ACADEMIA OXONIENSIS    

THE REASONS WHICH DOCTOR HILL HATH BROUGHT, FOR THE upholding of Papistry, which is falsely termed the Catholic Religion: Unmasked, and showed to be very weak, and upon examination most insufficient for that purpose: By GEORGE ABBOT Doctor of Divinity & Deane of the Cathedral Church in Winchester.  
The first Part.  Joh. 9 4. 
The night cometh when no man can work.  Jer. 51. 6. 
Flee out of the mids of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not destroyed in her iniquity.  
AT OXFORD, Printed by JOSEPH BARNES, & are to be sold in Paul's Churchyard at the sign of the Crown by Simon Waterson. 1604.   

  

TO THE RIGHT HONOURABLE Thomas Baron of Buckhurst Knight of the Honourable Order of the Garter, L. High Treasurer of England, one of the LL of his majesties most Honourable Privy Council, and Chancellor of the University of Oxford, my very especial good Lord.  
RIGHT Honourable, it is not unknown unto your Lordship that in the days of our late most blessed Sovereign of famous memory, some unnatural English, who as Fugitives had departed their Country, did maliciously and slanderously write against our stare Ecclesiastical and Civil, and oftentimes against those who governed both the one & the other. And albeit the pretence whereof they did make show to the world, was only the restoring of the Roman Religion, yet men of deeper judgement could not be ignorant, that they had a purpose to prepare their credulous Scholars for a day of alteration otherwise; and in the mean while to make them discontented with the present times, which they ceased not to lad with all calumniations, and wicked imputations whatsoever. Amongst this number was and is a certain audacious person, who termeth himself Doctor Hill: and being a man of no more than a competent learning, but yet of a very bold spirit, hath traced the steps of other his fellows which went before him. For he principally maketh show to yield Reasons, why Popery should be the true faith of Christ, and for that purpose heapeth up a many of weak and worn-out Arguments: but toward the middle of his book falleth into other points, as if this Kingdom our Country, were a sink of wickedness beyond all the nations of the earth, and therefore detestable to God and good men. In respect of which unsufferable defamations, it was held most fit that this Treatise should receive an Answer: but especially for the points of Papistry broached and urged therein, which may beguile the hearts of the simple, or such who are not indifferently affected. Having therefore at the entreaty of others who wish the flourishing of true godliness, traveiled somewhat in this Argument, for the better settling of such as will take pains to read or hear, it now remaineth that I should recommend the protection thereof, to your Honourable Lordship, to whom of right & duty it appertaineth. For as heretofore, so always I must acknowledge, that whatsoever my poor labours can effect, is due unto your Lordship as to a special maintainer of true Religion, a lover of our Country, a Protector of our University, an up-holder of learning, & unto me a most Honourable Patron.  
Almighty God evermore bless and increase your Honour, to the good of his Church, to the service of the Kings most gracious Majesty, & to the great benefit of this Commonwealth. From University College in Oxford. januar. 4. 1604.  
Your Lordship's chaplain much bounden  
GEORGE ABBOT.   

To D. Hill, as a brief answer to his two letters prefixed before his book.  
AS he is not to be commended for skill at his weapon, who frameth unto himself a man of straw, and then at his pleasure doth prick or strike him: so you are not in too high a degree to be thought well of, for your knowledge in Divinity, who in the entrance of your petty work, do forge unto yourself an Epistle put out in the name of other, whereunto you may say, or not say, what best fitteth your own humour. You, who can be Fitz-Williams in steed of Hill, are capable of such a quality; & in composing of your former letter you cannot much dissemble it; when you pretend, your friends, the two Citizens that writ unto you, to be first so learned, as out of 
a Bud. ex Cicer.  Budaeus, or Tully to call you Opinator vehemens, and secondly so zealous as to seek to reclaim you from your course: and yet you bring them in, making no mention of Christian persuasion drawn from Divinity, or the word of God; but only multiplying upon you worldly reasons of Country and Parents, and friends, & preferment, and other such like matters. Such of our people as are grounded in Religion, can readily yield some account 
b 1. Pet. 3. 15  of the hope that is in them: but such as withal do make show of learning, may be presumed in a matter of this nature would intersert somewhat, which might savour of spiritual contemplation, especially their letter being sent to one of that mind, whereof throughout this treatise you show yourself to be. But this devise of your own seemed unto you the most cleanly shift, that by such a 
c Fight with a shadow.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you might have some colour to divulge your rotten Reasons; yet taking heed too, that you urge not yourself overhard, lest you might be deemed more unwise, than some of your Popish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…selues a voluntary penance, will not lash themselves sorer than agreeth with their own fancy.  
In your Answer to this imaginary Letter, you would have your Reader conceive in you a most firm resolution to persevere in Papistry, since no Parents are so dear unto you as the father of all fathers. Which judgement of yours were to be prized at a high rate, if it were certain and un-questionable, that you did walk aright. For there is nothing in the world like the pleasing of that e●…e, which 
d Psa 121. 4. Chrys●…m 23 〈◊〉 G●…n.  neither slumbereth nor sleepeth: and as S. Hierome could say, 
e ●…pist. 8. Tom. 9  It is better to blush before sinners upon earth, then before the holy Angels in heaven. But if you mistake your walk, and run in the way of falsehood, in steed of the path of truth; & so deprive yourself first of the company of your earthly Parents, and then of the comfortable presence of that father which fitteth in heaven; you resolve amiss, and the issues of your race are the issues of death, so that the fruit of your persistence, or pertinacy rather, is no less than truly miserable. 
f Mat. 15. 2.  When the pharisees stood stiffly for the Tradition of the Elders, & S. 
g Act 22. 4.  Paul was so vehement for his old opinions, that he persecuted the way of Christ unto the death: When S. 
h August de m●…us Eccl Cath 1. 18.  Austen for nine years space could not be reclaimed from Manicheisme, they thought they had done well, and verily believed, that those their courses were acceptable to the Almighty: and yet indeed they were most displeasing in his sight, most exorbitant from the rule of his commandments. God judgeth not by the imaginations and conceits of men: but according to those prescriptions which he hath laid down in his word, so is his determination. And whether your opinions do agree with that his sacred Scripture, we shall sift in time and place.  
In one Period you tell your friends, that they love you amore concupiscenti●…, rather than amore amicitia, seeking their own good thereby: yet you add in the very next sentence, that whatsoever they writ or say, you know it proceedeth from love and affection, and fro●… true am●…, but yet savouring merely of flesh and blood. Here we would gladly know, how true amity should be in any, and not amor amicitia. You had need explain this Paradox.  
If you were borne and baptized in Popery, it may seem that your birth was in Q. Mary's days: but how you should receive confirmation in the same errors, unless it were after your flying beyond the seas, we cannot tell. It is one thing to be generated, another to be regenerated; one thing to have a birth, another a new birth. And as touching your Baptism, you should remember that you were baptized into the faith of Christ, not into the belief of the Bishop of Rome; who for his own part shall stand or fall to God, but shall not so answer as to clear the souls of other. 
i Epiphanius in Ancorato.  Origen shall not stand by us in the day of judgement; neither shall any other so assist us, as by his protection to safeguard us. Neither is it sufficient to say, that after this or this sort I was baptized, and therefore I will continue in the same; in as much as the jew may say so far, touching his Circuncision in judaisme, and the Mahumetane concerning his Circumcision in Mahumetism: yea the Arrians were baptized in Arrianisme, and other Heretics received that Sacrament after the obliquities of their Heresies. It is ill to begin amiss: but it is worse to persevere in the by-ways of uncertain error. Tully could recount it for a fault, that 
k Academicar. Qu●…st. 4.  men in the weakest time of their age, either listening to some friend, or being inveigled by one oration of some body which they have first heard, they judge of things which they know not, and look unto whatsoever discipline they be carried as with a tempest. unto it they do cleave as to a rock, and never examine whether it be right or wrong. Yet such as these, in their elder years might have said for themselves; In this have we been conversant even from our youth: therein have we had our education; and therefore now we are not to vary from it: This determination had not been good in Philosophy, neither is the like to it commendable in Divinity.  
Your magnisike bravado of embracing that which is so ancient and universal, is but a blaze to dazzle the eyes of your credulous disciples. If in defence of your superstition, you be able to show aught of more antiquity, than the word of God is, we will soon yield unto you: but verily in comparison hereof, all for which you strive is but plain novelty. Neither doth the wide spreading of error, altar the nature of it into truth, or give any privilege for the warrant of the same: for than should the service and obedience of Satan be of higher worth than the verity of Christ, in as much as the fear of God hath ever been contained within more narrow lists, than the devotions and ceremonies performed to the Devil. Truth is not to be esteemed by the multitude of the followers, but by the reality of itself. But in the process of this work, there will be occasion more than once to speak of this argument. That joy of yours, that you follow not any new opinions, as of Puritanisme, Brownisme, Martinisme, or of the family of love, is but slenderly supported: for among men of understanding, it is no better to hold a long continued untruth, than a late-sprung-up falsehood. The one is to defend an inveterate error, and the other to maintain a later mis-conceite. And probably against the former it may be objected, that as 
l A●…ist Top 3. l. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  Bonum quò antiquius, eò melius: so on the contrary side, Malum quò antiquius eò peius. In those matters which deflect from the rule of right, the heavier sentence doth ever light, according to the measure or quantity of of the variation from the rule, not according to the age or youth of the opinion. That is but a circumstance: the other is the main consideration.  
Great carefulness you pretend to satisfy your friends, that it is not on any heady or brainsick fantasticalitie, that you are so addicted to the Romish profession: But while you join thereunto, that you have no purpose to persuade other to your superstition, as being dangerous because prohibited by the laws of the land wherein we live, we dare not entertain that on your Popish credit. For we are not so simple but to see, that this 
m Mat. ●…3 15.  compassing of sea and land, this labouring to disgrace our Religion and the professors of it, this forging and feigning so many untruths, this magnifying of the Papacy & the members thereof, & the publishing of all these, & that in the vulgar tongue, is to no other end but to make proselytes if it may be, to enlarge the kingdom of Antichrist, to extend the territories of the Pope, to stay and intricate the passage of the strong, to entangle the weak, to perverte the simple, to abuse those who are light of belief, to feed the humour of the malcontented, and to minister more poison to those who are already intoxicated with the cup of 
n Apoc. 17. 〈◊〉  fornication, reached out by the whore of Babylon. And in respect of this your project, we marvel not at all at your braving and facing, that you are able to afford us infinite more Reasons, why your profession is true Religion. We are now well acquainted with such brags as these are, and our youngest Divines who look into your works, which come from beyond the seas, do despise it and contemn it in you all; that when you have spent many years in compiling your pamphlets or greater books, yet it must be said to be done in a few weeks or months, or as Campians Reasons were, 
o Conclusio decem Rationum.  munusculum contextam operis in itinere subcisivis. And when you have raked together all that you can say, yea & stolen it also from the works one of another, yet you could make large volumes more, and fill the world with the ever-flowing streams of your continual running rivers. Of this we shall need no better instance than yourself; whose huge boasts will be displayed, to be but base and poor shifts; and your Quartron will be manifested to be, for a great part thereof, but borrowed stuff, and that of such mean quality, as that hardly it may go in the number of the buttons and lace, whereof you talk: that is to say, for Pedlerie and paltry ware it may be reputed, and not as aught of any precious account or reckoning. You had need therefore entreat your friends (as you do) to take all well, which if they do upon this your request, and so yield you your desire, it is much more of their kindness and courtesy, then of your deserving.  
The protestation, which you make of loyal and dutiful affection toward our and your Sovereign, is in show somewhat, if in truth your heart and actions do directly and indirectly correspond thereunto. But it may be demurred upon, whither those who are in highest authority, and by long experience and manifold intelligence have understood their course who are brought up in the Seminaries, will give credit to your words. You do not so dance in a net, as that you can see every body, and no body can see you. There is much and very much prejudice against you, such as will not in haste, upon the naked word of a person suspect, be satisfied for. We know this your Maxim, that faith given, or promise made to an Hereuke may be broken. We know, that with you the Pope is Christ's Vicar, and his voice is to be obeyed as an immediate Oracle of God. We undoubtedly understand that divers of the Roman Bishops have done their worst to deprive her late sacred Majesty of her crown and dignity. We find that many of your Predecessors and Schoolmasters, have in printed books much reviled and railed against the Lords Anointed, and some do yet persist. We are assured that the companies of your fellow students, are maintained by the late professed enemies of our Religion, Prince, and Country. We have it confessed by men of their own sort, that many of the English beyond the seas are at the sole devotion of the Spaniard. It cannot be denied that the rectors and chief men of, or near your Seminaries, as Allen, Bristol, Stapleton, Parsons, & other, have either by their actions, or their writings, or both, declared themselves known traitors against our dead Sovereign & the State, as also that divers of the leaders did with their best endeavours help forward the invasion, Anno 1588., and some of the meaner sort came in the fleet. And as certain it is, that sundry both Irish and English Priests and jesuits have been principal instigatours of the Irish tumults. At home, albeit of late there hath appeared some difference between such as are united to the Archpriest, and the rest which oppugn him, yet in this our Q. Elizabeth did certainly find that they all agreed, that to their vitermost they did knit 
p The proclamation. Nov. 5. 1602  as many as they could fast to the Pope, diminishing the number of those who were assured to her Highness, and increasing his account, who heretofore had as a temporal Prince his banner displayed in the field, and still to her death continued his warlike Stratagems against her Majesty. And from this root of being reconciled to the Roman Bishop, it ariseth, that many of your followers are malcontented with the present state, and insinuate so far as they dare, that they wish another government. All these scruples make against you; besides the frequent conspiracies by some against the life of our late gracious Queen, and by others, the justification of such Rebels as have lift up their sword against her. And well it were, if together with her death, the wicked malice of that false generation had died: but it is otherwise, as by the attempts of that Quodlibeting Watson and other his complices, is evident to all men. They have by printed books, made infinite protestations of allegiance and loyalty, the least spark whereof doth now see me never to have resided within their breasts: which well demonstrateth what credit may be given to active stirring Papists. Now for your part if you approve these things, your heart is not sound: and if you dislike them, you renounce many Theorems, and much also of the practice of Popery: and then you may be a witness to yourself, that as many of your forerunners and fellows have swerved in these actions and positions, so they and you also may go astray in your other points of Papistry, which you at this time do not more eagerly defend, or confidently maintain, than your predecessors and copartners have done the rest before named. But until this do enter into your heart, and you by evident demonstration do show us some better fruit, you must give us leave with a watchful eye to observe you, and to hold you no more loayll, than we have good assurance thereof. An enemy can humble himself, and make fair weather, till he can gain opportunity to effect his longe-wished and principal desires.  
Upon this I pray you to ruminate in your chamber at Phalempyne or Palempyne, whence you date your letters; which we will not imagine to be Pampelyne or Pampelune in Navarre, nor otherwise beat our brains to know what this meaneth, since an Examination hath detected, that Master Fitz. UUilliams, that is to say, you Doctor Hill, brought your book yourself to be Printed, not at Antwerp, as the first page falsely signifieth, but in England, and there where either black or white Lords or Ladies bear either game or name awa●…e. God send you so much grace as to see and consider your own courses, to recall your untruths, to repent for your slanders, and to make satisfaction to those simple and superstitious people, whom by this following libel you have abused.   

AN ANSWER TO THE FIRST REASON.  THOMAS HILL. 
If the Prophecies of the Holy Bible be true (as they be most true) then must the Religion of the Protestants needs be false.  GEORGE ABBOT. 
THat some do still continue to plead for their unholy father of Rome, & do their best endeavours to underprop & uphold the ruins of his decaying Babylon, ought not to seem strange to any Christian man, who hath but a competent knowledge of things spiritual. For while there is a church militant, there shall also be a Church malignant, labouring to oppress and keep down the other; and so long as Antichrist standeth, he shall have his admirers, yea and 
a Apoc. 13. 15.  adorers too, of the image of the beast. And toward the end of the world it is foretold, that there shall be swarms of 
b Cap. 9 3.  locusts, who in likelihood will not so ill love the bottomless pit, from which they do ascend, but that their purpose will be to return thither again, & draw with them such store of company, as they may be able to work upon. Neither may it seem wonderful, that among the devoted servants of the Pope, some of our nation being ●…ed over the seas, should play their parts and prizes, since it is their open profession to stand on his side, and fight under his banner: And something they must return for their hungry pensions & needy maintenance which they receive from his Holiness and the King Catholic; besides the containing of their favourites here in their former courses, by refreshing their wits with novelties; and the solacing of their own discontentments, which do the less gall and gripe their vnquie●… hearts, while their heads are busied with inventing, and their hands with writing that, which whether it be true or false, tending to edification or destruction, they little care or consider.  
2 But of the two, it is more to be marveled at, that after so long and plentiful a flowing forth of the water of life, there should yet be any of our countrymen and women remaining at home, who will taste of puddle water, yea be as greedy to drink thereof, as the masters of the broken cisterns can be ready to propose it unto them. That come there forth any pamphlet, of what small worth soever, yet some or other will either for their ignorance admire it, or for their unsettledness entertain it, or for their perverseness embrace it, as if it were some divine Oracle descended from above. But this is the instability of their judgement, who are once 
c Gal. 3. 1.  bewitched like the foolish Galathians, that although Christ hath been so lively testified unto them, as if he had been crucified before their eyes, yet if new teachers come one after another, they will earnestly attend, & listen unto them. The world is not so altered, but that in their passage to 
d Num. 11. 4.  Canaan, some Israelites will loathe that Mamna, which is 
c Ps. 78. 25.  the bread of Angels, & long to be again in Egypt. If there were never philosopher so absurd to invent any fond opinion, but there were some auditors as absurd to maintain and follow the same, who can conceive but that until the destruction of that whore, the famous strumpet (with the 
f Apoc. 17. 2  cup of whose fornication many of the Kings, and much of the people of the earth have been drunken) should still have some enamoured on her. As there ever will be deceivers, so there shall be some which will be deceived. Satan cannot give over his 
g job. 2. 2.  compassing the earth: his skoutes & messengers will intend his service. Some children of Idolaters to the world's end, shall unto the 
h Exo. 20. 5.  third and fourth generation participate of their parents curse, God withdrawing his grace from them, and not opening their eyes: the peevish will decline, stumbling at some rock of offence: weak women to show themselves to be Eves daughters, will rather 
i Gen. 3. 1.  choose to hearken unto the serpent then to God almighty: & young ones for want of judgement and discretion, will credulously listen to a Sirens Song. Thus it hath been, and thus it will be. Not withstanding, the Magistrate by his charge, & the Minister by his duty, & indeed every Christian in his place, is both for pieties and charity's sake to endeavour, to pluck as many as he can 
k jud. 23.  out of the fire, as Saint Jude speaketh.  
3 Yet this being granted, that such leaders and such followers there be and will be, it may nevertheless be much marveled at, that the wisdom of Popery is so blinded, and the ability of English fugitives is grown to so low an ebb in the Seminaries, that to make good their party they have no better means to use, but such base ones, as in this book or libel are presented to the world. Especially since this treatise is pretended to come from a Doctor of Divinity, and one taking degree in one of those Universities, which by themselves be 
l See Reason 15. and Bristol Motive 31.  reported to be so famous, as that almost he who may but smell the smoke of them, or breath but a while on the air there, shall be inspired with knowledge, & have more learning Metaphysically infused into him, than among us is to be attained to in many years. And can a man of the highest degree in school there, for the maintenance of his cause, bring no better than such worn & broken stuff, as here is congested and heaped together? Yet worship betid him, who not long before the birth of this tract, put out the 
m Certain Articles, or forcible Reasons. 1600.  Pamphlet, that, the Protestants have no faith nor religion: that the learned Protestants are Insidels: that the Protestants are bound in conscience to avoid all good works: that the Protestants teach, that God is worse than the Devil, and such other worthy conclusions, to which 
n D. Barlow. D. Buckley.  two learned men have made reply. For although he had but little honesty, in propounding such prodigious and portentous monsters, yet he had more wit; since that carried some ●…umble with it, albeit in such fort, as that those who respected it, were more afraid than hurt. That which coming unawares, seemed to the improvident at the first to be some clap of thunder, was at the last discerned not to be so much as the striking up of a drum: It was no otherwise but a few stones shaken together in an empty barrel. Yet the wile of the man is to be commended, that he could set some good words on it, as the Montibank●… doth use, who after open protestation that he hath something to sell of admirable virtue, of incomparable value, of inestimable benefit, which the Grand Seignor of the Turks, the Great Duke of Muscovy, the Emperor of Germany will accept of, and desire, yea earnestly call for, which to have at their need, Lords and Ladies will think themselves most happy: doth at the length & after all this flourish, produce some lippe-salve, or other such toy, as moveth laughter in some, and serious indignation in other, who have not been acquainted with the Mountebanks custom.  
4 But this gallant with whom I have to deal, and who speaketh as hereafter you shall hear, imagining that all the men in England are as blind as he would have them to be, hath sent us a fresh garment made of other men's old clothes, which the most of understanding have seen and known, to be both worn bare and torn like the Ruins of Time. And he hath little altered the very fashion of it, saving peradventure to set the right sleeve where the left formerly was, and something now before, which erst stood behind. Indeed some pieces he hath shrunk, & drawn them in narrower, to make them seem the thicker: & some other few (for in sooth they are but few) he hath enlarged with a skirt or hem of new cloth: and yet willing to buy as little stuff as possibly he might, in some places he hath sewed two or three rags together, so to make a pretty piece. The truth is, that now almost 
o An. 1574.  thirty years since, a countryman of ours, whom D. Fulke not unfitly called Bl●…ring Bristol, did with much boldness and little learning put forth a book, which he called his Motives unto the Catholic saith. Which as then for satisfying of the simple, & repressing of the craking insolency of the adversary, it was answered by a worthy man 
p D. Fulkes Retentives.  who now resleth with the Lord; yet since that time, (howsoever by some Romanists, Banke-rupts of better matter, it hath ever now & then slightly been talked of) almost generally it hath lain contemned of all, scant worthy the naming or serious recounting. Yet of late because Master Parsons was busy about State-causes, or the supporting of his weak and languishing Archpriest, and they have not many other which may keep the mint going, in the year 1599 some body thought good to revise their old t●…inkets, and for lack of richer stuff, out were put these Motives again, printed at Antwerp, as in the first Page is prefixed. And albeit this were a Crambê, whereof most stomachs, which received it, had surfeited before; yet this honest friend D. Hill, thought he would not leave it so, but the very next year 
q 1600.  after, and from the same forged place, & printed with the same letters, for any difference that may be seen between them, sendeth this script unto us, as if it were some new excellent book, whereas indeed much of the form & manner, and almost all the matter, for the ground thereof, is taken out of Bristol.  
5 Yet of his old rector Mr. Parsons, he borroweth some few Memorandums, and here and there a touch from Campian, and a finger he hath in Staphilus translated by Stapleton, on all which he bestoweth ever now and then a little viperous aspersion of his own; if among so much taken upon trust, we may judge that to be his own, which perhaps might be found to belong to some other, if we had use of all their books & dictates which they retain among them. Had it not been better for one of that learning which this title doth intend, to have translated a piece of Bellarmine, or Gregory de Ualencia out of Latin into English? If the work had been but mean, yet this had been gained by the bargain, that every English Papist & Protestant almost, had not been acquainted with the matter before hand. But to take an old English book, and to make a new English book of it, is but to take an old garment, and to turn it and new dress it, where when all is done, because it is not only turned but rotten stuff also, it deserveth no better than to be turned out of door, that it may find no place in the conscience of any Christian man or woman. Where by the way it may be observed, that reasons for Popery grow fewer & fewer; for Mr. Bristol being of likely hood desirous to have made them up fifty, did stretch his wit so far, as that, tales quails, he brought th●… to eight and forty. But D. Hill hath reduced his number to five & twenty: And though he would have his friends believe, 
r In his second letter  that he can add many more, yet the Reader shall find that in these he hath involved almost all the remainder of Mr. bristol matter, as in the process hereof shall be declared. And if hereafter he bring more, by God's assistance he shall have them examined. In the mean while I will be dealing with these, whom after the French fashion he uttereth by the Quartron; and calling them A Quartron of Reasons, doth intimate unto us, that being weighed in the balance of the Sanctuary they are as much worth as a quartern of raisings. Let us see now what proof is made of his first stout proposition.  T. HILL. 
BEfore the coming of the Messiat, there was not any People, or Nation which did serve the true and living God, but only the jews, all other whatsoever being overwhelmed in a Sea of blindness, & wors●…ipping false Gods, which indeed were Devils, and thereupon the Master Devil Lucifer was termed Princeps huius mundi, that is, Prince 
joan. 12.  of this world, for that he was 〈◊〉 and worshipped in all Lands & Kingdoms, jewry, and that in part only, excepted: which miserable state and condition God of his infinite mercy greatly pitying, promised in time to send a Saviour, which should redeem all Nations & People, free them from that pitiful servitude and blindness, and bring them to the knowledge of true and right Religion, by suffering death, and consequently by planting a Church, to the which all Nations should repair. Thus he did foretell by diver see & sundry Prophets, as by Esay, who said the Church should be as a mountain, to the which All nations should slow. And many people shall go and say; Come and let us ascend to the 
Cap. 2.  mountain of our Lord: and after, Idols shall utterly be bruised, and to be brief, all this Chapter, yea all the rest in a manner foreshew the same matter, declaring most plainly the conversion of all Nations to the Church of the Messias, and ●…w Kings and Queens should come, 
Cap. 49. & 60. Dan 2 & 7. Psal 47. Mich. 4. Luc. 1. Psal. 71.  and 〈◊〉 homage unto it, and that it should ever continue without interruption: and that it should be most ample and large, the Prophet David most manifestly foretelleth, saying, that it should extend from Sea to Sea, and from the river to the ends of the world, and how the Aethiopians should fall down Before the Messias, with the Kings of Tharsis, Arabia and Saba, and to be short, all Kings & People should acknowledge this Church, as innumerable Prophecies of the old Testament do plainly foreshow. Hereupon it was that good men thirsted and longed so greatly for the coming of the Messias, knowing that by him all people which sat in darkness, and in the shadow of death, should be lightened, delivered, and set in the right way to Heaven. And so our Saviour b●…selfe being now in the way to jerusalem to suffer, said, Now the Prince of this world shall be cast out: and, If I shall be exalted from the 
joh. 12.  earth, I will draw all to myself, meaning by his Passion to draw all people from Heathenish Idolatry to serve him.  G. ABBOT. 
6 I will not dispute with you, whether the master Devil (whom the jews termed 
s Luc. 11. 15.  Beelzebub) be called Lucifer or no, and whence that opinion had both his beginning and progress: neither will I handle any other thing of like nature, which properly belongeth not to that which is in difference between you and me: But I will condescend unto you, that some job, or jethro or some few such excepted, the Church for the ordinary compass of it, was after the entrance into Canaan, within the bounds of Israel, that is, the twelve Tribes at the first, and afterward in jewry, accounting that to comprehend the men of juda and Benjamin, with the Levites. And on these terms it stood till the coming of our most blessed Saviour, concerning whose appearance Esay did foretell, that to 
s Cap. 2. 2.  the mountain of the house of the Lord etc. all nations should flow, And many people should go and say, Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord. But that which you cite of Idols, 
t Vers. 18.  And the Idols will he utterly destroy, howsoever it may be applied unto Christ, yet if you look again, it may well be disputed to belong in that Chapter to another time and matter; and than you in referring the whole, to the revealing of the Messias, may very well be deceived. I will not stand with you, but that Esay and Daniel, and David and the other sacred writers, do give ample testimony of a copious confluence every way to the Church. As also it must be yielded that men longed for the coming of the foreappointed Saviour, since he it was alone who should bring joy unto mankind. Only by the way I do tell you, that in delivering the words of Esay, you are bold with the text, when you put it, Our Lord, whereas no such word, as Our, is there to be found. But that is your custom to hale in that word throughout the whole new Testament, it neither being in the Greek nor in the vulgar Latin. Only the 〈◊〉 Rhemists do enjoin 
In 1. Tim. 6. 20.  it to their obedient children, that they must not say, The Lord, but Our Lord, as we say, Our Lady, for his mother, not the Lady, & this they make to be a mark of difference between themselves so speaking, and us saying after the Scripture, The Lord. And accordingly our English people do practise it, if they savour of Popery●… so much that in all my life I have scant heard any in common speech always saying, Our Lord, but that party hath more or less been tainted that way.  
7 Furthermore when you name Heathenish Idolatry, do you give it that Epitheton, as meaning that Christ would put an end to the horrible superstitions of the Ethnics, but that there should still be Idolatry in your Synagogue, which by no means you will forego? Or is it rather your mind, that all Idolatry is heathenish, and that there can be none in the days of the new Testament? Indeed so Mr. Bristol your good master, would make us believe, saying, 
x Motiv. 32.  So must we every where understand Idols in the old Testament, that they were figures of heresies in this time of the new Testament, no other Idols being now but Heresies. Ponitur Idolum quan●… do novum dogma constituitur etc. An Idol is sell up, when a new Position (or Heresy) is erected, saith Saint Hierome, the most learned & expert 
In jer. 32.  interpreter of the Scriptures. Saint Paul also himself giving his voice thereunto, where by Baal, the Idol that God did speak of to Elias, 
Rom. 11.  be teacheth us to understand the erroneous wicked doctrine against Christ, 
3. Reg 19  of his incredulous Countrymen the jews of his time. This is good Logic Mr. Bristol, and for the sweetness of the conclusion, fit to be studied in your Popish Universities. An Idol is set up when a new doctrine is erected, (which is a figurative understanding) & Baal may in some application signify an erroneous doctrine, Ergo there be now no other Idols but Heresies, neither have been under the Gospel. By this reckoning you do well in your Catechisms to leave out the second commandment, as not at all belonging to the new Testament. But why did Saint john, after Christ's death and ascension too, bid, 
y 1. Ioh 5. 21 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  Babes keep yourselves from Idols. And is it not said else where speaking of times, after the opening of the 
z Apoc. 8. 1.  seventh seal, and when the sixth 
a Cap 9 13.  Angel had sounded his trumpet, that is to say, towards the end of the world, that men 
b Cap 9 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  repent not of the deeds of their hands, that they should not worship Devils, and Idols of gold and silver, and brass & stone, and of wood, which neither can see, neither hear, neither go, which being taken with all the circumstances, is a most manifest conviction, that in the later days there should be material Idols. To which may be added the Idols destroyed by Constantine, three hundred years after Christ, & the intolerable Idolatry which in this last age hath been discovered to be committed, in the East Indies, America and many parts of Africa, by divers Ethnics and Infidels, which did & do inhabit there. Therefore you cannot so run away & escape, but that even now also Idolaters you may be. This I note to show how your Popery doth hang upon gimols.  T. HILL. 
NOw if the Religion of the Papists (as these new men term them) be false & arronious, then is it against the Messias, and consequently it is a Religion of the Devils own invention, and he the master and inspirer thereof, and so by it he is served and worshipped: and then must it needs follow that the Prophets were false, yea Christ himself said not truly, in telling his Disciples, that the Prince of this world, that is, the Devil, should then be cast out, and that he would draw all to himself, for that since his passion the Devil bath had a more large and ample dominion than he had before.  G. ABBOT. 
8 Very bluntly & boisterously is your second Proposition here connected to your former: where we will not be straight-laced toward you, but readily yield you the term of Papists. For if Christians be such as depend upon Christ, you may well be called Papists, as resting your summn bonum upon the Pope's pleasure & determination. Neither shall you need much to press us, to grant that your Religion, or rather Superstition is false & erroneous, yea against the Messias, & as far forth as the abuses of it stretch, of the Devils own invention. For Saint Paul doth teach us, that it is 
c 1. Tim. 4. 〈◊〉. 2. 3.  doctrine of Devils, to speak false in hypocrisy, to forbid to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with giving of thanks; the first whereof, most of you plentifully perform, the second you inhibit to some men at all times, the third to all men at some times, and that not for state-government, but for Religion sake. But the sequel of your inference, doth prove to be a most discinct and dissolute thing: for how will it then follow that the Prophets were false, and Christ said not truly? Marry, in telling his Disciples that the Prince of the world, that is, the Devil should then be cast out, and that he would draw all to himself. Which do you so expound, as that all Nations of the world should immediately after his death, resurrection, and ascension be converted to the faith, & should always so continued? which your former words may well seem to import, by your inculcating of All 
d Fol. 2.  Nations, & having afterwards subjoined unto it, ever continue without interruption, &, 
e Fol. 3.  all Kings & people should acknowledge this Church, & again, all people which sat in darkness, & in the shadow of death, should be lightened, delivered, and set in the right way to Heaven. If you take it thus, you are pitifully out: for our Saviour hath foretold that into the 
f Math. 7. 13  wide gate & broad way, that leadeth to destruction, many there be which enter; but the strait gate and narrow way that leadeth unto life, few there be that find. And it was revealed unto john, that with the whore of Babylon the 
g Apoc. 17. 2.  Kings of the earth committed fornication, & the inhabitors of the earth are drunken with the wine of her fornication. And experience hath confirmed, that not only the Saracene doctrine hath for almost these thousand years possessed the show & face of many great countries; but time out of mind, very Gentilism & Heathenism have reigned in the East & West Indies, in the islands near adjoining, in divers parts of Africa, in Lappia, and many other countries, the name of jesus our Redeemer (for aught that of certainty can be found) till of late years being scant ever heard of among them. Or do you rather understand those speeches of all Nations coming unto him, & of all being drawn unto Christ, to carry this sense, that the Gentiles now, as well as formerly the jews, should be admitted, and moreover that the word should be spread to the East and to the West, and to the North and to the south, so that before the day of judgement, God should have some faithful in every quarter; and sometimes when his Church did flourish many thousands in divers places, and always some servants somewhere? In this meaning if you take it, we willingly join with you, the rather induced thereunto by the nature of the word, All, in the Scriptures, and by the manner of the fulfilling of those Prophecies in the Church, in such a sort as with reason cannot be gainsaid. For as All in holy writ doth evermore at least signify many, so it doth not continually import a generality without any sort of exception. When it is said that to john the Baptist 
h Math. 3. 5.  went out Jerusalem and all jewry, and all the region round about jordan, it is not meant that no individual person did stay at home, but many of all sorts, rich and poor, young and old, men and women, such a company as if almost all the country had come in, were partakers of his Baptism. So 
i 'tis 2. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  the grace of God hath appeared, which bringeth salvation to all men, saith Saint Paul to Titus. Like to which is that to Timothy, 
k 1. Tim. 2. 4.  God our Saviour, who will that all men shall be saved; where All intendeth many, or divers of divers sorts, not universally every one. He will have all to be saved, saith Gregory, 
l In 1. Reg. 14.  because out of every sort of men he chooseth those whom he draweth to the joy of everlasting salvation. And Aquinas himself among other interpretations of that later place, hath this, 
m Part 1. q. 19 a. 6.  It may be understood that the distribution must be made pro generibus singulorum, and not, pro singulis generum, according to this sense: God will have of every state of men to be saved: males and females, jews and Gentiles, small and great, but not all of every several state. And who will say that in every particular country of Asia, or the continent toward the South pole, or many other quarters of the world, the Church of Christ hath always apparently been? The Romanists of all other must not say so; if they will have the congregation of God's faithful to extend itself no further than their doctrine & the Pope's usurpation doth go. For they cannot prove that ever those regions heard of the name of the Roman Bishop until this last age, if now they do, or have lately done. This then we grant unto you: that Christ jesus hath evermore a Church, & that variously dispersed under the cope of heaven, not bounded within narrow precincts, as that of the jews was. The goodly titles also which in the word are given unto it, are ever true in respect of the purity of religion, but especially for the fundamental points which finally concern salvation. And they are also as true for the visible glory of the church in time of peace & the free course of the Gospel: but are not perpetually & without interruption, to be understood for the patent extent of the same, & that gloriously & apparently to be in any one country of the world, as the defenders of the Roman Hierarchy would challenge to themselves.  T. HILL. 
FOR before the coming of the Messias, the people of the jews, & many others also in other Lands, which were of the jewish Religion, were in some sort far from the bondage of the Devil; but since his coming both jews and Gentiles and almost all Nations, Tribes and Kingdoms have been ever in Lucifer's thraldom until this our age, in which Luther came to expel Lucifer, and to rid all the world out of his captivity. And so the passion of our Redeemer availed little or nothing at all, for the space of these fifteen hundred years; & for a thousand years together he was so far from drawing all unto him as he said he would do, that he drew not so much as one person that any man can name. And in 
joh. 12.  our Country there of England, it is most manifest that all were Papists without exception from the first Christening thereof, until this age of King Henry the eight.  G. ABBOT. 
9 YOU labour to prove, that if you be not the Church, the Devil's dominion since Christ's time hath been larger than ever it was before. And your reason is, that before the coming of Christ, the jews and other of the jewish profession in other lands were in some sort free from the bondage of the Devil: (which is true in all those who by the eyes of faith did foresee the birth, life & death of the Messias, & did believe on him, reputing him their Redeemer, as 〈◊〉 job did call him) but since his manifestation, say you, jews & Gentiles & almost all Nations, Tribes & Kingdoms 
〈◊〉 job. 19 25.  have been ever in Lucifer's thraldom until this our age, in which Luther came to expel Lucifer etc. I wonder that you can suffer the name of Luther to pass so quietly without some egregious contumely: but keeping it for him you only stay it a while, & anon he shall have it. But being here in the height of that argument, which above all other pleaseth your side, and the very rehearsing whereof (as you would make your doting followers believe) doth make us all 
o Campian Ration. 3.  look pale; you amplify your former proposition, that if this be yielded unto, Christ's passion availed little or nothing at all for fifteen hundred years; but for a thousand years he was so far from drawing all unto him, that he drew not so much as one person that any man can name. This is spoken like a man of some metal indeed: & by this shall your disciples know how to trust you hereafter. But as if yet you had deserved but one end of a sharpingstone, and meant to have the rest with you before that you depart, you tell us that in our own country, there of England, (which whether you speak with some contept or no, yourself can best discover) it is most manifest that all were Papists without exception, from the first Christening thereof, until this age of King Henry the eight. You are a blessed companion, & a man may believe much upon your word. Doubtless you persuade yourself that all, who should read your book, would be mad, or drunk, or senseless, or else you must think that they would admit and admire you for a singular liar. Besides that of Antiquity, the writings and testimony of your own men, will convince you in this to have neither wit nor shame. We make it good against you, that the thousands and ten thousands of the servants of God in the Primitive Church knew at the first nothing; and afterwards but little of your blasphemous Popery, and that not in the mainest points: And albeit in process of time, superstition (as it was 
p 2. Thes. 2. 3. 1. Tim. 4. 1. 2. Pet. 2. 1.  foretold) did by little and little creep in, yet in all ages God had his Church of such as did not spot their souls with your horrible contammations: And we maintain it, that in our own land there were testimonies most luculent, of such as detested the Antichristian pride, & other lose behaviour of the Roman Clergy, both in doctrine & manners, & served the Lord after the prescript of his own word, as now we do endeavour to do. If you know not this Mr. Doctor, you have read but little, & so in some sort we question your scholarship: or else you have read it, and so we question your conscience. But we will hope the best, that it is your ignorance: although these present propositions and many other in your book, do give us great occasion to suspect your honest conscience. Your own men will be ashamed, that you talk in this fashion, as anon you shall perceive. But I follow you a while.  T. HILL. 
AND so the Protestants affirm of other Countries, & boldly say, 
Luther in postil Ger. 1537 part. 2. fol. 141.  that until this age, the Gospel lay in the dust, & was hidden under the bench, and Christ was unknown. Which to say (as the Protestants must needs say, and blush not to say indeed) is mere madness and flat infidelity, and a plain denying of Christ, and no small establishment of Mahomet's Religion. For the Protestants and Mahometans agree in this, that the Church which Christ founded, fell some five or six hundred years after his ascension, into most horrible errors, and then (say the Turks) the Angel Gabriel was sent from God to Mahomet, to teach him how he should reform the said Church, because it would not stand with the wisdom and goodness of Almight●… God to suffer his Church to vanish away through errors and superstitions, without sending in time to reform it. And in this, out of doubt, the Turks have far greater reason than the Protestants have, which Protestants by their doctrine make Christ the most simple & most improvident Lawe-giver that ever was in the world. For neither Plato, Solon, Lycurgus nor any other Lawmaker whosoever, was so simple and improvident as to fashion and plant a Commonwealth, which before it were well settled should vanish away and come to nothing, having no sufficient means to prevent errors, and such abuses as would ever throw their Laws, & destroy their Cmon wealths. And therefore if Christ be God, & the holy Bible true, the Religion of the Papists must needs be that Religion which he ordained, and left to all generations, and consequently the only true and right Religion.  G. ABBOT. 
10 SInce by your last foregoing words, it hath appeared to be your profession, in your own person to speak largely, it is most probable that to the uttermost you will rack and pervert the speeches of other. There is neither Luther nor any other Protestant so absurd, as to say according to that which you would intimate here, that there was no Church till of late, & that the Gospel was absolutely hidden, or Christ simply unknown until their days. For we well understand, & teach contrariwise, that in the Primitive Church plentifully, & afterward always more or less, in some parts of the world or other, there were the Elect of God, who groaning to behold the common errors of their age, did strive to believe and live after the rule of the Scriptures. But the speech of Luther & of us in that behalf is comparative: that in comparison of that which it should be: or that which had been not long after the Apostles: or in respect of that which the Lord hath of late revealed: or of that which by the faithful might have been wished, the Gospel had not for some later ages, so free a course, and Christ was not so ordinarlly & unpollutedly taught; but the Bible lay much neglected, and was cast aside in comparison of other books. And while we acknowledge this, we need not to blush, neither is it madness in us, but 
q Act. 26. 25  the words of truth and soberness, as Saint Paul said in a like unjust accusation: nor yet infidelity, or denying of Christ, or the establishing of Mahomet's Religion. Hear you heap up many words, but are not able to prove the least part of your own Propositions: we must therefore give you leave to say much, & conclude nothing. Your unjust imputation that not only in this, but in divers other matters, we join with the Turks, you borrow of Doctor Gefford, who no less slanderously then crakingly, pretendeth to do great things in his Calvino-Turcismus. (The maliciousness whereof is already displayed, and the crime returned by a learned 
r D. Sutliv. in Turco. Papismo.  man upon the Papists themselves.) It is to be hoped that the Author thereof will either in time repent him and turn to grace, or receive the reward of his blasphemous speeches against Christ's Religion, & his venomous revile against his natural Prince & country. In the mean while he may look to the clearing of his credit, from the accusations of father Parsons, 
s Parson's manifestation cap. 1. & 7.  who describeth him to be very ill qualified, & no better than a firebrand in kindling dissension even among the English fugitives of the Roman College. But for our parts, know you, o the whole rabble of the Romish generation, that we from the bottom of our hearts detest turcism and Mahumetism, and know that Mahomet was a false Prophet, & never had Angel, (unless it were one of darkness) sent unto him. And as touching the Church of Rome, we are not ignorant that before the days of Mahomet, it did by little & little decline, but in the time of Phocas the Emperor & Boniface 
s Vide Plat. in Bonif. 3.  the third, than Pope, (which was near to the days of Mahomet) the malignity of it did grow much greater. And since that season, the mystery of iniquity hath wrought forward & forward, & it is almost grown to the ruin of itself. But in all this time the Congregation of God's servants was never extinct, not the Church brought to such pass, as that Mahomet one of the great enemies of Christianity should need to reform it. His reformation was deformation, and to his power he would like the 
t Psa 80. 13.  Boar of the Forest, have rooted up Christ's vineyard. If then you will understand what it is which we do teach, the Turks have not so much as in show, any the like reason for their most vain assertion, as we have for our position; since our doctrine in this case is laid upon a sure foundation, which with all your invectives you shall no more be able to impeach, than you can hurt the Moon with stones thrown against her. Neither do we make Christ a simple & improvident lawgiver, but wise, & wisdom itself in all his actions, since he determined before hand what he would have done, & that not after your imaginations, but after the depth & purpose of his own counsel; & accordingly in time he performed it. For he had ever those who were his Congregation, & Commonwealth, observing his statutes; & this regiment was better settled then that of Solon or Lycurgus was, the precincts of whose government were bounded within the territories of the Spartan & Athenien jurisdiction, & in the compass of some hundreds of years came to their period & end. But this of our Saviour is restrained within no limits of time, (but is perpetual,) nor circuit of place, otherwise then as it seemeth good to his infinite wisdom, to restrain or to enlarge it. Now whereas you join here with Solon and Lycurgus the lawgiver Plato, I pity your oversight. For that Commonwealth which Plato imaginarily erected, did indeed vanish away and come to nothing, before it was settled. For all men of learning can tell you, that there never was any such matter in rerum natura, but in his books De 
u Platon. Dialog. de Rep.  Republica he propounded speculatively, what was to be striven and contended for, if we could attain to perfection. But if I should ask you in what City, or within the compass of what Country it was established, you cannot answer me: unless after much study you should remember yourself, & reply that it was in Sir Thomas More's Utopia, and famous Citizens there, were Aristotle's Felix, and Tullyes' Orator, & Castilios Courtier; and Xenophons' Cyrus albeit he could not be a Monarch there, yet carried the mainest sway. Well, I pardon you this fault: notwithstanding requesting you to put it among your negligences and ignorances; and telling you withal, that our boys and ordinary scholars, in those 
x Rat. 15.  Universities which you seem to vi●…sie, can inform you, that Plato was a Lawmaker, and a Commonwealth establisher, but by imagination. And so nothing here said doth hinder, but that Christ may be God, as indeed he is 
y Rom. 9 5.  God over all, blessed for ever, and the holy Bible true, as verily it is the sacred rule of truth; and yet the Religion of the Papists is not that Religion which Christ ordained, or left to all generations, but a mere profanation of his Word & Sacraments, a horrible abomination, the service of Antichrist, idolatry and superstition. And so I let you breathe a while●…dismissing you notwithstanding with this close, that although in this Chapter you took some more pains than you meant to do hereafter, because this is the front of your book, yet the ground of this your foremost tract is taken from the 
z Motiv. 37. & 45.  seven and thirtieth, and five & fortieth Motive of Bristol; you, to colour the matter, placing the end almost of his book in the beginning of yours. But hereafter you will show yourself more plainly, as from Chapter to Chapter I shall remember you.  
11 ANd here the Christian Reader will pardon me, if partly to show the ignorance and indiscreet folly of this fresh gamesler, and partly to stop the mouths of other our clamorous adversaries, but especially to satisfy the weak, I do add something more in the former argument, although by divers of our men much heretofore hath been suide to that purpose, both in English and Latin. We do therefore teach, that as from the beginning long before the incarnation of Christ, God ever had his Church, yet sometimes more visible and glorious, and sometimes more contracted and obscured; so since the appearance of our Saviour, at all times infallibly & without exception, there have been chosen children of God, who have retained his faith, & calling upon his name have studied to express their knowledge in their life, by retiring themselves both from the lose conversation of Libertines, and the profanations of Idolatrous persons. Neither ever was there any of our profession, which did teach or write the contrary. But whereas the Synagogue of Rome lay it down for a fundamental rule, that this Church hath been and must be in all ages, a visible and conspicuous congregation at the least, consisting of an apparent Hierarchy, so that at all times a man may point it out, and may repair thither as to a matter eminent, yea and in a sort pompous too, or to say as Stapleton speaketh when he doth most extenuate it, 
a In Antid. Matth 24.  It is evermore visible in respect of her governors and shepherds, but most of all for the Pope or chief Pastor thereof; to which Pope, 
b De Roma. no Pontif. 4. 4.  Bellarmine assigneth, that he cannot err in judgement, and to the people and Clergy of Rome (where this sensible Church must principally be) that they cannot err with a personal error, so that all altogether err; we therein do dissent from them, & maintain that although when the godly are most driven to extremities, by heresies or persecutions, they be visible each to other, & acquainted with some other brethren who are in like case with themselves, yet they are not so apparent to other men, as that at all times they know where to find assemblies, and congregations of them. But that the Bishop of Rome and his Pontifical Clergy, should have the face of the Church tied, and inseparably joined unto them, we can in no sort yield, but do disclaim it as a flattering tale, suggested to that Bishop by such parasites as are about him, and from time to time do depend upon him.  
12 And that it may be seen what reason we have of this our assertion, we first show, that the estate of the faithful was frequently so, before the coming of Christ. For when it lay as hid in some few persons, within the single families of the old patriarchs, before and after the flowed, what great boast could there be made of it? Nay when the Commonwealth of the jews was much settled, into what straits was it brought, when David complained, 
c Psal. 12. 1.  Help Lord for there is not a godly man lest: for the faithful are failed from among the children of men; this being spoken, as it is most probable, in the days of Saul, after the death of Samuel, and the 
d 1. Sam. 22. 18.  slaughter of the Priests. How was it even in judah and Jerusalem, when Esay cried out, that the 
e Isai. 1. 5. 6.  whole head is sick, and the whole heart is heavy? from the sole of the foot unto the head there is nothing whole therein; the estate of the Church being then most miserable, and all depraved, not only in manners, but in religion, Idolatry being plentiful as is manifest by the words in the same vision, 
f vers. 29.  for they shall be confounded for the Oaks, which ye have desired, and ye shall be ashamed of the gardens which ye have chosen, which intendeth the trees and pleasant places where they used their superstitions. Call to mind the days of leremy, when he said, 
g jer. 5. 1.  Run to & fro by the streets of Jerusalem, and behold now and know and inquire in the open places thereof, if ye can find a man, or if there be any that executeth judgement, and seeketh the truth, and I will spare it: And those of Ezechiel testifying in this sort, I 
h Ezech 22. 30.  sought for a man among them that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. These things were said of judah and Jerusalem, where alone at that time was that Church which was, the Israelites for their grievous sins being long before carried away into captivity. You may add to this, if you will, the complaint of Micah, 
i Micah. 7. 1  We is me, for I am as the Summer gatherings, and as the grapes of the vintage: there is no cluster to 〈◊〉 my soul desired the first ripe fruits. The good man is perished out of the earth, and there is none righteous among men: they all lie in wait for blond: every man ●…teth his brother with a net. If the Priests & people had not almost generally gone astray, and the whole face of the visible Church had not seemed to be defaced, would these Prophets thus have particularized, that one godly man was not left, that one was not to be found who had not declined from truth?  
13 We doubt not but in those times the Lord had many faithful ones in secret, as he had seven thousand in Israel when 
k 1. King. 19 18. Rom 11 4.  Elias lived, of whom neither the enemies of the truth, nor scant that Prophet did take any notice. The 
l Ezech. 9 4 Apoc. 7 3.  mark in the forehead is sometime known to few, but only to him who imprinted it there; yet this is a good hold for the Elect, 
m 2. Tim. 2. 19  The Lordknoweth who are his. But upon what might those, who were God's secret chosen, out wardly build, when divers times the Princes and people had corrupted their ways, and the Temple itself was polluted and made a sink of Idolatry? For we find that things stood upon those terms in the days of Manasse, when in the house of the Lord, even that house whereof the Lord had said, 
n 2. Reg. 21. 4. 5.  In Jerusalem will I put my name, he built profane altars: and in the two courts of the house of the Lord he built altars for all the host of Heaven. judge where in those days was the glory of the visible church, or where it was a pretty while before that, when the Priest 
o 2. Reg. 16 11.  Vriah was as ready to set up in the temple an altar after the fashion of that which was in Damascus, as the King Ahaz was ready to command it. And then the Prince & Priests conspiring, there was scant any kind of gross Idolatry, which was not plentifully committed. Ahaz himself making 
p Vers. 3.  his son to go through the fire after the abominations of the Heathen. And lest it should be thought that the people at least, did amend somewhat which was amiss, in the very next Chapter it is witnessed in general, 
q 2 Reg. 17. 19  Yet judah kept not the commandments of the Lord their God, but walked according to the fashion of Israel which they used. And by most probability, this outrage under 
r Isa. 1. 1.  Ahaz was the tune, against which Esay so inveighed in the vision before remembered. These things are so plain, that the greatest pillars of the Papacy cannot deny them; & therefore they are forced to another shift, as the Rhemists when they say, 
s In Rom. 11. 4.  that there is a great difference between the Christian Church & the jews, ours resting upon better promises than the●…s; which is a very poor eva●…ion, in as much as every Divine may know, that there be as large and many promises, that the Church of the jews should last until Christ's appearance in the flesh, as there be that the Congregation of God's Saints, shall continued among the Gentiles until the day of judgement. And saving only for the time of the Babylonish captivity, there was one set external place of God's eminent service, that is, the Temple at jerusalem, supported with such words, 
s Psal. 132.  This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell, etc. &, 
t 2. Chr. 33. 4.  In jerusalem shall my ●…me be for ever; she like whereof throughout all the continuance of the new Testament, is not warrantable out of the word, for any one place whatsoever. No it cannot so much as superficially be maintained out of the Scripture that Rome itself hath any such promise: but rather out of the Revelation of St. john there are many substantial matters which make to the contrary.  
14. But because by the strong shot of truth, they be beaten from the bulwark of the jewish Synagogue, & fly to the next hold of the later Testament, let us follow them thither. When our Saviour Christ was borne, & for the most part afterward till he was baptised, where shall we conceive, was the visible Church? The Scribes and Pharisees possessed all the show, & they were no better than 
u Mat. 23. 24  blind guides of the blind. The 
x 2. Mach 4. 8. 24. c. 11. 3. joseph. de bell. Iud 4. 5 & lib. 5. 9  Priesthood was long before and after bought & sold; & in Christ's own time, it is evident out of the Scripture, that the highest spiritual dignity going by 
y joh. 11. 51.  years, Annas & Caiphas & other unworthy men of that rabble did enjoy it. Upon the birth of jesus, they were not glad who should most have rejoiced in it, but all jerusalem was 
z Math. 2. 3.  troubled at it. And how they persisted afterward till Christ did manifest himself fully, may be guessed by divers circumstances, which the Evangelists do mention after his birth. But when he came first into the world, of whom do we find speech made, but of some shepherds in the field, of Simeon an old man, of Anna a most aged woman; both ready to go into their graves, of joseph & Mary, Zacharias & Elizabeth and very few other? And of these some might be soon dead, other lived out of the way, at bethlehem or Nazareth or in Egypt, & the shepherds were in the fields about their trade; but where there was the apparancy of a visible congregation, can hardly be imagined. When our Saviour had selected out his Apostles, they then were termed by the name of a Flock, but yet by their master they were called but a 
a Luc. 12. 32.  little flock, where the Rhemists do confess, that 
b Rhemens'. ibi.  in the beginning it was little indeed. At the death of Christ, when his body hanged on the Cross for our sakes, & his disciples were 
c Math. 26. 56.  all fled, no man daring to show himself, 
d joh. 19 25. Nic. Cleman. de matter▪ Concil.  Mary & john & a few women were all the faithful that now appeared upon earth. And afterward while the Apostles & their followers walked very privately, or were assembled in a 
e Act. 1. 13.  chamber, the Priests, & Scribes & pharisees were they who ●uffled it in the streets, & bore the sway in the Temple: so that if a weak body had inquired for the church, he might rather have been directed to them, who had the law & the altars & all sacred things in their custody, then to any other. When 
f Act. 8. 1.  Steeven had been stoned, and for fear of the persecution, which was at Jerusalem, the disciples were all scattered besides the Apostles, it may well be presumed that for a time, they which remained in the city, where Steeven had lost his life, did not walk very openly. Truth it is that after these things the Church was better settled, and the truth was more spread: but yet never was there any such privilege bestowed upon it, but that in the days of persecution, or some grievous Apostasy, the faithful might be brought to a small visibility.  
15 Our Saviour's words intent so much, when alluding to the time of his second appearance, to judge the quick & the dead, he asketh, 
g Luk 18. 8.  Nevertheless, when the son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? as meaning that very little should then be to be found, in comparison of the flowds and Ocean of iniquity, which every where should abound. But God to the end that he might not have us ignorant, but warned before hand, into what straits the Church should be brought, informeth us by Saint Paul, that the Lord shall not come, except there first be an 
h 2. Thes. 2. 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  Apostasy, or revolt, or falling away, wherein Antichrist with great pride and disdain should show himself. This is solemnly spoken of by the Apostle, & by all both old & new entreating of it, is observed to signify some matter of great note, that is to say, some main declining from somewhat. Many of our Papists fearing to touch this soar which can in no case turn them to good, would have this interpreted to note nothing else, but the slipping of diverse regions & countries, from their subjection to the Roman Empire. But Gregory Martin and the other Rhemists, being overcome with the evidence of truth, are here a little more honest than ordinary, and speak to other purpose. Indeed they cannot tell how it will be taken at other Papists hands, that contrary to the custom of their fellows, in a matter of such moment, they should give way unto us, and therefore they do use these words in way of excuse, be 
i Rhemens'. in 2. Thes. 2 3.  it spoken under the correction of God's church, & all learned Catholics. But to the point, concerning the Apostasy they deliver this; It is very like that this great defection and revolt, shall not be only from the Roman Empire, but specially from the Roman church, and withal, from most points of Christian Religion. In the margin it is, and from most articles of the Catholic faith. Here they would have us take the Romish belief, for the Christian Religion & Catholic faith: but that deserveth a long pause. We rather observe out of them, that this revolt is in matter of faith, and not only from the Empire; than which gloss nothing can be truer. Well then, if there must be so egregious an Apostasy, it will follow, that Antichrist so domineering, as by the Apostle he is described, will not be negligent so to repress the public service of God, that it shall not carry any lively head or countenance, where he hath to do. So that certainly our Rhemists yielding to this exposition, do in substance confess so much, as that the apparency of God's congregation, in the time of the great defection, must be mightily eclipsed. Now the Lord, to the end that he might establish his faithful, and arm them to expect this paucity of believers, and inconspicuousnes of his Church, and yet not be discouraged for that which should be passed, present, or to come; and again that there might be no doubt in a matter of this moment, letteth us farther know, that the 
k Apoc. 12. 6  woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God. It is not doubted of between the Romanists & us, but that this woman doth represent the church, concerning whom being in the wilderness, it doth manifestly follow, that for the time of her abode there, which the Almighty had decreed, she should not be discerned; that is, by her enemies, who did and would chase her: not withstanding it be not to be doubted, but she knew where herself was. If the Romanist therefore and persecuting Adversary, did not ever see the professors of the Gospel, it was no wonder, the woman was to remain in the wilderness apart & hid from them. The evidence of which matter is such, that as Master 
l In praefat. super Apocalypse.  Foxe observeth, for fear of diverse things in the Revelation of S. john (whereof this may worthily be one) scant any Popish writer for many years together, durst adventure to comment any thing upon the Apocalyps, until our Rhemists being desirous to shame the Pope & themselves, with all who are wise, adventured to set pen to paper. Having then a purpose to set forth, and corrupt the New Testament, partly by their Translation, but most of all by their Annotations, they may not choose but say somewhat of the Revelation, although they profess that it is as 
m In argument. Apocalyps. & in Apoc. 1. 1.  sparingly as may be, & as briefly; which is not for that the volume of the Rhemish Testament groweth great, as they would colour it, but for fear lest they should too much lay open their own weakness, which while that book is in the Bible, will never be concealed. Howsoever therefore through their volume, in many main matters they be very silent, where they should most speak; as of the question of imputed righteousness, where the 
n Rom 4. vi de Ration. 14.  Apostle doth most handle it, (a ●…ore argument of their own conscience distrusting their cause, & even sinking under the weight of that Chapter) yet here God overruling them to say a truth, as he did 
o joh. 11. 50  Cayphas, they interpret the woman to be the 
p In Apoc. 12. 6.  Church, flying from the great persecution which shall be in the time of Antichrist. Indeed to keep peace with their Lord and Master the Pope, they will not have this flight to be, but in the very ending of the world, and so they would fetch it with a back racket, that the woman should continue so in secret, but three years & an half, which (to keep all upright) they assign to be the time of Antichrists reign, & then the judgement must come; which is a most fond evasion, seeing by that means men living at the appearance of Antichrist, should be able precisely to tell, when the last day should be, to wit, three years and a half after Antichrists entering. But of 
q Mark. 13. 32.  that day and hour knoweth no man, no not the Angels which are in heaven, neither the Son himself, save the Father only. It can never be made good, that the 
r Apoc. 11. 2 3. c. 12. 6. c. 13. 5. Dan 7 25.  time, times, and half a time, the two and forty months, and the thousand two hundred and sixty days, are so literally to be taken, as that they should contain exactly three ordinary years and a half. Your Roman Bishop in his declination, hath already been in the world much longer, and he is the greatest Antichrist that ever yet was manifested among men, and on whom many things in the Scripture signified touching Antichrist, do directly and avoidable light.  
16 Well, this revolt taking place, and the woman the Church being in the wilderness, it is not to be doubted, but here & there be divers which serve God aright, the very 
s Mat. 16. 18  gates of hell not being able to prevail against them. And as these in general, wheresoever dispersod, do make up the universal militant Church, so where any few of them, even in the smallest number, are assembled tog●…ther, they may be said to be a particular Congregation or Church. 
s Exhortatio ad castitatem  Where three are, saith Tertullian, there is a Church although they be lay persons. It is likely that he alludeth to that saying of our Saviour, 
t Mat 18. 20.  Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. He is with them as with members of his Church, to guide them & hear them, to bless than & preserve them. And that such little assemblies are not unworthy the name of the Church, is plain by St. Paul's words to ●…hilemō, where he sendeth greeting not only to Philemon, & Appiat & Archippus, but to 
u Philem 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  the Church in philemon's house, for so the Rhemists themselves translate it. In dangerous & Apostatating times, such petty aslemblies do make up the general, & they belong unto the same mystical body, although they not only be not known to their persecutors, but many of them have no acquaintance with other. T●… have the same head, the same faith, the same charity, the sam●…●…pirit, 
u De Baptism, contra Donatist 6. 4 Idem Spiritus sanctus ca dimittit▪ (i. peccata) qui datus est omnibus Sanct●…s etc.  The same holy Ghost is given to all Saints, joined one to the other in love, whether they know each other corporally, or do not know than, saith Saint Austen▪ The want then of acquaintance each with other may keep the godly a●…ūder, as well as the rage of their persecutors, both which are to be sound in the case of Elias. But directly to follow farther this argument of the Eclipse of the Church's glory, may it not be thought to be brought to a low ebb, when it is said of the second beast▪ that 
x Apo. 13. 16.  he causeth all, both small & great, rich & poor, free & bond, that he should give them a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads, & that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast; or the number of his name. And what else is signified when so many 
y Cap. 17. 2. 15.  are mentioned to have commerce with the whore of Babylon, yea all 
z Cap 18. 3.  Nations are reported to have drunken of the wine of the wrath of her fornication? The ancient Fathers were not ignorant, that such times there might be, when they so oft cōpa●…ed the Church to the Moon, as Saint Ambrose; 
a Epistol. lib. 5. 31.  The Moon itself, whereby in the Oracles of the Prophets the countenance of the Church is figured, when at the first rising again she is renewed into the ages of the month, she is hidden by the darkness of the night, & by little & little fi●…ing her horns, or right ever against the Sun ending them, doth shine with the light of clear brightness. Saint Austen in one 
b In Psa. 10.  place doth for divers respects liken the Church unto the Moon, and expoundeth the Moon to signify it. In another 
c Serm 134. de Tempore.  place he saith the Sun is Christ, the Moon the Church. Which as on the one side it doth intimate unto us, that the Moon hath no light but from the Sun, and the Church no light or beauty but from God: so on the other side it doth most lively put us in mind, that as the Moon continueth not at the same stay, but increaseth and decreaseth, waxeth and waneth, is eclipsed by the interposition of the earth between herself & the Sun, & sometimes in the change cannot be seen, although it is never to be doubted but there is a Moon; so the Church of Christ while this troublesome world doth last, is now glorious, then shadowed, in one age in beauty, in another age kept under, under some Princes in peace, under others in persecution, yea sometimes so pressed with the extremity of the mali●…us, as that she is glad to remain retired into secret places, & not 〈◊〉 appear openly to the malignant, albeit she never is nor can be extinguished, but hath a continual being. Unto which it may be added, that since faith doth much consist 
d Heb. 11. 1.  of things which are not seen, & we believe the holy Catholic Church, as an Article of our faith, it may follow, that it need not ever be eminently visible, and apparently sensible unto us.  
17 For the better exemplification of this verity, it may be remembered what havoc was made by the heathen Roman Emperors, & their Deputies, against the flock of Christ, in the ten first persecutions. That in the Roman dominion there was scant any to be heard of who professed Christianity, but he was soon cut of by the sword, or otherwise. Did they in those times suffer any patent visibility of true profeslours, or when they once knew where they were, did they not forthwith labour to extirpate them? But in the days of Constantius, when the Arrian Heresy had once gotten the head, where in the world did there appear any sensible congregation maintaining the Orthodox belief? Hieromes testimony of those days was, 
e Adversus Luci●…rianos.  The whole world did sigh, & wondered that itself was Arrian. The words are but few, but they are to the purpose. So said Gregorius Presbyter, writing the life of Gregory Nazianzen, The sect of the Arrians had almost possessed all the coasts of the world, the power, & impiety of the Emperor ministering boldness unto it. The words of Constantius himself in 
f Theodor. Hist. Eccles. lib. 2. 16.  Theodoret, do give testimony unto this; neither doth Liberius the Roman Bishop say aught to the contrary. The speeches of the Arrian Emperor, against him & Athanasius are these. The whole world doth think that this is well. The whole world hath given sentence of his impiety. Thou alone dost embrace the friendship of that wicked man. And a little before that: Doth so great a part of the world reside in thee Liberius, that thou alone dost dare to come in aid to that wicked man, & disturb the peace of the universal world? Whereunto Liberius did not take exception, saying that the visible Church stood for him & Athanasius, but rather giveth another reason, to make good his being alone. Be it, that I am alone. Notwithstanding, for that, the cause of the faith is not the worse. For a great while agone, there were three only found, who would resist the King's commandment. Hear the Church for any external show was low brought: for if any body held it up, it was Athanasius, who then played lest in sight & durst not appear. For this Liberius who did for a time second him, did afterward shrink. He went at first into banishment in defence of the truth, but after that, he was so solicited & laid at by 
g Hieron. in Catalogue. script. Eccles.  Fortunatianus, that he relented & condescended to subscribe to the Arrian heresy, as Hierome witnesseth, who lived in that age, & was long conversant in Rome, & therefore could better report what was the issue of Liberius his constancy, them some other who do relate it otherwise. What can be said for him, 
h De Pontifice Romano 4. 9  Bellarmine hath; but yet enforced by the evident testimony of Athanasius, Hilary, & Hierome, he confesseth so much as I have here set down: but cover it he would, that he only consented to the external act of subscribing, but remained in heart Orthodox. Why should it then be a marveil●…, if in process of time, Antichrist growing to greater strength, the Church should be in covert? It is no more than often times fell out under the jewish Synagogue, and hath been exemplified to have been since among the Christians, & was so evidently foretold before. In so much that by the example of the 
i Apoc. 12. 6.  woman, it cannot be the true Church, unless it should be hid in the wilderness: Which while our Popish teachers deny to agree to their Romish Church, but profess that it hath ever been in sight, they themselves do by a consequent proclaim, that they are not the pure & undefiled flying woman, but another painted harlot & strumpet. The true Church is for a time out of sight in the wilderness: but so, say they, was their Church never, and therefore, will they nill they, their Church is not the true Church.  
18 And here to the end that the slanderous calumniation of our Adversaries, may the more be manifested to all those, who will not wilfully close their eyes against truth, I will a little show the vanity, and yet maliciousne●… of their objection, when they say, that there was 
k Campian Ration. 10. Q●…nti Evang pro fessores.  never any of our faith before the days of Luther, who in the year 1517. began for hi●… part to display the kingdom of Antichrist. Where I pray the Reader to consider, that the most pa●…t of those whom I shall ●…e, are Popish writers, & no way partially. flected toward us. We say then, that M. Luther was not the first broacher of those points, which he taught against Papistry, but as he did originally deduce them from the Scriptures, & out of the works of the ancient Fathers, so he did derive them also hereditarily from other, who immediately before him had taught the same doctrine, & left it both in books & the hearts of men recommended unto him. As principal parties herein, I name john Hus & Hierome of prague, & all such as were their scholars, in or about Bohemia: who before Luther's time oppugned the belief of the Church of Rome▪ and their profession was not extinguished until his dates, howsoever it before had been mainly assaulted: If we could learn this no where else, yet Francis Guicciardine, an Italiam & Florentine Historiographer would inform us of it, who 
l Histor. l. 13.  writing of the year 1520, saith plainly that Luther did set abroad the Heresies (as he termeth them) of the Bohemians, & he nameth there Hus & Hierome, as former divulgers of the same. And Petrus 
m In vita Wenceslai.  Messias a Spaniard, therein agreeth with him, who mentioning the opinions of Hus & the Bohemians, saith, they were the seed of those errors, which were afterward in Germany; alluding to the doctrine of Luther. There is no man whose testimony in this behalf may be of more worth, than johannes Cochleus: first because he wrote a large story 
n Historia Chochle●… de Hassit●…s.  of purpose concerning the Hassites, and therefore by his long search, reading, & writing, in that argument, may be presumed to know as much as any. Secondly because it may be well imagined, that he would feign nothing to do Luther good, in as much as he also wrot●… a 
o Histor, de acts & script. M. Lutheri  volume purposely against that worthy servant of God, intending to rip up his whole life, from year to year, & to censure all his works. Yet this enemy of his, in the story of the Hussites, doth plentifully satisfy us about the matter now in question. One 
p Lib. 〈◊〉.  where he telleth us, that Hus did slay souls for an hundred years together, neither yet doth he cease to slay them by the second death. Within an hundred years after him came M. Luther, according as the said john Hus did 
q Io. Foxus in Histor. Ecclesiastic.  prophecy not long before his death. And when it is added, that yet he doth not cease to slay, it is manifest that his doctrine remained till the days of Cochlues. In another 
r Cochl. lib. 2.  place he relateth, that Luther did stir up seditions in Germany, by the books of the Hussites. Afterward he calleth those, who were in Germany in his time, 
s Ibidem.  new●… Hussites. And again, Hus did so rent the unity of the Church, that unto this day there remaineth a pitiful division in Bohemia. He proceedeth in the same matter 
s Lib. 3.  elsewhere, saying, that the people of Germany are now by Luther partakers of the heresies of Hus and Hierome. One sort of the followers of this john Hus, did call themselves Thaborites, and these were they, who most dissented of all other from the doctrine of Rome. Of these he speaketh thus: 
t Lib. 8.  Unto this day remaineth the sect of the Thaborites, in many places of Bohemia and Moravia, under the ●…ame of Picards and Waldenses. Lastly the same Cochleus in the year 1534. doth wish, that 
u Lib. 12.  he may see the remainders or leave of the Hussites to return to the Church, and the Germans to cast out all new sects. What can be more evident, then that the doctrine of john Hus was sensibly and apparently continued somewhere, even till the days of Martin Luther? Unto which may be added, that whereas Luther began to show himself but in the year 1517. that very year was 
u Centur. 16. lib. 1. 20.  ended the Council of Lateran, held at Rome, & finished by Pope Leo the tenth. And there consultation was had of reforming the manners of the Church, and of recalling the Bohemians to the unity of the Church of Rome.  
19 And as these testimonies do convince, that the Christian confession of Hus was not extinguished at the coming of M. Luther, so may there be good reason assigned why it did so long continued, in as much as it was embraced by many, & earnestly maintaned even unto the death. When Hus begun first to preach, the people which used handy 
x Cochl. lib. 1.  crafts, did with great desire hear his sermons, and did read the Scriptures, being turned by him into their mother tongue; so that they could dispute with the Priests: which the very women were able to do; yea & one woman did make a book. Not long after, three of the 
y Ibidem.  scholars of this preacher, did affirm that the Pope 
z johan. ●…3.  then living was Antichrist, who had proclaimed a Croisado against a Christian King; that was Ladislaus King of Naples, then infesting the lands of the Church of Rome. These three persons were martyred for this speech, & took their death patiently. In small process of time this doctrine so multiplied, that as Onuphrius hath, 
a In tabula Concil. ante Platinae Histor.  the Council of Constance was called principally for two things; the one was against the Hussites, the other to take away the sehisme between the Popes. These of likelihood grew great, that now a general Council was called against them. Neither did the people only agree in faith with john Hus, but the Nobles of Bohemia stood apparently for him, in so much that they sent two 
b Io. Fox. in Concil. Constant. Historia.  several & solemn supplications to the Council at Constance in his behalf. And when these their requests were neglected, & john Hus & Hierome of prague (contrary to the emperors safe conduct given to the former of them) were burnt, the Nobles 
c Cochl l. 4.  of Bohemia did mightily murmur against the fathers of the Council, insomuch that Sigismond the Emperor to give them satisfaction on his behalf, did write unto them, excusing himself touching the death of these two men, & laying the fault upon the Council. But this gave not contentment to the Bohemians, now rob of their principal pastor, but being moved at the perfidiousness of those at Constance, they assembled themselves together to the number of 
d Ibidem.  thirty thousand, & in the fields, upon three hundred tables erected for that purpose, they received the Eucharist in both kinds. Afterward they rushing into the Churches & Monasteries, did break down the Images there. It was not long after, but that under johannes Zisca, a noble & victorious warrior, these Hussites grew to be of soldiers 
e Lib. 5. & Petr Messias in Sigismundo.  forty thousands in one army, who got into their hands the castle of prague the chief city of Bohemia. Then not long after did Pope Martin the 5. publish a Croisado against these whom he called Heretics, promising remission of their sins to such as could destroy them. Notwithstanding, these hated people did still prosper, getting many victories under Procopius & other Captains, but especially under Zisca, who was of that dexterity and felicity in his wars, as that Cochleus almost amazed at his strange success, saith, that 
f Lib. 5.  scant any history of the Greeks' or Hebrews or Latins, doth mention such a General as Zisca was. He built a new city as a refuge for his men, & called it. Thabor, whereof divers embracing the doctrine of Hus were afterward called Thaborites. A 
g Lib. 6  second time time did Pope Martin proclaim a Croisado against them, granting remission of sins to all, who did either fight or contribute money against them. Upon which there were at one time forty 
h Ibidem.  thousand German horsemen gathered to destroy them: but such was the terror of their name, that upon the approaching to them, the horsemen of their own accord turned their backs & fled. The Popish Auctor saith that there was in this some secret judgement of God, but he thinketh the cause of their ill success was, that they had Bishops & Priests to their leaders & Cap taines. By this time came on the Council of Basil, which as 
i In tabula ante Platinam.  Onuphrius saith was held against the Hussites. This showeth that they were many; which may also appear, in that the Fathers at Basil, did by an indulgence grant to the Bohemians this dispensution, that contrary to the Act of the 
k Sess. 13.  Council of Constance, they might receive the Eucharist both in bread & wine. Genebrard, who was ever a true servant to the Pope, 
l Genebrard lib. 4 Chronograph.  confesseth so much: but addeth withal, that the cup was permitted unto them, because that always before had been their custom so to communicates yet saith he, all was on that condition, that they should not find fault with the contrary use, nor sever themselves from the Catholic Church in other rites and doctrines. Cochleus 
m Lib. 7.  nameth no such condition. Nay, to show that simply and directly it was yielded unto them, he reporteth that the Legates of the Council of Basile, did thus expound that which was concluded in the Bohemians behalf, 
n Lib. 8.  The Council doth permit the Eucharist under both kinds, not tolerating it only as a thing evil, as to the jews was permitted a bill of divorce, but so, that by the authority of Christ & his Church it is lawful, & profitable to the worthy receivers. Where, is it likely, that unless the Bohemians now after Husses death had been a strong party, the Antichristian rabble would have yielded to their importunity, so directly against the Canon of the next precedent Council? Indeed the 
o Ibidem.  Emperor Sigismond did afterward take a course to lessen their number, when he sent many of them into Hungary against the Turks, that there they might either conquering win to him victories, or being conquered themselves so be destroyed and perish. He who list to see more concerning the multitude of these Professors, let him but look on 
p Hist. Boh●…▪ ca 35. & cap 50. Epist. 130.  divers places in the works of Aeneas Silvius, who was afterward Pope by the name of Pius 2. & he shall find him reporting of his own knowledge (as travailing himself into Bohemia) that they were many, and very earnest also in their Religion.  
20 If here it should be replied, that these perhaps were base people and of the vulgar, who thus followed john Hus; but men of learning & knowledge, or persons of authority they had none to join with them; the course of the story will easily clear the same, & show that they had both learned Pastors, & great Magistrates, who believed as they believed, & stood wholly with them. Of what literature H●… himself was, is evident by his works yet remaining, & by his personal withstanding the whole Council of Constance. And what learning, what eloquence, what memory, all admirable, were in Hierome of prague, as also with what singular patience he took his death, is most significantly delivered in an 
q Ad Leonardum 〈◊〉.  Epistle of Poggius, who as an eyewitness beheld him, & seemed to be much affected with the singular parts of the man. Which noble testimony of that worthy Poggius is acknowledged by 
r Lib 3.  Cochleus. While these two lived, there were divers 
s Lib 2.  priests, & 
s Lib. 1.  preachers, which agreed in their Doctrine, & in their Sermons reproved the Popish Clergy for their Simony, keeping of Concub●…, avarice, riot, & secular-like pride. But after the death of those two famous servants of God, their 
t Lib. 4.  followers got to them a Bishop, who was Suffragan to the Archbishop of prague, and by him they put into holy Orders as many Clerks as they would. Which the Archbishop took so ill, that he suspended his Suffragan. But it was not long before that 
u Lib. 5.  Conradus the Archbishop himself, became a Hussite also, as the Author calleth him. Under this Conradus as precedent of the assembly, these Hussites held a Council at prague in the year 1421. & there they compiled a Confession of their faith, This Cause did the said Archbishop, & many Barons of Bohemia afterward stiffly maintain, and complained against the Emperor Sigismond, for offering wrong to those of their Religion. 
u Ibidem.  Alexander also the Duke of Lituania did give these Hushtes' aid, which moved Pope Martin the 5, to write unto him in this sort, Know that thou couldst not give thy faith to heretics which are the ●…ors of the holy faith, & that thou dost sin deadly of thou shalt keep it, because there cannot be any fellowship of a believer with an insidel. Thus did the virtuous Pope write. In 
x Lib. 8.  process of time there grew a parley, between Sigismond the Emperor & the Bohemians. There among the Compacts this was one, that the Bishops should promote to holy Orders the Bohemians, even Hussites, which were of the University of prague. And they might well deserve to be reputed University men; for Cochleus himself witnesseth, that the Priests of the Thaborits were skilled in arg●…g, & exercised in the holy Scripture. 
y Lib. 10.  Rokizana one of them did undertake to dispute, with Capistranus a great & learned Papist. By that time that the year 1453. was come, Aeneas Silvius doth complain that the kingdom of Bohemia was wholly 
z Lib. 11.  governed by heretics. Now all the Nobility, all the Commonalty is subject to an heretic. That was one George or Gyrziko, Governor of the kingdom of Bohemia under king Lad●…slaus. But when Lad●…slaus was dead, this 
a Lib. 12.  George himself was by the Nobles and the People chosen King of that country. And continuing the ancient profession of his Religion, about the year 1458, those of Uratislavia and Silesia do refuse to obey him as being an heretic. Notwithstanding Pope Pius the 2. then intending wars against though Turk, did by all means persuade them, that they should yield obedience to him. This George, saith the Author, was borne and brought up in the heresy of the Hussites. Now when Pope Pius did interpose himself, as a mediator between this King and his Subjects, George did require of the Pope, that he might keep the Compacts agreed upon at Basill, in behalf of the Bohemians. And when 
b Ibidem.  Pius would not yield thereunto, the king calleth together the Estates of his kingdom, and protesteth that he would live & die in those Compacts, & so did also the Nobles which were Hussits. This was done at prague in the year 1462. This resoluteness of his, caused that Pope to tolerate many things in him, but Paul. 2. who succeeded in that See of Rome, did excommunicate that king, and set up a Croisado against him. Also he gave to Mathias the king of Hungary, the title of king of Bohemia. 
c Apud Platin.  Onuphrius in the life of Paulus 2, saith that the Pope did excommunicate him, & deprive him of his kingdom. Indeed for seven years this George and Mathias did war for it, and Mathias got from him Moravia and Silesia, and a good part of the kingdom of Bohemia. Vratislavia also and some other Provinces and cities, did put themselves in subjection of Mathias. Yet did not George deal hardly with the Papists which were at prague, but in his greatest extremity, did use both the advice and aid of many Nobles of the Popish belief. At length after the continuance of war for seven years, 
d Cochl. lib. 12.  Mathias concludeth a peace with king George, both against the will of the Pope and the Emperor. And then this king was content, to ask of the Pope an absolution from the excommunication, some Princes being mediators for him in that respect. But before the Agents could return from Rome, the king died in the year of our Lord, 1471. By this story it is manifest, that both noble and learned of high account, were of that Christian belief, which john Hus taught, and were contented to adventure all things which they had in the world, for the maintenance of the same.  
21 Perhaps here it may be asked; but how shall we know that john Hus and his followers, did embrace that Religion which is now professed in England? We find in Aeneas Silvius some opinions of theirs, which peradventure will scant be reputed currant among all English Protestants. He rehearseth these four of theirs, 
e Histor. Bohem. ca 50.  That they would receive the Sacrament in both kinds; that Civil dominion is inhibited to Clergy men: that preaching of the words was to be permitted to all men: that public crimes are in no sort to be tolerated. I answer, truth it is that he there mentioneth only those, & whither he relateth them truly or no, it may be doubted, as anon I shall show, by laying open the custom of the enemies of the Gospel, in mis-reporting their doctrine. But elsewhere he delivereth other opinions of theirs, as 
f Epist. 130.  against the Supremacy of the Pope, against Purgatory, against Invocation of Saints, and such like matters. If we return to Cochleus who was best acquainted with their matters, we shall find much more. As thus, 
g Cochl. Hist. lib. 1.  Hus translated all the books of Canonical Scripture into the Bohemian tongue, & the people did most diligently read them. They would have the holy Scripture, to be the only judge in matters of Controversy. They held that all Bishops and Priests, are the successors of the Apostles. That not the Pope but Christ is the head of the Church, neither are the Cardinals the body, but all that believe in Christ. That the Pope is not a member of the Church, but of the Devil and his synagogue. That one Pope was a woman. Yea Hus did preach, that the Pope is an abomination, and Antichrist. Also 
h Lib. 2.  he called the General Council at Constance, the synagogue of Satan. Another of his Articles was, 
i Lib. 3.  The Pope is the beast in the Apocalypse. His scholars after his death, broke down the 
k Lib. 4.  Images in Churches and Monasteries. Yea Zisca did cast down all the 
l Lib. 5.  Churches, which were dedicated to the Virgin Mary, or to any Saint, as if it were lawful to build a Church, only to almighty God. In his time the Professors began to be distinguished into two companies. The one of them did not so much dissent from the Pope, as the other. Those which in fewer matters differed from the Bishop of Rome, retained still the name of Hussites; they which disagreed in more, were called Thaborites, of Thabor the City which Zisca built for them. And these were the greater number and the stronger. There is in Cochleus, a 
m Professio fidei antiquae, etc.  Confession of faith by one johannes de Pr●…bram a Bohemian, who was but a Hussite and not well affected to the Thaborites, because he accounted them as a kind of Precisians or Puritans, in comparison of himself. Yet this more mild man doth wish and beg of God, to see a reformation of the Church, that there might be redressed, 
n Artic. 57  Simonyes through all the world most detestable, most wicked setting to sale of all Sacraments, most insatiable avarice, most impudent fornications, most putrefied uncleannesses, rottennesses most abominable, Co●…ubines-keeping most polluted, manners most dissolute, most corrupt gestures & behaviours, harlotry every where too too much multiplied in the Clergy, wherewith alas the whole earth lieth corruptly filthy. Also the Lucifer-like pride of the Clergy, which is exalted above God, their dainty and daily banquets, their abundant riches and rich abundance, their disquietness most litigions, being the chief root of the quarrels of the world, their curiosity most vai●…, their most unseemly pomp of apparel, their conversation most secular-like, their most open transgression of all the commandments of God, their most remiss care of souls, their most negligent regard of the word of God. This he saith for himself: but concerning the Thaborites who indeed came nearer to the purity of the Gospel, he witnesseth of them, that they held, 
o Articul. 5●….  That material bread doth re●…ine in the Sacrament●… that the Saints now triumphant are not to be called upon: that there is no Purgatory: that no suffrages, or prayers, are to be made for the dead●…: Also they allow not of the holy da●…es almost of all the Saints, nor of the Eves or Uig●…s that go●… before them; Nor the consecrations of visible things, as salt, oil, holy-water, bells and such like. They have a s●…bismaticall celebration of their Masses, that is, a several sort of Church-service, and refuse the most celebrsou●… service of the Churc●…, and th●… r●…es and administrations of almost all the Sacraments. Let our Papists now speak whether they & we do not agree in the same doctrine altogether. For I doubt not but they, who had received so much grace from God, as to see all these things, were also partakers of farther knowledge in the mysteries of Salvation.  
22 While I have spoken thus largely concerning these good Christians in Bohemia, let not any man imagine that Christ's faithful flock was restrained within the compass of that country, so that godly men were else nowhere to be found. For certain it is that between the time of john Hus, who was burnt in the year 1415. & the first standing up of Martin 
p An. 1517.  Luther, were very many other, who in that darkness did see what belonged to the light of the Gospel. Among these may be reckoned, as very memorable, the Waldenses, who about the year 1508. do make 
q Responsio ad Doctorem Augustinun.  an answer in de●…ce of themselves, & therein as they testify that they then had Priests of their own, so they speak against Purgatory, and most op●…ly against Transubstantiation. The same, touching Transubstantiation, they do in a 
r Waldensium Confessio in fasciculo ●…erum expetend. & ●…ugiend.  Confession of theirs, where also they impugn Adoration of the Eucharist. There also they name the Prelates vnsav●…ry salt, & avouch that the execrable naughtiness which was in them, by the instinct of the Devil, did drive them away from the Sea of Rome. For the Papists in their Sermon●… did call one another schismatics. heretics, sacrilegious, false Prophets, ravening wolves, the beast and whore in the Revelation. Of 
s Sleidan. Lib. 16.  these there were many in one part of France, who time out of mind had refused to bear the yoke of the Pope, and therefore in the days of Francis the first, king of France, by a bloody decree of that king, but by the execution of one Minerius a most cruel person, Merin●…ol and Cabriers with some other villages about them, were sacked and destroyed, men, women and children being slain. Yea divers of them being stripped stark naked first, and then murdered, and forty poor women being burned in a barn. I may add unto these, many worthy men here and there dispersed, where-of all cried out against the Church of Rome, and desired a Reformation, and many of them apprehended, and delivered to other the true meane●… of justification, which is the nearest point of Salvation. The 
s Lucas O●…iand. l. 〈◊〉. c. 8.  Author of the sixteenth century nameth about the year one thousand five hundred and somewhat after, (but yet before Luther) Baptista M●…ntuanus; and Franciscus P●…cus, Earl of Mira●…dula, both which much inveighed against the Clergy, and their whole practice. Also one Doctor K●…serspergius, another called johannes H●…lten, a third named Doctor Andrea's Proles, and Sava●…orola, all groaning under the burden of those times. The Oration of 
t Oratio ad Leonem. 10  Picus in the Council of Laterane is extant: where besides his most bitter taxing of the filthy behaviour of the Clergy, he useth these words. Piety is almost su●…ke into superstition. How Mantu●… doth every where pay the Romanists, may appear to those who read his works. But one place of him I will 
u Calamit●… cum. 3.  name.  
— Petrique domus polluta fluente  
Marcescit luxu, (nulla hic arcana revelo  
Non ignota loquor, liceat vulgata refer:  
Sic urbes populique ferunt, ea fama per omnem  
jam vetus Europam) mores exirpat honestos:  
Sanctus ager scurris, venerabilis ara cyaedis  
Servit, honorandae Diuûm Ganymedibus ades.  
Quid muramur opes, recidivaque surgere tectat  
Thuris odorat●… globulos & cinnama vendit  
Mollis Arabs, Tyrij vestes: venalia nobis  
Temple, sacerdotes, altaria, sacra, corona,  
Ignis, thura, preces, coelum est venale, Deusque.  
Some of them, I English thus.  
Priest's land now jesters vile doth serve: The Altars bawds maintain.  
Of holy Churches of the Gods, lewd Ganymeds' make their gain,  
Why do we woder that their wealth, and houses fallen do 〈◊〉  
Sweet frankincense and cinnamon are the only merchandise  
Of the Arabian; and but clothes the Tyrians use to sell:  
But with us Churches, Altars, Priests, yield money very well.  
Things hallowed, crowns, fire, frankincense, the prayers which we make,  
Yea heaven, yea God, are saleable, if we may money take.  
The opinions of Savanarola against Popery are many, & for them (howsoever it be otherwise 
u ●…uicciard. Lib. 3.  coloured) he was burnt. In the matter of free justification he is 
x In psa. 51.  clear. And the same is written also of 
y Catalogue. test verit. lib. 19  Trit●…ius another learned man, who lived at that time. How in England Christ had in all these times professors of the truth, I shall have occasion to show anon, when I come to speak of john wickliff.  
23 In the mean while I shall not do amiss, to mention some other, who were between the days of john Hus and Martin Luther. A special oppugner of the Papacy was that learned Laurentius Valla, a Patritius of Rome, and Canon of Saint john of Laterane there. He wrote a treatise of purpose against the 
z Contra 〈◊〉 donationem.  forged Donation of Constantine. He pronounceth of his own experience that the Pope himself doth make war against peaceable people, & soweth discord between Cities and Princes. The Pope doth both thirst after other men's riches, and swalloweth up his own. He maketh gain of not only the Commonwealth, but the state Ecclesiastical and the holy Ghost. The later Popes do seem to labour this, that look how much the ancient Popes were wise and holy, so much they will be wicked & foolish. He lived about the year 1420. & for the freeness of his speech and pen, was by the Pope driven into exile. About the same time lived archdeacon Nicolaus de 〈◊〉, who rebuked 
a De Annatis non sol▪ vendis.  many things in the Ecclesiastical state, and spoke excellently in the matter of General Counsels, and their circumstances, as 
b Ration. 9  hereafter may be declared. Petrus de Aliaco Cardinal of Cambray, gave a tract to the Council of Constance, touching the 
c De Reformatione Eccl●….  reformation of the Church. There doth he reprove many notable abuses of the Romanists, and giveth advice how to redress them. 
d Cap. 3.  There should not be multiplied, saith he, such variety of Images and pictures in the Churches. There should not be so many holidays. There should not so many new Saints be Canonised. Apocryphal writings should not be read in the Churches on holidays. 
e Cap. 4.  Such ●…umerositie and variety of Religious persons is not expedient. There are so many orders of begging Friars, that their state is burdensome to men, hurtful to hospitals and to the poor. Few do now study ' Divinity for the abuse of the Church of Rome, which hath despised Divines. All now turn to the Law and to Arts of gain. He saith, that it was then a proverb, The Church is come to that estate, that it is not worthy to be ruled but by reprobates. He hath very much more, and in the end concludeth, that 
f Cap. 6.  As there were seven thousand, who had not bowed to Baal, so it is to he hoped, that there be some which desire the reformation of the Church. Imagine whither this Cardinal, if he had found some company to have joined with him, would not have said much more. About that time lived Leonardus Aretinus, whose little book 
g In hypocritas libellus.  Against Hypocrites, is worth the reading. So is the 
h Oratio ad cleium Coloniensem.  Oration of Antonius Cornelius Lynnichanus, laying open the lewd lubricity of Priests in his days. So doth he detect many abuses and errors, who wrote the 
i Decen gravamina Ger maniae.  Ten Grievances of Germany: but those who compiled the hundred Grievances of the German Nation, do discover many more. Finally he who list to see farther, that God even in those dead days, had divers servants, who by more than a glimce did see the truth, & desired yet more plentifully to be instructed in Religion, let him read the 
k Lib. 19  Catalogus testium veritatis lately set out, and there he shall find diverse whom I have not named.  
24 By this time I trust it is manifest, how false a slander that of the Papists is, that before the days of Martin Luther there was never any man of our Religion. Till the time of the Council of Constance, this case is cleared. And beyond that, it is as easy to show, that john Hus and Hierome of prague, had their immediate antecessours in witnessing the faith of Christ. For they were instructed and much helped, by the books of john wickliff an English man, and therefore saith Platina, as 
l In joh. 24.  sectatours of wickliff, they were condemned in the Council of Constance. Aeneas Silvius showeth the means how those Bohemians came to know the doctrine of wickliff; he saith thus: 
m Histo Bohem ca 35.  He who first raised up the opinions of the Hussites, had them from Oxford, carrying thence into Bohemia Wiclefs books De Realibus Vniversalibus. Cochleus who by his good will would be taken for a vehement defender of Popery, giveth yet a larger testimony. For he saith 
n Histor. de Hussitis, li. 1.  that as a Bohemian brought first into Bohemia wickliff▪ book De Realibus Vniversalibus, so there was afterward one P●ter Paine a scholar of Wiclefs, who after the death of his Master, came also into Bohemia, and brought with him Wiclefs books, which were in quantity as great at Saint Austin's works. 
o Ibidem.  Many of these books did Hus afterward translate into their mother tongue. In plain terms after this, the Author delivereth it, that 
p Lib. 2.  the Hussites and Thaborites were branches of wickliff. And in the same book, Hus did commit spiritual fornication with many strangers, with the Wiclefists, the Dulcinists, etc. And in the next he avoucheth, that 
q Lib. 3.  Hus and Hierome took their heresies from wickliff. And once again he termeth the Protestant Germans 
r Lib. 6.  new Wiclefists. What an opinion of this man john Hus had, may be fully seen by that wish of his, wherein he prayed 
s Lib. 2.  that he might there be, where the soul of wickliff was. Now what wickliff did teach, may be easily gathered, if by nothing else, yet by the deadly hatred which the Romanists did carry toward him. The 
s Session. 8.  Council of Constance did define him to be an Heretic, long after his death, and commanded that his bones should be taken up and burnt. Also 
t Cochl. li. 1.  Pope john the 23. in a General Council at Rome, did before that time condemn him for an heretic, which the Hussites did but laugh at. But no man had a harder conceit of him then Cochleus, who sticketh not to affirm that 
u Lib. 2.  he thinketh the torments of wickliff are greater in hell, than those of judas or Nero. If God Almighty had no better opinion of him, the man were in an ill case. But the best is, this choleric Critic is not the judge of all the world. He was angry be●●ke in behalf of Transubstantiation, concerning which he citeth this Article of wickliff, There was never a greater heresy, then that which putteth the Accident without a Subject in the Eucharist. But he might have named more points, wherein that holy man did differ from the Church of Rome. The 
u Session. 8.  Council of Constance picketh out five and forty Articles of his Positions, which the learned Reader may find there. Yet doubtless many of them are falsely reported, which is a matter common with enemies of the truth, to perver●…, and misconstrue, that so they may more freely defame. There was one 
x Respo. ad ●…8 artic. wickliff. In ●…ase rer ex▪ petend.  〈◊〉 Wideford, who took on him to answer eighteen Articles, said to be Wiclefs, whence a man may gather some of his doctrine. But that all things there laid against him were not true, may well be observed out of the same Answer, declaring that he had many things concerning wickliff, but only by 
y In fine Articul. 10.  fame & report; And 
z Virgil. Aeneid 4.  that is not the most certain Relater. What positions indeed he held, may be seen in Mr. Fox reporting his life & actions; as also in the 
a Lib. 18.  Catalogus Testium veritatis. And those who be not learned, may esteem of them, by the doctrine of john Hus before rehearsed, who by the testimony of the Papists themselves, as I have showed, maintained the opinions of wickliff.  
25 Now that this worthy champion, & preacher of the Gospel of jesus Christ, went not alone, but had many English men and women, who in his life time, & after his death, believed as he believed, & professed as he professed, is in the next place to be showed. Among the chief of his fautors were john of Gaunt, (as 
b Apolog. Hie●…arch. ca 1.  Parsons the jesuit confesseth) and Lord Henry Percy, the one of them Duke of Lancaster, the other Marshal of England. Master Fox citeth out of a 
c Ex Regist G. Courtney.  Register of the Archbishop of Canterbury, a Mandate mentioning that the Conclusions of wickliff, were preached in divers and sundry places of the Archishops Province, generally, commonly, and publicly. The same also is manifested by a letter of that Archbishop to the Bishop of London; and in a Monition directed to 
d Ad Cancellar. Ox.  Oxford, where it is said that certain Conclusions heretical and erroneous, were generally & commonly preached and published, in divers places of the Province of Canterbury. There be extant also 
e Ad 〈◊〉 Cant. & Cancel. Oxon.  letters of King Richard the second, directly signifying so much. But there is nothing which may more amply testify the spreading of his doctrine, than an Act of Parliament in the beginning almost of that young kings days, where it is related, that there were 
f Anno 5. Rich 2. ca 5  divers preaching dayelie, not only in Churches and Churchyards, but also in markets, f●…res, and other open places, where a great congregation of people is, ●…verse sermons containing Heresies and ●…etorious errors. This putteth me in mind of a written book which once 
g In manu Mr. Gu●…el. Wirley.  I saw, being a Chronicle compiled by a Monk of Leicester Abbay, who writing of the time of the said K. reporteth at large, that the people in fairs & markets, & riding by the way, & almost every where, would talk of the Scripture, and reprove the customs of that time, as also the Priests, to the exceeding great trouble and offence of the Clergy. This they might the rather do out of the word of God, because the Scriptures were then translated into English, as may be seen by divers copies written and remaining to this day, supposed to be so turned by UUiclf. And it is very probable, that in Leicestershire there were many of those, of whom the Mon●…e Leicestrensis spoke, since at Lu●…erworth a town in th●…t Coun●…e, john UUicl●…f was beneficed. But the greatest part of this learned man's abode, was at the first in the University of Oxford, where he was both a Doctor and Reader of Divinity, and therefore is to be conceived, to have many learned men partaking with him in his opinions. 
h In fine. R. Edward 3.  Master Fox saith (out of the Chronicle of Saint Albane●…) that he had a benefice in Oxford, of which he was deprived by Simon 〈◊〉 Archbishop of Canterbury. It may be this was nothing else but the Mastership, or Chief Governors place in Ba●…oll College, which I am persuaded that he had, since there are yet two ancient writings in the Treasury of that 
i In Archivis Colleg. Ba●…ol.  College, (which I have seen) who were made in the name of john Wiclif Master of that house, and that in the days of King Richard the second. But while he lived, he had so many favourers in that University, as that 
k Vide Io. Fox in vita Wiclif.  Master Robert 〈◊〉 Uice-chancellour, and the two Proctors took part with him, As also Nicolas Herford, Philip 〈◊〉 and john Ash●…on, preachers and Bachelors of Divinity, and grew into great question for his cause, where R●…ington, in the end being Doctor, did slip from him. Yea so far was his doctrine there spread, that Pope 
l Annot. R. Richard●…. 〈◊〉.  Grego●…ie the eleventh in the year 1●…78. did direct his Bull to the University of Oxford, against the doctrine and Articles of that learned man, even Rome itself ringing of his opinions in that University. Neither did his followers die, when he himself died, but long 
m Sub Rege Henry.  after that, Pope Gregory the 12. did direct down another Bull to Oxford, against Wiclif, in which he useth the same words, which his Predecessor had, that is to say, that Wiclif did follow●… the doctrine of Marsilius of Pa●…a, and of john of Gand●…ne of unworthy memory, which speech is worth the marking to show, that this man also had his Predecessors. 
n Lib. secund. in literis Reg. Henry. 4.  The copy of this later Bull is to be seen in the book which that worthy lover of Antiquities Master Hare gave to our University. Where also is to be seen, in the Constitutions of a Provincial Council celebrated at Oxford, a sharp Inquisition decreed by Thomas Arondell Archbishop of Canterbury against all even the heads of Colleges and halls, and others suspected of Lo●…ardy and Wiclevisme. They might well suppose that the students of that place were entertainers of such doctrine, since about that 
o An. 1406. Octobr. 〈◊〉.  very time, a testimonial 
p In operibus john Hus.  was given in their Congregation house, under seal, in favour of john Wiclif, where these words are, among other, GOD forbidden that our Prelates should have condemned a man of such honesty for an Heretic etc. And yet in the Council of Constance he was condemned for such a one, forty years after that he was dead and buried. But all would not serve, to extirpate his books or memory out of our University, but even in the days of 
q An. 1476.  King Edward the fourth there were new letters directed to the Governors of that place, by the King himself, to make search for his books and to burn them. I have in my custody a fair ancient Record of that University, which by means of a good friend I have gained back to this place, And therein is a solemn letter, directed from the Convocation of Doctors and Masters to the King, testifying that according to their sovereigns commandment, they had with accurate diligence, searched out the books and tracts of Wiclif himself and of Reginald Peacock, and had burnt them. So much ado was it, and that in so long a space, to suppress the head whereunto Wiclif●… doctrine was grown, in the famous University of Oxford.  
26 How elsewhere in this kingdom, his Positions were spread, may be easily collected out of Geffrey Chaucer, who dying about the year 1400. may rightly be supposed to have lived while john UUictef lived. This Chaucer who wanted neither write nor learning, did at 
r In the Ploughman's tale.  large paint out the pride, lascivious, vicious and intolerable behaviour of the Pope, Cardinals, and Clergy, even applying the name of Antichrist divers times unto the Roman Bishop, and saying that there were many in those days of the speakers mind, yea finding fault with their faith, as well as with their manners. The whole tale is well worthy the reading: but I will cite only a few verses.  

