THE APOLOGY OF THE ROMAN CHURCH, DIVIDED INTO THREE Several Tracts whereof 1. The first, Concerneth the Antiquity and continuance of the Catholic Roman Religion ever since the Apostles time. 2. The second That the Protestants Religion was not so much as in being, at or before Luther's first appearing. 3. The third That Catholics are no less Loyal and dutiful to their Sovereign, than Protestants. All which are undertaken and proved by testimonies of the learned Protestants themselves. Esay. 19, 2. And I w●ll set the Egyptians against the Egyptians, so every one shall fight against his brother. Jesuit seal IHS Printend with licence Anno Domini 1604. AN ADVERTISEMENT to the Reader. FRIENDLY (Reader) thou art hereby to be advertised, that in regard of the many and great difficulties which accompany Catholics in the impression of their books in England, it was holden the safest course to commit this work to strangers labour, by reason of whose ignorance in our language, and want of due assistance to him in his printing hereof, it falleth out that many words are mistaken and other errors committed, of all which thou art to afford thy favourable and patiented consideration. And whereas the letters or other mark●s of reference occurring in the text, are not (for the reason aforesaid) asserted always in their due and proper place. Let thus much serve once for all to admonish thee, that if at any time thou parceive by the sense of the place, that the said letters or marks of reference, cannot (as they should) relate to the words next following in the text, than art thou in such places to refer them to the other words of the text going there next before. And where also the foresaid letters or marks of reference, have not sometimes their answerable citation or authority alleged in the margin of that page or folio, thou art then to inquire therefore in the margin of the folio which is next before or next following. Thus much but remembered and well observed will be sufficient to deliver thee from many mistake. Thus wishing thy Good as mine own, I bid thee most heartily farewell, This first of April. 1604 I. B. A TABLE OF CERTAIN PROTESTANT WRITERS AND THEIR PARTICULER WRITINGS WHOSE folio, or page are (for more ready and certain direction) specially alleged in this discourse, and of their several editions or year of Print, according to which they be so alleged, unless it be otherwise noted in the margin. A ACCADEMIAE Nemausensis brevis & modesta responsio ad professorum Turnoniorum societatis jesu assertiones: Londini Anno 1584. Adamus Francisci (his) Margarita theologica etc. Wotebergae, 1602. Anthony Sadel de rebus gravissimis disputationes theologicae etc. Cantabrigia, 1584. Acta Colloquij Aldeburgensis Lipsiae 1570. Alison his confutation of Brownism Printed 1590. Anthony de Adamo (his) Anatomy of the Mass, printed anno 1556. Amandus' Polanus professor in Basile (his) Sillogethesium theologicarum etc. Basiliae, M. D.XCU.II. Amandus' Polanus (his) Partitiones theologicae, Basiliae M. IC.CI. Andraeas' Crastovius (his) duo libelli de opificio missae etc. contra Bellarminum Basiliae, M.D.XCIV. Antichristus sive prognostica finis mundi Basileae per Petrum Pernam. Apologia ad acta conventus quindecem theologorum torgae nuper habit. Genevae. 1575. Aretius (his) Loci Comunes Genevae 1589. Andraeas' Althamerus (his) Conciliationes locorum Scripturae qui specie tenus pugnare videntur Norimbergae. Anno, 1535. Abraham Scultetus (his) Medulla theologiae Patrum Ambergae 1603. Acta Theologorum Wirtembergensium & Patriarchae Constantinop. D. Hieremiae etc. Witerbergae 1584. B Baro (his) treatise of God's providence etc. Englished by I.L. printed by john Wolf. Baro (his) four sermons and two questions disputed ad clerum in S. Mary's Church in Cambridge Englished by I.L. printed by john Wolf. Bale (his) pageant of Popes printed 1574. Bertran de loque his discourse of the church translated into English by T.W. printed 1582. Bale Scriptorum illustrium maioris Britanniae etc. Catallogus etc. Basileae apud Ioh●●nem Oporinum. Bancrofte (now bishop of London) his Survey of the pretended holy discipline printed 1593. Beacon the second part of his books set forth Anno 1560. Benedict. Morgenstern. (Pastor Grandentinus in Prussia) tract. de Ecclesia etc. Francofurtie M.D.XCVIII. Beza ad acta colloquij Montisbegardensis responsio Anno 1589. Beza in his sermons upon the Canticles Englished 1587. Bilson (now bishop of Winchester) his true difference between Christian subjection, & unchristian rebellion Anno 1586. Bilson his perpetual Government of Christ's Church Anno 1593. Bilson of the full Redemption of mankind, by the death and blood of Christ Anno 1599 Bridges his defence of the Government etc. Anno 1587. Bullinger his sermons divided into decades and translated into English Anno 1587. Bullinger his hundredth sermons upon the Apocalippes Englished and printed 1573. Brocard upon the Revelations Englished and printed Anno 1582. Barlowe (his) defence of the Articles of the Protestants religion & ce. printed 1601. Bartholomeus Keckermanus (his) Systema SS. Theologiae: Hanoutae 1602. Bell (his) Motives printed 1593. Bucanus (his) Loci Comunes printed M. D.CII. C Carlisle his book that Christ descended not into hell printed 1582. Chemnitius (his) Examen Concilij Tridentini Anno 1578. Chemnitius (his) Enchiridion etc. An. 1590. Cowper (late Bishop of Winchester) (his) Chronicle printed Anno 1565. Chitraei Chronicon Anni 1593. 1594. etc. printed Lipsiae Anno 1595. Camden (his) Britanniae etc. printed Francofurti 1590. Carion (his) Chronicon expositum & auctum à Melancthone & Peucero printed Bernae 1601. Covel (his) examination of some things used in the Church of England etc. printed 1604. Cassiander de officio Pij viri in hoc religionis dissidio Anno 1562. Coelius Secundus Curio de amplitudine regni Dei Anno 1554. Caluin Institutio impress. Argentorat. 1539. Colloquium Altenburgense Anno 1570. Centuria Epistolarum theologicarum etc. à Melancthone, Bucero, Pe●●●ano, & alijs ab Anno 1519. usque 1540 printed 1597. century writers their Centuries printed at Basile per johannem Oporinum the 6. century being printed there 1562. the 7. printed there 1567. and tother ●u●●ormer Centuries being printed there certain several years be●ore. Castalio (his) defensio suarum translationun etc. Basileae per johannem Oporinum. Conspiracy for pretended reformation printed 1592. Crispinus (his discourse) of the estate of the Church, Englished and printed 1602. Covel (his) defence of M. Hooker printed 1603. D De Russorun Muscovitarum & tartarorum religione etc. spi●ae libera civitate veterum nemetum. 1582. Deering (his) readings upon the Epistle to the hebrews. Dent (his) Exposition upon the Revelations Anno 1603. Danaeus (his) Isagoges Christianae part quarta Genevae Anno 1586. Dangerous Positions published in this Island under pretence of reformation and for the presbiteriall discipline 1595. Downham (his) treatise concerning Antichrist 1603. Danaeus (his) responsio ad disput. Bellarmini part. 1. Genevae 1596. Dresserus (his) pars secunda millenarij sexti Lipsiae 1597. Dresserus (his) Millenar. 5. printed Lipsiae 1595. David Pareus de Simbolis Sacramentalibus etc. Ambergae. F Fenton (Preacher at Gray's Inn) his book against Alabaster 1599 Fox (his) Acts & Monuments printed 1563. Fulke against Heskins, Sanders Rastell etc. 1579. Fulke (his) answer of a true Christian to a counterfeit Catholic 1577. Fulke (his) Confutation of Purgatory 1577. Fulke against the Rhemiss● testament printed 1589. Fulke his defence of the English translations of the Bible etc. 1583. Functius Chronologia etc. Witebergae. Fulke (his treatise) against Stapleton and Martial printed 1580. Fox (his) meditations in Apocalipsin printed 1596. Forth (his) apocalypsis jesus Christi etc. exposit. 1597. Fulke (his) retentive against bristol motives & discourse against Sanders, Rock, 1580. Franciscus Gomarus (his) speculum verae Ecclesiae Hannoviae 1603. Fulke de successione Ecclesiastica etc. contra Stapleton Londini 1584. G Gibbens (his) questions and disput. upon Genesis 1601. Gifford upon the Revelations 1596. G●fford (his) demonstration that our Brownistes be full Donatists etc. 1590. Georgius Millius (his) Augustana confessionis explicatio jenae. 1596. Gerhards' G●esekenius de veritate corporis Christi in caena adversus Pezelium printed Francofurti 1598. Godwine (his) Catalogue of the Bishops of England 1601. Gesnerus (his) disputationes xvij. pro sanctissimo libro concordiae Anno 1597. Gasper Olivianus (his) expositio simboli Apostolici Francofurti Anno 1584. Gomaru● see Franciscus Gomarus Gabriel powel (his) Consideration of the Papists Reasons etc. printed at Oxford 1604. H Harmony of Confessions Englished and printed 1586. Hemingius upon the 84. Psalm Englished 1581. Henoch Clapham his sovereign remedy against Schism etc. 1600. Hiperius (his) method. theolog. 1574. Humfredus (his) jesuitismi pars secunda contra Edm. Camp. 1584. Hooker of Ecclesiastical Policy printed at London by john Windet Hill (his) defence of the Article Christ descended into Hell 1592. Hamelmannus de traditionibus apostolicis etc. 1568. Hospinianus (his) Historia Sacramentaria etc. Tiguri 1598. Hemingius de gratia universali 1591. Hayward (his) answer to R. Dolman 1603. Haffenrefferus (his) Loci Theologici 1600. Hierom Zanelius in Epistolas Pauli ad Philip. Colloss. & thessal etc. printed Neostadij 1595. Huberus (his) Theses Christum jesum esse mortuum pro peccatis totius mundi. Tubingae 1602. I jacobus Andraeas (his) Confutatio disput. johannis jacobi Grinaei de caena dom. 1584. jacobus Andraeas (his) Epitome. Colloquij Montisbelgardensis 1568. jacobus Acontius Stratagematum Satanae libri octo Basiliae 1565. jacobus Heilbrunerus (his) Schwenfeldio Caluinismus, 1597. jacob (his) defence of the Church and ministry of England, Midleburgh 1599 john Napeire upon the Revelations London. 1594. jewel (late Bishop of Salisbury) his defence of the Apology etc. 1567. jewel (his) reply unto M. Hardings answer 1566. john Knox (his) answer against the adversary of God's Predestination printed at London 1591. Illiricus (his) Catalogus testium veritatis Basileae 1556. johannes Regius (his) liber Apolegeticus pro Ecclesia Augustinae confessionis vere etc. contra Bellarm. etc. Mulhusij Thuringog. 1603. L Lascicius see de Russorun muscovitarun etc. Luc. Osiander (his) Epitome. hist. Eccles. Centuria 1. 2. & 3. Tubingae 1592. Luc. Osiander (his) epitome. hist. etc. centur. 4. Anno 1595. Luc. Osiander epitome. etc. Centur. 6. Anno, 1598. Luc. Osiander epitome. etc. cent. 7. An. 1599 Luc. Osiander epitome. etc. cent. 8. An. 1602. Lutheri loc. communes Magdebur. An. 1594. Luther (his) commentary upon the Epistle to the Galathians Englished Anno. 1575. Lubbertus de principijs Christian. dogmamatum etc. M.D.XCI. Lobechius (D. and professor in the University of Rostoch) (his) Disputationes Theologicae in Accademia Rostochiensi M.D.IC. Laconici Antisturmij spongia adversus Lamberti Danae● Annosiandrun Tubing. 1580. Luc. Osiander epitome. etc. centur. 16. Tubinga 1602. & 1603. Luc. Osiander epitome. etc. centur. 9, 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. Tubingae 1604. Lithus see Simon Lithus. M Manlij Loci Comunes Basileae 1562. Melancthon (his) Loci Comunes 1536. Melancthon epistolarum liber primus 1570. Melancthon (his) Apologia Confessionis Augustan. 1541. Melancthon Consilia Theologica etc. 1600. Musculus (his) Loci Comunes Basileae 1573. Marloret (his) Novi Testamenti catholica expositio ecclesiastica editio quinta 1593. Mathias Ho (his) Tractatus duo etc. printed Francofurti ad Maenum 1603. Marbecke (his) common places printed 1581. P Parkins (his) Golden Chain printed by john Legat. Parkins (his) Exposition upon the Creed Anno 1596. Parkins (his) Reform Catholic 1597. Piscator (his) Analysis Epistolarum Pauli Londini 1591. Penrie (his) treatise entitled M. Some laid open in his colours. Piscator (his) Volumen Thesium Theologic. M.D.XCVI. Propositions and Principles disputed in the University of Genevae, Edinburgh 1591. Pareus. see David Pareus. Peter Martyr (his) Common places etc. englished & gathered by Anthony Marten printed 1583. Parkins (his) four Treatises etc. 1588. Pantaleon (his) Chronographia printed Basileae 1568. Peter Martyr de Coelibatu & votis printed Basileae 1559. R Raynolds (his) Conference with Harte etc. 1584. Rider (his) friendly Caveat to Ireland's Catholics, Dubline 1602. Rungius (his) Disputationes septemdecem ex Epistola Pauli ad Corinth. etc. propositat in Accademia Wittebergensi etc. 1599 S Sarcerius (his) Loci Comunes tom. 1. Franc. apud Chroferum Egenolphum. Saravia of the divers degrees of Ministers 1592. Spangenburg. (his) Margarita Theologica etc. Witeberge 1541. Simon Pauli Method locorum doctrina etc. 1573. Sleydan (his) History Englished 1560. Some (his) Defence against M. Penrie and refutation of many absurdities etc. in M. Penry's treatise printed 1588. Spark (his) Answer to M. john de Albines 1591. Sutclyffe de Praesbiterio etc. 1591. Sutclyffe (his) Answer to a certain Libel supplicatory etc. 1592. Sutclyffe de Vera Catholica Christi Ecclesia Anno M.D.XCII. Savaria (his) Defensio Tractationis de diversis ministrorum gradibus contra respons. Beze, 1594. Suinglij & Oecolampadij Epistolarum libri quatuor. Basileae M.D.XCII. Smith of Prayer in general for all mankind against those that teach that all men are not to be prayed for, 1595. Simon de Voyon (his) Discourse upon the Catalogue of Doctors Englished 1598. Schlusselburg. (his) Theologia Calvinistarum 1594. Schlusselburg. (his) Catalogue. Haereticorum liber 23. & vlt. 1599 Szegedenus (his) Tabula Analiticae: Londini, 1593. Sigwartus (his) 23. Disputationes Theologicae etc. Tubingae 1603. Simon Lithus (his) Responsio altera ad alteram jacobi Greitseri Apologiam etc. Heidelbergae M. D.C.III. Suinglius (his) Works printed Tig. 1581. T The Disputation had in the Tower with Edm Camp. 1583. The Conspiracy for pretended reformation 1592. Timotheus Kirchmerus (his) Thesaurus explicationum omnium articulorum etc. ex reverendi etc. D. Martini Lutheri operibus collect. 1566. The Christian letter of certain English Protestants etc. to that reverend man R. Ho. 1599 The treatise against the defence of the Censure printed by Thomas Thomas. V Vrsinus (his) Doctrinae Christianae Compend. sive Comentarij Catechetici Lond. 1586. Vrsinus (his) book entitled Comonefactio cuiusdam Theologi de S. caena & eiusdem Comonefactionis consideratio M.D.LXXXIII. Vrbanus Rhegius (his) Loci Comunes 1545. W Willet (his) Synopsis Papismi 1592. Whitaker contra Duraeum: Londini 1583. Whitaker de Sacra Scriptura contra Bellarminum Herbonae M.D.XC Whitaker de Ecclesia contra Bellarminum 1599 Whitguift (now Lord Archbishop of etc.) his defence of the answer to the admonition against the reply of T. C. 1574. Willet (his) Tetrastilon Papismi etc. 1599 Whitaker (his) Responsio ad Rationes Edm. Campiani etc. printed Lichae 1604. Wicelius (his) Methodus concordiae Ecclesiasticae printed 1537. A TABLE OF CERTAIN FATHERS. and of the Anno Domini in which they lived. Anno Dom. Fathers. 880. Adoviennensis. 670. Agatho. P. 120. Alexander Primus. 140. Algerus. 730. Alcuinus. 380. Ambrose. 870. Anastasius biliothec. 1080. Anselmus. 300. Arnobius. 430. Augustinus Hipponenses. 600. August. Ang. Episcopus 379. Athanasius. 1450. Antoninus. 130. Athenagoras. 370. Basilius Ephesim. 700. Beda Venerabilis. 1120. Bernardus. 1460. Bessarion. 605. Bonifatius tertius P. 840. Bertram Presbyter. 560. Cassiodorus. 390. Chrisostomus. 430. Cirrill Alexandrinus. 510. Cirill Hierosol. 240. Cyprian. 80. Clemens P. 1. 180. Clemens Alexandrinus. 1220. Cesarius He●sterbach. 240. Cornelius, P. 370. Damasus. P. 720. Damascen. 90. Dionysius Ariopagita. 380. Epi●hanius. 520. Eusebius Emissen. 520. Euagrius. 520. Eus●bius Caesariensis. 500 Ennodius. 490. Gelasius P. 590. Gregorius Magnus. 340. Gregorius Nazianzen. 340. Gregorius Nissenus. 570. Gregorius Turonensis. 1060. Guitmundus. 540. Gildas. 1120. Glycas. 790. Haymo. 430. Hierom. 370. Hillarius Pictavensis. 240. Hippolytus. 1216. Honorius P. tertius. 1320. johannes Zonaras. 100 Ignatius. 400. Inocentius P. 1. 170. Ireneus. 630. Isidorus 130. justinus Martyr. 800. jonas Aurelianensis. 1100. Ivo Carnotensis. 320. Lactantius. 1050. Lanfrancus. 440. Leo 1. P. 1300. Lyra. 540. Liberatus. 50. Martialis. 1440. Marcus Ephesinus. 250. Methodus. 580. Michael Singelus. 1060. Marianus Scotus. 1250. Matheus Paris. 230. Minutius Foelix. 1300. Nicephorus Calixtus. 1230. Nicholaus Methonens. 860. Nicholaus 1. P. 230. Origen. 350. Optatus. 1170. Otho Frisnigensis. 1170. Odo Parisiensis. 390. Pac●anus. 140 Poli rates. 380. Prudentius. 880. Paschasius. 770. Paulus Diaconus. 350. Philastrius. 450. Prosper. Rhegiensis. 460. Proclus Constantinop. 420. Paulinus Nolanus. 860. Photius Constantinop. 390. Possidonius. 30. Philo. 1140. Petrus Lombardus. 440. Primasius. 1150. Petrus Cluniacensis 1050. Petrus Damianus. 390. Rufinus. 850. Rabanus Maurus. 1120. Rupertus Tuitiens. 380. Siricius Papa. 1100. Sigebert. Gemblacensis. 420. Sozimus P. 430. Socrates Hist. 450. Sozomen Hist. 1482. Sabellicus. 460. Sedulius. 980. Suidas. 320. Silvester Papa. 220. Tertullian. 370. Theodoret. 880. Theophilact. 1380. Thomas Waldensis. 1260. Thomas Aquinas. 1490. Trithemias'. 390. Theophilus Alexander. 170. Theophilus Antioch. 180. Tatianus. 420. Vincentius Lyrinensis. 1220. Vispergensis Abbas. 1482 Volateran. 160. Victor Papa. 480. Victor Vticensis. A TABLE OF THE CONTENTS▪ of every several Section. TRACT 1. SECT. (1) THAT Englishmen were above 1000 years since converted to the now professed Catholic faith, pag. 2. SECT. (2) That the same faith was universally professed for sundry ages then before: and was also agreeable to that first faith whereto the Britons of Wales were converted in the Apostles times, pag. 4. SECT. (3) A further Demonstration by confessed testimony from the Fathers that it was taught in the Apostles times, pag. 9 SECT. (4) Another like Demonstration thereof by testimonies from the ancient jews, pag. 23. SECT. (5) That true miracles make a strong argument, and that the foresaid faith, whereto the English were converted was confirmed with such miracles, pag. 34. SECT. (6) That his majesties Ancestors lived and died in that faith, and that it is acknowledged by Protestants for sufficient to salvation, pag. 39 SECT. (7) That Protestants cannot prove that the Roman Church did change her religion, sin●e her first conversion thereto in the Apostles times, pag. 45. SECT. (8) That Catholics are able to prove the contrary by testimony even from the learned Protestants, pag. 60. TRACT. 2. divided into two chapters. CAP. 1. SECT. (1) THAT Christ's Church was by the predictions of the Prophets foretold to become universal, and to convert with great increase, the Kings and nations of the Gentiles, pag. 73. SECT. (2) That the same was not performed by Protestants during either the first or second 300. years after Christ, pag. 76. SECT. (3) That Constantine our first Christian Emperor was not of the Protestants but of the Catholic faith, pag. 77. SECT. (4) That after the second 300. years after Christ the foresaid predictions were not performed by the Protestants Church, and were yet accomplished by the Catholic Church, pag. 81. SECT. (5) That the known defect thereof in the Protestants Church advantageth the jews against them: made Sebastian Castalio, doubtful of his faith, and David George an Apostata, pag. 84. SECT. (6) A confutation of the Protestants objections & answers concerning their Churches not accomplishment of the said predictions, pag. 87. CAP. 2. SECT. (1) THAT the true Church must have her Pastors, administration of the Word and Sacraments evermore to continue, pag. 91. SECT. (2) That Protestants to prove the answerable performance thereof (for former ages) in their Church, do allege promiscuously both Catholics and known heretics as members of their Church, pag. 95. SECT. (3) That Waldo who lived Anno Domini 1220. was no Protestant & that therefore the examples of Waldo and his followers is not sufficient to prove (but so much as for their times) a continuance of the Protestant Church's, administration of the Word and Sacraments, pag. 98. SECT. (4) The like is showed of Wiclyffe (who lived Anno Domini 1370.) and his followers, pag. 105. SECT. (5) The like is showed of hus (who lived An. Dom. 1400.) and his followers, pag. 109. SECT. (6) That though Waldo, Wiclyffe, and hus, had been Protestants, yet their examples are insufficient in this behalf, pag. 111. SECT. (7) That the examples of Bertram, Berengarius, and others (who lived before Waldo) are also insufficient to answer in this behalf for their times pag. 115. SECT. (8) A confutation of those Protestants who answer that their church's administration of the Word and Sacraments did during all those times continue in being, and yet withal remain as then invisible or unknown: with solution to the usual objection of Elias complaint that he was left alone, pag 120. SECT. (9) A confutation of those who answer that their Church's administration of the Word and Sacraments continued during all those several ages in being, and also known, & that as now through the injury of latter times no testimony or notice thereof is to us at this day remaining, pag. 124. SECT. (10) That even Luther himself was no member of the English Protestant's Church, nor professor of their religion, pag. 126. SECT. (11) That also during the twenty years next before Luther (which are yet in memory of this present age) no example can be alleged of the Protestants (but only of the Catholic) Churches administration of the Word and Sacraments, pag. 141. SECT. (12) A short plain and unanswerable further demonstration of the Protestant Church's defection, and the Catholics Churches continuance, pag. 150. SECT. (13) That therefore Protestants for the preservation of Christ's Church in being, do acknowledge the Catholic Church to have been the true Church & the religion thereof for sufficient to salvation, pag. 154. SECT. (14) A brief repetition of the premises of this second chapter, pag. 156. TRACT. 3. SECT. (1) CONCERNING the confessed antiquity of Catholic Priesthood, Confession, Absolution, Mass etc. and of the Penal laws made against them pag. 158. SECT. (2) The Protestants objection of Catholics disloyalty retorted upon themselves pag. 163. SECT. (3) A repetition of confessed examples proving the loyalty of English Catholics pag. 168. SECT. (4) A like repetition of confessed examples proving the loyalty of foreign Catholics pag. 173. SECT. (5) A protestation of the now English Catholics pag. 175. SECT. (6) That the argument drawn from the confession of the adversaries is strong, with a brief repetition of the principal points throughout all these several tracts, proved all of them by testimony and confession of learned protestants: with an humble petition for private toleration pag. 177. SECT. (7) Concerning the evident incertainety and disagreement of Protestants in their faith, and the reason and particular examples thereof: with a like humble petition thereupon, for disputation: pag. 183. TO THE RIGHT HONOURABLE LORDS AND OTHER THE KNIGHTS AND BURGESSES, ASSEMBLED IN THE HIGH AND MOST HONORBLE Court of Parliament holden this present year. 1604. FOR so much (right Honourable) as the Catholics subjects of this Nation being, though distressed members, yet truly members of that politic Body, which this high and honourable court of Parliament doth represent, have now for a great part of this last declining age, been (contrary to all example of former times) excluded from their accustomed places and voices therein: and continuing yet under such estate, are thereby deprived of all ordinary means to move or answer for themselves, when and where it doth most concern them: It cannot (I hope) seem justly grievous or offensive to any, that being in these straits, and destitute of all other advocates they should mediate the appeasing of their former pressures and calamities, by their own most humble and earnest intercession. Amongst which their sundry endeavours thus undertaken to be made known unto his Majesty, (as to a most Royal and ever flowing fountain of all grace and mercy.) The treatise hereunto annexed was specially one, being at first penned with intention to have the same delivered up to his Highness: But whereas afterwards (his Highness being in the mean time overcharged with multitude of petitions so formerly exhibited by Catholics and others) his princely pleasure was thereupon at last signified not to be further troubled or importuned in that kind; the author of this treatise did thereupon not only alter his first intention concerning the delivery thereof up to his Highness, but also seriously laboured by all careful means & direction for the utter suppressing thereof: In whi●h ●ourse of his said labour, when I perused over the original written copy hereof, which casually and without his knowledge came unto my hands, and had fully considered the sobriety of stile therein so carefully observed and continued without all occasion of offence, and the peculiar and choice method thereof; together with the sund●ie important reasons, enlarged and set down therein, not so much with ornament o● riches of words, as with correspondence & sequel of matter, and that somewhat (perhaps more (*) The Author hath signified his painful allegation of testimonies, to have been undertaken, not ambitiously to paint his margin with multitude of authorities, but only in regard of the adversaries tergiversation and bold denial concerning any point not plentifully and plainly proved: and to the end that what is through his affected brevity wanting in the text, may in further satisfaction (where it s●all seem needful,) be found more fully in the margin. painfully endeavoured in this, then in some other like treatise formerly published; howsoever I could not but commend his foresaid care and good discretion, in not presuming (by delivery of this treatise to his Highness) to become offensive or further tedious to so great a Majesty. Yet could I not but censure his other intendment of suppressing the same for no less than extreme, and fit to be prevented: as holding it unworthy, that so great pains & of such public profit, should for his private satisfaction be wholly suppressed and buried in silence. For which cause I have adventured though (in regard of the reason before signified) not to offend or trouble his Majesty therewith; yet to dispose thereof in an other course and so publishing the same (without the Author's assent) to offer it (with all humble and due respect) to your most honourable and grave considerations. For whom other may we in the confidence and equity of our cause importune rather than yourselves, being the honourable Peers, and grave Sages of our noble Nation? upon whom (next unto his MAJESTY the charge of redressing our miseries is most properly incumbent. Vouchsafe therefore I humbly beseech you, to view even with charitable and Christian commiseration, our present estate & condition described to you in this treatise, and in like manner to weigh the reasons and motives to the contrary therein set down, which are many and important. As first that our affliction heretofore for so many years sustained, hath been for persisting constant in that Faith whereto we Englishmen were above a thousand years since (1) See hereafter tract. 1. sect. 1. converted: that also the same faith is (2) ibid. sect. 2. initio & sect 3. confessed to have been the generally received faith of all Christian countries for sundry hundredth years before those times: that likewise it was confirmed (3) tract. 1. sect. 5. with true and undoubted miracles, and those reported not from the Apocryphal testimony of any pretended fabulous Legend, but from the constant assertion of learned Protestants themselves: That also the same faith is deduced (4) tract. 1. sect. 2. circa & post med. & tract. 1. sect. 3 subdivision. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 etc. up to the Apostles times: In more full demonstration whereof it is likewise yet further showed, as well that Protestants are not able (5) tract. 1. sect. 7 to prove that the Roman Church hath changed her Religion since her first profession thereof in the Apostles times, as also that Catholics have proved (6) tract. 1. sect. 8 the contrary even by sundry arguments demonstratively unanswerable. Furthermore that whereas (according to S. Austin's (*) Aug. in Psal. 30. con. 1. faith. obscurius dix●runt Prophetae de Christo quam de ecclesia. Puto propterea quia videbant in spiritu, contra ecclesiam homines facturos esse particulas, & de Christo non tantam litem habituros, de ecclesia magnas contentiones excitaturos, ideo illud unde maiores lites futurae erant, planius predictum est apertius prophetatum est. etc. assertion) the holy Ghost foreseeing the contentions that would arise about the Church, did therefore by his Prophets speak more plainly thereof then of our Saviour himself, there is in this treatise accordingly described (7) tract. 2. cap. 1. sect. 1. & cap. 2 sect. 1. the prophetical history of the true Church: with like proof of the succeeding answerable event thereof to be most evidently wanting (8) tract. 2. cap. 1. sect. 2. 3. 4. 5. & tract. 2. ca 2. sect. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. & 10. in the Protestants Church, and yet fulfilled (9) tract. 2. cap. 1. sect. 3. & 4 in ours. In so much has the more sober and learned Protestants in preservation of Christ's true Church upon earth for many former ages in which theirs was wanting, are enforced to acknowledge (10) tract. 1. sect. 6. post med. & tract. 2. ca 2 sect. 13 circa & post medium. our now Catholic Roman Church to be the true Church, and the profession thereof for sufficient to salvation, charging therefore their other inconsiderate and headstrong brethren who affirm the contrary, even with ignorant (11) tract. 2. ca 2. sect. 13. fine. zeal. These (with sundry other important reasons) being contained in this treatise, and all of them made plain and confessed, not by doubtful ambagie of words, neither by only sentences of Scriptures or Fathers, though in themselves never so manifest, (for that course is specially and of purpose forborn, as being in regard of our adversaries endless tergiversation no other (then as it were) a vast Ocean wherein we can hardly restrain them to any certainty of fight) But (for their more full convincing) by those special testimonies (whether of Scriptures or Father's) whose evident sense on our behalf, is accordingly, and for such acknowledged even by their own learned writers, and those not few or vulgar, but many and of great estimation; I have in respect of such their frequent and pla●ne testimonies, so fully alleged in justification of our Church and religion, entitled this treatise: The Protestants apology of the Roman Church. How effectual that kind of argument is which is thus taken from the confession of the adversaries, I shall not need to show, seeing the force thereof is not only acknowledged (12) hereof see hereafter tract. 3. sect. 6. initio. by Mr. D. Whittaker and other Protestant writers, but is also of it self manifest even to common understanding; For how can it be denied but that they, who in liking of their own opinion, doubt not to prefer and maintain the same against the uniform and confessed judgement to the contrary, of the ancient Fathers, of our now Catholic writers, and of their own learned brethren, are to be given over as being desperately incurable, & much more worthy of contempt then answer. These things being thus premised, the conclusion of my most humble request is, that you will not forget to remember these known principles of your own schools, as namely that you are but men, and subject (13) tract. 3. sect. 7. paulo post initium. (no less than the Fathers were, or then we yet are) to error, oversight, and misunderstanding of the Scriptures, that therefore you would resolve to (14) 1. john. 4, 1. try the spirits if they be of God, and (15) 1. Thessal. 5, 21 prove all things holding that which is good. And that accordingly you would read over this treatise, not being transported with prejudicate (16) David Pareus (a Protestant writer) in libro de simbolis sacramentalibus. p. 17. post med. confesseth the prejudicate conceit of many Protestants saying. illud vero ego intelligo, multos doctrinam Papae damnare qui eam non intelligunt: damnant vero tantum nominis odio. conceit of your former opinions, but as led the to with indifferent and equal censure. Let not the sway of times, or our miseries prevail to make you so regardless, or us dispiseab●e, that therefore you should be unmindful either of your own souls or our present condition. Thus much but obtained, I doubt not but you will in the end, awake from all former spiritual drowsiness of opinion, & thereupon confess & say of our Catholike Church, as jacob at his bodily awaking said of the place where he dreamt (17) Genesis. 28, 12, 16 Surely the Lord was in this place and I was not aware. The eternal God according to whose will all laws should be made direct you accordingly in your making of laws, and incite or stir up, (18) act. 5, 34, 35, 38, 39 if any (as God forbidden) not yet satisfied with our former troubles, should urge or move for our further continued calamity) some one or other well inspired heart, to persuade and prevail as did the honourable Gamaliel when he upon the like occasion said, (18) Act. 5, 34.35, 38, 39 Men of Israel take heed what you intent to do touching these men: etc. refrain yourselves and let them alone, for of this work● of theirs be of men it will fall away, but if it be of god, you are not able to dissolve it. TRACT 1. TO THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY. IHS AMONG so many and so important reasons (most Gracious Sovereign as are prevailing more th●n ordinary in question of the truth there doth none occur of greater satisfaction, than such as is graced with answerable (*) Mr. Whitaker. de ecclesia controu. 2. quaest. 5. cap. 14. initio. pag. 366. saith firmum sit necesse est argumentum illud quod sumitu● ex adversariorum confession: etc. efficax enim erit adversariorum ipsorum contra ipsos testimonium etc. et quidem fateor veritatem etiam e suis inimicis testimonium extorque re. etc. acknowledgement of the learned adversary: And seeing it is the honourable privilege (¶) Hereby we understand the Puritan preachers & their complices. of our CATHOLIC faith, to be so justified by her enemies, of whom nevertheless many (to make us more odious and dejected) have (of their inveterate hatred) busied themselves in their daily Sermons and otherwise never more then now of late, publicly to deprave our professed religion with all unworthy and scandalous calumniation, perplexing so against us, even the more sober and quiet judgements, with a dispersed contagion of their sophisticated (& to us most dangerous) incantations; we cannot therefore in so great necessity of times, (in our own defence) use either a more proper Antidote to expel the poison of such their intemperate and impurest language, or less offensive means to your MAJESTY, for the appeasing of our former continued calamities, so far as to your PRINCELY and Christian wisdom may seem requisite, then if in this our needful Apology undertaken wholly to that end, we do profess purposely to abstain from all such matter as remaineth questionable, contenting ourselves only with that, which is in itself evident or otherwise acknowledged for true by learned Protestants themselves. The which also we will accordingly endeavour hereby to accomplish, not with insulting against them in matter of unnecessary and unkind exprobration nor yet with affected entertainment of prolonged discourse, (⁋) 1. Cor. 2, 4. Neither in the persuasible words of human wisdom: but humbly, briefly, and plainly, as being very confident, that naked truth, presented thus to your HIGHNESS though but in her native and simple habit, shall yet nevertheless, appear in view of so understanding a mind, both gracious and regardable: THAT ENGLISH MEN WERE above 1000 years since converted to the now professed Catholic faith. §. 1. PLEASETH it therefore your most excellent Majesty to call to mind, that it is now somewhat above one (a) Mr. Couper late Bishop of Lincoln, in his chronicle fol. 156. a. affirmeth our conversion to have been Anno Do. 599. and Mr. Fox in his acts & monuments, printed 1576. pag 117. a. prope finem affirmeth the like. thousand years since Gregory then Bishop of Rome, for his virtue and learning surnamed the Great, a man highly commended both by Fathers (b) S. Gregory is commended by Damascen in orat. de defunctis: by Isodore. de scriptoribus ecclesiasticis cap. 27. and by the Fathers of the eight Toletane Council. can. 2. and by S. Bede hist. l. 2. c. 1. and (c) Mr. D. Humphrey in jesuitissimi. part. 2. rat. 5. pag. 624. saith: Gregorius nomine quidem magnus & revera magnus, vir magnis & multis divinae gratiae dotibus exornatus: etc. And Mr. Godwyne in his catalogue of the bishops of England. p. 3. ante med. saith: That Blessed & holy Father S. Gregory was the occasion of replanting the Christian faith in our country: and Mr. W●itaker contra Duraeum. l. 5. pag. 394. fine. saith. quod nos magno beneficio affecit Gregorius, id semper gratissima memoria recolemus: Protestants, converted us English men (by the preaching of Austin) from heathenish infidellitie to the faith of Christ. Concerning the religion professed by Gregory, and whereunto we were as then so by him converted, it was so undoubtedly our now professed Catholic faith, that the protestant writers (not of vulgar note but those that are for learning reputed most accomplished, do for such throughout every particular specially and at large (d) In proof that our then conversion was to every particular point of our now professed Catholic faith, Mr. D. Humphrey in jesuitissimi part. 2. rat. 5. pag. 626. & 627. saith. In ecclesiam vero quid invexerunt, Gregorius & Augustinus. onus caeremoniarum: etc. intulerunt pallium archiepiscopale ad sola Missarum solemnia: Purgatorium etc. oblationem salutaris hostiae, & preces pro demortuis etc. reliquias, etc. transubstantiationem, etc. novas templorum consecrationes etc. ex quibus omnibus quid aliud quaesitum est, quam ut indulgentiae, monachatus, Papatus reliquunque Pontificiae superstitionis chaos extruatur? Haec autem Augustinus magnus monachus, a Gregorio monacho edoctus, importavit Anglis: etc. Also Luke Osiander in his epitome. historiae ecclesiasticae centuria sexta pag. 289. fine. & 290. initio. describeth it yet more particularly, saying. Augustinus romanos ritus, & consuetudines Anglicanis ecclesijs obtrusit, nimirum Altaria, Vestes, Imagines, Missas, Calices, Cruces, Candelabra Thuribula, Vexilla, sacra Vasa, Lustrales aquas, Romanarum ceremoniarum codices: etc. And ibid. pag. 288 prope finem. he saith of Gregory, in pluribus articulis turpiter & pontificié hallucinatus est, nam & libero arbitio & bonis operibus nimium tribuit, de poenitentia non recte docet, caelibatum ministrorum ecclesiae acriter ursit, invocationem Sanctorum eorumqué cultum, sed & imaginum idolatricam venerationem approbavit, palliavit, & defendit: Also the century writers of Magdeburg in their sixth century ca 10. col. 748. circa med. make like report of Austin's doctrine to us English men. And collecting (else where in the sam● book) out of Gregory's own writings by them recited certain his opinions which th●● hold for erroneous, as being popish they do in their index or Alphabetical table of tha● sixth century at the word Gregorij specially set down (with figures of p●rticuler reference w●● every such said opinion is to be found, as followeth.) eiusdem error de bonis operibus, de 〈◊〉 ●sessione, de coniugio, de ecclesia, de Sanctorun invocatione, de inferno, de justificatione, 〈◊〉 ●●rbitri● de Paenitentia, de Purgatorio, de Satisfactione,: Also they charge him ye● 〈…〉 ●●itings with Consecration of Altars, Chalices, and Corporals: col. 369. fine. with Oblati●●rifice for the dead col. 473. post med. with Exorcism col. 376. circa med. with translati●●●●ues. col. 381. fine. & 382. with monachism. 383. initio. & 384. with Pilgrimage. co● 〈…〉 with Consecration of Churches, with Mass, Relics and sprinkling of holy water. 〈…〉 with Con● 〈…〉, of ●ap●●●e, of ●o●●ia, and O●le: ●l. 367. prope in●●um. ●●●h C●●●r●ti●n of Mass: 〈◊〉. 36●. ●●n● & 370. ●i●o, & 693. post med. & 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉: & with Claim & exercise of jurisdiction & P●●macie over all Churches: ●ol. 425, 426, 427, 428 429, 430. 431. 432. etc. with which last point concerning Primacy he is in like manner charged and reproved by Mr. D. Fulke in his confutation of Purgatory pag. 310. ante med. and by Peter Martyr in cap. 8. judicum. describe it: Mr. Doctor Fulke terming it therefore in general our perversion (2) Mr. Fulke in his confutation of Purgatory. pag. 333. initio. : Danaeus also calling it, inebriatio (*) Danaeus in resp. ad disputat. Bellarm. part. 1. pag. 780. fine. meretricis de qua est apoc. 17. vers. 4: and Mr. Harison confessing likewise that (3) Mr. William Harrison in his description of Brittany set before Holl●nshed great Chronicle volum. 1. (after the last edition) pag. 29. b. line 11. And see his other more plain words. ibidem. pag. 27. a. line 27. Austin came and brought in Popery: with whom agreeth Mr. Bale, affirming that Aust. (e) Mr. Bale in catalogue. scriptorum illustrium maioris Britaniae cent. 14. pag. 117. saith of Austin, plebem per interpretes fidem papisticam docuit. by his interpreters taught our people the Papistical faith with the profession whereof they doubt not likewise sin plain terms,) particularly to charge certain famous and godly learned English men, who lived in the ages next after our said conversion, as namely (f) Mr. Bale in Catallog scriptorum illustrium maioris Britaniae centur. 14. pag. 145. speaking of their martyrdom saith: Passisunt pro papismo papistici martyrs Anno 693. And see further the century writers cent. 7. cap. 6. col. 154. and Luc. Osiander in epitome. cent. 7. l. 4. c. 20. pag. 331. circa & post med. the two (memorable) brethren named Eualdi whom they therefore call Papistical: and S. Bede whom they likewise expressly charge with (g) Luc. Osiander in epitome. cent. 8. l. 2. c. 3. pag. 58. initio saith of Beda: Omnibus pontificijs erroribus (in articulis in quibus nos hody a Papa dissentimus) involutus est etc. and saith yet further of him, bonus fuit vir: error in all those popish articles wherein they at this day dissent from the Pope: and yet (that his profession notwithstanding) they do think him worthy of the surname of (h) Mr. Fox in his acts and monuments printed 1576. pag. 128. b. initio, and M. Couper in his chronicle at the year 724. fol. 168. b. and Hollinshead in his great Chronicle of the last edition volum. 1. pag. 130 b. initio. reverend not doubting to number him amongst (i) Mr. D. Humphrey in jesuitismi. part. 2. rat. 3 pag. 326. ante medium. the godly men raised up by the holy Ghost. THAT THE SAME FAITH WAS Universally professed for sundry ages before, and was also agreeable to that first faith, where to the Britons of Wales were converted in the Apostles times. § 2. 〈…〉 (most dread Sovereign) being our confessed Catholic religion, whereunto most undoubtedly we were (so many ages since) thus converted, and for which we have of late years endured such affliction, was not as then private only unto Rome, or us Englishmen, but (as our adversaries do complain) was universally then (k) Mr. Parkins in his exposition of the Creed pag 307. saith: During the spa●● of nine hundred years the popish heresy hath spread: self over the whole earth professed through the Christi●n world, neither first as then became so universal, but (as they yet further complain and acknowledge) continued such for sundry ages then before. (l) Mr. john Nappeir in his treatise upon the revelations dedicated to your Majesty pag. 68 prope sinem saith. Between the year of Christ 300 & 316. the Antichristian and papistical reign begun reigning universally and without any debatable contradiction. 1260 years. Reigning universally (saith Mr. Nape●e) and without any debateable contradiction, (even) twelve hundredth sixty years: next ensuring the first 300. years after Christ, (*) Mr. Nappeire ubi supra pag. 145. fine faith. Even 1260 years the Pope and his Clergy hath possessed the outward visible Church of Christians: And with this account of Mr. Napeir agreeth Mr. Brocard in his treatise upon the revelations fol. 110. a. circa med. where he affirmeth, that the Church was trodden down and oppressed by the papacy, even from Siluesters time, unto these times: which he there and fol. 123. (b) collecteth to be during the said 1260 years the Pope and his Clergy during all that time possessing the outward visible Church of Christians. In so much that whereas our learned adversaries do truly affirm (as being undoubted) that our neighbours the Britons of Wales, (m) M. Camden in his Britannia etc. pag. 40. circa med. saith: Certum est Britannos in ipsa ecclesiae infancia christianam religionem imbibisse: In proof, thereof he there allegeth sundry ancient authorities. pag. 40. circa med. And pag. 157. paulo post med. he saith. In hac floruit monasterium Glastenburie quod antiquam repetit originem a josepho Arimathensi. etc. hoc enim & antiquissima huius monasterij monumenta testantur etc. Nec est cur de hac re ambigamus. And Mr. Harrison in his description of Brittannie annexed to Hollinshead his great chronicle of the last edition: volum. 1. pag. 23 a. l. 18. saith: that joseph preached here in England in the apostles times, his sepulchre yet in Glastenburie and Epitaph affixed thereto is proof sufficient: Also Mr. HENOCH CLAPHAM in his sovereign remedy against Schism pag. 24. speaking of the conversion of the Britons in the Apostles times saith thereof. Our schismatics may as well ask me what assurance I have there was a King Henry, as demand what assurance I have of the other. This point is also yet further affirmed by Mr. D. FVLKE in his book against Heskins, Sanders etc. pag. 561. sect. 71. and in his confutation of Purgatory pag. 332. also by Mr. GODWINE in his catolog. of Bishops. etc. pag. 1. initio. received the (¶) Mr. BALE in his pageant of Popes saith: The Britons being converted by joseph of Aramathia held that faith at Austin's coming: And D. FVLKE against the Rhemish Testament in 2. Cor 12. sect. 5. fol. 316. a circa med. saith The Catholic Britons with whom Christian Religion had continued in succession from the Apostles times would not receive Austin: And in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic pag. 49. fine he saith: The Britons before Augustine's coming, continued in the faith of Christ even from the Apostles times And Mr. FOXE in his acts and monuments printed 1576. pag. 463. a circa med. saith: faith of Christ by the preaching of the Apostles & held that faith at Austin's coming not being (as they yet further affirm) in the mean time (n) In proof that the Britons of wales at and before Austin's coming into England were not altered by th● ROMAN Church: Mr. D. HUMPHREY In jesuitissimi. part. 2. rat. 3. pag. 304. circa med. saith: Habuerunt Brittanni templa sibi non Romanis, qui tum Romano iugo non erant subditi, nec Romanam religionem suscipiebant, nec Augustinum Apostolum suum agnoscebant: Et vide ibidem. pag. 624. fine. Also Mr. Doct. FVLKE in his confutation of Purgatory pag. 372. initio saith. It appeareth that this Land did never receive the doctrine and ceremonies of the latin Church, before the time of the Saxons. altered or corrupted by the Roman Church: The Britons after the receiving of the faith, never forsook it for any manner of false preaching of other nor for torments. etc. In the special proof whereof (as being most certainly true) (o) Mr. D. BARLOWE in his defence of the articles of the Protestants religion pag. 21. affirmeth the Church of, he Britons to be as ancient every day, and as Christian every way as the Roman, affirming further, the integrity thereof (or not being altered by the Church of Rome) first by their observation of Easter different from Austin: Secondly by the opposition which they made against Austin: Mr. D. Barlowe seriously laboureth: it is nevertheless evident by S. Bede who lived (p) Bede did write his history thereof Anno. 724. as witnesseth Mr. Cowper in his Chronicle fol. 168. b. so near to those times and write the History thereof. And is also acknowledged since by Protestant writers, that upon conference than had at a place thereof called in Bedes time (q) Bed● hist. lib. 2. c. 2. initio saith Augustinus adiutorio usus Edilberthi Regis, convocavit ad suam colloquium, Episcopos sive doctores maximae & proximae Britonum provinciae, in loco ubi usque hody linqua anglorum Augustineizat appellatur: And Holenshead in his great Coronicle of the last edition. volum. 1. l. 5. c. 21. pag. 102. b. line. 33. 40. etc. maketh like mention hereof. Austineizat between Austin and the Britton Bishops, who at the first frowardly resisted Austin all they could, (for which Mr. Fox not unjustly reproveth them) (r) Mr. Fox in his acts and Monuments printed 1576. pag. 120. b. the greatest differences then stood upon between Austen and them, were expressly and only mentioned to be (s) Beda hist. l. 2. c. 2. paulo post med. reporteth how Austin said to the Britons: si in tribus his obtemperare mihi vultis ut Pascha. suo tempore celebretis, ut ministerium Baptizandi quod co renascimur justa morem romanae & apostolicae ecclesiae compleatis, ut genti Anglorum una nobiscum praedicetis verbum Domini, cetera quae agitis quamuis moribus nostris contraria, equanimiter cuncta tollerabimu●. And the like is testified by Hollenshead volum. 1. pag. 103. a. line 17. and by Mr. Godwine in his catallog. of the bishops. etc. pag. 6. ante med. their dissent from the use of the Roman Church in their (Ceremonies) or ministering of Baptism and keeping of Easter: which let ere (as Luc. (t) Luc. Osiander in epitome. cent. 2. l. 3. c. 2. pag. 51. circa med. saith: joannes & Philippus apostoli Pascha celebraverant decima quarta luna post aequinoxium vernum, quo tempore judaei etiam pascha suum celebrare solebant, idque apostoli haud dubie fecerunt in gratiam corum judae orum, qui nuper ad Christum conversi fuerunt, & ut plures etiam judaeos Christo lucrifacerent: Osiander witnesseth from antiquity) was tolerated by the Apostles in re●arde of the known weakness of some, even as for like respect (v) act. 16.3. Circumcision was by them in like sort tolerated, and (x) act. 15.29. abstinence from blood and that which was stra●g●ed specially prescribed: By which their so earnest dissenting about these only matters of smaller importance, is most plainly signified (*) For the Britons who Contradicted Austin and that so earnestly about these so few and smaller points, would never have been silent, but much the rather have withstood him in the other so many and comparably much greater points of faith, had they in like sort disagreed from him therein: their full agreement in all other substantial and head points of faith: Which thing is also as yet more certainly evident, aswell in that the Britton bishops as then (y) Beda hist. l. 2. c. 2. ante med. saith, tum Britones quidem confitentur intellexisse severam esse viam justiciae, quam praedicaret Augustinus: Hereof also see Hollenshead ubi supra pag. 102. b. line 54. Confessed that it was the right way of justice & righteousness which Austin taught: As also for that (z) Mr. Fulke in his confutation of Purgatory, pag. 335. prope finem. Austin did (as Mr. Fulke affirmeth at the last obtain the aid of the British bishops to the conversion of the S●xons: So evidently doth that faith which Austin taught us, and which the Protestants acknowledge for Popish, demonstrate itself in general to be consonant & agreeable with that primitive faith whereunto the Britons of wales were (as is confessed) converted in the Apostles times: which point is as yet made much more evident by like further observation of so many other remote Nations converted in the Apostles times as namely of Gracia Armenia. India, etc. which although they be in some things departed from the faith whereto they were first converted, yet by their remnant of religion to this day preserved, sufficiently appeareth what faith it was whether Catholic or Protestant, whereto they were at first converted, and from which they be so in some points at this day departed witness hereof are the several public (2) See in those Liturgies mention made of Real Presence, Sacrifice Prayer for the dead, Prayer to Saints etc. Liturgies of the Cratians, Armenians etc. further witness also hereof is their late professed agreement or (3) Osiander in Epitome. histor. eccles. centur 15. pag. 477. post med. saith. Anno 1430. convocaret (Papa) Eugenius quartus, concilium Florentiae etc. huic concilio etiam Graeci Atmenij jacoboini consenserunt and, Mr. Marbecke in his common places. pag. 258. post med. acknowledgeth that at the Council of Florence the Christians of Armenia and India consented to the Roman Church, and that the Greeks agreed etc. also Abdisu Primate of the Armenians subscribed to the late Council of Trent. submission to our Catholic Church; and most full and plain witness hereof is the answerable (4) It appeareth by the treatise published by the Protestants diverse of Wittenberg Anno. 1584. entitled acts theologorum witebergensium & Hieremiae Patriarchae Constantinop. etc. that the Greek Church at this day though divided from the Latin, professeth to believe Invocation of Saints, Relics, worshipping of Images, Transubstantiation, Sacrifice, the signifying Ceremonies of the Mass. Auricular Confession: Enjoined Satisfaction: Confirmation with Chrism: Extreme unction: all the seven Sacraments: Prayer for the dead: Free will: monachism: Vowed Chastity: the fast of Lent: that priests may not marry after orders taken etc. see this alleged in particular hereafter Tract. 1. ss. 7. in the margin at figure. 11. And Chrispinus in his discourse of the estate of the Church pag. 253. initio: affirmeth that Anno 870. the greek and Latin Churches became divided only for the Primacy and diversity of Ceremonies: so fully did they at that time consent in all other points: And concerning the other oriental Churches further remote, Osiander (in epitome. histor. eccles. centur. 16. pag. 970. post med.) saith, Hoc Anno. 1585. Christiani qui etc. the year 1585. the Christians who inhabit near to Mount Libanus, became at last Conquered, and subject to the Turkish Empire, neither is that to be marveled at, for the Christians in the East have not sincere religion, but are in most part of Articles Popishly. Testimony of our learned adversaries: By which foresaid examples of so many remote nations, so far distant each from other, as namely Wales Graetia, Armenia India etc. Converted (5) As concerning the conversion in the Apostles times of Armenia: See Chemnitius examen. part. 2. pag. 7. b. Paulo ante med. when he saith, Armenit Bartholomeus evangelium praedicavit. of the like conversion of Indiae: See Osiander centur. 1. pag. 37 circa med. & Paulus venetus l. 3. cap. 27. & 43. and Hayton Armen. l. de tartaris cap. 6. the like conversion of Graecia appeareth by Paul's epistles to sundry of that Nation as to the Corinthians Ephesians Thesalonians. And see revelat. 1, 11. & concerning the like confessed conversion of Wales See heretofore pag. 4. in the margin there at the letter. 〈◊〉. undoubtedly all of them in the Apostles times, and agreeing so far with us and against our adversaries in so many principal points of faith, is not obscurely signified that our now Catholic Religion is that primitive faith, which the Apostles themselves first planted in all nations. A FARTHER DEMONSTRATION BY Confessed Testimony from the Fathers that it was taught in the Apostles time. §. 3. WHICH antiquity or prescription of our professed Catholic Doctrine up to those Apostolic times is also made as yet much more probable or rather evident, by that which our learned adversaries themselves do yet further acknowledge and collect from the writings of the more ancient Fathers: To go through every (*) concerning every particular see more fully hereafter Tract. 2. c. 1. sect. 3. particular would be over tedious to your MAJESTY and improper to this place: Vouchsafeth therefore your HIGHNESS that we may give instance in such as be chief. 1 First concerning vows it is acknowledged that (a) Peter Martyr de votis pag. 490. fine. saith: erant ergo Clementis aetate professiones castitatis & vota fateor. jam tum inceperant homines deflectere a verbo dei. etc. the profession and vows of Chastity were extant among Christians in the time of Clement bishop of Alexandria that (⁋) Peter Martyr ibidem. pag. 524. fine saith Scio epiphanium cum multis alijs ex patribus in eo errare, quod peccatum esse dicant votum huiusmodi violare cum opus fuerit, & male illum id refer in traditiones Apostolicas: Epiphanius & many other Fathers erred therein: that (b) centur. 3. c. 6. col. 140. line. 27 & centur. 3. c. 7. col. 176. line. 39 Tertulian and Cyprian taught vows of Chastity: That the same have been used (c) Caluin institut. l. 4. c. 13. sect. 17. ab ultima memoria, and antiquitus receptum: that (d) Peter Martyr de celebatu & votis versus finem. immediately after the Apostles times to much was attributed to vows: that Ignatius himself (though their scholar) signifieth in his epistles: his (e) centur. 2. c. 4. col. 64. line. 40. It is said ex epistolis Ignasij apparet homines iam tum paulo impensius caepisse amare & venerari virginitatis studium, nam in epist. ad Antioch. ait: virgins videant, cui se consecrarins. to much liking of that profession: and (f) Centur. 2. c. 10. col. 167. line 24. de virginitate minus comode loquitur. speaketh incommodiously of virginity. (*) Abraham Scultetus in his medulla theologiae Patrum. pag. 450. circa med. allegeth Ignatius saying ad Philadelp. Saluto collegium: virginum whereupon he immediately inferreth: Ergone in illo ecclesiae flor● fuerunt, quae castitatem & continentiam perpetuam profiterentur Virgins? fuerunt omninq. etc. saluting (and affirming Colleges of Virgins: and so plainly, that our learned) adversaries do thereupon affirm, how that even (⁋) Scultetus ut supra. in that flower of the Church there were Virgins, that professed Perpetual Chastity that lastly S. Ambros and Epiphanius derive (¶) Peter Martyr de coelibatu & votis. pag. 543. paulo post med. & pag. 525. initio. Professed Chastity from the institution of S. Paul: 2 Secondly concerning the Real presence of Christ's body in the Sacrament, the reservation thereof, and the mixture of water with wine in the Chalice: concerning the first, it is affirmed that Gregory, the great (1) Humfred. jesuitissimi part. 2. that. 5. pag. 626. post med. taught transubstantiation that (2( The century writers. cent. 5. col. 517. l. 23 say: Chrisostomus transubstantionem videtur confirmare, nam ita scribit. etc. chrysostom is thought to confirm transubstantiation: that (3) Centur. 4. c 10. col. 985. line. 30 Eusebius Emissen did speak unprofitablely of transubstantiation: that (4) Aothonie de Adamo in his Anatomy of the Mass. fol. 221. a. fine. & see the century writers, cent. 4. cap. 4. col. 295. l. 3 And oecolampadius in libro epistolarum oecolampadij & Zuinglij. lib. 3. p. 765. the books of Sacraments ascribed to Ambros, affirm the opinion of Christ's Bodily Presence in the Sacrament: wherein Peter Martyr likewise professeth to (5) Peter Martyr in defence. object. Gardner. part. 4. pag. 724. And see also Peter Martyrs further dislike of Cyrils' sayings in his epistles annexed to his common places in English, his epistle there to Beza pag. 106. b aunt medium. where he saith. I will not so easily subscribe to Cyrill, who affirmed such a communion, as thereby even the substance of the flesh and blood of Christ first is joined to the blessing. (for so he calleth the holy Bread) etc. And in his epistle to calvin ibidem pag. 98. a. ant med. he proveth further for this opinion Cyrill and some other Fathers. dislike the judgement of Cirill: that (6) In the treatise attributed to Vrsinus entitled Commonefactio cuiusdam theologi. de S. caena & eiusdem commonefactionis consideratio pag. 211. & 218. In Cyprian are many sayings which seem to affirm transubstantiation: in so much as they do (7) The sermon of Cyprian de caena Domini, which this foresaid testimony concerneth, is dedicated to Cornelius who was Bishop of Rome when Cyprian lived, and to whom Cyprian himself l. 1. ep. 1. & ep. 3. did write, in so much that Mr. Fulke against the Rhemish testament in 1. cor. cap. 11. fol. 282. a. circa medium allegeth testimony from thence, affirming that the Author de caena Domini was not in time much inferior to Cyprian. unworthily affirm that Sermon of his in which those sayings are extant to be counterfeit: that lastly Ignatius (8) Mr. Whitgift in his defence against Carthwrightes' reply pag. 408. ante med. who was S. john's scholar, & lived in Christ's time did (as Theodoret 1200 years since, & themselves now do (9) Theodoret. dial. 3. and Hamelmanus de traditionibus apostolicis etc. col. 746. line 18. 19 22, 23 etc. allegeth not only Theodoret but also one Wydefortus alleging Anno 1396. this saying of Ignatius, out of an ancient copy of that time. affirm, and as the Lutherans do object (10) Vide recitationes de concilio scripti libri concordiae etc. (printed Lipsiae 1581.) nona recitat. p. 177. ante medium. in proof of their Real presence, say of the heretics in his time, they do not admit eucharist and oblations, because they do not confess the Eucariste to be the flesh of our Saviour jesus Christ, which flesh suffered for our sins: and one of our adversaries confesseth accordingly, that (11) Adamus Francisci in Margarita theologica. p. 256. saith. Commentum Papistarum de transubstantiatione mature in ecclesiam irrepsit. Transubstantiation entered early into the Church: and an other saith (12) Anthony de Adamo in his Anatomy of the Mass pag. 236. a. ant med. I have not yet hitherto been able to know, when this opinion of the Real and bodily being of Christ in the Sacrament did begin: As concerning reservation of the Sacrament: whereas according to our adversaries Doctrine, (13) Mr. Willet in his synopsis pag. 460. ante med. It is no Sacrament unless it be received. The contrary was so plainly taught and practised, even in the more ancient times of S. Chrysostom, (14) Chrisostom. in ep. 1. ad Innocentium. Cyprian (15) Cyp. in serm. de lapsis post med. Ireneus, (16) Ireneus apud Eusebium hist. l. 5. c. 24. justine, (17) justine in Apolog. 2. prope finem. etc. that Mr. Fulke confesseth hereof saying (18) Fulke against heskin's Sanders etc. pag. 77. prope finem. That the Sacrament (of some) was reserved in the elder days of the Church, is not so great a controversy, as whether it ought to be reserved. and calvin acknowledgeth (19) calvin. instit. l. 4. cap. 17. sect. 39 the reservation of the Sacrament (to be) veteris ecclesiae exemplum, (20) See Peter Martyr. lib. contra Gardinerun object. 88 the example of the ancient Church: & (to omit others) Chemnitius doth likewise acknowledge that (21) Chemnitius examen part. 2. p. 102. a. paulo post medium. witnesses of this custom of private reservation of the Eucharist, are Tertulian, Cyprian, Ambrose, Hierom, Basile, etc. and that (22) Chemnitius ibid. certain of the aunicent Fathers greatly commended the same, as Nazianzen, Ambrose etc. and that it was, (23) Chemnitius ibid. antiqua consuetudo late patens & diu propagata. In so much as Peter (24) See this hereafter tract. 1. sect. 8. pag. 57 in the margin at at the letter. k. Martyr cannot but acknowledge that (by the testimony of S. Cirill) the anthropomorphites were specially condemned for their impugning of the Sacraments reservation: As concerning the mingling of water with wine in the Chalice before consecration of the Sacrament It is so abundantly testified by the Fathers (25) justine apol. 2. fine and Ireneus l. 5. c. 1. Cypr. l. 2. ep. 3. Ambros l. 5. de sacramentis cap. 1. & l. 4. c. 5. Hierom. in morc. c. 14. Austin tract. 120 in Io●n. & de eccles. dog. cap. 75. & de doctrina Christiana lib. 4. c. 21 Euseb. emissen. ser. 5. de Paschate. council. 3. Carthag. can. 24. & council. Auraicen. can. 17. & concil. 3. brach. c●n. 1. & council. tribur. can. 21. & council Aphrican. can. 4. & ex capitulis graec. synd. c. 55 & concil. 6. constantinop. can. 32 of all ages and Countries, that Mr. Whitguifte saith. (26) Mr. Whitgift in his defence etc. pa. 473. prope initium. Cyprian was greatly overseen in making it a matter so necessary, in caelebration of the lords Supper, to have water mingled with wine, which was at that time no doubt, common to more than to him: Mr. Carthwright likewise acknowledgeth that (27) Mr. Carthwrite alleged in Mr. whitgift's foresaid defence. p. 525 fine. in the mingling of water with wine, a necessity and great mystery was placed, as may appear (saith he) both by justine Martyr and Cyprian: and Mr. jewel speaketh of this mixture, confesseth in like manner saying, (28) Mr. jewel in his reply pag. 34. paulo antemed. in deed S. Ci●rian and certain old Fathers, spoke of it, and f●r●● it much, add but now hereto, that the Armenians being the first we read of, that denied the mixture, affirming (with our adversaries) th●t only wine wa● to be used, were therefore specially condemned of error, as witness (29) Theophilac●. in Io●n. cap. 19 ●●nom● the water & blood which issued from Christ's side: saith. Confund●ntur Armenij qui non admiscent in misterijs aquam vino, non enim credunt ut videtur, quoth aqua ex latere egressa sit. Theop●ilact and the Fathers of the si●t Council (30) Council. 6. constantinop. can. 32, saith. Novimus quod in Armenianorum Regione vinum tam tum in sacra mensa offerunt aquam illi non miscentes, qui sacrificium incruentum peragunt: which their usage that council there condemneth, saving there further against it, nam & jacobus Domini nostri jesu Christi frater. etc. & Basilius Cesareae Archiepis●opus. etc. mistico nobis in scripto tradito sacrificio, ita per agendum in sacro misterio ex aqua & vino sacrum poculum ediderunt. of Constantinople, who (above a thousand years since) alleged against them (31) ibidem ut supra. S. james his Liturgy in proof of the foresaid mixture: 3 Thirdly as concerning Antichrist, Altars, and sacrifice, Mr. Whitaker confesseth touching Antichrist saying, (2) Whitaker. l. de Antichristo. pag. 21. the Fathers for the most part thought that Antichrist should be but one man. But in that as in many other things they erred: concerning the short time of his persecution or reign gathered from the scriptures. Mr. Fox confesseth that (3) Fox in Apoc. c. 12 pag. 345. post medium. almost all the holy and learned interpreters do by a time, times, and half a time understand only three years and a half: affirming further to be (4) Fox in Apoc. ca 13 pag. 392. fine. the consent and opinion of almost all the ancient Fathers. As concerning Altars and Sacrifice, (which as D. Rainoldes granteth (5) D. Rainlodes in his conference with Mr. Hart pag. 552. fine. are linked by nature in relation & mutual dependence one of other. And first concerning Altars: Peter Martyr reproveth the ancient Fathers, saying, (6) Peter Martyr in his common places in english. part. 4. p. 225. b. post med. Petrus Alexandrinus etc. attributeth more to the outward Altar then to the lively Temples of Christ. And yet further against Optatus: (7) Peter Martyr ibidem. p. 226. a. initio. Optatus l. 6. against Parmenianus saith, what is the Altar? Even the seat of the Body and Blood of Christ: (8) ibidem. such sayings as th●se (saith Peter Martyr) edified not the people etc. and in no less plain manner is Optatus foresaid saying mentioned and reproved by the century (9) cent. 4. c. 6. col. 409. l. 25. writers: (10) Peter Martyr in his common places part. 4 pag. 225. b. ant med. As also Peter Martyr, reproveth the Fathers in general, saying the Fathers should not with so much liberty have seen ed he●re and there to have abused the name Altar: Now as concerning sacrifice, it is affirmed, by our learned adversaries that the more ancient Fathers, namely (*) See this affirmed by Caluin hereafter pa. 145. in the margin under the letter. t. at Anno. 320 Athanasius, Ambrose, Austin, Arnobius, etc. erred herein, and so fully, that their supper (is therefore said to have) carried the face of a renewed oblation, imitating over nearly the jewish manner of sacrificing etc. that they (⁋) Caluin. in omnes Pauli epist. in haebr. c. 7 vers. 9 pag. 924. b. forged a sacrifice in the Lord's supper with out his Commandment, and so adulterated the supper with adding of sacrifice: that also the writings of Ireneus and Ignatius, (who are most ancient are herein) (g) Cent. 2. c. 4. col. 63 line 9 & cent. 2. cap. 10 col. 167. line 17. and see hereafter pag. 145 in the margin under the letter. t. & at Anno 90. & 170 incommodious and dangerous: and that (h) Sebastianus Francus in his epist. de abrogandis in universum omnibus statutis ecclesiasticis. presently after the Apostles times, the Supper of our Lord was turned into a sacrifice. In so much as some of our adversaries doubt not to charge the ancient Fathers even with propitiatory (*) Andrea's Christianus lib. de opificio Missae pag. 167. initio reciting the Father's opinion hereof saith: Dicta autem Patrum non solum impetrationem sed etiam intrinsecant quandam vim placandi Inuunt Origines hom. 13 in Leviucum a●t: ista est commemoratio sola quae propitium facit Deum hominibus. Athanasius in sermone de defunctis apud Damascenum ait: incruentae hostiae oblatio propitiatio est. To which end he allegeth likewise further the particular sayings of Ambrose, chrysostom, Augustine, Gregory, Bede, and of the 3. Council of Brach: and concerning the Father's further testimonies for Mass see more hereafter Tract 3. Sect 1. in the margin at the letter. t. sacrifice, and sacrifice for the dead: So chargeable were the ancient Fathers no less than we now are, in that great question of sacrifice. 4 Fourthly concerning Prayer for the dead it is granted that (i) Mr. George Gifford in his demonstration that our Brownists be full Donatists pag. 38 and see hereafter pa. 44 post med. & pag. 45. it was general in the Church long before the days of Augustine, as it appeareth in Cyprian and Tertulian: that also (k) Mr. Fulk in his confutation of Purgatory pag. 362 ante med & vide ibid. p. 303 circa med. & 393 post med. Tertulian, Cyprian, Austin, Hierome, and a great many more, do witness that sacrifice for the dead i● the tradition of the Apostles. That likewise prayer for the dead is taught in the writings (l) Mr. D. Fulke in his confutation of Purgatory pag. 353 & 354 aunt med & vide Dio●is. de eccles. Hierarch. c. 7. part 3. now extant under the name of Dionysius Ariopagitta, who is mentioned in the Acts, (m) Act. 17, 34. and those writings aswell (n) Mr. Fulke against the Rhemish Testament in 2. Thess. 2. sect 19 fol. 361. b. paulo ante med. thinketh that Dionysius lived in the time of Origen. acknowledged by Mr. Fulke to have been written above 1300. years since, (which was long before the objected (*) Where as it is usually objected against this book that if it had been the writing of Dionysius then Eusebius or Hierome would have mentioned it, this confessed antiquity thereof before their times, avoideth that objection, which is also no less plainly avoided by Eusebius hist. l. 5. c. 26. and Hierome (in catul. prope initium) who signify that the books of sundry writers were unknown to them. times to the contrary of Eusebius and Hierome) as also alleged specially by Mr. Sutcliffe as being (o) Sutcliffe de Presbiterio c. 13 pag. 91 prope finem saith. Dionysius antiquitatis optimus sane testis, videtur enim esse antiquissimus etc. And the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury in his answer to the admonition pag. 105 sect vlt. allegeth Dionysius saying, Dionysius Ariopagitta in his book de caelesti hierarchia & seventh chapter speaketh thus. etc. And see hereafter in this Section numb. 13 in the margin at this mark (¶) most ancient, and the best witness of antiquity. In like manner concerning Limbus Patrum where as Bellarmine allegeth in proof thereof the plain testimonies of the Greek Fathers, as namely of (2) Bellarm. tom. 1. l. 4 de Christi Anima cap. 14 justine, Ireneus, Clemens, Origen, Eusebius, Basill, Nazianzen, Nicen, Epiphanius, chrysostom, etc. and of the Latin Fathers (3) Bellarm. ibid. Tertulian, Hippolytus Cyprian, Hilary, Gaudentius, Prudentius, Ambros, Hierome, Rufinus, Austin, Leo, Fulgentius, etc. our advesarie Dan●●us answereth to their testimonies saying. (4) Danaeus ad Roberti Bellarmini d●●put. part. 1 pag. ●76. paulo post med. as concerning them, they were not inctructed out of God's word, neither do they confirm their opinion from it, but only from their own conjectures etc. In like plain manner doth my Lord of Winchester make his acknowledgement, saying. (5) Master Bilson in his book of the full redemption of mankind pag. 188 fine. All the Fathers with one consent affirm, that Christ delivered the souls of the patriarchs and Prophets out of Hell, at his coming thither, and so spoiled Satan of those that were in his present possession: whereunto might be added the like liberal and plain (6) Mr. Whittaker contra Dur●um l. 8. p. 567. fine. answereth to Dureus his testimonies from the Father's concerning Lymbus Patrum saying: quod scripturis evincere minus potuisti, id Patrum Testimonijs procul dubio conficles: de qu●bus ut tibi quod fentio libere, breviterque respondeam, apud me una scripturae vocula plus habet ponderis, quam mill Patrum sine scripturis pronunciata, itaque non expectabis dum singulati● hos Patrum errores diluo. And see further Mr. Whitaker ibid. pag. 773. initio And D. Barlowe in his defence of the articles of the Protestants religion pag. 173 Post med. sayeth hereof. This passeth most rife among the Fathers, who taking Inferi for Abraham● bosom, expound it that Christ went thither, ad liberandum liberandos, to convey the Father's deceased before his Resurrection into the place where now they are. confession of Mr. Whitaker and Mr. D. Barlowe. In so m●ch as joannes Lascicius a learned Protestant of Polonia, doubteth not to affirm (7) joannes Lascicius in the book entitled de Russorum, Muscovitorum, & Tartarum Religione. pag. 122 initio & 123 and derive the Doctrine thereof, from manifest (8) See the testimony of Ignatius in his epistle ad Trallianos paulo post med. and the like testimony of Thaddeus apud Euseb. hist. l. 1. cap. vlt. testimonies of Ig●atius, (9) Mr. Whitguift in his defence etc. pag. 408 ante med. who was scholar to S. john. as also of Thaddaeus who was one of (10) Mat. 10, 3. the twelve. the authority and credit of which last Testimony Frigenilleus (11) Frigevilleus Gawius in his Palma Christiana pag. 74 post med. Gawius (an other Protestant writer) undertaketh specially to defend. 