An answer to MaSTER CARTWRIGHT HIS LETTER FOR JOINING with the English Churches: whereunto the true copy of his said letter is annexed.  Ye are deceived not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. Matth. 22. 29. Search the Scriptures: for in them ye think to have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me. john 5. 39 Let every one that calleth on the Name of Christ depart from iniquity. 2 Tim. 2. 19 And these things that I say unto you, I say unto all men: watch. Mark 13. 37. 
Imprinted at LONDON.   

TO THE CHRISTIAN READER, grace. AND PEACE from God the Father, and from the Lord jesus Christ etc.  
dearly beloved in the truth, you have in this book an answer to an answer written unto Master Harrison at Middleborough by Master Cartwright upon occasion of controversy between them concerning the true spouse of Christ or his ordinary visible Churches in England, And it is thought good to put this answer before the said answer of Master Cartwright. And although the godlywise, and such as have only the glory of God before their eyes and his pure Religion and service together with the salvation of their brethren, will easily perceive the reasons, and causes: yet lest any might take offence in this offence in this behalf, it is though meet to show some. The first reason therefore is this. Our corrupt nature is more prone and ready to embrace the error of man then the truth of God Another cause was for that our untowardenesse is so great, that if an untruth be once received, it worketh such a prejudice in the heads and minds of men, that they will hear neither God his word, neither reason or argument to the contrary be it never so good and effectual. A third cause moved to place this answer first, for that it should be an occasion unto the Reader, to use more diligent conferring of this answer with the other, for the better discerning and finding out of the truth in this controversy. It is not necessary that any man interpose his judgement at this time, but to attend by prayer the good event which God will give for the further manifestation of his truth, and abolishing of the contrary. Now these few lines are thought in this matter sufficient, lest it might seem to forejudge any truth in either of these answers, or else by accepting of persons to foster corruption, or a lie in any thing set forth in the Name of the Lord. It is expedient therefore that the scriptures be faithful searched by the godly Reader, to see whether these things be even so or not. For no man that feareth God is ignorant of the doctrine of our Saviour christ, that whosoever breaketh the least of the commandments of God, and teacheth men so, is least in the kingdom of heaven. Neither ye● of this general & universal doctrine of god his word, true repentance, unfeigned faith with amendment of life, to be necessary unto salvation. But it is said before, these few things suffice. Therefore the faithful Reader is to be commended to the grace of God, for his further direction in this behalf, farewell dear brother in the Lord.   

AN ANSWER TO MASTER CARTWRIGHT HIS LETTER, FOR joining with the English Churches: Whereunto the true Copy of his said Letter is annexed.  
AS there be always both friends and enemies to the Church of God, so some do give their hands unto it as friends, and some being enemies will give it their left hand of friendshihpe to turn it clean out of the way. How friendly Master Cartwright is to it, let us examine by this his Letter, and by the grace of God, let us try out the truth betwixt him and us: his letter is in many men's hands, and was seen abroad unsealed and open, as if he cared not who should read it, wherefore I may the more boldly answer it, and the rather because the matter thereof is public and pertaining to the Church of God. It came but lately to my hands, and was written as they tell me more than five or six weeks ago, wherein if he and others that provoke him, sought not to take us tardy in the truth and to work us trouble, we would the les●e have regarded his letters: but seeing he will needs make us enemies to the common and ordinary good laws of the Realm, to the Church of god in the Realm, and to the peace and welfare of the common wealth: Let us answer his cavils: and for so much as we have so small respite of time, let us shortly gather up his untruths and errors, and hurl them out by manifest & known marks, lest any man do believe them as truth.  
Master Cartwright doth move the first question thus: That the outward profession made by the laws of the land, and the assemblies of the Church held accordingly, are condened as unlawful: this is the short (saith he) of M. Harrisons longer discourse, if he use to make such shorts, he is not meet to deal with short or with long. Let him lap up his shortes in his budget, and not send them abroad in stead of our lengths or larger size. For at the first brunt he would set against us all these enemies: 1. The laws of the land. 2. The outward profession by the laws. 3. The apparent Churches of Christ, 4 and the lawful assemblies thereof. First, for the laws, he knew well enough what Laws we mean: namely, certain Popish Cannon laws, which though the Magistrates do tolerate for a time, yet the common good laws of the land are wholly against them. Wherefore let him not deal doubly with us, as having our true meaning in his heart, to fumble out of his mouth or to shuffle up in his letter a contrary meaning: we know that the laws do punish all outward gross wickedness, or suffer it to be punished: as namely, Idolatry, forswearing, usurping of Lordship, rebellion, murder▪ fleshly filthiness, theft, oppression, railings, grievous slanders, drunkenness, etc. and if there be any vice not punishable by the law, yet the laws do suffer either the Church, or every householder, or governor to correct (so it be not against law) such as are under their charge. So then the laws are a wall to the Church round about: they stand up for it as an armed man, that it may show itself openly without shame or fear. For when they put down all outward gross wickedness, and will not suffer it, they do as it were scatter and drive away darkness from the Church, that men may see it visible and clear as the Sun. Likewise for the outward profession by the laws, Master Cartwright would play at handy dandie with us, and yet not give us that hand which we do choose: for there is an outward profession after the old Popish traditions and orders, let him hold this profession in his left hand: and there is a profession more sincerely by some, after some better Laws and Orders, this he should hold in his right hand: wherefore then doth he reach us that in his right hand as taking it unlawful, which we choose as lawful. If he say that we condemn that ordinary abused and corrupt profession of the most, I answer that the Laws do also the same: For the common Laws are against the cannon Laws in many hundredth points, one giveth check to the other as two Dames at variance in one house, the cannon is as fire in the house to burn it, the common is as water pouring down to quench it. The Popish courts esteem all sorts of christians for churches of Christ, much like those harlots, that would have many children though it were by fornication, that they might rule over many, but the Common wealth rejecteth her children, as being children of Death, even for smaller Thefts, felonies, Roginges, and Wanderinges, without honest Trades and labours; as for the right corrections of Adulteryes, those Whorish courts have taken so much upon them, that the Civil Magistrates could not so well see to it before this time. But now even for this matter they have given a great check to the cannon Officers. Also for persecuting the brethren and sundry worthy men, their authority and cannon power hath received a great blow and wound. If there be contrary laws one against another, as through change of times, variance of people, and other necessities, it may fall out, yet through favour and help of good Magistrates, the law shall still be with the Church and not against it: As for the magistracy of Bishops there is no law to warrant it, but only her majesties permission: likewise for the common form of service and prayers, there is exception by the law, and it is set down also in the book of Common prayer, that the prayers may be changed, intermitted, and left off by occasions: as when the Minister is to preach or apply himself to his study for preaching. Further whereas the law doth bind us to come to the church, it doth well, for no man ought to refuse the Church of God, yet if when we come to the church, we find there an unlawful minister, and a wicked confusion of all sorts of people, the fault is not now in the law but in the bishops which place such ministers, and in their spiritual courts which are authors of such confusion: for the Law commandeth that the Minister should be Doctus and Clericus, which words do require learning sufficient, and godliness meet for a clergy man: otherwise how should he be Clericus that is one of the lords inheritance. But the Bishops count him learned if he can but read only, and answer to a catechism as do children: wherefore good Magistrates will execute the law according to the true meaning, and not according to the extremity of the words, and if they see to it, that men shall come to Church, they will first see that the church be better ordered that men may come with comfort, and not with heart burning to their conscience. Also for discipline in gathering the worthy from the unworthy, the law appointeth it and giveth leave to make exception both in public judgement and in churches against unworthy persons: as against Drunkenness, fightings, murder, adulteryes, stealth, slanders, etc. and that before the Constables, justices of Peace, judges and justices of Assizes, and yet also do give liberty to the Church to use their own discipline. But either the Pope's cannon laws, and his officers do quite overthrow it, or the Ministers are so servile and foolish that they can not, or dare not execute it: It were too long to rehearse what liberty the laws do yield to us, and what outward profession there is by the laws: but thus we conclude, that seeing very many of the Bishops doings and their officers are unlawful, and yet very usually and ordinarily professed, held, and practised, we must needs say that such an ordinary profession is unlawful.  
Now followeth the chiefest and greatest matter in controversy: namely, Whether the ordinary assemblies of the professors in England be the Churches of Christ. A part of this question he must make as he doth the usual outward profession. What Master Harrison did write in his letter, and upon what words Master C. doth gather this question, I can not tell: for I never saw Master Harrisons letter: but I hope Master H. did not condemn any assemblies, but abused assemblies, neither any professors, but false professors: wherefore let him take his right meaning, namely, The ordinary abused assemblies of false professors. But he will admit no such distinction: for belike he will have no such assemblies, yet in a time of better reformation than is now in England, 
jerem. 3. 6. 1●.  as in the days of King josiah, the Lord witnesseth, that judah had not returned unto him with their whole heart but feignedly. If they then were false professors, whose hypocrisy was in their hearts, why should not they be false professors, which do show forth in practice a false profession, and that chiefly in their assemblies? but whatsoever false profession they have, and how gross soever their abuses be, Master Cartwright will prove them to be churches of Christ. But go to, let us examine his proo●es: those assemblies have Christ for their head and foundation, for saith he, they believe in Christ, and have the spirit of Christ, therefore they are the churches of Christ. Now to prove that they believe, he bringeth in their profession: so that all Master Cartwrights arguments falleth from one to one, till it come to nothing at all, for from the head and foundation of the church, he descendeth to the spirit and to faith, and so at last to the outward profession. Now the outward profession must chiefly be showed and justified by the lawful using of public assemblies. If they then be so shamefully abused by means of the bishops, and their officers, than his proof of the outward profession also falleth to the ground. Thus of necessity he must justify many gross corruptions both in the assemblies, & in sundry their practices and customs, or else lay by his proof as untrue. But what need he have fetched about and made such ado, touching faith and the spirit, and the head and the foundation of the Church, and then to have no other proof but the question to prove the question. For the question is, whether the assemblies be lawful outward Churches, being held according to so corrupt profession? or whether the outward profession of the false professors standing as it doth, the assemblies that are according, be lawful or no? Thus he proveth idem per idem: it is so, because it is so: it shall be so, because it shall be so. But mark his turning and shifting to and fro in this matter. For from the outward church and the outward profession he leapeth and fleeth to the spirit and faith, which are inward: and from the inward graces he returneth to the outward profession. Thus as one that is hunted with his enemy within, he runneth out, and being in danger without he runneth in: for by faith which is inward, and the spirit that is inward, he would justify an outward church. Again, by an outward, false, and corrupt profession, he will justify the inward spirit and faith of professors, to be sincere. Thus with turning and returning to and fro, he would establish his error, but he doth weary himself in vain. Now as his dealing herein is ridiculous, so he increaseth it unto a shameless and blasphemous doctrine: For he sayeth that there being but one only true Christian in a church, or congregation, and all the rest wicked, yea and so wicked that they have but a bare profession in word only without any good works, they should all be counted the church of God, for that one man's cause. I marvel how his pen could drop down such poison, and he not smell the stinch thereof as he wrote it: For by this doctrine every faithful christian shall be above Christ. For Master Cartwright doth give them power to lose those on earth, which God doth bind in heaven, and this power Christ never had: For if the faith of one or a few believers in an assembly be of force to make them all the Church, though the rest be gross offenders, 
Mat. 18. 18.  then need they to bind none in earth: And why should Saint Paul allege this power of our Lord jesus Christ, 
1. Cor. 5. 4.  if all may be taken for the Church by the faith of some?  
For Master Cartwright will give us a contrary power, namely, 
jerem. 7. 9 1.  to reckon all for the church. But will you steal, murder, commit adultery, and swear falsely, etc. sayeth the Lord, and come, and stand before me in this house whereupon my Name is called, and say, We are delivered, though we have done all these abominations? If Master Cartwright should answer this question, we should hear those lying words (for so the Prophet termeth them) namely, 
jere. 7. 4.  The Temple of the Lord, the Temple of the Lord, allis the Temple and Church of god: But a den of thieves is not the house and Temple of God. And if the faith of few will make many wretches to be the church, than the unfaithfulness of many should be of force to make them all no Church: But as my wickedness condemneth no man but myself, except they partake with me in my wickedness, so my faith justifieth no man to be of the church, except they hold with me an outward good profession according to faith. For show me thy faith by thy works (saith S. jam. 2) as who say, 
james 2.  he would not believe there were faith, if he saw not the works of faith. And Paul joineth the belief of the heart, 
Rom. 10. 10.  and confession of the mouth both together, as needful unto righteousness & salvation: and by the confession of the mouth, he meaneth all outward profession agreeing to faith, because the profession by mouth is chiefest. He can not turn his words, as if he spoke of one truly faithful, and all the rest secret hypocrites, for he speaketh of the outward profession, of the outward works, and of the outward church, & granteth also that there are many outward & gross abuses: further, he nameth that in words only they hold the true faith, as who say, be the deeds never so abominable, yet for that faithful man's sake, they are all to be called one church with him. If Master Cartwright had said clean contrary, he had spoken more truly: namely, that if among many good livers, one wicked man were found, as a murderer, an idolater, or an adulterer, and the rest become so negligent or wilful, or are held in such spiritual bondage, that any one such open and manifest offence is incurable, than the covenant is broken and disannulled with them all, till they repent and redress such wickedness. Proof there is by the 7. 
josh. 7. 12.  of joshua, the 13. 
Deut. 13.  of Deuteronomie, the 9 
Ezra 9  of Ezra, the 20. 
judg. 20.  of judges, the 3. 
jerem. 3. 1.  of jeremy and 1. verse. By the punishment of the whole land for saul's offence, 2. Samuel. 21. 
2. Sam. 21.  By the ceremonies of leprosies. Of touching unclean things. By the leaven (named of Paul) that leaveneth the whole lump 1. Cor. 5. 
1. Cor. 5.  & by sundry other places. Wherefore this doctrine of his, as it maketh for the Pope, that a whole wretched multitude may be the Church and depend on one man, & clean overthroweth the discipline of the church: so it is so contrary to God and all godliness, that I wonder any man should have the face to avouch it. If M. C. say, that he meaneth not a profession altogether corrupted, but a good profession in other duties, though that be nought, which justifieth such abuses in assemblies, I marvel how he dare pronounce it an apparent sanctification, or an holy profession in other duties, where there is so corrupt and polluted a profession in public assemblies. Doth not the Prophet teach us, 
Ezech. 18. 10.  That that man can have no name of a righteous, just, and holy man, which offendeth in any one gross sin. If he sin in any one of these things (saith the Prophet) though he do ●ot all these things he is a wicked man, all the righteousness which he hath done, shall not be mentioned, but his wickedness shall be upon him. 
james. 1. 26.  And if it be true that james saith, cap. ●. 26. that not to refrain a man's tongue, is to prove his religion vain: then to have a filthy polluted profession in public assemblies, is to make all other profession filthy and polluted. And so reasoneth the Prophet Haggi, 
Hag 2. 13. 14.  That as any holy meat was made unholy and unclean, if a polluted person did but touch it, or the skirt of a man's garment did but touch it, so much more unclean was that people and nation, and all their holy exercises and sacrifices, and all the works of their hands, becuase they polluted themselves but in one thing, namely, in slacking and fearing to build the outward Temple, which was but a figure of the outward Church of god at this day.  
But we come to another of Master Cartwrights proofs, which he giveth thus: They have the covenants of the churches of god, namely the spirit and the word of god put in their mouths, therefore they are the Churches of god. We do not deny but that there are sundry churches of god: but the question is of a corrupt profession by Popish Laws, and of unlawful assemblies made thereby. But whatsoever corruption there is, (as he granteth divers) yet they have the covenant saith he of the spirit, and the word of god in their mouths. So without shame he abuseth that place in Isaiah▪ 59 For he leaveth out one part of the covenant, 
Isa. 59 20.  which is, That the Lord will come unto Zion and to those that turn from iniquity in jacob, and with them will he make his covenant: wherefore the word is not the covenant to establish a Church except it reign and rule in the Church, to subdue it in obedience to the Lord: for the Lord maketh no covenant, but with those that turn from iniquity in jacob. 
Gen. 17. 1, 2.  As again it is written, Walk before me, and be thou upright, and I will make my covenant between me and thee. As who say, one condition and part of the covenant is our upright and good profession. 
jere 11. 3, 4.  So likewise in jeremy and Exodus, 
Exod. 19  the promise of obedience in the people, is set down as one part of the covenant, Obey my voice, and do according to all these things which I command you, so shall you be my people and I will be your god: or else cursed be the man that obeyeth not the words of this covenant. For on this condition will the Lord receive us, 
2. Cor. 6. 17, 18  as Paul reasoneth▪ if we come out from among the wicked, 
Isa. 52. 11.  and separate ourselves: 
jerem. 31. 1. ●  Then will I be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Thus should Master Cartwright have conferred place with place, and have known that the word is no covenant, where the practice thereof is rejected and trodden under foot: neither can men say they have the covenant of the spirit, when open and gross wickedness so reigneth in them, that there is no power of the spirit to redress it, but it remaineth incurable. 
Rom. 8. 14.  And so Paul reasoneth, that as many as are led by the spirit of god, they are the sons of god▪ but he showeth that they are in the state of condemnation, and not in Christ jesus, if they walk after the flesh, and not after the spirit. For there is not the covenant of the spirit, where we are not turned from iniquity as Isaiah himself witnesseth, 
Zech. 12. 10.  and let Zecharie interpret Isaiah, whose showeth what spirit God will power upon his house and people, namely, The spirit of grace and compassion, unto repentance and mourning for their sins. 
Ezec. 11. 19, 20.  Likewise Ezechiel doth give the proof and trial of that new spirit and new heart which God would put in his people, namely this, That they should walk in his statutes, and keep his judgements, and execute them, and so doing, they shall be his people, and he would be their god. Wherefore let not Master Cartwright account so much of the word in their mouths, 
Deut. 30. 14.  except as it is written in Deut. it be in their mouths and in their hearts for to do it. Otherwise Christ will pronounce of them, that in vain they worship the Lord, 
Mat. 15. 8.  and so are they false worshippers: for god is near in their mouths, and far from their reigns: 
jerem. 1●. 2.  They draw near unto god with their mouths and honour him with their lips, but their heart is far off from him. Surely such men are not those burning lamps, neither the golden candlesticks he speaketh of, but rather as those that will seek me daily, saith the Lord, 
Isa. 29. 13.  even as a nation that did righteously, 
Isa. 58. 2.  and had not forsaken the statutes of their god: they ask of me ordinances of justice, they will draw near unto me. 