Peter 
s The Apostle.  was never so great a ●…oole  
To leave his kaye 
s Which Pa●…sts say he hath of heaven gate.  with such a 
t As the Pope.  lorell,  
Or take such cursed such a tool  
He was advised nothing well:  
I trow they have the kaye of hell,  
The●… master is of that place Martial;  
For there they dressen him to dwell  
And with false Lucifer there to fall.  
They been as proud as Lucifarre,  
As angry and as envious;  
From good faith they been full far,  
In covetise they been curious:  
To catch cat ta●…le as covetous  
As bound, that for hunger well yall;  
Ungodly and ungracious  
And needily such falsehood shall foul fall.   
This and a hundred times as much, he expresseth in a simple Ploughman's person, as evidently inferring, that the husbandman and meanest country body of that time, by the reading or hearing of the word of God, could tell what was right and religious, and what otherwise, yea and complain of the blindness, and impierie of the Romanistes in that Age. But if we would be advertised, what even layemen in those times could do let us look into the Declarations of Walter Bruit, who wa●… in question for his opinions, before the Bishop of Hereford in the year 1393. and gave up a little book, containing those things which he maintained. The true 
u Ex Registro Episcopi Hereford.  copy of that treatise is yet extant, and deserveth to be read. There we may find these and the like positions; That bread remaineth in the Sacrament after Consecration: that the Pope is Antichrist: that nothing is to be believed but what may be confirmed out of the Scriptures: that the Pope is the Idol of desolation sitting in the Temple of God: that Antichrist is not to come of the Tribe of Dan: neither only to reign three years 〈◊〉 a half: that the City, Apoc. 17. is Rome: that our justification is freely by faith alone: that the doctrine of the Pope differeth from that of Christ that miracles are no assurance of truth that men are not rashly to be reputed Saints: that the Pope hath not power beyond other Bishops: neither is the head of the Church: that Papists mistake the keys of binding and losing: that Infants dying before Baptism are not therefore damned: that Auricular confession is not prescribed in the Scripture: that the Canon Law is ill grounded: that the Pope deceiveth men in his Pardons: that Absolution is to be sought at the hands of God only: that the Priests use vain prayers in the Mass: that Exorcisms & holy-water are unlawful: that Priests do sin who bargain to sing for the souls of men departed: that Religious men and women are the devourers of widows houses: that selling of Orders and Dirges is nought: that the Pope is the beast with the two horns like the Lamb, while he challengeth the double sword: that he seeketh to be worshipped as God: that Dux Cleri doth make up the number 666: that worshipping of Images is Idolatry: that temporal goods may be taken from the Clergy offending. There was a great Papist one William Wideford whom before I mentioned, who giveth testimony to this Treatile of Brute, whom he calleth Waltherus Britta in Latin: and writing against 
u Contra 18 articul. Wiolif.  Wiclif, maketh 
y In articulo 11. & 12.  twice mention of a book of his own, sent to the Bishop of Hereford (D●…num Ersordense●… he calleth him) in confutation of the book of Walter Britte.  
27 While I wr●…e these things, I cannot but think upon the audacious absurdness of my ignorant Doctor, who blusheth not to utter, that is is 
y Ration. 1.  most manifest, that all in England were Papists without exception, from the first Christening thereof, until this age of King Henry the eight. He is doubtless an honest man, and worthy to be trusted on his word. It is not only manifest, but most manifest, not that the greatest part, but all, yea & be●… shall not be scanted, all w●…ut ●…ption were ●…apistes etc. Were john Wiclif●… bones burnt because he was a Papist? & were the Bul●… of the Pope against him for that cause? and were the Archbishop Arondel●… Cost●… against his followers so severe, because they were Papists. The man is h●… to be pitied for his simplicity. A man may know by the laws, Proclamations, letters & proceed by the State against some as against Heretics, As also by the Records of Bishops yet extant, & by the manifold executions & burnings afterward, that even in that deep time of ignorance, England did give most noble testimony of Christ's truth against Popery, even so far as to the fiery trial. If the Christian Reader peruse the Ecclesiastical History of Mr. Fox, he shall find how 
z 〈◊〉 An. 1400. sub K. Henry. 4.  before the Co●…, William Sa●… a Priest was burnt, & after him john Ba●…y, and that because they were Wiclevists o●… L●… (as they the ●…ed them) and not because they were Papists. There are the reasons also and asseverations of P●…y and Thorpe against Popery, with divers other matters. And is it ●…ot to be thought that the Heretics increased, when a ●…ynode 
a 〈◊〉 Sub Reg. Henric. 5.  was assembled in S●…. P●… Church at London, into the which ●…me 〈◊〉 Inquisito●…, who in a former Synod were appointed, to 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 the w●…gs of W●…, wherein they found▪ 24●…. Conclusions, an which they supposed to be I●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the 〈◊〉 ●…eere of K. Henry the 〈◊〉 d●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ward the L. 〈◊〉 was ●…ge 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as 〈◊〉 had been a ●…de of Trai●…, but he was then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…ed H●…. So was o●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for his 〈◊〉 consumed to 〈◊〉. Not long●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, beside●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 
〈◊〉 Sub 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  Religion, 〈◊〉 and W●… two 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 followed afterward●… Neither ●…d ●…he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and of King 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 escape 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of sundry 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 CHRIST●… 〈◊〉 sake 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 profession of the ●…hy the particular stories of whom, may b●…●…ounde in the Author abou●… 〈◊〉 The Clergy of these times did bear much sway with their Princes, and left no means v●…ught, no stone vn●…ned, to keep up the dignity and pre-eminence of their Romish Hierarchy, and the superstitions Idolatry which then was in use. Now ●…in the reigns of all these Princes, so many were slaughtered for the testimony of a good conscience, how many weak brethren were there, who did not make open profession of their faith, and how many did there lie hid, divers of them in probability having confederates, and some of them being Priests, and therefore not unlikely to have learning, both to confirm themselves in the truth, and such other as heard them. Thus have I both in England and elsewhere brought up the doctrine of the Gospel, until the time of john wickliff, who flourished in the year, 1371.  
28 Hear it may please the Reader to remember, that the judgement (before cited) of ●…vo 
c Gregor. 11. & Gregor. 12.  Popes was that wickliff taught the doctrine of Marsilius of Padua, and of john of 〈◊〉. Of the later of these, there yet appeareth no monument written: But he joined in 
d Catalogue. test. verle. lib. 18.  opinion with the former. But as for Marsilius Patavinus, our Adversties cannot but acknowledge him to be a very learned man, after the measure of the age wherein he lived, which was in the year 1324. He written a 
e Defensor pacis.  book against the usurped power of the bishop of Rome: which argument he entered into, in behalf of the Emperor Lewis of Bav●…e, who was mightily laid at by three Popes successively. There the Author avoweth as right and just, the supreme authority of the Emperor, displaying the iniquity of the Pope's usurpation over Christian Princes and General Counsels. The book is worth the reading, to see whether all in times past, did allow of the Pope's doctrine and proceedings or not. His opinions are these▪ That the Pope is not superior to other Bishops, and much l●… the Emperor and civil Magistra●…. That thing as are to be decided by the ●…ure. Th●… 〈◊〉 men of the lai●… 〈◊〉 in Counsels. That the Clergy and Pope himself are to be subject to Magistrates. That the Church is the 〈◊〉 company of the faithful. That CHRIST is, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Church, and appointed 〈◊〉 to be 〈◊〉 Ui●…: That Priests may be ●…ryed. That Saint Peter was 〈◊〉 at Rome. That the Popish synagogue 〈◊〉 a d●… of thieves. That the doctrine of the P●… not to be followed, because it leadeth to everlasting destruct●…. In the time of this Marsilius, lived that noble Poet Danie, who written also a book against the Pope, 
f Petrus Messias in Ludovico.  C●… the Monarchy of the Emperor▪ but for taking part with Lewes of Bav●…ere, he was condemned for an heretic, and his book ●…hereticall. Then also written 
g Catal. test. verit. lib. 18.  Occam directly to the same purpose: but for his labour therein, and his large reproof of the Pap●…cie in other points, he was excommunicated by the roman Bishop, which he so much contemned, that he not unwillingly died under that sentence. About that time were here and there dispersed sundry godly men, who saw more than the common sort touching Religion. As 
h Ibid. ex Hen. de Erford.  Hay●… a Minorite, who frequently said in his Sermons, that the Church of Rome wat the where of Babylon, and that the Pope and Cardinals were mere A●…: which propositions were held somewhat before also, by 
i Ibidem.  Ger●… and Dulcinus, two learned men. This Du●… may be thought to have had many followers, since 
k Hist. Hussit. lib. 2.  Cochleus could say, that john Hus committed spiritual fornication with the W●…sts, and with the Dul●…nists. The same opinions concerning the Pope and Rome, did that rare man▪ 
l Epist. 20. & in Poesi Italica.  Franciscus Petrarche seem fully to embrace, as may appear to any who will read his works, howsoever Cardinal 
m In Append. ad lib. de Romano Poutif. c. 20  Ballarmine labour to make the world believe otherwise, being desirous to have us thinke●…, that Petrarch spoke not against the Pope, but some abuses in the Court of Rome. And to make it plain that it was not a slight conceit, or only in a few, that the Pope was 〈◊〉, and Rome was Babylon, Apocal. 17. God stirred up yet more in that age, who proclaimed the same in 〈◊〉. As 
n Genebr. Chronogr. l. 4. An 13●…7  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 B●… or ●…sis, who was a Mino●…, and for teaching so, was digged up after that he was deed, and his body by the sentence of Pope Clement the si●… was burnt. A few years after him did 
o Catal. te●… verit. lib. 18  〈◊〉 ●…es de R●…ssa, a Monk, teach the same doctrine, which as every man may guess doth 〈◊〉 the Papacy in every respect. 
p Academic. 〈◊〉. Christ. Clas. 15.  johannes G●… came not so fat: but saw in his age many horrible abuses of the Church of Rome, and in his writings spoke liberally of it. And it did bite deep, when 
q De auferibilitate Papae ab Ecclesia.  he disputed that the Pope might be taken safely away from the Church, and yet ●…o danger follow of it. But let us now go a little higher.  
29. I mentioned before how Cochleus saith, that john Hus did take his doctrine from the Wiclevists and the Dulcinists. Hear, I pray you, what he saith. 
r Hist. lib. 2.  H●… did commit spiritual fornication with many aliens, with the Wiclevists, the Dulcinists, with the Leonists, the Wal●…ses, the Al●…ingenses, and other of that sort, enemies of the Church of Rome. These Leonists or poor men of Lions, and Waldenses, and Albingenses were the same men, but diversely upon divers occasions termed by the Roman synagogue which hated them. Their opinions then did Hus maintain. Aeneas Silvius doth also directly witness the same, affirming that the 
s Hist Bohem. ca 35.  Hussites did embrace the opinions of the Waldenses. There you may see, that their doctrine was against the Primacy of the Pope, Purgatory and such like matters. 
s Chron. lib. 4.  Genebrarde, who sayeth that these Waldenses began Anno 1170, or as some other will 1218. rehearseth out of Silvius these opinions of theirs, that prayers for the dead and Purgatorie-fire are an invention of the priests covetousness, that holy Images are to be defaced, that Confirmation and extreme Unction are no Sacraments, that auricular Confession is a trifling thing. He who list, may see a great many more of their 
t Catal. test. verit. li. 〈◊〉.  positions, agreeing with the doctrine which we teach, which may well also be gathered from the jesuits themselves. For that is the cause that 
u In prefat. general. Controvers.  Bellarmine joineth these together as heretics, the Ber●…garians, the Petrobrusiant, the Waldenses, the Albingenses, the UUiclevistes, the Hussites, the Lutherans, etc. And 
u Lib. 1. c. 19  Lewes Richeome, another of that Society, in his defence of the Mass against the Lord Plessis, saith that the Ministers for the confirming of their figurative sense in This is my body, have none for their Doctors, for their Ancients, for their Fathers, but Berengarius, ●…uinglius, Calvin, 〈◊〉, wickliff, the Albingenses, the UUaldenses. These Waldenses then and Albingenses are ours, by the confession of our Adversaries. And of these, long agone there were no small company. For as Du 
x Hist. li. 12.  Haillan in the life of Philip the 3. King of France speaketh, being driven from Lions in France, they withdrew themselves into Lombardy, where they so multiplied, that their doctrine began to spread through Italy, and came as far as Sicily. As the same Author 
y Lib. 9  writeth, Philippus Augustus came to his kingdom, Anno 1180. which is now more than four hundred years since. And in his time it was, that the Albingenses did so increase in France, that the Pope and Princes adjoining were afraid of their number. He who readeth the story of them shall see, that they are reported to have held many gross, wicked and absurd opinions mingled with their true doctrine. But Du. Haillan the best and most judicious Chronicler of France, and no partial witness in our behalf (since his profession touching religion was such, that he was employed to write that story, by K. Henry the third) had not so little wit, but that he perceived those imputations to be laid on them in odium, and of purpose to procure their defamation. See how wisely he speaketh truth and his conscience, and yet so coucheth it, that his fellows might not justly be offended at his words. 
z Lib. 10.  Although saith he, these Albingenses had evil opinions, yet so it is that these did not stir up the 〈◊〉 of the Pope and of great Princes against them so much, as their liberty of speech did, wherewith they used to blame the vices 〈◊〉 dissoluteness of the said Princes and of the Clergy, yea to tax the vices and actions of the Popes. This was the principal point which brought them into universal hatred, and which charged them with more evil opinions than they had. Now first that they were not men infamous, either for their vile opinions or filthy conversation, and secondly that they were not only base and poor people, it is evident by this, that so many noble and worthy men took part with them, yea to the adventuring of their lives, in their company and for then behalf, as the 
a Ibidem.  Counties or Earls of Tholouse, of Cominges, of Bigerre, of Car●…, yea the King of Arragon. And when Raimund this Earl of Tholouse was for his belief excommunicated by the Pope, and a Croisado was proclaimed against him, and the Albingenses, as if they had been Saracens or Infidels, not only the Counties of Foix & Cominges came with all their strength to assist Raimund, but Alphonsus the king of Arragon came in his own person to his succour, as being his kinsman and his friend. And when all these were met together, the report is saith Du Haillan, that the army of these heretics, did consist of about one hundred thousand fight men. These things being thus discovered by men of your own part, be ashamed you Papists and blush, to spread among your simple and credulous followers, that never men did as we do, nor believed as we believe, before Luther's time, and all Christendom formerly liked of the Papistical doctrine and proceed. But because you shall yet hear one testimony farther, touching these Albingenses and Waldenses, how honest and truly religious they were, I will cite what one Reinerius, a man who did hate them and was as it is supposed, an Inquisit or against them, did report concerning them, now three hundred years agone, or there about. Thus then among much other matter he saith of them, 
b cattle test. verit. lib. 15.  There were many sects of heretics long agone, among all which sects that are or were, there is not one more pernicious to the Church of God, then that of the Poor men of Lions, for three causes. First because it is of longer continuance. Some say that it hath endured from the time of Sylvester. Other say, that from the time of the Apostles. The second is because it is more general. For there is almost no land in which this sect doth not creep. The third, that whereas all other by the imm●…ity of their Blasphemies against God, do make men abhorred them, this of the Lyonists having a great show of godliness, because they do live justly before men, and do believe all things well of God, and all the Articles which are contained in the Creed; only the Church of Rome they do blaspheme and hate: which the multitude is easy to believe, and as Sampsoni Foxes had their faces several ways, but their tails tied one to the other, so heretics are divers in sects among themselves, but in the impugning of the Church they are united. There can hardly be found a more honourable testimony, out of the mouth or pen of a bitter and bloody adversary, as he was who wrote this, and much more, concerning those good servountes of God.  
30 We shall not need to ascend any higher, since he giveth witness of the antiquity of their profession long before his ●…lme. Which otherwise to make plain is as easy, as to deliver that which hitherto I have spoken. And it is not to be conceived that Petrus Wald●… (of whom the Waldenses took their name at Lions) had his doctrine from no body, but that of himself he attained to his own knowledge, since he was not deeply learned. 
c Matth. Par●… in Gul. Conquestore.  Berengarius indeed was only called in question for denying of Transubstantiation in the Sacrament, but it may well be thought, that in some thing else he dissented from the Church of Rome. And albeit by his own weakness and the importunity of the Clergy, he yielded once or twice to recant, and abjure the true doctrine which he held, yet he had many 
d Continuat. histor. de gestis Anglorum, lib. 3. 27.  scholars, who by his example would not be driven from the right Belief, which they had apprehended. These scholars were in 
e Malmisbur. lib 3.  France in great numbers, and in divers other Lands. And Genebrard cannot conceal it, but that about the 
f Chronogr lib. 4.  year of our LORD 1088. Basilius the Monk did set on foot again the error of Berengarius. And might not the doctrine of both these be sucked from Bertram, who wrote so learnedly and so directly, out of the Scriptures and Fathers, against the Reall-presence and Transubstantiation, that the Index 
g In Bertramo.  Expurgatorius cannot tell what to make of him; but the Bishop of 
h Resp. ad Dan. Tilen. fol. 258.  Eureux under the name of Henry Connestable, termeth him the great forerunner of all the Sacramentaries; and 
i La saint Messe declare. lib. 2. 4  Rich●…e the jesuit disclaimeth him plainly as a sacramentary Heretic. Then, Calvin and Zuinglius were not the first who gainsaid Transubstantiation. Before our ascending thus high, we might tell you of Saint Bernard, whom although it is likely at the first dash you will challenge as your own, yet when you have well advised on him, you may let him go again. For albeit he had his errors, which he sucked from the age wherein he lived, and we may not in all things subscribe to his judgement, but say of him as commonly it is spoken, Bernardi●… non vidit omnia: yet we find in him s●…rem partem, a liberal profession of many good and sound points agreeable to the Gospel. He for a fashion acknowledgeth main matters to be in the Pope, and giveth him 
k De considerate. ad Eugen. lib. 2. 8.  greater titles than any Papist can justify, but it is by such insinuation to win him the more attention from Eugenius, and then having procured liberty, or rather taken it to himself, he schooleth and lessoneth the Pope, plainly showing, that he liked not of their ordinary courses, neither did he repute him to have that pre-eminence or prerogative, which his Parasites did allow him. But touching the matter 
l Serm. 61. in Canti●….  of merit by good works, for 
m Epist. 190.  justification by faith alone in Christ; for 
n De gratia & libero arbitrio.  Free-will, for 
o Serm. 3. de 7. misericordijs.  Certain assurance of salvation in the death and by the strength of our Saviour, and for 
p Serm. in Concil. Rhemens'.  dislikeing then the vile life of the Clergy, how cle●…re, how pregnant, how copious is he? These things we teach together with him: and notwithstanding his other slips, we doubt not but his soul doth rest with the Lord, God pardoning unto him his errors and ignorances, which he, being carried with the stream of that time, did never discuss, but took them as they were delivered to him, without scanning or examining. And to this good hope we are firmly induced, by that saying of Saint Paul. 
q 1. Cor 3. 11.  Other foundation can no man lay then that which i●…aide, which is jesus Christ, And if any man build on this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, timber, hay or stubble, every man's work shall be made manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by the fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work, that he hath built upon, abide, he shall receive wages. If any man's work burn, he shall lose, but he shall be safe himself. He held the foundation of justification by only faith in Christ, and that our best deeds are but 
r De gratia & liber. arbitr.  via regni, non cause regnand●…, the way to the kingdom, not the cause of reigning▪ and for that cause we doubt not but his soul is safe, though his hay and stubble of praying unto Saints, and other such stuff, as cannot endure the fire of the holy Ghosts trial, do burn and consume. And this is our judgement touching many other, both before and after the time of Saint Bernard, that holding Christ●…e foundation aright, and groaning under the heavy, but then of human Traditions▪ Satisfactions and other Popish trash they by a general repentance from their errors and l●…pses known and unknown, and by an assured faith in their Saviour, did find favour with the Lord. Such as these were, we hold to be Gods good servants to be of the number of the Elect, and propter sa●…rem & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, for their founder and better part, to be of that Church whereof we are: to be members of that body, whereof by the grace of Christ we are a portion.  
31 And in this respect our settled and resolved judgement is, that when it is asked, where our Church in former ages was, we may beside that which formerly hath been answered, truly say, that it was in England, in France, in Spain, in Italy, yea in Rome itself. Spiritus ubi vult spirat. The holy Ghost breatheth 
joh. 3. 8.  where it pleaseth. For who cannot conceive by the writings of many in former ages, or by such touches as other do give concerning them, that divers who lived nearest the whore of Babylon, did most detest her abomination, & finding that the weakness and impurity of her doctrine, could not truly satisfy the hungry & thirsty soul, did according to that knowledge which Christ out of his word revealed to them, seek some means which was not ordinarily professed in that time. And if it be asked who they were, and how could they lie hid from the world, it may truly be answered, that their case was like the case of them in the days of 
s 1. Reg. 19 18.  Elias, who were not known to that State, which would have persecuted them. Now why should not we think, but as God had his secret and invisible company at that time, in that most idolatrous country, so in the time of the deepest darkness, he had those who saw light this Christian children among Antichrists brood: such as embraced true religion, among the superstitious? So that Italy and Rome, and these Western parts, had some of God●… Saints in all ages, who like sea-fish, most fresh in the faltest water, and being removed in their affections, though not in their persons, did with 〈◊〉 Lot vex their righteous souls in the 
2 Pet 〈◊〉. 8.  midst of a spiritual Sodom, and kept themselves 〈◊〉 unspotted 
●…am. 1. 27.  of the world. And yet it is not to be taken, that we co●…rctate the Church within those Provinces only which looked toward the See of Rome, but know that God had thousands of his elect elsewhere. 
Osor. li. 3. de gest. Emanuel.  Christians have been in 〈◊〉 India, even by perpetual dilcent from the days of the Apostles: and so in Africa among the 〈◊〉 Abyssines, in 〈◊〉 and huge-companies, besides 
Li. 9 Dam. 〈◊〉 Goes de morib. Aethiop.  such as have continued 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Asia the lesser, Egypt, but especially in the Greek Church, which was never so much as in show extinguished, and from whom the Russians and Muscovites had their faith. Our Popish lads would gladly shut all these out of Christ's fold, because they acknowledged not the Bishop of Rome, for their universal Pastor: but we should do wrong to Almighty God, to pin his judgement upon the Pope's sleeve, and to offer to pull from him so many ample Churches, whereas charity and common sense might put us in mind, that he might there have thousands throughout all ages. Look to these places ye Papists, and imagine that if there had been none but these, yet the words of the Scripture, which in generality speak of a spouse had been true, and Christ had there had his body on earth, and the Church had not been utterly extinguished, if neither we nor the synagogue of Rome had been extant.  
32 But in as much as it cannot be denied, but that the Prophecies concerning Antichrist do most touch the Western world, 
y Apoc. 17. 18.  Rome being by the holy Ghost evidently designed, to be the seat of the whore of Babylon, as also because our Romish standard-bearers, are more willing to talk of those parts, then of any other, I will once again return to the countries near adjoining. Then in some parts or other of Christendom, how many men were there in all ages, who lo●…thed both the See of Rome, & the whole courses of it, as the Israelites did loath the Egyptian bondage? Matthew Paris alone giveth us many notable experiments that way, as relating the Acts of the 
z In Hen. 3.  Emperor Fredrick, who put out divers declarations in detestation of the Pope; and adding else▪ where farther of his own, that 
a Ibidem.  Pope Gregory did absolve from the oath of fealty, all who were bound unto the Emperor, persuading them that they should be faithful in unfaithfulness, obed●…nt in disobed●…ence. But somuch deserved the Roman Church's loudness which is to be ex●…ed of all men, that the Pope's authority did merit●… to be hearkened unto by few or none. He reporteth also of a certain 
b Ibidem.  Carthusian Monk a●… Cambridge, who cried out against the Pope, and said that he was an heretic, and that the Churches were profaned. And of Robert Grosthead Bishop of Lancolne, who was a man both holy and learned in his time. This Lincolniensis, while he lived, had many Combats with the Bishop of Rome, and openly resisted his barbarous tyranny in domineering so far in England, as to enjoin Provision of the best Benefices, to be taken up for Italian boys; which for a 
c Lincolniens. epistol.  Prebend in his Church at Lincoln he would not yield unto, and for that cause was by the Pope excommunicated. But when he was 
d Matth Paris in Hen. 3  dying, he most bitterly inveighed against the Roman Bishop, and the Ecclesiastical Persons, as being the most w●…ked men that did live. In the same 
e Ibidem.  Author you may also find the conceit, which the most Reverend Arch-b●…shop of York Sewaldus had of them and their proceed. What should I mention 
f Hoveden. part secunda.  loachim, who said that in his time Antichrist was already borne, and was in the City of Rome. Or that Bishop of 
g Platina in Paschal. 2.  Florence, who lived about the year 1100. and did use to say, that Antichrist was then in the world, which moved Pope Paschalis so much, as that he thought fit to inquire of him in a Council, and did there castigate him for it. Notable in this kind are the contentions of Philippus Pulcher the King of France, and his whole Clergy, against 
h Pap. Mas●…on in Bonifac. 8.  Boniface the eighth. I might add to these Petrus de Brus, and many other learned men, who laid the axe to the very root of Popery, and some in set Treatises oppugned one of their documents, and some assaulted other, but that the writer of the Catalogus Testium veritatis, as it is lately enlarged, and 
i In Histor. Ecclesiast.  Master Fox, and Master 
k In Catal. script. Brit. Laur. Hū●…r. ●…uitism. part. 1.  Bale, and divers ¹ other, have largely handled this; to the reading of whose books I do referte them, who in particular desire to be more advertised in this behalf. Now if these things do appear much by their own witness, and by the confession of Papists themselves, as also by such few Records, as by God's providence so disposing, do yet remain; how many illustrious arguments might there have been of the confession of our faith, if the Clergy and Magistracy of those dark times, had not burned & suppressed all things which made against th●…, as I showed before touching the books of john wickliff, and Reginald Peacock in Oxford. The Clergy in those days did almost rule all, and they had the custody of all libraries, to ransack at their pleasure, or to put in and pull out, and they had power to search poor men's houses, and to destroy what was thought fit by them to be destroyed. But God, who would not have his truth utterly burned, or buried in ashes, suffered a remamnt to remain, yea & that in England; albeit Polydore Virgil with an Italian trick of his own, did there consume and destroy many worthy & ancient monuments.  
33 By this time I may well suppose, that some vehement Papist, having read over this long Chapter, is even ready to swell with his belly full of exceptions against these things here said. And first he will begin & say, that we rake together as the Ancestors and forerunners of our faith, such as were notorious Heretics, as wickliff or Hus or the Waldenses, men condemned by Popes or general Counsels. And Heretics, as 
m Ration 10  Campian telleth us, are the dregs and the bellows and the f●…well of hell. These as our Papists commonly say, are already firebrands of hell, and frying there in the flames. It is no rare matter with the Synagogue of Rome, to pronounce such sentences as these are. Our Rhemists by their Consistorial or Imperial decree, have defined, that Calvine & Verone are not only Heretics but 
n In Rom. 11 33.  reprobates, for writing so as they have done, touching the Article of Predestination. Yea they call M. Beza a Reprobate also, although he were not only then alive, but yet is so; howsoever the jesuits some 
o An. 1598. vide Epist. Bez●… ad Stuckium.  few years since, did by a most ridiculous Pamphlet or other news spread it in France and Italy, that he was dead, and dying had recanted his Religion, and was turned to the Romish faith, which also Geneva did by his example. It is no news with jesuits to lie, and therefore Master Beza must bear with them: and so had he need to do with the Rhemistes also, who got hastily into God's chair, & there concluded him to be a Reprobate. But indeed those good Christians before named, of whom many lost their lives for the maintenance of God's truth, were heretics in such a manner, as Christ was said to be 
p Mat. 26. 65  a blasphemer, who indeed was both called so, and condemned to be such a one, by a Council of the High-Priestes, Scribes, and Rulers of the synagogue. We do not believe that all those are Heretics, whom you Papists will so call, or account: for you give us that name, which maugre your malice, you shall never be able to prove against us. They are truly Orthodox and right Catholics, who teach nothing but that, whereof they have evident warrant out of the word of God. And this we have, as hath been oft showed by men of our side, and in that question we are ready at all times to jump with you for any part or all the doctrine which we profess. With Saint Paul therefore we say, that 
q Act. 24 14.  after the way that you call Heresy s●… worship we the GOD of our Fathers. The same which you maliciously and presumptuously term Schism and Heresy, is that whereupon (under our blessed Saviour) we rest our souls, and by the confession thereof we hope to be saved, in the day of the general judgement. Do not you therefore take that for granted, which is so highly questioned between us and you, but rather if you can, prove our profession to be heretical. By GOD'S grace we shall not shrink at any of your biggest objections.  
34 Yea but say you farther, the writers which make mention of these your predecessors, do brand them with the holding of some most gross and damnable doctrine, which you yourselves will not avouch. My answer is, that we ourselves do easily believe so much. For did malice I pray you ever say well? The 
r Act. 16. 20. cap. 17 7. 2. Cor. 12. 16  Apostles were at more times, and in more places than one, charged with many accusations, which yet in truth were but calumniations. The old Christians in the Primitive Church, were slandered to use incestuous company each with other like Oedipus, and to eat up man's flesh as at the banquet of Thyestes: yea their own 
s Eu●…b. Eccl. Hist. lib. 4. 7. 〈◊〉. 5. 1.  servants for fear were induced to lay such matters to their charge. 
t 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. 20. Theodor. Eccl. Hist I 1. 30.  Athanasius was accused to have cut of ones hand, and a harlot to his face would have calumniated him, to have committed fornication with her. This practice was never more liberally frequented, then by the enemies of the Gospel, in the late days of Popery. You may remember what I cited before out of Du Hailla●…, concerning matters f●…lsly objected to the Albinge●…ses. There is extant an 
u In fasci●…ul. ●…um exp●…nd.  Excusatory Oration of the Waldenses, wherein they say, that for that their faith, which they were ready to justify, they were condemned, judged, captivated and afflicted. And afterwards, that they were called Heretics. But in their 
Confess. Waldensiu.  Confession they have it directly, Of these criminations whereof we are blamed oftentimes, we are nothing at all guilty. The Pope and his chaplains were fell and furious against them, because they did bite so near, and therefore to disgrace them, both in present and to posterity, they held it fit that by speech, preaching and writing, it should be divulgated, that they taught monstrous blasphemies, that by that means the credulous people might be prejudicate, and so not only frighted from hearkening to them, but be much the readier to join in the prosecution of them to prison & to death. But what they indeed held, is declared before. When 
x Cochl. Histor. Hussit. lib. 2.  john Hus was at the Council of Constance, he did openly call God to witness, that he did neither preach nor teach those things which his adversaries did object against him, neither that they ever did come into his mind. Neither is it to be marveled, that they did lad his scholars with the like false accusations, when their malice was such toward them, as that they burned many 
y Lib. 8.  thousands of them in barns, which was done by the treachery of one Mainardus. In other places the Romanists have still held the same course of slandering, which caused the Protestants to profess, in the Diet at Augusta, 
z Sleidan. Commentar. lib. 8.  that divers opinions were falsely reported up and down, which wrongfully were fathered upon them. And that th●se were not only estranged from the holy Scriptures, but that they were abhorrent even from common sense. And is it not probable that long since, when much darkness did cover the face of the earth, and few had grace to perceive their doings, and fewer had authority to question their doctrine, the Pope-holie Clergy which hated the true Gospelers with all their hearts, would pay them with vile and odious reports; when in this age, wherein God hath afforded more plentiful means, to discover their falsehood, they do dare not only in their sermons, or in their secreter whisperings, but in their Printed books to proclaim abroad concerning us, most false and ungodly calumniations and imputations, as that we do teach all looseness of life, and 
a Weston ubique.  Libertinism by this our new Gospel, that we 
b Campian Ration. 8.  maintain, that all sins are equal, that we hold it as a Maxim, that God is the Author of sin, and whatsoever else it pleaseth M. Campian and his fellows, to invent & devise touching us, wheeras we utterly disclaim these & the like Positions, as execrable & ungodly. Yea that Mountebank whom once before I mentioned, hath not blushed to assevere, that we so teach, as that by our doctrine, 
c Certain Articles or forcible Reasons. At Anwerp, 1600.  the Protestants are bound in conscience never to ask God forgiveness of their sins. And that they are bound in conscience to avoid all good worke●…. As also that we make God the only cause of sin; And hold that God is werse then the Devil. So shameless was this fellow grown, that he neither knoweth not careth what he saith. And yet many a poor Papist, abused and gulled by the Devil●… deceiving instruments, doth swallow such goageons, & runneth away with these things, being as verily persuaded of them, as that the Gospel is true. Such a hand the Seminary Priests have over their disciples, that they may not read our books to see whether these objections be true or no, neither may they hear aught to the contrary. Now if they thus use us who can speak for ourselves, will any mammarveile, that those who professed the verity two or three hundred of years since, do t●…st of the malignant aspersion of those times.  
35 The Romanists not withstanding all this which hath been said, do not yet so leave us, but once more farther add, that none of all those which hitherto have been named, or can be named, but in some known, confessed, and undoubted opinions, did vary from you, and therefore they and you may not be said to have been all of one Church. Our Masters of Rheims do think that this lieth hardly upon us, & therefore thus vauntingly they urge, that they 
d In Rom. ●…1. 4.  will not put the Protestants to prove, that there were seven thousand of their Sect, when th●…r new Elias Luther began, but let them prove that there were seven or any one, either then or in all ages before him, that was in all points of his belief. What the old Fathers taught, we shall have time enough in divers Chapters hereafter to show; where by the assistance of GOD, we shall discuss many single points of faith: but for other of later time, it is most easy to manifest, that all those whom before I have named, did generally for all main matters teach the same which we now do teach. There is no Papist who can truly and without calumniating them, or saying things upon them, demonstrate that in causes which touch the substance of faith, or the foundation of Christian Religion, they did dissent from us. He who will try this, let him look on the Declaration 
e In Mr. Foxes Eccles Histor.  of Walther Brute, which I before mentioned, and let him read it set down by himself, and not reported by other. And what did that learned lay-man deliver there, which was not the belief of Wiclif, and the rest of the English professing the Gospel in those times? But if there be in some petty matters, yea questions of some reasonable moment, difference in opinion between them and us, shall we not therefore be of the same Church with them, or they with us? Yes verily: for otherwise many of the ancient Fathers, should not be of the Communion of saints, or Catholic Congregation with those who came after them, and amended their errors. For was not 
f Divin. justir l. 7. 14  Lactantius spotted with the millenary infection, and 
g Augustin. Epistol. 48.  Cyprian with the matter of Rebaptizing? Had not Austen an 
h Epistol. 106. & 107.  opinion of the necessity of the Eucharist, to be administered to children, and that Infants being dead without 
i Epist. 28.  Baptism, were not only deprived of the fruition of heavenly joys, but were damned to the pit of hell, and to everlasting torments? And what man religiously affected will suspect, but that although Saint Cyprian, and the other African Bishops aslembled in a 
k Concil. Carthag. in Cyprian. oper.  Council, did, concerning the new baptizing of those who were already baptised by Heretics, determine clean contrary to Cornelius, & the rest of the Italian Bishops, yet they should not be of the same faith in general, and of the same holy Church, whereof Cornelius was? Saint Austen can thus write concerning Cyprian: 
l De Baptism contra Donatist. lib. 1.  Whereas that holy man Cyprian, (thinking otherwise of Baptism, than the matter was, which was afterward handled, and with most diligent consideration established) did remain in the Catholic unity; both by the plentifulness of his charity a recompense was made, and by the sickle of his suffering there was a purging. 
m Lib. 〈◊〉.  In another place he saith: The authority of Cyprian doth not terrifi●… mee●… but the humility of Cyprian doth refresh me. He meaneth that if that worthy man had lived, to have seen more light in that argument, or to behold, what the succeeding time had revealed, and concluded in that behalf, he would in great humility and meekness of heart have conformed himself and yielded unto it. Which may justly serve for a true defence of the Waldenses, john Wiclif, john Hus, or any other servant of God, who might seem in matters of small moment to vary from us.  
36 And thus I trust that by this time it appeareth, to every one who will not wilfully close his eyes, & stop his ears against an app●…rant truth, that God hath at all times had his children holding the verity of Christian Religion, & not approving of the filthy Superstitions, & sacrilegious Idolatries of the abominable Antichrist of Rome. So that it is a most fond collection, that either the Popish Convocation, or Confusion, are the right & undoubted spouse of jesus Christ; or else that for a thousand years together there was no Church in the world. They dote much upon themselves, and on the opinion of their beauty, who in such intolerable deformities, do predicate and magnify their Synagogue, as the unspotted wife, and mystical body of our most blessed Saviour. Truth it is, that intending to blind the ignorant, and to abuse the simple, they laboured by all external pomp and show, to give to their hypocrisy and outward formality, a settled opinion of piety and sanctity; and for that cause there was no corner of the brain of man, or rather of men in many ages succeeding together, unsought, to procure glory to that which was in itself very unglorious. Their care therefore was to convert the eyes of all persons on their external hew, which was marvelously adorned and garnished to the sense, with their 〈◊〉 Crosses set up or carried before some Prelates, with the triple Crown 
Praefat. Catalogue. Testium veritatis.  of their Popes, the red hats of their Cardinals, the precious attire of some in their Churches, their prodigious apparel abroad, the diverse-cou●…oured cowls of their Monks, such singing and chanting with Organs, such ringing of Bells, such trimming of Images, & many more such sensible matters, as that neither the jews nor the Gentiles had the like. And among all this, if true Religion in divers were present, it is not to be marveled at if she were scant seen, or if no notice were taken of her, for her poor & untrimmed or ungarnished hew, for her naked simplicity and unpainted integrity. It was the commendation given to Sol●… beloved, by whom the Church is represented, that the 
Ps. 45. 13.  kings daughter is all glorious within: her bewti●… consisting of purity in faith, verity in doctrine, severeness in behaviour, innocency, patience, and such like spiritual complements. And these are as much contemned in others by the Antichristian rabble, as they are neglected in themselves; whereas their external pomp on the contrary side is as much despised by the LORD, as it is magnified in their fleshly and carnal imaginations. And thus I end this matter, hoping that if any Reader think that I have been to long in this Chapter, he will remember the weight of that which hath been handled, and a recompense shall be made in some other Reasons following, where I am not enforced to the large handling of the question then occurrent.   

THE SECOND REASON. The name of Catholics.  T. HILL. 
NO man can justly deny, but that they who have ever holden the name of Catholics, and have been known thereby, were undoubtedly of true Religion, for that they had ever on their side, the Scriptures, Miracles, Fathers, Counsels & Martyrs, and for that every one which was against them was ever accounted & reputed for an Heretic. And the same Catholik●… were ever taken as the trunk, or as the body of the tree, and all others bearing the name of Christians, as branches or boughs cut of the same tree. Now all the world knoweth, that whoseever in any age was a member of the Roman Church, and under the obedience of the high Bishop thereof, he was ever taken for a Catholic & so termed, although in these our days it hath pleased the Protestants to call such by the name of Papists, which indeed is all one with the name Catholics; for that it signifieth such as follow and embrace the doctrine of that Church which hath for her head under Christ the Pope. And it is not amiss, as chrysostom saith, to be named of them who govern the 
Homil. 33. in Acta.  Church in Christ's steed, so that they take not their name of any particular man as Heretics d●…e.  G. ABBOT. 
BY this little which is already passed, every man may conceive, that Master Doctor Hill is desirous to write a book; (for I dare not say, make one, for fear of slandering him) and resolving that the ground of all his ●…ong should be taken from Master bristol Motives, he could not well for very shame begin as Bristol began, least at the very entrance into this his renowned labour, he should be deprehended, to take up the most part of his ware on trust. Using therefore in the front some little simple cunning to go farther of, he with some change borrowed the matter of his first Chapter 
a Brist. 37 & 45. Motive.  out of the 37. and 45. Motive of the other: but not willing to trouble himself any more in that painful sort to seek far of, his fingers present●…●…itched to be doing with somewhat nearer hand; and therefore for the slender substance of his second Reason, he goeth fairly and readily to the 
b C●…. 1. &. 3.  first and third Chapter of his good Master Bristol, and scambling somewhat of his own in, from those two he patcheth up all the ●…est. He hoped that the former being not so much disguised as trans-placed should have covered all which followed: and if that at the first had been cleanly carried, all which cometh after, would have been the safer under the protect●…on thereof. There is or hath been some what in the world, which thinketh all well if the head of itself be hid, although the whole body do lie out to be seen. If you know not what that is, 〈◊〉 imagine it to be Caligula the Emperor, who albeit in great thunder and lightning, as 
c Sueton in Caligula 51  Suetonius reporteth, he would wholly run under his bed for fear, yet if it were but a little clap or flash, he would wink with his eyes, and hide his head alone, and then he thought all his body out of peril: But for this borrower upon Interest, his body lieth open to us searching for it: and the head, although both winking and hooded, hath not been hid. And now take us with you, I pray you.  
2 Every wise one can deny and that most justly, that such as have desired to engross the name of Catholics, appropriating it to themselves, and yet have taken no farther care, but titularly to be are it, as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r●…, as M●…ns 〈◊〉 no●… 〈◊〉, cannot rightly make challenged to retain & possess the Orthodox faith; but that the Divine Scriptures, true and approved Miracles, authen●…icall Fathers, O●…cumenicall Counsels, and Christ's Martyrs may be as su●…e from such counterfeits, as light is from darkness; and men shall not be Heretics, but God●… good servants, who upon sufficient ground do stand against them. The true Church is indeed●… the lords Vine, the tree of his delight, a more precious plant then any was in Paradise, but those who bear 
d Apoc. 3▪ 1.  a 〈◊〉 to live & yet are dead, as it was said to the Angel of the Church of Sardis, are to be accounted no better, then dead boughs or rotten branches, until they see their own error and thereupon repent. And all the world knoweth (that we may use your phrase, which you borrow of Master 
e Appendix to the quodlibets in the margin.  Parsons, or of the F●…ench 〈◊〉 le mon●…) that howsoever in times past, while Rome kept the Apostolic faith, a man v●…ted to the same profession might be called a Catholic, not because simply and absolutely he applied himself to the men of Rome, but by reason that ●…ointelye and together with them, he accepted the Belief of the Universal Church; yet nov●… one conforming himself to the practice of that City, to the Decrees of the Popes, to the Canons of the Tridentine Council, doth me●… to be termed a Cacolike, an Heretic, an enemy to the Church, an adversary of CHRIST, a vassal of Antichrist. But we●… are contented to give them a milder appellation, of Romanistes and Papists, or in L●…in Pontifi●…ij, because they fetch their Dictates and Oracles from Rome, and more respect the voice of their Pope, than the voice of Almighty God; they not sparing to thrust that miserable man into Christ's place, and to make him not so much a ministerial, a●… 〈◊〉 monstrous head of their uncatholike Congregation. And since the name of Papists doth so please the, that in the former Chapter they ●…ssume it, and in this Chapter they 〈◊〉 it, giving reason why they should have it, as being all one with their pretended Catholics, we will not envy it them, but with good liberty they may take it. Neither shall they need to trouble themselves so far, as to cite Saint chrysostom for the ratifying of it. His words are these▪ 
f Homil. 33 in Acta.  But if we will also have the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of any man, it is not as from the beginners of heresies, but as from those who are rulers ●…ver us, & do govern●… the Church. The reason of which speech in that reverend Father, I cannot hastily guess at, since we find not, that in or before his time, the Christians were called by the name of any of the Rulers over the Church, not Petrians no●… Paulians, nor any such name. Only his own adversaries termed them, who did stick close unto him, 
g So●…omen lib. 8. 21.  I●…ita, his proper name being joannes, and the appellation of 〈◊〉 being afterward given unto him, as a Cog●… for his eloquence. In which respect it is probable, that for the defence of himself, and those which followed him in the truth, he did use the words before cited.  T. HILL. 
But yet the Catholics are not called Papists, but only of a few Lutherans in Germany, and of some other their adherentes in other countrey●…●…ere about: for in Greece, Asia, Africa, and in the In●…s, as i●… Italy, Spain, Sicily and in other countries of Europe, the 〈◊〉 of Papists i●… v●…terly unknown. The name therefore of Papists is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used but only of a few, and never heard of before Luther 〈◊〉, for that he coul●… not call them after the proper name of any one man, because there was nev●…r any such in the Church, which ●…ther brought up any new doctrine, or changed the Religion of his Predecessors.  G. ABBOT. 
IF you would, you might quickly know, that names are given for distinction sake, & when those persons to whom the names belong, are to be distinguished from a general sort, they have names more general: but when from a special comprehended in their own general, they are to have appellations more special. In Greece if a man had been disposed to put a difference between one that was learned, and the vulgar unlearned people, it had been a good note of distinction to say, he is a Philosopher. But when the question grew between several Sects & their opinions, then for more particular difference, it was not enough to say that Diogenes was a Philosopher, but he was a Cynic: such a one was an Epicurean, another a Peripa●…eticke, this an Academike, that a Platonic. In some sense it is enough to say, that in the year 1588., her Majesty of England had against the Spaniard a camp of so many thousand English, resolute men, religious, and well appointed: but when there is question of particulars in that camp, than the Oxford-sheere men had those Captains, the Wiltshire men these, and their colours were several. So if in India or Asia, the opposition must be between the Infidels or Mahometans on the one side, and the servants of Christ, of what sort soever they be, on the other side, it is enough to say in general, thus or thus do the Christians: But if there be occasion to particularise any thing, than the Christians in Spain, or those in Germany are thus and thus affected. When speech is of the doctrine of Mahomet opposed to Christianity, the name Mahumetane will comprehend the Persian and his subjects, the Turk and his vassals, the kings of Argier, Tunis and Morocco, and all that are under them. But when we talk of the difference in Mahomet's profession, between the Turk and the Persian, which hath on either party cost much blood, we say the Persian thus holdeth: the Turk believeth thus. Wheresoever in Christendom there is disagreement in Religion, some holding for the Pope and some other against him, there the name Papist is frequent: & this is not only in Germany, but God be praised for it, in Norway, and Sweden, and Denmark, in Polonia, in France, England, Scotland, the Low Countries, & wheresoever else the Gospel is known either openly or secretly. Yea in Italy, Spain and Sicily not only the name of Papists, but the whole doctrine of Popery would quickly come in question, were it not for your bloody Inquisition, or cruel massacring otherwise, of such as bend not that way. And yet they be not able to extirpate God's truth. As for the Greeks' they love you not, neither like of your Religion; and Asia, Africa and the Indies know very little of our differences in Profession, unless it be by the Christians themselves, and that only here and there, as at Aleppo peradventure or some other Mart town; except you will name a few creeks or corners of Africa, and the East Indies, where the Portugese's have encroached, or those parts of the West Indies, where the Spaniards have devoured up, almost all the old inhabitants, and planted themselves: and to ask of these Portugese's and Spaniards whether they be aught but Catholics, is not to ask a man's fellow, but to ask a man's self, whether he be a thief or no? But surely the Infidels, or Turks, or Greeks' do neither call you nor know you by that name. And if Luther were the first who gave you that title of Papist, which pleaseth you so much, you are beholding to him for fitting you so right: not that you might not lustily have been so called before. But he having occasion to display your impiety to the full, and God inableing him with learning and knowledge, as also with spirit and wit for that purpose, he gave you a name most suitable to your nature, which is the truest use of appellations and names. It very well agreeth with you: for if Christians be those who hearken unto Christ, and are directed by him, you may well be Papists, who depend on the only voice and direction of the Pope.  T. HILL. 
WHereas 〈◊〉, Heretics have ●…ver take their names of some one who began that Havesy, as the Nestorians of Nestorius, the Pelagius of Pelagius, Lutherans of Luther, Calvinists of Calvin, etc. And although Luther termed them Papists, yet knew he so well in his conscience, that they ever had been and aught to be called Catholics, as that he caused his followers to change their Creed in saying: I believe the Christian Church, and not I believe the Gatholike 
〈◊〉. Mo. 1.  Church: for fear lest they should be thought to confess that they beleaved in the Church of Rome, which ever was called Catholic. And is seemeth that the Protestants know in their ●…wne consciences the name of Heretics to be so proper to themselves, as that in their translations of the Bible, where the name Heretic occurreth, they put in place of is, a man that is the author of Sects, assuring themselves that the Reader finding the word Heretic or Heresy, would presently judge it to be meant of them.  G. ABBOT. 
4. THat Luther & Calvin were Heretics, you Pseudo-Catholikes may say, but you shall never be able to prove it. They taught God's truth, and if ever any would have showed them out of the Scripture, that they had erred, such was their mind, they would have reform it. As for the name of Lutherans & Calvinists, to be desired or embraced by us, we utterly disclaim it; not that we are ashamed to be of the same faith which these worthy servants of God did teach, touching the foundation of Religion; but because we take our name from the Son of God, of whom we are called 
h Act. 11. 26.  Christians. This is the name wherein all of us do rejoice, at all times and in all places, without any exception or circumstance of dependence: but the appellation of Lutherans, and Calvinists, or Zwinglians, or any such like, you in your hatred towards us do set upon us. And by your rule of chrysostom before mentioned, they might without impiety be received of us in some sense, since Zuinglius and Luther and Calvine, had a great stroke in the government of those particular Churches where they-lived, and were much honoured of the Congregations which were near unto them. As for the Nestorians, we at knowledge that they had their title of the Hererike Nestorius, and the Pelagians of Pelagius, yea if you will also, the Marcionites of Martion, the Arrians of Arius, according to that of chrysostom: 
i Homil 33. in Acta.  Are we cut from the Church? have we Captain. Heretics? have we our name from men? have we any leader, as Martion is to one, and Manicheus to another, and Arius to a third, & to a fourth another beginner of Heresy? But whereas you give down a general rule, that Heretics have ever taken their names of some one who began that Heresy, we pity you much & fairly demiunde of you, from what one did the 
k August. de Haeres ad Quod vultd.  Euchitae, the Quartidecimiani, the Patri●…passiani, yea the Anabaptists take their name? you should have said that a great many had their appellation from the auctor of their sect, but not all. And therefore put this also among your ignorances.  
5 That Luther should be afraid of the word Catholic, so without reason usurped by you, or arrogated to yourselves, is a conceit very childish. He who dreaded not to encounter your Pope's triple Crown, to bait his Bulls, to batter his Purgatory, to lay siege to Babylon itself, was never so white-livered, as to fear the Moon shining in the water. Therefore when you shall cite v●… some authentical warrant, that he changed I believe the Catholic Church, into I believe the Christian Church, we will give credit unto you. But when you bring us Master Bristol in the first of his Motives, and he giveth us no testimony of his speech, neither quoteth any place for it, we think that we may safely return it to the shop, in which it was first forged. Notwithstanding we observe the manner of your proceeding, you Papists taking up things by tradition, or one from another, without ground, to deface any man of rare note among us. You in your margin quote Bristol, and there upon I turning to the place in him, find the same accusation, but no place or tract specified, only Luther is put in the margin and nothing else. Your late fabler upon 
l Quinti Evangelij. cap. 1.  Nullus & N●…, serveth us in this sort, saving that he ascribeth that to us all, which his fellows limit only to Luther. Being to speak of the Article in the Creed, I believe the holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, he sub-joineth thereupon, This Article all the protestants in general, as far as in them is, do oppugn. First because they have thrust out of the Creed, the word (Catholic,) & in steed thereof have put the word (Christian,) as is Catholics were no Christians. This did Luther in the Creed in Dutch, because the word Catholic is a sta●… in the 〈◊〉 of the Protestants. It is worth the marking, that first he chargeth us all with it, secondly the instance is given in Luther alone, and thirdly no proof is made of that, no not so much as out of Giffords' Calvino-Turcismus, out of which being as slanderous a work as his own, this excellent Author doth most commonly take his confirmations. Thus if one Papist will be so wicked, as to devise something which was never spoken, or to pervert that to ill purpose which was well spoken, his fellows will presently applaud it as a truth, and publish it one after another, as if it were as certain as the Gospel. Now for this of Luther, if there had been any such matter, which but in probability could have been fastened upon him, would that sweet fellow Cochleus who pursueth him step by step, have forgotten it? Or would he not aswell have remembered him for the Creed, as he did for the Paternoster, although that also was but the seeking of a knot in a rush. For it is a complaint made by 
m An. 1522. in acts Lutheri.  Cochleus against Luther, that in his translation of the New Testament, he did not keep the set words of the lords prayer formerly used, but for Pater noster quies in coelis, he put it, Noster pater in coelo, and for, Sanctificetur nomen tuum, he translated it as if it were, tuum nomen sit sanctum, & yet you must understand that it was into Dutch that he turned it, and not into Latin, where in all likelihood it was as a great fault to put Noster before Pater, as it is in English to say Our Father, and not rather Father ours, or Father of us. Do you not want matter of weight to object, when you spend your times in such frivolous exceptions? And even of this sort is the next stout reason which followeth. For as Luther was afraid of the word Catholic, so are we of Heretic, that is to say, never a whit: for we know that there be Heretics, as Arrians, Anabaptists and many more: and that the Romanists are as great in Heresy as any, in as much as they vary from truth in many, & those capital and very dangerous points. But if you had not trusted your master Bristol, from whom you have 
n Motiv. 2.  stolen this, but looked yourself into our books, you should have seen that Master Beza had translated that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Saint Paul to 
o Tit. 3. 10.  Titus, hareticu●… hominem; and so Tremelius out of the Syriake, A viro haretico. And the ordinary English hath it, even as the Rhemists put it, without varying a title in the whole verse, A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition avoid, & another English, Reject him that is an heretic after once or twice admonition. And I think it be not to be found, but where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is in the Greek, we put it 
p Act. 24. 14. 1. Cor. 11. 19 Gal. 5. 20. 2. Pet. 2. 1.  heresy. And if at any time there hath been put for an heretic, an author of sects, it hath been to no other purpose, but to express the nature of the word, & to make it plain to the people, what is meant by an heretic, that is an inventor or a follower of some strange sector opinion in Religion, to which peculiar use, the Ecclesiastical writers have applied 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from a more general understanding amongst all the old Grecians. Here it may be noted once again, that you Papists make no conscience, in charging us with any thing whatsoever, that maketh for your purpose. For if it be in our books as clear as the Sun to the contrary, yet your people must not look into our writings, so to disprove your falsehood: that is inhibited unto them. Whereby it appeareth, that you not only do your best, to send your ghostly children to hell; but the glory of it is, they must go thither blindfolded. At this b●…ck you now have them.  T. HILL. 
AS for their own name, whereby they term themselves Protestants, (which name they take from certain Lutherans in Germany, who first named themselves so, differing and dis-agreeing altogether from the Protestants in doctrine) it is new, and never heard of before in the world, and of the same quality and condition, that the name, Zwinglians, is of. And therefore I conclude with the saying of Saint Hierome. If any where thou hear them, which are said to be of Christ, to be 
Advers. Lucif. Chryso. in Act Hom. 33. & just. in Tryph.  termed not of our Lord jesus Christ, but of some other, as Marcionites, Valentinians, Hil-brethrens, or Field-brethrens, be thou sure, that they are not the Church of Christ, but the Synagogue of Antichrist.  G. ABBOT. 
I told you before, that absolutely we challenged no name but Christians, which is full out as ancient as the time of the 
q Act. 11 26.  Apostles; but Zwinglians you in your malice term us, as also Protestants with a contempt. Yet this latter appellation was not begun by you, but arose upon an accident at Spires in Germany. There in a 
r An. 1529.  Diet the Duke elector of Saxony, the Marquis of Brandeburge, the Landgrave and some other Princes, and Cities of the Empire, did make solemnly in writing a 
s Sleidan. Hist lib. 6.  Protestation against a ●…ecree or Edict, made in prejudice of the reformed Religion▪ whereupon for distinction sake, in common speech the name of Protestants, which is the Prosters, was given unto them. By your former rule this cannot be an evil name, since it is not taken from any man, or from the author of a sect, but it arose from an action, there first thought necessary to be done with those circumstances: Whence it may be no marvel, if that title arising from that action, were never heard of in that meaning before. And since that time, those who are ready to use the like Protestation upon the like cause, or do approve of that their wise and Christian course there, do not refuse to be called as they were, in some sense, not simply; for some respects, not absolutely; but most of all for difference sake from you, against whom the Protestation is to be made. Yea and custom having so prevailed, we do in writing & speaking promiscuously use the word Protestants, as we do Religiosi, or Reformata Religionis homines, or Evangelici, not boasting in these titles, as you do to be called Papists, but only admitting of them for custom's sake, & to make a distinction between us & you, both terming ourselves Christians. Now that we altogether disagree in doctrine from the Protestants in Germany, is not so much ignorance in you to avouch, as malice. For you know & sensibly feel it, that we rightwel agree with them & they with us, in displaying of Antichrist, his Indulgences, his Pilgrimages, his Orders of Religions, in oppugning the Tridentine Council which is the new-erected Capitol of Popery, in that excellent Article of justification by faith only, and in brief in all matters of moment, saving the point of Consubstantiation in the Eucharist, which yet also thousands in Germany do deny, and whereof I shall have occasion to speak farther 
s Ration. 〈◊〉.  afterward. But the hatred which you do equally bear, unto them & unto us for the same respects, doth show that we join in serving the same Christ, & discovering the same Antichrist. Your conclusion them which you draw out of S. Hierome, maketh nothing against us; neither doth aught that you intimate out of In. Martyr or Chrysost. They speak of heretics who take both their name & doctrine from men alone, & nothing at all from God: whereas first we are Patients and not Agentes, when the name of any man is set upon us, & this is not by ourselves delighted in. And secondly our doctrine is not from any creature, but only from jesus Christ and his word, to whom we cleave and stick as to a rock, and regard none who bringeth any thing contrary thereunto. And so for this bout I leave D. Hill; putting him notwithstanding in mind, that he is so studious a sectatour, and so faithful a scholar of M Bristol, that without varying a letter he citeth the place of Hierome, word for word as his master doth, when Montenses and Campitas, might for his credit sake, and to have had a little variety, been as well translated Hill-men, or Field-people, as after that sort that he doth put them. But there Hierome, as it is most probable, alludeth to the Montanists, whom with a kind of jerk he calleth not Montanists, but Montenses, & for their lose life rather Campitas, as being fit to tumble in the fields, then to show themselves on the mountains, which also is collected by a learned 
t Marius' Victor. in Annotat. super Hieronim.  man upon that place.  
7 HOwsoever some other simple flourishes are here made by M. Doctor, yet the substance of his second Reason is this; that the Romanists are called the Catholics, therefore they are the true Church; which Argument is no better than a very vain & ridiculous thing. For who doth not know that evil persons have good names, as 〈◊〉 Adoni-z●…dek the king of Jerusalem, 
〈◊〉 jos. 10. 1.  who was an Idolater & a Tyrant, had a name signifying the Lord of justice, or the justice of the Lord, & one who was a grievous persecutor of the Christians, was termed 〈◊〉 Theotec●…, the child of God. 
〈◊〉 Euseb. Eccl Histor. 9 9  And as it fell out, that Jerusalem which once was 
x Isai. 1. 21.  the faithful city, afterward became an harlot: so it cometh too oft to pass, that such as whose Ancestors have had a good name; & that not undeservedly, do themselves decline from the virtue of their predecessors, & yet will strive for the name still. Beth-el in 
y 〈◊〉. Reg. 12. 32.  jeroboams time was unwilling to part with the name of Beth-el, the house of God; but it rather deserved to be called Beth-aven, the house of vanity. The Priests & Levites, as may be gathered by the consequence of the text in Malachy, & by the Lords answer there, did bear themselves bold, that they were God's Priests, and other there were none; they were of the seed of Levi, which Tribe the Lord had separated to be his chosen inheritance, they were the only Levites: but hear what God said to it; 〈◊〉 But 〈◊〉 are gone out of the 
〈◊〉 Malach. 〈◊〉. 8.  way: ye have caused many to fall by the law: ye have broken the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts. He reputed that but a painted sheath with a wooden weapon in it. How did the 
a joh. 8. 39  jews boast that they were Abraham's seed, Israelites, sons of juda, the ●…nant of the posterity of the patriarchs? but Christ telleth them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. Our Saviour in the Revelation doth meet with such merchants, who being in truth of the Synagogue 
b Apoc. 3. 9  of Satan, did call themselves jews and were not, but did lie. And among the Christians there have been men desirous of names, which were not fit for them, or else the Apostle would not have said, 
c 1. Cor. 5. 11,  If any that is called a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or an Idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner, with such a one eat not. The name of a brother in Christianity is much: as presupposing to have God a father to him, who is indeed the father of all the faithful: & yet there be brethren in name, who are far enough from God & goodness. 
d Hist Eccl. 3. 18.  Evil names, as we find in Theodoret, being set on good men do nothing obscure them; The Christians were not hurt, when julian in a scorn to our Saviour jesus, always termed them Galileans: and if Socrates, saith Theodoret, had been called Critias, or Pythagoras Phalaris, or fair Nireus foul Thersites, it had nothing impaired their true reputation. So it is in applying good titles to bad persons: they are not for the same in any more estimation, with such as be of understanding. When thieves by a common phrase are termed good-fellows, & light huswives are called honest women, neither the one nor the other are the honester for that nomination. Those who are ordinarily called by the name of jesuits, do little that may savour of the spirit of jesus; unless to seduce youth, to inveigle & beguile the wealthy, to play all tricks of Machiavelli, to conspire the death of Princes, to plot how to set kingdoms in combustion, & cunningly to sow secret discord & sedition, be the imitation of our blessed Redeemer; which no man but one inspired by the Devil may acknowledge. What man of learning is ignorant, that the Saracens are descended from Hagar, & from her son Ishmael, and therefore should be called properly Hagarens or Ismalites, as the 
e Psal. 83. 6. 1. Chr. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉.  Scripture doth warrant. And yet as it was observed by Sozomen, more than a thousand years agone, to the end that they may avoid the imputation of bastardy by Ishmael, and of baseness by Hagar, who was but a bondwoman, they take 
f Sozom. Eccl. Hist. 6. 38.  to them the name of Saracens, as if they were derived from Sara the right wife of Abraham. Neither can there ought be said, why the Romanists should be the true Church, because they are called Catholics, but the same may be said for these Mahometans, why they should be the sons of the free woman, & not of the bond. For the name is most ancient, and they are every where known by it, & if Saracens be but spoken, echone that hath ever heard of them, understandeth that they and they alone, are meant by it, & in Asia & Europe & Africa, yea in America also, this by custom runneth currant without controlment, & yet we know that it is neither so nor so. I might add more examples, as of those who are commonly, not only in England but in other parts of Europe, called Aegyptiaus, and yet neither they nor their forefathers ever came near to Egypt.  
8: Our Seminary men therefore do seed their followers ', but with draff & husks in steed of corn, when they lay before them such meat as this is: & they who live by such diet are not fed but corrupted & poisoned by it. Let matters be well weighed, and there is nothing farther from Catholicism than Popery is. For shall wetake the word as it signifieth? The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is universally or generally, 
Augustin. lib. 3. contra ●…audēt.  and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth import universal, and so the Catholic Church in our Creed, or elsewhere, doth signify the Church universally diffused. That of the Romanists may not truly be reported to be so. For as the Congregations in Asia, & those under Prester-Iohn do no way admit thereof, so those of Greece with many thousands in Europe, do not consort with it, & yet are Christians too, howsoever the Pope doth repudiate them as schismatics, because they will not kiss his feet. How the Universal should in this case be so limited, as to extend no farther than one Particular, our Logic cannot find. 
g Contra haeres. c. 3.  Vincēti●… Lir●…s doth define that to be Catholic, which is believed every where, at all times, and of all. The Papists cannot truly aver that this agreeth to their Profession. Or shall we take Catholic in that sense as our jesuits seem to take it, when they (as the secular 
h Sparing Discoveri●… of English jesuits.  Priests report of them) would appropriate the faith Catholic to the temporal government of the king Catholic, as if it were a principle that all of tha●… Belief, must for their bodies be under his Regiment, as for their souls under the Roman Bishop; yet they will not be in the right; since many of our English Recusants make the world believe, that they have no great mind to bear a Spanish yoke, howsoever some other secretly Hispaniolized, & little less than dis-Englished, or traitorified by the jesuits, do earnestly but most foolishly and unadvisedly thirst after it. But a great number also in France & Italy, & other Popish parts of Christendom, would for themselves forbidden those banes. Or must we expound Catholic for Orthodox & true, in which meaning that of Saint Austen may be; The Christian faith 
i De moribus Eccles. Cathol. lib. 1. 18.  is not any where but in the Catholic discipline or instruction; & unto which sense, use & ordinary custom hath now brought the word? Even so they are most far from it. For while they strive about the name, they have lost the thing: they keep the shell, but have parted with the kernel: while they lay hold on the Candlestick, some other is run away with the light. Their case is like that of the king's soldiers of 
k Socrat. l. 7. 20.  Persia, who keeping the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or Immortales, were well proved to be otherwise, when by the Roman armies they were distressed, slain, & showed to be mortal. Let them lay aside these verbal & titulary gloss, & make plain out of the Scripture, that they maintain the same faith, which Christ and his Apostles taught, & then they do somewhat. But they are fallen from it, yea from the sound profession, which was in the days of the Fathers & Doctors of the Primitive Church, & therefore that which was true of their times, is not communicable now to Popery. No not that of Saint Austen, whereupon they have a main desire to fasten, The 
l De vera Religione. cap 7.  Christian Religion is to be held by us, & the communion of that Church which is Catholic, and is named Catholic not only of her own friends, but also of all her enemies. For will or nile the very Heretics, & favourers of schisms, when they speak not with their own but with strangers, they call the Catholic church nothing else but the Catholic church. For they cannot be understood, unless they distinguish her by that name, whereby she is called of all the world. This was spoken of the whole number of Christians in the world, which embraced the right faith, not of the Roman Church only. And those who now are devoted unto Rome, do as much differ from the purity and integrity of their old predecessors, as Babylon doth differ from Zion. Then in opposition to Heretics, which were but in corners and few places, the faith which either Rome or any right Christian city held, might be called Catholic; but now that which the Pope maintaineth, may itself be reckoned no better than Heretical perfidiousness, which the farther it is spread, the worse it is with God's flock.  
9 To set them therefore strait, by bringing them from such vizards & painted shows to the matter, it is not any name whereunto men are directed, for finding out the truth, but 
m joh. 5. 39  Search the Scriptures, saith Christ, for in them you think to have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me. And as they testify of Christ, so do they also of his Spouse, as we find in divers of the ancient Fathers. Cyprian saith, 
n De Lapsis.  He is not joined to the Church, who is separated from the Gospel. He who beareth the name of Origene on the Canticles; 
o Homil. 3.  A good purpose, and the believing of right opinions, doth make a soul to be in the house of the Church. But St. chrysostom or the Auctor of the Imperfect work upon St. Matthew, doth yet speak more plainly: 
p Homil. 49.  He who will know what is (or which is) the true Church of Christ, whence should he know it but only by the Scriptures? The Lord therefore knowing that in the last days there would be so great confusion of things, doth therefore command, that the Christians which are in Christianity, being willing to receive the firmness of a true faith, should fly to no other thing but to the Scriptures. Otherwise if they look to other things, they shall be scandalised and perish, not understanding which is the true Church. By which our Romanists may see, that it is not a naked name, nor any other matter of all that uncertain rabble, which the writer of this Pamphlet hereafter subjoineth, that can be our direction, which is the Church, or where is the truth, but only the holy Scriptures. And as chrysostom hath, 
q Homil. 33. in Act.  If any agree to them, he is a Christian: if any fight against them he is far from this rule. The word of the Lord is the sure foundation, & he who buildeth on any thing besides this, setteth his house but upon the 
r Mat. 7. 26.  sand, and while he thinketh that he standeth for the Faith, and for the Church, he is enemy to both; as those were to whom Leo sometimes Bishop of Rome wrote thus. 
s Leo Epist. 83 ad Episcopos Palestinos.  you think that you deal for the faith, and you go against the faith. You are armed in the name of the Church, and you fight against the Church. Let him who will farther be satisfied in this point, read what a learned man hath written upon this Argument, that 
s joh. Rainold. Thes. 5.  The Church of Rome is neither the catholics Church, nor a sound member of the Catholic Church; and if he be not obdurate, he shall never need to doubt farther in that behalf. 
t In praefat. De triplici hominis officio.  UUeston a most vainglorious, but shallow fellow, at Douai, hath vaunted that if he had leisure, he would beat that servant of God to dust. I fear he will never have leisure to grapple with him, unless it be here and there to skulk out at some hole or corner, and run back again, I mean here and there snatch a saying of his falsely alleged, & unconscionably perverted, as already he hath done. But if he be the man that he pretendeth to be, and I may request any thing of him, let him first begin directly to answer the Thesis before named, and we shall by his carriage therein, judge what is his true strength. I would have Weston fall about this work, for it is of too high a pitch for my good Doctor Hill.   

THE THIRD REASON. Unity and Consent.  T. HILL. 
THe Catholic Roman Religion, being received by so many Nations in Africa, Asia, & Europa, and in this last age in both the Indies, hath, notwithstanding such variety of wits, such diversity of manners, such multitude of tongues & languages, such distance of places, such numbers of matters to be believed, yet ever kept Unity & Concord in such peaceable & consonant manner, as never any one in Englandor Ireland, which are the uttermost part of the West-world dissented or disagreed in any point of doctrine concerning faith from him which lived in the utmost parts of the East. But whosoever they be or in what place or Region soever they remain in all the world, if they be Catholics or Papists, (if you will call them so) they all have one Faith, one Belief, one Service, one number of Sacraments, one Obedience, one judgement in all, with other like points of Union and Unity, which maketh a giver all Uniformity also in the peace of men's minds, and to be brief, they have all one heart and one soul. 
Act. 4   G. ABBOT. 
1 WHen that Italian Didapper, who entitled himself, 
a Praesat in explicatio. triginta sigillorum.  Philotheus lordanus Brunus Nola●…us, magis elaborata Theologia Doctor, etc. with a name longer than his body, had in the train of Alasco the Polish Duke, seen our University in the year 1583. his heart was on fire, to make himself by some worthy exploit, to become famous in that celebrious place, Not long after returning again, when he had more boldly then wisely, got up into the highest place of our best & most renowned school, stripping up his sleeves like some juggler, and telling us much of chentrum & chirculus & chircumforenchia (after the pronunciation of his Country language) he undertook among very many other matters to set on foot the opinion of Copernicus, that the earth did go round, and the heavens did stand still; whereas in truth it was his own head which rather did run round, & his brains did not stand stil. When he had read his first Lecture, a grave man, & both then and now of good place in that University, seemed to himself, some where to have read those things which the Doctor propounded; but silencing his conceit till he heard him the second time, remembered himself then, and repairing to his study, found both the former and later Lecture, taken almost verbatim out of the works of 
b De vita coelitus comparanda.  Marsilius Fic●…us. Wherewith when he had acquainted that rare & excellent Ornament of our land, the Reverend Bishop of Durham that now is, but then Deane of Christs-Church, it was at the first thought fit, to notify to the Illustrious Reader, so much as they had discovered. But afterward he who gave the first light, did most wisely entreat, that once more they might make trial of him, and if he persevered to abuse himself, and that Auditory the third time, they should then do their pleasure. After which, jordanus continuing to be idem jordanus, they caused some to make known unto him their former patience, & the pains which he had taken with them, & so with great honesty of the little man's part, there was an end of that matter. If I had been at Palempine with you Doctor Hill in your chamber, when you were writing this worthy work, I should have dealt so charitably with you, as after the first & second reason to tell you, that some one or other of the Heretics in England, would soon disery, where you had borrowed your stuff: but when I had perceived, that you had been bold with 
c Motiv. 27.  M. Bristol for this third Reason also, I would have entreated you to have done somewhat of yourself, or to let all alone, lest some body should tell you, that by D. Fulke the most part of your book was answered before it was made. But since I was then absent from you, & now it is too late to stop you at the third stone, you must be content to bear your own praise; and I satisfy myself, that assoon as I can conveniently, I acquaint you with it. And hereafter it may be that we shall receive from you, 
d Terent in Prologue. Eunuchi.  Nullum est ●…ā dictum, quod non dictum sit priùs, or some other Apology for such borrowing.  
2. That your Antichristian poison hath infected too many in Europe, & some other places, we cannot but acknowledge, & exceedingly grieve at it also; were it not that God had foretold, that there should be such an 
e 2. Thes. 2, 3 Apoc. 17. 2.  Apostasy, & Princes & Nations should be intoxicated by the Whore: but that the extent of your infection, is not so large in Asia & Africa as you predicate here, I shall have occasion to show you, in my answer to your fift Reason. You pretend that, notwithstanding such variety of wits, manners, languages, places & matters to be believed, (you should have put the sixth also, as 
f Bristol. Motiv. 27.  your Mr. doth, such difference of opinions amongst learned men, which you did leave out, lest you should insinuate to any, but a very favourable Reader, a contradiction to your own position) such unity hath been kept, as that in faith & doctrine, he who liveth in the most Western countries of the old inhabited world, hath not dissented from him, that resideth in those of the East. where by the way you fail a little in your Geography, as well as in your Divinity: for it is much doubted of Ireland, but certainly known, that England is not so far to the West as Gallitia, or Portugal: but in Africa, the parts about Morocco do without controversy exceed them all Put this therefore in your negligences. But all Papists in the world have one faith, one belief, one Service, one number of Sacraments, one Obedience, one judgement in all, and the peace of their minds is such through their uniformity that they have all one heart and one soul. What their sympathy of affection in other matters besides Religion is, if we could not learn by 
g Guicciard lib. 9  Pope julius the second, in person making war against Mirandula, & the French, then also lying in the field when all was covered with snow: or by 
h Natal. Comes Hist. l. 9  King Philip the second of Spain, most eagerly watering by his General the Duke of Alva, against Pope Paulus the fourth himself: or by the 
i Conestag. lib. 7. Histo.  Spaniards prosecution against Don Antonio and his Portugese's: or by the much love, which Henry the third King of France with the Duke of Espernon, did bear to the Guise and the Leaguers, & they to them; or by the long continued 
k The estate of English fugitives.  factions between our discontented English Fugitives beyond the seas; yet our Romanists at home would lately teach us; where the jesuits and the Arch. Priest with his adherents on the one side, and diverse of the Seculars on the other side, have exercised such contentions, and almost deadly feud each against other, that all England and a great part of Europe hath rung of the same; yea the Pope himself and his Cardinals are no strangers thereunto. And by your leave, the rest of the Papists being either at liberty, or restrained, throughout this kingdom, have not been all of one heart, one obedience, one judgement about these businesses; but there hath been not only dislike, but intestine hatred also in some of them, against the blabbing Priests, and the party opposite to the jesuits.  
3 And do all Papists agree in matters of doctrine, of faith, and of belief, when the 
l Quodlib. fol. 21. in margin. A dialogue between a secular Priest and a lay gentleman fol. 97.  jesuits are charged to give toleration to come to the Protestants Churches, and the Seculars do withstand it? When the jesuits uphold the Bull of Pope Pius the 5. & the Seculars do question it? When the jesuits maintain, that the Excommunication Consistorially given against her late Majesty, is a right and Papal sentence: but the Seminarians & their abetters, avouch it to be a matter of fact, and not of faith, and therefore the Pope may there in err. And is there one belief when you cannot doctrinally agree, whither the Pope or the General Council be the greater? When not long since 
m Pigh. Eccles. Hier. lib. 1. 2.  Papists did maintain, that the authority of the Church was above the Scriptures, but the 
n Bellar. de Concil. lib. 2. 12.  jesuits now deny it; and the 
o In Gal. 2. 2.  Rhemistes as moderators cannot well tell what to make of it, but in some senses rather bend to the prerogative of the Church? And as you have reform many other things in Popery, so is your service the same? When your Breviaries or Porteises are so much altered since the time of the Council of Trent, and so many shameful things put out, which if they were impious or idolatrous, your people before those days were in a pretty pickle. As Georgius & Timotheus being more nasute than their predecessors, did purge their 
p Socr. Eccles Hist. 7. 6.  Arrianisme, and cleared it of many the blasphemies of Arius, retaining such as were more plausible: so Pius the 5. cleansed the Breviary of many absurdities, and held only those things which he supposed were more defensible. 
q Bellar de verbo Dei. lib. 2. 11.  In your new Missals also many texts are altered, from that which was in the old. Your Legendaries in former times were read in the midst of your Congregations, & accepted for good truth: yet now you reject your ancient books, insomuch that 
r Motiv. 5.  Bristol himself disclaimeth uncertain or false Miracles, which they read, saith he, in I know not what Legenda Aurea: so contemptuously he speaketh of it: and now that only must go for currant, which 
s De Viti●… Sanctorun.  Surius & Lippoman have revised and allowed. Nay hath the Church of Rome ever had one belief, when the foundations of their faith, in which, will they nill they, their soul and salvation must be acknowledged to consist, are and have been so and such among them, that no man can well tell, what to make or determine of them; I mean the Scripture which is unto them as a dead law, and the Pope which is as the living Magistrate. For first touching the Scriptures, we know that with them the Latin Vulgar Edition is only authentical, and so the 
s Session. 4.  Council of Trent hath defined it; whereas the Originals of the Hebrew and Greek, which are the first and clearest fountains, are but basely esteemed by many of them, insomuch that they 
t Prologue ad Lector. ante li. 1. Esdr.  who put out the Complutensian Bible, say that they have set the Latin there, between the Greek and Hebrew, as Christ was upon the Cross between the two thieves. Now what can any man make of this their Latin Copy, when besides the difference of it from the Originals, (against which we most except) it is in itself so often altered, and chopped and changed? for beside the Castigations & Corrections of the Lovanists and Coleinists, and I cannot tell how many, the Pope Sixtus 5. did cause it to be revewed, & 〈◊〉 professing that he had amended very much of it, he made it to be new printed▪ & 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 praefixa Biblijs Sixti quinti.  prefixed a Bull before it, testifying that he in his own person had gone through the whole Copy, and judged of it, yea amended the faults escaped in the Printers Press, with his own hand, & therefore did give charge by that his Constitution, which was evermore to stand in force, that it should never afterward be altered, or any other Copy of the Vulgar Edition be used. And if an●…e did attempt contrary to his Decree, than he should inc●…rre the displeasure of Almighty GOD, and of the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul. This was published but in the year 1589. and within three years after, Anno 1592. cometh Pope Clement the 8. and under a colour that his Predecessor Sixtus had intended torevise his Bible once again, but that he died before he could effect it, he putteth out another, in many hundreds of texts differing from the former, so that the diversities compared together, do make a 〈◊〉 pretty book; and there is little more variety 
〈◊〉 Bellum Papale Thom●… james.  for material points, between the translation used in the Church of England, and the Rhemish Testament, then is between these two. And since the next Pope who succeed, will think scorn but to have as much authority as his Anteceslour, it may be chopped not only once more but many times: so that the Romish Church may be said, to be so far of from Unity in Verity, that of certainty they have not the Scriptures, whereon their faith must be built, but they in former times, and these in this present age have various grounds to rest themselves upon. Secondly as now it is with the Scriptures, so it hath been heretofore with the Popes, when they have had 23. several Schisms, Antipapes being erected the one against the other, and those broils sometimes continuing, for scores of years together without interruption; so that all Christendom by partaking with them, hath been in an uproar, and thousands by that means have been murdered. Now if it be such an Article of faith; that the Church must be believed, yea believed in, and this Church is the Roman Church; and is ministerially inspired by the head, and the head is not only like bifidus 〈◊〉, a hill with two tops, but triplex Geryon, or tric●…ps 〈◊〉 witl●… three parts, as it was a little 
x Vide C●…cil. Constantions.  before the Council of Constance, three Popes usurping at one time, and every one of these do curse to the deepest bottom of the lowest hell all that stand against them; nay all who are not with them; and in their Consistories, if they be Popes, they cannot err. Will any man, who hath his wits about him think, that here is one Faith, and one 〈◊〉 in the Romish Cockpit? And especially when these Popes, shall against the Antipapes proclaim Croisadoes, that men are to mark themselves with the sign of the Cross, and fight against their adversaries, as against Turks, Saracens and Infidels, the known enemies of the Christian profession. Hear this ye Papists & blush, when you mention your Unity.  T. HILL. 
BUT on the other side if you look into the d●…ings of Protestants, you shall see such dissensions, such divisions, such schis●…s, such contra●…tie of opinions, as the like was never among the Arrians, among the Eutychians, among the Donatists, among the Nestorians, among the Valentinians, 〈◊〉 yet am●…ngest the most ●…arring Heretics that ever were. So as you may plainly behold in Luther his seed the self same thing that the Poets feign of 〈◊〉 his sowing; you may see 
Ovid. M●…tam. lib. 3. judic. 7.  the Madianites and Amalekites in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against the people of God; builders of the tower of Babel, accusers of ch●…st Susanna: for they are not only different, and divided from the general body of Catholics in Christendom, with whom they were v●…ited 〈◊〉, but amongst themselves they have implacable wars.  G. ABBOT. 
4. IN your whole book you range from the truth: but here not the least of all. There are some few points in differenc●… between the Professors of the Gospel, but you heartily could wish that there were more; even as an ancient Roman, the more to satisfy the ambition and bloody covetousness of his Countrymen, did thus pray, Let 
y Tack. de morib. Germano●….  there remain and continue in those Nations, if not the love of us, yet the hatred of themselves, speaking of the old Germans & other bordering Nations. But God be praised, there is not such disagreement, and multiplicity of sects, as was among the old Arrians, who variously contended with the professors of their own Heresy. That the Eutychians, Donatists, Nestorians and Valentinians, did very much i●…rre among themselves we do not read, unless you mean each sect against other, which fitteth not your purpose: since even yourselves do think it no disgrace, to disagree with all in the world, whom you account Heretics, and especially the Protestants. Neither are they the seed of Luther, who as you say agree like Cadmus his men, or the Amalekites and Madianites, or the builders of Babel, or the slanderers of Susanna, but they are known Heretics who are sprung up since that time, as Servetus, the Anabaptists, and other of like sort, being the seed of the 
z Mat. 13 25 28.  〈◊〉 man, who when men were a sleep came and sowed tars. And albeit some of these might go out from us, yet 
a 1. joh. 2. 19  they were not of us, as you might know by Luther's writing even at the first against these 
b Sleidan. lib. 10.  Anabaptists, (professing that the same Devil who set them on work, was but a gross and foolish Devil) and 
c Instit. li. 1. 13.  calvin's against Servetus, and others against other. Yeam●…ny men of worth of our part, have not only by preaching disclaimed them, but by written books have confuted them; with much more zeal & diligence then any of your side. And where the reformed Churches are, the Christian magistrates being taught out of the word, and called upon by their Pastors, have censured with severe punishment, yea sometimes so far as 
d Centur. 16 lib. 2. ca 34. & 22.  to death, such as have broke out to the maintaining of any very impious and blasphemous doctrine. With these it is that they have implacable hatred; and yet not with their persons, but with their opinions; for they love 
e August de civet. Dei. li. 14. 6.  that which God made in them, but hate that which the Devil hath infused or inserted. But the Professors of the Gospel do not in main points vary one from another, nor yet from the Orthodox Church, although they conjoin not with the servants of Antichrist, who being Pseudo-Catholikes do arrogate to themselves the name of Catholics. And from these that they are come forth, they are right glad; lest remaining in Babylon, and 
f Apoc 18. 〈◊〉  partaking of her sins, they should receive also of her plagues. It was no dishonour or hurt unto Lot, that he 
g Gen. 19 12  came out of Sodom, when God did call him, but it was his safety and happiness: for if he had remained with them, he had perished together with them.  
5. The matter wherewithal you may justly charge them, is that opinion of Luther, and some of his scholars, concerning the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Where, as he d●…ffereth from your monstrous conceit of Transubstantiation, so bending too far another way, he imagineth that not only bread remaineth after consecration (which is very true) but the body of Christ also consubstantiated with the bread. And for the maintenance of this, first groweth here-unto, that in the bread, with the bread, and under the bread, or some way of those, is the realty of Christ's person; & secondly that by the almighty power of God, he is every where invisibly; upon which ground the upholders of that doctrine, are by some termed Ubiquitaries, and are concerning that point rightly refuted by 
h Bellar. de Christo. li. 3 cap. 11.  Bellarmine. This was in Luther ●…rror, & lapsu●… human●…, which the Lord suffered in him, as he hath permitted the like both for opinion, & slips of life too, in diverse of his Saints, that thereby we might learn that men bè men, and that this world, is 
i Bernard. de modo benè vivendi. cap. 10.  via, non patria, the way and not our country, a place of defect and not of true perfection, the habitation of men and not of Angels. This consideration doth wholesomely humble us, and maketh us more earnestly to pray, that we may have a right understanding in all things, and that we may be guided by the Spirit into all truth expedient for us. By this also we are taught not to dote too much upon men, but only to follow them so far as they do 
k 1. Cor. 11. 〈◊〉.  follow Christ. And it is no shame at all, but rather a commendation to our Churches, that whereas he himself, whom we honour as an admirable servaunt of God, doth serve from the path, be it little or be it more, we rather follow the way, then him. But some have written that Luther before he died, relinquished that his own opinion, saying that he had gone too far●… in the matter of the Sacrament, as the 
l Acta Colloquij Mul●…unens.  Ministers of Heidelberge do affirm in a Dutch book; as 
m Chron. lib. 4.  Genebrarde himself relateth unto us. Indeed it had been to be wished, that all who came after him had been of his mind, (if that were his mind) and had sought peace, as Philip Melancthon did▪ but all the scholars of Luther would not subscribe thereunto, but some have divulgated books against them, whom in their heat they have called Zwinglians, Calvinists, and Sacramentaries, & so having stirred up the flames of contention, have given occasions of joy to the enemies of them both, who will soon with an 
n joy at the hurt of other.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 take comfort in their evil. That is the fruit of Christian men's contention, as long since Gregory Nazianzen could say of a difference between some Bishops, about whom the people at Constantinople were divided, 
o Ora●…. 10.  My Tragedy is nothing else to our enemies but a Comedy. Therefore it is not a little, which we have taken from the Churches, and added to the stage. I do wish that the Lutherans & their con-combatants had remembered this, as for some other reasons, so to stop the mouth of the common adversary. But being as it is, we do not doubt but they both are Gods servants if they live according to the Christian rules of their profession, since they both do rightly hold the 
p 1. Cor. 3. 11  foundation, that is to say, Faith in jesus Christ, and justification by his blood only. We read of one called 
q Sozom. Eccl. Histor. lib. 1. 14.  Eutychianus, who wen●… astray being in opinion a Novatian; yet he was much esteemed by the good Emperor Constantine, and there were very pregnant testimonies that he was the child of God. 
r Euse. Eccl. Hist. l. 3. 33.  Ireneus held the error of the Chiliasts, And justine 
s Dialog. c●… Tryph. Iud.  Martyr embraced the same conceit; and yet who dare seclude them from the fellowship of the faithful? So we doubt not, but the maintainers of the doctrine both of Zwinglius & of Luther, are as well jointly members of the Catholic Church, and Communion of Saints, as 
t Concil. Carthag. in Cyprian.  Cyprian was on the one side with his African Bishops, and Cornelius was on the other side with his Bishops of Europe, albeit these had much contention each with other, and died in difference of opinion, concerning rebaptising them who were baptized by Heretics. So that (the Lords name be praised) howsoever we could wish, that neither formerly nor now, there were any such examples, yet this contention is not the first, and it is but one, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as y●… the Pamph●… would have●…. We will 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  T. HILL 
I I would you did but see what I have seen in these Countr●…, as 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 ●…ds, 〈◊〉 & di●… of Luther his of-spring●… a●… of the Muntzerans, Anabaptists, Adam●…, Steblerians, sabbataries, Clan●… 〈◊〉 Gart●…der, Manifestarians, D●…monians, Common holder's, ●…pers, Howling Anabaptists, Davidge or gi●…, Memno●…, Polygamists, Signifiers, Figurers, Valewers, Pledgers, Presentaries, ●…tamorphists, Iud●…sts, Neutersacramentaries, Image-breakers, Zealons' Lutherans, Soft Lutherans, or Interimi●…, New Arrians, Trinitaries, Hell-maisters, Hell-tormentors, Antid●…monians, Amidorfians, Antadiaphorists, Antosiand●…lans, Anti-Swanck ●…dians, Anti-Calvinists, H●…d-impositors, 〈◊〉, S●…s, Invisibilists, S●…turians, Adiaphorists, 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Luther●…-Calvinists, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pen●…, 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉, ●…drians, Sta●…, Antistan●…, New-Man●…chees, St●…bergers & of such lik●… 〈◊〉 which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 out of the dregs of Luther's doctrine, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…e 〈◊〉 Protestant's all.  G. ABBOT. 
6 IN what country you have heretofore lived, it is hard for we to tell. In England you were when you published this 〈◊〉 & had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 elsewhere with you, when you penned this work, (if else where you did p●… 〈◊〉) he should sc●… have 〈◊〉 two or three persons in 〈◊〉, of those sects which 〈◊〉 you ●…cite. But h●…m ●…th he 〈◊〉 what you ●…we, he 〈◊〉 have ●…lying before you, a ●…de book of th●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Apo●… St●…, which was thirty years since 
Apology of Fride●…. ●…taphyl.  〈◊〉 into Eng●…, by our Countryman Stapleton. This Sraphy●… you follow in these untrue reports of yours and from his book English●…, you shamefully ●…ke all these 〈◊〉, word for word. While I read them, as also the 〈◊〉 and Cities which elsewhere you 〈◊〉 
Ration. 〈◊〉.  I think upon a C●… book, which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…ped to●…, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 spirit. In Latin letters th●… it is, 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉, El, Ad●…i, 〈◊〉, M●…ssias, S●…er, E●…nel, 〈◊〉, A●…ha, Paracle●…, Propheta, S●…des, K●…s, Pant●…r, all which should enforce the spi●…, to do as the Coniure●…●…oulde have h●…. Such a ●…umble and bugbear you propo●…de unto us here: and the Heresies w●…h you 〈◊〉 are so much the liker to these words used in Conjuration, because 〈◊〉 these for the most part do signify one thing, even that immaculate essence and omnipotent being, GOD, how●… it they be wickedly applied, so for these good fellows whom you muster here, many of them differ little in their opinions, although you to make a ●…ourish do name them severally; like a b●…dde Captain who keeping in his list, the names of soldiers who are slain or gone, knoweth how to make use of dead p●…y for his own benefit. But this is the cust●… of you 〈◊〉 to make a show with names; 〈◊〉 ●…en 〈◊〉 a C●…loge, an●… to the same purpose, hath 
x In Epistol. apolog●…t.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, In 〈◊〉 base answer for 〈◊〉 unto D. 〈◊〉. And may it not be, that divers of these whom you both name, may be good Christians; as the 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the Scri●…s, if they ho●… no wo●… do●… 〈◊〉 their titles may import? As S●…nt 〈◊〉 
y De haere●… ad Quod vul●…. Deum.  remembreth, that 〈◊〉 in rehearsing of Heresies, did differ from Philastr●…, and 〈◊〉 from him, because that seemed to one of them to be an Heresy, which did not so seem to another; so certain●… if some wise man either of 〈◊〉 your sid●…, should sca●… the tr●… opinions of all whom 〈◊〉 yo●… 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 would prove 〈◊〉 many to be no Heresy, wh●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do condemn. But we praise the everlasting Lord●…, that wh●…as in 〈◊〉 there is as flourishing a Church, as in any 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 world, we here kn●… the names of 〈◊〉 of them, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the p●…sons of none of them, who hold such 〈◊〉 ●…tions, And we ver●…ly believe that you lurking in our own co●…ey, have to do 〈◊〉 as 〈◊〉 of them. But when yo●… ha●… done 〈◊〉 that favour, 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 th●…se good 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and 〈◊〉 they 〈◊〉 hold, you shall understand▪ our 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And in the m●…ne time kn●… you, that 〈◊〉 taught 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doctrine, neither do the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 challenge to them, if they hold aught 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; 〈◊〉 ●…emne them and writ●… against 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 been d●…red.  
7 But ●…o allow you so much, as in any probability you can pretend, th●… since Luther●… time, so many several opinions have spr●…g up as five & fifty, (for of so many you would make show) yea & that the most of th●… would willingly shroud themselves under 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, yet doth this (with understanding People) ●…ke any 〈◊〉 against that truth, which either we or Luther did profess? For might not the same have been objected before his death, to S●…. 〈◊〉 the Evangelist, which you here object against us? 〈◊〉 of the remainder of the malicious jews might thus h●… said. We all agreed upon the law of Moses, till you came & in●… 〈◊〉; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 unity for our sacrifices, & concord about our 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 harmony of consent was every way to be found among us. But now while you talk of jesus this new Saviour, yo●… cannot agree among yourselves, what he is, or how to be served. You 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 many ●…cts, & those jarring ●…h with other, the scholars of 〈◊〉 Mag●…, of 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉, of 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉, whereof some deny the ●…-hood, & some deny the 〈◊〉 of your Christ, and some vary in other matt●…: And you have 〈◊〉 
z Apoc. 〈◊〉 ●…5.  〈◊〉 and we cannot tell how many kinds, and the●… 〈◊〉 will b●… 〈◊〉, and pretend 〈◊〉 dra●… their do●… from you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 th●… Apost●…. S●…. 〈◊〉 hearing th●…, would not have been a●…shed at all; but would have signified, that there was 〈◊〉 ●…ght way which was chalked out, in the writings of the old & 〈◊〉 Test●…, & 〈◊〉 b●…ing walked in, wo●…d b●…ng men unto life; & th●…●…st 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by●… 〈◊〉, which 〈◊〉 had ope●…, 〈◊〉 being 〈◊〉 to draw some thither, unto their own 〈◊〉. But if you will look lower to the fourth age after Christ, 〈◊〉 shall find that you●… objection might mo●…●…ly have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ge●…es, in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 o●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈…〉 you many strifes, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I know not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I should choose, what I should prefer. Everyone such, I say the truth. 〈◊〉 I should believe I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, since I am 〈◊〉 of the Scriptures, and they on both sides do pretend the same. Yet his Conclusion is, that 〈◊〉 of the Scripture, and such necessary consequences, as are drawn from thence, the judgement what is truth, is to 〈◊〉 had. But what small unity was there among the Christians, when he wrote this? Or when Saint Austen mentioned more than 
b De haeresib. ad quod vult Deum.  fourscore heresies, which had arisen in the Church; all whom but for tediousness I would retire from him, as also one of Epiphanius and Theodoret, that the Reader might see that we need not to be frighted, with the pretended show of your 55. Now might not such a one as that Symmachus was, who under the Emperor Valentinian, & in the time of St Ambrose, made so earnest & effectualla 
c Ambros. Epist  speech, that Ethnicisive might be restored in Rome, and altars might be permitted to their Paimme Gods, jupiter, Mercury, Apollo, I●…o and the rest, have disputed in the same manner against the Christian faith, as you now do reason? While we retained the service of our formerly known Maiores & minores Dij, we agreed upon that worship which every God should have, we knew their Temples, their altars, their sacrifices, their Priests, their feasts, times and seasons, we had unity in our hearts; and sweet harmony in our speeches. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which you have ●…hed among us, we see nothing 〈◊〉, to which we may cleave▪ for how should we be resolved what is to be embraced, when you cannot agree among yourselves, what is the 〈◊〉 and right way? And the dif●… is not, that some go to the 〈◊〉 hand, & 〈◊〉 the other, 〈◊〉 a man had 〈◊〉 many hands, 〈◊〉 
d Plutarch. de multitude. a●…corum.  Br●… 〈◊〉 which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 d●…ed hands was imagined to have, there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 some be wanting, who with 〈◊〉 dis-joined 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉, would 〈◊〉 to every one of them. If Symmachus had spoke thus, as he●… 〈◊〉 not behind hand to utter other 〈◊〉 she●… available 〈◊〉 his purpose, St. Ambrose who answered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 objections, ●…d 〈◊〉 have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this, 〈◊〉 would 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉 ●…Line●… and the same individed truth, should be hemmed about with many different doctrines of Heresy.  T. HILL. 
AND what divisions you have there in England, you may in some sort know, who do (as I think) now and then hear Preachers of different doctrine. What combats your Bishops, councillors, and moderate sort of Protestants have to defend their Parlimentary Religion, and the Queen's Proceed as they term it, against Puritans, Brownists, & other such like good fellows, that by show of Scriptures impugn it, you cannot but know and see with your eyes. Neither can it be answered, that the Sects here rehearsed differ one from another only in matters of small moment, for they differ and disagree in weighty points of our salvation; as might here easily be declared, but that it would not benefit this mine intended brevity so to do.  G. ABBOT. 
8 WHen you have put on your spectacles to see, & have picked your ears to hear, you and all your confederates can neither justly see nor hear (Gods name be blessed therefore) that either at this time, or at the divulging of this your treatise, there be or were any differences of opinion in England, concerning the faith. Our Preachers do not differ, or teach divers doctrines in any of their Sermons. We have for our rule the old and new Testament, & the 
e Articul. Relig. in Synodo. 1562.  Confession of our Church in the Articles of Religion, set out by the warrant of the Scripture alone: and to these as to the Analogy of faith we do cleave, and there is no graduate in our Universities, and much less, Preachers and Pastors in our churches, but subscribe thereunto. And if heretofore, there have been some few Brownists mislead, by a man who afterward was sorry for his own oversight, the name of them now (as I think) is not to be heard of among us. And such as you call Puritan, did never differ from the rest in any point of substance, but about circumstances and ceremonies, as cap, surplice and such like, and about the manner of Ecclesiastical regiment; even as your secular Priests lately did not think fit to be ruled by your Archpriest and his Assistants, and yet Garnet your Provincial, and Persons the rector of your English Seminary at Rome, and the Pope himself (whether by any surreptitious Breve, or no, do you look) did think fit to have them so ordered. But never were the counsellors of Estate, nor the Bishops of this kingdom, so disquieted with those does agreements, as the Court of Rome & the Cardinals there, have been with your ga●…les in England, in as much as the bruit of these differences here, went but to the Bishop of the Diocese, or the High Commission at London, but your broils & brabbles have passed the Sea, crossed France, traversed the Alps, & have never ceased running, till they have rapped at the gate of 
f Appella●… 〈◊〉 Clement. 8.  Clemens Octav●…. What the issue of them farther will be, time must discover; but of this we are assured, that to your great discontentment, and to the end that we might all the better observe you, in our late sovereigns days of most happy memory, the fatherly wisdom of our ch●…stest Church governors, and the moderate temper of other men, being not so far of from seemly conformity as heretofore, did to the joy of all good men reasonably well cure that wound, and salve that sore, and so the shame was taken away from Israel. And had not this been: yet if your brevity (which is but a shuffling colour, to make show of some things which are not) had been turned into one years or seven years longity, you could not have showed, that in substantial points of faith there was variance among us. And therefore for that matter you do well to do as you do, that is, put up your pipes & make no more noise. Yet I cannot so leave you, but put you in mind concerning Protestant's & Puritans, that it is probable that the Controversies which then were; by your sly & secret conveyances were the more forwarded; at the least you Romanistes did your best, by hypocrites and other your naughty instruments to continued them. For the practice of your religion, being of late nothing else but mischievous policy, your Emissaries were instructed at their coming into England to soothe both sides, and to commend them, that so they might persist in their opinions. And here I shall open to the world some thing of your cunning, which is not known to every body. There 
g At Rheims Anno 1579.  are certain instructions, which, Doctor Allen in a long continuated speech, (which he dictated to his auditors, and they in writing took it from his mouth) did bestow on such Priests, as were then to be sent from the Seminary in France, into England. And these were to inform them, how they should deal with all sorts of people, to pervert them from their faith. Thus therefore he advertiseth them, If you chance to deal with a Puritan, you must say unto him, Truly brother for you, there is more hope than of these that be Protestants, because they for fear of the Prince and the law, are ready to say and believe any thing, and therefore me thinketh they be Atheists: but for you there is more hope, being either hot or cold. If you deal with a Protestant, tell him there is more hope of him, then of such rash brained Puritans, because they with Religion have put of all humanity, and civility, with all other good manners. Who would not think that for mischievous devises, this head of Allens, was soon after worthy to be covered with a Cardinal's hat? But by the leave of our Seculars, who strive to magnify him, he did not learn this of Saint Peter, but rather of Sir Nicholas Machiavelli, a man of their good acquaintance. Hear, with our Seminary Priests, both Protestants and Puritans were for a purpose honest men; I would that we had cause so to repute of th●…se Romanists.  
9 Now whereas you call the faith which we profess, our Parliamentary Religion, you are for that term beholding to divers of your good masters. For yo●… chief schoolmaster Bristol long since bestowed that phrase on us, intituling one of his Chapters, 
h Brist. Motiv. 42.  The Parliament Church, and Parsons who could ever readily enlarge an untruth; 
i Wardword ca 4.  saith that Peter Martyr, and Master Bucer at their coming into England, in King Edwards days, were conditioned with to teach that Religion, which should be established by the Parliament approaching. It is well confessed by him, that our Realm in that kings entrance, was not so weak in the knowledge of Divinity, that they needed to be guided, by any from beyond the seas; but they themselves could search the 
k joh. 5. 3. 9  Scriptures, to sift out what was the truth. It was not so happy with that Conventicle at Trent, whereas it seemeth all the learned men were so simple, that they did nothing but almost verbis concep●…is from Rome, which gave occasion to that merriment, that the holy Ghost who should have been Precedent of the Council, was brought from Rome in a box. But the Religion which was then and is now established in England, is drawn out of the fountains of the word of God, & from the purest orders of the Primitive church, which for the ordinary exercise thereof, when it had been collected into the book of common Prayer, by the pains and labour of many learned men, and of mature judgement, it was afterward confirmed by the upper and lower house: yet not so, but that the most material points, were disputed and debated in the Convocation house, by men of both parties, and might farther have been discussed, so long as any Popish Divine had aught reasonably to say. 
l Holinshed An. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  But there in the beginning of Q. Elizabeth's reign, the Antichristian Bishops to their everlasting infamy, & to the perpetual prejudice of their cause, refused the disputation or conference, and crying creak, for sook their cause in the plain field, knowing right well that when Popery must be brought to the touchstone of God's word, it will prove base and counterfeit. And then it being intended, to add to Ecclesiastical decision, the corroboration of secular government, according to the ancient custom of this kingdom, (as appeareth by 
m An 20. & 25 & 38. R●…gis. Edvard. 3  Record from the time of K. Edward the 3.) the Parliament which is the most honourable Court of Christendom, did ratify the same, That so all of all orders and degrees, might be bound to serve the Lord of heaven, not after their own fancies, but as himself had prescribed. And that this heretofore hath been the custom of good Princes, to call their Nobles and their people to join with them for the establishing of God's service, every man may know, who will but look into the stories of the Bible. For there it will appear, that 
n josuah. 〈◊〉. 2.  jojuah being old, & minding as far as in him lay, to perpetuate the sincere service of the Lord, to all succeeding generations, did assemble all Israel, their Elders, their Heads, their judges, their Officers, to give consent thereto. So did 
o 〈◊〉 Chron. 28. 1.  David, not only minding to commend to all his subjects, the succeeding of Solomon in the crown after him, but above all things pure Religion. And was not this the course which Asa did take, for the reforming 
p 2. Chron. 15 9  of those errors, wherewith God's service was entangled, when assembling all judah and Benjamin to jerusalem, he did cause them by an oath of association, and as in way of a strong covenant, to bind themselves to God, yea and that under the pain of death, to fly Idolatry, and to embrace true piety and devotion. The like might be said of other Princes who were god lie. And these meetings no doubt being such assemblies as our Parliament is, or rather being some more general matter, he who should have termed their conclusions, a Parliamentary Religion, might have been reputed no better than a scoffing enemy. And so may you Doctor Hill be accounted, and Bristol in like sort: but Persons over and above that, may have the name of a slanderer, who can gloze and invent any thing which may serve for his purpose, as that is that P. Martyr, and M. Bucer were indented with all to teach as the Parliament should decree, implying that whatsoever it had been, they must have condescended unto it. This lying jesuite can show no letter, no Act of Record, no testimony of semblance of truth, to aver this his calumniation. But the matter indeed was, that the reformers of Religion here, intending to levelly all by the line of God's word, knew that those two worthy men were so affected in all their teachings; and therefore, as also for their admirable learning & judgement, they made choice of them before all the great Clerks which were in Europe. And that those who called them hither, were not deceived in them, the excellent monuments which they have lest in writing behind them, do testify to the world.  T. HILL. 
THIS unity of Catholics and discord of Protestants most manifestly showeth, that as the Apostles were they for whom our Saviour prayed to his father, & was heard of him. Holy father keep them in thy name, whom thou hast given me, that they may be one as we also be one, john seventeen: so they of the Catholic Roman Religion be they, for whom in the words following he prayed, & was heard, Not for them do I ask only, but also for them which shall believe, by their preaching in me, that all may be one, as thou father in me, and I in thee, that also they in us may be one, and hereof it necessarily followeth, that they be of the true Church, for that none but they observe and keep the Unity, which he obtained ●…or them of his heavenly Father.  G. ABBOT. 
10 THese texts did your master 
q Motiv. 27.  Bristol cite, & this argument in express words did he frame to your hands, gentle M. Doctor, & you might have done well, to have added some our place more of your own reading. But to answer you both together, this maketh nothing against us; for we join in consent for all material points of the substance of salvation, not only with ourselves, but with all the faithful and rightly believing, which have been in the world, with the patriarchs, the Prophets, the Apostles, the Fathers of the Primitive Church, and the Martyrs; neither can you, or the greatest Goliath of your side, ever prove the contrary. Touch any article of our doctrine, or any conclusion which we maintain, and we will make it good against you. Staphilus 
r Apolog. 〈◊〉. Staphil.  himself could cite it as the saying of Smideline, that among the Lutherans and Zwinglians, there is no variance of any weight or force, touching any articles of our saith, of Christian Religion. This tale therefore of discord, do you tell to your blear-eyed followers, who cannot discern colours: All right believers are satisfied for this matter. But on the other side, the agreement which is among you, is but a conspiracy against Christ's honour, even such a combination as was between 
s Mat. 16. 57 Luk. 23. 12.  Herode and Pilate, & Annas and Caiphas, the Scribes, Pharisees, Priests & people, to bring our blessed Saviour to the cross. Your consent is not in God, nor in his son jesus, but to rob them both of their glory, & to bestow it on your I doll at Rome. You agree to keep your Congregations in ignorance, to proclaim your kitchin-warming Purgatory, to set your Masses & Pardons at sale, to pick men's 
s Sparing discovery of jesuits.  purses by your jesuitical exercise, to lead them as bond slaves to hell, & this is it wherein you consent. So that as one did once read Vanity for Unity, in the Psalm, Behold how good & joyful a thing it is, brethren 
Ps. 133. 1.  to dwell together in Vanity, so your unity is vanity, & your consent is cousenning, to be guile God & all good Christians, so far forth as you may. The title of this your present Chapter, might better have been Vanity & Cousenning, than Unity & Consent; for you conspire to do evil, even to betray the souls of men, redeemed with the blood of the everlasting covenant. The text of jeremy would well fit this your combination. 
u jer. 11. 9  A conspiracy is found among the men of judah, & among the inhabitants of jerusalem, They are turned back to the iniquity of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words, and they went after other Gods to serve them: thus the house of Israel & the house of judah have broken my covenant, which I made with their fathers.  T. HILL. 
AND surely it cannot proceed but from the Holy Ghost, that all Sacredwriters of the Catholic Roman Church, although being 
Aug. lib 18. de civitat. dei Cap 41.  men of divers Nations, Times and Languages, yet have so wonderfully consented, & agreed among themselves, as we see they have done.  G. ABBOT. 
11 YOU would make your silly disciples believe that this proposition of yours so frandulently propounded, is confirmed by St. Austen, whose words in the place quoted in your margin, are as much to your purpose, as if a man being at Barwike, should take St. Michael's mount in his way, to go see Paul's church at London. If you had but looked the title of that Chapter in Austen, it would have told you that the author doth there speak, of the agreement of the Canonical Scriptures among themselves. And if you had read the Chapter, you might have found the drift to be, that whereas all the old Philosophers in their opinions and writings dissented each from other, the penmen of the Scriptures, being the Secretaries of the Holy Ghost did not vary at all. His words are these, 
u Lib. 18. cap 41 de ●…v. Dei.  To conclude, our Authors in whom not without a cause, the Canon of the Holy Scriptures is set & bounded, God forbidden that they should dissint among themselves in any respect. Now will you be so blasphemous, as to join your broken and barbarous writers, your Schoolmen, Dunces, Friars, with these Oracles of God? for if you do not mean by your sacred writers of the Catholic Roman Church, your Divines and teachers of the Pope's rotten Religion, you speak not to your own purpose, you abuse your Reader with equivocation, and your words as most Idle do prove nothing at all. But do your writers indeed of such divers Nations, Times and Languages, so wonderfully consent, as you speak of? Belike you have read but a few of them, or else you would see, that many of their tales do hang together, as their 
x Matth. 26. 60.  words did, who came to witness against Christ. I suppose you have heard of a certain book, called the Sentences of Peter Lombard. Now I pray you good Sir, is there no where in the margin there, Hic magister non tenetur? Look in the end of him as he was 
y Ex officina lacob, Du-pu●…s.  printed at Paris in the year 1573. & there you may find, that the faculty of Divines at Paris, have condemned for errors six and twenty several doctrines, avouched in the works of that master of the Sentences, in the first book four, in the second four, in the third three, in the fourth fifteen. Of these one was, that brute beasts do not receive the very body of Christ, although it seemeth that they do, when they devour the Host after consecration. And is it not to be supposed that the Scholars of this great Clerk, did follow their Rabbi in maintaining the same assertions? And if you will look there farther, you shall see that those Sorbonists were many times troubled, with refuting and censuring divers doctrines, which were set abroach two or three hundred years since, and that divers times in the depth of Popery. That little Treatise alone will satisfy any man that readeth it, that in this your assertion of wonderful consent, you are wonderfully out. Should not a man think that one of your learning, had heard of Thomas Vias Caietanus once Cardinal of Rome, how deep a scholar he was, and how many books he wrote? And did all your Popish learned men, join in unity of doctrine and opinion with him? How say you to Ambrose Catharinus no baby among you, who wrote purposedly against him? I had leifer that Sixtus 
z Biblioth. Sanct. lib. 4.  Senensis should tell you the tale, because you perhaps will better believe him. Having then reckoned up the works of Cardinal Caietane, he thus subjoineth: Ambrose Catharinus Archbishop of Co●…psa, of the order of the Preaching Friars, did write as well against the foresaid Commentaries of the Scriptures, as against the other lesser works of this man, six very sharp books of Annotations or Invectives, concerning which I leave to every man his own free judgement. And what main matters & of great importance in Divinity these were, he who listeth to peruse the 
a Bibl. lib. 6.  sixth book of the same Author, shall see in particular. I mentioned before, that it is not agreed upon between your schoolmen, whither beasts eating the consecrated host, do receive the body of Christ or no. 
b Li 4. Dist. 13.  Peter Lombarde saith No. Albeit if he should be asked, what then the mouse doth eat, he must answer, God knoweth. But 
c Part. 〈◊〉. quaest. 80. art 3.  Aquinas is resolute, that solong as the sensible elements do remain, solong in the Eucharist it ceaseth not to be the body of Christ, although a mouse or a dog do devour it, or it be cast into the mire. And 
d Part. 3. quaest. ●…5.  Alexander de Hales is of the same mind. The master of the Sentences following 
e Aug. Epist 28 lib. 4. Dist. 1.  Saint Augustine, who was but a hard father to Infants, did teach that if a child died without Baptism, it went to hell. The Divines of Paris in the Margente, give him a plain check for the same, and our later Papists, will not have the babe go to hell, but to the limbus infantum, where their pain is paena damni, and not paena s●…sus, a want of the joys of heaven, but the feeling of no torment. 
f Lib. 4. Dist. 11.  Peter Lombarde sayeth, that the Eucharist is to be received of all in both kinds, but the 
g Session 13  Council of Constance sayeth that the people shall have but only the bread: And yet Gerardu●… Lo●…chius a great Papist, protesteth that they 
h De missa publica pro roganda.  are false●… Catholics, hinderers of the reformation of the Church, and blasphemers, who deny the people the cup in the Eucharist. You have heard of the difference of your Thomists and Scotistes, concerning the merit of Congruum and Condignum, the difficulty arising out of that place of Saint Paul, I 
i Rom 8 〈◊〉  count that the afflictions of this present time, are not worthy of the glory which shall be revealed unto us. Can you until this day bring your Dominicane and Franciscane Friars agreed, whither the Virgin 
k Iud Vives in Annot. in August de 〈◊〉 Dei li. 20. 26.  mary were conceived in Original sin, or no? The Dominicanes moved by the authority of Aquinas, repute her spotted, the Franciscanes fight under the banner of of Scotus, maintain her to be free from all, which assertion of theirs when the Council of 
l Se●…. 3●….  Basils had ratified, the Dominicanes except against that, as against a Council not lawfully called, & the distension continued still so great there about, that Pope Sixtus was feign to interpose his authority in it, by a solemn Decree, commanding that it should not be disputed of afterward; but let the question yet be moved by any in their presence, and they will be as hot in it, as ever they were. Can there be a mainer article of all your Romish faith, them the acceptation of the Conc●…ble or Conventicle at Trent? And yet the Popish Divines of 
m See the answ to the 〈◊〉. Reason.  France do not admit it to this day. Did Pighins and Ferus accord with their fellow Romanists, in so high a question as justification by faith alone? If you know any thing of them, you cannot be ignorant that in that point they are Protestants. Doth 
n De liber. 〈◊〉 bi●…r.  Contarenus the Cardinal agree with all his fellows, touching the doctrine of free will. To conclude this Period, your two great Champions for the Pope, Bishop Fisher and Sir Thomas More, could never accord upon that question, whether there were water in Purgatory or no, both perverting the text, but the one alleging that of the Psalm, 
o ●…al. 〈◊〉. 11.  UUee have gone through fire and water, and thou hast brought us out into a cooling place, and therefore there must be water there; & the other citing that of 〈◊〉 Zachary, I have lose thy prisoners out of the pit wherein was no water, which places to die for it, they would not have understood 
●…chr 9 ●…1. Suppli●… of So●….  of any thing but Purgatory, and that literally too. So there was water in it, and there was no water.  T. HILL. 
AND lastly it is wonderful to behold, how all decrees of lawful Counsels, and of Popes, do agree in all points of doctrine one with another, although they were made by divers men, in divers places, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…es, upon divers occasions, and against Heresies, not 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but oftentimes contrary one to another. This no double 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of God.  G. ABBOT. 
YOu talk here of wonderful, and me thinketh that it is wonderful, that your Komish Rabbins will let such fellows as you are, writ, and publish books of matters in controversy. And it is almost as wonderful, that any English Papist will lay his soul, upon the credit of such fellows as you are. And it is a piece of a marvel, whither you taking on you to be a Doctor without Divinity, have read nothing about this business, or understood nothing when you read it, or forgot it since, or what you have done with it. Of Counsels we shall hear by themselves: but the agreement of your Popes may make a harmony fit for hell, and the Devil may dance by it. What meaneth that of 
q Hist. lib. 〈◊〉.  Guicciardine, who lived not far from Rome, The Popes by law do decree, that 〈◊〉 shall be lawful for them to recall all promises and covenants, although they were most firmly made by their Predecessors. And may it be thought, that they have any such Decree? Let that of Innocentius the 3. to the Archbishop of Canterbury, determine this Controversy, 
r Decretal. l. 1. Tit. 6. c. 20.  Although the Canon of the Council of Laterane set forth by Alexander our predecessor, do so persecute those who are not lawfully horn, that it doth signify that the election of such is a 〈◊〉, yet notwithstanding there was not by him taken from us the power of dispensing, since that was not the intention of him forbidding it, who could not in this respect breed any prejudice to his successors, who should enjoy the like, yea the same power after him, since an equal hath no authority over his equal. What is there in the world, which when one Pope yea by a Council hath done, may not be reversed by his successor, according to this rule and the reason thereof? Unto this agreeth that of 
s In vita St●…han. 6.  Platina, who when he had told that Stephen the 6. had taken the body, of formosus his Predecessor, out of his tomb, and spoiling it of all his Pontifical attire, did cut of two fingers of his right hand, and threw them into Tiber, inferreth this afterward, This was a great stir, and a matter of naughty example, since almost ever afterward this custom hath been observed, that the following Popes do either infringe, or altogether abrogate the acts of the former. Yet not long after he hath 
s In Serg. 3.  again, that Sergius the 3. not content with the usage of Stephen to Formosus, fell upon his body a second time, threw it out of his grave, and as some thing unworthy of burial did cast it into Tiber. The examples of this sort are so many, how one of them have raged and reveled against another, as if their predecessors had been miscreants or rather hellhounds, as that they might fill up a pretty story. Which when it cannot be denied, your answer must be that these are facts, and not matters of doctrine. Where I might call to your mind, the reversing of the Bible by Clement the 8. which is a matter containing in it the substance and foundation of all doctrine, but of that before. Now go we a little higher.  
13 
t Virg. lib 2. Acneid.  Fands aliquid non fortè 〈◊〉 pervenit ad aures, that Gregory the first condemned the title of Universal Bishop in any man, and called it aprophans' 〈◊〉 appellation? These are also his words, I 
u Li. 6 Epist ●…4.  do boldly say that whosoever calleth himself the Universal Priest, or desireth 
〈◊〉 Lib. 3. Epist. 80.  to be so called, in his haughtiness doth forerun Antichrist, because by being proud he preferreth himself before others. And yet every man knoweth that the Popes since the days of 
x Anastas. in vita Bonifac. 3.  Boniface the 3. have usurped that title, and will by no means part with it. As now a days it hath his consequence and dependence, what greater point of doctrine is there in the whole Christian religion? You might have heard that there was a long continued controversy, between the Curates, or beneficed men of parishes on the one side, and the Friars on the other, whether it were lawful or expedient for the Church of God, that the Friars should take confessions, in all places where they came, and preach at their pleasure, without licence of the Incumbents, or no. 
y 10. Fox in Eccl. Histor 〈◊〉. Edw. 3.  There were many learned men who stood stiffly against the Friars, as Gulielmus de sancto Amore, and Henricus de Gandavo, and many other●… yea Armachanus before the Pope and his Cardinals, laid hardly against them. Here one Pope would define it to be good for the Church, that the Friars should be thus suffered; & another Pope would decree against them. Their favourers were Honorius 3. Gregory 9 Alexander 4. Clemens 4. Boniface 8. Clemens 5. But those who held for the Curates were, Innocentius the 3. Innocentius the 4. Martin the 4. Benedictus the 11. and many Bulls walked about the world, for and against the Friars. There was a great question, whether after the marriage of a couple, the one of them falling into heresy, it might be lawful for the other, to relinquish his or her yoke-fellow, and to mary●… another. 
z In Cap. Quanto, extra, de Divortijs. & cap. 1. Distinct. 3●….  Innocentius the 3. and Celestinus the 3. gave contrary judicial sentences in this cause, the one permitting to the innocent party to marry again, the other quite forbidding it. It is not to be imagined but that in the dark time of Popery, many Kings and Nobles and inferior persons in France, had Indulgences from divers Popes, for their own souls, & for the souls of their friends & parents; whereby if we will allow the Roman doctrine to be good, it must needs be, that according to the time granted in the Pardom, many a soar soul which had fried in Purgatory flames, was set free by such favour, as the holy father who had the custody & dispensation of the treasure of the Church, had afforded them, and then immediately they went to heaven. But when Philip the fair was King of France, he fell out with the Pope, & having his Clergy & whole Realm united to him, he disgraced that Roman Bishop, vilefied him, & exceedingly both abridged, abrogated his power in France: Pope Boniface the 8. who would carry no coals at any such mean man's hands, as a King of France was, consistorily revoketh all the 
a Du Haillan. Lib. 13.  grants, immunities, Privileges, Indulgences, graces, & whatsoever any of his Predecessors had given to France or any french. On danger of your life you must not make doubt, but this Boniface did well, and his sentence must stand. What he bindeth in earth, is bound in heaven, and what he looseth is lose. Hence then ariseth a question, insinuated by 
b Apolog. pro Herodot. cap. 40.  Henry Stephanus, which I fear that all the Seminary of Douai will hardly be able to answer. Whether the Pope's sentence mustnot stand good: or else whether the souls which had escaped, and were flown out unto heaven, were immediately upon the pronouncing of that horrible sentence, to retire to Purgatory, from whence they had come out, by a grace which was now frustrated. How poorly & how pitifully would these souls look, when they should so on the sudden be doffed of their felicity, which they thought they had as sure as heaven & Angels could make it? This would make shrewd speaking, in some other than being in heaven, lest also the souls of some other countries should meet with such a bargain. Thus you see, the Bishops of Rome do not ever say the same things, nor define after the same sort. And although all these by me named, be not the grand points of their doctrine, yet their will should not have been wanting even there also, if it had been for their advantage. They who would go so far, would have strained a string farther, if they had seen reason for it, But in sooth why should they vary from their mainest grounds? Popery was not so hastily built, that the high Priests of it, should in a wantonness tumble any of it down. And it is so concatenated, that destroy one part of it, & you ruinated a great deal. Therefore their wisest way was to play N●… 〈◊〉 tangere. And to whose use should they thwart their principal foundations? To the benefit of Christ? No, their plotting was against him. To the profit of Antichrist, and Satan his master? Why, all the world could not devise it in better terms than it was. To add unto it, they lest feared: for that was to strengthen it. But to reverse or deface any of it, was to open a gap. And why should they once dispute of it, who had by it what they would? for they had almost eaten up all Christendom. Their wilest way therefore was to keep their own counsel, and know when they were well. If they themselves should in the most capital matters have fallen out, other honester persons might have come by their goods: And they were not so silte, but to understand that by knocking together, some fire might fly out, which easily might set their Babylon on a flame. So it was their good nature, or rather it was the finger of god, which let so much discord be among them, as that good Christian might see them to be nought: but withal it was their wi●…te, or rather the cunning of Satan, that they should look to the main chance so long as they could, lest the kingdom of that wicked one being 
c Mark. 3 24  divided against itself, should quickly be desolated. And we cannot blame the Devil, after so long experience, and trial what is good for himself, if he endovour with all vigilancy to keep that in quiet, whereof he had gotten possession: And for his servaunts, they being inspired by him were so wise in their generation, as by all means to hold that which they had once gained.  
14 YOU see that Unity is it, which in this third Reason is urged: but the true substance of the matter is scant once thought upon. For what Christian can say, that For a many of men to agree together, to dishonour God, is a laudable consent? That than which chiefly is to be looked unto, is that the agreement be in truth: Otherwise it is no better than a conjuration or conspiracy. How did the people hold together when jeremy reporteth of them, that 
d jer. 7. 18.  the children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, & the women kneade the dough, to make cakes to the Queen of heaven? What a confederacy is that against God's Church, when the faithful are forced to complain, 
e Psal. 83. 3.  They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, & have consulted against thy secret ones? And again, They have consulted together in heart, and have made a league against thee, The tabernacles of Edom and the Ishmaelites, M●…ab and the Agarims, Geball and Ammon and Amalek, the Philestines, with the inhabitants of Tyrus. Nay doth not David describe such consent to be against Christ himself, 
f Psal. 2. 2.  The Kings of the earth hand themselves, and the Princes are assembled together against the Lord, and against his Christ. And this was fulfilled not only at his death, but at his birth also, when 
g Math. 2. 3.  Herode and Jerusalem were troubled about him, and a Council was gathered of Priests and Scribes, combining not to honour him, but to destroy him. Of this fort was the confluence of the 
h Dan. 3. 2.  Nobles, the Princes, the Dukes, the judges, the receivers, the councillors, the Officers, and all the Governors of the Provinces, when they came up to the dedication of the Image, which Nabuchedonosor the King had set up. The multitude were there of one mind: but it was to commit Idolatry: and only the three children of the jewish nation, condescended not to their wickedness. I might add more examples, as that of the 
i joseph de bell. judaic. lib. 6. 1.  seditious at the last siege of Jerusalem, who albeit they sometimes turned their sword each against other, yet in this they agreed, that there was not a good or honest body in the city, but they joined to vex or murder him. And as these are sufficient witnesses, that in some evil actions men do concur together, and descent not each from other, so there have been sequences, and descents of many ages, wherein whole nations and countries, have with conjoined minds, perpetuated a service to their Gods, the form whereof was never so much as questioned among them. What correspondency of each to other was there among the Ethnics, when all nations in the most known and best habitable world (the jews only excepted) did pray and sacrifice to jupiter and I●…o, to Mars and Apollo, or some other like these? and when so wise a man as 
k joseph. lib. 2. contr. Apion.  Socrates was, did but seem to extenuate the estimation of those Gods, it cost him his life. It is now a 
l Cael. Aug. Cur. Sarac. Hist lib. 1.  thousand years, since the Arabian Saracens, and those who have issued from them, have accepted of Mahomet for the singular Prophet and servaunt of the LORD, and have never dared to make question, much less division, about their ceremonies and orders, because Mahomet under pain of death hath inhibited, that his 
m Vives de verit fidci lib. 1.  Religion should be so much as disputed upon. And (the Persians excepted who are under another Prince) this standeth good among so many millions, as be in Africa, or elsewhere under the Turk; neither is there, or hath been among them of the same profession, the least disagreement. Whence it followeth that if we should allow the Church of Rome, so much as she demandeth, that is to say, that all things were carried in the same stream among them, yet it concludeth no more, then for the Ethnics and Heathens, or for the Mahometans and Saracens, unless they can demonstrate, that their conjoining hath been in verity, and in the inviolable unity of God's holy spirit, which if they could aver out of the Scripture which is the touchstone of truth, they needed not to run to uncertain arguments, and weak foundations of traditions, customs, and otherlike trash as they continually doc. Their agreement hath been to set up that Idol of Rome, to rob God of his honour, to infect and poison the fountains of living waters, to destroy the souls of the people, and for that reason they are rightly fitted with that of 
n Ezech. 22. 25.  Ezechiel, A conspiracy of her Prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring L●… ravening the pray, they have devoured souls, they have taken the riches and precious things. A good description of the combination, and concurrence of the Pastors and shepherds of Rome.  
15 On the other side whereas it is objected, that since the plentiful breaking out of the Gospel, and the irradiation of so many parts of Europe, with the glorious beams thereof, there have risen up many contradicting the verity of the same, & there have been divers distractions by the whisperings of heretics; the intelligent Christian Reader may easily perceive, that this maketh not against us, but illustrateth the truth of that which we de fend: First it hath ever so been with the Church, when God hath given somewhat more free passage of the Gospel then ordinary: the 
o Mat. 13. 25  good seed is no sooner sown, but presently the evil man taketh opportunity to sow tars among it, which Parable our Saviour in his divine wisdom did speak to this purpose. Where it is not amiss to consider, that the old veteratorious enemy Satan, who hath mill nocendi arts, a thousand devises to do hurt, striveth to bring about his practices by manifold tricks & stratagems. Here his first & chiefest purpose, as best making way to his dark kingdom of hell, is to keep all in ignorance. If that cannot be, but that he is over-mastred, them his next study is, by the sword of violent persecution, to destroy the professors of God's truth. If that will not succeed, than he raiseth up heresies & distractions, among them who pretend the same verity: Even upon the coming of Christ into the world, Satan had almost all things at his own will. The Gentiles were not yet come to the light: the jews were well-near past it: but neither among the one nor the other, was much faith to be found. How did this Beelzebub struggle to keep the world in these terms, when he would have had 
p Mat. 2. 13.  Christ to be murdered in his cradle, & afterward left him not till he brought him to his cross? Well, this would do no good, but for one stem cut down, their grew up many young plants, all taking their vital nourishment from the first root. The 
q Rom. 10. 1●…  sound of the Apostles doctrine, went out through all the earth, and their words into the ends of the world. Here then Satan being put to his shifts, turned over a new leaf. If he could not stop the stream, he thought he would poison it, and therefore sendeth in the Nicolaitanes, Ebion and Cerinthus with their complices immediately, who should mix the good grain with cockle and darnel. This was his manner of assaulting at the first. Yet was he not so simple, but to his best power, he held his first ground: Better no Christians at all, than some Christians true and some counterfeit. A second time therefore he falleth on the well head, with earnest desire either to dry it or to dam it up. By Decius and Ualerian and the rest of the bloody Emperors, he exciteth ten most terrible persecutions, by the which until well near 300. years after Christ, he thought to have r●…zed out from under the heaven, the name of the embracers of the Gospel. And in the intervalla or interstitia of these persecutions, he did not forget his feats of Heresy, as may be seen by the Novatians. But after the time by his own counsel appointed, God was pleased to stay the fury & rage of tyrants, sending that his blessed servant Constantine, and the other Emperors, who openly professed for the Christian faith. And now the floud-gats of the Gospel being so wide set open through a great part of the world, the Devil had his hands & his head too full to do something which might serve for his purpose. Then grew immediately such a rabble of Heresies, as is almost incredibles which as it appeareth by that, which formerly hath been cited out of Epiphani●… and Austen, so it is more confirmed by the words of Hierome saying thus, 
q Lib. 2. contr●…●…ovinianum.  It is almost four hundred years agone, that the preaching of Christ doth shine in the world, since which time ●…erable Heresies have re●…e his coat. And yet as I noted before, well near three hundred years were passed over, in that continued time of persecution. Now amidst these Heresies, what wars and dissensions were among the Christians, it is not easy to report. If the inferior 
s So●…om. 6. 25.  Clergy, among themselves sell to disagree about any thing, it grew to that stomach, that it ended in some Heresy. And the Bishops when some 
s Socrat. 2. 19  schism was once amongst them, they kept their bucharist apart, & would not come to the communion e●…he with other. Will you in this case hear the testimony of a heathen man, who no doubt recounteth the story with great gladness, as pleasing him well, & in the enduseth almost the same words as the Romanistes do of some other, W●… 
t Am. Marcill●…. l. 22. 3.  the Christians did disagree among themselves, 〈◊〉 su●…y intending to deal with them, did call the Prelates and the people int●… his Palace, where he permitted to every one the use of his Religion, s●… meaning to increase between them so great discords, a●… that they might not be alaid●…; knowing that beasts are not more deadly minded towards beasts, than Christians are to Christians. You may learn here, from what schoolmaster, the 
u Commentar. Relig & Reip. in Gall. Lib 3.  Cardinal of Lorraine did take his lesson, when at the conference of Poissy, to thwart Mr Beza and Peter Martyr, and other of that company, he sent for some Lutherans out of Germany, who might in the matter of Sacrament, have turned their disputations against those of the Religion, when as both of them should rather have joined against the common enemy. And in the ancient times before spoken of, if we will think of private quarrels, what 
u Higher Apolog contr. Ruffin. Ruffin in Invectiv.  rancour and bitterness was there between Hierome & Ruffi●…s as also what stomakefulnesse between 
x Sozom. lib. 8. 15.  chrysostom & Epiphani●…, when they parted and never saw each other again. Yet to say that among any, or all of these Christians, there was no verity or solidity of faith or Religion, had been an absurd conclusion, and such a one as our Romanists themselves would quickly deny. There were many who walked in by-paths, and yet there were who kept the right way also. GOD had his Saints, and Satan his schismatics.  
16 The reason why such heresies did spring up in the church, was partly to be derived from God's determinate counsel, and partly from the malice of our old deadly enemy. They had both their purposes in it, but the one holy and good, & the other like himself full of improbity and impiety. 
y 1 Cor 11. 19  There must be Heresies among you saith Saint Paul, that they which are approved among you might be known. And 
z Contr. hoeres. c. 15.  Vincentius Lirinensis telleth us, that therefore there be heresies, that the Lord our God may try us, whether we love him with all our heart, and all our soul or no. Whether by the authority or wit of any man, we will be drawn from the integrity and simplicity of faith, which is proposed unto us in CHRIST jesus. And to this purpose speaketh Saint Augustine: 
a Epistol 50.  Heresies and scandals are foretold shall be, that among our enemies we may be instructed, and so both our faith and our love may be the better proved. And elsewhere he teacheth that a good use may be made of Heretics. 
b De vera Religion. cap. 8.  Many, that they may see the day of God, 
c Deivel diei.  and reioyc●…, are by heretics raised out of their sleeps, W●… therefore may use even Heretics, not that we should approve their errors, but that maintaining the Catholic discipline against their treacheries, we may be the more watchful and w●…, although we cannot reduce them unto salvation. For these and the like instructions of his people, God saffereth Heresies, rents and schisms to be: but Satan's project is, by infection to destroy the souls of men, and therefore he is busy in stirring up of them; which was well know to Cyprian when he said, 
d De simplicit. praelator.  The Devil did invent Heresies and schisms, whereby he might subver●… the faith, might corrupt veriti●…, might tear in pieces unity. This is the drift of our ancient adversary being put to his shifts. Saint Austen speaketh yet plainer, 
e De utilitate jejunij.  The Devil doth understand that our life is charity, and our death is dissension, he sent strifes therefore among Christians, because he could not frame unto the Christians divers Gods, he multiplied sects, he sowed errors, he erected Heresies, but whatsoever he did, he made of the lords chaff. And this did he, immediately after that Constantine's reigning had brought peace to the Churches ', that good Emperor grieving much, to see Arri●… and other, so soon by the ears with the Orthodox. But Satan was unwilling to lose any time, and therefore even at the first bestirred him. Now in the dark time of Popery God having been pleased to determine before, that an 
f 2. Thes. 2. 3  Apostasy there should be, and the woman should be withdrawn into the 
g Apoc. 12. 6  wilderness, and Antichristes kingdom should be erected, flourish and domineer, what reason had Satan, to set men to contend about the foundations of his building? He rather cried, Hab●… quod ●…olo. I have what I desire. As it is the the efes' safety, that all in the house should sleep, when he cometh to rifle and rob, so it was Satan's best contentment, that the world should be at rest. By his will how many ages & secula should have passed over, ere the old heathens should have awaked out of sleepe●… And how many did there pass over the 
h Petr. Martyr. Decad. 1. 〈◊〉.  americans, & he never made any question, or cast in any bone among them, but let them go on in worshipping their Zemes, those horrible spirits of darkness? I would but know of any man, what Satan should have gained, to set them at variance about their Religion? If ignorance would kill souls, the days abounded in ignorance; if superstition would destroy, they had it in great plenty; if idolatry would do him any pleasure, they wanted none of that; if security would further him, they had it and made much of it. What could he wish more, when the greatest sort of worldlings danced after his pipe, and were as glad to come in, as he to open his doors? He had doted as I think, if he could not have kept his own counsel. But in that fault you shall not take him. The care therefore of him and his ministers was, to keep all upright, or at least to preserve the groundwork of his building, and if any of his children at their play did fall out, he closed it up again aswell as he could, & had his officers for that purpose. If any other did but bay, or open, against this his settled commonwealth, he was not amicus Curiae, a friend to the Court: either bring him to conformity or Crucifige. So you may behold the reason, why in the deep time of ignorance, there was such a confederacy or conspiracy rather, to have all under silence. It was like the 
l justin. l. 5.  Sacra El●…sina, where nothing might be revealed, nothing might be disturbed.  
17 But when God was once purposed to open the gate of his mercy, and the door of his truth, the case was altered with the world's old master. As Basile therefore saith of virtue and vice, so Satan did with verity and error. 
k De vera virginitate.  Where a door is of virtue saith he, there on either side is set a door of vice, the entrances of which are very like to the other of virtue. By which likeness it cometh to pass, that many a one coming to enter at the right passage, mistaketh the door, & by a wrong opinion getteth him into the house of vice. Thus did the Devil deal by truth. Only there is this difference, that for one door of verity, he made very many of error and heresy, and by the mist which he ●…steth before men's eyes, they run in at the wrong gate in steed of the right. But this is an evident Demonstration, that the right door is now open, that he laboureth so to d●…sle it, more than formerly he hath done. For why else would he trouble himself, by raising so many opinions? And this is an excellent argument, which was made sometimes by chrysostom, & serveth fit for our purpose, in these days. 
l Hom. 33. in Acta.  This is an argument that it is a notable doctrine, if many dee cownterseit it, and imitate it a for they would not counterfeit it, unless it were good. And that I will now make manifest unto you. The ointments which are fragrant, have many who will adulterate them: but no man by counterfeiting, will ●…bour to express him who doth wickedly, but that person who is eminent for his singular life. And this did that holy father utter, even in the very matter which I have now in hand, making answer touching the diversity of opinions, and the manifold heresies, which in his time were among the Christians. He showeth it to be an argument of excellency, and not of badness, that many would shroud their conceits, under the name of true religion. I would that our English Papists would weigh this answer of Saint Chrysostom's well, and then they shall find, that if there have been many upstartes since the time of Luther & Calvine, who under colour of their patronage would broach somewhat, when in very deed they descent from them, & are condemned by them; this doth magnify the verity of those holy men's doctrine, and showeth the devils policy, to set many to resemble them, that so he may disgrace the truth, by a multitude of various & independent lies. What money coiner was ever so foolish, as to sergeant a sergeant coin, or that which of itself is base? but the purest gold, and most fine money is that, which lewd persons offer and attempt to resemble. Thus the weakest Reader may behold the vanity of the Doctors third Reason, and see that their Unity is against God, & ours is in God and for Christ: and if there should be difference in actions amongst us, it is no other thing than was between 
m Act. 15. 39  Paul and Barnabas: and if in opinions of great causes, (the foundation being surely held) it is no more than was between 
n Gal. 2. 11.  Peter and Paul, and Saint 
o August. Epist. 19  Hierome and Saint Augustine debating that fact of theirs, and yet the one couple of those were Apostles, and the other were great lamps in the Church, even as both the Lutherans and Calvinists as you call them, are in one article dissenting, but both holding Christ crucified, and the manner of justification aright, and all other circumstances belonging thereunto.  
18 I had thought here to have ended this Chapter: but I fear lest our Seminarians at Rome, & my adversaaty himself should think that in so doing, I did not them their right. It is said before, that in the Papacy there is a general uniformity in the peace of men's minds, and to be brief they have all one heart & one soul. Would a man think this, who readeth M. Parsons his Apology of the Ecclesiastical Hierarchy, and subordination in England●… For to omit all matters before intimated, of the schism here between the Archpriest & Seculars, as also of all 
p The estate of Eng●…ish fugit. u●…s.  contentions between our English fugitives in Italy. France and the low Countries during her late majesties days, what horrible tumults have there lately been, in the English College alone at Rome? 
q Apol. c. 5.  There did the students bind themselves by oath, not to live any more under the government of the jesuits. Yea so vehement was the sedition once, that like mad men they did run out toward the Pope's palace; but from his Holiness that now is, they were commanded to retire to their lodgings. They made many seditious sermons against their governors, in the College. In the year 1596 when Car. dinall Sega prefixed his letters, signifying his intent, by a Visitation to look into them, they disgracefully tore his letters. Among these gallants perhaps was our M. Hill, but then not Doctor, but known by the name of Thomas Hill Priest, although afterward he, if it were he, cried Creak for it, and together with five other Priests, was induced to write to Aqua viva the General of the jesuits, a solemn letter of thanks, because in the year 1507. he left father Parsons, to take up controversies in the College at Rome; And the same 
r May 15. 1597.  commendations of father Persons appeasing all, did Thomas Hill write to D. K●…on Vice-president of the College at Douai. But yet the jesuits are not too forward to attribute much credit unto this Thomas; for it is but a poor testimony, which the rector there giveth him; we do not heart but Hill hath behaved himself well since. But he affirmeth that before time he was vehement against the fathers, upon error and evil informed zeal as may be supposed. I make some doubt whether that Hill mentioned in the Apology be my Doctor, or no; because (as I am informed) there were two in the Seminary called by the name of Thomas Hill. One of this two desiring to be fine, before that he was handsome, would needs in imitation of the Italian Friars, teach his Auditors in his Sermons, how they should fly in a coach to heaven, whereof this coach must be made, what once the horses should be that must draw it, wherewithal they must be fed, & such other stuff, till that his hearers did laugh at his eloquence, and deride his discretion. This later do I suppose to be the Author of this volume. In all this forenamed controversy I do not much find any uniformity in the peace of men's minds, or one heart and one soul. This preaching one against another did show the contrary thereunto. But yet that other preaching long since, did show it mere, when (as the Waldenses did complain) the followers of the Pope in 
s Confes. Wald. In fascic. rer. expetenda.  their sermons did call one another schismatics, heretics, sacrilegious, false Prophets, ravening wolves, the beast and whore in the Apocalypse. This of all likelihood did show diversity and distraction in doctrine. And shall we not imagine that so it was, when thirteen 
s Benno Card. de vita Greg. 7.  Cardinals seeing the Apostasy of Hildebrand, or Pope Gregory the seventh, did departed from his Communion, that is, would not be partakers of the Eucharist, where he was to communicate. If I should urge any more examples, it should be of the jesuits, who are charged, in ordinary practice to dissent from the rest of the Popish Church in France, in more than fifty matters. Some of them may well be said to be points doctrinal, as these, 
t jesuit Cat. Lib. 2. 1.  that the Pope is not under any General or Ecumenical Council; that the Pope is Prince of all kingdoms as well in matters temporal as spiritual; that the kings of Fra●…ce may be excommunicated by the Popes: that the Pope according to the occasions of matters, may transfer not only kingdoms, but the Empire 〈◊〉: that Clergy men may not be judged by a secular judge, although they keep not civil laws: that the rebellion of a Clergy man against his Prince is not high treason, because he is not subject to the Prince: that a king may be deposed by the State for tyranny; and if he do not his duty, when there is just cause, another may be chosen by the greater part of the people; yea th●…gh they have sw●…e perpetual obedience to him: that jesuits admit of the Council of Trent. These with their circumstances are high points of doctrine, maintained and defended by the jesuits, but oppugned by the Papists of France, and other nations which are not jesuited, so that now they may in these respects, have safely more bells than one ring to their Sermons, contrary to that which Staphilus would have taught Smideline, when he said thus, 
u Apolog. Fridir. Staphyl.  S●…deline should learn of the parish Clerk, why when he ringeth to Sermon, he ringeth but one ●…ell, but to E●…song or Service he ringeth many at once, both great and ●…ll. The ringing 〈◊〉 bell to Sermon repres●…th the Unity of the Catholic faith taught at Sermons, which ought to be but on●… and uniform in all men. ●…t the ●…angling of many divers bells to co●… prayer, signifieth the diversity of men, some praying fervently, some coldly, some serving God one way, some another. The difference of the jesuits from other Papists, will safely permit them to ring to their Sermons, more 〈◊〉 than one. And so I come now to the next Chapter.   