5 Fiftly as concerning freewill, it is affirmed that Protestants (p) So sayeth the Puritans in their brief discovery of untruths etc. contained in D. bancroft's sermon pag. 203 fine. know that ever since the Apostles time in a manner it flourished every where, until Martin Luther took the sword in hand against it. And that accordingly the most ancient Fathers, namely (*) Hereof see Abraham Scultetus in medulla theologiae patrum pag. 369 post med. & 304 post med. & 466. fine & 151 paulo ante med. & 105 circa medium & 98 circa med. & 48 prope initium & fine. & 66 fine & 73 initio & 40 aunt med. and see the century writers cent. 2 c. 4 col. 58 line 30 & col. 59 line 11. & cent. 3 c. 4. col. 77 & 78 & col. 48 line 15. . Cyprian, Theophilus, Tertulian, Origen, Clemens Alexandrinus, justine Ireneus, Athenagoras Tatianus: etc. erred therein: 6 Sixtly as concerning free-will & merit of works Mr. D. Humphrey saith, (q) Humfreid. jesuitismi pa●t. 2 pag. 530 ante med And concerning the confessed doctrine of Me ite, of W●rkes in Clemens Alexandrinus, Theophilus, Cypr. justine, Martyr etc. See Abraham Scult●tus ubi supra pag. 48. ante med. & 122 post med. & 151 post med. And the century writers cent. 2. c. 4 & cent. 3 c. 4. it may not be denied but that jereneus, Cl●menes, and othery (quos vocant Apostolicos) called Apostolical (in respect of the time in which they lived, have in their writings the opinions of freewill● and of merit of wooks: 7 Seventhly concerning free-will, merits of works, invocation of Saints, and such other like: The Lord archbishop of Canturbury discourcing of (r) Mr. Whitguift in his defence etc. against the reply of Carthwrite pag. 472 fine & 473 initio. Doctrine taught in any age ●ine the Apostles time: affirmeth without any other exception, either of age or Father, that (to use his own words) (s) Mr. Whitguifte ubi supra pag. 473 paulo post initium and ●e Mr. Lovel in his examination etc. pag. 120. almost all the bishops and learned writers of the Greek● Church, and Latin also f●r the most part were spotted w●●h Doctrine of free-will, of merit, of invocation of saints, and such l●ke: 8 Eightly concerning Baptism, that the most ancient Fathers (who succeeded next to the Apostles scholars) namely justine, Cl●ment etc. (2) Centur. 2. c. 4. col. 47. line. 43. and in Centur. 3. c. 4. col. 82. line. 55. it is said: Affirmare audet Ciprianus quod persona Baptizans Spiritum sanctum conferat & Baptizatum intus sanctificet. thought regeneration (not to be signified but) wrought by Baptism, and the word; unto which (two) joined together they attribute efficacy, that is to say remission of sins: that also (3) Cent. 3 cap. 6. col. 125 line 16. Origen, Tertulian, and transverse, mention how that the Baptized people were accustomed to be signed with the sign of the Cross. That there were likewise then used in Baptism sundry other Ceremonies as (4) cent. col. 124. line 53 & col. 126 line 20. Abrenunciati●: (5) cent. 3. col. 125. line 1 & 124 line 57 Three sold immertio, (6) centur 3. col. 125 line 9 uncton etc. that (7) So saith Carthwrite in Mr. Whitguifts defence etc. p. 522 fine And Bullenger in his decades in English decad 5. serm. 8. pag. 1049. a. circa med. Austin was of mind that Children could not be saved without Baptism: that (8) Musculus ho. common. de Baptismo pag. 308. post med. Austin and many Fathers were of the same opinion. In so much that (as Caluin confesseth) the Fathers hereupon doubted not (9) Caluin. institut. lib. 4 c. 1 sect 20. almost from the very beginning of the Church, to use the Baptism of lay persons in danger of death. 9 Ninthly concerning Confession, Absolution, Penance and satisfaction: that even (10) cent. 3. cap. 6. col. 127. line 28. and see the words alleged hereafter tract. 2. sect 7. in the margin at the letter c. nearest the end in (those firster) times of Cyprian and Tertulian was used private Confession (even) of thoughts and lesser sins, and that the same was (11) vide ibidem then commanded and thought necessary that also as then Penance (12) cent. 3. col. 127 line 40 or satisfaction was enjoined according to the offence. that the same Fathers (13) Whittaker contra Camp. rat. 5 pag. 78 and see him also alleged in Mr. Fulkes defence of the English translations c. 13 pag. 368 ante medium. though by (such) their external discipline of life, to pay the pains due for sins, and to satisfy God's justice. That (14) Whitaker in resp. ad. Camp. rat. 5 pag. 78 paulo ante medium. not Cyprian only; but almost all the most holy Fathers of that time were in that error and that the Priest, when Confession was (as before) made, and Penance enjoined, (15) Cent. 3. col. 129. l. 77. did afterwards absolve the Penitent (even) (16) Vide ibid. And see this ceremony of imposing the Priests hand in absolution mentioned by Cyprian in serm. de lapsis paulo ante med. & l. 3. ep 17. & 18 Concil. 4. Carthag. Can. 76. & 78 & Chrisost in joh. 20. hom. 85 fine. with the now like used Ceremony of imposing his hand. 10 Tenthly concerning the Primacy of Peter, and the Roman sea, our adversaries reprehend sundry of the Fathers for their affirming the Church to be builded upon Peter: namely (17) cent. 4 col. 1250 line 2. S. Hierome: (18) cent. 4. col. 555 line 30 Hillary: (19) Cent. 4 col. 558 line 54 Nazianzen: (20) Cent. 3 col 84 line 37 Tertulian (21) Cent. 4 col. 84 line 59 Cyprian: (22) Cent. 3. col. 85 line 3. Origen: and in general (23) Caluin. institut. l. 4 c. 6. sect 6 saith. In Petro fundatam esse ecclesiam quia dictum sit, super hanc petram etc. At nonnulli ex Patribus sic exposuerunt, sed recl●mat tota scriptura etc. And Daneus in respons. ad Bellarmini disput. part. 1 pag. 277 post med. saith. Patres pessime de Petri persona sunt interpretati etc. many Father's reproving also others for their entitling Peter (24) Cent. 4 col. 556 line 17. the head of the Apostles: & (25) ibidem col. 1074 l. 16 the bishop of Bishop's in so m●ch that whereas the Fathers doubted not to celebrate publicly a yearly festival (26) Concil. 2 Turonense 2 can. 16 saith: sunt etiam qui in festivitate Cathedr● domini Petri Apostoli etc. And Austin serm. 15 de Sanctis saith. Institutio solemnitatis hodiernae, a Senioribus nostris cathedrae nomen accepit, etc. recte ergo ecclesiae, natalem sed●● illius colunt, quam Apostolus pro ecclesiarum salut suscepit, dicente Domino, tues Petrus etc. ideo dign fundamentum hoc ecclesia colit: and see farther mention hereof in Beda in martirologio. day, in honour of Peter's sea (which respect so had thereto, is more than we find had to any other sea of any o●her Apostle:) Daneus answering hereunto affirmeth the Father's assertion, hereof to be (27) Danaeus in resp. ad Bellarmini disput. part. 1 page 375 fine et 276 initio: the judgements and testimonies of the Church then corrupt d and bewitched, or made blind with this error. As concerning the Primacy of the Roman sea, the Centurists s●y (*) Cent. 5 cap: 10 col: 1262 line 30. Leo very painfully goeth about to prove that singular pre-eminence was given to Peter above the other Apostles, and that thence rose the Primacy of the Roman Church: and Beza further saith (⁋) Confess. Geneue c: 7 sect 12 and Whitaker de concilijs contra Bellarminum pag. 37 paulo ante medium faith, de Leone primo non laboro, magnus ille suit Antichristiani regni architectus, and yet ibidem pag. 34. circa medium he sayeth: of Leo, fuit ille quidem doctus & pius Episcopus, sed fuit tamen magis ambitiosus: etc. it is manifest that Leo in his Epistles doth clearly breath forth the arrogancy of the Anticristian Roman sea and my Lord of Canterbury saith (¶) Mr. Whitguifte in his defence pag. 342 post med. it is certain that then viz. in the time of the ancient carthage & Aphrican Council the bishop of Rome began at least to claim the superiority over all Churches. In like manner is that ancient council of Sardis whereat sundry fathers of the Council were present, charged for acknowledging (28) Hereof see Osiander cent. 4. p. 294 ante med. and Caluin instit. l. 4 c. 7 sect 9 and see hereafter Tract. 1 sect. 7 in the margin at the letter d of the second alphabet. appelles to the bishop of Rome and Mr Ful●ke and other Protestants affirm that the ancient Roman bishops (29) See Mr. Fulke alleged hereafter Tract. 1 sect 7 letter a of the second alphabet: And see Spark against Mr. john de Albines in his answer to the preface ant med. and Osiander cent. 5 pag 28 & 218. Anastasius, Innocentius, zozimus, Boniface and Celestinus, (who lived 1200 years since) challinged prerogative over the bishops of Aphrica by sorging a false canon of the Nicen Council which pretence of forgery is hereafter (30) See hereafter Tract 1 sect 7 in the margin at the letter c. d. of the second alphabet avoided: Mr. Whitaker saith also of julius Bish●pe of Rome (who lived in Constantine's time) that (31) See Whitaker de concilijs etc. quoest 2 pag 42 fine 43 initio & 44 paulo ante med. he challenged to himself authority that no Council should be celebrated without the sentence of the Bish●pe of Rome: S. transverse though a bishop of Aphrick (who lived Anno. 240.) is charged by the century writers for his affirming (32) Cent. 3 c. 4 col. 84 line 44. our chair sounded by our Lord's voice upon the rock: and that (33) ibid. l. 49 there ought to be one bishop in the CATHOLIC Church: & for his challenge (34) ibid. l. 56 Peter's chair the principlll Church from whence Priestly virtue ariseth and last for his (say they) (35) ibid. line 51. teaching without any foundation of scripture, that the Roman Church ought to be acknowledged of all others, for the Mother and Root of the Catholi k Church victor (36) Mr. Whitgifte in his defence etc. pag. 510 prope finem. (as my Lord of Canterbury affirmeth) lived Anno 198. and was a Godly bishop and Martyr, and the Church at that time in great purity: (as) not being long after the Apostles time: yet is he charged by Amandus Polanus to (37) Amandus' Polanus in silogethesin theologiae. p. 165. have showed a Papal mind & a●r gancie: and by M. Spark (38) Mr. Spark. against mr. john d'Abbines in his answer to the preface ant med. and see Osiander cent. 2. pag ●7 & 96. somewhat Popel k● to have received h●s bonndes when he took● upon him to excommunicate the bishops of the East Mr. Whitaker also charging him with (*) Whitaker contra Dureum. l. 7. pag. 480. initio exercising jurisdiction upon former Churches: Lastly S. jerneus (who lived next after the Apostles scholars and in the same time victor) is disliked for his affirming, that (39) The century writers. cent. 2. c 4 col. 64 line 10 all the Church ought to accord to the Roman Church in regard of a more powerable principality: wherein the Centurists charge him with (40) See the 2. century in the Alphabetical table at the word Irenaeus. a corrupt saying concerning the Primacy of the Roman Church: 11 eleventhly as concerning the appointed Fast of Lent: St. Ambrose saith (2) Ambrose serm. 25 34. & 36 it is sin not to fast in Lent: for which M. Carthwright (3) Mr. Cartwrite alleged in master Whitgiftes defence p. 100 initio. reproveth him: & yet no less is affirmed by (4) Aug de tempore serm. 62 & 77 S. Austin (5) Chrisost. ad pop. ho. 6. prope finem. chrysostom and other (6) council. 8. Tol. can. 9 Fathers: in so much as Chemnitius confesseth that (7) Chemnitius examen Concil. Trident. part 1 pag. 89. b. ant med. saith Quadragessi nam enim Ambrose, maximus taurinensis, Theophilus, Hieronimus, & alij affirmant ess● traditionem apostolicam. Ambrose, Maximus, Taurinensis, Theophilus, Hierom, and other do affirm the fast of Lent to be an Apostolical tradition. In more undoubted proof whereof other Protestant writers do not only affirm (8) See this in Abraham Scultetus in medul. theologiae Patrum p. 440. initio. The superstition of Lent & fasting, to have been allowed and commanded by Ignatius (9) Master Whitgifte in his defence etc. pag. 408 circa medium who was scholar to S. john: but do also defend (10) See Abraham Scultetus ubi supra. And the same epistle of Ignasius (being ad Philippenses) is in like manner cited and acknowledged by Mr. Whitgifte in his defence p. 102 ante med. And by mr. Carthwrite alleged ibidem. pag. 99 prope finem. And mr. Hooker in his ecclesiastical policy l. 5. sect. 72 pag. 209 circa med. answereth our adversaries usual objection made against it. and so likewise doth mr. Whitgifte in his defence. etc. that very Epistle of Ignatius, in which this Doctrine is extant, to be his true Epistle and not counterfeit: 12 twelfthly concerning unwritten Traditions and Ceremonies, and first concerning unwritten TRADITIONS it is Confessed as followeth, whereas Sanit. chrysostom saith (2) Chrisost. in 2. Thessaly. hom. 4 the Apostles did not deliver all things by writing, but many things without, and these be as worthy of credit as the other: Mr. Whitaker in answer thereof saith (3) Whittaker de sacra scriptura. p. 678 paulo post med. I answer that thi● is an inconsiderate speech and unworthy so great a father and whereas Epiphanius saith (4) Epiphanius haer. 61 circa med. we must use Tradition for the scriptu●e hath not all things, and therefore the Apostles delivered certain things by writing and certain by Tradition: with whom agreeth S. Basill saying (5) Basil. de Spir. Sanct. cap. 27. some thing we have from scripture other things from the Apostles Tradition etc. both which hath like force unto Christian Religion: Mr. D. rainold answering to these foresaid sayings of Basill and chrysostom, saith (6) D. rainold in his Conclusions annexed to his conference the 1. conclusion. pag. 689. I take not upon me to control them, but let the Church judge if they considered with advice enough: etc. Whereunto might be added the like confessed (7) Where Eusebius l. 1 demonstr. evang. c. 8 is objected to say, that the Apostles published their doctrine: Partly by writing, partly without writing, as it were by a certain unwritten law. Mr. Whittaker de sacra scriptura pag. 668 fine. saith thereto. I answer that this testimony is plain enough, but in no sort to be received, because it is against the Scriptures. testimony, from Eusebius. And thus much briefly concerning the Fathers of the Greek Church. Now as concerning the like confessed Doctrine in the Fathers of the LATIN Church (to avoid tediousness) S. Austin only (as being most (*) Gomarus in speculo verae ecclesiae etc. pag. 96 ante mediu saith: Augustinus Patrum omnium communi sententia purissimus habetur. approved by our adversaries) shall serve for all: who labouring to prove that those who are baptized by heretics should not be Rebaptized, saith (8) Aug. de Bap. contra Don. l. 5. c. 23 the Apostles commanded nothing hereof, but that custom which was opposed herein against Cyprian is to be believed to proceed from their Tradition, as many things be, which the whole Church holdeth, and are therefore well believed to be commanded of the Apostles, although they be not written. Wherein and (9) See the like saying in Austin epist. 118 ad januarium. other his like sayings his meaning is so evident and confessed, that Mr. Carthwright speaking thereof, saith (10) See Mr. Carthwrite in mr. whitgift's defence etc. p. 103 ante med. to allow St. Austin's saying is to bring in Popery again: and that (11) See Mr. Carthwrites words alleged ubi supra. if S. Austin's judgement be a good judgement, than there be some things commanded of God, which are not in the scriptures, and there-upon no sufficient Doctrine contained in the scriptures: Add but now hereunto, that (12) See Chemnitius examen part. 1. pag. 87. 89 90. Chemnitius, reporteth for their like testimony of unwritten Traditions; Clemens Alexandrinus, Origen, Epiphanius, Ambrose, Hierome, Maximus, Theophilus, Basill, Damascene etc. That M. Fulke (13) See mr. Fulke against Purgatory pa. 362 ante med. & 303 & 397 and against martial pag. 170. 178. and against bristol motives p. 35 & 36. also confesseth as much of Chrisostom●, Tertulian, Cyprian, Augustine, Hierome, etc. that lastly, Mr. Whitaker (14) See master Whitaker de sacra scriptura pag. 678. 681. 683. 685. 690. 695. 696. 670 668. acknowledgeth the like of chrysostom, Epiphanius, Tertulian, Cyprian, Augustine, Innocentius, Leo, Basill, Eusebius, Damascene, etc. Now as concerning Ceremonies Mr. Calfehill (to omit others) affirmeth that (15) Hereof see Mr. Fulkes rejoinder to Marshal's Reply printed 1580. pa. 131 fine & 132 initio. the Fathers declined all from the simplicity of the Gospel in ceremonies. 13 Thirtenthly it is confessed yet further in general concerning Dionysius Artopagitta and Hermes, who are holden most ancient & apostolic, (¶) Of Dionysius mention is made act. 17, 34. and of Hermes rom. 16, 14. namely that Dionysius in his foresaid writings which were above a thousand years since (as D. Humphrey (⁋) Humfreid. in jesuitismi part. 2. rat. 5 pag. 513 fine & 514 initio. saith: Hunc Arcopagitam, Suidas, Michael Singelus, Gregorius Turonensis, & alij Pauli auditorem credunt fuisse illum scriptorem caelestis et ecclesiasticae Hierarchiae: And see before Sect 3. n. 4. lit. o confesseth) publicly extant and alleged under his name, doth (casually and obiter among other things) make mention over and besides the foresaid Doctrine of prayer for the dead, (t) Hamelmanus de traditionibus apostolicis col. 707 line 27 & col. 736 line 56 and master Whitaker de sacra scriptura pag. 655 ante med. of Apostolic unwritten Traditions: of (u) Hamelmanus ubi supra col. 707. l. 4 & col. 732 l. 51 Chrism (x) Hamelmanus ubi supra col. 707. l. 49 & col. 743 l. 4 Consecration of Monks. & (y) Humfreid. in jesuitismi par 2 pag. 519 circamed ●nd Luther tom. 2 Witeberg. Anno 1562 de captiu. Babil. fol. 84. b. ant med. Six of our Sacraments that the book of Hermes entitled Pastor affordeth in like manner testimony or ground work of (z) Abraham Scultetus in medulla theolog. etc. pag. 467 post med. free-will and monastical solitude of (a) Hamelmanus de trad. apost. col. 252 fine & col. 253 initio. & col. 254 line 38 and Abraham Scultetus ubi supra pag. 467 post med. Purgatory, and prayer for the dead: of (b) Hamelmanus ubi supra col. 253 l. 54 & col. 254 l. 49 Merit and justification of works: of Professed Chastity (c) Hamelmanus ubi supra col. 251 line 48 & col. 254 l. 30 in ministers of (d) Hamelmanus ubi supra col. 254 l. 36 Fasting from certain meats: of (e) ibidem col. 253 line 46 the Innocent parties remainnig unmarried in case of adultery: of (f) Chemnitius examen council. Trident. part. pag. 127 a prope finem works of supererogation: and of (g) Hamelmanus ubi supra col. 254 l. 53 saith. Furtigitur bonum papismi initium impurus ille liber pastoris, vel Heremitis. Popery: And though in the primitive Church some question (h) Vide Eusebium hist. l. 3 ●. 3 prope finem was made of this book, as whether it were Canonical scripture or not, (many Father's (i) It was thought to be sacred, and for such alleged by Origen lib. 10 in epist. ad Rom. Tertulian l. de oratione. Clemens Alex. l. 6 stromat. Athanasius in libro de decretis Nicen Synod. Cassianus collat. 13. c. 12 and by Ireneus l. 4 c. 37. thinking that it was) yet is it confessed to have been received at the least for (k) Hamelmanus ubi supra col. 254 line 24 saith. illum pro ecclesiastico habuerunt quidem Patr●s: and col. 730 line 25 he saith Hermetis libellus qui dicitur Pastor, est olim aliquando in numerum ecclesiasticorum librorum relatus: In so much as Eusebius hist. l. 3 c. 3. Ruffinus in Simbolum & Hierom. in catul. do commend this book for profitable, and so Mr. Whitaker de sacra scriptura p. 93 fine confesseth of Hierome. Ecclesiastical, and the authority thereof to have been so many ages since specially alleged (l) Hamelmanus ubi supra col. 253 line 10 saith: Liber pastoris videtur receptus esse ab Ireneo & Clement. And col. 255 line 42 he saith: Ostendit Eusebius a quibusdam librum pastoris receptum esse, & imprimis ab Ireneo sic & Origines l. 1 de Principijs c. 3 citat quaedam ex libro pastoris eiusque libri lectionem commendat: ho: 13 in Ezech: by Origen, Clement, and Ireneus, who lived next to those Apostles times. 14 Fourthtenthly whereas the Lord archbishop of Canterbury doth against Carthwright learnedly and truly urge this general rule or proof of Apostolic Doctrine, saying (m) Mr. Whitgiste in his defence: etc. pag: 351 for so much as the original & beginning of these names, Metropolitaine, Archbishop etc. such is their antiquity, cannot be found so far as I have read it is to be supposed they have their Original from the Apostles themselves. For as I remember S. Austin hath this rule in his 118 Epistle. In somuch as he yet further saith in proof of this rule (n) Mr. Whitgifte ubi supra pag: 352 it is of credit with the writers of our time, namely with Mr. Suinglius Mr. calvin, & Mr. Gualther, and surely I think no learned man doth dissent from them: It is now by the premises made more than evident that the several Doctrines of our faith, are according to this rule, no less fr●e from all noted and known beginning since the Apostles times, then are the other foresaid Doctrines of Metropolitaines' and bishops: a thing so manifest that Master. Carthwright though our great adversary) doubteth not yet further to acknowledge the same, saying therefore of this very rule in plain words, (o) See Mr: Carthwrite his words in Mr. Whitgiftes foresaid defence etc. pag: 352 initio: that thereby a window is open to bring in all Popery: And (p) Master Carthwright alleged ibidem pag: 103 paulo ante medium. I appeal (saith he) to the judgement of all men, if this be not to bring in Popery again, to allow of S. Austin's saying: &. So evidently do our own learned adversaries, confirm and prove our foresaid Catholic Religion, whereto we were so many ages since converted, to be undoubtedly Apostolic. ANOTHER LIKE DEMONSTRATION thereof by Testimony from the Ancient jews. §. 4. ADD but now in further demonstration hereof that concerning such Articles of faith now in question as are common to us with the Fathers of the old Testament whensoever upon any occasion, direct mention is made of any of them either by those that were before Christ's time, or by the jewish Rabines since, it is still with us and against our adversaries. So in the example of prayer for the dead, admitting the book of Maccabees but for a true History, it may not be denied but that long before Christ's time, judas Machabeus (the undoubted servant of god (q) 2. Machab. 2, 43 procured sacrifice for the dead: that the Priests at Jerusalem accordingly offered (r) 2 Machab. 2, 45 So he made a reconciliation for the dead that they might be delivered from sin. it, and that the Author of the History so many years after commended (s) 2. Machab. 2, 45. It was a holy & good thought, & vide ibidem: verse: 43 the same. Whereunto might be added further like Testimony thereof, from josephus (t) joseph cap: 9 dissuadeth those distressed soldiers that were ready to kill themselves saying: ignoro milites quae sit propitiatio animae hominis qui seipsum interfecit: quis intercedet pro nobis ad Deum si sic peccaverimus? most plainly thereby insinuating that for such as die in better estate, Prayer may be made. Bengorion, also from Rabbi Simeon (u) Rabbi simeon in libro Zoar. in c. 18 Genesis, saith of such as are temporally punished after this life. After they are purged from the filth of their sins, then doth God cause them to ascend out of that place. (who lived before Christ) & from sundry other old jewish (x) Menachim siam in Comment. ad levit. c 16 and R. Hismi. Alphesi● scholiastes ad caput Roch: Haschana. And R. Isaac. Ababab. in Lucerna lucis conclusione. 1. part. 2. c. 2. & R. David. Kimhi in Psalm:: 32. Rabbins. In so much as the jewish Rabbins of latter age do thereupon yet to this day professefull to retain and observe (y) Rabbi Moses in his simbolum fidei judeorum printed at Paris Anno 1569. fol. 26. b & 27 a & 22 b expr●ss●th a prescript form of prayer for the dead. like testimony thereof is given by joannes Isaac in institutionibus linguae haebricae impressis Coloniae. 1553 And by Antonius Margarita: (a late converted jew) in his book entitled universi judaeorum fides: Prayer for the dead: a thing not denied but plainly confessed by Mr. (*) Whitaker contra Dureum lib. 1 pag. 85 antemed. saith: Scio enim judae is esse libros memoriales quos in Sinagogis suis legunt, eosque nunc precibus quibusdam pro mortuis uti solere non ignoro. Whitaker. 2 secondly concerning Limbus Patrum the book entitled Ecclesiasticus, though we should for the time suppose it not to be Canonical Scripture, yet was it Collected or penned before Christ's time, and by such an Author as then before (z) In the prologue of the book of ecclesiasticus ante med. had given himself to the reading of the Law and the Prophets and other books of their Fathers and had gotten therein sufficient knowledge. In this book is our saviours descending in to that place specially foretell us where it is said in his person: (a) Ecclesiasticus 24, 37. I will pierce through the lower parts of the earth, I will look upon all such as be a sleep, and will lighten all them that trust in the Lord: a saying so direct (*) This piercing thing the lower parts of the earth to lighten those that were there a sleep and trusted in the Lord argueth plainly that those faithful so a sleep (or dead) were not then in Heaven: for by the lower parts of the e●●th cannot be meant heaven. and pertinent that Master WHITAKER seeketh to evade by these two only ways, as first in answering that (b) Whitaker contra Dureum l. 8 pag. 567 postmed. these words are wanting in the Greek Copy: Se●ondly (this being notoriously false (c) ●alse for the English Bible (to omit others) of Anno 1576 purporting by the title on the first page thereof to be translated according to the H●brue and Greek hath these words translated accordingly. he finally and only reposeth himself in answering that (d) Whitaker contra Dureum l. 8 pag. 567 post med. saith, Nec libri huius authoritatem canonicam agnosco, his fundamentis limbum immixum revera est necesse. the book is not Canonical and so acknowledging the plain meaning of the words, rejecteth their authority: So evidently doth this author make with the Doctrine of Limbus Patrum. In like manner Rabbenu● Haccados who lived before Christ, saith in the person of the Messias (e) Rabbenus Haccados libro qui inscribitur: Revelator Arcanorum. I have decreed to descend into Hell to redeem the souls of the just which my Father did thrust there in the rod of ● s indignation, for Adam's sin: and the same doctrine is more plainly as yet affirmed by Rabbi (f) Rabbi simeon filius Iohai apud Rabbenum Heccadoes foretelleth of the Messias saying: Tunc anima eius discendet ad inferos, apud quos triduo morabitur, ut inde omnes animas Patrum iustorumque educat. etc. juxta illud Hoseae 6. visitabit nos post duos dies, in die tertia suscitabit nos, & vivemus ante faciem eius. simeon (who lived before Christ's coming) and by other (*) See these more at large alleged by Petrus Galatinus de arcanis Catholicae veritatis l. 6 c. 9 & 10. See them also alleged by Peter Martyr in his common places part. 3. cap. 16 sect 13 pag. 377 a. fine & b. jewish Rabbins, and it is further more so agreeable with the writings of the (2) It is said that the law brought nothing to perfection but was only an introduction of a better hope: hebr. 7, 19) that therefore the way of holies was not open whiles the sister Tabernacle was standing. hebr. 9, 8 the same way being therefore called the new way which Christ dedicated (hebr. 10, 20.) that the Fathers of the old testament are said to die according to faith not receiving the promise. hebr. 11, 13. God providing a better thing for us, that they with out us should not be made perfect. ibidem verse vlt. that accordingly the souls of sundry persons dead before our saviours Ascension, as of Lazarus: joan. 11, 43, 44. the made Luc 8, 55. and of those many bodies of the Saints that rose and appeared to many. Matthew 27, 52, 53. did not return from the eternal and unchangeable joys of heaven, but from that other place which is called Abraham's bosom (Luc. 16, 22 the which was not heaven, as is testified by Peter Martyr in his common places part. 2 pag. 621. a & part. 3. pag. 378. b & 379 a. initio: that (lastly) our Saviour in regard of his delivery of the old patriarchs & just men from this place at the time of his ascension, is accordingly said to Ascend on high leading captivity captive: (Ephes. 4, 8.) new Testament, that the ancient (3) See heretofore sect 3. subdivision 4. Fathers and sundry learned (4) See hereafter tract. 3. sect. 7 in the margin under the letter m example 17 pag. 174 fine: and see Peter Martyr ubi supra. Protestants do therefore allow of it. 3 Thirdly as concerning free-will it is said in the foresaid book of Ecclesiasticus not only of Adam who was then dead, and his sin past, but by way of admonition to the men of that time, and against their sins then to come: (5) Ecclesiasticus 15, 12, 15, 16, 17. say not thou he hath caused me to err, if thou wilt, thou shalt observe the Commandments, h● hath set water and fire before thee, stretch out thy hand to which thou wilt. Before man is life and death, good and evil, what liketh him, shall be given him, a saying so plain, that Mr. Whitaker therefore saith thereof de loco Ecclesiastici Patrum, laboro etc. (6) Whitaker in respons. ad rationes Campiani rat. 1. pag. 15 ante med. I make small account of the place of Ecclesiasticus, neither will I believe the freedom of man's will although he should affirm a hundredth times, that before man were life and death: and aun●ient Philo who lived in Christ's time, affirmeth in like manner that (7) Philo. in libro quod Deus sit immutabilis. man hath free-will etc. to which purpose (saith he) is extant the Oracle in deuteronomy, I have placed before the l●fe and death, good and evil, choose life: whereunto might be added no less plain sayings of the other old jewishe (g) Rabbi Moses filius Maimon in epistola adversus astrologos, saith: Ac illud quidem intelligere debetis, praecipuum ac principale ex fundamentis legis nostrae omnesque item Philosophos apart confiteri, quecunque ab ipsis hominibus fiunt, ea in ipsorum manu esse ac potestate etc. Si velit homo seruit Domino etc. sin placet adire concilia impiorum, & illud quoque facit: And see the other no less plain sayings of Rabbi Moses Hadarsan in cap. 4. Gen. and also of Rabbi Abba and Rabbi Selomo, alleged by Petrrus Galatinus de arcanis Catholicae veritatis: Printed Francofuf. 1602. l. 6 c. 6. colum. 339. f. & 340. b. c. Rabbins, and the answerable (h) Mr. Fulke in his defence of the English translations etc. p. 320 initio, saith: The jewish Rabbins Patrons of free-will, do err etc. And whereas Rabbi Akiba in capitulis Patrum, saith: Et potestas data est & in bono mundus judicatur Paulus Fagius in hunc locum saith: Haebrei hanc sententiam sic explicant etc. ut cuivis homini potestas tradita sit vel bene vel male agendi. And again. Apotheca aperta est etc. Hoc referunt ad liberum arbitrium videlicet in nobis situm, ut vel male vel bene agamus, Deum nobis mortem aut vitam pro ponere. confession in that be half of Mr. D. Fulke and Paulus Fagius. 4 Fourthly as concerning God's induration or hardening of Pharos heart: the jewish Rabbins are so plain in affirming with us the same to be by God's Permission, and not by his working (which exposition (i) Calum institut. l. 2. c. 4 sect. 3. in●●o calvin disliketh in the ancient Fathers) that Peter Martyr (k) Peter Martyr in epist. ad Rom. c. 9 and Munster (l) M●nster: Annot. in Exod. c. 7 do accordingly acknowledge this their aforesaid exposition. 5 Fiftly as concerning Angels and Saints, the book of Toby written so many ages before Christ, is so (l) Toby. 5, 5.12, 12.13, 15.18. plain with us concerning the patronage and intercession of Angels, that Mr. Whitaker doth therefore accordingly confess and say thereof, (m) Whittaker in respons. ad rationes. Campiani rat. 1. pag. 15. ante medi. illum vero Tobiae Raphaelem etc. Little do we regard the example of Raphaell the Angel mentioned in Toby. Ne●ther do we acknowledge those (*) Of the like number of seven Angels which Mr. Whitaker so misliketh: see revelat. 1, 4. & 5, 6. seven Ang●l● whereof he speaketh, all this is different from the Canonical Scriptures, and savoureth I know not of what superstition: In like manner doth the book of Maccabees make mention how that judas Mach●beus (n) 2. Machab. 15, 12, 13, 14. saw in vision Onias the high priest (who was then before slain) (o) See 2. Machab. 3, 33 & 4, 34 holding up his hands towards heaven and praying for the People, after which there appeared to him an other man who was ag●d etc. And Onias spoke and said, this is a lover of the Brethren who Prayeth much for the People, and for the whole City, (to wit) jeremias the Prophet of God: A place so direct for the intercession of Saints, that Mr. Whitaker doth therefore contemn it (p) Whitaker in respons. ad rationes Campiani pag. 16. circa medium, saith: Illud judae de Oum somnium quod. 2. Machabe. 15. legimus, ut somnium pretermitto, sed parum refert mortuorum sive intercessionem sive sacrificium intelligas, utrumque tuum est, utrumque est falsum. And it is to be observed f●rther as very probable, that the jews present at our saviours Death, could not have been so easesly persuaded to think & say that our Saviour saying (q) Mat. 27, 46, 47, 49. & Marc. 15, 34, 35, 36. Eli Eli Lammasabacthani, called He ias: If the invocation of saints had not been as then familiar and usual to them: which their opinion appeareth yet more evidently, aswell by further testimony of the ancient (r) See Flavius josephus de Bello judaico l. 3. c. 14 where it is said: Purae animae quae exaudiunt invocantes, retinent locum in coelo adeptae sanctissi num: And josephus Bengorion in Bello judaico. cap. 21 where it is said: Exurge nunc Moises fili Amram & vide populum tuum. exurge nunc Aaron etc. and R. Abr ham in Gen. 22: saith of the jews. Isaac interponere solent interse & Deum in suis precibus quasi intercessorem. jews, as also of those other Rabbins of latter (s) Concerning the like practice of the latter jews, see simbolum fidei judaeorum impress. Prarisijs 1569. fol. 22. b & 28. b And in their office of the dead, (where it is said) Angeli pacis egredimini in occur●um defuncti, portas Paradisi voluptatis reserate illi: & in libro precationum judaicarum it is said: Angeli misericordes ministri Dei altissimi placate quaeso faciem Dei optima deprecatione etc. times. 6 Sixtly concerning the unwritten Traditions of the jews. (t) Origen hom. 5 in number. & in ep ad Rom. c. 3. Origen and Hillary (u) Hilary in Psal. 2. saith: Erat iam a Mose antea institutum in omni Synagoga septuaginta esse Doctores: nam idem Moyses quamuis veteris Testamenti verba in literis condidisset, tamen separatum quaedam ex occultis legis secretiora misteria septuaginta senioribus, qui Doctores deinceps manerent, intimaverat. etc. doctrina ergo horum in posterum, quae ab ipso scriptore legis accepta, in hoc seniorum & numero, & officio conseruata est. do affirm that Moses left many things unwritten, the knowledge whereof was continued by Tradition, which his unwritten Traditions: the book of Esdras doth not obscurely signify, as where it is said in the person of God, touching Moses (x) 4. Esdras. 14, 4, 6, 26. I brought him to the mount Sinai, I did detain him with me many days etc. I commanded him saying th' s● words thou shalt make known, & these keep secret. And Egesippus mentioneth in like manner (as Mr. Hanmer Translateth Eusebius (y) Egesippus apud Eusebium hist. l. 4 c. 21 fine. the unwritten Traditions of the jews. To which their unwritten Traditions that most ancient Author Anatolius (z) Anatolius apud Eusebium hist. l. 7. c. 26 giveth also further Testimony, & the ancient jews do affirm of their unwritten Law, that (a) In capitulis Patrum. Moses receau●d it vp●n Mount Sinai and delivered it to josua, & josua to the Elders etc. which saying as Rabbi judas affirmeth (b) R. judas in hunc locum. concerneth the order of Tradition delivered by word of mouth: a thing not denied but confessed by (c) Paulus Fagius in hunc locum saith: Tenet enim Iudeoru opinio, Mosen duplicem legem a Domino in monte Sinai accepisse, all teram quam legem inscripto sive scripto traditam vocant, alteram quam legem quae in ore est sive ore traditam nominant atque hanc postremam succedanto quodam ordine per Mosen ad posteros derinatam affirmant. Paulus Fagius. 7 Seventhly concerning the force or merit of Alms, and other good works, proceeding from true faith in the Mesias the Doctrine of the ancient Jews is delivered in the book of Toby, where it is said: (d) Toby 12, 9 after the translation of the English Bible of 1576. & according to the greek copy published by the divines of Basill 1550: the which I do more precisely note, for that Mr. Fulke against the Rhemish Testament fol. 109 a. circa med. denieth the latter part of this text to be in the greek. Alms doth del●uer from death, & doth purge all sin: and again (e) Toby. 4, 10. Alms doth deliver from death. & suffereth not (the soul) to go into darkness: and in the foresaid book of Ecclesiasticus (f) Ecclesiasticus. 3, 33. water quencheth burning fire and Alms expiateth (or purgeth) sin: and this is but agreeable with the other Scriptures acknowledged for Canonical, as where it is said (g) Daniel 4, 24. Whereas our adversaries do here instead of Redeem translate break of. Hemnigeus in his exposition of the 84 psal. Englished pag. 527. thinketh that the haebru word signifieth to Redeem: so also most clearly in the grenke translation doth the greek word and so likewise doth the vulgar interpreter, & the ancient Father's read accordingly, in so much as the same reading is observed likewise by Luther in loc. common. class. 1. pag. 72. ante medium: and by Peter Martyr in his common places in English: part. 3. cap. 4. pag. 114. b. circa med. by Melancthon in loc. con●un. edit. 1536. cap. de bonis op●ribus pag. 157 in fine: by the Apology of the Confession of Augus●a fol. 104. a circa med. And by the Tigurine translation of 1544 whereunto might be added the like reading and judgement of calvin, Aretius, Bullenger and many other Protestants. redeem thy sin with alms, and thy iniquities with mercy to the poor: (h) Proverb. 16, 6. By mercy and truth sin sha●l be forg●uen (i) Proverb. 15, 27. although this be omitted in the English Bible of 1576 yet is it so evidently parcel of the text that (to omit the Fathers) the Divines of B●sill in their edition hereof in Greek and Latin printed. 1550. do read it accordingly. By alms and saith sins are purged: (k) Luc. 11, 41. Give alms and behold all thing are clean to you. 8 Eightly concerning Monastical ●ife that it was not altogether wanting, but in some sort professed among the ancient jews, josephus testi●●eth saying (l) josephus antiquit●tum: judaicarum. l. 18. cap. 2. the righteousness of the essenes is marvelous: etc. they enjoy their riches in Common: etc. And in this course above. 4. thousand men do live, having neither wives nor servants: etc. And else where it is affirmed of them that (m) josephus de Bello judaico l. 2. c. 7. they are jews by nation, and do obs rue continency, avoid Marriage, are contemners of riches (and) enjoy things in common, none being richer than other: And that before any be admitted amongst them (n) Ibidem. Trial is had of his Continency, and his other manners are for two years proved, and then he is taken into the Company. And Philo also who lived in the Apostles times, maketh mention of those who then (o) Philo de vita contemplative. forsaking their goods did dwell without the walls loving solitariness: he also maketh like mention of (p) Philo, ibidem. their Monasteries, where being solitary, they studied the Mysteries of holy life, and of (*) See Philo his words apud Eusebium hist. l. 2. c. 16. post med where it is said of them, quidam po●ro etc. vix semel toto triduo cibi recordantur: (& again) nonnulli illec ebris sapientiae etc. sic oblectantur etc. ut duplo plus temporis inedi●m facile sustineant & vix tantum sex diebus expletis alimentum necessarium degustent: their (wonderful great) fasting from meat: Which foresaid professors of monastical life thus mentioned by Philo, are by the century (q) Centur. 1. l. 2. c. 3. col. 18. line 33. writers, and D. Rainolds (r) D. rainold in his Conference pag. 488. prope finem. (for their lesser (s) To their lesser disadvantage, lest other wise being taken for Christian professors (as they are by Eusebius hist. l. 2. c. 16. and by Hierom de scriptor. Eccle. verbo Philo) it should argue monastical profession to be apostolic. disadvantage) acknowledged to be jewish. 9 Ninthly concerning Vows: it is said in the writings of the old Testament. (2) Psal. 76, 11. Vow ye, and render your vows unto God: (3) Numeri. 30, 3. whosoever voweth a vow unto the Lord, etc. He shall not break his promise, but shall do according to all which proceedeth from his mouh. (4) Deutro. 23, 21. when thou shalt vow a vow unto the Lord thy God, thou shalt not be slack to pay it, for the Lord thy God will surely require it of thee: (5) Ecclesiastes 5, 3, When thou hast vowed a vow unto God defer not to pay it: etc.: It is better that thou shouldest not vow then that thou shouldest vow and not pay it: Whereunto might be added sundry other (6) Psal. 22, 25. & psal. 50, 14. & Esay. 19, 21. like Testimonies from the writings of the old Testament. We are not ignorant how that Peter Martyr, Mr. D. Fulke, and others seek to evade in answering thereto, that (7) Peter Martyr de caelibatu & votis pag. 302. fine & 303. and ibidem pag. 304. post med. He further saith. Votum ego caeremoniale antiquae legis praeceptum fuisse affirmo. And Mr. Fulke. answering to psal. 76, 11. saith That text pertaineth to the old Testament in his retentive against bristol Moives. etc. pag. 153. fine. And Bullinger in his decades in English, pag. 380. ante med. saith vows belong to the jewsh Ceremonies. v●wes were Ceremonies of the old Testament: etc. Abolished by Christ's coming But is not the contrary many ways evident? as .1. First in that vows were made before Moses' time, as is to be seen in the example of (8) Gen. 28, 20● Then jacob vowed a vow saying, etc. Iac●●s uewe. 12. Se●ond●y by the heretofore (9) See heretofore. tract. 1. sect. 3. initio. confessed Doctrine of the most ancient Fathers, teaching vows. 3. Thirdly, (to omit the sundry other proofs that might be alleged from the new Testament) by the evident confession of sundry learned (10) Mr. Perkens in his reform Catholic, pag. 155. post, med. saith. And now in the new testament we have warrant in like manner to vow etc. of this kind are the vows to keep set times of fasting etc. And see the the like lawfulness of Christian vows. further affirmed by Musculus in loc. common. de votis. p. 524. circa med. And by Mr. Willet in his Sinopsis. pa. 241. post med. And by Amandus Pol●nus in partitionihus theolog. l. 2. pag. 394. and Danaeus in primae partis altera part contra Bellarminum pag. 987. affirmeth it, fas esse Christianis Hominibus vovere quae cum dei voluntate consentiunt: Protestants who a knowledge the lawfulness of Christian vows: in so much as Mr. Hooker acknowledgeth (11) Mr. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical policy. l. 2. pag. 103. paulo post med. Ananias his solemn vow unto God, which strictly bound him to the giving of his possessions to the Church's vs●, (though yet Mr. Fulke and Mr. Willet will not (12) Mr. Willet in his Sinopsis pag. 245. ante med. saith We do not read that ANANIAS made any Vow etc. And Mr. Fulke against the Remish Testament: in act. 5. fol. 191. a. propped finem. affirmeth the like. in any case acknowledge Ananias to have vo●ed) and Augustine Marloret acknowledgeth in like manner how that (13) And so doth Peter Martyr de caelibatu & votis pag. 323. initio. Marloret in. 1. Tim. cap. 5. vers. 11. pag. 375. a fine: the widows) mentioned by S. Paul,) did give their faith to Christ the spouse, and to the Church, willingly barring them s●lues from Marriage: with whom herein do agree, sundry other (14) The Protestant author of the book entitled Antichristus sive Prognostica finis mundi. pa. 148. fine. & 149. saith quoth Lutherus hanc primam fidem de fide iustificante intelligit & non de fide pudicitiae, id plane coactum est etc. loquitur apostolus de fide seu voto officij etc. quia autem Paulus vitio vertit quod nubere postea volverint, clarissi num est hanc conditionem in voto intercessisse etc. And Mr. R. Alison in his confutation of Brownism. pag. 71. affirmeth likewise of these widows, that before God and his Church they had vowed not to marry: And thus (saith he) is this place expounded, by Bullenger, Claudius, Guiniam and others. Protestant writers affirming the vowed Chastity of the said widows. 10 Tenthly as concerning our con●ession of sins Petrus (t) Galatinus de arcanis Catholicae veritatis l. 10. cap. 3. Galatinus giveth examples of several testimonies (v) In libro Sanhedrin Hierosolomitano in capite quod nigmar haddin id est definitum est judicium it is said. Omnis confitens habet partem in seculo futuro sic enim in Achan reperimus quod dixit ei Ieho●uas, fil●m●da obsecro honorem Domino Deo Israel, & da confessionem, & indica mihi quaeso quid feceris nec celes a me etc. And in libro Ioma id est dierum in capite tom ●a●●ppurim id est dies propitiationum. It is said, dixit R. Hurma omnis qui transgressione transgressus est, necesse est ut singulatim exprimat peccatum. etc. in the ancient jews, and like further testimony or prefiguration thereof is not wanting in Leviticus for whereas several sacrifices are there appointed for several sins, as for (x) levit. 4, 2, 3. etc. sin through ignorance, and other (y) levit. 5, 1, 4, 17. & 6, 1, 5. & numeri 5, 7. particular offences, for which (z) levit. 4, 3. the Priest was appointed to offer and make (a) levit. 4, 20. & 5, 6, 13. & 6, 7. atonement, how could the Priest here offer those sundry sacrifices appointed severally according to the diversity of SINS, unless the party so offending confessed the same sins to him; which to have been so, is yet furthermore probable, in that it was there also appointed and said (b) levit. 5, 6. and number 5, 7. when he hath sinned in any of th●s● things, then h●e sha●l confess that he hath sinned therein & ●: And the Priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin. 11 eleventhly as concerning Melchisadeches offering of B●ead and Wine in sacrifice (which our adversaries (*) Master Fulke against the Remish Testament in haebr. 7. sect. 8. fol. 406. a. initio saith Melchisadeches Bread and Wine pertended not to his Priestly office neither did he offer it to God. And Mr. Willet in his Sinopsis. pa. 478 ante med. & versus finem affirmeth the like; And Mr. Whitakes in his answer to Mr. Rainolds etc. pa. 67. saith, Melchisade●he did not by any thing wherein he so sacrificed, prefigure the sacrifice & Priesthood of Christ: deny) and the prefiguration thereby, of our now sacrifice of the new Testament. Rabbi Samuel saith (c) Rabbi Samuel in Bereschit Rabath ad cap. 14. Genes. Melchisadech set forth the acts of priesthood, for he sacrificed Bread and Wine, to the holy and Blessed God. Rabbi Phinces saith, (d) Rabbi Phinces ibidem in cap. 28. number. In the time of the Messias all sacrifices shall cease, but the sacrifice of Bread and Wine shall not cease etc. as it is said Psal. 110. thou art a Priest forever according to the order of M●lchisdech. Rabbi Moses Hadarsan saith of Melchisadech, (e) Rabbi Moses Hadarsan in Bereschit Rabath ad cap. 14. Genes. bringing forth bread & wine, showeth that he taught the act of Priesthood, which was to sacrifice Bread and Wine, and this is that which is read in the Psalms etc. thou art a Priest for ever according to the order of Melchisadich: This point is so evident in the old jewish Rabbins: that Theodorus (f) The●dorus Bibliander de SS. Trinitate l. 2. pag. 89. saith, erat apud veteres haebraeos dogma receptissimum in adventu Messiae Benedicti, cessatura esse omnia legalia sacrificia, tantumque celebrandum sacrificium thoda gratiarum actionis etc. & illud peragendum pane et vino sicut Melchisadech Rex Salem & sacerdos etc. panem et vinum protulit Bibliander (a Protestant writer) doubteth not accordingly to confess the same. 12 twelfthly as concerning their further opinion of the Church's sacrifice upon the coming of the Messias: our now sacrifice is therein so plainly signified and affirmed by the ancient Jews who lived before Christ's time, that (as Galatinus saith of one of them) (g) Galatinus de Arcanus Catholicae veritatis l. 1. cap. 3. circa med. they may be thought not so much to have foretell things to come, as to have reported evangelist-like things already done: To this end saith Rabbi Cahana (h) Rabbi Cahana ad c. 49. genes. vers. 11. the sacrifice which shallbe offered of Wine, shall not only be changed into the substance of the Blood of the Messias, but also into the substance of his Body: the sacrifice which shallbe of Bread notwithstanding that it be whit as milk, it shall be converted into the substance of the Body of the M●ssias. In like manner Rabbi Iudaes saith (i) R. judas in 25. exod. the bread shall be changed when it shall be sacrificed from the substance of bread into the substance of the Body of the Messias, which shall descend from Heaven, and he himself shall be the sacrifice etc. R●bby simeon saith (k) R. simeon filius Iohn libro qui inscribitur reu●latio secretorum. The sacrifice which after the Messias his coming Priests shall make etc.: they shall make it of Bread and Wine etc. and that sacrifice which shall b● s● celebrated upon every Altar, shall be turned into the Body of the Mssias: Rabbi Barachias teacheth that at the coming of the (l) R. Barachias in ecclesiasten. M●ssias, food shall come from Heaven like a little Cake. Thus did these religious and ancient Jews who lived before CHRIST'S coming, foretell and write (by special instinct) concerning our Church's Blessed Sacrifice: whereto might be added sundry of their other no less plain testimonies (m) Rabbi jonathas in libro collectionum in psal. 72. saith ille est M●ssi●s de quo loquitur totus psalmus, cum ergo ait, et erit placenta frumenti in terra in capite montium, vult dicere quod placenta panis fiet sacrificium in capitibus sacerdotum qui sunt in ecclesia. And Rabbi Moses Hadarsan in psal. 136. saith, Gustate & videte quomam bonus est deus, quia panis quem dat omnibus, ipse est caro eius, et dum gustatur panis, convertitur in carnem etc. ●he whi●h together with these are collected specially by Petrus (n) See these foresaid testimonies and sundry other like alleged from the Rabbins by Petrus Galatinus de Arcanis Catholicae veritatis. l. 10. ca 5. 6. & 7. Galatinus, and by Mr. Whitaker (o) For whereas Duraeus urgeth this collection made by Galatinus of the Hebrues foresaid so plain sayings concerning Real Presence & Sacrifice. Mr. Whitaker answering thereunto (l. 9 co●tra Duraeum pag. 818 circa med.) Neither confesseth nor yet denieth but shufleth them of, saying only thereto. Tuum in hac causa petrum Galatinun minime profecto desideramus, nec H●braeorum Testimonijs illis indigamus. And is this a direct & sufficient answer, to so many plain sayings of the old Hebrues that lived before Christ, so evidently foreshowing & affirming the Real Presence & sacrifice of Christ's Blessed Body in the holy Sacrament? rather shuffled of then answered,) wherein they do no less plainly foreshow the truth of Christ's Body Really present and offered in the Blessed Sacrament, then d d the Heathen Sibills in like manner foretell the truth of his incarnation. And for so much as (*) Esaye 41, 23. God only knoweth things to come. The Devil not being able to foretell things s●mplie future, but only such other future effects as depend upon their secondary causes then already past or present, in which causes, he (of his great skill and experience) foreseeth the coming of the said effects, to which kind, the foresaid Doctrines of Re ll Presence and Sacrifice, cannot in any so●te be reduced, by reason they cannot be said to h●ue been then depending upon any natural or other cause, then past or in being, save only the immediate & sacred will of God. This therefore so plain foresaid prediction m●de by the ancient Rabbins before Christ's t●me, in behalf of Real Presence and Sacrifice, demonstrating itself so evidently to have proceeded not from any secondary cause but only from a divine instinct, yieldeth thereby a most strong argument in behalf of the said Doctrines. 13 Thirtenthly and lastly (to omit other points) as concerning the final ending of controversies, not only scripture, but a certain visible and lively judge upon earth was appointed and acknowledged. To omit all other proof thereof, the Law of deuteronomy was that when there did (⁋) Deutron. 17, 8, 9, 11. arise any matter to hard for the (people) in judgement: they were appointed to go up to the place which God had ch●sen, and to come to the levitical Priest, and to the judge in those days: and to ask of them the sentence of judgement, and to do according to ●he judgement which they did tell, not declining neither to the r●g●t hand nor to the left, it being yet further said of him that did (*) Deutron. 17, 12. presumptuously refuse to obey the commandment of the Priest, tha● by the decree of ●he judge that man should di●: Now that the sentence grounded upon this Law, was not subject to new question under colour of appealing to the scriptures but was definitive and final, and concerned aswell Ecclesiastical as Civil Causes is in it self plain, and for such (p) Doct. Rainolds in his conference pa. 251. circa med. saith, The law of deuteronomy was made to establish a highest Court of judgement, in which all harder causes Ecclesiastical & Civil should be determined without appeal further: and Mr. Whitaker de sacra scriptura p. 466. prope finem. saith: Respondeo verba ista intelligenda esse etc. de authoritate tantum definiendi difficiles lites ac controversias, sive ecclesiasticas, illas quidem per ministrum, sive politicas et foreses per magistratum, ut esset semper in utrisque aliquis, a quo provocare non liceat alioqum enim nullus esset litigandi finis: & vide ibidem pag. 470. paulo post med. And Mr. Bil●on in his perpetual government of Christ's Church. pag. 20. post med. saith, hereof that the same did conscerne such matters as were of greatest moment both Civil and sacred, and their sentence by God's law no man might refuse without punishment of death: And see the like assertion in Mr. Hooker in his preface before his books of ecclesiastical policy pa. 26. fine. & 27. & 28. fine. confessed by Mr. D. Rainolds, Mr. D. Whitaker, Mr. D. Bilson, and Mr. Hooker whereupon it is evident that not only scripture (which they of the old Testament had as well as we now have) but besides that a certain visible judge, was then appointed to determine controversies. And for so much as the occasion to have controversies ended, is as great now as during the old Testament, the doubts of religion being as now many more and the danger of error no less grievous: whether therefore may it be thought that our (q) Haeor. 8, 6. Testament which is established in better promises is wanting of this privilege? and so thereby the Ecclesiastical policy of Moses' time, to be preferred herein before that other which succeeded by Christ? With which only last reason the Puritans doubt not to (r) Penrie in his supplication to the high Court of Parliament. p. 21. fine. saith That form of government which maketh our Saviour Christ Inferior unto Moses is an impious, ungodly & unlawful government contrary to the word etc. See him further p. 22. & 23. & peruse the occasion and circumstance of this his reason, and it will appear to hold much more strong in this point then in that other for which he urgeth it. press their other Protestant Brethren in matters of much smaller importance. By which so many foresaid examples of our Catholic Faith, thus affirmed by the ancient jews that lived before Christ's coming, it is made further probable that our religion is not new or lately devised, but most ancient and undoubtedly apostolic: which point is made as yet much more clear by that which is hereafter (s) See hereafter tract. 〈◊〉. sect. 7. & 8. alleged concerning the Roman Church being converted in the Apostles time and her not being sithence changed in religion. THAT TRUE MIRACLES MAKE a strong argument: And that the aforesaid faith whereto the English were converted, was confirmed with such Miracles. § 5. AND like as in those firster times of the Church's infancy, our Saviour did make manifest the truth of his Apostles Doctrine with undoubted Miracles, to serve as (a) 〈◊〉. cor 12, 12. signs of their Apostleshipe, to that end. (b) Marc. 16, 20. Confirming the word wi●h s●gnes following: So likewise this virtue or power of Miracles not ceasing, but (as our adversaries confess) (c) Whereas our Saviour, Ihon. 14, 12. saith. He that believeth in me the works that I do he shall do and greater: In the Marginal Notes of the English Bibles (Printed 1576.) it is there-upon said, this is referred to the whole Body of the Church, in whom this virtue doth shine for ever. shining in the Church for ever, the necessity thereof being one and the same in all succeeding ages to the conversion of the heathen, who contemning the scriptures, are nothing moved with the Miracles thereof mentioned, our Saviour did in like manner confirm our now faith so then taught by Aust●ne, with like manifestation of Miracles, not such only as Antichrist or the Devil can by the power of nature or secondary causes bring to pass, which may be (d) Thes. 2, 9 lying signs, against which we are forewarned, but with Miracles exceeding the power of nature, and done immediately by God: which by the Doctrine of learned Protestants (e) Vrsinus in Commentar. catech. pag. 21. fine saith: Etsi Ethnicorum nonnulla miracula commemorantur, ac de Antichristo, & pseudoprophetis dictum est edituros esse signa etc. tamen caneque numero neque magnitudine paria sunt miraculis Ecclesiae etc. primum enim ea miracula quae iactantur ab hostibus ecclesiae, sunt eiusmodi, quae (ordine naturae non mutato) hominum vel diabolorum fraudibus possunt effici etc. miracula vero quibus Deus ecclesiam ornavit, opera sunt preter aut contra naturae & causarum secundarum ordinem, ac proinde non nisi divina potentia facta. And the like is affirmed by Zanchius in D. Pauli epistolas ad Philipenses, Colloss. & Thessai. pag. 241. & 242. By Danaeus in Isagoges Christianae. part. 4. pag. 43. initio 46. fine & 47 initio By Piscator in Annal. epistolarum Pauli pag. 470 paulo ante med. and by many others. are evermore true and infallible, of which kind though some be sometimes done (as the scriptures forewarn (f) Mat. 17, 22. & Daneus (g) Danaeus in Isagoges Christianae part. 4. pag. 48. initio saith: Ad eos qui donum duntaxit miraculorum adeo acceperunt absque dono regenerationis, pertinet, quod ait Christus, multi dicent mihi in die illo; Domine nonne per nomen tuum prophetavinius, & daemonia eiecimus etc. And see the same further affirmed by Sigroartus in 23. disputat. theolog. & p. 164 sect. 12 etc. 13. confesseth) by professors of wicked life (accordingly as our Saviour in like manner (h) Mat. 10, 1. gave power over unclean spirits, and to cure all manner of diseases to his Twelve Disciples: Whereof even the wicked judas (i) Mat. 10, 4. was then one) yet are the Miracles so wrought though by such nevertheless certain and undoubted testimonies of God's truth, and for such in general are MIRACLES throughout the whole course of scriptures most fully both acknowledged (k) Exod. 8, 19 & 3. Reg. 17, 24 & 3. Reg. 18, 39 & 4. Reg. 5, 15. & Mat 27, 54. & Mat. 14, 25, 33. & joan. 2, 23 & 3, 2. & 4, 53. & 9, 30 & 11, 45. & act. 4, 14 16. & 9, 35. and urged, (l) Exodus 7, 17. & 16, 12. & number. 16, 12 28. & joshua 3, 10, 16. & 3. Reg. 13, 3, 5. & 18, 24, 38. & 20, 23, 28. & 4. Reg. 20, 8, 9, 10. & Mat. 9, 6. & Marc. 2, 10 & joan. 14, 11. & 15, 24. & 20, 30, 31. as being even to our Saviour himself (m) joan. 5, 36. a greater Testimony than john. And hence it is that the credible histories as well of all former times, as also of this (*) In the book entitled a report of the kingdom of Congo a region of africa printed 1597 published by Mr. Abraham Hartwell servant to the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury, and by him dedicated to his Lo. mention is made l. 1. c. 1. initio. Of the discovery of that Kingdom Anno 1587. by Odoardo Lopes: and of the Conversion thereof to the Christian faith l. 2 c. 2. and of the great and undoubted miracles showed by God in the presence of a whole army l. 2. c. 3. in so much that Mr. Abraham Hartwell in his epistle there to the Reader post medium, confesseth that this Conversion of Congo was accomplished (by Massing Priests) and after the Romish manner. And this action (saith he) which tendeth to the glory of God shall it be concealed and not committed to memory, because it was performed by popish Priests, and popish means? God forbidden. In like manner Mr. john Porie lately of Goneuill & Caius College in Cambridge in the Geographical history of Aphrica by him published Anno 160 pag. 410 versus finem, acknowledgeth and mentioneth the said Miracles and page 413 initio he commendeth Mr. Hartwell for Publishing his fores●ide treatise. Also whereas it appeareth in the book entitled: Rerum in oriente gestarum Commentarius. fol. 2 that Francis Xaverus set forward in his journey from Lisbon to the East India Anno 1541 to the Conversion of those Nations, and page 36. That the King of Portugal hearing of the great Miracles as then there wrought, sent forth his Commission to his Viceroy there dated in April 1556 to take examination thereof upon oath, upon execution whereof and certificate thereupon being accordingly made, it did appear (fol. 8. b.) that Xaverus in testimony and proof of the Christian faith by him then preached and taught, Cured miraculously the Dumb, the Lame, the Deaf, and with his word healed the Sick. (and fol. 9 a.) raised sundry dead persons to life, and after his death which happened (fol. 14. a) Anno 1552 the grave being opened, wherein his dead body for a time had been buried, to the end his naked bones might be carried from thence to Goa (fol. 14. b.) they found his body not only unconsumed, but also yielding forth fragrant smells from whence they carried it to Goa, and placed it there in the Church of S. Paul, where yet to this day (saith the Commentary) it remaineth free from corruption: Witness whereof saith that treatise are all the inhabitants of that City, and travelers that repair thither, and the truth hereof for matter of fact is so probable, that Mr. Whit●ker lib. de ecclesia contra Bellarminum page 353. dare not in his answer thereto altogether rest in denial of the matter of fact, but saith: ne putet (Bellarminus) me omnino haec mir●●ula contemnere: respondeo fieri posse ut in regno pontificio fuerint huiusmodi miracula & nunc sint. and page 354. post medium (he saith:) Potuit Diabolus Xaverij corpus ad tempus servare incorruptum & suaviter olens: and so he not so much denieth those miracles as over boldly referreth them to the devils work: whereas yet to the contrary Mr. Richard Hackluit preacher in his book of principal navigations etc. printed 1599 in the 2. part of the 2. volume page 88 initio. doubteth not to afford commendable mention of that holy man (Xaverus) his particular virtues and wonderful works in that Region present age, are plentiful in like examples of true and undoubted Miracles showed by God, at the Conversion of heathen Nations. Among which our Country's foresaid conversion by Austin holdeth not the least place, as being in like manner greatly then confirmed with undoubted Miracles, not lately feigned, but so credibly testified by the faithful writers of those times, that now sithence they are acknowledged for certain and true by learned Protestants themselves. To this end doth S. Bede and our own Chronicles witness, how that Austin (n) Beda hist. l. 2. c. 2. ante medium saith. Allatus est quidam de genere Anglorum, oculorum luce priu●tus etc. tandem Augustinus justa necessitate compulius, flectit genua sua etc. deprecans ut visum caeco quem amiserat restitueret, & per illuminationem unius hominis corporalem, in plurimorum cordibus fidelium spiritalis gratiae lucem accenderet, nec mora illuminatur caecus, ac verus summae lucis praeco ab omnibus predicatur Augustinus, tum Britonis confitentur intellexisse se veram esse viam justiciae quam preditet Augustinus. And see Hollinsheads chronicle after the last edition volum. 1. l. 5. c. 21. page 102 b lin. 51. to prove his opinion good, wrought a Miracle in restoring sight to one that was blind. Which kind of Miracle, as Hemnigius (o) Hemnigius in his exposition of the 84. Psal. englished part. 1. c. 6. acknowledgeth for a true Miracle, so likewise the Christian Britons present thereat, were specially (p) Beda ubi supra and Hollinshead ubi supra moved therewith. In like manner it is testified by S. Bede and Protestant writers, that Austin persuaded the King to his religion (q) Beda hist. l. 1. c. 26 circa medium saith of the King, Miraculorum multorum ostensione credens Baptizatus est, and Hollinshed ubi supra pag. 100 b, line 60. and Mr. Fox in his acts & monuments printed 1576. page 117 a prope finem. by diverse MIRACLES showed. Which were at those times so certainly known, that (as S. Bede reporteth) it was (*) Beda hist. l. 2. c. 3 fine. written in the Epitaphe upon his tomb: that he was: Suffultus a Deo Miraculorum operatione. (r) Beda hist. l. 2. c. 1 versus finem saith. Quibus verbis beatus Gregorius declarat quod Sanctus Augustinus & socij eius coelestium ostensione signorum gentem Anglorum ad cognitionem veritatis perducebant. and S. Gregory himself l. 7. epist. 30 indict. 1 reporteth hereof to Eulogius archbishop of Alexandria saying. Know then that whereas the English nation etc. remained hitherto in infidelity, I did by the help. of your prayers etc. send unto that nation (Austin) a Monk of my monastery to preach to them etc. & now letters are come to us, both of his health & of his work that he hath in hand: And surely either he or they which were sent over with him, work so many Miracles in that Nation as they may seem therein to imitate the power and miracles of the Apostles themselves. And Gregory himself, not only affirmeth those Miracles, but also by his (s) Hollinshead ubi supra page 192 a line 25. Letters dated Anno. 602. did specially (t) This letter of Gregory is extant in Bede hist. lib. 1. c. 31 and mentioned by Hollinshead ubi supra page 102 a. l. 10, 11. etc. write to Austin touching the Miracles showed by him, advising him not to glory therein, but rather to consider that God gave him the gift for the weal of those to whom he was sent etc. In so much that Mr. Fox and Mr. Godwine (both of them learned Protestants) do accordingly mention and acknowledge (u) Mr. Fox in his acts and monuments printed 1576. page 117. a. prope finem and Mr. Godwine in his Catalogue of the Bishops of England page 4 fine. the Miracles (then) wrought by Austin through God's hand. As also S. Bede, Mr. Fox, and Hollenshead do in like manner specially mention (x) Beda hist. lib. 2. c. 12. post medium and Mr. Fox his acts and monuments printed 1576 page 121 b. post medium 122 a. and Hollinshead in his great Chronicle the last edition volume 1. page 108 b initio & 109 a line 29. 30 etc. the Miraculous conversion of Edwine King of Northumber's, which happened some 26. years after Augustine's foresaid coming into England, Mr. Fox not doubting to place the same in his Catallogue of (y) Mr. Fox in the Alphabetical table of his acts and monuments printed 1576 at the word Miracle. true Miracles. hereunto we could likewise add, the undoubted many and great Miracles (z) As concerning the miracles of Malachias: To omit particular mention of them, no meaner a witness then S. Bernard, who lived in the same time with him, and was to him so familiarly known, saith of them in general (in vita Malachiae: In what kind of old miracles did not Malachias excel? He wanted not proph●sie, nor revelation, not the gift of healing, and to conclude not raising of the dead. And no less undoubted miracles are written of S. Bern●rd by his own scholar Godfridus, & others of that time, who writ his life: Godfridus (de vita Sancti Bernardi lib. 3. c. 5.) mentioning an undoubted known miracle wrought by him in Tholouse in confirming of his doctrine against the Heretics called Apostolic: who (as appeareth hereafter tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 3 in the margin under the letter ●n. denied the Real Presence, Mass, Purgatory etc. of which said miracle S. Bernard himself in his 241 epistle (which was written to the same persons) giveth a modest signification in like words, as doth S. Paul 1. Thessal. 1, 5. the many miracles of S. Bernard are so credibly and certainly reported, that Osiander in Centur. 12. page 310. post med. dare not rest in denial of them, but saith of them, Partim permissione Dei, praestigijs Satanicis effecta existimo, non quod S. Bernardum magum suisse putem, sed quod verisimile sit Satanam talia miracula effecisse etc. ad confirmationem idolatriae & falsorum cultuum: so good a Protestant he maketh S. Bernard. wrought of later times, (to omit sundry others) by holy Malachias, and S. Bernard, both of them confessed, and known (3) As concerning Malachias his Religion: Osiander Centur. 12. page 315. post med. saith: Malachias Archiepiscopus in Hibernia abineunte aetate literis & religioni addictus tandem invitus & diu admodum coactus Archiepiscopatum Hiberniae assumpsit S. Bernardo admodum familiaris fuit, eius monachatum admiratus & imitatus est, superstitiones Pontificias amplexus, Romanum Pontificem pro Deo coluit, tribuuntur illi admodum plurima miracula etc. (& vide ibidem page 256. post medium.) and S. Bernard in vita Malachiae affirmeth that Malachias was Legate to the Pope. As concerning S. Bernard's religion of whom Mr. Whitaker (in prelect. de ecclesia contra Bellarminum page 369 paulo post medium) saith: Bernardum vere sanctum fuisse existimo: He was Abbot of Clairevaux (as testifieth Simon de Voyon upon the Catallog. etc. page 126.) and he acknowledged so plainly the Pope's primacy. (whereof see S. Bernard l. 2. de consider. ad Eugenium & l. 3. c 8 and epist. 125. & 131. & 190 add Innocentium.) That he is therefore reproved by D. Fulke (against the Rhemish Testament in Luc. 22. sect. 11. fol. 133 b. post initium) and by Mr. Whitaker. lib. 2. contra Duraeum page 154 ante medium. and was so evidently a professed Catholic, that Gomarus in speculo Ecclesiae page. 23. versus finem allegeth him to us saying. Bernardus sanctus vester: and mr. Whitaker in respons. ad ratio. Camp. rat. 7. P. 105 ante med.) saith, Bernardus quem ecclesia vestra multis annis unum tulit Pium Virum: etc. Lastly this point is yet made further evident in Malachias, and Bernard: in that it is manifest that they both lived Anno. Domini. 1140. When the profession of our now Catholic faith was most flourishing; which thing Mr. jewel In his defence of the Apology printed 1571. pag. 557. Paulo ante med. confesseth saying, S. Bernard lived in the midst of the Pope's rout and tyranny: Whereupon it followeth that for so much as neither of them is found to have been troubled for any one point of Doctrine disagreeing from those times, but were to the contrary both of them in high favour as then with the Roman Sea, th'one of them being the Pope's Legate the other an Abbot, that therefore they were agreeable in religion to the professed Doctrine of those times: So improbably do our adversaries pretend S. Bernard to have been a member of their Church, for his only then zealous reproving the corruption of life and manners in the Clergy of that age. members of our now professed Catholic faith. THAT HIS majesties AVNcestours lived and died in that faith: and that it is acknowledged by Protestants for sufficient to Salvation. § 6. IN this faith thus dedicated and continued, have your majesties most Noble Ancestors (KINGS and QVEENS of this Realm) for so many ages together lived and died, with peace towards God, and honour to the world. In this faith died your highness dearest MOTHER (of Blessed Memory (admired at her death for her moste Christian resolution, the which (at the time of her Funeral) was accordingly and for such Celebrated, even by the then Preacher Protestant whom the Puritans publicly, and reproachfully traduced, for that (to use their own words therefore had of him) (z) Martin Marprelate in his Epistle Printed over Sea etc. pag. 50. Preaching at Peterburrow Agust. 2. Anno. 1587. at the funeral of one who died a professed Papist (viz. the Scottish Queen) he prayed that his soul and the souls of all there present might be with the soul of the dead Papist. For this faith thus taught us, have our learned adversaries honoured. (a) Mr. Cowper late bishop of Lincoln in his foresaid Chronicle fol. 156. a. Mr. Bilson now bishop of winchester in his true difeference between Cristiane subjection & unchristian rebellion, Part 1. pag. 57 & Mr. Fox in his Acts and Monuments Printed 1576. pag. 117. a. Mr. D. Fulke in his book against Heskins , etc. p. 561. fine & 562. initio. Gregory and Austin with due and answerable commendation, calling therefore th'one of them (b) Mr. Godwine in his Catallog. of bishops pag. 7. ante med. S. Austin (c) Mr. Godwine ubi supra pag. 7. initio. our Apostle and th'other (d) Mr. Godwine ubi supra pa. 3 ante med. that Blessed and holy Father S. Gregory etc. To this faith likewise have all the learned Protestants of sober judgement afforded the promises of hopeful salvation, as appeareth most plainly. 1. By their own most evident testimonies. 2. By their like confessed examples thereof given. 3. And by their undoubted answerable practise. To give proof of every of these parts. And 1. First concerning their testimonies in this kind: Mr. D. Baro saith, (e) Mr. D. Baro in his four sermons and two questions disputed ad clerum etc. serm. 3. pag. 448. fine. I dare not deny the name of Christians to the Romanistes sith the learneder writers do acknowledge the Church of Rome to be the Church of God And Mr. Hooker also saith. (f) Mr. Hooker in his third book of Ecclesiastical Policy pag. 188. initio. And johannes Regius in his liber. Apologeticus etc. p. 95. fine. saith In Papatu autem cum fuerit ecclesia vera. etc. The Church of Rome is to be reputed a part of the House of God, a limb of the visible Church of Christ: and (g) Mr. Hooker ubi supra pag. 130 ante med. we gladly acknowledge them to be of the family of jesus Christ: Mr. Bunnie likewise saith of Catholics and protestants: (h) Mr. Bunnie in his treatise tending to Pacification sect. 18. p. 109 circa med. Neither of us may justly account the other to be none of the Church of God, (i) Mr. Bunny ubi supra pag. 113. post med. we are no several Church from them, nor they from us: In like sort doth Mr. D. Some in defence thereof (against Penrie the puritan) say: (k) Mr. D. Some in his defence against Mr. Penrie & refutation of many absurdities etc. in Mr. Penry's treatise pag. 164. ante med. that the Papists are not altogether aliens from God's covenant, I have showed before: for (l) Mr. Doct. Some ubi supra pag. 182. initio. in the judgement of all learned men and all reformed Churches, there is in Popery a Church, a ministery, a true Christ etc. (m) Mr. D. Some ubi supra pag. 176. prope finem. If you think that all the Popish sort which died in the Popish Church are damned you think absurdly, and dissent from the judgement of the learned Protestants. Lastly to omit many others (*) Peter martyr (as appeareth by his Epistles annexed to his common places in English pag. 153. a. fine. Desired at the conference had at Poysie between the Catholics and Protestants, that they should not for diversity of opinion break brotherly Charity, nor call one another Heretics: and see the same opinion yet further affirmed by the Protestant writer against Nicholas Machiuell. printed at London 1062. page 80 post medium & 83 paulo post medium & 85. prope finem. (for we are unwilling to become tedious to your MAJESTY) Mr. D. Covell in his late treatise Published by Authority and didecated to the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury, defendeth this opinion at large, and concludeth (n) Mr. D. Covel in his defence of mr. hooker's five books of Ecclesiastical policy. Published by authority. page 77. ante med. saying we affirm them) of the Church of Rome (to be parts of the Church, of Christ, and that those that live and die in that Church may notwithstanding be saved: In so much as he doubteth not to charge the Puritans with (o) m. D. Covel. ubi supra page 68 paulo post med. Ignorance for their contrary opinion. 