Isa. 59 2, 20.  Yet in the next chapter the Lord witnesseth, that there was a great separation between him and them, so that he was to make a new covenant with them, and they were to turn from their former iniquities, or else they could not be his people and Church. And therefore when Christ appointeth the Apostles to plant churches throughout the world, 
Mat. 28. 19, 20.  he appointeth them not, to talk of and profess the word in their mouths only, but he giveth in charge these three things, as being the chief marks of a planted Church: namely preaching the word, ministration of the sacraments, & reformation of life, which is the chiefest thing of all to set forth his Church & kingdom: for he commandeth to preach and baptise, & because preaching & baptizing is nothing without amendment of life, he addeth these words, teaching them to observe & do all things, whatsoever I have commanded you. Therefore as appeareth in the acts of the Apostles, 
Acts 2.  was neither the church nor the covenants of the Church established among any, 
Acts 8.  but where their good & godly profession was showed, 
Acts 19 18.  and the contrary refused. I know M. C. will gainsay that there must needs be hypocrites in every church, & sometimes also open breach of gods commandments. 
1. Cor. 5. 11.  It is true indeed. But yet if any make an open and gross breach than Paul hath written unto us, that we company not together with such. For if any (saith he) that is called a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railor, or a drunkard, or an extortioner etc. with such a one eat not. The adversaries reply to this, that in deed to eat common bread with such, or to partake with them in the feasts of charity was forbidden, which distinction and shift they allege out of Calvin. But who dare say that the godly wife may not eat common bread with her excommunicate husband? or the godly children with their wicked parents? or servants with their masters? For otherwise all service, ministry & communion in a common wealth should be overthrown. And so as Paul reasoneth the godly should not be able to live in the world. Who also dare say that when the church held their feasts of charity they might forbid wicked persons to partake with them in the feasts, and yet suffer them to partake in the Lordes-table. Nay they kept their feasts and the lords Supper together. And hereupon Paul gave this distinction, that they should suffer none but brethren to join with them in the holy feasts or in the assemblies which were for ministration of the lords Supper: but if we will not eat and drink with sinners in the world we must go out of the world. Wherefore there is an eating with wretches in the world, or in worldly meetings and feastings, which is forbidden in the Church meetings. As if a brother being separate and fallen away, should in an Inn or vitailing house sit down at the table to eat, after we and others were set; it were unlawful to rise from the table because of him: yea it were both against common charity and humanity, and also against the peace & communion of a common wealth. But of this matter it followeth to speak afterwards.  
We haste one to others proofs. another proof is, as though it were granted him, that where a preaching minister is, there is a Church: nay we know that assemblies of papists have preaching ministers, and yet are not the church of God. And though they be Protestants which have a Preacher over them, yet if he for his wickedness cease to be a brother, and they also for their wickedness be no brethren, the preaching Minister can not cause them to be a Church of God. This is manifest before, and shall partly also afterward be spoken of: wherefore I let it pass. As for that he saith, of some knowledge received by a dumb ministery, and of faith received by some further ministery, it is much like the same trifling proof he used before, and is answered already. For we said, that the inward faith will not justify the outward Church, when there is a wicked profession contrary to the doctrine of faith. Again a man may believe, & be won to faith, by means of some godly brother, and that before he have outwardly joined himself to the Church: so in gods secret election he is of the church: yet because he hath not the outward profession, can not be said to be the outward Church. But here Master Cartwright though he dare not justify the blind reading Ministers, yet he doth praise them as doing some good. But of this matter also it followeth afterward to entreat, as whether he that doth so much hurt and mischief can be said to do any good at all. Likewise it is a trifling to no purpose, that he saith, the Church ceaseth not, when a minister faileth or wanteth: for we know that even two or three agreeing together in the truth, & separate from wickedness, if none other will join with them, even they are an outward and visible Church, and have this power of Christ, 
Mat. 18. 18.  even to bind men on earth, and to lose them on earth, that they may be bound or loosed in heaven. For though by persecution they be driven into corners, yet their good profession is outward and visible in itself, and yet hidden from their enemies which are unworthy to see it, for the church may increase into thousands and decrease also in this world, even to a little household, 
revel. 11. 8.  and to four or five persons. For jerusalem fell away, and became as Sodom and Egypt, and the Lord did blot out the whole name and church of the jews, and called his people by another name: as it is written isaiah 65. 
Isa. 65. 15.  Acts 11. 
Act. 11. 26.  But in these latter days, it is prophesied that the Church should be small, hidden, and driven into corners. So that as in Noas' time, eight persons only escaped, even so when the son of man shall come he shall not find faith on the earth, 
revel. 12. 13, 14.  & those days before his coming shall be so hard, that scarce any flesh shall be saved. 
Mat. 24. 22.  Indeed one person will not make a church▪ for the Church must needs be a number, 
Mat. 18. 19, 20.  but where two or three are gathered together in the name of Christ, 
Philem. 2.  there is he in the mids of them. 
Col. 4. 15.  And the household of Philemon is named a Church. 
Rom. 16. 5.  Likewise the household of Olymphis, 
1 Cor. 5. 4.  of Aquila & Priscilla, and others. For if they have the power which Paul calleth the power of our Lord jesus Christ, and do meet together few or more in the Name of Christ, they are surely the Church of Christ. Therefore this doctrine is still against Master Cartwright for neither the word in the preachers mouth, nor the Sacraments can make an outward Church, except they have the power of Christ to separate the unworthy. For Master C. confesseth that the name of a Church shall remain, though the preacher and his preaching do cease, and is wanting for a tyme. But without this power of binding, that is, of declaring men's wickedness, and forsaking their fellowship to leave them unto Satan being open and grievous offenders, there is no name, nor show of the church of Christ remaining. If he demand proof hereof, the scriptures are manifest. For God hath given this power, not only to the preachers, but to all the saints of god, 
Psal. 14▪ 9 6, 7, 8, 9  as appeareth by that Psalm, namely, By the word of god in their mouths, to bind even the Kings and nobles of the earth, and to execute upon them his spiritual judgement, & the text followeth, that this honour shall be to all the Saints. Wherefore it is not peculiar to some one, or to ●ome few alone, 
Isa. 54. 7.  but it belongeth to all: yea this is the heritage of all the lords servants, as Isaiah testifieth. In deed it is true, that we ought jointly to execute this power: but if others will not or be in bondage that they can not join with us therein, than they are not the Church, but the bondslaves of men. For this power belongeth to every one severally to forsake wicked fellowship, 
Ephe. 5. 7.  and there is a commandment given to every one, to forsake the unfruitful works of darkness, to be no companions with such, to have no fellowship with them, 
2. Thes. 3. 6.  to withdraw ourselves, from every brother that walketh inordinately: yea and to turn away from all, 
2. Tim. 3. 5.  which having a show of godliness do deny the power thereof. For if we walk in darkness, and say we have fellowship with god, 
1. john 1. 6.  we lie, (saith S. john) and do not truly: But if we walk in the light, we have fellowship one with another, otherwise that fellowship holdeth not. And in Hosea commandment is given unto all, 
Hose. 2. 2.  even to plead against the mother church, if it fall away, that as god doth forsake it so every one also should stand against it, 
Acts 2▪ 40.  if it become abominable. And so also all are commanded to save themselves from a froward generation. But it may be here objected, how we answer to the place in Matth. 18 that we must complain to the Church, and then if the offender hear not the Church, we must take him for a heathen and publican. I grant that if the offence be private, he must be first privately dealt with. But this proveth not, that either for private or open offences, we must wait on them for redress, which are enemies of the Church, and which have no power to bind and lose, as hath the church. Wherefore let not Master Cartwright account so much of the assemblies he speaketh of: for what is a Church without this power we spoke of? yea what are those assemblies which in stead of it, do hold that Antichristian power of the spiritual courts, or rather are held in bondage by it? But Master Cartwright alloweth not only those assemblies, but also those vile courts and officers, and Bishops set over them to be all the Church of God. For he sayeth afterward, namely in the sixth page, that the calling of the dumb ministers, whichis by them, is a calling of the church and sufficient to make them ministers: yea and he seemeth to allow also their suspendings of preachers, as if it were done by the Church, so that both for complaint and for redress of defaults, & for establishing and gathering the churches, he alloweth or tolerateth those officers and courts to have the power and authority of the church. But God hath appointed no such kind of complaints in the Church, neither such kind of redress, nor ordering of matters. First, because they redress and order matters by money, Bribes, Fees, Civil penalties etc. wherein the Church discipline ought not to meddle. For the weapons of our warfare sayeth Paul, 
2. Cor▪ 10. 4.  are not carnal. He meaneth that the Church may not deal in matters of reformation, as doth the common wealth and this present world. The Church can deal no further then only by rebuke, warning and exhortation out of god's word, and by forsaking & casting of fellowship in grosser sins: And therefore rightly may the word and his Spiritual graces be called the weapons of our warfare. Also in the church there can be no recompense made for sin by money. 
Num 35. 3●. 32.  For the sinner is the murderer of his own soul. And therefore the law of god is, that for murder or killing any, there can be no recompense made, save only by the death of the maslayer himself, or the high Priest, which figured thus much, that except we see in any transgressor open repentance and faith in the death of Christ, we are to judge him still dead in his sin, and that money can not make him to live, nor redress his wickedness. And the officers that take money in such a case, 
Hose. 4. 8.  do even eat up the sin of the people, as it is written and lift up their minds in their iniquity. Also because the judges and officers of the court do wrest God's Law, 
Deut. 16. 14.  by their Popish cannon Law, and respect persons and take reward which is forbidden in Deuteronomie (and by their profession they must needs do so, or else they can not hold their office,) how shall any make complaint unto them for Church matters, which can be counted none of the church. And seeing Christ hath commanded to complain to the Church against the sinner, how shall Christ's ordinance be broken by complaining unto such wretches. Furthermore seeing the Scripture showeth that the church hath nothing to do to judge those which are without, 
1. Cor. 5. 12.  how shall any complain of such a number of wicked men, as never were worthy to be counted the church. Again, seeing no godly man may seek judgement under the unjust, 
1. Cor. 6. 1.  as Paul showeth, if he have a matter against a brother, why should we seek unto such for judgement. Further the rebuke and reforming of a brother ought not to be delayed, till the time of keeping their courts, 
1. Thes. 5.  For we know perfectly (saith Paul) that the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night: and as he that sinneth ought not to delay his repentance, 
Deut. 7. 10.  and promise safety to himself, 
Amos. 6. 3.  least sudden destruction come: so he that seethe his brother sin▪ ought to hast his repentance and reformation, For thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart, 
levit. 14. 17.  (sayeth the Scripture) but thou shalt plainly rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. 
1. Cor 5.  And the Corinthians are sharply rebuked of negligence, because they hasted not to cast out of the Church the incestuous person, and likewise, because they made too long delay in receiving him again being penitent. 
2. Cor. 7. ●.  Again because those cannon officers are strangers, neither known to the Churches, not dwelling among them, no marvel though Christ say, 
john. 10.  that his sheep will not follow nor seek to strangers, but will flee from them. Moreover, Because they bring the Churches into bondage (as it is written) because they devour, 
2. Cor. 11. 20.  because they take their goods, because they exalt themselves, and as it were smite the people on the face, and cast them them in prison, they do all these things; besides the church government, and therefore aught to be rejected, and in no case to be uffered. Thus it is manifest by the word of God that such proud prelate's, and Antichristian usurpers, have no authority nor power of the church: neither is their suspendings to be counted suspensions by the church, nor their calling of Ministers a calling by the Church. Nay surely the least in the kingdom of God shallbe able by the word of God in their mouths, 
Mat. 11. 11.  to pluck up and root out such plants if none other will join with them. I mean they shall pronounce them by the word of god to be abominable, 
jere 1. 10.  & have no fellowship with them in the church & so to them they are utterly plucked out of the Church. For they are kings and priests under Christ, 
revel. 1. 6.  to execute the lords government against such: 
1. Pet. 25.  and therefore they ought not to lose their right, 
Exod. 19  which is even their heritage and glory, Isaiah 54. or rather the glory or kingdom of god, even the keys of the kingdom of heaven to bind and lose, Mat. 18. The power of Christ jesus to deliver up the wicked to Satan, 1. Corinth. 5. The sceptre of his word for rebuke, doctrine, exhortation, promising life, denouncing judgement. For this is a right sceptre, which subdueth the people under us, 
Psa. 45. 6.  and the nations under our feet Psalm 45. 
Psa. 47. 3.   
He allegeth another proof by peradventure. For he guesseth, that peradventure we will say, it were better for an assembly to have no minister at all, then to have a blind reading minister. And then he reasoneth thus, that having none at all but yesterday they are the church, or may be the church, then having a dumb minister to day, they are still the Church of god, and can not so suddenly be made the synagogue of Satan. This is a slender proof, and borrowed by imagination: for we make not the minister, whether dumb, or not dumb to be the essence, substance, or life of the outward Church, but the keeping of the covenant by the outward discipline and government thereof. 
Zacha. 11. 10.  And the Lord calleth the keeping of the covenant by this discipline, his staff of beauty, as appeareth in Zecharie, which being broken, he disannulleth his covenant with the people, and so they become the sheep of slaughter, For he saith, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die, and that that perisheth, let it perish, and let the remnant eat every one the flesh of neighbour. Likewise in jere. & Ezek. as the breaking of the covenant is set down to be the death, 
jere. 11. 3 4.  and perishing of the church & people of God: 
jere, 31. 32.  so the keeping thereof by better discipline and government was the life and renewing of the Church. 
Ezek. 16. 60. 61. 62. 63.  Why then should Master Cartwright reason so fond? 
H●br▪ 8. 8.  as though they that held the covenant to day, might not break it to morrow, and as though any gross wickedness committed of all, were not the breaking of the covenant by all. Did not the people plead truly against Reuben and God, 
Ioshu. 22. 18.  that if they rebelled to day against the Lord, even to morrow the Lord would be wroth with all the Congregation of Israel. And they allege further, that for Achans sin, wrath fell on all the congregation of Israel. How suddenly and quickly was this sin committed? 
Ioshu. 7. 12.  and how soon was the Lord provoked, even to forsake all the congregation, and to be with them no more, except they destroyed the excommunicate from among them: for so are the words of the Lord himself. Now what was that sin, which Israel calleth rebellion in Reuben and God, both against the Lord, and against the rest of Israel? And what was the sin of Achan? Surely they thought that the Reubenites and Gadites had broken that commandment which the Lord had given them, 
Deut. 12. 11. 12. 13.  namely, that they should not offer their burnt offerings in every place which they liked, but only in the place which the Lord had chosen to put his name there. Now who knoweth not, but that that place of the name of God, figured the visible Church of god, so that this matter toucheth M. C. very nearly. For if it be true, that as all sacrifices then, so all sacraments now, are rebellion against the Lord, being ministered without the visible Church of God, than that sin which he calleth a fault, shallbe found to be more than a fault, even rebellion & falling away from the Lord. And this is a sin of execration, even abomination in the eyes of the Lord, to measure the visible church of god, by a compass of ground, by a number of households, by slint of tithes & tenths as we see in our parishes. For the place maketh not the church, neither is the church or true religion to be measured by the place, 
john. 4. 23.  as Christ himself teacheth us, for neither in the mountain where the father worshipped, neither yet at Jerusalem the city of god, was God any more to be worshipped, but the true worshippers shall worship the father in spirit & truth. By which words Christ meaneth thus much, first, that the spirit & truth being showed by the outward good profession, declare the outward Church of God, and not the places, neither temples, nor cities, nor parishes. For in whom we see the spirit, that is, the graces of the spitit by their outward good works, and the truth, that is the laws and word of Christ which is true, to be kept & observed, them only we must call the Church of God. And therefore in Isaiah it was showed before● that with those only which turn from iniquity in jacob, 
Isa. 59 20.  will the Lord make his covenant, even his spirit which is upon them, and his words which he hath put in their mouth. Secondly by those words Christ teacheth, that all the jewish ceremonies should be abolished, because the chiefest, even jerusalem and the Temple should be no more. For the temple at jerusalem & circumcision were the chiefest. How great the city and the Temple were, 
1 King. 8. 29.  it appeareth by that prayer of Solomon, 1. Kings 8. 29. And by sundry other places. Deuteronom▪ 12. 11. 
Dent 12. 11.  jerem. 3. 17. 
jere. 3. 17.  Ezek. 43. 7. 
Ezek. 43. 7.  etc.  