THE FOURTH REASON. Conversion of Countries.  T. HILL. 
IT 〈◊〉 most pl●…ne and manifest, that all 〈◊〉 which ever believed in Christ, were first converted to his 〈◊〉 by such, 〈◊〉 either 〈◊〉 precisely sent, or 〈◊〉 the least wise had their authority from the 〈◊〉, which lived in the time in which they were con●…rted. 〈◊〉 thing is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 set dow●… in the History of the first conv●…rsion of every country, as no Protest●… were 〈◊〉 ●…ver so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  G. ABBOT. 
1 TO deal favourably with you, and not to answer you as in this place you deserve is there any man of tolerable learning, or any whit seen in the Ecclesiastical story, who doth not here think that you want some body, who may not only exagitate you, but exco●…te you also? when, as if you were become some Aquaviva or General of the jesuits, you so and aciously give down such general propositions, not only far from truth, but much estranged from the very show and semblance thereof. I do less pity you, because the farther I go, the more I perceive you to be a sworn servant to Antichrist, & therefore there is nothing which may advance your master's credit, but you a●… devoted to him, must say it & do it. But in my very bowels I pity, & take compassion of diverse my bewitched countrymen, silly women and young foundlings, who receiving from you such stuff; so boldly & ass verantly averred, have not the skill to discover you, nor the grace to repair unto such, as may lay open the Ambuscadoes and snares, which you have prepared for them. Where there needeth no other proof to descry this your dealing, then to observe, that in this your so potent and puissant challenge, you cite not one author, you name not one particular, you single not out the Pope, you point not out the country, you assign not the preachers by whom it is done, you mention not the time, nor yield us any reason wherefore you do say it, but only this that you do say it. Wherein you over-lash beyond the most that ever wrote on your side; for other assumed somewhat, but you throw at all; and losing have nothing to pay. The jesuits whom afterward you commend in this Chapter, do not use to extenuate their holy Father's commendation, but to set it as high as may be: and 
a Controv. cap. 2. 〈◊〉 Wats. Quodl. 8. 4.  Costerus among them being one, who had a 〈◊〉 deal more reading, and learning and judgement, them you seem to have, pretermitting (as he telleth us) the Churches of the East and of the South, saith, it is certain that Germany and France were first converted by such as Peter sent. And afterward he would bring in the kingdoms of England & Scotland as brought to the faith, by the successors 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Peter in the see of Rome; and to those he addeth Africa, meaning as 〈◊〉 should seem some pa●… thereof, lying near to Italy: for he himself allo●…h Aethiopia to Saint Matthew, and Egypt, Libya, & the Africanes there about to Simon, and Saint Mark the Evangelist. But the conversion of Spain he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 St. james: of Thracia and Scythia Europ●…●…o Saint 〈◊〉 o●… Scythia Asiatica to Philip, of Armenia and the hither part of India to Bartholomew, of Parthia, Media, Persia, 〈◊〉, the Brach●…ane & Bactrians unto Thomas, as also the farther part of India; which is yet believed in that country, as 
b Osor. digest. Eman. lib. 3. Maff Hist. judic. lib 2.  appeareth by such as have written the navigations of the Portugese's into those parts. And at these things are witnessed by some of the old writers, so 
c Eccl Hist. lib. 3. 1.  Eusebius hath this farther, that Asia fell to john the Evangelist, meaning Asia the lesser or Natolis, but that Peter as it seemeth did preach the word to the jews, who were 
d 1. Pet. 1. 1.  dispersed in Pontus, Gal●…tia, 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 and Asia.  
2 Thus in the time of the Apostles, the greatest part of the known world had heard of the faith of Christ, & in some good measure embraced it: that being verified, that 
e Rom. 10. 1●…  their sound that is the Apostles went out through all the earth, and their words into the ends of the world, and Christ's Prophecy being fulfilled, that 
f Mat. 24. 14  the Gospel of the kingdom should be preached through al●… 〈◊〉 world for a ●…nes unto all nations, and then should the end come, which was done before the destruction of Jerusalem, that 
g Verse 34.  generat●… being not yet passed, which lived in Christ's time. And this is so undoubted a truth, that Costerus saith, The 
h Controv. cap 2.  Catholic Church as first was propagated by the Apostles themselves, almost through all known countries. Now all this while there was no Pope; and if it should be objected (as no other shift there is in the world, and that is but a simple one) that Peter as Pope sent the rest of the Apostles, some to this place, some to that, I require one text o●… scripture to be showed, or one monument of antiquity to be produced, which may confirm so much. It is not unlikelye, but that the Apostles in some assembly at Jerusalem did consent, what regions each of them should betake themselves unto: but that any one did appoint to the rest their charges, we no where find. Nay plain it is that Peter himself, had his portion assigned him, to preach to the 
i Gal. 2. 7.  jews, as Paul had to preach to the Gentiles, which was the greater charge. And whither this were appropriated to him by God, as the text seemeth well to incline, or whither by the consent also of the Apostles; Paul had his Commission in the same manner; which he so little thinketh inferior to the others, that he 
k Ibidem.  nameth it before Peter's, and standeth upon 
l ver. 8. & 9  terms of equality in power, and fellowship in action. But that I may force the author of this libel to say, Pen thou writest untruth, Samaria received Christ, by the preaching of 
m Act. 8. 5. 14.  Philip, before that Peter knew of it, and the 
n 27.  Eunuch of Aethiopia on the way, was in like sort brought to religion by the same Philip, and he went home immediately, and planted the faith in his Country (as 
o Eccl Hist. Lib. 2. 1.  Eusebius showeth) which was done without Peter's privity: for a good space after that, he made doubt, whither the Gentiles might have the word opened to them, until that by a vision 
q Act. 10. 10.  from heaven that scruple was removed. And I pray you was there nothing done by Saint Paul, whose authority was immediate from 
r Galat. 〈◊〉. 1  God, & not from man, he being not set on work from other, but receiving his commission from jesus Christ himself? The history of whose labours in turning men to Christ, although Saint Luke doth particularly relate in the Acts of the Apostles, yet for brevity sake we will look to one place only, of his own testimony; and he saith that 
s Rom. 15. 19  from Jerusalem, & round about unto Illyricum, he caused the Gospel of Christ to abound. And to take away all pretence of objection he addeth, that he preached the Gospel where 
s vers. 20.  Christ was not named, lest he should have built on another man's foundation. If these things be so plain as no Christian can doubt of them, blush and blush again at such desperate audaciousness, as maketh no conscience, egregiously to feign.  T. HILL. 
TRue it is that Heretics have corrupted such as were Catholics before, but that they ever converted any Heathen Nation to Christianity, can never be showed. I know very well that john Calvine to get glory, sent certain of his Ministers into newe-founde lands: but I never could hear that any of them converted so much as one silly woman to their Gospel in those parts. The truth is, their agreement in doctrine was so great, that one destroying another's buildings, they became laughing flocks to the Heathens, and so were glad to departed with shame.  G. ABBOT. 
3 THAT Heretics have corrupted such, as were weaklings or discontented persons, is true: and may well be exemplified in your brood perverting divers credulous and indiscreet folks, from their obedience to God and their Princes: but they are not sound Catholics, or well settled and grounded in the faith, who will listen to you, or any seducer. And if there be any heathen nation which hath heard of the name Christ by you, and your polluted Christianity; it is most certain, that it hath been by Heretics, the servants and attendants of the whore of Babylon, being a hundred ways infected with heresy; and the whole body of Popery where it differeth from us, being nothing else but a mass of abominable heresy. But whereas you say that Calvine sent some of his Ministers into the newe-founde land, if you understood yourself in this, which like a Parrot you speak from other men, and know not what it meaneth, the 
t Io. Leriu●… in navigat. in Brasil. ca 1, 2, 6.  voyage into Brasile in the year one thousand five hundred fifty & five, was the original work of Villagagno a Knight of Malta, who pretending himself to be religious, & seeing the persecution, which at that time was used in France against God's children, under K. Henry the second, gave out in words that he would search out a place in the newefound Western world; whither persecuted Christians might fly out of France, Spain and other countries. And for this purpose he had aid of Cha●…llion, that worthy Admiral of France, who was afterward sl●…ine at the 
u An. 1572.  Massacre in Paris. And whereas by his letter, Uillagagno had made request to the Church of Geneva, to send with him or unto him, divers Ministers of the Gospel, they at his entreary condescended thereunto, and some went: who as especially they desired to prepare a place for their afflicted countrymen, whereof at that time many were burnt for Religion, so their next intendment was, to use their best means to convert the Barbarians unto the faith of CHRIST. And when divers of the ministery leaving their country, kindred, and that estate which they had in France, were come thither with those resolutions, they never dissented in the least point of the●… doctrine. But Uillagagno like a notable Hypocrite, together with a Popish Priest of his, one Cointas, (who had before abjured Popery there, as also the General voluntarily had done) relapsed to their vomit, evil entreated their Ministers by all means that they could devise, set the company upon a mutiny, and forced such as lost not their lives there, to return to their country, when they had scant spent one year in those parts, and that full of vexation, by reason of their conductors perfidious falsehood. This was the reason, wherefore that voyage sorted to small purpose; and not the discord of the Ministers. And this wicked practice did arise from the Cardinal of Lorraine, who either in secret before the departure of Uillagagno, or afterward by letters drew him to Apostate from his faith, ●…s Lerius who was there in presence, and reporteth the specials of all that voyage, and their General's usage there, doth amply remember. And that this was the true cause of their return, we need not appeal to any of our men, since Costerus the jesuite will tell it thus, ᵘ The Calvinistes not many years agone, 
Controver. cap 2.  did attempt to bring in their errors to the people of India and Peru, but by the ●…ide of CHRIST, and by the industry of the Catholics they were excluded. Indeed the Cardinal of Lorraine be stirred himself in that business, being so bitter an enemy to the Gospel of CHRIST, that he could not endure, that the Frenchmen should have it at home or abroad, lest belike multitudes of them should have left their country, and built Colonies elsewhere. So he cared not what loss or dishonour the kingdom of France had, so there might be no Sanctuary, or refuge for those whom he reputed heretics, dealing as honestly and faithfully therein, as Steven Gardiner while he lived, and afterwards other of the Clergy, did with Caleis in Queen Mary's time: which town they understanding to be the receptacle of many good Christians, fled out of England for their conscience; were so averse from regarding, repairing and supplying it, that the French descrying the weakness thereof, by attempting it both suddenly and subtly, & afterward pursuing their enterprise fiercely, did get it from the English. Such was the blessed mind of that Machiavellian Cardinal, whom GOD 
x Commentar. Relig. & Reip. in Gal. Lib. 13.  remembered at the last, suffering him by a cold (which he had taken by going barefoot, and whipping himself for his lascivious sins) to grow first into a fever, and then into a madness, which sent him raving, and foolishly speaking, to receive his judgement. The Queen mother as ashamed that Ahitophel should prove Nabal, caused it to be reported about the Court, that the man went to GOD, in most sweet meditations; but the other was so evident, that every body laughed at the simplicity of their devise, who would have that covered, which the Lord had showed of purpose, that every one's 
y 1. Sam 3. 11.  ears who heard of it might tingle.  T. HILL. 
BUT who knoweth not that the Catholics as they have converted all to Christianity that ever were Christians: so in this age they have brought infinite numbers to the Christian faith in the East & West Indies, by the means and labours of the most happy and holy fathers of the holy Order of St. Francis, of S. Dominicke, and of the blessed Society of jesus, which blessed Religious men in our own Country there of England, only in regard of their sacred function are executed as Traitors. And have not these I pray you their authority from Rome?  G. ABBOT. 
4 THE vanity and unwisenesse of this asseveration; I have plentifully showed before. But here I do add, that there is scant any Country whose Authentical Records do prove, that your Romanistes (for these you must mean, as in your former speech) brought first the faith unto them. Of italy, France and Germany I will say nothing: let them answer for themselves; but we English men may best speak of England. 
z Bristol Mo●…v. 17.  Some Papists have said it that Augustine the Monk was the first, who brought the faith into England by Gregory's means, and therefore they doubt not to call him our Apostle. Let it be that some Saxons first received by him Baptism; yet who beholdeth not in Bed●… 
a Eccl. Hist. lib. 1. 7. 8.  writing that story, that Christianity had been in Britain long before? There were then British Bishops who well knew the faith of CHRIST, and liked 
b Lib 2. 2.  not of Austen for the pride which they saw to be in him. But long before this, was the name of Christ known in this Island, 
c Bed Hist. 1. 7.  Albanus being here martyred, Helena the mother of Constantine the Great being 
d Huntingt. Histor. lib. 1.  borne here as it is storied, and Pelagius the heretic against whom Saint Austen the Bishop of Hippo wrote, being of this country. 
e Bed lib 1▪ 10:  So that it is but a toy, that Gregory's Monk was the first that ever brought Christianity hither. The wiser sort of Papists, having it out of 
f Lib: 4. 19:  Monumetensis, who long since was branded for a 
g 〈◊〉 in pro●…m: Hist●…r:  fabulous writer, and from 
h Lib: 2: c: 21  Freculphus who was one of some better credit, say that King Lucius of Britanny, about the year of our Lord 180. did send to Eleutherius the Bishop of Rome, & from him had some sent in, who baptized him & his people. This so overthrowing that other opinion concerning Austen, is ordinarily taken up among our Romanists themselves, in so much that M. Watson in his 
i Quodlib: 814:  Quodlibets, nameth for preachers of Christ, Fugatius & Damianus, supposed to be sent hither by 
k 〈◊〉: 4: 19:  Eleutherius, among the old Albion Britain's, & Saint Austen amongst the English Saxons, of whom we all came. But as touching that of Elentherius, the 
l 〈◊〉. Fo●… in Hist: Eccles:  letter ●…owe extant as sent from King Lucius unto him, is rather for a Copy of the civil and Imperial laws of Rome, to be sent unto him into England, then for any thing else there mentioned. I may not therefore here forget, that it is received for a verity, that yet long before the days of Lucius and Eleutherius, the seed of the Gospel was sown in Britain, even in the prime age of the Apostles, by joseph of Arimathea; which by the jesuite 
m Controv. cap. 2.  Costerus is not concealed when he saith, For men will have, or they say, that joseph of Arimathea in the Apostles time was in England, and that Simon the Leper didgovern the Church Cenomanensis in France. And to manifest that this is very probable, it shall not be amiss briefly to cite such reasons, as Master 
n Eccle. Histor. l. 2.  Fox hath collected, to show that the Britaines had received CHRIST, before the days of Eleutherius and Lucius, who lived about the year of our LORD 180. First he citeth out of 
o De victor. Aure●… Ambros.  Gildas, that in the year 63. Philip the Apostle sent joseph of Arimathea hither out of France, and he first laid the foundation of Christian Religion. Secondly out of Tertullian, that 
p Contr. Indaeos.  the places of the Britain's which were inaccessible by the Romans, were subject to Christ. Thirdly out of 
q Homil. 4. in Ezech.  Origene specifying that since the coming of Christ, Britain did consent to the knowledge of the only God, and both Tertullian and Origene, he reputeth to be, before the time of Eleutherius a little. Fourthly out of Bede 
r Histor. Eccl. l. 5. 22.  signifieth that the Britaines in his time, especially such as had not conformed themselves, a little before to the Roman fashion, did keep their Easter after the manner of the East Church. Fiftly out of Petrus 〈◊〉 writing to Saint Bernard, and affirming that the Scots kept their Easter in the same manner, which showeth that all the parts of this Island were brought to CHRIST, by some who came out of the East; or else the ceremonies should have been planted after the fashion of the Western Church. Sixtly out of 
s Lib. 2. 40  Nicephorus, affirming that Simon Zelotes brought the Gospel into the Isles of Britain. Seventhly 
s Epistol. ad Eleuther.  from Lucius himself, who plainly signifieth that he had received CHRIST, before the sending to Eleutherius for the Roman Laws. These reasons collected by Master Foxe are more of force, than the slight testimonies of such late writers, as may mistake one thing for another, the sending for of the Imperial laws, to be to call for the faith of Christ. But admit it were thus, and we should yield to the conceit of these later authors, what maketh this for them, or against us? Since the words of the Apostle Paul may be used in this behalf, 
t 1. Cor. 14. 36.  Came the word of God out from you? that is to say, were you the first city whence the Gospel was derived? was it Rome itself that had it originally? or was it not rather converted, by that which came from jerusalem? That city in judea was the fountain of all, & therefore if any place should be respected for that which is past, Jerusalem should be renowned, and magnified even of Rome itself, and of all other, because from thence all primarily, (albeit some mediately and some immedi●…tely) sucked the doctrine of the Christian faith. But as our Papists in this case make no account of Jerusalem, since the glory both inward and outward thereof is decayed, so we make as little reckoning of Rome, which is so utterly swerved from the purity of that profession, which it had not only in the time of the Apostles, but even of Eleutherius, that vix 
u Terent. in Eunucho.  cognoscas cand●…m esse. We can in no sort discern it to be the same.  
5 What a harvest your Dominicane and Franciscane Friars have made in the Indies, I defer to recount till I come to the next Chapter. Only here I tell you, that upon uncontrollable warrant we find not, that almost any man of worth, for learning, wisdom, warfare or government, hath by his conversion given any testimony to Christendom, of the good which your Friars have done among the Indians. You please yourselves with fancies, and mulus mulum scabit, one of you doth falsely trumpet the praises of another. If you be such convetters, why go you not into Africa, into the kingdoms of Morocco and Fez, to Tunis or Argier? From Spain or Italy, the distance is not much to these. Or why do you not cross the Adriatic sea, & step into Grecia or Morea? why traveile you not farther to Constantinople, Tripoli or Aleppo to win men from Mahomet, which is so much the easier, because all these Turks & Saracens admit of some Positions belonging to the Christian faith, but the Indians accept of none. Truth it is, that unto these places, other nations of Christendom for traffic do resort; and therefore if you should report any untruth concerning these, you would quickly be disproved. But far traveilers may say more than ordinary men, and for that cause you tell us a tale of the Indies, and some of your men say that there they cast out Devils also. They do well to lay it in places so distant●… for although they egregiously feign, yet we shall hardly take them tripping: it is no ready work to convince them. But we imagine that your attempts for conversion, may have the same success in the East and West Indies, as the offer of your 
u Maff Hist. Lib. 1.  Portugal Priests and Friars had in Congo, where adventuring upon very small acquaintance, to baptise the king and the inhabitants, the most part as your Historiographer saith, (but it is to be feared that all) quickly renounced Christianity, & returned to their heathenish wallowing in the mire. They disliked not the first principles of the faith, neither the Ceremonies therein, but when they were called upon to leave their gross vices, as adultery and witchcraft and seeking to Devils, to remit injuries, to restore things unjustly taken each from other, they would not endure these exhortations, but like reneging Apostatas they became as before. And of likelihood so it fell out frequently with the Spaniards in America, where they 
x Petr. Martyr. Decad. 3. 10.  were exceeding nimble in administering baptism, to those who knew very little. Had it not been fit, that before the Sacrament had been imparted, the Infidels should out of God's book largely have heard of many things? which course john the Baptist did take, preaching repentance; 
y Math. 3. 2  and that would well have tried them before hand, and so God's name might not have been dishonoured, nor Baptism abused, nor the people made the worse, nor the Priest never the better. Doth not the true Church of Christ gain much by such titulary bargains, and is not God's kingdom much increased through it? And yet doubtless such good matches your Friars also make in the Indies, but especially in those of the East, where the inhabitants have more wit, and your messengers have lesser power. And if it be so and no otherwise, yet with us here in Europe, all these must go for good Christians, and if there be a score of such Nu●…s Christians, we shall hear of five hundred. So much may a tal●… grow in co●… so 〈◊〉. And the reporters speak for their own reputation, and therefore without questioning you must believe them.  
6 But I cannot choose but here smile, at the virtuous titles which you bestow upon the jesuits, when you call them the blessed Society of Ies●…, and th●… blessed religious men. How gladly would you claw them, who perhaps lately at 
z Apolog. of the Archpriest●…c a. 5.  Rome did clapper-clawe you? And albeit you be now got to be a Doctor of Divinitye, yet since it was certainly against their 
a Answer to the Manifestat. c. 1  wills, you are with them but in nature of a Probationer, and an eye is c●…rryed over you, so that if once again you exorbitate from the rule of your superiors, have at you for an old grudge. Since your coming into England, to the end that you may deserve better of your good Lords the jesuits, you have set out this present Pamphlet; yet the cold commendation which was upon you, continueth still, leaving an imputation of weak judgement in you by your credulity, and of heat and rashness in your apprehensions and contentions. Yet now standing upon your trial, there is some hope that the tongue which formerly you exercised upon these jolly jesuits in the College at Rome, shall be turned against your King and Country, that in time you also may be if not a jesuite, yet one of those blessed men, who having their authority from Rome, and not from heaven, from Antichrist and not from God, may be entertained as a T●…ytour. You begin pretty well, and if you hold on but a while, and increase as you desire, you may deserve such a preferment. The jesuits as you tell us have their authority from Rome, not from jesus, and what a forge of mischief that Rome hath been against England, he is blind who doth not see. 
b Sand. de Schismat.  Thence came the sentence against King Henry the eight. Thence was continual hatred derived against our late Sovereign, from the day of her birth, until her dissolution from this mortality. Thence came the excommunication by Pius the fift, the declaration of the same by Sixtus the fift, the ratification of it by Clement the eight, if the Spanish General in 
c An. 1601:  Ireland did witness a truth. Hence came the Conspiracy of one Noble man, now acknowledged by 
d Catena in vita pij 5.  him who written the life of Pope Pius the fift, the insurrection of other Nobles, the attempts on Ireland in the Lord Gray's time, the encouraging and aiding of the vincible fleet in the year 1588. the late tumults in Ireland, besides such infinite projects by Ballarde, Parrhy, Lopez, Squire, and such infamous varlets, to destroy her who was the most famous and renowned Prince of Christendom. These things were sufficient, to cause the honourable Council, and chief Magistrates not to sleep, but as with eyes opened toward you: And if wisdom will say 
e Virgil. Aen. 2.  ab uno disce omnes, or ex unguibus leonem, pretend you as long as you will, that the jesuits are here executed for their sacred Function, we have reason not to doubt, but somewhat more there is in it. He who wrote the jesuits Catechism in French, as he hath many memorable matters, touching the sweet and sacred vices of these unblessed and irreligious Fathers, so he hath some thing touching England, as that 
f Lib. 3. 3.  Parrhyes' attempt in the year 1584., And 
g Cap. 4.  Squires in the year 1597, was plotted, encouraged and abetted by the jesuits, as he showeth by the whole process of it. These devises can be the execution of no function which is holy, unless you will take it to be holy after the Devil's fashion. And may it not well be supposed, that they who were so wickedly affected toward our last Sovereign, will carry the same mind toward our present King, the mirror of all Princely virtues, unless the everlasting blessing of God, and prudent fore-fight otherwise do restrain them? What love this jesuitical crew doth bear to his Highness, let that one thing in steed of all testify, that they combined abroad, and to their best plotted at home, to bring a Spanish Princess the Infanta into that throne, which by all right divine and human belonged to his Majesty, as the indubitate heir to the Imperial Crowns of these kingdoms of England and Ireland. This intendment of theirs, is as clear as the noon day, by 
h Doleman.  Persons his book of Succession, by the urging of the Students in the Seminaries to subscribe to the Spanish title, if it were but in blanks, by the frequent charging of the jesuits therewith, in the late books of the Secular Priests, & their Assistants; unto all which the Author of the Apology and Manifestation, doth not so much as faintly, & for a fashion, give the least denial. We doubt not therefore but his most illustrious Majesty, will be circumspect against such vipers, and that his Highness considereth the fruits of them, and their doctrine in France, the murder of King Henry the third, the animating of Paris and so many great cities to rebellion against the puissant King now regnant, the attempts of 
i sasuit. cat. lib. 3. 6.  Peter Barrier, and 
k Cap. 8.  john castle (by the lesuites means) to commit murder and parricide upon his royal person, besides all the doctrine which they have of the want of E●…ds, to slay Kings whom they hold tyrants, of the Pope's ' power to excommunicate Princes, and to absolve subjects from the oath of their allegiance, of all Clergy men in a kingdom exempt from the chastisement and government of the temporal or Civil Monarch, and only subject to the Bishop of Rome, the verity of which points he may at large see, who will read that little but excellent treatise, Le Fra●…c Dis●…rs. Their vow of blind obedience to their Superiors, their position of ordine ad Deum, their rule of propter bonum societatis, will infer any varletry, traiterousnesse, villainy, or impiety in the world, be it whatsoever. Lastly the experience which is had of them, doth manifest that they are like the old pharisees, of whom 
l Antiquit. lib. 17. 3.  josephus could say, that they were aprowde generation and dangerous unto Kings; for they entered Polony, and 
m Quodlib. 3. 7.  strait there followed upon it a rebellion against their Sovereign, they have been the means that 
n jes. Catec. lib. 3. 16.  Stephen Batori now king of Poleland, is thrust from his ancient kingdom of Sweden, & the whole life of the activer sort of them, being nothing but a 
o Quodlib. in praefat.  tampering in state causes, and Princes affairs, their felicity is to set the Realms where they come into a combustion. If then for these and the like reasons, the King of France professing for the Romish faith, hath by solemn Edict banished these jebusites out of his kingdom, and that on pain of death, and they are not harboured in his Realm, but only in Bordeaux and Tholouse, which is to be hoped will also shortly be redressed; is it to be wondered, that our kingdom professing the reformed religion, & being England which of old could endure no wolves should abandon this lewd Society? It might rather be reputed a singular weakedesse, in so wise and vigilant a State, as God be praised this is, if there should not be provision made to keep out such Caterpillars, or rather Foxes and Bears, who come to destroy the flock, and instead of converting of countries whereof you speak, intend the perverting of consciences, and turning them from that due obedience, which they own to the Almighty God of heaven, and to his Vicegerent here among us. It hath pleased the Lord long agone, to open the eyes of our Governors, to see the drifts of these men, and we are to pray that their hearts may ever be inspired, to see the execution of such wholesome laws, that some may take the 
p Cant. 2. 15  Foxes, the little Foxes which destroy the Uines, that is to say, such body-killing, & soule-murthering spiritual enemies, who destroy many a weak woman and unadvised rash young man.  T. HILL. 
I will not here speak of the infinite number of Miracles, wrought by Catholics in conversion of countries, and namely of those which are now done in both the Indies, by the holy Father's aforesaid, for that I reserve that matter for his proper place: but I would advise you here diligently to weigh the sequel of the Assertion of the Protestants: how that if Papists be not true Christians, and of the right religion then doth it necessarily follow, that neither Spaniards, nor Portugese's, nor Sardinians, nor Sicilians, nor Italians, nor Germans, nor Transylvanians, nor Hungarians, nor Polovians, nor Danes, nor Flemings, nor Scots, nor Irish, nor English, no nor any Nation under heaven had ever true Religion, before Friar Luther married Moune Bore, before john Calvin run away to Geneva, before Peter Martyr with his Fustolugges came to teach at Oxford, and before a number of such like good companions, led only by sensuality and carnal zeal dishodded themselves and became such spectacles to the world as every man knoweth. Which thing to affirm is flatly to deny Christ, and all Christianity, as I showed in my first Reason.  G. ABBOT. 
YOur mounstrous Miracles you put over to another Chapter, and thither (God willing) I will follow you, so that in good time you shall hear of me. The foolishness and ridiculousness of this your other assertion I have 
q Answer to the 1. Reason.  already manifested: but here you are disposed to commemorate the nations of Christendom, although to small purpose well I wot, (unless you would have us note that you put the Spaniards first, and the English last.) For if you have named the French also, & the Bohemians, & Muscovites & Grecians, we must answer you that among these or so many of these, as it seemed good to the divine Providence, there was true Religion; and yet the grosser sort of your Papists had none of it, albeit some touched with some small stains of Popery did belong to God's kingdom. And these were not only before the birth of these excellent men whom you name, but in all ages since Christ his time. Wherhfore your bold talking here, is no better than idle trifling. That Doctor Luther was a Friar and his wife a Nun, will be easily granted unto you; but in a Christian man's understanding, what more prejudice is therein, then that 
r Exod. 2. 10  Moses for a time was brought up as the son of Phara●…s daughter, or that 
s Act. 23. 6.  St. Paul was a Pharisee, or that 
s Luk 82. 3.  Mary Magdalone was agrievous sinner, or 
t Luk. 19 1.  Zacheus the master of the custom? It was no fault for 
u Gen. 19: 12  Let to come out of Sodom, neither is it to be blamed, that any hasten out of 
u Apoc: 18: 4  Babylon. But the grief is that he a Votary did marry her a Votary, which Campians malice so expresseth, 
x Ration: 3:  d●…ec incesto 〈◊〉 votam Deo virginem f●…sset, and this quarrel you have also against many other rare instruments of God's glory. But if you will look to that where your eie●… ought to be set, the true fault was, that in their younger-days being swayed by the course of those times, they had without mature judgement taken a vow upon them, which was very rash and unadvised. From the making of such vows Solomon 
y Eccl. 5: 5:  doth dehort, Suffer not thy mouth to make thy flesh to fin: He wisheth that men should be so provident as absolutely to promise nothing, which they had not strong assurance that they might well perform. And that vows should not be made, which afterward lead to inevitable sin. Concerning the oath of I●…phthe, 
z In quaest: & Resp: ad Orthodox: quaest 99:  lustine Martyr saith thus, God did suffer the daughter of jephthe to be offered as a sacrifice, not that he did delight in man's blood but that posterity might hau●… that sch●…ling, that they should never dedicate their vows to God at large, or indefinitely. Then by the judgement of justine there is no doubt, but men may make too large vows to God himself. In as much then as these persons had taken on them a yoke, which though it be not so, absolutely to all, yet to them in their conscience was insupportable, and they felt with themselves that they might not continue under that burrhen without grievous sin for the preventing whereof the Apostle had propounded a remedy, 
a 1: Cor: 7. 9  If they cannot abstain let them mary, for it is better to marry then to burn, I doubt not but in the fear of God, with sober & long deliberation they did undo that, which by the incitement of their friends, or indiscreetely of their own heads they had formerly done. And that Lord who under the Levitical law was so merciful, as to appoint a 
b Levit: 5: 4:  trespass offering for such a one as had made any vow rashly, assigning him to confess his fault & then pardoning the same, would also remit unto his excellent servants, whom he had singled out to help so much to the building of his tabernacle, that temerations bond which they had made, since with repentance & grief, they acknowledged their former presumption that way. And that such who after their vow could not live continently, might marry, Epiphanius doth witness, who when he hath distinguished between judgement & condemnation, & said 
c Epiphan: Haeres: 611  that better is judgement whereof the Apostle speaketh then condemnation he resolveth the case thus: It is better therefore to have one sin & not more. It is better that he who is fallen from his course, should openly take unto him a wife according to the law, and from his virginity a great while should repent, and so again be brought into the Church, as one that hath wrought evil, as one who is fallen and broken, and hath need of binding up, & not to be wounded every day with secret darts, by the wickedness which is brought upon him by the Devil. Thus the Church knoweth to preach. These are the medicines of healing. These are the kinds of anointing confession. And Jerome although when he was young he had written, Virgins 
d Lib: 1: contr lovinian  which after their conseerating have married are not so much adulterous as incestuous, which is to be understood, if they might any ways contain, yet thirty years after (for so it is to be collected out of his Epistle Ad Demetriadem) seeing how the Church was blemished by the incontinency and want oneness of some Votaries, saith thus, The name of some Virgins who bear not themselves well, doth defame the holy purpose of Virgins, and the glory of the family of heaven and Angels. Unto whom it is openly to be said, that either they should marry if they cannot contain themselves, or should contain, if they be unwilling to marry. Thus this father permitteth marriage to vowed persons, if they cannot chastened lead a single life, neither doth he think their marriage to be a sin, as neither did Saint Austen: but if there be a fault, it is because they break their vow. 
* Aug. de bono vidui. tat cap. 9  Not because she marriage itself, even of such is judged to be condemned or damnable, but the breaking of their purpose is condemned, the faith of their vow being broken is condemned; there is condemned not an 
e Susceptio à bono inferiore  undertaking from an inferior good, but a fall from a higher good. So speaketh he who both there and 
f In psa. 83.  elsewhere liketh not the slipping from vowed virginity; which we also do not like, if there be any godly means to continue in it, without perpetual enormous sin; wherein the trial must be a man's own conscience soberly and most advisedly consulted, as between God & the soul, and not the opinions of other men. And I may not do such wrong to Luther & his wife, or to other of that time, as not to think that with long & ponderous advice, they weighed what was fittest in this case to be done.  
8 That john Calvine did run away to Geneva is a ridiculous accusation, much false, and more foolish. And whereas you suppose that he was the first who preached the Gospel at Geneva, as now it is there preached, that is one of your ignorances: for a reverend man Farellus by name, did plant the same doctrine in Geneva, before that Calvine came thither: Which if no body else would have told you, you might have learned of 
g in Antid. Matth 23.  Stapleton. But before both those, as also before the coming of Peter Martyr to Oxford, even from our Saviour's time, the truth which we profess, is and hath ever been: and when you have brabbled as long as you can, you shall never show to the contrary. Now when you name these three, Luther, Calvin and Martyr, you do not dishonour them, but grace them, since when they are rightly thought of, they are like 
h 2. Sam. 23 12.  three of David's worthies, or in a sort like the 
i Dan. 3. 12.  three children which were in the fiery furnace and not burnt, being ever in the flame of Popish rancour and slander, & all maledicous defamation, and yet lovely to the places where they lived, dying all of them in peace, and the memory of them blessed, as being great bel-wethers in God's flock, & renowned Captains in the lords battles. How happy are those men, who for their constant standing in the gap, against Satan & Antichrist, are every day illustrated, and made celebrious, by the maligning of the adversaries of truth? Their souls are in peace, and their glory is promulgated by their enemy's trumpets, who the more they oppugn them, the more we do love them, and eternize the memory of them. These and other their consorts, as the Archbishop Cranmer with other of the English, Melancthon and Bucer, and Fagius and many more of their rank, were no such lose companions and sensual men as you fond do here intimate, neither ever did they become bad spectacles to the world, but led their lives in study, in preaching and writing, which may well appear by such volumes of their works, as having been laid on the Pope's back, have broken many ribs of him, that they never will be able to close again. Their learning, their industry, their faithfulness, their virtuous conversation every way, might be a glass and mirror to your Cardinals and Bishops, and all your Romish Clergy, where for the most part ignorance and idleness, and wantonness doth abound. And what marvel can it be, that men so foreordained by the secret providence of the Almighty, to do such noble service in the camp of the everlasting Lord, and to ransack the walls of Babylon, should upon the apprehension of God's pleasure therein, make speed to come forth of spiritual Gomorrha, and lay aside their superstitious and friarly weed, which was the livery of him, who was mortal enemy to their Master Christ jesus? if 
k Gen. 39 12  joseph were praiseworthy for leaving his own garment behind him, rather than to yield to any lewd action which might concern manners, how are they to be honoured for leaving the devils cloth, when they might not enjoy it, unless they did prostitute both body & soul to idolatrous abomination? And whereas here you bestow your remembrance on Peter Mattyrs wife, how blessed was she living, and how happy is her soul now, that she should in such sort be exagitated for Christ his sake? She was neither flaps nor fustelugs, but a woman indeed of body reasonably corpulent, but of most matron-like modesty, for the which she was much reverenced by the most: she was of singular patience, of excellent arts and qualities, and among other things, for her recreation she delighted to cut plummestones into curious faces and countenances, of which exceeding artificially done, I once had one with a woman's visage and head attire on the one side, and a Bishop with his mitre on the other, which was the elegant work of her hands. By divers yet living in Oxford this good woman is remembered, and commended as for her other virtues, so for her liberality to the poor, which by Master 
l In Histor. Eccl. Sub Maria Reg.  Foxe writing how she was entreated after her death is rightly mentioned. For love of true religion, and the company of her husband, she left her own country to come into England in K. Edward's days, and so good was her fame here, that when the Papists in Q. Mary's time being able to get nothing against her being dead, were yet desirous to wreske their teen upon her integrity, they would needs rage's upon the bones of her, a woman and a stranger, and took them out of her grave from Christian burial, and buried them in a dounghill. 
Pascitur in vivis livor, post fata quiescit.  
Envy doth use on living folks to gnaw:  
But be they dead, she doth herself withdraw.  Yet this was their Romish charity and Popish humanity, which one wondering at, did recommend the remembrance of it to these verses:  

Foemineum sexum Romani semper amarunt:  
Proijciunt corpus cur muliebre foras?  
Hoc si in quaras, facilis responsio danda oft,  
Corpor a non curant mortua, viva petunt.  
The Popish crow have evermore the female sex embraced,  
How is it that a woman's corpse they have from grave displaced?  
Thus if you ask, right readily mine answer may be this,  
Their bodies dead they care not for, live ones they clip and kiss.   T. HILL. 
ANd surely I am greatly confirmed in the Catholic religion, beholding the Heavenly manner, used by the professors thereof in gaining souls to Almighty God, for that I see them neither to spare goods 〈◊〉 labours, ●…o nor their own lives, so that they may w●… people to Heaven. Gregory the thirteenth Pope of that name in these our days, spent all the reve●…wes of the Popedom in founding Se●…ies and Colleges i●… divers L●…des and Provinces, thereby to restore the catholics religion.  G. ABBOT. 
9 IT is not this which confirmeth you in Popery, but your discontented humour, your passionate credulity, and most of all, want of the grace of God, who leaving you to yourself because you took delight in human inventions, now suffereth you to strive to prove some body, in keeping up the rotten & ruinous temple of Antichrist. For there is nothing named by you here, which should be forcible as to detain you in your perverseness, since if those acts which you pretend, were granted you, yet they are matters common with mis-creants, the Turks yearly sparing no cost, nor forbearing to adventure their lives in Hungary, that they may repel the forces of the Christians, & farther propagate their Mahometan profession. And the manner which your men use is not heavenly but earthly, since their care is more to bring in all whom they may gain, to the Bishop of Rome, or the king of Spain then to the ●…old of jesus Christ. But this your asseveration you exemplify first in Gregory the 13. who in the founding of Seminaties and Colleges in diverse lands, spent all the revenewe of the Popedom. I have told you before of your general speeches without sense, reason and probability. Were you great Treasurer, or Master of the Fisco in those days, that you either knew his receipts or his expenses? How did his Holiness maintain his estate, his family, his soldiers, his guard, his galleys, & those huge sums, whereat great Commanders are every day? How did he send abroad his spies, and maintain discord among Christian Princes? Did not his purse walk, think you? And since his own revenue was spent as you say, did he borrow, or go to best be trust for all the rest? A sober man would be ashamed, to think that such a speech should come from a Doctor of Divinity. What, was it his rent for a 
m Papirius Masson in vita Greg. 13.  house in Bonony, which was left him by Bo●…-Compagnon, his father, that bore all the rest of his charges? he much helped his poor ●…inred, as his brother's son, whom he made a Cardinal, & Philip his sister's son, & others, & this so plentifully, as that the author of the story in some words is constrained to Apologize him for it. And if it should be thought that the most of their preferments were in spiritual live, yet what say you for his base son (no news that with the Popes) james Bo●…-Compagnon, whom he would call 
n Ibidem.  his son according to the flesh? He made him marquess of Vineola not far Fron ferrara, & general of all his forces as well horse as foot: he married him to a daughter of the house of the Comtes of Saint Flora: he bought the town Sora for him, and got the King of Spain to entitle him Duke thereof; he purchased for him Arpmum the country of old Cicer●…, & left him much wealth beside. And I pray you where had he all his money; but out of Saint Peter's purse, and from the income of the Papacy? Yea, since wars be more costly than peace, where had he all the treasure, which he bestowed on the Italians; whom he sent into 
o Important considerate.  Ireland (whereof few brought him any tidings back again) or on Stukley & his train, & many other such good businesses? How do you bob your scholars, when you give them such googeos? Truth it is that he spent more in erecting such houses, than either his Predecessors or Successors have done. He who writeth the life of 
p Concenat Eccl Cathol. in Angl●…  Campian, saith that he erected a Seminary at Rome for the English, & at Rheims another, one at Lauretum for the Sclavonians, one for the Germans at Rome, & another for the Greeks. 
q In vita Gregor. 13.  P●…pirius Mass●…s doth not leave him there, but saith that he commanded, that such houses also should be erected out of italy, as one at Uienna upon Danubius, another at Vilva in Lituani●…, a third at Claudiopolis in Transilvania, and in japonia near ●…udia he commanded three Colleges to be built. But he doth not tell us at whose charges these were erected, or what was given to maintain them, And certainly they were for the most part but poor & starved things, such as whereof they themselves do make small boast. The glory of his acts was the maintenance of the English Colledg●…, where at the first, he gave monthly at 
r Apolog. cap. 3.  Rome out of his treasury three hundred crowns, and one hundred to the other nearer England, as Persons reporteth, which arising at the uttermost by the year to no more than fifteen or sixteen hundred pound English, it was but a small pull out of the Pope's revenue. Yet how long this full pay lasted no body can tell. And we must take it to be so on Father Persons his bare word, who as one of the 
s Io. Colletons' just defence. pag. 298.  Seculars reporteth, hath in that book as many lies as leaves, or perhaps pages, if not so many as exceed either. Now who doth not know, that the tribute which the Curti●…anes of Rome do yearly yield to the Pope, by many degrees amounteth that trifling sum? And out of that honest pay he might well spare a part, to maintain such as would be his vassals, & do their best to help him in far greater matters. And their allowance being extracted out of this sweet Impost, the speech of one of our countrymen might the better be verified, which I confess was very blunt, but you must take it as it is. He getteth it, quoth he by whores, & therefore he may more boldly bestow it upon knaves. His zeal to his Prince & country which were disturbed by such Emissaries, made him speak more plainly than many will like.  
11 But it is your favourable interpretation, when you construe Gregory's meaning to be nothing but winning of people to heaven, & the restoring of religion. The Court of Rome hath an e●…e to somewhat else besides this. It was not for nought that it was wont to be said, by a truer speech than verses Curia Romana non captat ovem sine lana. 
In court of Rome do not abide such geese  
A sto catch after sheep that have no fleece.   
A great part of Christendom hath withdrawn itself from that see, and therefore somewhat must be adventured to get some part of it back again. Nothing adventure, nothing have, Gregory was not so ignorant, but that he knew that rule of 
s Comm●…tar. lib. 〈◊〉.  C●…us, that great men must do good, & that to divers, & if many be unthankful, or some by in-ability can do nothing, yet it may fall out, that one may require all that cost, which hath bi●… bestowed on the rest. If but one of those countries in Christendone, which are now freed from the Pope, could be brought back again by the help●… of his Alunnes, that would pay for the charges of all the other. But England especially was a fair flower in the Pope's garland, & therefore nothing must be left unattempted, to see what good might be done thereupon, When 
t Onuphr: in julio: 3:  julius the 3. was advertised from Q. Mary, that England was by Parliament re-submitted to the Church of Rome, he made solemn Processions & public thanksgivings throughout his whole chief city. The men who were coming toward him, were somewhat to rejoice his old spirits, but the money was more. What with the souls, & what with the silver which he devoured in his hope, he was exceedingly contented. Their Records could tell them, that England of all places was their garden like Paradise, that here they had more work than in any one nation in Christendom, which may be seen by so many solemn Rescripts directed into this our country, and now to be found in the body of their Canonlaw. And they did not lose their labour by looking this way. It was business to them more gainful, than the robbing of beggars. If 
u Matth. Par. in Henric. 3.  three hundred years agone the Popes could say of England, Est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, It is a pit that cannot be draw●… dry, they cannot but imagine that now the world is well amended, some skrapes and fragments of the Indian gold and silver, being come amongst us also to amend our little store. This I tell you is a fair bait, to make Gregory the thirteenth, and Clemens the 8. also, to have a months mind unto us. You ●…ell us of another matter▪ but we do not doubt of this. But God ever bless us from any more such bargains. And as the man of Rome in maintaining of the English Colleges, may well be supposed to have longed after this our Realm, that here he might exercise his spiritual jurisdiction: so it is as easy to con●…eave, and as probable to believe, that when Philip the second and this present King of Spain have been at that charge to keep an English Seminary at Dow●…y, and a College at Validolid, and other companies elsewhere, and that with so large expense as to send two 
u Apolog. cap.▪ 3●…  thousand crowns at a time, they were not without hope, that the temporal dominion of this kingdom, might one day befall a Prince of Spanish blood. And this our fugitive jesuits have been ready to put into those monarch heads, assuring that the end of one Lady's reign, would be the beginning of another's. But he who sitteth in 
x Psal. 2. 4.  heaven doth laugh their devises to scorn, he hath deluded their sooth sayings, frustrated the●… 
y Weston. in Pe●…oration.  Prophecies, made their hopes in vain, so that shame and confusion is on their face which as we trust, will humble them, & bring many of them to discern the truth. The Lord be praised for all his wondrous works, and give us grace to be thankful for them. Notwithstanding in the mean while it is much to be feared, that the Pope and Spanish King finding themselves to be abused by lies and tales, and fond brags of Persons and Cr●…swel, & UUorthington and Weston, and such other mates, and that in all worldly presumption they are farther from their expectation, than ever they were, will withdraw that exhibition wherewith hitherto they have charged themselves, and turn both our old and young masters a grazing, to see if they can make any other shift, and with their jesuitical face beguile other Princes also. Perhaps for safeguard of their own honour, this shall not at first be done, lest all men should say, that it was not for absolute devotion that they were at this expense: but before it be long we will expect such news. It may be that God may use this as a means to bring some of them to heaven.  T. HILL. 
MAny holy and religious Priests do go daily into Germany, into Hungary, into Greece, into Palestina, into Egypt, into Syria, into Aethiopia, into Africa, into Moscovia, into Ireland, into Scotland, into England, and into other heretical and heathen countries, yielding themselves to all dangers by sea and land, and to all worlali●… miseries, having mortified all their carnal affections, renounced all riches, honours and kindred, and having made themselves most ready for their grave, and consequently for another world, moved only by the zeal of saving souls. And it moveth me not a little to see what patience, mildness and quietness these men use in all their doings.  G. ABBOT. 
11 THat the men whom you send abroad are holy and religious, you must give us time to credit hereafter. but that many of them are simple men, & sent like 
z Prov. 7. 22  salomon's fool blindfolded to the stocks, we easily believe. Your great crafty companions such as Allen & Barret, & H●…lt were, & as Gifford & Worthington now are, keep themselves safe enough. It was but a copy of 
a Concert. Eccle. ●…athol. in Angl part. 2.  Goldw●…ll some time's Bishop of S. Asaph, his countenance, that he would come back hither. By that time he came to Rheims his mind was altered: he was sick forsooth, & he was too well known in England. Persons was once here, but he thought long ere he was gone. He would 
b Apolog. cap. 12.  excuse his running away, but the Seculars hold it inexcusable. It may well be seen what mind the old foxes have to come hither, by that so many of them took their Degrees of Doctorship of Divinity, as that there were seven of them English in that one College at Douai, (if a bird of their own nest did report truth) within these five years. When these did hold themselves more exempt than common men, from the ordinary mission, his 
c Sept. 18. 159●…. ●…o Collet. ust. Defe●…ce. fol. ●…54.  Holiness was enforced to inhibit, that any more of them should take that highest Degree in Divinity or law, but by special leave of Superiors, and on strait conditions. And I would gladly learn of any man, what one of any worth hath now for these diverse last years been sent hither from the Seminaries. All the late comers (for aught that can yet be discovered) are but simple fellows, howsoever they sometimes are magnified, by some of their own party more unlearned than themselves. Luscus dominatur inter cacos. But the true matter of their going abroad is this. When they are admitted into the Seminaries, they are all bound by a positive oath or vow, that they shall be at the direction of their Superiors, to go whither soever they shall employ them, And this doth 
d Anolog. cap. 11.  Persons boast to be his devise, touching the English Seminaries at Rome and in Spain. Hereupon they take occasion to rid them oft away, sending them not as sheep but as wolves to the slaughter. If they be seditious, they have learned the precept of 
e De legib. Dial. 5.  Plato, for the purging of ill humours: they must away. If they see them sufficiently armed to do mischief, they must away. So must they do if their maintenance grow short. And if there be nothing else, yet the sink must be emtied, if not wholly yet some part, to make room for more filth coming. This sendeth the poor boy-Priests & other silly ones abroad: who being put to this exigent, make the best of it, & encourage one another in the hope of gaining souls to the Devil. But when they come to places of danger, blind bayard may be bold, but that sort which hath more wit than grace, will make some shift for themselves. Then they may conceal one part of a sentence to themselves, & speak the other falsely; then they may equivocate & speak doubtfully, yea then if need be they make an untrue oath, as being c●…rū non judice. Then some truly turn to our religion, & save both body and soul. Other will counterfeit so much, & at the next occasion relapse to their vomit. Some under a colour of detecting much to the State, come into the chief magistrates, and open all that they can, and so they are the freer from danger. Other being Prisoners sue to the LL, that they may be heard to excuse themselves, & lay all the former treason on the jesuits, & the partakers with the Archpriest. And the rest lie hid, more respecting their own safety, than the charge of their Supe riours. Thus we are sure that here they do. As for Greece or Palesti na, Egypt or Aethiopia & the other farther regions here named, few of them go thither: & such as are employed, do only serve for spies, to view the actions of great Princes & Stats in the world, so to inform the Spaniard, or other who much depend, upon him: whereby the Spanish King may take opportunity so to enlarge his dominions, or to enter new & commodious traffic, or at least to defeat such forces, as are prepared against his Portugese's in the East Indies. Hence it is, that these Priests concealing their profession, take the greatest care that they can to learn the languages, or to make maps of the countries. But where be those Turks or Saracens, or Ethiopians, or Infidels, which may truly by them be said to be won to the Christian faith▪ I would hear of some one man or woman of note indeed, brought by them to the flock of Christ jesus. I know they talk much of the Eastern parts, but there the harvest may be laid into a little barn. In the days of Gregory the 13. their great Statesman 
f Possev●…. de rebu●… Moscov 〈◊〉.  P●…ssevinus the jesuit was employed to convert unto the Romish belief, Ivan Uasilich, the Emperor of Russia, and his people of Moscovia. And indeed the Great Duke did listen to his mediation for peace between himself, and Stephen Batour King of Poland, who had then by war a great hand upon the old man: but not a man or women in Moscovy did thereupon embrace the Roman doctrine. And such are commonly the gains which they make in other remote places, if matters be well sifted. Now if it be so, that Priests do go to such countries as you intimat; what should they otherwise do? for to their own native soil many of them dare not return, as being fled thence perhaps for sl●…gitious crimes: other have there no maintenance nor friends & so besides the dàger of the laws, they should be to all men ridiculous & contemptible, who have traveiled so far & brought home with them, I say not livelihood & ability, but no learning or good quality. And in the Seminaries they may no longer stay, but if they should refuse 
g Apol●…. 12  Priesthood, or offer to stay being commanded away, they would be held perjured persons, & with contumely be turned out; & therefore I cannot blame them, if they rather adventure any where upon uncertain hope, them run upon certain danger. If needs they must beg, they think it the more their credit to do it in far countries, than where they are known. And this if they should grumble, as whither they do or no, themselves can best tell, to whom may they complain, or who shall amend aught, since their penurious or hard hearted superiors, ingeminate unto them the vow of obedience, & that is their amends.  
12 But how some of these Priests & jesuits have mortified their affections & lusts, & composed themselves to their graves, may be judged by their gallantness in apparel, their gaming, their striving for place & superiority, their tos-pot●…ing & other such behaviour as hereafter I shall touch. Now let me rather see whither they have renounced all riches & h●…nors or no? That our Seminarians come into England most poor, it is not to be doubted. Yet that some of them here have purls full of gold, as 
h Dec'arat. of popish Impost●…es exam of Sar will.  Dibdale & other, that some spend many 
i Sparing Discor. of jesuits.  hundred pounds by the year, that some ride in their 
k Ibidem.  Coaches up & down the country, is a matter confessed & not to be doubted upon. How many are the cozening & coney-catching tricks, whereby they have drawn out 
l Quod 3 10.  thousands of pounds out of their ghostly children's purses? Is it not avowed that 
m Sparing Discovery.  2200 pounds at one time was by them sent over seas out of England? Nay are not the riches of the jesuits so great, that warning hath been given by one of their own religion, that all christendone had need to look to them, lest they aspire to a 
n Quodli. 9 ubique.  Monarchy here in Europe, as they have done to the government of sapona. And lest this speech may seem to be uttered without all ground, conceive the infinite wealth of that society. It is too well known to those who have lately travailed, that the possessions of the jesuits in some parts of Germany, but especially in Italy & Polonia are incomparably great, some thousands of manors, towns & villages being theirs. What their wealth was in France may be judged by this, that the credible report is, that at their last 
o Quod. 9 7.  expulsion from thence, they lost three millions at the least. In Spain they have what they will almost. But their greatest benefit is, that under the king they have free traffic to the Indies to their inestimable gain. How this may be, you shall hear one of their English-Romanists briefly report. 
p The 2. letter of A. C. fol. 20.  The jesuits in India do more than competent, respect their temporal bo●…te in that spiritual traffic. And, with gold, pearl, spice & such like Indian wares, they every year from thence enrich copiously their society in Europe. If this yet do not satisfy, & you desire to hear more of japona, & that from the mouth of another witness, have it then from a low Countryman reporting the travail of some who went round the world. 
q Additam. None par●…s Americae.  In japonia, of the Portugal, no man hath any authority or power besides the jesuits, who do there exercise mar●…hādising of all matters most ample. And these almost all are Portugese's, who while they were in japonia did inform the greatest part of the nobles & people concerning the popish religion, & when they had persuaded them with diverse dreams, they did so draw them unto their side, that by these they are now esteemed & reverenced as in the place of little Gods. These jesuits also do diligently take heed, that no monk of any other order be received into those lands. So making themselves Lords of all matters & men, they do there exercise most rich & most frequented traffickings. Here then is now the first credible relation that they have won some to their popery; but whither these were wise people or no, to be thus circumvented, other men may judge. In the mean time it is manifest that these Machiavellian & most earthly minded Friars, have not renounced all riches & honours, and as men mortified have composed themselves to their graves. Which being true of these who pretend the highest state of perfection, what may we imagine of Secular Priests, the show of whose sanctity is contemptible in the eyes of these Mounsieurs? This is a taste to you D. Hill of the truth of your asseverations, although I must acquaint you also, that if your Priests should do those external things which you name, that is endanger themselves, and leave earthly commodities, yet this doth not warrant that their labouring is to win men to Christ's faith. No more than theirs was, who 
r Mat 23. 15  compassed sea and land to make a Proselyte, and when he was so made, he was twofold more the child of hell than they themselves. 
s job. 〈◊〉.  Satan himself doth compass the world; but it is not to good purposes. As a 
s 1. Pet. 5. 8.  roaring Lion he walketh about, seeking whom he may devour. The Fox goeth far from his den, and adventureth his life also, if he should be caught, and yet his going is to destroy. The 
t Aug. lib. 〈◊〉. con●… C●…escon Gram.  Circumcellian heretics not for truth but for their fancy, ' parted with all things that this world might yield them, yea with life itself. 
u 1 King. 1●… 2●…. 〈◊〉.  Baal's Prophets did to the uttermost, hazard themselves for Baal. The 
u Eus. Eccl. Hustor. 8. 20  Marcionites had their Martyrs, and so also had the 
x Socr. 4. 27  Arrians, who lost their lives. But it is not what a man suffereth, but the cause wherefore he suffereth, that maketh him acceptable to God.  T. HILL. 
ANd I see also on the other side, that no Protestant ever had so great zeal of his religion, as that he would for spreading abroad the same, forg●… any wor●…ly commodity, either by founding Seminaries, or Colleges in Countries, or by going or sending where any difficulty or danger was, but as one wholly respecting this world, he wa●…oweth in wealth, and pleasures at home, or if by any accident he be compelled, to fly into foreign Countries, he may not travail except his prettye par●…ll goeth with him: but such a one to go simply, and as they say bona fide to convert others was yet never 〈◊〉.  G. ABROT. 
13 You will tell us anon, that the children of this 
y Luk. 16 18  world are wiser in their generation then the children of light. And this we knew before; as also that you are more diligent to do evil, than many of us are to do good. But the Protestants have a vocation, and keep themselves in their watches, where God hath placed every one of them, and do not stir from it, but when as by the godly Magistrate they are employed. They are not assured that to leave their own charge, and lead a Circumcellian life without special appointment is acceptable unto God. Antiochus indeed being stricken by God's hand, is reported to profess that he 
z 2. Ma●…hab 9 17.  would become a ●…ew himself, & go through all the world that was inhabited, and preach the power of God. But we propose not to ourselves the example of Antiochus. But the Apostles did so. And had they not a 
a Matth. 28. 19  commission so to doe●… Yet might they not go till they had that Commission: and sometimes they were restrained by the spirit of the Lord, from 
b Act. 16. 6. 7  such and such places. Yea and the calling of the Apostles is ceased. Do you read that Saint Ambrose, or Saint Austen, or the old fathers in the Primitive Church, did take any such course? And whereas Gregory sent some into England, it was upon a special occasion. 
c Eccle. hist. lib, 1. 23.  Bede saith that Gregory was warned thereunto by an instinct from God. Indeed it is probable, that 
d Cap 26.  Berta wife to King Edilbert then of Kent, had secretly a finger in that business: for she being of the French nation was a Christian woman before, and would not condescend to be married to Edilbert, but on condition that she might without impeachment retain her religion, and a Bishop which she brought with her for that purpose. It may well be supposed that her French friends being near to Italy, or herself might solicit that affair. But whereas you say, that never any of our faith did leave his pleasures at home, & adventure abroad, the Proverb M●…dacom op●…rtet esse memorem, Alyar had need of a good memory hath seized upon you: for in this very Chapter you mention the sending of Ministers abroad, by the advice of john Calvine, which was among the 
e Lerij Navigat in Brasil.  T●…pinambaliij in Brasilia, such a journey every way considered, as never Friar or jesuite undertook a more dangerous, as is evident by the extreme famine endured in their return, besides the vexation and perils sustained there. And if Frenchmen had been planted in 
f Expeditio in kan.  Florida, there had of likelihood gone many more. But there the purpose of many French was to have resided, had not the murtherours and massacring cruelty of the Spaniards hindered it, they contrary to their own word and honour, cutting the throats of all whom they could lay hold upon. Yea & if it had pleased God, to have prospered our English 
g See Hacluits viages  Colonies in Virginia, there would not have been wanting men of the Ministry, to have adventured & spent their lives there: & so it may be said for any other place, where God shall dispose the hearts of our Prince & country, to think fit, that they probably may honour the Almighty. And whereas you speak of charges to advance true Religion you needed to have gone no farther then to your own late Sovereign, who with the assistance of her people's purses, did for the true planting of the service of God, spend more treasure in Ireland alone, & that without any assurance or liklyhood of recompense again (which the Spaniard ever stood upon in his Indieses) than all your late Popes, & Popish Princes have done in sending abroad their Agens. And had it not been God's glory alone, & the honourable mind of a Christian Queen, who desired to bless & not to spill that which was committed unto her, her Highness might with less charge, danger, and trouble, have desolated the country of the ancient inhabitants, and peopled it with English, beginning with the Sea-coastes, and going forward into the Inland, whereof your Catholic Kings of Spain would peradventure have made no bones, as is evident by their proceed in America▪ but a true regard of Christianity, and a mind to deal regally in that as in all other matters, induced her Majesty to waste an inestimable deal of gold and silver, besides the loss of men; and all this to bring that rough and untractable people into the sheepfold of Christ jesus, if possibly that might be. And albeit the times and present occasions were such, that by necessity the expense of her Highness, was rather employed upon Soldiers, than on Seminaries & Colleges, yet the resolution of her as of a most Christian Princess was illustrious that way, when beyond the consultations and advices of all her Graces most noble progenitors, yea beyond the opinion of Stephen Gardiner himself, as L. Chancellor and a Privy councillor, (howsoever as a Bishop he was otherwise minded) she was pleased to grant unto that nation, that at Dubline they should have an University where one College long since was erected, & before this time more might have been but for the wars. And if all this had been done by her majesties charge, yet how small would that have been, in comparison of those masses of treasure, which in warlike service have been within these few years expended.  
14 Your scoff of Pretty Parnel, and many such more we must bear. But if it be true, that never any Protestant went about such a work, as the planting of the faith, how do you know that they would not go without their wives in their company? your tale is tied together with points. But is it such a sin, that men going from their country, even about the Lords business, should take those with them, whom God hath joined as their perpetual yokfelowes, to comfort each other in sickness & in health? It was wont to be that 
h Marc. 10. 9  what God had coupled together, no man s●… separate, Would you have used this speech against 
i 1. Cor. 9 5.  St. Peter, & the brethren of the Lord, & the rest of the Apostles, that they could not go up and down to preach the word, & spread the faith, without their pretty Parnels? And yet you know, or may know if you be not grossly ignorant, that these led women about with them in their ordinary ministration. And is it not more probable that these were wives of their own, then any other women? 
k Libr. de Monogamia.  Tertullian indeed is of opinion that they were not their wives, but ministra, other women to attend than, as to wash their feet, or their clothes; notwithstanding others do otherwise interpret the place. I will not now dispute this since all is one in respect of this present purpose. But how say you unto Aquila, & Priscilla his wife, who first came, together from Rome to 
l Act. 18. 〈◊〉. 18.  Corinth, & then from Corinth to Ephesus, which were pretty journeys if you have any skill in Geography, & this later voyage also was in S. Paul's company, who thought himself not the worse, that he had a virtuous woman to go a long with him. And if you read the s●…rie, this 
m Verse 26.  Priscilla by her knowledge in the scriptures, did further the conversion of Apollo's, to the immediate believing upon Christ. For which respects the company of other women, who are of approved fame, is not unprofitable, when men go about the winning of souls; since they in private and with their own sex, may be potent. And we doubt not but many of them in their places do God very good service, his mercy accepting of their obedience and faith, as well as of that in men; whereof besides a thousand other, this may be one argument, that our blessed Saviour himself, in his ter-sacred and immaculate affection, fancying (as I may say) some more than other, with an extraordinary human kindness, is reported by the Evangelist to have loved in that sort but four, whereof two were men, & two were women: the disciple 
n joh. 13. 23.  whom jesus loved, and jesus 
o Cap. 11. 5  loved Martha, and her sister Mary, and Lazarus. Your scorn therefore against womankind, may be returned upon yourselves, who rather love to commit sin cantè, then in honest marriage to live castè; and thereupon some of you like travellers, do make bold rather where you come, then be at any further trouble, as that 
p Mat. Paris in Henr. 1.  Cardinal of yours did, who in England did all the day in a Synod inveigh against the marriages of Priests, and at night was taken himself in bed with a strumpet. How do your younger & youthfuller fry make bold with their neighbours, when your grave ancient Cardinals do show themselves so carnal? And here I pray you take knowledge, that for a little while I do favour you.  T. HILL. 
AND if by any occasion offered unto such, they go about to plant their Gospel any where, they do it in such a turbulent and 〈◊〉 manner, and 〈◊〉 by Epistles after Saint Paul's use, but by Pistol as Beza did, as every one may see what spirit pricketh them forward.  G. ABBOT. 
15 THat the doctrine of the Gospel should by Satan's servants be reputed turbulent and mutinous, is no news. Some said that they found Saint Paul a 
q Act. 24 5  pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition, among all the jews throughout the world, and yet good Sir, I pray you, do not you believe that accusation against him. And no truer is this slanderous Calumniation against us, who teach all Christian duty to Princes and Magistrates, and that for 
r Rom: 13. 5  conscience sake. But Calvine and Beza, as appeareth by their writings, and divers of our English men, as may be seen to the everlasting infamy of you and yours, by the letters of the Martyrs in Master Foxes great volume, have planted and watered & confirmed the faith, by very learned and godly Epistles, imitating therein not only Saint Paul, but divers other of the Apostles, and Saint Ambrose, and Saint Austen, with many more the greatest lights in the ancient Primitive Church. Their books speak to your shame, & to their own everlasting praise; since as by preaching and verbal exhortation, they showed themselves instant in 
s 2. Tim 4. 2  season and out of season, so by their writings of all sorts, and among other by their Epistles, they omitted no duty, which might appertain to the Ministers of Christ. And this is it, which maketh the Romish Synagogue so much to s●…arle at them. But this word of Epistles, as a flaze of your Rhetoric is here put, but to bring in your tale of pistols, wherewith falsely you do labour to defame M. Beza. Campian telleth us your meaning, when he saith, 
s Ration 8  A notorious cut threat, being full of Beza, shooting off a Pistol secretly did kill that French Noble man the Duke of Guise, being a Prince of admirable virtue: than which fact our world in our age hath seen nothing more deadly, nothing more doleful. The jesuite had quite forgot the Mossacre 
t Commentar: Relig: & Reip: in Gallia: l: 10.  at Paris at Bartholomew-tide 1572. when at the marriage of a king to the daughter & sister of a King, so many thousands of Noble men and meaner persons, assembled thither upon the fidelity of a king, were slain in their beds, or in their own or their friends lodgings. That was it whereof Campian with those words should have spoken. But his malice rather served him, and fit it was for his purpose, falsely to accuse that Reverend man Theodore Beza, that he had persuaded Poltrot to kill the Guise at the siege of Oreleans. We allow not of the deed, but utterly condemn the fact: & there was never learned man of our party, who defended it or excused it. The malefactor also received condign punishment for his labour. Indeed the 
u Ibid. lib. 6. & 7.  Guizes after the death of their father, did publicly give out, that the Admiral and one other noble man had hired Poltrot thereunto, and that Beza had approved the deed; but when the admiral heard of it, he knowing it to be a malicious slander, did by public writing require, that according to the laws of justice, Poltrot who was reported to have said so much in his torture, might be kept alive, that he might come face to face to justify himself: but this was denied, and Poltrot in all haste was executed. But when the rumour still continued, that the Admiral was touchable with the fact, he putteth forth an honourable declaration, & Protestation of his innocency therein, which was so apparently true, that the king at Molune in Bourbon, did by open sentence clear him, and acquit him of that unjust imputation. Now the main fact being avoided, Beza proveth to be innocent; since by his most desperate enemies he was never thought to be more than an accessary, by allowing it at the instance of the Admiral, whereas in truth he spoke not with Poltrot, but was more than an hundred miles of from him. And yet, notwithstanding that all this is as evident as the Sun, good Doctor Hil, do you keep the lie going, and let it not die in your hands.  
16 But if we shall rightly scan who they be, whom an ill spirit in this case pricketh forward, let us remember the practice of the Papacy in this behalf. Was it not the 
u Ibid. li. 10.  younger Guise, as holy a Catholic as his Father, who suborned one to shoot the Admiral with a Pistol, at the cruel Battlemewtide in Paris? And when that wound proved not to be mortal, did not he in person come to his lodging at midnight, & send up cut-throats to murder him? Was it not the Popish crew, (wherein by great probability King Philip himself, and the Duke of Parma also had a finger) who first procured 
x Dinoth. de bell. civil. Belgie. li. 5.  lauregny to shoot the Prince of Orange with a Dag, and some years afterward Balthasar with the like weapon to kill him? If aught could be said for these things, yet what can be answered for the death, of K. 
y Meterran. Hist lib. 5.  Henry the 3. of France, one of your own religion, who was stabbed by the Friar? And this fact was not only liked of by infinite numbers of Papists in France, yea and as it should seem 
z See the Franc. discourse  defended also by public preaching and writing, but it was allowed of by the Pope and his Cardinals: bonfires and processions were made for it at Rome, yea Sixtus Quintus made a solemn public Oration, in gratulation of the good event, 
a De interdicto Regn Franciae. edit. Francosurti. Anno. 1591.  pronouncing that Clement the jacobine who perpetrated that villainy, was worthy not only to be reputed a Martyr, but to be reckoned a Saint. All the Papists in the world name the example of such a deed attempted, or achieved by the Protestant's, yea or that which may come near it by 1000 degrees. And was there not in like sort an intendment of 
b jesuit Catech li. 3. 6.  Barriere, for the slaughtering of the present K. Henry the 4. which was a second time put in practice by 
c Cap. 8.  Chastel a scholar of the jesuits, who assaulted & somewhat hurt the same King? For this cause by an Arrest of the Parliament of Paris, there was made a decree against the jesuits, banishing them out of France, as also before the palace in that Imperial City, a 
d Cap. 20.  Pyramid was erected, which containeth a narration of the same. This Edict was ratified by the highest court of France, which yet notwithstanding consisteth most of Papists: & the force of the Edict standeth yet upright, albeit besides infinite other means, 
e La Saint Messe declare. In praefat. ad Regem.  Richeome the jesuit hath made such a flattering & clawing petition, to the king in behalf of his Society, & hath to win her favour also, 
f Tableaux Sacrez des figures mystiques.  presented & dedicated a brave baby book of the Mass, to the Q. Mary de Medici's now Regnant, that her Highness withal honourable favour would second their request. Can English men forget that, which in the name of his holiness, was by the 
g Differ between christian subject. D. Bilson part. 3  Cardinal of Como signified to D. Parry by letter; that to kill our late Sovereign, a woman & a Princes, was not only lawful, but had his merit in heaven? & can it be out of memory that 
h Meterran lib. 13.  Babington & the rest of the resolute Gentlemen should violently have slain her, but that god did divert it, & her Honorab. Counsel did discover it? & who was the chief leader here but 
i Answer to the Manifestat. cap. 3.  Ballard a Priest: & Recusants must be the Actors. You know we could tell you of more English thus Italionated, and so grown according to the Proverb, Devils incarnated, who have attempted other such lewdenesses. All this while then you have great reason to talk of Beza his pistols, a matter wherein is no ground of truth, when as some of your 
k La verity defend vide 〈◊〉. disc.  books do directly tend that way, and many of the undoubted actions of divers of your side, do testify that you and not we, are the only Prince-murtherers, and traitorous King-assaulters that be or ever were in the world: which I would have understood of the Jesuited faction. The Lord deliver our present Sovereign from you, as frequently & in miraculous manner, he preserved his late gracious hand-maiden Elizabeth.  T. HILL. 
NEither do they take any other course in their proceed, but to destroy States & kingdoms, & to displace lawful Monarchies and Magistrates, as the lowe-Countries, Germany and Scotland can sufficiently witness, and ever then beginning is of pride and envy as Luther's was: or by abusing themselves in their former estate, as Sir john Calvine did, or by yielding themselves slaves to ambition as they did in Scotland, or by following Lust and Lechery, or of some such like brutish occasion, and never indeed upon any ground, using their religion only as a serveturne, when other means fail to atcheeve their unlawful desires.  G. ABBOT. 
17 IN this Chapter you continue so like yourself, that a man should be beholding to you, if you would speak but one true word. The Reader perhaps will wonder that I take such pains with you, to lay you so plainly open: but if I could tell how, I would purge you of that 
l Ps. 140 3.  poison of Adders, which is under your lips. At least I would let both your friends & strangers see, what a man of your word you are. But it is fit that Papists should be such as write they care not what. Good Sir I pray you what State or kingdom hath been overthrown by us? you may see if you please, that France hath been kept up by the aid of England, the German Princes and Swissers: that when King 
m Meterran. Histor: l: 14:  Henry the 3. was like to be beaten out of his king ●…ome, by the Guizes Barricadoes at Paris, & by the vile combination of the unholy League, the King them of Navarre, & the Protestant's were the only men, to whom safely he might fly for secure. And if the King that now is would declare his own mind, he must acknowledge that the safety of his Realm & Person, doth not least of all depend on the fidelity, circumspection & vigilancy of h●…s Hugvenots. The kingdom of Denmark was never so potent, nor so orderly governed, as it is at this day, since religion there flourished. Since the Gospel hath had free course here, England may truly be said for felicity & all human happiness, to be the peerless paragon of the whole world. At the moderation of superiors; at the obedience of inferiors; that the people every way are found so 
n jud. 5. 〈◊〉. 9  willing, stand amazed all you fugitives, & ill-willers to your country. And especially, that when you though that at the death of your late Prince, you should have had your long ex pected lubilee, & all this ●…and should have been as the field 〈◊〉 blood, stand aghast to hear how with uniformity of heart & 〈◊〉▪ all the good subjects of this land did conjoin to expr●… 〈◊〉 joy, that they might have such a Lord & Governo●…r, as now by cod's mercy they enjoy. They were not glad that they we●… qu●…t of one, that so they might live in an Anarchy or tumultuous confused State, but it was their unspeakable comfort, that since the blessed God had taken unto him, her who was their most gracious Lady, he had another in store, whom they might serve in peace, & follow in war, & from the bottom of their hearts pray for in both. So hath the word of God seasoned the hearts of old & young among v●…, with true subjection & Christian obsequiousness to the higher power. Now for Germany, when was it in the electors & other Princes more flourishing, than of late? When were the governments of the Palgrave, Duke of Saxony, Laurgrave of Hasse, & others of the religion, more in riches or settled tranquillity than now? And if the Empire itself be weakened & the strength thereof be pulled on the knees that is not the fault of the Gospel there professed: for that error was long since run into, by 
o Ha●…lan. Histo●…. l. 15.  Charles King of Bohemia and Emperor, who to get the Empire to his son, released to the electors and Princes, the tributes & other revenues Imperial: And when they had once tasted the sweetness thereof, they would never part with it again. Scotland was never more prosperous, in deeper peace, & surer traffic them it is at this day. And if heretofore there have been any tumultuous, it was the fault of some humorous persons, and not of Religion, as may appear by the comparing of that time with this, when nevertheless now the same doctrine is there professed. The Cantons of Suitzerland & the Protestants about them, do all well maintain their States & governments: And the United Provinces do make a pretty shift to keep that which they had: & it wholly seemeth to be in such a complete order, that the King of Spain knoweth not well what to make of it. Then certainly all States and kingdoms be not quite destroyed by us, but those countries which harbour the Gospel, live in as good reputation as other their poor neighbours do by them.  
18 But somewhat else there is in it. The low Countries have shoken of the yoke of the Spaniards service. Some of them indeed have, but so many of their 
p Apolog. Prin●…p. Aur●…. Vid●…●…ter. lib 1 & Dino●…h lib. 1.  Apologies and other Defences published to the Christian world, show that it was not hastily & unadvisedly done. They have let it be understood, that the Duke of Burgundy's government over them, was not so absolute as the power of other confining Princes is over their Subjects. That there is a very great reciprocal duty of his part toward them, even by the Positive Orders of their country. That their first submission of themselves to their Dukes then being French, and afterward to the house of Austria, was ever on that condition sworn unto, that the●… Privileges should be kept. Among them those which are the liberties of Brabant, are the chief. Now as these Hollanders say for themselves, when King Philip the 2. took that harsh counsel, to govern them by Strangers, to overrun them by his Spaniards, to bring in the Inquisition, to behead their Nobles, & burn up their people, to erect new Bishoprics for a bloody purpose, & in a word without ●…bling or cōsul●…g the Stats, to alter by the sword the whole face of those Provinces, they sent oft to the Court in Spain, they used ●…nfinite supplications which would not be heard, intercessions of neighbour Princes, many pauses and sta●…es & hopes, & at last being driven by extreme necessity they proceeded farther, even proclaiming that he had lost the Interest which formerly he had over them. Nothing made them so averse, as their understanding by a 
q Meterr: lib: 2:  letter intercepted, that there was a project in the King, to use divers of their Nobles well at first▪ and afterward to destroy them. This letter was written from Fran●…cus Alava Ambassador for the K. in France, to the Lady Governs the Duchess of Parma. But when all this is said, your Papists were every way Actors in this, as far as any other: they did join with the rest, and were most forward for the maintenance of their Privileges. And this so far appeared, that they jointly would have submitted all to 
r Meter: l: 12.  Henry the 3. of France, a Prince of the Romish religion, which in very deed formerly they had done to 
s Lib: 10:  Mounsieur the Duke of Alencon, choosing him to be their Duke of Brabant, when he gave no other signification, but in his faith to be Popish. Yea the case of these Low-country-men seemed to men of all sorts so just & reasonable, that first 
s Lib: 8:  Mathias, and afterward 
t Libr: 17:  Ernestus Archdukes both of Austria, both kinsmen & of blood to King Philip, & both of the Roman faith did come personally into those parts, and were Governors of the forces of those united Provinces, which in the eyes of every indifferent man doth leave a strong impression, that the dealing of the Spaniard was more discommendable toward than, than theirs was toward him. And I do verily believe, that if matters were now fresh to begin, the King Catholic who now is, & his very wise & sage council, would be well advised, before that they would undertake any courses so apparently offensive to the whole body of that people. Notwithstanding I do leave this whole question of the Low-countrieses, to the understanding & consideration of the wise, & to that which time shall farther discover. The rising of the 
u Sleidan: Comment: Lib: 4: & 5:  Commons in Germany, was not caused by Religion; for those of greatest fame who professed the religion, as Luther namely, did dissuade them from it, and wrote against them: but it was such a mutiny as sometimes Subjects make in other Nations, and the like whereof of late the old 
u Peda: de historias.  King of Spain had in Arragon, and so had England in the days of King Richard the second by jacke Straw, Wat Tiler and other such noble companions; and another such in the reign of King Edward the sixth. Of such insurrections what opinion we have, may partly be seen by that treatise of Sir john Cheek, The true subject to the Rebel, & partly by our preachings & writings since. We dislike it, we detest it, we condemn it, we pronounce it to be Rebellion. In the stirs which were in Scotland there is no doubt but there were many errour●… on both sides. If the ambition of some, whither in Parliament or otherwise, or the disorderly tumult of some multitudes did sway to far, let them be are their own blame. But this did not overthrow the kingdom: no we know that it standeth to this day in great glory, albeit perhaps that be not wholly to be ascribed unto them, who in their changes did as much look to seeming civil policy, as to the veritable & approovable rules of religion. We do not hold it to be the power or pleasure of the Subjects, to depose their lawful & obsolute Princes. By God 
x Prov. 8. 15.  Kings do reign: he it is who setteth them up, & he it is who must pull them down. If they grow to be tyrants, yet as tempests, inundations and other plagues sent from above, they are to be endured. The more wicked a body was Rob. Persons, who in his book of 
y Doleman Lib. 1.  Succession would subject the royal throne to the vulgars' discretion, of whom I say no more in that point, since a 
z H●…ywar. answ. to Dole:  learned man hath tendered an answer to those disputations. Only pretty it it to see how the author excuseth himself, for using another man's name in that work. He calleth himself Doleman, as alluding to that 
a ●…sa 53. 3.  Uir 
b Manifest: cap. 4.  dolorum mentioned by the Prophet. So Dole shall be as Latin, and man shall be as English, a very handsome conjunction. So that shall by Persons be arrogated, to himself a wicked miscreant, which is peculiarly spoken of Christ the blessed son of God. So we must believe him, that he did not know that there was any Priest whose name was Doleman. What will not this man say or un-say for his advantage? And how gross doth he judge all the world to be, when he would flap the Readers in the mouth, with such absurd and senseless tales as this is. If he will needs ●…ve vir dolorum to intimate him, let him take it from dolus, doli, and not from dolour doloris, and so he may rightly be termed, vir dolorum, or dolosus a deceitful man, which appellation he rightly did sit to himself.  
19 When you have alleged these examples of different kinds and different judgements, you little remember what Papists do in such cases, When after the conference at Poissy, the 
c An. 8561. Comment. Relig. & Reip. in Gall. Lib. 3:  Edict of january had (upon some conditions and restraint in circumstances) permitted liberty of religion in France, did not the old Duke of Guise being then combined with the Constable and the Marshal of Saint Andrew's (without ground or title, but only to advance the Popish cause) with 
d Lib. 4.  drawn swords set upon the Protestants assembled at a Sermon at Vassy, and slew many of them, which afterward cast all France into a civil war? In the time of King Henry the 8. the 
e Io Fox & Holinsh in 〈◊〉 Henr. 8.  Yorkshire and Lincolnshire men being incited thereunto by the Popish Priests, did rise up in arms to recover, or retain their Romish superstitions. What was the cause of the last 
f An. 1569.  insurrection in the North, but to expel the Religion now established? It is confessed by him who 
g In Concer. ta●…. Eccles. Catholic. in Anglia.  wrote the life of Thomas Earl of Northumberland, that he rose only in the Pseudo-Catholike cause, being animated thereunto by the Pope's Bull of Excommunication, and therefore he is there reputed a Martyr, and so called, whereas all men know that he died for open Rebellion. And if in this case the whole world otherwise should be silent, yet the insurrection of the Irish in those late years, for and in behalf of Popery, as also the coming thither of so many Priests, and their stickling in that business, besides the aid 〈◊〉 nomine sent in by the Spanish King, would sufficiently demonstrate it. So when that you said that this was the manner of the Protestants proceedings, to plant their Gospel in turbulent sort, you should have said Papists, and then you had spoken truly. The rest which you here add, containeth vain words, and that which is nothing material. That which first gave light to Luther, was the horrible profanation of the merits of Christ's blood, by setting pardons at sale, and the horror of his conscience to see Religion in that sort to be abused, for gain to Leo the tenth and his kindred. And against whom should he be proud or envious? Against 
h Sleidan. lib. 13.  Tecelius for sooth and ignorant and impudent Friar, who gave such immoderate commendations of his Indulgences, as that if a man had deflowered the Virgin Marie, and begotten her with child, yet for money he could pardon it. Was this man to be envied? or rather to be pitied? or rather to be punished? or rather to be crucified with some irregular torture? It is a most poor and base slander, to report that Luther was offended, because the sale of the Indulgences was permitted to the other, and not to him. He who looketh upon the 
i Centu. 16. An. 1517.  95. Propositions, which even upon the instant he propounded to be disputed upon, in the Schools at Wittemberge against Pardons, cannot but see that he had song disliked the usage of that merchandise, and all the circumstances belonging thereunto. He may easily discern that his very heart & soul was moved against the matter, & not against Persons only. The abuse of those Indulgences was so fowl, that 
k Hist. lib. 13  Francis Guicciardine a Papist himself doth much dislike it. How Calvin did ill order his life, neither you nor any of your crew can truly report. I know you have a gross slander spread of him by a lewd companion, contrary to all show of verity, which when you 
l See the 5. Reason.  farther touch, you shall have farther answered. Of whom you speak in Scotland, you cannot tell yourself: and therefore I know not for whom to answer. If any being stirred by ambition did amiss, we hold it a fault as well as you do: but if any did well, and it be but your conceit that he did it for vainglory, the error is yours for judging so rashly. As for lust, lechery and brutish behaviour, do not you suspect, but I shall largely prove them to be rather in your men then in us. In the mean while concerning those who have been spreaders of our Religion, it is as much when they are charged with evil things, that 
m Quintil. Lib 5. 12.  Aemilius Scaurus negat as that Quintius Uarius ait, that one doth deny, as that another doth affirm. And for the ground on which they stood, it was and is such, that none of you can shake it, no nor the 
n Mat 16. 18  gates of hell any way prevail against it. It is built upon the 
o Cap 7. 25  rock, and therefore fret you, and rage's you while you will, it cannot be overthrown. And whereas you say, that they use their religion but for a serue-turne, to compass evil practices, you are foully besides the mark. For they questionless were in earnest, & would not otherwise have left country and friends, and all earthly preferment for their conscience sake, yea their very hues, as thousands of them have done, within these hundred or two hundred years. Yea many of great judgement have come from you, as he whom D. 
p Calvino-Turcism. li. 1. 5.  Gifford calleth Cardinal Vergerius, but indeed was but like to have been Cardinal, for being without a cause somewhat suspected of Lutheranism, he to 
q Slcid. l. 21  purge himself thereof taketh pen in hand to write against Luther; where labouring about the point of justification, he had his eyes opened to behold the verity, and embraced true Religion, although he lost his Cardinality for his labour. There might many other be named, who by choosing want and imprisonment, and all worldly miseries, for the doctrine which we profess, did show that what they did, was to serve no earthly turn, but to save their souls, and in that they were in very good earnest. These are idle objections without matter or authority.  T. HILL. 
IT is plain therefore in my judgement, that the Catholics are they, who ever fished simply and sincerely with Saint Peter's net, and therein have inclased miraculous multitudes of fishes, and that the Protestants by their extraordinary and late angling have caught ●…ore, but such as were in a better and more sound manner taken before. And although Freculphus writeth that the Arrian heretics converted the whole nation 
In Chron: tom. 2 lib. 4. cap. 20. Socrat. li. 4: cap. 27. Sozom. l 6. cap. 37. Theod. l. 4. cap. vlt.  of the Goths from Paganism to the faith, in the time of Ualens the Emperor: yet it appeareth by Socrates, Sozomenus & Theodoretus, that the greatest part of those Goths were Catholic Christian, before, & afterward seduced by the Arrians: for Heretics cannot possibly convert any to such faith, as may make the converted better than they were before.  G. ABBOT. 
When you say It is plain in your judgement, it is the wisest word that you wrote a great while: for your judgement is a very weak one, as by that which is gone before, & that which followeth after, hath and will appear. If Catholics be they who fish with Saint Peter's net, what is that to you, who are not the one, and do not the other? You are heretics, fallen from the sincerity of Christ's faith to human fables, and your fishing is not like Saint Peter to 
r Luk: 5: 101  catch men to GOD, but to his Arche-enemye at Rome. And what store you have taken with your Babylonish baits, will in your next Reason appear. Now whither the Protestants have caught any or none, let whole Christendom judge: nay the power and revenue of your Pope so much diminished, will speak if all be silent. But whither they were in better case before, or no, Christ shall pronounce at the day of the general resurrection, and his word in the mean time shall determine. They who have felt the servile yoke of your superstitions and inventions, and now do truly taste the sweet promises of the Gospel, will not leave their passage to Canaan, and turn back into your Egypt, to gain all the world by the bargain. We can never yield sufficient praises unto God, who of his mercy hath freely vouchsafed us that favour, which he hath not afforded to many other. And we desire to stand 
s Galat. 5. 1.  fast in the liberty, wherewith Christ hath made us free. Hear you are a happy man that you chanced to hit upon the story of the Arrians, for now you cite us something, whereas for three whole leaves together, we have had neither text of Scripture, nor authority of any divine or human writer●…, but only your bare word, and that is worth but a little. Well, Freculphus saith that the Arrians converted the whole Nation of the Goths, in the days of the Emperor Valens, from paganism to the faith. But there be three Ecclesiastical historiens who seem to cross that. Let us hear them speak. 
s Socr. 4. 27  Socrates saith, that under Valens, or in his time many of the Goths received the Christian faith, and he addeth that to please the Emperor, they addicted themselves to the Arrian sect. Here then there is nothing which hindereth, but that many of them might be new converted at the very first by those heretics. 
t Theod. 4: 32.  Theodoret indeed hath it, that being formerly converted to Christ, and believing aright, yet when they were enforced to seek friendship at the hand of Valens, by the instigation of Eudoxius a great Arrian near about him, they were swayed by the Emperor to entertain the Arrian heresy. And ulphilas their own Bishop was a main forwarder thereof. 〈◊〉 Sozomen for the most part accordeth 
〈◊〉 So●…. 6: 37.  with this, that is to say, that ulphilas who before had been a means to bring them to the Christian faith, was afterward won over to be an Arrian, and by his incitement, as also to satisfy Valens, the Goths became of that belief.  
21 But the error whereinto these writers did run, partly by living so far of, and partly for lack of distinct knowledge, how many diverse people of the Goths there were, whom they, (especially the two later writers Theodoret and Sozomen) do confounded and put together, is explicated by jornandes, who of purpose writeth a 
u jornandes de rebus Geticis.  story of the Goths, and lived among them now more than a thousand years agone, even under the Emperor justian, about the year of Christ 530. He than relateth it thus. That there was a people called Ostrogothes, & another termed Vese-Gothes, dwelling not far each from other, & the one of them in ancient time descended from the other. The Ostrogothes had formerly received the faith, but being beaten and pitifully killed by the Huns, a rude nation and not heard of before, breaking in upon them, the Uese-Gothes then frighted by the example of their neighbours, lest the Huns should overrun them also, agreed to fly unto the Romans for aid; and the more to persuade Valens to relieve them, they being infidels formerly, desired him to send some teachers among them, which might instruct them in the Christian saith. Valens sendeth them Arrian preachers, who taught them heretically to believe in Christ. These Ueses Goths thus converted, being outrageously abused by some of the emperors people, took up weapons against the Romans; which when Valens understood, he goeth with an army against them. Losing the field he flieth, and being glad to betake him to a Cottage, he was so pursued by those Goths, that they set the house on fire, and burned both it, and him in it. By the judgement of God saith 
x Ibidem.  jornandes, that he should be burnt with fire by them, whom seeking the true faith, he had turned aside to perfidiousness, and had writhed aside the fire of charity to the fire of hell. The Vese Goths then being so great a nation, were by the Arrians first converted, or perverted to believe falsely on Christ. And this is plain also by Orosius, albeit he use the name Goths in general, and without any distinction. The Goths saith 
y Oros. li. 7. 33.  he had by their legates humbly entreated, that Bishops might be sent unto them, by whom they might learn the rule of the Christian Faith. Valent the Emperor with deadly pravity did send teachers of the Arrian sect. The Goths held the instruction of the first faith which they received. Ualens had before the rule of the Catholic faith; but leaving it, he did entangle himself with the perverse opinion of the Arrians. Therefore by the just judgement of God they burned him alive, who by reason of him, when they are dead, are to burn by the fault of their error. And that is the truth your own conscience D. H●…st telleth you, which is manifest by the mincing of your words, the greatest part of those Goths were Catholic Christians before. Not all, but the greatest part. Therefore some, which is in truth the whole Nation of the Ueses Goths, were first converted to Christianity by Arrian Heretics. And so your own Proposition that Heretics cannot convert Infidels, is made void by your own example. Now whereas you say, that such turning is not to make the converted better than they were before, we must confess that if you speak of such as be Heretics indeed, and not those whom you only call Heretics, being Gods good servants, that the gain them is but this, that formerly they knew not Christ at all, and now they know him in some sort, although it be not so rightly as they should. If this be to be accounted but a little, than your Indian Converts of whom you boast, gain but a little by you, for you mingle to their hands the doctrine of the Gospel, with many pollutions of vile Idolatry, & most horrible superstition, like to that of the old Heathens.  T. HILL. 
FOR that they having indeed the Scripture in some sort, yet have not the true sense thereof, which properly is the sword of the spirit, and the words are rather the scabbard in which the sword is sheathed. And therefore they fight only with the scabbard without the sword, cannot wound the hearts of Infidels, And no marvel though they perverte Catholics, for that men are prove to liberty, and to looseness of life, which by such doctrine is permitted. So that they are indeed most aptly by Saint Augustine likened unto Partridges which gather together 
Libr: 13: cótr: Faust▪ cap. 12.  young●…ones which they begot not: whereas contrariwise the Holy Church is a most fertile Dove which continually bringeth forth new Pigeons.  G. ABBOT. 
22 Heretics you say have the Scriptures in some sort. Certainly many of them have the words without any difference from the Orthodox. For whereas many of them sprung up in the Greek Church, they had for the Old Testament the Septuagint in Greek, & the New Testament word for word, in that language wherein it was written. But they want the sense thereof, which is the sword of the Spirit: for the words are but the scabbard, and the scabbard cannot wound the hearts of the Infidels. What mischief with the letter of the text, and their own perverse interpretation. Heretics may do to them, who were formerly unbelievers, may be gathered by that of the Arrians last named, by the Pelagians, by the Donatists and many other. But those have not the true sense. What is that to us, unless you can prove that we also want it, which M. 
z Ration. 〈◊〉.  Campian in kindness would threape upon us. There is not in the world, any fit means to come to the right sense of Scripture, which our men do not frequent. They seek into the Original tongues, wherein the book of God was written. They confer translations of all sorts: they lay one text with another, & expound the harder by that which is less difficult: they compare circumstances of Antecedents and Consequents: they look to the Analogy of of faith prescribed in the Creed of the Apostles. They search what the first Counsels did establish: they seek what was the opinions of the Father's concerning texts in question, and refuse not therein to cope with you about the highest points, as the Primacy of your Pope, Transubstantiation or any other whatsoever. Yea they look over the interpretations of your writers, to know if any thing there occur worthy observation: they confer one learned man with another: they pray to the blessed. Trinity to open and lighten their understanding, and in a word they omit no means, which either Saint 
a De doctr: Chriist l. 3: 4  Augustine or any other good writer, doth or can prescribe unto them. Only here they lay a straw, that they are not persuaded, that the Bishop of Rome hath all knowledge & judgement so in 
b Vide Platin, in Paulo: 22  Scrinio Pectoris, that by his final sentence all may be resolved, no not that he with the 
c Bellar. de veth. Dei li. 3. 3.  Council which he shall like to call, is the only determiner of the true meaning of all controversed passages. The Poes' all of them are men, and therefore may be deceived; many of them are ignorant men, in comparison of any great Clerk-ship, and many of them have entertained unsound opinions, as Liberius and Honorius, and diverse Counsels have grossly erred, as that second Synod of Nice, and therefore blame us not, if we pin not our salvation, upon such weak or partial men's interpretations.  
23 When you report that Heretics pervert catholics, by your own second Reason before handled, you must mean Papists by your Catholics, or no body, and then you are a right good Proctor to speak in their cause. Their matter was bad enough before, and in the telling you make it worse. Your Catholic men (for your words can touch no other) are prove you say to liberty and looseness of life. Would you have a fee for this pleading? We do not doubt but many of them are very licentious, great breakers of the Sabaoth, swearers and blasphemers, and much inclined to other viciousness, whereof if a man would see the spectacle of all spectacles, let him but go to Rome. And who would forbear this lasciviousness, when a pardon from a Pope, and absolution from a Priest, can make all as clear as it had never been? But we on the other side teach our people, that these your peccatill●… do offend Almighty God, and that they, yea every 
d Mat. 12. 36  idle word must be reckoned for, and our Church discipline doth bring notorious transgressors to the censure of excommunication, and open penance for their crimes. They who have turned unto us, are some of the best and gravest of your sect, and those which be most virtuous of life, whereas contrariwise, many such as among us have been wanton & toyish people, or deeply touched with suspicion of lubricity, have been observed to retire themselves to your shores, as being the fittest harbour for such rotten vessels. It were an easy thing to name many, who leading lives as they do, a man rightly may say of them, They are fit to be Papists. We do not envy you such persons, although we could wish that even such would come to the truth, and not amend their former vice with future idolatry. But while you receive such, as have had education otherwise, (howsoever it hath been neglected by them) you are rather the Partridges, of whom Saint Austen by remembrance of the words of the Prophet 
e jer. 17. 11.  jeremy doth speak, such Partridges as gather the young which you brought not forth, as your Seminaries do declare. But God be praised for it, some of them do serve you, as Saint 
f He●…mer. lib. 63.  Ambrose reporteth that the Partridge is served. For whereas one Partridge doth steal away the eggs of another Partridge, and hacheth them, if the opinion of that learned Author be true, diverse of the 
g Epist. lib. 7. 48.  young being hatched, when they afterward heat the voice of their own and natural dams in the field, leave their stepmother, and come again to her, to whom by original right they belonged. So many of your infection after true grace imparted from above, do return from your Seminaries, and adjoin themselves sincerely and laboriously to the Church of England. They are bound to bless God who delivereth them in such sort, even as 
h jon. 2. 10.  jonah was freed out of the whales belly. They are come out, not of the Dove-house, which fertilely bringeth forth Pigeons, but from Babylon, where 
i Is. 13. 21.  Z●… and O●… be, and Ostriches & Dragons. For as the old be there, so are the most part of the young. Malicorvimal●…●…vum. A bad crow, a bad egg. And now telling you, that a great part of this your fourth Reason, is taken out of M. bristol five and twentieth Motive, I let you go play you, though but for a turn or two.  
24 But to come to the Reader, whereas here the term of Heretics is so oft used against us, we briefly answer with Saint Gregory, 
k Moral. lib. 10. 16 ex Exod. 8. 26.  That is service unto God, which to the Egyptians was ●…nation. And whereas among so many other foolish ones, that is made a reason, why the Popish religion should be truth, saving M. Doctors unpointed and vnconcluding discourse, what can there by sound argument be enforced thereupon? What shallbe the ground that must be stood on? For cannot Heretics pervert? The Apostles have told us, that their 
l 2 Tim. 2. 17  words fret as a Canker, that 
m Cap. 3. 6.  they creep into houses, yea that 
n 2. Pet. 2. 2.  many shall follow their da●…able ways. And you heard before what the Arrians did, Or is it not unto truth? Why, as touching this disputation, that is the main question between the Romanists & us. And to build upon that, is but Petiti●… prin●…: to se●…ke to have that granted, which is mainly and especially denied. We do not yield that any of them, winning their Converts to the subjection of the Papacy, do bring them to Christ; but rather to Antichrist. Or is it a necessary concomitant of verity in doctrine, that such as have 〈◊〉 among them, should be bound to convert Nations to the faith? Then to say nothing of the jewish Church, which had the word appropriated to it alone, for so long a time, what shall we think of France and England and Ireland, and many other provinces of Europe, which for a thousand years together, are not known to have converted any one country to Christ: but have had enough, and perhaps too much to do, to keep themselves in the integrity of piety. And yet our Pseudo-Catholiks make no doubt, but that all that while they had the right belief. These things do manifest the fickleness and unstaidness of th●… foundation he●… laid. But if to tur●… men to Christ be so necessary 〈◊〉 duty, what will they say to such a strange bringing home, of so many kingdoms and regions of Europe, within these hundred years, and that by a few at first, and those weak ones, when Satan, and the Bishop of Rome, and many potent Princes confederated with him, did leave no means unsought, to stifle Truth as in the cradle? When the sword hath not been spared, the fire hath not been forborn: when their mighty men have strove, their learned men have written; there have been wanting no libels, no slanders, no defamations, yea no rebellion and treason, and massacting and poisonful attempts, and yet nevertheless Truth standeth upright. You talk of conversion: but all the lovers and well-willers of the whore of Babylon, may and do stand amazed, and gaze & wonder at the ruin of their kingdom, by so many millions going from them. And we trust in jesus Christ, the conserver of the faithful, that in peace, in war, in all things that can come, this Ark of No shall swim in safety: float, being beaten upon with many billows, but yet evermore be preserved. God hath not in his mercy given so much light, that it should be extinguished, or the glory of it much dimmed before his sons appearance, With the breath of his month he hath 
〈◊〉. Thess. 2. 〈◊〉:  ken and blasted that man of sin, and it now remaineth, that he should be utterly abolished at Christ's coming. Gaze therefore you Romanists till your eyes and hearts do ache, to see the ●…ine and confusion of the Gospel; and yet as we trust in Almighty God, you shall never have your purpose.   

