they measure divine things, that pass their reach, by human sense and experience, which are not gathered without the body? The Turks are strangers (you think) to the word of God, and Atheists are utter despisers of it.] The Turk destitute of truth, and so notable rightly to judge of God's favours in this life, bendeth his eyes on the worldly miseries of Christians, and comparing them with the victories and felicities (as he thinketh) of his own nation, condemneth the faith of Christ, as displeasant to God, by reason of the manifold afflictions of the faithful, and preferreth his own profession, and Mahomet the first erector of it as most acceptable to God, because they have their desires in this world, and are conquerors over Christians, not knowing the final reward of the one and of the other after this life. Atheists are carried with almost the same respects to deny or desp●…se the power and providence of God. For they being earthly minded, and seeing the wicked and profane persons not only free from punishment, but most to flourish in this life, do hence collect, there is no God; whose patience and justice they deride, because he dispenseth not transitory things according to their expectation.  

o Defenc. pag. 61. l. 4.  Further as the Angels sinned in the beginning by their mere spiritual conceit against God, so nothing letteth but that man in his Angellike nature (the reasonable soul) may sin likewise, without any bodily means thereunto.] This is another of your reasons not much unlike the former. For in Angels, which now are devils, their understanding and will might and did sin, because they were spirits, and other essential parts in them we do not know. In men that cannot be, because they consist of body and soul, and have many powers of the soul permixed with the body, and so must sin in both the parts of their nature, before they can sin, as the Angels did, that is, in their whole substance. If then you see no difference between Angels, that are only spirits, and men, that must have bodies as well as souls, before they can be men; your Angellike nature is not very bright. If you see the difference, and yet urge your consequence; that is a mere spiritual conceit of yours, but utterly void of all reason. For as well men as Angels must sin in their whole natures, lest whiles you place one part in hell as nocent, and the other in heaven as innocent, you bring us as strange judgements, as you do doctrines. In God's judgement, 
p Cyrill. in joan. lib. 1. cap. 9  Ea solummodo quaeruntur, quae cum corpore gessit; those things only are required, (saith Cyrill) which (man) committed with his body. Neither will this serve your turn, that the body is the instrument of the soul. For as whiles man liveth, many faculties of the soul are tempered with the body; so when man sinneth, the whole soul is not guilty, if the sensitive powers and affections of the soul be exempted from sin. And since by God's ordinance after Adam's fall, the corruption of sin first riseth in the body, the information and tentation to sin cometh from the body, and the consent of the soul to sin is impressed on the body, as also willing subjection to sin is yielded by the body; this is let sufficient, why the soul alone neither can, nor doth sin in this life without her body.  

q Defenc. pag. 61. l. 8.  Also as we can think well without using our body, God so inspiring us: so may we think. ill (which is sin) our inborn corrupt understanding, and reason, and will moving us only.] If God's power be not tied to the course of nature prescribed us, will you thence infer, that we are likewise freed from it? He that framed the heart, can open it, and alter it as pleaseth him; but that is no charter, for us to challenge any knowledge, save what is naturally gathered with our eyes, or with our ears, or supernaturally revealed to us. Wisdom infused from our cradles we have none; we KNOW not our right hand from our left, till by time we be taught; and our teachers, be they men or Angels, must use our outward senses, or our inward imaginations to direct and instruct us: otherwise we can neither conceive nor understand, what they say or show, since they can not lighten our hearts. And when God doth inspire us with that which is good, he not only openeth our hearts, but filleth them with the love of his truth & goodness, without which 
r 1. Cor. 13.  all knowledge is nothing. Now the love of God diffused in our hearts here on earth, raiseth the self same inward and natural motion of the heart, which is incident to that affection; and which other kinds of love do; lest our hearts should be colder and slower in loving God, who requireth all the parts and powers of soul and body to be devoted to his love, than they were in affecting and loving the world. So that first your Antecedent is false; for things inspired must be embraced with the whole heart, before they can please God; and your consequent is ●…orse; since God worketh above nature in things that be good, and leaveth us in things that be evil, to the natural course of our corrupt condition, which receiveth sin from the soul and body, and imparteth it unto both, that neither scape unpunished.  

s Defenc. pag. 62. li. 29.  If the Souls operations were so necessarily tied to the faculties and instruments of the body, as you do avouch, I greatly doubt how the Souls immortality will be defended against the effect of your assertion.] I give the body no essential cooperation with the Soul in understanding and will; I give it a provocation, impression, subjection, and execution in evil, which argueth a communion with the Soul in sin, though understanding and will be the proper actions of the Soul. Now if the soul, so long as she is joined with her body, communicate her sinful operations to the body, is that any proof she can not be severed from the body? Children in their cradles have no knowledge of good and evil. Shall they therefore remain children for ever in mind, and not discern either their happiness in heaven, or their wretchedness in hell? What here they want because the soul is coupled with the body, shall there be supplied, when the soul is parted from the body. Here the soul seeth with the eyes, heareth with the ears, and speaketh with the tongue; but after this life our Saviour teacheth us, that the Soul shall see, hear, and speak after an other manner, as spirits do, though she want eyes, ears and tongue. Here the soul can not move from place to place, but with her body: when she is severed, she shall be carried to Paradise, or hell without her body. Here the passions of the Soul, desire, joy, fear, and sorrow are common to both parts of man: hereafter they shallbe proper to the soul, so long as she abideth uncoupled to the body. Here foolishness, madness, forgetfulness, sickness, weariness, do hinder the operations of the soul: there shall be no such thing. Here the soul sinneth, repenteth, and believeth: there is no place, nor power to commit new sins, nor to repent the old. S. Austen saith thereof. 
t August. in Ench●…rid. cap. 11●….  Istis voluntas, illis facultas non poterit esse ulla peccandi. The Saved can have no will, the Damned no power to sin. So that the condition of the Soul severed from the body, much differeth from the state of the soul joined with the body; and though she communicate her actions good and bad in this life to her body, yet in the next she shall use her understanding and will, and feel her affections and passions without her body.  

u Defenc. pag. 62. li 32.  Surely it bringeth in the heresy of Pope john the two and twentieth, and of certain Anabaptists, that the Soul hath no being till she resume her body at the last day.] Your ignorance is no argument to bring the soul a sleep, till she resume her body. She hath no several being from her body in this life, for that Man consisteth of soul and body united and joined together. Shall she therefore not be severed, or have no being, when she is severed? Are you a Divine and do not know, that God hath so framed the Soul, that she may be united to the body, and also severed from the body, without loss of her essential powers, which yet during this life are seated in the body, and in some sort assisted by the body? The very faculties of sense and motion, which are permixed with the body, and can not be exercised but in the body, retain their root and force still in the Soul, when their operation ceaseth for want of the body. To gather knowledge, and declare consent, the Soul here useth the spirits and parts of the body; yet after this life her understanding and will shall not only persist the same, which they were, but be exceedingly increased and confirmed. For 
x 1. Cor. 13.  now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face. Now we know in part; but then shall we know, even as we are known. Yea love and joy, which here are discerned by the motion of the heart, and alteration of the spirits, shall there be most perfect, and never fall away. So that your doubt of Pope john's heresy to be consequent to my position, is a drowsy slumber of your distempered brain, it hath no coherence with any conclusions or assertions of mine.  

y Defenc. pag. 62. li. 35.  Hence is it, that you say, God's justice punisheth the soul (only) by the body, that is, not till the resurrection.] You can hatch errors foul enough, and fast enough, if you may be suffered to add and alter, what pleaseth you, in other men's words. Between the professions of Arians & Christians, there was but a diphthongs difference, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Atheists holding there is (NO) God, serve but one syllable from the truth. What heresy then may you not come by adding (ONLY) to my words, which I precisely did decline; and made a manifest exception against it, lest any should suspect it? Give me the like liberty in your words, and I will find you holes in every leaf to harbour the grossest heresies, that ever were heard of in Turk or Pagan. But Sir, this is the devils occupation, plainly to pervert the words, that otherwise contain nothing in them but the truth. That the 
z Conclus. pa. 254. li. 34. & pa. 255. li. 1.  justice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soul by the body, which are my words, is a notorious and manifest truth: for he punisheth temporally in this world, and eternally in the world to come after that sort; so that no man is so doltish as to doubt thereof. That God never punisheth otherwise in this life, nor the next, but (ONLY) so, this is your exorbitant imagination, it is no conclusion depending on my words, much less any part expressed in them. 
a Defenc. pa. 62. li. 38.  In truth thus you must needs affirm and hold, you can not avoid it, if you will hold your main question.] In truth your Mastership is mis-sighted; I do not see, nor you do not show, how any such thing is consequent to my question. The absurdity, with which you would entangle me, that 
b Defenc. pag. 63. li. 3.  else God did not properly punish Christ for our sins, is weaker than a spider's web. The proper punishment of sin, without respect to persons, is spiritual, temporal, and eternal death; which Christ could not suffer. The full satisfaction and punishment of our sins in Christ's person, was the death of his body suffered on the cross, with those pains preceding and accompanying it which are described in the Scriptures. And this is so evident and easy, that besides such conceited Sirs as you are, few do or need doubt it.  

c Defenc. pa. 61. li. 11.  If I grant this point of heathen Philosophy, that the Soul taketh occasion to think all things, which she thinketh, universally from the Body and bodily objects, yet it followeth not, 
The means of man's knowledge.  that she taketh occasion to misthink from thence also.] Do you call that heathen Philosophy, which is so plainly perceived by nature, so fully confirmed by Scripture, and so universally confessed on all sides, that the very Heathen could not gainsay it? Tell us I pray you, if you have lately lighted on any new way, how Man may come to knowledge, but either from sense, or by revelation. Our Saviour knew no more ways, when he said to Peter, 
d Matth. 16.  Flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in Heaven. Where men, that are teachers or learners, are called flesh and blood, because without the Body the Soul learneth nothing in this life, but what is revealed unto it by the spirit of God. Saint john knew as few. 
e 1. joh. 1. v. 3.  That (saith he) which we have seen, and heard, declare we unto you, that you also may have fellowship with us. This a man would think were plain enough, that all knowledge must be either naturally infused in us, as it was in Angels; or collected of us by sense and experience, or revealed to us from God. For if we be borne void of all knowledge, as the Scripture expressly testifieth we know not (at first) our right hand from our left; then must we get it by means. And means to come by the knowledge of particular and external things, what can you assign besides the sense? If therefore the Heathen saw this, and you see it not, you prove yourself to have less understanding than the Heathen. The Soul indeed by the power of understanding and reason wherewith she is endued of God, doth in continuance observe, discern, and compare the agreements and contrarieties of things, as also their causes and consequents; and what of herself she can not perceive, she learneth with more ease of others, who are longer and better acquainted therewith, and whose phantasive spirits are thinner and quicker to pierce into the depth of things. The differences then and defects of men's wits do cleerele witness, that not only the instruments of sense, but the Imaginative spirits must concur to attain and increase knowledge in this life, unless God inspire the Hart above nature; which he doth when and where pleaseth him.  
These may be the means of thinking, and yet not the causes or occasions of mis-thinking.] The natural means of thinking must still be the means of well and ill thinking: they vary not, howsoever the mind vary in her resolutions. What or how many may be the causes or occasions of ill thoughts, maketh nothing to this question; it sufficeth for my purpose, to make the body liable to the punishment of every sin, that the parts, powers, or spirits of the Body have any communion with the suggesting, admitting, or performing of each sin. For in all sin not only the Doers, but the leaders, directors, advisers, helpers, consenters, allowers, and rejoices are in their degree partners with the principal. Yea all the instruments are justly detested, where the crime is worthily condemned. But whence ill thinking cometh, can you tell? A man may think and speak of all the errors and heresies in the world, and yet not sin. It is the liking and embracing of them, that maketh the offence, and not thinking or reasoning of them. The will then causeth thoughts to be good or evil, the understanding doth not. Now the will must have somewhat to lead it, which is either the show of truth, or the love of some other thing, which doth prejudice the truth. There is no truth but in the word of God, which we must either hear or read, before we can apprehend. If we stop our ears against the word of God, shall not that wilful deafness of ours turn to the deserved destruction of Body and Soul? If we open our ears, but not our hearts to the voice of God, doth not the love of some earthly good, or fear of some temporal harm close our hearts against the truth? Both which, as well love as fear, come from the bodily senses and affections, and make their manifest impression on the hart, leading the will to consent to their law. For where all ill thoughts are against verity, charity, or temperance; men are led from the truth, by 
f August. de utilitate 〈◊〉. ap 1.  commodity, glory, sovereignty, or credulity, as Austen observeth; whereto if we put, ease, envy, and luxury, we see the causes of all ill thoughts, which have no place in the Soul apart from the Body.  

g Defenc. pa. 62. li. 15.  The proper provocations and pleasures of sin, are often times not outward at all, but the m●…ere perversity and malignity of our evil mind is usually the very cause of ill thoughts, and ill determinations.] You would say some what, if you could tell how. Doth any 
Provocations and pl●…asures c●…me by the senses.  thing properly provoke itself? Doth the fire provoke itself to burn, or the Sun provoke himself to shine? Lameness maketh a cripple to halt, it provoketh him not. And so doth pitch defile the hands, and not provoke them to foulness. The next and necessary causes of things are called efficients, and not provocations. So that will you, nill you, provocations are external either to the person, or to the part, that is the principal, or special Agent. The Apostle teacheth you how to use the word properly, when he saith, 
h Galat 5.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, provoking one an other. The very composition of the word proveth as much, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or provocare, is first to call or urge a man to any thing, before he himself be willing. Then the natural and inward corruption of the mind is no provocation, but the cause ef●…cient of ill thoughts; and if there be any provocations, they must be external to the part, or party provoked. And did you know the principles of learning, or grounds of nature, you would soon perceive, that as well the will of man, as his desire is led with respect of somewhat, that is good, or at least seemeth good, which provoketh and draweth both sense, and will to perform her actions. Now though the desire Antecedent, and delight consequent be inward and inherent, yet the good things which we affect, and would attain, are then external when we pursue them; and when we use them or enjoy them, they are but conjoined with us in possession or opinion, which contenteth both Body and Soul.  
As you do not understand what PROVOCATION meaneth; so do you less perccave what PLEASURE is. You mingle Soul and sense, head and heels together to make some show of opposition; but in the end you bewray your presumptuous ignorance, and daub it over with your wont words of PROPER & MERE, which are as much to this purpose, as salt to make sugar. The PROPER provocations and pleasures of sin are often times, you say, not outward at all.] I used not the word outward; but said, the 
i Conclus. pa. 254. li. 32.  soul took from the body all PROVOCATIONS and PLEASURES of sin (brought to effect) and committed all ACTS of sin by her body: you neither mark the restraint which I made in the beginning of that section, of all sins 
k Ibid. li.. 20.  brought to effect, neither see the words following in the same sentence, which express as much, the 
l Ibid. li. 33.  acts of sin committed; but roving quite from the matter, you ●…arle at my words without judgement or memory. For as you fumble about provocations, so do you about pleasure, which you would make to be merely spiritual. But notwithstanding your toying with terms, that is properly PLEASURE, which the soul taketh by or from the body. Cicero the father of the Latin tongue disputing of pleasure, saith resolutely: 
m Cicero de finibus bonorum & malorum. li. 2.  Omnes jucundum motum, quo sensus hilaretur, Graecè 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Latin voluptatem vocant. All men both in Greek and Latin call that pleasing motion wherewith the sense is delighted, Pleasure. And again: 
n Ibidem.  In eo voluptas omnium Latinè loquentium more ponitur, quum percipitur ea, quae sensum aliquem move at, iucunditas. That is called pleasure by the use of all that speak Latin, when any delight is felt which moveth some of the senses. Plato in his Dialogue called Protagoras, referreth 
o Plato in Protagor.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; gladness to the mind, and pleasure to the b●…die. Aristotle, though he often extend the name of pleasure with some addition to other delights, yet plainly confesseth the word alone signifieth bodily pleasure. 
p Ari●…. ethie●…. li. 7. ca 14.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The pleasures of the body have obtained the inheritance of that name. So Clemens Alexandrinus: 
q 〈◊〉 ●…i. 6.  By bodily spirits a man hath SENSE and PLEASURE. And Athenagoras likewise: 
r De resurrectione mortuorum.  Desires and pleasures have their motion from the body. Zanchius no mean Philosopher and Divine, saith: 
s Zanchius de operi●…us Dei part 3. li 2. ca 3. th●…s. 8.  Affectuum omnium duo sunt capita, voluptas & dolour. Pleasure and pain are the two chief heads of all the (sensitive) affections.  
And did not the word pleasure alone without addition signify the delights of the senses, as by these Philosophers and Divines we see it doth; yet the soul taketh no delight, which the Scriptures do properly call gladness and joy, but she doth communicate the same to her body; insomuch that the Scriptures express the delight and joy of the soul by the moving and leaping of the heart, as it doth sorrow by the shrinking and gathering together of the heart. That the heart is the seat of joy and sorrow, is evident by the word of God. 
t john 16.  Your heart (saith Christ) shall rejoice. 
u Psal. 4.  Thou hast given gladness into mine heart, saith David to God. And again: 
x Psal. 16.  Wherefore mine heart rejoiced. And that the affection of joy in the soul is discerned by the motion of the heart, is there as manifest; 
y 1. Sam 2.  Mine heart leapt, that is, rejoiced in the Lord, said Anna, when she had obtained Samu●…l at the hands of the Lord. 
z Pro. 24.  Let not thine heart leap, saith Solomon, that is, rejoice not at the fall of thine enemy. 
a Psal. 13.  My heart leapt (for joy) in thy salvation, saith David. And God promising comfort and joy to his people, saith; 
b Zach. 10.  Their hearts shall be glad, as with wine; yea their heart shall leap (with joy) in the Lord. Which motion David ascribeth to his soul, saying; My 
c Psal. 35.  soul shall leap (for joy) in the Lord: and the virgin Marie to her spirit, where she saith; My 
d Luc. 1..  spirit hath leapt (for joy) in God my Saviour: thereby showing that the spirit and soul of man affected with joy and gladness, doth raise and stir the hea●…t to a sensible kind of dilating and leaping; even as in sorrow she contracteth and gathereth the heart together. I wrote unto you, saith Paul, in much 
e 2. Cor. 2.  compression, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and shrinking of the heart, that is, sorrow, which contracteth and shrinketh the heart together. A better proof, that soul and body do communicate together in joy and grief, we can not have, than that life and death thereon do depend. 
f Eccles. 30.  The joy of heart is the life of man, and sorrow hath slain many. Which Solomon confirmeth, saying; 
g Pro. 17.  A joyful heart preserveth (the 
h Chalda●…ca paraphr. in Pro. 17.  body) like a medicine, but a grieved spirit drieth the bones. So that all delight of the mind in sin, which you call pleasure, if it affect the soul, it is communicated to the body: if it be so small, that it pierceth not the soul, nor moveth the heart, it deserveth none of those names.  
In examining the acts of sin, you keep the same course that you do in the rest; you light on a licentious phrase, and publish that for a proof. For where I said, all acts of sin the soul committeth by her body, by acts noting deeds, which the soul can not perform without her body; you tell us, the soul can 
i Defenc. pag. 61. li. 3.  act many sins merely in itself, without the cooperation of the body. And though I do not deny, the soul hath her kind of action in all sin, which is actual, whence the name of actual sin reacheth to thoughts, words, and d●…eds; yet thoughts are no acts, neither by the rules of Philosophy, nor of Divinity. Cicero a man no way to seek in the true proprieties of words, prescribing the manner how histories should be written, saith; 
k Cicero d●… Orat. li. 2.  In rebus magni●… memoriáque dignis consilia primum, deinde acta, postea eventus expectantur. In reporting of weighty matters and worthy of memory, first the counsels, than the acts, lastly the events are expected. Where counsels contain purposes and determinations, and acts, 
l .  quid actum aut dictum sit, what was said, and what was done. Aristotle a man too well learned to miss his terms, saith; the 
m  end of speculative knowledge is truth, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, ●…nd of active knowledge the work. Damascene noting their difference, saith; ⁿ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. We must know, that an action is one thing, an act is another thing. And though the words be often used one for another by liberty of speech, 
.  yet in propriety, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, an act is the performing of the action. 
o I●…idem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. For the mind first discussing the event, then worketh by her body; and that he defineth to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, an act. See we not the same confirmed by the Scriptures? The Acts of the Apostles written by S. Luke, do they declare the secret thoughts, or open words, and deeds of the Apostles? The Acts likewise of Counsels, as the Acts of the Council of ●…phesus, express they what the Bishops there inwardly thought in their minds, or what they publicly spoke and decreed? So that the signification of the word ACTS, which I followed, was neither devised nor abused by me, but ●…our new kind of speech, that the soul ACTETH many sins merely in itself, is a vain and idle opposition, since the soul must work by the body before it can be an Act.  

p Defenc. pa. 6●…. li. 18.  I grant that occasion is often taken from the outward senses. But it is merely taken by the corrupt and peru●…rse mind, not given by the sens●…s. Which though they be otherwi●…e corrupt, yet simply in seeing natural things they sin not.] You be very like to handle a Question well, when you do not so much as understand the words therein contained. When it cometh in question, whether in all provocations, pleasures and acts o●… sin, the Soul use her body or no; you answer, the mind is the principal agent in sin, and not the body; as if that were any way pe●…tinent to this matt●…r. Who deu●…teth but life, sense, and motion come from the Soul to the body, and in every of the●… the Soul is the chiefest agent? in so much that these fail, when the Soul departeth from the body? yet that doth not p●…ooue, that in all these things the Soul doth no●… use her body. You say, occasion of sin, is not given by the senses, but taken by th●… 〈◊〉.] Then doth the world, which only offereth things to the senses, give les●…e occa●…on to sin; and Saint john had no cause to say, 
q 1. john. 2.  All that is in the world, th●… 〈◊〉 of the fl●…sh, the d●…sire of the eyes, and pride of life, is not of the Father, but of the world; and 〈◊〉 whole 
●… 1. john. 5.  world ●…eth in evil. For the things, which are in the world, are the good creatures of God, and by their first institution served to show the bounty of God, and to p●…ouoke man to thankfulness, and expectation of better things, which shall not pe●…ish. But man poisoned with sin abuseth them all, and turneth his desire and lo●… from God to transitory and earthly delights. And so now considering his corruption, they are not only occasions, but provocations to induce and entice him to sin. And therefore God knowing upon the fall of Adam, what snares they would become unto Man, for whose sake they were made, 
s Rom. 8.  subjecteth them all to vanity, calling Satan 〈◊〉 Prince and 
t john. 12.  
u ●…phes. 16.  Ruler of this world; for that by infecting man with sin, he had altered and i●…uerted the use and end of the whole world. If then the creatures, which in themselves are senseless and altogether innocent, be now baits to draw men from God. and so made occasions of sin, how much more are the senses of man allu●… 〈◊〉 sin? which not only present these pleasures to the mind, but inflame the af●…ctions to pursue them, and work the will to embrace them? The corruption, you say, is properly and principally in the mind, which being first sinful, abuseth their operation.] As if all the powers of the Soul obeying the will, that is evil, were not subject and se●…uants to sin, as well as the mind? Or the senses and affections of man rebelling against the mind, and incensing the will with their delights and desires, were not sinful as well as the mind? It is the Soul, that taketh her pleasures of sin, as well by her senses, as by her understanding; and to that end setteth her sensitive powers on work; the natural action of the understanding is no more sinful in itself, then is the sense; but the corruption of the Soul abuseth them both in their kinds to content her sinful appetites. Though then the senses be not the very causes of sin, which resteth chiefly in the will, yet since the Soul joineth herself unto the powers of sense by them to embrace and enjoy the pleasures of this life above or against the love of God, at least they must be occasions of sin, if they be no more.  
For 
x Defenc. pag. 61. l. 28.  you to affirm that the Soul committeth all acts of sin by the body, and that God did not forbid Adam to like or desire that fruit, is more than strange doctrine.] In you nothing is strange, no not new hells, new heavens, new deaths of the Soul, and new redemptions of mankind, unknown to the Scriptures and all the fathers of Christ's Church; but unto you every thing is strange, that fitteth not your distempered taste. My words, that the soul committeth all acts of sin by her body, what differ they from Cyprians, which I cited, that the 
y Cypria●… in 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 Christ●….  spirit by the flesh performeth whatsoever it affecteth? What diversity find ye betwixt them, save that I say soul for spirit, body for flesh, all for whatsoever, and acts for things affected? my words being somewhat plainer and easier than Cyprians, and for aught that I see, having no disagreement? The other words, that God did not forbid Adam to like the fruit, smell of your own forge, which reporteth nothing truly. For to prove, that Adam transgressed the commandment with more than his mind, I observed, that God did not say to Adam, Thou shalt not like it, which the soul of Adam did, but Thou shalt not eat thereof. Which precept since Adam did wholly violate, it followeth, he sinned with his hand & mouth, and not with his mind alone. You clip off that which I concluded; and neglecting the affirmative which I adjoined, you note the negative, which I did not simply exclude, but augmented with an addition of another part, that Adam sinned also with his body, and therefore not with his soul alone, or without his body.  
The 
z Defenc. pag. 61. li. 35.  place of Scripture which Tertullian, as you say, pointeth unto, that out of the heart come evil thoughts, being considered, will prove the contrari●…. For Christ here meaneth not by heart any part of the body, but merely the mind and soul of man, and that with opposition to the body in this case of sinning.] You found in your Notebook, that the heart of man is taken in the Scriptures for his will and affection moved with knowledge either from the understanding or from the sense; but the reason why it is so used, you never read, or do not remember. For if a man should ask you, why the hart of man rather than his hand or his heel doth import in the Scriptures his knowledge and will, what answer would you frame? That it is a figure of speech without all reason or cause? Such indeed are your figures, but the holy Ghost useth no such. The Scriptures by the parts of man's body express the powers of man's soul, there seating, and there working: as sight, by the eye; hearing by the ear; speaking, by the tongue; going, by the feet; doing, by the hand; lusting, by the rains; and many such. The very same reason causeth the hart of man to be taken in the Scriptures for his will, which is seated in that part, and by which all his cogitations, affections, and Actions are made good or evil. So that the use of the hart in the sacred Scriptures well considered, doth first plainly prove, that the chief Seat of the Soul is the hart; and next that there it worketh, where it dwelleth, even in the hart, and on that part impresseth all her affections & resolutions, when they once grow to be liked or disliked. And this is so far from opposition to the Body in cause of sinning, that it doth manifestly communicate sin unto the Body.  
In 
a Defenc. pa. 62. li. 2.  effect (Christ) saith not the Body sinneth by taking in, but the Soul by sending out; that is to say, the Soul only properly sinneth, and not the Body at all; no not in gross facts, except as the Body is the Instrument, the Soul being the Agent.] Your exposition of our saviours words, and your illation upon them, do well become one the other. Our Saviour doth not say, the Body sinneth not; But 
b Matth. 15.  that which goeth into the mouth, or eating with unwashed hands, defileth not the man. Now this must be your reason, if hence you make any. Eating or meat defileth not a man. Ergo the Body sinneth ●…ot. How good this argument is, I leave to your friends and yourself to consider. But you farther infer; That which cometh out of man, defileth man, ergo, the Body sinned not at all, no not in gross facts, except as an Instrument. This is figurative Logic, to make the consequent clean contrary to the Antecedent. Out of our saviours words, that which cometh out of man, defileth man, it rightly followeth, that sin coming from the hart defileth man, to wit, the whole man, and so both Body and Soul. For man is not this or that part of man, but the person composed of both. Who then besides you upon these words of Christ, that murders, adulteries, thefts, lies, and slanders defile a man, would conclude that these defile not the Body, or else though they defile the Body, yet that sinneth not, as if Christ spoke here of any pollution, but of sin? The Body you say, sinneth not, except as an Instrument.] How the Body sinneth we need not discuss, so long as it is clear by our saviours voice, that the sin of the hart defileth the Body, as well as the Soul, that is the whole man; more I do not affirm, not require. And so much do evil thoughts, no less than evil deeds by the position of our Saviour; even they defile the man, as well as adulteries, thefts, murders, and such like. Your admitting at last the Body to be an Instrument of sin, doth rather strengthen then weaken mine Assertion. For since the Body is no dead but a living instrument, and so capable of pleasure in sin, as also of pain in punishment, it justifieth my Collection, that sin is common both to Body and Soul, and the satisfaction for sin must likewise be common to both. But yet as I observed, the ancient Fathers have in this Question comprised in the name of the Body the powers of life and sense permixed with the Body, as also the sensitive desires and affections, which sometimes obey, and sometimes rebel against the mind; and these in man are not only capable of sin, but the causes of sin; and in that respect the Body with his sensitive powers and desires is more than an Instrument.  

c Defenc. pa. 62. li. 13.  That which you add of bo●…ly infirmities letting the operation of the Soul, as in Lethargies, Apoplexies, sleep, frenzy, etc. Peradventure than it thinketh and considereth more freely in itself, and by itself, then when the Body setteth it on work otherwise a●… other times.] To let the simpler sort see that the Soul doth not sin in her understanding and will without conjunction with her Body, and some concurrence of her Body; I specified three or four cases open to all men's eyes, as sleep, frenzies, Lethargies, Apoplexies, which are often so strong that they leave in man no use of sense, reason, memory, nor will, whereby he may or doth sin. To this you answer, Peradventure (the Soul) then considereth more freely in itself and by itself, then when the Body setteth it on work.] A Resolution without peradventure agreeable to the rest of your Doctrines; that men deprived of their senses, wits, and memories, perhaps perceive more, judge righter, and remember better, then when they were endued with all three. Surely if madness with you may be sobriety, if Lethargy may be memory, if the overwhelming of sense, reason and remembrance as in strong Apoplexies, may be the increasing of them, you shall do well to profess this new Physic, with your new Divinity, that it may show the perfection of your purity. Many such Conclusions will drive us to think, that your considerations are wiser, when you sleep, then when you wake. If this conceit be true, you were best persuade men to run out of their wits, or to desire and procure Lethargies and Apoplexies as much as they can, that their Souls may be then more considerate. What it pleaseth God sometime to reveal or show to men in sleeps and trances, we are not to meddle with; they are things to us unknown; the natural and ordinary course of understanding and remembering appointed by God for men is that, which we reason of; and that is often so stopped and hindered by sickness or violence, that neither reason, memory, nor will can rightly perform their functions. Which is so well known not only to Philosophers and Physicians acknowledging strong Lethargies and Apoplexies to be the decay, and sometimes the overthrow of reason and memory, but unto Divines, that with one consent they grant men oppressed with violent fury, or natural folly not always to sin in their actions, no not of murder, adultery, theft, and blasphemy, for want of judgement and memory to direct their wills.  
But how cometh this sudden change in you now to confess, that the body setteth the soul a work in her thoughts or considerations, good or bad, who not ten l●…nes before utterly denied, that the body sinned at all, no not in gross facts, otherwise then as an instrument? Doth the axe set the hewer on work? or the saw the drawer? or the pen the writer? The Agent moveth the Instrument, the Instrument setteth not the Agent on work. And if the body setteth the soul on work, I hope it is to do evil as well as good, unless you will defend, that from the body cometh nothing but that which is good. Why then, if the body set the soul on work, when we are waking and well adui●…ed, shall not the body have communion in sin with the soul, which is the very point you here impugn; and yet here you acknowledge before you be ware?  

d Defenc. pag. 62. li. 17.  It can never be proved, that the soul (in those accidents and infirmities) utterly cea●…h opera●… and c●…n do nothing.] If it could not, what is that to this purpose? The operation of the soul is so hindered by them, that often it doth not sin, and that is sufficient to prove all sin to be common to soul and body, which is our que●…n. Let the soul p●…incipally and properly sin (if in the soul you comprise all the powers of reason, sense, and life, which proceed from the soul) and the body be only her instrument, yet so long as the soul can not actually sin, except the body have l●…fe and sense, it is evident that in sin the body must concur with the soul. Now if we adjoin life and sense to the body, which is the subject of both, though the cause of neither, as the learned and ancient Fathers do; and the Scriptures likewise, when they speak of the temptation and rebellion of the body and the members thereof, containing no more in the soul of man, than the will and understanding, which they call the mind, or the inward man: then apparently the body is not only the instrument or occasion of sin by his desires and pleasures, but the first and last s●…at of corruption in this life, and the continual Agent and Attorney for sin and Satan during th●…s life: insomuch, that infecting and subjecting the soul to the lusts of the flesh, it maketh the soul be called flesh, which she can not be in substance, but in cohe●…nce and obedience to the flesh. 
e August. de fide & symbolo. ca 10.  Cr●…imus carnis resurrectionem, non tant●…m quia reparatur anima, quae nunc propter carnales affectiones caro nominatur, sed haec eti●…m visibilis caro, quae naturaliter caro est, cuius nomen anima non propter naturam, sed propter affectiones carnales accepit. We believe the resurrection of the flesh, saith Austen, not o●…ly because the soul is repaired, which now is called flesh for her fleshly affections, but even th●… v●…ble fl●…sh which is natural flesh, whose name the soul taketh, not by admitting the nature, but the affections of the flesh. So Ambrose: 
f Ambros in Epistol. 1. ad Corinth. ca 5.  Victa anima libidine carnis fit caro. The s●…le overcome with the lust of the flesh, becometh flesh. And again: 
g Ibid. in Psal. 118. serm. 4.  Qui secundum corporis app●…tentiam vivit, caro est. He that liveth according to the desires of the body, is flesh. For 
h Idem in epist. ad Rom. ca 6.  fl●…sh is understood to be sometimes the world, sometimes the body of man, or the soul itself following bodily vices. Jerome likewise: 
i Hier. li. 3. in epist. ad Gal. ca 5.  Anima inter humum & ignem, hoc est inter ca●…m spirit●… consistens, quando se tradiderit carni, caro dicitur, quando spiritui spiritus app●…llatur. The soul consisting in the middle between earth and fire, that is, between the ●…sh and the spirit, when she yieldeth herself to the flesh, she is called flesh, and when she yieldeth herself to the spirit, she is then termed a spirit. And showing more largely, that by the flesh is meant the body, he addeth; 
k Ibidem.  The flesh feareth cold, disliketh hunger, is ●…ned with watching, burneth with lusting, mollia quaeque & jucunda desiderat; desireth all e●…e and pleasure. So that the delights and desires of the body, which are sensual and c●…ll, do not only draw the soul to sin, but causeth the soul to be called flesh, in that she yieldeth or giveth herself to the lusts and pleasures of the flesh.  
Y●…t can it not be proved, you think, that the soul utterly ceaseth her operation.] So long as the body liveth, the soul can not utterly cease all her operations of reason, sense, and life; for then of force she must depart her body: but in extreme madness and forgetfulness of all things, as Lethargies, Apoplexies, and even in sound sleep she utterly ceaseth from actual operation of sin, for want of understanding and remembering what she doth. The punishment of Nabuchodonosor described in Daniel, is an evident proof, that all operations of reason and memory may utterly cease in the soul of man here in this life, though the faculties or powers thereof can never fail. The Scripture saith of him; Let 
l Dan 4 v. 13.  his heart be changed from a man's, and the heart of a beast given him. Which was performed by the madness and fur●…e that Nabuchodonosor fell into▪ as all sorts of writers, profane and Christian, do witness. Eusebius citeth two marvelous ancient and profane Historiographers, 
m ●…useb. prae●…arat. evangeli. 〈◊〉. li 9 ●…a. 4.  Abidenus and Megasthenes, that Nabuchodonosor was 
●…useb. prae●…arat. evangeli. 〈◊〉. li 9 ●…a. 4.  fur●…re diu●…tus captus strooken from heaven with a madn●…. Jerome saith, Nabuchodonosor was so 
n Hi●…ron. in ca 4 Danie●….  furious and mad, that he remembered not the good which God promised him for his restitution. Theodoret saith of him, he was 
o .  cast from m●…n for his disease: who being taken with fury and madness would have done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Beda. Nabuchodonosor the King was 
p Be●…n job. ca 12.  turned to a bru●…shnesse of mind, when by God's judgement his h●…bitation is written to have been with beasts seven years. Lyra. Nabuchodonosor lost the ●…vse of reason by madness, and so became as a beast; and during the time of his madness abode in the sields with beasts. Munster expounding 
.  the words of Daniel touching Nabuchodonosor saith; Let human reason be taken from him, and the sense of a b●…ast given him. For 
r .  growing m●…dde with the change of his ●…ginatiue power, he carried himself as a beast. Whether it were with madness or br●…shnesse that Nabuchodonosor was strooken, I greatly force not; it is certain by the words of the Scripture, that human reason and sense was taken from him for seven years; and consequently, the soul of man may utterly cease all operation of reason and understanding even in this life.  
This will not be strange to him that rightly considereth the state of men possessed with devils, and reported even in the Scriptures. The madness of him whom the Gosp●…ll describeth in the coast of the Gadarens, that no chains could hold him, but 
Mar●…. 5.  he lived among the graves, 
t Lu●…. 8.  naked, and 
s Mar●…. 5.  cried night and day, 
s Mar●…. 5.  striking himself with stones, and ●… fiercely assaulting all ●…hat passed by the way, showeth that all human reason 
u Matth 8.  and memory were quite banished from him by Satan, turning and tossing the corporal imaginations and affections of the possessed as pleased him, and distracting the wi●…s and subverting the remembra●…e, so that the surious person in apprehension and operation differed nothing from a raging beast. A learned and public professor of Physic writeth thus of raging frenzy: 
x 〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉 arti●… meden●… li 2. sect. 1. ●…a. 9  Madness is an hurt in the brain corrupting all moral virtues; and first the imagination itself; (for they imagine those things that are not●…:) ●…condly, the very cogitation and r●…son of man; for with them there is no distinction bet●…t honest and d●…shonest, good and evil, friend and foe: thirdly, it corrupteth memory, so that they pre●…ly ●…get the thing even then s●…ene or heard. And what marvel to see this p●…ormed by di●…els and diseases, when the defects of nature do often leave to men nei●…er use of reason nor remembrance? S. Austen saith of natural fools; 
y .  Quid●…m tantae sunt ●…tuitatis ut non multùm a pecoribus differant; Some are so sottish, that they differ not mu●… from brute beasts. Which Galene confirmeth, where he saith, that the evil aff●…ction of the brain is much intended, 
z .  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; when together with the m●…morie reason is abolished, as in sottishness. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. For both these (reason and memory) are lost in l●…thargies, and all sleepy affections. If the soul have no communion with her body in thinking and remembering, how can the defects or disten pers of the brain with heat or cold take away the operation and use of reason and memory; which both learning and experience do manifest? Yea go no farther than sound sleep, which is the proper affection and ligation of the sensitive faculties; and if the soul do freely think and will, when the body sleepeth, why should we not as usually sin in sleep, as when we wake? but that is repugnant to the principles of truth, as Tertullian well observeth; 
a .  Et bonafact a gratuita sunt in somnis, & delicta secura: non magis enim ob stupri visionem damnabimur, quam ob Martyrij coronabimur. Both good deeds are thankless in sleep, and offences blameless: for we shall be no more condemned for dreaming of adultery (committed) than we shall be crowned for dreaming of martyrdom (suffered.) It is evident therefore, that in sin the sense hath such a communion with the soul, that without it the soul doth not sin.  
If by natural dreams you would prove the perpetual operation of the soul, even when the body is at rest, (for celestial dreams come not often, and but to few;) remember first, that all ages and persons do not dream. 
b Arist. de 〈◊〉. ca 3.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. It hath happened to some, saith Aristotle, that they ne●…er dreamt in all their life. Pliny and Plutarch confirm 
c Pl●…nius natural. hist. li. 10. ca 75.  
c Plutarch. d●… ora. ul. de●…ct.  the same. 
d Arist. ib●…d.  To some (saith he) dreams happen when they grow in years, who before that time never dreamt. Next in those that use it, strait upon meat, (whiles sleep is sound) they dream not, but upon distribution and revocation of the natural heat up to the head. Thirdly, in dreams (except they be from God) it is certain that men's imaginations, which have corporal spirits and seats, work as well as their mind; and so the operation of the soul in sleep is no way continual, nor excludeth the body, though the outward and common sense be bound and oppressed with sleep. And even the first ordaining of sleep for man by God proveth, that in meditation & contemplation the spirits of the brain (which are aerial, yet corporal) are used by the soul in this life. For with inward and earnest intention of the mind and understanding those spirits wax hot and dry, and therefore of necessity must be cooled and tempered with sleep; otherwise if men lack sleep long, frenzy disturbeth both reason and remembrance. By the manner of curing Lethargies, Apoplexies, Epilepsies, Frenzies, and such like, Galen resolutely concludeth, that the 
c Galenus de l●…cis affect●…. li. 3 ca 5.  discourse of reason and remembrance of sensitive imaginations have their seat in the body of the brain, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; and the first instrument of the soul to all sensible and voluntary operations is the spirit, that is in the hollowness (or celles) of the brain. Damascene being a Divine, saith as much: The 
f Damascen. Orthodox fidei. li. 2. ca 20.  power of imagination receiving (the resem●…ances of) natural things from the sense, delivereth the same to the cogitation and consultation of the mind, (for they both are one;) which taking them and judging of them, sendeth them to the memory. 
g Ibid. ca 19  The instrument (of the cogitative and consultive part (of the soul) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is the middle cell of the brain, and the animal spirit that is there: and the 
h Ibid. ca 20.  instrument of the part m●…moratiue is the hinder cell of the brain, and the animal spirit that is in it. Where the instrument is taken for the seat in which the soul worketh, and object, from whence the soul receiveth the representations of things, on which she worketh.  
If the soul's operations hang so necess●…rily on the body, the doubt is how she may be separated from the body.] The power, by which the soul discerneth and judgeth of things offered by sense, or by revelation, is internal and essential, so that when she is severed, she is fully possessed of that faculty as part of her nature. The means, by which she cometh to the knowledge of external and particular things in this life, are naturally her senses and spirits, by which she worketh in the body; supernaturally the power of God, which now and hereafter lighteneth the eyes of the soul, and not only continueth her knowledge here obtained, but increaseth the same, and representeth to the mind and conscience all things good or bad here obscured, neglected, or forgotten. The separation of the soul from the body, and her knowledge after this life, depend not upon her natural power and strength, but upon the word and hand of God, who can 
i Heb. 4.  divide the spirit from the soul even in this life, and either take or give both sense and reason, from her or to her as pleaseth him. From Nabuchodonoser God took all cogitation and operation of human reason and sense; he doth the same to others, when it liketh him. Paul living was rapt 
k 2. Cor. 12.  into the third heaven, whether in the body, or out of the body, he could not tell; (but either way was easy to God:) as also john, when he was in the body, was willed to 
l revel. 4.  ascend up to heaven, and was there in his spirit, his body not dying in the mean space, whiles his spirit was absent. To children that utterly know nothing in this life, God will give exact and perfect knowledge of their States, by revealing unto them either his mercies, or their miseries. In us all God will 
m 1. Corin. 4.  lighten the secrets of darkness; and as he is truth, so suffer no truth to lie hid in his presence. We shall not only remember all the works of our hands, and 
m 1. Corin. 4.  counsels of our hearts, which now we have forgotten, but we shall see each others deeds and thoughts, which is no way possible for our natural ability, so far as shall be needful for the declaration of his just judgement. For 
n Luke 8.  nothing is secret, that shall not be open, neither is there any thing hid, that shall not be known, and come to light. Therefore never doubt, whether the soul having left her natural and corporal means of knowledge shall sleep till the day of resurrection, she shall have an other manner of knowledge, than here she had, either to her everlasting comfort or confusion. She shall then perceive and discern the things, which 
o 1. Cor. 2.  eye never saw, nor ear ever heard, nor ever ascended into the heart of man here on earth. Howbeit neither the separation nor intellection of the soul pertain directly to this question. I speak not of cogitations, nor of operations of the soul, except they be sinful, and those cease after this life, though the knowledge of the soul remain; and in this life when sense, discretion, or memory do wholly fail, (vnles●…e it be by our own fault, as in gluttony, drunkenness, immoderate passions of love, or anger, and such like) there also the committing of actual sin faileth.  

p Defenc. pag. 63. l 9  Further you commit two grievous faults: 1 Tertullian the principle ground, which you have for your opinion here, is wonderfully ill used: 2 you are strangely contrary to yourself in your very winding up of the matter. 
q Li. 36.  It seemeth that Tertullian cited before the reason of the Heretics, holding that the souls slep●…●…ill the day of judgement, and received no reward at all in the mean time for want of the society of their flesh; but 
r Pag. 64. l. 20.  Tertullian answereth and renounceth all the same. And so those were the Heretics words against Tertullian, which you allege out of him in steed of Catholics.] It is no fault in you to read so loosely and err so grossly, that you see neither Tertullia's intent, method, nor proofs; but wilfully taking the words that are his own, an●… common to him with the rest of the ancient and Catholic Fathers, as if they were the words of Heretics, to blur him and the rest with the spot of heresy, when they speak a truth received and believed in the Church of Christ. It seemeth, you say, Tertullian cited the reasons of the Heretics holding the soul slept till the last judgement.] It is past seeming, that either your eyes were not open, when you read that place of Tertullian, or your wits so weak, that you could not understand your Author. Tertullian in that book speaketh not one word of the sleeping or not sleeping of the soul till judgement; he directeth his whole discourse against such as denied the resurrection of the flesh, and therefore held the soul alone after this life should ever lastingly be rewarded, or punished without the society of her body. To reprove that heresy, which is the overthrow of all Christianity, Tertullian divideth his Treatise into two principle parts; the reasons inducing, and the promises in the Scriptures assuring the resurrection of the body. The reasons inducing it he recalleth to three chief stems. For where the Heretics to discredit the resurrection of the flesh, opposed the 1 baseness of the flesh unworthy to rise; 2 the destruction of the flesh by fire, water, devouring, rotting and such like, as impossible to be restored; 3 the dullness of the flesh, as having neither will, wisdom, or sense of itself, but being only the vessel of the soul, and so subject to no punishment, in that it is guilty of no sin: Tertullian to surprise them in their own principles, produceth the number of honours that God hath done to man's flesh in this life, the examples of God's power reviving things dead, and restoring things perished, and the rule of God's justice, which must not acquit the body, that is partner with the soul in all her actions. The first part he concludeth in these words. 
s Tertull. de resurrectione car●…. cap. 9  To sum that I have said; the fl●…sh, which God framed with his own hands after his image, which he quickened with his breath after the similitude of his life fullness; which he advanced to possess, use, and govern all his works, which he adorned with his Sacraments and disciplines, whose cleanness he loveth, whose correction he approveth, whose suffering he holdeth precious, shall it not rise again, that so many ways belongeth to God? The second part he bindeth up in this wise: 
t Tertullianus ibide●…. ca 12.  All things return to the state which they lost; all begin when they cease, and therefore are ended, that they may be renewed. Nothing perisheth, but to be kept. This whole course of things (in heaven and earth) is a witness of the Resurrection of the dead. God did first work it, before he did write it; he declared his power, before he spoke the word. He sent nature to teach thee, that thou mightst the more easily believe prophesy, being first the Disciple of Nature; and not doubt, that God could raise the flesh, whom thou knowest to restore all things. And if all things rise again to man, for whom they were made, and not to man, except to his flesh; what an absurdity is it, that the flesh should utterly perish, for whose sake, and to whose use nothing perisheth?  
Before he entereth the third part, he maketh this preface. 
u Tertullianus ibide●…. ca 14.  Exorsi sumus ab AUTHORITATE carnis, de hinc prosecuti de POTENTIA dei: velim etiam de CAUSA requiras: quia subest dicere, & si caro capax restitui, & si divinitas idonea restituendi, sed ca●…sa restitutionis pr●…sse debebit. We began with the ESTIMATION of the flesh, whether that being perished were meet to be restored; we than handled the POWER of God, whether that be so great, as useth to repair things decayed: Now if both those be admitted, I would have you require the CAUSE, whether there be any so weighty, as to make the resurrection of the flesh necessary, and every way answerable to reason; for that we may say, though the flesh be fit to be restored, and God able to restore it, yet there ought to be a cause why it should be restored. The cause of resurrection, Tertullian pursueth plainly, pithily, purposely in three whole Chapters; expressly and directly teaching, that the whole man must be judged, to wit both body and soul, because the whole man lived, and joined in every action. 
x Ibid. ca 1●….  This is the whole cause (saith he) yea the necessity of the resurrection, most agreeable to God, the appointing of judgement. For that, which must be judged, must be raised. The judgement of God we affirm must be believed to be full and perfect, as it is final, and ever after perpetual; and therefore the fullness and perfection of judgement not to be without the representing of the WHOLE MAN. Now the whole man consisteth in the mixture of two substances, and so must be presented to judgement in both, since the whole must be judged. Such then as he li●…d. such must he be judged, because he must be judged for his doings whiles he lived. Descending then to show that the Soul and body joined in all things good and bad here on earth, and taxing his adversaries the heretics as absurd, for dividing the body from the Soul in the actions of this life; he thus challengeth them in the very next words: 
y Tertullianus ibidem. 15.  Age iam scindant adversary nostri carnis animaeque contextum prius in vitae administratione, ut ita audeant scindere illud etiam in vitae remuneratione. Negent operarum societatem, ut meritò possint etiam mercedem negare. Non sit particeps in sententia caro, si non fuerit & in causa. Go on then, let our adversaries first sever the jointure of body and Soul in the administration of this life, that so they may dare to part the same in the Remuneration of this life. Let them deny the fellowship of actions, that they may justly de●…e the reward thereof. Let not the flesh be partner in the sentence (of judgement) if it were not companion in the cause (or desert.) But so far is it, that the Soul alone did pass this life, that we do not exempt thoughts, though sole, and not brought to effect, from the communion of the flesh. For in the flesh, and with the flesh, and by the flesh, is that done of the Soul, which is done in the hart. This part of the flesh, as the chief castle of the Soul, the Lord taxeth, when he reproveth thoughts, (saying) Why think you evil in your hearts? And again, He that beholdeth a woman to desire her, hath committed adultery in his hart. So that thought without deed or effect, is the act of the flesh. Never is the Soul without the flesh, so long as she is in the flesh. She doth every thing with the flesh, without which she is not. Look then whether thoughts also be administered by the flesh, which are outwardly perceived by the flesh. Let the soul revolve any thing (with herself,) the countenance maketh show thereof. Let them deny the fellowship of facts, when they cannot deny the fellowship of thoughts, (between the Body and the Soul.) Thus stand Tertullias words. I ask now the simplest Reader that is, whether the ancient writer earnestly pursue his main and coherent matter against his Adversaries the Heretics, or whether he allege their reasons against himself. The Discourser could not see the wood for trees; but like a baby mistaketh the full and continual text and proofs of Tertullian for his adversaries words, though Tertullian himself expressly avouch the contrary.  
His adversaries reasons if you would feign know, Sir Discourser, you may read them in the next Chapter, as like yours, as if the one had hatched the other. 
z Ibidem ca ●…6.  Dicent carnem nihil sapientem, nihil sentientem, per semetipsam, non velle, non nolle, de suo habentem, vice poti●…s vasculi apparere animae, ut instrumentum, non ut ministerium. Itaque animae soli●… judicium pr●…idere, qualiter usa sit vasculo carnis: vasculum veró ipsum non esse sentent●… obnoxi●…m. These (Heretics) will say, that the flesh having neither understanding nor sense of itself, and neither will nor nill of his own, is added to the Soul as a VESSEL, and INSTRUMENT, not as a SERVANT. And therefore the Soul alone must answ●…re in judgement. how she hath used her vessel; but the vessel itself is in no danger of ●…entence. Is not this the very root of your reason, when you say, 
a Defenc. pa. ●…2. li 4.  the body sinneth not at all no not in gr●…sse facts, except as it is the instrument; Otherwise the body sinneth not at all? And if the Body be free from sin, then certainly it is fr●…e from condemnation. For neither part of man is condemned, but for sin. And Tertullia's inference is as good against you, as it was against those Heretics which denied there was any cause ●…or the flesh to rise again to judgement. 
b .  jam ergo innocens caro, ex part qua non reputabu●…tur illi operae malae: & nihil prohibet innocentiae nomine saluam eam ●…ieri. Then surely the fl●…sh is innocent, in as much as evil works shall not be imputed to it, and there is no let why the fl●…sh should not be saved in respect of his innocency, (though the Soul be damned.) Wherefore you must bring the Body within the communion of sin, or cl ere it in justice from all condemnation, and so frustrate the cause of resurrection. The last is the error, which Tertullian so much impugned; the first is the thing, which Tertullian and I a●…rme, and you would seem to withstand as exceeding ●…urtfull and untrue. Howbeit your ●…nder shifts avoid not Tertullias proofs, much less doth your rash censure prejudice his assertion, that was common to him with the best learned in Christ's Church, as I have showed. The difference betwixt an instrument, and a servant. Tertullian forgetteth not: 
c .  Every vessel or instrument is altogether of another matter from the s●…bstance of man. But the fl●…sh, that was at sirst sowed in the womb, framed, and borne together with the Soul, Etiam in omni operatione mis●…tur illi, is joined with the sam●… in every action. The Body is called by the name of a vessel for that it receiveth and hold●…th the Soul; but it is also m●…n by communion of nature, who hath the flesh in his operations n●…t a●… an ●…nstrument, but as a servant. The Apostle knowing this, that the flesh doth nothing o●… it sel●… which is not imputed to the soul, notwithstanding determineth the flesh to be sinful, le●…st it sh●…uld ●…e tho●…ght to be free from judgement, in that it is lead by the Soul. Otherwise not so much a●…●…eproofe could agree to the flesh being void of fault.  
But T●…rtullian afterward 
d .  renounceth, you say, all this same.] If you spoke of yourself, I would easily admit, that you would falter in your words, and for want of judgement o●… truth, unsay that which before you said; but Tertullian in this place is far from it. He ratifieth that which he affirmed from the beginning, it is only your bluntne●…, that rightly conceive him not, as you do nothing else. For he doth not exclude the body from the communion of each sin, to which he fastened it before, but he noteth, that as the Soul when she sinneth with her Body, beginneth with desire, tho●…ght and ●…ill of her own, BEFORE the Body y●…eldeth service and assistance to accomplish the sin, so it is not repugnant to justice, that after this life the Soul should BE●…IN to suffer, BEFORE the Body be restored to her. This is not my imagination of Tertullia's speech, it is his own explication and restriction to the words which you bring. 
c .  Id●…irco pro quo modo egit, pro eo & pat●…ur apud Inferos; prior degus●…ns ●…dicium sicut prior induxit admissum. Therefore the Soul suffereth in hell after the ●…me manner, w●…ich she observed in sin, first tas●…ng judgement, as she first induced the sin. ●…uery child seeth, that PRIOR in Tertullia's words applied to the Soul, must have relation to POSTERIOR intended to the flesh, and consequently that each sin must be common to both; yet so that the soul first beginneth it by thought, will, and desire, and the body followeth with subjection and service. This distinction or distribution between the soul & the body, but still IN THE SAME SINS; Tertullian observed before, when he said, 
f Ibid. ca 15.  Etsi anima est quae agit & impellit in omnia, carnis o●…equium est. Though the soul be that which leadeth and urgeth to every thing, yet the fl●…sh ●…s it which ye●…ldeth service. 
g Ca 16.  And again: Animae imperium, carni obsequium distribu●…s. We assign the rule and direction (in good and evil) to the soul; the service (or attendance) to the flesh. So saith he in the words which you bring, though mistranslated and misapplied: 
h Ca 17.  Quantum ad agendum de suo sufficit, tantum & ad patiendum. How mu●…h (the soul) brought of her o●…ne towards the action, so much she bringeth towards the su●…fering: and notas you translate, 
i Defenc. pag. 63. li. 1●….  for as much as it sufficeth by itself to do some●…hat. Where you commit two faults, to make the words sound somewhat to your sense; the first in rendering Quantum, how much, very doubtfully, as if it were 〈◊〉, forasmuch as; the ●…econd in Englishing de suo, by itself, of purpose to exclude the concurrence of the body; which Tertullias de suo doth not. For in a joint action that is common to many, men may bring some things de suo, of their own; and yet that barreth not the others to bring likewise de suo, some things also of t●…eir o●…ne.  
The like course you keep in the rest: for where Tertullian saith, Ad agendum autem 〈◊〉 de suo s●…fficit; h●…bet enim de suo, solummodo ●…ogitare, velle, cupere, disponere: ad per●…ndum autem operam carnis expectat. To do aught, the soul of her own is not suf●…; for of her own she hath only thought, will, desire, and disposition, but to perform any thing s●…e expecteth or needeth the help of the flesh. You forget, that minùs in Latin is a neg●…iue, and here standeth to the Verb; which you make a comparative, and put to the Gerund; and so where Tertullian saith, the soul is not sufficient of her own to do any thing (he meaneth perfectly or fully, by which words he after expoundeth himself) you make him say, the soul is sufficient by itself to do the less; for it is able of itself only, to think, to will, to desire, to dispose. Where the word solummodo, ONLY, which is added to the Verbs following, you cut from them with a point, and join it to the Pronoune precedent, saying, it is able of itself only; meaning without the body, thereby to exclude the body from all communion and impression of the thoughts, which Tertullian before did impart to the body. And thus by wresting Tertullias words, you make him c●…ntrarie to himself, because he should not seem contrary to you; which is the cou●…se of your unlearned skill, used every where by you, when any thing standeth in your way. Otherwise Tertullia's words are plain enough after his manner, and no way repugnant to that which went before, but have in them rather an exposition, what service and sub●…ction the body yieldeth to the soul in sin, without which the soul can accomplish no sin. For though desire, cogitation, and will are in the soul●… as her own, and come from the soul to begin every sin, yet she can perf●… no sin without her body.  
Likewi●… your col●…ection out of Tertullian, that the 
k Defenc. pag. 63. li. 30.  soul now without the flesh receiu●…th i●…gement for such actions, as of itself it was sufficient to do,] hath neither any 
The foretact of judgement in hell is neith●…r full, final, perpetual, nor g●…nerall.  truth in it nor concordance with your author's sense or words: for Tertullian confidently pronounceth, that the 
l De resurrect. carnis. ca 14.  judgement of God must be believed to be FULL, FINALI, and PERPETVALL; none of which agree to the judgement that you pretend for the actions of the soul alone without the body. It is NOT FULL, because the one half of man is absent: it is NOT FINAL, because an other judgement and sentence shall follow after: it is NOT PERPETVALL, because it dureth but till the resurrection, when both soul and body shall be cast into everlasting fire: it is NOT GENERAL, because such of the wicked, as live when Christ shall come to judge the quick and dead, shall not have their souls punished apart from their bodies. This doctrine therefore is very false, that sins m●…erely spiritual, as you term them, namely, Heresies, turcism, and Atheism, shall not be punished in, or after the last judgement, when the body shall be reunited to the Soul, because their punishment the soul alone must suffer, since she alone committed them, as you say, without any consent or communion of her body. Neither doth Tertullian call this punishment of the soul without the body simply or absolutely JUDGEMENT, but the TASTE or SHOW of judgement. Hilary saith rightly of it. 
m Hilarius in Psal. n. 2.  The day of judgement is the repaying of eternal joy or pain. The time of death in the mean space hath every one tied to his state, dum ad judicium unumquemque aut Abraham reseruat, aut poena; Whiles either Paradise, or punishment keepeth every man for judgement. So Tertullian 
n Tertull. de anima. cap. 58.  Curio non putes animam & puniri & foveri in inferis sub expectatione utriusque judicij in quadam usurpatione & candida eius? Why shouldest thou not think the Soul to be comforted and punished below in the earth under the expectation of either judgement (of eternal happiness or cursedness) in a kind of usurping and foreshowing thereof? That Tertullian here calleth 
o De Resurrect. carn●…. cap. 17.  degustans judicium, a foretasting of judgement, but no full final, perpetual or general sentence, which are the properties of Gods just judgement against all sins of thoughts, words, or deeds.  
Tertullian confesseth that the Soul doth 
p De anima. cap 58.  not divide all her works with the ministery of the flesh, and that the Divine censure doth pursue the only thoughts and bare Wills of men. And therefore he saith, 
q Ibidem. ca 40  Sensus delictorum etiam sine affectibus imputari solent anime. The very purposes (or desires) of sin without their effects are imputed unto the Soul.] When Tertullian speaketh of sin committed by the Soul alone without the Body or the help thereof, he meaneth without any external PART of the Body concurring thereto; as in outward facts, when hands, or feet, or other members of the Body are employed to bring the sin to a sensible act and effect. Take his own example in both these places. 
r Ibidem. cap. 40. & 58.  Qui viderit ad concupiscendum, iam adulteravit in cord. He that seeth a woman to desire her, hath committed adultery in his hart. Is any man so childish as to think, the Soul can see or desire a woman without corporal sense or concupiscence? There is then in that case plainly the concurrence of the eyes and affections, which are bodily; but yet because the Act is not accomplished, the sin remaineth in the hart alone, and proceedeth not unto the DEED. And so dividing sins into thoughts, words, and deeds, as Saint Austen and other Divines do, when words and deeds are forborn, they often say that men sin in thoughts alone; but this doth not exclude the inward conjunction and communion of the Soul with the Body in sin, which is denied to be corporal, because it is not open to the sense Notwithstanding the powers of the Soul used therein are permixed with the spirits of the Body, which are corporal in comparison of the Soul, though spiritual in respect of the grossness of the flesh, in that they are aerial, and approach the nature and pureness of air, to which the word spirit is usually applied. So that the diverse taking of the Body, sometimes for the outward mass of flesh subjecteth to sense, sometimes for the inward powers of life and sense tempered with the body, causeth this difference of speech in Tertullian and the rest of the fathers; who all concur in this, that except the body have life and sense, the Soul can commit no actual sin. For we must not only be living, but awaked and advised, before we can voluntarily run into sin. Of sleep, which bereaveth us of sense, I have spoken before; of death, which taketh life from us, it is also certain that thereby sin ceaseth in us.  

s Rome 6.  He that is dead is freed from sin, saith the Apostle, that is, sinneth no more; so chrysostom expoundeth it. 
t .  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. He that is dead is delivered from sinning any more. And jerom. 
u .  Mortuus omnino non peccat. The dead doth by no means sin. Ambrose. 
x .  Impius si moriatur, peccare desinit. The wicked when he dieth, ceaseth to sin. Epiphanius. 
y .  In the next world after a man is dead, there is no righteousness, nor repentance: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, nor any works of sin. For as Hilary observeth, 
z  Decedentes de vita, simul & de iure decedimus voluntatis. When we depart this life, we are withal cut off from all liberty of Will. Theophylact. The 
x .  Apostle speaketh thus of every man. For he that is departed from this life, is justified from sin, to wit, he is loosed and delivered from it. Our new writers affirm no less. Bullinger. 
b  This is a general Rule, the dead doth not sin at all; yea, he can not sin. Peter Martyr upon the same place. 
c .  The dead cease from their evil actions, in which before they lived. calvin. The 
d .  Apostle reasoneth from the propriety of death, which abolisheth all the actions of this life; Beza. The 
e ●…za, Annotat●…. in 6. caput ad Romanos.  Apostle speaketh of the effect of death, which maketh us when we are dead, necessarily to cease from the actions of this life, and consequently from sin. So that leroms conclusion is very true. The 
f Hierony in Ecclesiast. ca 9  dead are able to add nothing to that, which they brought with them out of this life. For neither can they do well, nor sin, neither increase virtues nor vices. If then the Soul can not sin, except the body have life and sense, (for neither in death, nor sleep men do sin) without question the body must concur to the committing of all sin; and the action is common to both. And if not only life and sense be required in the body, but intelligence and remembrance to discern good from evil, must remain unperished, before the Soul can sin, (for otherwise Infants, mad men, and others strooken with Lethargies, Epilepsies, and Apoplexies, should do nothing but sin, by continual omitting of good, if not committing of evil) and these natural infirmities, or violent distempers of the brains come from the body, and overwhelm the actions of reason and memory; how can the body be excluded from the communion of all sin, whose parts and spirits, if they be inflamed or obstructed, do excuse men from sin, by hindering the judgement of good and evil? And where no sin is committed, but that which is either embraced with love and delight, or else enforced with fear and dislike; and all these have their sensible impressions and motions in the heart; how should the body be free from any sin, which hath his manifest delectation and contentation in every sin, be it never so inward and spiritual? Howsoever than your unlearned and unbridled humour pronounce this Doctrine to be exceeding untrue and hurtful, and more than strange, and even heretical; it is a fair, plain, and Christian truth, that all sin in man is common to body and Soul, and that as both parts do join in the committing of each sin, so shall both be coupled in the punishment of each sin; though the Soul, as she first beginneth, and most affecteth sin, whether by her sense, or understanding; so shall she first taste, and most feel the just judgement of God against sin.  
Lastly you contradict yourself. For you grant, that the Soul hath 
g Defenc. pa. 64. li. 10.  some sufferings in this life and the next, which come not by the body.] I grant it indeed; and therefore your impudency is the more, who by adding (only) to my former words would make me say the contrary. I 
h Ibidem li. 15  suppose you denied before the Souls punishment without the body.] Where and what are my words that make the denial? You and your friends have scanned them often, and near enough; show them, or else your supposing will prove by your leave but a shameless enforcing. The strongest words, that I have sounding that way, are these; 
i Conclus. pag. 254. li. ●…ima.  The justice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the Soul by the body. Which words are apparently sound and true; and therefore you could not falsify them, but by putting (only) of your own unto them, which was no part of my speech nor intent. 
k Defenc. pag. 64. li. 19  Seeing now you grant it, therefore it followeth by your own words, that the wicked sinned merely in and by their Souls.] It is a world to hear a man conclude so much, and conceive so little. For first though the Soul be punished without the body, yet is that not the full punishment of sin (which is and must be eternal) for want of the body; and therefore this reason is rightly returned on your own head. For if the body (as you say) do not sin at all, then should the Soul everlastingly be punished without the body. But that is express heresy, gainsaying the resurrection and condemnation of the body to everlasting fire. Since then the punishment of the Soul is not full without the body, it is a necessary point of Christian truth, that the body did sin as well as the Soul; otherwise it should unjustly be punished together with the Soul. Again, what if the body before judgement be not punished in the same place, nor with the same pain that the Soul is; is that a consequent, the body is free from all punishment of sin? As though privation of life, corruption to dust, subjection to the curse, and obligation to eternal fire were no punishments, which are allotted to the body for the time, till the day of general resurrection and judgement. Wherefore this reason also recuyleth upon you. For if the bodies of the wicked, when they be severed from their Souls, are not exempted from some punishment of sin; that rather inferreth the body was partner with the Soul in sin, then utterly innocent, as you would have it.  
How 
l Defenc. pa. 64. li. 23.  sound this is I wot not, where you yield none other real and positive punishment now to the Damned, but remorse and remembrance of sin only, as it seemeth.] What talk you of soundness, till you show yourself to have more sense in matters of Religion? To repeat all the pains, which the damned do suffer, would trouble your wits; and if I could do it, to what purpose were it? I said, the Soul severed from her Body was punished in hell with the 
m Conclus. pa. 257. li. 19  remembrance of sin, gnawing the conscience; 
m Conclus. pa. 257. li. 19  loss of God's favour, afflicting the mind; 
m Conclus. pa. 257. li. 19  besides the pain of fire, which torment is unspeakable. Your eyes did not serve you to see those words, besides the pain of fire; You vouch, I yield no punishment to the damned now but remorse and remembrance of sin ONLY.] Let your discrete Readeriudge, what dealing this is, and how well you deserve to be believed upon your word. The fire of hell you will say, is no real nor positive punishment.] The trial of that will cost you dear, you were best forbear your dreams, till you bring your proofs. You would have, if I guess right at your meaning, immediate pain from the hand of God tormenting Souls in hell: but when you prove, that God is not able as well with means to punish the Souls of the wicked, as without means; and that the fire of hell so often threatened in the Scriptures, is but a figure of speech to make us afraid, we will hearken after your new real and positive punishments, which you so highly esteem, because they are devised by yourself.  
In saying that Christ was not free from some proper punishments to his Soul, as sorrow and 
Pain. proper to the Soul, is not by and by the pains of hell.  fear in his Agony, 
n Defenc. pa 64. li. 26.  If you mean as you speak, than it followeth evidently from your own words, that Christ suffered proper punishment in his Soul from the very wrath of God, which in a word is the granting of our whole Question.] He that will follow you in your fancies and follies, shall have some what to do. That sorrow and fear for what causes soever are punishments of our first sin inflicted on Adam and all his posterity, whiles here they live, is news to none, but to you. Saint Austen saith, 
o August de verb●…domini secundum Iohann●…m Ser●…o. 42.  Sunt duo tortores animae, Timor & Dolour. There are two tormentors of the Soul, sorrow and fear. Now torment without sin the Soul should never have had. Fnding then 
p Mark. 14.  sorrow and 
p Mark. 14.  fear in the Soul of Christ by the witness of the Gospel, though the cause thereof be not expressed, I resolved that Christ tasted these, which were punishments of sin by their first institution, as well as other our infirmities of Soul and Body. What followeth hereupon? That 
q Defenc. pa. 64. li. 28.  these were proper punishments inflicted on Christ by God's very wrath.] Who saith so? You or I? They are your words in deed, but no way mine. It followeth, you say, evidently from my words.] As how? Christ was not free from SORROW and fear; and these were punishments of our first offence; ergo, what? Ergo, the whole Question is granted in a word.] Ergo fools might flee, but for want of wings. The Question is, whether Christ died the death of the Soul, or suffered the pain of the damned. You hear me say Christ sorrowed and feared; as also he hungered in the desert, and thirsted on the Cross, which likewise came into man's nature as punishments of sin; will it hence follow, that hunger and thirst are the pains of hell? No more do sorrow and fear infer the whole Question, except in a mad mood you will avouch, that no man can fear, or sorrow, unless he suffer the pains of the damned, and death of the Soul. [But Christ suffered these as a punishment of our sins, you will say.] And so did he those. For though every thing, which he suffered, did not yield satisfaction for our sins, because death was required to make the full payment thereof; yet every infirmity and misery, that he felt consequent to our condition, were recea●…ed in him as punishments for sin fastened to our nature and state.  

r Defenc. pa. 64. li. 30.  I fear you mean his holy affections, as devotion to God, and compassion to men.] Were there any sufferings in Christ, that were unholy? Would you have him afraid, that he was or should be rejected and condemned of God? Or sorrow for the loss of God's grace, and savour in himself? That were unholiness in deed, to be in any sort so affected, and without heinous blasphemy you can not suspect that of Christ. But his pain, you think was infinite.] Then was his patience and obedience the more religious and precious in God's sight, wheresoever he felt the pain, either in Soul, or in Body, or in both. And when you have said what you can, and devised what you will, except you will weaken Christ's faith, hope and love in God, which without sin can not be, you must leave fear and sorrow in him to be natural and holy affections, and no way defiled with our sin. The object or cause of Christ's fear is that you would speak of, if you could tell what to make of it; but you dare not depart from your covert of God's very wrath and proper punishment for sin, lest you should utter as many absurditics as syllables. That fear and sorrow than were affections in Christ, I think no man doubteth besides you; and that they were in him most holy, you dare not deny, least to folly you should join heresy; and so notwithstanding your fear what I mean; sorrow and fear in Christ were most holy affections, whatsoever the occasions of his fear and sorrow were. If they were affections common to Body and Soul, how then were they punishments proper to the soule.] I use not PROPER, as you do, for that which is peculiar to the Soul, and not imparted to the Body; for so no fear nor sorrow is proper to the Soul in this life; and least of all Christ's; whose Body no doubt was afflicted with the fear of his mind; which as you think astonished and overwhelmed all the powers of Christ's Soul, and senses of his Body; but I take proper for that, which first beginneth in the Soul, though it after offend the Body. Otherwise the Body feeleth nothing, which doth not affect the Soul, neither is there any fear or sorrow in the Soul, which is not impressed on the Body. The sorrow 
s 2. Cor. ●….  of this world worketh death, saith the Apostle, which it could not do but by changing and decaying the Body; and godly sorrow, for sin, though it make a deep impression in Soul and Body, yet the pardon of sin, and comfort of grace do more revive the spirits, than sorrow doth quench them; and so that hurteth not man's life, as worldly sorrow doth.  
But why cite I the Fathers, that Christ did not fear either death or hell?] Forsooth because you and your friends make that the cause of Christ's fear and Agony, though now you hide it under the name of God's proper wrath. And if it be an absurd, impudent, and impious assertion to say that Christ trembled or doubted for fear of hell, as due to him, or determined for him, what is it then to defend, that he did and must suffer the very pains of the damned and of hell, before we could be redeemed? If he did not fear it, how could he suffer it, since he was not ignorant what should befall him? A natural fear, you say, he had of death and hell.] A disliking and declining of hell Christ might have as well for himself, as for us, that were joined in one Body with him; but a doubtful fear, what should be the end of himself or his sufferings, he could not have. The weakness of man's nature might also justly tremble and shake at the might and power of God provoked with our sins, which were to be answered and ranfomed by his Body; but other fear Christ could have none, and these I trust be religious submissions, and not amazed confusions, such as you put in the Soul of Christ.  
You come now to your fortifying of your special reasons, not special for any more excellency in them, then in the rest, which you may safely swear; but for that they more specially touched the question, as you say, though you never offered to come necre it. To the words of Esay the Prophet by you cited, that Christ 
t Treat pag. 34.  bore our iniquities, and sustained our sorrows themselves, I answered shortly: the words made nothing to your purpose; the text did not express, whether Christ sustained all or some. What now reply you? 
u Defenc. pag. 65. l. 13.  I mean all and every whit, so far as possibility will admit.] Keep your meaning to make sawsigies: as I ask not after it, so I little regard it. How prove you the Prophet meant so? Not by his words; for they are not general: what other help you have to come by his meaning, I would gladly hear. 
x Ibid. li. 17.  The very text expresseth (so much) WITH GREAT EMPHASIS: Christ bore our sorrows themselves.] You show your skill, when you come to your proofs: for first this is no Emphasis; and were it, how prove you, that an Emphatical proposition is all one with a general? The words, if you did rightly translate them, are not, he bore our sorrows themselves; the affix cleaveth to the Verb and not to the Noun, but our sorrows he bore them. Where the pronoun (them) is a superfluous addition, as the best learned in the Hebrew tongue observe in the like; and not an emphasis, as you would have it. Foster in his rules before his Hebrew Lexicon, saith, the Hebrues often 
y .  put the Noun before, whose case they after repeat by a Pronoune affixed to the Verb: as in job. 3. verse. 6. That night, let darkness oppress it: and in the 90. Psalm, The days of our life, they are seventy. Pagnine likewise in his Hebrew Institutions teacheth, that 
z Pagnin●… Institut. Hebraic ●…4 a. 17  many things in the Scriptures are redundant (or superfluous) as touching the sense, which yet grace the speech: as in Genesis ca 1. verse. 30. Every creeping thing, in which is the breath of life in it: and so Exodus ca 25. verse. 29. Thou shalt make basons, with which to cover with them. Petrus Martinius in his Hebrew Grammar noteth, that 
a  Pleonasmus, which is a superfluous addition, is much used in Hebrew: as in the first Psalm; The wicked are as the chaff, WHICH the wind tosseth it. And junius; 
b  There is in the Hebrew tongue a pleonasmus (or superfluity) of the pronoun joined with the Verb: as jerem. 5. verse. 5. I will go, ay, to the great men. Cornelius' Bertrame in his table of things worthy to be observed, joined to Pagnines Hebrew Lexicon newly augmented by Mercer, Cevallere, and himself, saith, The 
c  Relative, and even the affix are often redundant (or superfluous) in Hebrew. Whereof the learned Reader may see many examples in the theme Bachar; as, the 
d .  city▪ which I have chosen it, and 
e .  David whom I have chosen him, and elsewhere, which I omit for brevities sake. S. Peter doth imitate that phrase in Greek, when he saith, 
f .  By whose (his) stripes you are healed. Our English tongue admitteth the same kind of speech: as if we should say; our days, we waste them in vanity; our bodies, we weaken them with intemperance; our foes, we flatter them; our friends, we neglect them; and such like: where the Pronoune following the Verbs, repeateth only the words, and directeth the cases that went before, as the Hebrew affix doth, but addeth no force unto them. Yet grant it were an emphasis; doth not an emphasis stand as well to a singular or particucular proposition, as to a general? My Redeemer, saith job, 
g job. 19  I myself shall see, and mine eyes shall behold, and none other. Here is a triple emphasis, and yet the proposition singular. Our soul, it is exceedingly filled with the mocks of the wealthy. Where 
〈◊〉. 123.  there are three more emphatical veheinencies, and yet no proof, the proposition should be general.  
This we conclude the rather, because the sense of pains and sorrows only was the ransom 
 ordained by God in Christ, that by them our sins should be satisfied.] This supposal is not true, and yet were it admitted, it concludeth not that which you undertook to 
.  prove. For there must be more in man's ransom, than the sense of pain and sorrow only: otherwise every man might have been a Redeemer as well as Christ. You exclude by your adding of ONLY, the chiefest weight and worth of our redemption, which was the dignity and innocency of the person that suffered. For as God's holiness was infinitely despighted, and displeased with our disobedience in Adam, and his justice thereby infinitely provoked; so in the satisfaction for sin his Holiness was to receive an infinite recompense, which was the obedience of his own Son; and his justice to find a sufficient bar to break off the extremity and perpetuity of vengeance due to our sins. Both these the Scriptures express in man's ransom, as well as the pains. 
k A●…. 20.  The Church of God, which he purchased with his own blood, saith Paul. Where the person of the Purchaser giveth full force to the price that was paid, since the blood of none but of him that was God and man, could perform so much. Again, in the very price itself, the innocency of the Sufferer is a part, as well as the patience. So Peter avoucheth: 
l .  You were redeemed with the precious blood of Christ, as o●… a Lamb undefiled and unspotted. It sufficeth not, that he was a Lamb, he must be unspotted and undefiled, before he could be accepted for our sins. Wherefore not the suffering alone, but the 
m Heb 9  offering himself without spot to God through the eternal spirit, purged our consciences from dead works. This you are not willing to hear of, who avouch Christ to be 
n ●…reat. fol. 42 li. 20.  sinful, defiled, hateful, and accursed by our sins; but I trust there are few, that will forget the doctrine of the Holy Ghost, that Christ must be 
o Hebr. 7.  holy, innocent, undefiled, and separate from sinners, (before his sacrifice could be accepted for us) to give ear to your vain, if not wicked illations. But admit, that suffering only were the ransom of our sins; what will follow? Ergo, Christ suffered all the very same punishments that were due to us, or which the damned do suffer? Who reasoneth thus, but he that is neither acquainted with truth nor reason? I speak not how blasphemous and impious your conclusion is, but I ask how it any way hangeth to your antecedent.  

p Defenc. pag. 65. li. 22.  What soever in this life might be painful, and was due to mankind generally for sin, and in it own nature was no sin, that Christ suffered wholly and altogether for us, even the same which else we should.] This lacketh a fair deal of your general and emphatical collection, which you would force out of Esay, as if Christ had borne (all) our sorrows themselves, that is, all the same which we should have borne. You of your own head make here three recantations of that universal proposition, which you go about to prove. And if your authority stretch so far, I hope I have as good right to put in S. Peter's limitation, that Christ 
q 1. Pet. 2.  bore our sins himself in his body on the tree: and S. john's; that Christ was 
r joh. 1.  full of grace and truth, of whose fullness we all have received: and S. Paul's; that Christ was 
s Rom. 4.  delivered for our sins (
t Mark. 14  into the hands of sinners) to do 
u Act. 4.  whatsoever the hand and counsel of God had before determined to be done. Put these exceptions to your general assertion, which have as good interest as any of yours, and better than some of yours, and infer what you can. Your emphasis will not do you a penny worth of good, nor me a farthing of hurt. For as the death of Christ's soul doth defile him with sin, and exclude him from God; so the true pains of hell can neither be suffered in this mortal life, nor at men's hands, nor leave in Christ any spark of grace or truth, which are absurdities and impieties enough to break the greatest beam that is in your building. But let us see how handsomely you contrive your exceptions. Whatsoever in this life might be painful, and was due to mankind generally for sin, all that and even the same Christ suffered wholly for us.] Due to mankind in this life for sin, are all and all sorts of corporal griefs and plagues, as blindness, dumbness, sickness, and such like defects and distempers of body and mind as natural and extreme folly, frenzy, lethargy, and many more. Did Christ suffer all and the very same in this life wholly and altogether, as you avouch he must? DUE perhaps you take for that which is appointed, and inflicted on all men generally for sin. Is no more due to any man for sin than he suffereth? dealeth God fully with every man according to his sins? This is doctrine false enough: but wrest words to your will, for that is your strength; was all that and the very same which Christ suffered determined and appointed for all men to suffer? were all men to be whipped, crowned with thorns, and hanged on a tree as he was? If you use to flap men in the mouths with such manifest falsities in stead of your holy verities, they will think you suffer somewhat that Christ never suffered, though you would endanger aswell his wits as his merits for the time of his agony.  
That which you conclude, is 
x Defenc. pag. 65. li. 25.  mine own plain confession (you say) pag. 138. 286.] The Reader by this time is so much used to your fittens and fancies, that he will trust neither your collections nor assertions upon my words. I utterly say no such thing, I spoke indefinitely: that 
y Conclus. pa. 1. 38  smart, pain and grief of body or mind, be it never so great, will commend the obedience and patience of Christ, so it have no sense of damnation, or separation from God. And in the next place, when you had objected, the ●…ead (Christ) must suffer what the members do; (where I hope you mean in this life, for the members of Christ suffer not the pains of hell after this life; I answered, 
z Conclus. pa. 138.  The punishment of sin which proceedeth (in this life) from the justice of God (upon the members of Christ) and is no sin, that Christ might and did bear, but in no wise those terrors and fears of conscience, which proceed from sin, and augment SIN, and sometimes light on the members of Christ for a season to humble them. What maketh either of these places for Christ's suffering the pains of hell? If you see so much in them, you see more than I did at the first uttering of them, or yet do upon better reviewing them. I did and do grant, that Christ suffered the same punishments which Gods justice inflictea on all mankind for sin, during the time of this life, and have no sin nor sinful adherents in them, as doubting, distrusting, and despairing have; if you urge no more, we shall soon agree. Where then is the death of the soul, which without sin can not lose her life in God? and where are the true pains of the damned, which are not inflicted on all mankind, though they were due to all; nor imposed on any during the time of this life, since this corruptible flesh and mortal condition of man is not capable of those violent and terrible judgements which God had reserved for another world, where body and life shall dure for ever in eternal torments?  

a Defenc. pag. 66. li. 3.  All these our due sorrows, and all this our sharpest deserved pain, even Gods own immediate hand smiting the soul for sin, (which far exceedeth and comprehendeth all other pain) Christ without any dispensation or qualification whatsoever endured for us.] If Esay had said so much, it would make somewhat for your matter; but since it hath no better warrant than you say, you show us how full you are of idle and vain conceits, and how ready rather to turn heaven, earth, and hell upside down, than to fail of your fancies. But to me and others that rest our faiths not on your sleights, but on the sacred Scriptures, you multiply monsters in all these your newest devised, and sharpest supposed pains from the immediate hand of God smiting the soul of Christ. That all pains here and in hell are ordained and strengthened by the power of God's hand, I make no doubt; but that in all temporal or eternal pains due to the soul for sin, God useth his immediate hand on earth and in hell, I wholly reject this as a fantastical error of yours, and give it no place neither in the soul of Christ, neither in the souls of the damned. We see how easy and usual it is for God, by the body to afflict the soul, and to make it feel the force and rage of every grief. He likewise maketh the soul afflict herself, as well with fear and sorrow, as with remembrance, intelligence, and conscience of her sins past, and pains to come. The same God is able with the same power to make the weakest creature torment and punish both souls and devils, since he giveth strength to men and angels; and taketh it from them, when pleaseth him. That therefore everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels, into which all the wicked shall be cast, is nothing but a secret smiting of the soul by the immediate hand of God, I avouch is a palpable error contrary to the plain words of the Scripture, and to the whole Church of Christ, as I have formerly showed. And that the soul of Christ was so smitten in his passion, is a bold and bare presumption of yours, lately broached to derive your newfound hell to the soul of Christ, without any truth or show of sacred Scripture. And yet all this being admitted, it will not prove the pains of hell, nor the proper wrath of God in the soul of Christ. For put the case, that Christ suffered as much pain in this life as was possible for man to suffer; so long as he suffered it patiently, willingly, with full assistance of grace, and assurance of God's favour and love toward him and his, it is evident this is not the pains of the damned, nor properly the wrath of God. So should all Martyrs and others of the godly, whose souls are wrested from their bodies with extreme and intolerable torments, be in the true pains of the damned, which is a falsehood flatly repugnant to the word and promises of God. And that a final separation from God, confusion, desperation, and eternal damnation shall torment and afflict the souls of the damned, no more than a positive pain doth the faithful in this life, not exceeding the strength of man, or ending this life with the sharpness thereof in hope and comfort of eternal bli●…le; this is such a brutish position putting no difference betwixt comfort and confusion, hope and despair, blessedness and cursedness, salvation and damnation, the favour and terror of God, nor giving any more ease nor joy to the one than to the other, that I think few men besides you will run on these rocks. First then, that God is not able to punish the soul severed from the body by means, but himself must be the immediate and only tormentor of souls in hell, this hath no truth in it. Next, that Christ's soul was thus tormented and pressed with the immediate hand of God, hath no ground besides the giddiness of your head. Lastly, if both those were received, yet was there great distance between the fear and sorrow of Christ suffering in perfect affiance, and expectance of eternal joy and honour from God; and the terrors, griefs and torments of the damned, rejected and condemned of God to perpetual and unsufferable pains; so that your conceits in this place are weak, false and wicked.  
The smiting of the Soul by God's immediate hand, far exceedeth and comprehendeth, as it were, all other pain; and that Christ suffered without any dispensation or qualification whatsoever.] You need no Qualification to hold as many absurdities, as your pen can heap together; you dispense with yourself. That your new hell, which of your own head you make to be the smiting of the Soul with God's immediate hand, far exceedeth all other pains; you speak the words, but where are the proofs and deeds? The true pains of hell, which God hath ordained and denounced in his word, far exceed the power and patience of men and Angels; neither can they be suffered in this mortal flesh, and feeble life of ours; which fainteth under extreme anguish, and parteth the Soul from the body by far lesser pains, than hell hath any. chrysostom saith of them truly, 
b Homil. 49. a●… Populum Antiochenum.  Name fire, sword, devouring beasts, and if any pain be more grievous (in this life) attamen ne umbra quidem sunt haec ad illa tormenta, And yet these are not a shadow to those torments. Now your new made hell, that so far exceedeth and comprehendeth all other pain (as you pretend,) not only Christ did suffer with quietness and patience, but the members of Christ, that are no more than men, and the wicked, that are the worst and the weakest of all men, in respect of inward strength, endure the same, as you affirm in this life. Yea, so terrible are your late devised pains and sufferings of God's wrath, which as you say 
c Treatis. pag. 77.  always accompany them that are separated from the grace and love of God, that they neither end the lives, nor waste the flesh, nor break the sleep of the wicked. This exceedeth, you say, and comprehendeth all other pain.] But the pains of hell indeed have an other manner of torment and terror in them, then to suffer men to eat and sleep. These be your mockeries of God's wrath, and not the hell which he threateneth. If it comprehend all other pains, that are mediate, and those as well privative, as positive; how is it then immediate? Can it both comprehend all pains that have means, and yet be without all means? But what may not you say, that without any dispensation take upon you to found a new hell, and subject the Soul of Christ unto it as a principal part of our Redemption?  

d Defenc. pag. 66. l. 8. & 10.  Thus jerom also expoundeth this very Text, against whom you may turn your vain and frivolous insultation for his indefinite speech, to whom it pertaineth in this case, as well as to me.] If you could prove, that Ierom intended a general conclusion, as you do, than were jeroms indefinite proposition somewhat too short to declare his meaning; but who saith that jerom meant so, besides yourself? jeroms proposition therefore to his purpose is sober, and sound; and yours overreaching the truth of jeroms Assertion, hath neither verity, nor sobriety in it. 
e Ibid. li. 18.  In learning and reason an indefinite proposition, is to be taken as universal in a necessary matter.] But if the matter be not plainly necessary, that the Assertion may be fully general; to conclude a general upon an indefinite, is inexcusable ignorance, and oftentimes intolerable madness. If it be simply necessary, then is it as true in all, as in one. But how cometh this to be a matter wholly necessary, that whosoever will redeem or deliver a prisoner, must suffer all things without exception, which the prisoner should? I trow, if that were true, few prisoners would be ransomed amongst men; and in Christ it is not only most untrue, but furious and heinous blasphemy, to say he must, or did suffer all the same, which was due to us. For so Christ must be excluded from all grace and glory, and subjecteth to everlasting confusion and damnation, as we should have been. And if you make this a matter simply necessary in Christ, before we could be redeemed, I know not what you may add to augment this frantic impiety. 
f Ibid. li. 21.  It is a necessary matter, you say, yet but 
f Ibid. li. 21.  so far as known possibility admitteth, and indeed no farther.] Well fare your learning, that in one and the same sentence avouch this to be necessary, and not necessary; and so general, and not general. These be the flowers of your best digested doctrine. But Sir, if the general Assertion be blasphemous, then is it no way necessary, except you have a qualification to make blasphemy a necessary matter. If the Assertion may not be general, lest it be heretical and worse, why labour you so earnestly against the words of the Text, to fasten the general not on jerom only, but on Esay also? Will you needs make the Prophet a blasphemer for company? But you will delay the blasphemy with a known possibility.] If there be known impossibilities to hinder this general Assertion, as indeed there be many, how cometh it to be a matter so necessary, as you make it? Be impossibilities general, and necessary with you? This is the first rule of reason and Art, that I heard come from you, since you entered this question; but if your judgement serve you no better to discern between matters necessary and unnecessary, I would wish you to keep the rest of your Logic for Loiterers hall. Did you think Sir Discourser, with a vain brag of a necessary matter to outface the Reader, where if you could prove it to be necessary, you need not fly for help to any rules of reason? Your Rule therefore is sensibly false in earthly Ransomming of prisoners; and much more false and impious in the Son of God, who would and might taste by his manhood the miseries of this life, but in no wise be partaker of our inward, or everlasting pollution, or confusion.  
Though you added (malediction) to jeroms words, yet that is you say, 
g Defenc. pag. 66. l. 31. & 28.  None other but an honest falsifying of your Author, to express his meaning; and a silly devise of mine to turn off jerom without an answer.] Your proof of jeroms meaning is as weak, as your addition to his words was false. The words cited by jerom immediately before, are these, the chastisement of our peace is upon him; and not as you untruly avouch, (the Apostles words) He was made a curse for us. That indeed goeth before, but before also go the misjudging, wounding, and hanging of Christ on the Crosse. Now the relative following, (QVOD enim) must either be referred to all that went before, and so not to malediction apart from the rest, or to that which went next before, which is the chastisement of our peace. And so either way you were over bold with your Author, to refer his words whether pleased you. And farther answer to jerom there needed none. For to no proof needed no answer. And yet what better answer could you have, then for jeroms meaning, since his words are not general, to have jeroms conclusion in that very place 
h Conclus. fo●…. 350 li. 4.  brought you, which best serveth to show jeroms intent? Of Christ's hanging on the Cross jerom speaketh, noting that to be a cursed kind of death out of the Apostle, which I am far from denying. So doth he of digging Christ's hands and feet out of the Psalm, and of the rest of Christ's wounds and stripes, by which we were healed, out of the Prophet, whom he expoundeth; All which Christ suffered for us, being in deed due to us for our sins. Leave out your falsifying of jeroms words and sense, that (whatsoever curse) was due to us for our sins, Christ suffered for us, and I see no cause why jeroms words should need any answer.  

i Defenc. pag. 66. li. 32.  That this place of Esaie, and the whole Doctrine, which I avouch, touching these sufferings of Christ, may be the better received, let us note that the public Doctrine appointed by Authority to be taught throughout England expresseth the same; Namely, Nowel's Catechism.] Since the Scriptures, which plentifully and plainly teach us the true price and means of our salvation, give no warrant of your new found Doctrine, and the whole Army of Ancient and learned Fathers, who could ill instruct the people committed to their charge, if they themselves were ignorant of the true meaning of their Creed and Catechism, never heard nor thought of your late devised Redemption by Christ's suffering the very pains of hell, and the same which the damned do suffer, without any dispensation or Qualification, for so it liketh you to speak; if you could produce more new writers of your mind, than you do or can, they must pardon me for not admitting any Doctrine touching our Redemption, but what I see grounded on the plain evidence of the Sacred Scriptures; and so received in the Church of Christ before our Age. I list not to devise or approve a new Salvation unknown till our time, and if any man be otherwise minded, he shall go alone for me. God grant me to be a member of that Church, which hath reverently received and faithfully believed the simplicity of the Scriptures touching our Redemption by the death and blood of Christ jesus. Howbeit I see many men speak diversly, that mean nothing less than your late found hell, inflicted by the immediate hand of God on the Soul of Christ. Where then you dreamt in your Treatise, (as you still do in your Defence,) that whosoever named the wrath of God in Christ's sufferings, or called his Cross a cursed kind of death, was wholly of your side; I did in few lines reprove that folly of yours, and since you quoted no special words neither out of Master Nowel's Catechism, nor out of the Bible appointed publicly to be read in the Churches of this Realm, nor out of the Book of Homilies, that were worth the standing on; there was no cause why I should waste time to hunt after your meaning. If you would have an answer, it was meet you made your Arguments, and pressed your Authorities, as well as you could; and than you should soon see what I said unto them. But as I then foretold, so you now perform; Your buzzing head no where findeth the wrath of God, or horror of judgement against our sin to be apprehended by Christ, but you straightway conclude all your conceits from the first to the last. These words when I read them in any man, offend not me, as they help not you, except you wrest them after your manner to hide under them your new found hell, and the rest of your presumptuous and irreligious humours. Begin with the Catechism, and see what choice you have made thence.  

k Defence pag. 66. l. 37.  There it is thus taught. He paid and suffered the pain due to us, and by this means delivered us from the same. With Christ as our surety God dealt as it were with extremity of law. Christ therefore suffered, and in suffering overcame death, the pain appointed by the everliving God for man's offence.] What of all this? What one word is here sounding towards the death of the soul, or the death of the damned after this life? The Catechism in the very same sentence expressly speaketh of the painful and reproachful death which the jews inflicted on Christ, the manner whereof is orderly described in the next answer before. These things (saith the Catechism) the jews did unto him cruelly, maliciously, and wickedly; but Christ willingly of his own accord suffered ALL THOSE THINGS (from the jews) to appease with this most sweet sacrifice his father offended with mankind, utque paenas nobis debitas dependeret & persolueret, atque nos ex illis hoc modo eximeret: and to pay and satisfy the punishments due to us, thereby to exempt us from them. Cum Christo quasi sponsore, pro nobis sic passo, Deus summo quasiiure egit. God dealt after a sort severely with Christ as with a surety, suffering thus for us; but to us, whose sins, deserved punishments, and due pains (transtulit in Christum) he transferred on Christ, God showed singular mercy and clemency. All this is plainly referred to the punishments and pains, which Christ suffered at the hands of the jews by the secret counsel and appointment of God, that thereby he might pacify the wrath of his Father, and deliver us from the shame, pain, and death due to our sins, which God transferred and removed from us to Christ, that he might suffer them, and we be freed both here, and hereafter for them. Wherein great favour and mercy were showed to us; and Christ as it were a Surety subjecteth for us after a sort to the rigour of the Law. What hurt is there in these words, if you leave haling and pulling them from their right sense? The Author of the Catechism warily forbeareth the general, which you seek after so greedily, and when he cometh to the places that might seem harsh, he qualifieth them with quasi, as it were, not meaning to press those phrases, as you do, to the uttermost. Wherefore he saith that Christ was, quasi sponsor, a kind of surety suffering for us, and that God dealt with him, Quasi summo iure, as it were with riger, in respect of the lenity showed to us. Which speeches if you poison them not with your bitter conceits, I mislike not, so long as they be stretched no further, then to, SIC passo pro nobis, Christ THUS suffering for us at the hands of the jews; to which the writer of the Catechism wisely restraineth his words of Christ's sufferings in that whole Section. The death therefore, which he saith Christ suffered as the punishment appointed by God for heinous offences, or for man's wickedness, and thereby conquered the devil, who had the rule of death; was the cruel and shameful death, which the jews put Christ to on the Cross, which was the death that God either allotted to all men for sin; or prescribed specially for grievous offences, as an accursed kind of death, even in this life, where Christ suffered, though everlasting death did ensue the wicked in the next world, from which Christ was free. Neither can the devil be said to be the ruler of the second death, if it be inflicted as you would have it, by the immediate hand of God, except you make the devil ruler and governor of God's immediate hand, which is notorious blasphemy.  
It is there also written, that Christ's 
l Defenc. pa. 67. li. 7.  will was to suffer all extremity for us, who had deserved all extremity, and all these things being taken upon him, he destroyed them all.] You slily slip your Author's words in the question prefixed, which is the cause of this answer, and lighting on a Latin phrase, which you scant understand, you pursue that to the pit of hell. The question proposed in the Catechism is this. Since Christ had power in himself to choose what kind of death he would, why would he rather be fastened to the Cross, then suffer any other kind of punishment? The answer is. Vltima omnia pati voluit pronobis, quia ultima omnia eramus commeriti. Christ would endure for us in all things the uttermost (which the jews could do unto him) because in all things we had deserved the uttermost. And that the phrase, ultima omnia, the uttermost in all things, is referred to the jews, to note the worst they could do unto Christ, appeareth by that which is added as a reason of those words. For the Cross (saith he) was of all others a detested and abhorred kind of death, which yet Christ would chiefly sustain (at the jews hands) for us, that he might receive on him the grievous curse, which our sins had fastened to us, and by this means deliver us from it. All despightes, all reproaches, and punishments (offered him by the jews) Christ counted light for our salvation, and endured to be contemned, and abjected (by them) as the basest (or vilest) of all men. So that the Catechism had no intent to say, that Christ willingly would suffer the worst that God could do unto him; that were defiance to God's power and justice, which was farthest from Christ's thought, and must be from the Catechizers' words, except you will have him blaspheme: but in deed our Saviour did submit himself to the worst and uttermost, that men could do unto him, which was the determinate counsel of God for the satisfaction of his justice, and redemption of our sins; and therefore Christ made choice of the Cross to yield up his life, that the jews might to the last breath load him with all manner of despightes, reproaches, and tortures, which they by Satan's instigation failed not to perform. Leave then your perverting of other men's words, and subverting of their meanings, and I see no one syllable yet cited by you out of the Catechism, that tendeth towards your new found hell, or the death of the damned to be suffered in Christ's soul.  
But Christ (you think) could deliver us from no more than he suffered for us.] You might have learned the contrary to that out of the Catechism; where you are plainly taught, that Christ's corporal and temporal wrongs, reproaches, and pains inflicted on him by the jews, did quit us from all spiritual & everlasting debts, deaths, fears and pains. 
m Catech smu●… Alexandri Newelli 〈◊〉 & grece edit●… Anno. 1573.  Christ in our name and place undertook to his Father to satisfy him for our sins, and with the most sweet sacrifice of his obedience, to appease his Father's wrath conceived against us for our obstinacy, and so to restore us to favour with God. And therefore Christ the most innocent Lamb of God was bound with cords to free us, who for our deserts were delivered captives to Satan, sin, and damnation: Christ, who was utterly without all fault, was accused, and condemned by the sentence of an earthly judge, that he might absolve us before the heavenly Tribunal, who were every way guilty and most worthy of damnation: Christ with his precious blood shed for us, did wash and cleanse the spots and filthiness of our sins: Lastly Christ with the reproaches, which he sustained most undeservedly, and with the most shameful, and most sharp death, which was inflicted on him, delivered us from the punishment, ignominy, and death everlasting, which we had most justly merited with our wicked offences: and so all our sins were buried in oblivion, and removed far from the sight of God by Christ. This doctrine if you could brook, you would not so much disable the sufferings of Christ at the hands of his persecutors, as you do; not so hastily commit the soul of Christ to the pains of the damned from the immediate hand of God, before you will acknowledge our redemption to be perfect by the cross and death of Christ: but as your manner is, you step by whole leaves that are against you, and stumble at a word, that happily may be wrested from his right sense; and that you think is strong enough to bear the weight of all those absurdities, if not impieties, which you would rear. 
n Defenc. pa. 67. li. 9  Mark also what doctrine the Law of this Realm consonantly publisheth and commandeth in the homilies of Christ's passion. The first homily maketh Christ's putting himself between God's deserved wrath and our sin, the extremest part of his passion.] You alleged the Catechism rather for your pleasure, than any profit to your cause; you do the like now with the book of Homilies. You cite but little thence, and that to little purpose. That Christ put himself between God's deserved wrath, and our sin, to appear the just displeasure of God kindled against us and to avert it from us, I know no man that maketh any doubt thereof; and I marvel to what end you allege it. For what needed a Redeemer, but to save us from the wrath of God provoked by our wickedness, and armed with infinite power to take vengeance of man's unrighteousness? Or how could Christ be a Mediator, if he did not stand between us and the dreadful anger of God irritated by our iniquities, to quench the same, and to keep us from everlasting destruction? But the Homily, you say, maketh that the extremest part of Christ's passion, which was a further feeling than the sense of bodily pain only. And therefore by the Homily he felt God's proper wrath spiritually which our sin deserved.] You no sooner hear the name of God's wrath, but you run to your old bias, and straightway pitch on your hell pains. There are no such words in all that Homily, as that Christ's putting himself between God's wrath and our sin, was the extremest part of his passion. God's wrath against man's sin, was indeed the cause of all that Christ suffered, and not the extremest part only of his sufferings, by which you would extenuate the rest, as not extreme enough, till that were added. But the Book of Homilies teacheth you no such Doctrine; that proposeth the death of Christ suffered in his Body on the Cross for the FULL and ONLY (satisfaction or) amends of all our sins. Hear the words, that the Reader may see what a counterfeit pretence you make of public Authority, as if it were consonant to your new conceited errors, when it plainly impugneth them. 
o The first Sermon of the Passion. pag. 5.  So pleasant was this Sacrifice, and oblation of his sons death, which he so obediently and innocently suffered: that God would take it for the ONLY and FULL AMENDS for all the sins of the world. No 
p Pa●…o post. pag. 6.  tongue surely is able to express the worthiness of this so precious a death. Yea 
q Ibidem.  there is none other thing that can be named under heaven to save our Souls, but THIS ONLY WORK of Christ's precious offering of his Body upon the Altar of the Crosse. The death of Christ's Body you think did not manifest the wrath of God against our sins; the death of the Soul and pains of hell must be added before the wrath of God will appear in Christ's Crosse.] So teach you; but the Book of Homilies teacheth the clean contrary. 
r The second Sermon of the Passion. pag. 9  Christ being the Son of God, and perfect God himself, who never committed sin, was compelled to come down from heaven, and to give his Body to be bruised and broken on the Cross for our sins. Was not this a manifest token of God's great wrath and displeasure towards sin, that he could be pacified by NO OTHER MEANS, but ONLY by the sweet and precious blood of his dear Son? Therefore in the Book of Homilies, as there is no mention, so is their no intention, that Christ suffered spiritually the proper wrath of God, which our sins deserved. These are your phrases and fancies added to the book of Homilies, which neither speaketh nor meaneth any such thing, as you idly infer.  

s Defenc. pag. 67. li. 20.  Again, Christ bore all our sins, sores and infirmities upon his own back; no pain did he refuse to suffer in his own body. But as he felt all this in his body, so he must feel the greatest part primarily and much more deeply in his soul: ergo he refused not to suffer all the pains of the wrath of God both in body and soul.] This kind of ergoing passeth mine understanding. To the first proposition taken out of the book of Homilies, that Christ bore all our sores and infirmities upon his own back, refusing no pain in his own body, to deliver us from everlasting pain, you put what pleaseth you, without any proof; and than you infer what you list, without any sequel of reason or truth. For how hangeth this gear together? Christ bore all our sores and infirmities in his own body, ergo he suffered all the pains of God's wrath both in body and soul. Are there none other pains of God's wrath, but the sores and infirmities of our bodies? And if Christ did suffer all bodily pain incident to men here on earth, doth it therefore follow, that he suffered all the pains both of body and soul, that God's wrath here and else where hath provided for sinners? If a man would set himself purposely to cross the book of homilies, I know not how he might do it more directly than you do, to conclude expressly the contrary to that which is there delivered. It is no marvel, that so many writers are of your side, as you say, when you can enlarge them and interlace them after this sort; but you shall do well to think, that your Reader now hearkeneth after the public doctrine of this Realm authorized by the laws thereof in the book of homilies, as you professed; and not after your secret conceits intercepting and perverting the truth there taught, by your pernicious and erroneous glozes.  
Christ, you say, 
t Defenc. pag. 67. li. 20.  must feel the greatest part of his bodily pains primarily in his soul.] Have you not brought us monsters enough in matters of faith, but you must hatch us more? Must bodily pains (for of those speaketh the book of homilies, as appeareth by the next words; Christ refused no pain in his own body; and the first words are; he bore all our sores and infirmities on his own back) must I say bodily pains be felt primarily in the soul? If you shift all sense to the soul, than the body beareth, that is, feeleth nothing; and so you refute the book of homilies, you follow it not. If you allow sense to the body, tell us I pray you how violence first offered to the body is primarily felt in the soul. It may be betwixt first in English, and primus in Latin, you have found some deep difference. The soul, you think, doth primarily consider of the pains of her body, that you mean by feeling.] Then leave you to the body a second consideration of his own pains; and so you give reason and memory to the body distinct from the soul, which well becometh a man of your wisdom. That Christ duly considered of the cause for which he suffered, and of the judge by whose appointment he suffered these things in his body from the jews, I have often said it, and you have often rejected it as not sufficient to satisfy the wrath of God against our sins; and therefore you every where urge the proper punishment, and just reward of sin due to us on the soul of Christ; and when you come to prove it, you rest on the religious consideration that Christ had of his sufferings, and call that the wrath of God; as if you might chop and change the wrath of God to your best liking, and never be constant in any thing. Howbeit, the question now is, what the public homilies teach the people to believe of the work of their salvation; and not how you can shift and shear words, to make them sort with your errors. Show therefore somewhat out of the book of Homilies established by the laws of this realm, that may clearly confirm, or concur with your doctrine, and sell us not the verdivyce of your own devices in stead of good wine allowed by public authority.  
Christ 
u Defenc. pag. 67. li 24.  took upon him the reward of our sins, the just reward of sin. But the same homily saith, the reward of our sin was the just wrath and indignation of God, the death both of body and soul. Therefore by the homily Christ took on him for us the just wrath and indignation of God, the death of the body and soul.] Your trade of juggling will but shame you, if you can shift hands no cleanlier, than here you do. Your first and second propositions here cited out of the Book of Homilies are so curtailed by you, that they seem nothing less than that they are in their right places. The writer of the Homilies having taught the people, that Christ 
x The second Sermon of the Passion.  came to save the house of Israel by giving his life for their sins, and that sin caused the only Son of God to be crucified in the flesh, and to suffer the most vile and slanderous death of the Cross; and consequently willed them to 
x The second Sermon of the Passion.  remember how grievously and cruelly Christ was handled of the jews for our sins, and to set before their eyes Christ crucified, with his body stretched on the Cross, his head crowned with sharp thorns, his hands and his feet pierced with nails, his heart opened with a spear, his flesh rend and torn with whips, his brows sweeting water and bloud●… by this stirreth up the hearers to the 
y The second Sermon of the Passion.  hatred of sin, that was so grievous in the sight of God, that he would not be pacified, but only with the blood of his own Son. And though there were a thousand 
z The second Sermon of the Passion.  examples in the Scripture showing how greatly God abhorred sin, yet this one is of more force than all the rest, that the Son of God was 
x The second Sermon of the Passion.  compelled to give his body to be bruised and broken on the Cross for our sins. After these premonitions follow your words, 
x The second Sermon of the Passion.  Christ hath taken upon him the just reward of sin, which was death, not the whole reward of sin, which is an utter exclusion from all grace and glory, and the eternal damnation of body and Soul in hell fire, but the death of his body bruised and broken on the Cross, by the cruel rage of the jews, which is particularly and plainly before described. Now the death of the body inflicted on all mankind for sin is the just, though not the full reward of sin; and by suffering that, Christ freed us from all condemnation of sin, which otherwise in us would have been everlasting. And this explication the same Homily addeth to the former words, which you cite, though you purposely suppress it. 
y The second Sermon of the Passion. pag. 5.  When all hope of righteousness was passed on our part, and we had nothing whereby we might quench God's burning wrath, and work the salvation of our Souls; Then, even than did the Son of God come down from heaven to be wounded for our sakes, to be reputed with the wicked, to be condemned unto death, to take upon him the reward of our sins, and to give his body to be broken on the Cross for our offences. Here are both the places, which you patch together; the one noting Death to be the just reward of sin, the other expressing what kind of death Christ suffered for us as the reward of our sin, even the breaking of his body on the Cross for our offences.  
In the second proposition you show more depraving of the public doctrine of this Realm. For where the second Homily saith in express words, that our 
z The second Sermon of the Passion. pag. ●…  Grandfather Adam, by breaking God's commandment in eating the Apple forbidden him in Paradise, purchased not only to himself, but also to his posterity for ever, the just wrath and indignation of God, who condemned both him and his to everlasting death both of body and Soul; you transfer this judgement from Adam to Christ, which the Homily doth not; and lest you should be taken tardy with open blasphemy, you leave out the word EVERLASTING, which is evident in the Homily, and upon those maimed and forged collections you infer, that by the Homily Christ took on him for us the death both of body and Soul.] Why say you not, Christ took upon him EVERLASTING death both of body and Soul, which was the just and due purchase (or wages) of our sin by the plain words of that Homily? You feared blasphemy, and therefore you chose rather to falsify the place, then to want some defence for your Doctrine. Christ you will say, died that death, which was the reward of our sin, by the Book of Homilies.] To bely public Authority, so grossly, in so great causes, is a quadruple iniquity. What death Christ died for our sins, is openly professed and even pictured before our eyes in this very Homily; the words I repeated in the Section before. What death was the wages of our sin, if the word everlasting did not fully declare, the same Homily in the same Section, whence your words are taken, doth twice most abundantly teach. 
a The second Homily of the Passion. li. 24.  Adam took upon him to eat, (of the tree forbidden) and in so doing he died the death, that is to say, he became mortal, he lost the favour of God, he was cast out of Paradise, he was no longer a Citizen of heaven, but a fire brand of hell, and a bondslave to the Devil. And six lines after. 
b Ibidem.  So that now neither Adam, nor any of his had any right, or interest at all in the kingdom of heaven: but were become plain Reprobates and castaways, being perpetually damned to the everlasting pains of hell fire. It would fairly fit your new Doctrine to defend that Christ was a Reprobate and a Castaway, yea a firebrand of hell, and a bondslave to the Devil, perpetually damned to the everlasting pains of hell fire. And though I be persuaded you detest these devilish impieties, and hellish blasphemies; yet you regard little your cause, or your conscience, which vouch in Print, that Christ suffered that reward of sin, which by the Book of Homilies was due to us; all those things by the same Book in the same place being due to us. You will shift of this matter, as if these things might be granted in substance, not in circumstance, and in our countenance, not in his. But such shifts are so shameful and sinful in this case, that I think your own friends will altogether mislike your flying to the Book of Homilies for the death of the Soul, or the just reward of sin in all mankind there mentioned, to be suffered in the Soul of Christ.  

c Treat. pa. 80. li. 33.  Also our great Bible appointed by Authority to be read in public Churches expressly saith as much] It is a poor pittance, when you find no help for your new made hell in the whole Text of the Bible, to run to the Printers additions set by the sides of the Book, who often annex things in the Margin for direction or explication, as they think good, which declare the Printers or Correctors, but not the Authors nor Translators mind. Your wits I trust be not so weak, but you can discern between the English translation of the Text commanded to be publicly read in the Church, and the Marginal notes added by others without any warrant of public Authority, for aught that I see. And therefore I take not myself, nor any man else, to be bound to those notes, farther than they evidently concur with the truth of the Text; though they may be sometimes profitable for the opening of hard places. That Christ 
d Luke. 22. vers. 24.  was in an Agony, the Evangelist affirmeth, and the English Translator hath done his duty in expressing so much; but what the cause was of that Agony, is beyond the Commission of a Translator to specify, since the Scripture concealeth it; and so public Authority, which appointed the English Translation to be openly read in the Church confirmeth not the Marginal appositions, which may not be read in the Church, though they may be received so far as they have manifest coherence with the Text, or consequence from the Text, in respect rather of their verity then Authority. For these notes at first were not affixed, and in sundry editions they have been altered, & increased as the Corrector liked, & even this note which you allege, somewhat differeth from the Genevian notes, whence this and the most of the rest were taken. The words of the Genevian edition upon this place are these: 
e Annotat. in cap. 22. Luc. vers. 44.  The word (Agony) signifieth that horror that Christ had conceived not only for fear of death, but of his Father's judgement and wrath against sin. The Printer of the great English Bible, or his Corrector, over against those words of the Text, he was in an Agony, setteth this observation in the Margin; 
f In Lu●…. cap. 22. vers. 44.  He felt the horror of God's wrath and judgement against sin. I refuse not those words as if they gainsaid the Doctrine, which I defend; but I see no farther ground in them then guess, when they aim at the cause of Christ's Agony, which the Scripture suppresseth.  
Howbeit let the words stand in their full strength; though by no means I acknowledge either Authentic or public Authority in them; they rather evert, then support your opinion. The uttermost here ascribed to Christ is HORROR, that is, a shaking or trembling fear of God's judgement and wrath against sin, which all the godly find in themselves, when they enter into the serious cogitation of God's holiness displeased, and his justice provoked with their sins; but this is far from the death or pains of the damned, except you make the vengeance of the Reprobate all one with the repentance of the faithful. This therefore is like the rest of your proofs, no way tending to your purpose. The fear of God's wrath against sin, which is common to all the godly in this life, though not at all times, hath no fellowship with the fear of the Reprobate, much less with the torments of the damned. The one is a religious and godly sorrow for sin, which worketh salvation, and yet agniseth with fear and trembling the justness and greatness of God's wrath against sin: the other is the beholding of the terrible and eternal destruction of Body and Soul prepared for them without all hope of ease or end. In Christ there might be a double cause of this horror conceived or felt by him, as affections are felt in the Nature of Man; the one touching us, the other touching himself. Christ might tremble and shake at the terror of God's judgement provided for us, which was everlasting damnation of Body and Soul in hell fire; and the more tenderly he loved us, the greater was his horror to see this hang over our heads; even as we naturally tremble to see the desperate dangers of our dearest friends present before our eyes. And if Paul said truly of himself, 
g 2. Cor. 5.  we knowing the terror of the Lord, meaning the terror of the Lords judgement against sin; how much more than did the Saviour of the world know the same? the clear beholding of which might justly work in him a manifest horror, to teach us to take heed of that terrible judgement, at the sight whereof for our sakes he did tremble in the days of his flesh. another cause of that horror might concern himself. For since the wrath and judgement of God against our sin was so terrible to behold, that Christ in his human nature trembled at it; how could it but raise an horror in him to know, that he must presently receive in his own Body the burden thereof, and make satisfaction therefore with his own smart? which how far it would pierce his patience, the weakness of our flesh in him might well fear and tremble, though his spirit were never so resolute and ready to endure the most, that man's nature in this life could sustain with obedience and confidence. So that either the sight of God's wrath against sin due to us, or the satisfaction of the same which Christ was to make, might urge his human nature to that fear and trembling for the time, which these notes observe; and yet neither of these come near the fear of the wicked, or pains of the damned. Besides that religious horror and fear is nothing less than the pains of hell inflicted on the Soul by the immediate hand of God, which is the device, that you seek to establish.  

h Defenc. pag. 67. li. 28.  Thus my Text of Scripture is also justified, that Christ gave himself the price of Redemption for us, WHICH ELSE WE SHOULD HAVE PAID.] If wresting, adding, and altering may be called justifying, then is your sense of that text justified indeed; otherwise there is nothing yet alleged, that any way approveth that meaning of the text which you would enforce. The price of our redemption Christ paid; not the 
Christ paid a price for us which we could not pay.  same, which else we should have paid, had we not been redeemed; (for so Christ must have suffered everlasting damnation of body and soul, which was the payment exacted of us) but he paid a PRICE for us, that more contented his displeased Father, than our everlasting destruction could have done. You dally therefore with the doubtfulness of the word PAID, which sometimes signifieth the enduring of punishment, sometimes the yielding of recompense. The Price of our sins which we should have paid, that is, the punishment of our sins, which we should have sustained, was eternal destruction of body and soul in hell fire; and other payment we could make none. This payment due to us, or punishment which we should have paid, the person of Christ could not suffer; it is most horrible blasphemy so to speak or think; but he paid a price for us, that is, a SATISFACTION and AMENDS for our sins, which by no means we were able to pay. And so much the word ANTILYTRON noteth, even a Price, Recompense, or Ransom in exchange of the punishment or imprisonment which the captive should suffer. This Price, you will say, was himself. I make no doubt, that Christ gave himself to die, but NOT TO BE DAMNED for our sins, as we should have been. Neither can the common custom of redeeming captives infer any more than the giving of a price for the Prisoner. And therefore I did justly ask, Who told you that the Scripture here speaketh after the common use of redeeming Captives taken in war.  
And where you answer, the 
i Defenc. pag. 67. l. 35.  nature of the word ANTILYTRON importeth so much, which is properly used in such cases; you vndestand neither the nature of the word, neither the manner of our redemption rightly. For first the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, whence Antilytron cometh, properly signifieth a mutual redemption of each other, as Aristotle 
k Arist. Eth. li. 9 ca 2.  observeth; and so we should redeem Christ, as he redeemed us. Wherefore the word is here improperly taken, and signifieth no more than LYTRON without composition. Again, the common use of redeeming Captives, is either to free Prisoner for Prisoner, or to take money for the ransom of liberty; neither of which took place in our redemption: and therefore the common custom of redeeming of men taken in war hath no likeness with the redeeming of the world, since God took no money for our ransom as men use to do for their Prisoners; but the life of his only Son for the liberty of his rebellious servants, which men use not to do. Neither did Christ offer a price proportioned to our value or ability, but far excelling our persons, and exceeding our power. It was therefore a very cold comparison to resemble the freeing of men's bodies for gold and silver (which Captains esteem more than they do Prisoners) to the redeeming of their souls by the precious blood of Christ; and such as S. Peter rejected before me in evident words: 
l 1. Pet. 1.  Ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb undefiled and unspotted. And for you or any man else to say, that Christ suffered no less, nor none other, than we should have suffered, or paid no more than we should have paid; is to subject the soul of Christ to our deserved confusion and condemnation, and to even our persons, who are wretched and sinful men, with his, who is the true and eternal son of God; either of which is a sensible defacing of his dignity, innocency, and obedience, wholly requisite to our redemption, and utterly impossible to our condition.  

m Defenc. pag. 67. li 38.  You seem to infer, that I forsooth do hold with your opinion, that Christ paid the price of our redemption (properly) to the devil, and not to God.] If you should leave belying and falsifying of other men's speeches, you should leave one of your chiefest defences. For when you can take no advantage of my words, you stick not to strain them to your b●…nt; and as though mistaking and wresting were not wrongs enough, you enlarge them and interlace them not only with things never intended by me, but with plain contrarieties to that which is contained in my words. To show how full and perfect our redemption is by the blood of Christ, in my sermons I say; 
n Serm pa. 60. & 61.  The blood of Christ doth redeem, cleanse, wash, justify and sanctify the elect; it doth pacify and propitiate the judge; it doth seal the covenant of mercy, grace, and glory, betwixt God and man; it doth conclude and bind the devil. And lest any man should mistake that I said, The price was so sufficient, that it did not only pacify and propitiate the judge, but conclude and bind the devil, that otherwise had a challenge to us as to the servants of sin and corruption; I added: 
o Serm. pa. 64. li. 30.  It was an injury to Christ for us to think his blood was shed to satisfy the devil, but Christ offered his blood as a sacrifice to God his Father, to satisfy the justice of God provoked with our sins; and yet Satan's extreme rage against the person of Christ (in conspiring and compassing his death with all contumely and cruelty) turned to his utter ruin: God raising again the Lord jesus from death, and giving him power to spoil the kingdom of the devil, in recompense of the wrong which he received at Satan's hand. Thus was the blood of Christ a price most sufficient for all the world; the voluntary offering whereof by Christ himself, was the sacrifice that appeased the wrath, satisfied the justice, and purchased the favour of God towards us; and the wrongful spilling whereof, which Christ with patience endured, did exclude the devil even by God's justice, from all the challenge, that otherwise he had unto us. Doth this make the p●…ce of our redemption, which was the blood of Christ, to be paid properly to the devil, and not to God? or rather clean contrary, that this price was willingly offered, and so properly paid to God for the satisfaction of his justice, and by no means yielded or paid to satisfy the devil; but the injurious shedding thereof by the procurement of Satan, did justly discharge all the members of Christ from the power and challenge of the devil, who afore possessed them by the rule of God's justice? And to this sense I did restrain the words of Ambrose, to make him accord with the rest of the Fathers; who with one voice confess, that God would not use power alone, but even justice to the devil, in taking man out of his hand; and therefore ordered the price of our redemption in such sort, that it should not only fully satisfy and pacify his own wrath by a willing and precious oblation, but justly exclude all the power and possession of darkness from the elect, by Satan's malicious and contumelious attempt against the person of the Son of God.  
Neither is this doctrine so strange as you would make it, but only to those that never waded farther than the mire of their own inventions. Irenaeus that ancient Father urgeth this as a r●…ason why Christ must be man as well as God; that the devil might be conquered by justice. Christ therefore, saith he, coupled and united man to God. 
p Ireneus. li. 3. ca●…. 20.  Si ●…nim homo non vi●…isset inimicum hominis, non just victus esset inimicus. For if a man had not vanquished the enemy of man, the enemy had not been justly vanquished. So Theodoret: When the Creator saw our nature of itself to join with that cruel Tyrant 
q Theodoret. de Providentia Sermo. 10.  (the devil) and to fall into the deep pit of wickedness, he wrought our salvation wisely and ius●…ly. For neither would ●…e use his POWER alone to free us, nor arm his MERCY alone against him that had 〈◊〉 man's 〈◊〉 under ser●…itude, le●…t he should exclaim of this merc●… as v●…iust; but God t●…oke a 〈◊〉 with clemency, and adorned with justice. The effect whereof, (for the whose discourse is somewhat long) we may perceive by the words which Theodoret ascribeth to the person of Christ: for thus he maketh Christ to speak to the devil: 
r Theodoretus Ibidem.  Because thou, who receivedst pour against sinners, 〈◊〉 touched my body, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of no sin forfeit thy power, and cease thy tyranny. I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all (〈◊〉) from death 〈◊〉 simply using the power of a Lord, but a righteous power. I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 death, I have suffered death; and not subi●…ct to death. I did admit 〈◊〉. No way guilt●…e, I was reckoned with the guilty; and being free from debt, I was numbered 〈◊〉. Sustaining therefore an unjust death, I dissolve the death that is deserved; and imprisoned wrongfully, I free them from prison that were justly detained. And lest you should say of him, as you do of Ambrose and Austen, that he doth but play with the figure, ●…e ●…airely preventeth that idle shift of yours in these words: 
s Ibidem.  Let no man think, that herein we (dally or) trifle; for by the sacred Gospels, and doctrines of the Apostles we are taught, that these things are so. Leo likewise not once or twice publicly teacheth that doctrine to the people: 
t Leo Sermo. 5. de passione D. m.  The just and merciful God did not so use the injury of his will, (those are his words) that to restore us, he would only show the power of his clemen●…ie, but because it was a consequent, that man committing sin should be the servant of sin. God so fitted the medicine to the sick, the pardon to the guilty, and red●…mption to the captures, that the just sentence of condemnation should be dissolved by t●…e just work of the 〈◊〉. For if only the Godhead should have opposed itself for (us) sinners, not so much reason as power should conquer the devil. The 
u Ibidem.  Son of God therefore admitted wicked hands to be laid on him, and what the rage of the persecutors offered with patient power he suffered. This was that great mystery of godliness, that Christ was ever loaden with injuries, which if he should have repelled with open power and manifest virtue, he should have exercised only his divine strength, but not regarded our cause, that were men. For in all things, which the madness of the people and Priests did reproachfully and 〈◊〉 unto him, our sins were wiped away, and our offences purged. The devil himself did not understand, that his cruelty against Christ should overthrow his own kingdom, WHO SHOULD NOT LOSE THE RIGHT OF HIS FIRST FRAUD, IF HE COULD ABSTAIN FROM THE LORDS BLOOD. But greedy with malice to hurt, whiles he rushe●…h on Christ, himself falleth; whiles he taketh, he is taken; and pursuing him that was mortal, he lighted on him that was the Saviour (of the world.) jesus Christ being 
x Leo Serm. 10. de passione Dom.  lifted up on the tree, returned death upon the Author of death, and strangled all the principalities and powers that were against him, by objecting his flesh that was possible, giving place in himself to the presumption of (our) ancient enemy, who raging against man's nature, that was subject unto him, durst there exact his debt, where he could find no sign of sin. Therefore the general and mortal handwriting, by which we were sold, was torn, and the contract of our captivity came into the power of the Redeemer. The person of the Son took●… upon him 
y Leo Sermo. 12. de passione Dom.  properly the reparation of mankind, that whose maker he was, he might be their restorer; so directing his counsel to effect, that to destroy the kingdom of the devil, he rather used the righteousness of reason, than the power of his might. For whiles the devil raged on him, whom he held by no law of sin, he lost the right of his wicked dominion. I repeat the more, to let the Reader see, that the Fathers in this case do not play with figures, as this Discourser dreameth, but they consonantly propose and urge with earnest and evident words a great point of Christian piety. Gregory teacheth the same lesson: 
z Gregorius mora●…m. ●…i. 3. cap. 11.  When Satan took Christ's body to crucify it, he lost Christ's elect from the right of his power. And by God's speech to Satan concerning job, Behold he is in thine hand, but save his life; he thus decla●…eth God's Commission to Satan touching Christ: 
a Ibidem.  T●…ke thou power against his body, and lose the right of thy wicked dominion over his ●…lect. Damascene also noteth, that one respect why Christ was made man, was to stop the devils murmuring, if God should have taken man out of his hands by the power of his Deity. 
b D●… ascen. Orthodox fidei li. 3. ●…ap. 18.  Christ was made man, saith he, that that which was conquered, might conquer. God was not unable, who is able to do all things by his almighty power and force, to take man from the Tyrant (that hel●… him;) but that would have been a cause of complaint to the Tyrant that had conquered man, if he were forced by God. Therefore God who pitied and loved us, willing to make man, that was fallen, the conqueror of Satan, became man; restoring the like by the like, that is, man by man. And in this, saith Damascene, appeareth 
c Ibidem. li. 3. cap. 1.  God's justice, that man being overthrown, he would have none other (besides man) to conquer the Tyrant, neither would he by violence take man from death, but whom death had of old brought into bond●…ge by sin, e●…en him would the gracious and righteous God make conquer again.  
What reason then have you to revel at Saint Augustine and Saint Ambrose in such sort as you do, that 
d Defenc. pag. 68 〈◊〉. 14.  their names are of no waitht to warrant such a Doctrine as those words (of theirs) pretend; Or what teach they different from the rest of the Fathers, if their words be rightly taken, and not wrested aside to your crooked concei●…s? That the blood of Christ was so sufficient a price for us, that not only the voluntary sacrificing thereof, thoroughly satisfied the displeased justice of God, and obtained remission of all our sins, but e●…en the wrongful shedding thereof by Satan's instigation wrought the subversion of Satan's power and right in all the ●…lect; (God by the rule of justice giving unto Christ's manhood the spoil of Satan's kingdom ●…or the patience which Christ showed whiles Satan by the mouths and hands of the wicked spoiled Christ's human nature of honour and life for the time) what danger is there in this to the Christian Faith, or what repugnancy to the sacred Scriptures? 
e Esa. ●…3.  THEREFORE WILL I give him his part in many things, (●…aith God of Christ's manhood) and he shall divide THE SPOIL of the mighty, (or with the mighty) because he powered forth his Soul unto death; this the Apostle sh●…weth was executed against the Devils themselves. Christ 
f Coloss ●….  spoiled Principalities and Powers, and made a show of th●…m openly, triumphing over them in his own Person. According as God threatened the Serpent upon his first deceiving the woman; 
g Genes. 3.  I will put enmity between thy se●…de and her se●…de: he shall bruise thine head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Where God expresseth plainly the Recompense, that the seed of the woman should have for suffering Satan to bruise his he●…le, even the bruising of the Serpent's head. For nothing is more equal with God, then to 
h Matth. 7.  rem●…ate the same measure to men, and Angels, that they m●…te to others. It was therefore a thing most just in the sight of God, as he subjecteth Man to Satan's power, when by sin he first conquered Man; so he subjecteth Satan to the will and power of Christ's manhood, when by righteousness Christ conquered the devil. And as Christ patiently endured to be wrongfully deprived of his life by the means and members of Satan, so in requital of that presumption, and injury, Christ powerfully and justly dep●…ed Satan of all his ●…ight and interest to the Elect, for whose sakes Christ gave his life. This excludeth not the voluntary service and sacrifice of Christ's obedience unto death, wherewith the justice of God was satisfied and appeased; but this showeth, that as God had chief regard of his own justice and mercy towards man in giving his own Son to be the pacification of his wrath, and propitiation of our sins, so he dealt justly with the devil in causing the spoiler to be spoiled, and for the wrongful and spiteful invasion, that Satan made against his Lord and Master, to lose all the Dominion and power, that otherwise he claimed over Christ's elect. And so the Price of our Redemption whatsoever you trifle to the contrary, did not only discharge the guilt of our sins, and our debt to God's justice by Christ's willing obedience to God even unto death, but the furious and injurious intermeddling of Satan therewith, so closeth his mouth, that he seeth and knoweth our deliverance and his destruction to be just.  

i Defenc. pa. 68 l. 15.  I am out of doubt that the Fathers do but play with figures; or if they mean indeed to teach such a Doctrine, we are to learn by their good leaves how to speak and think more wholesomely (than they do) out of the Scriptures.] Whether they play with figures or no, I refer it to the judgement of indifferent Readers, that will take the pains to peruse the places. It is a good sign they speak in earnest, when they double it, and triple it in their open Sermons and writings, and render the causes thereof pith●…ly and plentifully, as Theodoret and Leo do, and chiefly Saint Austen in 
k August. de Trinitate. li. 13. cap. 12. 13. 14. & 15.  four whole Chapters of his Book de Trinitate; whose learning and judgement though you set light by, because they sort not with your fancies, I confess I reverence, for that the whole Church of Christ hath done the same before me; and I see nothing in the word of God repugnant to their Doctrine truly conceived. But you have learned to speak more wholsomely as you think out of the Scriptures; I pray you then let us hear your wholesome speech.  

l Defence pag. 68 l. 6. & 10  I urge that the enemy must have a price for his Captive. I pray, who is that enemy which must be satisfied? the Devil? God forbid. God's justice only is that offended 
m Mat. 5. 25.  Enemy to whom our Ransom was paid, the Devil was but God's sla●…e and Executioner.] There is no man for aught that I know, which saith the Devil must be satisfied; it is your partial humour that leadeth you so to surmise; my Sermons profess it were an 
n Serm. pag. 64. li. 30.  Injury to Christ for us to think, his blood was shed to satisfy the Devil; but the enemy to Christ's elect. (which is the devil and not God) must be conquered and spoiled, though not satisfied: And that as S. Austen rightly observeth, God would have done first by justice, and then by power. 
o August. de Trinitate. li. 13. cap. 13.  Because the Devil by his perverseness was a desirer of power, and a forsaker and impugner of justice; and men did so much the more imitate him, how much the more neglecting or hating justice, they did study to be mighty; and were either inflamed with the getting, or delighted with the having thereof: It pleased God, that for the taking of Man out of the devils power, the devil should not be conquered by power, but by justice; and so men imitating Christ should seek to overcome the devil by justice, and not with power. 
p Ibidem. ca 14.  By him that died and was so mighty, to us that were mortal and altogether weak, both justice was commended and power promised. Of these twain, the one Christ performed dying, the other rising. For what is more just, then to come (willingly) to the death of the Cross for righteousness? And what is more mighty, then to rise from the dead, and ascend up to heaven with the same flesh, which was slain? First then by righteousness, and after by power Christ Conquered the devil. 
q Ibidem. ca 15  It is no hard matter to perceive the devil to be conquered (by power,) when Christ, who was slain by the devil, rose again: that is harder and deeper to be understood, that the devil was conquered, when he seemed to himself to be the Conqueror; to wit, when Christ was slain. For than Christ's blood, because it was his, that had no sin, was shed for the remission of our sins: that whom the devil justly detained and tied to the condition of death, as guilty of sin, those he might justly lose through Christ, whom being guilty of no sin, he unjustly put to death. With this justice was the Devil vanquished, and with this bond was the strong man bound, that his things should be taken from him; which were with him the vessels of wrath, and be turned to vessels of mercy.  
And after proof made out of the Scriptures, that we are translated from the power of darkness, and of the devil to the kingdom of God, and of his beloved, in who●… we have Redemption for remission of sins, then follow the words which you so highly challenge. 
r Ibidem. ca 1●….  In this Redemption the blood of Christ was given for us as a Price, QVO ACCEPTO which being taken, (that is wrongfully pursued and usurped, as the devils manner is to take things which are not his, and not willingly offered or lawfully received, as God did accept the same at the hands of his Son) the devil was not enriched, but fast tied, that we should be loosed from his bands. The blood of Christ patiently shed unto death was the Price of our Redemption by the witness of the whole Scriptures, which Christ obediently and voluntarily offered to his Father's will for the full remission of our sins, and our perfect reconciliation with God. This blood could not be justly shed by any, because it was innocent and holy. They must therefore be injust and wicked that should shed the righteous blood of that undefiled Lamb. Wherefore the secret counsel and justice of God delivered Christ being thereto willing, into the 
s Mark. 14  hands of sinners, and permitted him to the 
t Luke. 22.  power of darkness with all reproach, shame, and torture to take his life from him.  
This obedience and patience of the Redeemer, in suffering the rage and violence of Satan and his members, God so highly accepted and recompensed, that not only his wrath was appeased, and our sins remitted, but all power in heaven and earth, as well over Satan as over all his kingdom, was given unto the manhood of Christ, to take from the power and fear of the devil, whom Christ would, and to adjudge that cru●…ll and bloody tyrant with all his adherents to everlasting destruction. For though the Divine nature of Christ, in that he was the Son of God, were a rightful and powerful Lord over Satan and his whole kingdom (sin, death, and hell not excepted) to dispose thereof at his pleasure; yet the human nature of Christ had of itself no such right or prerogative, in respect it was a creature, and so lower and weaker than the condition of Angels, saving for the personal union thereof with the Godhead of Christ. And therefore as the wisdom of God thought it no match nor honour for the divine Majesty of Christ to spoil the devil, that was but a base and vile servant in comparison of his Almighty power; so the justice of God would not advance the manhood of Christ to the height of his kingdom to rule all things in heaven, earth, and hell, till he had humbled himself to the death of the Cross for remission of our sins, and received violent wrong from the devil in putting him to death. In revenge and recompense whereof, as all these fathers confess, God took just cause to make not the Divine nature, which had that right before and could not lose it, but man's nature, which Satan had by sin conquered and subjecteth to himself, to be in the person of Christ conqueror and Lord over Satan, and all his power, to take whom he would to make them vessels of mercy; and to reserve the rest as vessels of wrath unto the terrible judgement of Christ. Wherein these Fathers do not serve from the Pophets and Apostles meaning, howsoever they use different words; that Christ should 
u Esa. 53. v. 12.  divide the spoil of the mighty, because he powered out his Soul unto death; And that 
x Philip. 2.  therefore God highly exalted, and gave him a name, at which every knee boweth, in heaven, earth and hell, for that he was obedient unto the death of the Crosse.  
Neither doth Ambrose, when he speakerh of a Price required by the devil or yielded to the devil, mean any more than a CAUSE SUFFICIENT why the spoiling of Satan's kingdom was given unto the manhood of Christ, and all the power of darkness, sin, death and hell, put under his feet. For a Price doth not alway import an honourable condition, or a pleasing satisfaction, as it signifieth when it is referred to God; but as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greek, which is properly a Price, noteth either Reward, or Revenge; so doth pretium in Latin comprise both, and generally whatsoever is balanced one against the other, to be exchanged one with the other, is the price of each other. So that it is no dishonour to the blood of Christ to be so precious, that not only the voluntary offering thereof did fully satisfy the justice of God displeased with our sins, but that also the wrongful shedding thereof (which was necessarily to be committed to Satan and his members, as the only fit instruments for such an impiety) was a just occasion, why God in requital of that wrong, made the manhood of Christ the subduer and destroyer of Satan's kingdom. Not that the devil had any right or command over us, against or without the will of God; but that he was so blinded by the wonderful wisdom of God, in revenge of his subverting the first man, that he was made, by showing his malice against the manhood of Christ, an Actor in our Redemption, and the Author of his own subversion, whiles without his knowledge, and against his meaning, he was God's instrument for our salvation, and his own destruction.  
This you can not quietly brook, because you make the chiefest point of our Redemption to be the kill of Christ's Soul with God's immediate hand; and so far are you from confessing Christ to be unjustly slain as an innocent, that you defend him to be sinful, hateful, defiled with our sins, and hanged by the just sentence of the Law, and the devil to be only a minister and executioner of God's judgement against Christ. Yea your similitude, if you stand to it, of prisoners taken in war, and your ransom yielded to God as to an enemy for his captives, setteth jars if not wars between the first and second person in Trinity, by making God the Father an enemy both to the Redeemer and Prisoner. For among men, whose use and custom you press in this place, the detainer is always a professed enemy to the redeemer, since confederates do not use to take or detain each others subjects or servants, but open enemies. The Ransomer then, and the prisoner have one and the same enemy; and consequently by your resemblance, God is an enemy as well to Christ as to us. The proof which you bring, to show God to be an enemy to his elect out of the fifth of S. Matthew, is impertinent to the cause, and di●…erent from the truth. For besides that the new writers, as 
y In Matth. cap. 5.  Erasmus in his paraphrase, 
y In Matth. cap. 5.  Bucer, 
y In Matth. cap. 5.  Bullinger, 
y In Matth. cap. 5.  Musculus, 
y In Matth. cap. 5.  Caluine, 
y In Matth. cap. 5.  Gualterus in their commentaries upon this chapter; and the old, as 
z Tertulli●…nus de pati●…ntia.  Tertullian, 
y In Matth. cap. 5.  jerom, 
y In Matth. cap. 5.  chrysostom, Hilary, 
y In Matth. cap. 5.  Theophylact, 
y In Matth. cap. 5.  Euthymius and others, with one consent refer this admonition of Christ to men, that are Adversaries, 
a H●…lar. in Matth. ca 4.  judges, and jailors here in this life; which is wide from your purpose; your making of God to be an Adversary in that place, acknowledgeth a superior judge to God to whom the Adversary must by complaint, not by command deliver us; and your comparing the devil to an obedient minister of the Law, excuseth him from being a rebel to God, and an accuser of men. But if you would speak or think as the Scriptures lead, which you pretend, but not perform; you should find in them, though not in this precept, that the devil is by a special kind of notation, called our ENEMY, as indeed he is the ancient, eager, and continual supplanter and impugner of man, and that God to his elect is and ever was a gracious and loving father, when he was most displeased with their sins; and even then so careful and mindful of their salvation, that he gave them his own Son, when they were his Enemies to d●…e for them, and by that death to make satisfaction and purgation of all their sins; which was not the part or work of an Enemy how much soever his holiness then did, and still doth dislike their unrighteousness. And since the punishment of our sins was laid upon Christ, and we healed by his stripes; if therein God professed Enmity to his elect, and executed it all on Christ, the devil being but the jailor and Executioner, or as else where you say, an Instrument only, and by that parable not to be blamed, for doing no more, than he is commanded by the judge; your wholesome doctrine commendeth the devil as an obedient servant, and maketh God an Inferior, and yet an Enemy to the manhood of Christ. Which if you did not mean, you must temper your words and proofs better, and learn not so eagerly to reject every phrase in an ancient Father, that pleaseth not your palate, when yourself spoke and wrote so licentiously and dangerously.  
But 
b Defenc. pa. 68 l. 30. & 28.  I fit your similitude, you say, to your desire farther than yourself did express; because I say, the Ransomer is not bound to be Prisoner for his Redeemed, but may satisfy the enemy by money or otherwise.] You are a happy man, that every thing fitteth your desire. You positively teach, that Christ our Redeemer must suffer the self same pains of hell, which we should have suffered. The reason you yield for it, is a poor similitude drawn from the common use and custom of men in redeeming their captives taken in wars. I replied, that your similitude proveth no such thing, because amongst men the Ransomers need not, nor do not sustain the same servitude and imprisonment, which the captives do and must, if they be not redeemed. [Yet the whole price, you say, must be paid by the Ransomer, which the captive otherwise should.] You reason from the wills of men, which prefer money before captives, to the will of God, who regardeth no money; which kind of reasoning I reject as n●… way matching our redemption; and yet if it were admitted, exchanges, recompenses, and conclusions of peace, which are no way in the prisoners powers, are amongst men as usual as Ransoms. It is therefore no way needful by this similitude, that our Redeemer should suffer the self same pains, which we should have suffered. A recompense above our power, and so not possible to us, was easy to him, that so far exceeded our condition; and that by your own similitude might more than suffice for the prisoner. For though men will not take less than the worth of their Captives, as they conceive their abilities or likelihoodes of service, yet that doth not hinder the Son of God to give for us far more, than our value could, or can reach unto, because he had infinite riches of holiness, righteousness, and obedience in his power, which we have not. He might not therefore give less than we were worth, but more he might, and did give: not by suffering hell pains in a sharper sense & greater measure, than we can endure, which is your fancy; but because those things, which he suffered, were of infinite price in his person, which in ours would amount to no such rate.  
From the sorrows which Christ did bear for our sakes, you came in your second reason to the curse, which he tasted for our sins; and because the Apostle saith, Christ was 
c G●…lat. 3.  made a curse for us, in that he hanged on a tree to redeem us from the curse of the Law; you would thence conclude, that Christ suffered for us the very pains of hell, and the death of the soul, as part of that curse, which the Law denounceth to all sinners. You were answered by me, that before your conclusion would any way follow upon your premises, you must make your first proposition general, that the whole curse of the Law, and all the parts thereof were suffered by Christ. Now this general assertion, that Christ suffered the whole curse of the Law and every part thereof, was not only false, and far from the Apostles words, but so wicked and impious, that without horrible blasphemy it might not be affirmed of Christ. For the whole curse of the Law plainly compriseth in it excecation, induration, desperation, confusion, a final pri●…ation of all grace and glory, and everlasting damnation of body and soul to hell fire; none of which our Saviour could suffer. To this what now reply you? Christ suffered our 
d Defen●… p●…. 74. li. 〈◊〉.  whole curse only so far, as possibility of things could admit, that is, with those three limitations, which are before expressed.] You little think the discreet Reader smileth at your proud and foolish presumption, that in the Apostles name, and under the Apostles words would canonize your own pelting conceits, and then blow and sup with a breath, denying that which you affirm, and affirming that which you deny. For what have the Apostles words to do with your three limitations? And if there be no possibility to draw Paul's speech to the WHOLE CURSE of the Law, without apparent and palpable falsity and impiety; why strive you for the general, that you dare not stand to without three limitations, which prove the general not to be simply true? First then in steed of Paul's warrant, you obtrude your own, and imagine your naked speech to be an armed proof. Next you say Christ suffered the WHOLE CURSE of the Law, save three exceptions, which deny the whole; and so in effect you affirm, Christ suffered the whole curse of the law, and yet not the whole, but only so far as possibility could admit; that is in plain terms, or in plain truth, it was not possible Christ should suffer the WHOLE CURSE of the Law due to sinners, since by that suffering he could neither save us, nor be saved himself.  
This gap was so great, that you foresaw every man would eye it, and therefore you brack it up with an other bush even as good as the former. For in this wise you seek to prevent that objection. But you will say; [
e 〈◊〉. pa. 74 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  Thus we make it not the whole curse of the Law. Yes we call it rightly the whole curse, for as much as Christ suffered it in his whole manhood even in all the powers of his spirit, and soul, and body.] Here we see what your wisdom doth and saith; but what saith the Apostle? Did he speak or think as you do? His words we have far different from yours; now your proof of his meaning were worth the hearing. Christ, you say, suffered it in his whole manhood. What then? Ergo he suffered the whole curse? You must found a new University, where your Logic must get grace to proceed by itself without control: it is so repugnant to all rules known to us, that we can not so much as conceive it. For thus you reason. The whole manhood of Christ suffered the curse, that is some parts of the curse: Ergo Christ suffered the whole curse. As well you may reason; the whole man in all God's servants performeth some parts of the Law; ergo all the servants of God perform the whole law. You would be loath to be answered your debts, if you have any, with such accounts: for if a man did owe you ten pounds, and with all his heart and both his hands did bring you ten pence, your reason here will conclude, he hath paid you the whole, though that I think would scant content you, if you were a Creditor. You be nearly driven, when such shifts must serve you, or else be taken with a nonplus. What else is this but a clear confession, that Christ could not suffer the whole curse of the law, when you dare not otherwise defend it, but that the whole manhood of Christ suffered some parts of the curse? It was, you say, 
f Defenc. pa. 70. li. 3.  in nature and verity the true and proper curse of the Law, which Christ was made for us.] You be safe now you ●…e come to your accustomed anchor of PROPER and VERY: hold you fast there, and you may be sure no man shall hale you out of this harbour, till you list to tell what you mean by proper and very, which you will never do. But in the mean time how prove you, that Christ did suffer the whole curse of the Law due to us; which is a false and wicked assertion lewdly fathered by you upon the Apostles words? And if you recant that general proposition, what handfast hath your conclusion? For if you reason thus; Christ suffered some parts of the curse which the law threateneth for sin; ergo he suffered the true pains of hell; your Reader will assoon infer, ergo you have neither learning nor understanding.  

g Defenc. pa. 69. li. 15.  There is no colour to make the curse which Christ suffered for our sins, like to the curse which senseless creatures do sometimes bear for man's cause.] Having made so foul a shipwreck of your own cause, as to be forced to confess, that Christ did not suffer the whole curse of the Law, which before you stiffly affirmed; to recover some part of your losses, you spurn at my speeches, as having neither truth nor colour: but report them right and spare them not; which I doubt you will not do, because you make your entrance with so false a colour. For I no where make the curse which senseless creatures bear, like to the curse which Christ suffered for us. Let the pages which you cite, 262, 263, in God's name be seen; but speaking of God's curse against the sin of man, I said, that 
h Conclu●…. pa. 26●…. li. 33.  not only the bodies and souls of the wicked were cursed and consumed with plagues, resting in them and on them, but all that they took in hand, and all that belonged to them, was likewise accursed. And citing the 28. of Deuteronomie, wherein a Calendar of curses is denounced by the law against sinners, I added, that Chapter perused, would easily show, how 
i Ibidem. pag. 263. li. 14.  far the curse of God in this life pursueth sinners, besides the horrible torments of the next life kept in store for them. So that I did not there compare or liken the curse of God on senseless creatures, to the curse which Christ tasted for us, as your idle imagination apprehendeth; but I showed how far the curse of the Law extended, and thence inferred, that if Christ did not suffer all the things there mentioned, he did not suffer all the parts of God's curse in this life; 
k Ibidem. pag. 263. li. 22.  besides the grand curse, that closeth up all, and continueth for ever; Depart from me ye CURSED into everlasting fire. You close your eyes against the force of my reason, which is evident, and pry for that which is not there; and when you find it not, you patch out this point with plain untruth, as if I made Christ and the senseless creatures like in the curses which they suffered.  

l Defenc. pa. 69. li. 20.  You make a reason to prove that hanging on a tree mentioned in Moses, is not all one with this curse of the Law in Paul. Neither did I, nor do I say, that it was all one. This I said and still say, they were both of one and the same nature.] You take great pride in pouncing of proper speeches, wherein you would show your wit by wresting them to what please you. A reason I made, which for aught I see, you do not understand, howsoever you play your part with my words, which is neither to confute them, nor conceive them rightly; but all is one with you, so you say somewhat, you care not how unlound it be. I observed in my 
m Pa●…. 273. li. 24 & 2●….  Conclusion, that S. Paul in his Epistle to the Galatians, cap. ●…. alleged two kinds of curses out of Moses; the one pertaining to the committing sin; the other to the suffering punishment for sin. 
n Gal 3. v. 10. Deut. 27.  Accursed is every one that abideth not in all things written in the book of the Law TO DO THEM. Here is the curse of doing evil, to which all men are subject immediately upon the fact, not 
A double cu●…se of sin.  ten or twenty years after, when happily God ariseth to visit their sins, and therefore this importeth not only a desert of future vengeance, but the present detestation which God hath both of the deed which is evil, and of the doer who is wicked. another kind of curse the Apostle noteth out of Moses, which is to hang on a tree; 
o Deuter. 21.  Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. here is a curse in suffering evil, whereof the former is the cause: for by God's law no man should suffer evil, but he that doth evil. You in a jollity to advantage your cause, would needs pronounce, 
p Treati●…. pa●…. 35. li. 18.  it were vain and senseless to think the Apostle here spoke of two several kinds of curses; taxing in your huff not only chrysostom, who expressly teacheth, it was another curse, and not the same; but even the Truth itself to be vain and senseless, which evidently convinceth the one to be in nature very much different from the other. For the detestation which God hath of sin assoon as it is committed, whereby he rejecteth the deed as repugnant to his holiness, and hateth the doer even before punishment, is a plain distinct thing from the vengeance that is consequent and agreeable to God's justice. Much more than doth it differ from the judicial punishments of men, whereto Moses pointeth when he speaketh of hanging, which though they have a dependence upon God's will and law, so far as they follow the same, yet must they differ as much as the persons, punishments and powers of God and man do. Cursed, saith Moses, is every one that abideth not in all things written in the book of the Law. This curse is present upon each sin, and general to all the wicked in the midst of their greatest prosperity and security. The punishment due to sin is not so; that is deferred till God see his time; and then most dreadful, when men can not commit new sins, as after this life. Wherefore as all creatures revenge man's sin, and yet are not all of one nature, though in that service to God they al●… agree; so the plagues and curses of sin be not of one nature, notwithstanding they be powered on men to punish their offences.  

q Defenc. pag. 69. li. 24.  I mean they are both of one and the same Nature, that is, true and proper curses of God. Well crowed yet before your courage come down. Shall all things that proceed from one cause, or that have one general wherein they agree, be all of one and the same nature? Then men and mice be of the same nature, for they are both living creatures. Then angels and andierns, stars and straws, and all things created, have the same nature, because they are all the works of God. Then vices and virtues, and all contraries be of one and the same nature, in as much as they are inherent in one subject, and destruent each to other. And to go no farther than your own example; then hunger and hell fire are both of the same nature, because they both are true and proper curses of God upon the wicked. Be they great or little, you will say, they are all punishments.] So the rest are all the works of God's hands, and yet were it mad-merie Divinity to say they are all of one and the same nature. 
r Deut. 28.  The fruit of the body, of the 
r Deut. 28.  ground of 
r Deut. 28.  cattle, 
r Deut. 28.  kine and 
r Deut. 28.  sheep, are the blessings of God, and promised to the observers of his LAw; and yet I trust they be not of one and the same nature with the joys of heaven; though little and great, they be promises and rewards of obedience.  

s Defenc. pag. 69. li. 25.  One was the whole, the other a part; but both of them the true and proper curses of God.] The one is the cause, the other is the consequent or effect, but not a necessary, much less an essential part of the other. For a man may be truly accursed, and yet not hanged; as also he may be justly hanged, and yet not truly or properly accursed of God. The penitent thief on the Cross came deservedly to his death, as himself 
u Luk. 23. v. 41.  confessed, and yet was not thereby truly accursed, since he was that day received into Paradise. His death was an accursed kind of death, as also Christ's was, though the one did bless, and the other was blessed, even under that punishment, which Christ did willingly and the thief patiently suffer.  

x Defenc. pag. 69. li. 27.  Paul saith not as you affirm, that Christ was made that curse, only, that judicial curse, whereof only Moses speaketh.] Much less doth Paul say, as you teach, that Christ suffered the whole proper curse of the law. I measure Paul's meaning by his proof, you extend it to your fancy. So that, as I say, Paul proveth that he meaneth; as you say, Paul meaneth that he proveth not. Which of our constructions cometh nearest the Apostles mind, the Reader will soon perceive.  

y Defenc. pag. 69. li. 31.  Paul handling before generally Gods curse and the punishment of the Law against sin, and showing we are redeemed from it by Christ's being made the same for us, he confirmeth it by applying Moses judicial punishment against certain transgressors, being it seemeth a figure of Christ herein.] If you may add what fancies and falsities you list to the Apostles words, you will make at length some show of proof, if not from Paul's text, yet out of your own trifles. There is not one true word in all this Preface of yours to Paul's proof: for neither doth the Apostle in that place handle generally the punishment of the Law against sin, nor show, that Christ was made the same for us; neither did Moses appoint (hanging) by any judicial Law against transgressors, neither were o●…enders so punished, a figure of Christ herein. Paul in that place handleth the righteousness of faith in Christ, as bringing the blessing of Abraham, and freeing from sin, which the law convinced and accursed. The law threateneth a curse upon every breach thereof, but it inflicteth not actual punishment upon every sinner. And therefore the curse of the law in Paul's first words is either the DETESTATION, which God hath of sin and sinners, whom in time appointed he meaneth everlastingly to destroy; or the OBLIGATION to temporal and eternal evil, which sin hath in it. Neither of which Christ was made for us, since he tasted not the same, but another kind of curse, which was the temporal punishment of sin by the hands of men; and by that obedience to the will and counsel of God, he freed us from the guilt and wages of sin, which the law denounced. To note the differences of those two curses, the Apostle putteth the Article to the first for the more vehemency, and not to the second, saying: 
y Galat. 3.  Christ redeemed us from that curse of the law, being made a curse for us. The curse then or punishment of sin in the person of Christ, was hanging on a tree: to which Moses by his judicial law adjudged no man. 
z Deut. 17.  Worshippers of other Gods, 
a Leuit. 24.  blasphemers, 
b Numb. 15.  breakers of the Sabbath, 
c Deut. 21.  disobeyers of parents, and 
d 22.  Adulterers were to be stoned to death by the law of Moses. 
e Gene. 9  
e Numb. 25.  Murderers were to lose blood for blood, and 
f Deut. 19  false witnesses to suffer that they meant to others, whether it were eye for eye, hand for hand, or life for life. But by no judicial law, that I read, did Moses appoint any transgressors to be hanged. By the express commandment of God, who is above the law, Moses took the chief of the people that coupled themselves with Baal Peor, and 
g Num. 25. vers. 4.  hanged them up before the Lord against the Sun. And joshua used the same kind of death in some that were 
h josh. 8. & 10.  strangers, and not Israelites: otherwise Moses never commanded, but only permitted the Magistrate to hang transgressors; yet so, that 
i Deut. 21.  the body should not remain all night upon the tree, but be buried the same day, because the curse of God was (executed) on him, that was hanged. So that God not appointing any man by his law to be hanged, but leaving that liberty to the Magistrate so to revenge malefactors, where the law did not specify their punishment, they could be no figures of Christ; as well in respect they were wicked, that must be so used, who were not fit to be figures of that innocent & undefiled Lamb, as also that men had no power to erect figures of Christ's death & passion, but must leave that to God to represent the sufferings of his Son as he saw cause.  

k Defenc. pag. 69. li. 36.  They that were hanged by the just sentence of the Law, they were herein accursed, that is they herein sustained the laws true and deserved punishment.] But if they were INNOCENTS oppressed by unrighteous judgement, which is no news among men, as we see by the death of our Saviour; or if they were PENITENTS, though their punishment were never so deserved, neither of these could be truly accursed before God, & yet might be hanged, and so subjecteth to the corporal curse of the Law. For though Moses had no meaning to have men unjustly hanged, yet had he less purpose to pronounce them damned, that died for their sins, if they repented: and therefore he commmandeth the bodies to be buried the same day, because the Curse, that is, the Rigour and Revenge of the Law was executed on them; and consequently Moses extendeth not this curse farther than this life; which maketh nothing to the pains or perpetual curse of the damned. And here the Reader may plainly perceive you to sink in the sands of your own subtleties: for here you confess, that deserved hanging is a TRUE CURSE and PUNISHMENT, notwithstanding, if the guilty repent, as the Thief did on the Cross; I hope you will leave him the child of God's mercy, whom Christ received into Paradise. And consequently by your own confession, the pains and afflictions of this life, when they are deserved, are curses and true punishments of sin to God's children, though their souls be blessed by their submission and conversion unto God. Which overthroweth all, that you formerly have said touching the troubles and vexations of this life, and that you presently mean to conclude of Moses curse applied to Christ.  

l Defenc. pag. 70. l. 1.  By applying this text of Moses in this sense, and in this respect to Christ, it is well confirmed to be in nature and verity the true and proper curse of the Law, which Christ was made for us: for such also in deed was the nature of that judicial curse of Moses.] Moses we see had no meaning to make their souls accursed, whose bodies were hanged on the tree by the just judgement of the Magistrate, if the malefactors truly repent their wicked offences. How much less than meant he to subject the Son of God to the internal or eternal curse of the Law, for that he was unjustly and wrongfully hanged on a tree by the malice and spite of his Enemies. And yet in both as well penitent as innocent, hanging is called a curse, that is, a true and corporal punishment appointed by God for sin, though man's error inflict it on innocents, or true repentance abolish the rest, that would follow after this life, if God were not reconciled unto us. In the wicked then, which persist in their mischievous purposes without repentance, your reason taketh place, that hanging to them is a part of that true and terrible curse, the whole whereof shall be executed on them for their sins; but in repentants it is stark false, and in Christ of whom this question riseth it is irreligious and impious to say, that he suffered the whole curse of the Law provided for sin, or the death of the soul and of the damned, which is properly due to sinners.  

m Defenc. pag. 70. li 10.  Now understand chrysostom thus, as we before have distinguished the punishment of Christ and of the damned, and then we differ not.] Suppose chrysostom to teach falsely, and talk absurdly as you do; and than you may soon bring him to wear your badge; but leave him at liberty to tell his own tale, and he is far enough from your follies. 
n Ib. 〈◊〉. 12.  He saith they were d●…erse curses in Christ and in the damned, to signify diverse manners of one and the same curse in Nature.] He speaketh not of the damned at all, he speaketh of the whole people of the jews, which were under the curse of the Law for sin, till they were thence delivered by Christ, which the damned never were, nor shall be. His words are: 
o Chrysost. in 3. cap epist. ad Galat.  The people were in danger of another curse, which saith, Cursed is every one which abideth not in the things written in the book of the Law. For not one of them had observed the whole Law. Christ then since he was not subject to the curse of transgression, admitted this curse (to hang on the Cross) in steed of that, to lose the people from their curse. chrysostom truly, learnedly, and consonantly to the rest of the ancient Fathers, distinguisheth two kinds of EVILS or CURSES incident to men, which are sin, and the punishment of sin. The one is an unjust action pleasing man, but displeasing God: the other is a just passion pleasing God, but displeasing man. 
p Tertull. contra Marcion●…m. lib. 2.  Mala dicuntur, & Delicta & Supplicia. The OFFENCE and the REVENGE are both called ●…uils, saith Tertullian. 
q August. contra ●…tum.  Duo sunt genera malorum, peccatum, & poena peccati: there are two sorts of Evils, saith Austen, Sin, and the punishment of sin. For 
r August. contra A●…mantum c●…p. 26.  by God's providence ruling all things, (as) man doth the evil, which he will; (so) he suffereth the Evil which he will not. Then sin is not only evil before it be punished, but a greater evil, than the punishment is; since it is an evil in his own nature repugnant to the righteousness of God. Now as God is all good, and therefore all blessed; so sin forsaking God, falleth from goodness, and so from blessedness; and is consequently more accursed with God than punishment is, and aught so to be with men, if they be rightly advised, as being the cause and continuance of their punishment. For accursed signifieth as well detested and deprived of blessedness, as subjecteth to misery, or devoted to destruction. So that sin in itself is a curse with God, that is hated and detested of God, and depriving man of all communion and participation with the fountain of blessedness, though no punishment did follow. Yet because men would with neglect and desp●…ght of God, abide and rejoice in their wickedness, if sense of grie●…e and pain did not force them to feel thei●… wretchedness; therefore the wisdom and justice of God pursueth such, as dwell and delight in their sins, with sharp and bitte●… plagues, that loc●…ing on their misery, they may timely repent, or eternally lament their obstinacy.  
To these two kinds of curses Chrysostom's words and proofs do lead. The whole people were not damned, as you devoutly d●…eame, but they had sinned, and so were subjecteth to the danger of God's displeasure fo●… sin, and of his indignation against sin. From this Christ was free, for he did not sin, 〈◊〉 was guile found in his m●…uth, as Chrysostom concludeth out of the Scriptures. Since than Christ was 
s Chrysost. in ●…. ca ep●…st. ad Galat●….  not subject to the curse of Transgression, he admitted ●…other Curse, eu●…n the punishment of sin, which is a curse also for sin, though of an other Nature, than the committing of sin; by one to dissolve the othe●…; that is, by his own pain to abolish the guilt of our sin. Chrysostom's wo●…ds are as pl●…ne as his proofs: 
t Chrysost. i●…id.  The curse of transgressing was another curse, and not the 〈◊〉 which Christ suffered. Yea Christ might not be subjecteth to that curse, to which the people were for transgressing the law, but changed that for another, and so loos●…d their curse. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; another, and not the same, be as forci●…le wo●…ds to show different natures and persons, as any the Greek tongue hath; and your shift of di●…erse degrees in the same nature, is a childish toy, since much and little, like and unlike s●…ew divers degrees or measures in one nature, but another, and not the same thing, directly noteth the substance or nature to be divers.  

u Defenc. pag. 70. ●…. 20.  Austen on whom you triumph, is stretched beyond his meaning, he dea●…eth against a Mainich●…e, who denied that Christ had true human flesh. Now he proveth, that Christ truly died, because the Apostle saith he was made a curse for us, in that he hanged on a Tree. I have cause to content myself, that so lea●…ned and religious a Father, as Saint Augustine was, & so highly reverenced in the Church of God, did more than twelve hundred years since, in his conflicts with Heretics refute the greatest part of your positions, as repugnant to the faith of Christ, and the soundness of the Sacred Scriptures. And I think few men so foolish as in the grounds of our Redemption and salvation by Christ to reject the Doctrine, which he taught, as false; and receive your scambling conceits as true. And in my judgement you were best to take heed, lest if the resolutions, which Saint Austen and other Catholic Fathers made against Heretics, disprove your new found faith, you be taken tardy with bringing Baggage into the Church of Christ, long since condemned and banished from the Creed of all Christians. What Saint Austen proveth; you are no fit reporter, except you did read more attentively, and judge more sincerely. For did you ever peruse the words  
wrong course in so wise a Father, if he meant purposely to prove against the Manichees that Christ truly died for us, and not in show only as they supposed, to overskip all the Testimonies and circumstances of Christ's true death recorded in the Scriptures, as his 
Matth. 2●….  
c Lu●… 23.  giving up the Ghost, pilate's 
d Ma●…k. 1●…●…. 44. 45.  examining, and the Centurions 
d Ma●…k. 1●…●…. 44. 45.  confessing the truth thereof, as also the Soldiers 
e Io●…. 19 v. 33.  perceiving him already dead, and so not breaking his l●…gges, but piercing his side with a spear, and the* 
c Lu●… 23.  gazing and 
〈◊〉. 〈◊〉.  watching of his ●…nemies, and of the whole multitude over him to see him die, as likewise his burial by his own followers, the sealing of his tomb, and his lying three dai●…s in the grave; to omit I say all these things with silence, and to produce a word, which the Manichees rejected as odious and injurious to Christ, and the Christians defended none otherwise then as common to all men, that die, both good and bad; were no small oversight in so learned a writer. But this is a ●…ite of yours to shift of the truth of his answer, it is no part of his meaning. He showeth against the Manichees, and likewise against you, since you defend the Contrary, that the death of the Body is in all men the punishment of sin, and that this death INFLICTED ON MAN'S NATURE for sin, which is the MORTALITY OF OUR FLESH, by the Scriptures is called a Sin, and a Curse even in Christ; not that Christ was properly and truly accursed with God, as transgressors are, which is your erroneous assertion; but that he submitted himself to receive the punishment of sin in his own person by the death of his Body, which was common to him with all men.  
If the former words of Saint Austen were not plain enough, he hath plainer. 
f August. contra Faust. ●…i. 14. cap. 7.  If thou deny Christ was accursed, deny Christ was dead. If thou deny he was dead, now ●…ightest thou not against Moses, but against the Apostles. If thou confess him to have been dead, confess that he took the punishment of our sin without sin. Now when thou hearest the punishment of sin, believe it came either from (Gods) blessing or cursing. If the punishment of sin came from blessing, wish always to be under the punishment. But if thou desire to be thence delivered; believe, that by the just judgement of God the punishment of sin came from the curse. Confess then that Christ took a Curse for us, when thou confessest him to have been dead for us; 
g Ibidem.  Nec aliud significare voluisse Mosen, cum diceret, maledictus omnis qui in ligno pepend●…rit, nisi, mortalis omnis, & moriens omnis, qui in ligno pependerit; and that Moses had none other meaning, when he said, Accursed is every one that hangeth on a Tree, then to say, every one that hangeth on a Tree, is Mortal and dieth. He might hau●… said, Accursed is every Mortal Man, or accursed is every one that dieth. How think you, would Austen prove that Christ truly died, because he was truly accursed, or that Christ took upon him a Curse, because he took upon him the death of the Body, which is the punishment of sin in all mortal men, and so proceeded from the curse whereunto all men for sin were subject? He doth not defend the Apostle by Moses, but he expoundeth Moses by the Apostle, and so resolveth in plain words, that Moses had none other meaning, when he said, accursed is every one that hangeth on a Tree, then if he had said, accursed is every mortal man, because death came first on all men as a Curse for sin. You acknowledge not the death, which all men die, to be a punishment or Curse for sin. But all the wit you have, will not answer Saint Austin's reasons. For the death of the Body, which is common to all mortal men, must of force be a blessing or a Cursing. If it be a blessing, why do we believe, or hope to be free from a blessing? but if we detest continuance under it, and desire deliverance from it, then certainly the death of the Body in all men, even in the Saints of God, was and still is a punishment and Curse of Sin, till Christ raise us from it. another reason Saint Austen urgeth to the same effect, which is this. 
h August. ead●…m. cap. 6.  Unless God had hated sin, and our Death, he would not have sent his son to undertake, and abolish the same. What marvel then, if that be accursed to God, which God hateth? God, that is himself all life, and gave us life as his blessing in this world, must needs hate death, which is privation of life, as repugnant to his Image, and everting the work of his hands, wherewith he joined Soul and Body to participate in life. And though by his justice he inflicted death on all men for sin, yet of his mercy he sent his own and PAINFUL death, to be that part of the curse which Christ suffered for us. This I hope is more than shame, though shame and reproach were not the least parts of God's curse against sin even in Christ. You would needs in a bravado set up your bristles, and ask, What, 
s Treatis. pag. 38. ●…i. 20.  nothing but the shame of the world? will any man of common sense affirm, that this was all the curse that Christ bore for us?] I replied, that shame and ignominy was an express part of the curse which Christ dying suffered for us, and that there was no cause you should so much disdain chrysostom and Austen for so saying. The Scriptures themselves in that point concurred with them, as I have fully showed in my 
t Pag. 267.  Conclusion, and you can not avoid it. Lest therefore your Reader should take you to be tongue-tied, you clean change the case, and would have men believe, that I defend and endeavoured to prove, that 
u Defenc. pag. 71 li. 13.  shame was the whole curse which Christ endured. As though I alleged not S. Austen at 
x Serm. pag. 92. & 93.  large, to prove that death in all men, Christ not exempted, was a part of the curse inflicted on mankind for sin. And therefore when chrysostom said, the 
y Conclus. pa. 271.  cross is the only kind of death subject to the curse, I did not set him and Austen at variance, as if the one did trip the other, but I thus reconciled them; that 
z Conclus. pa. 271. li. 11.  not only death, (as in all men) but the ver●…e kind of death which Christ died, was accursed by the very words of the Law in Chrysostom's judgement. This then is one of your familiar trades and truths, to set down that in my name, which I never spoke nor meant; and so by lying, when you can not by reasoning, to support your cause. Indeed if a man will admit your absurd and false positions, so much is consequent out of their words. For where you will not have the death of the body to be any part of the curse inflicted on sin, except the death, of the damned be coherent with it, as in the reprobate; it followeth from Chrysostom's words, that the corporal death of Christ severed from all other sorts of death had no part of God's curse in it besides shame, which yet is as far from being a true curse, where the cause is good, as death itself; since neither shame nor death are true and inward curses, when they are suffered for righteousness, but rather causes and increases of blessing; not in, nor of themselves, but by God's goodness accepting, and recompensing them with all favour and bliss.  

a Defenc. pa. 71. li. 14.  Again you mislike, that I said Christ's dying simply, as the godly die, may in no sort be called a Curse or accursed.] I mislike, that you can not or will not distinguish, what death is in itself even to the godly, and what is consequent after it by God's mercy towards his Saints. And herein I say, you want both truth and judgement: for things are to be named by their natures, and not by the sequents, which often God sendeth clean contrary to the purposes, and practices of Satan, and his members. Tyranny, shall it be no cruelty, because it maketh Martyrs? Sin, shall it not be displeasing to God, because it humbleth the faithful by repentance? The corruption of man's nature, shall it not be sin, because thereby God exerciseth his Saints to watchfulness and prayer? Even so the death of the body, which God at first inflicted on all his Elect for sin, shall it be no punishment, for that God doth comfort his in death, and reward them after death? 
b Defenc. pag. 71. li. 16.  [I affirm, death to the godly is no curse properly.] And I a●…irme, that when you can not tell how to start from the force of truth, you do nothing but lie, or fly to your phrases of proper and very: which here, as in other places do you no good. In the fifteenth line of this page, you say the death of of the godly may IN NO SORT be called a Curse or Accursed. In the sixteenth, whiles you offer to prove those words, you confess them to be false. Death to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no Curse properly, you say, but a benefit and advantage; then improperly death is a curse: and before you said, It may in no sort be called a Curse to them. If in no ●…rt, then neither properly nor improperly. What then is that Enemy that must be dest●…oyed, a cursing or a blessing? Can it be an enemy to Christ, and yet a blessing to the godly? I cannot better refel your folly, then S. Austen doth in this very case. If death be a ble●…ing to the bodies of the godly, never desire to be delivered from it: what n●…ed you believe, or love the resurrection of the flesh, which is the destruction of death in the body; it death be a benefit to the body? But if this be repugnant to Christian religion, then hath death in it even a show of God's curse on the body for sin, which must be destroyed, before Christ can fully reign in all his Saints. [Yet is it to the godly no curse properly.] The height of your learning hangeth on the help of this word PROPERLY; we yet came to no point in all our defence, but when you see yourself pressed, you straightways post to PROPER and VERY; and yet you never define either, nor take the pains to expound yourself, lest you should be taken with open heresy and blasphemy, in applying one and the same curse properly and truly to Christ and the damned.  

c Defenc. pag. 7●…. li. 19  You say I am to young a Doctor to control Saint Austen herein; and I say you are a Doctor not old enough to prove Austen contrary to me in this point.] A far younger than I am will soon discern by that I have said, that S. Austen is repugnant in this point to your proper and very novelties: for where you say, Death to the godly may in no sort be called a curse; S. Austen thus expoundeth Christ's words to the godly: 
d August con ●…a Faustum. li. 14. ca 12.  Fear not those which kill the body, as if Christ had said, Nolite timere male dictum mortis corporalis quod temporaliter soluitur. Fear not the CURSE of a bodily death, which in time is dissolved. And so when he resolveth Moses had none other meaning in this sentence, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree, then if he had said; Mortal is every one that hangeth on a tree. 
e Ibid. ca 7.  Poterat enim dicere, maledictus omnis mortalis, aut maledictus omnis moriens. For Moses might have said; Cursed is e●…ry mortal man, or cursed is every man that dieth. If Moses might truly have so said, as it is evident by S. Austin's position, than I trust death in some sort may be justly called a Curse, even to the godly.  
But S. Austen saith, that the death of the body is good to the good, and evil to the evil.] That speech S. Austen saith, may be tolerated, not in respect of death itself, which is evil; but of the mercies of God, which follow the faithful after their deaths. His words, which you skip (as your manner is to do when any thing maketh against you) are Dici potest: It may be said. But upon that speech he presently moveth this question in the beginning of the next Chapter. If the death of the body be good to the good, 
f August. de civitate D●… li. 13. ca 3.  quo modo poterit obtineri, quòd etiam ipsa sit poena peccati? how may it be resolved, that it is also the punishment of sin? His resolution you did not read, or not regard, because it resisted your fancy; but thereby the Reader may see what credit is to be given to your words, when you crack of Fathers. 
g August ibid.  We must confess, saith Austen, that the first men were so created, that if they had not sinned, they should have tasted no kind of death; but the very same, being the first sinners, were so punished with death, that whatsoever should spring from their root, should be held subject to the same punishment. And discussing the question proposed more at large, he resolveth: 
h August. de civitate Dei. li. ●…3 ca 4.  Sic per ineffabilem Dei misericordiam & ipsa p●…na vit●…orum transit in arma virtutis, & fit meritum justi etiam supplicium peccatoris. So by the unspeakable mercy of God the punishment of vice becometh the armour of virtue, and the revenge of a sinner is made the merit of the just. 
i Ibidem.  Non quia mors bonum aliquod facta est, qu●… antea malum fuit, sed tantam Deus fidei praestitit gratiam, ut mors, quam vitae constat esse contrariam, instrumentum fieret, per quod transi●… in vitam. NOT THAT DEATH IS BECOME ANY GOOD, which before was evil, but so great favour God hath yielded unto faith, that death, which most certainly is contrary to life, is made an instrument (for the good) by which they pass unto life. And to make men the better to understand the effect of his speech, he bringeth an example out of the Scriptures, where the law is called the strength of sin. 
k August. de civitate D●…i. ●…i. 13. ca 5.  Why, saith he, rehearse ●…e this? Because that, as the Law is not evil, when it increaseth the lust of sinners, so death is not good, when it augmenteth the glory of the sufferes: but as the unjust do e●…lly use not only evil, but also good things; so the just do well use not only good, but even things that be evil. Hence cometh it, that the wicked use the Law ill, though the Law be good, & BONI be●…è moriantur, quamuis sit mors malum, and the good die well, though death be evil.  
I have touche●… at large Saint Anstens reasons and resolutions in his own words, because the Re●…der should the more clearly conceive him, and the discourser see him contrary to his conceits even in this point, which he so much denieth. The death of the body, which the godly do suffer, is to this day an evil of itself, and the punishment of sin; but God of his mercy towards his, hath given such grace, not to death, but to their faith, that by suffering death patiently, they shallbe the more plentifully rewarded. But as no wise man will say the Law is evil, when the wicked abuse it to kindle their lusts, so may no sober man say, that the death of the faithful is good in itself, though by God's goodness it be made to them a trial of their patience, and a passage to a better life. You say the nature of death is changed, and not to the faithful any longer an evil or part of the punishment and curse, which was laid o●… sin. S. Austen saith the contrary. It is still an evil as it was, and the nature thereof is not changed, though the use thereof be changed by faith, and the consequents altered by God's goodness. Now things must be esteemed by their nature, and not by their use, as Austen teacheth. For evil men use good things evilly, yet that maketh not good to be evil, because their use is inverted; and even so, saith Austen, good men have a good use of death, which is evil, yet that maketh not the death, which they suffer, to be good in itself, or in nature to be such, as by God's favour it is to them. When the death therefore of the faithful is said by Saint Austen or any others to be good, they mean the use, and not the nature thereof; and when they say it is evil, or a curse, they mean the nature and not the use. For touching the nature thereof the Apostle, who must be heard, saith fully and resolutely; Death is an 
l 1. Cor. 15. vers. 26.  enemy, that must be destroyed, even in the godly. And touching the use thereof, the same Apostle saith. 
m Philip. 1.  To me Christ is life, and to die is gain. Against this you neither do, nor can bring aught, besides waste words, and places either not understood of you, or wrested by you, as spoken of the nature of death, when they mean the use of death, which the faithful have by God's abundant blessing.  

n Defenc. pa. 71. li 26.  Yourself do say, The vengeance of the Law once executed on the surety, can no more in God's justice be executed on us.] In the vengeance of the law is comprised, corporal, spiritual and eternal death. The whole Christ neither did, nor could taste, and be a Saviour. A part he therefore tasted, which was the death of his body, and thereby freed us from the rest, which was due to our sins. From the death of the body he hath not as yet wholly delivered us, but he will; and in the mean time he hath broken the links of death (whereby those three were coupled together) first in his own person, who suffered the first kind of death, and neither of the other, and by virtue thereof hath done the like in all his Saints, leaving their bodies for a season unto death, as his was, that he may raise them after with greater power and glory, then if they had never died. What doth this hinder, but death may truly be called a Curse, as in Christ, so in his members; and though execution of vengeance be restrained from us, yet imitation of Christ is not excluded, neither is the general sentence pronounced against the sin of all mankind, (To dust thou shalt return) revoked but by the resurrection from the dead [how then was it vengeance on Christ, if it were due to man's nature?] Death was due to man's nature for sin, and consequently not due to Christ that had not sinned. When therefore it was laid on him, that deserved it not, it must be taken as the wages of our sin in his person; and so was a wound to him, though a medicine to us, because he 
o Esay 53.  was wounded for our transgressions, and we were healed by his stripes.  

p Defenc. pa. 71. li. 28.  Our public doctrine in England set forth by Master Nowell, confirmeth as much. To the faithful, death is now not a destruction, but a changing of life, and a very sure and short passage to heaven.] Every thing that is licenced or liked, as profitable to be publicly read or taught, is not by and by authorised in all things, nor made the public doctrine of this Realm. You would feign oppose Master Nowell to Saint Austen, who if he were living would give you no thanks therefore. Saint Austin's Faith hath been allowed and received by all Synods and Counsels since his time, and by the whole Church of Christ, as fit to guide and lead not only learners, but makers of Catechisms; and therefore the match, if they were repugnant, is somewhat unequal: but indeed you have need to be taught, how to understand your Catechism. That death is a destruction to the godly, can you tell who saith so, except it be yourself? That it is a changing of life and short passage to heaven, if you mean to the souls of the faithful, as the Ca●…echisme doth, no man doubteth thereof; if you mean to their bodies, that they by death change life, and so have a short passage to heaven, it is a notable falsity, and heresy, gainsaying the very grounds of the Christian faith. For privation of sense, and corruption to dust, is no life, much less an heaven; except you will multiply heavens as you do hells, without reason or truth. It is most true which the Catechisine intendeth, that death is this to the souls of the faithful, but not to their bodies as yet till the general day of resurrection; and then the destruction of death in their bodies shall bring them to the full possession of heavenly glory, provided both for soul and body: till that time, their bodies lie under the dominion or power of death, which is not yet destroyed in every part of us, because of sin dwelling in our bodies, though it thoroughly be conquered in the person of Christ, and shall be likewise in us at his appointed time.  
As little to the purpose is that, which you cite next out of the Catechism, that 
q Defence pag. 71. li. 35.  Death, which before was a punishment, is now become a vantage.] For he meaneth, that death before had nothing in it, nor after it but punishment, and so was wholly and only punishment; which now by Christ is altered, and made an advantage to us, as well in respect of the manifold miseries and offences of this life, from which we are delivered, as in regard of the felicity and security, which the souls of the Saints dec●…ased enjoy: but this is nothing to their bodies, which lie deprived of life and corrupted to dust till the final restitution. Neither is this a comparison with our condition before sin, (in which we were created,) when soul and body should jointly have been translated to the kingdom of heaven without any sense or touch of death, if we had stood fast in obedience; but this noteth, what death is after sin committed without Christ, and rightly saith, that when once by sin we were plunged into the depth of all misery, as a punishment for sin, than the grace of Christ by the death of his body broke off the chains of internal and eternal death knit to the former by God's justice, and made the natural death of our bodies, which without Christ was only a punishment, and the entrance to all other mischiefs of sin afte●… this life, to become now an advantage to the soul, which is presently freed from the labours of this life, and invested and secured with everlasting bliss. But the body is not yet quited from the burden and corruption laid on it by God's justice for the punishment of Adam's sin; and the soul in the midst of her comforts, not only feeleth the want, but showeth her desire to receive her body, as appeareth by the pra●…er of the souls under the Altar; who desire not now in heaven revenge of their persecutors, whom they pardoned and prayed for on earth, but wondering at God's patience, that is daily provoked and abused, they desire the day of 
r R●…uel. 6.  judgement, though th●…t bring with it the destruction of the wicked, because they shall then receive their bodi●…s, and with them the fullness of God's promises.  
That place of the Catechism doth ●… notably contradict you, who call death to the 
Defence pa●…. 7 ●…i. 3●….  G●…dly the gate of hell; a strange and most untrue translation:] The Catechism speaketh of the souls of the godly, who without Christ were assured by death to enter the bottomles●… pit of hell, and now by Christ do safely pass from death to heaven; but what is this to their bodies whereof I speak? do the bodies of the Saints pass strait upon death to heaven, as their souls do? I trust your Catechism saith not so; and therefore no way contradicteth me. [But I translate it so, when I call death the gate of hell, which is s●…range and untrue.] No good Sir, when I translated the text, because the word Sheol was doubtful and imported all the power and strength o●… hell against body and soul in this world, and in the next, I retained the very word Sheol; as may be seen in the page of my Sermons, which you cite, pag. 150. li. 32. yet what was meant by ●…heol in that place, when I came to examine, I did incline rather to the word hell, then to the word Grave, since we had in English no more words to express the power or danger of Satan's kingdom on earth. For neither the grief, which Ezechias conceived, nor the phrase, which he used, might be rightly referred to the grave. It was not the grave that Ezechiah did so much fear, and so much decline, it was the doubt of God's displeasure, that upon deliverance of him and his city from the hands of Senacherib, presently struck the king with sickness, and denounced death unto him, as unworthy to enjoy that protection, which God had showed from heaven in defence of his people against their enemies: and therefore in the bitterness of his soul, which he confessed did 
t Esa. 38. v. 14.  oppres●…e him, he said, he should go to the gates of Sheol, that is, to a dangerous conflict with death, between hope and fear of God's favour or anger. Neither doth Sheol there import only the grave: for at first Ezechiah resolved he should die, and so go farther than the gates or entrance of the grave. Neither doth that phrase in other places of Scripture express barely the burial of the bod●…e. 
u Matth 16.  The gates of hell, saith our S●…uiour, shall not prevail against my Church, by which he meaveth nothing less than the grave. 
x job. 38.  Are the gates of death known to thee, saith God to job, who could not be ignorant, what the sides and bottom of a grave were? 
y Psal. 9  Thou liftest me, saith David, from the gates of death, when yet he was sure to come to his grave. And had Ezechiah from the grief of his hart, under which he 
z Esa. 38. v. 14.  chattered like a Swallow, and mourned as a Dove, pronounced death to be the Gate or first invasion, that hell or Satan made one man's Body for sin, what had you to say against it? 
a Wisdom 2.  By the envy of the Devil, saith the wise man, Death entered into the world. The Apostle saith as much, 
b Rom. 5.  By sin Death e●…red into the world, not as a blessing of God, but on all men to Condemnation. From this Condemnation the Soul by Christ is presently released; the Body is also promised, but yet not cleared from that Condemnation to Death which sin brought with it. And since the Apostle calleth it an Enemy to Christ, and Austen doubteth not to name it a corporal Curse, why should I not number it rather amongst the gates or powers of hell, then of heaven, since the devil was the Author, and Christ will be the destroyer thereof.  
It offendeth you that I say, if we will reason what death is in itself, we must resolve it to be a part of God's curse; which you say is no answer. For who ever denied it to be in itself a part of God's curse for sin? but (your) express words are, death is to the godly no curse properly.] Do you now find the foil, how foolishly you have all this while supported an error, that yo●… now come with properly to prop it up, lest it fall on your head? You can now with shame enough confess, 
c Defenc. pa. 72. li. 33.  WE KNOW ALL SHAME AND AFFLICTION TO ALL MEN IS A KIND OF CURSE. Then death, a man would think, may rightly be called a kind of corporal curse; since that is the sharpest and forest of all outward asf●…ictions. [
d Ibid. li. 32.  A kind of curse, who ever denied that? say you.] Even your wisdom hath all this while denied it. In your Treatise you bleated forth this resolution. 
e Trea. pa. 45. li. 1.  Therefore Christ's dying simply as the godly die, MAY IN NO SORT HERE BE CALLED A CURSE, or accursed. You iterate the very same in your defence. Yea, it is the main ground of your second special reason. 
f Defenc. pa. 71. li 15.  Christ, you say, was made a curse sor us or accursed in his death. But to die simply as the godly do, may in no sort be called a curse or accursed. Christ therefore endured the curse and wrath of God truly. [Your 
g Defenc. pa. 72. li. 6.  express words, you say, are; Death to the godly is no curse properly, but a vantage.] Are not the other your express words also that the death of the godly MAY IN NO SORT BE called a curse or accursed? and doth not the force of your reason wholly depend upon these later words? For had you confessed that death, shame and pain were to the godly corporal curses; how then conclude you, that Christ was properly accursed? Because the Apostle saith, He was made a curse? Doth the Apostle say, he was made a curse properly? It would empt and waste all the wit in your head, from the one to conclude the other. Against your prec●…e Negative, that death in the godly might in no sort be called a curse, I opposed the contrary, that the death of the body was a curse for sin laid on the bodies even of the elect; and therefore might justly be so called in us, and much more in Christ, though the force of that curse were quenched in Christ, and the coherence thereof interrupted.  
In floating to and fro you fell to the curse of the Law, and the curse of God, and there, as your fashion is, you avouched what you listed, without any proof or witness besides yourself; telling us that Paul mentioned Christ's hanging on the tree as a part of the curse of the Law, thereby impolying the whole to be executed on Christ. The whole curse of the Law in my conclusion I showed to be 
h Conclus. pa. 265. li. 26.  external, corporal, internal and eternal plagues and punishments; and asked you which of these you affirmed of Christ. external and corporal curses in Christ I did grant; internal and eternal curses of the Law, which are want of grace, and loss of bliss, with perpetual damnation of body and soul, I said could not be ascribed to Christ without enormous and heinous blasphemy. To this when you should answer, you turn with a trice to your world of words, and say, your question was, Whether death to the godly were a curse properly or no. But sir remember the reason was yours, which if you do not fully proo●…e, you must wholly lose. You should therefore first define, what a proper curse is, and then apply the parts thereof, as well to Christ, as to the godly; and in so doing, we should soon have seen both the sense and truth of your speech. Now you hold fast to the ambiguity and uncertainty of the word proper, as though it were enough for you to deliver Oracles with the breath of your mouth; you say the word, and then the field is won.  

i Defenc. pag. 72. li. 4.  Our question is not, what death is in itself but what death is to the godly.] You are so wedded to your own words, that you understand no man else, and scant yourself. When I reason what the death of the godly is in itself, I speak not of the death, which they do no not suffer, that is not their death at all, which they no way feel; but since they die the death of the body, that death which they suffer, is to them one thing in his own force, which they taste and endure, and the consequents after death, by God's mercy provided for his servants, are most evidently other things, and he that cannot distinguish this, is no way worthy to bear the name of a Divine. For the joys of Gods heavenly kingdom are after death prepared for the godly. Shall we therefore say, the joys of heaven are death? Besides the smart and anguish which afflicteth the soul when she is driven from her body, death in itself is the separation of the soul from the body, with privation of sense and life in the body, and resolution of the same into dust. The joining of the soul with the body was a most wonderful work of God in his creation, and consequently 
k Gen. 1. v. 31.  very good, by the plain words of Moses. Then is the dissolution of the soul from the body repugnant to that which is very good, and of force evil; as being contrary to good. The making of man's body from 
l Gen. 2. v. 7.  the dust of the ground was likewise very good, by the same witness of Moses. Then the returning of the body to dust again must be an evil unto man, destroying that excellent work of God. And if sense, motion and action be blessings of God on man's body, than the bereaving of these must needs be curses in their kind. Yea since life was no small favour of God bestowed on man, when he made him a living soul; & (as all the rest in their degrees) was very good: then death which is the privation of life, is the taking of God's good blessing from man's body, which cannot choose but be a curse. It is recompensed, you will say, with a better blessing, even with the bliss of heaven.] The soul is, but not the body, so long as death prevaileth on it. And this blessing consquent is no way pertinent to the nature of death, no not as the godly do suffer it; but it is a fruit of God's favour reserved for the faithful in Christ jesus, who removeth death from their souls, and will do the like from their bodies, when the time cometh. Without death, you think, we can not come to God's presence.] And why is that, but because the corruption of sin dwelleth in our bodies, which is not meet for the kingdom of God? 
n 1. Cor. 15.  Corruption cannot inherit incorruption. And whence came this corruption, but from sin? and consequently the displeasure of God against sin, both brought corruption to our bodies, and for corruption keepeth our bodies under death, excluded for the time from his heavenly kingdom.  
Yet this is no proper curse to the bodies of the Saints] Haddit you but once declared what you meant by proper and true curses, six lines had long since leveled this question: but you according to the height of your skill, that never troubled yourself but with a few fond conceits, and some unsettled sentences, trace to and fro sometimes with no curse in any sort, sometimes with no true curse, and sometimes with no curse properly, and will not be drawn to step one foot farther. And though I have no cause to how your timber, that you leave ragged, yet for their sakes that would see the truth, I am content to square your work.  
Of God's curse I must say as I did of God's wrath; (for the wrath and curse of God are all one in effect) it noteth either God's detestation of sin, or his commination to sin, or which is most to this case, God's indignation or pnnishment provided for sin, or executed on sinners. For as man is said to bless with his mind, mouth, or hand, when he meaneth, prayeth, or doth good to any; so is he said to curse by thought, word, or deed, when he desireth, uttereth, or worketh evil to any. God is likewise said to curse in soul, when he detesteth and hateth evil; in voice, when he pronounceth or threateneth evil; in judgement, when he decreeth or inflicteth evil. To show how execrable sin is to God, the Scripture saith, these things God 
n Pro. 6. v. 16.  HATETH, and his soul ABHORRETH them. And so, the way of the wicked is 
o Pro. 15.  ABOMINABLE to the Lord. The threats of God against sin, and his plagues upon sin, are every where extant in the Law, and chiefiy in the 27. and 28. of Deuteronomie; where not only the greatest sins are namely and all sins in the close generally accursed, but the manifold plagues of this life pursuing the states, the bodies, and souls of sinners are numbered. 
p August. contra Faustu●… Manicheum. li. 14. ca ●….  Maledictum est omne peccatum, sive ipsum quodsit, ut sequatur supplicium, sive ipsum supplicium, quod al●…o modo vocatur peccatum, quia sit ex peccato. Accursed is all sin, saith Austen, as well the deed, which provoketh punishment, as the punishment itself, which in another sense is called sin, because it cometh from sin. The plagues and curses of sin extending as far as sinners have any parts, of which they consist, as body and soul; or places, in which they may be, as here so in hell; or pertinents, which they may have or need for the ease and use of this life; I called in my conclusion, external, corporal, spiritual and eternal plagues or punishments of sin.  
Contrary to cursing is blessing, which is good purposed, promised, o●… performed to obedience, as Cursing is evil intended, threatened, or prepared for disobedience; and so by the one Contrary we may rightly measure the other: yea the names of benediction and malediction, which is blessing and cursing, are derived from bonum and malum, good and evil. And therefore, as we conceive good and evil, to proceed from the bounty or justice of God, so must we reckon his blessings and curses to be. 
q Matth. 10.  None is good but only God; that is all true goodness is naturally, supremely, infinitely, and unchangeably in God, as likewise all true blessedness is. Neither can any thing have any degree of true goodness or blessedness, but only by derivation from God, and by participation with God. Capable of God, that is of the holiness, and happiness, that is in God, and cometh from God, are no Creatures but men and Angels; since only they have cognition and fruition of his true goodness and blessedness. To omit the Elect Angels, that have their measure of heavenly light and power, grace, and love, righteousness and holiness, joy and security in the continual presence and service of God; when God decreed to reveal himself to Man, he gave him a reasonable Soul endued with understanding and will, to discern, and desire the goodness, that is in God, and by loving and obeying God's righteousness, to have Communion with his blessedness. The better to declare himself to man, God gave him a Body to be quickened by his Soul with Life, sense, and motion, as a Tabernacle for the Soul to dwell and work therein; and made heaven and earth, and all the furniture thereof, for the use, delight, and safeguard of his Body; thereby to assure Man of his exceeding care for man, and bounty towards Man; which were not only wonderful causes of thanks, but evident proofs of greater favour, and honour reserved for him in the heavens, if he loved and served the Author, and giver of these earthly things. The integrity then, and safety; the sanity, Activity, and perpetuity of man's Body free from all dangers, distempers, decases, diseases, and death: The excellent beauty, plenty, utility, and variety of the Creatures serving man's use, obeying man's Rule, and increasing man's delight, were all the marvelous blessings of God on man, not only testifying to him the wisdom, power, and glory of the Creator by their natures, properties and forces, but leading him by the eyes, ears, and all other senses to the admiring, embracing, and honouring of that great and mighty Lord, that by these pledges proposed himself, with all his spiritual and unspeakable riches, to be the spouse of man's Soul, and reward of his love. He therefore that denieth or doubteth these to have been the blessings of God on man, when he first made man, and so to remain at this present; is an unthankful and wicked abuser, and despiser of God's goodness, and bounty towards himself and all mankind.  
The gifts of God on the Soul of Man were far worthier than those corporal and external blessings. For God gave unto Man reason and understanding, to behold the greatness, and withal the goodness of God, and free will, to cleave fast unto him, without preferring any Creature before him, or matching any thing with him; as likewise affections to inflame the hart with burning and unceasing love; Man feeling no defect, nor finding any impediment in that innocency, tranquility, facility and consonancy of all the powers and parts of the Soul and body, to the knowledge, love, and service of God. But none of the gifts and graces of God, either outwardly provided for man, or naturally engraffed in man's Body or Soul, did make Man truly blessed. For had he been truly blessed by these, he could not so wretchedly have fallen from these into the Seas of miseries, and heaps of curses, with which he was after for sin overwhelmed. Wherefore we must resolve, that as God is only truth, because he is by Nature immutable; and only blessedness, because no evil can approach him, so no blessing can rightly be called true, but that which is perpetual; nor full, but that which is free from all misery. Saint Austen saith wisely. 
r August. de Trinitate. li. ●…3 cap. 8.  Nullo modo poterit esse vita veraciter beata, nisi fuerit sempiterna. By no means may any life be TRVELY blessed, except it be EVERLASTING. And again, 
s August. in Psal. 123.  Veritas immortalis est, veritas incommutabilis est. Truth is eternal, truth is unchangeable. And so Ambrose 
t Ambros. de iis qui mysterijs initiantur.  Creaturae non potest esse veritas, sed species, quae facile soluitur, atque mutatur. There can be no truth, but a show in the Creature, which is easily lost, and changed. And therefore Austen expoundeth 
u August. de Trinitate. li. 13 cap. 9  beatam vitam stabilem, id est, veram; a steadfast, that is a true blessed life. For how can that be thought a true blessing, which may end in everlasting wretchedness? True blessings then there are none, but such as join us to God, who is the true fountain of all true blessing, that without any separation or defection from him, we may be partakers of him.  
By true blessing we shall best understand what true cursing is: for as EVIL is no contrary nature to GOOD, but only the defect or privation of good; so there is no true curse to us, but that which bereaveth us of our true blessing. 
x August. de Moribus MAnicheorum. cap. 4.  Malum non secundum essentiam, sed secundum privationem rectissime dicitur. Evil is most rightly said to be no essence, but the privation of good. To cleave fast to God, who is only and wholly our good, is the true blessing of men and angels; and consequently to be severed from God, and to lose all communion with him, is the true curse of men and angels. The true blessings of God bestowed on his children, though they be indeed infinite, yet may they be reduced to these three sums, according to the times wherein they were, are, and shall be performed: that is, TO THE LOVE of God freely afforded us before the world, whereby we were elected and adopted in Christ jesus our Saviour; TO THE LIKENESS of God, which we have in this world, where we are conformed to the image of his Son by the working of his Spirit, our sins being remitted, that divided us from God, and our hearts sanctified with the faith and love of his truth; and to THE JIFE of God, which after this world shall be revealed and imparted unto us in the heavens, where shallbe perfect blessedness without want of any good, or fear of any evil. The privation of these three blessings bringeth three evils, which are main and true curses to the wicked. F●…st, the dislike of God refusing them, the sting of sin defiling them, the sting of death excluding them from all joy and peace, r●…st and ease of soul and body for ever.  
Apply this to Christ and his members, and we shall presently find by the rules of our Christian faith, how far they agree to either. No true curse can be ascribed to Christ, which shall sever him from God, without apparent impiety: for neither the favour of God's favour towards his manhood, nor the fullness of grace and truth in his soul, nor the steadfast and most assured expectation of everlasting joy and glory set before him, even in his greatest afflictions and temptations, may be doubted of by any that will retain the name of a Christian; besides the perpetual and personal union of his manhood with his Godhead, to which was consequent such a communion with God, and fruition of God, as no elect man or angel ever had, or can have. Wherefore you must either defend, that the true curse of God did not sever him from God, but that one and the same nature in him might be truly blessed, and yet truly accursed of God at one and the same time; which are monsters meet for your doctrine; or else you must wholly forbear to aff●…rme any true curse of Christ, that shall separa●…e him from God; and what other true curses you will attribute to him, I would gladly hear. The like, though in far less measure, I yield to the membe●…s of Christ: for since they were before all world's beloved, elected, and 
y Ephes 1.  blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ, and the 
z 2 Tim. 2.  foundation of God standeth sure, having this Seal, the Lord knoweth who are his; yea the 
a Rom. 11.  gifts and calling of God are without rep●…ntance. And the Apostle is fully persuaded, that 
b Rom. 8.  neither death, nor life, nor angels, ●…r principalities, nor things present, nor things future, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ jesus; but that, whom God did 
b Rom. 8.  predestinate, those he called; and whom he called, those he justified; and whom he justified, those he glorified: I see no true curse, no not sin itself, that can fasten on Christ's members to their destruction; but howsoever 
c Ephes. 2.  by nature t●…ey were the children of (Gods) wrath, as well as others, yet by grace they are saved. and 
d Rom. 8.  all things shall wo●… for the best to them that love God, and are loved of him. They may want the●…e g●…ft, and graces for a time, and so not feel the fruits of God's election and voc●…tion, but with God they are truly blessed, because they are surely settled in hi●… favour, and foreappointed to be heirs of Salvation, though they lie cens●…ed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for a while in the mass of Adam's condemnation. The love and 〈◊〉 then of God is the original of all true blessing, and since that is vnmouea●…le towards the ●…lect, how much soever they be sometimes plunged by sin and Satan into fears and doubts of their salvation, all that is to humble them, and not to destroy them; and with God, who is truth itself, they are truly blessed, as being adopted in Christ, though in man's judgement, and even to themselves, they seem never so much accursed.  
What curses, you ask then, may be on the godly?] God's love, which is the ground of all true blessing, can not vary towards them; it is everlasting and immutable like himself. All other blessings, save this, they may want for a season in this world, as before they are lightened and called to the knowledge of God, they have no blessing in them more than the very Reprobate have. After they are engrassed in Christ, they may be tos●…ed and turmoiled with the very same e●…ernall and corporal plagues and punishments that the wicked are, and often times with greater and tha●…-per; but then they are supported with inward grace and comfort, which others are not; and when by ignorance, fear, or infirmity they fall, they shall not perish. Where then in the Curses of God inflicted on the wicked in this world and the next, three things must be marked; their D●…PRIVANCE of his bles●…ings of all sorts, their COHERENCE together, and CONTINVANCE for ever; the godly communicate with the wicked in some part of the first, that is, they may be sequestered from such external and corporal blessings as this life requireth, but of spiritual they can not utterly be dep●…ued, because they must be 
john. 3.  regenerated, and 
Coloss. 3.  renewed in the inward man to the Image of God, and 
Ephes. 1.  sealed by the holy spirit of promise, that they may be partakers of Christ here in this world, 
g Ephes. 1.  in whom they have Redemption, even the Remission of sins according to the riches of his grace. In the rest they may not communicate with the wicked. For where the Curses of God do FOLLOW one another upon the Reprobate, and abide for ever in the highest degree, from this the godly are wholly free, as 
h Galat. 1.  DELIVERED by the mercies of God in Christ from this present evil world, and 
i 1. Thess. 1.  from the wrath to come. If then we be saved from these things by Christ, how much more must Christ himself be saved from them, before he could save others? So that Christ, as I said at first, by submitting himself to a part of the curse of the Law, which depriveth us of all earthly and bodily blessings, and of life itself, quenched the whole Curse of the Law, and by his shameful, wrongful, and painful death quited us from everlasting death, which was the just reward of our sins.  
You say if by the Resurrection of Christ, 
k Defenc. pag. 72. li. 11.  the Nature of death were changed, then till Christ was risen, death was a punishment to the faithful themselves. I wonder what meaning there is in this Argument. As well you may say that none were saved till Christ was risen.] Wonder then at your own conceits reasons and Authorities. For if the nature of Death were changed, as you suppose it was, since it was first inflicted on Adam, I asked you how and when? before the change you do not doubt, but it was a punishment, you must grant, to the godly; for Christ never changed the Nature of Death to the wicked. Then if the change were made by Christ's dying and rising from the dead; how think you doth it not follow upon this confession, that death, BEFORE it was changed in the godly by Christ's Resurrection, was a punishment even to the godly? And to this end you bring the Catechism in this very Section. Death which BEFORE was a punishment is now by Christ become a vantage.] If death were never but a vantage to the godly, even when it was first inflicted, than the change, that you dream to be made of death in the Godly, is but a fancy. If NOW it be so, which BEFORE it was not; then BEFORE, what else could it be to the godly, but a punishment of sin? My Resolution was and is, that Christ was first promised by Gods own mouth, 
l Genes. 3.  to bruise the Serpent's head, before death was inflicted on Adam and his offspring. And therefore the punishment of man's sin following could extend no farther in the Elect, then to the death of the Body; unless you will make God's punishment repugnant to his promise of Christ made before to his Elect; which were to charge God with Inconstancy. And therefore either the death of the Body was never any punishment of sin in Adam, which is repugnant to the Scriptures, and the full consent of all Divines, old and new, or else it resteth still the same to the Elect, which it was at first, when it was inflicted on them in the person of their first Father. Indeed the promise of Christ to the faithful brake of the sequence of eternal death, which in the wicked is coherent to the death of their Bodies; and that made God in his judicial sentence pronounced against Adam's sin to comprise no more, but Adam's return to dust, for that he meant no more to his Elect, though he would suffer death to have his full force against the Bodies and Souls of the wicked both in this world and in the next for ever.  
As for the Salvation of the faithful before Christ's coming in the flesh, I see not which way that should be endangered by their afflictions in this life. It is written of Lazarus dying before Christ, that 
m Luke. 16.  in his life time he received evil, and therefore after death, he was comforted. So that their chastisement in this life, which was a moderate and fatherly correction and punishment of their sins, could be no impediment to their salvation, but work rather in them, that were patient in their troubles, as it doth in us, an 
n 2. Cor. 4.  excellent and eternal weight of glory. For in that the judgement of God began here in this life with them, their humbling themselves under the mighty hand of God with true Repentance of their sins and full assurance by faith that in the promised Seed their sins should be pardoned, caused God of his mercy to 
o jam. 4.  turn their ●…eauinesse into joy, and in 
p 1. Pet. 5.  due time to exalt them.  

q Defenc. pa. 72. li. 30.  Further you except against me touching Innocents and Martyrs executions, who I say are most blessed.] If you mean their Souls are most blessed, I said as much before you: if you respect their patience and love in laying down their lives for the truth, I make no doubt the death of God's Saints is precious in his sight. But if the suffering of death were a blessing and advantage, as you would have it, it were no such thanks with God to taste of his blessings for his name sake. The greatness of their reward showeth the sha●…pnesse of their conflict with the sting and smart of death; which because they refuse not for Christ's cause, their patience is the more precious in God's sight: but this doth not prove the corruption of their bodies turned to dust to be any blessing; but rather an enemy, that must be destroyed, before their bodies shall enjoy the true blessing of immortal glory, that is reserved for them. 
r Defenc. pag. 72. li 36.  The holy men are in truth most glorious and blessed in them.] If you speak of their bodi●…s, you speak falsely and directly against the Scripture, which expres●…ely saith, They are 
s 1. Cor. 15.  sow●…n in corruption and dishonour, but they shall be raised in incorruption and dishonour; and what can be more repugnant to the truth, or more reproachful to the resurrection from the dead, then to say, that corruption in the bodies of the Saints is most glorious and blessed.  

t Defenc. pag. 72. li., 8.  The Saints and Martyrs can not be properly cursed, and properly bl●…ssed too in any measure.] Can you see that in the members of Christ, and can you not see so much in Christ himself? You defend with might and main, that Christ was properly and truly accursed; and that he was also truly and properly blessed, except you will be wor●…e than a Turk, you may not deny. For even his manhood was personally joined with his Godhead, and more abundantly blessed then any Martyr can be, as having in him the fullness of blessing for himself, and us all. How hangeth then this not only monstrous, but impious Assertion of yours together, that the Soul of Christ was truly and properly most abundantly blessed, and most properly cursed at one and the same instant? You will come in with your two countenances and conditions, his own and ours; but in vain do you salve a manifest contrariety and impiety with countenances. Christ was truly accursed in no condition or countenance, since he was most blessed in himself, and the spring of all blessing to us.  

u Defenc. pag. 73. l. 1.  The Souls of the Martyrs are not blessed, unless their bodies be blessed also, and free from the true cur●… although you seem to den●…e this point.] Of the TRUE curse ●…aide on the bodies of Martyrs, I spoke never a word, and therefore that is no uncouth Assertion of mine, as your phrase is, but an impudent fiction of yours, that think best to bel●…e the truth, when you cannot otherwise prevail against it. I said not a wo●…d mo●…e than Saint Austen said before me. 
x August. contra ●…austum Man●…h. li. 14. cap. 12.  Maledictus omnis moriens. Accursed is every one that dieth. And when the godly are so straightened, that they must either commit Idolatry, or suffer Martyrdom, even in that case of Martyrs, Saint Austen saith. El●…gendum est maledictum in corpori●… morte, quo maledicto & ipsum corpus in Resurrectione liberabitur, devit andum autem maledictum in animae morte, ne cum suo corpore in aeterno igne damnetur. A Christian, when these two are proposed, must choose the curse of a bodily death, from which curse the body shall be freed in the Resurrection, and he must shun the curse of the death of the Soul, lest that be together with the body condemned to everlasting fire. And to prove this to be, non Anicularis mal●…dictio, an old wife's curse, as the Manichees called it, but a prophetical prediction, he giveth sound reasons to all, that list not to mo●…ke and elude the truth as you do. 
y Contra Paustum li. 14. ca ●….  Morsipsa ex maledic●…o. Death itself came from the curse, that was laid on all mankind for sin. 
z Ibidem.  Maledictum est omne peccatum, si●…e ipsum quod sit, ut sequatur supplicium, si●…c ipsum supplicium, quod al●…o modo vocatur peccatum, qu●…a fit ex peccato. Accursed is all sin, whether it b●…e the fact deserving punishment, or the punishment itself, which is after a sort called sin, because it is cau●…d by sin. Which words though you afterward idly abuse, yet are they sound and consonant to the Scriptures. Of sin there is no question, but that is in it sel●…e truly accursed (as being the root and cause of all God's curses upon men and Angels) where it is not remitted; and howsoever of mercy God doth pa●…don it unto his Elect, yet he hateth their sins in such sort, that either sin must die in them by true and hearty repentance, or they must perish with it. For to the impenitent no sins are pardoned; 
a Luke. 13.  Except ye repent, saith our Saviour, ye shall all perish likewise  
As sin is accursed, so all punishment of sin, saith Austen, is accursed; meaning till it be released, and no longer a punishment of sin. Which he avoucheth not of the wicked only, whose punishment is perpetual, and therefore truly and properly a curse, but of all the godly, when they suffer for their sins. 
b August. de Trinitate. li. 4. cap. 12.  We, saith Austen, came to death by sin, Christ by righteousness: and therefore where our death is the punishment of sin, his death is the sacrifice for sin. And that the death of our bodies is hateful to God, even as our sin is, he resolveth in these words. 
c August. contra Faustum. li. 14. cap. 6.  Nisi Deus odisset peccatum, & mortem nostram, non ad eam suscipiendam atque delendam filium suum mitteret. Except God had hated sin, and also death in us, he would never have sent his Son t●… undertake, and destroy our death. For so much the more willingly God giveth us immortality (of our bodies) which shallbe revealed with Christ's coming, how much the more mercifully he hateth our death, which hung on the cross, when Christ died. Here you may learn that the bodies of Martyrs are so acceptable to God, that he hateth death, which detaineth them in dust; and that the love, which he beareth to the one, is the cause why he will destroy the other, as an enemy to them, ●…hom he loveth, and therefore justly hated of him: but in the mean time, how false is this reason, which you so much stand on? God in his secret and everlasting counsel loveth the souls and bodies of his Saints, as being the 
d 1. Cor. 6.  members of Christ, and 
d 1. Cor. 6.  temples of his holy spirit: therefore he hateth neither sin in their souls, nor death in their bodies. Nay rather the more he loveth the one, the more he hateth the other, and sent his Son to destroy both sin and death in his elect, as the Enemies, that hinder and defer the true bliss promised to his servants.  

e Defenc. pa. 73. li. 7.  You say we must call things by those names which God first allotted them. That I deny, if God since evidently hath altered them. My rule had more reason in it, than you do comprehend. For if it be written of Adam in his innocency, that God 
f Gen. 2. v. 19  brought (all living creatures) unto man to see how he could call them, and how soever the man named the living creature, so was the n●…me thereof; how much more shall it be verified of God's wisdom, 
g Ia●…. 1.  With whom is no change, that he 
h Acts. 15.  knew all his works from the beginning of the world, and therefore 
i 1. Pet 1.  the word of the Lord abideth for ever, that he may be 
k Rome 3.  justified in whatsoever he saith? [but God, you say, hath made the alteration himself.] or else your conceit deceiveth you. For God hath not revoked the general judgement, which he gave upon all men for sin, 
l Ge●…es. 3.  Dust thou art and to dust thou shal●… return, but he hath performed his promise made before he inflicted this punishment, that the Seed of the woman should bruise the Serpent's head. And therefore there is no change made by God, as you imagine, but he qualified his sentence at the first pronouncing of it on all his elect, even as it standeth to this day. And were there that addition since made by God, which you untruly dream of, Yet Saint Austen 
G●…d wor●…th good by ●…uill.  telleth you, that altereth not the name of punishment first imposed on all, but showeth God's goodness towards his own. 
m August. de c●…uitate D●…i. li. 13. cap. 6.  Whatsoever it is in those that die, which with bitter pain taketh away sense, by religious and faithful enduring it, it increaseth the mer●…te of patience, Non aufert vocabulum poenae, it taketh not away the name of punishment. His firm resolution is. 
n Ibidem.  Wherefore as touching the death of the body, that is, the separation of the soul from the body, when such as die suffer it, Nulli bona est, it is good to no man. And noting the use, that God maketh thereof in crowning his Saints, with as ample words, as you have any; he resolutely concludeth. 
o Ibidem. li. 13. cap. 7.  Mors ergo non ideo bonum videri debet, quia in tantam utilitatem non vi sua, sed divina opitulatione conversa est. Death the●… ought NOT TO BE THOUGHT GOOD, because by God's mercy, and not by any force of his own, it is turned to so great utility. And this assertion you and your adherents must yield unto, lest you rather convince yourselves, than that worthy pillar of Christ's church to be in an error. For the ground that he standeth on, is sure. God turneth evil to a good use, and will you therefore deny evil to be evil, because God useth it well? to how many good and blessed purposes doth God use the devil? and shall the devil by your doctrine now cease to be a devil? what excellent effects doth God work by the sins of the faithful? shall we therefore not call them, nor account them sins? you be clean out of your bias good Sir, when you come in with your changes made by God, to alter the names or natures of things that be evil.  

p Defenc. pag. 73. li. 10.  Afflictions and death, which originally and Naturally were punishments for sin, and so are still in the wicked, the same to the godly are since changed, and now not punishments nor curses.] To wise men there is enough said; to babblers, who will still talk they know not what, nothing is enough. The Scriptures and Fathers may not be set aside to give way to your follies. Daniel confessing the sins of himself, and of his people Israel, plainly saith. 
q Dan. 9  Therefore the Curse is powered upon us, written in the Law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. Baruc made the same 
r Barue. 1. & 3.  confession during the Captivity. Saint john in his Revelation, of the City of God now brought to the presence of the Lamb saith, 
s revel. 22.  There shall be no more Curse; meaning amongst the faithful, as there was before. For the wicked then shall be most deeply accursed. Saint Austen learnedly and largely writing of the miseries of man's life saith. 
t Augu●…t. de civitate D●…i. li. 22 ca 22.  Quot & quantis poenis agitetur genus humanum, quae non ad malitiam nequitiamque iniquorum, sed ad conditionem pertinent miseriamque communem, quis ullo sermone digerit, quis ulla cogitatione comprehendit? With how many and how great punishments mankind is pursued, which pertain not to the malice and lewdness of the wicked, but to the common condition and calamity of man, what tongue c●…n express, what heart can comprehend? And repeating many particulars, which there may be seen, he concludeth: 
u Ibidem.  Satis apparet humanum genus ad luendas miseriarum poenas esse damnatum. It appeareth sufficiently, that mank●…de is condemned to endure the punishments of miseries. And lest you should fly to your shift of improper speeches, as your manner is, S. Austen exquisitely discusseth and resolveth this question that these miseries and afflictions come from the just judgement of God for the punishment of sin, though withal God mean to recall his own from sin. 
x August. in expositione epistolae ad Romanos inc●…ata.  So great is the constancy of God's justice, that when spiritual and ETERNAL punishment is released to the penitent, yet CORPORAL afflictions and torments, with which we have known many Martyrs to be exercised, and lastly DEATH itself, which our nature d s●…rued by si●…, is remitted to none. Quod ●…nim justi homines & pi●… tamen exsoluunt ista supplicia, de i●…sto Dei judicio venire credendum est. And that even just and godly men do abide these punishments, we must believe it to proceed from the just judgement of God. S. Peter plainly showeth, that even those v●…rie sufferings which the righteous endure, pertain●… to the judgement of God. Neither was S. Au●…ten ignorant of Gods good purpose in afflicting his Saints, but he therein avoucheth as I do, that justice is tempered with mercy. 
y August. de vera re●…igione ca 15.  justitiae pulchritudo est cum benignitatis gratia concordans, ut quoniam bonorum inferiorum dulcedine decepti sumus, amaritudine poenarum ●…rudiamur. It is the beauty of God's justice conjoined with the grace of his clemency, that because we were deceived with the sweetness of our inferior pleasures, we should be chastened with the bitterness of punishments. Which he specifieth in the body of man: that the 
z Ibidem.  body of man, which before sin was in his kind most excellent, after sin became weak and sub●…cted to death, though this were the just revenge of sin, yet it showeth more of God's mercy, than of his severity. Consult all your Consorts in this Realm, and send for help beyond the seas, as you did in making your Defence, and you shall never be able to overthrow this position of S. Austin's, which is the very point, that at first I maintained.  
And because you are so pert with the public doctrine of this Realm, look not in your Catechism provided for boys, which yet you had need more exactly to learn, but in the book of Common prayer advisedly considered of by the whole Clergy, and confirmed by the full authority of Prince and Parliament to be used in all the Churches of this Realm, and you shall there see the same confession made by the mouths and hearts of all the godly in this land, since the profession of true religion here e●…tablished. The Church of England in her public prayers to God, where she may neither falter nor dissemble, thus maketh he●… humble, but true petitions unto God: Lord we beseech thee, that we which are justly punished for our offences, may be 
 m●…rcifully del●…ered by thy goodness. So again: 
b The f●…rth Sunday after th'. 〈◊〉.  God which knowest etc. grant to us the ●…e. l●…h of b●…die and soul, that al●… those things which we suffer for sin, by thy help m●… may well overcome. And amongst the prayers after the Litany in time of dearth and famine: Grant, that the scarcity and dearth (WHICH WE JUSTIY SUFFER FOR OUR iniquity) may through thy goodness be turned into cheapness and plenty. And likewise there for fair weather: We humbly beseech thee, that although we for our iniquities have worthily deserved this plague of rain and waters, yet upon our true repentance thou wilt send us such weather, whereby we may receive the fruits of the earth in due season, and learn both by thy punishment TO AMEND OUR ●…IVES, and for thy clemency to give thee praise. See you here the faith and confession of the Church of England: That we are justly PUNISHED for our offences, with extern●…ll and temporal afflictions. And by those punishments we should learn to repent and amend our lives, that God of his goodness may release us of the Plagues which we have worthily d●…erued for our iniquities, and justly suffer for our sins. God's purpose is to amend us you will say, and not to punish us.] The Church of England ●…eleeueth that God doth both. He doth pun●…sh even his own for example of his just i●…gement yet not to destruction, as he doth the wicked, but to rep●…ntance, that is, to the acknowledging and amending our mi●…deeds. [This you think is not properly pun●…shment.] It is not properly vengeance, because the measure is tolerable, and the purpose is favourable. [Only Christ, you say, suffered the whole proper punishment of our sins. In Christ the measu●…e of puni●…hment was tolerable, not exceeding his strength and patience; and the purpose of God in punishing him was ●…arre more honourable; to wit, for the full satisfa●…tion of God's justice by the innocency and dignity of Christ's person for the cleansing and saving our souls and bodies, for the dest●…oying of Sa●…ans power and force by the rule of righteousness, and for the exalting of Christ's manhood to be the Lord in heaven and earth over quick and dead. So that pun●…shment in the wicked is to de●…ruction, in the godly to Correction and E●…endation, in Christ to satisfaction and humil●…ation, before the glory of God's kingdom was laid on his shoulders.  
You must remember, 
c Defenc. pag. 7●…. li 20.  your own place of A●…sten: Mal●…dictum est omne peccatum. Th●… c●…rse all sin, which is two s●…ld, either that which we co●…mit against God's la●…, or else the very punishment of that sin.] You should remember to vnde●…stand first S. Aust●…ns Latin, and then S. Austin's meaning. MALEDICTUM is not ●…eere a Substantive, as you mistake it, but an Adiect●…e, as appeareth by S. Austin's using in this ve●…y sentence, but the line before, the Masculine gender Maledictus, to which this is joined with a Conjunction Copulative; and his al●…ering the case with a Preposition, the very word before, where he useth the Substantive: for thus stand his words; 
d August. contra ●…ustum 〈◊〉. li. 14. ca 4.  Hoc est enim mortuus est, quod maledictus, quoniam mors ipsa ex maledicto est, & maledictum est omne peccatum. D●…ad is all one with accursed, because death cometh from the curse, and a●…cursed is all sin; and not as you say, The curse is all sin. The words next before contradict it: for death, which is the punishment of sin, S. Austen saith proceedeth from the curse; and by that concludeth it to be accursed, but not the curse itself, whence death cometh: for that which cometh, and that whence it cometh, must be different. Ne●…ther doth S. Austen mean, that the act of sin committed by man is the curse of God, since that must be ●…omewhat in God, besides the punishment which proceedeth from God; but sin committed by man is hated and d●…tested by God's holiness, and that hatred and rejection of sin, which is in God, is the first curse of sin. And so S. Austen expoundeth hi●…selfe: 
e Ibid ca 6.  Quid ergo mirum, si maledictum est Deo, quod Deus od●…? What marvel then, if that be accursed to God, which God hateth? So that the hatred and detestation, which God in his holiness hath of sin, and of the person for sin, whereby his justice decreeth vengeance on the sinner, is the curs●… that is consequent to sin: and so the word EXECRABLE signifieth one detested, hated, and re●…ected. Accursed is sometimes taken for worthy of the curse, and deserving the same, and so may the godly be said to be accursed in themselves, that is, provoking and deserving the curse, though in mercy God spare them, and hold them blessed in Christ, who are beloved for Christ●…s sake. The punishment of sin, which is most just with God, is a curse to the sufferer, that is, g●…ieuous and hateful to him, as sin was hateful to God when it was committed. And so much the word MAIUM, whence maledictus cometh, signifieth in the Scriptures, that is, evil, or displeasing to God or man. For as sin, which man committeth, is displeasing, that is, evil in the eye of God, though the doer delight therein; so punishment, which man suffereth for sin, is g●…ieuous, that is, evil to the sense of the sufferer, though it be most righteous with God, that is the Inflicter.  

f Defenc. pag. 7●…. li. 22.  Now your Testimonies Pag. 96. do mean Christ was not made a Curse or sin the first way, that is he was not in himself sinful nor hated; they deny not the second, that he was 
How Christ was made a Curse for us.  made the proper punishment, or Sacrifice for sin.] You reach beyond your strength, when you come to interpret Fathers. And no marvel, for you that understand not your Catechism rightly, how should you intermeddle with expounding those, whom you never read, nor regarded? and that will well appear by your exposition in this place. What Christ was naturally and continually in himself, he can not be said to be made that for us. To be MADE importeth a change, which was not before, and FOR US excludeth the respect of himself, and noteth as much as for our good, or for our sakes. So Christ when he was true God, and with his Father from everlasting, was 
g john. 1.  made flesh, not for himself, but for us, 
h Esay. 9  unto us, saith the Prophet, a child is borne, and unto us a Son is given. Even so, when Christ 
i 2. Cor. 5.  knew no Sin, he was made sin for us; and when he was the promised Seed, in which 
k Galat. 3.  all Nations should be blessed, he was made a Curse for us. When then the Scriptures or Fathers observe, what Christ was made for us, they imply that before, and of himself he was otherwise. Now of Saint Paul's words, Christ was made a Curse for us, Cyrill and Epiphanius bring two different expositions. The one, which is Cyrils, that Christ was 
l Cyrill. in Defensio. 1. Anathematis. ad Ori●…ntales.  not truly accursed, but reputed amongst the unrighteous, being indeed just; and as his Condemnation by men did acquit us with God, so his being reputed and esteemed by men amongst the wicked and accursed, did clear us from the Curse before God. The other, which Epiphanius followeth, that as God promised by his Prophet, saying, 
m Ose. 13.  o Death, I will be thy Death, o hell, I will be thy destruction: So Christ was 
n Epiphanius contra Marci●…: heres. 42.  made a Curse to the Curse, that is a dissolving of the Curse, and a blessing to all that believed in him. To both these you answer, Christ was not made sin in himself.] As much to the purpose, as Charing Cross to Cheap side. For they do not only say, that he was just and blessed in himself, but they show how Saint Paul's words must be understood, that he was made a Curse amongst men, that is rejected and condemned as a wicked Malefactor; or that he became a Curse to the Curse, that is a Destroyer of the Curse due to us. Neither of these can you refute, and therefore your Reason drawn from these words of the Apostle, is not worth a rotten rush to conclude any thing for your purpose; and either of their expositions having two parts; a Negative, and an affirmative, you clean miss their meaning in both, and say they deny not, but Christ was made a 
o Defenc. pag. 73. li. 25.  Sacrifice for sin.  
Now if you remember Saint Austin's words, on which you would seem to stand, you shall see two Conclusions directly drawn against two points of your new found Doctrine. For if nothing can be truly accursed in Man but the committing of sin, and just suffering for sin, as you concea●…e Austin's words, than Christ could n●…ither way be truly accursed. For first 
p Esa. 53. 1. Pet. 2●…  he did no sin; and committing none, he could not be accur●…ed by the guilt of our sin, as you teach he was. Secondly, the punishment of sin is not truly accu●…sed, till it be justly deserved. But Christ was just and holy, as the Scriptures avouch, even when he suffered for us. He 
q 1. Pet. 3.  suffered the just for the unjust; and 
r Act. 3.  ye denied the holy one and Iust. Therefore Christ was not truly accursed by his suffering for sin. And you yourself before you be ware, confess thus much, whiles you would avoid these Fathers, and uphold the Apostles words as pertinent to your purpose. For you grant the Apostles meaning to be, that Christ was made a Sacrifice for sin; and consequently that he could neither be defiled with our sin, nor accursed for our sin. For a Sacrifice though it be slain, and bear the sin of others; yet is it not only clear from sin, but holy to God, and accepted for sin. If the Sacrifices, which were but figures of the true Sacrifice, were neither defiled nor accursed, though they were slain for sin, how much more than shall the death of the true Sacrifice be in deed undefiled and blessed with God, for which all our sins are remitted, and our Curses abolished.  
And this iustineth both Cyrils and Epiphanius exposition. Christ was 
s .  not in truth a curse, or sin, saith cyril; but he was called by those names, that he might abolish the cur●…e ●…nd sin. For so are Sacrifices in the Scriptures called sin, which abolish sin, and the curse for sin. The same reason may serve for Epiphanius words. Christ 
t .  took away the curse for our sin, when he fastened himself to the Cross, as a voluntary Sacrifice for sin: and so much Ambrose expresseth. God 
u Ambros. in 〈◊〉. ed Galat. cap. 3.  delivering Christ, that was there to willing, unto death for those, who were under the curse of the Law, made him a curse after the same manner, that a sacrifice offered for sin, is in the Law called sin. Thus whiles you would undertake to answer these Fathers, you have confes●…ed, that not only they refused your hateful exposition of the Apostles words, but even refute your sinful doctrine, that Christ was truly defiled with our sins, and truly accursed for our sins, when they acknowledge Christ to be the true sacrifice for sin, and thereby to purge our sins, and abolish our curse, being made of God a death to death, and a destruction to hell. Nazianzen saith, 
x Nazianz super illud quum consumm●…sset jesus hoss●…me.  Christ not only received on him all absurd and odious names, but that, which is most absurd of all others, he was called sin itself, and THE CURSE ITSELF, though he were not so. For how should he be sin, that freed us from sin? or how should he be a curse (indeed) that Redeemed us from the curse of the Law? Nazianzen admireth Christ's patience and humility, that endured to have himself accounted, called, and abused by men as a sinful and accursed wretch; and saith, Christ was content so to be made a curse for us, when indeed he was none, by the wrong, which he suffered at men's hands, to free us from the just desert of our sins with God. Which exposition I bring to let the Reader see, how much the learned and godly Father's detested your proper and true curses in the whole manhood of Christ.  
But we shall have fresh proof, 
y Defenc. pa. 73.  That your speech was sound, your reason evident, and that I openly perverted your words.] You were never brought up belike, but where will went for reason, and speech for prose; you tell us so often of sound and evident reasons, when you bring nothing besides your naked and absurd fancies. Your speech, you say, was sound that 
z li. 26.  Christ's dying simply, but as the godly die, might in no sort here be called a curse.] Take home your As, that you set running abroad to breed a brabble, and your speech hath neither soundness nor sense in it. That Christ died the same kind of death, which the godly die, I mean the death of the body, (and not of the soul, nor of the damned) is a plain position of the Scriptures. 
a Co●…inth 4.  We are afflicted, persecuted, and dejected, saith Paul; 
a Co●…inth 4.  everte where we bear about in our bodies the dying of the Lord jesus: and again, 
b Phil. 3.  I count all things loss, that I may be CONFORMED to his death. Christ laid down his life for us, saith Saint john, and 
c 1. joh. 3.  we ought to lay down (our) lives for (our) brethren. 
d Aug●…st. in 〈◊〉. 70.  Ibi mortuus est Christus, ubi tues moriturus: there (or in that part) Christ died, in which thou shalt die. 
e .  Hactenus morerentur ad Christi gratiam pertinentes, quatenus pro illis ipse mortuus est Christus, carnis tantum morte, non SPIRITUS. We are Redeemed, that such as pertain to Christ's grace should so far forth die, how far forth Christ himself died for them, that is only the death of the body, and not of the SPIRIT. So that the godly are conformed and matched with Christ, as touching the kind of death, which must be common to both; and that being a punishment and curse on our nature for sin, why is it not truly said of Saint Austen, that Christ received our curse, that is a bodily death, to free us from everlasting death, which is the true curse of body and soul?  

f Defenc. pa. 73. i. 28.  The reason is evident, because the text here doth speak and treat of the curse of the Law against sin: such therefore was Christ's curse, which he sustained.] The text speaketh of the curse of the Law pronounced against us for violating the Law. That curse the Apostle doth not apply to Christ, as you do; but bringeth another text of the Law, where the violent and shameful punishment of hanging on a tree is called a curse. To which since Christ submitted himself for our ●…akes, and so suffering a curse of punishment, he discharged us from the whole curse of the Law due to us for transgressing. Wherefore your leaping from the one curse to the other, and from a part to the whole, is no evident reason, but an evident falsehood, which chrysostom, Augustine, Ambrose, Nazianzen, Epiphanius and Cyrill do mightily impugn, and yourself in the end do yield, Christ may be rightly called sin and so a curse, in that he was a sacrifice for sin and for the curse, which is as clean contrary to your Assertion here, as holiness and righteousness is to uncleanness and wickedness.  
You 
g Def●…nc. pag. 73. li 36.  openly pervert my words, affirming that I say death here, (that is Christ's death noted, Galat. 3. vers. 13.) may in no sort be called a curse, when I expressly even there, and every where say the contrary.] You are very jealous, that I go about to clear you from your absurd and false conceits without your consent; but your fear is needless, as your quarrel is causeless. I applied not HERE to Christ's death, as you most fond mistake, and invert my report of your words, but I refer HERE to the curse there mentioned, observing in you, that you defended Death (which all the godly have common with Christ, as touching their bodies,) 
h Conclus. pa. 268 li. 17.  might in no sort here be called a curse, that is the curse, which the Apostle here nameth. I am so far from envying your glory in this point, though I pity your folly, that where you make Christ's 
i Defenc. pag. 52. li. 1.  Afflictions every one, both small and great, (from the day of his birth to the hour of his death) to be proper punishments and so true curses and effects of Gods very wrath in him for our sin; I will add, if you will, that Christ's hunger, weariness, weeping and groaning in spirit (for these are afflictions brought into man's nature by sin) are likewise defended by you to be true curses in Christ. Howbeit you shall do well, in all these miseries and infirmities of our life and nature, to find out Christ's most blessed humility and charity, not refusing them for our comforts, and leave the proper and true curses of God for the devil, and his associates.  