4 Hitherto concerning their Testimonies before undertaken. 2 Secondly, As concerning now their like confessed examples we will out of very many allege only some few: It will not (we think) be denied but that our late SOVEREIGN KING Henry the Eight, did after his breach with Rome, believe and maintain the whole frame and substance of our now professed Catholic faith, the Article of the Pope's Primacy only excepted. To which end their own author Sleidane saith of him (2) Sleydan in English l 13. fol. 174. a. initio : He exiled the name of the bishop of Rome, but kept still his Doctrine: and Mr. Fox saith accordingly: (3) Fox act. monu. pag 1472. b. sine He set forth and by full consent of Parliament established the book of six Articles containing the sum of Popish Religion. And it is evident that he himself in person, not only as then disputed, (4) Act. monu. pag. 530 a. & b. initio. but also commanded (5) act. monu. page 533. a circa med. sentence to be pronounced against Lamberte: as also the L. Cromwell red and (6) act. monu. page 533. a. pronounced that sentence, and at his own death protested himself (7) Act. mon. page 598 b circa med. & see Hollinsheads Chronicle page 591. to die in the Catholic faith, not doubting in any Article of faith or Sacrament of the Church, though (saith he) many have slandered me to the contrary. And yet is he commended by Mr. Fox to die as (8) Act. mon. page 598 b. post med. a valiant Soldier and Captain of Christ: as also the Church under the reign of King Henry the .8. is by Mr. Fulke affirmed to be a true (9) Mr. Fulke against Heskines, Sanders etc. pag. 564. sect 80. & 82. Church: and the King himself acknowledged in like manner for (10) Fulke ubi supra sect. 82 and see D. Humphrey in jesuitismi. part. 2. rat. 3 page 304 circa med. a member of the Catholic Church of Christ. In like sort (11) Osiander cent. 12. pag. 309 post med. S. Bernard lived (some 400 years since, as Mr. jewel confesseth) even (12) jewel in his defence of the Apology printed 1571. page 557. paulo ante med. and see Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 2 page 154 ante med. in the midst of the Pope rou●e and tyranny: And as we do not find that he was then troubled or gainsaid so much as in an one article different f am the doctrine of the Roman Church of that tim●, so we find confessed to the contrary, that he acknowledged even (13) Bernard l. 2 de considerate. ad Eugenium & vide epist. 125. & 131 & ep. 190 ad Innocentium and see this confessed by mr. Fulke against the Rhemishe Testament in Luc. 22. sect. 11. fol. 133. b. post initium. and by Mr. Whitaker l. 2. contra Duraeum, pag. 154. ante med the Pope's Supremacy, & was so conformable to the doctrine of the Roman Church, that he was made (14) Osiander in epiton. etc. cent. 12. page 309. and Simon de voyon. in his catalogue. etc. pag. 926 Abbot of Clairevaux, being also (15) Osiander ubi supra page 309. fine saith: Centum & quadraginta Monasteriorum author fuisse creditur: and Danaeus in primae partis altera part contra Bellarminum page 940. saith. Hieronimus & Bernardus fuerunt monachi & istius erroris authotes & fautores. author of many monasteries: In so much as our adversaries alleging him to us do call him, Sanctus vester (16) Gomarus in speculo ecclesiae pag. 23. fine. our S. and (17) Whitaker in respons. ad rat. Campiani. rat. 7. pa. 105. ante med. saith: Bernardus ecclesia vestra, multis annis unum tulit pium virum. a man brought forth by our Church: who in regard of Christian communion was dearly (18) Osiander Centuria. 12. page 305 post med. familiar to Malachias whom our adversaries reject for a confessed (19) Osiander ibid. See his words heretofore sect. 5. in the margin at the figure. 3. initio. Catholic, or papist. And yet this his known religion notwithstanding our adversaries do acknowledge him for (20) Whitaker de ecclesia page 369 paulo post med. saith. Ego quidem Bernardum vere fuisse Sanctum existimo. And see thee like in Whitaker against mr. William rainold page 125 & 126 a true saint (21) Osiander Cent. 12. page 309 post med. a very good man, (22) See this in Pasquil's return into England. page 8. & 13. a good Father, & one of the lamps of the Church of God. In like manner S. Bede (who lived about 900 years since) was so evidently of our religion, that our adversary Osiander therefore saith of him: (23) Osiander in epitome. etc. cent. 8. l. 2. c. 3. pag. 58. initio. Beda was wrapped in all the popish errors, wherein we at this day dissent from the Pope, for he admired and embraced the worship of Images, the popish Mass, invocation of saints. etc. which thing appeareth also yet more undoubtedly: (to omit his evident writings) by his (24) See mr. Fox act. monu. printed. 1576. p. 128. & 129 confessed credit and estimation had with the Popes of that age, and yet is he (all this notwithstanding) acknowledged by our adversaries to have been (25) Osiander cent. 8. p. 58. ante med. a good man (26) m. Couper in his Chronicle at the year of our Lord 734. fol. 171 b. renowned in all the world, for his learning & godly life: for which he was also privileged with the surname of (27) Of this title see Hollensheds' Chronicle at the year 735. and mr. Couper in his Chronicle at the year 724. fol. 168. b. and mr. Fox act. mon. printed 1576. pag. 128. b. & vide 129. a. & Oecolampadius in libro epistolarum Zuinglij & Oecolampadij p. 654 post med. Reverend, and by D. Humphrey specially registered, among (28) Humfredus in jesuitismi part. 2. rat. 3. p. 326. initio. the godly men raised up by the holy Ghost. Hitherto also appertaineth the like examples of Gregory and Austin both of them heretofore acknowledged for (29) hereof see heretofore tract. 1. sect. 1 d. 2. 3. e confessed popish Catholics, and yet th'one of them called by our adversaries, (30) hereof see before in this section at d. That Blessed and holy Father S. Grego. & the other (31) before in this section at b.c. S. Austin our Apostle: whereunto (to omit others) might be added the foremencioned example of your highness Dearest Mother, whose undoubted Salvation (her known religion notwithstanding) was (even in that opposition of time) by the learned advesarie as before (32) before in this section at z. publicly acknowledged. What now can our adversaries answer unto these confessed examples? Is there (33) James. 1, 17. with God variableness? or (34) Ephes. 6, 9 & deutro. 10, 17. & Rom. 2, 11 & 1. Peter. 1.17. any acception of persons? or is he (35) Numer. 23, 19 as the son of man that he should change so as one and the same religion, which was before in them holy, should now be in us damnable? And thus much briefly concerning certain undoubted examples of this kind. 3 Thirdly to make this point, more evident as yet by the like answerable practice of almost all Protestant reform Churches. Whereas they hold that (p) In the propositions and principles disputed in the university of Geneva page 166. sect. 25. the Sacraments are only to be administered, to those that are taken for known members of the Church: Which no man can be without faith, because that (q) Hebr. 11, 6. without faith it is impossible to please God. For which cause they teach concerning Infants, who in their opinion have not (r) That children have not faith is affirmed by master Carth write in mr. whitgift's defence pa. 611. And in the propositions & principls disputed in the university of Geneva. p. 178. sect 4. & by jacob. Kimedoncius in his redemption of mankind l. 2. c 15. page 164 fine. and by mr. Whitaker contra Dureum lib. 8 pag. 682. faith, (which as the scriptures witness (s) Rom. 10, 17. cometh by hearing which Infants cannot accomplish) that (t) So say the Divines of Geneva in the foresaid propositions and principles disputed page 178. sect. 4. also Oecolampadius in libro epistolarum Oecolampadij & Suinglij l. 2. page 301. circa med. saith hereof. Parentum & compatrum fides pueros sanctificat. And Praetorius l. de Sacramentis page 108. saith: Respectu fidelium parentum, infants fideles habentur. etc. Credunt igitur infants, said in parentibus they are comprehended within the covenant of eternal life, by means of the faith of their Parents, & (*) In the propositions & page 178 are for that cause to be Baptixed, and that therefore the Children of jews, Turks and such like professed Infidels, are (u) In the propositions & principles etc. ubi supra. sect 8. page 179. and mr. Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 8. page 679. fine saith. Infidelium liberos (ut Turcarum, judeorum, Ethnicorum calvinus meritò & veré negat esse baptizandos and the like is taught by Kimnedoncius in his redemption of mankind: l. 2. c. 15 page 167 fine: and see m. D. Some in his defence against Penrye, and refutation etc. page 150. not to be baptized, as not being comprehended within the covenant, by reason that their Parents do not believe. All this yet notwithstanding they profess (x) Taught by mr. Whit gift in his defence. etc. page 623 ante med. By mr. Hooker in his ecclesiastical policy l. 3. sect. 1. page 131 by D. Some ubi supra page 149 & 150 and in the foresaid propositions and principles: etc. page 179. sect 9 It is said by the Divines of Geneva: We are of mind that the children of Papists may be received unto Baptism: to teach and practise their Baptizing of Infants Borne of Catholic (or as they term) Popish Parents: Not (saith Mr. Hooker) in regard of (y) mr. Hooker ubi supra: God's promise which reacheth unto a thousand generations: for by this reason the Children of Turks and (as Mr. Hooker saith) (z) Master Hooker ibidem: all the world may be baptized, in so much as no man is a thousand descents removed from Adam. But their said baptizing of them is (according to the other premises of their Doctrine) by themselves practised and holden good, though (as Mr. D. Some affirmeth (a) m. Some in his foresaid defence etc. cap. 22. page 165 & 167 to Penry) they were the Children of Popish west-Indians whose other former ancestors never knew the Christian faith, and though (saith he) those West-indians (b) Master Some ibidem: page 167. were baptized by Popish Shavelings, yet they received true Baptism and were engraffed into Christ, and for this reason, because there is a Church in Popery, for (saith he) (c) m. Some ibidem p. 149 post med. saith: And Amandus Polanus in partic. theologic. page 305: post med. saith. Hodierna Ecclesia Romana est adhuc Ecclesia Christi, sed omnium impurissima etc. alioquin ij qui in papatusunt baptizati, extra ecclesiam Christi. ac proinde nec baptismo Christi fuissent baptisati. etc. If there were no Church at all in Popery, (then) the Infants of Papists were not to be baptized in any reformed Church: By which premises of their confessed practice it appeareth 1 that the Children of Catholic (or Popish) Parents are to be baptized 2 as being comprehended within the covenant of eternal life: 3 and that by reason of their parent's Faith: So evidently in their Doctrine and practice, is the faith of the Catholic (or Popish) Parents, holden for available to his Child. And shall it then be thought damnable to himself? or holden worthy to be yet further persecuted by our so implacable and unrelenting adversaries? THAT PROTESTANTS CANNOT prove, that the Roman Church did change her Religion, since the first Conversion thereto in the Apostles time. § 7. AND for so much as it is your highness ⁋ In the sum of the Conference before the King's Majesty pag. 75. circa med. Constant and resolute opinion, that no Church ought further to separate itself from the Church of Rome, than she hath departed from herself, when she was in her flourishing & best estate. In further probability therefore of the Premises we do presume hereby most humbly to submit to your majesties most learned judgement this brief discourse had thereof in the two sections next ensuing: it is generally confessed that the Roman Church was once the true Church and professed the right faith, whereto the (p) I thank my God for you etc. because your faith is renowned throughout the whole world. Rom. 1, 8. To all that be at Rome, the beloved of God called to be Saints, grace to you. Rom. 1, 7. That which is common to us both, your faith and mine. Rom. 1, 12. Your obedience is published in every place. Rom. 16, 19 Apostle himself giveth full and assured testimony: whereupon it evidently followeth that if the Roman Church have not since changed her religion, than she still retaineth and persisteth in the right faith. Now as touching her supposed change. we will briefly examine what our learned adversaries (who have purposely and seriously laboured in discovery or proof of this pretended change) do most materially object in that behalf 1 First then (q) Mr. Whitaker contra Duraeum. l. 7 page 480 initio: and mr. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic p. 36. post med. the first (saith Mr. Whitaker and Mr. Fulke) That exercised jurisdiction upon foreign Churches was Victor: whereto we answer (as doth the Lord Archbishope of Canterbury concerning woman's Baptism) saying to Mr. Carthwright (r) m. Whitgifte in his defence page 510 prope finem. you say in the margin that Victor Anno. 198. did first appoint that women might Baptize, by this you do add more credit to the cause then you are aware of, for Victor was a Godly bishop and Martyr and the Church at that time was in great Purity as not being long after the Apostles whereto we further add, that whereas Victor in the example now urged, did upon occasion (s) The occasion hereof was that the Churches of Asia minor had received of S. john the Evangelist to observe our Lords Pasch or Easter day not always upon Sunday but with the jews (in regard of their known weakness) upon the 14. of the moon, as in like sort upon the same ground was for the time tolerated, Circumcision: Act. 16, 3. and abstinence from blood and that which is strangled. Act. 15, 20. The Bishops of Rome who had received of S. Peter and Paul the other manner did accordingly tolerate the Churches of Asia, till such time as that certain of them in Asia made this their observation necessary, in so much that the other manner was condemned by the judaizing heretic B●asius. Tertulian de prescript. circa finem: and centur. 2. c. 5 col. 107. l. 12. hereupon Victor thought good to tolerate them no longer, and therefore prescribed the Bishops of Asia to be excommunicated, unless they conformed themselves to the latin Church in the observation of Easter day. then seeming very slender (t) The Churches of Asia not denying the feast of Easter, but differing only from the Roman Church in the day on which it should be kept, wherein also they had (as they presumed) the forementioned example and tradition of S. john for their warrant, thought this no just cause of excommunication. excommunicate the bishops of Asia: wherein (saith Mr. Fulke) (v) m. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic page 36 post med. (he passed the bounds of his Authority, howso-ever the bishops of Asia (in respect of the said occasion seeming to them so slender) censured Victor as over severe, (x) Euseb. hist. l. 5 c. 23 & 24 yet (which is most to be observed) no one of them (though thus in their own opinion provoked,) chargeth him (as in all reason if they might they would) with any undue claim or exercise of usurped authority: (y) Euseb. hist. l. 5 c. 24. initio. reporteth how Ireneus who thought Victor over sharp herein, admonisheth Victor by letters that he would not for the observation of a Tradition so long used, quite cut of so many Churches from the body of the universal Church: in which words he doth not so much impugn as plainly acknowledge his authority. for how could Victor so cut them of unless he had authority therein. even Ireneus himself (who stood most herein) acknowledgeth so plainly else where, the Primacy of the Roman see, that he is therefore specially reprehended (*) Cent. 2. c. 4 col. 64 l. 10. It is said: Novitatem deinde quandam & illud recipere quibusdam videri posset, quoth in exemplaribus Irenei, qualia nunc h●bemus, extat libro tertio cap. tertio. Ad hanc Ecclesiam propter potentiorem principalitatem necesse ●st omnem convenire Ecclesiam etc. And in the Alphabetical table of that century at the word Ireneus special reference being there made to this saying of Ireneus, it is withal said thereof: Irene● corrupta sen●entia de ●r ma●u Ecclesiae Romanae: 64, 12. by the century writers of Magdeburge: 2 Secondly Mr. Whitaker (z) Whitaker contra Duraeum. l. 7. p. 480 giveth example In Zozimus, Bonifacius, and Celestinus. bishops of Rome, (a) m. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic pa. 37 circa medium. Challenging (saith Mr. Fulke) Prerogative over the Bishops in Aphrica by forging a false Canon of the Nicen Council: Whereto we answer: that the former example of Victor who lived about some 200. years before these, fully avoideth this objection: for if Victor so long before them challenged primacy, than did they but continue it, and not first bring it in; As for the suspicion (b) The suspicion which Protestants enforce was this: Zozimus Boniface and Celestinus to prove unto the Bishops of Aphrica appeals unto Rome alleged in behalf thereof the Nicene Council: whereupon (saith mr. jewel in the 4. article of his reply The said African bishops wrote to the Bishops of the East to see their copies of the Nicene Council: upon return of which Copies from Cirrill bishop of Alexandria and Atticus of Constantinople, there appeared therein no such Canon: As also (say they) neither in the 22 Canons set down by Rufinus (hist. l. 10 c. 6) doth any such Canon appear, whereupon Protestants urge this to have been a forgery and innovation in Zozimus Boniface and Celestinus. of pretended forgery of the Canons of the Nicen Council by Zozimus, Boniface, and Celestinus it is both untrue (c) Untrue for between the time of the Nicene Council and of the foresaid bishops Cirrill of Alex andrra and Atticus of Constantinople; The Arrianes had occupied those sees, whereof see Socrates l. 2. Zozom. l. 4. Theodoret. l. 2. and Niceph. l. 9 & 10) and corrupted the true originals of the Nicene Council, so as the Canons which Rufinus setteth down and which Cirrill and Atticus sent (howsoever those Father's thought of them) were false and corrupted, which to be true, appeareth many ways. 1 First in that sundry ancient Fathers have alleged sundry Canons of the Nicene Council which are not to be found in these: As for example Ambrose ep. 82 saith: It was decreed in the Nicene Council, Ne bigamus in clerum asciscatur: S. Austin ep. 110 saith, It was there decreed (Ne Episcopus sibi successorem sufficiat: Hierom. in praefat. judith saith, concerning the book of judith: Hunc librum Synodus Nicena in numero Sanctarum scripturarum legitur computasle: And the Fathers of the second general Council of Constantinople (which was 30 years before Zozimus) in their Synodical letters written to the bishops of italy Damasus and others, extant in Theodoret hist. l. 5 c. 9 post medium, affirm that there was sanctorum Patrum in Concilio Niceno decisio: ut videlicet singularum Provinciarum antistites uná cum finitimis (modo ipsis ita visum fuerit Episcopis) ministros ad ecclesiarum commodum in suis ipsorum provincijs ordinent. julius who was bishop of Rome presently after the Nicene Council (in rescript. contra orientales pro Athanasio etc. which is in isidor's collection, and a great part thereof specially recited and alleged verbatim by Zozomin hist. l. 3. c. 7. & whereof see Socrates hist. l. 2 c. 11) saith, Canonibus in Nicena sinodo jubentibus non debere preter sententiam Romani Pontificijs concilia caelebrari. And Socrates affirmeth accordingly that such a Canon was hist. l. 2 c. 5 & that it was alleged by julius hist. l. 2 c. 13 and so likewise doth Zozomine hist. l. 3. c 9 also it is notorious and most certain (as appeareth by Athanasius in epistola de sinodis Armini & Selenci, & by Eusebius de vita Constantini l. 3. c. 5. 17 & 18 and by Epiphan. haer. 69. that one principal occasion of the Nicen Council was to determine the controversy about the observation of Easter day, and that accordingly those Fathers made a Canon thereof. To omit sundry other like examples in that kind: (whereof read Concil. Aphricanum Can. 14. and Leo ep. 25. ad Theodosium Augustum. And the Lord archbishop of Canterbury in his defence etc. page 334. post medium. And to omit likewise that the Canons alleged by Rufinus do vary from the Canons sent by Cirrillus both in number, order, and matter, divers learned Protestants, as Oecolampadius, in libro epistolarum Occolampadij & Suin glij page 664. & 667. Caluin lib. 4. institut. c. 17. sect. 36. mr. jewel in his Apology of the Church of England. and mr. Bilson now Bishop of Winchester in his true difference between etc. part. 4. page 555 ante med. do acknowledge and mention a Canon of the Nicene Council concerning the Sacrament. All which said Canons are wanting aswell in the 22. Canons set down by Ruffinus as also in the 20 Canons sent by Cirrill, in so much as Occolampadius ubi supra p. 664 ante med. expressly chargeth our latin copies as defective in this behalf. 2. Secondly in that the Arrians had burned the originals of the Nicene Council, which to be true appeareth by Athanasius in epist. ad omnes orthodoxos. And julius in rescript. ad Orientales allegeth in particular very many of the other Canons of the Nicene Council, which Protestants now reject for forged, and among them one Canon concerning appeals to Rome. 3 Lastly the Aphricans (whom this matter most concerned) were so far from charging the said Popes with Innovation or forgery that S. Austin one of them calleth Zozimus the most blessed Pope Zozimus: Aug. de gra. Christi l. 2 c. 2 & 6. 7. & 8. & 17 & epist. 157 & Concil. Aphric. in epist. ad Bonifacium. And like titles of reverence and honour are given by the African bishops to Boniface, and Celestinus. Vide epistolam Aphricani concilij ad Bonifacium. & vide epist. Aphric. council. ad Celestinum. and (d) Impertinent because that the Council of Sardica (not that heretical conventicle against Athanasius mentioned by Zozomen hist. l. 3. c. 10. And which mr. Whitaker mistaketh contra Dureun l. 7 p. 499) but that other Catholic council mentioned by Dresserus in millenar. 5. page 104 & 246. and by Carrion in chronic. p. 283 initio. and by Zozomen l. 3 c. 11. (whereat as witnesseth Theodoret hist. l. 2. c. 7 and Carrion in chronic. page 282 post med.) Athanasius and many other of the Fathers of the Nicene Council were present) affirmeth can. 7. before the times of Zozimus, Boniface, and Celestinus, this very matter of appealing to Rome, in so much as calvin l. 4 institut. c 7 sect 9 mentioneth this decree, and thought that the Pope did not forge, but by mistaking allege this decree of Sardica as the decree of the Council of Nice, so clear hereby it is that Zozimus, Boniface, and Celestinus were no Innovators. impertinent. 3 Thirdly Mr. Whitaker giveth example in Pope Siritius saying, (e) Whitaker count Duraeum l. 7. page 480 ante medium. Siritius was the first that annexed perpetual Chastity to the Ministers of the word. Whereto we answer First that Mr. Whitaker allegeth no proof that Siritius was the first, neither doth he or can he name any Catholic writer of that time so reporting: Secondly we allege most plainly to the contrary how that S. Hierome who lived in the time of Damasus predecessor to Siritius saith thereof. (f) Hierom. in Apolog. ad Pamach. c. 3 and the same doctrine doth he affirm in c. 1 ad Titum: If Married men like not this, let them not be angry with me but with the holy scriptures, with all bishops Priests and Deacons, who know they cannot offer sacrifice, if they use the act of Marriage: And this opinion was then not first begun, but (to the contrary) so universal, that Saint Hierome affirmeth it to be the general Doctrine and practice of (g) Hierom: contra Vigilant. c. 1 saith. Quid faciunt Orientis Ecclesiae quid Egipti & sedis Apostolicae? quae aut Virgines clericos accipiunt aut continentes, aut si uxores habuerint mariti esse desinunt. the Church of the East, of Egipte and the Sea Apostolic. And in like manner was the Marriage of Priests long before these times so plainly impugned even in the Greek Church by (h) Epiphanius haer. 59 after other plain words had hereof saith: At dices mihi in quibusdam locis adhuc liberos gignere, Presbiteros, Diaconos & Hipodiaconos: at hoc non est juxta Canonen etc. So plainly doth he acknowledge hereby a former Canon. Epiphanius, (i) Origen in number. hom. 23 saith: Certum est quia impeditur sacrificium indesinens ijs qui coniugalibus necessitatibus serviunt, un de videtur mihi quod illius est solius offerre sacrificium indesinens, qui indesinenti & perpetuae se devouerit castitati. & vi de Origen in Leuit. hom: 4. & l. 8. contra Celsum. Origen, and also even by that misapplied (k) Misapplied for that many learned Protestants do urge it in proof of priests marriage: whereas it proveth the contrary. example of Paphnutius, (l) It doth appear by Socrates hist. l. 1. c. 8. ante med. and Zozomen hist. l. 1. c. 22 and by the century writers Cent. 4. c. 9 col. 656. line 44. and by mr. Fulke against the Rhemish Testament in Mat. 8 sect. 3. fol. 14 a. post med. that Paphnutius, though he thought that Priesthood did not dissolve marriage contracted before orders given, yet he affirmed to the Nicene Council that those who were made Priests before they were married, should not afterwards marry: alleging for this (veterem Ecclesiae traditionem,) the ancient Tradition of the Church: so plainly doth Paphnutius hereby acknowledge that this doctrine was then holden for the Churches ancient Doctrine. that our learned adversaries doubt not therefore to (m) So Ch●mnitius in his examen council. Trident. part. 3. reprehendeth Hierom, Ambrose, and Origen page 50. a. ante med. and Epiphanius p. 62. a. initio. And Frigevilleus Gawius in his palma Christiana page 103 reprehendeth Socrates and Zozomen for their report of Paphnutius. reprehend the said Fathers, and as Epiphanius and Paphnutius in their cited testimonies hereof, do in plain terms rest upon the Church's Doctrine before their times: so likewise the Fathers of the (n) Concil. 2. Carth. can. 2. saith: Omnibus placet ut Episcopi, Presbiteri, & Diaconi etc. ab uxoribus se abstineant (and for this reason there set down) ut quod Apostoli docuerunt & ipsa seruavit antiquitas, nos custodiamus. Carthage Council doubt not in like manner to ground this point upon Antiquity and the Apostles Doctrine. So evident hereby it is, that Siritius in his foresaid Doctrine hereof brought in no Innovation or change: 4 Fourthly Mr. Whitaker giveth example in Innocent the third saying (o) Whitaker l. 7 contr. Duraeum page 480. circa med. He that first invented Transubstantiation was Innocent the third in the Lateran Council: Whereto we answer First that Mr. Whitaker barely affirmeth but proveth not this his assertion, neither doth he allege so much as any one author of those times, charging this Pope Innocent or that Council with any Innovation or change of Doctrine in this matter. And we further say that Mr. Whitaker urgeth this example how soever against his knowledge and learning, yet most clearly against all evidence of truth: for this Council of Laterane was holden Anno. 1215. (o) Whitaker l. 7 contr. Duraeum page 480. circa med. And as appeareth by the said Council and further testimony of (*) Crispinus in his book of the estate of the Church page 345. fine Protestants. there were present thereat the patriarchs of Jerusalem, and Constantinople; 70. Metropolitaines'; 400. bishops: and 800. Conuentuall Priors. Now that so many learned men of so many several remote Nations of the CHRISTIAN world, as were here assembled, should all of them agree to decree Transubstantiation, & yet the same to be an Innovation (as Mr. Whitaker saith, than First invented, is more than improbable: The truth here of therefore was most plainly to the contrary, that in the age before that Council, the Doctrine of Transubstantiation was public and general: only Berengarius as then impugned the same, and was therein publicly contradicted and specially written against by divers Fathers (p) There did in that age writ purposely in proof of the Real presence Anselmus Lanfrancus, Guitmundus Adelmanus, Algerus, Hugo Lingonensis, and others: in so much that Papir. Maslon. Annal. francorun l. 3. in Henrico Rege, testifieth saying. Berengario, omnes illius temporis Theologi Bellum indixere: And Oecolampadius in libro epist. Oecolampadij & Suinglij l. 3. pag. 712. fine saith, Vivo Berengario, multi contra ipsum scripserunt. of several Nations in that age: In so much as the foresaid Council of Laterane was at length then afterwards assembled against that his then new seeming opinion. A thing so evident that Mr. Fox confesseth and saith thereof, (q) Fox act. monumen printed 1576. pag. 1121 b. circa medium. about the year of our Lord 1060. the denying of Transubstantiation, began to be accounted Heresy, and in that num●er was first one Berengarius who lived about Anno. 1060. So far was Transubstantiation from being (as Mr. Whitaker pretendeth) first affirmed or invented afterwards in the Council of Laterane Anno. 1215. Secondly we say that also the many sayings (over tedious here to recite) of the other much more ancient Fathers who lived long before the Lateran Council, are so plain and pregnant for Transubstantiaton, that the learned Protestants themselves do in plain terms accordingly acknowledge the same, and therefore reprehend the said Fathers: To omit the plain testimony (*) Osiander in epitome. hist. eccles. Cent. 9 10. 11. & page 95. fine: saith Anno. 950. exorta est in Clero Cantuariensi acris contentio de Pane Eucharistico, alij enim asseverabant priorem panis substantiam remanere & nihillominus simul ibi verum Christi Corpus porrigi● alij verò pugnabant recitatis verbis Domini priorem substantiam elementorum prorsus evanescere atque transire in corpus Domini. etc. And Crispinus in his book of the estate of the Church page 286. circa med. & pag 289 initio. & 323. post medium. confesseth that Paschasius (who lived Anno Domini 880.) taught Transubstantiation. herein of Osiander and some others: in this sort it is confessed and affirmed that (r) Affirmed by mr. Carelile in his book that Christ descended not into Hell: fol. 58. and by Oecolampadius in libro epistolarum Oecolampadij & Suinglij. l. 3. page 661. and see Mr. Fulke against Heskens page 217 post med. & 204. aunt med. & 296 fine. And by Carrion in chronic. page 451. initio. Damascene taught Transubstantiation that both (s) See the treatise entitled Commonefact. cuiusdam theologi de sacra Domini Caena. & eiusdem Commonefact. consideratio page 211. post med. where it is said, Theophilactus & Damascenus plané inclinant ad Transubstantiationé; & vide Chemnitium examen. part. 2. p. 83. a. paulo post med. & pa. 90. b. circa medium. Damascene and Theophilacte do evidently incline to Transubstantiation: that (t) Humfredus in jesuitismi part. 2 rat. 5. page 626 saith: In Ecclesiam verò quid invexerunt Gregorius & Augustinus, intulerunt etc. Transubstantiationem etc. Gregory the great and Austin brought into England Transubstantiation: that (v) The century writers cent. 4. c. 10. col. 985. line 30. say of Eusebius Emissenus that, parum commode de Transubstantiatione dixit. etc. Eusebius, Emissenus did speak unprofitably of Transubstantiation that (x) The century writers undertaking in their fifth century. c. 4. col. 496. line 4. to set down, errores Doctorum huius seculi do therein col. 517. line 23. say: Chrisostomus Transubstantiationem videtur confirmare nam ita scribit in sermone de Eucharistiae, num vides Panem? num Vinum? num sicut reliqui cibi in secessum vadunt? absit ne sic cogites, quemadmodum enim si cera igni adhibita illi assimilatur, nihil substantiae remanet, nihil superfluit, sic & hic puta misteria consumi corporis substantia. chrysostom doth seem to confirm Transubstantiation: whereto sundry other like examples might be added: A thing so evident that Adamus Francisci (a learned Protestant writer) doth therefore acknowledge, how that (y) Adamus Francisci in Margarita theologica page 256. post med. saith: Commentum Papistarum de Transubstantiatione maturé in ecclesiam irrepsit. Transubstantiation entered early into the Church: so improperly (if not wilfully untruly) is the foresaid example of the Lateran Council, and Innocent the third urged by Mr. Whitaker, and so many other of his brethren. 5 fifthly Mr. Whitaker giveth example in Boniface the third, saying (z) Wkitaker contra Duraeum. lib. 7. page 480. post medium. he that first entitled the Roman Church to be Caput omnium ecclesiarum, the head of all Churches was Boniface the third: Whereto we answer that although this point be for the matter thereof, already answered by that which hath been heretofore said to the former examples of Victor, Zozimus Boniface, (the first) and Celestinus: yet to refel Mr. Whitaker even in Terminis: whereas Boniface the third was Pope Anno. 607. that very title of being Head is acknowledged, and given to the Roman Church by many Father's (a) Theodor●e (though agretian) in epist. ad Renatum presbiterum saith of the Roman Church, tenet enim Sancta ista sedes gubernacula regenda rum cuncti orbis ecclesiarum. And in the Counsel of Chalcedon act. 1. it is said, and not contradicted, Papae urbis Romae, quae est caput omnium Ecclesiarun, praecepta habemus. Greek and (b) Prosper de in gratis c. 2. saith, sedes Roma petri quae Pastoralis honoris facta caput mundo etc. And Victor Vticensis de persecusione vandalica, l. 2. saith, praecipue ecclesia romana quae caput est omnium ecclesiarum: And Ennodius diaconus in libro de sinodis sub spiniacho habitis saith, sanctorum voce patet pontificum, dignitatem sedis apostolicae factam toto orb venerabilem, dum illi quicquid fidelium est submittitur, dum totius corporis caput esse designatur: Vigilius bishop of Rome in epist ad Euterum. c. 7. saith, Sancta Romana Ecclesia etc. Primatum tenet omnium Ecclesiarum, ad quam tam summa episcoporum negotia, & judicia, atque quaerelae, quam & maiores Ecclesiarum quaestiones, quasi ad caput semper referenda sunt. Latin, who lived before those times: And Gregory the great predecessor to this Boniface, affirmeth in sundry places, that (c) Greg. l. 11. ep. 54. & in quartum Psalmum Paenitentialem. Romana Ecclesia est omnium Ecclesiarum caput: For and with which very title, the (d) Centur. 6. c. 7. col. 425. line 38. & l. 41. & centur. 5. c. 7. col 774. line 53. Centurists do reprehend and expressly charge both him and sundry others that lived before Bonifacius tertius. 6 Sixtly Mr. Whitaker giveth example in Gregory the great saying: (e) Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 7. p 480. He that first delivered Purgatory for a certain Doctrine was Gregory the great: whereto in Gregory's full discharge from all Innovation in this point we answer, that S. Austin long before Gregory delivereth the Doctrine thereof for most certain saying: (f) Aug. de verbis apost. serm. 34. saith, Orationibus vero sanctae Ecclesiae & sacrificio salutari & elemosinis quae pro eorum spiritibus erogantur, non est dubitandum mortuos adiwari, ut cum eis miserecordius agatur a domino, quam eorum peccata meruerunt, hoc enim a patribus traditum universa observat ecclesia. And in his book de cura pro mortuis c. 1. he saith of prayer for the dead, non parva est universae ecclesiae quae in hac consuetudine claret authoritas. It is not to be doubted but that the dead are helped by the Prayers of the holy Church, and the healthful sacrifice, and alms which are employed for their souls, that God will deal with them more mercifully than their sins deserved, for this doth the universal Church observe as delivered from our forefathers: and else where he saith no less certainly (g) Aug. in enchirid. c. 110. saith, neque negandum est defunctorum animas pietate svorum viventium relevari, cumpro illis sacrificium mediatoris offertur it may not be denied but that the souls of the deceased are relieved by the piety of their living friends, when for them is offered the sacrifice of the mediator etc. In so much as he for the Latin Church doubted not to (h) Aug. haer. 35. saith, of Aërius, fertur quoque propria dogmata addidisse nonnulla, dicens orare vel offerre pro mortius oblationem, non oportere. censure Aërius for an heretic, for his denial of this Doctrine: as also Epiphanius for the Greek Church, condemneth Aërius in like sort, saying against him in defence of prayer & oblation for the dead, (i) Epiphan. haer. 75. and ibidem versus finem. He further saith, Ecclesia necessario hoc perficit traditione a patribus accepta. The Church hath received (this) through the wide world, it was agreed upon before Aërius was: Hence it is that Mr. Fulke confesseth and saith (k) Mr. Fulke in his answer to a Counterfeit Catholic pa. 44. finem. Aërius taught that Prayer for the dead was unprofitable, as witness both Epiphanius and Austin, which they count for an error: Also he acknowledgeth that (l) Mr. Fulke in his confutation of Purgatory pa. 320. ante med. & p. 194. ante med. & pag. 326. initio. & 349. circa & post med. Ambrose, chrysostom, and Austin allowed Prayer for the dead, that (m) Mr. Fulke ubi supra pa. 320. ante med. & pa. 326. initio. & 349. post med. & pa. 78. fine. it was the common error of their times: that (n) Mr. Fulke ubi supra pa. 161. ante med. the error) of Purgatory was some what rifely budded in Austin's time, that (o) Mr. Fulke ubi supra page 392. ante med. & vide ibidem p. 303. circa med. & 393. post med. Tertulian, Austin, Cyprian, Hierome, and a great, many more do witness that sacrifice for the dead is the tradition of the Apostles. In like manner Mr. Gifford affirmeth, that even (p) Mr. George Gifford in his Plain demonstration that our Brownistes be full donatists etc. pag. 38. initio in the (Churches) public worship to pray for the souls of the dead, and to offer Oblation for the dead was general in the Church long before the days of Austin, as appeareth in Cyprian and Tertulian, which was before him and nearer to the time of the Apostles. whereunto might be added like testimony from calvin (q) Caluin institut l. 3. c. 5. sect. 10 acknowledgeth that, ante mill & tre cent. Annos usu receptum fuit ut precationes fierent pro defunctis (and a little after) sed fateor in errorem abrepti fuerunt etc. So clear is Gregory (who lived so many ages after these Fathers) discharged from all innovation in this point: 7 Seventhly Mr. Whitaker giveth example in Innocentius the third, affirming that (r) Mr. Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 7. pag. 480. post med. He was the first that instituted auricular Confession for necessary: whereto we answer that an Innovation so strange and compulsory as for men (against all natural shamefastness) to be constrained to confess their secret sins, could never have been brought in by man's only authority, without some open and great contradiction: If therefore Innocentius first brought in this usage before that time strange and untaught, what Father or other writer of that age than resisted it? or who is witness to this change? Herein Mr. Whitaker is silent. But to clear Innocentius who was Pope about Anno. 1200. It is evident that the jacobites were condemned Anno. 600. For affirming that (s) Witness hereof Guido de Iacobit●● c. 2. and Michael Buchingerus in ecclesiastica, historia: And Matheus Parisius in Henrico tertio; and jacobus Vitriacus historiae orientalis. c. 76. and Nicephorus l. 18. c. 45. we are to confess our sins to God only and that Confession of sins to a Priest is not needful. And Haymo (t) Haimo in psal. 31. saith licet deus dimittat peccata etc. tamen confitendum est Ministris ecclesiae quia nisi confiterentur, ex sua inobedientia damnarentur; & no less plain is he (ad evangelium dominicae. 15. post pentecosten ite ostendite vos sacerdotibus. who lived about Anno. 790. expresseth the like agreeable Doctrine of the Church in his time: as also S. Bernard (v) Bernard. in meditationibus c. 9 saith said dicis sufficit mihi soli deo confiteri quia Sacerdos sine eo a peccatis me absoluere non potest; ad quod non ego sed beatus jacobus respondet dicens, confitemini alte rutrum peccata vestra etc. And vide eum de interiori domo c. 37. Petrus Damianus and others (y) Concil. 2. Cabilonense (which was Anno. 813) can 32. saith, Sed & hoc emendatione egere perspeximus, quod quidam dum confitentur peccata sua Sacerdotibus non plenè id faciunt etc. And Alcuinus who lived Anno. 730. l. de divinis officijs c. 13. in c. jeiunij, saith. confiteatur omnia peccata sua quae recordare potest etc. quo facto fixis genibus in terram & super ipsa innixus stans suppliciter tensis manibus blando ac flexibili vultu respiciens sacerdotem, dicat etc. And see Aug. de visitatione infirmorum l. 2. c. 4. and l. 50. homiliarum hom. 49. c. 3. and Hospinianus in historia sacramentaria l. 4. pa. 366. circa med. reproveth the same Doctrine of Auricular Confession, in Peter Lombard who (saith he) lived Anno. 1150. & also in Hugo de S. Victore who lived (saith he) about the year 1130. both of them before Innocent the third. who all lived before Innocent the third, do the like for their times. To omit that S. Basill affirmeth plainly that Confession is (z) See Basil's words. hereafter tract 3. sect. 1 in the margin under the letter a. Necessary: and that S. Leo affirmeth it to be Christ's (a) See the words of Leo hereafter tracked 3. sect. 1. in the margin under the letter. a institution, teaching with all even (b) Vide ibidem. secret Confession: Our adversaries the century writers (c) The century writers cent. 3. c. 6. col. 127. l. 28. say, absolutionem deinde a peccatis ita conferebant, si qui paeenetentiam agebant, peccatum prius confessi essent: sic enim confessionem magnopere Tertulianus urgent in libro de paenitentia; & usitatam fuisse privatam confessionem qua delicta & cogitata quoque prava confessi sunt, ex aliquot C●priani locis apparit, ut ex sermone quinto de lapsis, & l. 3 epistolarum, epistola 14. & 16. ubi diserte ait in minoribu● etiam pecca tis quae quidem non in deum committuntur, necesse est ad exomologesm venire, idque frequenter fierr inbet l. 1. epist. 3. etc. speaking of the ancient Church's usage even in those former times of Cyprian and Tertulian, do out of their writings most plainly collect and set down private Confession even of thoughts and lesser sins: and that it was as then commanded and thought necessary. So greatly is Mr. Whitaker mistaken in this example. (x) Petrus Damianus: epist. 1. allegeth a notable example in proof hereof: (& vide eum in serm. 2: de S. Andrea Apostolo) and concludeth advising men not to defer their confession. 8 Eightly Mr. Whitaker giveth example in Pope Nicholas the second, saying of him (d) Whitaker contra Dureum l. 7. pa. 480. Qui primus docuit corpus Christi sensual●●er tractari. fra●gi & dentibus atteri is Nicholaus secundus suit: Whereto we answer 1. First that the matter hereof is already sufficiently answered by that which hath been heretofore said concerning The fourth former example of Transubstantiation, and the confessed antiquity thereof in many Fathers who lived long before this Pope Nicholas the second: 2. Secondly concerning the phrase (which is but a verbal objection) S. chrysostom (many ages before Pope Nicholas) said in like manner, (e) Chrisostom in Math. hom. 83. post med. Ipsum vides, Ipsum tangis, Ipsum comedis: And else where (f) Chrisostom in john hom. 4 5. post med. Non se tantum videri permittet desiderantibus, sed & tangi & manducari & dentes carni sua infigi: And in what true and sober sense, these words may (in regard (g) As S. Paul in like regard saith, This is my Body which is broken for you 1. cor 11, 24. and Caluin de caena dom. inter opuscula saith in like manner, john Baptist saith, he saw the holy Ghost descending, of we look narrowly, we shall find he saw nothing but a Dove etc. Yet because he knew that vision to be etc. a most certain sign of the presence of the Holy Ghost, he boldly affirmeth that he saw him etc. As the holy Ghost is in regard of this foresaid presence said to be seen and to descend: so may Christ's Body in regard of it like presence in the Sacrament be likewise said to be handled, broken, etc. of Christ's Body Really present in the Sacrament) be used, is at large affirmed by our adversaries the Lutherans, who doubt not specially to (h) jacobus Andraeas in confut. disput. johan. jacobi Grinaei pa. 214. ante med. saith, quomodo autem corpus Christi in hoc sacramento dentibus teri, videri, tangi, dicatur, quae non á Luthero recens inventae & in ecclesiam introductae, sed eruditae, piae, & orthodoxae vetustatis phrazes sunt, etc. Luculenter explicatum est. And page 215. post medium. He saith: Haec Berengario á Papa Nicholas & sinodo praescripta pallinodia nihil continet, quod inscriptis orthodoxorum Patrum, Chrisostomis in primis non continetur: & vide page 306. And of Luther's like allowance and defence of Pope Nicholas herein, vide ibidem page 307. initio. & fine. And so the book entitled apologia modesta ad acta conventus quindecem theol. torgae nuper habit page 36. post medium. defend against their other brethren our adversaries, this very objection concerning Pope Nicholas. 9 Ninthly and lastly (for we will not in this our discourse which toucheth only Rome, be tedious in rehearsing Mr. Whitakers other untrue and impertinent examples concerning other Churches or bishops,) Mr. Whitaker (for want of greater matter) chargeth Pope Calixtus that (i) Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 7. pag. 480. he was the first that ordained jeiunium quatuor temporum whereunto for so much as this ancient Pope was the immediate successor (next but one) to Victor, we answer as heretofore did the Lord Archbishope of Canterbury concerning Victor saying: (k) See heretofore tracked 1. sect 7 letter r. By this you add more credit to the cause then you are aware of: etc. And seeming that Mr. Whitaker can allege no ancient writer charging Calixtus with Innovation herein, the example therefore and authority of so ancient a Father, doth not so much impugn as give credit to this appointed fast, so as further answer hereunto is needless. Mr. Whitaker having thus failed in every one of those examples whereof he made bold to give instance, and the Roman Church being found therein free from all supposed change or Innovation: how much the rather now are we to esteem it no less cleared from change in those other so many & great Doctrines, whereof he is not able to afford so much as colour of instance to the contrary? his apparent want in that behalf being such as enforced him for show of variety, to give (as before) several examples concerning one & the same question, as namely concerning the Blessed Sacrament, and the Pope's foresaid Primacy. In all which nevertheless he had so little trust and did so well foreknow the discoverable weakness thereof, that he else where protesteth plainly that he and his brethren (l) Mr. Whitaker l. 3. contra Duraeum pag. 277. ante med. And Bucanus in loc. common. pag. 466. saith: non est nostrum designare quo temporis momento experit ecclesia deficere etc. are not bound to answer in what age Superstition crept into the Church, and that (m) Mr. Whitaker l. 7. contra Duraeum pag. 477. post med. it is not needful for them to search out in histories the beginning of this change: And for that in deed he right well knew that he could not show the same, therefore quite against his own former examples, and in proof that it cannot be showed, he allegeth similitudes of (n) Whitaker contra Camp. ●at. 7. pag. 101. & 102. the hairs of a man's head which wax not whit suddenly, but by degree not to be discerned: and of (o) Whitaker contra Camp. ibidem. slifters entering into a building, at first not to be perceived. etc. and so with deceitful and (p) Deceitful and misapplied in many respects: As 1 In that the hairs, nor somuch as any one hair of a man's head are instantly at the first become white at changed. Neither doth every first beginning of decay in buildings at the first become an outward & markable ruin, whereas in Doctrine every opinion is at the first either true or false: 2 Secondly the first whiteness of some few hairs, and the first decay in buildings cannot be at the first discerned, though they were precisely regarded, which is otherwise in change of Doctrine: 3 Thirdly none is specially charged so precisely to mark these, whereas on the contrary, it is the special charge not of a few, but of all the Church's Pastors not only to mark but also publicly to withstand the other. misapplied resemblances, laboureth to perplex and sophisticate his reader's judgement, wherein to bear with his boldness, and to admit (for the time) his said similitudes for pertinent, yet is all this unable to relieve our adversaries: for though we should be sparing hereupon to charge them with showing the first beginning of so great a change as is by them imagined (which is all that by these foresaide-misaplied resemblances, our adversaries do wrongfully urge) nevertheless at the least yet, we are in all reason to expect, that (according to the nature of these their own examples) (q) For though the first whit hair or slifter be not discerned, yet the further degrees & increase thereof are markable & discerned. they should discover and describe to us some proceed and increase of this supposed change: If therefore they say that this change was not made all at once, but by little and little, some times in one point of faith, some times in an other, then are they accordingly to show forth those several little changes or some degrees of the increase and proceedings thereof. As what be those several points of faith so by degrees at several times changed, which be the Popes that were agentes therein, & who be the fathers that impugned the same etc. In this sort (to omit the like in (*) Saravia in defension tractationis de diversis ministrorum gradibus. cap. 23. p. 362. initio. saith upon like occasion, respondeo id dici non fat esse, sed ex historijs demonstrandum esse quae illa fuerint schismata, & ubi & quando nata, & quomodo inde tam universalis consuetudo fuerit profecta: And see him further, ibidem pag. 429. initio. D. Saravia) doth the L. Archbishope of Canterbury defending (1) Mr. Whitgifte in his defence etc. pag. 747. initio. Cathedral Churches against Mr. Carthwright, (2) Mr. Whitgifte ibidem. demand accordingly of him: from what Pope they came or in what time they were first invented: Affirming withal (else where) against the Puritans that (3) See heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 3. l. m. num. 13. for so much as the original and beginning of these names Metropolitaines' archbishop etc. cannot be found, it is (therefore) to be supposed, that they had their original from the Apostles, for (saith he) S. Austin hath this rule etc. In defence whereof he further allegeth (4) See heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 3. l. n. num. 14. sundry Protestant writers: And hence likewise it is, that S. Hierome doubteth not to teach, that (5) Hierom ad clitesi phontem. to reduce an heresy to it beginning is a confuting thereof, the truth of which his assertion Mr. Whitaker (6) Whitaker contra duraeum l. 7. pag. 479. paulo post med. saith, multum autem ad haereses refutandas confer, earum originem nosse nemo negat. acknowledgeth. This point therefore is not our only assertion or urging, but is also yet further grounded upon the confessed sense of scriptures, which teach that (7) See hereafter Tract. 2. cap. 2. Sect. 1. z. a. b. d. Pastors and Doctors must be always in the Church: and that (8) Hereafter Tract. 2. ca 2. sect. 1. l. 1. & ibidem l. p. q. r. they shall not be silent: but shall (9) See hereafter tract. 2. ca 2. Sect. 1. l. p. always resist all false opinions with open reprehension: The office also and nature of the Church argueth no less, for how can she be the true Church, and yet suffer so many and important errors as are pretended to invade her children without resistance upon her part? the experience likewise of all former times is answerable hereunto, for in this sort have the old Heresies of the Graetians and Lattines been discovered, and (10) See this at large in the several treatises of Ireneus, Epiphanius, Theodoret Augustine, Damascene, etc. written purposely by them against heresies: contradicted: In this sort were of later times, Berengarius, Waldo, Wicliffe, Luther, etc. Ever at their first arising contradicted and charged with Innovation. In this sort lastly is the defection or change in Doctrine heretofore made by the (11) 1 First, concerning the defection of the Greek Church, the more ancient examples thereof in Paulus samosetanus, macedonius, Nestorius etc. are so memorable as further testimony thereof needeth not. 2 Secondly as concerning the several defections for later times of the Greek Church from the Roman, they are testified by Nicephorus, Zonoras', Clycas, Hunbertus against Nicetas, and others. And in part by some Protestants, as namely by Crispinus in his discourse of the estate of the Church pag. 364. fine. & 253. initio. And by Osiander in his Epitome. Centur 9 10. 11 etc. p. 144. circa med. & 156. post med. & 261. fine. & 262. fine. & by Mr. Spark against M. john de Albines p. 158 And by Keckermanus in Sistem theolog. l. 1. pag. 68 & 69. Twelve times or there abouts hath the Greek Church reconciled itself to Rome, and afterwards fallen from thence being thereupon now at last wholly oppressed with barbarous turcism. 3 Thirdly as concerning the several errors (few in comparison) wherein the Greek Church at this day dissenteth from the Roman: their beginning and contradiction is notorious: As for example their denial of subjection to the Roman sea was begun by john of Constantinople and he thereupon specially contradicted by Gregory the Great l. 4. ep. 34. & 36. & l. 7. ep. 36. & 64. and by Pellagius in his epistle, universis Episcopis qui illicita vocatione joannis Constantinop. ad sinodum convenerunt. Also their denial of prayer for the dead. was begun by Aerius and contradicted in him by Austin haer. 53. and by Epiphanius haer 75. And yet afterwards in both these doctrines they conformed themselves to Rome, as is reported by Mr. Spark ubi supra. and by Osiander cent. 15. page 477. and by Crispinus ubi supra pag. 451. In like manner their defence of marriage of Priests was contradicted against Theodorus by Chrisostom. in epist. 6. ad Theodorum Monachum: and against certain other by Epiphanius haer. 59 ante med. Also their denial of the holy ghost proceeding from the Father and the Son was begun and gain said about Anno 764 as witnesseth our adversary Keckermanus in sistem. theolog. pag. 68 the denial of unleavened bread in celebration of the Sacrament was begun about Anno Domni 1053 as appeareth by Leo the .9. in epst. ad Michaelem Episcopum Constantinop. c. 5. and by Osiander cent. 11. page 156. post med. And by the century writers cent. 11. c. 8. Like example might be given of their other, but few and lesser errors. the which Anno Domini 870. consist (as appeareth by testimony of Chrispinus in his discourse of the estate of the Church page 253. initio) but only in the Primacy and the diversity of Ceremonies All which notwithstanding they do vehemently profess to detest the Protestants religion, as appeareth by the two several treatises translated lately into latin, the one made by Hieremias Patriarch of Constantinople, the other entitled responsio Ioan●●s Basilij magni ducis Muscoviae etc. Anno 1570. And published and replied unto by joannes Lasicius a Protestant writer of Poland, and extant in the book entitled de Russorum Muscovitarum & Tartarorum religione etc. printed 1582. And it appeareth in the treatise set forth even by the Protestant divines of witteberg, entitled acta theologorum witebergensium & Hieremia Patriarchae constantinop. de Augustana confession etc. Printed witeberga Anno 1584. that the Greek Church yet to this day professeth and teacheth Invocation of Saints and Angels (pag. 55. fine. 102. ante med. & 128. initio) Relics (pag. 243. fine. & 368. post med.) worshipping of Images, (pag. 243. initio 244. circa & post med. 247. ante med. & 251. fine) Transubstantiation (pag. 86. initio 96. initio. 100 circa med. 240. post med. & 318.) Sacrifice (pag. 102. & 104. post med.) The signifying ceremonies of the Mass: pag. 97. Circa med. And see the marginal note thereupon. And pag. 99 & 100 Auricular Confession in prefat. ant med & in libro pag. 87. initio. & 130. post med. Enjoined satisfaction: pag. 79. & 89. post med. Confirmation with Chrism: (pag. 78. initio. & 238. fine.) Extreme unction: (pag. 242. initio & 326. aunt med.) And all the seven Sacraments (pag. 77. Circa med. & 242. Also Prayer for the dead page 93. post med. 102. ante med. & 109. post med. Sacrifice for the dead: page 95. circa med. & 104. post med. Alms for the dead. page 93. post med. & 109. circa med. free-will page 224. circa med. 296. ante med. & 367 circa med. monachism: page 132 ante med. & 257. aunt med. Vows of chastity: page 111. circa med. & 129. post med. & 135 post med. The fast of Lent and other set fasting days page 126 fine. That Priests may not Marry after orders taken: page 129. circa med. and lastly (to omit many other) that the tradition and doctrine of the Fathers is to be kept page 131 fine 138. initio & 142. so plainly in all these chief points doth the greek Church yet to this day remain unchanged. GREEK CHURCH to us (though in comparison strangers thereto) at this day yet discoverable. And could then our home neighbour Rome, only Rome, cast of her primitive faith, and in lieu thereof set abroach pretended errors, not few but many, not small but of importance not of belief only but also of practise (as prayer for the dead: Prayer to saints: Pilgrimage. Vowed Chastity: monachism: Offering of external sacrifice to God. and above all (to omit many other) the external adoring (as protestants think of Bread and Wine for God,) neither keep these private to herself, but therewithal infect so many Christian Nations (12) Nappeire upon the revelations. page 68 Reignening universally: and all this as Mr. Napeire confesfeth (13) Nappeire ibidem. without any debateable contradiction (14) Ibidem page 239. ante med. never suffering for the space of a 1000 years after Silvester the first, (nor before for any thing that is alleged, so much as) any to be seen vouchable or visible of the true Church to match or encounter her: (whereas yet our adversaries themselves, do acknowledge and report (15) Reported at large by the century writers in the fifth Chapter of their several Centuries of every age. the confessed and known heretics who in every of the foresaid ages, have in other points openly and boldly contradicted (16) This is testified by the century writers ubi supra and by the other ecclesiastical writers of every age: and see hereafter tra. 2. c. 2. sect. 9 l. 2. the ROMAN Church) And though we should suppose all this so strangely to have happened, could yet so great and strange a wonder but so much as in that one foresaid example of (17) Whereas our adversaries pretend that Honorius the third who was Pope Anno. 1220. did first bring in the adoration of the Sacrament: it is a mere fiction, for no writer of that age did gainsay or so much as charge him with Innovation therein, only he did ordain that Priests should admonish the people against their ne●ligence in that behalf. Before this Honorius Odo Parisiensis, who lived. 1175. (in synodicis constitutionibus cap. 5. de sacram. Altaris) saith in like manner: Frequenter moneantur Laici, us ubicunque viderint deferri Corpus Domini, statim genua ●●ectant tanquam Domino & creatori suo, & iunctis manibus quoadusque transierint orent: also Algerus Anno Domini. 1060. l. de sacram. Eucharist l. 2. c. 3. fine. saith, Hac fide ipsum sacramentum quasi divinum quiddam & rationabile alloquimur, & rogamus: Agnus dei qui tollis peccata mundi miserere nobis, quia non quod videtur, sed quod verè est, Christum ibi esse credimus. Also Antonius Praetorius a learned Caluinist in libro de sacramentis pa. 288. prope initium: Telling how Damascene taught Transubstantiation, with all further saith Anno. 735. Subserve est Panis adoratio, ac si ipse Christus esset. And so accordingly Carrion in his Chronic. (pag. 451. prope initium, doth not only charge Damascene most expressly with transubstantiation, but doth also (ibidem pag. 476. circa med. & 477. paulo ante med.) place Artolatria. That is to say (saith he) the odoration of the reserved and eluated Bread (sequentibus Annis quingentis etc.) within the second five hundredth years after Christ. By which only premises as it is clear and confessed that adoration of the sacrament was used long before the time of Honorius the third. So also it is as evident and confessed by Protestants, and namely by Mr. Foxe (act mon. pag. 896. b. fine. and after the aedition of Anno 1596. pag. 1276. a. line 14.) that if this Honorius did not begin the same, the first beginning thereof, is then so sarr from being found, that we cannot (saith Mr. Fox) find it to come in by any other: Add but now hereunto the answerable testimonies of Austin in Psalm. 98. of Ambrose de spiritu Sancto l. 3. c. 12. of Theodoret dial. 2. of chrysostom in 1. cor. hom. 24. of Basill de spiritu Sancto cap. 27. of Nazianzen, in Epitaph Gorgoniae, and of Dionysius Areopagita, de Eccles. Hierach. c. 3. which are so plain and agreeable with our external adoration of Christ in the Sacrament, that our adversaria Chemnitius doth for such allege sundry of them against our adversaries the sacramentaries (in his examen Concil. Trident part. 2. p. 92.) adoring the sacrament for God, (much more in so many other points of faith) have been so brought and devulged into so many Christian Nations near and remote, and not once testified or remembered, so much as by any one of the Church's enemies neither heretical nor profane: were the Churches own pastors, her home enemies and strangers to her Religion all of them silent herein, THAT CATHOLICS ARE ABLE TO prove the contrary even by Testimony of the learned Protestants. § 8 AND although the proof of the ROMAN Churches supposed change of her religion lying on our adversaries part, and hitherto wanting, might be matter in this behalf sufficient to offer unto your highness learned judgement; yet will we ourselves in surplusage exhibit further demonstration of her not change in any needful article of faith, by manifest testimony from our learned adversaries: First than it is heretofore fully proved by evident confession of the learned Protestants (aswell in general, (a) This is fully confessed heretofore Tract 1. Sect 1 paulo post initium, and Mr. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic pag. 36. initio. affirmeth also that, the religion of the Papists, came in and prevailed in the year of our Lord 607. as also concerning every point of faith in particular) (b) This is heretofore proved Tract. 1. Sect. 1. in the margin at the letter d. that in the time of Gregory the great bishop of Rome, the Roman Church professed our now Catholic, or (as they term it) Popish faith; and that she hath persevered in profession thereof ever since that time, is confessed likewise by our adversaries, and made so evident by all histories as that to undertake further proof thereof were tediousness both (c) Confessed heretofore tract 1. sect. 2. in the margin at the letter l. and also at this mark *. And Mr. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic pag. 27. circa med. speaking of Boniface the third who was bishop of Rome the 2 year after the death of Gregory the great (teste Anastasio l. de vitio Pontificum) saith the Popes from Boniface the 3. were all blasphemous heretics & Antichrist's: And he affirmeth the same in his confutation of Purgatory pag. 344. post med. And he likewise affirmeth Boniface the third to be Antichrist, and that under him The Papists religion prevailed (in his foresaid answer to a Counterfeit Catholic pag. 36. and in his confutation of Purgatory pa. 194. paulo post med. & vide Whitakerum l. de Ecclesia pa. 260. fine. & 261. improper and needless. This (d) This is manifestly affirmed and collected from the Ecclesiastical writers of every age, and by our adversaries the century writers, in every of their several Centuries. Gregory lived somewhat within the first 600. years after Christ, so that having now hereby already proved the continued profession of the Roman Church in our now taught Catholic faith for all these last thousand years: The only difficulty and doubt lest to be examined, is whether that she did make change of her faith, during these other foresaid first 600 years next after Christ. This being the main point or issue of this present controversy, we will now first examine for how many hundredth years next after Christ, the Church of Rome is confessed to have persevered without revolt or change in the faith first to her delivered: In discovery whereof, whereas our writers do object, how that Tertullian provoked the heretics of his time with the succession of the Roman bishops, Mr. D. Fulke answering thereto affirmeth the reason thereof to be, for that (saith he) (e) Mr. Fulke in his confutation of Purgatory p. 374. post med. The Church of Rome retained by succession until Tertullia's days that faith which it did first receive of the Apostles: With whom agreeth herein Mr. D. Whitaker (f) Whitaker de Ecclesia pa. 278. post med. speaking of certain Apostolic Churches, & amongst them of Rome by name: saith, unde intelligimus cur ad illas Ecclesias provocaret Tertullianus, nimirum quia tum Doctrinam Apostolicam perpetua successione tenebant. and Hierome (*) Zanchius de vera relig. p. 148. circa med. Zanchius and where one of our writers urgeth (g) In Mr. Fulkes confutation of purga. p. 372. ante med. the succession of the Roman bishops by example of Ireneus, Cyprian, Tertullian, Optatus, Hierome, Austin, and Vincentius Lirinensis, Mr. Fulke answereth thereto saying, (h) Ibidem p. 373. paulo ante med. that these men specially named the Church of Rome. It was because the Church of Rome at that time, as it was founded by the Apostles, so it continued in the Doctrine of the Apostles. And Mr. D. rainold being provoked in the same kind acknowledgeth in like manner that (i) Mr. D. rainold in his conference with M. Harte pa. 442. post med. the succession of the Roman bishops was a proof of the true faith in the time of Austin, Epiphanius, Optatus, Tertullian, and Ireneus etc. And the like acknowledgement or answer thereto, is made by many other (k) Ridley in Mr. Fox acts and Monuments p. 1359. b. circa med. saith, The patriarch of Rome in the Apostles time, & long after was a great maintainer & setter forth of Christ's glory in the which above all other Countries and Regions was Preached the true gospel, the sacraments were most duly administered etc. After the Emperors became Christians the gospel there flourished most: And Mr. jewel in his reply to M. Harding pa. 246. ante med. saith, Aswell S. Austin as also other godly father's right lie yielded reverence to the sea of Rome etc. For the purity of religion which was there preserved a long time without spo●. And pag. 628. paulo post med. he further saith, the godly Fathers (of those foresaid times) sought to the Church of Rome, which then for purity in religion, and constancy in the same was most famous above all others. learned Protestants: only we will conclude with Caluin, who setteth down our foresaid allegation saying of us (l) Caluin institut l. 4. c. 2. sect. 2. saith Magnifice illi quidem suam nobis Ecclesiam comendant: allegant enim ●am apud se initio sana Doctrina & sanguine Martirum bene fundatam, perpetua Episcoporum successione conseruatam fuisse ne intercideret; commemorant quanti hanc successionem fecerunt, Ireneus, Tertullianus, Origenes, Augustinus, & alij. They in deed set forth their Church to us very gloriously etc. They report out of Ireneus, Tertullian, Origen, Augustine and others, how highly they esteemed this succession: Whereto he than answereth and giveth his like reason thereof, saying, (*) Cum extra controversiam esset nihil a principio usque ad illam aetatem mutatum fuisse in Doctrina, sumebant quod omnibus novis erroribus conficiendis sufficeret, illos opugnare Doctrinam ab ipsis usque Apostolis constanter & unanimi assensu retentam. (Caluin ubi supra l. 4 cap. 2. sect. 3.) Considering it was a matter out of all doubt that from the beginning even until that time, nothing was changed in Doctrine, the (foresaid) holy Doctors took in argument that which was sufficient for the overthrowing of all new errors, (to wit) that they (viz. the heretics) oppugned the Doctrine which even from the very Apostles themselves had been inviolably and with one consent retained: And in his book of Institutions set forth in French he saith expressly that (m) Caluin in his institutions in French Printed at Gaeneva by Corradus Badius, Anno. 1562. saith, C'estoyt une chose notoire & sans doubt, que depuis L'ange des Apostres, iusques a lour temps, il ne S'estoit fait nul. Changement de Doctrine, nigh a Rome ●y aux autres villes. It was a thing notorious & without doubt, that after the Apostles age until those (foresaid) times, no change was made in Doctrine neither at Rome nor at other Cities: So plainly do our learned adversaries acknowledge that no change of faith was made by the Roman Church from the Apostles age until the times of Saint Austin, Epiphanius, Optatus etc. Which was for four hundredth and forty years after Christ. The Church of Rome being then thus cleared from all change of Doctrine (at the least concerning any needful article of faith which is the only point now pertinent and questionable) during aswell the first 440. years after Christ, as also the other thousand years now last passed. There remaineth only to be examined, the interim of those 160. years which passed between the said first 440. and the said other last 1000 years; in which mean time, if no such supposed change was, then doth it hereof avoidable follow that as the Church of Rome at first received and professed the right faith, so likewise she doth yet still to this day continue and preserve the same. The matter being as then (even from the testimonies of our learned adversaries) made thus issuable, and plainly deduced to this certainty or narrow compass of time: we have here often provoked them to give example or instance of this their supposed change in the Roman Church during the said mean time of 160. years. In full discovery of which point, we will briefly urge three special reasons next ensuing: As First seeing the scriptures do witness to us aswell that Christ hath placed in his Church (n) Ephes. 4, 11, 12, 13. Pastors and Doctors, (to continue) to the consummation of Saints, until we all meet in the unity of faith, even as our adversaries do hereupon expound) (o) Mr. Fulke against the Remish testament in Ephes 4. fol. 335. a. initio. And Caluin institut. (Printed Genevae 1550.) c. 8. de fide. sect. 37, 38. p. 233. 234. & melancthon in loc. common. (Printed 1561.) c. de Ecclesia. for ever: as also that these (p) Esay. 62, 6. watchmen or (*) See the margi. notes of the English Bible of Anno 1576. in Esay 62, 6. Pastors (q) Esay 62, 6. shall not be silent, but shall (as Mr. Fulke confesseth) (r) Mr. Fulk in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic pa. 11. initio. always resist all false opinion (even) (s) Mr. Fulke ibidem pa. 92. ante medium. with open reprehension which thing is also otherwise most evident, in that by the judgement of all men (t) See this confessed hereafter tract 2. c. 1. sect. 6. in the margin at the letter m. & tract 1. c. 2. sect 13. in the margin at the letter r. Christ's true Church must ever continue, but the true Church she neither is nor can be, if she fail so much in duty, as to suffer so many supposed errors to assault & invade her Children, without some open defence and resistance to the contrary: Therefore so many and so important Doctrines, as Merit of works, Prayer for the dead, Prayer to Saints, Free-will, Real presence, Adoration of Christ in the sacrament, Sacrifice of the Mass, The unmarried life of Priests, and so many other more such like, could never (supposing they were errors) have in so small a compass as of those said 160. years, been brought to have been as then begun and publicly professed by the Roman Church, without great difficulty of resistance and open reprehension of some one or other Godly man in some part of the true Church. The examples (u) These examples are yet extant, and to be found in Ireneus in libro adversus haereses. And in Epiphanius and Augustine in their several books against heresies. aswell of the times then precedent wherein were so contradicted but for some one or other several opinion. The Valentinians, Tatianists, Manichees, Arianes, etc. As also of the ages then subsequent, in which were in like sort contradicted the several (x) These examples are collected out of the Fathers of every of those ages by the Protestant writers, as namely by the century writers in their fift Chapter of every several century: See also Pantaleon in his Chronologie, and Osiander in his several centuries. other heresies of every age, and all yet to this day manifouldly recorded, give plentiful demonstration herein. The like examples also of the very foresaid 160. years now in question afford no less evidence hereof, for even as then were contradicted for their several opinions to us, yet at this day discerned and known not only the (y) Aug. l. de haeresibus ad quod vultdeum haer. 88 pelagians, (z) Aug. ibidem haer. 91. Nestorians, (a) Aug. ibidem haer. 69. Donatists (b) Sexta synod. Constantinop. and see Centur. 