THE FIFTH REASON. Largeness of Dominion, through the multitude of Believers.  T. HILL. 
THE Church which the M●…ssias w●… to plant, must be (〈◊〉 is aforesaid) dispersed through all nations and kingdoms, 〈◊〉 the Holy Pro●…ts ●…st pl●…ly foreshowed, and namely the Royal Prophet speaking of the Apostles and Preachers, which should succeed them, saith Their sound went forth into all parts of the 
Psal. 18.  Earth, and their words unto the ends of the circle of the earth. And ●…st ●…festly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…sse of Christian domi●… in th●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ps●…. And S. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 beasts, and the f●…e ●…d twenty El●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before the L●…be ●…ging thus: Thou art worthy Lord to take the book, and to open the seals thereof, 
Apoc. c. 5:  for thou hast been slain, and hast redeemed us to God in thy blood, out of every Tribe and people, & Language and Nation. and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 her pl●… After these things saith he, I saw a great company, which no man 〈◊〉 able to number, of all Nations & Tribes, and Peoples and Tongues. 
Cap. 7.   G. ABBOT. 
IT was long since said, that whereas our blessed 〈◊〉 Saviour which he was taken up to an exceeding high mountain, and showed all the kingdoms 
Math: 4: 8:  of the world, and the glory of them, did refuse that offer of Satan, All these will I give thee, if th●… wilt fall down & worship me, the Pope coming long after, & hearing that such a liberal proffer was made, took the Devil at his word, & in hope of such a wide extended dominion, did fall down and adore him. You come in this place to plead for your Grand-maister the Bishop of Rome, by the validity of this Donation: but forgetting that he who first mentioned the match, is the 〈◊〉 father of lies, & so consequently may promise that, which is not in him to 
johan. 8. 44.  perform, you gladly would challenge the completing of the bargain, that your master under Satan may have so large a kingdom. And that you may the better prove it; as that cunning deceiver alleged & mis-alleaged the 
c Luk. 4: 10:  Scripture itself, so you do to your Auditors; yea so strictly you do follow him, that whereas he cited what he had to say, out of a Psal. of David, you also begin in that sort, labouring to evict a false Conclusion, from a right & true Proposition. That the Church of the Messias, must be throughout all Nations, David you say foretelleth, & you cite us for that purpose a verse of the 18. Psal. as you read it after the Septuagint, of the 19 as we more truly account it out of the Hebrew. 
d Psal: 19 4:  Th●… 〈◊〉 is gone forth through all the earth, & their words into the ●…ds of the world, which sentence whosoever consulteth that text, shall see properly & originally to mean the course of the heavens, which being in continual motion, & being whirled about the Cente●… the earth, do testify to all nations that there is a supreme power guiding & governing the whole world. And this doctrine, to wit, that from the ordering of the Creatures, the being of a God may be collected, S. Paul doth also teach. But that saying of David, the same 
e Cap: 10. 18  Apostle as 
f Rom 1. 20.  you suppose, extendeth farther to the doctrine of the Apostles & Preachers. Verily the words also cited by S. Paul, do ca●… the same sense for the Creatures & no otherwise, if you naturally & literally do take them: & then I may truly say that you cannot 
g Bellar de verb. Dei lib: 3. cap: 3  invincibly & demonstratively, infer that out of them which you desire. Notwithstanding because S. Paul!, per spiritum Apostolicum, by the Apostolic spirit which was in him, & which is not to be found but in the compilers of the New Testament, might add & alter, & explicate & apply places of the old Testament, to that which the words did not literally carry at the first: & because our Saviour Christ himself did so, being full of that spirit which spoke by the Prophets: & because also some of the old 〈◊〉 fathers alluding hereunto, have not properly but by allusion, referred this 
Chrysost: in Mat: 24●… August: Epist, 80.  Scripture to the preaching of the Apostles, we will not stand with you, but accept it for the generality, as you here would have it, & as it is to some such purpose formerly alleged by me. It is therefore condescended unto, that immediately almost after Christ's ascension, the Gospel was divulged East & West, & North & South, in very many countries; but whither in every particular Nation under heaven we dare not say, since all is in the Scripture taken for a great part, as 
h Math: 3: 5:  then went out to john, Jerusalem & allud●…, & all the region round about jordon, which is to say, very many inhabitants of those places, and they persons of all qualities. And elsewhere 
i Luk. 2: 1:  all the world being a most general speech, yet is so restrained, that it must imply no more, than so much thereof as was subject to the Romans. Which was much at that time, but far from the whole earth. It is also truth, that in another Psalm, the Royal Prophet under salomon's person who was a figure of Christ, doth foretell that the 
k Psam: 72: 10: 11:  Kings of Th●… fit & of the He●… shall bring presents, the Kings of Sheba & Seba shall bring gifts, ●…ea all Kings shall worship him, all nations shall serve him, intending the Messias. But will any man so take this according to the letter, that there should never be King, not Agrippa, not Domitian, not Sapores, but should be Christians, & all nations at all times should entertain the faith? This extent must be so considered, that at one time or another, before the day of judgement, Christ jesus should be preached, in some part of all ●…uine regions, & here and there Kings and Queen's which God should be pleased to call them, should submit their sceptres unto the Lord of heaven. But you might well perceive that these things are spoken by an An●… he sit, between the lewish Church, which was restrained within the compass of one land, and so continued for many ages; and the Church under the New Testament, which should at one time or another, be variously diffused through all general places of the world. And what else do those two texts out of the Revelation insinuate unto us, but that Christians should be picked from many nations & people, far otherwise than while the lewish Synagogue did flourish: but you will not I trust infer, that all nations at all times, or all people of all Nations, should belong to the true sheepfold; but there may be ebbs and flows; the Church in the 
l Apoc. 12. 6.  wilderness at the time appointed, 
m 2. Thes. 〈◊〉; 3.  Apostasy & revolting; 
n Luk. 18: 8:  faith (cant to be found among men, since there is nothing foretold by the Spirit of God, but must have his accomplishment: And therefore since we are warned of both, there must be an age of paucity, as well as of plenty; a waning of the Moon, as well as a full or waxing. But what urge you hereupon?  T. HILL. 
THese things with many such like on Holy writ are no wise verified in ●…y Relegion under Heaven, but only to the Roman Catholic Church, for that 〈◊〉 but it (as every man knoweth) hath had any large s●…pe to account upon in any age. And it hath been for these thousand years at the ●…east throughout both the Hemispheres, in such fort that the S●…nne stretcheth not his b●…s further than it doth and hath done: yea there is 〈◊〉, nor people, nor climate in the world, which hath not heard of, and 〈◊〉 some measure received the Catholic Roman Religion.  G. ABBOT. 
2. IF you take Religion here for the true service of God, we deny Popery to be Religion. If you take it for devotion in what sense soever, then what say you to the Sarac●…nsfaith; which for many hundreds of year, while it possessed so much of Asia, as Persia, with Media, Arabia with the country, adjoining, besides what is added within these 300. years by the reigns of the Ottomans: in Africa all the Northern part from Egypt to Morocco, along the Mediterrane Sea; and in Europe some thing, as the kingdom of Granado in Spain, and divers times more than that, there, was nothing inferior for circuit of land, to the bounds of the whole Western Church, wherein only the Pope dominered. And shall Mahumetism hereupon be concluded to be that faith which must save mens solus. But good Sir, when the Primitive Church did reach so wide for divers hundreds of years without any main corruption; & when the truth afterward though eclipsed yet was not extinguished in the Eastern, Indian, & African Churches; as also in very many poor men in West 
o See the answer to the 1. Reason.  Europe throughout the worst ages, & when now of late it is spread so wide again, these things do plentifully satisfy all the speeches afore named, & Rome by them shall have no more possession of piety, than a gross harlot hath of honesty. You would gladly draw all Prophecies to you, and appropriate them to yourselves, whereas (those few excepted which living among you loathed your abuses) you had & have the least part of God's congregation to be found with you. And here gentle Doctor, according to your custom, not your mouth but your pen doth exceedingly run over, while you speak things incredible, improbable, impossible, and your Geography is just as sound as your Divinity. Hath your Romanishe belief for a thousand years together, been as largely difused as the beams of the Sun? Before I go farther, I would gladly know, whether you can blush at all or no? Hear your dreaming doth far exceed the doting of Hannibal's Phormio. You must have a face of brass on, when you do but come forth, to make good the least part of this proposition. Cosmographers now divide the world into the old known Countries, and into the new found Lands. And first do you think that in the Lands lately discovered, which in quantity are more than one half of the world, the Sun did not show his be●●●s till within these sixscore years. And can you bring any more 〈…〉 or presumption in the world, that ever Christian man did know them, or they knew any Christian man, but especially that they heard of your Bishop of Rome, till Christopherus Columbus did discover them in the year of our 
p Po●…. Martyr. Decad. 〈◊〉. Benzo. Nov●…orb. Histor. 〈◊〉. 1. 6.  Lord 1492? And if you cannot do this, much less will you evince, that they accepted of his faith for a thousand years together. And as for the South Continent, that was descried but about or since the time of finding of America. As for the old known world, that consisteth in Africa, and Asia, and Europa, in every part of all which the Sun shineth some times in the year, yea even to the very Pole, as the rules of Astronomy (which it seemeth you never understood) will tell you. Until that of late the Portugese's attempting 
q Osor. de gest. Emanucl. lib. 1.  to go to calicut, found the Cape of B●…na 〈◊〉, and since that time have straggingly got here a town, and there a petye Castle upon the Sea coast, all which was but a little before the going out of Columbus; what was there within the whole compass of Africa, which knew aught of the romish doctrine, unless peradventure you will name 
r ●…dem.  Septa, and a town or two in Barbarye, where some Portugese's before that time did dwell, or else perhaps that it was possible, that some Merchants of Europe, might go to Alexandria in Egypt for wares, and there while they resided keep their own superstition? But the country itself was under the Saracent, either Sultanes or Turks for seven or eight hundred years. And as you sped in Africa, so did you in Asia, the whole compass of that huge region taking no notice of your Pope & of his Idolatry. For the Christians which were there, were either of no dependence upon Europe, I speak for the greater part of these last thousand years, or were of the Greek Church. The only thing which can be pretended, is that 
s Malmisb. in Gulielm. a. lib. 4: Girusalemme deal Tasso.  Godfrey of Bullion, and other Christians of the Western p●…s, did for a time conquer and keep the holy land, which is scant the hundredth port of Asia, and this was hold but by the sword, and that but for 
s H●…veden. ●…rt 〈◊〉 in Henry 〈◊〉.  fourscore & seven years, but long before that time, & so since again the Saracens ever had it. What shame is there the in this man, who so asseverantly protesteth such gross falsehoods? At the world then in a miner is shrunk into our Europe; & there again is cut of the Eastern Gr●… church, who could never be brought to join with the Pope of Rome; no not at the 
t Platina in Eugan. 4.  Council of Florence, when Italy had thought to have entangled them in her net, And all the dominion of the Muscovite, which could not be caught by the bait of 
u Possevin. de vebus Muscovit.  Possevinus; Besides the Northern parts of Scythia Europaea, now inhabited by some of the Tartars. So that setting aside religion and common honesty among men, if you had but a compet●… wit, you would never so audaciously have pronounced of this matter. Yet I make you the largest allowance which in any probability you can crave.  
3 But since your hand is in, you will not so give it over. There is no tongue, nor people, nor climate in the world, which hath not heard of, and in some measure received the Catholic Roman religion. Should you not here be answered rather 〈◊〉 ●…stibus then with words? What say you to the South Continent, which is so huge a country, that if the firm land do hold unto the Pole, as it commonly is received and believed, it very near equaleth all Asia, Africa and Europ●…; And what part in all that world, is thoroughly discovered as yet by any Christian? and I do not capitulate with you, touching all of it, but what part at all is there of the same, that hath received the faith of ●…ome? How much is there in Peru, yea of the maritime parts of Brasile, and down toward●… the straights of Magellanus? how much is there in the inland, as that Terra Patago●… or of Gi●…es, yea how much toward the North from thence is there, all which remaineth yet in the possession of mere Infidels, who neither have been yet subjecteth to the heavy yoke of the Spaniards, nor have once tasted of their religion; Indeed for Hispania Nova, and up as high as M●…xice, the Spanish have encroached very much into their hands; but if we look higher into the Northern and colder parts of America, which are not so fit for the breeding of gold the s●…m b●…m of Spain, what huge countries be there of incomparable bigness, which have nothing of Christianity in them? Look either on the farther side, as men pass through the South Sea, in that 
u Hacklan the voyage of S: F: Dr:  Nova Albion touched on by Sir Frauncis-Drake, and all the parts adjacent; or on the nearer fide by the North sea, in Florida, Virginia Norimbega, Estotilant, with all whatsoever is within the straights, together with the main Mediterrane countries, being more than the kings of England and France with diverse other Princes of Europe have under all their dominion; & these remain yet mere ethnics, not knowing of Christ jesus or Christianity, much less the trinkets of spotted Popery. The who regi●… toward the North-pole, as Groneland, and Nova Z●…la, and I cannot tell what beside, remain in the same taking. The top of Scandinaviasas, as L●…ppia, B●…ia, Seriefi●…ia, and Finland, are so merely Gentiles, as that 
x Ol●…●…agn lib. 3. 2. vide Dam. ●…goes de Lappij●….  lately they adored for God, whatsoever they did first see of any living thing, at their coming forth of door every day. The mighty land of Tartary, which containeth in it so many millions of men the dominion of Russia which extendeth in length above 
y Aeg. Fletche. de ●…uss. cap. 1.  four thousand miles, as far as Astrac●… and the Caspian sea? have nothing more to do with the Roman religion, then with that which is farthest from them. Who ever did hear that the Great Cham one of the mightiest Princes on the Earth, did admit aught of Popery. As for China and diverse portions of the East Indies, ●…alfo the Southern part of Persia, and the maritime coasts of Africa and Aethiopia; these have indeed some Portugese's in them here and there upon the Sea cost: but what have the Princes of those countries, or their whole states to do with the Bishop of Rome And what monarch Prester john, & the Sophy or Shaw of Persia be, men of learning know well enough, although you understand it not. To say no more, what is there of the Roman religion received in all Turkey, unless you will say that there be some few Venetian or French merchants, in Constantineple, A leppo, Alexandria or such mart towns, who upon permission, have their Liturgy in some one set place; or unless you will name those few Italian Friars, who paying a tribute to the Turk for it, do lie at Jerusalem, that there they may show the counterfeit sepulchre of Christ, to such superstitious Christian Pilgrime●…, as in their blind devotion travail to the holy land Thus grossy & absurdly, and ignorantly, and audaciously, you writ you know not what. But if lying will prevail, you are resolved to have it. Miserable are out Papists who read such books as these be, and esteem them as jewels, and believe them, and dare not look on any man's writing which displayeth the falsehood of them, for fear lest they should learn the truth, or catch some goodness by them. God open their blinded understanding.  T. HILL. 
NEither can the Protestants say't, that the Church 〈◊〉 gins ●…th to flourish, and to dilate itself in the world after so many age●…t for that now it ss grown old and aged as is most pl●…e, 
Colos. 〈◊〉. Ireneus l. 1. cap. 3. Tert. li. cont. judens c. 4. Cypr. de unitat. Eccl. Athana. lib. de humanit verb. Chris. & Hier. in Mat. 24. Aug in Epist. 78. & 80. ad He sychium. Theod. lib. de legibus. Leo M●…g. ser. 1. de S. Petro & Paulo.  and to say that she 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 her young years, but now in her old age it to make her a Monster. She must therefore of necessity have graw●… and increased and occupied if not all the world, yet 〈◊〉 doubt the greatest part thereof, and so hath the Catholic Roman Church, and 〈◊〉 but she done: for in the Apostles time she began to fractifie in all the world. And in Saint Iren●… his time, she was spread all ever the world than knownne, as she was afterwards in Tertullian his time, and 〈◊〉 the days of Saint Cyprian, Athanasius, chrysostom, Hierome, August●…, Theodoretus, Leo the great and Prosper, who in his look De Ingratis hath these words, 
Sedes Roma Petri, quae pastoralis honoris  
Facta caput mundo, quic quid non possidet armis,  
Religione tenet.  Which thus may be Englished 
Rome Peter's seat, whose Bishop is of Prelates Peerless Lord  
Religion Lady makes of all, which arms do not afford.   G. ABBOT. 
4. The objection which here you frame in our name, is of your own invention, & shallow like yourself, & so is your comparison, that the Church ●…st not breed now at this time, lest she should be like a monst 〈◊〉. And yet you will have your Church now within these hundred years, spread herself into the East & West Indies, where she never was before. I will not here remember you that, 
z Gen. 18. 11.  Sata in her younger years did never conceine, but in her old age ●…ote a son, & yet she●… 〈◊〉 monster. But howsoev●… ordinarily women in their younger years do breed most children, and it were a monstrous matter as you would insinuate unto us, that in old age they should have many, yet this maketh nothing for your purpose, neither hath it any affinity with the spouse of jesus Christ. For women till convenient age breed no children at al. And will you think that the Church was ever at that pass? And women after a time leave bringing forth altogether: & whereas the age of some of them hath extended to a hundred, for the latter half thereof they have continued childless. Will your wit serve you to think, that so it is with Christ's beloved? Then the later generations of the world should be in a fearful state. You may therefore understand, that the fruitfulness of the Church, is neither tied to the first age, nor middle age, nor the last age, but to such times as the Lord hath appointed, who decreeth that at some times there should be balcyons days, but some other seasons great tempests, in which the Church shall have a being, but yet be reduced to straits, and to a smaller number. Let any man look into this before the coming of Christ, at which time, the Church was in her youth, for almost 2000 years, being contained in the houses of a very few of the patriarchs. After 
a Exod. 1. 1. 7  jacobs' coming into Egypt, & the multiplying of the Israelits, her branches were spread wider. And so did she continue upon reasonable terms, until 
b 1. King. 12 28.  jeroboams time. But when the Princes of Israel utterly forsook the Lord, & the kings of juda also many times turned from the way, both themselves & their people; were not the good brought to a great paucity? Yet when 
c 2 King. 18 〈◊〉. Cap. 22. 2.  Hezechias came, they were more a sloat again: but after him they went as fast down. Then ᵈ josias once more very admirably did put life into than again, yet when he was dead, till the coming of Christ which was well-near five hundred years, there was great scarcity of the faithful, saving about the time when the 
e ●…r. 2. 1.  temple was re-edified. In that state did our Saviour find it: & then nor many of the jews were reduced to the faith, but the main harvest was of the Gentiles. Now if any of the false Priests, either in the days of josias, or of the Apostles, would have been of your mind, he might have argued as you do, that if the Church then should be said to bring out more children, than formerly she had done, she must have gone for a monster. So it is since the time of Christ. God hath his appointed seasons which himself hath foretold, sometimes promising that his spouse should flourish, and some other times be obscured. So in the days of Constantine, the hue of her, not for purity but for extent, was more glorious then under all the former Emperors. Under Constantius & julian her territory was abridged: yet under the Theodosijs and some other blessed Emperors, she grew again, & notwithstanding was no monster. After ward her beauty was dimmed, the authority of Antichrist spreading itself in the world, as it was before hand 
f Apo. 13. 14  prophesied that it should be. But God at last did determine, that when other things should be accomplished, the 
g 2. Thes. 2. 8.  wicked man should be revealed, as all the world may see that in our time he is, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, that is with the preaching of the word, which who doth not see to have diminished the kingdom of the Pope, and shall abolish with the brightness of his coming, so that Antichrist albeit much maimed shallbe till the last day of judgement, & therefore his Ministers must strive to keep his kingdom upright, as our jesuits & Seminary Priests do. But his Babylon in part & by degrees must fall, & so it is already. The Church was ever somewhat, but of late she is more glorious then in some ages before. What will you therefore say farther?  
5. She began in the Apostles time to fructify in all the world. That we do not deny but the question is, whither the Gospel did spread otherwise, than every way, toward all the coasts of the world, in such sense as formerly I have showed. It was toward the East and West, and North and South, but not in every particular province under heaven. The words of 
h Lib. 1. 3.  Ireneus are, The Church having gotten this faith, although she be dispersed through the whole world, doth diligently keep it. whereout if you will gather, that in his time the Church was in all the known world, you will make us of Britain very ancient partakers of the faith, since 
i Euse. Eccl. Histor. 5. 19  Ireneus was the scholar of Polycarpus, whose Master was john the Evangelist. And this excellently fitteth your report of king Lucius & Pope Eleutherius. Tertullian saith thus: 
k Contra judaeos c. 4.  The kingdom & name of Christ is every whither extended, is every where believed, is embraced by all the nations above named, reigneth every where, is every where adored. The countries before named are from India to Aethiopi●…, Germany, Britain, Mauritania and some few other. Cyprian saith 
l De simplicit. prelato. vel de unirat. Eccles.  The Church with store of fruitfulness doth stretch forth her bows into the whole world. The speech of Athanasius is, 
m De incar. nat. verbi.  As many nations as be any where, abjuring th●…r countries rites, & the wickedness of their Idols do now place their hope on Christ, and do give their names, unto him, as even by the very eyes a man may deprehend. chrysostom writeth thus: 
n In Mat 24  That before the overthrow of the City of Jerusalem, the Gospel was spread through the world; hear Paul, Their sound is gone out into all lands. And Hierome commenting on the same text, 
o Higher in Matth: 24:  A sign of the Lords coming is, that the Gospel should be preached in all the world, that no man may be excusable, whichwe see already fulfilled, or shortlee to be completed: For I do not think that there is any nation remaining, which is ignorant of the name of Christ. And although it hath not had a Preacher, yet by the bordering nations it cannot be ignorant of an opinion of the faith. St, Austen being inquired of, concerning the end of the world, saith that before it come, the Gospel must be preached to all nations, which in as much as he supposed not to be done in his time, he resolveth that the day of judgement was not presently to follow. Hear himself, 
p Epist. 78:  But if by reason of certain places, which are inaccessible and in hospital, it is not believed to be possible, that the world should be traveiled over by the servaunts of GOD, and it should be faithfully reported, how many and how great nations there be yet without the Gospel of Christ; much less do I suppose, that by the Scriptures it may be comprehended, how long times there shall be unto the end, in as much as in them we do read, No man can know the times which the Father hath put in his own power. In the second Epistle which you cite out of Saint Austen, the best words that I can find for your purpose are these, 
q Epist: 80.  The Prophet showeth, h●…we there is no part of the world left, where the Church is not, since there is 〈◊〉 of the islands left, but that it doth adore him. What more is in this place you shall hear by and by. Theodoret hath thus much; speaking of Antichrist, 
r In divino. decretor. Epitome.  by the prediction of God, the Gospel must be preached among all Nations, and then he that is Antichrist, must be so seen. The words of Leo are, 
s Leo serm. 〈◊〉: in not iv. Petr. & Paul.  To the end that the effect of this unspeakable grace of CHRIST'S taking flesh upon him, might be spread through all the world, the providence of God did prepare the kingdom of the Romans. Prosper writeth how Pelagius the heretic being sprung up in Britain was oppugned.  


s Prosper do Ingratis.  Talia cum demens latè diffunderet error  
Commentisque rudes traheret let halibus aures,  
Adfuit exhortante Deo provisa per orbem  
Sanctorum pia cura patrum, non dispare ●…otu  
Conficiens diros taculis coelestib●… hosts.  
Hisdem namque simul decretis spiritus unus  
Intonuit, pestem subeuntem prima recidit  
Sedes Roma Petri, quae Pastorales honoris  
Facta caput mundo, quicquid non possidet armis  
Relligione tenet; non signor inde Orientis  
Rectorum cura emicuit.   
6 These words if you will urge for the Primacy of Rome, they do in substance import no more, then that which was decreed in the first Nicene Council, where the Bishop of Rome was termed 
t Vide Gratian part: 1: Distinct: 99 3:  Primae sedis Episcopus, and the words poetically serte out by caput pastoralis honoris do signify no more. Therefore you go to far, when you say the Bishop of Rome is of Prelates peerless Lord, which yourself may see, since Prosper in confuting Pelagius, joineth many other Bishops as equals in care with the Pope. But then he reckoneth him up first, secondly the Bishops of the East, afterward Hierome. And whereas he termeth Rome the seat of Peter, that was according to atradition much received among the Ancient, but for the manner thereof much differed upon by all. Besides Prosper lived in the days of Pope Leo the first, with 
In vita Leonis Mapni.  whom he was very familiar, & with 
u In vita Prosp. Aquitan.  whom he was at Rome, receiving many favours from Leo, and therefore might more easily incline to the opinion of that Pope, who began to arrogate too much to his See, and to magnify it so far as that his Successors, but especially. 
x Lib. 3. Epist. 76.  Gregory would not stand to it. This doth often appear in the works of Leo, but I will cite by name one place, whence Prosper might have the prose of that, which heeturned into verse. Speaking unto Rome, as concerning Peter & Paul, he saith thus: 
y Leo Serm. 1. in Nativit. Petr. & Pauli.  These are they who brought thee to this glory, that thou shouldest be a holy nation, a chose people, a city of Priests & Kings, and that by the holy seat of Saint Peter, thou being made the head of the world, shouldst more largely rule by divine religion, then by earthly dominion. When Prosper heard this from Leo as an Orator, he might set it a strain higher as a Poet, who in his amplification would leave out no word, which might grace the place whom he would honour. And then he could not see the inconvenience, that afterward did arise by too much magnifying that Episcopal or Patriarchical city. And these things are especially to be remembered, if you would urge his words to that purpose, which in this place principally concerneth you, that is to say, that the faith was spread over all the world. Truth it is that much of the world joined in the same belief with the Clergy & city of Rome, & from thence as being one of the Imperial residences, they had great light; & many also repaired to the Bishops there, as being for a long time eminent persons, in respect of their holiness of life; but if we will speak exactly, neither did they take their religion from thence, more than from Jerusalem, Alexandria & Antioch, neither did, I will not say the fai●…h of Rome, but that faith which was in Rome, as well as in other places, possess the whole world. For first the 
z Loco cita●…o.  words of Leo himself, do signify the Christian Religion to be no farther spread over the earth, than the Roman Empire had been, or little more; & we know that albeit under that Empire was much of the old known world, yet there was also a very great deal which never came under their subjection. And secondly even at that time, being about 450. years after Christ, neither by the Apostles, nor by their successors had the Gospel been mentioned in many parts of the old world, which is it that seemeth here to lie on you to prove. And for this we need no better testimony than his whom before you cited, S. Austen I mean, who was an old man living when Prosper was young. Besides I will choose no other place, but one of those whom yourself cite, which being thoroughly scanned by the Reader, will evidently show that you D Hill do take up your wares at trust. Or else, had you looked and known the place yourself, you would never have cited that, which so expressly confirmeth the point by me taught, and overturneth your assertion, of the Gospel being spread in all countries of the world, taking countries and Nations, particularly and specially, and strictly as you do in your discourse.  
7 Saint 
a Epist, 78:  Austen then being asked by Hesychius, concerning the n●…enesse of the day of judgement, had in a former Epistle given reasons out of the holy Scriptures, why that time was not likely to be very shortly: and among other that was one, that the 
b Mat. 24. 14  Gospel of the kingdom had not yet been preached throughout the whole world. Hesychius is not yet thoroughly satisfied, & thereupon S. Austen so advertised setteth to him again in a second Epistle, and farther prosecuting that point of the faith not yet received every where, he uttereth these words: 
c Epistol. 80.  Whereas your Reverence doth think that this is already done by the Apostles themselves, I have proved by certain arguments that it is not so. For there are with us, that is to say in Africa; innumerable barbarous nations, among whom that the Gospel is not yet preached, we may every day read●… learn, by those who are brought captives from thence, & are now mingled with the servants of the Romans. Then he addeth that some of the African people, being lately subjecteth to the Romans, had given their names to Christ But those more inward who are under no power of the Romans, are not at all possessed with the Christian religion, in any of theirs. Yet he saith it was not to be doubted, but that more and more would come in, that the Prophecies of the Scripture might be fulfilled. But that the Western part of the world had the Church then already. Afterward, look in what nations therefore the Church yet is not, it must be not that atwhich shallbe there must believe, for all nations are promised, but not all men of all nations. And yet again, How then was this preaching fulfilled by the Apostles, in as much as yet there be nations (which is unto us most assured) in whom it lately began, and in whom not as yet it is begun to be fulfilled. He showeth that it was and must be performed in the Apostles and their successors, to the end of the world. And to that purpose he expoundeth that speech, 
d Psal. 19 4.  Their sound is gone out into all lands, by the future tense as well as by the time past. He shutteth it up thus, It is fructifying and growing in all the world, although the Gospel did not yet possess the whole: but he did say that it did fructify in the whole world & increase, that so he might signify how far it should come by fructifying and increasing. Now who doth not see that the same which this worthy Father said in his time, of innumerable nations in Africa not yet called to the faith, might then & many hundreds of years afterward, yea in some till our time, be verified of the Northern parts of Europe, and of the North and East countries of Asia, to say nothing of all the new-discovered lands, toward the North, South & West, of which before I have spoken. And this together with Hieroms own words before mentioned, Or else we see shortly to be fulfilled, 
In Mat. 24  doth show that the speeches of the ancient Fathers above named, are not strictly and precisely to be taken, but that all is to be understood, for much and many, and for all the general coasts lying to the East and West and North and South, not including each special. And so consequently such a multitude of authorities is but very idly brought: for we will & ever do grant so much, as any man can in truth wish to be collected out of them. But what is all this to the purpose, since neither then nor since, they do agree with the polluted doctrine of your synagogue: and the faith which old Rome spread or maintained, is no more consonant to this infidelity which our new Rome maintaineth, than an apple is like an oyster. Which one answer although it cut of all your cavils, which you fetch from antiquity in praise of Rome, and we frequently inculcate it unto you, yet because it so biteth, you will in no sort remember. It is a trick in Rhetoric, but it is withal but a base shift, to slip by that, or to seem to forget that, which woundeth to the heart and utterly destroyeth.  T. HILL. 
BUt the Protestants per adventure will grant, that the true Church flourished in those days, but not afterwards until this age, in which they have reform the same: yet is it most manifest that it flourished afterwards even until this our time, no less than it and before, if not more: for in Saint Gregory his days it was spread all over the world, as appeareth by his Epistles to the Bishops of the East, of Africa, Spain, France, England, Sicily. And by Saint Bede in cap. 6. Cantic. as also by Saint Bernard, who disputing before Rogerim King of Sicily, avouched that in those days, the East, all the West, France, Germany, England, Spaniards, and many barbarous nations obeyed the Bishop of Rome.  G. ABBOT. 
8. The Protestant's not fearing that you shall gain any thing by that which is truth, will refuse to yield you nothing that is true. In the first Church, that is while the Apostles lived, the spouse of Christ for doctrine was most glorious, & for some hundreds of years afterwards, her honour flourished not a little: yet so that some petty superstitions began to creep in here and there. But about six hundred years after Christ, she for the outward face did more & more droop in doctrine. 
f 1. joh. 2. 18  Antichrists began to peep up in the Apostles time, but then they could not properly be called the great Antichrist. And that which was then, was not so eminently, as that the followers of the Apostles did much observe it, being then more troubled with persecution or heretics, then with superstition. In process of time matters grew to a worse state, evil opinions creeping in, & at last the main 
g 2. Thes. 2. 3  Apostasy followed. But in this Apostasy & very great declining, there were who yielded not to the time, but kept themselves unspotted of the world, especially for mainest points of salvation. And it being thus when things were at the worst, God in this later age, hath suffered that truth which was more hidden, to illustrate the Christian world again. Yea but you will prove, that since the Primitive Church, faith flourished more than before, or at the least it was not diminished until our time. You can do wonders Sir, or else your own reason would inform you, that nothing been added till these lare navigations of the Portugese's & Spaniards, Christianity must needs be exceedingly diminished, when the Saracens & Turks for so long space, have devoured so much of Asia, Europa, & Africa, as is or hath been under them. You are but a simple man for story, & weaker for Cosmography, or else you would not so improbably talk at random. But any thing serveth your turn. Well, the faith was in Gregory's times over all the world. How prove you this? Forsooth he wrote Epistles to Bishops of Spain, France, England, Sicily, yea & of the East, & of Africa, Ergo the faith was over all the world. A young man of the age of sixteen years hath by his diligence learned without book, the Epistle to Philemon, & that to the Colossians, yea the book of Ruth and the Prophecy of Aggeus, therefore he can say all the Bible by heart. This is Logic for the Seminaries, but not currant elsewhere. What wrote he into Tartary, or India, or Manicongo, what to Finland, or Iseland, or a thousand places more? And what saith Bede? 
h In Cantic. 6.  The sum of the citizens of that celestial country doth exceed the measure of our estimation. But this is spoken of all the faithful that are, were, or ever shall be in the world? As also that following upon the text, Adole scentularum non est numerus, There are saith he young maidens whereof there is no number, because there are sound innumerable compantes of Christian people. Which within seven lines after he maketh most evident, The universal Church which in the same her faithful members, from the beginning even unto the ending of the world, from the rising of the Sun unto the setting, from the North and the Sea do praise the name of the Lord. Doth this show any extraordinary thing in the time of Beda, or any flourishing of the Church, or more than that there were faithful toward all parts of the world? Such is that which was brought touching S. 
i In vita Bernard. L●…. 217:  Bernard, who upon a great schism in the Church of Rome, between Innocentius, and the Antipape Petrus Leonis, being sent for to compose this strife, and to see whether he could win over to Innocentius, Robert the King of Sicily who stood for Peter, in his Oration saith, that if Peter's side were good, they who acknowledged Innocentius for Pope should be in very ill case: And these he nameth, Then the Eastern Church shall perish, which at that time could comprehend no more but those few Christians, which were warring in or about Palestina: for the Greek Churches did not then acknowledge the Pope's jurisdiction, the whole West shall perish, France shallperish, Germany shall perish, the Spanish and English and the Barbarian kingdoms shall be drowned in the bottom of the Sea. Where he doth not add these special countries over and above the West, but signifieth what was meant by that general name, that is to say, France, Germany, Spain and England with some inferior Kingdoms. So that now if S. Bernard do say any thing here, your all the world is wonderfully shrunk in the wetting. So you strive against the stream, and the farther you go, the worse you go.  T. HILL. 
AND in these days it is all over Italy, all over Spain, and in France, in most parts of Germany, in Poleland, Boheme, besides England, Hungary, Greece, Syria, Aethiopia, Egypt, in which Lands are many Catholics, and in the new world it flourisheth mightily, in all the four parts of the world, Eastward in the Indies, Westward in America; Northward in japonia, Southward in Brasilia, & in the uttermost parts of Africa  G. ABBOT. 
9 AS many as be disposed to know the Pope's strength, hearken now to his muster-maister. Al, Italy cometh first as being nearest the Pope's nose; then all Spain is the second legion. But how would it be in these lands, if your inquisitors did give scope; when do what you can, with all your bloody torments, you cannot root religion out of those places? Yea it seemeth that some where in Italy it beareth a pretty show, when your Cardinal Bellarmine to the cold comfort of his old heart, could complain that Lutheranism (for so he calleth it) had 
k In praefat. Generali:  at last passedover the Alps, and pierced even unto very Italy. But is your Pope come to that poverty, that now of all the firm land of Europe you can single out but two countries, which stand wholly for him? Yea and one of those also liable to so evident an exception? This is a good step within one hundred of years. In the next age God Almighty may pluck many of these from him also. But his will must be done. In other Realms there be Catholics, as in France. It is not so far from us, but we know how the world goeth there. It is possible within that Kingdom to find more than seven 
l 1. Reg. 19 18.  thousand who never bowed their knees to Baal. And be they such Papists in the most parts of Germany? I am sure you have heard of one Luther, whose scholars and himself have not lost much time there. I know you have great joy to remember him. For Polonia & Bohemia, I believe that you heard some body say, that there be both Nobles and of other sorts, who have a religion besides Popery. Those who love Hus and Luther are not all dead in the one: And in the other, somewhat there is in it, that in the open assembly of the States or 
m Prefat. Ap●…log. I●…. In ●…ui. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  Parliament, it hath been dared to be proposed, that the jesuits & their Colleges should be extirpated thence. That in England there be some whom we pity & pray for, we cannot deny, that is especially the weak & beguiled ones, As also that there be some more obstinate ones left, to be like the Canaanites 
n Numer. 33. 55.  pricks in our eyes and thorns in our sides: but surely you can make no great boast of the Pope's tyrannising here. Nay it is to be hoped, that his number is likely day by day to be diminished, since many indifferently affected returning to their own judgement, will see that they have been abused by the Priests, who never ceased to inculeate into their ears, that if once the ere of her late most Christian Majesty were out, England would be nothing but as a field of blood, to the Professors of our Religion; and what by the strength of the united Romanistes within the land, and of the assistance of some Popish Princes from beyond the Seas, Papistry would here flourish in main magnificence: Which vain tales many of them in their weakness believing, thought is was best to betake themselves to their congregation betimes, lest such multitudes coming in afterward, there would no notice be taken of them or perhaps no room be left for them. That in Hungary true religion is not unknown, may b●… guessed by those 
o 〈◊〉 Sleidan. lib. 14 & 26.  manifold petitions almost of the whole Realm, to have the Gospel countenanced by law, even so long agone as in the time of Ferdinandus afterward Emperor. But for the state of divers of these countries, I had leifer you should hear Bellamine then me. Thus the he choketh your assertion: 
p In presat Generali.  Who is ignorant that the Lutheran pestilence, which a little before did begin in Saxony, did presetly possess almost all germany then that it went to the North & to the East: that it wasted Denmark, Norway, Sueden, Gotheland, Pannonia, Hungary: then that with the like speed being carried to the West & South, it did in short time destroy France England, Scotland, which ere-whiles were most flourishing kingdoms; at last passed the Alps, & pierced even into very Italy? For the rest which you do name, you are in worse case then pitiful P. What many Catholics have you in Greece? Some few Venetian merchants which trade to Constantinople, or some other of like quality. For the professed Religion through Greece is turcism: & the Christians there inhabiting as being of the Greekish Church, do decline your Pope as the Cockatrice of the world. And is it not thus in Syria, where the people are also Turks; only you have a few Friars lying at jerusalem to show some sergeant Relics, & either forged or suspect places, to pilgrims. To furnish up this little band, I pray you put to, your merchants lying at Aleppo, & for Egypt's sake, foget not those also at C●…iro or Alexandria, for if you should take these away, you will not leave yourselves a man there. So that while you mention such stuff, do you any thing else than dally with your Reader? And what have you in Aethiopia under Prester john's dominion? In religion he differeth far from you as 
q Lib 9 de gest is ●…manuel.  Osorius & ᵗ Damianus a Goes show: he never heard of your Pope till of late, & he will hold nothing from him. Perhaps you have some one or two Friars there, who are sent to learn the language, or may serve to do 
r Demoribus Aethio. pum.  some turns for your Portugal Merchants, dwelling on some maritime places of the farther side of Africa. Or some of those traffickers do go with their wares to some towns of Aethiopia. This is a worthy matter to be cited for the honour of your holy mother.  
10 I do wonder that being here in this sweet enumeration, you tell us not out of 
s Contr Machiavelli. Lib. 3. 4.  Bozius, that of purpose to acknowledge the Pope's prerogative, & to swear obedience to him, there came out of Africa to Clement the 7. the Legates of David the King of the Aethiopians, & of the Princes of Mexico, from the most remote kingdoms of the Western Indres: & to julius the 2. Embasladors out of Africa from the king of Mantcongo: & lately to Gregory the 13. from lapona in the East Indies, & from the mighty kings of the Tartars in Asia. Such coney-catching tricks have been practised a great while, to magnify the Bishop of Rome. Sometimes there hath been no body at all: some other times some hungry cunning slave put into a strange coat, and two or three beggars after him, (who like rogues have wandered up & down, or run away from their country, or come from some great ones as spies) hath been the Legate or Patriarch, without penny of maintenance, or ship to bring them, or aught to grace them. 
s Gentillet, in examine. Council Tridentin Self, 1.  Engenius the 4. to give credit to his Conventicle at Floremce, against the Synod held at Basile, giveth out that josippus the Patriarch of Constantinople, came to submit himself & his country unto him: & when josippus was dead, an Epistle was published, which he was said to writ in his death bed, signifying to all those that were within his Patriarchate, that he approved the doctrine of the Papacy, & acknowledged the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ. This was about the year 1439. And to show his facility in this kind of invention, the same Eugenius provided some to come, not into the council for fear of the pack being discovered, but about the ending of it, who said that they were the Legates of the Patriarch of Armeni●…, who also professed to allow the faith of the Pope, & to approve that which was concluded in the Conventicle of Floremce. And because such fine tricks as these should not grow clean out of use, at the last meeting at Trent, 
t Idem in Session. 21.  Pope Pius the 4. had such a Pageant. For he caused Amulius the Cardinal then abiding at Rome with him, to write a solemn letter to the Fathers at Trent, that one Abdisu the Patriarch of the Assyrians in the East, dwelling near the river Tigris, was by the advice of his people come to Rome the year before, accompanied with some Priests & a Deacon: That the Pope in a full consistory of his Cardinals, had pronounced him to be the Patriarch, & Pastor of that people, & yet not so, but that first he did hear him make the confession of his faith, and took an oath of him to keep obedience to the See Apostolic: That departing away, he desired to have sent him a copy of the Decrees of the Tridentine council, when all there should be accomplished. But in the mean while he did testify, that the same faith which is now held in the Church of Rome, had without any variation been among them, since the days of the Apostles. All this was divulged after that Abdisu was gone from Rome: to the end that no man might disprove it. What a wrong did you to your cause, that you did not put these in, especially since the jurisdiction of this Patriarch was so large, that he had under him in the Great Turk's dominion, seven Archbishoprickes; all Metropolitans, & thirteen bishoprics; under the Sophy of of Persia five Archbishoprickes Metropolitan, & thirteen bishoprics, ●…yea under the dominion of the Portugeses in India, three Archbishoprickes & one Bishopric. Would not this have made a fair show when your troops were in the field? you have done your Lord and Master the Pope wrong, so to oover-skippe these in such a fashion. For our part we must wink at such simple tricks as these Bee. Yet these will serve to abuse the children of unbelief, and to gull many a good silly Papist.  
11 Some kind hearted man will pity me, that when you lead me such a dance over all the world, as you do, I must be bound to follow you. But let my friends take no care, for if you make not very good haste, I shall be in some of the places as soon as you. Now we come to the new worlds, whereof our great Grandfathers never heard, and there we must think that Popery springeth by thousands. In what country are you Sir, when to make up your four quarters, you put japonia in the North? It is within less than ten degrees of the Tropic, and more Southward than Spain, yet with you it must be North. So Brasilia is southward, when yet the upper part thereof, is very near to the line. If you had named the South Continent for South, and the Isles toward the Northern Pole for North, or else Cathay, we had better allowed thereof. But we must take what you give us, and you must give what you get. We will for the while do you the favour, as to imagine you to stand just under the equinoctial. But the common brag which is agreed upon among you, is that you have large harvests in the new world. Bristol 
u Motiv. 2●….  saith that the Church hath in those parts won more incomparably, than i●… hath lost by Heretics in these our parts. Stapleton goeth as far beyond him, as he goeth beyond the truth. Thus than he talketh: 〈◊〉 Though in very deed through the 
A Discourse upon the doctrine of the Protestants.  pernicious persuasions of that wedded Friar, certain places and covers of Christendom, have swerved from the Catholic Church, and authority of the Apostolic Se●…, in these North parts of the world, yet it hath thousands fold more been enlarged, in the West parts and the new lands, found out by Spaniards and Portugese's in these late years, as the letters of the jesuits directed from those countries into these parts do evidently and Miraculously declare. He who wrote the Apology of the Seminaries, harpeth upon this string, but with a lower tone, 
z Chap. 6.  The jesuits in the East Indies, have brought countries which were very barbarous, and the most potent Princes of them, together with the provinces and people subject unto them, to the Catholic & Romans faith. 
y Con. Davidem Chytraeum.  Possevinus your great Statesman proclaimeth, that in these lands lately discovered, it is a miracle of all miracles, to see how many be con verted, men going through so many seas to do it, & then without weapon or force alluring them to Christ. But all these great clamours not withstanding, they who will read either your own writers or other, know how it standeth well enough. Then briefly to open the truth. In the year 
Pet. Mar. Decad. 1. 1.  1492, Columbus the Genua with some Spaniards, at the charge of Ferdinandus & Elizabeth king and Queen of Castille, did fail so far to the West, that he came to the islands since called Cuba & Hispaniola. The matter which there they aimed at, was store of gold and silver, which the country did yield, & afterward they did light also thereabout on abundance of pearl, all which were sweet baits for the greedy & needy Spaniards. The fame of this stirred up both the Princes to send, & the subjects to go in huge numbers thither: when not long●… after the main land of America was descried, and after that, Peru, the South sea, & the kingdom of Mexico. 
a Benzo in nova novi orbis h●st●ria. li. 1 & 2.  In all these rich Provinces did these Spaniards set footing, and finding them little better than naked men, without armour, iron or steel, having only for their weapons, clubs and simple bows & arrows, they without leave or liking of the inhabitants, built at first Castles in diverse places, & afterward at their pleasure towns & cities. Some of the ancient people there they slew down in warisome other of them they caused to destroy one another, either raising new discords among them, or cunningly perpetuating their old: thousands of them did these new comers slay taking them single and alone: such as lived they enforced to be their slaves, causing them to work like brute beasts in their mines, without any compassion of them: where if they were slack, they were chastised with intolerable torture: which made many of them drown themselves, some others throw themselves from rocks or into the mines: yea generally they so loathed their in human cruelty, that thousands of women great with child either destroyed themselves, or the children in their bellies, that they might not bring into the world any creatures, to be slaves to so vile & outrageous persons. In the mean while they go on with rebellion against Columbus their governor, who for recompense of his honest service was by some of them tumulting, thrust out of his commanding charge, & sent bound into Spain, to the dislike of the K. & Q. they fell to murder one another, they spent their time in dieing, swearing, cu●…sing & blaspheming God, in rapes & violent deflouring of the wives & daughters of the americans, & in all such incogitable & execrable villainy, as if they had been Devils and infernal spirits, let lose and sent from hell, to the desolation of those countries.  
12 These matters grew so horrible, that the Captains who were more civil, complained of it first to K. Ferdinandus, & afterward to Charles the 5. Emperor, & K. of Spain: the poor Friars that had been there, ran with open mouth to diverse of the Popes, desiring their mediation, and that for Christianity's sake it might be amêded. The writers, as 
b Decad. 3. 8. & 5. 9 & 〈◊〉 4. Benzo. li. 1. 25.  Pet. Martyr of Milan, Benzo, Bartholomeus de Casa & other, have never done in reproving it, & crying out upon it. All this while here is scant any speech of baptizing any, or bringing them to Christ: that which was done, was only by the Friars: & it being hastily administered, & without all sound understanding of the mysteries of salvation, did so little prevail in truth with the ignorant Infidels, that they oftentimes 
c Benzo. l. 1 c. 13.  reviled the God of the Christians, affirming that he must needs be a wicked God, which kept such naughty servants: & thereupon renounced & reneaged their Christianity. So that the Spaniards should be so far, from making any boast by themselves or their friends, that they have there converted souls, that if there do remain any spark of grace in them, as in charity we hope there doth, they may justly fear, that the everlasting destruction there of innumerable souls, will be laid to their charge, and the blood of them will be required at their hands, either by some severe punishment on them or their posterity in this world, or by the condemnation in another world, of the souls of as many as have been guilty thereunto, & have died without repentance. Whereas at the first, with their Christian behaviour, & manlike usage, they might have won many from their Gentilism, & if they had not infected them with Antichristian superstition, they might have been means to help them to heavens what store of those Ethnics offspring is left in those parts, which the Spaniards do possess, may be gathered from a proportion taken out of Hispaniola, which is one of the biggest islands be hither America. Benzo a great traveller was there, and spent much time in those parts. Hear then what he saith: 
d Nova novi orbis historia, l. 25  By the intolerable cruelty of the spaniards it is brought to pass in Hispaniola, that of two millions of the Indians, that is twenty hundred thousand persons, by whom that Island was inhabited, some being slaive by their own hands, and some beeeing killed and wasted, by the cruelty of the Sp●…yardes and the bitterness of their works, there are scant remaining at this day a hundred and fifty. The words are somewhat obscure in the close, whither he meaneth a hundred and fifty persons, or a hundred and fifty thousand; although I rather take it to be the former. I find also elsewhere by a 
e Additan 9 partis Americ●…. pag. 44  traveller mentioned, that in one city of those Western parts, the name whereof is Imperial there were before the coming of the Christians thither, three hundred thousand Indians inhabiting, of whom about 20. armed Spaniards by such devises as they had, did kill 2. hundred thousand. And what is since become of the rest we may judge. If these should be thought to be partial, hearken to the jesuit who compiled the book called Nona pars America. This then is his relation: The principal cause wherefore Nova Hispania is very much uninhabited, is this, that very few escaped 
Lib. 3. 22.  when it at first was possessed by the Spaniards. Our M. Watson speaketh as plain as the best 
g Quod. 8. 6  The treatise of that worthy Bishop Bartholomeus Cusaus' (a Spantards borne) dedicated to the last king of Spain, hath laid the Spanish proceed amongst the West Indians, so plainly out in their colours: how many millions of men, women, & children, they have there murdered: & that with such inhuman barbarensues, & much more than Phalerical cruelty, as until they do repent them, & are become a new generation, all kingdoms & countries in the world are to pray at the least to be delivered from them. By all which it is plain, that the now. dwellers in those parts of America which are said to be Christian, are few others but Spaniards, who taking thither their wives & daughters, are much multiplied within these hundred years; the men making no spare to beget children any way, after the Spanish fashion. But as touching the naturals of the Country, first there are few left among them. Secondly those who be there, being in truth no better than vassals, slaves & drudges to the Spaniards, come on slowly to be baptized. And thirdly they who for fear or fashion come, do in heart hate them & their religion, & lack but opportunity to revolt 
h Quod. 5. 4  from them: And this is the propagating of the faith which they have made in the West Indies. Look what they have there Spanish, so much have they Popish. In the upper part of Peru they have somewhat, in the like sort as before I have showed; but down toward Magellanes straits, as also in Brasile which properly belongeth to the Portugese's, they have only here & there a castle, or little town standing on the sea coast; but in the Inland they have very little. And in these Castles, look what devotion their own people have, that is papistical: but the men of those parts, meddle not with them more than they must needs, and with their religion not at all.  
13 And for the East Indies thus the matter standeth. The country of the Portugese's being but dry and barren, & the people more than well could be maintained thereupon, 
i Osor. de gest. Emanuel. lib. 1.  Henry their king who died in the year 1460 was willing to employ some of his men, to discover by Sea the West side of Africa down toward the South. And having done somewhat that way, the next king succeeding him but one, that is to say john the son of Alphonsus proceeded yet farther, & opened even to the Promontory or Cape by him called Caput Bonae Spei. King Emanuel the Great Portugal who succeeded john, did sand out 
k 1497.  Vascus Gama with some few ships, to compass this Cape, & passing toward the East, to salle as far as Calicut in India. Where arriving, & not long after pretending an earnest desire to enter traffic between the two nations, to the enriching of them both, the Portugese's entreated, that for their safety's sake they might have leave to build them a little Castle; giving out that they were in much danger otherwise, as partly from the subjects of the king of Calicut, so especially from the Saracens who envied their trading into those parts, as prejudicial to their former commodity. This Castle they furnished with armour & ordinance, which was then scant known in those parts, & therefore was less able to be resisted. And to this place every year they sent new supplies of men out of Europe. As they did at Calicut, so proceeding in time, on more and more to the East, they every where erected their castles & fortresses, the drift whereof the kings of the countries at the first did not perceive: but afterward to their cost finding how themselves were annoyed, they desired to remedy it when it was too late. Besides this, the Portugese's finding discord between the petty Princes of those parts, they secretly stickled that forward, as between the Kings of Calicut, Cananor, Cochimum & other: & where they saw advantage, they gave open assistance to one party: by which means they wasted the Indians, & procured to themselves much reputation of valour, men standing in dread of them for their subtlety, ordinance & good shipping. Their incrochments so increased, that they got into their hands some cities, as Goa, which now they have made their Metropolis, or imperial residence for their Viceroy; yea they have set footing into some of the Isles of the Moluccoes. And since the time that all these, together with the crown of Portugal itself, is come into the possession of the Spanish King as chief Lord, Spaniards have come about from the West side of America through the South sea, & they giving assistance to the Portugese's they between them have grasped yet more, although still the managing of all about Goa & those coasts, be by Portugese's, unless the King of Spain have prevailed lately so much, as to gain in that power from them But all this was first gotten, & since it is kept by the sword; howsoever that cogging lesuit 
l Contra Chytraeum ut supra.  Possevinus to make a miracle of it, do avouch the contrary. Their own stories written by 
m De gest. Eman.  Osorius & 
n Histor. rerum Indicar.  Masseus, do make it plain, & he who will but read the 
o Diensis oppugnatio.  Siege of D●…um, written by Damianus a Goes, will be satisfied for ever. Their manner is in their towns and Castles to stand on their guard against sudden assault: and if any by open hostility do in vade them, (as the great Turk & some of the country have done) they do not only strengthen themselves, with such help as they can get out of Europe, if the time do permit, but they send to the Viceroy, who draweth aid from all places within his regiment, & with the readiest diligence that he can releeveth them.  
14 This course having continued now full out a hundred years, & they being there seated so long with their wives, & with their children (whom aftter the Spanish & their own country fashion they be get a paces and the King yearly sending to them out of Europe, to no small commodity of his, by the bringing home of spice and other rich commodities of the Indies●… yea and aid not wanting to them from America, and the Isles beyond it, as the Philippinas, Manilla and some more thereabouts, they are strong in those parts, especially against the attempts of any small and petty Prince, as they all are who be in the East Indies; some king having not forty miles over in all his dominion, and no one having very much. But here the Portugese's themselves have little or nothing up into the land: but what they have is on the sea coast, and some little way about it: farther they dare not offer. Now the wondered extent of the Romish faith thus spoken of, consists in these Portugeses & the Spaniards that come to them: for as for the naturals of the country, they keep close to their heathenish belief: some worshipping the Sun, some adoring other Idols of their own. But such a fancy they carry to the religion of the Portugeses, whose mischievous subtlety & encroaching rapine is odious unto them, that scant any of them do participate of their devotion; but would gladly if they could tell how, be rid of their company, yea if they might do it by cutting all their throats. And whereas boast also is made of the uttermost parts of Africa, that is much less than the Indies; the Spaniards & Portugeses having only here & there, a castle standing upon a convenient watering place, to victual & refresh their seafaring men passing to & from the East Indies. These petty fortresses stand in diverse regions indeed, as in Mosambique, Melinde, Magadoxe, Manicongo, yet they are but very trifles in comparison, all the people of the countries being either Infidels, or such Christians as hold the faith of 
p Osor. lib. 9 Damian. a Goes de morib. Aethiop.  Prester john, but consort not with the communion of the Bishop of Rome. As for japonia how the jesuits have circumvented their simplicity I have showed before. They boast much of their conversion there, & many Epistles are by 
q Select 〈◊〉 pistol. ex India.  Maffcus collected to that purpose. But he was one of themselves; & how vaingloriously they use to lie touching their own acts in Europe, we are well instructed: therefore of those far-distant places they may tell us what tales they will, as also of their miracles there (which in the next chap shallbe discussed) & every man may believe his part. Certain it is that in japan or japania, by their cunning & cozening shows of casting out devils, they have more 
r Additam. 9: part. America●….  prevailed upon the government of the country, them in any other place of the world; & yet I may say, what man, I say not Prince or great personag, but what one hath appeared in Europe, out of all the company of the japonians or other Eastern Indians, who might publicly yield an account of his faith, & give testification by an orderly acknoweledgement of his hope, that he belongeth rightly to the flock of Christ jesus? It is not sufficient to salvation, for an ignorant person to be baptized into he cannot tell what, or to be taught by rote to mumble up a few prayers, whereof he understandeth no part, or to use a pair of beads with nothing but superstition: or to fall down before a Crucifix: when the manner of our Redemption, & the course of our justification, is no more known to him than to very beasts. And how their care is to instruct their pretended converts, in those far distant regions, may well be conceived by that, which they inform to their own countrymen living thereabout, who are much more furnished with wicked devises, leading them the ready high way to damnation, then with aught which belongeth to true Christianity. For example sake within these three or four years, 
s Ibid. p. 75.  some Hollanders passing the South sea, came near to the Island Manilla, where certain Spaniards then inhabiting, would needs entertain them with an eager fight at sea. Divers of these warriors entering the Hollanders ship were slain, & among them there were five found, who had about them certain boxes of silver. Which being opened, there were in them little rolls or schedules beset with charms or diabolical consecrations, whereby they supposed themselves safe from all weapons. For, saith the Author, they are oftentimes instructed by their Priests concerning suching●…ing tricks, whereby it cometh to pass, that by their devilish superstitions, such as have sworn faith to the Pope in these places, are much more defiled, then very they who line in the middle of Rome or Spain. With what acorns are these Nuoves Christianes' fed, when in these remote regions Spaniards themselves are dieted with such husks? This is the propagation of Christianity whereof you speak; the abusing and profaning of the Sacrament of Baptism, by communicating it to them, whose best profession is ignorance, superstition, idolatry, & wilful obstinacy against the truth, if it should be revealed unto them.  T. HILL. 
ANd to name somewhat more in particular some Countries, in which it is happily received of many, of not universally of all, but yet in many lands it is received of the greatest part of the inhabitants, in Goa, in Malabar, in Cochin, in Bazain, in Colan, in Tana, in Daman, in Ciaul, in Coranto, in Salsetta, in Pescaria, in Manar, in Travancor, in Cogiro, in Bugen, in Cicungo, in Cicugne, in Oian, in Gomotto, in Gensura, in Xichi, in Ormuz, in Ternate, in Momoia, in Ambonio, in Macazar, in Cerignano, in Siligan, in Butuan, in Pimiliran, in Camigu, in Supa, in Stan, in Bacian, in Solar, in Malacca, in Tidor, in Selebi, and in the islands of S. Thomazo, S. Domingo, Madera, & in all those innumerable Islands which the king of Spain there possesseth. So that the Catholic Roman religion hath had, and hath yet a far greater sway in the world, than any othar religion ever had or hath.  G. ABBOT. 
15 Our Papists do imagine that they have to do with none but fools, & therefore they think to serve them thereafter. They believe that if we hear a few great words lustily bombasted we will stoop sail, & 〈◊〉 sently come in, as ships under a Castle, for fear of a peal of ordinance. Such a devise was that, when to credit Abdisu the Patriarch before named, and in him the Pope's prerogative, 
s gentle. in exam. Concil. T●…dent. Sess, 21.  they gave strange & formidable names to the Bishoprics & Archbishoprics feigned to be under him, as Sirava, Hancava, Meschiara, Chiarucbia, Cuchia, Durra, Goa, Salamas, Baumar, Schiabathan, Vastan, Calicuth, Mac●…hazin, Carangol, and other such brave appellations, which being like conjuring words when any one should hear, he durst not for one days space come with in forty foot of the stake. Is not this somewhat like that of the bragging soldier, 
t Plautus in Milite glorioso.  in campis Gurgustidonijs 
Vbi Bombomachides Cluninstaredysarchides  
Erat Imperator summus, Neptune nepos.  I tell you D. Hil, such devises as this of yours, is but for children, when out of some Portugal merchants remembrances, or from the Index of some writer, or some such other mock, matter, you tell us what towns, or angels of the main, or what little islands, the Portugese's have themselves in the East Indies, ●…or some of the jesuits have gone thither, or some peddlers have been in the markets there. A town with you is a city, a city a country, a skirt of little province, is a land or a kingdom, an Island like Garnesey or Gersey, is a matter as much as Sicily or great Britain: one in the quality of a gentleman is a Prince; a petty commander like a mean West-Indian Cacike, is a potent king or Emperor. You begin with Goa as if it were some huge region, whereas it is but a 
u Maffcus Hist. Indic. li. 4.  city, appointed indeed by Albuquercius, to be the Impettall chamber for the dominion of the Portugese's in the East Indies. It standeth on the hither side of India, some thing North from Calicut, on the Western side of that great Promontory, which is nearest of all India to Ormus, and to the Persian bay or Gulf. 
u Idem lib. 1 Osor. lib. 2.  Malabar is the general name of the Country toward the bottom of the Promontory before mentioned, the chief city whereof is calicut. 
x Maf. lib 1.  Cochin is the city of a poor Prince by calicut. 
y Li. 9  Bazain a town of Cambaia, 5 or 6. days journey Nothward from Goa. 
z Lib. 2.  Coian a city distant from Cochin 24. leagues toward the South. 
a Lib. 9  Tana or Tanaba a little town near Bazain. 
b Lib. 11.  Daman another town near it, being on the coast of Cambaia; 
c Lib. 4.  Cival, or Chanla a city fast by those last spoken of. 
d Lib. 14.  Coran is the temple of Ma●…met at Ormus: but you mean 
e Lib. 2.  Coromandel in India, where it is said that S. Thomas the Apostle did long ago preach. 
f Lib 11.  Salsetta is a little Island lying near Bazain. It should seem that there is more than one of them. 
g Lib: 3. & 12  Pescaria or Piscaria is a little sea coast about the bottom of Malaca, & lieth more toward the East. 
h Lib. 12.  Manar a little Island near thereunto. 
i Lib. 12.  Travancor a small kingdom on the west side of the lowest part of Malaca. Of Cogiro, Bugen, (unless you mean 
k Lib. 12.  Bung a petty kingdom in japan) Cicungo & Cie●…gne I find no mention, euhere there be no such places, or they be so base, that no good Au●…hour doth mention them, or else you have mis-written them. 
l Lib. 3.  Oia or Oian is a mean city near Melinde in Africa. Your Gomotto perhaps is put for 
m Lib. 12.  Goto, or Gotum a small Island near japan. So I take your Gensura to be, and the rather because it is put next. Xich●…, or 
n Ibidem.  Xich●…cum, one of the three chief parts of japan. 
o Lib. 3.  Ormuz we know to be an island and city, near the entrance into the gulf of Persia. 
p Lib. 5.  Ternate is one of the five Molucco islands, and so is 
q Lib. 10.  Tidor also which anon followeth. Momoia is a town in a little Isle called Morum, Ambonio or rather 
r Lib. 5.  Amboinus is a small I'll near the Moluccos. So it 
s Lib. 10.  Macazar. Not far from thence is 
s Lib. 10.  Cetigano, you term it Cerignano, one of the islands called Celebes, Siligan is a town, Butuan, Pi●…iliran, and Camigu three things called kingdoms, but all these 
t Ibidem.  four within the Isle Mindanaus. 
u Lib. 12.  Supa is a small place near 〈◊〉 Sian, and that is an Island & town beyond the Promontory of Malaca, turning up far to the North. 
u Lib. 8.  Bacian, is one of the Moluccos. Solar or rather 
x Lib. 16.  Solor is an I'll about 300. leagues from Malaca, being 8. degrees distant from the Aequator, toward the South. 
y Lib. 1.  Malacca is a city in that Promontory of India, which was wont to be called Aurea Chersonesus, & is now termed Malaca of the city. Selebi or rather 
z Lib. 8.  Celebes is principally one Island near the Equinoctial, but other adjoining have that name communicated to them. Thus have we ended all that be near to the East Indies. The Island of S. 
a Osor. Hist. li 3.  Thomazo or S. Thomas, lieth directly under the equinoctial line, over against that part of Africa which is termed Manicongo, or rather a little higher than it. That which you name S. Domingo is it which in Latin is called 
b Pet. Mart. Decad. 1. 2.  Dominica, having that appellation given to it, because it was discovered on a Sunday, which in Latin is named Dies Dominicus. It lieth toward America but much nearer us than Hispaniola doth: and it was one of the islands where the Caribes or Cannibals did dwell, before the coming of Columbus toward the West Indies. 
c ●…d. Decad. 1. l. 6.  Madera is one of the fortunate or Canary islands, lying some few days journey south-west ward from Spain. You might if it had pleased you, have added the rest of the Canaries, and the Azores, as also all that lie near America, as Cuba and Hispaniola, and many about them; also the Philippinas, and I cannot tell what. But my conceit is that you went no farther, because the Author or Copy which you followed went no farther. For I deal plainly with you, I do not hold you guilty of the knowing where all these places be. And yet it were no huge labour, in the reading over of such an Author, as the 
d Hist. India aut select. Epistol.  jesuit Maffeus' is, to take the words here and there as he relateth the coming in of the Portugese's, or the pretended labours of his fellows. But I smell it to be borrowed from some other man, as your 
e Ration, 3.  enumeration of Heretics was from Staphilus. In which respect I call to mind how once on a newyears day in the morning, a Parish-Clarke in Oxford brought to the Minister of that Parish, certain Latin verses as a token for the New year. The Minister seeing them, before he read them said, that he thanked him for his pains, but added that he did not think, that he could have made a Latin verse. The Clerk with an humble smile looking on, did no way deny but that the verses were his own. But when the other had read them, he altered his opinion, and told him that they were taken out of a Printed book. It is true indeed saith the Clerk, but Sir, I took the pains to write them out for you. Even so much pains have you taken, ignorantly from some ignorant fellows collections, to write these names out for us.  
16. I am induced to think so, not only because you have played such pageants before, but much rather because a sober man may well think that if you had known what you did, or had had any true understanding of the matter, you would never have made such a clatter to so small a purpose. For it may well be supposed that there be no such places, as some are named by you: some other of them are so mean, as that to this day they never could find place in any map whatsoever published to the world. Only they are mentioned by one jesuite, who cannot lie; and he maketh every mean man a King: if he once parled with a jesuite he shall want no title. You have reckoned us up here one and forty names, many of them in themselves small base and inferior things, & if divers of them be ordinarily termed Kingdoms, yet the whole country is not so great as a pretty shire in England, & some of the islands are as mean as the I'll of Wight is. If you will stand on it that these be kingdoms, yet we can make you answer, that very many of the Kings of the East country, are Lords but as over moale-hils, and so it was some thousands of years agone. 
f Gen. 14. 2.  You may read of the King of Sodom, and of the King of Gomorah, as also of the King of Admah, and of the King of Zeboim, and yet all these lived within a small compass of ground. For the one and forty names which you note unto us, you may read of 
g josu. 12. 9  one and thirty Kings indeed, with whom josuah had to deal, and yet all their dominion was so within Canaan, that the territories of all their regiment, was not so much as England alone, without Scotland joined to it. And yet if an ignorant man should hear the names of all those Kings, as they are set down by josua, he would look as much about him, as one of your silly Papists doth at those here in your book. To let them therefore know how you egregiously abuse them, you have said as much as if I should speak in this sort. His Majesty of England hath a great many good subjects (I begin to give the instance in Suffex, because I hear that this Pamphlet is much in request among backward people there) as in the great city of Chichester, in Arundel, in Rye, and in many other good places there about. Also in Sandwich with all the Cinque ports and the liberties of the same, yea in the Isles of Shepy, and Tenet, with other lying at the lands end fast by Essex, yea add hereunto Hul & Newcastle upon Tine & the strong town of Barwike. And if a man should tell this to some unlettered Italian who lieth a great way hence, he might be made to wonder: but the truth were no very high matter. Thus it is with these places named, which are only cities, towns or angles standing along the sea coast, upon the shore of the Indies, and interrupted or intersorted with heathenish dominions, or else they are islands in the self same quality. And in many of these, if there were some said to be baptized 20. or 40. years agone, or if there be now but 5. Portugese's or Spaniards, which keep a shop or warehouse, yet there is the Romish faith. Which our Author who never useth but to cast at All, as it seemeth doth acknowledge, when contrary to his custom he hath an extenuation, It is happily received of many though not universal of all, And when he saith in many lands it is received of the greatest part of the inhabitants, he meaneth not that the naturals do accept of it, but the Spaniards & Portugeses have killed the greatest part of them, and now they themselves do make the mayor part. This advantage you have for your words D. Hill, but yet notwithstanding all your fraud and facing, we conclude that your Popery is not predominant as you make it, for put it altogether (if I should say nothing of that which we teach, but leave it wholly to God and his good blessing) Gentilism is yet by many degrees more than all the Papism in the world, and Mahometism in Barbary, in Turkey, in Persia, and in the dominions of all those who hold for that false Prophet doth exceed it. And yet the great propagation of Ehtnicism or Saracenisme doth not make them to be in the right; neither doth the same evince in behalf of your Roman fancies, but that only must go for truth which hath warrant out of the Scriptures.  T. HILL. 
AND worthy it is to be noted that in no land or country under heaven, ever was or is any persecution of any moment against Papists (as you term them) or against the Priests of that Religion, in regard that they be Papists or Priests made by authority from the Sea of Rome, but only in England. And in very deed the whole world doth wonder, that little England dare and is not ashamed to do that, which never was seen in the world before: for let a Seminary Priest (as they call him) keep him out of England, and he is safe enough in any region under heaven. This I say by the way, for that it grieveth me at the very heart, to bear that my dear country doth persecute that religion which all the world hath joyfully embraced, or at the least doth willingly tolerate, as though she were wiser than all the world beside is, or ever hath been, or then all her Elders. Or as though English Protestants known and saw more, than all the whole learned men of Christendom have done for so many ages together.  G. ABBOT. 
17 IT should seem that by this time in the showing of your men, you have spent all your powder: for from hence to the end of this present Reason, you talk like a good fellow, in more familiar sort, leaning on the nose of your piece, somewhat angry, but will not fight. How your Pseudo-Catholikes in England live afflicted and persecuted, not only our books 
h Execution of justice. A Letter to Mendoza.  declaring a truth, but the matter itself sensibly doth speak. They lie well, and they farewell, and many of them do purchase and increase their livelihood, yea some by your leave find means to extraordinary lasciviousness. The bigger sort of them are by the monthly mulct upon them so punished, that besides that they have for much idle expense, they can by bribes keep spies about great personages, they can give large gifts to win their private purposes, they can have their cursetors all the Realm over to give and take intelligence, they can relieve Prisoners, they can maintain divers jesuits, like such gallants and swaggerers as requireth for each some hundred pounds by the year. And yet in searches sometimes more ready money and good gold is, found in their custody, then ordinary men of their quality can be masters of. To these things they attain by keeping no house or very little, under a show that for their conscience they pay all away. I think that you yourself will confess, that in Queen Mary's days men of our Religion could not live so quietly, although they had nothing to object against them, but that they believed not the article of Transubstantiation. Now for Priests, that they have been more looked unto, the reason is sppatant. The examples of 
i 1. Reg. 18. 40.  Elias ill entreating Baal's Priests, & of 
k 2. Reg. 23. 20.  josias so serving other of like disposition, as also of 
l Cap. 10. 25  jehu proceeding in the same course show that wolves and destroying foxes if they will not keep from the flock, must be woorried: that is, must be cut off by the sword of the magistrate. Otherwise shall the perishing souls of the flock be required at the civil shepherds hand, as well as they are exacted of the spiritual pastor for negligence. But how rough the state generally hath been to such, may be conjectured by their hasting hither, fifty in a 
m D. Elyes notes on the Apology fol. 211.  year out of Rheims alone. Also by the sending away of Harte, Pilcher and many other, where of some were already condemned, & other by law were to suffer: yet their lives were granted unto the & they only were banished their country, from whence they had voluntarily exiled themselves for diverse years before. thirdly by the keeping of so many of them at Wishbich & Framingl●…ā, some for 10. years, some for 20, where all was so to their will, that they had leisure to fall out who should be 
n Relation of stirs at Wisbich.  greatest among them, & sit highest at table, yea to 
o Apolog, cap. 6.  feast, to bowze, to game, to fight, yea as since it is expressed in plainer words, to fall top dicing, drunkenness yea and whoredom, fit exercises for men who would be taken to be designed martyrs. And if some few of them have suffered, let all sober men judge, whither the state had not cause to proceed so with them, whose minds were discovered so plainly beyond the seas. The excommunication of Pius the 5. was procured at Rome by the instigation of some of our own countrymen, & thereupon a rebellion was raised. 
q Saunder. lib. 7. de visib Monar. Concertat. li●…cle Cathol. in Angl. Part 1.  Felton is commended for fastening up the Bull at the Bishop of London's gate. And it is held as his praise, that he called the Queen no otherwise but by the name of the pretended Queen. Sanders also ordinarily useth that phrase against her. And it is held as a glory in Doctor Story, that writing to his wife he bestowed no other title on her. Such as suffered for the rebellion in the Noth are termed 
r Ibidem.  Martyrs, & so is 
s Brist. Motiv. 1●….  Felton also. These matters are compiled together in the book called, 
s Edit. Anguste ●…reviror. 1588.  Concertatio Ecclesiae Catholica in Anglia, out of which I will gather two or three flowers more. It is said as a praise; of Everard Hanse, that being asked of the Bull of Pope Pius he answered, I hope he did not err in his sentence. He said I hope, because that declaration was not doctrinal, and therefore there might be an error. Speaking of james Laborne executed at Lancaster, it is related as a Catholic act in him, that 
t E. Saunder. de Schism. Lib 3.  he took two exceptions, why Lady Elizabeth was not Queen, one by reason of her birth, the other for that she was deprived by the Pope. Mentioning the story of one Fen, it is urged that the dignity of St. Peter's successor was conferred upon a profane woman. Afterward these verses are set on her sacred Majesty. 
Sathanico praesul Calvini imbuta veneno est  
Elizabeth, diraquè impietate tumet.   
And lastly this is bestowed upon her, Elizabetha scelerum caput. These things being written by divers of them beyond the seas, do argue what spirit was among our Divines there. If we will have more proof of the faithful hearts of our male contented fugitives, toward our late Princess, let us look on the words closely couched of the Rhemists in divers places: As that about 
u Annot, in 2. joh. 10.  Heretics excommunicated by name, what things men are to withdraw from them. And let the traitorous actions of them in our Realm, expound that covert speech of jezabel 
u In Apoc. 2. 20.  elsewhere. But in steed of all, let the Action attempted against this kingdom here in the year 1588., speak, which was vehemently urged by our Priests abroad, and the people to the best of their power fitted for it at home.  
18 If these generalities do not yet satisfy, them let it be remembered, where these Seminary Priests are brought up, & how, flying from their native soil in the highest discontentment, they go into the dominions of the Pope & King of Spain, to whom howmuch England hath been beholding, a blind man may almost see. At their expense they are maintained, who in behalf of their charges look for some service again. And under whom have they their education? Under men jesuited as now D. Worthington the rector of the College at Douai is, or under the jusuits themselves, of whose virtues I have before spoken. To their Governors by oath they own obedience, & of likelihood at their return they take their direction from them. Now what manner of men these be, Allen who was long the rector of the College at Rheims, & Persons now Governor of the Seminary at Rome, may declare. Concerning Allen, our Secular Priests of late displaying the jesuits, do labour to extenuate the malice and poisonful behaviour of that hungry Cardinal, but his works are extant, testifying that there was never any man more virulent in heart against the state of England then he was. 
x Apolog. cap. 11.  Persons reckoneth up four of his books, The Answer to the English justice, The defence of the twelve martyrs in one year, The Epistle allowing Sir William Stanleyes' delivery up of Daventry, And the Declaration against her Majesty and the State in the year 1588. In the first of these, the 
y Chap. 2.  protestation of Laborn before mentioned, is remembered; that by other Papists, as occasion should serve, it might be imitated. And the whole treatise howsoever it seem to be more closely conveyed then ordinary, is forced with pestilent calumniations: Of the same nature is the whole subject of the second, penned of purpose to direct men's affection from the state. The third is a little Pamphlet, short but not sweet, maintaining the treasonful action of Sir William Stanley by many an un-christian censure, & most slanderous imputation. As for 
z Allens answer 1584.:  example, That our country is fallen into Atheism. That the Queen's confederacies were only & always with Christ's enemies. That the wars of the English in the low Countries were sacrilegious wars, and of a heretical Prince. And because he will be like himself, he goeth on, That all the acts in this Realm since the Queen was excommunicated and deposed from regal dignity are void: therefore she can denotence no war, neither may her subjects there serve her, when a Prince is become an open Rebel to the See Apostolic He wish●…h that the rest of the English soldiers would do as they with Sir William Stanley did. He saith that the English take no quarrels in hands, but for the dishonourable defence of Rebels, Pirates and Infidels. I do of purpose here omit many vile and execrable speeches by him added, lest the very rehearsing of them might justly be offensive. But the wicked man did make no conscience to stain his whole country with horrible defamations. I would hear any Secular in the world who can excuse this cursed fellow. The fourth was printed in English, and should have beened vulged, if the spaniards could have set footing in England in the year 1588. He who list to see it, may find it word for word in 
a Belgic. Histor l. 15.  Meterranus. Among other matters there are these. Our Sovereign then being, is called the Pretended Queen, and the present usurper. She must be deprived of the administration of the kingdom. She is an Heretic, a Schismatic, excommunicate, contumacinis, usurping the kingdom against all right as for other causes so because she had not the consent of the great Bishop of Rome. She moved the Turk to invade Christendom. She hath set at sale and made a ma●… of Laws and rights. Some of her facts make her uncapable of the kingdom, some other make her unworthy of life. Therefore Pope sixtus the fifth doth renew the excommunication against her, and doth deprive her of her title and preteaces to the kingdoms of England and Ireland, declaring her illegitimate and an vs●…per, and absolving all her subjects from the ●…th of sidelity toward her. Then he chargeth all to withdraw their ●…de from her, that worthy punishment may be taken of her, and that they ●…e themselves with the Duke of Parma. Also it is proclaimed lawful ●…y hands upon upon the Queen, and a very great reward is promised to those who do so. A safe conduct is then given to as many as will bring ●…ny w●… like provision to the Spanish camp, and to all who would assist that enterprise, the Pope doth by Indulgence give full pardon and plenary remission of all their sins. If these things do not sufficiently show the viperous mind of this lewd Cardinal against his Prince & Country, nothing in the world can manifest it. His dis Englished woolvish desire was, that his natural place of education, for which the old heathens would have lost ten thousand lives, should have been in the everlasting bondage of the Spaniard. Our Seculars then commending and excusing him to their powers, are pitifully out: but the error of them, and of some English gentlementravailers was this, that they imagined him in his latter years to be altered; when indeed it was nothing else, but that after the year 88, his hopes being deluded, and neither Pope nor Spaniarde nor all their adherentes knowing how to remedy or recover that inestimable loss, and incomparable dishonour unto them, his heart was as good as broken; and he would seem more desirous to show all tolerability, to single men of our English nation, that he might have some grace with them, since he began to have so little with the Spaniard. But doubtless venom had so putrisied him, that although he were willing to paint himself without, he was quite rotten within. And whither for want of his pretty staruling pension from Spain, after that illustrious foil, he might not be much humbled in the height of his proud thoughts, it is hard to tell. Such a manner of man was one of the fathers of the Seminary.  
19 As for Persons the present Rector, his mind is nothing inferior to the others, albeit his degree be in a rank behind him. But that is his own fault too, for his 
b The copies of certain discourses extorted fol. 116.  fellows here tell us, that it was reported here in England that all the boys at Saint Omars had conspired to make Persons a Cardinal, and had written such effectual letters to the Pope for it, that he, the General of the jesuits, and all his friends in Rome, were little enough to keep him from being a Cardinal. Well his heart for England is as good, as any of his Predecessors. 
c Answer to things concerning him in the Apology.  Doctor Bagsh●…we sayeth directly that he persuaded the Students at Rome, that they should have at state and all; for with state-medling they could but die: and die they should without state meddling, if they were taken. If we will not trust that Doctor, as one professing some hostility toward him, let his Greene-coate concerning the Earl of Leicester, & another Commonwealth of his touching another great and worthy man that dead is, speak in their master's behalf. His Doleman showeth him to have nothing in him, but bastard English blood. And that is the more manifested, by his labouring the Students in Spain, and at Rome, to consent to the title of the Lady Infanta. What affection he cariyed to our late most blessed Sovereign, his short but substantial approving of the judgement of Allen, Sanders, Bristol and Stapleton touching the Bull of Pius the 5. in his 
d Cap. 4.  Wardword doth declare. It is also laid to his charge, that he solicited a man of 
e Quodl. 7. 2  high place in this kingdom, to be a close Pensioner to the late king of Spain to further his invasision. He 
f Apol. c. 12.  challengeth to himself these books, The reasons of refusal of going to the Protestants Churches, the Epistle of persecution both in Latin and English, the defence of the Censure against M. Charke: and these show that all his wits and study were then bend, on the one side to supplant the religion that we profess, but on the other side to defame the honour of his Prince, and country, and of all the chief officers of justice in the same, and with such suttletics to steal away the hearts of many subjects from them. His resolutions 
g Solutiones 〈◊〉. & P.  in his pretended Cases of conscience, as they are impious, so are they most pernicious to the state. But the less they are there to be wondered at, since he openly laboureth in 
h 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. 1●….  his Apology, to maintain falsehoods and lying dissembling A quivocations, with little less than blasphemy to our most holy Saviour. His Manifestation hath many proper things in it, as being that where he showeth himself without a vizard. This is he who hath had in Spain, and now hath at Rome the training up of those who are and must be our Seminarye Priests; the only Archtraitor now remaining alive, and to be balanced by none unless peradventure, & it is but peradventure, D. Gifford may be the man. I might add to these, as great men at Douai in their times, Bristol and Stapleton. The one showeth himself a rebel in heart by his 
i Cap. 15.  Motives, which book D. Allen did allow to the Press. And how far the other that is old choleric & bitter Stapleton, (the 
k Apol. c. 9  learnest man living of our Country, if we will believe Fa. Persons) was engaged in these matters, his manifold virulent aspersions scattered in his books, against his natural Prince and some personages of high worth, do abundantly testify. Such are the teachers, Readers, and Governors of the Seminaries, and such an honest man is Weston at Douai now if he be yet at Douai, where no doubt they train up their Students in good meditations. Which I may the rather say, if that be true which 
l Collier.  one of their own company delivered to me to be so of his own knowledge, while he was there in D. Barrets time. As our Students in our Colleges have used to make verses, and to fix them up on the skreenes or elsewhere publicly, on the day of her late majesties coming to the Crown, so they had sometimes at Douai when they made verses in like sort, & whither on the day before named I do not remember. In this case, the invention of one of their gracious strudents was, to speak of the three furies in hell, Allecto, Megaera, and Tisiphone, whose virtues when with his Poetry he had described, he addeth at last that there was now of late a fourth come in, Furiarum Quarta, whose description he maketh accordingly. And this lewd devise was much commended by the Superiors there, albeit he plainly designed her, for whom by the laws of God & man, they were rather bound to have spent their best blood, then that the least dishonourable thought concerning her should have entered into their h●●t. And who will wonder that the fruits of such persons do show what the root is whereupon they do sit. We may add to these things abroad, the experience which we have had at home, of babington's, Somerviles, Squires and such ungodly miscreants, who incited by Ballard, and other sent from the Seminary, have attempted most horrible treasons, to the hazarding of the happiness of this whole kingdom. And were not our state blind, if they could not guess the mind of the soldiers by such captains, the disposition of such scholars by their tutors, the affection of the Priests by such Superiors, especially since they daily saw in our own land, that such as had to do with these emissaries and secret creepers, did testify that they had touched some 
m Eccls 13. 〈◊〉  pitch, being quickly alienated if not in open action, yet in apparent affection from the rest of the Realm? And might not all religious folks have groaned in their souls, & all good subjects have lamented in their hearts, if some severe proviso had not been made, to restrain the audacious coming in, and the ravenous dissipations of persons so intending mischief? It should have been an unrecompensable weakness to have permitted such incendiaries to bring all to combustion, and our magistrates in the mean time, to have stood by the houses of themselves & their neighbours being on fire, and to have thought it a pretty thing to stand and warm themselves by the flame. But they being inspired by a better spirit, did make good & wholesome laws, inhibiting the approaching of such dangerous guests, or if they would not forbear, paying them the wages due for their work. Ex malis moribus bonae nascuntur leges. Ill manners breed good laws. And if England alone have received such bad measure from unnatural bred English, who can blame the Magistrates and lawmakers of England, if by special ordinances they provide for the safety of that charge, which is committed to them, which cannot be but by cutting off such malefactors. When other kingdoms have been so much burnt, they will dread the fire: when other nations have been so bitten, they will beware of dogs teeth. What other countries would do if there were cause, you may guess by France, which standing yet on terms of Popery, have removed the jesuits, so that if they will come there it is on hazard of their life. I will set down the words; as they be in the Decree of the Parliament of Paris against them, that no man may doubt in that case: 
n jesuits Ca ●…h lib 3. cap. 18.  The Court doth ordains that the Priests and Students of the College of Clai●…mont, and all other calling themselves of that Society of jesus, as corrupters of youth and disturbers of the common quiet, enemies of the King and State, shall avoid within three days after the publication of this present sentence, out of Paris and other Cities, and places where their Colleges are, & fifteen dates after out of the Realm, upon pain, wheresoever they shall be found, the said term expired, to be punished at guilty and culpable of the crime of high Treason. And afterward, It forbiddeth all the kings subjects to send any scholars to the Colleges of the said Society being out of the Realm, there to be instructed, upon the like pain to incur the crime of high 
o This decree was made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…mb. 〈◊〉.  treason. Thus the Papists of France deal with the jesuits, who are the bringers up, brethren and cousin germans of our Seminarians. If they keep them out of France they are not touched or reached after, and so here it is with the Idolatrous massing Priests sent from the Pope of Rome who loveth us unmeasurably, and from the dominions of the King of Spain, or those who depend upon him. We need them not, we send not for them, and therefore if they come, it is upon their own peril.  
20 Yet because this proceeding seemeth to you to be so hard, & in your books in England & elsewhere published, you so exclaim of the rigorousness of our kingdom in this behalf, I will a little remember you, what milder men of your own Seminaries have published in this matter, acknowledging that justly by books & enterprises the State hath been exasperated against you. I confess that they lay all the blame on the jesuits, & jesuited: but those we can hardly distinguish from men otherwise minded▪ And if we could it were to small purpose, since the followers of the Archpriest are all jesuited, & as M. Persons saith they are 
p Apolog. cap: 8:  300. to 10. of the other. Since than the sway & sweep goeth the other way, & for the adverse part we have no warrant but that they may leave their best goodness when themselves will, which Watson & Clerke have lately ex emplified, it is best to let the law stand against all, leaving the forbearance of strict execution to the wisdom of those in authority, who incline to mercy where it is fit to be extended, One, 
q A: C▪ in his 2: letter: pag. 42:  who although he be not a Priest, yet was brought up in the Seminary, saith thus: At the Queen's coming in many of us were too soon turned so jesuitish and Spanish, to the attempting of disloyal plots against her State & person, that she was driven to trust wholly to her Protestants holding us all suspect. And 
r Ibid. p: 29:  again: The jesuits outrage Princes, as murdering the last French King, & had done our dear Sovereign sundry times if God's hand had not been the stronger. Another 
s Reply to the Apology: cap: 17:  telleth us, that in the Colleges erected by the means of Parsons, Priests & other have been induced to subscribe to foreign titles, yea & to come in person against their own country. He who answereth the manifestation supposed to be the writing of People, acknowledgeth that D. 
s Fol. 35.  Saunders his works De visibili Monarchia, & De schismate Anglic, contain so many erreverent speeches, & the divulging of such odious matters against her Mr. & her noble ●…genitours, as the untruths of some & the incertainty of others considered, could not but irritat the most Christian Catholic & patiented Prince in the world. A 
t Fol: 3●…  little before he telleth us, Neither for aught I see, doth the State wake show of persecution quoad vitam et necen, for matter merely of religion and conscience, but upon pretence of treason, or attempts against her majesties person or state, or (at the least) upon the fear thereof. But yet more directly he proceedeth, 
u Fol. 31. & 32  I would but ask Fa. Persons (because I know him to be a great Statist) this one question, whither in his conscience he did think, there be any Prince in the world, be he never so Catholic, that should have within his dominions a kind of people, amongst whom diverse times he should discover matters of treason, and practices against his person, and state, whither he would permit those kind of people, to live within his dominions, if he could be otherwise rid of them, & whither he would not make strait laws, and execute them severely against such offenders, yea and all of that company and quality, rather than he would remain in any danger of such secret practices and plots? I think Fa. Persons will not for shame deny this. Then the fault is not in the Prince and State for being cautious, but in the Romanists for being pragmatical in dangerous attempts. I will join to these the testimony of M. Watson who is copious in this point. He saith that the 
u In the preface to the Quodlibers.  Seminaries at first, made the jesuits cause, attempts, intentes, practices and proceed their own in every thing: their plots and practices they seemed at first to defend, or at least to wink at. Hence they were entangled by penal laws justly made against them equally as against the jesuits. In another 
x Quod. 8. 9  place thus: At the affliction of Catholics in England hath been in very deed extraordinary, and many an innocent man lost his life, so also hath the cause thereof been extraordinary, and so far beyond the accustomed occasions of persecution given to any Prince in Christendom or monarchy, that is, or ever was in the world to this hour as rather it is to be wondered at (all things duly considered) that any one Catholic is left on live in England, then that our persecution hath been so great: for name one nation (I know none can) under heaven, where the subjects (especially if they were Catholics) ever sought the death of their Sovereign, (though of a different religion from them) the conquest of their native land, the subversion of the state, the depopulation of the weal public, the alteration and change of all laws, customs and orders, and in few the utter devastation, desolation and destruction of all the ancient inhabitants of their land, etc. Now if this may be said of the laity of the English Papists, what censure may be given of the Priests, the urgers and instigatours of all these things? He speaketh elsewhere more particularly of the Seminary Priests: 
y Quod. 9 4  How can they expect any favour when they are taken? none can deny that their coming over is to increase the number of Catholics: and that Fa. Persons reigneth, and hath the whole direction at this day for all the missions that are for England. How then (alas) how may her Majesty and the state conclude against them? What laws can be too extreme to keep them out of the land? Or if they will needs come in, what severity for the execution of laws against them can be more than sufficient? Into what gulf are we plunged? Nay into what an obloquy are we plunged? Nay into what an obloquy must the Catholic Church of Rome grow, in that the execution of Priesthood and treason are now so linked together by the jesuits in England, as we cannot exhort any to the Catholic faith, but dogmatizando, in so doing, we draw him in effect to rebellion? You see that this writer doth not sumble nor doubly budgen, but delivereth his opinion roundly. And if any one should except that these be the assertions of private and single men, he may see a treatise put out by joint consent of diverse Seculars, and written of purpose to clear the proceed of the State in England from bloody cruelty, or un-advised rigorousness in cutting of such rotten members. You may judge the contents thereof by the Title which is this 
z Edit: An. 1601.  Important considerations, which ought to move all true and sound Catholics, who are not wholly jesuited, to acknowledge without all equivocations, ambiguities or shift, that the proceed of her Majesty and of the State with them, since the beginning of her highness reign, have been both mild and merciful. By this time if there be any wit or sense left in you, you may put up your pipes for complaining of the hard usage of Priests sent hither from the Seminaries. I have been the more large in this argument, partly to stop your clamorous mouth, and partly to satisfy weak persons either on our or your side; and not least of all to free the honourable parliaments and Magistrates taking order against such venomous vermin, from the forged imputations and scandalous defamations in this particular laid against them, & by name of him 
a Supposed to: be D. Worthington.  who falsely reporteth the suffering of sixteen pretended martyrs in one year, that is the year of jubilee, 1600. Now I follow your steps again where I left.  
21. When you fall to daring, you show yourself but a simple man. There is one by whose help David did dare leap 
b Psa. 18. 29 34.  over a wall, and to attempt with his arms to break a bow of brass, by whose protection in a righteous cause, that England which by a diminution you call little, doth dare to stand against the strongest enemy that it hath. What should hinder it good Sir, to cut of lewd persons, (wherewithal God is well pleased) when the late Queen thereof at her entrance to the Crown, did not fear all the Potentates in the world, nor the backwardness of many of her own subjects, nor the combining almost of all her own Clergy, but that in the name of God, and in the undaunted confidence of his maintaining of his own truth, she did spread the banner of the Gospel, and without discouragement did persist in that resolution till the day of her death, the English fugitives, and the Irish Malcontents, yea the Pope and Spaniard contriving to the uttermost to impeach it? Why should not this our country dare to do well, when by the singular favour of God blessing his true religion in it, it hath been able to repel that invincible Navy, to sack many of the king's towns in the West Indies, to batter his Groin in Galitia, to march with ensign displayed almost an hundred miles in the heart of his country, to knock at his gates of Lisbon, to sink his fleet at Cales, and to burn that town at pleasure, the Spaniards looking on, & scant offering to strike one blow. The time hath been that this England which is such a little more in your eye, hath sent 
c Holinshed in Rich. 1 & Edw. 3. & Hen. 5. & 6.  a mighty army as far as to Palestina, hath had two kings prisoners in it at once, and two of her own Kings crowned in Paris. And he is blind who seethe not▪, that at this time it hath decayed no part of her ancient valour or worth; Then do you never fear but it may dare to execute such companions of yours, as will here disturb the peace of the Church & Commonwealth. Now that it grieveth your pretty heart that you have not your will among us, I do verily believe: and do not you think that wolves & bears do much grieve, that they cannot come at the sheepfolds, but the shepherds will meets with them? As our 
d Luk. 23. 28  Saviour sometime said to the women of Jerusalem, that they should not weep for him, but for themselves and their children, so we may bid you not to grieve for the evil case of England, but to be sorry & weep for your sins and most malicious blindness, that God without his more future mercy should give you over to a reprobate sense so as to fly truth and to hate it, to bark against the light, to carry undutiful thoughts to your Superiors, and un-natural to your country, where the Lord be praised for it, there is nothing unhappy, unless it be that it hath hatched into the world such vipers & such monsters, who care not what become of her, so that Satan may be king, & Antichrist may be general. How your brethren are persecuted with plenty ease & abundance, not long since I told you. The wiser sort of them cannot but acknowledge, as even now you heard, that no Prince under the heaven, being so zealous in God's cause, & having sustained such indignities at the hands of many of that faction, as our late most Christian Queen had done, would have proceeded with that mildness. For the manner of your speech you are now returned to your old custom again. Here is nothing but all'all. How all the world hath embraced your profession, I have showed you before. The ancienter part of the Primitive Church knew almost nothing of it; the latter part of the first 600. years had some weeds coming up in it, but the good corn overtopped it. Afterwards it grew faster, but the Greek Church did balance it, Mahomatise did emulate it, Gentilism did infinitely exceed it: in the West, true religion had fault ours, in themselves many; but compared with the Antichristian troop but few, & now of late the vizard of her holiness is pulled of, & a main part of Chri stendone do see that it is but a painted 
e 2. King: 9 30.  jezabel. That some where it is tolerated we deny not: but it may be where the 
f 2. Sa. 3, 39  sons of Zarvia are too strong for David, or for other special reasons best known to the governors,: but of all likelihood it is where the embracers of it have learned to be so temperate, as not to complot for desolation of those countries where they are tolerated, & upon a hope that those who are now perverted by error, may be converted to truth. But our Princes have learned to walk in the ways of 
g 2. King: 18  Hezekiah & josiah, & know that they are not commended by the holy Ghost, who suffered the high places to stand in their dominions. That England while she followeth the prescript of the God of wisdom, should think that she doth more wisely, than some other who are drunken with the harlot's enchantments, is no greater a fault than that of Davids was, who could say, By 
h Psal: 119: 98 99: 100  thy commandments thou hast 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wiser th●… 〈◊〉 enemies, And I have bad 〈◊〉 understanding th●…n all my teachers, And again, I understand more than the ancient, because I kept thy precepts. The same objection which you make, was made long agone by the proud Scribes▪ and Pharisees, that they thought one way, and the simple 
i joh. 7: 48: 4●…:  accursed people were of another mind. For our Elders we shall have time to come to you toward the end of this Chapter. And what you say of all the learned men of Christendom: for so many ages together is a Popish brag; for as before I have showed, there were men of singular learning, who saw the horrible abuses of the Synagogue of Rome, and mourning in their souls to behold them, wrote against them, taught against them, prayed against them: and many utterly separated themselves from the 
k Numer: ●…6: ●…26:  tents of Core and Dathan, labouring to keep their conscience undefiled, although for so doing, they endured contempt and torture, and imprisonment, & loss of life. Your own books bear witness of them, as formerly I have showed.  T. HILL. 
AND I pray you tell me, if an hearb●… should be presented to you to 〈◊〉, that all learned Physicians for a thousand ye●…res together, have judged to her 〈◊〉, and only some one or two of later years have begun to teach the contrary, without actual experience whether it be so or no, but only by discourse and now arguments of their own brain, would you abstain to eat it or no? Or if an action should be offered you there in England, which by all old Lawyer's judgement of former times hath been taken for high treason Ipso facto, and consequently loss of life and laudes, though some newer Lawyers were of contrary opinion that now it is not, would you not look twice before you did leap, except you were out of your wits? But in this other case, although all ancient Divines and Doctors, for about a thousand years together, have taught the Catholic Roman religio●…▪ ●…ee true indeeds, and only F●…iar Luther a lose Apostata, and Sir john Calvin●… a seare-backe Priest for Sodo●…ye, have begun in our days to teach the contrary, for fear of being punished by the Magistrates of the said Catholic religion, for wicked and bad life, ye will the Protestants 〈◊〉 ou●… and cast at all, and will hazard He●… and all Etornity of torments thereon depending. UUho will deny this to be headlong and harebrain dealing? Surely this Universal consent of Christendom against two or three so 〈◊〉 ●…hours of novelties, are more than sufficient to induce any 〈◊〉 of reason to look about him, and to consider what he doth, and whether he may adventure his soul upon such inequality of testimonies, as this is between two or three Novellantes, and twenty millions of holy and grave ancients, & no doubt 〈◊〉 West minster hall, this difference of witnesses would 〈◊〉 with a●… equal and discreet judge or 〈◊〉.  G. ABBOT. 
22 SImilitudes are familiar: but if you had ever read any thing touching the Principles of Rhetoric, they are of no force at all, where men have to do, with a renitent Auditor, of which sort peradventure you may take us be. But as learned Physicians as any who gain▪ said it, found this that you speak of, to be Mithridate, and an Antidote or especial preservative against poison. And now there be more than one or two, who have studied this point, and that not only for the theoric, but for the Practic also▪ and their arguments are not new, but fetched from the patriarchs and Prophets and Apostles. Our Physicians have observed that rule of the 
l Diod. Si●…: Antiquit: lib: 2: 3:  Egyptians, who in all their cures looked to their book, and by that they did heal or pronounce incurable. Yours left the book: and thereby as they destroyed their patientes, so it is to be feared, that after the manner of the Egyptian Law, they lost their own lives for their labour. And that which you mention concerning Lawyers is just of the same quality: for very great Lawyers did differ about this title in question: and then it appeared that those of our side did look to the lawgiver, and had recourse to his words; whereas your men locked up the book, and professed that they could say by heart so much as was expedient. But there their memory did fail them. Now as the former were out, so such as came after, and believed their blind masters, were more out then their predecessors. The Romish dictator took the advantage by this, and finding that his best profit was to be his own ●…arver, and make laws for himself, added what he would, and intrepreted as he list, and if he would go astray, (whereunto he was most ready) his pety-foggers must not question it, but they must admire him and adore him, since this stood as an Oracle, that if the 
m Gratian●… part. 1. Distinct. 40. Si Papa.  Pope should lead innumerable souls to hell with him, he must not be capitulated with; neither might the question be once asked, Domine cur si●… facis? there was store of such Lawyers when CHRIST came into the world: but they had a 
n Luc. 11. 46.  Woe by him denounced against them. And yet when our Saviour turned all their constitutions upside-down, and gave new interpretations of the Law, one might before the people have used the same argument which is here made: All the great Clerks, the Scribes and Pharisees, for so many ages have taught you one way, and this man teacheth you another way, whom therefore will you believe? our Saviour would in this case have bidden men look to the Original: 
o Math 19 8  from the beginning it was not so. When the Saracens possessed 
p C●…l. Aug. eurio. Sarrac: Histor. lib: 1.  Granado and that part of Spain which is about it, for seven hundred years 〈◊〉 if a Christian should have come to have pleaded the title of that Kingdom, they might have produced Lawyers who should have advouched, that for so many descents, & that time out of mind their Ancestors had enjoyed it. But King Ferdinand who expelled them thence, might better reply, that the Christians had a more ancient right unto it: that the Saracent were but encroacher and usurpers▪ and there were books of authentical record, which would without partiality assign every man his own. Things go much by opinion, till truth be displayed. How many learned men did err in that conceit, th●… a 
q Bodin: Method: cap 4:  Sw●…nne before his death did sing most sweetelye? The 
r Petr: Martyr. D●…ad: 〈◊〉: 3:  Castilians when they came first into the West Indies thought it had been poison to have eaten of roasted serpents and yet afterwards they found it to be most dainty meat. When matters for a long space have been mistaken, and at last they be discovered, it is no commendation to dwell in old oversightes, but it is best with advise to reform them. 
s Ad Pomp●…ium:  Custom without truth, is a●…nesse of error ●…aith Saint Cyprian. Touching your Lawyers then we say, that if they take truth to be treason, they are more afraid than hurt. And as for your Physicians, they are but like the 
s 〈◊〉 Chron: 16. 1●….  Physicians of Asa: for while more trust is reposed in them, then in GOD, many a good patient dieth under their hands. That which they report to be poison, would save and restore the sick o●…ll affected person.  
23 When you have a little ranged among Lawyers and Physicians, because we should think that you have heard of all the three faculties, you return to your own profession, and and there as a man who say all, but indeed know little of ancient. Doctors and Divines, and smally acquainted with the monuments of the Church▪ you profess that for a thousand years nothing hath been ●…aught but the uncatholike Roman Religion, till Luther and calvin's time; which is as true a speech, as you are a truth-speaking man, and that is never a whit; all the Pope's Apprentice being bound but to a lying occupation. Your slanders against these holy men are so well known unto us, that in respect of you we think them rather to be laughed at, then to be refured; albeit in regard of other simple souls whom you would abuse, we are otherwise minded. When our Saviour had long before lived, and died, and ascended into heaven, julian Libanius, and Porphi●…y had inventions mough against him, and he could not escape without that slander that he was a 
t Augustin. in johan. Tract. 3●….  Magician When Narcissus a godly virtuous person lived, he was by three false witnesses speaking against him, and using 
u Euseb Eccle H●…stor: 6. 8.  grievous imprecations toward themselves if they spoke not truth, accused of a heinous crime. It was constantly given out of 
u Socrat: 〈◊〉. ●…0: lib. 2▪ 1●…: Theodor: 1: 26: 28: 30▪ Soom▪ 2: 2●…: 22: 2●…: Athans●… Apolog●…  Athanasius, that he was an adulterer, a Necromancer, a murthe●…r: & this was so assevered by the A●…ians, that although many did see Arsenius whom he was reported to have slain, or caused him to be made away, yet they would scant believe their own eyes: but it was not once to be doubted, but that by the means of Athanasius who intended to use it in Coniu●…tion, one of the hands of the said Arsenius was cut off, although he himself stood before them, and had both his hands whole and untouched. Yea a harlot was brought face to face, which charged him to have committed fornication with her: & yet she was so far from knowing him, that when another took on him to be Athanasius, she not being therein mistress of her craft, charged him to have done that, which she purposed to lay on Atanasius. Since these & the like matters have been in times past, it is no marvel that the Devil of late should stir up Cochleus or B●…lsec or Staphilus, against two such lamps of the Christian world as Luther & Calvine were, who made such breaches into his strongest fortresses, and freed so many prisoners from him. He whom you term an Apostata, was no otherwise such a one for leaving your Babylon, than Saint Paul might have been said to be, for relinquishing the 
x Phil. 3: 5:  Pharisees, whom a long time he had followed. And whereas you call him lose, his behaviour all his time was strict and severe, industrious and studious in penning and preaching much. The heathen 
y Orat pro: M. Caelio.  Tully could have told you, that he who would be an Orator must cut of all licentiousness, yea his needful recreations with his most entire friends, judge if Luther did not so, who hath left remaining after him such volumes of books, as few men in any age have left more. But he rubbed the Pope to the quick: and a horse which is gawled will wince. And it was another of his faults, that he touched the Monks bellies, as 
z Carion: Chr●…ucts a Melan. l. 5.  Eras●… said, and therefore blame not them & their friends, if they do their best to lash him. One while with 
a Lib 4. Chronograph.  Genebrard●… he shall be the grand Antichrist, or the next member to him, because Luther (as he saith) in Hebrew, maketh 666. yet by & by afterward, the 
b In Apoe. 13. 1●….  Rhemists of their gracious bounty and singular integrity, profess to discharge him, and quit him of that honour. While he was a Friar at Witemberge, he was a man without exception, passing towardly and learned, yea fit to take the highest degree in that University, that is to say, a Doctourshippe in Divinity; but since he came out of Sodom, it is now written of him, that 
c Persons censure on M Char●…e.  before he was a Friar, he was stricken in a meadow with a thunderbolt, and being so frighted he put himself into a Monastery. And there afterwards reading in the Church the Gospel of the third Sunday in Lente, of the deaf and dumb Devil thrown out by CHRIST, he suddenly fell down upon the pavement, and the Devil cried horribly out of his mouth, saying, I am not, I am not dumb; I will speak yet unto the world. So shameless are men in their improbable detamations, when they once make it their summum bonum, to draw people after them they care not in what manner. There is no measure of lying: there are no bounds for untruth, whereof Luther hath well tasted, if ever any experimented it for doing GOD good service.  
24 Your scorn at Sir john Calvine may be easily returned on the best of your side, as Sir William Allen, Sir Robert Bellarmine; but we must allow you a great deal more than this. Your slander against Calvine, you take word for word, from Persons his 
d Cap. 7.  Wardword against Sir Francis hastings, to which if you please you may read the answer, discovering that odious calumniation. 
e O. E. to N. D: Cap 7:  There you may find, first that Calvine was never mass-priest, and therefore that Baal's servants did falsely object Priesthood unto him. Secondly that Bolsecus the author of this slander, did in an open Synod confess with tears, that without any ground he had laid that slander on him. thirdly that the tale is not only an unjust imputation, but a sottish and improbable Narration. For first there was never any such legal punishment by any law decreed; and secondly no Record or testimony is of any such matter, ever done or suffered by Calvine. You may there also find how truly that crimination, doth fall on the Romish generation▪ concerning which point my meaning is to forbear you for a while, and now to follow you in the present. That then these men should leave the papacy, for fear of censure from Popish Magistrates, for that whereof they were no ways, no not so much as in show guilty, it your foolish collection: and so much the more absurd, because Calvine by your lying report had been punished already. Anyethinge yvill serve the turn, to keep this slander going. You might rather have said in behalf of Luther, that since he was so esteemed by the whole University, where he abode for a great part of his time●… since his name after his death is honourable among them; since he was so protected to the hazard of all his estate, by that Noble and wise and virtuous Duke of Saxony, it is certain that no exception can be taken to his life. And for Calvine that since for many years, he lived in so reverend reputation at Geneva, where they are so strict against sin, that by the testimony of 
f Method. hist: cap. 6:  Bodine a Papist, no open wantonness, no lasciviousness is once permitted there, by reason of the austerity of their discipline, and that they have (as travellours report) so stern a law against lewd malefactors, as is scant to be found in all the world again, that an offender flying out of any country thither, shall there be subject to as grievous punishment, as he was in his own land (if he be convicted of the crime) unto which severity they are forced, lest their city standing near the dominion of so many Princes and States, should be the common receptacle and sanctuary of all fugitives and runagates, therefore john Calvin was a man of singular honesty of life, and every way untouchable in his conversation. They who are generally so strict, would not with such high acceptation have admitted, and for so many years retained a person notoriously defamed, to be the chief standdard bearer of their profession, whereas they might have had many other worthy men and without exception to have supplied that room. This tale than commeth●… from Satan the father of lyes●…. Now it is not upon these persons that we do repose ourselves, but on that which they bring out of the holy Scripture, which being the word of truth, and inspired from the Spirit of God, we fear not to adventure upon it, ourselves, our salvation, our hope of everlasting blessedness. Neither do we this headlongly or hare-brainedly as you suppose, for we are 
g Act: 26: 25  not mad O noble Festus, but with our maturest judgements and most sober understandings, we study, we confer the Scriptures in many languages, we pray to God to enlighten us, we look into the Fathers, the Histories, the Counsels, we compare old things with new, we leave no good means un-attempted to sift and found the truth: and still the farther we look, the less ground we find for Popety. Divines most ancient amongst us, do more loath it in their old age, than they did in their young. Yea we turn the books of your writers, and exemine their reasons and much ado we see they have to set up the tower of Babel, and yet it cannot be at they would ha●…e it. Nay we hinder not your learned Papists, freely at our book-seller●… to buy all books of controversies in religion, so they be not mingled with state cause●…; which course concerning the writings of our men you permit not to your learned disciples, but interdict them even to many of your Seminary Priests. And above all this, we are so far from longing to be in hell, that all who are rightly instructed among us, take as great care of the saving of their souls, as the deepest Romanist of you, with all your Pharisitical and counterfeit hypocrisy.  
25 When then you make comparison between an universal consent, and that also ancient on the one side, and a few contemptible authors of novelties on the other side, and you double it again that here be but two or three Novellants, and there twenty million of grave & holy ancients, which inequality, say you, would sway much with judges or with juries in Westminster hall, we reply that you do but talk at random after your fashion. For first Westminster hall is no place for the trial of religion. Secondly your men consent not in such sort as you speak; their agreement is not so generally spread, as a man may see throughout all Bellarmine's works, where almost in every question he citeth different opinions and judgements of writers in the Papacy: and many things wherein Romanists agree are but falsehood: and you much mistake the number of those who have and do oppugn you. thirdly what you say is ancient, is but upstarte and crept in, as a worthy 
h D. Sutclifs challenged c. 2.  man hath of late most learnedly showed, in a tract for that purpose: and for the trial of our differences we lay the Bible before you, than which I trust you will not offer to bring aught more aucient. He who out of that book can win it, in God's name let him wear it. We say with Tertullian, 
i De prescript contra haere●…  that that is of the Lord & true, which was first delivered. And four we do tell you, that multitude is not it which must decide what is truth. Among heathen men one 
k Plutari in Phocyone.  photion standing single, spoke more advisedly then all the Athenians. Should Elias be overborne because he was but 
l 〈◊〉. King. 18. 25.  one, when the Priests of Baal were many? Who was the greater company, 
m jer. 2. 〈◊〉. 4.  jeremy, or all Jerusalem, with the whole land of juda? If you had been present at the erecting of the image of 
n Dan 3. 1.  Nabuchodonosor, and had seen all the great Princes fall down before that Idol, and the three children stand up, you would have laid freely at them, Dare you strangers and captives, and boys, and upstart companions, set yourself against a million of wise men, Princes and Counselours? They should have had your voice, to have gone to the fiery Furnace. Do you not pity yourself when you reason in this fashion? Among them that be wise pendenda sunt suffragiapetius quàm numeranda, voices are to be weighed rather than to be numbered. I can say no more unto you, but that when this is your best Divinity, Lord have mercy upon you. Saint Austen would have told you, for 
o Epist. 19  all these and above all these, we have the Apostle Paul.  T. HILL. 
NEither may the Protestants now at length glory in their great number, as some of them have done, for that their Religion is there in England, and in Scotland, and some thereof in ●…aland, and in the Low Countries and in some parts of Germany, and a few of them in France, 
Apol. Eccl. Anglic.  for they never yet passed into Asia, nor into Africa, nor into Greece, nor into many places of Europe, much less into the Indies. But indeed if you rightly scan their doctrine, you shall find that your Religion Protestantine of England is no where in the world else, and that English service contained in your book of Common prayer is unknown, and condemned of all other Nations and people under the cope of Heaven. So that in very deed the doctrine of your Protestants is taught or received no where but in England, and the Puritan Doctrine of scotlan (the contrariety thereof duly considered) is no where but in scotlan, the Lutheran Doctrine taught in Denmark, is no where but in Denmark, and in a few places of Germany, the Libertine doctrine taught in the Low Countries, is no ●…here but in the Low Countries, and the like may be said of other sects.  G. ABBOT. 
26 YOU are misinformed that the Protestants do glory in their great number: they know that truth is truth, be i●… in more or few. As for M. jewel whose Apology you quote in your margin, he hath no such matter. Only where as it is objected that our Religion overturneth kingdoms and governmentes, he answereth there unto, that there 
p Apol. Eccl. Anglican.  do remaives in their place and ancient dignity, the Kings of England, Denmark, Sweden, the Dukes of Sa●…cony, the Cunties Palatine, etc. This is to answer to an objection, by giving many instances to the contrary, and not to glory of any multitude. And if any other of our Church do note in brief, that the Gospel hath taken root in some large nations, that is to stop the mouth of the clamorous adversary, and to satisfy the weak, as also not lest of all to praise God, who so spreadeth the beams of his compassion; but it is not to boast vainly as you ignorantly imagine. Yet who doubteth but a good Christian may joy in his heart exceedingly, and thankfully express it in his tongue, that many who sat in darkness may now behold the light, and the sheepfold of Christ is more and more filled. But if we would be too forward, you will pluck us back again. Although it be, say you, in some places of Europe, yet in some other it is not. As who should say your Popery is general in all. Where I pray you in Greece is your Papistry? It is not in Asia, and Africa, and much less in the Indies. The East Indies are part of Asia, if you could think upon it. By what means your Idolatry came into those Countries, I have showed before, and how plentifully there it is. If we would talk idly, as you for the most part do, we might say that in every place where the Merchants of Holland trade, and have people residing, our religion is accepted. But since the English Merchants have companies & houses in Russia, in Constantinople, in Aleppo, in Alexandria sometimes, in Barbary, in Zacynthus, in Venice, and Legorne, we might say after the fashion of your boasting, that our religion is in those parts. But we desire to make no more of things then indeed they are. Yet we tell you for those remote provinces, that as now one hundred and twenty years agone they knew not one whit of your faith, so it may please God, before one hundred and twenty years more be passed (if it so seem good to his most sacred wisdom) to plant the truth which we reach, in the East & Western world, especially if a passage by the North end of America, or that by Asia beyond Ob may be opened, wherein our 
q M. Haclui●… unges:  Nation hath much adventured, and speng good sums of treasure, which also the Hollanders have done. But the issue of this whole matter must be lest to the divine providence, which is to be magnified therefore, if he add this blessing to his Church, And if he deny it either there or in any other place, we must not be carried too far with grief or pity, since it doth not please him who is the father of mercy to condescend unto it. Now whereas you avouch, that our doctrine is only in England, I know not whither I should put that in your ignorances, or rather in your malicious cavils. Truth it is our common prayer book is used only by those who are of English allegiance, but is there any point of doctrine in it, whereunto other Churches reform, in Europe, do not condescend? The Catechism of the Council of Trent doth differ in words from the Catechism of Canisius, and both of them from that of M. Vaux: yet you would think it a wrong if any man should tell you that they disagree in points of doctrine. So the service of the reformed Congregations in Europe, as in England, Scotland, France, Switzerland, in the dominion of the Palsgrave, in the Regiments and free cities of Germany which are of the Pallsgraves' confession, as also in a good part of the low Countries, is the same in all points of moment, not differing one int●…: their Professions are the same. There is no question among these in any one point of religion. The Ecclesiastical policy being different, as in some places by Bishops, in some other w●…thout them, doth not alter aught of faith. The Apostles in that they were Apostles had a kind of government, which the Church had not afterward in the very same particular. In the ancient Church, some cities and Countries were immediately ruled by a Patriarch, grand Metropolitan, some other by an inferior Bishop who was subjecteth to the greater: yet they all might agree in the faith. The chief at Rome immediately is the Pope, at Milan for spiritual things the Archbishop, in some places be but Suffragaines, in some other jurisdictions, a Dean or Prior by Privilege hath almost Papal authority, which also in times past was in the Chancellors or Vice-chauncellours of our English Universities, some few things being excepted and reserved. Yet will you say that these do differ in religion, or retain not the same doctrine? Even so it is touching the belief of the Protestants in England, of those which you in spite call Puritans in Scotland, and of them whom you term maliciously, Libertines in Holland and Zealand. They teach no other liberty then what the 
r Galat. 5. 1.  Apostle teacheth, and biddeth us to stand fast in it. For the showing of your skill, I entreat you to let your scholars hear one point of moment, or material, wherein all those Churches which before I named, do differ. Speak it out, if you can tell what. Touching the Lutherans in Denmark and many places of Germany, I have told you before that in one point of the Eucharist they disagree from the rest of the Churches, which the LORD in time may send to be reconciled; and we pray unto him for the same. But your comfort upon that discord is small. For as Anthony sometimes King of Navatre, and father to the most Christian King of France now reigning, 
s Commenta●…. Relig. & Reip. in Gall. lib.  said to the Ambassador of the King of Denmark, exhorting the reformed French to be of Luther's doctrine, There be forty points wherein Luther and Calvine do differ from the Pope, and in nine and thirty of them they agree between themselves, and in that single one they descent. Their followers therefore should do well, to join in the greater number against the Pope, till they had ruinated him; and when his heart is broken, they should fall to compound that last single difference. God in his good time may grant this to be done, although in the mean while, he do exercise his spouse asseemeth good to himself.  T. HILL. 
LAstly I do boar consider with myself, if I should refuse the Catholic Romans religion so universally taught ', received and professed throughout all the world so many ages together, and embrace any of these new silly sects, adventuring my soul thereupon, what all my progenitors ancestors of they were here again and saw me die so, would say unto me. I guess they would use such speeches as th●se: what dost then condemn all our judgements and doings? Dost thou malign that Religion, which we so highly esteemed and sought to advance? Dost then send us all to hell and damnation? Wilt thou judge thyself wiser, and more in God's favour, than any of us were? And many such like speeches I think they would use.  G. ABBOT. 
27 I doubt not but in this Reason you have borrowed of your neighbours, as well as you did in others before, although it be not my hap to trace you here, as formerly I have done. But the reckoning up of those your places in the Eastern parts of the world, are by me certainly held not to be your own, which I conceive by the complexion of all the rest of your book. For your phrases and appellations bestowed on Luther and Calvin. Father Persons is your schoolmaster. But because you are devoted unto blind bristol Motives, if you have been sparingly with him in all this Chapter before, yet here you conclude with 
s Motiv. 36.  him about our Predecessors. Where you might have remembered that (to speak properly) neither our ancestors shall judge us, neither shall we judge our ancestors, but jesus Christ shall judge both, and he will not take for good payment, that which we follow by imitation of our parents, but what we do or have done after his own commandments. How often in the Scripture are men blamed, for walking in the ways of 
t 1. King 15 34. cap. 16. 19 26.  jeroboam, & of other their Ancestors? How often do the 
u Psa 106. 6 Dan. 9 6. 16  godly confess and deplore their father's sins before God? What precepts be there to that purpose, as that salomon's wife, who representeth the spouse of Christ, should 
u Psal: 45: ●…1  forgot her own people, and her father's house? What a praise is it to 
x a: Kin●…▪ 8●…. 〈◊〉.  Hezekiah, & to 
y Cap. 21: 24  josiah, and diverse other, that having idolatrous parents, they did rather look to their father which is in heaven, then to flesh and blood upon earth? If this instruction of yours should have gone for currant, the jews should scant have received the doctrine of Christ, but the Gentiles without all question should have kept them to jupiter, to Apollo, to Aesculapius, because if they had done otherwise, they had condemned the way of their forefathers. By this rule our ancestors here in England should not have received baptism, and the Indians and japonians whom you say so fast without book, should have worshipped their old Idols. The complaint which you here make in the person of our predecessors, was made before by Symmachus to the Emperor Valentinian, in the days of Saint Ambrose, speaking thus in the name of the city Rome, 
z Ambro Epist: lib: 5:  Most noble Princes, you fathers of the Country, reverence yet my years, unto which my roots of devotion have brought me. I will use my ceremonies which I received from my grandfathers, for I repent not myself of them. I will live after mine 〈◊〉 fashion, for I am free. But Saint 
a Ibidem.  Ambrose coming afterward to answer all these objections, teacheth that there is one who in matters of religion, is rather to be believed then all the world beside. Concerning God, whom should I rather believe than God himself? But of this argument I may have occasion to speak more at large.  
28 Only now thus much I add, that if any of our parents offended God, and died in damnable ignorance, who would say that for their sakes and company, we should thrust ourselves into hell ' If any of them were right, they will not grudge, that we should have more light opened unto us, than they in their time saw: even as those holy jews under the law, foreseeing what would be under the Messias, envied not to the Apostles and other of that age, the more perfect & lively knowledge of Christ. But leaving the definition and determining sentence of all, unto the Lords secret judgement, into which we must not ofter to press or intrude, we do hope that many of those who lived in the time of darkness, had that mercy showed unto them, that their souls do rest in peace. Such is Saint Cyprians opinion in the like case, 
b De sacr●…mento dominici cali●…: Epist: 68  And see most dear brother, if any of our Predecessors either ignorantly or simply did not observe and hold this, which the Lord taught us to do by his own example and ministry, by the favour of the Lord there may be pardon given to his simplicity. If any of them did hold the foundation, concerning their being justified by the blood of Christ alone, and besides that did repent of all their errors, known and unknown, committed by ignorance or wilfulness, we fear not, but that the same God who gave unto them some measure of knowledge, and would require of them according to that which they had, and not according to that which they had not, would receive them into the number of his blessed and elect. And that the knowledge of the truth was not extinguished in England, may easily be seen by that which is mentioned 
c Ration: 1:  before touching the Wiclevists, and many other who confessed Christ, yea some of them unto the death. That noble L. 
d De Ecclesia cap 9  Du Plessis handling this argument for his country France, doth give instance in Saint Bernard, in whose works we find hay and stubble, and some dross, which the fire of God's spirit in trying would burn away. He was swayed with the stream of the time, and received many matters indiscussed, from other who were some body in the outward face of the Church. But when this excellent man recutreth and retireth himself unto his own understanding, how doth he 
e De cōve●…s ad 〈◊〉: 29: Epist. 4●… 〈◊〉 ●…Word. ad cle●… Cō●…: Rem●….  lament the disorders and almost Apostasy of the Clergy of his time? How doth he inveigh against their negligence and security? But for the point of justification by Christ, how 
f Epist: 190 se●…. 50. in Canti●…a:  sincerely doth he speak, that nothing bringeth satisfaction unto the wrath of God, but his own mercy in the Saviour? How doth he expound that place, 
g 2. 〈◊〉: 4. 8  henceforth is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, 
h De gratia & lib. arbit:  explicating it, that it is just that we should have it, not because we deserve it, but because God hath promised it to all believers, & it standeth with his justice that he should perform his promise? How doth he say of good works that they are 
i Ibidem:  via regn●…, non causaeeg●…ands, the way of, or to the kingdom, but not the cause of our reigning? How confident is he in the Lords adopting of him, when he saith, I 
k De sep●… 〈◊〉 3.  consider three things wherein my hope consisteth, the love of his ad●…tion, the truth of his promise, the power of his performance. Now let my foolish thought murmur as much as it will saying, for who are thou, or how great is that glory, or by what merits dost thou hope to obtain it? And I confidenthe will answer, I know whom I have believed, ' & I am assured that in very much love he adopted me, that he is true in his promise, that he is potent on his performance, for he may do what he will. But most sufficiently and effectually of all other did he speak to this purpose, when he lay 
l In vita Ber. nard. l. 1. 12.  upon his death-bed, which place that French noble man doth cite. As it was with this holy person who had an extraordinary talon of knowledge, so we do not distrust, but divers other in their life time, and many at the hour of death did thus apprehend God's mercy, renouncing all their merits, and the merits of other men, which in our time so stiff a Papist as Sir Christopher Blount did, of whom notwithstanding because he died obstinate in other romish opinions, we do not too much hope, but leave him unto the censure of the highest judge. They which betook themselves to faith in Christ alone (neither directly, not indirectly crossing that ground) and also in general repent, and asked forgiveness for all slips known and unknown, those we judge to have died in God's favour. And of this sort we trust that many of our Ancestors and Predecessors were.  
29 HERE to turn to the Reader, this Chapter as you see, is reduced to this head; That which is largest spread is most true: But the Romish faith is so, Therefore the Romish faith is truest & most Catholic. What exception may be made to the Minor Propositi●… it is intimated before. But how far the Mayor is from truth in Divinity, what Christian doth not see? For albeit that sometimes God permitteth his Gospel, to have a very large scope at once, as in the first Church, and under Constantine, and graciously in our age, & otherwise successively and by vicissitudes doth scatter it here and there, so that at one time or other, all great places and quarters of the world, have, do, or shall hear the sound thereof, yet ordinarily the number of the godly compared with the wicked, ar●…●…t like to a little flock of kids, opposed to a huge heard of great cat-tail. That this was so before Christ's coming, it is so evident that no man can doubt it. And when he first showed himself, is not his speech to those that followed him, 
m Luk. 12. 32.  fear not little flock. Doth not he say that few 
n Matth. 〈◊〉. 13: 14:  enter into the narrow gate, but many into the wide passage, which as it intendeth the final standing or falling of men, so it noteth the state also of them which are abiding here on earth. In the 
o Cap. 13: 3.  Parable of the seed, it is but one of four parts which lighteth in the good ground. And how infinite are the places, where for many ages together, the seed never came? there was none sowed at all? I here the people are but Ethnics & infidels, without all spark of understanding. And where the word is preached, what store is there of heretics, what multitude of hypocrites, what plenty of worldlings and Atheists, men who delight in security? Are we not put in mind by our Saviour 
p Luk. 17: 26  elsewhere, that when the Son of man is to appear upon earth, it shall be as in the days of Noah, and in the time of Lot, when the most part of persons shall eat and drink, and buy and sell, and plant and build, mary and be married. And how few there were united unto Noah in faith, we know by the small number of them who were saved in the Ark: & how few joined with Lot is as plain, when none but his daughters would follow him out of Sodom. And of this sort it must be toward the end of the world, The faithful in comparison of the carnal and reprobate, shall be but a little company.  
30 Then it is no marvel if the old fathers have not taken for any argument of verity & right, the greatest & widest multitude; a●… 
q Homil: 12. in Genes.  Origene when he said, There are always more evil persons than good, & vices are of a greater number than virtues. And as they are more in tale, so their dwelling & spreading is much more large. Do 
r Lib. 1. Epist. 3●…  not respect saith Cyprian the number of them, for better is one man fearing the Lord, than a thousand wicked children, as the Lord himself hath spoken. That worthy man Ludovicus Vives in his books De veritate fidei, bringeth the objections which the Mahometans make for themselves, wherefore their profession should be truth, and among them, this is one: 
s Lib. 4:  Yea but you do see the admirable increase of that sect ●…hich is ours, so that it is apparent that it is augmented even by the help of God, which is the self-same reason that is here urged for the Papacy. But Vives doth make answer, The multitude doth not argue goodness. There were more Gentiles i●… time past. And what can be more true, then that in times passed even from the beginning of the world, there were more Ethnics, then are Saracens since the days of Mahomet, or true Christians since Christ's time? So Hierome Savanarola who was a learned man, & of an excellent spirit, as appeareth by his works, (howsoever the Romanists afterward took his life away from him) in his book 
s Lib. 4. c. 7.  De Triumpho Crucis, being opposed by a Mahumetane, that Mahomet's profession is truth, because so many do follow it, he answereth first that men are enforced by the sword so to do: and secondly that if multitude should bear the palm away, than the devil's religion were the best of all other, because he hath possessed incomparably more, then either Christ or Mahomet. Such a Reason as this is, doth the writer of this Pamphlet here bring for his Romish doctrine, which if it prove any thing, is most substantial foe Satan the great Antichrists grand master. For there is not any portion of the habitable world, but the Devil hath his crew in it. In inquiring them for verity, we should attend, what the solid rule of perfection, that is God's Sacred word, doth lay out before us, and not what the hugest multitude directed by human fancy shall prescribe unto us. 
t Exod. 23. 2  Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil. The most walk the worst way. Sapiendum est cum paucis. A wise man, as Seneca telleth us, 
u Lib. in sapientem non cadere iniuriam cap: 14.  doth not go that way which the people goeth, but as the Planets do go a contrary course to the world so he goeth against the opinion of them all. Thus we must do in Divinity, not look how many say, but on what ground it is spoken. If many agree in that which proveth to be just, we are to joy that many give consent to that which is right, but the truth is it which must try them, and not they enforce a truth. Sound religion is not the worse when it is but in a few: and the multitude which do hold it, or the wide spreading thereof, cannot make the false to be otherwise.   