And of circumcision Paul reasoneth with the Galatians, That if they be circumcised, they are bound to keep the whole ceremonial law: for it being one of the chiefest ceremonies, 
Gala. 5 3.  if they still observed it, they should also observe all the rest, but if they rejected the chiefest, they should also reject all the rest. And to that end Christ reasoneth, that seeing all things are now to be verified in spirit and truth, therefore all ceremonial and superstitious worship should cease. As also Paul reasoneth, 
Gala. 5. 18.  That if they be led by the spirit, they are not under the ceremonies of the law. So than it appeareth that tithings, because they were ceremonies, belong not to the Church. And because such abomination is committed by them, namely, the due planting and gathering of the church is hindered, and the liberty of the Church for removing evil ministers stopped, they are even the execrable things which Achan did steal. For if the common wealth (as it ought) had long ago taken from the ministery those tenths, and Popish livings, than jericho being once destroyed (I mean the Antichristian churches once put down) had not so soon been built again: but now such tithings, benefices, and bishoprics remaining, they have builded by them an other jericho in stead of the first, in deed somewhat differing from the first: but as contrary to God's church and holy city as was the first: yea and Master Cartwright also will justify that execrable stealth of Achan, and call jericho, (I mean those woeful assemblies and Parishes) the visible church and city of God. 
joshua. 6. 26.  But cursed be the man before the Lord (saith joshua) that riseth up and buildeth again this city jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his eldest son & in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it. Satan is that envious and malicious man, which hath builded again this city, his eldest sons were the first beginners of this lamentable state, whom God did afterward scourge, and call to repentance in the time of Queen Marie, and broke their enterprise: and his youngest sons are these latter reformers, whom God also will certainly plague except they repent. But to come again to Master Cartwrights proof, let him not say that we count any assembly, whether they have a dumb minister o● have none to be the outward Churches of God, except they keep the covenant by the outward discipline and government of the Church. Further Master Cartwright saith that in such assemblies, the dumb minister is not chief, but Christ, and that we make nothing of the dumb minister, and yet will needs have him to be the head of those Churches. Indeed we make nothing of him concerning any goodness that is by him, for he helpeth nothing thereto, but concerning the mischief and hurt which he doth, or the sin that is by him, 
jere. 10. 21.  let him not say we make nothing of it. For if they be beasts (as it is written) so that by their want of understanding and conscience, the flocks of the pastor be scattered and perish, shall we say it is nothing. If they be those foolish shepherds whom the Lord saith by Zecharie, he will raise up in judgement, to sell and to slay the sheep, 
Zecha. 11. 15. 16. ibid. 11. 4. 5. etc.  to eat the flesh of the fat, and to tear them in pieces, which also shall not look for them that are lost, nor seek the tender lambs, nor heal that is hurt, nor feed them, but rather feed themselves upon their flesh, shall we make nothing of such ministers? But go to: he sayeth that Christ is the head of those assemblies, and not the dumb ministers. That Christ is their head or foundation, he can not prove, as was showed before, wherefore for any thing he can prove, the dumb ministers in the absence of the Bishops and their officers, are the chief and heads over them. That they are always chief we said it not, for when the Bishops which are greater usurpers are present, than they are heads, and both the dumb ministers and hireling preachers, may serve well enough to be the tail. For Satan hath all ways by such, 
revel. 12. 4.  as by the tail of the dragon, drawing the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. What shall we understand by heaven, but the show of the church, as it were set in heaven, & by the stars, but the children of the church, falling to wickedness and losing their light. Such are the people of those assemblies, whom Satan hath cast upon the earth as stars rout light. He bringeth another proof by Corah and his company. For they (saith he) were not cast forth of the lords host by Moses, therefore should not these assemblies also which have a dumb minister thrust upon them, be reputed for runnegates from the Lord, well, let us see: was not in deed Corah with those that clave to him, 
Num. 16.  put apart from the host of the Lord? 
verse. 24. 25. 26.  First, Moses commanded the congregation (& the Lord so bade him) to departed from the tents of those wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest they perished in their sins: was not this a putting apart, or a casting out? Again by the word of the Lord in the mouth of Moses, the earth opened her mouth, 
verse. 31.  and swallowed them up quick. For assoon as he had ended his words (saith the text) even the ground clave asunder that was under them: was not this also a putting apart, or a casting out? The next day also fourteen thousand and seven hundredth died by a plague for cleaving still to Corah by an aftermurmuring: was not this a putting apart? And these judgements were both an ensample and a figure of the spiritual judging at this day, both by excommunication, & by rebuke, and denouncing judgement. For otherwise to what purpose is it said in the revelation, that the witnesses at this day, meaning every faithful preacher, 
reve. 11. 4.  are as olive trees, and golden candlesticks standing before the god of the earth: and that fire proceedeth out of their mouths▪ and devoureth their enemies: and that they have power to shut heaven, and power over waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with all manner plagues, as often as they will. 
verse▪ 12.  If he say that Corah and his company were not forthwith cast out (though it be evident that forthwith they did cast out themselves) he should know that there must be a time to examine their cause, yet in that short time they had of examining being but a day, for the next day they perished. We read that Dathan & Abiram would not come to be examined, and so of themselves they were put apart. As for Corah and his company two hundredth & fifty, where as they took censers & came before the Lord in the door of the tabernacle, they did it as usurpers: and both in the very act doing were separate by fire to destruction, and before the act, Moses is so far from joining with them, or from allowing or tolerating their act, that he prayeth against it, saying, Lord look not unto their offering Likewise that the people joined not with them in their censing, it is evident: for even while they were burning incense, or before, the commandment was given▪ which they obeyed, that they should get them away from about the tabernacle of Corah, Dothan, & Abiram, and touch nothing of theirs. Now if any will take vantage, that yet their censers were holy, as the text saith because they offered them before the Lord: & so will impute some holiness to the ministry of dumb ministers, let us consider what holiness this was▪ First, their action was altogether unholy, & none might or did join with them therein. And therefore the censers were consecrate as a sign & remembrance saith the text, that no stranger which is not of the seed of Aaron, 
verse. 39 40.  come near to offer incense before the Lord, that he be not like Corah & his company. Wherefore those censers were holy, because they were made a holy sign of judgement for warning to all posterities not to do the like: wherefore I would say, there were holiness in the dumb ministry, if all the dumb ministers were hanged up in the Churches and public assemblies, for a warning & terror to the rest, that are ready to enter such a function. Then indeed they were a holy sign & remembrance of judgement against such wretches, but other holiness have they none in them. Yet M. C. dare say that their ministration of Sacraments, & reading of prayers is holy & sanctified, yea so far sanctified that we may lawfully receive the Sacraments of them, & join with them in prayers▪ Belike because Moses commanded Corah & his company to come with their censers, therefore those also must come with their service books. But did Moses call them for any other purpose, save only to destroy than? Did he mean as M C. doth, to join with them, to tolerate their ministery, to excuse their usurping, to pronounce a blessing on their ministry. For indeed it is blessed if it be as he saith, that we may lawfully receive the Sacraments of them. Did not Moses say plainly, To morrow the Lord will show who is his, and who is holy, and who ought to approach near unto him? meaning that by his terrible judgement, he would show that they were none of his, and that there was no holiness in their action of coming near to the Lord. Surely therefore, this holiness which M. Cartwright imputeth to the dumb ministers and their assemblies, is like the holiness, whereof Corah spoke together with his company, saying, That all the congregation was holy, every one of them, and the Lord was among them.  
another proof Master Cartwright taketh by the seals of the covenant, that is, the Sacraments. They have the Sacraments (saith he) as seals of the covenant, therefore they are within the covenant, and so are the Churches of god. Here the question falleth out, whether the sacraments are false sacraments, and counterfeit seals of the covenant: He saith it is granted him, that they are true and uncounterfaite sacraments being ministered by sufficient ministers, for (sayeth he) if we condemn the seals set to by dumb ministers, than we must needs justify the Sacraments ministered by sufficient ministers: So by his iffs and supposing he will gather against us what proofs he list. But though they be preaching ministers, yet are they not sufficient ministers, as we showed before. For if they go out of the way, as it is written, 
Mala. 2. 5. 6. 7. 8.  and cause many to dash and fall by the law, they are not sufficient ministers, but they break the covenant of Levi, and the Lord will make them despised and vile before the people, because they keep not his ways. If they be never so famous in preaching, yet if they be worldly minded men, 
Phil. ●▪ 18.  and whose bellies are their gods, and glory to their shame, they are not sufficient ministers▪ But why did M. C. so subtly set contrary to dumb ministers, sufficient ministers, & not rather preaching ministers. For the question is of false professors, and of a false profession, and therefore also of preachers which hold a false profession, together with their assemblies: now such we say are not sufficient. for they are not such as Paul appointeth in his epistles to Timothy and Titus. So herein we see how Master Cartwright misseth of his proof, 
Titus' ●. 6, 7, 8, 9  and in missing doth take a further foil. 
1. Tim. 3. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.  for he reasoneth that if the Sacraments do prove a Church, then though they have not the discipline commanded by Christ, yet they are the Church. But how doth this follow? belike he thinketh that the Sacraments may be severed from discipline, yea and the Church also, and yet be an outward and visible Church of God. How true this is, it followeth afterward to be examined. First let us stand on his proof, that he taketh by the judgement of other Churches in Europe, all which (saith he) giveth the right hand of society unto our English assemblies▪ which proof he confesseth not to be so strong, yet strong enough to stay all sudden judgements, and so long to cause silence till on either side the light of the truth do break forth. I will not hear enter into that question, whether the Churches have power to sit in men's consciences, and to shut up men's mouths from testifying their judgements and consciences, for in some matters Master Cartwright doth give them that power, namely for their verdict and sentence, which be true Churches of God. What vantage the Pope and Papists might take hereby for defence of their churches it may be easily judged: and what a clog to men's consciences it were to justify and join with all assemblies, till all the churches by general consent did condemn them, let every one judge. But surely Paul witnesseth, 
1 Cor. 1. 2. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15.  that the spirit of God in his children searcheth out all things even the deep things of God: yea it judgeth and knoweth all things that are of God. And again he saith, that he which is spiritual discerneth all things: yet he himself is judged of no man: meaning, that indeed worldly men can not rightly judge of him. wherefore the godly may freely both judge and give their judgement, even of all assemblies which they know, whether they be the true Churches of God. 
Phil. 4. 7, 8, 9  And in another place he commandeth not only to mind, judge & think on all things that are true, and honest and just, and pure but also to do them. Wherefore as we ought to love the godly and their assemblies, 
Phil. 1. 9  so our love (as Paul teacheth us) ought to abound more and more in knowledge and in all judgement, that we may discern things that differ, especially that we may know the house of God from a den of thieves. But herein Master Cartwright doth much abuse us and also all the Churches of Europe. For neither we, do cast out the churches of two whole. Islands as he saith, neither do they hold them all in For though the fame of the Martyrs of England came to their ears, and also their doctrine & profession at that time, as they themselves wrote it or testified it by mouth, was known unto them, and then in the time of affliction they took them for brethren and churches, yet it followeth not, that now in our security, they hear of our canon laws and popish government & of our woeful abuses thereby, or if they do hear, that notwithstanding, they do hastily justify us. In deed they can not rashly condemn us, because they know not our state: and rather they should take our assemblies to be the churches of God, for the fame they have sometimes heard of the Martyrs. But that we which thoroughly know them, should not judge truly and do accordingly, it is both against reason and duty. 
Mat. 15. 13, 14.  For as every pla●nt whi●h the heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up: saith Christ: so in the next verse he showeth the way to root them up: namely that we put away from us their guiding and governing, being blind guides and leaders of the blind, and let them alone▪ And so with jeremy we shall pluck up and root out, 
jerem. 1.  destroy and throw down even kingdoms and nations: that is as we said before, we shall pronounce their wickedness, and judgement against them, and forsake their fellowship, and so leaving them to the judgements of God, they shall surely be plucked up and destroyed▪ except they repent. Wherefore let not Master Cartwright think much, if God do set one man, 
jere. 1. 17, 18.  even against a whole country. For jeremy in as good times as ours are, was set against the whole land, against the Kings of judah, and against the princes thereof, against the priests thereof, and against the people of the land And in another place, 
jere. 9 2.  he would utterly leave the people, and go from them, and dwell alone in the wilderness And so well did he like their assemblies, that he calleth them all adulterers and an assembly of rebels. And in another place he is forbidden to have any fellowship with them, 
jer. 16. 5, 6, 7, ●  whether pleasant or unpleasant: so that he might neither mourn with them, neither rejoice, neither eat nor drink with them. And if it be said, that jeremy had a special commandment, which we have not, we know that all the commandments of God, upon the like occasions, belong unto us. And concerning authority and power, we proved before, that the least in the kingdom of God, hath it equal with jeremy or any of the Prophets. Hereby is that also answered which Master Cartwright inferreth, that if one man be found worthy of excommunication, the smaller part of an assembly is not to proceed against him, if the greater part will not. What doctrine is this? and what one word of God doth he name for proof of this & divers other such ●ike? For though Kings & nations & all the would, wuold take any known wretched liver to be a brother, and communicate with him, yet neithenr the smaller part of an assembly, neither I alone ought to do it. For there is a flat law set down by the Lord: 
Exod. 23. 2.  Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil: neither agree in a controversy to decline after many, and overthrow the truth. But Master Cartwright will say, that this Law was given for wittnessing the truth in public judgement, and not that every one should take upon him to excommunicate. We know that the common wealth of Israel: and their civil judgement did figure out the Lords Spiritual judgement in his Church: 
ephes. 2. 12.  and therefore it is said of Saint Paul that we are now no more alients from the common wealth of Israel; which words do show that their Common wealth did figure out our spiritual fellowship. But whether it did or no, the law is generally given both for civil judgement, and for all dealings in controversy, that we ought to give true judgement and testimony, and not to keep back judgement, or pervert the truth for any man's cause, yet we say not that every one may excommunicate alone. For we ought to tell the Church, 
Matth. 18.  (saith Christ,) and so we should have the church to join with us in that action. And Paul showeth that his spirit & theirs being met together, 
1. Cor. 5.  was joined as in one for excommunicating the incestuous person. but what if the rest of the church will not join with us therein? Surely then, as we proved before, we must set ourselves against them all, we must not be afraid of their faces, as the Lord commandeth, 
jerem. 1. 17.  lest he destroy us before them. For they all, that knowing Achans sin, refuse being warned to cut him off, 
josh. 7.  are guilty with him in his sin, or if they touch or come near the tents of Corah, Dathan and Abiram, they shall perish with them: 
Nomb 16.  or being in a city that is fallen away to Idolatry, if they flee not out of it, or set not themselves against it, 
Deut. 13. 15.  they shall be destroyed with it. All which judgements do teach the Church at this day, true judgement: namely, to set itself both against small & against great companies, if they withstand or refuse the true discipline of the church. 
jere. 15. 10.  For jeremy saith of himself, that he was as a contentious man, and a man that did strive with the whole earth: every one did curse him, his own familiars watched for his halting, as he saith in another place, he was in derision daily and every one mocked him: 
jerem. 20. 7, 8, 9, 10.  for he called them all an assembly of rebels, private familiar fellowship he broke off with them, as was showed before, and openly he came not amongst them, but only to proclaim their sins, and preach vengeance against them. If it be then asked, whether jeremy did condemn them all as none of the church and people of God: 
jerem. 5. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.  let jeremy himself answer it, for indeed by their usual and common profession and trade of life, they showed not themselves to be the people and Church of god. For as it is written, both the great men and rulers, 
jerem. 9 2, 3. etc.  and also the inferior and poorer people had all together broken the yoke and burst the bands. In the streets of jerusalem, and in the open places there could not a man be found, that did execute judgement and sought the truth, that the Lord might spare the city. And he sayeth in another place, 
jerem, 6. 28.  They are all rebellious traitors, they are brass and iron, they are all destroyers, they shall call them reprobate silver, because the Lord hath rejected them. From the least of them, even to the greatest of them, every one is given unto covetousness, and from the Prophet even unto the Priest, 
jerem 23. 14.  they all deal falsely. They are all unto me (saith the Lord again) as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as the people of Gomorrah, yet I do not doubt, but that there was the Church, and children of God amongst them. For jeremy himself and Barucke was with them: 
Isa ●9. 14, 15.  for Isaiah witnesseth that when judgement was turned backward, and justice stood a far off, so that all truth and equity failed, yet (I say) there were some that refrained from evil, and were made a prey to the rest. 
Isa. 51. 18.  In deed openly there was none to reform the church: of all his children there was none that took her by the hand to bring her into the way. For the Lord sought for a man among them that should make the hedge, 
Ezek. 22. 30.  and stand in the gap before him for the land, that he should not destroy it but he found none. Yet there were those that had a mark on their foreheads, 
Ezek. 9 4.  as mourning and crying for all the abominations that were committed. And if it be asked, whether these were a visible church of God, it is answered by Ezekiel in another place, that among the heathen and in the countries where the Lord did scatter them, 
Ezek. 11. 16.  he was as a little Sanctuary unto them: whereby is meant, that though they wanted the visible sign of the temple and Sanctuary at jerusalem, yet their holy conversation should show the Lord to be among them, 
Ezek. 34. 17.  and that the Lord would judge between sheep and sheep, between the rams and the goats. It is manifest that the Synagogogues of the jews in Antiochia and Ephesus were the churches of God: yet when Christ was preached unto them, and they withstood Paul and Barnabas, did Paul or Barnabas stay for the consent of the most part to cast them off? Did they not forthwith separate the disciples, 
Act. 13 46. 51.  and gather the church apart from them? yea will M C. 
Act 19 9  say: for they were worthy to be cast off, seeing they refused Christ. Then belike it is true, that one man or a few persons may cast off whole churches, for some greater sins and offences. How then is it true which M. C. saith, that one man being found & judged to deserve separation, should not be separate except the most part do consent? He will say peradventure, that he excepteth idolaters & apostates from the Lord. why then did he give a general rule, without naming such exceptions? yet Christ for all disobedience in refusing any message of God, doth give commandment, 
Mat. 10. 14.  even to all and every one of his messengers, to cast off whole cities and churches, 
Luk. 9 5.  as being in a worse case than Sodom and Gomorrha. For if they receive you not, sayeth he, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or that city, shake off the dust of your feet against them. He will answer, that their sin also of not receiving the messengers of Christ, was the sin of Apostasy. And is not this a message from Christ, when one or a few persons do justly rebuke the congregation for overthrowing the lords discipline and treading his sceptre under foot? and is not his sceptre cast down, and his kingdom polluted, when he which is manifestly known and proved to deserve separation, can not be cast out? But again he will say, that those cities and churches were not cast off, for refusing the lords messengers, but for refusing such a message as they brought: namely that the Christ and Messiah was now come in the flesh. Surely till after the death of Christ, they had no such message. For Christ straightly charged his disciples, that they should tell no man, 
Mat. 16. 20.  that he was jesus the Christ: meaning that till his death and rising again, it is not meet that that doctrine should be blazed abroad, but it was sufficient for that time, if they generally believed in the Messiah, as the jews also did, and refused him not when he should be preached more clearly yet long before his death was the commandment given, concerning those houses or cities, which should refuse his messengers. yet in deed it is true, that they which refuse his discipline and government, do also refuse Christ himself: and so it is the sin of apostasy. For so it is written, 
Luk. 19 27.  Those mine enemies which would not, that I should reign over them, bring hither and slay them before me. But hereto they will answer, that yet till judgement was executed by the Lord himself, they were called his Citizens: 
verse. 14.  for so the text sayeth that his Citizens hated him, and sent an embassage after him, saying, we will not have this man to reign over us. But do they not know, that they are called his Citizens, because they should have been so, and were not, but became his enemies. Indeed they were Citizens in name only, but not in deed. So jerusalem in name was called the city of God, yet in deed it became that great City, as it is written, 
revel. 11. 8.  which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord also was crucified. The jews were planted a noble vine as jeremy witnesseth: 
Isa. 5 7.  and Isaiah sayeth, that the vineyard of the Lord of Hosts was the house of Israel, and the men of judah (were sometimes) his pleasant plant, but now they are turned unto me sayeth the Lord into the plants of a strange vine. 
jere. 2. 21.  yea that we be not beguiled with the Names of God's house, Church, and City, he himself hath given it a name, as it is written, the name of that city shallbe from that day, 
Ezek. 48. 35.  The Lord is there. And in this respect also it is called in jeremy the throne of his glory. As who say that among whomsoever we see not the Lord to reign by his government & discipline, 
jere. 14. 21.  as it were in the throne of his kingdom, them we should ●●dge not to be the city & church of God. And though the church ●o pray, 
Ezek. 43. 7.  that God would not cast down the throne of his glory, nor break the conant with them: yet jeremy bringeth in those words as a complaint of the penitent, and not to prove that the wretched sort either held the covenant, or were the throne of God. 