k D●…fenc. pag. 74 li. 1.  Your greatest exception is, that this curse laid on Christ, cannot b●…e understood of the whole curse of God, or of the law.] The exception is such, that withal the wits and shifts you have, you shall never avoid it. For where the whole curse of the Law hath in it corporal, spiritual, and eternal death well deserved by sin, and most justly inflicted on sinners, as we see in the wicked and reprobate, who for sin are subjecteth to these three deaths or curses; the two last, which are spiritual and eternal death, you can not offer to Christ without heretical and diabolical blasphemy; and to draw the Apostle into that society, were arrogant and impudent impiety. Since than there are so notorious impediments, why Christ neither did, nor could suffer the whole curse of the Law denounced to sin, and provided for sin, with what face and conscience you shift and shuffle this gear, let the Reader judge, if he have either godly wisdom, to which you appeal; or but human sense, from which I do not appeal. Your conveyance is as weak, as your cause is wicked. Christ, you say, suffered the whole curse of the Law, save what you excepted thence, 
l Defenc. pag. 74 li. 19  only so far as possibility of things could admit, that is which you saw was impossible he should suffer. And so we have here your own confession, that possibility of things could not permit Christ to suffer the whole curse of the Law, and yet you make the Apostle to mean all these impossibilities. For he maketh none of your exceptions. But look somewhat nearer, and you shall see greater bars to that total assertion than impossibilities, even horrible impiety and blasphemy; which if they bar not you from your boldness, they terrify me and all good Christians to come within the sound of them. This shift being shame●…l, you slide to another as absurd and impertinent to your purpose, as the former. For were it granted, which yet is no way proved, that Christ suffered some parts of the curse in his whole manhood, will you thence infer, that he suffered the whole curse? By what holdfast hangeth this together, but by your headynesse, that will say any thing? If a man should thus reason: Paul with his whole manhood wrote part of the Scriptures: Ergo, he wrote the whole Scriptures: or Nymrod and his company laboured with all their might and skill to build part of the Tower of Babel: Ergo, they built the whole tower of Babel, notwithstanding God scattered them; would you not deride these reasons? Yours is as ridiculous.  

m Defenc. pag. 74. li. 31.  In other respects, this suffering of Christ may ●…ell be called the whole curse or punishment of sin.] Your other respects since you think them not worth the repeating, I think them less worth the refuting. If you have said aught before touching this matter, I have not left it unsifted; and as you send me to pry after your proofs, I send you to toot after my answers. Only this is worth the noting that where you refer yourself to your eleventh page among others; I find nothing there to this purpose, but that you say namely of 
n Pag. 11. li. 25. & 27.  Rejection, malediction, and dereliction; ᵒ In Christ could utterly be none of these: and here you say, the whole Malediction of sin and of the Law was truly and properly suffered by Christ. Such graces you have to declare your meaning by plain Contradictions.  

k Defenc. pa. 74. li. 23.  Mark if our public Doctrine be not the same. Diram execrationem suscepit.] I mark well enough how you wrest and wrong the Catechism, to force it to your error. The Chatechisme saith; that kind of death was above all others execrable and detestable, which yet Christ chiefly would suffer for us, that he might receive that grievous Curse, which our sins had deserved, on himself, and so quite us from it. That kind of Death, which all men justly detested and abhorred, Christ would chiefly choose, that thereby he might receive on himself the grievous Curse, that was due to us, and so quench it. The Catechism than granteth, this was all the kinds of Death that Christ suffered for us, which because it was full of shame and pain, he calleth a grievous Curse or punishment. What is this to the whole Curse of the Law, in which the death of the Soul by want of grace, and the death of the damned, which is the second death, are comprised? You would feign have all men of your mind, and that maketh you think every man speaketh in your sense; otherwise the Catechism, if you pervert it not, is clear enough from your conceits of hell inflicted by God's immediate hand on the Soul of Christ, though it talk sometimes of things not altogether so fit for children's understanding. And had the Catechism gone farther to mention other degrees of our Curse, yet so long as, in se suscepit, is not precisely to suffer the same, but to undertake and to discharge all, that is due to us, Christ might well, and did take upon him in his Body to pay the Price and amends of our whole Curse, but not to suffer all the parts thereof, which were spiritual and eternal death, though he gave Recompense and satisfaction even for those, when he quited us from them.  

q Defenc. pa. 74. li 33.  After this you think it strange, that I say, Christ suffered and died justly, and was hanged on the Tree by the just sentence of the Law; and that so he was by imputation of our State and Condition unto him, sinful, defiled, hateful, and Accursed.] You coin so many fresh and false presumptions and positions, that I think nothing strange in you; so you may fly to a Phrase, or cast a countenance on the matter at the last. Howbeit I take indeed these two positions of yours to be very contumelious and injurious to the person and death of Christ, and no way justifiable by the sacred Scriptures. And therefore you had need look to your proofs, that they be sound; a needless reproach to the Son of God is some sin, I can tell you. 
r Ibid. li. 36.  [All which I avouch, because he undertook by God's ordinance as our Surety, to receive our condemnation upon him so far as his own●… nature and condition could possibly admit.] If vouching were proving, this matter were at an end; but it will cost more than hot liquor before all this be rightly concluded out of the Scriptures. You soak it out from a poor similitude of a Surety jointly bound with the Debtor to pay the whole and the v●…ry same, in which the Debtor is condemned; but the word of God will allow you no such Thraldom in Christ's suretyship, much less our whole Condemnation to be any way possible in his person. He discharged he whole from us, that is as well spiritual as eternal death, and satisfied for both by a just exchange; but he suffered neither of them, because the Son of God by no rule of God's justice could be void of grace, nor condemned to everlasting fire, as we most justly were. You did well therefore to bind your own Similitude to a Post, lest it should fall on the Rocks of open heresy and blasphemy; but your restraining of it, lest it should be both false & wicked, showeth the ●…tude to have no just ground in the word of God, though some Resemblance thereof may be tolerated, so long as i●… is not urged to conclude any more than the Scriptures confess. For similitudes in God's causes are so far al●…owed, as they are expr●… applied by the spirit of t●…h, and no ●…arder; otherwise by pretence of a Parable we may prove what we list: but you were best divide your Assertions, and so we shall the sooner dispatch them.  

s Defenc. pag. 75. li. 4.  Ag●…st my Ass●…on yo●… say, by no sent●…nce of the Law Christ hanged on a Tree.] I say so still. For the sentence of the Law pe●…mitting or prescribing men to ●…e hanged, touched no man besides the offender; and not him, but upon desert justly proved before them, that had the ex●…on of the Law in charge. ●…hus Christ was not hanged, but most injuriously overwhelmed with the out●…ies and tumult of the people, when the judge professed him innocent, as indeed he was before God and Man. 
t Ibidem. li. 7.  [I answer, to d●…e for sin, was a necessary part of the general Curs●… upon all sinners.] And I reply, you know not what you answ●…e. The Law of Moses appointed death to no Man by the course of nature, but by the violent hands of others, that were Magistrates. The Natural death, which followeth all men, was inflicted by Gods own voice on Adam in Paradi●…e as a punishment of sin, and is irrevocably inherited by all Adam's Children, not by the sentence of Moses Law, which came more than two thousand yee●…es after Adam's fall but by the order of God's Creation, which derived from the Parents to the Children the branches as well of obedience, as disobedience. The sentence of Moses Law Decreed not death against all offences, though it pronounced the Curse upon all; but against Idolaters, blasphemers, disobeyers of Parents, Murderers, Adulterers, and such like; to whom there were no Sacrifices prescribed, but death awarded. These two deaths then, a Natural by the hand of God on all men, and a violent by the hands of the Magistrate on some certain offenders, have difference enough a man would think; so that when the one is proposed, for you to run to the other, is a manifest fail in your answer, and a flat confession, that you can not prove, Christ was justly hanged by the sentence of the Law. And yet you mistake yourself even in that, to which you fly for help. For Christ was not subject by Nature, but only by will, to the death of the Body, because he was clear from actual and original sin by which death first entered into the world, and invaded all men. Now in the violent death which Christ received from public Authority by the sentence of Pilate, the judge perceived, a●…d not once nor twice pronounced him faultless, and when he could not otherwise appease the rage of the People, but by condemn●…ng Christ to death; Pilate 
u Mat●…h. 27.  took Water, and washed his hands before the Multitude, saying; I am innocent of the blood of this Just Man, look you to it. With what face then can you being a Christian avouch, that Christ was justly hanged by the sentence of the Law, when God so provided, that he, which gave the sentence, should often and earnestly witness the Contrary.  

x Defenc. pag. 75. i. 8.  What say you then to Christ's death? did he die justly? if he died by the rule of God's justice, than he died justly.] I say the longer you reason, the farther you stray from the 
Christ was ●…st and Innocent in his death.  Question and yet conclude nothing. God hath a double rule of his punishing justice, the one r●…aled, by which we must be governed; the other reserved to himself, which we must reverence, because it cannot be but just in him, though it be hid from us. The sentence of the Law is the revealed will of God's revenging justice, by that I utterly deny, that Christ any way deserved to be hanged. And thus much Saint Peter affirmeth, when he saith, 
y 1. Pet. 3.  Christ suffered; the just for the unjust, that he might present us to God. If Christ by Gods revealed will suffered justly, than Christ himself must be unjust. But if he were just, even when and as he suffered, then were his sufferings undeserved even by the sentence of the Law, which is the will of God prescribed us, that we must follow. Otherwise who can suffer as Martyrs or innocents, if we speak of God's secret justice, since he hath cause enough to deliver all men for their due deserts to death, when pleaseth him; though he be graciously content, that his servants shall die most innocently in respect of his will revealed, that is not for any offence, which their pursuers can justly challenge; and most gloriously, when they give testimony to his truth with their blood, who yet in his sight may not, nor can not justify themselves. This therefore is another leap of yours, to start from the sentence of the Law to the secrets of God's counsel; and most untruly and injuriously to pronounce men, that are sinners before God, to be innocents in their deaths; and Christ, that was truly innocent before God and man, to be justly hanged by the sentence of the Law.  
As you miss the Rule, so do you the justice of God's will; and that which you would make to be the curtain of your cause, I take to be the very puddle of your error. For where you would insinuate, that either Christ was justly put to death, or else God did unjustly deliver him to death, your ignorant abusing, or advised inverting the name of God's justice breadeth in you this sensible oversight. The Scriptures most truly confess, that 
z Psa. 145. v. 17  God is just in all his ways; not in punishing only men's offences, but in giving grace, forgiving sin, promising and performing life eternal; and generally whatsoever he doth, in him is just and holy. There is as great justice, that God should do 
a Matth. 20.  with his own what he will, as that he should repay men their deserts. For if we ascribe no justice to God, but in rewarding our works, than was he unjust in creating us of nothing, when we could deserve nothing: then is he unjust in saving us, when he condemneth others, since we deserved no better than others. Accursed be that mouth, and mind, which calleth or counteth the favour and love of God, wherewith he embraceth his; the grace and mercy, which he affordeth his; the glory and bliss, which he will give to his, to be unjust. Yet were none of these things deserved by us, though he be most just in giving what, and where pleaseth him. 
b 2. Th●…ss. 1.  It is a righteous thing (saith Paul) to recompense rest to you, which are troubled, and yet no way deserved. If 
c ●…. john 1.  we confess our sins he is faithful and just (saith john) to forgine us our sins. We need not wonder at this, how God is just in punishing sin, and also just in forgiving sin; he useth his right in the one, as master of his own, and repaieth men their deserts in the other, which is their due. 
d .  Since all the wa●…es of ●…he Lord (saith Austen) are mercy and truth, neither can his grace be vn●…, nor his justice be cruel.  
Can we then find how God is just in giving us good things, which we never me●…d, and do we stagger how he might be just in delivering Christ to corporal and 
.  external pains and death, which he never deserved? [It is no wrong (you say) for the L●…w to lay the penalty on the surety.] Much less was it unjust with God, to receau●… recompense for our sins at the hands of his own Son, who was willing and able to make it, when we were not. [But he must be guilty of our sins, before he could be justly punis●…d for our sins.] Who told you so? Your similitude of a Surety bound to see the debt discharged? Keep your bonds to hang abont your heels. A man may discharge another's debts, and bear another's burden, as well willingly and freely, as urged and arrested by the law. What justice hath man's law to accept the surety for the debtor, but the will of the offerer? How much more than was it a righteous thing with God to accept a satisfaction for our sins at the hands of his own Son, not because he was thereto bound, or any way guilty with us, but only because he was able and willing to bear our burden when we were weak; and rebate the rigour of God's vengeance by the innocency and dignity of his person, which was far above our power? For if amongst ●…en it be an honourable justice for the stronger to help the weaker, and the richer to relieve the poorer; and the less we be bound, as to our Enemies; the more willing, the more righteous: who that hath but one spa●… of Christian sense, will doubt whether it were most just with God, to admit the ransom which his own Son most willingly offered for us, when we were his Enemies; or will conclude that Christ must justly des●…e death, because he did willingly die for us? You see now what I say to Christ's death; he died most justly to God, because most willingly for us, and yet most undeservedly, because most innocently.  

e Defenc. pag. 75. li. 11.  If Christ died not by God's justice, than woe and thrice woe to us: for it can not be, but God's justice must be executed.] If God's justice against us were not satisfied by his Son, and so appeased, woe were it with us; but if any man be so mad headed, that either the Son of God, or himself must be everlastingly damned for the full execution of God's justice against sin, than woe indeed to that hellish infidelity; and blessed for ever be God's love and mercy towards us, that accepted the death of his Son for our sins, which Christ willingly off●…red as the price of our redemption, when he could by no sentence of the law be thereto bound. 
f john 10.  Therefore my Father loveth me (saith Christ) because I lay down my life (for my sheep). None taketh it from me, but I lay it down of mine own self. And so the Prophet foretold of him. 
g Es●…. 53.  If he will (or shall) lay down his soul (or life) for sin, he shall see his seed, prolong his days, and the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hands.  

h Defenc. pag. 75. li. 17.  What if (hanging on a tree) were no necessary part of the g●…erall curse? it was nevertheless just from God upon him, as well as his death.] Neither ●…th, nor hanging, nor any part of Christ's punishment was just from God, as deserved by Christ, either in respect of his nature, or of his office, but all was most just with God even on Christ in respect of Christ's own free willingness, to reconcile us to God with his death, rather than we should perish. And if both these were just in Gods secret Counsel, by reason of Christ's good liking so to ransom man, what is that to the sentence of the Law, which judgeth every man according to his works, and punisheth only the transgressor, out of which number Christ is excepted by the continual Caveats of the holy Scriptures. 
i Defenc. pag. 25. li. 26.  [Still I mean justly in respect of God alone.] And still I say justly in respect of Christ's willingness only, which is nothing to the sentence of the Law. For the law respecteth the evil desert of the Transgressor, and not the good will of the Redeemer or Surety.  

k Defenc. pag. 75. li. ●…0.  You mislike that Christ should suffer justly, because he suffered willingly for us; which hindereth not at all.] Since that was most just with God in his secret counsel, whereto his Son was most willing; I utterly misliked, as the whole Church of Christ before me did, that the Son of God should be thought to be bound to death, who must be most free; or deserving death by the sentence of the Law punishing sinners, because he was willing to bear our burden. And if you look well about you, you shall find the second person in Trinity undertook to ransom us from our sins, long before his manhood was borne, even from the foundation of the world; and to lay any band upon the Son of God, besides his own good will and pleasure, advise 
The second person in Trinity could not be bound but by his love to us ward.  you whether it tendeth. And since God would not have the death of Christ's manhood, but as a sacrifice most freely & willingly offered unto him for sin, lest there should appear any constraint or necessity laid on the person of Christ; let the Reader judge, with what truth you not only bind the second person in Trinity to be subject to the sentence of the Law, but taint the soul of Christ with the uncleanness of our sin because he suffered the punishment thereof in our steeds. 
l Defenc. pag. 75. li 32.  [The voluntary surety beareth his penalty justly, when he sustaineth that, which the Debtor by Law should sustain.] It is a penalty to patience to hear you talk so unwisely and unjustly of justice. Shall mercy and charity in Christians, that ease other men's shoulders, or pay other men's debts, be taken now with you for the just desert of a penalty? How much less than may the love and favour of God redeeming us with his own blood, and ●…aling us with his own strip●…s, be called a ●…ust and well deserved punishment? Man's law may exact the debt, where the Surety standeth bound to the ●…aw to see it satisfied. From one freely offering to pay another man's debts, the Law may justly receive it, because he is willing, but the Law cannot exact it, because he is at liberty; which is the true difference betwixt a Surety bound, and a free Ransommer; and yet neither is guilty of the prisoners offences.  

m Defenc. pa. 75. li. 33.  You say, no Law; you are sure, not God's law alloweth a murderer or like offender to be shared, and another that is willing, to be hanged in his steed.] You have all this while dallied with God's justice, you now begin to play with God's Law, that where truth fa●…th you, you may yet at least make some show with words, as all wranglers do, when they be driven to the wall; whereof the discreet Reader may take a sensible observation in this place. You have been spuddling here, and spending more than two leaves to proo●…e that Christ bore the true curse of the Law, which was due to us for sin, and that the Apostle speaking thereof (Galat. 3.) could have none other meaning; and therefore you resolved that Christ was hanged by the just sentence of the Law, which otherwise must light on us if it were not laid on him. What Law meant you all this while, or what Law doth Paul dispute of in that place? Not of that Law which accurieth and punisheth sin? That Law, I said, admitted no Sureties, but revenged the malefactors themselves, and therefore by the sentence of that Law Christ could not be justly accursed, or hanged in our steeds. Against this when you can say nothing, you get you to the Gospel of Christ, which proposeth glad tidings of our Redemption from the burden of our sins and from the curse of the Law by the most willing and innocent death of the Son of God for our sakes, and by that Law you say Christ might, and did die for us as our Surety. I ask the indifferent Reader, whether this be not a plain running from the question and a resigning of all that you have said before, touching t●…e ●…es accursing of Christ as our Suerti●…? For the Gospel I trust doth not pronounce Christ to be either accursed for our sins, or defiled with our sins, but showed him to be the blessed Seed, that bruised the S●…pents head; and the undefiled and unspotted Lamb, that took away the sin of the world, with his most innocent and precious blood. This shifting therefore, which is so usual with you, that as long as you can wrench a word, you will not yield to the truth, will break the neck of your cause in the end with all considerate Readers, howsoever it may content you for the time. But let us hear the rest.  

n Defenc. pag. 75 li. 38.  I answer it is not true, which you say, That God's Law alloweth no Suerti●…s. Understanding here by Gods revealed will, and his most holy and gracious ordinance for us. Though indeed this is not his Law properly, but his Gospel.] You lack here English as well as truth, except it be the Printers fault, and not yours Understanding here in your words hath nothing to follow it, I think you would say, Understanding h●… by God's Law, God's 
The Gospel differeth much from the Law.  revealed will, etc. I never made doubt whether the Gospel proposed the wonderful love, mercy, good will, and favour of God the Son towards us in offering himself to make the purgation of our sins in his own person; and likewise the wisdom, power, justice, clemency, grace and goodness of the whole Trinity in accepting that offer for our salvation; but such I said was the infinite dignity of the person, being true God, that he could by no Law be bound, but only led by his own good will and pleasure, as a voluntary and free Saviour. Which liberty the justice of God so far tendered and preserved in the human nature of Christ, that he could not in rigour exact death, as a debt from a Surety, but receive it, as a voluntary sacrifice from a willing and free Redeemer: for which cause, neither the desert of our 
Christ's death not eracted as a de●…t, but rece●…ue: as a voluntary sac●…ce.  punishment, nor the filth of our sinn●…s, nor the truth of our curse could cleave unto him: but his death was innocent and altogether undeserved though he died justly to God as well in ●…espect of us, for whom he suffered, who deserved far worse; as in regard of his own will and offer, who refused not the smart of death, thereby to break th●… chains of death, and to deliver us from the power of darkness. For the name of the law in general, how far that word might be stretched, I did not question, since you spoke directly of that law which accurseth and punisheth sin, as the Apostle doth, alleging in plain words both the curse and punishment of Moses law. Otherwise, I knew the Apostles words in this very Epistle: 
o Galat. 6.  Bear ye one another's burden, and so fulfil the law of Christ, which is, in liberty and 
p Galat. 5.  love to serve one an other, as Christ did us.  

q Defenc. pag. 7●…. li. 7.  No similitude (you say) can prove Christ in taking our person on him to be sinful, defiled, hateful and accursed. I deny this saying utterly.] I like your wit well, that when you should go to prove your affirmatives, you fall to deny my negatives. This is a short way to shun all pains and proofs, for you to say what you list, and when you deny the contrary, the matter is fully proved. But Sir you forget that my assertion hath in it the plain words of the Holy Ghost, and the main grounds of Christian religion, that Christ as well in his nature and actions as in his sufferings and sacrifice, was 
r Hebr. 7.  holy, harmless, severed from sinners and undefiled. This you utterly deny. If you make no more bones in denying the words of God, your Reader will as easily deny you to be a Christian, whatsoever I do. [
s Defenc. pag. 76. li. 26.  In his own nature, and in respect merely thereof, he suffered both at the jews hands and before God, the just for the unjust.] A fair gloze, and full against the text. When Christ died, was it for himself, or for us, that he suffered? He suffered not in any respect of or for himself, no not before God, and yet he 
t 1. Pet. 3.  suffered the just for the unjust, saith Peter. Which words Peter could not speak in respect of the jews, who killed Christ, for they took Christ to be most unjust, and they had no meaning, nor power to put him to death for the redemption of the world; but Peter speaketh this of Christ, who knowing himself to be just and innocent in the sight of God, was yet patient and willing, when he suffered for the unjust. By this example Peter often exhorteth the godly to follow Christ's 
u 1. Pet. 2.  steps, and to suffer wrong patiently, when they do well. For that is more acceptable to God, then when they are buffeted for their faults; because they are 
x 1. Pet. 3.  blessed, that suffer for righteousness sake, as Christ did. You turn the text clean contrary, and would have men believe, that Christ was not only sinful, accursed, and defiled with our sins, but the greatest sinner and most unjust person, that ever suffered, as guilty before God of all their sins for whom he died.  

y Defenc. pag. 76. li. 20.  Yet this is not inherently, but by imputation, the Lord translating by his ordinance the sin of men upon him.] Afore we enter to speak farther of the filthiness or guiltiness of sin inherent or imputed, and the malediction on either; I think it fit for the Reader 
How sin maketh men unclean.  to know what is contained in those terms, lest the Defender carry his conceits in a cloud, as his meaning and manner is to do. In sin, besides the averting of the will from God by defection, and hardening of the heart against God by rebellion, the love and affections of the soul, which should be inflamed with sincerity and purity of God's holiness and goodness, are wholly dejected, and eagerly fastened upon base, vile, vain and unclean things; and thereby the soul growing like to that which it loveth, (for love causeth a society and similitude with the things loved) b●…ommeth base, vile and unclean in all her delights, desires, parts and powers. Which impureness and pollution of the inward man, when God beholdeth, he rejecteth, hateth, and detesteth, as well this corruption inherent in the soul, as the deeds and acts of sin passed with us, but present still with him, and accusing us in his sight, by the witness of our own conscience, which we can not avoid. This when God setteth before the eyes of the wicked, letting them see what they have refused, and what they have embraced, and how deformed and defiled they are in comparison of his beauty and sanctity; as also what they have done against the light and leading of their own conscience, they fall ashamed of their uncleanness, and confounded with their guiltiness, finding the just vengeance of God to hang over their heads with a desperate and most dreadful expectation thereof. These things are not doubted by any good Divines, and therefore it shall suffice shortly to touch some places teaching no less than I have said. 
z Tit. 1.  To the unclean and unbelieving (saith Paul) nothing is cl●…, but even their minds and consciences are defiled. Of evil thoughts and deeds proceeding from the heart our Saviour-generally pronounceth; These are 
a Math. 15.  the things which defile a man. S. Peter saith of the wicked: They are led with 
b 2. Peter. 2. v. 12  sensuality, as bruit beasts, perishing in their corruption; and are not only spots and stains, but after they had escaped 
c 2. Peter. 2. v. 13.  from the 
d 2. Peter. 2. v. 20.  filthiness of the world, 
e 2. Peter. 2. v. 22.  turn again as swine to wallowing in the mire. This is the uncleanness of sin as well inherited from Adam, as increased by continual transgressing, which defileth the sinner, and cleaveth to the soul, till she be washed with the blood, and renewed by the spirit of Christ.  
The guiltiness of sin is double; in regard either of the sin committed, or of the punishment prepared. The 
f Rom. 2.  witness of our conscience privy to our doings, when our cogitations accuse us, and 
g 1. john 3.  our hearts condemn us, this is the conviction ●…hat God doth and will use in judgement; himself as greater than our hearts, not only knowing, but revealing the things 
h 1. Cor. 4.  hid in Darkness, and 
h 1. Cor. 4.  manifesting the Counsels of each man's hart. The guiltiness of punishment noteth the just deserving thereof by us, or the fast binding of us thereto by the rule of justice. 
i Gen 43.  If I bring not back thy Son unto thee, said judah to jacob his Father, I will sin unto thee every day; not meaning he would every day offer new offences to his Father, but that he would be guilty of that sin for ever. Whosoever shall eat this Bread, saith Paul, or drink this Cup of the Lord 
k 1 Cor. 11.  unworthily shall be guilty of the Body and blood of the Lord; that is, guilty of sinning against the Body and blood of the Lord. Now the workman is worthy of his reward, whether it be in good or evil; and therefore punishment is the wages of sin worthily deserved, or certainly reserved for sinners by the judgement of God. When the high Priest asked the Council touching Christ, 
l Matth 26.  behold ye heard his blasphemy, what think ye? They answered he is guilty of death, that is worthy to die, and so they 
m Mark. 14.  condemned him as WORTHY to die. Sometimes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is obliged, and assured of punishment, as 
n Mark. 3.  he that blasphemeth against the holy Ghost, shall never be pardoned, but guilty (that is assured) of everlasting condemnation.  
So likewise the true malediction of sin is triple. For as the true blessings of God 
The Curse for s●…nne is triple.  have three degrees; First, his love, which is the root of all our happiness, than his grace, which is the mean of having that, which is fit for this life, and of hoping for the rest; and lastly, his glory, which is the full fruition of the reward for his in the heavens: so the true Curse of sin, which is the deprivation of all true blessing, hath the same degrees; I mean, the loss of God's love, which is his hatred and detestation of sin; the lack of his grace, to know, like, or imitate his goodness in this life; and lastly the repulse from his kingdom with the terrible judgement, and eternal misery provided for the wicked.  
Come now to your Terms of sinful, defiled, and accursed; and see how well they 
Christ not defile with our sins.  agree to Christ. First, if the holiness of God were so great in his Person, as to purge our uncleanness, much more was it able to resist our Corruption, and to keep him from being defiled with our sins, from which he cleansed us. Again, if he were any way defiled with our sins, he must needs offer Sacrifice first for himself, and then for us. But this is quite repugnant to the Apostles Doctrine; who saith, Christ 
o Heb. 7. v. 27.  needed not to offer up (any such) Sacrifice for himself. Thirdly, if he were defiled by our sins, his office must defile him; his nature, nor Actions could not. That which was borne of the Virgin, was 
p Luke. 1. v. 35  HOLY, his life was innocent and just; 
q 1. Pet. 2  he did no sin, nor 
r 2. ●…or. 5.  knew no sin; his office was more holy then either of these. For these resisted sin, but his office cleansed sin. Now to cleanse others from sin, required more holiness, then to keep himself from sin. The one is the holiness of the Creature, the other of the Creator. And how should the Priesthood defile him, when the Sacrifice was holy, and undefiled? Christ 
s Heb. 9  offered himself without spot to God, saith the Apostle directly speaking of his Sacrifice. And Peter calleth him the 
t 1. Pet. 1.  Lamb unspotted and undefiled, which must be in respect of his Sacrifice. For he was the Lamb of God, 
u john. 1.  which took away the sins of the world. Else how could he be a 
x Ep●…. 5.  Sacrifice of a sweet smelling savour unto God, whose 
y Habac. 1.  eyes are pure, and can not behold wickedness, if he were any way unclean with his own, or with our sins? and if our sins could then defile him, or make him unclean, he is at this day sitting in the heavens, defiled & unclean. For we have the very same conjunction with him now that we had then, being members of his Body, as than we were, and he our head; and he still presenteth us to God, as than he did, and even by the virtue of those sufferings, which he sustained here on earth for us. So that his mediation is now by the power of that Passion, which he then endured, and if his assuming Sinners into his Body, or being the propitiation for our sins, could then touch him with any uncleanness, he can not be free from it at this present. But his Priesthood was holy then and undefiled, and so remaineth still both pure and perpetual. And if in the figurative Sacrifices of the Law, neither the P●…st, nor the Sacrifice were defiled with the sins of the People, but were sanctified and accepted, when the one did offer, the other was offered for sin; what ground of truth can it have, that the true, most holy, and acceptable Sacrifice for sin, which indeed purged the sins of the world, should defile either the Person of Christ, or his office, or his action in that oblation. Lastly since all pollution of Soul is inherent, which you grant was not in Christ, how should he be defiled, that had nothing in him, but holiness and righteousness, which I trust are not defiled? If Christ were not defiled with our sins, than was he not sinful. One sin defileth, how much more than doth the fullness of sin make Christ unclean, which is your devotion to the Son of God.  
I mean not inherently, but by imputation. [You mean he was defiled and sinful, not truly, but falsely. Did you speak of men, who err in their judgements, it might be borne; but when you speak of God, there is no imputation with him, but in truth; unless you will change the Apostles doctrine, 
z Rom. 3.  Let God be true, and every man a liar; and say, God must be a liar, afore you can speak truth in this behalf. God doth impute righteousness to us that be sinners, by pardoning our offences, and accepting us for Christ's sake, when of ourselves we are most unworthy; but uncleanness he doth not impute, where none is found, because he giveth freely by mercy, and condemneth justly by desert. The punishment of our sins Christ did willingly bear in his body, the guilt of our sins he did not, and that made his sufferings the more righteous, as being without desert or guilt. [Did God then wrong his Son in afflicting him?] he laid the burden of our iniquities on the body of Christ, who was willing to redeem our danger with his own death, and by the infinite dignity of his person able to support the one, and abolish the other: and that the rather because every part of Christ's manhood was holy and undefiled, and so by the rule of God's justice no part of him could be pressed with spiritual and eternal death. Which is a plain proof, that the guilt of our sins took not hold on him. For then as well spiritual as eternal death, which both are due to sin, must have fastened on Christ, which we see to be false: yea the death of the body could not wrest his soul from him, but he must lay it down of himself. And if the desert of a corporal death did not bind him, how should the guilt of eternal death be due to him, which was the ●…ust wages of our sin, but no way due to his person, since he did assume our sins to clear us from them, and not to subject himself to the guilt, or filth of our sin, though he were content to make full satisfaction for them, but not to defile himself with any pollution of them?  

a Defenc. pag. 76. li. 9  How could he be by God properly and truly punished and cursed for sin, but that he was sinful & hateful? Nay how could he either cleanse us, or reconcile us to God, if he were 
Christ could not cleanse v●…, of he were defiled by us.  sinful, & hateful to God as well as we? As we had Christ for our Redeemer, because we we●…e hated of God for sin, so if you bring Christ within the same danger & displeasure with God, he must have another to mediate to God for him. God respecteth not those whom he hateth; nor heareth any that is sinful, without some other to propi●…e for him. And where you quote Scriptures to uphold your wicked follies and phrases, they prove the clean contrary. 
b Ezech. 18. vers. 20.  The soul that sinneth, the same shall dic, saith God by Ezechiel. But Christ's soul did not die, either by want of grace, or loss of glory, which are the deaths proper to sinners. Christ's soul therefore by the very place which you cite, was not sinful. 
c Genes. 18. vers. 25  Shall n●…t the judge of all the world do right? said Abraham to God. What right is there meant, but that God will not destroy the righteous 
●… Vers. 23.  with the wicked, as Abraham's words before import? Since than Christ was not destro●…ed either in soul or body, but by death made conqueror of death, and a Saviour to all his what a venomous mouth have you to match him with the wicked, or to make th●…s destruction? And here the Reader may observe how religiously you wrest the Scriptures to reproach the Son of God; and where you can by no sufficient testimony prove Christ to have been sinful or hateful to God, as you d●…fend, when he died for our sins; you sort him with the reprobate and damned, and then ●…ge the Scriptures against him, that directly speak of them. I wish you to leave this lewd devotion, and not to think to shift off all this with a pretended imputation. Our sins God did impute, that is, impose on Christ, for ●…e b●…re them in his body on the ●…ee; but this was right with God, because Christ was both willing and able to bear them; and an honour to the human nature of Christ, to be lord over all his enemies for the short affliction, which he suffered at their hands; and Saviour of all believers for the submission and obedience, which he performed on the cross; in which Gods exceeding mercy towards us, and love towards him did most manifestly appear.  
Did not God then hate our sins, when he punished his own Son for them?] 
The lo●…e of God to hi●…●…onne ouer●…d his h●…red against ●…r sinn●….  If that ground of Christian religion could have contented you, that God thoroughly hated our sins, which Christ assumed, and yet so loved the person assuming them, that the favour he bore to the one, ouer-rul●…d his anger due to the other; and therefore after sharp chastisement on the person, lest we should think our transgressions to be lightly regarded with God, (and yet such, as the sufferer willingly re●…ued to maintain the justice of his Father) exalted him with infinite honour, and gave him all power in earth and heaven, and made him only Lord over all both men and Angels: If this confession of true Religion had pleased you, you never needed to have defiled your pen with these sinful, hateful, and accurs●…d terms. But ha●…ing itching ears, and humorous heads, you measure the greatest mysteries of our salvation, by the similitude and proportion of human reason and actions, and thence de●…iue according to your fantasies, that which Scriptures and Fathers do utterly disclaim.  

e Defenc. pa●…. 76. li. 11.  It is written, God sent his Son in the likeness of sinful fl●…sh for sin, and condemned sin in (his) flesh, in which likeness he stood before God. The Scripture teacheth, that Christ was made 
f Heb. 2.  like to his brethren in all things, and did partake with them in flesh and blood, but the same Scripture addeth 
g Heb. 4.  without sin. So that the likeness of sinful flesh excludeth all touch or taint of our sin, though it admit the likeness of our flesh in Christ. And indeed between his and ours, there was no difference, save the corruption of sin, which dwelleth in ours, and did not in his. You do therefore learnedly collect out of the Apostles words, that where he saith, Christ was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, for that he had true flesh, and no sin; you make Christ to be defiled and accursed with sin, for having the likeness of our flesh. But the Syriac translation saith, God condemned sin in (Christ's) flesh.] The condemning of sin in the flesh of Christ, was the cleansing and abolishing of sin by the body of Christ, which the Apostle calleth 
h Heb. 9 ve●…. ●…6. ●… 28.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the destroying and taking away of sin 
h Heb. 9 ve●…. ●…6. ●… 28.  by the sacrifice of him●…elfe. The text doth notsay, that God condemned Christ for sin, but contrary, that God condemned sin; that is, pardoned the guilt, weakened the power, removed the sting, and abandoned the memorial of all our sins for the obedience and patience, which Christ showed in his flesh. So that it is you, and not the Apostle, nor the Syriac translator, which would feign bring Christ within the compass of condemnation for sin, where they say quite otherwise, that not he, but sin was condemned, that is destroyed in or by his flesh. chrysostom saith rightly; 
k Chrysost. Ho●…. 13 ●…n Epist. ad Roman●….  Thou seest sin every where condemned, not the flesh, which was crowned, and obtained judgement against sin. And Austen taketh liberty to expound the Text against your Syriac translation. 
l Contra 〈◊〉. l●…●…. cap. 2.  By the similitude of sinful flesh, (saith he) which was Christ's, God condemned sin in the flesh of sin, which was ours.  

m Defenc. pag. 76. li. 14.  God made him sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.] Other men read the Scriptures, to learn thence all thanks, submission, and service to the Son of God, for his unspeakable love and mercy towards us, in taking the burden of our sins, and laying it on his own shoulders. You thrash and winnow the Scriptures to catch up chaff to cast in his face. And though there be never so many old and new writers, that would lead you to the true sen●…e of these words, you leave them all, and will needs by wilful abusing the Scriptures have Christ to be sinful and defiled, hateful and accursed even to God, for taking upon him to purge us from our sins. I showed you the judgement of Austen and Ambrose in my conclusion for the right understanding of these words, but you satisfied with nothing, save with your own sense, pas●…e surly by them, and the rest as 
n Defenc. pa. 76. li. 37.  multitudes of men, and prefer the proud conceit you have of yourself, before them all. Yet for the Readers sake that he may settle his judgement with truth and sobriety; he shall see the consent of all ages and writers, how Christ was made sin for us, and how he condemned sin in the flesh. Origen, 
o Origen. li. ●…. in 8. cap. epist. ad Romanos.  that Christ was made the sacrifice for sin, and offered for the cleansing of sins, all the Scriptures witness: touching this sacrifice of his flesh, it is said, he condemned sin in the flesh, as the same Apostle else where saith, he appeared in the later times to destroy sin. By this sacrifice then of his flesh, which was offered for sin, he condemned sin, that is, he chased sin away, and abolished it: Cyrill, 
p Cyrill. epist. ad 〈◊〉 d●…●…pro 〈◊〉.  Christ is therefore made according to the Scriptures a sacrifice for sin. For this cause we say, he is called sin at self: for so Paul writeth: Him that knew no sin, God the Father made sin for us. We do not say, that Christ was made a sinner, God forbid: but being just, yea justice itself, the Father made him a sacrifice for the sins of this world. jerom, 
q Hiero. in 2. ad Corinth. cap. 5.  the Father made Christ, who knew not sin, to be sin for us; that is, as the sacrifice offered for sin, is called sin in the Law. In Leviticus it is written. He shall lay his hand on the head of his sin; So Christ being offered for our sins, took the name of sin. Augustine, 
r August ●…tra 〈◊〉 li. 2. ca 2.  Christ then did no sin, but God made him sin for us: that is as I have said, a sacrifice for sin. For if thou remember, or wilt read, thou shalt find in the books of the old Testament, the sacrifice for sin to be called sin. Again, God then 
s Id●…m contra Pelag. & 〈◊〉 de p●…cato origi●…. li. 2. ca 32.  made Christ sin for us, that is a sacrifice by which our sins should be remitted, because sacrifices for sin are called sin. And so in the questions upon Numbers. It is said (he shall offer a Lamb) for a sin, because that which was offered for sin was called sin. Whence it is, that the Apostle saith of the Lord Christ; him that knew no sin, God the Father made sin for us, that is a sacrifice for sin. He that will see this more at large repeated and confirmed, let him read at his leisure Saint Austen 120. Epistle cap. 30. the third book, and 6. Chapter, against the two Epistles of the Pelagians: his Enchiridion, cap. 41. besides the seventh Sermon De verbis Apostoli, and the 48. Sermon, De verbis Domini secundum joannem, which I formerly alleged. Oecumenius, the sacrifice, which is offered for sin, is called sin, as the Prophet saith, they eat the sins of my people, that is the sacrifices for sin. So the Father made the Son a sacrifice to be offered for sins. Primasius likewise, 
t Pri●… i●● 5 cap. 2. ad Corinth.  the sacrifice for sin is in the Law called sin, though it did not sin; as it is written; and he shall lay his hands on the head of his sin. So Christ being offered for our sins, took the name of sin. 
u Sedulius i●… 〈◊〉 loc●….  Sedulius observeth the same words. Beda 
x ●…eda in 8. ca epist. add Romans.  Our Redeemer was made sin, that we might be the righteousness of God in him. How? In the Law the sacrifices, which were offered for sin, are called sin. When the offering was brought for sin, the Law saith, the Priests shall put their hands upon the sin, that is upon the sacrifice for sin. And what else was this, but Christ the (true) sacrifice for sin? Behold by what sin he condemned sin; by the sacrifice, which he made for sin, even thereby he condemned sin. To skip Haymo, Lyra and others, the eleventh Council of Toledo in the confession of their faith. 
y Concili●… Tolet. 11. i●… confess. 〈◊〉.  Christ in the form of man, which he assumed, is according to the truth of the Gospel believed to have been borne without sin, and to have died without sin; who alo●… was made sin for us, that is the sacrifice for our ●…innes.  
The new writers bear even with the old: To omit, Erasmus, Bullinger, Peter Martyr, Musculus, Gualther, Vitus Theodorus, and others, who do follow the same steps; Aretius upon these words God by sin condemned sin in the flesh, that is saith he: 
z 〈◊〉. 8. epist. ad Romanos.  All our sin in our flesh, God condemned by or for sin, to wit by or for the Sacrifice appointed for sin. Now Christ is the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world; this Lamb is called sin, because in the Law the sacrifices are called the sin for which they are offered. Hence is it that Christ, who knew no sin, was made sin by his Father. Beza in his notes on the New Testament, and on those words: Him that knew no sin, God made sin; saith: Paul 
a Beza in ●…. ca 2. epist. ad 〈◊〉.  calleth sin in this latter place, the sacrifice for sin, after a manner of speech proper to the Hebrews, with whom the word Ascham is so taken as Leviticus 7. 2. Tremelius the publisher and interpreter of your Syriack Testament, observeth the like upon the same place: Him that knew no sin, he made sin for you: that is, a 
b Tr●…melij obser●… it in 2 ad Corinth. 5. v. 21.  sacrifice for sin, which every where in the bible is called Chattath; by which name sin also is called: The book of Homilies authorised in this Realm holdeth so fast to this exposition, that it setteth it down in the Apostles name, as the Apostles true meaning. S. Paul likewise saith: 
c The second Se●…mon of the Passi●…n. p●…. 5.  God made him a sacrifice for our sin, which knew no sin, that we should be made the righteousness of God in him.  

d Defence pag. 76. li. 18.  The Apostle farther saith, the second time Christ shall appear without sin, meaning that the first time he appeared with sin.] Put the Apostles words uttered in the same place, touching Christ's first appearing with sin, to these which you cite, and the sense is plain and easy of itself. 
e Heb 9 v 26.  In the end of the world Christ appeared once, to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself, and 
f Ibid. v. 28.  unto them that look for him, he shall appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Christ's first appearing was with sin; that is, either with an offering for sin, or with the infirmity, tentation, mi●…erie and mortality 
How Christ shall the second time appear without sin.  of sin (for such was the time of his humility, when he came to purge sin by the oblation of his body): the next time of his appearing shall be in glory, that is, without either sacrifice for sin, or any other infirmity of sinners. For sin applied to Christ in the Scriptures may receive a triple interpretation, as Austen observeth; and yet none of them maketh Christ sinful, hateful, or defiled, which is your unclean doctrine. 
g August. c●…ntra duas Epist. Pelag. li. 3. ca 2  We affirm (saith Austen) that Christ had no sin neither in soul nor fl●…sh, and yet in taking flesh after the liken●…sse of sinful flesh, by sin he condemned sin. Which being somewhat obscur●…ly spoken by the Apostle, may be two ways opened: either because the similitudes of things use to be called by the names of the things themselves; and in that respect the Apostle would call the similitude of sinful flesh, Sin: or else because the sacrifices for sins in the Law were called sins; all which were the figures of Christ's flesh, the true and only sacrifice for sin. A third way is, that the punishment of sin is 
h August. contra 〈◊〉. li. ●…4. ca 4.  after a sort called sin, as being a consequent to sin, which S. Austen before testified; and in that respect, as well mortality, as all other miseries and infirmit●…s, that invaded man's nature for sin, may be called sin, that is, the effects of sin. The wrongful and shameful death of Christ, chrysostom, Theodoret, Theophylact, and others, take to be the punishment of our sins in the flesh of Christ, and in that regard they think Christ was made sin, that is, punished as a sinner, though he were innocent and righteous. 
i Chrysost. in 5. ca 2. Epist. ad Corinth.  Him that was righteousness itself, God made sin, that is, he suffered him to be condemned as a sinner, and to die as one accursed; for accursed was he that hung on a tree. Christ, saith Theodoret, 
k Theodor. in 8 ca E●…ist. ad Romanos.  when he had fulfilled all righteousness, and not admitted any blemish of sin, and yet as a sinner sustained the death of sinners, he reproved the injustice of sin, that delivered his body to death no way deserving it, and dissolved both sin and death. Theophylact, as his manner is, followeth chrysostom almost word for word: 
* Theophylact. in 5. ca 2. Ep●…st. ad Corinth.  The Son who knew no sin, and was righteousness itself, the Father made to die for us, as if he had been a sinner and malefactor. S. Austen joineth with them: 
l August. de verb●… Apost. ●…rm. 14.  Christ had the similitude of sinful flesh, because his flesh was mortal, sin●… ullo omnino peccato, but utterly without any sin, that by sin for similitude, he might condemn the sin that is in (our) flesh, through true iniquity. True iniquity in Christ there was none, mortality there was. Peccatum non suscepit, sed poenam peccati suscepit. Suscipiend●… sin●… culp●… poenam, & poenam sa●…it, & culpam. Christ took not (our) sin unto him, he took the punishment of (our) sin. And taking the punishment without any fault, he healed both the punishment and the fault. I leave the Reader to his choice, which of these he will embrace, or whether he will conjoin them all together; (for the one impugneth not the other) they all impugn the Defenders false collections, and lewd surmises out of these places, that Christ, when he is called sin, is intended by the Scriptures to be defiled with our sins, and hateful to God, and accursed of him for our sins, which the Church of Christ did never endure to hear.  

m Defenc. pag. 76. li. 16.  Master Calvin warily enough saith, Vt personam nostram suscepit, peccator erat, & maledictionis reus. As Christ took upon him our person, he was a 〈◊〉 and guilty of the curse.] I had rather you had commended Master Calvin's wisdom to join with the whole Church of God in giving Christ his due, than his wariness in going a by-way, without all the learned and Catholic fathers, to hem Christ within the guilt of our sin and curse. Master Calvin truly I honour for his great gifts, and pains in the Church of God; but I may not take him for the first founder of Christian religion, and therefore where he dissenteth from the worthy Pillars of Christ's Church in matters of Doctrine, I descent from him. And I more commend his wariness elsewhere, and think it fit, that when his speech soundeth somewhat hard, or offensive 
Hard speeches should rather be qualified then strained to the highest.  to the Godly, it should be expounded by other places of his writings, lest you make him in so weighty points, as these are, very inconstant, or very inconsiderate. This therefore, which you bring, I interpret by none other than himself, using the very same words, of the very same matter, in his Commentaries upon the very next Epistle of Saint Paul before this, which you quote. You shall have it in Latin, because you shall see how he qualifieth these very words, which you would press to your advantage. 
n calvinus in 5. cap. 2. epist. ad Corinth.  PERSONAM nostram QVODAMMODO suscepit, ut reus nostro nomine fieret, & tanquam peccator iudicaretur, non proprijs sed alienis delictis: quum purus foret ipse, & immunis ab omni culpa, paenamque s●…biret nobis, non sibi debitam. Christ took unto him our Person AFTER A SORT, that he might be accused (or judged) in our Name, and condemned as it were for a Sinner, not for any of his own offences, but other men's, since he himself was pure, and FREE FROM ALL FAULT (or guilt,) and suffered the punishment due to us, not to him. Take these mitigations from Master Calvin's own mouth, and then your labour is lost in putting his words to the Rack; and these are far truer, than your whirlegigges set running by the business of your Brain. Christ was AFTER A SORT A SINNER, (Saith calvin) that is Christ presented the Persons and procured the cause of us ●…at were sinners, and was guilty, that is, accused, condemned, or punished in our steeds. Re●… doth not always import an offender, if you know what Latin meaneth, it noteth one ●…uius res agitur, whose cause is handled, or brought into judgement, whether he be guilty, or innocent. And when it goeth farther than judicial inquisition, it may be applied either to the fault which is convinced; or to the judgement, which is decreed; or to the punishment, which is deserved, or appointed. And so the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greek (which the new Testament useth for guilty, or worthy of, or subjecteth to punishment,) is as much as fast held either by the Crime committed, or by the sentence pronounced, or by the punishment prepared and assured. Thus you see Calvin's words limited by himself, make nothing for you, and howsoever you rack the word Reus, you may not thereby bring Christ to be defiled, or hateful with our sins, except mercy, humility, and charity by your learning defile the Son of God, and make him hateful to his Father.  
Even 
o Defenc. pag. 76. li. 22.  as by God's true and real imputation, not by any i●…hesion, we now in this life are just, holy, and blameless before God; so was he sinful and defiled by Imputation, not inherently.] This is neither the Apostles speech, nor sense; it is your soone-come and soone-gone gathering from the Apostles words. The one is the cause of the other, but the one is not in all points proportioned to the other. God made him Sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him; Thus speaketh the Apostle. Omit Christ's Sacrifice for sin, whereby our sins were pardoned and purged, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, by the remitting of all our sins, and the restoring us to the favour of God; and grant these words, that our sins were imputed to him, that his righteousness might be imputed to us, which yet are not the Apostles words; where is the proportion you so confidently speak of, that as we are made his righteousness, so he was made our sin? This comparison unlimited it notor●…ously false; and were it true, it everteth all your frame. The full and everlasting 
The Apostle maketh th●… a consequent, not ●… comparison.  reward of his righteousness is allotted to us. Was the wages of our sins so imposed on hi●…? His righteousness is now imputed to us, because it shall be perfectly inherent in us, and is presently sealed unto us by the spirit of adoption, whereby our hearts are inherently sanctified. Were our sins so imputed to him, that they should afterward perfectly possess him? To us God imputeth Christ's righteousness without our consents, and often without our knowledge, as in children baptised. Were out sins imputed to Christ without his understanding or will? In us God hateth out sins, and ioveth our persons for Christ's sake. To keep this comparison, will you say that God hated the righteousness of Christ, and loved the sin imputed to him for our sakes? And were there not so many differences in the manner of Christ's having our sins, and our having his righteousness, as there are; yet are you no whit the nearer. For as we no way deserve to be his righteousness, so he no way deserved to be our sin. And though God forget all our sins, and putteth them utterly out of his sight, when he washeth us from them; yet God did not wholly cast Christ's righteousness out of his remembrance, when he did punish him for our sins. Christ therefore took our sins from us, and laid them on himself; but he doth not take his righteousness from himself to give it to us, but doth impart it to us, as having enough for himself and for us, because he is God as well as man. So that all our sins were imputed to him to make us just; yet all his righteousness is not imputed to us to make him a finner, as you would have him; but he bore the punishment of our sins, which the Apostle calleth sin, that we might receive the reward of his righteousness, not in cogitation or computation only, but in deed and execution. For even in this life, where we a●…e continual sinners, we have no righteousness, but what is joined with the real remission of our sins pardoned for Christ's sake, and with the grace of God's spirit purifying our hearts by faith, and inflaming them with the love of God's goodness and mercy towards us. Our righteousness then in Christ hath more than imputation, though imputation be also needful; it hath the seal of God's spirit possessing our hearts, and the inherent graces of faith and love, which God accepteth at our hands, and thereby maketh us partakers of Christ's righteousness, for that we believe in the name of his only Son.  

p Defenc. pag. 76. li. 29.  Whereas you say the Fathers have two good senses of the Apostles words, (Christ was made sin for us) the one, That God made Christ a sacrifice for sin, the other, That God used him, As he doth sinners, what is there in both these, which we acknowledge not? Yea what is this later, but the very same point, which we urge?] You admit both, and yet understand neither, as you ought to do. If you acknowledge the death and 
.  blood of Christ to be the true and only sacrifice for sin, then must you acknowledge these three things in it: that it was pleasing to God, undefiling the Priest, and elensing the sinner. If as well the oblation, as the offerer were holy and acceptable to God, why do you defend, that Christ was sinful and hateful in his sufferings for sin, which was the sacrifice, that he offered for sin? If it cleansed the offender, how could it de●…ile the sacrificer, who was the Mediator to God for abolishing sin? you will have one and the same sacrifice to be holy, acceptable, and available for sin; and yet to be defiled, hateful, and accursed with sin; you may call 
* Esay 5.  ligh●… darkness, and good evil, and think the prophet denouneeth no woe to you, because your inventions are privileged. But to mine understanding, and I think to your Readers, these plain contrarieties of holy and defiled, acceptable and hateful, righteous and sinful, in one and the same sacrifice and sufferer, at one and the same time will not stand together, but you must be colted or cursed in your warbling con●…its.  

q Defenc. pa. 76. li. 33.  It is nothing else in all this Question that we held, but that God used Christ our Redeemer and Surety, As he doth sinners, so far As possibility admitteth.] You never want an As, to help you at need. You hear the Fathers say, (for of their sense you speak) that God permitted the wicked to reproach his Son, and to put him to a shameful and cruel death, as if he had been the vilest malefactor amongst the multitude; thence you collect that God punished Christ, As he doth sinners, that is with the greatest and sorest torments of death and damnation, that are in this life or in hell. But this As doth rather plunge you into the mire, then pluck you out of it, and therefore you add so far as possibility admitteth. Now how far that is, by whom shall we be tried? by the Scriptures and Fathers, or by your shallow conceits and fancies? you have been told often enough, that where the Scriptures make three kinds of death due to sinners, and for sin; the death of the body, the death of the soul, and the second death, which is the everlasting torment of body and soul in hell fire; and all the learned and Catholic Fathers hold the same confession; the two last deaths spiritual and eternal, are not only impossibilities, but horrible blasphemies to be ascribed to the person of Christ; and to either of these, you would not yet speak one word, but by stealth. Now you have gotten hold of a double As, saying that God used Christ, As he doth sinners, so far As possibility admitteth, you think yourself safe: and out of this As, you will frame us new deaths of the soul, a new Hell, and all the same, which the damned do suffer in substance, not in circumstance. But we have long looked for your proofs, and till they come, tie up your As to serve you for another turn.  

r Defenc. pag. 76 li. 35.  For this the Fathers are not silent, if I were so ambitious as you in producing multitudes of men. Only Cyprian, and Athanasius and Austen shall content me in this.] Whether my care to teach nothing touching matters of Faith, but what I see confirmed by the 
You would no●… fa●…e to cit●… Fathers, if yo●… had the●….  Scriptures, and confessed by the writings of the Ancient Fathers, may be called Ambition, I leave it to the Reader: my pains have been the more therein, which if any condemn, I refer the Cause to him, that judgeth justly. But if it be Ambiti●…, to let the Reader see, that I follow the steps of so learned and approved Teachers, what is it for you, being I trust no more than a Man, to devise a new Salvation & a new Redemption, which neither Scriptures nor Fathers either professed or published? howbeit if these three Fathers, whom you name and mean to cite, make any way for your n●…w found fancies, they shall content me also, so you do not piece out their Texts with your untruths, for than you allege not them, but yourself under their shadows.  

s Defenc. pag. 66. li. 38.  The first (who is Cyprian) saith; Christ sustained and suffered himself to be called sin and a curse by Moses and the Apostle, because he had the like punishment, as we should have had b●…t not the like fault.] Cyprians words we have already once heard, and once answered; there the Reader shall find them more at large; they make nothing for you, but rather against you. For first it is evident by Cyprians sentence, that Christ was call●…d sin, and a curse by Moses and the Apostle, not for any guilt or fault derived from us, but only by reason of the likeness of punishment with those, that were sinners and accursed. Then was not Christ defiled or sinful by sustaining our person o●… cause, for so much as he had no likeness, nor communion with our sin, but only with our punishment. Now the punishment which Christ suffered could not defile him, but rather commend his obedience, patience, and charity towards God and man. [But he had the like punishment, as we should have had.] Likeness as well consisteth in the part, as in the whole; and if it were but like, than was it not the same; except you have forgotten as well the rules of reason, as of truth. Nullum simile est id●…m. Nothing is like to itself. If then it were like, it was not the same. What get yo●… now by Cyprians words, or what do I lose by them? [
t Defenc. pag. 77. li. 3.  Your slight answer, that it was like in part, not in all, salu●…th not the matter.] It pleaseth not your affection, but it fully removeth your objection; and the truth of it is most manifest. For if Christ's punishment were in all points like, as we should have had for our sins, you know well enough by this t●…e, how lewd and false that Assertion is, which you would sow unto Cyprian. And therefore as likeness in part i●… su●…cient to verify Cyprians words, so doth it justify his speech to be sober and sound, which you would have to be ●…ous and impious. Cyprian 
u Ibidem. li. 4.  meaneth Christ's punishment was so like ours, as wa●… possible.] We talk of Cyprians words, which are extant, not of his meaning, which you know not, and would fa●…ne force to be like to yours. This is a poor reply, when you can say nothing out of Cyprians words against mine exposition of them, for which I yield so just ground; to fly to your own imagination of Cyprians meaning, which yet is false and foolish. For it was possible (if we respect nothing but possibility, omitting God's Counsel and Decree) for Christ to have suffered longer time, and other sorts of bodily pains, as fire, flaying, and such like at the jews hands; so that your possibility was no part of Cyprians meaning, but a waterish device of your own to frame Cyprians words to your fancy.  

x Defenc. pag. 77. ●…. 6.  Al●… by this your we●…ke answer you are contrary to yourself, in that you acknowl●…dge God used Christ, as he doth sinners. Well you may devoutly dream of Contrarieties, but your eyes dasle too much, to see them truly. Doth every adverb of Similitude with you make a full and perfect Resemblance in all points? 
y Matth. 10.  I send yo●… saith Christ, as sheep among W●…lues. Will you put horns and hair upon Christ's Disciples to make them as sheep? 
z Psal. 19  The Sun, saith David, cometh forth as a Brid●…groome out of his Chamber, and rejoiceth, as a migh●…e Man to run his Course. Will you build a Chamber for the Sun, and allow him two feet and ten toes, that he may leap and run his race, like a man? 
a 1. Pet. 2.  As new borne babes, saith Peter, d●…ire th●… sincere m●…ke of the word. Will you bring men back to their Cradles, swaddling clo●…ts, and the teats of their Mothers, that you may verify this simil●…tude in them? There can nothing be more senseless, absurd, and false, then to require every Similitude or Comparison to be full and per●…ct in all points. Throughout the Scriptures, any one thing, that is common to many, or any resemblance of that, which an other hath, ●…rueth to frame thence a Comparison or similitude. So that any one pun●…shment inflicted on Christ, which Gods Law threateneth to sinners, was suff●…cient to make good my words, th●…t God used Christ, as he doth sinners. How then do you conclude from my speech; that Christ was used in all things, as sinners are both here, and in hell? or that God laid on him punishment so l●…ke to that, which we should have had, as was possible? T●…e it is, though not by any force of my words alleged by you, that God by his secr●…te o●…dinance l●…id on his Son not only the common Infirmities of man's Nature, and miseries of man's life, but also shame, reproach, pain and death, which are by his Law rese●…ued, and threatened to sinners; but touching the death of the Soul, or true pains of hell, which all this while you fish for, you find nothing in my words, nor in any of these Fathers, whose names you abuse.  

b Defenc. pag. 77. li. 8.  Athanasius saith, Ipseper se sententiam soluit s●…b specie condemnati: He himself satisfied and 〈◊〉 the sentence of the Law, under the 
* .  appearance of a DAMN●…D Love. Did not God then use him, as he doth sinners, in all extremity of punishment so far as was possible?] You do wisely not to be 〈◊〉 in producing multitudes of Men. as you call them: for you do but shame yourself, and sink your cause, when you co●…e to show the grounds of your Doctrine by the test●…monies of ancient Fathers. As they say nothing for you, so you understand nothing in them, no not the coherence, or force of th●…ir words, or sentences. It is no small matter, that here you undertake out of Athanasius, to prove in Christ the appearance of a DA●…D MAN, which by and by you interpret to be all extremity of punishment used by God to sinners, so far as was possible, the pains of the damned not excepted I would gladly ask you, whether you purpose to cite places as you find them, to seek out the truth, or only profess to pick out here and there a word to make you avail to hide your head for shame. You marvel what I mean, I will soon tell you. You allege but four words out of Athanasius, besides Prepositions and Pronouns, and in them you commit five notable faults, and three of them gross, wilful, and wicked corruptions. Sententiam, you call, the sentence of the Law; Where Athanasius expressly noteth the sentence, which God gave against Adam for eating of the forbidden fruit: Soluit, you interpret, he satisfied; where the word is, he loosed or dissolved it: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, you translate under the appearance; Athanasius meaning the substance of man's soul and body, which he calleth the form of man: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, you render, of a Damned man, applying it to Christ for some countenance to your cause, in laying the pains of the damned on the soul of Christ; where Athanasius speaketh that word of Adam, that was condemned for sin, in whose substance or form Christ appeared, that is a true man, to dissolve the sentence given against Adam, when he was first condemned. And that which is most intolerable, where Athanasius in the same sentence the very next words, expressly addeth, that Christ was altogether untouched either with condemnation, or with sin, to show that he meant Adam in the former word of condemnation, you purposely skip and neglect that which should lead you to the truth of his speech, and directly against his plain and manifest words, you refer Damnation to Christ, as if in spite of Athanasius, though he earnestly and openly profess the contrary, you would wrest his words to dishonour and bely Christ, and make the Reader believe, that some before you had ascribed damnation unto Christ. But be ashamed of these monstrous falsifications if you have any shame in you; or if not, your Reader will soon perceive, what cause it is you have in hand, that must be upheld with such hateful forgeries.  
Athanasius doctrine is very sound and good, though you will not acknowledge it, 
What Athanasius speaketh of Adam, the Defender referreth to Christ.  that Christ in his own person, taking our human nature unto him, dissolved the sentence, that he gave against Adam, when he condemned him for transgressing: and by his body dead and laid in the grave, he freed our bodies from the power of corruption, and with his soul descending into hell, he quited our souls from all the right and power, that hell had over us by sin. This while Athanasius mindeth to express, he saith; He that examined (adam's) disobedience, and gave judgement; comprised a double punishment in his sentence; saying to the earthly (part) earth thou art, and to earth thoushalt return; and to the soul, thou shalt die the death; and thereupon man is divided in twain, and condemned to go unto two places; (to wit, his body to the grave, and his soul to hell.) 
c Athanasius de Incarnation●… Christi.  It was therefore needful, that the pronouncer (of that sentence) should himself, by himself dissolve his own sentence, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, appearing in the form (or substance) of him, that was condemned, but yet without either condemnation or sin, that the freedom of the whole man might be (wrought) by man in the newness of the image of the Son (of God). I shall not need to prove, that 
d Philip. 2. v. 6. & 7.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the substantial form as well of God, as of man; the Apostle applieth it to both; and Athanasius in this very place saith. 
e Athanas. ut supra.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The form of his own soul unsubiected to the bands of death, Christ sent present before them; and so again Christ 
e Athanas. ut supra.  delivering us, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in his own perfect and true form●… (or substance) answerable to ours. This could you not choose but see, if either you perused Athanasius himself, or the very 
f Defenc. pag. 17. ●…d marg. li. 8.  page 181. of my conclusion, which you cite, and whence you took this authority; where it is evident by the full words of Athanasius in the same sentence, that Christ was clear from sin and uncondemned, and that man was the person condemned for sin; which you could not miss without infinite negligence, or inexcusable blindness.  

g Defenc. pag. 77. l. 15.  Austen we saw a little before.] We saw his name, as now we do, but we saw no words of his, that any way made to your purpose. He saith; Accursed is all sin, whether it be the deed (deserving) or the punishment (deserved) which is called sin, because it cometh (by or) from sin. And likewise that Christ received our punishment without sin, that thereby he might dissolve our sin, and end our punishment. Truly accursed is sin, and the punishment inflicted on the of●…ender for sin abiding without remission or repentance; otherwise punishment after sin remitted, as in the godly; or without desert of sin, as in Christ; is not a true curse separating from God, not from the true blessings of God, which make us certainly and everlastingly happy: but it is a curse depriving us of external and corporal blessings, which God of his bounty first bestowed on the life of man, and often recalleth for trial of obedience, and chastising of disobedience, as also for preventing occasions of sin, and avoiding of greater vengeance, if we should be suffered to walk secure and careless in the ways of our hearts. Christ then received a curse for us, which in him was the chastisement or punishment of our sin; yet as he no way deserved it, so was it not destruction, which lighteth on the wicked for their wilful persisting in sin, but a proof of his obedience, and a full satisfaction for our offences, respecting his person that suffered it, who was God and Man, and is by Saint Austen called our Punishment, as well for the cause, which was wholly ours, as for the likeness it had with the punishments provided for us in this life, where Christ suffered; and not in hell, where Christ could not suffer. 
h Dio●…i. de Diuin●… Nom●…nibus. cap. 4.  It is no evil (in itself) to be punished, but to deserve punishment. And so Basil. 
i P●…sal. H●…mil. 9 quod Deus non sit Author 〈◊〉.  The true evil is sin, whose end is destruction; that which seemeth evil with afflicting (or grieving) the sense, hath the force of good in it.  

k Defenc. ●…ag. 77. li. 17.  Your former sense that Christ was a sacrifice for sin, how differeth it from your second, that he was punished for our sins?] With you it may be a question, with me it is none. For though they were both joined in Christ's sufferings, yet that is no reason to take away their difference. In the sacrifice, which Christ of●…ered unto God for the sins of the world, himself was the Priest and the Offerer, and by his willing obedience, 
In his Sacrifice to God, Christ was a willing offerer: in his Martyrdom from men he was a patient sufferer.  submitting himself to his Father's will, made a recompense for our sin, which we could not do. In his Martyrdom, he was a patient sufferer of that, which the jews with cruel and wicked rage wrongfully laid on him, when he was delivered by God's determinate counsel into their hands. Now between his patient suffering from men, and willing offering to God, there is some difference, if you could see it, though they were both coupled in his death. [they both prove directly and necessarily, that he must be indeed sinful by imputation.] The one proveth that he bore our sins in his body on the tree, but by no means, that he was guilty of them: the other showeth, that he cleansed our sins, and so was no way defiled with them. [How could he be truly punished for sin by God, but that he was sinful by imputation?] Because he was most willing and able to make recompense to God for our sins by the dignity and innocency of his person, which we could not. And who but you concludeth a Mediator 
A Mediator ●…ot g●…iltie of the sin for which he ●…th mediate.  and Redeemer to be guilty of their sins, for whom he maketh mediation and Redemption? If a man entreat pardon for a thief or a traitor, upon repentance, and satisfaction for the wrong; shall he by your Divinity be a thief and a traitor, as well as the prisoner? If it were not lawful for Princes to pardon, than were it unlawful for others to ask it: but in af●…oording mercy, where repentance is promised, and none wronged, Princes show the power and right of their sword in God's steed, as well to accept the penitent, where they please, as to revenge the obstinate. Shall it not then be much more just with God, in whose only will and hand is the supreme power of all things, to release his wrath, and pardon his prisoner upon repentance, and recompense offered to his justice?  
How can any suffer at God's hand, except he be reputed sinful?] For such as were his own, Christ might suffer, and be no way touched with any guilt of their sin, but rather accepted with God, and honoured with men for the greatness of his mercy and charity. And if he be no good shepherd, that flieth to save his own life, and leaveth his flock to the wolf; but the goodness of a shepherd is tried, as our Saviour saith, by venturing his life for his sheep; how cometh it into your brains, to make Christ a sinful and hateful shepherd for giving his life for his sheep? 
* 1. john. 3.  We ought, saith Saint john, to lay down our lives for (our) brethren. Shall that wrap us us within the guilt of other men's sins, or rather commend our obedience to God, when we venture our lives, our duties so requiring, to prevent other men's harms? [But God himself, you will say, doth not punish in this case; and therefore he holdeth us not guilty.] As though an hair of our heads could fall without God's appointment and decree? or he would accept it as his service, if it made us sinful? What rude and lewd ignorance is it, to make that sinful in Christ, which is commended to us by his example, and commanded us for his love, and the good of others?  

l Defenc. pag. 77. li. 23.  The jews sacrifices, the express figures of Christ do most lively set out this thing. When they were brought unto God, the people must lay on their hands upon the heads of the beasts: showing thereby, that their 
m Leu●…t. 16. 21.  sins were put upon the sacrifice, and that God so accounted them indeed to be.] As your doctrine is most unsavoury, so your proofs be most unsound; your fancies are so freighted with falsehood, that you can not almost speak a truth. To what end the bringers of Sacrifices did lay their hands on the heads thereof, is not expressed in the Scripture, though you boldly avouched it by the example of the Scape-goat, on which the high Priest alone imposed his hands. In 
n Leuit. 3 v. 2. 8. 13.  peace-offerings of thanksgiving, where was no mention of sin, as well as in burnt offerings and sin offerings, the people 
o Leuit. 3 v. 2. 8. 13.  laid their hands on the heads of 
Why the People la●…d their han●…s on the heads of their Sacrifices.  their sacrifices; and in sinne-offerings the laying on of their hands might be a confession of the fault which they were guilty of; or of their desert, that they were worthy to die; or of their faith in looking to be saved from their sins by the blood of the true Sacrifice, which should purge them from all their uncleanness. The Scape-goat, which you make a precedent for all other Sacrifices, but very falsely, was not slain at all, and had no hands laid on him, save the high Priests alone, and living carried away the sins of the people into a land not inhabited. What resemblance hath this with the bloody sacrifice of Christ for sin, or what comparison can you make between them but by contrarieties? The other bloody Sacrifices, which undoubtedly were figures of Christ, teach no such thing, as you imagine, but rather plainly confute it. For as in nature they were not capable of the guilt, but only of the pain of sin, which is death; so in use they were holy, and in their reference to the true sacrifice, accepted for the sins of men. And because you now admit them to be express and lively figures of Christ, which in the beginning you denied, resolve your Reader, whether they were defiled and hateful to God or no. The Scripture saith of them, they were most 
o Leuit. 7 v. ●…. 6. & 10. v ●…7  holy, and 
p Leuit. 1. v. 4.  accepted as offerings of a 
q 13. 17.  sweet savour unto God. And if the figurative Sacrifices, when they did bear the sins of transgressors, were not defiled therewith, but most holy and accepted to God; what true Christian will endure your unclean thoughts and words, that the Son of God was defiled with our sins, and hateful to God for them, when he assumed them, to abolish them by the shedding of his blood, and to purge us from all pollution of flesh and spirit? Neither trust to your terms of imputation, to save you from impiety of heart and mouth, our sins were imputed to Christ to bear the burden of them in his body, that is to be chasti●…ed for them, but not to be defiled with them, or guilty of them, much less to be hateful to God and truly accursed for them.  

r Defenc. pag. 77. li. 30.  The comparison of Christ with a Surety, is neither a simple similitude, as you simply 
Christ no way ●…ound to be our Surety.  call it neither is it unclean, but a ●…olie and sit representation of Christ's paying our debt for us.] Christ's undertaking our cause, and paying our debts in far more ample and pleasing manner to God than we were able, I no way reject or reprove; (it is the ank●…r and hold of our salvation) but that you bound him thereto by a single similitude of a Surety, who could not be bound farther than his own love and liking did lead him, I did and do mislike; and say, if you take not heed thereto, it breedeth a pe●…tilent and perni●…ious heresy. For it is most certain, that long before the manhood of Christ was conceived, the second person in Trinity undertook our redemption; and in that respect the true and eternal God even from the beginning professed himself to be our Redeemer. 
s job. 19  I am sure, saith job, that my Redeemer liveth. 
u Psal. 30.  Thou hast redeemed me, o Lord God of truth, saith David. Of the Israelites he likewise saith: 
u Psal. 78.  When he slew them, they sought him, and remembered that God was their strength, and the most high God their Redeemer. 
x Esa. 44.  He that made thee, (saith Esay) thine husband (whose name is the Lord of hosts) and thy Redeemer, the holy one of Israel, shall be called the God of the whole world. And again: 
y Es●…. 63.  Thou o Lord art our Father, our Redeemer, thy Name is for ever and ever. And lest any should divert this to the deliverance out of Egypt, which was a figure of their true redemption from sin and Satan; David saith. 
z Psal. 34.  The Lord redeemeth the Souls of his servants, and none that trust in him, shall perish; yea 
a Psal. 130.  He shall redeem Israel from all his Iniquities. And so God in his own person speaketh by his Prophet. 
b O●…e. 14.  I will Redeem them from the hand of hell, I will Redeem them from death; Repentance is hid from mine eyes. Here is he, that first undertook out cause, and professed and promised to be our Redeemer, ●…uen the Son of God, 
c Hebr. 1.  who being the brightness of glory, and the Character of his (Fathers) substance, (or lively Image of his Person) supporting all things with the word of his power, made the purgation of our sins by himself; that is, in his own Person. Now if you being a Christian, have any bands to tie God withal, besides his love and his truth, you were best show them forth; we shall otherwise take you, if you stand upon it, for little better than an Arian, to lay subjection or servitude on any of the Persons in the most glorious Trinity.  

d Defenc. pag. 77. li. 34.  The word is used in the Scripture itself, he was made a Surety of a better covenant. Is not this sufficient to warrant the goodness and aptness of the similitude against your undutiful reproofs of it?] It is not written in the Scriptures, that Christ was made our Surety to God, much less that he was a Surety bound to the Law to pay our debts for us. Our debt was euerl●…ting damnation of Body and Soul, which either Christ or we must pay or suffer, if your profane urging of this Similitude take place. The Scripture saith, 
e Hebr. 7.  He was made a Surety of a better Testament; proving expressly by 
Hebr. 7. Christ a Surety to us of the new Testament.  the Comparison of two Testaments, a former and a weaker, which was the Law; a later and a better, which was the Gospel; that Christ was not a Surety of the Law, nor to the Law, as you falsely conceive, but of a better Testament, than the Law; that is, he was God's assurance to us, that all his promises of ●…ercie, grace, and glory should stand fast, notwithstanding our iniquity, indignity, and Infirmity were never so unmeet and unworthy thereof. This Suretyship of Christ, to establish with his blood the new covenant, which God made with us, not we with him, without all respect of our merits to pardon our offences, and to make us heirs of his heavenly kingdom; the Scripture mentioneth, which is no more like to your Suretyship, than freedom is to bondage. I therefore reproved not the word, which myself also did use, I reproved your servile applying the word to bring Christ from love and liberty, which led him to be our Redeemer, unto thraldom and debt, to make him thereby sinful and defiled with our uncleanness. And is it not worthy of reproof, when a word is used in the Scriptures to one purpose, for you to take upon you to draw it as you list to your devices? It is plainly written in the Gospel; 
f Matth. 20.  The Son of man came no●… to be served, but to serve. Will you hence presume yourself to be Christ's Master, and take him bound to fulfil your Commandment, as servants must their Masters? He saith of himself 
g Psal. 22.  I am a worm and not a man. Will you trample on him, as you do on worms? God hath given us his Spirit as 
h Ephes. 1.  the pledge of our inheritance. Shall we claim power over God's spirit, as we do over pledges, that are in our possession? What wickedness may not be bolstered, if we stretch Similitudes used in the Scriptures, farther than they were intended, and we authorized?  

i Defenc. pag. 78. li. 1.  You say Christ was not as a Surety bound to the Law, but of a better covenant even of grace. Verily a Surety to us of both.] Verily if you say, that Christ was bound to us, or to the Law, in both; that is, as well to bear our sins, as to give us grace, you broach two apparent blasphemies. If you shift with saying, Christ doth assure us he hath done both for us, you slide from your former Assertion. For that both these are done by Christ, we bothagree, only you would have him, when he bore our sins, to be thereto bound, and in that respect worthily 
k Trea pa. 93. li. 6. & 9  condemned by the just sentence of the Law, which layeth the Penalty on the Surety, when the Debtor cannot discharge it. I told you, that not only we were in ourselves to wicked and hateful, as being Enemies, to have any love or favour due to us from God, but also the Person of the Redeemer was so full of might and majesty, that no bands could be laid on him by the Law, because he was afore the Law, and above the Law, that undertook our Redemption. To this what reply yond? [He was a Surety to us of both.] But was he bound to us, or 
It is a most hain●…us error to subject God to any bondage.  to the Law in either? Why speak you not to that, which is in Question? It would well become the rest of your conceits, to say that Christ was bound to redeem us being his Enemies, and that the Son of God was bound to bear our burdens for us. [He promised so to do.] Then the Love of God which began it; the Will, which published it; and the Truth, which performed it; are the more to be magnified by us in the Son of God; who could owe us no duty; nor be bound to us, nor to the Law. [Those are the greatest bands that God can enter.] If God's Counsels, purposes, and Promises be bands to bar the freedom of his favour, grace, and mercy; and in all these to impose on him a necessity, then is there in God no freedom, but only bondage; which God forbid should come within any Christians hart. He is most constant in all his thoughts, words, and ways; which we may not think, much less call debts to us, or bands to him, without evident and extreme impiety; but as he giveth all things to all, and oweth nothing to any, which the Scripture calleth his Grace, whereof he is a giver, and not a Debtor; so he cannot repent or change, as men do; which we must ascribe to the infallible steadfastness of his most wise and glorious will; the only Rule of all his gifts and works. No band then, if you know what a band meaneth, can be fastened on God, since that hath in it a debt, which must of necessity be yielded, whereto the party may be compelled and forced by the right of the Law, which challenges in God's promises are most profane and heathenish Blasphemies.  

l Defenc. pag. 78. li. 11.  It is written that Christ was made, Hyponomon, subject to the Law, or under the Law, which you mightily deny against express Scripture.] You are so well acquainted with corrupting and depraving other men's words, that you make no care to do the like to mine. That Christ was under the Law, I never denied, no more than that he was 
Christ made himself under the law by love, when he was free from the Law, and Lord of the Law.  under death; but I said he was not bound to the Law, no more than he was bound to death, though he willingly for our sakes subjecteth himself to the rudiments of the Law, (for of those the Apostle speaketh) to live under them for a time, and to taste of death, that he might in the end abolish them both. For as Christ would be Circumcised, and Baptised, though there was nothing in him needful to be pared or washed away, but rather that fulfilling all righteousness, he might commend both the one and the other with his person and presence: so would he observe the ceremonies of the Law, not tied like a Servant unto them, but content to use them, as Lord over them, till he saw his time, which he did not stick to profess of himself, when occasion was offered. The 
m Matth 12. vers. 8.  Son of man (saith he of himself) is Lord even of the Sabbath: And so likewise, 
n Matth 12. vers. 6.  I say unto you, that here is one greater than the temple. By which words of his it is evident, that he was not bound to the Law, who called himself, as he was the Son of Man, Lord of the Sabbath, and so of all the Law; but as he laid down his life, when the Law could not take it from him, and was obedient unto death, though death were in his power; so would he subject himself to the carnal commandments of the Law, though he were free from them, as being the truth and end of the Law. For the Law was our Schoolmaster to Christ, to whom when we were come by faith, which made us the 
o Galat. 3.  Sons of God, we were no longer under a Schoolmaster. How much less than could Christ himself, who freed all, that believed in him, from observing the Law, be bound or of necessity subject to the Law; which need not lead him to himself, nor could not force him, that was personally the Son of God, to be a servant under the types and figures of the Law, farther than his own will induced him.  
I made a reason that Sureties bound to the law to pay other men's debts, might not look to have all referred to their liking and power. as Christ had to his, but to answer the penalties of the law, to which they were obliged. 
p Defenc. pag. 78. li. 15.  ●…es forsooth, such a Surety, as he was, might worthily be a gracious Mediator: he was no ordinary Sucrtie.] You labour to bind Christ to the thraldom of condemnation by the similitude of human laws, which subject the Surety to the ●…arre condition, that they do the debtor: and now when you see that resemblance to fail, you exempt him from the servitude of Sureties, because he was no ordinary Surety. Do you now find, there 
Thou●…h Christ ●…ay be called a voluntary Sureti●…, y●…t was he truly a merciful Redeemer.  is great difference betwixt a Surety and a Redeemer, and howsoever the speech may be true, that Christ was a kind of Surety for us, yet may we not make him a servant obliged to us, or with us, but a willing and free Redeemer. For after our transgression committed, and judgement given upon Adam and all his posterity by Gods own mouth, a Surety cometh to late, a Redeemer is not too late before execution; and therefore the Scriptures do every where give us a Redeen er, to note that we were condemned, and reserved under fear and danger of everlasting punishment, till the Redeemer interposed himself, and offered such ransom and restitution, as should more content and satisfy the holiness and justice of God, then out condemnation could do. The person that undertook our redemption, was not Christ's human nature, which as then was not, but the Son of God in his own person assumed on him to make full satisfaction for our disobedience; not by suffering everlasting death, which was due to us, but by giving a better and more precious recompense, than we were worth. And this he would do by submitting himself to obey and serve in our nature, and in our steed, and so offer the most acceptable Sacrifice of humility and obedience unto death, that God's holiness might be honoured, which we d●…spised; and his justice satisfied, which we provoked. Let all men therefore advise themselves, how they bind the person of the Son of God to their obligation or condemnation; it was he, and none other that undertook for us, and by whose favour, power, dignity, sanctity and humility joined in one person with our weak and frail nature, the work of our redemption was performed.  

q Defenc. pa. 78. li. 23.  You say he could not be bound to the Law, because he was above the Law. He was above the Law in his Godhead, but in his manhood he became for us under the Law. If you speak of Christ's manhood apart from his Godhead, you utterly overthrow all our salvation. For set aside the personal union of man with God in Christ jesus, and his human nature could do us no good. Since therefore his Godhead was from everlasting, and a perfect and distinct person in the T●…initie before his manhood was created, which had never any existence by itself, but in conjunction with his Deity from the first instant of his conception; when we speak of the person of Christ, we 
Christ vnder●… to be our Redeemer 4●…0 years before he was made man.  must speak either of his Godhead, which was before his incarnation, or jointly of both after his assumption of man into God. Then either we had no Surctie for our redemption the four thousand years that Christ's fl●…sh was unmade of his mother, or else the Son of God in his own person was our Surety. So that our Surety for four thousand years could not be bound to the Law by your confession: and when the same Son of God took unto him our human nature into the unity of his perfon; HE, that is, the Person could be no more bound to the Law then he was before. For the Godhead was of more power to free the manhood of Christ in that Person from the Law, than our flesh in Christ was to subject the Godhead under the Law. Wherefore the person remained free and unbound, yet would he submit himself to observe the signs and sacraments of the Law, as he did humble himself to the death of the Cross, to neither of which the person was bound by any legal servitude, but only by voluntary submission, that his obedience being no way tied, might be the more precious in God's sight. For as the 
r 1. Cor. 2.  Lord of glory was crucified, and we are 
s ●…om 5.  reconciled to God by the death of his Son, so God sent his Son 
t Ga●…at. 4.  m●…de of a woman, and made under the Law, to redeem us and give us the ad●…ption of children: but as he was made flesh by no compulsion nor obligation, no more was he subi●…ct to the Law by any other means, then by his own love and liking for us.  
Neither doth the Scripture bind the manhood of Christ unto the Law. For 
u 1. Tim 1.  the Law was not given to the righteous, saith the Apostle. Which if it were possible to be true in any, it was most true in the manhood of Christ, who had neither in birth, life, nor death any taint of sin. 
x Galat. 5.  If ye be led by the spirit, saith Paul, ye are not under the Law: for against such there is no law. Whether you think the manhood of Christ was endued and guided with the spirit, I refer it to your own conscience. If it were, then against him was no law, though in love to us, which was the fulfilling of the law, he would humble himself, not under the law only, but under the worst of men, to be the 
y Psal. 22.  contempt of men, and reproach of the people. 
z joh. 8.  If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free inde●…d, saith our Saviour. For the servant abideth not in the house for ever, but the Son abideth for ever. If then, when we are made the sons of God by faith, we can be no longer servants to the law, because the law engendereth bondage, which is repugnant to the libert●…e wherewith Christ hath made us free; how much less could the manhood of Christ, which not only freeth us, but was personally borne the Son of God, be a servant and in bondage to the law, sau●… only because he would humble himsel●…e to serve in our steads? This Paul learned of his master, and followed in his ma●…ter, when he said: 
a 1. Cor. 9  Though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all men, and am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. So that by your leave it is a plain error in you, because Christ submitted himself willingly to the l●…w, to conclude his manhood was bound to the law.  
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not of ●…m else in his manhood bound to the law for us, but freely and voluntarily 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God's gracious eternal decree appointing him, so he became bound to the 
b Defenc. pag. 78. li. 26.  〈◊〉. The ●…eader will find in the end, that your greatest strength is the mistaking o●… o●…her men's words and abusing of your own. For when you have wrangled four leaves to ●…e Christ to the true curse of the law, and to hang him by the just sentence of the same law, because he stood bound with us as a Surety to pay our debts; now at last long linger, you say, he did freely and voluntarily undertake to redeem us, yet loath to let go. you add, and so became bound to the law. Sir, you should tell us, W●…o did ●…ely and voluntarily undertake our redemption, and WHEN. For if it were undertaken by the Son of God long before Christ's manhood was borne, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you the Son of God to the law, which before you disclaimed. And did ●…od, thi●…ke you, eternally decree and appoint his Son to be bound to the Law? 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉, if you appoint any of the persons in Trinity to be one bound 〈◊〉 th●…n another with any manner of bondage or service. Then as the Son co●…ld not ●…e bo●…nd, because he was God; No more would the Father bind the S●…nne, whose love to us led him to undertake our Redemption; and to bind him that was willing, was to distrust him, which suspicion I hope you will not impure to the Father against the Son. The Father therefore in the same love to us, wherewith 
The willing offer of the Son to be our Redeemer did induce the decree of the whole Trinity.  his Son offered to be the person, that should redeem us, accepted the offer of his Son, and graciously decreed with one consent of the whole Trinity, as well the manner, as the mean of our redemption; which decree did not bind, but accept and approve the love of the Redeemer. And when the time came, that the Son of God would execute this decree made as well by himself, as the other persons in Trinity, he took an undefiled human body and soul into the person of his Godhead, which he so reple●…ished with the wonderful light, and supported with the infall●…le strength of his spirit, that it most willingly embraced, and most earnestly affe●…ted the same submission and obedience, which the divine nature of Christ was ple●…sed to yield for our redemption. So that the manhood of Christ never having any subsistence by itself apart from the Godhead of the Son, it never had any human action or pas●…ion in birth, life, or death, which pertained not to the whole person consisting of God and man. And in that respect the Scriptures say, 
c Ga●…at. 4.  God sent his Sonn●… ma●… of a wom●…n, and made under the Law, and we are 
d Rom. 5.  reconciled to God by the death of hi●… Son; the 〈◊〉 
e 1. Cor. 2.  crucified the Lord of glory, and God 
f Act. 20.  purchased his church with his own blood. Which speeches could have no truth in them, as likewise our salvation no certainty, if the manhood of Christ could have had any action or passion asunder from the Godhead. The person therefore of God and man after his incarnation, was subject to the Law, and even the same person, that from the beginning undertook our redemption, and so not the manhood of Christ, as you would shift the matter off, but the person of God and man must be bound to the Law, if our Surety were bound.  
May not God be bound by his promise?] Then must you say, that God is bound to give us grace, mercy, and glory, because he hath promised every one of these, 
God's promise ●…ust not ●…e called ●…on ●…age  and hath sworn to perform them; and so you turn the whole Scriptures upside down, and put yourself in God's place, and make him your attendant and servant, because by an immutable decree he hath promised to hear us, when we call; and help us in time of need. By this Divinity like to the rest of your devices, the love, favour, compassion, bounty, mercy, truth, and majesty of God shall be not only a necessity, but even a bondage unto him, which blasphemy no Christian ears I hope will endu●…e. God therefore is a most merciful promiser, a most gracious giver, and a most faithful performer; his promises are assurances that he will give, what he saith; but they are no bands, that he must yield, what he oweth; because we have neither means to deserve them, nor ●…ight to challenge them, nor power to exact them; but only need to receive them, prayer to entreat them, and thanks to acknowledge them. He is content to make himself our debtor by promise, to let us see, how much we are bound to him, that deserving nothing, we are yet by his mercy assured of all things.  

De●…nc. pa●…●…8. li 29.  Though he who ordinarily Redeemeth a prisoner from the Enemy, be not bound, but content so to do, yet a Surety being content becometh bound, and so Christ our Redeemer became bound, as a Surety to pay our debt for us.] Though the Scriptures every where calling Christ a Redeemer, and no where a Surety to God for us to pay our debts, (but God's Surety or assurance to us) do by the very name give us to understand, that God must needs be less bound than men, which are not bound but content to redeem others from their enemies; yet you will have your will in spite of Scriptures and Fathers, and make Christ no Redeemer indeed, by taking his freedom from him, but bi●…de him with your similitudes to do that in thraldom, which in love and me●…cie he was content to do for us. And where God's decrees and promises, which a●…e most faithful and firm assurances, can not be called bonds in him without blasphe●…ie, yet you will have him bound to save us, because he promised to deliver us. And our debt being eternal damnation of body and soul to hell fire, you will tie Christ to pay our debts without dispensation or qualification; except it please you with your possi●…ilities to relieve him. And the law, to which you will have him bound, was first that, which inflicted penalties on us for sin; than it was the Gospel, which showed us our salvation in Christ; and now it is the eternal dec●…e of God, whereby Christ was appointed to be our Saviour. And all this impiety and inconstancy you build neither on Scripture nor Father, but upon the similitude of a Surety taken from Westminster Hall, where men mistrusting each others words and wills, take bands with Sureties to have their due paid them. But know you good Sir, that God had no distrust of his Sons will and love to us, nor doubt of his abil●…ty to perform our redemption, and therefore bound him not, as you desperately dr●…ame, when he offered to be our Redeemer; but accepted his love, which could not fail; and his will, which could not change; making no decree for the manner of our redemption, but what the Son himself with the rest of the persons in Trinity liked for the preserving of his own divine justice, and showing of his own exceeding love towards us.  
Then as it is certain by the Christian faith the Son of God could not be bound to help or redeem us being his enemies, nor to humble himself to the form of a servant, but only was thereto led with the love of his Father's glory, and of our safety: so it is evident, that the same person, after he had assumed our nature unto him, could not be forced with any necessity, nor urged with any commandment against 
The person of Christ could not be bound, but his human will was gu●…ded by his divine will.  his will, but the human will of Christ was so guided and directed by his divine will and power, that it readily and gladly submitted itself in all things to the will and pleasure of his Father, which indeed was also the will of his own divine nature; forsomuch as the three persons in Trinity have all one & the same glory and majesty, will and work. And therefore aswell the Scriptures, as the Fathers do plainly testify, that even Christ's manhood had power enough given it to withstand all that was offered him by men or devils, but that for our sakes the person would submit himself to the servitude, infirmity, misery, and mortality of our condition; therein to comfort us, thereby to redeem us, and therefrom to deliver us; which he could not do but in his human nature, since his Godhead was impassable.  
This freedom and power not to be bound, nor compelled to any of his sufferings, we must reserve to the person of Christ, that his obedience might be meritorious and voluntary, not only at his first consenting thereto, which is this Defenders drift, but in his continual persisting therein, and final performing thereof; that is, in all and every part of those things which the wisdom of God thought requisite for our redemption. 
h Luc. 17.  When you have done all those things, saith our Saviour, which were appointed you, say. We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which was our bounden duty to d●…e. Will you bring Christ within the compass of an unprofitable servant, by doing that he was appointed and bound to do? 
i Ad Phil●…mon. v. 14.  Without thy liking (saith Paul to Philemon) I would do nothing, that thy good should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly. If God so much respect the willingness of the heart, that he will not have men tied with necessity to do good, shall we think, that he would bind his own Son to the obedience of a servant, and not suffer his submission to be voluntary, that it might be acceptable and thanks worthy to God? And to what purpose lay you these bands on Christ? If he were willing, there needed no bands besides the 
k Os●…. 11. v. 4.  bands of love, which is the surest hold that God requireth of us. If he were not willing, his undertaking our cause, was neither love to us nor obedience to God, (who loveth a cheerful giver) but a compulsion or exaction, which overthroweth the very groundwork of Christ's submission and our salvation.  
To prevent all lewd and wicked surmises of bonds, duty, or necessity to be laid 
There was no necessity in our Redemption, but Christ's will, power, and liberty.  on the Son of God in redeeming us, the Scriptures exactly say, that 
l Eph. 5. v. 25.  Christ loved his Church, and gave himself for her; that is, he was led by love, and by no compulsion no●… commandment, to give himself for her, which otherwise by no means could be exacted of the Son of God. And therefore he 
m Phili●…. 2.  EMPTIED HIMSELF, taking the form of a servant, and HUMBLED HIMSELF, becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross; to assure us it was love, that caused him to give himself; that is, at first to offer, and after to yield himself for us, which otherwise could by no decree nor band be imposed on him, nor required of him. And this liberty to do and suffer of his own accord every thing, which he in his divine wisdom, together with the Father and the Holy Ghost, thought meet for man's salvation, the person of Christ kept untouched even to his death, in his death, and after his death; himself most plainly professing so much of himself in the laying down of his soul, that 
n john. 10.  none took it from him, but he laid it down of himself; and 
o john. 2.  would in three days raise up again the temple of his body, by taking his soul unto him. And this was the charg●… and appointment that he received of his Father, to do and suffer these things of himself, that is, without any band, force, or necessity, but only of his own accord and voluntary obedience to that which was his Father's will, because it was first his own good will and offer, and so accepted and decreed to the whole Trinity, as a most sufficient amends for man's disobedience, and a most just and full desert of man's adoption and salvation by the means and merits of Christ jesus. For which cause the Scripture resolveth us, that Christ 
p Eph. 5 v 2.  loved us, and gave himself for us, to be an offering and a sacrifice of a sweet savour unto God, that is, a most willing, free, and acceptable service, and satisfaction to God for all our sins.  
The Catholic Fathers were very careful to continue this Doctrine in Christ's Church. 
q August. d●…fi de contra Manu●…eo. cap. 26.  Nos Dominum verum hominem suscepisse credimus, & in ipso visibiliter invisibilem apparuisse, in ipso inter homines conversatum fuisse, in ipso ab hominibus humana pertulisse. Totum autem hoc nulla fecit necessitate. We (Christians) saith Austen believe that the Lord took upon him the true Nature of Man, and therein did visibly appear to men, when he was before invisible, and in his Manhood conuer●…ed amongst men, and in the same s●…ffered the t●…ings, which men may offer to men. All this did ●…e with no necessity. To show what Christ suffered from men; Austen addeth. The word was made flesh by his own power, and was borne, and suffered, and died, and rose again, Nulla sua necessitate, sed voluntate & potestave; By no nec●…ssitie laid on him, but of his own will and power. And so: 
r Idem in Psal. 87.  H●…s human infi●…mitatis affec●…us si●…t ip●…m carnem Infirmitatis hum●…nae, a●… mortem carnis human●… Dominus Ie●…us non conditionis necessitate, sed mi●…ationis voluntate suscep●…t. These affections of ma●…s Infi●…mitie, as al●…o the flesh of man's we●…kenesse, and the death of man's flesh, the Lord jesus took upon him not by any necesstie of Condition, but by the good will of ●…is mercy. As else where. Ostendit Domi●…us volunt●…e se pati, non necessitate. 
Idem ●…n johannem. tracta. 1●….  Ergo quod p●…ssus est, misericordia fuit. The Lord showeth that he s●…ffered by his own will, and by no ne●…essitie. It was therefore mercy that made him suffer. ●…uery where Saint Austen is resolute, that Christ suffered, and died, 
t .  when he would, as he would, and because he woul●…. Ath●…asius. Christ seeing the goodness of his F●…ther, and his own suffciencie, and po●…er, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; was 
.  moue●… with ●…ue towards man, and pittiing our infirmity, he put on the same, and having Com●…assion on our mortality, he clothed himself therewith: 
x 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; and willingly took up the Cross to him●…e, and ●…ent to his death uncompelled. chrysostom. 
y .  Sei●…sum tradidit, ut indicet quod volunta●… p●…ssionem suscepit, & non necessitate, neque ut, sed volens & spenté. Christ gave himsel●…e, to show that he undertook his Passion wil●…ngly, and not by any nec●…ssitie or exaction, but of his own will and accord. 
z .  Passus est quia voluit, resurrexit quia potuit. Christ suffered because he would, and rose because he could. And so 
a  By his deeds Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…hat ●…e w●…nt to hi●… P●…ssion by no force nor necessity, but of his own accord. Ambr●…e. 〈◊〉 ●…as no ●…eruant to death, but free among the dead. For he was free that had 
.  powe●… 〈◊〉 death. 
c I●…em de fide 〈◊〉. 2 cap 1  By the power of his Du●…nitie ●…e laid down his Soul, and took 〈◊〉. T●…ou sec●… his goodn●…sse in that he laid it down of his own accord: thou seest his power in that ●…e to●…ke it again. 
Idem. ●…i. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. 1●….  At the ●…ime when plea●…ed him, the Lord jesus emptied himsel●…e ●…nd 〈◊〉 suffered when he would. jerom. ●… Death came not upon Christ, but Christ cam●… 〈◊〉; ●…or Death in him found no way for his power. ●… He was no Debtor to Death and sin, b●…t he was offered, because he him●…elfe would. For 
.  he ●…ustained not the Cross 
.  by any ne●…essitie, but willingly, otherwise if he h●…d not been off●…red by his own good will, he 
.  mig●…t h●…ue de●…lined tho●…e that were sent to (take) him, whom he met without fear, and of his o●…ne accord off●…red him●…elfe to them. 
  
Grego●…ie. In carne veni●…ns Dominus non culpam nostr●…m ex vitio, non poenam ex necessit●…te 〈◊〉; nulla enim labe peccati pollutus, reatus nostriteneri conditione non potuit: atque id●…o m●…rtem nostram omni necessitate c●…lcata, cum voluit, sp●…nte suscepit. The Lord commi●…g 
 in, flesh, neit●…er took on ●…im our fault by any infection, nor our punishment by any coacti●…n, for being ●…filed with no st●…ine of sin, he could not be held by any condition of our guilti●…, 〈◊〉 and there●…ore ●…reading all necessity vn●…er his feet, of his own accord, when he would, ●…e admitted o●…r d●…ath. ●… Nos omnes cum nolumus morimur; quia ad solu●…ndae penae debitum 
.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 conditione coarc●…armur. Ille autem quia nulli admixtus est culpae, nulli ex nec●…e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Sed quia culpam n●…stram dominando subdidit, poenam nostram mi●…ando suscepit. We all die against our wills, because we are tied by the condition of our sin to the debt of ●…nduring punishment. But he that was entangled with no fault, could not be b●…und to any pe●…ltie by nec●…ssitie. Yet because he subdued our sin by reigning over it, in 〈◊〉 and piti●… (to us) he undertook our p●…nishment, as he himself saith: I have power to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 my 〈◊〉, no man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. Beda. 
l .  jesus hungered, it 〈◊〉 true, but because he would. He slept, it is true, but because he would. He sorrowed, it is true, but because he would. He died, it is true, but because he would. 
m I●…em in Psal. 87.  It was in his power to be so or so affected, or not. These affections of man's infirmity, Non conditione necessitatis, sed voluntate miserationis suscepit, si●…ut & carnem & ipsam etiam mortem; Christ took unto him not by any b●…nd of necessity, but by the good pleasure of his mercy, as he did flesh, and death itself. Wherefore his death was truly free, not forced; because he had power to lay down his soul, and take it again. 
n Idem Q●…st 13. de 〈◊〉 Arbitri●….  He that dieth of necessity, can not rise of himself. Christ then, who wanted all fault, was not tied to the necessity of death. Therefore Christ's death was voluntary, not necessary; and so he might rise of himself. Damascene, 
o Damas●… Orth●…doxa fide●… li. 3. ca 20.  Natural things (affections and passions) in Christ did not prevent his will, there was nothing forced in Christ, but all voluntary. At his own will he hungered, at his own will he thirsted, at his own will he feared, at his own will he died. Bernard. 
p Bernard. fer●…a ●… 〈◊〉 paenosae.  Not only Christ was willing, and was offered, but he was offered because he was willing. 
q  Christ being equal with God emptied himself by taking the form of a servant, and being rich became poor for us, and of great was made little; of high, low; of strong, weak; and hungered, and thirsted, and was wearied in his journey, and the rest, which he suffered of his own accord and not by any necessity. 
r Idem ibid.  He was voluntarily incarnate, he voluntarily suffered, and was voluntarily crucified. 
s Idemotid.  For had he not died voluntarily, that death had not been meritorious. How much more unworthily he died who deserved not death, so much the more justly (man) liveth, for whom he died. What justice, thou wilt ask, is this, that an innocent should die for a malefac●…our? NON EST JUSTITIA, SED MISERICORDIA. Si justitia esset, iam non gratis, sed ex debito moreretur. It is no justice, it is mercy. If it were justice, then should he not die fre●…ly, but indebted thereto; and if indebted, than he indeed should die, but the other, for whom he died, should not live. Yet though it be not justice, it is not against justice; otherwise he could not be both just, and merciful.  
The very Catechism, on which you seem so much to stand, diligently teacheth and urgeth the same doctrine, howsoever you be slipped to some Sc●…ueners shop to draw Indentures to bind Christ to the penalty of the Law, as your Surety. 
t Catechis. an●… 1574. edit, fo. 66.  Laquet ipsum debit as hominum sceleri, sibi indebit as paenas sua voluntate inse suscepisse, subijsse, & nostrorum flagitiorum maculas morte voluntaria, & suo innocente sanguine luisse, atque eluisse. It is evident, that Christ admitted, received, and suffered of his own good will the pains due to man's wickedness, but not due to him, and with a voluntary death, and his own innocent blood did wash, and cleanse the spots of our filthiness, And again. 
u Fol. 67.  It is evident, the jews had not in their power these things, or times; sed sua ipsum voluntate, nulla v●… coactum, harc mortem pro nostra salute oppetijsse; but of his own accord, without any c●…action, Christ died this death for our salvation. Where also this is set down as a true position; that, 
x F●…l. 67.  eligendae mortis optio penes ipsum fi●…t; the election and direction of his death was left to his own power and choice; which the whole Church of Christ hath hitherto ascribed to the power and will, love and mercy of the Son of God, rejecting your bands and obligations lately devised to bar the freedom, and abridge the power of the Saviour of the world, because you would tie him to the pains of hell.  
You see not, you will say, how these Fathers make against you.] None otherwise but that they directly deny, that which you affirm. Christ, you say, though of good 
The Fathers disclaim all necessity in the death of Christ.  will he was at first content so to do, yet after became bound to the Law to pay our debts. Now he that is bound must needs obey; and so you lay on Christ not only a necessity, but also a duty. These Fathers with one consent disclaim all necessity in the death of Christ, and consequently they confes●…e, he was free from all bands and debts, but in love and mercy, as a free Redeemer, he would give himself for us, which was a far greater price, than we were worth, or could owe. And these multitudes of men, as you call them, though they be not of equal strength with the word of God, which is the touchstone of all truth, yet do they plainly prove, that you innovate the faith of Christ's Church, which in their several ages they all believed and professed: and for their faith they have the manifest words of our Saviour, that none took his soul from him, but he laid it down of himself; and the witness of the Apostle, that Christ for love gave himself for us: which argueth, that he was urged thereto with no violence, necessity, nor duty, much less was thereto bound: and you for your device have the curiosity of creditors, & the discredit of debtors, of whom men require Sureties with bands, because they trust not their words and promises; much less their wills and dispositions. But this jealousy in the Son of God, is heinous blasphemy; & therefore there could be no cause to bind him, as there could be no distrust of him, since our misery, and his mercy were motives enough to incline, and continue his love, though we leave him at his full liberty without all servitude or necessary.  

y ●…ph. 5.  God's decree and his own good will was, that he should satisfy and pay none otherwise 
●… Defenc. pag. 78. li. 34.  for us, than so as he did.] There can be no question, but in creating, condemning, and redeeming man; the Father, the Son, and the holy Ghost had one and the same will and decree, yet except with the Arian heretics you make an inequality of the persons in the most blessed Trinity, you can impose no service, nor suffering on the Son of God by any decree, but what must come from his own good pleasure, offer, and performance. And that the Scriptures every where imply, when they say; 
z Gal●…t. 2.  Christ loved us, and gave himself for us; that is, he FIRST of love towards us OFFERED to serve and suffer in our places, and AFTER of the same love submitted himself to perform his purpose and promise of our salvation. So that God's decree was no injunction, nor ordinance, that his Son should do it, but an ACCEPTATION of his sons love and mercy towards us, and an APPROEATION, that it was a most sufficient recompense for all the transgressions of men. And the Father is said 
Rom. 8.  to give his Son for us, not that he loved us better than he did his Son, whom he infinitely loveth, as himself, and for whose sake only he accepteth us; not that he used any authority or power over his Son, to appoint him to this service; but that knowing the strength and sufficiency of his Son, to be as his own, and seeing his love and mercy towards us, which was common to him with the rest of the persons in that most glorious Trinity; the Father out of the same love towards us thought it fitter to accept the offer of his Son, then that we should perish. And therefore though the Father loved his Son as himself, yet he was content his Son should bear our burden, which we could not without everlasting destruction, and his Son could with exceeding honour, and admiration of his mercy, humility, obedience, and patience. If you slide from the Godhead of Christ to his manhood, to bind that, because it was a Creature, and not the Creator, by dividing the person of Christ you run into the heresy of Nestorius condemned in the general Counsel of ●…phesus; and yet relieve not yourself. For the person, and not this or that part of his nature, must be the Redeemer, since neither man could save us, unless he were also God, nor God could die for us, unless he were also man, and so did suf●…er death in his human nature. So that the Surety, as you call him, that undertook our salvation, not only from the beginning, but before the world, was precisely the person of the Son of God, and not the human nature of Christ, and therefore you must either bind the Godhead of Christ as our Surety, or free his manhood from all bands. Neither could any of Christ's sufferings be of infinite price and merit for us, except we as●…ibe them to the voluntary obedience of the person, since the death of a just man could not be the redemption of the world, but the death of that person, which was more worth than all the world. If then Christ's sufferings take their force and value from the person, they must likewise have their freedom and election from the person.  

b Defenc. pag. 78. li 36.  Those sentences of your Authors Gregory, Austen, and Ambrose, if they be spoken simply, seem very harsh, where they say, that Christ could have saved us otherways then by suffering and dying for us. For herein they oppose Gods absolute omnipotency against his express and revealed will; which how it may be liked in Divinity I know not.] Yours is more harsh, that reprove them, before you understand them; and challenge that as false, which is most apparently true by the main grounds of Christian Religion. For if you avouch God's power to extend no farther than his works, as if God could do no more, than he hath done, or will do; is a manifest denying of God's omnipotency, which is larger than either his will, or his works; and though his works must always be measured by his will, yet must his power be limited to neither, because God is able to do many things, which he never did, nor will do. And in his works, if you bind him with any necessity, to do as he did, and leave him not at liberty to do all things according to his own wisdom and will, you revive the accursed error of the Manichees, against whom Saint Austen fully resolveth. 
c A●…gust de ●…de contr●… Manichees. cap. 〈◊〉  Nullam ergo necessitatem patitur Deus, neque necessitate facit, quae facit, sed summa & ineffabili voluntate ac potestate. God then suffereth no necessity, neither doth he the things, which he doth, with any necessitte, but with a supreme and unspeakable will and power. So that the words of Gregory, Austen, and Ambrose are most true, that God had other means in his power to save us, then by the death of his own Son; but a BETTER or more convenient way to demonstrate his love, and mercy towards us, and to manifest his wisdom, power, and justice against sin, death, and Satan, he had not; for no Question God chose the best. And why these words should offend any Christian man I see no cause, since they be both sound and sober.  
They oppose God's power against his express and revealed will.] You were told, it is an error to restrain God's power to his will, as if he could not do more, or otherwise, than he hath done; but in this you conceive them not. For they do not say, God had means to change his will, or to alter his promise once published, but when he first decreed this way to save man, it was in his power to have appointed an other way, if it had pleased him. So that God was not tied to determine this way by any necessity, as if the power of evil prevailed against him, or choice of other means failed him; but this in the wisdom of God, common to all three persons in that most holy Trinity, was allowed as the most honourable and acceptable way to God, and most favourable and comfortable to man. And this confession, which you so much control, hath been used by Divines of all ages, howsoever you know not what to make of it in your new Divinity. Cyprian before their time. 
d Cypria●… de Passion●… Chr●…sti.  Et sine hoc holocausto poterat Deus tantum condonasse peccatum, sed facilitas veniae laxaret habenas peccatis effrenibus, quae etiam Christi vix cohibent passiones. God was able to have pardoned so great sin without this Sacrifice, but the facility of forgiveness would lose the reins to unbridled sins, which even the sufferings of Christ do scant repress. Nazianzen even with 
e Naz●…z 1. Epist. ad Cl●…donium.  the eldest of them. It was possible for God (to save man) without taking flesh by his only will, as he did, and doth work all things without the help of a Body. Damascene after them. 
f Damasc●…. Or. thod●…. fidei. li. 3. cap. 8.  He was not unable, that can do all things, by his Almighty power and strength to take man from the Tyrant, (that possessed him.) Bernard likewise. 
g Bernard. s●…per Cantic. Serm●…. 11.  Was not the Creator able to restore his work without this difficulty? He was able, but he chose rather to wrong himself then the most lewd and hateful vice of unthankfulness should have any colour in man. Zanchius resolveth the same. 
h Zanchiu●… in 2. cap. ad Philip.  Could not mankind be delivered by any other means (than by Christ's death?) who can doubt it? Solo nutu & jussu ac voluntate divina poterat. It might have been delivered by the only beck Commandment and will of God. Master Calvin, whose wariness you so much commend, where he maketh any thing for you, doubteth not in this Assertion to join with Ambrose, Austen, and Gregory against you. 
i calvinus i●… cap. 15. joannis. vers. 13.  Poterat nos Dominus verbo, aut nutu redimere, nisi aliter nostra causa visum esset. The Lord might have Redeemed us with a word, or a beck (of his,) but that for our sakes he thought good otherwise to do it. The Book of Homilies, on which you would seem so much to depend, goeth farther than either Ambrose or Austen, & saith; 
k The second Sermon of the Passion. pa. 11.  Was not this a sure pledge of God's love to give us his own Son from heaven? he might have given us an Angel, if he would, or some other Creature; and yet should his love have been far above our deserts.  

l Defenc. pag. 79. li. 4.  All these Similitudes of Mediator, Redeemer, and Surety may stand very well together in the office of Christ, though you would persuade us the contrary, yea rather they confirm each other.] The names of Mediator & Redeemer are exactly affirmed of Christ, and often authorised in the Scriptures; the name of Surety to God for us is not; he is called God's Surety to us of a better Testament, than the Law; because God in him, and by him hath assured us of his mercy and grace in this life, and of his heavenly kingdom in the life to come. And if you will needs urge the Similitude of Sureties from the course and custom of human Laws, which appoint and admit Sureties, they utterly exclude us in the case that we were in, from having any Sureties. For neither in 
m Panorm●…tan. r●…brs. de fide ●…ussoribus.  Capital crimes, nor in 
n D●…gest. li. 2. Tit. 11. si quis cauti●…nibus. leg●… q●…tiens.  Corporal pains doth man's Law allow any Sureties. Again no 
n D●…gest. li. 2. Tit. 11. si quis cauti●…nibus. leg●… q●…tiens.  Surety standeth bound for a servant, much less for a condemned, & dead person. Since than we were not only the servants of sin; but for heinous offences condemned, Soul and Body, to ever lasting perdition, and already dead in Soul by sin; no course of Law allowed us Sureties. Moreover, the Prince who is the Lord over the Law, may be no Surety, because he is not chalengable by the Law. how then will you bind the King of Kings to be our Surety, as if the most Sovereign were most subjecteth to the Law? besides, Christ freed us by giving himself, and his life for us. What Sureties do so? Christ bought us with a Price to be his servants. Do Sureties buy their debtors to serve them? Christ gave infinitely more than we were worth. Is that possible for Sureties? Christ did change our punishment in his person from eternal death to the death of the Crosse. Have Sureties that liberty, or authority? We rested on God's promise for our Redemption, before it was performed. Know you not that a bare promise, by man's Law, doth not bind, though God be fa●…thfull in all his words? Albeit then Christ recompensed our debt, and voluntarily by his own death discharged our danger, being no way thereto bound, yet since he observed none other conditions of a Surety, and no right or Law did allow us Sureties; I see no cause, why you should change the honour of a free Redeemer, so much mentioned in the Scriptures, into the Thraldom of a Surety bound with us, as you say to pay our debt, which was everlasting destruction of Body and Soul.  

o Defenc. p●…g. 79. h. 10.  Our public Church's Doctrine also avoucheth that ●…e was our Surety.] Our Church alloweth that Catechism to be taught in Schools to Children, with whom it may be you se●…ke to be sorted, because you never waded any farther, unless in one or two new writers, that fit your fancy. It doth approve likewise, and appoint Erasmus Pa●…aphrase to l●…e openly in the Church for every man, that doubteth of any thing in the n●…we Testament, to read for his instruction; and yet you will not take every word in Erasmus Paraphrase for the public Doctrine of the Church of England. For so you should ●…oone exclude the most of your new conceits. But what saith the Catechism, that Christ was bound to suffer for us, or did endure the same damnation which we d●…serued? It saith, that Christ was our Surety.] The Catechism goeth not so far, but saith, God dealt cum Christo quasi sponsore, with Christ as it were with a Surety. Christ then did voluntarily assume some similitude, but not the strict and exact condition of a Surety, even by the tenor of the words which you cite; though you guilefully translate them, as if Christ had been our Surety. It is one thing to hold, Christ was our Surety, and jointly bound with us by law to pay our debts, which is your error; and another thing to say, Christ was as it were a Surety, or did of his own accord discharge our debts for us. The Catechism in this very section precisely noteth, that he was not bound as Sureties be, but of his own will suffered for us the cruel and wicked rage of the jews, in putting him to death. 
p Fol. 64.  Haec quidem illi in eum crudeliter, malitiose, at●… impiè perpetrarant: verum ip●…e sua s●…onte, ac volens haec omnia perpe●…s, at●… perfunctus est. These things (before described) the jews did cruelly, malitio●…ly and impiou●… against him; but he OF HIS OWN ACCORD and good will, (not bound) suffered all these things. And before he cometh to your words, he saith, but it i●… not unusual amongst men, that one should undertake and suffer for another. By which he doth not mean, that by right or law one man may be bound to suffer or die for another, but by liking or love, men are sometimes thereto led. Otherwise the law both of God & man is directly against all such suffering. 
q .  Sancimus ibiesse poenam, 〈◊〉 est. Peccata suos teneant authores, nec ulterius progrediatur metus, quam reperia●…r delicium. We appoint (say the emperors Arcadius and Honorius) that punishment shall be there where the fault is. Let offences bind their committers, and let no fear of punishment extend farther than to such as be guilty of the crime. God's law doth ratify the same. The wickedness of the wicked shallbe upon himself. The son shall not bear 
e Ezech. 18. vers. 20.  the 〈◊〉 of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son; but the same soul that sinneth, shall die. Wherefore the Catechism, if he understood what he said, as I truly think he rightwell did, could not derive Christ's bodily sufferings from any band or suretyship allowed amongst men by Law, but only from Christ's love and will, which is above all law, by which indeed he humbled and emptied himself to the death of the cross for our sakes, when there was neither law, nor band to compel him to it.  

f Defenc. pag. 79 li. 22.  Also Cyprians words are plain, and can not bear any other sense than I make of them, that Christ was a very Surety for his people, and suffered such a forsaking of God touching sense of pain, and want of present feeling of comfort in his pains, as the damned do.] I did well to say, you neither understood, nor liked the meaning of Cyprian: for where there is nothing in Cyprians words, that bolstereth your error, you have made such a construction of them, or rather such a contradiction to them, that few men besides you could devise the like. For by them you bring the person of the Son of God in his human nature, that was always full of grace and truth, To have no MORE SENSE NOR COMFORT OF GOD for the time, THAN THE DAMNED HAVE. From which p●…stilent position, though you kiss your hand in it, I wish all the godly to bless themselves. But let us first see, on which words of Cyprian you graff this golden fruit; and then, how true it is, and agre●…able to the faith. Your foundation ●…s, because Cyprian saith of Christ; Thou didst show, 
t Cy●…rian. d●… Pass. Christi.  anxietates illius querimoniae verba esse dil●…ctorum tuorum, quorum personam & causam assumpseras; the pensiveness of that complaint (My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?) to be the words of thy beloved, whose person and cause thou hadst assumed. What is this to your purpose? or how doth this patronise your violent and wicked assertion? The dolours of Christ's complaint on the Cross, that he was forsaken, were the words of his beloved: that is, Christ spoke those words in the name and behalf of his Elect, that they were forsaken of God; not of his own person: as Austen saith of the same; 
u August. in Psal. 21.  That was the voice of Christ's members, not of the head. And Leo: 
x Leo de Passi●…. Domin. Serm●…. 16.  Sub redemptorum suorum voce clamabat. Christ cried (those words) under the voice of his Redeemed. Now this being Cyp●…ans plain speech, that those were the words of his Elect finding themselves for their sins worthy to be forsaken of God; how come you to turn Christ into his beloved, that is, the head into the members, and his beloved into the damned? and then to conclude of Christ, that he had no more sense nor comfort of God in his pains, than the damned have? Such another leap will easily bring you and your followers from faith to infidelity, and if you take not heed the sooner, from the number of the Elect to the rank of the Reprobate, which take so light occasion to draw Christ into the same desperation for the time with the damned.  
Cypri●…ns words (you say) can not bear any other sense.] It is not enough for you shamefully to pervert Cyprians words, but you must proudly proclaim in print, that they can have none other sense than you list to like of; when his speech expressly doth import the contrary. If you had avouched so much of Christ's words, we would desire no better interpreter than Cyprian, who saith, those were the words of Christ's beloved; and so that forsaking had no direct application to Christ's person, but a merciful relation to his members, who might often inwardly feel, that they were forsaken of God's favour and assistance for the time, though not as the damned are.] ME, you think, in Christ's words must signify his person, and not his members.] But Cyprian is expressly opposite to you in that point, and saith; ME there, is as much as MY BELOVED, or chosen members. And for this exposition Cyprian hath the manifest precedence of the sacred Scriptures, in which Christ often speaketh of his members, as of himself, by the very same words. Saul, 
y Acts. 9  Saul, why persecutest thou me; that is, my members, whom I love and esteem as myself? and this is no cavilling evasion; the judge at the last day shall award heaven and hell with the warrant of this speech. 
z Matth 25.  I was hungry, and ye gave me meat; I thirsted, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye lodged me; I was naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, & ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me; and so forth; where in one Chapter Christ calleth his members by the name of himself 27. times. All which are most false of Christ's person, for he then reigned in glory at the right hand of his Father, & endured none of those miseries; but yet they are most true in his members, whom he calleth by the name of himself, because he loved them as himself, & more than himself, since for their sakes he humbled, and emptied himself. And this reason of his words, himself will give before men and Angels. ●… In as much as you did it unto one of the least of my brethren you did it unto me. The same is very usual in the Scriptures. 
a Luke. 10.  He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me. 
b Matth. 10.  He that receiveth you, receiveth me. 
c 1 Sam 8.  They have not rejected thee, said God to Samuel, they have rejected me. 
d Zachar. 2.  He that toucheth you, toucheth the apple of his eye. Where a most loving acceptation is showed of the sufferings and services of men for Christ's sake, but no proper attributton verified of Christ.  
This Damascene expresseth by making 
e Damasc. Or●…ae sides. li. 3. cap. 25.  two kinds of appropriation unto Christ in the Scriptures; one natural and substantial, the other personal and habitual. Natural, as when the Lord in Nature and truth being made a man, had experience of things incident to our Nature. Personal and habitual, (as) when one putteth on the person of another, for pity or love, and useth speech (in his name and for him) NOTHING APPERTAINING TO (the speaker) HIMSELF. According to which, Christ appropriated the curse and dereliction due to us; not himself being made those things, but assuming our person, and reckoning himself with us. 
f Ibidem. li. 4. cap. 19  For neither as God, nor as man, was he ever forsaken of his Father; neither was he made sin, nor a curse. Assuming therefore our person, and reckoning himself with us, (as the head for the members) he spoke these things. For we●… were guilty of sin, and malediction, as incredulous and disobedient, and for that cause were forsaken. Which are Cyprians plain words also. 
g Cyprian●… de Passione.  Quòd pro eis voluisti intelligi, qui deseri à Deo propter peccata meruerant. Thy complaint of forsaking, thou wouldst have understood (as spoken) for them, who had deserved to be forsaken of God in regard of their sins. Then by Cyprians judgement Christ spoke those words neither for himself, nor of himself, but for those, and of those, that deserved to be forsaken of God, whom he calleth by the name of himself, as he doth oftentimes elsewhere in the Scriptures, because they were members of his body, and as dear to him, as himself.  
If this be all that Cyprians words imply, how come you to make that false and 
The Def●…nder ●…pareth Christ ●…n want of comfort with the da●…ed.  profane collection out of Cyprian, that Christ suffered such a forsaking of God touching sense of pain and want of present ceiling of comfort in his pains AS THE DAMNED do? You would feign set your infernal imaginations to sale under the names of some of the ancient Fathers, to enure your Reader with the name of the DAMNED, lest he should detest your irreligious presumption, if you should proffer these pedigrees in your own name. But a man may know the fowl by the feather; and your devices show themselves by the very utterance of them. For expressing two points in Christ's sufferings, the one is sensibly absurd, the other apparently false and wicked. The pain of Christ's soul, you every where defend, was inflicted by the immediate hand of God, and was the self same, which the damned do suffer. Then how could this be called a forsaking in Christ, when it was rather a plain pursuing of him by Gods own hand? Doth a man depart from an other, when he pursueth him, or forsake him whom he followeth with the stroke of his hand? If therefore Christ's suffering in soul came from the immediate hand of God, as you dream; Christ should have said, my God, my God, why pursuest thou me? or why doth thine hand oppress me? and not, why dost thou forsake me, and leave me in the hands of mine enemies without any show, that thou regardest or respectest me?  
The second point is far worse. For if Christ had no more comfort in his pain the●… the damned have; then Christ for the time of his suffering had neither faith, hope, grace nor love of God, nor any favour with God, nor ●…xpectation that he himself should be saved, much less that he should save others; from all which the damned are clean cut off. Indeed this was the conceit, that the devil by the mouths of the wicked did urge against Christ, to upbraid him with his case as desperate, and to pursue him as forsaken of God; and therefore this resolution, that Christ was thus indeed forsaken, or felt no more present comfort then the damned do, is plainly the devils Divinity, and maketh as flat a contradiction to all the Scriptures, as any the damned themselves could devise. For David led by the spirit of God, saith exactly of Christ's sufferings in the person of Christ, 
h Psal. 16.  I set the Lord always before me, he is at my right hand, that I shall no●… slide. Therefore my heart is glad, and my tongue rejoiceth; my flesh also doth rest in hope. And the Apostle saith, that 
i Heb. 12.  jesus for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, and despised the shame. And he that against these express Scriptures avoucheth, that Christ had no more feeling of any comfort in his pains, than the damned have in theirs, I see no cause why the whole Church of Christ should not hold him mad, or worse. But you mean no present comfort.] As if faith, hope, and grace, the assured favour, and promise of God, yea personal conjunction with God, and his own certain knowledge that he should rise again the third day Lord of the quick and dead, and Saviour of the whole world, did not yield him present comfort in the midst of his greatest pain; insomuch that the Apostle saith, Christ endured the cross, (he meaneth with patience) and des●…ised the shame thereof. So great was the joy proposed, and comfort conceived, even in the sharpest of his sufferings. [By present comfort you mean present deliverance.] Mean what you will, your meaning is lewd and wicked, to broche the doctrine of devils under parables and paraphrases of abused words, and sl●…e comparisons with the damned. For if Christ h●…d hope, than had he comfort; because hope confoundeth not. If he had no hope, than did he despair; and so must you admit in Christ either consolation, which you den●…e, or desperation for the time, which must be joined with infidelity, f●…r that he could not want hope, but by lack of faith, since God's promises, and his own knowledge did assure him, that he was ordained and anointed of God to be the Saviour of the world. I omit, that dere●…iction is one of the properties of the damned, of which before you said, 
k Defenc. pag. 11. li. 25. & 27.  there cou●…d v●…terly be none of these in Christ. Now belike upon some new inspiration from the father of lies, you have found, that Christ suffered such a forsoking of God, as the damned do●…. With such mysteries of impiety and contrariety, you da●… be up your new redemption by the pa●…nes of hell and of the damned. But the Apostle teacheth us, that 
l 2. Cor. 1.  as the sufferings of Christ abound, (in his members) so their consolation abo●…ndeth through Christ. And if we 
m Rom. ●….  rejoice in trouble, knowing that 
n 2. Tim 2.  suffering (with him) we shall reign with him: how could patience, that breedeth hope in us, and maketh us perfect, exclude him from all comfort, whom God did 
o Heb. 2.  consum●…ate with affliction, and 
p Heb. 5.  made the Author of eternal sal●…ation to all, that obey him?  

q Def●…nc pag. 79 li 28.  I add unto all this last of all your own grant, where you fully yield, that Christ was our Surety to the Law, and that he did suffer justly, or in God's justice. The vengeance of the Law say you. once executed in our Surety can no more in God's justice be exacted on v●…. 
I mislike not the na●…, but the bondage of a Surety in Christ  The name of a Surety is not it that I mislike, but your concluding from the similitude thereof, that Christ 
r Conclus. ●…a. 279. li. 34.  was bound to suffer hell pains in our steed, and was defil●…d and hateful to God by our sins. So much resemblance Christ had with a Surety, as suffering in our steeds and for our sakes, to clear and acquit us by his sufferings; but that he was thereto bound, or therewith defiled, these were the two points, that I misliked to be drawn from the similitude of a Surety; and herein I said the Scriptures rather make him a Mediator and Redeemer, them a Surety. I say the same still, but that you do not, or will not perceive it, lest you should want somewhat to quarrel with. (
s Defenc. pag. 79. li. 35.  But I overthrow mine own chief exception which I make that Christ was not our Surety to the Law to pay our debts.] When I say, Christ died for us, 
t Con●…lus. pa. 279. li. 28.  NOT AS A SVERTIE BOND TO THE LAW, you put BOND in your pocket, to serve you an other banquet against you be disposed; where if you did love truth, as well as you do talk, you would fairly report, though you did not fully understand my words. I said, it was not written in the Scriptures, that Christ 
u Ibid. li. 25.  was a Surety to the Law to pay our debts; If you have found where it is so written, show the place, and take the prize: you will prove it out of my words, you say; at least if you could; and yet between my words and the Scriptures, when you list, you can put difference enough. But let us see how you deduce it out of my words, that Christ was bound to the Law to pay our debts for us. That he did submit himself to the curse of the Law, to discharge us from all our debts to the Law, I never denied; the Apostle saith, 
x Galat. 3.  Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us, that is in our steeds, or to our use. The Question is whether he did this willingly, freely, and of his own accord, as I with the whole Church of Christ affirm he did; or whether he were bound to the Law so to do, which is your new found faith to defile Christ with our sins, and to hang him justly by the sentence of the Law. You have laboured a long while in vain, saying much and proving nothing; what now conclude you out of my words?  
The vengeance of the Law was executed on him as our Surety.] The vengeance of the Law due to us was executed on him, that of his own fice-will put himself in our places, by his suffering (who was an innocent, and the Son of God) to overthrow the curse of the Law, which we could never have done, but rather by our punishment have confirmed it. How prove you now, that he was bound thus to do, or that the Law did allow us Sureties? You have my words, make your best of them. [He was our Surety.] May not a man as well freely, when he seeth his time, discharge 
A man may a●…scharge an others dobt and not be bound thereto.  an others debts, as if he were bound? must every man, that will show mercy, be thereto tied with bands? was not the love, which the Son of God bare unto us, as good an assurance, as all the bands you have brought in, to make him a servant under the Law, that was Lord over the Law? [Those are not properly Sureties.] Amongst Bankrupts and Usurers they are not, but honest and able men do most desire such. How much less than ought we to bind the Son of God, as if his credit were crazed, or have him in suspicion, except he will enter an obligation to redeem us? [The debt can not now by God's justice be exacted on us.] And why? because 
The rule of justice suffereth the stronger to bear the burden of the weaker.  God in his mercy towards us, liked rather to accept the obedience of his Son for us, then to execute his vengeance on us. Which since he did no way owe for himself, being not only a most innocent man, but the most excellent Lord of heaven and earth, his sufferings were in vain, if they prevailed not for us. [For us than they were just.] far worse were well deserved by us, and reserved for us, if the Lord of glory had not interposed himself: but his willing admitting the punishment due to us in his own body did not make him guilty of our sins, nor worthy of our punishment. [If Christ's sufferings were just in him, how was he an innocent?] Because God is as well righteous in his favour, as in his anger; and no less just in saving his elect, then in condemning his enemies. Wherefore Christ's sufferings were not due to him by God's revenging justice; but in his righteous mercy towards us, he laid our burden on him, who was well able to bear it, and of his own good will desired it. And this suffering as an innocent, with his undeserved death to relieve others, was more righteous and glorious in the sight of God by infinite degrees, then if he had patiently suffered, and deserved it. It was therefore exceeding mercy in the Son to offer it, and marvelous clemency in the Father to accept it; and in both most admirable love to perform it, which is never unjust with God. And this though you for a shift call Law, the Scriptures call grace by faith in Christ, which is not of the Law, nor by the Law, that increaseth sin and causeth anger. 
y john. 1.  For the Law was given by Moses, but grace and truth by jesus Christ. But hereof I have spoken enough before, I may not repeat it for your pleasure.  

z Defenc. pa. 80. li. 7.  Your Similitude of a King's Son entreating for his Father's Rebels is very weak, and overthroweth, if it were good, a confessed point of Christ's Redemption.] Because you coin new Principles of Religion, you think yourself Authorized to make new Rules for Similitudes. In the Scriptures it is not required, that Similitudes made of 
Similitudes are not always of things lawful.  God, or of Christ his Son, should be lawful in every part of the Comparison, but only that they be possible, and so propose the thing which the holy Ghost would intimate. 
a 1. Thess. 5.  The day of the Lord shall come even as a Thief in the night. Will you justify night Robbers because Christ's coming is resembled to theirs? Christ draweth. a comparison from the 
b Luke 18.  unrighteous judge, to God; and taketh likewise a Similitude from 
c Matth. 25.  Usurers and Extortioners to teach that God will have his gifts carefully employed. Will you by that Parable make it lawful to lend money for advantage? Or for men to reap, where they did not sow, because these things are proportioned to God's graces? Christ bringeth the Similitude of an unfaithful Steward, that wasted his Master's goods, and abated his Master's debts; and saith, the Lord (and Master) 
d Luke. 16.  commended the unjust Steward, that he had done wisely. Will you hence uphold prodigality and infidelity in servants, which cozen their Masters, rather than they will work or want? Similitudes we see of things most unlawful are made and referred to God's Actions by Christ himself, and therefore it is no weakening to my Similitude (whatsoever you say,) that no King hath power by God's Law to lay bodily death on his Innocent Son. I do not by that resemblance make any thing lawful or unlawful; but show how evil it becometh Prisoners and Captives to twit or upbraid their Redeemers and deliverers, as if they were defiled, and guilty of their Sins, for whom they mediate and entreat. Of bodily death I spoke never a word, that is your Idle conceit added to my comparison.  
But the Similitude fitteth not Christ's sufferings in our Redemption.] No more doth any Similitude, that man can make. I say of Christ's death, as Saint Austen saith of his birth. 
e August. Epist. 3. ad Vo●…us.  If you seek for areason, it shall not be wonderful; if you ask for an example, it shall not be singular. The Acts of men may in some sort resemble or imitate, they cannot match or even the works of God. But why are you so curious in other men's Similitudes, that are so careless of your own? Doth your example of a Surety fit the bodily sufferings of Christ? I hope human laws have no power, nor practise to take men's lives away for Suretyship; nay they allow no Sureties for any corporal pains, as we saw before, because no man is Master of his own Body to engage the whole, or any part thereof to be mangled or maimed, unless he will be an homicide of himself, which Gods Law doth not permit, nor man's Law accept. How much less than doth your Surety resemble the pains of the damned suffered in the Soul of Christ, as you say, from the immediate hand of God? If men have no power to pawn their own Souls, nor to kill other men's; your similitude of a Surety bound to the Law to pay an other man's debts, is as wide from Christ's sufferings, as mine and far wider. For he must be Surety not only life for life, but Soul for Soul, which Man's Law doth not meddle with. And yet your own example of a Surety serveth my turn to declare your Doctrine to be false, as well as any other. For if a Man fined by a Court for riots, contempts, or other misdemeanures, and committed to prison till he pay the same, find friends that to purchase his liberty, will make present payment of his fine; have you any reason or conscience to charge them as guilty, or partakers of those Riots, or other offences done by him whom they deliver? If men may be Sureties, Mediators, and ransomers of others, and yet not deserve to be blamed for other men's Crimes; why could not the Son of God take upon him the punishment of our sins, and yet be most free from the fault and guilt thereof? [Because God did punish Christ, you will say, with his immediate hand, which he would not do, if Christ were Innocent.] Soft Sir, that is no way proved, but barely pretended by you, that God was the Tormentor of Christ's Soul with his immediate hand: The Scriptures teach the contrary, that God 
f Mark. 14.  delivered him into the hands of sinners, 
g Acts. 4.  to do what soever God's hand and counsel had determined before to be done. And though the wicked be 
h Esa. 10.  the Rod of God's wrath; and the staff in their hands is his Indignation; Yet serve they their malice in afflicting the faithful, when God hath an other end, which is most just and holy, to put his Saints to the trial of their obedience, and patience, in suffering for righteousness sake, that he may be glorified in them, and they exalted and crowned by him. In the cruel and wrongful death of his Son, to which Christ willingly submitted himself, God had far greater and weightier causes and works, even the Redemption of the world, and the demonstration of his Divine power and wisdom, and such like, which I have often mentioned, and therefore do presently pass them with silence.  

i Defenc. pag. 80. li. 28.  another Reason of mine you impugn with marvelous scorn and detestation. That seeing Christ on the Cross spoiled powers and Principalities, and made a show of them openly triumphing over them; Therefore I collected that Christ felt (the devils) as the very instruments, that wrought the very effects of God's wrath upon him. I grant I took it to be not a ridiculous, but impious jest rather than a tolerable reason, for you to conclude, that because Christ triumphed over devils, therefore devils tormented his Soul with the very effects of God's wrath; which every where you make to be the pains of the damned. And surely as yet, why I should conceive better of it, I see nothing either proved or produced by you. First you assume, that these words of the Apostle were spoken of Christ hanging on the Cross; but what Scripture assureth that besides yourself? you peremptorily put it into the Text by saying, 
k Trea. pa. 45 li. 9  Christ on the Cross spoiled Principalities, but your additions are no good illations with me. The place, if you take the pains to turn to it, doth rather show the Contrary. To prove that the faithful are tied neither to the Rites and shadows of the Law, nor to any submission or service of Angels, the Apostle bringeth Christ's death for the one, where the handwriting of Ceremonies, that kept us in bondage, was fastened to the Cross, and so canceled, and we freed from it; and for the other he bringeth Christ's Resurrection, by which all contrary powers were openly spoiled, triumphed, and subjecteth to Christ, as to the head of all power and principality. (Ye were) 
l Co'oss. 2. 12.  buried with him in Baptism, (saith Paul) with whom ye were also raised; and (when ye were) 
m Vers. 13.  dead in sins, and in uncircumcision of your flesh, he quickened (you) together with him, forgiving your sins, (and) 
n 14.  canceling the hanauriting of ordinances that was against us: (and) 
o 15.  spoiling powers and principalities, he made an open show of them, triumphing over them in himself. Ye died and were buried with Christ, who fastened the handwriting of ordinances to the Cross, that he might abolish it, from having any right to tie or yoke his members. Ye likewise were quickened, and raised together with Christ, who rising spoiled powers and principalities, and triumphed over them in his own Person, that he alone might be Lord of quick and dead, of Men and Angels: so that these words, (spoiling powers and Principalities, and triumphing over them,) are not referred to the Cross, for any thing that appeareth in the Text, but to Christ's Resurrection, and take their truth and force from his subjecting all power in heaven and earth under him by his rising again from the dead. This triumph over Satan and all his kingdom the same Apostle to the Ephesians setteth down as a consequent to Christ's death, and pertinent to his Resurrection. 
p Ephes. 4.  Ascending on high he led Captivity Captive; and this, he ascended, what meaneth it, but that he descended first into the lower parts of the earth? So that ascending from the lower parts of the earth, he led Captivity Captive, which is all one with, he triumphed over powers and Principalities.  
The Syriack translation of the New Testament, together with the ancientest of the Latin Fathers, doth not only so interpret the place, but it doth express so much in the very text; that Christ had this conquest after his death. The Syriack translation saith: 
q Syriaca translat in vers. 15. cap. 2. ad Co. ●…ss  By the dispoiling (or putting off) his body (Christ) made ●… show of principalitics and powers, and confounded them openly, (backnumch) in his own person. For kenumah, whence backnumch is framed, in that tongue properly signifieth a Person. The translations which the eldest Fathers of the Latin church either made or followed, contained as much. 
r 〈◊〉 de Trinitate ●…. 1●….  Apostolus de Christo refers ut exutus carnem potestates dehonestavit palam triumphatis illis in semetipso. The Apostle reporteth of Christ (saith Novatian) how putting off his flesh, he disgraced powers, openly triumphing over them in his own person. Neither doth he idly propose him putting off (his) flesh, but because he would have him conceived in his resurrection to put it on again. Hilary sometimes translated it: 
r Hilarius de Trinitate. li. 1.  Exutus carne, and sometimes 
t Idem. de Trinitate. li. 1●….  Spolians se carne, & Principatus & potestates tradux it cum fiducia triumphans eos in semetipso. Christ putting off, or stripping himself of flesh, led powers and principalities (captives) with boldness, triumphing over them in his on ne person. Both which he repeateth in his ninth book, showing how they may stand together, and adding; 
u Idem. li 9  Spoliata enim caro Christus est mortuus; The flesh put off was Christ now dead. So Ambrose allegeth this place: 
x Ambros. de 〈◊〉. li. 3. ca 2.  Carnem se exuit; Christ put of his flesh. And Pacianus: 
y Pacta●…. serm. de Baptism●….  Exuens se carnem traduxit potestates libere triumphans eas in semetipso. Christ putting off his flesh, carried powers (as Captives) freely triumphing over them in his own person. S. Austen 
z Epist. 5●…. & de Agone Christi. ca 2.  often citeth the same place, interpreting the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, (as the rest do) Exuens se carnem or carne; and thereby noting Christ's laying aside of mortality. 
a August. contra Faustum. li. 16. ca 19  Apostolus dicit, exuens se carnem, principatus & potestates exemplavit, fiducialiter triumphans eos in semetipso. The Apostle saith, Christ putting off flesh, made an example of principalities and powers, and confidently triumphed over them in his own person. Where he saith, Christ dovested himself of flesh, by flesh in this place we understand the mortality of flesh for which the body is properly called flesh. Zanchius a learned and advised Reader and weigher of antiquity, not only followeth this exposition himself, saying, 
b Zanchius de operibus Deo part 1. li. ●…. ca 13.  Resurgendo de inferis triumphavit, principatusque, & potestates expoliat as in triumphum captivas abduxit, ut est ad Coloss. 2. By rising from the lower parts, Christ triumphed and spoiled principalities and powers, carrying them captive in manner of a triumph, as is in the second to the Colossians: but he also giveth his testimony of it. Therefore nothing hindereth, but what Paul here writeth, we may interpret, as the words do sound, of a real triumph of Christ's soul (severed from his body) in the sight of God only, and of the blessed spirits, specially since the Fathers for the most part do so expound it, and of our writers not a few, nor the meanest. Bethink yourself now, how wide you range from the Apostles meaning by the exposition of so many learned and ancient writers. Christ rose Conqueror of death and hell. Ergo, say you, the devils tormented Christ's soul before he died, with the very pains of the damned. If any man be so patient to like this Logic, and not to laugh at it, I much marvel, seeing the Conclusion so mere a stranger to the Antecedent, which hath no coherence with it.  
But some, you will say, expound it of the Crosse.] That is more repugnant to 
The diue●… tormented not Christ's Soul on the Crosse.  your purpose than the former: for if not only after, but even on the Cross, Christ had that apparent and glorious triumph over Satan and all his power, which the Apostle speaketh of; then was Satan far from tormenting Christ's soul with the pains of hell, as you imagine. [There was a conflict, you think, before the conquest.] A conflict argueth a resistance for the time, but no prevalence. 
c revel. 12.  There was a battle in heaven (saith S. john) Michael and his Angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon fought, and his Angels, but they prevailed not. And the great dragon, called the Devil and Satan, was cast out into the earth. Shall we say, that the dragon and his angels, even the Devil and his assistants, prevailed against Christ, because they resisted and encountered him? If this please you not, take the Similitude which our Saviour himself useth of his own doings towards the Devil. 
d Luk. 11.  When a strong man armed keepeth his house, the things that he possesseth are in peace: but when a stronger than he entereth upon him, and over cometh him, he taketh away all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils. 
e M●…k. 3.  And no man can enter into a strong man's house, and take away his goods, except he first bind that strong man, and then spoil his house. If Christ then did enter on Satan, and bind him, and disarm him, and so spoil him, that he might make an open show of him, and of all his power; what necessity is there, that Christ being the stronger, should be endangered or oppressed by Satan, farther than he himself would? The conquest was bloody; for so much as in overcoming Satan, Christ lost his life. He lost it not, he laid it down to put the devil to greater confusion: for when he was, not only weak and wounded unto death, but past all help and hope, as Satan in his pride presumed, than Christ raised himself from the dead, and overthrew the whole kingdom and strength of Satan, spoiling him of all his force, and leading him captive with a most glorious triumph in the sight of God and his Angels. And though you can not digest it, yet I make no doubt, but 
f Leo de Passione Demi●…. Serm. 14.  the omnipotency of the Son of God, by which he is equal to his Father in the same essence, was able by the only command of his will to have taken mankind from the dominion of the Devil: but the submission and humility of the Son of God unto death was so unknown and unlooked for to Satan, that his confusion was the greater, when he saw with his own eagerness he had been the instrument of man's redemption, and his own destruction.  

g Defenc. pag. 80. li. 35.  Doth not the very manner of speech import some mighty contention and violent opposition, where yet at length an absolute and most glorious triumphant victory was obtained?] The words import a glorious conquest, but what contention or opposition could there be between the Son of God and the devil, farther than pleased Christ himself to permit and admit? I hope you will give the devil no power nor ability to resist God against his will. It was God's will, and Christ's good liking, that the 
h Genes. 3.  serpent's head should be crushed by biting the heel of the promised seed; for so the Scripture expresseth the contention and opposition, that Satan should be suffered to have against Christ. Grant then Christ suffered the devil, by the violent hands and tongues of the jews to doc his worst (which may be proved by other places of Scripture, though not by this that you bring) what thence infer you? [
i Defenc. pag. 81. li. 1.  This must be conceived and felt by Christ] What must Christ conceive and feel? The question is not whether Christ wanted sense, but what the devil did against him. [
k Pag. 81. li 2.  These could be none other effects, but only of Gods proper wrath, severity, and indignation against the sin of the world. We are no whit the wiser for this answer, though this be plainly repugnant to your former principles, which make the souls proper suffering in Christ to be from the immediate hand of God, and that the devil, I trust, is not. If it be truth that you teach, why speak you not more directly and particularly, what it was that Christ suffered from the devil? Are your mysteries so bottomless, that they can not; or so truthless, that they may not be specified? [
l Defenc. pag. 81 li. 4.  It could not be the revealing of any glory or comfort, which such instruments procured unto him, and wrought upon him.] Make you the devil the author of Revelations unto Christ? It may be he is the founder of your fancies; but Christ needed no such Revealers. Or do you reason, that because the devil revealed no comfort to Christ, therefore he tormented the soul of Christ? These are some new found Revelations, they are no conclusions in any divine or human learning. [Against this you bring not a word.] I need not bring any thing against it, till you bring somewhat for it; but you be far from proving it, that can not, or dare not express it.  

* Defenc. pag. 81. li. 9  What if no tongue can express the manner, as neither have I once endeavoured to express it: shall not therefore the testimony of the Holy Ghost be true, that on the Cross Christ had such a conflict as I have observed?] Few men besides you conclude that which they can not express; but your manner is to prate of your observations, as if they were some revelations, which yet you neither understand, nor can declare. The testimony of the Holy Ghost is as true as yours is false, and hath no more concordance with your conceits than light hath with darkness. [A conquest, you say, implieth first a conflict;] But a conquest extendeth farther than the conflict: for not only the persons and weapons of the resistants are in the Conquerors power, but all the goods, rights and dominions, that any way belong to the vanquished. It is therefore true, that Christ subduing Satan, subdued sin, hell, eternal malediction, confusion, desperation, and damnation: but these things did not inwardly assault Christ, howsoever by the minds and mouths of the wicked Christ was reputed and reproached as a reprobate. The Scriptures than describe the outward temptations and afflictions, that Christ suffered from the malicious thoughts, tongues, and deeds of the jewcs fired and inflamed by Satan to this mischief; but of your mystical, internal, and Satanical provocations and torments the holy Ghost speaketh not a word. I gave you occasion enough to speak of these things, when I told you the devil had nothing to do with the souls of men, but either to tempt them, or torment them, which words you report; but you after your loose manner lead your Reader by byways and crosse-paths, to eye other things, & then you glance at my exceptions, forgetting still, that the reason which you made, remaineth both weak and idle, for aught that you have brought, first or last.  

n Defenc. pag. 81. li. 17.  Before I answer you directly, this we may consider: Christ might, and no doubt he did in his soul discern, conceive, and apply to himself, all the rage, malice, and violence of the jews tormenting him to death, as set on fire by Satan himself, and by all the powers of hell.] You were to prove, the devil himself did work on the Soul of Christ without any means of men, whom he maketh his Instruments for his wicked purposes; and now you tell us that Satan did set the jews hands and tongues on work, to reproach the Soul, and torment the Body of Christ. This that you last say, is most true, and overthroweth all that you would say. For if Christ discerned and felt no work nor force of Satan, but by the mouths and hands of the jews, then certainly Satan had no such inward and spiritual conflict with Christ, as you imagine; much less had Satan any power to possess and torment the Soul of Christ, which is the thing you must prove, before your hell pains will be haled out of Christ's triumph. [
o Defenc. pag. 81. li. 22.  These (powers of hell) also were set on work by the justice and severe wrath of God now purposety laying punishment on his Son, thereby to take Satisfaction for all our sins.] If you mean that God by his secret Counsel and justice loosed the rains to Satan to show his malice against Christ by the mouths and hands of the wicked, as he doth in the afflictions of all his Saints, for purposes to him known and by him liked; I see not how this should any thing help your Cause: but if by this you would, that Satan was God's Instrument inwardly to torment the Soul of Christ, or that the devil had any special Commission to invade the manhood of Christ, otherwise then by the violent hands and virulent tongues of the jews; as it is most false, that you ashrme, so is it most wicked, that you intent.  

p Defenc. pag. 81. li. 24.  Now this feeling and suffering in the Soul of Christ made an other kind of impression in him, and was infinitely more grievous and doleful as touching the present sense, than otherwise the mere outward stripes and wounds of men were or could be.] Sir you have cast out your nets all night, and caught just nothing. We know the devil can not touch any hair of our heads till he receive power from God so to do. This our discerning and acknowledging the hand of God in setting the wicked on work, as you call it; in giving them leave to sift his Saints, as I say, and to exercise his graces in them, doth breed no such fear nor torment of conscience, as you talk of in Christ, so long as we are persuaded, that God loveth us, and doth all things for the best, and that the sharpest trial in this life is the speediest way to his kingdom. If we that be sinful, and frail, subjecteth indeed to the just remorse of our consciences, can yet apprehend and discern the rage of Satan, and of the wicked, armed with power from above to make trial of our Faith and Patience, and not be dismayed nor tormented in mind, in any such sort as you speak of: what shall we think the Soul of Christ, full of grace, and of the holy Ghost, inseparably joined with his Godhead in one and the same person, could conceive of these his sufferings, or Satan's incensing the Jews against him, but as the truth was, that he well liked, and God approved and anointed him to be the Saviour of the world, and the destroyer of Satan's kingdom for this obedience and patience, which he should show in admitting the jews to execute Satan's furious rage against his Body? You would have Christ to conceive, that he was sinful, defiled, hateful and accursed of God, and in that respect God was become an Enemy to him, and had forsaken him; but these mysteries of iniquity and Infidelity were far from that holy, undefiled, and acceptable Sacrifice, which the unspotted I amb of God did offer for the sins of the world. But why shrink you, and shift you thus from pillar to post; and make sometimes the immediate hand of God to be cause of Christ's suffering in Soul, sometimes the working or conflicting of Satan with him, and sometimes Christ's own apprehension that the jews and the devil were set on work by the secret wrath of God; and all this while you do not once endeavour you say, to express the manner of it? where in deed you do nothing but wave to & fro, not knowing where to stand, or what to hold, but only to requoile to your accustomed coverts of Gods proper wrath and indignation against sin, from which you think you may frame what fancies you will.  

q Defenc. pag. 81. li. 33.  In your Book you speak directly against the main ground of it; affirming that God himself did nothing to Christ; that is he did not PROPERLY punish him.] Indeed I do defend, that God with his immediate hand or power did not torment the Soul of Christ; otherwise that God gave power to the Prince of darkness to come against him; and 
r Matth. 27.  delivered him into the hands of sinners, to do (unto him) 
s Acts. 4.  whatsoever the counsel of God had determined before to be done; that I every where confess and anouch. Himself saith, his 
t john. 18.  Father gave him the Cup, which he did drink; to show as well the Fatherly moderation, as the righteous permission of his sufferings; more than which no Scripture doth enforce, though it call that God's hand or deed, which God by his love did approve and ordain, and by his wisdom and power direct and order for the performance of our Salvation. [
u Defenc. pag. 82. 〈◊〉. 2.  The very truth and Gods nord itself is flat contrary to you. Your fancies perhaps be very strong against me, but as for the Scriptures, you use to crack a great deal more of them than you have cause. He that can tell the meaning of jobs words, when he said, 
x job. 〈◊〉.  the Lord hath given, and the Lord hath taken, though the Sabeans and Chaldeans took his Oxen and Camels from him; and 
y job. 19  the hand of God hath touched me; when yet Satan 
z job 2  smote him with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his Crown; shall soon disperse the mists, that you would make out of the word of God.  
〈◊〉 is written, God made him sin for us: Yea he made his Soul sin. Which is nothing 
Defenc. pag. 82. 〈◊〉  else but the Lord laid upon him the iniquity of us all. You show your skill and understanding in the Scriptures. To prove that God with his immediate hand did afflict and torment the Soul of Christ, you note that God did appoint him to be the Sacrifice for sin, and that Christ accordingly did offer up his Soul, (or life) to be disposed at God's pleasure. What is meant by sin in those words of the Apostle, God made him sins for us, I have largely showed before; whence you may conclude, that God did appoint and approve Christ to be the Lamb, that should take away the sins of the world, because he was undefiled, and accepted of God as a most sufficient exchange or recompense for the sins of men: but torment from the immediate hand of God these words do not touch, and therefore you might have as well saved your Paper, as lost your pains. The next words, that Christ made his (own) Soul, (or life) an offering for sin, to what purpose you bring it I can not guess, except it be to let your Reader see, that you do not understand whereabout you go. For how doth Christ's giving of his life for many, prove that his Soul was afflicted by the very hand of God? Had God's immediate hand tormented his Soul, when he commended his Spirit into his Father's hands, by your Doctrine he commended it not to rest, but to Torment. [This is nothing else, you say, but the Lord laid upon him the iniquity of ut all. Then none of these three Texts come any thing near your intention, that God with his own hand laid the punishment of our sins on Christ, since the last word, by which you expound the rest, inferreth no more, but that God caused or made our sins to come against him. In which words, as in all the rest implying any such thing, the Prophet meaneth; God was the Supreme Cause and Author of all Christ's sufferings, which I no way deny; but not the immediate executioner with his own hand, as you have lately devised, and now would prove, if you could tell how.  
This Phrase in the Scriptures, that God DID these or these things, concludeth not that he did them with his immediate hand, but that he was the Decreer, director, and disposer of those things by his just judgement to punish sin, or by his wisdom to make trial of his Saints; God using for his Ministers and executioners, Men or Angels, good or bad, as seemed best to his heavenly will and Counsel. 
b Amos 3.  Is there any evil in the City, and the Lord hath not done it? saith Amos. Where he doth not ascribe all evil of punishment to the immediate hand of God, but to the Sovereign judgement and power of God appointing and ordering what shall be done. 
c Esa. 45.  I am the Lord, there is none other; making Peace, and creating evil. In both God had and hath his Instruments, though in both his will and power did and doth prevail. When David had sinned by kill Vriah, and taking his wife, God thus threatened him by Nathan the prophet. 
d 2. Sam. 12.  I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own bouse, and will take thymives before thine eyes, and give them to thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this Sun. For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel and the Sun. Shall we attribute Absalon's unnatural rebellion against his father, and his most shameless incest to God's immediate hand, and so make God the only author of so horrible sin, which is the height of all wickedness? Or did God by his just judgement give liberty to Satan to lead Absalon, that ambitious murderer of his eldest brother, by the wicked counsel of Achitophel to this impudent villainy? So when job saith, The Lord hath given, and the Lord hath taken it; did he mean that God took it with his immediate hand? or that God by his righteous judgement did enlarge the devil, and those wicked robbers to make trial of him by the loss of his goods and children? 
e job. 2.  Stretch out thine hand, and touch his bones and his flesh, said Satan to God, when he desired leave to strike jobs body. Whereupon Saint Austen saith. 
f August. ad Simplicianum. li. 2. Epist. 1.  Manum Domini appellabat permissam à Domino manum suam, id est, ipsam potestatem quam volebat accipere. The hand of the Lord (Satan) calleth his own hand permitted by God, that is, the power and leave which he would receive. God himself thus speaketh of the Assyrians, that oppressed his people. 
g Esa. 10.  O Ashur, the rod of my wrath; the staff in their hands is mine indignation. God then useth the wicked both men and Angels, to execute his judgements, and exercise his servants, though they have no such knowledge or purpose; and their rage and deeds he calleth his anger and acts, because he giveth them power and leave, without which they could not stir to hurt any of his creatures, much less any of his servants. Which Christ signified to Pilate, when he said; 
h john. 19  Thou couldst have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above.  

i Defenc. pag. 82. li. 7.  The Prophet saith, the Lord delighted to bruise him, and afflicted him, or slew him.] In points of faith undoubted, men may dally with diversity of significations, and do no hurt; but if you will erect new religions, and then justify your inventions with 
What the Prophet's fore tol ●…e of Christ's sufferings, that the 〈◊〉 firm was verified.  new translations to your liking, you bring us now not the word of God, but the humour of your own head. If I may be allowed the like liberty, I can soon cool the fire of your words, by the same rules that you kindle them. For the words may signify; The Lord would humble him and made him expectant, (or patient.) The proper significations of the words, you will say, must be preferred. But none of them can be verified of Christ's sufferings, at the least if we believe your Lexicon. For dacha, with you, is to bruise or beat to powder, and ch●…l properly noteth the labour of Women in childbirth, as chalah doth to be painfully sick; which things agree not properly to the Passion of Christ. Since then we must be forced to the consequent or adherent significations of the words, mine have as good right to be received as yours. How beit to direct the Reader the safest way in this case; Neither you, nor I must intrude our devices upon the words of God, but what the Evangelists describe in Christ's sufferings, that without Question the Prophets foresaw, and foretold in their Predictions. The words then of the Prophets must not infer any new fancies of yours, nowhere confirmed in the Evangelists; but what the Gospel witnesseth Christ did suffer, that Esay foresaid Christ should susfer. The immediate hand of God tormenting the Soul of his Son, is no where testified in the Gospel: It was therefore no where foreshowed in the Prophets. But the true & accustomed translation may stand for good; the Lord would bruise him or humble him, and made him weak. And where you catch hold of the word khaphets, as if it were Gods own action, because he took pleasure and delight therein, besides that the word signifieth to be willing and content as well as to desire and delight, that part of your exposition refuteth the rest. For God taketh no pleasure in punishing, as the Prophet confesseth of him, 
k Lament. 3. vers. 33.  He doth not punish with the hart; and as he witnesseth of himself, 
i Azech 1●…. vers. 32.  I take no pleasure in the death of him that dieth. Where you must either translate the words, that God took pleasure to humble and weaken his Son to try his obedience and patience; or else that for our sakes rather than we should perish, God was content, or would bruise him with stripes and wounds due to us, and made him taste of our Infirmities; yet neither way convinceth, that God did this with his own hand. For 
m Psal. 116.  The death of his Saints is precious (which is as much as pleasant) in his sight; and then most precious, when with Faith and Patience they despise for God's cause, all that their pursuers can do unto them.  

n Defenc. pa. 82. li. 8.  The Apostles do acknowledge that both the counsel and hand of God was in Christ's punishment.] The place which you bring, Acts 4. verse 28, doth clearly confute your erroneous conceit, and answer all that hitherto you have cited to the contrary. 
o Acts. 4.  Against thine holy Son jesus both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, gathered themselves together, to doc what soever thy hand and counsel had determined before to be done. Let the simplest that is, here judge, whether the Apostles in this their prayer acknowledge any thing done to Christ in his sufferings by Gods own hand without all means, as you imagine; or whether they do not expressly avouch, that both rulers and people of jews and Gentiles were Gods means to do that, which his hand and counsel had before determined to be done. So that Christ was not left to the will and power of his enemies, to doc with him what they would, but to do that unto him, which Gods wisdom determined, and hand guided to be done. here apparently is the hand of God named and confessed, but mediate; that is, ordering and disposing the jews rage and violence according to God's foresetled counsel. Wherein the goodness of your judgement and cause appeareth, that when you should prove any thing, you produce places that evidently impugn your purpose. With like discretion you cite that which followeth. For what if God condemned (that is, abolished) sin in the flesh, (of which words I have spoken enough before) doth that imply, that God punished Christ's Soul or body with his immediate hand? Small store of proofs you have for your upstart doctrine of God tormenting Christ's soul with his immediate hand, when you turn aside to texts, that no way mention any such matter, and prate in your pride, that the word of God is flat contrary to me.  

p Defenc. pa. 82. li. 12.  God's own hand than did smite Christ, and inflicted on him whatsoever he suffered, as the condemnation of sin. Well leapt; From God's hand using the jews and Gentiles as his means to do to Christ whatsoever his counsel had determined, you step to Gods own hand, excluding all means; directly against the profession of the Apostles, and the whole Church with them, and against the tenor of the new Testament, which sharply rebuketh the rage and wickedness of the jews, that put Christ to death. Were you not carried with the spirit of slumber and giddiness, could you thus loosely conclude so weighty causes, not only without, but against the Scriptures? [
q Ibid. li. 16.  The punishment ordained for sin by the justice of God, and inflicted by the hand of God (whatsoever mean it pleaseth him to use) is called the wrath of God, as you acknowledge.] My words make as much for you, as the Apostles did even now, when they expressly contradicted you; but such as your cause is, such is your conscience; you duck and dive, you care not where nor whether, so you may have a general Phrase to bear you above water, when you are out of breath. You set yourself to prove that God with his immediate hand afflicted the Soul of Christ; and when your proofs fail you, you catch up my words avouching 
r Conclus. pa. 245. li. 31.  the punishment ordained for sin by God's justice, or inflicted on us by God's hand (WHATSOEVER MEAN HE VS●…) is called the wrath of God. Would you hence infer, that because God useth means, therefore he useth no means, but inflicteth all punishment of sin with his immediate hand? Or because all punishments great and small on us, or on whomsoever, come from the Sovera gne power & hand of God, therefore God useth no means? Or what other absurd conceit would you collect out of my words? I speak not here of the Reprobate, I speak of all mankind, though you leave out my words (inflicted ON US) of purpose to serve your own sense. Neither do I say it is Gods eternal or spiritual wrath, but all afflictions imposed on us for sin, by what means soever, are in the Scriptures called the wrath of God, as I have else where showed, albeit they tend not to damnation, nor destruction. What is this to God's immediate hand punishing the Soul of Christ? Or which way recall you this to the Conquest, that Christ had over Satan and all his power, wherewith you began?  

s Defenc. pag. 82. li ●…8.  Then how may we think Gods infinite justice and power punished Christ?] You must go by thoughts indeed, and neither by warrant, nor word of holy Scripture. How Christ bore our sins in his body on the tree, and gave the same to be 
t Matth. 26.  broken for us, and 
t 1. Pet. 2.  his blood to be shed for many, for the remission of sins; we shall need no thoughts nor concerts of yours: the description of his sufferings is so particularly and precisely set down in the Scriptures, that no man doubteth thereof besides you, that respect moreyour secret sansies, than the public histories of the Evangelists. 
x Defenc. pag. 82. li. 21.  In his spirit certain●…●…e suffered spiritual and incomprehensible punishments being no sins such as men's souls are subject unto, as from God.] Though by no learning you can truly derive any such thing from the Scriptures, touching the tormenting of Christ's soul by the immediate hand of God, yet your conceit is so strong, that you CERTAINLY avouch any thing. For in these few words you presume more than you will prove whiles you live; to make God with his immediate hand to afflict the soul of Christ with the same pains, that the damned are tormented; and other reason for it you have none, but because all power in heaven, earth, and hell is from God; and called the hand of God. By which the Scriptures do not imply the immediate hand of God, but his power working by means appointed and established by him. In the Scriptures God is every where proclaimed to be THE LORD OF HOSTS, and therefore as there is no power in Angels, Devils, Men or other creatures, that cometh not from him, so they are not idle armies, nor lookers on, but are endued with power from God as well to protect, as to punish where, when, how, and whom they shall be appointed. Which the wisdom and power of God hath ordained and settled, not to shorten his arm nor to weaken his strength as needing assistants, but by constituting Servants and Ministers under him, to let men and Angels, good and bad, continually behold how mighty and wise, righteous and glorious he is, that wanteth no means to execute his will, and yet directeth all things by his wisdom. Is not God able to prefer and keep his Saints by his word or his will without aid of others? who doubteth it? And yet 
y Psal. 91.  He giveth his Angel's charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. And 
z Psal. 34.  the Angel of the Lord pitcheth round about them, that fear him and delivereth them Is he not able also to punish with his own hand, & to revenge his enemies without help of his creatures? Who denieth it, that knoweth what belongeth to a God? And yet David prayed thus against his enemies. 
a Psal. 35.  Let them be as chaff before th●…●…nd, & the Angel of the Lord scatter them. Let their way be dark & slippery, & the angel of the Lord persecute them. And the Psalmist, describing the plagues powered out on 
b Psal. 78.  Egypt, saith; God rest upon th●… the fierceness of his anger, indignation wrath, & vexation; 〈◊〉 the sen●…ing in of evil angels (amongst them.) God then in this life useth men & angels to per●…orme his judgements, & chiefly the devil is used againstsinners, as we may see by the Apostles ●…peech and course, who delivered heinous offenders unto Satan, as unto the public tormentor appointed by God to execute vengeance; wherein though he were to have power & leave from God, yet execution was allotted to him.  
The ancient Fathers have duly observed so much out of the Scriptures. 
c August. ad. Simpli. ●…anum. li. 2. quaest. 1.  V●…itur Deus ministres eitam malis 〈◊〉 ad vindictam malorum, vel ad bonorum probatio●…m. God useth as his ministers evil spirits, saith Austen, to revenge the wicked, and to try the good. Saint jerom. 
d Hierony. in Io●…l. cap. 2.  Non solum homines ministri s●…t, & ultores ira eius, sed etiam contrariae fortitudines, quae appellantur furor & ira Dei. Not only men are Gods ministers, and reuen●… of his wrath, but also the contrary powers (which are devils) are called the wrath and displeasure of God. For 
e 〈◊〉.  as the Babilo●…ans punishing jerusalem are called Gods armies so wicked angels are called Gods hosts and camps, whiles they execute the Lords will. I 〈◊〉 s●… Basile. 
f Basil. ●… Psal. 3●….  Evil spirits which execute punishment on the wicked and the powers that serve 〈◊〉 in that sort) are called the Anger and wrath (of God.) And that this was a received opinion amongst Christians, jerom giveth testimony, where he saith. 
g Hierony in 〈◊〉 cap. 30.  Pl●…rique 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…am ●…uroris Domini Diabolum interpretantur, cui tradimur ad puniendum. The most of our men interpret the wrath of God's fury to be the devil, to whom we are delivered to be punished. And to that end this office is assigned the devil and his angels. 
h Idem. in 〈◊〉 cap. 30.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to mentis praepositi sunt. Wicked angels are appointed to inflict or execute torments. Wherefore this resolution is learnedly, and truly made by Zanchius. 
i .  Du●… ad summam sunt officia ad qua Damones omnes sunt a Deo destinati. There are summar●…ly two offices, to which all the devils are appointed of God. One that by their temptations the godly elect may be exercised in patience and humility, and so their salvation more and more ●…urdered: the other, that God by them, as his ministers and executioners, 〈◊〉 spiritual and corporal punishments on th●… wicked reprobate. 
k Ibidem.  Id quod maxim 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fine seculi etc. Which shall most be seen in the end of the world, when God shall perform that the devils shall be tormented themselves, and torment others in the place of eternal punishments. You take the devils office from him, and impose it on God himself, making him the tormentor of damned souls, with his immediate hand, to which incomprehensible punishments as you call them, you subject the soul of Christ on the cross, without ground or grant of holy Scripture; and as if this were not desperate impre●… enough, with obstinate impudency you say, CERTAINLY it was so.  

l .  Some, God himself immediately inflicted, some he inflicted by means and instruments, but 〈◊〉 his hand principally, which did whatsoever was done unto him.] You told us not twelve lines before, that Gods own hand inflicted on Christ whatsoever he suffered; now you tell us, some God himself immediately inflicted, some by means and instruments, 
.  but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The first is a notorious and presumptuous untruth, no way 〈◊〉 by any Scripture; the next is a trifling cavil, or a pestilent blasphemy: for 〈◊〉 you mean no more, then that God was the principal 〈◊〉 and Appointer how in 〈◊〉 and his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should have power over Christ's body; so God is the principal Agent not only in all the ●…usterings of Martyrs and Innocents, but the supreme and 〈◊〉 Director and Disposer of all things done by angels, men, or devils. A thought can not rise in the heart, a word can not proceed out of the mouth, the hand can perfor●… 〈◊〉 act, without the power and will of the Creator. In 
n Acts. ●…7.  him 〈◊〉, move, and 〈◊〉 ●…ur being; and so have the Angels, all whose power cometh from him, and 〈◊〉 him. But if you mean, that God by his revealed will, or public ordinance s●…t the jews and the devil on work to kill his Son, than you must either excuse them by God's authority, or charge God with the same iniquity.  

o Defenc. pa●…. 82. li. 27.  You can not say, that Christ's punishment was Gods mere and bare permission only.] What you mean by mere and bare permission, I know not; it proceeded, I say, from the 〈◊〉 kind of will and power in God, whence all the trials of his saints and deaths of his 〈◊〉 come, though this were of more moment then all theirs; in that it touched a greater person, and tended to a greater honour than men might have. 
p Ibid. li. 2●….  Nay 〈◊〉 punishment was God: written and revealed will his express and public ordinance, and most 〈◊〉 appointment from the beginning of the world. God in his written and unwritten decrees, in his public and private ordinances, is equally wise, just and holy; that is, he is always like himself. Wherefore this far set Preface hath in it no strength to 〈◊〉 the whole 〈◊〉 of Christ's sufferings to Gods immediate hand. Did not God expressly by his Prophet denounce to David, what he would do against 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wise, and devouring him with the sword? And yet I trust you will not impute 〈◊〉 ambition, rebellion and incest to God's immediate action. What 
q Matth. 24.  affliction and tribulation the Church shall suffer towards the end, what 
r 2. Thess 2.  strange illusions and lying wond●…rs shall lead them to believe lies, that receive not the love of God's truth; what 
s ●…. Tim 4.  heresy and 
t 2. Tim. 3.  iniquity shall abound in the latter days; the written and revealed will of God, his express and public ordinance, doth appoint, foretell and assure. Shall we therefore ascribe all these persecutions, delusions, and transgressions to Gods immediate action? Except you be mad, you will be of another mind. In decreeing, ordering, and effecting all these, God is most just pure and holy; and yet these actions in their immediate authors, persuaders, and approvers, are most unjust, impure, and unholy. Wherefore this prating of God's mere and bare permission will nothing help your false and wicked collection. [But God, you say, appointed Christ's sufferings from the beginning of the world.] As if any thing were new and lately remembered with God. From the beginning of the world all his works were known to him; little or great, all are alike decreed, appointed, and settled with him.  

u Defenc. pag. 82. li. 33.  The whole suffering of Christ was God's own and most proper action.] Most proper is that which is more PROPER than all other, or at least as proper as any. If these words of yours be true, than all that Christ suffered in body, was as properly God's action, as the creation of the world, the renovation of man's mind, the infusion of grace, the mission of the Holy Ghost, and glorification of his Elect. And consequently Christ suffered nothing at the hands of men, but all that is reported in the Scriptures of his outward sufferings, is fabulous and false, which is blasphemy in the highest degree. [
x Defenc. pag. 82. li. 34.  The wicked I●…es and Devils were only instruments to do that which he set them on work to do, though they thought not so.] If God had the wicked jews and Devils ●…or his instruments in afflicting Christ, then was the whole suffering of Christ not so properly God's action, as those things which God doth by the immediate working of his spirit, and power of his will, without all means or instruments used by him. And when all this flourish is faded away, tell us why the crucifying and wounding of Christ's body and shedding of his blood by the rage of the jews, was more properly God's action, than the beheading of john Baptist, or stoning of Steven, or the violent death of any Martyr; in which God decreeth, directeth, and appointeth what shallbe done, though the wicked unawares perform Gods con●…ll by satisfying their bloody rage and fury. If you answer, that absolutely and immediately God worketh all in all, then refer you all the wickedness in the world both of men and devils to Gods immediate action; which is not an heap, but an hell of blasphemies. If you mean, that God worketh all the good which is in every action, but not the malicious and furious desires of the devil and his members, then are you no whit the nearer to make the whole suffering of Christ to be Gods most proper action. For not in Christ's sufferings only, but in the trials and afflictions of all his Saints, as in all the punishments of the Reprobate God hath his most righteous judgements, and most holy purposes, which the devil doth execute, not knowing God's counsels, and hating Gods servants, as he doth God himself; and so by God's secret wisdom and almighty power is made an instrument by his eager malice to serve their good, and promote God's glory, whiles he laboureth their destruction and God's dishonour. Of this S. Austen wisely and soberly saith: 
y August. de 〈◊〉. li. 4. ca 13.  Nescit Diabolus quomodo illo & insidian●… & ●…rente v●…tur ad salutem sidelium suorum excellentissima Dei sapientia. The devil doth not know how the most excellent wisdom of God useth his lying in wait, and raging, to the salvation of the faithful.  

z Defenc. pa. 82. li 36.  Now we come to answer you more directly touching the text i●… hand. Where you would intimate, that Christ on the Cross was not tempted by the powers of hell, because Christ could not be tempted by Satan's inward suggestion, but only by the ear receiving an outward voice; this I suppose also is a singular conceit of your own, without any title of Scripture to prove it by. I can not call your conceits singular, they are so void of all reason and judgement; private they are to yourself, and deprived of all truth, and testimony either of Scripture, save such as you most ignorantly abuse, or of the Church of Christ before you, which you regard not, as drowned in the depth of your self-pleasing paradoxes. Whether I have grounds of Scripture, and the consent of Christ's Church, for that which I defend in this and other points refused by your curious conceitful head, the Reader shall see before we depart. But in the mean while you forget, Sir Defensor, that you should prove this to be the Apostles meaning in those words produced by you, Christ spoilt powers and principalities, which you never offer to do. You deny that I affirm, and without any farther process you presume your fancy to be the Apostles sense; which is your common course throughout your writings. Could you desorce mine exceptions, as you can not, that maketh not your exposition the truer, nor your argument the stronger, till you have justly proved this, which you pretend to be the Apostles purpose.  

a Defenc. pag. 83. li. 4.  What reason can you give, that where the mind conceiveth any temptation, there of necessity must be concupiscence, and corruption of the flesh? etc. In us men it is so you say; I grant it is so: but that of necessity in nature it must be so, I see no reason in the world.] The conceiving & discerning of a tentation is not the point we speak of, but the proffering and suggesting it; and why that can not inwardly be done by the mind of man without corruption of sin, the reason is evident in the Scriptures. For a tentation to sin is not a cogitation or imagination, but a provocation and motion to sin, which is sinful in the Tempter, since it is no less evil di ectly and purposely to provoke to sin, then to consent or commit sin. For which cause the Scriptures ascribe that office namely to the devil, to be the Tempter unto evil; and S. james 
b Acts 5. v 3. Matth ●…. v 3.  expressly and truly deemeth it of God, as from whom being good, cometh nothing but that which is good. And consequently, as 
c James. 1.  God can not be tempted with evil, so neither 
g Thess. 3 v. 5.  tempteth he any man (to evil) saith james; thereby teaching us, that he must first be tempted, or filled with evil, that tempteth and leadeth another thereto. Since than Man in his first Creation was made after the Image of God, that was very good, and void of all evil; though he might be outwardly tempted, because he was mutable, yet could ●…e not inwardly be tempted by his own heart, because he was innocent: for that which was right and good, as every part within man was, could not persuade or provoke man to evil, but like must lead the like. And this is the reason of that general rule in Saint james touching inward tentation, where he saith: Every one is tempted, when he is drawn and enticed by his own concupiscence. The Apostle speaketh not this of outward temptations, but of inward; sending men to the corruption of their own hearts and lusts, by which Satan secretly provoketh them to sin, without external speech and presence, which all the godly would soon detest and abhor; but baiting them with their own desires and delights by means of that concupiscence which naturally dwelleth in them, and not only serveth the devil as an instrument to farther his wicked suggestions, but of itself lusteth after evil, and striveth against the Spirit of grace. If this were not in Adam before his fall, then could the devil work in him by no inward motion of infidelity or iniquity, since the parts and powers of the soul that should suggest either, must be infected and inclined to either, before they could provoke and allure the rest to consent. Howbeit, the question is of Christ, whether he could inwardly be tempted to evil by the cogitations or thoughts of his own heart, though neither consent, nor act did follow; and herein I think you will show yourself to have a fountain of folly, if not worse, springing out of that unquiet brain of yours.  

d Defenc. pag. 8, li. 11.  I suppose you have no reason to affirm (as you do) that Christ in the wilderness was tempted by Satan by outward voice only.] The discreet Reader, when he hath well considered your vanities in this place, will the less wonder at, and the sooner discover your novelties in other things. Have I no reason to affirm, that Christ was tempted in the wilderness by the outward voice of Satan, when the Scriptures directly record the words and deeds of the Devil to Christ, as also Satan's presence before him, and departure from him? Doth not the Scripture expressly say, that the devil took him 
e Matth. 4.  up into the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the Temple: and again took him into a very high hill, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory thereof? Are not the devils words to Christ in three several temptations likewise set down by the Evangelists, Luke and Matthew, whereby he tempted Christ; first to make (the) stones, (that lay in sight) bread; then to cast himself from the pinuacle of the Temple; and lastly, to fall down before the devil, and to worship him? [It was a temptation, you will say.] The words and deeds of Satan were, So saith the Scripture; but not that Christ imagined these things, or that the devil moved Christ's heart thus to think. It is a narration of things done and spoken, not a vision or cogitation what might be proffered by Satan's suggestion; the Devil said to Christ, 
f Luke 4.  If thou wilt bow thy knee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, (before me or) in my presence, all this (glory of the world, which I have showed thee) shall be thine. To whom Christ replied with just indignation; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Get thee behind me Satan. 
g Matth. 4.  It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him alone shalt thou serve. And so the Devil left him, and lo, the angels came, and ministered unto him. Why may not the rest of the Histories in the Gospel be thoughts and imaginations aswell as this, since they have no plainer words nor deeds then this?  

h Defenc. pag. 83. li. 13.  It seemeth rather to be manifest, that (Christ's) temptation was merely in cogitation, and in the thoughts of his heart, so moved by the spiritual suggestion of the devil.] Besides your manifest gainsaying the words of the Evangelists, that the devil did and spoke thus to Christ, as the Gospel reporteth, and carried him to the temple, and to the mountain; you make the thoughts and cogitations of Christ's heart to be inwardly moved with Infidelity, presumption, idolatry and blasphemy. For such in effect were the persuasions, that Satan proffered Christ by word of mouth; which if you think Christ's heart suggested to himself in Satan's steed, and by Satan's means, then bring you worse than corruption into the soul of Christ. For a 
i Prou. 24.  foolish thought as sin, saith Solomon; and 
k Prou. 5.  an evili thought is an abomination to the Lord. What then are perfidious, presumptuous, mendacious, and blasphemous thoughts, I say thoughts suggesting and persuading these heinous sins, though consent or act do not follow? and yet if you look well to them, you shall see false and wicked asseverations in Satan's words, which if any man's heart suggest unto him in the same form, that Satan uttered them, he is guilty of the same impiety with Satan. To show his pride and vaunt his power, Satan said; 
l Luke 4.  all (the authority and glory of earthly kingdoms) is committed to me, and I give it to whom I will. If any man's heart or thought do but say, or suggest the same to itself after Satan, doth not his heart affirm a lie to God's great dishonour, as Satan's mouth did? You therefore and your hobbler, that would rain help you out of this quake mire, by setting his censure in the margin, may do well to beware of maintaining such spiritual cogitations in Christ as proceeded from the devils mouth by the witness of holy Scripture, and are meet for none but for him and his members: and to tread rather in the plain path of the Holy Ghost, that Satan's voice uttered those blasphemies, which Christ's heart so detested, that he could no longer endure the devils speech, when he broke out to such open impiety, that he put himself in God's stead, but commanded him away.  
And when you next suffer any man to reuise your doings, entreat him not to cross you and himself so fond as this Corrector doth. For where you say it is manifest, that Christ's temptation was merely (that is only) in cogitation, your own overseer controleth that as an error, and saith, 
m Defenc. pag. 83. ad margin h. 15.  OR ELSE by some such outward objects, which might work that spiritual cogitation in Christ, as Satan might well know how. What these means were or might be, this Huckster knoweth no more than you do, but it sufficeth some of your sort never to hold their tongues nor pens, though they know not what you say or write. Outward objects to work any such cogitation in Christ, must be by the ear or by the eye. The ear in Christ you deny to have been the instrument that received this temptation; though the Scripture by plain consequent avouch so much. What object of the eye could lead Christ to think, that Satan was the Disposer of earthly power and glory; and that the Devil would afford him all, if he would bow his knee in the devils presence to acknowledge the giver, can you tell? In us, since the soul was weakened, corrupted, and divided against itself by sin, the devil can (when he is permitted so to do) stir the imaginations of men either sleeping or waking, and move their affections; otherwise he can impress no cogitation in the soul, but must proffer the suggestion by some speech of his own or others. In Christ he could do nothing, farther than Christ was willing to permit; the words of our Saviour are very plain: 
n john 14.  The Prince of this world cometh, but in me he hath nothing, that is, no power, place, nor work. So much the devils themselves confessed. 
o Luke. 4.  What have we to do with thee, thou jesus of Nazaret? And since he was stronger than the devil, and took his armour from him, and bound him, and cast him out of others, neither could he so much as enter hogs without Christ's leave, how was it possible the devil should work any cogitation in Christ, but what Christ was willing he should? Now, will, that Satan should impress these impious cogitations in his heart, Christ had none, nor could have any; since with disdain he put the devil to silence upon the hearing of that blasphemous and idolatrous suggestion. Wherefore it is evident, that these things were spoken and done by Satan, even as the Scriptures describe them; and we may not for our pleasures make them imaginations, not actions; cogitations, not speeches.  
Of this opinion with me, have been the best learned of all Ages in the Church of Christ. Ignatius. 
p .  How wast thou not afraid, (saith he) o thou the worst of all wicked spirits, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to utter such a voice against the Lord, if thou wilt fall down on earth, and worship me? Irenaeus citing the words of Christ, Depart Satan, saith: 
q Irenaeus lib. 5. ca 18.  The Angel, that fell from God, is destroyed by that voice, detected who he is, and conquered by the Son of Man. Tertullian maketh the devil to brag of this tentation in this sort. 
r Tertullianus adversus Pra●…eam.  Ego ad ipsum Deum accessi, ipsum cominus tentavi. I came to God himself, and tempted him hand to hand. Athanasius. The Lord convicted the devil first in the Mountain, pulling from him the folds (or coverts) of his breast, and showing, that he was the devil, reproving 
.  him to be none of the Saints, but Satan the Tempter, in saying, go behind me Satan. Vincentius Lirinensis. 
t Vincentius de Haeresibus c●…. 37.  Sicut tunc caput capiti, ita nunc quoque membra membris loquuntur. As then (in the Wilderness) the head spoke to the head, so now the members (of the devil) speak to the members (of Christ) Ambrose. 
u Ambros. in ●…ucam ●…i. 4. de 2 tentatione Christ.  Christus, quia fortior, fancy ad faciem tentatur. Christ, as the stronger, was tempted face to face. Austen. 
x August. de consens. evang. li 2 ca 6.  Incertum quid prius factum sit, nihil tamen ad rem, dum omnia facta esse manifestum sit. It is uncertain, which (of the two last temptations) was first done, but that skilleth not, so long as it is manifest, they were all done. Gregory. 
y Gregorius in Euangel. hom●… 16.  Omnis Diabolica illa tentatio foris, non intus fuit. All that Tentation (of Christ) by the devil was without, not within. (Christ) And so again. 
z Moralium in Io●…. 3. ca 11.  Sic dignatus est haec exteriùs cuncta suscipere, ut mens eius interiùs inconcussa maneret. So the Lord vouchsafed to receive all these temptations outwardly, that his mind inwardly stood unshaken. Beda followeth Gregory. 
a Beda in 4 ca Matth.  All that Temptation of the devil (saith he) was not inward, but outward. Damascene. 
b Damasce. 〈◊〉 fi●…es li 3 ca 20.  Christ was tempted, and did overcome. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The wicked spirit then suggested from without as he did unto Adam, not by thoughts. For Adam's Tentation was not by thoughts, but by the Serpent. Theophylact. 
c Theophylact. in Matth ca 4.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The devil appeared to Christ (in the Wilderness) by some sensible shape. For Thoughts the Lord would not admit. God forbid, (we should so think.) Sensibly therefore the devil showed (Christ) on the Hill all the kingdoms, proposing them before his eyes by some show, or appearance. The very ordinary Gloze could say. 
d 〈◊〉 ordina●… in Matt. ca 4.  Nota, haec omnia corporeis sensibus esse completa. Nec mirum si se permiserit circumferri, qui permisit se crucifigi. Note that all these temptations were accomplished to the senses of the Body. Neither is it a marvel that Christ suffered himself to be carried about (of the devil,) when he suffered himself to be crucified (by him.)  
The best learned of the new Writers descent not from these; though in one point 
Christ not tempte●… by his own heart.  some make a doubt, whether that were done by inspection, or vision. Zanchius. Christ 
e 〈◊〉 in ●… ca ●… Philip.  Was not tempted by provocation of flesh (within) as we are; which Tentation is not without some sin for so much as Concupiscence is sin. This Christ had not. Sed tentatus à tentatore externo, hoc est à Satana, But he was tempted by an external Tempter who was Satan, WHICH MIGHT BE WITHOUT SIN. Calvin saith, it is no absurdity that Christ should be tempted of Satan, 
f calvini har●…, in Matth. 4.  Modo ne intus, hoc est, in mente & anima quic quam putemus passum fuisse; so as we do not think, that Christ suffered any thing within the mind, or Soul. Gualther. 
g Gualter●…s in Lucae. 4 hom. 38.  Neque aliquis putare debet illum cogitationibus eiusmodi, quae, etsi nihil aliud accedat, per se peccati nomine censentur, vel momento indulsisse. Externis tamen sensibus ista obiecit Satan. No Man ought to think, that Christ suffered (or admitted) these cogitations, not a moment; because, though nothing else be added besides thought, yet of themselves they are within the compass of sin. HOWBEIT SATAN proposed these things to Christ's senses. Yea, of the sight of all the kingdoms of the world in a point of time, which some think was a vision, he saith; 
h Ibidem.  Non nuda modo imaginatione factum existimo. Ista enim simplici narratione, ut rem veram gestam, Euangelistae exponunt, & tam diligens loci at que temporis notatio id omnino innuere videtur. I do not think, that this was done by imagination only. For the Evangelists report these things with a simple narration, as a matter of fact; and their exact noting of place and time seemeth utterly to confirm the same. Vitus Theodorus. 
i Vitus Theodorus in Matt. ca 4.  Historia est, quomodo jesus post baptismum à Diabolo tentatus sit. It is an History (and neither Vision nor Cogitation) how jesus after Baptism was tempted of the devil. Aretius. 
k Aretius' in c●…. 4. Matth.  Manifestum est presentem corporali specie cum Christo egisse. Nam incessum illi tribuit, & congressum cum Christo pronomen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 emphaticé declarat; preterea sermonem habet, loquitur, proponit, cit at Scripturam, quae corporalem praesentiam Satanae arguunt. It is evident, that the devil tempted Christ in some corporal shape. For the Scripture giveth him an access to Christ, and the pronoun (to him) declareth emphatically his congress with Christ; besides he talketh, and uttereth words, proposeth, and citeth the Scriptures, which argue the corporal presence of Satan. In Erasmus, Bullinger, Musculus, and others, it likewise appeareth that this Tentation was external, which for length I omit. Yea the Reasons, which lead you to make it an Imagination and spiritual Cogitation of Christ's, are so childish, that they will rather evert, than any way establish your conceit.  

l Defenc. pag. 83 li. 18.  Christ fasted but forty days and forty nights, and so long he was in the Wilderness. Seeing then Christ was in the Wilderness all the while that he was tempted, how could he be Really and Actually on a Pinnacle of the Temple at jerusalem?] Learn first to understand 
Christ was tempted after forty da●…es.  the Scriptures, before you charge them with Contradictions. Saint Mark, whom you would oppose to the rest, omitting the particular circumstances of Christ's temptation, saith in general words, that Christ was in the Wilderness forty days, (& was) tempted of Satan. Hence you would infer, that after these forty days Christ was not tempted; but which way? can you tell? The Evangelist, whose words you pretend, divideth these two, which you join together, as the point between them in all our Greek Copies doth clearly convince. And were they not divided, thence perhaps you might prove, that during the time of forty days he was in some sort tempted, but that he was not tempted after the end of forty days, those words do no way imply. Besides you take foolish and irreligious pains to conclude by a lame consequent out of one Evangelist, that which two others directly and expressly refute, as if you would trip the holy Ghost in his Tale. Saint Matthew saith, 
m Matt. 4. v. 2.  Christ fasting forty days and forty nights, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 afterward began to be hungry. S. Luke is plainer: 
n Luk. 4. v. 2.  Forty days (saith he) was Christ tempted of the devil, and he did not eat any thing in those days. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and those (forty) days ended, afterward he began to hunger. So that apparently Christ fasted forty days eating nothing, and at the end thereof began to be hungry; which occasion the devil took first to tempt him openly, and so spite of your cavilling conceits, Christ was tempted after the end of forty days, whatsoever he was before. Now those words in Saint Luke's text, (Forty days tempted of the Devil) Eusebius and Cyrill, two ancient Greek Fathers, 
o Cyril. de recta fide ad Regin●…. li. 2. de Sacerd. Christi.  read disjoined, referring the forty days to Christ's being in the wilderness. 
o Euseb. demonst. evang. li. 3 cap. 2.  He was led of the Spirit in the wilderness forty days, (where the text which they allege maketh a point;) being tempted of the devil. How beit, it is not material to me, whether we say, that Christ abode those forty days in the Wilderness, or he was tempted those forty days in the Wilderness, since it is plain, that Saint Luke speaketh of other Temptations during those forty days, than those three, which himself and Matthew exactly note, begun after the end of those forty days. Euthymius observeth, that Mark and Luke do say, 
p Euthymius in 4. ca Matth.  Christ was also tempted in the forti●… days: so that it is manifest the Devil tempted him in those days a far off, by sleep, sloth, heaviness, and such like. But after he knew him once to be hungry, than he set upon him, propè & manifesté, nearly and openly.  

q Defence pag. ●…3. li 23.  Chiefly when the Diu●… showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them, and that in the twinkling of an eye, how could that possibly be done really, actually, and externally?] The two things, that stumble you, are the shortness of the Time, and the largeness of the world, all whose kingdoms were showed to Christ; which you suppose could neither be viewed in one place, nor in the twinkling of an eye. For the Time; Saint Luke's words are, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 
r Eras●…i An●…ot. in ca 4. Luc●….  by which Proverbial speech, saith Erasmus, the Grecians express a short time. The Syr●…ack Translation importeth as much. For that saith; Satan showed him all the kingdoms of the earth in a small time. Neither doth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which S. Lukeuseth, necessarily signify an indivisible time, but a short time As where Plutarch saith, 
s .  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. our whole life is but a touch or small stay of time. And likewise Phavorinus: 
t Phavorinus in verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. In a point is a good pause or time to breath. The Apostle useth the word 
u Gal. 6. v. 17.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the spots and scars of the stripes which he received in his body for the Gospel of Christ. Howbe●…t, let the word have his full strength, it can signify but that part or point of Time, in which we may see, or speak, as punctum doth in Latin. 
x Philip. 2.  Hoc punctum temporis, quo loquor. This point of time wherein I speak, saith Cicero. And Lucretius: 
y Lucret. li. 4.  Temporis in punct●… rerum simulachra feruntur. In an instant of time the resemblances of things are carried to the eyes. So that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not enforce such an insensible time as you pretend; though the devil took no long time to show those things, and Christ took less to behold them; for he knew better than the devil did, the vanity of that worldly glory which Satan so much magnified; and since for our salvation Christ had laid aside the brightness of his divine Majesty, during the time of his humility; I verily think he would not vouchsafe all earthly pomp any longer view than the turning of an eye to it, and from it; not that he doubted any temptation in it, but that he despised it as not worthy of his sight, who was Lord of all heavenly power.  
The manner also how those things were showed to Christ, may seem to have some question; yet that doth not prove it an imagination, because the ways were many, by which it might be truly performed. Some think the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, (Satan showed him all the kingdoms of the world) includeth no particular inspection of every place, but a general direction to the coasts and parts of the earth, where those kingdoms lay, the rest being supplied by speech, and not by sight. So the author of the exposition upon Matthew under Chrysostoms' name. 
z Ho●…l. 5. in 4. ●…a. Matth.  Satan showed those things, not so that Christ saw the kingdoms themselves, or the cities, people, gold and silver in them; but the parts of the earth, in which every kingdom, and the chief city thereof stood. For Satan 
a Ibid●….  might most directly point with his finger to every place, and in words express the state, and honour of every kingdom. So Euthymius. 
b Euthymius in 4. ca Matth.  Satan in a moment of time, as Luke saith, that is, in a small time pointed with his ●…inger to the parts of the earth, in which the kingdoms of the world were. This exposition 
c Musculus in 4. ca Matth.  Musculus a man of no mean learning amongst our new writers followeth.  
Satan also might show, and Christ might see the places themselves, and the pomp thereof: for Satan being an Angel, had another manner of sight, even in the body which he assumed, than we have: and Christ, when pleased him, could see whither, and what he would. That the Angels of God hear and see the particular words and actions of all men here on earth, S. Paul is a witness, where he saith: 
d 1. Tim. 5.  I charge thee in the presence of God, and of the Lord jesus Christ, and of the elect Angels, that thou observe these things without prejudice or partia●…tie. And again, we are made a 
e ●… Cor. 4.  spectacle to the world, to angels, and to men. And likewise: ˢ The woman ought to have power on her head, because of the Angels; that is, she ought to cover her head in sign of subjection to the power of the man, because the Angels behold this, as all other actions of men, either in the Church or in the world. From this power to hear and see what is said and done on the face of the earth, even in the secret and dark places thereof, the devil is not excluded, in that he is an Angel, though fallen from heaven, and cast unto the earth, yet an 
g revel. 12.  accuser, and so a beholder of good, whom he impugneth, and of bad, over whom he ruleth. And what marvel, that Angels, who by their creation excel (us) in power and might have this incident to their condition, when as men, God opening their eyes, can see things done in heaven and earth, which naturally they can by no means see? When Dothan was besieged by the Aramites to apprehend Elizeus, and his servant was afraid at the sight of them, the Prophet encouraging his servant, said: 
h 2. Kings 5.  Fear not, for they that be with us, are more than they that be with them: and prayed God to open his servants eyes, which the Lord did; and 
h 2. Kings 5.  he looked, and behold, the mountain was full of ●…ierie charets and horses, round about Elizeus. 
i Mark. 1.  assoon as john was come out of the water, where he baptised jesus in jordan, john saw the heavens cleave asunder, and the Holy Ghost descending on (Christ) like a Dove. Steven likewise not only had his face changed in the Council, 
k Acts 7.  as the face of an Angel, but looking steadfastly into heaven, saw the glory of God, and jesus standing at the right hand of God. Which though the incredulous jews did no ways believe, but stopped their ears when they heard him so say, and ran upon him all at once, and cast him out of the city, and stoned him as a blasphemous liar, yet can he be no Christian, 
Christ might see what he would.  that doubteth whether Steven saw this with his bodily eyes or no; the Scripture being so resolute for it, how impossible soever it be to our eyes. This power to behold things far distant, notwithstanding all impediments interiected, not only Christ had when he would, as appeareth by his words to Nathaniel; 
l joh. 1. v. 48.  Before Philip called thee, being under the fig tree I saw thee (for which Nathaniel acknowledged him to be the Son of God;) but he promised his, that they should see greater things. 
m Vers. 50.  Because I said to thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? Thou shalt see greater things than these. 
n Vers. 51.  Verily, verily, I say unto you, henceforth you shall see the heavens open, and the Angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man. Since than Christ could and 
o Luke 10. vers. 18.  did see Satan, like lightning, fall down from heaven; I make no doubt, but he could open his own eyes to see the remote parts of the earth, when it pleased him, though usually he did it not, by reason he needed it not: for he knew all things, and even what was in man, which the Angels do not; and therefore needed not any such use of his eyes, but when he saw his time; which in this case he might like, lest the d●…uell should despise him, as having greater power and clearer sight than Christ did or could show himself to have. For which cause also Christ would stand on the pinnacle of the Temple without the devils help, to let him know, that he wanted not power to do greater things than the devil urged him unto; but only that he would take his own time, and do nothing at the devils instigation or motion, nor repugnant to the will and pleasure of God.  
A third way the devil had, if Christ would permit it, to set these things before our saviours eyes. Satan is able not only to assume, what shapes he will, and to transform himself into an Angel of light, but also to make spectres and shows of any thing in the air, and to deceive the eyes of men, when he is suffered by God so to do: which not only experience of all ages, but the Scriptures themselves confirm; wherein all 
p 2. Thess. 2.  false wonders and signs are ascribed to the operation of Satan. By this means Simon the Sorcerer so bewitched the whole city of Samaria, that 
q Acts 8.  they all from the least to the greatest gave heed unto him, and said; This man is the great power of God. The Sorcerers of Pharaoh 
r Exod 7.  turned their rods into serpents, and changed the rivers into 
r Exod 7.  blood, and brought 
s Exod. 8.  frogs upon the land of Egypt, as Moses and Aaron did; and other miracles could the devil have done, as we see by killing of jobs 
t job. 1.  sheep and servants with fire from heaven, and the 
u job. 2.  smiting of jobs body with sore boiles, had not the hand of the Almighty stopped him, and thereby made the Sorcerers confess, that 
x Exod. 8. v 19  there was the finger of God. It was therefore no hard thing for Satan to frame the appearances of kingdoms and cities, and show the similitudes of them from every part of the earth, since they are but the figures and semblances of things that we see with our eyes, which Angels good and bad have in their power, when they are sent of God to do his will. Howbeit, Satan could not delude the eyes of Christ without his knowledge and leave, though Satan did not so think. And therefore all these ways being possible, yet I think the second most agreeable to the words, and see no cause why we should measure Christ's sight, (when pleased him) by man's reason, when as he did so many things here on earth above all human power and reason. For he often 
y Mark 4.  walked on the sea; and 
z john 20.  came, and stood in the midst of his disciples, when the doors were shut; and made the ship that received him in the sea of Tiberias, 
a john 6.  to be by and by at the land, whither they went; besides many thousand miracles, which he wrought with his word and hand, whiles he conversed amongst men. Of which, if no Christian may make any question, why fly you to imaginations or visions, so long as Christ had power enough with his eyes to behold whatsoever Satan could show him.  
It was Satan's act, you will say, to show them, and not Christ's. Satan as an angel might see them, and show them; and Christ must either confess, that he could not see so far, which would argue him to be feebler and weaker in power then the Tempter, and so not the Son of God; or else be pleased to see whatsoever Satan could show, which was easier for him to see, that was God and man, then for Satan to show, that was but a reprobate angel, and could do nothing, saving what was permitted. Whatsoever the means were, by which Christ did see that which was showed 
Histories are not Visions.  him, it is evident, that the Scripture directeth us to a sensible view taken of earthly things and places, and not to a vision, much less to a cogitation. For to what end was Christ carried to an exceeding high mountain, if he did behold those things but in thought, and by a vision? Cogitations and visions need no hills, and therefore that circumstance expressed by the Evangelists, refuteth your dream of spiritual cogitations. And so doth the danger, whereto Satan persuaded our Saviour to put himself, by falling from the pinnacle of the Temple, to see whether the Angels would bear him up from dashing his foot against a stone. What danger of dashing his feet against the stones could there be in a cogitation without an action? And as for visions, besides that the Scriptures use to distinguish dreams and visions from histories and actions, what visions could the devil show Christ, except they were delusions? And that Christ would suffer him to delude his spirit, is far more incredible, than that he would be content to see what Satan could show. But though the manner may be dark unto us, yet is the matter evident, that Satan with the show of earthly glory would have alured Christ to accept the kingdom of the earth at his hands. Now the eyes were the greatest provocations that Satan could use in that case, since all Christ's cogitations were righteous and holy, despising all carthly honour and pomp, as vain and transitory; and if the eye could not be affected therewith, the mind of Christ was farther from embracing it.  

b D●…fenc. pag. 83. li 26.  I must needs think, that as Satan was a subtle spirit, so he could and did sometime spiritually suggest temptations into Christ's heart, and yet utterly without all sin: which we at no hand can do, because we are all naturally apt and inclining to evil, as Christ was not.] 
Satan could impress no evil in Christ's heart.  And I must needs think, that you neither understand what a temptation is, nor what detestation of sin was in the Soul of Christ, that you make him willingly subject his heart to the motions and suggestions of Satan unto evil. For a thinking upon evil to detest it or dissuade it, was common to Christ's human soul with the best saints of God, and even with the elect Angels, and was the work of God's spirit; but an inward temptation to evil, that is, a persuasion or motion of the heart to sin, Christ needed not admit without his own consent, (since the Prince of this 
c john 14.  world had nothing in him) and could not give way to any such provocation without corruption of sin. In that you attribute more to Satan's subtlety, than to Christ's power and integrity, being both God and man, and in his human soul endued with the fullness of the Holy Ghost, you show yourself a good Proctor for the Devil, that give him ability to invade the soul of Christ, and to impress in him most sinful and wicked cogitations, which you call spiritual, because they proceeded from the spirit of error and infidelity; not remembering, or not believing that Christ was Lord over Satan, and displaced him from such as he formerly possessed, and preserved his Disciples as well from the subtlety as fury of Satan, that in the end they might tread him under their feet. If then Christ could, and did 
d 1. john 3.  dissolve the works of the Devil, and 
e Acts 10.  heal all that were oppressed of the Devil; because he was anointed with the Holy Ghost, and with p●…wer: how could the devil at his pleasure instill perfidious, presumptuous, and blasphemous thoughts into the heart of Christ? Which if Christ were willing to admit, they could not but infect him with sin; if he were unwilling, and yet forced to endure them, that infirnitie and misery subjecting him to the perpetual motion of sin in his own he●…rt, nothing differeth from our natural corruption, when we diss●…nt from the ●…nticements thereof by the guiding of God's spirit.  

f Defenc. pag. 83. li. 30.  Yea the Text to the Hebrews seemeth to prove it also: Christ was tempted in all things like us without sin. Then was he tempted both outwardly and also merely within: for so ●…re we. A light show of Sc●…ipture will serve you to make a flourish for your fancies. In the beginning of this very Page, 
g Li. 6.  You granted in us, that where the mind conceived any Temptation, there of necessiti●… must be concupiscence and corruption of the flesh; which in Christ might not ●…e. Now you turn round, and will have Christ outwardly and inwardly Tempted in all things like to us; and do not see, that if this Temptation be in all points l●…ke to ours, than mus●… Christ have concupiscence and corruption of the flesh by this consequent of yours, even as we have. Or if you confess therein a difference betwixt us and Christ, because inward Temptations in us (though we by grace di●…ent from them) are sinful, as proceeding from the corruption of our hearts, which in Christ, can not be: then do you falsely and against your own knowledge urge this place of Scripture to prove that Christ was tempted merely within, as we are. Where●…ore the words of the Apostle are very true, that Christ was tempted in all things, that is, tried with all kinds of external a●…ictions and unsinfull affections as we are; but as for the internal motion and provocation of the hart to sin, which is in us, that could not be in Christ, because the Apostle in express words excepteth from Christ all commun●…on of sin with us.  

h Defenc. pag. 83. li. 33.  This was merely by conceiving and considering of Satan's wicked spiritual motion in his spirit, which it was p●…ssible he might d●…e without any yielding thereto.] The conceiving 
The heart suggesting evil sinneth.  and considering of Satan's motion to sin, is no sin; but for our hearts to suggest wicked motions and persuasions to sin either of themselves, or as Satan's Instruments, when our spi●…ts di●…ent, that is the natural and sinful corruption of our flesh, which we can not avoid; and yet is it sin nevertheless in us, though it be inborn and involuntary. What then was it for Christ, when Satan had no power over him, nor right in him, to make his hart of his own accord the devils Instrument to suggest wicked cogitations and persuasions unto him, as you defend in this place he did, but to give place to the devil to fill his hart with wicked spiritual motions, as you call them? which God forbid, should come within any Christian man's hart. And therefore if ignorance carry you to th●…s conceit, recall it in time; if Pride, for my part I must needs de●…st ●…t as much as I do any point in all your Defence.  