THE sixth REASON. Miracles.  T. HILL. 
TRUE Miracles were never wrought but by them, who were of true religion, for that they are done only by the power of God. Now it is so manifest that there hath been almost an infinite number of miracles wrought by those who were of the Catholic▪ Roman Religion, and never any by them who were not of that Church-since Christ's time, as he who shall deny it, may be proved no less impudent & shameless, than he who shall deny, that ever there was any Mass said in times passed in England, or that ever there were any wars between Turks and Christians, or that there be any such countries as the East and UUest Indies. which thing if a man should deny, would be not of all men be deemed not only impudent, but mad, drunken or a fool? And surely the one is no less known, by all approved writers and eie-witnesses, than the other. For as in the Gospel and in the Acts, the holy Scriptures witness, that miracles were wrought by Christ and his Apostles, so do most approved authors of every age until this day testify, and record the continuance of the working thereof in the Catholic Roman Church, the which Authors for the most part were eie-witnesses of the said miracles, as for example.  G. ABBOT. 
1 WHen you first began this petty tract of yours, you undertook to do a miracle, and that a strange one too; for it were a miracle of all miracles to prove the rotten rags of Popery to be sound; and therefore we wonder not that in this your process you speak of miracles. But according to your fashion, at your first setting out you stumble: for we may well hold those to be true miracles, which are really and verily done, although it be to an evil purpose: And such as these are wrought by them who are far of from true religion, as by the Devil, and by some of his instruments, indeed not without God's permission, although speaking properly, it is not by his immediate power. The sorcerers of Pharaodid 
a Exod: 7 1●…: 22: cap. 8. 7:  three several times show wonders before their master, by turning rods into serpents, & water into blood, & by producing frogs. A false 
b Deut. 13: 1:  Prophet or dreamer of dreams may give a sign or a wonder, & the sign or wonder may come to pass. S. Austen directly 
c De civet. Dei l: 10. 16.  affirmeth that among the old Romans & their ancestors there were miracles verily done by the power of the devil, as that the pe●…ates or little images brought from Troy did off themselves go from place to place, & that Tarquin with a ●…asour did cut a whetstone in sunder. 
d Liv. lib: 1:  Livy reporteth it to be done by Accius Mavius the Augur at the commandment of Tarquin. And when among so many probable & credible writers, strange things are related to have been done among the Ethnics, but most of all among the Romans, as the raining of stones, blood, & the like, yea as 
e Tom: 2●… lib. 4. c: 13:  Freculphus saith, very wool in Artho●…se under Valentinian the Emperor, to whom is this to be attributed but to the grand enemy of mankind? which the same Freculphus doth not dissemble, when in another 
f Tom. 1: l; 5. cap. 5:  place he delivereth it, that by the naughtiness of the devils it was brought about, that a river did flow with blood, & the heaven did make a show to be on fire and such like. And this is the opinion of Bozius a special man of your side, 
g Lib: 2: contr: Machiavelli.  who telleth us that Livye reporteth, that it hath reigned stones & blood & flesh. Whereupon he saith we believe that these wonders in time past were so frequent, because devils did procure & cause them: & when such things did fall out, public supplications were made, & general sacrifices, whereby the devils themselves were worshipped. Then real miracles may be wrought by such, as be not of true religion, unless that Satan may be this religious man, & no difference is there for this matter before & since Christ's time, as will be seen anon by example of Antichrist; And if it should be excepted, that divers of these already specified, may be said not to be true, because they are done to an evil end, that is, to deceive & beguile, your late Popish miracles are liable to the same exception, being when they are at their best, to win men not to Christ but to Antichrist.  
2 The Seminaries lack writers when they set you up to be one: but like lips, like lettuce; like cause, like advocate. You powsh●… through like blind bayard, as if all were right, when here be a great many propositions which you should prove, & good man you are not able to go through with the least of them. We first require of you to make good, that such certain and undoubted miracles as were wrought by holy men in the Primitive Church, were done by Persons of that Roman profession which now you hold. We utterly deny this, & affirm, that if those good Christians did now live, & saw the Chaos of your Popery, they would cry out that you are a degenerate & bastardly succession; even as Abraham would have said to those 
h johan. 8●… 33:  jews, who craked in the presence of our Saviour Christ himself, that they were Abralians seed. Secondly you must prove, that since Christ's time no miracle was wrought, by any which was not of the true Church. Where by the way I heartily pray you to take that text with you, 
i Mat: 7. 22:  Many will say to 〈◊〉 in that day, Lord have 〈◊〉 not by thy name prophesied, & by thy name cast ou●… Devils, & ●…y thy name done many great works, And then will profess to them, answereth our Saviour, I never knew you, depart from 〈◊〉 ye that work iniquity. Thirdly you must assure us, that these strange things that you will bring, for the confirmation of your Popery, are true narrations: for I doubt not but to make it plain to every intelligent body, that a large company of those whom you mention, are but a rabble of foolish fables. You may not take on you, to be of an estate as high as Antichrist your master: you must come a little short of him: lying 
k 〈◊〉 Thes. 〈◊〉 91  wonders are his part, and wondrous lies are yours. Fourthly you must tell us who gave you a licence to talk so wide of your miracles, as that all approved writers, and those eie-witnesses do deliver so much for you, and that these testifiers (especially your late Legendary writers to whom anon you must have recourse) are worthy to be sorted with the witness of the Gospel, the Acts & other the holy Scripture. A comparison right worthy of you. I wish you no hurt; but if you should be apprentice to a Tankard-bearer in London, till you had proved these points, there would nothing but death part you and your master. That Mass hath been said in England, it as certain, as that the 
l Matth: ●…4: 〈◊〉:  abomination of desolation was in the holy place. That wars have been long, & yet in Hungary are continued between Turks and Christians, we deny not, as also that there be East and West Indies: but that your assertions are as evident as these, there is none which will say, but yourself: neither would you affirm it, but since the time that you have left blushing. Wit or learning, or shame, or honesty, if all were not asleep, would keep you more within compass. But while you do thus, this is the benefit which you gain, that with fools you make some show, but wise folks even among Papists will despise you, and be ashamed of you. Their cause is nought, and you still make it worse. Yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 ●…i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉. You do well to set a face upon a bad matter.  T. HILL. 
IN the second age were wr●…ght those wonderful miracles by the Christian 
Te●…t in lib: ad Scap: & in Apol. c. 5. Euseb lib: 5. hist. c 5. Oros. lib. 7. hist. c. 15.  souldi●…rs in the army of M. Antonius, which Tertullian, Eusebius, Orosius, & the Emperor himself have recorded. In the third age were the miracles of Gregorius Thaumaturgus witnesses S. Basile lib de spiritu ●…ancto, c. 29. Gregory Nyssene in vita eius. Hierom. de viris illustrib. Ru●…inus l. 7. hist. c. 25 In the 4. of S. Anthony, Hilarion, Martin, Nicolas & of others. In the 5. those which S. Austen setteth down. l. 22. de civet. c. 8. In the 6. those which S. Gregory maketh mention of lib. 3. dial. c. 2. & 3. In the 7. those which were done in England in the conversion thereof, written by the same Greg. l. 9 ●…p. 58. And by venerable Bede l. 1. hist. c. 31. In the 8. the miracles of S. Cuthbert, & S. john 〈◊〉 England, also Bede, l. b. 4. hist. & 5. In the 9 the miracles of Tharasius written by Ignat. Nicen. & of others. In the 10. the miracles of S. Romuald. recorded by S. Peter Da●…: of S. Wenceslaus & of others which Surius writeth. In the 11. the miracles of S. Edward K. and vir, of S. Ans. and of others. In the 12. the miracles of S. Mal. S. Barn. and of others. In the 13. the miracles of S. Fran. S. Dom. S. Bonavent. S. Celest. and of others. In the 14. the miracles of S. Bernardine, S. Katherine of Sienna, and of others. In the 15. t●…e the miracles of S. Vi●…c. S. Ant. and of others. And last of all in this 〈◊〉 16. age are the miracles of the glorious S. Fran. de Paul●…, of the holy jesuite Zav●… 〈◊〉 the Indies and of many 〈◊〉.  G. ABBOT. 
3 THe first miracle that you cite, was that under M. Aurelius, as 
m Locis supra citatis.  Tertullian and Eusebius call him. Orosius termeth him M. Antoninus Verus: he himself in his Epistle which is to be seen in some Copies of justinus Martyr, M. Aurelius Antoninus, but none of them hath M. Antonius. The matter was, that in Germany he with all his army was like to perish for want of water: and in an extremity, when all other means did fail, a legion of the Christians, which afterward was thereupon called Legio Fulmi●… did join in instant prayer to their God, and presently there fell abundance of rain, to their exceeding comfort; and withal there were thunderings and lightnings, which fell among their enemies and desolated them. Gregorius Thaumaturgus, first was called. 
n Hier: devi. ris illustrio.  Theodorus, but now useth to be termed also Gregorius Ponticus, or Neocaesariensis: he was a scholar to Origen, and of him it is 
o Basil de spir. Sanct. cap: 29:  written, that he had power against Devils, yea as Socrates affirmeth, by sending 
p Lib: 4: 22.  letters concerning that business he could cast them out: he cured the sick, he turned the course of rivers: he dried up a marish, converted divers to Christianity, and foretold many things. Anthony the Monk was a mere ignorant man, devoid of all knowledge of letters: he could foretell somethings as 
q Lib 1: 13.  Sozomen saith, and did diverse wonders as 
r Lib: 1: 17:  Socrates hath. Of Hilarion the Eremite, 
s In vita Hilarionis.  Hierome reporteth, that by prayer he procured a barren woman to have a child: healed divers which were extremely sick, & dispossessed some of Devils. Of Martin I find in 
s Lib: 3: 13:  Sozomen, that it is believed of him, that he raised up a dead man, and did show other signs not inferior to the wonders of the Apostles. The tales of 
t zach Lip. pel. in vita Nicolas.  Nicolas are, that when he was a sucking child he knew what it was to fast, and therefore on Wednesdays and Fridays would not touch the breast till night. When he was a man he foresaw a tempest at sea, and when it came, with his prayer he allayed it. He appeared in a vision to the Emperor by night, and caused him to pardon three innocent men, whom he intended to execute. Saint Austen 
u De civet. Dei li: 22: 8:  mentioneth, that at Milan near the bodies of Protasius and Gervasius, a blind man was restored to his fight. That at Carthage when he himself was in the house, Innocentius a chief officer of that city, was by prayer miraculously cured of a very fearful sore. Also that Innocentia was healed of a canker in her breast, and a Physician of his gout by being baptized, with diverse such other matters. For the sixth age, that whichis cited out of 
u Dialog: li: 3: ca: 2: & 3:  Gregory is, that when john the Pope had road on the horse of a Noble-woman, the horse would not any more endure a woman on his back, no not his old mistress: that the same john had at Constantinople made a blind man see: and that Agapitus another Pope, caused one who was dumb and lame, both to speak and go. The words of 
x Li: 9 Epi. 58:  Gregory about the conversion of England, are only those in general, that God by Augustine the Monk had there showed great miracles, and that he should not be proud thereof. Bede 
y Hist: lib: 1: cap: 31:  citeth the Epistle of Gregory unto Augustine, and addeth nothing of his own. Of 
z Lib: 4: 28:  Cuthbert he rehearseth, that whereas spirits did haunt a place, at his coming thither they gave over: that by prayer he got a well to spring up in dry ground, that by his means barren land did grow to plentiful fertility. Of 
a Li: 5: 22 3: 4  john, that he caused a dumb boy to speak and healed a nuns arm that was much endangered by unseasonable letting of blood, and such like. 
b Lippeloo. in vitis Sanctor. feb: 25  Thatasius Archbishop of Constantinople under Constantine and ●…ene, was a great defender of the erecting and worshipping of Images in Churches. The miracles related of him out of Ignatius the monk, are that after his death, at his tomb was cured a woman which was troubled with an issue of blood, a man that had a sore eye, an innumerable multitude of such as were infested with fowl spirits, and oflame men, and of blind folks.  
4 The 
c Nova legend. Ang. in vita Ruwoldi.  legend hath of S. Romuald, that as soon as he was borne, he did speak Divinity, and forthwith being baptised did preach high points of doctrine, lived in all but three days, & at his tomb in Buckingham, many lame & blind were restored. Of 
d Lippeloo Septem. 28 è Surio.  Wenceslaus it is said, that being but a very weak man, and entering combat with Rad●…s a most valiant General, by signing himself with the sign of the cross, and by the help of Angels attending him, he caused his enemy to fall prostrate down unto him. Also that the Emperor saw Wenceslaus guarded with a couple of Angel's King 
e Idem: in ●…anuar. 5.  Edward, who marrying the Earl Godwines daughter, did together with her by consent of them both, keep perpetual virginity, is recounted to have cured a lame Irish man, by carrying him on his back to the Church. Also to have healed the very sore throat of a woman, to have given sight to diverse blind men, and to have helped at his tomb many very ill affected. The tales of 
f Nova legend. Angl: 〈◊〉 Anselm.  Anselme be, that when once he laked meat for his company, he did bid one cast a net into the next river, and he caught a great trout, that being with a noble man, and neither of them seeing what was done or coming, he told him that one was bringing a sturgeon unto him. Another noble man being leprous was cleansed by drinking the water, wherewith he had washed his hands at the Mass. At Winchester the town being on fire, he made a cross with his hand, & immediately the flame ceased. He caused a well to spring up suddenly on the top of a rock. At lions diverse eating of the remainder of his meat, were healed of sundry diseases. With his blessing he freed a woman possessed of the Devil. A soldier that had the dropsy, by putting on the girdle of Anselm was recovered. 
g Bernard: vita. 5. Mal.  Malachy was by birth an Irish man, & with the anointing of holy oil he healed a boy that was lunatic. He so restored hearing to a deaf man, that when he put his fingers into his ears, there seemed to come out of either of them, a pretty pig. He cured one Michael of a bloody flux, by sending him meat from his table. Some who came to seek his life were destroyed by lightning. One who spoke ill of him had his tongue eaten up with worms. He utterly expelled a Devil, which removed out of one woman into another, and many other such matters he did. Saint 
h In vita Bernard. l: 1: 10:  Bernarde as it is reported of him, laid his hand on his uncle Galdricke being sick, and bad his fever depart and it did so. He freed of his trouble a man much molested with the Devil, by laying him near the altar, and putting the Eucharist under his head. At Milan 
i Lib, 2: 4:  he drove a Devil out of a woman. A boy 
k Lib. 4: 5:  also that was a fool, and lame, deaf and dumb, was made perfectly whole by him, and diverse other matters of like nature. Saint Francis when his preaching was despised by the 
l Mat. Paris in Hen. 3.  Romans, went into the fields, & there charged the crows and kites and pies, to listen to his doctrine, which they did for half a day without any noise or chattering. And thus he did for three d●…ies together. Fifteen days before he died, there appeared in his hands and feet, wounds dropping with blood, as it was with our Saviour Christ hanging upon the cross. And he had such a hole in his right side, that a man might see the in most secrets of his heart. But when he was dead, none of the wounds appeared upon him. Of S. Dominicke, 
m Ibidem.  Matthew Paris, 
n In Greg 9  Platina, and 
o Chro. l 4.  Genebrard do say, that he was canonised for a Saint, but they name not his special miracles. But the 
p Lippeloo in August. 4.  abridger of the Legend of Surius, who never faileth at any jump, telleth of him that when the Albingenses did cast a book of his into the fire, it would not burn. And when another heretic did the same by a paper, wherein Dominicke had written some Divinity, it had the same effect. Moreover that he could foretell things, & that he raised up diverse persons from the dead. As for 
q Idem August. 14:  Bonaventure, the same author saith, that the miracles which were done in his life and at, or after his death, were very many, but in good truth he nameth never a one; which he would not have spared to do, if he might have guessed what they were. 
r Idem in vita. S: Petri de Motono: Maij: 19  Celestine before he came to be Pope, had sometimes Angels of heaven ministering unto him, and setting before him dainty banquets. After that he was chosen the Roman Bishop, a boy which was lame on both his feet, being set on the Ass whereon Celestine had road, was presently recovered. After that he had resigned the Popedom, he cured another lame man, but by bestowing his blessing on him. 
s Idem in vita Bernardin: Maij: 〈◊〉  Bernardine is said to have lift a lame man from the ground, and so to have restored him to his limbs. After his death, when his body had been washed to the burial, deaf person by the virtue of that water recovered his hearing. The legend hath many narrations of 
s Idem in vita Catarrh. Senens. Apr. 29  Katherine of Sienna; that she had as great and intue familiarity with Christ, as any one man hath with his dearest friend: that she restored to life again her mother Lapa being dead: that of a little very bad meal, she made a very great deal of passing good bread, for the relief of the poor: that whereas a Friar with weeping for her death broke one of his arteries, and so vomited a great quantity of blood, by touching her hands he was perfectly restored. She had by Christ himself imprinted in her body, five wounds like those on him at his passion. For the space of eight years she lived without receiving any food. Of 
t Idem in vita Vincentij. 〈◊〉: Aprilis.  Vincentius it is related, that with making the sign of the Cross, he could heal such as were sick. He did prophecy unto Calixtus the 3, fifty years before, that he should be Pope. A certain mad women killed a child of her own, cut it in pieces, sodde some part thereof for her husband's dinner, yet he coming in, and setting the pieces together again, prayed over them and crossed them, & all stuck together as before, and the child returned to life as if there had been no such matter. If we did lack a miracle in grain, here were one for the purpose. We must imagine that if they had eat the child, he would with a whiff have fetched him out of their belly again, and as they should have been never the better for it, so the boy should have been never the worse. With fifteen loaves he fed two thousand men: he turned sour wine making it to be right good to drink: he cured sixty at several times which were possessed with Devils. With holy water he allayed a most grievous tempest.  
5 The first miracle which is set down of 
u Id. in vita Ant. a. Maij  Antoninus Archbishop of Florence, is that when a maid had broken her hearelace, or some fillet of her head attire, with making the sign of the Cross, he made it whole. He by prayer healed a man that was grievously sick: made a barren woman fruitful by blessing hericured a woman which for six years was ill of a dropsietrestored a bewitched child, by his handkerchief put upon it: raised another dead child to life. By denouncing the sentence of excommunication upon a white loaf of bread, he made it as black as a coal, and freeing it afterward from the same corpse, it returned to be as fair as it was before. Franciscus de 
u Idem in elus vita. Apr. 〈◊〉:  Paula could go upon fire barefooted, and carry stones red hot with fire, in his hands, and yet take no hurt. He could cast out Devilles, and restore those to health of whose recovery Physicians did despair; make the la●…e go, the d●…afe hear, the dumb speak, the blind see, the lepers be clean, yea the dead or those who were esteemed dead, to return to life. Concerning the jesuite Franciscus Xavier, 
x Commentar. Anno 1565.  Surius saith that in the Indies he would send such boys as were formerly converted to the faith by him, unto sick folks, where when they did but rehearse the Creed, and tell them that they must believe in Christ, the patients were healed. Also that his body 15, months after he was dead, remained perfectly whole and uncorrupted, yea gave a most odoriferous smell. But Maffeus' the jesuite and fellow to Xavier will not Propter bonum sociatatis let him go so. He therefore 
y Hist: Indic. Lib. 15.  reporteth, that when two men in a boat at ses, were by a storm driven away, he presently made the boat to come again, close to the ship wherein he was. That at Goa immediately he made a sick man whole. That twice in a horrible tempest at sea, dipping his box of relics into the water, he made all to be calm. Many other such matters are currant of him among his companions, touching all which I may say, that of likelihood they be not overmuch believed of the Pope or Papists themselves, since his Holiness nor any of his Predecessors, have bestowed the Sainting of this Xavier on him, neither hath any one of that Society been Canonised to this day, as the Secular Priests do rightly object against the jesuits. And yet our age is not debarred from putting those who merit it, into the Calendar or catalogue of Saints, since the Pope now reigning, even this Clement the 8. hath bestowed this favour in 
z Icones & vitae Paparum, in Clement. 82.  Hiacynthus a Polovian, so that the Romanistes have one Saint more to pray to, than their forefathers had. I trust if you had thought upon him, you would have done him the honour, to have closed up your miracle-workers with his name & company. Yet it should not have been for need, if so you had done; for already you have insinuated unto us many strange things, which I have touched more at large, as being desirous that your Reader should know, what it is that you do point at. But now my opinion is, that the examples before named, & produced for the confirmation of the authenticalnes of the Roman Religion, are very well worthy our farther examination, and advised consideration.  
6 The story then of the Christian soldiers, for the general consent of approved writers therein, we do believe, & know that God in mercy inclineth much to the 
a jam. 5: 17.  prayers of his good servaunts. That Gregorius Thaumaturgus did something it is likely, but whither he by letters could cast out Devils we do not hastily credit. Great learned men recorded many things upon report of others; and conceiving that all strange Narrations would breed admiration to the Christian faith, were well contented to accept of them, & deliver them to other without further disquisition. This more grossly appeared in Gregory and Bede: but it had his beginning before their age. Of this sort we esteem that which is related, of Hilarion, Anthony, Martin, and Nicolas: reports of them, went for records, and small matters were made great. Hierome and the other old writers could not yet fully discover to what head Satan did bend; (whose meaning was to raise from the rumour of those miracles, innumerable occasions of idolatry, to be committed at or to the relics of those persons, who were said to do the wonders) and for that cause these good men were the more facile to apprehend such relations. But if these as also the other mentioned by Saint Austen, should without exception be granted to be true, why do you Papists challenged them to be yours? Or what doth this more make for the Synagogue of Rome, then if the Goths who broke into that city, in the days of 
b Sozo. 9 9  Honorius the Emperor should have arrogated and assumed to themselves, all the Acts of the worthy Consuls, renowned Dictator's, & famous Em perors who in times past had resided there? If it be said that some of these were Monks & Heremits, it is true that they desired upon a wrong opinion of more holiness therein, to live seiunct from the world, as the 
c joseph. de bell. judaic. lib. 2. 7.  Esseis among the jews had done, & all their usage we can neither commend nor excuse: but they said no Mass, sung no Dirges for the dead, neither did they lead a life any way concurring with these later Antichristian swarms: distinguish the times, distinguish the persons, put a difference between the actions then and now, and our Papists may no more challenged to themselves their miracles, than the Senbes and Pharisees might have strengthened their errors by the old wonders of Moses. Those which Saint Austen nameth are not free from their exceptions; that some were reports: some grounded on the narration of one: that frequently those things are attributed to religion, which might be effected naturally, diseases having their periods, and medicines which are applied, sometimes working more than can be imagined. But for reverend respect to that father, we insist not too far upon these. Only this we would have noted; that he citeth not those as necessary proofs to confirm the faith, (for what Saint Austin's opinion is of miracles in that behalf, ye shall see anon) but to yield to the importunity of some, who being unbelievers did call for strange signs & wonders: for the stopping of whose mouths, he showeth that their age had some rare matters and events in it, though he cited them not as much making or marring, for the verity of religion. I pray you observe his words in the beginning of the Chapter, 
d De civet. Dor li. 22. 8:  Why say they, are not those miracles now done which you do preach to have been done? I might say, that before the world did believe, they were necessary to this end that the world might believe. But whosoever doth inquire after wonders that he may believe, he himself is a great wonderment, who believeth not, now the world doath believe. And doth he not more then once make a difference of the wonders by him mentioned, and the miracles declared in the holy Scripture, confessing that those of his time, were not so known, so certain so, celebrious as the other. For that many of them were done in Cities where scant any one understood of them. But those in the Apostles age, frequently were performed in the presence of whole multitudes of people.  
7 As for the Dialogues of Gregory, I acknowledge that 
e Hist l: 2: 1:  Bede and 
f Tom: 2: li. 5 cap: 24:  Freculphus do reckon them as the works of the first and great Gregory. But so are divers things attributed to Saint Austen which are not his own, as Adfratres in ereme, where the writer saith of himself I 
g Ser: 25: & 37:  Austenbishop of H●…n or to that purpose. Divers learned men of our side take manifest exceptions to the whole tract of those Dialogues, as being absurdly forged and fathered on Gregory. 
h M. Sutliv. de Purgat. lib. 1: 1.  One saith thus, I being induced by most certain arguments d●… judge, that the Dialogues of Gregory are counterfeit, & unworthy this such a man. For if you look on the argument that●… can nothing be thought more fabulous: if on the style, nothing could be written more barbarously and 〈◊〉. And Master Fox addeth, that the Dialogues which are reported to be Gregory's the first, were written in 
In Hist: 〈◊〉.  Greek by Gregory the 3. and were translated into Latin by Zacharias the Pope. But be they whose they may be, is there any credit to be given unto them at all, when besides that they consist almost wholly of childish or old wines tales, the Author himself unworthy of the gravity of such a one as Gregory, professeth in the beginning of his 
k Dialog. lu 〈◊〉  work, that he would relate all things which he had probably heard Who is there that hath lived but a few years, which hath not heard so many tales of fairies, & walking spirits and dreams, with other such mean and riffraff stuff, as might make a large volume, and yet the least part thereof is true? Beda who followed Gregory in time, saw this ye broke to his hand, and he would needs after, being as plentiful for fabulous narrations at the other. By this time, Popery began to grow more strong, and good men by credulity of uncertain or unexamined reports were overtaken. They imagined that such things made for God's glory, & for the propagating of the Christian faith, when it was indeed clean contrary; for fables do disgrace the verity of religion, and the Lord needeth not a lie to set forth his honour. That which is here delivered after the days of Bede, in such barbarous, such base, such baggage-rotten stuff, such lying, such legendary, such paltry and shameful gear, that were there in you but one grain of, salt one mustard seed of judgement, you would be ashamed once to name such dunghill rags. I do many times from the bottom of my heart, give thanks to my Almighty Saviour, as for his Redemption in general, so that it hath pleased him to keep me and my father's house from the gangrene of Popery, that our souls are norted with such shells and husks, and that our faith is not rested on such weak grounds as these be. For first, who and what manner of persons are these, whom you here mention for the exploiters of your miracles▪ I will except Saint Bernard, and K. Edward the Confessor, who swayed with the darkness of their times, believed and reported things most doubtful, and had the like for matters of fact reported of them. But besides these I can hardly name another of these late Saints, but that leaving the final judge meant of him to God's secret counsel, we may call to mind in his behalf that speech reported to be Saint Austin's, 
l Glarean. in pref Annot. in Suetonium.  The bodies of many are adored here on earth, whose souls are buried in hell. For what was this Tharasius by you mentioned, but a notable idolater, mainetaining the erection of images in Churches, & the adoration of them? What was Anselme but an hypocrite above ten thousand hypocrites, if God gave him not repentance in the end? He 
m Malmis. de gest. Pontific. lib: 1:  would seem so to hate sin, that he oftentimes would wish, that he rather might be in hell without sin, then in heaven having offended and transgressed: which speech is of that quality, that it can hardly be decided, whither there be more ignorance or hypocrisy in it. He once 
n Ibidem.  reported, that after that he had entered a Monkish life, he was never so angry, that he gave any one a reproachful word but once. That he never spoke any speech but one, the memory whereof did trouble his conscience. At supper once remembering that he had eaten a raw herring, he smote himself on the breast deeply sighing for that crime, that contrary to the law he had eaten raw meat. But when one sitting by him, answered that the salt had consumed the rawness of the herring, Thou hast healed me saith he, that I need not be tormented with the memory of this sin. Of this hypocritical quality was Francis the father of the Franciscane Friars, & one of your Saints. His commendation was, that when the Pope 
o Matt Par in Henr: 3:  scorned him as a ragged and torn companion, & when he presumed to speak to him, bad him go tumble him with the hogs, he went his ways & did so indeed: & coming again all be●mired & filthy, made the Pope wondering at his behaviour, more to praise the obedience of the fool, them any thing else in him. What should I say of the rest, that they were a rabble of the Pope's dear vassals, & made Saints by him for rendering his service, & enlarging his kingdom; surely little in grace with Christ because so esteemed of Antichrist. Unto these you should have done well if you had added for Country sake, achiefe Champion of his Holiness, Thomas Becket as good a Saint as the best, and as great a man for 
p Nova legend. Angl. in Thom. Can 〈…〉.  miracles, if we may believe your fellows reporting his life; bus in truth a Rebel to his King, and very a Traitor to his country, dying in a damnable quarrel, which even in those days, wise men saw, as may appear by this, that forty 
q Du Haillan Lib. 5.  years after his death it was disputed among the Doctors of Paris, whether he were saved or damned, & Roger the Normand did most stoutly maintain it, that he was a Rebel to his King, and deserved to die. But Pope Alexander found him a man for his purpose, and knew that it would be more profitable for the Papacy, if multitudes might be gulled with the opinion of his sanctity, and therefore he Canonised him by his Diabolical authority, & made him Saint Thomas of Canterbury. A many such Saints there be, with whose souls a sober man would be very unwilling at all adventure to change his soul, lest his reward should be eternal torment.  
8 Secondly out of what Records are the miracles cited, which we do now debate? Forsooth out of the Legend, the Legendary, the golden Legend, called the lives of the Saints. In these the Friars and Popish Divines were ever more better read, then in the holy Bible: but wise men & such as feared God did continually detest them. 
r De reformatione Eccl●…siaet  Petrus de Aliaco, as he spoke against the Canonizing of so many Saints, so he would not have Apocryphal writings (wherein questionless Legends may be comprehended) to be read upon feast days in the Church. It was one of the complaints 
s Centum Gravamin. German: cap. 21.  of the Germans against the Popedom, that their unlearned Preachers did tell them tales in the pulpit out of Legends not received by the Church, and more like to the fables of the Gentiles then to the Gospel. Ludo vicus Vives could say that the golden Legend was written by a man 
s De causis corruptar. ar●… l. a.  of an iron mouth or face & of a leaden heart. And do you after all this, rake that sink, to tell us tales of miracles, without head, without tail, without all probability? Your Papists have good stomachs that can digest such cold iron. You will say perhaps I slander you: for your water came out of another well. The reverend Father Laurentius Surius the Carthusian hath supervised all the reports which formerly were of the Saints, and now he hath compiled them into a very large story, and thence you have your citations, or from 
t Res gest. illustomarryrum.  Lippeloo, who hath revewed, digested, and abbreviated the huge volumes of Surius, and these sometimes do name the Authors in particular, from whom they have their relations. Well, the matter then is this: these two have it out of the Legends, & you take in from them. But they have left out many things which the Legends reported. True: the lies were so many, that they filled too many books. They divided then every thousand, and kept five or six hundred of them which were most significant, and for their purpose. Or they abridged them: but as now they be, there is none but a child, a simple woman, a Papist, or a blockish brutish body, which will lend any credit to them. Dross can be nought but dross; and do what you will, dregs will be no better than dreges. Their discretion in sifting truth from falsehood, as it appeareth many other ways, so in registering Saint Lungeiss for a Saint, which they borrow from Metaphrastes, & make him to be a 
u Lippel. in vita Longini Martij. 15  jew, and not a Roman, and yet his name is Longinus, and he was the Centurion that stood by the Cross when Christ was crucified: but he was afterward beheaded for the Christian religion, by the commandment of Caesar and Pilate. Now although in the Acts of the Apostles (where for the advauncement of our Saviour's glory, such a matter would not have been concealed) there be not one word of this, no nor yet in any other good writer, yet this man is dropped or slipped in to be a Saint, and he is to be prayed to, and his holiday is, to be kept of those that will, on the fifteenth of March, and Surius with his abbreviatour●…, know his name, his office, his deeds, his death, as well as if they had been by him. I name this one for a taste, but he who pleaseth may find a hundred such, if he will take pains to read the Lives of the Saints, as they are set down by the foreinamed Authors. Such trim men are your miracle-workers, and therefore your miracles must needs also be of an excellent suit.  T. HILL. 
AND therefore I say unto you out of Saint Austen, I am bound and tied in the Catholic Church by the band & chain 
August deutil. cred c. 〈◊〉 & l cont: Ep●…sund: cap. 4:  of miracles. And I am bold considering and most steadfastly believing these infinite glorious miracles of all times & ages in the Catholic Roman Church to cry out to Almighty God with Richard de S. Victore lib. de trin. cap. 2. Lord if it be not true which we believe, thou hast deceived us: for these have been confirmed in us by such signs & wonders as could not be wrought but by thee. But on the contrary part, never any Protestant could work any miracle at all, but ass●…ying to make some show thereof, to make their Doctrine the more probable to their followers, felt the just revengement of God, who turned all to their shame & confusion, as he did by Simon Magus, by Cyrola the Patriarch of the Arrians as witnesseth Grego. Turon. 
Egesippus: lib. 3: de excid hiero●…ol: cap. 2:  lib. 2. hist. Fran. cap. 3. by the Donatists. Optatus lib. 2. contr. Parmen. 〈◊〉 our dates by Luther, endeavouring to dispossess a wench, and by Calvin going about to delude his disciples, as you may read in Hierom. Bolsec. in vit. Calvin. cap. 13. And therefore they are most foolish, 
Vid: Staph: in abs: relp:  and miserably inconsiderate, who believe these new fellows, not being able to quicken a flea, and leave the doctrine of the Catholic Church confirmed with innumerable miracles.  G. ABBOT. 
9 IN the text you cite one saying out of Saint Austen; but in the margin you quote two. The 〈◊〉 former place doth only mention that the truth of Christian religion 
De utilitat. credend: cap. 17.  is confirmed by miracles. But you therein abuse your Reader notably. For he speaketh of miracles past, & that in Christ's time, and not of any which were to come, or like to continued in the church. The words to which he alludeth are more plain in the chapter next before going, where in a larger sort he handleth that argument. Such 
x Cap: 16:  things were done at that time, wherein God in a tr●… man did appear as much as was sufficient for men. The sick were healed, the lepers were cleansed, going was restored to the lame, sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, And there is speech of no other matter. And to no other purpose is the second place, where the words are not which you cite. His saying is thus, that there; be divers things which do keep him in the bosom of the Church, 
y Contr. Ep. fundament: cap: 4:  The consent of people and nations doth hold me: there doth hold me an authority which was begun with miracles; nourished by hope, ever ●…ased by charity, confirmed by antiquity. Doth this make for you, as you think, or against you? The authority of the Church was begun with miracles. It is true, meaning of the time of Christ, and his Apostles: but he doth not say it was continued, and must be continued unto the worlds end, much less doth he affirm that it must be as a necessary argument of truth. So you have gained much by these two places, even as you have done by the whole rank of your wonders: whereof such as appertain to you, that is the late Legendary inventions, are many indeed, but not infinite, & are so far from being glorious, that they are plainly contemptible & ridiculous, fit for your uncatholike Roman strumpet, whose throne must be supported with lies, and variety of falsehoods. In being therefore ●…old, you may be more bold than you have thank for your labour▪ but do not say that you most steadfastly believe, for you bestow too good a word upon yourself. In such stuff as this is, 
z Palingen. in Geminis  Quifacilis credit, facilis quoque fallitur, He who lightly believeth, is easily deceived. You are strongly conceited, & you have a boisteous imagination, from which the sooner you fly, the safer you will stand. The 
a De Trin. lib. 1: cap. 2:  words of Richard de S. Victore, are not spoken of your fabulous and instly questionable wonders, but of such signs as gave evidence to the first preaching of the Gospel, & were wrought by Christ and his disciples; which were so true & so strange, as that they could be wrought by none but by the power of God, and therefore we may believe the doctrine both of the Trinity and other matters, which they confirmed; and not be deceived at all. Yet this addeth no credit to your forgeries & illusions, neither convinceth that now we are to depend on miracles. That we do not take on us to be able to work any, we do most willingly acknowledge. We know that those days are past: although God do not so restrain himself, but that (the prayers of his servants interceding) he sometimes suffereth strange things to be done. But we cannot presume upon it; since we have no warrant for it, out of the word of God. And who is there I pray you in the whole Hierarchy of your Papacy, who dare professedly assume that gift unto him? Dareth your Pope the ministerial head of all your holiness, dare your Cardinals, your Bishops, your Friars, your Priests? Long agone the 
b Decretal. lib. 5. tit. 35. cap. 3.  Templars in Livonia did enforce the poor people to this; that if any of them were accused of any crime, to purge themselves they should go barefooted, over certain red hot irons, & if they were burnt at all, than they were held for guilty. But some newly converted to the faith, complained of this to the Pope Honorius the 3. & he inhibited that any more such trial should be made, calling it a thing forbidden, a greevance, & that wherein God was tempted. The like may be said of any, who presumptuously should profess to attempt any strange & miraculous matter; it is but a tempting of God, even by the judgement of 
c Isa: 7: 12.  Ahaz now long agone, who being but an evil man, yet was so fair tightly instructed. Yet that good hypocrite your S. Dominicke, going to dispute against the 
d joh. B●…isseul. contr. Spond.  Albingenses, & pretending that he would prove them heretics, did bid them write their reasons, & cast them in the fire, & if saith he, they will not burn, than we will believe you. As if the holy Bible were not truth, if being cast into the flame it would burn to ashes. You can tell us tales of your men doing elsewhere great wonders, but you should do well to send us some of your miraclemongers hither, that we may judge of their juggling. You mutter much of an holy anointed Priest, that he by exorcizing can cast out Devils: but we wonder that these Devils in England can no where truly be found, but in Papists. In India our 〈◊〉 jesuits would make us believe that they 
Maffeus' in select Epist.  be as thick as hops: but if one of that holy Society fall on them, he can with as much case fetch him out of a man or woman, as one would get money out of his purse by turning it upside down. And in Italy and Spain there be some possessed with spirits, that the Exorcists may have work to show themselves upon. Such artificers can have counterfeits of their own choosing, and taught for the purpose. These keep in ure the old order of stage-plays, to have a Devil and a fool in them always. But it is no marvel if our priests familiars, being put in by one sleight into their abused patients, can be plucked out by another. They lose nothing by these tricks. And if there should be a Devil indeed in any, and he should be so sullen as that with all their crossing, relics, and holy water he would not out, yet they will save their stake still, the Rhemistes being at hand with this salve, that 
f In Matth▪ 17. 19:  it is not in the power of their Exercistes to cast our Devilles when they will. They must miss of their purpose sometimes. And if any Protestant be near, they will say, It is the better also, that the Spirit for that time will not out: for if then he should be ejected out of the possessed, he would presently get him into the heretic, and then they were never the near. Better keep him where he is, among his old acquaintance.  
10 That Simon Magus did attempt to work a miracle, Saint 
g In Rom: 8:  Ambrose telleth us: but there we find no otherwise, but that in deed he did fly up into the air. And so much doth Egesippus acknowledge in the place 
h Lib. 3. 〈◊〉.  which you do quote: but he addeth, that by the prayer of Saint Peter, in his flying he was fetched down, and falling broke his leg. Moreover that he attempted to raise to life a knise-man of the Emperors, who was dead; but miss of his purpose. 
i Greg. Turon. histor. Fran. lib. 2. cap. 3:  Cirola the Arrian Bishop seeing Eusebius and some other Bishops which were Orthodox, to do strange things, whereby the people had them in admiration, & accepted of their doctrine, devised to procure to himself and his Arrianisme, credit by a counterfeit miracle. He therefore gave one 50. pieces of gold, to pretend that he had been blind, & to say that by his prayer he was restored to his sight. But when Cirola was to pass by, & expected that this pageant should be played, the counterfeit crank who could see well before, was indeed stricken with blindness, and could by no means be cured of it by the Arrian; but by the Orthodox Bishops praying for him, he had his sight restored. whereupon exclaiming upon Cirola he confessed the whole intended fraud. Thus the Author reporteth it: but we dare not be to nimble in believing his Narrations in this kind, since he was too great a relater, & admirer of the miracles of holy men, having written 
k De gloria marty●… De gloris Consessor. De virtutib: & miracule S. Marti●…  books specially of that argument, & not only equalling but far surpassing the Diologues which go●… under the name of Gregory the Great, for vndiscree●… and unbeleevable vanity. If you had stayed at these two examples, you had done well but when you ci●…e a third, of miracles so attempted by the Donatists, and allege Optatus for it, you are out, for there is no such matter in that 
l Optat. li. 〈◊〉 cont. ●…arm.  whole book: neither any speech of any wonder saving this, that the Donatists commanded the Eucharist of the Catholics to be thrown to the dogs. When, by the vengeance of God, the dogs being stricken with madness, fell upon them being their own masters, as if they had been strangers, and tore them with their teeth. Also there is speech of a bottle of oil thrown by the same Donatists in disgrace out of a window, which falling on the stones did not break. But if these be allowed, this is nothing to your matter: for these are rather wonders showed by God against them, than any attempts of theirs to show miracles, and receiving a disgrace by being frustrated in them. Now for Luther that he did as you say, we find no such Record, neither do you cite us any author worthy the least credit, for it. We are reasonable well acquainted with your inventions, and especially against these two, whom here you exagitate according to your custom. But if Luther had attempted and not prevailed, is it a greater argument of falsehood in doctrine against him, than it is against your exorcizng Priests, when they miss of their desires, as your Rhemusts do insinuate? Indeed we have some what 
m Ioh Fox inh●…. Eccl. in vita Luther.  else written of Luther clean contrary to your report: as, that understanding of a young man in Wittemberge, who by a writing written with his own blood had bound himself to the Devil, he together with a Congregation of many other, continued so long in prayer, that the Devil cast in the writing at a window, and the young man was freed from him. But what that Apostata Staphilus saith of him, to whom he was a deadly and malicious enemy, we do not much regard. 
n See the defence of the Censure:  Prateolus in hatred to him did give out, that he was the son of an I●…cubus, begotten by a Devil. And of as lewd a mind toward Calvin was that wicked Bolsec, who envying the famous reputation of calvin's person, but most of all the progress & increase of the Gospel by his means, thought by all villainous slanders to under mine his estimation, and by improbable defamations to disgrace him. Now that by Romanists a thousand such tales should be begun, increased and continued, we wonder not: their whole doctrine is a mass of untruths, and so many wit●… as have the hammering of it, so many lies. Stapleton in 
o Antid. in johan. 8.  whom we find the slander mentioned in your last Chapter, hath 
p Antid. in Matth. 16.  elsewhere a tale fit for your present purpose: that Calvin long devising to show some miracle, so to get fame to himself, would need●… at length cause one Matthew to counterfe●… himself to be dead, that he might be said to raise him to life again●… yet that when they came to make the experiment, the man was dead in earnest. Now this we may believe if we will; & if we will not we may choose. Such things as were never known at Geneva, to any that conversed with Calvin, are at Douai or at Rome as true as the devils Gospel. Some one of you should give our, that he attempted to fly, or some such other matter: and if one of you would once write it, and cast but a little colour upon it, your Seminary students would swear it. Other men who know your tricket, will pity you, or laugh at you, and so let you go.  
11 Your conclusion is like your premises: they are foolish who believe these new fellows who can do nothing (indeed you might have said who make profession to do nothing of miraculous actions) & leave Popery so bolstered up with miracles. Your Master Bristol from whose fifth and sixth Motive, yet much shrunk and contracted, you borrow your sixth Reason, to show the strangeness of Miracles doth play the good fellow with us, and giveth us an instance of one in our own age; that a 
q Bristol Motiv. 5.  woman called Margaret jesope was contracted to a Dutch man in London, and by him begotten with child before they were married. His friends hearing of the intended match, send for him to Bruxelles, & there marry him to another wife. Margaret followeth him thither, is denied by him, and being brought a bed there, falleth wonderfully lame, & so continueth three years and more. In the mean while she sueth him in law both for the contract and for the maim. But the end was that by the virtue of the miraculous Sacramente●…▪ or hosts in the Church of S. Gudila at Bruxelles she was cured; having used before, much fasting, and going oft to Confession. In remembrance of this wonder, her staff or Crouch was hanged up, near the place of the Blessed Sacrament of Miracle, and her healing was proclaimed every where in the pulpit. Can any man choose but believe that Popery is truth, when he heareth this tale, the grace whereof is so excellent, that he spendeth eight whole leaves in delivering it, making it up so much, as will serve a Popish woman to read in an after●…noone, allowing her a little liberty to think how she may say it without book, to tell it to her friends or sisters. And some odds may be laid that it will cost her a dry drop or two, of some trickling tears also. It may be here noted, that the subject of the miracle, this gentle jesope was an honest woman, being with child before that she was married. Also that M. Bristol talking in his gross ignorance, of her suing the Dutch man for a maim (which is a jesting phrase in England, but no action for that particular being liable in the Civil or Common Law) is a fit man to determine of Kings and Queens, of the excommunication of Pius the 5. of the good cause of the Rebels in the North, Ann. 1569. where he proclaimeth them to be Martyrs. Thirdly it is no news to hear that 
Motiv. 15:  a harlot being put to her shifts, should be a counterfeit crank, & to cover her other baggage like tricks, should be willing to be talked of as one upon whom a miracle was showed. In the time of the old pilgrimages there were a thousand of these pranks played. And I could name where a woman lately dwelled, who (as her honest neighbours reported) by her virtuous life came to that state, that to say no worse of it, the French overcame the English. She laboured to conceal it, but being forced by infirmity to go with a pair of crowches, she gave out that she knew not how she was taken in her limbs. Afterward under a colour of going to the bath, or some other such place, she withdrew herself till by some surgeon like skill she was reform again. Yet coming home she would not leave her crowches, but professed that her weakness grew on her more and more. At length when the time was come, which best fitted her purpose, on a Sunday or holiday when the street had many people in it, who beheld her going along, she goeth with her Crowches to a brook running on one side of the town, and there for an hour and more, she sitteth washing her feet, telling such of her acquaintance as passed by, that she felt her strength more and more increasing, according to a dream which she had dreamt the night before. But the issue was, she left her crowches, and came home as well as she desired. Being asked of it, she hath not feared to swear, that so strangely she was cured as I have reported, and some wise folks believe it. You may be one of these if you will: and you may record this woman for her strange vision. This may well fit bristol Narration concerning Margaret jesope. Touching which relation, so reported, so magnified, so believed, to the great praise of the miracles done at Bruxelles, because I do desire that my much-abused country men should take notice, how they are bobbed by the fraud of their Priests, and what the juggling of such good fellows is, I think it not amiss to let them understand, that within 
s Ann 1581.:  feven years after this forenamed wonder, the Senate of Bruxelles did discover the whole legerdemain of the miracles, said and blazed abroad to be ordinary with them, and after due examination did put forth to the view of the world an Edict or Proclamation thereupon. 
s Meter. hist Belgi●…. l. 10  Wherein they declare, that the Sacrament of Miracle among them was nothing but a bare piece of bread, both lately & falsely reported to do wonders, and that the covetous greediness of the Roman Clergy there, had also obtruded to the people, rotten pieces of wood to be worshipped, as if they had been parts of the Cross whereon Christ was crucified; and in steed of the relics of Saints they kept the bones of Apes and other beasts, pretending moreover that they had some part of the Sepulchre of our Lady, and the skull of S. Michael, which things they permitted the people to adore. Yea they testify, that in the faces of divers of their images they found little holes, wherein oil was put, to make them seem sometimes as if they sweated. And that there were devises, whereby other Images had some parts of them made to move and sti●…re by wires and other instruments. The Proclamation at large is worth the reading: wherein it may be seen, that God in his good time discovereth the verletry of cozeners and beguilers; and giveth leave to such as will not close their own eyes, to behold what is truth, and what is falsehood. For some scores of years together, this place was famous for Popish miracles, and so many strange things were here said to be done, that of all the places in Europe, Bristol chose this to fetch his wonder from, for the confirmation of Popish doctrine, and now you see by a most authentical Record, what it proveth to be. You Seminary Priests that can blush, blush at this, and at the ill fortune of Margaret jesopes miracle.  
12 Here to turn unto the Christian Reader; if our Romanistes had not resolved to say any thing, which might make a show & flourish without all substance, who would in our age bring this Reason of miracles, to decide or determine which is the true faith? It is certain that when our blessed Saviour came first into the world, for the ratifying of his dotrine which seemed strange, & for the testifying of his divine power, he wrought many wonders. And yet he sharply 
t Matth. 12. 39 joh. 4: 48: cap. ●…0. 29.  reproved those who would not believe without miraculous signs, as intending that they should be but for a time, & then afterward little or no use of them. But for the planting of his Church at first, he gave also to the Apostles and some disciples that power, that they might work wonders; adding concerning that time, that these 
u Marc. 16. 17.  tokens shall follow them that believe, In my name they shall cast out Devils, and shall speak with new tongues, and shall take away serpents, and if they shall drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them: they shall lay their hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Yet that soon afterward, the ordinary exercise of these was extinguished, we have very ample testimony. 
u Eccle. hist. lib. 5. 3. & 7.  Eusebius showeth that in the days of Irenaeus, which was soon after the Apostles, there were yet done some miracles, implying by many things in his Narration, that very soon after, that gift did cease. I noted before, the words of S. Austen, 
x De civet. Dei. l▪ 22. 8.  Why are not those miracles (say they) now done, which you report to have been done? He answereth that they were necessary till the world believed: but now faith being spread in the world, he himself is no better than a wonder or a monster, who will not believe without seeing wonders. And in another 
y De vera Religion: cap. 25.  place thus, Since the Catholic Church is diffused through the whole world and grounded, neither are those miraculous things permitted to endure until our times, lest the mind should always seek visible things, & by the custom of them, mankind should wax cold, at the new appearance whereof it was all on fire etc. Truth it is, that in his 
z Lib. 1: 10.  Retractations, he expoundeth himself what he meant by this passage, It is true in deed, for even until now, when the hand is laid on them which are baptized, they do not so receive the holy Ghost, that they speak with the tongues of all nations, neither now are the sick healed by the shadow of the preachers of CHRIST passing by, and if any other such things were then done, which it is manifest that afterwards they ceased. But that which I said is not so to be understood, that now no miracles should be believed to be done in the name of CHRIST. For he saith that himself saw a blind man recover his sight, at the bodies of the Martyrs at Milan; and some other matters, he saith, were done; alluding of likelihood to those many wonders spoken of by him in the 
a De civet: Dei l: 22: 8.  place formerly mentioned. And whereas he had said elsewhere, Why, 
b De utilitat: credendi: cap. 16:  wilt thou say, are not these things done now? Because they would not move, unless they were wonderful. But if they were common, they would not be wonderful, he expoundeth that also in the same book of Retractations thus, 
c Lib: 1: 14:  And this I said, because not so great ones, nor all are done now, not because that none are done even now.  
13 Saint Austen acknowledgeth both here & elsewhere, that some strange things were done in his age, but not such great ones as formerly, not so often, not by an ordinary operation, but sometimes when God was pleased to permit it; which is notwithstanding so to be taken, that the assured faith of no man before hand could lead him unto it. And that such matters were done about that age, or a little before, we have more witness. justine 
d In quaest. ad ●…thodox. 28.  Martyr saith of the time wherein he lived, that the bodies of holy men, & sepulchres of Martyrs, did remove away the intrappings of Satan, & heal desperate diseases. Basile somewhat nearer the dates of Austen 〈◊〉 saith, that in battles lately before fought, God 
〈◊〉 In Psal▪ 18.  with hail & fire consumed the Northern Barbarians who overwhelmed them. And by the same means he hindered the Persians who would have taken their cities, killing some and returning others home, to carry news of the destruction of their fellows. 
f Haeres. 51:  Epiphanius telleth of miracles, which we dare not be too bold to believe, as that there were diverse places, whom also he nameth, where sometimes in the year, the water in their wells and rivers was wonderfully turned into wine, in remembrance of that which jesus had done at Cana in Galilee. May we not by this example fear, that divers of the gravest fathers of the Church, go a little too far in their reports as 
g Eccl. Hist. Lib. 7. 14.  Eusebius did also in telling of the image of the woman cured of an issue of blood by CHRIST, at the foot of which as he said, grew three hundred years afterward, an herb, which when it came up so high as to the garment of the woman ', it was of force to cure any kind of disease. Which narration is shrewdly censured by 
h In metho. Hist. cap. 4.  Bodine, as detracting credit from Eusebius in other matters. But be it thus: that rarely there were done some strange things, for the space of some hundreds years after Christ's ascension. Yet this was no set, certain, or ordinary vocation of working miracles, and therefore is very little to be accounted of, for the purpose here in hand. Hear Gregory on this point; 
i Mor. li. 27. 11.  What marvel is it, if the faith being propagated, miracles be not oft done, since even the very Apostles in many which were already faithful did not do them? This place being undoubtedly Gregory's, may make the freer exception to be taken to the books surmised to be his Dialogues▪ for here he telleth us that miracles are not often done, & there if all should be true, nothing can be more common. Notwithstanding hence it is apparent, that in his age there was a discontinuance of the practice of miracles; no man was noted for a common doer of them; none assumed that power unto him, and therefore since now a thousand years are passed from his time, what undoubted reckoning can at this time be made of them? Nay, what argument could be drawn from them, in the days of Saint Austen? Might that which our adversaries urge, that those who did miracles had the Catholic faith? How evidently, how copiously, how forcibly doth Saint Austen overthrow all that Reason? There were Donatists & other heretics, who did urge miracles of their side. Doth Saint Austen therefore yield thereupon that their doctrine was Orthodox? No: but thus he saith, 
k De vnitat●… Ecclesie.  Let him show it, and not say, therefore it is true, because D●…atus or Pontius, or any other did those and th●…se miracles, or because men at the memories of our Martyrs do pray and are heard, etc. Away with these either fictions of lying men, or monstrosities of deceiving spirits. For either those things are not true which are said, or if there be done some miracles of heretics, we ought the more to take heed, because when the Lord had said that there should be some deceivers, who by doing many signs should deceive the very elect if it were possible, he did add commending it vehemently and said, Behold I have foretold it unto you. And not long afterward, But they are heard either of seducing spirits, which yet do nothing unless they be permitted, God on high and unspeakably judging what is to be attributed to every one: or else of God himself, either for a pain of their wickedness, or for the comfort of their misery, or for a warning to seek everlasting salvation. But no man cometh to salvation and everlasting life, but he who hath Christ for the bead. And yet farther in the same treatise, Whatsoever things of this quality are done in the Catholic Church, therefore they are to be approved, because they are done in the Catholic Church, but the Catholic Church itself is not therefore manifested, because these things are done in it. So that now the true faith doth give countenance to the miracle, and not the miracle credit the faith; which if our Papists were not possessed with a spirit of giddiness, they must needs confess. And the same father in another place, being haunted as it should seem with objections of miracles, and as surfeited on them, and loathing them faith, 
l Tract. 13. in johan.  Against these miraclemongers as I may so call them, my God hath made me wary saying, In the last times there shall arise false Prophets doing signs and wonders. He calleth them mirab●…os, miraclemongers, and so he would have done those who now ground so much on wonders, if he had lived in their times.  
14 No reader can be so simple, but in perusing these places he may perceive, that the warrant and ground of Saint Augustine's words, and the weight of his Reasons is drawn out of the holy Scriptures, which are plentiful in that point. For besides that of 
m Deu: 13: 1:  deuteronomy, and the other place of S. 
n Mat: 7: 22:  Matthew before cited, how frequently are we put in mind that seducers and false Christ's, and Antichrist and the beast shall come with great signs and wonders? 
o Ca 24 24:  There shall arise saith our Saviour false Christ's and false Prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, so that if it were possible, they should deceive the very elect. Behold I have told you before. Here is a watchword added, to the end that we should not be negligent in discerning this. In like sort Saint Paul remembreth us that the 
p 〈◊〉: The: 2: 9  coming of that son of perdition, is by the working of Satan with all power and signs, and lying wonders, And in all deceiveableness of unrighteousness among them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. So Saint john saith of the second beast, 
q Apoc. 13: 13: 14:  He did great wonders, so that he made fire to come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceived them that dwell on the earth by the signs, which were permitted to him to do in the sight of the beast. Afterward we hear again, that 
r Ca: 16: 13:  three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false Prophet, for they are the spirits of Devils working miracles. And lastly we find that 
s Ca▪ 19: 20:  the beast was taken, and with him that false Prophet that wrought miracles before him, whereby he deceived them that received the beasts mark. From all which is it not much fit and surer to conclude, that our Papists do take on them to be able to do miracles, therefore the beast is their master, they are cousins to the false Prophet, they are brethren to the frogs, promoted by the spirits of Devils? If any grace were remaining, they would tremble at this connexion, and hast away from Babylon, lest they perish there with the harlot. But to collect from their wonders, that they are the true Church of God, is most senseless and inconsequent. I have showed before out of Saint Austen, that the Devil worketh miracles. And profane stories are full of such reports, how Satan did abuse men, so to win them to his service, or to continue them in it. The 
s Liv. lib. 29:  men of Loeri having war with the Crotonienses, were desirous to remove into their city, some store of money which was laid up in Proserpinas' temple standing in their fields. In the night time there was heard a voice out of the Chapel, that they should let it alone there: the Goddess would defend her own temples; whereupon not daring to stir it, they yet thought good to compass the Chapel with a wall. But when their building was brought to a pretty height, it fell all down to the ground. Were it here a good conclusion to infer, that the religion of Proserpina or the Locrenses was right, for these strange wonders sake? Yet this is the same which our Romanists do urge, or else they do nothing. There is an approved 
t Tacit lib: 4: Hustor:  author who witnesseth of Vespasian, that when he was to take the Empire upon him, he did diverse prodigious & miraculous matters, openly and in fight of all. Yea what can be more wonderful, then that which 
u Philostrat li●… 4: 6: & 16  Apollonius acted, as Philostratus writing his life reported of him? For one of his deeds was, that he cast out a Devil, and another that he raised to life a maiden which was dead. And to cast out Devils, & to quicken the dead, are worthily reputed amongst the highest miracles. Where, who is so gross as to infer, that the doctrine of these people was true, for their wonders sake? Neither doth it serve the turn, to put this difference or disparity, that the miracles now in question must be done in the name of Christ, which was not in those of the Gentiles; for even the same which are by Christ rejected, are there said to be done in 
u Mat: 7. 22  his name; & who is ignorant that in Christian countries, such rare effects as are brought about, by witches, necromancers, conjurers & the like, who sometimes do strange exploits, are operated by using the name of all the people of the holy Trinity, by sentences of Scripture, & other words in themselves good but wickedly applied?  
15 These reasons as they do weaken & extenuate the main strength of all miracles lately done, so the consideration of the qualities of Popish miracles do utterly overthrow them. For not the 40 or scant the 100 of them was true: diverse were wrought with legerdemain: very many were most ridiculous, & no better with wise folks than things to make sport, albeit they were admired by the simple & superstitious. That worthy man Ludovicus Vives saw this well enough, when he spoke so feelingly of this case. 
x 〈◊〉 Lib: ●…de verita: sidei  They saith he are the more execrable, yea like the Devil, who for gain sake do feign miracles in the Churches of our Saints, for when the vanity of theirs is laid open, they make men doubt of true miracles. Therefore miracles must have these marks, the truth of the thing itself, the quality of their being, the manner of the action, the cause efficient, the cause moving before hand, the end. And afterward, The avarice of some persons, hath devised false loger-demaines of miracles, by the which being deprehended and made manifest, such as are most true, are made uncertain, which is a pestilent matter in religion, and they are to be execrated who do devise them, and deserve more punishment, than such as counterfeit money, or do mingle poison among these things which are made for receipt against poison. You may here once again call to mind the Proclamation of Bruxelles before spoken of. If the miracles so extolled in the Romish Church, were examined after the notes & marks here proposed by Vives, how poor, how contemptible, how scornful would they be? Let us see some few examples, and those not tosled up and down with rumours, but believed and received, as commended unto us by authors of good note. 
y Hoveden part. 2.  In or near Sicilia, the fire did break out of the mountain Gibel, which is a matter long agone written concerning the hill Aetna. The people of the country being frighted at it, do fly to the tomb of S. Agatha, & taking her veil from thence, do with it so beat back the fire into the sea, that it dried up the sea almost for the spice of a mile, & did half scorch or burn the fishes, so that yet such fishes do remain half broiled, and are called S. Agathas fishes. You must think that it is some commodity to the country, in saving them fuel, who eat of the fishes, in as much as they are half broiled to their hands. You must not ask whether if all the water were so gone, that the fish lying dry was burnt, the people came and tosled them forward into the sea, or else they lay there till the tide came up again, that they lived so long after. Nor whether there be yet any of the same fish remaining: for were it not time, that they were spent? And yet as men say, fish is long lived. But howsoever you must not sift a miracle too far, as it is no good manners too much to examine a friends tale. 
z Ibidem.  The same Author hath another Narration concerning Thomas Becket, that he never drank any thing but water, & on a time being at board with Pope Alexander, the Pope would needs taste of his cup. There lest the sanctity & abstemiousnes of the holy man should be discovered, God so provided that Alexander could find nothing but wine: but when Becket came to pledge him in the same cup, it was turned back again into water. You must believe that although the Pope found it to be wine, yet Thomas Becket drunk nothing but water. And because it should be known that he was as miraculous in his meat, as he was in his drink, 
a Quod. lib. 8: 7.  one of our Secular Priests in great earnest telleth us, that on a S. Marks day in Rome, he had a Capon whereon he was eating turned into a carp. Some have talked of men, that could or would have gone invisible. Perhaps some body will ignorantly say that it was Friar Bacon. No, it was S. Bartholomew, as 
b Past 3: quaest: 54. a●…t: 1.  Thomas of Aquine telleth us, to whose body it was given as a miracle, that if he himself would, he might be visible, if he would otherwise, he should not be beheld: he might go invisible. You will hope that S. Bartholomew was an honest man, or else now and then he might have done ill feats.  
16 That S. Francis the Patriarch of the Franciscanes was a master of miracles, we are not now to learn: but see whether he brought not up his scholars unto it also. If we give credit to the book of his Conformities, as I cannot see who can be a good Catholic and not believe it, 
e Conformit. D. Francisc.  Friar Francis one of the followers of the noble Saint Francis, celebrating Mast, found a spider in the chalice, and did not take him out, but drank him up together with the blood. Afterward rubbing his shinbone, and scratching where it itched, that spider came whole out of his leg, and did him no hurt. And because such wonders as these be, must never cease in the Church of Rome, but our age must have her part, our jesuits who do as much honour the founder of their Society Ignatius Loiola, as the Franciscanes do S. Francis, will inform you that Ignatius was not without his miracles, for when 
d Petr Maff. in vita Ignat. lib: 1: 7  he was sometimes at his prayers late in the night, divers peeping in upon him, have seen his body hang in the air two yards above the ground, the spirit lifting up the weight of his body to heaven-ward: And moreover conferring in speech with God (which also is written of 
e Exod. 34. 35.  Moses) all his face would shine in marvelous manner like the beams of the Sun. But because the founder of the jesuits should not thus bear the bucklers away from all men in our age, there is since his time stepped up another old gallant, on Philippus Nerius a Florentine, who hath erected an order called Congregatio Oratorij. One Antonius Gallonius a Priest of his Company hath lately put out his life, & so many miracles done on & by him, that a man had need of a strong faith, which can beleevethen. Among other, to be quit with those of Loiola, 
f Vita B. Patr. Philip Nerij. lib. 1▪ Anno 1556.  he telleth that Philip was seen in prayer time, for an hour and a halves space to hang in the air five cubits & more, above groū●, which being two yards & a half hath put down Ignatius for half a yard & better. Also his face was seen to be wonderfully full of shining beams. And because we should think that miracles were no dainties with him, 
g An 1555.  he could by his smell know a whore very easily: he could by 
h An. 1559.  looking a manin the face tel what he thought, & knew familiarly the secret cogitations of men's hearts. A man being absent from him & but dreaming of him, was 
i An 1595.  cured of a vehement fever. All these strange matters, and many more he did, albeit he told 
k De beati Philip● virtutib l. 3:  Caesar Baronius then a Priest of his order, and he who was his Confessor, that he very often had asked of God, that he would do no miracles by him. And that was because he would not have the people think too well of him. And in as much as mention is here made of Caesar Baronius, I will add one thing more, which the said 
l Lib. 1. An. 1550:  Cardinal delivered upon his oath, concerning the same Philip his founder; for the said Baronius was one of his company and society. In the year 1550, now more than fifty years agone, Philip who (in the dark of the night, when all men are even buried in sleep, so that the left hand could not know what the the right hand did) did use to visit needy persons, went in the night time to carry bread to a poor gentleman. Hear by the Devil's means, while he sought to avoid a cart coming hastily upon him, he fell into a very deep ditch, but Gods help being at hand, in his falling he was presently caught of an Angel, by the hear of the head miraculously, and being nothing hurt, he was returned out safe by the Angel. This did Baronius (who was not there, and could have it but by the report of Nerius) swear absolutely to be true; whereby we may easily guess, that the same Cardinal in his writings maketh no great conscience, to say things true or false, when he maketh no bones to swear matters so unlikely. He who list to see more of the venerable miracles in Popery, let him read Henry Stephanus in his French 
m Cap: 39:  Apology of Herodotus, and there he shall find divers particulars set down. Are not our Countrymen, and Country-women blessed, when after so long light of the Gospel, they choose to feed themselves fat with legions of such wonders, and hold it a high part of their profession to believe such things as these are? We read of some whom God doth so give over to the spirit of delusion, that they do 
n 2 Thes: 〈◊〉 11.  beleevelyes.  
17 If any here do ask me, how came it ever about, that such foolish and ridiculous multitudes of miracles came to be reported, and inserted into their books, I must first ascribe it to the permission of God, who had foretold that so it should be. secondly to the policy of Satan whose kingdom by this us by a special means was enlarged. Thirdly to the cunning of the Clergy in those days, who made themselves great by the keeping up of such reports, concerning the sanctity of any of their confederacy, or of such whose relics they pretended to have, and gained infinitely by the offerings done in places of these wonders. And four to the credulity of the people, who would believe any thing once set abroach by some suborned for the purpose, or by idle companions. Gulielmus Neubringensis was a writer very learned, and judicious for that time wherein he lived. And in his story he did more than once relate, the abuse of that age for spreading abroad the fames of miracles. 
o Neubringens. l 3: 7.  Henry the eldest son of King Henry the second of England, who was in his father's life time crowned King, but died before his father, was every where by the people reported to have wrought great miracles after his death: whereas in truth he was an unadvised and rebellious young Prince. This showeth how apt the people were to entertain a conceit of any man's doing miracles, yea so far that if they might have their wills, they should soon have been shrined for Saints. Afterwards 
p Lib: 4▪ 9:  there was a great robber, who being slain it was given out of many old women, that he frequently did miracles, as if he had been some holy person, and this rumour grew so strong, and was so generally spread, that the Bishop was enforced to come to Hampton, & there display the falsehood of the whole narration, so that then the superstition was ended. He 
q Lib: 5: 19:  mentioneth also a third matter of this kind, that a traitorous fellow of London, called William with the long beard, was also reputed a Saint, and a main do●… of of miracles. Can we have any plainer certificate than this, that by the superstition and credulousness of the vulgar sort, many wonders were said to be done, when in truth there was no such matter? And if for their commodities sake any of the Clergy would join and give countenance to the matter, the party so grown to be a Saint, and the fame of his wonders should never be extinguished. The reader may by these few take a taste of the rest of their Saints and miracles, for thousands were done no otherwise then in this sort, and every man had not the wit to see the fraud, nor that courag●… to report it as Neubringensis had. And what lewdness may we imagine was practised among simple people in those dark days of Popery, when in so glorious a sunshine of the Gospel, any Seminarians should dare in England to attempt such a practice, as Father Weston the lesuite, and 
Decl●…ration of Popish impostures pract●…sed by Edm.  no less than a whole dozen of Priests conspiring with him, did of late for some years together put themselves into? They persuaded some men and three maidens, that they were possessed with the Devil, and that they by their Priest-exorcizing faculties could fetch him in & out, up and down at their pleasure. They had a holy chair to set their abused Disciples in, and a holy potion to administer to them; both matters pretended to be formidable to the foul spirits, but indeed tricks to cast their patients into strange fits, that so they might seem, as well to themselves as others standing by, to be possessed in most hideous manner. And this was so artificially carried by the jesuit and his fellow jugglers, that divers hundreds of unstable and unadvised people, being cozened and cunny-catched by their impostures were contented to be reconciled to the Church of Rome, being won there unto by their stupendious miracles. A book also or two was penned, to be spread abroad beyond the seas, of the admirable domineering of these Priests over the possessing spirits, and of the wonders which they had done upon them. Notwithstanding now by the confessions of three of the females, & one man, all which then were the pretended possessed persons, & of another than a Priest & a personal actor in this exploit (all these five being sworn & speaking upon oath) it is manifestly and undoubtedly discovered, to be most egregious, insignious, illustrious both varletry & villainy, that among men professing religion & devotion was ever heard. A man may well suppose, that the casting out of Devils, and doing of other wonders in India & far countries, by the jesuits and Priests, is a true honest & holy matter, when such unspeakable, & undescribable hypocrites, do dare before such multitudes of themselves conscious of their own fraud before such troops of standers by, some of them being to be presupposed to be ordinarily intelligent, & in England where a jealousy is justly had of their impostures, to play, act, exploit, so lewd, fraudulent and wicked a Pageant, and think that they may not only go currant away with it here, but that the fame of this business bruited elsewhere, should serve them beyond the Seas for Catholic purposes, and be a means to hold up the reputation of the Antichristian Papacy. If our seduced Romanistes would not close their eyes, they might see upon what trash their religion is built, and that their leaders care not how they be abused and led by the nose, so that their own projects and int●…ndments be affected.  
18 To draw then toward an end of this point, Popish wonders for the most part we precisely hold to be lies: others of them if they be done, to be no better in respect of their end, but delusions and means to deceive men, by bringing them into error. And concerning those that are really done, first we maintain, that they do not prove that the doers of them are Gods servants. For even in Bede himself who was such a magnifier of miracles, I do find that one 
s Eccle. his●… lib. 3. 25.  Vilfridus could say thus, Concerning your father Columba & his followers, whose sanctity you say you imitate, & follow his rule & precepts even confirmed by signs from heaven, I can answer that at the day of judgement many saying to the Lord, that in his name they have prophesied, and cast out Devils, & done many wonders, the Lord shall answer I know you not, which answer of Vilfridus being grounded on the words of CHRIST is of infallible verity. secondly we say that miracles done do not confirm, that the doctrine of those who do them, is verity: since that for the convincing of the Devil, God hath suffered heretics to do wonders: not to ratify their errors, but to confirm other of his truth. Which may aptly be applied to the reports of miracles showed by the jesuits in the Indies, if so be that any of them be true. For 
s Con. ca 2  Costerus one of their own companions most appositely informeth us thus, They do say that some of the Novatians in times past did miracles, but it was in testimonte of the Catholic faith among the Gentiles, not in witness of their error, as he who did cast out Devils in Christ's name, in the ninth of Luke. Then the doctrine of wonder-doers may be false, as the persons of miracle-workers may be reprobates. To Prophecy saith Saint 
t De simpli. praelatorum.  Cyprian, and to cast out Devils, and to do great wonders on the earth, is a high and admirable matter. Yet he doth not attain the kingdom of heaven, whosoever is found in all these, unless he do go in the observation of a tust and right way. thirdly we teach that it is no argument of falsehood in faith, not to be able to do wonders, since the time of them is ceased, and when they were at the best, they had in them no enforcement to make men believe the truth. For as 〈◊〉 chrysostom saith, Among the jews also, miracles were showed 
〈◊〉 Inpsa. 45.  neither by them was there any profit brought to their salvation. For as the beams of the Sun are not sufficient, unless the 〈◊〉 also be pure and sound, so neither here also do only miracles suffice. And so Saint 
u ●…e duplici martyrio.  Cyprian, H●…we many incurable diseases death Lord heal with a word, to how many blind men did he give sight, etc. And yet few beleevedon him, & he heard, In Beelzebub he casteth out Devils. Afterward it was so even with the same jews, they in the time of 
x Soct. li. 3. 17.  julian the Apostata going about to re-edify the temple at Jerusalem, and God showing three strange wonders against it, but yet they would not come to Christianity. Not long after that, 
y Lib: 7: 4:  a jew coming to be a Christian was miraculously healed of a disease, and yet the rest of his nation would not receive Christ. Then the end of them now is to little purpose, the execution of them common to the wicked with the godly, the practice permitted to Antichrist and his followers, no such perpetual marke-set on those that be Orthodox, and therefore we strive not for them, but know that God hath left a surer way to win men from error, and to try who are in the truth, and that is his word and the operation of his sacred spirit. But yet we are not so blind but to see, nor so unthankful but to acknowledge, that the Lord hath for the advauncement of the Gospel which we preach, done marvelous things. In which sort we account the large spreading of the truth by the means of Luther; his wonderful preservation all his days, notwithstanding his enemies, so many, so mighty, so malicious; his dying quietly 
z Sleid. l. 16  in his bed, in such peace of body and mind, and in that honourable account, as that even then when he died, he was chosen an arbitrator to decide controversies between the noble Counties of Mansfeld. We think that it was marvelous, that when such a 〈◊〉 massacre was made of the Protestants in France, in the year 1572, there should remain 
〈◊〉 Comment: relig. & reiptn Gal. lib: 10.  so many still, as have propagated so renowned a Church, as they have at this day. That such plenty of 
b Lib: 12:  fish should be cast up daily by the sea, at the siege of Rochel, whereby as by Manna from heaven, the people were for so many months relieved, and the very day that the enemy's camp broke up, the coming of the fish ceased. What may we think that so small and maligned a City as Geneva is, should be so long held against the invasions and infinite plots of the Duke of Savoy, and other who desire the ruin & desolation of it? What of the Netherlanders, that after so many thousand spaniards and Italians buried in their coasts, so many millions of Indian gold & silver spent in their country, such fraud, such force, they should stand rich and glorious at land and at sea, in better case of themselves then ever they were? lastly what may be imagined of the life and reign of our late blessed Sovereign, who after so many dangers coming to the Crown, and that in so many difficulties of subjects at home, and foreign Princes abroad, yea and of the Devil every where, did profess to maintain the truth of God, & to deface superstition? And in this beginning, she with uniformity continued, yielding her land as a Sanctuary to all in the world groaning for liberty of true religion, flourishing in wealth honour, estimation, every way admired by all the monarch whither the same of her did come, and leaving matter for such a story as no Prince hath left the like. This Queen after the defeating of the invincible Navy in the year 1588., and after many other renourned prosperities, notwithstanding the frequent conspiracies of ungodly persons against her, by the favour of the Highest, under the shadow of whose wings she was ever safegarded, died in peace, in a full and glorious age, so beloved, honoured and esteemed of her subjects as never any Prince more. And God to testify his own work, left at her death no noted calamity or misery in the kingdom, no wars, but even Ireland then calmed, no famine, no apparent pestilence, no inundation of waters, but plenty and a boundance, with inexpected tranquillity. Yea to the end that he might crown her with blessings, he put unity & agreement into the Nobles, Clergy and Commons of the land, that readily they submitted themselves to the lawful & royal successor, under whom we doubt not but to enjoy religion and all earthly happiness. Let our Papists weigh whither these things be not wonderful. We in the mean time say, They 〈◊〉 are the Lords doing, and they are marvelous 
〈◊〉 Ps. 118: 23:  ●…n our eyes.   