Isa 35. 8.  Wherefore to conclude this matter, The path and way of the Lord is holy, as the prophet teacheth, & no polluted shall pass by it: there shallbe no lion, no noisome beast shall ascend by it, neither shall they be found there. whereby is meant that open and gross sinners shall not be suffered in the Church. For either they shall be separate by excommunication, or else all the godly shall withdraw themselves from them, and hold them accursed. As it is written, If any man love not the Lord jesus, 
1. Cor. 16. 22.  let him be had in execration, yea excommunicate to death. And surely they love not the Lord, but are his enemies, 
Luke 19 2 7.  as was showed before, which refuse his government, that he can not reign over them. And again it is written, 
1 joh. 5. 3.  This is the love of God, 
1. john. 2. 4. 5.  that we keep his commandments, and he that sayeth I know god, or I love god, and keep not his commaudements, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Not that we can keep his commandments without all breach or offence. for we are not Donatists as the adversaries slander us: that we should say, we may be without sin, or that the church may be without public offences, or if there fall out some sort of grosser sins, that therefore it should cease to be the church of God. we teach no such doctrine, but if in any Church such gross sins be incurable, and the Church hath not power to redress them, or rebelliously refuseth to redress them, than it ceaseth to be the Church of God, and so remaineth till it repent, & take better order.  
And here cometh in that question to be decided, whether without the discipline commanded of Christ, any assembly or church may be called the church of Christ, M. C. saith, that for want of this discipline, we give all the english assemblies, the black stone of condemnation. How truly he writeth this of us, his conscience is witness▪ for we never said that all the English assemblies do want discipline. Though this matter be sufficiently debated before, yet let us weigh Master Cartwrights answer. H sayeth that faith in Christ is the essence, being, or life of the church: as for discipline it is but accidental, and therefore the Church of God may have her being and life, and be named the church of God, without discipline. what word of God doth he bring for all this? we know in deed that Christ is the life and essence of the Church. For except as branches we abide in him, 
john 15. 6.  which is the true vine, we can bring forth no fruit, we are cast forth as branches, and are to be consumed with fire. Christ is the resurrection and the life. He is the way, the truth, and the life. So it is true, 
john 11. 25.  that Christ is the life of the church, 
john 14. 6.  as for faith it is but the hand, whereby we take hold of this life: As it is written, he that believeth in the son, hath everlasting life, and he addeth upon it, as a trial of faith, 
john 3. 36.  even our obedience to the son, and saith, he that obeyeth not the son, shall not see life, but the wrath of god abideth on him. Now it was proved before, that they which are guilty of such horrible abuses, & so grossly offend by their corrupt and false profession, have not this faith, neither do hold Christ the foundation. But see, how fond & blasphemously Master Cartwright distinguiseth: He will have a dead Christ, or an Idol christ to be the life of the church. For he will join the church to Christ, without the discipline and government of Christ. He putteth asunder the church and the discipline of Christ, and so must ●eedes sunder Christ from his own discipline or government Now Paul calleth this discipline, 
1. Cor. 5. 4.  the power of our Lord jesus christ. So if we sever christ and his power, what is he but a dead christ? Also by his discipline, and government he hath over us, he is our king: as again it is written, 
Hebr. 1. 8.  the sceptre of thy kingdom is a sceptre of righteousness. 
Psal. 45. 6. 7.  So if we sever christ, and his discipline, rule, and government what is he but an Idol christ? If Master Cartwright say, that by the sceptre there is meant nothing else but the power of the word of God, I grant it: as Paul saith I will know not the speech or words of these men, 
1. Cor. 4. 18. 19  but the power: For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power saith he, and in the psalm, The Lord shall send the rod of this power out of Zion. And the weapons of our warfare are mighty through God, as again he writeth. So than if the power of the word to bind & lose, to remit or refaine men's sins, to promise life, and to rebuke and give over to execration be taken from Christ or the church of Christ, what remaineth but an Idol or counterfeit christ, an Idol or counterfeit church? Thus while M C. will have faith in christ to be the life of the church without discipline, he doth leave christ himself without life, & as one that is dead, or turned into an Idol▪ yet further he proceedeth in his absurdities & blasphemies, & saith, that faith only is the essence, being, or life of the church, and that beside faith, nothing is necessary to the very essence and being of the church. Thus be like children which yet through want of discretion, can not have faith, shall be without the essence & life of the church. How corrupt doctrine this is, I need not here stand on it. If he say that by the faith of the parents they have life & essence in the church, the scripture is against him. 
Gene. 17. 7.  For by the promise & the covenant made to the righteous & to their seed are their children reckoned in the church & not by their faith. Therefore the faithful are called by Paul the children of promise. 
Gal. 4. 18.  For we are (saith he) after the manner of Isaac children of the promise, and again to the Romans, the children of the promise are counted for the true seed of Abraham. 
Rom. 9 8.  But that by any man's faith his children or others, should have life & essence in the church, is the same false doctrine we refuted before. For the just shall live by his faith saith Habbakk If then a man shall live by his own faith, 
Hab. 2. 4.  he shall not live by the faith of another. And by baptising into the faith and profession of any, we must understand, that we are baptised to hold the same faith and profession, when we come to discretion, and not to have our life and salvation by an other man's faith, when as yet we have not the same faith ourselves. And if we shall live by faith, 
Rom. 3. 22.  than faith is the means to come by that life, and is not the life itself. Wherefore Christ is the life and essence of the Church, and not faith. Now Christ is made as no christ unto us, except we hold him, and join with him as our anointed King, priest and Prophet. For so the word (Christ) doth signify. And here I demand of M. C. whether the Kingdom, Priesthood, & Prophecy of Christ be of the essence and life of the Church. I am sure he dare not say nay to this: and why then will he have the lords discipline or government, to be but an accident or hangby to the church For by Christ as paul showeth, (that is by the graces of Christ's kingdom, priesthood ● prophecy) all his body, 
Eph. 4. 16.  (that is all his Church) are coupled & knit together by every joint, and so receiveth increase and edifying in God. So take away the kingdom and government of Christ, and there can be no joining, nor coupling together of the church, no offices nor callings in the church, yea no face, or show, or rather no part, sign or token of the church. For these graces do we receive of Christ's kingdom or from his imperial Majesty. And therefore it is written, that when he ascended up on high, (as our triumphant King and Governor) he led captivity captive, 
Eph. 4. 8.  and gave gifts unto men: and again, he ascended far above all heavens, 
jere. 14. 21.  that he might fill all things. 
Ezek. 43.  And wherefore is the church and people of God in so many places, 
Mat. 13. 7. etc.  called the throne of God and the kingdom of God, but only to show that without the discipline and government of Christ therein, it loseth even her essence, life & being in christ. And this M C. is forced to confess, For he saith that the ministry of the word is a part of this discipline, & the obedience of the people is another: & so reasoneth, that, take away all discipline & every part thereof, & there remaineth no church of christ. Thus the truth hath made him to yield in battle, and turned him backward, and yet he will resist as it were going backward. For how backewardly doth he deal in this matter? to say that discipline is not pertaining to the essence of the church, & now for want of discipline, to take away the essence and name of the Church. Again to say, without discipline there may be a church, and now to say that without discipline, there can be no church. So rather than he will be without an enemy, he will fight with a shadow. For now full wisely he doth cut discipline into parts: namely the oversight, rule, and government of such as have charge in the church, and the obedience of the people thereto: which two parts indeed do contain, all the other parts, and therefore very vainly he speaketh of other parts of discipline, as if they might be separate and secluded from these. For he can show none in the church, but either governors, or under government: neither can he show any duty in the church, but only the duties of government or of submission and obedience: neither any work, matter, business, or ministery in the church, but either of charge and oversight, or under charge or oversight. Wherefore take away both government and oversight, & also obedience and submission, and there can be no other part of discipline remaining. For the duties of teaching, exhorting, improving, rebuking &c. also all duties of examining and deciding controversies, of reforming abuses, of relieving and maintaining the afflicted and poor, of separating the unworthy etc. are contained under that part of governing. Also all duties of belief and learning the truth, of reverence, honour, meekness and all kind of service and upright behaviour etc. are contained under that part of obedience and submission. Thus it is manifest, that through want of discipline, there is no natural conjunction of the parts and members of the church together, so that both the head and vital parts are wanting, and all the other parts are wholly and thoroughly either displaced and perverted, or utterly lost and perished. But why doth he not show what part of discipline may be wanting, yea and of those two parts, which he sayeth can not be wanting▪ yet what defect there may be. Indeed it is commanded to forgive a brother, 
Luke 17. 4.  if he sin seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to us, saying, it repenteth me. yea we must forgive, 
Matth. 18 22.  though it were unto seventy times, seven times. But yet Christ giveth no power to forgive, if a brother remain wilful in his sin, yea if it be but a private sin, I am to proceed against him, and am not to cease, till either I have brought him to repentance, or have broken off all fellowship with him, as with a brother. But we must take heed, that they be brethren, and not dogs and scorners whom we rebuke and labour to redress. 
Matth. 18. 15.  For if thy brother trespass against thee, saith Christ etc. then he showeth how to deal and complain for reformation of a brother. 
Prou. 9 7, 8.  But concerning scorners it is written, He that reproveth a scorner, purchaseth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh the wicked, getteth himself a blot: again, Rebuke not a scorner lest he hate thee, but rebuke a wise man and he will love thee. But to be short: All the discipline of the church consisteth herein, first that the church be gathered of the worthy: 
Matth. 10. 11.  as it is written Inquire who is worthy: 
Matth. 7. 6. ●  and again, Give ye not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine. And in jeremy If thou take away the precious from the vile, 
jere. 15. 19,  then shalt thou be as my mouth: let them return unto thee, but return not thou unto them. And in Ezekiel, 
Ezek. 44. 23.  They shall reach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. 
Mala. 1. 13.  And in Malachi the Lord rejected their offerings, because they offered the scrobled, and the lame and the sick and the blind, which figureth the rejecting of our sacraments, when dogs and swine do communicate therein. 
Vers. 7.  When Papists and Atheists, drunkards, Maygamesters, blasphemers, railers, fighters and such like, are presented as sweet bread at the table of the Lord. The second point of discipline is, that the covenant, promises, and Gospel of Christ, and the sacraments of his kingdom, being established among the worthy, then that they keep the covenant & sacraments unpolluted. And for this purpose there are appointed these other parts of discipline: namely that the Church do judge those which are within: for it hath nothing to do, 
1. Cor. 5. 12.  saith Paul, to judge those that are without. The discipline of the church poceedeth against the brethren, that offend, as was showed before, & not against scorners, or careless worldlings. For the lord doth now take us of the gentiles for priests & Levites▪ 
Isa. ●6. 21. 〈◊〉. 44. 7.  as it is written, and as we may not bring into the lords sanctuary strangers, & uncircamcised in heart to pollute his house, that is wicked wretches which have not the lords couen̄at, may not be received into fellowship of the church: so those that are within being fallen to transgression, 
verse. 24.  they shall judge according to my judgements saith the Lord, and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all my assemblies▪ For there is a particular judging & dealing against any in the church, as by particular rebuke, & pronouncing accursed him that grossly offendeth, & there is a general judging of any without the church. 
1. Co●. 6.  For it is written, that we shall judge the angels, And every nation that shall rise up in judgement against the church, 
I●a. ●4. 17.  shall it condemn, this judging is no part of the particular judging we speak of. And here come in, other parts of discipline to be spoken of: namely for private rebuke of the brethren that privately offend, for open rebuke of open sins, & for casting off & forsaking fellowship & brotherhood with gross & open offenders. These parts of discipline, although they are proved & made manifest before, yet because M C. saith that some part of discipline may be wanting, let us see which of them may be wanting and the church notwithstanding have the essence and name of the church. 
Luke. 17. 4.  First Christ hath gieun power to every christian to retain the sins of every brother whom he knoweth to trespass against him, 
Mat. 18.  & not to forgive him, except he see him repent: So that if any person want this power, he is not to be counted a christian. And this power reacheth so far, not only for open but even for private offences, to judge & take any man for a heathen & a publican, if he will not be reform. Now this liberty & power, every christian must hold, or else he is the servant of men, 
1. Cor. 7. 23.  & not of christ. If then a particular christian cannot want it, how shall the whole church be without it, & yet be named the church of christ▪ 
reve. 1. 6.  Every particular christian is a king & a priest unto god, a king because he holdeth the sceptre of god's word, to judge the offenders, a priest because in every place he offereth incense and a pure offering to the 
1. Pet 2. 5. ex●dus. 19● 6.  name of the Lord as it is Malachy. So then he is utterly without the kingdom & priesthood of christ, 
Re●e 2. 26.  if that liberty be denied him, 
Mat. 1. 11.  I mean of judging & rebuking the particular offenders, & forsaking their fellowship if they will not be reform. How much more shall the Church be without this kingdom, & priesthood of christ▪ & so without christ himself, if it want this liberty & power. 
ephe. ●. 7.  Likewise as we showed before every christian hath pour severally to forsake wicked fellowship, 
2. Ties. 3. 6.  & not to company together with wicked brethren. 
2. Tim. 3. 5.  And as by this liberty & power, 
1. john. 1. 6. 7.  they uphold their kingdom in Christ, 
H●●e. 2. 2.  so without it, 
Act. 2. 40.  both they and the whole church do lose their interest in the priesthood & kingdom of Christ, 
1. Cor. 5. 11.  and so are none of his church. For they have not the keys of the kingdom of heaven to bind & lose, to retain or remit men's sins, and therefore what right can they have in the kingdom of christ. 
john. 2. 〈◊〉  If they cannot openly & particularly rebuke, how shall they openly & particularly bind? 
Ma● 16. 1●.  and if they cannot openly & particularly cast out or excommunicate the grosser offender, how shall they bind? For being still retained as brethren in the church, how shall they pronounce them to be bound in heaven? How shall they shut the gates of heaven against those, whom still they keep in the bosom of the church? If M. C. say that a general rebuke, & judging of the wicked is a binding, let him know that the Church hath more liberty & right, particularly to judge those which are within, then generally to judge those that are without. And safely, if it have not power to judge those which are within, it hath no power of judging at all. So that it is manifest, that no part of church discipline can be wanting, but the church doth straightway go to mine thereby. For a confused gathering of all together, was proved to be no church of God▪ Likewise if the covenant of the church, & the sacraments thereof, be broken and disannulled, Master C. granteth that there is no church: and now it is showed that without that power of rebuking and judging those which are within, and of excomunicating those that deserve it, there can be no church of God. As for that his fond answer, that for some default in preaching, and some default in obedience, the discipline of the church may fail and yet be the church, let him know that though some preacher or other person offend, yet doth not therefore the discipline of the church fail or want, except the church be negligent, or wilfully refuse to redress such offences, or is brought into bondage that it can not redress them. And yet also the question is not of some weakness and failing in discipline but a full want and overthrow either of the whole, or of some part thereof. Wherefore that proof they alleadgeby the Corinthians, that they wanted discipline, & yet were the church of God, is false & very vain. For they wanted it not, but were negligent therein. They were not under the bondage of a popish discipline, & power, which denied and withheld the lords discipline. Now negligence was a fault in them, yet not an utter overthrow and failing of discipline. For being rebuked of Paul, they mended this negligence, 
2. Cor. 7. 11.  in so much that their repentance and sorrow for their negligence wrought a great▪ care in them, yea as the text saith, a clearing of themlselues, an indignation, a fear, a great desire, a zeal, a punishing of themselves. Likewise for their abuses in the Sacrament of the Supper, Paul condemneth even the Supper, 
1. Cor. 11. 20.  and sayeth, This is not to eat the lords Supper. And for abusing that Sacrament, many of them were plagued of God, and died. So that although for a time, they turned the Sacrament to be a judgement against them, & the discipline of the church did fail, yet was it not therefore quite overthrown & debarred from them. Also whereas some believed not the resurrection from the dead, 
1 Cor. 15. 34, 35.  it was the ignorance of those which had newly embraced the Christian profession, and not the overthrow of the church discipline. And here is that answered which M. C. allegeth, that Paul calleth the churches of God by the title of the faithful and Saints. For though some fall away unto wickedness, yet by the discipline of the Church the rest do remain as saints. And that title of saints is against Master Cartwright. For if they be Saints and holy, how shall they show forth a wicked and unholy profession, and still be called the Saints and Church of God. 
1. Cor. 1, 2.  Though Paul wrote his Epistle to the Church and Saints at Corinth, yet doth he not thereby call the incestuous person or other gross sinners, the members or parts of that Church. But in the fifth Chapter he calleth the incestuous person a wicked man and not a Saint. 
1. Cor. 5. 13.  As for his title of the faithful, he can not show that Paul useth it, without addition of other words, to show the good profession of that faith: as in that place, (To the Saints faith Paul at Ephesus and to the faithful▪ 
Ephes. 1. 1.  And though the title of the faithful should be used alone, yet must we understand their faith showed by an outward good profession. Here also may that place be answered which they allege out of Paul, 
1. Cor. 11. 28.  Let a man examine himself: and again to the Romans, Let us not therefore judge one another any more▪ 
Rom. 14 13.  but they abuse these places, 
L●ke 6. 43.  as if Paul meant, that we were not to judge men by their fruits, 
Mat. 12. 33.  or the Church had not power to judge those that sin in the Church: 
Mat. 7. 16.  for these things we have proved before, but by judging in that place, we must understand a rash judging or condemning of any, for those deeds or works they do, whereof they can give a good and probable reason Likewise whereas Christ sayeth, judge not that ye be not judged, 
Mat. 7. 1.  he meaneth that we must judge or condemn no brethren as reprobates, or rashly condemn that in them, which is no fault at all, or judge every man to be worse than ourselves, but rather we must judge ourselves to be the chief sinners of all, 
1. Tim. 1. 15.  and yet also keep the lords discipline, of judging and rebuking the wicked, 
1. Tim. 6. 14.  without spot and unblamable. Likewise to examine ourselves, that is our own hearts and consciences, belongeth to ourselves: but we are not thereby forbidden to examine the outward abuses and faults of others. 
Heb. 10. 14.  For it is written, that we are to consider one another. 
Rom. 16. ●7.  Also to mark others diligently, to note others, that we look not every man on his own things, 
2. Thes. 3. 14.  but every man also on the things of other men. 
Phil. 2. 4.  Here also is that question answered of the Dutch Churches in high Germany, which hold the error of transubstantiation▪ For indeed I judge it to be an error, and not an heresy, except they obstinately pursue it with other gross absurdities, as do some heretics, or with sword and bloodshed as do the Papists, and then without question they are not the Church of Christ, but remain in the state of condemnation, till they repent. As for those of our profession, which are withheld from the use of the lords Supper, that question followeth afterward to be answered, and doth nothing at all make against us. Likewise that matter of neglecting circumcision and the passover the space of forty years he shamefully abuseth. For there was no negligence but a necessity and commandment of omitting. For that service of the passover was not to be kept after their coming out of Egypt, save at some special charge from the Lord as Nom 9 2. till they came into the land of Canaan: 
Exod. 12. 25.  as appeareth in Exo 12. 25. and other places. 