6. col. 311. line 37. Monothelites etc. But also (which argueth this matter most invincibly and clearly for us and against our adversaries) sundry heretics for their then private and singular denying (as protestants now do) sundry points of our now professed Catholic faith. The undoubted examples whereof, are many and by our very adversaries acknowledged: So even in or (which is more strong) next before the beginning of the said 160. years was (as is confessed) the denial of prayer and offering sacrifice for the dead & of our appointed fasts condemned as singular in (c) Hereof see Aug. haer. 53. and Epiphanius haer. 75. ante med. And Mr. Fulke in his answer to a Counterfeit Catholic pag. 44. fine. & 45. initio. Confesseth this saying, I will not dissemble that which you think the greatest matter, Aerius taught that Prayer for the dead was unprofitable as witness both Epiphanius and Austin, which they count for an error: Also he taught that fasting days are not to be observed: And see this confessed in like manner by Pantaleon in Chronographia pag. 28. initio. Aërius. So also was the denial of prayer to Saints and worshipping of Saints Relics condemned likewise as then in (d) Hierom contra Vigilantium c. 2. &. 3. And Mr. Fulke confesseth this likewise, ubi supra pag. 46. paulo ante med. saying, Last of all Vigilantius shall be brought in who wrote against Invocation of Saints, superstition of Relics, and other ceremonies, him Hierome reproveth. & vide centur. 4. col. 1250. line 45. And Osiander in epitome. cent. 4. l. 4. pag. 506. ante med. And see this further confessed by Crispinus in his discourse of the estate of the Church pag. 131. post med. Vigilantius: In the same times were condemned in like manner the denial of Images in (*) Functius (a Protestant writer) in libro 7. Comentariorum in precedent. Chronologiam. At Anno. Christi 494. confesseth saying, Porro is xenayas primus in Ecclesia bellum contra imagines excitavit: And Nicephorus in hist. Eccles. l. 16. c. 27. saith, Xenayas iste primus (o audacem animam & os impudens) vocem illani evomuit, Christi & corum qui illi placuere imagines venerandas non esse. And see also hereof Cedrenus in compendio histor. Xenayas and the denial of voluntary poverty and monastical profession in (e) Hierome contra Vigilantium prope finem saith, quod autem asseris eos melius facere qui utuntur rebus suis & paulatim fructus possessionum suarum pauperibus dividunt, quám illos qui possessionibus venundatis semel omnia largiuntur; non a me cis sed a Domino respondebitur si vis esse perfectus, vade & vend omnia quae habes & da Pauperibus & veni, sequere me. Ad eum loquitur qui vult esse perfectus etc. iste quem tu laudas, secundus & tertius gradus est, quem & nos recipimus dummodo seramus prima secundit & tertijs preferenda; nec á suo studuo monachi deterrendi sunt á te lingua ●●perea & morsu saevissimo, de quibus argumentaris & dicis, si omnes se clauserint & fuerint in solitudine, quis caelebrabit Ecclesias, etc. And see this plainly confessed by Crispinus in his book of the estate of the Church pag. 131. and 132. Vigilantius & others. (f) In like manner is januarius for this like Doctrine reproved by S. Austin serm. 49. ex diversis cap. 1. and Instus is for the same reproved by Gregory l. 4. dial. c. 55. And see further hereof Leo ep. 92. ad rusticum. And council. Chalcedon cap. 7. and Austin ep. 89. ad Hillarium and Chrisostom l. adversus vit●peratores vitae monasticae. The denial of the power of Priests to remit sins in the (g) See this hereafter Tract. 3. Sect. 1. in the margin at the letter x. novatians: The denial of free-will & of remission of sins and grace conferred in Baptism in the (h) Hierom in proaem. librorum adversus Pelagianos fine. saith, Manichaeorum est hominum damnare naturam, & liberum auferre arbitrium. & dei adiutorium: And see Hierom in explan. symb. ad damasum. And S. Austin de fide contra manich. c. 9 saith, Aduersus haec solita caecitate manichaei latr●nt, & cum convincuntur naturam non esse malum, sed in potestate esse hominis facere bené aut male, dicunt non esse animae liberam voluntatem, & non vident cae●tatem suam etc. & vide ibidem cap. 10. & in acts cum faelice manichaeo l. 2. cap. 4. And Chrisostom in john hom. 45. prope initium saith, Christ said to them, no man can come to me, except the Father who sent me draw him: Here at the Manichees do rise up contending by testimony of this scripture that we can do nothing of ourselves etc. But this taketh not away our free-will, but showeth that we need Gods help. And concerning the other point touching Baptism, Mr. Whitaker l. 10. contra Duraeum pa. 883. confesseth the same saying: Nos in Baptismo peccata remitti & gratiam conferri credimus ac docemus, quod negare soliti sunt Manichaei, ergo nos á Manichaeis alienisumus, & vide sarcerium loc. common. tom. 1. de Baptismo fol. 232. b. post medium. Manichees The denial of the necessity of children's Baptism in the (i) Innocentius in rescripto ad milevitanum concilium post med. saith of the Pelagians, illud vero quod vestra fraternitas eos asserit predicare, paruulos aeternae vitae praemijs absque Baptismatis gratia posse donari, perfatuum est: In like plain manner is this poine condemned in the Pelagians by S. Austin haer. 88 & contra jul. Pelag. l. 6. c. 7. & de pecc. mer. & rem. l. 2. c. 9 & 27. and by S. Leo. ep. 86. ad Episcopum Aquiliensem. pelagians The denial of the Blessed Sacraments reservation in the (k) Cirrill ad Calosyrium saith. I hear they say that the mystical blessing, If any remnants thereof do remain till the next day following is unprofitable to sanctification, but they are mad in so saying, for Christ is not made an other, neither shall his body be changed but the virtue of blessing and lively grace do always remain in it. This point is so plain and confessed that Peter Martyr) adversus Stephans Gardeneri librum de Eucharistia printed Basilea Anno 1581. object. 213. col. 838. post med. saith of this saying of Cirrill: Quod autem subijcitur Eucharistia reliquias asseruatas in chrastinum diem a sanctificatione non cessare, spectat opinor ad receptam quanaam consuetudinem. (etc.) ea consuetudo etsi saperet nonnihil superstitionis, tamen illi Cirrillus alique subscribebant: statim enim a temporibus Apostolorum paulatim caeptum est degenerar● ab illa veteri simplicitate divini cultus. Anthropomorphites The denial of the single & unmarried life of Priests in (l) Hierom contra Vigilantium c. 1. condemneth this doctrine in Vigilantius saying hereof against him. Quid faciunt Orientis Ecclesiae, quid aegipti & sedis Apostolica, quae aut virgines clericos accipiunt, aut continentes, aut si uxores habuerint mariti esse desinunt. Vigilantius, (m) See Hierom. l. 1. contra jovin. c. 19 & 14. & ad Pamahium apol. c. 8. jovinian and (n) Epiphanius haer. 59 ante med. saith. At dices mihi omnino in quibusdam locis, adhuc liberos gignere & Presbiteros & Diaconos & Hypodiaconos whereto he answereth) at hoc non est juxta Canonem, sed juxta hominum mentem etc. And see Siritius in epist. ad Himerium Tarraconensim. c. 6. & 7. others. The denial of enjoined times of penance in the heretics called (o) Theodoret l. 4. haer. & fab. de Audianis. reproveth them saying deinde confessis etc. They give remission to such as are Confessed without prescribing time for Penance as the laws of the Church Command. Audianis: The denial of the diversity of merits in (p) Aug. de tempore serm. 191. saith, joviniani damnamus errorem, qui dicit nullam in futuromeritorum distantiam And Hierom l. 1. adversus jovin. c. 2. reproveth jovinian for that he taught that Marriage and Virginity were (Eiusdem Meriti) of equal merit, confessed by Pantaleon in Chronographia pag. 32. And S. Ambrose and others say against jovinian: Agrestis ululatus est etc. Promiscue velle omnia confundere etc. diversorumque gradus abrogare meritorum. hereof see further Concil. Tolense. & rescriptum Ambrosij ibidem & aliorum ad Siritium prope initium. Jovinian: The denial of the Commandments being possible in certain other (q) Hierom in explanat. symb. ad Damasum saith, Execramur Blasphemiam eorum qui dicunt impossibile aliquid hominia Deo praeceptum esse etc. And the same words hath Austin, de tempore serm. 191. & vide Hieronimum ad Cleantium and Concil. 2. Arausican Can. 25. heretics of those times. The denial of Exorcism and Exufflation used in Baptism was condemned likewise in (r) Aug. de nuptijs & concupiscentia l. 2. c. 29. saith, julianus Antiquissimam Ecclesiae traditionem n●sario crimine aspergit, qua Exorcizantur, & ut dixi exufflantur Paruuli: & vide Aug. ibidem l. 2. c. 17. & contra julian. Pelag. l. 6. c. 2. julianus the pelagian: And lastly (to omit sundry other) The denial of the Churches continuing visible, was condemned in the (s) Aug. epist. 170. ad Severinum saith, facile tibi est attendere & videre civitatem supra montem constitutan de qua Dominus ait in evangelio, quod abscondi non possit ipsa est enim Ecclesia Catholica, unde Catholice Graece appellatur quod per totum orbem terrarum diffunditur, hanc ignorare nulli licet, ideo secundum verbum Domini abs●ondi non potest: & vide Aug. de unit. Eccles. c. 12. & 13. & ep. 48. ad Vincentium Rogatianum. Donatists, and (t) Hieromini d●al. a●u. Luciserianos paulo post medium & cap. 6. Prosecuteth this point at large: saying, (among much other matter) ubi sunt isti nimium prophani qui pluris sinagogas asserunt quam Ecclesias etc. si Ecclesiam non habet Christus, aut si in sardinia tantum habet nimium pauper factas est etc. (And then he answereth their objection saying) Quod si de illa quae in evangelio scripta est sententia sibi blandiuntur, Putas ne cum venerit filius hominis inveniet fidem super terram, sciant il●●m fidem nominari. de qua Dominus alebat fides tua te saluum fecit. Luciferin●s and all this done by the sundry writers that lived in or next before the foresaid 160. years now in question. And which is most, not so much as any one Catholic Father of the said times being known, to have but defended or excused any one of the said persons so condemned in their denial of any one of our foresaid recited several Doctrines. Secondly we do hereunto add in further demonstration that whereas on the one part our learned adversaries are not able to show, that any of the Catholic writers of those foresaid 160. years did note or charge the then bishops of Rome with Innovation or change of faith, so again we on the contrary are able to give particular proof, how that the Catholic Fathers of those same times, (u) In those times was Leo the first bishop of Rome beginning Anno. 440. & continuing POPE 21. years. (Teste Anastasio. de vitis Rom. pontific.) of the Communion which other bishops of that age professed to have with him: Read Leo Epist. 39 & 41. c. 1. And the Epistle of Theodoret (a Grecian) to Leo and see the century writers Centur. 5. c. 7. Col. 774. circa & posi med. & col. 775. initio & vide council. Chalced. act 1. 2. & 3. Hillarius was bishop of Rome Anno 461. of the like Communion of faith had with him: Vide Epistolas Tarraconensium Episcoporum ad Hillarium in 1. tom. council. Felix the third was bishop of Rome Anno 483. of the like Communion professed towards him: Vide Epistolam Anastasij Patriarchae Hierosol. ad faelicem Papam: Horm●sda was Pope Anno 514. and continued so about 9 years: Of the like Communion had with him: Vide johannem Patriacham Constantinop. in Epist. ad Hormisdam, in 1. tom. council. inter Epistolas Hormisdae. & vide ibidem rescriptum Hormisdae ad Episcopos Betica provinciae: & Epistolam Iustini Imperatoris ad Hormisdam. & Epistolam possessoris episcopi ad Horm sdam. & vide conc●lium habit: in epiro ad Hormisdam. extat apud Baromium Boniface the second was Pope Anno 530. of the like Communion had with him: Vide Epistolam Eulalij Carthaginensis ad Bonifacium secundum: & vide Centur. 6. c. 10. col. 670. Siluërius was Pope Anno 535. of like Communion had with him: Vide Epistolam Amatoris episcopi ad Siluerium: And see Liberatus in breviario cap. 22. Vigilius was Pope Anno 537. of like Communion had with him: Vide Epistolam Eutychij Patriachae Constantinop. ad Vigilium, & Epistolam synod. mopsuestan. ad Vigilium: Also the 2. Council called Turonense Anno. 570 can. 21. and the 1. Council of Brach c. 22. & 23. Anno 572. professed like Communion with the Roman sea. Gregorius primus was Pope Anno 590. of like Communion had with him: Vide Epistolam johannis Episcopi ravennatensis ad Gregorium inter Epistolas Gregorij l. 2. indict. 11. ep. 55. & Isidorum in Praefact. in Opus conciliorum & vide Centur. 6. col. 677. 678. 679. & 687. line 4. 5. 6. etc. This Gregory was Pope within two years or less of the last year now in question: and of the times next (x) The bishops of Rome in the times next precedent were, Innocentius Zozimus, B●niface, and Celesi●nus, of the Communion had with Innocentius Vide Epistolam Chrisostomi ad Innocentium, & Palladium in vita Chrisostomi, & vide Epistolam Concilij mil●uitant ad Innocentium, & Epistolam Concilij Carthag. ad Innocentium: And concerning the other three bishops of Rome, see heretofore page 40. in the margin at the letter c. fine. & vide Epistolam Civilli Alexandrini ad Caelestinum. A little before them was Pope Damasus of the Communion had with him read Hierom. Epist. 57 ad Damasum: And see the further Communion had between Damasus and the Greek and Latin Fathers specially reported and confessed by Crispinus in his book of the state of the Church page 137. before, and after (y) Concerning the reverend estimation had of the Roman sea in the times next after the foresaid 160. years, it is generally confessed: yet for more certainty read the century writers Cent. 7. c. 10. and how reverently this our Nation of England thought as then thereof: Vide Bedam in hist.. l. 2. c. 8. etc. 10. etc. 17. & 18. & 19 the same, professed to reverence and join in Communion of faith with the than Roman bishops: whereby also it is (in our opinion) most evidently yet further proved, that during all that mean time of the foresaid 160. years, the bishops of the Roman Church did not come to the profession of our now religion, by means of any their then devised Innovation or change in faith. Thirdly this point is as yet made furthermore demonstrative in that it is evident and by our learned adversaries confessed, that sundry even of the chiefest Articles of our faith, as namely (z) See heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 3. subdivision 2. Real presence: (a) See heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 2. subdivision 3. and hereafter in the margin at the letter 1. Tract. 3. Sect. 1. Sacrifice: (b) See heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 3. subdevision 5. Free-will: (c) Ibidem Tract. 1. Sect. 3. subdivision 6. & 7. Merit of works: (d) Confessed by Mr. Bilson in his dooke of the full redemption of mankind pa. 188. fine. By Danaeus contra Bellarmine pag. 176. Paulo post medium. By Mr. Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 9 pag. 773. initio. And by johannes Lascitius in the book entitled, de Russorum, Mascovitarum, & Tartarorum religione page 122. initio. And see heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 3. subdivision 4. Limbus Patrum: (e) Heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 3. subdivision. 4. And see also heretofore Tract. 2. Sect. 7. subdivision. 6. Prayer for the dead: (f) Heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 3. subdivision 7. And see the Centu●ie writers Centur. 3. col. 84. line 23. & Centur. 3. col. 83. line 47 & Centur. 4. col 1183. & Centur. 5. col. 1009. initio. And Mr. Fulke against the Remishe testament fol. 443. a. paulo ante med. And against Purgatory pag. 310. ante med. Prayer to Saints: (g) Hereafter Tract. 2. c. 1. Sect. 3. l. q. r. s. monachism: (h) Heretofore Tract. 2. Sect. 3. initio. And hereafter Tract. 2. c. 1. Sect. 3. l. p. Vowed Chastity: (i) Heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 7. example 1. & 2. & 5. And heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 3. subdivision 10. Popish Primacy: (2) See heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 3. subdivision 8. The grace and necessity of Baptism: (3) Vide ibidem. The Ceremonies of Baptism: (4) Vide ibidem subdivision 9 And see also heretofore Tract. 1. Sect. 7. in the margin at the letter c. Confession of sins and absolution: (k) Heretofore Sect. 7. example 3. The unmarried life of Priests: (l) Confessed by I●bbertus de Principijs Christian. dogm. l. 2. c. 10 p. 675. ante med. & 678. fine. & 674. prope finem. And by Mr. Whitaker de sacra scriptura pag. 678. paulo posi med. & 668. fine. & 690. post med. & 670. post med. And by Carthwright in Mr. Whitgittes defence etc. pag. 103. ante med. & heretofore tract. 1. sect. 3. subdivision 11. & 12. Unwritten Traditions, And (to omit many other) (⁋) Hereafter tract. 2. c. 1. Sect. 3. most of our (m) See heretofore tract. 1. sect. 3. l. y. Dionysius mentioning six of our Sacraments. Sacraments are plainly found to have been professed and publicly taught in the writings yet extant of sundry (*) See hereafter Tract. 2. c. 1. Sect. 3. of the confessed Doctrines believed and taught in the fourth hundredth years after Christ. ancient Fathers who lived before the foresaid 160 years now in question; In so much that Mr. john Napeire (though our great adversary) affirmeth and confesseth the like answerable continuance of our religion before that foresaid mean time of 160. years: Affirming to that end most plainly, that from (n) Mr. Nappier upon the revelations proposition 37. pag. 68 post. med. the year of Christ 319. (which was before the said time now in question) the Antichristiane and Papistical Re●gne hath begun reining universally, and without any debatable Contradiction 1260 years last passed: And that from (o) Mr. Nappeir ibidem in c. 12. pag. 161. col. 3. circa medium. the year of Christ 316. God hath withdrawn his visible Church from open assemblies to the hearts of particular godly men etc. During the space of 1260. years: (p) Mr. Nappeir ibidem in c. 11. pag. 145. col. 3. fin●. The Pope and his Clergy having possessed the outward visible Church of Christians even 1260. years: (q) Vide ibidem p. 191. initio. The true Church abiding (so long) Latente (r) Vide ibidem p. 161. col. 3. circa medium & pag. 156. ante med. & 237. paulo post med. & 23. fine. and invisible with (which his opinion or computation (s) Mr. Brocard upon the revelations fol. 110. a. & 123. b. Mr. Brocard also professeth to agree, whereby it is more than evident that our religion being thus publicly professed in the Roman Church both before and e●er since the foresaid 160. years, could not therefore be any matter of Innovation of change, newly brought in or devised by the Roman Church either then or afterwards: Which point is also made as yet otherwise more manifest, by that which hath been heretofore confessed by our adversaries, concerning the conversion (2) See heretofore Tract. 2. Sect. 1 in the marg. at the letter d. and in the text at the letter c. and ibidem l. f. g. of us Englishmen unto our now professed Catholic faith by S. Austin then sent from Gregory bishop of Rome. Concerning also the undoubted conversion of the (3) See heretofore Tract. 2. Sect. 2. l. m. and in the marg. there at the letter m. Britons of Wales in the Apostles times, and their perseverance (4) See heretofore Tract 1. Sect 2. in the margin there at this mark ¶. in that faith till Augustine's coming. And the foresaid evident (5) hereof see heretofore Tract 1. Sect. 2. l. 1. y. z. agreement of Austin and of the Brittones of Wales in all substantial points of faith: So plainly is that faith which the Roman Church now professeth, the very same, whereto the Romans were converted in the Apostles times. A thing so evidently true, that our adversary M. Bunny (though using all wariness to acknowledge or utter more then of necessity he must) confesseth yet (as enforced) and saith of the whole time since the Apostles to this present, that (¶) See Mr. Bunny in his treatise tending to pacification Sect 14. circa med. pa. 89. the Church of Rome hath ever continued after a sort in the profession of the faith, since the time that by the Apostles it was delivered to them etc. and hath also in some manner preserved and hitherto maintained both the word and the sacraments that Christ himself did leave unto us, which surely (saith he) is a very special blessing of God, an evident work of the holy Ghost. etc. And thus much briefly whether that the Roman Church professing the right faith in the Apostles times, hath at any time since ever altered or changed the same, against our foresaid discourse whereof grounded upon several truths confessed even by our adversaries if any bolder forehead shall wilfully oppose itself & shall without other answer or respect had to that which his learned brethren have heretofore confessed, and we otherwise proved, leap over all the foresaid proofs and ages jumping per saltum up to the Apostles, & then tell us, (*) So Mr. Whitaker. l 7: Contra Duraeum pa. 478: ante medium saith, Nobis sufficit ex Pontificiorum dogmatum & scripturarum collatione discrimen & dissimilitàdinē●gnoscere: historicis liberum relinquimus scribere quid v● lint: that howsoever we prove from histories & Fathers or other testimony of their own writers, concerning every of the ages since the Apostles times, yet the scriptures themselves are (in his (¶) Hereof see hereafter Tract 2. c. 1. Sect. 1. initio in the margin at the letter p. and 〈◊〉 q. opinion) contrary in many points to that faith which the Roman Church now professeth and that therein therefore she hath changed the faith which was first to her delivered: Besides, that this is a most needy and miserable begging of the thing in question, against which we do vehemently contest, (as being more than persuaded that our adversaries cannot truly allege from the first of Genesis to the last of the Revelations, so much as any one text of scripture, which maketh with them and against us.) Let that man & all other of his mind yet also further consider, that for so much as the sacred SCRIPTURES themselves, do as (before (t) See heretofore Tract: 1. Sect. 8. l. n. o. and hereafter Tract. 2. c. 2. Sect 1. prope initium. affirm that the Churches true Pastors must evermore continue and withstand all innovation of false doctrine even with open reprehension. The answerable performance whereof in particular being matter of fact, can be to us at this day, no otherwise made known, then upon the only credit of human testimony commended to us by history, (u) Mr. Whitaker Contra Duraeum l. 7. page 472. saith, Quicquid de Ecclesiae Propagatione, Amplitudine, gloria veteres Prophetae predixerunt id perfectum esse historia Luculentissime testatur, ita vatic inijs Prophetarum, Ecclesiasticam historiam suffragari nulla controversia est: the force of which testimony our very adversaries acknowledge (*) Mr. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical Policy l. 2. p. 115. initio saith, The strength of man's authority is affirmatively such, that the weightest affairs in the world depend thereupon: And ibidem pag. 116. ante medium: Whatsoever we believe concerning salvation by Christ, although the scripture be therein, the ground of our belief, yet is man's authority the key that openeth the door etc. The scripture could not teach us these things, unless we believed men: etc.: And ibidem l. 1. page 86. ante medium: Of things necessary the very chiefest is to know what books we are bound to esteem holy, which point is confessed impossible for the scripture itself to teach: And l. 2. Sect. 4. page 102. fine. for if any one book of scripture did give testimony to all, yet still that scripture which giveth credit to the rest would require an other scripture to give credit unto it, neither could we ever come to any pause whereon to rest our assurance unless besides scripture there were some thing which might assure us. etc. upon which ground l. 3. Sect. 8. page 146. fine. he saith, We all know that the first outward motive leading men so to esteem of the scripture, is the authority of God's Church: And Mr. Whitaker adversus Stapletonum l. 2. c. 4. page 298. post med, saith: non nego traditionem Ecclesiasticam esse argumentum quo argui & convinci possit qui libri sunt canonici, qui non: (And ibidem page 300. ante medium) Hoc semper dixi sensique & vide ibidem l. 1. page 25. ante medium. And in his book against Mr. William rainold page 44. circa med. In so much as the Protestant author of the treatise of the scripture and the Church (so greatly commended by Bullinger in his preface before that book) doth (after the English translation thereof cap. 15: page 72:) say we could not believe the gospel, were it not that the Church taught us and witnessed, that this Doctrine was delivered by the Apostles: And see further there cap. 19 page 74. & 75. that therefore the same SCRIPTURES do therein most evidently perforce reduce them to this foresaid trial by history and Fathers: whereto if they stand, their overthrow (they see) is certain, and in refusing the same, their flight is shameful. As for the further extremest boldness of such, who are in these straits (resolved not to acknowledge the (⁋) johannes Regius in libro apologetico etc. page 192. post medium: and 193. being urged to show wherein the Roman Church changed her faith, and not able to give any one particular example thereof, betaketh himself to this extreemest boldness. answering page 193. post medium: Sed denique licet verum esset, Romanam Ecclesiam, in sua religione nihil mutasse, an propterea mox sequetur eam esse veram Ecclesiam? Non opinor: In defence whereof he is not ashamed to allege sundry impertinent reasons unworthy of rehearsal. Roman Church to be a true Church, though it were true, that she had not changed any thing in religion. We pass the same over as being most absurd, and much more worthy of contempt then answer. THE SECOND TRACT FIRST CHAPTER. SECT. 1. THAT CHRIST'S CHURCH WAS BY the Predictions of the Prophets foretold to become universal and to convert with great increase the Kings and Nations of the Gentiles. AND for so much (most GRACIOUS SOVEREIGN) as it hath been the course of certain our adversaries (under the pretence of only scripture (to under take liberty of rejecting all our former confessed proofs drawn from the authority of Miracles, (though never so true & of Fathers though never so ancient) and so thereby in the end, making themselves and every of their vulgar followers, judges (p) Luberius in libro de principijs christian. dogm. l. 6. c. 13. page 563. ant● med. saith. Omnes publicos judices) ut interpretando errare posse ostendimus, ita in iudicando errare posse asserimus; privati judices sun● singuli fideles, high etiam habent potestatem iudicand● de doctrinis & interpretationibus. And page 573. paulo ante med. he further saith. Deus dedit cui. libet fideli non tantum spiritum intellige●di, sed ●●tiam spiritum discer●end● falsam doctrinam á vera. And Mr. Bilson in his true difference between Christian subjection and unchristian rebellion. part. 2 page 353. saith: The people must discern who teacheth right before they believe. and again afterwards, the people must be discerners and judges of that which is taught. And the same power judicandi & decidendi etc. Of judging and deciding doctrine of religion, is no less fully given add unumquemqué privatum hominem to every private man, by Brentius in Prologomenis contra Petrum. a Soto & in confession Witebergica cap. de sacra scriptura. both of scripture, and of all interpreters: Finally to restrain all things to that only framed sense of scripture, which they themselves (q) Zanchius de sacra scriptura page 412. initio. saith: concerning interpreters: Eatenus illorum interpretationes amplectamur, quatenus videmus allatas juxta analogiam fidei, & ex. alijs erutas esse scriptures. And Mr. Whitaker de sacra scriptura: page 529 post med. saith of the unlearned, debent illi alios se peritiores adire, Doctorum interpretum Commentarios consulere etc. sed videndum interim est ne nimium illis tribu●mus etc. Sed caute semper atque ita ut nostram interim libertatem retineamus. And Mr. Carthwrite in mr. Whitegiftes defence etc. page 111. paulo post med. alloweth calvin's judgement, yet with this cautel. So far (saith he) as we can esteem, that, that which M. calvin saith doth agree with the canonical scriptures. upon their conferring of places can collect for true. Pleaseth it your HIGHNESS so much to afford us your PRINCELY patience, as that we may (in further manifestation of the equity of this our most humble Petition) yield to them though thus far for the time and thereupon (following them in their own course) briefly allege from that confessed sense of scripture which even themselves and their followers do generally acknowledge, but two special points (amongst many other) which are most clearly available to us in this behalf. The first is concerning the Churches continuing Catholic or universal after her f●rst increase and the predictions of the Prophets affirming the same; to which purpose Esay foretelling (r) See the marginal notes of the English Bible 1576 in Esay 60. verse vlt. that the Church should be miraculously multiplied: saith. (s) Esay 60, 22. a little one shal-become as a thousand, and a small one as a strong nation. whereto our saviours like saying agreeth: (t) Marc. 4, 31. and see the marginal notes of the English Bible in Daniel 2. verse 45. and speaking of (v) See the marginal notes of the English Bible of 1576 in Esay c. 2. verse 2. at the letter a. and ibidem at the letter c. the restoration of the Church of Christ and the enlargement thereof. Esay foretelleth likewise, that all Nations (x) Esay. 2, 2. shall flow to it: and yet further concerning (y) See in the English Bibles the contents of the 60. chapter of Esay. the Gentiles coming to the Church in abundance (z) Esay. 60, 5. thou shalt see and shine, thy heart shallbe astonished and enlarged, because the multitude of the sea shallbe converted to thee: (a) Esay. 60, 9 the Isles shall wait for the (b) Esay 60 10, 11. & vide Psalm. 102, 15. & Esay. 62, 2. their Kings shall minister to thee: and thy gates shallbe continually open, neither day nor night shall they be shut, that men may bri g to thou the riches of the Gentiles. And that their KINGS may be brought: (c) Esay. 60, 16. Thou shalt suck the milk of the Gentiles & the breasts of Kings: (d) Esay. 49, 23. and see the marginal notes of the English Bible of 1576 in Esa. 49, 23 Kings shall be thy nursing Fathers & Queens thy mothers: (*) Psalm. 2, 8. I will give thee the heathen for thy inheritance, and the end of the earth for thy possession: In like manner it is said in the person of the Church (e) Esay 49, 20. The place is strait for me give room that I may inhabit: And again to the Church: (f) Esay 54, 2, 3: And see the Contents of the English Bible upon that Chapter. Enlarge the place of thy tents, spread out thy Curtains of thy habitation for thou shalt increase on the right hand, and on the left, thy seed shall possess the Gentiles and inhabit the desolate City: And lastly it is foretell concerning the Church's (g) Esay. 62, 6. watchmen: or (h) See the marginal notes of the english Bible in Esay 62, 6. Pastors that (i) Esay 62, 6. they shall not be silent or wanting, but daily (k) Hieremie 33, 18, 21, 22. and that this is meant of Christ's Church see in the English Bible of 1576 the contents of this chapter, and the marginal notes ibidem in ver 16. multiplied to minister to him not with interrupted seasons, but continually, (l) Esay 66, 21, 23. and that this is meant of the Pastors of Christ's Church see the marginal notes of the said english Bible ibidem. even from mouth to mouth, and from saboth to Sabbath: And that albeit all other monarchies had end, (as the Assyrians, Persians, Macedonians, and Romans: yet (m) Daniel. 2, 44. this Kingdom should not be given over to an other people (or altered as they were:) But should stand for ever as (n) Esay 60, 15, 16. an external glory and joy, from generation to generation; and that the covenant (made of the premises unto Christ's Church) should (o) Psalm. 89, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34. not be broken for any transgression committed by her children but should most assuredly be fulfilled: (p) Hierom. 33, 20, 21, 25. referred to Christ's Church by the contents upon that Chaper in the. English Bible of Anno 1576. according to which confessed sense of the Catholic dispersion, & continuance of Christ's Church, her Kings and Pastors. Occolampadius saith upon jeremy (q) Oecolampadius in Hieremiam cap. 33. God speaks here of the Eternity of Christ's kingdom etc. He shall have Kings and Priests and that for ever, and not a few, but as the stars of heaven, etc. for their multitude: In so much as that grave and learned man the L. archbishop of Canterbury teacheth likewise that (r) Mr. Whitgifte in his defence etc. pa. 465. the Church of Christ is dispersed through the whole world. and cannot now (at any time) be shut up in one kingdom for that he termeth (s) Mr. Whitgift ubi supra. an impossibility: as also Mr. D. Whitaker saith of the fore-alleged scriptures (t) Mr. Whitaker in his answer to Mr. William rainold in the preface pag. 37. ante medium, And in his book contra Duraeum l. 7. page 472. he further saith, Quicquid de Ecclesia Propogatione amplitudine gloria, veteres prophetae praedixerunt, id perfactum esse Historia Luculentissime testatur, ●ta vaticinijs Prophetarum, Ecclesiasticam historiam suffragari nulla Controversia est. the promises of God concerning the largeness and beauty of his Church have been accomplished etc. with whom agreeth Mr. Henoche Clapham, saying, (u) Mr. Henoch Clapham in his sovereign remedy against schism page 23 circa med The Church was to enlarge her tents and stretch her cords universally through the earth, for which cause it is called Catholic. THAT THE SAME WAS NOT PERFORmed by Protestants during either the first or second 300. years after Christ § 2 TO examine now the accomplishment of these predictions, we will for the more plain understanding thereof divide the time of the Church's continuance into three several stations or (*) Of this division see the brief discourse of the Church's estate initio annexed to Crispinus his treatise of the state of the Church etc. Periods observed and mentioned by our very adversaries: The First which was from Christ till the Conversion of Constantine our first Christian Emperor, (which amounteth unto some 320. years:) The Second from thence until the time of Bonifacius tertius bishop of Rome Anno 607. (which wanted some thing of 300. years. And the Third from that time till Luther's first appearing, which was nine hund●eth years and above. 1 Concerning the First it is without question, that during all the time after Christ until Constantine's conversion, the true Church remained so under persecution, as that the foresaid amplitude and glory, foretell of her (concerning her great increase of believers and of Kings and Queens to serve her) was not as then fulfilled, to which purpose (if any question thereof were) the sayings (x) Mr. Barlowe in his defence of the articles of the Protestants religion pa. 34. post med. saith, In the primitive nonage of the Church this promise of kings allegiance thereunto, was not so fully accomplished, because in those days that prophesy of our Saviour was rather verified, you shallbe brought before Kings for my name's sake, by them to be persecuted even to death: the best of the Kings for a long time, reaching but King Agrippa his in modico a slender inclination to religion. And see S. Austin ep. 48. And see Mr. D. Fulke in his treatise against Stapleton and Martial. page 51. of our learned adversaries are very pregnante. 2 And for the Second it is likewise evident that during the 200. and odd years from Constantine's reign till the time of Boniface the third, there were few or rather almost no Kings that then professed the Christian faith, the Emperors of the East and West only excepted, and of those few, some revolted (as julian (y) See Mr. Cowpers Chronic. fol. 128. b. & 129. a. the Apostata, & sundry other) were (as Mr. Fulke (z) Mr. Fulke in his answer to a Counterfeit Catholic p. 15. fine. And in his rejoinder to D. Bristol pag. 375. observeth) Arians as Constantius, (a) Mr. Cowpers Chronic. ubi supra fol. 126. a. at Anno 340. Valens (b) Mr. Cowper ubi supra fol. 129. b. at Anno 368. & fol 131. a. at Anno 380. etc. And did for a great part of that small time, so grievously persecute (c) Luc. Osiander in Epitome. cent. 4. pa. 255. 256. etc. and p. 449. 451. & cent. 5. pag. 425 432. fine. And centur. 6. p. 91. fine. And see further hereof Carrion in Cronic. pag. 281. & 282. 283. 284. etc. the Catholic professors, that the Protestant writers doubt not to (d) Objected by Mr. Fenton Preacher of Gray Inn in his book against Alabaster the 4. motive p. 21. fine. & 22. initio. object the persecution and pancetie of Christians in those very times as a strong argument against the Church's universality: And therefore for such other Princes of those times, as were neither Apostates nor Arians, although they had been for number so many, and had also for current of ages so long continued as were answerable to fulfil the said predictions of the Protestants, (as it is most clear by the premises that they neither were, nor in so short a season possibly could be) it is yet at the least questionable that they were in religion not Protestants but Catholics, whereof even for the first and best of them namely Constantine our first Christian Emperor and the Church in that age (the example whereof. your MAJESTY (*) In the sum of the conference before his MAJESTY had with the bishops and other of his Clergy etc. pag. 69. post med. not unworthily seemeth to affect) sundry (and those not obscure) probabilities are remaining and confessed. THAT CONSTANTINE OUR FIRST Christian Emperor was not of the Protestants but of the Catholic Faith. § 3. FOR it is evident that Constantine (e) Euseb. de vita Constantini l. 3. c. 47. erected Temples in memory of Martyrs (f) Euseb. ibidem l. 4. c. 58. 59 dedicated a most sumptuous Church in memory of the Apostles. (g) Euseb. ibidem l. 4. c. 60. Provided his Sepulchre there to the end that after his death he might he made partaker of the prayers there offered. (h) Centur. Magdeburg centur. 4. col. 452. line 30. He celebrated the dedication of the Temple with a yearly festival day. He (i) Ibidem cent. 4. col. 497. line 50. caused Churches new builded to be consecrated, for service therein to be celebrated, in so much as (k) Zozomen hist. l. 1. c. 8. versus finem. He carried about with him a portable Tabernacle or Church, and Priests and Deacons attending it for celebration of the divine Mysteries. (l) Centur. 4. col. 497 line. 48. & col. 410. li. 7. He had lights in the Church in the day time. (m) Hierom contra Vigilantium ante med. saith, Constantinus Imperator sanctas Reliquias Andreae Lu●ae & Timothei transtulit Constantinopol in apud quas daemones rugiunt. He translated to Constantinople the holy Relics of St. Andrew, Luke, and Timothy. (n) Cent. 4. col. 457. line 58. & col. 458. under him in that age were Pilgrimages. (o) Cent. 4. col. 704. line 11, 21. In his time it was decreed by Council that Priests might not marry. (p) Cent. 4. col. 467. line 10. & Euseb. de vita Constantini l. 4. c. 28. & Zozomen hist. l. 1. c. 9 He honoured sacred Virgins professing perpetual chastity. (q) Cent. 4. col. 1294. line 50. 51. Under him were monks throughout Syria, Palestine, Bithynia, and the other places of Asia. (r) Cent. 4. col. 1306. line 19 20. Also throughout Africa. and (s) Sozomen hist.. l. 1. c. 13. initio. He greatly reverenced Anthony the Monk whose religious and austere life Protestants term (t) Osiander in Epitome. cent. 4. c. 2. p. 100 superstitious. (u) Euseb. de vita Constantini l. 3. c. 2. He signed himself with the sign ●f the Cross. (x) Zozomen hist. l. 1. c. 4. & 8. prope finem. And Euseb. in orat. de Laudi●u● Constantini ante med. saith, Imperator triumphale signum honorat: And Prudentius in apotheosi doth accordingly affirm this usage in the ancient Emperors, saying thereof Vexillumque Cruci● summus dominator adorat. And Szegedinus in his speculum pontificum pag. 229. saith, Crux honorari capit Constantini tempore. Honoured the same sign. Had affiance (y) Euseb. de vita constantini l. 2 c. 7. and success of victory in the virtue thereof. and (z) Euseb. ibid. l. 1. c. 25. & l. 2. c. 3. & l. 3. c. 48. erected it publicly He (a) Zozomen hist. l. 1. c. 9 post med. ordained that the decrees of Counsels should be kept firm and inviolable. (b) Euseb. ubi supra l. 3. c. 10. fine. And Theodoret hist. l 1. c. 7. circa med. And the century writers cent. 4. col. 460. line 31. He would not sit down at the Council of nice till the bishops had thereto given him their assent. He (c) Ambrose epist. 32. And Rufinus hist. l. 10 c. 2. And see this fully confessed and reported by Crispinus in his discourse of the state of the Church pa. 99 prope finem: where he thus writeth thereof. Constantine said, God hath ordained you B shopes and hath given you power to judge of your s●lues. By means whereof we yield ourselves to your judgement, men may not judge you but God alone: And ●n Zozomen hist. l. 1. c. 16. Constantine saith, Mihi vero non est fas cum homo sim, Eiusmod● tausaris cognitionem arrogare. would not undertake the judgement of Church causes but committed the same over to Bishops: (d) Cent. 4. col. 653. line 26. 27. He reproved A●esius the N●ua●ian for denying the power given Priests to remit sin. (e) Centur. 4. col. 454. line 26. & Euseb. de vita. Consian. l. 4. c. 71. After his death prayer was made for his soul: and (f) Euseb. ubi supra. the mystical sacrifice offered. And as concerning the Church's doctrine of that age, it was so evidently our now professed Catholic faith, that to omit all other particular proof, and what is by our other adversaries confessed (*) In the brief discourse of the Church's estate: etc. Annexed to Crispinus his book of the estate of the Church. it is affirmed how that about the e●l● of this period (which continued until Constantine) the love of solitude & Monckerie, the abstinence from marriage & from certain meats on particular days, many feasts and other seeds of superstition after succeeding took a marvelous root, so the Commencement of prayers for the dead and sacrifice of the Mass, did discover themselves: etc. in this behalf, the century writers of Magdeburge, (whose writings are by our English Protestant's affirmed to be (g) Mr. D. Hill in his defence of the article, Christ descended in to hell: fol. 23. b. post med. worthy of immortal memory do in their fourth century (by them dedicated to our late Sovereign Lady Queen Elizabeth) profess to (h) Col. 278. line 16. set down the peculiar supposed errors of the doctor of those times, and do charge them in particular (by collection from their own writings) with (i) Cent. 4. col. 291. free-will: (k) Cent. 4. col. 292. justification by works: (l) Cent. 4. col 293. merit of works: (m) Cent. 4. col. 425. l. 54. & col. 426. line 10. & col. 294. Confession of Sins: and Penance: with (2) Cent. 4. col. 425. line 60. absolution of such as had confessed. with affirming (3) Cent. 4. col. 1243 line 33. And see Caluin in institut l. 4. c. 19 sect. 17. Penance to be the second table after shipwreck. & error in (4) Cent. 4. col. 231. line 12 & col. 294. line 1. the doctrine of penance: with (n) Cent. 4. col. 295. line 58. & col. 296. 297. Invocation of saints, (o) Cent. 4. col. 304. line 42. 43. etc. Purgatory, (p) Cent. 4. col. 409. line 15. 25. Altars, (q) Cent. 4. col. 295. line 3. & 40. & col. 985. line 30. Transubstantiation, (r) Cent. 4. col. 456. 457. & 482. line 44. & col. 1250. line 45. translation of saints Relics: and their worship. (s) Cent. 4. col. 457. line 58. & col. 458. line 1. 2. 3. Pilgrimage to holy places. (t) Cent. 4. col. 470. line 20. Eremites, (u) Cent. 4. col 300. line 39 & col. 301. line 46. & col. 464 465. monks, their (x) Cent. 4. col. 464. line 59 & col. 301. line 28. 29. etc. voluntary poverty: their (y) Cent. 4. col. 471. l. 23. & col. 474. l. 10. 11. 22. 23. abstine ce from certain meat, & other austerity of life: their (z) Cent. 4. col 472. l 20. cowl, girdle, and other religious habits: their undoubted and great (*) Cent. 4. col. 493. l. 18. Miracles (a) Cent. 4. col. 301. l. 1. 2. 3. 54. & col. 706. l. 57 & col. 847. line 50. the Vowed chastity of Virgin's (b) Cent. 4. col. 467. l. 8. 9 etc. Monasteries of vowed Vi●gins. (c) Cent. 4. col. 495. l. 18. Rising in the night to prayer. also also with (d) Cent. 4. col. 302. line 9 10. 14. etc. And col. 495. line 30.31. And Mr. Fulke against Heskens Sanders etc. pag. 657. circa med. Affirmeth that Rufinus and Cirill had a superstitious estimation of the sign of the Cross: & that also by the report of Paulinus the Cross was by the bishop of Jerusalem brought forth at Easter (yearly) to be worshipped of the people: And Danaeus in prime partis altera part, ad Bellarminum 5. controu. respons. pag. 1415. initio. Affirmeth that Paulinus Cirrill and sundry other Fathers were plainly superstitious & blinded with this enchantment of the Crosses adoration. attributing to much the sign of the Cross: with (e) Cent. 4. col. 417. 418. 419. Abrenunciation, ANNOILING, threefould Immersion. And sundry other like Ceremonies used in Baptism: with (¶) Cent. 4. col. 415. line 25. Baptism of lay persons in case of necessity: with (⁋) Cent. 4. col. 1160. line 53. & col. 1●43. line 39 Remission of sins (not signified but) given in Baptism: with (f) Cent. 4. col. 415. line 44. Consecration of the water of Baptism, with teaching that (g) Cent. 4. col 303. line 18. & col. 704. line 11, 21. & col. 1293. line 5. & 17. Priests might not marry: that (h) Cent. 4. col. 303. line 10. & col. 847. line 47. & col. 1293. line 25. Bigamus (or he that hath been twice married) may not be Priest: also with Consecration of religious (i) Cent. 4. col. 874. line. 11. women: and their religious habit: with (k) Cent. 4. col. 873. fine & col. 874. initio. Deacons, Subdeacons, Acolites, Exorcists, Readers, Dorekeepers: and the special rites used in making of them. with (5) Cent. 4. col. 497. line 50. Sumptuous Church●s consecrated, and superstitious insolency in celebration. Of the Mass● appointed to be said in no places but such as were hallowed by a Bishop: with affirming (6) Cent. 4. col. 555. line 30. & col. 557. l. 45. & col. 558. line 54. & 1250. line 2. the Church to be built upon Peter. and f●rther teaching (7) Centur. 4. col 551. l. 31. & col. 556. line 15. & 1074. line 13. Peter's ●●macie. And lastly even with sundry noted examples of (8) Centur. 4. col. 549. line 39 & col. 550. line 26. & col. 551. line 36. & col. 529. li●e 20. Primacy in the bishop of Rome. In so much as certain Protestants doubt not to deal plainly with us herein, affirming that Helen mother to Constantine was (l) Centur. 4. col. 458 line 5. a superstitious woman: and the visible Church in his time (m) Mr. john Nappeir upon the revelations pag. 68 post medium. Antichristian, and papistical. Whereupon we doubt not in behalf of our religion to say now to our adversaries. as did your MAJESTY (most religiously) to the Puritans in defence of the Cross in Baptism used in Constantine's time, (¶) In the sum of the Conference before his MAJESTY had with the bishops and other of his Clergy page 69. post med. Is it now comen to that pass, that we shall appeach Constantine of superstition, if then it were used, I see no reason, but that still we may continue it. So clear it is by the premises, that the foresaid predictions of the Prophets were not accomplished by the Church which continued the 300 years next after Constantine, and that though we should admit they were, it was that Church not protestant but Catholic. THAT AFTER THE SECOND 300. years after Christ the foresaid predictions were not performed by the Protestants Church and were accomplished by the Catholic Church. Sect. 4. NOw for the third, namely the whole residue of time from Bonifacius the third till Luther which contain the last 100 years in which (for that time) the predictions of the Prophets concerning the Church's increase, and continuance of Kings and Pastors, were most evidently fulfilled: that the same were not yet during that time fulfilled, (otherwise then in and by our (*) The century writers mention the Conversion of sundry Nations wrought since the time of Gregory the first, and Boniface the third by our Catholic Roman Church: as of Germany (cent. 8. c. 2 col. 20.) Of the Vandals (cent 9 c. 2. col. 15.) Of the Bulgarians, slavonians, Polonians, the Danes, and Moravianes. (cent. 9 c. 2. col. 18.) and of sundry Kings and Kingdoms (cent. 10. c. 2. col. 18, & 19) and of a great part of Hungary (centur. 11. c. 2. col. 27.) and of the Norueigians (centur. 12.) As also the Protestant writer Osiander in his Epitomes hist. Ecclesiasticae Centuriae. 9.10.11.12.13.14. & 15. mentioneth the like Conversion of sundry Nations performed by our Catholic Church since the times of Gregory and Boniface. As namely of the Danes page 16. initio & 94. fine. the Moravians. (p. 16. fine.) the Polonians: (p. 36. circa med.) the slavonians. (p. 36. circa med: & 16. post med.) the camphors: (p. 36. post med.) the Huns. (p. 37. initio.) the Normanes: (pag. 72. post med.) the Bohemianes: (pag. 77: fine) the Suecians: (pa. 21. circa med. & 90. post medium.) The Noruegianes: Livonians, and saxons: (pag. 86. circa medium.) Tee Vagarians pag. 104. circa med. The Rugij Thuscanes pag. 99 post med. of Scandia (p. 111. circa med.) Maior●a (p. 341. circa med.) of Tunes in Africa: (p. 377. fine.) & of sundry other Nations: (p. 342. ante med. Whereunto might be added sundry other like testimonies mentioned by Osiander in his Epitome cent. 7. pa. 73. & 168. & cent. 8. pa. 48. 112. 121. & 127. and the like known conversion of sundry Nations wrought in this age in the East Indies, the West Indies and Africa confessed by our adversary Simon Lithus in respons. Altera ad Alteram gretsert apol●giam p. 331. where he saith, jesuitarum seges etc. paucorum annorum spacio etc. non contenta europae finibus, Asiam, Aphricam, Americam suis idolis complevit. A thing so evidently performed only by our Catholic Church, that Mr. Wintaker answering thereunto (l. de Ecclesia contra Bellarminum p. 336. ante med. saith, Respondes illas Conuersiones tam multarum gentium post tempora Gregorij, de quibus hic Bellarminus loquitur non puras & integras fuisse, sed corrupta●: And Danaeus in respons. ad disput. Bellarmini part. 1. pa. 780. fine, answereth thereto in like manner saying, Propogatio autem illa quam Gregorius primus, Conon, Zacha ●●s & al● Gr●gori● secerunt s●it i●●riatio meretricis m●n facta, de qua est apoc. 17. versie. 4. & 18. vers●●. 3. As concerning examples to be given of Protestants converting he●then Nations, we find one only endeavour of the Caluinists labouring to preach to the Indians, but their labour took no effect, as is confessed by their Francis●●● G●narum in s●●culo verae Ecclesiae page 161. fine. & 168. post med. And see further thereof Villagag. con. Caluin. and Epistolae judicae. Catholic Church) is in itself so certain, and withal so evidently confessed by our learned adversaries, as that we will not seek for other proof thereof. To this end one of them affirmeth that Anno (n) See Simon de Voyon his discourse upon the Catallog. of Doctors etc. in the epistle there to the reader post medium. 605. when Pope Boniface was Stalled in his Papal throne, than falsehood got the victory etc. then was the whole world overwhelmed in the dregs of Antichristian filthiness, abominable superstitions, and traditions of the Pope. Then was that universal apostasy from the saith foretold by Paul. To this end likewise saith Mr, Parkins: (o) Mr. Parkins in his exposition upon the Creed page 400. We say that before the days of Luther for many hundredth years an universal apostasy overspread the whole face of the earth, and that our Church was not then visible to the world: and that (p) Mr. Parkins ubi supra page 370. during the space of nine hundredth years the popish heresy hath spread itself over the whole earth: In so much that whereas it is (2) Heretofore tract. 2 c. 2. sect. 2. & 3. heretofore confessed as evident, that the foresaid predictions of the Prophets concerning the conversion of so many foretold Kings and kingdoms of the Gentiles, neither were nor could be fulfilled during the 600. years next after Christ & before Boniface the third. And where also we have given particular (3) See this heretofore in the beginning of this section, in the margin at this mark. *) instance of the more evident and clear accomplishment thereof begun afterwards and continued at & after the foresaid times of Gregory and Boniface, with most plentiful and answerable success in so many Kingdoms before mentioned. Our adversaries are not now abashed,) an opinion most dreadful to be heard, or thought of) that where the foresaid predictions of the Prophets take their chiefest beginning increase and continuance in regard of the Churches answerable accomplished enlargement, they doubt not even then and there to place the very contrary defection of Antichrist. Mr. Whittaker to that end (is before) affirming (4) See Mr. Whitaker alleged ibidem. the Conversion of so many Nations after the times of Gregory to have been not pure but corrupt: Daneus also terming it in●briatio meretricis mundo facta de qua est Apoc. 17, vers. 4. & 18. (5) See Danaeus his words alleged ibidem. Turning so most evidently the Churches most glorious foretold enlargement by the answerable conversion of so many heathen Kings and kingdoms fulfilled but since the times of Gregory and Boniface into their pretended (6) See before in this Section at. n. o. p. universal Apostasy wrought by Antichrist. (7) Hieremie 2, 12. O ye Heavens be astonished at this: Be afraid and utterly confounded. Are they Christians who dare thus affirm the Churches foretell enlargement to be Antichristian? Is this the end or issue of our adversaries Doctrine (8) Math. 13, 9 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. But to omit the like further testimony herein of Mr. D. Fulke: (*) Mr. D. Fulke in his treatise against Stapelton & Martial p. 25. paulo post med. acknowledgeth that Some (Protestants) have written that the Pope hath blinded the world these many hundredth years, some say a 1000 years, some 1200 some 900. etc. Mr. john Napeire affirmeth yet more fully both concerning this time and the other former 300. years next after Constantine, that (q) Mr. Napeire in his treatise upon the revelations pa. 43. versus finem. the Pope's kingdom hath had power over all Christians from the time of Pope Silvester and the Emperor Constantine for these 1260. years: and that (r) Mr. Napeire ubi supra p. 145. colum. 3. fine. From the time of Constantine till these our days even 1260. years, the Pope and his Clergy hath possessed the outward visible Church of Christians (s) Mr. Napeire ubi supra pa. 68 versus finem. Reigning universally and without any debateable contradiction 1260. years: (t) Ibidem p. 191. initio. Gods true Church most certainly abiding so long Latent and (u) Ibidem pag. 161. col. 3 circa med. & pa. 156. ante med. & 237. paulo post med. & 23. fine. invisible: with whom agreeth M. Brocard: (x) Brocarde upon the revelations fol. 110. a. & fol. 123. b. And Mr. Napeire doubteth not to proceed yet much further, affirming that also (y) Napeire ubi supra p. 191. initio. during even the second and 3. ages (after Christ) the true Temple of God and l●ght of the gospel was obscured by the Roman Antichrist himself: But Sebastianus Francus reacheth the very point, and doubteth not to comprehend all the foresaid ages since the Apostles times, affirming that, Statim post Apostolos etc. (z) Sebastianus Francus in Epistola de Abrogandis in universum omnibus statutis Ecclesiasticis. And Mr. Fulke in his answer to a Counterfeit Catholic pag. 35. post medium saith, The true Church decayed immediately after the Apostles times. Presently after the Apostles time, all things were turned upside down etc. And that f●r ●ertaine through the work of Antichrist: the external Church together with the faith and sacraments vanished away presently after the Apostles departure, and that for th●s● thousand four hundredth years the Church hath been no where external and visible: So far hath the Protestants Church hitherto been (even by their own testimonies) from fulfilling the foresaid foretell Conversion, of so many KINGS and kingdoms of the Gentiles. THAT THE KNOWN DEFECT THEREOF in the Protestants Church advantageth the jews against them, made Sebastian Castalio doubtful of his faith and David Georgian Apostata. §. 5. THESE things (most Gracious SOVEREIGN) being thus explained and confessed, we do here as now insist, and most humbly appeal unto your majesties Learned and equal judgement between our adversaries and us concerning the accomplishment of the foresaid predictions, whether that the same may be said to have been hitherto performed by our Catholic or their Protestant Church Here have we often knocked at the doors of their hearts, demanding but with what probability they can (before Luther's time) make good that which the scriptures foretell (as Oecolampadius and themselves understand) concerning the (a) Oecolampadius allegeth before Tract. 2. Sect. 1. letter q. eternity of Christ's Kingdom, & the multitude of Kings to serve it: and which be those many Kings and Kingdoms of the Gentiles which their Church hath in all that mean time accordingly converted from heathenish Paganism to the faith of Christ, or how can their Church but be said (accordingly as the scriptures (2) The glory of this last house shallbe greater than the first Aggeus 2, 10. the desolate hath more Children than the married wife (Esay 54, 1. & Galat. 4, 27. He is mediator of a better testament which is established upon better promises (haebr. 8, 6.) and Oecolampadius (3) Oecolampadius in Esay c. 2. vers. 2. saith, Great is the dignity of the Christian Church above the synagogue of the jews, in that it shallbe most populous, and of all Nations sundry shall join themselves unto it abundantly. from them teach, that the true Church ought to excel the Synagogue of the jews: but so much as since the coming of the Messias (which was the appointed time of the synagogues decay and the Christians Churches increase) considering that it is heretofore fully (4) See heretofore tracked 2. c. 1. sect. 4. confessed, and hereafter (5) See hereafter tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 2. 3. 4. 5. 7. 10. further proved, that for the thousand years last before Luther, their Church hath continued unknown Latente and invisible etc. whereas on the other part it appeareth (by sufficient authority of histories in all times) that the jews during all those ages, and ever since Christ's time, have had their Synagogues (though under some kind of restraint) yet dispersed known (6) Peter Martyr in his common places in English part. 2. pag. 599. b. initio saith hereof. The jews as yet continue, and are kept in so great adversities, in so diveres and grievous captivity and dispersion, they hold still their religion, doubtless no ancient Troyans', Lombard's, Huns or Vandalles, have so held still their own etc. & could show their original and history set forth in most true writing, and being every where dispersed as they were could nevertheless keep their own ordinances which for so much as it continueth among the jews, is undoubtedly a singular work of God etc. If now then Gods work be such in the dispersed & reprobate jews after the time of their synagogues decay, shall it not much the rather be more glorious in his Church of the new testament, which according to Paul haebr. 8, 6. Is established in better promises? Then ever was the other of the jews ever before the dissolution and end thereof? And see Peter Martyr ubi supra pa. 328. b. fine & 329. a initio. & visible in the most notable provinces of the world, as Greece, Italy, Spain, France, Germany, England, etc. And therefore here also again we do submit to your majesties learned judgement, whether we or they be the men, that can against the objections in this kind of the doubtful and misbelieving jews, maintain that before Luther's time, the foresaid predictions of their Prophets have been fulfilled, and so consequently that our Saviour is the true Messias, which falleth necessarily into great danger of further doubt with them, if so many of their Prophecies as went of the Messias and his Church, have for so many ages before Luther been left unaccomplished. Neither may the scandal or scruple hence arising be a stumbling block only to the jews, but such as hath also distracted certain of our learned adversaries: To allege some few examples thereof (and withal to omit the straits and labyrinths into which certain principal Protestant (b) Caluin in Daniel c. 2. vers. 44. and Luther tom. 7. printed at Witteberg Anno 1557 lib. de judaeis etc. writers have been driven in their disputation had of this matter against the jews) Sebastian Castalio professor at Basill (*) Osiander in Epitome. histor. Eccles. cent. 16. pa, 753. initio calleth him, Sebastianus castalio vir apprime doctus, Caluinista tamen: Linguarum peritissimus etc. And Pantalion in his Chronographia p. 125. placeth him there in his catalogue of the Fathers and lights of the Church, saying further that for such, Guilielmus Farellus, Petrus Viretus & Sebastian Castalio agnoscuntur a very learned Caluinist, and highly (c) Castalio commended by D. Humphrey de rat. interpret. l. 1. pa. 62. 63. and 189. And by Gesnerus in bibliotheca Sebastian castal: And by Fridericus Furius alleged in Sebast. Castal. defence. suarum translat. pag. 236. commended by D. Humphrey and others,) having recited sundry of the foresaid Prophecies concerning the conversion of Kings, and the Church's foresaid happy estate and continuance, and looking to the accomplishment thereof, writeth thus perplexedly thereof to our late Sovereign Lord King Edward the sixth. (d) Sebastian Castalio in his preface of the great Latin Bible dedicated to King Edward the sixth saith, Equidem aut haec futura fatendum est, aut tam fuisse, aut Deus accusandus mendacij: quod si quis fuisse dicit, quaeram ex eo quando fuerint, si dicet tempore Apostolorum, quaeram cur nec undiquaque perfecta fuerit, & tam cito Exoleverit dei cognitio ac pietas, que & aeterna & marinis vndi● abundantior fuerat promiss. Verily we must confess either that these things shall be performed hereafter, or have been already, or that God is to be accused of lying: If any man answer that they have been performed, I will demand of him when? If he say in the Apostles time, I will demand how it chanceth, that neither then the knowledge of God was altogether perfect, and after in so short space vanished away which was promised to be aeternal and more abundant than the floods of the sea? So plainly doth he more than insinuate this perilous scruple, (and which is most dangerous) withal leaveth the same not explained or answered but perplexed and doubtful, saying yet further thereof, (e) Castalio ubi supra saith Quo magis libr●s sacr●● considero, eo minus hactenus praestitum video vtcunque●ra ●●la ●lla intelligas. the more I do peruse the scriptures, the less do I find the same performed howsoever you understand the said Prophecies. But much more grievous is the example hereof in David George the hollander, who for many years continued at Basill professing there the Protestants religion, and by them well esteemed of till in the end he became a most blasphemous Apostata: and affirming our Saviour to be a Seducer, drew secretly many to his opinion, the principal motive of his revolt, being, that: (f) Historia Georgij Davidis printed at Antwerp 1568. in Octavo the Divines of Basill published his history. Si Christi & Apostolorum doctrina vera & perfecta fuisset etc. If the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles had been true & perfect, the Church which they planted etc. should have continued etc. But now it is manifest that Antichrist hath subverted the doctrine of the Apostles. and the Church by them begun, as is evident in the papacy, therefore the doctrine of the Apostles was false and imperfect. Thus far that wretched Apostata. By which two foresaid examples of Castalio and David Ge●rge, and other the premises is fully discovered not only the not fulfilling of the foresaid Predictions in the Protestants Church, but also the dangerous sequel which thence ensueth against their whole Church and religion in general. A CONFUTATION OF THE Protestant's objections and answers concerning their Churches not accomplishment of the said predictions. Sect. 6. AND we may not here dissemble but refer like wise unto your majesties grave judgement, the colours, rather than answers wherewith certain our adversaries do (in these straits) seek to uphold themselves and their Church, 1 First some would enforce that the universality which is foretold of the Church, was to be accomplished but after (g) The Author of the book entitled Antichristus sive Prognostica finis mundi pag. 12. fine saith, spiritus qui annunciat futura non operatur nisi eunte evangelio, quod sub finem ex confesso Lutherus primus invexit: And pag. 13. post medium. he further saith, Non manifestatur autem perseudoprophetarum surrectio: nisi evangelio: quod inde a primativo Apostolorum evangelio ante Lutherum, ut diximus nunquam ivit, ne quis autem Hussiticum evangelium pertinere huc putet, id prohibet quod Christus illud evangelium edicit quod sub finem per universum orbem esset iturum: porro Hussiticum evangelium Bohemis tantum venit, signo ergo esse non potest, nam commune orbis evangelium signo esse voluit, non illud unius gentis: Lutheri evangelium per orbem volat tam voce, tam praelo. Luther's gospel preached which long intermission till Luther's time, as it implieth a manifest breach of God's foresaid (*) Hereof see heretofore Tract. 2. c. 1. Sect. 1. l. 0. covenant: which foreshoweth and assureth the Church's increase and prosperous continuance thereof, and is directly against the opinion of the most learned (h) Mr. Whitaker in his book Contra Duraeum l. 7. pag. 472. saith, Quicquid de Ecclesiae propagatione, amplitudine, gloria veteres Prophetae praedixerunt, id perfectum esse historia Luculentissime testatur etc. Protestants who affirm that the foresaid predictions have been heretofore performed. And is also otherwise not answerable to the event since Luther's time, for not so much as any one King or Kingdom of the Gentills is yet hitherto converted from paganism by Luther or any of his followers: So likewise Christian hearts may hardly endure to think that we have for so many ages before Luther, wanted weapons in this behalf against the jews, or that God hath during the youth & middle time of his Church suspended his foresaid promises of her happy conversion of Kings and Nations to serve her, and is but now to fulfil the same in her (¶) In hac mundi senecta post tenebras lucem evangelii exorir: & pr●lucere voluit Deus. So say the Protestant Divines apud Osiandrum Centur. 16. page 872. post medium. declining and decrepit age. 2 Secondly others in steed of answer do object that the Apostle foretelleth (⁋) 2. Thess. 2, 3. a falling away: In discharge whereof it is manifest, first that there is nothing in this place to prove that the said falling away should continue for so many hundred years as are before pretended: Secondly we say that this falling away is (as the Fathers understand) not of the Church, whereof (*) Gloriosa dicta sunt de te Civitas Dei. psalm. 86, 3. glorious things are foretold, but of (i) Ambros. in hunc locum. & Tertul. de resurrect. carnis. & Aug. de civit. dei l. 20. c. 19 & Hierom. qu. 11. ad algasiam. the Roman Empire, which did then (k) 2. Thess. 2, 7. hold or flourish, and yet in the end must (*) See Dresserus in millenar 5. pa. 92. fine & 93. initio. fall away, and that not in part. but as the text there saith, must (l) 2. Thess. 2, 7. be taken away: which to refer to the Church, were as Mr. Witaker himself confesseth (m) Mr. Whitaker against Mr. William raynold in his answer to the preface pag. 33. saith: We believe that Christ's Church shall never fail, & we account it a profane heresy to teach that Christ's Catholic Church hath perished from the earth at any time, for this assertion soaketh the foundation of all faith: a profane heresy. 3 Thirdly they do furthermore yet (in am of answer) object with Mr. D. Fulke, that S. john foretelleth that (by reason of Antichrists persecution (n) Revelat. 12, 6. objected thus by Mr. Fulke in his answer to a Counterfeit Catholic pa. 16. ante medium. the woman must flee into wilderness there to remain a long season. Whereunto we likewise say, first that the same scripture witnesseth that (*) Renelat. 20, 2, 3. the old Serpent Satan was bound for a thousand years that he should no more deceive the Nations till the thousand years were ended: and not loosed (¶) Revelat. 20, 7. Mr. Willet in his Sinopsis pa. 160. post med. thinketh these 1000 years to have ended Anno Do●ni 1294. Mr. Fox in apoc. c. 11. pag. 245. circa medium, thinketh then to have ended Anno Domini 1300. And vide ibidem pa. 346. fine & 347 fine And see Hospianus in historia sacramentaria l. 4. c. 2. p. 295. ante med. & in Epist dedicatoria antemed. And Bullenger upon the Apo●●lipps s●rm. 87. fol. 267. b. fine. Affirmeth hereupon that the gospel's was preached not ●n ●●●●r-m●●ker, but most manifest, not short & pin●●ed, ●●at p●●bshed by 〈◊〉 space of a thousand yeare●, and received not of a few, but of all Nations: etc. till then. Which number though it be perhaps incertain as signifying more years, yet fewer it cannot signify. and therefore our adversaries in placing Antichrists appearing and forecing of the Church to fly into wilderness, so many ages within the first thou sand years after Christ, do therein affirm against manifest scripture, and the judgement (¶) For it is affirmed & collected from the scriptures, that Antichrist is yet to come by Wicelius in libro de singularitate Antichristi: by Hierome Zanchius in epist. Pauli ad Philip. Collos. & Thes. page 245. a. and by Franciscus Lambertus whom Bullenger upon the apocalypse serm. 62. fol. 202. b. post med. commendeth for a most godly and excellent learned man: of whose judgement that Antichrist is not yet come, see the book entitled Antichristus siu● prognostica finis mundi, printed at Basill. page 74. & 75. & 79. aunt medium And concerning the like opinion of other Protestants see Mr. Dove in his sermon of the second coming of Christ etc. versus finem where he saith: Some Protestants being overmuch modest make a doubt whether Antichrist be yet revealed or not. And see Mr. Fox act. mon. (printed 1576.) page 739. b. prope finem & printed Anno 1596. page 366. a. lin. 17 of their own brethren. Secondly we say that these foresaid words objected, there to remain a long season, being most material and inserted by Mr. D. Fulke, not as his own words, but as in the several print or letter of the scripture, are his own negligent (or else more faulty) addition, and therefore that there is nothing in the text to prove that this flight (though it were to have happened within the said thousand years) should against so many foresaid Prophecies continue for so lorge a season: as either of these last 1300. or 900. years, but only as the text saith, modico tempore for (o) Revelat. 12, 12. & 17, 10. & 20.3. Mr. Fox in Apoc. c. 11. page 239. versus finem saith hereof: Neque enim fieri potest ut longum tempus codem modico tempore figuretur, modico enim tempore, modicum tempus designatur: to which end he allegeth there Franciscus Lambertus and David Chitraeus. & vide pag. 347. fine & 348. and see Fr. du. jon. upon the revelations c. 20. page 257. & 258. a short time namely (p) Revelat. 12, 6. for a thousand two hundredth and sixty days: or as it is explained in other terms, for (q) Daniel. 12, 7. & revelat. 12, 14. a time, two times, and half a time: or as it is yet further explained for (r) revelat. 11, 2. & 13, 5. two and forty months: all which aswell by ordinary computation (s) Mr. Dent in his ruin of Rome, or exposition upon the revelation page 134. as also by exposition of the Fathers, (t) Aug. de Civitat. Dei lib. 20. c. 23. & Hi●rom. in Daniel. c. 7. & Cirrill Catech. 25 & Ireneus lib. 5. fine. and others. in so much as Mr. Fox in Apocalipsin. page 345. post medium saith hereof. Docti sanctique hic interprete, plerique fere omnes quos hactenus videre contigit, nihil hic certi statuunt, nisi quod tempus, tempora, & dimidium temporis ad tres duntaxit annos & semialterum restringunt. & vide ibidem page 362. prope finem. and of that learned Protestant Hierom Zanchius (v) Zanchius in epistolas Pauli ad Philip. Collos. & Thessaly. page 245. a. do amount but unto three years and a half: during which time the height of Antichrists persecution is in their opinion hereby foretell to rage: Thirdly we further say that other Protestant writers (who dislike this exposition of three years and a half: and would enforce a longer term as namely Mr. Ford, (x) Mr. Ford in Apoc. c. 13. vers. 5. page 97. ante med. saith. Menses isti 42. designant paululum id temporis quod Diabulo concessumerat supra c. 12, 12. videl. tempus gravissimae illius persecutionis quae duravit ad Constantinum magnum, supputandi sunt enim prorsus sicut sanctissimus pater joannes Foxus accepit, nempe per sabatha annorum, quomodo menses 42 efficiunt annos 294. quibus ex vicesimo anno imperij Constantini (qui idem fuit Annus Christi 329.) subductis, Constabit Prophetiam istam statim post mortem Christi incepisse. and Mr. Fox, do understand by every month a Saboth of years affirming so by the 42. months to be meant. 294. years and that by their opinion those 294. years begun in the first persecutions of the primitive Church, and so ended about the end of the first 300. years after Christ: which their exposition as it altogether maketh with us, strengthening our former assertion of the not fulfilling (during that time of the foresaid predictions concerning the Churches happy enlargement, so likewise it leaveth our adversaries wholly as before chargeable, to answer for the fulfilling thereof in the ages succeeding. And thus much breistly to show to your MAJESTY 1 First That according to that confessed sense of scripture which Protestants themselves acknowledge, (y) Mr. Fox in Apoc. page 346. fine & 365 aunt med. expresseth his like judgement affirming page 365 that this exposition was delivered to him as it were by revelation, arcano quodam admonitionis sibilo, sive voce tamen etc. and with this exposition agreeth Mr. Downham in his treatise concerning Antich●ist c. 8. page 77 fine: the Church of Christ was foretold to continue after her first increase wonderfully enlarged with conversion of many KINGS and Kingdoms of the Gentiles. 2 Secondly, that it is likewise confessed that many Kings and Nations of the Gentiles have continually since the conversion of CONSTANTINE our first Christian Emperor till Luther been accordingly converted (*) Hereof see heretofore tract. 