Defen●…. pag. 83. li. 37.  Thus t●…en it was possi●…le, and most likely it is also, that Christ was assaulted and wrastl●… withal by the devils spiritual suggestions now when in his most bitter Agony he hanged on the Crosse. In steed●… of full and infallible proofs to justify your strange conceits, you pretend possibilities and probabilities, which to me are nothing else but ignorant, and absurd imp●…eties. For you labour tooth and nail to show the holiness of your cause, by drawing the Son of God within the limits of our sins, not only a●…●…earing them on the Cross in his Body, which the Scriptures affirm; but as desi●… with th●…m, and hateful to God for them, and guilty of them, not by Imputation alone, where you first began; but by the violent and inward impression thereof in Christ's hart, and on Christ's Spirit, through the working of Satan. And the sins, wherewith you would have Christ's own hart by Satan's Instigation assault him in the Wilderness, were no less than distrust in God, presumption to tempt God, and blasphemous adoring of the devil, besides a manifest and malicious dishonour to God, that Satan gave all the kingdoms of the earth to whom he would. And on the Cross you ascribe to Christ in like manner the spiritual and inward cogitations of reprobation, dereliction, malediction, confusion, desperation and damnation, wherewith his own hart tempted him, as you would have it, by the devils spiritual suggestions: since this is the inward conflict, which you dream Christ had with the powers of hell not outwardly filling his ears with these reproaches from the mouths of his bla●…phemous Persecutors, as the Scriptures witness; but the devil inwardly so distracting and dividing Christ's thoughts, that his own cogitations by your ungodly resolutions prompted and suggested these things unto him, as thereto stirred and incensed by Satan.  

k Defenc. pa. 84. li. 5.  You say he was tempted of Sat●…n all the time of his abode here on earth.] I have no doubt, but Satan did what he could as well by flatteries, as by contumelies to sift the soul of Christ all the time of his abode here on earth: but he did not this with his own voice, save only in the wilderness; by others he did it, and sometimes by such as were near about Christ; as when Peter 
l Matth. 16.  took him aside, and said, Master spare thyself, this shall not be unto thee. To whom Christ replied, Get thee behind me Satan, thou art an offence unto me, because thou savourest not the things that are of God, b●…t of m●…n. Where Christ sharply rebuked Peter's counsel and love as stirred by Satan, under show of good will to hinder him in his purpose of man's Redemption. But I never said, as you allege my words, that Christ was tempted by Satan all the time of his ●…ode on earth; by which you would have men believe, that I confess Satan inwardly tempted Christ all his life long. My words are, He 
m Con●…lus. pa. 283. li. ●…4.  was tempted in the desert by Satan himself, and by Satan's members all the time of his abode on earth. [
n Defenc. pag. 84. li. 6.  Then you deny not, but now even on the cross Christ was tempted and ass●…lted by Satan, that is by Satan's instruments moved and enraged by him. That men may be the devils instruments in persuading or pursuing others, both which are called temptations, there is no cause why any man should doubt; and if these external temptations could have sufficed your humorous head, you needed not to have plunged yourself so dangerously, as you have done, into the spiritual cogitations of Christ's heart leading and moving him to sin in Satan's steed. Yea rather you would have seen, that as men cannot be Satan's willing instruments in this case, but they must be partakers of Satan's wickednes●…e, so the heart and thoughts of Christ could not be Satan's means to suggest any sin to Christ in Satan's place, because every part and thought of Christ was holy and undefiled. God himself conceiveth and considereth of all men's wickednes●…, when he reproveth or punisheth the sins of men. To conceive therefore or consider, what Satan by his own voice, or by the mouths of his members said unto Christ, was no way unfit for Christ's human integrity, and purity; but that Christ's heart or inward thoughts should suggest or persuade the same unto him, which Satan and his members did, if you know what you say, you cannot avoid either heinous impiety, or monstrous stupidity.  

o Defenc. pag. 84 li. 9  This is none other indeed but that which in the entrance of this Question here I observed: which as I have before showed, sufficeth to prove Christ's combating as it were, & wrestling with the powers of ●…ell on the cross. Meant you no more all this while, but that in tormenting & reviling Christ on the cross the jews were Satan's instruments? What needed then so many foolish and lewd speeches of Satan's 
p Defence pag. 83. li. ●…. 14. 27. ●…7.  inward & spiritual motions, and ●…mptations spiritually suggested into the heart of Christ? And what proof is this of God's proper wrath and indignation laid on the soul of Christ, that the wicked derided him, as they do God himself? Or is this all the spoil and triumph that Christ had over hell and Satan, that he endured whatsoever mocks and pains they could devise? This no doubt he did, and so did frustrate all the force of hell with his patience, and confidence in God his Father, but he had an other manner of triumph and recompense for the wrong, which he suffered at Satan's hand, except you list to deface his glory, as you do his innocency. Howbeit the Reader may here perceive on what conceits and conjectures your new redemption by the pains of hell is founded, even on your own dreams and devices, which you cannot express, and da●…e not specify for fear of hateful absurdities and impieties.  

q Defenc. pag. 8●…. li. 12.  But you object against this, that outward temptation by the mouths and hands of the wicked is no effect of God's wrath. No is? here you are clean contrary to yourself and the truth.] Were it news to see you wander either from the truth or from your own positions, here a man might take a full view of your idle and forgetful roving and snatching at every thing, where not taking the pains to pe●…use the whole reason, or to look four lines farther to the knitting of the conclusion, or to weigh the words themselves, which you bring, you foolishly mistake my words grounded on your assertion, as if they were mine own intention; and press them as contrarieties in me, which are absurdities in you. Out of these words of the Apostle, Christ spoilt powers and principalities, triumphing over them, you would needs conclude in your Treatise after your dissolute and distempered manner: 
r Trea pa. 45. li. 11. 20. 22.  These principalities are the devils, therefore it is certain he felt them, the very instruments, that wrought the very effects of God's severity and wrath upon him. By the very effects of God's wrath upon Christ in this place, you meant 
s Conclus. pa. 284 li. 14.  the force of God's proper and immediate wrath upon the soul of Christ, as I admonished in that sentence, part whereof you cite to make me contrar●…e to myself. Since then the devils, if they wrought any thing on the soul of Christ, must either 
t Il id. p●…g. 283. li 21.  tempt or torment his soul; (as I first observed) 
u pa. 284. li. 8.  and inward temptation by the heart Christ could have none, (because that proceedeth from concupiscence and corruption of sin, from which Christ was most free) and 
x li 9  outward temptation by the mouths and hands of the wicked is no (such) effect of God's wrath, (as you mentioned in those words;) 
y li. 15.  but rather a trial of God's gifts and graces bestowed on us: It rested, I said, by your own words, (as a consequent from them) that Christ felt the devils tormenting his soul. Out of this illation from your conce●…ts you catch the middle words, wherein I said, that outward temptation was no effect of God's wrath (by you intended in this place) and will needs have it in me a contradiction to myself and to the truth; not seeing that I presently in the same sentence show, what wrath of God you mean, and to what part of Christ you fasten it in this collection; and in my conclusion note, that by the true construction of your own words these things follow upon your own supposals.  
Notwithstanding all this let the words lie, as they do; and God's wrath there not be taken in your sense, nor depend on your principles (which yet in all men's eyes save yours, will be plain enough, considering the reason is a collection from the true intent of your own words, as I admonished the Reader in that very place) what fault now find you with the words themselves, imagining they were mine own, and not drawn out of your vessel? 
z Defenc. pag. 84 li. 15.  Elsewhere you truly acknowledge that all outward crosses and ●…fflictions, small or great, are in their nature punishments of sin, and effects of God's wrath. Now those doubtless are temptations.] But you impugn that saying, when you please, and will have all af●…ictions in us (of whom I speak) changed into blessings; and when the Scripture calleth them wrath, that speech you say is most improper: and now for an advantage you creep to the contrary. For if you mark my words in this place, I speak of the temptations of the godly, which come from the mouths and hands of the wicked, and a●…e trials of God's gifts and graces bestowed on us, which are not imparted to the wicked. And therefore if now I cross the truth, when I say (as you suppose) that the temptations and a●…ctions of the godly are no effects of God's wrath, then have you all this while mainly and mightily resisted the truth, in making this one of the chiefest strengths of your cause, that no crosses or afflictions in the godly are signs or effects of God's wrath against sin. Howbeit you leave my words and make consequents of them full like your own, that is, without top or tail, when you come to oppose my speeches one against the other. For where tentation in the Scriptures is sometimes taken for persecution and affliction, sometimes for persuasion and allurement to evil, and sometimes for probation or trial, what a man will do; you take hold of the ambiguity of the word, and where one place speaketh of persuasion to evil, the other of affliction, you jumble them together, and make the one repugnant to the other. Now though afflictions may be called temptations, yet all temptations are not afflictions, nor effects of God's wrath: otherwise Adam could never have been tempted in Paradise before sin; and friendship, favour, and flattery do more often and more properly tempt or provoke, than affliction, which doth more violently prove the obedience and patience, that is in men. What temptation might well be meant in this place, appeareth by the word of torment opposed to it, when I said the devil doth either tempt, or torment: where temptation, if you will needs take the words themselves, must note that which is no torment, and consequently be taken for persuasion by fair and friendly words or means, by which the devil tempteth as dangerously, as by force and violence. And so neither way you hit the truth, nor can conclude any contrariety in me, though indeed I spoke those words out of your sense of God's wrath, which is pregnant enough against you, knowing that in your reason, which I refute, you made the devils to be the very instruments of Gods proper and spiritual wrath against the soul of Christ.  

a Defenc. pag. 84. li. 21.  You say outward temptation is rather a trial of God's gifts and graces bestowed on us. And is not inward temptation in the godly so to? I pray you what odds is this that you make between inward and outward temptations?] If you know no odds between outward 
Difference of outward and inward temptations.  and inward temptations, you be deeply seen in Divinity. Saint james telleth you, that 
b jam. 1. v. 14.  every man is tempted, when he is drawn away, and enticed by his own concupiscence, which of itself naturally lusteth against the spirit, and much more when it is inflamed by Satan's suggestions and motions. This kind of temptation riseth from the corruption of our sinful nature, and is the poison of sin dwelling in us, the very motion whereof is forbidden by the law of God, Thou shalt not lust; though it be pardoned in the elect for Christ's sake, as all their sins are. Outward temptations have no such necessary condition. It is no sin to be tempted externally; otherwise Adam had sin before his fall, and Christ himself was subject to sin, for they both were outwardly tempted, though not inwardly, as I teach, and the Church of Christ before me taught the same, howsoever you take a pride in departing from the full conse●…t of all learned and religious antiquity to maintain your upstart and most absurd no●…elties, that with figures and fancies you may seem wise in your own conceit.  

c Defenc. pag. 84. li. 29. 33. 36.  Further, Satan might spiritually and extraordinarily work together with these his Instruments outwardly afflicting Christ's body, and Christ likewise extraordinarily might apprehend the same; And thus might Christ suffer most strange Temptations, and incomprehensible sorrows from the furious rage of Satan, and malice of wicked men.] Here are many mights, rashly and falsely supposed of Christ, but not a mite of Salt, or truth in them. Is it lawful for you, Sir Defender, to dream what you list of Christ's sufferings, and when you are required proof thereof, to say; It might be so extraordinarily? What absurdities and heresies may not thus be maintained, if every addle brain shall frame to himself new Passions and strange Temptations in Christ, and all on this ground, forsooth it might be so? Their ears must exceedingly itch, that will leave the writings of the Evangelists and Apostles, and listen to your extraordinary might be. But what might be? Might Christ upon all this spiritual fury and subtility of Satan, or concurrence and cooperation of the jews, have his Faith, hope or love of, and in God fail, or decrease? could he mistrust or doubt, that he might perish, and neither save himself, no●… us? why Role you thus with Roperick Terms, and frights of frantic men, when you speak of Christ's Temptations, as if hell or Satan were to strong for the Spirit and grace of God in Christ, or could sever the union made with the mighty hand of God of Christ's human nature into one Person with his Divine? It may be your strange fancies do often put you to such plunges; but he that steadfastly believeth in the Son of God, and knoweth the truth and force of his Master's words, when ready to go to his Passion he said to his Disciples; 
d john. 16.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, be bold (or confident) I have overcome, the world; will never doubt such dangers as you dream of. For in the world which Christ overcame, is the Prince thereof comprised, even the devil; whom before Christ pronounced to have nothing, that is no part nor place in him. And to me that am assured, the devil could do nothing against Christ, but what Christ himself would, and that the Saviour of the world had power enough not only to resist, but also to repress the fur●…e and subtility of Satan with his word or beck, save what himself would permit, to let the devil see his violence endured, his as●…aults repelled, his temptations rejected, and his whole kingdom despised and trodden under foot; these Tragical Terms of yours are but blusterings of a busy Brain and blasts of an unstaid Tongue, that would say somewhat, and can not tell what; and therefore hideth his ●…isformed fancies under the vizard of strange and incomprehensible conceits.  

e Defenc. pag. 85. li. 1.  Here now we may see how unjustly you conclude, that Satan could no other way assault Christ, as an Instrument of God's wrath, but only by executing torments on his Soul, even in such wise as he tormenteth damned S●…ules in hell.] We see you have opened your pack of strange wares, and wasteful words; and otherwise besides your own liking, you have brought nothing for all this pel●…e and Trash, that you have uttered. My words that are short, but expressing the same, (which you with many circumductions fetch about to cover the presumption of your cause,) you much mislike; and yet if you weigh them well, you shall see they contain the very sum of your devices. To be tempted with suggestions of malediction, rejection, confusion, desperation and damnation, (so they take no place, no●… find no harbour in the hart of man) can have no such incomprehensible sorrows, nor hellish Torments, as you talk of. The Hart by Faith presently and thoroughly resisting quencheth all those fiery Darts of Satan, as flax under foot. And therefore you must either take from Christ present and perfect resistance, by de●…reasing his faith, and s●…aggering his hope, or else you can never sink him into such sorrows, as you suppose. You give him 
f Trea pa. 45. li. 25.  a glorious conquest at the last; but in the mean while you leau●… him not only fearing and fainting, but even overwhelmed, and all con●…ounded with these strange temptations and incomprehensible sorrows; which sometimes, you say come from 
g Ibid li. 24.  the immediate hand of God, and sometimes from the devils, 
h Defence pag. 15. ●…i ●…8.  as God's Instruments working the very effects of God's wrath upon him. And these pains, you say, were not only as sharp as any are in hell, but even the same which the damned do suffer: Now wherein have I wronged you except with too much sparing you? What, in saying you defend, that Satan executed Torments on Christ's Soul, such as he doth on the demned? Your words import no less. The devils you say, were God's Instruments to work on Christ the very effects of his wrath. Now what are the effects of God's wrath 
h Defence pag. 15. ●…i ●…8.  equal to all the pains of hell, and 
i Pag. 12. li. ●…0.  the same which are in ●…ell, but the torments of the damned Souls in hell? [But you would have Christ as well inwardly tempted, as Tormented by the devil; and where you defend both, I reported but one.] Pardon me that wrong; I would have hid your folly, but you will not suffer me. Howbeit I refuted the one, and left the other, as worthy none other answer, then that, where in the Scriptures the devils confess Christ's word and presence did torment them, you without Scripture have found the devils tormented Christ.  

k Defenc. pag. 85. li. 4.  That can be, say you, no other way then by Satan's very poss●…ssing of those souls. Which gross and infernal speculations of yours, (for truths you can not make them) I utterly leave to your own discussing. Are your fancies become so fine, that what the Scriptures teach of Satan's possessing men's souls or bodies, must be gross; and your inventions without wit or reason, must be spruce? What said I in any of these things which the plain words, or main grounds of the Scripture do not confirm? That the devil can not work, but where he is? Will you give him more than an almighty power, to work where he is not, or will you afford him an omnipresence equal with God, that he may be every where, to the end he may work every where, as God doth? Satan may torment the soul, you will say, and not possess it.] The devils that could not work on swine, but they must first 
l Matth. 8.  enter them, before they could make them run headlong into the sea, can they work in men, before they enter and possess them? The Cananite that entreated Christ to have 
m Matth. 15.  mercy on her daughter, who was 
m Matth. 15.  miserably vexed with a devil, received at length this answer; 
n Mark. ●….  For this saying, go thy way ●…he devil is gone out of thy daughter. The father that brought his lunatic son to Christ, confessed 
o Mark. 9  he had a d●…mbe spirit, which did tear him, and cast him often into the fire, and into the water to destroy him: and Christ confirmeth his words in saying; 
o Mark. 9  Thou dumb and deaf spirit come out of him, and enter no more into him. So that the devil cannot inwardly torment the body of man or beast, but he must enter it, and so possess it. How much less can he torment the soul or work therein, but he must likewise possess it, and have it in his power, before he can afflict it?  
The entering and possessing of men's bodies and souls by devils, are no such infernal s●… 〈◊〉 as you would make them; they are the caveats and admonitions of Christ himself. 
p Matth 12.  When an unclean spirit, saith he, is gone out of a man, and returning, findeth his house (whence he came out) empty, he taketh unto him seven other spirits worse than himself, and they enter in, and dwell there; and the end of that ●…an is worse than the beginning. And 
q Luke 11.  when a strong man armed keepeth his house, the things which he possesseth are in pe●…. So that the Scriptures warn us to have Christ dwelling in our hearts by faith, l●…t the devil find them empty, and so enter and possess them.  
Now touching your juniper conceits, that Satan inwardly did work or stir in Christ's heart those strange temptations which you talk of, which indeed were wicked and impious cogitations; or that he did torment the soul of Christ with the pains of the damned, what Scripture I pray you doth warrant these worse then infernal speculations? For the devils themselves confessed, they had nothing to do with Christ; and you make them the raisers of strange temptations in Christ's heart, and inflictors of incomprehensible sorrows on Christ's soul. And where they truly acknowledged that Christ's word and power tormented them, you have devised, that the diue●… should unspeakably torment Christ on the Crosse. So lawful is it for you, and usual with you, to take the fullness of power and grace from Christ, and to subject his soul and spirit to Satan's subtlety.  

t Defence pag. 85 li 9  Notwithstanding this here I 〈◊〉, that howsoever the means or manner was of Sa●… and his furious bands assaulting of Christ on the Cross, it made certainly an impression of most 〈◊〉 sorrow and torment in his soul.] Your single and double vouchers with certainty and warranty are so rise, that no wise man will take your word for a grey go●…e quill. You avouch it and you are certain of it, but how prove you one line or letter of all that here you say? Christ's stripes and wounds received of the jews, were painful to him; and the taunts, mocks, and blasphemies of all sorts uttered against him, were g●…euous unto him; but what is this to the most doleful and incomprehensible torments inflicted on Christ's soul, as you say you be assured, by the devil? The Evangelists express what was done and said to Christ on the Cross, that you disdain as gross; and in your curious, but irreligious subtility, will have the devil not only tempt inwardly the spirit of Christ with strange and most wicked cogitations; (for the devil having by your doctrine power and choice what he would suggest, would forbear no wickedness) but incomprehensibly torment the soul of Christ; and when you should make proof thereof, you tell us you avouch, it was certainly so.  

s Defence pag. 85. ●…i 12.  Christ felt and discerned by that means the very stroke of Gods own hand upon him, and received the sting of his wrath and indignation therein, which then wrought and was revealed chiefly then upon him for all our sins.] Mean you that Christ felt the stroke of Gods own hand by the temptations, or by the torments which Satan offered to his soul? If by temptations; besides that you give S. james the lie, who saith, 
t james 1.  God tempteth no man (with evil,) you make God with his own hand to move and provoke Christ to wickedness, which is more than infernal wickedness to avouch, If you mean by torments; those you teach must come from the immediate hand of God upon the soul of Christ; and will you make the devil to be Gods immediate hand? Choose here, whether all your grave discourse (at your first entrance into this question) of the souls proper and immediate suffering shall be wholly idle, and utterly false, or whether the devil shall be God's immediate hand. God's immediate hand is his eternal, divine, and almighty power, which if you admit the devil to be; I must confess all my speculations, believing but one God, and him to be most pure and holy, are plain and gross in respect of your new found hell, and your eternal and almighty Ruler thereof, the devil. As for proof, I should wrong you to ask for any; it is not your manner to vouchsafe to prove what you say; but to say what you list under certain general stales of words; which are but dens of thieves to rob Christ of his sanctity and glory. What Christ discerned in his sufferings, is never like to come from you with any truth, you follow your fancies so much as your best guides; which lead you to a sidelesse and bottomless pit of absurd dreams and doctrines. You distinguish nothing, you define nothing, you prove nothing; only you wallow in the mire of strange temptations, and most doleful and incomprehensible sorrows; how, why, or what, you can not tell, but the hand of God serveth you at all assays to bring out your misborne and misshapen speculations under some show of religion, because you pretend the power of God. For my part, what the Scriptures evidently avouch of Christ's sufferings, that I faithfully believe; what is devised or added by men's imaginations and fictions, I utterly reject not as false and presumptuous only, but as absurd and irreligious.  
What the Scriptures say Christ discerned in his sufferings, I have often specified, which far differeth from your strange and imaginary speculations. They avouch of Christ, that he 
u Acts 2.  saw God always at his right hand, that he should not be shaken; and therefore his heart was glad, and his tongue rejoiced. And 
x Heb. 12.  for the joy proposed unto him, (and therefore discerned by him) he endured the cross and despised the shame thereof. Christ himself after his last supper, 
y joh. 18.  knowing all things that should befall him, and that 
z joh. 13.  his hour was come, that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, and that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; not only pronounced the devil, for all his coming against him, 
a joh 14.  had nothing in him, but speaking directly of his passion, said; 
b joh. 17.  Father the hour is come, glorify thy son, that thy son may glorify thee; as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he might give them life everlasting. I have glorified thee on earth, and now Father glorify me with thyself, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. With this most assured and infallible persuasion and resolution Christ passed to his passion to be glorified, and thereby declared to be the Son of God. Which the Thief on the cross confessing, received that present day an everlasting reward in Paradise; And the Centurion and Soldiers, that watched him, when they saw the manner of his death and wonders consequent, acknowledged, saying; 
c Matth. 27.  Truly this man was the Son of God. Against this foundation of faith and knowledge in the soul and spirit of Christ, if you dream of any doubt or fear, that did arise in the heart of Christ upon any suggestions of men or devils, you make him a liar and a sinner. His faith could not shrink without heinous infidelity, because he was assured of his personal union with God, and of his inunction with power and the holy Ghost from God, by the voice of his Father speaking thrice from heaven unto him, by the visible descent of the holy Ghost upon him at his baptism, by the service and adoration of Angels, by the power and command, which he had overall creatures, and over devils themselves. Wherefore the least doubt or distrust in Christ's heart, that his person might perish, or his sacrifice be rejected, or that his Father was or could be displeased with him, must needs have been most detestable impiety. And this clearness of faith and knowledge standing fast, and immovable against all the powers of hell, what strange temptations or incomprehensible torments could the devil work in the soul of Christ, the Scriptures assuring us, that the 
d Ephes. 6.  shield of faith (even in us) quencheth all the fi●…rie darts of the wicked, and that 
e james 4.  the devil will fly from us, when he is resisted? And therefore as 
f 1. Pet. 4.  we rejoice, (and aught so to do) in that we be partakers of Christ's sufferings; so Christ in all his sufferings had exceeding both comfort and joy, though the anguish of his flesh were very painful unto him, whereto the manhood of Christ did full mit itself, according to the will of God.  

g Defenc. pag 〈◊〉. li. 16.  Neither say you any thing whereby you do or can overthrow this assertion.] What can, or need more be said against this, and all other your false and vain conceits, then that they have no ground in the word of God, but are covered with certain close and currant phrases, which you never expound, lest you should lie open to infinite absurdities, and impieties. As even in this case, which is now before us; you tell us, Christ dis●…erned the very stroke of Gods own hand, & received the sting of his wrath: where these words, the stroke and sting, being metaphors, design no propriety nor particularity of Christ's sufferings: but any of those pains, which Christ received in his body, may justly be called the stroke of God's hand, or sting of his wrath. So that you secretly carry your meaning in every place with some ambiguous words, which cannot be directly refuted, because there is no special thing mentioned in them, but general and metaphorical circumstances guilesully proposed.  

h Defenc. pag. 85. li. 17.  Our authorised doctrine in England agreeth with me, saying, he fought and wrestled as it were hand to hand with the whole army of hell.] At least you dream so, but where are the words, that express any such thing, as you take upon you to maintain? The Catechism saith, Christ encountered, and wrestled with the whole power of Satan. I say no less, but still observing Christ's own words, that 
i john 14.  within him (Satan) had nothing. You suppose, that Christ's own heart was a soldier of Satan's, and fought against his fa●…th by serving the devils turn; the Catechism saith no such thing. Satan with all his power and policy, force and ●…urie did what he could, by the mouths and hands of the wicked to tyre Christ's patience, and shake his confidence, but he could do neither; Christ persisting in most perfect patience, faith, and obedience to the very breathing out of his soul. To aggravate the pains of Christ's stripes and wounds, Satan omitted no mean, that by men he could execute. To undermine and batter Christ's faith, the devil opened the mouths of the 
k Luke 23.  People, that gazed on him; of the high 
l M●…k 15.  Priests and 
k Luke 23.  Rulers, that conspired against him; of the Scribes and pharisees that derided him; of the ˡ Passengers, that shook their heads at him; of the 
m Matth 27.  Soldiers, that crucified him; of the Thief, that hung with him; to mock, revile, and blasphem●… him; as falsely calling himself the Son of God, and forsaken of God, and left unable to save or help himself. Their temptations the Scriptures do specify, which were sufficient to try the steadfastness of Christ's faith and hope; of others they make no mention. And to these, or any other if you think Christ's heart did yield but by fearing or doubting, whether their words were true or no, you take from him all assurance of faith, and place him in the midst between fidelity and infidelitle, hope and despair, as not resolved whether God would deceive him, and forsake him under the burden of our sins, and his sufferings. This perplexity would indeed have been a strange temptation, and horrible torment of mind, but withal a manifest fail in faith, and eclipse of hope, which if you take from Christ, you rob him not only of his comfort, confidence, and glory; but even of all piety, patience, and obedience for that time, as doubting whether God were faithful in his promise, and whether the conjunction of God and man in his person might be severed and dissolved or no. But of these temptations, fears, and sorrows, I wish you to take heed, lest if you defile the merits, or diminish the graces of his sufferings, you declare your self to be any thing rather than a Christian, and to have no part in the kingdom of God, and of Christ, by dishonouring the Father, and the Son to serve your own fancies.  

n Defence pag. 85. li. 20.  Where you detest my sense of the Apostle in this place, and yet give no inkling of any other sense at all, it is more than half a conclusion against you, that my interpretation of it is unjustly by you reproved.] Such conclusions do well become a man of your judgement. 
The Defender ●…ainly presumeth all places of his unanswered, to be granted.  As though I must be bound to make Commentaries upon all the Scriptures, which you abuse, or else you will take the truth tardy by my default. It sufficed good Sir, that your application had neither coherence with the Apostles words, nor derivance from them; and so was worthily rejected as void of all reason and sense. For this, that Christ's soul was inwardly tempted, and tormented by devils, because he triumphed over them most gloriously, this, I say, to all wise men is rather a meriement or a prattlement, than an argument. That they resisted, or invaded, might happily be collected, not from the force of those words, but from the disposition of such enemies: yet which way they invaded, or how far they prevailed, can no way be thence conjectured, though it be strongly by you conceited. The Apostles words as I have showed, may either declare the glory of Christ's resurrection, wherein all knees of things in heaven, earth, and hell did bow, and stoop unto him rising from the dead; or, as some apply them, express the power and glory of his Passion, in which by the perfection of his innocence, patience, and obedience, he spoiled sin and Satan of all their right and force over his Elect, and carried all his Enemies as Captives in an open show before God and his Angels, notwithstanding all the instance, or resistance they could make. From either of these senses how you can infer, that Satan tormented the Soul of Christ, or that he impressed in Christ's hart spiritual wicked cogitations or motions, I verily do not see, except you have a Patent to make Conclusions contrary to their Premises.  

o Defenc. pa. 85. li. 25.  Then you come to confute my fourth Reason, but the mainest points thereof you have not so much as touched; I showed that the Godly sometimes in this life, do feel a taste of God's infinite wrath, and even of hellish sorrows. 2. That Christ our Redeemer suffered for us as deeply, yea deeper, than even any of us here do suffer, but all this you can here cleanly pass over without any word to it.] The matters were belike very weighty, and your proofs many, that I was forced to pass them with silence. Indeed I neither took, nor had any more time to refute your Treatise, then whiles my Sermons were in Printing, as they know, that had the doing thereof: and that made me the shorter in refelling your Reasons, and sometimes the darker in proposing ruin own; but as for this, which here you complain of, I saw no cause, why in that speedy dispatch, I should trouble myself any longer with it. The first Proposition in some sense I admitted; the second, which you barely supposed without proof I rejected as injurious to Christ, and repugnant to the Apostles words, which you alleged for it. Neither have you in this long advised, and far consulted Defence so much as meddled with the instances, that I gave against your false Collection. Let him that will, read the 286. Page of my Conclusion, and see whether touching the main points here pretended, you were not briefly, but truly answered, and stand yet staggered with the parts there specified. The sum of mine Answer to both, as my words there witness, was this. 
p Conclus. pa. 286. li. 7.  The Terrors of mind, which we fecle through conscience of our unworthiness, ignorance of God's Counsel, and distrust of God's favour, Christ never felt; his Faith admitted no doubting, his love excluded all fearing, his hope rejected all despairing. 
q Ibid. li. 15.  He was tempted in all things alike, except sin. Then neither the roots, parts, nor fruits of sin must be in him: but the Apostle, that excepteth sin, excepteth all sinful adherents. What say you to this, is it no Answer? I would gladly hear what you can rejoin against it. But you, that skip every thing, which toucheth you to the quick, and jest in your general Phrases, like a Crow in a gutter, over leap what you list; and then for a show surmise, that your Reasons and proofs are silenced. Well I may speak now more largely and plainly, but in effect I can speak neither more truly, nor more directly: then I then did. Yet for your pleasure I will not refuse to put your Propositions once more on foot, to see how currant they are.  

r Defenc. pag. 85. li. 27.  The Godly sometimes in this life do feel a taste of God's infinite wrath, and even of hellish sorrows. You commit but three foul oversights in this one proposition. 1. You mar the whole, and make it impertinent to your purpose. 2. You contradict your 
Contradictions in the Defender.  main Positions. 3. You rest on evident ambiguities, or open falsities. What some of the godly do sometimes feel either in Body or Soul, maketh nothing to Christ's sufferings by your own Confession. Your own Rule is. 
s Defenc. pag. 86. li. 32.  In these words Christ was like us in all Temptations and afflictions, we are to understand all, that are incident to mankind generally, not which happen to any man particularly. So that what the godly do sometimes feel (for not only Children and Infants, but many thousand Christians die free from these hellish sorrows of yours) may not be made a Precedent for Christ's sufferings. And where you, or your Corrector would after salve this oversight, by saying in the margin; 
t Defenc. pag 8●… in margin. li. 1.  which though all generally feel not, yet generally is due to all in respect of sin; you multiply your absurdities, you mend not the looseness of this Proposition. For due to all in respect of sin, are all manner of external and corporal plagues, from many of which yourself would exempt Christ by this observation of yours; and likewise rejection, confusion, desperation, and eternal damnation are due to all in respect of sin, from which if you do not exempt Christ, you exempt yourself out of the number of the Faithful to take a worse course than judas, who yielded his Master's Body into the hands of men, where this conceit yieldeth Christ's Soul into the power of devils.  
Secondly, be you now of the mind that the Godly do sometimes feel a Taste of God's wrath? How often have you resolved, and Proclaimed in this Book, that 
u Defenc. pa. 13. li 8.  to the Godly their afflictions, both small and great, are no effects of Gods proper wrath, and now they sometimes feel a Taste of his Infinite wrath? What shift to save this repugnancy, can you devise? [Gods Infinite wrath perhaps is not his proper wrath.] It is the same, you say, that Christ suffered, and since Christ by your Doctrine suffered none but the proper wrath of God, the Faithful feeling the same, that Christ did, must suffer the same kind of wrath, that Christ suffered. Again, can you find us an Infinite wrath in God, that is not properly wrath? What hath Gods proper wrath, of which you have jangled so much, more than Infinite in time, or degree, or both? but these Resolutions of yours be like your Inventions, they hang together, as drunken men's steps, or mad men's dreams. Consult I pray you with your friends, and ask them what answer you shall yield to this forgetfulness of theirs, or variableness of yours.  
Thirdly, what mean you by hellish sorrows? If you thereby note the fear of hell, 
Men ●…ay fear but not suffer the true pains of hell in this lise.  which may often affright the servants of God in this life, is that the worst the damned feel? Have the true pains of hell no more in them, but a fear thereof? Is it possible for men in this mortal flesh and life to endure the true pains of hell, and of the damned? If you so think, you new stamp us a strange, but an easy hell, in respect of those terrible judgements, which God hath ordained for the wicked in the world to come. Will you fly to your metaphors, and say that hell pains are taken for great and exceeding? Then play you with figures and phrases, as your fashion is, and come nothing near to the substance of the cause. So that the one is a sensible untruth, the other is a shifting trifle brought in to lengthen the tale, when matter faileth. And when all is said, so much is sound, as I forewarned at first, that 
x Conclus. pa. 286. li. 29.  fearing, doubting, or distrusting lest God will for our manifold sins cast us from his presence, and condemn us to hell, cometh in us from the guiltiness of conscience, and weakness of faith and hope, which in Christ neither had, nor could have any place.  
My next proposition, which you left untouched, is, that 
y Defenc. pag. 85. li. 28.  Christ our Redeemer suffered for us as deeply, yea deeper than any of us here do suffer, or can suffer.] This proposition no way helpeth your intent, and besides, wanteth both parts and proofs: for if the whole were granted, as you offer it, you can never thence conclude, that Christ suffered the true pains of the damned, till first you show, that all the faithful in this life do likewise suffer the true pains of the damned, which were a monstrous miscreance meet for your new made hell. Such desperate and reprobate assertions, as have no touch of proof, nor taste of truth, you place in the forward of your fanseries. [But Christ you say, suffered as deeply as ever any of us here doth, or can suffer.] Then did Christ by your doctrine not only doubt, and distrust, but even despair his own salvation: for so have many done, that after were recovered and restored by grace; and so you wrap the Son of God not only within the guilt, but within the very sink of our sins inherent, now not in the temptation, but in the persuasion of the heart: for therewith have many of the Elect been grievously afflicted for the time. This it is for a man of your understanding, to wade in waters above your height, and to find no bottom till you come to the depth of all impiety, which you do not intend, but can not avoid by the consequence of your positions. Two lines and less in my Conclusion, even where you complain for want of answer, would have eased you of all these frantic imaginations, had you but soberly considered them, or advisedly sought to disprove them. Christ's 
z Conclus. pa. 286. li. 10.  faith (I said) admitted no doubting, his love excluded all fearing, his hope rejected all despairing. Which of these do you or dare you deny? Whether doubting be infidelity? S. james saith; 
a james 1.  Let a man ask in faith, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, nothing doubting, or staggering: sor let not such a man think, that he shall receive any thing from the Lord. That condition our Saviour addeth unto saith: 
b Matth. 21.  If you shall have faith, and not doubt: for doubting, as Paul writeth, proceedeth from infidelity. Abraham 
c Rom. 4.  doubted not of the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, being fully assured, that he which had promised was able to perform it. Therefore Christ said to Peter: 
d Matth. 14.  O thou of little faith, why didst thou doubt? and to all the rest; 
e Matth. 8.  Why are you fearful, o you of little faith? So that faith is a full and constant persuasion of God's promises without all fear or doubt, that we may be deceived or defrauded. Then must there in Christ be either no doubting, or small faith. And if unbelief in us be sin, what was it in Christ after so many and so clear evidences of Gods own voice and oath unto him? 
f Psal. 89.  I have sworn to David my servant, Thy seed will I 'stablish for ever. And again; I have sworn once by mine holiness, I will not fail David, his seed shall endure for ever. And likewise; 
g Psal. 110.  The Lord swore and will not repent, Thou art a Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedech. After these oaths, promises, and speeches of God from heaven to the manhood of Christ, all doubting and distrusting is most heinous and horrible sin; which, if any man attribute to Christ, he is worse than a jew or a Turk. For they know him not; we do know him to be the Son of God, and Truth itself.  
Set this down for an infallible rule in Christian religion, as indeed it is the foundation of all our saith (for if Christ might be a liar and a sinner, we are but deceived in trusting to him) and none of these inward torments or deep sufferings which you desperately dream of, can be fast●…ed on Christ. So long as Christ's heart and spirit stood fixed and immoved in the graces and promises of God, no such strange doubt or fear, temptation or torment, as you talk of, could afflict him. No force of Satan, no sting of sin, no storm of wrath could confound him, or amaze him. In us these things are possible, because the corruption of flesh, and want of grace often pinch us with remorse of conscience, and remembrance of sin committed; but in Christ there could be no such thing. And all your drifts to make him like us in our sinful affections, and conflicts with confusion and desperation, as they have no ground in the Scriptures, so are they weak and wicked, in that you measure the fullness of Christ's graces, and his freedom from all sin, by the faithless and fearful assaults, that sin and Satan make on the corrupt and irregenerate parts and powers of our souls. Wherefore as I first resolved, so I now reiterate by reason of your importunity, that 
h 1 john 4.  perfect love (in Christ) did cast out fear, and 
i Rom. 5.  rejoicing under hope made him with patience to expect the performance of God's promises, and with all obedience to endure whatsoever the counsel of God had soredetermined to be done unto  
which must be far from Christ? Is Infidelity, and distrust no sin with you, that you make it common to Christ with us? or are doubting and fearing no parts of infidelity? or what fear or doubt of his salvation could incomprehensibly torment the soul of Christ, except his heart did first incline from faith to fear, and so apprehend the grief of God's favour lost, or in imminent danger to be lost?  
You have given us three variations of this incomprehensible and infinite pain and grief, which should torment the soul of Christ, and yet you know not where to rest. The first was unspeakable smart and pain from God's immediate hand, inflicting 
What torments the Defen●…er hath de●…sed for Christ's soul.  the same anguish on the soul of his Son, that he doth on the damned spirits. For this you have neither script nor scroll, text nor title in the word of God; it is a bold and lewd device of yours presuming what you please of God's hand, because it is diversly taken in the Scriptures. From thence you leapt to devils, and made them Gods instruments to torment the soul of Christ with strange temptations, and incomprehensible sorrows suggested into the soul of Christ. Then you made Christ's own heart conceive, and discern from the words and acts of the jews fired and enraged by Satan, the dreadful and painful strokes and stings of God's anger, and just indignation against him for our sins; and yet all these are but the tumultuous dreams of your own head, and certain wasteful words that may be drawn to divers senses, besides which you have neither expressed nor confirmed any thing. Now you begin to make Commentaries upon the Apostle to the Hebrews, which are as clear as a coal, and as sound as a satchel of sawdust.  

p Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10.  First, en ho, in that which himself suffered, signifieth either the 
1 Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10.  matter wherein Christ is able to succour us, or the 
2 Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10.  means whereby he becometh ready and fit to succour us, or else the occasion and 
3 Defenc. pag. 86. li. 10.  reason, why he is the readier to succour us, even in that he himself suffered and was tempted.] Your expositions be like your conclusions, they have neither root nor rind. Here are in show three parts of a division, all which indeed (you say) are 
q Defenc. pag. 86. li. 31.  but one and the same in effect, and so your triple division senseless and needless, the parts importing one thing; and the 
r Li. 27.  first way seemeth to you not the unlikeliest; which, if you put any difference between them, is the falsest & farthest from the Apostles meaning. For that Christ helpeth men in nothing, but what himself first suffered, that he suffered all particular degrees, & special sorts of afflictions, as well in soul as in body, which may befall any man; these are so loud lies, that but you, no man would make either of them the apostles speech or purpose. But your luck is to light on the worst, or your choice leadeth you to fancy the foulest, that you may differ fro other men, & be singular in your own sense. For yourself see, & say, 
s Li. 35.  all the particular (kinds of) crosses in the world neither could nor can possibly come to any man, and so not to Christ. Why then make you that the likeliest meaning of the Apostles words, that Christ suffered all the matter, that is, all those kinds of pains wherein he succoureth us? If you mean generally, that Christ tasted all sorts of pains, that is, both corporal and spiritual, then shall you never conclude, that he tasted this or that kind of pain in special; but it sufficeth that Christ had not only a divine respect in mercy, but an human sense and experience of our miseries both outward and inward, to assure us, that he is compassionate and tenderly affected in our infirmities and extremities, because he himself felt the sharpness of fear, sorrow, shame and pain, whiles here he lived; and hath not forgotten how near they pinch the weakness of man's nature. And more the Apostle meant not in those words then to show, the Son of God would in his own person and human nature feel our infirmities and miseries, that he might have an human commiseration and compassion of us, when we are afflicted, by the remembrance of his own sufferings, which the words do fully fit. For 
t Heb. 2.  en ho, in that (or in as much as) he suffered, when he was tempted (or tried) he is able (with more tenderness of heart) to help those that are tempted.  

u Defenc. pag. 86. li. 18.  Which way soever of these three we take the words, yet they plainly infer, that Christ himself felt all the misery and smart of our sufferings and Temptations, which at any time we feel.] The smart and grief of rejection, confusion, desperation, and such like Christ never tasted, because they are faithless, and graceless, fears and sorrows in us. Yet in these Christ can and doth s●…ccour us, not because he suffered the same, but for that he knoweth what affliction of spirit, fear, and sorrow bring with them, by his own experience, not of the same objects, which are sinful; but of the same affections, which are natural. And none of these ways, which you mention, came near the concluding of any such thing, except you urge the first against all truth and sense acknowledged even by yourself, where you say, 
x Defenc. pag. 87. li 21.  I speak not of every particular in each of them, or which every man meeteth withal. Grant then, that Christ in his manhood would ●…eele the sharpest impressions, that fear or sorrow, shame or pain could make on the Body or Soul of Man, but still without sin: is that a proof that Christ ●…ed rejection, confusion or damnation, because he tasted how deeply fear could af●…ct man's nature? What ignorant and uncoherent Collections are these; Christ t●…ed the sharpness of all our affections, as namely of fear, sorrow, and shame; ergo he had all the same causes and objects of fear, sorrow, and shame, that we do and may ●…eele? Who reasoneth so that hath any reason left in his head or hart?  
This 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 KATA PANTA, in all things, do fully import. The words kata panta, in all things, or altogether, may have out of the very Text of the Apostle to the 〈◊〉 four several references, and none of them near the false construction that you make of them. The first is, he must be like his brethren, in all the parts of Man's nature; for ●…e 〈◊〉 not the (nature of) Angels, but the Seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things, (that is in all the parts and necessary consequents of Man's nature) he mu●… be like 〈◊〉 brethren. 2. He must be like not this or that Brother, and so not like any particular Persons in any special cause or Circumstance, but wherein they all a●…e brethren each to other, 
y Hebr. 2.  in all those things he must be like them all. 3. It is but a likeness, that the Apostle urgeth in all these things, there is no equality, much less an Identity required in those words, not that Christ in patient su●…ering of afflictions did not pa●… all, but these words import a Similitude, and have no farther force. 4. These and all other things, that were in Christ, must be in him without sin; 
z H●…r. 4.  he was tempted in all things after a likeness, (but) without sin. So that in all his Infirmities, affections, Temptations, and afflictions he was still free from sin, which may be the Apostles m●…aning in the la●…r place, to note, that how diu●…rs soever Christ's Temptations were, yet he was temp●…d in all things without sin. Then all such fears and sorrows, as h●…ue in them any doubt or distrust of God's favour, and Christ's Salvation, are utterly excluded from him by the Apostles own limitations, and therefore you lose but your labour by pretence of these words to bring Christ within the compass of your 〈◊〉 fears and sorrows.  

a Defence pag. 86. 〈◊〉. 2●….  Hereto ●…erueth our public Doctrine, Diram execrationem in se suscepit.] You handle the 〈◊〉, as you do the Scriptures and Fathers, turning them from their right 
What Christ 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉.  sense to serve your private Doctrines. Christ undertook our curse, saith the Ca●…isme; what then? Christ undertook all our sins; and all the punishment due unto them, not to 〈◊〉 it in the same kind, but to dissolve it in his Person, and to discharge us of it. Yea he undertook our rejection, confusion, and damnation; to satisfy them, not to bear them; to cl●… them, not to bear them. So that hence you may conclude a Satisfaction and dissolution made by Christ of all these things, that were due to us; but you may not infer, that he was utterly rejected, inwardly confounded, or eternally condemned; as we should have been, and the damned are. Again, he took upon him the Satisfaction and recompense of all our sins and pains. But where? Saint Peter●…aith, Christ bore our sins in his Body on the Tree; and Saint Paul saith, 
b 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 2.  Christ 〈◊〉 things in 〈◊〉, and things in heaven, by the blood of his Cr●…, and recon●… 
c 〈◊〉 2.  us in the Body of his flesh. Christ undertook then to abolish our curse and cond●…tion, but in the Body of his flesh, where he reconciled us unto God. So that you must bring 〈◊〉 words out of the Catechism, before your Doctrine will 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 drawn. And by your leave, I take the Catechism permitted to be taught in Schools, but not Authorized for the public Doctrine of this Realm. Neither are you the Man, that so much respect authority far more public than this, where it sorteth not with your fancies. But here you have caught a word or two, that may be misused, and that is the cause the Catechism is so much magnified by your private Authority, as to be the public Doctrine of this Realm. Which I speak not to disgrace the Book, but to make difference betwixt your verdict, and the judgement of the whole Realm.  

d Defenc. pag. 87. li. 7.  You might have given a good sense of my words (if you had any mind 〈◊〉) as of those general and large words of the Scripture, whereupon I grounded myself.] It is more than time, we should yield such a guest as you are, the same submission and reverence, that we give to the Sacred Scriptures; specially when you abuse the words of the holy Ghost to your private & unsound conceits. In the word of God I am bound to look to the meaning of the Writer, who could not err; and therefore howsoever the words, if they were another man's, might be rejected, yet in the Scriptures they are to be received with all Religion, because he indited them, that is ●…e Spirit of truth; and he hath a found and evident Doctrine in them, though we understand it not. And therefore we must seek to other places of like sense, or more light, that we may learn the meaning of the holy Ghost. Expect you the like d●…tie, when you de●…iue your sullen and unsavoury fancies by false and loose consequents from the words of holy write? as if you were not bound to beware how you abuse the Scriptures, but we must look on, and hold our pieces, whiles you pervert the words of the Prophets and Apostles at your pleasure?  
You made a number of false Propositions and Conclusions without all wa●…ant of the word of God; as, 
e Trea pa. 46. li. 10.  Thus do the members of Christ suffer: therefore of n●… 〈◊〉 Christ our head suffered the like: yea far greater terrors of God, and assaults of the devil. And so you Reason, 
f Ibid 〈◊〉 32. & pag. 47. li. 1.  which can not be refuted by the wit of Man; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 us not but wherein he had experience of our Temptations, but he succoureth 〈◊〉 in these 〈◊〉 Temptations of feeling the sorrows of hell; Therefore he himself ha●… experience of the s●…me.] Where to show your wit, you join an affirmative conclusion ●…o a negative mayor, and in defiance of all truth and reason, you make this childish and ignorant manner of reasoning to be irrefutable; And so your pleasant Electua●…, that 
g Trea pag. 45 li. 33.  of all absurditi●…s this is the greatest, that mere men should suffer more deeply and more bitterly (the sorrows and pains of hell) than Christ did. All these you build upon this foundation, Christ was 
h Heb. 4.  Tempted in all things after aliken●…sse, (but) without sin: no●… that ●…he ●…is any such intention or direction in the Apostles words, but that you will mak●… such a Construction of them, and no man must say nay. To let you see your folly and 〈◊〉 in this point, I 
i Co●…lus. pa. 283.  showed you many corporal pains and sorrows, and likewise many spiritual, which Christ never felt, as touching the causes and objects of those afflictions, though I did not exempt him from the general sense of those affections. In the Body of Man, I named blindness, dumbness, lameness, sickness, breaking of bones, burning of fire, and such like which Christ never suffered; and y●…t in all these he can and doth succour others. In the Soul I reckoned blindness, and hardness of hart, unbelief, desperation, frenzy, and vexation with devils, all which Christ hath often cured and healed, and readily can, though he were never plunged into these, as men are. Wherefore your main and immovable Collection out of the Apostle, as you dream, that Christ succoureth us not, but wherein he had experience of the same, was a blind and false in●…sion of yours utterly mistaking the Apostles words and meaning. To this what reply you?  

k Defenc. pag. 87. li. 18.  The Apostle and 〈◊〉 both do speak of the sufferings of mankind in general, and of each part of nature apt to suffer, but not of every particular in each of them, or which each meeteth withal.] You are where you would be, when you and the Apostle go hand in hand, as you make yourself believe, though you come nothing near the Apostles speech o●… sense. Then since it sufficeth for the truth of the Apostles words, that Christ felt fear, sorrow, shame, pain, and death which are common to all men; and there was no need, that Christ should have all the same causes of fear, sorrow sh●…me, and pain, which every man hath, or may have; what reason had you out of the Apostle to conclude so confidently, that Christ must suffer the very same sorrows and pains of hell, which sometimes in this life befall some men through vehement remorse of sin, and faintness of faith? For they are not general to all Ages and Persons; and if they were, yet proceed they from the guiltiness of our own consciences, and the not feeling of God's grace for the time, that we may see our own unworthiness; neither of which could have place in Christ. [General terms, you say, should be understood according to the possibility and probability of the matter.] Be those the rains of your Reasons, that you will utter matters neither probable, nor possible, and then require to have your speech recalled to possibility and probability? Do other men use so to speak or write, that when they have over lashed themselves, they fly to probabilities and possibilities, such as they best like? You must look, good Sir, to your Propositions and Conclusions, that they be sound and good, concording with the grounds of Faith, and Rules of holy Scripture, and then you shall not need to make such idle reservations. Now in your Conceits, which I repeated and refuted, what probability, or possibility do you dream of? that Christ was touched and plunged deeper than any other man into fears, Passions, and Agonies of rejection, confusion, desperation, and damnation, though at last with much a do he wrestled from them all? Such Probabilities keep to yourself, no wise Christian will admit them, except he see them proved with stronger Reasons, and clearer Testimonies, than such loose possibilities and probabilities, as you bring.  
Your waterish stuff in the rest of this page is not worth the speaking to. You wander about to salve the smallest, and clean skip over the greatest points, that are objected against you. That 
l Defenc. pag. 87.  Christ had not his eyes put out as Samson had, nor was swallowed up by a Whale, as jonas was; nor was cast into a burning furnace as Sydrac and his fellows were, nor was stoned to death as Naboth and Steven were: These I say were just and full reproofs of your licentious inference, that Christ of necessity must suffer whatsoever his members suffered. I opposed other instances besides these, touching the soul of man, from which Christ hath holpen many, though he never had experience of th●… same; as from caecitie and obstinacy of heart, from infideli●…ie, and all manner of Iniquity, from frenzy, fury, folly, and such like vexations and afflictions of devils. Wherein if you give Christ no power nor ability to hear and help at his good pleasure, you take both his honour and office from him. If you confess, which the Scriptures avouch, that he hath healed many, which were possessed and oppressed by the devil, than you must either recall your invincible Reason, as a palpable folly, or else you must subject the Body and Soul os Christ not only to devils, which you dare do; but to all manner of Imp●…etie and iniquity, since there is no sin so great, which Christ will not forgive upon true repentance, save wilful Blasphemy against his Spirit. [You speak of Pains, not of sins.] And is it no pain to be possessed with the devil in body or mind, as we read of many in the Gospel? diseases, burning, 〈◊〉, and such like, which Christ never suffered, are they no pains? frenzy, fury, lunacy, are they not rather painful and grievous punishments of sin, than sin? your Proposition which could not be refuted by the wit of Man, was this; Christ succoureth us not, but wherein he had experience of our Temptations and Infirmities, This speaketh of Temptations and Infirmities; now how far these words do st●…etch, can you not tell? but you will amend the matter, and clear both the Apostle, and your own Conclusion.  

m Defenc. pag 87 〈◊〉 37 & pag ●…8. 1. 1.  Thus this Scripture, is cleared, and my Reason justified: Christ succoureth us not in any extremer kind of pain, than he himself had experience of. But he succoureth us in the feeling of the terrors of God, he releaseth us of the pains & sorrows vn●…easurable that rise thereof. Therefore himself had experience of them.] You should do well to tell us, how this Scripture is cleared? the place proveth, that Christ had a Similitude with hi●… brethren in general, that is, as well in flesh and blood subject to death, as other suf●… and temptations. These three the Apostle reckoneth and calleth katapanta, all the parts of Resemblance, which Christ had with the weakness and wretchedness of our condition and Nature. Yourself confess those three; to wit, 
n Defenc. pag. 8●…. li. 6.  Infirmities, Temptations, and afflictions, to be all the things wherein Christ was like us; for his manhood in substance was the same that ours is, and so more than like. As for en 〈◊〉, by which you would have to be signified 
o Ibid. li. 28.  All the matter, and every kind of pain, Wherein Christ succoureth us; besides the manifest falseness of that construction, which I have sufficiently reproved, you depart, as your manner is from all Interpreters new and old to a singular sense, that no man liketh but yourself. The G●…ke Scho●…s collected by Occumenius, thus expound it. 
p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 2. cap. ad Heb.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. in that he suffered, signifieth, For as much as he 〈◊〉. And Theodorct. The Apostle saith, 
q Theodoret. ●…n 2. ca ad Heb.  Whereas by experience Christ learned the weakness of Man's Nature, he h●…lpeth those that are impugned. And Theophylact. 
r Theophylact. in 2. cap. ad Hebre●…s.  That which the Apostle saith is this. Because as a Man Christ understandeth all by experience, and knoweth what affliction and 〈◊〉 is, therefore he can help, that is, he is the readier to streteh forth his hand, and with mercy to aid the oppressed. From these perhaps you will derogate the knowledge of the Greek tongue, though they were all natural Grecians, as you do from Saint Austen; but that will do you little good, and less honesty. For the skilfullest interpreters, that are of our Age and Religion, and w●…l learned in the Greek tongue, do exactly agr●… with them against you, 〈◊〉 in his observations upon the new Testa●…ent sai●…h. 
s 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. in 2. ca ad Hebre●…s.  〈◊〉, id est 〈◊〉 THEREFORE 〈◊〉 Christ suffered, and was tempted, he is able to 〈◊〉 them, that are tempted. 
t In 2. ca●…. ad Hebrees.  calvin, 
t In 2. ca●…. ad Hebrees.  Beza, 
t In 2. ca add Hebrees.  Piscator, 
t In 2. ca add Hebrees.  Marlorate, 
t In 2. ca add Hebrees.  〈◊〉 in his Translation, and others with one consent express en ho not by WHEREIN, as you do; but by ex eo quod, 〈◊〉 hoc quod, ex quô, by that which Christ suffered, (or becaus●… he suf●…ered) and was tempted, he is able, (or ready) to succour the tempted. The 〈◊〉 Translation expoundeth it by for as much as. And though you would 〈◊〉 the mat●… and the 〈◊〉 together, lest you should be taken tardy with a violent wresting of the Scriptures, yet the simpl●… can see great di●…nce between these two Interpretations: WHEREIN Christ suffered and was tempted, (therein and in nothing e●…se) he is able to succour us; which is your erroneous exposition of the Apostles 〈◊〉: and by this that Christ suffered, (or because he suffered.) and was tempted he is able (that is ready) to help them that are tempted; which is the General Resolution of all these late Expositors. And so your cl●…g of the Scriptures is the crossing and misconsturing of them, against the full accord of new and old Interpreters.  
As for your reason; that is justified with a ●…itnesse, as error is 〈◊〉 by wilful ignorance. 
The Defenders 〈◊〉 in framing Arguments.  For if a man would rake up all the reasons, that ever thwarted A●… or truth, he shall hardly find any more or worse ●…aults in any 〈◊〉 than this hath. To a Neg●… ma●…or being a plain comparison, you put an Negative conclusion, that is a simple position; all three propositions have one and the same subject; and the predicate in the Conclusion is no where found in the premis●…es. But your Art is like your truth, and therefore I marvel at neither. The form of your reason being so out of frame, let us see how the matter of it can be justified. The mayor of your first argument, which (●…ou 〈◊〉) 
u Trea pa. 46 li. 31.  could never be refu●…ed by the wit of man, was this. Christ succoureth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, but wherein he had experience of our temptations and infirmities: that is, Christ helpeth no man in any thing, which he him●… before hath not felt. This false and l●…d assertion you are gone from; and now you substitute an other of the same here by way of comparison. Christ 
x Defenc. pag. 87. 〈◊〉 38.  succ●…ureth us not in any extremer kind of 〈◊〉, than he 〈◊〉 had experience of. Before it was the self same pain, but now it must be as extreme a pain, though not the same. Neither of these hath any foundation in the sacred Scriptures, nor any coherence with the question, which I proposed. Besides, this later, which is new coined, is a bold intrusion upon things unknown, a false comparison of Christ's succouring and suffering, and no way helpeth the Conclusion, that is sowed to it. For first how prove you that former, o●… this later proposition? 〈◊〉 (you will say) must be like 〈◊〉 in all things Omit, that th●…se words are  
 
but that any such came simply from me, truly I do not remember; they made nothing to my matter, who proposed the death of Christ by the shedding of his blo●…d to be the full redemption of mankind, without the death of the soul, and pains of the damned. And by that time we both are considered, you are as likely a man to fitten, or misconceive, as I to forget, and mistake mine own doctrine.  
Next we see, that your pla●…e out of Ambrose is alo fully to the same effect.] Both cyril 
〈…〉. 24.  and Ambrose speak to one effect, but neither of them one word to your purpos●…. Christ taking our nature, took also our natural affections of fear and sorrow. So said Cyrill, so saith Ambrose. What then? ergo Christ doubted, and feared rejection and damnation. Be those natural, or sinful fears in us? If sinful, Christ had nothing to do with them. He was like us in all things, sin excepted. Natural they are not, because they are neither necessary nor common to all, though they be consequents of our sin●…ull corruption, when faith faileth us. There is a fear, as Damascene teacheth, which is natural and innocent, and not subject to sin. This the Lord admitt●…d 
.  or suffered, when he would; not as we do, by constraint. There is another fear, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that proceedeth from infidelity, and the betraying (or selfe-yeelding) of our thoughts. This the Lord admitted not. You confound both these and by one which ●…s a natural infirmity, would prove the other, which is a sinful infidelity to be in Christ's person. But awake out of this drowsy dream, and you shall see them not only distinct, but as far distant the one from the other, as iniquity is from the integrity of man's nature.  
That Christ laid aside for the time the delight of his eternal Deity, and would be a●…ed with the tediousness of our infirmity, Ambrose saith; but that it parted away from him, is your false translation, not Ambros●…s intention. That Christ did not dissemble our natural affections of grief and sorrow, but would feel them for our sake; and in respect of our danger, Ambrose confesseth: but that Christ exempted himself from nothing 
Defen●…●…ag. ●…8. li. 33.  in his passion that we have experience of, as touching pains and sorrows; this is your medley, it is no part of Ambroses meaning. The causes of Christ's sorrow are in that place repeated by Ambrose; you have the cunning to skip them, and to surmise others in their steads, of which Ambrose never dreamt, as the fear and terror of reie●…tion, maled●…ction, and damnation, which Ambrose abhorreth. 
k .  Pro me doluit, 〈…〉 quod doleret. Christ sorrowed for me, who had nothing which he might sor●…w for himself 
l  . Doles igitur Domine non tua. sed mea vulnera, non tuam mortem, sed nostram infirmitatem. Thou grievest therefore Lord, saith Ambrose, not at thy wounds, but at mine, not at thine own death, but at our weakness. The occasions and respects of 〈◊〉 grief and sorrow are there set down by Ambrose, which you make light of; and therefore you abuse the words of Ambrose, not so much against me, as against himself. But these places and particulars I have handled before, that may suffice till we come to Christ's agony.  

m Defen●…. pag. 〈◊〉 li 1.  To this v●…ry purpose also, many others before rehearsed do affirm most fully.] He that knew not your vain and vaunting humour, would think that so many names of ancient Fathers, as N●…ianzene, Fulgentius, Bernard, Tertullian and Jerome, should not be impanelled but to some purpose; but the Reader hath by this time so good experience of your mistake and wrest, that he will easily suppose you would make your most advantage as well of their words, as of their names, if you had any sure hold in them. Howbeit, these places are already discussed, and therefore as you refer me to the Pages, where you cited them, so I send you to the places, where I examined and answered them. Where the Reader shall soon see how you can play with places that make nothing for you, by dreaming, that ancient Father's thought as you do, because they speak of human infirmity and sorrow in Christ's soul.  

n D●…fen●…. pa. 89. l. 4.  You greatly abu●…e them who take t●…em otherwise: namely, as if they meant that by the flesh and blou●…shed of Christ merely and alone without the merit of his souls and minds proper suffering, our whole ransom were paid. The chief merit of Christ's obedience and patience, I refer to the soul of Christ, since the body of itself hath neither will nor sense, much less virtue or merit; and the sufferings of Christ's soul by affections of fear and sorrow I have often affirmed, I never d●…ed. The death of Christ's soul I utterly disclaim to have been any part of our redemption, and so do the ancient Fathers before me with one consent. That you keep close, as it were confession, and bear men in hand, that I uphold the mere sufferings of Christ's flesh alone without any communion of his soul or mind. What tricks you contain in those terms of the souls proper suffering, I little regard; when you prove that which you pretend, by more than saying, I will take the pains to refute it with more than denying. 
o Defenc. pag. 89 li. 7.  As for our comparing the pains of Christ's suffering, with the pains even of the reprobate in this life, I s●…e not that you or any man living can find fault therewith: only set aside their sinful suffering, which always I testify that Christ was most free from. It is well, that not the Scriptures, but you, compare the pains of Christ's sufferings with the reprobate; whereby the Reader may perceive, that the first foundation of your new faith is your own fancy; and the best bulwark you have for it, is the presumption of your own brain, whereto you lean, without, if not against the Scriptures. Then Christ yet at last shall be always and altogether free from all sinful suffering; and then how might his soul or mind apprehend any doubt or fear of God's favour towards him, or any the least distrust or staggering of his salvation or our redemption? his faith and hope standing sure and unshaken, as also the full persuasion of God's love towards his person, and acceptation of his obedience, 〈◊〉 and wholly possessing his heart, what fear or sorrow common to him with the reprobate can you imagine in the soul or spirit of Christ? Tell us what Christ apprehended or conceived, that should torment his mind with equal anguish, as it doth the reprobate. Your general phrases of Gods proper wrath, and of the extremest spiritual punishments, are but hives to hide your poisoned honey in; express particularly your conceits, that we may know whether they savour of truth and faith, or of error and infidelity. 
p Defenc. pag. 89. li 11.  Yea, I doubt not but we may compare Christ's sufferings in his agonies, even with those of the 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉. Neither do I doubt of your boldness in this and all other ca●…s, but if you will speak of the Christian faith, you must show us what Scripture teacheth you to compare Christ's sufferings in the Soul, with the reprobate or with the damned. They be great adventures to undertake of your own head to torment the soul of Christ with devils in like manner as the damned are; or to give him the same 〈◊〉 of God's wrath upon himself that the reprobate and damned have. For either of which, if you can show any Prophet, Evangelist, or Apostle, that said so before you, we will hold you excused; 
q Tertull adversus Hermogenem.  If it be not written, fear the curse appointed for those that augment or diminish the word of God. For my part, I have learned to say with S. Austen: 
r Aug. contra literas Petilia. li. 3. ca 9  In any thing touching our faith, if an Angel ●…om 〈◊〉 teach otherwise then we have received in the Scriptures of the Law and the Gospel, let him be accursed. For 
Hilarius d●… Patris & filii essentia.  of God's matters there is no speech (or doctrine) left us besides the word of God. So that if the Scriptures make these comparisons and resemblances, we easily admit them; if you take upon you to devise them, as new points of faith, we as heartily detest them. And if I be not deceived, you will hardly make either of these comparisons good by the sacred Scriptures. For you were even now very busy with certain places of the Apostle, which to my judgement prove the plain contrary. Christ 
t Hebr. 2.  must 〈◊〉 like his brethren in all things; and consequently in all his sufferings. But neither the 〈◊〉 nor the damned are Christ's brethren. His sufferings therefore were not like theirs. And how could Christ's sufferings be glorious, if they were like the reprobate or the damned? Have the reprobate or the damned any glory in their 〈◊〉, as Christ had in his? Father, said he, the hour is come, glorify thy Son; speaking of the hour of his pas●…on. By his sufferings then Christ was glorified, and declared to be the Son of God; which if you attribute to the reprobate and the damned, you must new alter the whole course of God, counsels and judgements. 
Desenc. pag. 89. li. 16.  Touching the vehemency of the pain, Christ suffered 〈◊〉 as ●…terly and as sharply, (yea I may say in nature the very same) as the damned do.] It must be the self same in every point, afore it can be as sharp and as bitter as theirs. Had the damned but one kind of pain, the comparison were the sooner examined; but they have exceeding many both outward and inward, and all these must be common to Christ with the damned, before Christ's pains in sharpness and vehemency can be equal with theirs. The grief of rejection, confusion and desperation, they inwardly feel, the worm of conscience, the horror of darkness, the pain of fire breedeth them intolerable torments. Yea, what one thing doth the Scripture specify of the pains of hell, which with any religion you may attribute to Christ? Your general refuge of God's wrath will do you no good; not only the Scriptures, but yourself now at last acknowledge the faithful feel a taste of God's infinite wrath, who yet I trust feel not the sharpen●…sse nor bitterness of eternal damnation. If then God's wrath in some sort be common to all the suff●…rings of men, just and unjust, in this life and the next, what sequence hath your supposal, that because Christ felt God's wrath in some measure, he therefore felt the very sharpn●…sse of hell pains? 
x Defenc. pag. ●…9. li 20.  If you say the extremest pains of punishment can not be where sin is not, that is true: neither indeed can the least pains be where there is no sin.] You be likely to understand weighty matters, that so much mistake ordinary points of speech. That Christ's su●…ings must be void of all sin, inferreth not only the integrity of his nature, and purity o●… his actions, but the sincerity of his affections; which could not be distempered in ●…im by any excess of fear or sorrow, but as in mind he did apprehend the truth and not err, by doubting of God's favour towards him; so in fear and sorrow admitted by him, there could be no want of grace, no fainting of Faith, no decrease of hope, but he must conceive and discern both God's counsels and deeds rightly, without mista●…ing either the purpose of the punisher, or the measure of the pain in the purgation of our sins. For he can not lie, who gave this Testimony, that 
y john. 18.  Iesi●… kn●… 〈◊〉 that ●…la come unto him, and that 
z john 13.  hands●…efore ●…efore his ●…assion, which proveth as well his voluntary submission, as his full power to moderat●… all his own sufferings, which he could stay, but would taste for the preserving of his Fathers justice.  

a Defenc. pag. 89. 〈◊〉. 3●….  You grant his body suf●…ered truly punishments for sin. Therefore his Soul might suffer al●…o even those of the extream●…st degree.] If you meant to deal plainly, you would distinguish the nature of the punishment, the measure of the pain, and the purpose of 
The n●…e, meas●…re, and pur●…ose of Ch●…ists suffering●….  the Inflictour; in all which Christ differed much from the damned. For, first you no way prove, that any kind of pain mentioned in the Scriptures to be laid on the damned, was found in Christ's Soul or Body. Secondly, the pains of the damned pass the Patience of all Men and Angels, and much more the weakness and frailty of mortal flesh. Lastly, the purpose of God in laying the burden of oursinn es upon his own Son, was not to dishonour him, or to forsake him, or to execute vengeance on him prepared for the wicked, but to take recompense from him for all our sins in such sort, as better pleased the holiness and justice of God, then if eternal damnation had been inflicted on us. So that I see no one point, wherein the damned agree with Christ by the verdict of the holy Scriptures: only he felt sharp and bitt●…r pain●…s for the Trial of his obedience and patience; and so do all the Sons of God before, or when they depart this life, though I willingly grant, that the sense of Christ's pains in many respects were far greevouser, than any the Godly can feel with submission and devotion to God.  

b Defenc. pag. 89. li 37.  Yourself also granteth, that Christ both might and did suffer the extremest pains that mig●…t be without his own sin.] Then the more to blame you, that content not yourself therewith, but run to the Reprobate and to the damned to draw Christ's Soul within the compass of their confusion and destruction. I never sought to diminish or el●…uate Christ's sufferings, so far as the Scriptures gave any witness thereo●…: but to avouch, as you do, that he suffered the true pains of the damned, as I then saw no Scripture to warrant it, so I yet hear no reason to uphold it, besides your presumptuous will. Howbeit I restrained the sufferings of Christ to the state of this life, where he suffered; and excepted not only all stain●…s of sin, and wants of grace, but added holiness and righteousness to all his sufferings which must be voluntary, religious, and meritorious, that they might be the more precious in God's sight; and this can agree to no sufferings of the Reprobate, or of the damned. You would feign torment and afflict the Soul of Christ with God's immediare hand, but your proof thereof is so weak and idle, and your inconstancy therein so plain and sensible, that you do but play with both hands to see, which will soon deceive the Reader. For sometimes it shall be Gods own and immediate hand, and his most proper Act; sometimes it shall be the displeasure of God against our sins conceived and discerned by the Spirit of Christ that bred such torment and affliction of Soul; and which of these two you will rather incline to, you cannot yet resolve.  

c Defenc. pag. 90. li. 1.  It was possible for Christ to conceive and feel in his mind far greater sorrows and pains for our s●…nne from God's wrath, than he could ●…eele merely in his Body outwardly.] It ever hath been the last refuge of all heresy to fly from the truth testified in the Scriptures to the power of God, or possibility. Tertullian being so answered by Praxeas replieth in this sort. 
d Tertullianu●… adversus Praxeam.  Plainly nothing is hard to God; but if we use this sentence so abruptly in our own presumptions, we may fame any thing of God, as if he had done it, because he could do it. But though God can do all things, yet we must not believe that, which he never did, but we must examine, whether he hath done it. That God tormenteth Souls in hell with his immediate hand, is a point stiffly presumed by you, but as strange to the Scriptures, as the rest of your new found devices: and why you should doubt of the literal sense of Christ's words, Depart you cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his Angels, there is no cause, but that you do not think, God is able to subject sinful spirits to external means of punishment. And therefore you bring in God's immediate hand as only meet to overmaster Souls and devils, and give him no power to punish them by any Creature ordained for that purpose. Now whether it be Faith, or Infidelity to ●…lude all those places as ●…iguratiue speeches, where everlasting fire is threatened and mentioned in the Scriptures, I have formerly said, what I thought sufficient, thither I remit such as be desirous to read. Likewise that God with his immediate hand tormented the Soul of Christ at the Time of his Passion with the same degree and kind of pain, which the damned feel; this is an other of your Positions, for which you have as much Scripture, as you have for the creating of another world.  
What Christ disc●…rned of God's wrath to be laid on his person, I would gladly here you express, otherwise then in general and doubtful speeches, which under a show of some truth cover a number of your ●…rroneous conceits. For first it is certain, that Christ conceived truly as well of God's Anger against our sins, as of God's favour towards his own Person, which infinitely exc●…eded the displeasure, that God's holiness had against us, that were sinful Creatures. Himself saith: 
e john. 8.  I know (my Father) and if I should say I know him not, I should be a liar like unto you; but I know him. The same Euangelis●… saith of Christ's sufferings: I●…sus 
f john. 18.  knowing all things, that should come up in him. And this knowledge, if it swerved from the truth, was not an ignorance, but an error in Christ believing a lie instead of Truth; which God forbid we should suppose of him, that not only said, 
g john 8.  I tell you the Truth, but 
h john. 14.  I am the Truth. Christ th●…n most certainly knew, that God was highly offended with our sins, but better pleased with his Person; and that God's love towards him would accept his voluntari●… submission and Sacrifice, as a sufficient recompense, and Satisfaction for the sins of the world. Again, he certainly knew, that God's displeasure against our sin, in love would not, in justice could not extend to the dissolution, r●…iection, or d●…struction of his Person, but that God would temper the punishment of our sins in his Body, where he bore them; that neither his obedience, nor patience should be wear●…ed, or overwhelmed. And to that end the Scripture plainly testifieth, that jesus 
i john. 13.  knew, the Father had given all things into his hands; and so whatsoever Christ suffered was a trial of his obedience, to which he most willingly submitted himself, that neither the burden of our sinn●…s might seem a sport to him, nor his case common to him with the desperate and damned persons. Christ then neither did nor could apprehend or discern any wrath of God kindled against his person, as the reprobate fear, and the damned find; neither any purpose in God to punish sin farther than by the death of his body to purge it and abolish it; nor the measure of pain determined to be sharper than his human patience could without repining or refusing endure. Wherefore though I willingly grant as much pain in Christ's sufferings, as his patience could sustain without declining or disobeying, yet see I no point, wherein the sufferings of Christ, either apprehended or inflicted, did concord with the pains of the damned. As for the terror of God's anger against sin (which wrought in Christ submission, not confusion) and sorrow for sin conceived, for that God was thereby justly displeased; these and all such religious FEARS, sorrows, & tremble, I easily yield to the soul of Christ, which were sacrifices in God's sight of inestimable price, and very painful, though very faithful submissions and passions of the inward man. The farther proof of these, I refer to the place where I shall speak of Christ's agony; and in the mean time assure the Ch●…istian Reader, that neither this Pra●…er nor all his compartners shall ever be able by the sacred Scriptures to make any proof of any farther or other sufferings than I have specified.  
Whether the pains of body or soul in Christ were greater or sharper, I take it to be a needl●…sse and fruitless question. The pains of Christ's body were proportioned 
The pains a●… well of Christ's s●…ule as of his body were equal to the strength of Chr●…stes patience.  to the strength of his patience, and so were his fears and sorrows; and in either, the soul was the part that felt the smart, and discerned the cause. And if we balance these things by the consequents of nature, since the pains from the body do in this life by their vehemency separate soul and body far sooner and oftener than sorrows and fears of mind, (except in present and overwhelming evils, which cool, quench, and overthrow the spirits with more speed, though with less pains) than the sharpness of Christ's bodily pains, having no release nor ease, but perfect sense and continuance, did pinch as near, not as the pains of the damned, but as the passions or affections of Christ's soul having faith and hope to support them, and comfort and joy proposed to mitigate them. And even in the damned, both men and diu●…ls, whence you would seem to fetch your precedent for Christ's sufferings; whether think you are the sharper, the pains which they now feel, before the day of judgement, or the violence of fire, which shall then exceed all the pains they now suffer? For both the devils and the damned have as much grief of rejection, confusion, and desperation; and as mighty terrors and inward torments of mind, as they are capable of; and yet neither of them have their sharpest punishments. Of the devils the Scriptures say; 
k Jude epist. vers. 6.  They are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day. And the spirits themselves could say to Christ; 
l Ma●…th. 8.  Art thou come to torment us before the time? Of the wicked Peter saith; 
m 2. Pet 2.  God knoweth (how) to reserve the vn●…ust unto the day of judgement to be punished. And 
n Rom. 2.  thou (saith Paul to every one of them) according to thine hardness, and impenitent heart heapest up wrath to thyself against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgement of God. By which it is plain, that the terrors and torments of mind presently felt by the devil and the damned, are far less than the vengeance of external and eternal fire reserved, and then augmented on all the reprobate, both men and angels.  

o Defenc. pag. ●…0. li. 4.  The greatest (pains) are no more sin, than the least. Therefore by your own grant Christ might and did feel and endure the gr●…atest sorrows of the mind and soul, as well as the l●…sser in the body.] Pains, if they be only pains and nothing else, are not sin, and therefore the suffering of hell fire is no sin; but the terriblest punishment of sin that men or angels shall feel: yet terrors and torments of mind are increased by doubt, fear, or despair of God's goodness towards us, which are sins in this life, where grace and mercy are proposed, and could not be in Christ without intolerable infidelity, after so plain and plentiful assurances of God's love and favour towards him. Take therefore from Christ all doubt and distrust of God's anger and displeasure towards his person, and then it is evident, that neither his apprehension of God's wrath was the same that the damned and desperate feel, no●… any way so sharp, as if Christ had conceived God to be displeased with him, or purposed to destroy him, as the wicked are persuaded of God's indignation against themselves. Christ's sufferings than were wrath to the sense and feeling of man's nature, but his 
Christ's Faith did not fail in the sharpest of his paine●….  faith in the sharpest of his pains beheld the settled and assured love of God towards his person, and he not only called God his Father in all his afflictions, but out of his own power he gave the thief that confessed him on the cross, the inheritance of God's kingdom that present day together with himself. So that he was more than persuaded, or resolved of God's favour and faithfulness, who took upon him in the midst of his sufferings to give the kingdom of heaven to such as acknowledged and believed in him; though the chastisement of our sins in his body and soul were by God's justice and his own consent very sharp and bitter unto him, that his love to us and obedience to his Father might appear the more fully, not in peace, ease, and dalliance, but in sorrow, pain and grievance: by which ardent and constant love is tried, as gold in the fire. Whereby it appeareth, that all your talk of God's wrath against Christ, equal with the damned or reprobate, hath no truth nor sense in it, but is a mere and flat falsity and impiety: only the general words, that Christ suffered God's wrath and displeasure against our sins, may be tolerated, because the Scriptures use to call the bitterness of affliction in whom soever the wrath of God, by reason it riseth not simply out of God's favour and bounty, but is permixed with his justice, that the transitory and tolerable smart of our sins may even in this life, when we feel it and faint under it, commend unto us the wonderful grace of God, that hath for Christ's sake released us of those everlasting and unspeakable Torments, which our sins justly deserved, the Reprobate fully fear, and the damned by experience most dreadfully do feel.  

p Defenc. pag. 90. li. 8.  You bring a Reason against this, that God spiritually punisheth no man but for his own uncleanness which is a thing merely untrue.] Out of two Pages in my Sermons against the death of Christ's Soul you piked two words, where I call the death of the Soul spiritual punishment, and because, to avoid tediousness, I repeat not in every line the same words; you neglect, that purposely in that Section I entreat of the death of the Soul; that eighteen times in those two Pages I name the life and death of the Soul, that over right those very words, which you bring, I set this Note in the Margin, the Death of Christ's Soul could neither proceed from God, nor be acceptable unto God, as the sum of that which I intended to prove in that place: that my Conclusion immediately urged upon these words is this, 
q Serm. pag. 103. li. 1.  Christ then might not suffer the inward or everlasting death of the Soul: All this I say you neglect, and over-skip many sound and sure reasons in those two sides against the death of Christ's Soul, and carp at two poor words, where I use spiritual punishment for the death of the Soul. But take the words in their right sense for the death of the Soul, whereof I reason in that place, and then see what you, and all your Adherents can say against them. Eternal or spiritual death, which severeth the Soul from all grace and glory, God layeth on none for an others fault; because God never rejecteth or condemneth any Man but upon his own desert. Punish one for another by affliction of Body or Mind he may, because he can restore and recompense, when he seeth his Time; though no Man (Christ jesus excepted) can want sin, whiles here he liveth, which God may justly punish when, and in what respect he will.  

r Defenc. pag. 90. li. 13.  But I pray you show me this mystery how it is, that God cannot punish spiritually where there is no sin inherent, but can and may corporally where there is none.] Though there lie no Children of Adam, in whom there was not sin either naturally cleaving to t●…em, or voluntarily committed by them, yet Infants after Baptism, by which Original sin and corruption in them is pardoned, are said by better Divines, than you or I, to have no sin, and to be often punished corporally for other men's faults. Saint Austen asserteth both. 
s August. Epist. 28.  Quis nonit, quid paruulis, de quorum cruciatibus d●…ritia maiorum contunditur, aut exercetur fides, aut misericordia probatur, Quis inquam novit, quid ipsis paruulis in secreto indic●…orum suorum bonae compensationis reseruat Deus? quoniam quanquam nihil rectè fecerint, tamen nec peccantes aliquid ista perpessi sunt. Who can tell, what good Recompense God reserveth in the secrecy of his judgements for those Infants, by whose pains (or Torments) the hardness of their Parents or friends is repressed or their Faith exercised, or their pity proved? because though the Children did no good Acts, yet neither suffered they those things for any sin of theirs. Neither doth the Church in vain recommend those Infants to be honoured as Martyrs, which were slain by Herode, when he sought to kill the Lord jesus Christ. Zanchius saith the like. Of 
t Zanchius' i●… tractitionibus Theologicis de 2. praecepto. pa. 340.  the punishments pertaining to this present life, by which we are visited of the Lord, either in our outward goods or in our bodies, it is a clear case that God very often doth visit the sins of the Fathers upon the children. But in the death of the soul, which is the spiritual punishment that I meant, God himself saith; 
u Ezech. 18.  The soul that sinneth, even that shall die; the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, but the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Saint Austen maketh the difference, that I spoke of. 
x August. ●…pist. 75.  Neque enim haec corporalis est poena, qualegimus quosdam contemptores Dei cum suis omnibus qui eiusdem impietatis participes non fuerant, pariter infectos. Tunc quidem ad terrorem viventium mortalia corpora perimebantur, quando que utique moritura: spir●…tualis autem p●…na animas obligat, de quibus dictum est, anima quae peccaverit, ipsa morietur. This is no corpor all punishment, in which we read some despisers of God have been wrapped with all theirs, that were not partakers of the same iniquity: for then to the terror of the living mortal bodies were slain, which at one time or an other must have died. But a spiritual punishment bind●…th souls of whom it is said the soul that sinneth, that soul shall die. Neither shall you ever be able to show, that one soul was slain for an others fault (as men's bodies often have been) except they both did communicate in sin, which was the cause of their common destruction.  

y Defence pag. 90. li. 16.  All the rest of your assertions, Pag. 101. 102. 103. 105. 266. 94. are of this suit.] I like your wit, that you can make short work, and when you can not answer, to say the things be of like suit. But refel the reasons brought in these pages against the death of the soul, and you will find a warmer suit, than you are ware of. I need not repeat them, if it please the Reader to peruse them, let him judge in God's name, whether it were weakness in you, or in them, that made you overslip them.  

z Defene. pag. 90. li. 17.  By this one reason I weakened all yours, but you could pass●… that over a●…swearing unto it not a word.] By what authority must every trifle of yours be tediously discus●…ed, when you leap over six leaves at a jump, lest you should entangle yourself with more than you could well discharge? It was belike some worthy reason, that I durst not so much as offer a word about it; let us hear it in God's name. [
a Ibid. li. 18.  If Christ's body hanging on the cross, and held by death in the grave, was punished by God, where yet he found no sin, and which he still entirely loved, and was never separated from; then so he might and did punish properly Christ's soul also, and yet never divide his Godhead, nor his love from it. The one standeth with God's justice, and with the nature of man in Christ, as well as the other.] A wanton colt, when he winceth with his heels, thinketh he can batter walls, and beat down trees with a blow; when yet the skittish thing doth but hurt itself. Is this the reason which weakened all, that I said in so many sides against the death of the soul? for of that I speak in all those pages, which you quote. Need you a pair of spectacles so see the difference between the death of the soul, and the death of the body, that you so falsely, idly, and foolishly match them together? A very drone would soon discern, that the death of the body innocently, obediently, and patiently suffered could no way separate Christ from the favour and love of God, nor hinder the work of our redemption, though it deprived hi●… of life, sense, and motion in the body for the time, which are the good blessings of God, when they are used to his glory; and yet the death of the soul, (which leaveth neither action, affection, nor communion of grace, truth, or faith in the soul) severeth both Soul and body quite from God, and maketh them hateful unto God, and altogether unapt to reconcile others unto God, when they themselves are disjoined and parted from God. And therefore notwithstanding your Cracks, that you can blow mountains afore you with your breath; and your craft, that shift the death of the Soul, (whereof I speak in all those places) into a proper spiritual punishment of your own framing; you have not avoided any one Reason there, nor offer so much as to come toward the matter in question, but rove after your wont manner with general phrases proper to yourself, and then think that no man seeth you. [there are other punishments in the Soul besides death.] but none, that can reconcile us unto God. For 
b Rome 5.  We were reconciled to God by the death of his Son. 
c 1. Cor. 15.  I declare unto you (saith Paul) the Gospel, which I preached unto you, and whereby you are saved. For first of all I delivered unto you, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. Then you and whosoever else, that preach or believe Remission of sins by any thing else, but by the death of Christ, you preach not the Gospel, which the Apostle delivered, neither can you look for salvation in Christ, that leave the main ground thereof, which is the death, that he tasted for all, and through which he destroyed him, that had the power of death, even the devil. So that to step to any other spiritual punishments for the satisfaction of our sins and reconciliation to God, then to that which the Scriptures call the death of Christ and the death of the Cross, is to renounce all, that God hath ordained or revealed for our Salvation, and to create you new saviours after your own conceits. You must therefore be directly and plainly brought to this point, whether Christ suffered for us the death of the Soul by the Scriptures, and not such giggers of proper punishments, nor strains of improper speeches, as you and your friends hunt after; but fairly and fully according to the direction of the sacred Scriptures, which must be heard, and preferred before all your fancies, as well touching the death of the soul, as the truth of our redemption by the blood of Christ jesus. Wherein though I exclude not the sense and affections of his soul, which felt the pain, knew the cause, and beheld the counsel of God in all those sufferings undertaken for man, through the tender love that he bore to man, yet none of those fears, sorrows, nor pains, which the soul discerned and received, did any whit diminish the power of God's spirit and grace in him, nor the perfection of his faith, hope, and love, whereby the soul cleaved fast to God without any separation; and consequently the innocence, obedience, and patience of Christ's soul in his sufferings both outward and inward, did confirm and manifest the life of his soul. But of this more in due place.  

d Defenc. pa●… 90. li. 27.  Then you address yourself against another, even one of the chiefest reasons of mine, which I make from the strange and incomparable agonies of Christ in the time of his passion.] You make no reasons from Christ's agony; but assuming that for a show, which you do not understand, you infer what you list, by your rash, presumptuous and manifest contradictions both to yourself and to the Scriptures. [
e Ibid. li. 30.  These invaded him, as we read, principally at three times; First, in the foretaste of his passion, joh. 12. secondly, in the Garden a little before his apprehension. thirdly, in his very extreme passion itself on the cross.] The Scripture mentioneth one agony, and you multiply that to three. In the twelfth of john when some of the Grecians that came to worship on the feast of Easter, were desirous to see Christ (of whom they had heard much) and made their desire known to Philip, and he to Andrew, and they both to jesus, jesus answered them, 
f john 12.  The hour was come (even at hand) that the Son of man should be glorified; by his death. This therefore was not a time to show himself, when his (heart or) soul was troubled with other matters, even with the meditation and preparation of his death. Now except you be so wise, that you will make every affection in Christ an agony, there is no cause to conceive this to be an agony. He often times thought and spoke of his death before, where no man besides you doth dream of agonies; and this very word is in other cases ascribed aswell to Christ, as to others, where no colour of an agony doth appear. When he told his Disciples, that one of them should betray him, 
g john 13.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he was troubled in spirit; and meaning to raise Lazarus from death, when he saw Mary the sister of Lazarus, and the jews that were with her, to weep; 
h john 11.  he groaned in spirit, and troubled himself, insomuch that he wept, which yet was no agony, but a touch of human compassion, showing the love he bore unto them. The complaint on the cross, besides the words, had no show of an agony; and what sense they bear, we shall after examine. Verily, he that would not suffer his own Disciples to behold his agony in the Garden, would never in the eyes or ears of his enemies with his own deeds or words verify their reproaches and taunts against himself, as if he were forsaken of God, which was the thing they upbraided him with. And therefore you may devise not three, but threescore agonies, if you will: The Scripture expresseth one, and that you neither rightly conceive, nor rightly use.  

i Defenc. pag. 90. li. 35.  To all (that duly consider) it appeareth so clear as the Sun at noon day, that the pains of his passion, which plainly now he felt and feared (because he knew he was to feel them further unto death) were the proper and direct cause of those agontes. But we assume, that such strange and lamentable things and behaviour in Christ were not the effects one lie and merely of his bodily pains and death. Therefore Christ felt and endured more than his me●…re bodily pains and death, by the testimony of the Scriptures, which thing you deny.] Your clear Sun is the dark cloud of your own imaginations; your proper & direct causes are the light and false conjectures of your own brain; your conclusion is a childish digression not only from the things questioned by me, but from the very matters proposed by you: only in the upshot you hold your wont course, to strengthen your cause with a lie, when truth will not stand you in steed. To begin where you end: you are not ignorant, that I defend no such thing as mere bodily pains, yourself have directly confessed the contrary, as I have formerly showed. I say indeed, Christ suffered no death, but only the death of the body; that you turn to a manifest untruth, and say, I deny that Christ felt any more, then mere bodily pains. To what purpose then is your conclusion, that Christ endured more than bodily pains? What gain you by that, so long as Christ suffered none other death, but the death of the body? Christ's fear and sorrow, which the Scriptures express in the Garden, were more than mere bodily pains, and those though he felt, you shall never thence conclude, that he felt the pains of hell or of the damned.  

l Defenc. pag. 91.  Your assumption, as you say, I grant and acknowledge; (and so your labour is the less) but the proposition I gain say in my whole discourse, denying that the pains of Christ's passion, or the natural fear of them was the proper and direct cause of those agonies, or that the Scriptures imply so much.] If you look well to my words, they contain two things; first, that the 
n Serm pag. 17. li. 13.  right cause of Christ's agony in the Garden is not 
n 14.  determinately and 
o 15.  certainly revealed in the Scriptures; secondly, that the suffering of hell pains at that present was the least probable cause thereof, if not altogether intolerable. let us now see how you impugn either of these. 
p Defenc. pag. 91. li. 22. 14. 27.  [this your assertion I simply deny: and then my proposition standeth firm, that his pains inflicted on him by way of proper punishment and vengeance for sin were the proper and main cause thereof.] This is the clearness of your Sunshining at noon day: you deny my assertion, and then your proposition standeth firm, ergo the Scriptures do certainly specify the proper and direct causes of Christ's agony, and those were the pains of the Damned, which you call the proper vengeance for sin. Then if you list to deny any thing, the contrary is presently proved, and concluded by you as clear as the Sun at noon day. such proofs and conclusions, which are nothing but strange and violent Imaginations, your book is full of, and these twenty leaves and more, which here you spend in examining Christ's agony, have nothing else in them but such mere falsehoods and confusions. Before we speak of the firmness of your proposition, I would gladly know which of these three propositions, which here you have varied to show the settlednes of your conceits, is that, which you offer to be examined. In the first you say, 
q Defenc. pag. 90. li. 37.  the pains of Christ's passion, which plainly now he felt, and feared to feel further unto death: in the second you say 
r Pa. 91. li. 7.  those pains or the natural fear of them: in the third you say, 
s Ibid. li. 26.  his pains inflicted on him by way of proper punishment and vengeance for sin, these were the proper and direct cause of ●…hose agonies. These and those, these or those, these alone and not those, are childish and foolish contrarieti●…s with any wise man save with you; and yet all these are clear and firm, because you have the wit to deny mine assertion.  
Touching your proposition, that the Reader may conceive, how you clutter things together to hold on your accustomed carriage, he must mark, that Christ's agony had many parts and circumstances; some inward, some outward, some affections, 
The parts of Christ's agony.  some actions, some apprehensions; and all these had their causes efficient and adiwant, near or remote, sole or concurrent according to their differences. The Scriptures expressly note in that agony, which Christ had and showed in the Garden, the inward affections of sorrow, fear, admiration, submission, contention of mind in Christ. My soul (saith he) 
t Matth. 26.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is on every side sorrowful (or compassed round with sorrow) even unto death. And he began, saith Matthew, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to be full of sorrow, and much grieved. For so the Apostle useth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, what sense soever it bear with profane writers, whereof we shall not need to dispute. 
u Phil. 2. v. 26.  I thought it necessary to send unto you Epaphroditus my fellow soldier and your messenger, for he was very desirous of you all, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and very pensive (or much grieved) because you heard he was sick. S. Mark saith, Christ in the Garden began 
x Mar. 16. v. 33  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to be afraid, or astonished; and full of heaviness or grief. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth fear and admiration, which so fixeth the mind for the time, that a man neither speaketh nor useth the vigour of his senses. As for submission of mind, Christ's 
y Matth. 26.  falling flat with his face 
z Mark. 14.  on the ground, when he powered forth his prayers to God, sufficiently showeth as much inward humiliation of the soul in God's presence, as this outward gesture of his body declared or required. His ardent zeal in prayer, and vehement contention of mind S. Luke noteth, when he saith: An 
a Luc. 22.  Angel appeared to him to strengthen him (with a message from God, Christ then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, falling into an agony, prayed more earnestly (or fervently) and his sweat was like drops of blood trickling down to the ground.  
Of this agony you have often spoken, and here you spend no small time about it, but I scant believe you know what an agony meaneth, much less what was the true cause of this agony. Though an agony be sometimes abusively taken for fear, yet properly it is a●…firmed 
b Etymologicon ex Orione.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, of him that is ready to descend into any combat, or conflict with another; as Orion a most ancient Grecian observeth. Damascene confesleth, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, standing 
What an agony is.  in (doubt or) fear to miss●… of that we undertake, we are agonized. Galene the chief of Physicians, and well skilled in the perturbations and commotions of the body, that come from the blood or spirits, noteth of what affections an agony is compounded; ' F●…are, saith he, doth pr●…sently drive the blood and spirits inward towards their fountain, 
c Galenus d●…●…ausis comat●…n. li. 2.  and contracteth them together by cooling the uttermost parts of the body; and anger doth (as suddenly) heat them, diffund and send them forth: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and that which (in Greek) is called an agony, is compounded of them both, and hath inequal motions, according to the predominant affection. Aristotle a great Philosopher in the knowledge of natural things, not only showeth, that there may be an agony without fear, as when we attempt things honest and commendable, though di●…cult, 
d Arist Rhetoricorum li. 1. cap. 9  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, for which men (strive and) are agpmozed without fear; but also that sweeting in an agony cometh rather from indignation and zeal, than from fear. 
e Idem Problemat. sect. 2. quest. 26.  An agony, saith he, is not the passing of the (natural) heat from the higher parts of the body unto the lower, as in fear, but it is rather an increase of heat, as in anger and indignation. And he that is in an agony, is not troubled with fear or cold, but with expectation of the event. Wherein Theophrastus not much behind him, agreeth with him: 
f Theophrastus' de Sudoribus. 12.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. An agony is not the removing of the natural heat, but the increasing thereof, as in anger. And heat doth dry the outmost parts of the body.  
I speak not this to bind Christ's sweat in the Garden wholly to natural causes, but to show that neither Divinity, Philosophy, nor Physic do permit that fear or sorrow, which cool the blood, and quench the spirits, should be the cause of this bloody sweat, but that rather as the Evangelist expresseth, it came from strength and contention of zeal, whiles Christ most fervently prayed for that, which he was very desirous, and in present expectation to obtain. An Angel appeared from heaven 
g Luc. 22. 43.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, strengthening him (saith the Scripture) no question with a message from God. For Angels otherwise were not in this case to intermeddle. And then Christ 
h vers. 44.  entering into an Agony, (that is, into a vehement contention of mind to prevail against that, which resisted or hindered him) he prayed more fervently. From this fervency of zeal and contention of mind came that bloody sweat, which the Evangelist mentioneth; which whether we make to be according to Nature, or above Nature, it could not proceed from fear or sorrow, as some men imagine. For fear doth drive the blood inward and cool it, and so can not thin it, and expel it by the outmost parts and pores of the Body. The Physician that wrote the Book de utilitate Respirationis amongst Galens works, saith. 
i Li. de vtilita●…e Respirationi●… Galen. attribute. ●…om. 7.  Contingit Poros ex multo aut feruido spiritu usque adeo dilatari, ut etiam exeat sanguis per eos, ●…iatque sudor sanguineus. It sometimes happeneth, that abundant or fervent spirits do so dilate the pores of the body, that blood passeth by them, and so the sweat may be bloody. If we lean not to the course of Nature for the cause of Christ's bloody sweat, than Hilaries Rule is very sound. 
k Hilarius d●… Trinitate. li 10.  It is no Infirmity, which power did above the custo●…e of Nature. No man then may dare impute Christ's sweat to weakness, because it is against Nature to sweat blood. Beda followeth him in the 
l Beda in Luc. cap. 22.  same words: Rupertus in larger. 
m Rupertus de victoria verbi Dei. li. 12. ca 21.  This is unwonted, this is above nature, the flesh whole, the skin not cut, for blood to run out of all the body, and to fall on the earth as it were sweat. Lyra receiveth the same. According to the judgement of divers 
n Lyra in Luc. ca 22.  this was supernaturally done, that blood should come forth in steed of sweat; that so Christ even then might begin to shed his blood for our salvation. Then neither in Divine nor human learning is there any necessity, that the fear of your hell pains should be the cause of this sweat, which Augustine, Prosper and Bernard ascribe unto Christ's will and power for a mystical signification, as I have showed in my 
* Serm. pag. 38. & 39  Sermons.  
Thus see we by the words of the holy Ghost, that in the Garden Christ's Soul was affected with fear, and afflicted with sorrow; his prayer proveth his submission, and intention of mind, after comfort sent him from heaven by an Angel; and his bloody sweat, if we attribute it to nature, must come from zeal; if we refer it to Christ's power above Nature, might have many causes to us unknown in particular, though we can guess at the general. Of all these circumstances, actions, and affections, there can no one direct cause be designed in special, except in large terms we will say, the work of our Redemption was the cause of them all; but neither pains, nor sufferings can precisely be determined to be the proper ground of them all, since after comfort from heaven, he fell to most fervent prayer, and therein to his bloody sweat: much less can you conclude, that hell pains were the right and true cause thereof. So that I have more reason to reject your mayor proposition as apparently false, than you have right to pronounce it firm, because you can deny mine assertion by flinging off all the Fathers, as unworthy to have their judgements regarded, outfacing the Scriptures with phrases and figures to bring them to your bent. But in the kinds of pains which Christ suffered in the Garden, we doubt as much as in the causes of his agony. You must therefore declare, what manner of pains you mean in your proposition, before we shall fully understand you.  

p Defenc. pag. 91. li. 16.  You mean it seemeth, that Christ suffered pains in his soul, by reason of the strength and zeal of his holy affections: and that those were the proper and main causes of that his most woeful and miraculous agony and complaint. Therefore not only extraordinary pains inflicted upon him by way of proper punishment, as my proposition intendeth.] You seek nothing but by confusion to cover and colour your absurd and false doctrines, and that maketh you huddle and heap things together without all distinction or exposition. Christ's agony in the Garden was before any pains inflicted on his body or soul, other than fear or sorrow, which were painful affections rising from divers occasions and causes, as we shall afterward see. His complaint on the Cross was in the midst and extremest of his pains now inherent, and afflicting both soul and body. You couple Christ's agony in the Garden with his complaint on the Cross, and yoke them together as proceeding both from one direct and particular cause, which breedeth more doubt in my answer, that should contain both in one, than truth in your argument, that objecteth both at once. That the Reader may therefore perceive whe●…eof we reason, and so the better observe the difference betwixt our assertions, let meadmonish him, that as evil to man's sense or reason, dependeth on time either passed, present, or to come; so the impression, that is thereby made in the soul of 
Evil past, present, or to come, worketh sorrow, pain, and fear in the sou●…e of man.  man is either ●…orrow, pain, or fear. Not that these words are not sometimes confounded, and their caus●…s conjoined, as sorrow and fear have pain in them, that is a sense of ●…uill past or approaching, as well in others as in ourselves; and the continuance of pain may be feared, even whiles the present grievance is suffered; but that we can expr●…sse no truth, nor admit no speech of these things if we keep not their names distinguished, as their impressions and passions are. sometimes we make but two, as timor and dolour, fear and grief; and then we comprise the third, which is sorrow for any good th●…ng passed, or lost in us or others, under grief; which is the offence of mind, that evil either pres●…nt in sense, or fresh in memory bringeth with it. SORROW than 
Sorrow.  I call the grievous remembrance of our own evils suffered, or of their evils past or approaching, whom we love. FEAR is the doubt & dislike of future evil to ourselves 
Fear.  or others; as also the declining of imminent evil, and shrinking at the sight thereof. Both th●…se are painful affections and impressions of evil, which according to their degrees and causes do often so far oppress and burden the soul in this life that they speedily part the soul from the body: and both consist in the apprehension and estimation, that the soul maketh of evil foreseen or suffered. for some men fear that, which others do not, and some regard not that, which others exceedingly grieve at. and so fear and sorrow require not only the cogitation and cognition, but the judgement & c●…nsure of the soul; which PAIN doth not. For pain dependeth neither 
Pain.  on the action, nor imagination of the soul, but is an absolute sense of present and inherent evil, that naturally offendeth the soul. for example, in the pains of the body, the soul naturally feeleth all offence rising within the body, or violently offered unto the bodi●…, though she knew not whence, or how that pain cometh. Therefore I make pain as it is distinct from fear and sorrow, and riseth from neither of them, to be a natural and absolute passion and sense of evil present and inherent in soul or body. 
q 1. john 4.  fear hath painfulness, saith Saint john; and sorrow not only 
r 2. Cor. 2.  swalloweth up men, but 
s 2. Cor. 7.  causeth death, as Paul writeth, and experience teacheth; yea 
t Prou. 13.  hope differred afflicteth the soul, saith Solomon. So that all our affections may have grief in them, love and joy not excepted, when they are disappointed: and sorrow & fear may be mitigated, but not separated from grief and dislike; yet in neither of them is the evil present & inherent, nor the sense and feeling thereof absolute or merely passive, but according as the mind conceiveth and esteemeth of the causes and objects thereof, so the grief of fear and sorrow increaseth or decreaseth.  
Now touching Christ's agony in the Garden, the Scripture avoucheth, that fear and sorrow possessed and grieved his mind, but that an absolute or inherent pain was inflicted on Christ's soul by the immediate hand of god, either in the Garden, or on the Cross, this is a late and lewd device of yours, it hath no ground nor proof in the Scriptures. And if by pains you mean this absolute kind of torment impressed on Christ's soul by Gods own hand, as you would have it; I utterly deny that any such pains presently felt were parts or causes of Christ's agony in the Garden, and so your proposition, that you feigned to be firm, hath not one true word in it.  

u Defenc. pag. 91. li. 27.  Let us try your proofs for it, and mine against it.] you mean no such matter as you pretend. For first you took hold of Christ's fear and sorrow, which were painful affections; and when you have thereby gotten the name of pain into Christ's agony, you slide from his affections, were they never so painful, and shuffle in your absolute torments of Christ's soul from the immediate hand of god, under the name of proper punishment and vengeance for sin, to be the true causes of his agony. if you think I mistake you, look back to your justified reason so lately justled in, and to the fathers, which you brought to confirm the same, and see whether I wrong you or no. your assumption and illation there, were these. Christ 
x Defenc. pag. ●…8. li. 2.  succoureth us in the feeling of the terrors of god, and releaseth us of the sorrows unmeasureable that rise thereof. therefore Christ himself had experience of them. Terrors are fears of things unwonted, which make us tremble, and sorrows are expressly named by you; both which were affections in Christ, as they are in us. you cited out of Cyrill, that 
y Ibid. li. 11.  unless Christ had feared and sorrowed (at his passion,) we had not been quit from fear and sorrow; and out of Ambrose, that Christ 
z li. 38.  in his agony with the sorrow of his soul (did) extinguish the sorrow of our souls. As also, that he carried about him our fears and our affections. 
a Defenc. pag. 48. li. 17.  minus mihi contulerat, nisimeum suscepisset affectum. Christ had done less for me, if he had not admitted MINE AFFECTIONS. Now when the affections of fear and sorrow are confessed in Christ's agony, you reject that as absurd, and will hear of no pains, but of the torments of the damned from God's immediate hand on the soul of Christ; which though you neither do nor can prove, yet you hope with prating and wrangling to seem to say somewhat.  

b Defenc. pag. 89. li. 28.  Before we come to proofs, we must know, that this your Resolution, as you call it, is first most vain; also directly contrary to yourself; and then altogether vn●…rue, and presumed by wide conjecture, as God willing I will presently show.] Perform but one of these challenges to be true, and take all the rest as granted, for your small pains therein bestowed: but your dreams are so violent, that when you stick in the mire, you think you fly in the air. You will show us your own erroneous and presumptuous folly; and other show of any matter worth the meddling with, you do make none.  

c Defenc. pag. 91. li. 32.  First I heartily entreat the Christian Reader to mark well and to consider how your L. doth contrive three notable equivocations in these few words; Christ suffered in his soul the wrath of God: which you seem to grant, but in truth you do not. And if we add also the pains of hell, than he opposeth a fourth fallacy against us. And these three or four are the only pillars of his doctrine. I make no pillars of my doctrine, but the manifest words of the Holy Ghost teaching us by the Scriptures the price and manner of our redemption; which lest any man should think I divert, and wrest to my private or secret conceits, as you do, I show the ancient and true Church of Christ did so belee●…e them and expound them before me. The pillars of your doctrine are phrases, follies, and falsities, which if you did not hide with general and ambiguous words, the considerate Reader without entreaty would soon mark your mysteries: but because you are so kind as heartily to pray the Reader to mark how you play the man, I desire him likewise to observe, how shamefully you come short of your great brags, and even betray your cause to him that well considereth it.  

d Defenc. pag. 91. li. 37.  For the three former, your first equivocation is in the word, Suffered: and about it we deal in this place. 
e Et pag. 92. li. 19  Now your next equivocation is in this, He suffered in soul. Your next, in God's wrath. Both which I have plainly showed before. As also your fourth fallacy, which may be called Fallacia accidentis.] To the three last notable equivocations, as he calleth them, here is all that this Defensor speaketh in this place, where he would have thee, Christian Reader, so considerately to mark some marvelous matters. And thus shalt thou often be troubled with his vain tattling, when thou most expectest either his proofs or his promises. He sendeth thee back to peruse his former pages, where thou shalt find as little to the purpose, as here thou dost, though words he wanted not to cover his conceits. Is there be any thing in those pages proved by him, which I have not in the same places confuted, I am content to hazard the peril of thy censure. Howbeit, I think thou mayest perceive by my carriage, that I desire to avoid and prevent all ambiguities, as much as in me lieth. I speak as plainly as my simple ability will suffer me; I distinguish things as evidently, as either the matter permitteth, or the truth requireth. And therefore he, that in all his defence hath yet uttered not one distinct and clear sentence touching his cause, but clouded and cloaked with proper and mere, and such like shifts, and shadows never expounded by himself, and known to no man, but himself, hath small reason, (though as much in this as in the rest) to say that fallacies are the Pillars of my doctrine. But if thou believe peddlers praising their own wares; then mayest thou credit this booke-maker craking of his clear and Sunshine proofs, which he himself neither expresseth, nor understandeth. The equivocation of the word SUFFERING which in this place his mastershipp will deal withal, will give thee a taste, what thou shalt look for in the rest.  

f Defenc. pag. 92. li, 1.  The common and ordinary phrase understandeth herein, Christ's feeling of pains inflicted on him by way of PROPER punishment and satisfaction for sin, which he undertook for us. Only this in the ordinary and usual manner of speech is signified by Christ's suffering, or his passion: and so we always understand by it.] This is one of your enlightened and purified expositions, which is as fair and bright, as the darkness of Egypt. Do men usually & ordinarily describe Christ's passion to be nothing else, but the feeling of pains inflictedon him by way of proper punishment? who useth these words by way of proper punishment, besides yourself and your adherents, who under that colour would secretly convey the pains of the damned into the soul of Christ? for what is the proper punishment of sin? that which all sinners not Redeemed by Christ must endure, or that which all men being sinners do endure, or that which none endured but Christ alone, because it was proper to the dignity of his person, with that punishment, which god laid on him by the hands and mouths of men, to satisfy the justice of God for our sins, and utterly to abolish the guilt and wages of our sin? Proper may be either to the damned, whose sins are never pardoned; or proper to sin in all mankind, ever since the first man forsook his Creator; or proper to Christ's person, and not common to him with the damned. Which of all these senses do you contain in the word Proper? You spoke even now of equivocations, and made a grievous complaint to your Reader, that I meant to cirumvent you with ambiguities; and what is this but to turn your Readers eyes aside on me, whiles you play your part with the main work of Christ's passion for man's Redemption? how often have I challenged in you this shifting with proper and improper, when and where pleased you? Christ's sufferings in all men's speeches, save yours, were far larger than his passion. He suffered affliction all the time of his life, yea the whole course of his life was a continual suffering of reproaches, disdains, dispites: besides the natural infirmities of our flesh, as hunger, cold, weariness, weeping and such like, which in his person were all sufferings, and yet no man calleth his life his passion: his passion we take to be the manner of his death, and so all his sufferings from the Garden to the grave, imposed on him by the hands, mouths, or hearts of men betraying, forsaking, or pursuing him, were parts of his passion. The false accusing and unjust condemning him, the mocking, reproaching, and reviling him to be wicked and forsaken of God, were parts of his passion, and yet these were no inherent nor sensible pains, of which you would seem to speak, when you exclude his affections of fear and grief of mind, as no parts of his passion.  

g Defenc. pag. 91. li. 6.  You cunningly take another rare sense of this word, as it signifieth the affections of the mind in Christ wholly bend to holiness, and obedience of god.] you are a learned Squire, that do not understand, the soul suffereth as well by her affections, as by her senses; and that in Christ the hearts and tongues of the jews concurred to his passion, as well as their hands. The affections and perturbations of the soul are usually and properly called by the Greek father's 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and by the Latin, passiones, passions or sufferings of the mind. The Apostles apply the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, SUFFERINGS, both in Christ and in us, as evenly, and as often to fear, sorrows, rebukes, reproaches, losses, and such like griefs of mind, as to stripes and other violences proffered to the body. Manifest proofs thereof are every where occurrent in the Scriptures. 
h Heb. 10 v. 32  Remember the former days (saith the Apostle to the H●…brewes) wherein you sustained 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a great conflict of sufferings; partly whiles ye were made a spectacle with reproaches and troubles, partly whiles you did communicate with them that were so used. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, for you had a joint feeling of my bands, and received with joy the spoiling of your goods. Yet had they 
i Hebr. 12.  not as yet resisted unto blood by striving against sin. So Peter: 
k 1. Pet. 4.  Wherein you communicate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, with the sufferings of Christ, rejoice, that in the re●…elation of his glory you may be glad and joyful. If you be reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, and the spirit of glory resteth on you. And again: 
l 1. Pet. 2.  This is thanks with God, if a man for conscience to God endure sorrows, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, suffering unjustly. Paul's afflictions, which he calleth his infirmities, (even as he saith: 
m 2. Cor 13.  Christ was crucified through infirmity) are reckoned in many places by himself, amongst which are 
n 2. Cor. 6.  Reproach, infamy, want, sorrow, fear of 
o & 11.  danger, 
o & 11.  care, affection and 
o & 11.  zeal for others 
o & 11.  weakened or 
o & 11.  offended; whereby it may be seen, what was meant by the words of Christ touching Paul's sufferings, 
p Acts 9  I will show him how many (or how great) things he shall suffer for my name; and by his own, I rejoice 
q Coloss. 1.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in my sufferings for you. Yea not only fear and sorrow of mind, which are the painfnll affections of our nature, but even corporal affections, though natural, were sufferings in Christ. Damascene writing of the natural and innocent, yet painful passions and sufferings, which Christ took unto him, saith: 
r Damascen. orthodoxae fidei. li. 3. ca 20.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, natural and innocent passions (or sufferings) are those what soever, which entered into man's life by the condemnation of the first transgression; as hunger, thirst, weariness, labour, weeping, vexation, declination of death, fear, agony, and such like, which are naturally in all men. These all Christ took unto him, that he might sanctify all.  
And how can it be otherwise, since the soul feeleth pain and grief, as well by her understanding and will, as by her senses, and that in other men's dangers and troubles, where love and pity prevail with us, no less then in our own. 
s August. de civitate Dei. li. 14. ca 6.  what is fear and sorrow (saith Austen) but the will dissenting from those things which displease us? and generally according to the variety of things which are desired or shunned, as the will is pleased or offended, so is it changed a●…d turned into these or those affections. Then as nature teacheth us to fear our own dangers foreseen by sense or understanding, and to sorrow for our present miseries or losses; so love teacheth us to do the like in other men's harms either present or approaching, whose persons the more we embrace, their perils and overthrows the more we lament. Now he that is 
t De civitate D●…i. li. 12. ●…a. 16.  affected, suffereth, saith Austen. Neither are the violences offered to the body called pains, but because the soul by nature disliketh them, howsoever by faith she may be content to endure them for God's cause; and so the impressions of fear and sorrow, in that they are painful, they are sufferings of the soul, though charity persuade them in other men's troubles, or necessity impose them in our own cases, or piety raise them in respect of God. 
u Psal. 51.  A broken heart and contrite spirit, is it not a suffering, because it is a sacrifice unto God? 
x Philip. 2.  Work●… your salvation, saith the Apostle, with fear and trembling. Are these no sufferings, because they tend to salvation? 
y Matth. 5.  Blessed are you when men reproach you and pursue you, and speak all evil against you falsely for my sake. Rejoice and be glad, for great is your reward in heaven; so pursued they the Prophets before you. This is a great blessedness, and yet a great suffering of mind, to be reviled and slandered; and therefore holiness in Christ, as in the Saints, did not exclude, but rather commend and advance Christ's sufferings.  

z D●…fenc. pag. 92. li. 12.  Speak plainly I beseech you, and deceive us not. Call not this his soul's suffering, but his ●…oules holiness and righteousues.] I call that SUFFERING in Christ, which was painful and grievous unto him; though withal it were righteous and holy. 
a Matth. 11.  Blessed are they that suffer persecution for Righteousness. Shall it be no persecution, or no suffering, 
All Christ's sufferings were rig●…teous and holy.  by reason the cause is righteous and holy, for which the godly do suffer, and their patience and submission to god in their troubles are duties of holiness? all sufferings in Christ were most righteous and holy, for in them he showed not only voluntary patience, and obedience, but innocence also. Doth this make his stripes, wounds, or death to be no sufferings because he 
b 1. Pet 3.  Suffered the just for the unjust? Deceive not yourself, and I see no man else, that goeth about to beguile you. I speak not of those works of piety and charity, which Christ performed to God and man with joy and delight; I speak of those infirmities, temptations, and affections, which were grievous and painful unto him, though the suffering and enduring thereof were most religious and righteous in him. And you, that sever his holiness and righteousness from his sufferings, as if he were defiled and accursed with them, lewdlie abuse both the word of God, and faith of Christ, which contain no such thing.  

c Defenc. pag. 92. li. 10.  Christ's exact and perfect keeping of God's just law, and his sufferings, are two parts of Christ's mediation greatly differing, and ought not both in truth be called his passion or satisfaction for sin.] His passion I call the things suffered at or about the time of his death; because not the instant of breathing out his soul, but the whole order and manner of coming to his death after his last supper, is by the Scriptures enclosed in the name of his death, and by all sober and advised writers called his Passion or suffering of death. His whole life besides was full of sufferings, and even those natural infirmities of hunger, thirst, weariness, and such like, were voluntary sufferings in him, because he had power enough in himself to repress or exclude those punishments in●…licted for sin on our nature; and consequently the infirmities and affections of mind, that were gri●…tious, were likewise voluntary sufferings in him, and pertained to the humility and obedience, to which he submitted himself for the fuller satisfaction of our sins, as well by his life as death. That our whole life is a suffering for our sin in Adam, S. Austen exactly noteth: 
d August. in Psal. 37.  Non enim in illum non est vindicat●…m; a●…t frustra dixerat Deus, morte morieris: aut aliquid patimur in ista vita, nisi ex illa morte, quam meruimus primo peccato. Neither did God not revenge Adam, nor said in vain: Thou shalt die the death; neither do we suffer any thing in this life, but from that death which we deserved by the first sin. And making an example of hunger, saith; 
e August. ibid.  Ista fames, naturalis quidam morbus est, quia natura nobis facta est poena ex vindicta. Primo homin●… quod erat poena, natura nobis est. This hunger (of the body) is a disease of nature, because the punishment inflicted (on Adam) to revenge (his sin) is our nature. That which was punishment to the first man, is become nature to us. Christ then in partaking our nature, did partake with our punishment, and his submitting himself to that, what was it but a continual suffering of our punishment, by feeling our natural infirmities both of soul and body, though still without sin, and all natural necessity, as in us; that his obedience might be the more evident and acceptable unto God. So that it is no equivocation in me, to call fear and sorrow of mind in Christ, sufferings for sin, notwithstanding they were innocent and obedient in him, and so parts of his human holiness and righteousness directly tending to satisfaction for our sinful disobedience. The full price and payment whereof was death, the close of man's life, which as it was the last, so was it the greatest and weightiest part of his obedience, and recompense to God's justice for our sins: but it is an idle vagation in you, when you can neither refute nor resist the truth, to make an appeal against ambiguities, when you yourself can neither prove, nor dare plainly express, that you intent.  

f Defenc. pag. 92. li. 21.  Sir I hope you will not think to beat down all afore you with nothing but cunning, yet vain deceit, countenanced out with cruel and hateful words.] You lack an Ostler to bring you to bed, you have traveled sore, as a man may see by your foaming at mouth. If I say any thing, that I do not particularise and prove to be the received and public doctrine of Christ's Church agreeing with the Scriptures for many hundred years, before your device of hell pains in Christ's soul was heard of amongst Christians, let me lose in God's name both my labour and my credit with the Reader: but if you, that stand jangling about proper punishment and mere vengeance for sin, and will not one word further, cry out in your passions, as sick men do in their dreams, that you are overborne with cunning and countenance, they are not all wise men, that have parts in plays, nor all true men, that talk of losing by the high ways.  

g Defenc. pag. 92. li. 24.  Further you are in this your Resolution directly contrary to yourself, as before I have briefly yet sufficiently showed.] So saith he, that neither agreeth with the truth, no●… with himself. Ignorance in you is no prejudice to me, much l●…sse malicious folly, that pronounce before you understand; and take nothing right, though it be never so plainly delivered. In the place where you challenged my contrariety, I put in a full discharge thereof, and here you repeat the very same, though you would seem freshly to find out some solemn matter.  

h Defenc. pag. 92. li. 26.  Again you censure yourself very sharply, for your resoluteness in this cause (where you say) It is curiosity to examine, presumption to determine, impossibility to conclude certainly, what was the true cause thereof.] To affirm every thing and confirm nothing, is grown now such a trade with you, that you have neither care, nor conscience what you say. Could you certainly conclude, what was the true cause of Christ's agony, you 
The precise and particula●… cause of Christ's agony is not revealed, though the g●…nerall occasions may be con iectured.  were free from this censure; but in that you bring nothing besides your own conceits no way grounded or supported by any evidence of the sacred Scriptures, my speech is verified in you, that since it is impossible out of the Scriptures to conclude any certain (that is particular and precise) cause of this agony, which hath so many parts and secrets not revealed unto us; it is presumption in you to determine, that the present suffering of hell pains from the immediate hand of god, was the cause thereof; and to call it in question, argueth itching curiosity to search for that, which is concealed from us. Why then do I conclude resolutely, that the cause of Christ's agony 
i Defenc. pag. 91. li 12.  could not proceed, but from his submission to God, or compassion to men or both?] Do I conclude any CERTAIN or precise cause in particular, that make so many diversities of general causes, that might be, as submission to God, or compassion on men, or both? They say bruit beasts do bewray themselves to want all reason, by want of numbering. Take heed lest if you see no distance betwixt THREE general heads or occasions of Christ's fears and sorrows, and ONE certain and precise cause thereof, men think there lieth somewhat else in you under a man's skin. For what else should I say to the grossness of his conceits, that hath not learned to understand the difference betwixt three general disiunctives, and one special and certain a●…firmatiue? My resoluteness if your Brains were not buzzed with more pride than skill, is against your pains of the damned to be suffered in the Soul of Christ, since neither damnation nor confusion could take hold of him; but they that will not wilfully blind themselves, as you do, with your presumptuous fancies, must believe, that piety to god, and charity to men, or both led Christ to these fears and sorrows, which the Scriptures mention in his agony; though we cannot precisely pronounce, what particular respects moved each afsection in him.  

k D●…fenc. pag. 92. li. 29.  Thirdly where you make but two causes, submission to God, and compassion to men, else where but one, religious fear; but before you very precisely made six: if you agree no better with yourself, I have small hope you will agree with us.] To look for learning, wisdom, or sobriety from him that hath none, is to look in vain. Some would seem rich by often looking on that little, which is left, when all is spent: and you would seem learned by oft●…n telling us one tale, though it contain nothing but lies and toys. That I make but one cause, to wit Religious fear, in the 23 Page of my Sermons, look there who list, he shall find you a fabler. In the fifth cause that might be of Christ's agony, which was the deprecation of God's wrath, I yielded to some men's speeches so far, (for quietness sake,) that it ●…ight be said, Christ feared, that is, 
l Serm. pag. 22 li. 2●….  shunned everlasting death: and that the sight of god's wrath 
l Serm. pag. 21. li. 19  tempered and made ready for the fins of men, which the Scripture calleth a cup, 
n Pa. 22. li 35.  might for a time somewhat astonish the human nature of Christ; yet so, that the sight of our sins, and the wages thereof 
o Pa. 23. li. 2.  impressed nothing (that is no fear) in the soul of Christ, but a religious fear to sorrow for the one, and pray against the other. Here are expressly named religious fear, sorrow and (zealous) prayer; occasioned by the sight of the cup of God's wrath prepared for our sins. How then doth this exclude the rest of the causes, which are there precedent or consequent? or how come you to cast away Christ's sorrow for sin, and prayer against the desert of our evil deeds, (whereof the first rose from the submission, that Christ made unto God's wrath provoked, and the second from the compassion, that Christ had towards men endangered) and to leave but one, where I name three? Are you so well skilled in the Scriptures, that you do not know, a Religious fear of God compriseth the whole service of God; and therefore might much more contain the holiness of Christ's affections, when he submitted himself to the will and hand of God for our sakes? What rudeness then, or rashness, or both is this, when I note divers parts or effects of one thing, or use divers words to describe one and the same matter, for you to quote out contrarieties by Arithmetic, because the words be different, and never to weigh the sense in which they accord?  
So trifle you with the two general causes, as if they could not contain the six special that, I say, might be of Christ's agony, when yet those six are but remembrances of some respects, that Christ might have in his fear and sorrow; and those two comprehend all six as parts, or consequents of Christ's submission to God and compassion on men. Neither do I pretend or profess, that every of these six was the whole and entire cause of his agony; (It is your dottage so to dream, and no piece of my mind.) These six, and many more reasons and occasions Christ might have at that time to fear and sorrow, wherein I do not determine, which was the full and true cause of that agony; but how many respects might lead him to fear and sorrow at that present, which I do not conclude as certain, but propose as possible, and far more probable, than your real pains of the damned supposed at that instant actually to torment the soul of Christ. Leave therefore your one, two, and six, to Tilers to tell their pings, or Wittols to number their Geese; and show that either I determine any precise or particular cause of Christ's agony, thereby to deserve mine own censure, as you do; or that those six, which I mention, may not be referred to those two generals, which I note, that so at least you may make me disagree with myself.  

p Defence pag. 92. li. 32.  Last of all this your resolution, making Christ's piety and pity to be the only proper and main cause of all his woeful passion, is utterly false and untrue, having no ground but mere conjectures.] Your memory is as brickle, as your reason is feeble. Those six causes of Christ's agony, and not of all his woeful passion, as you lightly leap you know not whither, I did no otherwise propose, then that they 
q Serm. pag. 17. li. 28. 29.  might be, & every one of them more likely, and more godly, than your device of hell pains. As for the only cause of that agony, I meddled with no such matter, my words are euide●…t to the contrary: 
r Ibid. li. 30.  Others at their leisures may think on more, which I shallbe content to h●…are; but that piety, or charity, or both must be the Roots of Christ's fear and sorrow, and not infidelity and distrust of God's favour towards his person or function, nor the Real and inherent sense of Hell pains common to him with the damned as you do peremptorily, but pestilently dream; in that I said I was resolute, and so I yet remain. And you shall sooner prove yourself to be the man in the Moon, than Christ's soul to have been tormented with any real pains inflicted on him by the immediate hand of God, which position of yours hath impiety for the ground, and folly for the proof; howsoever you think to face it out with your insolent verbosity.  

s Defence pag. 92. li. 37.  Your first cause is submission to the majesty of God-sitting in judgement, when Christ was thus astonished and agonized therewith:] I pray thee Christian Reader to remember in all these causes, what was my purpose and promise even now specified, not to conclude 
The first cause concurring to Christ's agoni●….  these as necessary and entire causes of Christ's agony, but to show them possible, and more likely and Godly, than his pageant of Hell pains inflicted on the soul of Christ. The reason, that led me to set down this as one of the causes, that MIGHT BE of Christ's agony, (for so I always mean, though perhaps in course of speech I always add not so much,) were the words of our Saviour. 
t john 1●….  Now is the judgement of this world, now shall the Prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I were lift up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This said he signifying what death he should die. The judgement, which here our Saviour noteth, was not at that instant, when he spoke these words, but at an hour to come, when Satan the Prince of this world should be 
u john 16.  judged, that is ejected and cast out from 
x revel. 12.  accusing the Saints, and the 
x revel. 12.  salvation of God and power of his Christ established in heaven. So much the words of Christ imported, when he said, Now shall the Prince of this world be cast out; and not, now already is he cast out. This judgement than was Redemptorie, not condemnatori●…, wherein the son of God in our flesh was admitted to make satisfaction for the sins of all, that should believe in him; and to pay the price that should appease the justice of God provoked by our misdeeds, and so to reconcile us to the favour of God by the blood of his Cross, that there might be no more place for Satan to accuse us any longer 
y revel. 12.  night and day before God as otherwise he did. The issue of this judgement Christ before expressed, when he said, and I, if I were exalted (to the Cross) will draw all men unto me; And after, when rising from his fervent prayer, he said; 
z Mark 14.  Behold the son of man is delivered into the hands of sinners. As also to the jews, that came to apprehend him. 
a Luke 22.  This is your very hour and the power of darkness; as likewise to Peter, when he 
b john 18.  drew his sword, and smote the high Priests servant, and cut of his right ear; put up thy sword into thy sneath, 
b john 18.  shall I not drink of the cup (saith Christ) which the Father hath given me? The fruit of this judgement is every where specified in the Scriptures. 
c 1. Pet. 2.  Christ bore our sins in his body on the Tree, by whose stripes ye were healed, that being delivered from sin, we should live to righteousness. What need you then so curiously question, Against whom or in what cause sat God in judgement now when Christ was thus astonished, and agonized? God sat in judgement to receive satisfaction for the sins of his elect at the hands of his own Son by his humility and obedience unto death.  

d Defenc. pag. 93. li. 3.  Of necessitte it must be one of these three ways. First, God's majesty and great justice now at this time might sit in judgement against us, and so consequently, yea chiefly against Christ himself as our Ransomepaier & Surety in our steed. 
e li. 16.  Secondly, God might be considered now as judging Satan the Prince of this world. 
f Pa. 94. li. 40.  Thirdly, God's majesty & justice may be considered sitting in judgement merely against sinfullmen.] You be copious where you need not, and careless, where most cause is you should be circumspect, to make an idle show of small skill, you bring here a TRIPLE judgement of God; First, against us and Christ our surety; Secondly, against Satan; Thirdly, against sinful men, which were either elect or reprobate: as though one and the same judgement of God for man's Redemption did not concern all three: to wit, Christ as the Redeemer, 
God's judgement for our redemption concerneth Christ, men, and Satan.  Satan as the accuser, the Elect as the ransomed, leaving the reprobate in their sins through their unbelief unto the dreadful day of vengeance. In that the Redeemer was by this judgement received and allowed to make satisfaction for the sins of his elect, Satan was excluded from all place and power to accuse them for sin, or to reign over them by sin, and the purgation of their sins, which should believe in Christ, being made by the Person of the Saviour, they were reconciled to God by the death of Christ and discharged from the wrath to come; the anger of god remaining on such, as by faith obeyed not the son of God. Save therefore your fruitless pains in the rest, and show why the beholding of God's power and justice now sitting in judgement to redeem the world, and to receive recompense from the person of Christ for the sins of men, might not breed a religious fear and trembling in the human nature of Christ.  

g Defenc. pag. 93. li..  If you mean that thus Christ with submission beholding his Father in judgement at this time was cast into this agony, it is the very truth, and the same which we maintain.] You take this for a show to build your fancies on, but as your manner is you abuse truths to serve your turns. Let it stand for good, that Christ now beheld his Father 
Christ might behold the power of his Father's wrath against sin, and yet not fear the vengeance due to the wicked.  sitting in judgement to require recompense for the sins of the faithful; what followeth? that God awarded the self same vengeance against the person of Christ, that we had deserved, and should have suffered, if we had not been redeemed? This is a false, heretical, and blasphemous conclusion no way coherent to the premises, and no way consonant to the Scriptures. For than final destruction, desperation, confusion and everlasting damnation of soul and body to hell fire, which without question were the wages of our sins, as we may see by their example, that are not cleansed from sin by the blood of Christ, must without reservation or remedy have lighted on the person of Christ. If that vengeance of sin, which was due to us, could by no justice be inflicted on the person of the son of God, no not, if he had borne the sins of the whole world; how then could the doubt or fear of his punishment on himself cast him into this agony? you will release him of the circumstance, but tie him to the substance of the self same pains, which the damned endure. When you sit in judgement on Christ, show your wicked and witless conceits, as much as you list; but the father, to whom of right it appertained, sitting in judgement to receive 〈◊〉 from the person of his son, who was most willing thereto, ne did, ne could by justice determine any thing against his own son, that should either derogate from the person of Christ, or abrogate the love which God professed and pronounced so often from heaven towards him. God might have condemned us, that most justly deserved it; but to adjudge the same condemnation to his own Son, was simply impossible to the justice, holiness, truth and love of God. For so the union of Christ's person must either be dissolved, which god hath faithfully sworn, and mightily wrought, or else the second person in Trinity must have tasted of the same vengeance with the damned and with the Devils, which is a blasphemy that the Devil never dreamed, nor durst to broche.  

h Defence pag. 93. li. 8.  This 〈◊〉 not, but that Christ had recall pains inflicted from the Father, as from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against us in him, who were thus acquitted by him. Not denying is a slender proof of that which you should with most infallible certainty conclude 〈◊〉 you did a 〈◊〉. If Christ's manhood might and did righteously and justly sear and tremble at the glory, power and majesty of God sitting now in judgement to proportion the price that should be paid for man's ransom, how doth that 〈◊〉, the real pains of the damned were inflicted on the soul of Christ at that instant, except in mad men's conceits, which respect more their pangs than their proofs, and prefer their wills before the wisdom of God's spirit, or witness of man's reason. All judgement against sin, you will say, tendeth unto condemnation.] No judgement against the Son of God could proceed unto damnation for what or whose sins soever. And therefore to me, and to all that observe the words of the Holy Ghost, it is a clearer case than the Sunne-shining at noon day, that we are reconciled to God by the death of his Son, and healed by his stripes, who bore our sins in his body on the tree, and whose 〈◊〉 was shed for many for remission of sins. Your infliction of hell pains on the soul of Christ is no such trifle, that it may be lightly taken up for your pleasure, or humorously surmised upon your vain conjectures; you must evidently and inevitablely prove it, before any wise or sober Christian will or should believe it. Ch●…istes fear and agony, you think, could have no other cause.] Of all others this can never be concluded to have been the cause, since there is no witness nor word thereof in all the Scriptures. That everlasting damnation was due to our sins, we have no doubt, but that any such judgement could be decreed or executed against the Son of God, or against any part of his person, we less doubt. Wherefore it is most manifest to all that list not to mix their desperate devices with Gods eternal truth, that no such judgement could be given against the person of Christ, as we should have 〈◊〉, or as the damned feel; but the 
i Esa. 53.  chastisement of our peace was laid upon him, and 
k Heb. 5.  though he were the Son, yet by the things which he suffered, he learned obedience. [It is no judgement, you will say, where nothing is condemned.] In the final judgement of God against the wicked, both their sins and their persons shall be condemned; that is, their persons shallbe everlastingly rejected and adjudged to perpetual torments of body and soul in hell fire for their sins, which God justly hateth and punisheth. In the 
l 1. Pet. 4.  judgement, which beginneth at the house of God, sin is condemned in their flesh, as it was in Christ's, but their persons are beloved in Christ, and so cleansed from sin by him that sanctifieth himself for their sakes, and whose blood cleanseth them from all their sins. The pattern of which judgement was precedent in Christ their head, to whose 
m Rom. 8.  image the whole body must be conformed, that 
n 2. Tim. 2.  suffering with him, they may reign with him, and being 
o 1. Pet. 4.  condemned as touching men in the flesh, they may live as touching God in the spirit. There must be the same mind in us, that was in Christ, even as there is the same condemnation in our flesh that was in his. For in Christ and all his members, sin was condemned in the flesh, that their spirits might live to God, and their bodies be raised again to be partakers of the same bliss with their spirits. The Scriptures therefore do not appoint the judgement of hell or of the damned unto Christ and his members, but only the destruction of their flesh joined with the salvation of their spirits.  
What need had Christ (you will ask) to fear this judgement?] As Christ had less need to fear the judgement seat of God, than all his members, so had he more will, care and power to give God his due, than all the rest of his brethren. And therefore approaching to God for sinners and with sin, as he undertook their persons and cause, that is, to present them to God, and to proffer satisfaction for their sins; so he taught us all our duties, which is, to approach the throne of Majesty with all reverence and fear, when we behold his passing glory, and our exceeding infirmity, and in faith of his goodness, and fear of his greatness, to tremble and shake before him. This Christian submission which God requireth of all men, Christ did most of all perform, when he presented us and our cause to God; and therefore prostrate flat on the earth, he humbled himself with greater fear and trembling (but without distrust or doubt of God's favour) than ever man before or since did. This fear and trembling with all submission and devotion yielded by the human nature of Christ to the divine Majesty of God, you no way like; but in a self conceit will have it to be the fear of desperate and damned persons, and Christ's soul to be actually tormented with the same pains that are the sharpest in hell: and all this you gather upon none other ground, but for that Christ exceedingly feared and sorrowed in the Garden. But if no man guided by God's spirit may hear the words, do the works, or receive the messengers of God, but with fear and trembling, as a service and duty belonging to the Creator from the weakness of the creature; how much more might the human nature of Christ now offering us all, that were sinful, to the presence of God with infinite desire and most ardent prayer to make recompense in his own person for our offences; and so through his love and savour with God, to reconcile us to God; how much more I say might Christ in our cause and in our names show all possible fear and trembling to so great Majesty so mightily displeased with us? And therefore in either respect both of his own religious humility, and our sinful infirmity, he might perform this service and submission unto the throne of God's heavenly presence.  

p Defenc. pag. 93. li. 32.  Your testimonies touching men sinful, make nothing to the purpose at all: for these could not by reason of their sins endure the very presence of God's Majesty, being in any measure revealed unto them: but Christ in himself being free from all sin, could be in no such case.] Your exceptions are more frivolous, and no way fit your fancies: for what if conscience of sin breed an amazed fear in men, when the glorious presence of God is in any measure revealed unto them, doth that exclude the religious affection & submission of fear and trembling, which man's weakness in this life oweth to the divine Majesty? 
q Esa. 66.  Him will I respect (saith God) that is poor in spirit, and trembleth at my words. Not only Gods glory revealed, but his word denounced requireth submission and reverent trembling. 
r Phil. 2.  Work your salvation (saith the Apostle) with fear and trembling; not meaning men should always be amazed, or that God still revealed his glorious presence, but that our infirmity remembered, and his Majesty considered, we should do all things commanded by him with fear and trembling. Of the Corinthians Paul testifieth, that they received Tite 
s 2. Cor. 7.  with fear and trembling. Such reverence the faithful yield to the words and works of God, that they tremble at the presence of his messengers. And lest you should think, that only conscience of sin, and the brightness of God's presence impress this affection, the Apostle requireth servants to obey their 
t Ephes. 6.  carnal masters with fear and trembling: and witnesseth of himself, when he preached the Gospel to the Corinthians, he 
u 1. Cor. 2.  was amongst them in fear and much trembling. So that not only guilt of sin maketh men to fear and fly the sight of God, as in Adam, when he first transgressed; and in Peter, before he was called (whose words you abuse, to elude the rest, which is brought against you) but in all our actions, duties and affections we are willed by the holy Ghost, to have a religious and reverent respect with fear & trembling to the word, will and presence of God. 
x Heb. 12.  Let us have grace, thereby to serve and please God with reverence and fear. Where we are taught, that not sin, but grace maketh men to serve and please God with reverence and fear, which before are called fear and trembling, during the time of our conversing here on earth. Though then Christ did neither fly, nor fear the presence of God for any conscience of sin, yet his human nature consisting of our flesh, and compassed as yet with our infirmity, knew well what religious and reverent submission with fear and trembling was due from the creature to the creator; and specially, when he presented us that were sinful to the throne of Grace: for whom he humbled himself under the mighty hand of God, to abolish our pride, and approached God's presence with unspeakable care and sorrow, fear and trembling, to recompense our heavy dullness and careless neglect both of God's anger and our own danger. Which Christ observed in his own Disciples, that otherwise dearly loved him, and were often called on by him to watch and pray, and yet were they in their deepest s●…eepe, when he was in his greatest agony.  

y Defenc. pag. 93. li 37.  No better is that of the Angels (mere creatures) veiling their faces at the glorious presence of God the Creator of all: but Christ the Mediator was not a mere creature, but always personally united with greater power than the Angels were; and always sustained by it.] As if the manhood of Christ did not hunger and thirst, waxed weary, and wept, though it were always united to his Godhead. The greater his power, by which he might have refused and repelled all infirmity, the greater his humility and obedience, that would subject himself of his own good will to these afflictions and affections of man's weakness. By suffering of death, as likewise in all our infirmities, he made himself 
z Heb. 2.  lower than the Angels; yet what doth that hinder, but the manhood of Christ, which was made of a woman, and therefore a creature, though personally joined with the Creator by the great goodness and grace of God, might in the days of his flesh most willingly submit itself with religious fear and trembling, since that either showed the thankfulness of the creature to the creator for so great honour and favour, as to be received into the conjunction and communion of the Godhead, or declared his love and likeness tó us, that in our cause would lay down his power and right for the time, and be like affected with us, that so he might commend us unto God? You can be content, that the 
a Defenc. pag. 94. li. 5.  Godhead should purposely hide itself as it were, and withdraw his wont comfort, that the manhood of Christ might be subject to the pains of the damned, which you call full punishment for us; but you can not hear, that the Godhead should guide the manhood of Christ to humble itself in our cause with a most religious and reverent fear and trembling, to give God his due, and thereby to teach all his members to do the like. But if the Apostle speak most truly, that the 
b Rom. 8. v. 26  spirit itself maketh requests for us with sighs which cannot be expressed; why should not the manhood of Christ much more perform the part that is proper to his office, to pray for transgressors, with all affection and submission belonging to God either from our nature, or from our condition? In sin Christ might not communicate with us; but since sorrow for sin, and most humble submission to the power of God displeased with sin, are rather in Christ's person recompenses for sin (which we could not make) than infections of sin; why should you by pretence of Christ's power make those religious offices impossible to him, whom notwithstanding you will have amazed and confounded in all the powers and parts of soul and body with the terror and fear of your hell pains? Is your zeal so great for Christ's power, that you will not have him trouble himself with any religious submission of mind to the throne of God's glory, by his example to teach us to tremble at the greatness thereof; and yet you spare not to load him with unspeakable terrors and fears of God's indignation, and his own confusion? Such devotion doth well beseem your hellish inventions, but it no way sorteth with Christian religion.  

c Defence pag. 93. li. 11.  If Austen and others sentences (in the 350. and 34. Pages of your Sermons) be thus understood, that the complaint on the Cross, was not Christ's in respect of himself, but in respect of his Church, for whom then and there he answered before God coming now to execute judgement for their sin, so are they well, and rightly understood: otherwise there is not truth in them, namely as you seem to use them.] Your twisting Christ's Agony in the Garden and his complaint on the Cross in one thread, that the one may seem the cause of the other; showeth your humorous conceit preferring your rash apprehension before the judgement of all the ancient Fathers. I sever them, because in the first Christ showed fear and sorrow; in the second on the Crosle, he suffered real and actual pain of Body and Soul, which of his Agony you cannot prove, though you presume it never so proudly in spite of all the Fathers cited by me, of whom you pronounce with as much disdain as a crawling Creature can, there is no truth in them, if they be not of your mind. But leave this pride, that puffeth you up with such vanity, and pricketh you forward to so much falsity; Athanasius, Cyprian, Hilary, jerom, Epiphanius, Ambrose, Augustine, Leo, and the rest shall go with all wise men for religious and advised Interpreters, when such an huff-cap, as you are, shall be thought fitter to learn, hen to teach. Of their expositions, when we come to that circumstance of Christ's passion, God willing we will say more; in the mean time I might not bury your braving them, (that there is no truth in them) lest with my silence I should smooth your insolence.  

d Defenc. pag. 93. li. ●…6.  In respect as God proceeded against Satan and for this cause, that Christ should be cast into these dreadful fears, sorrows and bloody agonies, what man of judgement will Imagine? what colour of likelihood is there in it?] That Satan was presently cast out from hindering man's salvation, and should in the end be trodden under foot; that Christ obtained by his prayer for us: but what spoil he should make in the Church of Christ by heresy, iniquity and Tyranny, when our Saviour beheld, who could not be ignorant thereof, why should not that move the manhood of Christ both grecuously to sorrow for the weakness and dullness, falls and offences of his members, as also with most vehement and inflamed zeal, even unto the sweeting of blood, to pray against the power and rage of Satan, to have it cut short and fully subjecteth, as all other enemies, under his and our feet? And who of any sense will think it strange, that Christ approaching the brunt of his passion should perform that to all, which he professed to Peter and the rest. 
e Luke. 22.  Behold Satan hath desired you to winnow you as wheat, but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: because he was the first that should have most need? Christ was able without prayer, if we respect his divine power, to uphold Peter and all the rest against the worst, that Satan could do unto them; 
f john 17.  Whiles I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name, those that thou gavest me, have I kept, and none of them is lost: But this was the time of his submission and humiliation even unto death, and therefore soreseeing himself and all his members by Gods just judgement to be so far delivered into Satan's hands, that they should be sifted with all manner of temptations and trials; as he most humbly submitted himself, and his members thereto, so he most affectionately and with greater vehemency, than ever man did or could pray, desired the feebleness and folly of his elect to be forgiven them, and the old and cruel serpent's head to be bruised, and conquered, that he might have no power, but to bite their heels. These I say, and many more occasions and reasons might lead our Saviour to that prayer so full of compassion and affection to us, that even fervency might open the pores of his body, and strain forth his blood, to show that he bent all the powers of Body and Soul in making his prayers unto God.  
As for joy and triumph, which this conquest over Satan did and doth bring, I make no doubt thereof; but we now speak of the prayer, wherewith Christ obtained it, and of the trial, wherein both head and members were to be conformed, and consummate with affliction, and that for the time was as sharp, as the fruit thereof in the end would be sweet; that not only Christ was first to 
g Luke. 24.  suffer those things, (which the Scriptures mention) and so to enter into his glory, but 
h 2. Timoth. 3.  as many, as will live godly in Christ jesus, shall suffer persecution. For this is the judgement of God beginning at his own house, and even at his own Son, 
i Acts. 14.  We must through many afflictions enter into the kingdom of God. In speaking against these things you show as much judgement, as you do in the rest of your conceits, which have your bare word for their best warrant, and your unlearned humour for their chiefest help.  

k Defenc. pag. 94. li.  Thirdly, if you mean (that God sat in judgement) here against the sins of the elect, Christ knew the eternal and sure decree of God, which had turned the cup of vengeance already from them upon himself, as being their Surety: so that this cometh to our assertion.] Christ knew, that the second person in Trinity by whom his manhood was now assumed, had before all worlds consented to bear the burden or punishment of our sins in his Body, and by himself to make the purgation of them, and that the Father, Son, and holy Ghost had eternally decreed this to be the mean and 〈◊〉 of man's Redemption; but as for the Cup of vengeance to be turned on 〈◊〉, if thereby you intended the vengeance due to our sins, and inflicted 
Christ and his members must 〈◊〉 of one and the same Cup.  on the damned, which is your design throughout your Defence, than neither had God made any such decree, neither did Christ know any such conversion of the Cup from us upon himself: he rather knew the contrary. To james and john the Sons of Zebedee, that asked to sit, the one at his right hand, the other at his left, he answered; 
l Mark. 10.  Can ye drink of the Cup that I shall drink of? and they saying, they could, he replied; Ye shall drink indeed of the cup, that I shall drink of. If Christ had the Cup of vengeance common to him with the desperate and damned, than james and john, and consequently all his Disciples and members drank of the same Cup, for they all drank of his cup. And Paul miss much of his reckoning, when he said; 
m Phil. 3.  I counted all things loss, and do judge them to be dung, that I may know the fellowship of Christ's afflictions, and be made conformable to his death. Can you persuade any man of common sense, that Paul was so desirous to suffer the death of the Soul, and the pains of the damned, that he judged all things vile in comparison thereof? for so he was affected to the fellowship of Christ's sufferings, which was an other manner of Cup, than you conceive, or else Paul erred very grossly in his Account.  

n Defenc. pag. 94. li. 16.  Touching the Reprobates do you think, that Christ here so vehemently wished them better, whom he knew God hated: or that for pity of them he fell into this Agony and sorrowful prayers? Such a jester besides yourself, a man shall hardly jump with all. Of Christ's Agony in the Garden as there were sundry parts, so there were sundry causes. You take every particular by the Pole, and examine that, as if it were offered to be the sole and entire cause of the whole Agony. But leave this wide wandering, and little understanding, and try whether Christ were not so much affected to his own Nation, that he greatly sorrowed for their rejection. [
o Ibid. li. 19  Christ saith a little before he would not so much as pray for them.] He would not pray to cross God's Counsel towards the whole Nation, but only for such as should believe in him: yet he pitied them, and prayed pardon even for those, that put him to death: 
p Luke. 23.  Father forgive them, for they know not what to do.  

q Defence pag 94. li. 20.  It is certain Christ rather would have greatly rejoiced to see the due execution of Gods most holy and deserved justice, which is a special part of his high glory.] Your certainties are like Spider's webs, every touch will tear them. If Christ of your certain knowledge would have so greatly rejoiced to see the destruction of the jews, how came it to pass, that beholding jerusalem he wept for it? If the remembrance of their desolation moved him to tears, would the present sight of their destruction have bred in him such great joy, as you talk of? Have you so utterly forgotten, what he saith of himself at this time of his appearance in his humility? 
r john. 12.  I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. There is a time when he shall come to judge the quick and the dead; but now 
s john 3.  God sent not his Son to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 
t Ela. 42.  A bruised Reed (saith the Prophet) shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench. So far was he at this time from doing or delighting in any violence, how certain soever you make yourself of his joyfulness to see destruction executed on that Nation. The words of David that 
u Psal. 58.  the Righteous shall retoyce when he seeth the vengeance, licence no man to desire vengeance, but to expect God's time, whose will we pray may be done; and concern those enemies only, that with impl●…cable malice seek the utter ruin of the godly. In which case the deliverance of the faithful being joined with vengeance on the wicked, God will have his me eyes towards us magnified, though it be mixed with the destruction of the wicked. Otherwise Christ hath commanded us to 
x Matth. 5.  love our enemies, to bless them which curse us, to pray for them, which persecute us, so that we may be the children of our Father which is in heaven. But you have found a Fox, or a fern broke, because it was said, Let this Cup pass from me, and not from them. What if I answer you with jerom? Christ said not, 
y 〈◊〉. in Mat Cap. 26.  Let the cup pass from me, but 〈◊〉 this cup pass, that is, of the people of the Jews, which can have no excuse of ignor●…nce, if they killme, since they have the Law and the Prophets, which daily feretell of me. This Christ requesteth not, as fearing to suffer, but in 〈◊〉 towards the former People, that he might not drink the 〈◊〉 by them. And with Ambrose? 
z 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 10 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 22 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  Therefore Christ said, take this cup from me: not because the Son of God seared death, but for that he would not have them though evil to 〈◊〉; 〈◊〉 his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 poe pernicious (to them,) which should be healthful to all. And with 〈◊〉? 
a 〈◊〉. ●…n 〈◊〉. tract. 35.  For those then, whom he would not have perish by his Passion, he said; Father, if it be possible let this cup pass from me, that both the world might be saved, and the 〈◊〉 not perish in his Passion. And with 
b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ca 〈◊〉.  Bede who exactly followeth jeroms words? You will reply, there is no truth in them; but the more you use such answers, the more pride and less wit you show, to think that all men 〈◊〉 absurd besides yourself, when you can seant speak one word touching your new found faith, without a sensible absurdity.  

c Defence pag. 94. li. 31.  Your next supposed cause, 〈◊〉 towards men containeth three 〈◊〉 causes here: First, for the 〈◊〉 of the jews: Secondly for the dispersion of his Church: Thirdly, his zealous grief generally for the sins of the world. All these 〈◊〉 always in Christ, and 
The second cause 〈◊〉 to Christ's agonte.  caused no 〈◊〉 always heaviness in him: yet no more than a godly & heavenly mind could and would 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 digest and bear. It is well that of your 〈◊〉 at last you see these six causes may be revoked and referred to the two gene〈◊〉 roots, whence I said Christ's agony might proceed; and so no reason, but a mere desire to 〈◊〉, did lead you to demonstrate my disagreements by one, two, 〈◊〉 six; which upon your better advise yourself can reconciie within the space of a lease. For as these three are contained in Christ's compassion towards men, or rather did proceed from the astection of his love to man so the rest are as easily reduced to Christ's submission yeld●…d in pictie unto God, or to the same profession of charity towards man, or to both. Touching the e three, you grant, they were always in Christ ●…nd caused no doubt always an hea●…ines in him; but moderate, such as a godly mind might cheerfully digest. First then, how come you so suddenly to fling of your former Resolution made not fifteen lines before, that certainly Christ would have greatly 〈◊〉 to see the execution of God's deserved justice on the jews? would Christ both certainly and greatly have rejoiced to see the destruction of that people and city, and yet the foresight thereof caused no doubt always heaviness in him? These are not your contrarieties, but concordance; wherein you rightly agree with yourself, that never usein your assertions to make one piece agree with an other. How much Christ might grieve at those things, we shall presently examine; but that he grieved more at this time now in the garden for these respects, then at any other time before, you do not grant, because you see no reason for it. Of Christ's affections neither I can yield nor you may ask the reason; they were voluntary, and rose within him, when his will gave place unto them. He saw jerusalem often, and knew of her desolation from the beginning. Why wept he then but once over her? why did he not the like for other Cities, wherein the jews dwelled, can you tell? he was often tempted by the Pharisees, and still saw the hardness of their hearts. Why did he then but once (that the Scripture reporteth) behold them with 
d Mar. 3.  anger and grief for their obstinacy? his passion he always remembered, and often foretold; why then was he troubled with the thought thereof, but once that we read? Athanasius giveth this answer. 
e Athanasius de incarnate. Christi.  Now is my soul troubled, this now was, when he himself would. Damascene 
f 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. ca 23.  insisteth on the same words, and maketh the rule general, that 
g 〈◊〉 li. 3. ca 20.  〈◊〉 (affections and infirmities) in Christ never prevented his will, because nothing in him was forced, but all voluntary. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, etc. he hungrea, when he would; he 〈◊〉 when he would; he feared when hewould; and died when he would. Saint Austen observeth the same. 
h 〈◊〉. in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 49.  Turbaris tu nolens, Turbatus est Christus, quia 〈◊〉. Thou art troubled against thy will; Christ was troubled, because he would. He hungered, it is true, but because he would; he slept, it is true, but because he would; he sorrowed, it is true, but because he would; he died, it is true, but because he would. In illius potestate erat sic vel sic 〈◊〉, velnen affici. it was in his power to be so or so affected, or not affected. The reason which he giveth, is sound; and the Scripture, on which he buildeth, is plain. 
i Ibidem.  Qui●… enim 〈◊〉 posset nisi 〈◊〉 ipse turbare; ubi summa potestas est, secundum volunt●…tis 〈◊〉 turbatur 〈◊〉. Who could trouble him besides himself? where 〈◊〉 power is, there 〈◊〉 is troubled according to the 〈◊〉 of the will. And so the Scripture noteth. 
k john 11.  he groaned in spirit, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and troubled (or affected) himself.  
If this Rule be true, which hath the grounds of faith, and the words or the holy Ghost for a foundation, than your assertion is false, and against the faith, that tkese were always in Christ, and always caused an he 〈◊〉 in him. For you imply a continual necessity of sorrow and grief in the Soul of Christ, where the Scriptures and Fathers teach us, that nothing could 〈◊〉 grief or sorrow on him, but when he himself would. And that jesus sometimes reicyced, and 
l Luc. 10. v. 21.  exulted in Spirit, giving thanks to his Father for hiding (the mysteries of his kingdom) from the wise and prudent, and revealing them to seely ones, the 〈◊〉 is evident. You therefore, as your manner is, grant that which is false, and deny that which is true. For what if Christ often, though not always, sorrowed for these three aforesaid, is that any proof, that 〈◊〉 Passion approaching, where he saw 〈◊〉 Jews should call for the vengeance of his blood to be on them, and their children; and was now by most earnest & ardent prayer to obtain remission of sins, direction of his spirit, and protection from Satan for his whole Church, (the Time and place now 〈◊〉 requiring it,) he should not with greater sorrow behold the one, and with more 〈◊〉 zeal entreat the other? But 
m Desenc. pa. 94. li. 37.  I strangely deceive myself you say, if I think that any or all of these did so far exceed in him, as to procure his most dreadful and bloody Agony. When I hear you speak some truth, or see you understand any thing right, I will more regard your word, than now I do. That these things might be the causes thereof, shall plainly appear to the sober and advised Reader, when we come to the discussing of them; Howbeit I do not say, that every one of these six was the whole cause of his Agony; as you childishly carp; or that these six were the sole causes of his Agony; but these respects were such, as might most exceedingly grieve, and most inwardly affect the Soul of Christ, making now way by prayer to procure the course of man's Redemption to be actually and effectually decreed and pronounced at his instance; which he would after perfect with patience. Neither are there greater works in man's redemption, than these that were now in hand, with which if you think it not likely, nor possible, the Soul of our Saviour should be mightily affected, your erroneous Imagination is far stranger than my position of piety and possibility. for as if you ask me, what the Angel that came from heaven, said to Christ in the Garden, I must openly profess, I take upon me no such knowledge, but leave God's secrets to himself and his Son; so what occasions besides these might at that instant affect the Soul of Christ, I dare not determine, though you be so desperate, that you nothing doubt, Christ then felt in Soul from the immediate hand of God the self same pains, which the damned do in hell; Notwithstanding the Scriptures insinuate no such suspicion, much less avouch any such Doctrine for man's redemption.  

n Defence pag. 95 li. 1.  For the Rejection of the jews what reason bring you. Christ wept over their City: ergo, now at his Passion he was driven into his dreadful Agony for this cause.] You must make your own match, or else you will quickly mar all. Where I professed it impossible certainly to conclude the true cause of Christ's Agony, your wisdom taketh a part of my words, and clappeth on a Conclusion to them of your own stamping, and then you say the Argument is nought: and so nimble you be at nothing, that where I repeat six causes, that might be concurrent therein, you will have me infer, that every one of them was the whole and sole cause thereof. But your mastership is to warm to be wise, and to self-willed to be sound, you do not so much as see, or care, why I took this in for one of the causes, that might meet in this Agony. The reverent 
o Sermo. pag. 19 li. 4.  regard I had to the judgements of Ambrose, jerom, Augustine, and Bede, who observed this before me as one of the causes, that might be of Christ's sorrow in the Garden, made me number this amongst the rest, howsoever you spurn them away like foote-bals, and think with a wild gallop to win the Goal. But soft Sir, first their opinions lie in your way, which wise men will respect before your empty words, and lazy likelihoods, that have no salt in them, besides the sharpness of your humour. Secondly, my reasons to my purpose are available enough, though you mishap them with a senseless error of your own, as if every of these six were the single and sole cause of this agony. There can no one particular cause be assigned of Christ's fear, sorrow, and zeal in the Garden; but since himself is a witness, that his Soul was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on every side pressed with sorrow, my proofs which you cannot avoid, infer, that amongst others this might be one cause of his sorrow. And so much those Fathers profess, as I have formerly showed; and you cannot decline them but with impudent flirting at them, that 
p Defenc. pag. 95. li. 15.  this verily cannot stand with any reason. But of our Reasons let the Reader judge. Christ wept at the sight of jerusalem, when he remembered her desolation by the hands of the Romans. What grief then was it to him in all reason, to foresee the rejection of that people from the savour of God by their rash and wicked desire to have his blood on them and their children, at the time of his arraignment before Pilate? If Moses and Paul so vehemently 〈◊〉 at the fall of their brethren according to the flesh, that for their sakes the one wished to be wiped out of the Book of God, the other most sacredly protested the great heaviness and continual anguish, that he felt in hart for them; how much more than did it grieve the Saviour of the world, who far exceeded both the other in compassion and mercy, to see himself, that came to bless them, and save them, to be the ruin and stone of offence, that should stumble them, and their children, striking them with perpetual blindness, and bruising them with everlasting perdition, through their unbelief. To this what answer you?  

q Defenc. pag. 95. li. 28.  It proveth that Christ surely had very great pity and commiseration of them, but nothing else in the world.] I professed to prove no more. Why then should not this be one of the causes, that moved Christ to sorrow in the Garden, where he confes●…ed his Soul was on every side heavy? 
r Ibid. li. 30.  Christ might have far greater pity of them, than Moses or Paul had, and yet he was able to carry his affection far more patiently and quietly than they were able.] Doth any man besides you say, that Christ was impatient in his Agony, but that as he was fully able to restrain all violence and vehemence of affection in himself, when he would; so was he likewise able to show the inward touch and motion of mercy towards that people, by what signs he would, and by far greater than Moses and Paul were able, and yet without all distemper or impatience, as you interpret his Agony to be. 
s Ibid. li. 34.  Also Christ knew exactly God's counsel and purpose for their rejection, which those holy men were not so particularly sure of. Wherefore Christ might better stay the vehemency and breaking out of this affection, which in such a case must needs tend against the known will of God.] Moses and Paul were sure enough of that, which they were sorry for, though the evidence of their knowledge was not comparable to Christ's in any thing. And I pray you what letteth, but the clearer Christ's knowledge was of the horrible vengeance of God, that should light on the jews for their wicked despising and murdering of him, the greater might his sorrow be for them, so long as he sorrowed not, that God would be righteous, but that they would be both impious in the fact, and incredulous in the Gospel of repentance, and so provoke the justice of God to that extreme revenge. Neither is that any way to impugn Gods known will, to be sorry that men will be so mad, as to heap up vengeance on their own heads: God rather alloweth that affection in us here on earth, where we are not compassed or confirmed with glory, as our Saviour then was not with his, that as 
t Lament. 3.  he doth not punish with his hart (or willingly,) so we should not wish, or before hand rejoice at the destruction of our enemies, whom we should love, and for whom we should pray, even when they persecute us, as he taught us by his own example in praying, 
u Luke. 22.  Father forgive them, they know not what they do; and inspired Steven with the same mind to say at the time, when they stoned him, 
x Acts. 7.  Lord lay not this sin to their charge. So that your exceptions are rather prejudicial to your own positions, then to mine, which are no way weakened with these pretences, but rather strengthened.  

y Defence pag. 95. li. 16.  Christ's express compassion towards the jews (Luk. 19 Matth. 24.) a little before he prepared him to his passion, plainly showeth that now in the Garden and so still forward, he gave himself wholly to other thoughts and matters, namely such as concerned his great work in hand.] Out of your learning you allow Christ's compassion towards the walls and buildings of the temple, and the stones of the city, for he showeth in both places, which you cite, that a 
z Matth. 24. 2.  
a Luc. 19 44.  stone shall not be left upon a stone, either in the 
z Matth. 24. 2.  Temple or 
a Luc. 19 44.  City, which concerned the jews temporal state and safety; but touching the rejection of that whole nation for these fifteen hundred years (as we find to this day) from 
Christ sorrowed that his death should be the ruin of the jews.  the knowledge and grace of God, whereby their souls might be saved, which Christ most clearly foresaw would befall them for their putting him to death so barbarously, tumultuously, and contemptuously, that in the higth of your skill, you count not a matter worthy Christ's cogitation or compassion. Such chips you hue to help up the building of your new made hell, that the Saviour of the world upon your word must be mindful of the walls and houses in which the jews dwelled, and forgetful of their Salvation, of whom, and for whom he was borne, and to whom he was first sent, if they would have received him: as if the son of God knew not how to proportion his sorrow for them according to the dangers, that were imminent over them. But in all wise men's eyes, if he so much pitied the ruin of their city and desolation of their Land, that he wept for it, what sorrow and grief shall we think he inwardly took to see the perpetual destruction of so many thousands, and all their posterities so many hundred years through their own madness in thirsting for his blood? and why should this be excluded from the great work of man's Redemption, which he had then in hand, when he was in his agony, since not only the future pains were foreseen by him, but all things incident and consequent were plainly to him foreknown; Amongst which was the utter abandoning of God's former people for their infidelity to the doctrine, and for their cruelty to the person of their and our Lord and Saviour.  

b Defenc. pag. 95. li. 7.  A little before when he thoroughly intended and expressed his affection touching that matter, yet thereby he fell into no such agony, but only wept and mourned for them.] Christ knew his times and places for all his affections and actions far better than such a guest, as you are, could direct him. His affections before men he did moderate with all sobriety and gravity, they never saw in his face nor heard from his mouth an undecent gesture or speech. For his vehement and most fervent affections, (which yet proceeded from no kind of impatience nor distemper of mind, as you imagine, but from the fire and flame of his most sacred humility, and zeal to God, and love and piety to man) he chose the time nearest his passion, and the place secret not only from others, but even, from his own Disciples. Had the people openly seen him in these fears prayers and sweats they would have judged him either 
c Mar. 3. v. 21.  mad, or 
d john 7.  possessed with a devil, as they did, when no signs of a troubled mind appeared. Christ therefore in his heavenly wisdom would have no witnesses of his most fervent affections, as it seemeth by the course of the Scriptures, but God and his elect Angels, in somuch that he willed the rest of his disciples to sit where he appointed them, and took Peter, james, and john, that had seen his glory in the mountain, and went on-ward with them to his purposed place, but left them a stones cast of, when he went to his passionate prayers: where for the darkness of the night they could distinguish nothing; besides their incredible heaviness to sleep whiles their master was in his greatest agony, which proveth they neither heard, nor saw what befell him. How childishly then do you reason; Christ, when he spoke of the destruction of the city, fell not into an agony before the people: therefore the grief of their rejection could be no part of the sorrow, which he assumed in the Garden. As this is most frivolous, so the rest is most captious. For what if his sorrow for the jews were not the cause of his bloody sweat; or of that part of his piaier, Father if it be possible, let this cup pass from me? Is that a reason, this was not respected by Christ at that time, because he had 
The different affections in Christ's agony had different causes.  divers other assaults and seas of sorrow, touching himself, and others, as well as touching the jews? what hobbling is this, to ask one entire cause for so many different affections and actions, as Christ showed in his agony; where the Scriptures note not only fear and sorrow on every side, but extreme humility, and ardent zeal with such fervency of spirit in prayer, that the sweat broke from him like drops of blood? who, that sought truth, or read but the words of the Evangelists, would thus cavil with matters of such moment? Christ was in these passions and prayers by the space of an hour (for so himself said to Peter, 
f Matth. 26.  What could ye not watch with me one hour and he prayed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more intentively or more fervently after he was strengthened by an Angel, than before. Shall we think he said nothing all that while in his prayers, but only these words O my father if it be possible, let this cup pass from me? This he repeated thrice, as the Scripture observeth, but his prayers were longer, and extended to other things, except we think Christ was an hour repeating three lines. Besides the Scriptures note a change in his prayers. For after the Angel from heaven appeared to him, and strengthened him, 
f Luc. 22.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, then entering into an agony, he prayed more earnestly, than before, so that his sweat trickled down to the ground like drops of blood. You say there must be one entire cause of all these passions. So you say, but which way do you, or can you go about to prove it, save by the liquor of your own lips, which is weaker than water to glue these things together.  

g Defenc. pag. 95 li. 21.  The work of Christ at this time wrought by him is by a proper and peculiar name justly called his passion, not his compassion. Which I would have you to note.] A man may soon note the worthiness of your arguments, that when neither by truth nor reason you can prevail you fall to collude with the names of passion and compassion. As if Christ's passion did not sometimes import the whole history of his death and sufferings, wherein are confessions, reprehensions, predictions, prayers and promises of Christ, as well as pains endured. And did it note no more but pains, are not the passions and affections of fear and sorrow, as painful many times to the soul, as the stripes and wounds of the body? Such trifles you take for triple engines, when your conceits must be concluded; all other men's arguments have no shape of any reason with you; so deeply you are in love with yourself and your own inventions, be they never so ill-favoured or misshapen.  

h Defenc. pag. 96. li. 2.  Lastly those holymen (it seemeth) having their thoughts wholly defixed on their vehement pity towards the jews, earnestly and constantly wished that the cup of God's eternal wrath might come upon themselves, that the jews who deserved it, might scape. But Christ in his passion contrariwise desired that cup, which he tasted to be to bitter, and to violent for him, might pass away from himself.] If your suppositions of Moses and Paul were granted you, which yet are no way true, they make the stronger against you, though you dissemble the sight thereof. For if pity towards the jews so far prevailed with those two being the servants of Christ, that they yielded their souls to eternal torments, as you imagine, to save their Brethren; how great reason then hath it, that the Messias himself, in whom was the fullness of all mercy, might be moved with such inward compassion for that whole nation, that he most earnestly and frequently prayed in the Garden to have this cup (that is, this manner of death, whereby the jews should perish) to pass from him, as Origen, jerom, Ambrose and Bede expound those words? and though your hellish humour be so hot, and so haughty, that you pronounce of every thing, there is no semblance of reason in this; yet the considerate Reader will find in those men's judgements, whom I have named and produced, more sap and pith then in your hell pains. For seeing the affection of mercy hath been so mighty in men, that they were more then perplexed with this grief, what bring you but babbling to show that Christ might not fervently pray, if so it pleased God, not to make his death the mean of their utter overthrow; and when he saw their pertinacy and infidelity to be such, that his prayer did not prevail for them, to be troubled and agonized in mind for their woeful and wilful destruction? Christ prayed for himself, not for them.] But these learned Fathers tell you, he prayed not against his own death simply, but respecting them, by whose hands it should come, and whose eternal ruin it should be. Your cup of hell pains, which you dream Christ then tasted to be too bitter and too violent for him, is a false and fond conceit of yours, having neither truth, sense, nor likelihood in it, and yet forsooth both Scriptures and fathers must give place to your devices, and semblances. This I speak, if your assertion of Moses and Paul were admitted; howbeit indeed you are not able to prove one word of all that you affirm in this case. You take certain very obscure and much questioned words of Moses and Paul for your groundwork, and at your pleasure without all proof you build thereon a whole world of falsehood and confusion. Out of which, and the like dark and doubtful places because the most of your hellish doctrine is drawn, I think it needful to let the Reader see, how far and what those words infer, which you so much strive to abuse.  
When the children of Israel had made them a Calf of gold, and feasted and played 
Moses prayer for the people examined.  before it, as the God that brought them out of Egypt, the Lord was wroth and said to Moses; 
i Deuter. 9 v. 13.  I have seen this people, and behold it is a stiff-necked people; 
k 14.  let me alone, that I may destroy them, and put out their name from under heaven, and I will make of thee a mighty nation, and greater than they be. For this sin, when Moses prayed that the whole nation might not be destroyed, he said to God; 
l Exod. 32. v. 31.  This people hath sinned a great sin. 
m 32.  And now if thou wilt take away their sin: and if not, wipe me out of the Book which thou hast written. To whom God answered; 
n Verse 33.  Whosoever hath sinned against me, I will put him out of my book. The first thing here to be considered is, what God threatened to the people, and promised to Moses; the next, what Moses did, or could desire for them. God did not threaten presently to execute damnation on all the people, there were many thousand children amongst them, that knew not what idolatry meant, but he would temporally destroy that whole nation, and raise Moses to a greater number than they were. Neither may we think, that God then would make a new number of predestinate, and assure the kingdom of heaven to all Moses offspring without rejecting of any one of them, but that he would give the land of Canaan, whereof he spoke to their fathers, unto Moses and his posterity. Against this, Moses pleadeth two things unto God; HIS GLORY, lest the Egyptians should blaspheme, and say, 
o Exod. 32. v. 12.  he brought them out in malice to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth: and HIS PROMISE, when he 
p Vers. 13.  swore by himself to Abraham, Isaac and jacob, to multiply their seed as the stars of heaven, and to give them all the land (of Canaan) to inherit for ever. So that Moses entreateth God to regard his own glory and truth, and not in that sort to revenge the people's sins, by rooting them and their seed from the earth. And touching Gods offer unto him, he so far preferred his care of God's glory and mercy towards the Israelites, before his own dignity safety, and posterity, that he desired God, if the people were destroyed from the earth, to raze out him also and his posterity, that he might not see the ruin of his nation, and hear the reproach of God's name. Moses doth not meddle in this place with God's eternal and secret predestination, which he knew was immutable, and whereof the Egyptians neither had, neither could have any knowledge; and therefore so to conceive Moses words, as if God should everlastingly damn him, if he presently damned the people, is a construction full of presumption and impiety. Moses did not say, So thou wilt spare them, condemn me; but if thou wilt not forbear them, destroy me (and mine) also. Wherein you may make Moses so mad, (which God forbid) that he would go to the devil for company; but you can not show by his words, that he desired his everlasting damnation might be their eternal salvation. Moses was too well learned in God's mysteries, to think that he could be the Saviour of that people, or that his soul was a meet price for their redemption; he refuseth all his personal honour, which was great in God's sight, his present life, and future hope for all his offspring in the land of Promise, rather than he would see the destruction of that whole multitude committed to his charge. This I take to be the true meaning of Moses words, and the book there, of which he speaketh, to be God's 〈◊〉 decree, to have him (during their abode in the desert) to be the leader and 〈◊〉 of his people, and his seed after him to inherit with the rest of the Israelites.  
The words of Paul, 
q Rom. 9 v. 3.  I did (or could) wish myself separated from Christ for my brethren according to the flesh, somewhat differ from the words of Moses, and may receive 
Paul's wish for the jews considered.  even by Grammar a double sense; the first actual and absolute, the second potential or conditional. It is evident to every man but meanly acquainted with the Greek tongue, that the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the praeterimperfect tense Indicative, and regularly signifieth, I did wish, in times past; and since neither 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is added to it, nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before or after it in the same sentence, there is no necessity to make it Potential, as if he had said, I could, or would wish. Since then the words naturally serve the first sense, I did wish myself 〈◊〉 from Christ for my brethren the jews, and many learned and ancient Interpreters and Expositors have so rendered both the words and the meaning of the Apostle in that place; I do not see what 〈◊〉 argument can thence be framed 
The time was when he so wished.  to support any of those more than strange conceits, which here you would establish. The 〈◊〉 translation saith; 
r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Wishing I was. The Commentaries under jeroms name; 
s 〈◊〉. i ca 9 ad R●…m.  Optabam aliquando, cum 〈◊〉 Christum, non modo 〈◊〉. I did ●…o wish, when I persecuted Christ, I would not now so 〈◊〉. So Ambrose; 
t 〈◊〉. os. in 〈◊〉 9 〈◊〉 Rom.  Optabam inq●…it, non opto. I did wish it, saith Paul, I do not presently wish. So Primasius; 
u 〈◊〉 9 ad R●…m.  Optabam 〈◊〉 non nunc optarem. I did wish it sometimes, I would not now wish it. And Sedulius; 
u 〈◊〉 9 ad R●…m.  Optabam, inquit, non opto. I did, I do not wish it. Against this exposition can nothing be brought, that is not easily answered. Paul taketh Christ and the Holy Ghost as witnesses to his own conscience, that his heaviness was great, and the grief of his heart continual for his brethren the jews, in regard of the good which he wished them in Christ, and his desire to have them saved. And how far this zeal and affection for his people did carry him before to run headlong against Christ, and to do his uttermost to be a castaway from Christ for their sakes, themselves did discern by his sharp and eager pursuit of Christ's Church. He therefore ever was, and yet is a zealous well-willer to his own Nation, though he were now called to be the Teacher of the Gentiles.  
Those that refer this speech to the time when Paul wrote to the Romans, must first have leave to supply the text with a Potential particle in Greek called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and 
If Paul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the time when he wrote, ●…is words w●…re conditional.  then to add certain conditions unto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which is if, & must be understood correspondent unto 〈◊〉 to make the difference betwixt the Indicative and Optative Moods. For when a man saith he could or would wish this or that, he meaneth, If there were not some stops to hinder his desire. And so the Apostles words, if they be, Potential, they import some necessary respects, that stayed him from actual 〈◊〉 so much. They then which would have the Apostle to speak Optatively; I could wish myself to be severed from Christ for my brethren; do understand; so as it were pleasing to God, possible for me, and profitable to them. For no man of any sense or judgement doth hence conclude as this Defender doth, that it was possible; Paul was too great a Divine to think, that God's eternal counsel and election could be changed for any man's private desires or wishes; but he declared, as they suppose, how willing he was to renounce all the honour, hope, and happiness, that Christ had called him unto, so it might be for God's glory, and their good that were his kinsmen after the flesh. What is meant by separation from Christ, and whether Paul wished an everlasting deprination of all bliss or no, the best Interpreters do not agree. Nicolaus Hemmingius a learned professor of true religion, commenting upon Paul's Epistles, saith: 
x Hemmingius in ca 9 ep. ad Rom.  What shall we say of this affection in Paul? Hoc 〈◊〉 teneamus principium, quòd nihil 〈◊〉 absurdi, nihil impij, nihil contra salutem animae suae, nihil contra dilectionem Christi, spiritu enim Christi agebatur Paulus. Hoc stabilito principio, necesse est hanc separationem a Christo non intelligendam esse de internâ separatione ae Christo & aeternâ; sed de externâ tantum & temporali, quâ 〈◊〉 perire in carne, ut saluentur alij in spiritu. Let us hold this for a main principle, that Paul wished no absurd, no wicked thing, nothing against the salvation of his own soul, nor against the love of Christ: for Paul was (in this) guided with the spirit of Christ. This foundation lying fast, we must necessarily understand this separa●…ion from Christ (which Paul wished) not of any internal or eternal separation from Christ, but only of an external and temporal, whereby he wisheth to perish in the flesh, that others might be saved in the spirit. This is another of jeroms Expositions in his questions to Algasia: 
y Hieron. ad Algasiam. quaest. 9  We shall find the same affection in Moses and Paul towards the flock committed unto them. A good shepherd layeth down his life for his sheep, which is all one with this (of Paul) I wished to be separate from Christ; and with that (of Moses) Wipe me out of the book which thou hast written. And withal see how great the Apostles love was to Christ, that he desired to die for Christ, and to perish alone, so all sorts of men might believe in him. Perire autem non in perpetuum sed imprasentiarum. Perish Paul would not ever lastingly, but for this present life. He would therefore perish in the flesh, that others might be saved in the spirit; and lose his own blood to preserve their souls. Haymo likewise; 
z Haymo in 9 ca ad Rom.  Hoc loquebatur de occisione corporis sui, cum nullo modo optaret mentis affectu separaria Christo. This (Paul) spoke of the kill of his body, when by no means he wished the affection of his mind to be severed from Christ.  
Photius and Oecumenius in their Greek Scholies have another interpretation, which 
a In Comment. lingu●… 〈◊〉. fol. 700.  Budeus a man of no small judgement in the Greek tongue doth follow: 
b Photius apud Oecumenium in 9 cap. epist. ad Rom.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Paul doth not say, he would be made a separate from Christ, that is, now to be divided from Christ, (that were most detestable) but (he could wish) to have been (still) a separate from Christ, that is, as yet to have continued an alien, and not to that present time to have cleaned unto Christ. In effect Paul saith, I would have wished mine own self not yet to have come to Christ, but to 
How the Grecians expound Paul's words.  this day to have remained separate from him, if this might have holpen your entrance and faith in Christ. This in effect Benedictus Aretius a learned Expositor of our time, doth embrace: Paul 
c Aretius' in 9 cap. epist. ad Romanos.  desireth himself for (his kinsmen) the jews to be anathema from Christ, that is, for a time to be a stranger from Christ, that in the mean while his nation might have place in Christ, and himself at last be saved (with them.) The words may likewise be taken for an imperfect speech, as though he had said; I could wish this, if it were lawful for me (salva pietate) by the rules of piety; I would do it for Christ's glory, who could not want means to restore me again from this (anathema or) curse.  
Chrysostoms' exposition best pleaseth Peter Martyr and Zanchius, as if Paul had been content for Christ's glory and the Salvation of the jews, not to have been severed from the love and favour of Christ, but if it were possible thereby to do them good, from the bliss and happiness, that Christ would bestow on him. Howbeit they both make it simply impossible, and that even to Paul's knowledge, that this should, or could be. 
d Peter Martyr in 9 cap. Epist. ad Romanos.  Neque mirari debemus Paulum hoc optasse, cum non posset fieri, (illum enim dubium non est ad praedestinatos pertinuisse) voluntas enim nostra saepe rapitur ad ea quae sieri non possunt. Neither ought we to marvel, (saith Peter Martyr) that Paul wished that which could not be: (for he no doubt was of the number of the Elect) since our will is often carried to things impossible. 
e 〈◊〉 de tribus 〈◊〉. li. 5. cap. 3. 〈◊〉. 2.  In the word Anathema, (separated from Christ) I consider (saith Zanchius) two very diverse and distinct things, towitte, separation from the love (and favour) of Christ, and privation from the fruit of Christ's love, which fruit is blessedness itself, or a blessed and everlasting life in heaven with Christ. That Paul wished to be severed from Christ, meaning, from the love and favour of Christ, and to become execrable unto Christ for the safety of his brethren, Dari nullo modo potest, aut debet, this in no wise may, or aught to be granted. For this is repugnant to that, which he said before in the end of the eight Chapter, yea to the Principal cause, which led him to his desire. The ground whereof was not so much his affection to his brethren, as his love chiefly to Christ. And comparing Moses words and wish with Paul's, he saith. 
f Ibidem.  I do not doubt, but as Paul did no way desire to be severed from Christ, that is, from his communion and favour: so Moses by no means did ask, that God would rather strike him out of the number of his friends, then destroy the people. Neque enim hoc potuit salva pietate expetere, aut petere, for neither could he desire, nor ask this with any piety; but as Paul wished himself alone rather, if it were possible, to be depriu●…d of eternal happiness, than all the Israelites to be rejected from grace, and thereby the name of Christ and glory of God to be endangered by blasphemous minds and mouths. 
g Ibidem.  Neither is it any impediment, which is opposed touching the immutability of God's election and his justice, against which Moses seemeth to tend, when he desireth that God would destroy him being an Innocent, and ordained to salvation. For Moses Prayer is to be understood with this Condition, if it be possible, and yet he knew, it was not possible.  
There is a fifth Exposition of this place, which thinketh that Paul led with a fervent 
This exposition may not simply be received.  love and zeal to have the jews partakers of Christ, did not remember or respect either the Counsel or justice of God to be immutable, which yet are, but broke forth into a vehement affection, as desiring to exchange his eternal damnation for their Salvation. These leave out all manner of Conditions, not because there were not many, and must be many, before the wish can be religious and pleasing to God, but for that the Apostle wholly defixed on his care for the jews, did not in that Passion consider the rest. But by their leaves, that are the leaders to this exposition, well this may be conceived of some short and sudden motion rising from man's infirmity; but this can never be imagined of the Apostle advisedly and judicially writing to the Romans, and weighing all his words with the wisdom of God's spirit, which if they take from the Apostle in that part of this Epistle, where he calleth Christ and the holy Ghost to witness, that he speaketh the truth, I see not why they may not derogate all Authority from the rest of his writings, when after so great deliberation, and vehement protestation they make him forget the chiefest grounds of Christian Religion earnestly urged by himself in the self same Epistle, and even in the next words before, written in the later end of the eight Chapter. It is therefore a dangerous position to say, the Apostle was amazed or astonished in his writings, or so carried away with his affections, that he knew not what he wrote in those Scriptures, which are Canonical. For it openeth a gap to all impieties and heresies, to think that Paul led with Christ's spirit, did not remember nor respect, that God's eternal election could not be changed, nor the chosen vessels of Christ be everlastingly condemned for the love and zeal, which they bore to Christ, nor any man or Angel admitted to be the Redeemer and deliverer of the Reprobate from the just and deserved wrath of God provided for them. All which pestilent errors are consequent to this supposition, that the Apostles speech was absolutely without condition; and must be granted to be possible, before his desire or wish could simply take place. It is therefore resolved even by them who first devised this exposition, that Paul's wish in this place was wholly impossible, as well in respect of God, who would not change his eternal counsels and decrees; as of the Apostle, who being a chosen vessel could not perish; and likewise of the jews, whose deserved destruction so often denounced by our Saviour, as where he said, 
h Matth. 21.  The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and to jerusalem, 
i Luke 19  They shall not leave in thee a stone upon a stone, because thou knewest not the day of thy visitation, and many such threats; could not be averted. Only this Defender to show his discretion, out of these dark places, which admit many senses, collecteth that to be possible; which by the verdict of the holy Scriptures and of all Interpreters new and old is avouched to be simply impossible; and thence he maketh his notable observations, which indeed are nothing else but gross and palpable errors.  

k Defenc. pag. 96. li. 25.  From thence I observe four notable points. First, That if God omnipotent, and only sovereign Lord will, he may inflict damnation and the pains of hell upon mere men, not for themselves, but for others, nor for their own sins, but for the imputed sins of other men: much rather than might he do this to Christ, whom God sent indeed and ordained for that purpose. Flatly contrary to your Assertion.] To make your Observation 
Note.  the nearer to the pattern, which you follow, you must say, that God, if he will, may inflict eternal damnation (for temporal damnation to hell the Scripture knoweth none,) on his elect, (so were Moses and Paul;) for their love to Christ and their 
Four notable errors falsely grounded on the facts of Moses & Paul whereof 〈◊〉 the first.  brethren, for that was the cause of their wish. And then you have made a worthy Corollary, that indeed contrarieth my Assertion, and not mine only, but also the express words of the holy Ghost, the main grounds of the Christian Faith, and the resolution of all writers first and last, that have spoken of these places. To Moses Petition God's answer was, that he would not wipe an Innocent out of his book, but, 
l Exod. 32. verse 33.  Whosoever hath sinned against me, said God, I will put him out of my book. So that God himself did not only refuse Moses Prayer in that part, but declared it to be repugnant to his justice to condemn the guiltless with the guilty. The Apostle, the next words before these, by which you would make it possible that he might perish for others, professed; that 
m Rom. 8. v. 38.  neither death, nor life, nor Angels, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature was able to separate him from the love of God in Christ. And therefore generally demandeth, 
n Ibid. v. 35.  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? No creature is able, as he exactly avoucheth; and as for the Creator, 
o Verse. 33.  It is God that justifieth, (and therefore cannot be contrary to himself) 
p Verse. 34.  who shall condemn, where God in Christ doth acquit? [God you think may change his mind.] His eternal counsel decreed, revealed, and assured in Christ, God neither will correct, because he is wise, and before all worlds foresaw all that might move him to the contrary, neither can alter, because he is truth, and so can neither repent, nor change, as men do. The 
q Rom. 11.  Gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 
r 2. Tim. 2.  The foundation of God standeth sure, and hath this seal, the Lord knoweth who are his. 
s James. 1.  With him is no varying nor turning; And therefore our Saviour excepteth it as a thing not possible, that the elect should perish, when he saith; that false Prophets and great wonders in the later days should deceive, 
t Matth. 24.  If that were possible, the very Elect.  
By his power, you will say, God may do it, though he will not.] God's power was most absolute over all creatures to dispose them at his pleasure, before he determined and settled his will in Christ jesus, what to do with them; since which the holy Ghost teacheth us in plain words, it is impossible that God should lie, having made his promise to all his elect in Christ, and bound it with an Oath; not because he is become weaker than he was, but because he hath fastened his counsel, and revealed his truth in his Son, which he neither will, nor can change; not for want of power, but because of his truth, which is constant and immutable. 
u Heb. 6. v. 17. 18.  God willing (saith the Apostle) more abundantly to show the stableness of his counsel, bound himself with an oath, that by two immutable things (his promise and his oath) wherein it is impossible that God should lie, we might have strong comfort. So that howsoever you in your irreligious sophistry do say, God Omnipotent may inflict damnation upon men for others, If you mean upon his Elect, such as Moses and Paul were, whose examples and words you would seem to follow, you defend an open and exact Impossibility 
Note.  and heresy; speaking of damnation as the Scriptures do, and as you do in this place, where you say, those holy men (Moses and Paul) 
x Defenc. pag. 96. li. 5.  Earnestly and constantly wished Gods eternal wrath might come upon themselves, that the jews might scape it. Will you fly from the elect to the reprobate, and say that God may inflict damnation on them for other men's sins? Then are you clean gone from your examples of Moses and Paul, for they were no reprobates; and as far from all regard of God's justice, who eternally condemneth no man but for sin permanent and inherent, as in all the reprobate? For though God do save without merit for his mercy's sake, yet he condemneth no man eternally but for sin; and that either committed, or inherited. 
y Genes. 18.  Be it far from thee (saith Abraham to God) to slay the righteous with the wicked, and that the righteous should be even as the wicked, be it far from thee. Shall not the judge of the world do judgement?  
If it be simply impossible for Gods elect to perish, as our Saviour witnesseth, what heinous and horrrible falsity and impiety is it to say, The Son of God might be damned for sinners? And though you shift sides and say, 
z Defence pag. 96. li. 29.  Much rather than ma●… God do this to Christ, yet if you hold either to your former examples, whence you deduce this; or to your words in this very sentence, whence you draw this comparison, you must say, much rather than may God inflict damnation and his eternal wrath on Christ; which whether it may not rightly be called one of your hellish mysteries, I leave to all Christian men to judge. Such wicked observations when you make from so weak and false foundations, the Reader may soon see, what a notable Divine you are, and how likely to teach the truth, that pretend God's power against his will for the utter ruin os all Religion. Christ you say was ordained for that purpose.] 
Christ was not ordained to be damned for us.  What to be damned for others, or rather to bear the chastisement of our peace, that we might be healed with his stripes? The Prophet Esay saith he was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities. But you are the first supplanter of all patriarchs and Prophets, that say Christ was damned for our sins. You will come in with your temporal and substantial damnation, to which you subject the Soul of Christ: But Sir if you believe and teach the same truth, which the holy Ghost doth in the word of God; Why serve you so much from the words and grounds of the Sacred Scriptures? Why doth nothing please you in man's Redemption but hell and damnation inflicted on Christ, where you never learned any such lesson out of the Prophets or Apostles? And here your abused and unadvised examples, which you pretend for this purpose, import no such thing, but rather the clean contrary. For if it were not possible for Moses and Paul everlastingly to perish, because they were elected in Christ; how infinitely more impossible was it, that Christ should perish, in whom all are elected? And how Christ could perish but either by the dissolution of his person, or else by the joint condemnation of the second person in the most glorious Trinity to the fire of hell, I do not see; since these are such blasphemies, as hell never hatched the like.  

a Defenc. pag. 96. li. 31.  That which there you mention, is the ordinary and common rule: The Soul that sinneth it shall die: but in Christ this was extraordinary and singular that the just died for the vni●…st.] The words which I cited, are sufficient to reprove the first of your four notable observations as stark false. For there God sweareth by himself, that the 
b Ezech. 18.  Soul which sinneth that shall die: and consequently, the Son shall not bear the iniquity of the Father, neither shall the Father bear the iniquity of the Son; much less shall Moses and Paul bear the iniquity of the whole people, as you dream they might. And so much God's answer to Moses importeth; 
* Exod. 32.  whosoever hath sinned against me, I will wipe him, (and none other) out of my Book. As for Christ, since he was God as well as man, his person could not be tied to the Laws and Rules appointed for men, but what he himself would admit in his own person, to that by willing obedience he submitted himself; namely in his Manhood to die the death of the Cross for our sins according to the Scriptures, but not to be damned for us, nor to die the death of the Soul mentioned in the Scriptures; to whose Doctrine we must stand, and not to your devices, when we speak of God's judgements against sin, or of the purgation of our Souls. Wherefore that God himself by his own body would be the Price of our Redemption, was indeed a thing proper and singular to the person of Christ, wherein neither Moses nor Paul could be partakers with him, or examples of him: and therefore your fitting their prayers to his Passion, to make your hell pains thereby possible, is a thing far fet, & no way pertinent to this purpose.  

c Defenc. pag. 96. li 22.  I take it plain enough that these sinned not in their desire, and I suppose you take it so too, in that you allege them, and ground your Reasons of comparison upon them.] They sinned not, because their desires were conditional & submitted to God's good pleasure with reservation of their duties; otherwise if they thought that possible, which they desired, as you do, by their destruction, (who were the chosen vessels of mercy) to excuse the reprobate from damnation deserved by obstinacy and infidelity, they not only erred from the truth, but sinned in praying to have their wills take place before and against the will of God. But Moses in love to God's glory, and care for his charge, desired to be partaker of such temporal vengeance, as should befall the whole people of God; and Paul's words, that are potential, must be conditional; otherwise he needed not to have said, I could wish, but I do wish. The which because he doth not, but only show his desire, were it possible and pleasing to God, therefore he may be well excused from sin, though you condemn this in him, and that in Moses as a 
d Defenc. pag. 95. li. 33.  Distemper. Touching my alleging their grief for God's people, I do not use to venture on such desperate conclusions as you do. To my purpose it was sufficient, that they both were 
e Rom. 9  grieved at hart with great and continual heaviness for their Nation, which are the undoubted and unquestioned words of Paul, and causes of Moses Prayer: farther I did not go, but from that care and sorrow of theirs, I observed it both lawful and likely for the Messias, as he was man, to be inwardly and deeply troubled in his affection with the present and perpetual ruin of that people for his death by taking his blood upon them and their children. And this standeth sound and good, whatsoever become of your new and notable collections, which show your small judgement, and less truth in points of Divinity.  

f Defenc. pag. 96. li. 34.  Secondly, we see here that there may be possibly a death of the Soul, a curse, and separation from God, which is in itself neither siane, nor conjoined with sin necessarily: but merely a suffering of punishment from God for the sins of others imputed. Contrary to you also pag. 73. & 310. yea generally every where.] You remember belike the old rule, Ex impossibili sequitur quodlibet, from an impossibility supposed any thing will 
The second err●…r draw●…n from their example.  follow: and seeing yourself destitute of all proofs for your new Doctrine, you will needs make lotteries of impossibilities, and thence draw what you like best. For taking a plain impossibility for your main ground, you thereupon frame us four observations as impossible, as the first supposition. And this absurd wandering from all truth and faith you would have the Reader Note, as a special demonstration of your discretion and understanding in matters of Religion. Suppose as you do, that God through his omnipotent power may turn heaven into hell, and reverse all that he hath decreed and provided for the different rewards of piety and impiety, and you may soon prove what falsity you will by flying from God's counsel and truth to his power and might: But Christian religion teacheth not whatsoever is possible to God's power, but what is ordained by his will, and revealed by his word. Otherwise what heresy can you name touching Gods works in his creation or redemption of the world, that defendeth impossibilities to God's power, setting aside all respect of his will and truth? This therefore is the high way to uphold all falsities and impieties, to oppose God's power against his will and word, and to believe he hath done, whatsoever his almighty power is able to do.  
Concerning the death of the Soul, though here be no place to speak largely of it▪ it is double by the confession of all Divines, and even of the Scriptures themselves. For as the places are diverse, where men do abide, here and else where, in this life and the next; so the life, which the Soul enjoyeth, is proportioned to the place, where she continueth; God in his wisdom and goodness having so provided, that whiles she governeth the body here on earth, she should be partaker of him by the grace of his spirit, and hereafter in the kingdom of heaven she should have the full fruition of him by the manifest revelation and communion of his glory. Likewise the death of the Soul prevaileth in this life by sin, which is the natural depriving, or voluntary renouncing of all grace, and in the world to come by damnation, which is the just rejecting of all the wicked from any fellowship with God in his glory, and the fastening them to everlasting torments in hell fire. God's actions in either of which are most just and holy; for he withdraweth and denieth his grace, when it is refused; and excludeth them from all access to his blessedness, that here on earth despised both him and it, adjudging them to the just desert of their sins in everlasting flames: But neither of these can possibly take hold of man without sin committed, or inherited. And therefore your imagining a death of the Soul without sin, is a supposing of things impossible, since neither Moses Prayer nor Paul's wish in that sense, which you follow, were possible, as all Divines both new and old confess.  

g Chrysost. 〈◊〉. 16. in ca 9 ad Ro●….  Paul wished (saith Chysostome) to be separate from Christ, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, if it were 
Paul wished if it were p●…ssible and lawful.  possible. And again, Therefore am I grieved (saith Paul) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and if it were (lawful or possible) to be separated and estranged, not from the love of Christ, (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, far be that from me to wish, because he did this for love) but from that fruition and glory, I could admit it, that my Lord should not be blasphemed. Photius, as he is collected by Oecumenius, 
Ibidem.  thus expresseth Paul's wish. 
h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ca 15. in 9 ca 〈◊〉. ad Romanos.  Paul saith, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that if it were possible by my destruction for Christ to be glorified, and the jews to be saved, I would not refuse it. I could wish it, saith he, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, if it might be, if it were lawful, if that choice were given me; I would prefer the glory of Christ, and the salvation of many before mine own. The new writers that take Anathema for a separation from Christ, as chrysostom doth, add the same conditions which he doth, confessing it never the less to be simply impossible. The judgements of Peter Martyr and Zanchius we saw before. Aretius' repeating this exposition amongst others, saith. Or else 
i Aretius' in ca 9 epist. ad Romanos.  separated from Christ, that is everlastingly damned, if that were possible, that with the loss of one soul the salvation of many thousands might be redeemed. The affection of those that speak lovingly, proceedeth often to things impossible. For of itself neither was it possible, that the Apostle with his destruction should redeem the unbelieving jews, and it had been wicked so to think, since the merit of Chr●…st alone is propitiatory; neither was this lawful for the Apostle to offer himself to be a Red●…mptorie sacrifice for the salvation of others; but the Apostles affection is to be considered wishing impossibilities upon an honest desire. Piscator in his Scholies upon that Chapter to the Romans. 
k Piscatoris Scholia in ca 9 ad Rom.  I did wish, for, I could wish: Nempe si lic●…ret sulua pietate, meaning, if it were lawful so to do without breach of piety. Beza. 
l Bezae Annotationes in 9 ca ad Rom.  This is very much to be observed, that Paul doth not say, he did so wish at any time, but he was so affected, that willingly he could be content to redeem the destruction of his nation with his own, nempe sisieri sic potuisset, meaning if that might possibly be. And therefore it is a needless disputation, that many here undertake, whether this wish were lawful or unlawful. If Paul ref●…ained thus to wish, because it was neither lawful, nor possible actually to obtain it, how senseless and truthless are your four observations grounded upon the possibility and piety of this wish; whereas all men of any judgement or understanding conclude the clean contrary? but such is your carriage that except you may cross the resolutions of all men, you think yourself no body. Be famous therefore in your folly, that bring impossibilities and impieties for the chief foundation of your late sprung faith; your Reader I trust will require some better proof, before he give you allowance in matters of such moment as these be.  

m Defenc. pag. 97. li. 1.  Thirdly that extraordinarily there is greater love among mere men, then only to die bodily one for another, though usually and ordinarily a greater cannot be found among men: which is it that Christ meaneth: but how much more than may the love of Christ toward his elect be far greater: contrary to your assertion pag: 107. 108.] Your doctrine is all extraordinary, 
The Defend●…r saith the Scriptures ●…re ordinarily true, that is, sometimes false.  that no ordinary rules of the Scriptures can stand with it. Howbeit in this you challenge Christ, and not me, who saith: 
n john 15.  No man hath greater love, then to lay down his life for his friend. That is ordinarily true, you say but extraordinarily false. Then extraordinarily by your supposition Christ sometimes speaketh an untruth, though it be not ordinary with him so to do: which honour you yield to the rest of the Scriptures. For when you can not otherwise avoid them; those, you answer, are the 
o Defenc. pag. 96. li. 32.  ordinary and common rules of the Scripture; But your doctrine consisteth of extraordinary Rules, which are no where found but in your own brain. You have heard chrysostom, Photius, and Zanchius avouch (who are the chief commenders of the exposition, which you would seem to follow) that Paul neither did, nor might prefer the love of his Countrymen before his own salvation, and communion with Christ; but that his principal respect in this wish was his love to the glory of Christ, which he more esteemed than his own soul. So that nothing did hinder Paul to prefer God's glory before the safety of his own soul, and yet Christ's rule to stand true, that no man hath greater love, then to lay down his life for his friend. Neither was it the death of the Soul that Paul wished, since he would by no means, as these old and new writers observe, be severed from the love and favour of Christ, but from the joy and honour that is laid up for the saints of God. Peter Martyr is of the same opinion with them. 
p Pet. Martyr in ca 9 epist. ad Romanos.  Neither doth Paul in this place say, he wished to be separated from the love of God, (nullo enim modo voluisset ab illo amando desistere: for by no means would Paul have ceased from loving God) only he wisheth to be excluded from the blessedness and fruition of God. And this every one of us ought to be willing unto, even less to regard his own (eternal) happiness than the glory of God. Now he that still loveth god, and is beloved of him, by no means can suffer the death or curse of the soul mentioned in the Scriptures. 
q 1. Cor. 16.  if any man love not the Lord jesus Christ, let him be Anathema maranAtha, that is accursed in the highest degree. then could not the same curse befall him, that loved Christ dearer than his own soul; but the words of our Saviour must needs be verified in him, 
r Ma●…th. 10.  he that looseth his soul for my sake, shall find (or save) it.  
So that neither of your suppositions are true, either that Paul preferred the love of men before the safety of his own soul, or that for their sakes he was content to die the death of the soul mentioned in the Scriptures, which is a separation as well from the love and truth of God, as from the glory and felicity of God. And your comparison, for which you intent all this, and wherewith you would cross my assertion, is most untrue, that Christ's love to his elect led him to die the death of the soul, or to forego the favour and fellowship of God for their sakes. For the conjunction of Christ's manhood to his Godhead, being personal, was far greater and nearer than the knitting of Paul or Moses unto God; and if that union were broken, all the works and sufferings of Christ's manhood were no way able to bring us to God. 
Christ could not be content to be separated from God for us.  Wherefore it were a thing extremely impious in the manhood of Christ, and no less dangerous to our salvation, for him to be content to be utterly severed from the union and communion of the divine nature, with which he was personally joined; and though your imagination of Moses and Paul be false enough, and altogether impossible, yet to dream the like of Christ, is the higth of all impiety. Neither doth that diminish his love to us, since there was no need thereof for us, his other sufferings being sufficient in the just and exact judgement of God; and the love, that led the second person in Trinity to lay aside for the time the full and perfect fruition of his glory, and equality with God his Father, and in our flesh to empty and humble himself, not only to the infirmities of our nature, and miseries of our life, but even to the shame and pain of our death on the Cross, far exceeded all the loves, that men or Angels could show unto us. For there is more distance between the glory and Majesty of God, and the sense and shame of our misery and mortality, then betwixt the salvation or damnation of men or Angels. Wherefore Christ's love to us may not be diminished, or made inferior to the love of creatures, though he were not damned for our sakes, since that inevitablely and irrevocablely would have fastened us to a greater condemnation, and no way saved us; whereas now his unspeakable fellowship with God hath recalled us all from the damnation due to us, to be partakers of the love and grace, that eternally and infinitely he possessed with God.  

s Defenc. pag. 97. li. 6.  Fourthly, we see here these holy men, without feeling any pains inflicted by God's wrath, but only through an earnest and mighty compassion of love had their minds drawn so wholly to think on this special thing above their reach, that during the time they turn not themselves to any other cogitation. 
t li. 17.  This you acknowledge may be in men, and yet you will not scoff at them as cast into a Trance by it, nor reproach them with infernal confusion. How much less ought you so to deal with Christ] Your fourth observation is like the rest, that is, void of all reason and truth. For though you take upon you to be bold with Moses and his prayer, which yet you cannot show 
u li. 14.  was directly against his own salvation, as you avouch; what proof have you that Paul advisedly and considerately writing to the 
The fourth error pretended from the former examples.  Romans, was amazed, and had no remembrance that God's election was immutable, and certainly reserved for him and the rest of Gods chosen in the heavens? will you tell us, that the Scriptures were written by men amazed, and forgetting the first principles of religion even in their writings? you may do well to make that your fifth observation rightly matching your doctrine & devotion: but I ween few wise men will allow this or that audacious enterprise in you. I did in those words of mine which you bring, describe what astonishment by nature was; to wit, fear & admiration so mixed, that for the time both sense & speech are suddenly inter●…upted, whiles the soul most earnestly beholding, or declining that, which she 〈◊〉 not or endureth not, neglecteth the sense or speech of her body, as regarding or attending greater things, that presently or fearfully oppress her. What is this to Moses or Paul? if they were astonished with fear, then neither could they speak, nor write; how else they should be carried besides themselves, I do not see, nor you do not say. Moses had often access to god, and so feared not to speak, or pray unto him; and at the first kindling of God's wrath against the people, for making the Golden Calf, Moses carefully and mindfully proposed in his 
x Exod. 32. vers. 11.  prayers to God both the reproach, which the 
y 12.  Egyptians would breathe forth against gods holy name, and the 
z 13.  oath made by God to Abraham Isaac and jacob, to give their seed the land of Canaan for an everlasting inheritance. And the Scripture saith that upon that prayer, before Moses went down from the mount, 
a Exod. 32. vers. 14.  The Lord changed his mind from the evil, which he threatened to do unto his people. Less cause than had Moses afterward to be amazed, having already diverted and pacified the brunt of God's anger against the multitude, and praying now for the quite abolishing of this sin, out of God's remembrance, and the continuance of his favour, and presence to go before his people. Augustine thinketh Moses was well advised in his prayer, and knew God's mercy to be such, that he would rather spare the wicked, then destroy the godly; of which goodness in God Abraham presumed, when he made request for Sodom. 
b August. in Psal. 77.  God (saith Austen) so spared that nation, that he kindled not his whole wrath utterly to root them out, and make an end of them, which appeareth plainly in God's speech, and Moses prayer for their sins; where God said, I will raze them (from the earth) and make thee a great people. But Moses interposeth himself, paratior deleri pro ipsis, quam ipsos, readier to be cut off, than they should, 〈◊〉 apud misericordem se id agere, qui quoniam nullo modo deleret ipsum, etiam illis ipsis parceret propter ipsum, knowing he should prevail with him that was merciful, who would by no means destroy him, but rather spare them for his sake. So that Moses by the judgement of S. Augustine was not amazed in his prayer, as you falsely presume, but remembered himself well enough, and put his life into God's hands, as more willing to be slain, than the whole multitude should, and knowing that God would rather spare them in mercy, who were trespassers, than slay him, that was innocent.  
For Paul you have less reason, since he doth not actually wish it, but sayeth, he could wish it, if it were lawful and possible; meaning, he could be content to put body and soul into God's hands, to do there with what pleased him, so the truth of Christ might be received and acknowledged of the jews. His manner of speech, which must be conditional, except you grant it to respect the time past, proveth that he was well advised in referring all to Gods will, and reserving as well God's counsel, as his word revealed, without touch or impeach. And therefore that the Apostle so writing was amazed, I see no ground, besides the gulf of your own inventions. I am far therefore from scof●…ing at them, as if they were in a trance, in whom I see no such amazedness as you imagine; much less may you take upon you for your pleasure, to put the son of God into the same distemper, as you call it, with others; since both his words and deeds recorded by the Evangelists, declare him to have been not only full of grace and truth, but mindful of the least circumstance, that pertained to his passion, and of purpose to direct his sayings and doings to all those issues, which the Scriptures forespoke of his sufferings.  

c Defence pag. 97. li. 20.  Specially you should acknowledge that his marvelous perplexity might well be a means, that his sudden wishes against his own constant purpose and Gods will were yet no sins.] That Christ might be somewhat astonished in the Garden, I do not dame, because that was an affection incident to our nature, and specially for that the Scripture applieth the words, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 
d Mar. 14.  he began to be afraid and astonished, unto him; but that this astonishment continued all the time of his passion, or of his prayers in the Garden, and that it proceeded from the sense of hell pains inflicted on him, these are your voluntary fancies void of all foundation in the word of God, and wholly depending on your private conceits. For were it an astonishment, as it was sudden so it must be short; and though for the time it might suspend sense and memory, yet when Christ began to pray, he resumed not only the power of speech, which in a maze men want, but of understanding also, since prayer without faith is a sinful temptation of God, and faith requireth as well knowledge, what we ask, as persuasion of God's goodness, that he will grant our desires. So that both the turning of Christ's tongue to speak, and the directing of his hart in prayer, do prove sufficiently, that Christ speedily recovered both sense & memory, if we grant, he was on the sudden somewhat astonished; the cause whereof you boldly conceive to be what you list, as your manner is without any care to make proof thereof. But as your observations were most absurd and false, so are your collections, that Christ by his pains (then felt and feared) had 
e Defenc. pag. 97. li. 23.  infinitely more cause to be in his mind amazed, then either Moses or Paul; since the Scriptures mention no pains then felt of him in his mind, besides the affections of fear and sorrow, which though they be painful to man's nature, yet differre they far from the pains of the damned, to which you seek in this place to fasten the soul of Christ.  

f Defenc. pag. 97. li. 26.  As for the Fathers which you cite, if they mean as they seem to do, that now at his passion among other causes of sorrow there wanted not this, even his great pity towards his forlorn countrymen, than we join with them. If they mean, as you would have them, that this was the main and chief cause of his extreme sorrow and amazedness, therein jutterly leave them.] You have a long while in most lavish manner untowardly pretended, that 
g Defenc. pag. 94. li. 20.  Certainly Christ would have greatly rejoiced to see the due execution of Gods most holy and deserved justice upon the jews; and now with a sudden retreat you join with Ambrose, jerom, Augustine and Bede, that this among other causes of sorrow wanted not in the Garden. Then as here you be more soberly minded then before, or he at least that made this collection for you; so this often crossing yourself, argueth that either you have not yet recovered your wits, to understand what you write, or that your helpers being in divers places, and not seeing the one what the other wrote, you have unhandsomely patched their notes together without marking, wherein they contradicted each other. But this we take to be the nearest the truth, since I do not urge this cause to exclude all others, which by any due circumstance of the Scriptures might concur to grieve him in the Garden; only I noted that those learned and ancient fathers conjecturing the causes of Christ's sorrow at that instant, never dreamed of your hell pains, which you have lately coined out of the hollowness of your own hart; but observed other causes, that might afflict his mind, which you in your Treatise rejected with great scorn, howsoever some of your friends have since drawn you to be otherwise minded. As for your leaning them, it is little to the purpose, they will remain wise and godly expositors, when such a blind guide as you are, will be lightly regarded withal your fantastical Novelties.  

h Defenc. pag. 97. li. 31.  Howbeit this here note in the, that these Fathers avouch Christ feared not his (bodily) death or passion: for thereof only they speak here questionless. You chose say that Christ feared (bodily) death, for thereof also you discourse, and had more cause as you think so to do then any of his members. First then they questionless gainsay your new plot of man's redemption by the pains of hell. For they speak of the death, which Christ died for our sins accordingto the Scriptures, which if they took to be only bodily, as you grant; they knew nothing neither of the death of the Soul, nor of the second death of the damned, which you avouch Christ must suffer, before he could redeem us; and so they, or you are clean besides the Christian faith. Again, they do not simply say, he feared not death, for than should they cross other fathers (and even themselves) affirming, that Christ had a natural fear of death, but the fear thereof was not the cause of this Agony, that is, he feared it not so much, as to be thus afflicted at the remembrance of it. Otherwise Ambrose himself saith. 
i Ambros. in Luc. li. 10. de tristitia & dolore Christi.  Debuit ergo Dolorem suscipere, ut vinceret tristitiam, non excluderet, & nos disceremus in Christo, quemadmodum futurae mortis mestitiam vinceremus. Christ was therefore to admit sorrow, that he might conquer it, not exclude it, and we in Christ might learn to overcome the fear of death approaching. So Cyrill. 
k Cyril. The sauris li. 10 ca 3.  Quando formidasse mortem videtur, ut homo dicebat: Pater transeat à me Calix iste. When Christ seemed to f●…are death, as a Man he said, Father let this Cup pass from me. For though as a man he abhorred death, yet as a man he refused not to perform the will of his Father, and of himself, being the word (or Son) of God. Morti ergo, quam ut homo formidabat, seipsum pro nobis ut Deus tradidit. To death then, which as a man he feared, he delivered himself for us as God. And Athanasius. 
l Athana. Ora tio 4. contra Aria.  As by Death Christ abolished Death, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and all human miseries by suffering them as a man, so by usual fear he took away our fear, and made Men no longer to fear death. And Damascene. 
m Damascen. orthodoxae fidei li. 3. ca 18.  As a Man (Christ) would have the Cup to pass. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. These wrrds proceeded from a natural fear. And Theophylact. 
n Theophyl. in 26. ca Matthaei.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. It is incident to the nature of man to fear death, for death entered besides (or against) Nature, and therefore nature flieth death. 
o Idem. in Luc. cap. 22.  The common fear of man's nature Christ cured, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 consuming (or dispersing) it in himself, and making it obedient to the will of God. This your ignorance apprehendeth as a contradiction in them, but were you quietly minded, or better acquainted with their positions, and reasons, you would soon see, that these may stand together, that Christ might have a natural fear of death incident to man, and yet that fear not to be the whole cause of this agony.  

p Defenc. pag. 97. li. 37.  Thirdly, touching his regard of his Church generally the same answer serveth, as it is given to the last point before.] You mean that among other causes of his sorrow this wanted not, which is as much as I avouched. And the more dearly he loved his 
The third cause concurring to Christ's agony.  Disciples that followed him, and the whole Church, that should after believe in him, the more inwardly he might sorrow for their infirmities, and earnestly pray for their safeties, being no way ignorant of satins eager and watchful malice against them. Since then after his resurrection and ascension he should in glory appear to the face of God for them, what let was there, but he might now in the days of his flesh, approaching to his passion for their deliverance, in most humble and ardent manner mediate aswell for their redemption as preservation; and in this love & zeal towards them, for whom he gave himself, power out both abundant tears, and bloody sweats to show the height of his desire and care to provide and purchase their protection and salvation? His supplications for us were a necessary part of our reconciliation to God, as well as his sufferings for us; and the Prophet expressing the one, adjoineth the other as no less requisite than the former, in saying; 
q Esa. 53.  he bore the sin of many, and prayed for the Trespassers. And no doubt he chose this place and time before his apprehension with inflamed and vehement affection of prayer to direct the course, and strengthen the force of all his sufferings, that receiving comfort and courage from above, he might wade through the work of our redemption with greater assurance and confidence in the eyes of all his enemies, to whom he would show neither fear nor sorrow, but silent and constant patience.  

r Defenc. pag. 98. li. 1.  If you urge that these Fathers are so resolute for these causes, as their words pretend, than you yourself abuse them more than ever I did or mean to do, where you say, it is curiosity to examine, presumption to determine, impossibility to conclude, (as these do) what was the true cause of Christ's agony.] A wise answer forsooth, and worthy the vigour of your wit; to say their words are so resolute, that I condemn them more than you, when they with all inoderation temper their speech, and by the generality or diversity of occasions, that might engender fear to Christ in the Garden, show they mean nothing less than to conclude any direct or particular cause of that agony. Ambroses words are; 
s Ambros. in Luc. lib. 10. de tristitia & dolore Christi.  Nec illud distat a vero. Neither is that dissonant from the truth. And again; 
s Ambros. in Luc. lib. 10. de tristitia & dolore Christi.  Et fortasse ideo tristis est. And perhaps he was therefore sorrowful. And so Augustine; 
t August. in Psal. 87.  Non incongruè nos dicere aestimo. I think we speak not without some reason. The rest admonish in general, that Christ sorrowed not for himself, but for us. Doth this conclude any special and certain cause of that agony? But when you can not otherwise decline them, you think it enough to shift them off with such a jest as this is. Indeed they touch your free hold somewhat nearly, when they say, Christ sorrowed not for any sufferings of his own: this you impugn for life; and if their assertion in this be true, they turn your hell pains clean out of Christ's passion. For if Christ suffered, as you dream, the death of the damned, he had good cause to fear and grieve at that which he felt; but with one consent Hilary, Ambrose, Jerome, and Bede reject that as false, that Christ did (thus) fear and grieve for any sufferings of his own. Whether therefore you or I most abuse these Fathers, let the Reader judge. And howsoever your helpers have somewhat haltered your headlong humours, not long since, as I have sormerly showed, you flung off these Fathers in this very case as 
u Trea. pa. 67.  fond, absurd and void of likelihood, reason, and sense; which whether it be an abuse to so grave and godly writers, I leave the Reader to censure as he seeth cause.  

x Defence pag. 98. li. 6.  Fourthly, you allege his inward sorrow and zealous grief for the sins of the world to be the main and chief cause of this agony. Surely even to rehearse these your arguments is refutation of them enough.] Your pe●…uish perverting of my reasons, and clapping a 
The fourth cause concurring to Christ's agony.  conclusion unto them against my express purpose and premonition, is indeed as soon refuted as rehearsed; but refer them to that for which I bring them, and then your brags are more than boyish. I plainly professed in my Sermons, that since the Scriptures expressed no particular cause of Christ's agony in the Garden, it was impossible certainly to conclude any direct or determinate cause thereof. What folly then is it in you to suppose, that I go about to infer that, which precisely I forewarned was impossible to be concluded? Of the causes, which I produced, I professed no more, but that they were consonant to the rules of piety, and might concur in Christ's agony, which you do grant after your nice manner by confessing these wanted not; and when you have yielded as much as I urged, than you run back to your silly shift, and say they were not the main or chief causes of that agony; your hell pains are left out, which must have a place, as you think, in that perplexity of Christ's in the Garden. But sir first prove your hell pains were then and there inflicted on Christ's soul, and then you shall have leave to couple that to the causes of Christ's agony. Till you so do, in vain you deny the rest for want of this. It sufficeth me to show religious and zealous respects of piety and charity, which might move Christ to those affections, and other proof of voluntary actions and inward affections can none be brought. And yet you may remember, sir Defensor, though you dissemble it, that when you trample so readily, but yet so rudely on my reasons, you wrong the ancient fathers, whence I collected them, more than you do me. Hilary and Ambrose do peremptorily teach, that Christ's sorrow in the Garden was not for himself, nor his own sufferings, but for our sins and wounds. And though you refute me with breathing out more absurdities than sentences in this your defence, yet the sober Reader will not suffer you so soon to deface their judgements and opinions, whom I follow. But we shall hear some doughty dispute to maintain this matter.  

y Defenc. pag. 98. li. 9  All these are proper parts of his holiness and righteousness, as I have said, but no proper parts or causes of his bloody and most dreadful agony, that is of his sacrifice satisfying for sin. Only his pains were, which then he f●…lt and feared.] All these were religious respects of fear and sorrow, which wanted not in Christ's agony, as you grant; now whether they were painful or no, a man would think should be no great doubt, but with one that hath lost both wit and sense. Saint john saith, 
z 1. john 4.  Fear hath painfulness. 
a August. de ver●…is Domini secundum johannem, Sermone 42.  Sunt duo tortores animae, timor et dolour. There are two tormentors of the soul, fear and sorrow, saith Austen. And who that hath but his five wits, doth not feel, that fear and sorrow are afflictions and vexations of the soul? Wherefore your excluding them from the sacrifice for sin, because they are no pains, is a learned piece of work which never a Morter-maker in England would stumble at besides you. Let shame, if not sense, teach you that fear and sorrow are very painful afflictions of the soul, and rather comprised then exempted in Christ's sufferings by that text of Scripture, which you pretend; and therefore necessary respects and pertinences to the sacrifice for sin. 
b Psal. 51.  The sacrifice of God is a troubled spirit, saith David. Why then should not the affliction of Christ's spirit with fear and sorrow be properly a part of his sacrifice and suffering for sin? They were proper parts, you say, of his holiness.] And might they not also, when they grew vehement & grievous, be parts of his sufferings? You would seem skilful after your unlearned manner in the soules-suffering. Is there any suffering more proper to the soul than fear & sorrow from her own cogitations, apprehensions, & affections? from the immediate hand of God, you think, is more proper. That in some cases may be possible, though in Christ's you can prove no such thing; but that is most proper, which the soul never wanteth, and hath of her own nature. And therefore so far is it from being exempted from the sacrifice of sin, that in us there is none other sacrifice for sin but repentance which is all one with godly sorrow, bringing with it 
c 2. Cor. 7. ver. 11.  c●…re, f●…are, desire, zeal and such like effects of true detestation of sin, as the Apostle describeth. Repentance for himself Christ could have none, because 
Inward and 〈◊〉 sorrow for ●…ur 〈◊〉 must be ●…ound in Christ's sacrifice for them.  he never sinned, but as our transgressions displeased the holiness, and provoked the wrath of God against us; so when our Lord and Saviour came to make full satisfaction for our sins, he did not only appease the justice of God by enduring his hand, but contented the holiness of God by inward and infinite sorrow for our sakes and sins, which we were not able to yield unto God. To have accepted the punishment, which Gods justice awarded, and to have neglected the offence and displeasure, which gods holiness conceived against sin, had been not to pacify, but to provoke God, in not regarding the cause which moved him to take vengeance on sin. It is therefore most agreeable to the rules of piety, that the inward sorrow for our sins, which the son of God impressed on his human soul, when he prepared himself to make purgation of them, did no less affect and afflict him, than the outward pains received in his body; and why you should exclude this from his agony, there is no reason, but that you are most in love with that, which hath least proof or likeliehood to be the cause of this agony.  
This being exactly noted by Hilary, Ambrose, Cyrill and other ancient and learned Fathers, I did rightly to observe it, how lightly soever your insolent conceit esteemeth it. 
d 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉. li. 10.  Igitur cum & tristitia de nobis est, & oratio pro nobis est, non possunt non omnia propter nos gesta esse intelligi, cum omnia pro nobis quibus timebatur, orata sunt. Since then both (Christ's) sorrow was concerning us, and his prayer for us, all the rest must needs be understood for our sakes, for so much as all his prayers were powered forth for us, for whom he feared. So Ambrose 
e Ambros. de fide ad Gratianum. li. 2. c. 3.  mihi compatitur, mihi tristis est, mihi dolet. Ergo pro me et in 〈◊〉 doluit, qui prose nihilhabuit, quod doleret. Doles igitur Domine jesu non tua, sed mea vulnera, non tuam mortem, sed meam infirmitatem. Christ is affected for me, he is heavy for me, he sorroweth for me. He sorroweth then in me and for me, who had nothing in himself to sorrow for. Thou sorrowedst Lord jesus, not for thine own wounds, but for mine; not for thine own death, but for my weakness. And Cyrill: 
f Cyril. de recta fide ad Reginas li. 2. ca de Sanct●…fication & 〈◊〉 Christi.  That Christ might make our prayers acceptable (to God,) himself beginneth the matter, even opening his father's ears to the nature of man, and making them most ready to the prayers of such, as were in any per●…ll for his cause. Therefore in him, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as in a second (root or) first fruits of mankind, we were praying with strong cries, and not without tears, that the power of death might be abolished, and the life (restored or) strengthened, which was at first bestowed on our nature. And Bede: 
g Bed●… in Luc●… c●…. 22.  If Christ were sorrowful to us, that is, for our sakes, it must needs be, that he was comforted (by the Angel) for us, and to our use. For what should he ask with that agony for himself, who here on earth gave heavenly things with power? Then neither Christ's sorrow in the Garden, nor his prayer with that agony after he was comforted by the Angel, were for himself or his own sufferings, much less for hell pains devised and inflicted by you on the soul of Christ, but his extreme sorrow and affectionate prayer might well be for our sins, whose cause he undertook, and for our sakes, whose persons he then presented unto God with most vehement contention of spirit, and of all the powers of soul and body.  

h Defenc. pag. 98. li. 12.  Neither in respect of these your supposed causes could Christ say, Save me from this hour, nor, Let this cup pass from me: as in respect of his infinite pains, he might.] The hour and cup which Christ speaketh of, are by himself referred not to any pains 
What cup Christ drank of.  suffered in the Garden, as you pretend, much less to the pains of hell inflicted by God's immediate hand on Christ's soul, as you would have it; but to the time and manner of his sufferings from the hands of the jews. Of the hour, after all his prayers ended in the Garden, and his last return to his Disciples, he saith: 
i Mar. 14. v. 41  Sleep hence forth, and take your rest, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the hour is come, behold the Son of man is given into the hands of sinners. Here is that hour that Christ so much spoke of, even the time that he should be delivered into the hands of sinners to suffer a cruel and shameful death at their hands. And so he told them, that came to take him, 
k Luc. 22. v. 53  This is your very hour, and the power of darkness. And this he called the Cup, which his father gave him to drink. For when Peter drew his sword to defend his Master from the hands of the jews, jesus said unto him, 
l joh. 18. v. 11.  put up thy sword into thy sheath: shall I not drink of the cup, which my Father hath given me? Peter neither did, nor could hinder the cup, which you imagine Christ drank in the garden from the immediate hand of God, he meant plainly to resist the jews, that they should not apprehend Christ. That enterprise of Peter when Christ would repress, and submit himself to his father's will and counsel for his death, he said as we saw before, shall I not drink of the cup, which my Father hath given me? So that the Scriptures mention the hour & cup of Christ's suffering on the Cross from the rage of the people & malice of the rulers; of your invisible cup containing the death of the damned, they say nothing.  

m Defenc. pag. 98. li. 16.  His holy and righteous affections were at all hours and seasons in him without measure holy, yet now at his death did not so expressly break out and show themselves, as they did at divers times before.] You receive a just reward of your error, that whiles you labour to impugn the truth, your luck is not to light on one true sentence to your purpose. That extreme fear and sorrow were at all hours and seasons in him, which yet were holy and righteous affections in Christ, is a notable untruth; and that they did not break out so expressly in the garden, as at divers times before, is another as false as the former; and but that it is no news in you to fasten on fancies, a man would marvel to see so many falsehoods couched so closely together. Christ's quiet and constant affections of piety to God, and mercy to men, were always in him, but these were not at all hours and seasons painful unto him: coming now to make 
What fear and sorrow Christ was to yeel●… to God when ●…e offered the ransom of our sins.  satisfaction for our sins, as the head for the members, and the Redeemer for his prisoners, Christ was to yield unto God as much fear of his justice provoked, and sorrow for his holiness displeased by our sins, as his human nature could admit, without loss of those gifts, or decay of those graces, which the fullness of the holy Ghost had rooted and established in him. Wherefore damnation and desperation excepted, and all dubitation excluded as well of his person, as of his function, he might yield to God for us, and as part of our ransom, the lowest degree of submission, and deepest impression of fear and sorrow, that man's nature could feel without doubting or distrusting the favour and goodness of God towards him or his. Wherein he did not only religiously give unto God, that which was due unto the holiness and justice of God, but he set us a pattern how we should approach to God, when we find ourselves loaden with sin, even in all fear and trembling of so great power and majesty, and with inward grief and groans of heart for displeasing so admirable holiness, that we may receive comfort from God, when we do not spare truly to acknowledge his goodness, and earnestly to lament our own wickedness. These very painful, but yet very holy impressions of fear and sorrow with tears and sighs unspeakable, Christ showed and sanctified in his own person, as an acceptable sacrifice to God, not for any blemish of his own, who was the clean and undefiled lamb of God, but for our heinous and enormous sins, the excess whereof could never be matched or purged but by the infinite dignity and humility of him, that owing nothing paid all, and forced to none of these freely offered his obedience to the honour and glory of his father.  

n Defenc. p●…g. 98. li. 21.  It standeth not with his pi●…tie, to wish that his strong and vehement affections of holiness should pass from him or be weakened in him. for my part I can see no sense nor sap in these assertions. You see sense and sap in that which hath neither truth, proof, nor use in the word of God: and in the plain principles of piety (so unsavoury is your palate) you find no taste. Those words, Let this cup pass from me, most men refer to the death of the cross, which Christ was after to suffer. Will you thence infer, that the fear and sorrow, which he felt in the garden before his apprehension, were not grievous, because they were religious? And what if Christ spoke of the present impressions of fear and sorrow, which he wished to be mitigated with comfort from God, as they were within a while by the sending of an Angel from heaven; did he therefore wish the holiness of his obedience and humility to be changed, because he prayed the burden thereof might be eased? 
o Psal. 51.  Restore to me, (saith David) the joy of thy salvation. Doth that prove David prayed against the godliness of sorrow for sin, because he would have the sharpness of it turned into joy? no more is it consequent, when Christ weakened himself with exceeding susception of fear and sorrow, though both religious, that he wished the holiness of either might cease, when he would have the painfulness of either as●…waged? A damned or desperate fear and sorrow you would better digest in the soul of Christ, though Christian piety do detest it; but a vehement affection of godly fear or sorrow you endure not, because it hath no concurrence with your hell pains.  

p Defenc. pag. 98. li. 24.  Where you ascribe to this his deep sorrow of zeal for men's sins, his sweeting blood in his agony above Nature after a strange and marvelous manner, I dare say you deliver strange marvels in Divinity.] Christ sweeting blood, if it were natural, I do not ascribe to fear or sorrow, but rather to vehement intention of prayer, which the Evangelist mentioneth in that place: if it were above nature, as 
q 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. 28 & 29.  Hilary, Augustine, Prosper, Bede, and Bernard do think, there can be no reason required of his voluntary affections, besides his will, the cause whereof is secret to us, though some ancient writers conjecture at the significations of it. But why it should not be marvelous, have you any reason? for admit your own conceit were true, which as yet is no way justifiable by the sacred Scriptures, ever read you there, that any man before or besides Christ had sweat like drops of blood falling from him, for all their complaints, 
Christ's 〈◊〉 sweat●… was not only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 proper to Christ.  as you pretend of hellish fear, sorrows, and pains? It must then be marvelous, which no man else, but only Christ, did ever perform, whatsoever the cause thereof were; and in your fancy most marvelous, since you dream, that all the members of Christ suffer the like pains as due to mankind for sin, and yet you can produce none of them, that ever did sweat blood but Christ alone. And where you make the pains of hell to take hold of Christ's Soul till the time of his death, yet did he not after this, show any such thing but only in the Garden. How could it then be but marvelous, that so violent a cause continuing and increasing, as you imagine; the effect, which in your fancy was this bloody sweat, should cease, and not appear, but when Christ would? but whether of us delivereth strangest marvels in Divinity, you that hold, the death of the damned and the true pains of hell were here inflicted on Christ's Soul by God's immediate hand, and must likewise by your supposal on all Christ's members: or I, that teach Christ as our head, in the work of our redemption, for the satisfaction of our sin offered as much sacred fear of God's power, and inward sorrow for our displeasing the holiness of God, as man's nature without despairing or doubting was capable of; let all the faithful judge, and examine every man his own conscience, in which of these twain he is like unto Christ. For they must be conformed to his sufferings, before they shall be partakers of his glory. If than none shall reign with Christ, but such as have suffered with Christ, which must be hell pains as you defend; I leave it to each man's secret cogitation, that shall light on this question, how many thousands of good and godly men must give over all hope of salvation, since with sighs and sorrows unspeakable stirred in them by the holy Ghost for their offending and displeasing the goodness of God, they are and aught daily to be acquainted; but with the true pains of hell, & death of the damned in this li●…e, few Christians have any communion. And if any through distrust of God's mercies, and assault of their own sins, be terrified with desperation or dubitation, let them assure themselves in either of those they be most unlike unto Christ, whose faith stood ever fast, and fully resolved of God's favour, both towards his person and function; which was the purgation of our sins, and the reconciliation of God with man.  

r Defenc. pag. 98. li. 28.  The fifth cause, you say, might be the Cup of God's wrath tempered and made ready for the 〈◊〉 of men: ●…hich you interpret to be eternal malediction.] You are no good 
Th●… fifth cause con●…urring to Christ's agony.  reporter of my words, in avouching that I interpret the Cup of God's wrath tempered for the sins of men, to be eternal malediction. My words are. 
s Sermo. pa. 21. li 22.  In this Cup are all manner of plagues & punishments for sin, as well spiritual as corpor all; eternal as temporal. And before I came to declare, what Christ might behold, and by prayer decline in the mixture of this Cup; I expressly forewarned, that 
t Sermo. pa. 21. li. 27.  diucrse men have diversly expounded those words of Christ, (let this Cup pass from me; 
u li. 36.  and in this variety of judgements I meant to refuse none, that any way agreed with the rules of truth. So that I here repeat the opinions of others, and only show in what sort and sense they must be restrained and referred, before they can be concorded with the truth of the Scriptures. But let us hear what you impugn, and how?  

x Defenc. pag. 98. li. 30.  You say Christ knowing what our sins deserved, might intentively pray to have that Cup pass from him, which was prepared for us. For us, whom mean you? the elect or the reprobate? what malediction? the whole and absolute pains thereof only, or the eternity of the continuance thereof also?] Wrangling is your best refuge, when you know not otherwise how to right yourself. Is this so hard a question with you, what was the desert and wages of our sins by God's justice, had we not been redeemed and saved from the wrath to come by Christ jesus? Is it so strange Divinity, to separate nature from grace, and justice from mercy in the elect, that they may discern, what they were, and should have been in themselves without the favour of God in Christ, who freed us, when we were servants to sin; quickened us, when we were dead in sin; and saved us, when we were justly wrapped in the same condemnation with others for sin? Do not all these words, Redemption, Remission, Reconciliation, and Salvation in Christ prove, that of ourselves, and in ourselves we were prisoners subjecteth to sin, and condemned as enemies, to God without Christ, in whom we are freed, pardoned reconciled and saved? Your ears are very curious, that can not abide to hear what was deserved by our sins, and prepared for our sins, had God dealt with us in justice, not in mercy for his sons sake. It is healthful and needful for us to remember & acknowledge, what our natural desert and condition was without God's heavenly commiseration on us, and election of us in Christ his Son.  

y Defenc. pag. 9●…. li. 35.  If you mean the Elect, Christ knew that he must not only see and contemplate, but feel and suffer all the whole pains of that punishment, which our sins deserved, and this was prepared for himself our ransom payer, and not for us.] Christ was not only to suffer that, which in his person should be sufficient in the righteous judgement of God to appease his anger, and purge our sins, but he was farther to see and behold from what he delivered us, even from the wrath to come. How should the price and ●…orce of his death be known unto him, if he were ignorant what dreadful and terrible vengeance was reserved and prepared for sin, if he did not redeem us? Wherefore he was not only to feel that, which should free us, but exactly to view & know the rest, that was due to our sins, if he did not avert it. And where you proclaim with open mouth, that Christ must feel and suffer all the whole pains, which our sins deserved; it is a pestilent and evident impiety. For either you must defend, that our sins deserved not the loss of God's kingdom, and the perpetual pains of hell fire in body and soul; or else you must confess, that Christ suffered the same. You spoke even now of strange marvels in Divinity. These monsters be past marvels, which you prove only by yourself, and by your own surly conceit. [this was prepared for him, and not for us,] Was hell fire prepared for Christ? he was ordained to be our Saviour by the sacrifice of himself on the Cross, that by his death full of shame and pain he might redeem the transgressions that were in the former Testament; but that hell fire or everlasting death, which is the desert of our sins, was prepared for him, is a Doctrine fit for no man, but for him that hath made a shipwreck of his faith to land his fancies on shore. [Damnation you will say, was not prepared for us, but rather Salvation:] mean you without Christ, or in Christ? in Christ, I have no doubt but we were before all worlds appointed to be heirs of Salvation, when in ourselves we should deserve far otherwise. But here showing the means of man's redemption, I speak of man not yet redeemed, and therefore l●…ing as yet in the desert and danger of damnation, i●… Christ did not deliver him. In which sense the Apostle not only saith, 
z Ephes. 2.  We were by nature the children of wrath, as well as others, but 
a Rom. 5.  by the offence of one, (death came) on all men unto condemnation. Which speech the ancient Fathers do every where follow. 
b August. Episto●…a. 89.  Qui per generationem illi cond●…mnation obligati sunt, per regenerationem ab eadem condemnatione soluuntur. They which by birth are obliged (or fast tied) to that condemnation, are by regeneration delivered from that condemnation. And so 
c Idem. Epistola. 105.  merito namque peccati universa massa damnata est. By the desert of sin the whole mass (of mankind) was condemned. If the Christian faith permit us to say, that we were condemned before we were redeemed, since we could not be redeemed but from condemnation, how much more lawful is it for me to say that everlasting death was deserved by us, and prepared for us without Christ; since the reward of sin was first provided for the devil and his angels before man fell through his enticements, and was never since unprepared?  

d Defenc. pag. 9●…. li. 〈◊〉.  The truth is, he could not by any means pray against that, or decline that, only unless he were for the time in some astonishment and perturbation of his senses, which by the infiniteness of that pain he well might be, yea he could not but be, as is afore showed to have happened in Moses and Paul.] There is as much truth in this, as in the rest of your devices. Here are errors as thick as hops, shuffled in upon your bare word, the proof whereof you bring after at leisure about latter Lammas. 1. That Christ felt infinite pain●…s of hell, which you before named all the whole pains, which our sins deserved. 2. That by the infiniteness of that pain he could not but be in some astonishment, and perturbation of his senses; which though here you mitigate with (some) yet afterward you strain it above the extremest degree of astonishment that might be. Your words are. 
e Defenc. pag. 128. li 26.  Therefore no marvel though this astonishment (in Christ) were far greater, than is to be seen in any man, that ever was or shall be. Wherein you keep the Saviour of the world as long, and as often, as pleaseth yourself. 3. That against these pains he could not by any means pray, only unless he were thus astonished: 4. That Paul in his Epistle to the Romans expressing his affection for the jews, was likewise astonished and amazed, as not knowing what he said. 
f Defenc. pag. 99 li. 8.  This is the very point of our Defence: affirm this, and you affirm with us all that we hold and profess.] When I am out of my wits, I may chance to hold these conceits with you, otherwise so long as God giveth me grace to be soberly minded and well advised, I will see other manner of warrant for all these weafes and strays than you yet show, before I affirm them or profess them.  

g Defence pag. 99 li. 9  Otherwise if you mean, that Christ prayed intentively to have the whole and entire cup of eternal malediction and death pass from him, which both the elect deserve and the reprobate sustain, that as it is p●…ssing strange doctrine, so is it simply impossible. For he could not intentively pray against that, nor fear that, which he perfectly knew concerned him not at all, and by no means could ever possibly come n●…are him.] I premonished the Reader, that I would there repeat the divers judgements of divers men, and so far admit them, as they might accord with the Christian faith. To this opinion of some men that Christ was in his agony strooken with a fear of eternal death, and so might pray against it; I gave two expositions, how those words might be tolerated in Christian Religion without apparent impiety. The one, that 
h Sermo. pag. 23. li. 21.  Christ had no need to pray for himself, (against that cup of eternal death) but ONLY FOR US, who then suffered with him & in him. The other, that if we would conjoin Christ's person with ours, fear must there be taken for a shunning and declining of that cup, which he 
i Ibid. pag. 24. li. 10.  religiously disliked. For 
k Ibid. pag. 23. li. 29.  touching himself, albeit the innocency of his cause, the holiness of his life, the merit of his obedience, the abundance of his spirit, the love of his father, and unity of his person did most sufficiently guard him from all danger and doubt of eternal death: yet to show the perfection of his humility, he would not suffer his human nature to require it on right but prostrate on the earth besought his father, that cup might pass from him, and was heard in that he shunned or avoided. I repeat the self same words, which then I used, to let the Reader see that I shift not hands, nor change not minds as there is no cause I should; but that this Broker neglecting my manifest limitations to other men's opinions, and evident speech, as also suppressing my purpose, would have the world believe that I grant Christ doubted and feared eternal death to come on his own person. Which in the maze that you put him in, sir defensor, might well be, since you avouch he knew not what he prayed, or else he sinned in praying against the resolute and known will of God; but by my positions it is impossible, that any distrustful fear of hell, or eternal death should fall on the soul of Christ for the reasons there shortly, but sufficiently collected by me. And this is your idle course throughout your Book, to catch at a word and never to regard what goeth before or after, be it never so plain and perspicuous to recall your misconstruing my speech. Omit then your wanton roving, or malicious swerving from my meaning and saying, and refute either of these limitations, if you can.  
And first lest any man think, I limit other men's words without just cause, I meant herein the words of the Catechism, which you would feign pull into your pack, as also of some other writers, whose sayings so long as they might be salved with any good construction, I thought not fit to repel as intolerable in Christ's Church. The Catechism saith. 
l Nowel's Catechism Greek and Latin pag. 281.  Christum non communi modo morte in hominum conspectu mulctatum, sed et aeternae mortis horrore perfusum fuisse, horribiles formidines atque acerbissimos animi dolores pro nobis perpessum et perfunctum esse. Peccatoribus enim, quorum hic quasi personam Christus sustinuit, non praesentis modo, sed & futurae etiam aeternaeque mortis dolores atque cruciatus debentur. Christ not only died our common death in the sight of men, but was also perfused (The Translator of the Catechism into Greek allowed as well as the Latin saith, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agonized) with the horror of eternal death, & suffered and felt for us horrible fears, and most bitter sorrows of mind. For to sinners, whose person in some sort Christ here sustained, were due the sorrows and torments not of this present death only, but also of future and eternal death. Of the pains of the damned really inflicted in the garden on Christ's soul by the immediate hand of God, and of Christ's extreme astonishment for the present Torments thereof, the writer of the Catechism knew nothing; (these devices of yours are later than the making of that Book;) but he speaketh of Christ's fearing the infinite wrath of God against our sins, which he apprehended in the Garden, and in respect thereof fell into this horrible fear. These words of the Cat●…chisme, if we refer to the fear Christ had for his members then joined in one body with him, whose cause he undertook with more desire and care then his own, since he emptied and loaded himself to purchase their advancement and ease; they might be received and approved as sufferable in the Christian faith: but if we so took them, as if Christ had any doubt or distrustful fear of his own salvation, they were not agreeable to the truth. Yourself sir wrangler speak against this later sen●…e of the words, as much as I do. For you say, 
m Defenc. pag. 99 li. 11. & 12.  It is passing strange doctrine, and simply impossible, that Christ should fear the cup of eternal malediction, which he perfectly knew concerned him not at all, and by no means could ever possibly come near him. But the Catechism saith Christ was perfused (or perplexed) with the horror of eternal death. And as our head knit with us into one and the same body, he might tremble at eternal death hanging over our heads, and most dreadfully pursuing our sins in us, if he made not satisfaction for us. You would shift the word eternal out of the text, and tell us a tale of the substance thereof, which you will imagine how Christ shall suffer by a new device of yours, though the Catechism speak nothing thereof: but if you expound the Catechism, and not correct it, or confute it, you must show us how Christ might feel or fear EVERLASTING OR FUTURE DEATH due to sinners. For those are the words of the Catechism; who not content to say EVERLASTING, addeth thereto FUTURE death, which of force must follow after this present death separating the soul from the body, except you have the skill in Grammar to make future go before present. How Christ in conjunction with us, and compassion on us, might fear everlasting death for us, as imminent over us, and yet speak in his own name, I will in place convenient more largely declare, when I come to Christ's complaint on the cross; till which time I pray the Reader to have patience, lest I should be forced often to prove and repeat one and the same thing.  
Touching the other limitation, that Christ might fear, that is, war●…ly and religiously shun the cup of eternal malediction, and intentively pray against it, as well in respect of himself as of us: you blunder out a proposition which in Christ's cause is not so true as you take it to be. 
n Pa. 99 li. 13.  He could not (you say) intentively pray against 
Christ's manhood pr●…ied for that with all 〈◊〉 which his person by rig●…t might have chalen●…ed.  that, which he perfectly knew could by no means come near him. By this rule Christ should pray for nothing touching himself: for Christ perfectly knew all that God had most certainly decreed towards him; and chiefly God's resolute and revealed counsels for his glory. What need then was there Christ should pray for any such thing, since he perfectly knew what should come to pass, and by the power of his person was fully able to dispose of heaven and hell, life and death both present and eternal. His own words are: 〈◊〉 Whatsoever things the Father doth, the same things 
〈◊〉 john 5.  doth the Son also: for likewise as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them, so the Son quickeneth whom he will. The Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgement to the Son; that all men should honour the Son, as they honour the Father; and hath given him power also to execute judgement, in that he is the Son of man. Christ perfectly knew, that 
p E●…a. 42. & 49  he should be given for a light of the Gentiles. Did he not therefore ask it according to David's prophesy; 
q Psal 2.  Ask of me, and I will give thee the Gentiles for thine inheritance? Christ neither had, nor could have any doubt of his glorification. Did he not therefore pray: 
r john 17.  Now Father glorify me with thine own self, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was? Was not Christ most assured, that he should 
s Esa. 53.  divide the spoils of the mighty, and be a 
t Hose. 13.  death unto death, and a destruction unto hell? and yet David applieth these prayers unto him; 
u Psal. 22.  Deliver my soul from the sword, my desolate (soul) from the power of the dog. Save me from the lion's mouth, and hear me from the horns of the unicorn. Though therefore by the right of his power he might ha●…e said in all things, as he did in some, 
x Matth. 8.  I will, be thou clean; and again, 
y john 17.  Father I will, that they which thou hast given me, be with me even where I am, that they may behold my glory; yet to demonstrate the wonderful virtue of his obedience and humility, he suffered his human nature humbly to pray for that, which his person could of itself perform, and in all things referred himself to his Father's will, though he also said to his Father; All thine are mine, and I am glorified in them, and all things that the Father hath, are mine. Then might Christ in the Garden pray, that the cup of eternal malediction deserved by our sins might pass from him and his, though he submitted himself and his members to drink of the cup of God's wrath so much as should please his heavenly Father; which he was assured in regard of his prayer should be no more than he and his should well endure.  

z Defenc. pag. 99 li. 16.  All this is nothing else in effect then your first cause, his submission to God's majesty sitting in judgement. wherefore you might have lessened your number, and so your answer to this might have been the same, which is made to your foremost.] Your conceit is not so currant, that I should pair my number for your pleasure. Christ himself saith, 
a Matth. 22.  On these two Commandments, (thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with all thine heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself) hangeth the whole Law and the Prophets. Were therefore then the ten Commandments, which God gave to Moses, superfluous, because they might be revoked to two general contents? special parts and duties are profitably delivered, so long as they be any way distinguished, notwithstanding they may be comprised in fewer, but more general branches. The work of our Redemption was the sum of all that Christ did, said, or suffered here on earth. shall we therefore reject the rest of the Gospel, because the substance thereof may be expressed in a word or twain? [these you will say, are not distinct in matter but in words.] Who told you so? The trembling at God's glory, when it was revealed to man's infirmity; the honouring 
Fear & sorrow necessary in the sacrifice for sin.  of his sanctity with godly sorrow, which was despised with our iniquity, the mitigating of his anger with humble and earnest prayer, which was provoked with our contempts, were they not three different effects even in Christ himself, and so might stir up three religious affections of fear, sorrow and prayer? Why then should they be confounded in Christ, whose human nature might yield all three to God, as well in respect of piety to God, and of charity to men, as in regard of his office for the satisfaction of our sins? for he might not approach the presence of God as a Priest with our person and cause, who were sinful, though he were innocent and holy, to make intercession and sacrifice for our sins, but he must give God his due glory, have compassion on our misery, and mediate for our safety. As therefore I see no cause to exclude these affections and actions from the satisfaction for sin, so I see greater reason to include them in the sacrifice for sin, except we make Christ a Priest only by his SUFFERINGS & leave him neither any honour of OFFERING nor right of PRAYING for us in the purgation of our sins, which were a strange kind of Priesthood, & no way answerable to the levitical in that, wherein the apostle compareth them. For in the Law the Priest was to present the sacrifice to God, and to pray for the trespasser; which if you think needless in the true sacrifice, that should propitiate the sins of the world, you must correct the Apostle, that maketh the Law a figure of the Gospel, though the person of the Priest, and the price of the sacrifice far excel all that was under the Law.  

b Defenc. pag. 99 li. 20.  Furthermore, you knit in within this, four other sever all causes of Christ's agony, as you reckon them pa. 27. First, his taking of our infirmities in his flesh to cure them. Secondly, his breaking the knot betwixt bodily death and hell, which none but he was able to do. Thirdly, God's anger which might be executed on his body, but was mitigated by him. Fourthly, the desire he had to continue the feeling and enjoying of God's presence with his body.] As there is no one thing in the Scriptures, that receiveth and hath more divers opinions of it, than Christ's agony in the Garden; so I proposed as many as had any coherence with truth, and left the Reader to make his choice, which he liked best. Howbeit, I did not pag. 27. reckon four several causes of Christ's agony, as you mistake, but of the 
c Serm. pag. 27. li. 23.  fear which Christ had and showed of (his bodily) death. His agony had other parts and affections besides fear and astonishment, as sorrow, zeal, submissive and intentive prayer, and a bloody sweat: the objects and ends whereof might be as different as the things themselves. For example; Christ's fear in the Garden might have many respects and causes as well as his sorrow. He might fear the glory of God now sitting in judgement to receive recompense for the sins of his elect. For as Christ himself, who best knew it, confirmeth it by saying, 
d john 12. Christ's manhood might fear the glory of God's judgement.  Now (at hand) is the judgement of this world, now shall the Prince of this world be cast on't: so we must not think so mighty and weighty matters, as the judgement of the world, and the casting out of Satan the accuser of his brethren, and the admitting the Redeemer to present himself here on earth for our cause to the face of God in judgement, were decreed and settled by God without some revelation of his glory and majesty meet for those persons and purposes. For this is a rule which may every where be observed in the Scriptures, that when God is described as a judge, he is said to sit in a Throne, and all the host of heaven to stand before him, to resemble the glory of his judgement: as we find in Daniel. 7. vers. 9, 10. Esa. 6. vers. 1, 2. 1. Kings. 22. vers. 19 Wherefore David saith, 
e Psal. 9 v. 7.  The Lord hath prepared his throne for judgement. This Michaiah and Esay the Prophets say they SAW, which whether it were by sight, as Steven 
f Act. 7 v. 55.  looked steadfastly into heaven, and (with his eyes) saw the glory of God, and jesus standing at the right hand of God; or in spirit, as Ezechiel waking, and 
g Ezech. 8.  sitting in his house with the Elders of judah before him, was by a divine vision brought to jerusalem, to see all the abominations there committed; I dare not determine. Christ himself saith, I saw Satan fall down from heaven like lightning. Which way soever God's glory in judgement was revealed unto Christ, and beheld of Christ in the Garden, it was able for the time of his humility to impress a religious fear and trembling into his human nature, since Christ came now by judgement to have the burden of our sins taken from us, and laid upon him, that he might make satisfaction for them.  
Another thing that Christ might justly, and yet religiously fear in the Garden, offering now to ransom man from the wrath of God, was the POWER of God's wrath, 
H●… might fear 〈◊〉 p●…wer of Go●…s wrath 〈◊〉 our sin whi●…h h●… was to ●…eare.  which is fully infinite, and so far exceedeth the strength and reach of man's nature, that our earthly infirmity, to which Christ submitted himself for our sakes, can not comprehend the greatness thereof, nor think on the power thereof without fear and trembling. 
h Psal. 90. v. 11  Who knoweth (saith David to God) the power of thy wrath? for according to thy fear, (that is, as thou art feared,) so is thine anger. Contempt and carelessness kindle and increase the wrath of God against us, fear and submission assuage it. And when I name fear, I mean not a dreadful distrust of God's purpose towards us, which is desperation, but a persuasion and confession of his power over us, whereby we fear to displease him, and tremble before him withal submission, when we have displeased him. This fear Christ teacheth his disciples, when he saith, I will show you, 
Luc. 12.  whom you shall fear; fear him, which after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell; ye●… I say, fear him: not meaning, they should firmly believe, God would everlastingly condemn them, but that thinking on his power prevailing here and in hell, they should beware to provoke him, and with all humility prostrate themselves before him, when they had offended him, to prevent his anger. [Christ (you will say) needed not thus to fear, since he was no sinner.] For himself he needed not, because he was innocent and obedient in all things to the uttermost: but since he was at this time now to bear the burden of our sins in his body, and to have the chastisement of our peace laid upon him, he might, and did justly fear the power of God's wrath provoked with our sins; which though he were assured could not rage on him unto condemnation, yet God had infinite means to press and punish the human nature of Christ above that it was able to bear. And therefore except Christ would contemn the wrath of his father, which were impious, he was withal possible fear and trembling to deprecate his father's anger against our sins, knowing that God would at his most ardent and most suppliant prayer both pardon us, and proportion that pain according to the weakness of our flesh which he bore about him, that neither his obedience, nor patience should be overwhelmed nor endangered, but only proved and tried, that in all things Christ might show himself a pattern of perfection, as well by patience in affliction, as by innocency of life. And this fear the more vehement in Christ, the more pleasing to God, since it proceeded neither from infidelity nor distrust, but from piety confessing the greatness and justness of God's anger against our wickedness and unworthiness, and from charity putting his holy and harmless person in the gap between us and God, lest the wrathful displeasure of God lighting on us should utterly consume us.  
A third cause concurring with the rest of Christ's fears in the Garden, against 
Christ might fear the sting of death as horrible to man's nature.  which he prayed, might be the natural abhorring of death, which his manhood then had and showed in private, because he neither despised that punishment of God laid upon our sin; which indeed is and aught to be displeasant to man's nature; in that it was inflicted on us for disobedience; neither would he suffer his soul or flesh to struggle and strive with death (as ours do when sense and life begins to fail) in the eyes of his persecutors, to whom by the present and quiet breathing out of his soul in their sight, he would declare himself to be the disposer and ruler of death; and so more than a man, though as a man he were content to die for our sakes. And this kind of fear very learned and well red Divines agreed might be the cause of Christ's prayer in the garden, to have the Cup pass from him; not that he was then amazed, and in that astonishment prayed against the known will of God, as you imagine, and on that foundation build your conceit of hell pains to be then suffered in the soul of Christ, which you think excluded both reason and memory from Christ: but that he therein accorded with his father's will, who would have that Cup hateful and horrible by nature, though faith and obedience should overrule the fear and sting of death in our flesh, and Gods will be preferred before the natural dislike, which he would have us to feel of death. 
k Zanchius de tribus 〈◊〉 part. 2. li. 3. cap 9  As touching Christ's divine Nature (saith Zanchius) there was always one and the same will of the Father and the Son concerning his death and passion. Yea as Christ was man, he was always obedient to his Father, and therefore he said; I always do the things, which please him. What meaning then hath, Quod deprecatur mortem & calicem, that he prayeth to be freed from death, and from the Cup? Naturaliter, quâ homo, expavescebat, & exhorrescebat, fugiebatque mortem, Naturally as a man Christ feared, abhorred, and shunned death, & his natural horror of death he called his will, when he said, Not my will be done, to wit, this natural will which I have as a man. Yet neither doth this will of Christ resist his Fathers will. for the Father would have Christ to be like us in all things sin excepted, and to that end would have him made Man. Therefore when Christ did naturally shun and desire to escape death, he did not contradict his Father's will, because the Father would have this (natural) horror and fear (of death) to be in Christ, as a punishment of our sins. Wherefore it is altogether false, that Christ's will in this was divers from his Fathers will. For we have concluded, that this natural horror of death, which Christ called his will, was not repugnant to the will of his Father, whereby he would have Christ subject to this horror. If in respect of the same end the Father had been willing Christ should die, and Christ had been unwilling, or had never so little refused, than their wills had been indeed repugnant. But in reference to the same end, that is to our salvation, Christ always had the same will that his Father had. For in regard of our salvation Christ's will was ever the same, and constant: but in respect of his human Nature he never put off this affection, wherein he was like us, and whereby we naturally fly death. By the judgement of this learned writer the variety of wills in Christ, the one naturally shunning death, as in a man like us, the other accepting and desiring it for our salvation, was no contrariety either in itself, or to the will of God; but God himself would have the sting of our common and usual death to be grievous unto him, because it was the punishment of our sin in Adam, and yet obedience to countervail that natural detestation of death, when God for his glory calleth us to that trial, as he did his Son in that case.  
The like limitations of Christ's prayer in the Garden (if it were possible let this cup pass from me) other ancient writers delivered before Zanchius, who observe this express condition out of Christ's prayer, That if it were possible to stand with Gods will and our salvation, than Christ prayed the cup might pass from him, and not otherwise. 
l Orig. in Math. tract. 35.  Christ taking unto him (saith Origen) the nature of man's flesh, retained all the properties thereof: according to which he prayed in this place, the cup might pass from him. It is the property of every faithful man first to be unwilling to suffer any pain, specially that tendeth to death, because he is a man, and hath flesh; but if God so will, then to be content even against that will of his own, because he is faithful. There is also another Exposition of this place, which is this: If it be possible, that all those good things may come to effect without my passion, which otherwise shall come by my death, then let this passion pass from me, that both the world may be saved, and the Jews not perish by putting me to death. So Bede: 
m Be●…a in 14. ca 〈◊〉.  If death may die without my death in the flesh, let this cup (saith Christ) pass from me, but because this will not otherwise be, thy will be done, not mine. And Euthymius: 
n Euthymius in Matth. cap. 26.  As a man Christ said, If it be possible, that is, so far as is possible. And in saying, Yet not as I will, but as thou wilt; he teacheth, that we must follow the will of God, though nature reclaim. So that the preferring of Gods will before the desire of his own nature, and the limiting of his prayer with this condition, If it were possible (not to God's power, but to God's purpose) to save the world without his death, than he desired the cup might pass from him; prove apparently, that Christ was not only well advised in that prayer, but he meant to teach us, that neither the power of his enemies did oppress his weakness, nor his own love lead him to a needless death; it was rather Gods determined and irrevocable counsel and will, that he must die, or we must perish. By which we learn not Christ's inconstancy, as of a man amazed, but an excellent mystery of Christian religion, that no sacrifice could take away sin, but only 
The intent of Christ's prayer in the garden.  the death of Christ on the cross, which he for our sakes earnestly desired, though by his thrice declining it, if we might possibly be otherwise saved, he showed how painful and grievous that suffering would be unto him. We are therefore by the one to collect, how intolerable that cup would be to his flesh; and by the other, to behold his ardent love to us, and willing obedience to his Father: which things, if in your conceit they conclude Christ to have been therein amazed, I shall conjecture, that your wits are not to this hour yet well recovered; since greater piety and charity could not be showed in that infirmity, wherewith Christ was then compassed, and acerbity of pains to come, which he did not dissemble. Now let us hear how you impugn this.  

o Defenc. pag. 99 li. 26.  The first of these (four) maketh in my mind much for us. For understanding that Christ took all the infirmities and passions whereto men's nature is subject, to the end he might cure all and every kind of them in us; than it followeth, that he wanted not the pains and immediate sufferings of pains inflicted by Gods own hand in his soul.] It is but your mind that maketh so much for you, your collection is otherwise as wide from reason and truth, as any may be. For what if Christ taking our nature unto him took therewith all our infirmities and affections, (which you cunningly call passions, a word indifferent to affections and sufferings) doth that infer that he took unto him the pains of the damned, because man's nature through the hardness of his impenitent hart is subject after this life by God's just judgement to everlasting damnation for sin? are your eyes so ill matches that you cannot discern betwixt natural affections cleaving to all men from their birth, and the real suffering of hell pains inflicted, as you defend, by God's immediate hand on the souls of the faithful here in this life, which in deed are reserved for the wicked in another world, & are sometimes feared of the godly here on earth, when the conscience of their sin through want of faith calleth God's favour in question with their own hearts? first prove, that all the godly have the pains of the damned inflicted here in this life on their souls by the immediate hand of God; (for nature is not proper nor private to this or that man, but common and constant to all men) and next, that notwithstanding your hell pains thus suffered, they are in constant and perfect faith and assurance of God's favour and his heavenly kingdom; and than you have some pretence for your purpose, which now is none. For touching the first I appeal not only to the Scriptures, which teach no such thing; but to the consciences and experiences of all the faithful, whether this can have any truth in it, that the true pains of the damned are really inflicted on all their souls here on earth by God's immediate hand. And secondly, when they feel any fear of God's wrath, or doubt of God's favour; whether that come not through the failing and shrincking of their faith, which, pressed often with the number of their sins, feareth least God will visit their offences with a mercielesse judgement, because they have so greatly provoked him. The fear of hell may justly make them quake and tremble, which they acknowledge they have worthily deserved, and the same terror doth often, though not always, pursue the wicked unto desperation: but other torments of hell actually inflicted by Gods own hand on the souls of all the faithful, as the Scriptures deliver none, so you shall not be able to prove any common to all mankind, though God want not power to punish where and as pleaseth him. If therefore you speak of natural affections, they were common to Christ with us, but in us excessive upon every occasion, which in him were moderate, till they were inflamed with piety or charity, and then they burned more in him then in us, by reason of his abundant gifts and graces far passing ours. But if you talk of some secret speculations private to yourself, and some others of your sort, that dream perchance of hell pains both night and day according to your own fancies, than no words of mine, nor of any ancient father come near those devices of yours, which are known to no man either by reading or feeling, but to such conceiters as you are, if happily you do not bely, or deceive your own hearts.  

p Defenc. pag. 99 li. 37.  This your authors here do fully affirm; Cyrill, Ambrose and others, as before we have observed.] Mine authors there are easily red, and if any such thing be there mentioned, or thence to be concluded, I am content you shall be thought to speak some truth, which is almost a marvel in you, you wry all things so absurdly to your senseless fancies. Of your fourth argument, and of these authors I have largely delivered, what I take to be true, even in the place, where you produced them to this purpose. And so I leave this as lately refuted, lest I lengthen the volume to much.  