THE SEVENTH REASON. Visions, and the gift of Prophecy.  T. HILL. 
AS true Miracles never were wrought, but by them who were of the true Church, so heavenly Visions and the gift of Prophecte were never found to be but in the same. And therefore the holy Apostle among other things which he useth to commend his doctrine and himself to the Corinthians against Heretics, and false Apostles he bringeth in this as one saying, Now will I come to the Visions 
2: Cor: 12:  and Revelations of our Lord, etc. And Saint Peter allegeth 
2: Pet: 1:  for consfirmation of his preaching the transfiguration of our Lords in the mount which he saw, and calleth it a Uision: he had a Uision of 
Matth: 17: Act: 10, & 11  asheete with all kinds of beasts in it, when he was to deal with the Gentiles, And for the truth of Religion, and confirmation of that which they did Act. 2 He allegeth the Prophecy of jocl, who saith amongst other things, your young men shall see Visions, and to be 
joel: cap 2:  brief of this sport is the whose book of the Apocalypse. So that to see these kind of heavenlee Uisions, and thereby to foretell things most certainly, is only amongst them who are of the true Church.  G. ABBOT. 
WHen I have briefly told you, that almost every word of the greatest part of this Chapter is taken from the seventh of your Master 〈◊〉 bristol Motives, perhaps 
〈◊〉 Bristol Motiv 7:  some friend of yours will ask me, when my purpose is to cease from remembering you of this matter, since so oft I sing the same song. My answer will be that when you leave to steal out of other men's writings, I shall leave to tell you of the same: but that I fear will not be till we come to the end of your little book. Such a gift you have to continue that which you have well begun. How and by what means miracles to false and evil ends, and yet themselves things miraculously done, have and may be by Satan, Antichrist, and their followers brought about I have showed before. And it is as certain that Visions, which to doting and deceived folks seem heavenly, and so also supposed or pretended Prophecies, are of the same nature in our days, do proceed from the same root, & are applied to build up falsehood and untruth in the self same sort. Neither are these late forgeries or illusions any thing helped, by those divine Revelations which formerly have been made; since they & these have no affinity or coherence the one with the other. That S. 
b 2. Cor. 12: 1  Paul to stop the mouths of the false Apostles who depressed his authority, did mention a Vision of his own, is a matter agreed upon; as also, that S. 
c 2: Pet: 1: 17  Peter to testify that what he preached concerning Christ's glory was true, mentioneth the transfiguration of his master in the mount, to the which he was an eyewitness. And this by jesus himself was teermed a 
d Math: 17: 9  Vision. Neither is it to be doubted, but at the same time when the same Peter was to be instructed, that God's pleasure was to give the Gentiles access into the Church, as well as the jews, he had from heaven an apparition of a 
e Act. 10, 11: 13.  sheet full of all beasts clean and unclean, and a voice added thereunto, Kill and eat. But we would gladly learn what it is that you can conclude out of these, since the persons, the times, the use is now most different, you having no affinity, nor keeping any quarter with the Apostles, no not retaining so much interest in them, as the Saracens have in Abraham, from whom by the 
f Sozom. 6, 38.  bondwoman they are lineally descended. And yet it would be held but a ridiculous dispute for one of them to say, that Abraham was familiarly acquainted with God, pleased him, & had many blessings & favours from him therefore they the Hagarenes and Mahometans, are in the same grace with the Lord, & may plead any favours or privilege from him. Touching that place of the Prophet 
g joel. 2: 28:  joel which you cite, it hath relation to the sensible sending down of the gifts of the holy Ghost, which was fulfilled soon after Christ's ascension. And this was intimated again by our Saviour himself in other words, He 〈◊〉 that believeth in me saith the Scripture, out of his body shall flow rivers of water of life, unto which the Evangelist immediately subjoineth 
〈◊〉 Ioh: 7: 38.  This spoke he of the spirit which they that believed on him should receive, for the holy Ghost was not ●…et given, because that jesus was not yet glorified. The Prophet joel then foretelleth, that when Christ had appeared, there should be visible & most admirable tokens of God's power & love to his Church, in so much that many of all ages & sexes first among the jews, & afterward by some farther communicating of it among the Gentiles, should speak with strange tongues, should see visioni & prophecy. And that the words of joel have reference to this & nothing else, S. Peter himself shall be witness, whose speech this is, 
i Act. 2. 16:  These are not drunken as you suppose, since it is but the third hour of the day, but this is that which was spoken by the Prophet joel, And it shall be in the last days saith God, I will power out of my spirit upon all flesh, & your sons & your daughters shall prophesy, & your young men shall see visions, & your old men shall dream dreams. And to show that this is appropriated to that, which them & quickly after was showed by the Apostles (I mean the speaking with strange tongues, & the imparting of that gift to other, by them as the instruments of God) the same Peter hath these words afterwards, Since 
k 33.  then that Christ hath received of his father the promise of the holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this which ye now see and hear. Look then how long speaking mitaculously with strange tongues continued in the Church, so long you may plead out of this text, that visions and Prophecies had their place: but that hence you should infer that these things have perpetual use in the Church, is most incongruous and inconsequent: since the gift of speaking strange languages is long since ceased, which at that time was more eminent and apparent than Visions and Prophcying. Now that the words of joel, are to be understood of that time only, witnesseth S. 
l Ad Marcellam adversus Montanun.  Hierome, who being urged out of that very text to allow the visions & prophecies of Montanus, saith plainly that the same Prophecy agreeth to the time of the Apostles wherein Peter spoke, and unto none other. And as this maketh nothing for that which you are to prove, if your meaning be to prove any thing, so your mentioning of the Apocalypse maketh less than nothing: for that which john there saw is the last Revelation commended to us by the Lords warrant, and we may not look for any more such, whereupon as on a matter of certainty, we may build our faith. S. john made Canonical Scripture of his Visions, which I trust yours cannot be. Which yet nevertheless you might as well prove, as to make this argument, john did see Revelations & Visions which were from God, & they gave testimony to his doctrine, Ergo you see such, and yours be of that sort. Your Reason from those ancient ones to these of your Papacy, is a bacule ad angulum, tied together with points, most unorderly and vnconcluding. So that to allow you that these kinds of hea●…ly Uis●…s, and thereby to f●…tell things 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is 〈◊〉 ●…gst them who are of the tr●… Ch●…h, I may add, and of such as are immediately inspired from God; is nothing at all to your purpose. When you prove your Vision-seers to have the same warrant, authority and inspiration which the Apostles had, we will readily hearken unto you. But you must take a long day to make that good, as the thirtieth of February, or ad Gr●… Calend●…, and till that time we must look after you.  T. HILL. 
FOr although there have been Prophecies amongst the Heathens, yet were they not undoubtedly true, as the Oracles of Apollo, and such like illusions, except they were for the confirmation of right religion, a●… 
Euseb. li. 5. hist. c. 16. & 18: Cochlaeus in act: Luth.  the Prophecies of the Sibyls and of Balaam. And the same may be said of Heretics 〈◊〉 of Montanus, of Luther, of Muncer, and of such like, who took upon them to prophecy, some to their utter shame, and some to their own destruction.  G. ABBOT. 
2 WE will not much strive with you about the Prophecies among the Heathen, although we doubt not but in ordinary actions of civil affairs, the Devil oftentimes did speak undoubted truth. Which was, the more to draw on and allure those who were the children of unbelief, and repaired to him for counsel, that they might believe him in such other forged matters as were more for his purpose. Else they would never with such frequency have run to his Oracles. And the means whereby Satan attained to that knowledge, was partly by revelation from God, who sometimes imparteth his projects unto the 〈◊〉 Devil, and partly by conjecture of precedent 
〈◊〉 job 2. 6. 〈◊〉. 22. 2●…  necessary signs, which would infer or enforce the effects mentioned in Satan's answer, unless God by miracle did alter the consequents. But it is of irrefragable truth, that to confirm divine Religion, the Lord hath used the mouth of the reprobat, 
〈◊〉 Num. 2●…. 24. c: 24. 2●… 〈◊〉. 17●…  yea of the Devil himself, in foreshowing things to come. 〈◊〉 Balaam prophesied rightly of the Israelites, of the Amalekites, of the Kenites, yea of the coming of Christ himself, the Saviour and victorious conqueror of the world. 〈◊〉 Caiphas truly foretold 
〈◊〉 Ioh: 11: 50  that one should die for the people, and not all the nation perish. And yet both Caiphas and Balaam were the children of perdition. Apollo in his Oracle, which was nothing else but the voice of Satan, did utter many verities: for he was overruled by one who was greater than himself. Let that one instance suffice, which is cited by Lactantius, and falleth fitly upon God, and Christ his son. For 
p Lacta. d●… fals. religion: cap. 7:  Apollo at Colophon being consulted by one to show who or what God was, it was answered, 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉,  
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.   
Born of himself, untaught, without a mother, stable or individed, his name is not expressible by speech, dwelling in the fire. This is God, and we Angles are but a small p●…ce of God. And the like may be said of the Sibyl's, which were ten in number as the same 
q Cap: 6:  Lactantius showeth, and as it may be gathered out of him there, had many things touching the unity and power of God, and of his Creating of the world. And 
r De ira Dei ca: 22: & 23  else where the like are by him mentioned to be delivered from them, as also of the wrath and vengeance of the Lord against sin. Saint 
s De civet. Dei l. 18. 23  Augustine hath in like manner certain verses of Sibilla Erithrea, which are as a Prophecy foretelling and describing the coming of Christ, and are the more notable for that Acrostich 〈◊〉 Christ the S●…e of God, the Saviour, every verse beginning with one letter of those words in the Latin, the 〈◊〉 Original whereof 
〈◊〉 In annot. in eum 〈◊〉.  is cited by L. Vives in the Greek. Neither doth the holy 
t In orat ad sanct cae●…ū. apud Euseb  Emperor Constantine forget to apply to our Saviour, that Ecloge of Virgile which was borrowed from the Dictates of Sibilla 〈◊〉 Cumaea. Yea all the Sibyl's have spoken so plainly of Christ, that 
〈◊〉 Vir. Ecl 4●….  some have imagined them to be of the number of Gods elect, and chosen of purpose out of the Gentiles: but Gregory Nazi●…zene is directly of another judgement, 
u Ad Nemesium.  saying that whereas sometimes they join with the truth, it is not that this happened unto them from God, but because they looked ●…slaunt or squinting-wise on the books of the Scripture. This may be some reason, but I rather suppose, that God who enforced 〈◊〉 Satan to confess Christ to be the son of the Almighty, and so to give 
〈◊〉 Mar: 1: 24  testimony to him among the jews, did also urge these to give witness of Christ's coming among the Gentiles, although the speakers like Caiphas knew not what they said.  
3 Of Montanus and his followers, as also of Priscilla & Maximilla two women, 
y Eccl. hist: lib: 5: 16: 17  Eusebius out of Miltiades and Apollonius maketh mention: that he took on him to be a Prophet, and they to be Prophetesses, and that when they would utter any thing, they were not like true Prophets soberly inspired, and gravely demeaning themselves, but as frantic folks, & persons possessed with an evil spirit. It is added that their behaviour otherwise was full of covetousness, wantonness and vanity. In brief they and their doctrine came to nought: which had been the less to be pitied, had not 
z Hier: adv: Helvidium:  Tertullian, otherwise a worthy man, and a great light in the Church sometimes, been overtaken by them. 〈◊〉 Muncer whom you name was a ringleader of the 
〈◊〉 Sleid: l: 5:  Anabaptists, and he together with one Phiferus his companion, drew together many thousands of people, persuading them that by visions and dreams they were warned from God to do as they did. Among otherthings a little before the joining of a battle, he would have made them believe, that a rainbow which appeared was a sign from heaven that they should prosper. One of his doctrine●… was, that we were to ask signs from God, and that the Lord did much like that we should so demand them, yea and eagerly expostulate with him, if he did not grant them. The end of this man was, that the army which he had assembled of country-people was ruinated, diverse thousands of them slain, he was put to flight, & being taken was executed by the sword. This man could not endure Luther, but publicly preached and inveighed against him; and Luther on the other side detesting his uproars and rebellious sedition, did write against him and his proceed, whiles he was alive, & in his greatest strength. And as Luther nothing respected th●… feigned Visions and Prophecies of Muncer, so did he never assume any such gift unto himself. He would m●…y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 truth which he did 
b Contra Regen Angl●…  teach should ●…sper, which h●… uttered a●… grounding i●… on God's general pro●… that the word like the 〈◊〉 rain from above should not return in vain, and upon the experience 
〈◊〉 Isa: 55: 10:  which he had of the daily spreading of it more & more in his own sight: but t●…t 〈◊〉 mad●… show of any such Revelations as you would fasten upon him, the very author whom at random you ig●…ntly 〈◊〉, shall clear him: for he alle●…ging the speech of one whom he calleth Paulus Abb●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 w●…ng against Luth●…●…ngeth in these words of his: I pray th●… 〈◊〉 thy 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉: 〈◊〉 act. Luther. A●…: 1534:  t●…gh all the 〈◊〉 of L●…r, Th●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in th●…, w●…re L●…her 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the spirit of God, ●…t all his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, all his 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The 〈◊〉 p●…t he addeth, perverting Luther's humble and Christ●…●…ssion that he was tempted by Satan, as all men are, so●… more, some less, to wickedness●… but can a man have a more ample and gen●…all testimony, th●… this is out of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that Luther never took on him the show of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 prophecies? So that which you being against the 〈◊〉 maketh for the truth, & your ow●… tongue or pen doth cause you to fal●…by your own sword you do perish. Luther knew that those were the juggling tricks of your Romish Synagogue and therefore he both wisely & religiously declined them.  T. HILL. 
BUT the C●…ke 〈◊〉 Church, 〈◊〉 had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in all ages, th●… which had tr●… Visions and the gift of true Prop●…, as Agabus, Act. 11. Gregory Thaumaturge so Basil. li. de spiritu sancto. Cap. 29. Saint Anthony the Abb●…, john of wh●… s●… Saint Aug. l. 5. de civet. Cap. 26. Saint Monica s●… Aug. lib. 3. Confes. Cap. 11. Saint Benedict s●… Gregor. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. cap. 15. S. Bernarde see in 〈◊〉 vita, lib. 4 cap. 3. S. Frau●… s●… in eius vita Bo●…ventura, with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, for 〈◊〉 w●… there any w●… had the gift of 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. A●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 s●…y P●… is (〈◊〉 you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) wh●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…tedly w●…erfull 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you ●…y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, wi●… 〈◊〉 and irr●…gable t●…y.  G. A●…T. 
4. IT were worth the while that you should exemplify your visions throughout all ages, as you did yo●… miracles before. But to begin, you do ●…ost discreetly s●… Agabus in the fore. ●…ont, who by the spirit foretold of a 〈◊〉 throughout all 
Act●… 〈◊〉.  the world. And what had he to do I pray you with your uncatholike Romish strumpet? what doctrine did he maintain which is now in your mint? God knoweth, your forge was not yet going when Agabus spike. He●… lived in the time of Visions and Prophecies, and had signific●…tion from the holy Ghost what he should say; from which your Se●… are most far. And the Scripture advoucheth this of him. There is nothing his that may touch you, unless you w●… appl●… 〈◊〉 co●…porall famine foretold by 〈◊〉, and veri●…d vnd●… Claudius Caesar, to note the spiritual famine, which afterward possessed a great part of the world, while the Pope's debarted Christians of the food of their souls, the bread of life, the holy and Sacred Scriptures. Of Gregorius Thaumaturgus, Basile briefly 
〈◊〉 De spiritu Sancto●… cap: 29:  speaketh thus, His predictions of future thing●… were such, that he was nothing inferior to the rest of the Prophets, where observe that h●…e nameth no particular prediction, no revelation. And 
g Socrat. lib: 4: 22:  Socrates speaking of him, briefly toucheth his miracles, but not a word of any Prophecy or Vision. So that this may well be doubted of: 〈◊〉 that so much the rather, because Basile sette●…h his commendation so high, as that n●…ither you, nor any other man can justify it, if you will understand the comparison to be between him, & the Prophets mentioned in God's book, who have for them such sufficient authority as may not be disinherited, whereas without impiety this narration may well 〈◊〉 questioned? Ye●… if this were allowed, you are still as far to seek as before for how will you pro●… that this man believed or maintained your now Romish f●…h? A●…y 〈◊〉 ●…d 〈◊〉 the M●…ke, & the ●…ite, but not othe●…. And of 〈◊〉 it 〈◊〉 ●…oned, that he saw in a vision 
〈◊〉 So●… 6: 5:  som●… ov●…ing th●… holy 〈◊〉, and sacred table, which was 〈◊〉 expo●…d of the 〈◊〉. But ●…ke I pray you 〈◊〉, that he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and devoid of all learning, and 
Lib. 1. 13.  therefore his 〈◊〉 are not m●…h to be built upon. Secondly that he had little, or nothing in him s●…ing with Popery: for the monkish life of him and others in those days was of a most different sort from these our belly gods, who would never have endured to li●… as those old hermits; and their profession & religion is much disagreeing. Thirdly that although it be said of him, that by the help of so gre●… virtues, he had attained divine foreknowledge, yet the same Author addeth farther that to fore-kn●… things to come, he himself did not accounted to be 〈◊〉 the number of virtues. And therefore he did gi●… 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rashly should bestow hi●… time & labour in that matter. Bec●…●…ā which was ignorant of future matters, should suffer ●…y 〈◊〉, because he was ignorant of them, neither did he th●…ke, that he who did foreknow them, was therefore blessed, or to be a●…red. He then did not make so much of it, as you do. And so it appeareth that you ha●… but ill luck with the examples which you bring.  
5 Concerning john, S. 
k De civet. Deil: 5: 26:  Austen saith that Theodosius being to fight against Maximus, did not sand to enchanters but to john, who abode in the wilderness of Egypt; which servant of God he had learned by common report, to be endued with the spirit of Prophesying, & from him saith he, ●…e received a most certain message of victory. All this while, what maketh this for the Church of Rome, more thě for the Anabaptists, or any other who wilchalenge him? Monica 
l Confess: 3: 11.  S. Austin's mother much grieving that her son was a Maniche●…, did weep & pray ince●…tly for his conversion. At last being in a dream, she imagined that she stood upon a wooden ruler, & a young man with a merry countenance came to her, and asked her why she was so sad, She answered that she bewailed her sons destruction. To which he replied, that she should be of good cheer, for where 〈◊〉 was, h●… son was. And looking about she saw her son stand on the same rulet with her, which impor●… to her, that 〈◊〉 should in time come to the Orthodox. In this virtuous woman you can have no interest, unless it be that according to the 
m Lib. 6. 〈◊〉.  custom in Africa her country, she brought meat & drink as to make a banquet at the memory of some martyrs, which I take to be their tombs; but therefore she was rebuked & forbidden by that reverend Bishop Ambrose, accounting her fact to be but an imitation of the heathen; unto which inhibition of his, she with quietness did consent. Of 
n Gregor▪ Dialog. lib. 〈◊〉: 15.  Benedict we do find, that he foretold many matters to To●…la the King of the Goths, that he should enter Rome, reign 9 years, & die the 10. And he also foresignified to a Bishop the desolation of Rome, & in what manner it should be, of what credit the book is whence this is taken, I have spoken before. That which is cited of S. 
o Vita nern. lib. 4. 3.  Bernard is this, that he foretold, that albeit a Prince called Theobald had many troubles from his enemies, yet at 5. month's end he should have peace. Also he acquainted a certain messenger sent unto him, that he the same messenger should become a monk. And such like are the Visions & predictions reported of him, which as the writer of his life taking them up on heare-saies might fasten upon him, to make his life & story the more famous (for this or the like was the order for all the Saints) so may it not well be questioned, whether God in this later age would give such an excellent gift as prophecy is, to so small a purpose, as only to tell such matters of so small moment, belonging to single yea & some private men only. 
p Alois Lippoman, in in vitis Sanctorum.  The life of their Francis written by Bonaventura, is so foolish & yet so blasphemous a thing, as it is fit to be exploded then refuted. There he telleth that this hypocrite had a vision of certain crumbs, which betokened the increase of his society of Franciscanes: & to ratify this, he had 5. wounds set on him by God, like the wounds of our Saviour, & this was a confirmation of his order, as if he the Pope had imprinted some seal on it, & allowed it. He hath afterward a Chapter De divinis condescensionibus ad nutum factis, as if he could have revelations from heaven at the least beck of his. Yea he saith of him that he could understand the secrets of men's hearts. These reports as among fools they add much to the worship of that Friar: So among the wisest they appear to detract much from the peculiar honour of CHRIST and his Father. These are the examples which you bring unto us, whereof there are few which so much as in show make aught at all for your Popery: and there is none of them, but in that particular lieth to manifest exception. So that your miracles and visions may in like sort be rejected, as uncertain, fraudulent, feigned, and communicable to the wicked as well as to the godly, and such mayserue to uphold falsehood as much as truth. In the Scripture they who had the one gift from God, many times had the other joined with it: but that always was not so for aught that I find, and whether it were or were not, it maketh not to your purpose. Your Papistical visions in our days are either diabolical illusions, or the inventions of cozeners, whose sufficient and irrefragable testimony, is nothing else but the doting fancy of some melancholic person, or the lewd devise of other who would make themselves famous, or else project something for the establishing of plotted purposes. And if any go about to sift them or rifle them up, they have no other warrant but to strengthen than, with such other reports, as uncetaine, & of as feeble a relation as the first, & so on, on with twenty, even as the liar in 
q Lucian. in ●…hilopseud.  Lucian doth: or as it is the manner of figure-casters, to commend their practice; or as it was wont to be in tales of the walking of the spirits, & of chambers wherein no man might dare to lie, in all which, the confirmation of one tale, was still by telling such another fable, that so one might strengthen another. We need no better example of the goodness of this stuff, then blind 
r Motiv. 7:  bristol reports in this behalf, who would insinuate that one M. Allington, a Papist belike had wonderful sights, yet he will not tell us what, but sendeth us up and down London, and we may hear of them. So you know divers and sundry Papists, who have seen undoubtedly wonderful visions, which perhaps we may see recorded hereafter. You do well to say perhaps, for it would be a good while first, unless it come out against your will, as somewhat hath done, whereof you shall hear anon: but if you would put it out, it would be a brave book for winter nights in steed of a new legend. Another of M. bristol fabulations is, that one who was a Papist in heart, being at an English Communion, saw the Devil in the likeness of a fowl black Dog, take the Communion still at the hand of the Minister, as he delivered it to the communicants. What luck our Papists have, that they alone can so oft see the Devil? And they alone can have the Devils in them, which find work for the exorcists? He is simple that seethe not, that this was a devise to drive men from the participation of the Lords supper. A third he hath, that a great many Communion books lying in a sick man's chamber, were caught up by a fire which seemed to have many hands, & so were thrown into a flame. He who will so lightly bestow so much of his belief as to credit this, may demur upon this action, whither it were not the Devils own deed, who cannot away with the Communion book, & therefore burneth it, not because it is bad, but because it is against him: & so have his disciples done. And the like may be expounded of the black dog before, not enduring that the people should participate of those holy mysteries. It might also be asked, what so many Communion books did in one Chamber? Notwithstanding we rather hold all these things to be human fictions, or if they were done, to be diabolical illusions.  
6 BUT here to come nearer the state of this wise Reason, It is most true that there was a time when visions & dreams, & Prophecies were of good force, God using to do by his children as job speaketh, that is, talketh to them in 
s job. 33. 15.  dreams, & visions of the night, when sleep falleth upon them, & they sleep upon their beds. So 
s G●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉:  Abimilech was warned in a dream to abstain from Sara, & 
t Cap 28 ●…2  lacob had his dream of the ladder, & 
u 1: Reg: 3. 5  Solomon was willed in a dream to ask what he would. And of this sort we find very many other, which advertised men of the Lords special will in many particulars. In like manner there is warrant for divers visions, as when God comforted 〈◊〉 jacob in a Vision, & when he appeared to 
〈◊〉 Gen. 46: 3  
x 1 Sam 3●… 1  Samuel, professing what judgement he would bring upon the house of ●…li. So in the new Testament, 
y Act 1▪ 3:  Cornelius & 
z Cap. 9 121  Ananias had their visions. And for Prophesying, Moses & all other who were so inspired from the Lord, do sufficiently speak. And yet even in those days we find that it was not safe, to trust all things which came in the n●…me of prophesyings & visions & dreams. For there were false Prophets as is plain by 
a 1. Reg: 22: 11.  Zidkiah & many more. And jeremy schooleth the people, 
b jer. 27. 9:  Hear not your Prophets, nor your so●…thsayers, nor your dreamers, who say unto you thus, Ye shall not serve the King of Babel, for they prophesy a lie unto you. And in another place he saith of other, 
c Cap.: ●…3: 10. & ●…5.  They speak the vision of their own heart, & not out of the mouth of the Lord. And afterward God saith, I have heard what the Prophets said, that prophecy lies in my name, saying I have dreamt, I have dreamt. This is then a dangerous thing for credulous people to be deceived by, unless they change their judgement & be very wary. God therefore addeth farther, 
d Vers. 28.  The Prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream & he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. It is then God's word faithfully looked into, which must be the direction to the speaker & the hearer. Else how soon might men be deceived? That 
e 1: Reg. 13. 9: 18.  Prophet of the Lord may verify this, who himself was quickly beguiled through credulity, at the instance of another Prophet, 
f Nehem. 6● 10.  persuading him directly against Gods will revealed unto him. Notwithstanding Nehemiah being wiser, when he might have been so catched by Shemiah pretending a revelation, did not hearken unto him, but looked to that duty which was commanded him. And that was it wherein men's spirit of discretion did consist in those days; to look whether they furthered the Lords service or no, when they spoke, & whether other approved circumstances did concur; for in other general matters the good & the bad, might externally seem to join. The place of 
g Deuter. 13. 1:  Deuteronomy is in this behalf worth the considering, where it is said that a Prophet may come, or a dreamer of dreams, and may give a sign or a wonder, & that also may come to pass, & yet he may be a deceaver drawing to false Gods, and is not to be followed. Then even in those times, visions, dreams, & prophesyings taken in themselves were but tickle things to rest on, neither had they any sure ground, but from the word, by which they were to be tried. That without them was forcible, they disagreeing from it were nothing.  
7 But now since that Christ is come, we are taught in no sort to depend upon them: for the doctrine is general, & concerning all things, 
h Hebr. 1. 1●  At sundry times & in divers manners God spoke in the old time to our fathers by the Prophets, In these last days he hath spoken unto us by his son, which Antithesis doth intend, that miracles & all means saving the word of Christ, are now cut off, from resting our undoubted faith thereupon. But in special touching visions & miracles, when the 
i Luc. 16: 29.  Rich man is brought in, as desiring that Lazarus might strangely be sent, or appear as a ghost, or in some vision, to warn his brethren, our Saviour frameth Abraham's answer, They have Moses and the Prophets, let them hear them, as holding that alone to be sufficient, and cutting of all other points, from being matters of certainty, where-on to rest our faith and souls. And yet as it was said of Miracles before, we deny not, but that after the ascension of Christ, & the death of the Apostles, some & seldom times visions might be showed to some of the elect, for their private instruction, satisfaction or comfort, as 
k Eus. Eccl. Histor 4. 14  Polycarpus did dream that he should be burnt for Christ, & 
l Lib. 5: 27:  Natalius by stripes given him, or seeming to be given him by Angels, was revoked from heresy to an Orthodox opinion, & so was 
m Hier: epist 22▪ ad Eust:  Hierom from overmuch studying Tully & human learning: & 
n Theo: 516  Theodosius did dream that he should be Emperor. Where observe we two things: first that these visions were touching private men's ma●…ere, & not to teach; & much less to broach any new or uncertain doctrine to the Church: for which purpose our Papists do urge their visions, & especially to establish Purgatory & the appurtenances thereunto. Secondly that albeit in some few God did this, yet it was not laid down as a fundamental matter, that there should always in the Church be such persons, neither might any man presume to say that continually there should be such a vocatiō●… neither could any person by an assured faith promise himself or other, that he should have such sights or predictions; neither is there any Commandment to test ought in religion thereupon: but rather there is much more to the contrary. For we hear often of false Prophets, & Christ biddeth us 
o Mat 7: 15  beware of them. Before that Jerusalem should be destroyed, which is a figure of the end of the world, he saith that 
p Cap 24: 11  many false Prophets should arise, & should deceive many. And if the rule be true that where miracles be, there also are visions, them it is one of Antichrists mark, to stand on dreams & apparitions: for we are told that he shall come 
q 2: The: 2 9  with all power & signs & lying wonders. But to put all out of question it is added, that his manifestation shall be with all deceiveableness of unrighteousness, & therefore we may rightly collect that these visions or rather fraudulent fictious, and illusions must not be wanting. How shall we then judiciously imagine, that this may be a reason to conclude for truth, when itself is fully out as much communicable to untruth? It were easy to show, that among heathen men this was a fraud used to set colours upon their actions. The conference of 〈◊〉 Numa with Egeria 
〈◊〉 Liv. lib: 11  the Nymph about his laws; The daily going of 
s Id. lib: 26:  Scipio into the Capitol, as if he had talked with jupiter; the dreams of Alexander and other prodiges expounded by 
s Curt. lib. 4. & 7.  Aristander; the hart or hind which 
t Plut in Sertorio.  Sertorius pretended to come to him as a messenger from the Gods, do come within this compass, and are directly here appliable, or at the least equivalent to that which is now handled. As for Mahomet, he is in the belief of his followers, inferior to no Prophet that ever spoke, his whole Alcorane being nothing else, but instructions pretended to be delivered by apparitions. And therefore it is 
u Coel. Aug: Curio. Sarac. hist: l. 1●…  written of him, that sometimes he would say, that the Angel Gabriel was often times sent to him: & being much troubled with the falling sickness, he bore those in hand which were about him, that his fits were trances, he was in soul wrapped up into heaven, & he was inspired from God to teach diverse duties unto men. In brief this is it, wherein not only the old 
u Eus. l. 5. 16.  Montanists did take on them to excel, & Merline, to whom as 
x In praefat.  Neubringensis saith, G●…lfridus Monumethensis doth attribute no less, than we do to Isaiah, saving that it is not inserted into Merlines prophecy, Thus saith the Lord. But the Anabaptists herein will put down the whole world, for they with sad countenance, & a little less than ravished looks, would protest that they had 
y Sleid l. 10  illuminations, revelations, apparitions for all their lewd conceits, their having wives as many as they list, their oppugning of magistrates, their murdering of their own brethren, as one did at 〈◊〉 Sangallum, cutting 
〈◊〉 Surius. Com: Ann: 1527.  of his brother's head in the presence of his father and mother, and affirming that God had revealed unto him that so he must do. And how shall it be in man's power, to discern these false visions from true ones, but by the word and spirit of God, & by singular diligence: which since it cannot be in every one, the allowing of these visions & dreams, is most dangerous for Christians. First it is possible that a man himself either sleeping or waking may be deluded by Satan, which as concerning illusions by dreams, 
a Mor: 8: 13:  Gregory notably showeth to be true, & giveth warning to take heed of them. And secondly how easy a thing is it for a cunning companion who is his craftsmaster, to invent such tales, & to swear them also, as he did who affirmed that he 
b Liv: lib: 1:  saw the ghost of Romulus at Rome? In Popery there were thousands and ten thousands of these inventions, thereby to establish their Masses, Dirges, Tran. substantiation, Purgatory, and such stuff, and by these the simple were extremely beguiled, their belief corrupted, and their purses picked. They who could write that Saint 
c NOV. leg: Angl. in vita Dunstan.  Dunstane when he was awake, saw the Devil and talked with him a while, and at last with a pair of tongues red hot caught him by the face, pulled him toward him, and made him most pitifully cry, would little blush to report other matters of men, half or quite a sleep, of which sort are the visions in the Saints lives. God Almighty hath done much for us, who hath so far opened our understanding as to see that this is draff, and that the Papists are in miserable case, who rest their faith and religion on such trumpery.  
8 That the visions of the Papacy were such fabulous fictions, wise men did long since discover. 
d Libello contra hypocritas.  Leonardus Aretinus hath a treatise against the Clergy of his age, but covered under the show of impugning of hypocrites. Among other their usages he rehearseth this: It is worth the while to hear an hypocrite preaching amongst women, or amongst men so foolish, that they do not much differ from women. Here are the fit auditors for their fables. He counterfeiteth dreams: as if he were come from thence, he talketh of the houses of heaven, which he hath never seen. With most shameless impudency he doubteth not to affirm, things feigned for things done, things never seen for those which have been seen. The women infatuated with these words, return home, they extol him as a holy man, and a friends of God, they send him presents, they return unto him with a greater company. By this means very good cheer is made. His iourneces puff up his nose, that is as I think fill him with new matter. He in the mean time like a Poet doth devise dreams which he may report. Thus did some of them invent matter touching themselves, and some that which concerned other men. And oftentimes the wit of one went not alone, but there were meeting & conspiracies to frame devises for purposes. The matter of 〈◊〉 Elizabeth Barton the Nun 
〈◊〉 Acta Parl. sub Hen: 8. An. 25: c: 12  in Kent, was so used in the days of King Henry the 8: when among her companions, much was spread to commend her sanctity, many things divulgated of her visions, and all the country was set a gogge upon her words: yea Fisher himself the Bishop of Rochester, either disloyally and dishonestly as concealing, or ignorantly and simply as believing, was a partaker in that forgery. But the matter was nothing but to discountenance the king's divorce from the Queen Katherine of Spain, formerly his brother Prince Arthures wife, and to stir the people to rebellion thereupon. And at last all was confessed by the Nun herself and other her Complices, and by Act of Parliament many therefore were attainted, and accordingly received punishment. If they should be well examined, the Visions which are fathered on Philippus Nerius of whom I spoke before, and who not 〈◊〉 many 
〈◊〉 An: 1595.  years since died at Rome, would prove to be of this quality. Divers of his friends 
g Eius vitae l: 1 An: 1556  dying are said to appear unto him, & he saw their souls immediately passing into the kingdom of heaven. Nay 
h An: 1559:  Christ himself was seen of him. And as he saw Visions for other, so other saw some for him; whence we may learn that false lads need no other brokers than themselves. This Philip and his fellows had pretended to go into India to convert souls, but one 
i An: 1557:  Augustinus Ghettinus a Monk and confederate of his, saw john the Evangelist in a Vision, who told him that Rome must be Philip's Indies, that he was chosen to dress God's vineyard there. Thus they packed together, that their credit might be saved, and yet they might sleep at home in a whole skin also. Since that time Father Weston alias edmund's the jesuite, and his fellows the Priests have made great use of Visions in England, especially by the means of one Richard meinie who since by confession on his 
k A declaration of Popish Impostures: Confes. of●… meinie.  oath, hath discovered all to be but an impure and most cozening juggling devise. It was long believed touching him, that he saw a glistering light come from the thumbs and fore fingers of the Priests at sundry times; which was devised to make the world believe, that those thumbs and fingers were most holy matters, being anointed with holy oil when they were made Priests. In a trance of his he said he was in Purgatory, and reported many strange things thereof, Also he foresaw that from that time till Good-Fryday he should have Visions every Sunday, and this with like fraud was accomplished, sometimes it being prophesied that Papists should sustain great persecutions in England: and sometimes it being related that Christ with great multitudes of Angels, or the Virgin Marie with trains of blessed, Virgins, were present in the Chamber, and then down the standers by must on their knees, to worship them & pray to them. One part of Mainies foresightes was that on the Good-friday he should die, but when that day came he was warned that it must be otherwise, & so indeed the dead man is alive yet, & hath disclosed the whole devise. Yet the shameless jesuite above named wrote a whole choir of paper concerning these Visions of his, and many a silly Papist both be hither and beyond the seas, have been bobbed with the strange reports of these counterfeit Revelations, & perhaps have believed them as they would do their Creed. Many examples more in this kind might be produced, which may teach men not to be too credulous in these conceits, which evermore originally come upon the report of one person, for he it is who must tell his own dream or Vision, and easy it is for some reporters themselves to be deluded by the Devil: as easy for some other to delude as many as will give credit unto them. Then since both Divinity and humanity do show this to be a matter most suspect, let Papists accept this for a weak reason of their unsound belief: we for our parts will have nothing to do with it.  
9 And yet it is not amiss, before the shutting up of this Chap. to observe, that they are always beaten with their own rod. For if we may attribute any thing to those, whom in the last ages they hold for the greatest Prophets, & most authentical seers of Visions, Popery is all nought. For we scant find any who in a general speech is reported to have had that gift, but a great part of his other talk hath been against the Papacy & Clergy thereof. 
l Catalogue. ●…estium ve●…at. lib: 15:  Hildegardis was by many held to be a prophetess, and she did not only tax the lewd life of the Romish Priests, but their neglect of Ecclesiastical duty, & their horrible destroying of the Church of God. Among other words she hath these: Then the metre of the Apostolic honour shall be divided, because no religion shall be found in the Apostolicalorder, & for that cause shall they lightly esteem the dignity of that name, & shall set up unto themselves other men & archbishops: so that the keeper of the see Apostolic at that time by the diminishing of his honour shall scant have Rome & a few things adjoining under his mitre. About the same time also which is more than 400. years agone, lived 
m Ibide●….  Mech●…hildis reputed all so for a prophetess. And she speaking of contentions which should be in Germany for religion, addeth that them the church of Rome, should wholly apostate openly from the faith of Christ, & that there should remain in Germany a poor & afflicted company who should serve God religiously & purely. There was also one 
n Ibidem.  Elizabeth a maiden & attendant on Hildegardis, who is recorded to have such predictions & invectives against the Romanists. The Prophecies of joachimus Abbess, & Anselmus termed Episcopus Marsicanus, are lately 
o An. 1589:  put out at Venice by Paschalinus Regiselmus, & there is the Pope still pictured in his triple crown, and he hath part, nay seemeth to be the chief in all the iniquity there intended. Brigit who lived about the year 1370. is by our Papists held for a famous prophetess, and by the Pope she is Canonised for a Saint. In her 
p Catalogs lib. 18.  Revelations, she calleth the Pope a killer of souls, the disperser & tearer of the sheep of jesus Christ. She saith that he is more abominable than the jews, more cruel than judas, more vui●…st then Pelate, worse and viler than Lucifer himself. That the seat of the Pope shall be drowned in the deep like a heavy stone. That those who sit with him shall be burned in fire of brimstone which is not to be quenched. Thus did she and many other scour the Church of Rome, which as it seemeth, Doctor Hill knew well enough, and therefore suppressed the names of these, lest he should be thought to mention those who flattered the Popedom. Savanorola by the confession of unpartial judges was a man who fore-prophecied many things. He foretold the coming of Charles the 8. the French King into Italy, & how there he should prevail. Philippus 
q De bello Neapolitan. lib. 3.  Comineus spoke with him in person, at such time as the Venetians had thought with their army to have entercepted Charles returning homeward with no great forces. And Comineus saith of high that himself coming new from the hench army, yet was by him informed of many things there done, Savanorola knowing them better being absent, than he did who was present And he told Comineus that albeit Charles his master were hardly laid to by the Venetians, yet he should escape with safety: only his fault was that by the sword he did not reform and redress the abuses of the Clergy at Rome. In brief, he still preached against the Romanists and wrote diverse things excellently and learnedly which yet appear. But being such a scourge unto them, the Pope 
r Gui●…iard hist. lib. 3.  excommunicated him, and forbade him to preach: whereunto when he assented not, they caused a tumult to be raised in the City, apprehended him and imprisoned him, put him to torture, and gave out such a confession of his as they listed, but in the end they burnt him, where with singular patience he yielded his body to the fire, and his soul to God Almighty. From all these & many more I draw this Conclusion, contrary to that of my adversary before urged, That if such as have been esteemed for Prophets in this last age, have had any such gift indeed, and any matter may be built on them, than the Church of Rome is a strumpet, full of corruptions, pollutions, abominations, as the very den of Antichrist. And so rest they with their Visions, and sit they with their Prophecies.   

THE EIGHTH REASON. Scriptures.  T. HILL. 
NEither may here the Protestant reply and say, that the Papists build upon Miracles, Uisions, Prophecies and upon such like, but not upon the UUorde; for all that they allege, are most agreeable to the word of God. Neither do they teach any doctrine but such as is derived out of the holy Bible.  G. ABBOT. 
HOw you build upon the Scriptures, and what account you make of the word of God, we need no better man to declare then yourself, who do evidently show to all the world, in what reverend esteem you have the sacred Oracles of the Lords book, when you think this to be a fit place to speak of the Scriptures, after your false imputed name of Catholics, your Uanity and Cozening, your Perverting of Consciences, your lying Miracles, and other your not base, but most base and refuse stuff. And as you do place it worthily, so you insist upon it largely, in this your whole Pamphlet consisting of an 187. Pages, allowing not full out one leaf unto that, which is the 
a Luk. 10: 42  Unum necessarium, the sole anchor of our hope, the foundation of our confidence, the joy of our hearts. Wherein you do as your grand Captains do teach you, who use but mean speeches concerning this word of God, yea and your Conventicle of 
b Session: 4.  Trent wickedly equalling and making of the same authority the traditions of men with the written Scripture; which sacrilegious impiety and impure blasphemy, while your auditors do not perceive & decline, they show themselves not only blinded but bewitched with the cup of the 
c Apoc: 17: 21  whores enchantments. And even with the like reverence you do use it here, as it were casting it into an odd corner, and naming it no otherwise, but as to fill up your number, so skirting by it, or skipping over it as the 
d Pli: l. 8. 40 Solin: c: 25  dogs in Egypt do by the river Nilus, where they dare not stand and drink, but lap as they run, and run as they lap for fear of a Crocodile. So when you come to the Scripture, you will stand to nothing, but touch and go, for fear lest some thing should here start out, which should devour you and your Popery. If you had been a man of metal, if there had been aught in the Bible assuredly making for you, you should from thence have cleared some question, as the sacrifice of your Mass, the Supremacy of your Pope, the lawfulness of your Priesthood, or one thing or another questioned and controversed, & not have dealt by it, as one would handle thorns, or take a coal of fire in his hand, being glad when he is first rid of it. Well, we must bear with you for your brevity in this Chapter: but for the manner of this your placing, I cannot choose but smile, to think how you were troubled in this your short consultation, whither you should now be beholding to Campian, or to your old Master Bristol: for borrow needs you must: that is your profession: & Bristol you must not leave, no not for a little moment, especially since 
e Motiv: 8●…  somewhere he hath these very matters: And yet notwithstanding some variety of stealing would do well: not all out of Bristol. The resolution than grew that Campians conciseness was fit here for your humour, and his very words you would use. But to set them as the 
f Cam. Rat. 〈◊〉.  jesuit did, in the forefront of your book, were to lay yourself too open; for some body might have taken his book, and first read it out of Latin, and then your first Chapter if it had been your first Chapter, and read it in English. To satisfy both then, you took this honest course, that the words should be Campians, and the Method should be bristol, you placing the treatise of the Scripture behind, as worthy Bristol had done before you. This showeth that you have a pretty wit of your own. To come now to the matter, our reply is in truth as you say, that the sandy foundation of all your rotten building doth rest upon uncertainties, your miracles are most feigned, your visions are forged, your Prophecies false, all of them out of date, no enforcement of verity to be gathered from them. And on the otherside, you have little acquaintance with the word of God, neither by your good wills do you desire it. That which you do, you are urged unto by us, and then you wrist, you wring, you strain, you stretch, to make some show for that, which originally is drawn from your human inventions. And when it is once set up, than you labour to have some colour to warrant it, or at least to make some gloze how simple folk may take it for good payment. Your works of supererogation, whereby a man may do more than deserve heaven for himself, and have somewhat to spare for other, your dispensation of the treasure of your Church by the Indulgences of your Pope, your Canonizing of Saints, your creating of Lumbus, your forging of Purgatory, & a multitude more or rabble rather of upstart novelties since the age of the Apostles, are derived from the tricks of their wit, who have made their purse, their belly, and their worldly pompous honour to be their God, their summum & solum bonum. As for the sacred word, from thence they are not taken; unless you mean that they be so derived out of the holy Bible, as that they were never in it; & so we deny not, but your superstition may be taken out of it. But were these controversed matters but probably to be collected out of the sacred Oracles, you would not run to such beggarly shifts, as in this whole Pamphlet of yours, you are driven unto. They must make a show with Counters, & carry about them a purse full stuffed with them, who want gold and silver, & yet cannot for bear, but they will be craking.  T. HILL. 
ANd for the maintaining thereof, they are not compelled to deny certain parts of God's holy Book, as the Protestants and their Prede▪ 
Aug. lib. 28▪ con faust c: 2. & de util. cred. cap. 3.  cessours, heretics, have been enforced to do. The Manichees for that their heresies were so manifestly confuted by the Gospel of Saint Matthew, and by the Acts of the Apostles, as they sold coin no answer, nor other shift, they denied them to be Scripture. The Ebionites because the Epistles of Saint Paul disproved most plainly Circumcision, which they maintained, denied them to be Scripture. Luther rejected the Epistle of S. james, because it was so plain against the doctrine of only faith. His offspring refused the Books of Tobias, of Ecclesiasticus, of the Maccabees and of some others, because in them is plainly taught the Doctrine of the custody of Angels, of Free-will, of Prayer for the Faithful Souls departed, and of Prayer to Saints, all which they deny, and therefore must they needs deny those parts of the holy Bible.  G. ABBOT. 
2 YOu charge us with denying of some parts of Gods holy book, as not making for us: and certainly we should repute ourselves men impious and irreligious, if we took any thing away from that which is so absolute, that it may well be compared to a Circle, where if any thing be added, it maketh a baulk, if any thing be subtracted, it maketh a brack. We do right well know, that he who taketh away aught from the word of the everlasting God, the Lord shall take away his 
g Apoc. 22. 19  portion out of the book of life, (for the speech may be applied to the whole Scripture as well as to S. john's Revelation) But we will you to remember the other part of the holy Ghosts division, that God shall add the 
h Vers. 18.  plagues written in that book, to him who addeth aught to the book of the Lord. When therefore you labour to establish that for authentical, which is not inspired from the holy Ghost, but a matter separate & seiunct, you may justly fear lest you incur that peril, which you would post of to us. What heretics have done against the Divine volume, we dislike and detest as well as you. We condemn it in the 
i August de utilit. credend cap. 2: & 3:  Manichees that they accepted not the old Testament; that they questioned the Gospel of Saint Matthew as not being that which S. Matthew wrote, because it manifestly showed that Christ was born a man, which they denied; that they extenuated the authority of the Acts of the Apost. as being much corrupted. For this their-sacrilegious attempt, we censure them as deep lie, & condenne them as much as you do. The like mind we do carry of the 
k Euse: Eccl. Hist▪ l: 3: 21:  Ebionits', whose opinions sprung up in the time of the Evang. S. john, & they would gladly have retained circumcision still, as being a necessary duty of the Law, & that which Christ & his Apostles had received in their own people. And because S. Paul's Epistles had so directly oppugned this their conceit, as also had showed the whole ceremonial law to be extinguished, they would clean have expunged them out of the Canon. We repute these for evil heretics, & we accept of all the books of the old Testament, which can be proved to be the Testament, & we question nothing of the New. Only as you would not like, if unto the new Testament the Gospel of Nicodemus, or Hermes his Apocryphal Pastor should be sewed, so we cannot endure that those tracts should be reputed part of the Hebrews Canon, which the jews never knew. These 2. Periods of the Manichees & Ebionits', as also the 2. next touching Luther & his offspring, you have translated word for word out of Campians first Reason. And if there had been in you grace, & an indifferent mind, you might also have seen this slander concerning Luther 
l Gul. Wh●…taken Resp. ad Ration. Campiani●…  answered. But your meaning is to be wilfully blind. There is nothing more false than that Luther rejected the Epistle of james. He acknowledged it as Scripture, & cited it as he did other books. And how shamefully was Campian put to his plunges, when having Luther's works laid before him, & being bid turn to that place, where Luther so depressed & vilefied that Epistle, he could find no such thing, but said it was so in a copy of Luther's works which was at prague in the emperors Library. And if any had sought it there, than the book had been removed to some other place, as the 
m Munsten Cosmogr: l: 2:  tree which Aeneas Silvius saith was sought in divers countries, & still miss; that tree I mean whose leaves falling into the river, were turned into Barnacles. You might do well in behalf of Campian to show some one of Luther's followers in Germany, Demmarke or elsewhere, who is so opposite to S. james his Epistle: for those whom some call the Rigidi Lutherani, do sink nothing which he held. Since then both they & we, & all who profess the reformed Religion, do accounted it Canonical, it is but an idle speculation to make that objection. And why should Luther fly that book as crossing the doctrine of only faith, since all other who maintain that doctrine, do accept of that Epi. also. S. james doth not thwart that which S. Paul had taught: for the spirit of God is not contrary to itself, & if there be any difficulty in one 
n Iac: 2: 24:  single text of that Epistle, it is to be explicated out of other places, which are more clear & open. S. Paul than in his Epistles to the Romans & Galathians, hath so manifested that point of justification by faith alone, that he who without prejudice will read the text, shall never need any Commentary. It is so plain that divers Papists looking into that, & laying aside false and perverted glosses, have embraced that doctrine. 
o Sleidan. l: 21:  Vergerius who intended to write against Luther in that Argument, was by traversing of it, caught himself. Nay Ferus and Albertus Pighius who otherwise is a gross Papist, have subscribed unto it. And whereas our Papists object, that S. Paul saying that a man is justified without the works of the law, doth mean nothing else but the ceremonial law; that is long since refuted & resolved by S. 
p Aug: de spirit. & litter, cap, 14:  Austen otherwise. The same father also doth notably show, that there is no contrariety between the two 
q In 83, quaest, c. 76.  Apostles; for that when S. james doth say that a man is justified by works, he doth no more cross S. Paul, than the same Apostle doth cross himself 
r Rom. 2. 13.  saying, The hearers of the Law are not righteous before God: but the doers of the Law shall be justified. That it is most true which S. Paul hath, that a man is justified by faith without works, because no works done before believing, help toward justification: but that in believing actually a man is reputed just before God, & that if he die immediately, having no time to work, yet he by believing is justified: Notwithstanding that if he live he ought to bring forth good fruit. His conclusion is that S. Paul doth speak of works going before faith, & S. james speaketh of works following that faith which hath justified. And a right belief will not be without them, if it have time to show itself. I might here add how frequent a thing it is, with divers Doctors of the Church, to use the word of only faith in speaking of our justification; but of that hereafter. Then to show that neither Luther nor we need fear the Epistle of S. james, as crossing our other doctrine, we say that S. Paul doth speak of acceptation to be just, S. james intendeth a declaration that we are justified: the one beateth on that before God, where the settled apprehension of faith prevaileth, which notwithstanding will not be without his convenient fruit; the other mentioneth that before men, who know not the heart, but must judge of that which is external, & therefore it is rightly said by the Apostle, in their persons, 
s 〈◊〉, 2. 18.  Show me the faith out of th●…e own works.  
3 Whom you mean by the offspring of Luther we cannot telled but if all who refuse those books be termed his offspring, his children shallbe a thousand years elder than himself; for many of the most ancient fathers did disclaim the books of Tobias, Ecclesiasticus, & the Maccabees for being Canonical. & if the rule of 
s Hist, Ecol, lib, 3. 19,  Eusebius he good, (as no wise man will deny it), that the Canonical volumes may be distiguished from the Apocryphal & suppositious, by the judgement of the church, by the style, by the matter & purpose of the books, they had great reason not to acknowledge them; for the Church uniformly did never admit them, & they are not written in the language of the jews, to whom 
t Rom. 3, 2.  were committed the Oracles of God, & therefore if they were part of God's Oracles before the coming of Christ, these jews should have admitted them and retained them: which they did not: and the matter of them is but mean and ignoble in comparison of the undoubted Scripture. What a doubtful narration is that in 
u Cap. 6. 17  Tobias, that a spirit should smell a perfume, (when spirits have no flesh & bones, by the testimony of 
u Luc: 24. 39  Christ himself, & consequently no organs of sce) & that the heart & liver of a fish should drive away the Devil? Which if it were so, S. Peter was much overseen, when he taught us how to repulse Satan, by 
x 1 Pet. 5: 9  resisting him being steadfast in the faith. For it had been an easier way to have said, get you the heart & liver of such a fish, & make a perfume with it, & he dareth not come nigh you. And this would well have beseemed S. Peter to set men to catch such fish, in remembrance of his own occupation, since himself was a fisher. But what if young Toby had met with such a spirit, as those were of whom Christ saith, 
y Matth. 17. 21.  This kind goeth not out but by fasting and prayer? The treatise called Ecclesiasticus, if for any cause it should come into the Canon, it must be for salomon's sake, whom many would have to be the author of it. But the Preface itself remaineth, confessing it to be the work of jesus Siraches son, & of another jesus his grande-father: and the book mentioneth 
z Cap: 48. & 46.  Elias, Ezechias, josias, jeremy & divers other, who lived hundreds of years after Solomon. And how questionable a narration is that in it, that 
a Cap 46. 20:  Samuel should tell of Saules death after his own burial, which as divers learned men think, is a report to be believed in Necromancy rather than in Divinity. For if the souls of the righteous being departed, be in the hand of God, which our Romanists must confess out of the book of 
b Cap: 3. 1:  Wisdom, & we do believe out of the saying of David 
c Psal 31. 5.  Into thine hand I commend my spirit, if those who die in the Lord, 
d Apoc: 14: 13:  do rest from their labours, how shall we suppose that the soul of such an excellent Prophet as Samuel was, might be at the command of so base & vile a witch, to be fetched from heaven at her pleasure? Or what rest shall other faithful men and women be imagined to have after this life, if Necromancers, Witches and Conjurers have such power over them? Albeit therefore that some of the ancient speaking according to the 
e 1. Sam: 2●…: 15:  letter of the text, do name him who appeared, Samuel, because he came up in the likeness of Samuel, as 
f Epistol. 80.  Basile when he saith that the Witch raised Samuel from the dead, and some other not sifting the point do affirm it to be the soul of Samuel himself, as 
g Antiquit. 6. 15  josephus the Iewe, and 
h Dialog 〈◊〉 Tryphon:  justinus Martyr, yet other more exactly looking into it, tell us otherwise, as S. Austen when he calleth that which appeared 
i De doctr. Christ lib. 24 23.  the image of Samuel, and especially Basile who elsewhere more advisedly pronounceth that 
k Basil in 〈◊〉 cap 8.  they were Devils, which hissing with their voice did transform themselves into the habit and person of Samuel. Yea 
l Chron l 1:  Genebrard himself maketh a great doubt whither it were Samuel or no, and citeth Tertullian and divers other of the Ancients resolving the contrary. As for the books of Maccabees there be many things in them, that no man can maintain (& therefore no part of them is so much as read in our Church) as that 
m 1. Mach. 1. 7:  Alexander parted his kingdom among his servants while he was alive, that the 
n Cap 8 7.  Romans took the great Antiochus alive, that they took from him 
o Cap. 8. 8.  India, and Media, and Lydia, and gave them to King Eumenes: that they had a Senate consisting of 
p Vers. 15.  three hundred and twenty men who consulted daily: that they yearly committed their 
q Vers. 16.  government to one man, whom all obeyed; and that there was no hatred or envy amongst them. Also it will never be made hang together that judas should be alive in the 
r 2: Math 1. 10.  hundred fo●…escore & eight year, and yet he should be slain in the 
s 1 Mac 9 3.  hundred fifty and two year. Neither that Antiochus should 
s 1 Mac. 6. 8:  die in his bed for grief and sorrow, and in another place should be slain in the temple of 
t 2. Mach: 1: 13. 16.  Nanea, and there have his head and the heads of his company cut of, and in a third 
u Cap. 9: 28:  passage should die a miserable death in a strange country among the mountains, & that should be only by the 
u Dan 8. 25.  hand of God, & without any help of man. Nor that 
x 2. Mach 1. 18.  Nehemias' should build the Temple & the altar at jerusalem, when indeed they were 
y Ezr. 313. & cap 6: 15:  built before his coming up; nor that it is to be found in the works of 
z 2. Mac: 2: 1:  jeremy the Prophet, that he commanded the people who were led away captive, to take fire with them. Moreover it were worth the knowing, how by good Divinity the fact of Razias 
a Cap. 14: 42:  murdering himself may any wise be commended. And whether such as were the penmen of the holy Ghost, do use to crave pardon of their infirmity & insufficienty, in delivering that which is to be named Canonical Scripture, which the 
b Cap: 15: 39  author of the later book of the Maccabees doth. Many more such blemishes are to be found in these tracts, which evidently show that no doctrine of infallible verity can be grounded upon them: but where they have aught agreeing with the Canonical Scriptures they may be accepted, because they consent with the other; where they have aught disagreeing, that same cannot be warranted because it is in these Apocryphal to be found, but it is to be repudiated as the error of a man, since a greater, (God himself who speaketh in his own word,) doth impugn it.  
4 Now for the points of doctrine which you would urge out of these books, thus we say. That Angels are deputed to safeguard Gods elect we doubt not; for the 
c Psal: 34: 7:  Angel of the Lord pitchethround about them that fear him, & delivereth them, & those whom the 
d 2: Reg: 6. 17:  servant of Elizeus saw, do testify so far, neither do we so much as call it into question, but that they are 
e Hebr. 1. 14,  ministering spirits, sent & employed in messages, as the 
f Luc, 1, 26,  Angel Gabriel was to the Virgin Mary, & when and where otherwise it pleaseth God. But what can our Papists collect hence? That they are to be prayed unto, or that they are to be worshipped? We find no warrant any where for the former: & they themselves refuse the latter. I 
g Apoc. 19: 10,  am one of thy fellow servaunts saith the Angel to john, Worship God. Or can they prove that an Angel doth so sensibly, & serviceably wait on men, as this mentioned in Tobias is reported to do? And if they could, what doth it cross any point in our religion, since all must be done by the Lord's appointment, & the glory must be given unto him? As for free-will in that sense which the Church of Rome doth teach it, we deny. Neither doth the text of Ecclesiasticus 
h Eccle. 15, 15,  necessarily enforce it, being as fit to be understood only of Adam in his first creation, as otherwise. And the words of this writer being soberly taken, may carry no other sense than what is to be found in undoubted books of 
i Deut: 30, 19,  Scripture; which texts notwithstanding we deny not, but by comparing place to place give them their right exposition. We acknowledge the freedom of man's heart to do evil; as also that by the Spirit of God the will of the regenerate is freed to do good; but this is not so much liberum as liberatum arbitrium not so much a will free, as freed, nothing being in the power of man himself, but all bestowed by God. But concerning this we shall speak more largely hereafter. The place of the 
k 2. Mac: 12 42●…  Maccabees is too weak, to prove prayer for faithful souls lying in Purgatory to be lawful. The text itself in the Original is so perplex, that an evident and certain sense cannot be made of the words. And who doth not see there, that they were not faithful persons, but rather gross sinners which were slain, and such as may be thought to have received a just judgement from God, both on body and foul, for meddling with the Anathema or excommunicate thing? judas therefore who was a man so experienced in the law of Moses, could not be so simple as to send an offering, or to cause prayers to be made for the souls of them who were thus slain, (especially when all offerings were prescribed in the levitical law, but there was none immediately concerning the persons of dead men, but all for the living:) this therefore was the misse-conceite of the author, writing therein his own fancy, rather than the fact of judas. For that worthy man well knew, that the atonement and reconciliation was to be made, for the rest of the people and army which lived, who might smart in and for their fellows sin, as their forefathers had done for the 
l josua. 7. 5.  transgression of Achan. The offering then and prayer at Jerusalem was to prevent this, and not for the souls of them who died in their sin, and were not godly persons as the words of the Author may seem to import. That men should pray to Saints, I find nothing in these treatises. Only somewhat there is that 
m Mac. 15: 12 14.  Onias and jeremy did pray for the whole people of the jews. And what will you infer upon these? You might understand, that we deny not, that the Saints in heaven do pray in general for the good of the Church: but that they in particular, know our wants, hear our callings, understand our wishes, that remaineth for you to prove. Besides you might perceive that this was a Vision, wherein things are represented otherwise then really they are, as it was with S. Peter, who conceived that a 
n Act: 10. 11  sheet full of all clean and unclean beasts was let down unto him, which nevertheless I trust you will not say was so indeed. So that from the words & circumstances of a Vision, you can concludingly evince no more, then from the words and circumstances of a P●…rable: and that is little: but from the end, use, and scope of both, you may to good purpose collect somewhat. And yet farther without impiety it may be doubted whither the General here did not use a trick of war, which Alexander and other Grand leaders have experimented, that is to encourage men by a dream artificially feigned and reported, the benefit whereof in worldly men's judgement is such, that 
o Ca: 20: 146  Leo Imperator in his military precepts hath this for one, Thou shalt cause in thy soldiers alacrity to the battle, if on the day of fight thou rising in the morning, shalt say that some dream was sent unto thee from God, which doth incite thee to invade thine enemies, and showeth thee some kind of help to fight. Then if you had your will touching the authority of these controversed books, you could not make one quarter of the gain by them as you suppose, but since they are not of the right stamp, we may not allow them to you. Be the matter in them for us or against us, we may not authorize those for Authentic Scripture, which God hath not so authorized. In the 2. of the Maccabees there is a place against Limbus Patrun, where one of the seven brethren saith, 
p Cap 7: 36  My brethren that have suffered a little pain, are now under the divine covenant of everlasting life, that is to say, at that very time enjoying it, and in possession of it, for if it be understood but of the way thither, the mother and brother yet remaining alive, were also under that covenant of assured hope: but we account not of this testimony, neither do we urge it, because the book whence it is taken, is Apocryphal.  T. HILL. 
FOr Heretics ever framed the Bible to their opinions, changing, wresting, paring, and sometimes flatly rejecting all which made over-plainly against such Doctrine as they devised, and so do most impudently the Protestants now. Whereas the Catholics ever squared their Doctrine by the line and the level of the Word of her Spouse, and therefore never had cause to reject the least jot of the holy Bible, and at one word the Catholics follow the Bible, but the Protestants force the Bible to follow them.  G. ABBOT. 
5 WHat heretics do to the Bible, or how they entreat it, we respect not, neither doth it make aught against us, till you have first proved us to be heretics. Nay look you well to it, whither you do not seclude us from being heretics; since we do not change, wrist, & pair the Bible. We allow all Scripture to be Scripture, we wrench nothing, we altar nothing, but avow that our collections and interpretations, are consonant to other places of God's sacred word, and in all points material are to be warranted out of some, or many of the ancient fathers of the Primitive Church, which when any of you shall jump upon, we never refuse to put in trial with you. Now that you Pseudo-Catholiks do that indeed, wherewith you wrongfully charge us, how can you deny, when you admit for 
q Conc: Triden▪ Sess: 4●  authentical no copy nor translation of the Scripture, but the vulgar Latin, which hath divers flaws and gaps in it, much being missing which is in the Original Hebrew & Greek? When almost in all your 
r Vaux Catechi. Horae beatissim. Virgins.  Catechisms & other books you leave out the second Commandment touching Images, as too plainly convincing your idolatrous carved & painted stuff in Churches. So when in the Eucharist you take the Cup from the 
s Conc: Constat. Sess 13  people, contrary to Christ's institution, & the relation of the form of that Sacrament by S. Paul, expounding 
s Mat: 26. 27  Drink you all of this, to be meant of the Clergy only, how do you wrest and pair? As when you say, that your Mass is a daily real sacrifice, whereas the 
t Heb: 7: 27: cap: 10: 18.  Author to the Hebrews so copiously disputeth, that there is no more sacrifice for fin. Briefly you do little better than take away all the Books of the Bible, when for so many years together you willingly suffered not the laity to look into them: And how do you pervert the Scripture to confirm that abuse, as when 
u In Apolog.  Staphilus directly applieth to that purpose the text, 
u Mat: 7: 6:  Give not that which is holy unto dogs, so accounting the laity to be no better than dogs and swine. Yea your great Rabbins, Peter 
x Lib: 3: Distinct: 25  Lombard the Master of the Sentences, & Thomas of 
y Aquin: 2.  Aquine can find so much in that place of job, 
z 〈◊〉: art: 6.  The Oxen were ploughing, and the Asses were feeding in their places, taking the oxen ploughing to signify the Priests reading the Scripture, & the Asses feeding 
job▪ 1. 14.  to be the people not troubling their heads with such matters; but contenting themselves to believe in gross, as the Church and Clergy do believe, Are not these sweet men, & do they not from dogs & swine, & Oxen & Asses, prove their matters handsomely? Thus you square your doctrine by the level of the Babylonish harlot, & no otherwise: following the Bible verily as many in London do follow the Law, when they go to Westminster after the judges who know much law, but their followers study & understand little of it. So you sometimes let the Bible stand in your Libraries or studies before you, but you look little in it, & take very small acquaintance of it; & when any thing cometh to be questioned, you had leifer be tried by any thing then that, and for traditions you will strive as for your soul, knowing they must do the deed in upholding your Popery, or else all will to the ground; for in the Scripture it hath no footing. But we contrariwise do teach our people to carry with them God's book, to read it and meditate on it, to try our teaching thereby, & not to force the exposition thereof to their own humour, but to the purpose of the holy Ghost. And so I leave you, and this your slander.  
6 Here to proceed a little farther in the matter of this Motive; we are charged (as the Reader doth see) to offer injury to the scriptures, in denying those to be Canonical whom the Romanists do grace with that name. But what is our fault? Is it that we do not allow all that to be of undoubted authority, which is within the common volumes of the Bible? Yea that is it, as M. Bristol & his fellows belike would say. We answer that if this be it, the Church of Rome itself is guilty of that crime. For are there not 2. books which are commonly called the 3. & 4. of Esdras, which themselves evermore comprise within their Bibles, & yet repute not Canonical? No better trial of this then by the 
a Session▪ 4●…  Council of Trent, which reckoning up the sacred. Volumes doth with those which are not controversed, yea with those which are past controversy, join Tobias, ●…dith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus and the two books of the Maccabees, but of these of Esdras not a word. Hear then by the judgement of that renowned Synod, (which curleth as many as join not with it) some tracts in the Bible are now as good as leapt out of the Bible. This fact of theirs will warrant our proceed; since by the same reason wherefore they seclude some, may more be shut out, if they do deserve it. Gentle Genebrard saw this well, and therefore he was desirous, although it were but by the head & shoulders, to have pulled in these two books again. 
b Lib. 2: Chron: An. 3638. & postea:  He therefore more than once is vehement for them, & would make us believe, that although in the first Synod which long since did canonize the books of holy writ, they were not admitted, yet in a later Synod the Canon was made larger. And reasons for this he maketh show to give. But it is too late Genebrard; you come after the fair. The Council which cannot err hath shut them out of doors: the Pope hath ratified their Decree, & therefore you lose your labour; and you are but one man against so many Fathers; therefore best pull in your horns. For as with your own side you are like to gain nothing, so otherwise you will pull an old house on your head, when by your example you teach us, that a private man may question, yea conclude against that which your Counsels have determined. Where by the way, let not the simple and unlearned Christian wonder, that in this best book the Bible, there should be any thing which is not properly a member of it; for we therein as also in reading some part of them publicly, do but imitate the custom of the most ancient & purest 
c Zanch. in Observat: in cap. 1●… Confession:  Churches, joining that with Gods most sacred word, which universally hath been joined among Christians, since almost the eldest times, and is not refused by the most reformed Churches at this day; but we distinguish these writings from the divine volumes, and note them by the name or appellation of apocrypha, as hidden in comparison of the bright light of the other, which may well endure the light and sunshine. And by a little Preface before those doubted books as also by the Articles of Religion agreed on in Convocation, An. 1562. we teach what opinion the Church hath of them; that they are not received to be publicly expounded, nor to confirm matters of doctrine, but only as they consent with the other which are Canonical; or only as the writings of some godly men, which may serve to give light to the history, or contain some not unprofitable instructions touching good manners. And these things in our Sermons & writings we do fequently notify. So that this indifferent course being held, there is no just cause of offence given either to the weak believer, or to the malicious & clamorous adversory; that being done which anciently in the best Christian Churches was done, and yet the people be taught but how and in what sense it is done. Nay, our Church hath been so careful for giving any way just occasion of scandal in this matter, that it permitteth the Minister to read in steed of any of these Apocryphal Chapters, other Canonical lessons upon the Sundays and Holidays, and therefore much more upon the working-days, as he in his wisdom & judgement shall see fit, requiring of him prudence & discretion in that behalf. Which appeareth in the Second Tome of Homilies, set out by public 
d An. 1563.  authority almost in the beginning of her late majesties reign. For there in the 
e An admonition to all Ministers Ecclesiastical.  Preface this advertisement being given, to all Ministers, For that the LORD doth require of his servant whom Bee hath set over his household, to show both faithfulness and prudence in his office etc. some things are advised unto him touching his duty, but lastly this is subnected and subjoined, And where it may so chance some one or other Chapter of the old Testament to fall in order to be read upon the Sundays or Holidays, which were better to be changed with some other of the New Testament, of more edification, it shall be well done to spend your time to consider well of such Chapters before hand, whereby your prudence and diligence in your office may appear, so that your people may have cause to glorify GOD for you, and be the readier to embrace your labours, to your better commendation, to the discharge of your consciences and their own. Which point being well considered, avoideth all blame from the Church of England, even in the eyes of them that would seem most quick-sighted, it being not only permitted to the Minister, but also commended in him, if wisely and quietly he do read Canonical Scripture where the Apocryphal upon good judgement seemeth not so fit, or any Chapter of the Canonical may be conceived not to have in it so much edification before the simple, as some other part of the same Canonical may be thought to have. For the words will very well carry both these.  
7 Well then, if there be reasons why the Church of Rome doth shut out from the Canon these books of Esdras, and yet they are printed and bound up with all their ordinary Bibles, if the same or such like exceptions may be taken, against judith, Tobias, and the rest, is there not as great reason that they also should be secluded from the Canonical, albeit they remain in the volume of the Bible? The exceptions against all these controversed writings are many, but I will reduce them briefly to these three plain heads, which I mean to touch. First the matter of the books of Esdras is slight and vain, without majesty, and unworthy the holy and sacred spirit of God. Secondly these tracts are not to be found in the Canon of the old, that is, the jewish Church. And thirdly in the computation of Christians they are also rejected. If we lay these lines and rules to the rest, we shall find them of very little different quality. For first the matter of them is not coherent with the rest of the undoubted scripture. In 
c Cap: 5. 12  Tobias, the Angel utteteth somewhat of himself, which cannot literally be avoided: when he saith to old Tobias, I am of the kinredos Azarias, and Ananias the great, and of thy brethren. So, it is a narration worthy at the least to be paused upon, that the 
d Cap: 6: 13:  seven husbands of Sara should be killed by an evil spirit, the first night of their marriage. Of the heart and liver of the fish I have spoken before? Is it not a likely matter that 
e Cap: 8. 9●…  Raguel would make a grave for him, whom the day before he so advisedly took for his son in law, now to bury him before he was dead? They are not matters to be commended by the pen of the holy Ghost, that judith should 
f Iud: 10: 3: 4  dress and trick herself more than became a matron, that so she might allure Holofernes to wantonness; that she 
g Cap. 12: 12 14: 18: c: 13: 1  should make show as not to deny to lie with him: that she should tell such evident 
h Ca 10. 12. 13  untruths to his servants at her first taking, and to 
i Ca: 11: 15: 16  himself afterward. That the jews should have peace so long in her life 
k Ca 16. 25.  time, and a great while after her death is a matter unprobable, since these wars of Holofernes, are said to be made in the time of King 
l Cap. 2. 1.  Nabuchodonosor, and while the first temple or 
m Ca: 16: 20  Sanctuary stood. Nay the consultation concerning this war, is reported to be in the 
n Cap. 2: 1●…  eighteenth year of Nabuchodonosor, & we find in the book of the 
o 〈◊〉: King: 25 〈◊〉:  Kings, that in the nineteenth year of his reign, the same king sent Nabuzaradan his steward to Jerusalem, who burned the house of the Lord, the kings house and all other of worth in the city. Add to this, that whereas the writers of the books of Kings and Chronicles, are most exact in setting down all great wars, and victories of the jews, from the time of Saul to the ruinating of the first temple, there is not one word of any person or circumstance belonging to this war in them, nor in any other undoubted book of holy writ. Yea josephus who was a jew, and with much learning and labour continueth the story of his countrymen, from Adam to his own days, hath not the least mention of this judith, or aught appertaining to her, which he being so desirous to conceal nothing, which might make for the honour of his people, would never in such deep oblivion have buried. These things may well be questioned.  
8 The book of Wisdom is by some of the Popish synagogue, not only accounted to be Canonical Scripture, but also reputed to be 
p Sixt. sent: Bibli. lib: 1. & 8:  Salomons, if not for the compiling, yet at least for the matter. And the reason thereof is yielded, because there is in it a prayer in the 
q Sap. 9 1.  name of Solomon. But 
r Vide Sixt. Senens. ubi supra Bellar de verbo Dei li. 1. 13  learned men of our part, rather hold it to be the work of Philo the jew, (which also Bellarmine citeth out of S. Hierome) and that not the elder Philo, but even the same who with some other of his countrymen, was sent in embassage to the 
s Philo de legate. ad caium:  Emperor Caligula, to entreat him that the jews might not be forced to accept of, and to erect his image or statue at Jerusalem, which they held to be contrary to the law of their Moses. He therefore compiled that work insinuating to Kings and great men moderation in their government, terror of torments after this life, and the extreme vanity of Idols, matters most fit for their present purpose to Caligula; & to give never the less credit to all his words, he was contented that salomon's name should be used in the prayer before mentioned, because the name of wise king Solomon was famous over all the world. And that for this purpose, 〈◊〉 the book of Wisdom was made, the whole drift of it may very well purport. Now if there were nothing else in this treatise to check itself, yet that bloody 
s Sap 4. 3●…  sentence and censure against all borne in bastardy, would bewray that it was written with an human spirit, and not by divine authority. For although God be pleased sometimes to lay a temporal punishment upon men so borne (as he also doth on other persons) yet he, who, (so that we serve him and fear him) hath professed of himself to be no 
t Act: 10, 34  respecter of persons; he who blessed Phares being in fornication begotten upon 
u Gen: 38, 18 29.  Th●…ar, so that our Saviour Christ's pedigree according to the flesh, is 
u Matth. 1, 3  derived from him; he who forgiveth the parents committing adultery or fornication, so that they do repent, which was 
x 2, Sam: 12 13:  David's case, adding to his adultery, murder also; he will much more pardon the child that is innocent in that behalf, and not accessary to the crime of his nocent parents, and will not lay that fearful judgement upon him, that neither he nor any who descend from him shall long prosper. The examples are manifold, how God hath powered various temporal blessings on the issue of such as have been borne in fornication, as we need look no farther then to William the Conqueror, tightly termed 
y Haillan Histo: lib: 6:  Guillaume le Bastard which notwithstanding aught to encourage none to commit that fleshly sin, but rather they are to fear and tremble at it, since God may justly destroy both the bodies and souls of such offenders. But this I have spoken to show, that the saying of that author cannot be justified in Divinity; neither may any man go about to advouch it, since albeit all hope well, yet few are assured that all things are right in their own birth. Nay Papists themselves among whom be pretty store of bastards, as well as among other men, saw this well enough, which caused their 
z Hugo cardinal. Lyra Glo. interl: & ordinar. D●…oni Car thusian:  commentators upon that place, to fly the literal sense, and to interpret it of bastards spiritually meant, that is heretics and such like. Of the books of Ecclesiasticus and the Maccabees I have spoken before, and therefore say no more of them but this, that S. Austen who thought reasonably well of the books of the Maccabees, yet could not tell how to justify the 
a 2. Mach: 14. 42:  commendation of Razias killing himself, and therefore is shrewdly 
b Aug. epist 61.  plunged how to salve all, by allowing the book and disallowing the fact. Since then the matter of these volumes hath such imperfections in it, that it cannot keep coherence with the un-questioned Oracles of the sacred Scripture, and the Spirit of the Almighty is ever uniform, & never dissenting from itself, if the other books do stand, as not a 
c Mat: 5. 18:  title of them shall perish unto the world's end, these than must needs fall from that high credit to which Papists would bring them, and we are not to blame, when we acknowledge not them for divine, who have no such stamp upon them.  
9 Secondly we refer ourselves to the judgement, of the lewish Church before Christ, whose the Scriptures than were, and to whom were commended the 
d Rom. 3: 2:  Oracles of God. Among them 
e Luk: 24: 27 44:  Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms, by a general name comprised all▪ Scripture, but otherwise for order and memory sake, they reduced all their books to the two 
f sixth▪ Sen: Bibli: lib: 1:  and twenty letters of the Hebrew Alphabet, and as in them they comprehended all & every particle, which they and we do receive, so they shut out also from thence, all which they & we now do expunge. No better witness of this, than that learned josephus who ex 
g Contr: Apion. lib. 1.  professo handleth this, & showeth the dignity & prerogative of the divine inspired writings, above all other, the credit of whom he holdeth doubtful & unsure. Now in the number of those of sacred authority, he hath neither Tobias, nor judith, nor any one of their companions. 
h Spec. Aug  S. Austen doth witness, that the jews do not accept Ecclesiasticus & Wisdom into their Canon; & else where more than 
i De●…civita: D●…il: 18. 36. cont●… epist: Gauden: l. 2  once, he confesseth that they also seclude the books of the Machabees. 
k In Synop.  Athanasius also acknewledgeth, that the books of the old Testament are but 22. answering to the 22. Hebrew letters, & so saith Epiphanius in his treatise, De mensuris & ponderibus, & Hilary in his Prologue on the Psalms hath the same. Where it is to be observed, that the jewish reckoning of these 22. books, is some what different from that ordinary enumeration which we do use, for they divers times comprehend two books under one; but yet so it is exactly, that whatsoever we contain within the compass of the Canon, they receive the same, and what we do reject they also refuse. And that there is such a secluding of some books by the jew, Thomas 
l Part: 〈◊〉 qu▪ 89, art: 8:  Aquinas may be a witness, who maketh doubt whither Ecclesiasticus Bee of authority or no, saying, The book of Ecclesiasticus, if it have authority, because among the Hebrews it is not received in the divine writing●…. So that if we follow the Church before Christ, unto whom most properly the Old Testament did belong, we must repute them as now we do Apocryphal, & hold their credit to be suspect. Neither may this be helped, by saying that there was some later Synod which made a larger Canon among the Jews, ●…s 
m Chronog. lib. 2.  Genebrard would say, if he could tell what he said, for that is a fable of his own inventing, & directly crossing the Council of Trent, as formerly I have showed.  
10 Thirdly among the Christians there is much more against these writings than there is for them. I will briefly cite what I find among some of the Ancient, which may seem to help them, 
n Lib. 3. Epist 9 add 〈◊〉.  Cyprian citeth somewhat out of Ecclesiasticus under the name of Solomon. Truth: but it is for the likeness of the sentences there, to those in the Proverbes, which also hath caused some other to take it for salomon's, not looking exactly into the impossibility of the matter. This therefore is but weak. 
o Lib. 2. de princip●…js.  Origen bringeth somewhat out of the story of the Maccabees. Well: but so he doth also in the same place ou: of the Liber Pastoris, which nevertheless no wise Papist will say to be Canonical. Yet elsewhere he 
p Lib: 10. c. 16 ad Rom.  saith of that Hermes or Pastor, that it seemed to him a very profitable book, and as he thinketh inspired from God. No man therefore will attribute much to origen's judgement in that behalf. 
q Stromat●…  Clemens Alexandrinus doth cite the story of Tobias. But even so doth he mention the Gospel secundum Aegypties; but he nameth neither the one nor the other Canonical. Yea but 
r De Tobia cap 1.  Ambrose writing upon Tobias, nameth that a Prophetical book: So he doth indeed, & that is of more force than any yet mentioned. But his judgement in this is not to be warranted, since 
s De bono mortis c. 11.  elsewhere he citeth the fourth of Esdras as true Scripture. And we are not ignorant that his skill was little or nothing in the Hebrew, whereby he might best have been acquainted with the customs of the Jews. In S. Austen I find little concerning Tobias and judith; only in the enumeration 
s De doctr. Christ. l: 2: 8  of the Canonical Scripture; he citeth them once, and there he hath the books of the M●…chabees, as also Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus, which for a likelihood to the books of salomon's, are called as salomon's. So 
t Ser●…: 131▪ de Tempore.  elsewhere according to the co●…on custom near him, he termeth Ecclesiasticus salomon's book. But deliberately he doth explicate that point, where he saith 
u De civet. Dei. la 7: 20.  Custom hath obtained, that Wisdom & Ecclesiasticus should be said to be Salomons for some no small likeness of the speech. But the more learned do not doubt, that they are not his; notwithstanding the Church especially that of the West, hath long agone received them into authority in the one of whom which is called the Wisdom of Solomon, the passion of Christ is most openly prophesied. It was written after the passion of Christ, even in the days of Caligula, if Philo were the author of it. Then it is clear by S. Austen that they were not salomon's work●…, but yet he would have them to be Canonical. And that he hath also in another place, 
u Speculum Augustini.  The Church of our Saviour doth receive them, yet the words of him immediately before are, The jews do reject from the Canon the book of Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus. Then by the confession of this renowned man, the jews did repudiat them. Yea & that he acknowledgeth elsewhere: 
x De curo pro mort. gerend. c: 15.  The book of Ecclesiast. is spoken against out of the Canon of the Hebrews, because it is not in that. And in his 
y Lib. 2: c. 20  Retractations, The jews do not receive the book of Wisdom into Canonical authority. Were it not then to be wished here, that S. Austen had remembered his own rule, which is, 
z De doctr. Chr. l. 2. 8.  that such books principally should be esteemed Canonical, which are so accepted of all churches; but of such as are in doubt, that they are most to be approved whom most Churches do allow. Then if the jewish Church refused these, and the Eastern Church wholly among the Christians, & great ones also in the Western provinces, upon whom he seemeth principally to rely, S. Austen by his own sentence is much opp●…gned and refuted. And of these in the East & West Church you shall hear anon.  
11 Touching the books of the Maccabees, as it is said before that S. Austen reckoned them among the Canonical volumes, so 
a De morib. Cath Eccl: cap. 23.  elsewhere he calleth the second of them Scripture. In his books 
b Lib. ●…8. 36.  Decivitate Dei, he expoundeth it to be so among Christians, not in the lewish Synagogue Not the jews, but the Church doth account the books of the Maccabees for Canonical, by reason of the vehement & wondered suffering of some Martyrs. And yet the same father in another place speaketh mu●…h more coldly & faintly for than, 
c Contra secū●…. Gaudent, Epist▪ lib. 2.  For the Scripture which is called the Maccabees, the jews do not accounted as the Law, the Prophets, & the Psalms, to whom the Lord doth give testimony as to his witnesses, saying, It must needs be that all things are fulfilled, which are written concerning me in the Law & in the Prophets & in the Psalms but it is received of the Church not unprofitably, if it soberly be read●…r beard. This even by his own extenuation carrieth but small comfort with it. But there is a work under the name of S. Austen entitled 
d Lib: 2: 34:  De mirabilibus sacrae Scripturae, where by the Author the book of Maccabees is secluded from the Canon. Notwithstanding we do not urge th●…t to be his, but take it for a counterfeit, & rather yield that S. Austen framing his judgement to some others opinion in the Western Church, did repute these also Canonical. Yet here that is to be remembered, which briefly before I touched concerning S. Ambrose, that this mistaking in this worthy Father grew, by his want of knowledge in that tongue, wherein the old Testa, was originally written: by which means he was not acquated with many things appertaining to the jewish church; unto whom since all Scripture before Christ's time was committed, if these had been Scripture, they also should have been commended, & then they should have been written in the tongue which they understood, that is to say in the Hebrew, & not in the Greek, which was a language of the Gentiles: & as 
e Aut l: 30. 9  josephus testifieth, the jews did not accommodate themselves to the learning of any tongue but their own, which is to be interpreted of the ordinary sort of them. But all these controversed writings are only in the Greek▪ and not in the Hebrew, which is a main argument against them, and ruinateth the very foundation of them. Now that S. Austen knew nothing of the Hebrew, he in his own 
f ●…pist. 131.  modesty most ingenuously confesseth, as also in another place he acknowledgeth that he had but little skill in the Greek, I 
g Cont. litter. Petilian▪ DO nat. lib. 〈◊〉:  truly have attained unto very little of the Greek tongue, and almost nothing. And this made the judgement of S. Austen the more defective in that behalf. Now as this great Doctor might be overtaken, partly by his ignorance of the Hebrew, and many circumstances belonging to the jews, & partly by leaning to the opinion of some other near about him in the Western Churches of Italy & Africa, so it is a matter very probable, that the 
h Conc. cart. 3. can 471  Council of Carthage induced by the same reasons, and most of all by the authority of S. Austen, might exorbitate in their Censure, when they put all these Apocryphal books among the writing●… Canonical. For there assembled none but such Prelates as were about Carthage, which standeth toward the West of Africa, in comparison of the East Churches. The same causes doubtless moved 
i Decret▪ Innoc●…n Cōc●…js.  Innocentius the Bishop of Rome, and therefore of the Western Church, to put all these books into the Canon, Tobias excepted of whom he saith nothing. An error once begun, goeth plentifully forward, & is not stayed upon the sudden. Whence it was that 
k Gelas. Epist. in Concilijs.  Gelasius coming after Innocentius, did in this case tread the steps of his Predecessor, when himself together with seventy Bishops, doth define all these writings to be sacred Scripture. Notwithstanding he who will look the Decree of Gelasius, as 
l Part 1 Dist. 15. 4:  Gratian citeth it about this matter, shall see that the judgement of Gelasius concerning the Canon is very weak, & little to be regarded. And in those decrees of his which are found among the Counsels the same will appear, when he maketh meaner things than these controversed books to be of irrefragable authority. For in the very next Decree to that which I formerly mentioned, he saith thus touching an Epistle of Leo one of his Antecessors in the Roman see, The text of the Epistle of Pope Leo, if any man shall dispute of even to one jot, & shall not revere●…ly receive it in all things, let him be accursed. This heat doth show, that Gelasius was not too too much advised in his determinations of this nature, but followed the tract of those that went before him, without farther ventilating or disquisition. And this is the most of that which by mine own reading, I find in Antiquity making for the justification of these Apocryphal books. And some such shows there be for the story of Susanna, & of Bel with the Dragon, which also are not in the Hebrew, & therefore together with the fragments of the book of Esther, & some other of equal sort, are by us held to be no Scripture. He who would behold what farther may be said for these things, let him look 
m De verb●… Dci. lib. 1.  Cardinal Bellarmine where he shall find a many weak citations, agreeing in substance with those whom before I have named. Now if we look what is against them, we shall easily discover testimony of greater ponderosity to overturn them, than is any to support & uphold them.  
12 What the jews did or do esteem of them, you have heard before. Only take this with you, that 
n 〈◊〉 l. c. 10.  Bellarmine can say out of S. 
o ●…n Prologue. gel●…at:  Hierome, that all these books together are rejected by the Hebrews. Now let us see, what witness the Eastern Church giveth of them. 
p Eccl. Hist. lib▪ 4: 2●…:  Eusebius hath an Epistle of Melito sometimes Bishop of Sardis in Asia the lesser, where Melito himself saith, that of purpose he traveled to Jerusalem & into Palestina, to know what were the Canonical Scriptures of the Church before Christ: and there he setteth down all those books which we admit, & none other. This was very soon after the age wherein the Apostles lived. It is here to be marked concerning this holy man, as also of all the rest whom I shall name, that they never had in this business reference to aught, but to the course of the jews, accepting their judgement for the books of the old Testament to be that, whereunto Christians also should cleave. Not long after that time came Clemens Alexandrinus, of whom 
q Lib. 6: 11:  Eusebius writing saith that he cited the books of Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus in his works, which books saith Eusebius, all men do not receive. And he addeth, as it may seem to prevent, lest any man upon his example should attribute much to those two, that he cited also the Epistle of Barnabas & of Clement. By the judgement then of Eusebius, Wisdom & Ecclesiasticus at the least are books controversed. Soon after came 
r Cap: 19:  Origen who lived at Alexandria in Egypt. And he reckoneth up the Canon of the jews comprised in two & twenty volunes, accepting all that which we accept, & not naming the other, saving the Maccabees, which he saith to be rejected of the jews. That work of Origen wherein that was contained is now lost, & yet in those which remain, he saith that the book of Wisdom, 
s De principij●…. lib 4. 3●…  is not accounted of authority with al. Athanatius after his time lived also at Alexandria, & he showeth what was held for Canonical, & what was refused. 
s In Synopsi.  There be Canonical of the old Testament two and twenty books, equal in number to the Hebrew letters. For among the Hebrews the elements of the letters are so many. But besides these there be yet of the same old Testament other books not Canonical, which are read only to the Catechumeus. Hear is a most manifest distinction between the Canonical and the Apocryphal, and a signification that these inferior volumes were only read, to such as were novices in the faith, but they were not accounted authentical & unquestionable. Next I join Epiphanius who lived in Cyprus, & he 
t Haetes 8:  rehearseth for Canonical Scriptures of the old Testament the jews books, & the other not admitted by them he expungeth for Apocryphal. And in a 
u Haeres: 76:  second place, reckoning up all the divine writings, he shutteth out these Apocryphal fellows, only after all the volumes of the old & new Testament rehearsed, he nameth also the Wisdoms of Solomon & of the son of Sirach. He nameth them I say, but after all the right ones; & yet lest any man should take advantage of the mentioning of those two, hear him elsewhere, 
u De mensuris & ponderibus:  Among the Hebrews there are two and twenty books. For th●…se two books written in verse, The Wisdom of Solomon which is called Panaretus, of all kind of virtue, and the Wisdom of jesus the son of Syrach, & the nephew of that jesus who wrote that Wisdom in Hebrew, so that his nephew interpreting it did write it in Greek, are profitable and comm●…dious, but are not put into the number of those which are received. How corruptly then doth 
x De verbo Dei. l. 1: 14:  Bellarmine deal, who citeth Epiphanius as an allower of these two books, and denieth that he spoke against them, otherwise then according to the opinion & judgement of the jews. But infinite such base shifts are to be found in that Cardinal. In the mean time we see, that thus Epiphanius who was very well skilled in the Hebrew, keepeth close both with the jewish Canon, and the judgement of the Eastern Church.  
13 Gregory Nazianzen hath a 
y De veris libris Scripture.  little treatise in verse, of purpose made to show what are the books of the old & new Testament inspired from God. He in the old reckoneth up two & twenty books, after the jewish fashion so oft above mentioned, & no more. There he putteth all these whom we acknowledge, & vouchsafeth not so much as to name Tobias or judith, or any one of those whom we seclude. And so doth he again 
z De recta educatione  ad Selencum. To all these so famous & learned men of the East & Greek Church, will I add for the conclusion, the Council of Laodicea, which in the last 
a Canon. 59  Canon recapitulateth all the Canonical books of the old Testament, but hath not one of those whom the Romanists would gladly thrust upon us. Now is it not a great sin think you, for us to join in judgement with so many learned and holy men, with all the good and religious Hebrews, who were before the time of Christ, withal the Eastern Church without impeachment, for aught that I can truly find? Are not we worthy to be reviled and reveled at, as renters, tearers and clippers of the sacred Bible? I do marvel why we should be Heretics for not admitting of these Apocryphals, since so many Fathers and reverend Doctors of the Primitive Church, did the same that we do, and yet heretics they are none. Yea but the Romanists do love to be tried by themselves. And great reason, The Western Churches, they will say, have ever been of another mind. Well yet here is but one against two, and then by S. Austin's rule before named, the matter should go on our side. But what if we find in the Latin Church, as much against it, as for it? Are not our popish people in a pretty case, for railing upon us as if we were manglers & de●…ūcatours of the Bible? Hilary was a Bishop of France, and 
b Prologue so per 〈◊〉.  he saith that there be two and twenty books of the old scripture. See his own opinion consonant with that of the Greekish and jewish Church, unto which number saith he some do add Tobias and judith, and so make four and twenty. Mark that they be but some who do add more: and these do add but two, so that the Maccabees and the rest are undoubtedly gone in his judgement, nay I may say in his mind these two also. But if any man be in this cause to be heard it is Hierome, whom Lodovicus Vives somewhere did truly call miraculum orbis, the miracle of the world. He lived a good while at Rome, and thought highly of that Church, and therefore would not hastily break from any thing, which generally, or with good ground was there received. He travailed into Palestina, and there spent much of his time, and by long conference with a jew, and other his extreme labour, attained to the exact knowledge of the Hebrew tongue, and thereupon as some think translated the whole Bible into Latin, as others suppose reform and castigated that version, which is called the Vulgar; and is now only currant among the Papists. Also he made those learned Commentaries on the Prophets, which labour may truly be said to be the glory and beauty of all his works, which yet otherwise are renowned sufficiently. Then if any man be to be heard in this Argument, it is this Hierome, and that deservedly. He then speaking of judith, bestoweth this jerk on it, 
c Epist 10:  UUee do read in judith, notwithstanding of it please any man to receive that book. But afterward he goeth more generally to work, and 
d Epist: ●…06.  showeth which are the Canonical books, even those whom we hold for Canonical; and which are Apocryphal, even the very same that we reckon for Apocryphal. Neither hath he yet done, but continuing in the same judgement, he showeth how and in what manner, the Church readeth and accepteth those inferior books, 
e Epist: 115.  As therefore the Church indeed doth read the books of judith, of Tobias and the Maccabees, but doth not receive them among the Canonical scriptures, so it may read also these two volumes, that is Ecclesiasticus and the book of Wisdom, to the edification of the people, not to confirm the authority of Ecclesiastical doctrines. What would he have said think you, if he had seen our Papists bring these books, as the chief pillars of prayer for the dead, and intercession of Saints, and other such like Apocryphal trumpery.  
14 And that there were more learned men of the Western Church, in the same mind with Hierome, we appeal to that treatise on the Creed of the Apostles, which some suppose to have been written by Cyprian, and for that cause it is found among his works, but more generally it is thought to be of Ruffiws his doing, who very well might speak for the evidency of truth, but is not to be imagined to say any thing in favour of Hierome, with whom he had hot & great 
f ●…nvect contra Hieron.  controversies. He there then enumerateth the volumes of Canonical Scripture, even in the same order as we do, but disclaimeth Tobias, judith, & their fellows, & then subjoineth this, 
g ●…e symb. Apostolor.  These are they whom the Fathers have concluded within the Canon, out of which they would have the assertions of our faith to appear. The rest they would have indeed to be read in the Churches, yet not to be produced to get from them the authority of faith. And then, These things have we said, that th●…se who do receive the first elements of faith, may know from what fountains of the word of God, their draughts are to be drawn. So that in these you see the sound & substantial judgement of the most learned in the West Church, even in the most ancient days of it, & this hath been continued ever since, until our time, by men of the greatest knowledge throughout all ages yea such as were lights in the Church of Rome itself. Nay 
h Greg epi: ad Leandr. & sup. job: 5  Gregory himself within 600. years after Christ, accepted of Hieromes translation or Castigation, using no other, but sticking so close thereunto, that as a learned man of 
i D Fulk: in pref●… Rhem Testam. 29. Greg in Evang. Hom. 34.  ours hath observed, it being falsely in that copy Domun evertit for domum everrit, he interpreted it after the erroneous putting. And since that time, in the Roman Churches that edition is ●…urrant, where according to 
k In prolog Galeato.  Hieromes distinction, there be no more to be found Canonical, than those whom we so read. I might add the testimonies of 
l Prologue: in lib: Ios: & Tobiae:  Hugo, & of 
m In ultim▪ ●…sth & epist ad Clem: y.  Caretane after him, both men of much learning & both Cardinals of the See of Rome; as also of the Ordinary Glosse●…, who in the beginning of those books hath thus, Here beginneth the book of Tobias, which is not of the Canon, & Here beginneth the book of judith which is not of the Canon, and so of the rest. Also of 
n De traden▪ does discipl▪ 〈◊〉:  Vives who secludeth Tobias, judith, & some other. In brief I can here allege the witness of many rare and worthy men, even of the Popish writers, and such as lived long before Luther's days, but I reserve them till some Romanist urge me farther unto them. But out of all this which hath been said, I conclude first that the Pope's vassals in the Cōvē●…cle of Trent, were more than audacious & encroaching upon God Almighty, when they durst to vindicate that authority, as to put into the Canon that which lieth open to so many just exceptions, and was repudiated by such, so ancient, and so many, as well of their own as other. And secondly that our jesuits of late, as Bellarmine & Campian, & our other more unlearned Papists, as Bristol and the scribbler of this Pamphlet, with whom I have to deal, are very hard fore-headed, when they exclaim upon us, for doing that, which they ought also to do, and call us heretics for imitating the judgement so mature and well grounded of such persons & Churches. But the pity of all pities is, that their blind and deaf disciples, our countrymen and brethren according to the flesh give credit to such lies, and accept that as the Gospel, which when it i●… sea●…ed doth fly to rags and fitters.   