2. c. 1 sect. 4. in the margin there in the beginning at this mark (*) by our Catholic Church, & that our Church hath in that estate continued and flourished, as Mr. Napire confesseth for these 1260. years Reining universally etc. 3 Thirdly that by like confession of Protestants, their Church hath been so far from performing the like, that as themselves acknowledge, she hath most certainly for so l●nge remained Latent and invisible: A scruple so evident that Castalio thereupon fell to doubtful speeches of our Christian faith, and David George to plain Apostasy THE SECOND CHAPTER THAT THE TRUE CHURCH MU have her Pastors, administration of the word and Sacraments evermore to continue. SECT. 1. THE second point which we intent to offer to your MAJESTY from that confessed sense of scripture which Protestants acknowledge, is touching the Churches continued and visible administration of the Word and Sacraments, which our Saviour hath ordained to serve as the necessary appointed ordinary means of our salvation: for albeit that God was able to call, justify, and confirm the elect without any mediate means, yet hath he not as (calvin confesseth) (¶) See Caluin. institut. l. 4. c. 1. sect 5. initio. determined to accomplish the same, otherwise then in and by the ministery of his Church. To begin therefore with the administration of the Word, the Apostle teacheth. .1. First that Christ hath placed in his CHURCH, (z) Ephes. 4, 11 12, 13. Pastors and Doctors to continue to the consummation of saints, till we all meet in the unity of faith, even as our adversaries do hereupon expound) for ever: (a) Doctor Fulk against the Rhemishe Testament in Ephes. 4. sect 4. fol. 335 a. inition. And Caluin. in institut. Printed Geneva. 1550. c. 8. de fide sect 37 38. page 233. 234. Melancthon. loc. commun. aedit. 1561. c. de Ecclesia And hence it is that they affirm, that (b) Caluin. ubi supra the Church can never want Pastors and Doctors. and which is more, that (c) Mr. Fulke against Heskins, Sanders etc. pa. 539 prope finem. Christ will suffer no particular Church to continue without a servant to oversee it: and that (d) Mr. Fulke ibid. pag. 536 paulo post med. And mr. Spark in his answer to mr. john d' Albines p. 11. prope initium saith accordingly. The Church of Christ hath always had and shall have to the end successively in all ages in one place or other, such as have showed the truth faithfully unto others, as have shined as lights in their days set upon a Candlestick. Pastors and Doctors must be in the Church till the end of the world: (even) from (e) Mr. Fulke ibid. page 569 initio. Christ's time till Luther's age. In the like assertion whereof the other Protestant writers (f) The Confession of Helvetia cited in the harmony of Confessions pag 337. and Bertram de loque. in his discourse of the Church p. 79. are plentiful. 2. Secondly that these Pastors must not be silent, the holy ghost testifieth, foretelling of the Church's (g) Esa. 62, 6. Watchmen or Pastors. (h) The marginal notes of the English Bible 1576. in Esa. 62, 6. that they shall not (i) Esa. 62, 6. be silent. But even as the Apostle saith. (k) Rom. 10, 14. How shall they believe whom they have not heard, and h●w shall they hear without a Preacher. So our adversaries do accordingly hold concerning preachers, that (as Mr. Fulke saith) (l) Mr. ●ulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic p. 100 initio. truth cannot be continued in the world but by their ministry. That therefore (m) Propositions and principles disputed in the university of Geneva pag. 245. circa med. the ministry is an essential mark of the true Church: that also as Mr. Deering faith (n) Mr. Deering in his reading upon the epistles to the Hebrues ca 3. lectur. 15. post initium. Salvation springeth in preaching of the gospel, and is shut up again with the ceasing of it. and that (o) Ibid. c. 3. lectur. 16 fine. take away preaching, you take away faith: for which he citeth many scriptures. 3. Thirdly our adversaries do yet further confess, and the nature of the thing proveth it, (for otherwise they were no true Pastors) that these Church's Pastors (at the least some of them) shall (p) Mr. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic page 11 initio & 92 aunt med. always resist all false opinion) even with open reprehension: and that (q) Mr. Deering ubi supra in c. 2. vers. 12. lect 10 circa med. etc. 3 lect. 12. fine. the religion being of God, no fear of man shall keep them back, because as Mr. Deering saith hereof) (r) m. Deering ibid. that were to keep the honour of God for corners and solitary places: for as the Apostle prescribeth (*) Rom. 10, 10. with th● heart a man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confesseth to salvation. Concerning now the continued administration of Sacraments. 1. First the scriptures affirm, that we are thereby to (s) 1. Cor. 11, 26. show the Lords death till he come. 2. Secondly our puritan adversaries do acknowledge, and accordingly teach, that there must be (t) Beza in his sermons upon the Canticles englished page 79. & 80. Pastors and Doctors to the end of the world for the administration of the Word and Sacraments: that therefore (v) Mr. Bancroft in the survey of the holy pretended discipline page 440 post medium. the ministry of the word and Sacraments are in absolute degree of necessity to salvation. with whom our other Protestant adversaries do agree: Mr. Whitaker saying to this end of the administration of the Word and Sacraments, that (x) Mr. Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 3. pag. 249 ante med. saith. S● adsunt Ecclesiam constituunt & tollunt, si auferantur. being present they do constitute a Church, and being absent do subvert it. and Mr. D. Wil●et likewise saith of them: (y) Mr. Willet in his synopsis page 71 fine. these marks cannot be absent from the Church, and it is no longer a true Church than it hath these marks: for as he further saith (z) Mr. Willet ubi supra page 69 finc. the only absence of them doth make a nulletie of the Church: with whom herein the Lutherans also (a) Lobechius a Lutheran Doctor and public Professor in the university of Rostoche in disput. theologic. pag. 213. sect. 44. affirmeth of these and of the Church, that tam areto & indistolubili nexu inter se copulata sunt, ut in coetu vocatorum, alterum sine altero esse non possit, & negato uno, alterum quoque negare necesse sit. do agree. 3. Thirdly our adversaries do yet further hereupon affirm of these, that (b) Mr Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 3. page 260. saith. Sunt Ecclesiae proprietates essentiales. And see mr. Whitgifte in his defence etc. page 81. ante med. and see m. D. Covell in his examination etc. page 21. ante med. & page 5. fine. they are essential notes of the Church: and that (c) Hiperius in method. theolog. page 548 ante med. & page 532. prope finem. And Amandus Pol●nus in partition. theolog. page 304. ante med. these notes are needful to distinguish the true Church from the false, that men careful of their salvation may know where the true Church is and to which company chiefly th●y aught to adjoin themselves. And th●t therefore the Church militant is in some sort evermore to remain, not poor or slender in paucetie of professors, but rich and plentiful: (*) Caelius secundus Curio writ a whole book hereof, entitled de amplitudine regni Dei. wherein read him lib. 1. page 1. 5. 14. 24. & l. 2. page 135. 148 167 183 232 233 243 246. etc. And he answereth the common objections urged to the contrary l. 1 page 96. 97 100 106 108 115 117 120 128 131. neither obscure or latent but like to (¶) Math. 5, 15. & Esa. 2, 2. Concerning the answerable exposition of which texts see D. Humphrey hereafter page 84. in the margin under the letter. e. And S. Austin tom. 6. contra faustum. Manich. l. 13. c. 13. saith Propter hos enim motus paruulo●um qui possint seduci ab hominibus, a manifestatione claritatis Ecclesiae, Dominus quoque providens ait, non potest Civitas abscondi supra montem constituta. And tom. 7. contra litter. Petil. l. 2. c. 32. he further saith. Hinc fit ut Ecclesia vera neminem lateat, unde est illud, quod in evangelio ipse dicit, non potest Civitas abscondi supra montem constituta: ideoque in eodem psalmo connectitur, In sole posuit tabernaculum suum, id est in manifestation. a City placed upon a hill that cannot be hid, known and (d) Bartholomeus Keckermanus in sistem. theolog. page 408. initio saith. Novi testam. Ecclesiae, ratione notarum & formae externae semper debet esse sensibilis, seu conspicua, ut nimirum reliquae gentes quae adhuc extra Ecclesiam sunt, scire possint cuinam Ecclesiae sese debeant agregare, id quod de ecclesia novi testam. Esa c. 61. ab initio magnificis verbis predixit. And Hiperius in method. theolog. page 552. prope finem, saith: Profectò nisi signa haec extarent, ac vera ecclesia sensibus deprehenderetur, qui scire possit homo cumam caetui salutis consequendae ergô adherendum sioi foret. And Peter Martyr in his epist●es annexed to his common places in English page 153. a. circa medium: reporting certain points wherein he professeth to agree with us Catholics saith: We also do not appoint an invisible Church, but do define Congregations, unto which the faithful may know that they may safely adjoin themselves. affirming further a little there before, that this opinion is (saith he) Common with us to Catholics. conspicuous: a truth so evident that they doubt not thereupon to affirm and teach out of the scriptures (e) Mr. Henoch Clapham in his sovereign remedy against schism. p. 18. after many proofs alleged by him from the scriptures, and otherwise concludeth, saying. Not only all ancients ever hold the Churches ever visibility, but also all learned men of our age: In like full manner is the Church's visibility affirmed from the scriptures as well by Melancthon in loc. common. edit. 1561. c. de Ecclesia, & in prefat. lib. corp. doctrinae Christianae in Ecclesijs Saxon. & mismicis electoris Saxon. impress. Lipsiae Anno 1561. And in Concil. theolog. part. 1. page 512. & part. 2. pag. 201. & 394. As also by D. Humphrey in jesuitismi part. 2. rat. 3. page 240. where he saith: Declaratum est nos Ecclesiam non in aere ollocare sed in terra, nos Ecclesiam confiteri esse opidum supra montem positum, quod abscondi non p●test. Math. 5. montem excelsum domus Dei cunctis collibus editiorem, ad quem omnes gentes confluent. Esa. 2. etc. Cur ergo anxie & curiose probant quod est a nobis nunquam negatum? etc. (And ibidem page 241. initio. he saith) Visibilis est propter exercitia pietatis, quae videntur ab omnibus in Ecclesia, nam dum ministri docent, alij discunt, illi sacramenta administrant, hij communicant. etc. qui ista non videt talpa est caecior, visibilis est quia notae sunt insignes & conspicuae etc. and page 242. initio. he saith, non enim clancularij se●essus etc. convocationes sunt Christianae. and page 281 fine he affirmeth concerning the Church militant (which is the only point in question) ●portere Ecclesiam esse conspicuam, conclusionem esse clarissimam. the Churches ever visibility: condemning the contrary opinion of the Church's pretended latency or invisibility, for a monstrous (f) Melancthon in Concil. theolog. part. 2. saith: necesse est fateri esse visibilem Ecclesiam etc. quo spectat haec portentosa oratio qua negat esse ullam visibilem Ecclesiam. page 393. fine. & 394 initio. assertion & (g) Mr. Henoch Clapham in his sovereign remedy against schism page 17 ante medium saith. Contrary to all scriptures they do affirm that there hath been no visibility of the Church for former hundredth of years, whi●h position is against Psalm. 72, 3, 17. Esa. 59, 21. contrary to all scriptures: against which our Saviour did (as they think) specially forewarn us, saying: (2) Math. 24, 23. whereupon mr. H●noch Clapham in his sovereign remedy against schism page 23. post med. saith. Our Saviour forbides going out unto such desert and corner gospels. Math. 24, 23, 24, 26. and S. Austin tom. 4. quaest. evang. l. 1. quaest. 38. saith, accordingly: Constituta ergo authoritate Ecclesiae per orbem terrarum clara atque manifesta, consequenter discipulos admonet & qui in eum credere volverint, ne schismaticis atque hereticis credant: unumquodque enim schisma & unaquaeque heresis aut locum suum habet in orb terrarum partem aliquam retinens, aut obscuris atque occultis conventiculis curiositatem hominum decipit: Ad quod pertinet quod ait, si quis vobis dixerit, Ecce hic est Christus aut illic, quod significat terrarum parts & Provinciarum. Aut in penetralibus aut in deserto, quod significat obscura & occulta conventicula haereticorum. etc. And see him further contra Faustum Manich. l. 13. c. 13. If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold he is in the desert, go you not forth: Behold he is in secret places believe it not. In so much as they also affirm the visible dispersion thereof even for that (3) Revelat. 12, 12, & 17, 10. & 20, 3. short time during which she is foretold (4) Revelat. 12, 6. to flee into wilderness by reason of Antichrists persecution: to which end Mr. Fulke (though most precise in this behalf) is yet enforced to confess, that (5) Mr. Doct. Fulke against the Rhemishe Testament in 2. Thessa. 2. sect. 5. fol. 354. b. fine. the true Church th●●gh obscure and driven into wilderness by Antichrist, yet still continued dispersed over the world, and that (6) Mr. Fulke ibid. fol. 355. a. initio. to this like effect see Mr. Whitaker in his answer to master rainold preface pag. 34 & 37. mr. Fox in Apoc. page 349. post medium in the time of Antichrist it was not driven into any corner of the world, but was, is, and shall be always dispersed in many nations: and that not obscure, but (as Bullenger saith) (*) Bullenger upon the apocalypse fol. 200. a. fine. & b. initio. see the words of Bullenger hereafter in the margin at the figure 3. tract. 2. c. 2 sect 11. right famous: which point the text itself doth also most invincibly argue: for as it affirmeth that the woman's flight into wilderness must continue (7) Revelat. 12, 6 1260 days: so likewise it affirmeth that the preaching of the Word, must as then continue in like manner during even the same term of 1260. days: (8) Revelat. 11, 3. and must so be as general as the persecution: a matter so undoubted, that Szegedine saith hereupon, (9) Szegedinus in tabul. Analatic. page 368 circa medium. the ministers of God's word shall preach all the time in which Antichrist shall tread under foot the holy City. And Mr. Gifford saith likewise, (10) Mr. Gifford upon the revelations serm. 21. page 191. fine. these two witnesses are not to be taken for two and no more, but for all those which were raised up to impugn Antichrist: and that they should prophecy during all the time of Antichrists reign. In like testimony whereof, the other (11) See Mr. Fulke against the Rhemishe Testament fol. 475. b. sect. 4. and Bullenger upon the Apocalipes in c. 11. fol. 142. b. post medium. Protestant writers are very plentiful. THAT PROTESTANTS TO PROVE THE answerable performance thereof (for former ages) in their Church do allege promiscuously both Catholics & known Heretics as members of their Church. SECT. 2. THIS continued & visible administration of the Word & Sacraments, being the confessed sense of the scriptures, and without which the true Church cannot be, we will now examine somewhat concerning the answerable performance thereof: In which point when we provoke our adversaries, there is nothing more usual with them, than (for their own defence in this behalf) to search out in the examples of former times, for all such whatsoever, as may be said (though often falsely) in any sort to have impugned the Pope, but so much as in any one point either of manners or doctrine: And although they were otherwise never so different from Protestant's, yet are they (in these straits) promiscuously registered by our adversaries in the Catallog. of the Doctors of their Church. In this sort are named (*) See hereafter tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 7. in the margin there at the figure 2. concerning joannes de Rupe Scissa, and Willm. de S. Amore: and see concerning Peter Bloix (claimed by Mr. Gabriel powel in his consideration etc. pa. 52. initio.) Osiander incentur. 12. page 281. post med. where he saith: Petrus Blesensis etc. Pricipum Prelatorum religiosorum & privatorum peccata graviter arguit. etc. non tamen Pontificios errores refutavit was this man then a Protestant? joannes de rupe Scissa Willielmus de S. Amore, and Peter Bloix. for thei● only reproving the life & manners of the Clergy, for this only cause also are named (¶) Concerning Willm. Occam read act. mon. printed 1596. page 358. a sin. 88 & b. line 40. and of Scotus see Fox ibid. page 130. b. line 8. & Osiander cent. 9 page 44. and of joannes Gaudavensis read Fox ubi supra page 358. 2. line 88 William Occam, john Scotus, and john Gaudavensis. In like unjust manner is named (h) By Mr. Spark in his answer to Mr. john d' albine's page 64 prope finem And by Simon devoyon in his discourse upon the Catallog. of the Doctors of God's Church, in the table. number. 11. Alcuinus Archbishop of Canterbury, and scholar to S. Bede for his only opinion untruly pretended against the Real presence, the contrary whereof is by his own writings more than (i) Alcuinus in lib. de divinis officijs c. de Missa. saith: Consulens Deus infirmitati nost●ae, qui non solemus carnes crudas manducare, & sanguinem bibere, facit ut in pristina remaneant forma, duo illa munera, & est in veritate corpus Christi & sanguis. evident. So likewise do they name (k( Doctor Humphrey in jesuitismi part. 2. rat. 3. page 326. initio. And Simon devoyon ubi supra in the table number. 107. and claim S. Bede himself whom others of them do more truly and plainly reject, for a confessed Papist: even (l) Luke Osiander in epitome. cent. 8. page 58. initio. see this heretofore tract. 1. sect. 1. in the margin at the letter g. in all those articles wherein Protestants do at this day distent from the Pope. In like manner Peter Lumberd master of the sentences is by them sorted (m) Simon Pauli. in method. aliquot locorum doctrine. etc. tradit. Rostochij. fol. 12. b. in the Catallog of the Doctors and restorers of the heavenly doctrine, and (n) Simon Pauli ibid. fol. 15 b. and Hiperius in method. theolog. in praefat. page 1. fine & 2. cit●a & post medium. placed even with hus and Luther, who was so evidently a known Catholic, that Mr. Fox therefore termeth him (o) Acts and monuments page 41. b. circa medium. an Archpiller of papistry. We could give like example (*) Mr. Gifforde in his sermons upon the revelations page 195. post medium giveth instance in joannes Picus Earl of Mirandula. And Simon de Voyon in his discourse upon the Catallogue etc. page 126. post medium: nameth S. Bernard. And Mr. Fox in his Calendar placed in the beginning of his acts and monuments placeth Erasmus and Picus Mirandula and yet Erasmus (in whom they do more pretend) doth in lib. 16. ep. 11. excuse himself briefly and fully to the contrary: saying. Christum agnosco, Lutherum non agnosco, Ecclesiam Romanam agnosco. of S. Bernard, Erasmus, Picus Mirandula, & sundry other known Catholic writers, whom our adversaries do in like manner most injustly claim to be of their Church. And as with Catholics so likewise in this exigeme of need, are they constrained to make like claim to (p) Mr. Fox acts monu. page 70. a. ante medi. Almericus, the (q) Like claim is made to the Albigenses by mr. Spark against mr. john d' Albines. page 58. ante medium. by mr. Fulke contra Stapletonum, de successione Ecclesiae page 112. & 271 initio. And by Chrispinus in his book of the estate of the Church page 350 ante medium. But see plain testimony of the execrable errors of the Albigenses in Osiander Centur. 13. page 329. And in Cesarius, Cistert. 5. dist. dial. and Luxemb. haer Albig. See also hereafter tract. 2. c. 2 sect. 3. in the margin at the figure 2. Albigenses, and sundry other (*) Of like claim made to Peter Bruis, and the Henricianes or Apostolici: see Catallog. testium veritatis printed Anno 1597. tom. 2. page 561 & 562. confessed and known heretics. In divers of whom Mr. jewel (to omit others) (¶) See these other Protestants so disclaiming hereafter tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 3. in the margin at the letter o is enforced to disclaim, saying expressly of them: (r) Mr. jewel in his defence of the Apology page 48. And see certain of Almaricus his confessed errors mentioned hereafter tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 3. in the margin at the letter o. And by Chrispinus in his book of the estate of the Church page 349 post medium And see also thereof Cesarius lib. dial. d. 5. and Gaguinus lib. 6. franc. and Gerson tracked. 3. in Matt. and Paulus Amilus l. 6. hist. Galliae. and Genebrardus in Chron. Anno 1208. they are none of ours. In examination therefore of these & such other like known impertinent examples, we will not be so Idly tedious as to trouble your Majesty, but will make trial of those in whom our adversaries have greatest confidence, as namely, Waldo, Wicliff●, and hus, and in their several followers, and see if that these can uphold the Protestant Church's administration of the word and Sacraments, but so much as for those several ages in which they lived: in whom if our adversaries do fail, then remain they for any hope to be had of the other no less than desperate. THAT WALDO (WHO LIVED ANNO Domini 1220.) was no Protestant and that therefore the examples of Waldo and his followers is not sufficient to prove (but so much as for their times) a continuance of the Protestants Churches administration of the Word and Sacraments. SECT. 3. TO begin then with Waldo the Protestants administration of the word and sacraments is so little proved by his example to have been but so much as in being immediately before e and at the time of his first appearing, that (in cl●re proof to the contrary he (as Mr. Foxe testifieth) was then a Catholic lay-man (s) Act. mon. page 628. b. circa med. a rich merchant of Ly●n● and so (t) act. mon. pag. 628 b. paulo post medium. unlearned that he gave rewards to certain learned men to translate the holy Scriptures for him and certain other works of the Doctors: and being thus helped, did as Mr. Foxe reporteth (v) act. mon. ubi supra. confer the form of religion in his time to the infallible word of God: where upon saith Mr. Foxe (x) act. mon. page 41. b. paulo ante medium sprung up the Doctrine & name of t●ose which are called Waldenses: (y) act. mon. p. 628. b. ante medium. or (as he saith page 41. b. circa med. About Anno. 1160. Anno 1218. 2 Seacondlie he had no ordinary vocation or calling by man for our Catholic Church condemned him, and his proceed, and therefore would not, call him, and as for any other Church then being of his profession to call him, there was none (¶) See hereafter tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 3. at this mark (¶). at that time, so much as but in being or known to him. For which cause he and his followers contemned all calling, teaching that (*) Illiricus in Catal. testium page 730. 731. 732. 740. 745. And Osiander in epitome. histor. eccles. cent. 9.10.11 etc. page 287 fine & 440 Say men and women might Consecrate (the sacraments) and Preach. And as for any pretence of extraordina ie calling by God, (which every sectmaster may a●rogate) even as by the Protestants graver assertion, it had evermore when it was in use, (z) Amandus' Polanus in partition. theolog. l. 1. p. 308 saith: Ministrorum extraordinarié vocatorun etiam dona extraordinaria fuere, nempe Prophetiae, donum edendi miracula: etc. And Musculus loc. common. page 394. saith: Vocatio quae imediaté est a Christo, iam in usu non est, ut erat olim, habebat sua signa unde cognosci potuit, de quibus memenit Marcus evangelista. cap. vlt. dicens, predicaverunt etc. sequentibus signis etc. And mr. Henoch Clapham in his sovereign remedy against schism page 25. initio doth upon this ground reprehend Brown for that he did take upon him extraordinary calling, & wanted Miracles: and Luther in loc. comu. Clas. 4. c. 20. initio p. 38. post med. admonisheth to this end saying: Hoc explores an vocationem suam possint probare: neque enim Deus unquam aliquem misit nisi vel per Hominem vocatum, vel per signa declaratum, ne ipsum quidem filium. And Luther tom. 5. jen. Germ. fol. 491. a. b. saith: unde vetus? quis te misit etc. ubi sigilla quod ab hominibus missus sis? Vbi sunt miracula quae te a Deo missum esse testantur? Also Luther admonished the Senate of Milhouse against Muncer the Anabaptist saying: Si dicat se a Deo atque ipsius spiritu missum esse quemadmodum Apostoli: probet hoc signis & miraculis editis, vel nolite ferre ut concionetur, nam ubicunque Deus ordinariam viam mutare vult, ibi semper miracula facit: Luther tom. 2. jen. Germ. fol. 455. b. & 456. a. and hereof 〈◊〉 Sleydon lib. 3. An. 25. Also Sigwartus in his 23 disputationes theologic. etc. page 207 sect. 8. saith: Haec vocatio semper extraordinaria quaedam & divina dona comitantia habet quae sunt tanquam sigilla doctrinae etc. cuiusmodi fuerunt miracula etc. Miracles adjoined thereto in testimony that it was from God, (which were wanting in Waldo) So likewise as the learned Protestants themselves grant, it is now since the Apostles times (a) Musculus ubi supra and Lobechius in disput. theolog. page 358 fine & 359 initio. saith: Imediatam porrò vocationem cum mediata ab Apostolis permutatam esse scriptura testatur etc. credimus imediatae vocationis usum Deo in hoc mundo nullum (amplius futura, nullam quip de ea dedit promissionem, nullum mandatum. And D. Saravia in his book of the divers degrees of Ministers page 9 initioterm●th extraordinary calling an unknown coast out of which (the now defenders thereof) can no ways wind themselves. And see mr. D. Covell in his defence of mr. Hooker pag. 86. fine & 87. initio. and see Saravia in defen. tract. etc. contra resp. Bezae p. 306 & 307. And ibid. page 37. circa med. he saith Sed speciem illam extraordinariae vocationis ad Ecclesiae ministerium etc. cum nullo testimonio scripturarum, nec exemplo certo doceatur, non admitto, est enim periculi plena, & novi malique exempli etc. ea sola fretus nemo se ministerio Ecclesiastico ingerere debet. And see there page 35. 36. 38. etc. ceased and not t● be expected as being without all proof or testimony in the writings of the new testament. If now therefore Waldo did (as appeareth by Protestant's themselves undertake to (b) Simon de Voyon in his discourse upon the Catalogue. of the Doctors etc. page 132. post medium, and Crispinus in his book of the estate of the Church page 339. ante med. Preach being (but) a Lay● secular man, and so wanted calling, much less than could he confer calling to others: therefore both he and all his followers which descended from him were through their want of calling (c) No man taketh the honour unto him, but he that is called of God, as Aaron: hebr. 5, 4. How shall they preach except they be sent. Rom. 10, 15. Who so entereth not in by the door into the Sheepefould but climbeth up an other way, is a thief. john. 10, 1. ntruders, having no more authority to celebrate and administer Sacraments (excepted only Baptism in time of necessity which (d) Baptism by lay persons in time of necessity is affirmed by the Fathers as witnesseth. Caluin. institut. l. 4. c. 15. sect. 20. confessing & saying hereof. Multis abhinc seculis, adeoque ab ipso feré Ecclesiae exordio usu receptum fuit, ut in periculo mortis Laici Baptizarent si minister in tempore non adesset. It is in like manner affirmed by the Lord archbishop of Canterbury in his defence against Carthwrite pa. 518 & 519. aunt med. & many other Protestants. a lay person may do) than they had power to create a new world, so little is the continuance of Protestants administration of the Word & Sacraments enabled by Waldo. 3 Thirdly concerning the Protestants doctrine of justification by only faith, which is in their judgement (e) Mr. Clerk in the disputation had in the Tower with Edm. Camp. the 4. days conference Arg. 1 D. iiii the soul of the Church: (f) The Cofession of Bohemia in the harmony of Confessions in English page 253. of all other points of doctrine the weightiest. & which saith: Mr. Fox (g) act. mon. page 402. a. circa med. Luther opened as being long hid before. It was so unknown to Waldo, and he so wholly affected to our Catholic doctrine of merits and Works (which Protestants term (h) Penrie in his book entitled Mr. Some laid open in his colours page 29. 30. the very heart, life, and soul of Papistry,) that he did (i) D. Humphrey in jesuitismi part. 2. rat. 3. page 270 circa medium: and Mr. Fox act. mon. page 628. b. fine forsake all things that being poor he might follow Christ and the evangelical perfection: which our adversaries reject (k) Mr. Fulke against the Rhemish testament in Math. 19 sect. 9 fol. 38. b. And mr. Perkins in his reformed Catholic page 241. and Caluin. institut. lib. 4. cap. 13. sect. 13. for Popish: In so much as he and his followers were a very profession of begging Friars, and therefore called (l) acts and monuments page 41. b. circa medium & page 629 a. ante medium. the poor men of Lions (m) Doctor Humphrey in jesuitismi part. 2. page 270 circa medium. professing (as D. Humphrey urgeth) a kind of monastical life: wherein they were so forward, that they afterwards (*) Vrspergenses in Chronic. Anno 1212. made means to Innocentius the third than Pope to have their order by him confirmed, but could not prevail 4 Fourthly the Waldenses held sundry gross errors. as namely their denial (2) See Guido and Antoninus de Waldensibus: and Aeneas Silvius in his Bohemica historia de Waldensium dogmatibus: And Luxemb. in haer. Paup. de Lugduno. of all judgement to blood. and (3) See Illiricus in Catal. testium veritatis page 748. prope initium. of the Saboth. In regard of which latter they were also called (4) Act. mon. page 41. b. circa med. & see Simon de Voyon in his discourse upon the Catallog. of the Doctors of the Church. p. 134 insabalistes. They also further taught (5) Illiricus in Catal. testium veritatis p. 731. fine. & 745. aunt med. & 730. circa med. & 732. initio 740. ante medium. that lay-men & women might Consecrate (the Sacrament) & preach. That (6) Illiricus ibid. page 729. circa med. & 747. post medium. & 760 circa med. Clergy men should have no Possessions or property. that (7) Illiricus ibid. page 729. post medium there should be no division of Parishes, nor Churches: for (8) Ibid. page 749. initio: & 733 circa med. & page 760 fine. a walled Church they reputed as a barn & ●. alleging texts against (9) Ibid. pag 749 initio Churches made with hands: that (10) Illiricus ibid. page 735. ante med. & 756. aunt med. & 752. initio. men ought not to swear in any case. (11) Ibid. page 731 circa med. & 743 post med. they condemned the Sacrament of marriage: affirming that those (12( Ibid. married persons mortally sinned, who accompanied together without hope of issue. they held (13) Ibid. page 746. ante medi. & 731. post med. all things done above the girdle, by kissing, touching, words, compression of the paps etc. to be done in charity, and not against continency. That also (14) Ibid. page 760. circa med. & 740. aunt med and teste Osiandro in epitome. histor. Eccles. cent. 9 10. 11. etc. page 440 post med. neither Priest nor civil Magistrate being guilty of mortal sin did enjoy their dignity, or were to be obeyed. (15) Illiricus in catal. test. Ver. page 735. post med. & 755. post med. They condemned Prince & judges. (16) Ibiden. page 730. fine. They affirmed singing in the Church to be an infernal clamour. And (to omit sundry other), they taught that they might dissemble their religion, & so accordingly (17) Ibid. page 734 paulo post med. they went to the Catholic Church dissembling, and offered, confessed, and Communicated dissemblingly. By reason of which their dissimulation they secretly increased in sundry places to a great number before they could be discovered: for which our adversary Illiricus (18) Illiricus ibidem page 722. ante med. faith of them: Non est quidem id omnino probandum, quod in multis locis diù sine ulla publica Confessione fuerint. not unworthily reproveth them. And if Protestants will not believe the writers of those times reporting these and sundry other gross errors of them, why then may they not excuse in like manner Peter Bruis, Almericus, the Albigenses, and the Apostolici, or Henricianes: all which lived in that age and are confessed to have held (n) Peter Bruis denied Transubstantiation, Mass, Prayer for the dead, the single life of Priests and monks, Veneration of the Cross, Church music etc. Osiander centur. 12. page 282. 283. and see Catallog. testium veritatis printed 1597 tom. 2. page 561. & 562. Almericus denied the Real Presence Censing of Churches with frankincense: he also taught that, every faithful person ought to believe his own salvation, as surely any article of his faith. Hereof see Vincentius in speculo historial. and Bernardus Lutzemb. de haeresibus) & Osiander centur. 13. page 327. Also he denied Images. Fox act. mon. fol. 70. upon the A. side col. 1. ante med. and denied likewise Transubstantiation, Altars, and praying to Saints. hereof see mr. Moor's Table page ●74. fine. And Pantaleon in Chronograph. page 98. the Albigenses denied Prayer for the dead, Purgatory, Confession, Extreme Unction, the Pope's authority, Images, Pardons, Ceremonies, and Traditions: Hereof see Fox act. mon. fol 71. upon the B. side col. 2. post med. And Cesareus Hesterbachius l. 5. c. 21. and Antoninus 4. part. tit. 11. c. 7. the Apostolici or Henricianes, Burned Crosses: denied the Real presence and Sacrifice of the Mass: Also Festival days, consecration of Chrism and Oil, Purgatory, and Prayer for the dead, Prayer to saints. etc. Hereof see Petrus ●●●na●●●sis lib. contra haereses etc. S. Bernard. serm. 66. in Cantic. And Bernardus Bo●aualensis vitae S. Bernardi l. 2 c. 5. and Osiander in Epitome. etc. Centur. 12. page 291 ante med. and Pantaleon in Cronograph. page 92. sundry of the Protestants opinions as well as did the Waldenses: and are yet nevertheless by learned Protestants rejected and reputed for (o) The Apostolici are censured for Heretics by mr. Fulke in his retentive against Bristol etc. page 124. and by Osiander centur. 12. page 291. ante med. And Mr. jewel in his defence of the Apology page 48. disclaimeth in Almaricus, the Albigenses, and Apostolici, saying expressly of them: they be none of ours. And Peter Bruis is censured for an Heretic by Osiander centur. 12. page 282. 283. And see the several absurd errors of Almaricus reported by Osiander in epitome. hist. Eccles. centur. 9 10. 11. etc. page 326. and of the Apostolici reported by Osiander ibidem page 291 ante med. and of the Albigenses reported by Osiander ibid. page 329. and o● Peter Bruis reported by Osiander in cent. 12 page 282 & 283. and see further heretofore tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 2 in the margin at the letters q. and r. And Hospinianus in historia Sacramentaria lib. 4. page 361 post medium saith: Henricus quidam cum Petro Bruis circa Annum Domini 1140 docere caepit semel tantum in ipsa ultima Domini caena Apostoli Christi corpus vere datum sub specie panis, deinceps autem ●●eram deceptionem esse quod Sacerdotum ministerio dicitur aut creditur: testis est & refutator huius erroris Petrus Cluniacensis qui eodem tempore floruit, in tractatu de Sacrificijs. Heretics, in regard only of those sundry other most absurd heretical opinions, wherewith the writers of those times do in like sort charge them. Or why also may not the now succeeding ages say as much hereafter in like excuse as well of Barrowe, Browne, Hacket: Ardington etc. as also of (p) Mr. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic. page 62. the horrible heresies of the Anabaptistes, Libertines, Swenfeldianes, and such otherlike of this age as have sprung from Protestant's, holding as yet most of their opinions? Or with what credit can Protestant's themselves allege the same writers to prove that the Waldenses held certain points of thei● faith? for if they depend upon their testimony in that, how can they upon mere supposal make it doubtful in the other? considering it is evident that in those former times the said reporters indifferently and alike condemned all those opinions wherein the Waldenses did as then descent from the Roman Church, as not foreknowing which of those opinions we of this age would a low or reject. This point is yet made much more evident by example of the foresaid Albigenses whose execrable errors are specially acknowledged and (2) Osiander in centur. 13. l. 1. c. 4. page 329. initio. saith: Exorta est haeresis Albigentium etc. Dogmata haec illis attribuuntur, duo esse principia Deum viz. bonum & Deum malum, hoc est Diabulum, qui omnia corpora crete, bonum autem Deum creare animus: etc. Baptismum abijciunt, ire in Ecclesias vel in eyes orare nihil prodesse etc. Matrimonia damnabant, promiscuos concubitus eosque nefarios, sanctos ducebat Corporum resurrectionem negant: etc. Quod Christus non fuerit verus homo, nec verè comederit: etc. And a little after there, he further saith. Hae propositiones cum sint absurdae, impiae & hereticae etc. Cum Albigenses admonitiones non admitterent, sed in erroribus & sceleribus persisterent. Adhortante Pontifice Romano, magistratus polliticus, collecto exercitu, duabus vicibus aliquot millia Albigensium tru●●darunt: multi etiam Capitibus truncati & cremati leguntur qui hinc inde sunt deprehensi: fuit enim Albigensis furor Anabaptisticus, qualis Anno 1534. nostro seculo Anabaptistarum monasterientium erat; See also further hereof the century writers of Magdeburg. centur. 13. c. 5. and mr. Marbecks' common places page 22. may now mr. Fox and Chrispinus allege these thousands thus slain in their Catallogue of Protestant Martyrs? reported by sundry Protestant writers, and they thereupon rejected for confessed (*) Mr. jewel in his defence of the Apology page 48. disclaimeth in the Albigenses, and others there named, saying expressly of them, they be none of ours. and Osiander cent. 13. page 329. saith, as is before alleged that their opinions were absurd, wicked, and heretical that they admitted no admonition, but persisted in their errors and wickedness: and calleth them yet further an anabaptistical fury. And Pantaleon in chronographia page 98. numbereth them amongst Heretics. And so likewise doth Mr. Marbecke in his common places page 22. Heretics. Now these Albigenses lived in the same time with the Waldense, and were (as Mr. Fulke and other Protestant writers do acknowledge) (3) Mr. Fulke de successione ecclesiastica contra Stapletonum page 332. ante medium. saith of the Waldenses: jam dixi a Papistarum vulgo nomen hoc i●lis inditum, ut aliás dicti sunt pauperes de Lugduno, Leonistae, Albigenses, & quicquid placuit Antichristi Scurris: And ibid. page 333. circa med. he saith: Quae Antoninus etiam & Matheus paris. de Albingensibus quos eosdem esse cum Waldensibus illa Archiepiscoparum epistola probat etc. & vide ibid. page 359. post medi. And Mr. Spark in his answer to mr. john d'Albines page 58. saith to Albines concerning the Waldenses, your friends call them Waldenses, Albigenses pauperes de Lugduno etc. changing their titles and names according to the diversity of places and times they lived in, howsoever their religion was all one. of the same sect with th●m b●ing therefore by him and others challenged (¶) Hereof see heretofore tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 2. in the margin at the letter. q. as members of the Protestants Church, and called Albigenses only of the country (4) Mr. Spark ut supra and Simon de Voyon in his defence upon the catal. of the Doctors of God's Church page 138. initio saith they inhabited the Country about Tholouse & Albi. in which that company remained, as in like resemblance the Hugonottes of France, and Puritans of Scotland, and England profess to be of one religion notwithstanding the diversity of name, whereby they be diversly called or known in those several countries. Hereunto we could (in further explanation of this point) also add the sundry confessed and known doctrines & rebellions of the Waldenses of latter times condemned by Protestants and testified by Melancthon (q) Melancthon. in council. theologic. part. 2. pag 152. ante med. in an epistle to a friend of his who ministered the Communion to Infants: saith. Gaudeo te de summa doctrinae nobiscum sentire, Waldenses scio dissimiles esse & quidem nimis morosé defendant quaedam, de quibus aliquando cum eisrixatus sum quidam nolunt absolve re Lapsos, qui ad poenitentiam redeunt, negant coniugium suis Sacerdotibus. and other Protestant (r) Benedict. Morgenstern. in tract. de ecclesia page 79. paulo post med. saith: Di●i autem possunt novi Waldenses (ex seipsis nati) vel participantes quia partem capiunt a Papistis, partem a Sacramentarijs, partem meliorem a Lutheranis vel fratres (quo nomine valde gaudent) sed falsi, vel certé ignorantiae, quia lucem doctrinae divinitus accensam hoc saeculo supercilio se neglexerunt, & errores crassissimos etiam ab ipso Luthero An. 1523 monstratos etc. clam scriptis apud suos mordicus defenderunt, id quod demum post obitum Lutheri innotuisse. D. D. joannes Hedericus scribit etc. And ibid. pa. 124. he saith to them. Antichristi institutum de numero sacramentorum confirmatis. licet id quidem saepius in alijs articulis fecistis, ut in doctrina, de celibatu, votis, sacra scriptura, bonis operibus, justificatione, Baptismo paruulorum, nec non de Purgatorio. Et vide ibid. pag. 154. & 226. fine. See Seluecerus his testimony of the Waldenses false doctrines, and gross errors not to be suffered. And in the book de Russorum, Muscovitarum, & Tartarorum religionis. pag. 96 Lascitius a Protestant writer, affirmeth the calling of their Clergy to be by casting of lots. Persuasi Deum moderatorem sortis futurum. writers, even after that they were altered (s) Laconici Antisturmij Spongia adversus Lamberti Danaei Antiosiandrum. pag. 35. initio. mentioneth their being altered by Luther. in many things by Luther's instruction. Upon which premises concerning Waldo and his followers for so much as it is made evident thereby. 1 First that immediately before his first appea●ing he was a Catholic, and not member of any other Church to him then known or in being a matter furthermore so manifest that the Protestant writers do therefore affirm his first proceeding to have been in time of (¶) Crispinus in his discourse of the estate of the Chucch. page 338. paulo post medium. thick darkness, and as a first and little beginning of the instauration of the Christian religion 2 Secondly that he was then also, but a lay man, and so wanted calling. 3 Thirdly that his opinion concerning justification, and sundry other points of faith were Catholic. 4 Fourthly and lastly that he and his followers held sundry gross and damnable errors. We do humbly as now submit to your majesties learned judgement, whether that Protestants may allege this example of the Waldenses as sufficient to continue and uphold the administration of their Church's Word, and Sacraments. But so much as at and since that foresaid time (*) See before tract. 2 cap. 2. sect. 3. b. x. y. of Anno 1218. in which Waldo first appeared. THE LIKE IS showed OF WICLIFFE (Who lived Anno Domini 1370.) and his followers. SECT. 4. AS concerning john Wycliffe and his followers, he as Mr. Foxe reporteth (t) Act. mon. 85. a. post medium. flourished Anno Domini 1371. was our countryman and so far before his first appearing from being of any Church in which the Protestants administration of the word and Sacraments was then continued: (whereof as appeareth by Mr. Foxe (v) Mr. Fox act. mon. p. 85. b. initio. affirmeth that, out of all doubt all the world was in a m●st desperate & vile estate, and that lamentable ignorance and darkness of God's truth had overshadowed the whole earth, when john Wycliffe stepped forth. etc. as the morning star in the midst of a cloud. And mr. Fox act. mon. printed. 1596. page 391. b. line 60. saith, that in times of horrible darkness when there seemed in a manner to be no one so little spark of pure doctrine left or remaining, Wycliffe by God's providence rose up, through whom the Lord would first waken and raise up again the world. etc. And Osiander in his epitome. hist. Eccles. centur. 9 10. 11. page 439 post med. saith. Libri Wycleu● non per omnia sunt pur●, non enim habuit tum coaetaneos qui potuissent eum (sicubi longius extra metas progressus fuisset.) fraterne admonere. and others not so much as any entry or being could be to him then known.) that he himself was then before a Catholic Priest, even the (x) Mr. Stows Annals of England faithfully collected etc. Printed 1592. pa. 464 initio. Parson of Lutterworthe in Leicestershire: And as Mr, Stowe in his annuals or chronicle dedicated to the new Lord Archbishop of Canterbury abridgeth his story (y) Stowe ibid. pag. 425. post med. He (first) inveighed against the Church f●r that he had been deprived by the Archbishope of Canterbury from a certain benefice etc. And having so upon this occasion separated himself from the Church in which he formerly was (z) Stow ubi supra. He with his disciples went barefooted and basely clothed in course russet garments down to the heel: and (a) Stow ibidem. page 426 ante medium. seemed to contemn all temporal goods for the love of aeternal riches, adjoined himself to the b●gging Friar● approving their poverty and extolling their perfection: retaining also his foe mer Catholic opinion concerning (2) Wyclews de blasphemia ap. 17. mentioning aqua benedicta saith withal in proof thereof, Habuerunt Christi Discipuli potestatem corpora tam rationabilia quam irrationabilia consecrandi. Holy Water: (3) Wyclews de Eucharistia cap. 9 saith, adoramus imagines unde ut signa etc. conceditur ergo quod reliquiae, imagines, & sacramenta sunt cum prudentia adoranda. And in decalogo super primo mandato cap. 15. he saith Introductae sunt imagines in Ecclesiam ut sint libri Laicorum & signa recordativa singulis Christianis ut adorent debitè Sanctos Dei. the worshipping of Relics, and Images: (4) Wyclews in serm. de Assumptione Mariae, saith: Hic videtur mihi, quod impossibile est nos praemiari sine Mariae suffragio etc. the intercession of our Blessed Lady, St. Marry: The (5) Wyclews de tractatu degradationibus scholasticis c. 3. saith of them: Sunt docta implicitè in sua specie vel suo principio, (and that) supposita quacunque tali caeremonia virtuosa vel licita, fuit docta per appositiones in su● principio. apparel and tonsure of priests: The (6) Wyclews de Apostasia c. 18. mentioneth and alloweth them: And joannes Przibraws (an heretic who lived near the same time) in professione fidei c. 28 saith joannes Wyclews libro de Apostasia cap. 18. approbat totum ritum Missae a principio ferè usque ad finem etc. Rite: and Ceremonies of the Mass (7) Wyclews ad caput primum prioris ad Corinth. saith: unctio extrema est medicina ad sanandum peccatum, ut patet jacobi. 5. (affirming there further that it is made) cum oleo olivae ab Episcopo consecrato. Extreme Unction. and all (8) Wyclews in Postilla super 15. c. Marci numbereth and mentioneth them all. and in postilla super 1. Cor. 1. he further saith quaedam sacramenta etc. per se promulgavit (Christus) ut Baptismum, Eucharistiam, Ordinem, & Poenitentiam: quaedam autem per Apostolos ut Confirmationem & Extremam Vnctionem etc. the seven Sacraments, and all those sundry other points of our Catholic faith now in question, with denial whereof he is not found somuch as charged. 2 Secondly he held sundry strange and damnable heresies, as (amongst other) that (b) Act. mon. page 96. a. art. 4. & b. art. 15. Osiander in epitome. hist. Eccles. centur. 9 10. 11. & pag. 452. art. 4. if a bishop or Priest be in deadly sin he doth not order Consecrate nor Baptize (c) act. mon. page 96. a. fine & 93. b. art. 12. & Osiander ubi supra page 453. art. 10. & page 458. art. 36. that ecclesiastical ministers should not have any temporal p●ss●ssions or (d) Melancthon in epist. ad Frideric. miconium (extant) in libro epistolarum Suinglij & Oecolampadij page 622 initio. saith of Wycliffe. Contendit Presbiteris non licere ut possideant quicquam proprium. property in any thing. but should (e) Melancthon. loc. common. de potest. eccles. ant med. says. illa Wyclevica superstitio pernitiosa & seditiosa est, quae adigit ministros ecclesiarum ad mendicitatem, & negat eis licere proprium tenere. beg. (*) Osiander ubi supra p 459. art. 43. He condemned lawful oaths. Savouring therein (saith Osiander) of Anabaptism. he also taught th●t (¶) Osiander cent. pag. 457. prope initium. all things come to pass by absolute necessity. whi●h is Stoical. and as for the Protestants doctrine of justification, it was so unknown to him that as Waldensis (who lived in the same time with him) affirmeth he exceeded in the contrary, defending (f) Waldensis tom. 3. cap. 7. 8. 9 humane merrittes as the damnable heretic Pelagius held them. In so much that Melancthon saith accordingly of Wicliffe (g) Melancthon in epist ad Frideric. mico●. in lib. epist. Suinglij & Oecolampadij page 622. prope initium saith. prorsus nec intellexit nec tenuit fidei justitiam. verily he did not understand nor hold the justice of faith. and doubeth not with all to say of him, (h) Melancthon ibid. I have found in him many other errors whereby one may judge of his spirit. lastly (to omit divers other) he held as Melancthon termeth it (i) Melancthon ibidem saith of Wycliffe. De domino civili sophisticè plané & seditiosè rixatur. a see litiouse doctrine, and mother of all rebellion, teaching (k) Osiander in epitome. histor. Ecclesiast. centur. 9 10. 11. 12. etc. page 454. fine art. 15. & Concil. Constantien. Sess. 8. art. 15. And Melancthon in disput. de jure magistratuum saith hereof. Insanij● Wyclews qui sensit impios nullum dominium habere. And in Commentarijs ad politica Aristotelis, he further saith, miras tragedias excitavit Wiclews, qui contendit eos, qui non habent spiritum sanctum amittere dominium, & colligit multas so phisticas rationes ad confirmandum hoc dogma. etc. recitabimus quaedam argumenta Wycleu● etc. that there is no civil Magistrate whilst he is in mortal sin: and that (¶) Osiander in epitome. centur 9 10. 11 etc. page 405 art. 17. the people may at their pleasure correct Princes when they do offend. and according to this principle (l) Mr. Stows annal etc. page 550. post med. the favourers of wycliff●s doctrine did (as Mr. Stow reporteth) n●●●e up schedules upon the Church's doors of London containing that there was a hundredth thousand men ready to rise against all such as could not away with their sect. In somuch as Sr. john Ouldcastle Wycliffes chief disciple or (m) act. mon. page 268. b. fine And Mr. Stows annal etc. page 550. post medium. follower (n) Mr. Stows annal ibidem. to whose force and wit these other trusted Burst forth into (o) Mr. Stowe ubi supra page 566. initio. also his inditement of high treason is extant of record, and set down by Mr. Fox act. mon. printed 1596. pag. 529. b. where he more boldly then advisedly laboureth upon surmises to discredit the said record. treason against the King and (p) Mr. Stowe ibidem pag. 551. prope initium. did confederate himself with others to fight against the King in St. Giles field. At that time (q) Mr. Stow ibid. pag. 551. circa medium. were taken fourscore men in armour of that faction. And (r) Ibid. page 551 prope finem. 37. of them (publicly) condemned and executed. And Sr. john Ouldcastle himself being at the last taken, was likewise executed in the said field of St. Giles, at what time he was so fantastical, that at the time of his execution (s) Mr. Stow ibid. 572 fine. when many honourable persons were present, the last words he spoke was to Sr. Thomas Erpingham, adjuring him, that if he saw him rise from death to life again the third day, he would procure that his sect might be in quiet. By all which premises concerning Sir john Ouldcastle, taken from Mr. Stows Chronicle (dedicated to the now Lord archbishop of Canterbury) it seemeth that Mr Fox was in extreme need of examples to maintain the continuance of his visible Church, when in his acts and monuments he so publicly and seriously registered this Sr. john for (t) Act. mon. page 261 b. and see there the title of Ouldcastles history. and see Mr. Downeham in his treatise concerning Antichrist. pag. 41. prope initium. a valiant and most worthy Martyr for the true profession of Christ's Gospel. And thus much briefly (to omit much more (*) joachimus Vadianus a Swinglian of Zuriche de Eucharistia lib. 5. page 161. saith of Wycliffe. In nonnullis faede lapsus est. etc. He was foully overseen in sundry points of religion and more given to scoffing and prating then became a sober Divine. And Pantaleon in Chronolog. page 119. ante med. accounteh Wycl●ffe for an Heretic. And placing him there in his Catallogue of Heretics. saith. joannes Wyclefius cum Lolhardis in Anglia suam haeresim predicat. etc. And Mathias Hoe in his tractat. duo etc. tract. 1. de disput. page 27. expressly placeth and numbereth the W●clenistes and Hussistes in the rank of Heretics, calling them and others by him there named most monstrous monsters. Also it appeareth by mr. Fox that Wicliffe was an usual dissembler of his faith: and that to prevent danger of trouble he did ordinarily practise the same, to which purpose mr. Fox. act. mon. page 95. a fine, saith. W●cliffe being beset with troubles was forced once again to make confession of his doctrine, in which confession, as occasion served for to avoid the rigour of things he answered with intricate words etc. Anno. 1381. And page 91. a. versus finem. he signifieth Wicleves often recantation: alleging Wicliffe saying. And now again as before, also I do revoke & make retractation etc. by means whereof as Mr. Fox confesseth a little there before Wicliffe wound himself out of the bishops snares Anno 1377. And p. 846. a. paulo post med. it is testified how that Wycliffe in an epistle written by him ad joannem Episcopum Lincoliensem, retracted his former doctrine against the Real presence of Christ's Body in the sacrament and in the Mass, reconciling himself in that article to the Church of Rome: and page 98. b. post med. and 99 a. it appeareth that Wicliffe Anno. 1384. (which was not three years before his death) in his epistle to Pope Urban doth purge himself to the Pope, acknowledging that, the bishop of Rome is the Vicar of Christ here upon earth. with much more other like dissimulation: By ●eason of which kind of practise, Wicliffe so escaped the aggravated danger of those times, that as Mr. Foxe witnesseth pag. 98. a. paulo ante med. He returned again to his parish of Lutte● worth whereof he was parson, and quietly there (saith mr. Fox) Slept in the Lord upon St. Siluesters day ann● 1387. that might be said (concerning Wycliffe and his followers) wherein is showed. 1 First that immediately before his first appearing he was a Catholic Priest, and no Church of Protestants then known to be so much as but in being. 2 Secondly that after his revolt he retained still sundry Catholic points of faith. 3 Thirdly that he held sundry gross and damnable errors. 4 Fourthly and lasty that his doctrine was treasonable and his followers were notable convicted traitors: whereupon we refer (as before) to your majesties learned judgement, whether that the example of Wicliffe and his followers doth enable the continuance of the Protestants Churches administration, of the Word and Sacraments, but so much as for and since that time in which he first appeared. THE LIKE IS showed OF HVSSE (who lived Anno Domim 1400.) and his followers. SECT. 5. AS concerning john hus, who was brought in question (v) Simon de Voyon in his discourse upon the catallog. of the doctors of God's Church pag. 159 about the year 1405. little is needful to be said, for his chief trouble was for urging communion to the lay people under both kinds, (which point Protestant's acknowledge to be but a matter of indifferency, (x) Melancthon in centur. epist. theologic. page 252. initio. and see the protestant writers alleged, and by mr. jewel not denied, in his reply page 110. & 109. and for his affirming (y) act. mon. page 230. b. art. 1. & 2. and confessed of hus by Osiander in epitome. cent. 15. page 469. paulo post medium. where he repeateth Wycliffe & Husse his doctrine saying: Nullus est Dominus civilis, nullus est Prelatus, nullus est Episcopus, dum est in mortali peccato: haec propositio approbari non potest, sed passus est joannes Husse hac in part aliquid humani ut supra demonstravimus. of Wicliff's seditious doctrine against Princes, Priests, and bishops, if they committed mortal sin: other wise he believed (z) Act. mon. page 216. a. fine & b. initio. seven Sacraments. (a) act. mon. page 209. a. fine & b. initio. & post med. & page 197. b. fine. Transubstantiation. (b) Mr. jacob in his defence o● the Churches and ministery of England page 13. ante med. & act. mon. page 227. b. art. 7. & 8. & pag. 216 are. 12. and Luther in assertionibus Art. 30 saith. joannes Husse non repugnare videtur quo minus sit Monarchia Papae. (and a little there before) he further saith of Wicliffe. non parum detulit romano idolo. the Pope's Primacy. and (c) Luther in colloquijs germanicis cap. de Missa saith: Missa privata multos sanctos decipit a tempore Gregorij per Annos. 800. joannes Husse codem reti captus fuit. the Mass itself: and being a Catholic Priest said (d) Mr. jacob. ubi supra. And Hulderich Reichentale who was a Citizen of Constance and lived in that time testifieth the same in hist. teutonic. de con●il. Constantiens. Mass even to his dying day: and was so catholicly resolved in other points of faith, that Luther saith. (e) Luther in colloquijs germanicis cap. de Antichristo. the Papists burned john hus when as yet he departed not a finger breadth from the Papacy, for he taught the same which the Papists do, only he found fault with their vices and wicked life, against the Pope he committed nothing. And the same is yet further testified of hus by (f) Mr. Fox in Apoc. c. 11. page 287. post med saith: Hieronimus Laudans joannem Hussium ait, nihil illum adversus Ecclesiae statum commeruisse, tantum abusus, Clericorum superbiam, fastum ac Pompam Prelatorum ferre minus potuisse. Hierome of Prag, who lived in the same time with him: a thing so evidently true that no meaner a witness then Mr. Fox, testifieth the same as yet much more fully, rebuking for that very reason the Pope's causing hus to be burned: to which end Mr. Fox saith: (g) Mr. Fox in Apoc. c. 11. page 290. post med. saith. Hussium & Hieronimum ut haereticos traducunt, quid ita obsecro? etc. Addo aliquid amplius si hereticus est, qui a placitis Romanae Ecclesiae de flexit, quid unquam docuit, aut in concilio defendit Hussius in quo non cum Papistis superstitiosé consentire videbatur? quid de Transubstantiatione statuit fides Pontificia quod ipse pariter cum ijsdem Pontificijs non confirmavit? Quis Missas illo religiosius celebravit, aut vota sacerdotalis celibatus castius obseruavit? Add huc quod in dogmate Catholicorum de libero arbitrio, de Predestinatione de fide formata, de iustificationis causa, de meritis bonorum operum, quid aliter sentit ille quam quod docetur Romae, quam ille unquam statuam aut divi imaginem eiecit é templo suo Bethlehem? etc. Agedum, quid igitur commeruisse illum dicemus, in quo aut non ipse pariter cum Romana Sede condemnandus sit, aut cum eadem absoluendus? What did hus at any time teach or defend in the Council, wherein he did not rather seem superstitiously to consent with the Papists? what did the popish faith decree concerning Transubstantiation which he likewise with the Papists did not confirm? who celebrated Mass more religiously than he, or more chasilie observed the vows of Priestly chastity? Add further that in the doctrine of Catholics concerning free-will, Predestination, informed faith, the cause of justification, and merit of good works? what other thing did he hold then is taught at Rome? What image of any Saint did he ever cast out of his Church at Bethleme? etc. What therefore shall we say him to have committed for which he is not together with the Roman see to be condemned, or with it to be absolved? And Mr. Foxe reporteth accordingly of Husse his followers the Bohemianes that (h) Act. mon. page 260. b. ant med. being demanded in what points they did differ from the Church of Rome (i) Ibidem circa medium. the only propositions which they (thereupon) propounded were these (k) Act. mon. page 260. ante medium. And see the very same testimony hereof in Dresserus his millenar. 6. page 255. post medium. four articles: First the necessity of Communion under both kinds: the Second that all civil dominion was forbidden to the Clergy. the Third that the preaching of the Word is free f●r all men and in all places. the Fourth that open crimes are in no wise to be suffered for avoiding of greater evil. So evidently also did the B●hemianes in all other points of faith embrace the Catholic doctrine. And thus much briefly concerning hus and his followers that they were not of the Protestants Church, and therefore cannot justly be alleged as examples sufficient to uphold their Church's administration of the Word and Sacraments: A truth made so evident by the premises as we hold it altogether unworthy of your majesties further consideration, only we cannot but (as before) so here also admire Mr. Fox his extreme boldness or rather need of protestant Pastors and professors, when he so seriously registered john hus for (l) Act. mon. page 190. b. ant med. & page 241. b. post med. A●d Master Dowaeham in his treatise concerning Antichrist pag. 40. fine. a most holy martyr, of their Church: not doubting likewise so unadvisedly to honour, the successful for the time (though barbarous) (m) Of their barbarous cruelty, see act. mon. pag 253. b. insurrection of his (n) Act. mon. pag. 250 b. post medium. disciples and adherentes in Bohemia (who proceeded (o) Act. mon. pag. 251 a. post medium. to revenge his death with (p) Act. mon. ibid. an army of. 40000 men and confessed (q) Act. mon. page 252 a. ante medium. Mr. Fox saith of them, they rebelled out of hand. and Osiander in epitome. histor. eccles. centur. 9 10. 11. etc. pa. 472. circa med. saith of them. Cum Bohemi de exustis duobus Martiribus joanne Husso & Hieronimo Pragensi certiores facti essent vehementer exasperati sunt, a Magistratu politico aliquot Templa extorserunt in quibus Conciones ab Hussiacis ministrs audiverunt & Sacramenta perceperunt. postea progressu temporis monasteria quaedam & Templa pontificia destruxerunt, Sacerdotes quosdam pontificios trucidarunt, denique multa designarunt, quae Hussus si in vivis adhuc fu●sset minime approbasset. etc. rebellion against their Sovereign) with the unfitting title of (r) act. mon. pag. 258. a. initio. the gospels increase. THAT Though WALDO WICLIFFE and Husse had been Protestants yet their examples are insufficient in this case. SECT. 6. HITHERTO we have proceeded that neither Waldo, Wicliffe, nor hus were of the Protestants Church, and that therefore their examples are impertinently alleged: only now we will suppose for the time that they had been all of them full Protestants in opinion, and withal yet appeal to your majesties learned judgement, whether their fo●esaide examples be not altogether insufficient to prove a continuance of their Church's administration of the Word and Sacraments, but so much as for those only times in which they lived, and that for two special important reasons. As 1 First in that neither they all (nor so much as any one of them) were before their first appearing members and professors of the said supposed Protestants Church and faith, but were (as appeareth by the premises,) all of them originally professed and known Catholics: as in like manner were Arius, Macedonius, Nestorius, Pelagius, Eutiches, and the other old Sectmasters before their times, who all being first Catholics (through Innovation afterwards and novelty of opinion) (s) 1. john. 2, 19 & act. 15, 24. went out from us: the very brand or character wherewith the holy scriptures, & Protestants (t) Mr. Alison in his confutation of Brownism. pag. 1. initio. themselves do note false teachers. And therefore the foresaid example of Waldo, Wicliffe, and H●sse, who before their first appearing were Catholics supposing they were afterwards Protestants) proveth in steed of continuance rather a manifest defection, and not being of their Church's administration of the Word & Sacraments, at and immediately before the first beginning of every of them. 2 Secondly, as Luther saith: (v) Luther upon the epistle to the Galathianes englished in c. 1. fol. 10. b ante medium. It is not enough for a man to have the word and purity of doctrine, but all o he must be assured of his calling, and he that entereth without this, certainly entereth to no other end but to kill. etc. to which purpose the scripture saith: (2) Rom. 10, 15. How shall they preach except they be sent. (3) Hebr. 5, 4 No man taketh to him the honour of Priesthood but he that is called of God as Aaron was: (4) john. 10, 1 Who so entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth an other way, is a thief. And for so much as the refuge of pretended extraordinary calling hath been heretofore (x) See heretofore tracked 2. c. 2. sect. 3 in the margin there at the letter z. and in the margin at the letter a. sufficiently discovered, and rejected, by learned Protestants, Lutherans, and Puritans: the Churches ordinary calling by man, being, (as the ancient Fathers (*) Cyprian. l. de simplicitate Prelatorum condemneth such as want the Church's calling saying. I● sunt qui se ultio apud temerarios convenas sine divina dispositione praesiciunt, qui se praepositos sine ulla ordinationis lege constituunt: qui nemine episcopatum dante Episcopi nomen sibi assumunt. And Cyprian. l. 1. ep. 6. ad Magnum. sayeth of Novatianus: Novatianus in Ecclesia non est, nec Episcopus computari potest qui evangelica & Apostolica traditione contempta, nemini succedens a seipso ordinatus est, habere namque aut tenere Ecclesiam nullo modo potest qui ordinatus in ecclesia non est (and a little afterwards) nemini succedens & a seipso incipiens, alienus fit & prophanus. Upon this ground Tertulian. in libro de prescrip. urgeth the Heretics of his time saying: Edant origines ecclesiarum suarum, evoluant ordinem Episcoporum svorum ita per successionem etc. And Optatus l. 2. contra Parmen. urgeth in like manner the Donatisies saying. Vestrae Cathedrae vos originem ostendite qui vobis vultis sanctam ecclesiam vindicare: mistus est Victor ex Africa Romam, erat ibi filius sine patre, sequens sine Antecedente And St. Austin ex quaest. in novo & vet. Test. quest. 100 saith of Heretics. Ordinem ab Apostolo Petro caeptum & usque hoc tempus per traducem succedentium Episcoporum seruatum perturbant, ordinem sibi sine origine vendicantes etc. and themselves (y) Luther upon the epistle to the Galathianes fol. 10. a. circa med. saith: God calleth us at this day to the ministery of his word not immediately himself but by man. And Piscator. volum. 1 thesium. theolog. pag. 405. circa med. saith. Post tempora autem Apostolorum vocavit, & adhuc vocat, & ad finem usque mundi vocaturus est pastors, Doctores & Presbiteros per Ecclesiam etc. And see D. Covel. in his defence of Mr. Hooker page 86. fine & 87. initio. and in his examination etc. page 131. fine & 106 initio. do yet further confess) the established course of the new Testament, without which no man may undertake the public charge and administration of the word and sacraments: To which end the now Lord Bishop of Winchester affirmeth that, (z) Mr. Bilson in his perpetual government of Christ's Church. c. 9 pag. 111. ante medium. the moderation of the keys and imposition of hands were at first settled in the Apostles: and that they can have no part of apostolic Commission that have no show of Apostolic succession etc. and therefore that (a) Ibid. page 111 post med. and see the like in Mr. D. Covel. in his examination page 97. circa med. & 106 initio. Pastors do receive by succession the power and charge of the Word and Sacraments from and in the first Apostles: against all which, the vulgar objections which some precisians urge (contrary to scriptures, and so many of their own writers) of (b) Objected by master Fulke against the Rhemish Testament in Rom. c. 10 fol. 255. a. paulo post me. Aedesius and Frumentius (two lay persons) Converting a great nation of the indians: and of a captive woman converting the nation of the Iberianes, and grossly mistaken (c) Mistaken and impertinent, for though it be reported that Aedesius and Frumentius did by private exhortation persuade the people of that Nation to the Christian faith, a thing which Say persons may do: yet is there no mention that either of them did undertake the administration of the Word and Sacraments, until such time as Frumentius went to Alexandria to Athanasius who gave to him the holy function of a Bishop. Theodoret (after Christofersons translation. hist. l. 1. c. 23.) wherewith he returned to the said nation and so proceeded to their conversion. In like manner it is not said that the captive woman did undertake the administration of the word and sacraments, but that Priests only were wanting, which she perfected by persuading the King to send to the Emperor of R●me for some Doctor etc. Whereupon a certain worthy man was made bishop and sent to preach to the nation of the Iberianes. Thendoret hist. l. 1. c. 24. versus finem. See also the former example of Frumentius answered in this sort, by D. Saravia in defence. tract. etc. contra respons. Bezae. c. 1. page 46. ante medium. and impertinent. If now our Catholic Church be a true Church able to confer this calling so by her (*) Whittaker contra Duraeum. l. 9 page 820. saith hereof to Duraeus: Fuit Lutherus vestro etiam ritu Presbiter atque Doctor etc. & talem fuisse Suinglium, Bucerum, Oecolampadium aliosque innumerabiles constat. etc. And see joannes Regius in libro Apologetico. etc. page 122. ante med. & page 121. given to hus, Wicliffe etc. and that it was sufficient to them, why then do our adversaries so grievously accuse & malign our said Church for false and Antichristian? And if according to their doctrine the Pope be Antichrist and our Church Antichristian, then followeth necessarily that which themselves thereupon say, namely that, (d) Propositions and Principles disputed in the University of Geneva. page 245. circa med. And Mr. Gabriel powel in his consideration of the Papists reasons etc. page 71. saith the Popish ordination is nothing else but mere profanation: etc. there is no true Ecclesiastical vocation in the Papacy. etc. And see further hereof mr. Sutliffe in his answer to the Mass priests supplication to the 19 section And Mr. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic page 50. circa med. saith, to us, you are highly deceived if you think we esteem your offices of Bishop's Priests and Deacons any better than Lay men, and you presume to much to think that we receive your ordering to be lawful. And page 51. ante med. he answereth & giveth reason, why he alloweth our Baptism though not our orders. And see Mr. Whitaker contra Duraeum. l. 9 page 821. initio. there is in Babylon (thereby meaning our Church) no holy Order or ministry in deed, no lawful calling but a meers usurpation: F●r it must needs to all men seem absurd that Ch●ists Ministers should receive then spiritual power and Commission from Antichrist: and then also not only Waldo the ●ay man, and all those who descended from him (which is heretofore (e) heretofore tract. 2. c. 2 sect 3. prope initium. in them made most evident) but likewise even hus, Wicliffe, and Lu●her himself (who had no other calling but from our Church) and so many other as have afterwards claimed under them, are destitute hitherto of all lawful calling, (f) The Protestant Lascius in proof hereof allegeth (in the book entitled de Russorum, Muscou●tarum, & Tartararum religione. page 23. calvin saying, quia Papae Tirannide abrupta fuit vera ordinationis series, novo subsidio nunc opus est etc. atque omnimò extrao●dinarium fuit hoc munus quod Dominus nobis iniunxit etc. so say they fleeing to extraordinary calling. And Beza in the Conference at Poyssie being demanded of the calling of himself (and his other then associates) affirmed the same to be extraordinary. Hereof read Sarau●a in defence. tract. contra respon. Bezae page 59 fine. & 60. post medium. & 74. fine. the true succession of ordination being (as our adversaries thereupon affirm) then broken of: which needful continuance of personal succession or calling, seemeth furthermore so manifestly defective or wanting in the Protestants Church, that even sundry of themselves, (who as saddle complaineth thereat) (g) Anthony saddle in his book entitled de rebus gravissimis controversis disputationes theologicae page 719. ante med. saith hereof, hoc ipsa rei veritas ab illis obtinuit, veram, atque expresso Dei verbo fundatam esse eam doctrinam, quam ecclesiae nostrae amplexae sunt: sed affirmant ministros esse apud nos legitima vocatione destitutos, cum non habeant perpetuam ac visibilem ab Apostolis ad haec usque tempora successionem. etc. acknowledge the doctrine which their Church doth embrace to be true and grounded upon the express word of God, do yet affirm the ministers with them to be destitute of lawful calling: etc. In which opinion they are so resolute that saddle did therefore write a special (h) The title of that treatise is, de legitima vocatione Pastorum Ecclesiae reformatae adversus eos, qui in hoc tantum capite se ab Ecclesia reformata dissentire profitentur: and beginneth page 719. of the book above alleged. treatise thereof against them. And thus much briefly whether Waldo, Wicliffe, Husse, and Luther, had suficient calling or not to administer the Protestant Church's word and sacraments: which if they had not, then admitting that we should for the time suppose them to have been full Protestants in opinion, and also never to have been revolted Catholics, but originally professors of the Protestants Doctrine, yet all th●s notwithstanding there appeareth by reason of their foresaid alleged only want of true ordination, a confessed and unanswerable defect or downfall (for so many hundredth years last passed) of their Church's administration of the word and sacraments, without which (as themselves have (i) See heretofore tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 1. at x. y. z. heretofore confessed from the scriptures) it were no Church. THAT THE EXAMPLES OF BERTRAM Berengarius & others (who lived before Waldo) are also insufficient to answer in this behalf for their times. SECT. 7. HAVING spoken thus fully of Waldo, Wycliffe and Husse in whom remained our adversairies greatest confidence, it shallbe less needful to make this point more manifest as yet in the other several age's precedent to their times, as well for that thus much only may suffice as have been already said of the Protestants foresaid defection (though but during the several times or ages of Waldo, Wycliffe, Husse or any of them) concerning their Churches then evident want of administration of the word and Sacraments which (according to their former (*) See heretofore tracked 2. c. 2. sect. 1. at. t. v. and ibid. x. y. z. b. c. confession) must evermore continue and be in the true Church, as also for that their like manifest defect, even also in those other precedent ages is by our learned adversaries no less than very plainly acknowledged. To add yet somewhat to that which hath been (k) See heretofore tracked 2. c. 1. sect. 4. heretofore most fully confessed, in that behalf, the other learned Protestants (such as are more wary and sparing what to say or write thereof) do acknowledge that (l) Mr. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic page 36. prope initium. and Mr. Gabriel powel in his Consideration of the Papists reasons etc. page 105. fine. saith. I grant that from the year of Christ 605. the professani company of Popery hath been very visible and perspicuous. Anno 607. (at the furthest) from Christ the papists religion prevailed, (m) Mr. Fulke ibid. pag 27. circa medium. all Popes from Boniface the third being Antichrist's. And that since that time their Church (n) Mr. Fulke ibid. pag. 16. paulo ante med. fled into the Wilderness there to remain a long season invisible now Waldo (who was many years before Wicliffe & Husse) begun but (o) Act. mon. page 628 b. ante medium. Anno 1218 so that betwixt him and the foresaid years of 607 were six hundredth and odd years, for and during all which time no less than for the time since Waldo, our adversaries rest chargeable again to answer for their churches continued administration of the Word and Sacraments, whereat they stand wholly silent, and confess as before their defect therein, being unable to afford but any one example so much as of any one Kingdom, City, or Village upon the whole face of the earth, nor so much as of any one person living in the world, professing their religion and celebrating their sacraments, but during any one moment day or time within any one of all those said six hundredth years. In further trial whereof to deal as now liberally with them, and to admit for true, as well that Apocryphal and forged epistle, printed lately at Basill, & written in behalf of priests marriages in the name of Vtricke bishop of Augusta unto Pope Nicholas, (p) For Pope Nicholas the first, to whom this Vtricke should write was made Pope Anno. 858. & enjoying the same nine years two months xx. days died Anno. 867. as testify Onuphrius in libro de Romanis Pontificibus: & vide Anastasium Bibliothecarium de vitis Roman. Pontific. etc. Printed Magnutiae Anno. 1602. pag. 305 fine. & 328. initio. And Pantaleon in cronog. p. 70 whereas Vtricke was not made bishop of Augusta till after the death of Pope Nicholas viz. Anno. 924 (Vide Vrspergensem in chronic. & Chitreum in Chronic. & Pantaleon in chronic. page 75.) and continuing bishop 50. years: died Anno. 973. Beuther l. Fastorum page 209. And see Pantaleon in Chronograph. page 75. and Osiander in epitome. histor. eccles. cent. 9 10. 11. 12. etc. page 99 fine. & 100 aunt medium. sundry years, either before that Vtricke was borne, or else after that Pope Nicholas was dead: as also that other though perhaps more ancient, yet no less forged (q) It appeareth by the book of Pope Adrian unto Charles, (which book is extant tom. 3. Concil. and in many things long since specially cited by Ivo, and purposely written in confutation of that other book under Charles his name) that the same was then forged by some heretical enemy against Images. and lying book written against images (*) Caluin. in institut. l. 1. c. 11. sect. 14. Insinuateth it to be forged about Charelemaines' time, saying: extat refutatorius liber sub Caroli magni nomine, quem ex dictione colligere licet eodem fuisse tempore compositum. Under the name of Carolus Magnus, who in deed was not only an extreme enemy (r) joanas Aurelianensis (who lived in those times) affirmeth (l. 1. pro imaginibus) that Claudius Taurinensis who impugned images durst never publish his doctrine thereof during the life of Carolus magnus. And Paulus Aemilius l. 2. hist. Franciae such, that Carolus magnus scent 12. Bishops unto a Council holden at Rome by Pope Stephan●● in confutation of the error of the Greeks against images. Hereof also see the century writers cent. 8. c. 9 col. 570. And Mr. Cowper late bishop of Lincoln in his Chronic. fol. 174. b. circa med. repo●teth of certain Bishops sent by Adrian to Charles, who held a Council in France against the condemnation of images. etc. to all those that impugned Images, but was also (as the learned Protestants (s) Hereof see Luc. Osiander in epitome. hist. eccles. cent. 8. pag. 101. circa med. and Mr. Cowpers' Chronic: fol. 173. a. post med. & 175. b. paulo ante med. Fox in Apoc. page 436. paulo post med. And Crispinus in his book of the estate of the Church: page 221. paulo post. med. & 226. initio. & circa med. And Hospinianus in epistola dedicatoria. hist. sacramentar. circa med. saith. Imperator (Carolus magnus) non solum publicis edictis mandavit, ut ceremoniae & ritus, itemque Missa latina Rom. eccles. aliaque decreta placita & instituta Romani Pontificis per totum imperium obseruarentur, sed ipsemet etiam carceribus ac varijs suppliciorum generibus ad hoc ipsum cogebat ecclesias: was this man then like to impugn the Church of Rome in her doctrine of Images. confess) wholly denoted to the Roman Church. And to admit likewise the book written of the Sacrament, and set forth lately (not without great (¶) In so much that Pantaleon in his chronogra. pag. 65. mentioning Bertram and his other writings, forbeareth yet to mention this book or to charge him with this pretended opinion. suspicion) by Oecolampadius under bertram's name to be in deed that ancient book which Bertran is mentioned to have written de Corpore & Sanguine D●mini, to King Charles the bald: and that also this present book were not doubtful (t) This book is so perplexedly and doubfullye penned, and useth the words figure spiritual & mystery, with such qualifications, and so fully also withal affirmeth the presence of Christ's Body under the veil or coverture of bred that it affordeth no plain sense against the Real presence. but plain and direct against the Real presence, which thing the century writers utterly deny: (v) Centur. 9 c. 4. col. 212. It is said: Transubstantiationis semina habet Bertramus. In so much also, as our ancient Catholic writers nearer to those times, doubteth not to honour Bertram, (x) Hospinianus in hist. sacramentaria. l. 4. page 317. paulo ante med. mentioneth this at large. for a holy Martyr of their Church, and Illiricus accordingly for beareth to name him in his (¶) Illiricus in catal. test. ver. printed Basiliae Anno 1556. Catalogue. of Protestant witnesses. And to admit lastly the example of Berengarius Archdeacon of Angiers, denying Transubstantiation, and that he had not, (as he after did) (y) Act. mon. pag. 13. a recanted that his opinion, and had also been free from all those other confessed errors wherewith Oecolampadius and other Protestant writers charge him, (*) Oecolampadius in libro epistolarum Oecolampadij & Suinglij l. 3. page 710. fine. saith: Berengarius nonnulla affirmabat adversus Coniugium & Baptismum paruulorum (and page 711.) deinde etiam Berengarius parum candidè incessisse deprehenditur. (and page 712. initio.) Damnata est Berengarij opinio, nimirum sacerdotio parum, Christiano minus tribuens: And see Papir. Masson in Annalibus Francorum. l. 3. in Hugone, & Roberto: where it is said that Berengarius and his followers denied the grace of Baptism, denying that men committing mortal sin could ever obtain pardon therefore. and that Besides this he was an enemy to marriage. etc. And Crispinus in his book of the estate of the Church. page 289. ante medium saith: Although Berengarius had the truth on his side, yet had he a certain hatred against La●francus and R●gerius mingled with glory. etc. He mingled with all certain speeche● of marriage and the Baptism of little children etc. So ●t cometh to pass when without the Lords fear w● will m●●ntaine the cause of the Gospel. yet what do all these, or any one of them, or any other like that may be alleged, convince in this behalf? every of them, (though thus admitted) extendeth only but to some one part or small time of the said 600 years: and is also for the most part but the example of some one or other private man, being at first Catholic & beginning afterwards to hold some one only singular point of the Protestants faith, remaining in al● other matters of controversy still Catholic: which thing Mr. Fulke did well foresee, and therefore being provoked in this kind, he jumpeth quite over these foresaid examples, and all the said si●e hundredth years, and giveth his first instance in Wi●l●ff saying: (z) Mr. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic. page 34. paulo ante med. Wicliffe I ween you will not deny but he was of our Church: and as to Bertra● & those other who severally impugned Images and the unmarried life of Priests, he saith expressly of them: (a) Mr. Fulke ibidem. Although these and such like defended some part of the truth which we hold against you, yet lest you should object it was but in some one or two points, I pass them over with silence. So manifestly are these foresaid examples of Bertram and the rest found impertinent (though we should admit them for true) and so plainly withal are the said 6. hundredth years between Boniface the 3. and Waldo, found destitute of all examples whereby to up hold the Protestant churches administration of the Word, and Sacraments: which point Master john Nappeir (2) Mr. Nappeir upon the revelations in c. 20. page 239. ante med. affirmeth that for the space of a thousand years from the days of Pope Silvester the first (who lived Anno Dom. 320.) to the days of Pope Boniface the .8. the seat of Rome had no match nor encounter (neither) ever suffered any to be seen vouchable or visible of the true Church but thence forth such hot wars fell betwixt the empire of Rome and the mahumeticke empire, that at unwares divers true professors openly & vowably did arise, as john de R●pe scissa Anno 1240.. Guilielmus de sancto Amore. Anno. 1260. etc. Wicliffe Anno. 1390. john Husse, and Hierome of Prag. Anno. 1415. So plainly doth Mr. Napeir disclaim in Bertram Vtrike and all those other foresaid examples which were before Boniface the 8. As for joannes de Rupe Scissa (whom Mr. Napeire nameth) he lived not Anno. 1260. but (as Mr. Fox) act. mon. printed. 1596. page 359. a. line 70. testifieth Anno. 1340. of whom Mr. Fox there saith, that he for rebuking the spirituality for their great enormities, and neglecting their office was cast in prison: otherwise he was in Religion Catholic, and wholly ignorant of the Protestants doctrine. In like manner concerning Willm. de S. Amore. his trouble is by Mr. Foxe (ubi supra page 287. b. line 60.) and by Crispinus in his discourse of the estate of the Church page 359.) mentioned to be only for writing against the Friars and their hypocrisy in so much as Pantaleon (in chronographia page 102. initio) saith. Guilielmus de S. Amore, Monachos ex elemosina in ocio viventes non salvari scribens a Papa hereticus censetur; and to the like effect testifieth Osiander centur. 13. page 367. ante med. as for any further proof of him being a Protestant there is no testimony; to such impertinent examples as our adversaries enforced for upholding of their Church's continuance. (though our adversary) doth as yet much more fully acknowledge. Add but now hereunto in full conclusion or demonstration that neither H●sse, Will fit, Waldo, nor any other within the foresaid 600. years between Boniface the 3. & Waldo were professed members of the Protestants visible Church, a brief repetition of that which the learned Protestants themselves have heretofore most plainly acknowledged: to this end saith Mr. Perkins (3) Mr. Perkins in his exposition upon the Creed page 400. We say that before the days of Luther for many hundredth years an universal Apostasy overspread the whole face of the earth and that our Church was not then visible to the world: whereof he giveth the reason saying, (4) Mr. Perkins ibidem. page 307. during the space of nine hundredth years the popish heresy hath spread itself over the whole earth. To omit the like acknowledgement of Mr. D. Fulke concerning the Churches remaining (5) Mr. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic. page 16. ante medium. invisible a long season, after Anno. Dom. 607. Master john Napeire confesseth as before that (6) Mr. Nappeire upon the Revelations. pag. 145 colum. 3. fine. the Pope and his Clergy hath possessed the outward visible Church of Christians 1260. years, (7) Mr. Nappeire ibid. page 191. initio. Gods true Church most certainly abiding so long Latent, and invisible: (8) Ibid. p. 161. col. 3. circa med. & page 156. ante. med. & 237. paulo post med. & 23 fine. and Sebastianus Francus affirmeth (9) Sebastianus Francus in epistola de Abrogandis in universum omnibus statutis ecclesiasticis. that for certain, through the work of Antichrist, the external Church together with the faith and sacraments, vanished away presently after the Apostles departure, and that for these thousand four hundredth years, the Church hath been no where external and visible. A CONFUTATION OF THOSE Protestant's who answer that their Church's administration of the Word and Sacraments did during all those times continue in being & yet withal remain as then invisible or unknown; with solution to the usual objection of Elias complaint that he was left alone. SECT. 8. AND for so mu●h as in this extremest need, Anthony Sadell offereth his last help (b) saddle de rebus gravissimis controu. disputa. etc. pa. 783. prope initium. affirming that although their Pastors, Doctors, administration of the Word, & Sacraments, had for so many s●uerall hundredth years together, been to the world so invisible and unknown as the premises argue, that yet notwithstanding they were at all times in every of those several ages most certainly (though so unknown yet) daily extant and in being, even as those 7000. (c) 1 Of Kings. 19, 18 faithful, though unknown in like manner to Helias, when he thought (d) 1 Of Kings. 19, 10 himself alone were yet nevertheless at the same time reserved and remaining. we humbly pray your highness of patience to vouchsafe our examination of this their last and despairing refuge: in full discovery whereof, we say: 1 First that though those .7000. of that one special time were unknown as them to Elias, yet this proveth not (which is the only matter pertinent hereby to be proved that therefore they should be as then unknown also to all others of the same time, and much less therefore can this particular example prove, that all the faithful not of one special time only, but also of so many several hundredth years as are before examined should all of them during all those ages continue so generally Latent and unknown (not to one Elias only but) to the whole world, as that there should remain no memory or notice of the needful preaching, and administration of Sacraments to have been performed, so much as by any one of them in any one Nation of the earth, for any one moment of all those times, 2 Secondly we say that this example of Elias maketh wholly for us & against our adversaries, and is therefore by them either ignorantly mistaken, or wilfully misapplied: for it is evident that Elias (e) 1 Of Kings. 19, 3. And see the contents of the English Bible upon that Chapter. fleeing the face of jezabel wife to Achab, who sought (f) Ibid. vers. 2. his life, lay thereupon secret in (g) Ibid. vers. 8. & 9 a Cave upon Mount Horreb. in the wilderness at the time of his foresaid complaining that he was left alone, the which he then uttered not generally but in regard only of that country of Israel which was the kingdom of Achab (wherein he then a stranger lay secret) as appeareth most plainly aswell in that God himself accordingly answered his said complaint, with like respect to that only country, saying as is objected, (h) Ibid. vers. 18. I have left to me in Israel 7000. etc. as also for that in those very times the Church did greatly flourish in the other next adjoining kingdom of juda, and was as then to him there, both known and visible, under two good kings Asa and josaphat, who reigned even in the time (i) 1 Of Kings. 22, 41. of Achab: at what time the number of the faithful was there so exceeding great, that the soldiers only were numbered to many (k) 2. Chron. 14, 8, 9 & 17, 14, 15.16, 17, 18, 19 hundredth thousands: so visible and known was the Church at that time, and so evident withal is the truth of this our answer, that this very objection, is in this sort answered and refelled, not only by (l) Mr. Clapham in his sovereign remedy against schism pa. 17. paulo post med. saith. Our ignorant reformists say, the Church was invisible in the time of Helias▪ whereto he answereth saying, the holy Ghost recordeth Helias to have spoken this against Israel, not against juda, for as he knew that good josophat at that time reigned in juda: So he well knew that there, was not only the Church visible, but also mightily reform. & vide ibid. page 18. initio. & circa med. Mr. Henoch Clapham an English Protestant, but also (as certain of our other adversaries do thereat (m) Benedict morgenstern. in tract. de Ecclesia pag. 4. saith: Mirum quod Philippus ea quae dicuntur de invisibili Ecclesia ita prorsus reijcit, ut illud etiam Domini verbum ad Eliam, reliqui mihi 7000 etc. ad visibilem Ecclesiam detorqueat. complain) even by Philip Melancthon. (n) Melancthon in corpore doctrinae. page 530. and that the Church's Pastors & Doctors should for so many ages together be in being and withal unknown, is yet otherwise at the least in itself inexplicable if not contradictory, for what do our adversaries affirm to be the reason of this their pretended latency, a●l they can allege is persecution. But against this we say 1. First that the Church's persecution maketh her the more known, for who are persecuted but known men, this Mr. Ca●thwright confesseth calling therefore the Church under persecution. (o) Mr. Carthwrite in Mr. Whitgiftes defence etc. page 174. paulo post med. And he saith there further: What a conclusion is this, the Church were few in number because they were under the Cross etc. To let pass both scriptures and stories Ecclesiastical, have you forgotten what is said in the first of Exodus, that the more the children of Israel were persecuted the more they increased. visible and sensible, for else (saith he) how could it be persecuted and Mr. jewel saith accordingly, (p) Mr. jewel in his reply page 506. circa med. And see Mr. jewel in his defence of the Apology printed 1571. page 33. & 34. the Church is placed upon a Mount her Persecutions cannot be hid. In clear demonstration whereof, it is evident, that although the primitive Church during the first 300 years, after Christ, endured (q) Hereof see Mr. Fox in his acts & monuments Printed 1576. from page 34. till page 86. describing the first ten Persecutions. And see the century writers of Magdeburg. Cent. 1. l. 2. c. 2. col. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. & Cent. 2. c. 2. col. 10. 11. 12. 15. 16. 17. 18. 20. 21. 22. etc. & Cent. 3. c. 3. col. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. etc. incomparably the most universal and violent persecutions that ever were, (yet the same notwithstanding) our adversaries (r) Centur. 1. & Cent. 2. & 3. throughout. And Pantaleon in Chronogra. & Functius in Chronolog & Osiander Cent. 1. 2. & 3. & Fox act. mon. in his discourse of the ten first Persecutions of the primitive Church. And Dresserus in millenar. 5. pag 11. & 12. And of the sundry councils or Synods then assembled and had. See Mr. Fulks book de successione Ecclesiastica, contra Stapletonum. pa. 246 ante med. the century writers, and sundry otherrs, do at this day take certain and particular notice, of the Catholic Bishops and Pastors by name in every of those ages, of their administration of the Word and Sacraments, and their open impugning of Heresies. 2 Secondly we say that for so much as (according to many before (s) See heretofore tracked 2. c. 2. sect. 1. recited plain testimonies from scriptures and Protestants) it is evident & confessed that the Church is to continue so known, that all men (t) See heretofore tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 1. l. c. and in the margin there. careful of their saluatio may know where the true Church is, and to which company they ought to adhere: that therefore no force or persecution of man can or shall be able to dissolve (*) Act. 5, 39 If this work be of God you are not able to dissolve it. or make frustrate the ordinance of God made in this behalf. 3 Thirdly we say that even common understanding argueth this invincible, from the very nature of the Church, for we must needs affirm of the Church under Persecution, that either she doth in some sort or other make profession of her faith, and also openly refrain the external communion of all Idolatry, false doctrine, and sacraments, or else that she doth not profess and refrain as beforesaid, if the latter, than (as appeareth most evidently by the premises) (v) See heretofore tracked 2. c. 2. sect. 1. she is not the true Church: if the first then is she thereby made known and visible, for besides her foresaid profession consisting in administration of the Word and Sacraments, and impugning of errors; which being done (though never so privately) is impossible (¶) Humfred. in jesuitismi. part. 2. rat. 3. page 241. initio. saith hereof. Dum Ministri docent, alij discunt, illi Sacramenta administrant, hij Communicant, omne Deum invocant, & fidem suam profitentur, qui ista non videt talpa est caecior. etc. to be in so many countries kept secret, for any smaller time, much less for so many ages together, her only foresaid open refraining or recusancy (whereto she is by the judgement of Protestants (x) That Protestants think themselves bound to avoid the open profession of our Catholic faith and communion of our Sacraments, is made more than evident by their recusancy, to be so much as present only at our service whereof more is s●ide hereafter. tract. 3. sect. 1. in the margin at the letter c. no less in duty bound) lieth evermore open to be discerned, and by how much the persecution is more grievous, so much the less can this recusancy be kept secret or unespied, as appeareth most plainly by that small resemblance had thereof in the example (y) For if during but the last 20. years, we of this one nation in comparison but few, could not so escape the mileder search of Protestant Magistrates, but that by our only recusancy we were daily discerned, could then all Christians supposed to be dispersed through out so many nations of the world, escape for so many hundredth years together, that inquisition of our Church, which Protestants affirm to have been universal and far more grievous. only of our own times and nation. A CONFUTATION OF THOSE WHO AN swear that their Church's administration of the word and Sacraments, continued during all those several age's in being and also known and that as now through the injury of later times no testimony or notice thereof is to us at this day remaining. SECT. 9 IF now any of our adversaries do disclaim in urging as before the foresaid example of Helias, and in the foresaid opinion of affirming their Ch●rch to have been for so many ages in being, but yet unknown, & will now in steed thereof lastly say, (which is all that can be imagined to be left for them unsaid) that their Church's Pastors and Doctors, their impugning of errors, their administration of the word and sacraments were in every of those foresaid ages known, and visible to the world, though now sithence, all testimony and record thereof is through the late violence of the Pope and his clergy utterly suppressed and made away, the idle vanity of this conceit is many ways discoverable. As, 1 First in that it is but a mere imagination whereof is neither testimony nor proof. 2 Secondly in that all proof and experience is most clearly and directly to the contrary, as appeareth by example of hus, and Wicliffe, whose (¶) Of the writings of hus and Wicliffe yet extant, and printed at Noriberg. See junius his Animaduersiones ad controversiam quintam etc. de membris Ecclesiae militantis, quam Bellarminus exaravit etc. l. 1. page 14. circa med. And Illiricus in Catallog. testium veritatis page 847. & 850. prope finem. maketh like mention of their writings yet extant. And mr. Fox act. mon. printed 1596 mentioneth W●cliffes writings page 428. a. lin. 35 and so likewise doth Crispinus in his treatise of the estate of the Church page 419. initio. And Mr. Fulk saith. Nondum interierunt B●rtrami, Valdi, joannis a Gandavo, Wiclevi, Hussi plena pietatis ac Christianae doctrinae monumenta Fulke contra Stapletonun de successione ecles. pag. 308. initio. and ibid. pa. 349 initio. he saith. scripta W●cleu●, Bertrami, Hussi etc. extant. & vide page 320. writings are yet extant: also to our adversaries, by like example of their other foresaid alleged epistle of Vlrike in defence of Priest's marriage, of Charlemaine's book against images: and of Bertrames book concerning the Sacrament: in like manner by the decrees of our Catholic councils daily condemning and reciting all such arising opinions as were contrary to the same, likewise by the many and ample now extant volumes of our Catholic writers in every age reciting in like manner, and at large confuting all appearing Doctrines contrary to the Roman Church. Lastly (as Mr. Whitaker confesseth) by our ecclesiastical (*) Mr. Whittaker contra Duraeum. l. 7. page 469. prope initium. observing for true that all opinions contrary to the Roman Church are mentioned by our historiographers, and being enforced for the upholding of the protestāns Church, to make claim almost to all such as in any sort resisted the Pope (whereof see heretofore tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 2.) saith deinde post Apostasia● invectam, & tirannidem Antichristi constitutam, nullus unquam historiam scripsit, qui non ecclesiae nostrae doctrinam, mores instituta, semitia adversarios commemoret ita vestris historijs nostrae Ecclesiae memoria viget: & qui Pontificij regnires narrare conati sunt, ij nostrae ecclesiae testes sunt. etc. historiographers of every age, who make this the very argument of their writing: in so much that nothing is as now better known to us, then that which the Church of Rome hath heretofore impugned, and many an heretic is hereby likewise m●de noted and infamous to all succeeding age●, whose better obscurity would otherwise have been buried in forgetfulness. And that all this is most true is yet furthermore so evident, that our very adversaries them sel●es, do from hence take notice, and in there own writings (z) This is at large performed and set down by the Divines of Magdeburg. in their several Centuries. by Pantaleon in his Chronographia. by Luc. Osiander in his epitome. eccles. hist. and by Illiricus in his hook entitled Catallogus testium veritatis qui ante nostram aetatem reclamarunt Papae. And see further hereof Mr. Whitaker contra Duraeum. page 276. initio. & 469. aunt medium. make mention of the daily opinions condemned in every age by the Church of Rome, of which opinones certain also (which maketh this point most evident) were often times even some one or other special Doctrine (*) Besides the foresaid examples of several doctrines of the Protestants reported and condemned in Waldo, Berrengarius, Wicliffe and Husse. See also heretofore tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 3. in the margin under the letters n. o. The other like examples of sundry articles of the Protestants faith, mentioned and condemned in other confessed Heretics, as namely in PETER BRVIS, Almericus, the Albigenses and the Apostolici. so plainly were the Protestants several doctrines, not purposely suppressed or passed over in silence, but in all times (ever as they appeared) specially recorded and condemned. now sithence taught by Protestants, and heretofore severally professed by so●e one or other particular condemned person of those times: 3. Thirdly (supposing with Protestants that their Church is a true Church) it is against manifest scripture, which testifieth of the true Church that (a) Esay. 60, 20. her son should not be set nor her moon hid: that she (b) Daniel. 2, 44. should not be given to an other people, but should stand for ever, as (c) Esay. 60, 15, 16. an eternal glory and joy from generation to generation. 4 Lastly it is against the evident confession of our learned adversaries who acknowledge their own Church to have been (in regard of external profession) for many hundredth years past (d) See before tract. 2. c. 1. sect. 4 post medium. invisible and (e) See Mr. john Nappeire upon the revalations in c. 12. page 161. col. 3 circa medium. withdrawn from open assemblies to the hearts of particular godly men. THAT EVEN LUTHER HIMSELF WAS no member of the English Protestant's Church: nor professor of their Religion. SECT. 10. LIKE as it appeareth by the premises, that our adversaries are not able to find out any testimony or proof of their Church's administration of the word, and sacraments for so many several ages before Luther, their principal examples of Waldo, Wicliffe, Husse etc. being heretofore discovered for altogether insufficient, so likewise in further evidence we will now show, the like insufficiency also even in the very example of Luther himself: concerning whom we will endeavour two special points, the First that Luther never was of the English Protestants now faith and religion. Secondly that though he were, yet is his example therein of no force in this behalf: not for so much as for his own time. Now concerning the First namely that our adversaries may not challenge Luther to have been of their now Church and religion, appeareth by his sundry gross and confessed errors, wherein they are enforced to disclaim. As for example 1 First concerning the success and preservation of our Christian profession in general: he affirmed and taught (to the great danger thereof) that (f) Luther in assertionibus damnat. per Leonem decimum Artic. 34. which was praeliari adversus Turcas est repugnare Deo visitanti iniquitates nostras per illos. And in explicat. articuli. 34. he saith among his other defence thereof. Ite praeliamini contra Turcas ut resistatis virgae Dei, & cadatis sicut & Achab cecidit. And in epistola contra duo mandata imperialia (he further saith) Oro cunctos pios Christianos, ne ullo modo sequamur vel in militiam●re vel dare aliquid contra Turcas, quandoquidem Turca decies prudentior probiorque est quám Principes nostri. to war against the Turks, was to resist God visiting our sins by them: the which opinion he did also afterwards more at large defend, concluding and saying (g) Luther in explicat. Art. 34. prope finem. and hereof see the treatise against the defence of the censure page. 230. ante med. & 231. initio. Luther in his book de bello contra Turcas, affirmeth that the Devil by God's permission did govern & hinder the councils and assemblies of the Princes of Germany for no other cause, but that his article of not warring against the Turk might remain in force and uncondenned. He that hath ears to hear let him hear, and abstain from the Turkish wars whiles the Pope's name prevaileth under heaven: I have said: And whereas Doctor Fulke doth excuse all this, as (h) Mr. Fulke in his Apology of the professors of the Gospel etc. against Peter Frarine page 31. initio. meant of those Christians which were under the Turks Dominion: It is so directly against the scope and (*) His former mention of God visiting our sins by the Turk and likewise of the Pope, and also of the Princes of Germany, and the whole passage of his treatise made thereof at large, avoideth this answer, in so much as the author against the defence of the censure page 231. laboureth to excuse Luther otherwise. circumstance of Luther's words, that Roff nsis (i) Roffensis in confut. Assert. Luther. printed 1523. Art. 34. did therefore write specially against this his foresa●d doctrine, at large reciting and confuting his reasons: which foresaid doctrine of Luther was also so known & (*) Hereof see Belforest in Cosmogra l. 2. c. 7. col. 579. grateful to the Turk, that as (Luther's own scholar reporteth) (k) Manlius in loc. common. pag. 636. fine. the Turkish Emperor (to the great shame of Luther hearing thereof) demanded our Christian Ambassador how oul● Luther was, and wished him younger, promising to be his good Lord. And the Duke of Saxony (a professor of Luther's doctrine) was accordingly charged, (l) Hereof see Sleidan. l. 18. fol. 277. ante med as being confederate with the Turk. In so much has Erasmus (whom our adversaries think to have been indifferently (m) Act. mon. pa. 404. a. fine. affected towards Luther) saith hereof (n) Erasmus in epistola ad fratres inferioris Germaniae. pag. 39 many of the saxons following that first doctrine of Luther, denied to Cesar and King Ferdinando aid against the Turk etc. and said they had rather fight for a Turk not baptised, then for a Turk baptised, thereby meaning the Emperor. 2 Secondly concerning the Canonical scriptures it is evident that Luther denied sundry confessed parts thereof: concerning the Apocalypse Bullenger giveth testimony saying. (o) Bullenger upon the apocalypse englished c. 1. serm. 1. fol. 2. a. post med Doctor Martin Luther hath as it were sticked this book● by a sharp preface set before his first aedition of the new Testament in dutch, for which his judgement good and learned men were offended with him: and concerning the epistle of S. james, Luther saith thereof. (p) Luther prefat. in epist. jacobi in aeditione jenensi. The Epistle of james is contentious. swelling, dry, straw, & unworthy an Apostolical spirit. In so much as liliricus Luther's scholar expresseth and defendeth Luther's foresaid judgement saying. (q) Illiricus prefat. in jacobum. Luther in his preface upon S. james epistle giveth great reasons why this epistle ought in no case to be accounted for a writing of Apostolic authority unto which reasons I think every godly man ought to yield, which foresaid judgement of Luther concerning these, and other parts of the new Testament is yet to this day so continued and defended by Luther's own scholars, that (to omit sundry (r) See Pomeran. in epist. ad Rom. c. 4. And Vitus Theodorus in Annot. in nou. test. pag. vlt. And the century writers of Magdeburg. Cent. 1. l. 2. c. 4. & cent. 2. l. 3. c. 4. And Hastenrefferus in loc. theologic. l. 3. stat. 3. loc 7. page 292. And Adamus Francisci in Margarita theologic. page 448. saith: Apocriphi libri novi testamenti sunt epistola ad haebreos, epistola jacobi, secunda & tertia joannis, posterior Petri, epistole judae & Apocalip. other of them) Chemnitius (Luther's greatest scholar) affirmeth that (s) Chemnitius in Enchirid. etc. page 63. And see Chemnitius in his examen. Concil. Trident. part. 1. page 55. the second epistle of Peter, the second and third of john, the epistle to the hebrews, the epistle of james, the epistle of Jude and the apocalypse of john are apocryphal as (t) Chemnitius examen part. 1. page 56. b. initio. not having sufficient testimony of their authority, and therefore that (v) Chemnitius ibidem page 57 a. nothing in controversy may be proved out of these books Concerning now the other books of scripture, although Luther acknowledged them for canonical, how far yet he was changeable otherwise in miss translating them, we will (omitting particulars) refer to the credit of Zuinglius his testimony, who saith hereof to Luther. (*) Zuinglius. tom. 4. ad Luther. l. de sacram. page 411. & 412. Thou dost corrupt (Luther) the word of God, thou art seen to be a manifest and common corrupter and perverter of the holy scripture, how much are we ashamed of thee, who have hitherto esteemed thee beyond all measure, and now prove thee to be so false a man. 3 Thirdly as concerning faith, he reproveth as well such Protestant's as say (x) Luther upon the Galathians englished in c. 2. fol. 67. b. post med. nei●h●r can faith be true faith without charity, as also those other who teach (y) Luther ibid. fol. 67. circa medium. though my faith be never so perfect, yet if this sait● be without charity I am not justified calling it (z) Luther ibid. fol. 68 b. prope finem. & fol. 126 b. and see Luther in his sermons Englished. etc. page 204. circa med. impiety to affirm that saith except it be adorned with charity iustefieth not, nay ●e proceeded so far, as he doubted not to say, (a) Luther. tom. 1. prop 3. Fides nisi sit sine etc. Faith unless it be without even the lest good works doth not justify, nay it is no faith. which saying of his master D. Covell specially acknowledgeth and reciteth, terming it (b) Mr. Covel. in defence of Mr. hooker's five books of Ecclesiastical policy. page 42. ante med. harsh and (c) Mr. Covel. ibid. justly called in question, by the Church of Rome. He also further taught that (d) Luther de captiu. Babylon. and see further hereof the treatise against the defence of the Censure. page 198. a Christian or Baptized person is so rich, that although he would he cannrt lose his salvation by any sins how great soever, unless he will not believe: whereof he giveth his reason else where saying. (e) Luther in loc. commun. etc. Class. 5. c. 27. page 68 initio. As nothing iustefieth but faith, so nothing sinneth but unbelief. 4 Fourthly as concerning works: he teachteh (f) Luther in his sermons Englished etc. page 147. ante medium. that work●s take their goodness of the worker: and that (g) Luther ibidem page 276. ante medium. no work● is disallowed of God, unless the author thereof be disallowed before: saying therefore further. (h) Luther ibidem page 278. ante medium. Such a one worketh nothing but good works, neither can it be but good, which he being good before shall do. And as concerning the necessity of good works (affirmed against him by English Protestants) (i) The necessity of good works is affirmed by Mr. Willet in his tetrastilon. Papismi. page 90. fine. by Mr. Fulke against the Rhemish Testament in 2. Petr. 2. sect. 3. fol. 444. a. post med. and by Mr. Whitaker against mr. rainold page 350. post medium. Of the dissension had herein between the Divines of England and the Lutherans in Germany, special report and mention is made, in colloquio Altenburgens. fol. 168 a. fine. And also in acts colloquij Adelburgensis page 102. circa med. & 483. circa medium. it is so far disclaimed in by him and his followers. that they deny (k) Illiricus in prefat. ad Rom. & vide Conradum Schlusselburg. in cattle. hereticorum l. 13. & vlt. pag. 819. circa med. good works to be so much as causa s●ne qua non of salvation, affirming (l) Illiricus in prefat. ad Rom. And see colloquium Altenburgense. fol. 210. a. b. & 231. 324. 382. & 352. the controversy with the Papists to be (not only) whether good works do justify, (but also) whether they be in any respect necessary to salvation: which last position they call (m) Illiricus ubi supra. a papistical error: terming it (n) Illiricus. ibidem. the doctrine of the new Papists as pernicious as the old, to say (as English Protestants do) that the Apostle meant to exclude good works from justification, not simply and as due, but only as meritorious and cause efficient: they will not in the point of our justification grant (o) Conradus Schlusselburg. in cattle. Hereticorum. l. 13. in epist. dedicatoria pa. 22. paulo post med. good works to be necessary (necessitate presenti●) so much as with a necessity of presence: condemning their brethren's contrary doctrine for (p) Illiricus de originali justicia ac iniusticia in appendice page 163. worse than is the Papists doctrine concerning good works: they fortify themselves herein with the testimonies (q) See Luther's sayings alleged in acts colloquij Aldeburgensis pa. 8. circa med. and in Illiricus in prefat. ad Rom. of Luther, and have proceeded so far against all necessity of good works, that some of them (as namely Amsdorphius) doubt not to affirm, that (r) Hereof see acta colloquij Aldeburgensis page 120. sect. 11. initio. And pag. 443. paulo post initium. & pag. 293. paulo ante medium. good works are not only, not necessary to salvation, but also hurtful to it. (s) Vide ibid. pag. 205. post med. & fine. alleging Luther in proof of this opinion. (t) Vide ibid. pag. 120 sect. 11. initio. & 293. paulo ant● medium. the which Illiricus doth allow and defend by public writing. And all this so grossly and intolerably, that sundry other Protestant writers, who acknowledge Amsdorphius (v) D. Amsdorphius piae memoriae. so called ibidem pag. 206. circa med. for a man (otherwise) of godly memory do yet nevertheless in this, profess to (x) Ibid. pag. 205. fine. & 206. initio. It is said hereof nos quidem ipsos (Lutherum & Amsdorphium) interse committimus, hanc propositionem non usurpaturi. leave both him and Luther to themselves. 5 As concerning marriage and divorce: Luther saith: (y) Luther in serm. de matrimonio. Si non vult uxor, aut non possit, veniat ancilla: If the wife will no●, or can not come, let the maid come: and whereas Mr. Whitaker (who would make the best gloze hereof) answereth (z) Mr. Wh●taker in respons. ad rat. Campiani rat. 8. pag. 150. circa med saith thereof. Lutheri autem istam de ho● divortij genere sententiam, ego minime defendo. hereunto, that Luther hereby meant first to divorce and then after to marry the maid, yet is this divorce (though upon such foresaid occasion either of infirmity or wilfulness) utterly rejected (a) Whitaker ibidem ut supra & contra Duraeum l. 8. pag. 687. fine. even by Mr. Whitaker himself: and nevertheless Luther was so vehement against the wives froward refusal of her husbands bed, that he further saith thereof, (b) Luther tom. 5. Witteberg serm. de matrimonio fol. 123. a. verius sinem. See also Luther's words cited in the treatise against the defence of the censure pag. 219. post med. the Magistrates duty is to bridle this wife, yea and to put her to death, this if the Magistrate omit, the husband must imagine that his wife is stolen away by thieves, and dead, and consider how to marry, an other: (for saith he yet further, (c) See the foresaid treatise against the defence of the Censure page 213. prope finem. And see Luther tom. 5. Witteberg. in 1. Cor. 7. fol. 113. a. initio we cannot stop St. Paul's mouth etc. his words are plain that a brother or sister are free from the law of wedlock if the one depart or do not consent to dwell with the other, neither doth he say that this may be done once only, but leave it free, that so often as the case shall require he may either proceed or stay: in which case (as he signifieth) a man (d) See the treatise against the defence of the Censure page 213. paulo post med. And see Luther tom. 5. Witteberg. fol. 112. b. fine. may have ten or more wives stedd from him and yet living: nay he doubteth not in case of adultery committed by a married man or married woman to give liberty even to the offending adulterer (e) In aliam profugere treram. maechus potest, ibique si continere nequeat uxorem ducere rursum. Luther tom. 5. Witteberg serm. de matrimonio. fol. 123. a. initio to flee into an other country and marry again: so dangerously doth he incline to polygamy, the which (to be sparing herein to his other (*) Musculus in epist. Pauli ad Philip. Colloss. etc. in 1. Tim. 3. page 396. circa med. thinketh that polygamy was tolerated by the Church in the Apostles times. and see the Alphabetical table there at the word (polygamy) And see polygamy defended by Bernardinus Ochinus l. 2 dial. 21. page 200. & 204 commended in the treatise of the life and death of Peter Martyr (aunt med.) for an excellent & learned man. scholars) himself else where seemeth to defend, affirming that (f) Luther in propositionibus de Bigamia Episcoporum aedit. Anno. 1528 propositione 62. 65 66. & vide Lutherum in explicatione Geneseos edit. Anno. 1525. in Commentario. c. 16 polygamy is no more abrogated, then is the rest of Moses law, and that it as free, as being neither commanded nor forbidden: in respect whereof he signifieth that (g) Luther. in Genes. c. 16. edit. Anno. 1525. he will neither bring in polygamy nor condemn it: which foresaid errors concerning marriage, divorce, and polygamy were so plain and gross in Luther, that (h) Wicelius in his method. concordiae Ecclesiasticae c. 9 initio saith. Reducat ad calculum Lutheri factio & retractet quae portenta & quam non pudicè admodum scripta ediderit, de coniugio, de divortijs, de it●rādo post divortia, de gradibus, de poligynecia populi etc. Wicelius (a learned Protestant) doth therefore specially charge and reprove him. 6 As concerning Magistracy, how fully, plainly and directly he impugned the same (especially before the Princes of Germany had undertaken the defence of his doctrine) is by his own writings more then manifest, (i) See hereafter tract. 3. sect. 5. in the margin at the figure 3. and hereafter in part from thence declared: only now I will add as not altogether improper hereunto the base and invective calumniations wherewith he charged (to omit sundry other Princes and Magistrates) our late sovereign K. HENRY the 8. of famous memory calling him (k) Luther in libro contra Rege Angl. in prefat. an envious mad fool, babbling with much spittle in his mouth (l) In the same book extant in tom. 2. Wittenberg fol. 333. & 334. more furious than madness itself, more doltish than folly itself, endued with an impudent and whorish face without any one vain of Princely blood in his body, a lying s●phiste, a damnable rotten worm, a Basilisk and progeny of an adder, a lying scurrile covered with the title of a King, a clownish wit, a doltish head, most wicked foolish and impudent Henry. and saying further (m) Ibid. fol. 338. he doth not only lie like a most vain scurre, but passeth a most wi●ked knave: (n) Ibid. fol. 339. & vide 442. thou liest in thy thro●e foolish & sacriligious● King. Whereunto might be added his exceeding many othe●moe like despiteful and sturgill words used against his Majesty, some of them being so immodestly base, (o) Ibidem fol. 333. & 337. where he saith. Ius mihi erit Maiestatem tuam Angelicam stercore conspergere (and.) Sit ergo mea haec generalis responsio ad omnes sentinas insulsissimae huius laruae (&) haec sunt Robora nostra adverius quae obtumeseere coguntur, Henrici, Thomistae, Papistae, & quicquid est faecis, sentinae, latrinae, impiorum & sacrilegorum eiusmodi: Sordes istae & labes hominum Thomistae & Henrici sacrilegus Henricorun & asinorum cultus: furor insulsissimorum asinorum & Thomisticorum porcorunos vestrae dominationis impurum est sacrilegum. W th' infinite more such like. as we are ashamed to english them. 7 Concerning the administration of the word and sacraments he maketh it common to lay men with the clergy, s●ing to this end (p) Luther tom. 2. l. de ministris Ecclesiae instituendis fol. 362. & vide ibid. l. de abroganda Missa privata. & in libro de captiu. Babylon. c de ording. And see Hospinianu● in hist. sacramentar. page 22. paulo post med. the first office of a Priest is to Preach the word & ●. But this is common to all, next is to Baptize, and this also may all do even women etc. The third is to Consecrate bread and wine, But this also is common to all no less than Priests, and this, fawneth by the authority of Christ himself, saying, do this in remembrance of me, this Christ spoke to all there present and to come afterwards whosoever should eat of that Br●ad and drink of that Wine etc. this also is witnessed by St. Pau●e, who .1. cor. 11. repeating this, apply it to all the Corinthians: making them all a● himself was, that is to say Cons●crators: &. if then that which is greater than all be given indifferently to all men and women, (I mean the word and Baptism) then, that which is less. (I mean to Consecrate the supper) is also given to them. And the like doctrine doth he affirm no less plainly (q) Luther in assertionibus damnatis per Leonem decimum art. 13. saith. In sacramento poenitentiae ac remissione culpae, non plus facit Papa, ●piscopus, quam infimus Sacerdos. Immo ubi non est Sacerdos aeque tantum quilibet Christianus etiamsi mulier aut puer estet etc. quod autem absent Sacerdote etiam puer aut mulier & quilibet Christianus absoluere potest Mat. 18. clare patet ubi Christus omnibus Christianis dicit quodcun que solueritis super terram solutum erit in coelis, hanc invictam authoritatem non mihi subvertent. And see further in loc. common. class. 2. page 136. & 138. in other of his writings, being (as Mr. D. Covel. affirmeth) (r) Mr. Covel. in his defence of Mr. hooker's 5. books of ecclesiastical policy Art. 15. pag. 101 post med. And see Luther de Missa privata. editio. Anno. 1534. And see Hospinianus in histor. sacramentar. page 22. paulo post medium. not afraid to affirm that sacraments are affectual t●ough administered by Satan himself: this did Luther write against the POPE, though else where to serve his own turn against the Anabaptistes (who used the very same weapon against him) he presseth and chargeth them for their want of ordinary calling: so variable, (*) Zuinglius in responsione ad confessionem Lutheri saith. Lutherus nunc hoc nunc illud de eadem repronunciat, nec usquam sibi constat, haud dub●é ea inconstantia & levitate in Dei verbo vtendum esse existimat, qua effrictae frontis scurrae, inter aleam uti consueverunt. inconstant, and temporizing (as occasion requiered) was he in his doctrine. 8 Concerning the sufficiency of our redemption by our saviours Passion in his human nature upon the Cross, Luther taught thus far to the contrary, as that not (2) Luther in confession maiore de caena Domini. saith: Cum credo quod sola humuna natura pro me passa est, Christus ille vilis nec magni praetij salvator est: Immo ipse quoque saluatore opus habet. only the human nature of Christ suffered for us, for (saith he) in affirming but so much, (3) Luther ut ●upra. Christ is a Saviour of vile and small account, and needeth himself also a Saviour. But also that (4) Luther libro de concilijs part. 2. saith of the Zwinglians Pertinacissi●●é contra me pugnabant, quod divinitas Christi pati non posset. etc. And see Luther further. tom. 3. germ. jen. fol. 455. b. the Divinity of Christ did suffer which his opinion of the Godhead suffering is admired and yet further taught by Andrea's (5) Silvester Czecanorius in dial. de corruptis moribus utriusque partis fol. 5. saith. Andrea's Musculus non veritus fuit palám docere divinam Christi naturi, q●●e Deu● est, vn● cum human anatura mortuam fuisse in Cruse etc. nec destirit. etc. id dogma de mortua divinitate publi●è profiteri ac spargere, adiutore joanne Islebio. M●s●ulus and sundry (6) Nichol●us Seluecerus in confut. accusat. sol. 192. saith. Nemo dicere posset vel debet D●um non este p●ssum vel mortuum: And the same doctrine is in like manner affirmed by Stephanus Gerlachius contra Busaeum pag. 24. & 126. And by jacobus Andreas. Whereof see in Respons. ad acta colloq●. Montisbelgar. pag. 82. versus finem. & 92. versus finem. other of Luther's scholars, and so intolerably and grossly, that they are therefore the●in specially (7) Beza in epistolis theologicis. ep. 60 initio. And after the Geneva Print of Anno. 1573. pag. 285. saith. Non potest a nobis satis bene disputari de sententia Islebij & Musculi Andreae, contendentium Christum in utraque natura passum esse etc. istorum sententia Prophetarum & Apostolorum & ominum orthodoxorum sanae doctrinae adversari videtur. Whereupon he doth at large confate that opinion there. pag. 286. 287. 291. And see Beza hereof further in respons. ad acta colloquij Mentisbelgar part. 1. pag. 82. versus finem. & 92. versus finem. And Silvester Czecanorius ut supra at 5. and Luther ut supra at 4. contradicted by divers other learned Protestants. 9 Concerning his contempt of the ancient Fathers and his own great undertaken knowledge: he saith. (s) Luther in libro ad Ducem Georgium. And Luther ad cap. 1. ad Galatas. saith: Esto, Ecclesia, Augustinus, & alij Doctores, item Petrus, Apollo, imo Angelus e coelo diversum doceant, tamen mea doctrina est eiusmomodi quae solius Dei gloriam illustrate etc. Petrus Apostolorum summus, vivebat & docebat extra verbum Dei. And after the English translation fol. 33. b. paulo post med. & 34. a. initio. since the Apostles times no Doctor or writer hath so excellently, and clearly, confirmed instructed and comforted, the consciences of the secular States as I have done: By the singular grace of God this certainly I know, that neither Austin, nor Ambros, who are yet in this matter the best, are equal to me herein. And again (t) Luther in serm. de eversione Jerusalem. the Gospel is so copiously preached by us, that truly in the Apostles time it was not so clear In what strange manner he contemneth, Origen, Athanasius, chrysostom, Basill, Cyprian, Hierome, and Gregory: I pass over as being else where (v) See this in Gasper Vkenbergius in his book entitled, graves & iustae causae, cur Catholicis in Communione veteris eiusque veri Christianismi constantèr usque ad vitae finem, permanendum sit etc. Printed Anno. 1589. causa. 7. pag. 175. & 176. And see Coccius his thesaurus tom. 1. pag. 1118. b. collected specially from his own particular sayings over tedious and unworthy here to rehearse. How highly he esteemeth of such doctrine as himself collecteh from the scriptures and how much he preferreth himself therein before the Fathers, himself signifieth saying (x) Luther tom. 2. l. contra Regem Angliae. fol. 342. Gods word is above all, the Divine Majesty maketh for me, so as I pass not if a thousand Austin's, a thousand Cyprian's, a thousand King Harrie Churches stood against me. Nay he doubteth not in plain terms to exempt (y) Luther adversus falso nominatum ecclesiasticum statum saith: Scire vos volo quod in posterum non amplius vos hoc honore dignabor, ut sinan vel vos, vel ipsos Angelos de coelo, de mea doctrina judicare etc. nec volo meam doctrinam a quoquam judicari, atque adeo ne ab Angelis quidem, cum enim certus de ea sim, per eam quoque & vester & Angelorum judex esse volo. his doctrine from all judgement of men & Angels, making himself thereby judge of both: and will our English Divines allow this in the doctrines of Real presence, Images etc. wherewith they charge (z) Hereof see Mr. Bridges in his defence of the government etc. pag. 559. Mr. Perkins in his four treatises how to apply God's word etc. sect. 10. initio. And see Mr. Whitgiftes defence. etc. pag. penult. and reprove Luther. 10 As concerning the implacable contentions between him & the zwinglians or Caluinists (to whom our English Divines adhere) and how they disclaimed each in other Luther expresseth saying. (a) Luther contra Articulos Lovanienses. thess. 27. tom. 2. Wittenberg. fol. 503. And in epistola ad jacobum Presbiterum he further saith. Beatus vir qui non-abijt in concilio Sacramentariorum, nec stetit in via Zuinglianorun, nec sedet in cathedra Tigurinorun, habes quid sententiam. We censure in earnest the zwinglians and all the Sacramentaries for Hereti●k●s and alienated from the Church of God: and (b) See Luther. tom. 7. Wittenberg. fol. 380. 381 & 382. I do protest before God and the world that I do not agree with them nor ever will while the world standeth, but will have my hand, clear from the blood of those sheep, which these Heretics do drive from Christ, deceive, and k●ll And again in the same place: Cursed be the charity and con●ord of Sacramentnries', for ever and ever to all eternity. And a little before his death, he protesteth saying. (c) Luther de caena Domini tom. 2. Germ. fol. 174. And see this a so reported by the Tigurine Divines in confess orthodox Ecclesiae. Tigur. tract. 3. fol. 108. And Luther tom. 3. Germ. fol. 264. calleth them Persons condemned in their own knowledge with whom he will have no intercourse neither by letters writings or words. I having now one of my feet in the grave, will carry thi● testimony and glory to the tribunal of God, that I will with all my heart condemn and eschew Carobastadius, Zuinglius, O●colampadius and their scholars, nor have wi●h any of them familiarity, neither by letter or writings, neither by words nor deeds accordingly as the Lord ha●h commanded. with infinite much more to the same effect: To make this more evident as yet by the like answerable testimonies of the zwinglians and calvinists: The Tygurine, Divines say hereof (d) Tigurini tract. 3. contra supremam Lutheri confessionem pag. 61. And the Author of the treatise against the defence of the censure doth hereupon charge Luther with breach of all Christian modesty & immoderate zeal. pag. 155 circa med. even far beyond the bonds of charity and modesty. page 101. ante med. Nos condemnatam & execrabilem vocat sectam etc. Luther calleth us a damnable and execrable sect, But let him look that he do not declare himself an Archereticke, seeing he will not nor cannot have any s●cietie with those that confess Christ: But how marvelously doth Luther here bewray himself with his devils? What filthy words doth he use, and such as are replenished with all the devils in hell? For he saith that the Devil dwelleth both now and ever in the Zuinglianes, and that they have a blasphemous breast insathanized, supersathanized, and persathanized, and that they have besides a most vain mouth, over which Satan beareth rule, being infused, perfused, and transfused to the same: did ever man hear such speeches pass from a furious Devil himself? In so much as Zuinglius saith of him, (e) Zuinglius in respons. ad confessionem Lutheri saith. En ut totum istum hominem Satan occupare conctur. Behold how Satan doth endeavour wholly to possess this man. And Oecolampadius accordingly forewarneth Luther, (f) Oecolampadius in responsione ad cofessionem Lutheri. Lest that being puffed up by Arrogancy and pride, he be seduced by Satan: whereunto might be added sundry other like testimonies: (g) Conradus Regius in libro Germanico contra joannem Hussium de caena Dom. saith. Deus propter peccatum superbiae qua seize Lutherus extulit, quenadmodum pleraqué ipsius scripta testificantur, verum illi spiritum abstulit, uti Prophetis illis. 3. Reg. 22 atque in eius loco iracundun, fostuosum, atque mendacem spiritum dedit. And the Tigurine Divines in confession Germanica impresta. Tiguri. Anno. 1544. in octavo. fol. 3. say. Superioribus diebus edidit Ma●tinus Lutherus librum quem inscripsit (brevis confessio de Sacramento) in quo non obscurè pro hereticis sacramentarijs & sceleratissimis hominibus, habet & condemnat Oecolampadium, Zuinglium & omnes Tigurinos', liber plenus est demonijs, plenus impudicis dicterijs, scatter iracundia & furore. etc. This contention between Luther and his followers on the one party, and the zwinglians or Caluinists on the other is yet further testified not only by the almost infinite many writings (h) Hereof see hereafter tract. 3. sect. 7. in the margin at this mark. *. of one against an other yet daily increasing, but also by the known mutual proscription or banishment (i) Concerning the many examples hereof: see Apolog. modest. ad acta conventus quindecem theologorum torgae nuper habit. pag. 3, 4. & 5. and Osiander in epitome. histor. eccles. centur. 16. part. altera pag. 803 ante med. & 860. initio. & 609. initio. & 735. initio. and Crispinus in his book of the estate of the Church. pag. 697. post medium. And Conradus Schlustelburg. in cattle. hereticorum. l. 13. & vlt. pag. 828. prope finem. & 847. circa med. each of other from their several territories or dominions: So far were they from reputing one an other for members of one and the same Church: 11 As concerning Luther's life and manners, for so much as ●e is so strongly privileged in the opinion of the present time, we will in respect thereof but briefly touch the same, & that also not without great and respective observation as forbearing purposely the credible testimonies in that behalf of Cocleus, Lindanus, Staphilus and other our Catholic writers, to whom his life & manners were well known, and choosing specially to speak thereof from no other testimony then of hi● self and his own dearest scholars. As touching his life before his revolt from our Catholic Church, it is confessed that he as then lived (k) See Simon Voyon upon the catalogue. of the Doctors etc. englished pag. 180. and Luther ad Galat. c. 1. ver. 14. fol 35. a. after the English translation. in his monastery punishing his body with watching, fasting and Prayer. (l) See Luther's own words hereof in his Comentarie upon the epistle to the Galathians in english in c. 1. fol. 35. a. Honoured the Pope of mere conscience: (m) Luther. ibidem. fol. 35. b. kept Chastity, Pou rtie, and Obedience: and (n) Luther. ibid. fol. 35 a. whatsoever (saith he) I did, I did it with a single heart, of good zeal, and for the glory of God, fearing grievously the last day, and desirous to be saved from the bottom of my heart. Whereas afterwards upon his defection from our Church, he was so far from his former course of chastity, that he saith to the contrary (o) Luther tom. 7 in epist. ad Wolfangun etc. fol. 505. He that resolveth to be without a woman, let him lay aside from him the name of a man, making himself a plain Angel or spirit. And again. (p) Luther tom. 5. Witenberg. serm. de matrimo. fol. 119. a. versus finem. quam non est in meis viribus ut vir non s●m etc. As it is not in my power that I should be no man, so it is not in my power that I should be without a woman etc. It is not in our power that it should be either stayed or omitted, but is as necessary as that I should be a man, and more necessary then to eat, drink, purge, make clean the nose etc. (And to omit (*) Luther in colloquijs German. cis c. de matrimonio, saith. ut nemo potestest cibo vel potu carefe, sic fieri nequit, ut aliquis a muliere abstineat. etc. causa haec est, quia in utero mulierum concepti, eo aliti, inde nati lactati & edudati sumus ita ut caro nostra maiori ex part mu lieribus caro sit, & sic plané fieri nequit, ut ab ijs separemur. his other like sayings) yet he further saith. (q) Luther tom. 1. epistolarum latinarum. fol. 334 ad Phillippum. I am burned with the great flame of my untamed flesh, I who ought to be fervent in spirit, am fervent in the flesh, in Lust, sloth etc. eight days are now past, wherein I neither writ, pray, nor study, being vexed partly with the temptations of the flesh, partly with other trouble. (But saith he) It (r) Luther ubi supra. pa. 345. sufficeth that we have known the riches of the glory of God, the Lamb which taketh away the sins of the world, from him sin cannot draw us, although we should commit fornication or kill a thousand times in one day, And being in this case he laboureth not to preserve his former kept chastity by his foresaid punishing his body with Watching, Fasting, and Prayer, before time continued by him in his monastery when he was a Catholic, which course of resistance by prayer, the blessed Apostle (s) 1 Cor. 12, 7 (being so assaulted) instantly used, and thereby prevailed, but unmindful of his former vow, and forbearing as before prayer sometimes even for eight days together, at the last (in speedy accomplishnent of his desire) (t) Melancthon in epist. ad joac. Camer. de D. Lutheri coniugio. It is extant in Melancthons' Consilia evangelica part. 1. pag 37. He married upon the sudden Katherine Bore the Nun, without any communication before had thereof with any of his friends, but having in the evening invited to supper Pomerane, Luke the painter, and Appelles the lawyer, he finished the espousals. A thing then holden so scandalous by (v) Sleidan in his Comenraries in english l. 5. An. 25. fol. 65. b. paulo post med. saith In those days Luther married a Nun, whereby he gave occasion to his adversaries to speak evil of him. An. M. Fulke in his answers to p. frarine's declamation pag 32. ante med. confesses that many men misliked Luther's marriage with a nun in so much as Luther himself. in colloquijs latinis tom. 2. de coniugio saith hereof. Nisi ego clam celebrassem nuptias, omnes impedissent, quia omnes amicissimi clamabant, non illam, sed aliam. report of Sleidan and others that his dearest Melancthon did therefore specially (x) Melancthon his foresaid epistle ad joc. Camer. extant ubi supra. write to a friend of his in excuse thereof, wherein nevertheless he holdeth it (y) Melancthon ubi supra saith. Ac possit fortassis aliquis mirari illum hoc infaelici tempore, bonis & honestis viris ubique graviter laborantibus, non modo non affici simul dolore, sed videri propemodum nihil penitus curare ea mala quae ante oculos versantur. marvelous, that Luther should be so regardless and little touched with grief at the calamity then present, as to undertake that marriage: only he excuseth it with (z) Melancthon ubi supra saith. Atque ego rem hanc sic gestam esse arbitror, est vir iste nequaquam ex ijs qui homines oderunt & congressus fugiunt, quotidianae autem vitae illius usum non ignoras, unde cogitare te cetera quam mescribere melius ut opinor fuerit. Luther's sociable condition of life, and (a) Melancthon ubi supra. What other good matters were these which Melancthon did thus forbear to write, leaving them rather to his friends thought? other matters (thereupon depending and not to be uttered,) which (saith he) are fit for you to imagine then me to write. For (saith he) (b) Melancthon ibid. pag. 38. initio. saith. Ego naturam Lutherum arbitror coegisse ut fieret maritus I am persuaded that Luther was a man enforced to marriage by nature. Hereunto we may add, that Luther lying thus open, acknowledged his (c) In sleidan's Commentaries in English l. 3. An. 21. fol. 29. b. initio. profession not to be of life or manners, but of doctrine: (d) Sleidan ibid. fol. 22 a circa med. wishing that he were removed from the office of preaching, because his manners and life did not answer to his profession: wherein he was so censured of even by Protestants themselves, that (as appeareth by their own report (2) Reported by the Protestant writer Benedict Morgenstern. in tract. de Ecclesia pa. 221. circa med who saith of the calvinists. Si quando volunt indulgere genio non verentur inter se dicere, hody Lutheranicè vivemus. If at any time they would give assent to the provocation of nature, they blush not to say among them s lues, to day we will live Lutheranely. Hereunto we could further add like confessed testimony (3) Conradus Schlusselburg. (a Lutheran Protestant of great note.) and is great an enemy to the Pope as either calvin or Beza, in his theologia Caluinistarum. l. 2. fol. 72. a. circa med. & post med. saith of calvin. Deus manu sua potenti adeo hunc hereticum percussit, ut desperata salute, Demonibus invocatis iurans, execrans, & blasphemans miserimé animam malignam exhalarit: obijt autem calvinus morbo pediculari, vermibus circa pudenda, in apostemate seu ulcere faetentissimo, ●●●●centibus, ita ut nullus assistentium faetorem amplius far posset. Haec publicis scriptis Caluino obijciuntur (in quibus etiam de ipsius ASELGIA, varijs flagitijs, & sodomiticis libidinibus ob quas, stigma ferro cadenti dorso calvini impressum fuerit a magistratu sub quorum vixit ho●renda narr●ntur.) ad quae non video solidan & luculentam aliquam refutationem. etc. Scio & lego Bezam aliter de vita moribus & obitu calvini scribere, cum vero Beza eadem haeresi, & codem ferme peccato nobilitatus sit, ut historia de candida eius meretricula testatur, nemo ipsi in hac part fidem habere potest. And see further there concerning Beza. l. 1 in proemio pag. 4. b. & ibid. pag. 92. a. post med. & b. & 93. a. initio. And Tilmannus Heshutius an other Protestant writer in his book entitled verae & sanae confessionis etc. saith of Beza. Spurcissimis suis moribus dedecori fuit ipsis disciplinis honestis, quique nefandos amores, illicitos concubitus, scortationes, faeda adulteria, sacrilego carmine decantavit orbi, non contentus eo, quod ipse more porci in caeno flagitiosarum libidinum sese volutaret, nisi etiam aures studiosae iwentutis, sua illuuie contaminaret. in this kind even against calvin and Beza. 12 As concerning Luther's confessed instruction from the Devil by sensible conference had with him, we refer the same to his own testimony thereof (e) See in the next section in the margin there at the letters c. d. hereafter more fitly alleged. 13 Lastly (to omit much more that might be said) we will now only allege (which point in general, Zuinglius (*) Zuinglius in responsione ad confessionem Lutheri saith. Lutherus obstinato & devoto animo conceptum semel opinionem persequi & obtinere conatur, nec multum curare solet, quodcunque tandem de re quavis pronunciet, etiamsi vel sibi ipsi vel divini verbi oraculis contradicere deprehendatur: these words of Zuinglius are also in Schlusselburg. in theologia Caluinistarun l. 2. fol. 122. a. fine. reproveth in Luther) certain examples of his wilful frowardness or obstinacy against that which himself acknowledged for true. As where he saith of Communion under both kinds (f) Luther de formula Missae. & vide Lutherum tom. 3. Germanic. fol. 274 And whereas Mr. jewel answereth hereunto in his reply against Mr. Harding pag. 107. post med. that Luther only meant that God's truth should not hang of the authority of man: doth this enable Luther to teach that in despite of the Council we should use either but one kind or neither; which-last were directly against Christ's institution. If the Council should in any case decree this, least of all than would we use both kinds, yea rather in despite of the Council and that decree, we would use either but one kind only or neither, and in no case both. Of like nature is it where he teacheth (g) Luther tom. 2. Germ. fol. 214. that if the Council should grant the Churchmen liberty to marry, he would think that man more in God's grace, who during his life kept three whores than he who married according to the councils decree, and that he would command under pain of damnation, that no man should marry by the permission of such a Council, but should either live chaste, or if that were impossible, than not to despair though he kept a whore. In like manner he saith touching Elevation of the Sacrament (h) Luther in parva confession saith. Elevationem Sacramenti scieban● esse idolatricam sed tamen eam retinebam in Templo Wittebergensi, ut aegré facerem diabolo Carolastadio And see Luther tom. 3. Germ. fol. 55. and in colloqu. mensal. germ. fol. 210. I did know the Elevation of the Sacrament to be idolatrical, (as making for sacrifice) yet nevertheless I did retain it in the Church at Wittenberg, to the end I might despite the Devil Carolastadius, a saying & practise so gross, that Amadus Polanus professor at Basil specially mentioneth, and (i) Amandus' Polanus in Sillogethesium. theolog. p. 464. ante med. reproveth the same: saying further. (k) Amandus' Polanus ibid. saith. Sed nolo plura absurdè dicta Lutheri recensere quae multa sunt, quae tegenda potius quam exagitanda etc. I will not recite more of Luther's absurd sayings, which are many: may this man than be said to be (l) Mr. jewel in his Apology of the Church of England part. 4. c. 4. S. 2. and in his defence of the Apollo●ie printed 1571. page 426. prope finem. a man sent of God to lighten the world (m) See the acts & monuments pag. 416. a. ●uitio the Hleias, Conductor and chariot of Israel: to be reverenced (n) Christus habet primas, habeas tibi Paule secundas, at loca postillos proxima Luther habet. And Ciriacus, Spangenbergius in his dutch book against certain Catholic writers of his time, in the part thereof against Stephanus Agricola, commendeth these verses for true and godly, and such as the Papists must suffer, will they nill they. next after Christ and Paul: (o) Andrea's Musculus in prefat. in libellum Germ. de diabol. tyrannidé: And see Nicholaus Anisdorphius Conc. 8. de Luthero pag. 88 & vide Amsdor. in prefat in primum tomum Lutheri. and Alberus contra Carolastadianos l. 7. b. greater then whom lived not since the Apostles times: (p) Conrade. Schlusselburg. cattle. haeret. l. 13. & vlt. pag. 314. 316. & 489. the Angel and last trumpet of God: whose calling was (q) & immediate and (r) Hereof see Aretius loc. common. de ministerio. loc. 63. pag. 198. circa med. And Lambertus Daneus in Isagog. Xpian. part. 4. l. 2. pag. 36. initio. And Lascius in the book entitled de Russorum, Muscovitarum, & Tartarorum religione. pag. 93. ante med. extraordinary, and his coming specially (s) See the book entitled Antichristus sive pronostici sinis mundi pag. 12. fine. 13. fine. & 86. fine. And Mathias Hoe. in his tract. duo. part. 1. pag. 136. initio. And Conrade. Schluffelburg in cattle. heret. l. 13. pag. 314. & 316. post med. And Michael Neander in libro orbis terrae partium explicatio l. 8. calleth him ●pi. os, Deus aliquis theologorum, quem Deus multo ante per D. Pauli & Hussi os Ecclesiae promisit. foreshowed in the scriptures, and sithence also foretold (t) Hereof see the acts and monuments pag. 339. b. ininitio. and Mr. Fox in Apocall. page 324. and Neander ut supra. by sundry prophecies (of latter times) which went upon the time of Martin Luther. O sin & most hateful sin of former Catholic times which (in God's just judgement) made the world (for the time) subject to such gross illusion. And thus much briefly to show that our English Protestant's may in no sort challenge Luther to have been so much as but a member of their Church. THAT ALSO DURING THE 20 YEARS next before Luther (which are yet in memory of this present age) no example, can be alleged of the Protestants (but only of the Catholic) Churches administration of the word, & Sacraments. SECT. 11. BUT admitting now for the time that Luther had been a member of the Protestants Church, we will as now yet further show, that his example is for all that, of no force to prove a continuance of their Church's administration of the word and sacraments but so much as for that only age in which he lived. Wherein (to make the equity of this our Apology as yet more perspicuous) we will descend from all those foresaid several ages before spoken of, and will as now make examination but of one only peculiar time, and that most evident, as being yet within the memory of this present age, namely the twenty years that were next before Luther's first writing against the Pope, which happened Anno Domini 1520. (f) Act. mon. pag. 402. 〈◊〉 the late and fresh occurrants whereof concerning the matter now in question can not be either mistaken or forgotten, at the least, not in all countries where Christian religion was professed. And for so much as our adversaries do collect and grant from the scriptures, that (g) Mr. Fulke against Heskins, Sanders etc. pag 536. paulo post med. Pastors and Doctors must be in the Church till the end of the world, even (h) Mr. Fulke ubi supra pag. 569. initio from Christ's time to Luther's age. that they shall (i) Mr. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic page 11. initio. always resist all false opinions (k) Mr. Fulke ibid. page 92. ante med. with open reprehension. that (l) Mr. Deering upon the Hebrues in c. 2. vers. 12. lectur. 