Exod. 13. 5.  And it figured also their hasting both out of Egypt and thorough the wilderness: 
Nom. 9 13.  and therefore were they not to keep it ordinarily every year, till they came to the land of their rest. And for this cause also was circumcision omited. For being circumcised, they were fore certain days: by reason whereof, if they had been circumcised, they could not have journeyed after the cloud & tabernacle. So a necessity was laid upon them. 
Nom. 9 21.  For they were to journey with the cloud and tabernacle as in Numbers, Whether the cloud upon the tabernacle was taken up by day or by night. All their journeying was by the commandment of the Lord.  
Now let us come to other of his profess. A city saith he, may be a city, though it have not the walls of a city. And so he reasoneth that jerusalem, was the City of the great King, before Nehe●●●h had builded the walls, whereupon he concludeth that a Church may be the church of God, though it want discipline. How greatly here again doth M C. deceive himself and others. He knoweth that the Temple did figure out and signify the church of God, as well as the city jerusalem. Now as the Temple was no Temple of God, but a ruinous heap, without the walls of the temple, and the foundation of the walls: so the city jerusalem, 
Neh. 2. ●.  was said to lie waste as no city of God, till the walls were builded and the gates reared up: If he require proof of both these, 
Psal. 118. 22.  we show him the Scripture. For in the Psalm, in Isaiah, 
Mat. 21 42  and in Matthew, Christ is set down to be the sanctuary and head corner stone in the building. 
Isa. 8. 14.  And in the Revelation, the twelve Apostles are called the twelve foundations of the wall of the holy city, 
reve. 21. 1●▪ verse. 12.  and the gates the twelve tribes of Israel, meaning all the number of Gods elect. Now therefore let him judge, that seeing the Apostles, and all the Saints of God, are builded in the walls of this city, how it can be the city of God without the walls. Yea he neither doth, nor can bring any word of God, that the walls should signify discipline only, and not rather the gathering and building of all the saints of god, into one spiritual house & city of god. And therefore is there no mention made of any temple or other houses within the city. yea the text saith, that there was none such, but the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the Temple thereof. 
reve. 21. 〈◊〉.  And in the 121. psalm that high commendation of the building of jerusalem, 
Psal. 121. 3.  is expounded in the 87. psalm, wherein it consisted, namely in the building of the walls & gates & therefore he praiseth it, saying, God laid his foundations among the holy mountains, 
Psal. 87. 1. 2. 3.  the lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the habitations of jacob: glorious things are spoken of thee O city of God. 
Psal. 48. 12. 13.  And in the forty and eight Psalm, Compass about Z●on, and go round about it, and tell the towers thereof: mark well the wall thereof. Behold her towers, 
Nehem. 1. 3.  that ye may tell your posterity. And in Nehemiah, the people are said to be in great affliction, and in reproach, because the wall of jerusalem was broken down and the gates thereof were burnt with fire. Wherefore the city jerusalem, was a resemblance and figure of the spiritual jerusalem and Church of God, only by the walls and gates of the city & there execution of judgement in the gates thereof. For in these 3. things is described the joy of David in that Psalm: 
〈◊〉. 1●2. 1, 2, 5.  namely That the people should go into the house of the Lord, that their feet should stand in the gates of jerusalem, and that there were thrones set for judgement. Nay sayeth Master Cartwright, the houses & fair buildings did figure the Church of God, and the walls did figure discipline only. This is his own dream, even an imagination of his own head. For not the houses of the city did figure the spiritual house of God or his city, but the Temple. Neither was the city without the walls any figure, but only by the walls. And therefore doth Nehemiah say in the second Chapter, 
〈◊〉. 2. 5.  That he would build the City, because he meant to build the walls of the City. But let Master Cartwright remember himself, and show any place in the world, that is called a city, and yet hath not the walls of a City. Or an orchard, garden, or close so called, without a hedge, a wall, or some safe enclosing of fensing. Are a clump of fruit trees called an orchard, if they stand open in the field without any fence? or is a fair piece of grass ground named a close, if it be not enclosed. So by his own vain reason he overthroweth himself. And whereas he sayeth that after their return from Babylon the City is called the City of the great king, even before the walls were builded: what proof bringeth he for that▪ It is called a city indeed by Nehemiah, 
Nehem. 2. 3.  but a destroyed and waste City: he meaneth that it had been a City, but now is destroyed and waste, 
verse 5.  and he saith he would build the city, (not that it was now a city, for than it had been builded to his hand) but the use of speech is, that where a city hath been, to call the place and the ruinous heap of stones by the name of the City▪ And so in Ezra, before their return from Babylon, The Heathen King Cyrus calleth the place of jerusalem by the of jerusalem, yet was neither the people of God there, nor the Temple of God. Yea Zion was ploughed like a field, and jerusalem was an heap, 
Ezra 1. 3.  and the mountain of the house, was as the high places of the forest. 
Micah 3. 12.  And being in that case it figured rather the desolation of the spiritual jerusalem, 
jerem. 26. 18.  which in the Revelation is called Sodom and Egypt: and how then could it be the City of God, 
revel. 11. 8.  save only in Name, for that it had been so. Likewise his descanting about a vinyeard is against himself. For there can be no yard or court except it have the walls or fence of a yard or count, and so where no yard is, there may be wines growing, but there can be no vinyeard. And so where discipline is wanting, there may be some graces of God appearing, as knowledge, and an outward subjection to men's laws and to Magistrates, yea there may be Gods secret elect children, and an outward false show of religion and devotion: and yet no true show nor face of an outward and visible Church of God.  
Now Master Cartwright cometh to that point, concerning the dumb minister: of whom as he, so we also have spoken before. But here he proveth the Sacraments, ministered by such, to be God's Sacraments, and that men may receive them lawfully. His proofs are like wind blown out of a bladder. he might rather laugh at them himself, then offer them to others to take view of his folly. His first proof is, they are ministers, but no lawful ministers, and they are ministers, though they be Idol ministers, therefore he concludeth, that though they be Idols and unlawful ministers, yet we may hear then●, and receive the Sacraments of them. He confesseth them to be unlawful and Idol ministers, and yet their ministration or ministry must be good and lawful: This is as much, as if one should condemn a thief and justify his theft. For if they be not messengers, nor ministers from Christ, than their message and ministery is not from Christ, but from the devil. For these be coniugates, an unlawful minister, and his unlawful ministery: a messenger from the devil▪ and his message from the devil: a wicked man to be abhorred and his wickedness to be abhorred. Even so it must needs follow, that a minister being unlawful and of the devil, his action and deeds of ministration, are unlawful and of the devil. 
jer. 23 vers. 16. vers. 21.  And so the Lord reasoneth, that the people should not hear the prophets that prophesied peace unto them, for he had not sent, nor commanded them: as who say, because they were unlawful messengers, therefore their message also was unlawful and to be refused. But Master Cartwright sayeth that though they be unlawful messengers and Ministers, & not of God, yet their message and ministery is of god. For it is not a false or evil message or ministery as was that of the false prophets, but good and necessary for the Church. For that that is of Christ sayeth he, is good, and by their ministery they give us that, that is of Christ, he meaneth the Sacraments and their reading of Common service. And so he concludeth that they are Ministers of good things. Yea and he addeth a further distinction? that to us they are ministers of god, but to themselves or in respect of themselves, they are unlawful ministers. Surely these are trim distinctions to carry him blyndefolde, he can not tell whether. For whether will he wander in his vanities? or how many devilish doctrines will he heap up together? First he sayeth, they are unlawful ministers, and yet ministers of god: then that they are ministers of god, but not lawful ministers of god: Thirdly that they have their calling and allowance by the Church and yet are thrust upon the Church: Fourthly that either such dumb ministers, and their ministery is of GOD: or if they be of the Devil, yet if the Bishop and his officers do authorize them, than the Church doth authorize them, and no man ought to refuse them: fifthly that their reading of service, is to be heard, as being a good thing from christ: sixtly that their sacraments are to be received as good things from Christ: Whereby also it followeth that Christ doth send such dumb, or blind reading ministers to take charge of the people: also that for a need, reading ministers may be in the Church in stead of preaching ministers: Further that the bishops may thrust upon the flock, what Ministers they list, and give them that authority and calling which God can not give them: Also that the people shall be counted God's people and Church, though they be under the devils messenger, and subject to his guiding. How ungodly and foolish doctrine is all this? and yet he heapeth much more unto it, 
Psa. 145. 17  before his letter be ended. It is written that the Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works. If then any Minister be of God how shall he be an unlawful minister? or if he be unlawful, how shall he be of God? If he say a thing may be lawful before men, which before GOD is not so, and therefore that men may take it as lawful before God: Let him remember himself, that he speaketh of unlawful ministers even before men, yea whom he himself knoweth and calleth unlawful. 
Mat. 15. 13. 14.  So that being unlawful ministers both before men, and before God, how shall they be ministers of god? Wherefore they are of the Devil, and plants, which the heavenly Father hath not planted, and therefore shall he rooted up: and christ showeth the way to root them up: namely that we let them alone blind guides, leaders of the blind, and have nothing to do with their guiding and ministery. 
Luke 5. 33.  For christ did gather his disciples apart from the Pharisees disciples, 
Mar. 2. 18.  so that the Pharisees were to have no charge, 
john 3. 25.  nor oversight on Christ's disciples. 
john 9 27, 28.  This appeareth in v●ry many places of the Evangelists. Again he distingui●eth that he is a minister, and leaveth out his words of lawful and unlawful, of god and not of god: So he would fray us with the bare word (minister.) If they be Satan's ministers should we receive them, because they bear the name of ministers: There are prophets also, which come to us in sheeps clothing, 
Acts. 8. 21.  should we receive them, being false prophets, because they bear the name of prophets? 
Mat 7. 15.  Therefore these are vile and ungodly mockeries, wherewith Master Cartwright would delude us: 
●ech. 11. 4, 5. verse 15. 16.  Further he distinguisheth, that to the dumb ministers themselves their ministry is a matter of destruction, 
Nom. 6. 3 9, 4●, 49.  but to the church, it is, he can not tell what good thing, or gracious benefit from Christ. We showed before, that they do good to others, like those foolish shepherds named in Zechary, whom God did raise up in judgement to sell and to slay the sheep. Also like Corah and his company, by whom so many thousands perished. Or like the priests of Baal, 
Ez●●. 343.  or the shepherds spoken of in Ezekiel, which did eat the fat, and cloth themselves with the wool, and slew them that were fed but fed not the sheep: the weak they strengthened not, the sick they healed not, neither bound up the broken, nor brought again that which was driven away, neither sought up that which was lost: but with cruelty and violence do they rule them, as these do by their cannon power and spiritual courts. For they, 
vers● 2●.  the bishops, and their officers are those that thrust with side and with shoulder, and push with their horns all the weak of the flock, till they utterly scatter them abroad. It is a wonder, that any man should speak of any good the blind ministers do. For through their woeful ministery, and through that lamentable bondage of popish discipline, we may well say with jeremy that wickedness is gone forth into all the land. 
jer. 23. 14, 15.  They strengthen also the hands of the wicked, that none can return from his wickedness. They are all unto me saith the Lord as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorah But let us see, what are those things, of Christ, which he saith the dumb ministers can give us. Forsooth the Sacraments and the reading of common service. 
Nom. 16.  Indeed they have gotten the censers of Corah and his company, 
Deut. 12.  and they are made priests of such places and churches, as the Lord as yet doth not choose to put his name there. Wherefore as as we showed before, both their censings and their offerings, that is their prayers and sacraments are rejected of the Lord as execrable things. 
Ezek. 44.  They are those strangers named in Ezekiel and in Numbers, which are not of the Levites nor of the seed of Aaron, but do pollute the lords house, and can not offer the sweet incense and pure offerings, which Malachi speaketh of. 
Mal. 1. 11.  Their Sacraments are stolen and counterfeit badges, 
revel. 13. 16.  and how then should we receive them as marks of the true church of God? They offer the incense of Nadab and Abihu. 
levit. 10. 1.  For their stinted form of service, devised by the bishops, and translated from the massbook, can never be proved to be incense made by fire from the Altar of the Lord. But yet Master Cartwright will justify their Sacraments and reading of service. Let us therefore see to his proofs. 
Mat. 23. ●.  One proof is this, the Scribes and Pharises might be heard preaching true doctrine, therefore the dumb ministers may be heard reading service: a goodly proof, For it was lawful for the Pharisees to be preachers of the truth, and it was a part of their office and ministery: but it is not lawful to be a blind reading minister, neither is it any part of the ministery, to read over such a stinted form of service. Wherefore though I may hear and like of that, which is truly preached, yet doth it not follow, that I should hear, like of, or join with, that which is ungodly, and blasphemously spoken, uttered or done. Again he abuseth that place in Matthew, saying, that it was commanded by Christ to hear the Scribes. There is no commandment given to hear, but to do as they knew the Pharises taught truly. And though by occasion they might hear them teaching truth, yet were they separate as was showed before, from being their disciples: they were not under their charge and ministery, as those are now under the dumb ministers charge, whom Master Cartwright doth justify in hearing them, and receiving the Sacraments of them. He can not show that the Pharises were no Levites nor Priests, and yet offered the sacrifices as the Priests And yet these do minister the Sacrament●● and will be Priests over the people, being neither to be counted brethren, nor christians. And though the Pharises or Scribes had so far usurped, yet should not the people have partaken with them in the sacrifices no more ought the people at this day, to partake in the Sacraments with such blind ministers. But why doth not Master Cartwright perceive, that his own proof is against himself. For if the Scribes and Pharises were to be heard because they preached truth, then are these dumb ministers not to be heard, because they are no preachers. But this proof failing, Master Cartwright prepareth another, namely this. The Scribes and Pharisees, were as unfit and as unlawful ministers, as our reading ministers, and yet might be heard, therefore our reading ministers may be heard. How unfit ministers the Pharisees were, it is after examined. We say not, but that the dumb ministers may be heard. For if standing on the gallows to be executed, they say they would come down, I know we may hear them. But the question whether we may be under their charge and guiding, and so daily and usually hear them, as our spiritual guides, pastors, watchmen for our souls, and ministers in the church. This Master Cartwright can not prove, and therefore his proof serveth for another matter, quite besides the question. Yea if he look well, this proof serveth against him. For the disciples of Christ were not to hear the Pharisees, as being their disciples and under their charge, therefore may not we be under the dumb ministers charge, to hear them as our teachers, and guides in Christ. Another proof he giveth thus: The dumb ministers have a calling by the Church, as the scribes and Pharisees had: therefore we may lawfully hear them and receive them as ministers. In this proof we have these matters to consider whether our dumb ministers have as good a calling as the scribes and Pharisees had. Whether the bishops and their officers that call ministers are to be counted the Church: whether if the church should appoint and receive a dumb minister, he had thereby any whit more authority▪ or were any whit the rather to be received. 
Ezra 7. 6, 11.  It is certain, that Ezra was a Scribe, and a priest also of the sons of Aaron, 
Nehem. 8. 1, 2. 4.  as we may read in the book of Ezra, and Nehemiah. And in other places other Scribes also were mentioned, 
Luke 11. 46.  which were both writers and preachers of the Law and word of God. 
Ezra 8. 16.  And therefore Christ saith, that they sure in Moses seat. 
jerem. 8. 8.  That is, as it is in the 8. of Ezra▪ 
Nom. 3. 6.  They were chosen being men of understanding to preach, 
Exod. 29.  and minister to the people as their office required. 
Mat 32. 35.  Yea by the Priests and Elders & consent of the Congregation were they chosen 
Nom. 8. 9  But dare Master Cartwright say that our dumb ministers are thus chosen and called? or dare he say that they sit in Moses seat? If then he bring it for a good proof, That the Scribes & Pharises were to be heard, because they fate in moses seat, than it is also a good or better proof, That these dumb ministers do not sit in moses seat, and therefore are not to be heard and received as ministers. In the Church and assemblies of the jews, there could be 〈…〉 dumb ministery suffered, as an ordinary office and calling. 
Deut. 33. 10.  For herein consisted their ministery, To teach jaacob the judgements of God and Israel his laws, to put incense before his face, and the burnt offering upon the altar And so the dumb minister can have no office nor calling in the Church seeing there is no such ministery, nor part of ministery, as to be a reading minister. Furthermore if Master Cartwright say, that the Bishops and their officers are the Church, and that therefore the dumb ministers are called by the Church: First it is to be showed, that Master Cartwright can not prove them to be the Church, yea it was proved before, that they are not the Church of God.  
Then also he is against himself herein, for he confessed before, That the dumb ministers are thrust upon the Church, and how then can they be called by the Church: thirdly, if they were called, and then both the manner of calling be altogether blasphemous and wicked and the office whereto they are called, is none of the church offices and callings of what weight or authority shall their calling be? Shall we have strange offices and ministries in the Church, which God hath not appointed? or shall we give any authority or reverence unto them, because men account of them? shall the blasphemy and wickedness of a number, though they be named the Church, make me any whit the more, to receive a dumb minister, because they do wickedly and blasphemously call and authorize him. Nay, I ought not to follow a multitude to do evil. 
Exod. 23. 2.  For it is not as Master Cartwright would have it, that the more which sin in a matter, the less the sin is: but rather it is the more grievous, and more to be abhorred. And Paul giveth this liberty to Tim●thie, That though other men even the Elders and people should choose any unmeet minister, 
1. Tim. 5. 22.  yet he should not partake with them in their sin. And if in the act of choosing, the authority of the church is not to be regarded, when it shamefully abuseth her authority, than also in the wickedness & sin that is wrought by the choice, it is less to be regarded. For the reading ministery is abominable wickedness, and as it first overthrew the Churches of God, 
1. Tim. 3.  and brought in Antichrist, so it is still the door and high way to all ignorance, dissoluteness, and all wicked practices and customs. Wherefore let Master Cartwright lay away his fond distinction that they are ministers, though they be unlawful ministers. For if the reading ministery be no office nor calling appointed by christ, then is it an office of Antichrist: And why then should he stick so much on the word minister, if they be Antichristian and devilish ministers? And what will he make of the Church? It is indeed the house of the living God, the pillar and ground of truth. But Master Cartwright will have it to presume above Christ, and so will make it an Antichrist. For if it ordain strange ministries and offices in the church, which christ and his Apostles never could do nor would do, doth it not presume above Christ? Christ and his Apostles could not thrust, 
Luke 9 5.  no not lawful ministers upon any congregation. 
Mat. 10. 13, 14.  Neither could he command any Congregation or Church to receive unlawful ministers, and take them for their guides. Yet by Master Cartwrightes saying, we may receive such: and if any such be thrust upon us, we must account their ministry to be sanctified, for the Church's sake which calleth them▪ Surely if the Church do usurp and challenge, such a power of ruling, and such a holiness in sanctifying, which christ never had: it becometh the church of Antichrist, and quite overthroweth the kingdom and priesthood of christ.  