THE NINTH REASON. Counsels.  T. HILL. 
THE Church of God hath ever been accustomed, when any heresy did spring up therein to gather a Council of Bishops, Prelates, and of other learned men, in which the truth was approved, & the heresy condemned. And whosoever were condemned by such Counsels, confirmed by the See Apostolic, were ever deemed, & in very deed were heretics, and for such at length were taken of all men, and in the end vanished away. So were the Arrians condemned in the Nicene Council, the Macedonians in the Council of Constantinople, the Nestorians in the Ephesine, the Eutychians in the Chalcedonian, & others in other Counsels. All which heretics although they flourished for a time, and drew many people yea Emperors, Kings, States and countries after them, yet in time they came to nothing, and the Counsels which condemned them were universally embraced.  G. ABBOT. 
THere are two things in the two first Periodes of this your Chapter, which although not simply in themselves, yet proceeding ●…om you do deserve admiration. For you who were wont to make such large propositions as no Papist durst avouch, filling your mouth & pen with nothing else but All, are grown in this Reason unreasonably modest, & down below a great many of your fellows, when first you allow other learned 〈◊〉 besides Bishops & Prelates to be of your Counsels: and secondly you appoint these general Assemblies not to be called by your Pope, but it is enough that they be confirmed by the See Apostolic. But the later of these we ascribe to your good Master bristol such like extenuation, who hath your very words confirmed by the See Apostolic, and from one of whose 
a Brist. Moti●…. 13●…  Motives abbreviated, you borrow the most of this your present Reason; and the former we impute either unto your ignorance, who know not what your fellows hold in this point, or to the ticklenes of the matter itself, wherein none of you with the safety of Popery, can define aught, but it lieth subject to some exception. Some of your men will have none to have voice in Counsels but Bishops, & so 
b In enumeration Cociliorun:  Possevinus saith A Councelis nothing else but a lawful Congregation of Bishops. And it is scant to be found in any of those whom you cite for Synods, that any are named but Bishops, as the Nicene 
c In praesation. Concili Nicen●…  Council consisted of three hundred & eighteen Bishops, the 
d In fine Concil. Tridentin:  Tridentine (if we will take their own account) of two hundred and seventy Bishops; unless perhaps the Legates and Orators of some Princes may be numbered to be in the Council, who yet have no voices to ratify doctrine, except they be Bishops. And yet this should seem secretly to go somewhat hard even in Campians mind, who useth first a general word, 
e Ration: 4.  the Senators of the world, but afterwards when he hath said the choice of Bishops he addeth the pi●…he of Divines. Yea 
f Chronil: 4.  Genebrard himself magnifying the Council of Lateran above all that ever were for number, saith that it had in it for chief Bishop Innocentius the Pope, than two patriarchs, him of Constantinople, and the other of Jerusalem, Archbishops Greeke and Latin seventy, Bishops 400. Abbot's twelve, priors of Covents eight hundred, which in all were Father's 1285. Now whether ●…ese priors had voices he doth not expressly tell, or whether they were there but to assist, dispute, search, inform or to ease the Prelates. And yet the manner of his particular enumeration doth seem to give them consent there: which notwithstanding▪ cannot be gathered concerning the 
g In fi●…e Con●…il. ●…ridentin.  Council of Tren●…, where albeit the Divines and Canonists which were there of any reckoning be remembered, yet the Bishops as having voice alone are at last numbered by themselves. In the first Nicene Council it seemeth by 
h Soz▪ l: 1. 19  Sozomen that Constantine the Emperor had a suffrage. But it may be doubted whither Athanasius had any or none, being then no Bishop, yet a right worthy man, & on whom the burden of disputing with the Arrians there, didly as much as upon any one man whatsoever. It were good therefore that it were agreed upon between you Papists, who be the proper and peculiar persons who have consent of judgement and deciding in Counsels, before that you build too much upon such Convocations. 
i In contro.  Costerus saw that there was no small scruple in this and other circumstances belonging to Counsels, & therefore he would not meddle at all with this Argument. 2. Bellarmine's opinion is that ordinarily only Bishops 
1. Bellar. de 〈◊〉: c 15  have a right of deciding & determining voices; extraordinarily & by privilege or custom, Cardinals, Abbots, & Generals of orders, albeit they be not Bishops may also have voices (but this saith he was only in the Counsels of Florence, Lateran and Trent) other Priests or Clergy men may help by disputing to find out truth, but have no suffrage, And therefore he condemneth the Council of Basill, where such were admitted to a deciding voice. Princes are called to defend the Council, and to take notice what is decreed that they afterward may castigate such as stand against it. Other lay men may be present to perform some necessary services to such Assemblies. Now you are as it seemeth, for the extraordinary.  
2 For the second point, if the supremacy of your Pope must stand upright, it will prove to be his alone to call and assemble Counsels. For give it to Princes, and then they shall be supreme governors in causes Ecclesiastical, which you will not admit, albeit it be, an evident truth: & permit it to the Cardinals, than you set the members above the head, the coach before the horses. Your Popes in these later ages have take on them to convocate all Synods, & will not endure that any man should meddle with that matter, which they desire to keep as charily as the apple of their eye. 
k Sleid. l. ●●  Against Pope julius the 2. there were 9 Cardinals who combined themselves, & going to M●…laine decreed that a Council should be held at Pisa to reform▪ julius: but the Pope protested against it, and said that it belonged to him alone to call such assemblies, and there upon as 
l Lib: 9:  Guicciardine saith, the Divines and Canonists were in judgement divided. And yet we know that all the old Counsels were congregated only by the order and commandment of the Emperors: So was the first Nicene Council gathered by Constantine the G●…eat, as 
m De vita Cōst●…l. ●…3: 61  Eulebius who lived in his age witnesseth, and after him 
n Hist: Ecc●…l 1: 9: Soc: 16.  Theodoret. The Synod at Constantinople is expressly 
o Socr. 5: 8●…  said to be called by Theodosius. And the great Council as Chalcedon was congregated by the commandment of Valentinian and Martian the ●…mperors, as appeareth in the preface to the same. Leo the Pope was one who upon an imagination that he sat in a seat Apostolical took somewhat more stomach to him then any of his predecessors, and also more than any of his successors till after the time of Gregory the Great; yet there is an 
p Episto: ad Theodos.  Epistle of his extant, which he wrote to Theodosius, wherein he maketh request that his Highness would give him leave to assemble a Synod in Italy. This is so plain in Histories, that the French Chronicler Du 
q Lib. 5:  Haillan, in the life of Ludovicus Pius useth this speech, By so many examples cited by me it doth appear, that Charles the Great, and Ludovicus Pius did gather Counsels, & that so they ●…ight do without the authority and permission of Popes, and that they were the supreme judges of Ecclesiastical matters in their kingdoms, and that they could as well dispose and order things spiritual as temporal. I would our English Papists would mark this, who make such scruple of the oath of Supremacy. Nay Chatles the 5. a late Emperor, and one who much more then mough was devoted to the Roman Bishops, had learned so far to walk in the ways of his noble progenitors and Predecessors, that without the Pope's privity or consent he gathered assemblies in matters of religion: which as 
r In Acts Lu. there's. Ann: 1544  Cochleus reporteth, Pope Paul●…s the 3. took ill, and challenged him for it that in his Rescripts, making mention of celebrating a meeting about businesses in religion, ●…e saith nothing of the Pope. The Roman Bishop would have made the world believe, that therein was some wrong done unto him; but Charles knew well enough what he himself had to do. Thus it is not yet agreed among our Romanists whose is the primary authority to command, convent and congregate Counsels, and therefore you in your very extraordinary wisdom and modesty declining this doubt, tell us only that these Counsels must be confirmed by the See Apostolic. He would have a Negative voice to repel them when they have decreed & done what they meant to do. Now these two observations being made, we trace your other steps.  
3 Your words are liable to many exceptions. For first when heresies sprung up, there were not evermore Counsels gathered as is evident by that time which was before the Nicene Council held under Constantine; and yet between the days of the Apostles and that Emperor, there were many heresies stirring as may be seen by 
s In haeres.  Epiphanius and S. 
s De heresib. ad Quodvult Deum.  Austen. But such fl●…wes as these be, with you are nothing. Secondly it would be expressed what you mean by the Church of God: for sometimes heretics did make such Convocations, and representing then the visible Church did bear much away. Such were the Counsels at 
t Theo: 217:  Sardi●…, at 
u S●…c: 1. 21●…  Tyrus, at 
u Lib: 2. 7:  Antioch, at 
x 〈◊〉: ca●… 25:  Sirmium, at 
y Lib: 4: 11.  Ariminum, I mean those meetings which were made by & for the Arrians, Thirdly in all such assemblies truth was not approved and heresy condemned; for in these which I have named, it was otherwise; and as the 
z Mat. 26: 3.  Council of Annas and Caiphas with the other Priests was not for Christ but against Christ, so the meeting of the Arrians in those places was not to uphold truth, but to destroy it. You should then have said that sometimes such Counsels were assembled, where ●…f the Spirit of God did illustrate them with truth, all matters were well, and especially those of mainest moment, but if they were directed by faction or human courses, it fell out otherwise. That Synod in the Acts, was such an holy 
Act: 15: 6:  meeting, where about some differences in religion and doctrine, the Apostles came together, and th●…●…rit of God was Precedent among them. But in the fourth place, that it should be of the essence of a lawful Council that it must be ratified by the Romish Bishop, is a jest 
i Bellar. de conc●…l 〈◊〉: 12  sometimes peradventure mentioned and arrogantly challenged by some of that See, but never by other in any antiquity assented unto. 
b Lib: 2: 5:  Socrates indeed speaketh of a Canon of the Church, that without the sentence, or advise of the Bishop of Rome, decrees for the Church should not be established. But this is spoken by him, as taking it up only from some claim of julius the stirring Pope then living, and not from any authentical record. For where was that ever concluded? The Nicene Council indeed taking order that there might be patriarchs in several places of the world, who might compose and direct Ecclesiastical matters in their Provinces, had for the respect which was then borne to Rome, as being the Imperial city, suffered the Bishop thereof to take the first 
c Socr. 5. 8.  place in all general Convocations, as it gave the second to the Patriarch of Constantinople, and afterward to the other patriarchs in their order. Further prerogative we find none given, howsoever the Bishops of Rome aspiring to an Ecclesiastical Monarchy did in process of time stand on it, that they had more. In a 
d Concil. carthaginians, 3.  Council at Carthage it was decreed that the Bishop of the first See should not be called the Prince of Priests, or the highest Priest or any such thing, but only the Bishop of the first See. And 
e Part: 1: Distinct. 99: 3:  Gratian citeth the very same words, out of a Council of Africa, which intendeth that of Carthage, but he addeth in the end of the Decree, But let not even the Bishop of Rome he called Universal. And 
f ●…lbid. 4:  farther he citeth a Decree of Pelagius the Pope Let none of the patriarchs ever use the word of universality, because if our Patriarch be called V●…iversall, the name of patriarchs to derogated from other●… but f●…r be this from faithful men, that any one should take that to himself, whence in any the smallest respect he may seem to d●…sh the honour of his brethren. And lest any man should say, that the Pope meant this of other patriarchs and not of himself, it followeth in the same 
g lbid, 5.  Gratian, that Pope Gregory was angry with Eulogius, that he had called him Universal Pope. I confess that in progress of time, the Bishops of Rome under a colour of a Canon in the Nicene Council did claim that appe●… should be made to them, but when the Fathers of Africa assem●…ed at 
h Con. carthaginian. 6  Carthage disclaimed it, and would by no means take knowledge of any such Canon, they sent to Nicaea to see the Original of the Nicene Council, and finding no such matter there, they put the Pope to much shame in as much as it was but a forged Canon, upon which he had insisted. But to return to julius in whose behalf the former challenge was made, when the Eastern Bishops had received imperious letters from him, they did no less than scorn it in him, & would not endure any such usurpation of his, as both 
i Lib: at 〈◊〉  Socrates and 
k Lib: 3: 7.  Sozomen do relate. Yea we find in Athanasius himself, who had fled to lulius, & whom it concerned that lulius should have nothing of his true authority diminished, because he stuck close to Athanasius in his toubles, that the 
l Athana. in Apolog. 2.  Eastern Bishops assembled in the Council at Sardis, do call julius their beloved fellow servant & nothing more. Which was the phrase not only of them being a company of catholics & Orthodox Bishops, but 
m Epistol, 3:  Cyprian before that did use to call Cornelius the Rom. Bishop his brother & no more.  
4 Yet if it should be granted that the patriarchs in the name & behalf of their Provinces should have a voice of necessary consent, what is that more to the Romish Bishops then to the other Patriarchical Sees? And besides this, the place of Socrates tendeth to nothing but political ordinances, ceremonies & customs for government of the church, which were not to be obtruded on all without consent of some chief in every Province, & especially that of Rome, the most eminent in the empire. And of that nature was the cause of Athanasius there, who was questioned as depriveable of his Bishoptik, because he had exercised his function & jurisdiction, being not restored again after his suspension by a Synod of some Bish. But if that a general Council should with good grounds out of the word of God condenne heresy, and the Pope would not join with them, whether this condemnation were lawful or no, is rather our question. Where although your Popes will take on them to have a Negative voice against the Council, & your Canonists & Pope-flaterers so dispute it, yet the Council of Constance is flat to the contrary: for there as 
n In joh. 24.  Platina saith, the Pope is subjecteth to the council, yea & deprived by it also. And the 
o conc●… constant. Sess. 5  Council itself saith that a general Council hath power immediately from Christ, to which every one of what state or dignity so ever he be, yea if it be Papal, is bound to obey in those things which pertain to faith, & to the rooting out of schism, & the reformation of the Church in the head & in the members. Thus the Council speaketh flatly, and the Popes speak directly to the contrary, and learned Papists themselves are shrewdly in suspense what to say or believe herein. 
p Replique a 〈◊〉 ●…e de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 verit. cap. 5.  One of them, a French man, saying more in the beginning then we accept, confesseth of late farther in this manner. Never did Christian man say or doubt whither the Pope were above other Bishops, but the question is whither he be above a Council, and the whole Catholic Church 〈◊〉 body gathered, This is 〈◊〉 undecided, and 〈◊〉 rather a matter of policy, or government then of the substaunc●… of faith. Nevertheless it were good that this knot were opened before that you talk to much of your Counsels, and your Pope's ratifying of them. It were well that your Papists knew what to believe. Now to proceed. Such as the first & ancient Councel●… condemned for Heretics, were rightly so accounted; for they were justly censured out of the Scriptures to hold untruths. But such as your later Conventicles of Lateran, Trent & such like, condemned, were the good servants of God, & were not, neither are justly to be reputed heretics, but by the Arch●…heretiks of the world, Antichrists men, whose censure being drawn from their own brain, & the Spirit of Satan, & not from the holy Ghost, is to be esteemed for nothing. The condemnation of the Arrians, Macedonians, Nestorians, & Eutychians we allow of, because they taught doctrine against Christ & the word of God, & we are glad of their ruin. And we find that after our Saviour's speech, 
q Mat 15. 13.  Every plant which ●…y heavenly father hath not planted shall be rooted up, here●…ks commonly are soon blown away, although Kings, States & Countries for the time do admit them: as the Arrian infection was widely entertained. Yet we cannot certainly conclude that all heresies do in time come to nothing, unless we will understand that time to be the end of time, even the final dissolution of all things. The schism of the 
r 〈◊〉. King: 17 34. ●…oh: 4: 20.  Samaritans dissenting from the jews lasted long. Your Papacy hath had a great continuance, being the confluence of a whole sink of heretical doctrine: You have long since condemned the Greek & Russian Church, and yet they hold out. The Iconomachi & Image breakers were condemned in the second Nicene Council, and yet the defenders of their faith in that point do still remain. Had not the Arrians sentence against them long agone, in the first Synod at Nice & yet there be said to be store of them in 
s Bellar. lib. 1. & 2 de Christo.  Transylvania. And for the Pelagians, I do not remember that any Council directly proceeded against them: yet they deserved to be so met with: notwithstanding. Papists do much join with them in the matter of free will. ●…It is possible then, that as the Devil endureth so may some of his Disciples, successively, & the 
s Mat. 13 〈◊〉  tars which the envious man hath sown, may be let alone to the harvest, that is to say, heretics to the last day. But let them stand or fall, slowly or quickly, such as obstinately maintain false doctrine, are heretik●… & Counsels which by warrant of the Scripture do condemn them, are to be accepted & well esteemed by all, so that they mingle not dross with their gold, no water with their wine.  T. HILL. 
ANd no doubt the late fa●… Council of Trent, which by the same authority and order, hath c●…ned the Protestants & other sectaries for heretics, will in time b●… every where received, & these new felwes by it ●…ized will v●…terly v●…sh away. For indeed ●…f a man consider the matter thoroughly, he shall plainly perceive that th●…se sects have no likelihood of conti●…, by reason they have no m●…s to gather a Council, and much less to 〈◊〉 matters therein if 〈◊〉 were gathered, being without an head as they 〈◊〉, and every one ●…leaving ●…ly to his own priv●… opi●…, & therefore ●…an ●…er all 〈◊〉 together, or if by any power they were compelled ther●…, they have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agree in one, for that they will not yield 〈◊〉 any judgement, but what is framed of their 〈◊〉 br●…, and therefore it ●…st needs 〈◊〉 amongst them, as we see it to be Quot homines, tot sente●…tiae, So many men, so many opinions.  G. ABBOT. 
5 THe famousness of your Conventicle at Trent i●… famously to be laughed at. It was eighteen year in acting, from 1545. to the year 1563. now a peec●… and then a patch, interrupted & to it again. Three Popes one after another, that is Paulus the 3. julius the 3. and Pius the 4. did beat all their wits and used their best employments to make somewhat of it, & yet most base and beggarly it proved. The most of the nations of Christendom had nothing to do with it, neither did they send thither. The Protestants universally refused, and some gave out the reason of it in 
t Sleid, l. 16.  printed tracts. First because it was assembled by the Pope, whose authority they should have ratified, if they had come at his call. Secondly the Legates of the Pope were Precedents there; therefore nothing was to be concluded or disputed against their master. Thirdly no man could come there but he must condescend to many things against his conscience, there being first and principally required obedience to the Papacy, & presence at many Idolatrous Acts. Fourthly there was no freedom ●…o speak truth, but that any man might have been served as 
u Cochl in Hist Hussit. l: 2:  john Hus was at the Council of Constance, who had a safe conduct from Sigismond then king of the Romans, & afterward Emperor and yet by a trick, that faith given to heretics is not to be kept, or as our M. 
u Ration. 4:  Capian said, Caesar sealed it, but the Christian world unsealed it, being greater than Caesar the good man there lost his life. Fiftly their Princes for reasons of state did not think fit to employ them thither. Nay Popish Realms did not join with that Council, as Q. Mary in all her time sent not thither, which may appear by this, that in the catalogue of Bishops there is named but only one of England, & that was Th. Goldwel Bishop of S. Asaph, who departed the Realm in Q. Elizabeth's time, & was at Trent at a snatch of that assembly, coming before the final breaking up of all: but he was then only a titulary Bish. without any Bishoprik. Of which sort there were also diverse other, to help make up a simple show. As Pope 
x gentle. in exam Concil. ●…riden Sel. 1. Sle●…dan. lib. 17:  Paulus the 3. made that Olaus which is called Magnus' Archb of Vpsala (a place said to be in Gothia) & one Robertus Venantius Archbishop of Armath in Ireland. He bestowed those titles on those two poor men while they lived at Rome, & had nothing in the world to do with the places of their pretended bishoprics, but were without Church, or Clergy, or Diocese, or any revenue at all. He might as well have created them Bishops of Antioch and Alexandria, if he had pleased. These two poor hungry souls the Pope for a while maintained barely at Rome: at last as men coming out of far parts of the world he sent them to Trent, allowing Olaus 15. crowns a month, which as the Author saith was but a simple pittance for an Archbishop, and especially for him who was called Magnus, but to Venantius that pretended Armachanus he allowed less. Was not this think you to go a begging for Bishops, to furnish up this high and famous Council, when such simple shifts were made? He who put out the Council, of likelihood was sore ashamed of it, and therefore in his commemoration of the Bishops there assembled, he mentioneth no such men, but leaveth them both out as counterfeits.  
6 I return to speak of Popish Princes. Among all of that part in Germany, much of the Country yet to this day standing Romishly affected, there came Bishops but 
y Cat. prael: in fine Conc  two, if we should afford them their own reckoning. But almost no place was nearer to Trent then France was. And yet 
z L. Antiguizart.  Francis the Great, who lived at the first meeting of that conciliable, had his Orator or Ambassador there, that was the Abbot of Bellozan, who in the name of his master protested, that neither the King nor any of his Realm could be bound by the decrees of that Council. The Author writing this addeth farther, that the king knew that the assembly was provided for the particular profit of some few, & not for the commonwealth of Christendone. The like was afterward done by Henry the 2. K. of France strengthened by the authority of all his Parliaments, who have still opposed themselves against the execution of the Trentish decrees, as being abusive & full of Nullities. Yet the same Henry obtained of the 
a Gent: 1: 3:  swizzers, Papists & all, that they should not consent to that Council. Truth it is that 
b Declar. du Roy deNavar. premier Recutil.  Charles the 9 did send to the Pope to prolong the Synod, & having obtained so much, did send his Legates & Bishops to Trent, with large Instructions for the reformation of the Clergy, wherein when they had laboured for the space of 18. months, & could get nothing yielded unto, the K. informed thereof, caused the to protest against that Council, & to come their ways: which they did immediately, notwithstanding great means made by the Pope, & the Cardinal of Lorraine who bore them grand sway in France, to return again. So they signed not the Decrees of the Council, & yet cunningly they are put in the catalogue, 26. French Prelates, as if there among others had confirmed all. Such frauds be in the papacy. And as there in presence it was rejected by the French, so it stood, afterward in so 
l Ibidem.  much that in the year 1572. when after the horrible Massacre was committed, time seemed much to favour it, it was propounded in the Parliament at Paris, all the Chambers being assembled, that this Council might be admitted in France, but it was then also repudiated. Much in like manner was done to that purpose, in the 
d Gent. l: 〈◊〉  year 1585. in the time of King Henry the third, but it took no success: & for aught that I could ever hear, it standeth upon those terms till this present time, the Papists in France rejecting it. So that well you may take on you to be a foolish Prophet, and say that hereafter it will be thus and thus received, but for aught that any man else can see, this good Council is as like to go backward as forward. To return here to the famousness of this Conventicle, Greek Prelates there in the Catalogue are said to be six, which I conceive to be such as in the name of the Venetians had Bishoprics on the farther side of the Adriatic sea, called in times passed by the general name of Greece, or else in some of the islands near the bottom of Greece, but subject to the Venerians. For of any who truly were of the Greek Church, I do not find any mention. Of other nations of Christendom (the Italians and Spaniards being excepted) there is no country which had more than three, some two, diverse but one, and yet we must allow their own account, and take Bishops for tales quails, at Goldwell was, to say nothing of Olaus: and any man who in that eighteen year peeped into Trent shall be numbered for one. For Spaniards it is said of them that they were 31. And the less to be wondered at, since many things were there brewed in behalf of their master, and if we will believe 
e De Rep. lib: 〈◊〉: 6:  Bodine, the King and people of Spain are great servants of the Pope. For when he had mentioned that the Popes in many ages had attempted to bestow at their pleasure benefices in diverse Kings Countries, but that still Princes have rejected those ambitious Rescripts of the Popes, he addeth, I do except the kings of Spain, the most obsequious servants of the Popes of Rome, who not without a great reward did obtain by a grant of Sixtus the Romans Bishop, that then benefices should not be given to strangers, It is then no marvel, if the spaniards so confederated with the Pope did bustle to Trent: but most of all their king then Charles the 5. urging them thither, who meant to make no small use of the countenance of that Council against his Protestants in Germany, and therefore was so 
f 〈◊〉 A●…. 547:  exceedingly angry when a stay was like to be of that Synod, a while after the beginning of it; some of the Fathers for fear of the plague creeping in at Trent, withdrawing themselves to Bonony in Italy, and the rest remaining at Trent, and so the congregation being divided.  
7 But that which much commendeth this Tridentine Convocation, was the excellent number of Italian Prelates got thither: who being under the Pope's nose; and fit to help at a pinch, are said there to have been to the number of 187. Where a man of common sense may very well smile, that out of Italy which for quantity of ground containeth no more than the two Realms of England and Ireland, there may come more than ninescore Bishops. Wherein we must do well to give a favourable interpretation, that peradventure some one pretty Bishopric might yield toward the reckoning two men or more, one being at Trent in the beginning of the Conventicle, another in the middle, & a third might be there in the end. But otherwise the truth is, that Italy hath many base and petty bishoprics, of little circuit of ground and of small commodity, which was long since observed, when the 
g In remedijs Grava. German.  Germans in their complaints against the Papacy, could say that diverse ordinary benefices in Germany, were of more yearly worth and commodity than many bishoprics in Italy. Of these little hungry minims, at a beck of the Popes came up so many at the end of the Council, as they alone being a mayor part of voices, were able by far to overbear all the rest of Christendom, which were there present. Before that time, what a goodly general Council was there at Trent, that Campian should use such admiration in speaking of it, 
h Ration: 4●…  Good God, what variety of nations, what choice of Bishops of the whole world, what glory of Kings and commonwealths, what pith or marrow of Divines, what holiness, what tears, what fastings, what flowers of Universities, what tongues, what subtility, how great labour, what infinite reading, what riches of virtues and studies, did fill that majestical sacred place? The true vanity and Rhetorical flourish of his speech may well be seen, by that poor confluence which was there, when some Acts & those of the greatest moment passed there, as by name that concerning the 〈◊〉 Canonical Scripture, the equalling of traditions 
Session: 4●…  to the written word of God, the allowing only of the Vulgar Latin edition for authentical. For then & after that, as appeareth by the calculation of the time, there were in the 
k Sleid. l. 17  meeting, besides the Cardinals which were the Pope's Legates there, and the Cardinal of Trent & Pachecus the Spaniard, four Archbishops whereof the poor & sterneling titulary Olaus & Venantius before named were two, Bishops 33. whereof two were French, five. Spaniards, one of Illyricum, & the rest were Italians. Doctors of Divinity which were Monks, 35. other which were not Monks, 12. and all these almost Spaniards. This was your late famous Council of Trent, so much craked of by all you Papists, who intent to make that seem a mountain which was meaner than a mole hill, that so you may feed fat your simple and credulous followers, with big words uttered in general, and spoken as in the clouds. Now if we should sift also what manner of men, & what noble Clerks many of those were who met there, the grace of this brag would be so much the more stained. Calvin lived in that time, & saw what excellent rare lads they were, which went voluntarily out of France thither: for as before you heard, the kings sent none. I will cite his words as 
l In praefat. ad Hist●…r: Hu●…it. ex praef. Cal●…. count Concil. ●…riden.  Cochleus setteth them down, Let the patrons of Counsels answer me bona fide, if a man should reckon them all in order unto them, what man of them would they not contemn? Nay when those Reverend Fathers do look one upon another, it cannot be but they are ash●…med of themselves. For they are known to themselves, & what other men's judgement is of them, they are not ignorant. Therefore if you will take away the name of a Council, the whole Papacy must confess, that all the Bishops which were there, was nothing but raff. But I think good to leave to other na●…ions their ornaments untouched. I will only entreat my countrymen of France, that they will value at a just price that portion which they conferred. Amongst the principal members of the Church, they do reckon the kingdom of France▪ Fron thence there were two Bishops present, the one of Nene●…um, the other of Clarement. Both alike unlearned and stupidious. The Archbishop Aquensis I do scant number amongst French men. And he of Agatha as curious men use to do, was there but as an idle looker ●…n. I beseech you French men, who of you can persuade himself, that these things do come from the holy Ghost, which even an innumerable multitude of such men shall babble out? For these imperfections and blemishes every way we upon sound consideration think the Trent assembly to be worthy of no better titles, than the 
m co chl in Histor. Hus sit: lib: 1:  Hussites gave the Council at Rome, which was called by john the 23. or rather 24. as we account him. For when the Pope had in that meeting condemned wickliff, the Hussites laughed at him, and his silly mean Conventicle, saying that it was done not in Generali Con●…ilio in a General Council, but in Angulari Concilio, in a Council in a corner. And for Pralati de regnis orbis, the Prelates of the kingdoms of the world, they said there were pauci monachi & Simoniaci urbis, a few monks & simoniacal persons of that city Rome. This is most true of your Trentish concurrence. Unto all these maims in it, we might add, that for matters important, nothing was so consulted there, as that is was to be concluded among the fathers there assembled, but from Rome was sent still what should be determined▪ so that not unworthily the scoff was used, that the holy Ghost which should have directed at Trent, was sent from Rome in a box. This be said touching the form & circumstances of that assembly so unmoderatly & undeservedly magnified, to the which I might join many other Nullities set down by 
n In ex●…mine council. Trident.  Gentillentus a French man; & for the matter as it concerneth Popish divinity, it hath been pretty well coursed by Calvin & Chennicius. So that being rightly balanced every way, there is little or nothing of authority to befound in it.  
8 Your hope that the Council of Trent will by some grace arise to a higher degree is borrowed from 
o Ration: 4  Campian, who ●…ide that while Chennicius, unless he did take heed should be buried with Arius, the Tridentine Synod, the elder it gr●…w, so much the more daily, and so much the more continually it should flourish. Well, the Prophet himself first came to nought, and the Conciliable now more than twenty years after, is in the same case as before or worse. And it is to be hoped that higher it shall not rise, unless it be with the children of unbelief. As for us that pro●…esse against it, we doubt not, but by the protection of almighty God, our religion shall stand unto the day of indge●…nte, maugre all the treasons and conspiracies which the Romish whore can have against it. It is her 
p Apoc. 18. 2  Babylon that for a great part is fallen already, and must fall a fair deal more. Those whom you call new fellows are able to prove every part of their profession to be more ancient than your uncatholike superstition. Your reasons why we cannot continue, do halt on every foot. We cannot call a Council, Ergo we cannot continue. A simple Antecedent, and a childish Consequent. And why I pray you may not the Princes & governors of the Reformed kingdoms and States of Europe, as well assemble a Council as the Popish Princes may? Yea and so much the better a Synod, because disputation and conference may be free, as being out of the word of God, and not restained within the limits of your Pope's pleasure. Then how can you prove that it is of the necessity of religion, that General Counsels should be called? May not Provincial assemblies serve the turn, for settling several lands and countries, as they have done before? It is de benè esse of religion, that there should be great meetings if there be cause, & they be lawfully called, and orderly proceeded in, but it is not the esse. Else if there had arose no 
q Act. 15. 6.  variance in the time of the Apostles, which was the cause of their meeting, their religion might have sunk. Your next proposition is as weak, that we can decide nothing without a head. We have a head and that is Christ: and his Spirit is his Vicegerent to supply his place, and this Spirit will not be wanting to those who rightly & earnestly pray for him. And we have also asquire to direct all by, that is the written word: we remember Christ's speech, 
r joh. 〈◊〉. 39  search the Scriptures. And for disagreement and stiffness to yield, if any be or have been of that mind, it is, vitium pers●…na non rei, that party is to be blamed, and not his religion●…. In all differences men are too much wedded to their opinions. Yet we doubt not but when Christian Princes shall be pleased to call a General Council, in such sort and to such end as it should be convocated, God who moveth the minds of the superiors like good Constantine's and Theodosians, to do their parts, will also move the hearts of inferiors to humility and conformity, laying a side private spirits, which is much to be entreated of the Almighty. Remember I pray you that there may be c●…rtaine rules set down, which may bridle refractory persons, as it was 
s In colloquio Ratispon. ●…601.  lately at Ratispone. Remember also that the Council of Constance could proceed not only without a Pope to be their head, but also against three Popes, removing them and deposing them. furthermore you much deceive yourselves in your opinion of our discord, for we do not so jar as you imagine. For certainly we all agree well enough to lay your Pope on the ground; and the Churches of England and Scotland, and France, and Switzerland, and the low Countries, & (calling none of the Lutherans) a good part of Germany with others jumping expressly in the same faith, are able enough to make a most renowned and Christian Council. Do not think therefore that we are so far from that as you speak of, for if you lean too much on that conceit, it will prove unto you but a broken reed, which will both fail you, and the splints of it also will run into your hands. God's word shall be the line after the which we all will walk.  T. HILL. 
LAstly I would have you here to mark the dealing of beretikes who play by General Counsels even as they play by the Scriptures: for 
Conc. Flor. Sess. 5. & 6. Magdebur. Cent. 8. c. 9 & Cent. 9 cap. ●…9.  they take and leave as they lust and as best serveth their turn. There have been in all General Counsels eighteen. All gathered, allowed, and confirmed by one and the self-same authority, of which the Greeks receive only seven. The Lutherans the first fix. The Eutyehians which are in Asia only the first three. The Nestorians which are yet in the East only the first two. The Trinitaries which are in Hungary and Poleland receive n●…ne at all: behold the liberty of your Gospel.  G. ABBOT. 
9 WHat heretics do in refusing of Scripture we list not now to examine: our judgement and the reasons whereupon it is grounded, you have heard in the last Chapter. Neither are we unwilling to acquaint the Christian world, what it is that we do hold concerning Counsels: to wit that such as are rightly gathered together, and take the direction of their conclusions from the Angel of the great counsel, from him who is called 
s 〈◊〉. 9 6.  Counsellor, such are to be much reverenced and esteemed, but yet still as the words of men, and not immediately of God. For it is one thing to be the word of God; and another to be guided by it. The former great Counsels did take the sacred Oracle for the load star of their direction, the later 
t Mat. 26. 3.  Annas-like assemblies, and Cayphas-like Counsels did least think of such matters. And therefore it may rightly be said that not the holy Ghost, but Satan in the likeness of such a 
u Nicol. de Clem super materia Concilior.  filthy bird as appeared at Rome in the Council called by john the four & twentieth, was Precedent there. Yet we hold it worth the while, to look a little into your doctrine concerning Counsels. You make them of mighty authority as anon I shall show, and yet the chief patriarchs among you who boast so much of your Unity and Consent, cannot agree which be the Counsels whom you plead for to be authentical. It is no marvel if your scholars cannot ye eld account of their faith, when you their Masters cannot. You for your part allow us eighteen General Counsels, but you do not make us so much beholding to you, as to tell us which they be. 
u In initio Platinae.  Ounphrius who was held for a great Clerk among you, reckoneth but sixteen, the four first of Nice, Constantinople, Ephesus and Chalcedon; then two other at Constantinople, than the second at Nice, than a fourth at Constantinople, than one at Lateran, the next at Lions, then at Vienna one, afterwards those of Constance, Basile and Florence, than another Lateran, & the last at Trent. 
x In indice Conciliorun  Possevinus keepeth your number of eighteen, but the Counsels of Constance and Basile he secludeth. But whereas by this reckoning if he joined with Ounphrius otherwise, he should now have ●…but fourteen, he maketh five in all at Lateran, and two at Lions, and so they rise to be eighteen. In this account his ' fellow jesuite 〈◊〉 Bellarmine 
〈◊〉 council lib: 1: cap. 5:  precisely joineth with him. And yet in substance they be but thirteen, for he acquainteth us that the first and second at Laterane, both those at Lions, and that of Vienna be lost, which by a consequent diminisheth five of the number. 
y In Chronograph.  Genebrarde who at length grew to be Archbishop of Aix thought himself as good a man as either of those, or any who would defend thě, and therefore he will not take it after their tale. For he reckoneth to us twenty General Counsels, whereof as the five which are missing are a part, so he solemnly taketh in those of Constance and Basile for as good as the best. Thus the greatest Rabbins cannot agree among themselves. All the stir is about those of Constance and Basile, who indeed do touch the Pope's freehold, and therefore himself, and all the Parasites who stand for him, are not hastily to admit them. The Council of Constance did doss three Popes which were up at once in a schism, & subjecteth the Bish. of Rome to a Council, which goeth hard, & especially when the Synod may be called without him, as that was: & therefore he will none of that. The Council of Basil would not be at the lure of Eugenius the 4. but set up 
z Ae●… Silvius deConcil. Bafil.  Amedeus the Duke of Savoy against him, & made him an Antipape; & this I tell you is dangerous doctrine. This doth touch the triple crown, & therefore it is good looking before these things be ratified. What shall we the think that the Pope did in this case? 
a Vbi supra  Onuphrius he goeth briefly to work, & saith that the Council of Basil was confirmed by Eugenius the 4. & that of Constance by Martin the 5. So the if he say truth, they have all their compliments, & must go for currant money. Concerning the Council of Constance 
b Vt supra.  Genebrard ●…ūpeth with him, & saiththat by Martin the 5. it was ratified. But he extenuateth that of Basil and saith that by Nicolas the 5. it was approved in those things, which belong ad cinsur as & causas boneficiales. 
c Vt. supra: Sic Bellar. de Concil: lib: 〈◊〉 cap: 7  Possevinus like a jesuit who must stick close to the Pope, saith that indeed that of Censures & of Benefices was allowed by Nicolas the 5. but the rest was all refused in the Council at Lateran by Leo the 10. And there he telleth us that such part of the Council of Constance as did set the Council above the Pope was caslated & cashiered: but that which was done against wickliff and Hus was ratified before by Pope Martin. Is not your provorb here true. So many men, so many minds? that faith given to I. Hus may be broken, as being to an heretic, shall stand for good doctrine: but the allowance of the 
d Coch●…. in Hist Hussit. l. 7.  Eucharist in both kinds, made to the Hussits by the deputies of the council of Basil, & the yielding to the other 3. articles is frustrated. And it will go hard with the Vir. Mary also, who there was quit of being 
conc: Basil. Sess: 36.  conceived in Original sin, whereupon dependeth the feast of the cōcep●… of our Lady as you call it, whereof what the Franciscane Friars will think, I lean to your consideration. By this, men may see how wise the Pope is, who will surely live without his dam, if we will let him alone, when albeit all the Prelates of Christendom come together and determine that which is good for the regiment of the Church, yet if it touch the Pope he will stand to nothing. Nay if Martin say yea, & confirm it, Leo coming after will say No, and undo it. So that let the Council pray and talk what they will of the holy Ghost being among them, if the Pope's holy spirit do not agree with theirs, their holy Ghost is nothing. Somewhat it was that Pope 
f Platin ain Faschal. 2:  Paschall did put on a girdle whence 7. keys and 7. seals did hang, that he might advertise men that according to the seven fold graces of the holy Spirit, he had power to close and seal, and open and shut the holy Churches over whom by God's appointment he was ruler. That you must think to be all the world, and by a consequent the generallest Council. Open your eyes Papists, and see whither that these doctrines be not the mockery of all religion. You were as good take a compendious course, and say plainly that the Pope may do what he list, as talk of a Council and trouble a great many men about nothing, & then the resolution must be with 
g Centu. 16 in An. 1518  Silvester Prierias, that the Pope's authority is far before the Counsels, yea that the force of the sacred Scripture doth depend upon the authority of the Pope, or with 
h Ibidem.  Caietane the Cardinal who in a Conference with Luther at Auspurge did directly prefer the power of the Pope before all Scriptures and Counsels, which Luther good man would not believe. I pray you gentle Doctor suffer yourself to be conjured so far as on your honesty to tell me, whither you or we do attribute most to a Council, when we teach that many coming together in the fear of God, and sincerely using the best means that they possibly can, and being directed by God's spirit & word, may conclude that which must stand good: and you say that be they never so many, so learned, so holy, & do they what they will, yet if the Pope like not of it, (& he will not like any thing that shall bind him to any goodness) it is not all worth a straw.  
10 I cannot here omit, that the milk which you gave in the beginning of this Chapter, is now cast down by your own heel. I commended you too soon. A black More cannot change his skin, and you will to your own biace. Here the Counsels were not only allowed and confirmed by one and the self same authority, and this you mean to be your Popes, but they are gathered also. The impudency of this Proposition, which in a word you think to steal away with, I have showed before. The Bishop of Rome durst neither for his head, nor soul have said such a word, in the time of the Primitive Church. He should have been most arrogant before God, and a rank traitor to the Emperor his best master, if he had assumed that unto him. I helped you even now with a place out of Socrates: let me now quit that with another. Thus than he saith, 
i Soc in pro aemio lib. 5.  I have everywhere in my story made mention of the Emperors, becacause since that time that they began to be Christians, the business of the Church did seem to depend upon th●…●…cke, y●… and the greatest Counsels were by their sentence or order called together, and yet are so called. Alas, there was no token of the pretty Pope's supreme authority in convocating such Occumenicall assemblies, till almost a thousand years after Christ. afterward when the Pope had got the head, he began to be a little bold: but his Dictates were only attended in such places of the West, as over which he had usurped a spiritual dominion. But the Greek and Eastern Church took no notice of those assemblies more than of factious and partial Conventicles; which is the true cause that at the Council of Florence (which was cunningly got together by Eugenius the 4. to top that of 
k Coach hist. Huss. lib. 9  Basile held at the same time, and which was assembled before by his own authority, but afterward thwatted some of his designs) the Greeks' did take no notice of any of the Synods at Lateran, Lions or Vienna, where their ancestors before had not been: but only they took knowledge of such as whither the Greeks' their predecessors had freely gone. And therefore as 
l Li. 4. Chr.  Genebrarde saith, they who came to the meeting at Floremce, count that the eighth Synod, which is to be understood, if they hold it for a Synod at all. And in the 
m Scss. 5. & 6.  Council of Florence itself, the second held before at Nice was then called by the Greeks' the last General Council, and special exception was taken to that which is commonly called the eighth General Council, albeit it was held at Constantinople, they saying first that it never was at all received, and secondly that afterward it was formerly abrogated. For in as much as it had condemned Pho●ius Patriarch of Constantinople, his successor john called another Synod and antiquated the former. Mark here that the Patriarch of the Greek Church thinketh that he hath power to assemble Counsels, directly opposite to the proceed of the Romish Bishop, and that he challengeth to himself authority, to dissolve and annullate that which he supposeth the Western Patriarch with others his consorts to have done either usurpingly or unjustly. So that very true it is, that the Greeks' do not allow the eighth Synod, not the other which followed and were held in the west, by the means of the Roman Bishop, & with out their indifferent concurrence.  
11 What you cite in the name of the Lutherans, out of the Magdeburgenses is acknowledged, and consented unto by us. In the eighth 
〈◊〉 cent: 8. 9:  Century, they among other Provincial meetings speaking of the confluence at Nice, which is commonly called the second Nicene Council, in the setting down thereof do not dissemble their opinion, that is their dislike unto it. And what Christian man is there rightly advised, which hath read the 
o Exod. 20.  second commandment concerning Images, who doth not both dislike and detest that Conventicle, for decreeing both erection and adoration of Images in Churches? In the like sort in the ninth 
p cent: 9 9:  Century, the compilers of it do show themselves not well affected to that which you call the eighth General Council, & they have no small reason for it. For besides the allegations of the Greeks' against it, which even now is specified, and besides the matter of it, which I will not stand to discuss, there was a foul attempt at the very entrance into it. The Pope of Rome had so far prevailed, that he had there his Agents who stood at the Council door with writing tables, proffering them to all who would enter there, and requiring that they first should subscribe to the jutisdiction and transcendent authority of the Roman Bishop. To which Such as yielded did enter in: and those who refused were not only repelled, but it was done with much reproach and disgrace unto them. A fit course to make a free Synod. And of this sort either directly or indirectly have all the Pope's Counsels been. You tell us that some Eutychians be in Asia, and Nestorians be in the East, whereas indeed Asia is in the East: but country in particular you name us none, nor author you cite us none. I have heard indeed of Merchants who have travailed in those parts, that at this day there is at Aleppo a Congregation of Nestorians, and likely it is that in the country thereabout, or farther of in Armenia, there may be more. Neither is it unlikely, but that some also may embrace the old heresy of Eutyches in those parts. In as much then as Nestorius was condemned in the third General 
q Socn 7. 33 Evagr. 1. 4.  Council at Ephesus, it is probable that his followers will refuse that Synod, & consequently all coming after & ratifying that, & so they must only accept the 2. foremost. And since Eutyches & Dioscorus were condemned in the 4. 
r Evagr. 2. 4  Council at Chalcedom, it is most credible that if there now be any who have continued or revived their damnable heresies, they will not approve that of Chalcedon, but only such as went before it. What such in Polonia & Hungary do, as speak against the Trinity, & therefore are rather to be called Antitrinitarij then Trinitaries, ●…it mattereth not to us. We disclaim them, we abominate them, we execrate them, as we do the Eutychians & Nestorians, & all other heretics. Neither do we join with the Greeks' in all things as you know, although some of their doctrines we prefer before those of the Church of Rome. And therefore most ridiculously & unfittingly do you close up your Chapter, Behold the liberty of your Gospel, when here are none named, the Lutherans excepted, with whom we have aught to do. And for our liberty in the Gospel, of rejecting such unwarrantable stuff, as Image-worshipping, Transubstantiation & the like, maintained by your heretical meetings, we learn it of 
s Gal: ●…8: 9:  S. Paul, who hath taught us not only that if a man, but if an Angel from heaven bring any other doctrine, than is in gods word, let him be accursed. And we being sufficiently informed by God's word, that we are not to be enthralled to the beggarly 
s Colos: 2: 20  traditions of men, do purpose by the assistance of the Lords heavenly grace to 
t Galat. 5: 1.  stand fast in that liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free. We accept therefore of this Christian freedom, but Libertine-like licentiousness we leave unto you. And so for a little while I dismiss you, with this remembrance, that what you say of the Counsels accepted or excepted against, by the Greeks, the Lutherans, the Eutychians, the Nestorians, and the Trinitarians, both for the matter and quotations you borrow from Cardinal 
a Coacil: l. 1. cap: 5.  Bellarmine.  
12 TO notify then the judgement of our Church concerning Counsels; certainly we do hold them being rightly & lawfully assembled & proceeded in, to be great blessings from God, & notable means to remove schisms & to extirpate heresies. Thus we are taught by the example of the Apostles 〈◊〉 congregating 
〈◊〉 Act. 15: 6.  themselves together, and by the fruit which some such meetings had in the Primitive Church. Yea we do like of that sentence of blessed Constantine after the Nicene Council, who 〈◊〉 said that the decree of keeping Easter by all uniformly, and not 
〈◊〉 Euseb de vita Const lib: 3: 18:  by some after the fashion of the jews, was to be embraced at the gift of God, & as if it had been a commandment sent down from heaven, For saith he whatsoever is decreed in the holy Counsels of Bishops, that all aught to be attributed to the will of God. Mark he saith not generally in the Counsels of Bishops, nor in the Counsels of holy Bishops, for even such may err: but in the holy Counsels of Bishops, that is in such as wherein men do holily conform themselves unto the Scripture of truth, & go no farther than God is their guide. Such as come without human prejudice, are zealous of truth, earnest in prayer for it, diligent in searching it out, & humble to yield & conform themselves to it. Such were the first general Counsels where men did look to the load-star of the word, & therefore they are accepted of us. Yet so, that we do not esteem them as the sacred Oracles of God, equivalent to the Scripture, or of equal authentical force; but as the definitions of Godly men out of the word; & so that they give no virtue to the old & new Test. but take all that which Counsels have, from them, & therefore as takers and not givers, are inferior to them. We do therefore hold that speech of Gregory to be hyperbolically uttered, & not literally justifiable, I 
x Greg: li: 1: Epistol: 24.  confess that I do receive & reverence, as the four books of the Gospel, so the four Counsels. And again. And 
y Li: 2: Epist 49.  we do so receive the four Synods of the holy Universal Church, as the four books of the holy Gospel. If it be flatly and directly taken, it is a hard and unfit saying, & it is well, that it is but one Doctor's opinion, since the words of men, yea of all the world put together cannot be balanced in equal weight, with the immediate word of God, which is so directly inspired by the holy Ghost. A sweet child the while was our Campian, 
z Ration: 4:  who would take on him to prove, that the rest of the Synods, & namely that of Trent was of the same authority with those four first, and so consequently all as powerful as the Gospels. By which reckoning we should not only have a fifth Gospel of Nicodemus, or some such counterfeit, but eighteen Gospels more besides the four Evangelists, & so our Bibles now will grow so big, that one volume will not hold them. What a wrong did that proud and arrogant jesuite to the Scripture, when he durst write on that fashion? we dare not so far dignify or rather magnify the best Counsels (after that in the Apostles time) for fear of blasphemy. But if we shall compare the better with the worse, the weaker with the stronger, we shall see that we are not to far to lean on such assemblies, lest by attributing over much to such confluences, we sometimes take error for verity. For have there not been meetings which have concluded against the truth, & yet have carried a goodly show too? I will not insist on Provincial Counsels, as that of 
a Inter opera Cyptian.  A frike, where Cyprian & the rest concluded for rebaptising of those which were baptized by heretics, or that of 
b Soc. 1: 21.  Tyrus which proceeded against Athanasius being innocent, or that of 
c Lib: 2: 7.  Antioch, as also of 
d cap. 25.  Sirmium both which decreed for the Arrians, against the faith of Consubstantiality in Christ with his Father. I will rather stand on those who go for general, as that of Sardis in part rejected by 
e In Indice conciliorum.  Possevinus, that of Milan where were 300. Bishop's joining for Arrianisme, that of Selentia being gathered to the same purpose. Here may you find more general Synods making for the Arrians while they were in any strength, then making against them.  
13 Lay to these the Great Council of Ariminum, where were six hundred Bishops mainetaining and decreeing for the opinion of Arius, and the authority whereof seemed to be so great, and was so far urged, that Saint Augustine himself had been everborne with it, had he not been forced to fly to the Scriptures, which were and are the touchstone to try Counsels by. The place which he hath to that purpose is famous, 
f Aug contra Maxim. Arrian Episcop. l. 3:  But now neither should I produce the Nicene Council, nor thou that of Ariminum as meaning to extol it. Neither am I held with the authority of the one, nor thou with the other. With authorities of Scriptures, which are witnesses not proper to either, but common to both, let matter contend with matter, cause with cause, reason with reason. Both of us do read, That we may be in his true son jesus Christ, He is very God & life eternal, Let both of us yield to weight of so great moment. These are the words of the same S. Austen, who elsewhere had said, 
g Epist: 118:  The authority of Plenary Counsels is most wholesome in the Church. Very whole some while they keep right with the verity of Christ, but when they fall from that, they are otherwise. But S. Austen was never of opinion to atrribute too much to Counsels: for he was not so simple but that he saw there were or might be many imperfections in them, yea in the best of them. It is a worthy testimony which he gives in this behalf, when he was pressed with the authority of Cyprian & the African Council. 
h De Bap●…ismo contr Donaust: lib. 2. 3.  The sacred Scripture saith he is not at alto be doubted or desputed of. The letters of Bishops written since the Scripture if there be any error in them may be reprehended by the wiser speech of any one who is more skilful in that matter, & by the graver authority of other Bishops, & by the wisdom of the more learned, & by Counsels. And who knoweth not that Provincial Counsels without any sticking do yield to the authority of plenary Counsels, which are gathered out of the whole Christian world, yea & that oftentimes the former Plenary Counsels are amended by the later, when by any experience of things, that is opened which was shut, & known which did lie hid, without any vanity of sacrilegious pride, without any puffed neck of arrogancy, without any contention of malicious envy, with holy humility, with Catholic peace, with Christian charity. And some part of this he confirmeth again afterward, Among after-commers, the later Counsels are preferred 
Cap. 9  before the former, & the whole evermore by very good right is esteemed before the parts. Well then by Austin's sentence, even General counsels may be amended & altered: therefore they may err, or come to short. Which will the better appear if we remember that sometimes one Council is directly contrary to another, as that of Ariminum to the former of Nice, that of Franckforde touching Images, to the later at Nice, those of Constance & Basile in the subjecting of the Pope to the Council, to those of Florence and Trent, the 2. at Ephesus approving Eutyches, to that of Chalcedom which condemned him. Yea the 
k Socrat. 2. 16.  Council of Sardis against itself, when the Eastern Bishops were for Arrianisme, the Western against it, whereupon they divided themselves in place as well as in opinion. It were then a hard matter in an unavoidable contrariety or rather contradiction, to have both sorts of Counsels allowed, the affirmer & the denier: & therefore simply, absolutely & of themselves they are not to be held for sufficient confirmers of that which we must believe. It may be added as another singular exception against Counsels, that most of them are handled with such irregularities, that it is not only probable that they may swerve, but likely that they will, since even the best men, & to the best Counsels do come so laden with passions, affections, humours & partialities, that they will not or cannot see the truth. One of the most moderate of all the Popish Counsels was that of Basile, & yet what turbulentnes doth 
l De Concil. Basilcens.  Aeneas Silvius witness there to have been? He therefore in that argument is rather to be read, than that which commonly goeth for the Council of Basile, as 
m In Indice falcic: rerum expet. & fugiend.  Orthuinus Gratius well observeth, for in Aeneas who was present at that meeting, and saw and recorded all the manner of it, a man may find the order or disorder of it so described, that he may imagine himself to behold the Fathers there assembled sitting in their Pontificalibus. If we would have an example of this in an old Synod, let it be the Council of 
n Socrat. 7. 33.  Ephesus, which is one of the four Ecumenical great ones. For there was not only a clamorous division for a good space between Cyril Bishop of Alexandria, & the other Orthodox Bishops on the one side, and Nestorius with his heretical Prelates on the other side, each maintaining their faction, & proceeding to deprive each other of their bishoprics, but john Bishop of Antioch although Catholikein opinion, groweth out with Cyril also, that he had fell to sentencing Nestorius before john's coming, whereupon Cyril joining with him juvenal the Bishop of Jerusalem, proceedeth to deprive john also of his Bishopric. But afterward john returning to Antioch, & calling to him many Bish. falleth to the deprivatio of Cyril who was now returned to Alexandria. And that these and the like tumultuous fashions were not rarely but commonly used in other Counsels, we need no better witness than Gregory 
o Epist: 55:  Nazianzen, whose words touching this matter are these, I am of this ●…nde, of I must write that which is truth, that I do fly all Counsels of Bishops, because no man yet could ever see end of Synod to any profit, and whereby things which were ill were not more exacerbated then cured. For there is in them such a desire of contention, and such an ambition of domineering (do not think me to write these things odiously and unreasonably in this manner) and they are so impossible to be overcome in disputation, that if one will deal judiciously with them, he shall sooner be held guilty of some other evil then convince and clear that which is theirs. This is the sentence of him who was very wise and learned, and in whose time divers Synods were aslembled, so that he might speak upon sound experience. Thus men are, and ever have been men, and where such faction, contention, emulation, ambition, malice, bitterness is, may it not be well presumed, that the sacred Spirit of God in respect of any immediate and extraordinary influence of truth, may as well be absent as present? What then can certainly and warrantably be grounded hereupon?  
14 If this yet do not satisfy, will you hear the reasons of one, whom by his own words you may think to be a Calvinist, and yet he was what he was, long before Luther was borne. This party whom I produce is the archdeacon Nicolaus de Clemangijs, who taketh on him to dispute whether in matters of fact a general Council may●…rre or no? For that it cannot err in matters of faith or rather that it cannot finally fail we are saith he, to believe. But let the Readeriudge, whether he do not point shrewdly at that erring also, and whether his reasons beat not as fully to that, as to the other. I must draw into a narrower room, that which he uttereth more at large, but yet so as to keep his own words, 
p Disputat. super materia Concilior general●…n.  Be all General Counsels of equal authority? If they be, why doth Gregory so honour the four first, 〈◊〉 the four Gospels? For by singling out those four, he leaveth in men's minds a doubtful suspicion of the rest If a Council cannot err, how may that rule of the Lawyers be understood, that the Militant Church oftentimes doth deceive and is deceived? And how doth the Militant Church and triumphant in this point differ, if both of them be in all points infallible●… is not the Church assembled in the Council, a passenger and a pilgrime●… if it be, than it is in the state of deserving ill or well, and may do right or otherwise. That the Church cannot fail in faith, we have a testimony from Christ, Peter I have prayed for thee that thy faith fail not, but for other things I remember no such lesson. For that out of the Gospel convinceth little, where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the middle of them. For they may be deceived among whom Christ is. john the Baptist said of him to the Pharisees, He was among you, and yet they were deceived, and he was among the jews when he was crucified and spit upon. And what mad man will say, that they could not be deceived? Again of what assistance of Christ is that to be understood, if of his assistance by the presence of his divinity, that is every where, and is nothing to this matter. If of the assistance by his grace, how will it follow that where two or three come together to confer about the peace of the Church or any other good, God's grace should presently br infused in them, when before they have perhaps committed many sins where of they have neither had compunction nor made confession. For thus some do come together, and either so presently with the coming their sins are blotted out, or else it is not necessary that they should have grace infused. But suppose they have grace, will that make them that they cannot sin, that they cannot go awry by ignorance, or by some passion blinding them? Grace moveth to do well, but doth not enforce or put in an inevitable necessity. If you understand it of assistance by direction inwardly, that is given only to holy men who are filled with the spirit. Again, Counsels many times are gathered to allay schisms between Popes, & to make peace in the Church whieh perhaps God hath so interrupted, that he may do good to the Church, to purge it from pride, covetonsues, vanity, simony. Now it cometh not from Christ, that men should desire only the external peace of the Church, for so do many carnal men at this day, that themselves living in idleness and rest, they may freely serve their own wills. And who will say that these are gathered in the name of Christ, who for this end seek the unity of the Church? Yet of these there are so many as are scant to be numbered; carnal children of the Church, who care for nothing that is spiritual, may persecute those who are after the spirit, Such as for temperal things come to the Church, hypocrites, eaters up of Christ crucified, and of these is the Church so full, that in Chapters or Colleges you can hardly find other. And of these as being the wisest fellows are those who are sent to Rome & Prince's Courts, to general Counsels, & these upon hope of greater promotion do labour that they may be sent. And are these such who will come to reform the Church, who only desire that freely themselves may do what they list. But before peace & justice can be there must be such are formation in the Church. He that seeketh outward peace before spiritual peace, doth as if he should build a house without a foundation. They who were assembled at the Council of Pisa, said they had brought peace to the Church, and gave it out to the world, when there was no such matter. Do you think then whither they were deceived or not? and so a Council may be deceivid. The holy Ghost directeth them who have fitted themselves as aledging to entertain him by good works. But how should he visit them who thwart the spirit, and seek to extinguish him in other men? which in steed of the fire of charity are inflamed with the heat of ambition? These will hear nothing which is contrary to their own lust, and taste nothing of spiritual gifts, and come with a false heart to handle God's businesses, seeking those things which are their ewne and not Gods, which if Paul could say of his time, we may much more say of the dregs of our days. With such the holy Ghost is not: and such stubborn ones would not yield to the motions thereof. Now if the Spirit be not with such, and the greatest part of Counsels consist of such, and there the Decrees are made by the maiour part of voices, may not Counsels err? I speak not this of the present Council at Basile, for there I hear mante good things are handled: but yet I hear there be many things there which shouldst not be, contentions, emulations, heart-burnings, clamours which the Spirit doth not desire. There had need be good men sent to Counsels, that God may be among them. The ancient Fathers did use with praying, fasting and weeping to beg at God's hand, that his Spirit might be present at Counsels among them, to direct them, which they needed not to have done, if they ware sure that he could not be absent. UUee read in the Scripture that for one man's sin, an army of God's friends hath been overthrown. One sick sheep infecteth a whole flock. And since on one man's sentence or voice, the whole assembly dependeth, may not he both be deceived and deceive a whole Council? To do all things well and never to erra is only the part of GOD; but the world knoweth that men are not Gods, not Angels, but such as of whom it is said. All men are liars. They are subject to passions and ignorances, which overtake men the more, when by vain pride they would put them from them. If you say that it resteth not on human infirmity, but it is of the power of the holy Ghost, that the Council cannot be deceived, who is certain that with the maiour part of the Council which must preponderate, the holy Ghost is present? If you sa●…e it is likely the spirit is in some sew, and they may work the rest to the right, what if the multitude have deserved to be deceived? So Micheas could do no good on all Ahabs Prophets. And who knoweth whither the maiour part of the Council be worthy to be deceived or no? God in jeremy did for sake the temple wherein the Iewes did trust, and he bad the Prophet that he should not pray for them, for he would not hear him. Therefore good men's prayers do not always obtain for the wicked. Yea but he hath promised to be with his Church to the end of the world. But he alone knoweth who they are that have grace in his Church. The Lord knoweth who, are his. The Church by grace may remain in one only woman, as in the time of the passion it did only in the Virgin Marie. Shall a Council now be of greater authority than all the Apostles were? And yet they all declined at Christ's death, and were afraid. Shall is be greater than all the militant Church, of which Augustine said that here it cannot be without spot or wrinkle, but in the new Jerusalem it must be. What should be the reason that the four first Counsels specially be in such estimation with all, but that there were better men, then sinca have been, & they framed themselves to ask what the spirit was willing unto? These late ones are Counsels of blend, & assemble about such things as flesh & blood only would have them. Then he telleth the tale how at Rome in a Council a little before gathered by john the 24. an Owl appeared looking directly upon the Pope, to the amazement of some to the great scorn of other. Then he proceedeth, By the unworthiness of the head or the mayor part, the Council may miss of a good end other such causes there may be, as too much listening to temporal peace, or too much presumptrens of their own grace & wisdom, or negligence of looking into the word of God. It is good therefore that they who meet in such assemblies be not too bold. In another 
q Tract. priore de materia Conc. Generalis.  treatise of this same argument, he had warned before, that men should not say as of likelihood some did, We are a General Council, let us go to it boldly, w●… cannot err. What Papist will not think that this man in the matter of Counsels is more a Calvinist than Calvin himself. Let these reasons be well weighed, and then judge whither too much be to be attributed to Counsels, besides those flawa & cracks which I formerly mentioned, as who are to call Counsels, who are to have voices in Counsels, whither the Pope be to be subjecteth to a Council or no, which the Pope and all his flatterers cannot endure.  
15 He who list to know more of the Pope's challenge touching his own calling and overbalancing Counsels, let him look the censure of 
r Hist. Hussit l. 9:  Cochleus upon the Synod at Basile. There he affirmeth that assembly to be but a Conciliable or Conventicle, after that Pope Eugenius had given out his summons, that he would have that meeting to be removed to Ferrara first, but afterward to Florence, else there had been at one time two general Counsels, and consequently two Churches. Also, that the fathers at Basile with their Antipape Felix, were for eight years in a schism against Eugenius, and yet they gave out that they had the holy Ghost among them. That to call a Council, by ancient right belongeth to the Bishop of Rome. That it pertaineth not to sheep to judge their shepherd. But Eugenius himself with more majesty and Pope-like state could say, 
s Ibidem.  To that robbery at Basill, all the Devils of the world do seem to have come together. To these bracks about Counsels, this one farther may be joined, that they say a Council is not good, unless the Pope confirm it. For now how shall we know whether a Synod be confirmed or no, unless there be some Bull or Decree published concerning that particular, since 
s In judice Concilio●…  Possevinus the jesuit in reckoning up the Counsels, nameth four at A●…les, one at Laodicea, five at Orleans, and diverse other, which he saith are of great authority, for although an open confirmation of them be not found, yet they are allowed of by a secret consent of the Church, and the Popes and Doctors citing them. This is a point which may breed great difficulty, whither that be enough to ratify a Synod or no. Also it were good that before we make Counsels a matter of belief, we were assured that we have none, but those which are right in the whole, and in the parts. For Acts of Counsels have been much falsified, as it is alleged in the sixth General Council holden at Constantinople, 
t Action. 14  that some had falsified the Acts of the fifth General Council holden in the same place, as was apparently deprehended. How those in Africa did complain of the Pope's forsting in somewhat to the first Nicene Synod, I have showed before; and how the Council sent to Nice itself to see the Original. But in the same manner hath the Pope complained, that other have also falsified the Acts of the same Council. For Felix Bishop of Rome himself hath made this Decree, 
u In Decretis felicis Papae. In Concilijs.  Let the persons of the accusers be without all suspicion, because by reason of the molestations offered by evil men, this was defined in the Nicene Council by all, although by the falsehood of lewd persons, these and many other things are blotted out. We than had need to take heed, that we do: not believe those things as certain, which of themselves are so uncertain. Let Papists do it if they wil Lastly before I shut up this Chapter it is not amiss to know, that it is not for the ancient Synods that the Romanists do strive, but for those which lately were held, wherein their Pope bore much sway, and their Popery was established by fragments. For out of the old Counsels both Provincial and Universal, there are many matters contrary to their definitions. As in the third Council at Carthage there is much spoken concerning the children of Priests, which showeth that Priests than were ordinarily married. And there it is that the Pope should not be called the Prince of Priests or chief Priest. In the Elibertine Council is a flat decree against Images in Churches, It 
u Canon 36  pleaseth us that pictures should not be in the Churches, lest that which is worshipped or adored, should be painted on walls. In the fifth 
x In epistol. felicis.  Council at Constantinople, by an Epistle of Pope Felix to Zeno, it is showed that the Church is built on the confession of Peter, not on his person or place. In the ninth Council of 
y Canon. 1.  Toledo, if a Metropolitan defraud the Church, complaint thereof is to be made to the king, which showeth that Princes than had to do with persons and causes Ecclesiastical. Very many more such instances may be brought, how the old Counsels knew nothing of that heart of Popery, which since hath grown up, by the connivance of some Princes, the weakness of other, and the notable cunning of Antichrist. And for times now long agone the extravagancy and transcendency of the Roman Bishops power is no where known. For in the Nicene 
z Canon. 6  Council, the Bishop of Alexandria in his Province, and the Patriarch of Antioch in his, have as much jurisdiction as the Pope hath in his. In the 
a Isidor in praefat. Concil. Ephesin.  Ephesine Synod Cyrill of Alexandria was precedent, and not the Bishop of Rome, and there it is said that 
b In epistol. ad Nestorium  Peter and john were each to other of equal dignity, because they were Apostles and holy disciples, which overthroweth the Primacy of the Roman Bishop deriving his prerogative only from Peter's pre-eminence. And in the Council of 
c Canon. 1.  Chalcedon all is confirmed which was decreed before in other Synods. Thus the Pope and Papists should gain much by sending us to look into the most ancient Counsels.   

THE TENTH REASON. Fathers.  T. HILL. 
THE Catholic Roman religion is most plainly taught by all the ancient Fathers of the first, second, third, fourth, fift and sixth hundred years after Christ, and hath been ever (without all controversy) taught of the Fathers of every age since until this day. That religion did Diony sius Areopagita, S. Paul his scholar so manifestly teach as Causaeus a French Protestant called him for his labour a doting old 
Causaeus Dial. 5. & 11. In captain: Babilonica.  man, much like as his father Luther had said before him that Areopagita his works were like to dreams and most pernicious. The same faith was taught of Saint Ignatius, Clemens, justinus, Tertullian, Cyprian, Irenaeus, and in one word all the ancient Fathers not one excepted.  G. ABBOT. 
WHen Thomas Pilcher sometimes an unworthy fellow of a College in Oxford, but afterward an unlearned Priest of the Seminary, after pardon once given him for his life, and being exiled from his Country, returned again into England to pervert the subjects of her late Majesty, he was by arrest of law to be brought to execution, where, as I have heard, being remembered by an intelligent person that he should be well advised what the right or wrong of the cause was, for which he did suffer, his reply was, that if he were in an error, than Irenaeus and justine Martyr, Tertullian and Origene, Lactantius, Hilary, chrysostom, Ambrose, Hierome, Austen, Gregory, Bearnarde, and all other the old Fathers of the Primitive Church, were mightily deceived: for what he held they taught. The silly man had much ado to learn the names of all these, but for reading any of them, or for knowing what they written, there be many yet living, who dare safely give their word, that he good man was never troubled with it. This is the very case of the greatest part of you Papists: you will speak without the book, and make good little of that which you say: but yet for lack of challenging & facing it out, you will lose nothing of antiquity. And among all your copesmates, as one that knoweth least, and therefore dareth to say most, you lay about you here for all & all again. You are now come to yourself, revested with your old spirit, and therefore we will look for a legion of universals at your hands. The uncatholike Roman Religion, it is Papistry which you mean, is not only taught, or plainly taught, but most plainly taught, not by some, but by all the ancient Fathers of the first six ages after Christ, and hath been not sometimes but ever, not doubtingly but without all controversy taught of the Fathers of each age until this day. If you had a forehead left, and knew what you did say, which I think you do not, but only take up this speech on the word of other men, you would blush a whole year together at this your own absurdity, and by that time would this rubour be so settled in your face, that it would never out. For, that I may pluck you a little back by the sleeve, doth Saint Augustine, and, Orosius, & Fulgentius, and Bernard, where they of purpose handle the argument, teach as you do teach concerning the freeness of God's grace every way, and touching free will? 
a In pref. 1. 5 Bibli. Sanct  Sixtus Senensis shall condemn you, who rejecteth Saint Augustine's doctrine in that behalf. Do Lactantius and Ephiphanius say as you say concerning Images? Do Clemens Alexandrinus, and Basile, and Gregory Nazianzen, and chrysostom join with you in prohibiting the marriage of the Clergy? Is Theodoret your in the matter of Transubstantiation, when he who in the end of his 
b Post Epiphan The. Dialog.  Dialogues writeth the Admonition to the Reader, is enforced though he be a Papist, to confess, that he hath many things against it. Are Tertullian and Saint Augustine of your mind when they expound This is my body, to mean but the sign or figure of his body? Is Saint Ambrose yours about praying to saints? Is Cyprian, yea Gregory himself of your judgement, about the supremacy of Peter and of the Pope? Amongst a hundred examples I do but touch these things, as having occasion elsewhere more largely to handle every one of these points. So little account do you make of truth, being either spurred to it by ignorance, or blinded with maliciousness, both which in you are wonderfully desirous to uphold your drooping cause.  
2 That Causaeus or Luther do brand your Dionysius Areopagita for a counterfeit, and speak of him accordingly, we do not marvel. There was one of that name indeed, an 
c Act. 17. 34.  auditor of S. Paul, but these books fastened on him, are not worthy of his person. What is there in them all which savoureth of a man taught by an Apostolical spirit? S. Paul was facile in his writing, that the multitude might understand his main drift every where: this is so obscure that nothing can be darker. S. Paul's words were for edification: this is full of vain curiosity, taking on him to describe every angle and office in heaven. saint 
d Col. 2. 18  Paul rebuked those who meddling with the worshipping of Angels, did advance themselves in those things which they never saw: this fellow speaketh of the Angels as if he had been set to take the muster and view of them single from one end of heaven to the other. But his book De divinis Nominibies doth much display him for a counterfeit. For as it may be well questioned in him, how he could cite the Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans, which was 
e Eve Eccl. hist. li. 3. 30.  written but a little before the death of Ignatius; & he was martyred in the time of Traiane●… whereas Dionysius was a man of that age, that long before Saint Paul's death under Nero he was a Senator of 
f Act 17 34:  Athens, or one of their judges in the street of Mars: so it cannot be excused that he 
g De divinis nominibus.  citeth Clement the Philosopher, which being Clemens Alexandrinus did live almost two hundred years after Christ, and therefore this Dionysius citing him was not like to be the hearer of the Apostle Paul. Now in the eight book of his Stromata, Clemens indeed doth show himself a Philosopher, yea if you will a Logician, talking of the Predicaments, and naming Relatives, which is the point for the which this forged Dionysius citeth him. Again, this book is dedicated to Timothy Bishop of Ephesus, who being so long a scholar and fellow traveller with S. Paul, needed not so mean a man, & in so barbarous a fashion to instruct him in those things which this sweet Author pretendeth. Besides this, if there had been such an Author of any worth or name, some of the ancient writers would have given him some credit, and sometimes have mentioned him. Eusebius letteth not any man scape who was aught, or left any monument to the church. Notwithstanding he hath not any word of this Dionysius. S. Hierome came after him, and wrote a 
h Catalogue. scripto. Ecclesiastico.  treatise purposely of such as before his days, left any books to posterity, where nevertheless the home of this Dionysius is not to be found. And so much doth 
i Lib. 6. Bib. Annot 229.  Sixtus Senensis himself observe, who also 
k Lib. 2.  elsewhere telleth us, that Cardinal Caietane in his Commentaries on the Acts as also on the third of Kings excepteth against this Dionysius, as unworthy of all credit. There is another treatise in the name of 
l De caelesti Hierarchia.  Dionysius which recordeth to us in particular 9 several orders of Angels. If such a tract had been known among the ancient, or had been of any reputation with them, some or other of the old Fathers speaking of Angels, upon just occasion would have named either it, or the author, or the matter of it. 
m Haeres. 64  Epiphanius saith that there are more degrees of Angels than one, but how many he nameth not. To the same purpose speaketh 
n In Ps. 118.  Hilary; but he hath no fixed number. 
o Dialog: 1.  Caesarius the brother of Gregory Nazianzen saith that there be seven orders of Angels. Saint 
p Eucharid. ad Lauren. ca 58.  Austen as wise & learned a man as he was, yet professeth that he knoweth not, what Sedes, & Dominationes, et principatus (word●… by some expounded to be several sorts of Angels) do mean. If he had seen that work of Dionysius, he might have helped his ignorance; for he describeth them to an inch, if we will believe him. In another place the same 
q Ad Orosium contr. Priscillian & origenistas  Austen writeth thus of himself; That th●…re be these Seats, or Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, Powers in the heavenly furnitures, I do most firmly believe, and with an undoubted faith I do held that they do somewhat differ between themselves. But to the end that you may think meanly of me whom you repute to be a great Doctor, what these ●…ee and how they differ among themselves I know not. But perhaps it may be objected that 
r In Questionibus.  Athanasius, yea and out of Dionysius, saith that there be nine orders of Angels. I answer, first that indeed he nameth one Dionysius, & attributeth to him the title of a Divine, but he calleth him, not Areopagita, and therefore he may mean some other later fellow. Secondly, the treatise containing this, is expunged out of the works of Athanasius, and put among those that are held to be forged; so that here but one liar doth speak for another, and then their reward is that neither of them ought to be believed. Thirdly it agreeth not with an undoubted place of 
s De communi essent. patris. filii & spi. sanct.  Athanasius, for there he rather seemeth to make five sorts of Angels, & that with offices differing from those of Dionysius, as, those that teach, those that permit things to be done, those that punish, those that gratify souls, and those who remain with men. Afterward indeed he mentioneth Thrones, & Cherubins and Seraphins. So that the first who being himself of any estimation mentioneth Denis, is Gregory the Great, who in 
s Moral: lib: 32. 18:  one place saith that there be nine orders of Angels, but not a word hath he of Dionysius. And in a 
t In 1. King 14.  second place, so much he doth and no more. But in a 
u Homil 34 in quadra●… 〈◊〉.  third he not only hath these distinctions of Angels, but he allegeth for it Dionysius also, & that by the name of Areopagita, calling him an ancient & venerable Father. But this is a single testimony, & all other of more antiquity make against him; & he may be supposed to do it doubtfully, since naming the matter thrice he speaketh of Denis but once. And moreover Gregory lived 600. years after Christ, by which time this bastard might be a hundred or two hundred year old, & with some might be esteemed authentical, which Gregory might take up from them without farther examination. He who list to see this Denis farther discovered, & quite discarded, let him look that noble 
u Lib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉:  Mo●…ney, writing touching the Mass, & if he be not impudently refractory, he shall be silemced in this point for ever. Thus you are like to make good work with your Fathers, when the first of your tale is fil●… populi, a bastard seed which cannot inherit. What you say of Ignatius, Clemens, Iust●…, Tertullian, Cypr●…, Ir●…us, & all the Fathers is a vain, Popish, & Pilcher-like brag, which is ordinary with such crackers as you are, & till you cite some particular, deserveth no answer but to be denied. If you meant truly to your Readers, you would cite them somewhat for their money.  T. HILL. 
THis is very plain in that the Cath●… are put, & compelled by the Protestants to defend, 〈◊〉 & vp●…la the ●…dit & authority of th●… said Fathers: for the Protestants rail as them, the Catholics defend them; the Protestants refuse their authority, the Catholics hold i●… for 〈◊〉 the Protestants will not be ●…yed by them: the Catholics appeal●… to their judgement; and to be b●…fe, the Protestants make no more ac●…te of them, longer than they can wrest them to serve their 〈◊〉 th●… they d●… of Bevis of Southampton, or of Adam Bell. And in 〈◊〉 the Protestants, I include all the Puri●…es; for I am not ignor●… how the s●… Protestants are driven by the said Puritan●… to defend th●… Fathers, and also are called Papists for their labour. And ●…re by i●… i●…●…fest that the Fathers are with the Catholics, and ●…her 〈◊〉 the Protests ●…r 〈◊〉. And whither all th●… 〈◊〉, being men of exce●… wits, of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, of ●…rfull l●…ing, servant in prayer, holy in conversation, greatly in God's favour, mighty in working of miracles, and adorned with many such like gifts were more like to understands the Scriptures freshly delivered unto them from the Apostles themselves (who also no doubt taught their scholors the true sense thereof, and they theirs from one age to another) or these late foolish, unstudied, unlearned, profane and arregant fellows, be judges yourselves.  G. ABBOT. 
3 TILL you came to this Period you spoke something of your own peradventure, but now you are apparently become but even a plain trunk to carry along what your M. 
x Motiv: 14:  Bristol putteth into you: fronstealing out of whose book, you cannot contain, if your hands were bound behind you. If he then lash & lie, you think you may do so also, as lying safe under his shield. But his target is no thick one, as that 
y ●…vid Me●…amorph Lib: 13:  sevenfolde buckler of A●…ax was, but made of thin brown paper, & therefore will not bear out one blow. I pray you, where are you forced to uphold the Father's credit against the Protestants railing at them? or who of the Protestants be they, that give them not the same right, which God would have to be given unto them, or which they themselves desired should be allotted unto their writings? We hold them & their labours to be great instruments of the setting forth of God's glory, & we esteem it as a good blessing from above, that the Lord hath left their labours as monuments to his church, wherein we not only know what was done & taught in the first ages of the christian world, but may be helped also many ways in the understanding of Scriptures, & beating down of diverse heresies. And our men do study them, & are as copious & frequent in them as Papists be, which if you will, you may see, in the books of Bishop jewel, D. Hunfry, D. folk, Peter Martyr, Chennicius, yea M. calvin's Institutions, to say nothing of diverse now living. Truth it is, that when our men made the true touchstone, & only absolute judge of controversies to be the Scripture, Harding & his companions in effect flying from that, would needs bear the world in hand, that if the trial might be by the Fathers, the victory was certainly theirs. Whereupon in England, (as also in other places before) they who stood for reformation, refusing them at no weapon joined with them there, and now as persons of desperate & deplorate misery you have nothing to help you, but by foisting and juggling in changelings, upstarts & counterfeits in steed of undoubted ones, & by razing and curtolling and clipping the works of those reverend men, as anon I shall show you. It is therefore a gross slander that we do rail at them, or that we do wrest them. Where there is just cause, we as men 
z Horat. l. 11 Apistol. 1:  Nullius ad●icti jurare, in verba magistri, bound to stand to the opinion of none but of the holy Ghost, we declining-wise do leave them: but where they subscribe to the authority of God, there we subscribe to them, defend them, & refuse not to be tried by them, so far as we may by any holy & learned men, of which sort we hold them, but yet still know them to be men. As for Bevis of Southampton, & Adam bell we hold to be but fictions, such as were devised in the time of Popery, and thought fit then together with other Legends to be imparted to the people, that when they should rather have looked into the word of God if they might have been suffered, they being busied with such toys, might not grow to be of such Christian understanding, as to espy the idolatries & collusions of the Clergy. When a man who speaketh untruth cometh to examination, his tongue faltereth in his mouth, & his tale crosseth itself. So doth yours, who attempting both to soup and blow at once, make no bones to speak as good as flat contradictions, 
Simul forbear & flare Era●m: in Adage  In the one sentence, the Protestant rail at them, refuse their authority, make no more account of them then of Adam Bel, in the next the Protestants are driven by the Puritans, to defend the Fathers, & they are called Papists for their labour. So they do defend them, & not defend them. They rail on them, & yet speak for them. This is one of the riddles fit for 
b Terent. in Andrias  Oedipus. And yet the Fathers are against both the Protestants & the Puritans. And why then I request you do the Protestant's so maintain them? For such dissolute daubing of paper, you are worthy to be rewarded at least with nothing. It may be said of you, & your master Bristol, 
c Virgil's. Eclog. 3:  Et vitula tu dignus & hic. It cannot be denied that some men of learning have disliked the overmuch heaping up of Sentences out of the Fathers, to no purpose or needlessly, & especially if it have been done in Latin or Greek, when Sermons are made to the ordinary people in the vulgar tongue. But the judgement of the most judicious & such as respect the edification of the heaters, will warrant this their opinion, while it disl●…keth not the use, but the abuse. But that any man of learning in our church, or of true account in our state, have simply condcnned the using of them, you cannot show. Some weaker men in a little hum●…ur have seemed to be no great favourets of them, pa●…tly because they know them not, as 
d 〈◊〉 in Ad●…gijs.  Knowledge hath none more eager enemy than 〈◊〉 person, & partly because they have not learning to understand them. Also because they will not be at cost to buy them, or if these imped●…ēts were removed, because they will not take the pains to read them. But even such do daily more & more reform their judgement, & we doubt not but God who hath put the spirit of moderation & temperante into the greatest, wisest, & most learned of such as in times past were otherwise minded, will loin us all in one against you & the common enemies of the truth, who in an italianated & outlandish faction little care what you do. And so I trust every English man desiring to keep himself in spiritual purity, & 
e Iacob●…. 27 Motiv. 14.  unspotted of the world, & Poperty, the odious names of Puritans & Precisias whereat you have so triumphed shall to the grief of your hearts be extirpated, & all who love the Gospel joining in one as Christians & brethren shall be dutiful subjects to God & our King. Your conclusion is ridiculous & worthy to be hissed at, The Protestants defend the Fathers against the Puritans, Ergo the Fathers be against both the Protestants and the Puritans. This is Logic of the Popish Seminary.  
4 The titles which you here bestow on the ancient Fathers, Bristol setteth down thus, 
f 〈◊〉 14.  excellent wits, continual study, wonderful learning, servant prayer, holy conversation, favour in God's sight, mighty working of infinite miracles, from whence & from the rest, the Reader may judge, whether you had not bristol book lying before you, when you skuffled together this Rhap●…ody. As for these praises, we neither envy them nor deny them to those great lamps of the first Church, unless it be that of working of miracles, whereof we make a doubt. And by these helps we say that they were well furnished to understand & expound many things in the Scripture, as also somewhat by their nearness to the time of the Apostles, in those places especially where truth was kept without mingling. And yet we will you here to remember that few or scant any one of the Fathers had the Scriptures freshly delivered unto him from the Apostles themselves; you are pitifully out, for divers hundreds of years came between Christ's disciples and the most of the old Doctors: And again to call to mind, that soon after the Apostles, yea as 
g Eccl. Hist. Lib 3. 26.  Eusebius saith, immediately after their death, heretakes came plentifully in, who laboured what they could to corrupt the fountains, whence all pure water was to flow. Remember also that for three hundred years by the extremity of persecution, the Pastors were few, & they had little liberty to come together to confer about things questioned, or to follow their studies so much as they would. And yet farther remember, that some of them came late from the Gentiles as Cyprian, some from heretics as Eusebius from the Arrians, & Austen the Manichees, somefrom mere secular callings as Ambrose, & of all these without God's special grace they might a little participate. Then he is blind who seethe not, that they had not all those helps, as these have, whom you call late & foolish & unstudied, & unlearned, profane & arrogant fellows. These words you use, when you Doctor Hill are not worthy to be sorted, with the meanest of a thousand among them, which speech without amplification or any diminution may be justified only in the present Church of England. For first we have the writings of all those Fathers themselves, like to which every private man of them had not, no nor all the world neither before their times. Secondly since their days there be infinite books written which give light to matters in controversy. Thirdly our age by means of printing hath better facility to come by all books than those ancient times had. Fourthly progress of days hath made many things plainer to later ages, because they have been already fulfilled, them they could be to former tims, wherein men did but guess at them. Fifthly God hath made the scriptures of such sort, as that men's wits are to be exercised in them until the day of judgement, & it belongeth to that industry which God requireth in his servants, the they should not satisfy themselves with the labours of others, & so growidle, bue they should search farther, & inventis add●…re. Sixthly the help of the tongues is more rife now, than it was among the ordinary sort of them, as may be seen by Athanasius, who was so stumbled in the 
h Prov. 8. 22  8. Chap. of the Proverbs; the 
i Athanas. in decret. Nicen. Synod.  Arrians to prove Christ a creature, urging thence by the translation of the Septuagint, that it is in the text, 
k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Septuag:  The Lord made me, or created me, the beginning of his ways, to which without difficulties, he might easily have answered, if he had looked into the 
l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  Hebrew, where it is rather as Hierome readeth it the Lord possessed me, or as Arias Montanus hath it, the Lord got or obtained me. Also Austen had no Hebrew, and both he & Gregory very little Greek, as elsewhere I have showed. Now although it be likely that nearest to the fountains, the waters run most clearly, & the farther of, that we are, they are the more likely to be polluted, yet in spiritual things that is not to be understood of place or time but of keeping close to the original of the written word, and not varying from it. And so a man furnished by God as 
m Exod. 31: 〈◊〉.  Beseleel was to the framing of the Tabernacle, may be by the means above named, and by prayer, conference & study nothing inferior to those first lights; even as S. Austen was more excellent in some of his expositions on the Scripture then Origene, and some other more ancient than himself were, Which as both for him & S. Hierome especially in his Commentaries on the Prophets you cannot deny, so it overturneth your reason that those who were nearest to the Apostles should do best, by taking it fresh from them, & so from hand to hand. For some of the later did not only equal, but far exceed those who were their forerunners, as chrysostom in the Greek Church may show. Yet understand all this, that we have no matter of moment in any point of religion, nor scant any interpretation of Scripture, but we undertake to advouch it, from some or more of the Fathers, in one place or other of their writings, where they handle those things. It is Popery which lately crept in, that hath with the Glosses thereof, declined both the sense of the holy Ghost, & of the old Fathers; while the pleasures of Popes & the quiddities of the barbarous schoolmen have perverted almost the whole face of Divinity, & brought it to curious speculations, & unprofitable questions. When you put it to trial, you shall see that we are not so destitute of the Fathers, for the proof of our religion, & the exposition of texts, nor so altogether unstudied, and illiterate as you in your weak understanding imagine us. Touching the imputation of profaneness, you shall hear of me hereafter. 
Luther, in captain. Bap. Causaeus ubi supra. Centuriat. centur: 2: c: 10. Calvin: instit cap: 13▪ num. 29. Centur: 2: cop: 5: Causaeus dialog. 8: & 11 & 6: Bez●… in Act Apost. cap: 23.   T. HILL. 
BUT indeed it is no marvel though the Protestants do contemn yea revile the Fathers, in saying they taught things most like to dreams, they were doting old men: they had foul blemishes and told trifling tales: they had weeds and dregs, blasphemies and monsters: they were childish, dull and destitute of God, and babbled they knew not what: they were bewitched of the Devil, as damned as the Devil, blasphemers, naughty, wicked.  G. ABBOT. 
5 Here you bring a pretty beade-roll of such fragments, as you have scraped together out of some of our side, who as you think have perstringed divers of the Fathers, or at least by your perverting or distorting of their words, you would have the world to think that they have shrewdly galled them. Wherein you are much to be commended, that to make the better show both in your text & margin, you bring us the same things & quotations again, out of Causaeus & Luther, which in this very Chap. & but one leaf before you delivered unto us. This is no rare matter in your writers; for your 
n In Matth. 16: 18:  Rhemists play a prettier part than that, when meaning to spare for no cost, to prove Peter to be such a rock, ason whom the Church is principal built, they thwack authority upon authority to as good purpose as they can. And therefore they have in the margin, S. Austen Serm. 26. de Sanctis, and in the text, S. Ambrose, Serm. 68 which are both but one Sermon, put in the works of both those Fathers, but in truth belonging to neither of them. Which must needs show that Papists in their greatest matters do either proceed idly, or else of purpose they do bodge with their followers, citing one for two, as if a man should say that in Pompey's time 
o Luc: lib: 3●… Plut. in Cesar.  julius broke up the treasury at Rome, and took out much money, and one Caesar about the same time broke open the same treasury, & thereupon should conclude, that therefore the Treasury was twice forcibly entered into, when lulius Caesar was all but one man. What Luther spoke, was not against a Father but a counterfeit, not against Dionysius Areopagita, but against some mean fellow shrouding himself under his name. In K. Henry the 7. time, a man might well have taunted 
p Holinshed in Henri. 7.  Perkin Warbeck, & yet not have offended against the royal blood in the children of K. Edward the 4. And the same is to be said for Causaeus, who is to be imagined not to say aught against true Dionysius, but against that doater who usurpeth that name. Now how shameful a matter is it for you to bring in these as railing against the Doctors, when by distinguishing this false one from those who be right, they do countenance the true as much as they discountenance the feigned. He who saith that false money is but brass or copper, doth not speak evil of the kings lawful & wartantable coin. Your first fault against the Magdeburgenses, is taken out of the second 
q Cap. 10.  Century, where being ex instituto, to give their censure on the writers of that age, they yield unto them all their due commendation, of zeal in God's cause, of diligence in preaching & writing, of fortitude in oppugning heresies, of enduring martyrdom. They show also to what points of religion they do speak, & taking on them to show what is amiss in diverse of them, they use these words, As that the Epistles of Ignatius have in them some things which do seem to incline to deformed blemishes. You might have marked that before that speech they have doubted of the credit & authority of some of those Epistles, whither they properly belong to Ignatius or no. So in Papias they say there was naevus, a blemish, also that Clemens Alexandrinus, & Athenagoras had their blemishes. And so of justinus Martyr. What word can be more gently spoken then to say they had their blemishes, the truth being so, & in such sort as no Papist can excuse it. For that I may say nothing of diverse things found in them, which with you can be no less than disputable; but with us are reputed no sound doctrine; neither of some other plain errors, it is apparent that diverse of them, as Papias, & justinus Martyr, did hold the Millinery heresy, & for the same are taxed by the Century writers. That which you mention of trofling tales, if you apply it to them, is worthy to be laughed at: for they have no word of any such matter in all that Chapter, unless you take it out of their narration concerning Phocas, of whom they say, that they pass oversome things reported by 
r Lib: 10:  Vincentius inspeculo, because they seem to be fables. And what doth this detract from the Fathers, among whom I trust, you put not Vincentius: & Phocas did write nothing for aught that we find. And it is not impossible that such a Legendary fellow as Vincentius is, may tell a tale of S. Hierom, S. Ambros, or S. Austen, & yet the reputation of these Doctors be among learned men never the worse. Of Ireneus the Magdeburgenses say most mildly that he hath certain inconvenient opinions as stubble, & they cite this for one, which I believe no sober Papist will hastily maintain, that Christ was baptised at thirty years of age, preached at forty, and was crucified at fifty. And that he held the error of the Chiliasts or Millenaries.  
6 The second place which you cite out of the 
s Cent: 2: 5:  Centuries deserveth a whoop for there is not one word against any Father, but to commend them, for writing against the Valentinians, gnostics, Matcionites, Montanists & such like other heretics. And to the opinions of these heretical sects they give the titles of monsters, portents, dote, & such other, as they well merited. NOW if you of your goodness will take these heretics for Fathers, the Centurioators speak indeed hardly of such Fathers, for the which, wise men will not blame them: but if you apply their censure concerning heretics to be a railing on the Fathers whom they rather extol, this is such egregious ignotance or blindness or malice, as can scant be conceived by me, & can never be excused by you. Like to this is your quoting of calvin's Institutions, where you name not the book, which intendeth that you never saw him nor read him. In his four books there is not any thirteenth Chapter, which hath Paragraphes or Numbers 29. but only the first book. And there is nothing touching this matter, this excepted, 
s Cal. Instit: Lib: 1: c. 13: number: 29:  That nothing is more unsaverye than those fond trifles, which are put out under the name of Ignatius. He yieldeth his reason for his words. And this is not to revile Ignatius, but to reject leaden and copper stuff, which would gladly be shrouded under his wing. And if this be to revile the Fathers, almost all both Protestants and Papists, who have taken any pains to revise and publish the Doctors, or to make any Annotations on their writings, do revile them, for they show that many things are crept in among their true works, which are not worthy to go under their names. As for Causaeus, I cannot yet by any search get sight of the book, but we may judge by that formerly objected against him concerning Dionysius, that if we had the book, your cavil did contain no great matter in truth. And by Calvine and the Century writers before named, we plentifully find, that you make no conscience to abuse and misreport any man's words, so that thereby you may make some show with your credulous followers. But if it were so that Causaeus a private man, and of no great reckoning for aught that I have heard, had said something which could not be justified, the single conceit of this one man is not to be held for the judgement of all the reformed Churches. That which you allege from Master 〈◊〉 Beza is a manifest depravation of yours; 
Beza in Act. cap. 23  for you make that to be directly and absolutely spoken which is uttered conditionally. If that should be true in Hierome saith he, which Erasmus upon this place hath set down, he should not only wrong Saint Paul, but should be blasphemous against Christ. He assigneth this for his reason, because he did search for some take of imperfect piety in Christ. Now who doth doubt but to labour to find a hole in our Saviour's behaviour, and to witness of him that any part of sanctity in him was unperfect, is nothing less than blasphemy: 〈◊〉 Blasphemy yet being taken 
〈◊〉 Mat. 12. 31  not for the sin against the holy Ghost, but for that kind of evil speaking or detracting which by the mercy of God may be forgiven. The matter than is, that the collection which Erasmus made upon the words of Hierome, is too hard, and not the illation which Beza, bringeth in thereupon. If Erasmus mistook Hierome or strained him too far, Beza hath nothing to say against Hierome. Thus some of your accusations are for aught that I can find merely forged and feigned, by you; some other things are aggravated and made worse than they be; some just censures upon counterfeits are urged by you as if they were invectives against their true works, some speeches against one apparently erroneous doctrine is construed of you, as if it were uttered against all that the Doctors have wrote; the taxing of one treatise or of some one sentence therein, is traduced as if it were the rejecting of all. Yet when all is done, he is a simple Reader that cannot see, that as your suggestions are partial and slanderous, so our usage to the Fathers of the Church is such, as to give them their full right. In token whereof it were easy to show in the writings of our men, many high praises and commendations given by them, to Hierom, to chrysostom, to Augustine & the rest.  T. HILL. 
FOr they who cannot endure certain set times to fast in, no marvel though they revile Saint Basile, Saint Gregory Nazianzen, S. Leo, S. chrysostom which wrote such notable Sermons of Lent, and of other fasting days than used, as they are now in the Catholic Church.  G. ABBOT. 
7 YOU have given us the rule before; that we revile the Fathers: now we shall have the reason annexed to the rule. The Fathers writ notable Sermons concerning Lent and other fasting days as they are now used; and we cannot endure such fasts, therefore we hate the Father's writing of that argument. I would you could learn to hate untruth, and then your eyes would be so opened, that you should see little of this which you writ to be true. How prove you that the Doctors speak of Lent and fasting days as you now use them? You name us first Saint Basile, in whom I find only two Sermons concerning fasting. The 
x Serm. de jeiunio.  former of them is in commendation of abstinence, how good it is for the soul, how healthful to the body. And there is not one word in it, to which we do not assent, giving due commendation thereunto. His second Sermon doth bear a title which seemeth more to make for you, 
y Deieiunio pridie diei Cinerum.  Of the fast the day before the day of Ashes, which implieth that then they kept a day of ashes, as now you keep Ashewednesday. I will not here discuss whether the solemn use of ashes was so ancient or no: the contrary whereof directly appeareth out of Polydore Virgil, 〈◊〉 saying that Gregory who came two hundred years after, first appointed Lent to begin on the 
〈◊〉 De inventorib. rerum, Lib. 6. 3.  Wednesday, and added divers solemnities unto it, as by name the taking of ashes, wherewithal this is said, Remember man that thou art ashes, and ●…to ashes thou shalt return again. Hence first the title of the Sermon may very well be supposed to be crept in by some later means. Secondly if you will allow it, than your Shrove-Tuesday must be a fasting day, which the Romanists Carnevall may not admit. Thirdly if you had looked into that Sermon itself, you might have found that more than once, Basile speaketh of a fast only for five days, & no more; which being to be kept no longer, utterly overthroweth your position, that in those times Lent and fasting days were observed as now they be. You have hard hap Doctor Hill to trip up your own heels. In Gregory Nazianzen there is so little concerning fasting, as that scant any point in Divinity is less touched by him then that. In all his works I find nothing purposely of that argument, but that ᵃ once he doth excuse himself, that for a whole Lent he had been withdrawn 
a De quadrage●…. ●…eiunij silentio.  to his private Meditations, and not preached publicly to his congregation. Out of which there is nothing to be won but this, that a Lent in one sort or other was kept in his time, which you need not trouble yourself to prove; for we do yield it. As for chrysostom, he hath three or four Sermons where he speaketh of fasting, how requisite it is, and that above all matters men in their abstinence should fast from sin, which doctrine we also publish. Only Ad 
b Serm. 72: & 73.  Populum Antiochenum he hath two Sermons which mention Lent kept among them, but particularly in what manner of abstinence, he speaketh not. And what maketh this against us, whom you wrongfully charge to endure no set times of abstaining? Leo hath many Sermons concerning fasting, whereof 
c De jeiunio d●…imi mesin,  eight are made touching a fast kept in the 10. month in winter when all fruits were quite brought in: at which time then they used to give God thanks for the same. In these I find much commendation of fasting & alms, with exhortation thereunto. Also frequent mention of fasting on the Wednesdays & Fridays, & remembering them to watch on the Saterdotes Lastly that there were 
d Serm. 〈◊〉:  4. times of abstinence in the year celebrated, Lent in the Spring, one for Summer at Whitsuntide, another for Autumn in the seventh month, a fourth for Winter in the tenth month. He hath 
e De quadragesima  12. Sermons concerning Lent, wherein he often mentioneth how that time consisted of 4●…. days, that it was a time of preparation against the feast of Easter: & that therein men ought as well to abstain from sin, as to fast from food. And 
f De jeiunio pencostes.  4. Sermons I find in him touching a fast after Whitsons, that if any error by intemperance be committed in the feast, it may be expelled by the sobriety of a fast. Last of all he hath 
g De jeiunio septim●… mensis.  9 Sermons touching a fast yearly celebrated in the seventh month, where it appeareth that their abstinence was on the Wednesdays & F●…daies, as also it was in that other after Pē●… oft; the remembrance of which 4. t●…es by him mentioned our Church doth yet keep. But in all these his Sermons, there is not somuch as one word of distinction or dierence of meats, that flwh was to be refused, & fish to be fed on; but that there should be an abstinence in general. In one place I observe that thus he saith, 
h De jeiunio Pentecost. Ser●…. 14.  Every creature of God is good, & there is nothing to be ●…fused which is received with giving of thanks. But we are not created to this and, that with foul & shameless greediness we should desire all the plenties of the world, as if that which is lawful to be taken, might not be lawful to be omitted. Hear is no difference, of any of God's creatures which are sit for food, but one as well as another may be lawfully used of him who mindeth at all to eat. So that in a word amongst all these Fathers whom you bring as crossing our courses, here is nothing which toucheth us, but rather maketh against you.  
8. But to the end that you and as many as will, may be satisfied what we do in this behalf, first we do teach that fasting and abstinence not for or with superstition, but with faith and knowledge is necessary for Christian men. 
i 2. Sam. 12. 16.  David fasting prayed for the life of the child which was borne in adultery. When the enemies invaded his Kingdom, 
k 2. Chron. 20. 3  josaphat commanded a public fast to be proclaimed. What should I speak of 
l Ezr: 8. 21.  Ezra upon occasion doing the like, and the king of 
m jon. 3. 7:  Ninive at the preaching of jonas, 
n joel. 1: 14: cap. 2. 15.  joel prescribeth this to be the means to appease the Lord in the midst of his indignation. And in the new Testament we hear of it as practised by 
o Mat. 4. 2.  Christ, and there are by 
p Cap: 6. 16.  him also rules prescribed in what sort it should be done. For frequenting of it, 
q Luk: 2: 37.  Anna the old virtuous widow is commended, and so is 
r Act. 10: 30  Cornelius. It is one of the weapons wherewith S. 
s 2. Cor: 6: 5  Paul did fight against his spiritual enemies. Briefly, in casting out of devils Christ joineth fasting with prayers, & saith that there is one kind of 
s 〈◊〉 Mat. 17: 21  spirits, which cannot be ejected without those two. We add to these Scriptures the testimonies of ancient writers, as that of 
t 〈◊〉 De ieinnio Christi.  Cyprian, By fastings the sink of vices is dried up, wentonnessa is abated, concupiscences do wax faint, pleasures go away as fugitives. And that of 〈◊〉 chrysostom, That as lighter ships do pass the Sea more swiftly, but those 
〈◊〉 Hom. 1. in Genesim.  which are over-burdened with great weight are drowned, so fasting making the mind the lighter doth cause that it the more easily doth passeth sea of this life, and looketh into heaven and these things which are in heaven. As also that of 
u 〈◊〉 In psal. 42  Austen, Wilt thou have thy prayer to fly up unto God? make it two wings, fasting & alms. Secondly we do think that such as live in these Northern parts, as Germany, England, Scotland, Denmark & other toward the Pole Arctic, cannot without overthrow of their bodies so long endure to abstain from food as those may who dwell in a warmer climate. By the Antiperistafis of the cold air about them, their inward heat is the greater, & their stomaches are the better, whereby more meat is digested, yea & more speedily concocted. Hence it is as 〈◊〉 one observeth, that those of Africa hold the Spaniards to be great eaters, the Spaniards 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉. li●… 10. 〈◊〉. Scotic.  think so of the French, the French object that fault to the English & Scots. Yet when they come to abide where we live, these in their feeding are nothing inferior to us, Italians & French men while they have a while remained in England, giving scope liberally enough unto their stomaches. Heat then by nature being in us, if we should not have competent food, it would so much the more be kindled, & so work upon the body itself to consune it & destroy it; that of seneca being verified, 
y De Ira lib: ●…9.  Want of food enforceth heat, & burteth the blood, & stayeth the course of it in the veins being ill affected. It is not therefore for men of these Northern parts to emulate or vie with other of hot countries, who in this behalf are able to endure that which is right strange to us. When S. Paul & his companions were in fear of suffering 〈◊〉 shipwreck, it is said that for 14. days 
〈◊〉 Act: 27: 35  they continued fasting, receiving nothing. Understand this nakedly as the words do lie, & then, as much must be attributed to the fear of death which amated them, so not the least part thereof is to be imputed to the Climate, they then being in the mediterran Sea, as low as the South of Sicily. Yet it may be taken also, that they did eat nothing, that is so little as if it had been nothing, no set meal or refreshing. 
a Ad Hellenium.  Greg. Nazianzen goeth beyond this, making mention of some, who for 20. whole days & nights abstained from meat, the truth whereof I leave to the Readers consideration. Other examples of extraordinary abstinence may be brought, which cannot in any sort be equalled by the Northern nations, whose necessity requireth more frequent food. And this is one reason why Christians of these parts are not urged to watch all night before great feasts, as in some places they did in the Primitive Church, which even now I mentioned out of Leo, since the greater & fuller is their feed, the more apt men are to sleep: from the which if they should be broken & stayed in the time of preparation to the solemnity, they would be the more propense to it, at the solemnest acts themselves, as of hearing the word or receiving the Sacrament, in which case 
b Act. 20: 9●…  Eurychus was at the preaching of Paul, & three 
c Mat: 26: 4●…  of the Apostles then when they should have been very vigilant, even at the time of Christ's apprehension.  
9 Thirdly since there is such a difference between Countries, as also it is manifest that there is between the complexions & constitutions of men, some being stronger, some weaker, some labouring more, other by their calling sitting within door & stirring less, some apt by fasting to fall into sickness, there is that discretion & moderation to be used in abstinence, that our bodies may be farthered in God's service, & not so quelled, as that by sickness wilfully but unadvisedly procured, we be not able to glorify God, & follow our vocation so as otherwise we should. Thomas 
d Aquin: 2: 2 qu●… 47: 〈◊〉, 1:  Aquinas giveth the reasons and ends wherefore men should fast. One he saith is to make satisfaction for sins, which is but a Popish conceit of the Angelical Doctor, in as much as the only blood of Christ hath that force with the Father. Another is to repress the concupiscence of the flesh: which indeed hath his use, for as Tertullian telleth us, 〈◊〉 temptations which are ●…ned to fullness and 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Baptis.  ●…deratenesse of the belly, are by abstinence crushed. The third is, that the mind may be lifted more freely to contemplate those things which are above. For the pulling down of the body is the h●…ysing up of the soul, as Basile 〈◊〉 saith, even as in a 
〈◊〉 In Isai 1●…  balance the lower that one scale doth go, the higher doth the other mount up. All abstinence then which is to elevate the mind and to abate concupiscence is good: but that is not allowable, which destroyeth the substance in steed of the accident, and in steed of setting up the soul, ladeth and cloggeth it with the incumbraunce of a wearyish and crazed body, which leaneth resteth and lieth 〈◊〉 heavy on the soul the inhabitante 
〈◊〉 Seneca de ●…ra lib. 3. 9  thereof, as a rotten old cottage, which is ready to fall upon the owner, if he do not support it. And how plentifully have many of the Fathers given their auditors warning of this 〈◊〉 If the enemy the Devel 
h De virgin.  saith Athanasius do suggest into thy minds great exercises of devation that thou mayest make thy body weak and unprofitable, do thou contrary wise look that thy fasting have measure in it. Hear Athanasius holdeth those motions to come from the Devil. 
i Ad probam Epistol. 3.  Fulgentius prescribeth what we should do, 〈◊〉 our fasting there is such a temper to be used, that neither fullness do set up the body, nor ●…oderate abstinence do weaken it. Saint Augustine ●…tch, that wise men in the 〈◊〉 Church do brotherly 
〈◊〉 De mori 〈◊〉 Eccles Cathol. li. 1 c. 33.  water such as foolishly shlie refuse to drink wine, that they should not by their vain superstition be sooner weak in their bodies, then holy 〈◊〉 their souls. The same reason is for all ●…ndiscreete abstinence, from any other kind of food, so that we be hurt by it. But in this matter none go farther than Saint Basile, and Saint Bernarde. The one of whom saith thus, 〈◊〉 I dot not so beat my body, that I wear 
〈◊〉 ●…fil de ve 〈◊〉 virginit.  it out with immoderate wounds, and make it 〈◊〉 v●…profitable to service, but this is the only course of chastising the body that I subject it to service and do rightly compel it to abo●… the master. But he who by 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 doth so subdue his servant, that he is not only made unprofitable to the service of his master, but that he is not able to 〈◊〉 himself, what hath he 〈◊〉 ●…lse but made himself the 〈◊〉 of his serva●…t? For it must needs be that the body being now made unable to serve, and by weakness growing sick, his master on the other side must serve him, while 〈◊〉 one amated he is ever busy about the curing of the others infirmitte. The other thus, 
m Bernard. ad fratres de monte Dei.  Watching, fasting and such like, do not hinder but help, if they be done with the order of discretion. Which if they be so done with the fault of indescretion, that either by the spirit fainting or the body growing sick spiritual things be hindered, he who is so, hath taken away from his body the effecting of a good work from his spirit affection to it, from his neighbour an example, from God honour: he is sacrilegious & guilty of all these things towards God. Not that according to the meaning of the Apostle, even this doth not seem the duty of a man, and it be not decent and just, that the head should once ache in the service of God, which formerly hath oftentimes even to aching laboured in the vanity of the world: or that the belly should be hungry even to croping, which hath often times been filled even to vomiting, but a measure in all things is to be had: the body is sometimes to be afflicted, but not to be worn out. I shut up this point with that of Hierome, 
n Epistol: 〈◊〉:  Impose upon thyself such a measure of fasting as thou art able to bear. And again, 
o Epistol. 10  Small store of meat, and a belly which is ever hungry is preferred before fasts of three days together.  
10 Fourthly to put a religious difference between meats, as that Christians some times may feed on fish and not on flesh, is Antichristian and uniustifiable superstition. Those who teach this difference are within the compass of S. Paul's prophecy calling it a doctrine of Devils, when 
p 1. Tim. 4. 3  men forbidden to marry and to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving. The 
q Ibidem.  Rhemists would shift this place by applying it to the Manichees, and some other old heretics, and by telling us that the Church of Rome holdeth all meats clean by God's creation: but these are simple evasions, for doth the example of those ancient heretics any way prejudicate, but that there may be such again now in the world, as at this time there be Arrians, & as you embrace Pelagianisme a fresh; and is it not more likely to be understood of you then of them, since they were more than twelve hundred years agone, & the prophecy is that such should come in the latter times: and in those we now do live. And whereas it is confessed that you hold them not unclean by God's creation; that maketh against you, since you by your constitutions dare to repute that polluted, which God hath sanctified & made clean. 
r Tit. 1: 15:  Unto the pure all things are pure. It is your inhibition which presumeth to make that unlawful, which the creator did not so make, and this is injurious to God's creation. And yet I must tell you that there is one of yours who writing of this argument, doth yield thereason of your prohibition of flesh and not of fish, on fasting days, to be from the creatures themselves made by the Almighty, even Durandus who teacheth it to be, because God did not at the first curse the waters, 
s Lib. 6●… cup. detalijs ie. ●…ijs.  In as much as remission of sins should be by the water of Baptism for this element is most worthy, which washeth away filthiness, and upon which the Lord's spirit was moved before the making of the world. But he cursed the earth in the works of man, and hence it is that in fasting it is not lawful to eat ante kind of flesh which liveth on the earth as four-footed beasts and birds etc. Neither can any Papist yield a better reason than this, why in their fasts fish should be eaten of, and that with greediness, as they permit leave to themselves to do. Where I appeal to the consciences'not only of all other who do know them, but even of our Romanistes themselves, whether the ordinary keeping of fishe-dayes among such of them as be of ability, be according to the true nature of a fast, to pull down the flesh, or rather to inflame it. For is it not most certain which one 
s Gentilet: in exam: Conc: T●…d cap: 5:  saith, that howsoever the prayers of Papists be lean, yet their fasts be fat. May not a man more delicately fast with one of them, then feast with another person? Is there any creature belonging to diet, wherein more luxury may be then in fish, the old 
t Athen. lib. 〈◊〉: 3: & l 8. 6:  Philoxenus, Apitius, Lucullus, & all the renowned belly-godded gluttons hasting to such refections, & fish of all other provisions being bought at inestimable prices, as were easy to show out of Pliny, Atheneus, & other both old & new writers. Fie therefore upon such odious hypocrisy, which thinketh to honour God with such a mockery, as that their abstinence may be the largest feeding, and their fasting with a belly full of the most sumptuous fish, besides wine and a thousand sorts of junkets, which superfluity and wanton curiosity do yield, to make up Romanishe mortification. What doth it profire saith Saint 〈◊〉 Hierome not to eat oil, and yet to seek out certain curious and 
〈◊〉 Epistol: 2:  hardly gotten meats, as figs, pepper, nuts, dates, fine cakes, honey, pestakes. And such abstinence as this doth Saint 
u De moribus Manich. lib. 2: 13:  Austen condemn in the Manichees, who would touch no flesh, and yet did feed on all the dainties that art or wit could afford. His judgement is that the moderate eating of a piece of bacon, or some other plain flesh, is not so luxurious as that their abstinence. Our doctrine in this behalf is, that 
x Matth: 15: 11.  it which goeth into the mouth defileth not a man, but that which cometh out of the mouth defileth a man. And 
y Rom: 14. 17:  The kingdom of GOD is not meat and drink, And 〈◊〉 it is good that the heart be established with grace, and not with meats, which have not profited them, that 
Hebr: 13 9  have been occupied therein. To these things the ancient Fathers do agree, as Tertullian, 
a De cibis ludaicis:  GOD taketh pleasure only in our faith, only in our innoceney, only in our truth, only in our virtues, which dwell not in the belly but in the mind, & which the fear of God and awe to heaven do get unto us, not earthly meat. And to this agreeth S. Austen, 
b De civet: Dei: l 16. 37:  We learn in eating that no man is to be blamed, for the kind of meat; but for the immodest greediness. Yet withal we add, that for civil order and the common wealths sake, for the sparing of the provision at Land, for spending of that which cometh from the Sea, for the encouragement of fisher●…mē, & for farther maintenance & employment of navigation, on such days as by positive laws be appointed, we make & aught to make a difference of our diet, keeping such times as fish-days, by which name they are more properly called, than to be termed fasting days: This we do for civil order & obedience, & not for that which may be termed directly an immediate act of religion; for we condemn the Romish Church for embracing that opinion. Although indeed the wiser sort of that pack do hold this to be but a small matter of religion, and rather in their own minds repute it a devise politicly to keep people in awe, or a trick if need be to get good store of money when they lift to dispense, as may be seen by that of 
c Genebrard. l. 4: chronogr:  Clement the 6 who proclaiming a Croisado against the Turks (in truth to enrich himself after the fashion of the Popes) gave every one who would pay for it, a free liberty to eat eggs and white meat, on the Fridays and every fasting day, Lent excepted. This did the Archbishops of Triers and Colein obtain for their Dioceses for ever; but the Archbishop of Mentz refusing to contribute so much money as was required, itlyeth on his Diocese to this day, that they may not eat eggs or other white meats on the fasting days, as in the other two Bishops lurisdictions it is permitted. How much happier did the coin make the one of these, than the other? But when his Holiness list, he can go farther than this, as Pope Leo the 10. did, when 
d Ioh: Fox. in Eccles: Histor:  Cromwell went to renew the Pardons of Boston. For there among many other favours one was, that it should be lawful for the brethren of the Fraternity at Boston, to eat milk, eggs, butter on forbidden days, yea in Lent itself; yea flesh also by the advice of a ghostly father and a Physician, and all this without scruple of conscience. So that if the gentle Pope list, (who will know upon what terms he parteth with his dispensation) the thing is no sin; which some of the wiser Pseudo-Catholikes have smelled out as we may imagine, when so freely in Rome itself & in Paris, some of that Balaamitical congregation make no conscience so that it be secretly done, to feed some or the greatest part of Lent on flesh, as divers of our traveilers do constantly report. And we have no small store of these in England too, which in their heart love his Holiness well, but yet will not part with their flesh on fish days for his sake. Some be wiser then some.  
11 Fifthly we do not find that any set days of fasting were appointed by Christ or his Apostles, and the Popish days differ somewhat at this time from those of the Primitive Church, so that they have neither warrant from GOD'S word, nor yet from the ancient. Divers of those whom they call their Ladies Eves, were not so much as heard of long agone. friday and Saturday are now the ordinary days of abstinence, and Wednesday is almost quite discontinewed saving in some few places, and on some few set times. Some of the old Church heard of Friday, and Wednesday●…, and that not only four times in the year as you heard before out of Leo, but otherwise also: yet of Saturday no word. We have saith 
e Homil: 10: in ●…tic.  Origene the fourth and sixth days of the weeeke, wherein we do solemnly fast, This was the Wednesday and Friday; the first in computation being our Sabaoth or Sunday. 
f Heres: 75.  Epiphanius hath as much, who is he in all the world, which assenteth not that on the fourth day, and the day before the Sabaoth (he meaneth the jews Sabaoth which was Saturday) a fast is decreed in the Church? And if we must also bring forth the Constitution of the Apostles, how they did there decree, that on the fourth day & that before the Sabaoth, there should be fasting everis where, the Pentecost excepted etc. And in another 
g In conclusion. liber contt. heres.  place he hath, That the fasts were so delivered by the Apostles of Christ. Thus some of the most ancient kept them in a form differing from that of these modern times. Where also you may observe that it was the fashion of those times, to attribute to the Apostles all things for which themselves were earnest, if they had been so derived to them from their predecessors, that they well knew not the first erecter or inventor of them, which before the end of this Chapter will be more manifested. But for this present, Saint Augustine who lived after Epiphanius, and for his judicious labours was inferior to none of the worthiest Fathers of the Church, upon good advice speaketh thus, 
h Epist: 8●…  If you ask my opinion in this matter, I revolving it in my mind do see that in the writings of the Evangelistes and Apostles, and in all, that which is called the New Testament fasting is commanded. But upon whaat days we ought not to fast, and on what dates we should, I do not see it defined by the precept of the Lord or his Apostles. If Saint Augustine had ever heard of any authentical Constitution from the Apostles, here had been a good time to have mentioned it. And so it had been for Saint chrysostom, when he teacheth his hearers, that God had left virginity & fasting not as matters imposed on men by necessity, but arbitrary and at their own choice. His words are these, 
i In 1●… ad Corint: Homil. 9:  Thou canst not fast, nor exercise virginity. But thou mayest of thou wilts, and those who can, do accuse us. Yet notwithstanding God hath not been so severe and rough to us, neither hath he commanded these things nor appointed them by l●…we, but hath lest them in the free-will and choice of the auditors. These Fathers than could not find that any set days of fasting were imposed by GOD, by the Apostles, or any other of sufficient power, else they would not have spoken as they did. And among the Canons fathered on the Apostles as 
k In concilijs.  Isidore citeth them, there is no such matter to be found, which maketh us bold upon the warrant of all these, to think the speech of Epiphanius to be too large: and that so much the rather, because 
l Vt supra.  Origene who went long before him mentioneth the days, but hath not one word, that they were so ordered by the Apostles. These are therefore constitutions but of men, & they who came after them especially in the Western Church, have varied from them, as appeareth by rather accepting of Saturday then Wednesday, or by adding some where this last to the other, which showeth that they themselves imagined the ordinance not to be Apostolical. We then finding them so at first erected & then varied by men, do hold them but to be human constitutions, & for order & comeliness sake we retain them, as having received them from our Ancestors, concerning whom we are of that judgement whereof every mild & sober man should be, that is to say, for the reverence which he beareth his predecessors, to profess that he willingly receiveth from them, all things, which he doth not find either directly or by a consequent contrary to the word of God. This rule directeth us in these set days for fish, & we keep them, but yet teaching our people in what sort, for order & decency not for religion & superstition. For we dare not go so far as Papists do, but we rather abominate their doctrine, when they make the keeping of fasting days one of the 
m Horae beatisi virgins. Vaux in Catechis:  commandments of their Church, and annex unto them that the 
n Vaux Ibi.  charitable keeping of these commandments bringeth everlasting life: but the contemning of these precepts and such like of holy Church, bringeth everlasting damnation, & do so hardly pursue those who have eaten forbidden meats on their fish days, as that nothing but life will make satisfaction for the same. According whereunto a 
o Centur: 16: in An. 1538.  young gentleman of Tholose was served in France, being burnt to ashes at Paris for eating flesh, when it was not permitted by the Roman Synagogue. The like examples I might produce of men so served in Scotland for the same cause, and England hath had some mightily molested thereabout.  
12 I might add some other circumstances appertaining to fasting, as that there ought to be no opinion of merit in it, since our best works are in themselves defective, and our very 
p Isai: 64. 6.  righteousness is but like to a menstruous cloth: but our request must be that GOD will accept the work for his CHRIST'S sake. Also that it be not in hypocrisy, as theirs was whom CHRIST 
q Mat: 6: 161  reproved for making a show before men; or as that of the Pharisee was, who told the 
r Luc: 18. 12.  Lord that he fasted twice in the week. Of such abstinence as this is, Saint Cyprian doth speak, 
s De jeiunio christl.  Fasting doth oftentimes puff up a man, and doth drive him to pride and hypocrisy. Lastly there must be as great a care to abstain from sin as from meat. The Prophet 
s Cap 58: 6:  Esay doth most significantly express this, Is not this the fasting which I have chosen, to loose the bands of wickedness, to take of the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? And the Fathers of the Church do frequently ingeminate it, as Origene, 
t Homil. ●…ot in Levitic:  Fast from all sin, take no meat of malice, eat no dainties of pleasure. So Basile, 
u In Isai●…:  Not by and by in the forbearing of meat is that force of the mind, wherewith we contend to perfection, sufficient of itself, unless the soul do steadfastly settle itself in all kind of abstinence from those things which do maintain naughtiness. For as a man consisteth of a body and a soul, so there are twofold meats etc. Saint Ambrose speaketh yet more plainly, 
u Serm: 33:  This is the will of the LORD, that we should fast from meats and also from sins. That we should enjoin our body abstinence, that we may the more with draw our souls from vices: for a body which is drawn dry is a bridle to a luxurious soul. I will shut this up with the speech of Gregory, 
x Homil. 16: in 40: Homilijs:  To sanctify a fast, is (joining other good things) to show an abstinence of the flesh worthy of God. Let anger cease, let chiding be allayed. For the flesh is pulled down in vain, if the mind be not refrained from her evil pleasures. Thus you see what our Church holdeth concerning fasting: we allow, and commend it, and teach it as well as you; but we jump not with you in your jewish superstitions: we attribute no sanctity to the difference of meats, neither in religion do we hold ourselves tied to days of true fasting, although by civil laws which are to be obeyed for conscience sake, we are tied to fish days. God accepteth not the one food before the other. True fasting is to receive no sustenance or very little, as may be seen by the 
y jonas 3: 7:  Ninivits who did eat no food & drink no water, & so will good Christians deal by themselves when others do not know it, & on such days as in their own heart they appropriate to that use: for we have a liberty so to do as Origen telleth us, A 
z Homil: 10 in Levitic.  Christian hath liberty to fast at any time, not with superstition of observation, but with the virtue of containing. And thus far have I followed you concerning fasting days. Now some thing also touching Lent.  
13 Your proposition is that Lent and fasting days were kept in the time of the old Fathers as you keep them now. I have in part showed the vanity of that assertion for the one already. Now let us see for the other. When the first keeping of a Lent began it is hard to say. S. Hierome ascribeth the or daining thereof to the Apostles. For 
a Episto. 54:  he showing the difference between the Orthodox and the Montanistes, among other matters saith that the Montanists yearly kept three Lents, but we do fast one Lent in the whole year according to the tradition of the. Apostles. And this place doth 
b De inventorib. Rer. lib. 6. 3.  Polydore Virgil cite out of Hierome, as referring the institution of Lent to the Apostles of Christ. But we are of opinion that in this matter Hierome is favourably to be understood, at calling that which was ancient, and the set beginning whereof was not distinctly known, by the name of an Apostolical tradition: but no way being able to prove, that by them it was ordained. The reasons of this our assertion are, first that we think it cannot be found in any of the writers of the first three hundred years, who lived nearest to the days of the Apostles, that they decreed it. Origene speaketh of Lent, but goeth not so far. We have the days of Lent consecrated unto fastings. secondly if the Apostles had ordained it, they would have set 
Homil. 10 in, Levitic.  down some order and manner of it, in one uniformity to all the Church; but of that we find no step or mark among those of the Primitive times, but exceeding great disagreement many ways, as forthwith I shall declare. Thirdly we find somewhat expressly to the contrary, and that not where this matter is touched obiter and slightly as by Hierome, but where the whole state of Lent is of purpose rifled and discussed, as shall presently be touched. Eusebius 
d Eccl hist: lib: 5. 24:  speaking of the heat of Victor the Roman Bishop in excommunicating the Eastern Churches, for not jumping with the Western in the circumstances of observing Easter, signifieth withal that the Bishops of the West did much dislike the attempt of Victor. Amongst other Ireneus who lived in France, writeth to Victor about it, whose words Eusebius citeth thus: This controversio is not only of the date of Easter, but also of the order and manner of the Fast. For some do think that they ought to fast one day, others two, divers more, ma●…te forty, and they do measure and make up the day, reckoning all the hours of the dait and night. And such variety and difference of those who observed these fasts did not beginn●… in our age, but long before among our anncesters, who (as a man may guess) did not strictly observe the custom of them, who tither by a certain simplicitis or by a private authority had determined some thing against future time. Thus the case of Lent stood most uncertainelye, about two hundred years or less after Christ's birth, and Ireneus saith that this difference had been also among their predecessors much before, so that hitherto we may well collect, that in the first Church there was no determinate uniform certainty in the keeping of Lent; which doubtless had not been wanting, if the Apostles had been the erecters or founders thereof. 〈◊〉 Socrates hath a long tract, 
Eccl. Hist. lib: 5: 21:  first concerning the keeping of Easter, which he plainly saith grew to be diversely observed among men, by custom and not by any law from the Apostles, although, saith he, they of Asia say that they have their tradition from Saint john the Evangelist, and they of Rome say they have theirs from Saint Peter. But he rejecteth both their sayings, because they could bring no written testimony of either of these, which is a good course for us also to examine traditions called Apostolical by. From Easter he cometh to Lent, and therein showeth, that even in his days which was late, the manner of keeping of it was very different. Those saith he who are at Rome do fast three weeks together before Easter, the Saterdaie and the Sunday being excepted. But they who devil in Illyria and all Greece; and they who devil at. Alexandria do six weeks before begin those fasts which are kept before Easter, and that time they call Lente. Some contrary to the custom of these, making seven weeks before that feast the beginning of their fasting, although they do fast only fifteen days, and that with some distance being put between, yet notwithstanding they call this Quadragesima or Lent. Whereupon I do not a little wonder how these though they differ in the number of the days, yet all call it by one name Quadragesima. Divers do give divers reasons of this name, devised of their own head. Moreover they do not only differ in the number of the days, but in their abstinence from meat they follow divers courses. For some do altogether abstain from all kind of living creatures: some among living creatures do eat only fishes, some together with fish do eat also birds, and do say that they are bred of the water, (as it is in Moses.) Some do forbear from fruits covered with hard shells, and from eggs: others do eat dry bread only, others not so much as that. There be who when they have fasted to the ninth hour do use various kinds of meats. In several nations they fast severally, whereof there are almost infinite causes. And because no man can show any precepts concerning it set down in writing, it is manifest that the Apostles therein did give free power to every man, mind and will, that each man should do that which is good, being induced unto it neither by fear nor necessity. This several sort of fasting we do know to be in the Churches.  
14 Hence then judge whither it came from the Apostles or no, and confer these things with the place of Saint Augustine before mentioned, where he speaketh in general of fasting days. And here Doctor Hill appeareth your great skill in antiquity, when contrary to so direct records, you avouch that your Lent and fasting days are now kept as they were in the days of the old Fathers, which is as false as any thing possibly can be, yea taking it of the very Church of Rome itself, which so late as Socrates lived, (that is at least till Theodosius the younger) kept it but three weeks, and that with some days interrupted. And lest that you should think that only Socrates reporteth this, hear 
f Sozom. l. 7 19  Sozomen in the same argument, who entreating of the several customs of divers Churches in many circumstances, saith thus of Lent, That Lent wherein the people fasteth, some do reckon for six weeks of days, as the Illyrians and those who are toward the West, as also all Lybia and Egypt with them of Palestina: some for seven as they of Constantinople, and the nations lying about even to the Phaenicians; some seatteringly or interruptedly do fast three weeks in these six or seven: other do continuately keep the three weeks which immediately go before Easter: some two weeks, as the followers of Monta●…. Such variety of opinions was there in the Primitive Church. It is now the resolution of our Romanists that Lent is no Lent unless it be for forty days, since it is an imitation of Christ who fasted 
g Mat: 4: 2:  forty days and forty nights. But besides that there are other reasons assigned, why it should be for that space. 
h Aq●…: 2: 2▪ q. 147. art. 5  Aquinas out of Gregory as he saith, yieldeth us these, First because the virtue of the ten commandments is fulfilled by the four books of the holy Gospel. And the number of ten being multiplied by four, ariseth to forty. Or because in this mortal body we consist of the four elements, by the pleasures of which body we go against the commandments of the Lord, which are received by the ten commandments. Whereupon it is fit that we should afflict that flesh forty times. Or because so we strive to offer to God the tith of our days. For since the year is continued for 365. days, and we are afflicted for thirty six days, which are to be fasted in the six weeks of the Lent, we do as it were yield to God the ●…the or tenth of our year. Here a man may know some reasons more than he knew before, why Lent consisteth of forty days. But what ado there was to hammer it to this set number, it is marvelous to behold. There are certain decrees which are put out in the names of some of the most ancient Bishops of Rome. Among these, 
i Decretal. Epist Teles phori. Anastas. in vita Telesp.  Telesphorus is made to write thus, We do decree that seven full weeks before the holy Easter, all Clergy men, that is such as are called into the lot of the Lord shall fast from flesh, because as the life of Clergy men should be different from the conversation of lay men, so also in their fasting there should be a difference. Here then the Clergy did fast fifty days rather than forty, keeping no Shrovetide, but beginning Lent at Quinquagesima, and fasting the Sundays as well as the rest. For so Polydore 
k Lib. 6. 3.  Virgil collecteth upon the place, for fifty days they were to fast every day, not one being omitted. And the words of the Decree do carry so much, seven full weeks. But see what an inconvenience did arise hereupon. A supposed Constitution of the Apostles was broken by this. For some hold that on the lords day or Sundaye no Christian might fast. Where once again we find that matters which may most justly be doubted of, are called Constitutions or traditions Apostolical. For how came it about that the most ancient Fathers and the writer of the Epistle fathered on Telesphorus knew not that there was such an ordinance? Well, 
l Haeres. 70:  Epiphanius speaking of fasting and mourning, saith it is an ordinance of the Apostles, He who afflicteth his soul on the lords day, is accursed to GOD And in 
m In Conclus libri contra haereses.  another place speaking as plainly, he saith that there were no fasts upon the LORDS days, and that therefore the Communion was celebrated in the morning, that afterwards they might eat that day. How may that of Telesphorus and this supposed Apostolical custom or Constitution stand together? And yet 
n Part: 1: Decret. Distinct. 4. 5.  Gratian as late as he written, which is about four hundred years since was contented to cite that Decree of Telesphorus, as if it might have his use in our days, either to know it or to keep it.  
15 Now did those who came after, like of this supposed ordinance of that Roman Archbishop? No such matter: For concerning the length of time the Council of Orleans did take order by an express Canon, 
o Concil. Aurelian: Canon: 20:  This is decreed for all Priests, that before the solemnity of Easter, not Quinquagesima, but Quadragesima shall be held. Thus the time of the clergies Lent was abridged. That the time of fifty days was in use before it may appear by Saint 
p Serm de Eb●…tate.  Basile mentioning that the fast of Lent was for seven weeks. Where by the way this may be noted that these words cross that other speech cited by me before touching the fast only of five days, and therefore one of the two Sermons may go for a counterfeit. Touching fasting on the Sundaye, another Pope not long after is brought in to correct that. And this is 
q Decret: Me●…chad  Melchiades, who in his Decretal Epistle is thus set down to write, The fast then of the lords day and of Thursday no man must celebrate, that there may be a true and unfeigned difference, between the fast of the Christians and the Gentiles: of these who do believe truly, and of Infidels and Heretics. Thus the Sundaye is leapt out of Lent: But here is another trouble withal: for by this Decree it hath taken away the Thursday also, and so the days of Lente are shrewdly shrunk. In this distraction was the old Church about this fast, no man almost being able distinctly to tell what to make of it for the number of the days. They who hearkened to Telesphorus had a Quinquagesima for a Quadragesima, fifty or at least forty and nine days for forty. They who began at Quadragesima Sunday and kept all till Easter, had forty and two days to their Lente, and so as 
r Vbi supra.  Polidore hath, for a good while it was kept. They who began at Quadragesima, and slippeth out the Sundays had but thirty and six days to which Aquinas alludeth as before is signified: And if after Melchiades they would cull out Thursdaies' too, the forty would be but thirty. Hear then at last to mend all, and to strike the final stroke, cometh Gregory the Great about six hundred years after CHRIST, and because he will have forty days, and yet the Sundays too put out of question to be no fasting days, he added 
s Poli. Virg: ut supra:  four days more to Lent, that is to say those which are before the Sunday termed Quadragesima, beginning Lent on that Wednesday which for the solemnity of ashes then appointed by him to be used, is called Ashe-wednesdey, from which time until Easter-day, if the Sundays be quite exempted from the number, there may be reckoned forty days. And that in Gregory's time the Sundays were so shut out, appeareth partly by that of himself testifying that 
s Homil. 16: in 40: Homil:  they did not celebrate fast on the LORDS day in the Lente. So that we may say of this Lent, as it was said of Rome. 