q Defenc. pag. 100 li. 1.  It is most unreasonable, which here you do, (if you do as you seem) to understand them of mere bodily death, and of the infirmities merely of his flesh.] Show that they name, or intent any other death, than the death of Christ's body on the cross, or else your otherwise conceiving them without any words of theirs is a plain perverting them, to pull them to your part. Of infirmities when they speak, they mean natural, such as were no derogations to faith, nor hope, nor to any other the graces of God's spirit in Christ, and in them all Christ was like unto us, whether they were infirmities of body or soul. Whether fear and sorrow be infirmities merely of the flesh, is a doubt fit for 
Fear may be intellectiu●… or sensitive.  your discussing; they may be sensitive or intellective according to their objects; and in Christ, since they were caused by things rather foreseen then felt, or at least by dangers and doubts weighed and considered by the spirit of Christ, I know no reason why you ascribe them merely to the flesh. As for the contrarieties, which you would take hold of, that Christ as a man did abhor and fear death, and yet not somuch as to fall into that agony or bloody sweat for fear of his sufferings; with such a slack and shallow Reader, as you are, they may bear a show of repugnancy; but to any man, that marketh or understandeth what is said, it acordeth full well, that Christ might have a natural fear of death, which is common to all the godly; and yet no such perplexed fear for any sufferings of his, as to sweat blood for pain thereof. And this maketh more against you, than you will seem to acknowledge. For if Christ had no such afflicting fear in regard of his own suffering or passion, but only in respect of us and our danger, then certainly by the censure of Ambrose, jerom, and Bede, Christ suffered no pains of hell, nor of the damned, since they would bread another manner of agony, than this life could endure. And howsoever the view of death fast clasped with hell, till Christ did break the knot thereof, might seem terrible to Christ's human consideration; yet for somuch, as he was secured from the one by the innocency, unity, and dignity of his person, though he submitted himself to the death of his body; this fear was both righteous and religious, and as far from the pains of the damned, as any sufferings of the soul in this life might be.  

e Defenc. pag. 100 li. 10.  He would not, he could not so fear and be affrighted, yea and piteously astonished with such sorrow oppressing him, as to sweat drops of blood only for fear of his bodily death; Neither would he pray at all, much less so vehemently, and so often times as he did, against that which he perfectly knew was God's will, and his own most willing purpose to undergo.] It is more than folly to mistake, misplace, and misapply every thing after this sort as you do; and then to collect you know not what, nor why, from your own unwise and rash presumptions. What if Christ had more cause of sorrow in the Garden, than his bodily death? ergo he felt the pains of the damned inflicted on his Soul by God's immediate hand. Tie this argument to the manger, litter is fitter for it, than an answer. Such blockish and brutish sequences were the first mortar that plastred your hell pains to Christ's passion. The work of our redemption, which Christ now undertook to have pronounced and settled by the righteous judgement of God, and his Elect to be freed, and pardoned of all their sins by the sufferings of his person, 
The work of our redemption was cause enough to provoke Christ's bloody sweat.  and to be restored to God's favour by his mediation, as also satan to be rejected from prevailing against them, or so much as accusing them; was a matter of the greatest moment in all Christian Religion. What marvel then, if the manhood of Christ, when it approached so weighty a work, as by prayer first to obtain and confirm all this, that after he might the more cheerfully and constantly accomplish his obedience unto death; What marvel I say, if the glory of God's judgement, and power of his wrath, the number of our sins, and neglect of our own state; the sharp and eager malice of satan made Christ with all possible fear of the great might and majesty of the judge, all passionate sorrow for the crimes and contempts of the prisoners, all earnest and zealous intention of prayer against the impugner and impediment of man's deliverance, to agonize himself even unto a bloody sweat? If in our prayers the spirit of Christ stir up 
f Rom. 8.  sighs unspeakable, when we remember what danger we were in; what sorrow, cries, and tears may we justly think, the fountain of mercy and piety would power forth in our behalf, when our salvation was now in question before the judge of all the world, and how burned that fire and flame of Christ's love and care for us, till he was comforted and assured from heaven, that God would not by our wickedness or unworthiness be stayed from performing his mercies towards us, in Christ his Son, nor from accepting Christ's obedience and sacrifice as the full ransom for all our transgressions notwithstanding all the resistance that sin or satan could make in the righteous judgement of God?  
This, you will say, God long before had purposed and promised unto his Son.] 
Christ was most earnestly to ask what God had faithfully promised to grant.  And that made Christ the more earnestly pray for it, since God had from the beginning determined, as well to have it asked by his Son, as granted by himself. And therefore Christ's supplications for us in the days of his flesh, and at the hour of his passion now approaching, were as needful as his sufferings, forsomuch as piety and charity are perceived rather by the Soul, then by the flesh; and God would never have accepted the outward murdering of Christ's body without the inward and acceptable sacrifice of his voluntary obedience, patience and love even unto death which were the points, that were chiefly precious in God's sight.  

g Defence pag. 100 li. 19  Or else Cyrill meaneth no more, but that Christ naturally misliked and 〈◊〉, (even as all flesh doth,) all bodily pain and death. This we alway yield, and it maketh nothing against us.] It maketh less for you, that Christ had and lawfully might have, as you grant, a natural misliking and shunning of all bodily pain and death: and consequently knowing the sharpness of the pain, that was prepared for him on the cross, might without breach of piety, or repugnance to Gods known will desire to have that Cup pass from him, if it were possible for man by God's good pleasure to be otherwise redeemed and saved. And this reservation of Gods will in his prayer, FATHER 
〈◊〉 Luke ●…2.  IF thou WILL'T, take away this Cup from me, which was the possibility meant by Christ, and his present preferring Gods will before the instinct of nature liking ease, in presently saying, Nevertheless not my will but thy will be done; doth exquisitely prove that Christ was not astonished in his prayer, nor past remembrance of Gods known will, as you dangerously surmise: and no cause you should conclude he felt hell pains in this agony, because the Scripture concealeth the sense of his fervent supplication, when after comfort received from heaven he fell into an agony of most earnest and ardent prayer, in which his sweat was like drops of blood. And therefore your foolish and wicked imagination, that Christ in his agoni●… was so amazed, that he knew not what he prayed, nor discerned when he impugned the will of God, is without all leading or likelihood of the word of God, and grounded only upon your wilful and hasty humour, when the Scriptures, and fathers precisely conclude the contrary.  

x Defenc. 〈◊〉. 100 li. 27.  Therefore I conclude, he thus feared not his bodily death, but it was the pains of the second death which he felt and so feared.] This conclusion may well be yours, it rightly resembleth the Maker. Christ feared somewhat, and not his bodily d●…ath; ergo he felt the second death, which the Scripture saith is the lake 
y Re●…el. 21.  that burneth with fire and brimstone. So many gaps in one conclusion would no man make besides you. For first, how prove you, that fear was the cause of his bloody sweat? If it were natural; fear, whi●…h quencheth the spirits, & cooleth the blood, could not procure a bloody sweat. If it were supernatural and mystical, (as Hilary, Austen, Prosper, Bede and Bernard observe) then can you conclude no cause thereof, but must leave it as a secret and wonderful effect of Christ's power and will known to God, and unknown to man. Secondly, if we grant ●…eare might be the cause thereof; the fear of God's power infinitely able to punish the sin of man on the person of Christ without the pains of the damned, might justly strike the Manhood of Christ with any terror that man's nature was capable of, without the loss of grace and faith. For fear doth not always apprehend what danger is toward, but only that some danger above our reach or strength is imminent over us. Thirdly, if fear of what you will, were the cause of this agony, it is no way consequent, that that which Christ feared, was really inflicted on him; since fear is of future, not of present eui●…l; and the Apostle beareth witness in this case, that Christ was heard (or freed) 
z Heb. 5.  from that he feared. Fourthly, how many things Christ would or did obtain of his Father for us by his sufferings, so many things might concur as causes of this inflamed prayer, whence 〈◊〉 by order of the Evangelists narration, this bloody sweat. So that there being four●… main exceptions against your collection, whereof you shall never avoid any one, you soaring aloft and stooping to nothing but your own dreams, light just on your hell pains, not because the Scriptures make any such mention, but because that best pleaseth your humour. And this is the very closet of your cause, and pride of your proofs touching hell pains suffered in the Soul of Christ: Neword, ne letter of Scripture to warrant it, but as you wrested Paul's wish to four notable untruths, so you sweep up Christ's sweat to make perfect your Pageant, that from things obscure, unknown and doubted with all men, as touching the precise and particular cause thereof, you may resolve what you list, and ti●… your Conclusions with cartropes of vanity and falsity.  

a Defen●… pag. 100 〈◊〉. 28.  But you say, (pag. 26. you should put 25.) the sorrow and fear of death, which it pleased our Saviour to feel in o●…r nature came not for want of strength, but of purpose to quench and abolish those affections in us. I say it came from both.] And I say you do not only rashly cross Saint Austen in that Negative, but you know not what you say. For the question is not, whether fear and sorrow be infirmities, which is your wise conceit; but whether Christ admitted them by his power and will, or by constraint and necessity, which Saint Austen there calleth infirmity, and I named want of strength. His words a man would think are so resolute, that without better ground than you have any, a sober Divine would not so proudly confront them. 
b August. in johannem tract. 60.  Non est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dubitandum, non ●…um 〈◊〉 infirmitate, sed 〈◊〉 turbatum. It is by no means to be doubted, that Christ was troubled, not for any weakness of mind, but of (his own) power. What saith your wisdom to this? Austen meaneth not only by infirmity, but also by his own will and power.] Coherent and different things may be thus coupled together, because both may be true; and diverse respects may reconcile contraries: but in one and the same sentence and sense to harle privations and positions whereof the one excludeth the other, as you do, is to make no construction, but a contradiction in Saint Austin's words. As if a man should say, this answer of yours is not only foolish, but also wise; not only unlearned, but also learned; we●…e it not ridiculous? And yet you knit Saint Austin's words together in that sort, where if the one be true, the other is false. For if Christ were troubled by infirmity and necessity, than was he not by his power and will, as Austen avoucheth he was. Wherefore you hit Saint Austin's meaning as rightly, as if a man should post to London Bridge with his back towards it. [or else you confute him yourself.] as how? because I say with Austen, Christ admitteth these affections and infirmities of man's nature, not for want of power to repres●…e them, but by volun●…arie obedience and humility, that in him they might be meritorious. Then how these affections prevailed on Christ's Soul, is the Question; whether by necessity, Christ not being able to resist them, or moderate them, which is the weakness of man's nature; or by his own submission, when he would, as he would, and to what end he would.  

c August. in johannem tract. 49.  Thou art troubled, saith Austen, against thy will; Christ was troubled because he would. In illius potestate erat sic vel sic ●…ffici, vel non affici. It was in his power to be affected thus, or thus, or not to be affected. Where there is sovereign power, there infirmity is governed according to the direction of the will. He must be ruler and commander of nature by his power, that was not troubled with any affections or infirmities but according to the liking of his own will. So was it in Christ. 
d August. ibidem tract. 60.  Non ●…rgo est aliquo cogente turbatus. Affectum quip humanum, quando oportuisse iudicavit, in seipso potestate commovit. Christ was not troubled by the compulsion of any. For when he thought it needful, he did stir in himself by his own power human affections. If to raise fear and sorrow within himself, when he would, were power above nature, and no human infirmity; as also to appoint how far they should prevail in him; what was it then by the power of these affections in him, to repress and temper all our infirmities and affections, and to endue us with heavenly grace and courage to resist and restrain the excess of those affections in our weak natures? was it power, or infirmity in Christ thus to work, either in himself, or in us? It was power no doubt in Christ to limit the time, degree and force of those affections, which his will would admit; and in all these things the less necessity of nature urged him; the more acceptable was his obedience unto God, that would voluntarily subject himself to our miseries, pains and afflictions. I then neither do, nor need deny, that our natural infirmities were common to Christ with us, but those were voluntarily received in him 
e August. de trinitate li. 4. cap. ●…3.  quia voluit, quando voluit, quomodo voluit; because he would, when he would, and as he would, even as Austen saith of his death. And though it be most true, which the Apostle writeth of Christ; 
f 2. Cor. 13.  He was crucified through (or as touching his) infirmity which was the flesh of man in him; yet Saint Austin's exposition of those words is right good, where he saith, 
g Ibid. lib. 13. cap. 14.  de qua infirmitate ait Apostolus, quod infirmum est dei, fortius est hominibus; even of that 〈◊〉 (wherein Christ was crucified) the Apostle also saith, the weakness of God is stronger than men. What seemed weakness in Christ, and is so called in the Scriptures in comparison of his divine power, even that far passeth the power and strength of men; and therefore the same Apostle calleth 
h 1. Cor. 1.  Christ crucified the wisdom, and power of God.  

i Defenc. pag. 101. li. 9  feign you would wipe away that Argument of ours, which sticketh nearer to you than you will seem. In malefactors there is a quiet and contented suffering of most exquisite and extraordinary torments often times, which they endure only by 〈◊〉 natural strength and courage of mind. How much more likely is it then, that Christ the very Rock of all strength and fountain of patience would not thus seem affrighted and astonished, for his mere bodily death, and that before it came unto him?] Your brablement is more tedious to me, than your Argument troublesome. You spend here a whole leaf to show that Malefactors and Martyrs o●…ten suffer most horrible torments very quietly and altogether without any such agony, as Christ showed in the Garden. How maketh that against me, who teach out of Hilary, Ambrose, jerom and Bede, that Christ was not thus agonized for any sufferings of his own, much less for fear of a bodily death; though he would be like us in having a natural horror of death, as Athanasius, Austen, Cyrill and Damascene affirm? What wandering and trifling is this, to be loquent in things superfluous, and silent in matters most serious? The whole work and weight of our redemption was now before Christ's eyes and apprehension in more exact and lively manner, (he now appearing before the judgement seat of God) than we in this body can discern or describe. For as all things needful shall be present and patent to us, when we are brought to God's Tribunal, where no truth of things without us, or within us, which concern us, shall be covered or concealed from us; so Christ presenting himself before the judgement of God to have Man redeemed by the ransom, which he would yield for him, and satan ejected from prevailing against his members by his mediation, did perfectly and fully behold both the detestation, that God's holiness had of all our sins, and the power of his wrath provoked by our defection and rebellion; as also the dreadful vengeance prepared and ordained for sin, and our dull and careless contempt of our own misery, together with the watchfulness and eagerness of the Adversary; the brunt and burden of all which he must receive, and avert from us by that kind of satisfaction and recompense, which the justice of God should then require at his hands. None of those things might be hid from Christ's present and perfect view, when he came now to perform that, which the judgement of God should think a just price and full recompense for the sins of men. The due consideration, contemplation, intuition and apprehension whereof being in Christ more clear, than we can conceive, might worthily make the Manhood of Christ not only fear and tremble, but in his prayers to God to stir and inflame all the powers and parts of body and Soul, as far as man's nature and spirit were able, with all submission, intention and deprecation possible to power forth themselves before God. These you push away not as false, but as parts of Christ's holiness; as if any fear or sorrow could be in Christ, which were not religious and holy; and substitute other sufferings of the damned; as the second death, and the true pains of hell from the immediate hand of God, deviced by yourself without any direction of the Scriptures; and those you dream Christ not only feared, but really felt in the Garden, otherwise he could not sorrow and sweat as he did.  
And because you would seem to say somewhat, though little to the purpose, and less against me, who avouch no such thing; you heap up here malefactors, murderers and thieves, besides martyrs, who never sweat blood for any bodily torments inflicted on them. Grant all this, though there be differences, which yet you see not, what infer you? That Christ did not thus sweat for his bodily death. What then? Ergo he suffered in the Garden the death of the damned, and the true pains of hell? This conclusion hangeth to the premises with hay-ropes, you wind it which way you will, and then you say, I would feign wipe it off. But to me that neither say, nor said any such thing, that Christ was thus agonized only for fear of his mere bodily death, these be rather wildgoose-races, then sober men's reasons impugning any thing that I did or do defend.  
And yet your comparisons be not so currant, as you conceive them. For though murderers or malefactors for obstinacy or stupidity, and martyrs for constancy may despise the torments, which they suffer, so long as strength of desperate malice in the one, or of heavenly grace in the other resisteth or endureth the pain; yet when nature is subdued and conquered by pain, that the soul must yield to death and depart, then can no man express, nor ever could any man declare, what conflicts of fear and horror the soul hath with death and in death. Only Christ, who on the Cross did voluntarily and instantly breathe out his soul with all quietness contrary to the course of man's nature, might before hand show in himself, if it pleased him, the anguish and agony, which naturally the soul hath in her struggling with death, and fainting under death, and which God had impressed on man's nature at the time of the departure of the soul from the body, in remembrance and resemblance of God's displeasure against sin, when by his mighty power he severed the soul and spirit of man asunder, to give way to death for the revenge of the first man's disobedience in all his offspring. I speak not this, as if there were none other causes, that might be of Christ's agony, but to show that your comparisons, which you take to be so strong, are worse than weak, since the souls both of Martyrs and Malefactors have a natural terror and horror of death impressed in them by God's power and will, though whiles strength and memory dure, they may be so confirmed in their good or evil purposes, that they do not yield so long, as they can make resistance. This natural horror of death, which man's soul hath impressed in her by Gods own doing, if Christ would admit in the Garden privately before his Father, as obedient to his ordinance, not openly before his enemies, to whom he would show nothing but patience and constance above all malefactors and martyrs, what force have your examples to refute this, since Christ voluntarily showed that in the Garden, which the souls of all men naturally do, when the fear or force of death falleth on them? 
k Petri Martyris loci communes class. 2. loco. 1. sect. 51.  Omnes pij statuunt in morte ir●… divinae sensum esse, ideoque sua natura dolorem & horrorem incutit. quod & Christus ipse, dum or art in horto, & alij multi sancti viri declaraverunt. All the godly (saith Peter Martyr) resolve there is a sense of God's wrath in (bodily) death, and therefore by the nature thereof it striketh a fear and terror (into us) which Christ himself, when he prayed in the Garden, and many other holy men have declared.  
To let you farther see, that your Malefactors and Martyrs do not prove, that Christ might not show himself afraid of death in the Garden, though in patience and constancy he exceeded all mankind, when he came to the present feeling of his pains, you shall hear the judgement of S. Austen affirming, that Christ by this voluntary 
Christ would be like the weak to comfort the weak.  fear would of mercy conform himself to his weak members for their comfort, lest they should despair when they feel the fear of death oppressing them. 
l August. in johannem tract. 60.  Firmissimi quidem Christiani, si qui sunt, qui nequaquam morte imminente turbantur. Sed numquid Christo fortiores? Quis hoc insanissimus dixerit? Quid est ergo, quod ille turbatus est, nisi quia infirmos in suo corpore, hoc est, in sua Ecclesia su●… infirmitatis voluntaria similitudine consolatus est, etc. They are indeed most settled Christians, if there be any such, which are not troubled when death approacheth: But are they stronger than Christ? Who will so say, though he were never so mad? What is it then that Christ was troubled (therewith) but because by the voluntary show of his weakness he did comfort those that were weak in his body, which is his Church: that if any of his were troubled with the approaching of death, they should in spirit behold him, lest thinking themselves by this (fearfulness) to be reprobates, they should be swallowed up with a worse death of desperation? And elsewhere with admiration of Christ's goodness for this very cause; 
m Idem in johannem tract. 52.  O Lord (saith he) God above us, Man for us, I acknowledge thy mercy; for in that thou being so great, wouldst of thy love be voluntarily troubled (by 
n Ibidem.  taking the affection of thy members) thou dost comfort many in thy body (the Church) which are necessarily troubled with this their infirmity, lest by despairing they should perish. So that neither of these ways Martyrs nor Malefactors are stronger than Christ, though he feared death, which you imagine they do not: but Christ either in respect of his Father's ordinance against sin showed that conflict with death in himself, which the souls of all men have naturally, be they Martyrs or Malefactors, before they depart their bodies; or else of mercy towards us he would voluntarily assume our weakness in the Garden, lest we should despair, when we feel the stroke and terror of death, as by his example on the cross he led us to immovable patience and confidence in all our afflictions.  
Some Malefactors (you say) despise death, & often smile in their torments.] Being hardened in their sins, and obstinate against God, they may have either stupefaction of sense by Satan's means, to encourage others to the like wickedness by their contempt of death; or else obduration in their mischief, till the time of repentance be past; but their souls, that so stiffly contemn God's judgements, have another manner of terror before they forsake their bodies, when indeed it is too late for want of sense and memory to call for grace. And the Martyrs themselves, as all good Christians that are resolved not only quietly to suffer, but to desire death, that they may be with Christ, are by God's grace preserved in that mind so long as understanding and faith prevail; but when the powers of the soul are overwhelmed by the violent pains and pangs of death, she is by God's ordinance in all mankind, and even in the 
All feel the sting of death which Christ expressed before 〈◊〉 aid.  faithful suffered to feel the touch and sting of bodily death, which is fully known to none, but to God that ordained it, and to herself that feeleth it; though this agony of death be shortened or succoured, as pleaseth God of his mercy to dispose in every man: and in Gods elect this anguish, though it be very sharp for the time, turneth to their good and his glory; God supporting and comforting the souls of his Saints with hope of a better life. Your reasons therefore are all idle and impertinent, which you draw from the patience of Martyrs, or stiffness of Malefactors. For admitting all that to be true, which Martyrs by grace, and Malefactors of pertinacy perform in their torments, whiles strength and memory serve them, yet have they both their conflicts with death, when they can neither speak nor express what they feel, and malefactors a most fearful confusion, when repentance being past, which they neglected, their souls are now suffered to see the terrors and torments of hell, into which they shall presently depart. And this natural anguish of death, which assaulteth all men, when the soul feeleth the strangeness and bitterness of her divorce from the body, Christ might purposely ●…uffer to arise in himself in the Garden, that tasting it with perfect sense and memory, he might sustain it with greater patience and obedience (though it were very painful) than all mankind besides.  

o Defenc. pag. 101. li. 20.  All your answer is, malefactors are no fit comparison for the son of God: for they are desperate not having any fear or care of God, till they feel the force of his wrath in hell fire. What an answer is this?] The answer is ●…itter and fuller, than your wit serveth you to understand, or your learning to refute. For this ignorant or desperate contempt of God's judgement, which you allege in malefactors, Christ might not follow; since he rightly discerned, and religiously feared God's displeasure against sin even in the death inflicted on the body of man. So that Christ showed an humble regard of God's punishment with due fear and sorrow, which impenitent thieves and murderers neglect till it be to late; and yet when he came to the very suffering of death on the Cross, his silence and patience far exceeded both malefactors and martyrs. The cause of your error is this, that you ascribe that to weakness of heart and want of strength in Christ, which he of humility to God & mercy to his members voluntarily admitted in himself to comfort and strengthen the weak, which are not able to imitate his perfection of patience on the cross. 
p Leo de Passione Domini serm. 7.  In our baseness (saith Leo) Christ was despised, he sorrowed in our heaviness, and was crucified in our pain. For of mercy he took unto him the passion of our mortality to this end, that he might heal it, and his power admitted it, that he might conquer it. All things in him were full of mysteries and full of miracles. 
q Bernard serm.  Agnosco planè in duce belli 〈◊〉 trepidationem, agnosco agroti vocem in medico, agnosco infirmantem gallinam cum pullis: confidero charitatem, stupeo miserationem, 
1. de S. 〈◊〉.  expavesco dignationem: I plainly see (saith Bernard citing Christ's prayer in the garden) in the captain of the field the fear of weaklings, I see in the Physician the voice of the sick, I see the hen weak with cherishing her young ones: I consider the love (of Christ) I am even amazed at his mercy, and I tremble to see what he vouchsafed (for us.)  

r Defenc. pag. 102 li. 1●….  To leave these and come to the patience of Martyrs in their sufferings. It is admirable what joy, what peace, what triumph they show in the midst of a thousand most strange and bucherly torments, no less, if not greater in outward show then the sufferings of our Saviour Christ.] It is far more admirable in our saviour Christ, that he would be weak for 
As Christ would be weak to comfort the weak in the Garden, so was be stronger than the strongest on the Crosse.  their sakes, that were weak, when it pleased him before his passion, and strong for their example, whom he would make strong, when he came to the height of his sufferings; and by either as well weakness as strength, teach us in both to depend on him, and not to exalt ourselves against him or afore him, as you do Martyrs with your manifold terms and torments. And have not Martyrs think you, before they depart this life, as great conflicts with the pains and horror of death, as Christ had any, though the wisdom of God reserve the natural sting of death till the soul fecle her bodily senses and powers overwhelmed, and herself violently forced to forsake her seat, in which case she would utterly faint, if she were not supported by the secret goodness of God, and taken from that conflict in her body by the hands of Angels to be brought with joy to the presence of God? 
s Cyprianus de Passione Domini.  That fear of Christ's (in the garden saith Cyprian) expressed the common affection of man's infirmity; and the generality of all men that live in the flesh, to be urged with this sorrow, and that the dissolution of the soul and the body cannot want this grief. Martyrs you suppose want this grief, or willingly endure it, but you are deceived in either of these as in all things else. 
t August in johannem tract. 123.  Si nulla esset mortis, vel parva molestia, non esset tam magna martyrum gloria. If there were no pain, or but small pain in death, the glory of martyrs would not be so great, saith Austen. And again. 
u 〈◊〉 de civitate 〈◊〉. li. 13. ca 11.  Tam mol●…sta (mors) est, ut nulla explicari locutione possit, nec ulla ratione vitari. So pairfull is death, that it can by no words be expressed, nor by no means avoided. 
x Bernard. de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  Quid horribilius morte? in morte tam dulce carnis & animae vinculum amarissimo secandum erit divortio. What is more horrible (saith Bernard) than death? in death the union of body and soul, which is so sweet, shallbe severed with a most bitter divorce. But martyrs you think are willing to endure it; they find as much unwillingness in nature, as they fiind readiness in faith, or desire in hope; save that in them necessity worketh obedience. 
y August. de 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. serm 32.  mortem horret non opinio sed natura. It is nature (saith Austen) not opinion, that abhorreth death. Quis enim vult mori? prorsus nemo, & it a nemo, ut beato Petro diceretur, alter te cinget & feret 
z Ibidem sermone. 33.  quo tu non vis. Who will die by his will? utterly no man, and so certainly no man, that it was said (by Christ) to Peter, another shall gird thee and lead thee whither thou wouldst not, when he went even to martyrdom. Death therefore by God's ordinance hath in it a sting repugnant to man's nature, which all men, even martyrs themselves do feel, & when the pain is so great, that it passeth both their strength and their patience, the force thereof severeth their souls from their bodies; albeit in Gods Elect all things turn to their good, this agony of death not excepted, in which God supporteth them whiles they have sense, that they despair not, and after some conflict with death, taketh their souls from them, now joyful that they are delivered, and shall be presented to the Throne of Grace. This Christ alone of all men was able exactly to know and feel in himself before and without the pangs of death; not that he was weaker than Martyrs, but that all the godly might assure themselves he tasted even the sharpness of death, to which they are subject, and is able and willing to sustain us, and save us in the natural conflict and horror of death, as he did himself.  

a Defenc. pag. 103. h. 2.  All this other godly men do also suffer and feel, which they take passing joyfully and quietly.] Who told you that there is joy and rest in the pangs of death? Have the gates 
job. 38.  of death been opened to you? or hath any of the dead certified you, what 〈◊〉 there is in ●…euering the soul from the body? Did God punish Adam's disobedience with joy 
Martyr's 〈◊〉 joy 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 death, but not in death.  and ease? or doth nature abhor pleasure? True it is, the godly ought not to be dismayed with the fear of death, since it is God that woundeth and healeth, killeth and quickeneth, bringeth to hell and bringeth back again; but they must acknowledge death to be God's punishment on Adam's sin, and the straightest gate, that leadeth to heaven. 
b 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  This punishment (saith Cyprian) was laid on all Adam's offspring without exception, that the difficulty of the last passage (out of this life) should be feared. Hanc nemo anxietatem evasit, & nemo egrediente anima sine amaritudine expiravit. This grief n●… man hath ever escaped, nor any ever breathed out his soul without bitterness. And Martyrs no doubt do, or should privately in their prayers to God, see the sharpness of death in respect of their strength, and confess the justness of this punishment laid on all men for sin; and so with all religious fear and most earnest prayer to God for his assistance and defence against the terror of death, approach their ends; though the cause for which they die should comfort them, and make them cheerful in the eyes of all their adversaries, when they have first given God his due, and reposed themselves on his heavenly protection. Even so did Christ teach us by his example, who to his Father in the Garden confessed the natural horror of death, which he would feel, and felt for our sakes; and after to his persecutors showed no such thing, but readily met them, willingly offered himself to them, and patiently endured whatsoever pain they heaped on him. 
c Cyprianus de Passione Domini.  Latens in humanitate omnipotentiate Discipulis pavidum, coram per secutoribus terribilem exhibebat. Omnipotency covered in man's nature, sho●…ed thee fearful to thy Disciples, and terrible to thy persecutors, saith Cyprian of Christ. When Christ was carried bound to the Precedent, he was not suppliant to the Sergeants, yea, he despised: he greatness of Herod and Pilate, & de impietate & malitia suavitas pietasque Christi triumphant, and the mildness and godliness of Christ triumphed over the malice and wickedness (of his persecutors.)  

d Defenc. pag. 102. li 26.  You answer, if death be not fearful to the servants of Christ, they are the more bound to their Lord and Master, who was the first that by death disarmed death, and severed death and hell. What is this to our reason?] Enough, and more than enough, if your captious head would conceive it right. For Christ took from death all destroying power over the Elect, and from them all amazed and confounding fear, which others find in death; and so not only by his example taught them to resort to God with prayer for comfort against the terror of death, but by his agony enabled them to go securely and quietly to their deaths, notwithstanding the horror thereof; since he will help them in the midst of that misery, and receive them with glory, when others think them swallowed up with death.  

e Defenc. pag. 103. li. 10.  By breaking the knot betwixt death & hell, he could not be so woefully affected & afflicted above measure as he was, if he did not suffer by them somewhat extraordinarily. Unto 
Christ might feel somewhat extraordinary, yet not the pains of hell.  this you have nothing to answer.] Are the pains of hell & the death of the damned come now to SOMEWHAT EXTRAORDINARY? here may the Reader see the very depth of all your new doctrine. It was SOMEWHAT, that Christ SUFFERED or FEARED in the Garden: ergo it was the second death and the pains of the damned. All your idle and erroneous illations and amplifications of martyrs and malefactors end now in SOMEWHAT, if you could tell what; and because you know not what it was, you will imagine what you list. I do not doubt, but it was somewhat extraordinary, that moved Christ to this fear, sorrow, and intentive Prayer after comfort received from heaven by an Angel; although I dare not determine, what it was, which the Scriptures do not express; much less presume it to be the second death, as you do against the Scriptures, or frame a new hell of the damned, for Christ's soul to pay our ransom, thereby to cross the whole course of the word of God teaching and assuring us the blood of Christ was the price of our Redemption. I see many things extraordinary, or rather nothing wholly ordinary in the son of God, specially at the time of our redemption, which he alone for the innocency and excellency of his person, and power could, and did thoroughly perform. Yea even in his agony though some things might be common to him with man, yet none of those things could be sustained by any man, as they were by him. And therefore your somewhat betrayeth your presumption, when thence you infer what you best like, because the Scripture hath not acquainted you with every secret affection or action, that was required in man's salvation.  

g Defenc. pag. 103. li 22.  It was not therefore that only, but some other death far more dreadful and intolerable, which made Christ man, (being also God) in such wise to tremble and quake.] I hope you do not mean, that Christ's godhead trembled at your other death, or was subject to any human fears or miseries, nor that your other death was so dreadful, that his divine power could not keep him from trembling and quaking at it. It was no small part of Christ's obedience and humility to lay aside his strength, when he suffered for our sins, and not by power to resist, repulse or ease the pains, which his passion should bring; but with exact sense to feel it, and with wonderful patience to endure it. Neither was it no part of Christ's purpose by his sorrow and fear in the Garden to give us to understand, that he would use no power, which he might easily have done, to diminish the vehemency or sense of the pains prepared for him; lest his so saving himself from smart by his secret power should delude God's justice, impair his love to us, and put us in despair of following his example; since we had no power to succour ourselves, as we might imagine of him, had he not by natural and evident signs of true fear and sorrow confirmed unto us, that he felt his afflictions, as much as we do ours, and will help our infirmity, and ease our misery, though he would not spare himself. So that hence a good Christian would collect Christ's submission to the weakest degree of man's infirmity, and his communion with us in tasting the sharpest of our sorrows, and not exaggerate his power to make him capable of the second death, 
g revel. 21.  which is the lake burning with fire and brimstone, as the Scriptures affirm; and consequent, not antecedent to the first death, as you dream in Christ's case, besides that the 
h revel. 14.  smoke of their torments (which are cast into this lake) ascendeth evermore, and they have no rest night nor day.  

i Defenc. pag. 103. li. 25.  Indeed Christ had far greater cause (as you say) to fear even his bodily death, than any of his members have. For it was therefore because death approached unto him clasped fast with hell, so that he could not by the ordinance of God meddle with the one, but he must feel the other.] My words enlarged and perverted by you may seem to make some music for you, but of themselves they are true, and no way touch your vntuned and high strained crotchets. That Christ must and did break the knot betwixt death and hell, which otherwise were fast clasped together, and by receiving the one in his own person did free all his members from the other, is no question neither with me, nor I think with any Christian man. The just vengeance deserved and prepared for sin, which was temporal and eternal death, the Redeemer must thoroughly know lest he should ransom us he could not tell from what. Wherefore not your new found hell, but the wages of our sin, which was eternal death, usually called hell in the Scriptures, might not be hid from the e●…es of Christ; but even the just and full reward of our iniquities was to be presented to the sight and spirit of the Redeemer, that in the presence of God he might behold the weight of our sin, the greatness and justness of God's anger against it, and accordingly conceive how dear the price, and how sharp the pain must be, that should quit us from this debt, and yet how precious his person, and infinite his obedience was, that by one death should excuse us from the other. Whether these things were revealed and showed to Christ by sight, as the terrors and torments of hell might be; or by vision, or in spirit, I dare not pronounce; I meddle not so far with God's secrets: God hath ways enough to propose the judgemets of the next world to men here living, when and how pleaseth him; but of none of these might Christ be ignorant, lest we make him a Saviour at peradventures, as not knowing all things, that directly belonged to his office, and sacrifice, and to the causes & effects of our Redemption. That therefore Christ must have a perfect knowledge and lively sight and view of all these things pertaining to the weight and burden of man's deliverance, chiefly now when he appeared in God's judgement, (where nothing is covered) to perform the fame, I may safely grant; but that he felt or suffered eternal death, or the pains of the damned, or the full wages of our sins, this you shall never prove, how much soever you presume with licentious but irreligious words to cover it, and convey it into the Creed of Christians.  

k Defenc. pag. 103. li. 29.  He did not contemplate and look on them a far of, nor had to do with one more than the other, but by suffering one he felt both, and by enduring one he endured both.] Your speeches are false, absurd, and impious, howsoever you will qualify them, when you come to the point, with the substances, but not with the circumstances of eternal death and damnation. First, show that the Scripture teacheth any such thing of Christ 
The Defender forgeth apace new parts of the Christian faith.  as that he suffered the second death, or the pains of the damned. Next, that your device of this new second death, which dureth but for a moment, and proceedeth from Gods own hand agreeth with the word of God. And Thirdly, that God did thus torment the soul of his son with his immediate hand, either in the garden, or on the cross. All these things are your own dreams plainly plastered to the Christian faith with figures and phrases of your own coining; and yet you think you have wrong, if you be not suffered to change the whole Creed, and outface the Scriptures with your idle fancies. That Christ should and did suffer a bodily death on the cross, the Prophets did forshew, the Evangelists do witness, and the Apostles do confirm. That he died the second death in the garden before the first, or that this death came to him by fits, and dured but the turning of an hand, and was inflicted on his soul by God's immediate hand, as the other death was on his body by the jews, what Prophet, what Evangelist, what Apostle did ever teach or write? And how hang your own words with your own conceits? by suffering the one, Christ felt both, (you say) and by enduring the one he endured both.] Then in the Garden, when as yet he suffered not the death of the body, he felt not your second death; and Gods immediate hand did cease, if by the one, which the jews inflicted he endured both. If you fly to Christ's fearing and apprehending the second death by the first; then are you far from his suffering and enduring it; and this apprehension, which was not erroneous in Christ, as it is in you, might offer him a fear of God's power, which is more infinite, than the manhood of Christ could comprehend, and so might be terrible to him, as it is to all the godly when they find or feel God's anger against sin; but it could breed no persuasion, or distrust, that God would destroy him for our sins, since he perfectly knew God would save us by his sufferings.  

l Defenc. pag. 104. li.  Also you forget my argument: that Christ always charged his Disciples not to take their bodily death heavily for righteousness sake. ergo he himself would never be so dismáyed with the fear of it.] As I did not profess in my conclusion to refute all your follies, which were both trifling and tedious, so if I had purposed any such thing, I should have skipped this, as an argument rather of your ignorance and vanity, than of any force or verity. For first, where did I defend in my Sermons, that Christ's bodily death was the cause of this agony? reckon my six causes on your finger's ends, if your memory be so fickle, that refuting them you can not tell what they are, and see whether Christ's bodily death be any of them or no; if it be none, how doth this argument conclude any thing against me, who show so many things, which might concur in Christ's fear, besides his bodily death? Wherefore your conclusion, if it were good, is no way prejudicial to me, nor beneficial to your hell pains. For though Christ feared somewhat else, there is a large leap between somewhat else, and the death of the damned. But what was it that Christ willed his Disciples to fear? 
Christ teacheth all his to fear God's power, as himself did in the garden.  God's purpose meaning to condemn Christians to hell, or his power, that was able to destroy soul and body in hell? Did Christ teach in these words a desperation of God's favour, or submission under the mighty hand of God, and a religious fear not to displease him? To fear religiously, not distrustfully Gods power, since they were persuaded of God's goodness whom Christ calleth his friends, and so not to provoke him, considering the mightiness of his arm, is the sum of Christ's doctrine in that place; as God himself by the Prophet Esay taught all the faithful, saying; 
m Esa. 8.  Sanctify the Lord of hosts, and let him be your fear●… and let him be your dread. A deep impression of this fear commended to all the Elect, whiles here they live, Christ himself might have and show in the Garden, and be far from doubting his own salvation and our redemption. So that Christ's words do no way touch your new device of hell pains, except by contradicting it. For where Christ said, 
n Luke 12. v. 4.  I speak to you my friends, 
o vers. 5.  I will forewarn you whom you shall fear, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, fear him that hath power, AFTER HE HATH KILLED, to cast into hell: you contrary to Christ's words avouch, that God first cast Christ's soul into hell in the Garden, and after killed his body on the cross, where God's course is, as Christ observeth, after he hath killed, to cast into hell, or Gehenna, where the pains of the damned are. And so where Christ maketh the second death of the damned to come after the death of the body, you make in Christ and all his members the second death to go before the first, which is a gross oversight as well against order as against truth; save that your conceits have neither order, weight nor measure.  

p Defenc. pag. 104. li. 11.  Here you have a notable saying in the margin, which must not be forgotten, we must prefer Christ's sufferings before all Martyrs, not for his pains, but for his Patience. Not for his pains, but for his Patience? A rare distinction: If you could make us believe, that the greatest patience is tried and discerned, where the smallest pains are, than you said somewhat.] The margin will prove you fit to play with a feather, and willing to embrace a babble before a better thing. Do my words there import or intend, that Christ's pains were less than the pains of Martyrs? Having said before as much as I thought good, touching the comparison of Christ's pains with other men's, I observed here that Christ's patience in suffering far passed theirs, whatsoever we resolved of his pains. My words were. 
q Sermo. pa. 7. li. 10.  Longer torments others have endured, but never greater for the time, nor with like patience. This, as your manner is, you overskip, and where I refuse a needless contention, what kinds of pains are sharpest here on earth, but avouch Christ's patience far exceeded the tolerance of Martyrs, whatsoever 
Christ's patience was greater than any man's whatsoever his pains were.  his pains did; you neither remember what I before avouched, nor what these words infer, but make yourself merry with your own folly. We must prefer, I said, Christ's sufferings before all Martyrs, not for his pains, (the exact degree whereof I know not) but for his patience. Doth this hinder, but that Christ's pains were equal to any Martyr's sufferings, though I took not upon me to make them sharper, than all the pains, that ever were felt on earth? My words before were plain enough, greater torments for the time others never endured: And if such a Wyer-drawer, as you are; would go to cafling, which is the sharpest kind of pain, it pertained not much to the purpose, there could be. no question, but Christ's patience in his extreme pains did far excel all men's. Indeed you little regard his patience, for you put him in a maze all confounded and all astonished, where neither obedience nor patience could have any place: and as for pains you will none other, but the pains of the damned, which pass the patience of men and Angels. Wherefore that I would make men believe, the greatest patience is tried in the smallest pains, is a buzzardly device of your own, and howsoever I would not contend, whether Christ's pains were the sharpest that ever were suffered on earth, yet I before resolved his pains to be as great, as any man's ever were in this mortal body, and his patience to be far greater and painfuller to him. The reasons whereof I gave before in my Sermons, though your course be to leap over what you list, and to meddle with no more than you may entertain with a wrist or a jest.  
The eminence of Christ's patience above all Martyrs I showed to consist in these two points; in exacter sense, and perfecter obedience at the time of his sufferings, than any man ever had, or could have. For in others the more violent the tortures, the sooner they overwhelm the sense, and hasten death; but in Christ (whatsoever you dream to the contrary) there was no confusion, nor corruption of sense; rather when his pains were sharpest, and himself weakest; then was his sense as tender, if not tenderer than at any time before. Again in others, even in Martyrs, when pain doth pass their strength, the Soul struggleth and striveth to repel or avoid the pain, which when she cannot conquer, nor resist, she departeth the body. In Christ it was otherwise; when the sharpness of pain most fiercely assaulted him, than did his obedience and patience rise to the highest degree. So that nothing in him refused or declined the bitterness of his pains, nor so much as repined or shrunk at it, but to the uttermost he put himself with all submission and patience advisedly, obediently, and quietly to bear, and endure the greatest rage and excess of his intolerable torments, which no man's strength or nature can perform. And this I trust toucheth the trial and proof of Christ's patience, and not the inward habit, as you call it; not so much as understanding, that my words concern the use, and not the gift of Christ's patience. And if I would interpret my words, as you did Saint Austin's a little before, when they contained contraries, not consequents, as mine do, and so say, Christ's sufferings must be preferred before all Martyrs, not for pains (only,) but for patience also, since there could be no use of patience in Christ without pains: then by your own interpretation, which in things consequent is very requisite, you have flown fair, and seized on a Butterfly.  

r Defenc. pag. 104. li. 28.  By this also we may see how vain your next conjecture is, that he feared in his Agony corporal castigation above his strength. For why may not Martyrs and others fear as much crùeltie and extraordinary torments at the hands of men, as Christ had cause to do?] You have an habit of understanding nothing besides that, which no man understandeth besides yourself. When I tell you that another thing 
s Sermo. pag. 24. li. 18.  which Christ might justly fear and earnestly pray against, (though his soul were never so safe, from the pains of the damned) was the power of God's wrath to be executed on his body: 
t li. 22.  for God was armed with infinite vengeance to afflict and punish the body about that the human flesh of Christ was able to endure: You answer, why may not martyrs fear as much at men's ●…andes. Wisely forsooth, and as much to the purpose as chalk to make cheese. Why should not Martyrs fear the power of men against their bodies, as much as Christ feared the power of God against his body? If you see not the cause, ask one of the children that dwelleth at next house to you, if they have learned to know God from men, and they will readily tell you; though my words were full enough, but that your head was so empty, as not to see what I said. God I said, was armed with infinite vengeance to afflict the body above that the human flesh of Christ was able to endure. Are men so armed as God is, even in this life? I trow not, and therefore are not so to be feared.  

u Defenc. pag 104 li. 32.  Why should the fear of any whatsoever mere bodily pains, overcome Christ's patience?] Even therefore because it was human, and weak in respect of God, and far unable to bear that, which God could impose. [Are not martyrs as far unable?] Yes far less able, whether it be the hand of God, or of man, which they must feel. [Why then are not they as much afraid?] Of God's power they are, when and wheresoever showed unto them, or duly considered by them. As Moses when God 
x Exo. 19 v. 16.  lightened and thundered on mount Sinai before the delivering of the Law, 
y Heb. 12. v. 21 Why Christ feared more than martyrs do.  feared and trembled by the Apostles report, as well as the rest of the people. And as for the rage of men, Martyr's first know, that God's wrath towards them is appeased by Christ jesus, and therefore they shall feel no more but the hands of men. Secondly, that as the cruelty of human tortures increaseth, so God either assisteth his servants by diminishing the bitterness of their pains, or suffereth their strength or sense to be overwhelmed by the fury of their torments, in which case the soul though impatient of such pain doth not sin, because the violence is greater than man's strength can endure, and thereby driveth the soul from the body. With Christ it was otherwise. For where he was to bear our sins in his body, and had power sufficient in himlefe to decline or frustrate all that men could do unto him, when he would; he was to see that God's hand might join with the jews rage for the punishments of our sins in his flesh; and that the sharper the anguish, which he should feel, the exacter the sense thereof which he must have, and yet must still continue the perfection of his obedience and patience; since no violence of torments, were they never so intolerable, might overwhelm his sense, or force his soul from his body, but he must expect the time appointed by his Father, when he should in full sense and memory breath out his soul at an instant, as I have formerly showed. He might therefore fear as well the violence, as the continuance of his pains (far more than Martyrs need) if he did not deprecate the power of God's wrath deserved by our sins, to be eased even in his body, where he bore our sins. For God was and is able to aggravate bodily pains far above the strength of man's nature in us or in Christ, without means, or by means whatsoever. So that Christ desiring this cup, which he now beheld (for THIS doth demonstrate somewhat conceived in the cup, which he declined) should pass from him, might have this meaning, that the cup should pass from him, and not oppress his patience, because his flesh was but weak to bear that hea●…ie burden in his body, which our sins provoked; and was heard, as the Apostle noteth of this prayer in the garden, and eased of that he seared.  
Christ knew all things, you will say, that should befall him.] Then he also knew, what his prayer would avert of that punishment which our sins deserved: and since it is evident, that greater torments both of soul and body were due to us fo●… our sin, as we find by the damned, who are in the same desert with us, though not partakers of the same mercy with us: why should not Christ by his prayer, which he knew God would hear, decline what he disliked in the cup of God's wrath mixed for the sins of men, and yet submit and commit himself, after prayer made, wholly to the will of God his father?  

z Defenc. pag. 105. li. 1.  If you mean that he felt greater (pains) concurring in and with the bodily punishment inflicted by the wrathful hand of God armed with infinite vengeance, than you say well, and we acknowledge it.] If I will mistake fearing for suffering, and bodily for ghostly pains, and the cross for hell, and make Gods immediate hand a pretence for all these devices, as you do, than I say well, as you suppose; but if I make the power of God able to afflict for sin the Body or Soul of man above all human strength without the pains of the damned; and Christ justly to fear the power of God's wrath, if he did not by earnest and humble prayer pacify God's indignation for as much as exceeded the weakness and patience of his manhood, than my conjectures are vain, though they never so well agree with the rules of religion and piety. But in this you do, as all Sectaries are wont to acknowledge no sincerity, but in their own secrets. 
a August. contra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 li. 11 cap. 2.  Tues ergo regula veritatis? quicquid contra te facit non est verum? Are you then the rule of truth? and whatsoever is against you, is that not true?  

b Defenc. pag. 105. li. 4.  Your other cause is, for that by death his Body should want awhile the feeling of God's presence. But did not Christ perfectly know that this was God's decree and certain appointment, yea his own most free will and purpose?] He that once hath undertaken to wrench the Scriptures from their right sense, will never stick to wrangle with all the world, as long as brain, or breath will give him leave. Often enough if that would serve, you have been told, that I produced not those four points, on which you last insisted, as causes of Christ's agony, but as respects of his fearing, disliking, and shunning bodily death; against which you say nothing, but that he could not, he would not so fear it, as to sweat blood for it. Which silliness, if not sottishness, still to impugn that, which I do not affirm, and to post over the rest as pertinent to Christ's perfection and holiness, and so no part of his sufferings, is the best ground of your defence: but take any of these four points, which you so much mislike, and refer them rightly to the end, for which I brought them, or any of the former five causes concurring to Christ's agony, and speak directly and truly to any one of them, and you shall be excused for all the rest. But being not able to refute one of them in sound and upright reasoning. All your shift is, to misapply the respects of Christ's declining death, as if I made them causes of his agony; and to single the causes, which I avouch might all meet in Christ's fear and sorrow in the Garden, as sole and singular efficients of his whole agony. With this childish Art you have almost waded by them, not denying, as indeed you cannot, that they were then before Christ's eyes, when he feared and sorrowed in the Garden, but that either they were no new things to him, or else parts of his righteousness and holiness. Both which Answers are very idle. For your hell pains, if that were part of his Passion, were no more news to his foresight then the rest; and all Christ's sufferings even of your hell pains (if that conceit had any truth in it) were parts of his obedience and patience, as well as his suffering of fear and sorrow, or of bodily death. Wherefore these be but strains and starts to make your Reader believe you have somewhat to say, when indeed your oppositions are so sleight, that they bewray how gladly you would, and how hardly you can distress any of these causes, which I said might concur in Christ's Agony. They all were weighty and godly respects impressing no small degrees of fear, sorrow, care and zeal on the Soul of Christ, and directly pertinent to the work of our redemption now in hand. And where you shift them of as parts of Christ's habitual holiness always resting in him, know you good Sir, that I speak not in this case of the permanent gifts of grace always inherent in Christ's Soul, but of the painful impressions, which those respects did therefore now presently and sensibly make on the Soul of Christ more than at other times, because they came now to execution, which before were but in cogitation, & by religious and humble prayer, he was now to settle the whole course, force, & effects of his sufferings.  

c Defenc. pag. 105. li. 10.  Call you this greater perfection in him than in other men, to pray expressly against the known will of his Father, yea against his own?] That Christ prayed against the known will of his Father, is an irreligious and dangerous dream of yours. This Toy you trump in every where, as if it were some choice Answer, and yet this empty reason maketh as much against you, as against me, if there were any weight in it. For if Christ did suffer the pains of the damned according to your device, was it not his Fathers known will he should so do, yea and his own also? How then do the pains of hell excuse him from praying against his Fathers known will? [he was so amazed therewith, you will say, that he knew not what he did.] Christ must then be wholly deprived of all understanding, if he neither remembered his Father's will, nor his own, nor our salvation, for whose sake he was content to suffer. And how then came he so suddenly in the very next syllable to remember himself, and his Fathers will? [He was now freed, you will say, from that astonishment.] How fell he then thrice into it? [he had so many touches of hell pains, which must needs confound all the powers and parts of his body.] Then all the time of his apprehension, examination, condemnation and crucifixion he felt no such thing, since the Gospels bear witness, that he wisely, religiously, constantly, carefully, and every way admirably behaved himself in each word and deed after to the instant of his death; and remembered all things that were written of him. Is not here a fine mockery, which is the fortress of all your hidden mysteries; that to prove your hell pains, you must bring Christ into three such fits and pangs of confusion and oblivion, that he knew not what he said, or did; & presently with the speaking of (YET) to restore him again to his perfect sense and memory, and so to free him from all your new devised Passions? besides yourselves, no writer old nor new did ever find in Christ's prayer, that he knew not what he said; and the condition added before his prayer, 
d Luke. 22.  Father, if thou wilt, take away this Cup from me; and the submission following with the same breath, yet not my will, but thine be done, do plainly prove that Christ had exact remembrance and regard of his father's will, besides that the Apostle affirmeth of this prayer, that Christ 
e Heb. 5.  was heard, in that he feared. So that if this be all the Scripture you can produce for your hell pains, I protest before God and his whole Church, I will sooner believe that you were out of your wits in writing this, then that Christ was forgetful in praying that, which he spoke in the Garden.  

f Defenc. pag. 105. li. 10.  Again could this thing in any reason be such an horrible grief unto him; to have his flesh lie dead for a day and a few hours, would the thought of this make him sweat blood for grief, and to need an Angel from heaven to comfort him, and to pray three times vehemently, this cup might pass from him? verily it is unreasonable to thinkeso. Who hath bewitched you thus openly and usually to fasten on untruths? I alleged six causes that might 〈◊〉 in Christ's agony, you have piked out of my words four more than ever I meant to be reasons of his bloody sweat, and are nine of these now puffed away with a breath, and nothing left by your swelling and insulting eloquence, but the deadness of Christ's body, whiles the soul wanted? this it is for a man to trust to his tongue, when his teeth be gone; and to bleat, when he cannot bite. If the cause were not Gods, it might be thought a pastime thus to feign and face; but in so serious questions to use such idle and false imputations and frivolous refutations, is a grief to any good man's ears and a corrosive to his conscience. Of Christ's agony, and the causes that might occasion his fear, his sorrow, and his zeal in the garden I have said so much that I am weary with repeating, though you be never weary with resuming the self same childish and erroneous mistaking. The reason of my speech is plain and evident, howsoever you take the course rather to misreport it, then refute it. For if the souls of God's saints do by nature unwillingly leave their bodies to which they are united, though by them they are often molested and burdened; (otherwise death were no punishment of sin, but a sign of Gods far our which is nothing so) how far juster cause than was there, Christ should naturally dislike death not only because it was a subversion of nature created, & quickened by God, and an effect of God's displeasure against sin imposed on all men; but also for that it should during the time deprive him of life, sense and action with great slander and infamy, and chiefly should exclude for a season his body from that blessed communion and fruition of his divine grace and glory, which formerly it felt, though the personal union should not be dis●…olued? now the more Christ liked and loved that adherence to God, which he living enjoyed, the more grievous was the want thereof, which death took from him for the time, though it were after restored with greater glory. This I did not put for the cause of his agony, as you idly amplify, but noted it as a respect, that might worthily lead Christ to dislike or abhor death in respect of his perfection and communion with God above all men and Angels, save for the will of his father, and the good of man, which overruled this dislike in him.  

g Defence pag. 105 li 22.  You say excellent well, but by your practice in all matters so far as I see, you never mean to observe it: in God's cause let God's book teach us, what to believe, and what to profess. show me then where you read in God's word any or all these to be effectual causes of this strange 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 my part I shall never believe you.] If I did profess to bind men's faiths to these causes of Christ's agony, as you do to your new redemption by the pains of the damned, I would show you where I red them in the word of God, or else I would leave ●…ch believer to his liberty: but I forewarned all men, that the Scriptures directly and particularly speaking nothing of the causes of Christ's agony, the safest rule that I could find, or they could follow, was not to depart from any known and received grounds of Religion and principles of piety for the causes thereof. For since the Scriptures keep silence, and our Saviour himself would not show it to all his Disciples, but chose three from the rest to go with him, and took the dark time of the night, and left those three (whose eyes were so heavy that they could not for●…eare sleep) about a stones cast before he would pray, because he would not have th●…m 〈◊〉 to all that he said, or did in that place, I see no reason why any man should be over curious in searching that, which the word of God hath not precisely revealed, specially seeing no demonstrative cause can be given of secret affections and voluntary actions, such as these were in Christ. And your audacious and presumptuous boldness is the more chalengeable, for that you not only take upon you to give the right and exact cause thereof out of your own brain, but you light on such a cause, as hath no foundation in any part of the Scripture, nor any coherence with the main positions of the Christian faith unfalliblely delivered in the word of God. Wherefore I have not transgressed my directions, when I teach what just and weighty respects of fear, sorrow & zeal our Lord & Saviour had in the work of our redemption; which might be the causes of that earnest prayer & agony, and withal showed the judgements and opinions of divers ancient and learned Fathers concerning the same; but you as insolent in your conclusions, as in your conceits, take upon you to specify the full and true cause thereof, for which you have no show of Scriptures, nor touch of reason. And such is the cause which you yield, that thereby you cross the chief streams of faith and truth most currant in the sacred Scriptures, and with all learned and religious antiquity. The same rule then binding you, which bindeth me, show you, what Prophet, Evangelist, or Apostle ever taught or thought the pains of the damned to be inflicted on Christ's soul in the Garden by God's immediate hand, and that without the pains of hell we could not be 〈◊〉; or else my not believing you will not excuse your enterprise; you must answer to God, and to all the faithful, for innovating the very roots and branches of their redemption by the blood and death of Christ jesus, which you avouch to be unsufficient for the ransom of our sins, except your hell be thereto added, when the Holy Ghost, who should best know the truth, being the spirit of truth, hath expressed no such thing in all the Scriptures.  

h Defence pag. 105. li. 32.  Your sixth and last main cause is, that Christ by this his bloody sweat and 〈◊〉 prayers did nothing but voluntarily perform that bloody offering and Priesthood 〈◊〉 in the Law. This we simply grant.] If you should truly repeat and conceive any part 
The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agony.  of my writings, you should put yourself to more pains, than you are willing to take, justly to refute it. Wherefore your course is either to misrecite, or to misconstrue all that you bring. In the oblations of the Law, which prefigured the death of Christ, I observed, that not only the Sacrifice was slain by the shedding of blood, but that the person of the Priest was sanctified, as well as the sinner presented by the Priest to God with earnest and humble prayer to make atonement for the trespass. And since the truth must have some resemblance with the figure, Christ might in the Garden perform some points requisite to his Priesthood, as the sanctifying of himself with his own blood, and presenting his body to be the redemption and remission of our sins, with most instant and intentive prayer for the transgressors. This if you simply grant, as in words you say you do, tell us now which way you will conclude Christ's suffering of hell pains in the Garden from his bloody sweat? [It hindereth not our assertion. Much less doth it further it: but yet if there might be a cause of Christ's voluntary sprinkling himself with his own blood, and dedicating it to God's pleasure for man's redemption besides and without your hellish torments, you will come shorter than you reckon, to make good your conclusion.  

i Defenc. pag. 106.  The Scriptures which you cite, prove indeed that Christ now executed his office of Priesthood, but will you divide and exempt his death on the Cross from his Priesthood?] Who besides yourself restraineth Christ's everlasting Priesthood either to the garden or to the cross? But it was one thing for Christ with fervent and submissive prayer to present and submit his body, which was his Sacrifice, to the will of his Father, as he did in the garden; and another thing, to receive and admit the violent and wicked hands of the jews executing their rage on his body with all reproach and cruelty, as he did on the cross. Now what had his Priesthood to do with the pains of hell, since he was to present and perform the bloody sacrifice of his body prefigured in the Law, which he did in the garden, and on the cross? And forsomuch as you grant, that Christ's bloody sweat, and his vehement prayers in the garden were pertinents to his Priesthood prefigured in the Law, which indeed is 
k Hebr. 5.  confirmed by the Apostle, as you can show no figure of suffering hell pains or the second death in the sacrifices of the Law, no more doth either of these performed in the garden concern any secret death of the soul, which Christ there suffered from the immediate hand of God.  

l Defenc. pag. 106. li. 14.  Why say you not aswell, that his death and bloodshed on the Cross showed in him no pains nor infirmity, but only that voluntarily he made himself there the true Priest, and performed the prefigured bloody and deadly sacrifice for the sins of the world? As good reason altogether you have to say so, as to affirm it of his agony,] No by your leave: for Christ did not actually offer two sacrifices; the one ghostly, suffering the pains of hell in the garden, as you imagine; the other bodily and bloody, yielding himself to the death of the cross. 
m Heb. 〈◊〉. 14  With one oblation he hath made perfect for ever them, which are sanctified; 
n verse. 〈◊〉.  and we are sanctified by the offering of the body of jesus Christ once (made). This sacrifice was presented and submitted to Gods will in the garden, but finished and consummated on the Cross, which could not be without pains and infirmity belonging unto death. In the garden, where no Scripture saith Christ died, I admit not the second death nor the pains of the damned, which are thereto consequent. And where you say, I refuse all pains and infirmity in Christ's agony, it is one of your wont truths, which in another were an open lie. I admit not the pains of the damned, or of the second death, till you show where the scripture teacheth, that Christ suffered two deaths; the first on the Cross, and the second in the garden, and that afore the first. Otherwise painful affections of fear and sorrow, which were human infirmities, though voluntarily and religiously received by Christ into his soul, I every where acknowledge, and with Cyprian make them entrances to his oblation for the sins of the world. 
o 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  ut fieret voluntas Patris, & sacrificium carnis a timore & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, suberant victim desolatori●… carbones, quos obedientiae liquefactus adeps extinxit. 〈◊〉 t●…e will of the Father might be done, saith Cyprian and Christ begin the sacrifice of his flesh with fear and sorrow, consuming coals (of fear and sorrow in the garden) were pu●… under the sacrifice, which the sweet fatness of his obedience m●…lting did quench. So that Christ began the sacrifice of his body in the garden, offering that to be disposed at his father's will for the life of the world, and his entering to it was with fear and sorrow, the painfulness whereof his obedience abolished, and so without all fear went to the rest of his sufferings before and on the cross, where he perfected and ended his oblation, despising all torments and punishments, that the wicked could device for him. 
* 〈◊〉 ibidem.  〈◊〉 ut sanaret in●…irmos, timuit ut faceret securos. Christ sorrowed to heal our weakness, and feared to make us secure. I beheld 〈◊〉 works (o Lord saith he) and admire thee fastened to the cross between two condemned (thieves) now to be neither fearful nor sorrowful; but a conqueror of thy punishments.  

p Defenc. pag. 105. li., 6.  You mean voluntary in such sense that Christmas not also urged thereunto by any violence of pains and fear procuring it in him naturally.] I mean by voluntary, that Christ had power enough to resist and repress the vehemency and painfulness of these affections 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his affections as ●…e saw cause.  in himself; and therefore against or without his will they could not trouble him. For 〈◊〉 did not prevail or exceed in him, as they do in us against our wills, but he must be willing to submit himself to each affection of fear & sorrow, before they could take hold of him, or be grievous to him. Our nature though he took in substance, yet the corruption and distemper of our sinful nature he did not take; and therefore as before our fall the innocency and rectitude, that was in man, could guide and govern as well the rising, as the inflaming of his affections; so much more Christ, who besides sincerity from sin, and liberty from corruption, had the grace and power of God's spirit above measure in his human nature, could so restrain and repress in himself all affections of fear and sorrow, that till he was willing, and thought it fit, they neither did move, nor molest his human flesh, or spirit. And when he suffered man's nature in him to feel the same affections, that are in us, they were holy and righteous in him, declaring his obedience to his Father's will, and not disordered as we find in the corruption of our flesh. And where you add that Christ was urged (to his bloody sweat) by violence of pains or fear procuring it in him naturally; you speak not only against the truth, but even against yourself. For within one leaf after you grant, 
q 〈◊〉. 107. li. 16  it was above the course of nature; led thereunto by Hilaries words, that it was 
r H●…lar. de Trinitate li. 10.  non secundum naturae consuetudinem, not according to the accustomed course of nature. And indeed how could it be natural, since fear cannot by nature cause a bloody sweat? and of all the men that you imagine did ever suffer the pains of hell, you never read in the Scriptures or else where, that any of them did sweat blood. Now if it were natural to pain, yea to your supposed pains of hell in this life to sweat blood, as many as you urge suffered the same, yea all the members of Christ, to whom in these sufferings you make him like, must needs at one ●…ime or other sweat blood as well as Christ. Wherefore it is certain that either you fitten and feign th●…se sufferings in other men, or else Christ was not urged NATURALLY to this sweat by any ●…eares or pains of hell, that oppressed him in the Garden.  

s Defenc. pag. 10. li. 2.  Of this (Exposition) with all the rest you pronounce, that they are sound and well agreeing with Christian piety. Yet is it contrary to your Resolution also, yea it is contrary to the Scripture expressing his fear and vehement sorrows, and discomfort to have caused his Agony.] Your words are of so small weight, that a man would scant spare you Oyster-shels upon your credit. You know not the difference betwixt the occasion of Christ's sorrow and sweat in the Garden, and the exposition of his complaint on the cross. What I say of the one, You more then negligently apply to the other. As for my Resolution Pag. 290. prove it contrary to this position (for exposition it is none, since it concerneth the cause of Christ's sweat, and not the sense of his words;) and you shall after many fails and follies prove somewhat. Otherwise if these things in the Garden concerned Christ's priesthood, which is mine Assertion in this place, I hope his Priesthood proveth both his submission to God, to whom he yielded himself obedient and suppliant, and his compassion on man, for whose sake he refused not to make a bloody and deadly offering of his own body, which is my Resolution in the Page, that you name for a contradiction to this.  
But the Scriptures are against it.] That were worth the hearing, if you had any in store; but if your ignorance be such, that you bring the parts of Christ's agony for the causes thereof; and your insolence such, that you will pronounce what the Scriptures shall say or mean without any farther proof, you may soon make them contrary to themselves, as you do in the main matter and merit of our redemption by the death and blood of 〈◊〉. That Christ in the Garden began to be afraid, and said of himself, he was on every side sorrowful, and after comfort received by an Angel from heaven fell into an agony of intentive prayer, in which his sweat was like drops of blood, this the Scriptures report. What was the direct and particular cause of this fear and sorrow, or for what, after the vision of an Angel from heaven, Christ prayed so earnestly, that his sweat was like blood, this is the Question in this place. Wherein like some late risen Apostle, you take upon you to decide, what best sorteth with your error, and proclaim that to be express Scripture. But where doth the Scripture express, that Christ's fear, sorrow, and discomfort caused his Agony? If they were parts of his agony, as well as his bloody sweat, then must there be a cause as well of these, as of the other; and they caused not his bloody sweat. Now the cause of neither is directly mentioned in the Scriptures. The Scripture 
Comfort by an Angel and intenti●…e prayer went before Christ's bloody sweat.  speaketh of Christ's prostration and prayer, of his triple Petition that the Cup might pass from him, of his Disciples heaviness and neglect to watch with him, of their danger and tentation, of the weakness of flesh, as well as of his sorrow or fear. Doth it therefore express these to be the causes of his agony? and how doth the Gospel declare discomfort to have caused that agony? because it saith, there appeared to him an Angel from heaven 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, strengthening (or comforting) him? the Angel was not able to inspire any spiritual strength into Christ, that is proper to the spirit of God; neither did the Angel perform the part of an honest neighbour, to persuade Christ with words to be content and patient; these kinds of strengthening and comforting are not tolerable in this place; but by his message from God (for he was God's messenger coming from heaven,) he declared in all likelihood, that Christ's prayers were heard in that he feared. For so much the Apostle noteth of Christ's prayers in the Garden, which in all coherence was the comfort the Angel brought with him, when he appeared to him in the Garden. Now this comfort would rather assuage his sorrow and fear, then increase it. Yea how could any comfort brought by the Angel cause this agony? you dream perhaps Christ would not receive that comfort, but notwithstanding the Angels comfortable message continued his former agony, or fell into a worse than before, wherein he sweat blood. If your dreams be express Scripture, than here is all the Scripture you have, even your presuming besides the Scripture, or rather against the Scripture. For since the Evangelist affirmeth, 
t Luke. 22.  an Angel from heaven, that is from God, appeared comforting him, that is with a comfortable message to him; in all reason his fear and sorrow did now cease; and he fell upon this comfort received as I think, not repelled as you imagine, to an agony, not of fear and sorrow, much less of hell pains; but of more vehement prayer, than before, and in that zealous and inflamed prayer, in which he powered forth not only the strength of his Soul, but the very spirits of his body for desire to prevail for man against sin and satan, his sweat was like blood.  

u Defenc. pag. 107. li 1.  The words next before in the text are; 
u Luk. 22. 43. 44.  AN ANGEL CAME TO GIVE HIM SOME COMFORT, that is, lest he should be overwhelmed quite in his sorrow & discomfort; but still he was in his agonic, and sweat like drops of blood trickling down to the ground, and presently saith, MY SOUL IS FULL OF SORROWLS EVEN UNTO THE DEATH. ● The Tempter in the wilderness, that sought by pretence of God's power and protection to procure Christ's overthrow, had more regard not to be taken tardy with corrupting the Scriptures, than you have in this place: for he cited the words as they lay, without addition or interposition of his own, which you do not; buttaking some parts of the text for a show, you most untruly and most pestilently corrupt both the text and the truth of the Gospel. You cite out of S. Luke ca 22. vers. 43, 44; these words in a different letter, as the words in the text next before Christ's bloody sweat; An Angel came to give him some comfort, etc. Are these the Evangelists words? Was your haste so great, or your care so little, that you could not, or would not so much as look in your book for the right words of the text? S. Luke sayeth, 
x Luk. 22. v. 43  There appeared unto him an Angel from heaven 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strengthening him, or comforting him; no doubt with a message from God, which what it was, we do not know, except we apply the Apostles words to this purpose, where he saith: (Christ) 
y Heb 5. v. 7.  in the days of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did offer up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears, to him that was able to save him from death, AND WAS HEARD IN THAT WHICH HE FEARED. This if we take to be the comfort which the Angel brought from heaven, the Apostle might well intend it. For that Christ's prayers were heard, and so much declared to him by an Angel from heaven, could not be but very comfortable to him. If we list not to believe this was the Angel's message of comfort, than we must confess, that the comfort which the Angel brought, is unknown to man, as the certain cause of Christ's bloody sweat.  
But whatsoever we suppose of the Angel's message, there is some difference betwixt S. Luke's words, and those which you cite, as the words next before the text. [not in matter you will say. I speak of the words which you may not alter, when you profess to cite the text whatsoever the matter be. [You keep the meaning of the Evangelist, you think. Such a meaning, as you yourself make of the Evangelist: for you translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (which is strengthening him) to give him some comfort. Where by the diminutive (some) you would imply, that it was not sufficient to remove his fear; and that intent you betray in the next line, citing again your own words in stead of S. Luke's, and apparently corrupting his text: for coming to cite the 44 verse, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and falling into an agony he prayed more earnestly (or intentively:) in stead of these words, professing to cite the text, you say, But still he was in his agony. And as for the words, he prayed more earnestly, which are 
The 〈◊〉 corrupteth S. ●…uke.  immediate before Christ's sweeting blood, you shut them clean out, as not fitting your turn, lest the Reader should think his vehement prayer after comfort received was the cause of this agony; for that the Evangelist placeth it next before in the text. Your words then, he was in his agony, are no good translation; and that which is added, but still he was in his agony, is a violent corruption; for genómenos there doth not signify his being, or continuing that which he was before; but his becoming that which he was not before. For example, 
z Gal. 4. v. 4.  God sent his Son genómenon made of a woman, and genómenon made under the law. Doth the word genómenos here signify, that Christ was man before he was conceived of his mother, or rather, that he was made of his mother, which before he was not? and so, made under the law, doth not import, that Christ was subject to the law before he was man, but that being altogether free from the law he would become subject to the law, which before he was not. Likewise 
a joh. 1. v. 14.  ho logos sarx egeneto, the word was made flesh, which before it was not. This difference of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Greek Scholiast observeth commenting upon S. Paul's words, I could wish to be separated from Christ for my brethren. 
b Photius apud 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉. 9 Epist. a●… 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Paul doth not say, (he could be content) to become a curse, which is NOW PRESENTLY to be severed from Christ, but to be (or have been) a curse, that is, to have yet continued severed from Christ. So that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to be m●…de or to become, is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, from the present time, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to be, is still to continue. Wherefore genóm●…nos enagonia, is falling (at that present upon comfort received by the Angel) into an agony, and not as you corruptly translate. still he was in his agony.  
An agony (you will say) you use for all Christ's affections and actions in the garden.] But so doth not S. Luke; he referreth the word to Christ's more ardent prayers, and to his bloody sweat. If we speak abusively, an agony may be taken for fear, as I have formerly showed; or if defectively we name one part for the whole, which 
How some use the word Agony.  some men use to avoid length of speech, and the number of particulars; then Christ's agony may stand to note all his affections, actions and supplications in the garden: but if we speak properly, as there is no cause nor proof S. Luke should here do otherwise, than Christ's agony both by the propriety of the Greek word, and by the circumstances of the text, was that vehement contention of mind, wherewith Christ prayed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more fervently than before, being now strengthened or comforted by the Angels appearing and message, and even powered forth his spirit to God with so zealous affection, that his sweat was like blood. This you would cross by your corrupt translation, in saying, BUT STILL he was in his agony, though the words of the Evangelist do not import, that he continued still any former agony, but upon the strength and comfort received by the Angel, he fell into an agony of most vehement desire to prevail in the work of our redemption, and to remove all impediments, for which he used so strong cries and tears, that his sweat was coloured like blood.  
All these things you venture to determine by your own authority, as if the Scriptures were under your command, and little think, that wise and godly Readers will censure your licentious intrusion on the Scriptures as it deserveth. Neither can you cease for aught that I see: for as you affirm that which our Saviour assumed upon the Angel's message, to have possessed him before at his entrance into the garden; so the words which he spoke before any prayer in the garden, and much more before the appearing of the Angel, you make consequent to his bloody sweat. Your handsome and holy translation and exposition is, 
c Defenc. pag. 107. li 3.  but still he was in his agony, and sweat like drops of blood trickling to the ground: and presently saith, My soul is full of sorrows to death. Where you commit two notable falsifications even of the Scripture itself. 
The D●…fender addeth to Saint Luke that which he never wrote, and leaveth out that which he wrote.  For first these words, My soul is full of sorrows even to death, are not in S. Luke's Gospel, whence you would seem to cite them, as presently said after Christ's bloody sweat. Next you pervert both the other Evangelists, in which these words are written: for both Matthew and Mark, which witness the speaking of those words, precisely record, that they were spoken to Christ's three Disciples before he departed at first from them to pray in secret, and before he began to express any desire, that the cup might pass from him. Read the texts, they keep almost the same words. When Christ had said to the rest of his Disciples, 
d Mar. 14. v. 32  Sat you here till I have prayed, 
e 33.  he took Peter, and james, and john, and he began to be afraid, and in great heaviness; 
f 34.  and said unto them: My soul is very heavy unto death: tarry here and watch. 
g 35.  So he went forward a little, and fell down on the ground, and prayed that if it were possible, that hour might pass from him. You turn all upside downward, and tell us out of S. Luke, that still Christ was in his agony and sweat like drops of blood, and presently saith, My soul is full of sorrows even to death. With such additions, translations, and corruptions against the circumstances described in the Scriptures, some doubt may chance to creep at a crevie into some men's consciences touching the cause of Christ's agony, but your pains of the damned are not one jot the nearer for all your inverting & perverting the Evangelists words to your will. For what if Christ did sweat blood at first, which the Gospel referreth to the last, doth that give entrance to the second death and torments of the damned? Are not the pains of this life able to make men sweat blood, but you must run to hell for the lake that burneth there with fire and brimstone, before man's body may colour his sweat with the show of blood? Is it harder for Christ to resolve his blood into sweat by zeal without pains, or with bodily pains, whiles he was living, than when he was dead to send out of his side, first 
h joh. 13 v. 34.  blood, and then water, so distinctly and miraculously the one after the other, that S. john confirmeth it with his own 
i vers. 35.  sight, lest so strange a thing should not be believed?  

k Defenc. pag. 106. li. 35.  Though it be against the common course of our nature for any pains or fear to sweat blood: yet the divine power with and through pains and fears might wring out of his body that trickling bloody sweat. As it is plain that it did by the words next before in the text, an Angel came to give him some comfort.] Your head was troubled about some weighty work, when one sentence wrong from you such contrarieties and falsities. But the 
l Pag. 105. li. 38.  Page before, you took special exception against me, if I did not think, that Christ was urged to his bloody sweat (for thereof you speak in that place) by violence of pains, or fear procuring it in him NATURALLY; here you say, it is against the common course of our nature for any pains or fear to sweat blood. Could it be naturally procured in Christ, and yet against the common course of our nature? again if it be against the common course of our nature for any pains or fear to sweat blood, by what reason or authority do you conclude hell pains out of Christ's bloody sweat? for if no pains or fear can by the course of our nature procure a bloody sweat, how know you that Christ did sweat blood for pains or for fear? for hell pains, you will say, he might.] Not by any course of our nature. For then all his members which at one time or other feel the like, which Christ felt, should sweat blood, as Christ did. But that I trust is sensiblely false. [The divine power might wring it out of his body.] So it may raise Children to Abraham out of stones. Doth that infer, that men are made of stones? and might not the divine power wring this sweat (for that is your phrase) out of Christ's body as well without hell pains, as with them? is it hard for God to make a man sweat blood without the pains of the damned? [It is plain that it did by the words next before in the text.] Doth the text name hell pains, or the fear of hell? what will you not adventure, that thus presume to outface the Scriptures? the text nameth many things before, and you like your crafts-master will make your choice, though the Scripture do not express, what was the cause thereof. [The words next before the text are an Angel came to give him comfort.] Then comfort belike cast him into this bloody sweat, if the words next before declare the cause thereof; which were very strange, that a man by comfort should be cast into a bloody sweat. Why may not I rather say that the vision of an Angel put him rather into this sweat, than the comfort, which was brought him, since Daniel was 
m Dan. 8. v. 27.  strooken sick and astonished with a vision, as divers others of God's saints have been? yet I think neither of these to be the cause of that sweat, but as I say in my Sermons, it might be voluntary either for signification, as Austen, Prosper, Bede, and Bernard do think; or for sanctification and consecration of his person and sacrifice answeareable to the manner of the legal oblation prefiguring this as the truth; or for vehement contention of spirit in prayer, which indeed is the next thing mentioned before his sweat, and showed his desire and zeal to be more than human for the Redeeming and reconciling of man to God by the shedding of his blood.  

n Defenc. pag. 106. li. 27.  You conclude that Christ's agony demonstrating Christ's Priesthood must not rise from the terror of his own death; and yet a little before you openly confess and grant, that his agony did rise from the fear of his death.] The effect of Christ's Priesthood performed in the garden must in no wise concern himself. For he was not a Priest to make intercession, or to offer sacrifice for himself, but for us. And therefore his prayers then uttered in his agony with strong cries and tears, if they pertained to his Priesthood, they were made for us, and not for himself; and declared his voluntary proffering and presenting his body and blood to God's pleasure, to be the sacrifice for man's Redemption, and his fervent supplications to have it accepted as the full Ransom for his elect, that the accuser and supplanter of his Church might be removed from God's presence, and wholly subjecteth under Christ's feet. Now if this desire and offer for us must not only be voluntary, but inflamed with wonderful vehemency, then would not Christ sweat blood for any terror of his own death, but for his infinite fervency to prevail and obtain his petition for us. You permix Christ's fear, and his fervent zeal together, and call the whole action his agony, though it contain both fear conceived at first, when he approached God's presence in judgement for sin, and comfort received at last by message brought from Heaven, and out of this confusion you collect what you list, and say what you please to no purpose. That Christ might have a natural fear of death, I then said, and yet see no cause to recall it; but that I said Christ did sweat blood for fear of his bodily death, this is one of your painted faces with which you would outface the truth. Howbeit this persisting in your ignorant folly without remembering or regarding what is said on the other side, argueth ridiculous negligence, or malicious diligence: of which because I have already spoken, I will say no more.  

o Defenc. pag. 106. li. 33.  Why should Hilary deny, that Christ's bloody sweat came of infirmity? or Austen, that Christ's fear and perturbation was of infirmity?] Because they had learned judgements, and sober considerations in these matters, which you want. They beheld Christ's power, which no force of hell or Satan could impeach, but where and when himself would permit. They saw the innocency and integrity of Christ's human nature, which could not be tossed nor troubled with inward affections, but when and how far he was content to admit them. They knew the infinite love of God to his son, for whose sake we were all beloved and adopted; and that the father was so far from tormenting the soul of his son with his immediate hand, that 
p john 17.  he gave him power over all flesh, and 
q john 13.  gave all things into his hands even before his death, and against the time of his agony in the garden. Wherefore as the 
r john 14.  Prince of this world had nought in him, and for that cause neither sin nor corruption were found in him; and 
s john 10.  no man took his soul from him, but he laid it down of himself; so neither necessity nor infirmity of our nature could oppress or possess him, but he must first give place to it by his will, and guide it by power, that in all as well sufferings, as doings, he might be obedient, and yet righteous. And had they heard such a guest, as you are, tell them a tale of God's 
t Defenc. pag. 106. li. 38.  divine power wring out of Christ's body a bloody sweat, they would have rung you another manner of peal. For what is wring, but violent forcing? and what is violence, but involuntary constraint, which is any thing rather than obedience? and so where the Apostle professeth of Christ, that he was obedient even unto death, you have spied out that Christ's bloody sweat was WRUNG from him, and so no part of his willing and free submission and obedience unto God.  

u Defenc. pag. 107. li. 12.  Where they say, Nec infirmitas quod potestas gessit, that proveth the clean contrary: for ideo & infirmitas quia potestas gessit. For the working of his power in him argueth the suffering of his infirmity. The power of God is perfited in infirmity.] If you would ascribe neither Religion, nor learning to two such Pillars of Christ's Church, as Hilary and Austen were, you should at least leave them common in sight and understanding of their own words. It is enough for a man of your size to lack learning, truth, and sense. They were very learned and wise, or else the whole Church, that hath hitherto esteemed and received them for such, was much deceived. But you, that have found a new faith in the Scriptures, no marvel if you catch the fathers with contrarieties, which others never dreamed of. The ground of their words is the clear rule of reason, nature, and truth, confirmed in heaven, earth and hell: that contraries in one and the same subject, time, and respect do exclude one another. As if any thing be cold, it is not hot; if it be dry, it is not moist; if it be strait, it is not crooked; and so if it be weak, it is not strong. Hence they conclude, if there could be in Christ no compulsion to fear and sorrow, than was there election; if no necessity, than liberty; and consequently if no prevalence of corruption against his fullness of truth and grace, than it was not infirmity, that subjecteth him to these violent and painful affections, but it was his will and power, that raised and restrained them in himself. Against this what saith our master of new maxims? [nay it was therefore infirmity, because power did it.] This indeed crosteth their sayings, but withal it crosseth all truth, if you take their words, as they spoke them. [But you mean, as your marginer noteth therefore there was infirmity, because 
x Defence pag. 107. ad marginem. li. 3.  there was power.] He can never shoot amiss, that never offereth to any mark. Where was there infirmity, & where was there power? in the person of Christ? belike Hilary and Austen did not know, that Christ was God and man, and had in his person both the infinite power of God, and the voluntary weakness of man, that being compared with his Godhead might well be called infirmity: as the Apostle sai●…th, Christ was crucified concerning (his) infirmity, that is, in the weakness of his flesh, but yet that voluntary weakness of God, or in God the son, was stronger than all the power of men or of Devils, whom his manhood spoiled, and carried captives, with an open triumph. This is not their meaning to say, that Christ had no infirm part in his person, compared with his divine power, that is no manhood, but only his Godhead; and therefore your reply to that purpose is as senseless, as it is needless.  
Where Christ's divine power did punish, there his human infirmity did suffer.] This is your wresting of their words against their meaning, to bring them to your compass, but this is no part of their speech. That weakness is patient, where power is agent, this may be; but what is that to their words, which are very true without your punishing power? Hilary saith, 
y Hilar. de Trinitate. li. 10.  To sweat blood is against nature, and so not a weakness in nature. Since than it was above nature to sweat blood, he ascribeth it to Christ's will and power performing that in his body, which nature could not do. 
z Ibidem.  Quis rogo furor est, repudiata doctrinae Apostolicae fide, mutare sensum religionis, & totum hoc ad imbecillitatem & contumeliam rapere naturae, quod & volunt as est, & sacramentum, quod & potest as est, & siducia, & triumphus? What madness is this (here you, Sir Defender, how he requiteth you for perverting the truth of his words) by refusing the faith of the Apostles doctrine, to change the sense of religion, and to impute all that to the imbccillitie and contumely of (Christ's) nature, which was (his) will, and a mystery, yea power, confidence and victory? And again, lest you should think he wanted reason for his speech: 
a Ibidem.  Quarogo side naturaliter infirmus fuisse defenditur, cui naturale fuit omnem human arum infirmitatum inhibere naturam? Forte stulta atque impia perversitate hinc infirmae in ●…o naturae presumitur assertio, quia trist is sit anima eius usque ad mortem. With what faith, I ask, is (Christ) affirmed to be naturally weak, to whom it was natural to heal all man's infirmities? Happily by a foolish and wicked peevishness he is therefore presumed to be of a weak nature, because his soul was sorrowful unto death. This ground of his speech is short, but sure, except you will deride Christ, and say, 
b Luke 4.  Physician heal thyself; or blaspheme him with the pharisees, and say as they said; 
c Matth. 27.  He saved others, he can not save himself. It was then in Christ not want of power to repress these passions, or repel these infirmities, that subjecteth himself unto them, it was his own willing obedience, that would taste them, and power that did guide them, lest they should break into the distemper and excess of our corrupt nature.  
The power of God, you say, is perfected in infirmity.] Those words I trust were not spoken of Christ; and howsoever in some sort they may be verified of Christ, yet is there no comparison betwixt our natural infirmity, and his fullness of truth and grace. 
d Esa. 11.  The spirit of counsel and truth rested on him 
e john 3.  without measure: we wholly want it, till God's power in some degree confirm our infirmity. Again, infirmity in these words doth signify outward afflictions and miseries: for so the Apostle there expoundeth it: 
f 2. Cotin. 12. vers. 10.  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions; for when I am (outwardly) weak, than I am (inwardly) strong. So that those words can not rightly be referred to inward infirmity; and might they, yet Christ's gifts and graces of the Holy Ghost were not only far above Paul's, but in the greatest degree that any creature might have them, and greater than all the gifts of men and angels. How then doth it follow, that Christ was weak, because Paul was weak? Yea, if Paul's weakness were perfected by Christ's power, as Paul himself confesseth in that place; 
g Ibid. verse 9  Very gladly will I rejoice in mine infirmities, that the power of Christ may dwell in me; then from those words Christ's power is proved, and not his infirmity. But take it which way you will, though this be the truth which I have told; these words do nothing hinder Hilaries and Austin's confession, that Christ's infirmity was voluntary, where ours is necessary; and so infirmity in him was not for want of strength, but for merit of righteousness, and was both received and directed by his will and power. And where you are so often on the hoy to impair S. Austin's credit with yours, you shall do well to get you some more understanding in him, before you rush so rashly against him, left if it come to the balance, whether you or S. Austen be in an error, you find few friends so favourable, that will forsake him to follow you. His resolution, which you may put off with pride, but you shall never refute with reason, is this: 
h August. de civitate Dei. li. 14. ca 9  Habemus ergo has affectiones ex huma●…a conditionis infirmitate, non autem ita Dominus jesus, cuius & infirmit as fuit ex potestate. 〈◊〉 etiam ipse Dominus in forma servi agere vitam dignat us humanam, sed nullum habens omnin●… peccatum, adhibuit eas, ubi adhibendas esse iudicavit. cum ergo cius in evangelio ista referuntur, quod Lazarum suscitaturus lachrymas fuderit, quòd propin quante passione tr●…stis fuerit anima eius usque ad mortem, non falsò utique ista referuntur. Verum ille hos motus certa dispensationis gratia, ita cum voluit, suscepit animo humano, ut cum voluit, factus est homo. We have these affections (of fear and sorrow etc.) by the infirmity of man's condition, but the Lord jesus had them not so, whose infirmity was of his own power. Wherefore the Lord, when he vouchsafed to lead an human life in the form of a servant, but utterly void of all sin, admitted those affections, when he saw it fit to admit them. And in the Gaspell, when those things are reported of him, as that he wept when he was about to raise Lazarus, and that his Passion approaching, his soul was sorrowful unto death; these things are not falsely written of him, but he admitted these motions in his human mind for certain purposes, even when he would, as when he would he was made man.  

l Defene. pag. 107. li. 20. 18.  I judge their very meaning to be, that here appeared not Christ's infirmity only in suffering, but his divine power also in punishing, and this they speak fully for us, and against you.] If you make them speak that they never meant, they may chance to speak with you; but leave them to express their own minds, and then they neither speak, nor mean with you. But what is the reason, they so soon speak with you, where not five lines before you controlled their speech, as repugnant to the truth? have you now by your glozes made them liars like yourself? you should at least be more constant, if not more prudent, than first to challenge in their speech a contrariety to the truth, and then to claim a conformity to their sense. They meant no such thing, as you make show of, but they speak of Christ's power, which stirred and governed his affections, as he thought good, that they might declare him a true man, and yet be parts of his obedience, and submission to his Father, though withal they were religious and voluntary. For as he emptied and humbled himself, so he weakened and troubled himself, when he saw time; not for want of power, but of purpose so disposing and despensing his affections, that by his virtue he might moderate them in his own person, and cure them in ours.  

k Defenc. pag. 107. li. 28.  Those other mystical and figurative sayings of Austen, Bede and Bernard, how shall we admit them without better warrant? that Christ's bloodshed was to signify, that Martyrs do shed their blood, what reason have we so to think? or that his bloodshed should signify the purging of his Disciples hearts from sin, yea or of all his Church in the whole world? It did not signify this, but it did it indeed.] If their opinions of Christ's bloody 
Christ's bloody sweat might hau●… signification as well as the water that ●…anne out of his side.  sweat, be not to be admitted, because they bring no warrant besides themselves for it, how should we admit your loose dreams and dangerous fancies of a new found hell inflicted on the Soul of Christ in the Garden by the immediate hand of God, which is not only strange, but repugnant to the Scriptures? theirs is possible, and agreeable to the rules of faith; yours is not. Why Christ sent out of his side, after his body was dead, first blood, and then water, can any man give the reason? Saint Austen saith, 
i August. in johan. tract. 15.  De latere pendentis in cruse, lancea 〈◊〉, sacramenta ecclesiae profluxerunt. Out of Christ's side pierced with a spear, as he hanged on the cross, the Sacraments of the Church issued forth. What warrant had he so to say? the Scripture doth not vouch so much; and yet the Church of God hath ever since regarded, and received that speech of his. So for Christ's bloody sweat, finding no reason delivered in the Scripture, he descended to the signification, which might be thereof, that Christ by sweeting blood in his whole natural body, foreshowed the martyrdoms of his mystical body, the Church. You ask for a Reason.] The resemblance is evident, and the performance consequent; greater reasons than which cannot be given of significations. You like it not.] No marvel; nothing pleaseth you besides the wring out of this sweat by the divine power punishing. You have neither proof, nor truth for your second death to be suffered at this time, and in this place; and yet you would have your absurd conceits preferred before Saint Austin's judgement. It was above the course of nature, you grant; and since it was not natural, it must be miraculous, if not mystical. Now if it were a miracle, there may no reason be required of it, but it must be left to the power and will of the doer. To what end Christ did it, if you like neither Austin's, Prospers, Bedes nor Bernard's judgements in this case, know you any man so unwise, as to like yours?  
You say, it did not signify the purging of the earth from sin, it did it indeed.] Did the bloody sweat of Christ in the Garden purge indeed all his Church in the whole world from sin? what needed then his death and passion afterward on the Cross? what needed his body be given for them, and his blood to be (violently) shed for remission of sins, if this sweat did indeed purge all our sins? but you speak in this, as you do in all other things, without caring what you say, so you bring somewhat to continue your cavilling. This sweat the Apostle calleth 
m Heb. 5.  tears, and joineth them with Christ's vehement prayers in the garden, which he saith were heard. Then Christ's fervent desire to prevail in the work of our redemption against all the hindrances thereof, might in all reason move him to pray with tears, respecting our misery, and yet indignity, for whom he prayed; and so be the cause of this bloody sweat: and your hell pains must give place, till you find some better proof for them, than your bare avouching, that this sweat might rise from the very pains of the damned, which is your single supposal with far less warrant, than any thing that Austen, Prosper, Bede or Bernard said. And as for your binding all their significations and your imaginations in a bundle together; when you first prove, that the Scriptures affirm any such thing, as the second death, or the pains of the damned to be suffered by Christ, than we will talk what might rise from your hell pains; in the mean time know you Sir wanderer, that if the rest might be the causes of this bloody and voluntary sweat, than you may put up your pen, and lay your unquiet head to rest.  

n Defenc. pag. 107. li 31.  Hitherto we have made it manifest that in truth you have nothing in all these words against our Doctrine, that pains and sorrows were the true and proper cause of Christ's dreadful agony; nor to prove that his mere bodily pains or death was the whole cause. Now we are to show the like in his most woeful complaint on the cross: where he saith, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me.] And I have made it more manifest, that you have less for your doctrine of the second death and the pains of the damned to be suffered in the Soul of Christ, whiles he prayed in the Garden. For what reasons be these; Christ feared and sorrowed in the Garden, and he prayed so intentively that his sweat was like blood: ergo, he suffered the second death and the pains of the damned: except a man were disposed to run mad with reason? [He feared somewhat else besides a mere bodily death.] What then? how many degrees and causes of fear and sorrow have I showed, that might conjoin in Christ now seeing in God's presence and judgement the weight of our redemption, and the number of our sins, together with the vengeance provoked by them, and the power of God's anger displeased with them, and yet no point nor part of the second death to be suffered by him? if there might be any cause besides yours, than yours can never be certainly concluded from the Scripture, which is the thing I first affirmed to the Reader. You ask me where I read mine in the word of God, and I ask you the like. The Text saith, Christ feared and sorrowed, but the cause of Christ's fear or sorrow is not there declared. Then no cause being expressly mentioned, neither mine nor your, I lea●…e it to the censure of the Christian Reader, which of us two taketh the surest course: I, that 〈◊〉 no cause but concording with the main grounds of the Scriptures, and such as you confess wanted not in Christ at that present, and whereto the learned and Catholic Fathers give full consent and approbation; or you, that wade alone by yourself in your own conceits, such as have no foundation in the word of God, and are repugnant to the Principles of Christian Religion confirmed by the Scriptures, and confessed by the greatest pillars of Christ's Church, next after the Apostles. And where you promise to show the like in Christ's complaint on the Cross, I easily believe, you will perform the one, as well as you did the other, by your own fancies without all regard of truth or proof.  

o Defenc. pag. 107. li. 37.  You will a●…ke me here what kind of forsaking may this be.] Lose not your labour, I will ask you no such thing. What have I to do with your untidie devices wynoing words as men do chaff to and fro without any manner or offer of proof? The question I did and do ask, is; not what you parley out of your own platform, but how you can prove by the word of God, that forsaking in this complaint of Christ's was either damnation, or the second death, which your Reader perceiveth now to be your purpose, though you long dissembled it. Your interlacing those words with qualified phrases serveth but to save you from apparent heresy and blasphemy. It maketh no manner of proof, that those words must so be understood, or that the pains of the damned may thence by any colour be concluded. [
p Ibid. li. 3●….  I plainly showed you before, if you had regarded it.] And I more plainly opposed those things against it, which you neither did, nor can answer: and do you think, that neglecting what you list, I must be forced laboriously to disprove all your devices, before you show what dependence they have with the Sacred Scriptures, or with the primative faith of Christ's Church? my grounds excluding your exposition and conclusion, are to be seen in my Sermons pag. 32. 33. and are such, as you shall never defeat. The first is, that dereliction and forsaking do no where throughout the Scriptures import damnation, or the second death, which is your drift in this place; but are always applied to the judgements of this life. The second, that in the wicked castaways it argueth reprobation from grace, and desperation of glory, which if any man imagine of Christ, it is rather furious blasphemy, then erroneous folly. Thirdly, that in the godly the word used by Christ noteth either destitution of help, or diminution of comfort in time of trouble; but neither in David, who first spoke them; nor in Christ do they with any show conclude the true pains of the damned. Fourthly, that no construction must be made of this word, that may decrease in Christ the fullness of truth and grace, which never wanted in his Soul, or draw him within the compass of erroneous mistrusting or mistaking God's favour & counsel towards him. These grounds standing good, which you shall never be able to remove, your warbling with those words to make them pliable to your will, is but time and pains lost; wind them which way you can, by example of any Scripture you shall never wrest them to that height, which you desire. But because you are so far in love with your own fancies, and my leisure now serveth me better than it did before, let us hear what kind of forsaking you would feign fasten to Christ's complaint on the Crosse.  

q Defenc. pag. 108. li. 1.  Christ being now in the feeling of infinite pains inflicted on him sundry ways, and that directly from God's proper wrath for our sins, he felt his whole human Nature for the time left all comfortless and alone, without any joyous assistance of his Deity.] Do you enforce all this from the word forsaking, or would you add it to those words, which Christ spoke? either way your ignorance or impudence is clear and manifest. For if you dare add so many circumstances of so great importance to those words, you are not a tolerable expounder, but a notable perverter of Christ's words. If you would conclude so much from the word, you show yourself most ridiculous against all the rules of Divine Doctrine, and human sense to deduce all those sequels from that one word. For neither infinite pains, nor from God's proper wrath, nor in Christ's whole human Nature, nor all comfortless are necessary consequents to that word; and yet grant all these, so far as any truth or experience convinceth them to be felt in this life, they no way amount to the second death, or to the true pains of the damned, which is the thing you should and would infer from this complaint.  

r Defenc. pag. 108. li. 7.  I mean his Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding itself from him, for that season of his Passion gave him no sense nor feeling of ease, comfort, or joy.] Your own mouth testifieth against you, that you do not expound, but corrupt the Scriptures to serve your conceits. Begin with the last. Doth not the Apostle in plain words say, that Christ 
s Heb. 12.  for the joy set before him endured the Cross? Who could set any joy before him in that case, but God alone? then apparently did his Godhead set before him assurance of joy, and that everlasting in the highest degree, which was so great, that it led him with patience to endure the Crosse. [He had no present feeling thereof, you will say.] So you must say, or else in exact words you show yourself to contradict the spirit of God. But if God did propose it, and Christ did most certainly know it, and expect it; had faith and hope in him no present sense nor feeling? had not Christ far certainer and fuller knowledge and sight of God's presence, favour, and promises, than any faith or hope in us can have? 
t Rom. 5.  If then we rejoice under the hope of glory, did not he? did not he know, that he 
u Luke 24.  was to suffer those things, and (so) to enter into his glory; when he called them fools, and slow of hart, that believed not all that the Prophets have spoken by the spirit, 
x 1. Peter 1.  forewitnessing the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow? Did the spirit of God by David bear false witness, when he said of Christ, and in Christ's person; I 
y Acts 2.  beheld the Lord always before me at my right hand, that I should not be shaken; therefore did mine hart rejoice, and my tongue was glad, and my flesh shall rest in hope? Ease from pain he felt none; ne would he feel, till by death he determined his sufferings, but comfort in his afflictions he could not want, because he was not only patient and obedient to the will of God, and so not void of comfort, when he had done the will of God, to receive his promises; but even in the midst of his sharpest pains he saw the counsel of God for his glorification, and our redemption; and beheld God as his Father most highly pleased with him, though justly displeased with our sins, the smart whereof he must feel in his flesh.  
That therefore Christ's whole human Nature on the Cross was all comfortless and alone, is false doctrine, and repugnant not only to the words of David, that Christ 
z Psal. 16.  beheld God always at his right hand, that he should not be moved; but even to the manifest assertion of Christ himself, who said to his Disciples, 
a john 16.  the hour is come, that you shall be scattered, and leave me alone; but I am not alone, for the Father is with me. Now if God were always present with Christ, that he should not be shaken, God was always well pleased with him. Yea God was joined to him, not ingrace alone, as he is with us, but in nature and person, as he is with no man else nor Angel. If then we have comfort from God's grace and spirit in our afflictions, how much more did consolations abound in Christ, even as sufferings did? for since God is 
b 2. Cor. 1.  the God of all comfort; who comforteth us in all our troubles, that as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation (should) abound through Christ; how is it possible, Christ should comfort us, if he were himself all comfortless in his pains? shall we derive that from him, which he had not? or rather is it impiety so much as to think, that any inward comfort wanted unto Christ, who was personally united to God, and on whom the 
c Esa. 11.  Spirit of God rested, (that is always continued with all fullness of grace and truth) 
c Esa. 11.  even the spirit of wisdom, and under standing, the spirit of counsel and strength, the spirit of knowledge, and of the fear of the Lord? If this spirit never departed from him, he could want neither peace nor joy in the holy Ghost, and so no comfort incident to man's nature afflicted, as he then was, and would be; yea that was the least degree of his comfort, which was common to him with us, who yet derive all our comfort from him: he had the nearest, surest, highest, and plentifullest spring of comfort in his own person, that any creature was capable of. To make therefore his whole manhood all comfortless without any inward peace or joy from God's spirit, is a detestable doctrine, subverting the communion of both Natures in Christ, and so dissolving the union of his person, if neither part of his human nature had any sense or feeling of his Godhead.  

d Defenc. pag. 108. li. 5.  I say not he wanted now all assistance of his deity.] If he wanted peace and comfort in the holy Ghost, if he had no longer any certain knowledge, nor understanding of his father's will, and if he felt inwardly in his human soul no persuasion, apprehension, nor expectation of his father's presence, favour, and promises; tell me what assistance he had of his Godhead, when all these things failed in him? [ioious assistance 
Christ found no joy in his p●…ine, but comfort in his hope.  he had none.] Is it fit for such a wrangler, as you are, first to dishonour the sufferings of Christ with the leaven of your fancies, and then to sprinkle them with the holy water of your Phrases? how often hath it been told you, that for obedience to the will of his father, the son of God would use no power to repel his pains, nor to diminish his sense thereof, but only patience, whereby we might be assured, that he felt his afflictions on the Cross with quicker sense and greater pains, than we are able with any patience to endure? And is this all that now you would say, that Christ found no joy in his pains? what Cowkeeper doth not know, that pain is pain, and not joy? but was Christ's pain such that it excluded his soul from the remembrance or sense of all God's graces so richly powered on him, and promises so faithfully made unto him? you were best come in with your movable fits of astonishment, and tell us that in one and the same sentence, when Christ said, My God, my God, he was in full and perfect assurance and assistance of God's favour, whom else he could not call his God, if he felt no comfort in him, that is the God of all comfort; and when he pronounced the next syllable, why, he presently fell into a sudden pang, where he was forsaken, and left all comfortless and alone according to your devices. And if any man be so wise, to let you lead him through such thorns, as to grant in Christ on the Cross sometimes hope of glory, and sometimes fear of confusion, sometimes comfort and suddenly distrust of his salvation, sometimes God's favour and full assistance, as in affliction, and by and by the second death and the pains of the damned; he may dally with faith and infidelity, with heaven and hell, with Christ and belial as you do. But if it were not possible for Christ crucified, being the wisdom and power of God, to be tossed and tumbled with such contrary blasts, then hath the forsaking, which he complained of, an other manner of sense, than you imagine.  
And whatsoever meaning you ascribe unto it, you may not with a word, that admitteth divers interpretations, impugn the plain and open words and deeds of our Saviour, in which is no question. As when the high Priest asked him, 
e Mar. 14.  art thou Christ the son of the blessed? jesus said I am; and ye shall see the son of man sit at the right hand of power, and come in the clouds of heaven. And when the Thief, that was crucified with him, said unto him; 
f Luc. 22.  Lord remember me, when thou comest into thy kingdom; he answered, Verily I say unto thee, to day shalt thou be with me in Paradise. As also breathing out his soul, he said, 
g Ibidem.  Father into thine hands I commend my spirit. If to be the son of God, and to sit at God's right hand in glory, if to dispose of Paradise at his pleasure, and to commit his spirit into his Father's hands, be no signs nor proofs of comfort and joy, then let your exposition bear some show: but if these be more than arguments of most excellent honour and glory, not only reserved for him, and confirmed unto him, but assumed and professed by him, even when he was condemned and crucified; who that had any care of truth, or respect to reason, would avouch, that Christ's 
h Defenc. pag. 108. li 9  godhead gave him for that season of his passion no sense nor feeling of comfort and joy neither in spirit, soul, nor body?  

i Defenc. pag. 108. li. 16.  This was that extreme humiliation and exin●…nition of nature, wherein God spared not his son, and wherein Christ spared not himself:] If you may sit judge not only over Prophets and Apostles, but over Christ himself, you will soon appoint him to suffer, what pleaseth you; but when you come to make proof thereof, you betray the violence of your spirits, that must have all things give way to your wills, and the weakness of your judgements, that discern not humility from infidelity, nor religious patience from hellish astonishment. 
k Philip. 2.  Exinanition and humiliation the Apostle nameth in Christ, but either voluntary, and either in comparison of his divine glory and majesty; wherein being equal with his father, he took on him the form of a servant, and 
Christ emptied himself of glory not of grac●….  humbled himself, becoming obedient to the death of the cross, The Apostle neither saith nor meaneth, that Christ emptied himself of all grace or comfort in his whole human nature, but laid aside the use and show of his divine power and honour, whiles for love to us he performed the work of our redemption in the shape of a servant, and became obedient unto the death of the cross, which was painful and shameful, but not astonished with the pains of the damned, nor subjecteth to the second death. This is your yarn, which you would feign weave into the Apostles words, but truth and falsehood have no fellowship; no more have your dreams and the Apostles doctrine. As much it maketh for you, that God spared not his own son, but gave him for us all, whence you may as well conclude, that God adjudged his son to everlasting destruction and damnation, for that were indeed not to spare him, as that he inflicted on him the true pains of hell, lest he should seem to spare him. The Apostles words expound themselves; God spared not his son, but gave him for us; This giving him into the hands of sinners for our sakes was Gods not sparing him, otherwise that God spared him in nothing, which either his power was able to impose, or our sins did deserve, this is doctrine for him that meaneth to be an Apostata from all faith and truth, to set the father at as great enmity with his son, as our sins did deserve, or could provoke. The higth of Christ's not sparing himself was, as the Apostle teacheth, his obedience unto the death of the Cross; if you will have Christ's obedience stretch to the second death of the damned, you must get you some new Scriptures; these that are already written, witness no such thing.  
How be●…t you will lack no Scripture. For rather than you will acknowledge your want in that behalf, you will make every Chapter throughout the Bible to speak of your dreams. For even 
* 〈◊〉. pag. 〈◊〉.  here you quote Deutero: 10: 17 and Luc: 16: 17; in the first of which places the Scripture saith: 
l Deut. 10. 17.  The Lord your God is God of Gods, and Lord of Lords, a great God, mighty, and terrible, which accepteth no persons, nor taketh rewards. What is this to Christ's sufferings or to the pains of the damned? was it after noon, or after midnight, when you quoted these places, you knew not why nor wherefore? So play you with Luc: 16: 17. where it is said, 
m Luc. 16. 17.  It is more easy that heaven and earth should pass away, than that one tittle of the Law should fall. Will you hence infer, which is the thing that you should prove; ergo Christ was forsaken of all outward and inward comfort and joy? besides you no man hath the grace to make such fair and clear demonstrations of your doctrine.  

n Defence pag. 108. li. 21.  This forsaking or dereliction beseemeth the time, place, person and cause of Christ our ransom payer, and purchaser of salvation with the price of his own most direful pains: not any other far fet, or hardly applied, and strangely devised by the brains of men. As i●… truth all those other senses hereof are which you rather embrace.] Somewhat it was you mustered four places of Scripture so wisely chosen, and well becoming your cause, before you would offer to determine the matter; and now puffed up with pure pride, and pricked on with singular disdain, you censure the whole Church of Christ, and the chief lights and leaders thereof (I still except the Apostles) as perverters of the Scriptures, traducing their expositions, as far fet, hardly applied, and strangely devised by the brains of men. But if you so much despise their learning, religion, and judgements, who were God's blessed instruments to maintain his truth against all heresies, and his Church against all Schismatics, and think your brains to be more than the brains of a man; take heed lest your Reader begin to suspect you have the brains of some other kind. If Athanasius, Hilary, chrysostom, Basil, Cyrill, Epiphanius, Jerome, Ambrose, Augustine, Origen, Tertullian and Leo may not be thought, in the verdict of any wise or sober man, as likely to understand the sense of Christ's words on the cross, as your humorous and presumptuous, shall I say brain, which you so much abase in others, or head without brain; then I must confess my fault, who love not to lean to mine own wit in cases of faith, but rather prefer the religious and laborious inquiries of others, chiefly of learned and ancient Fathers, where it concerneth matters of salvation, and the grounds of Christian religion, which they carefully received, and faithfully delivered to God's people so many hundred years before we were borne. And what ma●…uell you be so bold with the brains of men, as you term it, when you take upon you to overrule the words of the Holy Ghost? For where in the sacred Scriptures the blood of Christ shed for us, is recorded to be the true price of our redemption, you controlling as well the Apostles as the Fathers, tell us here that Christ 
o Pa. 108. li. 23.  purchased our salvation with the price of his most direful pains; where by direful pains you mean hell pains, that your speech in this case may be as new as your faith. Belike then in your conceit Peter, Paul, and john, though Christ's Apostles, were never well Catechised nor instructed in their faith, since they affirm, 
p 1. Pet. 1.  we were redeemed by the precious blood of Christ, and 
q Ephes. 1.  we have redemption in Christ through his blood, and Christ 
r revel. 5.  by (his) blood redeemed us unto God; which lesson you like not, and therefore you say our salvation was purchased with the price of Christ's direful pains, that is, of hell pains suffered in the soul of Christ; which hath no blood, unless you can as easily devise new blood for Christ's soul, as you have done a new hell for Christ's sufferings. Till you so do, give me and other Christians leave to think, that the second death which you dream of, did neither beseem the time, place, person nor cause of Christ our Redeemer, and therefore his words on the cross could have no such reference, as you have riddled in this place.  

s Defenc. pag. 108. li. 27.  Your expositions are six in number; the first is, that when Christ on the cross cried out, My God my God why hast thou forsaken me, by this word ME he should mean his Church: for which you have no reason in the world, but the bare names of Austen, Leo, Athanasius.] The more the senses may be of these words, and every of them agreeing with Christian piety, as I professed of them, the less soundness is in your conclusion, that would infer upon a strange and needless sense of these words your pains of the damned to be then suffered in the soul of Christ. And in denying your direful exposition of Christ's words, I have all the Fathers of Christ's Church for 1400 years of the same opinion with me. And if your chief and capital proofs were such news to them, what think you was the rest of your new faith? [They are six in number, you say, and they all can not stand together.] You are nimble in trifles, and in substance no body. Nor I, nor any man living may take upon us to determine, which shall be the meaning of Christ's words, when the words themselves admit and allow many senses. In this very case the persons and the parts forsaken; the graces and degrees wherein, and how far that dereliction might extend, receive divers opinions; and though they be different, they are not repugnant the one to the other. And yet it is no news in many places of holy Scripture, by reason of the different or repugnant significations of the words, circumstances of the sentence and degrees of extension and intention in many things, to find contrary judgements of men even of the same words and things in holy writ. Neither do divers expositions disgrace the word of God, so long as they contain nothing repugnant to the text itself in that or any other place; but show rather the depth of God's wisdom, which encloseth many things in few words, and often passeth the reach and search of man's wit. But you, that carp at every thing besides your own conceits, would feign make your Reader believe, that siue fingers and one hand, ten toes and two feet can not stand together.  
For the matter itself, as dereliction is confessed on all sides, because it is mentioned in the words of Christ, so it may be questioned; of what persons, to what part, and in what things Christ conceined and intended that forsaking of which he spoke. For as God is said in the Scriptures to be present with us divers ways and to divers effects, namely when he lighteneth, strengtheneth, and inwardly guideth us with the grace of his spirit, or outwardly blesseth our ways, and heareth and helpeth us in time of trouble; so when he withdraweth or with holdeth any of these things from us, whether it be his help, his blessing, or his grace; he is said to depart, and to forsake us. Now if we take forsaking in Christ's words for the losing or lacking of God's 
What forsaking could not be found in Christ.  favour, grace, or spirit; it was not possible that any such forsaking should at any time be found in Christ our head, though the members of Christ do all well deserve to be deprived of all these things, and were deprived of them, till by Christ they were restored. Since then this kind of forsaking could never be verified of Christ's person, but only of his members, and he suffered for us, 
t Ephes. 2. 16.  to reconcile us to God by his Cross; these words of Christ on the Cross some learned Fathers have expounded to contain the reconciliation of man to God, who for sin had before forsaken us, and was now pacified by Christ's blood, and an entrance given us to the Father by virtue of Christ's oblation and petition for us. Wherefore in their judgements, as Christ then suffered for us, so he prayed in these words for us, and the near conjunction of Christ with us, as the head with his members, made him cover us, and present us to God under his own name, who was then and there no Redeemer of himself, but of us. Examples of this speech they have many and good: as where Christ said to Paul, 
u Acts 9  Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me; that is, my members? And again; I am jesus whom thou persecutest; that is, whose members thou pursuest. And in one 
x Matth. 25.  Chapter, where Christ foreshoweth the separation that he will make between the sheep and the goats, he calleth his brethren and servants by the name of himself no less than two and thirty times, saying: 
y Ibid. vers. 35.  I was hungry, and ye gave ME meat; I thirsted, and ye gave ME drink; I was a stranger, and ye lodged ME; 
z vers. 36.  I was naked, and ye clothed ME; I was sick, and ye visited ME: and so forth to the number that I named. And when the good marveled how ever they afforded any of these things to him, he answereth them; 
a verse 40.  Verily I say unto you, in as much as ye did it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye did it unto me. So that this exposition of Christ's speech concerneth directly the work that Christ had then in hand for us, and wanteth not Christ's warrant for the use of his own words; and this sense of that his prayer presenting and commending us to God, that were forsaken of God, was of no less weight for us than the rest of his sufferings.  

b Defenc. pag. 108. li. ●…0.  Show me their reasons, press not their authorities.] So saith he, that hath neither reason nor authority, and yet presseth his fancy upon the whole Church against all reason and authority. Their reasons I have showed to stand on a better foundation than your direful and infernal pains, or your astonished confusion and destitution of all inward and outward joy and comfort. And could you with half that soundness make good your hellish exposition, you should not show so great pride as you now do. For I utterly deny, that your exposition hath any ground in the word of God, but resteth only on your single and silly surmises in favour of your own fancies. And since you demand of all the Fathers a reason of all their expositions, how come you against all reason and truth to conclude the pains of the damned to be suffered in Christ's soul by pretence of this dereliction, when as the word throughout 
Dereliction in the Scriptures never implieth the pains of the damned.  the Scriptures never implieth the present state or pains of the damned? What defence can you have for your desperate adventure to plunge Christ's soul into the second death, which the Scripture calleth the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, since you want all, as well divine, as human reason and authority?  

c Defenc. pag. 1. 8. li. 31.  Yourself reject them when you list, though when you list again, they must be your best, yea your only reason.] A lie is a good shift with you, or else you would often lie in the mire. I do no where refuse the faith professed and preached in the primitive Church of Christ by the learned and ancient Pastors and Guiders thereof; I openly confess 
Wherein we should follow the Fathers.  to God and this Realm, I should never sleep quietly, if I saw myself to be of another faith than they were. In other things not pertinent to our salvation and redemption, where they themselves took liberty, either to dissent each from other in some questions, or sometimes upon better advice to correct or moderate their former opinions, I think myself not burdened in conscience, if I with modesty make choice, what I like best. Neither do I account it any disgrace, to make their faith deduced and confirmed by the word of God my best or only reason, since all heretics have subverted themselves and their followers, whiles they would show their inventions, and with plausible reasons fasten their fancies on the sacred Scriptures, not contenting themselves with those sober and sound interpretations of hard places, which the Church of Christ with long experience and great diligence had examined and tried. And howsoever for want of knowledge in the Hebrew tongue they might sometimes come short, yet this was their general care in all their expositions and applications, never to serve from the Canons of the Christian faith, I speak of those, whom the Church accepted and allowed for truly Catholic. Yet to their interpretations I bind no man's conscience, farther than evident truth shall appear to be in them; only I wish others, and even you, Sir inventor, not overhastily to despise their judgements, which the Church of God hath so many hundred years reverenced and followed. Howbeit, this is a bar sufficient to your bold devices, that where you would derive your hell pains from Christ's complaint. on the Cross, I bring you five or six expositions of those words out of the ancient and catholic fathers, whereof you shall never be able to refute one, which no way touch your hellish torments, and thereby teach you, if you be capable either of verity or sobriety, that your conclusion more than halteth in the highest mysteries of christian Religion.  

d Def. pag. 108 li. 33. li. 38.  If these Fathers be understood, as before I have showed Cyprians meaning to be, than they agree just with our mind herein: for then doubtless it was for the infinite pains, which now he felt in our stead, that he so cried out, My God my God why hast thou for sakenmee.] After you have played your part with reveling at their expositions, will you now flatter them afresh, & join hands with them, so they will be of your mind? In vain do you strive to bring them to that which they never intended, but ever detested. What kind of dereliction Cyprian confesseth to have been in Christ, is evident by his words: 
e Cyprianus de passione Christi.  Quod pro eis voluisti intelligi, qui deseri à Dea propter peccata meruerant, quorum reconciliationis causam agebas, in qua all gator subtilis pro servis seruilem non dedignaris accipere personam, ET IN TANTUM infirmis compatcris, ut nec crucifigi, nec mori, nec crubescas, nec for●…ides, altitudinem tuam derelinquens ad tempus, gloriae tuae maiest●…tem evacuans, ut redeant dispersi, & respirent derelicti. The words of thy complaint on the Cross (saith Cyprian to Christ) thou wouldst have to be understood for 〈◊〉, who had deserved by their sins to be forsaken of God; whose cause, to reconcile them, 〈◊〉 than undertookest; and as a most skilful Patron for servants thou diddest not disdain to take the person of a servant, and SO far thou didst compassionate the weak, that thou wast neither afraid, nor ashamed to be crucified and to die, leaving for a time thine own higth, and emptying the majesty of thy glory, that the dispersed might return, and the forsaken might take breath, (or comfort). The forsaking, which Cyprian here describeth in Christ, consisteth in leaving of his divine power and glory for a time, and in abasing himself SO far, as to die the death of the Cross for their sakes, but no farther. And these words he saith Christ would have understood to be a cause of their Reconciliation to God, who had deserved for their sins to be forsaken of God, and therefore he addeth presently 
f 〈◊〉.  I consider thee Lord, on that cross, where thou seemedst without help (or forsaken), how with an Imperial power thou didst send the thief before to thy kingdom by assuming of whom it is manifest how much thou hadst prevailed for those, that were forsaken. You would feign so wrest Cyprians words, that he should say Christ undertook our cause and no more, but he withal affirmeth, that Christ took upon him our person, and that his careful complaint were the words of his beloved. If the words were spoken as well in our person, as in our cause, than we were indeed forsaken, and Christ by laying down his glory for a time, and obeying his father's will, did by those words declare, that he reconciled us to God, when we were forsaken, and in sign thereof with full power made the thief partaker of his kingdom, that had deserved, and was condemned to die the death of a for lost and forsaken malefactor.  

g Defenc. pag. 109. li. 2.  If you think they meant that Christ spoke this by some strange metonymy, naming himself, but meaning his Church, that can have no good sense.] I shall not need to tell you 
The first sense of 〈◊〉 complaint on the Crosse.  what I think, let them speak themselves, what they meant, and when you have heard their meaning out of their own words, you shall see how much you abused Cyprian to make him speak that he neverment. It is plain enough which Athanasius saith. 
h Athana●…ius de incarnatione Christi.  Christ spoke those words in our person, for he was never forsaken of God. and Austen is as evident. 
i August epist. 120.  why disdain we to hear the voice of the body by the mouth of the head? to me, that is to my body, my church, and my little ones. So was it said, why hast thou forsaken me; even as it was said he that receiveth you receiveth me. No doubt we were in those words, and the head did speak for his body. And likewise Leo 
k Leo Serm. 16. de P●…ss. Dom.  Christ spoke those words in the voice of his Redeemed. Neither are they alone in this opinion. Theodoret satith 
l Theodoret. i●… Psalm 21.  because Christ was the head of man's nature, he speaketh for the whole nature of man. So Bede 
m 〈◊〉 a in Psal. 21.  Quare dereliquistime, idestmeos? ideo scilicet quia longè te fecerunt peccata esse à salute mea, id est meorum. Hec verbaplane innuunt caput non in persona sua hic loqui. Quomodo enim derelictus, vellonge à salute factus posset esse ille? Why hast thou forsaken me, that is mine? because sin did put thee far from saving me, that is mine. These words do plainly prove, that the head doth not here speak in his own person. For how could he possibly be forsaken, or removed from salvation? And Euthymius 
n 〈◊〉 in Psal. 21.  The Lord taketh unto him the person of man's nature, as linked to him; and saith, why hast thou forsaken me (now) a man, that is the whole nature of man? And Damascene. 
o 〈◊〉 Orthodox fidei. li. 3. ca 24.  Christ was never forsaken of his own Godhead, but we were those that were forsaken and despised. Wherefore appropriating our person, he prayed in that sort. And expressing what it is to appropriate, or assume an others person, he saith. As when a man doth put on an others person of piety or charitic, and in his steed useth speech for him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which agreeth not unto himself. If then we take dereliction for the want of God's favour, spirit, and grace, as these Fathers do; it is evident Christ could not so be forsaken; and consequently these words in that sense, which is proper to the Children of God's wrath, could not agree to the person of Christ, though it were true in his members, that they by nature were forsaken and destitute of grace, till he reconciled them to God, and diffused his spirit into their hearts to make them partake●…s of his holiness. And as for the strangeness of the metonymy, count you that strange, which Christ useth in one Chapter more than thirty times, and find you no strangeness in your conceits, which are no where throughout the Scriptures either expressed, or so much as coherent with the continual speech and plain rules of the Scriptures?  

p Defenc. pag. 109. li. 5.  That can have no good sense. For how can it be that we were forsaken of God, when Christ was on the Cross? Nay even then and there we were purchased unto God, not forsaken by God. Doth any man use, when he would make reasons for his opinion, to refu●…e himself, as you do, we were purchased you say on the Cross unto God; you must add, by the blood of his son, which was also God, for that Saint Paul in the pl●…ce, which you cite, nameth as the true and right price of this purchase. God purchased (his Church) with his own blood, and not by the direful pains of hell, as your brain hath lately broached. Now if we were purchased on the Cross, then till we were purchased, we were enstranged from God, and so forsaken of him. And what hindereth this complaint or prayer of Christ's to bear witness, that we were now reconciled and purchased unto God, which before were forsaken and separated from God? For those words do not imply, that we still continued forsaken, but that formerly without Christ we were utterly forsaken, and now by him restored to favour. And the goodness of this sense, I do not think but any man of mean capacity will soon conceive, and judge it more fruitful for us to know, that by Christ's mediation and oblation on the cross we are now no longer strangers unto God, nor forsaken of him, as before we were for our sins; then that Christ suffered the direful and infernal pains and death of the damned in his Soul, before we could be freed from our sins. For of the first there can be no question, and of the second, you neither have, nor ever shall be able to bring one line or letter of holy Scripture.  

q Defence pag. 109. li. 7.  Again your own rule is, which I like well, that no figure is to be admitted in Scriptures where there is no ill nor hurtful sense following literally. But I ha●…e showed a little before a plain, easy and Christian sense hereof taking it literally.] The rule is most needful to preserve the right sense of the Scripture. For if every man may elude with figures that, which liketh not his humour, we shall have little truth left in the word of God. But even by that rule your sense of Christ's complaint is quite overthrown, because your exposition plainly fasteneth desperation for the time to the Soul of Christ. For all hope hath joy and comfort in it. 
r Rom. 12.  Rejoicing in hope, saith the Apostle. If then 
Christ never forsaken of hope and comfort.  Christ for that season of his Passion were all comfortless, as you pretend, and had no sense nor feeling of any comfort or joy, he had no hope; for hope bringeth joy and comfort. And what is no hope, but despair? that therefore the literal sense of these words neither is, nor can be true, taking dereliction for the inward forsaking of God's grace and spirit, as well the Scriptures, as the Fathers, whom I have produced, do with one voice confirm. Saint Austen may serve to show the reason, that led him and the rest so to think. 
s August. in Psal. 43.  Ille caput nostrum, vocem de cruse non dixit suam, sed nostram. non enim unquam dereliquit eum Deus, sed propter nos dixit hoc, Deus, Deus meus ut quid me dereliquisti. Christ our head uttered not his own words, but ours. For God never at any time forsook him. But for us he said, My God my God, why hast thou forsaken me?  

t Defenc. pag. 109. li. 19  Finally this first sense is contrary to your second and third following: also to your fifth and sixth senses. If either of these be taken as the true meaning of this place, it cannot possibly stand with the rest.] I did not profess to discuss the likeliest sense of those words; It sufficed me to let you see the weakness of your cause in deriving your hell pains from Christ's complaint on the cross, by this that twelve ancient and learned Fathers did diversly sift and examine those words, and yet none of them ever lighted on your second death, or on the forsaking, which you labour to establish in the soul of Christ. Now if the words do tolerably bear so many interpretations, what assurance had you thence to conclude your hellish confusion, which you imagine in the Saviour of the world? yea grant the expositions were contrary, which indeed are somewhat different, according as the word of dereliction is applied and intended, that maketh the more against you, and hindereth not me. For still I urge the words, which you stand on, do necessarily infer no such sense, as you would fasten to them. The thing, that I press, is this, that there are many other senses of these words approved and preferred by the consent of the best writers old and new; and yours of all others, as it hath no consent of Christ's Church, ne was ever heard of before our age, so hath it no foundation in the Sacred Scriptures. You would disgrace the Fathers as iwentors of strange and new senses, but you little remember all this while, that of all others yours is the latest, absurdest, and least likely sense of that complaint. And yet if you wrest it to the lowest step of dereliction, that this life knoweth, or the Scripture here 〈◊〉, it may amount to desperation, but never to real and actual damnation.  

u Defenc. pag. 109. li. 23.  Your second sense what is it? even this that Christ's human Nature was left helpless to the rage of the jews, which is a kind of forsaking. This seemeth to come nearest indeed to your liking, but as I said thi●… is directly contrary to your first sense, and to the rest following.] They that give diverse senses of any places in Scripture, do not mean they 
The second sense of Christ's complaint on the cross.  shall be wholly like, or the same; for than they were not diverse; but according to the variety of significations, and circumstances offered by the words, they vary their expositions. So here, if we take dereliction for loss of grace, than that sense of the word could not agree to Christ, but to the reprobate without Christ, or to the rest before they be engrafted into Christ, and consequently me in Christ's words must signify my Members, that were one body with him. If we take it for lack of help in time of trouble, than it might well agree unto the person of Christ, who was forsaken, that is left in his affliction, and not delivered from it, till he died, that we might ever after be restored, and reconciled to the favour of God. Which cometh nearest to my liking, I never acquainted you; the places which you quote, prove no such thing; they only show, that this exposition hath sufficient foundation in other places of Scripture, where the word forsaking is used to the like intent. Howbeit there is no cause that I, or you should mislike this exposition; and the trifles, which you object against it, will confirm as much.  

x Defenc. pag. 109. li. 29.  There is surely no reason, nor show of Reason, that Christ should here so mournfully and so ●…ncomfortably complain, that God had forsaken him, if it were only, but for such distresses as the godly also do equally suffer at the hands of evil men.] Had you but perused the places, by which you conclude my liking of this Exposition, you should have seen Reason, and reason enough for Christ to be thus affected in his extreme miseries, as well as his Church is in the like, or less. Had the Church of God no reason to say in the Prophet Esay. 
y Esa. 49.  The Lord hath forsaken me? or did God want reason in his answer, when he said; 
z Esa. 54. ver. 7.  for a while I forsook thee, for a moment in (mine) anger I hid my face from thee? If then God had Reason to say to his Church, 
a Ibid. ver. 6.  the Lord hath called thee a woman forsaken, and afflicted in spirit, could Christ want reason in his intolerable pains on the Cross to complain, that he was now a long time left in them without help or ease? as for the equal sufferings of the godly at the hands of men, on which you would take advantage. I have showed the difference before. When pains in others grow sharpest, than sense decayeth, and'death approacheth; in the pains whereof men cannot express how much nature misliketh and abhorreth the pain. In Christ it was otherwise: his body being in exquisite pains on every side, and in every part from 
Christ's patience was at the highest proof before he complained on the cross.  top to toe, and hanging in that plight now three hours on the cross, when the pain was greatest, and himself weakest, his sense was quickest, which could not be overwhelmed in him, as it is in us; but he endured most horrible anguish all that time, and therefore when his patience was at the highest proof, he had more than reason to complain, that he had long been left in that extremity without assistance or deliverance; and he that doubteth thereof, showeth that his fancy doth overrule his reason, and his will doth undermine his wit.  

b Defenc. pag. 109. li. 35.  Note this well, that no godly 〈◊〉 nor martyr did ever ascribe thi●… forsaking of themselves to God in the time of their martyrdoms.] But note this better, that you avouch a notable ●…alsehood even against the express witness of the Holy Ghost. When the Angel of God 
c judg. 6. v. 13.  appeared to Gedeon, and said unto 〈◊〉, The Lord is with thee thou valiant man; Gedeon answered, A●… my Lord, if the Lord be with us, why then is all this come upon us? did not the Lord bring us out of Egypt? but now the Lord hath forsaken us, and delivered us into the hands of the Midianites. So the godly by the mouth of jeremy; 
d jer. 14. v. 8. 9  O the hope of Israel, the 〈◊〉 thereof in the time of trouble, why art thou as a stranger in the land, and as a strong man that can not belpe? thy name is called upon us, forsake us not. And speaking of the captivity of God's people, saith, 
e Lament. 〈◊〉. vers. 5. 20.  Our necks are under persecution, we are weary and have no rest. Wherefore dost thou forget us for ever, and forsake us so long time? Yea the godly in far less afflictions than was Christ on the cross, have used far more grievous complaints. 
f Psal. 89.  Thou hast rejected and abhorred thine aneinted, thou hast broken the covenant of thy servant, and profaned his crown to the ground. Lord how long wilt thou hide thyself, for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire? Now if martyrs do not confess before their enemies and persecutors, that God hath forsaken them, what is that to this purpose, so long as they in their prayers to God desire him not to forsake them; and their flesh in their torments struggleth and striveth, as neither willing nor able to bear the burden?  
Again Christ's prayers made with so loud a voice in the ears of all his adversaries, had an other meaning, then to acknowledge, as they objected unto him, that he was indeed forsaken of God; which was to hasten now the time of his death for an end 
God showed by the present 〈◊〉 that he had not forsaken his son.  of his pains, and to besecch his father, that had all this while forborn to show any open sign of liking and love towards him being so much afflicted and reproached by the jews, now when he should leave this life, to let them all see how much God regarded and glorified the person of his Son: both which God accordingly performed: for straightways with a second prayer Christ commending his spirit into his Father's hands, did voluntarily, but miraculously breath out his soul; and 
g Matth. 27. vers. 51.  BEHOLD (saith the Scripture, that is, immediately, and to all their admirations) the vail of the Temple did rend in twain, the earth did quake, the stones did cleave, 
h 52.  and the graves did open; which things were so fearful and wonderful, that when 
i Vers. 54.  the Centurion, and they that were with him watching jesus, saw the earth Quake, and the things that were done, they greatly feared, and said, truly this man was the son of God. Here is the intent and effect of Christ's complaint on the cross expressed, that when he had now three hours endured most extreme pains in all parts of his body, and heard the insolent and pestilent reproaches of his pursuers objecting to him, that he did falsely call himself the son of God, since in his greatest necessity God did neither deliver him, nor any way regard him; he at the time appointed by his father, made his complaint to God with a loud voice, that they all might hear him, that he was now a long time forsaken, that is LEFT in this anguish and ignominy without any show of his father's love towards him. Whereupon presently Christ before 
k john 18.  Knowing all that should come unto him, and so knowing what should be the issue of this his prayer to his no small comfort was permitted to breath out his soul with great power, and the temple, the earth, the Rocks renting, shaking and cleaving asunder gave manifest testimony to those that watched him, that he was the son of God, for so much as all these things were done at his petition, to declare that God had not forsaken his son, though he suffered him to die that death on the cross for causes then to them unknown. And so this prayer, which you would have to be a most mournful and uncomfortable complaint of inward forsaking in soul and spirit, was an effectual and powerful prayer provoking God his father to demonstrate by most marvelous signs and wonders the exceeding love and honour, that he bore to the tormented and despised person of his son. This Athanasius observed before me. Lo (saith he) 
l Athanasius contra 〈◊〉 oratio 4.  upon Christ's speech, why hast thou forsaken me, the father showed himself to be even then in Christ, as ever before. For the earth knowing her Lord to speak, straightway trembled, and the vail rend in twain, and the Sun did hide himself, and the Rocks clave insunder, and the Graves were opened, and the dead in them rose. And that which was (no les●…e) marvelous, the standers by, which before denied him, seeing what came to pass, confessed him truly to be the son of God. This Bernard saith was the dereliction, that Christ meant in his complaint. 
m Bernardus d●… verbis Esai●… Serm. 5.  Quasi qu●…dam ibi derelictio fuit, ubi nulla fuit in tanta necessitate virtut is exhibitio, nulla maiestatis ostensio. There was (on the Cross) a kind of forsaking (of Christ,) where there was in so great necessity no demonstrance of his power, no declarance of his majesty.  

n Defenc. pag. 110. li..  It is a great shame to imagine that Christ was less able to endure such a dereliction, or that he would thus complain and mourn for it only.] It is a greater shame and sin first to mistake, and then to disgrace the words of Christ. What rule either of reason or piety could hinder our Saviour (when his time drew near, that he would die, and ease himself of his exceeding pains on the cross,) earnestly to call to God, even now to declare, which he had all this while refrained, what account he made of that person, whom the jews and Gentiles so much despised and oppressed? was it any shame for the manhood of Christ to say, my God, my God, why hast thou (so long) forsaken me; without any public sign or show, that thou lovest and favourest me, whom this nation had so much wronged and blasphemed? or is it of late become so shameful a thing with you, that Christ should complain he was forsaken and left in the hands of his pursuers without help or ease? both old and new writers even of the best learned, that have been in Christ's Church, have thought it no shame for Christ in that very respect so to speak. 
o Hieronym. in Matth ca 27.  Marvel not (saith Ierom) at Christ's complaint of being forsaken, when thou seest the scandal of his cross. 
p 〈◊〉. de fide li. 2. ca 3.  He speaketh as a man, saith Ambrose (which was no shame for him to do) because being in danger we think ourselves forsaken of God. The same words 
q 〈◊〉 in Mar. ca 14.  Bede, 
r 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 ca 27.  Rabanus, and 
r 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 ca 27.  Aquinas repeat and follow. Theodoret saith; Christ 
s 〈◊〉. in 〈◊〉. 21.  calleth that a dereliction, which was a permission of the divinity, that the humanity should suffer. Christ would endure (saith Austen) this unto death in the sight of his enemies, that they might take him as one forsaken. Lyra. 
u 〈◊〉 Mat. ca 27.  Dixit 〈◊〉 derclictum a deo 〈◊〉, quia dimittebat cum in manibus occidentium. Christ saith he was forsaken of God his father, because he was left in the hands of those that slew him. And so our new writers. 
August epist. 120  
x 〈◊〉 in Mat. ca 27.  Hic questus est se in manibus impiorum adomnem ipsorum libidinem a patre derelictum. Christ here complained (saith Bucer) that he was forsaken of his father (or left) in the 〈◊〉 of the wicked to endure all their rage. Bullinger. 
y Bullingerus in Matth. ca 27.  Derelinquere sive deserere in 〈◊〉 est permittere. To forsake or leave (in Christ's words on the Cross) is to permit. So that this was Christ's meaning, why dost thou suffer me to be thus afflicted? why dost thou permit these things to mine enemies? when wilt thou deliver me? Munster: 
z Munsterus in Psalm. 21.  haec Christi verbanon impatientiam aliquam, aut diffidenntiam prae se ferunt etc.: these words of Christ, (My God my God why hast thou forsaken me?) show no impatience, or diffidence, but declare that he was a true man, and that he had truly suffered.  
And what if, as some learned Fathers conceive, Christ did not grievously complain in those words, that he was forsaken, but thereby led his enemies to look and search in the Psalms & Prophets for the cause, why the messias should be so forsaken & delivered into the hands of sinners, as they saw he was? 
a August. epist. 120.  Christ doth not say (saith Austen) my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me, sed causum commonuit requirendam, cum addidit, ut quid dereliquisti me, id est propter quid, quam ob causam? but he admonished the cause to be searched, when he added, why hast thou forsaken me, that is to what end, and for what cause? for truly there was a cause, and that no small cause, why God would not deliver Christ from the hands of the jews, but leave him in the power of his persecutors, till he died. Leo likewise. 
b Leo de Passione 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 17.  Therefore Christ cried with a loud voice, why hast thou forsaken me, that he might make it known to all, for what cause he ought not to be delivered, nor defended, sed saevientium manibus derelinqui, but to be left in the hands of his pursuers, which was to be made the Saviour of the world, and the Redeemer of all men, non per miseriam, sed per misericordiam, non amissione auxilij, sed definitione moriendi; not by any miserable necessity, but of mercy; not for lack of help, but of purpose to die (for us). Whether then Christ's meaning in those words (if we apply them to his own person) were to hasten the time of his death, which he knew was at hand, and should bring him case of his excessive 
How many meanings 〈◊〉 words on the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 have.  pains, or to move his father to demonstrate by those signs, which followed, what favour and affection he bore to the person of his son, though for our sakes he suffered him thus to be used: or to teach his persecutors, that there was a cause, which they knew not, why himself being their messias should die this death on the cross, or last whether his manhood conformed itself to the desires and groans of his church and members, whom the Prophets teach in this wise to pray, when they were oppressed with any great calamity or misery: none of these ways I say are the words of Christ on the cross chalengeable, but they stand well with the piety, patience, confidence and expectance, that were in Christ, and have better foundation in the sacred Scriptures than your pains of the damned, or your second death to be then and there suffered in the soul of Christ.  

c Defenc. pag. 110. li. 7.  The bare names again of Austen, Ambrose, jerom do here likewise no good, this is but a weak kind of reasoning for so learned a Divine as you are.] I like better this kind of weakness in matters of faith to have the consent of the learned and ancient fathers for that I teach, than your kind of strength, which is to be so stiff in your private conceits, that you will delude the Scriptures with your figures, and deride the fathers as silly fools not understanding the first principles of Religion, rather than you will forego the least of your fancies. If you light on any Reader of the same mind let him know, that the choice willbe hard for him to make, whether all the fathers in Christ's Church did err in the chief grounds of their faith, or he himself be out of the truth. If Christian Religion were not since Christ's time before our age, this is a greater forsaking of Christ, than any was on the Crosse. For then hath God forgotten all his purposes and promises so often mentioned in the Prophets, and confirmed to Christ; if there were never Church of Christ since the Apostles death till our days. And he that is of that humour, it skilleth not greatly of what side he be, for certainly he can be no member of Christ's Church, that rejecteth all persons, places, and ages before his birth, as none of Christ's. I wish no wise nor sober Reader so far to venture his soul. If then to the Primative Church of Christ next after the Apostles we yield but ordinary knowledge of the Christian faith, we may not take from so many learned fathers and Pastors, as God hath for so many hundred years adorned his Church withal, the common understanding of their Catechism and Creed, how we were saved, and what is the price of our Redemption, specially the Scriptures going so clear with them, and they teaching so closely and sound the truth there expressed.  

d Defenc. pag. 110. li. 9  These very sentences of the fathers I can easily admit, if they import no more, then that those outward afflictions on the Cross were SOME CAUSES (AND THAT NO SMALL) of his complaint, always remembering that some greater cause also did concur and was conjoined with them.] Then by your own confession have the fathers spoken truth, and there was small or no cause, given you, to make so light regard of them. As for your other greater cause, when you prove by Scripture, as you intent, that Christ's soul on the cross suffered the second death, and the pains of the damned, you shall have a special reservation, that your fancies may be conjoined with Christ's prayers: otherwise your reasons be like your resolutions, they have neither proof nor strength besides your own private and presumptuous persuasions.  

e Defenc. pag. 110. li. 14.  Your third sense if I conceive it aright, is; that his being left to bodily death caused him thus to mourn, which is but as the last before. And yet you seem to mean not only that, but also because his flesh now should want all feeling of his heavenly comfort for that while that it should remain dead. A marvelous exquisite and far fet cause.] The sense is neither mine, nor so far fet as you would make it. I took it out of Tertullian, Hilary, and 
The third sense of Christ's complaint on the cross.  Epiphanius, whose words I produced to that purpose; and howsoever you gibe at it after your scornful manner, I suppose it will prove sounder than your hellish death, which you have so learnedly devised out of their words. The difference betwixt this and the former sense is not great. For there the fathers meant Christ was forsaken, that is not delivered from the rage of his persecutors, whiles he lived; and these do add, that he was left unto death, presuming death to be the greatest and most grievous of all outward afflictions, which in this life befall the nature of man.  

f Defenc. pag. 110. li. 19  Yet me thinks as this crosseth your other expositions here, so it is flat contrary to the Scripture also.] If the expositions were contrary each to other, so long as they be sundry men's, and repeated only by me to show how many senses have been delivered in the Church of Christ by learned and ancient Fathers touching that complaint or prayer of Christ, which you would feign abuse to hatch your hell-paines; what else note you by their contratiety, but the diversity of men's judgements upon these words; all which conjoined in this against you, that Christ's complaint on the cross may diversly be conceived according to the different acceptions of forsaking, and yet your pains of the damned have no place in that variety or contrariety of ●…enses? But this third sense you say, is flat contrary to the Scripture.] That were worth the hearing indeed, if your foolish conceits were not far more likely to cross both themselves & the Scriptures, then justly to control the judgements of so learned fathers. But what is this great oversight, that is so much repugnant to the Scripture? the Scripture 
g Ibid. li. 21.  giveth after a sort to Christ's dead flesh this LIVELY AFFECTION, my flesh shall rest in hope.] The soul of Christ, which was replenished with life, truth, and grace, as being personally united unto God, and of whose fullness we all have received, you affirm died on the Cross, and none other death than the second death: and Christ's flesh lying dead in the grave you imagine not only to have life, but to be a living spirit. For you give unto it the lively affection of hope; which nothing hath, that is not a living and reasonable soul, or more. You do it, you will say but after a sort.] That sort is absurd enough, of figurative speeches in the Scriptures to make positive doctrines. For if you defend, that the dead flesh of Christ in the grave had indeed any lively affection of hope in part or in whole, it is a brutish heresy denying that Christ was truly dead, and that his body was truly flesh; since a lively hope impo●…teth not only life, but understanding and faith. If you grant these speeches to be figurative, then do you betray your folly, to thwart the father's assertions with figurative flourishes, as if they were proper; and to pronounce their sayings flat contrary to the Scriptures, because you can pike out a word, that in outward show soundeth somewhat strangely. Hope in these words of David is either applied to the soul of Christ in respect of the resurrection of his body, which he believed and hoped for as most assured; or if we apply it to the body, it noteth safety from corruption, and promise made by God of speedy resurrection, which was the thing wherewith Christ's body might be invested. But we shall have mainer proof for this matter.  

h Defenc. pag. 110. li. 24.  Is it likely, is it possible, that he should so dolefully mourn that either he should bodily die, or that his body should want the sense of his divine presence so little a while, when as in HIS MINDHE SPEAKETH SO TRIUMPHANTLY of his CONSTANT and CONTINVALLIOY IN GOD: yea not excluding even his body though dead from participating in some sort therein: as we read in the former place at large? I 
i Act 2. 26 27.  BEHEID the Lord always 
The Defender 〈◊〉 contradicteth his own doctrine.  before me, for he is at my right hand, that I should not b●… shaken. Therefore did mine heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad, and moreover my flesh shall rest in hope. Now can a man in this EXCEEDING GENERAL and CONSTANTIOY so uncomfortably mourn in that sense as you urge, My God, my God why forsakest thou my flesh? it cannot be.] I would not think it likely, nor possible, if I did not see it before mine eyes, that such a pert Proctor should so proudly despise all ancient writers and fathers, that favour not his faction, and yet so palpably confound himself and his whole cause with overmuch prating. For (Christian Reader I pray thee) take no more but his own confession or assertion in this place, by which he thought to overbear all that stood in his way, and observe both how desperately he contradicteth himself, and how sensibly he subverteth his whole doctrine and his device of this new found hell. But the lease before he told us peremptorily, that 
k Pa. 108. li. 8.  Christ's Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding itself from him for that season of his passion gave him NO SENSE, NOR FEELING OF COMFORT OR JOY in spirit, soul, or body. Now suddenly whiles he eagerly hunteth after his hell pains, he not only falleth over head and ears into the mire of contradictions, but he clearly confesseth before hand, that all which himself will say touching the second death of Christ's soul on the cross, is apparently false doctrine, and evidently repugnant to the sacred Scriptures. Thou wilt marvel much at this, and so do I; but that Liars are often so earnest to serve their turns and not the truth, that they forget their former tales, whiles they invent newer. As here for example.  
He that would before allow to Christ on the cross NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORT OR JOY, in spirit, soul or body; Now urgeth, to promote another purpose, Christ's EXCEEDING GENERAL AND CONSTANT JOY even at the same time, when he spoke these words, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me: and not content with this, he addeth, that Christ even then IN HIS MIND SPOKE TRIUMPHANTLY OF HIS CONSTANT and CONTINVALL JOY in GOD; and proveth it by the words of the holy Ghost, where David being a Prophet spoke concerning Christ on the Cross, that he 
l Acts 2.  beheld the Lord always before him at his right hand, that he should not be shaken. And therefore did Christ's hart rejoice, and his tongue was glad. Understand you, sit faith-maker, the difference or repugnance between NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORTOR JOY, in spirit, soul, or body, 
A most shameful contradiction.  and EXCEEDING GENERAL, CONSTANT, and TRIUMPHANT JOY in GOD in the mind of Christ? can you read this, and not think you reel, as your reasons do to and fro? can you salve this sore without sweeting? or make up this breach without blushing? and I pray you since the ground of these words is true, in that it is the holy Ghosts, and you may not fly from your own inference, which you press so violently against the fathers to beat down their exposition, how could Christ's Soul on the cross IN THIS EXCEEDING GENERAL, CONTINVALL, CONSTANT, and TRIUMPHANT JOY OF MIND suffer also the pains of the damned and the second death, wherein IS NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF ANY COMFORT OR JOY IN body, soul, or spirit? Can you hang these gymmoes together, that the one shall not cry shameful and intolerable falsehood against the other? the best excuse, that I can make for your, to save you from ebriety or frenzy, is that these things were posted over to you from divers, that saw not each others fancies, and so without due perusing or remembering, where they crossed each other, you patched their papers together with more haste then good speed. How beit surely I take it to be a just judgement of God, when you are divided from the truth, to divide either your tongues from your hearts, or your hearts from themselves, that all men may learn to take heed how they dally with the Christian faith, or delude the Scriptures. I thank God I hate you not so much, but for your own sake I could wish, you had been silenter, or circumspecter.  
And see how evil you luck, or at least your cause is. For here have you spoken enough to confute all that you formerly have said, and afterward will say, and yet you have brought nothing to infringe that which I said. For a natural sear and mislike of death, as also grief and sharpness of pain in the body may well stand with a continual and constant comfort in God; yea where grace is present and prevaileth, the 
m 2 Cor. 4.  perishing of the outward man bringeth the renewing of the inward man, and bitter affliction maketh us seek after God, and call upon him the more earnestly for his assistance; in which case it is most true, that God's 
n 2. Cor. 12.  power is perfected in our infirmity. For, when I am weak (saith the Apostle, in body,) than I am strong, in spirit. And if Paul could 
o 2. Cor. 12.  delight in reproaches, persecutions and anguishes for Christ's sake, and yet feel the smart of them, could not Christ retain comfort in his afflictions, though his flesh were pressed with extreme pain?  
Many things more may be strongly alleged against this opinion.] With such strength as you have already showed, whereneither words nor matter shall hang together. [
p Defenc. pag. 110 li. 37.  As first: that seeing he perfectly knew that as his flesh should now quietly rest, so his soul should enjoy perfect glory and comfort more then before it did.] That doth not quench the detestation, 
Was there no comfort in all this?  which man's nature hath of death even by God's ordinance; though it comfort and courage the soul in hope of future bliss to endure the pain and horror of death. S. Austen saith, 
q August. epistola 120.  Nemo unquam carnem suam odio habuit, et praeterea non vult anima vel ad tempus abeius etiam insirmitate descedere, quamuis 〈◊〉 se sine infirmitate in aeternum recepturamesse confidat. Tantam habet vim, carnis & animae dulce consortium. No man ever hated his own flesh, and therefore the soul is not willing to depart even from the weakness of the body for a time, though she believe, that she shall receive her flesh again for ever without infirmity. Of so great 〈◊〉 is the sweet 〈◊〉 betwixt the soul and the body. And so again 
r 〈◊〉 tract. in 〈◊〉 123.  This affection of man's weakness, whereby no man is willing to die, is so natural, that age could not take it from blessed Peter, to whom it was said (by Christ,) when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 old, thou shalt be led whither thou wouldst not. And to comfort us our 〈◊〉 himself (assumed and) showed this (affection) in himself, when he said, Father if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. So that these respects made Christ the more comfortable in death, but by no means did utterly quench the natural dislike, that Christ's manhood had, and lawfully might have of death, knowing it to be the punishment of sin, and dissolution of our creation, though by God's goodness it be now made a pass●…ge in his to a better life. Your next reason is of the same stamp. The resurrection of the body maketh no man willing to die, if he could with God's liking decline death, but obedience overruleth the natural instinct, that God hath impressed in us to abhor death. And where you take it for a mighty'pillar in your building, that Christ 
s Pa. 111. li. 6.  would not so extremely mourn and complain only for this cause, as my fancy importeth, you build but on sand, which will have the greater fall. For I show you many more causes and senses of those words, than this only; all which you kindly skip, and pretend this only which I never professed, calling it my fancy, that I cited out of ancient and reverend writers.  

t Defenc. pag. 111. li. 8  Further he knew perfectly, that this was the very appointment of God for the obtaining of his most desired purchase of our health, for the more advancing of God's glory, and for the advancing of his very manhood. Finally, it was his own most free and foredetermined will: would he then so mournfully grieve and complain thereat? It hath no reason nor likelihood in it.] You run yourself out of breath, and quite besides the way. You shall not need to persuade me, that Christ was resolved and willing to die; I perfectly believe it, and easily confess it: but how? as he himself declared, the spirit was willing, the flesh was weak. The mind of Christ apprehended and pursued all these things which you mention, but that excludeth not the natural dislike which Gods will is all men should have of death. This imperfection of man's nature, since it pleased Christ to taste, as well as the rest of our infirmities and affections, you may by no respects nor rewards, make the weakness of Christ's flesh, to which he submitted himself, the 
Weakness appeared in Christ's flesh, but willingness in his spirit.  same or equal with the willingness of his spirit, which had and showed the abundance of all grace. Wherefore I maintain both in Christ, a voluntary sense of the weakness of our flesh, and an heavenly strength of the inward man, which expressed, but overballanced the natural desire of the outward man in Christ. And still you harp on that one string, which is utterly out of tune, that he would not do it So extremely and So mournfully. This extremity is only your fancy; for I say Christ did it meekly, obediently, and faithfully, assuring himself, that his Father, who all this while had tried his patience, would at his prayer not only end his pain, but make heaven and earth to witness, what account God made of him, though for a season he left him in their hands to be made a sacrifice for our sins.  

u Defenc. pag. 111. li. 15.  Lazarus when he was returned from the joys of heaven to take again his rotten carcase, yet he grieved not at it, nor ought he so to have done.] When you sink in reasons, you ascend to revelations. Who told you, that the soul of Lazarus was in the joys of heaven, when Christ raised his body from the grave? Christ placeth the soul of the other Lazarus, that died at the rich man's door, in Abraham's bosom to be comforted; and do you take upon you to place this Lazarus, that was brother to Marie and Martha, in the very joys of heaven? Where was his soul those four days, you will ask? It is not for you to ask, nor for me to answer. The things after this life, and out of this world, it is not lawful for me or you farther to inquire, than the Scripture revealeth. That such as are raised from the dead should be able by experience to report the joys of heaven or the pains of hell, or the secrets of God's kingdom; is a thing not permitted by God, as we find by Abraham's answer to the rich man praying that Lazarus might be sent to his father's house. God hath places and Angels enough to keep the souls of such, as he meaneth shallbe returned to this life, though it be neither in hell nor in heaven. From hell no man is released, and from heaven no man is dismissed that hath once seen God face to face. When 
x 1. Cor. 13.  that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be abolished, saith the Apostle. And will you adventure to abolish perfection after it is come, and to bring men back to this mortal life, that have seen God in the fullness of his glory, whom no man living can see, depriving them of that vision, perfection, and brightness, which the joys of heaven have in them? It is an enterprise meet for such an encounterer as you are. Paul living was taken up into 
y 2. Cor. 〈◊〉  the third heaven, even into Paradise, where he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which he might not utter. Was Paul then in the joys of heaven? I trow not. For he saith; Lest I should be exalted out of measure through the abundance of revelations, there was given unto me a sting in the flesh, even the messenger of Satan, to ●…uffit me. If the abundance of revelation would so exalt Paul when he was but taken up into Paradise, that he needed the messenger of Satan to humble him, how would the joys of heaven, and cleercnesse of God's face beheld in his glory, exalt men that should afterward live again in this wretched world? And therefore this is like the rest, even a bold assertion of things unknown; whereas God wanteth no means nor places extraordinary to detain the souls of such as shall in his counsel return to this life, without knowing the secrets or possessing the joys of heaven.  

z Defenc. pag. 111. li. 22.  If your Fathers prove any thing towards your meaning, it is this, because that he complained of his bodily dying. Howbeit, they say not, that he thus complained only and merely 
The Defender 〈◊〉 the Fathers prove my meaning.  for that. Neither do I think will you plainly hold this, NEITHER DO WE DENY THE OTHER.] If the Father's meaning be, which you now confess, that Christ on the cross complained because of his bodily dying, then prove they as much as I produced them sor: and your admitting this exposition of theirs showeth, that all this while you idly sought to subvert their assertion with your strong allegation (as you supposed) to no purpose, since now you deny it not. And where you pretend, they say not ONLY and merely for that, you come too late with your exception: For since Christ made no complaint on the cross but this, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me; if in that he complained because of his bodily dying, as you do not deny; then all proof for your hell pains out of those words is quite excluded, aswell by their opinion, as by your own confession. And your making Christ's complaint on the cross to be 
a Pa. 111. li. 22  improbable, yea unlawful, convinceth you by your own mouth, that within the compass of five lines you are contrary to yourself, and charge Christ with unlawful mourning, which amounteth to as much as sinful. As for mine opinion, what respects Christ might have in that complaint of his, I have before delivered, so that your so grieving and so mourning only and merely for that, is but a silly refuge, when you can not otherwise resist the truth.  

b Defenc. pag. 111. li. 32. & 28.  These Fathers had no purpose here to exclude the suffering of Christ's soul, but only to deny that his Godhead suffered. They strove here with heretics, whose controversies were far from our question.] Indeed the heretics against whom they wrote, took great hold of these places on which you build your hell pains; and because they were 
Heretics always urged the same places whi●…h the Desender doth.  somewhat dark and doubtful, they stumbled many weak Christians with them even as you do. Their purpose I know was to prove Christ no God in nature, because he feared and sorrowed in the Garden, and complained on the Cross, as if he were forsaken; which things they thought unfit for him that was God. The Fathers to repel their heresy, and to open this obscurity, insist plainly on these points, that the Mediator must be God as well as man, and that the Godhead of Christ incarnate was impassable, and could not suffer any violence or change; but his manhood might and did suffer somethings in soul, as fear and sorrow; and somethings in body, as pains and death. But generally when they speak of death, they never intent as you doc, the death of Christ's soul as well as of his body, but they mean plainly the death of the Cross described by the Evangelists, which is far from the second death or the death of the damned.  

c Defenc. pag. 111. li. 36.  The very same doth Hilary also, where he saith, that this in Christ was Corporis vox, The outcry of his body, he plainly meaneth it of his whole manhood, the opposition being between it and his Godhead, as the Scripture often doth.] If your authority be such, that you may take body for soul, and life for death, where you will, you may soon make a show, that the Fathers intent nothing against your doctrine: but if you must prove it as well as say it, then is it the most riotous and most ridiculous course that can be, to take one contrary for another: for so you may prove darkness to be light, vice to be virtue, falsehood to be truth, and infidelity to be faith. What the Fathers taught touching the death of Christ's soul, when we come to the place we shall plainly see by their own asserting, and not by your perverting; in the mean time you were best bring stronger proofs than these, that you will take the body for the soul, if you mean to conclude any thing out of the Fathers for your croslegged doctrine.  

d Trea. pag. 9  The Scripture often doth the like, you say, as you have showed in your Treatise.] There you have childishly abused a number of Scriptures, and yet no way proved, that any where the body signifieth the soul, or standeth for the soul. That the soul is a consequent to the body, and the body likewise a consequent to the soul, wheresoever 
The s●…ule is a c●…nsequent to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, but no part of it.  the Scripture speaketh of men living here on earth, is a sure and safe rule; because no man here liveth, that doth not consist of soul and body: yet that is no proof, that what is attributed to the body, must be verified of the soul, much less that the one must be taken for the other. Look but to your own examples, where body is named: 
e Rom. 6.  Let not sin reign in your mortal bodies, saith the Apostle. If here you will comprehend the soul under the name of the body, you must grant in exact words, that the soul is mortal, which is an open heresy destroying the sum and effect of the Christian faith. Again: 
f 1. Cor. 6.  Every sin that a man doth, is without the body, but the fornicato-sinneth against his own body. If in this place the body conclude the soul, than every sin (save fornication) is without soul and body, and consequently no sin; which is a doctrine a man would think meet for no Divine. The third instance which you bring, hath not so gross sequels, but as plain falsehoods: 
g Hebr. 10.  Sacrifice and burnt offerings thou wouldst not, but a body h●…st thou ordained me; whereof the sacrifices offered by the Law were 
h Ibid. vers. 1.  shadows. Now did the bodies of beasts slain, or their blood shed, prefigure the Soul of Christ, or the death of his body? These be the places, on which you build your unsound observation, that the Scripture doth often take the body for the soul, which are so sensibly false, that they need no Refuter. But we reason of death, which severeth the soul from the body, and therein to say the body must be taken for the soul, is a very sink of sottish absurdities and falsities. For what can be more repugnant to truth and sense, than to take a dead body for a living soul, and when they are so far severed by nature, to say they must agree in name, and the one be called the other?  
Peruse now the Fathers, which you would feign wrest to your purpose, and see whether they do not flatly contradict your device, that the body in their speeches must be taken for the whole man, and so the death of Christ's body for the death, as well of soul, as of the body. Epiphanius is the first, that you would frustrate with your devices, and the first that shall convince your falsehood. He saith the manhood of Christ spoke these words, Now seeing the deity together with the soul moving to forsake his sacred body. What death call you that, where the soul moveth and forsaketh the body? then in that complaint of Christ's the thing forsaken was his body alone by the judgement of Epiphanius, and the deity 
i Epiph. contra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 69.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 together with the soul did move 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to forsake that sacred body. Which way doth this prove the soul or the whole manhood of Christ to be forsaken, when Epiphanius expressly saith, the deity with the soul did move to forsake the body? Hilary is the next, whom you would infect with your fancy, but finding no words in him meet for your matter, you are forced shamefully to misconstrue the body for the soul, and the death of the one for the death of the other, which is all the hold you have in Hilary, though you lustily would bear out the rest with the copy of your countenance. Notwithstanding Hilary doth not only prevent, but also refute your mistaking. For in plain words he saith 
k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 10.  Querela derelicti morientis infirmit as est, traditio spirit us morientis excessio est, The complaint (of Christ) that he was forsaken was the infirmity of one dying, the yielding up his spirit was his departure hence, when he died. And again, Tradens spiritum mortuus est; Christ died by delivering up his spirit. Sepultus est Christus, quia & mortuus est, mortuus autem est, quia & moriturus locutus est, Deus, Deus meus, quare me dereliquisti. Christ was buried because he was dead; and ready to die, he said, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me. So that Christ's death, when he spoke those words, was not passed nor present, but then to come, as Hilary noteth by the future tense, and was the delivering up of his spirit into his father's hands. I trust you dare not defend, that Christ in or after the delivering up of his spirit, suffered the pains of hell or the second death, and yet saith Hilary those words Christ spoke of his death, that was to come.  
Tertullian is the last, whose words though you mightily mistake & mistranslate, yet make they nothing for you, but against you directly. Writing against Praxeas, that denied the Father and the Son to be two distinct persons, and taught that the Father became son to himself, 
l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. ca 2.  and was made man and crucified, after many proofs to show the person of the son to be different from the person of the father, he citeth those words of Christ on the cross, My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me; and saith, 
m Ibid. ca 30.  h●…c vox carnis & animae, idest hominis, non sermonis, nec spiritus, id est Dei propterea emissa est, ut impassibilem Deum ostenderet, qui sic filium dereliquit, dum hominem eius tr●…didit in mortem. Caeterum non reliquit Pater Filium, in cuius manibus Filius spiritum suum posuit. Denique posuit, & statim obijt. Spiritu enim manente in carne, caro omnino mori non potest. Ita relinqui a Patre fuit mori filio. This voice of the flesh and soul, that is of the man, not of the word, nor of the spirit, that is not of God, was therefore spoken to show that God is impassable, who so left his son, whiles he delivered his manhood to death. Yet the Father did not (altogether) forsake the son, into whose hands the son breathed out his spirit. For he breathed it out, and straigh●…way died. Whiles the spirit remained in the flesh, the flesh could not die at all. So that to be forsaken of the Father, was in the son to die. Here are the words of Tertullian in order as they stand. Where it is evident, that he affirmeth no death nor forsaking in Christ, but only that, when the spirit left the body. His words are plain. The Father forsocke not the son, into whose hands the son deposed his spirit. For he laid it down, and died. So to be forsaken of the Father was (this) for the son to die, by laying down his spirit or soul, as before he proveth Christ did. Then suffered Christ no death of the soul, since he died not, till he breathed out his spirit into his father's hands; and other forsaking the son felt none, than so to die by the separation of his soul from his body.  
Now touching the voice of the soul and the flesh, whereof Tertullian speaketh; 
What forsaking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of.  either he maketh three parts in man, as the Apostle doth Thess: 1: 5. verse: 23. the spirit, the soul, and the body, and then the soul noteth the operations of life and sense, which were to cease for the time by death; or else he affirmeth this voice came from both soul and body, because the soul was to be separated from her body by death, as well as the body to be left dead; both which are a kind of forsaking. Other death he nameth none here, then to die by breathing out the spirit. And so long as the spirit abideth in the flesh, the flesh he saith cannot die at all. Christ therefore endured no death whiles his spirit did abide in his body, and consequently no death of the soul; and when he breathed out his spirit he straightway died, which was the forsaking, that he complained of in those words. So that all your collections here out of Tertullian are your additions to Tertullian, and not so much as one of them to be found or fet from his text. He speaketh not a word that Christ 
n Defenc. pag.  suffered in both these parts from his father, nor that this (death or forsaking) 
o li. 15.  was meant of the flesh and of the 
1 12. li. 20.  soul, as you falsely translate him. And as for Tertullia's confirming that 
p li. 26.  heresy of Christ's being no true natural man, except Christ suffered 
q li. 23.  the stroke of God's hand in his soul, as the proper vengcance of sin, this is your blind device absurdly foisted into Tertullian, without any word or letter sounding that way.  

r Defenc. pag. 112. li. 31.  This dereliction of which he speaketh, is more 〈◊〉 the separation of the soul and body: even the separation of the deity from the whole manhood, which is the death of the soul. I speak nothing here but the Father's words, yea the Scriptures.] Your setting unto Tertullian 
Tertullian nameth no death but of Christ's body.  your own sense, is an impudent attempt, and the weakest argument that can be, when you tell us he meaneth so, though he speak not one word touching the death of the soul, but as exactly as he can or should, nameth the death of the body, by this that he saith: Denique (spiritum) posuit, & statim obijt. Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest. Christ laid down his (spirit) and straightway died. For whiles the spirit remained in the flesh, the flesh could not die at all. What was it to lay down his spirit into his father's hands, as the Scripture speaketh of Christ on the cross, but to die the death of the body? Those very words Tertullian here citeth and useth, and thereby proveth the Father had not inwardly forsaken the son, since the son by the manifest words of himself reported in the Evangelist, commended and yielded his spirit to his father's hands. So that against the death of the soul, Tertullia's words are pregnant:) for how did the soul die, that was commended into God's hands?) and other death Tertullian nameth nor meaneth none, but only this. Denique (spiritum) posuit, & statim obijt. Christ laid down (his spirit into his father's hands) and straightway died. As for your speaking nothing here but the fathers and the Scriptures words, beware you take not up the devils trade, to keep their words, and pervert their sense. It is no great mastery to abuse men's words, yea the word of God, which all Heretics have ever drawn to their own false and wicked purposes.  

s Defenc. pag. 112. li. 34.  Your own place of Epiphanius saith, that now his deity departed from his manhood. So saith your own Hilary also. Corporis vox contestata recedentis a se Dei dissidium. So saith Ambrose, clamavit homo divinitat is separatione moriturus. The man Christ did cry being about to die by the separation of his Godhead. You allege three places to this purpose, and either corrupt, or pervert all three most apparently. ●…piphanius saith, that Christ's deity TOGETHER WITH THE SOUL departed from his sacred body, which is as plain a description of bodily death, as may be uttered. You leave out the words, TOGETHER WITH THE SOUL, as crossing your course, and turn the body into the soul, meaning by this corruption to load Epiphanius with a sense clean contrary to his own. Hilaries words spoken of Christ's body, you enlarge to the whole manhood of Christ, and thence conclude directly against Hilaries meaning and words, that the deity departed from both, where as Hilary professeth of Christ; 
t Hilarius de Trinitate li. 10.  Derelinqui se ad mortem questus est, sed TUNC confessorem suum secum in Regno Paradisi recepit. Christ complained that he was (forsaken or) left unto death, but EVEN THAN he received the Thief that confessed him, into the kingdom of Paradise jointly with himself. Ambroses words are 
u Ambros in Luc. li. 10. de commendatione spiritus in 〈◊〉 Patris.  Clamavit homo divinitatis sep●…ratione moriturus. The man Christ cried (not then dead in soul, when he cried as you would have it, but) ready to die, or that after should die, when he yielded his spirit into his father's hands. The very next sentence before showeth that this departing was of the divinity from the body, to leave that unto death. 
x Ibidem.  Euidens manifestatio contestantis Dei secessionem divinitatis & corporis. A manifest speech of God witnessing the departure of his divinity from his body. So that by no means Ambrose ever imagined that Christ's soul died, but as he expresseth himself in the same Chapter; 
y Ibidem.  Caro moritur, ut resurgat, spiritus Patri commendatur, ut pax fuerit in Caelo. The flesh dieth, that it might rise again; the spirit is commended to (God) the father, that peace might be established in the heavens. Thus shortly have you taken the pains to produce three Fathers for the death of Christ's soul, and have as shamefully perverted and inverted every one of them, which is no news with you; and yet all that you can conclude out of them may amount to a pestilent heresy, if you will, that the union of Christ's person was dissolved for the time of his death, but it can never infer any thing pertinent to your purpose.  

z Defenc. pag. 113. li. 4.  Here the Fathers do s●…ew indeed that Christ died, but more than a mere bodily death; even the death of the soul also.] here the Fathers are exquisitely belied and falsified, otherwise that Christ's soul died, they offer neither word nor syllable sounding that way. And though you can not speak truth in so false a cause, yet you should learn to spe●…ke coherently. You grant they avouch here, that Christ died the death of the body, and more, even the death of the soul also; whereas it is evident by the words of the holy ghost, as also by your own positions, that Christ neither did nor could die these two deaths at one time. For by the manifest witness of the Evangelist, Christ 
a Luc. 22.  〈◊〉 his spirit into his Father's 〈◊〉, and so died. Then most certainly the soul of Christ was accepted and received into the hands of God, which I trow is life, and not death, when the body was left to death. Wherefore if their words concern his bodily death, they by no means admix the death of the soul, since they all affirm a●… the Scripture doth, that Christ committed his soul to his Father's hands, and so died; of which death they say he spoke in those words, Why hast thou left me, that is, to die, as they expound it. Now if you affix any death to the soul of Christ, I hope you will free him from it, before he commended his soul into his Father's hands. And so the one must be ended, before the other could enter; and consequently, if they spoke of the latter, their words have no intent to imply the other. But what dispute we of their meaning, when their words are so manifest, that you can not hale them to your hell-paines, but by shameful corrupting of their sentences, and wilful misconstruing the body for the soul?  

b Defenc. pag. 113. li. 6.  What is the separation of the deity from his soul else but the death of his soul?] Which of these Fathers doth avouch the separation of Christ's deity from his soul? Is it so small a mote in your eye, that Christ's deity was separated from his human soul, that you may loosely and lightly surmise it by disordering and altering other men's words? At this speech of Ambrose you could not so grossly have stumbled, had you but read the Master of the Sentences, who long since in one whole distinction of his third book examined those words, and answered as the truth is, that separation in that place was taken for want of protection, and withholding Christ's power, whiles the body died. 
c Sententiarum li. 3. dist. 21.  Separavit se 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 subtraxu protectionem. Separavit se foris, ut non esset ad defensionem, sed non 〈◊〉 defuit ad unionem. Si non ibi cohibuisset potentiam, sedexercuisset, non 〈◊〉 Christus. The deity severed itself, because it withdrew protection. It separated itself outwardly not to defend, but if failed not inwardly to continue the union. If it had not refrained, but exercised power, Christ could not have died. Theodoret calleth this dereliction, 
d In Psal. 21.  The permission of the deity, that the humanity might suffer. And Isychius saith, 
e 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉. li. 5. ca 16.  Divinit as abijsse dicitur, cohibens propriam virtutem ex humanitate, ut daret spacium Passioni. Christ's deity is said to depart by withholding his own power from his humanity, that he might give time to his Passion. Otherwise it is a certain truth which ●…ulgentius teacheth: 
f Ad 〈◊〉 lib. 3.  Licet in Christi morte carnem morie●…tem fuisset anima desertura, divinit as tamen Christi nec ab anima, nec à carne posset separari suscepta. Though in Christ's death the soul were to forsake the body dying, yet the deity of Christ could not be severed from the soul, nor from the body once assumed.  

g Defenc. pag. 113. li. 7.  Howbeit note, I pray, that neither the Fathers nor I do mean any separating of the union of both natures in Christ, nor the separating of any holiness or habitual grace of God from his soul, nor the separating of God's love from him, but the separation of all comfortable feeling and assistance of the Godhead. This separation is meant and may be called the death of the soul.] If you separate none of these, what then is it that you separate from the soul of Christ to prove it dead? [All comfortable feeling and assistance of the Godhead.] He knew himself to be personally God and man, he saw his soul full of all truth and grace, he was assured, the love of God towards him could neither fail nor change; he knew that his obedience and sacrifice were acceptable to his Father, and should be the redemption of the world, and he was most certain, that the third day he should rise again into immortal and celestial glory, having men, devils and angels, even all things in heaven and earth subject to his manhood. Were all these no comforts? or was there no assistance of the Godhead in these? Nay take but your own words a little before, that Christ on the cross, even when he complained of his forsaking, was in 
h Pag. 110. li. 28.  exceeding general and constant joy, and had as David foreprophesied of him, 
i 34.  constant and continual joy in God; was there no feeling of all this triumph and joy so exceeding, constant, and continual? May a man be so frantic, as to confess that Christ felt all this, and yet to say he had no comfortable feeling? [This may be called the death of the soul.] To him that calleth light darkness, good evil, faith fear, joy discomfort, this may seem death; which by all the rules of the sacred Scriptures is called the life of the soul here on earth; but by no man that understandeth or careth what he saith, can this be called or defended to be the death of the soul.  

k Defenc. pag. 113. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  As it is life to the soul to feel and to enjoy the glory of God, Psal: 16. 21. so it is death to feel the want and absence thereof utterly.] Having abused the Fathers at your pleasure you offer now the like, if not worse, to the Scriptures. The sixteenth Psalm vers: 11 not 21 as you quote it, showeth us, that there is a way to life revealed here on earth, but the fullness of joy is in God's presence, when we shall behold his face, as the Angels do in heaven. The way to life is grace, wherewith Christ was replenished from his mother's womb, and in greater measure than all his members. For he had the fullness thereof in this life, where the perfectest men have but a measure thereof, and we 
l john 1.  all have received of his fullness. The plenty of pleasure, which is at God's right hand, is everlasting glory both of soul and body, into which Christ entered after his Resurrection. How doth this prove, that Christ's soul was dead during the time of his Pa●…sion? if a man would seek out a place to confirm the contrary, he cannot light on a better. For these words pertaining directly to Christ on the cross conclude, that even in the midst of his sufferings 
m Psal 16. v. 11  the ways of life were made known to him by God, and that after his rising again, God would Replenish him with the joy of his countenance, which was everlasting glory in the heavens. The one he possessed, the other was promised, more than which the soul of man cannot enjoy in this life. Now except this be your rage rather than your reason, that all men's souls are dead, till they come to behold God face to face in the heavens; I see not what you can hence collect touching the death of Christ's soul. The contrary may be sound concluded out of this place. For the ways of life were made known to him here on earth, and by him to all men living, since he processed himself to be the 
n john 14.  Way, and the Truth, and the Life; and the promises of God to him as far exceeded all honour and glory reserved for men, as it was possible for the head to excel his members.  

o Defence pag. 113 li. 1●….  This heavenly life Christ tasted a while in his transsiguration, this death he felt besides his bodily death on the Crosse. If Christ never tasted an heavenly life but in his transfiguration, than all the time of his conversing here on earth he felt your hellish death, and not in his passion only: but what madness is this to affirm either of Christ, or of his members, that their souls are dead, till they come to behold God's face in the glory of his Kingdom? If these be your best proofs for the death of Christ's soul, 〈◊〉 heed you be not estr●…nged from the life of God through the ignorant wilfulness or your heart, that thus confound heaven and earth, life and death, to maintain your fancies against both Fathers and Scriptures. But of the death of Christ's soul we shall have better occasion afterward to speak, when we come to handle it at large, where I will by God's grace let the Reader see, how resolutely and absolutely the Father's joining with the Scriptures repel the death of Christ's soul as a pestilent point of false doctrine; unless we take it as a figurative kind of speech, which is nothing to the principles of our faith, nor to the true price of our Redemption, since we must not convert the truth of Christ to figures and phrases.  

p Defence pag. 11. li 〈◊〉.  Your fourth exposition for any thing I see may be granted, for it seemeth to be the same in effect that we hold.] If the fourth exposition be granted, than two of your chief 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on the 〈◊〉.  grounds, on which you raise your hell pains suffered in the soul of Christ, utterly sink. For then Christ spoke these words of his members, not of his own person, and it was no such doleful and uncomfortable mourning and 〈◊〉 his own soul as you suppose, but a prayer full of power, favour, and grace; whereby the son of God averted from us the separation, that was betwixt God & us, and made peace in heaven and earth, reconciling man to God, that before was forsaken of him. [
q Pag. 113 li. 2●….  Was it removed from us? then surely it was laid on some body else. Now that must needs be upon himself.] You fall to roving in steed of reasoning. Everlasting death and hell fire itself were removed from us. On whom then were they laid? Desperation, confusion, rejection were likewise removed from us. Were they therefore laid on Christ? 〈◊〉 of sin, and corruption in the grave shallbe likewise removed from us. Were these also laid on Christ's person, or did he suffer the very same, that we should? keep such reasons for your hellish mysteries, they have no force in true religion, nor I think with any sober or well advised reasoner. The punishments of this life imposed on all mankind Christ suffered for us, and by them freed us from everlasting damnation and destruction, which were the due wages of our sins. He therefore paid a price for us, which was the shedding of his blood unto death on the Cross, and by that ransomed us from the captivity and misery, that otherwise were appointed for sin.  

r Defenc. pag. 113. li. 30.  Where you object Athanasius, that he could not be forsaken of his Father, who was always in his Father, it is merely wrested. Athanasius speaketh against Arius also, that Christ's deity could not be forsaken of his Father, and so was not inferior to his Father.] What talk you of wresting, that never yet conceived any Father's words rightly, no more than you do that of Athanasius, which I brought? You catch at a piece, and run your way, as though you were clearly acquitted; but return to the text, and look on the rest with shame enough. Who was he, that spoke those words, Why hast thou forsaken me? I trust he was the son of God, though now incarnate, who before his incarnation was equal with his father in the form of God. Else Peter was much deceived, when he said unto him, that stood there in presence, Thou art the son of the living God; and Christ himself was more then deceived, when he answered, 
s Matth 16.  Blessed art thou, for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee; but my Father which is in heaven. Then speaketh not Athanasius of Christ's divine nature, but of his person, which was 
t Athanasius contra 〈◊〉 serm. 4.  ALWAYS in his father, that is before he spoke those words and after. And even when he spoke those words, the father declared, saith Athanasius, by the miracles presently following, that he was THAN ALSO in his son (incarnate,) as ever before. Doth not this directly conclude, that Athanasius intended God was in the speaker of those words, even when he spoke them, and that at no time the father forsook the person incarnate, no not when he spoke those words, since God to show that he had not forsaken him, who then spoke unto him, made heaven and earth to witness, how much he esteemed the person, that so complained?  

u Defence pag. 113. li. 35.  Touching Christ's humanity Athanasius denieth not, but God might for sake it: for so the Scripture saith.] The question is not for the word, but for the sense. You finding the word of forsaking to be used in the Scripture, put what sense you list to it, and thence would prove the death of Christ's soul with as strange positions, as the main error itself. For you grant Christ's manhood was not forsaken neither of God's FA●…OVR, nor GRACE, nor of continual and constant joy in God, much less of 
What contrarieties the Defender is driven to.  the fullness of God's spirit, which rested on him; and yet you say, he died the death of the soul for want of comfort. As if there were no comfort neither in the grace, nor in the favour of God, nor in the joys of his spirit, nor in the hope of his promises, all which were most assured to him to the highest degree, that any creature was capable of. Did you mean, that he had no ease of his pains, nor end of reproaches, whiles he lived, as also no deliverance from the hands of his persecutors, nor protection from death, all these might be borne with, since the Scriptures give manifest testimony, that these things he suffered till he died; but these things, that are true, will not serve your turn, you urge his soul died: because he had no heavenly life, such as he tasted in his transfiguration, where 
x Matth. 17.  his face did shine as the 〈◊〉, and the clothes were as white as the light, which proveth his soul to be no more dead in his passion, than it was all his life long besides, and that will no man in his right wits avouch of Christ, or of his Saints here in earth.  

y Defence pag. 114. li. 1. & 4.  Your fifth exposition is Leos conceit, without warrant, far fetched, hardly applied. Origen is also here as weak.] Prick on in your pride, despising all the world besides yourself, and scorning every man's opinion, that hitteth not right with your fancy; though 
The fifth sense of Christ's complaint on the cross.  few men speak or write so absurdly, and falsely as you do. Leos exposition utterly subverteth your hellish assertion, and that maketh you fling it away with such disdain as you do. Otherwise it hath more vicinity with the circumstances of the text, then yours by many degrees. For there is nothing in Leos interpretation, which acordeth not with the Christian faith, and hath his foundation in the very words of the sacred Scriptures; in both which your hellish and harrish application faileth. He saith; 
z Leo de Pass. Dom. serm. 16.  Vox ista doctrina est, non querela; those words were an instruction, not a lamentation. And his reason is passed your refuting. Cum in Christo Dei & hominis una sit persona, nec potuerit ab eo relinqui, à quo non poterat separari, pro nobis trepidis & infirmis interrogat, cur caro pati metuens ex audita non fuerit. Since in Christ there was but one person of God and man, & he could not be forsaken of him, from whom he could not be severed, he ASKETH for our sakes, that are fearful and weak, why flesh fearing to suffer was not heard. Which of these things can you refel with all the wit in your head? the conjunction and communion of both natures in one person of Christ you were not best meddle with, lest you sow damnable heresies as thick, as you have done notable absurdities. He saith further, Cur for quare, and non exandities for relictus. Ask the Boys in Paul's school, what difference betwixt cur and quare, both signifying WHY, and being both interrogatives, as Leo rightly observeth, concurring with that of Saint Austen, who said, as we have heard before, 
a August. epist. 120.  Causam commonuit requirendam, cum addidit, ut quid dereliquistime. Christ warned (them) to search for the cause, when he added, WHY HAST thou FORSAKEN ME? His exposition of the word forsaking, he taketh out of the very Psalm, whence Christ cited the rest. For so David joined them together. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? and art so farrc from saui●…g (or delivering) me. I cry by day, and thou hearest not. So that not to hear, and not to deliver, is the for●…aking which David meant in that place, and which in all likelihood our Saviour intended, (as Saint Austen thinketh) if he spoke of his own person. 
b August. Ibid.  Quare me dereliquisti, tanquam diceret, relinquendo me, hoc est, non me exaudiendo, longè factus es à salute mea, praesenti scilicet salute huius vitae. Why hast thou forsaken me, as if he should have said, leaving me, that is, not hearing me, thou art far from saving me, to wit from the present safety of this life. So saith Leo. 
c De Passione serm. 16.  In ipso tantae victoriae exaltatus triumpho, causam & rationem, qua sit relictus, id est, non exauditus, inquirit. Christ exalted in the triumph of so great a victory, inquireth the cause & reason why he is forsaken, that is, not heard. The reason thereof he giveth soberly, learnedly, and truly, howsoever your humour like it not. 
d Idem de Pass. Dom. serm. 17.  That the Lord should be delivered to his passion, it was as well his Father's will, as ●…is own; ut 〈◊〉 non solum Pater relinqueret, sed etiam ipse se quadam ratione desereret; That not only the father might leave him, but that after a sort he should forsake himself, not by any fearful shrincking, but by a voluntary session. For the power of Christ crucified contained itself from those wicked ones, and to perform his secret disposition, he would not use any manifest power. He that came by his passion to destroy death, and the author of death, how should he save sinners if he would have resisted his pursuers? And touching that kind of forsaking, which you dream of, he saith; 
e Ibidem.  Iud●…orum hoc fuerit, ut jesum crederent a Deo relictum, in quem tanto scelere saevire potuissent, qui sacrilega illusione dicebant, alios saluos fecit, seipsum non potest saluum facere. Let us leave this to the jews, to think Christ forsaken of God, on whom they could execute their rage with such wickedness; who sacriligeously deriding him said, he saved others, he cannot save himself. He was then forsaken of his father, when he was delivered into the hands of the wicked, that is, he was not defended from them; yea he would forsake himself, that is, he would use no manifest power against them, but willingly yielded himself into their hands to suffer what they would. This is the forsaking, saith Leo, which the Scripture alloweth. That other sort of forsaking, that God indeed had left him & would not help him in his good time, that is rather the perfidiousness of the jews, which objected so much unto him, than the faith of Christians.  
Origen, you say, is here as weak;] and why? because you say the word? you take upon you like a judge to set down your unwise censure on every man's words, you take not the pains to refute them by any colour or show of reason. Origen saith, that 
f Orig●…n 〈◊〉 Matth. 〈◊〉. 35.  Christ was forsaken of his Father, when he took unto him the form of a servant, and came to the death of the cross, which amongst men seemed most shameful. Then mayest thou plainly understand, what he meant, when he said, why hast thou forsaken me; comparing that glory, which he had with his Father, to this shame, which he despised enduring the Crosse. Tell us not what you will mislike, but what you can refute in this saying. And since you require the reasons of all other men's speeches, and think yourself privileged to speak without all reason, what say you, which was the greater abasing or forsaking, for God to lay aside the power and glory of his majesty and to take unto him the shape of a servant, and therein to die the shameful death of the cross; or for man to want comfort in his affliction? which was the greater emptying, or humbling himself in Christ? If Origen in this point be weak, the Apostle is as weak, who nameth this as the greatest 
g Phil. 2.  EXINANITION, that Christ endured; saying, he being in the form of God (that is equal with God) emptied himself, and took on him the form of a servant, and humbled himself, and became obedient to the death, even the death of the Crosse. Origen goeth right with the Apostles words, and saith this was the greatest dereliction, or humiliation that Christ suffered; and before you can with any reason control this speech you must correct the Apostles text, and in steed of the death of the Cross, put in the death of the damned, which is a mystery the apostle never heard, nor spoke of. Origen therefore concludeth. 
h Origen. v●… supra.  unde non estimes more humano salvatorem ista 〈◊〉 propter 〈◊〉, quae comprehenderat eum in cruse. Wherefore think not our Saviour spoke this after the m●…ner of men for the calamity, which apprehended him on the cross. For so if 〈◊〉 take it, thou shalt not seek for things worthy his divine voice.  

i Defenc. pag. 114. li. 6.  Also these senses be contrary to all the rest here observed.] If they were, what is that to the goodness of your cause? Is it such news, that divers men should make 〈◊〉 senses of some places in holy Scriptures? If there be so abundant and different meanings of these words, than your conclusion of hell-paines out of that complaint is more than cracked. What warrant have you, but your own will, to make any such construction of Christ's words? And the word forsaking having so many degrees, respects, and diversities, as we see by these learned Fathers, you must proclaim yourself more than a Patriarch, even a Pope, that must have, and will have the sense of holy Scripture shut up in the closet of your own breast, before your inference of hell-paines suffered in the soul of Christ will be consequent to these words.  

k Defence pag. 114. li. 7.  Your sixth and last sense is likewise contrary to the rest, and as improbable in itself (or more) than the former: That Christ should here cite the beginning of that Psalm, only to show the jews, that their wrongs towards him were prophesied of before. This already I 
The sixth sense of Christ's complaint on the cross.  fully answered, which you refute not.] What should I refute a brainsick Presumer of his own ignorant conceit, and a proud despiser of all other men's words and reasons? This, you say, you have already fully answered in your Treatise.] If you had said foolely, I might the sooner have believed you: for what is there in that answer, but extreme pride and folly? All your answer is, 
l Trea. pa. 66. li 31.  Which sense is most absurd. What patch can not presently give this answer to any thing? But more fully, you say, 
m Ibid pag. 67. li. 7.  This is too fond to be spoken. Such liquor doth relish well your lips. All men's sayings are fond to a fool, save his own, which are most foolish of all. I brought you the judgements of jerom and Chrysostom, and all the answer you vouchsafed unto them, is that which I now repeat; which whether it savour of any sobriety, I relinquish to the Reader. [But you add a reason thereof in your Treatise.] Such as would make a man sick to hear an idle companion prate so boldly and loosely. Your reason forsooth is, for so you will have it called; [
n Ibid. pag. 66. li. 32.  As if when they had mocked and reviled him at noon or before, he would then three whole hours after tell them of such an answer in the Prophet.] As if you stood by and kept the Register, when they left mocking and deriding Christ on the cross. That he was crucified about mid-noon, and spoke these words about the ninth hour, which was three of the clock after noon, the Scripture doth witness, but how long they continued their scorning and scoffing at him, no Scripture doth limit. Saint Matthew nameth the high 
o Matth. 27. verse 41.  Priests with the Scribes, Elders and pharisees, the 
p 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 that were crucified with him, and such as 
q 〈◊〉.  passed by reviled him, wagging their ●…eads, and 
r 〈◊〉.  saying, Thou that destroyest the Temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. S. Luke addeth, That 
s Luc. 22. v. 35.  the people which stood and beheld, mocked him, as well as the Rulers, and the soldiers also mocked him, and came and offered him vinegar. How long this continued from all sorts standing and passing by, if you take upon you to tell, you must consult with balaam's beast; for no man can tell you, unless you find by the stars how long that stir dured. For my part I think, as they were never satisfied with his torments, so never left they taking all occasions to deride him, as we may perceive by the very speaking of these words; upon which some said, Let be, Let us see if Elias will come and save him. Now if the very passengers did not refrain their tongues from 〈◊〉 on him, shall we think the standers by did so quickly leave with mouth to 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 heart to disdain him, and condemn him as forsaken of God, in the midst of so many shames and miseries? And the poison of their hearts accounting him to be wicked and rejected of God, was the thing which Christ respected, as well as the 〈◊〉 of their tongues. But what if their mocks did cease at twelve of the clock, as you 〈◊〉 presume with out all good ground, might not Christ therefore in this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 words and hateful thoughts three hours after, when now he was 〈◊〉 to give up the ghost, though whiles life did last, he was content with all quietness and silence to endure them? Was it so fond and absurd as you talk of, to 〈◊〉 them with the beginning of that Psalm, that all these things which he had suffered, and they had used towards him, were foreprophesied of the Messias and Saviour of the world? Who but a man destitute of wit or sense would give such entertainment to two so learned and ancient Fathers for so saying?  

t Defenc. pag. 114. li. 16.  Your authorities are bare arguments. jerom bringeth no reason, but his own word. 〈◊〉 I see not what he saith to your purpose at all.] Your absurdities and contrarieties hatched out of your own head are far worse arguments. jeroms bare word is as good as your bare will, or bold face, in any place in Christendom. Howbeit, jerom is not alone in this mind: S. Austen saith, 
u August. epist. 120.  Psalmum, cuius prophetiam 〈◊〉 ad se 〈◊〉 demonstrans, cius primum versum exclamavit, cum pend●…ret in ligno. To show the prophesy of that Psalm to pertain to him, the Lord repeated the first verse thereof with a loud voice as he hung on the cross. [You see not how chrysostom maketh to this purpose. Christ spoke these words, saith chrysostom, that thereby the jews might learn he honoured his Father to the last breath, and that (his Father) was no 〈◊〉 
x 〈◊〉. in Matth. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉.  to him. Therefore he spoke the Prophet's words, confirming the ancient Scripture, that they might perceive him to be of the same will with his Father. Had he been forsaken 〈◊〉 his Father, and convicted thereof by his own confession, as you interpret Christ's words, he had declared by his speech, his Father to be an adversary to him, since to 〈◊〉 is no sign of love, but of dislike. But he spoke these words of the Prophet, to prove that his Father was not opposite to him, but of the same will with him. What else can chrysostom mean by this, but that the Prophet by this Psalm foreshowed the Son of God and Saviour of the world should speak these words on the cross, and thereby not only affirm, that God was his God, and not his adversary, but ratify the ancient Scripture, even that whole Psalm, as forespoken of him; whereby the jews might plainly learn, that nothing befell him, which the Prophet in that Psalm did not before declare should befall the true Messias and Saviour of the world.  

y Defenc. pag. 114. li. 〈◊〉.  Finally, these kinds of dereliction which you mention besides, pag. 32, 33, 38, etc. are nothing sitter than the former.] You sit like a supreme judge over Fathers and Scriptures, and cassiere all besides your own conceits, upon the warrant of your own will, without any farther trouble or proof. It is urged in those pages which you pass over, that forsaking throughout the Scriptures never signifieth the state or pains of the damned. You care not for that, your will must have way, and your word must stand. It is there also avouched, that whensoever the godly complain in the Scriptures, as they often do, that they are forsaken; they mean of help in time of need, and of deliverance in the day of trouble. Nor Scriptures nor Fathers have any power to prevail against your pleasure, you will have forsaking in Christ's words to note the pains of the damned, though there be no example thereof in any divine or human writings. You are belike some Praetor or some Pilate, that what you have written, you have written, and other reason you will yield none.  

z Defence pag. 114. li. 22.  Six or seven divers yea contrary senses you have brought of a few words, and of them all you say, they are all godly expositions, and all these interpretations are sound, and stand well with the rules of Christian piety. How sound and fit they are, it hath been scene.] And what have you found in any of them dissonant from the rules of Christian piety, for which I commended them? They fit not your fancy, I know it well; but they serve neither from the faith of Christ, nor from the word of God. For where all good Expositions 
The true rules how to expound the Scriptures.  should have these four conditions; the right use of the words, the circumstances of the place, the coherence with other Scriptures, and concordance with the main grounds of piety and charity, which by no pretence of any speech in Scripture may be impugned; these expositions of the ancient Fathers transgress in none of them. And where the jews falsely, wickedly, and blasphemously objected to Christ, that he was forsaken of God, you out of the abundance of your wit and faith, will have Christ on the cross publicly and plainly to confess and confirm their sacrilegious objections, and to justify their impiety for truth, by acknowledging with a loud voice, that he was forsaken of God. A worse exposition than which, the devil himself could not devise. For whatsoever was inwardly between him and his Father, he would never so openly ratify their impious and slanderous cogitations and imputations with his own mouth, nor leave such a confession presently before his death in the ears and hearts of all his enemies, as that he found himself to be truly and inwardly forsaken of God; but rather calling that a forsaking, which they misconstrued to be so, he complained that God had so long with such patience left him in their hands without any show as yet of love and favour towards him, which made his enemies think God had indeed forsaken him.  

z Defence pag. 114. li. 26.  Verily you have a good head, if you can reconcile all these, and make them stand together.] Doth any man, that hath so much as a head, require to have all expositions reconciled, before they may be tolerated? When they are divers, the Reader may make his choice what he best liketh; but there is no cause nor reason to reject all that can not be reconciled. Neither did I tell you, they might all stand together; but I said they stood well with the rules of Christian piety. And since they had in them no contradiction to the text, nor to the faith, I saw no ground to deprive the Reader of them, much less to reject or disdain the authors of them, as you do. And yet truly it were no such hard matter, as you imagine, to make the substance of them stand together. For why might not Christ on the cross, as the head and Saviour of his body, in his own name make his complaint, or inquire the cause why both he and his were so long and in this wise forsaken; as namely, the head to be left to the pain, shame and death of the cross, and his members to the poison of sin, and rage of Satan: and therefore pray that his members might be freed and restored to God's favour, and himself be eased of his anguish with deposing his spirit into his Father's hands, and honoured with the signs of his Father's love and liking towards him, when he should depart this life, that all his enemies might know there was a great and good cause, even the glory of God and man's salvation, why he was thus martyred and mocked on the cross? Here are the effects of those six or seven causes laid together; what so great repugnancy find you betwixtthem, that because they are many, therefore your hell-paines should be the likelier to be the true meaning of these words?  

a Defenc. pag. 114. li. 27.  A very bad opinion of the holy Scriptures you seem to have, if you think they may be handled by Interpretations and Expositions thus, that a man may take them in six or seven divers senses, and all sustisiable.] I honour them more in not rejecting the manifold expositions of considerate and godly Interpreters, than you do in fastening them to the leaven of your sour humour, and affixing such senses to them, as shall contradict the main grounds of faith and religion delivered in them. And who but you, did ever hinder Expositors old or new, to labour in them, and scant to reach to the depth of them; since, as you seem to be affected, no man may offer diversly to interpret them for fear of having a bad opinion of them? But such is your stiff and proud presumption, all things that like not you, are vain and frivolous; and your fancies, be they never so unreasonable or irreligious, must be weighty and holy.  

b Defenc. pag. 114. li. 34.  Now it resteth, that I gather some reasons from the express Scripture, to show you that indeed very pains, and the vehemencte of sorrows, namely, which he now sustained by way of yielding satisfaction and sacrifice for sin, were the principal and only proper cause of his most dreadful agonies and complaint. Which trucly though it need no reason for proof of it (the matter being so clear in itself) yet your unreasonableness is such, that it draweth somewhat from me about it. Your Art of carping hath said but ill-favouredly with you; you will now proceed to your trade of proving, and that by express Scripture: wherein you show yourself to be right yourself, that is, take all your own fancies for express Scripture, and though your conceits be such, that are more worthy to be derided than answered; yet the matter, you say, is so clear in itself, that it needeth no reason for proof of it. The express Scriptures on which you so much stand, are the name of the Agony, the Hour, and the Cup, with this one sentence, My soul is on every side heavy unto death. About these you brabble, going neither backward nor forward, but heaping up a few general phrases of mighty sorrows and excessive pains, you iterate the very same that you often said before, and add not so much as a piece of a reason, that should stumble a man of any understanding. And touching your hell pains, or the second death, you lay that on soaking till your proving be overpast, and then we shall hear of it at Lands end, when you are lightened of your burden.  

c Defenc. pag. 115. li 3.  First no Christian doubteth (I suppose) much less denieth that Christ's most woeful agonies and complaining, belonged properly and directly to his Passion and sacrifice: and that they expressed a part thereof, yea as I think not the least part, but his whole sacrifice consisted in afflictions. The prince of our salvation was consecrated through afflictions. Therefore, afflictions, sorrows and pains were the cause of his agonies and complaint: not his religious 
The Defenders manner of reasoning is as illogical as his matter is false.  fear, not his piette or pity.] Somewhat it was, this gecre was Drawn from you; it cometh not so unwillingly, but it cometh as untowardly from you. First to the form, and then to the matter of your argument. Your conclusion is a strange kind of creature, it hath to much, and yet it hath too little. For before you can exclude religious fear, pity and piety from the cause of Christ's agony or complaint, you must add (only) to your inference, and say, Afflictions, sorrows, and pains, were the only cause of Christ's agonies and complaint. Otherwise with one part you exclude another, as if a man would say, that your head is not part of your body, because your heel is; which would put all your reasons in danger to be drawn out of your heel, and not out of your head. And yet as defective as your conclusion is one way, it is as excessive another way. For these words (were the cause) are stolen into this conclusion, of which there was no mention in your premises; and so your precedent propositions are of one country, and your conclusion of another, they have not so much as intercourse each with other; where by the rules of reason and Art, there should be nothing in your conclusion, which is not exactly specified in your premises. Your mayor beginneth with (belonged to) your minor proceedeth to (consisted in) and your conclusion huddleth (was the cause of) which are rather like forks to skatrer, than rakes to gather the parts of your syllogism together. If to hale in your conclusion, you will amend your assumption, as you must; and say, that afflictions were the only cause of Christ's sacrifice, we shall more wonder at this monster, then at the former. For besides the falseness of it, in that it is utterly repugnant to all truth, since the causes of Christ's sacrifice, were sin in us, needing it, Love in Christ proferring it, and justice in God requiring it; how come the parts of any thing to be the causes thereof? Afflictions suffered were parts of Christ's sacrifice, and not the causes. And therefore you must pray the Printer to stamp you a new conclusion before any part of this argument will have passage.  
The premises be as good, as the conclusion. For they have neither any certainty nor verity in them. [Christ's agonies and complaint belonged directly, you say, to his Passion and Sacrifice.] Belonged, what is that? as an Antecedent, Adjunct, or Consequent? as a necessary, or a voluntary pertinent? It will be long before you draw any good conclusion from this belonging. Again, Christ's agony, if you take it for all that Christ did or suffered in the Garden, how divers and how different parts had it, as inward affections of fear and sorrow, desire, and zeal; humble, often, and intentive prayer, besides the comfort of an Angel, and sweat like blood, and sundry other things which I have mentioned before? all these belonged directly to Christ's action in the Garden. Wherefore hereafter, afore you profess such clearness in your reasons, either usesuch words as the Scripture doth, or foretell us how far you extend, and what you intent by the words which you bring. Your minor is worse where you say [but Christ's whole Sacrifice consisted in afflictions.] For where is the purity of the Sacrifice, which must be unspotted; the dignity, which must countervail the offence; the voluntary presenting thereof to God, that it might be accepted as meritorious, and not inflicted as ignominious? yea, where is the Sanctification of this Sacrifice, which required not only prayer, but piety and charity, as also humility to commend it to God? All these things were in Christ's Sacrifice, as chief and main respects; which you have blotted out with expressly falsifying the Scriptures, to make room only for hell pains. For though we have no doubt, but God in his secret wisdom and justice did 
d Hebr. 2.  consecrate the prince of our salvation through afflictions, yet the Scripture saith not wholly, or only through afflictions, as if neither sanctity, nor submission, nor piety, nor pity, nor obedience, nor willingness, nor any thing else were requisite, but only to suffer affliction. The Scripture fairly intendeth, that God, who had tried the obedience of his Son in all kind of holiness and righteousness, would now try him by affliction, that the perfection of his graces and gifts might be sacred, and showed to the uttermost in these things, wherein it is hardest for the nature of man quietly and willingly to endure the hand of God. Therefore God would also consecrate the prince of our salvation by affliction, but not only by that, as if nothing else were needful in the author of our salvation, but only affliction; which assertion hath in it an heap of huge absurdities and impieties. This is your drawing of express Scriptures to serve your unlearned and unsettled fancies, that where you would profess to be strongest, there every child may perceive you to be weakest.  

e Defenc. pag. 115. li. 11.  If you say these were afflictions in him, I answer, they properly belonged to his holiness as parts thereof, and were not immediately, directly, nor properly in him as the wages and price of sin.] You be soon weary of your proofs, that you since come to your answers, and there in steed of truth you run for refuge to your wont terms, of immediately, directly and properly, as the wages and price of sin. But leave your terms for another time, and show us some proof besides your own preface, that either the sacrifice for sin might have nothing in it but only afflictions, or that the religious fear of God's power and wrath against sin, and hearty sorrow for displeasing God with our sins, are no afflictions, or no necessary parts of Christ's sacrifice for sin. For if you fail in those, your great promises of clear cases & express Scriptures, are idle and empty flourishes. Your replying, that these properly belonged to his holiness, as parts thereof, is mere trifling. For Christ's affections and submission in all his sufferings, were parts of his holiness, neither could any pains make any impressions on his soul, were they never so grievous, which were not also religious. And so much the very words, which you bring in favour of your cause, confirm. For God did consecrate him through afflictions to be the prince of our salvation. What is consecration by God, but holiness derived from God, and accepted of God? if than Christ were consecrated by his afflictions, they wrought no impressions, nor af●…ections in his soul, but such as were SACRED and religious.  
If you doubt, whether the parts of holiness may be painful and grievous unto the soul of man, look either on repentance, compassion, zeal or charity in us, and see whether as well in our own causes as in other men's, they may not be painful and grievous to the mind, even when they be also faithful & religious. Repentance doth or should work in us an inward, earnest, and hearty sorrow, that we have displeased and provoked God with our sins. I ask whether penitent sorrow be not painful, because it is religious and faithful? Were it not painful, it were no sorrow, much less repentance, or an acceptable sacrifice to God. 
f Psal. 51.  A troubled spirit is a sacrifice to God, a broken hart thou (God) will't not despise. When we do voluntarily afflict our own souls, because we have displeased him, he is pleased in mercy 
g 1. Corin. 11. vers. 31.  not to judge us, since we judge ourselves. Saint james saith, 
h jam. 4. v. 9  Cleanse your hands ye sinners, and purge your hearts ye wavering minds; be afflicted (inwardly in soul) and sorrow and weep; he meaneth in respect of their continual and manifold sins. Is this asfliction and sorrow not grievous to men, because it is religious? [It is no punishment of sin, you will say. Saint Austen saith it is, whose judgement I far prefer before yours. 
k Psal. 90.  Iniquitas 
i August. in Psalm. 58.  omnis 〈◊〉 magnave sit, puniatur necesse est; aut ab ipso homine poenitente, aut a Deo ●…indicante. Name & quem poenitet panit seipsum. Prorsus aut 〈◊〉, aut 〈◊〉. Vis non puniat, puni tu. All iniquity, be it little or great, of necessity must be punished, either by man repenting, or by God revenging. For he that repenteth, punisheth himself. Certainly then either thou must punish it, or God will punish it. Wilt thou not have him to punish? punish it thyself. Then in us sorrow for sin is a voluntary, but a holy punishment of sin, and is in all the godly both grievous and religious, and the more grievous the more religious. Since than voluntary sorrow for sin committed, which is repentance, is an higher and acceptabler sacrifice to God then vengeance, shall we think, that our Saviour, who was to yield God his due for us in all things agreeable to his person, 
Inward and voluntary sorrow of the soul is a sacrifice to God.  did omit this excellent sacrifice of inward and infinite sorrow, for that our sins so much displeaseth the holin●…sse of God, and that it was not grievous to him, because it was religious in him? It work●…th both in us; and why should either want in him, who was far better able to p●…rforme both, than we are? the like I say of the fear of God's wrath when we have provoked it. We ought not only to reverence that most excellent majesty, but when we have sinned, to fear and tremble before that power, which can do with us what he will. And though we hope in his mercy, yet that doth not breed any neglect of his power, which if we do not fear, when we have provoked, we do despice. And therefore Moses giveth this for a rule of true devotion and submission under the mighty hand of God; Who knoweth the power of thy wrath? for according to thy fear, (that is as thou art feared) so is thine anger. The lighter account we make of his anger, the heavier shall his hand be to us. The more we fear it without distrust, the less we shall feel it. For submission and sorrow do mitigate the wrath of God, which carelessness and contempt do aggravate. Since than no man knew the power of God's wrath against sin so perfectly, as Christ did; and yet the infiniteness of God's power did pass the reach of Christ's human soul to comprehend, why might not the manhood of Christ yield greater fear and trembling to the power of God's wrath against our sin, for which he was to satisfy, than all men living were able to do, and yet together with the fearful impression thereof retain a religious submission thereto?  
In compassion, when we fear for other men's dangers, or grieve for other men's harms, is not this affection painful to us, because it proceedeth from mercy, and 
〈◊〉 is aff●…iction, though it be a vert●…e.  pity in us? are you so hard hearted, as well as high minded, sir defender, that you were never touched nor troubled with the sense of other men's miseries? 
l job. 30.  Did I not weep saith job, with him that was in trouble? Was not my soul in heaviness for the poor? When the Apostle willeth us to 
m Rom. 12.  mourn with them, that mourn; Doth he mean we should make a pastime of it, because it is an affection of mercy and charity? Doth not daily experience teach us, how much the miseries of those, whom we dearly love do bite & pinch us? Can we forget David's 
n 2. Sam. 19 ver. 1. & 4.  affection and affliction for Absalon? Doth not the Scripture describe all natural mothers in those words.? 
o Matt. 2. v. 18.  In Rama was a voice heard; mourning and weeping, and great Lamentation: Rachel weeping for her children, & would not be comforted, because they were not. In godly zeal and care we shall find the like. 
p 2. Cor. 11.  Who is weak, saith the Apostle, and I am not (as) weak? who is offended, and I burn not? yea the 
q Psal. 69.  zeal of thine house hath consumed me, saith David. Then are fear and sorrow proceeding either from piety or charity no whit the less grievous, because 
The highest degrees of religious fear and sorrow were in Christ.  they are religious, but rather the more inwardly we are touched with either, the more acceptable is that affection to God, specially when it concerneth his own power or honour. And consequently as the highest degrees of religious fear and sorrow were in Christ at the time of his propitiating the holiness and justice of God for our sins, so were they in him as sharp and painful, as any his afflictions, which otherwise he felt in his body.  

r Defenc. pag. 115. li. 15.  That these should or could afflict Christ so much above his strength and patience, is more than strange. Easily they might above his strength, since he would use no strength, but weakened himself of purpose to feel the smart and burden of our sins; but not above his patience, since he did not repine at any of these, but requested by prayer to have the punishment of our sin proportioned to the weakness of his human flesh, considering the infinite power of God's wrath most justly provoked by our sins.  

s Defenc. pag. 115. li. 17.  It were no virtue but sin in any, to give way to our affections (though about good things) immoderately beyond our patience and strength of nature.] It is no sin, but virtue, to press both our strength and patience to the uttermost for God's glory in things commanded by him. As in loving God, 
t Bernardus de diligendo Deo.  modus est sine modo diligere, the measure is to love him without measure; so in all the duties which God requireth, the most that we can do is not too much. Fear and sorrow then, which are, as the Apostle speaketh, 
u 2. Corin. 7. vers. 10.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, according to God, or for God, that is, obedient to Gods will, are never immoderate, neither bring they danger of life, or defect of grace, as worldly fear and sorrow do. But how cometh your disc●…etion to charge Christ's affections with immoderation? For your hell-paines you are content to plunge his body, and chiefly his soul into astonished and all comfortless confusion; and for submission to God, and confession and apprehension of the justness and greatness of his anger against our sins, you will not give him leave being our Agent and Intercessor in his own person to present that to God, which is due from us and for us; even inward sorrow for God's just displeasure, and an humble fear of his mighty power, thereby to honour the one and prevent the other, when he now addressed himself to make full satisfaction for our sins.  

x Defenc. pag. 115. li. 19  Though they somewhat molest the mind, yet in truth they are most pleasing and delightful to good men, not tedious, much less painful unto death.] The Apostle himself answereth this objection, and telleth you, that 
y Heb. 11.  no chastisement FOR THE PRESENT seemeth to be joyous, but grievous; yet AFTERWARDS it bringeth the quiet fruit of righteousness to them that are thereby exercised. Our Saviour by this example teacheth the same: Verily, 
z john 16.  Verily I say unto you, ye shall weep and lament, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she traveleth hath sorrow because her hour is come; but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembreth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is borne into the world. To say that pain is pleasure, and sorrow is delightful, fighteth against Nature, Scripture, and even against common sense; but God doth diversly comfort the affliction of his Saints with ending, easing, or otherwise recompensing them, whereby the faithful 
a 2. Cor. 4.  faint not, though their outward man perish, because our light affliction, which is for a moment, worketh to us a far exceeding and everlasting weight of glory. Though then our Saviour was on every side pressed with sundry sorrows, which would not end but in his death, yet that doth not prove them to be either irreligious, or utterly comfortless, since 
b Heb. 12.  for the joy that was set before him, he endured the cross, and despised the shame; and 
c revel. 3.  overcoming sitteth with his Father in his throne. By which confession of our saviours we must learn, that he used no power to repel or rebate his pains, but that he had as sensible and tender feeling of all his sufferings in the weakness of his flesh, which he with obedience and patience subjecteth to that burden, as any man could have, and rather more, in that he willingly laid aside his strength, whiles he suffered for sin.  

d Defenc. pag. 115. li. 21.  You do very ill to make these parts of Christ's holiness proper parts of his satisfaction, and the main causes of his agony and complaint. And worse you do, if you ascribe them not to any pains in him at all.] And what do you to acknowledge no cause in Christ of his complaint or agony, neither religious, nor natural, but only the pains of hell; and to sever the inward sacrifice of an afflicted spirit from the outward sacrifice of his body, for the purgation of our sins, since he wanted in no point that was required or accepted of God, but yielded that to him, which was due from us, in far more excellent and perfect manner than we can comprehend? It is therefore voluntary blindness and deafness in you, to shut eyes and ears at all sorts of religious sorrows and fears, when you read that Christ feared and sorrowed in the Garden, and so to pitch on the pains of the damned, which have no witness in holy writ, that nothing can remove you or content you, but your own conceit.  

e Defenc. pag. 115. li. 25.  Secondly, the sum of these fore-noted texts must be considered, namely, that Christ expressly wished sundry times in his dreadful astonishment, suddenly even against Gods known will in one respect: and here are expressed (with his strange astonishment) his mighty sorrows, and fear of them partly felt, and partly further to come.] After a large promise of clear proofs and express Scriptures for so great and weighty matters as these are, you trole out your own false and absurd conceits no way gathered from the Scriptures, but violently urged on them with more rage than reason, and now so often refuted, that a man would be wearic, if not ashamed, to spend so much time in these idle repetitions of the selfsame misapprehensions and misconstructions of some words of the Evangelist. The sum of all these fore-noted texts is, that the Evangelists say, Christ professed his soul was heavy unto death; that the Apostle addeth, he was heard in that he feared, that himself on the cross said, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me. All these places are already handled and cleared, and no pains of the damned or of the second death found any thing near to any of these words. What meaneth then this importunity to obtrude them again as fresh and new proofs, without any farther pains bestowed on them, then bar●…ly the rep●…ating of? only two poisened roots you have added to them out of your own store, the one is the dreadful and strange astonishment during all the time of Christ's prayer in the Garden; the other is the sundry sudden wishes of Christ in that astonishment even against Gods known will, which things, as your manner is, you prove by your own authority painting them out with dreadful, strange, and mighty words, when your proofs be weak and childish. That Christ prayed suddenly and sundry times against the known will of God, is a false and wicked position, and as directly repugnant to the Scriptures, as any thing may be. Saint Luke saith his prayer was 
f Luc. 22. v. 42  Father, if thou wilt, take away this cup from me; And the Apostle saith, he was heard, in that he feared. So that not only you avouch this thing against express Scripture, but you bring the son of God within the compass of unadvised and faithless prayers, which you excuse with as false and lewd a device, because he was past sense and memory what he did: whereas he well remembered, mentioned, and reserved his father's will in his prayers, and warned his Apostles to 
g Matth. 26.  watch and pray, that they entered not into temptation; and constantly continued his prayers, till he was 
h Luc. 22.  comforted by an Angel from heaven, and 
i Heb. 5.  heard in that he ●…eared.  
As for his astonishment, neither do the words used by the Evangelist Saint Mark import any such strange and dreadsull want of sense and memory, as you imagine; neither do the consequents declare any such continuance, as you pretend; but in both these you prescribe your own will ro be the rule of your faith. First the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth either admiration alone, or ●…ls a mixtion thereof with some fear upon any sudden or strange sight. When the Cripple, that lay at the beautiful gate of the temple ask alms, was healed by Peter and john; the people seeing him walking, and leaping, and praising God, were filled with admiration and astonishment, and flocked to Salomon's porch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, euèn amazed. This affection in them Peter expresseth in the next verse after this sort. 
k Acts 3. v. 12.  Ye men of Israel, saith he, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, why wonder you at this? 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or why look you so steadfastly on us? so that steadfast beholding, and inward admiring are the force of this word in that place. When Christ returned from the mountain, where he was transfigured, to his nine Disciples, that were disputing with the Scribes; 
l Mar. 9 v. 15.  All the people as soon as they saw him, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were amazed, and came to him, and saluted him. In neither of these places can we imagine, the people were strooken with such great fear, that should take their senses from them; and in this last it is expressly written; they ran and saluted him: which argueth, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 importeth a sudden admiration sometimes without fear, and sometimes permixed with fear for the sight of some strange or unknown thing. So the people when they saw him cast out unclean spirits with his word, 
m Mar. 1. v. 27.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, were all amazed, and asked one of another, What thing is this? What new doctrine is this? And the women that went early to Christ's sepulchre, and 
n Mar. 16. v. 5. &  saw a young man sitting clothed in a long white rob, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, they were afraid, and he said to them, 
o 6.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Be not afraid. In none of which places the word signifieth any hellish pain, or confusion; but either admiration, or such sudden fear joined with some wondering, as a strange or unknown sight breedeth; though we fear no hurt towards ourselves. And of these very words of Christ's sorrow, and fear or astonishment used by the Evangelists, S. jerom saith; 
p Hieronym. in Matth. ca 26.  Caepit contristari: aliud est enim contristari, aliud incipere contristari. Christ began to be sorrowful: for it is one thing to be sorrowful, and another thing to begin to be sorrowful. And so Origen: 
q Origen. in Matth. tract. 35.  Capit pavere vel tristari, nihil amplius tristitiae vel pavoris patiens nisi principium tantum. Christ began to be afraid or to be sorrowful, suffering no more but only the beginning of fear or sorrow. And consider, saith he, 
r Ibidem.  the Evangelist saith not he was afraid, or he was loaden with sorrow, but he began to be afraid and sorrowful. There is great difference betwixt sorrow, and the beginning of sorrow. And so he expoundeth Christ's words; My soul is heavy unto death; that is, Heaviness is begun in me, so that I am not altogether without some taste thereof.  
The continuance thereof the Scripture noteth not to be such that either bereaved him of memory, or hindered his prayers: for both he persisted in earnest and humble 
Christ did not pray in astonishment.  prayer, wherein he was heard, and carefully warned his Apostles that were with him, to watch and pray, that they entered not into temptation. Now prayer requireth not understanding and memory alone, but faith also. Of every man that would pray, Saint james saith, 
s james 1.  Let him ask in faith, and waver not: for he that wavereth is like the wave of the sea tossed with the wind. Neither let that man think he shall receive any thing of the Lord. And where by these tastes and touches of fear and sorrow you would insinuate your hell pains partly felt, and partly further to come; S. Austen telleth you that 
t August. 83. qu●…st. qu●…st. 33.  cognitu facile est, nullum metum esse nisi futuri & imminentis mali; it is easy to know there is no fear but of future and imminent evil. As also: 
u Ibidem.  Nihil erat inter omnia genera mortis illo genere execrabilius, & formidolosius. Amongst all kinds of death there was none more execrable and formidable than that kind of death on the cross, which Christ died. So that what Christ feared, was to come, and not present; as also he might have a natural mislike and fear of that kind of death, respecting as well the pain, which would be intolerable, as the exactness of patience required more in him than in all men living, because he might admit no declining nor disliking the sharpness thereof in the weakness of his flesh, were it never so grievous. This I speak of his bodily pains, besides the fear and sorrow that his soul might apprehend for the weighty work of man's redemption then in hand.  

x Defenc. pag. 115. li. 31.  You skip this kind of fear, when you reckon but four kinds: for this was neither a religious care, nor doubtful fear, nor desperate, nor damned fear, but a right natural fear in Christ] As though the ground of all these were not a natural fear and dislike of hell pains. For why do the faithful decline them, the weak conflict with them, the desperate sink under them, and the damned lie confounded in them, but because nature abhorreth and shuneth all kind of pain, and consequently the greatest, which is hell, with the greatest detestation that may be? You after your surly sort presume, that Christ really felt in the Garden the pains of the damned; I admitting no such device, did yet sufficiently comprise all kinds of fear concerning hell in that division of mine, since if they were presently felt of Christ, as they are of the damned, his fear of them must then needs be a damned fear, or rather pain, because he had, as you defend, a present sense of them, as the damned have. And therefore if you miss no more in your conclusions, than I did in my partition, your reasons would pass without any just reproof.  

y Defenc. pag. 116.  David wanted sometime the present feeling of God's comfortable spirit, and mourned dolefully for the want of it, albeit yet he was not destitute of his spirit inde●…de: which also himself knew well enough. And thus did Christ even in his greatest plunge of woe: for than he called God his God resolutely.] The example of David maketh nothing for your hell pains to be suffered in the soul of Christ, but very much against them, and yet between David's case in that Psalm and Christ's, there is no comparison. For David then was not pressed with any outward affliction, but strooken with an inward doubt of God's favour towards him, whom he had so greatly offended with adultery and homicide, and so long dallied with before repentance. Christ chose was never pressed with any doubt or distrust of God's favour towards himself, but the weakness of his flesh was burdened with extreme and intolerable pains. What affinity then had David's fear of rejection with Christ's sense of affliction? and yet were they like, what gain you by that? David was truly penitent, when he made that psalm; and true repentance I hope putteth not men into the pains of hell. Again, David you confess was not then destitute of God's spirit, which also himself knew well enough. But the spirit of God is life to the soul of man, and quickeneth it. Ergo David, though he wanted the full peace and joy of conscience, which he calleth salvation, yet he lived in soul, and was far from the second death. How much more than was Christ's soul free from all these things, in whom was the fullness of God's spirit with all his gifts and graces any way needful for the Saviour of the world, though glory were differred, and joy diminished for the time by excess of pain? To wish ease of pain, or to grieve at the sharpness thereof, is natural unto man, and therefore may well be granted to have been in Christ; as also to lack the fullness of joy and comfort, till his sufferings were over past. But he never wanted the joy of salvation, nor assurance thereof, and therefore he doubled his invocation on the cross, saying not only, My God, my God, but Father forgive them, and Father into thine hands I commend my spirit: and in the Garden he resolutely pronounced as often, if not oftener, 
z Mat. 26. vers. 39 42.  O my Father. Which words do most apparently prove, that Christ had never any other persuasion, suspicion, or fear, but that God was his God, and his Father, and therefore most certainly bare towards him a fatherly love and affection; though he knew it was his Father's will, he should inwardly and outwardly grieve a while for our sins, and so receive ease by death, joy by Paradise, and glory by his speedy and heavenly resurrection.  

a Defenc. pag. 116 li. 14.  Thirdly add hereunto Christ's own express words, when in this season he prayeth that this hour, and this cup might pass from him. That which this hour and this cup do signify, the same is the proper and principal cause of this agony: but what can be meant by this hour, unless the pains of his suffering set and appointed by God for him to be are at his determined time from God's justice for sin? What is this cup, but the bitter taste of the same pains, aforesaid? this I hope was not his holiness and sanctification, which so troubled and molested him, nor his piety, nor his pity.] If you permit our Saviour to be the interpreter of his own words, as he was the speaker, than neither this hour, nor this cup import any thing suffered in the garden. After his agony past, and prayers ended in the garden, Christ said to his Disciples, ᵇ Sleep henceforth, and take your rest, behold THE HOUR draweth near, and the Son of man is given into the hands of sinners. And so to the jews, that came to approhend him, 
c 〈◊〉  this is your very hour and the power of darkness. And when Peter would with force have defended him, he said; 
d 〈◊〉  Put up thy sword into thy sheath, shall I not drink of the cup which my Father hath given me? So that this ●…ower and this cup were to come, when his agony was ended; and were they not, why may not this hour and this cup contain in them as well his painful affections o●… sorrow and fear, as his other sufferings? Was not the Cup mixed that he drank; and the hour long enough to comprise all that he suffered? But what maketh either of those for your hell pains? Was there no Cup for him to drink, nor time for him to suffer, except your hellish torments were interposed? His sufferings than are confessed, though no fear nor sorrow might besiege him, but such as was joined with obedience and patience; and in the midst of his afflictions he neither neglected submission to God, nor compassion to men. You with the one would exclude the other; and I see no words nor cause, but both might be joined in one hour and one Cup, whatsoever you pretend to the contrary.  

e Defenc. pag. 110. li. 23.  Nay finally he himself expresseth the true cause, even his excessive pains, his overabounding sorrows and anguish; saying, My soul is full of pains, or full of sorrows even unto death. here he nameth the cause.] You are a man of much intelligence, that out of Christ's words would conclude his sorrow to be the cause of itself. For where by Christ's agony, if it be largely taken, you must mean his fear, and his sorrow confessed in that speech, My soul is heavy (or sorrowful) unto death; You make no more ado but avouch, that Christ here nameth sorrow to be the cause of his agony, that is of his sorrow. For if by his agony you mean his bloody sweat, from these words to that part of his action in the garden you shall never make any consequent. The Evangelist expressly saith, There appeared an Angel from heaven comforting him, and then falling into an agony he prayed more earnestly, and in that vehement prayer his sweat was like drops of blood. He was comforted before this last prayer, and therein rather with the intention of spirits for zeal, then with the remission of them for fear, he did sweat, as the Scripture noteth. Now whereof received he comfort, but of his sorrow? and what is comfort but a depulsion or mitigation of sorrow? what sense then can it have, to say, that after Christ's sorrow was eased and comforted from heaven, his sorrow decreasing, his agony of sorrow so much increased, that he sweat blood for very sorrow? how hang these contraries together, which you would hale out of Christ's own words? In the former part of his action in the garden, wherein he prayed the cup might pass from him, he said his soul was heavy (or sorrowful) unto death. We inquire the cause of this sorrow. You answer, that Christ's own words express and name sorrow to be the cause thereof. What is this, but to collude with Christ's words in making his sorrow to be the cause of his sorrow, which in a more general and confused word you call his agony? but with us the cause of his sorrow is in question; to that you neither can, nor do say any thing out of Christ's words; out of your own conceit you presume, that Christ's 
f Pa. 116. li. 31.  excessive pains (then felt,) and the entire want of feeling of God's comfort, and nothing else was the proper and principal cause of that sorrow. But these be your additions and expositions, they be no part of Christ's words, nor meaning.  
And by what authority, to advantage your error, do you not only contr●…le the translation used by all the Latin Fathers; Tertullian, Cyprian, Hilarius, ●…erom, Ambrose, Austen, Fulgentius, Bede and others, but even corrupt the words of our Saviour rendered by the Evangelists Matthew and Mark? Tristis est enima mea usque ad mortem, My soul is heavy (sad or sorrowful) unto death, say all the Latin Fathers save Tertullian, who saith, 
g Tertullian. de carne Christi.  Anxia est anima mea usque ad mortem, My soul is 〈◊〉 unto death. The Evangelists words are, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 My soul is heavy (or on every side heavy and sorrowful) unto death. You translate it, 
h Pa. 116. li. 25.  My soul is full of pains, meaning by pains present inherent and absolute pains, such as your hell-paines are; where the words import no such thing: for neither tristitia in Latin, nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greek, either in profane or divine Writers, note any such actual and absolute impression of pain, as you would have, but an affection troubling the mind, and rising upon opinion of evil past or instant. Of sorrow Saint Austen saith right well: 
i Au●…ust. in Psal 42.  Dolour animae tristitia dicitur, molestia quae fit in corpore, Dolour dici potest, tristitia non potest, The grief of the soul is called (heaviness or) sorrow, the grief of the body is called pain, not sorrow. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greek with profane Writers is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; which Cicero translateth, 
k Tuscul. quaest libro 4.  Opinio recens mali praesentis, A fresh opinion of present or insta●…t evil. The Scriptures in like sort use the same word, opposing it to the affection of joy, and expressing by it not any actual or absolute pain, but grief and sadness of mind, which we call sorrow. 
l joh. ●…6. v. 20.  The world shall rejoice, and you shall be sorrowful, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, but your SORROW shall be turned to joy. So Paul: 
m 2. Cor. 2.  I would not come again to you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in heaviness: for if I made you sor●…, who is he that should make me gl●…d, but the same that was made SORRY by me. And this very thing I wrote unto you, lest when I came, I should have SORROW of them of whom I should have joy. When the rest of the servants saw what the evil servant, that was pardoned of his master the great debt of 10000 talents, did to his fellow that ought him an hundred pence, 
n Matth 18. vers. ●…1.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, they were very sorry. And when Christ said to his Disciples, One of you shall betray me, 
o Matth. 26. vers. 22.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, they were exceeding sorrowful, and b●…ganne every on●… to say, Master is it I? As also when ●…e told them of his departure and their troubles; he added, 
p ●…ohn 16.  Because I have spoken these things unto you, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, sorrow hath filled your hearts. And generally throughout the New Testament 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth no where signifi●… actual and absolute pa●…ne, but grief and sorrow of mind. And therefore your wresting of our saviours words with a false translation in saying, My soul is full of pains, intending thereby the pains of the damned inflicted by God's immedia●…e hand, is a false and lewd corruption.  

q Defence pag. 116. li. 34.  Here we will remember again, what is taught by authority in England. The rather for that you take on as a man impatient, because I do affirm, that our doctrine (not yours) hath the publi●…e authority for it. You call it an egregiou●… lie, an insolent and impudent speech, well becoming ●…n alchouse, etc. and yet in the very next page in plain terms you grant the same to be taught in our h●…milie of Christ's Passion.] The way to mend a lie, is not to double it, and ●…riple it, but to see your error, that you may acknowledge the truth. I●… I had then cau●…e to dislike the egregious lie, which I justly challenged, I have now more, wh●…n to save your ●…elfe from some impudency, you ●…hew more than stupidity. You would needs in your treatise amongst other untruths avouch, that your doctrine 〈◊〉 the 
r Treatis. pa. 89 li. 13.  public authorised doctrine of England, delivered in the book of homilies. I told you then, which yet is true, that this as well as others, was an insolent and impudent speech. You ask 
s Defenc. 〈◊〉 ●…7. 〈◊〉. 30.  who is that egregious liar now? 
t Defenc. 〈◊〉 ●…7. 〈◊〉. 35.  you hope you are clear from it.] Even he that was before, and you are clear from it, as judas was from betraying Christ, by ●…aying is it I master? to clear yourself, you now say, your exposition of those words, My God, my God, why host thou forsaken me, is found in the book of Homilies, and that I myself in plain words confess so much. Then are you the verier liar to say, this is your doctrine which I impugned, or that our main question was about the exposition of those words. Christ's complaint on the cross, I said, did not proo●…e your hell-paines, nor the second death to be suffered in Christ's soul, which way soever you expounded it, so you followed any example of Scripture using that word. To reprobation or desperation, if your conscience did thereto stretch, you might apply this word by some examples of Scriptures, but not to real and actual damnation, no not in the most wicked castaways that ●…uer were. The sundry senses, which I gave out o●… the Fathers, show the w●…aknesse of your illation from those words, they directly touch not the main point of doctrine, questioned betwixt us; and amongst the●…e senses this was one, which the book of Homilies seemeth to follow. The direct cause of Christ's fear, sorrow, and bloody sweat, since the Scripture concealed it, I said could not be certainly concluded thence; what is that to Christ's complaint on the cross, whose words though they may be extended to express his pains, y●…t your doctrine is no whit the truer for all that, nor the more confirmed by the laws of this Realm. So that the lie by your leave doth lie where it did, only you have furnished the former lie with two or three fresher, and as your use is, you correct matters amiss by making them worse than they were.  

u Defenc. pag. 117. li. 6.  Here I am sure you think not that our Homily maketh Christ's piety or pity, nor yet his mere bodily pain to force him thus far. Nor in these words next following there, O that mankind s●…ould put the everlasting son of God in such pains for the grievousness of our sins.] Are you sure what I think? well fare your wisdom yet, that when you should prove your doctrine to be received and authorized by the public laws of this Realm, you are sure, I am of your mind. This is not only a childish fainting, but foolish dallying, to clear yourself from a notorious lie by assuring your sel●…e what I think. If you will needs know what I think, first it is evident to him that readeth these homili●…s, that the whole summ●… and mean of our redemption being the●…e purposely delivered, neither of these homilies speaketh one word of your hell-paines, nor of the second death to be suffered in the soul of Christ. Again it is as evident, that the suffering of a shameful and painful death in Christ's body is there taught to be the only sacrifice for our sins. The words are. 
x 1. Sermon of the Passion. pa. 5.  There is none other thing, that can be named under heaven, to save our souls, but this only work of Christ's precious offering of his body on the Altar of the Crosse. What pains Christ suffered on the Cross, whether the pains of the damned, or of his body bruised and broken on the Cross, the book itself doth plainly witness. ᶜ Christ being the son of God, and 
y 2. Ser●…on of the Passion. pa. 9  perfect God hims●…lfe, who never committed sin, was compelled to come down from heaven, and to give his BODY TO BE BRVISED, AND BROKEN ON THE CROSS for our sins. Was not this a manifest token of God's great wrath and displeasure towards sin, that he could be pacisied by none other means, but ONLY BY THE SWEET AND PRECIOUS BLOOD of his dear son? If you teach this, that the bruising and breaking of Christ's body on the Cross, and the shedding of his precious blood was the ONLY MEAN to pacify God's wrath against sin, than I did you wrong to call your speech impudent; but if this be the new doctrine which I defend, and you impugn, then do you deserve not only the terms which I gave, but worse, so openly and obstinately to resist, deface, and bely public authority.  