But let us see further what M C. sayeth. He pleadeth for the dumb ministers, by comparing them still with the Scribes and Pharises, also with the priests and teachers in the old law, with the chief Priests at Christ's coming, and with unsufficient and unable Magistrates. He will have them to have as lawful a calling and ministery as any of these. The Scribes saith he, taught untruly & were deceived in the chief grounds of religion, & yet were to be heard of the people: therefore our dumb ministers are as lawful ministers as they. Likewise he saith of the priests & of magistrates that some of the priests were dumbedogs, & some false teachers, and some had not so lawful calling, also that some Magistrates are not lawful & sufficient Magistrates and yet neither the Scribes nor the priests nor the magistrates were to be rejected as no ministers nor Magistrates. What true or false doctrine there is in all this, we will show by and by. But grant it true which he saith of the scribes, Priests, and Magistrates: namely that they were so evil, as he sayeth, or taught such false doctrine, yet he himself hath given the answer before, to condemn himself: For he said that the scribes were not to be heard, but in that they taught truth: and that our dumb ministers were to be heard and received so far, as they can give us any thing that is of Christ. Now it is showed that a reading or dumb ministery is not of Christ, therefore we are not to receive or hear such a ministery. Likewise the Scribes when they preached truth, were to be heard and received, therefore these being no preachers, are not to be heard nor received. The same may be said of Magistrates, that what duties they are able and sufficient to do, therein we may receive some good by them, therefore the dumb ministers having no ableness nor sufficiency to that calling, are wholly to be rejected. If he say that the reading of common service is some ableness and sufficiency of a minister, he knoweth well enough that that is no part, nor duty of the ministery. For though it be written That the Levites read in the book of the Law, 
Nehem. 8. 8.  and gave the sense, and cause the people to understand the reading. 
Acts 15. 21.  And again in the Acts that Moses was preached being read every Sabbath: yet we must not thereby understand a bare reading only, neither a reading of a stinted form of service. For the order was, as appeareth in Luke and in the Acts chap 13. 
Luke 4. 17.  to read the Law and word of God and then to preach upon it. 
Acts 13. 15.  And therefore as appeareth in Nehemiah They read in the Book of the Law, and preached the sense and understanding thereof to the people. And therefore in Timothy, 
1. Tim. 4. 13.  Reading, exhortation, and doctrine are joined together. If Master Cartwright do further allege, that the dumb ministers have some ableness or sufficiency to minister the Sacraments, he likewise knoweth that it is no part nor duty of the ministry, 
Deut. 33. 10.  to read a consecration of the Sacraments, 
Eccles. 4. 17.  neither to minister the sacraments, without preaching, 
Mat. 28. 19  and much less without the power and ability to preach. 
Acts 2. 42.  This is manifest in the old Law as in Deuteromie, Ecclesiastes, and in other places. Likewise in New Testament, as in Matthew, Acts and sundry other places. By all which places it is evident, That though preaching may sometimes be without the present Act of ministering the Sacraments, yet the Sacraments might never be ministered but of preachers and with preaching. But now mark how fondly he compareth dumb Ministers to unable or unsufficient magistrates, which should rather be compared to Traitorous and usurping Rebels. For as any usurper were wholly to be rejected and withstood, if he should get from Her Majesty her royal dignity and crown, or lay claim thereunto: So also are these ministers to be rejected, which usurp a kingdom and government in the Church: when as they ought not to be counted brethren, nor members in the Church. It again Master Cartwright do say, that usurping Traitors may give us our right, and we are to take it, at their hands: We answer, that this is the question, whether the reading of service in that manner, and their ministering of Sacraments be right or no. first we showed before, that such Sacraments so ministered, and such a reading of service were execrable things and also none of our right. But if they were our right, yet a man is to take his right from usurping traitors by force of arms, if he be able. Or if he be not able, he should rather lose his right, then do suit and homage to a Traitor. In deed the lords Sacraments are our right, and thanks be to our Lord GOD, we may have them by other means, then by the Dumb ministers. And though we could not, yet we should not take our right on a thief to justify his theeverye. 
john 10. 1.  For these hirelings are thieves and robbers coming in by the window, as it is written. So we should first follow the Law on them, to thrust them out of the sheepfold, and then see if we can get our right For if all such Ministers were excommunicate from among the brethren, we should know the better, both what were our right, and how to come by it. Again Master C. distinguisheth, that to be able to teach is not of the substance of a minister, but only of a lawful minister, also that to be able to judge true judgement is not of the substance of a magistrate, but only of a lawful Magistrate Such like sopperyes as these not worthy the answering, we have answered before. But here again we answer, that the discipline of the Church and of the common wealth are unlike in this, that ungodly men, may be sometimes lawful officers and magistrates in a common wealth: and therefore Heathen Kings, yea Idolatrous kings and princes are lawful Magistrates at this day▪ Otherwise we should condemn our own Kings and Queens, which heretofore have been Popish and Idolatrous, as being no lawful Magistrates: But in the Church of God, this holdeth not. For if any be a wretched liver, or an Idolater, he can neither be minister nor lawful minister in the church: yea he is no part, nor member of the Church. Again we say, that if any be an unlawful minister, he is a Minister quite out of the Church, as we proved before, and then what hath the church to do with him? Master Cartwright will needs have him to be a minister, and we are content: for he shall be a minister, not for the Church, nor to have any meddling in the Church, but for Satan and for the children of Satan. Further we answer according to his manner of reasoning that to avoid idolatry, or to be no Idolater is not of the substance of a minister but of a lawful minister: for he may be a minister though he be an Idolatrous minister. But shall we therefore say that daily massmongers coming openly from the mass, to minister the Sacraments, in the same order that our dumb ministers do, shall be received of the brethren, or that the brethren shall receive the Sacraments at their hands? And yet again we answer that if a man be not a lawful minister, he hath no essence nor substance of a minister: except we say he hath the substance of a devilish minister. For the lawfulness of a minister, and of his ministration, is the essence and substance of a minister, and of his ministering. Paul saith, 
Rom. 4 15.  that where no law is, there is no transgression. He meaneth that because there is a law, therefore the breach of that law, is the essence and substance of sin and transgression. The law saith he is it that causeth wrath: For it maketh sin to be sin. Wherefore as that which is unlawful or against the law of God, hath the being and essence of sin: so it must needs follow, that the lawfulness of anything is the being the essence & substance of the same & therefore also that the lawfulness of ministers is the essence, & substance of ministers. And so we see how vain his distinction is, that a man may have the substance of a minister, & yet be no lawful minister. I would not so readily use such school terms & words, as is essence, substance, & being, if I were not forced thereto by his ungodly subtleties. And surely except god in judgement have blinded his eyes, he may well perceive them, not only to be ungodly, but altogether childish & unlearned  
Now we come to answer other matters, which fall out of the former proofs. As that he saith, the Scribes were altogether deceived in the Messiah. He might rather say, they were ignorant, in some mysteries of the Messiah, than all together deceived. And so Paul saith of them, That had they known, 
1. Cor. 2. 8.  they would not have crucified the Lord of gloríe. And Peter also saith That the people did it of ignorance, 
Act. 3. 17.  as also did their governors. Yea the Apostles themselves were a long time ignorant in some mysteries of the Messiah. And Christ testifieth that many Prophets and righteous men desired to see and hear those things which the Apostles saw and heard, 
Mat. 13. 17.  but did not see nor hear them. 
Luke 10. 24.  Yea saith Peter, 
1. Pet 1. 12.  The Angels desire to behold these thing concerning the sussering and glory of Christ: 
1. Tim 3. 16.  And therefore Paul calleth this a great mystery, that God should be manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of Angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, and received up in glory. The Scribes and Pharises knew that the Messiah should come, 
Mat. 22. 4●.  that he was the holy one & anointed of God, 
john 4 25.  as appeareth by their answer to Christ. The woman of Samaria knew that he should be the anointed Prophet, and tell them all things. All the Priests and Scribes knew that he was borne King of the jews, 
Mat. 2. 6.  that he was the governor and high shepherd of Israel that should feed the people. They knew the prophecies that were of him, that are written in Daniel, 
Dan. 7. 14.  in Micah, 
Mith. 4. 7.  in Isaiah, 
Isa 7. 14. etc.  in jeremy and the rest. 
joh. 6. 14. 15.  Both they and the people could readily rehearse such prophecies at their finger's end, 
joh. 12. 34.  as where he should be borne, whose son he was, what was his office, what great works he should do, what salvation he should work to his people, what sufferings he should endure, and what should be his glory. But Master Cartwright sayeth, They knew not that jesus was the son of God, neither how the Godhead and manhood should be together as in one. I answer that no more did the Apostles, for a time: neither can any man search this mystery to the depth. For Thomas and Philippe knew not, 
john 14. 5, 8.  as we may read in john, How Christ should ascend into heaven to his father, and come again, that the Father should be in the son and the son in the Father. Peter also and the rest, 
johu 16. 17.  were ignorant in such mysteries as appeareth in other places. 
joh. 13. 37.  Yea they dreamt of a worldly kingdom and a worldly deliverauce, 
Luke 24. 21.  which should be by Christ, 
Acts 16.  as is manifest in the Acts and in Luke. Wherefore though they believed not that that jesus which was then come in the flesh, was the Son of God, yet they believed and knew the prophecies. Namely that he was to be called Immanuel, that is God with us. Again they knew another prophecy of Isaiah, That he should be called by Name, Wonderful, 
Isa. 7. ●4.  Counsellor, ●he mighty God etc. that he should sit upon the throne of David, 
Isa 9 6.  and upon his kingdom, and his government should have none end. They knew of whom that prophecy was given in the fourscore and ninth Psalm, 
Psal 89. 26.  He shall cry unto me 
Psal. 2. 7. 12. , thou art my Father, my God, and the ro●ke of my salvation, also I will make him my first borne, higher than the Kings of the earth. Therefore they could not be ignorant, that the Christ was the Son of God. They knew also that they were to trust in the Son, as it is written, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. K●sse the Son lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way, when his wrath shall suddenly burn, Blessed are all that trust in him. So they well knew that as his wrath was destruction, so to trust in him, was blessing and salution. sTherefore it is not truly said, that they were altogether deceived in the Messiah. Rather it is true that they were ignorant but in these two points. First, 
joh. 6. 51.  how that particular man being so poor despised 
joh. 10. 3●. , and afflicted, should be the Messiah, and secondly how he being man should be God also, and come down from heaven, to be Manna for the people. So then, so long as they held the general faith and belief, concerning the Messiah, and were ignorant, whether that particular man was the Messiah, I say this ignorance for the time was no open overthrow of any ground of Religion. For the Apostles were commanded not to preach Christ particularly to be the Messiah, 
Mat. 16. 20.  till after his resurrection. And the faith of the holy Fathers before time sufficed to salvation, though particularly they knew not Christ, 
Heb. 1●. 13. 39  neither received the promises, as sayeth the text, But saw them a far off, and believed them, and received them thankfully. Whereas the words are, that they received not the promises, and yet received them thankfully, it is meant that they received not the particular performance of those promises in Christ, but only the bare promises that were afterward to be fulfilled. In this faith they died▪ sayeth the text, 
verse 3●.  and yet no doubt they were saved. Therefore it was not this particular ignorance that condemned the Pharisees, but their froward refusing of a further knowledge. If Master Cartwright say that they being so froward, yet the faithful did join with them, it is manifest to the contrary. 
Acts 2. 40.  For the holy Ghost commanded them to save themselves from that froward generation: and so they did. For they joined with the faithful only, 
Acts 5. 13.  and of the other sort, sayeth the text, meaning them which believed not, durst no man join himself to them. And the man whom the Pharisees did cast out, 
john 9 35.  or excommunicate, chr●st took him unto him as his disciple. Whereby it is manifest that Christ both despised and condemned all communion in the Church, with such of them as were persecutors.  
Wheseas Master Cartwright sayeth, that the Scribes and Pharises taught justification by works, he hath granted before, that preaching false doctrine, they were not to be heard: and therefore the dumb ministers, being no preachers at all, are not to be heard. But if they taught that doctrine, yet they taught but a true doctrine, except they taught it as our Papists do at tthis day. For the Scripture sayeth. That the man that shall do the works of the law, shall live in them, 
Gal. 3. 12.  or have life by them. 
Rom. 10. 5.  So then he that can keep the Law, 
Ezek. 20. 11.  without breach of the law, 
Deut 30. 12.  shall be justified by the Law. But Master Cartwright can not prove, that it was a common doctrine among the Pharisees, that any man could keep the Law, without breach thereof. Yea there is proof to the contrary. For the chief Priest did once every year offer a sin offering, to make an atonement for himself, for his house, 
levit. 16. 6, 21.  and for all the people. 
H●b. 9 ●.  Likewise were sundry other offerings and sacrifices observed, 
exod. 30. 10.  both for the sins of the priests, and of the people: which doth plainly prove, that by one common doctrine they acknowledged all to be sinners, and to have need of the grace and mercy of God. What then is to be meant By those heavy burdens, 
Luke 11, 46.  which they laid on men's shoulders. 
Mat. 23. 4.  Master Cartwright sayeth, They were the burdens of the moral law, that is, the duties of righteousness, which all men perpetually aught to observe and do. Surely this burden, both Christ himself, and all the Apostles and prophets do lay on us more straightly than ever did the Pharisees. For what straight commandments doth Christ give, 
Mat. 5▪ ●9. etc.  Against unadvised anger, 
Mat. 5. 28.  reproaching, offences, against lust of the heart, wanton looks, and all occasions of sin. Also against swearing, against revenge, against hatred, against hypocrisy, against distrustfulness, and a number such like. And he threateneth in the fift of Matthew, That for breaking the least commandment, 
Verse 19  a man shall be thrust out of the kingdom of God. And how often is the burden of the Lord, the burden of the Lord, repeated in the Prophets? wherefore that burden or yoke is rather meant, which is named in the Acts, That they tempted God to lay a yoke on the disciples necks, 
Acts 15. 10.  which neither they, nor their fathers were able to bear. This burden was the ceremonies of the old Law, which were more intolerable to others, then to the Scribes and Pharises. For they being most of them Priests and Levites, were not to bring their tithes, first fruits, and offerings to jerusalem, as did others, from all quarters round about. For they dwelled at, or about jerusalem, especially those whom Christ rebuketh, or else came to jerusalem to minister in their course. And they took tithes and paid none, 
levit. 18. 29.  save only the tenth part of the tithes that were brought them. They did very straightly look to their tenths, and to all cleansings, purifyings, vows and offerings etc. for they were their living and maintenance. Wherefore it being a great trouble and burden to others, to come from all places of the world, to jerusalem every year, as the Law than did bind them, also to pay their vows and their tenths and first fruits, and to observe their purifyings etc. and no trouble at all to the Scribes which kept at jerusalem, no marvel though Christ say they laid heavy burdens upon other men's shoulders, but would not touch them, themselves with the leact of their fingers. For there being an hundredth occasions in the year, 
levit. 15. 12. 13, 14 etc.  whereby the people might become unclean, 
Colos 2. 21.  as by touching, 
Nom. 19 11, 12, 13. etc. 16.  tasting, 
levit. 5.  handling, 
Rom. 9 32.  by the death of any that should die by them by diseases, by ignorances and escapes etc. they were to be cleansed by the sprinckeling water, and to bring their offerings to jerusalem. But Master Cartwright might have alleged a more likely proof than these, out of the Romans: namely That Israel sought not righteousness by faith, but as it were by the works of the Law: for they have stumbled at the stumbling stone. For answer hereto, we showed before, that the Israelites made a profession of their faith in the Messiah, even till the time, that he plainly showed himself: and then they rejecting him, and yet believing that he was still to come, their faith became as no faith: they believed in a Messiah which was to come, but they stumbled at him which was come. And so he was unto them that stumbling stone, and rock of offence. And so this word (as,) or (as it were) is well added of Paul. For he meaneth, that their doctrine and profession, was not openly nor directly to seek righteousness by the bare Law, but by their rebellion against the Messiah that was come, they did as much and as they term it, indirectly. So as it were they sought righteousness by the Law, when they kept the ceremonial law, without the Christ that was come, though not simply without the Christ they looked for▪ yea they ●eleeued that the ceremonies did still offer and represent Christ unto them, & so made profession that to keep the ceremonial law, was to keep their faith and belief in Christ But they having refused Christ come already, and christ having abolished that law, they might well be said to seek righteousness without faith in christ. Thus it is manifest that the doctrine & sacrifices of the jews was to have righteousness and atonement by Christ, whom their sacrifices did signify: but their deeds and practice in refusing Christ, was as much, as to seek righteousness by the law. Now those which refused christ, 
Acts 5. 13.  and believed not in him, 
Acts 2. 40.  were utterly separate as was showed before from the communion and fellowship of the church. And therefore this matter is altogeter against him. 
Luke 18. 9  As for that place of luke, he abuseth it too much: for the parable of a pharisee, which speaketh of matters, as though they were, when in deed they were not, he allegeth for proof of all the Pharisees doctrine. First, the fault of one pharisee if he had been faulty, can not prove them all faulty: then also the parable of a fault, doth show it to be no fault committed, but imagined or supposed, as if it were committed. thirdly Christ in that place, mindeth not to rebuke any doctrine of the Scribes and Pharisees, but as the text sayeth, he spoke a parable unto certain, which trusted in themselves, that they were just, and despised others. None are named to teeche any such doctrine, but certain are rebuked for trusting in themselves, wherefore the like proof to this, might I allege against him: namely that very many in England both preachers, and others do trust in their riches, or power, or wisdom or good works etc. Therefore the preachers in England do teach men to trust in themselves. But as this proof is fond, so the conclusion that followeth is according▪ For he concludeth that the dumb ministery is as lawful and good, as the ministery of the Scribes: which taught untruly, saith he, in the chief grounds of religion. Although he cannot prove such untrue doctrine, yet how doth it follow, that their ministery, which faileth in all points, should be as good as theirs, which faileth but in some points. For the dumb ministers we proved, to have no part nor work in the ministery, And the Scribes he confessed before to sit in Moses seat, to teach true doctrine, to have a calling by the Church. Again they must needs edify more, which preach much truth, than they which are no preachers at all. But the Scripture is plain, that if any preach much truth, and yet do preach heresies withal, they are to be avoided: as it is written, 
Tit. 3. 10.  Reject him that is an heretic, 
Mat, 18.  after once or twice admonition. And though the Church is to admonish such, yet if it will not or can not, than any man particularly hath this liberty to admonish, except for his scornfulness and obstinacy he be unworthy. And then we are forbidden to receive them to house, 
2 joh. 10.  or to bid them God speed. 