10. circa med. etc. 3. lectur 12. fine. the religion being of God no fear of man shall keep them back, that therefore (m) The Puritans words alleged in the Bishops of London Survey of the holy pretended discipline pa. 44● circa med. the ministry of the word and sacraments are in absolute degree of necessity to salvation. that, (n) Mr. Willet in his sinopsis pag. 71. fine. it is no longer a true Church than it hath these marks: and that (o) Mr. Willet ubi supra pag 69. fine. the only absence of them doth make a nulletie of the Church that also (p) Hiperius in method. theolog. sive loc common. l. 3. pag. 548. ante med. & 552. prope finem these signs (must be) external and visible that men may know where the true Church is and to which company they ought to adhere that lastly (q) Mr. Whitgiftes defence etc. pag. 465. post med. the Church of Christ is dispersed through the whole world, & cannot now be shut up in one Kingdom. All which hath been (r) See before tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 1. heretofore more specially and at large declared out of our adversaries own writings we do here as now insist, and as our adversaries (s) The Divines of Heidelberg in prefat. in Protocollum Frankentalēse, say to the Anabaptistes. Sivos Ecclesia Dei sitis, sequetur Deum sine sine populo & Ecclesia fuisse etc. nam si vel omnes historias perlegatis, nullum ab exordio mundi populum invenietis, qui confessionem fidei vestrae similem habuerit: quia verò neque deus a principio fine populo & Ecclesia, neque sempiternus ille Rex jesus Christus sine regno fuit, vestra autem Congregatio primum Anno. 1522. caepit, sequitur vos veram Dei Ecclesiam atque populum esse non posse. So plainly do our adversaries urge the Anabaptistes to prove the continuance of their Church. And Beza in epist. theologic. ep. 16. and (after the Geneva Print of Anno. 1573.) pag. 127. paulo ante med. urgeth upon the same ground saying. Si verum est eorum dogma etc. ubi tandem fuerit unquam Ecclesia ipsos ostendere iub camus, quum a pro pagato evangelio facile fit demonstrare, nullum unquam eiusmodi quicquam sensisse, quin perpetuò Ecclesiae consensu fuerit damnatus. did upon this ground charge and provoke the Anabaptistes, so we in like manner charge them, demanding what pastors & Doctors of their Church did accordingly impugn false doctrine, preach the word, and administer their sacraments, and in what several nations were the same visible and external, but during even those foresaid xx. years next before Luther; where might any man as then have performed Christ's commandment of (t) Math. 18, 17. tell the Church: which Mr. Carthwright confesseth to be (v) Mr. Carthwrite in Mr. whitgift's defence. pag. 635. fine. necessary and perpetual. or whereas then might a man have found so much as any one of those (2) Fox in Apocall. c. 12. page 349. post med. saith. Scio ac fateor non adeo omnes terrae angulos sua seductione imposterem Demonem corripuisse, quin Ecclesia semper habeat aliquot milia. (etc. quae nunquam incuruaverunt genua ad Baal:) & vide Whitaker de Ecclesia contra Bellarminum. page 161. fine & contra Dureum l. 3. pag. 259. fine. thousands: or of that (3) Bullenger in Apocall. serm. 62. initio. & fol. 200. a. fine. & b. initio saith. By the description of the Romish tyranny and reign of Antichrist it should seem that the Church and preaching of the gospel had been utterly l●st etc. He declareth therefore by a most excellent vision, how Christ shall notwithstanding etc. have his Church cottinually and that right famous. Church (not obscure, but) right famous: which (as Mr. Fox, Mr. Whittaker, & Bullenger do collect from the scriptures) were evermore to continued even during the greatest persecution and seducing by Antichrist: Luther himself immediately before his first preaching against the Pope, was not a professed member of any Church of Protestants then known to be in being, but was a known Catholic, even (x) Simon de Voyon in his discourse upon the Catallog. etc. pag. 180. an Augustine Friar: and as himself protesteth (y) Luther saith hereof, Casu non voluntate in illas turbas incidi, Deum ipsum testor. Witness hereof his own scholars Timotheus Kirchmeru● in his thesaurus etc. in epist. nuncupatoria versus finem. and jacebus Andreas in confut. disput. joan. jacob. Grinaei. etc. pag. 312. He fell into the troubles or (as he termeth it) (*) Luther in loc. commun. Clasi. 4. pag. 58. paulo ante med. saith. Initio evangelii, cum Deus in hanc (ut sic votem,) factionem, preter meam voluntatem per mirabiles occasiones me involueret. faction of controversies concerning religion but casually and against his will not knowing of any other then (z) Luther in loc. commun. Class. 4. c. 30. pag. 51. fine saith. Tantan causam in me unum recipiobam, & mihi unisustinendam auxilio divino iudicabam. And see further hereof hereafter tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 11. e. f. g. h. to join with him therein, and not so much as (1) Act. mon. pag. 404. 2. initio. and Simon de Voyon in his discourse upon the Catalogue. etc. pa. 182 dreaming or suspecting any change that might happen: for as Sleidan (Luther's own scholar) reporteth the story (2) Sleidan in English l. 13. fol. 177. a. prope linens. the cause and original of this business was by occasion of john Tecel a dominic Friar, who carried about pardons to sell (3) Sleidan. l. 16. fol. 232. b. fine. Against which Luther began to preach. (not upon iudgme●t, but) as him self confesseth when he knew not what the matter meant: (4) Luther's words in Sleidan. l. 13. fol. 177. b. paulo post med. for (saith he) I scarcely understood then what the name of indulgences meant: In so much as afterwards Luther did much dislike of his own undertaken course in that behalf, often times (saith he) (5) Luther in colloqu. mental. fol. 158. b. wishing that I had never begun that business. And Mr. Fox doth accordingly testify how that after the said business so begun (6) act. mon. pag. 404. b. initio. Luther was determined not to stir up any new debates, but rather coveted a common quiet: whereunto he seemed so inclining as he doubted not to insinnate with the Pope making even his (¶) Sleidan. l. 1. fol. 10. a. prope initium. appeal to him, and (7) Sleidan. l. 1. fol. 10. a. fur. professing (saith Sleidan) his affection to the Church of Rome and that he will attempt nothing against it: acknowledging also (8) Luther in Sleidan. ubi supra. the power thereof to be so great, that Christ only excepted there is nothing in this world more excellent: In which course he was so forward, that (saith Mr Fox) (9) Act. mon. pag. 404. a. fine. And Osiander in epitome. etc. centur. 16. pag. 61. fine. & 62. initio saith accordingly: quoth Lutherus in Pontificem quaedam durius scripserit aut dixerit, id condonari sibi petit, promittens posthac maiorem modestiam, indulgentiarumque posthac nullam se facturum mentionem, modo adversarijs etiam suis silentium imponatur. And see further there page 68 paulo post itutium. where he offered like condition to the Pope. it is apparent that Luther promised Cardinal Caietane to keep silence (with this annexed condition of pride) provided also that his adversaries would do the like: And Mr. Cowper late bishop of Winchester, reporteth further, that (10) Mr. Cowper in his Chronicle. fol. 278. a. paulo post initium. Luther by his letter submitted himself to the Pope (with this other like condition so that he might not be compelled to recant: so plainly was pride, even his (*) Concerning Luther's confessed Pride many Protestant writers give testimony. So Conradus Regius. libro Germanico contra joannem Hossum de caena Domini. saith. Deus propter peocatum superbiae qua seize Lutherus extulit (quemadmodum pleraque ipsius scripta testificantur) verum illi spiritum abstulit. And Zuinglius in responsione ad confessinem Lutheri, chargeth Luther with magna Arrogantia, & cum Arroganti verborum fastu, minis quoque plus quam turgidis. And Oecolampadius in responsione ad confessionem Lutheri: saith that Luther was, Arrogantiae & superbiae affectu inflatus. Also the Tigurine Divines in their answer to Luther's book against Zuinglius: say. Prophetae & Apostoli, Dei gloriae, non privato honori, non suae pertinaciae & superbiae studebant, Lutherus autem sua quaerit, pertinax est, insolentia nimia effertur etc. And Simon Lithus in resposione Altera ad Alteram jacobi Gretzeri apologiam pag. 333. paulo ante med. saith. Lutherus plus quam debebat, tribuit gloriolae partae, cuius particulam communicari cum alijs indignissimè ferebat. And Thomas Naogeorgus (a learned Caluinist) alleged by Schlusselburg. in theolog. Calumistarun. l. 2. fol. 131. a. post med. saith of Luther. Plurima scripsit per iram, carnalem, & per emulationem, ne succumbere cerneretur ulli: doctorum veterum orbitam reliquit, indulgens stomacho suo ac honori. And john calvin alleged ibidem fol. 126. a. post med. saith. Lutherus ut pollet eximijs virturibus, ita magnis vitijs laborat: Hanc in●emperiem qua ubique ebullit, utinam magis frenare studuisset etc. utinam recognescendis vitijs plus operae dedisset. etc. And Conradus Gesnerus in universali Bibliotheca saith. Illud non est dissimulandum Lutherum virum esse vehementis ingenij, impatientem, & qui nisi per omnia sibi consentientes ferre nesc●●t. etc. Dominus faxit, ne quid contentione & impudentia oris obsit Ecclesiae, cuius olim crepundia tam faeliciter promovit: In so much as Luther himself (in Lutheri loc. common. class. 4. fol. 35. b.) acknowledgeth the world's opinion herein had of him. saying there. Video ab omnibus in me peti modestiam. and again there he further saith. Omnes fere, in me damnant mordacitatem etc. confessed intolerable pride, the only true cause of his further revolt and apostasy. And it is accordingly yet further testified by Sleidan how that (11) Sleidan. l. 1. fol. 10 paulo post initium. for so much as Luther offered (as before) most reasonable conditions, he thought to have found some favour in the humanity of the bishop of Rome: and (12) Sleidan l. 13. fol. 177. b. fine. that the bishop would assoil him (13) Luther apud Sleidan. ibidem. But lo: (saith Luther.) whilst I look for a joyful sentence from Rome, I am stricken with the thunder boult (of excomuincation, (& condemned for the most wicked man alive: (14) Sleidan l. 13. fol. 178. a. initio. then (saith he.) I began to defend my doings setting forth many books etc. and seeing it is so, let them impute the fault to themselves, that have so excessively hanled the matter: In this sort (as Sleidan testifieth) Martin Luther, his foresaid (15) Sleidan l. 1. fol. 10 a. paulo post initium. appellation to the Pope being condemned, his offers despised, looking for no more help nor health at the Pope's hands, was through extreme necessity brought to appeal from the bishop of Rome: and so upon occasion of these his foresaid proceedings (which whether they were from heaven or not, we will with out all further inference refer to your majesties gravest judgement) he fell into the open ●nd over violent current of his further ensuing Apostasy: notwithstanding which, he did yet still for a space afterwards, continue his accustomed saying of Mass, until that among (a) Manlius Luther's scholar testifieth this in loc commun. pag. 42. fine. And see also the Alphabetical table of that book where it is set down Luthero sapius spectra apparuerunt. several apparitions happened to him: (nor of (¶) Luther in (Lutheri loc. common. class. 4. page 39 prope fine saith. nullas apparitiones Angelorum habeo. And ibid. pag. 40 ante med. he further saith: Pactum feci cum Domino Deo meo, ne vel visiones vel somnia, vel etiam Angelos mihi mittat. & vide ibid. post med. Ang ll for therein he disclaimeth but of wicked sp●rits wherewith he was infested or haunted) whereof one was so terrible that (b) Manlius in loc: commun. pag. 42. fine. & 43 initio. He was almost cast into a sound: in prevention whereof, oil was distilled into his ear, and his feet rubbed with hot clothes. It chanced that (c) Luther tom. 7 Witteberg. Anno. 1588. in libro de Missa privata, & Vnctione Sacerdotum fol 443. & tom. 6. Germ. Genensi. fol. 28. in libro de Missa angulari. Also Luther's words hereof are acknowledged and set down in the Treatise against the defence of the censure. pag. 234. 235. 236. upon a certain time (as himself reporteth the matter) he was suddenly awaked about midnight: then (saith he) Satan began this disputation with me saying hearken right learned D. Luther thou hast said private Mass by the space of 15. years etc. and so the Devil with arguments which Luther himself there setteth down, (whereat Protestant's are greatly ashamed and strive though in vain (d) Mr. Charke and others to avoid that their doctrine against the Mass should thus proceed or begin from the Devil, answer, that by this disputation which Luther as thus reporteth to have been between the Devil and him, was only meant a spiritual temptation of mind, and not any sensible conference had with the Devil. But the contrary is to manifest. 1 First by Satan's foresaid preface to him calling him according to the humour of his Pride, right learned Doctor Luther. 2 Secondly in that he saith thereof in the same place, planè persuasus sum Empserum & Oecolampadium etc. his ictibus horribilibus subitò extinctos fuisse: which argueth more than a spiritual temptation 3 Thirdly by Luther's there describing the sound of Satan's voice: whereof he there saith. Hic certe sudor mihi erupit, habet Diabolus gravem, & fortem vocem, atque ego tum bene expertus sum, quomodo mane homines in lecto mortui inveniuntur. Which last words are purposely omitted by the Lutherans in their latter edition of Witeberg. but are yet still extant in the more ancient edition of Luther's works. tom. 6. Gen. Germ. fol. 28. b. 4 Fourthly by report of like other terrible apparitions happened to Luther testified as here by Manlius a Lutheran. 5 Fivethly by Luther's own report else where of the Devil of ten walking with him in his bed Chamber affirmed by Luther in colloquijs mensalibus Germanice editis. fol. 275. 6 Sixthly by our adversaries the Tigurine Divines, who therefore object against Luther his disputation had with the Devil. Tigurini in confession Germanica impress. Tigurini. 1544. vide fol. 25. 26. & 127. 7 Lastly this evasion of a spiritual temptation to be hereby only meant is so weak, that Mr. Sutliffe l. de vera Catholic● Christi Ecclesia. page 298. 299. saith, that Luther hereby setteth down but only his dream, but that also is most clearly against Luther's words, which are that he was first, suddenly awaked, and then after Sat●n begun disputation with him. to avoid the same. And it is this kind of persuasion or apparition reported by Protestants themselves as happening likewise to Suinglius, (1) It appeareth by Zuinglius his words set down by him in libro de subsid. Euchar. and also in the treatise against the defence of the censure. page 249. & 230. that Zuinglius having laboured the abolishing of the Mass at Zurich against a certain Scribe that had opposed himself (in argument) against Zuinglius: Zuinglius was in that disputation provoked to bring forth examples which were joined With no parable: therefore we began (saith he) to think of all that we could, but yet n● other example came to mind. etc. But when the 13. day of April drew near (I tell the truth) and etc. my Conscience compelleth me to utter what the Lord bestowed upon me: (my thought as I was a sleep) that I was again disputing with the Scribe, and my mouth so stopped that I was not able to speak etc. and suddenly there seemed an admonisher to be present with me. after fuerit an albus nihil memini whether he w●re black or white I remember not etc. which said, why dost thou not answer him, that which is written Exodus. 12. (for it is the Paschall which is the Passeover of the Lord etc. whereupon (saith he) I (afterwards) considered the place, and thereof before the whole Congregation preached, which sermon when it was heard, drove away all mist. Thus were Zuinglius his foresaid proceed against the Mass furthered with nightly instruction in his dream, by an admonisher whether black or white he remembreth not: whereof though he made serious and great account affirming it to be no light matter which (saith he) I learned by this dream, thanks be to God etc. Yet is the same derided as a mere illusion by his other brethren, as namely by jacobus Andreas in confut. disput. joan. jacobi Grinaei pag. 120. 254. fine. & 304. and by Schlusteli urg. (in theolog Caluinistarum l. 1. in Proem. fol. 3. a. b.) and by Gerhardus Gresekenius de veritate Corporis Christi in S. Caena. pag. 64.) By Benedict Morgenstern. in tract. de Ecclesia pag. 68 and by jacobus Heilbrunerus in Schwenck●●ldio Caluinismo etc. in prefat. ant med. Carolastad●us, (2) In the book entitled Conspiracy for pretended reformation page 83. initio. It is said, among others, Carolasta●ius a Preacher professing the Gospel. etc. attributed much to Cabinet teacher's in private conventicles, and unto v●sions, and pretended conferences with God. Oecolampadius (3) Luther alleged ubi supra. saith, concerning these apparitions: Plane persuasus sum, Empser●m & Oecolampadium etc. his ●ctibus horribilibus subito extinctos fuisse: so plainly was he persuaded that Oecolampadius was in one of these apparitions slain by the Devil. and Mr. Foxe (4) In like manner doth Mr. Fox in Apocalipsin. pag. 364. fine & 365. initio. and in his acts & monuments Printed 1596. pag. 90. b. circa med. See also heretofore pag. 80. in the margin at the letter y. report the very like pretended wonderful revelation happened to him (as did to Zuinglius) whereby he was instructed that by the 24. months mentioned in the apocalypse was understood the 294. years of the primitive Churches first persecution, and yet is this understanding of them sithence rejected, & in steed thereof is thereby understood the last 1260. years before Luther by Mr. Napeir upon the revelations. Proposition 15 pa. 22. 23. 24. By Mr. Brocard upon the reviation fol. 110. a. and by Master Gifford upon the revelat. pag. 890. post med. was the first that dissuaded Luther from further saying of Mass. If now then that Luther himself was at first a Catholic, and our adversaries in steed of plain instance or example to be given of their Churches impugning of errors, of her Pastor's Doctors, administration of the word and sacraments during but the foresaid 20. years next before Luther: do answer us that they were as then persecuted? we reply to them from themselves, aswell that no persecution of man can frustrate the foresaid ordinance of god made to his Church in this behalf, as also that persecution (¶) See heretofore tracked 2. c. 2 sect. 8. at o. p. maketh her most known and therefore we ask as before, who these were that were as then so persecuted? if they say that for fear of persecution they durst not profess their faith, and so escaped unknown, we again tell them from themselves, that (⁋) See heretofore tracked 2. c. 2. sect. 11. 1. l. p. q. r therefore they were not as then the true Church. And we urge yet further that the fear of persecution could be no such let to them, after that sundry common wealths and Magistrates had undertaken the public profession, & defence of Luther's doctrine, but that as then at the least if any such had been in being, they might safely have showed themselves and joined in communion with Luther: If lastly they say that their Pastors, and Doctors, administration of the word and sacraments were as then visible and known, and that now since, all testimony thereof is suppressed to omit what hath been (*) See heretofore tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 9 already sufficiently said against this, and to admit also that all our Catholic writers should so strangely have passed them only over in silence, remembering all others as the Annabaptistes' Swenefeldians etc. why yet should Luther, Zuinglius, and the other Protestant writers forbear to mention them? the cause we take to be evident, and only, for that during the foresaid 20. years before Luther, they were not known to be so much as but in being, in any one nation of the world, which thing is in our opinion not obscurely granted, rather than signified by our learned adversaries themselves. To this end our learned adversaries, joannes Regius acknowledgeth that the Church was even then (¶) joannes Regius being urged in this kind. doth (in his liber apologeticus etc. pag. 176. circa & post med.) answer thereto saying. Negas Lutherum suae fidei caetum invenisse etc. dico fuisse ante Lutherum verae religionis & qui cum Luthero per omni● consentiret caetum ecclesi●sticum. But coming to answer where this Congregation w●s to be then found, he hath no other refuge but saith there, that it was, a ●ontificijs non agnitus, nec propter tyrannidem pontificiam visibiliter fortassis ostendi non potuerit: iucoque quando urgent Iesuitae, ut Lutherus verae religionis asse clam Ecclesiam ostendat. etc. volunt ut Lutherus oppositum in adiecto demonstret, & invisibile, visibile probet etc. interim tamen absurdum est ita argumentari, haec res ab alijs non agnoscitur, nec potest etiam videri aut demonstrari, ideoque non est in rerum n●tura etc. So plainly doth he (being urged to particulars) acknowledge his pretended Congregation at Luther's coming to have been then invisible, and not able to be showed inuisibl● and could not be showed: and Mr. jewel affirmeth accordingly, that (e) Mr. jewel in his Aplogie of the Church of England part. 4. c. 4. division 2. and in his defence of the Apology printed Anno 1571. pag. 426 prope finem. the truth was unknown at that time & unheard of, when Martin Luther and Hulderi●h Zuinglius first came unto the knowledge and preaching of the Gospel: Mr. Parkines s●ith in like manner, (*) Mr. Parkins in his exposition upon the Creed. pag. 400. And Caluin in his book of Epistles. printed Hannoviae 1597. ep. 141. pag. 273. paulo post med. saith accordingly. Ad●urdum est, postquam discessionem a toto mundo facere coacti sumus, inter ipsa principia alios ab alijs dissilire. And Daniel Chamierus in his epist. jesuitic. part. altera. printed Genevae. 1601. pag. 49. saith hereof. Arianorun venenum non portiunculam quandam fed pené totum orbem contaminaverat etc. In ea nos tempora devinimus quae etiam excedent Ariani furoris co●fusionem: non portiunculam unam aut alteram error occupavit, sed totum ●orpus Apostasia avertit a Christo. we say that before the days of Luther, for the space of many hundredth years an universal apostasy overspread the whole face of the earth and that our Church was not then visible to the world: in so much as Bucer doth therefore call Luther, (f) Primum Aposiolum purioris evangelii. Bucer in epist. Anno. 36. ad Episcopum Hereford. & vide Conradum Schlusselburg. in theolog. Caluinistarum l. 2 fol. 17. a. initio. the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine. whose vocation (said our adversaries) was by reason of the then general defection of a●l protestant Pastors) (*) See before tract. 2. c. 2. sect 10. fine at q. r. immediate and extraordinary the course of (¶) Bez● ep. 5. Al●m●nno. paulo post initium. Ordinary vocation being then nowhere extant. And the Lutherans do affirm it (g) Conrade. Schlustelburg. ibid. l. 2. fol. 130. b. versus finem. impudency to say, that many learned m●n in Germany before Luther did h●uld the Doctrine of the Gospel. And an other of them further saith: Si antecessores Lutherus in officio habuisset orthodoxos etc. (h) Georgius Milius in Augustan. confess. explicat. art. 7. de Ecclesia pag. 137. If there had been right believers that went b●fore Lu●her in his office etc. there had then been no need of a Lutheraine reformation, (i) Georgius Miluis ibid. pag. 138. therefore (saith he) we say that Luther was raised up (divinitus & extra ordinem) by God's special appointment, and extraordinarily. And an other Lutheran writer affirmeth, it (k) Benedict. Morgenstern. tract. de Ecclesia pag. 145. ridiculous (to think) that in the time b●fore Lu●h●r any had the purity of Doctrine, and that Luther should receive it from them, and not they from Luther, considering (saith he) it is manifest to the whole Christian world, that before Luther's time, all Churches were overwhelmed with more than Cymeriane darkness. And that Luther was divinely raised up to discover the same, and to restore the light of true Doctrine. So plainly do our adversaries themselves, in steed of instance or example to be given, acknowledge (to the contrary) the utter defection and want of their Church's Pastors and Doctors, of administration of the Word and Sacraments for and during the age next before Luther: whereunto we further add, that the Protestants Doctrine of justification by only faith, (which themselves affirm to be (l) Mr. Charke in the Tower disputation the fourth days conference Arg. 1. d●nii the So●l● of the Church, (m) Mr. Fox act. mon. pag. 402. a. circa medium the only principal ●●gine of salvation. and (n) The Confession of Bohemia in the Harmony of Confessions pag. 253. ante medium. of all ●h●r p●ints of Doctrine the chiefest and weightiest,) was so unknown in the age before Luther, that the contrary Doctrine of justification by Merit and Works (which Protestants term (o) Mr. Penrie in the book entitled Mr. Some laid open in his colours page 29, 30. the very heart life and soul of Popery) was defended not only by the (p) See this heretofore for the Waldenses, at pag. 90. i. l. and for Wicliffe at pag. 97. f. & for hus at pag. 101. g. Waldenses, Wycl●ffe, and hus, but also by all other nearer Luther's time in so much that Mr. Fox having spoken of the t●mes next before Lut●er, and of the learned writers then living, concludeth only of Luther, that (q) Act. mon. pag. 402 a. circa med. and the Divines of the Confession of Augusta alleged by Luc. Osiander in epitome. hist. ecclesiast. centur. 16. pag. 157. paulo ante med. confess the same likewise saying. Cum igitur doctrina de fide quam oportet in Ecclesia praecipuam esse, tam di● tacuerit ignota, quemadmodum fateri omnes necesse est etc. he gave the str●ak● and pluck down the foundation (of our Catholic faith, and all by opening one vain l●ng hid before which is our free justification by our faith only in Christ. so plainly also by Mr. Fox his confession, was this chief article of the Protestants faith, unknown and unheard of during the age next before Luther. And thus much briefly to show that whereas it is evident and confessed from the Scriptures, that the true Church's pastors, her administration of the Word and Sacraments must evermore continue yet our adversaries Church, religion, administration of of the Word and Sacraments, are not known so much as but to have been in being, during the xx. years next before Luther. Whereupon we are to resist and say to them as did the ancient (*) Tertulian in libro de prescript: saith. Qui est is vos? unde est quando venistis? ubi tam diu latuistis? and Augustine l. 3. de Baptismo contr. Don. c. 2. saith unde ergo donatus apparuit? de qua terra germinavit? ex quo mari emersit, de quo coelo cecidit? And Aug. de Vtilit. Cred. c. 14. saith to the Manichees vos autem & tam pauci, & tam turbulenti, & tam novi, nemini dubium est, quoniam nihil dignum auctoritate proferetis: & Optatus, l. 2. contra Parmenianum saith Vestrae Cathedrae originem ostendite, qui vobis vultis sanctam Ecclesiam vendicare: and Hilary, l. 6. de Trinitate ante med saith, tardè mihi hos Pijssimos doctores aetas nunc huius seculi protulit, etc. and Hierom, contra Luciferianos in fine saith: ex hoc ipso quod posterius instituti sunt, eos se esse indicant quos futuros apostolus praenunciavit. Fathers in like manner to the Heretics of their times: and as did (¶) Luther. (in Lutheri Loc. common. class. 5 c. 15. pag. 50. ante med. saith of the Sacramentaries, Sine nobis & ante nos nihil erant, ne hiscere quidem audebant, nunc nostra victoria inflati, in nos vertunt impetum. Luther himself upon this like ground to our adversaries the Sacramentaries. A FURTHER DEMONSTRATION Otherwise of the Protestant Church's defection. SECT. 12. BUT forbearing as now, further to prosecute the foresaid evident defection of the Protestants Church her administration of the Word and Sacraments, by reason of the heretofore alleged disparetie (or rather contrariety) in doctrine between our now Protestants, and the foresaid examples of Waldo, Wicliffe, Husse, Luther etc. & all those other, whom our adversaries have (as hath been (2) See heretofore for Waldo. tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 3 for Wicliffe sect. 4. for hus sect. 5. for. Luther sect. 10. and for others, see sect. 7. heretofore particularly proved) injustly pretended to be of their Church: we will as yet in further proof otherwise of their Churches no less unanswerable defection, but briefly put your MAJESTY in mind, of one only other point, (worthy of a much more laboured discourse) the which being hereby but signified, rather than at large entreated of, we do nevertheless (●n full confidence of the manifest and unanswerable clearness thereof) presume humbly to offer unto your HIGHNESS more retired and serious consideration. We have heretofore showed how that supposing Waldo had been a Protestant yet was he before his first preaching against the Pope, originally a known and professed member of our Catholic Church: and the like we have discovered in Berengarius, Peter Bruis, Wycliffe, Husse, Luther etc. all whose followers, as namely the Berengarians, Waldenses, Wy●leuistes, Hussi●s, Lutherans. & ●. are in their forenamed seve all Sectmasters from whom they are known to have descended, most plainly reduced to a known Catholic beginng. As were in like manner the Adrians, Donatist s, N●st●rians. &. known to have had their like first beginning in Catholics, as in A●ius, D●natus, N●●torius. &. who all together with Berengarius, Waldo, Why life, hus, Luther. etc. were professed members of our Catholic Church, before such time as they (3) 1. joh. 2, 19 went forth from us the peculiar mark or stigma. wherewith the (4) 1. joh. ●, 19 It is said of heretics: they went out from us. And Act. 15, 24. it is likewise said of them. Certain that went forth from us: And Act. 20, 30. Out of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things in so mu●h as our Saviour forwarneth us against this departure or going out saying: If therefore they shall say unto you, behold he is in the desert, go you not forth: Mat. 24, 26. See S. Austen upon these words heretofore, tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 1. in the margin at the figure 2. Scriptures, (5) Optatus, lib. 1. saith hereupon against the Donatists videndum est quis in radice cum toto orb manserit, quis foras exterit, quis cathedram sederit alteram quae ante non fuerat etc. And S. Augustine, tom. 8. in Psalm. 106. saith quid est ergo seduxit eos? dimisit eos in inu●o & non in via, quomodo enim in via, homines qui partem tenent totum relinqunt? quomodo in via? quae est ergo via? Aut ubi agnoscitur via? Deus (inquit) misereatur nostri (& ●) ut agn●scamus in terra utam tuam: in qua terra? in omnibus gentibus salutare tuum: utique t●les ut min●antur, ut pauci fi●nt, hinc exeunt: A multitudine unitatis omnes exierunt, si●ut P●ulo ante commemoravi dictum de illis, ex nobis exierunt (etc.) And Aug. tr●. 3. in ep. Io● saith omnes Haeretici, omnes Schismat. ex nobis exierunt, id est ex ecls. exeunt. Fathers, and (6) See M. Al●s●n in h●s confutation of Brow●●s●●e: pag. 1. initio. Protestants do (not without evident reason) note the sectemasters of their times. For seeing that truth is ancient to heresy, (the which is but a denial of some part of the truth then in being and professed) and that the sum of our Christian religion was accordingly at first established and continued in and by the Apostles (7) See M. B●●sons words alleged heretofore, tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 6. at z. a. and their Successors; There never (*) This is evidently seen in the examples of Arius, Novatus, Donatus, etc. And all other Arch heretics or sect-masters of every age, neither can our adversaries give any one example to the contrary. was therefore, nor possibly could be, any Arch Heretic or sectmaister, who d●d not by his the secondary Innovation in denial of some truth divide himself from the Catholic Churches the visible society: whereupon as it followeth (by necessary sequel) that it sufficeth not our adversaries to affirm with such needy begging of the thing in question, & no less peremptory & assuming judgement (under pretence of that forbidden (¶) 2. Peter. 1. private interpretation wh●ch (8) Hereof see heretofore, tract. 2. cap. 1. initio. in the margin at the letter p. q. themselves do frame upon the Scriptures that we have departed fr●m God, unless withal they can show from what other known company of Christian to us then elder & in being we did divide ourselves, betaking v● so thereby into an other singular society, as did in their several times W●l●●, Wi●li●e, Husse, Luther, Calvin etc. in their departing from our Catholic church, the like whereof to have happened by any such departure made by our Church f am any other known ●ompay of Christ ans to it then ancient and in being in any age or nation since the Apostles times, our learned adversaries are (⁋) Whereas the proof hereof lieth on our adversaries part, their most material objections in this behalf are examined & answered heretofore. tract. 1. sect. 7. & the contrary by us proved. tract. 1. sect. 8. not able to show, a thing (in regard of the reason before alleged) worthy of all special & due observation. So likewise, (which is no less worthy also to be observed) although it be manifest & grounded that the true Church must undoubtedly evermore (9) Hereof see hereafter tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 13. initio in the margin at the letter r. continue with (10) Hereof see heretofore. tract. 2. ca 2. sect. 1. lit. t●●. x. y. Z. b. c. administration of the Word and Sacrament. Yet to avoid the example of the Primitive Church, being as made by our adversaries unworthily questionable, & by us heretofore even from themselves sufficiently (11) Concerning testimonies of our n●w Catholic doctrine to have been taught in the Primitive Church. see heretofore. tract. 1. sect. 2. & 3. & tra. 2. c. 1. sect. 3. cleared, and withal to restra●ne them to an other no less large, certain, & known time) they are not able to name from Anno Dom. 700. for other 700. years then next after following, (a time long & large enough) so much as but any one (*) The Waldenses, Wicle●●stes, H●ssites, & Lutherans. admitting they were all Protestants (the contrary whereof is heretofore proved) are yet in their forenamed several sect-masters, (as are also the Calvinistes in Calvine) reduced to a Catholic beginning: And as for other examples our adversaries canno● give instance, so much as of any one other man, whom they can pretend to have been originally a Protestant and not a Catholic: And if they flee to the examples of such other, as themselves cannot but acknowledge for confessed heretics, it is ridiculously impertinent, and showeth their full conviction herein. other person living during any part of all that time, in any one nation of the earth, whom they can but with any colour pretend, to have been at first no Catholic but originally a Protestant: As we have before said, Waldo, Wiclive, hus. Luther, Caluin etc. (from whom have sprung, the Waldenses, Wiclevistes, Hussites, Lutherans, calvinists, etc.) were each of them originally Catholics, as likewise were for former times Arius, Novatus, Pelagius, Nestorius etc. Let now our adversaries peruse (though most carefully) the several writings of their own most painful writers in this behalf, as namely M. Fox his Acts & monuments, Il iricus his Catalogus testium veritatis, Simon devoyon, his Discourse upon the Catalogue of the Doctors of God's Church, & also the century writers of Magdeburge, and they shall not in all or any of them, or in any other find instance or example of any one other man named to the contrary of that which we now urge, if then our learned adversaries be not able to give us neither instance of any departure made by our Church from any other known company of Christians to it then ancient and in being, yet neither also example (as it is before required during the time before limited so much as but of any one man living in any part of the world, who was at first no Catholic but originally a Protestant: If these things be plain evident & not to be excepted against by our learned adversaries, what then can be more clear to prove a manifest interruption and discontinuance of their Church's Pastors, adminstration of the Word & Sacraments, & that as our Religion is undoudtedly that (12) Math. 13, 24. Good seed which Christ the good husband- man first Sowed in his field. So also their adverse doctrines are those forewarned (13) Math. 13, 25. tars which the enemy (afterwards came and s●wed among the Wheat & went his way: And thus much concerning the Protestants apparent defection of their Church's Pastors, administration of the Word and Sacraments. THAT THEREFORE PROTESTANTS for preservation of Christ's Church in being do acknowledge th● Catholick● Church to have been the tru● Church and the Religion thereof for sufficient to Salvation. SECT. 13. WHICH sai●le defection or want of their Church's Pastors administration of the Word and Sacraments, carrieth with it such an evident scandal or rather scroople, by reason of the confessed doctrine to the contrary of all men concerning the true Church (which according to (r) M. Whitaker against M. Raynoldes: in his answer to the preface pag. 33. saith We believe to the comfort of our souls, that Christ's Church hath continued and never shall fail, so long as the world endureth: & we account it a profane heresy to teach otherwise. And the same is yet further affirmed by D. Fulke in the tower disput. with Edm. Camp the 2. days conference. And also by the confessions of Belgia, in the Harmony of confessions p●g. 321. and by the confession of H●luetia, ibidem pag. 306. And by the confession of Saxony, ibidem pag. 324. and 325. & 473. in so much as the Divines of Witenberge in Colloquio Badensi apud Osiandrum in epitome (etc.) centur. 16. pag. 1064. ante med. say Ecclesiam inde ab ascensione, usque ad hac tempora nunquam interruptam sed perpetua su●cessione in terris per mansisse firmiter credimus: And ibidem pag. 1065. p●st med. It is said● Contra omnes furores Satanae. Ecclesia vera in terris usque ad adventum Christi ad extremum judicium est mansura. all opinions must evermore continue, without fa●ling or ceasing to be, not so much as for any one moment of time) that the more sobe● and learned Protestants, whom headstrong and inconsiderate zeal hath not altogether b●inded do therefore in prevention thereof, and for preservation of themselves, make in these straits, our Catholic Church as it were their (s) Numeri 35, 11. City of refuge: acknowledging to that end, that the true Church immediately before Luther's time, had it being in our Catholic Church; & that accordingly, like as Luther himself before his preaching against the Pope, was an (t) S●e●dan. lib. 1. initio. Augustine Fre●r: and (as himself saith) (u) Luther in his Commentary upon the Epistle to the Galathians Englished, fol. 35. b. circa medium. kept chastity poverty and obedience: was only given to fasting, watching, praying, saying of Mass, and such like, and (x) Luther ibidem fol. 35. a. circa medium. honoured the Pope of mere conscience, etc. & was so thereby most undoubtedly, a professed member of our Catholic (or as they te me it popish Church.) So likewise upon his pretended reformation or preaching afterwards against the Pope, he did not (say they) thereby (y) M. D. Covel in his defence of M. Hooker, Art. 11. pag. 73. post med. sayeth As it is strange for any man to deny them of Rome to be of the Church. S. I cannot but wonder, that they (of Rome) will ask where our Church was before Luther, as if any were of opinion, that Luther did erect a new Church, etc. And see the like saying in M Hooker, in his Ecclesiastical policy, lib. 3. pag. 129. post. med. erect a new Church then before not in being, (for that were most directly against themselves) and therefore d● n●t depa●t from the Church he wa● of be●ore, but continued still a member thereof, which thing both in H●●k● and M. D Cou● (speaking thereof do very plainly (z) M. Hooker lib. 3. pag. 130. and M. D. Covel in his defence of M. Hooker pag. 68 say We gladly acknowledge them of Rome to be of the family of jesus Christ, therefore we hope that to reform ourselves is not to sever ourselves f●ō●he Church we were before; n the Chur h we were and are so still, as also we say that they of Rome (notwithstanding their manifo d def ct) are to be held a part of the house of God, a limb of the visible Church of Christ. acknowledge to the great dislike of the ( ) In the Christian lett●r of certain English Protestant's unto that rev●●ēd man M R Hooker pag. 1●. & 19 they do reprove at large M. Hook for this opinion of not severing themselves from the Church they were of b●fore. Purit●ins: As also M. Bunm● prosecuteth the same more at large affirming therefore (b) M B●nny in his treatise tending to Pacification pag. 100L. Paulo post Medium. That of departing f●● in the Church there ought to be ●o question at all amongst us (c) Ibidem pag. 113. post medium. we are saith he no several Church from them nor they f●o● us & therefore there is no departing at all out of the Church f r a●y to departed from them to us, nor from us ●o them, all the difference between us is concerning the truer members, whether we or th●y may b● f●und more w●r●hie of that account, as f r th● other we allow no such question, in so much as he doubteth n●t to say (d) Ibidem p●g. 109. circa medium. It wa● evil done of them who f●rst v●ged ●uch a ●eparati●● confessing further our g eat (e) Ibidem pag. 92 circa medium, he saith of his separation, our adversaries see themselves to h●● advantage if they can win us to acknowledge (it) advantag given thereby, whi●h our advantage he afterwards very pla●nel● to this purpose expresseth to be (f) Ibidem pag. 96. c●rca medium. for that saith he) it is great probability wi●h them, that 〈◊〉 we make ou s l●es a swerable ●or to find out a distinct and several Church from them, which continued from ●he Apo l s ●g● t● this p●e●n●, also that ●ele we must acknowledge that our Church is str●g upon late, or since theirs: And hence it cometh, that M. H●ler and M. D. Covel do (g) M. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical Policy. l. 3. sect. 1. p●g. 130. ante medium & l. 5. pag. 188. initi●. and M. D. Covel in his defence of M. Hooker, pag. 68 acknowledge, the Church of Rome t● be● of the sami●ie o● I●sus Ch●●st, a pa●te f the h●use of God, a Limb of ●h● vi●●bl● Church of Christ: that M. D. Bar● s●ith (h) In his ormer sermons a●d two questions, etc. serm. 3. pag. 448. fine. the learneder writers acknowledge the Church of Rome to be th● Church of God: that M. D S●me saith (i) M. D. Some in his defence against M. Penrie (etc.) cap. 23. fine pag. 182. initio. in the judgement o● all learned men, & all reformed Church s there is in Popery a Church: that another late English Protestant writer saith (*) See the discourse upon the means of w●l governing (etc.) against Nicholas Matchivell Printed at London 1602. pag. 80. post med the Catholic and r form make not two but one same r ligion, (⁋) Ibiden pag. 83 Paulo post med & 85. prope finem. agreeing in all principal points ●f religion necessary for our salvation that also George Cass●l●r (though disliking (k) Cass●der in libro de offic●o Pij viri etc. pag. 14. ante medium & 15. initio. the Pope) and a knowledged for (¶) David Pareus in his book de Symbolis Sacramentatibus etc. in praefat ante medium, saith C ssader ●rditius scriptor. etc. a learned writer saith (l) Cassander ibidem pag. 14. post medium. and in defence of his opinion h●e allegeth Luther ibid. pag. 14. fine & pag. 21 &. 22. the Ch●r●h of Rome is to be reverenced as being the true Church and Temple of God; and that a late d sguised French Protestant writer, affirmeth (m) Examen pacific de la doctrine de H●guenotes, etc. imprimee a Caen. 1590. en argum du liure pag. 2. Ca●h●l● ke● and H g●●●●●s to be of one saith and rol g ●n: with whom agreeth another like ●rite● terming than in like manner (n) Apology Catholic etc. part. 2. pag. 26. & 203 & 204. Dom●sti●kes ●f o●● fa●●h, and braunch●s of one and the same Vine. And hen e last it cometh, that the learned Protestants (as we before (o) Heretofore tract. 1. s●ct. 6. have she●ed do afford to our Catholike professors, the hopeful promises of Salvation, affirming this to be (p) M. D. Some ubi supra pag. 176. prope finem. the judgement of a●l ●●a n●● Pr●●e●tan●. & ●●d (q) M. B●nny in his treatise tending to Pacification pag. 93. circa medium. ●are by the wh●l● course of all ●heir writ● gs: in so ●uch archey doubt not to cha●ge such of their other headstrong brethren as affirm the contrary even with (r) Mr. D. Covell in his defence of M. Hooker, pag. 68 Paulo post medium. Ignorant zeal. A brief repetition of ●he premises of this second Chapter. SECT 14. SINCE therefore (most gracious Souer●igne) it appeareth by the second chapter of this second tra●t grounded upon the Scriptures, and that confessed sense thereof which our adversaries themselves acknowledge 1 First that the Church's Pastors and Do●to●s, t●eir impugning of errors, administration of the Word and Sacrament● must evermore (1) See heretofore tra. 2. c. 2. sect 1. b. c. d. & ibid. n o. u. & ibidem, x. y. z. continue in being 2 Secondly that where these are wanting there the true Church is (2) See heretofore tra. 2. cap. 2. sect. 1 y. z. not. 3 Thirdly that the examples of (3) See heretofore tra. 2. c●p. ●. sect. 7. Bertram, the (4) See heretofore tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 3. Wal●e s s, 5 See heretofore tract. 2. cap. 2. Sect. 4. Wi●liffe, (6) See heretofore tra. 2. cap. 2. sect. 5. Huss, ●nd (*) See heretofore tra. 2. cap. 2. sect. 10. and 11. Luther, upon which our adversary's do most insist and all other (7) See heretofore tra. 2. cap. 2. Sect 7. examples of former times are altogether impertinent to enable (but so much a respecti ely for those times:) a continuance of their Church's administration of the Word & Sacraments: in so much as themselves are urged to confess that the same have continued latent and (8) See heretofore tra. 2 c. 1. sect. 4. p. q. r. s. t. u. x. y. z. invisible to the world (at the least) for these 1000 years last past. 4 Fourthly which po●nt only wo●●d suffice to convince our adversaries) t●at not so much as an one example thereof can be found, b●t during even the last xx (9) See heretofore tra. 2. cap. 2. sect. 11. years before Luther's first preaching against the Pope, which are yet within the memory of t●is present age. 5 Fifthly th●t in regard thereof, our adversary's a e (for preservation of themselves) urged to flee (10) Heretofore tract. 2. c●p. 2. sect. 13 y. & ibidem z. b c. d. e. f. g. h. i. to our Catholic Church whose Pastors administration of the Word & Sacraments, have according to their former confession) continued (11) See heretofore tra. 1. sect. 2. & tract. 2. cap. 1. sect. 4. q. r. s. t y. known and visible ●or 1300. years last ●ast, & so to acknowledge it for a true (12) See heretofore tra. 1. sect. 6. e. f. & ibidem g. h. l. & tract. 2. ca 2. sect. 13 b. c. Church, whereof Lu●her at and after his s●●d fi●st pre c●●ing was and (13) Heretofore tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 13. y. continued (according to their enforced con●ession) a known and professed member. We do most humh ●e now hereupon appeal to your MAJESTY concerning the equity of this our pre●ent Apology, and whether ●h t we have not her by great cause, to stand (a● we do) against our adversaries in defence of our Catholic Church, and when her also that they, are not in all sen●e and reason fo●nde of all others most unreasonable, n thei● seeking further to afflict & persecute the same. THE THIRD TRACT FIRST CHAPTER, SECT. 1. CONCERNING THE CONFESSED Antiquity of Catholic Priesthood Confession Absolution Mass etc. and of the penal laws made against them. ALBEIT most gracious Sovereign that in regard of these so plain and confessed premises already alleged in behalf of our Catholic faith, the same can appear (even to our enemies) no less than worthy of all reverend & due estimation, such yet nevertheless hath been the calamity of our former ti●es, th' t even for this faith, though th●s bewt●full with all this outward o na●et of confessed probability, (which being indeed but as it were th' mother pear●e containeth under it such further special proof fr●m Scriptures Fathers, ●nd Protestant writers s is much more orient ●nd richly demonstrative, the particulars whereof we humbly pray but by this discourse m●de only in general da●e not presume) to offer to your Majesty: we h●ue for many years passed sustained the imposition of sundry penal laws, the Catholic (*) S. Chrysostom writ a special book of this Priesthood. Priest hood of our spiritua l Pastors, who (as St. Austin saith) are now not ●●properlie but (s) Aug. de civ. Dei l. 20. c. 10. post medium saith non utique de solis Episcopis & Presb●teris d●ctum est, qui ●ā proper vocantur in Ecclesia Sacerdotes. properly called priests in th● Church: and to w●om therefore the words Presbyter, and Sa●●rd s are ●nd fferently (2) A●gust●● ut supra & the Greek word Hiereus which signifieth Sacerdos is used and referred to Christian Priests by Dionysius Areopagita de eccles. Hierarch. c. 5. & Epist. 8. ad demophilum monachum: And Ignatius in his undoubted Epistle ad Smyrnenses now extant (whereof divers sentences are verbatim alleged under the name of Ignatius, and title of this Epistle by Hierom. lib. de viris illustribus and by Eusebius lib. 3. cap. 32. as is more at large urged and proved by the L. Archbishop of Canturburie in his defence etc. pag. 408. circa medium: & he not so much as therein gainsaid by Carthwright affirmeth the Bishop to be as the high Priest, & Chr●sts Image in respect that he sacrificeth: affirming further, that in the Church nothing is greater than the Bishop, who sacrificeth to God for the safety of the w●ole world and Nazianz●● in Epist. 8. ad Simplicium Heret. affirmeth the Priest to be the mediator between God and man and sacrificing together with Christ: this point is so evident and common in the Greek and Latin Fathers, that M. Whitaker lib. 9 contra D●●●am, pag. 813 initio, acknowledgeth the same and answereth only that the said Fathers used the words H●●reus and Sacerdos: (non proprie sed catacresticos, not properly) (directly against S. Austin's foresaid testimony) But by abuse of speech: and yet as the L. Archbishop of Canturburie in his said defence etc. pag. 411. versus finem, confesseth and saith this name Priest is usually applied to the Minister of ●he Gospel in all Histories, Fathers and writer of Antiquity. referred in respect of the blessed Sacrament, which is by them offered to God (3) Aug. de civ. Dei lib. 17. cap. 17. circa medium. under Christ the (High) Priest, & (4) Ambros. in 1. Tim. c. 4 vers. 14. in his steed or (5) Cyprian. lib. 2. Epist. 3. post medium. place, as the churches external and acceptable oblation, & acknowledged (t) For these last 1000 years M. Beacon in his works set forth 1560. the 3. part in his treatise entitled the relics of Rome fol. 344. a post. med. saith, the Mass was fully finished by Pope Gregory the first, about Anno Domini 600. etc. And from Charles the Great unto Charles the first, the Mass reigned as a most mighty Queen in all the Churches of the West part of the world. and Melancthon lib. 4. Chronic. in Henric. 4. fol. 186. 187. saith of Gregory. he allowed by public authority the sacrifice of Christ's body and blood not only for the living, but also for the dead: And the like is affirmed of Gregory by Carion. in Chronic. pag. 567. Paulo ante med. Also Musculus Loc. common. de caena dom. pag. 339 fi●e saith of Pelagius Predecessor to Gregory, Pelagius commemorationem mortuorum in secreta canonis mistatic● retulit (etc.) ut mortuis virtus & efficacia Missae communica●etur: Also Simachus was Bishop of Rome (Anno 501) of whom the century writers centur. 6. cap. 10. col. 664. line 30, say, notas Antichristi & hic habuit, missam enim in formam redegit: Before him was S Leo (Anno 440.) of whom M. Bale in his Pageant of Pope's fol. 27. saith, Leo the first allowed the sacrifice of the Mass n●t without great blasphemy to God: Before Leo was Ambrose (Anno 370) whom the century writers cent. 4. cap. 4. col. 295. line 3. reprove and charge with not writing well de transubstantiatione & applicatione pro mortuis: and ibidem line 23. they further s●y, Ambrose locutionibus utitur quibus ante eum ex patribus nemo usus est: ut miss●m facere, offer sacrificium etc. Before him again w●s Gregory N●ssene of the Greek Church: (Anno 340.) of whom Andreas Chrastovius in his book (against Bellarmine) de opificio missae lib. 1. sect. 164. initio & pag. 81. saith An ignorat opinionem Nissem per se absurdam esse (etc.) ait ille (Nissenus) cum itaque dedit (Christus) discipulis suis corpus suum ad comedendum (etc.) ●am latentèr (etc.) in effabilitèr & invisibilitèr corpus immolatum erat (etc.) And see further hereof M. Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 4. pag. 320. fine: Also Cyrrill of Jerusalem another Father of the Greek Church flourished (Anno 320.) whom Hospinianus in historia Sacramentaria pag. 167. initio chargeth and reproveth saying, quod ad Cirrillum Hierosolomitanum attinet, dicit ille quidem pro ●u●iam temporis recepta consu●tudine, sacraficium altaris, maximum iuvamen este animarum: and Ca●vin in libro de vera Ecclesia reformatione saith of the Fathers of this age solemn est nebulonibus istis (meaning us Catholics) quicquid vitiosum in Patribus legitur coriadere (etc.) cum ergo obijciunt locum Malachiae de missae sacrificio ab Ireneo exponi, oblationem Melchisedech sic tractari, ab Athanasio, Ambrosio, Augustino, Arnobio, brevitè. ●●●ponsū sit, eosdem illos scriptores alibi quoque panem interpretari Corpus Christi, sedita ridicu●è, ut distentire nos cogat●atio & veritas (etc.) And in his book of the institutions printed Argentorat. 1539. pag. 350. ante medium. And after the ●ther edition lib. 4. institut. cap. 18. sect. 11. he further saith veteres quoque illos video hanc memoriam alio detorsisse quam institutioni domini conveniebat, quod nescio quam repetitiae aut saltem renovatae in●ol●tionis faciem, ●orum caena prae se f●rebat (etc.) Imitati sunt enim propius judaicum sacrificandi morem quam aut ordinaverat Christus, aut Evangelij ratio ferebat and see heretofore pag. 13. Before these times lived S. Cyprian (Anno 240.) whom the century writers cent. 3. cap. 4. col. 83. line 34. reprove saying, Sacerdorem inquit (Ciprianus) vic● Christi fugi, & Deo Patrisacrificium offerri. And M. Fulke against Heskines, Sanders etc. pag. 100 circa med. saith It is granted that Cyprian thought the bread and wine brought forth by Melchisad●ch to be a figure of the Sacrament, and that herein also Melchisadech resembled the Priesthood of Christ. Also Tertullian lived (Anno 220) him doth Luc Osiander centur. 3. lib. 1. cap. 5. pag. 10. circa med. reprove saying, Tertullianus approbavit oblationes pro defuciis, orationes Annuas pro natalitijs: In like sort is he reproved by the century writers cent. 3. cap. 5. col. 338. line 56. and no less plainly by M Fulke in his confutation of Purgatory pag. 265. circa & post med. Before Tertullian lived Ireneus (Anno 170.) him calvin reporteth as before, and the century writers cent. 2. cap. 4. col. 63. line 20. charge, saying de oblation porro Ireneus l. 4. c. 32. etc.) satis videtur loqu● in co●●n odè, cum ait novi Testamenti novam docuit (Christus) oblationem, quam Ecclesia ab Apostolis accipiens in universo mundo offert Deo. Before him lived Ignatius the Apostles undoubted scholar, (Anno 90) of whom the century writers in cent. 2. cap. 4. col. 62. line 9 say, quaedam ambigua & incomode dicta in quibusdam occurrunt, ut in Epistola Ign●tij ad Smyrnenses, non licet inquit Ignatius sine Episcopo neque offer, neque sacrificium immolare, and cent. 2. c. 10. col. 167. line 17. the century writers affirm these words of Ignatius to be periculosa & qu●si errorum semina: lastly M. Beacon in his foresaid treatise fol. 344. a. post med. saith, the Mass was begotten, conceived & borne anon after the Apostles times, if all be true that historiographers write. And Hospinianus in historia sacramentaria l. 1. c. 6 pag. 20 fine. saith, jam tum primo illo seculo viventibus adhuc Apostolis, magis huic sacr●mento quem baptism insidiari ausus sit (daemon) & homines a prima illa forma sensim abduxerit (etc.) And Sebastianus Francus in Epistola de abrogandis in universum omnibus statutis ecclesiasticis (saith most plainly) statim post Apostolos omnia inversa sunt (etc.) caena dom. in sacrificium transformata est. by learned protestants to have been for such accord ngly offered not only fo● these thousand years last passed, but also for so many other precedent ages, as being (in our opinion) not any new redemption but rather a continual commemoration and application of the force and benefit of that one sacrifice, which (u) Haebr. 9, 28. was offered once for all: is against all example of former times made treason in our Priests: our relieving of them is death to us, the remission or forgiveness of our sins, (which Protestants term reconciliation) defended by ancient (x) Ambros. l. 1. de poenitentia c. 2. saith of the Novatians, sed a●unt se domino deferre reverentiam cui soli remittendorum criminum potestatem reservent. Immo nulli maiorem iniuriam faciunt, quam qui eius volunt mandata rescindere. nam cum ipse in Evangelio suo dixerit dominus, accipite spiritum sanctum quorum remisseritis peccata remittuntur eyes (etc.) quis est ergo qui magis honorat, utrum qui mandatis obtemperat an qui resistit. And cap. 7. he further saith to them, cur Baptizatis si peccata per hominem dimitri non licet: In Baptismo utique remissio peccatorum omnium est, quid interest utium per paenitentiam, an per lavacrum hoc ius sibi datum Sacerdotes vindicentur unum in utroque ministerium est. Also Pacianus in epist. 1. ad S●mp●onianum novatianum saith, numquam Deus non poenitenti comminar●tur nisi ignosc●●e● poenitenti: solus hoc (inquies) Deus poterit, verum est: sed & quod per Sacerdotes suos facit ipsius potestas est, nam quid est illud quod Apostolis dicit: quae ligaveritis in tertis (etc.) In like manner Socrates in hist. tripart. lib. 2 cap. 13. fine. reproveth Acesius the Novatian: for that he taught concerning such as fell in persecution (invitandus quidem ad poenitentian, spem verò remissionis non à sacerdotibus, sed à Deo solummodo sustinere, qui potestatem h●bet peccata remittere: Haec cum dixisset Acesius, imperator ait, o Acesi pone scalam & si potes ascend solus in coelum; so strange and singular in those times was this opinion deemed: & vide hist. tripart. l. 8. c. 9 prope initium. Fathers against the Novatians, & by other Protestant (y) Lobechius Doctor and professor in the University of Rosticke in his disput. theolog. pag. 301 answereth our adversaries common objection saying; est quidem solius De●à peccatis absoluere, sed ita ut (hoc fac●at alias immediate, (etc.) alias mediatè per suos ministros condonando nobis culpam (etc.) errant ergo Calum●●m, qui (etc.) absolutioni ministri verbi, illam efficaciam detrahant, (etc.) contendentes mini●●um absoluere tantum ut internuntium etc. In like plain manner is our adversaries objection of God only forgiving sin: and their denials thereupon of that power to Ecclesiastical Minister's, no less plainly further answered and refelled by sundry Protestants, as namely by Andrea● A●thamerus in conciliat. locorum Scripturae pugnantium etc. loc. 194. fol. 218. a. b. And by jacobus He●lbranerus in Schwenckfeldio calvinism. pa. 55. In so much as Absolution (is affirmed to be) properly a Sacrament, by Melancthon in Apolog. Confessed. August. Art. 13. de numero & usu Sacramentorum fol. 161. b. initio. by Spangeberg in (hu) Margarita Theologica. pag. 116. & 117. by Andraeas' Acthamerus in conciliat. lo●orum Scripturae Pugnan. (etc.) loc. 191. fol. 211. b initio. & loc. 195. fol. 219. b. And by Sarcerius in loc. common. tom. 1. de potest. Ecclesiae fol. 305 b. post med. writers against their brethren our adversary's, which our said Priests (according to their commission most plainly set down in the (3) joh. 20, 21, 22, 23. Scriptures) undertake to impart to us, upon particular confession had of our sins, (which said confession both (a) To omit the plentiful testimonies of the Father's S. Leod●s●ribeth the usage of the Latin Church in epist 91. add Theodorum foro julij Episcopum saying, Christus hanc Ecclesiae praepositis tradidit potestatem, ut & confitentinus actionem poenitentiae darent, & cosdem salubri satisfactione purgatos, ad communionem Sacramentorum per januam reconcil●●tionis admitterent: And epist. 80. ad Episcopos Campaniae. He further saith, cum reatus conscientiarum sufficiat solis Sacerdotibus judicari confessione secreta. And it is said in the ancient tripartite history. lib. 9 cap. 35. Ad hanc causam presbiterum bonae conversationis, seruantemque secretum ac sapientem virum statuerunt, ad quem accedentes hi qui delinquebant delicta propria fat●bantur: At ille secundum uniuscuiusque culpam indicebat & mulctam: quod etiam hactenus diligenter in occidentalibus servatur ecclesijs, & maxim apud Romam, ubi etiam locus est certus poenitentium. And S. Basile (signifieth the like doctrine of the Greek Church) in quaestionibus brevioribus interrogat. 288. saying, necessariò peccata ijs apariri debent, quibus credita est dispensatio mysteriorum Dei: siquidem rationem hanc in poenitentia etiam veteres illos cernimus secutos fuisse: etc. And the century writers Centur. 3. cap. 6. col. 127. line 29. 30. 31. etc. Describe the life doctrine and usage of the Church of africa out of the writings of Cyprian, and Tertullian. And see further hereof heretofore pag. 53. num. 7. And in the margin there at the letter t etc. Fathers and Protestants (b) Sacerius in loc. common. de confession fol. 289. b. saith it is an error adserere confessionem quae coram Deo fit sufficere, ita ut contemnas claves & absolutionem per fratrens: Hic error prorsus tollit usum clavium & absolutionis (etc.) falsum ergo est confessionem, quae coram Deo fit tollere confessionem privatam: etc. In like plain manner is private confession defended most earnestly against our adversaries. by sundry of their own other brethren, as namely by Lobechius in disput. theol pag. 295. sect. 4. By Conradus Schluselburg. in theol. Caluinistarum, fol. 147. a. By Melancthon l. 1. epistolarum pag. 234. ante medium. By the confessions of Saxony, and Boheme in the Harmony of Confessions. pag. 231. circa medium. and pag. 357. and 358. initio. and by many others. do likewise acknowledge) is (to our greatest grief) condemned for Lasa maiestas, as being a disloyal abnegation of our allegiance. To the clearing whereof, we do (as in the presence of God and your Majesty) protest upon our souls, that no such matter, is therein or thereby expressed implied or meant: our recusancy or refraining to be present at Protestants service: (notwithstanding that the like denial or recusancy of Protestants to be present at our Catholic service, is prescribed and taught by sundry of their own most learned (c) M. Willet in his Synopsis printed Anno 1600. pag. 612. 613. 614. teacheth this recusancy, and allegeth in proof of his opinion sundry testimonies from the most famous Protestants, as Ridley, Latimer, Philpot, Bradford etc. In like manner is it further taught by Ridley in the Acts & Monuments pag. 1285. b. paulo ante medium. By Hawks Act. Mon. pag. 1150. b. initio. and 1151. a. circa medium. By Melancthon in concilijs theologicis pag. 628. By Peter Martyr in his discourse hereof recited in Melancthons' foresaid treatise of Consil. theolog. pag. 634. 635. By Martin Bucer alleged ibidem pag. 632. and 633. and 634. By john calvin alleged ibidem pag. 635. fine and 636. and by the Divines of Germany alleged by Sleydane in his Commentaries Englished. lib. 7. fol. 87. a. circa medium. writers) is nevertheless judged in us a kind of froward and superfluous remorse, and accordingly taxed with a confiscation or waist of our goods and yearly revenue: whereunto might be added our sundry other losses, contumelies, imprisonments and public disgraces heretofore sustained whereat though we do all mourning plain, yet complain we will not, THE PROTESTANTS OBJECTION OF Catholics disloyalty retorted upon themselves. SECT. 2. AND for somuch as sundry of our uncharitable adversaries who are nothing moved with our foresaid calamities, do out of their inveterate and implacable hatred, daily seek to avert from us your highness most gracious and Princely disposition, inclined otherwise to commiserat all such as are afflicted, and do therefore to make us more odious often inculcate the doctrine wherewith certain our writers are charged concerning the Pope's undertaking in some cases to dispose Princes, pretending with all what great danger may at last hence ensue when by reason of your majesties mercy in the mean time to us extended, our estates shall be bettered & number increased: Vouchsafeth your HIGHNESS (before we enter into petition for ourselves) graciously to weigh with equal consideration that which hereunto we shall allege, aswell concerning our adversaries, who thus charge us, as in answer for ourselves that are so charged. First then concerning our adversaries, we say that they in their thus urging or but remembering of this point against us, do of all others show themselves most indiscreetely malicious, for: quis tulerit grachum de seditione loquentem etc. or how can it be decorum in any, to charge others with imputation of that, wherein themselves are further chargeable? And although we for our parts do altogether dislike all acerbity and gall of in vective writing; being yet thus provoked to such just and necessary recrimination as our own defence and safety requireth; we say from themselves as followeth 1 First concerning the Lutherans doth not Sleydane Luther's own Scholar make full report of the seditious doctrine of the Divines of Magdenburge maintaining and publicly (d) In Sleydane in English hist. l. 22. fol. 345. a circa medium the Divines of Magdenburg thus teach thereof: If it so fortune that the Magistrate pass the bounds of his authority and command any thing that is wicked etc. If he attempt any force he should be resisted etc. and seeing the case standeth t●us, there can no rebellion of right be objected unto us. And ibidem fol. 345. b. initio It is further said, The Minister's of the Church set forth a writing wherein they recite the confession of their Doctrine, and declare how it is lawful for the inferior Magistrate to defend himself against the the superior compelling him to forsake the truth. teaching in defence of their rebellion, that in case of religion it was lawful for subjects even with force to resist the Prince: doth not Chitraeus a learned Lutheraine (e) Chitraeus in Chronic. Anno 1593. & 1594. pag. 74. fine and 75. saith hereof tandem rex flecti se sibique persuadere passus est, ut assentiretur se religionem & cultum Dei, in verbo Dei & Augustana confession comprehensum etc. solam in regno conseruare ac tueri, nec templa in urbibus ulla alteri, quam Augustinae confessionis reli●ioni destinare velle, nec aditum in senatum regni, vel ad ulla r●gni officia publica, alijs quam Augustinae confessionis doctrinam retinentibus concedi debere: regem ve●o ip●um ad suae religionis Pontificiae exercitium, sacellis arrium in quibus habitabit contentum fore. etc. repo t how the King of Suethland being a Catholic was by hi● subjects the Lutheraines urged to assent to the decree that no Catholic should bear any office in that kingdom and that the King should content himself with his Catholic service to be Celebrated only in his own private Chapel? was not the force attempted by the Germans (*) Of the Germans insurrection against their Emperor, see further hereafter in this tract in the margin at the figure 4. against thei● Emperor in defence of their Lutheran religion so publicly m●de known to the world with lamentable effusion of much Christian blood throughout Germany, as that the same is mu●h more worthy o● pity t●en reme●bran e? Se●o●dl● concerning t●e Cal●iniste●, doth not calvin himself teach hereof, that (f) Calvine in Dan. c. b. vers. 22.25. saith, abdica●t se potestate terreni Principes dum insurgunt contra Deum, immo indigni sunt quicenscantur in hominum numero, potius ergo conspuere oportet in illorum capita, quam illis parere etc. earthly Princes do bereave h●m selue o● authority when they erect themselves against God, yea that they are unworthy to b● accounted in the number of men, and therefore we must rather spit upon their faces, then obey them etc. doth not S●inglius likewise say, (g) Suinglius lib. 4. epistolarum Suinglij & oecolampad. epist. Cunhardo Somio & Symperto etc. pag. 868. post medium & pag. 869. saith, Promittendum est Caesari officium debitum si modo fidem nobis permittat illibatam etc. Romanum Imperium, imò quodque Imperium ubi religionem sinceram opprimere ceperit, & nos illud negligentes patimur, iam negatae aut contemptae religionis non minus rei erimus quam illi ipsi oppressores: exemplum est apud Hieremiam 15. ubi exterminium cominatur Deus Israeli quod Manastem permisissent impunè esse pessimum. due l●ial●ie is to be promised to Ces●r, i● so that he p r●nt to us our rel gio in violable &. if the roman Empire or what ●●her, soverai n● s●euer, should oppress the sincere religion, and we negligently further the same, we shallbe charged with contempt, no less● then the oppressors thereof them s●lues. whereo● (●aith he, abusing therein ●he Scriptures most grossly) we have an example in the 15. of jeremy, where the destruction of the Pe●pl● is prophesied for that they suffered their Kings Ma●●ss s ●e●●g ungodly to be unpunished. And doth he not advise to have this Doctrine privately & with respect (h) (Ibidem pag. 869. post medium.) Prudenter igitur ac paulatim agenda sunt huiusmodi, atque cum paucis quibus credere possis quae ardua sunt. Communicated unto certain chief pe●sons of credit, did not also the Caluinists of Embden (as a brother of t●e●r o●ne (i) Gerhardus Giesekenius lib. de veritate Corporis Christi in Sacra caena. pag. 256. paulo post medium saith, Embdens●s illustrem dominum suum, mota seditione & advocato peregrino milite, fere non solum civit●te, sed tota ditione pepulissent: pacti eti●m sunt ne pot●statem habeat dictus illustris comes ullius religionis nisi C●lvinistae exercitium subditis in Civitate Embd●na concedere, & tamen liceat (quod magnae est gratiae) facere in aula concionatorem, qui sit Augustinae confessionis. H● sunt fructus fidei vestrae etc. reporteth) by force expel the Civil Magistrate, being a Lu●herane and enforce that the e●ercise of the Calvinistes religion should be public and ●he other but private; to the Magistrate in his o●ne house. Is there not also like further ●epo●t or mention made by the Protestant writer ●ri●tuus of the (2) Crispinus in his book of the Church's State pag. 509. initio. Sedition at Basile betwixt the Bu ge●●●s and certain of the Senators for the cause of religio? and that the Burg●sses hau●ng taken arms, cast down the Imag●● in the Temple's, and cau●ed the Sena●e to agree to what they demanded: and that hereupon twelve Senators favouring Papistry were dejected out of the Senate. and that in this sort, the Mass was then abolished through all that Signory: Whereunto might be added the known confessed example of like (3) Osiander in epitom-hist. Eccl. centur. 16. pag. 801. post med. &. 803. ante medium. impatient fury at Antwerp, and certain other places of Holland, Zelland etc. as also of (4) Testified by Crispin●● ubi supra pag. 627. fin●, and by Osiander centur. 16. pag. 959. And Saravia in defence. tract. de diversis gradibus ministrorum etc. cap 2. pag. 74 ante & circa medium. saith, quid his verbis D. Beza si●nificare velit quando pios expectare non a●quum censet donec lupi publica auctorit●te expellantur, quidam dubitant: & videre privata auctoritate lupos illos posse expelli sicut in Belgio & alijs lo●s factum est, ubi templa & monasteria cum Monachis & Episcopis, vniu●rsoque clero pa●istico spoli●ta & diruta sunt populari tum ultu & militari licentia, invitis summis magistratibu●, & contra fidem datam. Petrus Dat●enus, and others chief of the Congregation in Gaunt, who Anno 1578. stirred up the Citizens there to thrust out all th● M●sse Priests and monks out o● the City, and put their goods into their treasury etc. doth not Mr. Doctor Su●clyffe accordingly confess that (k) M. Sutclyffe in his answer to a certain Libel Sapplicatorie etc. pag. 75. paulo post medium. Bezain his book de iure magistratum in s●bditos doth arm the subjects against the Prince in these causes, & that this (l) M. Sutclyffe ubi supra pag. 192. post medium book overthroweth in effect all the authority of Christian Kings and Magistrates. Doth he not likewise further affirm (m) M. Sutclyffe ubi supra pag. 75. post medium. that the author of the book which is entitled, vindiciae contra tyrannos, whom (saith he) many affirm to be Beza or Hottoman doth give power to the subjects not only to resist but also to de●ose and kill the Pri ce if he impugn God's religion, did not john Knox allege in proof of his own seditious opinion (n) Hereof see the history of the Church of Scotland printed by Vautrovilier pag. 213. and M. Sutclyffe ubi supra pag. 192. ante med. calvin, and certain other ministers then residing at Geneva, teaching that it is lawful for subjects to reform religion when Princes will not, yea rather than fail even by force of arms, do not our adversaries themselves acknowledge accordingly that the Protestants (o) Hereof see Bodinus de republica pag. 353. and Calvine to Sadolet. pa. 172. and M. Sutclyffe ubi supra pag. 194. initio, and the L. Bishop of London in his Survey of the pretended holy discipline. pa. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. of Geneva did depose their Liege Lord and Prince from his temporal right there, from which yet to this day they keep him by force excluded. In so much as the Lord bishop of London, and Mr. D. Sutcliffe pro●esse without any coverture of words, plainly to dislike (p) See the foresaid S●rvey etc. pag. 14. circa med. and M. Sutclyffe in his said answer pag. 194. initio. the divinity which was pretended in defence thereof by the Ministers of Geneva. (3) Concerning the Low Countries, see Osiander in epitome. hist. eccles. centur. 16. pag. 941. fine, where he saith Belgici publico scripto Domino & regi suo Philippo omnem obedientiam & subiectionem renunciant. And see there further pag. 801. post medium, and 803. ante medium, and 805. prope finem. Thirdly to forbear aswell the confessed example of joannes (*) See Osiander in his Epitome. centur. 16. pag. 802. fine. Functius a prime Protestant, publicly executed for his offence of this kind, as also (for some respect) what is or may be further said concerning the Protestant Subjects of (2) For France see Peter Martyr in his epistles annexed to his common places in English pag. 157. b. and Osiander in epitome. hist. Eccles. centur. 