z Defenc. pag. 117. li. 12.  Add her●…unto the full and large declaration hereof in the authorised Catechism. Christ suff●…red not only a common death in the sight of men, but also was thoroughly touched with the horror of eternal death, etc. When he did take upon him and bear both the guiltiness and just pain of mankind damned and lost, he was afflicted with so grievous fear, trouble, and sorrow of mind or soul, that he cried out, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me.] I make good difference betwixt the Book of Homilies confirmed as well by the public authority of Prince and Parliament, Anno Reginae 13. ca: 12; as by the general subscription of the upper and neither house in the convocation Anno 1571 to 
a In the 35. article of Homilies.  contain godly, wholesome and necessary doctrine; and the Catechism then licensed to be taught in Schools to young scholars, but without any such authority as the former is. Show the like approbation. and you shall freely call it the public autorized doctrine of England; till you do so, give me leave to tell you, that the one is indeed by public authority received and ratified, even as the articles are; the other was by private discretion permitted and tolerated to be taught in Grammar schools, but public authority of the whole Realm you may challenge none unto it. And therefore I take myself in matters of faith not bound unto it, farther than it acordeth with the manifest truth delivered in the ●…acred Scriptures. Again yourself do●… more impugn the Catechism, than I do. For if your own words be true that Christ, when he uttered those 
b Defenc. pag. 110. li. 28. & 34.  words, spoke in his mind of his constant and continual joy in God, and was in exceeding general, and constant joy. What place leave you for any of those words, which you cite out of the Catechism, to have any truth in them, since they speak of exceeding and horrible fears and sorrows, which I think are contrary to your triumphant, general, and constant joy? And although I think it no reason, that a thing privately permitted, should abrogate the full and main consent of the learned and ancient Fathers, as you would have it to do; and therefore make it free, when the Carechisme swatueth from their sense and interpretation, to be of another mind; yet I condemn nothing in it as wicked, but wish that so●…e few places had been more clearly and more particularl●…e delivered and expressed, to avoid such cavillers, as you and some others are. But you with open mouth rei●…ct even those places, which now you produce, as passing strange doctrine, and simply impossible. For where the Catechism here in these words, which you allege, saith Christ was Aeternae mortis horrore perfusus, perfused (or wholly touched) with an horror (which is a trembling fear) of eternal death; you not only reason against it, that 
c Defenc. pag. 9●… li. 13.  Christ could not fear that, which he perfectly knew concerned him not at all, and by no means could ever possibly come near him; but you make it 
d li. 12.  passing strange doctrine, and simply impossible, that Christ should fear, or pray against the whole and entire cup of eternal death. And yet the Catechism saith, he trembled and was overcast with the horror of it. You mis●…ike that the Catechism saith, except you may pervert it to your pleasure; and in steed of fearing eternal death, you say Christ suffered the second death, which is die death of the damned; and so refusing the Catechism for saying so much, you say more, and think the Catechism is of your mind. But sir, tell us, how Christ could be strooken with the HORROR OF ETERNAL DEATH, for those a●…e the words of the Catechism, and not how he suffered your new made hell, which the Catechism never speaketh of. I have delivered two senses to salve the Catechism, which you impugn. The first, that Christ in respect of his members, to whom that death was due, might in love and piety towards them, inwardly tremble at the punishment deserved by them, since mercy maketh us truly feel the very smart of other men's harms and dangers, and where we heartily love, no less then if they were imminent over our own heads. The second, that Christ fearing the power of God's wrath against sin, which is infinite, may in a sort be said to tremble at the effects thereof, by reason he trembled at the cause thereof. And in this sense the consideration, and apprehension of God's infinite power and displeasure against sin might br●…ede those horrible fears and sorrows, which the Catcchisme talketh of. Otherwise I must be plain, the Catechism saith more, then can be proved by any Scripture, or any learned and ancient Father; and more than you yourself allow or like, save that you would out of his vehement speeches make some advantage to your cause, though in substance you wholly descent from the maker thereof. For he speaketh of fear and sorrow, you of re 〈◊〉 all solute suffering; he of eternal death due to sin, you of a new found hell from the immediate hand of God, which is no part of the Catcchisers meaning, since he plainly nameth future and everlasting death due to sinners, and not a present and temporal hell, which is not the full wages of sin, nor of the damned.  
The like I say for the notes added by the Printer or corrector to the great Bible, whose text is authorized to be read in the Church, but not the notes to be of equal credit or authority with the text. And if you may turn of the whole a●…ay of ancient and Catholic Fathers, because they diflent from your conceits, how much less am I bound to correctors or Printers, adding often times to other men's works and labours, what pleaseth themselves? Though the note be not such, but that it may receive the former construction, and be tolerated wel●… enough. Wherefore I mean even the same giddy spirit (which before I did) buzzing in the ears of the people his own fancies against the Scriptures, against the Fathers, and against the doctrine of this Realm confirmed by public authority of Prince and Parliament. The recollecting of your former reason so lately and largely answered, I omit as tedious trifling; and since you say no more than is before refuted, what should I trouble myself and the Reader with repeating the same things so often iterated?  

e Defence pag. 118. li. 10.  You have yet here and there some exceptions against this our doctrine, which are not to be clean neglected. First you say I extend Christ's agony to far: because I will have is proceed from the intolerable sorrows and horrors of Gods fiery wrath equal to ●…ell. I show not there the cause of Christ's agony and fear, I showed it of purpose in the beginning. Why did you not refuse that?] You extend it so far according to my words, yea your main purpose is to make that the cause of Christ's agony in the garden and on the cross; only you would use some cunning in the carriage of it, first to make sorrows and fears the cause thereof, and at the next step to ask what sorrows and fears could those be, but the intolerable sorrows and horrors of Gods fiery wrath equal to hell. And to this end you quote both the Catechism, and the notes in the great Bible here, to show the cause of Christ's agony to be these horrible sorrows and torments, as the Catechism saith, of future and everlasting death. Why then are you so nice, when you fully intent it, in show to deny it? [why did you not refuse that in the beginning?] The causes, that might concur in Christ's agony, I showed in my sermons out of the ancient Fathers agreeing with the Scriptures; why should I repeat it again in my conclusion, you bringing nothing against it, but a few voluntary and empty words, which I know no man so unwise as to regard without better proof? [
f pa: 118. li. 32  There is no other sorrow in the world to be found, which can be imagined to be the cause possibly.] You err as well in aggravating Christ's agony above that the text avoucheth, as in assigning a false cause thereof out of your own fancy. Fear and sorrow the Scripture affirmeth in Christ, if we so interpret the words, as you do; but such fear, and such sorrow, as cannot be found in the world, except the fears & sorrows of the second death, this is your bold assertion no way mentioned, nor purposed in the Scriptures, nor grounded on any sound reason or experience. For where the pains of some kinds of bodily deaths be often greater than man's nature can endure, and therefore violently part the soul from the body; what did hinder the pains of Christ's body on the cross, to be such, that they pressed his patience to the highest degree, since he would not strengthen his flesh to sustain the pains of hell, as you pretend, but laid down all power, that he might feel the smart and anguish of his bodily torments as tenderly, as any man could? Now what pains in others overwhelm the senses, and hasten death, as passing the strength of man's nature, why might not even the same bodily pains in Christ so press his human weakness; that he felt himself able with patience to support no more, and so prayed on the cross for an end thereof; and foresaw so much in the Garden, which made him earnest, if it were possible, to decline it? What can be said against this sharpness and bitterness of bodily pain, since in all Martyrs and malefactors their deaths declare, that pain in the end doth so prevail, that the rage thereof is utterly intolerable to man's nature, and therefore sundereth the soul from the body with extreme violence, as exceeding all human●… patience and strength?  

g Defenc. pag. 118. li. 34.  My other words also, which here you cruelly condemn, shall stand well enough, that Christ as touching the vehemency of pain, was as sharply touched, as the reprobates themselves, yea, if it may be, more extraordinarily; though you labour with might and main to make them amount to heresy and open blasphemy.] My words were more moderate, than your dangerous comparisons deserved. 
h Conclus. pa. 290. li 35.  I prayed you in so weighty matters, as might amount to heresy and open blasphemy, not to play with general terms, such as you neither understood yourself, nor any man else could conceive your meaning. You would needs tell us, that Christ in soul was as sharply touched, and with as great vehemency of pain, even as the reprobates themselves, and more if it might be. I asked you not where you found this written in the word of God, which is the rule of our faith; an unwritten cre●…de must needs have unwritten conclusions; nor how you proved it, for your own will is your best warrant for your new faith: but what you meant thereby. The terrors of the reprobates in this life, which we might collect by the Scriptures, were 
i Ibid. pa. 291.  remorse of sin, rejection from God's favour, desperation of mercy here, and of all joy and blisle in the world to come, and a dreadful expectation of horrible confusion, and everlasting fire. 
k Ibidem.  I thought you durst not, I hoped you would not offer so much as the mention of the least of these to be found in the son of God. What wrong did I here unto you, were it not with too much sparing you? and how plainly did I provoke you to express your self, but that your cunning is such, that then you did, and yet you do forbear to unfold your general and ambiguous speeches. You persist still in your old song, and say that touching the vehemency of pain, this is true. As though remorse, rejection, desperation, and expectation of everlasting confusion, and fire were NO PAINS to the souls of the reprobates. Why play you with the name of pain to and fro after this sort? Why role you sometimes to fears, sometime to sorrows, sometime to pains, as the causes of Christ's agony; and those sometime apprehended by the mind of Christ, sometime really inflicted by God's immediate hand? what Christ did, or might apprehend, you never declare; you think it enough to tell us, his 
l Defenc. pag. 52. li. 35.  understanding chiefly conceived the fury of that hand, which principally struck those blows upon his human nature: and thus with Metaphors you delude us, when you should distinctly deliver, what Christ conceived of those afflictions, which he suffered from the counsel and power of God determining them for man's redemption. Yea besides apprehension and conception of mind, you bring in your hell pains at your pleasure, as an inherent and absolute torment really inflicted on the soul of Christ by God's immediate hand, as it is on all the damned after this life for the vengeance of their sins; and when you are asked the proof of these things, you afford us figures and phrases to stuff out your wallet.  

m Defenc. pag. 119. li. 1.  Why do you not bend your odious outcries and accusations against the authority before truly cited, which maintaineth the same so fully and amply, as I deliver it?] The Catechism hath some general words, that Christ conflicted with all the powers of hell, not as suffering them, but as resisting them, and that he endured horrible fears and griefs of mind to satisfy the judgement of God, and to pacify his wrath. These words if you will stretch to what please you, they may seem to have some seeds of your error, though not the buds and branches thereof: but as they be general, so if we revoke them to the grounds of the sacred Scriptures, which was no doubt the writers and the allowers meaning, then may we extend them no farther, than we have warrant in the word of God to justify them. The fears and horrors, which you would convert to the real suffering of the temporal hell, the Catechism referreth to the fear and horror of everlasting death; which you confess Christ 
n Defence pag. 99  most perfectly knew concerned him not at all, and by no means could ever possibly come near him. How then do you concur with the authority, which you cite, save that you pervert some general words there used by misapplying them to your fancy? Otherwise fears and sorrows, to satisfy and pacify the wrath of God against our sins, Christ might have, and yet be far from the pains of the damned, and the second death, yea from the terrors and confusion of the wicked; since he knowing the justness and greatness of God's anger against sin, and how impossible it was for him with patience to support the power thereof, either in soul, or in body, might give God his due by inward and evident sorrow for sin, and fear of God's power, by which the fierceness of God's indignation against sin was rebated and calmed, and so much pain proportioned to the weakness of Christ's flesh, as should not exceed the patience of his human nature. But this doth no way further your hell pains suffered in the soul of Christ, since these religious fears and sorrows, which mitigate the wrath of God, though they be painful in themselves, yet have they no communion with the fears and sorrows of the reprobate, much less of the damned.  

o Defence pag. 119. li. 5.  What reason have you against our assertion? Verily only this you oppose, because all the sorrows of the reprobate are but sinful guiltiness of conscience, or fears of judgement foreseen, which is executed only in the next life; you mean only in the definite and local hell. Which is no refutation of my assertion, that Christ was as sharply touched with pain, as the very reprobate.] When men affirm strange and new positions in Christian religion, they must not ask what reason can be brought against them, but they must show where that they teach is written in the word of God, or inevitably concluded from that which is written: for 
p Rom. 10.  faith is by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. So that if you take upon you to be a Coiner of new Creeds, we must not believe you, till by reason we can refute you, but you ought 
q Prou. 30.  not to add to the word of God, lest you be found a liar. Show then, where these comparisons and positions are written; if not, fear the plagues appointed for such as add their lies to the Truth of God. And yet to exclude all comparison between Christ and the reprobate in this case, what better reason can be brought, than that Christ's fears and sorrows had no soci●…tie nor affinity with the fears and terrors of the reprobate? for no rule of reason alloweth you to compare things together, that have no likeness betwixt themselves. You make Christ and the reprobate, yea and the damned, equal in pain, and Christ's pains superior to the sharpest of theirs, and yet when all is said, there is no kind of likeness betwixt their pains.  

r Defence pag. 119. li. 11.  Though the wicked in this world did never suffer any real effect of God's burning wrath working actual vengeance on their souls for sin, but only some guilty remorse or fear, and nothing else, yet this letteth not but that Christ whom God ordained extraordinarily and alone to be in this life a whole and absolute burnt sacrifice for all sin, did feel and suffer the same truly, properly, and perfectly.] You were of opinion in your Treatise, and set it down resolutely for one of your new-made Maxims, That the 
s Trea. pa. 77. li. 5.  pains and sufferings of God's wrath did ALWAYS ACCOMPANY THEM that are separated from the grace and love of God. And even there you also affirmed, 
t li. 9  Christ suffered the horror of God's severe justice LIKE THEM, who be separated indeed from the grace and love of God. If you stand to these words, you must confess that Christ suffered the horror of rejection, confusion, and desperation, LIKE to the reprobate, which is even as the reprobate do suffer it; and then inevitably you fasten on the soul of Christ a plain persuasion, and inward feeling, that he was for the time rejected, confounded, and severed from God, as the reprobate be, which whether it will amount to open impiety, I leave to the Christian Reader to judge. Your cunning in two leaves after, with as touching the vehemency of pain, is a giddy device, when you have made their horrors like, then to restrain it to the sharpness of pain: for thereby you do not intend to make their horrors unlike, which before you pronounced to be like, but that their horrors being LIKE, their pains can not be unlike. Since than pain and grief of mind is a necessary consequent to horror, as it is to fear and sorrow, you do not recall, but confirm your former imp●…etic, That Christ having the same horror of God's justice and wrath, which the reprobate have, must needs have the same pain; forsomuch as that horror is not without pain answerable to it in the soul of man despairing the goodness of God, and beholding nothing in God but his terrible and fiery indignation against sin. That the wicked have ALWAYFS these horrors accompanying them in this life, is a great and gross untruth; the 73 Psalm doth avouch the clean contrary: 
u Psal. 73. ver.  Lo these are the wicked, yet prosper they alway. So that they for the most part live here in pleasure and abundance, neither are they plagued with (other) men, but 
x Luke 16.  receive their good things in this life, save when the wisdom and justice of God is pleased to make some of them examples unto others: for then these inward terrors of mind raised with remorse of sin, and fear of judgement to come, do desperately, finally, and utterly overwhelm them. This now you begin to see, which before was not within your thoughts, and therefore you now affirm, that though the wicked did suffer no such thing as you before said they ALWAYS suffered, yet this doth not hinder, but Christ did feel and suffer the same. What doth not hinder, is not the question, but what doth help you to prove that Christ did suffer your new-made hell from the immediate hand of God in the garden, or on the cross. I hope you bring it not for an argument, that the wicked do not suffer it in this life; ergo Christ did suffer it. That were very strange both Logic and Divinity.  

y Defenc. pag. 119. li. 18.  Second: how I have always expressly excluded from Christ all sinful adherents and consequents in pains and fears which are in the wicked, and do resemble his to theirs only in sharpness and vehemency of pain, I have often declared before.] In general words you would seem to exclude them, but by your positions and comparisons you conclude the contrary: for if you exempt from Christ all fear and doubt of his Father's love towards him, and confess he had perfect and full assurance of all God's promises in the midst of his pains; tell us then how the horrors of the reprobate could invade his soul? Show us how the fullness of truth and grace always dwelling in him, he could be so confounded and amazed, as to feel or think himself forsaken of God, when he neither was, nor could be s●…uered from the love, life, favour or spirit of God? Absolute and inherent pain not derived from fear or sorrow, but only discerned by the natural powers and faculties of the soul, if you put in the mind of Christ, it must neither exc●…ed his patience, nor evert his obedience: for if you make him fail or saint in either of these, you presently close him within the compass of impatience and disobedience, which are more than sinful consequents. Now that the true pains 
●…emency of hell pains pass the patience of men and angels.  o●… hell or of the damned may be suffered of men or angels, or of Christ himself with patience, you must look to prove, before you take liberty to affirm. You may suppose what you list, but afore any Christian man may give credit to your dreams, he must see them sound prou●…d, not by your own heady and hasty positions, but by the undoubted word of Truth, which only is the meet measure to direct things in and after this life. And for fears and sorrows, which sometimes beset the godly by the weakness of their faith, and remembrance of their sins, and subvert the wicked in the midst of their peace and pleasure, when their destruction draweth near; neither of these can be either in the Elect or Reprobate in this life without so●…e sinful defects in God's servants, and desperate impieties in his enemies: for these fears and sorrows do shake the faith and hope of such as should believe and trust in God's promises and mercies; and in the wicked they work an utter relapsing and recuiling from all affiance and expectance, that God will be gracious unto them. In Christ then these were more sinful than in any other, if after so clear and constant promises and oaths secretly decreed, formerly revealed, and lastly proclaimed by God from heaven, the Son of God should stagger, and waver in the full and immovable persuasion and resolution of Gods most gracious purpose and promise, faith and favour towards him. Wherefore his apprehension of God's wrath against our sins must be such as might not call the love that God bore towards him in any question; but he might well behold the justness and greatness of God's displeasure against our uncleanness, and knowing full well the power of God's wrath to exceed infinitely the strength of his human nature, with sorrow and fear due to so great, and yet so str●…ngth indignation against our sins, he might assuage and pacify the fierceness of that anger, which we had provoked; and by most humble confession and submission quench the flame thereof, which otherwise would burn to everlasting destruction of all resisters and neglecters of God's holiness and righteousness.  

z Defenc. pa●…. 119. li. 21.  Thirdly the case is clear enough that the reprobate many times in this life do not only fear the judgement to come, but also do feel some real and actual impression of God's burning wrath, and even of hell torments, though not being yet in the local hell.] Is it clear enough, that the pains of the damned are sometimes executed here in this life on the reprobate, and that by God's immediate hand? what Scripture have you for it? that horrible fears and terrors do sometimes besiege them, and that the Devil doth now & then possess and torment some of them, who are out of God's protection, the Scripture witnesseth, as well by rules, as by examples: but that the pains of the damned are no greater, then are felt in this life, or that this mortal flesh is able to endure the true torments of hell, under which the Devils themselves do sink, what rule or reason leadeth you to that presumptuous error? Cain was afflicted with the terror of his own conscience, Saul was vexed with an evil spirit sent from the Lord, and into judas the devil entering drove him with desperation to confess his sin, and to hang himsel●…e. Other examples of men possessed and tormented by Devils, are many in the Gospel. Which of these whom you name, did not eat, sleep, and manage other affairs of this life, as time did permit them, notwithstanding their inward torments of mind? Saul was eased with music, when the evil spirit of God vexed him, and lived as king of Israel in that case almost forty years. Cain lived a long time after he was cast from God's presence, and begat children on his wife. Can men have leisure or list to do or desire any of these things in the true torments of hell? You will make an easy hell, if the torments there be no greater, but that men may eat, sleep, beget children and delight themselves with melody. The greatest fear that ever afflicted Saul for aught that we read, was when he that appeared in sh●…w of Samuel, said to Saul, 
a 1. Sam. 2●….  To morrow shalt thou and thy s●…nes be with me, and the L●…rd shall give the host of the: Israelites into the hands of the Philistines: for then be feli straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, and at first refused to eat, but after at the persuasion of the witch and his servants, he 
b Ibid. ver. 23. ●… 25.  arose from the earth, and did 
c Heb. 10.  eat. Prate of this so long as you will, no wise man will wander so far from the truth, as to think they have such leisure, and ease in the pains of hell.  

d Defenc. pag. 119. li. 25.  For proof whereof that which before I alleged out of job and others, that even the godly here want not experience of the sorrows of hell sometimes, you pass over answering nothing thereunto. Which being so in the godly, it must needs be in Cain, judas, and the reprobates, far more direful and intolerable sometimes.] Such proofs do well become such a cause. The godly are sometimes afraid of God's displeasure, and are pursued with the temptations and snares of Satan. Ergo they feel the very torments of the damned. What show of reason is in this which is worth the answering? and yet how often have I repelled this peevish presumption; and observed, that if desperation which is the greatest torment of this life, be but a 
e Heb. 10.  fearful looking for of judgement and violent fire, which shall devour the adversaries, The difference is great betwixt the expectance, and the experience of that terrible judgement, at which the Devil himself trembleth. Which may soon be gathered, though not so soon be measured. For the destruction and confusion of the damned may better be feared then known, forsomuch as the Scripture threateneth that, as the full wages of wickedness, and highest degree of God's displeasure against sin. But you are unansweared you say.] Some weighty reasons belike, that require so exactly an answer. Every trifle with you must have a special answer, when you skip leaves by the dozen, and speak to no more than you mistake, or misconstrue. But let us hear your proofs, which want answer, as you pretend.  

f Treat. pa. 46.  The members of Christ do wrestle with the power of darkness, and endure the fiery darts of the devil.] A learned reason, and like the maker. Doth the Apostle there speak of hell torments, or of the temptations to sin, busily offered by Satan to all the godly? if your conceit of hell pains be true, we must wrestle, not with the powers of darkness, but with God himself, by whose immediate hand, as you imagine, the pains of hell are inflicted on all men's souls. As wisely you quote, that the members of Christ endure the fiery darts of the devil, where the Apostle willeth them to take the shield of faith, wherewith they may quench all the fiery darts of the Devil. Whence if your corruption and misconstruction of the text were true, may be drawn a good argument against your hell pains to be suffered in the soul of Christ. For the shield of faith (as the Apostle noteth) quencheth all the fiery darts of the Devil, which you presume to be the fiery pains of hell. Christ then, who wanted no perfection of faith, endured none of these fiery darts of the Devil, since they are all quenched by faith. Choose now, whether by your own reason you will charge Christ with infidelity, or discharge him from enduring your fiery darts of the Devil, which you suppose to be the pains of hell, except you play with this place to no purpose. Howbeit in these words the fiery darts of the Devil are not the torments of hell, but either dangerous temptations, which quenching our faith consume and waste our consciences, as fire doth where it taketh hold; or else sins, which inflame our hearts with wicked and worldly desires, making them burn with unlawful and ungodly lusts.  

g Treat. pa. 46 li. 2.  job crieth out, The arrows of the almighty are in me, the venom whereof doth drink up my spirit, and the terrors of God sight against me.] Out of these metaphors, whereby job describeth the vehemency of that disease, wherewith the Devil struck him 
h job. 2.  from the sole of the foot unto the crown, You shall never conclude any thing for the pains of hell. Metaphors make no direct conclusions in doctrine, but serve to resemble, or amplify the things, to which they are applied. Then as venomous arrows do not only tear and wound the flesh, but the poison added doth inflame the whole body, and consume the vital spirits; so job complaineth, that his disease did not only rot, but burn his flesh, and waste his spirits, so that the pain thereof was intolerable. By the terrors of God, he meaneth the terrible and bitter affliction sent from God, and not the pains of hell, as you fond conceive. For that these words are applied to the grievousness of his disease, appeareth both by jobs speech and wish. 
i job. 6. ver. 12  Is my strength, saith he, the strength of stones? is my flesh of brass, that it can endure the rage of this disease? Wherefore he wisheth, 
k job. 6 ver. 9  that God would destroy him (with this sickness) and cut him of (by death,) 
l vers. 10.  then should I yet have comfort, though I burn with sorrow, let him not spare. 
m vers. 11.  What is mine end, that I should prolong my life? job wisheth not here destruction of body and soul, that were more madness; but he desireth an end of his life, that he might have rest and comfort. Then doth he not mean the terrors of conscience, which bring with them a most uncomfortable end, but the terrors of his 
n Ibid. ver. 21.  fearful plague, which death would ease, & not augment. Not that I think job wanted dangerous temptations in his grievous afflictions; but that this may be referred either to the greatness of his plague, or to the unquietness of his mind, though he always trusted in God, and was forced with extremity of pain to desire ease. He may also mean, as he after saith, 
o job. 7. v. 14.  Thou fearest me with dreams, and astonishest me with visions; but none of these three terroes were the pains of hell, neither did job desperately rage in his mind, but felt violent torments in his flesh, as he himself confesseth. 
p job. 7. ver. 5.  My flesh is clothed with worms, and filthiness of the dust, my skin is rend, and become horrible.  
And touching the terror of God, that word in the sacred Scripture doth not necessarily import the pains of hell, nor the conflict of conscience with doubt or despair of God's favour, but the greatness of his power, and righteousness of his judgements, which we must confess with fear and trembling. 
q Psal. 88  From my youth (saith the Psalmist to God) I suffer thy terrors. Shall we think, that he was all his life long in the pains of hell, or that he lived in perpetual affliction, which continually humbled him, and made him afraid of the mighty hand of God? 
r Prou. 28.  Blessed is the man (saith Solomon) that is always afraid (of God): where he doth not account the pains of hell to be blessed, but he meaneth as the Apostle doth, that we should work our salvation 
s Phil. 2.  with fear and trembling. And so the Saints at the sight of God's presence are afraid, not with an hellish pain, or perfidious fear, but with a quaking and trembling at so great Majesty, knowing that power and 
t job. 25.  terror is with him, though they trust in his mercy.  

u Treat. pa. 46.  The like terrors doth jonas seem to feel in the fishes belly, when he cried to the Lord out of the bottom of hell.] You do well to say it seemeth, for indeed neither have the words any such force, neither had jonas any such meaning. The word Sheol noteth the grave as well as hell as I have else where sufficiently proved; and in this case the Whale's belly may resemble the grave by the very direction of our Saviour. 
x Matth. 12.  As jonas (saith he) was three days and three nights in the Whale's belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the hart of the earth. Where Christ expresseth his burial, and not his descent to hell, by the Whales' belly, in which jonas lay. And jonas himself showeth by his prayer, that he meant the present danger of death, wherein he was, and not the pains of hell, of which he speaketh not. For besides the description of his danger, when he saith, 
y jonas 2.  The floods compassed me about, all thy surges and all thy waves passed over me, the weeds were wrapped about mine head, and I went down to the bottom of the mountains: His prayer declareth his faith in the beginning, middle, and ending thereof. I cried in mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; I said, I am cast out of thy sight. (not to be amongst the living any more) yet will I look again toward thine holy temple. Thou hast brought up my life from the pit, o Lord my God. 
z Ibid. ver. 7.  When my soul fainted, I remembered the Lord, and my prayer came unto thee into thine holy temple. So that jonas sainted with fear of death, but not with the pains of the damned, who I troe do not pray in their pains, much less trust in God, or are heard of him, as jonas was.  

a Trea. pa. 46.  David wanted not the like in his manifold and fearful agonies many times.] Though I exempt neither David, nor any of God's saints here on earth, from 
b 2. Cor. 7.  fears within, and sights without, and troubles on every side, as the Apostle speaketh of himself, yet is there no proof, that David ever suffered the pains of the damned; his words convince no such thing. Sheol which you would now turn to signify hell, though in the words of David applied to Christ by Peter in the acts you stiffly refuse it, standeth indifferent to note the pit provided for the body, which is the grave; or prepared for the soul, which is hell. So that out of a word admitting this double signification, you can never infer which sense you please, but by some other sound and sufficient circumstances. Again, there are but two places, which clearly confess, that David was compassed or overtaken with the snares, dangers, or troubles of Sheol, the 18 Psalm, and the 116. In the first of which it is more than evident, as well by the occasion of the Psalm, as by the variation and conjunction of other words, that David meant the danger of death, which often beset him under the pursuit of Saul, and other his enemies, as the manifest words of holy writ do witness. For this is the inscription of the Psalm. 
c 2. Sam. 22.  David spoke unto the Lord the words of this song in the day, that the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul. So that the snares and ropes of death, which he speaketh of in that Psalm, were apparently the manifold dangers of life, which his enemies, and chiefly Saul put him in. Secondly, the titles, that he there ascribeth unto God, prove that in his persecutions David never doubted of God's goodness towards him, but in all his troubles held that for his chief hope and help. 
d Psal. 18. v. 1.  I will love thee dearly (saith he) o Lord my strength. 
e 2.  The Lord is my Rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer, my God, my Rock, in him will I trust; my shield, the horn of my salvation, and my refuge; 
f 3.  I will call upon the Lord, which is worthy to be praised, so shall I be safe from mine enemies. Thirdly, the words there declaring his dangers, and yet at last the destruction of his enemies, argue as much. For he saith, 
g Ibid. vers. 4.  The ropes of death compassed me, the floods of ungodliness (that is of the ungodly) made me afraid. The 
h 5.  ropes of Sheol environed me, the snares of death overtook me. And so for the persons of his enemies he saith, 
i Ibid. vers. 18.  They prevented me in the day of my trouble, but the Lord was my stay; the Lord rewarded me according to my righteousness, because I kept the ways of the Lord. His severing his enemies from God, and justifying himself, not in the sight of God, but in respect of them, proveth all his intention in that Psalm to be touching his enemies, whom by God's aid and might he 
k vers. 37.  pursued and consumed, wounding them, that they fell under his feet, and whose necks were given him, that he might destroy them that hated him. 
l vers. 41.  They cried unto the Lord (saith he) but there was none to deliver them. This no way concerneth the devil nor his temptations, much less any pains of hell from the immediate hand of God; but most evidently the plots of men that were his enemies, and sought his destruction. The other Psalm maketh the like profession upon the like occasion, and affirmeth, that God heard David, and inclined his ear unto him, when the 
m Psal. 116.  snares of death compassed him, when the straits of Sheol found him out, when troubles and grief took hold on him.  
In other places, where David saith, that his life or Soul was delivered and saved from 
n Psal. 30. &  Sheol, and even from the 
o 86.  lowest Sheol; it is indifferent, which sense we follow, since no doubt he did ascribe the everlasting Salvation of his Soul from Hell unto God's goodness and mercy, no less than he did the preservation of his life from the Grave. And therefore I shall not need to discuss any of those places, which admit both constructions, and yet bring not your hell-paines into this life any whit the sooner. Again when David speaketh of fears, ropes & snares of hell, if it were granted, that David intended as well the inward assaults of Satan to subvert his soul, as the outward perils of his life to shorten his days, it helpeth not your cause. For the gates even of hell, (that is the power thereof) prevail in this life against all that are not of Christ's true church, and often compass and besiege the faithful; and 
p 1. Pet. 5.  the roaring lion, (that) goeth about seeking whom he may devour, is neither idle, nor unable to take hold of men's souls by sundry sins, temptations, deceits, and snares, (if he be not steadfastly resisted by faith) and to make them the children of hell, not by the present suffering thereof, but by preparing, and obliging them to the wrath to come. Of the Scribes and pharisees Christ saith, 
q Matth. 23. vers. 15.  You compass sea and land to make one Proselyte, (that is a novice of your profession) and when he is gotten you make him, filium gehennae, the child of hell double to yourselves. Shall we hence conclude, that the Scribes, and pharisees, and all their Proselytes were here on earth in the true pains of hell, and of the damned, because our Saviour, who can not err, pronounceth them THE CHILDREN OF HELL? or shall we rather accept Christ's own Exposition, where he saith, 
r Ibid ver. 33.  O Serpents, generation of Vipers how should you escape the (future damnation or) judgement of hell? Lastly as the name of God is added figuratively to many things, to signify the beauty and excellency thereof in their kinds, as the 
s Psal. 36.  hills of God, and the 
t 80.  Ceders of God, for fair and goodly hills and trees; so the name of hell is used in detestation for that, which is fearful and intolerable, as the sorrows of hell and straits of hell and such like. Whereby it is evident, that you may dream of David, as you do of others, that he felt in this life the pains of hell or of the damned, but if you set yourself to prove it, you must bring stronger stuff than such words, as besides their divers significations, have many figurative translations and applications, which will not serve you to conclude any thing for your hell pains suffered in this life. These are the mighty proofs, that were unanswered, which indeed I neglected, as proving nothing, and so would yet have done, had not you so mouthly called for an answer, as if the things had been very material, which in truth are weak and faint.  

u Defenc. pag. 119. li. 31.  The confession and behaviour of the reprobate do sundry times in this life testify so much.] What is their confession in things, which they know not? even as much as your assertion. That they are sometimes inwardly and fearfully either tormented by satan, or by their own consciences, I easily admit; but what is the fear of hell either in the elect, or in the reprobate, to the true pains thereof, which the wicked after this life shall feel? that they feel an horror confounding them, I never denied; as also the godly may feel a terror pursuing them; but if you determine this to be all the torment the wicked shall find in hell, you were best take heed of deluding Gods judgements against sin, and playing with fiery words in steed of everlasting fire. It is another manner of torment, that there abideth the damned, than this guilt of conscience, remorse of sin, and a fearful expectation of judgement and fire; in which the wicked sometimes lead their lives with horror and confusion; and yet it is open blasphemy to ascribe any of these horrors or fears of the reprobate unto Christ, since they utterly quench all persuasion of God's favour, love, and patience towards them, which if we affirm of him, we wrap him within their reprobation.  

x Defence pag. 119. li. 32.  The Devils are many times out of the local hell, as when they are in this world. But Devils are never released of hell sorrows. Therefore the true sorrows of hell are even in this world: and then possibly may be inflicted on wicked men as they are on Devils which are sometimes out of the local hell.] We speak of men here living on earth, and you run to Devils ranging in the air, or compassing the earth, for proof of your hell-paines. Which is as much, as if you did plainly confess, you can find no Scripture to prove that mortal men in this life may endure the torments of hell. For the example of Devils inferreth no more the pains of hell to be suffered of men in this life, than the presence of elect Angels here on earth doth prove, that men in this life may enjoy the perfection of God's heavenly joys and glory; since the angels of God whithersoever they go, or wheresoever they are, cannot be deprived or diminished of that inward power and light, blessedness and glory in which they are confirmed for ever. With Angels elect or reprobate men after this life shall have a resemblance and convenience; the faithful (saith Christ) shall be 
a Matth. 22.  as the Angels of God in heaven, and the cursed are cast 
b Matth. 25.  into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: But in this life, except we will wax mad, we must make no equivalence betwixt their estates and ours. So that from the devils condition to man's in this life there is no consequent, more than the imitation and communion of his wickedness in the reprobate, whose children they are because they fulfil his desires, and an expectation and fear of his punishment. Otherwise as the earth is neither heaven nor hell, no more is man's life on earth matchable with the joys of the good, or pains of the bad Angels; which have the place of their abode determined, and assigned them in heaven or in hell, save when they are sent, or loosed by God, to attend the execution of his will. And yet if the place of hell had no greater nor other pains then the devils always carry with them and in them, why should they so much fear to be 
a Luc. 8. v. 31.  sent into the deep, or 
b judae epla. v. 6.  be reserved unto the judgment of the great day, and 
c Peter 2. ca 2.  kept unto damnation? fear they without cause, or are they kept and reserved to no more, nor worse pains than already they feel? That is no reservation, where there is nothing but a continuation of the very same that was before. It is certain therefore, howsoever you presume the contrary, that the place of hell hath greater pains even for the devils, than they feel any here on earth, or before the last day, and howsoever their inward confusion and desperation do horribly pursue them in all places since their fall, yet a more fearful torment abideth them in hell, and especially when the last judgement cometh, which is the set time that shall torment them by addicting and fastening them to eternal and intolerable fire.  
Yet the sorrows of hell are in the world.] By such logic you may prove the pains of hell to be in heaven, and the joys of heaven to be in hell; and so make a full confusion of all things, which well becometh your new found faith. For the Scriptures bear witness, that Satan not only 
c Luc. 10.  fell from heaven, but made his 
d revel. 12.  battle (or rebellion) in heaven, and after his fall 
e job 1.  stood among the children of God, and even with 
f 1. King. 22.  the host of heaven. 
g revel. 12.  There was a battle in heaven, (saith john) Michael and his Angels fought against the Dragon, and the Dragon fought, and his Angels. But they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great Dragon, called the devil, was cast into the earth. Therefore rejoice ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, and of the sea: for the devil is come down unto you with great wrath knowing that his time is short. 
h 1. King. 22.  I saw the Lord sit on his throne, (saith Michaiah the Prophet) and all the host of heaven stood about him on his right hand, and on his left hand. Then there came forth a (lying) spirit, and stood before the Lord, of whom the book of job testifieth, that 
i job 1. v. 6.  when the children of God came, and stood before the Lord, Satan came also among them. Certain it is, that Satan and his angels sinned even in heaven, and were cast out of heaven after their defection from God, carrying always with them, and within them, the loss of their original brightness, and the chains of inward and fearful darkness, whereby they find themselves rejected from God's savour, despoiled of their former light and glory, and reserved for the judgement of the great day, at which they tremble, as well as at the place of their perpetual imprisonment, where their torments are, and shallbe increased, though they be never freed from that horrible confusion, in which they lie. And therefore they scare the place provided for them, and besought Christ neither 
k Luc. 8.  to send them into the deep (and bottomless pit) nor to 
l Matth. 8.  torment them before their time. Neither was there only transgression, reprobation, and confusion in the place of heaven, where the Angels sinned, and whence they were cast, but of the blessed Angels S. john saith, that one of them 
m revel. 20.  came down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand, who took the Dragon, which is the devil, and bound him, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and sealed upon him. And were it doubtful of Angels, how they could retain the measure of their brightness and blessedness in the place of hell; yet hear we David confess of God himself, and of his spirit; If I ascend to heaven, thou art there; if I get down to hell, thou art there. So that the very fountain of all holiness and happiness is in heaven, earth, and hell, and yet the states of these three places are not confounded, because the perfection of all goodness is present in every of them. The goodness and glory of God is not so fastened unto places, that either Paradise or heaven did privilege men or Angels from sin, as heaven did not the devils, nor hell itself can hinder the happiness of the blessed Angels, when they are sent with power from God to execute his pleasure. And yet this doth not confound the distinction of places, or states in heaven or hell, but that heaven is now the place, where the brightness of God's glory is revealed to his Saints, besides their internal and continual vision of God, which maketh them most happy, and never leaveth them, whethersoever they go. And therefore the Angels that sinned, were cast thence, that they should not defile the place of God's presence with their wickedness; and hell is likewise the prepared mansion for the devils, where vengeance from God is powered on them, and greater shall be, when after judgement they shall be closed in perpetual prison, though till that day some of them be suffered to bear rule in the air, and to work in the children of disobedience, for the trial of the saints and farther setting forth os Gods most glorious wisdom, power, and righteousness.  

n Defenc. pag. 119. li. ●…7.  Lastly the true joys of heaven may be out of the local heaven, as when the glorious Angels have been and tarried some while here on earth with men. Yet did they never for a moment want the toys and glory of heaven.] From Angels endued with inward and heavenly light, power, holiness, and happiness, and by grace everlastingly confirmed therein, no argument can be drawn to our weak, sinful, and variable condition; neither do we dispute of God's power, what he can do, but of his will and ordinance, whereby he hath appointed heaven to be his seat, that is the place, where his glory is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and eternal and perfect blessedness bestowed on all the inhabitants thereof, be they men or Angels. And though the Angels, whethersoever they go, or whatsoever they do, retain the clear sight of God, and the perfection of their 〈◊〉 all happiness, yet that is no proof, that we living here in mortal and miserable flesh can have that on earth, which they have. For example, take some parts or consequents of that heavenly joy and bliss which the Angels being here on earth keep immutable, and you shall soon see, how grossly you err in communicating their glory to men yet dwelling in houses of clay. The Angels of God 〈◊〉 here on earth can neither err, sin, nor die; they can feel no necessity, infirmity, nor misery; they need not eat, sleep, nor rest; they are endued with light, that cannot be obscured; with holiness, that cannot be defiled; with joy, that cannot be diminished; with power, that cannot be resisted by men or Devils. Can these things be attributed to mortal men here on earth without open and palpable heresy? Wherefore it is an erroneous and presumptuous inference, that 
o Defence pa. 120. 〈◊〉. 2.  If Angels may enjoy heaven really being in the world, that men here living may do the like.  

p Defenc. pag. 120. 3.  It is possible for God's goodness to communicate some real foretasie thereof unto some blessed men also.] A taste of glory, which neither continueth nor satisfieth, can not be called heaven, which is the perfect and perpetual fullness of all kind of bliss, and want of all kind of misery. S. Peter teacheth us that God 
q 1. Pet. 1.  begetieth (us) into a lively hope, to an inheritance incorruptible, undefiled, and unchangeable, reserved in the heavens for us, who are by the power of God kept by faith unto salvation, ready to le showed in the last time. If the taste of glory, which you talk of, be not immortal, immutable, & undefiled with any defect or misery, it may not be called heaven, nor be said to be the inheritance reserved for us in heaven. And therefore though some blessed men have had a sight of some glory, which you call a taste thereof, as Moses, Esay, Steven, and others; yet that doth not prove them to have been really in the joys of heaven. How often is it written of the Israelites, that they saw the glory of the Lord; and yet they were overthrown in the wilderness? 
r Exodus 24. ver. 16. 〈◊〉 17.  The glory of the Lord (saith Moses) abode upon mount Sinai, and the sight of the glory of the Lord was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountain in the eyes of the children of Israel. So when Aaron offered his first offering for his Priesthood, and blessed the people; 
t Leu t. 9 v. 23  The glory of the Lord appeared to all the people: of whom God saith, 
u Numb. 14. vers. 22.  All these men, which have seen my glory, & my miracles, which I did in Egypt, and in the wilderness, and have tempted me these ten times, certainly they shall not see the land, whereof I swore to their Fathers. When Solomon had builded and consecrated the temple with prayer and sacrifice, 
x 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  The glory of the Lord 〈◊〉 house so that the Priests could not enter into the house of the Lord, because the glory 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lord had filled the Lords house. And when all the children of Israel saw the fire, and the glory of the Lord come down upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the earth upon the pavement, and worshipped, and praised the Lord. I trust the King, the Priests, and the People were not all in the joys of heaven; and yet they all with their eyes saw the glory of God there presented before them; and such as were religious and obedient, saw it to their exceeding joy.  

y Defenc. pag. 120. li. 5.  That God doth indeed reveal some real taste of his heavenly joys to his children even in this life, I have already showed, but am not answered.] You slide from some blessed men to all the children of God; to whom, you affirm, God doth reveal indeed some real taste of his heavenly joys even in this life. What you mean by a real taste, we must learn from your own mouth; by such doubtful phrases, which you may after wrangle about, you use to deliver your doctrine. If you mean joy in the holy Ghost, whiles by hope we expect the promises of God at his determined time, that indeed is common to all the children of God in their measure; but that teacheth a main difference betwixt the things here enjoined, and reserved for us in heaven; and quite crosseth the new heaven, which you would establish. For we learn by the Scriptures, that our 
z Coloss. 3.  Life is hid in Christ, and when Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall we also appear with him in glory. 
a 1 john 3.  Now we are the sons of God, but yet it doth not appear, what we shallbe: and we know, that when he shall appear, we shallbe like him: for we shall see him, as he is. Our knowledge, love, and joy of God and in God, begin here by the preaching of the Gospel, and the working of his spirit; but the Scripture never calleth those the joys of veaven, though they shall there continue, yet so augmented, and accompanied with heavenly brightness and glory, that they shall not be the same, they were. For as our natural understanding and sense, and corporal life and flesh shall not be abolished in heaven, but abide and be glorified, and yet no man is so senseless, as to think or say, the glory of our creation is the glory of our resurrection: so our knowledge, love, and joy, which here are weak, and wanting all perfection, as being mixed with ignorance and error, lust and unlawful desires, fear and grief, and often obscured, and almost overwhelmed with infirmity, iniquity, and misery, no wise man will defend to be the joys of Gods heavenly kingdom where is no want, nor defect of any good, nor fear, nor doubt of any evil inward, or outward; but as God shall then be all in all, so shall we be filled with the sight and fruition of God; our love and joy increasing according to our knowledge, which then shallbe the manifest vision of God face to face, who is the unceasing and unsearchable fountain of all goodness and blessedness.  
The 
b Treatis. pa. 80  proof, on which you stand as yet not answered, is a place of the Apostle to the Corinth's, applied by many men to the preaching of the Gospel, & then it maketh nothing for your purpose; but if it be referred to the joys of heaven, as you would have it, it maketh quite against you. For 
c 1. Cor. 2.  eye hath not seen, saith the Apostle, neither ear hath heard, neither hath man's heart conceived, the things which God hath prepared for them, that love him. If those be the joys of heaven, which the Apostle there meaneth, then is it evident, that men are not capable of them, whiles they are compassed with sin and infirmity, but God hath reserved them in the heavens for us, when we shall come to his presence, though in the mean time 
d 1. 2.  he hath revealed to us by his spirit, that such things are kept in store for us, which then shall appear, that is, be apparently and perfectly bestowed on us, and we everlastingly invested with them. The Revelation which the Apostle here speaketh of, is the revelation of knowledge, whereby these things are promised and assured unto us, not the revelation of glory, whereby we shall see that, which we now hope for; and enjoy that, which we now expect.  
This doctrine, howsoever you would delude it with your real tastes, is plainly delivered in the Scriptures. When Moses besought God to show him his glory, God answered; 
e Exod. 33. ver. 20.  Thou CANST NOT SEE my face, and live; for there shall no man see me, and live. Where God doth not mean, that men shall not see him in heaven, when they come to be 
f Matth. 22.  as the Angels of God, who 
g Mat. 18. v. 10.  always behold the face of God in heaven; his own son hath said, 
h Matt 5.  blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God; and his Apostle likewise, 
i 2. Cor. 13.  Now we see through a glass darkly; then (shall we see) face to face: But he meaneth, that no man living in this mortal flesh can see his face. Otherwise it is the clear resolution of the Scriptures, that we 
k 1. john 3.  shall see him as he is, that is, not by faith, as now we do; nor by some created show of his glory, as Moses, Elias, Esai and other the Prophets and patriarchs did see him for the confirmation of their callings, or consolation of their miseries, but as the Apostle speaketh face to face. Upon these words of S. john, we shall see him as he is, S. Austen learnedly and truly saith. 
l August. in 〈◊〉. johan. Tract. 101.  Ista visio non est huius vitae sed futurae, non temporalis sed aeterna. Hunc totius laboris sui fructum Ecclesia nunc parturit desiderando, tunc paritura cernendo. This vision (of God as he is) is not in this life, but in the life to come; not temporal, but eternal. This fruit of her whole labour the Church now traveleth with by desiring it, but then shall attain by beholding it. Now if the sight of God himself face to face, that is of his substance and glory in plain, full and perfect manner and measure, be the same with the dark and enigmatical beholding his graces and promises by the glass of faith, then have you some reason to say the joys of heaven may be had in this life; but if in the manner, measure, objects and effects of our sight of God in this life and the next there be so great difference, than you deceive both yourself and your Reader to affirm, we have the joys of heaven here in this life, when not only our sin, our ignorance, our misery, mutability and mortality, but even our faith and hope do clearly prove, that we have not that, which we desire, nor as yet enjoy that, which we expect, and believe we shall have. 
m August. epist. 112.  Non corda munda suae substantiae contemplatione fraudavit, cum haec magna & summa merces Deum colentibus & diligentibus promittatur, dicente ipso Domino, quando corporalibus oculis visibiliter apparebat, & invisibilem se contuenaū mundis cordibus promittebat: qui diligit me, diligitur a Patre meo, & ego diligam eum, & ostendam meipsum illi. God hath not defrauded clean hearts of the sight of his substance, since that is promised to those which serve and love God, as the great and chief reward; the Lord saying, when he appeared visible to the eyes of their bodies, & promised himself invisible to be seen of clean hearts; he that loveth me shallbe loved of my Father; and I will love him, and will show mine own self unto him.  

n Defenc. pag. 120 li. 7.  The transfiguration of Christ on the mount declareth, that some real part of heavenly glory may be here on earth, which you yourself somewhere confess clean against yourself.] You would needs tell us in you Treatise, that heaven was some foretaste of the infinite joy prepared for the godly, which you attempted to prove by the Apostles words common to all the children of God, and thereupon concluded; thus you 
o pa. 80. li. 23.  see that as there is heaven in this life in some measure, even so there may be hell. I replied that if you 
p Conclu. pag. 337. 〈◊〉. 34.  affirmed of heaven, as you did of hell, that the VERY SAME JOYS which are in heaven, or EQVALL with them, are here sometimes found (in us living) on earth, it was a wicked error flatly repugning to the truth of God's promises, and to the very nature of our Christian faith and hope. We reasoned not of Christ's manhood, which 
q Colos. 1.  in all things had the pre-eminence above and afore all the sons of God,, but OF THE CODLY, whom you expressly named, and of whom I accordingly replied, and to whom those words of the Apostle cited by you for proof of your purpose do precisely pertain. For of Christ they are most false, that his eye never saw, nor his ear never heard, nor his hart never conceived the things, which God hath prepared for them, that love him. Now when you should prove that mortal men, and no more than men, though the members of Christ, living here on the earth have THE VERY SAME JOYS, which are in heaven, or EQVALL with them; you run to Christ's transfiguration on the mountain, and by that you would infer, that there was heaven even in this life in some measure. But first where can you show, that Christ's transfiguration on the mountain is called heaven in the Scriptures. Next, what derivation can you make from Christ's power, knowledge, and glory, to ours here on earth? Christ's soul had many parts and degrees of heavenly perfection in this life, which ours have not; he was free from sin and error, which abound in us; he was full of truth and grace, which want in us, save what we receive from his fullness; he was the way, the light, and the life, that leadeth, lighteneth and quickeneth every man coming into the world; yea the cross of Christ was the wisdom and power of God. These and many other main differences the Scriptures express betwixt Christ and us; so that from his perfection and pre-eminence to our weakness, wickedness, and wretchedness in this world no comparison can be made, nor any consequent, but that believing in him, loving him, and obeying his commandments, as we are here regenerate and renewed by his spirit, so we shallbe conformed to his image, to reign with him in the next life, if we suffer with him in this life. Christ's transfiguration than is not called heaven in any Scripture, neither had it the perfection or condition of heaven; since heaven is not a transitory taste of mutable joy or glory, but a full and everlasting possession of all power, honour, and bliss communicable from God, and proportionable to the receiver. But if Christ had the real fruition of heaven in his flesh here on earth, how much more in his soul, which was always full of truth and grace, light, and life; and having so real a taste as you speak of, and so immeasurable a fullness of life and grace, as the Scriptures speak; I greatly marvel how you come really to place hell and heaven in one soul together, and specially in the soul of Christ, on which you inflict the very substance of hell pains, when yet the abundance and continuance of heavenly joy could not want in him.  
As for my somewhere confessing clean against myself, that Christ transfigured in the mount tasted of that heavenly glory prepared for him; I see not how that crosseth any thing avouched by me in the 337. and 338. page by you noted. You shall do well when you challenge contrarieties, not to let the report rest on your cracked credit, but produce the words, that your Reader may be judge of both. You are sharp enough to catch hold of any thing, if there were any cause. I called indeed Christ's transfiguration on the mount a taste of that heavenly joy prepared for him, I called it not heaven. A taste of things neither abideth, nor sufficeth, which heaven fully doth; & therefore it is rather a contradiction, than a confession of your conceit. For if you think that Christ's heavenly glory may be defective or mutable, as his transfiguration was, you broach a wicked and impious error. Christ's transfiguration did not exempt him from fear, sorrow, shame and death following, which if you imagine of his glorification in heaven, it is a right hellish impiety. And whatsoever we affirm of Christ touching his pre-eminence above all the children of men as that he was free from sin, and full of grace, and had the perfect knowledge of God's truth and will above men and Angels, I hope you will not derive it to his members here living in the flesh, lest you leave no ground of Christian religion unshaken.  

r Defenc. pag. 120. li. 10.  Only this you have to object touching men, that faith and hope is the evidence of things not seen: neither are our greatest joys the same, nor equal to them which we shall possess in the next world.] I have also to object, that it is not lawful for you nor for any man living to determine of God's kingdom without his warrant, nor to avouch that to be heaven, which the Scriptures do not. Take heed, it is no pastime to play with heaven and hell, as you do, without better aslurance than you have. Know you not what that learned Father saith? 
s Tertullianus de praescrip adversus haereticos.  Nobis nihil ex nostro arbitrio indulgere licet. It is not lawful for us (that be Christians) to devise any thing of our own heads: But 
t Cyril. de fide ad Reginas. li 2.  it is necessary for us (as Cyril saith) to follow the divine Scriptures, and in nothing to depart from their prescription. [
u Defence pag. 120 li. 14.  I answer our reasons before do prove more than only hope in the faithful sometimes.] And I reply that none of your reasons do any way prove the joys of heaven. God's answer to Moses must stop your mouth, and the presumption of all such as you are; 
x Exod. 33.  Thou canst not see my face, for there shall no man see me, and live. Moses saw as much as in this mortal life any man compassed with sin is able to see. He saw posteriora Dei, the back parts of God; for so God said unto him: 
y Exo. 33. v. 22  I will cover thee with mine hand, whiles I pass by. 
z 23.  After I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see mine hinder parts: but my face shalt thou not see. Whereupon S. Austen saith very advisedly: 
a August. de Symbolo a●… Cateth●…menos. li 〈◊〉 ca 3.  Ipsa sunt illa posteriora Dei, Christus Dei. Those hinder parts of God, were the Christ of God. Which exposition Christ confirmeth, when he saith: 
b john 8.  Your Father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it, and was glad. Other shows of God's glory some others had, as Elias in the Cave, the People in the Wilderness, Solomon in his Temple, and john Baptist in jordan, when he saw the Holy Ghost descend like a Dove, and abide on Christ; but none of those was the sight of God's face, which no (mortal) man can see, and live. And that is the true and essential joy of heau●…n, to which all other degrees of perfection and happiness are consequent. 
c August. d●… civitate Dei. li. 16. ●…a. 9  Videns Deum, quod erit in sine praemium omnium sanctorum. The sight of God (saith Austen) shall in the end be the reward of all his saints. Which doctrine he learned from S. Paul and S. john the Apostles of Christ, and they from their Master. 
d 1. Cor. 13.  Then (we shall see him) face to face, and then shall I know, saith S. Paul, even as I am known. When Christ shall appear, saith S. john, 
e 1. john 3.  we shall be like to him, for we shall see him as he is. And so our Saviour: 
f john 14.  I will love him (that loveth me) and show mine own self unto him.  

g Defen●… 〈◊〉. 120. li. 15.  Secondly, it is true the Apostle saith, that here we walk by faith, and live by hope; yet some rare exceptions do not overthrow this general course.] The Scriptures are true with you, save where you list to make exceptions of your doctrine as not contained in them, nor agreeing with them. No man in this life, Christ jesus only excepted, had ever any such vision of God, or possession and fruition of his heavenly kingdom, that he did not walk by faith, and live by hope. Paul was 
h 2. Cor. 12.  taken up into the third heaven, and heard words not lawful (or not possible) for man to utter. Did he then cease to walk by faith, who after and always processed of himself; 
i 1 Cor. 13.  Now I know in part, but then I shall know as I am known? And including himself with the rest; 
k 2. Co●…. 5.  We walk by faith, not by sight: And ●…xactly speaking of himself; 
l Galat. ●….  That I now live in the fl●…sh; I live by the f●…ith of the Son of God; 
m Phil. 3.  that I may know him, and the virtue of his resurrection, and fellowship of his afflictions, not as though I had already attained to it, but I endeavour myself to that which is before, and follow hard towards the mark, for the price of the high calling of God in jesus Christ. If you dare defend, that Paul in Paradise did see God face to face, then may you say, that at that time he walked not by faith, but by sight; but if that be a plain error, than Paul as yet attained not the sight of God's face, nor the crown of righteousness laid up for him, which should be given him by the just judge at that day; and consequently neither faith nor hope ceased in Paul, notwithstanding his being in the third heaven. The like I say of S. john, who 
n Reu●…l. 4.  saw a door open in heaven, and was willed to come up thither, and of all the Saints that either talked with God, or had any manifest revelation of his glory, whiles here they lived.  
The transfiguring of Christ in the mount, was to him not only a joyful hope, but a real taste of his very heaue●…ly joys.] That transfiguration of Christ, whether it were for himself or for the confirmation of his Disciples, the Scriptures do not precisely determine. When a voice came from heaven to Christ in the audience of all the people, Christ answered; This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. S. Peter, who was one of those Disciples that saw him transfigured, writeth thus of it: 
o 2. Pet. 1.  We followed not deceivable fables, but with our eyes we saw his Majesty: for he received of God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. This voice, which was greater glory than his transfiguration, came in respect of them, to confirm them in their faith and obedience to the Son of God then incarnate; and yet to assure their eyes by sight, as well as their ●…ares by that voice, he was transfigured before them: but this transfiguration did not fr●…e Christ from fear, sorrow, shame, violence, and death, which followed; and therefore this was not heaven to him, nor all the glory prepared for him, but an outward show thereof, to establish rather his Disciples, than himself. For his soul within him had here on earth greater glory continually then a transitory change of his body, as namely the personal union with God, which no creature, man, nor Angel, in earth or heaven, had or hath besides him; the fullness of God's spirit resting on him, by which he knew all the counsel and will of God, and all the secrets of men's hearts; power over all flesh, and command over all creatures, which neither Saint nor Angel in heaven hath. In the glory of his body Moses and Steven did here on earth in part communicate with him. 
P 2. Cor. 3. Moses face did shine when he knew it not.  The children of Israel could not behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance, which so glittered, that the children of Israel were afraid to come near him, & he forced to put a vail upon his face, when they spoke with him; and yet Moses 
q Exod. 34. ver. 29.  wist not that the skin of his face shone bright. And likewise 
r Acts 6.  all that sat in the council, where Steven was convented & condemned, looking steadfastly on him saw his face as the face of an Angel, that is, bright and glorious, though Steven knew it not no more than Moses, for aught that the Scripture noteth of him; save that in the end Steven 
s Acts 7.  looking steadfastly into heaven saw the glory of God, and jesus standing at the right hand of God. But the inward and continual glory of Christ's soul here on earth was proper to him, no man nor angel matching him therein. How come you then to attribute heaven unto Christ for the momentary transfiguration of his body, and to neglect and overskippe the constant and continual joy and glory of his soul, which far better deserved the name of heaven, than the change of his body?  

t Defenc. pag. ●…21. li. 2.  We grant the joys of heaven here are nothing equal to those hereafter: only we say the very same in nature may be and are by the effectual working of God's gracious spirit in his elect revealed in some measure and sometime even in this world. Neither is this, as your charity speaketh, any lewd or wicked error.] My charity serveth me, and my duty bindeth me to tell you, that if you, of your own head without the word of God, will make an heaven, or defend that to be heaven, which is imperfect, mutable, and often defiled not with misery and death only, but with weakness and wickedness also, you maintain an evident and pestilent error. The graces of God are heavenly, aswell because they are given from heaven, and direct to heaven, as also they assure men of heaven; but the measure of grace or joy, which we have here on earth, is not the heaven, which we are willed to believe and expect, where our reward is, and where an incorruptible, undefiled, and immutable inheritance is reserved for us, and whence we look for our Saviour.  
Your distinction, that our joy is the very same in nature, though not in measure, which is in heaven, is not only false, but a void and idle refuge. For the joy of heaven 
The name of Nature in the graces of God and joys of heaven is a vain distinction.  is the plain vision of God's face, which bringeth with it a present, perfect, perpetual, and plenary possession of all light, power, love, holiness, and happiness deriveable f●…m God; which in this weak, frail, sinful and wretched life no man hath, nor can have. And therefore though there be the knowledge, love and joy of God, both in this life and in the next; yet the differences are so many, and so great, that no man of any reason or understanding will make the one to be the other for some agreements in some points, whereas in the whole there is not only a substantial difference betwixt them, which is the sight of God's face, but so many parts, effects, and consequents in the one, which are not in the other, that it is more than folly to make the one by pretence of nature to be the same with the other. All joy in nature is the same, if by nature we mean the general definition thereof; for joy is the impression or inward sense of good present, or instant; yea hope is in nature all one with joy, since in hope there is joy, as in fear there is pain, and in hope we rejoice: yet no considerate divine will confound hope and joy together, because they differ but in time, much less make the joys in this life, which are defective, mutable, and permixed with our infirmity, misery, and iniquity, the very same in nature with the joys of heaven, which are abundant, constant, and sincere in all parts and effects, of brightness, mightfulnesse, righteousness, and blessedness, which men can possibly comprehend, when they come to the presence of God. The sight of God by his creatures, by his judgements, by his word, and by himself, is the same in the general nature of knowledge; yet are there as great differences betwixt them, as betwixt darkness and light. The Apostle saith, 
u Rom. 1.  The invisible things of God, that is his eternal power and godhead, are seen by the creation of the world, considered in his works, and that which may be known of God, is manifest in them. Shall we then say, the heathen have the very same knowledge of God by his works, which the Angels in heaven have by the sight of himself? the Devils know him also by his works, by his word, and his judgements. 
x jonas 2.  Thou believest, saith james, That there is one God, thou dost well. The Devils also beleeue●…t, and tremble. Yea they know Christ to be the son of God. 
y Luc. 4.  I know who thou art, said the Devil to Christ, even the holy one of God. Shall we then think that the devils faith is the very same in nature with our Christian faith? of many castaways, which fall away from the grace of God, and receive it in vain, the Apostle saith. 
z Heb. 6.  They were once lightened, and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the holy Ghost, and tasted of the good word of God, and of the powers of the world to come. Shall we avouch these reprobates were in heaven in this life, because they had once the very same graces in nature, which the elect have? If our knowledge do differ in this life and the next, 
Our love and joy do follow our knowledge.  then doth our joy likewise differ. From our knowledge of God riseth our love of God, and our joy in God. For we can neither have love, nor joy of that, which we know not: but as our knowledge increaseth, so doth our love and joy. And therefore when we see God infallibly, as he is, then shall we love him unfeignedly, as we ought, and rejoice in him unspeakably, even as much, as we are capable of, not by the strength of our nature, but by the working of his power. Till then as our knowledge is dark, and in part, so our love is weak, and our joy is faint; but then shall these very things not only rise to an higher degree, and be of another nature, but be replenished with all parts of light, power, and bliss, without which we may defend nothing to be heaven indeed, howsoever we may use figurative speeches to comfort, or encourage the godly. As then work and wages, labour and rest, sowing and reaping, running and obtaining, striving and crowning, abroad and at home, do differ even in nature, so faith and sight, hope and hane, promising, and performing, that is, our state in earth and heaven, doth likewise differ; though it be one and the same thing, which is now promised, believed, and hoped for, and which hereafter shallbe received, attained, and enjoyed.  

a Defenc. pag. 121. li. 7.  Now than if more than hope only even heavenly joys may be on earth, surely it followeth, that likewise more than fear, even hellish pains themselves may be in men on earth also.] If the joys of heaven be not only constant in nature, but perfect in measure, and consist in the sight of God's face, which no man shall see, and live; then certainly the joys of heaven are not in this life imparted to any mortal and sinful man. And though that might be, which yet God expressly denieth shallbe; yet the other is no con●…quent, that the pains of the damned may be likewise in this weak and fainting flesh; because joy is an affection, that preserveth this life; and pain, if it be violent and above our strength, presently severeth the soul from the body. Take an example of this fire, which we see and know. If it be not possible without a miracle from the mighty hand of God for flesh to abide, or life to dure in the pain of burning and flaming fire; how less possible is it for the wicked, on whom God showeth no such wonders, to live and continue in the pains of the damned, whiles they are here fastened to the flesh? 
b Chrysost. ad Theodorum lapsum ep●…st. 5.  Hic quidem non simul contingit vehementia poenarum, & earum diuturnitas. Altera enim cum altera pugnat, propter conditionem corruptibilis huius corporis non ferentisea. In this life (saith chrysostom) the violence of pains, and the continuance thereof cannot stand together. The one fighteth with the other, by reason of this corruptible body, which cannot bear both. And again 
c Idem ad Populum Antioch homil. 49.  Name fire, or sword, or any thing that is more grievous than these, yet these are scant a shadow to those torments.  

d Defenc. pag. 121. li. 16.  And if hell pains in this world may be in any, much rather may they be in Christ, whom God purposely sent through pains and afflictions (the extremest that might be) to be consecrated the Prince of our salvation.] If the true pains of hell might be in others here living, yet in Christ's soul they might not be, since his soul had always greater inward joys of the holy Ghost, which you call heaven, than any man here living on earth could have, except your learning serve you, to put both the joys of heaven and the pains of hell at one and the same time in the soul of Christ. As for your proof, when you show that the pains of hell are sacred and holy, then bring them to consecrate the Prince of our salvation. Till then, refrain this apparent collusion, to make Christ both obedient and astonished, patient and overwhelmed in the pains of hell; and learn that God tried the obedience and patience of his Son by the things which he suffered, and so consecrated or consummated him to be the Prince of our salvation; who must be conformed to his image to suffer with him, not the pains of hell, but the miseries and afflictions of this life, with all obedience to the will and counsel of God, if we will reign with him.  

e Defence pag. 121. li. 14. & 19  If you say yet thus it will follow, that the extremest pains of hell are not to be found in this world, as the highest joys of heaven are not likewise by my confession: I answer I know not, neither mean I to determine the measure and depth of sorrows, which Christ in his Passion suffered.] Either you change minds with the winds, or he that wrote this, wrote not that which went before. In the 52 page of this book li. 25. you prated apace, that Christ suffered a sense of God's wrath EQVALL to hell itself, and ALL THE TORMENTS thereof. And in the 15 page li. 16. you solemnly concluded, whence it must follow, that the pains of Christ's suffering were the same in nature and ALTOGETHER AS SHARP, and as painful as they are in hell itself. Now you know no such thing, nor mean to determine it. It were good you took upon you to know less of your hellish mysteries, till you were more assured of them, or better learned in them. This floating up & down like the waves of the sea, show that either divers men's pens have been in your papers, or that unquiet buzzes are in your own brains, who sometimes can not nor will not, and yet sometimes can and will determine, and pronounce the pains of hell suffered by Christ to be EQVALL to hell and all the torments thereof, and AS SHARP as the sharpest in hell. But your Reader, if he be wise, will see you more constant in your own conceits, before he give any credit to them; and less marvel that men fallen from the truth thus reel to and fro.  

f Defenc. pag. 121. li. 22.  Only grant this plainly, that Christ suffered in his soul the true effects of Gods proper justice and wrath, and we seek no more.] Tell me first, what you mean by the effects of Gods proper justice and wrath, and then from what Scripture you derive it, and you shall soon see what I grant. Only say you no more than you have express warrant of the holy Ghost to believe, and I ask no more. With the name of God's proper wrath you have played a long time, and a number have deceived themselves. For as it is most true, that God would have laid none of these things, which Christ suffered, on his own son, but displeased and angry with our sins; for which he was to satisfy the justice of God, lest our iniquity should seem a matter of dalliance, and easily ●…uerpast: so it is as true, that God neither was, nor could be wroth and offended with the person of his own son, in whom he was well pleased, and for whose sake he was reconciled to us; but that the chastisement of our peace being imposed on him, who for the innocency and excellency of his person was able to tolerate and mitigate the wrath of God provoked by our sins, he made the purgation of them by that kind of satisfaction, which was convenient both to the dignity and safety of his person, and argued apparently the love of God towards him, and his love towards us; whiles he put himself in the gap, by his own smart to avert and appease the just wrath kindled against us. Now what this chastisement was, we may neither of us, nor any man else seek farther, than the holy Ghost hath delivered, that 
g 1. Cor. 15.  Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and 
h Philip 2.  became obedient to the death, even the death of the cross; which is plainly described by the Evangelists, and should not be questioned by any, that is not more wedded to his conceits than to the word of God.  

i Defenc. pag. 121. li. 31.  Though Christ suffered all (which he did suffer) here in this world, ye●… for any thing I can see, there is cause why Christ should be an extraordinary person in the case of suffering for sin in this life, and that therefore as touching sorrow and pain, he might feel more than ever any else hath or could feel for the time.] He was an extraordinary person indeed, as being the true and only Son of God, that is, both God and man in one person, bearing the burden of our sins in his body, but appropriating or accounting the same to the dignity of his person, that by his death he might abolish him that had rule of death, and restore us to life by his humility and obedience, which was so precious and glorious in the sight of God, that he accepted it as a full sacrifice and satisfaction for all our sins, and made him the author of eternali salvation to all that obey him: but that he must be God aswell as man, to be able to suffer the pains of hell & the second death, that is a new device of yours, not converting the Godhead of Christ to the infiniteness of his merits, but abusing it to the infiniteness of his pains, to make place for your newfound hell from the immediate hand of God, where Scripture mentioneth no such thing in the work of our redemption, but plainly and fairly teacheth us, that we are 
k Rom. 5.  reconciled to God by the death of his Son, who 
l Coloss. 1.  by the blood of his Cross procured perfect peace in heaven and in earth, and restored us to the favour of God, through death in the body of his flesh, in which he 
m Rom. 8.  condemned sin, that we might be 
n Heb. 10.  sanctified by the offering of his body once made on the altar of the Crosse. And this doctrine so evidently and frequently delivered by the Holy Ghost in the sacred Scriptures, is so sufficient, that I see no cause, nor need of your hell pains, besides no warrant nor witness of them; except we dream, that the spirit of God did not well understand, or could not aptly express your hellish mysteries, which he always overpasseth with silence, when he speaketh of the purgation of our sins, and our redemption by the precious blood of the Lamb unspotted and undefiled. If therefore it be not lawful in the highest points of faith to add aught to the word of God, nor to think that the spirit of Truth faileth or defecteth in his instruction unto truth, I do not see with what duty to God you and others may be so bold with the Son of God, as to subject his soul to the second death, and to the pains of the damned, when the Scriptures offer us no such part or point of our belief.  

o Defenc. pag. 121. li. 36.  You seem to grant unto Christ all natural sorrow and fear, neither do we seek any more: but you trust the pain of the damned is more than a natural oppressing and afflicting of the heart with human fear and sorrow. For soothe it is not. It is no more than a very natural human fear and sorrow. It proceedeth immediately and principally from God himself, who is the Nature of Natures. Also man's nature is apt to receive such sorrow and fear from him. Thus the very pains of the damned are merely natural.] If you make us many such conclusions, you will prove yourself a mere Natural. For if all things be merely natural to man, that God either bestoweth or inflicteth on man, than grace and glory are merely natural to man, yea heaven itself is as natural to man as hell, and the Holy Ghost himself shall become merely natural to man; for God doth give, and we 
p Rom. 8.  receive the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry Abba Father: yea the second person in Trinity is inseparably joined to man's nature, and as well the ●…ather as the Son 
q 1. joh. 4.  abide and 
r 2. Cor. 6.  dwell in all the Saints. So that the conjunction, communion, and inhabitation of the godhead in man is merely natural unto man by your doctrine; and not only God, but the Devil is as natural to man, and so are those things, which are most unnatural, and most repugnant to man's nature. For man doth, and suffereth them, by and from God, or the Devil. As corruption and incorruption, mortality and immortality, righteousness & unrighteousness, salvation and destruction, eternal life and eternal death, are merely natural to man by your learned discourse, which if you persist to defend, take heed least men doubt, whether frenzy be natural to you or no. Natural I called, not whatsoever is any way incident to men in this life or the next, but that which is general, & necessary to all men, in that they are men. Wherefore I make neither hell, nor heaven natural unto men, since the one God giveth by his power and grace above our nature, for our nature is not to be, as the Angels of God; and in the other by justice and wrath God worketh against our nature. For that fire should everlastingly burn, and flesh everlastingly dure therein, and souls be extremely tormented therewith, are to my understanding far beyond nature, except you be●…eaue God of his almighty power and will, which the Scriptures confess in him, and call him by the name of nature, which is no more, but the condition and operation, that he hath assigned in this world to every creature. If you would needs know, whence I took the word natural, read either Fulgentius or Damascene, and you shall soon see, what they and I mean by nature. 
s Tulgenti●… ad Trasimundum li. tertio.  Because Christ, saith Fulgentius, took upon him to be a true man, ideo cunct as naturae humanae infirmitates ver as quidem, sedvoluntarias sustinuit, therefore he sustained all the infirmities of man's nature, truly but voluntarily, and so Damascene. 
t Damas. li. 3. ca 20.  We confess that Christ undertook all natural and sinless passions. Natural and sinless passions are those, which entered into man's life by the condemnation of (adam's) transgression; as hunger, thirst, weariness, labour, weeping, shunning of death, fear, agony, and such like, which are naturally in all men. So that what is gene●…all and necessary to all men in this life, is natural to man, which I trust neither hell nor heaven is, though by justice or mercy all men after this life shall feel the one, or enjoy the other.  

u Def●…nc pag. 122. li. 6.  Supernatural I grant they are, if we mean this, that they are above our nature's state to bear or to comprehend them.] If your rule be true, that men naturally receive the pains of h●…ll, why should not man's nature as well bear them, or comp●…ehend them, as receive them; except you mean the bearing of them with patience, or comprehending the end of them? what punishment men receiu●…, that they bear. 
x Gala 5.  He that troubleth you, shall be are his condemnation, whosoever he be. And again, 
y Gala 6.  every man shall be●…re his own burden. And so elsewhere. 
z Ephes. 3.  I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord jesus Christ, that he will grant you, that ye may be strengthened by his spirit in the inward man, that ye may be able to COMPREHEND with all Saints, what is the breadth & length, and depth and height, and to know the love of Christ, which passeth (the) knowledge (of man.) And if men shall feel the pains of hell, why shall they not comprehend that, which they feel? They shall apprehend no end nor ease thereof, but feeling is a comprehension of the pain, though it shall be so great, that they cannot endure it with any patience. And yet since you strive for the pains of hell in the soul of Christ, advise you whether Christ shall comprehend them, or want patience in them, and not see an end of them. For if he did suffer them, he did bear them, and comprehend them, except you make him impatient in his pains, and the pains everlasting in him.  

a Defenc. 122. li. 10.  The next is as vain, where you think it not tolerable, that I say Christ in plain words prayed contrary to his Fathers known will; I pray have patience: I say no harm, nor I mean 
Chris●…s prayer was not contrary to Gods known will.  no ill.] A plain pattern of vanity if a man would seek for, he shall need go no farther, than these eight pages spent in excusing your bold and saucy assertion, that is, 
b Trea. pa. 59 li. 4.  It is manifest in plain words, Christ prayed contrary to Gods known will. And the consequents, which you hang to it, are worse than the words themselves; that 
c Ibid. pa. 58. li. 11.  he plainly corrected his will by God's will, and in correcting it was contrary, yea he knew it to be so; and 
d Ibid. pa. 59 li. 6.  unless it were in astonishment, 
e Ibid. pa. 59 li. 8.  he could not have wanted sin. For none of all these positions have any truth in them, or proof for them, besides your wilful mistaking and wresting the Scripture. The wo●…ds of our Saviour, as I have showed before, have four expositions with the ancient Fathers, every one confirming, that there was no contradiction indeed between the will of God & the prayer of Christ. The first that Christ prayed upon a condition, if man might possibly be otherwise saved, and the Jews not perish by his passion, which Origen, jerom & Bede do follow. They put a special Emphasis in the words, THIS CUP, which should be the utter desolation and rejection of the jews. The next limiteth the word PASS to POSSIBLE, as if Christ had said, let this cup pass from me, as much as is possible; by which he desireth a moderation of the punishment provoked by our sins, and yet referr●…th it to his Fathers will. This Euthymius embraceth. A third is, that Christ confessed a natural dislike of death and pain in the weakness of his flesh, though his spirit did readily submit itself to the divine will of his Father, and of himself, even touching the death of the cross. This sense Chysostome, Damascene and others do bring. The fourth, that Christ here assumed and declared the weakness of his members, who being no more than men, should fear death; but he by suffering that affection to rise in himself, and repressing it, did by his grace cure it in his, when, and as he seeth time and cause. This Hilary, Cyrill, and Austen do like. So that Christ's words being every way free from plain and manifest contradicting Gods known will, as you would make them to advance your hell pains by them, who but you would ship out such wine-shaken stuff, that Christ 
f Treat. pa. 53. li. 32.  was astonished, forgetful, and all confounded in his whole humanity both in all the powers of his soul, and senses of his body, that he knew not what he said, or did; or else he could not have wanted sin?  

g Defenc. pa●…. 122. li 19  Never scoff at it, nor reproach it, nor wrest it. We ought not to be ashamed to acknowledge the weakness of human nature in Christ; which Christ was not ashamed of for our sakes to vndergo●….] It is you that are ashamed of human weakness in the flesh of Christ; and therefore you devise the torments of devils in the soul of Christ, and the pains of the damned, because you think it a shame for him, to have his flesh afraid of pain and death. Right yourself therefore by your own rule, and then you may well be ashamed of these monsters devised by you, whiles you shun to acknowledge man's weakness voluntarily received in the flesh of Christ, as well to prove the truth of his own manhood, as the comfort and cure the infirmity of our nature. But why do you not first prove it, and after presume it? this pretending it to be plain, before any such thing doth appear, is no more but dreaming of a noble conquest, when you have received a shameful foil.  

h Defenc. pag. 122. li. 22. &.  Did not Christ in plain words pray, that if it were possible this hour might pass from him, and before, save me ●…rom this hour? doth he not then pray in plain words contrary to God's know●… ill?] Who but a man confounded in all the powers of his sense and vnd●…rstanding, having so many expositions brought him out of learned and ancient 
Christ prayed with condition and reservation of Gods will.  Fathers, would in a rage rei●…ct them all without any regard, and leaning only to the wilfuln●…sse of h●…s own imagination, conclude with such confidence his own untoward conceits to be the true meaning of the sacred Scriptures? If Fathers be but sathers with you, do you not here three Evangelists, Matthew, Mark and Luke evidently & exquisitely witness, that Christ prayed with reservation and submission to the will of God? how then prayed he contrary to the known will of God? [
i Treatis pa. 85. li. 12.  In correcting it, it was contrary: yea and he knew it to be so.] It is a sign you swell with no small liking of yourself, that little care to cross all writers old and new, without any cause, but only ●…or the good opinion you have of yourself. M. Beza, from whom you would seem to borrow some points of your hell pains, though you leave him, when you list, as not worthy to teach you any thing, directly and tru●…ly refureth your error. 
k Beza in annot.  Obs●…ruandum est hac particula non corrigi superiorem pe●…ionem, (ita enim fuisset in Christo vitium) sed explicari, qua conditione id peteret. We must mark by this speech, (yet not as I will) the former prayer is not CORRECTED, (for so it h●… been a fault in Christ) but it is declared with what condition Christ desired it. So that your correcting Christ's prayer by the plain confession of M. Beza chargeth Christ with corruption of sin, yea and Christ's knowing it so to be, as you affirm, that is, to be contrary to God's will, noteth a manifest and advised contradiction in Christ to the will of God his Father; which whether it be sin or no, let any that is but half a divine i●…dge. S. john, you say, reporteth Christ to have said absolutely, 
l john 12.  Father save me from this hour.] First Hilari●…s rule is of necessity to be retained in expounding the Scriptures. 
m Hilarius de trinitate li. 10.  Prestant sibi m●…tuam evangelia plenitudinem; dum alia ex aliis, quia omnia unius spiritus predicatio sunt, intelliguntur. The Gospels make up each others fullness, whiles o●…e is understood by another; all being the preaching of one spirit. Since than it is expressed in three Evangelists, that Christ's prayer, for avoiding this cup and this hour, was conditional; his words in S. john to the like purpose, must have the like construction, though they do not exactly specify so much. Again your own confession importeth no less, where you say; 
n Defenc. pag. 126. li. 7.  who knoweth not, that all good prayers and d●…sires for temporal things must be conditional, that is with reservation of Gods will always implied, though not always expressed? Christ pra●…ers then, to escape this hour, must have that condition understood, though it be not mentioned in the words, since his prayers were not only good, but hea●…d of God, and the ground of all our prayers in the time of trouble. Thirdly, the best Greek expositors that we have, as Chrysostom, Epiphanius, and Theophylact, have conceived the force and order of Christ's speech to be such, as if that part, which you avouch to be repugnant to the rest, were excluded and denied by the words antecedent and consequent, and so to have rather the power of a negation, than an affirmation. Lastly, many new writers acknowledge the words, though they were affirmative, may receive an other sense: as if Christ did not desire to be free from suffering, but to be kept from fainting, under the burden of his passion. So Bucer. 
o Bucerus in johan. ca 12.  Patrem Christus or avit, ut liberaret eum à supplicio, non ne illud perferret, sed ut forti●…r perferret. Christ besought his Father to save him from (the hour of) punishment, not that he might not suffer it, but that he might suffer it patiently, (or without fainting.) So Aretius. 
p Aretius' in johan. ca 12.  There may be an other sense of this place, which is, that Christ doth not entreat to escape death, but prayeth his Father's aid against the horror thereof. So that to be saved from this hour, is to be preserved in it, that it prevailed not against him. The words then of our Saviour in S. john admitting so many limitations and constructions, who but a wilful neglecter of all learning and truth, would so peremptorily by pretence of them conclude, that manifestly in plain words, Christ prayed contrary to Gods known will?  

q Defenc. pag. 122. li. 22.  If this could not be possible in Christ's manhood without sin, than I were a wretch to affirm so much of him; especially still to affirm it. But if it be possible by any means, through the mere instinct of man's nature (as it is God's creature and free from all sin) thus to speak and to wish suddenly, and suddenly to control it again, as Christ did, then what mind bear you, and how may we judge of this your striving, which is not to clear Christ from all sin in his agony?] A goodly clearing from sin you make in Christ, that in a maze he prayed he knew not what. You suddenly take Christ's memory from him, and suddenly restore it again with the twinkling of an eye; and thus you play with Christ's sense and memory, as men do with tennis balls. But understand you sir, howsoever you please yourself with amazing Christ after this manner, the Scriptures allow no such thing, nor any circumstances of the text, where the words seem most plainly repugnant as you say, to Gods known will, as in the 12. of john. Read that Chapter who will, where are no words nor signs of any maze, but a perpetual course of most excellen●… speech; in the midst whereof he confessed, that his soul was (then) troubled with the remembrance of his death. And as doubting what to desire, through the dislike that man's nature in him had of death, he yet resolveth to desire not his own safety from death, but the increase of his Father's glory by his death. What sign or proof of amazement is in this? why take you this pestilent liberty to put Christ into a sudden maze, when pleaseth you; and as suddenly, lest all the world should cry shame on you, to clear him from it, though the cause of his maze, if there were any, still continued? you say, if it were not by some means possible, you were a wretch to affirm it: but you must not devise what means please you, to wave the Son of God to and fro with sudden and often desires, which needed correcting and controlling, and then to warfe them with want of memory. My striving is not against any words in the text, or any thing that may be justly deduced from the Scriptures, but against your forgetful and faithless prayers, which you purposely impute to Christ, because you would hem him either within sin, or astonishment; and then excuse him with loss of sense, and lack of memory. This is the main plot, that here you undertake, not by proving, that it was so; but by pronouncing, that you will have it so; and therefore you still answer in steed of arguing, knowing that your proofs be as weak, as your projects strong. For first you 
r Defenc. pag. 122. li. 37.  answer, Christ knew (his Father's will) but at this instant he thought not on it. And why thought he not on it? you 
s pa. 123. li. ●….  answer again, his pains and sorrows were so great, and so infinite, that it was no marvel he thought not on it: but fall once to proving, and you shall see how much you fail of your purpose.  

t Defenc. pag. 123. li. 9  First he was now astonished, as the text saith, and you acknowledge that he might be.] First in the twelfth of john, where you make Christ's prayer more absolute than in any other place, there is no mention nor signification of any astonishment; but on the contrary, the tenor of Christ's speech and doctrine is not only coherent, but full of eminent power and grace. Again, the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which you take hold on, signifieth either admiration alone, as I have formerly showed, or fear mixed with some wondering. Phavorinus saith: 
u Phavor. Dictionarium in verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; Thambe●…sa, properly is to fear and fly at the sight of God. So that the word neither in the Scriptures, nor in any Grammar, signifieth your hellish astonishment for intolerable pains and torments, but suddenly to stand defixed, or somewhat afraid at an unwonted sight. Thirdly, the circumstances and consequents in the text, declare that Christ's astonishment or fear was not such, that it took from him either sense or memory. For where all vehement amazing for the time depriveth a man of motion, sense, and speech, Christ felt utterly none of these. The very place of S. Mark, which you quote for the word ekthamb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thai, proveth the rest which I affirm. For Christ after he 
x Matth. 14.  began (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) to be afraid, presently said unto his three disciples, My soul is very heavy unto death: tarry here and watch. So he went forward a little, and fell down on the ground, and prayed, that if it were possible, that hour might pass from him. Then he came, and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, Couldst not thou watch one hour? Watch ye, and pray, that ye enter not into temptation. What signs or words are here of astonishment continuing? astonishment stoppeth speech and motion, as well as sense. 
y Rhetoricorum ad Her●…nnium li. 4.  Omnes stupidi timore obmutuerunt; They all amazed with fear were mute, saith the heathen Orator. And so the Poet; 
z Plautus in Epidi●…o.  Quid stas stupida? quid taces? Thou amazed thing, why flandest thou still? why art thou tongue-tied? Yea Galen himself giveth evident testimony, that men amazed with fear, neither speak nor do any thing, but stand still with their eyes open: 
a Galenus in Aphorismos Hippocratis. li. 7. apho. 14.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Amazedness is, when men neither speak nor do any thing, but abide silent with their eyes open, like to men astonished with fear. So that if Christ were astonished with fear or amazed, he could neither have done nor said any of those things which the Gospel reporteth he did and said: and therefore unless you can alter the rules of nature, as you do of Scripture, Christ was in no such astonishment as you dream of; neither did his memory fail him in speaking those words: for then how could he not have remem●…red that they were spoken amiss, and needed correction as you conceive them.  
Yourself acknowledge that he might be.] It helpeth not you, I said, if we should so interpret the word which S. Mark useth, that Christ began to be afraid, or somewhat astonished: for if 
b In verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to admire some (sudden or strange) sight, as Phanorinus avoucheth, than might our Saviour approaching God's presence now sitting in judgement to redeem the world, easily find cause both of admiration and fear, and yet be free and far from suffering your hell pains. And where you say my words are utterly untrue, that 
c Defenc. pag. 123. li. 13.  many things might astonish our Saviour for the time, besides such pains; they are truer than any thing you have yet spoken, or will speak of his astonishment. For whether we respect the sight of his eyes, or the apprehension of his mind, he might either way behold many things worthy of that fear or astonishment which the Scripture describeth in him. 
d Zan●…hius de Incar Christi li. 2. quaest. 11. Thesi 2 de scientia Christi. pa. 302.  If with the eyes of his body cleared with divine light, Christ being in earth, saith Zanchius, could see the things in heaven; and being in heaven, doth see what he will in earth, as he saw and heard Steven saying, Lord jesus receive my spirit; he saw and spoke to Paul pursuing him in his Church, how much more can (and could) the soul of Christ see particular things in the word, which is his Godhead? So that either the eyes of Christ, or the mind of Christ might behold or consider the glory of God's judgement, whereof he spoke when he said, 
e john 12.  Now (even at hand) is the judgement of this world; or the greatness of man's sin, or power of God's wrath, or the vengeance deserved, from which he was to ransom man, and for which he was to satisfy God; all these things might in more likelihood in some sort astonish the human soul of Christ, than the pains of the damned presently then inflicted on him with God's immediate hand, as you imagine, but are no way able to prove, save by your own conceit. And therefore your second observation, that these infinite incomprehensible and incomparable pains, which you mean, astonished, is but the froth of your fancy; for you shall never be able to justify any such thing by the text or history of the Evangelists.  

f Defence p●…g. 123. li. 20.  Thirdly add hereunto that which you rightly grant, that it is true, a mighty fear may so affect a man for the time, that it shall hinder the senses from recovering themselves, and stop the faculties from informing one another. Likewise afterward, astonishment draweth the mind so wholly to think on some special thing above our reach, that during the time we turn not ourselves to any other cogitation.] You take this to be true that I said, and so do I, but this utterly subverted your former position, which now you recant, that 
g Treat. pa. 53. li. 32.  Christ could not but be astonished, forgetful, and all confounded in his whole humanity, bot●… in all the powers of his soul, and senses of his body. If Christ according to your desperate doctrine were all confounded in his whole humanity, were not his understanding and memory confounded aswell as other parts of his human nature? If he were all confounded in all powers of his soul, and senses of his body, as your wicked error imagineth, are not understanding and memory powers of the soul? and did not I charge you justly and truly with casting Christ into an infernal confusion for the time, since in hell itself they can be no more but all confounded in their whole manhoods, both in all the powers of their souls, and senses of their body? Tell what confusion in hell is, or can be more, than all in all, and I will yield, I did you wrong. If you cannot, then bethink yourself how lewdly and loosely you adventured, all to confound Christ in all the powers of his soul and senses of his body; in which case whether you leave sense, memory or understanding unconfounded in Chest, I leave to the censure of the discreet Reader.  

h Defenc. pag. 124. li. 1.  I say, as you say, he now on the sudden might turn neither sense nor memory to any other object, and so not think on any thing else, but only on this terrible and mighty sorrow and fear. Your helpers have advised you to recall that forgetfulness, and all confusion in all the powers of Christ's soul, & senses of his body, which before you sounded out with such wain loads of words, as was marvelous; and now you be come to say, as I say, that there was no confusion in the powers of Christ's soul, nor in the senses of his body, but an intenti●…e cogitation on some fearful or sorrowful thing, which for the time so detained the powers of the soul, as on a matter most importing and nearest touching the state of himself either in soul or in body, that he did convert them to no other object. If you say thus with me, then must you say farther with me, that as soon as Christ began to use speech, or convert his cogitation to prayer, this astonishment was eased; and howsoever fear was not altogether dispelled, yet he could no longer be said to be amazed, or to seek what to do. For prayer to God without the mind intending, and attending it, is sin; which might not be in Christ: and that Christ did attend his prayers, is most evident. For he both added a condition to them, and presently declared, what he meant by that condition, to wit, that he desired the bitterness of this cup to pass, as much as God's gracious will towards him should like, and not as the sense of man's nature in him would affect. So that here is nothing in Christ's prayer arguing any forgetfulness, or not remembering, but an evident confirmation rather of that which you would so feign deny or avoid if you could tell how; that Christ did religiously and carefully convert his cogitations in his prayers, both to deprecate his Father's wrath as far as might be, and yet to give full assent to his Fathers wil And therefore the difference, which Origen, jerom, Bede, and others make betw●…ene the beginning, and continuing of these affections of fear and sorrow in Christ, howsoever with a false show you impugn it, hath better ground in it, than any thing you say against it.  

i Defenc. pag. 124. li. 8.  Nature's very instinct is in such dolours to wish and desire ease: and the more vehemently it is pinched, the more earn●…stly it desireth: and this is God's own gift and workmanship in nature, and simply thus to desire is in this respect truly to be reckoned Gods own express will.] Have you now found, that Christ did not manifestly in plain words pray contrary to his Fathers known will; But that expressing the sense of man's nature in himself, as touching the pains, which should assault him on the Cross, he desired that cup, that is, the sharpness of that pain might pass, as much as was possible to stand with God's good pleasure. And yet lest he should seem in nature more to respect his own ●…inart, than his Father's will, he presently declareth himself, that he meant no farther to be eased, then might stand with God's counsel and will foredetermining these things. So that without your hell pains then inflicted on Christ's soul by God's immediate hand, and without your confused and forgetful astonishment, the prayers of our Saviour in the Garden did both answer God's ordinance in the frame of our flesh, which is not brass, as job speaketh, and yet prefer the will of God for the conservation of his justice, before the liking of his sense, or desire of his nature. Which if you acknowledge, then are your assertions false and wicked, that Christ in plain words prayed contrary to Gods known will and this could not have wanted sin; had he not been astonished, when he so prayed. For the prayers are facred and sound without any maze or oblivion of his Father's will, and his own purpose; but rather expressly remembering both, and preferring that, which indeed should be preferred, when and as it ought.  

k Defenc. pag. 124 li. 22.  It was contrary in the outward words, and in the particular affection of his mind now wanting this remembrance, but it was fully and wholly according to God's wil●… in the general disposition of his mind and whole man.] You would feign uphold a contrariety to Gods will in the prai●…rs of Christ, and though they be neither in truth nor in sense repugnant to Gods will, yet you say, there is a repugnancy in the particular affection of his mind, As appeareth by his adding, Not my will, but thy will be done. Howbeit you heard before out of Zanchius a very learned and very sufficient Divine, 
l Zambius de tri●…us El●…him part 2. li. 3. ca 9 R●…sponsio. 2.  Quare falsum omnino est, in Christo diversam voluntatem a Patris fuisse. It is utterly false, that there was in Christ a will divers from his Fathers will. The natural dislike, that man hath of pain and death, which is the rule of God's creation, Christ calleth his will, because it was the weakness of man's flesh in him, as he forewarned, when he said, The spirit is prompt, but the flesh is weak, to abide the pain and horror of death; but this natural affection when he had confessed to be in himself, both to show himself to be a true man, and naturally affected as we are, and also to foreshow, that his death should be very painful and grievous unto him, he wholly and fully submitted it to his father's will, which indeed was his will and desire, (even as he was man) as well as his Fathers. His own words are, 
m Luc. 22.  Desiring I have desired (that is, I have earnestly desired) to eat this Pass●…ouer with you before I suffer. And again, 
n Luc. 12.  I must be baptized with a baptism; and how am I grieved till it be ended? He desired the time and f●…uit of his death; he might not desire death in itself, because it was not only the dissolution of nature, but the touch of God's wrath against the sin of man, and therefore no way to be desired, but in regard of consequent effects. Neither was there any contrariety in the particular affection of Christ's mind to Gods will, as you avouch. It is a dangerous device of yours to make Christ's will agreeable to Gods in the general disposition of his mind, but repugnant in his particular affection; which you would excuse with a greater error of Now wanting this remembrance; But God's will was as Christ's was, that Christ in his human nature should have an utter dislike and horror of death, which yet for the love of man, and obedience to God, he should submit to that will of God, whereby he would have the punishment of our sins tedious and gr●…euous to the Redeemer, lest it should seem a sport to ransom us from the wrath of God. Both these wills were in God the Father, and the sense of the one, and the submission to the other, in the human nature of Christ; so that in either part Christ's will was conformable to the will of God, though his natural dislike of death and pain yielded and submitted itself to the will of God's justice, by which he required and exacted the punishment of our sin in the manhood of Christ.  

o Defenc. pa●…. 124. li. 30  If you abhor this ●…n me, yet see what Chrysostom taught. These words (NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS thou WILL'T,) do signify two wills, saith he, one of the Father, another of the Son, contrary one to the other.] Think you, as Chrysostom doth, and then you shall easily be suffered to speak, as Chrysostom speaketh. For as power and weakness are contrary, so were the two wills in Christ, declaring his two natures; the one despising and conquering death, which was his divine will answeareable to his Fathers; the other fearing & shunning death, which showed him to be a true man. As then Christ had two contrary natures, yet knit and united in one person; so had he two contrary wills touching death, yet both agreeing and concurring in one end. And so much Chrysostom would have taught you, if you had read on the very same place, which you quote for your error. 
p Johan Chrysostomus in ●…adem ●…ratione apud Theod●…retum Dialogo 3.  If this were spoken, saith he, of Christ's divinity, than were it a contradiction indeed, and many absurdities would thence follow; but if it were spoken of his flesh, than was there a good reason for those words, and nothing in them that might ius●…ly be blamed. For that the flesh would not willingly die, this is not to be condemned, it is proper to man's nature. And Christ showed (in himself) all the properties of man's nature, without sin, and that very abundantly, to stop the mouths of Heretics. When then he saith, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me, and not as I will, but as thou wilt; he declareth nothing else, but that he was compassed with true flesh, which feared death. For to fear and shun death, and to be astonished (or perplexed) therewith, is proper to flesh. Now therefore (that is at this time, when he spoke these words) he permitted his fl●…sh alone, and naked to her proper action, that showing the infirmity thereof he might confirm the truth of (his human) nature; and sometimes he covereth it, because he was not a bare man. Grant you by these words, that Christ declared nothing else, but that he was a true man, and naturally feared and shunned death, which is the dissolution of nature, as we do, and you shall have leave to call this affection different or repugnant in power and strength, but not in purpose or petition, to the will of his divine nature.  

q Defence pag. 124. li. 33.  I grant M. Beza useth some terms differing from ours, yet his sense is the self same with ours. He said Christ corrected not his speech, as if he had before spoken amiss; I say, he did correct his speech, making it being good to be better.] You can not, by your leave, thus wind out from your lewd assertion, that Christ's prayer could not have wanted sin, had he been in perfect remembrance without astonishment. If Christ's prayer were good without the latter addition, which you call a correction; ergo it was not repugnant to the known will of God, much less sin in itself, but that Christ now wanted remembrance by reason of his infinite and incomprehensible pains. You would feign daub up these dangerous conceits and conclusions, but your mortar is untempered. If Christ's desire were good, as now you grant, before this correction (and how could any thing be but good, which proceeded from him?) than which way inferred you your hell pains out of that prayer? where is the ground of your conclusion, that Christ sinned in that prayer, if he were not astonished, because it was in plain words contrary to Gods known will? Is any thing good, that is contrary to Gods known will? feign you would, and yet you know not how to keep this gear upright.  

r Defenc. pag. 125. li. 7.  Neither is this particular contrariety to Gods will any sin, namely, when by Gods own ordinance we know not what Gods special will is, so that we always remain apt and ready there unto when we know it.] Is this all the GOODNESS you grant in the former part of Christ's prayer, that it was no sin, because Christ wanted remembrance? doth chrysostom teach you any such doctrine? It may be pardoned by your rule for want of memory; but that is no commendation of any goodness in it. And yet if we venture to pray without faith, it is sin so to tempt God. Neither can we be excused by want of judgement or memory; we may omit somewhat for want of understanding, but if we commit aught upon opinion or credulity that it is good and lawful for us, when indeed it is not so, that doth not excuse our ignorance or forgetfulness. It is the less sin, but sin it is, and far from goodness. If therefore this be all the goodness you ascribe to Christ's prayer, you expressly contradict chrysostom, who maketh it proper and lawful for man's nature in the best remembrance to dislike and shun death, so we still submit ourselves to Gods will, as Christ did, not to like that which is against nature, but patiently to suffer that which is according to Gods will and counsel towards us.  

s Defenc. pag. 125. li.  So did David desire the life of his child, it was contrary to Gods will one way, as the event showed; for the child died: yet he prayed well and rightly according to Gods will in nature's affection, seeing he knew not God's secret will to the contrary,] David had p●…etie and charity to lead him to pray for his child's life, though the Prophet denounced unto him that the child should die. God's threats do differ from his judgements in this, that his judgements are irrevocable when they are once executed, and his wrath is placable, when he threateneth; since he never particularly threateneth, but when we are impenitent. God willed jonas to preach, that after 
t jonah. 3.  forty days Nineveh should be overthrown; and yet was God neither inconstant in his will, nor the Prophet false in his message, when upon repentance God spared them. The King's Proclamation was good divinity: 
* Ibidem.  Let every man turn from his evil way, and who can tell, whether God will turn from his fierce wrath, that we perish not? So said David: 
u 2. Sam. 12.  Who can tell (whether) God will have mercy on me, that the child may live? God's secret will as we cannot know, so do we not resist, so long as we seek by repentance to prevent or avert his plagues: but what is this to Christ's case? was he ignorant of Gods will, which he so often foretold his Disciples; what, where, and of whom he should suffer, as also the cause, why; 
x Matth. 20.  to give his life a redemption for many?  

y Defenc. pag. 125. li. 16.  Christ's sudden not remembering Gods particular will, (by reason of his fearful astonishment) was all one, as if he had not know●…n it at all.] It is apparently false, that Christ did not remember Gods particular will touching his death; for he added if it were possible, 
Christ's prayer not repug●…ant to the will of God.  before his prayer; and st●…ll submitted his will to the will of God, which if he had not remembered, he could not have done. The fearful astonishment of which you dream, as if it still continued even in his prayers, is a needless in●…ention of such, as seek to make some pretence for their hell pains. Christ's prayers were earnest, and often repeated, and as the Apostle noteth, he was heard in them, and therefore they were not repugnant to the will of God; howsoever he desired the cup, that is, the sharpness thereof to be mitigated, and proportioned to his strength and patience, which accordingly God his Father performed.  

z Defenc. pag. 125. li. 25.  You say I am captious against Christ in not supplying one Evangelist with another. For so Christ's desire will appear to be but conditional, therefore not contrary to God's will; yes nevertheless as touching the desire itself, and his particular present inclination compared to God's particular determination herein.] If Christ's prayer in the garden were heard, as the Apostle saith it was, then is it evident it was no way repugnant to the will of God: for God doth not use to grant petitions made contrary to his will. And then we must so interpret the sense of Christ's prayer, that it might take effect in his sufferings, as I think it did. And though we should suppose, it took not effect, yet since he himself did so condition his desire of nature, that he subjecteth it to the will of God; which way can you prove it contrary to Gods known will? Christ's particular present inclination compared to God's particular determination herein, you say, was contrary to it.] I deny that utterly. For Christ's particular and present inclination of man's nature to dislike pain and death was Gods general ordinance in all men, and Gods special will in the manhood of Christ at that instant: and Christ's determination was the same with Gods, since he submitted the one to the other, and resolved, as we find in his prayer, with obedience willingly to undergo that shameful and painful death, which Gods justice purposed for the sins of men. Yea God hath not only ordained, that the Cross should be grievous unto us, as it was to the manhood of Christ, but he misliketh, when it is otherwise; that is, if we despise his correction, because it is made tolerable by his fatherly goodness respecting our weakness. 
a jerem. 5.  Thou hast stricken them, but they have not sorrowed, saith the Prophet; meaning they despised the hand of God, because it was tempered with mercy, and plagued them not unto destruction. Then is it Gods will, that affliction should grieve us, and he hath not only so created us, but it is his purpose, when he smiteth to have us feel it, and to have us mourn under the Cross, but yet without distrust of his goodness, or dislike of his counsel, though it pinch us never so near in the sense of our nature. What contrariety then to God's will had Christ's inclination of nature shunning death, and the sharpness thereof, so far as was possible, and did stand with God's pleasure; since his resolution was the same with God's will, most obediently to suffer it, though it seemed never so sharp to his flesh, which was Gods will it should? as for balaam's bad desire, I leave it to you to comment thereon at your leisure; his wicked avarice secretly seeking after gain, though pretending God's name, ought not in Christ's case to be so much as mentioned.  

b Defenc. pag. 125. li. 2.  When we perfectly know and remember Gods certain will, every light affection and sudden wishing to the contrary, howsoever conditionally, is no less than manifest sin ●…inst God.] Is it sin in Martyrs, that their flesh by sense of nature endureth not quietly the rage of fire without fear and grief, or is it rather a godly conflict betwixt the ●…eadinesse of the spirit, and the weakness of the flesh, to feel the one, and to follow the other in regard of duty to God and his blessed will, which hath provided not pleasure, but pain to make trial of patience? In desires and delights the sense of the flesh is to be declined, lest it bait the mind, and wax unruly; but in fear and pain God's sacred will is, that the flesh should be flesh, and not senseless, nor careless, that the spirit may be proved, and the 
c 1. Pet. 1.  trial of our faith in affliction, being much more pretio●… than gold, may be found to the praise of God. It is therefore no sin, 
c 1. Pet. 1.  for a season (if need require) to be in heaviness through manifold temptations: Neither did Christ tell his Disciples, that they should not weep, lament, nor sorrow in their miseries, since nothing could befall them without the direct and express will of God, with whom the 
d Matth. 10.  hairs of (their) heads are numbered; But he promis●…th, their 
e john 16.  sorrow shallbe turned to joy: Wherefore Christ's present and particular inclination in nature to dislike the bitterness of pain and death, was not contrary to God's disposition, but answeareable to it; so long as in obedience he always referred himself to the will of God, and his petition being conditional, so far as might stand with God's good will, was no way touched with any show of sin, much less in plain words repugnant to Gods known will, though our Saviour were in perfect remembrance, as the Scripture declareth he was, and advisedly considered, and regarded the will of God in every part of his prayer.  

f Defenc. pag. 126. li. 11.  The very nature of all conditional desires is such, that it includeth evermore a possibility (at least) of being contrary to his will, whom we desire.] This general observation of yours is not true, and though it were, it maketh nothing to this purpose. The Saints have often prayed in full persuasion of faith yet with a condition, not as doubting, but as humbling themselves in his presence, before whom or of whom they spoke. When God had said to jacob: 
g Genes. 28.  Lo I am with thee, and will keep thee, whither soever thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; jacob vowed, saying; if God will be with me, and will keep me in the journey, which I go, so that I come again into my father's house in safety, then shall the Lord be my God. Shall we say, because God addeth a conditional to his vow, that either he doubted of Gods promise made unto him that very night, or that it was possible to be contrary to Gods will? I trust not. So Moses confessed to God; 
h Exod. 33.  See, thou hast said unto me, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found favour in my sight: Now therefore I pray thee, if I have found favour in thy sight, show me now thy way, that I may know thee. Was Moses unfaithful to the mouth of God, because he maketh that a condition, which God uttered as an affirmative; or was there any possibility of the contrary to that which God had once pronounced? Likewise the Apostles under conditions express most certain assertions; as Paul: 
i 2. Thes●…. 1.  If it be a just thing with God to recompense trouble to them which trouble you; and to you which are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord jesus sh●…ll show himself from heaven; Meaning, there can be no doubt, but it is just, though he made it conditional. But we need not this rule for the prayers of Christ in the garden. Christ knew it was possible for God's power to save him from death, and yet to make him the Saviour of the world; but as Gods counsel decreed and revealed now stood, he knew it was not possible, the whole cup should pass from him, but that he must drink thereof. Both these Christ affirmeth in the garden. 
k Matth. 26. vers. 53.  Thinkest thou, (saith he to Peter) that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he will give me more than twelve Legions of Angels? how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so? And at the second time of his return to prayer; 
l Ibid. verse 42.  O my Father, if this cup cannot paesse away from me, but that I must drink it, (that is thereof) thy will be done. So that by the first frame of Christ's prayers, 
m Ibid. ver. 39  O my Father, IF IT BE POSSIBLE, let this cup pass from me; If we understand either Christ's purpose to make it appear, that his death revealed in the Scriptures was now by God's counsel necessarily required for our redemption, and that it was no want of power, nor neglect of his safety, that put him into the hands of his enemies, but his own good will obeying the wisdom of his Father for our salvation; or else that he desired the sharpness of the Cup might pass from him, so far as was possible, that it might not overpress his strength and patience; in either of these two senses the words stand well, and have no touch of declining or disliking the counsel and determination of God to ransom and reconcile the world to himself by the death of his Son. If with Chrysostom, Cyril, Damascene, and others, we like to make it the voice of man's weak flesh in Christ, but still subjecteth to the will of God, there is no repugnance to the will of God, which is always preferred, though there be a declining of his hand, if it were possible to stand with his will. For so long as obedience overruleth the sense of nature, and nature showeth nothing but that which is engraffed in it by God's power and will, I do not see what advantage you can take, Sir Defender, at this third sense of Christ's words, though we grant the flesh of man to be so created, that it shrinketh at the weight of God's hand, and would decline it, if it might stand with Gods will. Else were it not lawful to pray that affliction might be ended or eased, if we might desire nothing that were possible to be contrary to Gods will, since we know not his particular will touching our temporal troubles, but by the event.  

n Defenc. pag. 126. li. 16.  Thus David's and Christ's were not only possible to be contrary, but contrary in deed as the sequel showed.] You may as well infer, that God himself had contrary wills, when he repented, that he made man, when he threatened destruction to Nini●…eh, and death to King Ezechiah, and yet upon their prayers spared both, howbeit, it were blasphemy to say, that God hath wills indeed contrary one to the other, as the sequel showeth. He hath an absolute will working and performing in heaven and earth whatsoever pleaseth him, which cannot be resisted, nor frustrated by any means. He hath a conditional will, by justice threatening and punishing us, when we are sinful and careless, and by mercy sparing us, when we repent and turn unto him. And this will in him though it work contrary effects in us, yet it is in him on●… and the same will, wherewith he giveth his own, as he best liketh, pardoneth the penitent, and revengeth the obstinate; the one agr●…eing with his mercy, the other with his justice. So Christ had two wills, the one proportioned to God's creation, whereby the flesh shrinketh and shuneth pain, the other measured by God's determination, which declared his obedience; and in either of these he accorded with the will of God, who meant not only to strike, but to have the stroke felt with pain and grief to man's nature in Christ.  

o Defenc. pag. 126. li. 17.  Howbeit both their desires were nevertheless holy, made in faith, assured to receive (as conditional desires may be) directed aright, prepared sufficiently: yet only for this cause, seeing David simply knew not God's contrary will, Christ knew it not at this instant.] David repented his sin (with which God was displeased) the more earnestly & instantly, because he saw the dislike, which God had of his fact, was the cause of death denounced to his child. So that David's desire to please and pacify God with most humble and inward submission, the rather if it were possible, to avert the wrath of God threatened to his child for his offence, had in it piety, charity, humility, and other good points of godly repentance; and his prayer for his child was pardonable, because he knew not God's certain resolution to the contrary, though he heard the Prophet in God's name denounce, 
p 2. Sam. 12.  the child should surely die: which David took to be conditional, as other God's threats are oftentimes, the rather to reduce sinners to more zealous and hearty conversion unto God. But in Christ's prayers no such thing can be pretended. His not remembering, what he knew most assuredly, and believed most steadfastly, could not make his prayers to be prepared sufficiently, directed aright, and assured to receive. For neither preparation, direction, faith, nor assurance could be in the soul of Christ without understanding and memory; since neither forgetfulness, nor ignorance of that, which we should know, do warrant our prayers to be holy, much less to be perfect, and such as are assured to be heard. And if all these conditions of faithful and Godly prayer were found in Christ's petition in the Garden, as you confess, show us how they could be indeed contrary to Gods known will. I have no doubt of all Christ's prayers and speeches, but they were well advised, rightly prepared, and thoroughly assured to be heard, that is perfectly holy, as he intended them; but Christ's not remembering the will of God revealed to him, could not perform or effect these things in his prayer, but rather chose his full knowledge, and present remembrance of God's will, with exact obedience and submission thereunto. Otherwise not remembering that, which he well knew, might excuse from sin, if he were so amazed, that understanding and memory failed him; but it could not make him assured to receive, since God doth grant their desires to such, as duly remember, and not in such as in part, or wholly forget his will. Again, not remembering the truth of Gods will revealed is not faith in any man, since faith is the sure and full persuasion of Gods will and promises toward us, which if we remember not, how may we be said to be fully assured, and firmly persuaded of them? Wherefore you make out this matter with empty words, as your manner is, lest you should be taken tardy with a plain error; and have peeced together very untowardly divers men's places, the head not agreeing with the h●…eles, since you first defended, that Christ was forgetful, and all confounded in all the powers of his soul and senses of his body, or else he had sinned in praying against Gods known will; and now you anouch his prayers were made in faith, sufficiently prepared, directed aright, and assured to receive; yet only for this cause, seeing he did not remember at that instant, when he prayed, Gods will so plainly revealed unto him, and so often foretold by himself. And yet the words themselves, which Christ used in his prayer, are directly referred to Gods will; and whatsoever Christ feared, or felt according to your conceit, he was right sure was inflicted on him by God's immediate hand, and consequently by God's will, whose hand doth not work without his will, and yet seeing, and feeling it to be God's hand, and so Gods will, you make him not remember, that it was Gods will. What else is this, but to make forg●…tfulnesse to be faith, and error to be assurance, and confusion to be sufficient preparation of the mind unto prayer, which are more than monsters in Christian religion, and from which our Lord and master must be as free, as from sin?  

q Defenc. pag. 126. li. 26.  All in vain then do you charge me, that I stretch the Scriptures beyond their words and truth, when in my discourse I show that Christ in the Garden was astonished and grievously perplexed, the text having only he began to be astonished and grievously perplexed.] You took upon you in your Treatise, without all proof, against the plain words, and plainer circumstances of the text to pronounce, that Christ in the Garden 
r Treat. pa. 55.  fell amazed and sorgetfull of himself, and 
s Ibid. pa. 53.  could not be but astonished, overwhelmed, and all confounded in his whole humanity, both in all the powers of his soul and senses of his body, and unless this had been in him, he had sinned in deed. The ground of all this gear you made the words of S. Mark, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he began to be afraid and in great heaviness. I observed out of jerom, that it is one thing to begin to be heavy (or sorrowful) as the text saith, another thing to have the Passion of heaviness (or sorrow) to overwhelm the mind, as you would have it. In this you say, I charge you all in vain; and why so? because the Scripture doth sometime use the word (to begin) where the continuance followeth. Had Ierom made no farther reason, then that Christ began to be afraid; and so avouched, that nothing beginning might proceed or continue, the places of Scripture here heaped by you might have made some show; but jerom giveth a good reason of his words, that the passion of fear and sorrow might not be excessive and dominant in the mind of Christ, because it is the sinful corruption of our nature to be so overswayed with immoderate and sudden affections, in which he could not communicate with us. This reason you skip, and bend yourself to prove, the Scripture useth the words (he began) where the action had continuance. As though any man doubted thereof, but as well good, as bad actions must have their beginnings, before they can have any proceeding, or continuing; but doth that word prove, that every thing once begun is brought to an end, or that every affection rising in man's nature groweth to the highest degree? if the word stand indifferent to signify the beginning of every action or affection, either interrupted before the end, or proceeding and continuing to the end and height thereof; then make those words nothing for your extreme confusion of fear & sorrow growing to the greatest height, that might be, as you imagine. And that the word naturally signifieth a beginning in the Scriptures, without any necessity that the action or affection should continue, though some might proceed and increase, where the Scripture testifieth so much, there can be no question.  
In the fourteenth of Luke, Christ showing by a familiar example of a builder, how ridiculous and odious it is to begin a good thing, and not to perform it, repeateth the common mock that followeth such vain enterprises: This man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 began to build, but could not make an end. So saith the Apostle to the Galathians: 
t Galat. 3.  Are you so unwise, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beginning in the spirit, you will end in the fl●…sh? S. Matthew describeth how Peter walking on the water towards Christ, and beholding a mighty wind, was strooken with fear, 
u Matth. 14.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and beginning to sink, cried; Lord save me. And jesus straightway stretched out his hand, and stayed him. So in many other places: 
x Philip. 1.  I am persuaded of this, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he which hath begun a good work in you, will perform it to the day of Christ. When the ten Disciples heard james and john desire, that one of them might sit at Christ's right hand, and the other at his left in glory, 
y Marc. 10.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, they began to disdain ●…ames and john; but Christ presently called his Disciples unto him, and by his speech repressed ambition on the one side, and indignation on the other. So Peter, when those that stood by him in the high Priests hall, charged him by his tongue to be one of Christ's followers, 
z Matth. 26.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he began to curse and swear, he knew not the man. And immediately the cock crew, and Peter remembering the words of jesus, went out, and wept bitterly, repenting his fault. An hundred examples might be brought, where the word is in the like sort used to signify the beginning of any thing, as well without continuance as with, when the Scripture expresseth so much; but these are so clear, that they admit no contradiction. And therefore jeroms observation is very true, and grounded on better reason than your refutation.  

a Defenc. pag. 127. li. 2.  As Christ was indeed astonished, so he did at first but begin to be thus, & then afterward grew to the full.] That he began to be afraid, the Evangelist saith; that he afterward grew to the full, no Evangelist writeth any such thing; except you take upon you to be the fifth Evangelist, boldly and falsely to avouch that which the other four do not mention. And as you enlarge the circumstances of the Evangelists, so do you restrain the significations of their words as pleaseth you: for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by all Interpreters, and even by such as were the first devisers of Christ's forgetfulness, is rendered expavescere, to be afraid, and not to be astonished. calvin doth thus ●…xpresse the words o●… S. Mark: Caepit expavescere, & moerore aff●…ci. 
b Calvin. harmonia in Marci. ca 14.  Christ began to be afraid, and affected with grief. As in S. Matthew he translateth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, affici moestitudine, to be touched with heaviness; and timor & moestitia, fear and heaviness are all the words, that by any warrant of sacred Scriptures Calvin could find. Beza in his Latin translation keepeth the same word; Caepit expavescere, Christ began to be afraid and so doth the Genevian translation of the Bible into English; He began to be afraid, and in great heaviness. Others more indifferent I shall not need to repeat. You take a course by yourself, that as you differ from all men in opinion, so you will in translation of the words. For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you will have to be 
c Defenc. pag. 123.  astonished with fear though the rest content themselves to say, he began to be afraid.  

d Defenc. pag. 127. li. 6.  The Text following doth invincibly show, that he did fully come to the extremity of astonishment, and began not only. For did he but begin, when he sweat clotted blood trickling from his body to the ground? also when an Angel was sent from heaven to refresh him and comfort him: did he then but begin to be heavy?] Your fancies follow so fast without the Text, that they run headlong against the Text. That Christ was afraid, I do not deny; that he came to the extremity of astonishment, the Scriptures deny; howsoever you whisk it after your whifling manner, that you may seem a man tried in all toys. The extremity of astonishment is neither to do nor speak any thing, but to be silent, and as it were without sense, as I have formerly showed. Yourself doth so describe it: for you say, Christ was astonished, that is, overwhelmed, and all confounded in all the powers of his soul, and senses of his body. A man in this case hath no right use of reason, understanding, memory, speech, sight, or hearing for the time. Was Christ so? do your impertinent bushes prove any such thing? do they not rather prove the contrary? did not Christ speak, when he prayed? did he not rebuke his Disciples for their sleepiness, and admonish them to watch and pray, that they entered not into temptation? did he not fall to more earnest and vehement prayer, when his sweat began to look like blood, which you in your learned conceit call clotted blood? The strong cries and tears, which you mention, do they not plainly reprove your supposed astonishment, and clearly confirm, that Christ had all the powers of his soul, and senses of his body in their full use, when he thus converted them with such zeal and contention of mind to this great work of our redemption? what Sadler or Shoemaker would conclude this to be the fullness of astonishment, which by so manifest circumstances cited by yourself is irrefragablely refuted? and on you run, as if you would overbear all the world with such witless words, and flaunting follies, which only serve to bewray the weakness of your own conceits. Fear and sorrow I admit in the soul of Christ, and religious of either kind in the highest degree, that man's nature is capable of. A natural fear of death in the flesh of Christ I likewise acknowledge, but I make not these things which you mean, the effects thereof. What I receive, and what I refuse in our saviours agony, I have so largely delivered, that I must not spend paper to repeat all again. Neither doth jerom mean, that Christ had a touch of fear, and no farther, as you most fond misconstrue him, and his words, where he saith, Christ began to be afraid; but he meaneth, Christ so far admitted the piercing and painful affection of fear (for a time required in so great a cause) that it neither possessed him wholly, nor continually, to bear dominion over him, or to work any corruption in him, which is usual in our affections. You make yourself merry with the beginning, and never consider, that jerom thereby excludeth the height of our inordinate affections of fear and sorrow, such as you bring in when you all confound Christ in his whole humanity, both in all the powers of his soul, and senses of his body.  

E Defenc. pag. 127. li 33.  As for jerom, if he deny this, I must crave leave to dissent from him.] And from you, if you affirm that, all wise and Christian Readers must dissent without your leave. For it is not only false, and directly repugnant to the text, but it is extremely wicked and impious to bring that confusion, which you mention, and forgetfulness into all the powers of Christ's soul, and senses of his body. [
f Ibid. li. 27.  I think all to little sufficiently to express our Lords sufferings for us.] You must then think the doctrine & pen of the holy Ghost to be most unsufficient, that continually & clearly proposeth the sufferings of the son of God for our salvation without any such presumptuous and irreligious speeches. And howsoever you commend your devotion in 
g Ibid. li. 31.  labouring to show, how Christ loved us, and to what baseness of our nature he submitted himself for our sake; learn first to content yourself with that, which the wisdom and justice of God required of his sons human nature, and the truth of God witnesseth in the Scriptures, and so shall you honour the sufferings of Christ, as you ought to do, and not devise new hells and new damnations for him, to please your violent fansi●…s. And as new is your devotion, as strange; if the whole Church of Christ before your time ne●…er knew, nor heard, how Christ loved his, and to what he submitted himself for their sakes; but have all this while erred in believing & following the direction of God's spirit in the word of truth and life, since they wanted all knowledge of your hellish torments and confusion, which you have lately invented for the soul of Christ, as the more principal part of our redemption, and without which, the death of the Cross, to which he was obedient, was nothing worth.  

h Defenc. pag. 127. li. 38.  Nay God forbid we should rejoice in any thing so much, neither can we praise and magnify him for any thing so highly, as we may and aught for this extreme abasing of Christ for us.] There was never no heretic, that could not cast a show of piety upon his erroneous pretences. Satan doth transform himself into an Angel of light, and falsehood always seeketh to put on the vizard of truth. Is it not thanks worthy, that the son of God would leave the use and honour of his divine glory, wherein hce was equal to his Father, and take unto him the shape of a servant with all the baseness and weakness of our flesh, and with the shame and pain of his death on the cross, make satisfaction for our sins, and by his blood redeem us to God, which is the emptying of himself expressed by the Apostle in the place abused and misapplied by you; but you must teach all this is scant worth thanks, if Christ did not suffer in soul the second death, which is the lake burning with fire and brimstone, and even the very pains of the damned, that you might be indeed beholding unto him? And what if another as wise as you, will say, that all which Christ suffered here on earth, was not worth thanks, except he suffered in hell amongst the devils, where indeed are the pains of the damned, which you have lately derived to the earth upon your authority; shall this impiety also go for good religion, because the more Christ suffered for us, the more we are and aught to be beholding unto him? we shall do well to think, that we can never give thanks sufficient for the least of his mercies; and not take upon us to determine, what recompense God must exact of his son for our sins, except he will be unjust, which is a most pestilent presumption and intrusion upon the secret counsels and judgements of God; but rather learn to lament our own unworthiness and wickedness, and not delight or dwell in sin, which God so hated and abhorred, that nothing could appease his wrath against our uncleanness, but only the death and blood of his own Son.  

i Defenc. pag. 128. li. 2.  Remember your own words out of Austen, that there is in some men INSIPIENS HONORIFICENTIA, a fond intent of honouring Christ. If there be any such, surely this is one point thereof, which you maintain.] You apply Fathers, as you do Scriptures; and call S. Austen fool, as well as all the rest of the learned and ancient pillars of Christ's Church, because they reject your hellish confusion, by which you overwhelm all the powers of Christ's soul and senses of his body, rather than you will yield him understanding and remembrance in his prayers. S. Austen saith indeed of the Manichees, that were loath to confess, Christ truly died a bodily death on the cross, for fear of bringing him within the curse of a corporal death, since the death of man's body first proceeded from God's curse against sin; and therefore defended, that Christ seemed there to die in outward show, but indeed did not die on the cross; S. Austen, I say, affirmeth, that they with a foolish pretence of honour unto Christ, denied the love of Christ towards us, and the truth of Christ, who professed, that he should and would lay down his life a ransom for many. What is this to the pains of the damned, or to the death of the soul, of which S. Austen saith, 
k August. epist. 99  who dare avouch it? and yet meant not so foolishly to honour Christ, as thereby to deny or impugn the truth of Christian religion?  

l Defenc. pag. 128. li. 5.  Master calvin a worthy minister of Christ, and a pillar of the Church is bold and saith; we confess indeed such is the baseness and folly of Christ's cross, that proud men cannot away with it.] If master calvin mean, as the Apostle doth, that the heathen not knowing the wisdom & power of God in the cross of Christ, counted it mere fol●…y for him, that was God, to become man, and in the body of his flesh to endure so vile and shameful a death; I account him no Christian, that is not of that mind with master calvin: but if he call them all proud, that did not like his new device of Christ's suffering hell on the cross, which you have stretched and drawn to many degrees and points above master calvin, then let him look, whether it be pride to believe the plain and fair doctrine of truth delivered in the Scriptures, as all the Fathers of Christ's Church did, or for men to add thereunto their own devices, as you and some others have done. For my part, as I love and honour master Caluines name, and like well his resolutions, where he contented himself in the grounds of doctrine and discipline to join with the ancient and primative Church of Christ; so when he leaveth them upon some liking of his private devices, I must leave him. I so honour him, that I will not for love to him dishonour all antiquity, as if Christ had never any Church, nor faithful or learned minister therein before master calvin. And were it worth the while, I could easily show many great and main differences betwixt master Caluines conceit of hell suffered in the soul of Christ, and yours; but because it hath occasioned and hatched your amplified error of an other hell from the immediate hand of God, I will not trouble myself, nor the Reader with sifting or censuring that, which I am not bound to believe, no more than I am yours; till it be proved by more substantial grounds, than master Calvin's good liking of it.  

m Defenc. pag. 128. li. 10.  In another place, where I showed from the more to the less, how Christ might have (for the sudden) the powers of his mind astonished, and yet no decay in him of faith, nor obedience nor patience: Like as there is not in a man a sleep, or amazed with a blow on the head, hereupon you ask me scoffingly, was Christ a sleep, or in a swoon?] Your answer was indeed drawn from the less, to the more; that is, from the lesser vanity and falsity, to the greater; and therefore my question, which you call a scoff, was a sound refutation of such ignorant misapplying of things impertinent & uncoherent. For what if a man in his sleep, or in a swoon, retain habitual faith, obedience, and patience; doth that prove, that Christ awaked and well advised might pray, he knew not what, and yet have actual faith, obedience, and patience? If a man should babble in his sleep, or groan in a swoon, before he recover sense or understanding, would you call that faith or prayer, though the habit of faith were then in him? no more doth that example prove any actual faith, obedience, or patience in Christ at the time of his often and earnest prayers in the garden, if all that while you make him all confounded in all the powers of his soul, and so astonished, that he could not, or did not remember his Fathers oft revealed, and oft repeated will, nor his own person nor office, who came unto this hour of purpose to perform his Fathers will. And therefore you must get you some better patterns for the use and acts of faith, obedience, and patience in Christ's astonishment, then sleeping or swooning, or else each Christian Reader will soon perceive you to be worse than a sleep, when you dream of a 
n Defence pag. 128. li. 26.  far greater astonishment in Christ at the time of prayers, then is to be se●…ne in any man else, that ever was or shall be: And yet you defend, there might be actual faith, obedience, and patience in Christ, because men in sleep, or in a swoon retain the habits, or gifts of those virtues.  

o Defenc. pag. 128. li. 21.  As you grant that amazedness and astonishment cometh naturally from sorrows and fears: so I think in Christ both the one and the other was in the extremest and most violent degree that might be.] Then must you also think, that Christ had not the free use of speech, memory, and understanding, nor of sense nor motion for the time, that he was in that amazedness. For it is evident, as I have showed out of Galen a sufficient witness of natural effects and defects, that men thoroughly amazed with fear, neither speak nor do any thing: yea no man is so very a stranger to nature, but he knoweth, that astonishment in the highest degree hindereth both sense, and motion outward and inward. And therefore when you put our Saviour into the 
p Ibid. li. 26.  extremest and most violent degree of amazedness, that might be, and into far greater astonishment, then is to be seen in any man else, that ever was or shallbe; I report me to the Christian Reader, that hath read or seen any thing, whether by this bold and violent imagination of yours you do not take from Christ the use of bodily sense, motion, and speech; and even of understanding, and memory. The Scripture noteth of the guest, which wanted his wedding garment, that when he was challenged for it, he 
q Matth. 22.  was speechless. When Saul heard the threats of him, that appeared in the person of Samuel, He 
r 1. Sam. 28.  suddenly fell all along on the earth, as sore afraid, because of the words. When Saint john saw the sight of the son of God in his glory 
s R●…u. 1. v. 17.  He fell at his feet, as dead for very fear. So that fear may so far amaze men, as to take from them speech, strength, and all use of life, that they may lie even as dead for the time; which whether it agr●…e to our Saviour in the garden, I make any man judge, that ever read or heard that part of the Gospel.  

t Defenc. pag. 128. li. 35.  For my life I cannot answer, this that followeth. The suffering of hell pains, which astonish and confound all the powers of the soul, and senses of the body, neither was nor could be meritorious with God. I deny (this) assumption. Not only all Christ's pains were meritorious, but even all his infirmities also: his weariness, his hunger, his sleep, and so his astonishment and amazedness.] The sleightness of your answer doth prove that, which I said, to be tru●…r, than you are ware of. For though diminution of strength, as in weariness; affliction of nature, as in hunger; and ligation of sense, as in sleep; yea if you will, privation of life, as in death; were meritorious in Christ, because the person, that was God and man, submitted himself to these infirmities of our nature, which no way perverted nor hindered the inward powers or actions of Christ's human soul, yet that is no proof, that such impressions, as deprive the soul of Christ of her proper and essential operations by confounding Reason, understanding, will and memory, should be meritorious, because they all confound the very instruments of grace in the soul of Christ, which are requisite unto merit. For though the person in Christ, which by nature did owe no obedience by reason it had an equality with God, was the chief fountain of all Christ's merits, which could not have infinite price and value, but that he was infinite, and no way bound, who wrought them by his human nature; yet the instruments of merit in Christ's manhood were his soul, and his body; and chiefly his soul by her understanding and will always p●…rfectly knowing, absolutely liking, and constantly performing by the presence and power of God's spirit those things, which were most pleasing to God. So that the pains and infirmities, which you suppose in Christ, if they did confound and astonish all the powers of Christ's soul and senses of his body (For so are the words of your assertion, and my assumption) they neither were, nor could be meritorious. In sleep the senses of Christ's body rested, which he could have strengthened by power without sleep, but that he willingly submitted himself to those infirmities of our nature for obedience to his Father's will; yet even then was the soul of Christ left free to divine cogitations and visions, which could not want in the soul of Christ having the full and perpetual possession and fruition of God's grace and truth, though he would want the power and glory provided for him, till Gods appointed time. Christ's sleep than had no agreement with your late devised confusion of all the powers of Christ's soul; yea the prayers, speeches, and actions of Christ in the garden, if you then confound in him all understanding, will, and memory, which are the powers of Christ's soul, must by your doctrine be full of vanity, and rather distractions, th●…n religious and human actions, as not proceeding from the direction of grace, apprehension of mind, and submission of will, but from a confusion of all these, which no Christian man can tell what to make of. And therefore you must either recall the confufion of all the powers of Christ's soul; which you say was the extremest and most violent, that might be, or worse consequents will follow upon these desperate and false amplifications, than you yet see. For take once from Christ's soul his human understanding and will, and place nothing but confusion in his whole humanity, or as your words are, all confusion in his whole humanity, both in all the powers of his soul and senses of his body, and tell me what patience, obedience, or sanctity could be left, where neither understanding, will, not memory were, but all confounded in the extremest manner that might be.  

u Defenc. pag. 129. li.  If it seem a hard phrase, which in my former Treatise I used, saying. Christ at this instant became forgetful of that which before he knew; my meaning is (and so still I speak now) he remembered not, he considered not. Which many times we use to name forgetting, but indeed strictly and properly it is not remembering.] If you look well to it, you have harder phrases both in your defence and Treatise, than Christ to be forgetful of himself. Which if you revoke not, or plainly excuse not, rather by your folly not understanding the force of them, then standing to justify them, they will prove open impiety. I have so often repeated them, that I am weary of so unsavoury words. And as fo●… proofs, that Christ should be thus all confounded in all the powers and senses of body and soul, you be so used to wilful assertions depending only on your secret conceits, that you do not think yourself bound to prove that you say, or to say no more in Christian Religion, than you can prove. For what one sign or step of this great and general confusion in the soul of Christ do the Scriptures mention, that you should thus rack it to the extremest & highest degree, that ever was, shall, or might be? They be well holpen up, that have such an heady presumer and affirmer, as you are, to fashion their faiths after your unadvised and inconsiderate fancies: But God send you his grace to wax soberer, which is all the harm I wish you, though I like none of your pangs to be the principles of my faith.  

x Defenc. pag. 129. li. 17.  Where you would wring out a contrariety in my words, as if I had said that Christ being in the depth of his astonishment, did then perfectly know that the dominion of death should not hold him: you do me wrong, I say not so. In that place I argue from your supposition.] I have no desire to charge you with impudence, but you wax sometimes so intolerable in your brags and shifts, that I must either betray the truth, or tell you in plain terms that you do face a great deal more than you can any way fasten by just proof. Let this example stand in steed of many. If I here do you wrong, as you pretend, and you reasoned only from my supposition, let me bear the shame of it with all Christian Readers; but if it be plainly and expressly otherwise, than I pray you Sir who is the shifter and outfacer? Look on the Page of your Treatise quoted by me, viz. Pa. 59, and see whether they be not your own words (which I cited) in your answer to an objection, and justified by you out of the 10 of Mark verse 34. To an argument that 
a Trea. pa. 59 li. 16.  Christ might pray, that his bodily death might not have dominion over him, you answer, This is absurd to say that he prayed in such fear and terror of mind against that which he perfectly knew should never come to him: namely that the dominion of death should hold him. Do you confess of yourself, that you speak absurdly, or do you mean it of the obiectors, against whom you bring this as a reason; that since Christ 
* Mar. 10. 34.  perfectly knew the dominion of death could not hold him, You think it very absurd to say he feared that? And in the page precedent do you not again and again avouch the same exactness of knowledge in Christ at the time of his prayers? these are your own words tripled and quadruplied to that end. 
b Trea. pa 58. li. 30.  Thirdly, this proveth that Christ knew it was Gods determinate will, in that he termeth it an hour, that is a time set of God for his suffering. Fourthly, because he so mightily feared it, therefore doubtless he knew that he was appointed to suffer it. Thus it is manifest in plain words he prayed contrary to Gods known will. And lest you should not be constant in your manifest contradiction, do you not insist on the same words in your defence? 
c Defenc. pag. 99 li. 13.  He could not intentively pray against that, nor fear that, which he perfectly knew concerned him not at all. Where you give to Christ in that extreme astonishment, which you dream of, intentive prayer, and perfect knowledge of Gods will in some things, which again in other things you deny unto him. So that by your leave you gainsay yourself, and your denying it is as unshame fast, as your doubling it.  

d Defenc. pag. 129. li. 26.  To conclude this matter without colour of reason, you wrest a plain text, which otherwise (as it lieth) maketh strongly against you. They are our Saviour Christ's own words: Now is my soul troubled, and what shall I say? Father save me from this hour: but therefore came I unto this hour. You say these words do import a deliberation of two parts. But you speak against all reason, considering the nature and frame of the very words. A deliberation must needs be set interrogatively in both clauses. New the text is not so.] Of this place I have spoken enough before, were it not that you challenge me with such hateful terms of wresting a plain text without colour of reason, because I therein follow the judgement of Chrysostom and Epiphanius, who a man would think had not only colour of reason, but substance of learning to discern the force of that speech. First the words, as well by the nature of the petition, and your own confession, in that it is for a temporal thing; as by the supply of the rest of the Evangelists must be conditional, and have a secret reservation of God's will, as in the like case the other Evangelists do express; and namely S. Mark, who saith; 
e Mark 14.  Christ prayed, if it were p●…ssible, that hour might pass from him. And so whether they be deliberative or positive, they make nothing for your purpose, since not with resolution, but with condition, If it pleased God, Christ desired to be saved from that hour. But I wrest a plain text, because I avouch, that the words import a deliberation of two parts, which you say must needs be set interrogatively in both clauses. Whence cometh this new Art of Oratory, that every deliberation must be interrogative? As though a man might not doubt or deliberate either by int●…rrogation, condition, or simple subjection of the pa●…ts in question. When Christ asked the chief Priests and Scribes, 
f Mark 11.  whence the baptism of john was? from heaven or of men? they thought within themselves: If we say from heaven, he will say, Why then did ye not b●…leeue him? But if we say from men, we ●…eare the people. So the four Lepers that sat at the entering in of the gate of Samaria, (when the dearth was there in El●…zeus time) disputed with themselves; 
g 2. Kings 7.  Why sit we hear till we die? if we say, we will enter into the City, the famine is in the City, and we shall die there. And if we sit here, we die also. Now therefore come, let us fall into the camp of the Aramites: if they save our lives, we shall live; if they kill us, we are but dead. As here they reason with a condition, so might they have said to the same effect by way of proposing and answering to themselves: what shall we do to save our lives? we will enter the city, there is the famine; we will sit still, here is likewise death. Let us go to the Aramites: they will kill us, than we are but dead; they will save us, then gain we our lives. Is it not all one in this deliberation, whether we propose the parts by interrogation, condition, or proposition? In the words of our Saviour likewise, Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? The answer to that pathetical question, What shall I say, might have been made either by interrogation; Shall I say, Father save me from this hour? or by condition; If I say, Father save me from this hour: or by simple supposition; I will, or I would say, Father save me from this hour; but therefore came I unto this hour. Which way soever we propose the former words, Father save me from this hour; Christ's answer by way of full resolution and conclusion, But therefore came I into this hour, doth convince, that the former words, Father save me from this hour, are by himself removed, or denied as no part of his final determination, though it were, or might be a part proposed in his deliberation. For either Christ must positively determine clean contraries in one sentence, which were open inconstancy, and no way imaginable in the Son of God; or this latter must remove the former being repugnant to the main consent of his will, and intent of his coming. For therefore came he into this hour of man's redemption, because he would not be saved from it with man's destruction. And thus much the best and most skilful Interpreters have collected to be the force of the words following, to which Christ addeth the conjunction adversative, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which in their judgement supposeth here a negative precedent. So Chrysostom conceiveth our saviours words, I do not say, save me from this hour; And why? Because the words following with an adversative repugnance to the former words, do prove not the first, but the last to be Christ's full purpose.  

h Defenc. pag. 129. li. 38.  Chrysostom & Epiphanius do descant about it; trying how the text may bear such a meaning: but it can not stand being so evidently against the course of the text.] Indeed Chrysostom and Epiphanius are not comparable to you, neither in learning nor judgement; you make us such new positions and principles both of reason and faith, that their Divinity is stale to yours: but with all learned and wise men, the youngest of the twain will be trusted for the true sense of a text far before such Dreamers and Devisers as you are. The course of the text is evidently against it, you say. What course of the text? The words used by our Saviour are with it: But therefore came I into this hour. What sense or meaning can this sentence have, but that Christ purposely coming into this hour had no resolution to be delivered from this hour? which being true, the former words, Father save me from this hour, may show the desire or doubt of nature inclining to that petition, but the present refusal thereof followeth expressing Christ's will and purpose in putting himself into that hour. These words then, But therefore came I into thi●… hour, are in effect, not so, for therefore came I into this hour. Which the best Interpreters old and new have observed in the force of Christ's words. 
i Chrysost. in Joha●…nem. homil. 66.  Therefore came I into this hour, as if Christ had said (saith Chrysostom) though we be moved and troubled, yet we flee not death. For I say not (thus as my resolution) Father deliver me from this hour, but Father glorify thy name. And Epiphanius: 
k Epipha. li. 2. Heres. 69.  What shall I say? Father; speaking by way of preparation and dubitation. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, This, saith Christ, I will say, but therefore came I into this hour. For he came not against his will, but willingly. Theophylact: 
l Theophylact. in 12. cap. Johannis.  For this cause, saith Christ, came I into this hour, that I might suffer death for all. He teacheth us very plainly by this, that though we be troubled and perplexed with it, yet we should not fly death for the truth. For I, saith he, am troubled being a true man, and permit (man's) nature to show itself, yet do I not say to my Father, that he should save me from this hour, but what say I, Father glorify thy name. The later Writers, of no mean judgement, allow the same sense. Erasmus thus rendereth the sum of Christ's words: 
m Erasm. paraphra. in cap. 12. Johannis.  I find my soul troubled for the day of my death now approaching. And what shall I say? For the love of mine own life, shall I neglect the life of the world? By no means. I will apply myself to the will of my Father. Man's weakness troubled with fear of death, may say unto him, Father, if it be possible, save me from this instant danger of death. But Love desirous of man's salvation, shall presently add, Nay ra-rather, if it be expedient, let death, which I desired, come, for somuch as wittingly and willingly by the leading of the spirit I have offered myself to die. These words 
n Bullinger●… in ca Joh. 12.  Bullinger citeth, and calleth an excellent explication of that text. Gualther in like manner: 
o Gualteru●… homilia 118. in 12. ca Johannis.  This is as if Christ had said, Let no man think me as a cowardly captain, to exhort others to patience and constance, being myself safe from danger. For death approacheth me, and that so cruel and bitter, that the very remembrance thereof troubleth my soul. What then shall I say, when amongst men there is no hope? To thee o Father I turn, save me from the hour of this terrible death. But what do I say? Even therefore came I into this hour. What other thing than shall I ask, o Father, but that thou shouldest glori●…ie thy name? Do all these learned Interpreters wrest this text, and speak they against all reason without considering the nature and frame of the words, or do they out of the very frame and force of the words deduce Christ's resolution to be this, Father glorify thy name, notwithstanding my former words, since I came of purpose into this hour, not to be freed from it? [The first words 
p Defenc. pag. 129. li. 36.  pretend a plain resolution, or at least a great inclining towards resolution.] If a plain resolution, than Christ contradicteth himself with a plainer resolution in the end, which to affirm of the Son of God, advise you, whether it be blasphemous or no. As for an inclination, since Christ made no idle deliberation, but spoke out of his natural human affection abhorring death, that maketh wholly with my speech, affirming, that howsoever the sense of nature in Christ did incline to avoid death, in this debating with himself, yet he presently refused it by saying, But therefore came I into this hour, and fully resigned it, when he said, Father glorify thy name: which resolution of his, God ratified with his own voice from heaven, I have glorified it and will glorify it.  

q Defenc. pag. 130. li. 10.  Hence I reasoned effectually before, but no where you answer it. If Christ's such suffeings in his soul were ordained of God for him, then certainly indeed he did suffer the same.] Certainly indeed a man shall scant meet with such another, that disdaineth all men's reasons and interpretations besides his own, and when he cometh to conclude any thing, can hardly discern an Owl from an Eagle. Here is a profound argument made for your hell pains, that Christ's soul was troubled with the foresight and remembrance of his death on the Cross: ergo God ordained, that certainly and indeed he should suffer in his soul the pains of the damned. Children in their cradles, if they could prattle, would easily match the goodness of this reason; and other answer, as it needeth none, so it shall have none for me, how effectual soever this fancy seemeth unto you.  

r Defenc. pag. 130 li. 17.  Further you except, that this was fear of eternal death, which caused in Christ this agony, and from his fear he was delivered. To say (as you do) that it was eternal death and eu●…rlasting malediction, which Christ here thus woefully and distressefully feared, is the strangest speech in Diutnity that ever I heard.] You cunningly dissemble, as your manner is, that Pag. 22. which you quote, I professed to refuse no man's opinion, that 
s Se●…m pag. 22. li. 2.  agreed any way with the rules of truth; and thereupon laid down three things, which Christ might 〈◊〉 in the Cup of God's wrath, and by his prayer accordingly decline them: to wit, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, corporal 〈◊〉 above his strength, and the separation of his soul from hi●… bod●…e by de●…th. The fear of eternal death, which is urged by some of good learning, and even by the Catechism, on which you would seem to stand so much, if we admi●…ted in Christ himself, I said must be taken for a Religious dislike and shunning of hell, 
t Sermo. pag. 23. li. 4.  not for any distrust of his own salvation, or doubt of God's displeasure against himself, which we could not imagine in Christ, without evident want of grace and loss of faith, and these we might not attribute to Christ's person, no not for an instant. Where then I allege so many reasons Pa. 23. 
u li. 32.  guarding Christ's person most sufficiently fro●… all danger and do●…bt of eternal death; thence you collect, that I avouch, Christ thus ●…ofully and distressefully feared everlasting damnation, which is a strange and 〈◊〉 falsehood, though familiar with you, as if without such gross stuff you could not 〈◊〉 out your pamphlet. The Catechism we heard before, saying, that Christ was Aeternae mortis horrore persusus, wholly touched with the horror of 〈◊〉 death. M. Calvin saith as much, 
x Calvin. in li. 2. ca 16. sect. 10.  unde eum oportuit cum Inf●…rorum copi●…s, 〈◊〉 mortis horrore, qu●…si consertis manibus luctari. Wherefore Christ was to wrestle h●…nd in 〈◊〉 with all the power of h●…ll, and with the horror of ETERNAL death. Others might be brought in like sort, but these suffice to discharge me, that I did not imagine these things of mine own head, but found them in men of good learning and judgement, which yet I did not receive, except we did expound their words to import in Christ a religious fear declining everlasting death in him●…elfe, or affectionately sorrowing, when he conside●…ed what was due to us for ou●… sins. Wherefore if you make so strang●… of these words, stir against your authorized Catechism and Master Calvin who first used them.  

y Defenc. p●…g. 130. li. 20.  You cannot help yourself in making Christ's ●…eare of this death to be only a religious fear, and a fear for others, these imaginations I have removed before. Then you perceive well enough, in what sense I admit their words, but to advantage yourself, you dispense with a slanderous lie. Your removing is like the rolling of paper to make pipes withal, you play still on one string, and that so much out of tune, that every man is weary with hearing it, besides yourself. 
z li. 29.  These affections, you say, were not likely in him at all, much less to be the causes of such effects.] As though Christ had none other causes of sorrow, but only this. And what unlikelihood, that these should be in Christ at this season, saving that your fancy leadeth you to what you list? [These are not fear properly, they ought rather to be called a religious care, and pitt●…e, which differ greatly from the nature of fear properly taken.] Did I profess that Christ feared everlasting death properly? did I not rather excuse or qualify the vehemency of their words, who put in Christ an horror of eternal death? you reason now against the Catechism, which you make show to maintain, and not against me. For other fear of everlasting death in Christ then improper I acknowledge none. [You think the nature of enlabeia will not admit any proper fear,] Then do you convince yourself to be a notable deluder and abuser of the truth. For you are not ignorant what I say, but you pervert it of purpose to miscarry your Reader, and countenance your cause. [
a li. 38.  What say you, did Christ doubt eternal damnation, and therefore feared it?] you lack a wooden dagger to become your part better; have I any such words or sense? I show the general signification of ●…labeia to be 
b Conclus. pa. 305. li. 25.  a careful and diligent regard to beware or decline that, which we mislike or doubt, and that as well in private and public affairs, as in Religion: and you apply this, as if I had said, Christ feared and doubted eternal damnation. Whereas I neither mention eternal damnation in all that section, nor so much as name Christ within forty lines of those words, which show how largely enlabeia is taken. [You speak so darkly that I know not how to take you.] You double so continually that I cannot tell what to make of you: I have in the same page, 305. whence you took these words, distinctly showed what parts of God's wrath, Christ might be said to fear or suffer, and in what sense, and yet you complain of darkness, when you shun the light, and watch for a word applied to another purpose, pretending you must needs stumble at that straw. And therefore never come in with any after close, what my meaning may be, if my words be not plain, reprove them; if they be, refute them, except you receive them.  
This you say cometh nearest to the signification of the Greek word. I grant it doth touching eulabeia, but in Ma●…ke the word doth import properly fear, and that in extremity.] It is happy yet that when you cannot choose, you will grant that, which is fully proved to your face. In your unlearned Treatise you would needs make as unlearned an observation, that 
c Treatis. pag. 74. li. 22.  this very word not only in other Authors, but in the Scripture is used for a perplexed fear: And when your ignorance is convinced, (for enlab●…ia is not only less than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which is fear in the Greek tongue; but contrary to it, because it is the 
d De placitis Philoso. li. 7. in zenone.  declining of evil with reason and circumspection, as Diogenes Laertius writeth) you grant that which you cannot gainsay. With as much skill you avouch, that ekthambei●…thai doth import properly fear and that in extremity; whereas properly it noteth admiration at any strange or sudden sight. Whether fear be joined with it or no, which sometime is according to the cause and circumstance of the place. [
e Defenc. pag. 131. li. 8.  My reason that Eulabeia here signifieth fear properly, yea a perplexed fear, and not only a religious devotion, as you say, is grounded not so much on the nature of the word, as on the circumstances of the place, and the other words of the text.] Christ did as well naturally fear that, which he suffered, as that which he shunned; though he were heard in that only, which he religiously shunned, and not in the rest, which he suffered. And therefore the other words of the text do not infer, that enlabeia contained all, that Christ feared; but only that, which he religiously feared, and from which he was freed. And where you [
f Defenc. pag. 131. li 23.  grant the Apostle may intend this also by the nature of the word, that Christ notwithstanding all this dreadful fear, yet declined not a jot from a most reverend regard of obedience to God, which still he kept firm and safe:] You think with your mixtures to work some marvels. For that one and the same word in one and the same place should have two repugnant or different significations, and the Apostle there intent them both, this is news to all men save to you, to whom no manner of absurdities are new. And where you would knit a dreadful fear of evil from God, and a reverend regard of obedience to God, both together in one word, you make Christ at one instant to decline that, which he did desire, and to desire that, which he did decline. For what he did fear, that he did decline, and what he so reverently regarded, that he as much desired, which was obedience to God; and so by one and the same word you conceive not only contrary minds, but contrary matters in Chris. [
g li. 29.  To like effect this word signifieth in that place of the Acts 23. vers. 10. as the circumstances also will confirm.] We should soon have heard of those circumstances, if any such had been, but if you omit them as weak, I need not entertain them as worthy of answer. I see no such circumstances, as you speak of, much less any such signification of the word, as you have framed us out of the Apostle. Every caution declining any thing, feareth somewhat, which it would prevent, and so eulabeia, when it signifieth to be wary of any evil, hath a fear of that evil, lest it should happen, and therefore seeketh the best means to decline it.  

h Defenc. pag. 131. li. 32.  Where you argue Christ was delivered from his fear of hell torments; ergo he suffered them not, I deny your sequel. This proveth directly the contrary. He feared the death of the soul, ergo he did suffer it.] My sequel I think hath ground sufficient in nature and Scripture to make it good. When the Saints so often prayed to God to deliver them from the dangers, which they feared, or found coming towards them, did they mean they would suffer them first to the full, and after be loosed from them; or else that they would be freed from them, and not suffer them? I know there is a deliverance out of the midst of troubles; and so you may defend that Christ was delivered from hell fire, because he did not suffer it eternally: But since fear by the rules of nature is of future, and not of present evil, if Christ were heard from his fear; that is, delivered from that which he feared, then certainly he did not suffer it. But th●…nce you infer directly the contrary, for 
i li. 36.  that fear is of that, which is to come, as (you say) I well observe.] Surely your sequels be like rotten rinds, they fall a sunder as soon, as they be touched. Did I avouch, that fear was of that only, which necessarily must come, or of that, which possibly might come to ourselves, or to others? Is there any man of common sense, that ever affirmed as you do, that whatsoever a man feareth, must befall him? for that is your direct proof, of which you speak, that all things feared must necessarily come to pass. Otherwise if men may fear that which is imminent, and yet be freed from it, how will it follow, that Christ really suffered, what he feared? 
k Defenc. pag. 132. li. 2.  Such a manner and measure of fear, as this manifestly was, could not be but a very suffering.] Of what? of fear, or of the thing feared? fear is an affection or passion of the mind foreseeing evil, that is possible, and afflicting itself for the approaching, or possibility thereof. But he that maketh no difference betwixt the fear of future evil, and the sense of present evil, confoundeth all things. Men may fear they know not what, yea they may fear, where no fear is, that is, without just cause; but this is the weakness, or guiltiness of man's mind pursuing itself by fearing that, which they need not, or should not fear.  

l Defenc. pag. 132. li. 5.  My soul is (saith Christ) full of (actual) sorrows even unto death.] When you add anything to the words of our Saviour, you should take care to put nothing to them, but that which is sensible and true, since he was full of wisdom and truth. Now this that you add in help of your conceits, is neither. For sorrows are passions, not actions of the mind; and therefore to say actual sorrows, hath no sense in it. If by actual you mean present, than you exclude all future sorrows against the plain words of our Saviour, who noteth his should continue unto death. As for present torments inflicted on the soul of Christ by the immediate hand of God the word perilypos, doth no way reach to them, nor express any such thing. You may be therefore suffered to say, 
m li. 6.  there is in this no doubtful word; for that which you add, is so absurd and senseless, that no wise man will judge it doubtful. (
* li. 7.  your comparisons of fearing captivity, death, losing a purse etc. are devices unfit for divinity.] I match them not with Christ's sufferings good sir, but by them I show how lewtering your Logic is, in saying a man suffereth, that he feareth; which is so far from truth, that every child may soon confute it, and well deride it. [
n Defenc. pag. 132. li. 12.  God you say, might well hear Christ two ways; Frst, by sufficient sustaining him in it; Secondly, by delivering him out of it in due time.] Add this interpretation then to the words of Christ's prayers in the Garden, and what is become of your main position, Christ prayed in plain words contrary to Gods known will? For since God did sustain Christ in that he suffered, and in the end delivered him with honour and glory, the cup by your constuction may be said in both these respects to have passed from him, and so in either sense God heard him, and delivered him from it. But else where you are in greater earnest, that Christ could not intentively pray against that, nor fear that, which he most perfectly knew could by no means ever possibly come ne●…re him, namely that the dominion of death should hold him. If there you were in sadness, than now you do jest or worse, to tell us that God might well hear Christ in that he never did or could pray for. That the death of the soul or body should have dominion over him, was simply impossible, and Christ 〈◊〉 knew so much, as your own words yield. Then neither did he, nor could he pray, by your positions, for any such thing, and consequently God did not hear him in those things for which he prayed not. And so your two ways of hearing and delivering Christ, yourself, by your own doctrine, overthrow, rather as jests, then just deliverances. And then doth my sequel pursue you more strongly than before, that Christ must be freed from suffering that he feared, not by suffering it, since he never doubted and so never prayed by your divinity to be sustained in it, nor after suffering to be freed from it.  

p Defenc. pag. 132. li. 15.  In another place you seem to observe a point both strange and very contrary to yourself in saying fear is more intolerable in Christ then doubting; when you have so often and so earnestly affirmed, that Christ feared, & for fear became astonished.] To him that never read leaf nor line of holy Scripture, this may make some jolly show; but to him that can distinguish white from black, it will appear to be rather an ignorant conceit in you, than a repugnant speech in me. A natural fear of evil is incident to all men's natures by God's ordinance in his first creating us, and so common to Christ's manhood with all men, be they good or bad. For therefore did God threaten death to Adam if he disobeyed, that both the love of God enjoyed, and fear of evil (if he transgressed,) might restrain him from sin. A religious fear of God's greatness, and (in cause of committing or suffering for sin) the trembling at the power of his wrath, is proper to the godly, wherein Christ might and did communicate with them, as being to bear the punishment of our sin, though he were free from all sin. A distrustful fear, which quencheth faith and excludeth hope, is common to all the wicked, and therein Christ might not concur with them, lest he conjoined with them in si●…ne. The first was tolerable, the second was commendable in Christ, the third was neither. Of this third kind of fear I speak, when I say, fear is more 〈◊〉 in Christ then doubting. But perhaps you could not discern so much, because my speech was dar●…e. I am content to be tried by the Reader, whether any man might mistake my words even there, where you stumble at them, but he that would wilfully pervert them. My words stand thus. In that perfect persuasion, knowledge, and assurance of God's everlasting 
q Sermo. pa. 118. li. 22.  purpose, favour, and love towards him, that he should be the Saviour of the world, if doubting be not tolerable, how enexcusable is fear and terror, as if he were forsaken of God? Do●… I here speak of all kinds of fears, or of that only, whereby Christ should fear, lest God's purpose, promise, and love towards him might fail? my illation in that very page is this. The soul of Christ must therefore be far from fearing or doubting lest 
r Ibid. li. 32.  God would change his mind, recall his word, frustrate his promise, and violate his o●…th: for these are blasphemies against God, in the highest degree. He must be more than blind, which doth not see what kind of fear I exclude from Christ: but you did cunningly to pervert my words, when you could not resist my reasons. For all your apprehensions of Gods proper wrath and fiery indignation, which you so much proclaim, if you direct them to the person of Christ, as if he conceived, feared, or doubted any change or decrease of God's favour and love towards him, or his sacrifice, then are they these very fears, which here I banish from Christ as utterly blasphemous. It was therefore some skill to shift of these words with a slanderous and false crimination lest they should make you breath, before you were disburdened of them, if you took them rightly.  

s Defenc. pag. 132. li. 19  You seek a weak advantage in that I said eisaekonstheiss may seem to show, that Christ was heard being in that, which he was saved from. You see I challenge no certain but a seeming reason from that word.] In the main ground of our salvation and redemption, which are most certain in the Scriptures, to impugn the doctrine there delivered with seeming reasons, is the guise of him that would seem a good Christian, but is none. Indeed you have beset yourself in your defence with store of seem; as I could specify the places and points, if it were to this purpose; and I think your whole defence hath nothing in it but your seem, you use therein so few either authorities or reasons, other than your own conceits and assertions. But upon these seem you set pestilent positions, slanderous imputations, and false conclusions, as even here you both resolve, that Christ was in your hell pains; and you presume so to translate the word eisakonstheiss, he was heard being in it, as if that were the true force of the Apostles words. [But yourself maketh a stranger conclusion; ergo the active 
〈◊〉 Treat pag. 63. li. 26.  referred to God; importeth that God being in the same pains did hear him.] Yet such a conclusion, as your collection cannot avoid. For where Christ was heard, God did hear; the passive in Christ noteth the active to be truly affirmed of God, that he did hear Christ. If then that word, as you boldly with your seeming reason and false translation affirm, import being in the pains of hell, it must so signify as well in the active referred to God, as in the passive applied to Christ. If you be now ashamed to hear of these unseeming and unsavoury reasons; blot them out of your own book, and bestow your time better hereafter.  

u Defenc. pag. 132. li. 24.  Lastly, you say, but in the garden Christ never prayed with strong cries and tears to be saved from death, that we read in the Scriptures. I hope you do●… not read in the Scriptures expressly at all, that thus he prayed in the garden: You may sound gather it from the Scriptures I grant. My words are not, that the Scriptures expressly name Christ's tears in the garden; but that none other place nor time of Christ's prayer mentioned in the Evangelists, do admit tears but the garden. For there the place being private, and his prayers so vehement, that his sweat was like blood, both old and new writers have collected, that the Apostles words were verified in the garden, yea the sweat of Christ Bernard calleth tears, where he saith: 
x Bernardus in Ramis Palmarum Serm. 3.  Christ falling into an agony, prayed the third time where he seemed to weep, not only with his eyes, but with all the parts of his body, that the whole body of his Church might be purged with the tears of his whole body. Zinglius confesseth as much. 
y Zinglius in Historiam Passio.  Non lachrymas modo oculis sed & sanguinis guttas è corpore exprimit seria & devota oratio, ut in trepidatione Christi est cernere. Serious & devote prayer doth not only draw tears from the eyes, but a bloody sweat from the body, as we see in Christ's Agony. And surely the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews must either not collect this from the Scripture, but report it besides the Scripture, which is somewhat dangerous; os else by the sweat of Christ's face, trickling down to the ground, he collected, that in that in: entive and vehement prayer, tears ran down as fast as sweat, and jointly with sweat: and other sound gathering it from the Scriptures there is none. And this collection if you grant, that the Apostle from the vehemency of Christ's prayer observed the cause of the one to be the cause of the other, since it was not possible the face should run with sweat through the fervency of prayer, and not the eyes with tears; then grant you, that it may sound be gathered from the Scriptures, that zeal of prayer, and not heat of pain was the cause of Christ's bloody sweat.  

z Defenc. pag. 132. li. 34.  The Apostle in all reason may be understood to have respect to all the woeful times and cries of our Saviour, as on the cross, and in the 12. of john.] There is no reason to extend the Apostles words to Christ's prayer in the 12. of john: for there the Scripture doth not mention either strong cries or tears, which are the Apostles words. On the cross he used a loud voice, but tears he shed none, neither was the sense of his prayer there to be freed from death, but rather to hasten his death, to which he had now wholly submitted himself according to his Fathers will. And therefore your stretching the Apostles words to all those times, to make Christ's agony, if you could tell how, to continue on the cross, wanteth all reason. His pain most increased on the cross, and his sorrow rising thence could not decrease; but neither his astonishment, nor that which the Scripture calleth his agony, accompanied with his bloody sweat, continued on the cross. You think it unreasonable to say, that Christ on the cross had persistence in joy, and beheld God always favourable and faithful unto him, 
a Defenc. pag. 132. li. 38.  without intermission or obscuration; though his flesh, in which sin was condemned, and his body where he bore our sins, were subjecteth to most shameful and cruel torments f●…om the hands of the wicked: what uncoherence is there in those words, or what disagreement from the Scriptures? I saw the Lord always before me, said David concerning Christ. For he is at my right hand, that I should not be moved. If this beholding of God were 
b Sermon. p●…. 116 li. 25.  always, then was there no intermission; if before his face, than was there no obscuration. These are my words, which why you should dislike, or how you can refute, I do not see. You can touch nothing, which you one way or other turn not out of his right course. Firmness of faith, and assurance of hope I give unto Christ on the Cros●…e, and either of those bring with them inward joy of mind, how much soever our outward state be troubled, or our flesh afflicted. Neither are these such contraries as cannot stand together, since they are both in divers parts, and for divers respects. S. Peter saith, 
c 1. Peter 1.  we rejoice in the faith of salvation, though for a season we are in heaviness through manifold temptations. S. james saith, my 
d james 1.  brethren count it an exceeding joy, when ye fall into divers temptations. S. Paul saith, 
e Rom. 5.  we rejoice under the hope of the glory of God, neither so only, but also we rejoice in tribulation; knowing that tribulation bringeth forth p●…tience, (experience, and hope) which maketh not ashamed. Then as it is no absurdity, that the spirit should be ready, and the flesh weak, nor that the inward man should be renewed, when the outward man per●…sheth; no more is it any repugnancy, that Christ should have joy in the holy Ghost and in hope, when he found and felt exceeding affliction in his flesh; and as the Apostle teacheth, 
f Hebr. 12.  for the joy set before him, endured the cross and despised the shame (thereof.) If then there be joy in hope, how could Christ want joy, if he wanted not hope? and hope if you take from him, you leave him in despair, which is the loss of hope; which whether you will add to the rest of your unsound faith, I leave it to your choice. Notwithstanding yourself in this very book allow to Christ on the cross, and in his agony by reason of the very same words, (which I cite page 116.) not only 
g Defenc. pag. 110. li. 28. & 34.  constant and continual joy in God, but exceeding and general joy, with which whether your hell and perpetual extreme agony as well on the Cross as in the Garden may stand, I refer it to the sober and wise Reader.  

h Defenc. pag. 133. li. 3. & 1.  How vain is this consequent, how false are these sayings, and contrary to the Scripture in the circumstances that his astonishment must continue eighteen hours, from his entering into the garden to the ending of his life the next day at three of the clock afternoon.] Indeed it is most absurd, and openly repugnant to the Scriptures and to all the circumstances thereof, to defend that Christ's agony, which you say was the cause of his astonishment, or his astonishment, which was the effect thereof, continued on the Cross; and yet such is your error, that you make Christ's spiritual pains on the cross to be greater than in the Garden, and his astonishment to be less, because you do not find, that on the cross, where his pain was present and most sharp, he prayed aught against the known will of God, as you avouch he did in the Garden. Your supposing and presuming without all warrant of holy Scripture that God with his immediate hand inflicted the pains of the damned on the soul of Christ, 
i Defenc. pag. 133. li. 9 10.  sometimes more & sometimes less, and sometimes more suddenly then at other times, and sometimes staying it, and this variableness of God's hand to be the true cause of Christ's astonishment; is a saucy, senseless, and shifting imagination, aggravating, easing, and iterating God's hand at your pleasure; and yet such is the folly and f●…lshood of your doctrine, that without this desperate device every child would cry shame on you. For where on the Cross by your own confession Christ's mere spiritual pains most increased, even there his astonishment was none at all; and though you teach it not possible for Christ not to sink, and 
k Treat. pag. 54. li. 28.  not to be confounded under the burden, yet when he 
l Ibid. pag. 63. li. 15.  came to the greatest of his passion, than was he freest from all confusion, and so your hell pains by your leave were not the cause of Christ's astonishment, if any such thing were in him.  

m Defenc. pag. 133. li. 16.  I confess his extreme astonishment did ever quickly pass from him, yet the sense and taste of that cup might continue longer, in such a manner and measure as he was better able by his deity to sustain it. Now what ill is there in these conceits, I pray you, what folly is there in them?] As much as may be. For when you have sought heaven and earth, sea and land to bring Christ's soul within the compass of your hell-paines, and therewith to astonish and confound all the powers of his soul, and senses of his body; suddenly with the speaking of, (yet) you free him from it, and still return and remove it, as often as you list. And when you are urged, that hell pains continuing and increasiing on the cross by your doctrine, there was no manner of astonishment or confusion in Christ's reason or remembrance; you say the taste of the cup might continue. So that when the pains were less, than Christ did drink the cup, and when they were greatest, than he did but taste the cup. Thus play you the Tapster with Christ's torments, and set up the rest of your cause on this absurd conceit of Drinking and tasting the cup; which is not only dissonant from all truth, but repugnant to all sense. For if your hell pains were the true cause of Christ's astonishment, than the cause continuing, the effect could not cease; and the cause increasing, the effect could not diminish. Where you fly for help to Christ's deity, the better to enable him to sustain the pains of the damned without astonishment, you forget that if Christ would have used any divine power to resist or repress his pain, he might easily have suffered none. And weak you make Christ's godhead, if using it to that end, he could not save himself from confusion and forgetfulness; as also you put a conflict betwixt the Father and the Son, if he could not enable his manhood against astonishment, as well at one time as at another. Therefore this abusing Gods immediate hand to take memory from Christ, when you list, and thus pretending Christ's deity to keep him in the pains of hell, and yet to free him from forgetfulness, show right on what foundation you b●…ild the whole plat of your doctrine, even on your own fancies, without all direction or instruction from the sacred Scriptures, which have not one word more or less, touching these devices of yours in so weighty causes of our redemption.  

n Defenc. pag. 134. li. 1.  How you seem to avouch, that Christ was by God forsaken in body, but not in soul, le●… them declare that can. I am sure no man can in truth maintain it.] It is more easily maintained then refuted. To be forsaken, is to be deprived of all sense and fruition of the power and life, that is in God, and cometh from God. Thus Christ's body was forsaken for the time, & left to death, which is contrary to life, wherewith God quickened man here on earth. But the soul of Christ was never forsaken of hi●… life which was the grace and spirit of God, whereby the soul is quickened. As for wresting Ambro●…e, as I did Hilary, show first wherein, and then spare not to speak it. Otherwise your censure hath so much partiality, and so little probability, that your Reader after so many fails will not now depend on your single say.  

o Defenc. pag. 134. li. 5.  After this you are bold, and ask if any dare doubt of your doctrine? yea surely I dar●… not but doubt of it.] What dare you not do, who dare device a new faith without all precedence of the holy Scriptures, and take upon you to guide and rule Gods immediate hand, as seemeth best to your liking. In our conformity to Christ's sufferings I observed two things out of the word of God: one, that we have fellowship with Christ's afflictions and follow his steps; the other that we must rejoice in communicating with his sufferings. Neither of which can generally and justly be verified of your hellish confusion and torments. For must we be all confounded in all the powers of our souls and senses of our bodies, and must we forget Gods known will through astonishment, and pray against it, before we can follow Christ's steps? this must be your doctrine, as also that we must rejoice in this shrincking from the will of God, and praying against it, because the holy Ghost willeth us to rejoice, when we communicate with Christ's sufferings. [
p 〈◊〉 li. 15.  Some are conformable in some measure with Christ even in these his sufferings.] Not only some may, but all must be conformed to Christ their head to suffer with him, before they shall reign with him. So that as Christ said to james and john, 
q Matth. 20.  Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptised with the baptism, that I am baptised with, So he performeth to all true believers. Whosoever, saith he, 
r Luke 14.  beareth not his cross, and cometh after me, cannot be my Disciple. And where to my allegation, that we must rejoice in the fellowship of Christ's afflictions, you answer; 
s Defenc. pag. 134. li. 17.  We ought to turn them to joy and gladness, though not properly to be glad in them, This is but an evasion. I commend not affliction, because it is grievous to nature, but for the use and reward thereof, and partaking therein with Christ. And if we are therein to rejoice, as you now confess, 
t li. 22.  even when we are most bruised & pierced in our souls with the terrors of God, Then I hope our Saviour Christ in the midst of all his sufferings had the same joy, which we must have; and consequently I had reason and truth on my side, when I said 
u Pag. 132. li. 36.  Christ on the Cross had always persistence in joy, which you then impugned, and now do grant against your will. And if your credit were aught worth, I say not in this so much as you do. For you ascribe to Christ on the cross, 
x Pag. 110. li. 28. & 34.  constant and continual joy in God, yea exceeding and general joy, and yet you think it much that I should affirm, that the Scriptures attribute to Christ persistence of joy on the cross how bitter or grievous soever the shame and pain thereof were unto his flesh.  

y Defenc. pag. 134. li. 24.  You frame an objection to yourself, which you neither do nor can answer: Christ's soul might feel the torments of hell for the time without any distrust or doubting of his salvation or our redemption.] I answered you, which you shall never avoid, first that the true pains of hell by the sacred Scriptures, are not temporal, but eternal. You tell us you have showed 
z Defenc. pag. 134. li. 33.  Eternal continuance in hell pains is not of the essence or nature of hell torm●…nts. So have you said page: 12. though page: 53. as you often quote it, there is no such thing: but even there also have I showed, that this you say out of your own brain, the Scriptures affirm no such thing. Secondly, I answered you, that the horror of the pains of the damn●…d did admit no joy; for in hell I hope there is no joy. Christ then by your own doctrine having constant, continual, exceeding, & general joy, was neither in the true pains, nor in the true terrors of hell, unless in defence of your devices you will now make your new heaven, and your new hell to be all one. For joy in the holy Ghost you directly make to be the substance of heavenly bli●…ie. Now if in Christ and all his members you put at one and the same time, the true terrors of hell, and the true joy of the holy Ghost, what miss you of mixing heaven and hell at one instant in Christ and all the faithful. A third reply I gave in that very place to this objection, which you say, I neither do, nor can answer; and that was, 
a Serm. pag. 135. li. 3.  since it is no where witnessed in the Scriptures, that Christ suffered the pains of hell, why strive you to establish a mere conceit of men, neither written, nor spoken before our age? All these are no answers with you, and only because you have deviced a new hell from the immediate hand of God, with which you delude, as your manner is, all that the Scriptures speak of the pains of the damned. But glory not in your device; to invent a new faith, it is as much sin, as to renounce the true Christian faith, which indeed is ancient, and in substance as old as the Scriptures, since they serve to testify from the beginning God's blessed will and promise of salvation unto man through the death of Christ, which God first named the Serpents biting the heel of the woman's ●…eed.  

b Defenc. pag. 135. li.  After this you set v●…hemently against my last argument that Christ suffered not in some sort the death of the soul; first if we should speak strictly after the manner of death in the body, than no man is so mad or foolish as to say that any man's soul can die at all, that is, want life and sense as a dead body doth.] You be come now to the upshot of all your defence and doctrine, whether the Scriptures do any where teach, that Christ died the death of the soul, or the second death for our redmption: and here shall we find nothing but an heap of words broached out of your brains, and so tempered with your conceits, that when you have all said, you say nothing with any substance or show of holy Scripture. You disclaim, that the soul is at any time devoid of life and sense, as dead bodies are, as if that were aught to your purpose; but yet the death of the soul hath a resemblance and concordance with the death of the body, as spiritual things may have with corporal. And therefore as the body being once dead wanteth all sense and motion, which are the parts or effects of life from the soul quickening the body, so the soul being dead to God, who is her life, hath no sense nor motion of God's grace in this life, nor sight nor hope of glory in the life to come, but destitute of the one here  
on earth, which is grace, hath no desire nor feeling of God, and in the next world deprived of all possibility of glory, is subjecteth to eternal and intolerable misery from the presence of God.  

d Defenc. pag. 135. li. 24.  Such a death as immortal souls are subject unto is God's separation from them, & this is two fold; the first death, and the second death, as the Scripture speaketh. The first is the separation of them from God's grace, which is in this life by sin reigning in them]. The soul loaden with sin in this life, is not utterly dead, so long as it retaineth any sense or motion of God's grace. So that sorrow for sin joined with any desire of true repentance is a plain sign of life in the soul, though sorrow for sin without hope be plain despair and death of the soul. And therefore the soul of man finding the danger of sin, and desiring to be delivered from it, yet liveth whiles she apprehendeth, affecteth, or seeketh the grace of God; but if she want all sense of God by faith, and motion to God by hope and desire, she is wholly dead to God, that is void of the life of God, which is derived from God unto the souls of men. As for the second death of the soul, the Scriptures indeed speak thereof, but you err groslely in this second death, the execution whereof always followeth the first death as well of the body as of the soul, though the guiltiness and condemnation thereof by a man's own conscience may be found here in this life. And therefore the second death by the open and evident words of the holy Ghost is called the 
d revel. 20.  lake of fire, or the 
e 19 & 21.  lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is not in this life. And consequently your next collection, that the second death is Gods leaving them in the feeling of the most sharp and most vehement pains inflicted by God's justice for sin, is as false, as it is defective, not agreeing in one word with the tenor of the sacred Scriptures, which you pretend to follow.  

f Defenc. pag. 1●…5. li. 30.  This last kind of death is so called and named in many places of Scripture.] The second death is expressly named, but in four places of the Scripture. The first, 
g revel. 2. v. 11  Be thou faithful to death, and I will give thee the crown of life. He that overcometh (the first death) shall not be hurt of the second death. The second, 
h revel. 20. v. 6  blessed and holy is he, that hath part in first resurrection (of the soul unto the life of grace) on such THE SECOND DEATH hath no power. The third, 
i Ibid. v. 14.  Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH. The fourth, 
k revel. 21. v. 8  The fearful & unbelieving, the abominable and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake, that burneth with fire and brimstone, WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH. Save in these places the second death is never expressly named in the Scriptures; and in these most apparently the second death followeth after the death of the body, and is everlasting. And neither on Christ, who is the first resurrection unto grace, and the second resurrection unto glory; nor on any of his members hath the second death any power by the plain words of Saint john. So that all your platform is quite overthrown by the direct words of the Apostle, freeing Christ and all his elect even in this life from all power of the second death. And therefore you set yourself in this section evidently to confront the holy Ghost, when you seek to prove that Christ suffered the second death of the soul, as the Scripture speaketh. And besides the Scriptures, if you talk of second deaths, you may as well tell us tales of a new world, as of an other word without the witness of God's spirit. But you have found out many places of Scripture, where this last kind of death is so called and named.] Eight you quote by the side in your margin, but take not the pains to discuss one of them, only you pronounce after your stately manner, that those places of Scripture prove that, which you mean to be the death of the soul. Now what if not one of them speak any such thing? is not your Reader sure to find you a true man of your word, when you quote eight places, and not one of them to your purpose? but this is your perpetual course, to mistake and misuse Scriptures at your pleasure, and then to say you have sound proved it. On the contrary I affirm that none of these places intent any such thing, as you imagine of your terrestial and temporal hell, but they exactly conclude against you, that damnation is eternal, and no death of the soul, which is not everlasting, is expressed or intended in any of those Scriptures; or in any other, that you or your friends are able to pick out. And though it may suffice me as well to say nay, as you to say yea, yet for the Readers better resolution I will not be grieved to run through all these places, as much as shallbe needful.  
The first is, 
l Ezech. 18. ver. 4.  the soul that ●…inneth, it shall die. These words may signify either subtraction of grace in this life, which is consequent to sin in the wicked, or exclusion 
Eight places of Scripture abused for the temporal death of Christ's soul●….  from glory in the next world, which is the just and full wages of sin. But that every soul, which sinneth, hath felt, or shall feel in this life your temporal hell or the pains of the damned, this is a gross error to be fathered on those words, and repugnant not only to the truth of this text, but even to the sense and experience of all the Godly, and such as yourself dare not avouch, since you qualify your conceit in that behalf with these words, that 
m Defenc. pag. 134. li. 15.  some in some measure are conformed with Christ in these his sufferings. But if God by Ezechiel meant your earthly hell, then absolutely all men, children not excepted, must feel in this life pains equal with the damned, for so much as they have sinned, and deserved everlasting damnation.  
The second is the commination, that God made to Adam, 
n Genes. 2. ver. 17.  Whensoever thou ●…atest thereof, thou shalt die the death, (or) surely thou shalt die. Here are all sorts of deaths threatened, but not to be executed either on all men, nor in this present life; God reserving to himself power and liberty to dispose of all men's souls according to his determinate counsel, though they should all be guilty and liable to all kinds of death by virtue of those words upon the transgression of the first man. This exposition the Apostle giveth when he saith, 
o Rom. 5.  The offence of one (came) on all men to condemnation, which is the verifying of these words, that all men died in Adam, to wit, were subject to death, not only by dying the death of the body, which is appointed for all men, but to the guiltiness of everlasting death not executed on all, though deserved by all.  
The third, which is the 
p Rom. 6.  Apostles conclusion, is either generally meant of all kinds of death, which came in by sin, as the rewards and punishments thereof, and then it is nothing to your intention; or else it expresseth the full wages of sin to be everlasting death by opposition to eternal life mentioned in the next words following. For eternal life is the gift of God, as (eternal) death is the wages, (that is both the desert and repayment) of sin. Take which you will, either the general or special construction of death, it is no way pertinent to your purpose.  
Less is the fourth, that the Apostles were the 
q 2. Cor. 2. vers. 16.  savour of death unto death in them, that perished, as they were the savour of life unto life in them, that were saved. For the preaching of the Gospel, which the Apostle meaneth in that place, doth not proclaim a terrestial or temporal heaven to them that believe in Christ, but life eternal; and consequently neither doth it denounce a temporal death to them, which refuse Christ, but everlasting death. And therefore there can be nothing more absurd then to convert these places to the proof of your temporal hell; for so you should do the reprobate a very good turn, if you could show, that the death threatened them for not believing in Christ, were to dure but for a time, or in this life only, where your new found hell hath power and place, and no where else.  
With like success you note for your fifth, that the 
r 2 Cor. 3. vers. 7.  ministration of death was glorious, the Apostle so calling the law, because it denounced death not temporal, but eternal to all transgessours. So that if the full wages of sin be eternal death by the word of God, then did the law not denounce a temporal death due to all men by course of nature, be they good or bad, (though even that at first entered as a part of the punishment of sin) but everlasting death, which is the second death, is reserved, as S. john writeth, for all sorts of sinners and liars.  
Saint james is the sixth, who saith, 
s james 5.  He that converteth a sinner (erring from the truth) shall save a soul from death. If a man converted shall be saved from your temporal hell, which you here would intend by the death of the soul, then much more the Converter and he that never erred from the truth shall be free from your hell; and consequently Christ was most free, who was truth itself, and never erred. But as truth is the way to everlasting life, and freeth men from all bondage of sin and Satan, so error and infidelity have another manner of death than your terrestial hell, which you make common to Christ and some of his members; and he that is converted from error or sin shall be saved from everlasting perdition, which indeed is the death of the soul depriving it of all bliss and joy for ever.  
The seventh and eight you take out of Saint john, who saith, 
t 1. joh. 5. vers. 16, 17.  There is sin unto death, for which we must not pray: But whosoever is borne of God, sinneth not that sin; and so neither Christ, who was the true Son of God, nor any of his chosen, who are the children of God by adoption, can sin that sin, nor die that death, because he that is begotten of God, liveth by God, who is eternal life to all that know him, and cleave unto him without separation. If then the sins of the Elect be not unto death, but such as we in piety may, and in charity must pray for; consequently the death of the soul here meant by Saint john, is such as is not incident to any of the sons of God, and so not the temporal hell, which you communicate to Christ and his members.  
here are your eight places of Scriptures proving (as you pretend) the second death of the soul, which you ascribe to Christ, in every one of which, save the first and second, there can be no question, but everlasting damnation is intended, and in those two the guiltiness of eternal death, which is due to sin, may be comprised in the name of death; which the Apostle justifieth, when he saith, 
t Rom. 5. v. 12.  The offence of one (came) on all men unto condemnation, which is in effect that he said before, Death went over all men, forasmuch as all men have sinned. But that any of these intent your temporal hell brought into this life not by snares and fears working on the souls of men, but by substance and essence; and not eternal death in hell fire with the Devil and his Angels, you nor all your adherents shall ever be able by any ground of holy Scripture to make it appear. And therefore your presuming it upon the bare show of places concluding no such thing, is a pestilent intrusion upon the word of God, whiles you stick not to couple your conceits, which are false and erroneous, with his undoubted and undefiled truth.  

x Defenc. pag. 135. li. 31.  First ordinarily and commonly it belongeth only to the damned, wherewithal are the ordinary accidents and concomitants desperation, induration, utter darkness etc. with perpetuity of punishment, and that locally in HELL.] Generally and truly the Scriptures never use the name of the second death, but for the lake burning with everlasting fire, into which the Devil and all the Reprobate shall be cast, and whatsoever you otherwise pretend, is your own absurd device without the Scriptures, and against the Scriptures, to keep your doctrine from open derision and detestation. And since yourself acknowledge, that this is the ordinary and usual doctrine of the Scriptures, it shallbe needful for your Reader to hold you to that, till you fully prove your extraordinary device by the same Scriptures, by which the other is evidenly confirmed, and so much openly confessed by you.  

y Defenc. pag. 135. li. 36.  In this sense the Fathers generally do take it, where they deny that Christ suffered the death of the soul: and so do we.] If your cause have so little hold in the Scriptures, it hath less in the Fathers, who in the necessary work of our redemption thought it sacrilege to say any thing that was not apparently proved by the Scriptures. And as you light not on a true word, when you come to deliver us the mysteries of your new hell, so this is patently false, that the Fathers generally take the death of the soul for eternal damnation only, when they deny that Christ died the death of the soul. They speak as the Scriptures lead them, and confessing two deaths of the soul as the Scriptures do, which are sin excluding all grace, and the wages of sin even everlasting damnation; they generally deny that Christ died any death of the soul, and have for confirmation of their doctrine therein, the whole course of the sacred Scriptures concurring with them.  

x Defenc. pag. 135. li. 37.  Secondly, the death of the soul, or the second death, may be extraordinarily and singularly considered, namely to imply no more but simply the very nature and essence of it.] You broach two apparent and evident untruths, which you make the whole foundation of your presumptuous error. First, that either Christ or his Elect in this life did or do suffer the very nature and essence of the second death. Next, that the Scriptures do singularly and extraordinarily reserve that kind of second death for Christ and his members. Show either of these by the word of God, before you make them grounds of your doctrine, or else any mean Reader may soon conceive you mean to teach no truth confirmed in the Scriptures, but a bold and false device of your own, which you would extraordinarily intrude upon the word of God.  

a Defenc. pag. 136. li. 5.  This is a death to the soul, as before we have showed: according to this sense the Scriptures and Fathers before noted may rightly be understood not to deny it in Christ] When you glanced before at the death of Christ's soul, you prayed us to have patience, 
When the Defender shou●…d prove the death of Christ's soul, he sayeth be h●…th proved it already.  till you came to the place, where we should receive a reasonable satisfaction; and now you are come to the place, where you should make just and full proof thereof, you send us back again, and say you have showed it before. What meaneth this doubling and deceiving of your Reader, but that you would seem to have many proofs, when indeed you have none? and therefore you post us to and fro, to seek for that we shall never find. In the 113. Page of this Defence, you went about by your miserable misconstruing of certain words used by some of the Fathers to enforce a show of a death on the soul of Christ; but against the hair, as there I have proved: and therefore stand not on your former unfortunate adventures, but either here make proof by the Scriptures, that Christ died the death of the soul, or leave prating and publishing it so confidently as you and your adherents do for the chief part of man's redemption. [The Scriptures and Fathers, you say, before noted, may rightly be understood not to deny it in Christ] Is this all you have to say for the death of Christ's soul, that the Scriptures and Fathers may be understood not to deny it? The Scriptures must affirm it, before you can make it any point of Christian religion, or part of our reconciliation to God. 
b Rom. 10.  Faith (is) by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; and not by not denying. If that be your course, to put any thing to the Creed which you list to say the Scriptures do not deny, you may quickly have a large Creed, containing all things which the Scriptures, abused with your figures and wrested to your fancies, shall not in express words, as you think, deny.  

c Defenc. pag. 136. li. 9  Moreover, let it be observed: that if we had no proofs at all in Scripture for this point, yet our question is fully proved and confirmed by those other sufficient and pregnant proofs alleged and justified before.] Your palpable and pregnant follies are sufficiently seen before: your proofs were none but bald and false presumptions, conceived by yourself, though otherwise void of all reason and authority: with such props you have hitherto supported your Defence, and now you be come to the main issue, whether the Scriptures or Fathers do teach, that Christ for our redemption died the death of the soul, or the death of the damned, which is the second death, you would pass it over as a matter of no moment, and here tell us if you had no such proof (as indeed you have none) yet you have played your part before, which was to set a good face on an evil cause, and to prove just nothing.  

d Defenc. pag 136. li. 13.  For it is to be noted, that no man setteth the question in these terms that Christ died in his soul, neither do we at all use them very much in speaking of this matter.] The Scriptures themselves set that for the question. First of all, I 
e 1. Cor. 15.  delivered unto you (sayeth Paul) that which I received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. Since than 
f Rom. 5.  we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son; and Christ is the 
g Hebr: 9  Mediator of the New Testament, through death for the redemption of the transgressions in the former Testament; and where a Testament is, there must be the death of him that made the Testament. The question riseth of itself what death the Son of God died for our sins, by the witness of holy Scripture. And hitherto for these fifteen hundred years and upward the Christian world, both of learned and unlearned, hath believed that the Son of God by the death of his body on the tree ransomed our sins, reconciled us to God, and utterly destroyed the kingdom of Satan; and that he neither did nor could suffer any other kind of death, as the death of the soul, or the  
So that the reference of the Apostles words standeth thus; he offered up prayers and supplications with strong cries and tears to him that was able to save him from (all touch of death) and was heard (in that he prayed for,) and though he were the son, and god was able to keep him untouched of death, that is, to make him the Saviour of the world without tasting any kind of death, yet such was God's counsel and his own liking, that he learned (or performed) the obedience of a son by the things which he suffered. Whereby the Apostle teacheth us, it was neither want of power in God, that Christ died, for God was able to have saved the world by him without his death, neither was it lack of favour towards his son, for God HEARD him in that he asked; but to manifest in his person the perfect submission of a son to his father, God would have him obedient to death, even unto the death of the cross; and so make him the author of eternal salvation to all that obey him, As he obeyed God his Father. Those words then, Christ offered prayers to him that was able to keep him from death, prove not death to be the cause of Christ's fear, nor the scaping therefrom to be the scope of Christ's strong cries and tears; but the Apostle thereby noteth that Christ neither doubted of his Father's power nor love, when he prayed so earnestly unto him, but was assured of both, and enjoyed both in such sort as might best stand with the honour and wisdom of God the father, and of Christ his son. And therefore all your collections and illations built on that false ground do●… fall of themselves, as having nothing to support them but your idle and vain supposals.  

a Defenc. pag. 137. li. 6.  Your own self do fully grant and affirm it with me; yea you affirm farther than we do, or then the truth is or possibly can be, you say Christ he●…re thus feared eternal death, and everlasting damnation.] I must take no ●…corne to have you wrest and wring my words to a contrary sense, when you offer that course to the Apostles words. The place which you quote for proof of my meaning will convince you to be a malicious falsifier. My words a man would think are plain enough, and my exposition of that speech used by some men, is such that no man of any intelligence or conscience would so grossly pervert it. Thus I say pag: 23. 
b Serm. pag. 23. li. 4.  Distrust of his own salvation or doubt of God's displeasure against himself, we cannot so much as imagine in Christ, without evident want of grace, and loss of faith, which we may not attribute to Christ's person no not for an instant. And again, 
c Ibid. li. 17.  I refrain to speak, what wrong it is to put either doubtfuln●…sse, or forgetfulness of these things in part of Christ's human nature. And to the question thereon demanded, 
d li. 20.  Why then did he pray, that the cup might pass from him?] I answer, he had no need to pray for himself, but only for us, who then suffered with him, and in him. What learning I cannot say, but what lewdness is this, to father that on me, which I fully forsake; and still to press me with that, which I so often prevent and repel? I did not intend in my Sermons to note any by name, nor sharply to censure their sayings; but repeating as much as I saw, I gave the best construction or mitigation to their words, that any truth would endure. Where then some men (whom by your importunity you have urged me to name) as the Catechism of master Nowell, which you would seem so much to reverence, in plain words avoucheth, that Christ was 
e Pag. 280.  〈◊〉 mortis horrore perfusus; perfused or plunged with the horror of et●…rnall death; And master Calvin saith, 
f Institutione li. 2. ca 16. sect. 10.  Oportuit 〈◊〉 cum inferorum copijs 〈◊〉 mortis horrore quasi consertis manibus luctari; Christ was to wr●…si ●…ith the powers of hell and with the horror of eternal death, as it were hand to hand; Their words, suppressing their names, I there taught might be tolerated, if we took horror for a religious fear only trembling at the terror of hell, and praying against it, or did attribute that trembling and fear of eternal death to Christ in respect and compassion of us, that were his members, and whom he joined and reckoned in his sufferings for us, as one person or body with him. Which moderation of mine you every where conceal, and make your Reader believe, that I fully grant and affirm that, which I expressly deny. And not content therewith, you interlace my words with your lewd additions, as if I said, Christ thus feared eternal death; You mean with strong cries and tears, and with a bloody sweat; where I referred his earnest cries and tears to one purpose, and his fear to another; yielding to Christ a religious fear to decline the force of hell, and a careful prayer against the power of hell by the example of David; who describing the passion of Christ in the 22 Psalm, saith expressly of his person and in his person, 
g Psal. 22.  They pierced mine hands, and my feet, they part my garments among them, and cast lots on my vesture. But be not thou far of, O Lord my strength, hast thee to help me. Deliver my soul from the sword; my deso●…ate (soul) from the power of the Dog, sau●… me from the Lion's mouth, and answer me (or protect me) from the horns of the Unicorn; praying in this place not against any man, but against Satan the author and upholder of all mischief.  

h Defenc. pag. 137. li. 10.  Christ could not possibly fear in such woeful manner that, which he perfectly knew should never come near him: but he perfectly knew that eternal death and the cup of God's everlasting malediction should never touch him. Therefore he could not by any means pray in such sort against it.] You refute yourself, and not any thing which I affirmed. That Christ prayed against the power and rage of hell and Satan, is plain by David's words, that he prayed in such woeful manner, are not my words, but yours. And yet this proposition, that Christ prayed for nothing, which he perfectly knew was God's almighty and unchangeable decree, is not true. For Christ was most assured and most certainly knew of all things, whatsoever were decreed and appointed by God for himself; and yet he prayed for many things, not as doubting of them, but as confessing whence he must, and did receive them. He perfectly knew he should be glorified with the glory which he had with his Father before the world was; and yet 
i john 17.  he prayed for it. In the former words of David Christ perfectly knew, that God would save and deliver his soul from the Lion's mouth, from the power of the Dog, and from the horns of the Unicorn, and yet he earnestly prayeth for it. Christ's prayers than do not prove that he feared the contrary to his petition, but that he was assured to obtain, and by prayer professed whence it came whatsoever he had, even from his Father. The next assertion, which you make, is a direct contradiction to yourself, and not to me. For if Christ in those vehement prayers had such exact and perfect knowledge of God's counsel and love, as here you avouch, than was Christ in no such confusion and forgetfulness, as you put him in at the time of his agony to save him from sin. And where not four leaves before, you made a shameful shift to rescue yourself from a plain contradiction, and bobbed your Reader with a manifest fitten, that I did you wrong, 
k Defenc. pag. 129.  You did argue from my supposition, that Christ was not astonished at the time of his prayers in the garden, but in his perfect memory (which I seemed to affirm, and you denied) a man may here perceive, that you want wit to see what hangeth together in your own tale, or that your memory is very short to relapse so soon to the clear crossing of yourself again. For here you positively, frequently, and earnestly affirm that in his prayers Christ 
m 11.  perfectly knew and saw 
l Defenc. pag. 137. li. 18.  what was ordained by God for him, and 
n 12.  that the cup of God's eternal malediction should never touch him.] So brickle are your brains, that you eagerly and openly say and unsay in the space of four leaves; and reverse your own positions, wherein the Reader if he be wise, will see you more 
13.  constant, before he credit you.  

o Defenc. pag. 137. li. 17.  Again that which he feared and so pitifully prayed against, was that which he knew was by God ordained for him. Yea fear is always of that which is to come, but eternal death was not by God orde●…ned for him, that was not to come upon him (which Christ 
p In the marg●…ne.  knew right well.) Therefore it was not eternal death which he so feared.] Your reasons be like rotten re●…ters that when you would push forward, recuyle on your head. Out of the Apostles text the 5. to the Hebrews, you draw a mayor directly against the Apostles words. For he saith, Christ was heard in that he FEARED, (supposing that as yet to be the sense of the last word;) you say, he was not heard, but knew that which he feared to be ordained of God for him, and not to be avoided. So skilful you are, that out of the Scriptures, you frame as●…ertions expressly repugnant to the Scriptures, and yet you fancy them to be invincible arguments. Wherefore the Apostle denieth your first proposition, That what soever Christ prayed against, was ordained of God for him, And if his authority be not currant with you, Christ himself assureth you, it is false. His own words are, against which I hope you will not open your mouth; 
q 〈◊〉 11.  Father I know tho●… he arrest me always. If Christ were always heard in his prayers, then that which he prayed against, was not ordained of God for him. For God did not alter or innovate the things ordained for his son; neither would Christ have so strongly prayed against them, if he had known them to be ordained of God for him. So that here you are as sound as in the rest, broaching still your own fancies without any warrant besides your own, which is grounded on false and absurd positions, you taking no care what you say, no●… heed what you should prove.  
For who besides you would flaunt this out for a foundation of his cause, 
r pag. 〈◊〉; 7. li. 19  fear is alw●…ies of that which is to come? Where if you mean certainly and infalliblely to come, (as you must, otherwise it proveth nothing) the proposition is generally true neither in the wicked, nor in the godly, and least of all in Christ himself. The wicked do fear many things, that fall not on them, yea they often fear, as David saith, 
s Psal. 53.  where no fear is. The godly by fearing before hand, what may come; do often prevent the coming of it. Mary was 
t Luc. 1.  afraid at the sight of the Angel, that saluted her, and yet brought he a great blessing to her. Peter walking on the water, was 
u Mat. 14.  afraid, when he saw a mighty wind, and began to sink, but Christ presently reached forth his hand, and rebuked him for doubting. The Disciples were 
x Luc. 24.  abashed and afraid at the sudden presence of there master in the midst of them, and yet no evil was towards them. So that fear may grow as well from appearance, and opinion, when no hurt is imminent, as from the certainty of evil present, or coming. Christ taught all his Disciples to fear him, even God; 
y Luc. 12.  who after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell. Shall we thence infer by your divinity, that God will cast all the faithful into hell, because he hath power so to do, which they must fear? 
z Philip. 2▪.  Finish your salvation with fear and trembling, saith the Apostle. Shall we therefore never be saved, because we must always tremble and fear under the mighty hand of God? Under the same hand of God might Christ fear and tremble, not doubting of his salvation, nor distrusting his Father's love, but knowing that the hand of God was Almighty, and able to impose far greater pain on his body then his human flesh was able to bear. It is therefore due to God's power from all the faithful, and was likewise from Christ's manhood, for men to be afraid of the strength of God's hand, when he ariseth to punish sin, though when and how he will do it, we may not, or cannot determine. And if we should grant, that Christ's flesh even thus feared the power of God's hand, that was able to keep him from death, and to inflict what pain pleased him, you are no whit the nearer to your new found hell, or to your second death of Christ's soul, which you labour to derive from these words of the Apostle to the Hebrews.  
But to let the reader see, how rashly & rudely you conclude, what you list, out of the Apostles words without any sure ground. The word, which all this while you have taken to import a coufused and perplexed fear in Christ, hath no such signification in the Greek tongue; and in this place of the Apostle, by the judgement of the ancient and best learned interpreters of all ages, that are not infected with this new fancy, is taken for reverence, or a religious fear of God. Of which signification there can be no question with any man, that is meanly learned. And albeit some favouring your fancy, have seek far and near for examples, where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 might signify a painful and amazing fear, yet find they none, neither in profane nor sacred writers, but only a careful fear to decline evil, or a religious fear honouring God, to be the true force of that word. How profane men use the word, (with that I have elsewhere said) this may suffice. Diogenes Laertius delivering the decrees and opinions of the best philosophers, saith of them: they affirm, 
a 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. i. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; that (〈◊〉) carefulness is contrary to fear, as being an honest and reasonable declination of evil: (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) and that a wise man is ne●…er amazed with fear, but wary to decline evil. Saint jerom confesseth as much among Christians. 
b 〈◊〉 li 3 〈◊〉 5. ●…pist ●…d. 〈◊〉.  He that feareth, hath pai●…e, and is not perfect. According to which signification of fear, servants have the spirit of bondage in fear. There is another kind of fear named by the Philosophers, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and with us it may be called 〈◊〉, though this do not fully match the force of the word. The Prophet (David) knew t●…e 〈◊〉 of the perfect, when he said, nothing wanteth to them that fear the Lord. Of Simeon, that took Christ in his arms, when he was brought to the Temple, by his mother, Saint Luke saith, he was a just man, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and one that religiously feared God. So of those 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 2.  that buried Steven the Martyr, he saith; 
d 〈◊〉 8.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, certain m●…n F●…ARING GOD carried Steven to be buried. And in the twelfth of this Epistle, the same Apostle useth the very word which he applied before to Christ, for the common duty of all the godly. 
e Hebr. 12.  Let us have grace, by which we may serve and please God with reverence, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and a religious fear. Which is M. 
f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. in 12. ca epistol●… ad Hebreos.  beza's own interpretation of that place, howsoever he serve from it in the form●…r words of the same Epistle. Neither doth the Syriack translation any thing help him, since the word dechalta, which in the fifth Chapter is affirmed of Christ, in the 12. Chapter of the same Epistle, and indivers other places of the new Testament is by the same translator referred to all Christians, as expressing a general duty belonging to God. And therefore there is no need, why any man should translate the one otherwise than he doth the other; specially the whole Greek and Latin Church, concurring in one and the same signification and exposition of the word; which is a better precedent to follow, than any one man's translation.  
And where some others would take advantage of the Greek preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifi●…th for, as well as from.  signifying always from, and not for; it is an evident oversight in them, abusing their skill to maintain their will, more than truth enforceth. For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the new Testament, and with the Septuagint noteth usually as well for, as from. In the 14. of Saint Matthewes Gospel, when the disciples saw Christ walking on the waters at the fourth watch of the night, and approaching the ship wherein they were; they cried 
g Matth. 14. vers. 26.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for fear. The soldiers likewise, that kept the Sepulchre, when they saw the Angel, that rolled away the stone, and sat on it, they were 
h Matth. 28. verse. 〈◊〉.  astonished 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for fear, and became as dead men. Zacheus by reason of his low stature could not see jesus, 
i Luc. 19 v. 3.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the multitude, or press that was about him. The Apostles that cast thei●… net into the sea at Christ's commandment, could not draw it, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the number 
k joh 21. v. 6.  of fishes, that were in the net. Paul reporting the manner of his conversion, how he was strooken to the ground with a great light, that suddenly shined on him from heaven, saith; When I could not see 
l Acts 22. ver.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because of the glory of that light, I was led by the hand to Damascus. The S●…ptuagint in many places use the same proposition in the same sense; Israel's eyes were dim 
m Gen. 48. v. 14  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for age. My bones (saith job) are dry 
n job. 30. v. 30  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for heat. You shall cry 
o Esa. 65. v. 14.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, for grief of heart, and howl 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for affliction of spirit, saith Esay of the jews rejected. Where the Septuagint do make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 equivalent to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with an accusati●…e, which noteth the cause of any thing. Infinite are the examples, that might be brought out of sacred and profane writers for farther proof hereof, but these are enough to show, that Chrysostom, Photius, Oecumenius, Theophylactus, and other Grecians commenting on those words of the Apostle, did not forget the propriety of their own tongue, when they expounded this text as declaring, that Christ was heard for the reverend respect of God to his son, or for the religious submission of the son to his Father: and the Latin Fathers jerom, Ambrose, Primasius, Sedulius, Bede, Haymo and others following the same translation did not err of ignorance, but duly considered the nature and force of the Apostles words. Where then you have made us a stout conclusion, that Christ thus fearing could fear nothing but the death of the soul, or the second death, you cannot justly prove by any words here used, that Christ had any fear, much less such a fear as you imagine; though I may safely grant a fear, and such a fear, as the Scriptures describe or express of Christ, and you nothing the nearer to your presumptuous conceit.  
Now if we give ear to the ancient Fathers discussing this place, your device hath neither strength nor stay in these words. 
p Ambros. in 5. ca epistolae ad Hebreos.  Beatus Paulus hic dicit preces cum et supplicationes fundere non timore mortis, sed nostrae causa salutis. unde & in alio loco dicit sanguinem Christi melius clamasse pro nobis quam sanguinem Abel. Blessed Paul here saith, (as Ambrose writeth) that Christ offered prayers and supplications, not for any fear of (his own) death, but for the cause of our salvation. Whereupon in another place (Paul) saith, the blood of Christ cried better things for us, than the blood of Abel. And again, 
q Ibidem.  Totum quicquid egit Christus in carne, preces sunt & supplicationes propeccatis humani generi●…. All whatsoever Christ did in the flesh, were prayers and supplications for the sins of mankind. So saith Primasius. 
r 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad He●…reos.  All that Christ did in the flesh, were prayers and supplications for the sins of mankind: and the sacred shedding of his blood was a strong cry, in which he was heard of God his Father: for his reverence] That is, for his voluntary obedience, and most perfect charity. 
s Ibidem.  Christ here is said to have powered forth prayers and supplications, not for fear of death, but rather in the 〈◊〉 our salvation. And we must note, that reverence, as Cassiodorus saith, is taken sometimes for love, and sometimes for fear: but here it is put for the exceeding love wherewith the Son of God embraced us, and for the perfect obedience, whereby he was subject to his Father even unto death. So Sedulius: 
t 〈◊〉 in 5. ca 〈◊〉 ad Hebreos.  Christ prayed with tears] not soed for fear of death, but for our salvation, and was heard] of God the Father, when the Angel did comfort him. For his reverence] either his with his fathers, or his fathers towards him. Haymo treadeth in the same steps with Primasius. 
u 〈◊〉 in 5. ca 〈◊〉 ad Hebr●…os.  The Apostle speaketh this of Christ meaning plainly to express, what our high Priest ●…id in his Priesthood. What is, in the days of his fl●…sh?] as long as he dw●…lt in this mortal body, he offered up prayers and supplications with strong cries and tears to God his father. All that Christ did in the flesh, were 〈◊〉 and supplications for the sins of mankind, and the sacred shedding of his blood was a strong cry, 〈◊〉 herein he was heard of God his Father for his reverence, that is for his voluntary 〈◊〉 and most perfect charity. God heard him in raising him up the third day, as the Psalmist saith, thou wilt not suffer thine holy one to see corruption. If then the Apostles purpose were to note (as these Fathers affirm) that Christ all the time of his conversing here with men showed himself our high Priest with strong cries and tears for us to God, that was able to save him and his members from death, or to raise him again from death as conqueror thereof, and was heard for his religious obedience and love to God and man; what show hath the death of Christ's soul in these words, or what sequence from them?  
Neither is there any part of this exposition; that wanteth good warrant from the Scriptures, and likewise allowance from the fathers. For b●…sides that Christ said to Paul as yet a persecutor, 
x Acts 9  Saul, Saul why persecutest thou me, not in person but in members; the Apostle setteth these things down for assu●…ed points of doctrine, that 
y Rom. 6.  our old man was crucified with Christ, and we 
z 〈◊〉. 2.  buried with him; and raised up, and quickened together with him, and 
a 〈◊〉. 2.  made sit together in heavenly (places) in Christ jesus. 
b 〈◊〉, de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad 〈◊〉 li. 2.  We were in him as in a second first fruits (or new restoring) of our nature, praying with a strong cry and not without tears desiring the empery of death to be abolished, and the life, which was at first given to our nature to be restored. But here of I have spoken so much before, that I may spare my pains, in this place. Only if we follow the 〈◊〉, which the syriac interpreter proposeth agreeable to the greek and latin Fathers, that Christ, 
c Testamentum 〈◊〉 ca 5. ad Hebreos.  when he was compassed with flesh offered prayers and petitions with a vehement cry and tears to him, that was able to raise him (or quicken him) from death, and was heard: We need none other subversion of all your syllogisms. For then the thing which Christ so earnestly desired with strong cries and tears, was the resurrection of himself and of all his members after the death of the body into a perpetual and celestial life.  

d Defenc. pag. 137. li. 22.  When in the garden Christ prayed against that cup, which he feared; that it might pass from him, there he yieldeth and submitteth himself presently to the undergoing of it. But it were, I know not what, to say, that Christ did ever yield and submit himself to undergo eternal death, or to taste the cup of gods eternal malediction. Therefore it was not this, that he feared and here prayed against.] You are somewhat idle headed to make such a stur for that, which I am farther from, than you are. At the sharpness of Christ's bodily death, which he would not frustrate nor mitigate, and in the pains whereof he was to yield more perfect obedience and patience, than all mankind besides was able to do, the weakness of his human flesh might naturally somewhat stagger: and the power of God's hand against sin, which might be laid on his ●…oule or body, he might vehemently but righteously fear, and with strong cries and tears deprecate the force thereof, and in neither of these is there any vicinity with the second death, or with the death of the soul; and so neglecting what you should prove, you vainly push against that, which I do not uphold. And yet if we admit these cries and tears to be powered forth, not for himself, but for us, than might he most woefully bewail our deserved destruction, which was no less than everlasting damnation of body and soul; if he did not ransom and release us from it. To his father's will Christ submitted himself in the garden, but what he disliked in that cup which he named, and how much thereof he tasted, is known neither to you, nor to me, nor to any man living. That it was very sharp, we may justly collect by his natural dislike thereof, but what degrees or sorts of pains were adherent to his passion, is not for you or me to determine. What he might suffer with piety, patience, and obedience to his father, is above man's reach to define, but the second death or the death of the soul, if we follow the leading of the Scriptures, and not fall to devising a new hell, and a new death of the soul to support our fancies, are things, that by no colour of Scripture can be confirmed, howsoever you strain and stretch the word of God to find them there.  

e Defenc. pag. 137. li. 28.  And yet it was, I grant, the death of the soul, or the second death, that is, simply the 〈◊〉 thereof, Gods withdrawing himself from him in the pains and torments thereof.] Your grant is the ground of your doctrine, besides that which you have nothing else to bear the burden of your devices. But what a jest is this, when you should justly prove, and fully conclude your assertions, to fall to granting of them, whereas your grant with me, and with any man that is wise, is not worth a grey goose quill. Howbeit these are the best buttresses of your cause, even your own violent conceits, that force the Scriptures to your liking. But Sir, remember you are neither Prophet, nor Apostle, and so your granting of these novelties, may show your own giddiness, it cannot prejudice the true and undoubted rules of the Christian faith. [Hence it followeth in●…incibly that Christ indeed suffered, (sith thus he feared) more than the mere bodily death, even the death of the soul. For he could not I say thus fear, but he must needs know that it was to come, or might come unto him. If he but knew that it might come unto him, than it certainly did come unto him at one time or another in his passion before he left the world.] Here is the prime and pride of your observations out of this place of the Apostle to the Hebrews; and except a man were out of his wits, he would not revel in this sort with such waterish and witless resumptions. Palpable untruths you call invincible certainties, and trifles wherewith children will not be deceived, you obtrude to the whole Church of Christ, as fortresses of their faith. Christ feared, ergo he suffered; more than a bodily death, ergo the death of the soul. What he knew might come, that certainly did come. These be such babbles, that boys in the street will deride them, and yet you conceive and propose them as sapiential and sovereign collections. But he that wilfully wandereth, thinketh no way straighter, then that he traceth, and dreamers are often delighted with empty shadows; now if we take your own translation, the Apostle telleth us, that Christ was heard in that he feared, ergo he did not suffer it, and though it might come, yet because he was freed from it, certainly it came not; and many things might come more than the death of the body, and yet not the death of the soul. If then you have no stronger means to conclude the death of Christ's soul, than these, the simplest Reader will soon perceive, that your reasons be as frigent, as your humours be fervent; and though there be fire in your mind, yet there is water in your mouth, for you truly conceive, or justly conclude nothing.  

f Defenc. pag. 138. li. 3.  Sec. to the Hebrews. Christ abolished through death him, that had the power of death, that is, the Devil, and so delivered all them, which for fear of death were all their life time subject to bondage. here I see no reason in the world but that the Apostle by the often repeating of death, and by the natural referring of it in one place (as it were) to the other, doth understand and signify one and the same death altogether. But it is the death of the soul which the Devil hath power and execution of, also the death of the soul sinful men were held in fear of all their life long. It followeth then (I suppose) that even through the death of the soul, Christ abolished the Devil, and delivered his children.] I know not whether your eyes be open, or your brains sound that you see nothing, but what pleaseth yourself. And what if they be either so dim or so dull, that you see not the truth, is that a reason that your ignorance or wilfulness must be the loadstone of our creed? with such peevish and private presumption would you prevail against Scriptures, Fathers, and the whole church of Christ, that what you do not, or will not see, we must relinquish as false and erroneous? to let you see (if you be not blinded with preferring your fancies before the truth of Christ,) that this is a lazy, loose, and lewd argument, which here you make; take your own mayor or first proposition, that Christ suffered the self same death, which he abolished, whereof the Devil had power and execution and whereof we were in fear (being not redeemed) all our life long; and set this for the second proposition or assumption; but it is most evident, that the Devil had power and execution of eternal death, and to the fear of everlasting Destruction were we subject all the time of our life, before we were delivered by Christ: ergo Christ suffered eternal death and damnation in hell. For he abolished that from the faithful; and thereof the Devil had power and execution, as also we were in fear and danger of that without the Redeemer. What say you to this conclusion grounded on your own collection and proposition? see you the falseness and wickedness thereof? and yet if your assertion be true, that Christ must redeem us with the same kind of death, whereof we were in fear and bondage without him, and abolish the Devil with that very death, whereof he had power and execution, the one is as strong as the other. But who besides you would warble thus in so weighty matters?  
True it is, that the name of death compriseth all the kinds of death, I mean of body, of soul, of both for ever; and this chain of death is inseparable and inevitable, where Christ doth not break it. By the malice of the devil persuading sin, which is the loss of grace, and death of the soul in this life, came into the world the death of the body; that hence both body and soul might be haled to hell; though first the soul, and after the body, when at the last day it shall rise from the corruption of the grave to everlasting destruction. To think that Christ submitted himself to all these sorts of death, corporal, spiritual and eternal, is most hellish blasphemy; for so he should not have redeemed us, but destroyed himself, body and soul forever. To say that Christ delivered us not from all these links of death, from spiritual death (whiles here we live) from eternal death, after this life, and at the general resurrection, from the power of the grave, where our bodies rot in the mean time, is heathenish impiety and heresy denying the whole force and fruit of our redemption by Christ. Since then he cleared us from all, and yet suffered not all sorts of death, it is manifest (which is the Apostles meaning in the words by you cited) that by one kind of death, which in Christ was corporal, he freed us from all power of death, here and hereafter in body and soul; not preserving our bodies, that they should not turn to dust, but restoring them after death, which is the far more marvelous and mighty work of God. And this is every where so plainly witnessed in the Scriptures, and plentifully confessed by the learned and ancient fathers, that none but he that is blinder than a bat, would profess he seeth no such thing. Christ 
g Matth 20.  gave his life a ransom for many, and 
h Coloss. 2.  by the blood of his cross pacified things in heaven and in earth. 
i Hebr. 9  By the sacrifice of his body once (made) we are sanctified, and 
k 1. Peter 1.  healed by his stripes; who bore our sins in his body on the tree. If then the blood of Christ cleanse us from all sin, by which the devil and death had power over us; It is most certain, that Christ abolished sin and Satan by suffering his blood to be shed unto death for the remission of sins, & raising himself, that is the Temple of his body from death into a glorious and blessed life, by which the power and kingdom of Satan, were utterly overthrown.  

l Defenc. pag. 137. li. 15.  Against this you have no reason at all, but words and wrest, and vain ostentation of Fathers, none of them all denying our sense.] The reason of all reasons is against it; which is, that no man, nor Angel may add, or alter any thing in the Christian faith, without the sure warrant of the sacred Scriptures. 
m Rom. 10.  Faith is by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. It is reason enough for me, and for all ●…he faithful, that there is no such thing delivered in the word of God. You talk of words and wrest, as knowing them best, and using them most; and herein I am content to stand to the judgement of the wise and indifferent Reader, whether you have brought aught yet for the death of Christ's soul, or his suffering the second death, but your own speeches and surmises, abusing the words of the holy Ghost to your own fancies without either cause or colour.  
And touching the vain ostentation of Fathers; who, as you vaunt, deny not your sense, I brought ancient & learned writers not ignorant of the Christian faith, as being the pillars of their times, that with great perspicuity and vehemence denied, as I do, the death of Christ's soul; and affirmed with me the death, which Christ suffered in the body of his flesh, to be a most sufficient ransom for the sins of the whole world. Augustins' words were; 
n August. epist. 99  The same flesh in which only Christ died, rose again by the quickening of the spirit. For that Christ was dead in soul, that is in his human spirit, who dare 〈◊〉, since the death of the soul (in this life) is none else but sin, from which he was altogether free? This you say denieth not your sense: and why? because you avouch the death of Christ's soul, which Austen asketh who dare avouch? to say that Christ suffered the death of the soul, is with Austen an impudent and wicked presumption, and no part of the Christian faith, or of man's redemption. Austen by the death of the soul ment sin, you will say, which you mean not. You say by your leave, that Christ 
o Trea. pa. 42. li. 20.  became defiled and hateful to God by our sins; And so if pollution of sin be the death of the soul, that kind of death you ascribe to Christ, though not for his own sins, yet for ours, than made his, no less by guilt then by punishment, as you teach directly against the assertion of Saint Austen, who saith: 
p August contra Fa●…stum li. 14. ca 4.  Christ took our punishment without (our) guilt, that thereby he might release our guilt, and end our punishment. But you understand not Austen, when he saith, there is no death of the soul (here) but sin; he doth not thence exclude the consequents and adherents to sin in this life, but noteth, that only sin doth kill the soul, because it doth separate us from God, who is the life of the soul; and the light and grace of God departing from the soul by sin, the soul dieth, that is looseth all her sense of God, and motion to God, by which she liveth unto God. This with Austen, and this indeed by the word of God, is the death of the soul, which if you attribute to Christ, you incur open and exquisite infidelity. For your meaning therefore it maketh no great matter, if you will offer to correct our Creed you must speak as the Scriptures speak, and not deliver ●…s your private dreams for the public doctrine of Christ's Church.  
With like neglect you skip the rest avouched by Saint Austen, that Christ died only in his flesh, which rose again by the quickening of the spirit. Wherein least you should use your accustomed evasion, that the flesh of Christ compriseth as well his soul, as his body, Saint Austen hath wisely prevented you, in saying, the same flesh only died, Which rose again. Where if your learning serve you to say, that Christ's soul rose again the third day, you shall make us a new resurrection of souls, after this life, as the Scripture doth of bodies, which were a meet device for such a divine, as you are. How beit Saint Austen naming Christ's soul a part from his flesh, and affirming of Christ's soul, that no man (in his right wits) dare avouch Christ's soul died, but only that flesh, which rose again; it is as clear, as man's speech may be, that he utterly refuseth the death of Christ's soul, as an irreligious and unchristian position, and directly teacheth this as a ground confessed in Christian religion, that Christ died in his body alone, which rose again the third day, and not in his soul, which no Christian man durst avouch was ever dead. Of all the elect he saith likewise, that they who 
q August. d●… 〈◊〉 li. 13. ca 15.  pertain to the grace of Christ, so far die, as Christ died for them, Carnis tantum morte, non spiritus; the death of the flesh only, and not of the spirit. If this make not against you, nothing that I say, maketh against you, for I can use none other, nor plainer words, th●…n Austen and the rest of the Fathers do in teaching, that Christ died the death of the body only, and not of the soul; and that by his death which was only corporal, he destroyed the dominion of sin, and the strength of eue●…lasting death. 
r August. 〈◊〉. 162.  There is a first death, (saith Austen) and there is a second. The first death hath ●…wo parts; one, whereby the sinful soul by transgressing departeth from her creator; the other whereby she is excluded from her body through the judgement of God for a punishment. The second death is the everlasting torment of the body and soul: either of these deaths had every man obliged unto them, but the immortal and righteous son of God came to die for us, in whose flesh because there could be no sin, he suffered the punishment of sin, without the guilt thereof. Wherefore he admitted for us the second part of the ●…irst death, that is the death of the body only, by which he took from us the dominion of sin, and the p●…ine of eternal punishment.  
Say as Saint Austen here saith, and our controversies are ended. If he deny not your sense, you may the sooner accept this confession of the Catholic and Christian faith, from which no man yet swerved these fifteen hundred yeer●…s. But than you must tear both your Treatise and your defence in pieces. For by this, as by infinite other places in Austen, it is evident; first, that Christ took not unto him the guilt of our sin: secondly, that he died the death of the body only: thirdly, that by that his corporal death he destroyed sin, hell, and Satan: fourthly, that the death of the soul he could not die, because he could have no sin; and lastly, that he was far from the second death, which is the eternal damnation of body and soul. Acknowledge these, which never Christian man yet refused, and we shall soon resolve all other questions. If you have of late gotten you a faith besides this, and against this general Creed of all Christendom, look well to your new devices; you may sooner be excluded from the faith, than your fancies be included in the faith.  

s Defenc. pag. 137. li. 17.  Thirdly, it seem●…th also that Peter teacheth the same, saying, Christ in his suffering was done to death in the flesh, but made alive by the spirit. Where death may be very well referred both to the soul and body of Christ, because the text here speaketh (as I judge) of the whole and entire sufferings of Christ] Be these the demonstrations you bring us out of the Scriptures for the death of Christ's soul, that these words of Peter MAY BE referred both to the soul and body of Christ, IT SEEMETH SO and YOU IVDG●… SO? To you that hunt after your conceits in every syllable of the scriptures, that is any thing doubtful, may things SEEM, that are not, and if you may be judge, what sense each place may bear, we shall quickly have a new doctrine and discipline in the Church of God, framed to your fancies, though no way deduced by just proof from the word of God. But here Christian Reader thou mayest see the foundation of this new redemption by the death of Christ's soul, and his suffering the second death; H. I. so judgeth; and to him it so seemeth. Indeed it is common with you and your consorts to set down every thing for the undoubted word of God, what you once conceit may seem to be within the compass of any text. But I hope the wise and Godly Reader will look better about him, then to take your maying, your seeming, your judging, for the ground of his faith against the plain and express places of the Scriptures, and against the continual and general understanding of the whole Church of Christ. Yet let us hear the reason of your seeming, since other proof for your purpose you bring none, neither here, nor else where.  
Christ, as Peter teacheth, was 
t 1 Peter 3.  mortified (or put to death) in the flesh, but quickened in (or by) the spirit. What conclude you out of these words? 
u D●…fenc. pag. 137. li. 2●….  The word flesh, it seemeth, cannot here in this place be understood to signify only the body of Christ. If that cannot be, than was S. Austen much deceived, who out of these very words concluded, that Christ died in 
x Epist. 99  flesh alone, and not in soul; & addeth a better reason out of Peter's words, than you bring any; since Christ was in that part mortified, in which he was afterwards quickened; & of the soul of Christ as none durst avouch, it was ever mortified, so never being dead, there was no cause it should be quickened; and therefore neither of these attri●…utes agreed to the soul of Christ, but to his flesh only. [
y Defenc. pag. 137. li. 28.  My reason is, because wheresoever in the Scripture the flesh and the spirit are noted oppositely together in Christ, there the flesh signifieth always the whole humanity, even both parts thereof, the soul also, and not only the body.] First that rule hath no ground nor truth; and if it were addmitted, it proveth no such thing, as you would enforce. For in a case far plainer, the name of Christ wheresoever it is applied to Christ living, I mean, saying, suffering, or doing any thing, there without all question the whole humanity is comprised in that name, since Christ's body without his soul could neither say, suffer, nor do any thing. And yet were it mad divinity to attribute every action and passion affirmed of Christ in the Scriptures, as well to his soul, as to his body. That Christ sat, that he hungered, that he did eat, that he slept, and was circumcised, buffited, whipped, and a number such like are avouched in the Scriptures of Christ living, that is of his whole ●…umanitie, (for without body and soul he could do, nor suffer none of these things:) And yet I trust you will not therefore conclude, that Christ's soul did 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉, eat, or sit, or that it was circumcised, buffited, and whipped, as well as his body. So that the word may contain the whole man, as doubtless the name of Christ's 〈◊〉 doth, and yet the things ascribed to the person do not always properly agree to both parts alike. For so we shall make the soul to have flesh and bones as well as the body hath, which we●…e to make it no soul, but a body. Wherefore your illation is as weak as your observation is false, and you far from inferring your purpose. I know the soul doth partake in all these and such like actions, and passions with the body. For the force to do, and since to feel, is from the soul; and so in the death of the body, the soul is partaker with the body, not to lie dead and senseless as the body doth, but to feel the pain of death, and suffer the separation from the body, 〈◊〉 the effects of death appear in the body: But that the soul doth die, when the whole compound of body and soul dieth, is no consequent, neither in Philosophy, nor Divinity. [
z Defenc. pag. 137. li. 20.  The text here speaketh (as I judge) of the whole and entire sufferings of Christ] The text here speaketh of death bereaving life, which was after re-●…stored when Christ's body was again quickened by the power of his spirit; the rest of Christ's sufferings during the whole time of his life are not comprised in the name of death; otherwise Peter must have said, Christ was always dead, since his affection's 〈◊〉 with circumcision, if not before, which is no part of Peter's speech, nor meaning; yea rather it is repugnant to both, since Peter saith, Christ 
a 1. Peter. 3.  suffered once f●…r sins, when he was put to death, and not ever and always, whiles he lived on ●…arth.  

b Defence pag. 137. li. 35.  Against this observation what pretended you? some Scriptures palpably abused. first Matthew, where Christ speaketh of his Disciples, that their spirit (their inward regenerate man) was ready to watch, b●…t their flesh (their corrupt Nature) was weak and sluggish. 〈◊〉 is this to Christ's flesh and spirit?] If my authority were as good as yours, and my learning as great I could say as you do, I judge it so; but if I show not better reason for me to a●…firme, those words Christ meant of himself, than you do or can, that he meant them not of himself, I am content your consistorian seeming shall go before my laborious proving, my use is not to rely too much on mine own judgement, as you do, though I thank God, I can examine both your and other men's interpretations, but when I find a thing maturely and rightly considered and conco●…ded by the learned and ancient Fathers in matters of faith, or exposition of the Scriptures, I go not easily from them. Tertullian saith, 
c Tertullianus de suga in persecutione.  Christ himself professed his soul was 〈◊〉 unto death, his flesh weak, that he might show to thee, there were in himself both the substa●…ces of man by the property of heaviness in the soul, and weakness in the flesh. Athanasius likewise. 
d Athanasius de Passione & Cru●…e 〈◊〉.  A little afore his death Christ cried, the spirit was willing, but the fles●… weak●…, that our adversary (the devil) encountering him as a man, might feel his divine power. Theophilus Alexandrinus. 
e 〈◊〉 epistola Paschali prima contra Appollinaristas.  If Christ took only the flesh of man, (and not the soul of man) why in his Passion did he say, the spirit is prompt, but the flesh weak. Ambrose, 
f Ambros. ls. 4. in 〈◊〉. ca 4.  If Christ's body had been spiritual; he would not have said; the spirit is prompt, but the flesh is weak. Hear the voice of either in Christ, as well of weak flesh, as of a ready spirit. The ancient writer among the works of Saint Austen. 
g De Salutaribus documentis. ca 64.  The truth itself, our Lord jesus Christ saith of himself, the spirit is prompt, but the flesh weak. Cyrill. 
h Cyrill. Thesauri. li. 10. ca 3.  Though Christ abhorred death as a man, yet as a man he refused not to do the will of his Father, and his own as God; and therefore he said the spirit is prompt, but the flesh is weak. Vigilius. 
i Vigilius contra 〈◊〉. li. 5. ca 4.  What is that, wherein he suffered and tried weakness, but man's nature, whereof he said at the time of his passion, the spirit is prompt, but the flesh weak? tasting of which infirmity he learned to help the weak. Severianus. 
k Severianus contra Nonatum citatur a 〈◊〉. contra 〈◊〉. hem.  My soul (saith Christ) is he avic unto death. And interpreting to what his Passions pertained, the spirit, saith he, is ready, but the flesh weak. Remigius. 
l 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. 26. 〈◊〉. a Tho. 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  In these words Christ showeth, that he took true flesh of the Virgin, and that he had a true soul; Wherefore he now saith, that his spirit is ready to suffer, but that his weak flesh feareth the pain of his Passion. Euthymius. 
m 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉.  My God, my God, (said Christ) why hast thou forsaken me, that is, why hast thou left me in this fear, knowing (my) spirit is ready, but (my) flesh weak. What think you had I no more reason to say, as I said, than you have to deny it? where also you may note, that all these learned Fathers refuse your lame observation, as well as I do; and so you had need seek some better authority than your own, or perhaps some one, that 〈◊〉 you with this rule serving to none other end, but to help forward your hell fancy.  

n 〈◊〉 pag. 139. li. 1.  Think you that Christ's soul was willing to suffer as God had appointed, but that his flesh resisted? ve●…ily so you seem here to understand, and it is as likely, as your applying of flesh and spirit to Christ in your pag. 104.] Put on your vizard before you take in hand to control the judgement of so many Fathers. Your pride is greater than your wit in this and most things that pass your pen. Is it such news to you for me, or for them to say, that Christ's flesh was weak, that is, not so ready to suffer, as was his soul? seeth your mastership no difference betwixt weakness and resistance, specially when in comparison of the readiness of the spirit, the flesh is said to be weaker, that is, less ready to suffer then the soul? doth not the Apostle apply the same word unto Christ when he saith, Christ was 
o 2. Cor. 13.  crucified through weakness? and long before, the Prophet said of Christ; 
p Esa. 53.  He is a man full of sorrows, and one that hath experience in infirmities. So that your choler was kindled without cause, when you struck such an heat with my saying, that Christ's flesh was weak; the Prophet foretold he should be a man full of sorrows, and well acquainted with infirmities.  
The untrue conceit which you challenge in the 104. Page of my Sermons touching Christ's flesh, where I said, it must have force to cleanse and quicken, when you impug●…e, I will defend; in the mean time it may serve, I saved nothing, but what our Sa●…iour said before me; 
q job. 6. vers. 56. 54.  He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him, he hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. If you could take any hold, I doubt not the sharpness of your teeth, but your foolish conceits are carried like clouds in the air, they rest not, before they vanish.  

r Defence pag. 139. li. 5.  Then Luke; where both spirit and flesh are not intended of Christ (as our observation requireth) but only the flesh.] Your observation is made to fit S. Peter's words to your fancy. For there are not many places in Scripture, where spirit and flesh are expressed and intended of the two natures of Christ, though in other places some words adjoined do prove him to be God, as well as man. In that of S. Luke, Christ doth not deny himself to be a divine spirit, for than he were no God, since God is a 
s john 4.  spirit; nor to have an human spirit, for than he were no man; but that which they saw with their eyes, he affirmed was flesh and blood, and not any apparition in the shape of a man. And the words following, 
t Luke 24.  as ye see me to have, contain and note the other part of his human nature, which was his soul and spirit, and consequently infer, that he was a man, and had an human spirit, though compassed with flesh and bones, as we have.  

u Defenc. pag. 139. li. 7.  Then the Romans: where I affirm that flesh signifieth the whole manhood of Christ, according to the which he came from David, even as well as Solomon or Nathan did, who were David's sons in their entire and perfect nature.] Whether Christ's body without a soul, which was but a Carcase, be always in the Scriptures intended by the name of Christ's flesh, this is not the question; there is but one place in the new Testament, where Christ's flesh importeth his dead body, as when Peter saith, Christ's 
x Acts 2.  flesh saw no corruption; but whether whatsoever is attributed to Christ's flesh with comparison or mention of his divine nature, do properly agree as well to his soul as to his body, this is the thing in question betwixt you and me. That the man Christ was borne of the Virgin, and died on the Cross, there is no doubt, but that his soul was made of the seed of David, and circumcised, & crucified as well as his body, this is your error; and for this you have no show in the word of God, and therefore you seek by rules of your own making to draw it in by the heels, when you cannot by the head. It is but a shift to save yourself, when you tell your Reader, that Christ's whole manhood came from David, as well as Solomon, or Nathan did; The point is whether Christ's soul were made of the seed of David, as well as his body was. That I deny, and have the Apostle for my warrant, that men are only the 
y Heb. 12.  Fathers of our bodies, and God is the immediate Father of (our) spirits. Which if it be true in all men, than Solomon and Nathan were the sons of David, not because their souls were made of the seed of David, but only their bodies; and yet since they drew as much from their father, as children by God's ordinance do or may do, therefore were they the sons of David. In Christ it is most sure, which the Apostle saith, that according to the fl●…sh he was made of the seed of David. This by no means can be verified of his soul, howsoever you would slubber it up by calling his whole manhood the son of David, which I do not deny. Not that his soul was made of the seed of David, as was his body that is an open and an odious error; but that his flesh made of the seed of David which was the Virgin's body, was also quickened with a soul from God in due time, that came not out of David's loins. Even so the whole man in Christ died on the Cross, not that his soul was deprived of life, or left dead, as was his body; but that the conjunction of soul and body, which maketh the whole man, was dissolved by death, his flesh lying in the grave without corruption, and his soul remaining in the hands of God, to which it was commended.  

z Defenc. pag. 139.  So likewise Christ was kin to the Jews according to his whole humanity, as well as Paul was.] When you can show kindred in spirits, as well as in flesh, that is derived from parents, then say that Paul and Christ were kin to the jews according to their whole humanity; till you prove that, howsoever use of speech may be endured which must be interpreted according to the truth, you can never conclude there is consanguinity between souls, as there is between bodies. And spite of your heart, if you will not maintain untruths to uphold your credit, as your manner is, the Apostle teacheth you how to understand those words, that as we have fathers of our bodies, from whom our spirits come not, but immediately from God; so kindred and consanguinity, which cometh by the parents, goeth by flesh and blood received from them, and not by souls infused from God. S. john leadeth you to the same rule, that men are borne of blood, and of the will of the flesh, and so by flesh and blood cometh kindred; God giving souls to quicken their bodies. Wherefore the Scriptures, when they express kindred, they note it by flesh and bone. As when Laban said to jacob, Thou art my 
a Gene. 29.  bone, and my flesh; So judah of joseph, 
b Gene. 37.  he is our brother, and our flesh. So Abimelech to his mother's brethren, 
c judic. 9  I am your bone and your flesh. And usualy where kindred is claimed or yielded, the Scriptures express it by 
d 2. Sam. 5. 19  flesh and bones, as Adam said to Eve, 
e Gen. 2.  This now is bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh. So that howsoever you dream or talk of the consanguinity of souls, it is like the rest of your novelties which have no handfast but in your head; and the exception taken by me will stand good, do you and your adherents what you can, that in these attributes to the manhood of Christ you shall never prove they properly pertain to both parts, but to the whole conjoined, or to one part severally respected.  