Rom. 16▪ 17.  And how then shall we take them for our guides and pastors in the Church, or say (Amen) to their prayers? And here followeth that untruth to be refuted, which he addeth in these words, that the true Prophets are never found to have forbidden the people to come to the sacrifice of the false prophets, 
Isa. 56. 10.  and of the priests that were dumb dogs, neither to bring their sacrifices unto them. First even that place of blind watchmen and dumb dogs, which he quoteth amiss, is against himself. 
Hag. 2. 13▪ 14.  For there was a Law, that the priests being vn●●tane, they might neither touch nor eat of the holy things: if they did, 
levit. 22. 5, 6.  than those things were polluted. 
Nom. 6.  Now to drink wine or strong drink was a pollution both of the Nazarites and Priests: 
levit. 10.  of the Priests I say, 
Malal. 1, 7.  when they came into the Tabernacle of the congregation to offer sacrifice. 
Isa 52. 11.  How then should the people partake in the Sacrifices with Priests that were common drunkards. 
Nom. 19  For the people are commanded not to touch any unclean thing: 
levit. 22.  and therefore those sacrifices being unclean, how should the people have any thing to do with them? Now such drunkards were those dumb dogs which he nameth, as is there mentioned: they were greedy dogs, which said, Come, I will bring wine, 
vers. 11. 12.  and we will fill ourselves with strong drink, and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant. Wherefore being such, how could they put difference, as it is commanded in Leviticus, Between the holy and the unholy, and between the clean and the unclean. 
levit. 10. 10.  And how then should not all their sacrifices be polluted? There be maplaces which show, that the priests polluted themselves, and the holy things: as in Ezekiel, Her priests defile mine holy things, 
ezek. 22.  they put no difference between the holy and profane, neither discern between the unclean and the clean, and in Hagga●, 
Hag. 2. 15.  that which they offer here is unclean: 
Mal. 1.  and in Malachi, Ye offer uncteane bread upon mine altar etc. Also in sundry places, as is quoted before, commandment is given not to touch any unclean thing: Wherefore it is a flat commandment even to all the people, not to touch those polluted sacrifices of the Priests, not to communicate nor partake with them therein. Therefore in his own place quoted out of Isaiah, 
Isa. 56. 9  is that terrible judgement pronounced both against priests and against peeople, though only the sin of the priests or watchmen is named. The words are these, All ye beasts of the field come to devorr, even all ye beasts of the forest. And then follow these words, their watchmen are all blind etc. as who say, that the people, because they did partake with such watchmen, they should also perish with them▪ If Master Cartwright say, the pollutions we speak of, were by Idolatry: let him know that Malachi spoke to those, which were no Idolaters, which also had a general reformation from Idolatry: Likewise Haggai prophesied in a time of reformation, and spoke to those which were no Idolaters. And Ezekiel in that Chapter, mentioneth no Idolatry, but rebuketh other wickedness, as it were severing it from Idolatry. For in the next Chapter, he toucheth their sin of Idolatry more particularly. And to those that accounted so much of the Temple, and of the sacrifices, as Master Cartwright doth of his Churches and Sacraments, 
Isa. 66. 3.  Isaiah saith thus, The heaven is my throne saith the Lord, and the earth is my footstool, and so he proceedeth to rebuke their vain brag of the Temple, and then cometh to their sacrifices, saying, He that killeth a bullock, is as if he slew a man, he that sacrificeth a sheep, as if he cut off a dogs neck: he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swines blood: he that remembreth incense, as if he blessed an Idol: by which words it is plain that he rebuketh even those, that detested Idols, and swines blood etc. and telleth them, that their sacraments are no sacraments, they are unclean and polluted, as the most vile filthiness, which they themselves abhorred. If he say, that yet to the godly in those days, the sacrifices were lawful and good, I answer that the godly had no meddling with such wicked men, nor with their sacrifices. For in the second verse after he speaketh thus to the godly, 
Verse 5.  Hear the word of the Lord, all ye that tremble at his word, your brethren that hated you, and cast you out for my Names sake, said, let the Lord be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy and they shall be ashamed. So then there was a great separation between the righteous and the wicked in those days: in so much that the righteous forsook all fellowship in their sacrifices, and the wicked cast them out from among them. If Master Cartwright say that the righteous forsook not their sacrifices, but were cast out from them, 
Isa. 59 15.  it is answered in another place That while they refrained from evil, they made themselves a prey to the wicked. So then the cause why they were cast out was, because they would not partake with the wicked in their wickedness. If Master Cartwright say that that was for other wickedness, but not for their refusing to partake in the sacrifices, It is, 
1. Sam. 2 17.  said in Samuel That for the wickedness of the priests, men abhorred the sacrifices. If he say again, that they did evil to abhor them, he can not prove it: & it is evident that they were of the better sort that did so. For in Malache it is written, that they which feared the Lord, spoke every one to his neighbour, 
Mal. 3. 16. 17, 〈◊〉.  concerning the abuses and wickedness of those days: and the Lord showeth the badge and mark of all his flock and people, namely that they should return & discern between the righteous and the wicked: between him that serveth God, and him that serveth him not: As who say, that every one of the righteous had liberty and were commanded, to have no communion with the wicked in the Church: and how then should they be joined with them in the nearest communion, 
〈◊〉. 3 4.  namely in the Sacraments. And in the same Chapter it is prophesied, That the offerings of judah and jeerusalem should be acceptable to the Lord, as in the old ●yme, 
Mal. 1. 10.  and in the years afore, 
Mal. 2. 8, 9, 10, 13.  and that was, when the sons of Levi (which figured all the righteous should bring offerings unto the Lord in righteousness. For he showed in the Chapters before, that while open and gross wickedness was incurable among them, both the priests and Levites broke the covenant, and also the people, & the offerings were no more regarded, neither received acceptably at their hands. 
1. Sam. ●.  As for the sacrisices of Elkanah and his wives, they were offered by the ministery of Eli, as appeareth in that place, and not by his wicked sons. Now Elie was rather negligent, in correcting his sons, than a gross transgressor, and therefore might Elkanah the rather partake in the sacrifices with him. But we read in the Psalms, 
Psal. 15. 4.  That a vile person is contemned in the eyes of righteous: how then shall a righteous man, receive the Sacraments with such, as with brethren in the Church? David prayeth that he might not commit wicked works, with men that work iniquity, 
Psal. 1 41, 4.  and that he might not eat of their delicates: and how then would he eat of their sacrifices, which are the chiefest delicates. If he say, that David would not eat common bread with such, it is evident that he daily did so, in the house of Saul. And this matter is before made plain. And in the proverbs it is written, They that forsake the Law praise the wicked, 
pro. 28. 4.  but they that keep the Law set themselves against them. How shall they set themselves against them, when they join with them as brethren in the Sacraments. judah was said to defile the holiness of the Lord, because some in judah did marry the daughter of a strange God: yea and this was counted a sin, transgression, 
Mal. 2. 〈◊〉. Ezr. 9 1. Nehem. 9  and abomination committed by all Israel and judah, and jerusalem, though some only had married such women. Wherefore were they all guilty of transgression, but because they did not, or would not redress such wickedness. For it had been the duty of every one, as appeareth in Ezra and Haggai, to have offered no oblations, nor to have partaken with any such in the sacrisices, till such open wickedness, had been taken away. 
Hag. 2. 15.  Otherwise Haggai would not have said, that all the works of their hands, and that which they offered there was unclean: neither would Ezra have rend his clothes, nor plucked off the hear of his head, and of his beard, nor have said that they all were before the Lord in their trespass, and therefore could not stand before the Lord because of it. And surely their sin of marrying strange wives, did but figure out our sin of mingling and intermeddling the Churches: For the daughters of Antichrist, I mean those wicked prelate's & popish officers are yet married to our churches: The papists & wicked men are thrust into our churches to receive the sacraments with us. Their discipline is the nurture & lady mistress over our churches. If M. C. ask what proof we have, that their marriage, I mean of the jews, was any figure or Ceremony, let him read that of Paul to the Ephesians, where Paul calleth marriage a secret or mystery, 
Eph. 5. 32.  and showeth there, that marriage was a sign or figure of the joining together of Christ and his Church: 
Song. 6 8. revel. 21. 9  also in the song of Solomon this is manifest, and in the Revelation and sundry other places. David showeth with whom the godly did partake in the sacrifices, when he saith, I have not haunted with vain persons, neither kept company with the dissemblers, I have hated the assembly of the evil, and have not companied with the wicked, and then follow these words, I will wash mine hands in innocency o Lord and compass thine altar. 
Psal. 26. 4.  Which words do teach us, that when we receive the sacraments, we can not wash our hands in innocency, except we receive them apart from the wicked. For the order of the jews was to partake in the sacrifices, family by family, as we may read in sundry places. And therefore they might more easily avoid the company of the wicked. And the jews contended against Peter, 
〈…〉.  because he went in to men uncircumcised, 
Act. 1● 3.  & had eaten with them, which showeth how strait they were, for avoiding all company with the wicked. It is lawful indeed to eat with Publicans and sinners as Christ also did, but yet to eat the lords supper with opon unrepentant & 
Mark 2. 15.  wretched persons is not lawful. For as I may not offer mine own oblation, 
Mat. 5. 23.  when I remember that a brother hath aught against me, 
Mat. 9 13.  much less may I partake in another man's offering, 
Hose 6. 6.  when I have aught against him. 
Mat. 18. 15.  Yea mercy and pity in seeking to reform him is preferred before sacrifice. So that, except he be obstinate and a scorner, I am gently to admonish him, and if he be yet hardened in his sin, I am as Jude saith, 
Jude ●3.  to save him with fear, pulling him out of the fire▪ what is this fear which should save him, but to make him afraid, by sharper rebukes, and refusing to partake with him in the Sacraments. For he will be afraid of nothing, so long as I take him for a brother, and join with him in the sacraments. But this is strange that Master Cartwright sayeth, that the true prophets did not forbid the people, to communicate with the false prophets in the sacrifices. For commandment is given, 
Deut▪ 13. 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  not only not to communicate with false prophets, 
Deut. 1●. 2.  but even to kill them, 
Luke 17. 23.  and our hands to be first against them. 
Zechn. 13. 3.  yea though they were our brethren, 
Gal. 1. 8.  or our own children, or the wife that lieth in our bosom, or our friend, which is as our own soul: yet our eyes may not pity him nor show mercy unto him, saith the text. If Master Cartwright say that this was commanded for Idolatrous prophets, why then did he not make that exception. But we have showed before, that for heresy also, the false prophets are not to be bidden God speed, and are utterly to be avoided. yea they are to be put to death as well as the other, 
Deut. 18. 20.  as again it is written in Deuterononie 18. 20. And it is testified in Numbers, 
Titus 3. 10.  against the people, 
2. john 10. 〈◊〉.  that they should make them fringes, 
Rom. 16. 1●.  that when they looked upon them, 
Nom. 15. 39  they might remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, and that they sought not after their own heart, and after their own eyes, after the which they went a whoring▪ which words do teach us, that all heretics and false prophets do go a whoring after their own hearts, and are as evil, 
jerem. 23. 16.  as Idolaters. 
Deut. 17. 12.  And wherefore is it commanded, 
Gal. 1 8.  that the man which hearkeneth not to the voice of the high Priest, (which ●igureth the voice of Christ in his Church) should die? which words do show, That false prophets that will not be reform, are to be ●ad in execration and avoided of men. And how then should the people partake with them in the sacrifices. Yea the jews had that custom, ●s it appeareth from their forefathers, 
john 9 22, 34, 35.  and from the former Prophets, To excommunicate the fals● Prophet's and those that believed them, and therefore they did wickedly excommunicate the blind man, that believed in christ. And the custom of punishing false prophets, 
jere 29. 26.  is alleged in jeremy, though wickedly and by a false prophet. And whereas it is commanded in jeremy, 
Zech. 13. 6. jere. 23. 16. Ie●●● 27. 9 14, 15● 16, 17, 18  That the people should not hear the words of the false prophets, is it not also a commandment, that they should not partake with them in the sacrifices? For the sacrifices and sacraments are but a seal to the word that is preached. So the false prophets having a false word and a false message, if the people should partake with them in the sacraments, they did thereby seal unto their false message, as if it were true.  
Again that any dumb dogs, which could not bark did minister the sacrisices, Master Cartwright can not prove. 
Deut. 33. 10.  yea before we have proved the contrary, 
Eccle. 4. 17.  For the sacrifices were always ministered as is showed before, 
Levit, 1. 4.  by Priests that could preach and did preach. 
Chap. 3. 2.  The occasion for which the sacrifice was offered, was showed before. The sins of those that brought the sacrifice, was confessed over the head of the Sacrifice etc. All these things are manifest in the old Law. Indeed there were dumb dogs, among the priests (for there were divers cities, which belonged to the Priests only) yet none snche being able, 
Chap. 4 4.  nor using to minister the sacrifices, 
Mal. 2. 7, 8.  we speak not here of Idolatrous sacrifices) I say it is folly to imagine▪ that the people did bring their sacrifices to such. But yet if they did bring, we have proved before that they ought not to have done so.  
If Master Cartwright say that the Church indeed might refuse the false prophets and put them from the sacrifices, but not every particular man in the Church: I answer that the question is not of forbidding and debarring from the sacrifices, but of withdrawing ourselves from wicked companions in the sacrifices. And so it followeth that if the whole Church ought not to communicate with such in the sacrifices, than no part nor member of the Church ought to communicate: and if the whole Church do sin and commit wickedness by communicating with such: then if any amongst them will refuse to communicate, they shall do well, and shall not sin thereby. That the whole Church ought not to communicate, but to cast out such from amongst them, it is proved before. 
Phil. 1. 17, 18.  But here is that place of Paul to be answered, which the adversaries lay against us: which is that some preach Christ of envy and strife, and some also of good will, and Paul rejoiceth that Christ is preached all manner ways. By which words they would gather, that we may communicate in the Church with false teachers, false prophets, heretics, and ungodly wretches. How shamelessly they gather this, 
Phil. 3. 2.  even Paul in the same Epistle answereth them: for he biddeth them beware of dogs, beware of evil workers: beware of the concision. Would Paul have dogs and evil workers to communicate in the Church? Nay doth he not call them concision from the Church: meaning that if they preached circumcision, they must needs be cut off from the Church, and others also with them. And so their circumcision, should rather be concision, that is a cutting and renting of the Church in sunder. Paul is so far from rejoicing in such preachers, 
Verse 18. 19  that in the eighteenth verse he giveth warning of them, with weeping tears, and calleth them enemies of the cross of Christ, belligods, proud and worldly men, and appointed to damnation. 
Gal. 5. 12.  And Paul would not only not suffer the church to communicate with such, as is largely proved before, but wisheth they were even dead and destroyed which so did disquiet the church. What is then to be meant by Paul's joy, that Christ was preached all manner ways? Surely this, that so the church and the discipline thereof were kept upright, we need not care for the enemies thereof. yea and if in the church also, the doctrine of hypocrites do more good; then their secret faults can do hurt, we are therein to rejoice. For Paul speaketh of the envy and contentious mind of such preachers, and not of any gross wickedness that broke forth by them. Further if some be deceived in doctrine, and be otherwise minded then the truth is, 
Phil. 3. 15.  God shall reveal the same unto them sayeth Paul: he meaneth so long as they are weaklings and not obstinate enemies. For ignonorance, so long as it is not a sotted nor wilful ignorance, nor joined with other gross wickedness, is to be borne with. But if any man abuse his ignorance so, 
M●t. 5. 19  that he breaketh but the least commandment, and teacheth men so, as Christ hath told us, he shall be called the least in the kingdom▪ of heaven: that is, he shall be clean cast out of the kingdom or if any man by his ignorance or false doctrine be contentious, we have no such custom, saith Paul, neither the Churches of God. Yea the custom of the Church is▪ 
1 Cor. 11. 16. Rom. 16. 17.  as it is written again, To mark those diligently, which cause division amongst us, contrary to the truth we have learned▪ and to avoid them. How then should Paul rejoice in contentious preaching? Surely as Paul rejoiced, so Christ desired to have contention in the world. Contention I say in the world, 
Luke 12 49, 50, 51. Mat. 10. 34.  but not in the Church. For I came not sayeth Christ to give peace on earth, but rather debate. I am come, saith he, to put fire on the earth, and what is my desire if it were already kindled? For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father against the son, and the son against the father etc. Now there is a lawful joy in this contention, not that men should be so wicked, neither that such contention should be among the true professors, but that the warfare against wickedness is begun, and that the truth worketh and prevaileth thereby: This was Paul's joy, and this should be our joy, 
1. Cor. 11. 20.  if men in the world fall out, contend, and disagree about the Gospel: for than shall the truth be sifted and bolted out, and the Church of Christ shallbe builded, and grow the more mightily. But Paul discommendeth contention in the Church, and saith, that when they come together into one place, with such dissension among them, this is not to eat the lords Supper. And here also is that place answered, that some men did build hay or stubble in the spiritual building, 
1. Cor. 3. 13, 14. 15.  & so their work cannot abid the fire of God's word, but shall burn, yet they shallbe safe themselves Paul thereby rebuketh their vain eloquence & other infirmities in preaching, as being but ha●e and stubble that shall burn, but they themselves being purified from such infirmities as it were by fire, shall be safe. yea and though some be false apostles, 
2. Cor. ●. ●.  yet if they work so deceitfully, and so cunningly transform themselves, that none can prove them to be obstinate false teachers, nor charge them with open gross wickedness, they are to be suffered as brethren in the church. But it is bevere sufficiently proved that if any be an obstinate heretic, or an open wicked wretch, he is not to be suffered.  
Again the adversaries do set the practice of the Apostles and brethren against us, 
Act. 1. 224.  which did communicate, as they say, in the offerings and sacrifices of the wicked jews and persecuting priests. 
Mat. 8. 4.  And Master Cartwright bringeth in Christ, who commanded the leprous man, purged from his leprosy, to show himself to the priest, and to offer his oblation. To them both we answer, that neither the Apostles & brethren did communicate with the wicked jews and persecuting priests, neither also was the leprous man commanded to communicate in that manner. For they were of the brethren, as is plain in the text, with whom Paul did contribute in that matter of purifying. And it is written, that a great company of the Priests, were obedient to the faith. 
Act. 6. 7.  And therefore no doubt of it, the Apostles made choice of the priests, as they did of those four brethren, with whom Paul did contribute & other priests besides the high priest might accomplish the common service of the sacrifices, 
Heb. 9 6, 7.  Hebrews 9 If they say that the sacrifices and oblations were sanctified in the name of the wicked high priests, we deny it: For the believers did know that Christ the high Priest was come already, and therefore in his name they took the sacrifices to be sanctified, and not in the name of the other priests. Moreover it is manifest, that they did not communicate, neither offer any offering, but rather that they should have done it, and were letted by the uproar before the days of purifying were ended. 