t Virgil: Aeneid: ●:  Tantae molis erat Romanam condere gentem,   
And yet there be in England persons Popishly affected, who if they be questioned withal, are not quite resolved in the point, whether the first four days after Shrovetide be properly of Lent or no: whether that be but a preparing and cleansing week, and whether good-Fridaye as it is called, and Easter Even be to be solemnized as a part of a Lenten fast, or for some other reason, and so consequently whether the Sundays be not to be fasted as natural members and a true portion of the forty days or no, and if they be not to be so fasted, then by what rule a man may not eat flesh upon them? Thus is Popery tied together with points. When therefore you right learned M. Doctor do so clerke-like tell us that in the days of Saint Basile, Saint Gregory Nazianzene, Saint Leo, S. chrysostom, Lent and other fasting days were used as they are now in the Catholic Church, are you not ashamed of yourself, and do you not condemn either your own ignorance for writing you know not what, or audaciousness for assevering so earnestly that which is so grossly false? But you do well to uphold Popery by that means; the doctrine of Antichrist and Satan by all kind of lies. If you cannot blush for yourself, yet all modest Papists may blush for you, to find in what sort such companions as you are, make no conscience to say aught in that, which they hold to be their religion. I have taken a little pains to instruct you concerning the first, ancient and most different observation of Lent: and I let you farther know, that for uniformity with other Christian Churches, and conformity to that which we received from those who so long agone went before us, we keep Lent, not superstitiously as you and yours do, but according to the laws of our most Christian Magistrates, who command an abstinence from flesh, not for any sanctity which is in such forbearing, but for other wise and civil reasons. And as herein our law alloweth a toleration to such as by necessity of sickness or otherwise are enforced to feed on flesh, so it convinceth all such as wilfully or carelessly do transgress without any other reason saving their own greedy appetite. So that we account such men offenders before God, albeit not simply and immediately for the eating of God's creatures, yet consequently for dis-obeying the Edicts of godly Princes, to whom they are to yield obsequiousness, and that for 
u Rom: 13: 5  conscience sake. In this therefore you very discreetly accuse us of you cannot tell what, as you do in that also which now followeth.  T. HILL. 
AND they who be given to Lust, to Gluttony, to Ambition, to Covetousness and do teach such doctrine as necessarily bringeth forth such fruits, must needs contemn S. Basile, S. chrysostom, S. Hierome and S. Austen, who have written so excellently of the Order, Rule, and Virtues of Monks.  G. ABBOT. 
16 HEre now followeth a rabble of wicked slanders, to which you are so enured, that you be not yourself, unless almost in every leaf you plentifully power them out. You charge us here with many sins: and truth it is that in our Realm there are too many, as there will ever be in the militant Church. But yet it is easy to be justified, that the Gospel hath so far imprinted the fear of God in some, & the good laws established the fear of man in other, that no Popish Realm nor Country may for moral civil behaviour be compared to England. Those brutish & beastly sensual sins which are commonly winked at in Italy and in your Pope's court, are scant known among us, and here lesser sorts of luxury & wantonness lie subject to both Ecclesiastical and temporal punishment. The filthy lubricity of many Papists is grown to a Proverb long since amongst us, and yet they would persuade men that they live under the cross & in persecution. Yea what may be supposed is done at liberty, (whereof I leave the testification to a marginal note of M. 
u Quodli. 2 Articul: 2:  watson's in his Quodlibets) when your Priests and Prisoners restrained at Wisbich are publicly in print questioned one by another, as about other disorders, so namely for 
x Manifest. ca 1.  whoredom. But of this more largely hereafter. For gluttony who ever exceeded your Pseudo-Catholikes on their fish days, and double feasts, or your monks the belly-gods of the world, the knights of Bacchus and Ceres, the sty-fed swine of Europe? This byword was not for nought, 
O monachi, vestri stomachi sunt amphora Bacchi,  
Vos estis, Deus est testis, turpissima pestis,  As for ambition, all the earth cannot put down the Cardinals of Rome, and the inferior Prelates under them. What tumults were there wont to be about every Bishopric or rich Abbay, two or three striving for it, and running or sending to Rome, to see whither could out-bribe other. No man is more plentiful in this argument than 
y In Hen: 3:  Matthew Paris. What endless ambition is there and hath there been in aspiring to the Papacy, Kings & Princes being set one against another for Pope's causes, and in the time of Antipapes a great part of Christendom being up in arms, some on the one side, & some on another. It is not forgotten how in England the Archbishops of Canterbury and York have striven for priority, their crosses which rather should have taught them humility iutting each with other, and the bearers of them being ready to justle each other from the wall, in the presence of the Clergy and Nobility of the Realm. Nay if there were nothing else to show the ambition of the Romanists, yet let us not now be blind at home, where in 
z Quodl. 2: 7  printed books, there hath been question made between the jesuits and secular Priests concerning precedence in going, and between Priests and other of their religion for places at table, so unfitly and immodestly, as would rather beseem vain and weake-witted women, than men who profess themselves to be of learning and gravity, besides the greatest tie of their Ecclesiastical function. But every Papist doth well to imitate the Pope his holy Father, who setteth himself above all Kings and Emperors, and therefore they may do suitably to go before as many as they can, not in 
a Rom. 12: 10  giving but in taking honour. Yet Christ the best Master hath taught another lesson, 
b Mat: 11: 29  Take my yoke on you, and learn of me, that I am humble and meek. Lastly for covetousness, who ever on earth exceeded the Romish synagogue, who by the manors and large possessions given them had almost devoured whole Europe; and by their Bulls sent abroad, as also by their dispensations at home did show themselves the most cunning Alchimistes in the world to turn in many places a little lead into a great deal of gold, which was fitly 
c Premier Recucil fol 767.  likened to the change of Diomedes and Glaucus in Homer. Add to this the infinite riches which they had by continual Legacies, Vows, Offerings and Gifts, whereof monuments may yet be seen in Rome, Paris, Colein and other places, in their crosses, Images, shrines, and many other things of pure massy gold with plenty of precious stones; and as once might have appeared in the treasures belonging to Thomas Becket at Canterbury, which as 
d Peregrin: Relig. ergo  Erasmus who saw them describeth them, did far surpass the riches of many a king. To contract this matter, the story is well known how King 
e Io Fox. in Richard. 1.  Richard the first bestowed the three daughters in marriage whom one Fulco put him in mind of, I mean those dangerous daughter's Pride, Covetousness and Luxury. He placed Pride with the Templars, Avarice with the Cistertian Monks, and Luxury with the pompous Prelates of the Church. Such good opinion was in those days to be carried concerning the mortified persons of the romish clergy.  
17 In this place I find that you exceed yourself, if possibly that might be. You set up here to yourself a ladder of untruths, whereon you may by every round or step come higher and higher to the father of lies. We are given to lust, gluttony, ambition, covetousness; that is your lowest step. Then, we teach doctrine which must necessarily bring forth such fruits. After this, we contemn Saint Basile, Saint chrysostom, Saint Hierome, Saint Augustine. Then to the end that you may bear the garland from all your fellows, generally the doctrine of the aunient Fathers, is clean contrary to the doctrine of Protestants. 
f ●…ul secundo de Ova●…ore  Hannibal saw many doting old men, but never such a one as Phormio. But I turn back unto you. 
g Staphyl. in Apolog.  You have long muttered that we teach a doctrine of liberty, and we set open the gate to all profaneness. Notwithstanding this is a slander of your own invention, neither are you able to name one learned and approved Protestant, who ever in his preaching or writing could justly be charged with any such matter. Only your spleen is against that point of faith in Christ, which while you labour to oppugn, you do wrong to us, but more to God, & to his Son our Saviour, the power of whose redemption you extenuat at your pleasure, to set up your own merits. Whereas we do teach that the same faith when occasion is offered, doth 
h Galat: 5. 6  work by love, is seen in his fruits, & can no more be without a Christian conversation, than fire without heat, or water without moisture. This we hold: whereas contrariwise I appeal to the conscience of yourself, as also to the conscience of every indifferently minded man, whither Popery be not the open gap to a gulf of all ungodliness, when the absolution of a Priest shall be said to free a man from hell; the Indulgence of a Pope, the same person from Purgatory; the pardon of such a one as cannot forgive his own sins (for the 
i Rhemens'. Thess. 2: 4:  Pope himself confesseth to another Priest and is absolved by him) shall clear a man from poisoning, murdering, whoring & all uncleanness; when satisfactions to Godward may be wrought & made for men's transgressions. The infection of this & the like leprosies maketh Papists audacious to do any thing, & then let them go barefoot about the Ascension week, or whip themselves on good-Friday, let them go to Rome at a lubiley, or on Pilgrimage at other times, but especially let than come to confession & have absolution, & they are as clean from the gilt, as if they had never committed any such facts. This confidence maketh the life of many of your false named Catholics to be a contagious sink of execrable lewdness, no pen being able to paint out their filthiness, which as elsewhere it may be exemplified, so principally in Rome that singular cage of foul and unclean birds. I was once in Oxford present with two prisoners convicted of a murder, the one was named Parrhy, a kinsman of the great traitor Doctor Parrhy; the other was called Richardson. When this Parrhy after many villainies in England and beyond the seas, had finally as a robber murdered upon the way a drover carrying with him good store of money, & it much grieved his fellow Richardson then being in company, that Parrhy had slain the man, & Richardsons' conscience, as himself reported to me & other, could in no sort be appeased about the fright & remorse thereof, Parrhy bade him not dismay himself, but prepare as soon as he could to fly after him into Ireland (for thither indeed the principal murderer was hastening) and from thence they would to Rome, where he had been with his uncle Doctor Parrhy before, and knew the fashions of the place, & there he undertook to get a pardon of his Holiness, and all should be as well as if it had never been. This Parrhy told me that he had been a Page to a Cardinal in Rome, an attendant on the Duke of Guise slain by the commandment of Henry the third of France, and of guard to the Duke of Parma, and therefore may be well supposed to have known Popish fashions. And of certainty he lived a●… Romanist and so professed himself at the time of his execution. I could add more examples of this nature showing that Papists want no incouragementes to sin.  
18 On the contrary part we simply and absolutely dehort our people from all crimes, laying the judgements of God before such as transgress in the same. We lay unto them the text of the Apostle that the 
k Gal. 5: 19:  works of the flesh are adultery, fornication, uncleanness, wantonness, Idolatry, witchcraft●…, hatred debate, emulations, wrath, contentions, seditions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, gluttony, and they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And that 
l Hebr: 13▪ 4.  Whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. That, as 
m De jeiunio christi.  Cyprian telleth us, fornicators and adulterers have thee Satan for their suggestour: they shall have thee for their tormentor: revenging flames shall burn both thee and them. Concerning gluttony we put them in mind of Christ's speech, 
n Luc: 21:  Take heed unto yourselves least at any time your heart be oppressed with surfeiting and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day came on you un-awares. And of that in Saint Paul, 
o Rom: 13: 13:  Let us walk honestly as in the day, not in gluttony and drunkenness, neither in chambering nor wantonness. To which may be joined that of S. Ambrose, 
p De Noah & Arca c: 9  What is more unseemly than evermore to be attending to the belly, which when it is filled is to be emptied, & when it is emptied, is to be filled again? Touching ambition, we stir men up, that they should imitate the modesty of 
q johan: 1: 20:  john the Baptist, who took no honour to himself, but resigned it all to his master Christ. And the humility of S. Paul who avouched of himself & his fellows, 
t ¹: Thes: 2: 6:  Neither sought we praise of men, neither of you, nor of others. But especially the meekness of Christ our blessed Lord, who being urged by his kinsmen to show some 
s Ioh: 7: 3:  miraculous works so to make himself famous, refused, & would not condescend to their humourous motion. And for the repressing of this sin, we cite that of S. Bernard, 
s De considerate: ad Eugen: lib. 3: 1:  O ambition the very cross of those who be ambitious, how dost thou torturing all, please all? Nothing doth vex more bitterly: nothing doth disquiet more troublesomly, & yet among wretched men there is nothing more ordinary than the exercises thereof. Lastly for Covetousness, we say with Christ, 
t Luc: 12: 〈◊〉.  Take heed and beware of covetousness, for though a man have abundance, yet his life standeth not in his riches. And with Saint Paul, 
u 1. Tim: 6: 10.  The love of money is the root of all evil, which while some lusted after, they erred from the faith●… and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. And we think it not amiss to remember the covetous person of that in Saint Augustine, 
u A●…g. in Psal. 123:  Take with thee to hell that which thou hast gotten. What wilt thou does Thou hast gotten gold, thou hast lost thy faith. After a few days thou departest out of this life. The gold which thou hast gotten with the losing of thy faith, thou ca●…st not take with thee. Thy heart which is void of faith goeth forth to pains, which if it had b●…n full of faith, should have gone out to a crown. These & the like doctrines out of the holy Scriptures & Fathers we do daily lay open to our hearers against these sins. Our Sermons and books are full of them: and on the other side we stir them up to chastity, to sobriety, to temperance, to humility, to bounty toward the poor, and therefore your report in this behalf is a matter very ordinary with you and yours: but in the presence of God and men, a most malicious slander.  
19 You have been bold with us already, making small spare and less conscience to lay upon us any unjust imputation, and the fowler, the more pleasing to you, and now forward you go in the same, that is in your own vain. We must needs contemn S. Basile, S. chrysostom, S. Hierome, and S. Augustine. How far are we from despising them, the excellent lights of the Primitive Church, the noble instruments of God's glory in their time, may be gathered from that which I have said before, from our reading and studying of them, from the manifold printing & revising of them by men of our side, & that in divers places, from our using of them in disputations, & our citing of them in the pulpit. Nevertheless it is not to be expected that your malice should ever say well. S. Basile we reckon a famous Bishop of the East, 
x Gregor. Naz. orat. 30:  brought up at Athens, & so completed with human literature, the equal, love, & dear companion of that Gregory Nazianzen, who for his high & mystical knowledge in Divinity was thought worthy to be called with an excellency Theologus: whose work touching the 
y Basil: Hex●…merō.  6. days of the creation, seemed so admirable, that S. Ambrose was contented to imitate it, yea almost to make himself only a translator of it. The golden streams of S. Chrysostom's eloquence we hold well near incomparable, & his frequent similitudes & comparisons to be so familiar, & yet so significant and lively, that we account him scant worthy the name of an eminent preacher to the people, who hath not been conversant in his works. We think S. Hierome for his learning not unworthy to be called a wonder of the world: his universal knowledge, & especially in the sacred tongues, together with his ponderous style are honourable among all who know good letters. Saint Augustine for his judgement goeth beyond them all: his reading was great as most of all appeareth in 
z De civitate Dei,  one tract of his, being the most noble of all his writings: his diligence, his zeal, and acuteness against heretics, have won him everlasting praise: and so do we esteem of his works, that we hold him much dis-furnished in the study of Divinity, especially for school-learning and grappling with an adversary, who is not well acquainted with him. Such is the contempt that we carry to these reverend persons: nay if it were not for avoiding unnecessary tediousness, we should much farther extol their due-deserved commendation, Why then do we basely regard them? Because we be given to lust and gluttony, and they have written so excellently of the Order, Rule, and Virtues of Monks. This hangeth wonderful well together. Do all who are given to covetousness, ambition, gluttony, and lust, hate monks and monkery, & all who have prescribed good rules unto them? Then your Pope and cardinals, and all the whole sinful Court of Rome must stand arraigned for that crime: for each man of any understanding knoweth how they abound in those vices. And besides if precepts for Monkery be so contrary to these sins, must not the practice of them in a Monkish life be much more remote from them? And was it never heard that Nunryes' or Monasteries of women, have had many young bones of little children found in them, which came not thither without lust: or that many Monks were little better than misshaped gorbellied monstrous Epicures, which arose not without gluttony: or that in the elections of their priors, Abbots and Bishops, there was infinite competition, with all kind of striving, banding and canvasing, which was not without ambition: or that some of their vowed men (especially that famous fellow mentioned by 
a De moribus German.  Aeneas Silvius) have left great sums of money in secret behind them, which were neither gotten nor kept without avarice? Thus nothing can be more certain, than that men who love the sins which you name, may be favourers of Monks, & the Monastical creatures have & do commonly bathe themselves in such noted crimes.  
20 Well, S. Basile hath written many things concerning Monks. It may be questioned whether he hath or no for there is great doubt whether those be his books wherein most is contained touching that argument. But if we should allow you your desire, he hath no where said more of that matter, then in a 
b Serm: Quomodo ornaretur Monach:  Sermon where he describeth the qualities of right monks, from which qualities these late ones are very far distant. And Saint 
c In 1: Tim: Homil: 14.  chrysostom showeth how holy & religious the Monasteries in his time were, to the which if these later Cloister-men had kept them we should have found less to be discommended in them. Howbeit chrysostom did not so much admire them, that he thought their life to be the only means of perfection, or that sanctity and the true service of God, was scant any where to be found but in them, which some doting one's in these ages not long since passed, have laboured to insinuate into the minds of men. But he spoke thus freely to the contrary: 
d In Gen. Homil 43:  where are they who sae that it is not possible, that a man living in the midst of a city should keep virtue: but he had need of retiredness, and a certain conversation amongst the mountains, and that he who is overseer of his own house, and hath a wife and taketh care of children and servaunts cannot be endued with virtue? Thus he supposed that men in a monastery might do well, and so might other also. S. Hierome who upon some more than ordinary occasion withdrew himself from Rome, and lived more privately in Palestina, grew to be a 
e Invita ●…ilarionis & saepè.  hyperbolical commender of hermits, monks, and cloistered Virgins, which life he blazoneth so with his Rhetorical colours, that every man must confess that his words go too far if they be literally taken. And yet when divers other were greedy to come from Rome to Jerusalem, that they might live there sequestered as he did, he disliked it, and said that 
f Epist: 13:  heaven gate did stand open as well to a man in Britain as at Jerusalem. Then were there in England few or no Monasteries at all. As for S. Austen he describeth the piety and exercises of ancient 
g De mo●…ib. Eccle Cathol. lib: 1: 31:  Monks and Caenobites of both sexes, and writing upon the Psalms he saith, 
h In Ps. 99:  In that common life of brethren which is in a Monastery, great holy men being daily in hymns, in prayers, in the praises of God, do live thereupon. They meddle much with reading. They labour with their own hands: thence theymaintaine themselves: they ask not any thing covetously. Whatsoever is brought in unto them by godly brethren, they use it with sufficiency & with charity. Noman doth usurp to himself any thing, which anothermay not have. All love themselves: all sustain one another. And yet the same S. Austen was not so simple, but that he spied under this habit of holiness much woolvishnes in his time, as cannot be concealed when he said thus, 
i Epist. 137.  I do plainly confess unto your charity, before our Lord God who is a witness upon my soul, since I began to serve God, as I hardly have found better men than those which have profited in monasteries, so I have not had trial of worse than those who have fallen in monasteries. And in his book written purposely concerning Monks, he describeth many monks of his time to be 
k De opere Monachorum c: 28:  nought, idle, wandering up & down, setting at sale the relics of martyrs, if they were the relics of martyrs. Notwithstanding our late Votaries do lay closer hold on S. Austen then on any one of the Fathers: for they give it out that he was the founder of the Augustine Friars, and that rabble would derive their pedigree from him, as some of the both old and late Cloisterers would draw their descent from Elias and john the Baptist, which 
l Sozom: 1: 12:  Sozomen mentioneth to have been talked of in his time. For this purpose they give out that Saint Austen went in his monkish cool and attire, clean contrary to that which is reported in his life by Possidonius who lived with him. His 
m Possidons in vita Aug, cap: 22:  apparel and shoes and bedde-stuffe, were of a moderate and competent quality, neither to neat nor too very abject, because in these for the most part men do either use insoleutlie to boast themselves, or to abject themselves by both, not seeking those things which are jesus CHRIST'S but their own. But this blessed man as I say kept the mean, neither declining to the right hand nor to the lefts. Thus saith Possidonius, whereupon Erasmus fitly asketh this question, 
n Observat. in margin  Where was thou the leathern girdle and the black cowl? But besides this, they have forged certain 
o Ad fratres in eremo.  books in the name of S. Augustine, as if he the Bishop of Hippon, had given orders and instructions to his Friars under him. But this is as like the work of S. Austen, as an Owl is like an Eagle, or a Cuckoo to a Nightingale, as the improbability of many things which are in it, the baseness of the matter, the barbarousness of the style, the foolish and shameless narrations, and many other things may demonstrate to every one who hath but half an eye, or one grain of salt in him. Yet so must Popery be peeced together, with a fair title at the least although the stuff be rotten.  
21 Hear look we back a little to the ancient Monks: and not any way curiously to trace their original, were there not even almost in the very time of their first institution many absurdities and incongruous superstitions which did creep in, every one by a voluntary will-worship adding what he thought good? Was not the great 
p Sozo. 1: 13  Anthony who had so many followers, a man utterly unlearned, and did not he think even the least knowledge a hindrance to his speculative devotion? Did not the Heremits show great presumption, when being but simple persons divers of them, they wilfully refused the society of men, & the fellowship of communion of Saints, by their solitarynesse putting themselves more freely upon Satan's temptations, by debarring their souls of the word preached, the Sacrament of the lords supper received, and the comfort of the Minister or any other Christian brother? Did not the too exquisite severity of 
q Lib: 3: 13:  Eustathius the Monk (who is supposed to be the true author of the book entitled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, & commonly reported to be S. Basiles, where so much is of the life & discipline of Monks) grow to absurd observations, and such as were quite disagreeing from the laws Ecclesiastical? There are reckoned up many opinions of him & his scholars, which were condemned in a Council at Gangrae, as that he disliked marriage, would not pray in their houses who were wedded, despised married Priests, thought rich men to be shut out from heaven, detested those who eat flesh, and other such like monkish imaginations. Some women persuaded by him or his, lest their husbands, put on men's apparel, and fell to adultery. These persons lived about the time of the forenamed Fathers, who in their books commended the good parts which were then exercised, & doubtless gave those precepts which they did give, to reform the abuses. And as succeeding generations came on, did not the superstitious devises of Monks increase, as is to be seen in Evagrius? Some did shut themselves into little houses, 
r Evagr: hist Eccl. l: 1: 21:  which were so low & narrow, as that they could neither stand upright in them, nor lie otherwise then double. Some both men & women living in the wilderness did only cover their privities, & for the rest went naked both in the hottest & coldest wether. Some refusing all food of men, did eat only the grass of the ground, & would not endure the presence of any persons, but would run away and hide them in the rocks. Other counterfeiting themselves fools laboured to be without all passion. These would not refuse to go into taverns or brothelhouses: they would be in baths with women, and as among men they lived as men, so among women they were as women. Yet did those ages so dote upon monkery, that even these were commended, and held for holy men. Thus if we take these old lads in their best times, they had imperfections enough, but of the good qualities which were in any of them those who came after embraced but a few. Only the ignorance of Anthony went almost currant through all: that was as good as hereditary to them. But the old devout service of God was of late turned into hypocrisy, fasting into perpetual belly-cheer, scarcity and penury into abundance and lordly possessions of lands, charity was converted into hart-burning and envy, humility into pride, sobriety into Venereous and Sodomitish lust: their piety was but formality, their idolatry was infinite. Thus it grew forward by little and little, till it came to the height of ungodliness. How soon this began may be gathered by him who written the treatise commonly called Cyprians, De duplici martyrio, There we thus read, 
s Cypr. de dupl. mart.  Not any desert place, sacke-cloath for a garment, pulse for meat, neither fasting nor lying on the bare ground do make a perfect monk: Under these covers lieth hid sometimes a mind very worldly, which is so discovered if they be called to any Ecclesiastical office. There you shall see some of them most easily to be overcome with delights, more impatient of injuries, more desirous of vengeance than any other of the ordinary people. What is the cause? Because they have more exercised the body than the mind. This began betimes: but as they grew in years, so many of them grew in horrible wickedness. It is a long while since 
s Eccl. Hist. Ang: l: 4: 25  Beda lived: yet in his Ecclesiastical story he mentioneth that a Monastery called Colindiurbem was consumed with fire, for the lasciviousness and wantonness which was there found in both men and women. So did God punish them. But in S. Bernard's time a carnal kind of behaviour had overgrown almost all, which caused him earnestly & passionately to complain, 
t Bernard. in cena Domini cap: 3.  How many monks be there in S. benedict's monastery, who do laugh when other men do mourn; who rejoice when other are sad. In their body they are cloistered, in their minds wanderers and never standing still. Slow to their reading, tardy to their praying, in the Church sleeping, in the refectory waking. For their long watchings grieving, but for their long banquets rejoicing. This was the mortified life of many monks in that holy man's days. And how this was afterward amended in England, may be testified by the survey, which by Visitation of the King's Commissioners was taken under King Henry the eight of famous memory, when by oaths of the religious persons themselves, much Sodomitry & other uncleanness was detected, and afterward was published to the world by a printed book, some notes whereof are to be seen in the French Apology of 
u Cap. 21:  Henry Stephanus made in defence of Herodotus. Such small affinity had and have your late monks, with those of whom we read among the old writers. But for absurdities of doctrine, especially in commending themselves, they go beyond all those of ancient times, as I will instance in the Franciscanes, who maintain these points which yet are disliked by some other Papists, and by some other excused or defended. I will cite them out of a great Papist and a Capuchin, Friar Gregory of Naples. 〈◊〉 That the rule of S. Francis, is that life of jesus Christ which himself observed in this world, & imposed on his 
In libris corrigendis.  Apostles to keep, and caused to be written in the Gospels, and that whosoever do contradict this rule of S. Francis, do contradict or impugn the Gospel of Christ, and if they persevere in it, are heretics▪ That S. Francis is the Angel of whom it is said in the Apocalypse, I saw another Angel having the seal of the living God. That no man can be damned who weareth the habit of S. Francis (that is to say, saith this favourable interpreter, who together with the habit beareth works appertaining to salvation) That once a year S. Francis descendeth to Purgatory, and draweth out from thence their souls who living were of his order, and leadeth them to Paradise (that is saith the interpreter Capuchin, he goeth not actually in his own person, but by his virtue, in as much as he entreateth the Majesty of God for his brethren, & God's clemency giveth him pardon for some souls.) That the order of S. Francis shall endure for ever. Thus they teach their Novices, bring up their Friars and preach unto the people. There must needs be much virtue, goodness, and mortification, where they speak so hypocritically for themselves, & so basely or blasphemously for Christ our Saviour.  T. HILL. 
AND generally whereas the Doctrine of the ancient Fathers, is clean contrary to the Doctrine of Protestants, no marvel though they be rejected by them as they ever have been of Heretics. And although jewel in his Sermon at Paul's Cross most impudently challenged the Catholics to bring any thing for certain points of their Religion out of the Doctors of the first six hundred years, yet Laurence Humphrey 
Humfridus in vita lieu▪ ●…lli.  his pu●… fellow confessed that he gave, & granted to the Papists more than was meet and was to himself injurious etc. and so he confessed against his companion, that the Fathers of the Primitive Church were on the Papists side, and consequently not on theirs.  G. ABBOT. 
22 THis may be put in the Catalogue of your Transcendent untruths, which keep within no compass: in which behalf you are inferior to no Papist that hath wrote without a vizard. Your generally here standeth in steed of your old and ancient All so much frequented by you. Then the Doctrine of the ancient Fathers is not only contrary but clean contrary to the doctrine of Protestants. Or else you cannot tell. For if you were well opposed, I fear that scholarlike you have read over but a few of those Fathers, and that causeth you to give both so bold & so blind a sentence. But it is enough for men no deeper in Popery than you are, to know the names of some of the Fathers, but for their judgement concerning them, to take that up by tradition from their Superiors or Readers, who upon ignorance or malice speak what they list. You cite sometimes the Magdeburgenses. And cannot you in those Centuries of years wherein the old Doctors lived, find the Magdeburgenses citing some of the Fathers, who in all questioned points of religion speak for us & oppugn your Papistry. Neither can you find this in any other Protestant, that we want not the ancients to take our part? Hath Peter Martyr no such thing in all his works, nor Chemnitius, nor Calvin, or Bishop jewel whom anon you name, or that 
x D: Humfrey:  worthy man who wrote his life, or Bucer, or M. Nowell? Is S. Cyprian yours in the matter of the Primacy, when he doth not only call 
y Epistol: 3:  Cornelius the Roman Bishop by the appellation of brother, not of Lord nor superior, but in direct terms cutteth the cable whereunto the anchor of supremacy is tied. Thus he hath: 
z De simplicitat. praelatorum.  Although after his resurrection, he giveth equal power to all his Apostles, & saith, As my father sent me etc. yet that he might manifest an unity, he disposed by his own authority the original of unity beginning of one. That in sooth were the rest of the Apostles which Peter was, endued with the like fellowship both of honour & power: but the beginning cometh from an unity that the Church may be showed to be one. Yea doth your own Roman Bishop Gregory herein join with you? That I may not stand any longer on particulars, but refer questions to their places, where you give occasion to handle them, I say but this in brief, is there any ancient Father Greek or Latin, who ever taught as you teach concerning the admission 
Divinar: Instit. lib. 2: 19:  & adoration of images, which Lactantius so oppugneth, as the be saith, that 〈◊〉 there is no doubt but there is no religion, wheresoever is simulachrum animage, which is to be understood▪ if it be retained to a religious use. 
b In Epist: ad joan. Episcop: Hierosolomita●….  Epiphanius going through a Church where was a veil hanging which had in it the picture of Christ, or of some Saint, tore it as being in the church contrary to the Scriptures, and when he had done, of his own charge sent thither another veil. Nay 
c Lib: 7: Epist 109.  Gregory himself although he could like that images should be in churches, to be as books to the ignorant, yet he would not endure that they should be adored. For this point than I could wish you the after your presumptuous definition, as Claud: the Emperor of whom 
d De morte Claud●….  Seneca merrily could say, that he was such a judge as could determine a cause, hearing but one party speak, & sometimes neither, you would do that which it may be feared you have not done before, that is, fall to reading of the Fathers, & many times you shall meet with that which cannot choose but gall you, & drive you to Bellarmine's sophistications, not to yield to a truth, but to see how you can cavil against it. What you say here against Bishop jewel that reverend man, & one of the hartbreakers of your Popery, 
e Ration. 5  Campian had before you, where by D. Whitaker it received his answer. And before him, 
f Motiv. 14●…:  Bristol had it, who was also answered by D. Fulke: yet so oft as you still cite it, so oft must we refute it. Truth the it is that the excellent servant of God M. 
g Laur: Hum●…d. in vita jewel  jewel not impudently, but Christianly, & upon great deliberation & advice did challenge any English Papist to show out of the Fathers of the first six hundred years divers points of Popery, as their private Mass, or that the communion was administered but in one kind, or that public prayers were said in a language not understood, or that the Pope was called the universal Bishop, or the head of the church, or that men were taught this faith, that the body of Christ was contained in the Sacrament substantially, really, corporally, carnally, or that Christ's body was at once in a thousand places, or that there was elevation & adoration of the Eucharist, & divers such other matters, which the Bishop did constantly deny, not to be known or taught in those times of the first Church. The substance of this 
h An. 1560:  Sermon made at Paul's Cross did D. Humphrey rehearse, writing the life of the said M. jewel, and afterward interserting his own judgement concerning many matters in difference, he groweth to this head that the only exact way of reformation of abuses & of determination of truth, is the word of GOD; that it alone is to be made the judge. Upon which insisting, he inferreth that therefore Master jewel gave too much, and yielded to the Papists more than equity, and was too injurious to himself, when he took not the surer, easier & shorter course of trial by the Scriptures alone, but gave larger scope of expatiating into the Counsels & Fathers. But most absurdly is your Popish conclusion gathered out of this, that therefore D. Humphrey knew or confessed that the Fathers of the Primitive Church were against us and him. You should rather have inferred thus much, that D. Humphrey thought that M. jewel had a sure matter in hand, when needing to refer all but to the Scriptures, he appealed also to the Fathers; that both by the witness of God and man he might avouch his assertions. In case of trial for land, we know that authentical writings and evidences are the best and most absolute means of deciding right: but if he who oweth and possesseth the writings, knowing the integrity of his cause, shall not refuse also to have his quarrel tried by the testimonies of indifferent men in the country, he hath departed so much from his own right, and done more than he need to do. If then his friend should say, that therein he hath yielded to more than meet, and did himself a wrong by it, by yielding his adversary many exceptions, whereas he might have tied him only to one, should not a slander by make an absurd collection, if he should gather upon this, that the litigants friend saw well that the witness of the Country would go against him? And especially when he whom it most concerneth, shall by the testimony of those to whom he appealed, make good all his asseverations? This was the Bishop's case, and no otherwise then thus was it reported by the Venerable Doctor. And albeit this may appear to be thus to every one who will read the narration, yet because Bristol, Campian and you take it all one from another, and other may yet take it farther, & your people be still abused, as if so learned a man as D. Humphrey, had both disliked M. jewels words, and given sentence touching the Fathers against us; for the farther satisfaction of the Reader, I desire these things to be marked. First that Doctor Humphrey in that book concerning M. jewel, as also in his 
i second: pars jesuitis  other against Campian, doth frequently cite the old Fathers for us, in all questions of difference that occur, Ergo he doth not think that the Doctors are all on the Papists side, and not on the Protestants. Secondly that in'all his Lectures, Disputations and Sermons he was most copious in citing and alleging the ol●… Fathers, to confirm our doctrine and to enervate Papistry, as not only we may remember who often heard him, but diverse of our Fugitives now beyond the Seas, who were of his time in this University. Thirdly to this particular, that in the very 
k Fol. 124:  place where he speaketh of the Bishop's challenge, he putteth these words before; And here is necessarily to be repeated that Protestation or denunciation, which was heard out of this place of Paul's Cross, which our adversaries do calumniate to be vain and frivolow: which notwithstanding they will not deny to be true who are of the better sort of wit, and of more excellent learning. Can a man speak plainer than the Doctor doth here, justifying that to be true which the Bishop said, and calling the adversaries exception to the Challenge, a calumniation? Fourthly that in the 
l Fol. 212:  place where he saith that M. jewel yielded too much, when he went to farther trial than the Bible, he subjoineth this, Which he did not willingly, but yet he did it not besides the purpose, that he might s●…ay you with the testimony of your Fathers as with your own sword. He calleth the Fathers yours, not because he thought them so to be, but as Ironically, because you brag of them as if they were yours. Thus doth the vanity of this slanderous cavil appear to every one who will not wilfully close his eyes against truth: & then for all this forged objection, the Fathers shall as well be ours as yours.  T. HILL. 
ANdyet because they have found by experience, that to teach Doctrine contrary to the anciant Fathers, soundeth but badly in the people's ears, in their Sermons they gladly now and then allege the authority of some Doctor or Father, when they can by any means wring or wrest any p●…ece of a sentence so, as it may seem to make for them. And indeed he who allegeth the Doctors most, is most praised of the audience, as you well know, which is a pitiful thing in them and ridiculous in the Preacher, who cannot but know, (if he have read any of them himself) that the Fathers detest utterly that Doctrine which he wresteth them to confirm, and in the mean time the poor audience thinketh that they were of this new Religion, whose simplicity is therein most pitifully abused by the Preacher.  G. ABBOT. 
23 YOur hatred to the Gospel maketh you easily give sinister interpretations to our actions. We mention the Fathers in our Sermons, to show that our expositions of Scripture are not singular and 
m 2. Pet. 1. 20  private interpretations, but such as were received in the Primitive Church; & to convince the Antichristian enemy, who like jack Bragger boasteth of antiquity, when in comparison of God's book, his belief is nothing else but novelty. It is not because we would blind the eyes of the people, or stop their ears, since as you say to teach doctrine contrary to those Ancients soundeth ill: for if there be just cause, we plainly and evidently show where we descent from them. Which we do being warranted by the word of God, which 
n Galat: 1: 8  teacheth us that if an Angel come from heaven, and preach otherwise then the Apostles have preached, we should hold him accursed: And incited there unto by some of the Fathers themselves in open words, by other in their Orthodox meaning. For what Father would dare to think, that his speeches should overrule the Scripture? As for wring and wresting and straining, we detest it. God's truth needeth not to be upheld by untruths. We leave that to the masons of the Pope's part, who had need use such supporters to underproppe the rotten and daily falling ruins of their Antichristian kingdom. Now whereas you tell us that he is most praised of the Auditory, who most allegeth the Doctors, you had need to help yourself with more than one distinction. For among sober & wise hearers, it is well accepted when the Fathers are cited to good purpose & orderly: but some other there be who think themselves no mean folks, which on a humorousnesse and because their Preachers are ignorant that way, & they, I mean those ignorant Pastors have taught them so, like not to hear them quoted in the Pulpit. Again the wisest congregation doth not approve of the preposterous using of them, as when they are cited frequently and yet only in Latin or Greek, and not Englished to the edification of the people, which Saint 
o 1. Cor. 14. 26.  Paul would ever have aimed at: Or when they are huddled one upon another's neck without cause; Or when they are multiplied rather for ambition, then upon desire of fruit or utility. You might have considered upon these things, but you with the Crocodile or Hyena fall rather to a counterfeit commiseration, that it is a pitiful thing, that the people should be made believe, that the Doctors were of the same opinion that we are in religion. You may do well to tax those men, who in their Sermons have abused or perverted the sentences of those grave and learned personages. Of the two you should rather pity your Papistical Congregations, which are little troubled with Scriptures or Doctors, but with such miracles and fabulous Legends, as your Friars do lay before them, and nothing else. So are they turned to puddle waters, in steed of the clear streaming fountain of the water of life. That our Preachers who have read any of the Fathers themselves, do know that they make against that which they preach, is an idle suspicious surmise of your own, and nothing else but a falling back by a Nugatio to that which you formerly have spoken. It is one of the highest breaches of conscience, for a man standing in the place of God to speak to the people, there to urge that which in his own heart he knoweth contrary to truth. This is enough for Bellarmine and such desperate wretches, who for a Cardinal's hat or some other expectation, have sold themselves and their souls to their LORD God the Pope, and his LORD God the Devil.  
24 I have all this time traced the steps of a bold and malicious adversary: but now I rather apply my pen to give satisfaction to the doubtful Reader concerning this main question. Our Popish writers speak in gross of the Fathers, but what themselves in special determine of them, they dare not open. So much pains therefore ●…s is expedient I purpose to take for them, First than I ask them, will they have us accept of all things, which these learned Doctors have taught? Grant this, and then many be the heresies which we must maintain. how many were there of them, which imagined that the godly after the resurrection should reign on the earth, and that but for the space of a thousand years, in all worldly felicity, which is the error of the Chiliasts or Millenary heretics? So dreamt Irenaeus, and is taxed for it by 
p Eccl. Hist. lib: 3: 33:  Eusebius. In this conceit also was Tertullian drenched as appeareth by his disputation against 
q Lib. 3.  Martion. With the same also was justinus Martyr tainted, as is evident by his Dialogue with Tryphon the jewe. Yea this opinion descended so low, that Lactantius who lived in the days of Constantine the Great, was not 
r Divin: justit: l. 7: 14●…  free from it. Doth not Eusebius 
s Eccl. Hist: lib: 6. 11.  note it concerning Clemens Alexandrinus, that he doth much comment upon Apocryphal matters, as if they were Scripture? How many were the heresies of Tertullian, while in all his later works, he raveth upon the Paraclete of Montanus, to the which fantastical opinion he was most grossly wedded? One while he thinketh that 
s Tertul. de Monogamia.  second marriages are altogether unlawful in the Church. Another while he frameth a 
t De ●…uga in persecutione.  book, that it is not lawful for any Christian to fly at all in the heat of persecution. Saint 
u Epist 157:  Austen observeth truly of him, that he contended that the souls of men were not spirits but bodies, & that they have their original of bodily seeds. Yea so far he went awry, that 
u Contr. Helvidium.  Hierome saith of him plainly, Of Tertullian I say nothing more, but that he was not a man of the Church. With him I join Origene, who continually almost in his commentaries on the old Testament, doth not only by Allegories pervert the literal sense of the stories, but sometimes in express terms saith, that 
x In Exod. Hom. 1: 2 6:  in the literal meaning the narration cannot be true, which is an exceeding injury to the Spirit of God. Another while he will have the 
y De Principij. l. 3. 6.  Devil & all the Reprobates, albeit they suffer hell torments for a space, yet at the last to be saved, which doctrine 
z In ●…on. 3  Hierome doth most justly perstringe; howsoever in another treatise he give him his due commendation for some matters, saying, 
a Libr: N●…min Hebraicor:  No man but he who is ignorant doth deny, that Origene after the Apostles was a master of the Church. But for that opinion 
b Lib 2: Ex pol. in 1: Regum.  Gregory did not suffer him to go without his censure. Origene saith he, while he would see without the word of the Lord, the Lord appearing, he saw the cloud inordinately, because he was afraid at the appearing of the fire. For while denying the very lest justice of God, he did proclaim his clemency to be more than needed, he affirmed that he would not only spare condemned men, but also one day he would deliver the reprobate Angels from everlasting punishment. Another of 
c Comment: super lohannem:  origen's fancies was that Christ did die not to redeem men only but the stars of heaven. He who would see more of his errors may read 
d In Ancorat●…  Epiphanius, where he passeth not without his tax: but especially let him look 
e Lib: 1:  Theophilus Alexandrinus, where his heresies are cited out of his own works, & there he hath the severest sentence that may be pronounced upon him, which is only in God's hand to give. Caesarius the brother of Gregory Nazianzen hath little better opinion of him, when he first termeth him 
f Diolog. 3:  a vain trifler, but afterward impious and an idle talker. Briefly the famous sentence of 
g Contr. Haeres. cap: 23. & 24:  Vincentius Lytinensis concerning him & Tertullian biteth deep, as the Reader may see if he please to look into that Author.  
25 I come now to some other of these worthy men, but yet still men, and therefore may trip in their paths. Cyprian was a good Bishop, and a Martyr for the truth of CHRIST: yet 
h Concil: Carthag: in Cypriā●… Euseb: Eccle: Hist lib 7●…3:  he and divers African Bishops swerved from the truth, in the question of rebaptizing those who were baptised by Heretics. Of him Saint Augustine writeth thus, 
i Lib: 1: de Baptism. 〈◊〉 contra Donatistas'.  Uuhereas' that holy man Cyprian thinking otherwise of Baptism than the matter was (which afterward was handled and by most diligent consideration established) did continue in the Catholic Unity, it was both recompensed by the plentifulness of his charity, and was purged by: be cutting book of his suffering. What a strange imagination was that of 
k Lib: 10: de Trinitat.  Hilary, when he supposed that all the hurts and wounds, did no more touch or affect Christ on the Cross or elsewhere, them blows do the air or the water, or pricking the fire. He thought that there was a violence offered on the adversaries part, but no smart or pain of Christ's part. This strange supposal doth 
l Part: 3: quaest: 15: art. 5:  Thomas Aquinas labour to excuse in Hilary; but the blemish is so plain, as that by no means it can be covered. What Lactantius thought of the holy Ghost I had leifer set down in Hieromes words then in mine own. 
m Epist: 65●…  Lactantius in his books, but especially in his Epistles ad Demetrianum, doth altogether deny the substance of the holy Ghost, and by a lewishe error doth say, that it is either referred to the Father or to the Son, and that the sanctification of either person is intended under the name of it, that is, the holy Ghost. And had not Hierome himself those things in him, which cannot be defended? As his 
n Contr. lovinian.  immoderate preferring of single life before marriage, and his 
o Aug: Epist. 19:  pertinacious advouching that Saint Peter did not deserve to be reprehended by Saint Paul for 
p Gal: 2: 12:  halting with the jews. chrysostom besides his too forward testimonies for free-will, which Papists themselves dislike, is of mind & 
q Hom: 3: in Epist: ad Philip. & Hom 11. in 1. ad Cor.  teacheth it, that although men die in sin, be condemned and in hell, yet alms and ostrings & other helps of prayers done by them who are alive, may ease them and diminish some measure of their torments. Neither doth Saint Augustine want his imperfections, as when he determineth that all children dying without 
r Epist 28.  Baptism go to the flames of hell, which the Romanistes now will not admit: And when he liketh their judgement, who thought that upon hazard of their salvation the 
s Epist. 106. & 107.  Eucharist was to be administered to Infants. Many more such examples might be added of undoubted errors, in these learned men, wherein I trust no Papist is so absurd, as to prescribe unto us that we should join with them, lest of good Christians we should become lovers of errors, and in some things embracers of heresies. Besides these unquestionable oversightes, it falleth out oft, that the Fathers do some of them differ, nay are contrary or contradictory in judgement, some to other, and some to themselves. What shall we do in this case, or whom shall we follow, if the bare authority of these writers be of itself so strong, as they would make it? I will not instance in those heretical or erroneous opinions before named, where some of them affirm and some Orthodoxely deny, and a Christian man without the Scripture can give no decision whether is in the right: Cull out that only for example sake, where Hierome and Augustine do so differ, about Saint Peter and Saint Paul, whether of them did amiss; how should we know but by the Apostles writing? But to whether of them in this contradictory case should we give credit, if they were considered in themselves? Neither will I instance matters of mean respect, as how Saint 
s Quaest 123 sup Exod. & qu. 81. sup. Levity.  Austen crosseth himself in this question, whither the Cydaris were an attire for the head or no: Or whether Plato spoke personally with the Prophet jeremy in Egypt and learned of him many things, or no, to the which being the judgement of Ambrose in one 
t De doctr. Christ: lib: 2: 28  place he assenteth, but in 
u De civet: Dei l. 8: 11:  another he speaketh against it. But I rather refer men to their differences about the Canonical Scripture, which 
i Responsad Ration. 8.  before I have showed; and which is a matter of great moment. Or to those things which Saint Augustine himself 
u In libr: Retract:  retracted in his own works. Or to those different judgements in capital causes, which Bellarmine citeth in infinite places, and Sixtus 
x In Bibliothe casancta.  Senensis in very many. Or to such like as that of Gregory, where one while he saith that Cornelius by those 
y Homil: 9: in Ezechi.  works which went before his faith did merit that he afterward might have faith, and another 
z Homil: 19  while he expressly denieth that, and saith that by faith he came to his works. Now if there be such doubts as these in the Fathers, or other like, and we cannot be resolved out of these Doctors; or if question be of the verity of their doctrine, whither must we have recourse? The Papists will say to the Church of Rome, that is to themselves, but the Fathers will tell us to the word of God, as forthwith I shall show: which every way discovereth the base weakness of the uncatholike Church, since the Doctors are not the touchstone of truth, but are themselves to be tried by some thing else: they are not self-sufficient, but all their words are to be weighed in the balance of the Sanctuary, where if they bear weight, they are to be accepted, if they be found too light, they are to be rejected. Our ground then and foundation is not in these men, although never so worthy men, but the book of God must make the final and irrefragable decision.  
26 For the better establishing of this, let us hear the Fathers themselves speak. I put Saint Augustine in the foremost rank, as one who had most occasion to deal in this argument. In the controversy between him & Hierome, he is 
a Epist. 19:  pressed with the authority of other writers. He answereth, I do confess unto your charity, I have learned to give this reverence and honour to those only books of Scriptures which are called Canonical, that I do most firmly believe, that no author of them did err in writing any thing. To other than he taketh exception. He speaketh elsewhere plainer: 
b Epist. 48.  The Fathers are not so read, as if a testimony might be so drawn out of them, that it were not lawful to think contrariwise, if they have otherwise suppo●…ed then the truth did require. And again, 
c Epist. 113.  I have put the opinions of so great men etc. not that I do think them to be followed as the Canonical Scripture. And when he was hard pressed in the Controversy of Baptism with the authority of Cyprian, he answereth Cresconius, 
d Contr. Crescen. Grammatic: lib: 2●….  I esteem the letters of Cyprian not as Canonical, but I consider them out of the Canonical, and look what agreeth in them to the authority of the Divine Scriptures, with praise to him I receive, what doth not agree, with his good leave I refuse. And afterward, Because that is not Canonical, which thou r●…est, with that liberty to which GOD hath called us, I do not receive that which savoured amiss of that man whose praise I cannot attain unto, to whose many letters I do not compare my writings, whose wit I lone, with whose speech I am delighted. whose charity I do admire, whose martyrdom I hold venerable. Can aught be delivered more significantly, and to our purpose then this is? And lest that any man should suspect that he was more strictly laced toward other men, than he would have other toward him, he frequently writeth as modestly of himself, as he doth wisely of those who went before him. As to 
e Epistol: 7:  Marcellinus, I therefore do confess myself to be of the number of them, when in profiting do write, and in writing do profit. Whereupon if any thing be set down by me, either unwarily or unlearnedly, which not only by other men who can see that, may be worthily reprehended, but also of myself, because even I at least afterwards ought to see it, if I do profit, it is neither to be wondered at, nor to be grieved at, but rather it is to be pardonned, and to be rejoiced at, not because there hath been an error, but because it hath been disliked. For that man doth too perversely love himself, who will have other men also to err, that his error may lie hid. And to Fortunatianus, 
f Epist. 111.  Neither are we to account the disputations, of any men, though Catholics and commendable persons, as the Canonical Scriptures: that saving the honour which is due unto those men, it is not lawful for us to dislike and reict some thing in their writings, if perhaps we shall find that they have otherwise thought, than that truth hath, which by the help of God, hath either been understood by others, or by us. Such a one am I in the writings of other men's & such would I have the understanders of mine to be. And handling the high mysteries of the Trinity, he saith, 
g De Trinit at: l. 1. 3:  Whosoever readeth these things, where he is alike sure, let him go on with me, where alike he doubteth let him seek with me, where he knoweth his error let him return to me, where he spieth mine, let him recall me. And in the same book elsewhere, 
h Lib. 〈◊〉. in p●…aefation:  Let the one not love me more than the Catholic faith, let the other not love himself more than the Catholic truth, As I say to the one, do not attend on my writings as on the Canonical Scriptures etc. This is the mind of Saint Augustine.  
27 Neither doth this renowned servant of God herein go alone, but he hath sufficient of others, who in this be half do second him. The great Dionysius, not the supposed Areopagite, but another worthy man since his time, did long ago inform us in this doubt: Eusebius bringeth him in speaking thus: 
i Eccles. Hist l 7: 19:  I do very much reverence Nepos, yet truth is the nearest friend of all, and ought deservedly to be preferred before all. And if any thing be rightly spoken, that is to be commended without envy, but if any thing be committed to writing not sincerely and sound, this with diligence is to be sought out, & to be reproved. To this effect also are the words of S, Hierome: I 
k Epist: 62:  do know that I myself do esteem of the Apostles in one sort, and of other writers in another sort: that the first do always speak the truth, and the latter as men do in some things err. Add to these that of Theodoret, who saith that, 
l Dialog. 3.  the Fathers of the Church by a vehe●…ent contention against their adversaries do many times exceed measure. Thus they use to do who plant trees. For when they see a tree grown crooked, they do not only set him up upright, but they do bend him to the other side, that by too much inclining to the contrary part, they may cause it to be strait. This is the judgement of the ancient writers themselves, concerning the works of one another, that they go too far, that they do & may err, that they are not to be joined in equal estimation with the Canonical Scriptures: And therefore what reason have we not to use our Christian liberty in examinig of them by the rule of truth, so to embrace that which is right, and to repudiate that which is of another nature? I do marvel then what advantage our Papists do think they can get, by craking upon the names of these, since their authority even in their own judgement is not absolute and Dictatourlike, but with a reference, and merely dependent upon a higher commander: In which case if they stoop to the sceptre of the LORD, we willingly and readily admit of them with due honour and reverence; otherwise we leave them. But the trier of them we hold to be the Canonical Scripture of the old and new Testament.  
28 On the other side how the Synagogue of Rome (speak they of these Doctors never so fair) do deal with them, it is good that every weak Christian should know. For howsoever they in their words pretend great honour to them. yet in truth they are the only men in the world, who offer notorious wrong to them. For first, how are they debased, when such lights of the Eastern and Western Church, men so fraughted with knowledge, and adorned with eloquence, shall not only be set in comparison with, but set after the Pope's barbarous champion Thomas of Aquine? Noble Hierome thou hast well studied, and renowned Augustine thou hast well laboured, to come to such a preferment in thine old age. For one of the Pope's 
Aug: Hunnaeus in praefat, Summm. Aquinat. ad, Pium 5. Pontific.  Innocents', did so much esteem the learning of Aquinas, that he doubted not to give unto him the first place after the Canonical Scripture. Which albeit originally it be but the censure of one man, yet know that he was Bishop of Rome, and when it is prefixed before the Sum of Aquinas, & dedicated to another Pope, it is intended to be of credit, and that more must be of that mind if they themselves wil And 
l Icon. & vite Papar. in Pio: 5:  since that time Pius the 5. hath placed the same Aquinas fift among the Doctou●… of the Church, to the great prejudice and dishonour of all the rest. Secondly what dishonour do they, to the renowned company of those admirable men, when they rank with them, and as it were thrust upon them, base companions, a bastardly brood, which have no learning, judgement or any other eminente part to commend them? Of their counterfeit Dionysius Areopagite I have spoken before. But Master Harding writing against Bishop lewel citeth in his greatest matters, 
n L. Humphrey. in vita luelli.  Amphilochius, Abdias, Leontius, Martialis Simon Metaphrastes, Hippolytus, Vincentius, Clemens, Cletus, Anacletus, counterfeit Athanasius and Basile, and other authors of Decretal Epistles in steed of true Fathers. And Bellarmine in his disputes being many times near driven, is glad to fly to such, as for a stake to a hedge. This is to extenuate the reputation of those great stars, and to make them to be meanly thought of, because those with whomethey are sorted, deserve no better. It is the disgrace of the best, when those of worst quality are coupled with them as their fellows. In the time of 
o Bodin: de Rep: l: 5: 4:  Pope julius the third the Cardinals of Rome knew this; when seeing the Pope to create Montanus' Cardinal, one whom for his pleasure's sake he had taken out of a most beggarly estate, & brought him up at home, they joined in a request and motion in behalf of the College of Cardinals, that he would not suffer that honourable degree to be stained by the presence of so contemptible a man, who had neither wealth, nor wisdom, nor virtue, nor parentage, nor learning, nor any thing to commend him. Indeed the Pope there had them at the advantage, for he was able to beat them with their own rod, & therefore replied upon them, What virtues I pray you, what learning, what parentage, what good qualities was I famous for, when you made me Pope? His personal reproof to them was just; otherwise their suit had been reasonable: for such a consort could no way honest their College; as these silly Popish authors do no way add estimation, but manifold dis-reputation to the Fathers. Thirdly how shamefully did the predecessors of these late Papists, in the time of dark ignorance foist in parts of tracts, and whole treatises into the volumes of the Fathers, so labouring that new writings might run currant for old, upstarts for natural, & very draff & chaff for good corn. There is seant any one of the Fathers which hath escaped free herein, not Cyprian, not Austen, not Hierome, out of whose works many books & pieces may be pulled, which for the matter or style do no more refemble those authors, than Aesop's Ass did a Lion, when he had got that Royal beasts skin on his back. The Popish Censurers in their editions do confess so much, but Erasmus a man who had the gift of 
p 1: Cor: 12: 10.  discerning of spirits did go beyond them all, and in his prefaces, arguments, or Censures upon books, doth yield the reasons of his opinion. It is incredible to think how absurd things are fathered on these Doctors, as by name that Adfratres in eremo before said to be entitled to Saint Austen, where the absurd fellow sometimes plainly taketh upon him the name of Austen Bishop of Hippon, but to procure admiration saith 
q Serm: 37.  that he traveiled into Aethiopia, & saw there men without heads, with their eyes set in their breast, and others he beheld which had only one eye in the middle of their forehead. I wish that either Sir john 
r M Hac●…its ving.  Maundevile had been with him, or he with Sir john Maundevile. This trick of juggling in such tracts, is a dangerous matter to any who will rest himself too far upon the Father's writings: and our Popish people have in their fraud great advantage, when out of such as they are, they will confirm their Paradoxes. But there is another point more tickle than this, when their Monks and Cloister men would intersert into the true and proper works of the best writers, whole leaves, or pages or sentences, more or less to serve for their purpose. Erasmus who laboured exceedingly in repairing and restoring antiquity, & to whose pains all learned men do owe much, complaineth bitterly of this; as in one of his 
s Lib: de spirit. sanct.  prefaces to a book of S. Basile, he with grief saith, that the same measure was afforded to Basile, which he had otherwise experimented in Athanasius, chrysostom, Hierome, and that was, that in the middle of treatises, many things were stuffed and forced in by other, in the name of the Fathers. Hence the Romish generation might build even what pleased themselves. But besides all this, as in other arts so in Divinity & in the writings of the Doctors, by the ignorance of the Novices, in Monasteries set to write out Copies of books, yea of their 
s Vives de canis corrupr: art: lib: 1.  Nuns so employed, divers arguments of books were put into the books themselves, and Annotations in the Marge ●…t were erepte into the text. Concerning this depravation of learned men's works in all kinds. Lodovicus Vives hath written divers books entitled, Of the causes how or why the arts were corrupted, and hath there many observations and complaints, that some ignorantly, some maliciously, all audaciously did such things. I think it not amisle to cite one sentence of his, which showeth how divers counterfeit books had the names of noble Authors put upon them. Among such as did write out volumes, 
t Libr: 1:  there were some who to procure authority to a book, did in writing put to it the name of some great author: other, that when in times past many books were put out without names, being moved with some very light conjecture, did adjudge it to one or to another: other if they did not know the name of the title, did not doubt to change it, and to transfer it to whom they thought good: there were such as written out books, who look what name came first in their mind, that they did set before for the title. There be many examples of all these things, in those authors whom even now I named, Aristotle, Plato, Origen, Cyprian, Hierome, Augustine, Boetius, Cicero, Seneca, and all these have been received without difference, and no less authority and credit given to them, then to those which were true and natural. This is a noble testimony of a very learned man, who spent much traveile purposely in this argument, and showeth by what sinister means such came to be reputed Fathers, who were more fit to be taken for children.  
29 Fourthly I name that which is most horrible of all other, even a manifest evidence of a desperate cause, and that which is rotten at the root. Wherein the impudence and shameless forehead of the whore of Babylon and her Peers, can never sufficiently be exclaimed upon, albeit heaven and earth, and all the creatures therein be called to witness. For hath this Antichristian brood so long fled from the Scriptures to the Fathers, and have they and do they so crack of these every where, and are they now forced to raze them, and pair them, and blur them, else they cannot hold up their irreligion? This is the case of which I desire all my weak and abused countrymen to take notice. In the Conventicle of Trent there were certain 
u Index Expurgar. Belgic. in Regul. Concil: Tridentini.  rules made, which openly did pretend the purging and cleansing of books from heretical matters, but secretly intend more, even to raze out what they think fit out of old or new, as their practice in this behalf doth testify, which is warranted by the covert orders there concluded. For this business, in divers places of the Papacy, were secretly appointed some of their own stamp, men consciencelesse and fit for any vile act, to revise as well the Fathers, as later books of all sorts, and whatsoever made against Popery and could not handsomely be glossed, should upon the new printing of the books by Printers in Popish places, be cunningly altered or quite left out. This must be done, notwithstanding that all the copies even formerly printed by themselves, and many written once in their libraries, and as many in ours, did plainly show the contrary. Yea though marvelous store of copies, written hundreds of years before, when as neither Luther, nor Hus, nor Wiclefe were yet borne, did concur in that for which we plead. Heere-uppon closely was drawn first 
u An: 1571.  one Index Expurgatorius, by the warrant of Philippe the second King of Spain, and of the Duke of Alva Governor of the Low Countries for him. There in the kings letters patents prefixed before the book, charge is given that in every city where booksellers devil, there should be some Prelates appointed to supervise all noted books, and that 
x Diploma Regis Catholici Belgic.  they should have with them privately, and no other men knowing of it, one Index Expurgatorius, which they should neither communicate unto others, nor grant a copy of it to any man, but only shall most diligently take care of that, that they inquire upon, expunge, and restore the places before spoken of. According to this, were all the new printed books proceeded withal by them, and our men not knowing the mystery wondered at those things which were left out and altered, but could not guess at the true cause, till about fifteen 
y An: 1587.:  years after, Franciscus junius by God's special providence light upon one of them, and published it to the world. Suitable to this was there by the commandment of Pope 
z An. 1572.  Pius the 5. a Censure upon the Glosses of the Canon Law closely framed by Friar Thomas Manriq. Master of the holy and Apostolic Palace, and the same by the 
a An: 1580:  mandate of Pope Gregory the 13. was afterward reviewed by Sixtus Faber also Master of the same Palace Apostolic, and according thereunto were the Glosses of the Canon Law printed, all things being blotted out which made against the romish faith. This also was concealed, as the Index Expurgatorius had been before, till that 
b An: 1599:  lately Doctor john Pappus met with it, and published it to the view of all who will read it. I find also 
c F. Gregor. Capuch: in libris Corrig: fol: 166:  mention of a Censure concerning certain Authors, which was put out in Spain in the year 1562. but the book itself is not yet come (for aught that I know) to any of our hands. But after that, by the means of Gaspar Quiroga Cardinal and Archbishop of Toledo, being also chief Inquisitor in Spain, 
d An: 1584.: Madriti apud Alphons. Gomezium Regium Typograph.  there was printed another Index Librorum Expurgatorum, which was not without the advice of the high Sonate of the holy General Inquisition. This book also was unknown to any Protestant, until that her late majesties forces taking the town of 
e An. 1596:  Calez in Spain, there was one of these Indices found there, which being brought into England, was by a 
f M. Tho. james.  man careful to lay open such frauds, sent to the L. of Plessis into France, who keeping the original in his own Library, 
g An: 1601:  printed it at Saumure, and made it known to the body of Christendom. In the beginning of this edition it is showed, that they thrust out divers things of their own writers, as out of the works of Osorius, Ferus, a book called 
h Edit: Venetijs An: 1576.  Ordo Baptizandi cum modo visitandi. Yea out of the Gloss on Epiphanius, and from the Tables in the ends of the works of chrysostom, Hilary, Hierome, Cyril of Alexandria, when notwithstanding the matters to be put out and razed, are either literally or in sense apparently, and not to be spoken against, in the Text of those Fathers. Nay in the Index of the Bibles put out by Robert Stephanus, these propositions must be blotted out as suspect, 
i Ioh: 11. 26:  He who believeth in CHRIST shall not die everlastingly. 
k Act. 15. 9  By faith the hearts are purified, 
l Gal. 2. 16:  UUee are justified by faith in Christ, Christ is 
m 1. Con 1: 30.  our righteousness, No 
n Ps: 143. 2:  man is righteous before God, 
o 1: Cor: 7●… 2.  Every man may have his wife, whereas yet notwithstanding they are the very word of GOD, as may be seen in the places quoted.  
30. Last of all, (for aught that is yet come to our knowledge) there was a treatise 
p Venetijs An: 1597: apud lo: Baptistam, & lo: Bernardum Sessam.  Concerning books to be corrected, put out by F●…ter Gregory a Capuchin Neopolitan intituling himself Purger of the books at Naples. This fellow doth frequently make mention of the Censure put out in Spain Anno 1562. & 1584. & is much more peremptory than it, or any other whom I have seen. I will briefly lay down some things that I find in him. Speaking then of 
q Litera. F. fol. 153:  Francis Petrarcha, thus he saith, Let there be put out the four expositions with the text, to wit, Dell' impia Babilonia, 〈◊〉 Avara Babilonia, Fontana de dolori, fiamma del Cielo, which matters how near they touch Rome, every one acquainted with Petrarch's works do well know. Mentioning the Bibles of the 
r Fol. 166.  Vulgar edition, thus he speaketh, Bibles which are defective in the Text, according to the Tridentine Council, Sess. 4. in the Decree de usu sa●…r. libr. I do ever burn. And I make an experiment in the 3. Chapter of Genesis, where I find, In the sweat of thy face thou shall eat bread, until thou return unto the earth, & he doth not say, In the sweat of thy face thou shalt eat thy bread, until etc. I without remission as a text suspect, do not pass to it, censuring it; but setting it on fire. Now if it be a defect to put it bread and not thy bread, it is such a defect as is in the Hebrew, & our books read it commonly in Latin & other languages without thy, & so do most of the Vulgar Popish editions for aught that I can find. And if it be a fault to put thy to the text, it should rather be chastised for a superfluity then for a defect. Talking of his Correction of a book of jacobus Spieglius, he hath these words, 
s Fol. 199 & Idem fere. fol. 217:  Which correction I do put, not that it is to be accounted for a perfect correction, that it should need no farther amending: but only satisfying my duty, that it may be known that it is to be corrected, & that at least it should be corrected as followeth, till there come a better correction put out with greater consideration: since I find by experience that too day I see a book or aleafe, & by various businesses of my mind I do not judge him to be worthy greater correction, & on the morrow upon a new consideration, I do judge him to be worthy of correction. And therefore I do notify thus much that as well the book following as these before are worthy of correction: & if they be corrected after the manner mentioned, easily according to the Trent Index, there may by the most Reverend Bishops leave be given to read them, till some farther correction do appear. This is a good plain fellow, & therefore telleth us that once amending of a book will not suffice, but they will to it again and again. 
s Fol: 215:  Elsewhere he saith that among them the Revisers, there is a note of three hundred & fifty Authors which are suspected, & are to be over-vewed. 
t Fol: 218:  Finally he deeply findeth fault with the Index Librorum Expurgandorum (for so he calleth it) printed at Madrill by Alphonsus Gomezius in the year 1584. saying that it containeth things erroneous & heretical, as by name, that it doth not sufficiently expunge & purge the works of Carolus Molineus, whom he termeth an heretic of the first or highest form. Thus we may justly fear that there will never be an end of their clipping & curtolling, when themselves cannot agree what is to be pulled out, but when they have fleeced and plumed the works of any the most learned man, either of our side or of their own, some other of these purgers may & must, again and again fall upon the same.  
31 But if here it be replied as some Papists amongst us do already mutter, & as it is probable that Gretzerus will urge more at large, if he put forth a defence of the Indices Expurgatorij, as I hear that he intendeth, That this clipping and blotting out, is not in the texts of the Fathers, but only in Prefaces, Marginal notes, Collections out of them, or observations upon them, or else if it be very texts, it is but out of the works of later writers, I answer that these purge and razings towards the Fathers themselves indeed do not so directly appear as the other, for in this they use a singular cunning, obliquely to do what they possibly may. But I desire to be informed to what end these things do bend. First they confess in their 〈◊〉 Belg●…ke Index Expurgatorius thus much concerning the old writers, In other ancient 
In Beitramo.  Catholics meaning the Fathers, we bear many errors, & extenuate them, excuse them, excogitating some devise we many times deny them, and do feign unto them a convenient sense, while they are opposed in disputations, or inconflictes with the adversaries. Hear is a distorting and turning away of the sense of the Fathers, even against their own consciences. Secondly I find it reported by 
u Praefat. ad Lector. in Belg. Indic. Ex. purge:  junius, as a matter which himself saw, that now about forty years since, the works of S. Ambrose being printed at Lions by Frelonius, there came in two Franciscanes which razed out much of divers printed sheets, which enforced Frelonius to new print the same again, not after the old Copies, but as the Friars would have them, to the great charge and trouble of the Printer, as Ludovicus Savarius the corrector of the press did complain, professing that he would buy any copy of Ambrose rather than that. It were a good labour for some man who had leisure, to confer the elder books with that edition, & to notify the differences to the world. Thirdly I hold it the same fraud to add which it is to diminish, neither is there any sentence but by interlacing words enough, a cunning workman may turn it clean contrary to the sense of the Author himself: And this may be as good an Index Correctorius or Additorius as the other Expurgatorius. Pamelius a Canon of Bruges taketh on him to revise S. Cyprian, & finding that pregnant place, before by me mentioned, 
x De unitate Ecclesiae Alias de simplicitate praelatorum:  The rest of the Apostles were the same which Peter was, endued with like fellowship both of honour and of power, & other things both before and after it to that purpose, he foisteth into the middle of sentences, for super unum aedificat Ecclesiam, upon one he buildeth the Church, thus much, super illum unum aedificat Ecclesiam suam, & illi Pascendas mandat oves suas: he buildeth his Church upon that one meaning Peter & committeth his sheep to him to be fed. And again unam cathedram constituit, he erected one chair, And afterward Qui cathedram Petri super quam funda est Ecclesia deserit, he who for saketh the chair of Peter upon which the Church is founded, doth he hope that he is in the Church? 
y Observat. in Pamelij Annotat.  Simon Goulartius who hath displayed the wicked falsehood of this forger, besides other evidences against this villainy, doth cite the words of Gratian out of the new edition of Gregory's Decree, which bringeth in the place of Cyprian as we & all other (before Pamelius) did read it. But a 
z Th' Bilsonus Epis cop. Winton. lib. 1. contra Pontificios.  learned man of our Church handling that last place, he who far saketh the chair of Peter upon which the Church is built, doth show that this addition is contrary to all the printed Copies which were before, as by name of Alopecius at Coleine, Hervagius at Basile, Langelier at Paris, Crinitus at Antwerp, Griphius at Lions, Manutius at Rome. Yea that besides Erasmus divers Papists as Rembolius, Canchius, Costerius, Gravius, Manutius, Morelius, had set forth Cyprian, searching for written copies of the best both far and near, & yet no man of all these, in all their editions thinking of any such matter. Lastly that 
a In indiculo c●…um excusor: & manuscr. in initio Cypr.  Pamelius himself saying that he had the help of eight more manuscript copies besides printed ones, could gather no such thing in any of all them, but only out of one Cambron copy, which must check all the books of Christendom. Which showeth that doubtless this Cambron brood was forged in former time by some one, who was desirous to magnify the Primacy of the Pope. Fourthly our makers of the Indices do go very near the Fathers, when they blot out of the Tables of their books those things which were in the Authors themselves, either word for word or in apparent meaning as before I have manifested. Fifthly it is not to be doubted, but that as there be many things more altered in Cyprian by Pamelius, which Goulartius hath refuted, and may be read by any man that will, And many matters razed in Ambrose, so if any man had leisure to confer them, he should find the like done in chrysostom and other of the Fathers (as 
b Vide Th. Bilson. lib. 4  Basile is notably forged to make for Images) some things being added, some diminished, other changed, the trial whereof it were good some of our men did undertake in the Gregory lately put out at Rome, or some other such book. Sixthly who knoweth whether there be any such Index gathered already, or in gathering, for the writings of all the Fathers, by the which the new editions must be trimmed. We see that daily they add their other Indices, therefore they may add one of this nature also; And long it was before those could be found, which now are discovered, and so the times of the descrying of this may not be yet come. Or who knoweth whether they who began with the marginal notes, Contents, Arguments, Tables and other Observations upon the Doctors, & therein did make trial by this gentle sounding at first, how well they could carry it, or how the world would take it, now grow resolute to proceed farther. Since they are over shoes, best plunge higher even over the shoulders: they see their good will is known, and therefore best now be impudent, the ice is broken in Ambrose & Cyprian, & they are no better than their fellows, who therefore worthily shall all be served with the same sauce. Seventhly, which is not lest to be observed, and sitteth best with my former conjectures, a late countryman of ours from Rome hath given some pretty light to this matter: I mean the Author of the 
c The warnwoord to S F●…Ha. stings wast-word.  Warnewoord. Whether I should say this to be Father Parsons, or Father Warford, I know not well: since Warford as I am certainly informed, hath perpetually free access to the others study, & digesteth that matter which Parsons is not at leisure to put into form, & sometimes putting Epistles & Prefaces to the works of the elder Fox, they two play handy-dandy so each with other, that they think by a jesuitish conveyance, they jointly or severally according to the conveniency of their then present purposes may affirm or deny any book to be or not be the work of Father Parsons. But whether soever of the two it be, he being charged by his adversary with the clipping of the Father's according to the rules of the Index Expurgatorius, laboureth to avoid from his side the imputation of those frauds. And for that purpose 
d Encount. 2: cap 9:  citeth divers rules prefixed by the Council of Trent, before the Index, all which rules do touch the works of later writers; but touching those which are ancient, he saith that thus they decree, In libris autem Catholicorum veterum, nihil mutari fa●… sit nisi ubi aut fraud haereticorum, aut typographi incuria manifestus error irrepserit. Which he Englisheth thus, It may not be lawful (for them that correct books) to change any thing at all in the books of the ancient Catholics, except where any manifest error should appear to have crept in, either by the fraud of heretics, or negligence of the Printer. Hear then are two cases, in which even the works of the old Fathers may be altered: And according to this he affirmeth of the Spanish Index Expurgatorius: that it is most certain that in all they put out of any author before our age, they follow one of two reasons before mentioned, to wit, that either they find it thrust in by heretics, or by error of the Printer, & that other more ancient & corrected copies had it not. Now under this shameless colour, they in their impudence may do what they list: for since Papists and Popish Correctors must be the judges, there shall be nothing which crosseth their Antichristian doctrine, but it by and by shall be said (even contrary to all antiquity) to be thrust in by heretics. And what conscience they make in practising their own rule, and keeping themselves within compass thereof, may be seen by that of Cyprian so handled by Pamelius as is before mentioned, where it cannot be denied but that they have altered the words from those which formerly were, And shall it now be said to be the Printers fault, that the words are as we read them. Why their own Prints, & all the old written copies have them so. Or shall it be said to be foisted in by heretics, when so many & so great Papists as Costerius, Manutius, Morelius and the other above named were, yea Gratian himself doth put it as we do? The truth than is, they will put in & put out, add, diminish, chop, change & alter what they list, & if any show can that way be made it shall be pretended to be the error of the Printer, or the falsehood of an Heretic: but if there be not so much as any colour for that pretence, yet if it be for their purpose, it shall be done, with hope that it shall not be espied, or that some secret probable reason shall be imagined wherefore justly they might do so. In which respect I may say, that the rule is wicked & the practice is worse, the one sl●…y permitteth falsehood, the other more audaciously doth execute it, and so even the works of the most Ancient are daily depraved by this sinful and deceitful romish brood. So that if ever there were a fraudulent and false generation of vipers on the earth; if men that have sold themselves to falsehood; if such as to serve the turn of their un-holy Father, care not what they do which may carry any pretence, it is this ungracious and ungodly company. The Lord discover their wickedness to the simple people, that every one may see and detest their damnable abuses. By these plain and evident matters, it may appear whether the Romanists or we do truly make more reckoning of the Fathers, since we yield them so much authority as belongeth to ancient, godly, and learned men, noble lamps in the Primitive Church, and great illustratours of the truth; they in substance overthrow all this; since we conserving them, they corrupt them, and either raze or add to, or pervert such sentences & sayings of the Doctors, as any way impeach their Romish Hierarchy whereby as usurpers they reign and domineer in the consciences of men and women.  
FINIS.   

To the Christian Reader.  
IT is now about one year and a half agone, that being entreated to answer this Pamphlet, which is more fraught with malice and bitter speaking then with truth or learning, in behalf of my poor countrymen abused by these Seminarians, I undertook it. And albeit for the whole year following I was sufficiently burdened with my ordinary business, & therein for the space of 9 or 10. weeks, sick and much weakened with a sharp and vehement fever: yet my desire to dispel these foggy mists of Popery was such, that within the compass of that time, I drew up the first Copy of an Answer to 16. of these Romish Reasons. Wherein rather desiring to give to the Reader a substantial than a flight satisfaction, I found by probable conjecture that even so much would grow to a reasonable volume: and the like course hereafter being taken with the latter part of D. hills book, there also might arise a work of like proportion. Upon this conceit I fell to revising & writing out to the Press that which formerly I had done, and therein by God's blessing I went so far, that now 6. months since I finished so much as here is published, some few interlacing only excepted. But when I should have proceeded to the perfecting up of the other six, a burden was by my honourable Patron imposed upon me, which together with my necessary employments at Winchester since that time, hath so put me from contemplation & kept me in continual action, that I scant have been able to sustain the weight of the daily contingent, & perpetually incumbent business, as is apparent to every man acquainted with mine estate. And in as much as yet for a time I'm not like to be freed from that charge, I am put to this difficulty, that either till I have more leisure; I must stay the Answer to these ten Chapters, being now completed by the Printer, or I must send these forth without their fellows, which is much contrary to my former purpose.  
Notwithstanding at the last I have resolved upon the latter of these two courses, being the rather inclined thereunto, because a learned man of the other Vnivetsity hath lately un-quartered the whole Quartron of D. hills Reasons, which peradventure in the judgement of many men may seem so good a satisfaction to that which the adversary hath objected, that my future labours in this Argument may very well be spared. For this cause my purpose is, (giving way to my present necessary services) to attend and expect for a while, the judgement and Censure of men wise and learned in our Church, and afterward to proceed or not proceed as occasion hall require. In the mean time I may say, that the mainest and principallest bulwarks of the Romish religion are these, which I have already assaulted: and it is as easy a matter to go forward with the rest, as it hath been to deal with these. Before persons which are wilfully ignorant, or perverse together with their learning, Popery may bear some show; but with such as have the skill to display it, or the grace to endure the dismasking of it, it is but a painted jesabel. Only herein the unsearchable judgement of God is to be admired, and his ways which are past finding out are to be wondered at, and that with amazement and astonishment, that there should yet be so many, who have eyes and see not, & ears and hear not, yea hearts and understand not, but still go forward to make up the number of the servitors of the beast, and of the train of Antichrist, who must have some to adore him till the dissolution of the world. But to the end that such among our Popish Countrymen as are ordained to salvation, may be plucked out of the fire, it behoveth us who are the Ministers of the Gospel to be diligent in preaching the Gospel to such as will hear, and in writing, for such as will read, that they may know and believe and be saved. For the better accomplishing whereof, and for the instruction of the ignorant, who most readily are seduced, I have taken these pains, endeavouring to deliver plainly and without obscurity that which I have to say: And for the cleared of all my Doctors both general and particular suggestions, tracing him step by step, & besides discussing the main drift of his Reasons, together with the validity of those Arguments, which others for the strengthening of the Roman perfidiousness, do or may rest thereupon. And yet in fitting myself to the capacity of the unlearned, I have not been altogether forgetful to give some contentment to men of more knowledge, wherein how far I have gone, it is not for me, but for others to judge.  
But whereas I have once made mention, of the expelling of the jesuits out of France, and the sharp Edict which was there against them; and now the report is strong, that upon some conditions they are restored thither again, (to the truth whereof in particular, I must ingenuously confess, that I cannot yet attain) the difference of time being weighed will easily answer for that matter, it being certainly heretofore one way, and now peradventure another. In respect whereof it is not amiss to know, that as it was longer agone that the Copy written for the Press was finished, so it is five months since that the Printer began with this book, howsoever sometimes this work hath been interrupted, one while with the danger of the Pestilence, which of late hath been so generally spread, & another while with the publishing of diverse other linal tracts, which the present occasion did offer. And this also may serve for Answer to another point, wherein my charity presumed more quietness in some men amongst us, them themselves are willing to yield correspondence unto. Nevertheless I trust that this is but a fit, & that time and experience will give rest to the most unquiet and restless soirits.  
Lastly I earnestly entreat all Romishly affected English men & women, that they be not so ready to hearken to jesuits & Seminary men, as heretofore they have been, & to follow their lures either in spiritual or temporal matters. What they can say for their Idolatry & superstition is long since known, neither have they yet brought aught of moment, but hath received answer. And for their other behaviour, whither it be commendable & Christian, or no, let their own books between the united & disunited Priests show, wherein of late so copiously & so lively they have deciphered each other. But if this will not serve the turn, let the practices of two Priests lately displayed & confested by themselves at Winchester, make all men take heed of them. It is hard to say whether their attempts were more traitorous against their Sovereign, or treacherous against their friends & men of their own Religion. I take no pleasure to speak ill of those which are dead, & whose bodies have endured the stroke of justice according to their deserts. But since these things were not done in a corner, but as matters exemplary to all the land, & they can no way be concealed, let. me make the use of them, for which ●…od ordained them, that is to warn other men of that which was disclosed there. Under a colour of doing service to our most gracious Sovereign, Watson drew on his friends to horrible attempts of treason against their Lord & King. Some of them telleth, that his Maty, must be assisted against the Puritans, some other, that it must be against the lesuits: when indeed it was nothing else, but to set the whole kingdom into combustion, to the alteration of the state & the effusion of much blood, that himself (a base & mean companion) might be possessed with the greatest office of England, & other his complices with the next. It was no marvel that with shame & confusion of face he did hang down his head, when his own followers too propense before to sedition & tumults; did personally but most deservedly reproach him for so entrapping them. Now how were Papists in that action lead blindfold, when leaving their own vocations, their houses, wives & children, they could be persuaded to dance after the pipe of Priests putting them into facts of so high●… nature, & that in such troops they would adventure upon them? I say in such t●…oupes, because the two Priests being returned from those countries where their acquaintance lay, made it known to a special person of the conspiracy, that they had 500 men ready to act that which they had formerly plotted, and instantly moved him, that it might expeditely be done. And that this was not altogether unlikely, is plain by the open speech of Clerk at the bar, who professed that he could bring two hundred men, viz. to act such their pretended devises for their Catholic cause: & yet Clarke was the less active Priest of the two If these fellows in a matter of that high quality spoke false (which some will imagine) what trust may their favourites give them, in other their relations? If they spoke true, how fearful is the case of such as listen unto them, who so soon, & under such fair colours may be circumvented? But how merciful in the mean time, is the proceeding of his blessed Majesty, who questioneth not with severity of justice all those who were entangled in some circumstances of that attempt (it being no hard matter to have them discovered) but affordeth much more clemency than other Princes in like cases have done. Let them magnify the mercy of the Lord, and his Anointed, and let them think and speak honourably of the jenity of the State, which rather spareth ' men apparently ill deserving then questioneth any who are tolerably innocent. And for the restlet them seriously take heed of such as have been nouzeled under Cardinal Allen, Persons, Barret, Worthington and their adherents, lest they temporally bring ruin on their houses and bodies, and eternally on their souls. God will not evermore bear those, who shut their eyes and stop their ears against the truth. The Lord direct us in his own ways, & call home such as wilfully or by ignorance have gone astray, that at length they may be reduced to the sheepfold of Christ jesus, to whom with his Father, and their blessed spirit be praise for evermore,  
Amen.