f Defenc. pag. 139. li. 21.  Further, that which you bring out of the Corinthians compared with this in Peter, doth most clearly open and confirm the same. He was crucified touching his infirmity, but liveth by the power of God. His soul had infirmities of suffering in it, aswell as his body: therefore his soul also is understood here that it was crucified and died, that is, according to the condition thereof.] You prove not what you promise, but pronounce what you please, which if any man will suffer you to do, we shall soon have a new Church, a new Faith, and all things new. Afore you pretended rules at least, though void of reason and truth; now you bend against all rules of learning, Logic, Grammar, and Divinity. For I pray you in Grammar what is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here used by the Apostle? Are the parts here noted, that were crucified and raised to life, or the cause from which first death was suffered, and after life was recovered by our Saviour? A man would think, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were by or through weakness, even as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is by or through the power of God. Christ then was crucified, not by the immediate hand of God, but by the jews, who could not crucify his soul, as they did his body. If you know not who crucified Christ, read the Gospel afresh, or hearken to S. Peter, who said to the jews; 
g Act. 2.  jesus of Nazaret have ye taken by the hands of the wicked, and crucified and slain: and proclaimed openly to the Rulers of the people, and Elders of Israel, 
h Act. 4.  Be it known to you all and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of jesus Christ of Nazaret, whom ye have crucified, whom God raised again from the dead, by him this Cripple standeth whole before you. The jews than 
i 1. Cor. 2.  crucified the Lord of glory, who could not kill the soul but only the body. Therefore they crucified only his body; and other crucifiers of Christ the Scripture nameth none. How come you then against all learning and truth to collect that Christ's soul was crucified?  

k Defenc. pag. 139. li. 25.  His infirmity the text here nameth metonimically understanding in Christ that in which his infirmities were.] When the plain text will not serve your turn, you fasten what you list with figures to it, and then by as good Logic, you change a part into the whole, and conclude like a Doter in Divinity (for you scorn all degrees, as you do all rules of School) that Christ's soul was nailed to the cross (for that is crucifying) and died as well as his body. These be wondrous leaps in my small understanding, and such as few men but you could light on so readily. In st●…d of the Apostles speech, that Christ was crucified 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 through infirmity, (or by reason of infirmity voluntarily embraced, whiles he submitted himself to his Father's will) to clap in this conclusion, that Christ was crucified and died as well in soul, as in body. Had you lived in former ages, what heresies could not you have deduced from the text itself, if not by Grammatical or Logical inference yet by metonymical and metaphorical excurrence. sampson's riddle was, out of the strong came sweetness, and we may say, out of the weak cometh bitterness.  

l Defenc. pag. 139. li. 37.  Other reasons also I noted serving well hereunto, but I omit to rehearse them again. For it seemeth yourself agreeth with us in them, holding expressly that the spirit here in Peter is the Deity of Christ according to Augustine's judgement. Now this being granted and acknowledged, how can it be likely but that the other opposite part of the flesh must needs import his whole and entire Manhood. 
m Pag. 140. li. 11.  Now this being so, than it followeth by the text, that Christ in his Passion was done to death both in soul and body.] Your other reasons tended after your manner to show, that spirit in Peter's words did not signify the soul of Christ; to which I said nothing, because I therein agreed with you. Where then you conclude overhastily, that therefore it signifieth the Deity of the second person in Trinity, the text enforceth no such thing; as that the second person in Trinity did in the days of No preach by his own Godhead, and not by his spirit. 
n Gene. 6.  The Lord said, my spirit shall not alway strine with man, his days shall be 120. years. Which whether we take to be the words of the Father, or the Son, by the spirit there is meant the holy Ghost, which proceedeth from the Father and the Son, and is called the spirit of them both, and did by the tongue of No the Preacher of righteousness witness the judgement of God to come by the flood upon the wicked and disobedient world. By this power of his which is his spirit, God quickened the human flesh of Christ, when it was crucified and dead in the grave, and by the same spirit shall he restore and quicken all the bodies of the faithful after they be turned to dust. And although I have no doubt but the works of the Trinity towards all creatures are undivided, and the power of the Father is the power of the Son, yet when the Scriptures do testify, that Christ's human flesh was quickened by the spirit we must understand the holy Ghost: God the Father raising his Son, and the Son raising himself by the spirit of sanctification, which is the power of the Father and of the Son. So speaketh the Apostle to the Romans. 
o Rom. 1.  Christ made of the seed of David as touching the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God, with power through the spirit of sanctification, by the resurrection from the dead. Where his flesh made of the seed of David proveth him to be a true man, and the mighty declaration of him to be the Son of God showeth his Divine nature and glory, which most appeared by the wonderful works and gifts of the spirit of sanctification, powered out on all his after he was once ri●…en from the dead.  
Lest you think this my device to defeat your observation, hear what the learned and ancient Fathers say thereof. chrysostom upon those words of Paul, Christ was declared to be the Son of God with power through the spirit of sanctification.] 
p Chryso●…t. in epistolam ad Romanos ho-●…l. 1.  The fourth argument (of Christ's Divinity) is drawn (saith he) from the spirit, which he gave to those that believed in him, and by which he sanctified them all. Wherefore Paul saith, through the spirit of sanctification. For only God was able to give those kinds of gifts. jerom. Through the spirit of sanctification.] Paul 
q Hieron. in ca 1. epistola ad Romanos.  noteth here the holy Ghost the Creator. Ambrose, Paul 
r Ambros inca. primum 〈◊〉 ad Romanos.  calling Christ the Son of God, showeth God to be his father, and adding the spirit of sanctification, noteth the mystery of the Trinity. Augustine. that Paul saith, 
s August. in expositio. inchoata epistolae ad Rom.  Through the spirit of sanctification, he meaneth, because they received the gift of the spirit after Christ's resurrection. Theodoret, the Apostle here teacheth, 
t Theodoretus in ca 1. epist. ad Rom.  that he, who was called the Son of David according to the flesh was declared to be the son of God by the power, which was showed from the holy Ghost after our Lord jesus was risen from the dead. Oecumenius, 
u Oecumenius in ca 1. epist. ad Rom.  through the spirit of sanctification.] He meaneth by the holy Ghost, which Christ gave to the believers in him. Theodulus 
x Theodulus in cap. 1. 〈◊〉. ad Romanos.  through the spirit of sanctification, that is, by the holy spirit, which Christ gave to those that believed in him. Theophylactus 
y Theophylact. in ca 1. epist. ad Romanos.  by the spirit of sanctification, that is, by the spirit, with which he maketh the believers holy. Haymo 
z Haymo in ca 1. epistolae ad Romanos.  the spirit of sanctification is here taken for the holy Ghost, who giveth sanctity to men and Angels, who also fashioned, quickened and sanctified Christ's manhood in the Virgin's womb, of the seed of the Virgin, without the seed of man.  
The new writers with one consent, as Erasmus, Zuinglius, Peter Martyr, Bullinger, Musculus, Gualther, Hemmingius, Aretius, and calvin himself follow the same interpretation, so that your observation against and after all their judgements is misbegotte and borne out of time; and brought in of purpose to pave the way for your new found fancies, which have no ground, but in your new made notes as much crossing probability, as authority. Yea the observation wrongeth the distinction of the persons in the most blessed Trinity, and dishonoureth rather the Deity of the Son of God than advanceth it; whiles the Son of God, and the spirit of holiness, being both expressly named, you take them both for one person; and make the Son of God in his divine nature to be less than the possessor, or giver of life and righteousness, eveu a receiver of both. For in all these places where you say the name of spirit is used to signify Christ's Godhead, the power and work of the holy Ghost is there intended and expressed, as that Christ was 
a Rom. 1.  declared to be the Son of God by the spirit of sanctification; and was 
b 1. Tim. 3.  God manifested in the flesh, justified by the spirit, as also 
c 1. Pet. 3.  mortified in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit. The spirit of sanctification is the title of the holy Ghost sanctifying as well the Manhood of Christ, as his members; and the giving thereof declareth the Son to be true God, whose spirit this is as well as the Fathers, and by whom the Son worketh as well as the Father. And where it is written, that Christ was justified and quickened by the spirit, if there you read in the spirit, meaning in the Deity of Christ, than Christ's Godhead received life and righteousness, which by your leave is a speech ne allowed ne frequented in the Scriptures. For though the second person in Trinity by his internal and eternal generation received all, that he hath, from the Father, who begat him, yet of this generation, which is secret, substantial, and eternal, the Apostles speak not, when they say Christ was quickened and justified; but the one showeth that Christ's body, which was put to death was raised again to life by the power of his spirit: the other noteth that he was God manifested in the flesh and justified, that is, proved and confirmed so to be by the mighty works and graces of God's spirit showed as well in his own person, as in all his members. For that is the intent of the Apostles words, not that his divine glory was only praised or acknowledged of men, but that the world believed, the Angels admired, the spirit justified, that is most mightily and clearly witnessed him to be God manifested in the flesh. Then hath your observation his full discharge, since there is no one place, where these words the spirit and flesh are applied to Christ to note his two natures, though his Godhead be testified and plainly proved in most of the same places by more pregnant words than spirit, which is common to Angels, souls, and winds; and only showeth, that it is no palpable or sensible body; where the name of spirit alone in the Scriptures standing for the third person in Trinity noteth the power and grace of the holy Ghost, by which these things were wrought for Christ's manhood. And in that place of Peter, on which you most depend, if you follow the Syriac translation to which your own adherents so often appeal, the Apostles words are, Christ was dead in body, but liu●…d in spirit, which convinceth first, that flesh is there taken for the body of Christ contrary to your observation, and that Christ still lived in spirit, which everteth your main conclusion intended from this place for the death of Christ's soul.  
But were it, as you suppose, that flesh and spirit were ascribed to Christ to declare his two natures, the one to be corporal and human, the other to be spiritual and divine; how doth it follow, that every thing affirmed of his manhood must properly agree both to body and soul? by what Logic conclude you that? you may as well avouch that Christ's soul is truly corporal or carnal, because it is comprised under the name of flesh, as that other attributes of the body are verified in the soul. Which if you think absurd, though the name of flesh by a figure of speech import the whole man, because the Scripture speaketh not of a dead, but of a living man: then is there less cause, that each action or passion affirmed of the flesh should exactly or properly be referred to the soul, since the common use of speech intending the whole by a part is figurative; and in figurative speeches, as where the soul or the flesh are taken for the whole man, the attributes cannot be properly restrained to each part, no more than the names are. And even out of those places by which you would collect death to be common to the body and soul of Christ, the ancient fathers conclude death to be proper to the body of Christ, and not common to the soul; as Austin out of Saint Peter. 
d August. 〈◊〉 99  Quid est enim, quòd vivificatus est spiritu, nisi qu●…d eadem caro, qua sola fuer at mortificat us, vivificante spiritu resurrexit? What other meaning hath this that Christ was quickened by the spirit, but that the same flesh, in which only he was put to death, rose again by the quickening of the spirit? And Cyrill. 
e Cyrill de recta fide ad 〈◊〉 li. 2.  Was it not a work of infirmity to endure the cross? I confess (saith Paul) he was weak in the flesh, but he revived again by the power of God. And how was he weak? by suffering his own body to taste death for us, and restoring to life again that very temple (of his body) not doing this by the weakenessc of his flesh, but by the power of God. Christ 
f Ibid●…m.  died for us, not as a man like one of us, but as a God in flesh, giving his own body a ransom for the life of all. Wherefore his Disciple (Peter) saith wisely and warily, that he suffered in the flesh. But of the father's judgement in this case more shallbe said afterward.  

g Defenc. pag. 139. li. 12.  here you object, thus I note all the attributes of the body common to the soul. Nay for sooth that I do not;] Forsooth the ground of your conclusion inferreth so much what ever your meaning is, or may be. For this you urge, that wheresoever the flesh of Christ is taken for the whole manhood of Christ, the thing affirmed of Christ's flesh must be common to soul and body; and thence you conclude, that since Christ suffered death in his flesh by Saint Peter's words, he must by the Scriptures ●…e said to have died as well in the soul as in the body. You regard no more but death to be common to both, which of all others is not common to both, because they are severed by death; but upon this collection it followeth, if your rule be not false, that since through out the Scrtptures, where mention is made of Christ's living flesh, or of his actions, or passions, the whole manhood of Christ is there understood, then consequently all those things so affirmed of Christ must be common to both the parts of Christ's human nature, that is as well to his soul, as to his body. To pretend your meaning against your speech, when you see how absurd your saying is, is a childish vanity; if your observation and illation be true, this that I object, followeth; if those be not true, then fail you of your first purpose, that death must be common to both parts of Christ's manhood. Besides the falsity of your collection appeareth by this, that when things are attributed to Christ living, which are proper to the soul or body, and yet are ascribed to Christ's person, this kind of speech is figurative, either because the whole is taken for a part, or because either part hath some concurrence or reference to the actions and passions avouched of Christ. But thence you may not infer, that all such things most properly agree to either part in Christ; that is such palpable ignorance, that you seem not to conceive, what a man is, or whereof he consisteth. For so you may conc●…ude, that the soul eateth, drinketh, sleepeth, sitteth, falleth, and such like, as well as the body, because these things are affirmed of the person, that is of the whole man, though indeed performed by means of the body.  
More folly it is to urge the same in death, which severeth the soul from the body, and so leaveth nothing common to body and soul, but the general attributes of a Creature, as to be local, finite, and such like. For where death is the privation of life, and the soul is the life of her body, what reason or sense can it have, because man dieth, to say the loss of life must be common to the soul, which is the cause of life, as well as to the body, which is but the vessel, or vehicle of life. True it is, the soul by death is driven to depart from her body, but so long, as she is present, there is life, and she must first be gone before death, which is the lack of life, can seize on the body. To draw this consequent then from reason, that the soul must die, when man dieth, is the part of him that understandeth not what reason meaneth; except by the dying of the soul he note the departing of the soul from the body, in which sense the Scriptures sometimes apply the name of death to the soul, as we shall afterwards see.  

h Defenc. pag. 140. li. 14.  This attribute of dying understood in such sort and manner as the body properly dieth, that is to become without life and sense, I make not common to the soul.] The whole man consisting of body and soul, is most properly said to die, that is to be dissolved, the soul departing from the body; the body is properly said to be dead, that is to be void of life and sense. and if we say, the body dieth, as speech is often guided rather by use then by rule, we mean the body beginneth to lack sense and life, and to be possessed by death. And though the soul cannot be void of life and sense in such sort as the body is, because she is the life of the body, yet when the soul is dead, she is utterly void of her life, which is God, and hath no more sense or feeling of him, than the body lying dead hath of the soul. How then doth it follow, that because Christ died in the flesh, or in his manhood, that his soul must be dead after her manner of dying, as well as his body after his sort of death? [where the whole dieth, either part, you will say, must die.] But Peter doth not say, Christ died in his whole manhood, that is your lame and blind conceit, but that Christ died in the flesh. And yet the whole manhood may die, and not both parts, because the whole is a thing conjoined of parts, and so dissolved, where they are severed, though both parts do not die. [the whole, you mean for every part.] Your meaning is, not the matter, but Peter's words are the thing that I stand on. Now what do they infer, when he saith, Christ died in the flesh? you say the whole, and every part thereof, because the spirit here opposite to the flesh importeth the whole deity, and therefore the flesh must comprise the whole humanity.] This is that bold and false observation, that hath deceived you and your leaders. For besides all other exceptions h●…eretofore taken, which are enough; the words of Paul in the same case, which is also one of your examples, Christ was 
i Rom. 1.  made of the seed of David according to the flesh, do they infer that Christ's whole manhood, and every part thereof, as well soul as body, was made of the seed of David? If you and your instructors see the falseness of this collection, with what face urge you so earnestly the same illation from Peter's words? but your wills, not Peter's words, are the foundation of your faith; and so you can make a show to wrangle, you little care for truth or substance.  

k Defence pag. 140. li 25.  This if you do not acknowledge, the shame of absurdity and contrariety, which in your fancy you accuse me of, that Christ's soul died and died not, will sit nearer to you than to me.] Is this enough to say the word? You may soon write, if you make it suff●…cient to say what you list; but your absurdities and contrarieties are not so easily declined, as you would slightly overslip them. Look back to your former footing, and see how shamefully you shun your own assertions. Examining the place of Peter after your learned manner, and labouring, as you thought, with impregnable force to prove, when Peter ●…yth, Christmas mortified in the fl●…sh, but qnickened in (or by) the spirit, that the spirit could not there be taken for Christ's human soul; you 
l Tre●… pa. 78. li. 〈◊〉.  butted both these as absurd and most false, that Christ was made alive either in his human soul, or by the same. I replied, that you refuted your own position. Fo●… if in the former words of Peter, his meaning were to say, that Christ's soul and body, as you conceive him, were done to death; then of necessity Christ must be quickened and restored to life, as well in his human Soul, as in his Body. And this is so far from being absurd and false, as you proclaimed it, that it is openly blasphemous otherwise to say or think, that Christ was never made alive in his human soul, if once it were dead, as you collected out of Peter's words. What course now take you to colour these incongruities. You meant it was absurd to say, that Christ's soul was quickened, as was his body. Of the manner of death you speak there not a word, but only seek to prove, that spirit in that place can not be taken for Christ's soul, because it is most absurd and false, (as you say) that Christ was made alive in his human soul. How you will jangle or juggle touching your intent, is not to this purpose; you must answer for the sense, which you would patch to Peter's words. The death, which Christ suffered in his flesh by Peter's assertion, was it the death of the body alone, or of both body and soul? if of the body only; then is your commentane, which corrupteth Peter's words, absurd, false, and wicked. Did Peter intend to teach, that Christ died in both parts of his manhood, that is in soul as well as in body? then is it a necessary truth, and point of piety to confess and affirm, that Chest was made alive in his human soul, which you say is absurd and false. Which way will your wisdom wind out of this grin? you meant it is absurd for the soul to be quickened, as the body is. You meant as best served your turn, but what meant Peter? if he affirmed the soul of Christ died, as you interpret him, must not his words avouch that Christ's soul was made alive, except you resolve, that Christ's soul once dead was never quickened again? and though you set a bold face on these contradictions, and say you are far from them, yet each mean Reader may soon perceive how far you were overshot in them, though here you would outface them. And where you now say, that in such a sense you do not deny, but Christ may be said to be quickened in the spirit, what is this but to grant that now, which before you called absurd and most false.  

m D●…c. pag. 140. li. 37.  I hope it is clear to reasonable men, that Christ's soul according to the Scriptures phrase may be said in some sort to have tasted & suffered death, that is the extremest feelings of God's wrath for sin, and the most vehement pains of the damned, but in a singular manner and extraordinary way. And to the same reasonable men I refer it, whether you have brought one word or syllable out of holy Scripture concluding that Christ died the death of the soul, or the second death. The Scripture phrase you have perverted and distorted to your meaning, but the words are far from inferring any such thing even in the judgement of the meanest. Your mitigations, In some sort, in a singular manner, and extraordinary way, What argue they but your wresting of the Scriptures from their right sense, since no such thing is there affirmed, yea the death of the soul, and the second death in the Scriptures are such, as you dare not avouch of Christ, but with these limitations, which are no where mentioned in the Scriptures, but are hovels to shroud your absurd and false doctrine from the tempest of the word of God convincing you of impiety and heresy, if you did not thus delude the force of them? But in vain do you seek for these unsound refuges, when you be once driven from your footing in the word of God. For you must not only prove by the Scriptures, which you neither have done, nor can do, that Christ suffered the death of the soul, and the second death, as you say he did; but you must show also where these exceptions are written of Christ, otherwise they are but shifts declining the main and general truth of the Scriptures touching the death of the soul, and the second death; which can no more agree to Christ then sin and damnation; which you may as well defend, IN A SORT, in a singular manner, and extraordinary way to be found in Christ, as the other. And therefore dally not with the word of God, and faith of Christ, your singular manner will not save you from abusing the one, and defacing the other, except you can show, where your assertion as well as your exceptions be written in the book of God. As for the most vehement pains of the damned, when you take the pains to prove any thing otherwise then by the meal of your own mouth, you shallbe answered. The pains of the damned expressed in the Scriptures are rejection, confusion, worm of conscience, and torment of hell fire, which if by your cunning conveyance you cast upon the soul of Christ you shall cough me a singular and extraordinary miscreant.  

n Defenc. pag. 141. li. 6.  Now besides the matter you gird at me in divers places, as where I say, the death of the soul is such pains and sufferings of God's wrath as always accompany them that are separated from the grace and love of God.] This gear deserved more than girding; other men use to blush at such falsehoods, but shamefastness and you are parted. When you had thus grossly thwarted the truth, as to say, that the pains of God's wrath, which here you make the most 
o Treatis. pag. 77. li. 5.  vehement pains of the damned, do always accompany them that are separated from the grace and love of God; your Printer or Corrector ashamed of that more than childish oversight, would not take upon him to alter your text, and so to amend your error, but with a marginal note bridled your words, making an addition clean contrary to your text. For where you said, always, he said, ordinarily, which is not always, and so he giveth you the lie; and yet himself is as far from the truth as you are. For neither always, nor ordinarily, much less always ordinarily, (which is as much as always sometimes) do the most vehement pains of the damned accompany them that are strangers to the grace and love of God; and therefore this Labyrinth is like your other riddles in religion, neither Writer, Reader, nor Corrector can tell what to make of them, nor how to temper them with any truth. But now you will make amends for all.  

p Defenc. pag. 141. li. 10.  Forsooth it is true, they are always wicked whom these pains do accompany ordinarily.] It is the first time I heard you speak towards a truth, but this is clean kam to that you said before. Your former speech was, these pains do always accompany the wicked, and now you turn the cake in the pan, as if that side were not burnt, and tell us, they are always wicked, whom those pains do accompany ordinarily. Forsooth this is not 
How handsomely the defender shifteth hands.  that, you said before; and if you be ashamed of your folly and falsehood, I am not against repentance. But it were plain dealing to confess the fault, and not to bring in an ape for an owl, and say it is the same Creature. And yet forsooth whether this position be true or not, is without the compass of your skill. For first what is ordinary with you? once a week, once a month, or once in seven years? you have gotten a word, that you may wind at your will, and limit as you like best; and yet without all proof you resolve, that these pains do ordinarily accompany the wicked: experience I trust you will take none upon you, for then by your own rule you must be always wicked; to sift other men's souls, what pains they feel, though they be wicked, I win you have no way, but by report or con●…ecture, which are both uncertain. Warrant in the word you have none; that such pains do always or ordinarily accompany the wicked, the contrary may rather be thence collected. For when the wicked shall say, 
q 1. Thess. 5.  Peace and safety, then shall sudden destruction come upon them. Peace and safety in the pains of hell I suppose they have nor cause, nor will to say. In Peace then & safety, not in the pains of the damned, are many, if not most of the wicked till destruction come upon them, which is not always, nor ordinary, since they can be destroyed but once, and until that time their ease and abundance make them forget God.  

r Defenc. pag. 141. li. 18.  Again you pretend to have much against me where I say, the feeling of the sorrwes of God's wrath due to sin in a broken and contrite heart is indeed the only true and perfectly accepted sacrify to God. True so I said, and again I say it. What see you annsse in it? Then unhappy men are the godl●…e (say you) which are at any time free from the pains of the damned, to what purpose is this? I speak of Christ's sacrifice. Thus your triumphs before the victory come to nothing but blasts of vanity.] If I mistook your meaning, you are the more beholding to me; the sense, which you now express, is worse than that I charged you with; and yet I took your words, as they lay, which because they were namely applied neither to Christ nor to us by you, I pressed you with the lesser absurdity of the twain. Why your words might not be referred to the faithful, I saw no cause; David confessing that the 
s Psal. 51. v. 17.  sacrifices of God (he meaneth esteemed and required of God) are a troubled spirit, and a contrite and broken heart causeth the sacrifice of righteousness to be accepted. I strained your words no farther than David's, but said you mi●…construed the words of the holy Ghost; if you took a broken and contrite heart repenting his former sins for the pains of hell suffered in the soul. You now say, you meant this of Christ, that his broken and contrite heart feeling the most vehement pains of the damned was the only true, and perfectly accepted sacrifice to God, and ask me what I see amiss in this? I will soon tell you. Where I would have charged you with a single error against the Godly, by reason your words are indistinct and doubtful, you load yourself with a double injury against God and his Son. For first the sacrifice of Christ's body, by which we are sanctified, as saith the Apostle, is excluded from being a true and perfectly accepted sacrifice, if the pains of hell in his soul be only the true sacrifice. Secondly a false sacrifice devised by yourself, and never offered by Christ, is obtruded by you unto God as the only true sacrifice, which he must perfectly accept: and so where before you blazed an untruth, you be now come to bolster it up with impiety. For where no Scripture doth witness, that Christ suffered any such sorrows and pains of hell, as you surmise, you now openly profess, that all sorrows and sacrifices besides this were neither true nor acceptable unto God, and that this your device surpas●…eth all the merits and obedience of Christ whatsoever.  

t Defenc. pag. 141. li. 30.  Where Austen seemeth to deny that Christ's soul might die, he denieth that Christ suffered any pains of damation locally in hell after his death, as it seemeth some held about his time, whom here he laboureth to confute.] If your ignorance were not every where patent, some man perhaps would stumble at your report: but you are grown to such a trade of outfacing, that almost you can do nothing else. That any such opinion was held in Austin's time, as you talk of, and that he laboured there to confute the same, is a mask of your making to hide your own blemishes; Austen refelleth that as a fable in exact words, when he saith, Quis audeat dicere, who dare say so? Now if some had so held, he must have said, some do say so; but who dare say so, is as much as no man dareth say so. If no man durst so to say, than no man was so wicked or irreligious in Austin's time as to dare say, that Christ's soul died, which now is become the greatest pillar of your pater noster. As for suffering in hell locally, it is a fiction of yours fastened to S. Austen, he hath no such words, and therefore no such meaning.  

u Defenc. pag 141. li. 37.  He had no necessary cause ●…o speak of the second sense thereof, how the soul may be said to suffer death extraordinarily for sin imputed only, neither doth he speak against that in Christ] S. Austen a man would think had cause to know how we w●…re r●…d by Christ, and surely if he were ignorant thereof, you would not judge him worthy to be a Curate in your Conventicles: but show that he, who taught so much, and wrote so much (as his works declare) ever spoke word of your newfound redemption by the pains of hell suffered in the soul of Christ; or by the second death. Against it he often speaketh, when he so sound and sincerely collecteth out of the Scriptures, that Christ died for us the death of the body only, and not the death of the soul. And this how could it be a true or tolerable assertion, if the Scriptures did avouch, or the church in his time had professed the death of Christ's soul to be the chiefest part of our redemption for sin, and reconciliation to God? Wherefore never dream he had no necessary cause to speak of your sense; if your sense had been a part of the Christian faith, would any man in his right wits have asked, as Austen doth; Who dare avouch it? He discusseth the place of S. Peter, and when he cometh to those words, Christ was quickened in the spirit, or by the spirit, he resolveth this cannot be spoken of Christ's human soul, because that, which was afterwards quickened, was first mortified, and therefore we could not say, that Christ's human spirit or soul was restored to life, except we first yielded, that it was before subjecteth to death. Now that Christ's soul was ever dead, who durst avouch it? The reason, why Christ's soul could never die, he rendereth thus, for that the Scriptures acknowledge no death of the soul in any but sin and damnation, to neither of which the soul of Christ could be subject. 
x August. epist. 99  Certè anima Christi nullo mortificata peccato, vel damnatione punita est, quibus duabus causis mors animae intelligi potest. Surely the soul of Christ was neither dead with any sin, nor punished with damnation, which are the two ways how the death of the soul may be possibly understood. This collection of S. Augustine's out of the Scriptures touching the death of the soul is most sound, and cannot be shaken with all your shows and shifts, talk of ordinary and extraordinary as long as you will. That standing good, which yet we see immovable for all your battery, it followeth inevitably, that Christ ne did ne could die the death of the soul, ne may any man defend it, without apparent falsity and impiety. What proofs you have proffered against S. Augustine's conclusion, let the Reader judge, I must confess myself very blind, if he see any; for I see none, and therefore not only S. Augustine's words, but his reasons out of holy Scripture stand firm, and hold you fast to the grinding stone, being no way as yet countervailed or controlled, but with your vain speeches and most unlearned evasions.  

y Defence pag. 142. li. 2.  Nay according to Augustine's own definition of the souls dying it will easily appear, that Christ's soul may be said to have suffered some kind of death. Mors est spiritus, deseri a Deo. The death of the soul saith he, is Gods forsaking of it, but the Scripture saith, God did forsake him for a season: yea the Fathers also agree fully thereunto. Therefore by Anstins' definition largely and rightly taken, Christ may be said in some sense to have died in soul.] From your shifts you return again to your proofs, and neither barrel is better herring. The mayor you think, is Augustine's, the minor is Christ's own words, and what, trow you, should hinder the conclusion. This reason hath but three of your wont flowers, I must not say faults, the mayor is larger than Austen ever meant, and the minor no way matcheth it, except you quite alter the words of Christ, and the conclusion cometh nothing near to your purpose. Examine them in order. Not every forsaking of the soul is death, for the godly often in the Scriptures complain (as I have showed) that they are forsaken of God, when yet their souls live: but as life is repugnant to death, and God is the life of the soul, so till God have utterly forsaken the soul, she is not dead. Whiles she retaineth any fellowship of grace with God, who is her life, she is not dead, because she partaketh with life. As than death is the utter privation of life, so God must utterly forsake the soul, before she can be pronounced to be dead; and that kind of forsaking is indeed the death of the soul in this life. So that your mayor, if ever you will come near S. Augustine's meaning, must be the death of the soul is God's utter forsaking of the same. And that thus you must construe S. Augustine's words, appeareth every where by his 
z In Psal. 70. in johan. tract. 47. de verbis Apost. Serm. 30.  comparison with the death of the body, which is not dead, till the soul be utterly departed from it. For as the body which hath in it any power or presence of the soul, is not dead but living, so the soul, that hath any communion with God who is her life, can not be truly said to be dead, but as yet to have life. Were you no Divine, but a plain Sophister, reason teacheth you so to understand S. Augustine's words: for where life and death be privatives, as well in the soul, as in the body, the one hath no place, till the other be utterly quenched. He is not blind, that hath any sight; nor deaf that hath any hearing; the privation utterly excludeth the habit; neither is the soul dead, that hath any force or effect of life in her, and consequently not every forsaking, but only an utter forsaking of God is the death of the soul here in this life.  
Your minor then should be, that Christ's Soul was utterly forsaken of God, which are not the words of Christ on the cross, nor any way consonant to them: yea the very entrance to that speech, when Christ said, My God, my God, doth prove the quite contrary. 
a Matth. 22.  God is not the God of the dead, but of the liviug. Then directly by the plain words of Scripture, when Christ said, My God, my God, his soul confessing God to be his God, was living, and consequently the words following, why hast thou forsaken me, do net prove the death of the soul, unless you make the Son of God so unwise as not to understand, what he said, or so amazed, that he marked not his own speech; which with you perchance is no absurdity, but with me it is a wicked and unchristian impiety. Christ's words therefore import, that he found a kind of forsaking, but not that his soul was forsaken of the truth, grace, or spirit of God, these be blasphemies to avouch, and no points of pietic; nor that he was utterly or altogether forsaken, which only is the death of the soul. And against this wresting of Christ's words from their right sense, how many testimonies of scriptures and Fathers have I sormerly brought? all which you trip over with a light foot, and make as though you felt them not. You have been told, 
b Galat 3.  the just shall live by saith. So that if Christ wanted not faith, he could not choose but live in soul. Again, 
c 1. john 4.  God is 〈◊〉, and he that dwelleth in love dwelieth in God. Christ then must either have life, or want love, for the love of God is the life of the soul. Farther, the Spirit of God is the 
d Rom. 8.  spirit of life, that quickeneth the soul; yea then 〈◊〉 thereof is life and peace. Then must you take from Christ the spirit of God with all the gifts and graces thereof, before you can deprive the soul of Christ from life. What an hellish heap of blasphemies are here before you can affirm, that Christ's soul was dead according to the Scriptures, & according to Augustine's meaning, who herein joineth with the Scriptures. Christ then ly●…ing in soul with perfect obedience and patience, and assuredly knowing God to be his God, & his Father, complaineth that he was left or forsaken, that is, either not delivered from his troubles & afflictions, but left in sinners hands, to do their pleasure with him; or devested of his power, and left through weakness unto death, which should for a season sever his soul from his body; or lastly lest in this shame of the cross, & anguish of body, without any open or sensible show or sign of God's favour towards him, or care for him. All these kinds of forsaking the learned and ancient Fathers acknowledge in Christ on the cross, and other forsaking of the soul they admit none, howsoever you falsely pretend their full agreement.  
Come now to your conclusion, if you could evince that Christ's soul was utterly forsaken of God, and deprived of life, which you can never; and to offer it, will convince you of heinous and wilful heresy and blasphemy: yet can you conclude no more, but the death of the soul in this life, which is either ignorance or contempt of God; Hell pains you cannot infer, nor the torments of the damned, which are the second death; and so your great flourish out of Austen for the death of Christ's soul is but a ●…aw. And the Reader may see, with what understanding and conscience you read and allege the Fathers, that where you acknowledge 
e Defenc. pag. 142. li. 12.  they do deny this phrase generally, that Christ died in soul, yet you boldly and lewdly affirm the next line before, they 
f li. 11.  grant the thing in effect; as if they denied that in words, which indeed they knew to be a part of the Christian faith, and were like you, who shift and lie for life to support your own Devices. But in all these shows of yours the advised Reader shall find nothing but a careless and senseless resolution to say any thing, rather than to admit a truth, or to relent from the least of your conceits: whereof he may have a full proof in your words next following.  

g Defence pag. 142. li. 16.  Let this be the answer touching all your Fathers and Counsels, which you bring abundantly (here and there) about this point of the soul's death.] A short answer indeed, if it had either truth or sense in it. It is right a colts trick when he will not or can not endure the load, to cast the whole pack off at once. That they generally deny the death of Christ's soul, you grant; and with a brazen face, and barren head you add, they mean otherwise; they deny not the thing, but only the phrase. What is this, but to supp●… up the truth with a sad countenance, and to belch forth your shame with open mouth? had you examined their places, your shifts, sleights, and untruths would have loaden a carat; you have better now provided for yourself, with belying them all at once, you have incurred but one inconvenience. But like is your Defence to your cause, it entered first with advantage of phrases, and so it will end with a windmill of words. Well, that the Christian Reader may perceive, how ancient and universally consented and confirmed by the church of Christ this truth hath been, which I teach, that Christ died no death for our redemption, but the death of the body only; to those Fathers, which you say are abundantly brought by me already, I will add others, that though there be no care nor conscience in you, yet all men, in whom there is any sense, may see your device of the death of Christ's soul and of hell pains, and the most vehement torments of the damned suffered by him, to be not only a falsity repugnant to the Scriptures, but a novelty against the main consent and confession of all antiquity. If their testimonies be long and many, thou wilt b●…are with me Christian Reader, I hope; the expense of a little paper to me, or pain to thee is not so dear, as the cause itself both for thy direction, and for my discharge. First then thou shalt hear, that Christ died in body alone, which is my assertion: and withal that Christ died not in soul, which is their conceit, contradicted by all the Fathers; and in the end we will shortly view whether these Fathers cross their new found redemption in words, o●… matter. The places I think good to repeat in Latin or Grecke, as much as shall need, (which otherwise I refrain of purpose to decrease the volume lest it should be too great) that the Reader should ncither distrust my translating, nor make long search for the words themselves in each Writer, if happily he desire to see them.  
Tertullian proving the resurrection of our bodies by Christ's example, saith, 
h Tertull. de Resurrect. carmis. ca 48.  Sine dubio, si mortuum, sisepultum audis secundum scripturas, NON ALIAS QVAM IN CARNF, aequ●… resuscitatum in carne conced ●…ipsum enim quod ●…idit in mortem, quod iacuit i●…sepulchro, hoc & resurrexit, non tam Christus in carne, quam caro Christi. Without 
Christ died no death of the soul by the judgement of all the Fathers.  question, if thou hear that CHRIST DIED that he was buried, according to the Scriptures NONE OTHERWISE THAN in the flesh, thou wilt grant that he was likewise raised in the flesh. For that very thing which fell by death, which lay in the grave, that surely rose, not so much Christ in the flesh as the flesh of Christ. And in the same place: Dominus 
i Ibidem.  quanquam animam circumferret trepidantem usque ad mortem, sed non cadentem PER MORTEM. The Lord though he carried about a soul fearing unto death, YET NOT FALLING BY DEATH. Origen, 
k Origen. li. 5. in ca 5. epist. ad Romanos.  By sin (saith Paul) came death, that death no doubt, whereof the Prophet saith, the soul that sinneth, the same shall die, whereof a man may justly call this bodily death a shadow. For whither soever that pierceth, of force this followeth as a shadow doth the body. If a man object, that our Saviour did no sin, neither was there in him the death of the soul by reason of any sin, and yet he sustained a corporal death: we will answer him; that where Christ owed this death to none, nor was obnoxious to it, yet for ●…ur salvation of his own accord, and by no necessity he undertook this (so above called) shadow (of death.) 
l Ibidem.  This common death than he did undergo, but that death of sin, which reigned over all others, he did not admit. Athanasius: 
m Athanas. contra Arianos oratione 3.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉? What else was that which was crucified, but the body (of Christ?) And again: Christ's 
n Ibidem.  resurrection could not be without death. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉? And how could death have had place in him, if he had not had a mortal body? And again:  

o Idem de incarnate. verb●….  Death of itself could not appear but in the body; and therefore Christ put on a body, that finding death in his body he might abolish it. Ambrose; 
p Ambros. de fide ad Gratianum. li. 3. ca 5.  Who is he that would have us partakers of his flesh and blood? Surely the Son of God. Quomodo nisi per carnem particeps factus est noster, aut PER QVAM, NISI CORPORIS MORTEM, mortis vincula dissoluit? IN QVO NISI IN CORPORE, expia●…t peccata populi? IN QVO PASSUS EST, NISI IN CORPORE? Sicut & supra diximus, Christo secundum carnem passo. How was he made our Partner but by flesh; and by what death, other than the death of his body, did he dissolve the bands of death? WHEREIN, BUT IN HIS BODY, did he expiate the sins of the people? WHEREIN, BUT IN HIS BODY, did he suffer? As we said before, Christ suffered in the flesh. Chrysostom: 
q 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 
* 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  

r .  We died a double death, therefore we must look for a double resurrection. Christ died but one kind of death, therefore herose but one kind of resurrection. Adam died body and soul; he died to sin, and to nature. In what day soever ye eat of the tree, said God, ye shall die the death. That very day Adam did not die (in which he did eat) but he than died to sin, and long after to nature. The first is the death of the soul, the other is the death of the body. For the death of the soul is sin or everlasting punishment. To us men there is a double death, and therefore we must have a double resurrection. To Christ there was but one kind of death, for he sinned not, and that one kind of death was for us. He owed no kind of death, for he was not subject to sin, and so not to death. Therefore he as free from sin rose but one 〈◊〉. We as g●…e of sin, die a double death, and so must have a double resurrection. This Sermon, whence these words are taken, thought it be not amongst Chrysostom's printed Volumes, yet besides that it was published in print by FRONTO DVC●…VS, it is found in the written Greek copy of Chrysostom lying in New College Library in Oxford, whence these words are taken little differing from the printed copy.  
Out of Augustine though much be said, and much more might be; yet think I not meet to omit some places as well for the clearness as the rareness of them, some of them being sufficiently witnessed unto us by others, though they be not found at this day among his printed works. And first of those that are found: 
s August. de 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 4 ca 3.  Vtrique rei nos●…, id est, & animae & corpori medicina & resurrectione opus crat. Mors animae impiet as est, & mors corporis corruptibilitas. Sicut enim anima Dco deserente, sic corpus anima deserente n●…ur, unde ill●… sit insipiens, hoc exanime. Huic ergo DUPLAE MORTI NOSTRAE Sal●…or impendit SIMPLAM SVAM, & adf●…ciendam utramque resuscitationem nostram in Sacramento & exemplo praeposuit & proposuit unam SVAM. Neque enim fuit peccator aut imp●…, ut et tanquam spiritu mortuo in interiori homine renovari opus esset: sed Indutus carne mortali, EA SOLA MORIENS, EA SOLA RESURGENS, EA SOLA NOBIS ad utrumque concinuit, cum in ea fieret interioris hominis sacramentum, 〈◊〉 exemplum. Either part of us, that is, both soul and body, needed curing and raising. The death of the soul is impiety, and the death of the body corruptibility. As the soul dieth when God for saketh her, so the body dieth when the soul for saketh it, whereupon the one is soolish, the other senseless. To this double death of ours, our Saviour applied his single death, and to make a double resurrection in us, he preferred and proposed his one kind of death for a Sacrament, and for a Precedent: for he was no sinner or wicked person, that he should need any renewing, as one dead in spirit, but putting on mortal flesh, and dying in that ALONE, and rising in that ALONE, he fitted that ALONE to both our (deaths) placing therein a Sacrament for our inward man, and an example for our outward. So again: 
t Idem contra 〈◊〉 Arianum. ca 16. ca 18.  Sensit mortem (Christus) sicut omnes sentiunt, qui mori●…nte carne mentibus viwnt, etc. Credo mortuum esse filium Dei, illa quae secundum naturam generalis est cunctis, non illa, quae specialis est malis. Christ felt death, as all feel it, who dying in the flesh live in their spirits. I believe the Son of God died that death, which by Nature is common to all, not that which is proper to evil men. The words which the second Council of Hispalis doth cite out of S. Augustine's writing against Maximinus, are worth the hearing, though they be not now in his printed works, as many other things are not, which Bede and others allege out of him: 
u Concilium Hispalens. 2. ca 13. ex August. adversus Maximinum.  Vbi resurgit nisi in eo, quod potuit cadere? Vbi resurrexit nisi in eo ubi mortuus? Quaere mortem in verbo, nunquam esse potuit. QVAERE MORT●…M IN ANIMA, NUNQVAM IBI FVIT. Quaere mortem in carne, planè ibi fuit. Et paulò pòst, Quid miraris? Nec mortua est anima, nec verbum mortuum est. CARO TANTUM MORTVA EST. Where was Christ raised, but in that which might fall? Wherein did he rise, but in that wherein he died? Seek for death in (his) deity, it could never be there. Seek for death in his SOUL, IT NEVER WAS THERE. Seek for death in his flesh, there was it indeed. And a little after, Why dost thou marvel? Neither was Christ's soul dead, nor his Godhead; ONLY HIS FLESH DIED. Neither want the same words in effect in his printed Sermons: 
x In johannem tractat. 47.  Hoc suscitabatur quod m●…ur. Nam verbum non est mortuum, anima illa non est mortua. That was raised (in Christ) which died. The Deity died not, yea his soul died not. 
y Ibidem.  Quid fecit mors nisi corpus ab anima separavit? in morte sola caro est a judaeis occisa. What did death in Christ more than sever his body from his soul? in death his flesh only was killed of the jews.  
The council itself adding of their own saith. 
z Concilium Hispalens. 2. ca 13  Prophetia quoque in psalmis passionem Christi in carne sola sic asserit. Foderunt manus meas & pedes meos, dinumer averunt omnia 〈◊〉. Vbi non deitatis, sed tantum crucifixi corporis iniuria intelligitur. Sola in Christo materia carnis mortis fragilitate defuncta spem resurrectionis expectabat. The prophesy in the Psalms avouch the passion of Christ in the flesh only, when it saith they pierced my hands and my feet, and numbered all my bones. Where not the injury of his deity but of his body is perc●…aued in Christ the matter only of his flesh yielding to the srailty of death expected resurrection. Petrus quoque Apostolus Christi supplicium sic praedicat in solo corpore consummatum: 
a Ibidem.  qui peccata (inquit) nostra pertulit in corpore suo super lignum. Peter also the Apostle preacheth the passion of Christ to have been performed ONLY IN HIS BODY, when he saith Christ bare our sins in his body on the tree. And again 
b Ibidem.  Sola caro crucis exitium sensit, sola caro lanceam pertulit, sola sanguine & aqua manavit. Ipsa sola mortua, ipsa sola in sepulchro posita ipsa sola tertio dic resuscitata. Only the flesh of Christ tasted the sharpness of the Cross, only the flesh endured the spear; only the flesh yielded forth blood and water. That only died, that only lay in the grave, that ONLY ROSE AGAIN. And assuring themselves this to be the Christian faith confirmed in the old and new testament, they say, 
c Ibidem.  Ecce pronunciata est passio corporis Christi ex lege & Prophetis. Cuius quidem fidei verit as tam est efficax, ut eam nec tyranni sua potuerint crudelitate confundere, nec haereticorum subdola circum●… to pessumdare, n●…c hypocritarum diminuere fallax simulatio. The passion of the body of Christ is proved by the law and the Prophets. The truth of which faith is so forcible, that neither tyrants with their ●…rucltie could confound it, nor Heretics with their crafty devices evert it, nor Hypocrites with their false dissembling diminish it.  
Theodoret. 
d Theodoret. Dialogo. 3.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; how could the soul (of our Saviour) having an immortal nature, and not touched with the least spot of sin, be possibly taken with the hook of death? Cyril. 
e Cyril. de recta fide ad R●…. li. 1.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. If we conceive Christ to be God incarnate, and suffering in his own flesh, the death of his flesh alone sufficeth for the redemption of the world. Fulgentius. 
f Fulgentius a●… I 〈◊〉. li. 3. ca 7.  Quis ignoret Christum nec in divinitate sed IN SOLO CORPORE MORTWM & sepultum. Who can be ignorant, that Christ was dead and buried, not in his deity, but in his body only. Cum sola caro moreretur, & resuscitaretur in Christo, filius Dei dicitur mortuus. Idem Christus secundum solam carnem mortuus, secundum solam animam ad insernum descendit. When the flesh only died, and was raised again in Christ, the Son of God is said to have died. The same Christ died in his flesh only, and descended into hell in his soul ONLY. 
g Idem. ca 5.  Moriente carne non solum Dietas, sed nec anima Christi potest ostendi commortua, The flesh dying, not only the deity, but the soul of Christ cannot be showed to have been also dead. The same Father and fifteen other Bishops of Africa make this confession of their faith. 
h .  Mors silij Dei quam sola carne suscepit, utramque in nobis mortem, animae scilicet carnisque destruxit. The death of the Son of God, which he SUFFERED IN HIS FLESH ALONE, destroyed in us both our deaths, to wit the death of soul & body. This confession Gregory followed when he said, 
i Gregorius in 〈◊〉. li. 4. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉.  Solumpro nobis mortem carnis suscepit. Christ undertook for us the only death of the flesh. And again, coming to us, who were i●… the death of spirit and flesh, Christ brought his own death to us, and loosed both our deaths. His s●…le death 〈◊〉 applied to our double death, and dying vanquished our double death. Vigius 
k .  Secundum proprietatem naturae, sola car●… mort●…m s●…t, sola caro sepulturae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Ergo 〈◊〉 dominum iacuisse in sepulchro, s●…d in sola carne, & Dominum d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. According to the propriety of nature, only the 〈◊〉 (of Christ) 〈◊〉 death, only the ●…sh was buried. Therefore we say the Lord lay in the gr●…ue, but in flesh alone, and descended into hell, but in SOVIE A●…ONE. Bede treadeth just in their steps. 
l 〈◊〉 in ca 10. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  Hoc 〈◊〉 quod m●…atur. Nam verbum 〈◊〉 non potuit, 〈◊〉 anima illa mortua ●…it. Caro tantum mortua est, & resurrexit tertia 〈◊〉. That was raised, which died, the Godhead could not die; his soul was not dead, only his flesh died and r●…se again. And again, 
m Idem Homi●… 4. in 〈◊〉.  Veniens adnos, qui in morte carnis & spiritus eramus, unam suam, id est, carnis mortem pertulit; & duas nostras absoluit: simplam suam nostrae dupl●… co●…t, & dulpam nostram subegit. Christ coming to us that were in death of body and spirit, suffered only one death, that is the death of the flesh, and freed both our deaths: ●…ee applied his one death to our double death, and vanquished them both. Albinus. 
n .  Quid significat morte morieris? duplicem mortem ●…ominis designat, animae videlicit & corp●…s. Animae mors est, dum propt●…r peccatum quodlib●…t animam d●…t Deus. Corporis ●…rs est dum propter necessitatem quamlibet corpus descritur ●…b anima. Et hanc dupl●…m Christus sua 〈◊〉 destruxit. Name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est ad tempus, anima vero nunquam, qui nunquam peccavit. What is meant ●…y this t●…ou shal●…●…e the death? it noteth a double death in man, to wit, of soul and body. The death of the soul is when for any sin God forsaketh it, the death of the 〈◊〉 is w●…en for any necessity the body is deprived of the soul. This double death of 〈◊〉, Christ destroyed with his single death; for he died only in 〈◊〉 for a time, but in soul he never died, who never sinned. This continued without change to Bernard's time, who saith of Christ, 
o .  Ex dua●…s 〈◊〉 nostris, cum a●…ra nobis in cu●… 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 reputaretur, sus●…ns p●…am & nes●…ns culpam, dum spon●…é & TANTVM●…N CORPORE MORITUR, & vitam nobis & 〈◊〉 prom●…ur. Of our two deaths, where one was the desert of 〈◊〉, the other the d●…e of punishment, Christ's taking our punishment but 〈◊〉 from sin, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dieth willingly and ONLY IN 〈◊〉, he me●…h ●…or us life and 〈◊〉.  
I have been the longer good Reader in alleging these fathers, to assure thee that I deliver no doctrine touching our redemption; but ●…uch as the whole Church of Christ in the best & purest times professed to be principles of the Christian faith; and that in so evident and pertinent manner, that I know not how to lighten or strengthen their words. Thou hearest them with one voice affirm, that Christ died not A DOUBLE, but A SINGLE death for us; which they likewise a●…ch was the death of HIS BODY ONLY, AND NOT OF HIS SOVL●…; and TH●… DEATH OF THE SOUL HE DIED NOT. The death of the soul they truly derive from the Scriptures to be either sin, or damnation: sin, by which men are deprived of all grace, and so of the life of God: and damnation, which is a perpetual rejection from all bliss, addicting the wicked to eternal and intolerable misery in the torments of hell fire. Which of these things will this dreamer deny? will he say, that Christ died more deaths than ONE, and as well the death of the soul, as of the body? So he must say, if he will uphold his new redemption by the death of Christ's soul, and so he doth say: but whether there in he cross not the full consent of Christ's whole Church, I leave it to thy censure. Will he shift, as he hath hitherto done, with the name of flesh, that it compriseth as well the soul as the body, and therefore by the death of Christ's flesh only, the Fathers do not exclude the death of Christ's soul, but the death of his Godhead? they prove indeed against the Arians, that the Son of God could not die in his Divine nature, but only in his human flesh. And this, as we now see, is one of their main reasons: The soul of Christ died not, nor could die; much less than his Godhead. And therefore the most of them do express that argument, utterly denying that Christ's soul died any kind of death, but only his flesh. Besides a number of them not only expres●…e by circumstances and consequents of burying and rising again, what the rest mean by the flesh, but they use the word 〈◊〉, which can not be taken for the soul, and with like zeal and truth avouch, that Christ died in his body only. So that these three stand for clear and sound conclusions with all these Fathers: First, that Christ died BUT ONE KIND of death. Secondly, that HE DIED ONLY IN HIS FLESH, OR BODY; and thirdly, that THE DEATH OF THE SOUL HE NEITHER DID, NOR COULD DIE.  
Will he shu●…e with the name of death, and say they meant not his kind of death? that will nothing relieve him. For first if Christ died but one kind of death; and of his bodily death no Christian may so much as doubt, then by main consequent out of their words, Christ died no death of the soul, let him take it how and which way he will. Again, if Christ DIED ONLY IN BODY, as they likewise witness, then apparently he died not any death of the soul, neither in your sense Sir Defenser nor in theirs. Lastly, what death of the soul can you show mentioned in the Scriptures without the compass of their division, that is, which is not sin, or damnation? Of sin the Apostles words are plain. 
p Rom. 7.  Sin seduced me, and slew 〈◊〉; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and I died; as likewise that 
q ●…hes. 2.  
q Coloss. 2.  we were dead in (our) sins. This death men li●…ing may die, as the Apostle saith of wanton widows, 
r ●…. Tim. 5.  living she is dead; and of all the Gentiles 
s ●…phes. 4.  walking in the vanity of their mind, they are strangers from the life of God, through the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart, who being past feeling have given themselves to work all uncleanness even with greediness. Where the hardness of man's heart, void of all feeling or 〈◊〉 of God, and so running on in all wickedness, is by the Apostle defined to be the death of the soul which is a depriving or ●…anging from the life of God. The second death, as I before have showed, is the la●…e burning with fire and brimstone, into which the devil and all the wicked shall be cast. Show now a third death of the soul not in your extraordinary fancy and folly, but in the word of God; to which these Father's proportion their speeches. If there be no such thing there, then directly, earnestly, and truly do these Fathers avouch, that Christ d●…ed no death of the soul.  
Of Fathers it may be your Mastership maketh small account, and will not stick in the high persuasion of your great and deep learning to reject them all, as ignorant of the principles of their faith, and so fitter to be taught then to teach: but that proud peevishness (to give it no worse words) I leave to the sober to censure: for an upshot the Reader shall have a clear conclusion out of the sacred Scriptures, that the soul of Christ never was, nor could be dead; and consequently that these learned and ancient Fathers delivered sound and true doctrine touching the soul of Christ, and 
The soul of Christ living by gra●…e, could no way be dead.  fully build their as●…ertions on the main foundations of the Divine Scriptures. It is evident by nature, sense, and truth, that privatives can not concur at one and the same time, in one and the same subject. For the one expelleth the other, and so can not be found both together. Yea since the one of them clearly removeth the other, they can no more stand together, then may contradiction. For that which liveth, is not dead; and that which is dead, liveth not. I mean always the same time, and the same part. But the soul of Christ by the manifest and manifold testimonies of holy Scripture did always live in the fullness of faith, of hope, of love, of grace, of truth, of spirit. It is evident therefore that the soul of Christ never died, nor could die. Which of these assertions will you encounter? that Christ's soul may be alive and dead both at one time? You would seem the leaf before, to shun the shame of 
t Defenc. pag. 140. li. 25.  this absurdity, that Christ's soul died and died not: will you now come plainly and grossly to it by avouching that Christ's soul was at one and the same time LIVING AND NOT LIVING, DEAD AND NOT DEAD, that is both ALIVE AND DEAD? If you do, there is no man in England that hath either eyes or ears to see or hear, but he will reprove you for a manifest beliar of his sense, as well as of Christ's soul. Will you smoothly set yourself to one side, and say that Christ's soul was not alive? so many parts of life, as I have named in the soul of Christ, so many pregnant proofs are there in holy Scripture that Christ's soul was not only living, but as full of life as of grace during the whole time of his passion. Neither is there any one of those things named by me concerning the life of Christ's soul, which you can take from Christ without apparent blasphemy. For if you deprive him of saith, hope, love, grace, tru●…th, or the spirit of God; you leave him in Infidelity, desperation, hatred of God, reprobation, falsehood, and make him no way the Son of God, since they only are the sons of God, who are led by the spirit of God. Now what shameful and impious enormities these are, you can easily conjecture. So that of force you must confess the soul of Christ to be living, and endued with all these parts and powers of the life of God, or else you must profess yourself to be nothing less than a Christian. And even the prayers which he made and obedience which he showed in all and every his conflicts and agonies, prove his soul not only to live, but to rest assuredly on the favour and love of God towards him, which are no fruits nor effects of the death of the soul, but exactly the conrrarie.  
Yet pain you think Christ might all this while suffer, and that most extreme; which you call the death of the soul.] Your calling sweet sower, good bad; light darkness, and life death; changeth not the natures of the things, but conuinc●…th your own ignorant and wilful headiness. You must call things in Christ, not as pleaseth your fancy, but as the word of God directeth; and by witness thereof shall you never be able to prove, that Christ's soul was dead; since thence so many sure demonstrations may be brought, that Christ's soul was always 
u john 1.  full of truth and grace, and of the Holy Ghost, not only in a greater abundance than either man or Angel hath, or can have, but above all measure. And in this state if we should imagine with you, that 
x john 3.  Christ's soul suffered the greatest sense of torments that any creature can feel, yet this doth not infer Christ's soul to be dead, but expressly the contrary, since all pain, 
The soul of Christ in her greatest pains did most show the life of patience and obedience to God.  yea if it were possible, pain equal with hell itself suffered in this life with obedience and patience, (such as all Christ's sufferings were, except you will wrap him as well within sinning as suffering) doth convince the soul of Christ to be rather living then dead; as the martyrs of Christ had their souls then most living in their greatest torments, when force of intolerable pain excluded their spirits from their bodies. And therefore I do not a little marvel how lightly you leap to determine and defend the death of Christ's soul, since all pain endured with patience, obedience, and confidence, proveth the soul to be most alive to godward, even when she departeth, as not able to sustain the fury and violence of the torment increasing. And herein appeareth your notable error in calling that the death of Christ's soul, which the Scripture calleth his obedience and victory. For he was 
y Phil. 2.  obedient to the death, even the death of the Cross; that is, in all his sufferings unto the end: he 
z revel. 3.  overcame, and sat with his Father in his Throne, as we overcoming shall sit with Christ in his Throne. And other conquest in our conflicts there is none, then constant resisting all temptations, and patient enduring all afflictions, which Christ did before us, and we must after him by his example, both which are most ●…uident ●…ignes & effects of the life and strength of the soul. To believe, and love God, to hope in him, and call on him in pro●…perity, declareth the soul to be 〈◊〉, but in ad●…ty and extrea●…ty to continue and 〈◊〉 those duties of piety; are as for●…ible powers and parts of the life of the soul, as the Scripture maketh any. Wherefore it is a gross oversight in you to call that the death of the soul, which the Scripture maketh the life of the soul, and to pronounce Christ's soul to be dead in those respects, which the word of God teacheth to be the chiefest proofs of the life of the soul.  
If you slide from the sense of absolute and inherent pain to the fear and horror of dereliction and desperation in the soul of Christ (for you role at your pleasure from one to another, and are constant in nothing, but in general and doubtful speeches, as were the first authors of this conceit;) and make that the death of the soul; 
No temptations without desperation kill the soul.  then know you that these temptations kill not the soul, till they plant infidelity and desperation in the soul of man from which I trust you will clear Christ, or else I m●…st ask what difference betwixt you and a Turk. For the jews were not so wicked, as to take from Christ his trust in God, they said of him, as he hung on the Cross, 
a Matth. 27.  he trusteth in God, but they thought God had failed him in suffering him to come to that cursed kind of death, wherein they knew not the wisdom or power of God. But no Christian can be excused by ignorance, if he diminish the faith, hope, love, patience or obedience of Christ in all his sufferings; and those not decreasing, it was no way possible for the soul of Christ to be but living, yea full of life & grace, how great soever the pains were, which he endured, or the temptations which he resisted. So that both fathers and Scriptures pursue you narrowly to this strait, that Christ's soul must either always live, and so your doctrine is utterly false, which avoucheth the death of Christ's soul to be the ground of our redemption; or if it died, it must die with sin, since without sin there is no death of the soul; and all pains and torments, that are possible in this life, if they be suffered with obedience and patience, do rather demonstrate the life, then confirm the death of the soul, even in the person of Christ jesus.  

b Defenc. pag. 142. li. 24.  But our authorised Catechism published by master Nowell and the homily showeth that Christ suffered far more sharply then mere bodily death, even the infinite pains of God's wrath in his soul: which I pointed you unto before, but you fairly leap it over.] You bely the one, and confute the other; and then charge me with leaping them both over. The homily which indeed is authorised, hath no such thing, as you report; the Catechism, which is only approved to be taught to children in schools, hath more than you any way like or receive, and yet not that, which you now defend. The sorrow and pain, which the Catechism supposeth in Christ's soul, was the fear and horror of eternal death; that you not only refuse in plain words, but refel with many reasons, as you think. The like you do for Christ's descent to hell, which the Catechism confesseth to be, not the presence of Christ's soul in Paradise, but an effectual force thereof in hell, whereby the souls of the faithless saw their damnation to be just, and the Devil himself perceived all his power to be destroyed and overthrown. If you regard the Catechism so highly as you pretend, why slip you from it in these or other points at your pleasure? why obtrude you that to others as authorised, which yourself do not admit? indeed some men have of late years inclined to vehement and violent temptations offered to the soul of Christ in his sufferings, and some to fears and horrors even of eternal death, as master Calvin, and the Catechism, which you cite; but if you may be suffered to shrink from them at your liking, never blame me, if I do not prefer them before all these fathers. Howbeit to speak uprightly without wronging them, I do not see, that either the Catechism or master Calvin do expressly defend the death of Christ's soul, or the second death, but only the fear and horror, not of a temporal hell, as you have distilled their infusion, but of eternal death; which you with might and main reject. And surely if they did contradict the confession of all these fathers, I would adhere to the primative church of Christ in matters of faith, rather than to the devices of late writers dissenting from themselves and others. But touching the death of Christ's soul I see no cause to depart from them, since they define no such thing, and therefore they a●…e idly alleged by you even as the rest are by you proudly neglected. And till you leave this contemning of ancient Fathers, and straining of later writers beyond their meaning, I for my part think you worthy of no charge in the church of Christ, neither of that you had, wherein you sowed as much cockle as corn, nor of that you may have, except you change your mind; and learn to teach nothing to the people of God, but what is warranted by the word of God.  

c Defenc. pag. 142. li. 36.  ` You say I should have done well to have laid down for a show, which is written in Easie he laid down his soul unto death; Verily if I had, it would have made some show.] I said indeed the Prophet Esay would make a better show for the death of Christ soul, than the Poet Terence, whom only you produced for proof thereof: but such was then and still is your presumption, that on your bare word you will pronounce, what best pleaseth your fancy. Howbeit the words of Esay are but a show for the death of Christ's soul, since they exactly declare his bodily death to be the redemption of mankind. For when the soul in the Hebrew tongue, and in the old Testament is said to die, either by the soul are meant the vegetative and sensitive powers of the soul, whereby the spirit of man is united to his body, and which are quenched by death; or by death is meant the distraction of the soul from the body, which violence of death is common as well to the soul thrust from her body, as to the body left without a soul. That signification of the word soul the Apostle showeth, when he prayeth, the 
d 1. Thess. 5.  whole spirit, and soul, and body of the faithful may be kept bla●…lesse unto the coming of Christ, and saith 
e Hebr. 4.  The word of God pierceth to the dividing a sunder of the soul, and the spirit: And this sense of the word death the Scriptures express, when they often mention, that the souls of the godly do, or would die. When joseph's brethren would have slain him, Reuben said unto them; 
f Genes. 37. vers. 21.  Let us not strike him in the soul, that is, let us not kill him. So Balaam seeing the glory of God's people, said, 
g Numb. 23. vers. 10.  Let my soul die the death of the Righteous, and mine end be like his: that is, Let my soul depart in peace as the Righteous do. And lest any think, that Balaam spoke he knew not what, Samson willing to end his life with revenge of the dishonour done to God by the Philistines insulting at his bonds and blindness, when he pulled the house on his and their heads, said, 
h Iud●…. 16. vers. 30.  Let my soul die with the Philistines. So Elias weary of his life, 
i 1. Kings. 19 vers. 4.  desired for his soul to die, saying Lord take my soul; he meant from his body. So Moses comparing a rape with murder, saith. 
k Deuter. 22. vers. 26.  This is as if a man should fall upon his fellow, and kill him in the soul. And so jeremy to jerusalem, 
l jere 2. v 34.  In thy bosom is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents. Infinite places are there in the Scripture to like effect. All which declare, that the soul of man feeleth the death of the body by her departing from it; and that the Prophet Esay, when he said of Christ, He 
m Esa. 53. v. 12,  powered forth his soul unto death, Had no meaning but to describe Christ's bodily death, in which the soul is powered out from the body, that is, wholly separated from it. The very phrase of pouring forth the soul, which must needs be from the body, showeth that the Prophet directly described the death of Christ's body, by which the soul is emptied and powered out of the body, as out of a vessel replenished with it. So that here you have as much hold for the death of Christ's soul, as you had before, which is utterly none.  

n Defenc. pag. 143. li. 1.  You earnestly affirm that this word signifieth soul or spirit in a proper sense. Also how resolute are you forbidding to divert from the native and proper significations of words, but when the letter impugneth the grounds of Christian faith and charity.] In the Page; 167. which you quote, I neither spoke of this place, nor of this word; and therefore your considering cap was not on, when you so much mistook my words. I know Nephesh is applied as well to beasts, who have no souls, as to bodies once living, but then dead. And therefore of Nephesh I affirmed no such thing: of S. Luke's words repeating David's, and exactly distinguishing the soul from the flesh in Christ, I did indeed avouch, and still do, that we must not rashly depart from the proper significations of that and other words in the Scripture, except the letter breed some inconvenience to faith or good-maners. But what is that to this place, where though the word Nephesh be granted properly to import the soul, yet the rest showeth it to be referred to the death of the body, because the soul is powered forth of the body by the death thereof, where before it was contained and enclosed.  

o Defenc. pag. 143. li. 15.  The rather if we note that which followeth: he was counted with sinners; that is he was punished by God as sinners are punished, and not by the jews only counted among thieves.] You take upon you to control both the Prophet and the Evangelist; who refer this misjudging of Chri●…t to men, & not to God. Esay saith, 
p Esa. 53. v. 4.  We did judge him as plagued, and smitten of God, but he was wounded for our transgressions. And S. Mark, when the jews had crucified Christ amidst two thieves, saith; 
q Mark. 15. vers. 28.  Thus the Scripture was fulsilled, which saith he was counted among the wicked: Thereby noting their error, not Christ's desert. Besides it is somewhat saucily said, that Christ was accounted wicked in the righteous judgement of God, & not by the malicious error of the jews. Such pleasure you take against both Scriptures and Fathers to avouch what you list, yea though it draw with it an injurious slander to the son of God. The words of the Prophet, he 
t vers. 9  made his grave with the wicked, compared with those that solow, though he did no wickedness; clearly convince, that Christ was an innocent, though he were counted and used with malefactors; and that the Prophet never meant to correct God's judgement as corrupt, but to show the wisdom and goodness of God, delivering his Son to be esteemed and used as wicked by the wicked, and not by himself. Howbeit there is no necessity to refer these words to the person of God the Father, but they more fitly express the humility of Christ himself, who made his grave, that is, was content to die in the midst of two thieves, and to be buried as they were, considering the coherence with the words precedent; which out of all question must be understood of Christ himself. For thus they stand. 
s vers. 8.  He was cut out of the land of the living, he was plagued for the transgression of my people. 
t vers. 9  He made his grave with the wicked Where no reason forceth any change of persons; and so the same person of Christ, who was cut from the land of the living, made his grave with the wicked.  

u Defenc. pag. 143. li. 11.  But chiefly considering withal, that also before he made his soul a sin offering. Therefore you must needs grant, that God's word maketh Christ's soul to be sacrificed for our sin. And we desire no other death of the soul.] It is marvel you do not out of this place infer, that Christ's soul was made sin, for the words are, when he shall make his soul sin. But an offering for sin is the usual signification of that word in the Scriptures, and therefore you did well in confessing so much, to save me that labour. Christ then made his soul an offering for sin; what deduce you out of those words? [we desire no other death of the soul.] In faith you be a silly sacrificer, that know not a dead soul 
A dead soul is no sacrifice for sin.  to be no sacrifice for sin. A dead soul is void of all things, which should please God; and so can be no sacrifice accepted for sin. 
x Psal. 51.  A troubled spirit (sorrowing for sin) is a sacrifice to God, saith David. But doth repentance kill or quicken the soul? God 
y Acts 11.  giveth repentance unto life, that is, he raiseth the soul first dead in sin, by repentance unto life. 
z 2. Cor 7.  Worldly sorrow causeth death, but Godly sorrow causeth repentance unto salvation. Now salvation is not the death, but life of the soul. 
a Hebr. 11.  Without faith it is impossible to please God. And the sacrifice, that shall abolish sin, must needs please God. It must then not want faith, by which the righteous live. Wherefore by your leave I make the clean contrary conclusion out of those words. The soul of Christ was a sacrifice for sin; but a dead soul is no sacrifice for sin; the soul of Christ therefore was not dead. [Without death, you will say, there is no redemption for sin.] Without blood, which noteth the death of the body, there is no redemption for sin; but the soul, I trust, hath no blood to be shed. And so much the bodies of beasts offered, did prefigure, I mean the death of the body but not of the soul. Willing obedience, constant patience, and assured confidence in the soul of Christ submitting itself to the counsel and will of his Father, was the spiritual and inward sacrifice, which Christ joined with the external and bloody sacrifice of his body. For having two parts, as all men ha●…e, a soul and a body; neither part might be withdrawn from this sacrifice; but his body must be yielded unto death, and his soul must yield herself pure, undefiled, and void of all spot, yet feeling and enduring withal meekness and humbleness of heart, the pain of death separating her from her body. And grant the soul were here taken for life, what so great improper or unused speech is that, since the soul is truly and properly the life of the body.  

b Defenc. pag. 143. li. 16.  We deny not but this phrase, Animam ponere, is to lay down the life, and in divers plac●…s signifieth no more than simply to die, both concerning Christ and other men: yet this is no necessary reason that here in I say the soul should be taken figuratively for the life only; the rather seeing here the text precisely setteth down the great work of our redemption, and to take it as we do literally, impugneth no ground at all of faith or charity.] The words to lay down or power forth the soul import as you confess, not the death of the soul, but the death of the body. And since in the words of Esai, Christ powered forth his soul unto death, there can by no learning be more concluded out of that place, but that Christ willingly laid down his soul to depart from that body, which is no way the death of the soul, as you fancy, but a plain description of the death of Christ's body. And where for your pleasure you will take it literally, that is no proof for the death of Christ's soul, because the word soul may be properly taken, when it is powered forth of the body by death; but it noteth a willing submission to death, where otherwise our souls are taken from us, or we lose them whether we will or no, when we are left or put to death against our wills.  

c Defenc. pag. 143. li. 27.  Austen hath not a word against us, in that great place which you cite, his whole argument being to an other purpose.] Augustine's words in that place be pregnant against you for all your dissembling. 
d August. in johannem tractat. 47.  Quid fecit passio, quid fecit mors, nisi corpus ab anima separavit? What did (Christ's) passion, what did death, but separate (his) body from his soul? If the death and passion of Christ did nothing but separate Christ's soul from his body; then neither Christ's death nor passion prevailed to the death of his soul. And if his soul were not touched by death, than was it never dead: and so much Saint Austen witnesseth in the very same tractate. 
e Ibidem.  Verbum non est mortuum, anima illa non est mortua. The word died not, the soul (of Christ) died not. And therefore the death of Christ, which the Scriptures every where note, was the breathing of his soul out of his body, & not the separating of his soul from God, as you would have it. Augustine's purpose in that place you little conceive, if you make him have but one purpose. As occasion served he taught many things pertinent & incident to his text, which was large, even from the 10. verse unto the 20. of that 
f john 10.  Chapter: And these words, I lay down my soul for my sheep, being part of his text, he had just occasion to treat, what death Christ died for his sheep, which was neither the death of his deity, nor the death of his soul, but only the separating of his soul from his body, if this make not against you, you have good luck, that nothing will reach you: his words refute the foolish error, which you would establish, that by the Scriptures Christ may be said to have died the death of the soul, as well as the death of the body, which Austen expressly contradicteth, avouching the one, and denying the other, in as plain speech, as any wise man can require.  

g Defenc. pag. 143. li. 34.  All your other discourse here against me is almost nothing but revilings and reproaches and bitter scoffs. Yet you say you have not learned nor used to give reviling speeches. Have you not learned it? is it then natural unto you? N●…y you mean these are fatherly warnings and admonitions. If your fatherly admonitions are such, what are your Lordly rebukes? If these be your bishoply blessings, what are your cursings?] What my discourse is against 
H●… your defender 〈◊〉 some what pleasurable.  you, mu●…t be left neither to your censure nor mine, but to the Readers. If I called your conclusions bold and foolish, showing neither learning nor wit; but savouring only of the vanity of your own conceits, the truth forced me so to do, which I might not betray. When you rejected the judgements and expositions of the father's one after an other, as 
k Trea. pa. 69. li. 67. 68  fond and absurd, void of sense, reason, and likelihood; yea most absurd, and too fond to be spoken; and trampled on their names & credits, as you would on nutshells, affirming 
i Ibid. pa. 95. 96.  It is only the Father's abusive speaking and altering the usual and ancient sense of words, that bred this error; their unapt and perilous translating, that confirmed the same; and that is a thing too rife with the Fathers, yea with some of the ancient est of them, to alter and change the Authentic use of words, whereby it is easy for errors and gross mistake to creep in; is, or ought any good man to be so patient, or rather negligent as to hear a parrot thus prate against the whole Church of Christ in her best times next after the Apostles, and not only to spare his folly, but to reverence his pride? For my part I must confess, I took myself bound in duty to yield him no more regard, than he deserved, that thus sought to blaze his errors with contempt of all men save of himself. If therefore your absurd positions and proofs, S. Treatiser, did not justly provoke these replies, which I made, in the opinion of any wise and Christian Reader, I cry your mercy; but if you think me to blame for not taking you to be some Patriarch of Utopia, because you can scoff and mock as well at Bishops, as at fathers, Solomon adviseth me to answer some men according to their merits, 
k Prou. 26.  lest they seem wise in their own eyes. Your Mocks I remit to yourself, I am as ready to bear●… them for the truth, as you to give them. Howbeit you wanted colours in your coat, when you made such pastime with the blessing of Bishops; and pepper in your porridge, when I taking learned for skilful, (which is not strange to any save to you, whose skill is void of all good learning) you would needs make yourself such mirth, that railing must be natural to me, because I was not learned or expert therein. I wish these were the worst of your toys, and then my sufferance should quiet the whole.  

l Defenc. pag. 144. li. 8.  Finally that is not true, where you say, the flesh doth often signify the soul in us.] Is it ignorance or malice which driveth you to this waywardness, to avouch you know not, or care not what, so you seem to cross that I say? better learned than you, or I, observed that before me, which you affirm to be false. Austen saith, 
m August. d●… 〈◊〉 & Symbolo ●…a. 10.  Anima cum carnalia bona adhuc appetit, caro nominatur. The soul, so long as it affecteth fleshly things, is called flesh. And Ambrose. 
n Ambros. in 6. c●…. 〈◊〉. ad Romanos.  Caro aliquando corpus intelligitur, velipsa anima sequens corporea vitia. The flesh is sometimes understood to be the body of m●…, or the soul itself addicted to corporal vices. And jerom. 
o H●…. in 5. ca ●…pist. ad Galat.  Anima inter carnem spiritumque consistens, quando se tradiderit carni, caro dicitur. The soul consisting between the fles●… and the spirit, when it yieldeth itself to the flesh, is called flesh. And lest you clamour against these Fathers, as your Treatise doth, that they change the authentic use of words, hear what Zanchius a man of good judgement, though a late writer, saith thereof. 
p Zanchij tractat. Theologic●… de peccato originali Thes. 6.  Flesh and blood revealed not this unto thee, saith Christ to Peter. The mind of man he calleth flesh and blood: why so? because it is wholly corrupted by the flesh, so that it savoureth nothing but flesh. How think you Sir, is it true or false which I said, that the soul is often called flesh because of her corruption, as well as the body?  

q Defenc. pag. 144. li. 12.  here I desire the Reader to change a word or two in my former Treatise: for always to set usually, and for a Man to set Christ. Because since I find that flesh and spirit together applied to men do once (2. Corinth. 7. vers. 1. ) signify merely the body and soul. Which then I thought every where did signify in us our corrupt and regenerate man. Which oversight the Bishop spieth not, but in this place confirmeth. The Bishop, that professed he found few true sentences in your Treatise, had neither will nor leisure to traduce them all; but observing your errors in doctrine, remitted this and many other oversights as not prejudicing the main point in question. As for his confirming it, that is one of your usual verities, who by the defending of falsehood have gotten you such an habit, that you can scant see or speak a truth, when it toucheth but the skirts of your cause. And how come you now to put so great a difference betwixt always and usually, where before you did interpret always to be ordinarily? but now you find flesh and spirit together applied to men once to signify merely the body and soul. Mean you in all the Scriptures, or in the new Testament only? You call it the 
r Treatis. pag. 136. li. 8.  perpetual use of the Scripture, and so must include the old Testament as well as the new, except you will bar the old from being part of the Scripture. What then shall become of that, which Moses so often ascribeth to God, when he saith? 
s Numb. 16. & 27.  O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh. Prayeth he for the spirits of men, or of beasts? If you will straighten your words to the new Testament, how insolent a bragger, and negligent a Reader of the Scripture are you; that first said it was always so, and now correcting your error say you find it once otherwise, where a child might easily have found it oftener. The Apostle decreed the Offender at Corinth to be 
t 1. Co●…. 5.  delivered unto Satan, for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord. And to the Hebrews he telleth us, 
u Heb. 12.  We had fathers of our flesh, which corrected us, and we reverenced them. Should we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits? In both which places the spirit of force must signify the substance of man's soul.  

x Defenc. pag. 144. li. 19  Finally to make an end with your Fathers and Counsels, I have showed before that your large claim proveth a very short gain. For in substance and full effect they are evidently and generally against you and for us. If thou think Christian Reader, that I charge this man unjustly with impudent facing, behold but these words, and say what thou thinkest of them. He that hath not brought, nor can not bring one evident or pertinent word out of any Father for the death of Christ's soul; he yelleth out with open throat●…, that generally and evidently they are in substance and full effect for him and against me. It is no time here to repeat, what is past; by that which is said, thou mayst easily judge, on which side the Fathers stand with full confession of the truth and their faith. Bragging is boys play, where all performance wanteth. 
y li. 24.  [As for their denying that Christ died in his soul, I have answered before.] With senseless and shameful shifts, that Christ's soul died not as the body did, that he died not the ordinary death of the soul expressed in the Scriptures, but an extraordinary newly devised by yourself; and more than this in sum and substance you have not said one word. 
z li. 25.  [Further where you bring them in many places saying by his blood only he redeemed us, and he suffered only in his body, they are abused by you wonderfully, not in their words but in their meaning.] You would feign change dying into suffering, and have your Reader imagine, that I say Christ's soul suffered nothing at all; but these are now so stale tricks of yours, that every man rejecteth them as fast as I do. From death you 〈◊〉 to sufferings, from sufferings to proper sufferings of the soul, to which you àdde as a supplussage, the pains of the damned from the immediate hand of God. And so where you find any Father affirm that Christ GRIEVED, FEARED OR SORROWED in soul, which are the natural passions of man's soul common to good and bad, you look no farther, but presently pronounce that Father maketh evidently with you. But awake out of this ignorant l●…thargie, there be many steps between their words and your wiles, which you will never tread over with any the least show of truth or proof. If I have not abused their words in alleging them, as you confess, and I assure myself, I have not, but where the Printer perchance hath made some fault, which no man can avoid, (as pag. 81. August. de Trinitate li. 11. the Printer hath set for lib. 13. and some such) then have I less abused their meaning; whereof I make every Reader judge, and so refer my collecting to their censuring, which is no abuse.  

a Defenc. pag. 144. li. 28.  They striving against Arians and such other heretics, who would have Christ's Deity to take part in his sufferings for our redemption; the godly ancient writers do hereupon say, he suffered and satisfied for us only in his body, not excluding the proper and immediate sufferings of his spirit. Let the Authors themselves be viewed, if you think 1 affirm of them falsely.] Against whom they write, is not so much, as what they write, and how they confute those heretics, whom they undertake. The positions, which they establish out of the Scriptures against such heresies, are most to be regarded; by their proofs you shall see their purpose. To confound those misbelievers, that would have the Godhead of Christ suffer in his flesh, or together with his flesh, the Fathers do sound oppose, first that the Godhead is inviolable, impassable, immutable, and such like properties of the Godhead. Secondly that the soul of Christ was subject to no kind of death, neither of sin nor damnation, which are not the death of the body, as you wilfully, but most absurdly would wrest it: and therefore the Godhead was much more free, not only from this death of the body, but from all touch of any kind of death. Thirdly, to show what it was in Christ that died, since neither the Deity nor the soul of Christ could die any kind of death, they prove that that which died, was a mortal body, buried and raised again the third day according to the Scriptures. Which accidents and attributes belonging only to the body of Christ; It is most certain by the sacred Scriptures that only the body of Christ was yielded to death for the redemption of our sins. These be the chiefest of their reasons, though they have many others tending to the same issue, which whether they truly and effectually exclude the death of Christ's soul from the work of our redemption, I leave it to their judgement, that shall peruse the former places by me cited; or view the Fathers themselves in their full discourses. And yet a number of these Fathers in the places by me alleged do not refute the Arians, but handle professedly other points of our redemption & salvation: as Tertullian in his book of the Resurrection of the flesh, Chrysostom in his Homily of drunkenness & of the resurrection, Augustine in his 99 Epistle, & those Chapters of his fourth Book de Trinitate, which I produced; Gregory upon job, Bernard in his Sermons to the Soldiers of the Temple, Bede in his Homilies, and Albinus in his questions: these I say do not there take in hand to refel the Arians, but to deliver what kind of death Christ died to free us from all deaths; And resolve, as we may read, that by one kind of death, which was the death of Ch●…istes body only, both our deaths of body and soul were utterly abolished. And whether this be true or false, which I avouch, I wish no better trial than the present view of their sayings, whom now you struck as ancient and godly writers, but not long since you stripped as fond, absurd, the perverters of Authentic words, and occasioners of gross errors.  

b Defenc. pag. 145. li. 1.  Tertullian and Cyrill will give a taste hereof for all the rest.] You will give a fresh taste of your unlearned mistaking them, otherwise their places as they make nothing for your pretences, so were they objected and answered before. [
c li. 2.  In Tertullia's words, Christ's flesh, is expressly opposed to his Deity, not to his soul; so that evidently he meaneth thereby his whole manhood.] If you mean that Tertullian still conceived Christ's fl●…sh to be human flesh, that is not amiss, but wide from your matter: But if you would observe, that Tertullian in that tractate speaking of Christ's flesh, doth not distinguish it from Christ's soul, or maketh common to Christ's soul whatsoever he there a●…firmeth of Christ's flesh, it is a palpable and pestilent untruth. When he saith, H●…c vox carnis & animae, id est hominis. This was the voice of his flesh, and of his soul; that is of his Manhood; doth he not in exact words distinguish Christ's flesh from his soul? Again where he saith, 
d Tertullianus adversus Praxeam.  Denique (spiritum) posuit & statim obijt: spiritu enim manente in carne, caro omnino mori non potest: Christ laid down (his spirit) and strait way died; for his spirit abiding in his flesh, the flesh could not die at all: can there be any doubt, but the name of Christ's flesh here doth not contain his human spirit or soul, though you avouch the contrary? Of the attributes of Christ's flesh he saith, & 
e Ibidem.  videtur, & contrectatur per carnem. Christ is seen, and handled by the flesh; which I hope he is not by his soul. Though therefore he often interpret carnem, id est hominem; flesh, that is man, showing he speaketh of Christ, who had both body and soul, yet that doth no way prove, that what he affirmeth of Christ's flesh must be common to both parts of Christ's manhood; which simple shift when you have once taken up, you can never make an end of it.  

f Defenc. pag. 145. li. 5.  If he had meant to exclude any part or faculty of the soul from suffering, as he doth his Godhead, he had confirmed that heresy against which he striveth, as before I noted.] You keep close to your own notes, though they want both truth and judgement. To make Christ's soul as impassable as his Godhead, was to make him no man; for man's soul is mutable, & subject to affections and passions, which God is not. But what is this to the death of Christ's soul, if it were an human soul and not equal with his Deity? or what heresy doth this confirm, if Tertullian deny Christ's soul to be mortal, which he ascribeth to the flesh of Christ? You talk much of heresi●…s, but take heed, you leap not head and ears into them, whiles you devise new deaths, and new hells for the soul of Christ without and against the rules of the sacred Scriptures.  

g Defenc. pag. 145. li. 7.  It seems he yieldeth the name of death to this suffering of Christ's whole manhood; in saying, quod unctum est, mortuum ostendit: that died, which received the anointing. For I hope his spirit was anointed with the holy Ghost, as well as his flesh.] You do we●…l to ad●…e seeming to this saying: for to him that understandeth little, it may so seem, when in truth it is nothing less. Tertullian interpreting the name Christ, which is as much as Anointed, saith; Christ died, not as he was the word, and Son of God, but as he was Anointed, that is in his human flesh, which was anointed as well as his human spirit. Doth he say, all that was anointed, died, as you most falsely would enforce his speech? It sufficeth then that he died, not as he was God, who can no way be subject to death, but as he was man having one part mortal, which was his body; and he died that death, which is common to all, I mean the separating of the soul from the body; not that which is special to the wicked, as rei●…ction from the favour and grace of God. Tertullia's own words next before are these. 
h Tertullianus adversus Praxeam.  Cum duae substantiae censeantur in Christo jesu, divina & humana, cons●…et autem immortalem esse diuina●…, cum mortalem quae humana sit, apparet, quatenus eum mortuum dicat, id est 〈◊〉 carnem, & hominem, & silium hominis, non quâ spiritum, & sermonem, & filium Dei. D●…do ●…que Christus mortuus est, id est unctus; id quod unctum est, mortuum ostendit: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c●…rnem. Where there are two substances in Christ jesus, a divine and ●…n human, and it is c●…rtaine, that the divine is immortal, and the human mortal; it is plain wherein the Apostle pronounced Christ to be dead, that is, as he was flesh and man, and the Son of man, not as he was a spirit, and the word, and Son of God. In saying then Christ, that is the Anointed, was dead, he showeth that which was Anointed, even his flesh to have been dead. Will you teach out of these words, that Christ's soul was certainly mortal, because it was not his divine substance, and that he died in soul, because he died in his human nature, as a man, which Tertullian expoundeth to be his flesh; and likewise his death to be the laying down of his soul, or breathing out of his spirit as the Evangelist describeth it?  

i Defenc. pag. 145. li 14.  My false translating of him, which you note, is not worth the noting, but you do worse in false placing those his last rehearsed words for advantage: in Tertulli●…n they are used more generally coming long before.] Your mistranslating can not be defended, and my misplacing, as you call it, is no way prejudicial either to the truth, or the author's intent. What should hinder me to allege divers sentences out of any Writer occurrent in one and the same Treatise, and tending all to declare his meaning, and to d●…ct your misconstruction of him? I use to set Ibidem by the side, to show that it is a new sentence; which if the Printer omit, what wrong is done to the Reader, so long as I add or alter nothing, as you do? He that will rightly conceive another's sense, must compare his words uttered in the same discourse, and belonging to the same matter. You say they are used more generally in their own place, this were somewhat, if your saying were any thing worth; but if they be divers proofs of one thing, though in place one before another, they all have one intention, and must have one construction. Your manner is to make what you list of every man's words, my course is to show by the words precedent and consequent, that I take the right sense of each Writer, not upon the advantage of one word wrested from the rest; but out of the whole context, to manifest the true meaning of each man's speech. If therefore Tertullian had said, Haec mors est carnis & animae, this is the death of soul and flesh, as he saith, Haec vox est carnis & animae, this is the voice of soul and flesh, It had been worth the objecting; and yet I must tell you, that Tertullian being of opinion, that the soul was traduced with the seed of the body, when he divideth a man into flesh, soul, and spirit, as here he doth, by naming all three parts; it may well be doubted, whether he spoke of the substance of the soul, which is a spirit; or of the powers of sense and speech, which fail by death and are often comprised in the name of the soul. But it is clear by Tertullias own words, that Christ's human spirit was not dead or forsaken, since he there urgeth, it was committed to the father's hands, and consequently was not forsaken, nor left to death, as the rest of Christ's manhood was. 
k Tertullianus adversus Praxeam.  Caeterum non reliquit pater filium, in cuius manibus filius spiritum suum posuit. Denique posuit & statim obijt: spiritu enim manente in carne, caro omnio mori non potest. But the Father did not forsake the Son, into whose hands the son laid down his spirit. For he laid it down, and presently died: the spirit remaining in the flesh the flesh could not die at all. The Father then left the flesh of his son unto death, but he took Christ's spirit into his hands, and so for the son to be forsaken, was nothing else but for his flesh to be left to death. This is Tertullia's own exposition of himself, howsoever you would dally and deceive both yourself and your Reader by general or special, before or after.  

l Defenc. pag. 145. li. 24.  Cyrill also even in that book which you cite for you showeth that he excludeth but Christ's deity though he mention only his suffering in flesh. Christ then is God, impassable as God, passable according to the fl●…sh.] You put a whole But to Cyrills' sense, more than you find in his text, and yet the words passable and impassable, are not the things, we strive for. Impassable is that, which by no possibility can admit any mutation or alteration, by force or affection, which is proper to God alone. So no part of Christ's manhood was impassable. But though his soul were passable with divers affections and impressions, how will it follow from these or any other words in Cyrill, that Christ's soul died? Cyrill hath in many words showed, which I before have cited, that Christ's soul was subject to all human and natural passions or affections but without sin or corruption; in this sense what doth it help you to have the soul of Christ passable by nature, and not impassable as his godhead is? but you love to loiter, that thus still repeat one lesson, not only besides your book, but against your book.  

m Defenc. pag 145. li 30.  In a word so do all the rest, as before is partly noted.] A total sum is as soon made of lies, as of truths. All the answer you give is, they spoke against other Heretics, not against you; but this is the danger, that if such points, as they prove against other Heretics, make against you, you had need beware of the conjunction and communion between you and other Heretics. Against 
n li. 31.  Nestorius they affirm, you say, the union of Christ's natures.] Why skip you 
o Sermo. fo. 331.  Athanasius, Epiphanius, Ambrose, and Augustine, that never heard of Nestorius? who teach directly, that Christ's suffering of death mentioned in the Scriptures, was the suffering thereof in his mortal body, which died and rose again; and by the death of this body was the ransom for us all paid. 
p Ambros. in Luc●… ca 4. de ductu Christi in desertum.  What pray (saith Ambrose) could there be (for death and Satan) but his body? You say his soul. 
q August. in Psal. 148.  Accepit ex te unde moreretur pro te. Non posset mori nisi card. Non posset mori nisi mortale corpus. Christ took of thee (saith Austen) wherein he might die for thee. There could die (in him) nothing but flesh. There could die (in him) nothing but his mortal body. These and many such places yond cleanly skip, and tell in a word they are all for you. [
r li. 32.  They preserve the properties of each. They therefore hold not his only bodily sufferings.] Nay they therefore hold not the death of Christ's soul, since that is no necessary property of man's nature assumed by Christ. Their reasons likewise and expositions of the Scriptures, which you pervert, exclude your conceit of the death of Christ's soul most apparently. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The Deity could not suffer (death, say they) because it was no body. Then only the body could suffer that death which Christ died. And since the soul is no body, that also must be free from the death which Christ died. These positions likewise of the Christian faith, that the Son of God was wounded, crucified, dead, and rose again for us all, they expound to be expressly meant of his body wounded, crucified, dead, and raised the third day; so that where you would cavil, that the name of Christ's flesh importeth his soul as well as his body, they directly refel you, and pronounce all these things to be verified of his body, and not of his soul or deity, since nothing in him could suffer death but his body. And the Scriptures that Christ by the grace of God tasted death for all, and by death conquered him that had power over death, and such like, they exactly refer to  
the death of his body; which argueth all your doctrine of the death of Christ's soul to be merely superfluous, if not wholly pernicious.  

f Defenc. pag. 145. li. 33.  Is this then your great boast of all the Fathers and counsels? nay are they well used at your hands, to be thus drawn clean from their purpose to an opinion which they never thought of? is this good dealing towards God's people to tell them, that the Fathers generally teach the only bodily sufferings of Christ and deny our assertion of his souls peculiar suffering, which they justify and con●…irme indeed?] Intrueth good Reader if I were not too well acquainted with this man's unshamefastness, I should think I rather heard a player on the stage, than a Penman in the Church. Is it possible for a man of any learning or understanding thus in print and open view of the whole Realm to rage, revel, & rush on with lying, craking and facing, when he speaketh not one true word? for first, Sir flincher, is this the point here or any where proposed by me, whether Christ's sufferings were only bodily? did I promise or produce any Fathers to that end? is it not the death of the soul, and the pains of the damned, which I impugned in Christ's sufferings? have I not most truly performed, which I ever professed, that the whole Church of Christ for so many hundred years never thought, never heard of the death of Christ's soul in the work of our redemption, but rested their faith on the death of Christ's body as a most sufficient price both for the souls and bodies of the faithful? What cunning then is this, first to shift your hands of that, you can no way prove, though you still do and must profess it, and then to clamour at me for drawing the Father's clean from their intent and meaning? is this the way to credit your new Creed, by such devices and stratagems to entertain the people of God, lest they should see how far you be slid from the ancient & primative Church of Christ? take a while but the thought of a sober man, and this pang will soon be overpast. Did you not undertake to prove the death of Christ's soul, by Scriptures, which indeed I first and most required; and have you so done? look back to your miserable mistake and palpable perverting of the words of the holy Ghost, and tell us what one syllable you have brought sounding that way? are your secrets such that they be no where revealed in the word of God? must all faith come from thence, and is your faith exempted, that it shall have no foundation there? are men and Angels accursed, that preach any other Gospel than was delivered and written by Christ's Apostles; and shall you be excused for devising a new kind of redemption by the death of Christ's soul no where witnessed in the Scriptures? you see how easy it were to be eloquent against you in a just and true cause; but words must not win the field. What I impugned, my sermons will show; what I have proved, I will not proclaim. If I have failed in that I endeavoured, the labour is mine, the liberty is the Readers to judge. Let the indifferent read it, they shall find somewhat to direct them: let the contentious skanne it, they shall see somewhat to harle their haste, and perhaps to restrain their stiffness. What ever it be, I leave it to others, since the discourser hasteth towards an end, and so do I.  

s Defenc. pag. 146. li. 2  This is the profit that comes by ordinary flaunting with Fathers, which many do frequent in these days. Think they, if the Scriptures alone suffice not for things in religion, that the Fathers will suffice? or if the Scriptures may be wrested by subtle heads, that yet the Fathers can not.] Is it not enough for yourself to be a despiser of all antiquity and sobriety, but you must insult at them that bear more regard to either than you do? If to flaunt with Fathers be so great a fault, which yet respecteth their judgements that have been liked and allowed from age to age in the Church of Christ, what is it to fliske with pride and folly grounded on nothing but on self-love and singularity? It were to be wished, that even some of the best writers of our age, as they think themselves, had had more respect to the ancient Fathers, than they show; we should have wanted a number of novelties in the Church of God, which now we are troubled withal, as well in Doctrine as in discipline. This course of concurring with the lights of God's Church before our time in matters of faith, though you mislike, other manner of men than you are, or ever will be, have allowed and followed, as 
u August. contra I●…num. li. 1.  Augustine, 
x Theodor. diol. 2. & 3.  Theodorete, 
y Leo epist. 97. 〈◊〉. Leonem.  Leo, 
z Cassi. de incarnate Domini li. 7 ca 5.  Cassianus, 
a Gelas. de duabus in Christo nat●…ris.  Gelasius, 
b Vigilius li. 5. cap. 6.  Vigilius, and the two 
c Hispalensi concilium 2. ca 13.  counsels of Hispalis, and others; not doubting the sufficiency of the Scriptures, but showing the correspondency of believing and interpreting the Scriptures in all ages to have been the same, which they embraced and urged. And in all evenness of reason, were it better to feed the people with our private conceits pretended out of Scripture; or to let such, as be of judgement, understand, that we frame no faith but such as in the best times hath been collected and received from the grounds of holy Scripture, by the wisest and greatest men in the Church of God? your only example turning and winding the words of the holy Ghost to your own conceits, will show, how needful it is not to permit every prater to reign over the Scriptures with figures and phrases at his pleasure, and thence to fetch what faith he list. If you so much reverence the Scriptures, as you report, which were to be wished you would, why devise you doctrine not expressed in the Scriptures? Why teach you that touching man's redemption, which is no where written in the word of God? Indeed the Scriptures are plain in this point of all others, what death Christ died for us, if you did not pervert them against the histories of the Evangelists and testimonies of the Apostles. Omit the description of his death so fairly witnessed by the four Evangelists, what exacter words can we have then the Apostles, that Christ 
d Coloss. 1.  pacisied things in earth, and things in heaven by the blood of his cross, and reconciled us, which were strangers and enemies, in the body of his flesh through death. Believe what you read, and what you read not in the word of God, believe not, and this matter is ended: but by Synecdoches without cause you put to the Scriptures, not what you read in them, but what you like best, and by Metaphors and Metonimies, you will take body for substance, and flesh for soul. And so where the Apostle avoucheth, that we were reconciled to God, through death in the body of (Christ's) flesh, you tell us, we could not be redeemed without the death of Christ's soul, and the essence of the pains of the damned suffered by sudden touches from the immediate hand of God after an extraordinary manner. If you teach no doctrine but delivered in the Scriptures, aband on these devices not expressed in the Scriptures. If you content yourself with the all sufficient word of God in matters of faith, you must relinquish the death of Christ's soul and pains of the damned as no part of our redemption, since there is no such thing contained in the word of God. To me and others that believe, the words of Paul are sufficient, declaring this to be the very ground of the Gospel, which he received and delivered, that Christ 
e 1. Cor. 15.  died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he arose the third day according to the Scriptures. Whence by a full and fair coherence I collect, that whatsoever died in Christ according to the Scriptures, that was buried and raised the third day according to the Scriptures. But it is more than manifest by the Scriptures, that the soul of Christ was neither buried, nor raised from death the third day, but only his body. It is therefore as plain to me by the all sufficient word of God, that the soul of Christ died not for our sins according to the Scripture.  
Your 
f Defenc. pag. 146. li 23.  section touching material fire in hell, I have sifted at large before, I shall not need to say any more of it. Your hemming in all the world on your side, 
g Defence pag. 147. li. 25.  not some, nor the most, or best, but even all, and every one, both Churches and writers in the world, who are Protestants; & leaving none to uphold the doctrine which I deliver, but Papists, Jesuits, and Friars, is, as I told you before, and must tell you again, an egregious lie, so loud and lewd, that all the bells in London, if they should jar together, could not yield a more offensive sound. That every new writer speaketh of some fears, sorrows, temptations, or painful sufferings in the soul of Christ, never was, nor is, by me denied, neither do I in my Sermons take upon me to determine, what fears, temptations, pains and sorrows Christ might and did suffer in his soul: only I added, that we must beware, we diminish not his faith, hope, love, confidence, obedience, patience, and other gifts and graces of the spirit of God in the soul of Christ, which the Scripture clearly maketh to be without want, defect, or measure in him. Shunning those sands, I left every man to his liberty to speak or write of Christ's fears and sorrows, as far as any circumstance of holy Scripture did duly enforce: but the death of the soul, the pains of hell, and of the damned, and the second death if any sought to fasten on the soul of Christ, whosoever they were, they did it by their own surmises, they had no warrant for any of those in the word of God, except they took the pains of hell figuratively for great and intolerable, such as sometimes the Godly in their human weakness think and complain they feel or fear, though they come nothing near the true pains of hell, which cannot be endured in this mortal life and flesh by the evidence of nature and Scripture. This being my constant course, as my Sermons printed do apparently witness, what folly, what madness is this, so eagerly and often to challenge me for contradicting the whole world, when it is but your immoderate greediness or giddiness to think, that every man, who writeth any thing of the fears or sufferings of Christ's soul, doth presently teach as you do, the death of Christ's soul and the substance of the most vehement pains of the damned, yea the second death to be a necessary part of our redemption, which Christ must suffer, before he could ransom us? To censure men's private opinions I take no pleasure, some men otherwise very learned and laborious, have dipped too deep in that die, as yourself prove and pronounce by rejecting and reselling the horror of e●… n●… death, in the soul of Christ; though Master Calvin say, Christ CONFLICTED therewith; and the Catechism avouch, Christ was therewithal P●…VSED. If you may thus renounce and refute the first devise and spredders (as you think them) of your proper and spiritual temptations and torments in the soul of Christ; give others leave to receive them no farther, than they concur with the Scriptures, and with the primative church of God. I find divers men speak diversly, but very few and these late, that light on the death of Christ's soul, and sudden touches of the essential pains of the damned from the immediate hand of God, which is your fresh and new device: yea many that are carried away with the general terms of God's wrath and horror of his dreadful judgements against sin, no way like the death of Christ's soul, and by special words debar all mention of the second death in the sufferings of Christ; and those as well English, as others.  
How false and soolish your vaunt is, of all and every church and writer in the world, that are Protestants, to be of your mind, will soon appear to any that will read and weigh the works and words of Zuinglius, Musculus, Martyr, Bullinger, Aretius, 
〈◊〉 new 〈◊〉 teach the sufferings of Christ's soul without the pains of hell.  Zanchius, and of sundry others as sound in faith, as ripe in judgement, as diligent in reading, and sufficient in all kind of learning, as the best you can name either broaching or bowing towards your late conceits; who though they teach, that Christ suffered in soul and body, as I do, yet they assign far other sufferings in the soul of Christ, than your essential pains of the damned. I may not stand to make new discourses touching new writers; a place or two shall serve for all, and so an end of this matter. Bullinger upon those words of Esay Christ laid down (or made) his soul a sacrifice for sin, saith. 
h 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. ●…3.  To make his soul a sacrifice for sin, is to offer himself to be a sacrifice to Purge sins. And he saith Christ's soul, and not his flesh, not that the flesh of Christ was not offered for us, but that whole Christ, body and soul, offered himself to God, and that willingly, from his heart, and of his own accord; and whole Christ was the expiation of our sins, licet interim neque divinit as sit passa, neque anima mortua, sed caro; de quare beati Patres Vigilius & Fulgentius contra Haereticos religiose disputarunt; Though during that time neither his divinty suffered, NOR HIS SOUL DIED: but his flesh: whereof the blessed fathers Vigilius and Fulgentius have religiously discoursed against Heretics.  
Zanchius, whose learned works are to me in steed of many writers, that are carried with faction and affection to uphold, whatsoever some other men say, though he could not for his often and great labours get time to finish his purposed treatise of man's redemption in that exact manner, that he hath done the rest, yet commenting on S. Paul's Epistles, as occasion was offered, he fully delivereth the matter and manner of our redemption to be the only sacrifice of Christ's body and blood; other propitiatory sacrifice for sin then that he acknowledgeth none, though he ascribe to the soul as well her sufferings, as her sacrifice. 
i Zanchius in ca 2. epist. ad Philip. v. 8.  All things prepared, which were requisite to offer the sacrifice for our sins, behold the Priest with his sacrifice, Christ with his body, the body I say of (him that was) God, who through voluntary obedience to his Father, and most ardent love to us, offered himself to God for a most sweet smell. And where did he offer himself? on the altar of the Cross: he suffered, and died, and that on the cross. 
k Ibidem.  Patitur in anima summam tristitiam, timorem, ignominiam; in corpore summos dolores, in singulis membris atrocissima flagella. 
l Ibidem.  In ligno moritur, ut mors per lignum ingressa in mundum per lignum tolleretur è mundo. He suffered in soul most exceeding heaviness, fear, and shame; In his body most bitter pains, in every member most grievous scourges. On the tree he died, that as death came into the world by a tree, so it might be taken out of the world by a tree. 
m Idem in ca 1. ad Ephes. v. 7.  To that point, how we are redeemed, the Apostle saith, by his blood, that is by 〈◊〉 sacrifice, which consisted of the offering of his body delivered to death, and his blood shed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 fuit proprius modus, this was the proper manner, (or only way) how we must be redeemed from the captivity of sin and death. This 
n Ibidem.  sacrifice which is often signified by the name of (Christe●…) blood alone, is that price of which the Prophets before, and after the Apostles say, we were redeemed (by it.) For 
o Ibidem.  we are redeemed, and have remission of sins in Christ by his only blood. 
p Idem de tribus 〈◊〉. 1. cap. 5. test. 9  This is even he, who by the only sacrifice of his body should effectually cleanse the sins of the world. And so again. The Apostle 
q Idem in ca 1. ep. ad Coloss. vers. 22.  expresseth the material cause of our reconciliation, or the thing wherewith the Father reconciled us to himself, to 〈◊〉, by the oblation of the true and human body of Christ delivered to death for our sins. This he meaneth, when he saith in the body of his flesh through death. For this body, which was truly flesh, and an human body; not simply, but as it died, is the matter of our reconciliation, by that was reconciliation made. He 
r Ibidem.  joineth the body with blood, because both are the price of our reconciliation, and by both were our sins cleansed. The Apostle than 
s Ibidem.  signifieth reconciliation was by the oblation of the body of Christ, as by the true sacrifice for sin.  
Zanchius speaketh not precisely, you will say, against the death of Christ's soul.] In plainly and fully delivering the matter and mean of our redemption to be the ONLY SACRIFICE of the body and blood of Christ offered on the cross to death; he excludeth all other ransoms for our sins, & so maketh the death of Christ's soul not only to be superfluous to man's salvation, but no mean of our redemption. For in his judgement, 
t Zanchius de tribus Elohim part. 1. li. 5. ca 1 〈◊〉 10.  Christ is the propitiatory sacrifice for sin, not simply, but as he died for us with the shedding of his blood; and 
u Ibidem.  this ONLY SACRIFICE (the shedding of Christ's blood unto death) God chose from everlasting for the expiation of our sins, and promised the same from the creation of the world, and shadowed it with resemblances. And touching the death of the soul, if you teach as Zanchius doth, you will presently find it is open blasphemy to ascribe to Christ any death of the soul. 
x Zanch●… tractat, theologic●… de peccato originali. ca 4. thes. 3  A triple death (saith he) God threatened to Adam for disobedience; a spiritual death, which was the separation of grace, of the holy Ghost, and of original righteousness from the soul and body of Adam, of which death in the Scriptures there is often mention made. This death Adam died as soon as he did eat. The second was a corporal death, whereby the soul is severed from the body. To this Adam was presently (upon his eating) made subject; though he did not straightways actually die. The third is everlasting death, which is known to all, & of this death Adam was forthwith made guilty. This triple death was the punishment of his disobedience. And upon like occasion comparing the death of the soul and of the body, he saith. 
y Ibidem in ca 2. epist. add ephes. vers. 5.  There is a triple death; spiritual, (of the spirit or soul) corporal, known to all men; and the third is that eternal death pertaining to body and soul, wherewith all the wicked shall be punished in hell. These all God threatened to Adam, when he said, what hour soever thou shalt eat, etc. thou shalt die the death. For he straightway died in spirit (or soul); he incurred also the death of the body, because he became mortal; and was made guilty of eternal death. 
z Ibid.  We have rightly said death to be the privation of life, and so of all the actions of life consisting in the separation of body and soul. The like we must say of the spiritual life and death. The spiritual life is a certain spiritual and divine force, whereby we are moved to spiritual and divine actions by the presence of the holy Ghost dwelling in us. The holy Ghost regenerating us in this spiritual life is as it were the soul thereof. And holy and spiritual thoughts, holy desires, holy actions both inward and outward are the operations of this spiritual life. What then is the death of the spirit? even the privation of the spiritual life, and consequently of all spiritual and good actions in a man destitute of the presence of the holy Ghost, which should quicken him, coming from sin, and for sin. 
a Ibidem.  What strength hath a man dead in body to the actions of this life? so neither can he, that is dead in spirit (or soul), do any works of the spiritual life. here is a full and true description of the death of the spirit or soul of man, which if you and your friends dare attribute to Christ; then doth Zanchius favour the death of Christ's soul: but if every piece hereof applied to Christ be evident heresy and infidelity, than did Zanchius no way defend the death of Christ's soul to be any part of our redemption; and as for the second death, he acknowledgeth none, but that which is eternal, and inflicted in hell on all the wicked.  
Much more might be brought to like effect, showing the true and only mean and matter of our redemption and reconciliation to be the only body and blood of Christ yielded unto death for the ransom of our sins; but I should make a new volume, if I should stand thereon. It may suffice in the judgement of any reasonable man to refute the slanderous mouth of this most insolent prater, that I profess, I mislike nothing the writings and resolutions of all these learned Protestants, for as much as I have seen and read of them, (which is as much as I could get) touching our redemption by the death of Christ; but teach the same that they taught, and in my private moderation could bear the words of many others, (those only excepted who elude the plainness of the Scriptures, with the fineness of their new devices), were it not, that such hoblers, as this is, upon such occasions will never leave their fresh inventing new means and causes of our redemption, till they be they know not where. Taking it therefore to be no evil way, when men of great wits and gifts begin to turn to their own devices, to see what the learned and ancient lights of Christ's Church believed and derived from the sacred Scriptures in those very points of truth and our salvation; I have chosen rather to show thee, Christian Reader, the general and continual consent of religious and reverend antiquity; then to muster men's names of latter times, and by disgracing or comparing their labours or learn, to set any man, or Church in fire. If so many learned and ancient fathers displease happily some in respect of their private contrary conceits, I have done my duty to declare the truth, and showed my desire of peace, whiles I never meant, nor can yet be drawn to impeach any man's name or credit, howsoever I think, that some of them serve from the exact rule and sense of holy Scriptures in some few points, as well of doctrine as of discipline.   

THE SECOND PART. WHAT IS MEANT BY THIS IN THE CREED, THAT Christ descended to HADES, or Hell.  
I Shall not need (good Christian Reader) to spend much time or pains in this question. An article of the Creed since it is, That Christ descended into Hell; and the same derived from the Scriptures, confessed by all Antiquity, and confirmed by authority of this whole Realm, as well in the book of Common prayer, as in the Articles of Religion ratified by Prince and Parliament, it is not for an English man directly to dispute against it; howsoever, retaining the words, many doubt or deny the sense thereof. I may be the shorter, for that the Refuter insisteth only on four reasons against the descent of Christ to the place of the damned, which our English Creed calleth Hell; and the rest, which he bringeth, is like his former labour, that is, is nothing but a bold pronouncing of his own conceits, and a false misconstruing of other men's sayings. His first reason is.  

b Defenc. pag 149. li. 7.  If there be a good and sound general reason in Christian faith, that Christ's soul leaving his body, ascended up to heaven, and there remained till his resurrection; and if there be no special reason of authority to the contrariè, that his soul now descended, th●…n surely every good Christian ought to believe, that his soul ascended to heaven, and descended not locally into hell. But both these former parts are most true.] Not one of these parts is true, and were they (as they are not) most true; yet conclude they not your purpose. That Christ's soul leaving his body ascended up to heaven, is more than any Scripture expressly avoucheth. The order of our Creed leadeth us to believe, that Christ rose the third day from the dead before he ascended to heaven. That he was in Paradise the same day that he died, his own words to the penitent thief, This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise, may prove, if we admit them to be spoken of Christ's soul and not of his Deity, as Saint Austen and others expound them: but that Christ's soul departing from his body, and returning to the same again, diverted no whither, nor spoilt powers and principalities, nor made an open show of them, triumphing over them, for this there is neither good reason in the Christian faith, nor warrant in the word of God, but only your courageous assuming any thing that may seem to support your cause. On the other side, what reasons there are, general or special, for Christ's descent to hell, though you make light of them, the Church of Christ from the beginning hath received and professed them, not from the mouths of men, but from the witness of holy Scripture, howsoever you turn and wind the words of the Holy Ghost to fit them to your appetite. And what so great need is there of special reasons of authority to the contrary? Will not general testimonies of the Scriptures serve to prove a truth, except the special circumstances of time, and place, and manner be therewithal expressed.  

c Ibid. li. 16.  The analogy of faith requireth, that the head should be there where the members were, and where they remain till their resurrection, that there he tarry till his resurrection. It seemeth also these texts will prove it; Where I am, there also shall my servant be. I will, that where I am, there they also shall be with me.] Did you speak of the perpetual abode of the head and members in one and the same place of joy and bliss at God's appointed time, Your words had some dependence on Christ's promise, saying; 
d john 12.  Where I am, there also shall my servants be: but this speech of Christ's is restrained to a certain time, in which it shall be verified, as appeareth by that he said, 
e john 14.  I go to prepare you a place, I will come again, and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there also you may be. At his next coming he will take us unto himself, and then shall we be ever with the Lord. This is the time, when his promise shall be performed. And though the Saints dissolved are now with Christ, that is, not only received to rest and joy in Christ, but also where the glory of Christ sitting at the right hand of his Father continually shineth to them, and on them with full assurance of everlasting glory prepared for them; yet no analogy of faith, nor any words by you brought, do prove all the Saints to have their bodies now in heaven, because Christ hath his there; or that the souls of the just were after the speaking of these words, always here on earth, where Christ was; or that all the Saints rose with him, as some did; or that when, and where Christ appeared after his resurrection, all his Saints must or did appear with him. Much less is there any sequel from either, that all the souls of the righteous must or did accompany Christ's soul going to Paradise, and coming thence; so that he could not descend to Hell to triumph over Satan and all the power of darkness, but the spirits of the just deceased must leave Paradise, and go thither with him.  

f Defenc. pag. 149. li. 20.  I see not but that he promiseth here his servants even a local accompanying of him after this life, and that also generally whither soever he went.] Then was Peter a slender Divine, who hearing these words from his Master's mouth, did after openly proclaim, That 
g Act. 2. v. 34.  David was not ascended into heaven. If it be so firm a promise, as you pretend, than David, as well as the rest, must locally accompany Christ whithersoever he went, and consequently ascend to heaven with him; which Peter utterly denieth. And all the Fathers of Christ's church had little understanding of Christ's words, when they generally denied, that the souls of the Saints are yet in the same place of glory where Christ is. If you belee●…e not my report of them, peruse their own words following. Irenaeus, 
h Irenaeus li. 5. ca 31.  It is manifest, that the souls of Christ's Disciples shall go to an invisible place appointed them of God, and there shall remain until the resurrection; and after receiving their bodies, and rising perfectly, that is, corporally, as Christ did rise, shall so come to the sight (or vision) of God. justine the martyr. 
i Ius●… 〈◊〉. 75.  The souls of the righteous are carried to Paradise, where they enjoy the company and sight of Angels, and Archangels, and the vision of Christ our Saviour: and are kept in places fit for them till the day of resurrection and recompensation. Tertullian, 
k Tertullianus adversus Marcionem. li. 4.  It is apparent to any wise man, that there is a place determined, which is Abraham's bosom, for the receiving of the souls of his sons. That region, I mean Abraham's bosom, though not heavenly, sublimiorem tamen inferis, yet higher than the places below, shall give comfort to the souls of the righteous, until the end of things with the fullness of reward bring the resurrection of all men. 
l Idem de a●…ima. ca 55.  Heaven is open to no man so long as the earth remaineth: together with the passing away of the world, shall the kingdom of heaven be opened. Origen, 
m Origen▪ in Le●…t. homil. 7.  The Saints departing hence do not presently obtain the full rewards of their labours, but they expect us, though staying, though slacking. For they have not perfect joy, so long as they grieve at our errors, and lament our sins. For these, saith Paul, have not yet received the promise, God providing for us a better thing, that they without us should not be perfect. Hilary 
n Hilarius in Psal. 2.  The day of judgement is the repay of everlasting happiness or punishment. But the time of death till then, hath every one under his laws, whiles either Abraham or torment reserve each man unto judgement. Ambrose, 
o Ambros. de bo●…o mortis. ca 10.  Till the fullness of time come, the souls (departed) expect their due reward; for some pain, for some glory is provided. Chrysostom, 
p Chrysost. in 1. Epistolam ad Corinth. homil. 39  Though the soul were a thousand times immortal, as she is, those admirable good things she shall not enjoy without her flesh. 
q Ibidem.  If the body rise not again, the soul remaineth uncrowned, and without that heavenly bliss. Augustine, 
r August. in Psal. 36.  After this short life thou shalt not as yet be where the Saints shallbe, to whom it shallbe said, Come ye blessed of my Father, receive the Kingdom prepared for you from the beginning of the world; th●… shalt not as yet be there, who knoweth it not? but thou mayest be there, where the poor Lazar was seen afar of by the proud rich man. In that rest shalt thou securely expect the day of judgement, when thou shalt receive thy body, and be changed to be equal to an Angel. Theodoret, 
s Th●…dor. in 11. ca Epist. ad Hebreos.  The Saints have not yet received their crowns. For the God of all expecteth the conflicts of others, that the race being ended, he may together pronounce all, that overcame, to be conquerors, and so reward them. Oecumenius, 
t O●…cume. in 11. ca Epist. add Hebreos.  All the fore said Saints have not yet received the good things promised to the just, God providing better for us. Lest they should have more than we, in that they were crowned before us, he hath therefore appointed one certain time, that we should be crowned with them. Andrea's Caesariensis, 
u Andrea●… C●…sari. in 〈◊〉. ca 18.  It is the judgement of many godly fathers, that every good man (after this life) hath a place ●…itte for him, by which he may conjecture the glory prepared for him. Theophylact. 
x Theophylact. in 11. ca epist. ad Hebreos.  The Saints as yet have attained nothing of the heavenly promises. (God) hath appointed one time to crown all. Bernard, 
y Bernard. in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sanct. serm. 3.  you perceive there are three states of the soul; the first in (this) corruptible body, the second without the body, the third in perfect blessedness. The first in the Tabernacles, the second in the Courts, the third in the house of God. Into that most happy house of God the souls (of the Saints) shall not enter without us, nor without their bodies.  
Neither do I find any Scriptures, that allow the Saints deceased the same place of glory, where Christ now is at the right hand of God in the highest heavens, till the last day come. What Abraham's bosom is, whither Lazarus soul was carried by the Angels, or where it is, I dare not define. Only the Scripture faith, it was a place of 
z Luke 16. How many heavens the Scriptures make.  comfort after death, and 
z Luke 16. How many heavens the Scriptures make.  upwards far of from Hell; a 
z Luke 16. How many heavens the Scriptures make.  great gulf being set between that and hell. Of Paradise, where Christ promised the penitent Thief should be with him, the very day that he died, I read what Paul writeth, how he was taken up into the 
a 2. Co●… 12. ver. 2.  third heaven, and into 
b 2. Co●… 12. ver. 4.  Paradise; Whence we may rightly collect, that Paradise is in the third heaven. Now what number of heavens the Scripture delivereth, is not so certain as some men suppose. We find the whole region of the air to be called Heaven, as where Christ nameth the 
c Matt. 8. & 13  birds of heaven, and the 
d Matth 26.  
d Mark 14.  clouds of heaven. Again that place of the firmament, where the Sun, the Moon, and the stars are, is called heaven. 
e Genes. 1.  Let there be lights, said God, in the firmament of heaven to separate the day from the night. And I 
f Genes. 22.  will multiply thy seed, as the stars of heaven. The third heaven, if I be not deceived, the Scripture maketh to be the original and proper habitation of Angels, where they were first placed, and whence they fell, that are now called Devils. 
g judae epist. vers. 6.  The Angels which kept not their original, saith Jude, but left 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 THEIR PROPER HABITATION, hath Godreserued in ever lasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day. In this celestial Paradise, which at first was the proper mansion of Angels, as the Scripture observeth, there was not only place for sin, and danger of falling, as we find by experience of the reprobate angels, but after this was left an higher degree of perfection, and a greater increase of glory; as we perceive in the elect Angels, who were confirmed in goodness, and advanced to the presence of God's throne, there to behold the face of God in the proper place of his sanctity and majesty. Of this third heaven the book of job saith; God 
h job. 15.  found no steadfastness in his Saints, yea the heavens are not clean in his sight, since there he found sin in those transgressing Angels which left their proper habitation, and pressed with pride and disobedience to the throne of God. This fault and fall the Prophet resembleth, when he saith, 
i Esa 14.  How art thou fallen from heaven, o Lucifer? Thou saidst in thine heart, I will ascend above the higth of the clouds, and I willbe like the most high. * The last or highest heaven the Scripture nameth the Seat, throne, or habitation of God: which is not only holy, as whereinto 
k revel. 21.  no unclean thing shall enter, but is above all other heavens, and often called the heaven of heavens. In this is the presence of God's throne, that is, a perpetual and plain revelation of his divine glory and majesty, which the elect Angels always behold. And here is not only the fullness of 
s Psal 〈◊〉.  joy, as in the presence of God, but the stability, security, and satiety of everlasting life, and bliss to men and Angels, without any defect, doubt, or danger of failing or decreasing. In this they want nothing, and besides this they desire nothing, since in him, who is all in all, they find all things worthy love, delight, and joy. Look down 
m Esa. 63.  from heaven, saith Esay to God, and behold from the dwelling place of thine holiness and glory. And jeremy, 
n I●…m. 25.  The Lord shall cry from above, and give out his voice from his holy habitation. 
o 〈◊〉. ●…gs 8.  Behold the heavens, and the heavens of heavens contain thee not, saith Solomon. 
p Psal. 148.  Praise the Lord from the heavens, saith the Psalmist, praise him in the highest. Praise him all his Angels, praise him all his armies. Praise him heavens of heavens. To this place when Christ ascended with his body, the Apostle saith of him, that 
q 〈◊〉 7.  he was made higher than the heavens, and 
r Ephes. 4.  ascended above all the heavens, and 
s 〈◊〉. 1.  sitteth ●…t the right hand of majesty in the high places. Now 
t A. 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉. li. 〈◊〉 ca 1.  two we call both, not all; but of three we first use this word ●…ll. And the Greek tongue hath a special number for two, which is the dual; the plural is applied to more. Besides Moses saith in the beginning (before the 
u G●…. 〈◊〉. 1.  light or firmament were created) God made eth hashamai●…m, the heavens and the earth; where by the name of heaven; the best interpreters understand the place appointed for the habitation of Angels and the revelation of God's glory. Now the word hashamai●…m in Hebrew being not the singular number must have divers ma●…s in it, as well as the air and 〈◊〉 have divers regions and spheres to make the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agree to either of them. So that when Christ is said to have ascended a●… the heavens; nature, reason, and Grammar, besides Scripture seem to teach us, that he ascended above that part of the third heaven, where the Apostle noteth Paradise to be. And consequently, if the souls of the righteous deceased be in Paradise, they are not as yet in the highest heavens, where Christ sitteth in the glory of God his Father, (in whose house are many mansions) and whether they shallbe admitted at the last day, when Christ shall come again to take them unto himself, and to have them for ever with him in the possession and communion of his kingdom and glory, that they may be like the Angels.  
To this difference of place and glory before and after the day of judgement, the Scriptures incline as well as the Fathers, if I mistake them not; which I refer to the judgement of the wise and learned. S. john saw the souls of the Martyrs 
x revel. 6.  Under the altar, where they were willed to rest until (the number of) their fellow servants were fulfilled. But when crowns of glory are given them, as in the last day, they shall 
y revel. 7.  stand in the presence of the throne of God, and before the Lamb, and he that sitteth on the throne, will dwell among them. 
z 2. Tim. 4.  Henceforth, saith Paul, is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the just judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all that love his appearing. 
a 1. Pet. 1.  Blessed be God, saith Peter, who hath be gotten us again unto ●… lively hope to an inheritance immortal & vnd●…filed, which fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, which is prepared to be showed in the last time. 
b 1. john 3.  Now are we the Sons of God, saith john, but yet it doth not appear what; we shall be & we know, that when he shall appecre, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is, that is aswell the glory of his Godhead, as of his manhood. Then as Paul saith to all the faithful, 
c Coloss 3.  Your life is hid with Christ in God; When Christ, which is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory: And he shall say; 
d M. atth. 25.  Come ye blessed of my Father, receive the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; and not, retain the kingdom already possessed by you.  
It were easy out of new writers to show the same; Master Cal●…m shall su●…ce for all, who useth not oversoone to concurie with the fathers, when they divert from the Scriptures. 
e Cal●…us in 〈◊〉.  The souls of the saints after death are in peace, saith he, because they are escaped from the power of the enemy. But when heavenly jerusalem shallbe advanced to her glory, and the true Solomon, Christ the king of peace, shall sit aloft in his judgement seat, then shall the true Israelites reign with their KING. This they may easily perceive by the Scriptures, whosoever have learned to give ear to God, and hear his voice. This also have they delivered to us by hand, who have sparingly and reverently handled the mysteries of God. For Tertullian saith. 
f  why should we not admit Abraham's bosom to be called a temporal receptacle of the souls of the faithful? And Chrysostom, 
g Chrysost. 〈◊〉. 28. in Epistolam ad 〈◊〉.  Understand what and how great a thing it is for Abraham to sit, and for the Apostle Paul (to expect) until he be perfected, that then they may receive their reward. For until we come, the Father hath foretold them, he will not give them their reward. Art thou grieved because thou shalt not yet receive it? what should A●… do, who overcame so long since, and yet sitteth without his crown? what Noe? and the rest of those times? for behold they expected thee, and expect others after thee. They prevented us in their conflicts, but they shall not prevent us in their crowns, because there is onetime appointed to crown all together. Augustine in many places describeth 
h August. de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 12. ca 9 & li. 13. ca ●…. & 〈◊〉 add I 〈◊〉. ca 108.  secret receptacles, in which the souls of the godly are kept until they receive their crown and glory. Bernard in two homilies made at the feast of all Saints, where he handleth this question of purpose, teacheth that the souls of the Saints departed from their bodies, do stand as yet in the outward courts of the Lord, being admitted to rest, but not to glory. Into that most blessed ●…ouse, saith he, they shall not enter neither without us, nor without their bodies. Those that place souls in (some part of) heaven, so they give them not the glory of the resurrection, (to be showed on them at the time of the resurrection and not before) they differ nothing from the former opinion. And in his institutions. 
i calvinus 〈◊〉. li. 3. ca 25. § 6.  Since the Scripture every where biddeth us depend upon the expectation of Christ's coming, and differreth the crown of glory 〈◊〉 that time, let us be content with the bounds, which God hath appointed us; that the souls of the godly having ended their warfare (of this life) depart into an happy rest, where with a blessed joy they look for the fruition of the promised glory; and so all things stand suspended till Christ our redeemer appear. Then none of these writers, old nor new, so conceived, or so expounded Christ's words, as you do, that all his Saints do locally accompany him and generally, wheresoever he abideth, or whithersoever he goeth.  

k Defenc. pag. 149. li. 23.  The Fathers all with one voice (I may truly affirm) teach and believe even that Christ after death went no whither, but where his faithful and holy servants were: yea and there remained till his resurrection. To which consent of men some where you ascribe exceeding much.] Your assertions all the Fathers with one consent refuse, to which agreement of learned and ancient writers I confess I yield very much, when there is no express Scripture against it, alleged and urged by some of themselves; as in all the cases where I forsake them, there is: but what is that to your novelties, who neither in the first, nor second question yield any thing to their judgements and censures; put them altogether? That the souls of the faithful before the coming of Christ were in Abraham's bosom our Saviour first delivered, and no father, that I know, departeth from it; but where Abraham's bosom was, whether in earth or elsewhere, and whether it were a skirt of hell or no, till Christ transferred them thence to Paradise; of this some fathers diversely think, and diversely speak. And but that Saint Austin learnedly discusseth and resolveth this point, that Abraham's bosom could be 
l August. 〈◊〉. 99  no member, nor part of hell, since this was a secret habitation of rest and happiness, which the Scripture never affirmeth of hell, but calleth it a place of torment; it would be hard for you, or any of your crew to say where Abraham's bosom was. That Christ after death went to the place, where the faithful were in expectation and desire of his coming to redeeine the world; the Fathers affirm; but that he went no whither else, or that hec went not to the place of the damned as well to discharge and release his members thence, that is from all fear and danger thereof, as to destroy the power of the devil over all his, and to triumph over the force and fury of Satan in his own person, that every knee of things under the earth should bow to him, as well as of things in heaven and earth, in this you utterly mistake the consent of the Fathers, which you so much talk of; and show that you never came near the reading of them, howsoever you presume to affirm what you list, of them. And lest I should carry the Reader without cause to rest on my word, as you would have him do on yours, he shall hear the Fathers speak their own minds, and so the better judge of your abusing them.  
Ireneus. 
m Ireneus li. 5. ca 31.  David said prophesying this of Christ, thou hast delivered my soul from the nethermost hell. Cyprian. 
n Cyprian de pass Christi. ●…ant. carm●…●…ie do●… resurrectio●…  When in Christ's presence hell was broken open & captivity made captive, his conquering soul being presented to his father's sight, returned without delay to his body. Lactantius, or as some think Venantius. ᵒ The darkness fled at the brightness of Christ, & the gross mist of eternal night vanished. Hinc tumulum repetens post tari●…ra, carne resumpta, belliger ad coelos ampla trophea refers. Then after thy being in hell, thou going to thy grave, & resuming thy body, as a warrior thou bar●…st to heaven a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 CONQUEST (over hell.) Athanasius. 
p Athanasius de humanitate Christi contra A●…nos.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; who ever went to hell besides the son, which rose from the dead? 
q Idem contra A●…ian oratio 4.  at the sight of whom 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the keepers of hell gates shr●…ncke for fear. Yea 
r Idem de virgin●…tate.  HADES, HELL (or the Devil) at the sight of him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, was afraid and amazed saying: Who is this, that descendeth (hither) with so great power and authority? Who is this, that teareth open the brazen gates of hell, & breaketh the bars of Adamant? Who is this, that being crucified is not conquered by me who am death? Who is this, that looseth their bands, whom I conquered? Who is this, that by his own death destroyeth me, that am death? Eusebius. 
s Eusebius de demonstratione evangelica li. 10. ca 8.  To him only were the gates of death opened, & him only the keepers of hell gates seeing, shrank for fear; and the chief ruler of death, (the devil) knowing him alone to be his Lord, rose out of his lofty throne, and spoke to him fearfully with supplication & entreaty. Eusebius called Emisenus. 
* Eusebi●… mil. 6. de pas. ●…at.  The Lord descending darkness trembled at the sudden sight of unknown light, A●… praefulgidum fidus caelorum Tartareae caliginis profunda viderunt, And the deeps of hellish darkness saw the most bright star of heaven. Deposito quid●… corpore imas atque abdit as Tartari sedes filius hominis penetravit: the Son of man laying aside his body pierced the lowest and secret seats of Tartarus, (or of the dungeon of hell.) Hilary. 
t Hilar. de Trinitate li. 3.  The powers of heaven do incessantly glorify the Son of God for conquering death, & breaking the gates of hell. 
u Idem li 4.  In hell he killed death. Gregory Nazianzen. 
x Nazianzen, in Christo patient.  Going to the gates of hell all covered with darkness, thou shalt pierce hell with a sharp spear; and shalt deliver all, thou alone being free, and shalt besides have the victory over thine enemies; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, valiantly SUBDVING HELL, the SERPENT, and DEATH. Chry●…ostome. 
y Chrysost. de resurrect. sermo. 7. tom●…. 3.  Descendente in tenebrosam inferorum caliginem Domino ettam illic tun●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dubio dies splendidissimus fuit, ubi seruator illuxit, tenuit in illo noctis horrore inviolabilem Maiestatis suae splendorem. The Lord descending into the dark m●…st of hell, even there no doubt than was a most clear day, where our Saviour shined. In that horror of night he held the brightness of his Majesty inviolable. jerom. 
z Hiero. in Psalnium. 34.  Pro vita populi mortuus, non es derelictus in Tartaro. Dying for the life of thy people, thou wast not left in hell. And again, 
a I●…em in ca 12. li. I●…b.  Christ d●…stroyed and broke open the closed places of hell, and put the devil, that had power over death. from his kingdom and Dominion. Augustine. 
b August. epist. 99  If the holy Scripture had said, that Christ after death came to Abraham's bosom, not naming hell and the sorrows thereof, I marvel if any man would have durst to affirm, that Christ descended into hell. But because evident testimonies (of the Scripture) mention hell and the sorrows (thereof), no cause is occurrent, why our Saviour should be believed to have come thither, but to save from those pains. And again. 
c Idem. in Psalmum 85.  There is a lower hell, ●…hither the dead go, whence God would deliver our souls by sending his son thither. For 
d I●…dem.  therefore Christ came even unto hell, that we should not abide in hell. Ruffinus. 
e Ruffinus in expositione Symboli.  Eousque ille miserando descendit usquequo tu peccando deiect●…s es. Christ descended of mercy to the very place, whither thou wast dejected by sin. Fulgentius. 
f Fulgentius ad Tra●…mundum li 3.  It remained to the full effect of our redemption, that the man, which God took unto him without sin should descend even thither, whither man separated from God fell by desert of sin, that is to hell, where the soul of a sinner useth to be tormented; and to the grave, where the flesh of a sinner useth to be corrupted: yet so, that neither Christ's flesh might rot in the grave, nor his soul be ●…ormented with the sorrows of h●…ll. Cyrill. 
g Cyrill in Levitioum li. 9  The powers, Principalities and rulers of the world, which the Apostle numbereth, none other could conquer and carry into the desert of hell but only he, who said, be of good hope, I have overcome the world. Therefore it was necessary that our Lord & Saviour should not only be borne a man amongst men, but also descend to hell, that he might carry into the wilderness of hell the goat, that was to be led away; and returning thence, this work performed, might ascend to his father. Caesarius Arelatensis. 
h Casa. Arelatens. bo●… 3. de Paschate.  Aeterna nox inferorum Christo descendente resplenduit, attonitae mentis obstupuere Tortores. The everlasting darkness of hell was made bright with Christ's descending thither: the tormentors inwardly strooken were amazed. Prudentius. 
l Prudens. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hymno. 9  Tartarum benignus intrat, fracta cedit janua, fertur horruisse mundus noctis aeternae chaos. Christ mildly entered hell, breaking open the gates: the world shook at (the opening of) Chaos of everlasting darkness. 
k Arator 〈◊〉 Apostolica. li. 1.  Arator. Infernum Dominus cum destructurus adiret, Sol ruit in Tenebras, arua tremunt concussa locis, saxa crepant: tartara moesta gemunt, quia vincula cunta quiescunt. Mors ibi quid faceret, quo vitae portitor ibat? When the Lord went to hell to destroy it, the Sun was darkened, the earth shook, the rocks clave in sunder. Hell mourned to see her bands loosed. But what could death do there, whither the bringer of life came? Petrus Chrysologus, Mortem suscepisse & vicisse, intrasse inferos & redijsse venisse in iura 
Petr. Chrysolog. in Symb●…lum serm. 60.  Tartari, & Tartari iura soluisse, non est fragilit as sed potestas. To suffer death and to conquer it, to go to hell and to return, to come within the laws of the dungeon of hell, ●…nd to dissolve the laws thereof, is not weakness but power. And thus he maketh Christ to speak after his resurrection to his Disciples. Ego ex mortuis sum vinus: ex infernis sum supern●…s. Ego sum, quem mors fugit, inferna tremuerunt, Tartarus Deum confessus est. 
Idem serm. 81.  I am alive from the dead, and come up from those below. I am he whom death fled from, hell trembled at, and the dungeon of hell confessed to be God. Maximus, This day (of Christ's 
Maxim. serm. 4. de die sancto Pasch. inter homilias Euseb. Emiseni.  resurrection) which the Lord hath made penetrate omnia, universa continet: coelum, terram, Tartarumque complectitur, pierceth all places, containeth all, compriseth heaven, earth, and the dungeon of hell. For that Christ the (true) day lightened heaven, earth, and the deep of hell, the Scripture witnesseth.  
There should be no end of alleging, if I should cite all, that speak to this purpose. These be ancient and sufficient to prove this refuter a fabler, in affirming that the Fathers with one voice avouch Christ went no whither but where his faithful and holy servants were, whom the Fathers did not think to be in the torments of hell, nor in the place of the damned; and to show that I teach none other sense of the Creed, than all these Fathers, and infinite others did before me. Neither can they be shifted off, as this Trifler useth to decline them, who name Hades, that they meant the world of souls, which might be as well in heaven, or paradise, as in hell: since they speak of Christ's descent after death to that place, where there was everlasting darkness, and amazedness of devils, bondage and punishment of sinners, deliverance from destruction, an happy and mighty conquest over enemies, with such like circumstances, which by no means can agree either to Paradise or heaven, or to any other place but only to hell, where these things are found, and no where else.  
And if new writers may be regarded, I could bring as many or more of them of great learning and good judgement confessing and allowing this exposition of the Creed which I follow, (that Christ descended into Hell to destroy Satan's power and force over his, and to free them all from coming thither) as concurrent and consonant with the sacred Scriptures; and namely refelling your fancy, that Christ went no whither but where his faithful and holy servants were. The very Catechism which you would seem so much to respect, as if it were the public and authorised doctrine of this Realm, maketh it needful to believe, that 
l Catechism. Nowelli Gracolat. pag. 292.  as Christ's body was (laid) in the bowels of the earth, so his soul separated from his body descended ad inferos, to the places (or spirits) below, (that is, to hell) and with all the force and efficacy of his death so pierced unto the dead, atque inferos adeo ipsos, and even to the spirits in hell, that the souls of the unfaithful perceived the condemnation of their infidelity to be most sharp and just, ipseque inferorum princeps Satan; and Satan himself the Prince of hell saw all the power of his tyranny, and of darkness to be weakened, broken, and destroyed: and chose, the dead; who whiles they lived, believed in Christ, understood the work of their redemption to be performed, and felt the fruit and force thereof with a most sweet and certain comfort. The Catechism treating of Christ's descent to hell mentioned in the Creed, delivereth this to be the sense thereof, that Christ's soul separated from his body descendit ad inferos, descended unto hell. And lest we should doubt what he meaneth by inferi, he putteth inferos as a degree lower & farther than the dead, in saying Penetravit ad mortuos, atque inferos adeo ipsos, Christ pierced unto the dead, and which more is, even to hell itself and maketh Satan to be Princeps inferorum, the Prince of hell; Who is no chief ruler either in heaven or Paradise, but only in hell. Again he resolveth, that together with the soul of Christ came the power & force of Christ's death as well to the faithful, which were saved by him, as to the rest justly condemned for their unbelief; and that the Devil himself saw all the power of darkness afflicted and oppressed by Christ. More than this I do not teach; & so much the catechism avoucheth to be part of the Christian faith, and the meaning of that article in the Creed, Christ descended into hell.  
Peter Martyr likewise in the confession of his faith, and expos●…tion of the Creed, saith; 
m Petri Martyris in 12. Articulos fidei exposit. §. 20.  As touching Christ's soul; as soon as it departed from the body, it rested not idle, but descended ad inferos, unto hell. And surely the one and the other societic both of godly souls, and of the damned, found the presence of Christ's soul. For the souls of the faithful were cheered with great comfort, and gave God thanks sor delivering them by the hand of this Mediator, and performing that which so long before he had promised. Other souls also adjudged to everlasting damnation, animae Christi adventum persenserunt, perceived the coming of Christ's soul. Zanchius showing the different interpretations of those words of the Apostle, 
n Zanchius in 2 cap. epistol●… ad Coloss. vers. 15.  Christ spoilt powers and principalities, and made an open show of them, triumphing over them in himself, (that is, in his own person; saith,) Other Interpreters hold, that these enemies were v●…nquished and conquered on the cross by Christ; but the triumph was p●…rformed, when Christ in his soul entered the kingdom of Hell as a glorious victorer. For so they interpret the Article, He descended into Hell. And because the word deigmatizein doth signify to carry one in an open show, as the Romans were wont in the eyes of men to lead their enemies once overthrown, with their han●…s bound behind them to their perpetual shame; and the soul of Christ separated from his body might really do this to the devils, bringing them out of their infernal kingdom, and carrying them along the air in the sight of all the Angels and blessed souls: therefore nothing hindereth us to interpret that which Paul here writeth, as the words sound, even of a real triumph (over the devils) in the sight of God only, and of the blessed spirits: specially since the Fathers for the most part so expound them, & ex nostris, non pauci, neque vulgares, and of our Expositors not a few, and those no mean men. Aretius' in his Problems purposely treating of Christ's descent to hell, first allegeth, that 
o Aretij Proble. loco. 16. de descensu Christ●… ad inferos.  Tota Ecclesia ubique terrarum hody illum Articulum & agnoscit, & diver sum à sepultura recitat, the whole Church throughout the world at this date acknowledgeth that article, and reciteth it as different from (Christ's) burial. And to that objection, that some Creeds had not this clause, he answereth; 
p Ibidem.  The Church finding the descent (of Christ) to hell to be plainly delivered in the Scriptures, with great advise admitted this Article into the Creed. Otherwise how could it be that with so full consent of all nations, and all tongues, this clause should be so constantly, and so consentingly received? Repeating therefore many other senses he refuseth them every one, and concludeth. 
q Ibid●…m.  Quare mea est sententia, Christum descendisse ad inferos, postquam tradidisset spiritum in manus Dei patris in cruse, etc. Wherefore mine opinion is that Christ descended into hell after he yielded his soul on the Cross to the hands of God his Father. 
r Ibidem.  And hell in this question we put to be a certain place appointed for the damned, even for Satan and his members. 
s Ibidem.  To the words of Christ uttered to the thief, this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise, I answer; they hinder not this cause. For Christ was in Paradise with the thief according to his divinity, in the grave according to his body, in hell according to his soul. Howbeit there is no certainty, how long Christ stayed in hell: not long it seemeth; so that he might in soul that very day return from hell, and after a glorious sort enter Paradise with the thief. Neither hath that any more strength, that Christ commended his soul into his Father's hands. For the soul of Christ was still in his Father's hands, though he descended into hell. This descent was void of sorrow and shame to Christ. Where they say, there was no need of this descent, they run back to the beginning: for how should it be needless, which the Scripture pronounceth Christ did, and we confess in our Creed? We judge it therefore needful; first for the reprobate, that they might know he was now come, of whose coming they had so often heard, but neglected it with great contempt. Again, Satan was perfectly to know, that this Christ whom he had tempted in the desert, and delivered to death by the fraud of the jews, was the very Messias and the seed promised to the woman. Hoc inquam expediebat etiam Demonibus in imo Tartaro innotescere; This I say was expedient even for the devils in the deep of hell to know. Thirdly it was expedient for the elect, that Satan might see he should have no right no not on their bodies, since Christ hereafter would raise them to life. Hemmingius. 
t Nicolaus Hemmingius in 2. ca epistol●… ad Coloss.  As Christ by his death conflicted with the enemy on the gibbet of the cross, and overcame him; so by his glorious descent to hell, resurrection, and ascension to heaven he executed the triumph, erecting as a monument of his victory the ensign of his cross. Mollerus writing on the 16. Psalm. 
u Henricus Mollerus in Psal. 16.  Touching Christ's descent to hell; We (saith he) understand that Article of our faith in the Creed simply and without allegory: and believe that Christ truly descended to the lower parts of the earth, as Paul speaketh, Ephes. 4. It is enough for us to believe, which Austen affirmeth in his Epistle to Dardanus; Christ therefor●… descended, that he might help those, which were to be holpen. For Christ by his death destroyed the powers of hell and the tyranny of the devil, as is said, Osee, 13. O death, I will be thy death; and thy destruction, O hell. And this his victory he would in a certain manner show unto the devil, that he might strike perpetual terrors into the devil, and take from us all fear of (Satan's) tyranny. Let it suffice us to know this, and omit curious questions and disputations (hereabouts.)  
Pomeranus on these words of the 16. Psalm, Thou wilt not leave my soul in Hell; 
x johannes Pomeranus in Psal. 16.  here hast thou (saith he) that Article of our faith, Christ descended into hell. If thou ask what he did there, I answer; He than delivered not the Father's only, but all the faithful from the beginning of the world to the end thereof; not out of Lymbus, but out of the lowest nether most hell, to which we all were condemned; and in which we all were as in death by the sentence of God. There everlasting fire did abide to us all, that being delivered to death by the sin of Adam, we might in the last judgement be delivered to punishment and perpetual sire. Christ therefore descended even thither unto death and hell to this end, lest thou shouldest d●…scend thither, that as he had redeemed us from death, so he might deliver us from hell. Westmerus in his expositions of the Psalms followeth word for 
Bartholomeus Westmerus in Psal. 16.  word the confession of Pomerane. Wolfgangus Musculus, Christ therefore was to die, not that he should simply be dead, but that by his death he might conquer death and 
Musculus in Psal. 16.  overcome him that had the rule over death: and so he was to descend to hell; not that his soul should be subject to any infernal power, but that subduing the gates of hell he might deliver our souls from that tyranny. Of the article of Christ's descent to hell, I am not ignorant how diversly learned men do think. It is somewhat obscure indeed and subject to many disputations, but yet no godly man upon that occasion will resist or offer force to the Apostles words, (thou wilt not leave my soul in hell) but will desire of God the understanding thereof, and in the mean time with a single faith cleave to the word of truth, although he can not clearly perceive the manner how that was performed. Of this Article see Aust●…n Epistle 99 Vrbanus Regius, The Church delivereth us out of the Scriptures that Christ after he was 
Vrbanus Regius in Catechismo minore.  dead on the cross, descended also to hell to suppress Satan and hell, (to the which we were condemned by the just judgement of God) and to spoil and destroy the kingdom of death. Zacharias Scilterus: The descent of Christ to hell (whereof mention is made in the Apostles 
Scilterus de R●…gno Christi Thesi. 38.  Creed after the death and burial of Christ) is to be understood simply according to the letter and without allegory of the ostension and declaration of Christ's victory no less glorious than terrible, (as Luther writeth to Philip Melancthon) indeed made to the devils in hell or in the place of the damned, and of Christ's expugning, disarming, spoiling and captivating the power of Satan, and of his destroying hell and everting the whole kingdom of Satan, and of his delivering us from the power of death and eternal damnation; and out of the jaws of hell. David Chytreus. The Article of the Creed let us retain 
David. Chytraus' in Symbolum.  simply as the words sound; and let us resolve, that the Son of God truly descended to hell to deliver us from hell, to which we were condemned for sin in Adam; and from the power and tyranny of the devil, by which we were held captive. Of which effect and fruit of Christ's descent the Fathers speak; (as) jerom, Christ descended to hell that we might ascend to heaven. And Fulgentius, The man which God assumed, descended thither, whither man separated from God by defert of sin fell, that is to hell, where the soul of a sinner used to be tormented. And Augustine. Dying for thee, I descended to hell to bring thee to Paradise; Tartara adij, ut tu in caelo regnares; I went to the place of the damned, that thou mightest reign in heaven. Georgius Mylius in his explication of the Augustane confession. 
Mylius in Augustanae confessionis explicatione articulo 3. de Christo.  The true and proper sense of this Article is, that no metaphorical, but a real descent of Christ to hell must be understood, whereby he descended to the lower parts of the earth, Eph. 4. vers. 9 Et ipsas Damnatorum sedes adijt; and went to the very place of the damned. The second point is, that this Article is no part of his passion and humiliation, but of his victory and triumph. I omit infinite others, not only private writers, but Universities, Cities, and Countries, that have publicly approved the same doctrine, admitting and allowing the Augustane confession exhibited by the States of Germany to Charles the Emperor, which thus they declare in their book of Concord. With one consent 
Concordia electoru●…r nei●…ū & ordinum Imperij & theologerum qui Augustanum confessionem amplectuntur articulo 9 de descensu Christi ad inferos.  we advise this matter not to be disputed, but this Article (of Christ's descent to hell) to be most simply believed and taught. It ought to suffice us, if we know, that Christ descended into hell, destroyed hell to all believers, and by him (or his descent thither) we were taken out of the power of death and Satan, from everlasting damnation, and even out of the jaws of hell. The manner how this was done, let us not curiously search, but refer the (exact) knowledge hereof to an other world, where not only this mystery, but many others simply believed of us in this life, shall be revealed, which pass the reach of our blind reason.  
And where some would so moderate this Article, as if it meant no more but that the force and effect of Christ's death was manifested as well to the damned to exclude them from all hope, as to the faithful to increase their comfort; Luther sharply, but truly, thus refuteth that fancy. Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell. 
y Lutherus in Psal. 16.  The sense (hereof) is most plain, so plentifully and diligently delivered by the Apostles. But even here have men presuming all things of their wits, begun to dispute, whether Christ were in hell as touching his soul, and the substance thereof, and what this meaneth, that he was in hell. And a great number have dared to contradict the spirit (of God) that Christ's soul was not in hell but by effect: being for sooth handsome glozers of the word of God; Thou wilt not leave my soul, that is, the effect of my soul, in hell: Christ descended to hell, that is, he effected somewhat in hell: but despising these frivolous and impious trifles, let us simply understand the words of the Prophet, as they are simply spoken; and if we can not understand them, let us faithfully believe them. Greater is the authority of this Scripture, than the capacity of all men's wits, as Augustine saith. For the soul of Christ according to her substance truly descended to hell. To like purpose might exceeding many new writers be brought, all confessing the descent of Christ's soul to the very place of the damned and of the devils, that the truth, force and glory of his human soul might appear as well to the reprobate angels and spirits under earth, as to the elect above the earth; God making the human nature of his Son this recompense, that as he was despised and reproached by Satan in his instruments, so he should be adored and feared even of all the powers of darkness, and wholly despose of them and their kingdom: but these may suffice the sober Reader to let him see, that I deliver none other sense of that Article, then hath been formerly received in the church of Christ with full consent, and to this day is continued in the same by many great and grave Divines, whose judgements I need not be ashamed to follow; though I confess I depend not on their words farther than they conform their writings to the word of God, which in this case I take to be plain enough howsoever some quarrel be made to the divers significations of Sheol and Hades, which is as easily done in other Articles of the Creed, as in this; if it were the part of a Christian to wrangle with every word, that hath sundry senses or uses in the holy Scriptures.  

z Defenc. pag. 149. li. 29.  To (my) purpose other Scriptures do make very much, as where Christ saith, Father, into thine hands I commend my soul; and to 
a Idem. pa. 95. 150. li. 18.  the thief that hung by him, This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.] You bring Scriptures rather for show then substance; since they infer no such thing as you would enforce on them. The souls of the Saints living and dead are in the hands of God, and chiefly Christ's soul, when it descended to hell, not only to be brought thence, but even there by god's hand assisting to destroy the strength of Satan's kingdom, and to triumph over all the powers and Principalities of darkness. If those words did always import a present possession and fruition of heavenly glory, than could David with no truth have spoken them 
b Psal. 3●….  of himself so long before his death, when as yet no part of God's promises to him touching his kingdom were performed. But the souls of the faithful are always in the hand of God, whiles here they are protected by him, and after this life received in rest, though they come not, as yet to be invested with the fullness of heavenly glory. Yea the words properly pertaining to our saviours person, and condition after death, 
c Psal 15.  ` Thou wilt not leave (or forsake) my soul in hell, do show that Christ's soul was then in God's hands, and compassed round with the power and glory of God, when hell and Satan trembled at his presence, and were both vanquished and spoiled by him. Your adding, that this sentence may be fitly applied to Christ, proveth nothing. For though I have no doubt but Christ's soul was with far greater honour and favour, joy and bliss received into the hands of God, to whom it was committed, than the souls of all his Saints: yet that doth not prove his present entrance after death into the glory of heaven, and continuance in the same, except you will say that at his resurrection, and till his Ascension his soul was out of his Father's hands, because during that time it was on earth, and not in heaven; which were a strange position in divinity. 
d Sapient. 3.  The souls of the righteous (were) in the hands of God long before Christ's coming, as the wise man witnesseth; and yet were they not in the glory of heaven, but in Abraham's bosom, as our Saviour teacheth. And so the wise man expoundeth 
c Lucae 16.  himself, adding; 
f Sap. 3 vers. 3. & 7.  No torment shall touch them, they are in peace, and in the time of their visitation they shall shine: reserving them to a time appointed, when glory shallbe revealed on them, though in the mean whiles their spirits were kept in rest and joy under the mighty hand of God.  
The thieves being in Paradise with Christ, the same day that he died, concludeth 
How Christ was in Paradi●…e th●… day of his death.  no such thing, as you conceive. For first no words, there or else where, evince that Christ spoke this of his human nature. Saint Austen resolveth, 
g August epist. 57 ad Dardanum.  The sense is much easier and freer from all ambiguities, if Christ be understood to have said, this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise; not of his manhood but of his godhead. And in his 111. Tractate upon john, upholding the same exposition, addeth; 
h In johannem tract. 111.  He that said to the thief painfully hanging, yet healthfully confessing, (this d●…y shalt thou be with me in Paradise) according to his manhood had his soul that da●…e in h●…ll & his flesh 〈◊〉 the grave, but according to his godhead undoubtedly he was in Paradise. Titus' Bishop of Bostra in Arabia, somewhat elder than Austen, showeth how these words may be verified of either of Christ's natures. 
i Titus Bostrorum Episcopus in ca 23. Lucae.  How was this promise of our Lord made to the thief, this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise performed? Christ tak●…n d●…wne from the cross was in hell according to his soul, and nevertheless by the power of his divinity brought the Thief into Paradise. Happily he first carried the believing Thief to Paradise, before he descended to hell. Damascen is of Austin's mind. 
k Damasc. in homilia de sancto sublato.  The same (Christ) is adored in heaven as God together with the Father and with the holy Ghost, and he as man lay in the Sepulchre with his body, and abode in hell with his soul, and gave entrance to the thief into Paradise, his divinity, which cannot be comprehended in any place, every where accompanying him. And so is Euthymius. 
l Euthymius in 23. ca Lucae.  How said Christ, this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise? because as God, who filleth all places, he was every where at one instant; in the sepulchre, & in hell, and in Paradise, and in heaven. But admit the words to be meant of Christ's human soul, what reason call you this? Christ's soul was in Paradise that very day that he died: ergo neither that day, nor any day else before his resurrection, his soul did or could descend to hell. You must amend these reasons before any man will yield you to have reason or sense. Christ might that very day, that he went to Paradise, subdue and subject all power in hell unto hims●…lfe, he might do it the next day, he might do it the third day, when he rose from the dead: the time is not the thing we strive for, which we must leave to God; but the real and actual performance of the Apostles words, He spoilt powers and principalities, 
m Co'off 2.  and made an open show of them, triumphing over them in himself; which in other words Peter expressed, when he said, Christ's 
n Acts 2.  soul was not left (or forsaken) in hell: but 
n Acts 2.  God raised him ●…p, losing the sorrows of death (or hell) that 
o Philip. 2.  every knee of things under earth should ●…ow unto him, as well as of things in heaven and earth, and that every tongue (even of the damned and Devils, for there are none other under earth) should confess (either willingly or constrainedly) jesus Christ to be Lord unto the glory of God the Father. This conquest over hell and Satan being acknowledged, whereby all power in heaven and earth (and consequently in hell contained in the earth) was yielded unto Christ's manhood after his death, and before or at his resurrection, we shall not need to be curious about the time and manner thereof. The compilers of the centuries at Magdeburge do well admonish. 
p Centur. 1. l. 1. ca 10. de pass Christi.  Descendisse Christum in infernum, articulus sidei est, verum quanam ratione ibi omnia sunt gesta, non est express traditum. That Christ descended to hell is an article of the faith, but in what sort all things there were done, is not expressly delivered. Happily it is enough for us to h●…ld the general, and a more exact declaration of this mystery we shall hear in another life.  

q Defenc. pag. 150. li 21.  The eternal and general ordinance of God is showed (Luc. 16.) to be such, that none can go out of heaven down to hell, nor come from hell up to heaven.] You boldly presume after your manner, that Abraham's bosom was heaven, of which many learned men do make great doubt. For if the souls of the righteous were in heaven before Christ's death and bi●…th, then were they 
r Luc. 20.  equal unto the elect Angels before the resurrection, which Christ saith shall be when they are the 
r Luc. 20.  children of the resurrection, and so not before. And how were the words of our Saviour true, which he spoke in his life time; 
s john 3.  No man ascendeth up to heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man which is in heaven; If all the Saints deceased were in heaven? or how had he the 
t Coloss. 1.  pre-eminence in all things, if all the patriarchs and Prophets were there before him? again the words of Abraham reach no farther then unto men; they restrain not Angels from descending and ascending, and much less the son of God. If none without exception could go fro heaven to hell, as you would construe Abraham's speech, how fell the Devil and his Angels from heaven to hell? how did Saint john see 
u revel. 20.  an Angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, & binding & shutting up Satan in that pit? if Angels may pass from the one place to the other, how much more might Christ, who is the Lord & head of Angels, and hath the 
x revel. 1.  keys of hell and death? But since the Scriptures anouch Christ's soul was not left in hell, there are plainer and expr●…sser words for the being of his soul in hell, then in Abraham's bosom; & so if there be no return thence, no not for Christ himself, then by your lame and lewd collection you condemn Christ's soul to perpetual prison in hell. And how cometh it to pas●…e by your divinity, that Abraham must receive Christ's soul into his bosom, who was the Redeemer and Saviour of Abraham? is your skill so great that you forget Christ to be the son of God, and so meeter to receive Abraham's soul into his protection, then to be received of Abraham? but what will you not say and suppose to continue the credit of your conceits in the eyes of the simple, though no wise man, unless wedded to your devices, will any thing be moved with these weak suggestions?  

y Defenc. pag. 1●…. li. 19  As touching Austin's divers opinion and yours, see before page 29 and your page 360.] Could you find any diversity worth the marking between Austin's opinion and mine touching Christ's words on the cross to the thi●…fe, your modesty would serve you to make the most of it; but if I repeat divers opinions of learned writers, and leave the Reader to his Christian liberty, which he best liketh; what offence take you at that, except it be that I follow not your trade, which is to despise all the world besides yourself? Indeed in your 29 Page you say, I reject Austin's exposition of Christ's words to the Thief, this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise; which Austen understandeth of the thieves soul and Christ's divine presence in Paradise; but you keep your wont to tell ta●…es for truth, and to waste words when you want good matter. For I do not reject Austin's exposition, but only add, as now I do, since there is no Scripture to fasten Christ's soul to hell for the whole time of his death, Christ's soul might after death at divers times be in Paradise and in hell. Wherein I leave the Reader to his discretion, which of those two expositions he will embrace. Neither did I in this anouch more than Austen himself else where is content to yield. For reasoning against Felicianus the Arrian, he saith 
z August. contra Felicianum ca 15.  Seddicet aliquis, deitatis hanc, non animae Christi credimus vocem. But some will say we believe this (to day shalt thou be with me in Paradise) was the voice of Christ's deity, and not of his soul. To which part then of the thief do we take this promise was made? this day, saith Christ to the thief, shalt thou be with me in Paradise, whose body the common death had enclosed until the resurrection to come. It was then the soul of the thief to which Christ promised and performed this: Whereupon he concludeth Si igitur mortuo corpore ad Paradisum anima mox vocatur, quemquamne adhuc tam impium credimus, qui dicere audeat, quoniam anima seruatoris nostritriduo illo corporeae mortis apud inferos custodiae mancipetur? If then the body (of the thief) dying, (his) soul were presently called to Paradise, shall we think any man so wicked as to dare say; that the soul of our Saviour during the three days, that his body lay dead, was held in the custody of hell? So that though S. Austen acknowledge the other sense of Christ's divine presence in Paradise to be multo expeditior, & ab iis omnibus ambiguitatibus liber, far the easier and freer from all objections; yet he doth not endure, that any man should so fasten the soul of Christ to hell for the time of his death, that Christ might not thence depart and be in Paradise, when pleased him, as well as the Thief, but must stay in hell, as if he were kept in custody.  

a Defenc. pag. 15●…. li. 27.  How you will do to maintain that Christ went indeed to them, but presently left them that he might go to hell, I know not. In this I doubt you walk without your guide.] If I did use any such words, that Christ must presently post from heaven to hell, as if 
Christ needed no long time to descend to hell.  he were like to be benighted afore he came thither, you might busy your brains with lack of time and want of guides; but if Angels present themselves here from heaven in a moment and time almost insensible, what should hinder the soul of Christ endued with greater power and might then any Angel, to go at what time, and with what speed he would to do that which the Scriptures testify he did? If then the Prophets and Apostles bear witness, that his soul was in hell, and there not left, but ascending upward led captivity ca●…tiue, and spoiled powers and principalities; why play you the jade in jesting at an Article of the Christian faith, as if the way were long and tedious between Paradise and hell, so that Christ must have some time and help to dispatch so great a journey? The Apostle teacheth, that the resurrection of the dead shall be in a 
b 1 Cor. 15. vers. 52.  moment and in the 
b 1 Cor. 15. vers. 52.  twinkling of an eye. If so general and strange a work (as to have all their souls out of Paradise and hell joined to their bodies, and their persons alive caught up to the judgement seat of Christ in the air) shall be wrought in all the sons of men elect and reprobate at an instant; what incredible thing is this, except to an infidel, that he which made heaven and earth with a word, should in as short time, as he saw cause, show his human soul to the powers of darkness in the midst of their kingdom, and take all strength and rule from them, and lead them captive at his pleasure? And therefore never calculate so curiously the distance or passage from Paradise to hell; if these things were not marvelous in man's eyes, they were not meet works for the Son of God; but examine soberly, whether the Scripture avouch any such presence of Christ's soul in hell, and conquest over hell. And if that appear, teach men to leave the rest to the mighty hand of God; which brought the soul of his Son thither, in what time and manner he thought good, and might best make for his glory.  

c Defenc. pag. 150. li 30.  I add that which is clear and certain: yea that which yourself rightly believeth and professeth with us, though against the opinion of the Fathers, that the souls of the holy patriarchs dead before Christ were not beneath, but above; Not in Limbo, but with God in peace, joy and bliss, even in Paradise that is heaven.] Your certainties be your own overhasty conjectures, neither well understanding yourself, nor others. In the places, which you quote out of my Sermons, I say as Christ himself delivered that the just deceased were in Abraham's bosom, which the wise man calleth the hand of 
Of Abraham's bosom.  God: And that Abraham's bosom was upward far above hell, as appeareth by the words of our Saviour; more I durst not determine. Neither did I make Abraham's bosom to be Paradise or Heaven, I had no warrant so to do; but the place whither the soul of the thief was carried the day of his death, Christ calleth Paradise, which the Apostle seemeth to make a part of the third heaven. And here were the souls of the righteous after Christ's death, except you think that Paradise was provided only for the penitent thief, which S. Austen counteth a great 
d Epist. 9●….  absurdity. Thus much I said, and still say; as also that the faithful departing this life, 
e Reu●…l 14.  rest from their labours, and 
f 2. Cor 5.  dwell with the Lord, in places prepasred and appointed for them, though as yet they have not their house, which is eternal in the heavens, nor are clothed with life swallowing up mortality. But that the souls of the patriarchs were in heaven, that is in the glory of god's kingdom, before the death and coming of Christ, I have no such words in any of the pages which you produce. I use not of things unknown to give hasty judgement, I leave it to God, who hath many places of abode in his house, and desire not to search into his secrets unrevealed in this life.  

g Defenc. pag. 150. li. 37.  Hence I conclude that Christ's soul after his death ascended indeed, and descended not downward beneath us here. I hear your conclusion, but I see no premises from which you may justly infer so much. For though the soul of Christ might ascend after death, if we respect situation of place, in comparison of the earth; yet because the Scriptures reckon no ascending but into the glory of heaven, (otherwise the devils that 
h Ephes. 2.  rule in the air, should ascend, and the damned that come to judgement, shall ascend); the Christian faith doth not say that Christ ascended before he descended. And the apostle exactly observing the relation and application of those two words unto Christ, saith his descending was the first of the twain, that was performed. 
i Ephes 4.  This saith he, that (Christ) ascended, what is it but that he first descended into the lower parts of the earth? Otherwise if you be disposed to play with the ascending and descending of Christ's person, body, or soul before or after death, you may find us many descents and ascents besides the two that are mentioned in our Creed. The Nicene Creed saith of his person, that for us and our salvation he descended from heaven, and was incarnate by the holy Ghost of the virgin Marie; and of himself he saith; 
k john 6.  I am the living bread, which descended from heaven. Then after his death his soul ascended as you say, and so must descend again before his body could be restored to life. Now the apostle saith; Christ 
l Ephes. 4.  descended into the lower parts of the earth, and likewise must thence ascend before his resurrection. And lastly after forty days he ascended body and soul above all the heavens. here are six descents and ascents, if you list to control the Creed; but the Christian faith following the apostle, noteth only two, his descending to hell; or to the lower parts of the earth, and his ascending above all heavens; which were two material parts of our salvation after he took flesh, and profitable for us to know. And though you stiffly stand on this, that Christ's soul descended not downward beneath us here; Yet against the Creed, and the apostles words, that Christ descended to hell, and to the lower parts of the earth, no wise man will admit either your opinion or assertion, howsoever you think you can make a flourish with David's words, who saith he was 
m Psal. 139.  fashioned beneath in the earth: of which we will speak when we come to examine the force of the apostles words.  

n Defenc. pag. 151. li. 1.  Only except there be some special reason of good authority to the contrary, which is the second point of importance here to be considered. Touching which thus I say, without express and evident Scripture there is in the world no sound nor meet authority to disprove our former reason or conclusion.] Your reasons raked out of the Scripture are such, that no man need to regard; they are miserable mistake and palpable misapplying of the Scriptures intending no such thing as you imagine; and for the contrary they are plain enough, and such as have been received and reverenced by all Christendom without exception, till you and some others in our age started up with figures and phrases to mince and manage the Scriptures to your pleasure. They are ●…eely divines that do not know, the names of heavon and hell; of life and death of flesh and sp●…it, of Christ and of God, may be diversly taken, and diversly used even by example of holy Scriptures; but it is the high way to all heresy and infidelity to turn and wind every word occurrent in the Scriptures after every signification, that may be found thereof in the old or new Testament, without respect to the main grounds of the Christian faith, and to make Rabbins and Pagans to be the best interpreters of words used by the holy Ghost to express the mysteries of Christ's kingdom. And how come you now to be so strict in this second question, that without express and evident Scripture, against which you cannot so much wrangle, you will yield to nothing; who were so licentious in the former, that without all Scripture, and against the Scripture, you maintained a new kind of redemption by the death of Christ's soul, and his su●…ering the second death; which if you stand to the word of God, is eternal damnation of body and soul in hell fire? you show yourself more than a Patriarch in the Church thus to coin new articles of the Creed without all warrant of the word, and to cast out the old, though confessed and continued since Christ's time, because you find some words to have divers senses, at least with jewish and heathen writers, though not with Christians.  
Austen himself avoucheth well and faithfully, supposing there were no express, nor plain Scripture for Christ's descending, the●… (saith he) it were marvelous boldness, that any should dare say he went down to hell.] But the same Austen in the same place telleth you, that 
o Epistola ●…9.  evidentia testimonia & infernum commemorant, & dolores; evident testimonies (of Scriptures) mention both hell and the sorrows thereof, to which Christ came. And for full proof hereof, he saith eu●…n in the same Epistle, 
p Ibidem epistola 99  
p Defenc. pag. 151. li. 12.  We can not contradict either the prophesy, which said, Thou wil●… not leave my so●…le in hell; which les●…●…y man should d●…e otherwise interpret, Peter expoundeth in the Acts of the Apostles; nor the words of the same Peter, where he affirmeth, that (Christ) loosed the sorrows of hell, in which it was impossible he should be held. Who then but an Infidel, will deny that Christ was in hell? All that you have to say against this, is that jews and Pagans, to wit, wicked Rabbins, enemies to Christ, and Poets ignorant of all truth, used the words Sheol and Hades otherwise than the whole Church of Christ without exception, till our age, received and believed them from S. Peter's mouth, and S. Luke's pen, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth the foul, and hades importeth hell: put you from this shi●…t, and you fall ●…ull within the compass of S. Austin's challenge, that is, of plain infidelity; and the●…e be simple Sidemen to clear you from that crime.  
q Now I assume this and by God's help shall make it manifest, that there is in all the Scripture no one place whereby it may be proved by any show of reason, that Christ's soul after this life went locally downward from hence, or diversly from the so●…les of ●…ll good men deceased.] Though the opinion you h●…e of your ●…lfe be great; yet when you come to condemn the whole Church of God ●…s ignor●…t of the Christian faith, or altering the same; you should use some more modesty than to say, they had not one plat ●…all the Scripture, nor any show of reason to believe as they did. You pre●…ume much of your Rabbins and Pagans, preferring thei●… enuio●…s and frivolous i●…aginations before the judgement and faith of the whole Ch●…ch of Chr●…st yet take good heed lest the better and elder sort even of your own Deponents receive you not; and so you test convicted in the ●…ares of all good m●…n to be rather an insolent affecter of novelties, than any regarder of sobriety or piety.  

r Defenc. pag. 151. li. 18.  Only there are two or thr●… places sonsibly wrested to this p●…rpose. First, that (Ephes. 4.) where Christ is said to h●…e come down into the lowest parts of the earth.] If that place be wrested from his right sense, the Church of Christ from the beginning must be charged with that wresting. Ireneu●… citeth tho●…e very words of the Apostle, that Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth, and maketh them equivalent with the words of David touching Christ, Th●… hast delivered my soul from the nethermost hell, saying: 
s Irenaus' li. ●…. cap. 31.  Ho●… & Da●…id in c●…m prophet●…s d●…xit; so much Da●…id in his prophesi●… spoke of him. Tertullian alleging the very same words of the Apostle, concludeth; Habes 
t Tert●…llianus de anima. cap. 55.  regionem Infer●…m subterraneam credere; by this thou art to believe that the region (or place) of hell is under the earth. Cyprian: 
u Cyprian. de unctione Chrism●….  Descendens ad inferos captivam ab antiquo captivitatem reduxit. Christ descending to hell brought back the captivity, that of old was captivated. Arnobius: 
x Arnobius in Psal. 137.  Postea vidit inferos, & long factus est, non solum à c●…lis sed & ab ipsa Terra in abyssi profunda descendens etc.: after (his cross) he visited hell, and became far off not only from heaven, but even from the earth itself, descending into the depth of the bottomless pit. Chrysostom: 
y Chrysost. in 4. ca ad Ephes.  Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth, after which there are none other. And he ascended above all, higher than which there is nothing. Ambrose upon that place of ●…aul: 
z Ambros. i●… 4. ca epistolae ad Ephes.  After death (Christ) descended to hell, whence rising the third day, he ascended above all the heavens afore all men. jerom out of those words of the Apostle, Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth, first concludeth: 
a Hieron. in 4. ca epistol●… add Ephesios'.  Infernum sub terra esse nemo iam ambigat; Let no man now doubt but hell is under the earth. And expounding the rest, he saith: Qui descendit cum anima in infernum, ipse cum anima & corpore ascendit in coelum. He that descended to hell in soul, ascended to heaven with body and soul. Primasius upon the same words of Paul maketh the like collection: 
b Primasius in 4. ca ad Ephes.  Ergo sub terra est infernus. Qui descendit cum anima in infernum, ipse cum anima & corpore ascendit ad coelos. Therefore hell is under the earth. And he that in soul descended to hell, ascended to heaven in soul and body. Photius: 
c Photius apud Oecumenium in 4. ca ad Ephes.  To the lower parts of the earth, after which place there is no lower; he meaneth hell. Dorotheus: 
d Dorotheus de sancto Eps●…te Doct. 22.  What is, He led captivity captive? By Adam's transgression the enemy made us all captives, and had us in subjection. Christ then took us again out of the enemy's hand, and conquered him that made us captiu●…. Erepti sumus igitur ab inferis ob Christi humanitatem. We were then taken from hell by Christ's humanity. Theophylact: 
e Theophyl. i●… 4. ca ad Ephes.  At quem in locum descendit? In infernum, etc. To what place did Christ descend? To hell, which he calleth the lowest parts of the earth after the common opinion of men. Haymo: 
f Haym●… in 4. ca ad Ephes.  First Christ descended to the lower parts of the ●…arth into hell, and after he ascended to heaven. He descended to hell in his soul alone, and then he ascended above all the heavens in body and soul. It must be noted by this that he saith, Christ, descended to the lower parts of the earth: he showeth hell to be under the earth, whence it is called Infernus, because it is lower than the earth, or under the earth.  
Zanchius repeating divers Expositions of this place, addeth in the end: 
g Tan●…h. in 4. ca 〈◊〉 ad Ephes. verse. ●….  The Fathers for the most part are of this opinion, that Christ in his soul came to the place of the damned, to signify not in words, but with his presence, that the justice of God was satisfied by his death and bloodshed, and that Satan had no longer power over his Elect, whom he held captive: that himself was made Lord over all, and all power over heaven and earth given him; and a Name above all Names, that in the name of jesus every knee of things celestial, terrestrial, and infernal should bow: neither that he came thither only to signify this in such sort as is said, but also that he might c●…ie all the devils with him in a triumph: as it is Coloss. 2. He spoilt powers, and principalities, and made an open show of them, leading them (as captives) in a triumph by the virtue of his cross, by which he had purged sins, and appeased the justice of God. Could he not have done this, without any such descent of his soul? He could, but he would be so far humbled, that his soul should descend into that most dark and wretched place, though not there to suffer any thing, but to begin thence his triumph over the power of the Devil. And this opinion of the Fathers I dare not condemn, since it is not repugnant to the sacred Scriptures, and hath likely reasons. The consent of the Fathers when it is not contrary to the holy Scriptures hath great weight with me. There is as much difference betwixt this man's modesty and yours, as there is between his learning and yours. He durst not condemn the judgement of the Fathers, because it had probable grounds, and was no way contrary to the Scriptures: you avouch they had no show of reason from any place of Scripture. But your reward will be according: for where he is with all, and even by yourself reputed a sound and learned Writer; no man will take you but for an unsound and unlearned Boaster.  

h Defenc. pag. 〈◊〉. li. 21.  I have largely and plainly showed (Treat. pag. 140. ) that this place speaketh not a whit neither of hell, nor of Christ's soul descending locally, neither before his death nor after. I●… noteth only Christ's sensible and apparent humiliation to the last and lowest point, that is, to the grave; according to the Hebrew phrase, which the Apostles frequented in their Greek writings very much. You have showed it, as your manner is, with your seeming & saying that so you judge: but other proofs you offer none besides phrases and figures, wherein you take upon you to be very copious. I say then, Thus I say, It seems to me, and Thus do I judge; these be your best demonstrations, the rest is idle and vain talk. Three senses you make of these words, but not one of them otherwise than by your own authority. 
i Treat. pag. 144.  Some think, you say, that this Greek phrase (to the lower parts of the earth) is only a figure of speech, a kind of hypallage, for the earth which is the lower part of the world.] If every man's thoughts may stand for sound and true Expositions of the Scripture, we shall have many more devices than the world hath yet heard of; but how prove you this in●…erting of the Apostles words by your supposed figures to be the true meaning of the holy Ghost? Whatsoever pleaseth not your humour in the words of God, if you may chop and change with figures of speech, you will lea●… little the●…e, that shall not taste of your turnsall.  

k Treat. pag. 145.  Others do thank●… that it may be taken, as al●…ding to that metaphorical Hebrew phrase tachtijoth erets, the lower parts of the earth, where David meaneth his Mother's womb. And then wh●…re David meaneth only Christ's taking our flesh. The Christian faith was never framed out of phrases or figures of speech unknown to the people, and passing their understanding: neither did the Apostles so deliver matters of doctrine, as purposely ●…oluing them in every dark and doubtful phrase, that might be gathered out of Moses or of the Prophets: this is the way to leave nothing certain in the book of God, though the words be never so plain, as long as any phrase or figure may pervert it. If David once by a metaphorical kind of resemblance called the lowest part of his Mother's body, where he was fashioned and framed, tachijot●… arets, the bottom of the earth; that is, of his mother being earth, or compared with the earth, which is the common mother of us all, whence our bodies first came, and whither they must return; or noted the strangeness and secretness of his conception and formation in his mother's womb by the bowels of the earth, where metals and minerals lie and grow in like manner: What is this to the Apostles words, who dallieth not here with obscure phrases and metaphors, as David did for civilities sake calling his mother's womb the bowels of the earth, but expoundeth the words of David cited immediately before, that Christ ascending up on hi●…, led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men? That than which the apostle immediately addeth by way of a Parenthesis, must tend wholly to the declaration and exposition of these words of David, that Christ ascending led captivity captive: the later words, that he gave gifts to men, he presently and largely showeth how they were performed after Christ's ascending to heaven. And since Christ's conception, though it be an Article of our faith, yet was wrought by the holy Ghost, not as David's was, neither was Christ's body fashioned by degrees; first in seed, then in blood, after in flesh, as David confesseth his was, but after a more strange and wonderful manner, as the Fathers both Greek and Latin teach; and during the time of his conception, Christ did not lead captivity captive; his mother's womb can no way pertain to the Apostles purpose in this place, howsoever you or some others would feign show their devices in making the Apostle hunt after strange and obscure metaphors out of David's words once used for good manners sake.  

l Treat. pag. 141.  It seems to me a very plain hebraism, expressing tachijoth erets: which words are no where found for hell; for the grave they are found. Like to this is erets tachtith (Ezechiel. 31 ) where the several circumstances do plainly teach that the grave only is there meant, and the condition of death, the same sense manifestly hath another Hebrew phrase very like to this: Sheol tachijah (psal: 86 ) and Sheol tachath: (Esa: 14 ) where though many think hell is signified; yet surely the circumstances do convince that the grave only is there meant. this do I judge, that the descending of Christ to the lower parts of the earth may be taken truly, plainly, & as is agreeable to the Hebrew phrase, whence surely this Greek phrase ariseth, namely for Christ's humiliation unto the grave. here is your third exposition of the Apostles words, which you call a plain demonstration, that this place speaketh never a word of hell, nor of Christ's descending thither, but only of his grave: and if these proud and vain brags may go for proofs, you will prove any thing; but you must come back for all this haste, and learn that truth is not so lightly put from her holdfast, as you suppose. For setting aside your hypallages and metaphors, which are nothing to the meaning of the Apostle in this place, the ground which here you lay, that erets tachtith, the lowest earth, and Sheol tachtijah, the lower Sheol are no where used for hell, but every where for the grave, is false and full of rash resolution, directly repugnant to the truth of the Scriptures, and the circumstances of those places, to which you appeal. And lest the Reader should think I speak altogether out of mine own head peremptorily and presumptuously, as you do; he shall hear the judgement of some of the eldest Rabbins, and others well learned in the Hebrew tongue touching these phrases, and then we will examine the circumstanccs of the texts themselves. And because I would make but one labour of many; and the meaning of Sheoltachtijah; the lower sheol and erets tachtith the lower earth cannot well be discerned until we see what sheol naturally and truly signifieth, I will fir●…t examine the signification of sheol at which you and others so much stumble and then grow to consider of the places where those words are used and their circumstances.  
Sheol properly signifieth the pits or places under earth where the bodies or souls of the dead are received to corruption or destruction, so called for that they are never satisfied but always expect more, ever since man was adjudged to death for sin: and though in the great conceit of your own skill you tell me, that my 
m Defenc. pag. 152. li. 14.  not considering (or not caring for) the use and manner of the Hebrew tongue causeth my mistaking as in these places, so likewise in all, or most of the rest, and causeth mine error in this main question; Yet I hope I shall let the Reader see in the end, that proud ignorance leadeth you so rashly to resolve as you do both of the words and places in question, and likewise of my positions. Mercer●… a man of no mean skill in the hebrew tongue, as appear by his pains therein taken, in his additions to Pagnines Lexicon perused and published by Ceallere and Betrame, two learned hebricians of our age, observeth that 
n Mercerus in Pagnini thesauro in Rali●… shaal.  hoc nomine generaliter locasubterranea tendendo centrum versus appellantur, the places under the earth even to the (middle or) centre thereof are generally called by this name (Sheol) as by another name of the same signification, it is elsewhere called Erets tachtith, the lower or lowest earth (Ezechiel. 31:) and often with an adiect sheôl tachtijah for explanations sake. Proprie insernum dixeris ita ut locum significes. Hinc cum verbo descendendi passi●… iungitur. Properly you may call it hell or the place below, for which cause it is every where joined with a Verb of descending. Forstere in his hebrew Dictionary repeating what others thought of the sense of the word Sheol, as that some took it for the pit, others for the grave, some for death itself, some for the state of the dead; plurimi vero inferum, id est locum damnatorum; and the most took it for hell, even the very place of the damned; addeth in the end. 
o .  I am of this opinion, that I think it importeth in the Scripture most often the place where the dead are under the earth, so called for that it cannot be satisfied, as Lactantius in certain verses of his seemeth to render that Etymology of the word. Inferus insatiabiliter ca●…a guttura pandit. Hell opcneth wide his unsatiable throat. Et aliter verti commodè non potest quam nomine infernus, and cannot be otherwise conveniently translated then by the name of Infernus (hell or the places below) Deuter. 32) A fire is kindled in my wrath, and hath burned to the nethermost hell. So doth Ezechiel use another word of the same signification, ca 31. Thou shalt be cast down erets tachtith to the lower earth. Pagnine unknown to no man that is learned, for his labours in the hebrew tongue, saith, Sheôl 
p Pagnini thesaurus in ver●… sh●…al.  sepulchrum, infernus, Gehenna. Sheol signifieth the grave, hell, Gehenna. Munstere 
q Mun●…ieri dictionarium Hebraicum in Rad●…e shaal.  Sheolidem quod sepulchrum, fonea, infernus. Sheol is as much as the grave, the pit, and hell. Auenarius. 
r A●…enarji Ie●…icon in verbo Sh●…l.  Sheol sepulchrum, item infernus id est locus inferior sub terra. St de impijs dicitur, significat perditionem. Sheol is the grave; also hell, that is the lower place under the earth. When it is spoken of the wicked, it signifieth perdition. Lavater: 
s Lavaterus in 15. caput Proverbiorum.  Sheol non tantum significat locum damnatorum, sed etiam foue●…m vel sepulchrum. Sheol doth not only signisie the place of the damned, but also the pit or grave. And before them all Lyra well learned in the Hebrew tongue, if not a jew borne, said. 
t Lyra in ca 5. Esai●….  Accipitur 
vers. 11  infernus in Scriptura dupliciter; infernus (which is the Latin translation of Sheôl) is taken two wa●…es in the Scripture; one for the pit, where the Carcases of the dead are put, the other, for the place whither the souls of the damned descend.  
The truth of their judgements, that Sheol signifieth the places under the earth, where the bodies and souls of the dead are received will appear by the very confession of the Rabbins themselves, as well as by the direction of the Scriptures. Touching the situation of Sheol Rabbi Abraham saith. 
u Rabbi Ab●…a. in ca 2. Ion●….  Sheol m●…kom aamakhephec bashamaijm shehu marom. Sheol is a deep place opposed to heaven, which is on high. And again 
x I●…m in Psal. 139.  Sheol is the lowest place of the whole earth opposite to heaven. Rabbi Levi. 
y Rabbi Levi in ca 26. job.  Sheol high mattah bemuchalat vehi markez. Sheol is absolutely below, & is the centre (of the earth.) And that with them it importeth hell I mean Gehenna, the place appointed to torment the souls of the wicked, there can be no question. Rabbi jehosuas the son of Levi delivering the names of hell, that are occurrent in the Scripture, saith, 
z In ●…bro ●…rubin cap. Osio●… passin.  there be seven names of Gehenna, and these they are. Sheol, Abadon, destruction, Borachia Shachath, the pit of perdition. Borachia Sheon the lake of ruin or roaring, tithe haiaven, the bottom of the mire, Zal-maveth, the shadow of death, Erets tachtith the lower earth. In the exposition of the 11 Psalm there are repeated as 
a Midras ●…ebium in Psal. 11.  places of abode for the wicked in Gehenna, Sheol, Abadon, Erets tachtith. David Kimchi commenting on these words of the 9 Psalm, sinners shall be turned to Sheol, saith. 
b Rabbi David Kimchi in Psal. 9  Vuederash lishola hu gehinnam, and in derash, Sheol is Gehenna. Elias the Levite in his Caldaie Lexicon saith: 
c Elias in Methur. geman verbo Sheol.  Veiesh Sheol Methurgemim gehinnam. Sheol with the (Translators or) Interpreters is Gehenna. The Caldaie paraphrase expressing those words of David, The shape (or beauty) of the wicked) shall consume in Sheol, but God will redeem my soul from the hand of Sheol, thus rendereth them: 
d Chaldea paraphrasis in Psal. 49. vers. 15 & 16.  Their bodies shall wax old in Gehenna, but the Lord will redeem my soul from gehenna. Rabbi Solomon likewise expoundeth Sheol in that place by 
e ●…abb. Solomon in Psal. 49.  Gehinnam. So in the sixth Psalm it is said, Whosoever is not circumcised, 
f Midras' tehilim in Psal. 6.  iored Gehinnam, goeth to Gehenna, as Esay threateneth; Sheôl hath enlarged itself. Rabbi Moses Hadarsan upon the first of Genesis: 
g Rabbi Moses Hadarsan in 1 ca Genes.  Gehenna is said to be deep, as it is in the ninth of the Proverbs. In the deep of sheôl are the guests (of an harlot). The Hebrew gloss upon those words of God uttered by Moses, A fire is kindled in my wrath, and shall burn to the nethermost Sheol, saith; 
h In libro Tanchuma.  In my wrath, that is, in the midst of Gehenna, as it afterward followeth, and shall burn to the lowest sheôl. Rabbi joden expounding the words of David, Thou hast delivered my soul from the nethermost Sheol, saith; 
i Rabbi joden in Midras' tehilim Psal 85.  The way of Adulterers leadeth to the deep of hell, and therefore he saith, Thou hast delivered my soul from the nethermost sheôl. With whom Rabbi Selomo concordeth: 
k Gl●…ssa Rabbi Selom. Ibidem.  The way of Adulterers is to be in the deep of hell, and thence hast thou delinered me, said David, when Nathan said unto me, The Lord also hath taken away thy sin. And lest we should doubt what they mean by Gehinnam, Elias the Levite saith,; 
l Elias in Thesbi verbo Gehinnam.  Kareü Rabbothenu mekom ônesh hareshaim achar motham gehinnam. Our Rabbins call the place of punishment for the wicked after their deaths, Gehenna.  
Neither want these jews that avouch Sheol, and specially the nether most Sheol to be below in the deep of the earth, to be opposite to heaven, & to be the place of punishment for the wicked after their deaths, warrant in the sacred Scriptures to uphold these assertions. For though Sheol extend to any place under earth, that by God's ordinance requireth or receiveth the bodies or souls of the dead, & in that respect to the godly it can be no more than the grave, & the loss of all things in this life consequent to the grave; & in that sense we must interpret Sheol, when it is applied to the bodies or persons of the Saints, whose souls are in rest and bliss with God, & not under the earth, where Sheol is: yet the full force of that word when it is threatened to any, or affirmed of the wicked, noteth the pit of destruction for their souls, aswell as of corruption for their bodies, & the consequents of either; & the nethermost Sheol expressly designeth the place of torment appointed for sinners, that die out of God's favour, & receive the just reward of their unrighteousness. 
m Prou. 15.  The way of life, saith Solomon, is above to him that knoweth to decline from Sheol, that is below. Where first it is evident, that as 
vers. 24.  heaven is above, in which is true and eternal life; so Sheol, which is the pit of death for body and soul, is below us, which must needs be in the earth under us. This partition of celestial, terrestrial and infernal persons and places the Apostle warranteth by this authority, when he saith. 
n Phil p. 2.  Every knee of things 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in heaven, on the earth: and under the earth (should (and) shall) bow at the name of jesus. And since the whole world is by the word of God in the creation, conservation, and alteration thereof sufficiently divided into heaven and earth; the place of hell must of necessity be either out of the whole world created by God, and so no where; or in heaven, which is an impious absurdity and monstrous contrarie●…e; or else it must be within the compass of the earth: and not being upon the earth where men live, it must needs be under the earth, whither the wicked descend when they die. This distribution also Saint john ratifieth, when he saith, 
o Apoca. 5.  None in heaven, nor on earth, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, nor under the earth, was able to open the book. Wherefore the book of job to express the infiniteness of God's perfection and wisdom, useth these four comparisons. 
p job 11.  The heavens are high, what canst thou do (there)? It is deeper than Sheol; how canst thou know it? the measure thereof is longer than the earth, and brother than the sea. Where if we be not wilfully bl●…nd, we cannot choose but see, that Sheol is not only deep, but the deepest place in the world; even as heaven is the highest. To compare the wisdom of God with the grave, which is six foot deep, or not so much, were most ridiculous, since we commonly dig to that depth and deeper upon divers occasions. And therefore Sheol is the deepest place in the earth, to which no man living ever pierced, to make report of the deepness of it. Moses confirmeth the same when he saith; 
q Deut. 32.  sire shall burn to the lower Sheol, and shall eat through the earth, and inflame the foundations of the hills.  
As the situation of Sheol is below under the earth, that is in the bottom of the earth, so is it a place threatened to the souls, not only to the bodies of the wicked, though at length it shall receive both. David putting a difference betwixt himself and the wicked, saith, 
r Psal 49.  Like sheep shall they be laid in Sheol, but God will red●…eme my soul from the hand of Sheol. David never dreamed that his soul should be in the grave, nor that the souls of the wicked should there be laid: much less that his body should be freed from the grave, more than the bodies of such as knew no God at all. Sheol then here, as in sundry other parts of Scripture, signifieth somewhat, from which the godly shallbe saved, and whereto the wicked shallbe everlastingly adjudged. But that is not the grave, which is common to all men, good and bad. It was therefore the Sheol of souls from which David hoped to be delivered, and which the wicked shall not avoid: And so are his very words. The Lord will deliver my soul from 
Psal. 49. v. 15.  the power of Sheol. Again the full reward of wickedness is not the grave whereto the godly come as well as the godless. But Sheol is threatened in the Scriptures as the full and final wages of all impiety, neither is there any other note or name for hell, except metaphorical throughout the Old Testament. Wherefore when David saith, 
t Psal. 9 v. 17.  sinners shall be turned to Sheol, and all nations that forget God; he doth not threaten them with that, which is general to all God's children, but with that, which is peculiar to all God's enemies, which must needs be hell, and not the grave. And so much calvin himself, who otherwise overmuch urgeth the right sense of Sheol to be the grave, confesleth to be the true meaning of this place." The Hebrew word Sheôlah (to Sheol) 
〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 9 v 1●….  which was ambiguous, I doubted not to translate by the name of hell. For though it displease me not, that others translate it the grave, yet it is certain, that somewhat here is noted by the Prophet besides the common death. Otherwise he should say nothing of the wicked, that should not indifferently agree to all the faithful. Observe this rule, which indeed is true, that when the Scriptures threaten the wicked with Sheol, they mean not the grave, which is common to all the godly; but that Sheol, which is appointed for the wicked, from which the faithful shall be freed, and you may spare all your figures and phrases, wherewith you load both yourself and your Reader in this place to no purpose. For there is a Sheol, as Solomon noteth, that shall 
x Prou. 1. v. 12.  swallow men alive and whole, which cannot be the grave, where there lieth but one part of man and that after his death. And since the Scripture in exact terms maketh a lower Sheol, which cannot be but in comparison of an higher, with what face can you elude the lower Sheol to be nothing but the grave, whereas one and the same thing cannot be by any means both lower and higher in respect of itself? And therefore howsoever you could shuffle with the name of Sheol, without addition against both learning and truth; yet to avouch the lower Sheol to be only the grave, is only a point of your accustomed impudency, which regardeth neither reason nor sense, so long as you may ourface all with your private and witless fancy.  
Come now to the place of Esaie the fourteenth, where you so prem●…rily pronounce, that whatsoever others think, the circumstances do convince the grave only is there meant; and see your own folly, if pride have not so closed your eyes, that you can discern nothing besides your own dreams. In the words of Esaie are sundry circumstances, which plainly prove Sheol there not to be taken for the grave only. The first is the situation of Sheol, which the Prophet there saith is below. 
y Esai. 14. v. 9  Sheol from below is stirred to meet thee; not meaning the dead should be then raised to life, but the Ghosts below should be moved and affected with the sudden fall of that mighty tyrant. It is also there opposed to heaven, as the lowest place to the highest; for where through pride the king of Babylon said in his heart, 
z vers. 13.  I will ascend to heaven, and exalt my throne above the stars of God; the Prophet replieth, 
a vers. 15.  thou shalt be thrust down to Sheol, to the sides of the lake. Secondly there are in that place attributed to them in Sheol remembrance, admirance, irrision, and speech, which by no means can agree to dead carcases in the grave, but to spirits and souls in hell; neither had the dead body of the king of Babylon any sense, sorrow, or shame for his foul fall, which their insulting in hell against him purposed to impress. Thirdly the cruelty, tyranny, pride, and rage of the king of Babylon against God's people were greater than to be requited only with the grave, as were all other men even the jews themselves that were the Servants of God & their most religious Kings. It was therefore no way fitting for the justice of God against his enemies, nor for his love to his own, to menace the oppressors & murderers of his people with no more, but only with the grave. For since God by the same prophet threatened the king of Asshur with Tophet for smiting his people, saying; 
b Esai. 30. v. 33.  Tophet is prepared of old, it is even prepared for the king, he (to wit God) hath made it deep and wide, the burning thereof is fire, and much wood; the breath of the Lord, like a river of brimstone, doth kindle it: how should the grave only be sufficient to revenge the outrages of the king of Babylon against the Saints of God, whose city he utterly destroyed, and kept them groaning in most miserable servitude? Lastly where you so confidently pronounce the grave only is there meant, a man may soon see, how little care you take in settling your sentence, since of all other things there specified, the grave is namely excepted by the Prophet, as no part of God's threats against that proud tyrant. These are his words. 
c Esai. 14. vers. 20. &. 19  Thou shalt not be joined with them in the grave, because thou hast destroyed thine own land, and slain thy people: thou art cast out of the grave, like an abominable branch, as a carcase trodden under feet. So that here you are taken tardy with a plain and presumptuous contradiction to the words of the Prophet, that where he threateneth, the king of Babel for his cruel oppression shall not be partaker of a grave after his death, but be cast out as an hateful care ass to be trodden under foot, you in your wisdom affirm the g●…ue is only here meant, whatsoever others think, yea though the Prophet himself expressly say no. With such principles you prop up your idle fancies in the Hebrew tongue, whiles you would seem learned in giving the Prophet the lie to his face.  
But here you will say is mention of worms, that should spread under him, and co●…er him, and of lying down to sleep.] This is all the show, that can be made out of sixteen verses in that Chapter describing the destruction of the king of Babylon and his issue, and yet these words neither do nor must infer the grave, which he should lack, but the putrefying of his body, though unburied; and his lying down to death, yet not in the grave. Neither is it to be doubted, but when his soul descended to Sheol below, his body was dead; the one doth not exclude, but rather include the other, except men descend alive to hell, as we read of some in the Scriptures; otherwise the soul is first severed from the body, before she go to her own place, which for the wicked is the lower Sheol.  
Thus much you might have learned out of old and new interpreters, but that you scorn to be directed by any man farther than your own fancy doth lead you. Of this place of Esaie jerom thus writeth. 
d Hiero. in 14. ca Esaiae.  He that through pride said, I will ascend to heaven, and be like the most high, is thrust down; non solum ad infernum, sed ad inferorum ultimum, ●…ot only to hell, but to the lowest step of hell. So the deep of the lake doth signify, for which in the Gospel we read utter darkness, where is weeping and gnashing of teeth. And withal we learn, that hell is under the earth, the Scripture saying unto the bottom of the l●…ke. Haymo on the same words. 
e Haymo in 14. ca Esaiae.  Hence we learn, that hell is under the earth, whose inhabitants in this place are designed by the name of hell. Hell is troubled to meet thee, because the angel, who is Precedent over infernal pains, hath stirred up, to meet thee, the Giants, that is the mighty princes of the earth, whom before thou didst heau●…ly oppress. Lyra very skilful in the Hebrew tongue, as appear by his often citing the Rabbins, upon the same place saith. 
f Lyra in 14. ca Esaiae.  here is the insultation of the dead, and first against the soul (of the king of Babylon,) secondly as touching the burial of his body. Concerning the first we must know, the jews & Catholic write●…s expound this place of Nab●…codonosors soul descending to the pains of the damned. But it must be referred to Balthasar his Nephew, and so it is said. HELL.] That is the devil the ruler of hell. VND●…R THEE] because hell is said to be in the deep of the earth. IS TROUBLED.] because the devils were busy about the receiving and leading of his soul. Bullingere likewise. 
g Bullingerus in 14 ca Esaiae.  The Prophet goeth on to describe the wretchedness of Balthasar the wicked king of Babylon. When therefore he was thrust through the body in many places by the soldiers, that broke into his palace, his soul went strait to hell. Where two things are to be observed; first that the soul of man doth not die with his body; next that hell is appointed as a certain place for the wicked, which here is avouched to be beneath us. Oecolampadius. 
h Oecolampadius in 14. Esai●….  Thou art descended to hell, and thy glory and mirth with thee. And as the body is devoured of worms, so the soul is tormented with the worms of an evil conscience. These are the treasures of rich and mighty men, which oppress others in this life; they carry nothing hence, but a wretched conscience into the Gehenna sire, where their worm doth not die, nor the fire quench. Pelican. 
i Pallicanus in 14. Esaiae.  The dead Princes in hell answer one another, deriding each the other, upbraiding violences, exercising wrath and indignation, raging with impatience and injuries, worms meat, and most wretched with the perpetual gnawing of conscience, even as in the kingdom of the blessed (Saints) they congratulate one another, and rejoice each at others rewards and honours. Gualther. 
k Gualterus in 14. ca Esaiae.  The sum of all that shall be said (by the Prophet) is this, that the Medes should kill the king of Babylon, and his soul be cast down to hell, among other tyrants to suffer everlasting torments. This place hath an evident testimony teaching us, that souls do not die with their bodies, but are spirits immortal, and gathered into a place appointed for them; the wicked to hell, where utter darkness is, and eternal weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mollerus. 
l Mollerus in ca 14. Esai●….  In these verses is described the state of the dead, which depart this life in their sins without repentance, as it is in the story of the rich glutton (Lucae 16.) for as he was carried to hell, so this tyrant, and all others, that die in their sins, descend to hell. Wigandus upon these words, 
m W●…gandus in 14. ca Esai●….  Hell below is stirred to meet thee. The Prophet saith, that other Tyrants in hell meet the Babylonian tyrant, and insult at him, qui iam in imum Tartarum detractus, sibi ●…iat similis, who being brought down to the deepest hell, is now become like to them. As these learned interpreters rightly observe the circumstances of Esaies' words, so depart they not from the propriety of the Hebrew phrase, which 
.  Munster confesseth generally to be this. 
n Munster●… annotation●…s in ca 4. Euangel.  The wicked descend lishol tachtith, to the lower sheol, that is, to Gehenna, where their fire quencheth not for ever.  
The words of Ezechiel 31 & 32, have as many and the same circumstances to resute your folly, as the words of Esay have, and make proof sufficient, that those words do not import only the Grave, as you falsely presume. First Rabbi jehosuas and Midras Tehilim of good authority amongst the jews, avouch (as I have showed) erets tachtith, the lower earth, to be the description and appellation of Hell in the Scriptures. Next, Mercer and Forster, and other famous Hebricians observe, as also yourself do yield, that erets tachtith hath manifestly the same sense and signification with Sheol Tachath in the fourteenth of Esay, of which there is now no doubt but hell is thereby implied. Thirdly, Ezechiel purposely noteth, and so nameth the same place, where all the uncircumcised and wicked, that from the beginning were barbarous and bloody enemies to the people of God, were gathered and received after this life, whereof many thousand were drowned, and otherwise deprived of their graves (except the name of grave be figuratively taken for death) when yet Ezechiel pointed out the place, where they were at the time that he spoke these words, even in the lower earth. Fourthly, Ezechiel giveth them sight, speech and affections, as Esay did, in saying; 
o Ez●…h. 32. vers. 30.  They are now ashamed of their strength, by which they became terrors to the living, and 
p vers. 31.  see and 
q 21.  speak each to others, insulting and upbraiding one another, even as Esay before described them. Lastly, the self same phrase is found in David threatening this vengeance to those who sought his soul to destroy it, that they should go 
r P●…l 63. vers. 9 & ●… 10.  betachtijot●… h●…arets, to the lower parts of the earth, and yet their carcases be left as a 
s P●…l 63. vers. 10.  porti●…n to the foxes, that is, to be devoured of wild and ra●…ening beasts. What the jews conceived by the lower earth appeareth by the prayer of King Manass●…s, which though it be not canonical, yet it is of credit enough to expound that speech, wherein he besought God, 
t Oratio Regi●… Manassis.  not to be angry with him for ever nor to condemn (him) into the lower parts of the earth. And the Hebrew translation of S. Matthews Gospel, which S. jerom testifieth was long before his time, expresseth the words of our Saviour touching his Church, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, by 
u Hebraicum evangelium Matth. ca 16.  sha●…re tachijoth, the lower gates. So that the same reasons serve to limit ezechiel's words, that served for Esays, and you have none other objections against them, but the self same that were before, which are very firuolous to infer any such thing as you resolve, that only the grave is meant by ezechiel's words. Yea the name of grave or sepulchre, which there is sometimes used, though not alone, inferreth as well eternal as corporal death in the wicked, the one being always consequent to the other in them. And so much Mercerus a man of good judgement admonisheth, Spul●…hri nomine scriptura exitium 
x Merc●…rus in 15. ca Prou. vers. 24.  & mortem aeternam intelligit, ex externa morte internam accipiens. By the name of (grave or) sepulchre the Scripture understandeth destruction and eternal death, noting the inward death by the outward.  
And as for interpreters new and old, they likewise concur in the exposition of ezechiel's words, and of David's, that hell is meant by crets tachtith, the lower earch, and tachtijoth arets, the lower part of the earth, no less than it was by She●…l tachath, the lower sheol in Esaias speech. jerom. 
y Hi●…ro. in ca 31. Ezechielis.  to the lower earth, hoc est ad infernum, that is, to hell, ad eos qui desc●…ndunt in Lacum, haud dubium, quin inferna significet, to those that descend to the lake, it cannot be doubted, but he meaneth hell. Lyra. 
z Lyra in ca 31. Ezechielis.  To the lowest earth, that is, to hell as touching the soul, which the Doctors say is in the deep of the earth. Munster. 
a Munsterusi●… in annotation●…bus 32. cap. Ezech.  If thou ask where are the Assyrians buried? (Ezechiel) answereth in the sides of the lake, and in the lower parts of the earth, by which the Prophet signifieth the damnation of body and soul. Oecolampadius upon ezechiel's words, There is Asshur and all his multitude: 
b Oecolampad. in ca 32. Ezech.  in Gehenna, in the place of the damned, amongst the uncircumcised Assyrians; round about his grave or pit, that is, in the midst of hell. For with this figure (of speech) the Prophet's use to describe the damnation of the (wicked or) accursed, who together with their souls are punished with everlasting death. Pelican: 
c Pellicanus in ca 31. Ezech.  Ad terram ultimam, hoc est ad infernum. To the lowest earth, that is, to hell. 
d Idem in ca 32  And they are said to be buried in pits (round about them) because they are gathcred in hell to the fellowship of their forefathers, and such as were like them; 
e Ibidem.  who by their ●…eenesse and cruelty against mankind, which they sought to oppress, deserved reproach with the living in all ages, and in hell everlasting punishment and fire. Lavater. 
f Ibidem Lavaterus homil. 133. in Ezech.  non solum Rox ●…d Tartara pr●…cipitatus fuit, not only the king was cast down to hell, but his wicked counsellors, soldiers, and helpers. 
g Ibidem.  By the uncircumcised he understandeth the d●…ed, meaning the king should perish body and soul. 
h Ibidem.  Out of this place of the Prophet (Ezechiel) we understand first, that there is an hell, or place appointed to punish the wicked; next that it is bene●…h us, thirdly, who shall be cast thither. The like is observed out of David's words, by jerom. 
i Hieron. in Psal. 62.  They shall go into the lower parts of the earth.] In inferno damnabuntur, they shallbe condemned to hell. Haymo. 
k Haymo in Psal. 62.  Into the lower parts of the earth, that is, into hell. Euthymius, 
l Euthymius in Psal. 62.  After death they shall descend to hell. Lyra. 
m Lyra in Psal. 62.  Into the lower parts, that is, to Gehenna, which is in the lower parts of the earth. So Pelican. 
n Pellicanus in Psal. 62.  They that seek me to death, shall fall on destruction, and be rather thrust down to hell. Pomerane, 
o Pomeranus in Psal. 63.  These things show that all the endeavours of such, as be enemies to godliness, shallbe frustrate, and they shall descend to hell to everlasting death. 
p Westhmerus in Psal. 63.  Westhmerus followeth Pomerane word for word. Bucer, David 
q Pomeranus in Psal. 63.  denounceth destruction to his enemies seeking his so●…le to death, as that they should be cast down to hell, which he meaneth by the lower parts of the earth. The verse ensuing fortelleth the rejection of their carca●…es to be meat for Foxes. 
r Bucer●… in Psal. 63.  Felinus insisteth on the very same words. Mollerus, 
s Felinus in Psal. 63.  They shall go to the lowest parts of the earth, that is, they shall utterly perish, and descend to hell, and their carcases be cast abroad in the fields to be torn and de●…oured of wild Beasts.  
Having now found by the circumstances of the Scriptures themselves, as also by the judgement of so many jewish Rabbins, Christian writers, old and new expositors that your heaping up of Hebrew phrases is but the vain broaching of your own fancies, and consequently that there is no cause for you to control the full consent of so many learned Fathers, as have applied the Apostles words to Christ's descent to the lower parts of the earth, that is to hell, which the Scriptures place under the earth. Let us see, which of these two senses, yours or mine, best fitteth the apostles purpose: Of yours I may safely say, it hath no coherence with the words, nor intent of the Apostle. For these two verses, the ninth and the tenth, interposed wi●…h a parenthesis, apparently pertain to the verifying of David's words cited immediately before in the eight verse, that Christ ascending on high, lead captivity captive. Before Christ's ascending, by way of relation the Apostle putteth Christ's descending; and because descending and ascending must have contrary extremes, from which and to which the motion is made, therefore to the highest heavens, above which Christ ascended, Paul opposeth the lowest parts of the earth, to which Christ first descended. The end of his descending is comprised in David's words, to lead Captivity Captive, which must be from the place of their chiefest strength; even as the end of his ascending after he had led captivity Captive, was to give gifts to men. Now these two are the greatest blessings that Christ in this life bestoweth on his Church, and in order follow one the other, as David first, and after him the Apostle setteth them. For we were first to be 
t Luk. 1.  delivered from our enemies, and from the hands of all that hate us, I mean the enemies of our souls, as Zacharie filled with the holy Ghost did prophesy we should, before we could serve him without fear in holiness and righteousness, as we ought to do, ●…ll the days of our life. Deliverance from the power of our enemies we had none, but by Christ's conquering them, and leading them Captive. And full conquest over them Christ had none, but by rising from the dead, and treading under his feet all their power and strength, not only against himself, but against all his. And no place fitter to dissolve and break all their force and might then in the chief castle of their kingdom, which is hell seated in the lower parts of the earth. So that this exposition of the learned and ancient Fathers, which I before abundantly delivered in their own word●…s, is so far from any just challenge, that it orderly and plainly lighteneth and justifieth the words of David, which the Apostle there taketh upon him to illustrate. Now in your exposition there is no such thing. For first the grave is not in the lower parts of the earth, nor opposite to the height of heaven, whither Christ ascended, according to the Apostles words. Next Christ descending to his grave, was rather lead captive of death, than showed any conquest over death. Thirdly before Christ, many rose from the grave, as well anciently raised by Elias and Elizeus, as then newly by Christ himself. But this conquest, which David here celebrateth, was not over the grave only, but over hell, Satan, sin, death, and all the power and fear of the enemy, which Christ led Captive, leaving none unconquered, and made an open show of them, triumphing over them in his own person; as the same Apostle elsewhere delivereth. Therefore this place must stand for good, till you or your friends bring better helps to unjoint it, than your and their idle phraseology gainsaying the whole Church of Christ for your private novelties and vanities.  

u Defenc. pag. 151. li. 32.  Where you expound the text and say, he descended to the lowest, and ascended to the highest, that he might fill all places with the presence of his manhood, you speak both inconueniently and far from the Apostles meaning. 
x Pag. 152. li. 32.  You add to it (with his presence) very deceitfully in a differing letter like the text, and together with the text. What censure this deserveth the godly do know.] What censure deserve you, that cannot speak three lines without an open injury, or manifest folly? You first confess I expound the text, and then you charge me with adding to the text; as if any man could possibly expound any place of Scripture, and add nothing to the words. Then were plain reading of the text, the best expounding of it; and so should all exposition be superfluous and injurious, as most of your expositions are. And who, besides you, so deeply doteth, as to charge an expositor with saying somewhat besides the text? but I add it in a different letter like the text and together with the text.] I cannot expound any place of Scripture, but I must insert the words of the text which I expound, and join them together with mine own. The text I cite not three lines before exactly as it lieth in the apostles writings, and set by the side the quotation of the place, Ephes. 4. with a direction to the words alleged by me out of the apostle. I then reason from the true meaning of the apostles words, who saith, that Christ first descended to the lower parts of the earth, and ascending on high lead captivity captive. Whence did Christ lead captivity captive, but from the lower parts of the earth? If that were the purpose of his descending, the lower parts of the earth were the place, whence he lead captivity (even all his & our enemies) captive. And so I made the conclusion of mine own, and not a fresh allegation, as you absurdly mistake, of the Apostles words; Christ then descended into the lower parts of the earth, and thence lead captivity captive; that he might fill all (places with his presence.) Where if your eyes were not more than dim, you might soon see, I quoted no text, as I did before, but declared by mine own words inserted, what I gathered out of the apostles speech, as the words interposed in an other letter, and with two lines enclosed, (but that the Printer did sometimes forget my marks and directions) do plainly witness. And to what purpose I pray you Sir in common reason were it for me to repeat a place fair and full as I do, and within two lines after to cite the same again with six words added, which were not in the former; except it were an exposition and no citation of the Apostles words? Wherefore your wisdom might presently have perceived, that the half circle which standeth after (places) did in my copy stand after (presence) and that the Printer by haste or neglect brought it nearer than he should. And those very words (places with his presence) you find twice in the same section in an ordinary letter, and cite them yourself as an exposition and not an addition to the Apostles words.  
But my speech, you say, is both inconvenient and far from the Apostles meaning.] Of that you are no fit judge, you must read more, and more indifferently than you do, before you will come near the Apostles meaning. Your exposition, that Christ first descended into the lower parts of the earth, and (then) ascended far above all heavens, only to fill all his Church with the gifts of his spirit, which by his ascending he promised to do; is far from the Apostles words and meaning. For in these words (to fill all) the apostle compriseth as well the benefits of Christ's descending as of his ascending. And even by his ascending we are assured of other and greater gifts, than those which are powered on his church here on earth for the support of his Saints in this life. Christ's coming to judgement, his raising our bodies from corruption, and conforming them to be like his glorious body, and bringing us into the kingdom of his Father, where perfect, eternal, and celestial joy, bliss, and glory shall be revealed on us; these be weightier and excellenter gifts than the graces of this life; and yet by Christ's ascending into heaven we have a manifest interest in all these. So that though it be true, that Christ departing from us, provided sufficiently for us, whilcs here we live, by the gifts and graces of his spirit; yet the kingdom of Christ, which cxtendeth to things, places, and persons celestial, terrestrial; and infernal, is far larger, than that part, which you mention, which cometh nothing near to the fullness of the Apostles words or sense. Since then by descending to the lowest, and ascending to the highest, the apostle noteth all the places in the world, the earth not excepted, from which Christ both descended, and ascended after he had finished the work of our redemption, and by his presence in every place was acknowledged, his power and dominion over all things in every of these places, hell itself being not able to make any resistance to his person or pleasure: the sensc which I giuc to the apostlcs words, that Christ descended & ascended to fill all places with the majesty of his presence, and might of his word, better declareth the greatness and largeness of Christ's kingdom now sitting in heaven, than doth the guiding of his church in the miseries and infirmities of this life, though I do not deny, but that is a worthy part of his excellent and supereminent power. And for that application of the apostles words, which perhaps you find not in your Note bookc, and so suspcct it to be the more inconvenient, Athanasius a man of more judgement, than I or you, or any that you follow, for aught that I know, first led me to it. 
y Athanasius de Incarnatione Christ's.  Christ performed the condemnation of si●…ne on the earth, the abolition of the curse on the cross, the redemption of corruption in the grave, and the dissolution of death in hell, Omnia loca permeans going to every place, that he might every where work man's salvation. And againc, 
z Athanas. de Incarnatione verbi. De●….  As than Christ our Saviour 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, filled all (places) on all sides with his presence, so he filled all with the knowledge of himself. Man compassed on every side and every where, that is in heaven in hell, in man, in earth, may behold the Divinity of the Son of God unfolded (by his Manhood.)  

a Defenc. pag. 152. li. 18.  Third: you make much of that which doth you not a pings worth of good: where it is asked, who shall descend into the deep? that is to bring Christ again from the dead. If the deep here did signify Hell, (which yet certainly it doth not, but suppose it doth) how will that follow (which you presume) that Christ dying descended into the deep. The text saith no such 
To w●…t dee●…e Christ descended.  thing. [You be a dainty divine, that think the Apostle here wandereth in his question, & e●…eth in his answer, abruptly & impertinently clapping things uncoherent together. If the Apostle did not refer the former questions to Christ, how then in his answer doth head, this is to bring Christ down (from heaven), & to bring Christ back from the dead? Will your wisdom then learn, that the question must fit the answer, & the one be pinned at least to the other. But Christ, you say, is not named in either of those questions, who (shall or) can ascend to heaven? who (shall or) can descend to the deep?] What thcn? are there not besides the answers, which name Christ, & so ●…ie the former question to the person of Christ; two manifest reasonsto restrain these questionsunto Christ? First that the co●…snes of faith there mentioned by the Apostle, which dependeth only & wholly on Christ, may move no such questions, nor doubt no such things. For he that doubteth, whether Christ dying descended to the deep, or rising ascended to heaven; utterly frustrateth the faith, that is in Christ. The persuasion then of faith, which must be far from moving any such questions of Christ, proveth those questions to pertain to Christ. Secondly the questions themselves exactly comprise the person of Christ, and consequently, though he be not there named, yet is he there ●…nely intended, as appeareth by the answer. For these interrogatives, who can ascend to heaven, or who can descend to the deep; are equivalent to these general Negatives, none can ascend to heaven, and none can descend to the deep, as is plain by the perpetual use of the Scripture. 
b 1. Cor. 4.  What hast thou which thou hast not received? 
c Psal. 34.  who is like to thee O Lord? 
d Esa. 53.  his generation who shall declare? 
e john. 8.  which of you reproveth me of sin? 
f Rome 8.  Who shall accuse the elect of God? Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? And a thousand like examples do exquisitely prove these interrogatives to be resolute and absolute Negatives. And so job expoundeth them. 
g job. 14.  Who can make clean of unclean? not one. If NONE can ascend to heaven, or descend to the deep, than NOT CHRIST; and so much the Apostle expresseth, when he saith, that Christ is excluded from descending, and ascending by those questions; and in that respect all, that will be faithful must forbear them. Then notwithstanding your exception not worth a straw, these are two main grounds of the Christian faith, that Christ dying descended to the decpe, and rising ascended to heaven, and he that but doubteth in his heart of either of these, by the apostles verdict emptieth and reverseth Christ's death and resurrection. And did not this latter question, (who can descend to the deep) pertain directly unto Christ, who only of all men that ever were descended to the deep of Hell, and returned again with safety and glory: we might not only justly doubt, whoe●…er (besides Christ) descended to the deep of the earth, but our faith teacheth us plainly ●…o den●…e, that ever man (Christ cxcepted) did descend to the deep (supposing now that to signify hell, as you do) and yet doth not our faith frustrate the death of Christ, but therein rather commend it, and exalt it, that never man was able to do, as he did, that is dying, and descending to subject hell under his power; and to deliver all his from thence. So that if the deep here do signify hell, then is here a plain resolution of the Apostle, that Christ dying descended to hell.  
Now lest you should take any pride in your pe●…ting answer, not worth a tag of of a blue point, the Reader shall see, that all interpreters, old and new, and even those, on whom you would seem most to rely, have with one consent comprised the person of Christ in these two questions, and yielded the Apostles answcre to be very extravagant, which God forbid, unless Christ were comprised as well in the questions, as in the answers. Oecumenius. 
h Oecumenius in 10. ca Roma.  The Apostle referreth these things to Christ. That is, waver not, neither say in thy mind, how did Christ descend from heaven? or did Christ being dead rise from the deep, that is from the lowest places? cast all such thoughts out of thy mind. Theophylact. 
i Theophylact. inca. 10. Roma.  Stagger not, (saith the apostle) neither doubtingly cast this in thy mind, how Christ descended from heaven, or how after death he rose from the deep, id est, ex abditissimo & profundissimo loco, that is, from the deepest and most hidden place. Erasmus. 
k Erasmi annotationes in 10. c. Roma.  Who shall ascend to heaven? that being spoken of the Law, Paul interpreteth and applieth to Christ. For that is, saith he, to draw Christ from heaven. Or who shall descend into the deep? that is, who will believe the things that are spoken of hell, except he see them? this is, saith Paul, to draw Christ back from the dead, as though he did not descend to hell, or they desired, that in their sight he would again descend to hell. Peter Martyr thus setteth the Apostles questions. 
l Petr. Martyr. in 10. ca ad Roma.  Who shall ascend to heaven to see whether God be reconciled to us by Christ? or who shall descend down into the deep to see everlasting death weakened and abolished by him, that is by Christ? Bucere. 
m Buceri interpretat. 10. ca Roma.  The Apostle acknowledgeth in this question the denial of Christ, and that he draweth Christ down from heaven, which admitteth this doubt. It is evident that the deep is taken pro inferis, for hell, and in this sense the Apostle seemeth to have used this word the deep, for he addeth, that is to bring Christ back from the dead, to wit, to account his descent to hell to be void, and his victory over death and Gehenna. Hyperi●…s. 
n Hy●…erius in 10. ca Roma.  Say not, who shall descend into the deep? thou art eased of this trouble by Christ's resurrection from the dead, and from hell. Gualtere. 
o Gualterus i●… 10 ca Roma.  Who shall descend to the deep, to see whether death be disarmed, hell gates broken open, the devils kingdom subverted and we truly redeemed from all these? do●… not they deny death to have been conquered by the merit and resurrection of Christ, and therefore would have him again to die, and to return to hell, to do that once more, which he hath already performed? Piscator. 
p Pis●…at. analy. 1. 0. ca Roma.  The heart of him that believeth, doth not descend by his thoughts to the deep, to try whether victory be obtained against eternal death. For if he doubt of this, he must also doubt whether Christ were dead, & ad inferos descender it, and descended to hell. Beza. 
q Beza annot. in ●…ap. 10. Roma.  Because the law proposed heaven but under an impossible condition, and threatened the deep, that is destruction, for the offence, to which we are all subject, whosoever cleaveth to the righteousness of the law, of force is compelled to cry out, who shall ascend to heaven, or descena into the deep, to take me hence, and lead me thither. But chose faith suggesteth, that Christ is he, which ascended to heaven to carry us th●…ther with him, and descended into the depth of death, to abolish him that had power of death. Take which of these expositions you will, it is evident in every one of them, that by the Christian faith both these impossible actions, as man thinketh, of ascending to heaven, and descending to the deep, were performed for us in the person of Christ, and therefore now to doubt of either, is to weaken & enervate the power of Christ, who most perfectly hath accomplished both, to save us from one, and bring us to the other. And here also by the deep, those whom you would seem to follow, understand destruction, and eternal death, as all the rest do, from which Christ hath freed us by descending, and destroying them for us.  

r Defenc. pag. ●…2. li 27.  This I say the dead here importeth the general condition and state of all the dead as it is opposed to the state of the living. Yea it is not unlikely that the former word Abyss●… the deep is used also here by the Apostle to signify (not hell but) even this condition and state of death, which is a gulf bottomless never satisfied and unrecoverable: like as Sheôl in Hebrew doth likewise properly signify.] You show yourself by your saying to have little care what you say, that not only you cross all Expositors without exception, but even the Scriptures themselves without any respect of truth, or touch of conscience. For where the Apostle proposeth this last point, Who shall descend to the deep, and return again, as possible only to Christ, and to none else; by your untidie tale; that the deep here signifieth the general condition of the dead opposed to the living, you make the apostle a weak reasoner, or rather a plain liar. For could Paul at this time be ignorant, that Elias and Elizeus raised some from the general condition of the dead, that Christ restored three from death, & Peter did the like for Tabytha? Is there not plain testimony given in the Scriptures, that through faith 
s Hebr. 11.  the women received their dead raised to life? If this were not only possible, but so usual, as the Scriptures declare, how could Paul make this action of descending to the deep possible but only to Christ? wherefore I say you must be better advised, or else you show yourself in an open and impudent falsehood to ruffle and revel with the holy Ghost testifying that many have gone to the condition of the dead opposed to the living, and yet been restored to life again. And consequently in spite of your heart, Abyssus (the bottomless deep) must not only keep his signification perpetual in the new Testament, which is the place appointed for the devils, but descending thither with return must import an impossible condition to all men, ●…aue only to Christ; which in the general condition and state of the dead is nothing so. Besides that the condemned to hell are truly dead, and so called in the Scriptures, is unknown to none of any learning save to you. 
t revel. 20.  Death and hell, saith Saint john, delivered up their dead. And if the second death b●… the truest and terriblest death, that is, wherein both soul and body are for ever dead, than hell is most properly the place of the dead, since all there are adjudged to everlasting death; where in the condition of death opposed to the living here on earth, the souls of the Saints do live with God, and taste neither torment nor death. Touching the word Abyssus the bottomless pit, with which you play at your pleasure, this may suf●…ce, that throughout the Scriptures the word is never used for the grave. For the depth of the sea, and bottom of earth it is used in the old Testament, and metaphorically for the deep counsels of God, and desperate troubles of men; but in the new Testament it is only used for the bottomless pit, whither Devils are afraid to go, as appear by their petition to Christ, not to be commanded to depart 
u Luc. 8.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into the bottomless deep, and where they are 
x revel. 20.  locked and kept, when pleaseth God.  

y Defenc. pag. 152 li. 37.  This meaning the Syriac translator (an ancient writer of no small credit) seemeth to have, sith he turneth it abyssum sepulchri, the deep of the grave.] The Syriac translation I reverence for antiquity, but you bring the Latin translator of the Syriac, that is partial by your leave, & rendereth the Syriac word according to his own supposition. For though the man were very learned, that made the Latin translation, yet in this and some other things he yielded over much to the private affections of some men with whom he lived & conversed. The words in Syriac are, who shall descend lat●…ehuma dashiul, to the deep of sheiul? Where sheiul in Syriac hath the same derivation and signification that Sheôl hath in Hebrew, and therefore standeth as indifferent to the She●…l of souls, which is hell, as of bodies, which is the grave. Again Tehuma in Syriac being all one which tehoma in Chalday, and thence taken, as they both are from tehom in Hebrew, and throughout the Scriptures tehom the deep being never applied to the grave, but to the great and unsearchable deeps of the sea, of the earth, and of hell, it hath neither sense nor truth, that 
z Luke ●….  Tehuma in this place should be applied to the six foot depth of a grave. Lastly, Tehuma without addition is used by the Sayriack Translator for the deep of hell, to which the Devils desired not to be sent. And sheiul alone is also put by him to signify the place of torment, where the rich Gluttons soul was punished after death. The Arabic Translator keepeth the same sense, which the Syriack doth, saying, who is he that descended ILEY AFFA●… LGIAHIM to the lower places of hell GIAHIM being used by the same Translator in S. Luke's Gospel to express the place, where the Rich man's soul after death was tormented. So that the Syriac & Arabic Translators fully refute your conceit of the grave, besides the sound and sufficient reason alleged formerly by me, to which Translators must confirm their words, that the Apostles speech here cannot be construed of the grave, without a manifest and inexcusable falsehood. For where then the sense of these words must be, None ever descended to the grave that returned, save Christ, this is so false, that children will not endure it to be thought apostolic: & therefore will you, nill you, the bottomless deep here in this place of the apostle must signify that deep: to which never man descended and returned, but only Christ. Which if it be not hell, we desire to know of you and your friends, what place you can plot us out to fit these words.  

a Defenc. pag. 153. li. 15. & 16.  The Apostle may (also) insinuate in this word a seeking to the deepest and farthest parts of the sea, to learn somewhere (if it might be) among all the creatures how to fulfil & keep the law. For so Moses (whom here he doth cite) expressly signifieth then so the Apostle also signifieth 
The true sense of Paul's and Moses words.  the very same.] You thought the Sextens would deride you, if you should rest on this resolution, that every day they dig bottomless pits to bury men in, when they themselves so easily get out of them; and therefore you now put forth to sea, and go a diving to see whether you can catch cockles in the deep or no, to learn of them how the law of God may be fulfilled. A pattern of your profound learning if a man would seek, he shall need go no farther than this Page and the next, where he shall find how ignorantly, absurdly, and untruly you rove at the matter and meaning of Moses and Paul, and miss them both as wide as the sea is broad. For Moses speaketh no word of the depth of the sea, much less of seeking to all creatures, how the law of God might be fulfilled. Neither doth the Apostle exactly cite the words of Moses, as you imagine, but somewhat altereth them, that he may fit them to Christ with greater effect and comfort, than Moses could unto the law. Moses speech is fair and plain. The jews, to whom he delivered the law written, could not pretend the knowledge of Gods will to be hid in heaven, nor far removed from them beyond the seas, that they should wish some would 
b Deuter. 30. vers. 12.  go up to heaven to bring it them, or 
c vers. 13.  over the sea to fetch it, but the 
d vers. 14.  word (saith Moses to the people) is very near unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thine heart for to do it: That is, written before thine eyes, that thou mightest read it, and pronounced in thine ears, that thou mayest remember it, if thou wilt take heed to observe it. I take heaven and earth to record, 
e vers. 19  I have set before thee life and death, blessing and cursing. Moses doth not say the performing of the law was not in heaven, nor beyond the sea: but the knowledge of the law. Otherwise you make Moses teach, that the fulfilling of the law was in their mouths & hearts, which is an open error, and repugnant to the truth of the Gospel. For 
f Galat. 2.  if righteousness (might be) by the law, than Christ died without cause. As you come nothing near to Moses meaning, so you serve farther from Paul's. The right way to decline death threatened to the breakers of the law, and to obtain life promised to the observers thereof, is not to look to the law, which we cannot observe, but to Christ, who hath destroyed death, and purchased life for us. And therefore after Chri●…s resurrection and ascension to ask who shall ascend to heaven, to procure us life, or who shall descend into the deep to destroy death for us, is to frustrate, through infidelity, that which Christ hath done for us. If we conf●…sse with our mouths, and believe with our h●…arts that God hath raised up jesus from the dead, to be Lord over all, that is, to give life, and save from death, whom he will, we shallbe saved; this is the Apostles purpose. As for merit-mongers, of whom you say the Apostle speaketh these words, it is an idle and drowsy conceit of yours. These words do no ways fit presumers on their merits, for they think they shall ascend to heaven by their works, they ask not who shall ascend: and in the bottom of the sea what merits can you devise, or to what creatures there should pharisees seek, how to fulfil the law? what babbles be these to be wreathed into the Apostles words? or who but you would place all the creatures of God, either in heaven or in the bottom of the sea? If you cannot write as a divine, speak yet as a man of common sense or understanding. And all these senses, you say the Apostle may insinuate in this word. I think as soon all as one, but that the deep in one, and the same sentence should signify the grave, the bottom of the sea, and the whole state of the dead, is a flower of your field, it groweth in no wise man's garden.  

g Defenc. pag 154. li. 6.  I may not omit to show how you deal here again with the Text. You allege it, ●…e descended into the deep. But (he) is cunningly added, neither are these words meant of him.] 
The Defender cannot d●…scerne a con●…lusion from a quotation.  Your eyes be not pairs, that perceive not the difference betwixt a quotation and a conclusion gathered out of the Apostles words. In the 220 page, with which you cavil, the letter (b) pointing to Rom. 10. in the margin is set after he, and next before 
b Rom. 10.  descended to the deep. So that any sober man might soon see, I alleged not this word he, as out of the text, but inferred it as the true meaning of the Apostle. And whether I have better reason to say these words are meant of Christ, as all Interpreters new and old do, than you have to say, they are meant of a Phar●…aicall Merit-monger, that seeketh to learn of fishes in the deep of the sea, how to fulfil the Law; let the Reader judge, now he hath heard us both. 
h h Pag. 154. li. 13.  [The like pra●…se you v●… again in the Psalm. There is no word to expr●…sse (beneath) which you put into the text of your own head.] Were there no word importing so much, yet so long as the word added is expressly ratified by many places of Scripture, as appeareth Esay 14. vers. 9 and Proverbs 15. vers. 24. in plain words, that Sheol is beneath; and the addition is in another letter different from the rest before and after; your Mastership might have taken it for an explication inserted, and not for any part of the text cited. But you never suppose, that the Printer may sometimes mistake or mis-set my directions; and that maketh you so fast to foam at mouth with my falsifying the word of God of purpose and for advantage; where you rather lie of purpose or for advantage, since I do not offer there to build any thing on that word, nor so much as mention it in my collection there, which if I would have done, Scriptures enough besides this would warrant my assertion. And what if you whet your teeth against the truth, and the word there, of itself will bear this addition without any corruption, is not your time well spent, to play the Bedlom in this sort, and in the end to betray your own ignorance and malice? The Septuagint translate the word, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, if I descend, or go down to Sheôl, whom the Greek Fathers follow. The West Church kept the same word, as is evident by all the Latin Fathers. The Chaldaie paraphrase saith, Veêmuc lishjol, If I depress (or humble) myself down to Sheol, where the word is mac, to be depressed down or humbled low. jerom saith, If I lie down in Sheól. New Writers well skilled in the Hebrew tongue, as Pelican, Pomerane, and others continue the word of descending, and many that change it, retain the same sense: as Vatablus; 
i Vatabli an●…tationes in Psal. 139.  He●…raismus prosietiam descendam ad Ima, it is an Hebrew phrase importing thus much, If I do descend to the parts beneath. Westhmerus expoundeth it; 
k W●…sthmerus in Psal. 139.  Si descendam in infima loca terrae. If I descend to the lowest places of the earth. Mollerus: 
l Melle●…us ●…n Psal. 1●…9.  Si ettam descendam ad Ima. If I should descend to the places beneath. David Kimchi observeth, that this word is not only to spread, but withal it hath in it the force of 
m In S●…er hasharashim.  lematta, below, beneath. August●…us ●…stinianus translated the Arabic with the word of descending. If all these have falsified the word of God in so translating and expounding this place, then have I mistaken in following their judgements; but that I falsified of purpose or for an advantage, that is the meal of your mouth not unlike the rest of your grist. Howbeit, it is e●…ident the Hebrew word hath in it, as Kimchi noteth, the signification of sub & infra, and in that respect importeth a bed, where a man lieth down in a lower position than he had before. For which cause I might lawfully render the word as I did, If I lie down, or lodge (beneath) in sheól. Since Sheol by the Scriptures is a place whither a man must descend, though indeed to prevent all challenge, I was content to express the force of the word in another letter.  