16. pag. 697. initio & 708. circa medium. and 804. post. medium. and 809. initio. And see Crispinus in his book of the estate of the Church pag. 614. post medium, and 615. and 616. fine, and 619. post medium, and 611. fine, and 613. fine, and 625. post medium. And see the History of the civil Wars of France (gathered from Anno 1585. till 1591. Printed at London Anno 1591.) of the kings royal authority joined with the Leaguers, pag. 91. initio, and 168. fine, and of resistance after made thereto by them of the reformed religion pag. 48. and 49. fine, and 51. circa medium, and 104. and 135. post medium, and 143. circa med. and 144. aunt med. and 165. paulo post medium, and 169. post medium, and 172. etc. France, and the Low (3) Concerning the Low Countries, see Osiander in epitome. hist. eccles. centur. 16. pag. 941. fine, where he saith Belgici publico scripto Domino & regi suo Philippo omnem obedientiam & subiectionem renunciant. And see there further pag. 801. post medium, and 803. ante medium, and 805. prope finem. Countries, & many other (4) See these other examples in Osiander centur. 16. pag. 115. circa med. and 735. initio & circa med. & 599. paulo ante med. and 692. fine, and 802. fine, and 942. and 125. aunt med. and 523. initio, and 350. aunt med. and 1120. fine, and in Crispinus in his book of the estate of the Church pag. 636. circa medium, and 682. ante medium. And see the Protestant writer Dresserus in part secunda millinarij sexti, where he acknowledgeth and reporteth concerning G●rmanie, pag. 656. ante medium, saying, scripto publico Saxonem & Lautgravium proscribit Cesar tanquam perfidos rebels etc. Protestants cognita tanta severitate Bellum & ipsi denunciant Caesari (and pag. 658. fine) Mauritius Sax. elector & Augustus frater, non quiescendum sibi arbitrabantur, priusquam in tuto religionis Lutheranae professionem collocassent, inde expeditionem Mauritius in ipsum Caesarem suscepit▪ (and pag. 661. ante medium, he acknowledgeth that) dissidium & bellum omne ex mutatione religionis Pontificiae in Lutheranam in Germaniae quibusdam ducatibus, comitatibus, & civitatibus ortum est: and pag. 464. ante med. he saith, Mauritius itaque cum rege Galliae foedus fecit & in obtinendum id, tamdem ratus quod aequitate non poterat, milites presidiarios in Pacificatione Magdeburgica dimissos tacitè rursum conduxit, & contra Caesarem ipsum adduxit: etc. like foreign examples confessed and reported even by Protestant writers, & to come nearer home, was not our Countryman Mr. Goodman so far carried away with this rage of sedition that he doubted not to publish, that in case of religion (q) See Goodman's book, pag. 4. 43. 59 63. 87. 72. 99 180. 184. 185. 196. it was lawful to resist the Superior Powers, and for subjects to withstand their Prince. Doth he not hereupon affirm that (r) Cap. 14. pag. 204. ad 212. Wyatt did but his duty, and that it was the duty of all others that professed the Gospel to have risen with him: is it not evident and confessed that this (s) M. Sutclyffe in his answer etc. pag. 192. fine. book● was printed at Geneva in Queen Mary's time, (t) See whittingham's Epistle before Goodman's book. commanded by M. Wihittingham, and (u) Whittingham ubi supra, and M. Sutclyffe in his said answer, etc. pag. 193. initio. approved to be good & godly by the chiefest men of learning that were then in that City: did not the auctor of the book of obedience written in Queen Mary's time, affirm therein that (x) Obed. pag. 99 and 113. and se M. Sutclyffe in his foresaid answer pa. 193. ante med. and see the book entitled dangerous Positions etc. pag. 36. circa medium. Queen Marie ought to be put to death, as being a tyrant, a moster, & a cruel beast: did not one William Thomas and others accordingly conspire to (y) Hollinsheades great Chronicle the last edition volume 3. pag. 1104. a. initio. murder the said Queen, and was not yet the said William (z) Master Cowper in his Chronicle fol. 365. b. ante medium. Thomas being for that offence hanged, drawn, and quartered nothing abashed to justify and say (a) M. Stowe in his Annals or Chronicle Printed Anno 1592. pag. 1058. paulo ante medium. at his death that he died for his Country: etc. As concerning our English Puritans of latter times who yet at this present (to exasperate the state against us) do so tediously and tragically riot in their pulpits with so much want of matter and wasteful prodigality of time, we will requite their malice with all sobriety and patience forbearing purposely at this present to mention in particular, what may be, and by their own brethren already is (b) In M. Sutclyffes answer to a libel Supplicatory and in the treatise entitled dangerous Positions and Proceed published and practised within this Island of Britainy under pretence of reformation, whereof M. Bancrofte is said to b●e the Auctor. And in the book entitled conspiracy for pretended reformation, etc. printed 1592. pag. 28. 29. 30. 32. 33 35. collected in this kind against them out of their own writings as also we willingly pass over the like further example's to well known to your Majesty of, Knox, Buchanan, Andrew Melum, & those other unquiet spirits of scotland, whose seditious doctrine & designments complotted against your Majesty, are to the world more odious and doubtful, in that besides other respects, they did perpetrate the same against your Highness, a Prince zealous in their own religion only we will premonish in general, that the jurisdiction (more than papal) which they under the vail of paretie, wou●d induce into every of their several parishes, is, (as her late Majesty observed out of her own Princely experience) (*) In her majesties Oration in Stows abridgement. pag. 1196. prope initium. dangerous to a King●y rul●: and to the state so much the more doubtful and to be suspected, by how much it is evident, that many (c) M. Hooker in his preface to his book of Ecclesiastical policy, pag. 34. post. medium, saith to the Puritans you admit so many Supremacies, as there are several parishes etc. domestic Popes among whom is no subordination, are to be reputed for more turbulent, and enabled with opportunity to attempt the hurt by them intended, than any one foreign Pope can be: a thing so evident that certain of the rowne brethren doubt not to affirm & say of them, that (d) M. D. Sutclyffe in his foresaid answer etc. pag. 192. prope initium & pag. 198. ante medium. they do deliver doctrine as dangerous to Princes, as R●ss●, Sanders, Allen, and other Papists. A REPETITION OF CONFESSED examples proving the loyalty of English Catholics. SECT. 3. BUT certain of our adversaries will perhaps hereto answer (which is all they can well answer) that sundry of them do dislike of the foresaid seditious doctrine and practices wherewith their foresaid brethren are (as before charged) and that therefore we should greatly wrong them, if for the example of those, we should hold all of them in like sort chargeable. Truly we acknowledge no less, and do persuade ourselves that many grave & learned amongst them, would profess and teach Loyalty to their Sovereign, any diversity of religion notwithstanding. If now then they could but afford us the like charitable and indifferent censure, concerning that other foresaid doctrine wherewith they charge certain of our writers, they should so discern matter no less evident & sufficient for our excuse. To allege therefore even from themselves, that which blinded malice will not as now suffer certain of them to confess: (& by themselves published) and first concerning our own country: To omit the known doctrine of (2) In the epistle of john Harte to the Reader, set before the beginning of the Conference between Doctor raynold & him published by authority. Mr. Harte and (3) In M. Bishop's book entitled A cortuyse Conferen e etc. written by john Bishop a recusant Papist Printed at London for Robert Dexter in Paul's Churchyard at the sign of the Brazen Serpent. Mr. Bishop do not the English Chronicles testify concerning Salisbury, & those other (who were sinisterly seduced, to design with Babington to the effusion of innocent & sacred blood) that sundry of them, as namely (h) H●llinsheades Chronicle of England the last edition vol. 3. pag. 1574. b. line 8. Salisbury, and (i) Ibidem pag. 1574. b. linea. 14. 15. Dunne, did at the time of their death, (when their conscience, and religion was not to be dissembled) publicly and most grievously repent them of their error, dissuading all Cathol ckes from attempting to restore rol g●●n b● violence. Did not joanes very earnestly as then & to the commiseration of the beholders (k) Ibidem linea. 60. pr●test, that although he was a Catholic yet he so deeply weigheth liberty f his country as that he would be and ever was rea●y to s●e●d his life in withstanding any force Italishe, Spanish, or whatsoever? Doth not the said Chronicle report ●n like sort concerning ●he conspiracy wherewith a●r● was char●ed, that when he came to conferee with the Seminary Priests beyond the Seas, (l) See Hollinsheads foresaid Chronicle volume 3. pag. 1385. b. linea 41. 42. Mr. Wat●●s a learned Pries● plainly pronounced that it was utterly ●nlawfull, with wh●m ma●y English Priest did agree: And that ●ar●i in his letter to our late Sovereign did confess that (m) Ibidem pag. 1387. A. linea. 36. most of the ●●gl s● Divines did utterly mislike & ●odemne it: And also that William Chreichton the Scottish jesuite in his private resolution thereof to Parrie (n) Ibidem pag. 1387. b. linea vult. Beyond the seas, did at sundry times answer him (o) Ibidem pag. 1388. a. linea 24. quod omnino non liceret, that it was altogether unlawful, and withal alleged unto him sundry grave (p) Ibiden linea 32. etc. reasons to withdraw him from that reported enterprise. In like manner the book entitled the execution of justice in England etc. penned (as some think by a late deceased worthy (q) The late Lord Treasurer. Magistrate of very honourable memory published by authority, and now since (r) It is inserted into Hollinsheades foresaid Chronicle volume. 3. Anno Eliz. 26. pa. 1358. & 1359. etc. inserted into the foresaid Chronicle is it not plentiful in testimonies of this kind? doth it not affirm and say, that (s) Ibiden pag. 1360. b. linea 26. there be many subjects known in the Realm, that do not forbear to profess their religion & yet do also profess Loyalty and obedience to her Majesty, and offer readily to her Majesty defence to impugn and resist any foreign force though it should come from the Pope: In respect whereof they rece●ued favour, & that (t) Ibidem linea 35. of these sorts there have been and are a ●umber of persons not of base and vulgar note. A for example (u) Ibidem linea 40. the first and chief by office (saith the book) was Doctor H●ath Archbishop of York, a faithful and quiet subject▪ Also (x) Ibid. lin. 53. 54. etc. Doctor Poole Bishop of Peterborrow a very quiet subject: Doctor Tunstall Bishop of Durham a person of grea● reputation; Doctor White, and Doctor Oglethorp● the one of Winchester, the other of Carlisle Bishops and he of Carlisle so in●●●ed to dutifulness to the Queen, Majesty as he did the office 〈◊〉 the Consecration and Coronation of her Majesty. To these also are there added (y) Ibidem linea 65. Doctor Thurl●bey, and D●ct●r Watson the one of Eli●, the other of Lincoln Bishops. Besides some (z) Ibidem linea 69. & pag. 1361. a. linea 2. abbots and Dean●s there mentioned, and (a) Ibiden pag. 1361. A. linea 61. a great number of Lay-men of good possessions and credit in th●ir country. In like manner our (b) M. D. Bilson Bishop of Winchester in his true difference between Christian subjection & unchristian rebellion part. 3. pag. 243. 244. adversaries themselves do take notice and affirm that the Com●ns of this Land in the reign of King Richard the second did in open Parliament acknowledge in regard of spiritual jurisdiction the (c) These words of the Commons are in the Statutes of King Richard the 2. Anno 16. C. 5. Bishop of Rome (to be) their most holy father and yet withal did at the very same time expressly deny that the (d) In the said Statutes ubi supra and in D. Bilson ubi supra pag. 244. ante medium. Crown of England which was immediately subject to God and to no other in all things touching the regality of the said Crown, should be submitted to the Bishop of Rome: wherefore (say they) we will be with our said sovereign Lord the King and his said Crown and his regality in the cases aforesaid and in all other cases attempted against him his Crown and regality in all points to live and die. Is it not also testified concerning controversy moved in this kind in the time of King Edward the first, that to use Hollinsheades words hereof (2) Hollinshead in his second volume of the last edition pag. 309. b. line 66. All the Lords temporal of the Land assembl d in Parliament at Lincoln in name of all the Estates there gathered did answer (concerning) the Pope's r●ght to bein●ge etc. that they would not consent that their King should do any thing that might tend to the disinheriting of the r●ght of the Crown of England: (And that) (3) Hollinshead ibid. pag. 310. a. line 2. it was never known that the Ki●gs of this land had answered or ought to answer for their rights in the same Realm ●f●re any judge Ecclesiastical or Secular. Did not they in their letter hereof specially written to Pope Bonifac● & by Hollinshead at large recited, acknowledge and call Pope Boniface to whom they did so write (4) Ibidem pag. 310. a. line 11 Boniface by God's providence high Bishop of the holy Roman and universal Church & themselves, his (5) Ibidem pag. 310. a. line 14. devout Sons: and did they not also (all that notwithstanding) yet further affirm, that (6) Ibidem. pag. 311. a. line 2. the Kings of England ought not to answer for their rights in the said Realm or for any their temporalties before any judge Ecclesiastical or Secular by reason of the free pre-eminence of the estate of his Royal dignity and custom kept without breach at all times And that (7) Ibidem pag. 311. a. line 9 after full treaty and deliberation it was their common agreement and consent with one mind & should be without fail in time to come that their foresaid Lord the King ought by no means to answer in judgement nor aught to send any Proctor's to the Pope's presence especially seeing that the premises tended manifestly to the disinheriting of the Crown of England, and also to the hurt of the liberties & laws of their Fathers, and the duty of their oath made, which (say they) we will maintain with all our power & defend with all our strength & will not suffer our foresaid Lord the King to do or attempt the premisse being so unaccustomed and before not heard of? Hitherto concerning only those testimonies which our very adversaries afford us from the Catholics of our own nation, whereunto we add this one further observation concerning our own country, that whereas at the first coming to the Crown of our late Sovereign Queen Elizabeth, so many bishops as are before mentioned, and so many other of the Clergy and Commons of this Realm, were all of them Catholic, and at that time had also the public state and government settled in that course, and so thereby were of force (no doubt) sufficient to have impugned and withstood the alteration then evidently foreseen to ensue, they did yet her Majesties known professed diversity of religion notwithstanding) generally and without resistance receive her withal (g) For the Lord Archbishop and Chancellor of England being a Catholic made a public Oration to persuade the people to acknowledge her Majesty for their Queen. H●llinshead ubi supra pa. 1170. a. lin. 35 36. etc. and the Lords and Bishops with all speed repaired into London to proclaim her: Hollinsheade ubi supra pag. 1170 b. linea 15. Loyal and dutiful respect, whereas yet again in clear example to the contrary, it is evident that Queen Marie came to the Crown not without open resistance, & endured afterwards mo●e known (H) Concerning open rebellions in the field in Queen Mary's time, M. Stowe in his Annals printed 1592. mentioneth the rebellion then made by the Duke of Northumberland, & his complices pag. 1039. and pag. 1045. circa med. he mentioneth how that Cranmer Archbishop of Canterbury was condemned for high treason. Also pa. 1046. post med. & 1047 etc. He mentioneth the rebehon made by W●at & his confederates, & pag. 1070 he mentioneth the rebellion made by Tho. Stafforde & others, and their taking of Scarborowe Castle. rebellions in open field within the Realm during but those five years of her short government, than were after in the five and forty succeeding of her late majesties reign: whereto might be likewise added the several notable and violent misbehaviours of those times, done (to omit other) even to the public preacher (i) M. Stowe ubi supra, mentioneth pa. 1039. initio, how at one time a dagger was thrown at the preacher at Paul's Cross & pag. 1058. paulo post med that at another time a Gun was shot at the Preacher there, the pellet whereof went very near him. at Paul's Cross, the like whereof to have been committed by Catholics would have appeared very strange during the Reign of Queen Elizabeth. A LIKE REPETITION OF CONfessed examples proving the Loyalty of foreign Catholics. SECT. 4. Now concerning foreign examples do not our adversaries affirm and confess that the French King, (k) M.D. Bilson ubi supra part. 3. pag. 223. paulo ante medium. Phillippe the fai●e resolutely withstood the Pope with all his interdictions and depositions: that likewise concerning the Emperor (l) M.D. Bilson ubi supra part. 3. pag. 215. fine and 216. initio & Naucler Gener. 43. Anno 1344. Lodowick the fourth, the Princes and Bishops of Germany signified their general determination to him in these words. Most gracious Lord, the Prince's electors, and other faithful of your Empire perusing the articles of your submisison, which the Pope requireth, and resteth on, with one consent have decreed them to be conceived to the subversion and overthrow of the Empire, so that neither you nor they by reason of the oath you have taken to the Empire can yield to the, & they intent to send Orators to the Pope, & to the College of Cardinals to request him to cease from this course, if they re●use, your Princes are resolved to meet at Rhens upon Rhine there to deliberate with you for the further resisting of these practices doth not D. Bilson further confess & affirm that (m) ibidem part. 3. pag. 212. circa medium in the margin there. all the Prelates & Princes of Germany took with Lodowicke against the Pope, & that upon (n) Ibiden pag. 212. post med. & Naucler gener. 45. anno 1338. grounds (of the Popes) own Canon, as namely these the Prince hath his dominion not from the Pope but only from God? And do not our adversaries in like sort affirm and acknowledge as much touching the emperors Frederick (p) Concerning Frederick the second, see M.D. Bilson ubi supra part. 3. pa. 187. fine & Vsperg. in anno 1227. And hereof see further M. Bilson part. 3. pag. 206. initio, and pag. 207. ante & circa medium, 173. ante medium & fine. the second and Henry (*) Concerning Henry the fourth, Osiander in epitome hist Eccles. cent. 11. pag. 193. fine and pag. 223. circa med. testifieth his public defence made by Wezilo Bishop of Mentz and Sigebert the Monk, notwithstanding the Pope's former excommunication. the forth? do the● not in like manner take further notice and say, that (t) D. B●lson ubi supra part. 1. pag. 130. circa medium, and part. 3. pag. 233. ante medium, & Chronicon Masse● in Anno 1510. And see further hereof Crispinus in his book of the state of the Church pag. 495 circa med. and Crispinus ubi supra, addeth further, how that it was by the same Council agreed that the Pragmatic Sanction should be kept throughout France, notwithstanding the Pope's excommunication. Lewes the twelfth in a council at Towers had the resolution of all the French Bishops, that he might contemn the Pope's injust censures: that also (u) See the History of the civil wars of France from Anno 1585. till 1591. printed 1591. pag 58. circa medium. the Senate of Paris having considered upon the Pope's excommunication, did Anno 1585., reprove the Pope for usurping upon the liberties of the Crown of Fran●e, and condemned the excommunication: that likewise (as Mr. Bilson affirmeth (1) Affirmed by Doctor Bilson ubi supra, pag. 4. fine. Thomas Aquinas had this moderation, that Princes should no● lose their dominion for heresy, wherewith even Cardinal Bellarmine himself (who is most charged he ein by our adversaries) seemeth yet so far to assent, as that he maketh the King subject to censure, but conditionally (*) Bellarmine tom. 1. lib. 5 de Romano Pont●f. cap. 7. if he go about to draw by f●rce his subjects to heresy and infidelity: affirming also that (⁋) Bellarmine ibidem. if Princes do not endeavour this, but permit liberty of conscience to their subjects, them (saith he) Non existimo posse eos privari Dominio suo. I think they may n●t be deprived of their dominion for he acknowledgeth the Pope (2) Bellarmine ibidem cap. 4. the title of that chapter being, Papam non habere ullam temporalem jurisdictionem direct. to have (in this case) no temporal jurisdiction directly but only (3) Bellarmine ibidem cap. 7. ante medium. quando al●ter non potest bonum spirituale tueri: when he cannot otherwise preserve the spiritual good: in so much as he doubteth not to affirm that (¶) Bellarm. lib. 2. de Romano Pontifice. cap. 29. vesus finem. it is lawful to resist the Pope invading the body, or troubling the common wealth: it is lawful I say (saith he) to resist him by no doing that which he commandeth, and by letting or hindering him that he execute not his will: whereunto might be added as well the late (4) See this at large in the civil wars of France in English, collected by Anthony Coll●net. from An. 1585. till 1591. printed at London 1591. lib. 7. & 8. examples yet fresh in memory of the Catholics of France who not only acknowledged but also assisted, and aided this their present King notwithstanding his then known diversity of religion or any former excommunication h●d from the Popes As also the King of Spain's no less known detaining (even to this day) of Naples against the Pope notwithstanding the Pope's yearly claiming of it ●n the right of his See. And thus much briefly concerning such foreign examples as are alleged and acknowledged by our own adversaries Only we th●nke this one point further worthy of observation. That whereas it is manifest and confessed that sundry Catholic Princes have been by their Protestant subjects actually deposed as your highness late Mother from her kingdom of Scotland; (which we refer to your Maiest●es own more feeling (*) How they used that poor Lady my mother is not unknown, and with grief I may remember it: who desired only a private Chapel wherein to serve God after her manner with some few selected persons, but could not obtain it at their hands: in the sum of the Conference before his Majesty between the Bishops & other of his Clergy printed 1584. pag 81. fine, & 82 initio. testimony) the temporal Lord of Geneva from his territories there, & to forbear the examples of the Low Countries) the King (⁋) Hereof see heretofore, tract. 3. sect. 2. in the margin at the letter c. of Suethland restrained as before to his private Catholic service ●n his own Chapel, we find not yet on the other part, that so much as any one Protestant Prince, was ●t any t●me deposed by his Catholic subjects so different ●re the spirits of Catholics and Protestant's: & yet is it evident that Protestant's h●ue received their chiefest beginning, increase and strength, by the only favou● & toleration of their Catholic Princes. A PROTESTATION OF THE now English Catholics. SECT. 5. AS concerning ourselves we hold that the authority given by God to Kings, is immediate, absolute, and ndependant and we do acknowledge from the Scriptures, that as (d) Rom. 13, 1. there is no power but from God, so likewise that unto (e) Wisdom. 6, 3. King rule is given by the Lord, and pow●r by h● most High, that (f) Prov. 8, 15. by him Kings do reign, as being (g) Rom. 13, 4, 6. his minister: and that (h) Rom. 13, 2. whosoever r●siste●h them, d● h withal resist he ordinance of God: Hen e it is that we are commanded to (i) Math. 22, 21. & Rom. 13, 7. tender unto Caesar the tribute of o●r obedience: to be (k) 1. Pet. 2, 13. subject to the king as having pre-eminence to (l) Prov. 24, 21. ●eare, & (m) 1. Pet. 21, 17. honour him (n) Exod. 22, 28. Act. 13, 5. not to speak evil of him, no not so much as in our (o) Eccles. 10, 20. thought, to imagine his hurt; but to be (p) Rom. 13, 5. subject of ne essiti● and even for conscience sake. Lest that by our disobedience we (q) Rom. 13, 2. purchase to our selves domnation. In so much as we doubt not further to affirm with our brethren the Rhemists, that (r) See the Rhemish Testament and the Annot. therein. Rom. cap. 13. vers. 2. after M. Fulkes edition, fol. 259. a paulo post med. Christians are bound in conscience to obey (even) their heathen Emperors: Hereupon it is that we differ ●n doctrine from our adversaries. (2) See Bellarmin. lib. 3. de Lai●is cap 10. & 11. maintaining against them & their contrary (3) Luther de Seculari potestate, in tom. 6. Germanico saith, among Christians no man can or aught to be Magistrate but each one is to other equally subject etc. among Christian men none is superior save one and only Christ: And in serm. de o●e perdita, & also in his sermons Englished by W●lliam Gage. pag. 97. fine. Luther further saith, therefore is Christ our Lord that he may make us such as himself is, & as he cannot suffer himself to be t●de and bound ●y Laws etc. so also ought not the cons●ie c● of a Christian to suffer them. And in hi● said sermons pag. 261. circa med. he doth ad●on s● that we obey the C●v●ll Magistrate, f●r (saith he) there cometh no loss of Christ●an liberty or faith thereby: for forsomuch as they do● not contend that those things are necessary to salvation which they ordain etc. howbeit, if any should contend that those commandments of the Civil Magistrate be necessary to salvation (as doubtless they be in regard that they bind us in ●ons●i●nce, and to break them were sin) then as it is said of the traditions of the Pap●sts, the ●otrari● rather were to be done. And M. Whitaker doubteth not to maintain this doct●in●o. Luther, teaching us obedience of policy rather than conscience. For whereas Luther is ●h●●●d to say absurdly. Christiani liberi sunt a statutis hominum M. W●●taker expl●neth and dependeth the samesaying liberi Christiani s●nt non ut n●llis legi●u obtemperent, 〈◊〉 ●que semp●r v●●●n●, s ● vd conscientia: mentesque sua●, legum human●rum relig●one liberat●●s●e ●n●●ll●gant. W ita ●r ●●●●ss. ad ●ati●nes Campiant rat. 8. pag. 154. circa medium. And s●e this l●k●●octrine in Danau, in prima partes a●tera ●arte co●tra Bel arm●n●m pag. 1127 assertion t at the Civil Magistrates Laws made of things lawful or indifferent do bind us even in conscience And from this sured groundwork proceedeth likewise that reverend and religious respect of love and duty, wherewith we do admire your royal Majesty, and hence lastly it is that we do as now in most humble remonstrance and testimony of our Loyalty acknowledge and recognise, even with unspeakable joy to ourselves and all due thankfulness therefore to ●od, that your HIGHNESS is our true undoubted lawful Sovereign Lord & King, in whom is fulfilled the successful and blessed event of a most grave and prudent (*) In regard ●●d ●o●e●ight of this which ●ow is h● pely conine to pass K. Henry 7. espoused his eldest ●●ugh●● to Iam●s King of S●o●la●●, Anno 1502. foresight, and we thereby enriched with the most happy union of our long divided continent, by whom only also and no other, our dearest country may enjoy her established and sweetest ●eace, avoiding so, that dreadful confusion and turbulency of state, which otherwise our former fears have of long imagined: and unto whom only therefore immediately and next under God, we are by all laws divine and human obliged in the highest degree of all earthly allegiance: To the inviolable observing whereof, against the ambitious claim or competency of all pretenders whatsoever foreign or domestical, we do hereby (as in the presence of God and his Angels) most seriously, and sincerely protest upon our souls: most humbly this one for ever: imploring of your Majesty, that whereas the ancient enemy of our Catholic faith (observing the weakness of such as are most apt to be seduced) will (in discredit of our religion) still busy himself with (s) Math. 13, 24. Sowing of tars amongst the wheat. If therefore (as God forbidden) and we strongly hope the contrary, any one or other unquiet spirit should arise and (t) 1. joh. 2, 19 & Act. 15, 24. go forth from us (as amongst the (u) john. 6, 70. chosen twelve one was a devil) whose least error or indiscretion our politic adversaries (over greedy of our discredit) would draw on and aggravate against us with all tragical & immoderate amplification, your HIGHNESS would yet in your Princely and rightful judgement, distinguish the fault from the religion, returning (which we wish most severely, the offence and punishment thereof upon the offender himself according to the laws in that behalf provided without imputation thereof to us, or further scandal to our profession. THAT THE ARGUMENT DRAWN fr●m the Confession of the Adversaries is strong, with a brief repetition of the principal points throughout all th●se several tracts, all of them proved by the testimony & confession ●f learned Protestants, with an humb●e Pet●tio for private toleration SECT. 6. FO● so much as our learned adversaries do affirm, ●h t (x) Academiae N●mansis respons. ad professorum ●urnoniorum Societatis jesu assertionis etc. pag. 84. saith, magnae prof●ct●●n●ustriae ●st ex ipsius a●versar●● erbis adversarium convincere. it s● gr●ate ●ee●e of woe k to co●uince the adversary from himself: And M. D. Whitaker saith accordingly, (y) M. Whitaker de Ecclesia Controu. 2. quaest 5. cap. 14. initio pa. 366. saith Decimam tertiam notam statuit Bellarminus adversariorum confessionem, firmum certè sit necesse est argumentum illad, quod hinc sumitur: etc. efficax enim erit adversariorum ipsorum contra ipsos testimonium etc. et quidem fateor veritatem etiam & suis inimicis testimonium extorquere etc. the argument must needs be strong which is taken from the confession of the adversaries, for the confession of the adversaries against themselves is effectual, and truly (saith he) I do acknowledge that the truth enforceth testimony from her enemies. And since also most gracious Sovereign) that we have in this discourse (forbearing o●r other plentiful helps) restrained ourselves to this inequality or preciseness of Method, & ●ri●ging so forth as the Prophet saith (*) Esay. 19, 2. the Egyptians against the A●g ptians, have to the more evident setting forth of the equity of this ou● most humble supplication accordingly showed even by the frequent and manifest confession of our learned adversaries. First, that we English men were above a thousand (z) Heretofore tract. 1. sect. 1. initio. years since converted by Gregory and Austin● to our now professed Catholic faith, 2 Secondly that the same faith was as yet much more ancient and long (a) Tract. 1. sect. 2. pag. 5. initio. before that time universally professed 3 Thirdly that it carrieth with it great (b) Tract. 1. sect. 2. ante & post medium & sect. 3. probabilities to have begun even in the Apostles time, & is so thereby cleared from that note of novelty, which your (¶) For my part I know not how to answer the objections of the Papists when they charge us with novelties, but truly to tell them that their abuses are new: in the Sum of the Conference before the King's Majesty, pag. 73. ante medium. Majesty most religiously seemeth to dislike in what profession soever. 4 Fourthly that the argument of true miracles is (*) Tract. 1. sect. 5. paulo post initium. strong and certain, and that our faith is confessed to have been accordingly (c) Tract. 1. sect. 5. pag. 35 and in the margin at the ma●ke * confirmed with such 5 Fiftly, that the hopeful promises of (d) Tract. 1. sect. 6. pa. 40. 41. 42. 43. & 44. salvation do appertain to it 6 Sixthly that the Roman Church being converted in t●e Apostles time did never (⁋) Heretofore tract. 1 sect. 7. & sect. 8. since make change of her religion: Since also we have by like testimony of our adversaries further showed in the 2. tract of this discourse. 1 First that the Prophets do foretell how that Christ's true Church m●st after her first increase (e) Tract. 2. c. 1 sect. 1. pag. 74. & 75 at a. b. c. d. cont●nue Catholicke and ●niversall & m●st likewise w●th gre●t and prosperous success convert (f) Heretofore tract. 2. ca● 1. s●ct. 1. pag. 74. & pag. 75. at q. many nations ●nd K●ngs of t●e Gentiles f●om paganism to the faith of Ch●ist. 2 Secondly that d●ring the first 300. years after Christ these predictions were (g) Heretofore tract. 2. cap. 1. sect. 2. initio. pag. 76. not performed by rea●on of the persecutions that as then raged 3 Thirdly that the performance of them was begun but (h) Tra. 2. c. 1. sect. 2. circa & post med. pa. 76. et 77. not accomplished during the second 300. years after Christ, and howsoever it were as then either begun or accomplished, yet was it done by our (i) Tract. 2. c. 1. sect. 3. pa. 77. 78. 79. 80. Catholic, and not their Protestant Church (4) Four●hly that after the said second 100L. years even till Luther's time, the protestants Church was so far from performing the said predictions, that during all that time and long before, it is confessed to have remained (k) Heretofore tra. 2. c. 1 sect 4. pag 81. 82. 83. invisible our Church nevertheless during all the said time converting the (l) Tract. 2. c. 1. sect. 4. pa. 81. in the margin at the mark *. and pag 83. at q. r. and 82. at n. o. p. Kings, and nations of the Gentiles 5 ●if●y that the manifest and confessed defect of the protestants Church in not performing of the said predictions, advamtageth the (m) Tra. 2. c. 1. sect. 5. ante medium pag 85. jews against them, in so much as it made their learned (n) Tra. 2. c. 1. sect. 5. paulo post med. pag. 86. at d. e. Castali● to stagger in his faith, and David (o) Tra. 2. c. 1. sect. 5. prope finem pag. 86. at f. George to revolt fr●m them to plain apostasy: Since also in the same se●ond tract we have likewise further showed from the like testimony of our learned adversary's. 1 First that Christ's true Church can never (p) Heretofore tra. 2. c. 2. sect. 1. initio pag. 91. at z. a. b. c. d. want Pastors and Doctors that these shall (q) tract. 2. c. 2. sect. 1. circa med. pag. 92 at p. q. r. always resist f l e doctrine with open reprehension: that also the true Church can never be without (r) Tra. 2. c. 2. sect. 1 paulo post medium pag. 92. at y. the administration of the Word and sacraments that (s) I●idem pag. 92. at z. the only absence of them d●th make a n●ll tie of the Church. and that (t) Ibidem prope finem pa. 93. at c. th●se notes are needful to distinguish the true Church from the false, that men careful of ●heir salvatio may know where the true Church is a d t● which company they ought to adhere: 2 Secondly that th● common in's an●●es or examples of (u) Tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 3. pag. 98. Waldo (x) Tract. 2. cap. 2. s●ct. 4. pag. 105. ●●ic iffe, (y) Tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 5. pag. 109. Huse, (*) Tracked. 2. cap. 2 sect. 10. pag. 126. 127. etc. at s ct. 11. Luther & their followers alledg●d ●●●al y●●●●r●o●mance hereof are found insuf●cient to pro●● a continuance of these prem sses, but so much as for those times in which they first begun or l●ued, and that no (*) Heretofore tra. 2. c. 2 sect. 7. pag. 115. 116. 1●7. 118. 119. & 120. sufficient example thereof during those times and sundry other ages before can be given 3 Thirdly that in steed of example in this kin● to be alleged, it is confessed to the contrary that the Protestants Church hath during all those ages, & many other before remained (z) Heretofore tract. 2. cap. 1. sect. 4. ante & circa med. pag. 83. at t.u. & pag. 82. at o. Latent and invisible, and that our Church hath nevertheless during all the same time continued (a) Tract. 2. cap. 1. sect. 4. pag. 83. at r.s. visible, reigning universally etc. 4 Fourthly (wh●ch only point is sufficient to convince our adversaries that no known example can be f●unde hereof but during the last (b) Tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 11. twenty yeared next before Luther, wh●ch are yet in the memory of this presentage, our adversaries acknowledging to the contrary, that (c) Heretofore tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 11. pag. e. the truth was at that time unknown and unheard of; and that as then (d) Vide ibidem. an universal apostasy over spread the whole face of the earth (e) Ibidem. all Churches being as the overwhelmed with more than Cimmerian darkne●. 5 Fifthly that therefore for the preservation of Christ's true Church (which is confessed (f) Heretofore tra. 2. c. 2. sect. 13. initio and in the margin there at the letter r. never to fail so much as for any one moment of time:) sundry of our learned adversaries do acknowledge that Luther tho●gh being before his first preaching against the Pope a confessed earnest Catholic, did yet nevertheless after his said preaching against the Pope not (g) Heretofore tra. 2. c. 2. sect. 13. y. & also in the margin there at the letter y. & ibidem in the margin at the letter z. erect any new Church, or become member of any other Church than before not in being but remained still a member of he same Catholic or Popish Church without (*) Heretofore tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 13. b. c. departing from it, & so withal, that the Popish Church, (h) Tra. 2. cap. 2. sect 13. versus finem & tra. 1. s●ct. 6. post medium pag 40 e. f. is the Church of God, and the religion thereof sufficient to (⁋) Tract. 1. sect 6. versus finem pag. 40. at m.n. Salvation: All whi●h premises ha●e been heretofore proved from the frequent ●●fess●on of our learned adversaries. Since al●● we for our ●arts do hereby most seriously and as ●n the presence of God, profess (according to your highness gra e and memorable (i) Basilicon doron. in praefat. provision to content ourselves soberly and qu●e●ly with our own opinions, not resisting authority, but to p●sess●ur s●●les in peace etc. and are accordingly in good hope that there will appear to your Maieistie just cause to move your highness (in your Princely wisdom) so much the rather to observe towards us, this worthy and kingly saying (k) Ibidem. that it can no ways become to pronounce so ●gh be sentence in so old a controversy: By how much it is by so many confessed premises made evident, that our doctrine is undoubtedly more old than was any question of that other doctrine) or in comparison rather innovation) whereto your Majesty vouchsafed this gracious favour. Since lastly the objection of disloyalty urged against us by our adversaries, is retorted (l) Heretofore tract. 3. sect. 2. fully upon themselves, & we found (m) Heretofore tract. 3. sect. 3. & 4. & 5. to deserve at the least) as well as they, some part of that princely favour, which they (without our repining thereat) in greater measure do enjoy, therefore all prostrate before your royal Majesty, we do most humbly pray, even by our holy communion of faith with her whose soul is now blessed in heaven, & her memory upon the earth to your Majesty most dear and to us reverend, and by the most humble intercession of our allegiance, and ever resolved loyalty, that your Highness would of your princely clemency grant us so much favour, as the undoubted example of all former and present times, and the confessed Doctrine both of Fathers and Protestants, (⁋) Hereof M. Covell in his examination etc. pag. 199. post med. saith, Concerning the jews, a Prince may lawfully permit them to dwell in his kingdom etc. the laws of the Emperors have permitted the like, and some of the fathers, but specially S. Austin was so favourable to them, that he allegeth several reasons for the doing of it etc. And Peter Martyr in his Common places in English, part. 2. pag. 329. b. fine, affirmeth likewise that they may be tolerated among Christians, & have also Synagogues etc. But it is not lawful to grant unto Turks relig●ous assemblies. affordeth even to the misbelieving jews, vouchsafeing so, (for our humble thoughts presume no higher) but that we might adore (*) Act. 3, 13. the God of our Fa●●ers, with our private freedom and liberty of conscience The integrity of our ancient Catholic faith, and confessed current of so many former ages, spent in profession thereof from the time of our Country's fi●st conversion, with all honour to your majesties most noble ancestors, can in our opinion no less than claim it. The distressed and miserable condition of so many your Catholic and Loyal subjects altogether needeth it: our long cont●nued hopes of your princely clemency, with cheerful expectation of milder times to ensue under your Highness' happy Reign, presume with all h●mble respect, to demand it. The many yet standing monuments of sacred Churche● & Colleges, erected by our Catholic ancestors for the one●y profession of our fa th', & now since impropriated to our adversaries, make (in their kind most religious and mournful intercession for it. The doctrine of so many learned Protestants, who) teach (n) M. Hayward in his answer to R. Dolman dedicated to your Majesty cap. 9 paulo post medium s●ith, all the chief writers of our age are now reduced to the former opinion affirming with Tertulli●n, Lactantiu●, Cassiodorus, Ios●phus, Bernard, & others that religion must be persuaded not enforced: tindal in the Acts & Monuments pag. 1338. a. initio, saith, the new Testament of Christ will not suffer any law of compulsion but only of council and exhortation. And ibidem pa. 1337. b. post medium. And ibidem pag. 1152. b. fine. Hawks saith to Bishop Boner, where prove you that Christ or his Apostles did kill any man for his faith: also jacobus Acontius stratagematu●● satanae libri octo, ●iscourcing at large of this point saith, consequens ergo est manner quidem suo in vigore vete●●m legem aut certè renouar●●si ●ilem poss●, n●que t●men ●ermitti haereticorum supplicia quia videlicet ali● sit apostatae, ●lia haer●tici c●●s● (pag. 158. initio.) And further, Dominus profecto definitè decl●●uit magistratus non esse idon●os dogmatum judices, interdixitque illis talis jurisdictionis usu ●mni (pag. 160. circ● med.) and pag. 161. circa med. he farther saith hereof, haec quidem judiciorum gen●r●●d magistratum non pertinent, sed ad solum Dei filium, qui in nouissi●o die per ange●os s●os seperatu●●s sittest itico zizania, with much more against all punishment f●r Christian religion. And Vrbanus Regius i● loc. theolog fol. 117. c. ●a●th hereof, Christianorum Spiritus combu●it tantum igne ch●rit●tis & ●. Deus non docet combur●re e●●ant●s oviculas, sed Ezechi●l, 34. sanare infirmas, ma●il●t●s pascere etc. And Luther in ass●rtionibus art. 33. de non comburendis haereticis, ma●eth a special discourse in proof thereof. And Castalio in his Preface upon the Bible to K. Edward the six●e affirmeth the same doctrine; & so likewise d●th Coelius Secundus Curio in lib●o de amplitudine regni Dei lib. 2. pag. 216. And franciscus' Goma●us in speculo v●rae Eccl●siae p●g. 227. & 229. And M. Marbecke in his Common places pag. 483. & 484. that no man ought to be compelled or suffer for his faith, prescribeth it: The graver judgement of our forenamed learned adversaries who acknowledge our Catholic Church to be a true (1) See heretofore pa 4●. e. f ●h. Church, and o●r religion for sufficient (2) Heretofore pag. 40 at m.n. to salvation maketh ●ost clearly f●r it. The policy of the time and succesfu l event, upon like examples (3) See in Luc. ●siander ●●ep●tom hist. eccl. centu. 16. sundry example's of tolloration as namely in France, pa. 1135. fine. & 1136. initio. & pag. 816. & 713 & 750. & 735 fine. & 718. And in Liuon●a p●g 950. initio, and in Ge●m ●ie pag. 629. & 630. & pag. 598. An● of G●●manie see farther the Prot●stant writer Dresserus in pa●te secunda Millen●rij texti, w●ere he saith, (pag. 659 initio.) Anno 52. pax profitentibus Augustan●m Confessionem perp●tua conc●ss●●st etc. And (pag. 661. ante medium) he● further sai●●, it was agreed v●●●, ea quidem lege & conditione ut Pontificij qui ante in sectati religionem Evangelicam er●●●, ins●ctari desisterent, & contra, Evang●lici qui religonem Pontificiam abro●arant de●●●●s à tali abrogatione abstinerent, caveretque utraque pars ne in suis dominijs quenquam ad iu●ae religionis professionem cogat, aut à religione quam prof●tetur contra ipsius conscienti●m ●voc●t ●ut dep●llat, And pag. 666. ante med. he saith (in allowance thereof) ne● hic metuo eorum●●e ●●hensionem qui putant non nisi unam religionem esse ferandan etc. And M. D. ●●lke lib. d●s●ccessione Ecclesiastica etc. pag. 285. & 286. giveth very many examples of toleration gruen by Catholic Magistrates to Protestants: in so much as he doubteth not to say further: H●ip●ni●rum Rex unicus est inter omnes Europae reges tam alienus à nobis, ut nec foveat, nec p●l●m coire ecclesias permittat in suis ditionibus ibid. pag. 285. fine. And see further Ch●traeus in his Chron. An 93.94. & 95. pag. 74. & 75. & 76. concerning toleration in the kingdom of Suecia, and concerning like toleration in France, see l. edit du roy sur la Pacification des troubles destroy ●●me. Anno 1576. And see likewise the King's edict published in Paris, 25. February 1599 ungiu'd and printed Anno 1599 And see the like example of toleration in Helvetia in the book entitled, Centuri● Epistol●●um theologicarum Epist. 39 Martini Buceri pag. 123. and 1.4. whereunto might be added the known example of like toleration in Poland. had of toleration in other countries strongly persuadeth it And (above all the general care of Christian profession, and long desired peace of so many Christian kingdom, disturbed (to the Turks great advancement (o) concerning countries which the Turk hath gotten by our dissension, for former times read the oration of the French Ambassador in M. Sleydanes Commentaries in English, lib. 14. fol. 187. a. b. And M. D. Humphrey in jesuitismi part. 2. rat. 3. pag. 286. And for latter times see Chitraeus his Chronicon. Ann● 1593. & 1594. And see the treatise entitled (ad Principes populumque Christianum de Bello adversus Turcas gerendo etc. Guilielmi Brus●ij concilium Lipsiae. 1595. & hindrance (p) M. Fox in his Acts and Monuments Printed. 1576 in his Alphabetical table at the word discord showeth (with particular references thereof to his book) that discord brought the Turk into Hungary 727. 695. And giveth him st est that a●st Christendom, 712. 998. spoileth Germany 317. & Christendom, 314. of Christians) with intestive division, for the appeasing and reconcileing whereof (to the full enabling of a most holy and needful (4) Concerning the important necessity hereof read the oration m●de by Dress●●us a learned Protest●nt entitled de bello Turcico oratio mathae● Dressers in Accademia ●●●sica printed 1598. And s●e the treatise entitled the Ottoman of Lazaro Soranzo published in english by M. Abr. Hartwell An. 1603. in his epist. dedicat. to the L. Archbish. of C●nt●rbury ●irca m●d ●●m. & see in the treatise part. 3. c. 33. fol. 106. b. 107. a. undertaken war against that hateful monster to ●od & man, whose proceed Luther and some other Protestants have over indisretely (if not favoured yet (5) hereof see heretofore tra. 2. c. 2. sect. 10. initio, pag 127. furthered, your Majesty being in happy league with them all, is therefore and otherwise the most worthy honourable and able instrument, most instantly urgeth & requireth it. CONCERNING THE EVIDENT INCERtainety & disagreement of Protestants in their faith and the reason & particular examples thereof with a like humble Petition thereupon for disputation. SECT. 7. AND now lastly, for so much as our learned adversaries do hold. 1 First that concerning matter of faith, they (q) M. W llet in his Synopsis pag. 38. initio saith, the Scripture is not one of the means, but the sole, whole, & only means to work faith. are to believe nothing for certain but the holy Scriptures only 2 Secondly that (r) M. D. Raynolds in his Conference with Harte. pag 68 ante medium. it is not the show but the sense of the words (of Scripture) that must decide controversies: and that herein the Scripture doth not (*) M. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical Policy lib. 2. pag. 116. paulo ante medium saith the Scripture could not teach us the things that are of God, unless we did credit men who have taught us, that the word● of Scripture do signify those things. instruct them of itself, but only by certain (s) M.D. Whitaker de Sacra Scriptura. pag. 521. circa medium. saith, nam quando Scriptura non habet vivam vocem quam audiamus, utenuum est quibusdam medijs, quibus in vestigamus quid sit ● nsus, quae mens Scripturarum And in his book de Ecclesi● contra Bellarminum controu. 2. quaest. 4. pag. 221. ante med. demanding of us if we affirm the Church to interpret the Scripture without means saith Si sine medijs dixerunt est & Anabaptisticum. means on their behalf to be observed. 3 Thirdly that these means are affirmed to be their (t) M. D. Raynolds in his conference pag. 83. 84. 92. 98. 99 and M. Whitaker de Sacra Scriptura. pag. 521. 522. 523. reeding thereof, their conf●rences of places, their weighing of the circumstances of the text, their skill in the tongues, their diligence, prayer: and such like, in which if they err, they do also thereby err in the r understanding of the Scriptures. 4 Fourthly that these being actions on their behalf are but human endeavours & such wherein every man (without extraordinary privilege from God) is subject to (u) Lubbertus de Principijs Christian. dog. pag. 563. initio saith of the le●r●●d interpreters, Hos omnes ut interpretando errare post ostendimus, ita etiam in iudicando errare posse asserimus. And Hierome Zanchius de Sacra Scriptura pag. 411. fine & 412. initio saith of them, cum judicio eos audiamus p●rsu si eos esse homines, & potu●ss● ac post errare. error oversight & man's infirmity (all his prayer and possible diligence notwithstanding.) 5 Fifthly that in full demonstration hereof, aswell Martin (x) M. Bridge in his defence o● the Government etc. pag. 559. & M. Perkines in his four treatises tract. How to apply God's word etc. s●ct. 10. initi●. Luther, (whom themselves acknowledge to be (y) Apolog. Angl. part. 4. c 4.2. a man sent of God to lighten the world (z) F●x● in his Acts & Monuments pag. 416. a. initio. the H●lias conductor and chariot of Israel whose calling they think (a) Aretius' Loc. common. loc. 63. pag. 198. circa medium. And Danaeus in Isagog. Christian. part. 4. lib. 2. pag. 36. initio. extraordinary and specially (b) The book entitled Antic●r●stus, sive Prognostic. finis mundi pag. 12. 13. & 86. fine. And Schluse burg. in Cai●● Haeret. lib. 13 & vit. pag. 314 and 316 fine. foreshowed the Scriptures: & since foretold in like manner, by (c) Act. M●n. pag. 399. b. initio. and 〈◊〉 in Ap●ca●. pag. 324. s●ndry Prophecy, that went of him himself being furthermore affirmed to be (d) ●leydane in Engli●●. 101. 222. b. paulo post medium. and see the margin there. a Prophet, and most assured and (e) Luther adversus falso nominatum Ecclesiasticum statum saith, scire vos volo quod in posterum non amplius vos hoc honore dignabor, ut sinam vel vos vel ipsos angelos de coelo, de mea doctrina judicare etc. nec volo meam doctrinam à quoquam judicari, atque adeò ne ab angelis quidem: cum enim certus de●ea sim, per eam quoque & vester & angelorum judex esse volo. certain of this doctrine, and likewise (f) M. Whitguift in his defence of the answer to the admonition pag. 201 circa med. And M. Spark in his answer to M. john d' Albines pag. 107. initio. Calvine, (g) M. D. Sutclyffe and D. Saravia have written whole treatises hereof against Beza. Beza, (h) In M. Whitguifts defence etc. pag. 522. initio M. Cartwright saith: Bucer though otherwise very learned hath gross absurdities. Bucer etc. and sundry of the (i) M.D. Fulke in his answer to a counterfeit Catholic pag. 35. & 87. & Gomarus in speculo verae Ecclesiae Christi. pa. 93. &. 94 ancient Fathers: and General (k) M. Fulke ibidem pag. 89. & 90. and M. Willet in his Synopsis pag. 92. Counsels are accordingly affirmed to have erred notwithstanding all their prayer and possible diligence in conferring the Scriptures: As also it is further taught that even (l) M. Fulke ubi supra pag. 86. fine. the whole Church militant may err altogether as every part thereof. These being the confessed grounds and principles of our adversaries doctrine, they do appear to be no other, but as it were) linked chains or naked convections of unavoidable incertainetie, and being such, can therefore afford to our adversaries not assured knowledge or certainty of faith (⁋) M. Whitaker de Ecclesia contra Bellarminum controu. 2. quaest. 4. pag. 221. paulo post. med. saith hereof, qualia illa media sunt, talem ipsam interpretationem este necesse est, at media interpretandi loca obscura sunt incerta, dubia, & ambigua, ergo fieri non potest quin & ipsa etiam interpretatio incerta sit, si incerta, tunc esse potest falsa: etc. But according to the nature of the●se●ues a necessary doubtfulness and incertainty of opinion: for albeit that the Scriptures be in themselves certain infallible, and free from error, yet what can this pretence thereof avail to free our adversaries from incertainty, seeing it is evident & by them confessed that the Scriptures instruct them not otherwise, them by the foresaid means on their behalf to be observed, & that their observation of those means is but humane & subject to error, and that accordingly Luther & many other (notwithstanding all their diligent and careful observation of the said means) have grievousely erred even in those points whereof they thought themselves so clearly certain, that sundry of them have not doubted to testify the same with their blood, and yet indeed were therein (as our adversaries confess) but incertain and deceived as also of others who have thought themselves no less certain, some have nevertheless afterwards altered their opinions, as did Melancthon, and Bucer, concerning the real presence, and others who as yet continue in their sundry opinions certainly persuaded, are notwithstanding daily in many things contradicted by the many (*) To omit the over many books of this kind published by English Protestant's one against another: jodocus Coccius in his Thesaurus etc. printed 1569 tom. 1. pag. 1068. 1069. 1070. 1077. 1078. 1089. & 1090. numbereth up almost two hundredth several books written and published by foreign Protestants one against another, reciting withal in particular, the special name or title of every of the said books their several volume and year of print. And concerning further testimony of the Protestants many book●s written one against another: see Castalio alleged hereafter in this tract & sect p. and Osiander in epitome. etc. centur. 16. pa. 822. 823. 824. usque pag. 829. & vide ibidem pag. 863 & 712. & 713 volumes & public writings of their own learned brethren, who in many chief points are as certainly & fully resolved in their judgement to the contrary: the over many & known particular (m) First, as Concerning the real presence of Christ's body in the Sacrament to the bodily mouth, it is affirmed by Luther and the Lutherans: and contradicted for Po●●sh by Calvine and his followers. 2 Secondly, the real presence not only of the efficacy of Christ's body but also of the body itself after a wonderful and incomprehensible manner to the mouth of faith, is affirmed by Caluin. Institut. lib. 4. cap. 17. sect. 7. & 10. & 32. By M. rider in his friendly Caveat etc. the third leaf a. circa med. By M.D. Whitaker contra Duraeum pag. 169. the confession of Belgia in the English Harmony pag. 431. and by M. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical Policy lib. 5. sect. 67. pa. 174. circa medium and pag. 177. post medium & vide apolog. modest. ad acta conventus quindecim theologorum torgae nuper habit. etc. pag. 19 & pag. 13. initio. & 23. & 47. And Contradicted as inclining to Popery (to omit Oecolampadius and Suinglius) by Peter Martyr in his epistle annexed to his Common places in English pag. 170. b. epist. 25. & ibid. pag. 98. a. & pag. 108. a. By Aretius' sermon. 3. de caena, and by our English Puritans in their Christian letter to M. R. Hooker pag. 35. paulo post med, & by Lodovicus Alemanus Italus in positionibus apud Lugdunenses editis Anno 1566. who said hereof, neque etiam per fidem sen incomprehensibili modo ut vocant, quia hoc totum imaginarium & repugnat apertissime Dei verbo, of whose opinion see further Beza epist. 5. 3 thirdly, that Sacraments do not only signify but also confer, grace is affirmed by Osiander in Enchirid. controversiarum quas Augustinae Confess. theol. habeat cum Caluianu. pag. 272. post. med. By jacobus Andraeas in epitome. colloquij Montis belgar pag. 58. prope initium & pag. 42. initio By M.D. Bilson in his true difference between etc. part 4. pag. 539. ante med. & 592. post medium. & 368. post med. By M. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical Policy lib. 5. sect. 57 pag. 127. & 128. And by M.D. Whitaker conta Duraeum lib. 8. pag. 662. paulo ante med. & 664. post med. And Contradicted for Popish by M. W●llet in his Synopsis pag. 415. ante med. and by M. Fulke against Purgatory pag. 35. and many others: 4 Fourthly, the sufficiency of Christ's corporal death upon the Cross, without his suffering of further pains in soul etc. is affirmed by M. B●●son in his treatise entitled the full redemption of mankind by the blood and death of Christ, in his Preface to the Christian Reader. post med. and by many others. And Contradicted for Popish by Calvine justitut. lib. 2. cap. 16. sect. 10. And by M. Willet in his Synopsis printed 1600. pag. 985. ante med. and pag. 987. initio and many others. 5 Fifthly, that Christ after his corporal death did descend in soul into Hell is affirmed by M.D. Hill in his special treatise of that title printed 1592. and by Aretius Apinus, M. Nowell, and Melancthon alleged by D. Hill ubi supra fol. 33. & 44. and Contradicted for Popish by M. Carelile in his book that Christ descended not into Hell: By Beza in act. 2. By Bucer in Matth. 26. and many others. 6 sixtly, that the Church must continue visible is affirmed by Melancthon & sundry others alleged heretofore tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 1. pag. 93. at d. and pag. 94. at e. f. g. in the margin there at the letters d. e. f. and Contradicted for Popish by M.D. Fulke in the Tower disput. with Edm. Camp. the second days conference, by M. Willet in his Synopsis, pag. 48. circa med. and many others. 7 Seventhly, as concerning the necessity of good works to salvation it is affirmed by M. Willet in his Tetrastilon Papismi pag. 90. fine, by M. Fulke against the Rhemish Testament in 2. Petr. 2. sect. 3. fol. 444. a post med. and by M. Whitaker against M. Reynolds pag. 350 post. med. and Contradicted for new Papistry as pornitious as the old, by Illiricus in praefat. ad Rom. & many others: whereof see Colloquium Altenburgense fol. 210. a. & 231. b. & 324. a. & 382. b. fine, & acta colloquij Aldeburgensis pag. 5. & 7. & 151. initio. 8 eightly concerning evangelical councils viz. that a man may do more than he is commanded, is affirmed for most clear by M. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical policy lib. 3. sect. 8. pag. 140. post med. and lib. 2. pag. 103. & 122. post med. by D. Covell in his defence of M. Hooker Art. 8 pag. 49. 50. 51. 52. by Luther in assertionibus art. 30. and others: and Contradicted for Popish by M. Willet in his meditations upon the 122. Psalm pag. 91 post. med. by M. Parkins in his Reformed Catholic pag. 241. and many others. 9 Ninethly, As concerning the doctrine of universality of grace, and that Christ died for all, it is affirmed by Suinglius in libro Epistolarum Oecolampadij & Suinglij lib. 1. pag. 274. circa med. by Hemingius Enchirid. clas. 3. pag. 220. 221. & lib. de vniuersaligrā. by Hiperius in method. theolog. lib. 2. pag. 431. 435. 436. By Suecanus in Method. descript. pag. 430. by M. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical Policy, lib. 5. pag. 104. By Bullinger upon the Apocalipes in English fol. 79. b. initio. By M. Gibbeus in his questions upon Genesis pag. 108. circa med. By M. Smyth in his treatise of Prayer in general for all mankind etc. & (besides the Lutherans) by very many other learned Calvinists alleged by Huberus in his Theses. etc. pag. 159. and 163. and 164. and 166. and 167. and 168. and Contradicted for Popish by M. Willet in his Synopsis of Anno 1600. pag. 789. circa med. and 808. post initium. and by Beza, calvin, Knox, etc. in whole treatises. 10 tenthly, that God doth permit or suffer sin, and not will & decree the same is affirmed by jacobus Andraeas in epitome. colliqu. Montisbelgar pag. 47. 49. and 53. by Hemingius lib. de universali gran. and all the Lutherans, and (of the Calvinists) by Amandus Polanus in Partition. theolog. lib. 1. pag. 75. 76. and 10. 11. and 12. By Snecaenus in Methodic. descript pag. 621. 622. etc. 645. 650. By Bullinger in his Decades Englished pag. 492. 493. 494. By Castalio in lib. ad Caluinum de predestinate. By Melancthon in loc. common. de causa peccati & contingent. & in libro de council. theolog. part. 2. pag. 111. and 112. By M. Gibbens in his questions upon Genesis pag. 108. circa med. And Contradicted for Popish by Calvine. Institut. lib. 2. cap. 4. sect. 3. & 4. & 5. & lib. 1. cap. 18. sect. 1. and lib. 3. cap. 23. sect. 8. By D. Baro in his treatise of God's providence cap. 4. paulo ante med. By Aretius Loc. common. loc. 40. de induratione pag. 129 By M. W●llet in his Synopsis pag. 562. fine 563. ante medum. & many others. 11 Eleaventhly, that men are not certain of their election, and that he who is once in state of grace may finally fall, is affirmed by their public confessions cited in the Harmony etc. pag. 224. post medium. & 80. paulo ante med. & 230. post. med. and 233. fine. By Chemnitius examen part. 2. pag. 193. a post med. & part. 1. pag. 190. b. initio. By Musculus loc. comun pag. 29. circa med. By Lobechius in disput. theolog. pag. 317. 318. By Haffenrefferus in loc. theolog. etc. pag. 184. 188. and 331. By Rungius in disput. etc. ex epist. ad Corinth. part. 1. thest. 5. By Cefnerus in disput. pro libro concord. pag. 150. 156. 157. 650. By jacobus Andraeas in epitome colloqu. Montisbelgar pag. 47. 61. and Contradicted for Popish by M. Parkins in his Reformed Catholic pag. 39 and 55. By Calvine, Beza etc. 12 twelfthly, that in case of divorce upon adultery the Innocent party may not many again, was some few years since preached openly at Paul's Cross by D. Dove, & since defended publicly in the University by M.D. Howson in tertia Thesi printed Anno 1602. & is the constant doctrine of many others. And is yet Contradicted for popish by M. Fulke against the Rhemish testament fol. 38. a circa med. & many others. 13 Thirteenthly, that to children of the faithful dying unbaptized salvation is not promised affirmed by Vrbanus Rhegius in 1. part. operum in Catechismo minore fol. 105. By Hoffman in Commentar. de poenitentia lib. 3. c. 4. fol. 229. a. b By Sarcerius in loc. common. fol. 238. 239. 240. By the confession of Auspurg. in the Harmony pag. 403. fine. and by M. Bilson (now Bishop of Winchester) in his true difference etc. part. 4. pag. 368. ante med. and 369. aunt med. And Contradicted for popi●● vulgarly by Beza, Calvine etc. 14 Fourteen, free-will is affirmed by sundry Protestants mentioned in M. Fox his Acts and Monuments pag. 1533. b. paulo post med. and pag. 1605. b. fine. also by Snecanus and Hemingius, witness hereof M. Willet in his Synopsis printed anno 1600. pag. 808. post initium and 810. post initium, and by sundry others: and is Contradicted for popish by Calvine, Beza etc. 15 Fifteenthlie, that in regard of Christ's Passion and promise, our good works proceeding from faith, are mentorious or deserving, affirmed by their public confessions in the Harmony etc. pag. 495. ante medium. & pag. 273. circa med. By Spangeburg. in Margarit. theol. pag. 48. and 50. post med. By Melancthon loc. common. etc. de bonus operibus circa med. and see M. Hooker lib. 5. Eccles. policy sect. 72. pag. 208. fine. Contradicted for popish by Calvine Beza etc. 16 Sixteenthly, temporal punishment reserved by God in justice for sin remitted, is affirmed by john Knox in his answer against the adversaries of God's Predestination, pag. 215. 216. 217. By Gasper Olevianus in S●a●bolum pag. 8. ante med. and by the public confessions of Protestants in the Harmony etc. pag. 229. paulo ante med. and pag. 235. circa & post medium. and 508. initio. Contradicted as inclining to Purgatory by M. Willet in his Synopsis pag. 514. By Calvine, Beza etc. 17 Seaventeenthly, (were this place capable thereof) we could allege the other points of our Catholic faith defended in like manner from the Scriptures by sundry of our learned adversaries: as namely Vowed Chastity (By Augustine Marloret in 1. Tim. cap. 5. vers. 11. pag. 375. a fine. By M. R. Alison in his confutation of Brownisme pag. 71. whereof see heretofore tract. 1. sect. 4. example 9 pag. 30. in the margin at 14. Intercession of saints, by Latimer act. mon. pag. 1312. a. initio. Art. 6. & pag. 1315. a. paulo ante medium, and by Oecolampadius ad orationem 1. Chrisostomi de Inuentio & maxim Martiribus. Lymbus Patrum (By john Lascicius in the book entitled de russorum muscovitarum & tartarorum religione pag. 122. and. 123. and by Oecolampadius in libro episiolarum Suinglij, & Oecolampadij lib. 1. pag. 19 and by Suinglius ibidem lib. 3. pag. 560. and 561.) Prayer for the dead by Luther and Vrbanus Rhegius, teste Vrbano Rhegio in prima part operum in formula cante loquendi cap. de sanctorum culta: & vide Vrbanum Rhegium in loc common. cap. 19 and 18. and by W●lliam Thorpe act. mon. pag. 149. a. paulo post initium. Purgatory: (By Luther tom. 1. W●tteberg. an. 1545. in resolute de indulgentijs conclus. 15. fol. 112. a. prope finem, And in disputatione Lipsica cum Echt. and by Latimer act. mon. Pag. 1313. a paulo ante med. and b. ante med. and pag. 1315. b. paulo ante med. The sacrifice of the new Testament according to the order of Melchisadech. (By Andraeas' Christovius in libro de opificio missae lib. 1. pag. 28. paulo post medium, and 119. paulo ante medium, and 51. post med. and 58. paulo post med. and 102. aunt med. and 171. and see M. jewel in his reply pag. 7. initio) Seven Sacraments (By the Protestant Divines assembled in the Conference of Lipsia, teste Illirico in adhortatione ad constantiam in agnita Christi religione etc. paulo post initium. And by the Protestant Divines assembled in the Conference at Ratisbone anno 1541. whereof Bucer in acts colloquij Ratisb. saith, Protestants non gravatim admiserunt septem sacram●nta: And so likewise throughout (almost) all other Controversies: whereunto we could likewise add aswell tother known different opinions in particular between Protestants and Puritans: and the testimony at large of Schluss-lburg. a prime protestant, who in his theologia Caluinistarum (in his Catalogue. praecipuorum doctrinae capitum etc. placed there before in the beginning of his book) reciteth in particular three and thirty several points of doctrine in question between the Lutheraines whom he defendeth, and the Calvinists against whom he there writeth at large in every of the said questions As also Luke Osiander a learned Protestant who of late writ a special treatrize hereof entitled, Enchiridion contro versiarum, quas Augustinae Confessionis theolog● habent cum Caluinianis etc. printed Tubingae Anno 1603. And all this defended of either part upon pretended certainty from the Scriptures. examples whereof even in the sundry Articles of our Catholic faith defended (and that most earnestly) against our learned adversaries by sundry of their own no less learned brethren, and all this by either party upon pretended certainty from the Scriptures as so evident & confessed that Nicolaus Gallus superintendant at Ratisbone complaineth thereat saying (n) Nicholaus Gallus in thesibus hipoth●sebus etc. & vide ibidem fol. vlt. non sunt leaves etc. the dissensions that are amongst us are not light nor of light matters, but of the chief articles of Christian Doctrine, of the law and the Gospel, of justification, and good works, of the Sacraments, and the use of ceremonies etc. as also Seluecerus signifieth his like grief saying (o) Seluecerus in 3. part. Comentar in Psalmos in Psa. 131. concerning the public discord in the Church, their is no need to ask etc. amongst us who glory to have the true doctrine of the Gospel, disagrements are moved, concerning things indifferent, good works, our justice b●fore God, free-will, the presence and participation of Christ's body in the s●pper, the humanity of Christ, the propriety of his humane nature, his ascension and sitting upon the right hand of God, the ubiquity and other matters. These things being thus, how now can our adversaries avoid (in these straits) the dangerous sequel of their incertainty, and ignorance, in faith and religion: for whereas the learned Protestants hold that (2) M. Bilson in his perpetual government etc. pag. 372. initio. to have no judge for the en●ing of (their) ecclesiastical contentions were the utter subversion of all peace affirming thereupon (3) M. Bilson ibidem pag. 370. post medium. Synods to be an external judicial means to discern error and (4) M Bilson ibidem pag. 374. circa medium. the surest means to decide doubts, and that (*) M. D Covel in his modest examination etc. pag. 110. ante medium. if Synods want, the Church neither at any time was, nor indeed can safely be without tempests themselves are yet (upon unanswerable and just (5) Conradus Schlusselburg. in catal. haereticorum lib. 13. & vlt. pag. 864. post medium saith, Hoc nobis potissimum considerandum videtur, num hoc tempore inter exterarum ecclesiarum theologos & nostros ulla sinodus indici & cogi possit: quis onim nostrum sibi arrogabit ut locum constituat, diem dicat, variarum nationum theologos evocet etc. jan vero in ipsa synodo quis praesidebit etc. porro quis judex erit inter li●egantes? etc. And see the Protestant auctor of the book entitled, Laconici Antisturmij Sp●gia adversus Lambertum Danaeum pag. 44. five where it is said, magna est stultitia provocare ad universalem sinodum quae institui non potest, sicut ex supradictis manifestum est. And whereas Master Whitaker lib. ●e concilijs pag. 56. circa medium, truly teacheth that without authority no Council can be assembled: who now shall have this auctorttie to compel so many Christian Protestant Princes so variably different in religion and amongst whom is no subordination to cause the divines of their several nations to assemble themselves to a council? reasons by them signified) in utter despair to have any council assembled by the divines of their several Churches and nations. therefore their foresaid ignorance or incertainty (all imaginary help to the contrary by councils notwithstanding) it is still to them so evident and unavoidable, that their Castalio (*) See heretofore tract. 2. c. 1. sec. 5. at this mark * a very learned Caluinist saith concerning their reformed Church: Profecto si verum fatere volumus, etc. (p) Sebastian Castalio in pretat. Bibl. truly if we will confess the truth, this our age is as yet drowned in extreme darkness and ignorance, a most assured proof whereof are these so grievous, so obstinate and so pernicious dissensions etc. so great a number of books every day set out, so far differing one from another etc. if the day of the most clear truth shined unto us, we would never lighten so many darksome and obscure candles of books & writings, and therefore (saith he) (q) Castalio ibidem. Crassa Crassa (inquam seculum tenet ignorantia. And for so much as there is no certain way in his opinion to find out the truth, he concludeth saying (r) Castalio ubi supra. expectemus justi judicis sententiam etc. Let us attend the sentence of the just judge and suffer the Cockle until the time of Harvest etc. Lest perhaps we pluck up the good corn. As also our other adversaries do (in regard of this confessed incertainety) reduce all grounds and judgements whatsoever of faith, unto private (*) Hereof see heretofore tract. 2. cap. 1. sect. 1. & in the margin at the letters p. q. examination, alleged (s) Lubbertus de principijs Christian. dog. pag. 562. & 563. And M. Bilson in his true difference part. 2. pag. 353. And see Assertiones theologic. de Sacram. Caenae dom. etc. printed Argentorati. Anno 1564. pag. 1. in defence thereof that we are, (t) 1. joh. 4, 1. to try the Spirits if they be of God: and to (u) 1. thessal 5, 21. prove all things and hold that which is good: Whereat we now take hold, and charging our adversaries with their own rule, do thereupon provoke them to open and equal trial of disputation, the which we for our parts could wish to be proceeding, with observation of such indifferent & reasonable conditions, as are by Mr. Hooker in his discourse hereof against the Puritans specially (x) Hereof see M. hooker's preface set before his books of the laws of ecclesiastical policy, sect. 5. and pag. 25. post medium. & 26. aunt medium. prescribed, or as were (y) Hereof see acta colloquij Ratisbonensis, printed Monachij, 1602. pa. 4. And see colloquium Ratisbonae habitum, printed Lovingae, 1602. pag. 9 10. 11. agreed upon, in the late conference at Ratisbone: for the obtaining whereof we presume hereby to become most humble and earnest petitioners to your Majesty. The foresaid evident and necessary incertainety of our adversaries judgements in doctrine, may well seem to need it: The weight and consequence of the cause being no less than matter of faith and religion) deserveth it: our adversaries former rule of reducing all things to examination and trial appointeth it: our earnest desire of their conversion thirsteth greatly after it: Their full persuasion of our pretended erring, and like charitable care of our reformation, should in all reason be no less willing of it. The several examples of the s●me course heretofore observed and practised in sundry nations and by our very adversaries (z) Hereof see Mathias Ho in his Tractat. duo quorum prior de disputationibus theologicis etc. in praefat. prescribed do as it wear lead to it. The venerable and confessed antiquity of our Catholic faith, established but never hitherto condemned in general council, (and therefore unworthy to be as now rejected without some indifferency of trial) presumeth very confidently to obtain it. And lastly your highness mature and learned judgement, able to moderate and censure the same, maketh us so much the rather to become most humbly desirous and earnest for it. The Almighty God who hath so powrablie preserved your majesties most royal person from so many dangers past, and no less graciously reserved it to accomplish the blessings of our happy times and nation, conserve it ever accordingly with all worldly felicity in this life and heavenly in the next. GOD SAVE THE KING.