n Defence pag. 154. li. 27.  Our second and most principal reason is this; If there be not one place of Scripture to prove that Christ's soul was in hell, than you ought to deny that opinion: but you have not indeed any one place that proveth it; therefore it ought to be denied.] You show your Log●…, where little need is, keep it, if you be wi●…e, till it may stand you in more steed. Every Child knoweth, or at least hath heard, that faith must depend on the word of God. Wherefore if it be no where written, we mean not to believe it. But if when the words be plain you will wrest them with figures and phrases to another purpose, then give us leave if your proofs be not sound and good, to tell you that our faith relieth on the singleness and plainness of the word of God, so received and believed since Christ had a Church on earth. And though you can make shows with divers acceptions, and figurative senses of words, yet that is no reason to reverse the truth written. For give me the like liberty without regard of faith and truth, and I can shift of any word whatsoever in the Scriptures, yea the chiefest and mainest grounds of Religion I can elude with different significations of the same word in other places of Scriptures. This therefore, if you take not heed, is a vain ostentation of phraseology, wherewith you think to make every thing of any thing with your figurative and phrasitive fancies.  

o Defenc. pag. 154. li. 31.  Against this argument you say you have one place, Acts 2. 27. even only one where you think it is plain, that Christ saith, God would not leave his soul in hell.] That we have, or say we have but one place to prove Christ's descent to hell, is a tale of your telling, who seldom speak truth; but that you shall never with all the wits and shifts you have, evert the vigour of this place, that I say, and you shall see by God's grace I will p●…orme it. But omit your Prefaces and go to your proofs, and then it will soon be seen where truth is.  

p Defenc. pag. 155. li. 4.  The Hebrew word controversed is Sheól, the Greek Hades. Now must the word Sheól and Hades needs signify hell, being applied to souls departed hence? so indeed you avouch more confidently then truly: and h●…reupon it seemeth you pawn the trial of this question.] You be so fine in your phrases, that you can not frame your lips to truth. I avouch indeed you can prove no such thing, and so I suppose it will fall out. But in neither of these two pages which you quote, do I pawn the question on that issue, and in the 312. by you cited in your margin, I speak not a word of Sheol or Hades; so well couched are your conceits, that you cite things neither written nor meant. 
q Pag. 155. li. 12.  We hope then when this proof (which you ask for against your opinion) is showed, you will correct your opinion in this point.] Your proofs I fear will be so wide from the purpose, that they will rather confirm, then convince mine assertion of Sheól; but never make so dainty to bring forth your choicest stuff, it will be some great onset, that you make so many offers to it, before you begin.  

r Defenc. pag. 155. li. 17.  Let it be considered which the Psalmist hath of this matter: What man liveth and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of Sheol? here now the soul attributed to every man living must be properly taken, as well as in the former place. Now than it is apparent, that here the souls of all men living, both good and bad (after death) are appointed to Sheol. For there is none that can possibly escape it, saith the text. Therefore in the Scripture sheôl and Hades applied to departed souls is not always hell, but the condition or place as well where the just men's souls are after death, as that where the damned are.] here is the Cannon that must craze the Creed, and beat down the walls of Christ's Church; but your devices do not deceive mine expectation. Set aside the words of the Psalmist, which you violently draw to fit your dreams; there is not one true nor likely word in all this reason. First you say, The soul attributed to every living man must be properly taken (you mean for his immortal spirit) as well as in the former place, where without question the soul of Christ, as after death, was severed from his body. This is a foolish and false position openly impugned by the Scriptures: for the soul attributed to every man living by the Scriptures importeth not only his life, which by death is dissolved and brought to Sheol, but also his senses, desires, and even corporal affections and passions. Of this can no man doubt, that ha●…h read any part of the Scriptures. The soul is there said to 
s Psal. 107.  hunger and 
t Prou. 25.  thirst, to 
u Psal. 78.  lust, to 
x Num 21.  loath meats, to 
y Luc. 12.  
y Matth. 6.  eat and drink, to 
z jerem. 13.  weep, to 
a Can●…. 5.  melt, to suffer all violence, to be 
b Deut. 19 & 27.  strooken or 
c jerem. 4.  
c Luc. 2.  pierced with the sword. These things are attributed to the souls of men living, by which not the substance of the soul, but the affections and passions of the body, that are common to us with beasts, are intended. Much more then, when the soul is said to have 
d Genes. 9  blood, to 
e job. 36.  die, or not to be delivered from the power of so●…ol, are these things applied to the life of men, which are most false of their souls once severed from their bodies. So that no man is able to deliver his soul from the hand of Sheol, but he must see death, as the words next before do import; but that Sheol after death shall possess the souls of all men, there is no such thing in the Prophet's words by you produced. The hand or power of Sheol, which endeth this life, sundreth the soul from the body, that power of Sheol shall no man escape, because it is appointed for all to die, or as it is in your allegation, to see death: but what becometh of their souls after death, whether they be in Sheol or in Paradise, this place expresseth not. And therefore your interlacing those words (after death) of your own authority besides the text, showeth that you affirm so much, but the Psalmist saith no such thing. And because the Reader shall plainly see, how lamely and loosely you conclude, and clean contrary to the direct words of the holy Ghost even in the Psalms, he shall hear the words of David himself, whether his soul after death should be subjecteth to the power of Sheol or no. Speaking of the foolish, he saith; 
f Psal. 48.  Like sheep they lie in Sheôl, death devoureth them: but God will deliver my soul from the hand (or power) of sheol: for he will receive me. Where first is a manifest contradiction to your main collection out of the former place, that 
* Pag. 155. li. 29.  the souls of all men good & bad (after death) are appointed to Sh●…l. Secondly here is a full confirmatition of mine assertion; that whose souls God receiveth, they are not in Sheól. But God receiveth the souls of his Saints: their souls therefore are not in Sheól.  
Neither is this confession to be found in the Psalms alone, Solomon avoucheth the same. 
g Prou. 23.  Thou shalt smite (thy child) with the rod, and shald deliver his soul from Sheol. Then are not the souls of all men in Sheol after death, since the soul of a child well nurtered and in time chastened shallbe delivered from Sheol. And so shall the souls of all men, that after death live with God. 
h Prou. 15.  The way of life is on high for him that understandeth to d●…line from Sheol below. Life is on high, Sheol is below; the Saints then whose souls live with God, are freed from Sheol which is below. To be in both places at once, is impossible for one and the same part of man. Then such as you grant are in any part of heaven, can by no means remain in Sheol. But the souls of the righteous are in a blessed rest with God, and as Christ promised the thief, that was crucified with him at least in Paradise. They be therefore not in Sheol. And as for the mirth, that you make with me and Saint Augustine, that 
i Pag. 156. li. 9  O then this point of faith is grounded on Austin, it is his collection, (not the text without him) that serves your turn; you and your friends will never be able to overmatch Saint Augustine's observation, that he never found in any place of Scripture Inferi (which is the word that is used in Latin for sheol) to be taken in any good sense and much less to make good proof by the word of God, that the condition or place, in which the souls of the Saints are after death, is called sheol or hades, since as I have sufficiently showed, Sheol is opposite to heaven, and to every part thereof, as the lowest and worst place of abode to the highest and best, which things if you can glue together you shall quit yourself to be your crafts master.  

k Defenc. pag. 156. li. 22.  But first you must note, that we go not about to prove sheol or hades to be heaven. We never thought it, the more is your injury, when you have nothing to reproou●…, yet with bitter reproaches to disgrace me as you do, and that even for this your own mere conceit.] What time of the day is it, I pray you Sir, that you awake so lately out of your deep and drowsy maze, or sleep (choose which you will) that you now begin in sadness to disclaim, that you ever said or meant Sheol was or could be heaven, or any part thereof? Is it so many months agone, that positively and publicly you affirmed 
l Defenc. pag. 155. li. ●…4.  Sheol and Hades in the Scriptures to BE THE PLACE, where the just men's souls are after death? Were the sections of your book framed so far a sunder, and so very strangers each to other, that you forget it was a resolute position of yours, or of some of your friends for you even in the very last section, and but in the other side of the leaf that THE CONDITION OR PLACE, WHERE JUST men's SOULS ARE AFTER DEATH, was SHEOL and HADES? and that which argueth your notable stupidity or folly, rejecting so violently the invention of Limbus, which supposed the souls of the righteous deceased before Christ to be in Sheol and Hades, as well as the souls of the damned, you now come to tell us that Sheòl and Hades 
m Ibid. li. 35.  is the place as well where the just men's souls are after death, as that where the damned are. You talk of witty reasons to solace yourself withal, if you could tell how; in truth this stuff better deserveth to be tawed with terms, then to be refuted with reason, since it hath neither ground nor proof nor so much as concordance with itself.  

n Defenc. pag. 156. li. 28.  Consider a word of like use in Latin. Defuncti signifying the dead, may be applied generally to the souls deceased. Yet I hope notwithstanding Limbus may be easily avoided. Are defuncti none other but the damned only in hell? 
o li. 38.  the word is properly general signifying them that are gone hence, certainly so doth hades and sheol. All these (the Latin, the Gre●… and the Hebrew) words are indifferent and common in themselves signifying indeed no positive thing properly, but a mere privation of this life.] You shall do well to consider, that you know not what you say, but as a man out of truth and tune you fall from one absurdity to another, and trole out positions, that are mere privations of all sense and understanding: that such words, as only note the privation of this life, or leaving this world, are common to all deceased and departed hence, this Children know: We strive not for that: and so defuncti importing such as have ended the course of this life, and are gone from hence, may serve as well for those that are with Christ in rest and bliss, as for the rest that are in the pains and torments of hell: but what is this to Sheol or hades, or to the place where the one, or the other are? Is the PLACE, where souls departing hence are received, no POSITIVE THING with you, but a MERE PRIVATION? who ever said so, that was not merely deprived of his wits? the places where souls after this life are disposed, are Paradise or as you say heaven, and hell. Are heaven and hell, and the states of souls there, no positive things, but mere privations of this life? if this be the best way you have to a●…oid Limbus, in faith my reason will soon convince you to want more than wit. You speak not of places, you will say, but of conditions. If you did so, your error were gro●…e enough, but by your leave, look on your own words, you speak of the 
p Pag. 155. li. 34.  PLACE WHERE JUST men's SOULS ARE AFTER DEATH, as well as of the condition; and would you now shift your hands of both, and say you meant a mere privation of this life? you would feign convey yourself to your old castle of comfort, which are empty words and phrases best fitting your wrangling humour; but we must pray you to convince the Creed, and expound the Scriptures with more than mere privations, and idle observations, or else to let them stand in their former truth and strength. Who knoweth not, that such as have ended this life may be called defuncti or mortui the deceased or dead, in that their bodies lie now in corruption, though their souls be in peace and rest with God? but what is that to the place or state in which they are after death, which the Scripture maketh to be positive, though such a phrase-founder as you are, would have it nothing else but privative? Of Enoch and Elias, who were translated hence with their bodies living, it cannot be said, they are dead, because no part of them was or is subjecteth to death, and yet are they gone from hence to a more blessed and happy life. But Sheol in the Scriptures, as we have se●…e by the common and constant consent of jewish and Christian Grammarians and expositors, is a place under earth opposed to heaven, as the lowest to the highest, a●…d the word of God doth exactly confirm that assertion of theirs. 
q Deut. 1●….  Moses, 
q job. ●…1.  job, 
q Psal. ●…5.  Dani●…, 
q P●…ou. 15.  and 
q 〈◊〉 14.  Esay teach, that Sheol is q below. Now above and beneath are positions of places, and not differences of privations. And so likewise Io●…, David, Esaie, and A●…, use Sheol or the place mo●… opposite to 
r 〈◊〉. ●…9.  
r 〈◊〉 ●…9.  
r 〈◊〉 14.  
r Amos 9  heaven. Now if heaven be a po●… place and state, so is Sheol, though either of them import a privation of this earthly life; God's ordinance being such, that this life shall end or change, ●…efore men go to heaven or hell. It is then a weak and waterish collection, that because both the grave and hell, which in the Scriptures are comprised in the name of Sheol, have in them the privation of this life, therefore Sheol properly noteth a me●…re privation of this life, and nothing else, unless you nourish this secret error in your bosom, that the soul's deceased sleep, and so have neither positive nor sensible joy or pain, but a mere want of this world.  

s Defenc. pag. 157. li. 6.  In effect they are all one with Thanatos death, but that Thanatos belongeth properly to bodies, Hades and sheol sometimes to bodies, sometimes to souls of men indifferently.] You may as well assume unto yourself to make new Lexicons, as new Creeds. Life and death being opposites, the force of death is properly the privation of l●…e. Howbeit, the continuance and necessary consequents of death are usually comprised in this name: that sheol and hades are likewise nothing properly but the m●…e p●…tion of this life, this is your new made signification of these words, warranted by yourself against the main resolution of all sorts of writers, Hebrew, Gr●…ke and Latin; and even against the Scriptures themselves. For if sheol be nothing but a mere privation of this life, how doth the Scripture avouch of Core, Dathan, and their company, that the earth opening her mouth, 
t Numb. 16.  They descended alive to Sh●…l? How doth S. john make Hades consequent after Thanatos, and say Hades followed after him? after a mere privation of this life can you devise a second privation th●…of to follow the first? you take it to be for your credit to cross the whole world with words; but you may do well to spare the holy Ghost for fear of a●…rclaps. And whence cometh this new skill, that Thanatos belongeth properly to bodies? hath not the soul of man a life of grace and bliss, which is the life of God, or will you call that improperly life? Then the Angels have properly no life, and God himself, who is all life and that most properly, shall by your learning improperly live. If the soul have truly and properly her life, than the privation thereof, as in all the wicked, is truly and properly death. I mean not want of sense, which she can not lack, but lo●… of grace, by which she liveth. And were your false position true, that only the body did live, and on●…ly might die, and there were no death of the soul; the state of a dead body doth it contain nothing positive? what is corruption and dust, to which the body must return; are they merely privative? And as for the souls of the righteous, which you say are in Hades Sh●…ol and death; forget you what our Saviour teacheth, God is ●…ot the God of the dead, but of the living? that is, they are not properly dead, that live with God.  

u Defenc. pag. 157 li. 22.  In the 49. Psalm, where all express circumstances do show that the Prophet speaketh of this death, not of hell, yet David here saith; Notwithstanding God shall deliver my soul from the power of sheôl, (that is death or the state of death) when he shall receive me most mightily. So Tremelius turneth it noting here David's hope of the resurrection, which I think he hath well understood in this place.] You promised to 
x Ibid. li. 13.  show even by the Scriptures, that Sheol and Hades are more than once used for the general condition of death, wherein even just men's souls are held, or the mansion of souls departed as well good as bad; and now you turn us over to Tremelius translation, as if every word that Tremelius said, were Scripture, whosoever saith nay. But first you falsify Tremelius translation, for he doth not turn Sheol there, by death or the state of death▪ as you set it down, but he translateth Sheol in the 15. verse by Infernus, hell, and in the 16. which you cite, by sepulchrum the grave. And by his general observation overthroweth your idle speculation of Sheol to be merely and properly privative. His words are. 
y Scholi●… Trem●…lij in Psal. 49. vers. 15. num●… 22.  Vox Hebraica (Sheol) stationem quamlibet mortuorum in universum notat, ideoque modo ad sepulchrum, modo ad Infernum Synecdochicè, modo ad utramque simul accommodanda est. The Hebrew word (Sheol) noteth in general every station (not state) of the dead, (that is of so much as is dead in men) and therefore it must be applied sometimes to the grave, sometimes to hell, by Synecdoche (as to parts thereof) and sometimes to both jointly. Then Sheôl properly hath nothing to do with the general state of the dead common to good and bad, but Sheol is every station or place under earth, as the grave and hell, where any part of man subjecteth to death is received. If this be Tremelius meaning, as his words import none other, than he agreeth with the rest of the jews and Christian Hebraicians, who avouch the same: otherwise he is deceived, as Mercere plainly proveth against him, and you, and all that be so minded, 
z Mercerus in 42. ca, Genes.  Errant qui Sheôl propriè locum animarum tam bonorum quam malorum esse putant, cum Sheol propriè sit LOCUS SUBTERRANEUS generaliter, (&) general●…us quam Sepulchrum. THEY ERR, that think Sheol properly to be the place of souls as well good as bad, since Sheol properly is any place under the earth in general, and more general than the grave. This he confirmeth by the witness of Aben Ezra upon the 37. of Genesis, that 
a Mercerus in 37. ca Gen. ex Aben Ezra in ●…undem loc●…m.  the proper and right signification of Sheôl is to signify all places under earth, and not the pit or grave alone; Whereupon it is every where opposed to heaven, which is the highest of all. Tremelius therefore maketh nothing for your conceit of Sheôl; and if he did, you are both deceived, as I have formerly showed by the testimonies of many Rabbins and learned Christians, whose judgements overswaie Tremelius, since neither he nor you have any just proof against them, but your own wresting the Scripture to your private purposes. Howbeit I see no such thing in Tremelius as you pretend, and therefore do not charge him with any such fault.  
For your own collection, if you join it with Tremelius translation, you hatch as gross an error touching the souls of just men after this life, as hath been heard of amongst Christians. For if the souls of the godly shall not be delivered from Sheol; or, as Tremelius translateth it, from the grave till the resurrection; and as you observe, the soul must here be taken properly, that is, for the immortal spirit which is in man; and is therefore in Sheol, because it shall not be delivered thence till the resurrection; then are the spirits of all just men deceased, as yet in their graves under earth, and there shall remain till their bodies rise, which is fit doctrine for such a divine as you are. You might as well conclude out of Tremelius words, that all the just are damned in hell, till the resurrection. For he thus expoundeth David's meaning, Christ is my deliverer, à corruption sepulchri, & inferni damna●…one, from the corruption of the g●…e, and damnation of hell. And so by your logic, in the mean time the souls of the just are subjecteth to both. To labour much to reconcile wrested expositions of this or that w●…ter, I have no leisure; yet Tremelius may mean, that the souls of the just are not yet wholly freed from the power of the grave, not that they are in the grave, as you absurdly and falsely conceive and conclude, but that their bodies lie yet in the grave, which is an impediment to the perfection of their celestial glory. Otherwise against you, and all that out of this place surmise, that just men's souls shall not be delivered out of Sheol till the resurrection, the sense and words of David in this are pregnant enough. For David putting a difference in th●…se two verses betwixt himself and the wicked, and that with an adversative conjunction; since the souls of the wicked are in Sheol presently upon their deaths, if David's must be there also, what distinction do his words make between himself and those others, of whom he spoke before? Again he saith, God will deliver his soul from Sheol, ki, cúm or quia, when he shall receive me, or because he will receive me. Take which you will, it is plain by the Scriptures, and by these very words of David, that so soon●… as God receiveth the soul of man, it is delivered from Sheol. But he receiveth the souls of his Saints instantly upon their deaths; they are therefore presently delivered out of Sheol, and stay not there by any force of David's words until the resurrection. Lord jesus, said Steven even as he was stoned, 
b Acts 7.  receive my spirit. 
c Luke 16.  The beggar died, saith the Gospel, and was carried by the Angels into Abraham's bosom. 
d Luke 23.  This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise, said Christ to the thief. 
e john 5.  He that believeth in him, that sent me, saith Christ, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is already passed from death to life. If the faithful pass so soon to life, they be as soon delivered from Sheol by David's own confession, against which I will hear neither you, nor any man living.  

f Defence pag. 157. li. 34.  Again that Psalm showeth it also, where it is thus written, My soul is filled with sorrows, and my li●…e draweth near to Sheol: by his life he meaneth his soul, the proper cause and fountain of life in him, which also in ●…e first part of the sentence he nameth. By these roving and licentious glozes builded on the sands of your own saying, you think you may prove what you will, and all shall be express Scripture, if you say the word. Life you will have to be soul, drawing near to be abiding in, The grave to be the general condition of souls deceased: and to warrant all this yourself is the soothsayer. 
g li. 36.  By his life he meaneth his soul, which also in the first part of the sentence he nameth as the manner of phrase in the Psalm is, in the second part to speak of the same things that are in the former.] Many verses in the Psalms do illustrate the self same general with divers parts, adjuncts, and consequents; but that the words be of all one force or signification in every such verse, this is an other of your new found methods, which is nothing else but a mere confusion of all things. For will you see with your manner of phrase, as you fin●…ly furbish it, what consequents hang on these kind of collections. This life, of which David speaketh, continueth not in Sheol, because it is utterly extinguished by Sheol: ergo the soul likewise is mortal, and wholly perisheth in Sheol; for so doth the life mentioned by David, which you say is all one with the soul. Again if both these parts import one sense, than the just in Sheol are filled with sorrows; for so are the former words of David. And if that be true, how much hath the spirit of God deceived us, who bad S. john write, 
h revel. 14.  blessed are the dead, which hereafter die in the Lord: even so saith the spirit: for they rest from their labours. But that was the spirit of truth; and therefore the spirit of error in you sucketh these absurdities out of the Psalms by your misconstruction of them.  

i Defenc. pag. 15●…. li. 4.  Indeed I deny not but life may signify here the whole person of man, and so may nephesh the soul also very well: and then Sheol and Hades signify not peculiarly and distinctly the grave, which is only for the car casse, but the condition of the whole man after he hath no being in this world. And per adventure so it is understood here in th●…se places, in which sense Sheol and Hades are far from signifying hell, yea or heaven either, yea or only and merely the grave: but it signifieth destruction out of this world, and not being here any more as aforetime to the whole person, that is both to the body and to the soul.] The idle devices of this wild-gooseracer who would spend either time or pains to track, when he reeleth to and fro, like a man pot-shotten, with it may be, and per adventure it is so; and closeth up all in the end with a dangerous destruction, which he maketh to be just nothing. Boys meanly Catechised can soon conceive, that death or the grave bringeth with it an end of all earthly things, from which the wicked are loath to depart, as having no farther nor better hope after this life; and therefore to them death is a destruction indeed, that is a ceasing of all their pleasures, and an increasing of all their pains. To 
Sheol is no destruction to the godly.  the godly, who put not their hearts to the things of this world, but desire to be dissolved and to be with Christ, and in comparison of his presence account all earthly things to be base, and burdenous, death is a gain, and no destruction; because they renounced the love of all these worldly things before hand, and sought for the permanent city, whose founder is God. Wherefore to them this body is a burden, this life is a warfare, and this world is a desert, full of snares and pits; Wherein they wander as pilgrims and strangers. If then to lay aside these troubles and trifles, and to be freed from all labours and dangers, and to come home to the countrcy and city which God hath provided for the faithful, be in any wise man's sense a destruction, then have you some reason to call the general condition of death, as well to the just as to the wicked, a destruction: but if that thought and speech be void of all religion and reason, then do you hover in the midst between heaven and hell, and huddle salvation and damnation in one general condition or state, as you call it, and when you sce what inconvenience will follow thereof, you make it nothing but a mere privation, or an end of things past. And this you would apply as well to the person of Christ, whose soul you say was in no Sheol but this; & as to all his members, whose souls shall not be freed from this destruction and Sheol till the day of resurrection. Did you speak of the nature of death in itself, or as it taketh hold on the wicked, I would allow the word destruction; which if it be well understood, is more than a m●…re privation: but when you presume to pervert the Scriptures with peradventures, and to sow to them what sense you list, as may best fit your monstrous fancies; l●…t no man be offended, if I often think it fit to reject your conceits with rounder words, then to any learned or sober writer I would willingly give.  
That the grave then, by which death is meant, hath in it or bringeth with it a lack 
What Sheol is to the wicked, and what to the godly.  or loss of all earthly things, and that common to good and bad; this, as it is not denied, so is it no special signification of Sheol, as you out of your new found notes observe; but the general consequent of Sheol or the grave in all men just or wicked, as also corruption & returning to dust is, from whence they were taken. To the wicked, that wed their souls to these earthly vanities, and neglect God & his promises, the Prophets often threaten Sheol, that is the place and state, where all these things shall want or perish to them; but with the sheol of their bodies, which is the grave, is joined the sheol of their souls, which is hell, though they not regarding or not believing the later, are most often threatened with the former, which they every day saw before their eyes, & so was like●…st to move them most. To the godly the remembrance of Sh●…ol was sometimes grievous either because it was joined with an untimely death to themselves, or with the dishonour of God's name, or with the danger of his Church, or signification of his dislike of their lives and courses; which circumstances have often troubled the Saints at the sight or foreshow of death. These things you stamp and strain with your distempered and unlearned fancies, and then you produce a mere privation, which you call a destruction of the whole man in Sheol. Now what if job called the grave, 
k job 30.  an house appointed for every man living; or said the 
l job 17.  grave must be an habitation to him, as well as to others; doth he mean that the whole man, body and soul, shall dwell in the grave; or ●…ome to corruption as is presently added? 
m job. 17.  I shall say to corruption, thou art my Father, & to the worm, Thou art my mother & my sister? Are you so good a Carpenter, that with a mere privation you can make an habitation, and to furnish your house bring souls from heaven, or the whole man to dwell with corruption and worms?  
A silly reason like the rest you interpose, 
n Defenc. pag. 158. li. 28.  That seeing job speaketh of Sh●…ol as his continual habitation to the worlds end, it can not be went only of the grave for his body, which endured but a very short time, and had no being at all after it was turned to very 
How the gra●… is an habitation to the godly  earth and worms.] Much less may it be meant of his soul, that turneth neither to earth nor worms; and least of all of his whole person, since in the whole every part is contained, & if it be true of neither part, how can it be verified of the whole? but such is your folly, that with your idle fancies you call the main grounds of Christian faith in question, and offer doubt how God can raise his Saints out of their graves, when as their bodies being long before turned to earth and ashes have no being at all. Sir if you speak in earnest, these be wicked quarrels, and show that you would feign shake heaven and earth to uphold your new found Sheol. Otherwise all the godly know, that God hath their ashes in sight before him, and will not mistake one earth for another, though their dust were scattered over all the world. And so long as he that will raise them by his mighty power, hath in so certain number and measure the whole and every the least dust, that came of their bodies, they lie in their graves till the time of resurrection, and their maker will not miss an hair of their head, nor a mote of their ashes; which if it be strange to you, dispute against him that created heaven and earth of nothing, and not against me, that believe the resurrection of men's bodies and flesh many thousand years after they be turned to dust, and as you wickedly surmise, have no being at all after they are turned to earth and worms.  

o Defenc. pag. ●…8. 〈◊〉. 33.  In greatest reason this is that which jacob meaneth when he saith, he will go down mourning to his Son in Sheol. His body he thought was devoured and digested in the bel●…es of wild beasts. Therefore he will go to the soul of his son in sheól to enjoy the society of his dear So●…e.] It is no marvel you be so stiffnecked in rules of Discipline, when you ●…e thus ●…ad-headed in points of doctrine. I pray you Sir where did jacob thin●… that ●…osephs soul was after death, or that his own should be? in hell? in Abraham's boso●…? or in some place lately devised by yourself to contain just men's souls? Or are souls by your Divinity without all place, that the father might enjoy the socie●…e of his dear sons soul, and yet in no place? you may do well to declare us these doubts, for I assure you, unless you plead dottage, these discourses will amount to plain impiety. In hell there is no great enjoying one of an other, I trow. In heaven you mean it not, for than you must confess heaven to be Sheól, which you say you never thought. In the grave I hope souls do not lodge: then must you find us a place, whither jacob would descend to enjoy the society of his dear sons soul. Will you call it a mere privation and destruction, which are the graffs that you have newly planted? you must first tell us what joy there is in privation and destruction. Next whether this privation and destruction be any where, and so in some place; or no where, and so a right creature of yours, as being a privation of all wit and truth. Thirdly if joseph's soul were neither in joy nor rest, what comfort jacob could take to find his dear sons soul in such a plight. And lastly whether the Patr●…arks had no promises of rest and receipt with God after this life, but that they were to seek for the souls of their parents and children in your privative Sheol which is neither hell, heaven, nor Abraham's bosom. For if it be one of these, then is it not only positive, but also local, that is somewhere, and hath a state and condition agreeable to the mercies of God, and the desire of the Saints. But why pursue I your follies so far, as if they were not peevish pangs of your unsettled brains? Jacob's words without your jests are plain enough to each good Christian; in saying he would go mourning to she●…l, that is, to his grave, assuring himself after death to have his soul received into that place of rest, into which he did not doubt but the soul of his innocent child was formerly admitted by the goodness of his God. And if any man like Rabbi Selomoes' exposition, that êl in this place may signify, over or for, as it often doth; then Jacob's words are more easy, that he will descend to Sheol mourning for his son. Howbeit jacob knew well enough, that joseph's body though deuour●…d and digested in the bodies of wild beasts must return to earth, as to the place by the tenor and truth of God's judgement appointed for all men; 
p Genes. 3.  Thou art dust and to d●…st shalt thou return (that is) to the earth out of which thou wast taken, and to which jacob would descend mourning all the days of his life for the loss of his son, not meaning in Sheol to have joy with the soul of his son; as you pervert his speech and sense; for than he would have gone to Sheol not mourning, but rejoicing.  

p Defenc. pag. 159. li. 15.  Again to follow our purpose: good Ezechiah also looked for Sheol to be his habitation likewise after this life. 
q li. 26.  This cannot be understood of his carcase, rotting and wasting away to nothing in the grave and therefore endureth not as the word (Dori my m●…nsion) signifieth. Therefore he meaneth it of his souls abiding else where. 
r li. 35.  Again Ezechiah was a godly man; therefore hell was not fit for him; and he seemeth to insinuate that in the Land of the dead he might see (the Lord) whither he was to go: and that must needs be in the place of blessed souls, even that which here is noted by the word Sh●…l.] You stumble still at the same stone, that none of those things can be meant of the grave, because the body rotteth and wasteth to nothing in the grave. You must leave these falsehoods, if you will but seem to be a Divine. The bodies of the Saints can not be raised from their graves, if they be wasted wholly to nothing in their graves. And if you follow this argument well, whatsoever your name be, that by this means undermine the resurrection of the dead, your words will broach an open heresy, though you slily urge them to establish your new found Sheol. Wherefore I omit this desperate cavil as fight rather against the faith, then against the name of Sheol, wherein men's bodies after death, though turned to dust, yet not to nothing, do still remain. Your next reason that the grave can not be called Dôr an habitation or a continuance, is idle and utterly mistaken by you, as all the rest is. For Dôr is the time of man's life here on earth, as well as a place of abode. And what should hinder Ezechiah to say, the time of my life is ended, or the place of mine abode here on earth is removed or passed away? Must it needs follow, that he shall have a time to live in Sheol, or a place for his soul to abide there, as you absurdly urge; or that this habitation may not be said to be in the grave, where his body lieth known to God, though unknown to man? These be miserable shifts to hale in your privative, positive, general, special, station, state, place without place, of your first found Sheôl. For where before you avouched that Sheol signified indeed 
t Pag. 157. li. 2.  no positive thing properly, but a mere privation of this life, you be now come upon confidence of these rather riots than reasons, to resolve in plain terms, that the place of blessed souls, where they see God, is 
u Pag. 160. li. 2.  even that which here is noted by the word Sheol. The place of blessed souls, where God is seen, I hope is first special to the godly; not general to good and bad. Next it is positive, and not merely privative. Thirdly it is peculiar to the souls of just men, not imparted as yet to their whole persons. Fourthly it is not destruction, it is salvation. And lastly it is heaven, or Paradise a part of the third heaven, which you never thought to be Sheol. These many contrarieties you have contrived in less than two leaves, having none other ground for all this, but only that the dead bodies of men turned to ashes, and wasted to nothing, as you defend, can not be said to be any where, and so not in Sheol; and since there is somewhat of just men in Sheol, as the Scriptures witness, it must needs be the soul; and this erroneous and perfidious position, that the body of man hath no being at all after it is turned to dust, is the sole foundation of your late made Sheol for just men's souls.  

x Defenc. pag. 160. li. 3.  It is a most vain reason, that you give that Sheol here is taken for hell, because death to the wicked is the passage to hell, which death Ezechiah was not near unto.] I doubt not but you willbe as bold with me, as you are with others, to corrupt or pervert every word you light on, so you may seem to say somewhat. My words were, that death in his own nature was a passage to hell, as we find yet by proof in all the wicked, though the faithful be freed from it by the mercies of God in Christ. And therefore Ezechiah in the bitterness of his soul might well call death the gates of hell, even as our Saviour said, The gates of hell should not prevail against (his Church) though they should pursue it on earth, calling sin, error, and persecution the gates of hell, albeit in the godly they work not so much, but in the wicked only. And in death denounced by Esaie to Ezechiah, the king did not so much fear the passage out of this life as the sudden change of God's favour towards him, who not long before with a mighty hand from heaven, and by a miraculous slaughter of his enemies, saved him and his city from the rage of Senacherib, and on the sudden 
y Esa. 38.  about that very time, as the Scripture noteth, strake him with sickness, and sent him word to put his house in order, for he should die. which message the king feared was a sign of God's displeasure against him, as judging him unworthy to enjoy so great a deliverance. And this might make Ezechiah, otherwise a good king, to tremble at that, which in God's secret counsel he was not near unto, though in the fear and g●…iefe of his own hart, he might feel in some fort the bitterness of death in that short pang.  

z Defence pag 160. li. 12.  Another objection of yours is as weak, where you say; Sheol here must be the grave, because it is said afterward, sheol doth not confess thee, death cannot praise thee: for it is evident that Ezechiah meaneth not absolut●…ly, there is no praising of God in sh●…l, but only be understandeth the outward frequenting of the Temple, and publishing of God's goodness to others. If you can shift of one circumstance, or make a show with some ambiguity, you think yourself safe; neither care nor conscience leadeth you to look to the rest, that is written either in the same or in other places of the sacred Scriptures. This comparison made betwixt the living and the dead, that the living confesle and praise God, which the dead cannot do, belongeth in the living to the whole man, that is, chiefly to the soul, the maker and director of our prayers, but associated with the body, whose parts and affections she guideth and composeth, even as she doth the tongue to serve so good an action. In the dead this joint devotion of body and soul, with heart and voice, ceaseth by reason the body severed from the soul by dea●…h c●…n not concur with the soul in any speech, action, or affection whatsoever. So ●…uch then, as is dead in the just, is utterly made unprofitable by death to perform any such duty to God. For that which is dead, is deprived as of life, so of all sense and moti●…n answerable to that life, which is lost. But an utter want of praising God is in sh●…l, as Ezechiah declared, the place therefore where the souls of the just deceased are, is not Sheol by the scriptures, since they do not cease to confess and praise God. In Sheol, you say, there is no such praising of God as on earth.] In Sheol, I say, there is no praising of God at all. Now let us see, to which of these two the Scriptures accord. You thought with a wrench, as your manner is, to decline the force of truth, and make way to your fancy, but the Scriptures hold you faster than so. In the very same verse the next words are 
a Esa. 38. v. 13.  They that go down to the pit, cannot hope (on, in, or) for thy truth. Whosoever confesseth or praiseth God, must hope in the truth of God. They can therefore no way confesle or praise God. Now the souls of the just no question confess and praise God. They are not therefore in the pit, which the Scriptures call Sheol. And so much you might plainly have perceived by the words of Solomon, if truth had been in greater request with you, than your own devices. 
b Ecclesi●…stes 9 vers. 5 &  The living saith Solomon, know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing at all. 
c 〈◊〉.  There is neither knowledge, n●…r wisdom in Sheol, whither thou goest. And of David likewise, 
d Psal. ●…8.  Shall thy wondrous works be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of oblivion? If the souls of the just and blessed be in that place, which the Scripture calleth hSeol, as you stiffly maintain, then have they no wisdom, knowledge, nor memory at all, no not of God's righteousness and truth. But that were to prop up error with open heresy, and as before you gave a good push to deny the Resurrection of the flesh, by saying their bodies wasted to dust had no being at all, so by this you fairly abolish the immortality of the soul, and by consequent l●…e everlasting. For if the body be nothing after it returneth to dust, and the soul after this life remaining in Sheol (as you say) can have neither wisdom, nor knowledge, nor memory of God's righteousness and truth, as the Scriptures say, you must hold a new creation of other bodies and other souls, before either souls or bodies can be partakers of life everlasting.  
This is your world of souls, for which you make so much work, and whither you strive to bring the soul of Christ, defending that his soul was in your Sheol, where the Scripture saith is neither wisdom, knowledge, nor memory. And so handsomely you have set up the sides of your Sheol, that by your Resolution it is 
e Pag. 157. li. 2.  indeed no positive, thing properly, but a mere privation of this life: 
f Pag. 155. li. 34.  and yet it is the condition or place as well where the just men's souls are after death, as that where the da●…ned are: And lastly, 
g Pag 159. li 38.  it is the land of the dead, where they see him (even the Lord) which must needs be the place of blessed souls: These many variations you have made us, and all these be properly Sheol in the Scriptures, and yet Sheol is neither hell nor heaven, but somewhere, no where, if you could tell what to make of it. And the proof of all this is as precious, as the place itself. For since the just go to Sheol as well as the wicked, and there remain till the resurrection, the bodies of the Saints 
h Pag. 159. li. 27.  waste away to nothing in the grave, 
i Pag. 158. li. 30.  neither have any being at all, & consequently their souls must have their 
k Pag. 159. li.  habitation, mansion, and abode in Sheol, which is in the land of the dead (souls,) where they see God, and yet this condition and place common to them with the wicked, who can neither see God, nor have any bleslednesse. Much to blame shall I be, if I correct not mine opinion upon such pregnancies as these be.  
The figurative senses of Sheôl, as when men living think, or complain, they are in Sheôl, or other things besides man are said to go to Sheôl, I purposely let pass, the corruption of all earthly things returning to dust for the sin of man, as man doth. And the fear and force of destruction pursuing man in this life, if he seek not to God for help, are figurative significations of Sheôl in the Scriptures, but derived by resemblance from the proper significations thereof, as likewise the consoquents depending on the higher Sheôl appointed for the bodies, or on the lower prepared for the souls, that are dead, are sometimes intended by that word, and comprised in it, as adherents and accessories unto it: These I say I omit, because we reason here of the proper signification of Sheôl, which con●…th places under earth provided for sinners, to which the bodies deprived of life, and souls forsaken of grace, descend as to the mansions assigned them by the just judgement of God for ever. That the souls of the Righteous are in Sheôl till the Resurrection, the more you labour to confirm, the less cause I find to believe, since you therein w●…der most unwisely not only with mere vn●…tainties, and many contrarities, but even to open and most desperate falsehoods.  

l Defenc. pag. 161. li 3.  To the very same purpose the Se●…gint use Hades. For it is well and truly acknowledged by you, that both Sheol and Hades are just all one.] I never doubted but Hades in Greek was used by the Septuagint to express Sheol in Hebrew, and with them did note as well the grave, where the bodies of men lie silent and dead, as the place of punishment, whither the souls of the wicked descend: but in the new Testament where our Saviour often and openly revealed the place and pains of the damned, there the Evangelists and Apostles distinguishing the death of the body from the destruction of the soul, and counting the one to be but a sleep to the godly; They separate Hades from Thanatos, and use them diversly, referring hades to signify the place of torment, whither the wicked are condemned, which is hell, and expressing by Thanatos the dissolution of soul and body, save when they speak of the death of the soul, either on earth, which is the loss of all grace, or in hell which is an exclusion from all glo●…ie, and a subjection to perpetual and intolerable misery; in which case they do not forbear the word Thanatos, death. The Greek fathers exactly follow this signification of hades for hell, which they learned from the Evangelists and Apostles. Your fitting of David's phrases to your own devices is a dangerous and deceitful course. For you make what you will of his words, and then conclude your own conceits out of them. Wherein if any man ask for proofs, your friends must reply with Pythagoras Scholars, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he said the word. And you so entangle yourself with terms, that you do not see your own positions contradicted & confuted by your own allegations. For where before you were peremptory that Sheol was properly a mere privation of this life; now by misconstruing some speeches in the Scriptures you will have life not only to be in hades, which you make all one with Sheol and death, but there to continue and abide. And when against your own positions, and against the grounds of all reason, you have vouched life to be in hades which you say is death, than you turn round and would infer, that since life cannot be in death, life there must be the soul, and so the soul must be in hades. And thus you dance the Morrisco, that life is in hades, and life is not in hades, not knowing or not caring what you say, so you may still step forward, though it be over the shoes.  
The words of David, My life drew near to Sheol, my soul had almost dwelled in silence, 
m Psal. 88  as likewise of E●…hu in the book of job, speaking of one that is visited with sickness by the hand of God, and in great danger of death, so that 
n job. 33.  his soul drew near to corruption, and his life to the s●…ers, are not spoken of dead men that are in hades, as you misconceive, but of men yet living, and having both soul and body united together. And this phrase of drawing near to Sheol or Hades, and almost dwelling there, noteth only the danger of death approaching, and ready to make an end of life, by severing the soul from the body. Neither are these the words of the Septuagint, his life (is) in Hades, (this in me you would call a falsification of the text,) since the verb precedent 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, his life drew near; must be repeated, and not the verb (is) added at your pleasure. And where the speech in Greek his life (drew near) in Hades, is somewhat defective, it must be supplied, as the former verb requireth, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and his life (drew near to those) in Hades, and not with a new verb of your devising; specially since the Hebrew keepeth lamed prefixed before both the words, corruption and slayers which noteth a motion towards either, not a being in either. And yet if the Septuagint did serve from the original sense, as by this supply they do not; their authority is not sufficient to establish any point of doctrine not delivered in the Authentic words of the holy Ghost. They were Jews living in very corrupt times, and ignorant of the true mysteries of Christ, to which all faith must be proportioned; and therefore their words being not canonical must be leveled by the text, which they translate, or else refused as unsound. The phrase of dwelling, in things that be contrary each to other, and so extinguish each the other, is as much as to be utterly oppressed without recovery: though the soul may also be said to dwell in silence (which is the word that David useth) when it is parted from the body, and hath neither action, motion, nor speech, but in silent and secret manner; where as by her body she performeth all these things even sensibly to the eyes and ●…ares of others.  

o Defenc. pag. 161. li. 17.  Again it sufficeth for our purpose, that Hades and Sheol are often used even indifferently for death, and as being in effect the same. Which also sometime we may likewise conceive of the Latin Inferi, which is by the translators and other writers used for Sheol and Hades, though (I deny not) very dangerously and corruptly indeed.] That, which is most corrupt and ambiguous, best sufficeth your purpose, who seek nothing but a confusion in Scriptures, translators, and Expositors, that you may say what you list: otherwise it doth you little good, that sometimes Sheol and Hades are used for death, since with the Septuagint Hades importeth the place and state of so much, as is dead, either in the wicked, as of body and soul; or in the godly, as of body alone. And so much doth the Latin word Inferi signify with the old translator, even places in the earth below for the dead bodies or souls; though the Latin Fathers most usually take it for the receipts of souls below the earth, to which they supposed all descended till Christ's coming. How the Greek doth sometimes render the word Sheol in Hebrew, either by Hades or Thanatos, is little to the purpose; much less, that Sheol and Maveth are sometimes joined together in the Canonical writers, either because they agree in never being satisfied, or for that they are joined together, and the one is the way to the other. For it is death, that bringeth the good to their graves, though their souls be in rest; & the wicked to hell, when as yet their bodies be in the dust. Your determining, what is meant in each place of Scripture, is of as much force with me, as a feather in the air, that flieth every way; you can no more leave talking, than water can running, where it hath an issue; but you are as lame in your proofs, as you be lavish in your words; you will say any thing, and prove nothing.  

p Defenc. pag. 161. li. 30.  That death cra●…eth more than either hell or the gra●…e strictly taken, is vouched and proved after your manner, that is by your own authority; and hath no show of truth, except you suppose, that the souls of the righteous are dead, against out saviours assertion, who saith of Abraham, Isaac, and jacob, that they are not dead, meaning in soul, which should not alway want her body; and hath therefore a day prefixed, when she shall receive her flesh raised out of the grave. With like boldness you vouch, which is the main question, that Christ 
q pag. 161. li., 7.  rejoiced, because God would deliver his soul from (Shcol) the condition of death, after he was in it; settling your conclusion, as you do your religion upon your own fantastical misconstering the Scriptures. With the same discretion you add, that in this sense 
r Defenc. pag. 162. li 3.  the reprobate and the elect after death are said to be together; and for proof thereof you bring the devils words appearing in samuel's shape unto Saul, as if the devil were lately become a teacher of truth, because he can lie; or it were in you to pronounce, whether, or which of Saul's sons were elect. 
s pag 162. li. 8.  Saint Augustine's meaning you are as near, as the North Pole is to the South: Austin never thought of your world of souls (good and bad) in one common condition, much less that the Saints in heaven might be said to be in Sheol. He speaketh of the condition of their bodies, on which death seizeth; not of their souls, which pass from death to life, and are by no divinity called dead, since they live with God, and are farther from death, then when they were living here on earth.  

t Defenc. pag. 162.  Not that there is any positive thing common to the elect and r●…probates after death (which you observe well) but only that they alike remain in death.] I assure myself, that my observation in that behalf is consonant to the word of God, and is indeed the truth, as you now confess: but then your world of souls and common condition of the dead must come to bare words, and mere privations; or else to a manifest and confessed falsehood. If Sheol and Hades in the Scriptures be nothing but words, or privations importing that men are departed this life; then happy are the wicked, that have none other Sheol or Hades, but only the want of this mortal and miserable life; and Atheists all this while were true believers, if Moses and the Prophets threatened nothing after death but a lack of life. And unhappy are the godly, 
u pag. 160. li. 2.  if the place of blessed souls, noted (as you say) by the word Sheôl, be nothing else but an empty name and a mere privation. It were good you did a little consider with your friends, how these things agree with the Christian faith, that the STATE, CONDITION, AND PLACE of just men's souls departed this life (for these three you contain in the name of Sheol and hades) should have nothing in them positive, but all privative. The place of their souls I suppose to be Paradise; and when you are in your good moods, you make it not only to be heaven, but above all the heavens, even where Christ is at the right hand of the throne of majesty. Their state is blessed with rest and joy. Hath heavenly rest and bliss no positive thing in it, but only a privation of this life? these be strange conceits; and yet if you will needs have one common condition, state, and place, to good and bad, you must come to worse consequents then these. There is indeed one common condition, state, and place of the dead bodies of just and unjust, that is, to come to corruption in their graves; but touching their souls no man besides you was ever so unwise, as to avouch that there was one condition, state, and place of the dead; howsoever, now and then, some men light on general words touching the dead, that require a sober and heedful interpreter. And by what authority do you call the condition and state of blessed souls a mere privation, or a privation at all; since to them their state is an exchange for a better life, in respect whereof this life is but a shadow of death, and the vale of misery? Use we to say, that men are deprived of their burdens, when they are eased of them? or deprived of their bondage, when they are freed from it? or that the haven depriveth Seamen of storms? No more may we rightly say, that the condition or state of blessed souls is any privation, but rather a permutation of a short and wretched life (so justly tempered for the desert of our sins) with a perpetual and happy life given us by God's mercies. The wicked, that are excluded from all sense and hope of bli●…e or ease, may be said to be deprived of this life which they loved above all things: but the Saints, that were otherwise minded, and are provided of a far better life, may not be said to be deprived, but rather delivered of the manifold troubles and afflictions of this life. But such is your conceited disposition, that if you may not have a doctrine and discipline by yourself, you loathe the way of other Christian believers.  

x Defenc. pag. 162. li. 13.  Thus the old Latin translator useth Infernum, as commonly for Hades, so sometimes for Thanatos death, and sometimes Mors, death, for Hades. Epiphanius readeth the text, Acts 2. 24. indifferently Thanatou, or Hadou, as reckoning them in effect all one.] In your last pamphlet you were at defiance with all the Fathers, Greek and Latin, 
y Treat. pag. 96. li. 21.  for abusing the words HADES AND INFERI to signify Hell properly and particularly, that is, the place of the damned, or a place under earth, a part thereof, which the latter writers have since named Limbus: you now are taught another lesson by some of your friends, whose fingers are in this second part of your defence, that it is more for your credit rather to pervert the meaning of each Father, then wholly to reject their writings. And therefore you, or they turn quite about; and now without all question the Greek and Latin Fathers (you say) meant by Hades and Inferi, not as they did before, hell or a part thereof; but your privative world of souls, and that you take upon you to justify with a round and ready course, as if it were no more mastery for you to misconstrue their sayings, than the Scriptures. Notwithstanding by process it will appear, how much your helpers have beguiled you, and brought you into a fools Paradise, upon sight of one place, with which you might wrangle, to think that all their testimonies were as soon avoided, or wrested to your purpose. The place of the Acts 2. 24. which the old Translator rendereth by the name of Infernus, and Epiphanius citeth sometimes with Hadou, sometimes with Thanatou, I omit till we come to the special handling thereof; in the mean while let us here how well you prove your project of the rest of the Fathers.  

z Defenc. pag. 162. li. 16.  justine the Martyr long before saith, Christ noted the folly of those men, that thought him not to be Christ, but that he should die and remain in Hades as a common man. He meaneth not here as a wicked man in hell, but as avy common man (whether good or bad) dying abideth in death.] Could you find no wiser men to ground your reason on, than such as Christ himself noteth of error and folly? maketh it any matter to the truth, what cogitations fools carried in their breasts? I pray you Sir why might not these unchristian fools think, that all men's souls good and bad, went after death to the place called Hades under the earth, as well as wiser men, who were of that opinion? were you so near of their counsel, as to know their thoughts? not only jews and Pagans, but even Christians were of that persuasion, as appeareth by many of the Fathers; much more than might fools be of that mind, and therefore except you have som●… better stuff, we may note this allegation of folly, and so let it pass. But if you would needs know, in what sense justine himself useth the word Hades, and what manner of place for souls after death he took it to be; read his answer to the 75. question touching Christian religion. 
a justin. quest. & r●…sponsio: ad Orthodox. r●…sponsio. 75.  After the soul is departed from the body, straightways there is a separation of the just from the unjust. For they are carried by Angels into places meet for them; the souls of the just to Paradise, where is the fellowship and sight of Angels and Archangels, with a kind of beholding of Christ our Saviour. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, but the souls of the unjust (are carried) to places in Hades as it is said of Nabuchod●…nosor king of Babylon. 
b Esa. 14.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Hades below was stirred to meet thee. So likewise he citeth and alloweth Plato's words. When death draweth near, 
c Idem in co●…ort. ad Graeco●….  the tales that are told, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, of things in Hades, how he that here dealeth unjustly, shall there be punished, and were laughed at, then trouble the soul, lest they prove true.  

d Defence pag. 162. li. 24.  Ir●…us saith. Herein Christ, (legem mortuorum seruavit,) did as other do that di●…, and conversed three days, ubi erant mortui (sancti) where the dead (Saints) were. And this he calleth locum invisibilem; the unseen world. What meaneth thi●… but Hades as we take it? yea a little before he expressly calleth it Paradise. Nevertheless I gr●…nt, that he thought this unseen world was indeed beneath in the earth. Wherein his proofs do utterly fail him, as you yourself do fully grant, and profess in this point as well as we.] In time you may learn some skill to alter and counterfeit the Father's writings; but as yet your cunning faileth you. You do not mark, or will not see, that Irenaeus in this Chapter expressly confuteth a number of your positions, and subverteth the whole frame of your mere privative Sheol; and not Irenaeus, but your sense put to Irenaeus his words against his manifest meaning, is all the hold you have in thisplace. Irenaeus condemneth two of your assertions as erroneous; the one that Christ's soul after death went upward to heaven, and descended not downward to the lower parts of the earth. The next, that the souls of the Saints, as soon as they die, ascend to the highest heavens. 
e Ir●…us li. 5. ca 31.  Haeretici, simulatque mortui fuer●…t, dic●…t se supergredicaelos. Heretics, as soon as they be dead, say they ascend above the heavens. They will not understand, that if this were so as they say, the Lord himself surely would not have made his resurrection on the third day, sed super crucem expirans confestim utique abi●…sset sursum relinquens corpus terrae; but giving up the ghost on the cross, would no doubt have straightways gone upward, leaving his body to the earth. But now he stayed three days where the dead were.  
As he refelleth your imaginations, so he nothing relieveth your assertions, though you touch nothing of his, which you turn not awry with corrupting his sense or his sentence. Christ kept the law of the dead saith Irenaeus; that is say you, he did but as others that die, and conversed three d●…es where the dead (Saints) were. The law of the dead, which Irenaeus here speaketh of, is to expect the resurrection of their bodies till the time prefixed by God. His words are. As than our Master 
f Iren●…us ut supra.  non stati●…●…lans abi●…; did not strait (after death) ascend up, but stayed the time, appointed for his resurrection by the Father; so we ought to endure the time of our resurrection prefixed by God, and so to be assumed, as many as the Lord shall count worthy. You make a new law of your own for the dead, which Irenaeus never thought of, and the i●…sible place appointed for their souls until the resurrection, if you will have it to be the same which Irenaeus saith Christ had, must be the lower parts of the earth, which I trust is not Paradise. 
g Li. 5. ca 31.  If therefore (saith he) the Lord observed the law of the dead, and staying until the third day in the lower parts of the earth, than rose in his flesh, and so ascended to his father, how should they not be confounded, who say, their inward man leaving the body here in supercelestem ascendere locum, ascendeth to the highest place of heaven.  
Touching the place, where Christ's soul severed from his body was; as the transcriber or printer before you mistook the word sanctorum in Irenaeus for sanctus, so you the second time corrupt the same in saying, Christ conversed three days where the dead (Saints) were, in steed of, Vbi erant mortui, where the dead were. This place is twice before alleged by Irenaeus, where the word sanctus is referred to God, and not to the dead. 
h Iren●…. li. 3. ca 23.  Commemoratus est dominus sanctus Israel mortuorum suorum (qui) dormierant in terra sepultionis. The Lord the holy one of Israêl remembered his dead, which slept in the earth of their burial, and descended to them. So in his 4 book and 39 chapter he repeateth it again. 
i Idem li. 4. ca 34.  Recommemoratus est dominus sanctus Israel mortuorum suorum qui pr●…dormierunt in terra defossionis. The Lord the holy one of Israel remembered his dead, which before (his coming) had slept in the earth digged to lay them in, (that is in their Graves.) justine Martyr citeth the Greek words to like effect. 
k justinus in dial●… cu●… Triphone.  The Lord God out of Israel remembered his dead, that slept 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in their graves. This being the true tenor, or translation of this sentence, it is evident that the transcriber or printer of Ireneus mistook Sanctorum for Sanctus, and you more wilfully presume to put the word Sanctus to the former period; of purpose to imply that Christ went no whither but where the souls of his (Saints) were. But you utterly pervert Ireneus meaning. for Christ's going to them doth not exclude his going else whither, and in those general words Christ conversed three days with the dead, are comprised not only the grave and place of burial, where the Lords dead were; but as appeareth by Ireneus proofs following, the 
l Iren●…us li. 5. ca 31.  Heart and lower parts of the earth, & even the nethermost Infernum, hell, where others were, which were no Saints, and the souls of the Saints were not; except you mind to establish Limbus out of these words. Now what hath your privative Sheól and Hades to do with these words? here are places described in the earth and under the earth, where if you set the souls of the Saints until the day of resurrection, you empty Paradise, and quite deny the Saints deceased to be in any part of heaven, since heaven is above and not under the earth. And though you say Ireneus proofs do fail him for his purpose, they are plain and full: as that Christ was 
m Matth. 12.  in the heart of the earth, and 
n Ephes. 4.  descended to the lower parts of the earth, and that of David applied by him to Christ: 
o Psal. 85.  Thou hast delivered my soul from the nethermost hell. There is therefore nothing in these words of Ireneus, that favoureth your new found hades, though the souls of Christ's disciples after death be granted 
p Ireneus li. 5. ca 31.  to go to an muisible place prepared for them by God, which whether it be Paradise, or heaven, or a place under earth (for thither ●…aith Ireneus Christ descended, but he doth not say that the souls of his Disciples shall thither go till the resurrection, as you falsely collect) it cannot be your hades, which is a mere privation of this life, and hath no positive thing in it; much les●…e a certain and defined place for the souls of his Saints. And where you presume, as your manner is, that Ireneus a little before calleth this invisible place expressly Paradise, if that were so, you must then confess your hades is not common to good and bad, and hath in it not only an heavenly place, but an happy state, which I trust you will not allow to the wicked: and so hades and heaven to be all one with you, which thing you so much disclaim. But by your leave it is not so, your friends and you are overbold with Ireneus to make him say what you list. Six and twenty Chapters before this he saith, the elders, which were the Apostles Disciples, delivered that 
q li. 5. ca 5.  such as were translated, (that is, removed hence with their bodies without dying, as Enoch and Elias) were translated thither even to Paradise, and there remain they which were translated even to the end; showing now a beginning of incorruption.  

r Defenc. pag. 162. li. 32.  Again he further showeth that in the Scripture he taketh hades to be all one with death or the dominion of death, where he readeth the text thus, Vbi est mors aculeus tuus? Vbi est mors victoria tua? Death where is thy sting? Death where is thy victory?] You show your 
Iren●…us wrote in Greek.  self to be well read in the fathers, that cannot tell whether Ireneus wrote in Greek or in Latin, and therefore in steed of a most 
s Hier. de scriptor. ecclesiast. in Irenaeo.  learned and most eloquent writer, as jerom calleth him, you bring us the authority of an unknown and obscure interpreter. Were there no more, but the very place even now cited, and abused by yourself, the parts whereof are found in Ireneus thrice after three several interpretations, as for example, in 
t li. 3. ca 23.  Terra sepultionis, in 
u li. 4. ca 39  terra defossionis, in 
x li. 5. ca 31.  terra stipulationis; it were enough to show the Author never wrote in Latin, that varieth so much from himself, and that the translator was very silly; but there are other arguments infinite: the Greek words expressing the conceits of heretics, above 120, every where be retained; the stile throughout exactly resembling the Greek phrase, the manifold citations thereof by the Greek Fathers, as 18. whole Chapters by Epiphanius, 22. pieces and parts thereof by Eusebius, and 14. by Theodoret, besides Polycarpe his instructor and teacher even in his youth, who was altogether a Grecian. But we shall not need to seek reasons for it, since jerom so many hundred years ago, when the original was extant, numbereth Ireneus amongst the Greek writers. 
y Hierony. in pro●… li. 18. Commenta●…iorum in Esaiam.  We shall seem (saith he) to cross the opinions of many ancient writers; of the Latins, Tertullian, Victorinus, Lactantius: of the greeks,: o omit the rest, I will make mention only of Ireneus Bishop of Lions. And again 
z I●…em in c. 36. Ezechielis.  To name the Greek writers, and to join the first and last together, Ireneus and Apollinarius. Ireneus then writing in Greek, and citing the Apostles words likewise in Greek, you cannot prove by the rude and late translation of his works, which we have, how he read the Apostles text. Gregory Bishop of Rome more than 600 years after Christ, saith. 
a Greg. R●…gist. l●…b. 9 c. 50.  Scripta beati Irenei iamdiu est, quòd solicit quaesivimus, sed hactenus ex ●…is inveniri aliquid non potuit. The writings of blessed Ireneus we have long and carefully sought for, but hitherto nothing of his can be found: he meaneth in Latin, for before and after every Greek divine, as Basil, Cyril, Theodoret, Occumenius, Aretas, Anastasius, Damascen, Procopius, Nicetas, cite Irenaeus works and words. The Latin translation of the Apostles words, 1 Corinth: 15 : Death where is thy sting, death where is thy victory, I shall have fitter occasion by and by to examine.  

b Defenc. pag. 163 li. 7.  Tertullian doth likewise. For speaking of Inferi, which he taketh for the same that hades is, he noteth it as the place, quo universa humanitas trahitur; whither all mankind must go, and therefore of Christ's going thither he saith. Because he was a man (therefore) he died according to the Scriptures, and was buried according to the same, also here he satisfied the common law (of nature) by following the form of men's dying (and going) to the world of the dead.] If you should not pervert both Tertullia's words and sense, neither would make for your purpose. And though you gain not much by corrupting the coherence of his words, yet are you so used to have all to your liking, that you cannot hold your hand from disordering other men's speeches. 
c Tertullian. de anima ca 55.  Christ (saith Tertullian) being God, because he (was) also man, (and) died according to the Scriptures, and (was) buried according to the same; even in this satisfied the law (by) performing the course of an human death, (apud Inferos) in the places below. In steed of (Legi, the law) you say the common law (of nature); apud Inferos, you translate (going) to the world of the dead. These be your fancies added to Tertullia's words, and no parts of his purpose. In the mean while you dissemble, and therein abuse both yourself and your Reader, that even in that Chapter, and the sentence before, Tertullian describeth Inferi to be a place under the earth, whither the souls of good and bad descend after death, the good to a kind of refreshing, which is plainly Limbus so much refused by yourself, the bad to punishment. His words in the five and fifty Chapter, which you quote, precedent to those which you cite are these. 
d Ibidem.  Nobis inferi non nuda cavositas, nec sub divalis aliqua mundi sentina creduntur, sed in fossa Terrae & in alto vastitas, & in ipsis visceribus eius abstrusa profunditas. Siquidem Christum in cord Terrae triduum mort is legimus expunctum, id est in recessu intimo & interno, & in ipsa Terr●… operto, & intra ipsam cavato, & inferioribus adhuc abyssis superstructo. We believe Inferi to be no bare hollowness, nor any sink under the world, but in the gulf of the earth; and in the depth of vastity, and in the very bowels of the earth an abstruse profundity. For we read that Christ was the three days of his death in the heart of the earth, that is in an inward place within the midst thereof; and covered with the earth, and hollowed within the same, and seated over mighty deeps below. If this be your world of the dead, let any man of understanding judge, whether this be not a plain & evident description of that, which the latter writers called Limbus, and whether there can be any fuller delineation of it, than a place under the earth, and in the midst thereof, even hollowed in the bowels of the earth, and covered with the same, having under it mighty deeps. And that in it there is as well rest for the good, as torments for the wicked. And the continuation of the very same sentence, which you guilefully bring for your world of dead, and the conclusion of both are delivered by Tertullian in these words, (
e Ibidem. ca 55.  if Christ did perform the course of an humanc death in places below) neither did ascend into the higth of the heavens, before he descended into the lower parts of the earth, there to make the patriarchs and Prophets partakers of himself, habes regionem inferûm subterrane am credere, thou must believe the (place or) region of inferi to be under the earth. If you draw these words to your world of the dead, then are the souls of the just neither in heaven nor in Paradise, but under the earth, even in the heart or midst thereof, and there shall remain until the resurrection, for so Tertullian resolveth of his inferi.  

f Defence pag. 163. li. 35.  Which yet is farther most clearly to be seen. Lazarus apud inferos in sinu Abrahae refrigerium consecutus, Lazarus in the world of the dead enjoyeth comfort in Abraham's bosom, contrariwise the rich man is in the torments of fire, both of them there receiving their divers rewards. How clear is this that he maketh hades and inferos even in Luke also to be nothing but the common state and world of the dead?] It is far clearer, that you never read Tertullian with indifferent care to try the truth of his meaning and words, but only to abuse the Reader with a seely show not of his writings but of your wrest. For there can be no director speech to prove, that inferi are neither heaven nor Paradise but places under the earth, and in the midst thereof, where bad and good, excepting only Martyrs, are kept in rest or pain till the general day of judgement, then is found in these books of Tertullian, from which you would gather your world of the dead. For even in the five and fifty Chapter of his book De Anima, whence you first began to weave your world of the dead, he positively avoucheth, 
g Tertullian●…s de anima ca 55.  Nulli patet caelum; terra adhuc salva, ne dixerim clausa. Heaven is opened to no man, so long as the earth is continued, that I say not closed (over them). Together with the end of the world shall the kingdom of heaven be opened. And touching Paradise he admitteth no souls to be there, but only Martyrs. And therefore to this objection. 
h Ibidem.  But thou wilt say (the dead are) in Paradise, whether the patriarchs and Prophets, that rose with our Lord, passed even then (ab Inferis) from the places below: he answereth: How then was the region of Paradise; which is under the Altar, revealed to john in the spirit, to have none other souls in it besides Martyrs? how did Perpetua the most valiant Martyr the day before her suffering, when Paradise was revealed to her, see there only her fellow martyrs, but because the glittering s●…ord, that keepeth the gate of Paradise, yieldeth to none save to such as die in Christ, that is, as Martyrs for Christ? Tota Paradisi clavis tuus sanguis est. The only key to open Paradise, is thine own blood (shed in Martyrdom). So that in as plain words, as Tertullian useth any, Inferi are neither heaven nor Paradise, but Regio subterranea, a place (or Region) under earth, and in the heart of the earth; where some souls are in rest, as he thinketh, and some in torments, which if you can turn to your general and privative Hades, you shall work wonders. That other position of his, constituimus omnem animam apud Inferos sequestrari in diem Domini; we resolve that every soul is kept in Inferi till the day of the Lord (or of judgement), as it is private to himself, and savouring of Montanisme, so it is different from the rest of the Fathers, who confess not only Martyrs, as he doth, but all good Christians after this life to be received into Paradise. This error if you be disposed, you may maintain with Tertullian, but you shall never thence establish your world of souls, which you seek for.  

i Defenc. pag. 164. li. 3.  Whereupon the learned junius noteth thus. Inferos Latini Patres (ut Graeci Haden) pro omni loco aut statu mortuorum dixerunt promiscué. The Latin Fathers use Inferi (as the Greek do Hades) for every place and state of the dead indifferently.] That junius was very learned, I do not deny, but that learned men may be partial, and many times addicted to their private collections and opihions, I would God we had not so much experience as we have. If junius mean, that Hades or Inferi were taken for every place and state of the dead, under the earth, before Christ's coming, junius words are very true; that many of the Fathers took Hades & Inferi for the place of all the dead, which they thought to be under the earth before Christ's coming; but that they called heaven or Paradise, which are places for the Saints deceased in Christ, by the name of Inferi; or that they took Inferi for the state of the blessed souls since Christ's resurrection, this I say neither junius was, nor any man living is able to prove. And for Tertullia's meaning, his words are so plain, that neither junius, nor whosoever might or may overrule them. I repeated them before, the effect is this. 
k Tertullianus de anima ca 55.  Inferi, saith he, are believed of us to be a vastity in the depth of the earth; and an hid profundity in the bowels thereof; for we read that Christ was the three days of his death in the heart of the earth, that is in the inward and middlemost receipt thereof covered in the earth, and hollowed (or compassed on every side) with the earth, and seated upon the lower gulfs. If these words be not plain enough, he addeth, 
l Ibidem.  Habes Regionem Inferûm subterraneam credere; thou must believe the Region of Inferi to be under the earth. I shall not need many words to show that junius observation out of Tertullian is not true, except you add every place and state of the dead under the earth, thereby to exclude the place and state of the blessed in heaven and in Paradise; I leave it to the judgement of any man, that hath learning or understanding, whether these words of Tertullian do not define and describe a certain place under the earth, and within the earth, in which he thought the souls of all men (patriarchs and Prophets not exempted) were before Christ's coming, and should be till the resurrection, save such as rose with Christ, or suffered Martyrdom for Christ, (for that is his exception afterward, as I have showed:) the good in rest, the bad in punishment. To that end he saith. 
m Idem de Anima. cap. 58.  Omnes ergo animae penes inferos, inquis. Velis ac nolis, & supplicia iam ILLIC, & REFRIGERIA; habes pauperem & divitem. Cur enim non putes animam & puniri & foveri in Inferis interim sub expectatione utriusque judicij? All souls than you suppose, are in Inferi. Will you, ●…ill you, you have THERE already both punishment and comfort, the poor man and the rich. For why should you not think the soul to be punished and cherished in Inferis, in the places below, mean while under an expectation of either judgement? These words you can allege, and neglecting how plainly Tertullian hath taught before, that Inferi are places in the heart of the earth, and a region under the earth, you wilfully change condition for regi●…on, and state for place, skipping clean, that all this is under earth, and then you say this is your world of the dead, whereof part are in heaven by your own positions, and part in hell. But this is too sensible a subverting of Tertullia's words, unfit either for junius to begin, or for you to follow. If Tertullia's words were as true as they be plain, neither side might refuse his opinion.  
Neither was Tertullian alone in this persuasion, that all departing this life before Christ's death went to places below in the earth. Ireneus affirmeth almost as much. 
n Irenaeus li. 4. c●…. 45.  Ea propter Dominum in ca, quae sunt sub terra descendisse evangelizantem & illis adventum suum. Therefore the Lord descended to the places under the earth to preach (or publish) even to them his coming. And again, Christ conversed three days, 
o Irenaeus li. 5. ca 31.  where the dead were, yea where the souls of the dead were, and was in the heart of the earth, and stayed till the third day in the lower parts of the earth, where I trust you will not defend Heaven or Paradise to be. jerom is more plain in this point: 
p Hieron. in 3. ca Ecclesiastis.  Solomon speaketh thus, saith he, because before the coming of Christ, omnia ad inferos pariter ducerentur, all were carried alike to the places below. Wherefore jacob saith, He shall descend ad inferos, to the lower places. Et Iob pios & impios in inferno queritur retentari. And job complaineth that the godly and the wicked are detained in inferno, in the gulf below. And lest you make what you list of the words Inferi & Infernus, as junius and some other learned men by their leaves have done, you shall hear what Ierom himself saith of them both: 
q Idem in Ose. ca 13.  Inter mortem & inferos hoc interest, between death and inferi this is the difference. Death is that whereby the soul is separated from the body. Infernus locus, in quo animae includuntur sive in refrigerio, sive in poenis. Infernus is the place in which the souls are shut up, either in refreshing or in punishment. Now where this place was, and how long the souls of the just stayed there, he doth not dissemble. 
r Idem in Os●…. ca 14.  We learn (by Esay) saith he, that Infernus is under the earth. And 
s Hiero in Epistol. ad Ephes. ca 4.  that Infernus is in the lower part of the earth, the Psalmist witnesseth, saying: The earth opened and swallowed Dathan, and covered the congregation of Abiram. For 
t Idem in Ion●…. ca 2.  as the heart is in the midst of the living creature, so Infernus is said to be in the midst of the earth. And upon these words of Solomon, There is neither thought, knowledge, nor wisdom in Infernus whither thou goest, he saith. 
u Idem in ca 9 Ecclesiastis.  Nota ut Samuelem quoque verè in Inferno credas fuisse, & ante adventum Christi, quamuis sanctos, omnes Inferm lege detentos. Porro quod sancti post resurrectionem Domini nequaquam teneantur Inferno testatur Apostolus dicens, melius est dissolui & esse cum Christo. Qui autem cum Christo est, utique non tenetur in Inferno. Note, that thou mayest believe Samuel also was truly in Infernus; and that before Christ's coming, all, though saints, were detained under the law of Infernus. But that the saints after the Lord's resurrection are no longer in Infernus, the Apostle witnesseth, saying: It is better to be dissolved, and to be with Christ. Now he that is with Christ, certainly is not held in Infernus. I would not repeat so much of this, which I do not acknowledge to be undoubtedly true, were it not that you and some othe●…s take advantage of these sayings, (which yet you reject as utterly false) to establish hence your new world of souls, and that after Christ's resurrection, directly repugnant to their assertions, out of whose words you would seem to derive your opinion. For you hold, that to this hour the souls of the just are in hades and infernus and so shallbe till the resurrection; since infernus and hades, as you bear men in hand, import no more with the Latin and Greek fathers but the condition and state of the dead in general, whether they be in hell or in heaven. Well this may be your conceit, but no father Greek, or Latin, ever made mention of any such thing, as you would gather out of their words. That all men's souls before Christ's coming, good and bad, were in places under the earth, the good in ease and comfort, the rest in pains and torments, this some of the fathers both Greek and Latin avouch; but that the just still remain now after Christ's resurrection either in hades or Infernus, I find no man that avoucheth any such thing, save only Tertullian. The first I must confess I do not believe, neither did Saint Austen before me, who learnedly and truly concluded, that Abraham's bosom mentioned by our Saviour in the Gospel could be no part nor member of Infernus or hell; since the Scripture saith, there is a great and mighty gulf set between them, so that the one can have no access to the other, and the just were above in comfort, whiles the wicked were below in hades, a place of torment, punished with flames of fire. But since the resurrection of Christ, no father (I still except Tertullian) affirmeth the souls of the just to be in hades or infernus; but in Paradise, which Tertullian yielded to none but to Martyrs, being himself infected with the error of Montanus, when he wrote his book De anima, as shall most plainly appear, though you never so stiffly deny it. Howbeit his opinion in that was private, and different from the rest. For jerom saith. 
x Hiero. in Epitaphio Nepotiani.  Ante Christum Abraham apud Inferos post Christum latro in Paradiso. Before Christ Abraham was in places below: after Christ the Thief was in Paradise. Now the thief was justly punished for his offences, and so no Martyr. 
y Idem in Zacharia. ca 9  And again. The munition, to which God exh●…rteth the Prisoners of hope, we ought to understand none other but the habitation of Paradise, to which the Thief first entered with the Lord. For 
z Idem tomo 3. ad Dardanum de terra viventium.  this is the Land of the living (in which the good things of the Lord are prepared for meek and holy men,) to which before the coming of our Lord and Saviour in the flesh, neither Abraham, nor Isaac, nor jacob, nor the Prophets, nor other just men could attain. But even by Tertullian himself it is evident, that your collection out of him is utterly false. For he excepteth martyrs out of Inferi, and placeth them in Paradise, who yet I trust are in the condition of the dead. And so by no means do inferi signify with Tertullian the place or state of good and bad indifferently, that are dead, but only such as were, or are in places under the earth, who are properly and truly called inferi in respect of us and not those that are above us in heaven or Paradise, where on every side we now confess the Saints are, though their bodies lie yet in the dust under earth.  
And because chrysostom is quoted as one of the Patrons of these pretences, I am content to let you see, that chrysostom is abused as well as the rest. For howsoever chrysostom be vehement and sometimes figurative in his speeches, yet shall you not be able to prove, that he ever useth Hades after Christ's death and resurrection for the place of just men's souls. Before that time (some of the Greek Fathers supposing the souls of the just to be kept under the earth) you may perchance find here and there a sentence where the just are said to be in Hades: but you shall never be able to evince, that after Christ's resurrection Hades is either the common condition or place of souls departed good and bad, as you and some others would seem to observe out of the Greek Fathers. I speak of no more than I have read in Greek, but for so much as is extant of theirs, and I could get, I dare assure the Reader he shall find my saying to be true. As for the Homily of chrysostom, which you cite, it can do you no great good. The Greek to my knowledge is not Printed, and therefore you can conclude nothing for Hades, since the Grecians have and use many words for Inferi besides Hades. Cyril of jerusalem expressing in Greek that Article of the Creed, descendit ad inferos, saith, 
a Cyrillus Hierosolymit. catechesi. 4.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Christ descended to the places below (or under the earth) to redeem thence the just. But grant the word Hades be used in that place of chrysostom, what prove you more than that Chrysostom was of opinion the souls of the just before Christ's coming were not in heaven or Paradise, but in Hades under the earth? neither shall we need for witness thereof to go any farther than the same Homily, which you produce for your purpose. His words even there are these. 
b Chrysost. tom, 2 homil. de divite ex Luc. 16.  Simulque consider andum, quod Abraham apud inferos erat. Nondum enim Christus resurrexerat, qui illum in Paradisum duceret. Antequam Christus moreretur, nemo in Paradisum conscenderat nisi Latro. And withal we must consider, that Abraham was yet (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) apud inferos, with those that were under the earth. For Christ was not yet risen; who should bring him into Paradise. Before Christ died, no man ascended to Paradise but the thief. No man could enter into Paradise, which Christ had shut. The thief was the first, that entered with Christ. The cross of Christ (is) the key of Paradise, the cross of Christ opened Paradise. 
c Ibidem.  Abraham is yet under the general condition of death; though his soul be in Paradise: but Abraham is no longer in Hades, where he was before Christ's coming by Chrysostoms' opinion. Hades therefore is neither Paradise, nor the general state of the dead after Christ's death and resurrection; which cannot be strange to him that with any moderate pains peruseth Chrysostom.  

d Chrysost. sermo. 5. in 5. seria ●…ssion.  Nec mors tollere, nec infernus potuit hanc (animam) tenere; qua iubente tremens etiam vinctas animas, quas tenebat, amisit. 
e Ibidem.  Christo moriente d●…tione Tartarus perdidit quos tenebat, abiecit infernus ius potestatis antiquae. Neither could death take nor ●…nfermis (or Hades) hold Christ's soul, at whose commandment, hell (or Hades) trembling let go the souls which he held bound. Christ dying hell lost out of his dition (or custody) whom before it held. Infernus (or Hades) threw of the right of his former power. And after his eloquent manner speaking in the person of Christ, he saith amongst other things. 
f Idem serm. 3. de Resurrect. tomo. 3.  I should have left ungrateful (men) to everlasting punishment; but mercy, I confess, prevailed with me. I sent not an Angel, but I myself came down for thee. I suffered myself to be slain, & sic ad istos Inseros veni; and so came to these lower places. Go out now you that are bound; rise up ye that are wretched; breath yourselves ye prisoners. Behold I shine on you as light unwonted, behold I break all your cords and chains. Ecce Tarteareas sedes, noctemque profundam faetidumque chaos extermino. Behold, I abolish (to you these) infernal seats, (this) dark mist, and stinking chaos. Here is Chrysostom's hades, which I trust is not the general state nor place of all men's souls under Christ: specially since Chrysostom in plain speech saith, Christ abolished and ended all these things to them that were in hell or hades. If you stand on the Greek word, as not expressed in Chrysostoms' Latin copies; out of these Latin translations your Leaders by their leaves gathered their observations (for these parts of Chrysostom are not yet printed in Greek) and therefore rightly may they berefuted by the same. But though it be no small defect, that we want as yet the most of Chrysostoms' works in Greek, nevertheless by part you shall perceive what he meaneth by the word Hades wheresoever it is occurrent in his writings. In his homily of the resurrection (which I before cited, lying in the New College Library in Oxford) he hath these words: 
g Chrysost. adversus Ebrios & de Resurrectione.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The Lord came on his cross, and paid a death for (man) who was held of the devil, that he might free him from the bands of hades. Where the bands of hades are those wherein man was detained of the devil. And elsewhere speaking of the cross of Christ: 
h Chrysost. in Matth. ●…6. ●…om. 55.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; If (the cross of Christ) broke up the gates of hades; and set wide open the arches of heaven; and renewed the entrance into Paradise; what marvel is it, if it over came deadly poisons and cruel beasts. And so again, (God by Christ) 
i I●…m tractat. 7. de gloriatione in tribulatione.  abolished the curse, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and broke in pieces the gates of hades, and opened Paradise. And showing a general consent of all nations in this use of the word, he saith; 
k Idem in 2. ad Corinth. homilia 9  The Grecians, Barbarians, Poets and Philosophers, and all sorts of men consent with us in this, though not after the same manner, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and say, that there are certain judgements (or punishments) in hades. Which Theodoret likewise confesseth to betrue: 
l Theodoret. sermo. 11. de sine & judicio.  These speeches, saith he, are sit for Philosophy (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to send the souls, that have lived here well, to heaven, and those that have followed the contrary, down to hades. And of Plato he saith, 
m Ibidem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. In many places he affirmeth tortures in hades.  
And lest I should be thought to be lead with a desire to contradict without cause, or upon some conceit to oppose myself against such learned men, as have leaned that way supposing hades with the Greek Fathers to import the place and state of good & bad after death, I am not unwilling, good Christian Reader, if it be not tedious or troublesome to thee, to set down part (for the whole would make a new volume) of that which in reading I have observed touching the use of the word hades with ancient writers that were Christians, who use not hades either for the place or state of the godly now deceased in Christ, nor for the general or common condition of both elect and reprobate since Christ's resurrection, but as we saw before in justine the martyr, chrysostom and Theodoret precisely for a place opposite to Paradise, and heaven; where the wicked after this life find the due wages of their sins, which is eternal dar●…knesse and death, where the dwelling and dominion of Devils is; and whence the Saints dead and living from the beginning of the world to the end thereof we●…e and are redeemed and delivered by Christ.  
josephus a jew, and yet a fauour●…r of Christian Religion, as appeareth by his testimony, given of Christ, and one that lived even in the Apostles time, as being a chief leader of the jews in the battle against the Romans, and taken by Ve●…pasian, to whom he foretold by the gift of p●…ophesie, whiles Nero yet lived, that he should be Emperor, in his oration to dissuade them, that would have killed themselves and him before he should yield to the Romans; 
n I●…sephus de ca●…tiuitate Iu●…aica li. 3. ca 25.  Know you not, saith he, that such as go out of this life by the law (or course) of nature, and rep●…y the debt, which they r●…ceaued of God, when he that gave it, is willing to receive it, have immortal glory, an house and offspring settled, and their souls cleansed and favoured of God, inhabit the holiest place of heaven: and 
n I●…sephus de ca●…tiuitate Iu●…aica li. 3. ca 25.  whose hands wax mad against themselves, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, THEIR SOVL●…S HADES, that is, dark, RECEIVETH. Ignatius the third bishop of Antioch after the Apostles, saith of Christ: 
o .  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. He descended alone to Hades (Hell) and threw down the rampire, that had stood from the beginning; and broke up the partition wall thereof; which kept men from heaven. To the state of the dead Christ's soul did not descend alone, the thief's soul was with him; neither had the rampire of bodily death continued unbroken from the beginning, since many before Christ's suffering rose from the general condition of the dead; but hell it was, to which he alone, of all men that ever returned, went, and broke the strength and force thereof, which till that time was untouched. Theophilus the sixth bishop of Antioch, about 170 years after Christ, allegeth against Autolycus a maligner of Christian religion the verses of Sibylla, to prove that the Gentiles did sacrifice to devils: 
p .  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. You made sacrifices to devils in hades. Clemens Alexandrinus not long after labouring to prove that Peter's words, Christ preached to the spirits in prison, pertained to the wicked, not to the godly, giveth this reason: 
q Cl●…ens Stroma●… li. 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; who being well advised, will think the souls of the just and of sinners, to be in one cond●…mnation? Whence he concludeth, that none heard Christ's voice there, but 
r .  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; such as were placed in hades; and had yielded themselves w●…ttingly to destruction. And for proof thereof allegeth these words as out of the Scripture: 
q Cl●…ens Stroma●… li. 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Hades said to destruction, We saw not his shape, but we heard his voice. I cite not these places to approve every allegation or opinion that is occurrent, but to show in what sense the ancient Greek writers, that were Christians, used the word Hades, not for the common condition and state of souls just and unjust, which Clemens here disa●…oweth; but for the place where the wicked were detained, that wilfully wrought their own destruction. Eusebius speaking in the person of Christ, saith 
r .  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. I see my descent to Hades approach and the rebellion (against me) of the contrary powers that are enemies to God; He saith Eusebius went thither, 
s Ibidem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, for the salvation of the souls that were in Hades, and descended to break the brazen gates, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; & to dismis those that before were prisoners of hades. And out of Plato he allegeth this for a truth 
t Idem Euangeli●…ae preparat. lib. 13. quod Plato non per omni●… recte senserit de anima.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that the souls of the wicked immediately after death departing hence, endure the punishment in Hades, of their doings here.  
Athanasius a man of no mean judgement, in whose confession or Creed allowed in the Book of Common Prayer, we find it a part of the Christian faith, that Christ descended to Hades, declareth in infinite places what he meaneth by the word Hades. 
u Athanas. in illud omnia mi●…i tradita sunt à Patre.  After man had sinned, saith he, and was fallen, by his fall death prevailed from Adam until Christ; the earth was accursed, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Hades was opened; Paradise was closed, Heaven was offended: but after all things were deliu●…red to Christ, the whole was reform and persited, the earth in steed of a curse was blessed, paradise was opened, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Hades shrank for fear, the gates of heaven were left open. 
x Ibidem.  He suffering for us recovered us, and hungering refreshed us; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. And descending to hades brought us back. 
y Idem contra Arianos oration●… 2.  For if the Lord had not been made man, we had never risen from the dead as redeemed from our sins, but had remained under the earth as dead, neither had we ever been lifted up to heaven, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, but had lain in hades. Again, 
z Idem de inca●…natione Christi.  he that examined (man's) disobedience; and gave judgement, inflicted a double punishment, saying to that which was earthly, Earth thou art, and to earth shalt thou return; and to the soul, Thou shalt die the death; and so man was distracted into two parts, and condemned to abide (after death) in two places. If you can show an other place, whither man was condemned, well may you say man was divided into three parts, and that being recovered out of two places, he remaineth bound and chained in the third. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, but if you can show none other place besid●…s the grave and hades (hell) out of which man was perfectly freed by Christ, how say you then, that God is not yet reconciled to man? 
a Ibidem.  This appeareth not only in us, but in the death of Christ; the body coming to the grave, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and the soul descending to Hades, being places that are severed with a great distance; the grave receiving his body, (for there it was present) and hades his spirit (or soul.) else how did (Christ) present the shape of his own soul to the souls detained in bands, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, (that) he might break in sunder the bands of the souls detained in hades? So likewise speaking of Christ's pursuing the devil by his life and death, he else where saith. 
b Athanas. in passionem & crucem Domini.  The devil was fallen from heaven, he was cast from the earth, he was pursued in the air, every where conquered, and every where straightened, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he determined to keep Hades (hell) for this place was yet left him. 
c Ibidem.  But the Lord a true Saviour would not lean his work unfinished, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, nor leave those that were in hades as yielded to the enemy. The devil therefore 
d Ibidem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, thinking to kill one lost all, and hoping to carry one to Hades (hell) was himself cast out of hades (hell.) 
e Ibidem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Hades (hell) is abrogated, death no more prevailing, but all being raised to life, neither can the devil stand up any more against us, but is fallen, and indeed creepeth on his breast and belly. And therefore of the Saints he saith, 
f Ibidem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: and in fine they saw Hades (hell) spoilt.  
Epiphanius in sundry places expresseth the parts and purpose of Christ's descending to hell, or hades. 
g Epiphanius in haer●…m A●…●…aleosi,  He was crucified, buried, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, He descended to the places under earth in his divinity and in his soul, he took captivity captive, and rose again the third day. What here he calleth places under the earth, whither Christ's soul went after his death, that elsewhere he calleth Hades. 
h Idem in li 2. h●…resi 69. contra Ariomanitas.  The Godhead of Christ would perform all things that pertained to the mystery of his passion; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and would descend together with his soul to the infernal places to work the salvation there of such as were before dead, I mean the holy patriarchs: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, etc. that he might perform the things he would against hades in the form of a man even in hades, that the chief Ruler HADES and death thinking to lay hands on a man, and not knowing his Deity united to his sacred soul, Hades himself might rather be surprised, and death dissolved; and that fulfilled which was spoken, Thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades. Basil: 
i Basil. homilia quod Deus non est author malorum.  Death is not altogether evil, except you speak of the death of a sinner, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: because their departure hence is the beginning of their punishments in hades; again, the eu●…s that are in hades have not God for their cause, but ourselves, the head and root of sin is in us, and in our wills. And again: 
k Ibidem.  Dathan and Abiram were swallowed up of earth, the gulfs and clefts thereof opening under them. here were not they the better for this kind of punishment: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: for how should they be so, that went to hades (to hell) but they made the rest the wiser by their example. And writing on the 48 Psalm: 
l I●…m in Psal. 4●….  Because (man) turned himself from the word of God and became a beast; the enemy caught him as a sheep without a shepherd, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and put him in hades (hell); but when he saith, God will redeem my soul from the power of hades, 
m I●…idem.  he doth plainly prophesy, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the descent of the Lord to hades, who would redeem the Prophet's soul with others not to abide there. Nazianzen in his second Oration against julian the Ren●…gate: 
n Nazianzen. in Iu●…ianum oratione 2.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Stop thou thy secrets and ways that lead to hell (hades), I will declare the plain ways which lead to heaven. And of Christ he saith; 
o Idem oratio. 1. d●… si●…io.  Christ died, but he restored to life, and with his death abolished death. He was buried, but he rose again. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He descended to hell (hades), but he brought back souls, and ascended to heaven. Macarius: 
p Macarius' homil. 11.  When thou hearest that Christ delivered souls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, out of hell (hades) and darkene●…se, and, that the Lord descended to hades, and did an admirable work; think not these thin●… to be far from thine own soul. And thus he maketh Christ to speak to death and to the devil; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 etc. 
Ibi●….  I command thee hades and darkness and death restore the souls enclosed. And so the wick●… powers trembling, refund man that was enclosed. Cyrill of Alexandria: 
q  In old times (before Christ) the souls of men departing from their bodies were sent to fill the receptacles of death 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in dens under the earth. But after Christ commended his o●…ne soul to his Father, he renewed the same way for us: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; And now we go not to bades from any place, but we follow him rather in this, and committing our souls to a faithful Creator, we rest in excellent hope. Yet of Christ he a●…firmeth, 
r  The soul which was coupled and united to the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 descended into hades; and using the power and force of the Godhead 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, showed it sel●…e to the spirits (or souls) there.  
For we must not say that the Godhead of the only begotten, which is a nature uncapable of 
〈◊〉.  death, and no wa●… conquerable by it, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; was brought back from the d●…es under the earth. Cyrill of jerusalem like wise in his Catechisms upon those words of the Psalm, If ascend to heaven, thou art there; if I go down to hades, t●…u art pre●…ent saith; 
t  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 etc. If t●…ere ●…e ●…ing higher than the heavens, and hades be lower than the earth, he that compre●…●…eth the ●…owest, doth also touch the earth. And to those that were baptised, he saith; 
u .  When thou renouncest Satan, thou hast utterly abrogated the covenant had with him, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 etc. even the old covenant ●…ith hades (hell) and the Paradise of God is opened to thee.  
In the Homilies which Leo the Emperor made for the exercise of his st●…le and confession of his faith; it is said 
x Leo Imperator hom. 2. in sanctam Resurrectionem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Christ is risen bringing Hades prisoner with him, and proclaiming lilibertie to the capitues. He that held others bound, is now in bonds himself. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Christ is come from hades with the ensign of his triumph; 
y Ibidem.  the sour and heavy looks of those that are utterly overthrown, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as of Hades, death, and the hateful devils. Damascene. 
z Dam●…sc. orthod●…xae fidei li. 3. cap. 22.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, etc. The soul deisied descended to Hades, that as to those on earth the Son of righteousness was risen, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so to those that sat under the earth in darkness and in the shadow, light might shine. 
a Eiusdem homil. de Sabbato sancto.  The brazen gates were torn, the iron bars were broken, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and the keeper of Hades (hell) did shake for fear, and the foundations of the world were laid open. Cydonius. 
b Cydonius de morte contemnend●….  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. That there is in hades (hell) vengeance for all sins here committed, not only the consent of all wise men, but also the equality of the Divine justice confirmeth and strengthmeth this opinion. Aeneas Gazeus. 
c A●…ae Gazei Theophr●…sius.  He that in a private life committeth small sins, and lamenteth (them) escapeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the punishments that are in Hades (hell.) Gregentius. Christ 
d Grege●…tij disputat. cum Herbano judaeo.  took a rod out of the earth, which was his precious cross, & stretching his right hand, strake all his enemies, & conquered them; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that is Hades, death, sin, and that wil●…e serpent. Theophylact. 
e theophra. in 16. ca Lucae.  The rich man dying is not carried by the angels, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, but is thr●…wen down to Hades. For he that minded never any high or heavenly thing, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, was worthy of the lowest place. In saying then he was buried, the Lord secretly signifieth, that his soul had the place, that was lowest and dark. And though he there show the opinion of some, that thought hades to be rather the condition of the soul after death then a place, yet he himself resolveth the contrary. 
f Ibidem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. What is hades? Some say it is a place of darkness under the earth, others say Hades is the change of the soul from sensible to obscure and unseen. And though the words of our Saviour determine that doubt, who maketh the rich man call it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, this place of torment, yet Theophylact himself reasoning there against Origen out of Abraham's words, saith; 
g Ibidem.  As it is then unpossible for any of the just to pass to the place of sinners, so Abraham teacheth us it is impossible 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to pass from the place of punishment to the place of the righteous.  
And since their names do not appear that were of this opinion, and being latter in age, deserve not the same credit for their judgements that the ancient and learned Fathers do, I omit these petite masters, whom no man knoweth, as fansing somewhat, if they could prove it, and will go forward with the main consent, as of all Greek divines that are extant; so of the best and eldest commentators and expounders of Greek words, to show that Hades is a place of darkness under earth for souls, where now none but wicked are contained, and there punished. Eustathius Archbishop of Thessalonica, a man of no mean skill in the Greek tongue, as appear by his commenting upon Homer, saith. 
h Eus●…athius in 1. I●…ados.  Haïdes (which is Hades) is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a dark place under earth, unseen, and appointed for souls. Phavorinus Bishop of Nuceria in his commentaries of the Greek tongue, saith likewise: 
i ●…hauorini Dictionarium in verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Hades is a place under the earth, secret and hid; which he also calleth, 
k Id●…m de verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a place without light, and filled with eternal darkness. The great Etymologist of the Greek tongue concurreth with them. 
l Etymo●…ogicon m●…ga in verb●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Hades is a place void of light, and full of everlasting darkness and mists.  
I shall not need with many words to urge the properties and conditions of the place, which these Greek Fathers call Hades. It is apparent to any who will p●…ruse them, that they avouch it to be a place of darkness, opposed to heaven and Paradise, and under the earth, where Devils are keepers and tormentors of souls, and where the wicked after this life are kept prisoners, and suffer punishments according to their deserts, & which Christ destroyed and spoiled by his descent thither, delivering thence, that is from the fear, power, and danger thereof, all such as before or after did or should believe in him. And though some of these writers did happily think the souls of the godly deceased before Christ's death were kept in a part thereof, in hope of their deliverance thence; yet with one consent they witness it to be nothing less than heaven or Paradise, or the state of the dead common to good and bad after Christ's resurrection; as likewise they teach, that Christ delivered thence, not only such of his elect as were dead before that time, but all the faithful, aswell then living, as yet unborn. And therefore a deliverance thence doth not exactly conclude a local detention and inclusion there, but a quitting and disloluing of all the right, interest, and challenge; that hell or Satan had for sin unto the servants and members of Christ, whensoever they lived or died. Only Tertullian is opposite to them all, who dreamt that the souls of all the faithful, save Martyrs, were kept in places under the earth, which he calleth inferi, till the general resurrection; wherein, as in many other points delivered in his book de Anima, he goeth a private way by himself without and against the main resolution of the rest of the Fathers.  

m De●…enc. pa. 164. li. 17.  He doth not montanize in this (as you object) but consenteth with Irenaeus before and with others after him, as shall appear, who were no Montanists.] Your mistaking Irenaeus here, as you did before, little helpeth your market; and others, when you bring them, shall have an answer fitting them. In the mean while where you be so zealous to save Tertullian from Montanisme; he must have a better proctor than you are to uphold his cause, or else it will soon fall to the ground. That none but Martyrs are in Paradise, and all other the faithful departing this life are in prisons and places under the earth till the day of judgement, this is not only repugnant to the Scriptures and the rest of the Fathers, but a plain branch of Montanus heresy, which Tertullian deriveth from no grounds of holy Scripture, whence all truth must be fet; but from certain Revelations & Prophecies different from the Scriptures, which Montanus and others published as made by the holy Ghost after the writing of the Scriptures; and which Tertullian in his writings coloureth with the name and pretence of the Para●…te; calling the true Christians, that refused his new found doctrine, Psychicos natural men, and not led by the latter direction of the spirit, as Montanus and others were; whom in exacting chastity, abstinence, and Martyrdom more strictly than the Church of Christ did, he followed. And therefore not only his doctrine in this place allowing Paradise to none besides martyrs, but his alleging Montanus very words, and pretending the Paraclete for his conceit no where written in the Scriptures, declare him expressly in this to be a Montanist.  
For plainer proof whereof, first Tertullian speaking of himself, when he forsook the rest of the Christians to cleave to the revelations of Montanus and his adherents, saith, 
n .  Et nos quidem postea agnitio Paracleti atque defensio disiunxit a Psychicis. The agnising of the Paraclet (in the prophecies of Montanus) and defending thereof did afterward disjoin us from the carnal men. So he termed the Church of Christ for refusing the new prophecies of Montanus, as appeareth evidently by his book De jeiunio adversus psyc●…cos, of fasting against the car●…all men, which Saint jerom saith was written 
o .  specialiter adversum ecclesiam, particularly against the Church. Where he likewise taxeth the Christians for resisting the Paraclet, or new prophecies of Montanus, covering them under the name of the Paraclet, and interpreting the one by the other. 
p .  Hiparaeleto controuersiam faciunt, propter hoc novae prophetiae recusantur, non quod alium Deum praedicent Montanus. Priscilla & Maximilla, sed quod plane doceant saepius ieiunare quam nubere. These ●…arnall men quarrel with the Paraclet, and therefore are the new prophecies refused, not that Montanus. Priscilla, & Maximilla preach another God, but that they plainly teach oftener to fast then to marry. Now for these very points, that none are in Paradise but only marturs, and that the souls even of the patriarchs and Prophets and all other godly Christians are apud inferos, in places under the earth, and so shallbe till the fullness of the resurrection, Tertullian urgeth in his book De anima and in this chapter the authority of his paraclet, which was the founder of Montanus new prophecies. 
q Tertullia●… de anima ca 55.  Agnosce differentiam Ethnici & fidelis in morte, si pro Deo occumbas, ut p●…racletus mo●…et, non in mollibus febribus & in lectulis, sed in an. Acknowledge the difference of an Ethnic and a believer even in their deaths, if thou die for God's cause, as the Paraclet warneth, not in easy agues and soft beds, but in Martyrdoms. And that these were the very words of Montanus new prophesy, may easily be perceived by Tertullian himself, who writing against all flight in persecution (which book was 
r De Script●…ribus Ecclesiasticis in Tertulliano.  specially written against the Church, by jeroms own confession) citeth them as the words of the spirit, to wit in the new prophecies of Montanus. 
s Tertull. de fuga in persecutione.  Spiritum si consulas etc., omnes pene ad martyriuns exhortatur, non ad fugam, ut & illius commem●…ur: publicaris inquit; ●…onum libi est. Qui enim non publicatur in hominibus, publicatur in Domino. Sic & a●…bi. Nolite in lectulis & febribus m●…llibus optare exire, sed in Martyrijs. If thou take counsel of the spirit, he exhorteth all very near to Martyrdom, not to flight; as to remember you of that speech. Art thou made a public example, saith he, it is good for thee. He that is not made a public ●…xample amongst men, shallbe made one with God. And so in another place desire not to depart this life in beds & easy agues but in Martyrdoms. These words Tertullian allegeth as evidently written by the spirit, which since they be no where found in any part of the new or old Testament, & disagree both in words & matter from the stile & truth of the sacred Scriptures, they savour of another spirit, & must of force be referred to the prophecies of Montanus, who in this very point was condemned by the church of Christ, against which, as jerom avoucheth, Tertuilian wrote this book in favour of Montanus heresy. And so much also that learned observer Rhenanus affirmeth upon this place. 
t Rhena●…s in li. de suga in persecutione numero. 9  Verba sunt Prophetiae Paracleti Montanici, These are the words of the prophesy of Montanus spirit. Your friends therefore, who lent you their pains, were not well advised in excusing Tertullian in this matter from Montanisme, since not only the error of Montanus is here defended, but the very words of his new revelation are here alleged.  

u Defenc. pag. 164. li. 23.  Also in that objection of certain Heretics, whom he confuteth, not the true Christians, as you misconceive. They argued thus (as you do). In hoc Christus inferos adijt, ne nos adiremus. Christ therefore went to hell, to the end we should never come there. He answereth them, that it is false, that Christ went to inferos in that sense, that is, to hell. For than what difference is there between the wicked heathen and the godly Christians, if one and the same prison after death were for them both? taking it for a thing generally granted in the Church that it were a WICKED AND HERETICAL THING to think, he went where the damned were, that is, into hell.] Ignorance maketh you not only blind and bold, but presumptuous and saucy to acquit from heresy, and condemn for heresy, whom pleaseth you. And therefore I must not think it strange to be challenged by you, for a wicked and heretical opinion, since you grossly bely the whole Church of Christ, and dip them in the same vate of wicked and heretical things with me. You wilfully wrest and misconstrue Tertullia's words smoothing him in a manifest error against the whole Church of Christ, and rolling them up with wicked heresy, that were the greatest lights of Christian religion next after the Apostles. Tertullia's resolutions in this very Chapter are plain enough to him, that is not more then blind. 
x Tertull. de Anima. ca 55.  Habes de Paradiso anobie libellum, quo constituimus omnem animam apud inferos sequestrari in diem Domini. Thou hast a book of ours written touching Paradise, wherein we determine all souls to be kept sequestered (apud inferos) in infernal places till the day of the Lord. And in the sentence next before that which you cite, he saith with like confidence. 
x Tertull. de Anima. ca 55.  Habes & regionem inferûm subterraneam credere, & illos cubito pellere qui satis superbè 
y Ibidem.  non putent animas fidelium inferis dignas: servi super Dominun, & Discipuli super Magistrun, aspernati si forte in Abrahae sinu expectandae resurrectionis solatium carpere. Thou hast to believe, that the region of inferi is under the earth, and to push them from their opinions, who proudly enough will not think the souls of the faithful to be fit for infernal (or jower) places: servants above their Lord, and Scholars above their Masters, in that they scorn perhaps to have the comfort of expecting the resurrection in Abraham's bosom. here Tertullian positively declareth that he taketh inferi for a place or Region under the earth, and that such as thought not the souls of the faithful fit for that place till the resurrection, did proudly presume to be above their Lord and Master, and scorn Abraham's bosom, where the rest of the patriarchs & Prophets are kept, (as he dreameth) and so shallbe till the day of judgement. Now whose opinion I pray you was this, that the souls of the faithful after Christ's resurrection went to Paradise, and not to places under the earth? was it not the main confession of Christ's Church? Tertullian then purposely refuting that opinion, what else doth he but traduce the general persuasion of the faithful in favour of his new prophesy, which reserved Paradise only for Martyrs, and in that respect abandoned all the souls of the godly dying in their beds to places under the earth, there to be kept till Christ's coming.  
But examine the words, which he rejecteth, and see if they savour of heresy or Christianity. For thereby we shall best judge, whether they were Heretics or Christians, whom he there impugned. His words are, 
z Te●…tull. de Anima. ca 5●….  Said in hoc, inquiunt, Christus inseros 〈◊〉, ne nos adiremus. But to this ●…rd, say they, Christ went to (inferi) the places b●…low, that we should not come thither. If these words imply heresy, than was Saint Austen a manifest heretic, for he affirmed as much in effect, as this cometh unto. 
a A●…ust in Psal. 85.  Ideo (Christus) pervenit vs●…, ad infernum, ne nos maneremus in inferno. Therefore Christ came even unto hell, that we should not remain in hell. Men that come thither, abide there. If therefore Christ freed us by his descent thither from remaining there, he freed us from coming thither. And Ambrose was likewise an heretic in saying, 
b .  descendens ad inferos genus humanum liberavit. Christ descending to hell deliucred mankind; that is, aswell from coming thither, as tarrying there. So Hilary, 
c Hilar. de tri●…itate li. 2.  Crux, Mors, Inferi, nostra salus est, Christ's Cross, death, descent to (inferi) the places below, is our salvation. So Athanasius. 
d A●…hanas. in illud omnia mihi tradita sunt a Patre.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Christ descending to hades brought us back●…, (that we should not go thither). So jerom, 
e Hier. in Ose ca 13.  Liberavit omnes Dominus, quando eius anima descendit ad infernum: The Lord delivered all (his from thence) when his soul descended to hell. So Fulgentius, 
f Fulgent. ad Tr●…simundum li. 3.  Hoc ideo factum est, ut per descendentem ad infernum animam justi, dolores soluerentur inferni: 
g Ibidem.  solutis doloribus inferni, omnes sideles ad i●…sdem doloribus liberavit. This was therefore done that by the soul of the just descending to hell the sorrows of hell might be loosed, (and) the sorrows of hell being loosed, he delivered all the faithful from them. Our delivery thence, who were never there, must needs be the keeping us from coming thither. If then Christ by his d●…scending thither delivered us and all his elect th●…nce, it followeth he saved them from coming to that place, and that by his descent thither. And this speech Austen proveth to be right and true in this very case by many examples, from which he thus concludeth. 
h August. in ●…al. ●…5.  In his omnibus non erant, sed quia talibus meritis agebantur, ut nisi subventum esset, ibi essent, inde se recte dicunt liberari, quo per liberatores suos non sunt permissi perduci. In all these (mischiefs) men were not, but because their deserts were such, that they should have been in them, had they not been holpen (from them) they rightly say they were THENCE DELIVERED, whither they were not suffered to come, by such as delivered them. If then they were Heretics that upheld this position, the best learned of the fathers in Christ's Church were plainly within the compass of heresy; and whether it be safer to forsake Tertullian in his private conceit of Montanisme, or to muster so many religious and Catholic writers for heretics, let the Reader judge.  
And what if you take yourself by the nose before you be ware, and plunge yourself into this wicked heresy (as you call it) far deeper than others by alleging and yet refusing Tertullias fancies in this place, do you not well to be so liberal of your terms, when you must bear the greatest weight of them? I clear myself in saying and proving, that these were Tertullias private conceits con●…onant to Montanus new prophecies, and repugnant to the Church of Christ; and therefore unless these fathers were heretics I am none: but you are caught like a Come with your loud ctowing, and cannot shift thence but with your own shame. For you say, it was the objection of 
i Defenc. pag. 164. li. 23.  certain heretics. Now if yourself defend that, which Tertullian there impugneth, then are you an heretic by your own confession. First then, that Christ dying went ad inferos, that is, ad inferiora terrarum, to the lower parts of the earth, Tertullian exactly avoucheth. His words of Christ, in this very Chapter are, 
k De Anima. ca 55.  Forma humanae mortis apud inferos functus, nec ante ascendit in sublimior a caelorum, quam descendit in inferior a terrarum. He performed the manner of an human death in the places below, neither did he ascend to the higher parts of the heavens, before he descended to the lower parts of the earth. This Tertullian bringeth as granted on all sides: for he refuseth not that, which himself affirmeth. The objection then of the heretics, as you name them, was this; Ne nos adiremus, that we should not come thither; that is, ad regionem inferúm subterraneam, to the region of inferi under the earth, which is Tertullia's inferi whither he thought all must come. Now make your choice, wise Sir, whether you willbe one of the Heretics, as you say, whom Tertullian refuteth, or hold this gross error with Tertullian, that all the Saints save Martyrs, after this life are in places under the earth, there to remain till the day of resurrection. But this you every where seem to disclaim as being that Limbus, which you so much avoid. Then are you one of those heretics, whose objection this is, and that which argueth you to be a wittol, aswell as an heretic of your own calling, you have not so much sense as to see, that you yield yourself to be an heretic for defending the truth.  
Tertullian saith, 
l Defenc. pag. 164. li. 28.  it is false that Christ went to inferos, that is to hell.] You that rightly understand not one word in this place of Tertullian, talk as if you were authorized not only to contradict your own Author, but to pronounce them all heretics, that gainsay your absurd and ignorant folly. Tertullian in this place resolveth, that Christ dying went ad Inferos, that is ad Regionem Inferúm subterraneam; to the Region of Inferi under earth, for so he expoundeth himself; and concludeth, that all the faithful after death (save Martyrs) shall go to the same Region under earth, and there stay till the general resurrection. This conclusion you deny as well as I do, and say they were Heretics, that made that objection. But awake out of this maze or madness, and see that Tertullian to strengthen the private opinions of Montanus in advancing Martyrs and none else to Paradise, impugneth the profession of the whole Church, that Christ's descending to Inferi, that is to the Region under the earth, freed all the faithful from coming thither. With like stupidity you sever the reason of this position from the position itself, and make that a refutation of the objection as you call it, which is a confirmation thereof. For they which opposed the former words, Christ, therefore went ad inferos, to the places below, lest we should come thither: brought this for a reason of their assertion. 
m Tertull. de anima. ca 55.  Caeterum quod discrimen Ethnicorum & Christianorum, si carcer mortu●…s idem? For what difference is there between Ethnics and Christians, if they have one and the same prison after death? You say this is Tertullia's answer to them; but your head is so heavy, that you do not perceive this maketh for them, not against them; and so rather confirmeth than answereth their objection. They, who made the former objection, that Christ went to the places below, lest we should come thither, never excepted infidels but Christians from coming to those places. If Tertullian were of the same mind, he did rather confess, then refel their objection. But his answer to these words cometh after, which you did not read, or not mark. 
n Tertull. de anima ca 55.  Agnosce differentiam Ethnici & fidelis in morte, si pro Deo occumbas ut Paracletus monet, non in mollibus f●…bribus & Lectulis, sed in Martyri●…s. See the difference betwixt an Ethnic & a believer, if thou die for God's cause, as the Paraclete warneth, not in easy fevers and (soft) beds, but in Martyrdoms. Where following not only the fancies, but the very phrases of Montanus prophecies, as I have formerly showed, he maketh no difference (as touching the place) between Ethnics and Christians after death, except they be Martyrs: and thereby fasteneth all the faithful, that die in their beds, or of any sickness, (be it never so grievous) to Inferi, the Region under the earth, which error was always condemned by the Church of Christ.  

o Defenc. pag. 164. li. 37.  Thus also is Augustine well understood, where he denieth that the Patria●…kes were apud ●…nferos in hell, namely the place of the damned, because they were in Abraham's bosom. Which yet 
p Epistola 57 & de ciui●…ate 20. 15.  elsewhere he granteth unto, that they might be apud inferos in the world of the dead, and namely where the godly dead should be. So that thus if you had but distinguished these and other Fathers like words, as you ought to have done, there needed no such folly of contradiction to be imputed unto them, as 
q Pag. 188. 200. 204.  you do lay to their charge in this point, al●…ogether undeservedly.] Indeed if I would follow your example in drawing the Father's words from their plain and true meaning, and force them to a sense which they never thought, yea which they directly rerute; I might easily make the fathers say, what pleased me, as you do. But this with me, and with all that be wise, is the perverting, not the producing of Fathers. And therefore I did them less wrong to show, where they differed amongst themselves in some secret points not fully revealed to men in this life, then to falsify them, and abuse them after this manner. Neither said I any worse of them, than they say of themselves, that these things are uncertain, and no man might be offended, if they were not able to bring any settled (or assured) expositions (or resolutions) in these points, which Austin openly 
r In Psal. 85.  professed of himself, as I told you in that 
s Serm. pag. 189.  place which you cite. But let us hear how you medicine these matters, and by that we shall sound the depth of your skill.  
If I would take Inferos in some places for hell, in other places for the world of the dead, and namely where the godly dead should be, all were safe you think: Saint Austin did no way disagree from him in those places, which I cited, which were Epistola 99 57 de Genesi ad literam li. 12. ca 33. de civitate Dei li. 20. ca 15. To him that catcheth but after a word, and never looketh what is precedent or consequent, this may seem plaster of Paris to amend this breach; but he that readeth three lines on either side, shall soon perceive how foolishly and grossly you make Saint Austin 〈◊〉 to cross himself, and yet evidently to subvert your whole building. Begin with that place, which you quote last in your margin, and see how well you reconcile S. Augustine's words to make for your assertions. 
t August. de civitate Dei li. 20. ca 15.  Si enim non absurd credi videtur, antiquos etiam sanctos, qui venturi Christi tenuerunt fidem, locis quidem à torment is impiorum remo●…issimis, sed apud Inferos fuisse, donec eos inde sanguis Christi, & ad ea locadesce●…sus erueret; profecto deinceps boni fideles effuso illo pretio iam redempti, PROR SUS INFEROS N●…SCIVNT, donec etiam receptis corporibus, bona recipiant quae merentur. If it seem wit●…out absurdity to be believed, that the Saints of the old Testament, which kept the faith of Christ to come, were in places most remote from the torments of the wicked, and yet apud inferos in infernal (or lower) places, until the blood of Christ, and his descent thither did deliver them thence; certainly after that time the god●…y believers now red●…med with that price (of his blood) shed, never know (or try) any inferi, to the time that recovering their bodies they receive the good things deserved by them, (or prepared for them). If here we take Inferi for the world of the dead, as you would have us, do not your ears glow to hear so vehement and violent a gun shot against all your devices, and namely against your world of the dead, that certainly after the time, that Christ dscended to Inferi, the godly believers PROR SUS INFEROS NESCIUNT, never come to any Inferi? Where if you put your world of the dead for Inferi, & say the godly dying never come to be dead, or to the place where the godly dead should be, the world of the living will think you out of your wits, that so tempestuously tumble out falsehoodes and contradictions. And what will you do with that position of Augustine's so often repeated, and urged as the ground of his resolution, that he never found Inferi in the Scriptures taken in any good signification? 
u August. ●…pist. 99  Ne ipsos quidem Inferos uspiam Scripturarum in bono appell●…tos potui invenire; I never could find in any part of the Scriptures Inferos used in any good sense. And so again. 
x Idem de Genesi ad lite●…am li. 12. ca 33  Illud me nondum invenisse confiteor, Inferos appellatos ubi justorum animae requiescunt. I confess I have not yet sound that the place where the soul of the righteous do rest, is called inferi. The like he saith in his fifty seven ●…pistle. You will expound Inferi in Austin for the place, where the godly dead should be: Austen himself utterly disavoweth it, and expressly saith, he never could find the word taken in the Sc●…iptures for any good, and therefore never did use it in any such sense. Call you this the clearing, or the crossing of Saint Augustine's words?  
Even so another of your main masts is overthrown by Saint Austin, though you in your rancour or rage make it a 
y Defenc. pag. 164. li. 33.  wicked and heretical thing to think, Christ went where the damned were, that is into hell, which yet S. Austen believed & professed in those very places, which you undertake to reconcile. 
z August. epist. 57  Quaeri solet, si non nisi paenalia rectè intelliguntur Inferna, quo modo animam Domini Christi piè credamus fuisse in inferno? Sed bené respondetur ideo descendisse, ut quibus oportuit subveniret. Some use to demand, if Inferna be rightly taken for none other but for the places of punishments (after this life) how may we safely believe, that the soul of the Lord Christ was (in Inferno) in hell? but it is well answered, he descended (thither) to succour those, that were to be succoured. And so elsewhere. 
a Idem de Genesi. ad litter. li. 12. ca 33.  Christi quidem animam venisse usque ad ea loca, in quibus peccatores cruciantur, ut eos solueret a tormentis, quos esse soluendos, occuli à nobis sua iustitiâ iudicabat, non immerito creditur. That Christ's soul came even to those places, in which sinners are tormented to deliver them from torments, whom his justice unknown to us thought fit to deliver, is believed not without good cause. Austen acknowledgeth the Church believed it in his time; howsoever your tongue overrunneth your teeth to make it a wicked & heretical thing so to think. Ambrose confesseth the same. 
b Ambros. de mysterio Paschae ca 4.  Expers peccati Christus cum ad Tartari ima descenderet, vinctas peccato animas mortis dominatione destructa é f●…ucibus Diaboli revocavit ad vitam. Christ free from sin, when he descended to the lowest pit of hell, recalled to life out of the devils jaws the souls that were bound with sin, destroying the Dominion of death. And so doth jerom. Infernus locus suppliciorum atque cruciatuum est, 
c Hiero. in Esaiae ca 14.  in quo videtur dives purpuratus; ad quem descendit & dominus, ut vinctos de Carcere din itteret. Infernus is the place of punishments and torments, in which the rich man clothed with purple was seen, and to which the Lord descended to dimisse such, as were bound, out of prison. These I trust were no Heretics, but if need were, and I would use that advantage against you, which you insisting on Tertullia's error seek against me, they would do little less than prove you to be a refuser and perverter of the faith received in the Church of Christ, and professed not by them only, but by all those Fathers, whom I 
d Supra pa. 544.  formerly cited as concurring in this cause with them. But I smile at your folly, and remit your reproaches to the Readers impartial Censure.  

e Defenc. pag. 165. li. 10.  Athanasius also saying, where human souls were held by death, there Christ brought his human soul; meaneth nothing else, but that his soul came under the same condition of death, as other human souls did: not that he went to the place of the damned. Neither must he be understood after your partial translation, when you say ex orco, out of hell, himself saith ex Hadou, out of the power of death.] You set yourself to outface all the places, which I brought out of the Fathers for Christ's descent to hell; and as you played your part in wrenching & wrying the words of Tertullian & Austin from their rightsense, so you continue in all the rest with like success, thinking it enough for you to say the word, though it be never so false, and far from the Father's meaning. As first in Athanasius words; what double punishment was that I pray, which God threatened to Adam for sin, in saying 
f Athanas. de incarnatione Christi.  to the earthly part, earth thou art, & to earth shalt thou return; and to the soul, thou shalt die the death; for those are Athanasius words; and what be the 
g Ibidem.  two places, to which man after his dissolution was condemned? Did God threaten nothing to Adam but the dissolution of body and soul, or did he threaten the death of the soul also after this life, which properly noteth hell, besides the death of the body? I trust you be not so senseless as to say, that God for sin threatened no more to Adam and his posterity but only a bodily death; for so could none of Adam's offspring by that sentence be adjudged to hell, which yet we find daily performed by God's justice. Then the death of man's soul threatened by God for sin, and meant by Athanasius in those words, which you would elude, was the place of perpetual torments, where the soul of man was truly held in death, and not the condition of the soul severed from the body without respect of any consequent misery. Therefore your main foundation is evidently false, that Athanasius by the death of man's soul meaneth nothing else, but the souls being apart from the body without regard of punishment following: but in express words he noteth the place, 
h Ibidem.  Vbi tencbatur anima humana in morte, where the soul of man was held (captive) in death; which spite of your heart must needs be hell. Again according to the double death threatened for sin, Athanasius saith, ●… Homo in duas partes discerpitur, & ut ad duo loca discedat, condemnatur. Man 
Ibidem.  (dying) is distracted in two parts, and CONDEMNED TO TWO PLACES. Now in your divinity is any man condemned to heaven, or to Paradise? you must find us then two places of condemnation, whither either part of man dissolved was adjudged, as his body to the grave, his soul to hades. So saith Athanasius in express words. If you 
●… Ibidem.  can show me another place of condemnation, well you may say, that a man is divided 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, (into three places), and that being revoked out of two places he remaineth bound in the third; but if you can show none other place (of condemnation) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, besides the grave and Hades, from which man is perfectly freed, Christ delivering us, how say you then, that God is not reconciled unto mankind? If then Hades be a place of condemnation ●…or sin, where the soul of man was bound, till it was freed by Christ, 〈◊〉 certainly Hades with Athanasius is neither Paradise nor heaven, but only hell.  
Again if by death reigning in the soul of man, Athanasius intended nothing but the condition of death common to good and bad, and even to Christ himself, how could h●… say of Christ, that he was then and there 
l Ibidem.  inviolus a morte, not sub●…ect to death, or that he broke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the bands of the souls detained in hades? Hath heaven or Paradise any bands, that must be broken? And as for you last conceit, that 
m Defenc. pag. 165. li. 23.  Hades being enemy and opposite to the immortality and resurrection of men's persons, cannot by any means be hell for in hell shallbe immortality & resurrection, as well as in heaven; it is so like to the rest of your divinitic, that I doc not over much marvel at it. If hades be enemy and opposite to immortality, as you confess out of Athanasius, than Hades is neither heaven nor Paradise, for they are both places of immortality; there is no death, but life in either of them. And though you cunningly shift hands, and change men's persons for men's soul●…s, of which Athanasius speaketh, when he saith, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, where man's soul was held in death, there Christ presented his human soul to break the chains of death, even in hades; yet that immortality is as well in hell as in heaven, is a phrase of your own framing to put all truth and faith out of joint, The Scriptures teach most truly, that God alone hath 
o 1. Tim. 6.  immortality. It than you have found us a new immortality in hell, you have found us a new God also. And what is immortality, but without all death? since then in h●…ll there is nothing but death, & that eternal as well of soul as of body, your devices are very del●…cate, in everlasting death to find no death. But dally not thus with the grounds of Religion, lest God do not dally with you: if by your assertion the deliverance from death, and immortality which Christ brought to his elect, be none other than such as men in hell shall have; pray God your brains be not as much crazed, as your faith is. And as for your interpreting Athanasius words, and guessing at his meaning, when we use mad men to give advise, we will send for you to make comments upon their counsels.  
Where you make Athanasius say, 
p Defenc. pag. 165. li. 32.  Christ was held in this death till ●…e spoiled and conquered it, which (you conclude) cannot be hell out of question; You speak not one true word. Athanasius hath no such words, that Christ was held in death. Of man's soul he saith, 
q De In●…arnat. Christi.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that was held in death, but of Christ in that very sentence he avoucheth the clean contrary, saying, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, be could not be held in death. Secondly that hades was spoiled of all his power, right, and claim, to or over all Christ's elect, and we delivered thence; Athanasius, as well as the rest, beareth plentiful witness. But that Christ spoilt heaven or Paradise, where the souls of the Saints were severed from their bodies, & brought us thence, is not only a false fable, but a pestilent error. Christ raising his body from the grave (by Athanasius judgement) gave us hope of the resurrection of our bodies, and bringing back his soul from hades, as not only untouched of any death there, but also losing the bands 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, of souls surprised by hades, he made us partakers of his immortality, which the strength of hades could not touch. 
o In illud omnia ●…ihi tradita sunt a Patre.  Descending to hades Christ brought us back, saith Athanasius of himself, and of all Christ's members as then not borne. Christ did not bring all the faithful of the old Testament from the condition of death, much less brought he the rest thence, that were not either dead or borne. We die still, and so the condition of death is common to us after Christ's resurrection as it was to the fathers before Christ's death and birth; but hell hath now no right to us, nor power over us, since Christ our head conquered and spoiled Satan of all interest and challenge to any of his members. And where you pretend, that hades is spoiled, because our souls shallbe joined again to our bodies at the resurrection; know you good Sir, that the separation of the soul from the body was to dure by God's ordinance but for a time, as well in the wicked as in the godly, that is until the general judgement. And you that defend a resurrection and immortality as well of the wicked in hell, as of the Saints in Paradise, what reason can you give, why the condition of the soul separated from the body is more conquered by Christ for his members, then by Satan for his partners? for that separation shall cease in both; and consequently the force of death severing the soul from the body is spoiled aswell for the reprobate, as for the elect. Yea the continuing of the godly souls asunder from their ●…odies till the last day is rather a furnishing and storing of your hades, than a conquering and spoiling of it. And therefore mock not with these matters, they be of more importance, then that they may be thus idly carried.  

s Defence pag. 165. li. 35.  Hilary verily hath this meaning also saying, this is the law of human necessity, that their bodies go down to the grave, their souls to the world of the dead, ad inferos. Which descent the Lord did not refuse that he might prove himself in every point to be true man. And 
t Pag. 166. li. 5.  this (for his soul to come under the power of death) was indeed the law of human necessity (after the like phrase as justine, Irenaeus, and Tertullian also speak) but not to go to hell.] Your head is so freighted with falseshoods, that truth can take no place there; and so little is your skill, though your pride be great, that you do not know, for aught that I see, how necessity of death came into man's nature. Whiles man was free from sin, he was free from death. 
u Rom. 5.  By sin came death. When man lost his innocency, he lost his liberty, and fell both within the servitude of sin, and necessity of death. Now death being the wages of sin reacheth aswell to the soul after this life, as to the body to be deprived of this life. 
x Rom. 5. v. 18.  By one offence (came guiltiness) on all men unto condemnation. The law then of human necessity for sin (without Christ jesus in whom we recover liberty) is for the body to go to corruption, and for the soul to descend to destruction, and not only to be severed from the body, as you would feign mistake the words of Hilary. It is no part of human necessity for the soul severed from the body to ascend to heaven or to Paradise; that is the honour and favour of our Redemption purchased by Christ our Saviour, but necessity of death in us, which is the reward of sin, draweth the whole man body and soul unto condemnation. This you might have found to be Hilaries meaning by the words precedent, which occasioned this conclusion. Si descendero in infernum, ades. If I go down to hell, thou art there; Which Hilary showeth to be verified in Christ, by the words that you bring; meaning, that as men by sin 
y Hilar. in Psal. 138.  came to this necessity, that their bodies lying in the grave, their souls descended to hell: So Christ the redeemer of man, refused not even this descent to hell, ad consummationem veri hominis, to consummate true man, or to recover and restore both parts of man, to wit, body and soul, whereof a true man consisteth. That Christ should descend to places unseen and unknown to prove himself a true man, what sense can this have, since no man living was present to see the proof thereof? and he that doubted, whether Christ living were a true man, would much more doubt, whether Christ rising in that glorious body, which never man saw before, no●… the like, were a true man or no. I think therefore by your leave, that as Christ died, not to prove himself a true man, but to ransom our sins, so he descended to the places below, not to make proof to us, that he was a true man, but to work our salvation and consummation, as elsewhere the same Father saith; Crux, mors, inferi, nostra salus est. Christ's cross, death, and descent to inferi, are parts of our salvation. And of Christ he voucheth, mortem in inferno perimens, he killed death in hell. And yet if with you we should take consummation for demonstration, which is far fet; and say Christ re●…used not that descent to show himself a true man, it nothing hurteth me, since that burden of necessity lay on all men, for desert of sin, till they were delivered by Christ, to have their bodies go to the grave, and their souls to the place of punishment: both which Christ refused not, though he were in the one without any corruption, in the other without any condemnation, but as conqueror of both.  
Of justine, Irenaeus & Tertullian we have spoken before, we shall not need to iterate your oversights; justine speaketh of no law at all, Irenaeus noteth the law of the dead to be this, that they must stay a time dead before their resurrection; and Tertullian nameth the law either threatening Adam, if he sinned; or the Law of Moses punishing sin committed by men; either of which stretcheth farther than the separation of the soul from the body. As for 
z Defenc. pag. 166. li. 17.  the law of our nature, which you say is to die, and no more; you talk thereof, as if you were rather a profane Philosopher, than any piece of a Divine, since this law was laid on our nature for sin, and forceth as well our souls to hell, if we be not thence redeemed by Christ, as our bodies to the grave. That in death the whole man is dissolved, the soul separated from the body, and the body left void of sense and life, what is this to your purpose? will this conclude, that the soul in heaven or in paradise, being not only in rest, but in joy, feeleth still the sting of death, which she felt at her parting from her body, before she tasted the life to come? Will you continue the power and sense of death even in heaven, because the soul assured of God's goodness and promise expecteth her body to be partaker of the same bliss with her, and to receive the crown of righteousness laid up in store for all, that love Christ's coming? or if you be so venturous in favour of your own conceits, that you will mingle darkness with light, death with life, and the fear of hell with the joy of heaven, think you to find any man so unwise, as to tread your steps in these unchristian devices?  

a Defenc. pag. 166. li. 30.  chrysostom and Basil likewise (with the rest of the greeks) may be noted, how they yield Hades to the souls of the godly and just men deceased remaining in joys.] If you speak of the time afore Christ's coming, and take Hades for places under the earth, you may chance to find some such thing in chrysostom and Basil; but that either of them after Christ's resurrection yieldeth Hades to the souls of the blessed, is a manifest untruth. And since I have handled these places before, I shall not need to repeat them again.  

b Defenc. pag. 166. li. 33.  Also Ambrose is to be considered, who right according to all the rest, saith; Souls departed from their bodies did go to Hades, that is to an invisible place, which in Latin we call Infernum.] Could you allege the Father's words rightly, you might happily sometimes understand them; but always perverting them as you do, what marvel if always you miss their meaning? Ambrose doth not there deliver either his own opinion, or the persuasion of any Christians, but speaketh of Heathen Philosophers, who knew nothing of our salvation by Christ, and of them saith. 
c Ambros. de bono mortis. ca 10.  Satis fuerat dixisse illis, quod liberatae animae de corporibus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 peterent, idest locum, qui non videtur, quem locum Latine infernum dicimus. It had been enough for them (being Pagans) to have said, that the souls severed from (their) bodies went to Aides, that is to a place unseen, which in Latin we call Infernus (hell). If you be a Pagan, we look for none other confession at your hands; he that is ignorant of the faith, must needs be ignorant of the truth; but if you be a Christian, you may not say as the Pagans did, that the souls of the godly, who are with Christ, go to Hades or Infernus. Ambrose himself will tell you so much. 
d Ambros. de Tobia. ca 19  In Inferno semper est, qui non ascendit ad Christum. He that ascendeth not to Christ, is always in hell. As for Christ's descending he saith, 
e Idem. in Psal. 45.  Dominus in Infernum descendit, ut & illi, qui in Infernis erant, a perpetuis vinculis soluerentur. The Lord descended to hell, that they which were in places below, might be loosed from perpetual chains. You have found out the death of the soul in heaven, can you find us there perpetual chains also?  

f Defenc. pag. 166. li. 36.  And jerom: Infernus is a place where the souls are included either in rest or pains.] It is no news for him that hath no sense of truth, to have no shame of falsehood. If Ie●…om were not plain enough, that he hath no such words or meaning, as to bestow the souls of the saints in Inferno after Christ's resurrection, you might be borne with; but when expressly he voucheth and proveth the contrary, what can be in you but precise impudence to outface your Reader with jeroms name against jeroms most manifest assertion? 
g Hiero. in Ecclesia. ca 9  Porro quòd sancti post resurrectionem Christine nequaquam teneantur in Inferno, testatur Apostolus dicens: Melius est dissolui & esse cum Christo. Qui autem cum Christo est, utique non tenetur in Inferno. That the Saints, saith jerom, are not after Christ's resurrection detained in Infernus, the Apostle witnesseth, saying: it is better to be dissolved, and to be with Christ. Now he that is with Christ, surely is not held in Infernus. And again. 
h Idem in Epitaphio Nepotiani.  Quid simile Infernus, & regna caelorum? what likeness (or nearness) hath Infernus to the kingdom of heaven? and this the situation of Infernus every where urged by jerom will prove. 
i Idem in Esai●… ca 14.  Simul discimus, quod infernus sub terra sit, dicente scriptura, usque ad fundamenta Laci. Withal, saith he, we learn, that Infernus is under the earth, the Scripture saying, even unto the bottom of the lake. And again. 
k Idem in epist. ad Ephes. ca 4.  Inferiora terrarum infernus accipitur, ad quem Dominus noster saluatorque descendit. The lower parts of the earth are taken for Infernus, to which our Lord and Saviour descended. 
l Ibidem.  Quod autem Infernus in inferiore part terrae sit, Psalmista testatur. And that Infernus is in the lower part of the earth, the Psalmist testi●…ieth saying; The earth opened, and swallowed Dathan, and covered the congregation of Abiram. And in an other place we read, let death come upon them, and let them descend alive to Infernus. If you will place the souls of the Saints deceased in Christ below in the earth, then may you have some hold in jerom, that they are yet in Infernus; but if that be repugnant to the Scriptures, to the Fathers, to jeroms express words, and even to your own positions; why use you, or rather so openly abuse you jeroms speech against so main and manifest a truth, not distinguishing the time whereof he spoke, but confounding the old and new Testament together, to give place to your lame collections?  

m Defenc. pag. 166. li. 37.  Ruffinus upon Descendit ad Inferna, giveth this sense, Descendit in mortem, He submitted unto death.] If death had none other sense nor force, but the death of the body, your saying were somewhat, but since death for sin reigneth aswell in hell over the Soul, as in the grave over the body, the name of death doth not exclude Christ's descent to hell; and so much Ruffinus words will easily convince. 
n Ruffinus in Symbolum Apostol.  Eousque ille miserando descendit; usque quo tu peccando deiectus es. So far Christ of mercy descended, how far thou by sinning waist de●…ected. Now if we by sinning were in danger of none other but a bodily death, than Christ descended only to the grave; but if the desert of our sin tied us as guilty to the torments of hell, then Christ by Ruffinus confession so far descended, how far we were by God's justice dejected, that is to the place of condemnation for sin. And therefore Ruffinus doth not only knit these speeches together in the person of Christ, as expounding one the other. 
o Ibidem.  Eduxisti de Inferno animam meam, & de abysso terrae ●…erum adduxisti me; thou hast brought my soul from Infernus, (and) hast brought me back again from the deep of the earth: But of the devil he saith, 
p Ibidem.  Qui mortis habebat imperium, disruptis Inferni claustris, velut de profundo tractus traditur: he that had Rule of death, (was) drawn as it were out of the deep, the cloisters of Infernus being broken open. The place where the devil was, and whence he was drawn, when he was spoiled and triumphed by Christ, was not the separation of the Soul from the Body, which the devil hath not, but it was the deep of hell, which here is called Infernus.  

q Defenc. pag. 167. li. 1.  So that it is certain by all the Fathers generally, First, that Hades and Sheol are taken for the state of death common to the Souls of good and bad. Secondly, Christ went not into hell the place of the damned, as you hold, but to the habitation of the blessed deceased.] If I have not convinced both these collections to be false by the manifest Testimonies of the Fathers, (for out of them you gather these observations) than I desire no man's consent to any thing that I have said: but if you grossly mistake and misuse all the Father's names and speeches; then I trust the Reader will better consider what credit is to be given to your certainties; and give me leave to be shorter in slipping over your idle, presumptuous, vain crafts and false collections; which are almost all that is behind. A taste whereof if he will take, let him hear these brags of yours following.  

r Defenc. pag. 167. li. 22.  Thus your vain boasting of all the Fathers is but a bubble; So that if you consent (as you say) to be tried by all the Fathers, Greek and Latin; they quite overthrow you notwithstanding your great words. If your vain and shameless boasting were not by this time well known, I would give some fresh assault to these bulwarks of falsity and insolen●…; but the proofs being evident and precedent, which I leave to the Readers indifferent judgement, I will overskip this, and a great deal more of the same kind, as the bubbles or your vanity; and if ought be said to any purpose, I will refute that; otherw●…e I will bestow no more paper and ink on your wandering and wild conceits.  

s Defenc. pag. 167. li. 2●….  Only Austen doubtingly and waveringly differeth from all the rest; for thus he saith, I confess I have not yet found, that Inferi are named, where the just men's souls are at peace.] You might have done well to have learned of Austen this sober and modest course, not by vaunting and outfacing, but by plain and fair confessing, to show the ground of your opinion, as Austen doth of his. Wherein he differeth not from all the rest, as you confidently, yet most injuriously report of him: but in this he exactly and resolutely consenteth with them all (Tertullia's error still excepted) that after Christ's resurrection; 
t August. de civitate Dei li. 20. ca 1●….  Deinceps boni fideles prorsus Inferos nesciunt, Good Christians (dying) come not to Inferi at all. And as for the former opinion, that the godly deceased before Christ's death went ad Inferos, to places below in the earth, though not to torments, which is the stone that still you stumble at, and make it the very heart of all your defence, deceitfully applying that to the time since Christ's resurrection, which the Fathers ever intended and expressed to pertain to the time before Christ's coming; S. Austen though he yield so far to former writers, as to say, 
u Ibidem.  If it may seem t●… be believed without absurdity, yet he every where professeth, he could find no such use of the word Inferi in any place of the sacred Scriptures; and that Abraham's bosom, where the Saints did rest before Christ's death, was a part or skirt of hell, he utterly refuseth that, as no way consonant to the words of Christ in the Gospel. And therefore when he proposeth the other opinion with a condition, if it may be believed without absurdity; even there he retaineth his own resolution, that Abraham's bosom was in locis à tormentis impiorum remotissimis; in places most remote from the torments of the wicked; and to believe otherwise were an absurdity, as he concludeth in his 99 Epistle.  
Against Austin you object: 
x Defence pag. 160 li. 3.  First, that surely the ancients named the places for all deceased good and bad, Inferos: as they named the world, (where both wicked and good do live) Superos. Secondly, that Austen, (if he had well marked it) might have found even this, (which he saith he found not) in the Latin translation of the Scripture. 
y 〈◊〉 88  What man is there that shall deliver his soul from the hand of inferi, that is death? 
z Pag. 16●…. li. 3.  Where the soul being take●… properly for the soul, than Inferi is found applied to just men's souls deceased, as well as to the wicked: which Augustine might have observed. Were you masking, this might make mirth; but being in earnest, it is more than idle. What if Arnobius in respect of hell being in the earth beneath us, call us that live on earth, superos; those above; is that a proof that the godly deceased are called inferi? who knoweth not, that infra & supra are differences of place, which in divers respects may be diversly varied? To those that are in heaven, we are Inferi, that is beneath them, and in that reference to heaven, which is above us, Augustine himself doubteth not to call the earth Infernum. 
a August. in Psa●…. 85.  Ad hoc infernum missus est (filius Dei) nascendo, ad illud (inferius) moriendo. To this (earth) below was the Son of God sent, when he was borne, to that other place beneath (us) when he died. But if no special comparison of place be expressed, then Superi & Inferi, the Saints above, and the spirits beneath, are generally so called in regard of us, who dwell on earth, and speak on earth, & are by position of place in the midst, that is lower than the highest, and higher than the lowest. And because under us there are none living but those in hell, therefore Inferi, whom the Apostle calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, are spirits under the earth, whether men or devils. As for that other objection out of the Psalms, it is not only a bubble soon blown away, but a babble not worth the bringing. The translation of Tremelius and junius, to whom you most appeal for these matters, hath 
b In Psal. 98.  eripiat seipsum à sepulchro; shall he save himself from the grave? that is, can he keep himself that he shall not die? and where you take hold on the word soul, as if that must be either in the grave, which is absurd, or in the hand of Inferi, which is that you would have; your hasty head doth not perceive, that take the word soul, which way you will, either for the life of man, which is an usual speech in the Scriptures, or for the soul properly; neither of them doth steed you a rush. For no man can preserve his life from the grave, that he shall not die; neither can any man withstand the hand or power of death, that it shall not sever the soul from the body; since that is the ordinance of God against all men. Saint Austen giveth you a third sense, taking the soul there for the soul separate from the body, which is more than ever you would be able to prove, and yet that maketh nothing to your purpose. 
c August, in Psal. 88  The rest of the faithful, saith he, shall rise from the dead, and live for ever, and not see death; and yet can they not deliver their own souls from the hands of hell. He which delivered his own soul from the hands of hell, he hath delivered the souls of his faithful, they cannot deliver themselves. This S. Austen could observe, though he regarded none of your vain supposals.  
And where you say, 
d Defenc. pag. 168. li.  Austen himself elsewhere granteth the just in peace might be in infernus after death You might have observed the difference betwixt a condition and a position, which you do not; and therefore you wrong him the more in saying, that he granteth any such thing. He saith, 
e August de civitate De●… li. 20. ca 15.  Si non absurd credi videtur, if it seem to be believed without an absurdity; not affirming it might be believed without an absur ditie, but respecting it with a conditional, lest he should show himself over peremptory in condemning others, that were of that opinion. Otherwise his own assertion and conclusion are earnest enough. 
f Epistola 99  Non utique sinus ille Abrahae aliqua pars inferorum esse credenda est. The bosom of Abraham is not to be believed to be any part of inferi. 
g Ibidem.  In his ipsis tanti Magistri verbis, satis (ut opinor) apparet, non esse quandam partem & quasi membrum inferorum tantae illius felicitatis sinum. In these very words of so great a teacher (as Christ) it appeareth sufficiently, (as I think) that the bosom of so great felicity is not any part or member of hell. In Christ's descent to hell Saint Austen is more resolute. Of that he pronounceth. Satis constat, it is clear enough. Yea he putteth more weight unto it, and saith; For neither can the prophesy be contradicted, which said, thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor Peter's words by which he affirmeth, Christ loosed the sorrows of hell, wherein it was not possible he should be held. And so concludeth, who 
h Ibidem.  then but an infidel will deny, Christ was in hell? And again. 
i Ibidem.  Euidentia testimonia & insernum commemorant, & dolores. Evident testimonies (of the Scriptures) mention both hell, and the pains thereof. These be no conjectural inclinations, they be judicial assertions, whatsoever you say to the contrary.  

k Defenc. pag. 168. li. 13.  Fulgentius denieth not inferos to the godly deceased, nor that Christ was locally only with them in inferis. So that in saying he was where the wicked are tormented, he meaneth that in respect of the common place, which in the whole he calleth infernum.] here is a hole, where through your wit is wholly run, and not your wit alone, but your religion, learning, and conscience are run after. Plainer words than those of Fulgentius, I neither do, nor can speak any. (Christus) 
l Fulgentius ad Trasimundum li. 3.  illuc usque descendit, quousque homo separatus à Deo peccati merito cecidisset, id est ad infernum, ubi solebat anima peccatoris torqueri. Christ descended even thither, whither man severed from God by desert of sin was fallen, that is to infernus, where the soul of a sinner useth to be tormented. What doth your wisdom answer to this? He meaneth that in respect of the common place, which in the whole he calleth inf●…rnum.] Is there any one place common to the Saints in heaven, and to the damned in hell? You have learned belike of Parmenides the riddle-maker, that all is one; and because the world is but one, that heaven and hell make one common place. Whether fell man, I pray you, by the desert of sin, to heaven or to hell? not to heaven, I hope; for then man sinning should approach to God's Throne; who, Fulgentius saith, was severed from God. to hell then he fell: ergo Christ descended to hell by Fulgentius assertion, and that place, where the souls of sinners are wont to be tormenmented, he calleth Infernum; which if you can prove to be heaven, you shall do greater wonders, than M. Hugh Broughton can do. For he maketh but a great ditch betwixt heaven and hell. You fill up that ditch of M. Broughtons' digging, and say both hell and heaven are one place common to Saints and Devils. For Infernus is the singular number, and by the rules of Grammar, if any rules will hold you, must note but one place, in which if both the blessed and the damned are, than heaven and hell are both but one place. Again you far pass M. Broughtons' skill, in that he saith, they are much deceived, who think hell to be below in the earth, though Saint Paul distribute all reasonable creatures subjecteth to Christ's kingdom, into things 
m Phil. 2.  in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. You change the whole site of the world, and say heaven is below. For where insernus is derived from infra, which is below, if heaven be called infernus, then surely heaven is below; and then must the Apostle recall his error in saying, 
n Colos. 3.  seek the things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God; he should have said by your doctrine, seek the things which are below; where the souls of the wicked are tormented; for that is heaven with you. But if at your next exercise you should pray for your Auditory to come to infernus, where the wicked are punished, I win they would think you more mad, then M. Broughton is. Howbe it with this one answer you give the lie aswell to Prophets, as Apostles. For where David saith to God, 
o Psal. 30.  Thou hast brought my soul out of infernus, that cannot be by your rules, since heaven and hell make but one place, and the earth being in the midst of them must needs be one place with both extremes, and have the same name with both. So that David's soul wheresoever it was, was not out of Infernus. Again where he saith in the person of Christ, 
p Psal. 16.  Thou wilt not leave my soul in infernus; that is false by your doctrine, who teach that Christ and all his Saints deceased are yet in a common place with the damned, the whole being called Infernus. And where before you were very angry, That I said you made ascending to be descending, and heaven to be hell; to decline the force of Fulgentius words, you fairly answer, that Christ's descending to infernus, where the souls of sinners are tormented, was his going to heaven, because they both are but one place common to good and bad, and the whole hath one name, which is Infernus.  
A special spleen you bear against S. Austin, & disgrace him you would, if you could tell how, that you might be freed from the weight of his judgement in matters of faith: but you want both wit & learning for such an enterprise, & therefore you resist his opinion with more lies than lines. 
q Defenc. pag. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. 7.  Augustine's differing from you, you say is to little purpose.] and why? [
r li. 1●….  First because it is contrary to all the ancient Fathers before him, with him and since him.] here are three lies in one line, all the Fathers before him, with him, and since him do not dissent from him, & with you not one of them consenteth. [
s li 20.  Secondly we must not esteem his saying by the Latin word inferi, but by the Original Sheol & hades, which are more against him, as before I have showed.] Though he did follow the Latin translation then received in the Church where he lived; yet neither the Hebrew, nor the Greek words are against him. For you shall never show that Sheol or Hades throughout the Scripture are taken for any good condition or receptacle of the dead, which is Augustine's a●…rtion of the word Inferi; much less that either of those words, Sheol or Hades, do any where in the Scriptures import the place or state of the blessed souls, which is your error, and which you have no way proved, though you have spent much paper & pains to make some show for it. [
t 〈◊〉 22.  Thirdly it is waveringly delivered and with doubt in himself, yea contrary to himself, as I have showed.] here are three lies more in another line, besides those that swarmed in the midst. Austin doth deliver his opinion constantly, consonantly to himself; and you have showed no such thing as you pretend; but the contrary is evident to him that will but either peruse what I have said, or will but review the manner of his setting down that opinion upon the eighty five Psalm, where he saith, al●…m etiam opinionem dicam, I will set down another opinion, or the opinion of others.  

u Defence pag. 108. li. 24.  Fourthly, he seeketh to maintain it erroneously: for he giveth this reason and end of Christ's going to hell; (the place of the damned) that he might deliver some of the damned out of hell torments; which most strange conceit of his yourself conf●…e rightly.] The end of Christ's descending to hell is by the Fathers confessed to be double; the one to destroy death, and the Ruler thereof, even the devil; the other, to deliver all his Elect from the power, danger, and fear of hell. The Scriptures do not conc●…le, that Christ by his death and resurrection wrought these things. 
x Hebr. ●….  By death (Christ) de●…royed him, that had the rule of death, even the devil, and delivered all them, which for f●…re of death were all their l●…fe long subject to bondage. Rising again, he 
y Acts 2.  loosed the sorrows of death, 
z Coloss. 2.  spoiled Principalities and powers, and made an open snew of them, triumphing over them in his own person. Had Christ died and not risen, we had 
a 1. Cor. 15. vers. 18.  perished, as Paul confesseth. The conquering then of hell and Satan, and the delivering of us from the power and ●…are of either, though this were purchased by Christ's obedience unto death, yet was it e●…ected and performed by his resurrection from the dead. And so much the Council of Alexandria in their letters to Nestorius profess, which the general Council of Ephesus repeated and allowed, and the fifth general 
c E●… 5 Synod Constantino●…ol. s●…ssio. 6.  Counc●…ll 
b Inter Acta Conc●…ij 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  of Constantinople afterwards confirmed: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Christ rose to life the third day, having spoiled hades (hell). So jerom: 
d Hiero. in Psal. 15.  Propterea illuc (in infernum) descendit, ut Electos suos exinde eijceret, & Diabolum ligaret. Christ descended to hell for this cause, that he might cl●…ere his Elect thence, and bind the devil. This end of Christ's de●…cending to hell and hades to deliver not only the dead, but the living from thence, the Father's Greek and Latin every where confess. The Christians in Tertullian say, as I have formerly proved notwithstanding your idle exceptions; 
e Tertull. de Anima. ca 55.  In hoc Christus inferòs adijt, ne nos adiremus. Christ to this end went to hell, that we should not come thither. Athanasins: Christ descending to hades, 
f Athanas. in illud omnia mi●…i tradita sunt.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, brought us back. 
g Idem de Salutari aduent●… Ch●…sti.  Nostram detentionem relaxans, losing our detention (there). He speaketh of himself and others then living, which we●…e not in hades; but must have gone thither, if Christ had not freed them from coming there. For of the souls departed he saith: 
h Ibidem.  In the soul of (him that was) God, the power of death was loosed, his raising from hades was performed; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and declared to the souls (deceased). Hilary: 
i Hi●…ar. de Trinitate. li. 2.  Christ's dèscent to hell salus nostra est, is our sal●…ation. So Nazianzen: 
k Nazianz. in Christo patient.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Thou wilt deliver all, (from hades) being only free thyself. As jerom likewise saith: 
l H●…ro in Os●…ae ca 13.  Liberavit omnes Dominus, quando anima eius descendit in infernum; The Lord delivered all, when his soul descended into hell: meaning all Christ's Elect both living and dead. So Fulgentius expresseth this point: 
m Fulgentius ad Trasimundum li. 3.  As dying for us, Christ made us all to die with him, so losing the sorrows of hell, omnes fideles ab ijsdem doloribus liberavit, he delivered all the faithful from the same (fears and) sorrows. Which Ambrose calleth mankind. 
n Ambros. in cap. 3. Epistola ad Galat.  Descendens ad inferos genus humanum liberavit. Christ descending to hell delivered (thence) mankind. With these S. Austen agreeth, and saith: 
o August. in Psal. 85.  Ideo ille usque ad infernum pervenit, ne nos maneremus in infern●…. Therefore Christ went even unto hell, that we should not remain in hell. Austen knowing this end of Christ's descending to hell, why should he not say, Christ went thither to deliver those, 
p Idem epistola. 99  quos esse soluendos occultá nobis suá justitia iudicabat, whom in his justice secret to us he thought fit to be delivered? Since than there are so sufficient causes acknowledged by the Fathers and by Austen himself of Christ's descent to hell, which you can not refute; what reason hath it, that his main opinion of Christ's spoiling hades and hell, approved by so many Fathers and by Counsels provincial and general, should be false, though in the manner thereof he did somewhat vary from the rest? which yet I neither do, nor need grant, if we take his own exposition elsewhere; that 
q Idem in Psal. 85.  there they were not, but because such were their deserts, that there they had been, unless they had been holpen, they are rightly said to be delivered from thence, whither they were not suffered to come by Christ their deliverer.  

r Defenc. pag. 169 li. 2.  As for Austin's opposing against this our sense of Hades, saying, In Grac â linguâ origo nominis, quo appellantur Inferi, ex eo quod nihil suave habeant reson●…re perhibetur: it showeth his mistaking more, yea the very ground of all his mistaking, as I think.] Though Austin's skill in the Greek tongue was not so great, that he could readily 
s August. in proaemio li. 3. de Trinitat●….  read and understand the writings of the Grecians, as himself confesseth; yet wanting that, he kept himself to the best and most approved translation of the Latin; and got so much knowledge at length, that he could compare the original Greek with the translation, and see the difference betwixt them, as is evident in many 
t Epist. 59 78. 89 de Trinit. li. 1. ca 6 quest. s●…per Exodum ●…. 3. 28. 32. & sapius alibi.  places of his works. The derivation, which you so much deprave, was made by many Grecians as well as by Saint Austen, and therefore he may the better be excused in joining with them. Eustathius the learned expounder of Homer, saith that many derived Hades without contraction, and did not subscribe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 under the first letter, as you have it, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: but 
* Eustathius in 1. Liados' fol. 13.  affirm hades to be derived from hêdo by a kind of antiphrasis, because no man delighteth or rejoiceth therein: & so Hesychius the great Grammarian witnesseth, that Ades in the Greek tongue doth signify 
x Hesychij Dictionar. in verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, unsweet or unpleasant: and Hades hath his h of aspiration from the Attic, and not from the common Greek tongue, as Eustathius noteth. So that there is no cause why you should so much revel at Saint Austin's ignorance in the Greek tongue, as you do, he followed whom he liked, and yet notwithstanding he wanted the perfection of the Grecke tongue, he goeth righter to the nature and force of Infer●… and Hades, than you and your pa●…ners with your glut of Greek. For Austen saith two things of Inferi, which you would feign impugn, if you could tell how: the one is. 
y August. de Genesi ad literam li. 12. ca 34.  Inferi eo quod infra sunt, Latin appellantur, Inferi are in Latin so called, because they are below: The other: Sicut secundum corpus inferiora sunt omnia graviora, ita secundum spiritum inferiora sunt omnia tristiora. As all bodily things, the lower their (natural) place, the weightier they are; so all spiritual things the lower, the gri●…uouser they are. You against all reason, and learning contradict both these: for you say that heaven is infernus, which by force of the word must needs be below; and you bring death, which is a most grievous thing, into heaven; though it be the highest place and state, that men can or shall have. Besides you stick not to alter your authors, Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Ambrose, whom you bring for your pretence; and where they talk of an innisible place or prison, you turn their words to an invisible state common to good and bad. Irenaeus in that place saith nothing of Hades; Ambrose saith, the heathen were of opinion, that souls loosed from their bodies went to aides, a place not seen, which the Latins call infernus. Tertullian saith, 
z Tertull de anima ca 58.  Carcerem illum, quod evangelium demonstrat, inferos intelligimus. That prison which the Gospel mentioneth, we understand to be inferi. What is this to heaven or paradise, or to the state of blessed souls departed this life?  

a Defenc. pag. 169. li. 17.  (Hades) signifieth sometimes darkness, or a place of darkness, not that the state of all the dead generally was thought to be in darkness, but because death took them out of this cheerful worlds light, and covered them (as it were) with darkness and oblivion from the world's sight and knowledge.] You would feign shift off the description of Hades made by Greek Fathers, which by no means can agree to heaven or paradise; but your shifts are all of one sort, that is devoid of learning, truth, and sense. The Greek writers of all ages that were Christians, acknowledge Hades to be full of fearful and eternal darkness. As Nazianzen. 
b N●…zianzen. in Christo patient.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Christ coming to the house of Hades all full of mist and darkness. And chrysostom. 
c Chrysost. de R●…surrect. s●…m. 7.  The Lord descending into the dark mist of Hades. Eustathius. 
d Fustath. in 1. lit●…dos.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Hades is a dark place under earth. Nicetas Choniates. 
e Nicetas Choniat. in Bal.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The dark and dreadful tab●…nacles of Hades. Nicephorus Gregoras 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 
f Gregoras hist. R●…ma. li. 8.  We walked in gross darkness, as they say of those, that destend to Hades. Phavorinus. 
g Phavorinus in verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Hades is a plac●… void of light, and full of eternal darkness. These and the like testimonies when you cannot avoid; you answer, that the souls of the godly are taken out of this cheerful world's light, and covered as it were with darkness and oblivion, from the world's sight, and knowledg●…: as if this world were cheerful light, and the light of heaven must for your pleasure be counted darkness, or the sight of Christ and his Saints might be called (as it were) oblivion, that we should take more joy and comfort in the faces of mortal men, then of the Lord jesus. This conceit would well become him, that had no heaven but this world; otherwise to change the natures and names of earthly and heavenly things upside down, and to di●…grace eternal bliss with the not●… of darkness and oblivion, preferring temporal ease or honour before it, as cheerful light; this is fit for a Pagan, but not for a Christian.  

h Defenc. pag. 170. li. 27.  I come from the ancients to the later learned writers: that we may not neglect their judgement in this q●…stion, 
i li 31.  who were observed before, yet because you let them go without saluting them, they shall be noted once more, that I may press you with them. As you have handled the ancients, so do you the later writers: you do not, or will not understand them, but keep on your perverting of these, as you did of the other. I could easily have saluted them, if leisure had then served to me to discuss all your untoward assertions and allegations, which because it did not, you will once more press me with them: Well then let us hear them.  

k Defenc. pag. 170. li. 35. 〈◊〉  Bucere saith, the Scripture no where speaketh or hades of infernum, but as being common as well to the blessed as to the damned.] When you allege but little, you should allege 
Had●…s with 〈◊〉 writers is the grave or hell.  it right, & not add what pleaseth you, to other men's words. In this place which you bring out of Bucere, he maketh no mention of hades at all, that is your interlacing; & by Infernus he meaneth the g●…aue, which is common to good & bad. His own words are. 
l Bucerus in 27 Matth. verse.  Quid hîc sit ad infernum descendere, aliud quam recondi corpus sub terra. What is here descending to infernus, but the body to be covered under earth. The reason whereof he giveth; 
m Ibidem.  Sheôl enim pro quo in Scriptures n●…s fere infernus legimus, sepulchr●… significat. Sheol, for which in the Scriptures we read almost every where infernus, signifieth the grave. And so he there interpreteth himself. 
n Ibidem.  Sanctos qui in inferno erant, id est dormiebant corpore in pulvere terrae. The Saints which were in infernus, that is, which slept with their bodies in the dust of the earth. And therefore that which followeth and is by you cited, 
o Defenc. pag. 171. li. 1.  By this which we confess that the Lord descended to infernus, we must understand that the Lord joined himself in spirit to the spirits of the Saints deceased; that I say is added as a consequent to Christ's death, and not as the proper signification of the phrase. For it were more than absurd by your leave, that one and the same word, which he saith signifieth the grave, should properly note the burying of the body in earth below, and the ascending of the spirit to heaven on high, though in all the Saints the one is performed as well as the other. And where Bucere seemeth to impugn the sense, which the fathers gave of this Article; as his reasons be none, so his words in no wise man's judgement can oversway theirs.  

p Defenc. pag. 171. li. 3.  Peter martyr, that Christ descended to inferos (or hades) signifieth nothing else, but that he did under go the same state, as other souls do that depart this life.] Why stop you there? are you blear eyed, that you cannot see what presently followeth; or short wound, that you can read no farther? the very next words will plainly show with what sincerity and fidelity you be conversant in old and new writers. Peter Martyrs words are these. 
q Petri Martyris loci come. in Exposition●… Symboli.  Eundem subijt statum, quem reliquae animae à corpore seiunctae experiuntur, quae aut in Sanctorum societatem coaptantur, aut cum damnatorum spiritibus in aeternum exitium detruduntur. Et vero una atque altera tum piorum spirituum, tum eorum qui damnati essent, societas, animae Christi praesentiam persensit. The soul of Christ did undergo the same state, (by going to the same place) which the rest of the souls severed from the body do try, that are either admitted into the fellowship of the saints, or cast into everlasting destruction with the spirits of the damned. For both the one and the other society, aswell of godly souls, as of those that were damned, perceived the presence of Christ's soul. The soul then of Christ by Peter Martyrs judgement clean contrary to Bucers, went aswell to the place of the damned; as to the seats of the blessed, and either society perceived the presence of his soul severed from his body.  

r Defenc. pag. 171. li. 6.  Mollerus, (touching Sheol, Hades, and infernum ascribed to Christ) saith they do signify but that Christ died: and to be no more than if he should say in the Psalm, therefore I rejoice because I know, that although I die, yet I shall rise to life again.] Of Sheol Mollerus saith, Saepe pro sepulchro dic●…tur, it is often taken for the grave, which no man denieth. Of hades and infernus he speaketh not a word. And albeit he be of opinion, that Christ's descent to hell, sat is certò evinci non potest ex hoc loco, cannot clearly and fully be evinced out of this place of the Psalm, by reason (as he thinketh) the words may be wrested to divers senses; yet touching Christ's descent to hell he saith; 
s Mollerus in Psal. 16.  We understand that Article of the Creed simply and without allegory, and we believe that Christ truly descended to the lower parts of the earth, as Paul speaketh Ephes. 4. and his victory he would show to the Devils after a special manner, to strike perpetual terrors into them, and to free us from the fear of their tyranny.  

t Defenc. pag. 171. li. 10.  Bullinger (speaking of Christ and indifferently of the godly,) showeth that to go to infernus is to go to Abraham's bosom, that is into heaven, not into hell. And that inferi and hades do mak●… difference only between the living and the dead, and nothing else. Bullinger bringeth four senses of that Article of the Creed, Christ descended to Inferna. The first, that is all one with, he was buried; which exposition he saith others mislike. The second is Austin's, who in his Epistle to Dardanus writeth; 
u Bulling. serm. 7. de Symbolo Apostol.  The Lord descended to Tartarus, but felt there no torment. The third, to which he more inclineth, Long simplicius videbimur hunc articulum intelligere si senserimus virtutem mortis Christi dimanasse etiam ad defunctos, & his profuisse. We shall seem far more simply to understand this article, if we think that the force of Christ's death pierced even to the dead, and profited them. The fourth is, Vel certe per inferos & inferna intelligimus, non locum certè destinatum impijs, sed defunctos fideles. Or else by inferi & inferna we understand not the place of punishment appointed for the wicked, but the faithful deceased. Here are all four senses. He liketh best, that the virtue and force of Christ's death descended and was showed both to the blessed and to the damned; as Saint Peter 
x Ibidem.  telleth us, that the Lord went in spirit and preached to the spirits, that were inobedient and kept in prison. Nimirum innotuit & his just a damnationis ex morte Christi sententia. For even to the damned appeared the sentence of their condemnation to be just by the death of Christ. This he confesseth Christ did in spirit. If by Christ's spirit he meant Christ's soul, he expressly refuteh your conceits. If he mean, the force of Christ's divine spirit descended, he hath Athanasius, Cyril, and others opposite against him. Athanasius saith: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 
y Athanas. de salu●…ri aduent●… Christi.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; How could the word (or Son of God) descend to Hades? And again: 
z Ibid. de Incarnate. Christi.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; How could he descend with his Godhead open and uncovered? 
a Ibidem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Neither could hades endure the access of his Godhead uncovered. And so cyril: 
b Cyrill. de fide ad Thesdosium.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Neither in any wise may we say, that the Godhead of the only begotten was brought from (hades or) the dens under the earth: for that was not worthy of wondering, if the Son of God were not left in hades. Exactly they teach, that the Deity of Christ, or his divine spirit could by no means be said to descend to hades, or to return from thence, but it must be verified of his human soul, which revealed itself, and the virtue of his death as well to the damned, as to the blessed.  

c Defence pag. 167. li. 13.  Lavater saith Hades in Gre●…ke is a general word for the condition of the dead both in torments and in peace.] Lavater saith of hades as he doth of Sheól, that 
d Lavater. bo●…il. 133. in 31. cap. Ezechiel.  Non solum locum Damnatorum, sed S●…pulchrum vel statum mortuorum passim in Scriptures signisicat, it signifieth not only the place of the damned, but also the grave or state of the dead. And so doth Hades with the septuagint, who always render Sheôl by that word. Now the grave or state of the dead (the one being an exposition of the other) reacheth not to the Souls of the godly (which are not in their graves) but to their bodies; and hath in it corruption, silence, oblivion and privation of all things in this life, from which the grave excludeth them, be they never so blessed. And so that rest, which Lavatere nameth, is not the joy of heaven; but rest from the labours of this life, which our bodies attain in the grave, specially when the Soul enjoyeth her eternal and happy rest; which the wicked want, that are adjudged to the place of torments.  

e Defenc. pag. 171. li. 15.  Tremellius saith: This Hebrew word Sheôl doth signify any station or state of the dead in general in very many places of Scripture, and hell it may sometime signify, but by a figure Synecdoche. Tremellius hath been once afore alleged and answered. He doth not say that Sheol signifieth Heaven or Paradise, but the Stations of the dead he maketh to be Sepulchrum or infernum, the grave for dead bodies, or Hell for the dead Souls; to both which Sheol is a common name, and sometimes importeth the one, sometimes the other, and sometimes both. When both are intended, the word hath his full force; when only one, the figure Synecdoche is used as he thinketh. But what is this to your purpose? show that ever Tremellius translateth Sheol by Heaven or Paradise, and then you sa●…●…mewhat, though I be not bound to Tremellius authority, farther than he maketh fair and clear proof of his assertion. Otherwise this is a plain con●…ction of your falsehood, if you pretend by mistaking Tremellius words, that Sheol signi●…eth as well Heaven, as Hell and the grave; and when you be asked for an example of that signification in the Scriptures, you can produce no one place in the whole Bible, where Tremellius himself hath so translated Sheol. Of ●…nius I have formerly spoken; he was very learned, but he took hold of Tertullia's error repugnant to all the Fathers, as I have showed before. He likewise mistook Chrysostom: for Chrysostom supposeth Abraham to be in hades before Christ's resurrection, but not after. Irenaeus saith the souls of Christ's Disciples have an invisible place defined them of God, but he expresseth neither name nor site thereof. What proof make any of these, that heaven or paradise is called infernus or hades? or that there is a state of the dead in one place common to good and bad, as you defend out of Fulgentius?  

f Defenc. pag. 171. li. 25.  The rather this sens●… of hades we are to acknowledge, because it hath been the ancient phrase and common vs●… of speech before Christianity, which sufficiently ●… showed before out of Homer, Plato, and others.] The heathen writers fitted their phrases to their heathen errors; and therefore except you be disposed to revive their profane fancies of Infernus and Hades, which they thought common to good and bad, you have no reason to follow their phrase either in Hades or Inferi. What hath heaven or paradise to do with Pluto's kingdom under earth, where the Pagan Poets and Philosophers placed both torments for the wicked and pleasant fields for the godly? And therefore your idle and fruitless discourse of almost three whole leaves tending only to smooth up the unchristian follies and phrases of Pagans, I omit as not worth the answering; and as you refer them to the judgement of the learned and wise Reader, so do I; not doubting but if he be learned or wise, he will not suffer you to expound the Scriptures by fabulous Poets, or erroneous Philosophers, altogether strangers to the Christian religion; but will keep you rather to the rules and directions of the holy Ghost, whose sense is the safest and surest way to measure matters of faith. Only I will touch two or three of your foolish oversights and bold presumptions, lest my silence should breed you confidence in your conceits.  

g Defenc. pag. 172. li. 22.  The holy Apostles do teach the heavenly truth, with the very words and Grammar of the heathen men: whereunto that serveth which is written of them; we every man hear them speak in our own tongues and languages, wherein we were borne.] Why speak you of Grammar, which is common to all professions, and skip the signification and meaning of these words, which are proper to Christians? who though they use many words abused by Pagans to ignorant and false apprehensions, yet retain they such sense of those words, as the truth of God prescribeth, and not as Pagans and Idolaters imagined. And to whom did the Apostles speak in this 
h Acts 2.  place which you cite, to profane and heathen men, or to jews, that were well acquainted with Moses and the Prophets, though they were borne in divers places of the world, and understood the languages of many other nations? the Scripture saith even of this multitude then assembled to hear the Apostles speak with divers tongues; 
i Acts 2. v. 5.  There were dwelling at jerusalem jews, men Religious, (or fearing God) of every nation under heaven. Else to what end did Peter allege to them the Prophets joel and David, if they knew the writings of neither? but that whole Sermon of Peter proveth, that they were familiarly conversant in the Scriptures; and therefore the Apostles speaking strange languages so tempered their words and sense, as men trained up in Moses might well understand their meaning. And when the Apostles spoke or wrote in other tongues besides the Hebrew, trow you they retained the same sense and understanding in every word, that the Pagans did, who knew nothing of Christ? how many words are there, which the writings of the Evangelists and Apostles turn from their general and usual signification amongst the heathen, to express things proper to Christian religion? shall evangelium, fides, spiritus, ecclesia, episcopus, diaconus, presbyter, martyr, diabolus, and many such import no more with Christians than they did with Pagans? who ever was so blind, that ever read any thing? Hades then the apostles might & did use for a place under earth, where the wicked after this life were tormented; so far they agreed with the use of the word formerly received: but where unbelievers thought the souls of the godly were likewise in the same place under the earth, though in more rest or in some pleasures, such as natural men could device; the Apostles and Evangelists instructed no doubt by their Master, and by his example correcting that error, named the place, where the souls of the faithful were received after death, 
k Luke 23.  Paradise, and an 
l 2. Cor. 5.  heavenly habitation. And where the jews used Sheol fo●… all that was under the earth, were it the grave for dead bodies, or hell for wicked soul●…s; the new Testament distinguishing hades from death, and making the one a consequent to the other in the wicked, proveth hades there to be taken only for the 
m Luke 16.  place of torment after this life.  

n Defenc. pag. 172. li. 36.  I thought that those few all●…gations which I brought out of Plato, Homer and Plutark for the Greek, & of the Latins for the Latin would have sufficed to cause you not to deny so clear and manifest a truth. 
o Pag. 173. li. 7.  That hades with them did signify the world of souls without any limitation (in the very word itself) either of state or place.] Had the Pagans any hades, which they thought was in no place? or were the souls of good and bad in no state? do not the very rules of Grammar expressed in every Lexicon, require necessarily, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 every where used by Greek writers in verse and in prose after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and such like, should be supplied with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or some such word importing a place or house before it can be excused from false Greek? how then are you so ignorant or impudent (choose which you will) as to say that hades is the world of souls without limitation of place or state? have you forgotten what Eustathius saith of the very word itself? 
p Eustath. in 1. Iliadoes  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: Hades is a dark place under the earth. And Phavorinus? 
q Phavori. in verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Hades is a Region without light. Or what Lucian reporteth of all the people, who were Grecians, that persuaded by Homer, hesiod & the rest of the Poets, took Hades to be 
r Lucia. de luctu.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a place under the earth, deep, great, and dark? If the word then of itself import a place under the earth, and that deep and dark, what truth is there in your words, or what force in your allegations; which prove nothing against any thing that I said; nor for your new made world of souls without limitation of place or state?  

s Defenc. pag. 173. li. 15.  The common Epithet of hades is hades pandocheus, hades receiving all both good and bad.] And what then? was hades therefore either not under the earth, or not a place of darkness, because all men good and bad after death by the Pagans opinion, went to hades? if hades withal your profane writers (save once in a special conceit of Socrates) were below in the earth, and a dwelling in darkness; then doth the word itself bear in it a limitation of place below under the earth, not above in heaven, and a state in darkness, not in light. Against this speaketh not one of your authors, whom here you huddle most idly, not regarding what I admit or reject. That which I say, they confess with one consent, as I have 
t Conclus. pa. 369. 371.  elsewhere showed; & if those testimonies were not sufficient, you might have ten times as many. But to make short work Clemens Alexandrinus shall let you see, how peevishly you impugn my assertion. He allegeth out of Diphilus an ancient comical Poet, as followeth; 
u Clemens mateo●…. li. 5. ex Diphilo.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. In hades we resolve there are two ways, on for the just, the other for the wicked. Howbeit the earth doth cover them both. Yourself is a witness against yourself, that to this place (Hades) 
x Defenc. pag. 173. li. 19  come not the wicked only, but the noblest and best also. Now where this place was in their opinion to which all come after death, if you doubt, Homer telleth you, it was 
y Homer. Odysscae li. 24.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. In the house of hades under the dens (or darkness) of the earth. Theognis saith in like words, 
z Theognidis gnomae.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. They go to the house of hades under the dens (or closerts) of the earth. Mimnermus saith 
a Mimnermus de ●…ita quod brcuis sit.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. He goeth to hades under the earth. Euripides. 
b E●…ipides in 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Under the earth to hades there being. Sophocles. 
c Sophocles in ●…ace Flagell.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. They come to the closerts of the God below. Aristophanes. 
d Ariscoph. 〈◊〉 Rani●….  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I will go with speed to hades below. So that your great Masters of the Greek tongue, if ever you saw them or read them, exactly resolve against you, that your hades pandocheus, whither all go both good and bad, is under the earth, and so can no way be proportioned to heaven or paradise, which are far above the stars of heaven, and are habitations of light and bliss; where your hades of the blessed, in the opinion of Pagans and Christians, was a place of darkness, though mixed with ease and comfort as they supposed. And touching the Latin Inferi, of which you seem to make such account by pretence of Cicero's words, but without all cause; I reply with the words of Lactantius, whom the Christians called their Cicero. 
e I actant. de falsa religion. li. 2. ca 2.  Nihil terra inferius, & humilius, nisi mors & inferi. Nothing is lower and base than the earth, but death and inferi. And because Hen: Iac: is become of late so devout a Patron of Cicero's, that he may not suffer his Paganish errors to be reproved; and is angry that any man taketh his beedleship from him, let him read but the next chapter of Lactantius against Cicero by name, and he shall see what honour is to be yielded to heathen Idolaters against the truth.  

f Defenc. pag. 173. li 27.  Homer describeth, Tartarus to be so much beneath hades as heaven is from the earth.] What if Hades or hell be exceeding deep; is that a proof that the top thereof is no part of Hades, because the bottom is far beneath it? Are not the parts of heaven 
Tartarus a part of hades with the Poets.  infinitely one above another, and yet all are heaven? In my father's house, saith our Saviour, are many mansions; and yet they all are but one house. Though then the Poet feign that Hades hath in it deep pits; yet all is contained in the general name of Hades, specially since both Pagans and Christians confess, that men are punished in Hades, and not under Hades. justine the Martyr allegeth out of Philemon. 
g justinus de Mornar●…hta D●….  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. There is judgement in Hades. Theodoretus saith of Plato: 
h Theodoret. s●…rmo. 11. de fine & iud. cio.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Many times he affirmeth places of punishment in Hades. Cydonius saith generally. 
i Cydonius de morte contemnenda.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; that there is vengeance in Hades for offences here committed; not only the consent of all wise men; but the equity of God's justice approveth this opinion. The Gospel calleth Hades 
k Luke 16.  a place of torments. Yourself all this while have maintained Hades to be a place as well of rest as of punishment; that is of both at least. And would you now with a Poetical fiction or comparison strike out all, that you and others have said, and appoint punishments not in, but under Hades? Poets have their special fancies of Tartarus, and therein agree not one with another. hesiod saith; 
l Hesiod. in Theogoni●….  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The dungeon of Tartarus is so far under the earth, as heaven is above the earth. Virgil saith,  

m Virgil. Aeneid. 6.  Tartarus ipse bis patet in praeceps tantum. Tartarus is twice as deep, as heaven is high. And though Homer were blind, yet he never intended to make Tartarus no part, but the lowest part of Hades. And therefore he placed it deep under the higher hades, where dead bodies are, which hesiod called the earth. For Hades is common as well to the bodies buried, as to the souls received under the earth. And therefore your citing Sophocles and Aeschylus using Hades for the grave, where our body's rest, is an answer to that which you bring out of Homer, and an heaping up of matter no way pertinent to your purpose. For think you that the grave hath no limitation of place? why then are you so copious in things not doubted, & wholly speechles●…e in that which you should prove?  
With as little skill (you say) 
n Defenc. pag. 174. li. 3.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the words of Orpheus are to be construed together and not separately, as I read them; but why, can you tell? What shall become of the conjunction 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, between them, if the construction must be aither aides as you set it? the interpreter, a man well learned, doth render it thus in Latin. O Rex caeli & inferni, O King of heaven and of hell. And the conjunction 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is often copulative with the Poets, and standeth for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as your Lexicons will teach you. Besides Orpheus' purpose is to confess him, whom devils do tremble at, and Angels do fear, as his words presently following do declare. And therefore his meaning was rather to celebrate the Lord of all, that is of heaven and hell; sea & land; then of part.  

o Defence pag. 174 li. 13. & 15.  You expressly collect and confess (page 371.) that within Pluto's kingdom under the earth, which they call Hades, as well the places and pleasures for the good, as the prisons and punishments for the bad, are in their conceit prepared & settled.] That the Pagans so thought, I do not deny, yet they never called Hades heaven, as you do, but confessed heaven to be on high over their heads; where the Gods immortal were as they supposed, not under the earth where hades was. And can you be so sottish as to say I contradict myself, because I vouch they limited hades to a place even under the earth, and to darkness in respect of the light of the Sun, which we here enjoy? Again (you confess) 
p Pag. 174. li. 18.  Hades with them was the Ruler or place of souls, were they in rest o●… pain.] Were you ever apprentice to learn to lie, or have you this facility by nature? You can not touch a place which you do not falsify. I said, with them (speaking of Infidels)  

q Conclu pag. 337. li. 9  Hades was the Ruler or place of souls, that were beneath under the earth, were they in rest, or in pain. How is this repugnant either to myself, or to the truth? (
r Defenc. pag. 174. li. 20.  You make a strange answer, that Christian Religion will assure, this place must needs be hell. What that place where some good men's souls deceased are in rest? Is this hell? Is it hell in Christian Religion? who then will henceforth care for hell, if some souls have rest and pleasures in hell?] Know you not who rideth you, when you break your spurs on a bench, and think you be on horseback? That hades is beneath under the earth, as the Pagans confessed, and must needs be hell, (since Christian religion acknowledgeth no place under the earth for souls deceased, besides hell) I avouched: what then? what fault findeth your mastership therewith? are any there in rest, you ask? The Pagans so dreamed; and therefore I say, with them it was so; that is, they supposed it to be so; but Christian Religion, I replied, assureth us, there is no place under the earth for souls, but only hell. Where are now your quick & thick punctilios & easy hell that you so plea withal? The Pagans were of that mind, if you list to be one of them, you may hope for rest in hell: but Christian religion, to which I appealed, assureth us that it is a place of torment. Cannot your heavy head discern, when I report and refute Pagan's opinions, and when I propose points of Christian religion?  

s Defenc. pag. 174. li. 24.  But you say also, that those heathen Greeks did think this place of souls was under the earth. It is true they thought so indeed: and it was their error.] Then have you all this while outfaced the truth, when you derived from them a world of souls without limitation of place; and your exposition of the Creed according to their sense must needs infer, that Christ's soul after death descended under the earth, for there is hades by the main consent of the heathen greeks, as you now confess. And if you place heaven or paradise (where the souls of the righteous now are) under the earth to uphold your Greek conceits; you shall deserve a garland in your new made hades, but I dare promise you no rest in your heaven under earth, except you restore it to the place where God set it, that is above us, and not beneath us.  
That Hades was the proper name of a person, and secondly of the place, 
t Pag. 175. li. 2.  this is not material, nor to any purpose: 
u Pag. 174. li. 34.  yet it is questionless utterly untrue.] Is it utterly untrue, that the Pagan Poets (for of them I speak) took Hades chiefly for the ruler of the dead, and in that respect called his kingdom under the earth, also Hades? I omit what Diodorus Siculus reporteth as well of antiquity as of the Poets, that they took 
x Diodorus Siculus li. 5.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades (the third son of Saturnus) to be the inventor of graves and funerals, which was the cause that he was thought to be the God of the dead, 
y Ibidem.  Antiquity attributing to him the beginning and care of these things. To go beyond the surmises of the Grecians, who took their learning and antiquities from the Egyptians, as appeareth by Orpheus & Homer's journeys thither to increase their knowledge: the wise men amongst the Chaldeans, called with them Magi, who were far more ancient than the Egyptians as Aristotle and others witness, taught two chief authors of all things; 
z Diogen●… Laerti●… in Pro●…mio.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, A good God, and a bad spirit, & the good was called Zeus or Oromasdes; the other was named Hades or Aremanios. And to this give testimony Theopompus, Eudoxus, Hernippus, ancient writers among the Grecians, besides Aristotle, who concurreth with them; and Plutarch, who saith, 
a Plutarch. de Iside & Osiride.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, this is the opinion of the most and the wisest. Yea Zoroastres himself was of that opinion, who lived some thousands of years before the battle of Troy, as Plutarch writeth, and is taken for Cham the son of Noah by our Historiographers. 
Plinij natural. hist. li. 3. ca 10.  Pliny maketh him elder than Moses by many thousands of years. Show me now as ancient testimonies, that the place was called Hades, as I show you, that the person was so named, and I will yield. If you can not, prate not so presumptuously, that questionless this is utterly untrue.  
To my assertion, there is no one place in truth common to all souls departed this life, but some are in heaven, and some are in hell, you answer: 
b Defence pag 175. li. 17.  yet nevertheless As they are some where within the compass of the created world, so are they in a common place. 
The whole created world is hades with the defender.  This As doth so haunt you, that you can do nothing without it. As they are in the created world, so they are in one common place. Then hell and heaven with you make but one place, and consequently Christ sitting at the right hand of God, is with all the elect angels in the same place with the devil and the damned; and we living here on earth since we are in the created world, are both in the same place with Christ, & also in the same place with the damned. Such new cosmography well becometh your new Divinity; without such misshapen Asses you are not able to open your mouth. But if this be your best defence for your new found Hades, your Reader I trust will be better advised, before he will be in the same place or mind with you. The Scriptures teach us to distinguish places according to their names given them by God himself, as heaven, earth and hell, and not to make all one common place, or world of souls which you have newly created.  

c Pag. 175. li. 22.  We stand not so much on this, that by hades must be understood any one place common to all the dead, but the state and condition of death among the dead.] All this while you have been proving, that hades is an invisible place, and so doth Ambrosse expound it, aïdes is a place not seen, which we call Hell; now you can not tell how to bring heaven and hell (which are so far distant asunder) to be one common place, you would feign reduce them to one common state or condition of death, when the Scriptures every where make them opposite, ascribing light and life to the one, and darkness and death to the other. But you have found one common condition of death in both, which is to want their bodies.] What say you then to Elias, who was carried up to heaven or to Paradise alive, and never died? Are he and the rest, who rose from their graves with Christ, in the common condition of death? What say you to Core, Dathan Abiram, and their company, who descended alive to hades; are they free from the condition of death in hades, because they have their bodies? Mere privations are no conditions or states. And therefore to want their bodies for a time either in heaven or in hell, maketh no common estate to both, no more than that they are all souls, and contained in some certain limitation of place, which nothing touch their condition or state: otherwise the damned in hell and the blessed in heaven shall always have one common state and condition, because they shall eternally be fastened to their places, and shall have their souls united to their bodies; and shall remember things past, and such like; which yet do not perform one common estate or condition to both, since they shall have so many contraries to make them differ, even as now they have; though degrees of joy and pain shall then increase.  
The Pagans 
d Defence pag. 176. li. 5.  esteemed indeed a part of his dominion to be hell properly, but a part also to be the region of the happy.] This is like the rest of your truths. Did the Pagans know or acknowledge none other heaven but hades? Did ever man so write or speak, that had read but one leaf of prose or Poetry? never read you what Cicero citeth out of Ennius? 
e Cicero Tuscul●…st. li. 1.  Romulus in caelo cum Dijs agit aewm. Romulus enjoyeth eternity with the Gods in heaven. And addeth of his own: 
f Ibidem.  Quid totum propè coelum, nun humano genere completum est? The whole heaven is it not almost replenished with mankind? Homer and the rest of the Greek Poets were not ignorant hereof, nor silent herein. Of Hercules Homer saith; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: He doth solace himself with the immortal Gods. And what was ouranos with them, if hades were their heaven? Arristotle saith: 
g Arist. de mundo.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The highest place of the world, being the seat or habitation of God, is called heaven. To this heaven the Poets admitted the sons of their Gods, obscurely lighting on that rule of true religion, the sons of God shall inherit the kingdom of God: but the Philosophers plainly affirm of justice and piety, 
h Cicero in Somnio S●…pionis.  ea vita via est in coelum: such a life is the way to heaven. And for all the helpers, encreasers, and preservers of their country, 
i Ibidem.  certum esse in coelo ac d●…finitum locum, ubi beati aevo sempiterno fruantur; there is a set and certain place in heaven where they shall enjoy everlasting blessedness. The Greek Poets than were not ignorant of heaven above, when they sent most men departing this life to Hades beneath; but they had heard somewhat of that divine sentence, which adjudged mankind for sin to death both of body and Soul, and thereupon, as there manner is to multiply their own fancies and fables, they placed all mortal men in Hades below; and yet allowed the better sort of men some ease and comfort; though they never brought them to heaven, except they thought them the sons of some God. What is this to the true heaven; which is the glorious seat of God, and the everlasting habitation of his Angels and Saints? Why yoke you God's truth with Poetical fables and human fancies, as if the one were not only a meet pattern for the other, but the same place with the other? How cometh hades to be all one with the created world, and so not only men living are in hades, but Saints and Angels, yea Christ himself is still in hades, since neither he nor they are without the compass of the created world? So large is your predicament of hades, that the whole world is scant wide enough for it.  
After this you read us a lecture of more than two leaves, how 
k Defenc. pag. 176. li. 23.  the Apostles taught the truth of the Gospel with the very words of the heathens; and as you make rules for their speech at your pleasure, so you take pains to bring no author, for all that you say, besides yourself. I have heard so many of your trifling and wandering discourses, that I am stark weary with reading them; and if it have no better weight than your word, you may keep your wind, and save your labour. Who doubteth, but the Holy Ghost might and did correct as well the words as errors of the heathens, and reduced both their ears and hearts to the understanding and embracing of the Gospel? Wherefore such words as Infidels abused and defiled with their wicked imaginations, the Apostles of Christ restrained and applied to express the truth, thereby teaching the heathen to keep their words and leave their errors, and not framing the Gospel to the profane sense or use of their speech. What conclude you hence for hades? That the Apostles retained the erroneous sense of that word, and made it worse than the Pagans did? For the heathen used that word for places under the earth, where souls after this life were kept; and you would have the Apostles use it for Heaven and Paradise, where the souls of the righteous are, as well as for hell where the damned are. Leave therefore your idle vagaries; the Apostles used the word hades for the places under the earth, where souls were detained, as the heathen did: but in this they redressed the Pagan's conceits, that they as natural men dreamt of bodily pleasures in hades, which the Scriptures make a place of torment with perpetual fire. Put this correction to the Poet's opinion of hades, as touching the condition of souls thither adjudged, and I see no danger in the use of hades for hell, since the Pagans by that word intended the places under earth, where the wicked after this life were punished.  

l Defenc. pag. 177. li. 4.  A Philosopher will rarely and sometime perhaps note the air by Tartarus; yet usually and in a manner always they meant hell by it. Yet Peter not Canonizing their dreams of hell, notwithstanding signifieth hell indeed by that word of theirs according to the common use thereof.] Though the Poets use not Tartarus, as often as they do Hades, for the receit of souls after death; yet it is false, which you say, that in a manner always they meant (the dungeon of) hell by it; It is an usual phrase among the Poets for the place, where souls were bestowed after death, as Hades is. Pindarus expressing the inconstancy of man's life saith: 
m Apud Plutar. de consolations ad Apollonium.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Thou must go to the deep of dark Tartarus by inevitable necessity. Moschus wisheth he might go thither to hear Bion sing there. 
n Moschus in Epitap. Bionis.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. O if I might go down to Tartarus, as did Orpheus, Ulysses, or Hercules. hesiod showeth, how the destinies, as soon as any man was wounded or slain, seized on him, and sent his soul 
o Hesiod, in scuto Herculis  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to cold Tartarus. Anacreon giving a reason, why though he be old, he is loath to die, saith. 
p Anacreontis Carmina.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, I sigh often, fearing Tartarus; for the chamber of Hades is grievous. So Theognis and others use Tartarus for Hades without any distinction betwixt them. And where you say, Peter signifieth hell indeed by that word, you may meet with many that will tell you, Saint Peter there calleth the air about 
Tartarus taken for the air over us.  & above the earth by that name, as well as the places under the earth; and that in respect of the light, which the reprobate Angels did before enjoy in heaven, this world may justly be called darkness. Zanchius saith. 
q Zanchius de operibus Dei li. 4. ca 4.  By this name Peter understood not the place only, which is under the earth, sed imprimis ipsum aerem but chiefly this air; & the whole space beneath this moon. For in this region are the devils kept captives as the Apostle teacheth, calling the devil the Prince of this air. Saint Austin saith as much. 
r August. de Genesi ad literam li. 11. ca 26  Let us not doubt but the sinful Angels were cast into this aerial mist about the earth, as into a prison, (according to the Apostles faith), kept to be punished in judgement. 
s In ca 2. epist. 2. Petri.  Aretius, Hiperius, Beza and others are of the same mind. So that this signification of Tartarus was not taken from the heathen, as you presume, but is a comparison with their former 
t In Epistolam judae.  state, when they were Angels of light, and adorned with brightness within and without, who now are thrown from their height and plunged into outward and inward darkness.  

u Defenc. pag. 178. li. 28.  The very natural Etymology of the word according to the Grammar doth properly signify UNSEEN or not seen any more in this world: topos aides an unseen place as Plato calleth it. Where note it cannot be referred to the estate of Angels, but of them that had once a visible and ordinary being and conversation here in this world.] You hang this gear together with hooks. Hades you say is properly, not seen any more in this world; yet it is tópos áides, an unseen place, as Plato calleth it. You have gotten you three starting holes under the covert of Hades, the place unseen, the person not seen any more in this world, the state invisible: but you hide yourself so unhandsomely in them, that when you think yourself most invisible, all the world may see your open folly. Was the place of Hades ever seen in this world? I trust not. Then Hades is topos aides a place, which never man living saw; for a man must be dead before he can come to that place. You grant the Grammatical Etymology of the word Hades is to signify a place unseen, as Plato calleth it. How come you then to apply this to the person or state, not seen any more in this world, by which you would exclude Angels from being in hades? It is evident that the Poets made Hades a person, and supply 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hadou very often with domous or such like, as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to the houses of Hades; and call him 
x Euripides in Aicestide.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Hades the God with the black locks of hair. Was this ruler of the places below, which is the devil, ever alive with us in this world? If he never had no visible state in this life, and yet is properly and originally called Hades, as I have showed before, than Hades is that, which was never seen in this world; and doth agree as well to Angels (for all your noting) as to devils, if it import no more, but that which is unseen of us. But who warranteth this interpretation besides yourself? Let aïdes stand for unseen; how prove you, as you conceive, that it inferreth a state once seen in this world, and now by death unseen? I say, unseen applied to hades, is never seen of any man living, and not as you wrest it, now no longer seen. And so your Etymology maketh nothing for you. And what if hades derived from aïdes signify that place where nothing can be seen for lack of light, do you not finely strip your Reader with an unseen sleite, as you think; but indeed with a sensible deluding of the truth? peruse your masters of the Greek tongue, and tell me whether the●… do not take hades for the place, where nothing can be seen by reason of darkness. Sophocles calleth it 
y Sopho. in Ocdi●….  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, black Hades. Euripides calleih it 
z Euritides in Aic-stide.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; the house without sun light. Theognis calleth it 
a Theognid●…s gnomae.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the black gates. Homer saith, 
b Homeri ●…iad. 15.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: Hades had for his share the dark mist (to dwell in). Plutarch saith of Hades, 
c Plutarch. de ●…apud D●…lthos.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he is dark, and master of the black night. The great and learned Etymologist of the Greek tongue, whom your Lexicons refuse not in most words to follow, giveth this exposition. 
d Etymologicon mega in verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, áides is that (place) wherein we see nothing. For Hades is an house of darkness. The place then, wherein nothing can be seen for darkness, is properly by the masters of the Greek tongue, and by the right Etymologic of the word, called Hades; and all your expositions and applications be forced and framed to your own fancies without any just cause or reason, but only to serve your own humours.  
(The Apostles 
c Defence pag. 180. li. 30.  took the word Gehenna from the Hebrews, and used it properly for hell. Therefore they need not alter hades for that purpose; for which they had another proper word. Christ speaking to the jews used the word Gehenna for hell fire, which they best understood; and Saint james writing to the jews dispersed saith, The tongue is inflamed of Gehenna. But the rest of the Apostles, that instructed the Gentiles, never 
Gehenna not used in speaking to the Gentiles.  used that word, which the heathen at that time did not understand; but where occasion so required, they retained the word hades, and applied it to the place of torment, and to the ruler thereof, which things were not strange to the Gentiles. Since then the Evangelist and Apostles never meant to confirm or continue the erroneous fancies of the Pagans, and yet used their words; it is evident they understood so much by these words, as was not repugnant to the Christian faith. Now hades with the Pagans was a place under the earth, where the wicked after this life were punished. This was agreeable to the truth, and for that cause the Apostles retained that sense and force of the word. That the souls of the just were also kept under the earth in rest and ease; this was the error of the heathen; though both jews and Christians lighted afterwards on that fancy. This the Apostles do not ratify in using the word hades, for that it was not consonant to the grounds of true religion, from which they never meant to depart by using any words accustomed among the heathen. And as the Gentiles, before they believed, used hades for the chief ruler of those Infernal places, so doth Saint john not refuse to attribute that name to the devil in his Revelation. And so without your conceits or discourses we have shortly and plainly the cause and course why and how the Canonical writers concurred with the Grecians in using the word hades, and yet corrected their error. Howbeit I think the Apostles had chief respect to the Septuagint, who translating the Hebrew into Greek (then rife in many learned men's hands) and expressing there the sense of Sheôl, used Hades, for the death of the body in the grave, and for the death of the soul in hell: after whose example the sacred writers of the new Testament speaking of the wicked, or joining death with hades, note what hades is besides the death of the body, which they intent by Thanatos. And therefore though Hades in the old Testament import the places of death for body and soul, I mean the grave, and hell; yet throughout the new Testament that word being always opposed to heaven, applied to the wicked, or connexed with other words that signify the death of the body, it must of force be taken for the power and place that killeth the souls of all men approaching it, except only Christ's, to whom all powers and principalities in heaven and earth and hell were and are submitted and subjecteth.  

f Defenc. pag. 181. li. 17.  Hitherto we have tried the nature and use of Hades, and have found it to be not properly hell, as you avouch; no, not when it is applied to souls of men deceased. And therefore also that it cannot be so understood in Acts 2.27. where it is applied to Christ's soul after he was dead: which yet is the only place you have to pretend.] Hitherto you have prated, what pleased you, and proved nothing; and notwithstanding your vain evasions mere privations, invincible conditions, and plain visible contradictions, Hades is found by the full consent of Christian and heathen writers to be a place under the earth and in darkness; where the souls of the dead adjudged to that place were and are detained under the Dominion of the Devil, though the Pagans in their wandering from their truth, imagined him to be a God, and dreamt of earthly pleasures there, to comfort their dejected spirits against the terror of death. And since Christ's soul was not left in hades after death, as appeareth, Acts 2.31. what have you, or any man living to say, why Christ's descent to Hades, that is (as the Gospel expoundeth this word) to the 
g Lucae. 16.  place of torment, (of which it was impossible for him to be held, or to be therewith touched,) should not be justly grounded on this place? [we may 
h Defenc. pag. 181. li. 27.  simply take hades for the invisible state or place of the deceased.] If for the place, then for heaven, where you say Christ's soul was after death. And would Christ so greatly rejoice that his soul should not be left in heaven? [
i Ibidem li. 31.  Otherwise we may take it simply for death's force and power, supplying also the same words eye tun topon, or tên chôran hadou, in that place where the power and strength of death prevaileth and holdeth the deceased 
How the defender wavereth about Hades.  souls from their bodies.] You have so many senses, that you have never a good. First you took hades for a state or place, and then you supplied it, as indeed you must, with topon or choran, a place or region. And so your sense went round like a wheel. Thou wilt not leave my soul in the place of place, or state which is not seen; that is not in heaven. Now you renew your strength to take better hold; and say, Thou wilt not leave my soul to the place of death's power. Where we must note, that heaven (for there was Christ's soul, as you grant) is by you appointed to be the place of death's power, and so you have brought us the strength and power of death and darkness prevailing in heaven, and even on Christ's soul. [
k Ibidem li. 35.  This is the world of the dead implying nothing else but an estate opposite to our visible state in this world.] Are the places or states of heaven and hell nothing, but an opposition to our visible estate in this world? There are bodies both in heaven and in hell by the consent of the best Divines, new and old. How then is their state opposite to our visible state? Moses and Elias were seen talking with Christ in the mount. What place will you appoint for them since they were visible? And if the world of the dead be nothing else but an estate opposite to our visible estate, than Christ after his resurrection relapsed often to hades, & to the world of the dead; for he was invisible to all men as long as he stayed on earth, but when and where he was pleased to show himself. And if that be true which you yourself do say, that ˡ in very deed hades hath properly but a privative 
t Defenc. pag. 17.8 li. 35.  sense, and not any thing positive in it, than your additions of place and region be repugnant to the nature of hades, except you can bring us a place and region of mere privations, in which is nothing positive; and consequently your varieties and expositions of hades be mere illusions, and have nothing in them but lies and mockeries. For hades is a place below in the earth, and dark by condition, as wherein nothing is seen, as both Christians and Pagans affirm. Hades therefore is no mecre privation. If the soul of Christ then after death were in hades, it was not at the same time in heaven, for heaven is opposite throughout the Scriptures to hades; and your own common and invisible place of both is a private and palpable error of your own.  

m Defenc. pag. 182. li. 1. li. 10.  Last of all we may take Hades here by a prosopopaea conceiving it to be (as it were) some person of unresistible power taking away & withholding from hence all men's souls departed. This last way is not the unlikeliest.] You have created us new places of mere privations, which never were, now you take upon you to create some new persons of unresistible power; and all this you confess is your conceiving and drawing Saint Luke's words whither you list. But what hath the Christian faith to do with these monstrous and impious conceits of yours? For even here, where you speak of Christ, you conceive as it were, some person of unresistible power, which you call hades, that did and doth take his and all men's souls from hence. Had hades any power over Christ, which he could not resist? Will you begin to play the Manichee in conceiving a power of evil unresistible to the Son of God? and why run you hunting after strange senses and significations of the word hades, when you have the same Canonical writer whose words you would interpret, expounding this very word in the Gospel, which he likewise wrote, as well as he did the Acts of the Apostles? The 
n Luk. 16. vers. 23.  place of torment, where the rich man was punished after death, Saint Luke in his Gospel expressly calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, hades. Would you wish any better expositor of Saint Luke's words, than Saint Luke himself, who telleth you that he calleth the place of torment for the wicked after this life by the name of Hades? Put his own exposition to his own words, and you may soon see the truth; if you have not sworn to resist it. Thou wilt not leave my soul in hades, that is the place of torment for the wicked. Against this exposition, though it be Saint Luke's, you bend your wits; and though you fear no shadows, as you told us even now, having hades for your helper, yet you catch after shadows, and cannot see the light of truth, you beat your brains so much about figures and phrases, which have no warrant but in your slender conceit and slippery tongue. Howbeit let us here them, since you rest so assured of them.  

o Defenc. pag. 182. li. 13.  You object we must not make a figurative sense but where manifest need is. here is no need of a figurative sense: therefore here ought to be no figure to be supposed. I answer: First we grant your conclusion. Whether of the two former ways we take hades, there is simply no figure at all therein.] If you take hades for the place, where souls after this life are kept in darkness and destruction under the earth, you make no figure indeed by the verdict of holy Scriptures; else, take it how you will, it is a figure, or a mere fiction of yours, which is worse than a figure. For since hades by your confession is originally the place, where nothing is seen, if you take hades either for the state of souls in that place, or for the power, or person of him who is ruler of that place, you do neither of these without a figure. As for the privation of this life, which must usually be precedent before a man can go to that place, because it is a place for the dead and not for the living, (some only excepted, who descended to hades alive); That is a passage to the place or state of hades, it is not the place or state of itself, since either of these is positive and not merely privative, and expresseth the condition of souls received in that place, and not only the want of this life. As for one common place or state of all souls deceased, this is your unwise fancy, which hath no ground either in divinity or human learning, by reason you take the forsaking and lacking of this life, for a state or place of men departed, in which no man stayeth; but is presently carried by angels good or bad, to the places of receipt, where they remain in joy or pain, according to the difference of their mansions, which are either heaven or hell.  

p Defenc. pag. 182. li. 18.  Then your own sense of hell in this place is clean overthrown by yourself. For whensoever Hades or Sheól do signify hell, it is indeed by a figure Synecdoche, where the whole is set for a part, which I have proved at large before, and particularly by Tremellius a sufficient man for his Hebrew skill.] Of Sheol Tremellius speaketh, of Hades he saith nothing; and his rule concerneth the use of that word in the old Testament, where Sheol importeth both the grave and hell, he speaketh not of the new Testament, where hades is distinguished in manifest words from Thanatos, death; and is by Saint john made consequent after death. Since than hades in Saint Luke's words is a different thing from the death of Christ's flesh, which was not left in corruption, and a place appointed for the souls adjudged to torments after this life, as appeareth by his Gospel; I make no figure in these words, Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, for all your large brags and weak proofs. And yet when I spoke of no figurative sense, I thereby excluded all metaphorical significations of the word hades, and not Synecdoche which admitteth the sense to be proper as well in a part as in the whole.  

q Defenc. pag 182. li. 24.  Thirdly it seemeth convenient, and also likely to take hades here by a Prosopopaea after our third sense before noted. Which kind of figure supposeth as it were a person of that thing which otherwise the word properly signifieth.] He that careth for no truth, may new cast the Scriptures into what sense he will by empty figures. To take the place for the persons possessing it, is not unusual in the Scriptures. And so S. john saith, 
r Revel. 20.  Hades (shall be) cast into the lake of fire, meaning the devil and his angels, and not your emphatical power of death. But this is nothing to Saint Luke's words, thou wilt not leave my soul in hades, since it can have no sense, that Christ's soul should not be left in the devil. The rest of the places, which here you repeat, and apply them with seeming to your senses, we shall have occasion after to rip up: there we shall speak farther of them. In the mean space you will prove without figures, that in the words of Saint Luke expressing David's sentence, 
s pag. 182. li. 38.  there ought of necessity to be understood a figurative sense. 
t & pag. 183. li. 1.  For take them literally (as I do) and they impugn the grounds of faith and charity, which is sufficient to cause a figurative sense in the Scriptures.] I marvel all this while, that having so sound exceptions against the literal sense, as you talk of, you spend so much time in trifles, and let the main matters alone. This is worth the hearing if you can perform what you promise: otherwise a mountain doth hatch a mouse, which the proverb telleth you will move laughter. But how doth the sense, which I give, impugn faith and charity?  

u Defenc. pag. 183. li. 5.  Verily this your sense implieth by the way and consequently, that a good and sinless man (yea the best that ever was) worthy of Paradise and the highest heavens, yet after death did go to hell. And further that being in heaven, yet stayed not there (as you say) but immediately came out again to go to hell. Again that an human soul being in the depth of hell, yet should feel no pains; and that being locally in hell, it should come out thence also: What can be more against the general rules of the Scriptures than these things?] You have laboured heard, and caught a herring. With much a do you have found at length, that Christ was a good man; he is more beholding to you now then afore, when you told us, he was all defiled, accursed, and hateful to God for and with our sins. Your leisure did not serve you to think, that he was also the true and eternal Son of God; and therefore no force of death or hell could prevail on his body or soul, farther than he was willing for the declaration of his humility, and manifestation of his power and glory. Is it against your faith and charity, that 
x Phil. 2.  all knees of those in heaven and earth, and hell, should stoop and bow to the human nature of the son of God? Is your Creed so crazed, that you can not believe that Christ rising 
y Coloss. 2.  spoiled Principalities and powers, and made an open show of them; triumphing over them in his own person? Is grace so far gone from you, that you may not endure to hear that Christ 
z Ephes. 4.  descended first into the lower parts of the earth, and then ascended (again) on high, and led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men, whereof deliverance and freedom from all power and danger of hell and Satan were not the last nor least? But he was a man you say, though a good man, and therefore you think he must be subjecteth to the same straits, that other mortal and sinful men are, to feel pains in hell, and not to come out from thence.] This, which you call faith, is infidelity against the Son of God, whiles you seek to tie him with the same chains of darkness and weakness, wherewith wicked and sinful men are tied, that are adjudged to everlasting damnation. To be condemned to hell is for misbelievers and mislivers; to destroy the power and strength of hell was meet only for the manhood of the Son of God. That he felt no pains there, and returned thence, were the smallest parts of his glorious triumph over hell and Satan. It was impossible as Peter teacheth, that the pains of death or hell should take hold on him, and his soul could not be left there. As for coming out of heaven to go to hell to subdue and destroy the same, what more inconvenience is in that, then in coming from heaven to the grave, there to take up his body, when he restored it to life? that wicked men condemned to hell cannot come thence, nor find ease there, I find it testified in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus; that the Son of God in his human soul could not go thither without abiding there for ever, and suffering the pains of hell as well as others; I find no such grounds in all the Scriptures. He saith of himself, 
a revel. 1.  I have the keys of hell and of death; that is all power and command over them. He had power then not only to free himself from your faithless doubts and dangers in hell, but to free all his elect from thence, and to 
b 1. Co●…. 15.  subject all things, and enemies (and so the strength and rage of hell and Satan) under his feet. If the truth of God bind you to believe, that an Angel coming down from heaven, cast the Devil into the bottomless pit, and there bound him, and loosed him, as he was prescribed; doth not your faith serve you to confess, that all power in heaven and in earth, and much more in hell, was given unto Christ; and that as well over rebellious Devils, as obedient Angels, who adored him when he was brought into the world, and served him the time that he was in the world, and are not stronger than his human nature, but receive power from him as being personally God and Man? these be the grounds not of faith, but of ignorance, which fail under your feet, and show that you build on Sand, which hath no force, when it cometh to be sifted.  
From the grounds of faith, which are none, you come to the circumstances of the place itself, and say, they are all against me; but I that hitherto have tried you so false conceited in every thing, will not trust you to be true-tonged in this, whatsoever you pretend. 
c Sermo. pag. 169. li. 10.  These words (of David) thou wilt not leave my soul in hades, nor suffer thine holy one to see corruption; I said, contained a special prerogative verified in none, but in the true Messias and Saviour of the world. To this you reply, [
d Defenc. pag. 183. li. 25.  I deny it, here is no such prerogative mentioned.] It is all one skill in you to denic truths, and affirm falsehoodes: you cannot do the one without the other. And here your fancies thrung so fast one on another, that they thrust each other out of doors. [The main scope of Saint Peter's purpose in this place you do not, or will not understand, and on that error you build the rest of your reasons, which are all erroneous like the root whence they come. Saint Peter, you say, 
e Defenc. pag. 18. li. 37. & 17.  intending only in all this speech to show the jews, that this jesus whom they had slain was not now dead, but risen again, plainly granteth all this matter of David, as well as of Christ] here are two monstrous falseshoods, on which all the rest of your running reasons are settled. It had been to small purpose for Peter to prove to the jews, that Christ by them slain was raised from the grave and restored to life, if there he had rested, or intended that only as you stiffly avouch: what could he by this have inferred more touching Christ, than any man might likewise of Lazarus, whom Christ raised from the grave? This therefore was not Peter's scope, he had an higher and farther reach in that long Sermon of his, which he thoroughly expresseth afterward, and that was: Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a surety, that God 
Act. 2. v. 36.  hath made him both LORD AND CHRIST, this jesus (I say) whom ye have crucified. To conclude this, Peter doth not reason so weakly, as you imagine; Christ's soul is joined again to his body, though they crucified him; ergo, Christ is the true Messias and Saviour of the world. This were like one of your reasons, which have nor head nor tail. But Peter endued with the holy Ghost, reasoned very truly and sufficiently, and in effect thus. The prophesy of David which never was nor could be fulfilled in any, no not in David himself, but only in the Messias, that his soul should not be left in hades, nor his flesh see corruption, is fulfilled in Christ, whom you crucified: he is risen Lord of all his enemies in his own person, the sorrows of death being loosed before him; he is ascended up to heaven, as David likewise foretold of him, and there sitteth at the right hand of God, until all his enemies in the rest of his members be made his footstool; and thence hath he shed forth this, which you now see and hear, even the promise of the holy Ghost received of the Father for all his. Know ye therefore for a surety, that God hath made him both Lord over all in heaven, earth, and hell; and Christ, even the anointed Saviour of all his elect. Against this illation neither all the miscreants in earth, nor all the Devils in hell can open their mouths. Where first we may see, that Peter resteth more on the manner and power of Christ's resurrection, then simply on this, that his soul was reunited to his body, from which by death it was severed. Secondly, he bringeth the words of David to show, that either part of the Messias submitted to death for the time, was to return again to life with greater glory; the flesh free from all corruption, the soul superior to all destruction. Thirdly, that these things neither were, nor could be verified in David, since David saw corruption, as his sepulchre proved remaining to that day, and David was not as then ascended to heaven, much less made Lord over all his enemies.  

g Defenc. pag. 183. li. 25.  here is no such prerogative mentioned.] If this were common to Christ with David and others of the faithful, how could Peter hence conclude, that this was not spoken of David but only of the Messias? Again if this were no prerogative, what need was there, that David should be a Prophet by special revelation to know this much? and that which David knew, was not only this that Christ should rise to life again, but the words are, that 
h Act. 2. v. 30.  God would raise up Christ (after death) to set him on his throne; that is, to give him an everlasting kingdom, even all power in heaven and earth, subjecting all his enemies under his feet. So that simply to rise from death was no prerogative, nor proper to Christ; but to rise Lord over all, death and hell not excepted, this was peculiar to Christ, and not common to him with David; and therefore must needs be a special privilege to the manhood of Christ, which is expressed chiefly in these words, Thou wilt not forsake my soul in hades, but bring me thence conqueror of all mine enemies.  

i Defence pag. 183. li. 35.  You add, no flesh (dead) was ever free from corruption but only Christ's, what then? ergo his soul was in hell?] Why winch you, where no man toucheth you? doth any man say Christ's soul was in hell, because his flesh saw no corruption, or rather that David's words are as plain and peculiar to Christ in the one, that Christ's soul was not forsaken in hell; as in the other, that God would not suffer his flesh to see corruption? and both being affirmed of Christ by way of special prerogative, why should not both be likewise performed in Christ? [
k li. 38.  were not some being dead raised to life again, before their flesh putrefied?] The promise of God to Christ, that his flesh should not see 
Christ's flesh could not putrify.  corruption, doth not only assure a speedy resurrection, but an impossibility, that any corruption could prevail against his flesh: since the return of his flesh to dust, to which all others are judged, would be the dissolution of his person, for the time, which by no means might befall him, his Godhead being united unto flesh, and not unto dust. In these words therefore of David, the soul and body of Christ were appointed to be superior to all contrary powers, that is the soul to hell, the flesh to the grave; and from both was Christ to rise as subduer of both, that he might sit on his heavenly Throne, as Lord over all, not by promise only as before, but by proof also, as appeared in his resurrection. And yet so many days, as Christ did, lieth no man in his grave without some taint of corruption, which in Christ was utterly none.  

l Defence pag. 184. li 7.  It is a strange absurdity, still to abuse your Reader, calling this word hell, which indeed is nothing but death in effect. Again to presume that we take it for Paradise, or heaven, or hell: when we refer it always to the general state of the dead, and no farther immediately.] Then when you expound the words of the Creed Christ descended to hades, your  
meaning is nothing in effect, but that Christ died, which was before delivered in plained and shorter words; and so your exposition is an idle and obscure repetition. Again, hades in the new Testament is never taken for the death of the body, since it is annexed to bodily death, as a consequent after it: and so your acception of it is repugnant to the truth of the Scriptures. And where you will at no time have Hades taken for Paradise, Heaven, or Hell, as here you pretend; when you thereby note the place of souls deceased, mean you they are neither in Heaven, Paradise, nor Hell? are you not a wise man to talk so much of an invisible place; and when you come to the point, you will have it no place at all? but you refer it always to the general state of the dead, and no farther immediately.] An invisible place you refer immediately to no place, and thus when you will be frantic or foolish, words shall lose their proper and plain signification, and contain no more than pleaseth you. Show us a place, where souls deceased are besides Paradise, Heaven, and Hell; and we will grant, you may exclude these three by some pretence, when you spoke of the place of hades: but if you cannot, then topos aides, a place unseen, which you have so much bowled at, will be a place in spite of your heart, and that immediately; and consequently will be Paradise, Heaven, or Hell, whatsoever you presume or dream to the contrary.  

m Defenc. pag. 184 li. 17.  Christ had another inestimable cause to rejoice that he was raised to life again, namely that he might fulfil his whole work for our salvation, which before his resurrection and ascension he could not accomplish.] When I told you, that Christ after death was to conquer Hell, and to free us thence; you would needs defend, that Christ on the Cross perfited our redemption, and wrought our salvation; and now you say, which I take to be the truer, though you mean not to be constant therein, that before his resurrection and ascension he could not accomplish the work of our salvation.  

n Defenc. pag. 184 li. 27.  The text saith, God raised him up, losing the sorrows of death; because it was impossible for him to be holden fast of it. Will you conclude from hence: ergo there were present sorrows 
How Christ loosed the sorrows of death.  in the place where Christ was? there is no strength in this reason.] There is more strength in it, then either you will acknowledge, or can answer. The sorrows of bodily death are all dissolved by the separating of the soul from the body. Then after death there are no sorrows of bodily death. But God raised up Christ, losing the sorrows of (Hades or) death. The sorrows of death (by Peter's words) were then loosed, when Christ was raised, because it was not possible for him to be held thereof. So that this pertaineth nothing to the sorrows, which he felt dying; they ended all with death; but the sorrows of an other death, even of death in hell, were loosed when he was raised, because it was not possible for that kind of death to take hold on him. Your two or three things, wherewith you would shift of the Apostles words, do you no good. That God 
o li 32.  loosed death from him, are not the Apostles words; you make a gloze upon your own words, and not upon the Apostles. Such liberty you take to change the text to serve your turn. The next is farther of from the reference of Peter's words. God loosed the sorrows of death (or Hades) at Christ's rising, that is say you, because his death had been most painful, before his Soul was severed from his body. So Peter talketh of Christ's rising, and you wrest it to Christ's dying on the Crosse. And here your hebraism will not steed you. For God did not lose the sorrowful death of Christ on the Cross at his rising, but at his dying. And therefore you are wider of, than you were before. Thus than it followeth even by the Text, that there were sorrows in Hades, where Christ was, but they could not take hold of him. The sorrows of Hades must needs be the sorrows in Hades: otherwise if they were not in Hades, they were not the sorrows of Hades. As the joys of heaven are in heaven; so the sorrows of Hades must be in Hades, where Christ was, and not where Christ was not.  

p Defenc. pag. 185. li. 4.  The very text implieth, that Christ was holden in this, which was loosed from him.] Saint Austen saith you fitten. Snares may be broken and loosed, ne tencant, non quia tenuerunt, not because they have taken hold, but that they should not take hold. [(〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) you say is to be holden fast.] Your Greekish conceits crossing Saint Augustine's judgement, taste more of will then of skill. Kratcisthai hath many significations, amongst others it 
What Kratcisthai signify  signifieth to touch, to take, to hold; and in the the new Testament it is specially observed by those, that are learned, that it signifieth, prehendere or tenere, to take, or to hold. The Maries that went to Christ's Sepulchre, meeting him as they came thence, 
q Mat. 28. v  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, touched his feet, and worshipped him. When Simons mother in law was sick of a fever, Christ 
r Mar. 1.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, taking her by the hand, lift her up. The ruler's daughter of the Synagogue, Christ likewise, 
s Matth. 9  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 took her by the hand, and the maid arose. Your Lexicons will tell you, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 standeth often for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to touch. Now if you may choose, what signification you will have in every word, you are no Reader, but an over ruler of the Scriptures. Howbeit we now see Saint Austin hath better warrant in the Scriptures for his tenere, than you were ware of.  
Thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades. 
t Defenc. p 185. li. 1●…  I say he was now in the same, wherein he was not left nor forsaken.] I say the same, and by your own saying convince you, that if S. Luke by Hades here signify hell, as he doth in his Gospel; Christ's soul was in hell (by your own illation), in which it was not left nor forsaken. [
u li. 12.  But he was in no sorrows at all now.] Then is Saint Augustine's assertion confessed by yourself, the sorrows of death were loosed at Christ's rising, not that they had taken hold on him, but that they should not take any hold of him, or so much as touch him. [If he were in them, I think he should have felt them.] The Scripture saith his soul was not left 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in (the place of) Hades: it speaketh not there of the sorrows of Hades, as if Christ were not forsaken in them. But God, as Peter saith, loosed them, when he raised Christ; that is, he made Christ the subduer and dissoluer of them at his resurrection. [
x li. 27.  You mightily urge that it is Augustine's collection, from this text. I perceive your argument is from Austin, and not from Peter, as you pretend.] It is better to imitate Austen and his collections, then to rest on your idle brain, as you do; and when you have clean mistaken both the scope and words of the text, to range after butterflies. Howbeit if it had pleased you to look better into the 169. and 170. Page of my Sermons, you should have sound more reasons there then Augustine's collections. But your answers and disproofes a man may soon perceive come out of the bottom of your pocket, for there is neither truth nor learning in them.  

y Defenc. pag. 185. li. 35.  Austen miss in his translation of these words. Thus he readeth, solutis doloribus Inferni, quia impossibile erat teneri cum in illis: God raised up Christ losing the sorrows of hell, because it was impossible he should be held in them. But the text hath losing the sorrows of death, seeing it was impossible he should be holden fast, or strongly holden of it. Seeing therefore he failed in expressing the text, no marvel if his collection from it were wide.] He that never saw water but the Themes, will think there is none other Sea. You never look neither to the diverse readings, nor significations of words in the new Testament, and that maketh you so hastily to pronounce, that 
z Ibidem li. 33.  Augustine's collection hath no ground nor reason in the text, but is wholly disproved by it. Austen followed the ancient and received translation of the Church in his time, and miss not so much, as you imagine. For that Text hath two readings, some books having Thanátou death, 
Many Greek copies have the sorrows of Hades.  some having Hadou, which the old translator calleth infernum, the places below, or hell. Peruse the new Testament in Greek of the larger volume printed by Robert Steven at Paris Anno 1550. and see whether he put not Hadou over right this place in the margin, as standing yet in many copies. The Greek Bible printed at Frankford, Anno 1596. confesseth the like variety of reading. Athanasius useth sometimes 
a Athanas. in passion. & crucem Domini.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he loosed the sorrows of Hades; and someties 
a Athanas. in passion. & crucem Domini.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the sorrows of death. So doth Epiphanius: Peter saith, It was impossible (Christ) should be held 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 
b Epipha. in Anchorat.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, of it, that is of hades. And against the Arians. It is said by the Apostle, it was impossible that he should be held 
c Idem heres. 69. contra. Ariomanitas.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of hades. The Syriack translation reverenced for antiquity and fidelity, keepeth the word Sheiul twice in the four and twentieth verse of this Chapter, and saith. 
d Syriacatranst. Act. 2. v. 24.  But God raised him up and loosed the sorrows deshiul (of Shool which Saint Luke calleth hades) because it was impossible he should be detained bashiul, (in Sheol or hades). The Arabic translator doth the like. He retaineth in the same verse the word 
e .  hawwito twice, saying as junius rendereth it, 
 God raised him up, and scattered the sorrows of perditien, because it was not possible that he should be conquered of perdition. Where junius plainly yieldeth, that this word in Arabic answereth the Greek word ᶠ hadou, not thanátou which appeareth 
 also in the 6 verse of the same chap. Thou wilt not leave my soul ph●… hawwito in perdition Which Saint Luke calleth hades: and in the 10 Christ was not left in perdition. So that Austen had some reason more than you knew, to follow the first translator concurring with many Greek copies, that then were, and yet are extant, and with the Syricke and Arabic translations, who followed the same copies with the Latin church. This text is cited in Ireneus: ●… whom God raised, s●…lutis deloribus inferorum, quia non erat 
 possible teneri eum ab eyes, losing the sorrows of hell, because it was not possible for him to be held of them. Cyprian thus expresseth it. 
*  Impossibile quip erat sanctam illam animam teneri ab inferis. It was impossible for that sacred soul to be held of hell. Fulgentius citeth 
 it, Solutis inferni doloribus, the sorrows of hell being loosed. Bede taketh both for one 
 in this place. ᵏ Solutosper Dominum dicit dolores inferni, sive mortis. Peter saith the sorrows of hell, or death were dissolved by Christ. Since then both are found in many Greek 
 copies, and neither can be rejected as false; the name of death (if you retain it) must be so expounded, as it may not impugn the force of hades: and death, having a double power place, and subject; as the death of the body here on earth, and the death of the soul in hell hereafter; this later death and hell do rightly match together, the sorrows of which were loosed by Christ, because it was impossible for him to be taken or touched by them.  
You quarrel also with the translation, which Austen followed, for saying, in illis in 
 them; though that be the right intent of the text; and you stick not to strain Peter's words to what higth you list. So that you keep the words, and alter the sense; and Austen keepeth the sense, though he vary somewhat from the words. For that was loosed, of which it was impossible Christ should be held, and even therefore was it to be loosed, because he could not be held therein. But the sorrows of death or hell were loosed. It was therefore impossible Christ should be held of them; I mean of the sorrows of either. The sense than is rightly and aptly taken, though the plural be put in stood of the singular; and Calvin himself in respect of the sense retaineth that change, though the words do somewhat differ from the text. 
l  In this sense Peter saith, Christ rose, the sorrows of death being loosed, ●…a quibus impossibile erat ipsum tenert, of which (sorrows) it was impossible he should be held. Now if you or any man else can find us those sorrows after Christ's bodily death, we are ready to hear you, for they were loosed, when Christ was raised: but if you cannot, as in vain you have proffered to do, then must the words be expounded, that though the soul of Christ after death were in hades, even in the place of torment, where it was not left nor forsaken; yet the sorrows thereof could not touch him, but he loosed and scattered them, when he was raised to immortality, and heavenly power and glory.  
persuaded of this point, hear him again in the same Epistle. 
p Ibidem.  Quamobrem teneamus firmissimè, quod fides habet fundatissima authoritate sirmata, quia Christus mortuus est secundum Scripturas, & quia sepultus est, & quia resurrexit tertia die secundum Scripturas & cetera quae de illo testatissima veritate conscripta sunt. In quibus etiam hoc est, quod apud inferos fuit, solutis eorum doloribus, quibus eum erat impossibile teneri. Wherefore let us most firmly hold that, which our faith hath being confirmed by most grounded authority, as that Christ died according to the Scriptures, and was buried, and rose the third day according to the Scriptures, and the rest of those things, which are written of him in truth most clearly testified. Amongst which this is also one point, that he was in hell, and loosed the sorrows thereof, of which it was impossible he should be held. This is such a resolution, that if you were soberly minded, and not fantastically conceited, as well in doctrine as in Discipline, you would beware how you crossed the faith of the whole Church without more pregnant and evident matter, than you have any; and not think it enough to shift with Poetical fancies, metaphorical senses, and palpable contrarieties, and falsities, such as few men would fall into besides yourself. And as for the exposition of Peter's words, which Austen leaveth indifferent, if it dislike any man; that concerneth the place of Peter's first Epistle the third Chapter, beginning at the 18. verse, How Christ in spirit went, and preached unto the spirits in prison, who were disobedient in the days of No: Which was the question proposed to him by Euodius, to whom he wrote his 99 Epistle. And of that he saith. 
q Ibidem epistola 99  Consider yet, least happily all that which Peter speaketh of spirits closed in prison, which believed not in the days of Noah, omnino ad inferos non pertineat, sed ad illa potius tempora, quorum formam ad haec tempora transtulit: pertain not at all to hell, but to those times, which Peter compareth with these times. And after large discoursing how that comparison might stand, he concludeth with your words. This exposition of Peter's words, if it dislike any, or do not satisfy, quaerat ea 
* In fine epistolae 99  secundum Inferos intelligere, let him seek (in God's Name) how to fit the things (there written) to them in hell. So that his exposition subjecteth to other men's liking, did not concern hell at all, nor Christ's preaching there, but the preaching of repentance in the days of Noah by the spirit of Christ; and if any man liked not that exposition of Peter's words, he might seek how to make Peter's words agree with things done in hell, if he could tell how to perform it.  

r Defenc. pag. 186. li. 16.  More circumstances of this text (Acts 2.) do make affirmatively for us: first Peter plainly granteth all this matter of David, as well as of Christ] But that I am well acquainted with your pertinacy, I should muse at this insolency. Peter doth exactly prove, that this prophesy was never verified in David, because David's flesh saw corruption, as was evident by his 
s Acts 2. v. 29.  Sepulchre remaining with them to that day. Since than it was not true of David's person, that he saw no corruption; he spoke this as a 
t Ibid. ver. 30.  Prophet, knowing that God had sworn to raise up Christ concerning the flesh, to set him upon his throne. You may do well to leave this outfacing Scriptures and Fathers, it may seem a shift for a time, but it will end with your shame. [
u Defence pag. 186. li. 24.  By the whole text it is evident Peter had no reason nor purpose to speak to the jews of Christ's soul being in hell.] If you may be judge, Peter shall say nothing, but what hitteth your hand right. It is more than plain 
How Christ must rise from the dead.  by the whole purport of Peter's speech, that he meant to prove Christ to be raised up as Lord of all his enemies, and Saviour of all that obey him. To rise simply from death, was not sufficient to show the eternity and sovereignty of Christ's kingdom; but he must be raised as the only Lord, that should sit on David's throne, and have all things in heaven, earth, and hell, subjecteth unto him. From our enemies if he could not deliver us, he could be no Saviour of ours: he must therefore tread them all under his feet, when he rose from death, before we could hope to be freed from them by his force. And to this end Peter expressly maketh mention, that God scattered the sorrows of death and hell before him, when he raised him up, that all the faithful might be assured, as Christ conquered and destroyed the devil in his own person, when he rose from the grave, so he could and would do the like for all his members by freeing them from the power of Hades, and conforming them to his death and resurrection. This God had promised to his people by his Prophet, saying: 
x Oseae 13.  I will 
The jews were promised their Messias should conquer hell.  redeem them from the hand of hell, I will deliver them from death. O death, I will be thy death. O hell, I will be thy destruction. Repentance is hid from mine eyes. This David foretold the Messias should perform, in that his soul should not be forsaken (that is, left destitute of power or honour) no not in hell. Of this deliverance from their enemies, and from the hands of all that hated them, 
y Lucae 1.  spoke the Prophets, that were from the beginning of the world. This was the oath, that God swore to Abraham, that they being delivered out of the hands of their enemies, should serve him without fear, of sin, death, or hell. This the jews believed, and expected in the Messias; and therefore neither were they, (I mean the elect among them) so 
z Defenc. pag. 186. li 33.  ignorant, unbelieving, and stubborn, as you pretend, three thousand being converted with this one Sermon: neither was this so strange and uncouth a thing, as you imagine, being so often promised and prophesied unto them: Neither did Peter intend only Christ's resurrection, as you suppose, his chief scope being to show them the strength and height of Christ's heavenly kingdom.  
And where you flourish, that this was 
a Defence pag. 186. li. 35. ●…  not subject to sense, and without all example of the like in the whole law, and namely no figure foreshowing any such thing: these be objections meeter for perfidious jews, then for those that would seem to be believers. How many points of faith are not subject to sense? Christ's sitting at the right hand of God in glory, will you not believe, because it is not subject to sense, and without an example of the like, and no figure foreshadowing any such matter? Of Christ's ascending to heaven, and his return to judge the quick and the dead, have you any examples or figures in the whole law? and yet it is no such hard matter to proportion our deliverance from hell and Satan to the bondage of Israel in Egypt, and the overwhelming of Pharaoh and all his host in the bottom of the red sea. The like might be said of sampson's death, who being weak and bound slew all his enemies; of David, and Goliath, of Daniel in the lions den without harm, of jonas lying in the Whale's belly, and such like, which though in all things they match not Christ's conquest over Satan, and the destruction of him and his kingdom, as no figures can do, yet are they resemblances of that which you so much dissemble. Howbeit, as I said, of Christ's birth, burial, descending to Hades, rising, ascending, sitting in heaven, and coming to judge, the law did not yield any express and visible figures, as it did of his death and sacrifice.  

b Defenc. pag. 187. li. 9  We have seen that Hades hath no such meaning in the Acts; which yet is the only place whereon you build. This were sufficient to end this argument: but yet it shall be good to try whether any where hades properly signifieth hell. Verily it doth so signify no where at all in the Scriptures. Yet I grant it is and aught to be translated hell in two places, Matth. 16. v. 18. Luk. 16. v. 23. not that the word itself doth necessarily signify hell, but because the circumstances here do require that meaning as the fittest and best for these particular purposes.] We have seen you beat your brains about Hades to make it any thing rather than than tindeed it is both by the general opinion of all Pagan Poets, and by the constant assertion of all the Greek Fathers. We have also seen you turn & wind yourself, you know not whither; sometimes to have it the place for souls departed this world, sometimes the state of such souls; sometimes the power of death, and sometimes the privation of this life; and so to cross and control your own conceits, that you could not tell where to set foot without falling. Now as he that is blind, maketh no difference betwixt day and night, no more doth your wilful, yet witless imagination perceive any distance betwixt truth and falsehood. And having held your own so well, that no shifting or shuffling can make you ashamed, you will now proceed to a farther trial of other texts of Scriptures, to see whether you can outface them with your fancies and figures, as you have done them that be already overpast. I make no doubt, but if you may sit sole judge in your own cause, you will quickly pronounce 
How hades is used in the new Testament.  for yourself; but if you must prove as well as pronounce, you will make as many errors in your proceedings, as there be holes in a sieve. Howbeit you grant, that in two places of the new Testament Hades is and aught to be translated hell, not for that the word of itself doth so necessarily signify, but because the circumstances require that meaning. Which is as much as if you said, there are two places in the new Testament, where hades is & must be taken for hell; neither can you with all your sleights & shifts avoid the same; the circumstances of the text so evidently demonstrate, the Evangelists took hades for hell. This by your leave is some prejudice to your cause, and a bridle to your boldness, that the holy Ghost doth twice in the Gospels by your own confession use hades for hell: and why he doth not use it in that sense in other places, there is no impediment, but your proud will and waste words. Saint Luke is so clear, as no exception can be taken to it, that 
c Luke. 16.  Hades is the place of torment after this life; and not one common place for all in pain and rest, with nothing but a ditch betwixt them. So likewise Christ promised, 
d Matth. 16.  the gates of hades should not prevail against his Church; where if you defend, that the godly shall not have their souls separated from their bodies by death, and yet hell may prevail against their souls, you maintain two as manifest lies, as a man may utter. Spite of your hart therefore, Hades must signify hell in the 16. of Saint Matthewes Gospel; and so it doth in all other places of the new Testament, though the circumstances of each place be not so pregnant as these are. And though in the old Testament Zuinglius & Mollerus observe, The gates of Sheol, and Hades with the Septuagint, may signify the danger of death approaching, when it is referred to the godly, yet Hades in the new Testament never signifieth the death of the body, but it is a thing distinguished from it, and consequent to it, as Saint john in plain words doth witness. his name, that sat on the pale horse, was Death, and Hades followed after him (or close to him.)  

e Defenc. pag. 188. li. 3.  The worthy Master Bucer noteth well saying; Dives non simpliciter scribitur esse in hade, said in gehenna quia in torment is & flammis. The rich is not said to be simply in hades, but also in hell: because he is said to be in fiery torments.] Master Bucere I honour for his learning and Religion, yet not so, that all his words are Gospel, or that I receive him afore or against all the Fathers. And by his leave in this place his words are out of square. He saith, The Rich man is not simply written to be in Hades; but if mine eyes were matches, when I read Saint Luke's Gospel last, it cannot be more simply written than it is there. 
f Luke. 16.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, And in Hades, lifting up his eyes. Now what place Hades is, the Evangelist expresseth, when he saith; being in torments. Had Hades been used alone without explication, men might and would have questioned this, as they do other places, where Hades is used alone. But Luke noting afterward, what manner of place Hades is, even a place of Torment, he proveth exactly that Hades alone without any addition joined to it is used for hell in the new Testament. [Will you 
g Pag. ibid. 8.  conclude from this, as you do about Abyssus? In the Revelation and in Luke Abyssus is used to signify Hell. Therefore it signifieth Hell in the Romans, or therefore every where properly it signifieth Hell.] If Abyslus be the bottomless pit properly, and 
Abyssus in the new Testament is hell.  hell be so called both in the Gospel and in the Revelation; and no reason can be given, why either the grave, or the Sea should properly be called bottomless; then since figures are not to be brought into the Scriptures but upon necessity, you must show us more necessity, than hitherto you have done, why hell may not be understood in that place, or else we must cleave to the natural sense of the word, and leave your figures, till you can better fasten them. That Abyssus may metaphorically be applied to other things, I never denied; but in Saint Paul's words to the Romans you must show us a pit, that properly is bottomless and opposite to heaven; and to which Christ descended, before you can exclude hell as not meant by the Apostle in that place. But of this I have spoken before, whither I refer you for fuller answer 
h Ibid. li. 11.  death sometimes is the 2 death, ergo, it is so Acts 2. 24.] The sorrows of the first death end with this life, and in the grave there is neither sorrow nor sense. But the sorrows of that death, which Peter meant, were loosed at Christ's rising to life. Those were therefore the sorrows of another death, which must be the second death, which were loosed and scattered with Christ's resurrection. Again the text hath there a double reading; death or hades. Then that death must be understood, which is in hades, and not the sorrows and pains, which are in this life; since hades by your own confession is a state opposite to the world. Thirdly, the losing of the sorrows of that death which Peter there intended, proveth Christ to be Lord of all. But a simple rising unto life again proveth no such thing. That therefore was neither pertinent nor sufficient for Peter's purpose.  

i Defenc. pag. 108. li. 16.  Next let us consider, and thou Capernaum; which art lift up to heaven, shalt be brought down to hades, to destruction. I say hades here is not hell; but the destruction of Capernaum the city. Christ threateneth the city itself with destruction, and razing out from the face of the earth, which he meaneth by hades. The inhabitants the wicked people thereof he threateneth with damnation in hell.] A grave and wise construction. Christ threateneth the stones and timber of the city with hades for not hearing his word, and regarding his miracles. In the 20 verse of this very chapter, where it is said, 
k Matth. 11. vers. 20.  Christ began to upbraid the cities (whereof Capernaum was one) because they repented not; of whom spoke Christ of the men, or of the walls of those cities? it may be you will find out repentance for stones; but our Saviour nameth the place for the persons, which is as usual in the Scriptures, as any thing may be. 
l Matth. 23. verse 37.  jerusalem, jerusalem, which killest the Prophets, and stonest those, that be sent unto thee. Christ speaketh not there of the houses, but of the Inhabitants. So doth he here; for neither were the stones of this city capable of repentance, nor exalted up to heaven, nor intelligent of Christ's words or works, nor punishable at the day of judgement; all which things Christ here ascribeth to Capernaum. Then if the stones of Capernaum were not exalted to heaven, they were not threatened by Christ, to be depressed down to hades. And so hades here was not threatened to the place, but to the persons. Now the persons by your own confession, and by the righteous judgement of Christ, were threatened with damnation in hell. Hades then in these words of Christ doth exactly signify hell, and implieth as much as followeth in the next verse; It shallbe easier for the land of Sodom in the day of judgement, then for thee; Which is likewise spoken to the city, though meant of the unbelievers there. Now if we make the former words interrogative, as some Greek copies have them, and the Latin translator putteth them, And thou Capernaum wilt thou be exalted to heaven? You must give will to stones, as well as sense, before these words can agree to the city itself. The Gospel of Saint Matthew translated into the Hebrew tongue long before Saint jeroms time, (if it were not written in Hebrew by the Evangelist himself, as jerom thinketh,) thus expresseth the words of our Saviour. 
m Hiero. de scripture. Eccles. in Matt●…eo.   

n Matth Euangel. hebraicum.  And thou Capernaum, wilt thou be exalted to heaven? adh Gehinnom têredi, thou shalt descend to Gehenna. And if that which you have said all this while, have any truth in it, that hades is the privation of this life or power of death; had the stones of Capernaum ever any life, that they might be deprived of it, and come under the power of death?  

o Defence pag 188. li. 30.  It is not so often applied to other things; notwithstanding we may find it applied to other things, as where Plato (which you stumble at) saith in hades were birds, beasts, trees, flowers fruits. I deny not but they had toyish conceits, but wise men may see how their meaning was these unreasonable creatures being once brought to destruction, they yielded hades to them also.] Is it not enough to draw the Scriptures to Plato's fabulous conceits, but you must grossly falsify Plato to fit your new made hades? Where Plato saith, there were 
p Plato in Phed●…ne ad finem.  trees flowers, fruits, and beasts in hades, doth he not there also say, there were 
p Plato in Phed●…ne ad finem.  men that lived long, and without sickness, and temples, in which the Gods dwell familiarly, and that 
p Plato in Phed●…ne ad finem.  to see these things, is the sight of the blessed? Was this meant of destruction, as you expound 
The Defender abuseth Plato and Piutarch to have a Sheol for all things.  your hades; or was it a Pagans imagination of an earthly heaven far above us, in which he described all things here found with us, but in greater perfection and excellency, than here on earth? thus wrest you not only the words of our Saviour from their right sense, but you force other writers directly against their words and meaning that you may seem in them to have some show for your licentious exposition of the Scriptures; as here you plainly pervert Plato, to make a preface to your mistaking destruction in steed of perfection. The like wrong you offer to Plutarch, whose name you abuse without either word or syllable sounding towards your intent, as if you meant to overthrow the whole world to enlarge your hades.  

q Defence pag. 18. li. 5.  Thus it seemeth Moses also useth Sheol, when he saith men, women, children and cattle alive, yea houses and riches went to Sheol.] If Moses had said so, calling that vast and deep gulf of the earth, into which the tents and stuff of Corah and his company 
The defender proveth Moses and David to have a Sheol for sheep and cattle.  fell, Sheol; yet unless you can prove, that the city of Capernaum was in like sort swallowed up (houses and implements aswell as men) in the same deep gulf of the earth, Moses Sheol maketh nothing for the ruin and destruction of cities, where the buildings thereof fall to the ground, and lie on the ground, as in decays they doc. But though you were both with Plato and Plutarch, thinking it no sin to father your fancies on them, you may not do the like with Moses without more blame than you will willingly bear. Moses hath no such words, that houses and riches went to Sheol, but they were swallowed up in the cleft of the earth, as well as the rest; yet nothing went to Sheol, save what was living, because the Scripture saith, they descended alive to Sheol. Now if you can prove tents and household-stuff to be alive, you may chance to say somewhat, though not much, for your destroying Hades; but if that be false and absurd, then have you no words in Moses to prove that riches went to Sheol or Hades. The words of Moses are plain enough, and exclude as well your cattle, as your coffers from Hades. 
r Nnmb. 16. vers. 30.  If the earth open her mouth, and swallow them; and all that they have, and they descend alive to Sheol, you shall know that these men have provoked the Lord. Themselves descended alive to Sheol, the rest was swallowed up by the earth. 
s verse 31.  For the ground broke under them, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them, 
t vers. 32.  and their houses, (or families) and every man that belonged to Corah, and all (their) substance. 
u vers. 33.  And they descended, and all (the men) that pertained to them, alive to Sheol. Who pertained to them, the Scripture expresseth before, namely their wives, their children, and their families. All their goods were swallowed up in the gulf of the earth, but of the men that were living and belonging to them, and not of their cattle, the Scripture saith; they descended alive to Sheol.  
That they had any cattle at this time save for sacrifices, it cannot be proved: they did eat no flesh of beasts, nor 
y 6.  bread; 
x Deut. 29. v. 5.  garments they changed not, on foot they traveled, servants they had to do their 
z 11  works and to bear their burdens: and yet were it granted, they had some cattle for carriage; they kept them not in their tents, which were swallowed up in the cleft of the earth. These are Moses words to the people; 
a Numb 16. vers. 26.  Depart, I pray you from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest you perish in all their sins. For their tents, with all that was in them, fell into the earth, and the persons descended alive to Sheol. Now that they descended alive to hell, not only the ancient Fathers, 
b Cyprianus in resurrect. Christi.  Cyprian, 
c Hiero. in 4. ca ad Ephes.  jerom, 
d Basil. homil. quod Deus non est author malorum.  Basil, 
e August. in Psal. 54.  Austin, 
f Epiphanius in Anchorato.  Epiphanius and others teach, but our new writers therein agree with them; as namely Pelican in Numerorum ca 16. vers. 32. Aretius' in his problems de inferno loc. 162. Bullingere in 28. cap. Mat. de morte aeterna. Gualtere. homil. 89. in Esaiam. & homilia 158. in Lucam. Lavatere in ca 15. Proverb. vers. 24. So that you must seek farther for your Sheol and Hades of unreasonable beasts; since to descend alive to Sheol, is the terrible judgement of God against seditious rebels, and not against sheep or oxen.  

g Defenc. pag. 189. li. 13.  After this manner also those sheep in Sheol (which you turn to the worst) may be understood.] If you can prove there be sheep in Sheol, we will give ear to it; but if you tell us nothing besides your seeming and saying, you show yourself to be like a sheep out of Sheol. And here the Reader may see, how certain a leader he shall have of you: for in the half of this one side you deliver six or seven expositions & resolutions with no better warrant, than 
* Pag. 189.  It seemeth, & this may be; and yet with these you patch up your predicament of Hades to contain all things, even stones, cattle, and sheep. But hath this any seeming worth the speaking of, that because David saith of the wicked, like sheep they lie in Sheol; you should conclude, ergo there be sheep in Sheol? you need not fear my turning of this to the worst, I cannot well turn it to worse, than it is. The wise man saith, 
h Ecclesiast. 4.  be not like a Lion in thine own house. Doth that infer every man to have Lions in his house? 
i Psal. 28.  Thy children, saith the Psalmist, shallbe like olive plants round about thy table. Hath every good man therefore Olive plants about his table? The wicked be in Sheol like sheep; that is, either 
k Matth. 22.  bound hand and foot, and cast into utter darkness, as sheep are bound by all four, when they are prepared for the slaughter; or void of reason and unable to help themselves like sheep. That the word Sheol standeth next to sheep in the Hebrew, and the verb cometh after, Like sheep in Sheol shall they be put; is the occasion, but no justification of your error; since the verb (they shall be laid or put) hath no sense at all, except you repeat Sheol with the preposition after it, and say; they shallbe laid in Sheol like sheep. So that unless you will be more then like a sheep, you must leave this kind of collecting.  
Your quoting of the Prophet Abacuk, and of the proverbs to show that all things are in Hades, because neither Hades nor death can be satisfied, is much like your sheep in Sheol. Do proud men covet chalk and chibols, because in the same verse 
The defenders most absurd proofs for his Sheol of all things.  it is said, they can be no more satisfied, than death and Sheol? I win not; but rather as death and Sheol cannot be satisfied with bodies, and souls of men, which are things by them desired and received, no more can the proud oppressor be satisfied with the spoils of many countries, but seeketh 
l Abac. 2. v. 5.  to gather unto him all nations, and to heap unto him all people, even as death and Sheol do. The place of the proverbs, which you bring, joineth with Sheol 
m Prou. 30. v. 16.  a barren womb; and the earth, which cannot be satisfied with water. And thence you can no more conclude, that all kind of creatures are in Sheol, then that they are in a woman's womb, which is barren. And but that I see men lose their wits, aswell as their senses in Hades, I should much marvel, what were become of yours all this while, that speak not only so impertinently and untowardly, but so absurdly and ridiculously, that men will stop their ears for very shame, if you will not stop your mouth.  

n Defenc. pag. 189. li. 25.  Yet we must comeneerer. You allege two frivolous proofs of sheols signifying hell: viz. when it hath opposition to beaven, and situation as the lowest. For the situation of hell it is a secret, which Gods word hath not revealed at all. Neither ought we to determine, as you very rashly do, if hell be any where, there can be no doubt, but it must be in the lower parts of the earth.] You, that have ranged so far both from the truth, and from the matter in question, had need at length come somewhat nearer. The proofs produced by me, that Sheol, when it is opposed to heaven, or described to be in the lowest parts of the earth, importeth hell, are not so frivolous as your folly maketh them, they are grounded on better and surer rules of holy Scriptures, then are your toys of birds, and beasts in Hades. And first touching the place of hell below in the earth, which you labour to cross as much as you can; though I before have showed the constant opinion of old and new writers, yet can I be content to reason it farther with you, because you and your friends are devising new hells and heavens, even as you are hammering of a new Hades. That hell is 
p Luk 16. v. 28.  a place of torment, the Gospel is evident. Being a place, it must be either in heaven above us, or in earth beneath us, except you will coin us a new Creed and say, God is creator of heaven, & earth, and of hell also, which is neither in heaven nor in earth. But you may not control the Creed, except you will also correct the Scriptures. For that division of the created world into heaven and earth is witnessed in infinite 
q Esa. 37. jere. ●…2.  places of holy Scripture to be most sufficient. Hell then, since it is 
●… Gene. 2. v. 1. 4. & 14 v. 19 22.  somewhere, must be within the earth under us, except you will make it a part of heaven over us; and then must men ascend to hell, as they do to heaven, and no longer 
●… Psal. 115. 121 124.  descend. But the Scriptures are plain, that hell is beneath us, if they make mention at all of any hell, which perhaps you will call in question, as well as you do the rest. Those, whom the Apostle calleth 
r Philip. 2.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which stoup to the power of Christ's kingdom, and confess him to be their Lord; who are they, but reprobate and condemned men and Angels? and where is the place of the punishment, but under the earth, since dead bodies can neither yield subjection, nor make confession unto Christ? you self grant, 
s Defenc. pag. 189. li. 11. 12  Abyssus in the Scripture doth signify a vast and deep gulf in the earth; and Abyssus is a place, whither the Devils fear 
t Luke 8.  to be sent, & where they are 
u revel. 20.  chained and bound, when pleaseth God. Now evidently by the Scriptures from this Abyssus to the earth is an 
x revel. 9 v. 2. 11. v. 7 17. v. 8.  ascent no descent. And therefore the dungeon for devils, which is hell, is under us that are in earth, not above us. The very name of Gehenna, used by our Saviour for hell, & confessed by you to be the most proper name of hell, doth it not convince hell to be Gehennam ignis, a vale of fire? and where are there vales, but in earth? hell is called Ge-hinnon saith Peter Martyr, 
y Petri Martyris loci comm●…nes Clas. 3. ca 16. numero 12.  because a vale being a low and deep place doth resemble hell, quod infra terram esse creditur, which is believed to be under the earth. The pit & lake also, which are words used bythe holy Ghost to express hell, as (
z Psal. 55.  the pit of perdition, and 
a revel. 20.  lake burning with fire and brimstone) do confirm the same, since there are no pits nor lakes, but in the earth. By Moses God saith, 
b Deut. 32.  A fire is kindled in my wrath, and shall burn to the lower Sheol, and inflame the foundations of the Mountains. A man would think these words were plain enough to prove the lower Sheol to be under the foundations of the hills, and that there burneth the fire of God's wrath, with which the wicked are punished after this life. Of the 
c Supra pa. 556. 561. 562.  lower earth I have spoken before, and proved it to be equivalent with hell in the judgement of the best Hebraicians and Divines of our times. And if the lower earth be hell; then is hell without question in the lower parts of the earth. Bullingere saith. 
d Bullinger. in Mat. cap. 28. de morte aeterna.  As touching the place of punishment, where the souls and bodies of the wicked are tormented; the Scripture simply pronounceth, saying; the wicked descend to hell: unde constat inferos esse infra nos 
e Gualterus in homil. 158. in Lucam.  in terris constitutos, whereby it is certain, that hell is beneath us, that abide here on earth. We must thoroughly maintain against scoffing Epicures, saith Gualtere, that there is a certain place prepared for the wicked, into which their souls strait after death, and their bodies after the resurrection are received. Of which (place) Moses speaketh when he writeth, that Core, Dathan and Abiram were swallowed up with the gaping of the earth, and descended alive with all theirs to hell. But having treated thereof in sundry places before, I will end with a verse of Sibyllaes' prophesy (alleged and allowed for a Christian truth by 
f Lactant. de divino praemio li. 7. ca 20.  Lactantius, 
g August. de civitaete Dei li. 18. ca 23.  Austin, and 
h Prosper de promise & predicat Dei part. 2. promise. 28.  Prosper) where speaking of the last judgement, and the signs and consequents of that day, she saith. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The earth gaping, (or cleaving in sunder) shall then show (or lay open) the very Tartarean Chaos (or dungeon) of hell.  

i Defenc. pag. 189. li. 31.  You know the Apostle mentioneth the Air, and that on high, as being the place of devils. Notwithstanding far be it from me to affirm, that hell certainly is not beneath. Yet your pretended Scriptures are merely forced to prove it.] Your are lighted just on Master Broughtons' argument, whose folly hath filled many sheets afore, and now all his Religion, learning and reasons are emptied in the fourth part of one poor printed sheet of the lesser size of paper. Only in this he showed some wit, that he foresaw of such brainsick stuff, the least would be the best. But do you understand (for he is not worthy an answer, who can frame himself to nothing but to rage and riddles) that, which the Psalmist saith of the elect Angels; God shall give his 
k Psal. 91.  Angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways? or which the Apostle saith, 
l Heb. 1.  They are all ministering spirits sent forth for their sakes, which shall be heirs of Salvation? Doth this prove there are no Angels in heaven? I trow not. Their office is here to attend and defend the faithful, and yet heaven is the place of their habitation, whither they repair with unspeakable celerity, when their special service is finished. So the devils have hell appointed for the place of their condemnation, and thither they carry, and there they torment the wicked, as also they are commanded to the deep, and chained there at God's beck; notwithstanding some of them are by God's wisdom and patience permitted to wander in the air, and compass the earth, to tempt the wicked, to try the godly, to show their power upon the creatures, and bewray their malice against the Church of God. Wherefore the air and earth are the places of their seeing and assaulting us, but hell is their home, to be remanded thither upon any the least occasion, when pleaseth God. The grief, terror, and torment of their inward confusion, obscuration, malediction, and condemnation they always bear about them, and within them; being no way freed or eased of that, wheresoever they go; but they are often spared from the place of torment, which is the deep, that they fear and shun, and yet know they must all thither at last to be terribly and eternally plagued and punished there for all their hateful impieties and villainies. They therefore (during the time of our warfare & conflict with them,) govern the 
m Ephes. 6. &  darkness of this world, and 
n 2.  Rule in the Air, yet not all, nor only there; they have their chief, their powers and principalities, and their kingdom is not divided against itself: yet the strength and terror of their kingdom is in hell, which they neither do, will, nor can forsake, how fearful soever the place be to themselves, as well for the present pains there, as for remembrance it shall be in the end of the world their perpetual prison, when their torments shall be exceedingly increased, and they not suffered to start from thence.  
The Scriptures which I brought you say are merely forced to prove Hell to be beneath.] And why? because Sheol in the Scriptures by your conceit doth no where signify hell? that 
o Pa●…. 190. li. 5.  Sheól is a vast and deep gulf in the earth, the bottom whereof we know not, yourself admit. Then if the wicked dead or alive descend to this vast deep and unknown gulf in the earth, whither go they I pray you; to the grave, or to hell? To go alive to the grave were somewhat strange, and yet the grave is no deep nor unknown gulf: but to descend alive or dead to the bottom of the earth were more stranger, if hell be not meant by that gulf in the earth. And if no more be meant by descending alive to Sheol, then to fall alive into a cleft of the earth & there to die: the terrible judgement of God executed on Core and his company for their rebellion, in the sight of all Israel, is utterly eluded, since to fall into a deep well or Coalpit, and there to die, is as great a punishment as they suffered, and is a descending alive to Sheol, as theirs was. And where is the fire of God's wrath, 
p Deuter. 32.  inflaming the foundations of the hills, and burning to the bottom of Sheol? is that also in your gulf of the earth; and not in hell, which Moses saith is the lower Sheol? And how can dead men, whose carcases either lie on the earth 
q Esa. 14. v. 19  unburied, as the King of Babylon did, or are laid in their graves, descend to 
r Vers. ●….  Sheol beneath, or to 
s Ezech. 32. verse 24.  the lower earth; if neither of these import hell, but a vast and deep gulf in the earth, whither dead bodies never come? this for the Situation of Sheol; what say you now to the opposition of Sheol, to heaven?  

t Defenc. pag. 189. li. ●…7.  Every opposition between Shammaijm the heavens or skies and Sheol doth not signify the opposition between heaven and hell. Shammaijm thus placed signifieth the skies, not the very place of God's heavenly glory in the presence of God, which in English we call heaven.] When Sheol is opposed is opposed in the Scriptures to Shammaijm, the ground of the opposition 
Why the heavens are compared with hell in the Scriptures.  is either the height of the one, and the depth of the other; or the glory and felicity in the one, and destruction and misery in the other. In those three places, job 11. vers. 8. Psal. 139. vers. 8. Amos 9 vers. 2. the perfection, presence, and power of God are expressed to be higher than Shammaijm, and deeper than Sheol. Now doth your religion serve you to restrain any of these three to the skies and the grave, and not to make them superior to the highest heaven, and deeper than the lowest Sheol? Shammaijm, you say, is the sky, as well as the heaven of the blessed. Shammaijm is the air also, where birds fly; as well as the skies. Do you therefore think it a meet comparison for the presence or power of God, to say that, if you climb to the top of an high steeple, which standeth in the air, the hand of God can reach you there? as though it were enough for the perfection, presence, and power of God to reach to the skies, and you were scant resolved, whether you should grant it to stretch any farther. But though you cavil with Hades, quarrel not with God. His perfection, presence and power are infinite above the highest heaven, and beneath the deepest Sheol; yea these comparisons do not match him, but lead us to those places, where the most wonderful works of God are, to which no man living can ascend or descend; much less can we search or attain to the height or depth of him or his perfection, presence, or power. And this is so plainly comprised in those places, that none but an irreligious and impious conceiter will doubt thereof. 
u job. 11.  Canst thou by searching sink out God, or trace the Al●…ghtic to his perfection? saith the book of job. the heavens are high (where his glory dwelleth) what canst thou do? it is deeper than Sheol, how canst thou know it? Shall it sui●…ce in this place to say, the clouds are high, the stars are higher, all which we see with our eyes, and can observe their course: or must we cast our thoughts on the highest heaven, wherein we neither see nor know any thing, but what God revealeth by his word, and which is the chiefest place of his perfection? So David. Whither shall I fly from thy presence? If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: 
Psal 139.  if ●… get down to Sheol below, thou art there also. If I take the wings of the morning and d●…d in the furd●…ct parts of the Sea (there) thy right hand shall hold me. Ascending to the highest, descending to the lowest, and going to the farthest, we pass through all places. If God be then in the highest, in the lowest, and in the midst; whither can we flee from him, who is every where? all places being here contained, the highest heavens are not omitted. The Prophet Amos hath the like both purpose and partition, where God assureth Israel, they cannot decline his hand, whither soever they could or would go; whether 
y Amos 9  to heaven on high, to Sheol below, to the breadth of the mountains, or to the depth of the Sea. If out of his division you exclude hell or heaven, as places whither God's hand can not reach, do you not with your impertinent Sophistry broach us a manifest heresy? wherefore Shammaijm here is any or every part of heaven, even as the earth is divided by breadth and depth, into the hills, the Seas, and Sheol underneath, which is here convinced to be in the earth, because God saith; though they dig into Sheol; teaching us that the lowest Sheol is in the earth, which only can be digged, and not either in water or air, which can not be digged.  
As for the 14 of Esay, from which Christ derived his threatening to Capernaum as resembling the pride and deserving the punishment of the king of Babel; the words there are so direct for Shammaijm to be the highest heaven, even the place of God's throne, that you thought best to skip it over with a false translation, and not to trouble yourself any farther. The pride of the King of Babylon, is there thus expressed. 
z Esa. 14. v. 13.  Thou saidst in thine heart, I will ascend to heaven, and will exalt my Throne above the stars of God. 
a 14.  I will ascend above the higth of the clouds, and willbe like the most highest. 
b 15.   
But thou shall be drawn down to Sheol; even to the sides (or lowest parts) of the pit. Shammaijm comprising three regions at least; the clouds, the stars, the place of God's throne; the king of Babylon in his proud ambition said, he would ascend above the higth of the clouds, above the stars of God, and would exalt his throne like to the most highest. I hope Shammaijm here, to which the king of Babylon would ascend, was neither the clouds nor the stars (they both are by name excluded:) and consequently not the skies, as you falsely translate the Prophet's words; but it was the resemblance of God's throne, and the place of his glory, to which that proud tyrant aspired. Neither meant he there to be one of God's Saints, as you would childishly challenge your opponent, but what place of glory others get at God's hands by obedience and humility he would in his arrogant heart assume unto himself with rebellion and emulation of God's greatness; even as Adam and Eve never meant to be Saints, when they accepted the devils offer, 
c Genes. 3.  ye shallbe as Gods, but desired no longer to be subject to God, and sought to get a similitude, if not an equality with God. So did the King of Babel affect to be like the most highest; though he were farthest from it of all others. For the Prophet doth not in these words express, what the king of Babylon was indeed, but what his arrogant spirit conceived in thinking there was no God greater than himself. This monstrous pride of his being the higth of all impiety and blasphemy, what reward in your conscience was it worthy to have? a plain no being any longer amongst the living? which you say Daniel affirmeth of 
d Pag. 189. li. 22.  the Messias; or a judgement proportionable to his wickedness, that is to be cast down to the bottom of hell, for exalting himself to the top of heaven?  
Your spinning of cobwebs about 
e Pag. 190. li. 21.  an inglorious destruction, is no way sufficient for this offence, except you mean destruction of body and soul in hell, with the sight and shame of his folly: and so if you join the utter and eternal destruction of his person and his pride, you agnise Sheol to be hell, as I do; and have not the wit to see, that when a man is taken hence to that terrible and intolerable vengeance, all worldly things first fail him, and the remembrance of his form: plenty and glory augmenteth the grief of his present penury and misery. Else how avoid you contradiction as well to the truth, as to yourself in your two signification of Sheol? Sheol opposed to Shammaijm, you say 
* Pag. 190. li. 4 〈◊〉 5.  signifieth not hell the place of torments, but a●… vast and deep guise only, or pit in the earth, the bottom where of we know not. If you derive this vast and deep gulf in the earth, from the warrant of holy Scripture, I must ask you; first, how many of these gulses the scripture admitteth to be in the earth? & next, what use there is of them? The Scripture mentioneth the lower Sheol indeed, so called in respect of the higher, which is the grave, common to the bodies of good and bad. Other Sheols in the earth the Scripture knoweth none. Now for whom is this lower gulf in the earth provided? for men? or for oxen and sheep? which you were placing there even now by warrant pretended from Moses and the Psalmist, but that you foully mistook the words of both. When God openeth the earth to swallow up men, and all that belongeth to them, as he did to the rebels in the wilderness, he hath room enough in the earth to cover and close that, which doth not descend to Sheol, without your vast and deep gulf. If you confess this vast and deep gulf in the earth, to serve for wicked men after death, then come you nearer to the Scriptures, but as near to hell. For David saying unto God;" Thou hast delivered my soul from 
●… Psal. 86.  the lower Sheol; declareth the lower Sheol to be a receptacle for the souls of such, as God doth not show mercy unto. Solomon saith of such as haunted harlots, 
i Proverb. 9  Her guests are in the depth of Sheól. Moses telleth you, 
k Deut. 32.  The sire of God's wrath burneth to the lower Sheól. In the lower Sheol then are the souls of the wicked, and fire there burning for them. If your vast and deep gulf in the earth be all one with this, we know the place to be hell and the use thereof the punishment of the wicked. If it differ from this, you must tell us by the word of God, wherefore it serveth. For that a vast and deep gulf in the earth should be nothing else, but an abolishing of 
l Pag. 190. li. 9  any visible creatures hence or that this should be the most proper sense of Sheol, and your vast and deep gulf a resemblance thereof, this hath neither top nor toe. If Sheol be properly nothing but a privation, how can it be a vast and deep gulf in the earth, or what proportion or similitude hath the one with the other? These are therefore nothing but your fictions imagined of your own brain to delude the Scriptures, and to avoid the lower Sheol indeed, which is the place of torment for the damned.  
How Capernaum was exalted to heaven, whether in her own proud conceit after the example of the king of Babylon, of whom Esaie speaketh; or whether Christ meant, that by reason of his often preaching and working miracles amongst them, the kingdom of God was in the midst of them, but not received nor regarded by them, which some think to be the meaning of this place: I stand indifferent, so long as we keep Sheol opposite to heaven, I mean not to the clouds, nor to the skies, as you would shift the matter, but to the place above, where the way of life is, and the brightness of God's glory, that thereby we may conceive in the lower sheol darkness and death for ever, even as in the higher sheol, both are for the time. 
m Proverb 15.  The way of life, saith Solomon, is on high; (neither in the clouds nor stars, but in the seat of the blessed, even in heaven) to him that declineth Sheol below. Where speaking of eternal life, (since bodily life is here on earth) he warneth us, that eternal death is in sheol below. The rest of your stuff is not worth the sticking at. For what if God by jeremy threatened Babylon, that though 
n jer. 51. v. 58.  her walls were thick, and her gates high, the one should be broken, and the other burned: and though she should mount up to heaven by raising her walls never so high, yet her destroyers should come from God: Doth this being spoken of the walls and gates, which should be razed, prove that her walls and gates should descend to Sheol? Where hath the prophet any such words of the walls, gates, or buildings of Babylon? And for you to expound Sheol by what you list, is a larger commission, than I know any you have. I have no doubt, but walls and gates cannot reach unto the clouds, much less to the stars, and therefore heaven applied to them standeth for that which riseth on high in the air; but that the pride of the king of Babel, lifted itself above the clouds and stars; I have proved by the plain report of the Prophet, against which no exception can be taken.  

o Defenc. pag. 191. li. 13.  Next let us view the Corinthians. O death where is thy victory, o hades, o destruction, or o power of death, where is thy sting? here it is referred to the destruction of the whole and entire persons of men taken away by death out of this world.] What is now become of your world of souls, which you so often urged as properly signified by hades? What is become of your vast and deep gulf in the earth; which sheol and hades did import, as yond told us but even now? Nay, what is become of your destruction of stones, and their descending to Hades. which you said was threatened to Capernaum? Are all these out of date, and in every new place must you be forced to frame us a new Hades? You will rest somewhere at last, if it be possible for your unquiet head to have or like any rest. Well now then hades is the 
p li 19  destruction of the whole person of man taken out of this world by death. And why should not hades here be taken for hell? [The whole scope and drift of the Apostle here, is to speak of the resurrection of the body, and you grant it.] What then? The Saints receiving their bodies endued with immortality, may they not rejoice in their deliverance from corruption, and insult, as having then the full victory, over hell and death? 
q li. 24.  Our full deliverance from hell and from Satan is obtained in this life, as it is written, we being delivered from our enemies, and from the hands of all that hate us.] We are so delivered from their hands or power, (which is all one) that we shall not need to fear them; but we are not yet actually freed from their snares, since we daily must pray, not to be led (or left) into temptation; neither are all our enemies yet fully destroyed; since as the Apostle saith; 
r 1. Cor. 15. vers. 26.  the last enemy, that shall be destroyed, is death. If all Christ's enemies were put under his and our feet, he should no longer reign as Redeemer and Saviour of his Church; 
s vers. 25.  for he must reign till he hath put all his enemies under his feet, and then shall 
t vers. 24.  deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father, which is not before the end. And yet were all things granted which you intent, it helpeth you not one whit: for may not the saints give thanks for all even then, when all is fully finished, though part be before performed? And may they not justly rejoice against all the power of Satan, I mean sin, hell, and death, when the last enemy is in sight conquered, though they be formerly freed from sin, and fully delivered from the danger and fear of hell?  

u Defenc. pag. 191. li. 31.  Your speech is very bad and scandalous, where you say the bodies of the Saints lying in their graves, are in the devils walk. 
x Pag. 189. li. 31.  For then the graves, where bodies lie senseless, are a part of hell properly taken.] You told us even now, that the air on high was the place of devils, & think you much that upon occasion I should say the graves under the earth are within Satan's walk? The book of job saith, 
y job. 1.  Satan compasseth the earth, and walketh in it. And Peter confirmeth the same, saying, He 
z 1. Peter. 5.  walketh about, seeking whom he may devour. So that the devils walk (for all your saying) is far larger than hell. And if our Lord and master most truly said of the woman, which was crooked, and could not lift up herself in any wise, that 
a Luke 13.  Satan had bound that daughter of Abraham, lo, eighteen years; may not the dead bodies of Abraham's children be in Satan's walk, as well as their living bodies be in Satan's bands? And you, that be so curious in other men's speeches, do you look to your own? Do not you defend, that the souls of the blessed in heaven may be said 
b Pag. 168.  to be in inferno, and 
c 166.  under the power of death, whereof the Devil hath the rule by the Apostles doctrine? [
d Pa. 191. li. 28.  we being here truly justified by God's grace are fully freed, and delivered from all the power of our enemies.] Are we so fully freed, that we can neither sin, nor die? or are sin and death no parts of Satan's power? When I speak of a full conquest over hell and death, in both parts of man, soul and body, which is not performed before the body rise to glory; you turn it, as if I professed our redemption from hell to be imperfect till the last day. And when I mention with Saint Paul the redemption of our bodies from corruption, which shall not be before the resurrection; you would infer thereupon, if you could tell how, that the bodies of the Saints 
e Pag 192. li. 1.  remain subject to the power of hell, to the curse of the law, and to the claim of Satan. Thus you run on, like a riotous spaniel, challenging upon every foot, but finding nothing. With like wit and truth you infer upon my words, where I say the death of the body was inflicted on mankind as part of the wages of sin, that therefore 
f Pag. 192. li. 3.  the godly must pay a part of their own redemption and satisfaction for sin; and than Christ was not our only and absolute redeemer. But which way doth this follow, can you tell? punishment for sin is in our persons neither redemption, nor satisfaction for sin; in Christ's person it was both. Know you not the difference betwixt Christ's person and ours?  

g li. 9  But I say pa. 216. that the bodies of the dead Saints are in the possession of hell, and in the handfact of hell.] In wresting and wrangling is all your grace. Where some ancient writers seem to say, that Christ delivered 
h Serm. pag. 216.  some of the Saints out of the present possession of hell; all the defence (I said) that could any way be made out of the Scriptures to excuse this, was to take hell improperly for the sting and wound of bodily death, which Satan the ruler of hell procured to man by sin. For sin, death, and corruption are the works of the Devil, which Christ came to dissolve. 
i Wisdom. 1. 2.  God made not death, as the wiseman observeth, but created man without corruption; and through the envy of the Devil came death into the world. This then being one of the wounds, which Satan through sin gave unto our first father and all his offspring, this is not perfectly cured, but with the resurrection of our bodies to eternal life, though the poison of this wound be in the mean time allayed, and the danger secured. And thus, whiles I seek to mitigate other men's words, and to extenuate the name and power of hell, understanding thereby nothing but the dissolution of man's life, and corruption of man's body, which Satan occasioned by sin; you make the Reader believe, I take the name of hell properly for the power and right, that hell hath over the bodies of the wicked, and teach, that the Saints are not delivered from hell, till their bodies rise from death, which when you list you can find to be refuted elsewhere by me; and therefore to be no part of my meaning here.  
How death is an enemy, which must be destroyed, aswell as sin and hell, we need not your commentary; except it were stored with better Divinity. It hindereth the Saints. you grant, 
k Pag. 192. li. 22.  from enjoying their appointed felicity, yet as a peaceable and quiet stop. Ascribe you this peace and quietness to their bodies void of life and sense, or to their souls stayed from the full fruition of eternal glory by that means? And trow 
The Saint in heaven most eanestly desire their bodies.  you, the souls of the Saints be well and quietly content to lack their appointed felicity? not at all to desire it, or not earnestly to pray for it; were plainly to loathe it, and not obediently to expect it. Wherefore they exceedingly affect, and instantly pray for the destruction of this enemy, that keepeth their bodies in dishonour and corruption, and hindereth their spirits from enjoying that glory, which shallbe reucaled in the last time; which appeareth by their vehement prayer in the Revelation; 
l Revelat. 6.  how long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge, and avenge our blood on them, that dwell on the earth? Where they in heaven seek not revenge on them, for whom they prayed in earth, but they express their continual and ardent desire for that day, when they shall be wholly conformed to Christ their head. And when they are willed to rest for a season, they gladly submit themselves to the will and wisdom of God; but mean while they hate death, as an hinderer of that bliss and joy, which they so much love and long for; and shall no doubt rejoice exceedingly, when this last enemy is swallowed up in victory, as the rest were before. But let death be an enemy which way you will, how doth this conclude, that Hades here (1. Corinth. 15.) in no sort signifieth hell?  

m Defenc. pag. 192. li. 28.  The very text seemeth thus to expound itself, saying, where is thy sting O Hades? the sting of death is sin. Where the later seemeth a direct exposition of the former, noting these two words, (Hades and death) as Synonymas for one thing, being applied to men.] When you talk of the text of holy Scripture, you should not leave the words, that are extant in all our printed copies, retained and alleged by the best and most of the Greek Fathers, as likewise of our new writers; and clean to the single conceit of some one man taking upon him to correct all the printed copies, that ever he saw, and of his own authority to alter the Original. I do not therefore by your, and his leave admit this for Saint Paul's text; since it is his private change of the words in the Greek against all the copies, that are either manu-scripts or printed at this day. His own confession is this. 
n Bezae annot at. in ●… Corinth. 1●…. vers. 55.  Contrario ordine legunt hunc locum, non modo Graeci omnes codices, quos inspeximus sed etiam Syrus & Arabs interprete. Not only all the Greek copies, that we have seen, but the Syriack & Arabic Interpreters read this place in a contrary order; that is, they put these words (o Hades where is thy victory?) in the last place, which you set in the first; and the other words (o death where is thy sting?) they set first, which you will have to be last. Thus then stand the Apostles words, clean contrary to that which you bring. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; O death where is thy sting? O Hades where is thy victory? And in this order do 
o In 13. ca Oseae  Luther, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  Erasmus, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  Zuinglius, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  Peter Martyr, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  calvin, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  Bullingere, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  Gualtere, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  Aretius, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  Hemmingius, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  Hyperius, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  Osiander, 
p In 1. Cor. 15.  Marlorate, and I know not how many more, both keep and cite that text in Latin, ubi tuus, mors, aculeus? ubi tua, Inferne, victoria? Where is thy sting, O death? where is thy victory, O hell? And touching the Greek copies and Fathers, that are ancient, and observe the same order of the words for the Apostles text, we have 
q Origin. li. 5. in ca 5. ad Roma.  Origen, 
r Athanas. de. incar. verbi Dei & in pass. & cruerm Domini & contra omn●…s qui negent servat. sumps●…sse primitia, ●…x natura nosira.  Athanasius, 
s Nazianz. de san●… pasch eaten.  Nazianzen, 
t Nyssenus de 40 Martyribus oratione 2.  Nyssene, 
u Epiphanius heresi 66. contra Manichees.  Epiphanius, ˣ chrysostom, ˣ Oecumenius; and though the translators of ˣ Theodoret and ˣ Theophylact retain the words of the old Latin Bible in this place for the text, yet there is no likelihood that these two in their own tongue varied from the rest, specially Theophylact who in his commenting on this place maketh an exact difference betwixt death and Hades, for that Hades containeth souls, and deadbodies, where the Latin in both places hath death, and no more.  
The Latin Fathers, you will say, do all follow the old Latin translator, and he placeth the word, sting, last as you do.] There is no one place in the new Testament, that hath received more variety of translating and ordering then this. 
y Tertull. de resurrectione carnis.  Tertullian citeth it thrice in one book after this sort. Vbi est, mors, aculeus tuus? ubi est, mors, aculeus? Where is thy sting, o death? Where is thy strife, o death? reading 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, strife for victory. 
z Cyprianus ad Quirinum li. 3. ca 5●….  Cyprian citeth it in the same order and words, as Tertullian doth. 
a Ambros. in 1. Corinth. 15.  Ambrose returneth nearer to the Greek, and saith; ubiest, mors, stimulus tuus? ubi est, mors, victoria tua? o death, where is thy sting? o death, where is thy victory? even as the interpreter of 
b Hiero li. 5. ca 13.  Ireneaus doth, though he invert that order in an 
c Idem. l. 3. ca ●…8.  other place, and 
* In 1 Corin. 15.  follow the Septuagint, which 
d Hiero. in Osca ca 13.  jerom, and other of the Latin Fathers also do. And lest you should think, as you do, that the old translator, who very scrupulously keepeth the word Infernum for Hades through out the Bible, did here translate it by death, you shall see that Eusebius lighted on a Greek copy, where the word Thanatos, death, was twice repeated, and the parts changed as they stand in the Latin. 
e Eusebius de demonstrat. evang li 4. ca 12.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; o death where is thy victory? o death where is thy sting? Elsewhere the same Author keepeth the word, death, twice; but altereth the order. 
f Ibidem li. 10. ca 1.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; o death, where is thy sting? o death where is thy victory? In this diversity of reading and relating the Apostles words, it is each man's duty not to run which way he will, though perhaps he may bring some one precedent for his purpose, but to hold that for the true and Authentic text, to which most copies and writers agree. And therefore since your exposition of hades & death to be Synonymas, dependeth upon your private changing the order of the apostles words, I see no need to make any answer to it, specially when as the Latin translator might, and no doubt did light on such a copy, as Eusebius did, which had the word, Thanatos, death, twice in that place. Otherwise it could not be that he, who was over diligent in all other places, would be so negligent in this. A farther answer to the frame of your words, as you have placed them, if any man for his satisfaction would receive; the name of death, which compriseth both temporal and eternal death, and by sin ga●… the victory of our first parents, (but that the elect by Christ have again recovered the victory over all sorts of death) giveth answer enough. For sin, which the Apostle here calleth the sting of death, did not only sting Adam and his offspring with the death of the body, but also with the death of the soul: (the wages of sin being death in all parts of man, and in all places of his abode); and therefore sin of his own nature and force, till it be pardoned by Christ, is the sting no less of hell, as in all the wicked; then of bodily death, as in all the Saints. And here by the way the Reader may observe, that for advantage you are content to make bodily death in the Saints the sting of sin, which I trust is as much, as the punishment of sin, since it stingeth unto death.  

g Defence pag 193. li. 2.  The grave of the wicked is not to be named or reckoned hell properly.] Whom doth the Apostle make to speak in that place; the godly, who have the victory over sin, hell, and death; or the wicked, over whom those three get the conquest, since the wicked do not rise from death to life, as the Saints do; but their bodides rising out of one pit fall into a far worse, which is the bottomless pit of eternal death & damnation?  

h Defence pag. 193 li. 7.  Hades is adversary to the resurrection. But hell here would not be adversary to the resurrection. Therefore hades here is not hell, no not to the wicked.] Doth the Apostle dispute here of the resurrection of the wicked to death everlasting, or of the Saints to celestial bliss and glory? though it be true, that the bodies of the reprobate shall rise up from the earth where they rested; and be cast with their souls into everlasting fire; yet the Apostle here debateth and proveth the raising up of Christ's members to bear the image of the heavenly Adam, and to have death swallowed up in victory. Look on the Apostles reasons and comparisons in this whole chapter, and if any one of them natural or theological, agree to the resurrection of the wicked, then let the Reader think you have some understanding of this place, which now is utterly none. 
i 1. Cor 15. vers. 7.  If Christ be not risen, your faith is in vain (saith Paul) and you are yet in your sins. 
k vers. 22.  As in Adam all died, so in Christ all shallbe quickened: 
l vers. 23.  every one in his order. Christ's as the first fruits, than those that are Christ's, at his coming. 
m 41.  There is one glory of the Sun, another of the Moon, and another of the Stars. 
n 42.  So also (shallbe) the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, 
o 43.  dishonour, and weakness, it shall rise in incorruption, in glory, in power. 
p 54.  When this corruptible hath put on incorruption, and this mortal hath put on immortality, than shallbe performed that, which is written, Death is swallowed up in victory, (and the Saints shall have just cause to say) 
q 55.  o death, where is thy sting? o hades (hell) where is thy victory? 
r 57  Thanks be to God, which hath given us victory through our Lord jesus Christ. How far are these things from all communion of the wicked? though hell at that day shallbe increased and advanced, (as you call it) with the bodies of all the wicked, yet may the godly Saints (of whom the Apostle speaketh) most justly rejoice against hell and death, as being now swallowed up in victory, that is, utterly defeated of all force to kill the body any more, or to stay the soul any longer by means of death from her crown of glory. For the victory which God will give us through Christ our Lord against hell and death, is not yet full, till our souls and bodies be brought to eternal bliss. And were it possible (which is not) that the souls of the Saints could for ever enjoy the rest and bliss, which now they have without their bodies; even in this want of one half, Satan should still have some victory over them, that is, over their bodies, though not over their souls. Wherefore the victory is then full, when both parts of man are freed from all things, that hinder their heavenly inheritance. And this the best interpreters confess. Peter Martyr, 
s Peter Martyr in 1. Corint. 15.  Interim videas ordine quodam nostros i●…micos recenseri: insernum sive gehennam, mortem, peccatum & legem. In the mean while thou must see our enemies (here) numbered in order: hell or gehenna, death, sin, and the law. Christ hath gotten the victory over all these, and the fruit of that victory redoundeth to us. Bullinger, 
s Bullingerus ●… 1. Corinit. 5.  The Apostle declareth, that the victory over sin death and hell is gotten by the might and merits, not of the saints, but of Christ, to whom the saints must yield all glory, praise, and thanks. And this explanation hath very excellent degrees. First ●… hell to wit, the excrlasting punishment whereby the dead are condemned to the second death: the second is sin, which is the force of death and hell. For by sin came death. The third is the law, the strength of sin. The law being then taken away, the force of sin decayeth; sin being abolished, the power of death ceaseth; death being disarmed hell is overthrown. Hyperius, 
u Hyperius in 1. Corinth. 15.  If death shall then have no more rule, it followeth that neither hell shall prevail against the godly. For this must be understood of them, since the wicked shall not be delivered from the power of hell. In these words, o death where is thy sting? o hell where is thy victory? either God, as conqueror; or the saints, as giving the praise of the conquest to God, in a sort reproach death and hell, with the loss of their power and strength. And very aptly is death put first, and then hell. For men die before they be cast into hell, in which the wicked taste the second or eternal death. More might be brought; but with wise men there can be no question, that the Saints at the last day being then fully freed from all their enemies, may give thanks to God for the victory purchased by Christ against them all, hell and Satan not excepted.  

x Defenc. pag. 193. li. 16.  Also we are to note that the Apostle here plainly alludeth to that of Hoseah. O Sheol, o kingdom of death, I willbe thy destruction, not o hell. The Prophet speaketh this to comfort Israel in their captivity against their continual destruction, and raizing out of this world.] You will soon breast other men, that will beard the Apostle in this matter so boldly as you do. Indeed you and some others think it a glory to take part with the jews contradicting all that the Evangelists & Apostles allege out of the law and the Prophets touching Christ and his kingdom; and you vouchsafe to yield to the holy Ghost speaking in them, no more skill or understanding of the old Testament, but to allude to it, and as it were to play with it, when the true literal sense of most places, as you think, is far from that, which they intent. But this judaizing, whiles you would seem, more than others, to smatch of a little Hebrew, I for my part detest; and profess to the world, I take that every where to be the true and direct meaning of Moses and the Prophets, which Christ and his Apostles collect from their words. And therefore Ierom saith of this very place, as I say of all others. 
y Hiero. in 13. ca Os●…ae.  That which the Apostle referreth to the resurrection of the Lord, nos aliter interpretari nec possumui, nec audemus, we neither can, nor dare interpret otherwise. Yea so well learned you are in the circumstances of the Prophet's speech, that you pronounce, [
x Pag. 193. li. 19  The Prophet speaketh this to comfort Israel in their captivity, showing that now the Lord would stay his judgement that way and death should now destroy them no more; Whereas Israel was then in no captivity, as appeareth by the 16 verse of the same chapter; Samaria shallbe desolute: And God had no meaning to tell the people, he would now stay his hand, and they should be destroyed no more, because in the two next verses he threateneth, They should be 
a vers. 15.  spoiled, dried, and 
b vers. 16.  desolate, they should fall by the sword, their infants should be dashed in pieces, and their women with child should be rip●…. Wherefore except you will have the holy Ghost to speak contradictions, as your manner is, you must acknowledge, that amidst the fearful troubles, destructions, and desolations then and afore denounced by the Prophet against the whole kingdom of Israel, God doth comfort his elect amongst them, that whatsoever became of their bodies in this affliction approaching, he had his time, when he would utterly destroy the power of all their enemies, not only freeing them by death from tyrants and persecutors, but saving them from death and hell by his anointed Messias, who should be a death to death, and a destruction to hell. And as this was the greatest comfort and only hope, that God's children in their miseries could expect or desire; so the Apostle keepeth right the Prophet's meaning, and showeth the time, when all this shallbe performed; that is, when all tears shallbe wiped from the eyes of Gods elect; and all their enemy's sin, death, and hell trodden under their feet. In this comfort and promise, as hell was the chiefest enemy, so, of all others, that must be contained within the limits of God's assurance, and their deliverance. In vain are all other promises of grace, whiles that enemy standeth unvanquished. And therefore as we most needed, so God most promised, and Christ most performed the destruction of hell above and afore the death of the body, which you so much talk of, and from which you give to the reprobate a resurrection, as well as to the godly, which is but a cold comfort to him, that duly considereth it.  

c Defenc. pag. 193. li. 31.  Next we come to the Revelation. First I have the keys of Hades (that is of destruction or of the kingdom of death) and of death. Or we may take them as two words for o●… and the same thing. That is both of them for death. What show of reason have you to bring in here Christ's power over the damned souls in hell? because there is mention else where of the key of hell; therefore the key of Hades here is the same. What colour of reason is there in this? Even so much as you can not resist. For if it be certain, which the Scripture confirmeth, that Christ hath the keys of both, that is as well of hell as of death; and gate them both by submitting himself to death; And Hades in the new Testament 
How Hades is used in the Revelation.  is taken for hell, as hitherto we have seen; and even with Saint john the writer of this Revelation it is a different thing from death; what can Hades be here but hell? That Christ by his obedience unto death had all power in heaven, and earth, and hell given him, the Apostle is very plain. 
d Philip. 2.  Christ became obedient to the death, even the death of the Crosse. Wherefore (or for which cause) God highly exalted him, and gave him a Name above every name, that at the name of jesus every knee of those in heaven, on earth, and under the earth should bow, and every tongue confess, that jesus is the Lord. As he himself also witnessed, when he said, after his resurrection, 
e Matth. 28.  all power in heaven and earth (that is, in all places and over all things created) is given unto me. Since then without question Christ had the keys as well of death and hell, as of heaven; and so that sense of his words is most true; let us see which of our expositions hath best reason. When john for fear fell as dead at Christ's feet, would Christ to comfort john in that plight, say no more but that he 
f Pag. 193. li. 36.  himself was once dead, and now alive, and had power to die no more, as you expound Christ's words? how could this strengthen or restore john, that was even dead for fear? or did Christ rather encourage john not to fear without cause, seeing he himself not only was risen from the dead, but had all power over death and hell, that is the keys of both to dispose of each man's life and Soul at his pleasure? when therefore Christ, that had all power of life and death, Salvation and damnation laid his right hand on john to protect him, and bade him not fear, but write the things, which he saw; had not john just cause to cast away all fear, and cheerfully to obey the voice of him, that was so able and ready to rescue him from all fear and danger whatsoever?  
Christ's power over death, you will say, was enough to preserve john's life, and therefore mention of the key of hell was superfluous. john was to see, and write the things, that were, and after should be in heaven, earth and hell, as is evident in his Revelations: yea the opening and shutting of the bottomless pit, the chaining of Satan there, the coming of the Locusts and the beast from thence, and the lake of fire and brimstone everlastingly burning there, and who should be thrown into it, were to be revealed unto him. Lest therefore the sight of these things should amaze john, or the reporting of them should want credit with us, Christ did profess, which is most true, that he had the keys, that is all power even over these secret and fearful places; so that john should neither shrink at the vision, nor we distrust the Relation of them. And though my reason of mentioning here the keys of hell be such, as you shall never countervail; yet do I not run proudly and peremptorily, as you do, in mine own conceits; I have the judgement of the best Interpreters, old and new, that have intermeddled with the opening of these revelations. Andrea's Arch Bishop of the same Caesaria, that Saint Basil was, and within 600. years after Christ, though you skornfully reject him, as you do that venerable writer Bede; expounding these words of Christ, 
g .  I have the keys of death and of Hades: saith; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that is of the death of the Body, and of the Soul. Primasius expoundeth them thus. 
h .  I have the keys of death and hell, idest, Diaboli, & totius corporis eius, that is over the devil, and all his body, (or society.) The exposition of the Apocalypse extant in Saint Austin's works; thus. 
In Apocalyp. homil. 2 inter ●…era August. Tom. 9  I have the keys of death and Hell; because he that believeth, and is baptized, is delivered from death and from hell. Haymo thus. 
k Haymo in 1. Apoc.  By the name of the keys is showed (Christ's) eternal power; by death the devil is understood, by whose envy death came into the world. And by hell, his members that shall come to the torments of hell. Lyra. 
l Lyra in 1. Apoc.  I have the keys of death and of hell; that is power to deliver thence the just, which Christ did in his Resurrection; and to enclose there the wicked, which he shall chiefly do in the last judgement. Of our new writers, Bullingere. 
m Bulling. in Apocalyp. con●…one. 6.  Christ then hath the keys of death and hell, because whom he will, he delivereth from the perpetual damnation of death; and whom he will, he suffereth justly to remain in that peril of damnation. Christ hath the supreme government of the house or kingdom of God; to quicken whom he will, and to draw them from hell and damnation; and whom he will damn, with his just judgement to destroy. For he hath most full power over death and hell. He conquered and disabled both, as it is Osee. 13. and 1. Corinth. 15. Aretius. 
n Aretij problemata de clavibus Lcclesiae, locus. 61.  He that resembled the Son of Man in the Apocalypse, said; I have the keys of hell, and death, hoc est in damnatos, damnandos, & damnatorum loca; that is over those that are damned; or shall be damned; and over the places of the damned. Chytreus. 
o Chytreus in 1. ca Apoc.  Christ delivereth his Church from the captivity of death and hell, & casteth the wicked into the Dungeon of hell and of eternal death. For he hath the keys, that is most full power over death and hell. Sebastian Meyer whom Marlorate followeth. 
p Meyer in ca 1. Apoc.  I have the keys of death and hell, that is power to pardon sins, which being abolished, both death and hell are deprived of their strength. Osiander. 
q Osiander in 1. ca Apoc.  I have the keys of death and hell, that is, it is in my hand to kill, and quicken; to damn and sauc. These men had both learning and reason to say, as they did; neither will any pick them over the perch, as you do Andreas Caesariensis and Bede, but he that hath neither.  

r Defence pag. 194. li. 3.  Again one sitteth on a pale horse, whose name was death and Hades (destruction, the world of the dead, or the kingdom of death) followed after him. This in no wise can be hell: because the Text addeth, power was given them to slay with the sword; and with famine, and with death, and with wild beasts. Hell slayeth none in that sort, these are not the weapons of hell.] You lack three Gennets to set your three poppets on horseback. If by these three, destruction, the world of the dead, the kingdom of death, you mean in 
s Pag 181. li. 38.  
s Pag. 192. li. 38.  effect nothing but death, as you use to expound yourself, that is expressed before, and Saint john saith, Hades followed after him. Doth any thing follow after itself? Again, will you bring your world of the dead, that is, all the Souls in heaven and hell, to ride on 
Hades followeth aster death.  horseback, and that in the show and shape of one person? you would make good dumb shows, you have such pretty fancies, to make death go first alone, and his kingdom to come after him. But though you play with Saint john's visions, you have no warrant to mistake Saint john's words, and to muster your own errors under his colours. Saint john doth not say, that power was given to death and Hades to kill with the sword, with famine, and with death, as you dream; but Saint john having represented the sword, or war by the red horse verse 4. and famine by the black horse, verse 5. and all sorts of diseases and pestilences by the pale horse, verse 8. he saith, power was given to them, that is, to the riders on these three horses to kill the fourth of the earth with war, hunger, and sickness. And because these three come not one after another, but when God is greatly provoked with the heinous sins, and impenitent hearts of men; therefore Hades, hell, is said to come after the third, in respect that the rebellions of men against God are ripe for hell, when no plagues can convert them from their wicked ways. This the ancient Expositor in Austin's works observeth. Hell followeth after. 
t Homil. 6. in Apoc.  Idest, expectat devorationem multarum animarum: that is, it expecteth to devour many souls (slain with these plagues.) Bede saith. 
u B●…da in 6. ca Apoc.  It may simply be understood, that such as are spiritually dead, eternal punishment doth there follow. Lyra saith the meaning is, 
x Lyra in 6. ca Apoc.  post cursum vitae present is statim captus est ad poenam gehennae. After the course of this present life, (the wicked) is strait way carried to the torments of Gehenna. Bullingere saith. 
y Bulling. homil. 31. in ca 6. Apoc.  If thou understand this wholly of the place of the damned, they are surely thrown headlong to hell, as many as being here consumed with diseases, die without faith and repentance. Rightly therefore doth hell follow after death. Marlorate. 
z Marlorat. i●… ca 6. Apoc.  And Hades followeth after (death;) This seemeth to be added to terrify hypocrites, that they may certainly know Gehenna is prepared for them, except they repent in time. Osiander. 
a Osiand. in ca 6. Apoc.  Hades followed after death, that i●…, the Images of some infernal punishments followed. It was permitted to death to take 〈◊〉 away not only by the sword, and famine, but by the pestilence, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is, and to deliver a great part of them to be tormented in hell. For hell followeth the death not of the godly, but of the wicked; which repent not their contempt, and pursuing of the Gospel. Th●…se after their corporal death descend directly to hell.  
Full wisely you add, where I say, God sometimes useth the devil to slay the bodies of wicked men, whose souls are presently carried to hell; that this is not the torments 
Pag. 194. li. 13.  of hell in the place of the damned; as if hell had not gates prevailing here on earth against the wicked, and snares here laid to catch them, that shall be damned; and the devil did not walk about devouring the souls of the reprobate, and in many of them, both souls and bodies. Wherefore if this be your best skill in points of Divinity, you may go to your old occupation, which is filling your paper with phrases, when you lack matter: The Scriptures need not your sound of words, without any sense, to declare their meaning. Show first substantially, where the Scriptures use these idle variations of yours, and then we will after argue how well they sit the circumstances of each place; otherwise it is madness to admit your imaginations for the meaning of the holy Ghost. As you now confess you never esteemed your old objection (though you earnestly urged it) of the fourth part of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…o 
Pag. 194. li. 24.  hell at once, because it is no new thing in the Scriptures to take a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…or an uncertain: so when you have thoroughly revised all th●…se ●…lle and trifling conjectures now made against the use of the word Hades for hell, you may as 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 all as one.  

d Defenc. pag. 194. li. 24.  The last place is death and Hades (that is the dominion or power of death) were cast into hell. I said it was absurd to say hell was cast into hell: You answer, it is more 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the world of souls was cast into hell. Where you do but dally with words. For 〈◊〉 that term, the world of souls.] Then yet at last you be weary of one of your whitlesse phrases; you may as well recall the rest, as this. Howbeit your head was so busied with this revocation, that you remembered not Saint john's words, which you took upon you to allege, and on which you grounded the source of your fond objection. 
e Pag. 195. li. 3.  [It soundeth, senseless ●… your ears. (you proclaim) many sort to say, that hell shall be cast into hell. But it is more senseless & truthless in mine, that you plainly falsify S. john's 
The Defender 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Saint john's words, & on that errou●… groundeth all 〈◊〉 reasons.  words and then refute your own folly. Saint john hath no such words, that death and hades were cast into hell; though you cite them in S. john's name, and quote revel. 20. vers. 14. for them; his words are, 
f Revel 20. vers. 14.  Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. Where if we take death and hades for those, that are the Rulers and governors of death and Hades, as the Scripture often by the name of the place intent the persons; then is there no absurdity, but an evident verity in this, that the d●…ll and his Angels shall be cast into perpetual fire, or into the lake of fire. And so you sport yourself all this while with your own falsity and vanity. And yet have you not avoided that, which you would so same decline, that it is more absurd to say, Your world of s●…les wast cast into hell; for then the souls of all God's Saints must be cast into hell fire; which blasphemic how your back will bear, I do not know. But you renounce that exposition of Hades, and say You use not that term. Then blush at your former presumption, and later oblivion, that having told us, this was the true and authentic and familiar 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 you now deny that ever you used that term. Look in your worthy Treatise, pag. 97. and tell me whether those words be there or no. 
g Treat. pag. 97. li. 6.  The masters of the Greek●… tongue do use hades in proper sense only in general for the state of the dead the world of the dead, THE WORID OF SOULLS departed, indifferently and indefinitely meaning aswell these in eternal joys, as those in pains. And over right these words in the Margin you say; 
h In Margin Ibidem.  The true and authentic and familiar sense of Hades. I leave you now to your own devotion, whether you will recant, or continue this proper, true, and authentic exposition, that Hades, (meaning indifferently and indefinitely as well th●…se in eternal joys, as those in pains) was cast into hell.  

i Defenc. pag 194. li 38.  There is no absurdity to say, that at the last day the power, kingdom and dominion of death shall be cast into hell, that is eternally abolished.] We ask for truth and sense, and you give us empty words and phrases. You toss these terms, as Soldiers do pikes, and then you say, there is no absurdity in them. You have been squaring & rounding of Hades, sometimes for the unseen place of souls, sometimes for the mere privation of this life, sometimes for the world of the dead in general, which compriseth the souls & bodies of all that be dead, be they good or bad; sometimes also for the power, dominion, and kingdom of death, which you enlarge aswell to heaven, where the Saints are; as to hell, where the damned are; Now which of all these shall be cast into hell? not the place: for then not only hell shall be cast into hell, which you say soundeth senselesle in your ears, but heaven also, which is most senseless in mine: not the world of the dead; for so should the bodies and souls of all the Saints be thrown into hell fire, which I trust you dare not endure. Perhaps your mere privations shall be everlastingly punished in hell, the danger is not great for them, since nothing can be no where, nor feel no pain, and so not in hell. But after many devices and advices, you say, the power and dominion of death shall be cast into hell. That shall utterly cease at the resurrection, when all souls are joined to their bodies again. How then shall that, which wholly and finally ceaseth, be cast into hell? You mean it shall be 
k Pag. 195. li. 1.  eternally abolished. This is an erection of a new hell; and no part of the old. Happy were the damned, both men and spirits, if they might be cast into this new hell of yours, that is utterly and eternally be abolished. But these be mockeries in themselves, and falsities against the Christian faith. That which is cast into the lake of fire, shall there everlastingly burn, and not consume, but dure in perpetual torment. Shall your dominion of bodily death everlastingly burn in hell? And shall it also feel the force of that fire? You must then make Hades a person; for besides persons nothing shallbe cast into hell fire. And if it be a person, it must be a devil, or a man; except you will find out a place for it amongst your sheep and cattle, that you sent alive to Hell. But such childish and peevish devices are not worth the refuting. The Reader may see, what it is for men to forsake the learned and sound expositions and assertions of ancient Fathers, and betake themselves to their fresh and new fancies, of which thy cannot tell what to make, nor how to speak.  

l Defenc. pag. 195. li. 4.  Though you mean the containing to be put for the contained, hell for the devils of hell, as one Andreas and Bede likewise understand it; yet neither you, nor they (it seemeth) do consider, that this place assigneth them to hell, at the last day, who yet then are not in hell. 
m li. 7.  But the Devils are in hell already. Therefore the devils cannot be understood here by Hades.] Can a man be so sottish, unless he were besides himself, as not to find, that all this while he refuteth his own falsifications of Saint john's words, and not any position of mine, nor of these two learned writers, whom he disdaineth as not considering where the devils are before the day of judgement? They do not say the devils shall then be cast into hell; this is your coltish conceit, from which you will not depart; but into the lake of fire prepared (as our Saviour pronounceth,) for the devil and his Angels. And how come you now in your heat so hastily to determine, where hell is, which not long since you called rashness in me? you told us ere while, 
n Pag. 189. li. 31.  The Apostle mentioneth the air on high, as being the place of Devils. Put to this that, which here you say; the Devils are in hell already; you mean the place of hell, or else you 
The defender maketh three hells instead of one.  say nothing against Andrea's and Bede, whom you would confute, as not considering where the Devils are. Do not you then determine, that hell is in the air on high, and so not only condemn yourself of rashness by your own verdict, but gainsay the Scriptures, who testify that the devils desired Christ 
o Luke 8.  not to command them into the deep? Yea by this resolution of yours the face of the earth, where we live, is hell; since the devils are here also, and 
p job 1.  compass the earth and walk therein. So that if we let you alone, in steed of one hell you will make us three; the air, the earth, the deep, since in all these three it cannot be denied but the Devils are. And yet for all your tripping so light on the toe, the devils may and shallbe at the last day cast into hell, that is affixed to the place and torments there, from which they shall not stir, as now they do, whiles the justice of God doth suffer them to uphold and increase their kingdom here on earth. And where you vouch of your hades, that it shall at the last day of judgement be thrown into hell, that is eternally be abolished; as you conceive and derive your Hades, that day shall enlarge it more than ever before, and so continue it so river. For all visible creatures in heaven and earth (save men) shall after that day have no more any being at all; yea the first heaven, and the first earth (shall) pass away, and there (shall be) no more any sea; which will greatly enrich your general Hades, that containeth the 
q Pag. 183. li. 25. 29.  destruction of unreasonable things; and the perishing of visible creatures from hence, as the proper Etymology thereof admitteth. Nay if the 
r Pag 178. li 28.  very natural Etymology of the word according to Grammar do properly signify, NOT SEEN ANY MORE IN THIS WORLD, as you affirm it doth; then all, both good and bad, be they in heaven or hell, shall after the day of judgement be properly and everlastingly in Hades. For they shall never be seen any more in this world, whose 
s 1. Cor. 7.  figure passeth away without returning, and giveth place for ever to the world to come. And this your Hades, which you would cast into hell there to be for ever abolished, shall by the natural Etymology, and proper signification thereof, confessed and urged by yourself, not only continue in hell and in heaven, but comprise them both, seeing the Citizens of either shall not be seen any more in this world.  

t Defenc. pag. 195. li. 16.  Lastly here is showed the most general and universal rendering up of all the dead whatsoever to judgement. But hell plainly hath not all the dead. Therefore death and Hades do not here properly signify the devil and Hell.] When you say, here is showed the universal rendering up of all the dead whatsoever to judgement, If you mean this of death & hades, that they rendered up all the dead, that came to judgement; you vouch a manifest untruth repugnant to the very words of Saint john going next before, for thus his words stand. 
u revel. 20. v. 13.  And the sea gave up her dead, which were in her, and death and Hades delivered up the dead, which were in them. So that all the dead were not rendered to judgement by death and Hades, the Sea had part by Saint john's own speech; and therefore death and Hades here do not signify the Dominion of death, which reacheth to the sea, aswell as to the earth. Again Saint john in the twelfth verse, 
x revel. 20. v. 12.  saw the dead both great and small stand before God. And in the thirteenth he addeth, the 
y 13.  Sea also gave up her dead, and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them. He saw then some dead stand before God, which neither the Sea, nor hades delivered. And since Paul telleth us, that the 
z 1 Thess. 4. v. 16.  dead in Christ shall rise first; and God will bring them, which sleep in jesus, with him (to judgement); what hindereth, but the dead in the twelfth of Saint john may be the elect, and the rest be delivered up from the deep of the Sea, and of Hades, as is mentioned in the thirteenth verse? If you like not this, show us a reason, why the earth is here overskipt, in which are the most of the dead bodies both of good & bad, (unless it were because no doubt was of the earth in refunding her dead) and we will make you a plainer explication of these parts, which now seem somewhat doubtful. Howbeit death and Hades cannot stand for one and the self same thing, as you would have them, since the holy Ghost applieth the plural number to them, and maketh them places (not phrases) to contain the dead in them; by saying, death and Hades gave up the dead, which were in them. Words have no dead in them, but places have; which because S. john maketh to be plural, death and Hades cannot here be taken for one thing.  
Neither were those writers, whom you reject, so inconsiderate as not easily to wipe away the force of your faint reasons. Bede upon these words, the Sea, death, and hell, gave up their dead, saith, 
a Beda in cap. 20. Apocalyp.  john signifieth the bodies shallbe gathered from the earth, and their souls from their (several) places. The good under the name of death, which suffered only the dissolution of their bodies, and no (farther) punishment: the evil he designeth by the name of hell. Andrea's Caesariensis taketh the Sea for the earth, as Bede doth; either because they thought the earth should then be plain like the sea, as Sibylla prophesied, 
b August. de Civitate Dei. lib. 18. cap. ●…. ●…ide Lactant. de divino praemio li. 7. cap. 1●….  Equ●…ntur campis montes, hills and vales shall then be all even; or because heaven and earth were before said to be 
c revel. 20. verse 11.  fled away from his face, that sat on the throne, and their place no more to be found; or for that at the mutation of the world the earth shall melt, and burn all over like a sea of fire: and of the rest he saith. 
d Andrea's C●…sarien. in 20. cap. Ap●…c.  Death is the separation of the soul from the body. Hades is a place to us unseen, that is, dark and unknown, which receiveth the (dead) souls departing hence. And those souls are dead which carry with them dead works. For the souls of the just, as the wise man saith, are in the hands of God, and no torment shall touch them. (Dead) souls I read with the interpreter, and not our souls, as the Printer in Greek hath mistaken the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, not only because the interpreter had first the copy before him, and took more care to render it right then the Printer, but also for that the Author in the very next words declareth, what he meant by dead souls before: of which there is no mention precedent, if that word be not kept, where the translator putteth it. Saint Austen taketh the sea for this world, and showing how those that live on earth may be called dead even by warrant of holy Scripture, and this life be counted no better than a death; addeth 
b August. d●… civitate Dei lib. 20. ca 15.  Nec frustra fortasse non satis fuit ut diceret mors, aut infernus, sed utrumque dictum est. Neither happily without cause was it not enough to say death or hell, but both are named, death for the good, who might suffer only death, and not also hell: and hell for the wicked; which are punished in hell. And of the next words, death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, he saith. 
f Ibidem.  His nominibus significans Diabolum, quoniam mortis est author, & infernarum poenarum; universamque simul Daemonum societatem. By these name's Saint john signifieth the devil, because he is the Author (or first occasioner) of death and hell-paines, withal the whole multitude of devils. Primasius as he was S. Austin's scholar, so doth he writing upon the revelation retain S. Austin's sense and 
g Primas. in 20. cap. Apocalyp.  sentences, as they are alleged next before. Aretas writing on the same words, 
h Aretas in Apocalyps. cap. 65.  S. john, saith he, meaneth those that have done things worthy of this punishment, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, making up the people of the second death. [Death and hades gave up their dead.] By death saith Haymo 
i Haymo in Apocalyp. c. 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  we may simply understand the death of the flesh, by hell the places of darkensse. [Death and hades] that is, all the members of the Devil with their head [were cast into the lake of fire] that is, into the deep damnation of hell. And rightly are all the reprobate figured by hell, either because abiding there they make but one house with hell, in which they abide; or else for that imitating the wor●…s of the Devil, they are never satisfied with evil, as hell never saith, it sufficeth. The new writers do not dissent, if it were worth the time to repeat many of them. Bullinger. 
k Bullinger. homil. 90. in Apoc.  Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. Hades (hell) here doth signify not the place of punishment, but those that are or were in hell: whose souls were hitherto detained in hell, or such as are appointed for hell. Death also signifieth those, that are dead in sin, and which from a spiritual and temporal death, directly pass to eternal death. Aretas and Primasius are of the same opinion with us. Chytreus. 
l Chytreus in 2●…. ca Apo. de extremo judicio.  Death shall restore all the bodies slain by him; and hell shall refund the souls of the wicked to be joined to their bodies. 
m Ibidem numero 7. de poe●…is Impiorum.  Hades in Greek is derived from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that is, not to see, or a place lacking light, which in the 22 of Matthew is called utter darkness, where the wicked deprived of the sight, light, comfort, and life of God not only suffer perpetual night (or darkness) but great and unspeakable pains and torments of soul and body. The Latins call it infernus, because the place of the damned is thought to be somewhere in the earth beneath us, as it is said in the 16 of Numbers, they descended alive to hell, and the earth covered them.  
Thus have we for your pleasure run over all the places of the new Testament, 
Why hades doth signify hell in the new Testament.  where hades is used; and for aught we see, or you say, find the plain and perpetual use of hades to signify hell; and not any such privations, destructions, conditions, and dominions of bodily death, as you dream of. And as for the circumstances of the places, they all concur exactly and directly with this signification of hades, which I observe; notwithstanding your Cabinet of conceits, that hades shall design you know not what, where, nor when. The reasons of my observations are manifest. For where throughout the old Testament with the Septuagint hades doth always import the pit for dead bodies or souls: that is, the grave common to good and bad, or hell peculiar to the souls of the reprobate, with the consequents of either; and the writers of the new purposely distinguish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 death from hades, and mention death expressly, that is, by name or by description, in every of those places, where hades is found in the new Testament, save in Christ's threatening of Capernaum, in which it is opposed to heaven, as farthest distant from it, and most repugnant to it: It is a plain & true rule in mine opinion, that the Evangelists and Apostles every where by Hades intended hell, and none of your wandering, or straggling fancies. Besides the Greek Fathers with one consent use Hades after the direction of the Canonical writers, for a place of darkness under the earth, provided to receive and detain the Souls of men. And in this sense neither the Scriptures nor the Fathers departed much from the ancient and true use of the word amongst heathen and profane Authors; saving that the Pagans made it common to the Souls of just and unjust, which the Scriptures never do, and the Fathers utterly refuse after Christ's Resurrection, whatsoever they do before. Since than Hades by the manifest exposition of Saint Luke in his Gospel, is the place of torment, where the wicked after death are punished; and the same Evangelist expresseth David's meaning to be this, that Christ's Soul after death was not left or forsaken in Hades; what cause or reason hath any man to deny that Christ dying descended to hell; there to spoil powers and principalities, and thence to lead Captivity Captive, that as he ascended to the highest heavens, there to sit superior to all the Elect Angels, so he first descended to the bottomless deep, there to subject the Reprobate Angels unto his human nature, and to dissolve the power and sorrows of hell, of which it was impossible he should be held.  

n Defenc. pag. 195. li. 36.  Here we must consider a main objection of yours, even those words of our common Creed, he descended into hell; originally it is he descended into Hades, and in truth this is all you have to allege for your opinion: but I answer two ways: first admitting, then denying the Authority of these words in our common Creed.] You have seen by this time what I have to allege; for that which I defend may besafely conceived of the Creed. The words themselves, he descended to Hades, have evident warrant in the holy Scriptures, and Peter exactly concludeth out of David's words, that Christ's 
o Acts. 2. v 31.  Soul was not left in Hades. What Hades is with S. Luke the writer of the Acts, we likewise have seen. It is even the place, where the wicked are tormented after death. Put these together, and tell me what they want of Christ's descending into hell before he rose from the dead. The words in English, he descended into hell; are confirmed by the public authority of this Realm, as well in the Book of common prayer, as in the Articles of Religion agreed on by the Convocation, and ratified by Act of Parliament. So that all your evasions & elusions of the privation, condition, and dominion of death to be meant thereby are utterly rejected and condemned by general and full consent of Prince, Pastors & people within this Realm; and Christ's descent to hell after death hath been constantly and continually professed and believed in the Church of England ever since the Gospel was here established. What you have said against it, I leave to the Readers wise and indifferent judgement, who will easily tell you, you must bring better sluffe than either phrases or fancies before the common Creed may be thus rejected and despised.  

p Defenc. pag. 196.  You enjoin us three Rules to be exactly and precisely kept in the expounding of these words; Namely, 1. distinction of Matter. 2. consequence of order. 3. propriety of words. Might not those godly men (think you) miss in some such circumstances, although the Scripture cannot?] The first compilers of the Creed meaning shortly, orderly, and plainly to deliver the sum of the Christian faith, as touching the three persons in Trinity, and the chiefest blessings which God bestoweth on his Church in this life and the next by jesus Christ our Lord, might not with any discretion in so brief and compendious assume of Christian Religion proposed to the simple and vulgar sort of all ages and sexes, use either any needless repetition, disordered confusion, or obscure involution of things requisite to our Salvation. To these Rules agree all that have expounded the Creed in the Church of Christ to this very day, save yourself, and such as have opened you the gap to these innovations. And these Rules allowed do clean cast your exposition out of doors. For where it is most plainly said that Christ died, and was buried; which words no ploughman, woman, nor child of reasonable years can mistake; you after Christ's burial come in with a dark and figurative phrase of descending to Hades, which in effect you confess is no more but what was said before in known and open speech, that Christ died. And this obscure and strange circumlocution of death you will have to be an Article of your faith, as if every Christian creature were bound upon danger of his salvation to understand what Sheol or Hades doth signify in the Greek and Hebrew Tongues; which is a position meet for such a Divine as you are. Your exposition therefore is repugnant to all three Rules. For it is a superfluous, unorderly, & enigmatical iteration of that which was before expressed in due place with as plain and easy words, as any might be spoken by the tongue of man. Now with what Arguments you or any man living (Hu. Bro. not excepted,) can prove that Hebrew or Greek phrases are Articles of Religion, and must be conceived and believed of all men before they can be saved, as yet I do not understand. And this is the misery of your cause, that not only you have no word in Latin, English, nor in any tongue else answerable to your Sheol or Hades, but when you come to lay open your own phrases, the exposition is more ridiculous than the Translation. For by Christ's descending to Hades, which you call the power, dominion and kingdom of death, you mean no more, but that Christ's Soul severed from his Body went to heaven to the rest of the blessed Souls there. And here I report me to him that will vouchsafe to read your 196. & 197. pages, whether you have any thing there but store of phrases, extending, intending, enlarging, amplifying the name, power, and dominion of death; which when all is done and said, amounteth to this much, that Christ's soul severed by death from his body submitted itself to the base and low condition of the dead, by taking the pains to go to heaven to the rest of the Saints there. This is all in effect that your Periphrasis and Emphasis moriendi do contain; and the great fall or whole casting down of Christ's person, which you so Rhetorically set out with terms of the broadest and longest size, hath nothing in it, but only this, that his soul after death which dissolved his person, ascended to the society of the blessed souls in heaven. The rest is your emphatical and paraphrastical vanity swelling with words, and shrinking in sense; which needeth none other refutation but sober observation, that when two sides are spent, nothing is said; but you are where you began. For would you not vary so many phrases as you do, tending all to express one thing; but seek a little to show us what matter is contained in them, you should soon see what labour you have lost in this Carack of words, which you have newly brought us home.  

q Defenc. pag. 196. li. 34.  Your mere and simple death, which you say is nothing else but the going asunder of the soul from the body, hath of necessity thus much in it. It is the separation of the soul from the body, which is the cause of life in the body, It is the dissolution of the person, which consisteth of body and soul: It is the privation of life which endeth with the departing 
What things the death of the body doth import.  of the soul: It is the continuing of death, since possibly there is no regress from the privation to the habit without the mighty hand of God working above nature. For the soul departing never returneth, till God command, by whose word heaven and earth were made. What now after death becometh of both parts of man, is no hard matter to conceive. Solomon saith, 
r Ecclesiast. 1●…  Dust (meaning flesh, first made of dust) returneth to earth as it was, and the spirit, to God that gave it; by him to be disposed and adjudged to joy or pain, as pleaseth him. The body than goeth to corruption, the soul receiveth judgement, where it shall remain in hell or heaven, till the body be restored again, which shall be at the last day. Descending to hades after death cannot be verified of the whole person of man, but in respect of the parts. Referred to the body, it is as much as buried and laid in the place, where it shall putrify and return to dust. Applied to the soul, it must signify the place to which the soul is carried, which I say must be under earth, since heaven is never called by that name, nor expressed by that word, either in the Scriptures, or in any other sacred or profane writers. The power and dominion of death, which you so much speak of, is nothing else but God's ordinance, that from death there is no return to life till he appoint. If then there be no dominion nor kingdom of death prevailing or ruling in heaven, where the souls of the Saints are without their bodies, than Christ in ascending to heaven descended not to Hades. Again with what truth can you avouch Christ's soul came under the full 
s Pag. 196. li. 33.  power and dominion of death, since death had no power over the body or soul of Christ longer or farther than he himself would permit; and his soul free from all bands and pains of death, destroyed the dominion and kingdom of death, to which it was always superior and never subject, but only that he might show himself with greater power to be conqueror of death rather in rising from the dead, then in declining the force of death, as if he were not able after death and in death, to dissolve the dominion and power of death? Wherefore your exaggerating the power and dominion of death OVERDO THE SOUL of Christ, and that IN HEAVEN; whither you grant Christ's soul went after death, is not only a vain and idle flourish, but a poisoned and pestilent doctrine, if you take not heed to it; since no power of death, but Christ's will to show himself Lord of life and death, either severed his soul from his body, or bestowed his soul in any place after death, or detained him in the condition of death; but he was free to die when he would, and rise from death when he would, which everteth all power and dominion of death over him, how much soever in wasteful words you avouch the contrary.  
Touching the propriety of words, that you say is as true as the rest. For Hades hath no such 
t Defenc. pag. 197. li. 28.  native and proper sense, as you talk of, but exactly and directly (when it is referred to a place and not to a person) signifieth a place of darkness where nothing can be seen, as with one consent Heathen and Christian writers acknowledge. And the word descending after death, which you must apply to the soul ascending to heaven, you childishly change into the 
u li. 35.  fall of the person from lise to death, or inconstantly vary you know not how, to Christ's submission 
x Pag. 198. li. 1.  when he died, or his abasement by 
y 4.  lying held and subdued so long time in death. Where again you incur the same sands, that you did before in affirming Christ was held and subdued of death for the time, which is plainly false doctrine, since he would abide that time in death, lest any should think him not truly dead, but was never under the power and dominion of death. And as for 
z Ibid. li. 4.  lying held in death, that phrase is strangely referred to the soul of Christ, which ascended to the third heaven with more honour and joy, than it received in this life here on earth. What Ruffian saith, is not much to be regarded; if we believe S. 
a In Apologia adversus Ruffin●…m.  jerom, neither was Ruffians faith sound, nor his authority any thing in the Church, and yet were he worth the respecting, he maketh more against you then for you. For first these words are not used as an exposition of Christ's descent to Hades, but Ruffian saith, 
b Ruffinus in Symbolum Apost.  Divina natura in mortem per carnem descendit, non ut lege mortalium detiner●…tur a Morte, sed ut per se resurrecturus ianuas mortis aperiret. The divine nature (of Christ) descended to death by (his) flesh, not to be held of death after the law of mortal men, but that rising of himself he might open the gates of death. Where he saith, the divine nature descended to death, he speaketh not of the soul, but of the godhead of Christ: which words by your leave require a sober interpretation; and yet in respect of the divine glory, the phrase of descending unto death signifieth Christ's submission to die, not his descent after death. And withal he refelleth two of your fancies, first that Christ was was not held of death, which you say he was: Secondly, that he followed not herein the l●…w of man's nature, which you say he did. And that Christ's soul descended to hell by Ruffians opinion, his words are plain enough in many places. He applieth that to Christ, which David saith; Thou hast brought my soul out of hell; and alleging the place of Peter, In his spirit (Christ preached) to them which were in prison: herein saith ●…e it is declared, quid oper●…●…gerit in Inferno, What Christ did in hell. So that the less hold you take of Ruffian, the better for you and your cause; he will do more harm then good.  

c  If any think this to be somewhat figurative, yet is it verily so familiar and easy to all people, as that other word in the Creed is, he sitteth at the right hand of God, yea it is far easier.] When you can dive deep into your own fancies, you think them as familiar to all others, as to yourself. If this were so easy and ready with the simpler sort, as you make it, me thinks it should not so much trouble you to express it rightly. But you vary so often, and say nothing in the end, that your hearers can hardly sound the bottom of your Hades. That God hath no hands as we have, this every 
What is meant by sitting at God's right hand.  mean Christian doth or should know. Since then this similitude is taken from men, and with them it is not strange to put those on their right hand, whom they will honour and advance, it is easy for the simple to learn that Christ's sitting at the right hand of God is as much as his sitting in glory and Majesty with God; which though they cannot presently perceive how great it is, yet may they readily conceive what the meaning thereof is. In your descending to Hades it is nothing so. Your inconstancy and variety in expounding that phrase is a proof what difficulty there is in it; and your predicament of twelve parts at the end of your book is a labyrinth long enough for simple Christians to lose themselves therein. Though therefore your devices be familiar to yourself, who night and day dream thereof, yet that maketh them no whit the easier to the simple; who can quickly apprehend that Christ was content to die for their sins, and to be buried for the more certain trial of death, and to have his soul bestowed where pleased himself, till his resurrection, when he raised himself from death as the vanquisher and commander of death, and of the whole power and Dominion of Satan, death and hell: but that Christ soul after death descended to Hades, that is to the general indefinite condition and Dominion of death without any mention of the place, where it abode; this is more like one of Aristotle's Metaphysical abstracts, than any part of the Christian faith.  

d Defenc. pag. 198. li. 11.  Herein all the later, famous and godly restoarers of religion in a manner do join with us; as Master Bucer, P. Martyr, Bullingere, Olevian. etc. yea master calvin liked this also well enough, though yet he seemeth to lean more to another sense.] If you mean, those learned men were of opinion, that descending to Sheol (which the Septuagint call hades) referred to the bodies or lives of good or bad, did in the old Testament signify their going to the grave, I am of the same opinion with them, I have not once nor twice professed as much: but if any of them did think, as none of them do, that Sheol in the Hebrew tongue, or in the Scriptures importeth not hell, but only the grave, I must have leave to dissent from such as be of that mind. Howbeit neither Peter Martyr, nor Bullingere, nor Bucer, nor Olevian, nor calvin are of that mind, notwithstanding they diversely expound this Article. What calvin thinketh of Christ's suffering hell pains, is not to this purpose; but most certainly he taketh Hades in the Creed for hell, and for the pains thereof. Of the rest, excepting Olevian, I have spoken before: and Olevians reasons to prefer his sense before all other senses of this Article are very weak; and not worthy a man of his learning. He layeth this for the 
Olevians conectures are but weak.  main ground thereof (which is not granted, and cannot be proved) That this Article, of Christ's descending to Hades was Christ's extremest and lowest humiliation, and no part of his exaltation. Which way will you, or Olevian prove that? and yet this is the only cause, why he would have Hades signify the ignominious state of Christ's body in the grave, where he lay oppressed, and as it were swallowed up of death. But Olevians supposition, that certainly Peter in the second of the Acts spoke of Christ's extremest humiliation, and derived it from David's words, is utterly void of all just proof. For Peter proposeth the manner and power of Christ's resurrection. Now that was no part of Christ's humiliation. Again the words, which Peter citeth out of David, argue rather the singular prerogative, which Christ had over death above David and others, that his flesh saw no corruption, nor his soul was forsaken in hell; which things whatsoever their meaning be, sound rather to Christ's honour and Soveraignitie, then to his abasement and humility. Thirdly Olevian referreth this to the baseness of the grave; where I hope Christ's soul was not. And if you make heaven or Paradise, where Christ's soul was, the lowest abasement that Christ could suffer, you will prove a mad merry divine. Lastly where Olevian would have the shame of the grave to be the victory of those hellish pains, which he supposeth Christ suffered on the cross, call you that the victory of hell over Christ's soul, when it ascendeth with honour and bliss to heaven and the society of all the Saints? These things must hang better together before I can be induced to admit them, whosoever offereth them: though I make it as lawful for me to refuse Olevians conjectures, as he maketh it for himself to leave all the Fathers, and the reformed churches of the Augustane confession expounding that article of the Creed, as I do.  

e Defenc. pag. 198. li. 23.  But we are to know that (as you cite them and urge them) they have no such authority and credit as hitherto we have yielded unto them. And that for three causes. First, for that your translating and turning them, he descended into hell, is corrupt, partial and untrue.] The exceptions, which you take against these words, are three. First, that they are ill translated by me. Secondly, that they were lately put into the Apostles Creed. Thirdly, that they contain an error, which was Christ's going to Limbus to fetch the patriarchs thence. If the rest be no truer than the first, we shall soon have done with them. Is this my translation of the Creed, he descended into hell? Can you show us, since this 
Hell in the Creed is no new translation.  Realm spoke English, or since it received the Christian faith, that ever it had any other word in this place of the Creed but hell, or a word equivalent to it? The Saxons before us said; And he ny 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…o hell; and he down went to hell. The Britons before them, if that tongue be not changed, Descenawdd y yffern, he descended to inferne. So that in calling this translation corrupt, partial, and untrue; you show that you have lately devised a sense of that article, which these parts of the Christian world never heard before. And where you would have me 
f Pag. 198. li. 34.  evidently and sound convince you by Greek authority, that hades is never applied to the state and condition of the godly deceased, and then you will yield: I like well your wit, that willbe sure to say what you list without warrant or proof, and then lay the burden on others. Must I prove the negative or you rather not be believed till you have justly proved by the Sctiptures and by the ancient Greek fathers, that hades with them did signify the place where the souls of the righteous were received after Christ's resurrection: or that hades with them was not a place of darkness under the earth, which what that be in Christian religion besides hell, I leave to the judgement of the wise and indifferent Reader. Your weak and silly proofs taking hold of the Pagans error, that thought good and bad after death were under the earth in Pluto's kingdom, whom they called hades, will never convince our English translation to be partial or false. Besides in the mean time you must remember, you reject and impugn the words received and allowed by the public authority of this Realm; and so convince yourself to refuse an article of the faith confirmed by the laws of the land.  

g Defenc. pag. 199. li. 3.  This clause of Christ's descending to hades or to infernum is new or lately put into our vulgar Creed called the Apostles Creed. Ruffinus witnesseth (who lived about five hundred years after Christ) that it was not at all in the Creed in his time.] You mistake every thing that you meddle with. Ruffian lived in jeroms time, and wrote against him, which was within 400 years after Christ; and saith the Church of Rome, and (some) Churches of the East had not those words (he descended to hell) in their Creeds. Whence you most untruly conclude, 
h li. 13.  There was no such article as this, nor any such words any where in the Creed for the space of 500 years after Christ. To clap in five hundred for four, and the whole world for some Churches of the East, are small matters with you, respecting how else where you intrude upon others; but this is more haste then good speed, what your Author doth not say, to supply of your own. [Will you say Ruffian lieth? or can you bring to the contrary any proof? I think not, yea I am sure, you cannot.] Whatsoever I say, Ruffian saith; you do little better than lie. For in that exposition of the Creed, which you cite, he setteth down this for a part of the Creed, 
i Ruffimus in Symbolum Apostolorum.  Crucisixus sub Pontio Pilato, descendit ad inferna. Crucified under Pontius Pilate, he descended to hell. And therefore out of his report to infer, there were not any such words any where in the Creed, for the space of 500 years after Christ, is to bring your own witness to give the budge. That this clause was not contained in the Creed of some Churches, may well be confessed; that it was no where received and professed as a part of the Creed for 500 years after Christ, is a manifest untruth, though Ruffian had said it, which yet he doth not. cyril Bishop of jerusalem 360. years after Christ repeating and expounding ten points of the Creed for the better remembance of those, that were baptized, after the crucifying, and burying of Christ, and before his resurrection rehearseth this as one of the ten, 
k Cyrill. Hieros●…ly. Catech. 4.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he descended to the places under the earth. Chrysostom a Presbyter of Antioch 400 years after Christ, repeateth the same as a part of the Creed. 
l Chrysosi. de expositione Symboli, homil 2.  Crucified under Pontius Pilate, he was buried. Descendit ad infernum, he descended to hell, that this also might not want a wonder. Angustine in his Sermon, ad competentes, to those that desired baptism, rehearseth the whole Creed, and this article as a part, descendit ad inferna; Christ descended to hell; and thus expoundeth it. 
m Augusi. sermo. 131. de ten poor.  Dum corpus in sepulchro iacuit, anima illa de infernis triumphavit, whiles Christ's body lay in the grave, his soul triumphed over hell. And elsewhere repeating it by parts, saith, 
n Idem sermo. 195.  Credit passum sub Pontio Pilato, credit crucisixum, credit mortuum & sepultum, credit eum ad inferna descendisse. Believe that Christ suffered under Pontius Pilate, believe that he was crucified, believe that he died and was buried, believe that he descended to hell. Yourself, if you vary not in this as you do in other things touching this cause since the making of your Treatise, acknowledge so much. 
o Treat. pa●…. 94. li 25.  We know (the Creed) to be most ancient and very near to the Apostles times: 
p Pag. 93. li. 7.  yea this very article of Christ's descending to hades; because Ignatius speaketh of it, and others most ancient likewise. And howsoever you elevate the credit of 
q Eusebij hist. ecclesiast. lib. 1. ca 13.  Eusebius report, whereof we shall speak anon more largely, the city of Edessa kept in their public monuments from the Apostles times the chief parts of the Apostles Creed, touching the work of our redemption by Christ, and amongst them this one, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he descended to hades. Which Ignatius one of S. john the Evangelists scholars likewise numbereth amongst the special matters of our redemption; as that 
r Ignatij epist. ad Trallianos.  truly, and not in opinion only, Christ was crucified, died, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, descended to hades, and rose the third day, and was assumed up to his father, and sitteth at his right hand.  

s Defenc. pag. 199. li ●…8.  This Erasmus may seem to have some colour for his conjecture, that about Thomas Aquinas his time they might (peradventure) be put into the Creed.] You can have no colour for your error in mistaking Erasmus words. Could not Erasmus, being a man of that learning and reading which he was, tell whether this Article were in the Creed before Aquinas time or no? and could Aquinas so easily put this clause into all the Creeds that were used amongst Christians throughout the world? Innocentius the third, above 60. years before Aquinas, expressing the mysteries of their mass, setteth down the twelve parts of the Apostles Creed, and this for the fifth Article, 
t Innocent 3. de mysterijs Missae. li 2. cap. 15.  Descendit ad Inferna, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis. He descended to Hell, and rose the third day from the dead. The same Innocentius in his great Lateran Council proposing the Catholic faith, as he calleth it, putteth down this for a part thereof. 
u Concil. lateranens. sub Innocent. 3. cap. 1. de fide Catholica.  Descendit ad Inferos, resurrexit a mortuis. Sed descendit in anima, resurrexit in carne. Christ descended to hell, and rose from the dead: but he descended in Soul, and rose with his flesh. Of this could not Erasmus be ignorant, since it was openly published to all men's eyes in the Decretals of Gregory: li. 1. Tit. 1. de summa Trinitate & fide Catholica cap. 1. Erasmus therefore had no such meaning, that Thomas Aquinas was the first, that added this clause to the Creed, as you and others much mistake his words; but doubteth whether Aquinas in commenting on the Creed expounded that Article, or no. And that appeareth by his next words clean contrary to your conceit, which you never took the pains to view. 
x Eras. in Symbolum Catechesi. 4.  Nonnulla suspitio est, hanc particulam ab alio adiectam, velhoc argumento, quod non est suo loco. There is some suspicion, that this part (he descended to hell) was added (to Thomas exposition of the Creed) by some other, even for this reason, because it is not put in his due place. For where he maketh the Resurrection to be the third article, the descent to hell he maketh the fourth: unless happily he thought, that Christ returning from death to life descended to hell both in Body and Soul. Erasmus saith no such thing, that Aquinas was the first, who added this Article to the Creed; but he would seem to suspect, that Thomas did not accept this as a part of the Creed in his time, for that he doth not set it in the right place, where it should be, but putteth it after the Resurrection. Howbeit Erasmus might have suspected, that some other had changed Aquinas order, as well as augmented Aquinas work. For it is evident, that Aquinas in his sum of Divinity acknowledgeth that Article (of Christ's descent to hell) 
y 9 & 28.  to come from the Apostles, and numbereth it in the 
Aquinas 2. 2. quest. 1. Articulo.  4. place before the Resurrection of Christ from the dead. And this reason he giveth, why it was not mentioned in the Creeds of the Fathers, because no heresy was then risen about that point, and therefore they still presupposed it as foredetermined in the Apostles Creed. And yet there want not Counsels and Fathers declaring and confirming this to be a part of the Catholic and Christian faith. The Council of Orleans kept in the 46. year of Charles the great, in the profession of their faith, say thus. 
a Synod. Arelaten sub Carolo. ca 1.  Descendit ad Inferos, he descended to hell to deliver the Saints, which there were held, devictóque mortis Imperio, and subduing the kingdom of death, rose again: concluding also thus: this is the faith of the Catholic Church, this confession we keep and hold. The Council of Foroiulij otherwise called Aquileia, (in which City Ruffinus, that expoundeth the Creed, was a Presbyter) made this exposition of the Creed in the time of Carolus Martellus, and Pipine his Son, Father to Charles the great. 
b Concil. Foroiu●…tens. in Symboio fide●….  In Eadem dignatus est mori, sepeliri, ad Inferos descendere, tertia dei resurgere. In the same (human nature) Christ vouchsafed to die, to be buried, to descend to hell, to rise again the third day. Which they close with this attestation. 
c Ibidem.  This most sincere purity of the Catholic faith we will all degrees of the Church distinctly to learn and commit to memory, it a ut ne unus quidem apex intermittatur vel augeatur, so that not one the least point of it be omitted or increased. The 4. Council of Toledo in the time of Sisenandus King of Spain, about 630. years after Christ, made the same profession word for word, which the Council of Orleans did after imitate. 
d Concilium Toleta. 4 cap. 10.  Christ descended to hell to deliver the Saints, which there were held, and subduing the kingdom of death rose again. Venantius Bishop of Poitiers in France, that dedicated some of his poems to Gregory the first, commenting on the Apostles Creed distinctly rehearsed the Article, 
e Venantius in Symbolum Aposto.  descendit ad Infernum, he descended to hell, among the rest; and saith farther of it; but descending to hell Christ suffered no injury, for that he did it in respect of (his) mercy. As if a King should enter a prison, not to be there held himself, but to lose such as were guilty.  

f Defenc. pag. 199. li. 21.  We can not see but that whensoever, whosoever put it first into this place, they signified thereby, it seemeth, that Christ went to Limbus a place under the earth, where they imagined the blessed patriarchs rested.] When this clause was first inserted into the Creed, no man can directly pronounce. Some places had it not for a time, and some had it anciently transmitted from the first founders of their Churches; which being duly considered by the rest, that wanted it, and the Article on every side confessed to be true, it was at length generally received throughout the Church, not as a thing newly devised by themselves, but formerly commended to many Churches even from their first erection [
g Pag. 199. li. 32.  Thaddeus, Ignatius, and Athanasius have these very words: yet say they not any where that they were in that set form of the Apostles Creed, which we now have.] If Thaddeus delivered it to the Church of Edessa at the first preaching of the faith unto them, and they kept a record thereof in the public monuments of their City to the time of Eusebius; why should it not be counted and call a part of the Apostles Creed, that is, of the short and plain form of the faith delivered to the people, when they first received the Gospel of Christ? And how should Ignatius, Athanasius, and all the ancient Fathers both Greek and Latin throughout the world light on the same words in effect, & agnise them for a point of Christian faith, if sundry Churches had not retained that Article in the summary confession of their faith even from the beginning? Ruffian allegeth truly these words, descendit ad Inferna, 
●… Pag 199. li. 38.  but not out of any example of the Apostles Creed, yea he expressly denieth it to be therein any where at that time.] Cyrill and Chrysostom expound these words as parts of the common Creed received in their Churches, and called apostolic, because it was descended from the Apostles times. Ruffian doth the like for the Church of Aquileia, where he was a Presbyter; he setteth down these words as a part of the common Creed, which he expoundeth, and nameth apostolic. And here for trial of your truth and modesty, (if you know what those things mean) I refer myself to the printed Copies of Cyprians and jeroms works, (where this exposition is extant,) whether these words, crucifixus sub Pontio Pilato, & sepultus, descendit ad Inferna, He was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and buried, he descended to hell: be not expressly set down as a part of the Creed, which Ruffian expoundeth and calleth apostolic. The Copies printed at Bafile by Frobenius, and at Lions by Gryphius, 1537; at Basile by Heruagius 1540; at antwerp by Crinitus, and at Paris by Stephan Petit. 1541; sever these words with an half moon from Ruffinus explication, as they do the rest of the Creed. Those printed at Rome by Paulus Manutius, 1563; at antwerp by Stelsius 1561; by Peter Bellerus 1589; and by john de Preux 1593. at Paris by Sebastian Nivellius 1603. distinguish them by greater or different letters from the rest. So that your denying them to be part of the Creed, which Ruffian bringeth for apostolic, is a manifest mentirie.  
As you pervert Ruffians words, so you do his meaning. For he doth not say, that Christ's descent to hell was all one with his burial; but where the Church of Rome with some others wanted those words, he descended to hell; yet with them the effect thereof was contained in the word, buried. And no marvel, that the Church of Rome (for that he chiefly noteth by the Latin word, sepultus) extended the word burial to hell; since they did, and to this day do follow the old Latin translation of the Bible Luke 16. where it is written, the rich man was buried in hell. It was an easy matter therefore for them by Christ's burial to understand his descent to hell, since as they thought, they found the word so far extended in the Scriptures. And grant that Ruffian and others of the ancients (as you affirm) did think it consequent as an effect to Christ's burial, that his soul did descend to hell; what prove you by this, but against yourself, that such as had not those words expressed in their Creed, yet retained the sense and meaning of them in that they were persuaded, this was the law of human necessity, without Christ, that as men's bodies were buried, so their souls descended to hell; which descent Christ refused not to restore men, as Hilary and others avouch. This you say was Ruffians own meaning, who [
i Defenc. pag. 200. li. 24.  going about to prove by the Scripture that Christ descended to Infernum, showeth that he meaneth his death hereby & his burial.] I suppose few men will trust you, having tried you false so often. Ruffian going about to prove by the Scripture of the old Testament, that every part of Christ's passion and his resurrection was foreshowed in the law and the Prophets, plainly distinguisheth his death, burial, and descent to Hell. For Christ's death he saith; 
k Ruffinus in expositione Symboli Apost. What Ruffinus meaneth by Christ's descent to hell.  spiritum post haec scribitur reddidisse; after this it is written, that he gave up the Ghost. This was fore spoken by the Prophet saying; into thy hands I commend my spirit. Sepultus quoque perhibetur. He is then said to be buried. For which he allegeth a place of jeremy, and addeth. Euidentissima haec Sepulturae eius indicia propheticis vocibus designata sunt, accipe tamen & alia. These most manifest signs of his burial are expressed in the Prophet's speeches, and yet thou shalt have other. Where he allegeth three other places of Scripture; how fitly to his purpose, I need not pronounce. Then cometh he to Christ's descent to hell, and saith; Sed & quód in Infernum descendit, evidenter praenunciatur in Psalmis. That also he descended to hell, is evidently foretold in the Psalms. Now whether his places be aptly cited or no, is not to the question, though you make that your whole advantage. For first, they be as aptly cited, as the rest. Next they have every one of them somewhat more in Rusfines apprehension, then of Christ's burial. For he standeth not only on those words, the dust and corruption of death, but he fasteneth most on the words of descending and bringing down in limum profundi, to the mire of the deep. Which things though you flirt at, as weighing light in your eyes, it is certain, he intended thereby more than the grave as is evident by his own words. For citing the place of Peter thus. In which (spirit) Christ descended to preach to the spirits enclosed in prison which were incredulous in the days of Noah, he addeth, in quo quid operis eger●…m in Inferno, declaratur; in which it is declared, what Christ did in hell. In the grave I trust Christ did nothing. In Paradise he did not preach to those, that were in prison (& disobedient) in the days of Noe. Since then this end of Christ's descent to hell is expressed by Ruffinus, and this could not be done either in the grave, where nothing can be done; or in heaven, where these disobedients were not in prison: It is clear that Ruffinus had no such meaning, as you make him by Christ's descent to intend no more but his death and burial.  

l Defenc. pag. 2. c. h 5.  He holdeth indeed that Christ went down to Infernum, that is to Limbus patrum, as an opinion then common among them, and worthy (as he thought) to be believed.] If he meant this, as you now confess; then he meant more by Christ's descending to Infernum then Christ's death and burial. And so by your own mouth you are convinced of a lie fathered on Ruffinus against both his words & meaning. And yet I find no such express mention or description of Limbus in Ruffians words, as you would seem to impose upon him. He mentioneth Christ's conquest over hell; 
m 〈◊〉 in Symbol. Apost.  quód Inferna sibi Regna 〈◊〉, that Christ would subject the Infernali kingdom to himself; & qui mortis habebat Imperium, disruptis Inferni claustris, velut de profundo tractus; he that had the rule of death, was drawn as it were from the deep, the cloisters of hell being broken open. He saith also, Animabus de Inferni captivit ate revocatis, the souls being revoked from the captivity of hell; but whom he thereby meaneth, he expressed before with the Apostles words, when he said, 
n Ephes. 1.  qui simul consuscitavit nos, simulque sedere fecit in caelestibus: Christ raised us up together with himself, and made us sit in heavenly places with him. So that if you and your friends when you prate so much against all or the most of the ancient fathers as upholding Limbus, would bethink yourselves, that most of them speak indifferently as well of the living and yet unborn, as of the dead before Christ's time, when they say that souls were delivered out of the bondage and captivity of hell and Satan, you should do them less wrong, and less deceive yourselves, than now you do. And for those fathers, that indeed were of this opinion, that before Christ's 
The place of Abraham's bosom unknown.  resurrection Abraham's bosom was under the earth, you shall do well to think and speak more reverently of them, considering what master Bullingere, a learned and grave Divine resolved even of that point. 
o Bullingerus in Lucae ca 16.  Sinus Abrahae aliud non est quam portus salutis: ubi autem fuerat quondam hic locus, an apud superos, an apud inferos, nolo pronunciare, imo malo ignorare, quam temere definire, quodliteris sacris expressum non habeo. In his ut curiosus esse nolo, ita nihil desinio, cum nemine super hac re contendere volo. Satis mihi est intelligere & fateri veteres sanctos in refrigerio, loco utique certo, non in tormentis, ante ascensionem Domini fuisse, ut maximé ignorem, ubi ille locus fuerit. The bosom of Abraham is nothing else but an (entrance or) port of salvation. Where this place formerly was, whether above in (some part of) the heavens, or below (under the earth) I will not pronounce. Yea I had rather be ignorant thereof, then roshly to define that, which I find not expressed in the Scriptures. In these things, as I will not be curious, so do I determine nothing, neither will I contend with any man about this matter. It shall suffice me to understand and confess, that the godly of the old Testament were in a certain place of rest not in terments before the oscension of Christ, though I know not where that place was. That it was no part nor member of hell, we have S. 
p .  Augustine's firm resolution, grounding himself on the words, which our Saviour in the Gospel ascribeth to Abraham. 
q Luke 16.  Between you and us there is a great gulf setl●…d. But whether it were under the earth till Christ's resurrection, of that some fathers doubted; wherein we may not be reproachful to them, though we descent from them, since the Scriptures, as this great Divine thinketh, expressly decide not the question.  

r Defence pag 20. li. ●….  Ignatius you think is clearly yours: likewise one Thaddeus, by Eusebius report, one of the 70. disciples, which the Evangelist Luke speaks of. Also Athanasius Creed. Ignati●… saying Christ des●…ended to hades alone, but rose again with many, meaneth evidently his burial, and going down into his grave: as you acknowledge that hades many times may well signify.] With the septuagint, that were Jews, (and translated the old Testament 
Hades with Ignatius is not the grave.  out of Hebrew into Greek almost 300. years before Christ's birth) I said indeed Hades stood aswell for the grave as for hell, even as the Pagans also did use it: but the Evangelists and Apostles retaining a difference between Thanatos, death, and Hades, take Hades for hell, and never for the grave: whose example the Greek Divines do follow; and therefore Hades with them doth not signify the grave, but the place where the wicked are tormented after death, as it doth in the Gospel of S. Luke. Secondly the words of Ignatius agree not with that in Matthew, by which you would expound them. For Matthew saith, 
s Matth. 27.  the graves did open (at Christ's death) and many bodies of the Saints, that slept, arose; and coming out of their graves, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, after his resurrection, came into the holy city, and appeared to many. They did not rise with Christ, but after him, as 
t August. ep. 99  Austen well expoundeth it; that Christ alone might be 
u 1. Cor. 1.  the first fruits, and 
x Colos. 1.  first borne from the dead. And therefore Ignatius did not speak this of Christ's resurrection, but of his ascension, even as Thaddeus did in the self same sort. 
y Euseb. Eccle. hist. li. 1. ca 13.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He descended alone (to Hades) but he ascended to his Father with a great multitude. That Ignatius here noteth Christ's burial in none 
z Defenc. pag. 201. li. 15.  other words besides; If you mean in the same sentence, there was no cause nor need he should; if you mean in the same place, it is not true: for the next sentence sauc one is this. 
a Ignat. epist. ad Trallianos.  The day before the Sabbaoth at the third hour Christ received sentence of condemnation from Pilate, at the sixth hour he was crucified, at the ninth he breathed out his spirit, and before the Sunset he was laid in his grave. The Sabbaoth day he stayed under the earth in his grave; and at the dawning of the Lords day he rose from the dead. But that Ignatius words can not be verified of Christ's burial, is evident by the very purport of the words themselves, he descended to hades alone, saith Ignatius. To his grave Christ descended not alone. Those that were crucified with him, were buried at the same time with him. Besides he descended alone, is as much as of his own accord, and by his own force, no man helping, or accompanying him; which was not the manner of his burial. For his body was buried by others, and could not of itself descend to the grave. His descending to hades was a voluntary action, even as his ascending from it was; which in a dead body no man can imagine. Lastly the wall never broken before, can not be understood of the grave, since from the grave some others rose long before the death and birth of Christ, as is plain by the story of him, that was 
b 2. Kings 13.  cast dead into Eliseus' grave, and of 
c john 11.  Lazarus.  
feign you would slubber up these things, but they hang in your teeth, and will not go down. [The power of the grave, or the strength of death, which remained indeed from the beginning of the world as a mighty wall not broken down, was now (you say) by Christ's death utterly overcome and dissolved.] In this answer you enclose three untruths. First, 
The wall of hades never broken but by Christ.  Christ never descended into the power of the grave, nor strength of death, as you conceive; they had no power or dominion over him, he breathed out his own soul at his own pleasure; to be resumed again when pleased himself; though for the proof of his death to be true and unfeigned, he was content his body should lie in the grave till the third day. Again, the power of the grave or strength of death was no wall unbroken from the foundation of the world. Many rose from the dead before Christ, and some were translated, that 
d Heb. 11. v. 5.  they should not see death. Thirdly, it is not yet, as you affirm, utterly over come and dissolved. For the bodies of the Saints are under it, and so shall be till the last day; when the wicked shall rise from their graves aswell as the Saints, though not to heavenly bliss, as they shall. Besides this, the words as well of Ignatius, as these of Thaddeus, must be performed between Christ's descent to hades and his resurrection. For so Eusebius reporteth the words of Thaddeus. 
e Eusebij hist. li. 1. cap. 13.  Christ descended to hades, and broke the wall never broken before since the world began. And rose again, and raised the dead, which had slept from the beginning. Hades then hath a partition, which never man broke, as Abraham told the rich man: Only Christ, who was God and man, voluntarily descended thither, and with his return thence broke the wall, that was never broken before.  

f Defenc. pag. 202. li. 4.  Though some being dead did rise to life again before Christ's resurrection. (as touching the time) yet the virtue and power of Christ's resurrection was before them, by which only and merely they rose again. Neither yet was resurrection to al●… the dead forthwith performed by the resurrection of Christ: nevertheless purchased it was even then, and by the only power and virtue thereof is and shallbe performed to all in d●…e time. You would seem in this to answer me, but indeed you refute yourself. For you confeste, that this partition between death and life was often broken before Christ's resurrection, b●…it the power of Christ's resurrection, you say, was before them, by which only they rose again. But both Ignatius and Thaddens say, it was never broken before the time, that Christ descended to hades. They therefore do not mean the grave, as you do. If you say, the grave was a partition to stay men from heaven till Christ was risen, then were not the souls of the Saints in heaven, whose bodies were in the grave, which is repugnant to your own position. So that the grave, neither hindering the body from life, nor the soul from heaven before Christ's coming, was not the wall unbroken till Christ's descent to hades, of which these ancient writers speak. Our resurrection was purchased by Christ's death, and openly confirmed, and assured to us by Christ's resurrection; but since it shall not be performed unto us till the last day, this wall is not vet actually broken down to all Christ's elect, no more than death is abolished to them, which is the last enemy, that shallbe destroyed, but is not yet sub●…ected under Christ's feet in respect of his members, which do and shall l●…e in thei●… graves to the end of the world. Neither doth the Apostle call Christ the first fruits of the dead, (as you intent) because others, who rose from the grave before Christ, did rise by the virtue and power of his resurrection: you commit herein a double error. Christ was truly the first, that ever rose from death to an immortal and celestial life, and the power and force of his resurrection bringeth not men back to a mortal and miserable life in this world, but to be conformed to his glorious body, that is, to incorruption and immortality.  
ᵍ Thus I understand your Thaddeus, also Athanasius in his Creed (as it seemeth most 
p Defence pag. 202.  reasonably and necessarily) because they express neither his death nor his burial at all in any other words save these, he descended to hades. You run so fast on your own conceits, that you see not what you pass by. Hath Thaddeus no words touching Christ's death? what make you then of these scant a line before; 
q Euseb. hist. li. 1. ca 13.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, how Christ humbled himself and died? And though the Creed, provided for the simpler sort, distinguisheth Christ's crucifying, death, burial, and descent to hell; yet what need is there, that the learned every time they talk of Christ's cross or death, should number all these severally and orderly as they stand in the Creed? crucifying is enough to note his death, for they crucified him unto death. Christ's burial had in it no more but the certainty of his death, and by God's providence the vigilanc●…e of his enemies, that his body should not be thought to be stolen away by his own Disciples. Other moment or matter of our redemption there was none in Christ's burial. The goodly words, with which you would feed us, that in the grave he came under the power, strength, dominion, and kingdom of death, are rather variations for a novice, than any points of sensible doctrine for a divine. So that Athanasius expressing Christ's suffering for our salvation, his descending to hades, and rising the third day from the dead, fully compriseth all the principal works, which Christ performed for our salvation from his cross to his resurrection. Now what Athanasius meaneth by hades, since his works are extant in Greek, we shall not need to depend on your partial conjectures. We have many plain and perspicuous places, which deliver his sense and meaning unto us. I have showed before, which I must not so often repeat, that Athanasius maketh two places of condemnation, whither man after death was adjudged for sin: 
i Athanas. de ●…car. Christ's.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the grave and hades. And of Christ's body and soul he directly saith, 
k Ibidem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The body (of Christ) went to the grave, the soul to hades: these places being divided with a great distance: and the grave receiving the presence of his body, (for there was his body present) and hades receiving his (human) spirit. Think you this to be plain enough, that Christ's descent to hades was not his burial, where his body lay; but the going of his soul to hades, whither man was condemned for sin, and which Athanasius saith, The Devil kept as the only place of his strength? The enemy saith he, fallen from heaven, removed from the earth, expelled from the air; 
l Idem in passione●… & crucem Domini.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; every where vanquished, determined, if he could, to keep hades safe. For this place was yet left unto him. But 
m Ibidem.  as soon as Christ died, the world wanted the light of her Sun, the vail of the temple rend, the earth trembled, the Rocks did cleave in sunder, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and the soldiers together with the keepers of Hades did shake for fear 
n Ibidem.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. And the Devil thi●…ing to carry (Christ) to hades, was himself thrown out of hades. 
o Ibid.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. For it was not long after, but (Christ) loosed the (sorrows or) pains of hades. Athanasius then without peradventures taketh hades for hell, and Christ's descent thither in soul to work the subversion of Satan's kingdom, and deliverance of all his elect thence, were they living, dead, or yet unborn.  

p Defenc. pag. 202. li. 27.  Your seeking to pervert this reason because the ancient Creeds want sundry other Articles, which now are in our Creed, is to no purpose. For so much as they all do evermore intend to set down perfectly the sum of Christ's accomplished Redemption and mediation at the least. Not any of those his main works are in them omitted.] If your pride were not greater than your skill, we should have a great deal less prating from you. 
The ancient Creeds are imperfect in words.  How shall the Reader believe your report of Fathers and their meanings, when you never saw so much as the Creeds of the ancient Counsels, and yet pronounce so boldly of them, as if you had perused them all but yesterday. The great Nicene Creed maketh no mention of Christ's death or burial; but saith. 
q Symbolum Niceni concilij.  He suffered, and rose the third day. The first general Council of Constantinople, whose Creed was after used in the Church Service, saith; Christ 
r Symbolum Constantinop.  suffered, and was b●…ied, and rose the third day; omitting his crucifixion and death. The great Council 
s Concil.  of Aphrica, and the general Council of 
t Concilium Ephes. ca 13.  Ephesus concur with the Nicene, and say, he suffered, and rose the third day. What truth then is there in your words, where you say, they all 
Aphrica. ca 104.  do evermore intend perfectly to set down the Sum of Christ's Redemption for us; not any of those his main works are in them omitted? Is the death of Christ none of his main works for our Redemption? find you now, that his burial may be omitted, and yet the Creed not be imperfect? These things, good Sir, are implied as consequent or antecedent to the parts expressed. For if Christ did rise the third day, he rose from the Grave, where he had lain three days; and buried he was not, before he was dead. As also he rose not but from the dead. Wherefore in his resurrection are both his death and his burial comprised. Besides he suffered unto death. Which things were all plainly proposed to the simple in their Creed called Aposto like, but not in the Creeds concluded by the learned Pastors in their Counsels. The same course kept the Greek and Latin Fathers, sometimes expressing Christ's death, burial, and descent to hell: sometimes omitting some of them, as the cause required. Epiphanius saith, 
u Epiphanius in ●…eresium Anacephalai●…st.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Christ saith he speaking of the things as they were done, is crucified, buried, he descended to the places under the earth in his Deity and in his soul, he leadeth Captivity Captive, and riseth the third day. Vigilius. 
x Vigilius contra 〈◊〉. li. 2. ca 3.  Constat Dominum nostrum jesum Christum sexta feria crucifixum, & ipsa die ad Infernum descendisse, ipsa die in sepul●…hris iacuisse, ipsa die Latroni dixisse, hody mecum eris in Paradiso. It is certain, that our Lord jesus Christ was crucified on the sixth day, and that day descended to hell, that day lay in the grave; and that day said to the These; This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise. And declaring how this was verified in Christ; 
y Ibidem.  ergo dicimu●… Dominum iacuisse in sepulchro, sed in sola carne, & Dominum descendisse ad infernum, sed in sola anima. Then we say, that the Lord lay in his grave, but with his Body alone, and descended to hell, but with his Soul alone, without his Body.  

z Defence pag. 203. li. 2.  Howbeit to speak plainly your Thaddeus whom you so highly esteem, is a mere counterfeit. You say this report of him in Eusebius by some men is counted fabulous. Nay who ever since Eusebius, I think, held it for better?] Were there no more in it but the records of Edessa then remaining, and the report of Eusebius translating the same, they fairly prove this clause of Christ's descending to Hades, to have been anciently 
Eusebius report allowed by the best Historiographers.  and openly received and professed in the Primative Church. Otherwise the religious of those Ages, that lived with and after Eusebius, if he had under this pretence broached any new point of faith; as in duty they were bound, so no doubt they would have resisted and refuted it. But the whole Church accepting and allowing that History, hath likewise admitted and approved this Article of Christ's descent to Hades, to be a part of the Christian faith; and the best learned of those times in their writings acknowledge the same. And where you ask, Who ever since Eusebius held it for better than a fable; it is a sign how little conversant you are in any man's labours, that fit not your licentious humours. Your own Author, on which you so much build, Ruffinus translated these books of Eusebius, 
a Hi●…ro. de Ecclesiast. Scriptoribus in Euselao.  jerom commended them, and 
b D●…inct. 15. Sancta Romana.  Gelasius an ancient Bishop of Rome with a Council confirmed them. And touching this very History, Nicephorus largely reporteth it, and many of the best Historiographers before our time allege it; not as fable, but for a truth. As namely, Blondus Decadis 2. li. 5. Nauclerus volumine 2. generat. 2. Sabellicus Enneadis 7. li. 1. Volateranus. geographiae li. 11. de Sectis Syriae: Martinus Polonus in Friderico 1. Platina in Lucio 2. I am not alone then in allowing Eusebius report; 
c Nicephor. li. 2. ca 7.  but you rather are so headstrong and withal so ignorant, that you censure all men besides yourself.  

d Defenc. pag. 203. li. 9  It is all forged and foully corrupted for these reasons: First this writing saith that judas the Apostle was the same, who was also called Thomas the Apostle. But the Scripture itself showeth that judas and Thomas were divers and several Apostles. When you go about to challenge a record, never corrupt it; for so you challenge yourself, and not that 
How Thomas might be called judas.  which you would overthrow. The writing doth not say, that those two Apostles were one, as you dream; but rather observeth that with them, Thomas had two names. Now what inconvenience is in this, that one Apostle should have two names, or that they should call Thomas also judas? Peter had three, if not four names: Simon, 
e Galat. 2.  Cephas, Peter & Bar-Ionas, and 
f Acts 1.  judas the brother of james Matthew calleth 
g Matth. 10.  Lebbeus and Thaddeus. Matthew was also called 
h Mark. 2.  Levi. It was a thing most usual with the jews to have two or more names, as appeareth in the genealogy of Christ rehearsed by Matthew and Luke, who use many words in that Catalogue, no where recorded in other Scriptures. And since Thom in Hebrew, whence Thomas cometh, doth signify no more but a Twin, which name is common to both the brethren borne at one time; it must needs be that Thomas then had an other name to distinguish him from his brother. This therefore is no just exception, to discredit that ancient Record with a thing most usual among the jews. Again with the Syria●… not skilful in the Hebrew tongue, how easy a skip was it in steed of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a jew, to conceive 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 jehudah, which is judas; (he and jod being letters, that are often changed one from another:) and where the writer would have said; a Ie●… which was Thomas ●…nt Thaddeus, so to set it down as if it were jehuda, which was Thomas, sent Thaddeus. Yea the Syriack words for a jew and judas, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differ but a ●…od, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which in ancient writings is soon worn out of sight: I omit other diuersiti●…s, which might easily happen in the Greek; as that Iu●…as sent Thaddeus, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which al●… Thomas did, one small title added to the Article to make it the ●…uter relative; or changing their places, & saying, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, judas and also Thomas sent Thaddeus. There is neither Greek nor Latin Father, in whose Treatises I will not readily find greater st●…ps. This I may conjecture, because 
i Nicephor. li. 2. ca 40.  Nicephorus writeth, that judas the brother of james came after to the City of Edessa, the City of king Abaga●…e which also 
k Bed●… in 1. ca Acto●…um.  Bede and 
l Oecumen. prolegom●… in Acta.  Oecumenius do witness and supplying what wanted in Thaddeus ministery, there ended his life, and so might be one of those that sent him. But you that think this so great a matter in the records of Edessa, what say you to the Syriack translator of the new Testament, who twice calleth this judas the Apostle, the 
m Luke 6.  
m Acts 1.  son of james, where indeed he was the brother of james, and the Son of Alpheus? If you will excuse him, for that he never saw the Epistle of Jude, where he calleth himself the 
n judae epist.  brother of james: how great reason then is it to excuse the men of Edessa, that were ignorant of the Hebrew tongue, and altogether unacquainted with the Scriptures at that time, when this was written; if they put he for Iod, which letters are often permuted the one for the other? howbeit, as I first said, I see no ground of any just challenge in this, that the record, which is ancient, importeth Thomas to be called judas in the place where he lived and died far from jewrie, which was a thing very common among the jews in their own country: or Thomas to be called a jew, and thereby to distinguish him from others that were not jews.  

o Defenc. pag. 20●…. li 16.  Secondly we may probably conceive another error, that this Thaddeus (one of the 70.) seeme●…h to be mistaken in the Syrian writing for Thaddeus one of the twelve Apostles.] This is rather an error in you to think, that none were called Apostles but the twelve, or 
More Apostles than twelve.  that Apostle doth not sometimes signify a Messenger. Christ himself is called the 
p Hebr. 3.  Apostle of our profession. Paul saith to the Philippians, 
q Philip. 2.  Epaphroditus your Apostle; and to the Corinthians he saith of some sent by him with Titus, 
r Corinth. 8.  They are the Apostles of the Churches. And to the Romans he 
s Rom. 16.  saluteth Andronicus and junia, which are honourable 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in the (number of the) Apostles. He challengeth others for 
t 2. Cor. 11.  transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ, not that they affirmed themselves to be of the twelve, (for Paul himself was none of them) but they pretended to be sent of Christ, when they were not. And so Christ meant when he said to the Angel of Ephesus, 
u revel. 2.  Thou hast examined them which say they are Apostles, & are not; that is which say, I sent them, when I did not. Now the Syriack writer taking knowledge, that Thomas was 
x Eusebij li. 1. ca 13.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, an Apostle one of the twelve, and that he sent Thaddeus, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, his brother one of the number of the 70. Disciples of Christ: how could he after err so much, as to mean that Thaddeus was one of the twelve Apostles, specially the next words being: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, one of the seventy. Wherefore this is worse than a ca●…ill, when the words infer no such thing to collect contrarieties upon your own conceits. He sent Thaddeus, as Christ's messenger, (or their Apostle) being one of the seventy.  

y Defenc. pag. 203. li. 18.  Further this counterfeit Thaddeus was content to receive (and did receive) even from a king himself and also (as it seemeth) from one of his nobles Adoration and worship. Whereas the true servants of Christ Peter and the Angel refused utterly the same in such very manner offered unto them by meaner persons in respect of state. Therefore this Thaddeus was some false Apostle; and came not by Christ's sending.] By this reason, if it were any thing worth, you may prove many patriarchs and Prophets to be idolaters, and aswell receivers, as givers of that adoration, which you suppose is due to God alone. Omit, that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here used, is with Suidas and Phavorinus as much as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to approach or draw near to a man: and that Budeus observeth it in the eccleasticall history to be taken for a reverend salutation; and so the King approached, or reverently saluted Thaddeus; let it stand for bowing the body, which is a sign of reverence or submission in the Scriptures; what infer you thence? that the King, beholding the face of Thaddeus at his entrance in to shine with a strange and divine brightness, did him reverence contrary to the custom of Kings, which receive from others, and give not reverence to others? If you think this word, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he bowed himself to Thaddeus, is more than the godly may yield to men, or take from men; you foolishly deceive yourself. Of Abraham the Scripture saith, that speaking with the Hittites for a place to bury his dead, upon their gentle and friendly answer,  

z Genes. 23. vers. 7.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he bowed himself to the people of the Land. Of jacob when he met his Brother Esau, the Scripture saith, 
a Genes. 33.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; he bowed himself to the earth seven times: So 
b Ibid. vers. 7. & 6.  Leah and her children, Rachel and joseph, Jacob's maids and their children, every troop of them, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bowed themselves to Esau. Moses said to Pharaoh, 
c Exod. 11.  all these (thy) servants shall come down to me, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and shall bow themselves to me. So afterward Moses went out to 
d Exod. 18.  meet his Father in Law, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and gently or reverently saluted him. Infinite are the places in Scripture, where the word is used in that sense; and noteth the dutiful, friendly, or favourable respect had to Superiors, Equals, and Inferiors by bowing the Body. Now whether it were meet for a King gently to entreat, or reverently to receive the Messenger of Christ, directed to him to cure himself of his sickness in this life, and to give him assurance of eternal life, being no subject of his, but a stranger sent unto him; this is all that can be doubted. Wherein though I be most willing to reserve to Princes, not only their Sovereignty over their Subjects, but their dignity towards strangers, yet see I no cause, but when they receive any special graces or blessings of God by the hands of men not subjecteth to them, they should adore the giver, which is God; and acknowledge the bringer. 
e Lnke. 10.  He that despiseth you, de●…seth me, saith our Saviour excepting no man. The Apostle commendeth the Galathians for 
f Galat. 4.  receiving him as an Angel of God; and chargeth the faithful to receive their godly Pastors 
g Philip. 2.  with all joy in the Lord, and to have them in honour. You and your adherents, when you take upon you to censure Princes in your Consistories, will not absolve them without some sign of submission, such as you like. And call you Thaddeus, sent of purpose to cure a Prince of his bodily and ghostly diseases, a false Apostle because the good King glad of his coming rose from his Seat, and bowed to him, as to the Servant and Messenger of so great a Lord and Benefactor, as he believed Christ to be?  
Peter and the Angel, you say, utterly refused the same in such very manner offered 
Angels and good ●…en have received the bowing of the body.  unto them by meaner persons.] Have you so little good manner, that you know not the difference betwixt bowing the body as Abraham did to the Sons of CHETHS, and MOSES to JETHRO; and falling flat at an others feet to give him worship, as Cornelius did to Peter, and S. john to the Angel? of Cornelius Luke saith, 
h Acts. 10.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, falling at (Peter) feet, he worshipped him. And Saint john saith of himself, 
i revel. 19  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. And I fell down at his feet to worship him. This the Angel refused in john; but the bowing of the Body even to the ground the two Angels refused not from 
k Genes. 19  Loath; and Christ himself said to the Angel of Philadelphia; 
l revel. 3.  Behold I will make them of the Synagogue of Satan, which call themselves Jews and are not, to come, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and bow themselves at thy feet. Yea David, when he was a private man, gave this kind of reverence to 
m 1. Sam. 24. ve●…s. 9  Saul; and being a King received it of 
n 1. Sam. 25. ve●…s. 23.  Abigail; 
o 2. Sam. 9 vers. 6.  Mephibosheth, 
p 2. Sam. 14.  joab, 
p 2. Sam. 14.  Absalon, 
q 2. Sam. 18.  Ahimaas, 
r 2. Sam. 24.  Aranah, and from 
s 1. King. 1.  Nathan the Prophet: which if it wholly pertained to God, could not be given to men nor Angels without danger of Idolatry. But the devotion of the hart joined with the submission of the body, and testified thereby, is adoration due to God alone; and differeth much from civil courtesy and duty reserved for Magistrates, friends, and strangers. Since than there is no such thing reported of Thaddeus, that the King fell at his feet, why compare you these examples together, which are so far distant each from other? of Abdus the Son of Abdus it is said, that having the gout, (and therefore not able to stand) 
t Eusebij li. 1. ca 13.  he fell at the feet of Thaddeus, and with prayers & laying on of hands was healed. Where perchance you will mislike, that Abdus was suffered to kneel, whiles prayers were said over him; & hands imposed on him, that he might recou●…r; but since this submission was to God, and not to man, and dured the time, that prayers were made to God for him; I see no just cause of condemning Thaddeus for suffering men to kneel, whiles they asked aught at God's hands.  
Now what if this were proffered to Thaddeus, doth that prove, he therefore accepted it? had he written the Story of himself, it had been his duty, ●…ot only to refuse that, which was unlawful, (if it were more than was permitted to the servants of Christ, which we do not know) but to witness his refusal. But others not then well acquainted with Christian Religion being the writers thereof, how easily might they report the one, and omit the other? Look to the Story of Daniel, and see whether he doth not say of himself, that 
u Daniel. 2. vers. 46.  King Nabnchad-nezzar fell upon his face, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and bowed himself to Daniel, and willed them to offer Sacrifice, and sweet odours unto him. This the King proffered by daniel's own confession and though we do not doubt but Den●…el refused it, and otherwise advised the king; yet there is no such thing recorded in the Text. Hence if you will conclude Daniel to be a false Prophet, you shall show yourself to be a rash, false and wicked teacher: but if you will excuse him, because he was one that feared God, and knew his duty, though there be no mention made of his denial; what spleen moveth you to condemn Thaddeus, being not himself the writer of the Story, and one that was not only trained up in Moses Law, but a Disciple of Christ's, and sent by him to preach, and which more is, endued with the power of the holy Ghost to heal the sick, to plant the Gospel, and convert nations unto the faith?  

x Defenc. pag. 203. 27.  Fourthly, I do not see how it can possibly be true which this Thaddeus saith, that Christ ascended up to his Father with a great multitude; seeing the Scripture showeth how after forty days he ascended in all their sights alone up to heaven.] Might Christ do nothing, but he must first acquaint you with it, that you take so strait a view, who went up to heaven with him? The Apostle noteth that God said of his Son, when he brought him into the world, 
y Hebr ●….  Let all the Angels of God worship him. Can you tell when this was done? Christ 
z Coloss 2.  spoiled powers, saith Paul, and principalities, and made an open show of them. It would trouble you to tell; how, where, and when. So, Christ 
a ●…phes. 4.  ascending on high, led captivity captive. Who knoweth how far, or how many? that he ascended to his Father with a multitude, may be referred either to Angels, or men. If all the Angels adored him, when he came into the world; what did they, when he ascended to heaven? Nazianzen saith, 
b  If Christ ascend to heaven, ascend thou with him; and join thyself to the Angels, that accompany him or receive him. So Cyprian. 
c  Non indiget vectoribus Angelis, sed precedentes & subsequentes applaudebant victori. Christ ascending needed not Angels to bear him, but they going before and following applauded him as a conqueror. And Austen. 
d August. in Psal. 90.  Sublatus est Christus in manibus Ang●…lorum, quando assumptus est in caelum, non quia, si non portarent Angeli, ruiturus erat; s●…d quia obsequebantur Regi. Christ was carried up by the hands of the Angels when he ascended to heaven not that he should have fallen, if he had not been stayed by Angels; but that they might serve their King. And touching men, why might not Thaddeus speak this of those, that were raised out of their graves, when Christ rose from the dead, since they were partakers of Christ's resurrection, why should they be rejected from his ascension? They rose from the dead, not to die again, much less to be left wandering on the earth. Ascend before Christ they could not, he was in all things as the head to have the pre-eminence. Then must they ascend with him, or after him; neither of which is expressly mentioned in the Scriptures. It appeareth by Tertullian, the Church in his time was opposite to his conceit, and made him this answer; 
e Tertull. de anima. ca 55.  Our abode after death, (which there is called sleeping.) is in Paradise, quò iam tunc & Patriarch●… & Prophetae appendices dominicae resurrectionis ab inferis migraverunt; whither the patriarchs and Prophets, that were dependants on the Lord's resurrection, p●…ssed even then (with him) FROM THE PLACES BELOW. Cyprian saith of Christ, 
f Cyprian. de resurrectione Christ's.  spolians Inferos, & captivos praemittens ad superos, spoiling the places below, and sending the captives before towards heaven. Austen saith, 
g August. de tempore sermo. 138.  Reddunt Infernavictorem, & superna suscipiunt triumphantem. Hell restoreth him a conqueror, and heaven receiveth him a Triumpher. Where then the Apostle saith, that 
h Coloss. 2.  Christ triumphed over powers and principalities in his own person, and likewise that he 
i Eph●…s. 4.  ascended on high, leading captivity captive, which proveth his ascent to heaven to be the fullness and perfection of his triumph: since triumphs amongst mortal men are not secret nor solitary; shall we think that Christ's triumphant ascension 
Triumphs are not solitary.  to heaven was the close conveying of him alone into heaven, neither Angels, nor man attending, nor magnifying him? or rather, as Peter saith, 
k 1. Peter 3.  he went to hea●…n, having Angels, powers, and mights subjecteth to him, that is all sorts and orders, were they never so excellent, high, or mighty; serving, submitting, confessing, and applauding his human nature, as the subduer of all his enemies, and Saviour of all his Elect?  
Where you would feign persuade the world, that the 
l Defenc. pag. 201. li. 4.  Apostles Creed was not in the primitive Churches, which we have now, yea that at ●…irst it had no exact for me at all; This is the way to discredit all things besides your own devices. You may say as much against some parts of the Scriptures, as you do against some parts of the Creed. 
Some Scriptures ●…ncertaine for a t●…me as well as the Creed.  For the Scriptures themselves were not fully received in all places, no not in Eusebius time. He saith, the 
m ●…useb ecclesiast. ●…istor. 3 li.. ca 25.  Epistle of james, of Jude, the second of Peter, the second and third of john, are contradicted; as not written by those Apostles. The Epistle to the Hebrews was for a while 
n Ibidem. li 3. ca 4.  contradicted by the Church of Rome not to be Paul's. Eusebius report is the truer, because the Churches of Syria did not receive the second Epistle of Peter, nor the second and third of john, nor the Epistle of Jude, nor the Apocalypse; as appeareth to this day by the translation of the new Testament into their tongue, which wanteth all these books, as no approved parts of Scripture. The like might be said for the Churches of Arabia. Will you hence conclude, that these parts of Scripture were not apostolic, or that we need not receive them now, because they were formerly doubted of? The Creed we do not urge, as undoubtedly written by all the Apostles, for than it must needs be Canonical Scripture; but we urge it as the best and perfectest form of faith, which was delivered to the Christians at the first planting of the Gospel by the direction and agreement of the Apostles, and kept and professed in some of the most famous places; which when the Church of Christ had well considered and examined, she received and preferred before all others. Now that this form of faith, which we have, was both in ancient times, and divers places preserved and professed as coming from the first erectors of the Churches; you have seen the testimonies of cyril for jerusalem, of chrysostom for Antioch, of Austen for Africa, of Ruffian for Aquileia, of Venantius for Poitiers: and this very Article, he descended to hell, is by them witnessed to have been then in their Creeds: of whom no doubt can be made, save of Austen only, because he sometimes repeateth the Creed without that clause, which yet he confesseth to be a main point of the Christian faith.  
That in all places they did vary from this form, though you pretend the names of Ignatius, Irenaeus, justine, Tertullian, Origen, etc. yet they prove no such thing. These Fathers do often, as learned discoursers, enlarge the parts of the Creed; & sometimes, as short comprisers of it, they contract the sum thereof into fewer words: but yet 
Twelve parts of the Creed.  the most, and most famous churches had from the beginning a brief collection of the Christian faith delivered to the simple people to be learned and said by heart, before they could be baptised. Of this do many learned and ancient Fathers bear witness. 
o Ambros. serm. 38.  Duodecim Apostolorum Symbolo sides sancta concepta est. In the Creed of the twelve Apostles, saith Ambrose, is the holy faith conceived (or comprised.) So Leo 
p Leo epist. 13. ad Pa●…cheriam.  Catholici Symbolibrevis & perfecta confessio d●…odecim Apostolorum totidem est signata sententijs. The short and perfect confession of the Catholic Creed is seal●…d up with twelve sentences of the twelve Apostles. So jerom. 
q Hiero. ●…p 61. add 〈◊〉 ca●…. 9  In the Creed of our faith and hope, which being delivered from the Apostles is not written in paper and ●…ke, but in the tables of men's hearts, after the confession of the Trinity, and unity of the Church, all the mysteries of Christian Religion are closed up with the resurrection of the ●…lesh. Isidore saith, 
r Is●…orus de e●…lesiast. offi●…s li. 2. ca 3.  the Apostles ready to depart one from another, Normam prius sibi futurae praedicationis in common constituunt: appoint first in common a sum of that they would preach, lest s●…uered in di●…ers places, they ●…ould propose any divers or dissonant thing to those, whom they brought to the 
●…ertull. de 〈◊〉 virgi●…us.  ●…ith of Christ. Rabanus Ma●…rus de Institutione clericorum li. 2. ca 56. hath the very same words. Neither could Tertullian, whose name you use, have truly said, ʳ Reg●… fidei un a omnino est, sola immobilis, & irreformabilis; there is but one rule of faith, and only that immovable and unchangeable, unless there had been some form of faith received in the Church, which no man might alter or change. For how could he say there is but ONE RULE, if every Church had a several rule? Or how was it immovable or irreformable, if there were no certain words or parts, but every man might alter at his will? Tertullian therefore doth not repeat the words of the Creed, which he varieth in every place where he citeth it, but he pointeth to the chief parts thereof; no where keeping the same words, but in substance the same matter. Against Praxeas the heretic he saith; 
t Tertull. adverse. Praxeam.  Hanc regulam ab initio evangelii decurrisse: This rule (of faith) hath had continuance from the beginning of the Gospel. Against heretics in general he saith, 
u Idem de praescriptionibus adversus haereticos.  Haec regula à Christo probabitur instituta: This rule shall be proved to have bee●…e appointed by Christ. And yet in these two places he keepeth not the same words, but the same heads, and as it were the same principles of faith. As likewise both these differ in words from that rule, which he cited before, being 
x Idem de velandis virginibus.  omnino una, every where one, and by no means alterable. Irenaeus saith. 
y Irenaeus li. 5. cap. 2.  The Church throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, recea●…ed from the Apostles and their Disciples, that faith which be bele●…eth in one God, the Father almighty maker of heaven & earth, etc.: and in jesus Christ the Son of God, incarnate for our salvation: and in the holy spirit, which preached by the Prophets the dispensation and coming of God; and the birth of Christ our Lord by the Virgin, his p●…ssion, resurrection, and ascension with his flesh into heaven; and his coming from heaven in the glory of his Father to recapitulate all: to raise up all flesh; and to give just judgement in all. 
z Ib. dem li. 1. ca 3.  Th●… faith the Church disp●…rsed through the world, having received, faithfully keepeth, and constantly teacheth, and delivereth these things as it were with one mouth. For though there be different languages in the world, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Yet the sum and effect of the tradition (or faith delivered) is one and the same. Neither do the Churches in Germany otherwise believe or otherwise teach, nor those in Spain, nor those in France, nor those in the East, nor those in Egypt, nor those in Africa, nor those in the midst of the world. So that all the churches in the world had one and the same tradition and rule of faith; and though the words in some places did differ, yet in sense they agreed, and the chiefer the churches were, the more was their care to preserve this Creed not written, as jerom and others confess, but delivered and received by hart even from the Apostles and their Disciples.  
And since the Church of Rome, than one of the most famous Churches in the world, kept this Creed comprised in twelve sentences according to the number of the twelve Apostles, as Leo testifieth not long after Ru●…ines time; and Ambrose said the same in effect even in Ru●…ines time, and other Churches likewise both East and West had & retained the same from their first foundation, as Irenaeus witnesseth; It can not be, but the Creed, which we have at this day, was the very same which the primitive churches had and kept; and these ancient Fathers that allege the authority thereof, bring not every where the exact words, but the chief parts and grounds thereof, as appeareth by Tertullian who saith; The Rule, or Creed, is one and unchangeable. notwithstanding he bringeth three several variations thereof in words. For the clause of Christ's descent to hell, I have said before it was retained in many places, though it wanted in the church of Rome, and some other churches of the East; and no doubt the Church of Rome and the rest conceived no les●…e by Christ's resurrection from the dead, but that he rose conqueror of death and hell, as the prophet foretold he should, in saying: O death, I will be thy death; o hell, I will be thy destruction; as Christ professed he did, when he said, I have the keys of death and hell: and as the great and general Counsels of Ephesus, Chalcedon and Constantinople did expound that Article of the Creed, Christ rose the third day, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 having ●…irst spoiled hell. And upon this resolution of these general Counsels, and not as you dream upon the opinion of Limbus prevailing, the Churches, that wanted that Article which others had, received it into their Creed, as contained there before in force and effect, but now they concurred in one consent of faith and words, which before they did not.  

b Defenc. pag. 205. li. 19  Our third reason is: if there be no certain benefit to the godly by Christ's going to hell, then doubtless he went not thither. But there is no certain benefit to the godly by Christ's going to hell. Therefore doubtless he went not thither.] You profere us reasons very seldom, but when you push them forth, they want all things that should support them. Your mayor here hath no force in it, your minor hath no truth; and so your conclusion is like a forward bud, that shrincketh before it bloweth. That Christ should triumph over powers and principal●…ies, and all knees of those in heaven, earth, and hell bow unto him, was aswell for his sovereignty, as for our safety. Your mayor then must have both those parts in it, that if Christ's descent thither were neither for his glory not our good, then was it needless. But it was both. He was to rise superior to all his and our enemies, that as in the cross he submitted his life to the rage & fury of Satan & his members, so when he rose he might be made Lord over heaven, earth and hell. It was therefore his right to have the keys of death and hell, whereby Satan's kingdom aswell in hell as in earth should be subjecteth to the power of his human nature, which could not be but beneficial for us, whose redeemer and Saviour he was. Again what need is there that you should know the depth of God's counsels, and reason of Christ's doings in every thing, as though you were to take an account of him, what cause he had to do, as he did? If the Scripture bear witness, that Christ's soul was not left in hell, though we could not discern the precise purpose of his descent thither, we may not therefore reject it as superfluous. But what say you to those two main points expressed in Scripture; the destroying of Satan, and delivering of us from fear of death, which Christ performed by his death? [
b Pag 206. li. 11.  The benefits all and every one, (which you every where rehearse) I most unfeignedly and religiously believe: but what is this to his local being in hell?] You acknowledge the words, but not the deeds of Christ's destroying and spoiling Satan, through, but not after his death: and so in name, but not in proof you make him Lord over hell, as where he never showed the power and prerogative of his human nature, but only by taking his body from the grave. Now this doth not answer the real and actual subduing of Satan's strength and kingdom mentioned in the Scriptures with so magnificent and evident words, as the Apostle useth; that Christ led captivity captive, and made an open show of powers and principalities, and triumphed over them in his own person. You call these 
c Pag. 2●…6. li. 19  blasts of vanity, because I say they were performed on every part of Satan's kingdom, and even in the place where his chiefest strength and power was, which was hell: but your replies are rather beesoms of infidelity, which would sweep away whatsoever the Apostle saith of Christ's most glorious triumph over Satan and his whole kingdom, with the taking of his flesh out of the grave, where it lay dead; and ascribe no more to Christ's conquest over death and hell, than you do to all the faithful, when they shallbe raised from the earth to the fruition of eternal life. This I say is not sufficient in Christ's person. For he must not only be free himself, and the freer of all his from death and hell, but all infernal places and powers were to stoop to him, as Lord of all, when God would bring him to the glory of his resurrection.  

d Defen●… pag. 206. li. 22.  This conquest, you say, Christ purchased by his Passion, but he did not execute it till his resurrection. If he executed nothing till his resurrection, and purchased all by his Passion, than he did nothing in hell. For his resurrection was distinctly after his supposed being in hell.] The Apostles words are plain, that Christ's cross was his humiliation. Christ 
e Philip. 2.  humbled himself being obedient to death, even the death of the cross. Then Christ's Passion and death were parts of his debasing, and not his triumphing over death or hell. After death must his triumph begin, and not before, nor at the time of his breathing out his soul: but when the time of his resurrection came, God loosed the sorrows of death before his human soul, which was not left destitute of glory & sovereignty in hell, and raised his body from the grave, restoring him to life as the subduer and Lord of all his enemies, that is as well of hell as of death. You would calculate the minutes, and see what distance of time there was betwixt the return of Christ's soul from hell, and the raising of his body from the grave; but this is like the rest of your vanities, to be more than audacious in blazing your own devices, and curious in searching God's secrets reserved to himself. What time the soul of Christ ascended to Paradise, or descended to hell, we do not know; we must leave that to God; it sufficeth us, that Christ's Soul by the witness of holy Scripture was not lest in hell, nor his flesh in the grave, but both restored to life as conquerors of death and hell. 
Christ's resurrection showeth his conquest over hell and death.  Christ's resurrection therefore containeth the bringing of hissoule from hell, and the joining of it to his body, that both might be restored to celest●…all and perpetual glory; and consequently the subduing of hell, as his soul returned to his body, is justly reputed a part of the glory of his resurrection. [
f Defenc. pag. 205. li 32.  I would willingly believe you, but alas who saith so besides yourself; or only such as can tell no better than you.] If ancient Fathers and later writers, if provincial & general Counsels did not profess the same that I do, you might believe as you list; but if they all concur, that this is testified in the Scriptures, which you labour to elude with phrases and figures; then pity yourself as stretching and shrinking the Scriptures at your pleasure; pity not me, who have the main consent of all ages, and Christian assemblies (from the Apostles to this very time, wherein we live) to interpret the words of the holy Ghost, as I do; and to make Christ's subduing of hell consequent to his death and precedent to his resurrection. Neither can the Apostles words, (that Ch●…ist 
g Hebr. 2.  through death destroyed him, that had power of death, and delivered all them, which for fear of death were all their life long subject to bondage) have any full or effectual performance, if Christ after death, and before the raising up of his body, did not in that part of his human nature, which lay not in the grave, show himself the conqueror of Satan and his Infernal kingdom, that by Christ's subduing eternal death, and taking the whole power thereof into his hands, we might be assured of our deliverance from that, which we most feared; which was not the death of the body, but the destruction of body and soul in hell fire. This Conquest we both believe; neither may we much differ about 
Christ's manhood must conquer hell.  the time, since it must be through his death, and so after he was dead, and before his resurrection; the manner is all that is questioned, which you say was without any presence of his human soul, and consequently must be referred to his divine nature. I a●…irme the contrary, that this exaltation, to be Lord over heaven, earth and hell; pertained not to Christ's Deity, which never wanted that sovereignty, but to his manhood, which was obedient unto death, and was therefore advanced to this height. And since this conquest over hell was real in proof, not verbal in claim; special to Christ's person, not general to all his members; and performed after Christ's death, not by Christ's divine, but by his human nature; this must needs be referred to Christ's soul; which might descend to hell, and must before it could show itself vanquisher of hell; and not to his body, which lay dead in the grave, and could neither ascend nor descend till it was restored to life. You make Christ Lord over hell, because he kept himself from thence; but so were all the faithful, whose souls were not enclosed in hell; whom yet the Scriptures make not Lords over death and hell, but delivered from both. There must be a conquest peculiar to Christ, whereby he did take all power from them, and reserved it to himself, and rose from death, as having the keys of both. The particular manner whereof in time and other such circumstances, though the Scriptures do not express, yet must not the general be doubted, because the Scriptures witness, that Christ's soul was not left, nor forsaken in hell of Gods divine power and presence, but thence returned as conqueror of all Satan's power and Dominion. This the Church of Christ hath always professed, and this may the godly safely bele●…ue, notwithstanding M. Broughtonsbedlom proclamation, that it is the general corruption of religion, Scripture, and all learning.  

h Defenc. pag. 206. li. 34.  Our fourth reason. There is altogether as great reason, and as urgent cause, that Christ, whole man, (both soul and body) should be present in hell to free us thence wholly (that is our souls and bodies) as there is that his soul must be there present to free thence our souls. here I wish you would answer my proposition without scoffs and taunts and ●…autie disdain, as your manner is.] You cannot mock, and that is great pity. When your propositions want not only proof and truth, but learning and understanding, shall I say they be sage, wise, & Christian resolutions? your devices I call dreams, your contradictions I call contrarieties, your neglect of all Counsels and Fathers I call presumption; and your shifting, and outfacing, affirming that which is false, and d●…nying that which is true, I call unshamefastness, if not impudency. What other names should I give them? I profess I cannot flatter you in your fancies, neither see I any cause, why you regarding no man besides yourself, should think yourself fit to be regarded with the disgrace of all ancients and others. Where the matter is not meet to be rejected with disdain, I use it not; and where it is, why should I not? Yet now you would have a direct and fair answer to your proposition; though you little deserve it, you shall. This which you mention (to wit, our deliverance from hell) was not the only cause of Christ's descent thither, his own honour and right, that suffered shame and wrong at Satan's hand on the cross, was the chie●…e cause of his descent, that after death he might show himself in his manhood the conqueror and destroyer of Satan's power. This you clean leave out of your proposition, because you would be sure to bring nothing that should be sound and sufficient. Again your proposition, as it standeth, hath no strength in it besides your own imagination. For hell once subdued and conquered by Christ needeth not the second time to be conquered. Since then till the day of judgement hell hath no more but the souls of the wicked, (some few excepted who descended alive to hell;) what needed more than the soul of Christ to conquer hell? Thirdly, s●…ing the body is cast into hell to increase the pains of the soul; the soul being acquitted and freed from hell, there is no cause the body should go thither. And so in respect aswell of God's ordinance till the day of doom, as of the soul's pre-eminence in and over the body, the soul of Christ after death might justly discharge our bodies and souls from all the power and claim that Satan had against us. Lastly, the proportion, which Fulgentius, Athanasius, and others mention, as derived from the Scriptures, that as the two parts of man after death were for sin appointed to two several places; his soul to hell, and his body to the grave; so the Redeemer did ●…etch man back again from those two places of condemnation, with the presence of his soul subduing hell, and of his body resisting corruption; this p●…oportion, I say, g●…ounded on the Scriptures is more than you can any way confute, or open your mouth against with any truth.  
You ask, 
s Pag. 2●…7. li. 26.  why this going to hell by our Saviour was not rather af●…er his resurrection, when both pa●…ts were joined together. First, because by death, which is the separating of the soul from the body, Christ was to destroy both death and hell. Next, he was to rise conqueror of them both; and not after his resurrection, which was a conquest 
Christ was to rise full conqueror of hell and death.  of both, to reconquer them again. This therefore is an unwise demand, and showeth that you do not understand, what belongeth to Christ's death or resurrection, who was to rise the full conqueror and Lord of all his enemies in his own person, and not a●…ter his resurrection to make a new conquest over them. And therefore your heaping of seventeen places of Scripture in the 
k Pa●…. 207. ad marginem l●…. 31.  margin of your book, to show that Christ died and rose again, is to let men see, that you have emptied your note Book, and there find that Christ did rise from the dead. To which if you will add, which is the true intent of all those places, that Christ was to rise a perfect conqueror of death and hell you shall make so many proofs that Christ conquered both before and with his resurrection, and by no means after it. For his resurrection was manifest proof, that neither his soul was forsaken in hell, nor his flesh left to see corruption in the grave; and therefore both hell and death were perfectly subdued, when he joined again his soul to his body, and advanced them both to an immortal and celestial life. Considering then whence the parts of Christ's manhood were taken, when he rose from the dead, to wit, his soul from h●…ll, where it was not forsaken, and his body from the grave, where it was not corrupted; you shall easily see, if you do not wilfully shut your eyes, that the power and force of Christ's resurrection began with the subduing of hell by his soul, and overmastering putrefaction by his body. Against whose soul and body since neither destruction nor corruption could prevail it was not possible, but he should rise vanquisher and Lord of death and hell. And where you think it absurd, that one part of Christ, (his soul) should gloriously triumph, the other, (his body) ALL THIS WHILE lying in humiliation; the time was not so long, as you would have it seem; since these things were done in that shortness and nearness of ●…me which pleased God; and the soul once removed from the body, whether in heaven or in hell, was first to go towards, and to the body, before that could receive life from the soul; and so of force the glory of the soul must begin before the glory of the body. And even according to your own conceit, if the soul were in heaven all the while, that the body lay dead in the grave; did not the exaltation of the soul in heaven begin a good while before the body, which the third day was restored to life, and till that time lay senseless in the dishonour and dominion of the grave, as you conceive? And is this so strange a thing with you in Christian religion, that Christ's soul should enjoy honour, bliss, and glory before the body, when the souls of the faithful so many hundred years before their bodies are partakers of heavenly joy?  
Your likelihood, that 
l Defenc. pag. 207. li. 37.  Christ would clear himself first wholly and entirely in both parts before he would begin to strip and spoil Satan for us; 
m Pag. 208. li. 1.  seeing it is a greater degree of victory to spoil the enemy and to tread him under foot, then to get freedom to himself; Hath no likelihood but in your own eyes. If Christ were in doubt of the victory, or 
Christ ordered his conquest most to Satan's shame.  afraid of the enemy, it were good policy first to make himself sure, and after to help others; but the Son of God, having no such doubt nor dread, might destroy and spoil those Infernal places and powers, when & as pleased himself with the most dishonour and shame that might be to Satan and his kingdom. For as he would die●… show his power in raising himself from the dead, so when he was dead he would conquer Satan, that his strength might the more appear in dissolving the sorrows of death, and returning to life with the full command over death and hell. And therefore your strong likelihoods, as you call them, are childish conceits and distrusts of Christ's power and ability to perform his victory. Like to these are those other points which you ask. 
n Pag. 208. li. 15.  Why might not one part of Christ have sufficed in his sufferings, righteousness & obedience (which Apollinaris an heretic affirmed,) as well as that one part served to triumph for us in hell?] Christ suffered for us in this life, where body and soul were joined together in suffering and meriting; but he conquered hell by death, that is after death, when the Soul was yet severed from the Body. What Apollinaris the Heretic affirmed, you understand not, if you think he did hold that the Soul of Christ did suffer or merit for us: his heresy was, that Christ had no human Soul, but his Deity did move and rule his body in steed of a Soul. Next you ask, [
o Pag. 208. li. 18.  Why the body over coming corruption in the grave, which I call a part of Satan's kingdom, did not thereby destroy the whole kingdom of Satan, and so save our Souls, that Christ might not have needed to have come to hell for that purpose?] He that hath nought else to doing, may intend to ask such idle questions. Why God would have the flesh of his Son by resisting corruption in the grave to assure our bodies of incorruption; and his Soul by subduing hell, to free our Souls from the power and fear of hell; you were best ask him a reason, whose will is the rule of all things: but since we were in danger and fear of both deaths, lest the one should lead us to the other, which was most to be feared; what reason can you bring against the Counsel and wisdom of God confirming us against the power of death and hell, by the conquest of both parts of Christ's manhood over both his and our enemies? You would otherwise have ordered our safety and indemnity, from death and hell, if your advise had been asked; but nourish these impieties at home in your bosom; blaze them not so busily to the world, as if you would believe nothing till you saw a reason thereof that fitted your fancy. What God might have done, is not for you nor me to ask; what improportion or discohaerence with the Christian faith is there in this, that the power of Christ's Soul and Body superior to hell and to the grave, should assure our Bodies and Souls the victory over both in such sort and at such time, as God hath appointed?  

p Defenc. pag. 208 li. 2●….  If they mean, that Christ's flesh being in the grave and his soul being in hell did severally and distinctly save our flesh and our souls, then how will you be reconciled to them, who do deny that point? You would feign put down Fulgentius, Athanasius, and others; as if they did not understand the first points of their Catechism, that the joint Redemption of our Souls and Bodies was obtained by the joint-sufferings of Christ in Soul and Body on the Cross; but yet since we are to die, when our Souls shall be severed from our bodies; to assure us that our Souls are freed by the merits of his passion from the danger of hell, and our bodies shall be raised from the dust of the earth, why might it not please the Son of God by the presence of his body in the grave without corruption to confirm the Resurrection of our bodies from corruption, and by the presence of his Soul in hell, subduing the power and kingdom of Satan, to strengthen our faith, that our Souls severed from our bodies shall be free from all danger and fear of hell, which he hath conquered in his own person, and whereof he hath taken the keys into his hands, as himself affirmeth? This was no new saving of our Souls and bodies, as you suppose; but rather the securing of us by his example, that our Souls and bodies severed by death, shall be subjecteth to neither, but be reserved to eternal life, that we may be partakers of his victory.  

q Defenc. pag. 208. li. 28.  Further, why was it needful, that an actual presence of his manhood should be in hell, seeing indeed it is certain, that the whole actual triumph of Christ over Satan proceedeth not of the proper virtue of the manhood, but only from the virtue & power of the Godhead of Christ? Conflict between the godhead of Christ & Satan there neither was, nor might 
Christ's manhood was to conquer though by power of his Godhead.  be any: but as by Adam's disobedience Satan gained us into his possession, so by the obedience of Christ's manhood even to the death, Satan lost us out of his power and dominion. Neither might the Deity of Christ through death be made Lord over all his enemies, except you will touch on a trick of Arianism; but the manhood of Christ for his submission unto death received the keys of death & hell, and power to dispose of Satan's kingdom at his pleasure. Now had not those Infernal powers been subjecteth to the Soul of Christ after death, how should it have appeared that his manhood, not his godhead, had the conquest over Satan's strongest holds, and that the keves of death and hell were resigned unto him? for since the Scripture beareth witness, that his Soul was not forsaken in hell, that is not there left destitute of his divine power & glory, what resistance could be made, that he should not return thence the Lord and Ruler of all his enemies, whereof hell and Satan were the chiefest? His godhead then was the giver, but his manhood was the receiver of this power and pre●…minence over hell & Satan, that they for ever should stoop to him, and see both what wrong they did him, and what vengeance was heaped on them; as also how righteous man's redemption was by the Cross and death; of the Son of God.  

r .  Lastly, why did not the presence of his flesh in the grave keep ours, that it should not come there, or at least that it should never putrify nor rot, as his flesh did not?] Even because 
.  such was God's will, it should not. God by his sentence pronounced on Adam and his offspring, adjudged them to return to dust, from which Christ shall raise them at the last day, and not before. And from dust to restore them, showeth greater power in Christ then to preserve them from dust. This therefore verifieth the justice, and magnifieth the power of God; and for you to ask, why it might not be aswell otherwise, as so; is to enter more saucily then wisely into those things, which you should religiously and faithfully believe. And where you say, all these sequels are as good and as li●…ly as my assertion. you show your accustomed boldness, if not haughtiness, that condemn so many learned and ancient fathers for plain fools in not seeing, what ●…urd consequences depended on their assertion. How beit in the midst of your pride you show little wit, that all this while you can light on none other reason of Christ's descent to hell, but only this that we should never come there. This indeed was one of the causes, even to secure us by his conquest, that he hath the keys of death and hell; and therefore we shall not need to fear either, since both are wholly subjecteth and submitted to his power, though he stay the time prefixed by his father, when we shall be partakers of his victory over death at the end of the world, as we are over hell at our departing hence; assuring us in this life by faith in him, that we need not fear either death or hell, both which he hath conquered.  

s Defenc. pag. 202. li. 7.  I made this argument in my former Treatise; that Christ's descending into hell (if ever he did so) could not be judged any part of his exaltation or glorification. To which your reply is, I know not whether more strange or scornful. But you resolve that these words, he descended to hell, importeth his exaltation and triumph.] This argument was drawn from your imagination taking upon you to dispose of the parts of the Creed as best pleased you, which because I rejected, as wanting all warrant besides your own note book, you interpret it to be a strange and scornful answer. Howbeit there is no strangeness in mine answer, but to him that never peeped farther than in his own shell. The Fathers with one consent refer that clause to Christ's Conquest over hell. Christ 
t Athanas. de incarn. Christi.  had power, (saith Athanasius) in the grave to show incorruption, and in his descent to Hades (hell) to dissolve death, and to proclaim to all resurrection. Cyprian. 
u Cyprianus de passione Christi.  When in Christ's presence hell being broken open, captivity was captivated, his conquering soul presented to the sight of his Father, returned to her body without delay. Epiphanius. 
x Epiphanius in 80. heresium. anacephalaiosi.  Christ was crucified, buried, he descended to hell in his Deity and his soul, he took captivity captive, and rose the third day with his holy body. That he was 
y Idem in Ancorat●….  free among the dead, signifieth hell had no power over him, but that of his own accord he descended to heli with his soul, because it was impossible he should be held of it. So Austen. 
z August ser●…. 138. & 131.  Reddunt Inferna victorem. Hell restored him a conqueror; and whiles his body lay in the grave, his soul triumphed over hell. The Counsels provincial and general do the like, 
a Concilium Toleta. 4. ca 10. & Arelatens. ca 1.  Christ descended to hell, & devicto mortis imperio, and subduing the kingdom of death, rose the third day. Even as the general Counsels of Ephesus and Constantinople say. Yea the later writers, as 
b Innocent. de mysterijsmissae. li. 2. ca 50.  Innocentius, 
c Durand. in rationali. divinorum li. 4. rub. de Symbolo.  Durandus, and others join this clause with Christ's resurrection, and make them both but one Article of our faith, as descendit ad inferna, tertia die resurrexit, he descended to hell, and rose the third day, they set for the fifth Article of the Creed; even as that ancient writer among Saint Austin's 
d Appendix de diversis sermo. 42.  works did before them. So that neither Elder, nor later writers join with you in this conceit of yours; that Christ's descent to hell was the lowest part of his humiliation; they directly profess it to be the first part of his exaltation, and a preamble to his resurrection. And where you think it much, that his descending should belong to his exaltation, not the place, but the purpose of his descent maketh that alteration. The Scripture saith. 
e 1. Thess. 4. ver. 16.  The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout and with the trumpet of God, when he shall come to judge the quick and dead: and yet that descent shall be the greatest part of his glory.  

f Defenc. pag. 209. li. 12.  You scoff at me for the like, as if I had said his descending was ascending, and heaven was Hell. But herein you affirmeuntruely. First I say though his soul leaving his body ascended, yet this is not meant by that phrase, he descended to Hades. Secondly, I never said that Hades signified heaven, although some in Hades are in heaven. Thirdly, much less did I ever say that hell is heaven.] The interpretation, which you made of the Article, Christ descended to hell, I said had none other matter of faith in it (except you thought the Church in her Creed went to varying of phrases) but that Christ's soul ascended to heaven. For where Hades in the Creed must signify not a privation, nor a general and indefinite condition, (as if Christ went some whither, yet no man knew whither) but a determined place, whither Christ's soul after death repaired; that place of force must be heaven or hell. And since by no means you will have Christ's soul descend to hell, as the whole Church hath hitherto received and believed, you must acknowledge the meaning of that Article to be, that Christ's soul ascended to heaven: and so whether you will or no, if that be the effect and intent of those words in the Creed, descending must be taken for ascending, and hell for heaven. This is not meant, you say, by that phrase.] It is one of your skills to bring Articles of the Creed to be phrases, as if the Apostles and their followers, which were the first planters of Churches, had meant to teach the simple people not principles of faith, but certain Greek or Hebrew phrases. He that will suffer you to turn his faith into a phrase, let him take heed that instead of heaven he light not on hell, which is one of your chief phrases. [But you never said that Hades signified heaven. You may save this from a lie, if you be not he that wrote this part of your book; as by the crossing and changing of your own assertions it is evident to every wise man, you did not: but otherwise, if the quoting of other men's authority to prove Hades to be heaven, may convince you to be of that mind with them, whom you cite for that purpose; you have most plainly avouched hades to import and contain heaven. Whose words are these, I pray you, in your Treatise? 
g Treat. pag. 97. li. 28.  This most singular place showeth, that Hades with them is not properly for hell, but for the world of the dead; and SOMETIMES AS NAMELY HERE EVEN FOR HEAVEN. So in the next page. 
h Pag. 98. li. 6.  Again he saith of heaven, that it is an unseen estate, EVEN HADES, AS IT IS (COMMONLY) CALLED. 
i li. 10.  Wherefore it is plain by Plato, Hades sometime may be understood for heaven; yea and with the Grecians it was a common phrase. 
k li. 27.  And Stephan ●…iteth Plutarch concerning the godly departing & being in hades, that is in heaven, he meant I think, and not in hell. Infinite places might be brought to like purpose, but these may suffice; which whether they, & you by them avouch hades to be taken for heaven or no, I leave to the judgement of the Reader, as also whether this be not impudent facing, and worthy of other words, at which you take so much offence. Yea this very Article Christ d●…scended to Hades, you expound by pretence of Bullingers' words, 
l Treat pag. 102.  he did go to Abraham's ●…osome, that is into heaven.  
That you avouch Philip. 2. for it, is more strange: where we have not one word of his local 
* Defenc. pag. 171.  being in hell. And that the Coloss. 2. should prove it, passeth all the rest. Where, (though we grant you your reading) yet the express text referreth that triumph to Christ's cross: which you openly deny.] You do well to make an Apology for your impudence and facing, the next sentence before; but if you reclaim those t●…ades of yours, you renounce the most part of your objections and probations in this your defence. For do I cite either of these places in the Pages, which you quote, to prove Christ's descent after death to the place of hell? When you in your proud and scorne●…ull humour mocked at Christ's actual conquest and t●…iumph over hell in general, and called it a 
m Treat. pa●…. 164.  worthy privilege surely, and very hon●…rable, 〈◊〉 to ●…iumph and insult upon the ●…ice miserable & woeful wretches in their pre●…t vn●…eakable damnation; adding, 
* Pag. 154.  
o Pag. 156.  All the world knoweth, it is the most in glorious and vilest debasing; to repress this disdainful and proud conceit of yours, I told you, 
p Concl●…s. pa. 3●….  The Apostle made it a part of Christ's high exaltation, that every knec as well of things under earth, as of things in heaven should bow unto him; and did you think it a matter to be mocked and derided? and of the place to the Colossians I said, 
q Conclus. pa. 358.  What l●…iteth then, since these words were not verified on the cross, but they did take place in his resurrection; and therein, as by the effects it was most evident and apparent to the eyes of all men, he did spoil powers, and Principalities, and made a show of them openly, and triumphed over them in his own person? When I speak of things evident and apparent to all men's eyes, I speak not of things done in hell, where no man living was present; but proved against you as well by your own words, as by the Apostles, that this triumph was not performed and executed on the cross, though there deserved and purchased. For you yourself debase Christ's triumph on the cross, with worse words than I do; you say, 
r Treatis. pag. 156.  it was a miserable triumph, yea 
s 159.  a piteous triumph it was indeed where himself remained in such woeful torment where appeared no show of conquest. I say not so, but that on the cross Christ humbled himself even unto death, and thereby merited to be exalted above all names and sorts (of creatures) which God after death most gloriously performed unto him, when every knee of those in heaven, on earth, and under earth, bowed unto him, and confessed him to be (their) Lord. This was all I said in those places; which you traduce; and yet if I had said more, and applied them to the actual triumph of Christ's soul after death, I wanted not better authority so to have done, than you have any for so many cart-loades of conc●…its, as you have brought us. But of both these places I have spoken before what may su●…ce, and he that will see more thereof, may read what Zanchius hath learnedly and soberly written of those places, Ephes. 4. verse, 9 and Coloss. 2. vers. 15. Where he likewise affirmeth: 
t Zanchius in c. 2. Coloss. v. 15.  Patres serè sic explicant, & ex nostris non pauci, neque vulgares; The Fathers for the most part do so expound it; and of our writers not a few, nor the meanest.  

u Defenc. pag. 209. li. 28.  That of the Counsels, how Christ rose again having spoiled hell, I easily yield; seeing that proveth not his local being there. Then first you yield, that Hades with all these general Counsels signifieth hell. Next you yield that hell was spoiled by Christ before he rose; for he rose having spoiled hell. Thirdly you yield, that this was done by Christ's manhood, since his Godhead can be said in no wise to rise from the dead; and consequently by his soul, since he spoilt hell before he rose, when yet his body was dead in the grave. There remaineth no more but this question, whether the soul of Christdid this absent from the place, or present in the place, which was spoiled. And since the scriptures avouch, that Christ's soul was in Hades, which was spoiled; as these three general Counsels assirme; it is without question, that Christ's soul present in hell, spoiled hell before his resurrection, and so returned to his body; which is the very point you all this while denied, and with so much lost labour impugned. And lest this cause should depend on your slipper turns and returns, we must understand, that not only the general Council of 
x Acta conc●…ij Ephes.  Ephesus confirmed and allowed these words in the synodal Epistle of cyril to Nestorius, but the Council of 
y Chalced. concilium. act. 5.  Chalcedon and the second Council of 
z Constantinop. concilium act. 6.  Constantinople ratified the same. So that what sense Cyrill had in these words, the same did the Council of Ephesus follow, cyril himself there sitting, and declaring his own meaning. Yea the Treatises of Cyrill expounding these words are inserted into the Acts of the Council of Ephesus, which the Counsels of Chalcedon and Constantinople do fully approve. Now what cyril meant by spoiling hades, appeareth in these words. 
a Cyrill de recta fide ad Reginas li. 2. ca quòd Christus in virtute patris resurrexit à mort●…is.  Our Lord jesus, saith cyril, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 having spoiled death, and loosed the number of souls, that were detained in the d●…nnes there, rose the third day. 
b Idem de recta fide ad Theodosium.  We must not say that the Deity of the only begotten returned from the dens under the earth, but his soul descended to hades, and using his divine power and authority, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, showed itself to the souls there, and said to them in bands, come forth; and to them in darkness, receive light. This cyril took from Athanasius, whom he much followed, and often cited. 
c Athanas. in ●…llud profecti in pagum inueniet●… pullum alligatum.  Those wretches (the devils) did not know, that the death of Christ should give us immortality, and his descent (to Hades) should procure our ascent to heaven. For the Lord rose the third day from the dead; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: having spoiled Hades (hell), trodden the enemy under foot, dissolved death, broken the chains of sin with which we were tied, and freed (us) that were bound, saying, arise, let us go hence. Being therefore freed from the bondage of the devil, let us acknowledge our redeemer, and glorify the Father, etc. So elsewhere. What need had (Christ that was) God, of the cross, 
d Idem de incarnate. Christi.  of the grave, of hell to which things we were subject; but that (in them) he sought us, quickening us in this manner agreeable to us? 
e Idem contra Arianos orat. 2.  For if the Lord had not been made man, we had never risen from the dead, as redeemed from our sins, but had remained dead under the earth; neither had we been exalted to heaven, but had lain still 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in hell. For us therefore and for our sakes it is said, God exalted (him), and gave him (the dominion of heaven, earth and hell). By which places, as by infinite others in Athanasius it is evident, that Christ conquered and spoiled hell and Satan for us, and delivered us thence, aswell as those that were formerly deceased; to whom, as to us, hell had a challenge till the Saviour of the world freed both them and us thence. And this is the true meaning of those provincial and general Counsels, which say; Christ rose the third day, having (first) spoilt hell.  

f Defenc. pag. 209. li. 30.  The same I affirm of that Allegory in Luke; which showeth Christ's overcoming, binding and spoiling of Satan indeed: but not by his local being in hell. Christ expressly applieth it to his dispossessing of Devils out of men's bodies. I did not allege this parable to prove Christ's going to hell in soul after death, but to show what parts Christ's conquest over hell and Satan must have; to wit, that he must subdue, bind, and spoil Satan, before his conquest over Satan, could be perfect. Other places of Scripture applied these parts to Christ's rising from the dead, and spoiling the kingdom of Satan; for this parable it did suffice, that these things here mentioned must be fully performed by Christ, before he did fully conquer Satan. Now that these things were thoroughly performed by Christ, whiles he lived on earth, is repugnant to the Scriptures. For so Christ should never have died, since death was a part of Satan's power, which Christ was to spoil. It is therefore certain, that Christ's overmastering of Satan began here on earth, when he cast him out from such as were possessed, but Christ's conquest over Satan, had not his full and complete higth, no not in his own person, till he rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven, leading captivity captive. That therefore it began before Christ's death, I do not deny; but that it was not finished till his resurrection and ascension, the Scriptures avouch. Christ saith Origen, 
g Origen li. 5. in ca 6. ad. ●…ma.  having bound the strong man, and by his cross conquered him, went even to his house, to the house of death, and into hell; and thence took his goods, that is, the souls, which he possessed. And this was that, which he spoke by a Parable in the Gospel, saying: Who can enter a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? So jerom. 
h Hiero in ca 12. Matthe●….  The strong man was bound and tied in hell, and trodden under the Lord's foot, and the Tyrants howsen being spoiled, captivity was led captive. And Zanchius, 
i Zanchius in 2. ca ad coloss.  The Apostle to the Ephesians the 4. (where he speaketh of Christ's triumph, and saith, he led captivity captive, that is, he led the Devil captive, and triumphed over him) doth not there say, this triumph was made on the cross, but then performed (that is perfected) when Christ ascended to heaven. Christ then obtained it on the Cross, but performed it afterwards. 
k Ibidem.  Of evil spirits subdued and spoiled, the Son of God triumphed. Whither pertaineth that parable of Christ's, when a strong man keepeth his house (his goods are in peace) but when a stronger than he cometh upon him, he taketh his spoils from him.  

l Defenc. pag. 210. li. 2.  Remember I pray how God showed his displeasure against your wresting of his word, by that strange terror, that happened even then when you were descended int●… he depth of this uncouth doctrine at Paul's Crosse. Indeed it may be, that you and such others were in a strange terror at that time, otherwise there was no cause, nor harm, but the breakeing of an old rotten form, which men desirous to hear had over loaden, and so where they stood half a yard above ground before, they were then feign to stand on their feet. But Sir, by what autho●…ity do you take upon you to interpret God's will by the cracking of an old stool? Are you of late become a Southsaier, that you profess to declare God's meaning by the breaking of an old board in sunder? What say you then to those Coronations of Princes, and other assemblies, where many have been slain? What say you to S. Paul's Sermon, where 
m Acts 20.  Eutychus falling down from a third l●…ft, was taken up dead? Will you say his doctrine was uncouth, because the hearers were a while troubled with that accident? had there any thing indeed fallen out, as God be thanked there did nothing, you would have played the false Prophet apace to presume of God's purpose, when by your own foolish fear upon the cracking of an old form, you proudly and profanely take upon you to pronounce of God's pleasure.  

n Defence pag. 21●… li. ●….  Where you charge me in the end arrogantly and absurdly to falsisie the Synod of this Realm, it is but what yourself doth in effect. I said our Synod corrected King Edward's Synod. You acknowledge and profess that in the later words of that former Synod now left out are three things that cannot be justified by the Scriptures.] If a man would hire you, you cannot leave this outfacing and falsifying, no not, when you go about to clear yourself of it, which whether it be absurd or arrogant, I leave to the Reader. Our Synod, you said, corrected King Edward's Synod.] Said you no more? did you not lustily conclude; 
o Treatis pag. 172.  Therefore our Synod renounceth apparently this sense of the Creed, that Christ descended to the hell of the damned? Now that is nothing so; they thought not good in this Article of the Creed to express more than was anciently set down for the people to believe: but they do not reject as false, whatsoever they omit of the later words of King Edward's Synod. For so they should reject this also for false, that Christ's body lay in the grave till his resurrection, which I trust no Christian man doubteth. Three things I said there were, which the later Synod might conceive to be contained in the former, that could not be justified by the Scriptures; and in that respect they might leave out those later words, not cutting of, putting out, or casting away (as you ruffle in your terms) every thing there mentioned, for so they should cast away aswell the burial of Christ's body, as the presence of his soul in hell, but refraining to confirm those later words, both because there was somewhat amiss in them, and they would not impose more on the people to believe, than was at first comprised in their Creed; as also for that they would not establish this to be the right and undoubted sense of Peter's words, that Christ in soul preached to the spirits in hell.  

p Defenc. pag. 210. li. 19  You ●…arge these words of King Edward's Synod with two points, which are not in them. First, that it saith, how the spirits of the just were in hell: and that Christ descending thither, stayed there till his resurrection. In me you would make this a great matter so to misreport the words of a Synod, which indeed saith nothing hereof.] Were there no more but this in the words of that Synod, that the preaching of Christ to the spirits in hell is set down 
The things misliked in king Edward's synod.  there as the sole cause of his descent thither; or that this sense of S. Peter's words is imposed on all men by their authority to be believed: either of these was reason sufficient to omit those later words of King Edward's Synod. But if we rightly look into the manner and purpose of their speech, we shall easily see, that I wrong them not. For by those words they meant to show the places, where Christ's soul and body did abide, after they were severed, until the resurrection. His body, say they, even until the resurrection lay in the grave, his soul being breathed out, was (until the same time) 
q Articuli Synodi Lond●…nens. anno. 1552.  with the spirits in prison or hell, and preached to them, as the place of Peter doth witness. To say, that the soul of Christ dismissed from his body, was not at all in the place, where the spirits of the just were, had been repugnant to Peter's words in the next Chapter; if we grant as they did, by these words of Peter, that Christ preached to the dead. For there it is said, The Gospel (that is, the glad tidings of Redemption performed) was preached to the dead. Which could not be to the wicked, since the Gospel was not preached unto them, but the justness of their condemnation rather published unto them. Since then as they took S. Peter's words, Christ preached to both the just and unjust, and by their Article, declaring where Christ abode after death, no more is expressed, but that Christ was with the spirits in prison and hell, and preached unto them; How can it in any reasonable man's judgement be avoided, but that their words imply, the just were in prison and in hell, where Christ preached? Neither was this so strange a thing in those days, since many hundred years before it was received in most men's mouths and minds, that the just deceased before Christ's death were in the same place (called hell) with the wicked, though not in the same pains; and many of the Fathers directly affirm no less. Seeing then themselves in their words make no difference betwixt the just and unjust; and generally avouch, that Christ's soul was with the spirits in hell, and preached to them, by warrant of Peter's words, who saith, The Gospel was preached to the dead; What reason had I to wrest their words to any other sense then that, which I saw currant in many fathers before them, whose steps, by the general purport of their words they seemed to follow? And how justly might the later Synod refuse those words of theirs, which were either so dangerons, or so doubtful, that they might not safely be retained?  

r Defenc. pag. 210. li. 24.  It is well that you renounce that of Peter (by Austin's direction) as making not at all for any local being of Christ in hell. But yet herein yourself openly refuseth the mind of all your Predecessors, yea of our later Synod, if they believed as you urge they did. For if they liked Christ's local being in hell, they misliked not the applying of that in Peter thereunto: as by Master Nowel's Catechism may appear.] It is true, that I refrained to bring those places of Peter, because Saint Austen, though he strongly hold Christ's descent to hell to be a part of the Christian faith, yet he perceived and confessed these places might have an other sense, and nothing touch Christ's descent to hell. Your illation, that if the Synod liked Christ's local being in hell, they misliked not the applying of that in Peter thereunto, is like the rest of your collections. As if Saint Austen did not like the one, and yet mislike the other. Notwithstanding there is difference betwixt liking a quotation as some way pertinent to the cause, and proposing the same as a part of Christian Religion for all men of necessity to embrace. The Synod might do the one, and yet not the other; and so justly leave out that clause of the former Synod, though Peter's words in their opinions might have some such intent. Neither do I prejudice any man to like or allege that place of Peter for this purpose, since I bind no man to my private exposition of the Scriptures; but rather stand on those places which have the full consent of all antiquity to pertain directly to this matter. Yet this is no bar, but many ancient Fathers did use that place of Peter to prove Christ's descent to hell, as 
1 Athanas. episi a 〈◊〉 ●…tum.  Athanasius, 
2 Cyrill de fide ad Theodosi●…m.  Cyrill, 
3 ●…ilar. in Psal. 118. vers. 82.  Hilary and 
4 Ambros in ca 10. ad Roma.  Ambrose did, though Austen did not; and the Synod in her majesties time (that is now with God) might like thereof, to show that Christ amongst other things did also confirm by his presence and preaching in hell the condemnation of the wicked there, though I did not cite those places; because Saint Austen had otherwise expounded them. For take the word Spirit for the Soul of Christ, as the same word is taken in the next verse following for the Souls of men, where it is said, In which he went, and preached to the Spirits in prison: and expound the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, kept ●…liue, or continuing in life, as the Syriac translator doth in saying, Christ died in body, and lived in spirit; in which sense the Scripture saith, A man may 
s Ezechiel 18. vers. 27.  
s Luk. 17. v. 33.  quicken his soul, that is keep it alive; and then the words of Peter run more easily for Christ's descent to hell, then for his preaching in the days of Noah. There is no doubt, but Austin's sense hath some difficulties and must have some open additions to the text, before it will agree therewith; as by which he went, and preached to (those that now are) spirits in prison (and were) once disobedient in the days of Noah. Again, neither wicked men living on earth, are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 spirits, by the course of the Scriptures; neither were the despisers of Noah's preaching then in prison, when he preached. Besides that Peter here purposely speaking of the death of Christ, verse 18. persueths the consequents thereof in order, as his descent to the spirits in prison verse. 19 his resurrection, vers. 21. his ascension and sitting on the right hand of God vers. 22. The impediment to the former sense is, that they only are mentioned, which were disobedient in the days of Noah; where if we make the former words to be general, in which he went, and preached to the spirits in prison, and the next special, as the point between may intend, (and) to the disobedient in the days of Noah; or if this example be produced as the most famous, wherein the whole and first world was drowned; and so likest to the time of preaching the Gospel, the contempt whereof should bring destruction on the second world and the just be saved by water, (as Noah was) through the resurrection of Christ; that impediment is likewise removed. Howbeit I leave it indifferent to every man to follow, what sense he liketh best, the rather for that many old and new interpreters refer these words of Peter, that Christ preached to the spirits in prison, and 
u 1. Peter. 4.  the Gospel was preached to the dead, to Christ's descent to those places, where these dead were, 
t 1. Peter 3.  both good and bad; though I thought not fit to press them, when Austen had once resigned them.  
And where you cite Master Nowel's Ca●…echisme to prove that the later Synod misliked not the applying of Peter's words to Christ's descent to hell, what do you therein, but as your manner is, take the pains to refute yourself? For if they liked that which Master Nowell hath written of Christ's descent to hell, they allowed as much as I defend; and consequently they did not apparently renounce the doctrine of Christ's going down to the hell of the damned; as you did openly, I must not say arrogantly pronounce. It may be you will turn about, when you see yourself thus angled, and say Master Nowell teacheth no more, but that the power and efficacy of Christ's passion was revealed to the damned: but the first point he teacheth, is this, 
x Catechis anno. 1574. pa. 70.  Christum, ut corpore in terr●… vis●…era, it a anima à corpore separata ad inferos descendisse; Christ, as in body (he went) to the ●…wels of the earth (which was his grave) so in soul severed from his body he descended ad inferos to hell. The ends of Christ's descent he maketh to be three, where he saith; Simu●… etiam mortis suae virtutem at●… efficacitatem ad ●…ortuos, at●… inferos adeo ipsos ita 〈◊〉, v●… & incredulorum animae etc. And with all (that is together with his soul) the vert●…e ●…nd force of his death so p●…arced to the dead, and even to hell itself, that firs●… the ●…ules of the ●…ithlesse p●…rceaued the condemnation of their in●…delity to be most sharp but 〈◊〉 i●…st. Secondly, and Satan the ruler of hell, sa●… all the power of his t●…ny, and of 〈◊〉 to be we●…ened, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Thirdly, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and the dece●…d, 〈◊〉 in their lif●… 〈◊〉 believe in Christ, perceived the work of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thereof with most sweet and ●…tain con●…ort. here is as much as I desire, grant this and I urge you no farther. And thus much the late Synod liked and app●…ued. if you do admit, as you do when pleaseth you, Master Nowell for their interpreter.  

y De●…enc. pag. 210. li. 31.  Neither misliked they his tarrying there till his resurrection, which also Austen holdeth as firmly, as that he was there.] If you speak of the later Synod, you speak more than you can prove. If of others, you must tell us, whom you mean. It is not true, that Austen fastened Christ's soul to hell for three days, but rather confessed him to be free amongst the dead, and so left to his own liberty; though the Scripture in Austin's opinion nameth no place, where Christ's soul was after death, besides hell. 
z August. contra 〈◊〉 Arr●…num. ca 15.  If the soul saith he, be straightway called to Paradise, when the body is dead, think ●…e any man so wi●…ked, as to dare say, that the soul of our Saviour was for those three d●…ies of his bodily death restrained to the custody of hell? Gregorius Nyssenus doth the like. 
a Gregorius 〈◊〉 in ill●…d 〈◊〉, & 〈◊〉 exivit s●…guis & aqua.  That the soul of our Lord commended into his Father's hands, quum ita bonum & commodum illi visum esset, etiam ad inferos descendit, went also to hell, when it seemed good and co●…nient unto himself, that 〈◊〉 might publish salvation to the souls in hell, and be Lord over quick and dead, and spoil hell, and might prepare a way for man's nature to return to life▪ after he himself had been the first fruits, and first borne from the dead, may be perceived by many places of Scripture. Anselmus a thousand years after Christ, showeth that the Church in his time held not this so firmly, as you imagine. For ask by way of a Dialogue, 
b Anselmus in Elu●…idario totius Christianae T●…logiae.  whither went Christ's soul after death? He answereth; to the heavenly Paradise, as he said to the Thief, this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise. When then went he to hell? at midnight before his resurrection, at what hour the Angel destroyed Egypt, at that hour, even at midnight Christ s●…oiled hell, and made their d●…kenesse as bright as day. So that you talk out of time, when you talk so much how long time Christ stayed in hell. The time and manner of his descent we leave to God; ●…t su●…iceth us, that the Scriptures witness he was there, and rose both Saviour of his own, and Lord of all.  

c Defenc. pag. 210. li. 35.  That our English Clergy generally did or do believe Christ's local descent to hell (although they read and reh●…arse these words so translated) certainly no man will nor aught to acknowledge. That all did, I never said; we have to much experience of you and some others, that love always to be opposite to Laws, Creeds, Canons and whatsoever pleaseth not your fancies; but that all should, I do avouch; by reason the Church of England in her public service, the Synod in their Articles, and the Parliament of this Realm in their confirmation of both, enioyn●… all men not onl●… to read those words so translated, but to bele●…ue that Christ descended to Hell. If ●…ou 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, they are bound to bel●…eue your emphatical phrase, or your phantastical●… imagination o●… you know not what, general, ind●…finite, priuati●…e condition of death, they w●…l ●…ile at your presumptuous folly. If it be a matter of faith, it ●… no phrase; if we must believe as they teach, that Christ (after his death and bu●…all) de●…cended to hell; you must show us some other hell, to which Christ descended after death; or else I conclude that the Laws of this Land bind all men to believe and profess, that Christ descended to that hell, which the Scriptures acknowledge, and not ●…hich your rolling conc●…its and totter●…ng tongu●… would establish against the warrant and word of God; whose only will should be the line, whose only truth should be the guide, whose only praise should be the end of all our professions and actions.   

THE TABLE, SERVING for their use, that are desirous with more ease to find out the special contents of this book, as they are handled in their several places.  

A  A Brahams bosom. pag. 552▪ the place thereof unknown. 656 A●…yssus in the New Testamen●… is hell. 6●…9 A●…sed, i●…nocents and penit●…nts ●…re not, though hanged on a tree. 238 Ch●…t was no●… A●…sed, how great soever his pains we●…. 164. 165 S. Au●…s i●…dgement how Ch●…ist was accursed. 241 Men c●…n not be truly bl●…ssed and accurs●…d. 253 Th●…t is ●…cc●…ed wh●…ch God hateth. 257 A sac●…ifice for sin is not ac●…ursed, but accepted of God 258 Adam sinned aswell by body as by soul. 183. 184 Was punished for his sin after Christ was promised. 147 What God threatened to Adam if he sinned. 177. 178 aeternal death f●…r whom Christ might fear. 484 Against ae●…rnall death, as due to him, Christ could not p●…ay. 378. 379 Eternally God doth not punish one for another's ●…ault. 336 Affections are p●…infull to the soul: 4●…9 make sensible alterations in the heart. 193. 194 Good affections of love and zeal are not painful. 26 Evil affections are punishments of sin. 31 Inward affections make outward impressions in the heart. 193 The heart is the seat of man's affections and actions.  Christ cou●…d repress and increase his affections as he saw cause. 400 The A●…xe cleaveth to the Verb and not to the Noun. 216 Affl●…ctions of the godly are moderated punishments 9 10. 11. 17. manifest Gods displeasure against sin. 14●… Agony what it is. 339 T●…e pains of hell were not the cause of Christ's agony. 58. 59 The causes that might be of Christ's agony in the ●…arden. 9●…. they cross●… not one another. 97 I di●… not resolve what was the cause of Christ's agony.  The precise cause of Christ's agony is not revealed in the Scriptures. 338. 346. though the general occasions may be conjectured 346 The parts of Christ's agony. 339 An agony proveth rather zeal than fear. 339 Fear and sorrow the Scriptures witness in Christ's agony. 342 Submission to God and compassion on men, the general causes of Christ's agony. 347 The first cause concurring to Christ's agony. 347 The second. 354 The third. 370 The fourth. 371 The fi●…th. 375 The sixth. 399 The Fathers determ●…ne not the exact cause of Chr●…sts agony. 371 How some use the word agony. 403 The different aff●…ctions in Christ's agony had different causes. 558 Amaz●…d neither Moses nor Paul were in their pra●…ers. 368 Christ was not amazed in his prayer. 369. 479 Christ's prayer proveth he was not then amazed. 469 Christ's ●…raier was no amaze. 467 The Defender yeeld●…th perfect knowledge to Christ in his amazedness. 481 Angry God was with our sins, but not with Christ's person. 463 God is truly angry with his children's sins. 14 Angels sinned in their whole nature as men do. 197 Angels and good men received the bowing of the body. 662 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth For as well as From. 501 The Apostle. 1. Cor. 15. speaketh only of the resurrection to glory. 640. What his words H●…b. 5. infer. 498. 499. 500 Believers may not judge of the apostles words. 89 More Apostles than twelve. 651 The divers reading and translating of the apostles words, 1. Cor. 15. 55. 639 Astonishment what it is. 441 What astonishment with fear is. 468 Christ did not pray in astonishment. 441 Why Christ might be somewhat astonished. 468 Athanasius lewdly falsified by the Defender. 275 taketh Hades for hell. 569. 600. 601 What Athanasius speaketh of Adam, the Defender referreth to Christ. 275 Augustine not ignorant of the Greek tongue. 608 his judgement how Christ was accursed. 241 keepeth the sense of Peter's word, Act. 2. 626 is grossly mistaken by the Defender. 627  Christ took our natural, but not sinful, affections. 330 Christ might behold the power of God's wrath, and yet not fear the vengeance due to the wicked. 348 Christ prayed for us and against Satan. 352 Christ knew the burden of our sins must lie on his shoulders. 353 Christ and his members must drink of one and the same cup. 353 Christ wept for the desolation of jerusalem, and sorrowed for the rejection of the jews. 354 Christ wept and sorrowed when he would. 355 Christ grieved at the wilfulness of the jews. 357 Christ sorrowed that his death should be the ruin of the jews. ibid. Christ chose the time and place to show his vehement affections. 358 Christ could not be content to be separated from God for us. 367 Christ suffered the likeness of our punishment, not of our sin. 273 Christ was not ordained to be damned for us. 364 Christ feared not death, but his Father's power. 370 Christ might pray to have the deepness of his sorrows comforted, & pains assuaged. 374. 375 Christ might pray against the sting of death, which he was to feel before he died. 381 Christ could not pray against eternal death as due to him, but unto us. 378. 379 Christ was most earnestly to ask, what God had faithfully promised to grant. 384 Christ felt all our affections not of necessity, but according to his own power and will. 386 Christ showed in the garden how man's soul struggleth with the pangs of death. 388 Christ was weak to comfort the weak, but stronger than the strongest on the cross. 388. 390 Christ saw the whole danger from which he should redeem us. 392. 393 Christ teacheth all his to fear God's power as himself did in the garden. 393. 394 Christ presented and dedicated his body in the garden, which he suf●…ered on the cross to be done to death. 399 Christ died not in the garden. 400 Christ could repress and increase his affections as he saw cause. 400 Christ found no joy in his pains, but comfort in his hope. 411 Christ emptied himself of glory not of grace. 412 Christ citing the 1. vers. of the 21. Psalm, noteth the whole to appertain to his passion. 434 Christ was mortified in flesh but not in soul. 507 Christ might pass from hell to heaven. 550 Christ needed no long time to de●…cend to hell. 551 Christ presented himself in every place, 564 Christ was to rise full conqueror of hell and death. 668 How Christ's death was like the godlies. 7 How Christ laid down his soul for us. 132. 133 How Christ shall the second time appear without sin. 27 How far Christ's sufferings must be extended. 343 How Christ's soul was in his Father's hands. 549 How Christ was in Paradise the day of his death. 549 How Christ was like us in all things sin excepted. 86 How Christ might fear and yet be freed from it. 486. ●…87 How Christ loosed the sorrows of death. 624 How Christ must rise from the dead. 627 What Christ discerned in all his sufferings. 317 What Christ undertook for us. 324 What things Christ inwardly beheld in the garden 387 Why Christ might dislike the death of the body. 398 The joint sufferings of Christ in his bodily death most available for our salvation. 68 Every thing in Christ was meritorious, but not satisfactory for sin. 179. 180 Both body and soul must suffer in Christ. 130. 131 Christ's bodily death part of the punishment of our sins. 11 By Christ's corporal punishment we are freed from spiritual and eternal. 222. 223 Christ's blood could not be shed but by Satan and his inst●…uments. 231 Christ's recompense for the wrong received at Satan's hands. 232 Christ's suffering without the gate of the city. 113. 114 Christ's death was most just with God in respect of his will to save us. 262. 263 Christ's death not exacted as a debt but ●…eceaued as a voluntary sacrifice. 264 Christ's doings above man's reason. 310 The nature, measure, and purpose of Christ's sufferings. 332 The pains of Christ's soul as of his body were equal to the strength of his patience. 334 Christ's faith did not fail in the sharpest of his pains. 335 All Christ's sufferings were righteous and holy. 344. 438 Christ's words john 12. avouch not contraries. 482. are expounded. 483 Christ's senses were not overwhelmed with fear and sorrow. 477 Christ's fears and sorrows not like the reprobates. 448. 449. 450 We must not increase Christ's sufferings at our pleasure. 478 Christ's passió did not kill his soul but his body. 528 Christ's conquest secureth our souls severed from our bodies. 670 Christ's Soul was not tormented with God's immediate hand. 34 Christ's Soul suffered but died not for us. 133 Christ soul suffered by all her powers but not the death of the Soul. 136. 137. 140 Christ's Soul chief patient in pain and agent in merit. 179 Christ's Soul could not merit, if it wanted understanding and will. 480 Christ's Soul in her greatest pains did most show the life of patience and obedience to God. 524 Christ's Soul was passable, but died not. 533 Christ's Soul was not fastened to hell three days. 551 Christ's Soul was in glory before his Body. 669 Christ's Soul living by grace could no way be dead. 523 Neither Scriptures nor Father's vnderst●…nd Christ's Soul by his Body. 426. 427 Christ's Soul was not crucified through infirmity. 510 Christ●… Soul was not under the dominion of death. 650 What we must beware in the sufferings of Christ's Soul. 536 Many writers teach the sufferings of Christ's Soul, without the pains of hell. 536 Why Christ's Soul and not his Body was to conquer hell. 668 It is not against the faith that Christ's Soul should conquer hell. 622 Christ's man●…ood prayed for that with all humility, which hi●… person by ●…ight might have challenged. 378 Christ●… manhood might fear the glory of God's judgement. 380 Christ's manhood mi●…ht fear the power of God's wrath against our sins, which he was to bear. 380 Christ's manhood might fear the sting of death, as horrible to man's nature. 381 Christ's manhood was to conquer hell. 667. though by power of his Godhead. 670 Christ's flesh found no ease in death though his Soul were full of hope. 424 Christ's flesh was weak though his Spirit was willing. 508 Christ's fl●…sh could not putrify. 623 Christ's prayer in the Garden was well advised. 397 Christ●… prayer was no maze. 4●…7 Christ's prayer was not against his Fathers will. 397. 465. 466. 470. 471. 472 Christ's prayer was full of faith. 474. 475 Christ's prayer was with condition and reservation of Gods will. 382 Compassion and pity are always painful. 27 Compassion is affliction though it be a virtue. 438 Christ more compassi●…nate than Moses or Paul. 359 Christ's complaint on the Crosse. 409 How many senses it may bear. 418. 420. 421 The first sense. 416 The second sense. 418 The third sense. 421 The fourth sense. 430 The fifth sense. 432 The sixth sense. 433 The Saints comp●…aint in their afflications. 418 The event of Christ's co●…plaint on the Crosse. 419 No shame for Christ to complain on the Cross as he did. 420 Leo maketh Christ's complaint on the Cross an instruction, no lamentation. 432 We were conceived in sin before we were quickened with life. 173 Man's flesh is defiled in conception before the soul is created and infused. 174. 175 None can be everlastingly condemned for another's fault. 363 Christ's conquest over hell and death. 667 was ordered most to Sat●…ns shame. 669 Contradictions objected by the Defender are easily answered. 69 Contradictions in the Defender. 320 A shameful contradiction of the Defender. 423 The words of the Creed examined. 648 How long this clause of Christ's descent to hell hath been in the Creed. 653. 654 Hades in the Creed mu●…t signify hell. 649 Hell in the Creed is no new translation. 652 The Creed continued from the Apostles times. 664 Twelve parts of the Creed. ●…64 What Cr●…sse of Christ it was that Paul so much reoiyced in. 73. 74 75 How the Fathers and new writers expound that place. 76. 77 How far the Cross of Christ extendeth itself by the Scriptures. 79 We rejoice in the effects of Christ's Crosse. 81 Christ was not vo●…de of all comfort on the Cross●…. 410. 411 What comfort Christ had on the Crosse. 412 The death of the Cross the greatest ex●…anition of Christ. 433 Christ's Soul was not Crucified through infirmity. 501 Figuratively the Soul may be said to be Crucified. 80 What Cup Christ drank of. 373 What Christ meant by the hour and Cup of his Passion. 443 Christ and his members must drink of one and the same Cup. 353 What part of the Curse Christ bare for our sins. 234. 235 Hanging on a tree was not the whole Curse of the Law. 236 A double Curse of sin. 236 Two kinds o●… C●…rses in the Law. 239 The bodily death which Ch●…ist suffered was the Curse which he sustained. 240 Cursing and bl●…ssing compared do manifest each the other. 249 What is true Cursing and blessing from God. 250 How Christ was made a Curse for us. 257 Christ's death was a kind of Curse. 259 Christ undertook to satisfy but not to suffer our Curse 260 The Curse for sin is triple. 266 Cyprian wrested by the Defender. 274 
D  D Amnation, What pains are essential to it. 37. 39 The horror of God's judgements not near the pains of the Damned. 227 The Godly in this life feel not the pains of the damned. 320 Sharper pains are reserved for the damned then now they feel. 334 Christ was not ordained to be damned for us. 364 David never felt the true pains of hell. 453 David's fear unlike to Christ's. 442 What Death Christ died. 19 A threefold death the wages of sin. 13●… Corporal death in all men is the punishment of sin. 149. 150. 151. 176 Death in Christ was the satisfaction for sin. 176 Everlasting death the wages of sin which Christ could not suffer. 226 The death of the body is evil in itself though God to his make it a passage to life. 244. 245 The consequen●…s after death do not prove death to be good. 246 The nature of death not changed in the godly. 252 God so h●…teth death that he will destroy it as an enemy. 254 Natural death came not by the sentence of Mos●… Law. 261 Th●…e is no death of the Soul without sin. 366 All feel the sting of death which Christ expressed before he died. 389 The death and life of the soul here on earth mistaken by the Defender. 430 What the second death is in the Scriptures. 492 Eight p●…es of Scripture abused for the death of Christ's Soul. 493 By one land of death Christ freed us from all kinds of death. 504 To be utterly forsaken of God is the death of the Soul. 517. 518 The extremest degree of pains where grace doth not fail is no death of the Soul. 524 What things the death of the body doth import. 649 The Defender grossly perverteth my words. 44. 45 The Defender cont●…adicteth himself. 56. 57 The Defender contemneth the Fathers and their judgements. 82 The Defender deviseth shifts to decline Scriptures and Fathers against him. 94 The Defender would make the manner of Christ's dying only unusual. 95 The D●…fender doth grossly mistake the rejection of the jews to be the meaning of Christ's complaint on the cross. 98 The D●…fender not able to support his errors, doth quarrel with the question. 99 The Defender eludeth the Scriptures with his terms of single and mere. 125. 126. 127 The Defender clouteth one conclusion out of divers places. 146 The Defender maketh the sufferings of Christ's flesh needless to our redemption. 168. 169 The Defender perverteth the doctrine of the Homilies. 224. 225 The Defender maketh Christ sinful, accursed, and defiled. 265 The Defender would not fail to cite Fathers if he had them. 273 The Defender compareth Christ in want of comfort with the damned. 291 The Defender vainly presumeth all places of his unanswered to be granted. 319 The Defender hath devised torments for Christ's soul. 323 The Defender controleth the words of the holy Ghost by his new phrases. 413 The Defender in steed of proving falleth to granting his own positions. 5●…3 The Defender misciteth S. john's words and on that error groundeth all his reasons. 644 The Defender giving a reason of n●…thing, asketh a reason of all things. 415 The Defender claimeth like reverence to his words as to the Scripture. 325 The Defender saith the Scriptures are ordinarily true, that is, sometimes false. 367 The Defender doth every where mistake and misapply what is said. 384 The Defender forgeth a pace new parts of the Christian faith. 393 The Defender taketh the parts of Christ's agony for the causes thereof. 401 The Defender is somewhat pleasurable. 528 The Defender corrupteth S. Luke. 402. 403 The Defender ascribeth a lively affection to Christ's dead flesh. 422 The Defender uttereth a flat contradiction to his own doctrine. 422. 423 The Defender confesseth the Fathers prove my meaning. 425 The Defender is driven to contrarieties. 431 The Defender taketh from Christ inward sense and memory in his sufferings. 440 The Defender yieldeth perfect knowledge to Christ in his amazedness. 481 The Defender foolishly proveth the death of Christ's soul. 495. 496 The Defender abuseth the Scriptures. 534. 535 The Defender cannot discern a conclusion from a quotation. 568 The defenders four restraints of hell pains. 4 The defenders disdain of the fathers. 98 The defenders vain shifts. 114. 115 The defenders skill in framing arguments. 327 The defenders absurd devices. 490 The defenders manner of reasoning as illogicall as his matter is false. 336 Dereliction in the Scriptures never implieth the pains of the damned. 415 Deep what it signifieth. 566 To what Deep Christ descended after death. 565 567 The true sense of Paul and Moses words. Rom. 10. concerning the Deep. 568 The who●…e church taught that Christ after death descended to hell. 544. 545 New Writers teach Christ's descent to hell. 546. 547 Christ needed no long time to descend to hell. 551 Of Christ's descending and ascending. 553 Christ aescended and ascended to be Lord over all. 563 To what deep Christ descended after death. 565 567 Descending is to places below. 569 How long this clause of Christ's descent to hell hath been in the Creed. 653. 654 What Ruffinus meaneth by Christ's descent to hell. 655 Descending to hades was not the burial of Christ's body. 556. 557. 558 The causes of Christ's descent to hell. 666 Des●…ending to hell was a part of Christ's exaltation. 671 The descent of Christ to hell confessed by the Catechism. 677 The Laws of this land do bind all to believe Christ's descent to hell. 678 Desperation in hell is no sin. 71 Desperation is the sorest torment in this life. 238 A small Difference of words may quite alter the sense. 199 Difference of Christ's offering and suffering. 276 Difference of outward and inward temptations. 314 Difference betwixt God's threats & judgements. 472 How the Devil may discern and incense our affections. 192 The Devil tormented not Christ's soul on the Crosse. 295 Christ suffered as deep pains but not as deep Doubts as we may. 321 
E.  ELect. Who is enemy to Gods Elect. 233 The Elect are never truly accursed. 252 The Elect cannot perish. 364 Erasmus foully mistaken by the defender. 653 Four notable Errors grounded by the defender upon the facts of Moses and Paul. 363 The first. 363 The second. 365 The third. 367 The fourth. 368 What impressions Evil maketh in the soul of man. 341 Evil past, present, or to come worketh sorrow, pain, and fear in the soul of man. 341 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what it importeth. 485 Is contrary to fear. 501 Esay doth not touch the death of Christ's soul. 526. 527 Esay 14. Shcol for hell. 559. 560 Eusebius report of Thaddeus allowed by the best historiographers. 660 
F  Father's: their judgements may be called Authorities. 83 The Fathers may be left in some private opinions. 84 I leave not the Fathers in the grounds of faith. 85 The Fathers doc not teach that Christ suffered all which we should have suffered. 138. 139 The Fathers disclaim all necessity in the death of Christ. 285 The Fathers determine not the exact cause of Christ's Agony. 371 Wherein we should follow the Fathers. 415 Some Fathers expound me in Christ's words, for my members. 416 No Father avoucheth the death of Christ's Soul. 142. 143 diverse Fathers evidently corrupted for the death of Christ's Soul. 428. 429 By the judgement of the Fathers, Christ died no death of the Soul. 519 The Fathers profess true fire to be in hell. 46 The Fathers plainly remove the death of Christ's Soul from the work of our redemption. 330. 331 All Christ's Fears were holy. 215 Fear and sorrow in Christ were sufferings for sin. 345 Christ's Fear in the Garden was religious. 371 Christ's ●…eare and sorrow were painful but religious sufferings. 372 What Fear and sorrow Christ was to yield unto God, when he offered the ransom of our sins. 374 What things Christ might justly and greatly fear in the Garden. 380 ●…eare may be intellect●…ue or sensitive. 383 Christ might fear many things besides hell pains. 385 Why Christ feared more than Mattyrs do. 395 Christ might justly fear the p●…wer of God's wrath. 380 Figuratively the Soul may be said to be crucified. 80 Fire in hell is not allego●…icall. 40. 41. 42. 43 The Fathers profess t●…ue fire to be in hell. 46 It is possible that brimstone may be mingled with fire in hell. 47 The same fire punish●…th the wi●…ked both b●…fore and after iudge●…ent. 55 What fire did signify in sacrifices. 112. 113 What fire might note in the holocaust. 116 How Christ was Forsaken on the cross. 409 How far and wherein Christ was Forsaken are the things questioned. 414 What forsaking could not be found in Christ 414 We were forsaken of God till Christ 〈◊〉 us by his death. 417 Christ never forsaken of hope and comfo●…t. ●…7 God showed by the present event that he had not forsaken h●…s s●…nne. 419 We st●…iue not for the word but for the sense and manner of forsa●…ing. 431 
G  GEhenna was not used in speaking to the Gentiles. 618 God can doc more than he will. 23 Gods love to Christ appeared even in his death. 20. 21 Gods purpose in the death and cross of Christ. 154. 155. 156 God useth means and instruments in punishing. 33 God tempereth love and justice in punishing his elect. 147. 255 God worketh good by evil. 254 God is just as well in forgiving as in punishing sin. 262 God was able to save us otherwise then by Christ's death. 287 God was the author of all Christ's afflictions, but not with his immediate hand. 298. 299 God vieth his creatures to perform his judgements. 302 God is the principal agent in all our sufferings, but not with his immediate hand. 302 Gods hand worketh whatsoever means he useth. 300. 301 Gods love to his son overswaied his hatred to our sins. 268 Gods justice in subjecting Satan's kingdom to Christ's manhood. 230 The Gospel differeth much from the Law. 264 How the Grave is a●… habitation for the godly. 575 God would not have our flesh as yet freed from the Grave. 670 Christ was not Guil●…y of our sin though he took our punishment on him. 162. 163 The whole man is guilty of all sin. 185. 186 187. 208 Guilty stretcheth as well to the punishment as to the fact. .266 A mediator not guilty of the sin for which he doth mediate. 276 
H  HAdes what it signifi●…th with the Greek Fathers. 589. 590. 591. 592. 593 Hades what it is with Chrylostom. 589 Ath●…nasius taketh Hades for hell. 599. 6●…0 Hades in Athanasius Creed is not the grave. 659 Hades with Ignatius is not the grave. 657 The souls of the godly are not in Had●…s. 602 Hades is a place of darkness. 609 How Hades is used in the new Testament. 629 Hades with new writers is the grave or hell. 609. 610 611 Hades is a place under the earth. 613 Hades an unseen and dark place. 618 Hades in the Creed must signify hell. 649 Hades is not the ignominy of the grave. 651 Hades was first the name of the devil. 615 Hades is hell or the devil in the new Testament. 619 Hades is hell in the new Testament without any figure. 621 Why Hades signifieth hell in the new T●…stament. 647 Hades with the Pagans was the place not the state of the dead. 616 The whole created world is Hades with the Def●…nder. 615 Hades in effect is nothing but death with the Defender. 624 How 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Inferi concur in signification. 579 How the Defender wavereth about Hades. 619 How Hades is used in the Revelation. 642 How Hades shall be cast into hell fire. 644 S. Luke maketh Hades a place of torment. 621 What Hades Matth. 11. 23. is threatened to Capernaum. 630 Many Greek copies have Act. 2. 24. the sorrows of Hades. 625 Hades in the Scriptures opposed to the highest heavens. 635 Christ loosed the sorrows of Hades. 625. 626 The wall of Hades not broken but by Christ. 657 Hades hath not all the dead. 646 Hades followeth after death. 643 Hades taken for the rulers or persons in hell. 647 The souls of the godly are not in Hades. 602 Hanging on a tree was not the whole curse of the law. 236 Hanging on the cross a cursed kind of death. 237 Innocents and penitents not truly accursed though Hanged on a tree. 238 Hard speeches should rather be qualified then strained to the highest. 271 All affections make sensible alterations in the Heart. 1●…3. 194 The heart is the seat of man's affections and actions. 2●…3 The H●…art suggesting evil sinneth. 311 The joys of Heaven are proper to the place. 455 456 The sight of God in this life ●…uch differeth from the sight of his face in Heaven. 456 The Saints of God had some sight of God in earth, but not comparable to that in Heaven. 460 The souls ●…re not yet in the same height of Heaven where Christ is. 5●…0 541 How many heavens the Scriptures make 541. 542 The graces of God in earth are not the joys of Heaven. 461 Why the Heavens are compared with hell in the Scriptures. 634 God is not the immediate and principal in●…cter of Hell pains. 2●…. 29 The sentence of the judge containeth the essence of Hell pains. 35 Christ suffered not the substance of hell pains. 36 Rejection from God's kingdom essential to Hell pains. 37. 38 Malediction essential to Hell pains. 38 Hell fire is not allegorical. 40. 41 42. 43. 49. 53 54 I never said Hell fire was material. 44 The Fathers profess t●…ue fire to be in Hell. 46 51. 52 So do later Divines. 49. 50 It is possible that brimstone may be mingled with fire in Hell. 47 Chains there are in Hell though not of iron. ●…7 Whether there be true fire in hell before the judgement is not the question. 54 Christ suffered not the essential part of hell pains. 56 Hell pains not the cause of Christ's agony. 58. 59 The sharpness of Hell pains. 60 The foretaste of judgement in Hell, is neither full, final, perpetual, nor gen●…rall. 210 Positive punishment now in Hell. 214 The suffering of Hell pains, no way necessary to our salvation. 220 Men may fear, but not feel the tru●… pains of hell in this life. 320 The pains of hell are no natural affections. 383 Christ might feel somewhat extraordinary yet not the pains of hell. 391 The vehemency of hell pains pass the patience of Men and Angels. 450 The true pains of hell are not felt in this life. 451. 462 The true pains of hell are proper to the place 454. 455 The true pains of hell are above and against nature. 464. 465 We must not re●…oyce in suffering hel●… pains. 441 A broken spirit is not the pains of hell. 516 Christ brought us back from hell. 607 No place for souls under earth but hell. 614 It is not against the faith that Christ's Soul should conquer hell. 622 Christ must rise conqueror of death and hell. 628 The jews were promised their Messias should conquer hell. 628 All the names of hell prove it to be in the earth. 632 Hell is in the earth & yet some devils in the air. 633 Why the heavens are compared with hell in the Scriptures. 634 Our victory against death and hell not full till the last day. 637 638 Christ ●…th the keys of death and of hell. 642. 643 Nothing but persons cast into hell. 645 The Defender maketh three hells in steed of one 645 Christ's spo●…ling of hell precedent to his resurrection. 673 Heretic always urged the same places that the Defender doth. 425 What the Holocaust did signify. 111. 112 What ●…ire might note in the Holocaust. 116 
I.  IMmediate. What suffering is Immediate from ●… God. 27. 32 God is not the Immediate and principal inflicter of h●…ll pains. 2●…. 29 Christ's soul was not tormented with Gods Immed a●…e hand. 34 God can punish the soul by means without his Immediate hand. 219 God the author of all Christ's afflictions but not by his Immediate hand. 298. 299 God is the principal agent in all our sufferings but not with his Immediate hand. 302 How 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Infers concur in signification.  What place Tertullia taketh Inferi to be. 585. 586 Inferi are places and persons under the earth. 5●…7 Inferi are not now the place and state of good and bad deceased. 588 Saint Austin taketh Inferi for hell, and not for the state of the dead. 198. 590 The souls of the godly are not in Inferi. 602 Infernus with the latin fathers is more than death. 603 Inferi not found in the Scriptures in any good sense. ●…04 Inferi no place for the godly after Christ's resurrection. 605 Infernus is not the place nor state of all souls deceased. 606 Christ did not suffer pains truly Infinite. 161 Christ's Infirmity was voluntary. 407 Christ's Infirmity was power. 416 How all the kingdoms of the earth might be showed unto Christ in an Instant. 308. 309 Irenaeus did write in Greek. 584 Where Irenaeus thought Christ's soul was after death. 583. 584 The rule of justice suffereth the stronger to bear the burden of the weaker. 292 Gods justice in subjecting Satan's kingdom to Christ's manhood. 230 Gods justice might punish Christ's body, but not Christ's soul with death. 337 The judgement of God to which Christ submitted himself for our redemption. 348 Gods judgement for our redemption concerneth Christ, men, and Angels. 348 In this judgement God required of Christ satisfaction for the sins of men. 349 
K  K 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. what it signifieth. 625 Christ hath the Keys of death and of hell. 642. 643 Kindred goeth by blood and not by the soul. 509 Our natural Knowledge cometh by sense. 196 The means of man's Knowledge. 199 Our love and joy do follow our Knowledge. 462 
L  LEo maketh Christ's words on the Cross an instruction, no lamentation. 432 How Christ was like us in all things sin excepted. 86. 324 Christ not like us in any sinful affections. 322 How Christ was like us in his sufferings. 323 Christ not like us in any want of grace or touch of sin. 326 To what lower parts of the earth Christ descended. 554 What is meant by the lower parts of the earth. 555 The lower earth is all one with the lower Sheol. 556 The lower Shcol signifieth hell and not the grave. 557. 558 The lower earth Ezechiel useth for hell. 561 The lower parts of the earth are hell. 562 
M  Martyr's and Malefactor's have a strong conflict with death though we perceive it no●…. 389 The glory of Martyrs were not great, if their pains were not great. 390. 391 Martyrs find joy and ease after death, but not in death. 301 Why Christ feared more than Martyrs do. 395 Christ's senses might not be overwhelmed as Martyrs are. 396 The manner of breathing out Christ's Soul was miraculous. 87. 88 89. 90 The Fathers observe that it was miraculous. 91. 92. 93 So do the new writers. 94 Moses prayer for the people examined. 359 The purpose of Moses prayer for the people. 360 How Moses in his prayer is excused from sin. 365 Moses face did shine when he know it not. 461 Moses was not amazed in his prayer. 368 
N  THe name of nature in the graces of God and joys of heaven is a vain distinction. 461 There was no necessity in our redemption but Christ's will, power, and liberty. 283 284. 285 The Fathers disclaim all necessity in the death of Christ. 285 No necessity in the death of Christ 286 Christ's fear and agony came not from necessity but from his humility and fervency. 339 Neither necessity nor infirmity could oppress Christ. 405 New w●…iters teach the sufferings of Christ's Soul without the pains of hell. 536 New writers teach Christ's descent to hell. 546. 547 New writers observe Christ's manner of dying to have been miraculous. 94 
O  Olevians conjectures for his sense of Christ's descent to Hades are but weak. 631 
P.  Pains of this life Christ did bear, but not of hell. 217. 218 Christ's Pains might be unknown and yet not the pains of hell. 161 In outward Pains men perceive and acknowledge God's hand upon them. 170 Pains proper to the soul are not by and by the pains of hell. 214 All Christ's Pains were holy. 215 More required in our ransom then only Pains. 216 We cannot judge of other men's Pains. 328. Excessi●…e Paine bringeth death. 447 How Christ was in Paradise the day of his death. 549 The Parable of the strong man bound and spoiled. ●…74 Christ's Patience was greater than any man's whatsoever his pains were. 394 How Christ's patience exceeded all men's. 395 Christ's patience at the highest before he complained on the cross. 418 Sa●…nt Paul 1. Cor. 15. keepeth the true sense of the Prophet Osee. 641 Paul's wish for the jews considered. 360 The time was when Paul so wished. Ibid. If Paul spoke of the time when he wrote, his words were conditional. Ibid. What Paul meant when he wished to be separated from Christ for the jews. 361. 362 How the Grecians expound Paul's words. 361 How Paul in his wish was excused from sin. 365 Paul wished if it were possible or lawful. 366 Paul was not amazed in his prayer. 368 The true sense of Paul's and Moses words. Rom. 10. 567 568. Positive punishment now in hell. 214 No Positive thing common to good and bad after death. 581 Christ suffered not the proper wrath of God. 19 What proper applied to wrath signifieth. 18 The Scriptures often intermingle proper speeches with figurative. 19 Proper opposed to Metaphorical. 123 A part may Properly denominate the whole. 124 The joint sufferings of soul and body most proper to man. 167 The whole suffering of Christ was not God's proper action. 303 What the Prophets foretold of Christ's sufferings that the Evangelists confirm was verified. 299 In punishing his elect God tempereth both love and ●…ustice. 147 Corporal death in all men is the punishment of sin. 149. 150. 151 God is most just in punishing his Saints. 262 The Defenders partition of punishment applied to Christ is insufficient and impious. 153 All punishment is not for correction or vengeance properly so called. 154 The godly justly punished for their offences. 256 
Q  QVaestion. The first question wholly perverted. 3 The chief points coincident to the first Question. 9 Whether there be true fire in hell before the judgement, is not the Question. 54 When and how far Christ was forsaken are the things Questioned. 414 
R  ransom. To whom our ransom was paid. 228 To save from death is to raise from death. 50 Whence their souls come that are raised to 〈◊〉 ●…25 Redemption by Christ's blood most sufficien●… 67 The Scriptures teach no redemption bu●…●…y the blood and death of Christ. 127 Both body and Soul are redeemed by 〈◊〉 blood of Christ. 128. 129 The body hath not his redemption 〈◊〉 ●…fore the last day. 129. 130 Christ undertook to be our ●…demer 4000 years before he was made man 280 The willing offer of the S●…e to be our redeemer did induce the 〈◊〉 the whole Trinity. 281 The redeemer might pay as well for the prisoners as for himself. 377 Christ's sufferings 〈◊〉 way like the sufferings of the reprobate. 331. 332 Christ's fear 〈◊〉 sorrow not like the reprobates. 448. 449 What is 〈◊〉 by sitting at God's right hand. 651 The clave of Christ's descent to Hades was in the Cree●…e before Ruffinus time. 655 What Ruffinus meaneth by Christ's descent to hell. 655 
S  SAcrifice. Three properties of the true Sacrifice for sin. 99 100 The bloody Sacrifices represented no death but only bodily. 105 No Sacrifices of the jews figured the death of Ch●…ists Soul. 106 What Salt, flower, oil and wine added to the jews sacrifices might signify. 109. 110 What fire did signify in sacrifices. 112. 113 What is consequent to the true sacrifice for sin. 272 Why the people laid their hands on the head of their sacrifices. 277 Fear and sorrow necessary in the sacrifice for sin. 379 More than affliction requisite to Christ's sacrifice. 437 A de●…d Soul is no sacrifice for sin. 527 Wh●…t the Sacraments of the new Testament import. 117 Sacraments do constantly and continually signify and represent the same 117 The Spirit o●… sanctification is the holy Ghost. 511 My exception, to the Defenders instance of the Scape-goate. 106 What was figured by the scape-goat. 107 108 The scape-goat might in some sort be a sign of Christ. 108 How the Scripture limiteth Christ's death. 5. 180 What the Scriptures mean by the wages of sin. 12 What they mean by the wrath of God. 15 Phrases of God's wrath against the wicked in Scripture are improper. 15. 16 Scriptures never mention that Ch●…ist suffered God's wrath. 21. nor the death of the Soul. 493. 49. 515 nor the pains of hell. 399 ●…ow the Scriptures speak of Christ's Passion. 22 Scriptures often intermin le proper speeches 〈◊〉 figurative 48 The ●…riptures sometimes put a condition all to thin most certain. 473 True 〈◊〉 how to expound the Scriptures. 435 Many pla. s of Scriptures have diverse expositions. 4●… which may be tolerated though they canno●…●…e reconciled. 435 The Scriptures 〈◊〉 the words but not the errors of the heat. en. 612 Some Scriptures unc 〈◊〉 ●…ine for a time. 664 Satan was conquered fast by justice, then by power. 229 Satan's kingdom subjecteth to Christ's m●…nhood. 230 Satan assaulted Christ on the ●…rosse but by externail means. 296. 297 Satan might do nothing against ●…hrist but what Christ would. 315 Satan worketh not but where he is. 306 Christ ordered his conquest most to 〈◊〉 shame 669 What was impugned in the Sermons. 2 The text of my Sermons was not mistaken. 72 But rightly and orderly pursued. 78 Our natural knowledge cometh by Sense. 196 Provocations and pleasures come by the senses. 200. 201 The soul for want of her senses sometimes ceaseth to sin. 206 Christ's senses might not be overwhelmed as martyrs are. 396 In what sense Ezekiah useth the gates of Sheol. 247 The lower Sheol signifieth hell and not the grave. 557. 558 Sheol for hell Esay. 14. 559. 560 The souls of the Saints are not in Sheol. 571 Sheol is no mere privation of this life. 572 Sheol is properly a place under earth for the dead. 573 The souls in God's hands are not in Sheol. 574 The Sheol of souls is more than a mere privation. 575 What Sheol is to the wicked and what to the godly. 575 To what Sheol jacob would descend mourning 576 Sheol no place for just man's souls. 577 There is neither knowledge nor praise of God in Sheol. 578 Sheol is no destruction to the godly. 575 What is me●…nt by me●…nt near to Sheol or 〈◊〉 most dwelling there. 500 The Defender abuseth Plato and Plato, to have a Sheol for all things. 630 proveth Moses and David to have a Sheol for all thin s. 631 To what Sheol Corah and his company descended. 631 The Desendours absurd proofs for the Sheol of all thin s. 632 The Similitude of an earthly surety not fit for Christ, though the name may well be used. 282 283 No human similitude can thoroughly fit Christ's sufferings for us. 293 Similitudes are not always of things lawful. 293 Similitude is no equality. 328 How we are freed from Sin by Christ. 152. 153 We inherit sin and death from our parent's flesh 171 How sin is communicated from the soul to the body. 188. 189 All acts of sin by the body. 202 Body and soul that were joined in sin shall be joined in pain. 209 How sin maketh men unclean. 265 How sin was condemned in Christ's flesh. 268 How Christ was made sin. 269. 270 Our sins were imputed to Christ, that is, he was punished for them. 272. 277 Inward and infinite Sorrow for sin must be found in Christ's sacrifice for sins. 372 Christ must as well sorrow as suffer for sin. 373 Inward and voluntary sorrow of the soul is a sacrifice to God. 438 Sorrow differeth from pain. 444 What sorrow is. 444 We may both sorrow and rejoice at one time. 489 What means of suffering the Soul hath. 24 The passibility of the Soul is but one faculty of the soul. 25 The souls suffering by the body is the proper suffering of the soul. 26 The means by which the soul suffereth pains. 30 The souls suffering from and with the body not common with beasts. 31 The substance of the soul suffereth in and by all her powers. 134. 135 The souls suffering by sympathy is the Defenders own phrase. 170 The soul is not derived from the fathers of our bodies. 171. 172 The Soul chiefly sinneth and chiefly suffereth, but not only. 181. 182 What powers and faculties of the Soul the Father's 〈◊〉 corporal and why. 187 The Soul joined with the Body hath one state, and severed another. 198 The Soul useth her corporal spirits in thinking and remembering. 207 The Soul leadeth and the flesh followeth to all sin. 210. 211 The Soul hath a ●…st of sin and pain before the last day. 213 The Soul feeleth pain and grief by her understanding and will. 344 Whence the●… Souls come that are raised to life. 425 The Soul is a consequent to a living body but no part of it. 426 The Soul is some time called flesh. 529 The Soul taken for life. 570 The Spirit of sanctification is the holy Ghost. 511 Flesh and Spirit do not always note the two natures of Christ. 512 The Spirit signifieth the Soul of man. 529 The preaching to the Spirits in prison. 676 The law which curseth offenders admitteth no Sureties. 264 Christ no way bound to be our Surety. 277 Christ a Surety to us of the new Testament. 278 Though Christ may be called a voluntary Surety, yet was he truly a merciful Redeem●…r. 280 The similitude of an earthly Surety not fit for Christ, though the name may well be used. 282. 2●…3 The Law alloweth no offendois any Sureties. 288 I mislike not the name but the bondage of a Surety in Christ. 291. 292 Submission to God and compassion on man the general causes of Christ's Agony. 347 Submission with great fear and trembling Christ yieldeth to God sitting in judgement. 350. 351 The correcting of King Edward's Synod. 675 The things misliked in king Edward's Synod. ibid. 
T  TArtarus a part of Hades with the Poets. 613 Tartarus with the Pagans is hell. 617 Tartarus taken for the a●…e over us. 617 Christ could not be tempted to evil by any motion of his own hart. 304. 305. 306 Christ was tempted in the wilderness by the suggestion of Satan. 307 Christ was tempted after 40. days. 307 Christ was tempted all his life long, but not inwardly. 312 Persuasion tempteth as well as compulsion. 314 Difference of outward and inward temptations. 314 No temptations without desperation kill the soul. 525 The Terror of God felt by job and jonas were not the pains of hell. 452 Tertullian ascribeth all sin to the whole man. 208 What forsaking Tertullian speaketh of. 427 Tertullian nameth no death but of Christ's body. 428 Tertullian is far from affirming the death of Christ's Soul. 532 Tertullian admitteth none to Paradise before the last day but Martyrs. 594. 595. 596 Tertullian therein followed Montanus the Heretic. 597 How 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades and Inferi concur in signification. 579 The story of Thaddeus no fable. 660 Thaddeus did not receive adoration. 662 Thomas, how he might be called judas. 660 Evil Thoughts defile the whole man. 204 Our will the cause of our evil thoughts. 200 Christ's bodily transfiguration was imperfect and transitory. 458. 459 Triumphs are not secret and solitary. 664 
V  VEngeance proper to the wicked appeared not in the Cross of Christ. 156. 157 All Christ's infirmity was Voluntary. 407 
W  WHat the Scriptures mean by the Wages of sin. 12 A threefold death the Wages of sin. 13 Weakness, appeared in Christ's flesh, but willingness in his spirit. 424 Whole redemption, and propitiation are very large and doubtful terms. 103 The Whole man dieth though the soul live. 513 514 Evil thoughts defile the whole man. 204 The whole man guilty of all sin. 185. 186. 187. 208 Our Will the cause of our evil thoughts. 200 What is meant by the Worm that never dieth. 46 What the Scriptures mean by the Wrath of God. 15 What proper applied to wrath signifieth. 18 Christ suffered not the proper and mere wrath of God. 19 23 What Wrath of God Christ suffered. 57 58 What is God's Wrath against sin. 60 God h●…d never displeasure or Wrath against Christ's person. 61 God wrath against sin hath many degrees and ●…arts. 157 How the wrath of God in this life differeth from wrath to come. 158 Christ might suffer the wrath of God and yet not the true pains of hell. 159. 160 Wrath must be measured by God's intention, not man's discerning. 165 The trial of God's Saints is no effect of God's proper wrath. 313 What Christ discerned of God's wrath against our sins. 333 Christ did not apprehend of God's wrath as the damned do. 335 Christ was to see more of God's wrath against our sins then he felt. 376 Christ might justly fear the power of God's wrath. 380 
Z  ZAnchius what he teacheth of man's redemption. 537   

Faults escaped should thus be amended.  
PAge 4. line 25. for fourth read forth. ibid. l. 34. infimities. r. infirmities. p. 26. l. 48. neighbour. r. neighbour? p. 38. title to his. r. to hell. p. 58. marg. of agony. r. of Christ's agony. p. 66. l. 47. death? r. death. p. 230 tit. in subverting. r. in subjecting. p. 353. l. 47. what to do. r. what they do. p. 428. marg. in manibus. r. in manus. p. 466. l. 14. the comfort. r. to comfort. p. 468. l. 4. thambeesa. r. thambeesai. p. ●…69. l. 1. astonished. r. astonished him. p. 473. l. 38. because God. r. because jacob. p. 485. throughout, enlabeia. r. eulabeia. p. 487. l. 49. eisaekonstheiss, r. eisakoustheiss. p. 488. l. 6. eisakonstheiss. r. eisakoustheiss. ibid. 26. & in marg. Zinglius, r. Zuinglius. p. 502. l. 35. in members. r. in my members. p. 597. l. 23. since. r. sense. ibid. 32. affections. r. afflictions. p. 520. l. 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. ibid. 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. ibid. 24. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. p. 522. l. 17. Vigius. r. Vigilius. p. 523. l. 39 enstranging. r. estranging. p. 528. marg. your, r. the.,   

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