Acts 18. 18.  And it seemeth that Paul knew by the spirit and by the prophecies that went on them, 
Acts 2●. 22. 23.  that such an uproar should fall out, 
Acts 21. 11.  and therefore also knew that the offering should be letted. If here again they object, that the sacrifices themselves, were fulfilled in Christ, and also abrogate, and yet for the church's sake were tolerated, I ask them what they would gather hereby, or what vantage they would take against us? Forsooth they would justify thereby a tolerating of our horrible abuses and disorders. But how can they, by those things which God commandeth, warrant those things which God never commanded. Again they are foully deceived, as touching the ceremonial law. First because they think the accomplishing or fulfilling of the ceremonial law, to be a present and utter abolishing thereof, without a certain testimony and preaching to the people, that it is abolished. Secondly for that they make no difference between the law disannulled: and the forbidding thereof, being disannulled, also between the act and manner of abrogating the law, & the law already abrogated. Also because they will have the new law stand in force, before it can be duly proclaimed and received in stead of the old. And so to the Hebrews it is written, that the old testament being disannulled, 
Heb. 8. 13.  is ready to vanish away▪ whereby it is meant, that it could not at once be taken away. It was accomplished & fulfilled in Christ, yea it was also abolished in Christ as the head, yet by degrees and measure it was abolished and taken from the body. wherefore it was vanishing▪ and yet not utterly vanished▪ 
H●b. 3. 7. Psal. 95. 7.  It stood in some force, because the new testament, was not yet sufficiently proclaimed and preached to the people. And therefore it is said. 
Heb. 4, 7.  To day if ye will hear his voice. By these words, To day, he appointed a certain time, saith the Apostle, & so he showeth that time to be appointed for receiving the further & better promises, also a better testament & a better profession, than was the former. So that we see it was lawful for the jews to hold still their ceremonies & sacrifices, 
Heb. 7. 18.  till they might surely know the first commandment to be disannulled, because of the weakness thereof. For what faithful subject will forsake the old laws of his prince, till he be assured that new laws are proclaimed which abrogate the old. 
Heb 9 16.  Indeed the new Testament or new Law took place and was established at the death of Christ, as the Apostle proveth. yet by degrees it took place in the Churches, as Christ also teacheth, where he sayeth, 
john 12 3.  And I, if I were lift up from the earth will draw all men unto me, meaning that at his death he established a new Law and Testament, by which men should be drawn unto him, not that they were drawn at once in a moment and all together. For the veil or covering of the. 
2. Cor. 3. 14. 15.  old Testament was first to be taken away. By this veil no doubt Paul meaneth the ignorance of the jews, whereby they did cleave so much to the old law & ceremonies. And therefore the Lord saith in another place, 
Isa. 25. 7.  that he will destroy in this mountain, the covering that covereth all people, and the veil that is spread upon all nations. For the Temple that stood on the mountain, with the ordinances thereof, was as a veil to blind the hearts of the jews▪ which dwelled among all nations. And therefore Christ did foreshow the destruction of the Temple, 
Mat. 24. 2.  which came to pass about forty years after: 
john 4. 21.  A great part of which time, it was still permitted to the jews to hold the old Ceremonies. If they object that the veil of blindness was sin, and therefore to hold the ceremonies was sin, I answer, that it was no veil of blindness, to those that were willing, ready, and forward to receive the New Law and Testament when it was offered. If again they object that their willingness and forwardness appeared not, seeing the Gentiles so quickly rejected the old law, and they in so long time rejected it not: we answer, that all the believing jews did straightway reject it in part, though not wholly: but some of them also rejected it wholly even in short time, yet they were but few, and no marvel. For the Gentiles had never received the old law, and therefore might the more readily embrace the ●●we. but the jews were alway zealous of the old Law, 
Acts. 21. 20.  and therefore could not so suddenly be reclaimed from their former zeal. Further that distinction or difference betwixt the act and manner of doing any thing▪ 
Heb. 2. 8.  and the deed already done, appeareth by that place in the Hebrews: where it is said, thou hast put all things under his feet: in which words the act done, is put for the doing thereof. For yet we see not, (saith the Author) all things subdued unto him. but the work was in haude, as it were, it was doing and prospered, till all things should be subdued. Even so we may say that the old law was abolished. or taken away, at the death of Christ: that is, it was in abolishing, or it was ready to vanish away, and to be utterly abolished yea in Christ the head, it was abolished, and in the members also it was ready to be abolished. 
Rom. 14. 1, 2, 5.  And therefore Paul giveth this distinction, that some brethren are weak in faith, and are not yet persuaded in their minds, that the ceremonial law is abolished▪ 
Vers. 14.  others have knowledge. Now Paul reasoneth, 
Vers. 23.  that in such matters concerning the observation of such ceremonies, every man's faith or knowledge must be his rule. For to him that judgeth any thing unclean, to him it is unclean. Therefore he that doth any thing in such matters, against his knowledge or conscience, he sinneth. For whatsoever is not of faith or knowledge is sin, saith Paul. So then our answer is true, that the ceremonies of the old law, were not utterly to be removed, but by faith and knowledge of the full abrogation thereof. Otherwise Paul would not have said, that he which observeth a day, or he which eateth not unclean meats, observeth the day of the Lord, or eateth not the meat to the Lord. He meaneth, according to his own interpretation verse. 18. vers. 4. 
Verse 4.  that they serve Christ in these things, 
Verse. 18.  and are acceptable unto God, and also to be approved of men. And therefore also they that were stronger, and had further knowledge, were to bear with the weaker, 
Verse 3. 4. 13. 22.  and to apply their knowledge and judgement, 
1▪ Cor. 8. 9  that they put no stumbling block nor occasion to fall before their brethren. Again we have a further answer by these words of Paul. That some things may be done, upon just occasion, as when we are sure that we serve God therein: and some things are simply sin, which may never be done upon any occasion. Such are our vile abuses and ungodly disorders, which are not as the ceremonies of the Law, that by occasion might be observed or not observed: as to make difference of times or of meats: but they are altogether forbidden by the word of God, and therefore not indifferent as they term them. And though some things in themselves, 
Rom. 14. 14.  as they are creatures, 
1. Tim. 4, 4.  are rather clean, good, and lawful, then (as they term them) indifferent, yet their use, or rather abusing in such manner and order, is not lawful and good, neither indifferent.  
And here again is another objection to be answered, because when ●ing Hezekiah did celebrate the passover, 
2. Chron. 30. 17, 18, 19  there were many in the congregation, that were not cleansed, and yet did eat the passover. And thereby they do gather, that wicked wretches may partake with us in the sacraments. That place▪ plainly showeth, that it was only a ceremonial uncleanness, and no wickedness in the people. 
verse. 19  For the people as the words do testify, prepared their whole heart to seek the Lord God. again the same place answereth itself: that they were not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary: whereby is meant, as it is written in Numbers, 
Nom 9 10.  that they were to keep the passover, notwithstanding such uncleanness. For it could no way be remedied. before the time of the passover appointed. And again that ceremony of uncleanness, 
Nom. 19 20.  was commanded because of the sanctuary, which might not be polluted. Now therefore they only eating the passover in their houses or tents, and not coming to the sanctuary, their ceremonial uncleanness was no wickedness in them. For the Priests themselves, 
2. Chron. 29. 34,  as the text declareth, 
●. Chro. 30. 16.  were not suffered to come into the Sanctuary or Temple, 
Mark 7. 15.  being not yet cleansed. And yet also there is a further answer. For that the ceremonial uncleanness was no sin, so long as it was not by their carelessness in avoiding it, or if it had been sin, yet it was to be counted a smaller escape or an infirmity, and no grosser wickedness. And then seeing it was openly rebuked, and openly confessed, and prayed for by the King▪ and also healed in the people, (For the Lord healed the people saith the text,) I say, seeing the matter stood so, how shall any man excuse or tolerate thereby, our intolerable disorders, which are also incurable. For if escapes, or open infirmities are not so to be borne with, but that they must be openly rebuked and mended, before the offenders can communicate in the sacraments, Then much rather are open grosser sins to be first redressed, before the sinners be suffered to partake in the sacraments. But Master Cartwright bringeth a place in jeremy, for defence of suspendings, which the Bishops use now a days: or at least for tolerating of them that the preachers should take and give over their callings, as the Bishops and their officers do appoint them. Why doth he, so carelessly falsify the Scriptures. 
jerem. 36. 5.  First he saith that jeremy was suspended from preaching, and then he would prove that jeremy obeyed that suspension, thirdly he sayeth that jeremy was at liberty of his body, and four that he would not preach in the Temple for making a tumult. All which things are utterly false, and have no show of truth in them. For first it is plain in the chapter he quoteth, that he was shut up: 
jerem. 32. 2.  and therefore was not at liberty of his body: and the 32 chapter showeth that jeremy was shut up in the court of the prison. Then also imprisoning of a man doth show a violent withholding of a man from preaching, and not a suspending. Further that jeremy would obey no suspendings, it is plain by the charge and message he had from the Lord. 
jer. 1. 10, 18.  For he was set over the nations▪ and over the kingdoms, (as is written) and was made an iron pillar, and walls of brass against the king, the princes and the priests, and was not to be afraid of their faces, lest the Lord did destroy him before them. Indeed it is true as we have proved before, that we are not to preach to the unworthy, 
Hose 4. 4.  as to scorners, and persecutors. For there is a time when the wise man shall keep silence, when scarce any is to rebuke, or reprove another. But when jeremy was shut up, there were of the princes that took his part. For by their means no doubt▪ did jeremy get out of the prison 
jere. 56. 19  court, and so hid himself with Baruch. There was no such bondage of suspendings, as Master Cartwright would tolerate: and though there were, yet jeremy obeyed them not, but only gave place to the tyranny of persecutors, As for the tumult he speaketh of, 
Acts 23. 6.  we know that Paul himself, though he sought peace, yet he cared more, for his safety, and to witness the truth, than he did for to raise a tumult. And jeremy also ceased not to preach still, notwithstanding that a tumult, 
jerem 26. ●.  and much stirring had been among the people, and priests, and princes and Prophets, and all for his preaching.  
Whereas Master Cartwright sayeth, that Christ lived in the corruptest times of the Church, and when things were most confused, and fewest steps of any lawful calling to be seen, he is therein foully overseen. For those were the days, 
Zech. 1●. 10.  wherein the Lord did power, upon the house of David & upon the inhabitants of jerusalem, the spirit of grace & of compassion. 
Zech. 13. 2.  wherein also he did cut off the names of the Idols from amongst his people, as again it is prophesied: so that they were no more remembered. and he did cause the false prophets, 
Luke 18, 9  & the unclean spirits to departed from amongst them. 
luke 2. 21.  They had the true worship of God, 
Mar. 1, 40.  the true safices, 
Act. 10. 2●.  the order of the priests and Levites, 
john 4 9  & their callings according to the Law of Moses, The church was separated from the wicked, from the sect of the Saducees, from the idolatrous Samari●ans: There were very many good men & women, as Zacharie the Father of john Baptist and his wife, 
Mat. 3.  Simeon and Anna, 
Luke 3.  and Nathaniel and many other. all which I need not to reckon up. For there were great multitudes that heard john Baptistes' doctrine, and were baptized of him yea among the Pharisces, there were those that touching the righteousness which is in the law were unrebukable. 
Phil. 3. 6.  They were as it appeareth, most of them levites, openly called and authorised to preach by the Elders and people in the Synagognes'. And surely that it is but a vain exception, which Master Cartwright maketh of the high Priest, 
Nom. 20. 28.  That he was made a yearly officer, and came in by Simony into his office. For Eleazar was made high priest, while Aaron the high Priest yet lived. 
1. King. 2. 35.  And Zadok was made high Priest, 
1. King. 1. 42.  and Abiathar and his sons put from the priesthood, 
●. Sam. 2. 30.  when as yet the covenant of the priesthood pertained by the law unto Abiathar and his house. But necessities and just occasions did oftentimes make change of the ceremonial laws, and yet no corruption nor abuse came thereby. Wherefore for answer I say, that the priesthood was not made a yearly office, but that by course every year two priests did execute the office. And this seemed to be tolerable by the Law, seeing that if one priest should be sick, or letted by some greater occafions, the other might be in his stead. As we showed before, that Eeleazar was chosen high Priest, 
john 18. 13.  while Aaron yet lived, and Zadok in Abiathars' stead. and yet were there not two high Priests in the office at once, but only one at once was to execute the office. Also there seemed to be much doubt and controversy, to which of the priests, the priesthood did belong (as also we may read in josephus.) And therefore two chiefly standing for it, there were two chosen to it. And because the law of God did not suffer two at once to be in the office, they did succeed one another in the execution of the office. Again seeing they were of the sons of Aaron, and called after the order of Aaron, 
Heb. 5. 4.  no doubt their calling was lawful and good, Otherwise if any at that time, had been lawful high Priests, and yet not lawfully called as was Aaron, than the Apostle would not have set down this for a general truth, That no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. Neither let him here shift off our answer, by his fond distinction of the essence of a priest, and of a lawful priest, which before is refuted. As for Simony wherewith he chargeth the high Priests, he can not prove it against them. For if the Romans overruling them, did grievously exact their tributes and payments both of Christ himself, 
Mat. 17. 〈◊〉.  as we may read in Matth▪ and of the high priests: it was no more Simony in the priests, than it was in Christ to pay them their exactions. For the priesthood was their right. seeing it pertained unto them, being the sons of Aaron. yet can not Master Cartwright prove that they paid any money when they took their right, or if they did, that they thereby bought their right, and not rather paid an exaction, which the Romans demanded when they took their right. But suppose that secretly they gave bribes to the Romans, & dealt by Simony, yet that being hidden and not manifest to the people, they were to be taken of men as lawfully called to that office. For if the Law and common tribute exacted money of them, they might pay it as well as Christ. If the officers did exact any besides law, they did it secretly, lest they themselves should be condemned by law: and so it is manifest that no simony could be laid to their charge.  
And therefore no marvel though Christ bade the man show himself to the high Priest. For before the high priests became open persecutors, there was a lawful communion to be had with them. But this communion was afterward broken, and made unlawful through their open wickedness. Also it is false, which Master Cartwright saith, that Christ did reverence the high Priest, 
john 18. 2●.  and gave him accounts of his doctrine. For he gave him no accounts, and answered him so roundly, that one of the officers which stood by, smote him with a rod. Also his answer is false concerning that place in Hoshea, 
Hose 4 6.  that the Lord would refuse the priests, for being any more his priests: seeing they were without knowledge, of which words he sayeth, that the prophet rather giveth a rule to be followed in their election or deposition, then how far they may be used. Nay the Prophet there speaketh nothing of electing them, or deposing them by men▪ but rather of the plague or destruction that should come upon them. yea he showeth that through the ignorance of the priests all wickedness and idolatry reigned, 
Verse 9  and therefore he saith that there shall be like people like Priest, meaning that they shall have a like destruction. Now Master Cartwright dare not say, that all abominable wickedness and Idolatry reigning, and the priests themselves being wicked idolaters, I say, he dare not affirm, that they held the covenant, or were the people, or church of God. For before he hath said the contrary. And how then dare he say, that such priests, were yet priests unto God, and were not deposed from their priesthood, when as their own wickedness and idolatry did depose them. For that whole chapter of Hoshea is altogether against their wickedness and idolatry. And let M. C. know that our open gross sins & abuses, being not curable by the discipline of the Church, are as evil as Idolatry: as Samuel the Prophet doth witness, 
1. Sam. 15. 23.  saying, that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and transgression (he meaneth transgression which is stood in, and will not be mended) is wickedness & idolatry. But this matter is made manifest before.  
Now followeth the last part of his letter, & the last matter in controversy, as whether by communicating with a reading minister, we do communicate with their impiety, & establish their ministery. M. C. herein doth more shamefully err, then if he should, with the bishops, altogether justify such reading ministers. For he might better say, they were lawful ministers, and that their ministery were lawful, then that he should confess them to be unlawful ministers, & yet justify that we may receive them, as having the essence, and substance of ministers, and partake in their wicked ministery, without impiety or establishing their But he may plainly see (except his eyes of understanding be utterly darkened) that if any do usurp, as traitors, against her majesty, than they also that come under their usurped rule and government, being once free from it, are also traitors together with them: So likewise those men usurping a ministry, which Christ never gave them, neither sanctified to be in his Church, both they do wickedly, and they also, that will come under their ministry, do establish their wicked ministry, and partake with them in their impiety. If a man of the wind, (saith the prophet) and false fellow do he saying, 
Micah. 2. 11.  I will prophecy unto you of wine and of strong drink; he shall even be the prophet of this people. Yea why not, saith Master Cartwright, if the Church do call such a one, is it his sin only, saith he, and not theirs that receive him. And the prophets, saith he, do not lay it to the people's charge, though they communicate with such. Do they not indeed? doth not this prophet Micha lay it to their charge? 
Zech. 13. 3.  doth not also Zecharie show how unlawful it was to communicate with false prophets, where he saith, that when any false prophet shall yet prophecy, his father and his mother that begat him, shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live: For thou hast spoken lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him, shall thrust him through, when he prophesieth. But the truth of this matter, I have proved before. Let us further examine his wise reasons. He confesseth that if by communicating with him, we do make him minister, than we are guilty of his wickedness. But we make him not minister saith he, though we communicate with him. But I demand, should we have such ministers, if no parishioner, nor other did communicate with them? Would there be any magistrates, if there were no subjects to be under their guiding, or any master, if there were no servants? So then as the having of servants and subjects, to communicate in the same household or kingdom, doth make masters and magistrates, so to have parishioners to communicate with such ministers, doth make them such ministers, and also establish their ministery. If Master Cartwright were not void of common reason in this matter, he would never affirm such absurdities. But before he granted as much in effect, that the church which receiveth and calleth a minister doth especially make him minister: and therefore herein he is contrary to himself. 
1. Chro. 29. 22.  And therefore it is written, 
jerem. 23. 21.  that the congregation of the people, made Solomon king, and Zadok high priest. Indeed if the false prophets, or reading ministers do run of themselves only, and were not called nor received of any, neither had any office nor ministery in the Church, than the devil only, might be said to make them ministers, but the parishioners receiving them for their ministers, and taking them to be called to that office by the Church, as Master Cartwright teacheth us, and yielding themselves to be their flock and charge. I say, those parishioners together with the devil and his officers do make them ministers. As for partaking with the impiety of the minister, we have proved before, that if any wickedness be open, and the church will not redress it, it is guilty of the wickedness committed. neither ought it to allege, that it can not redress it. 
1. Cor 5.  For it hath the power of Christ, 
2 Cor. 10.  to judge those that are within, & those strong weapons of the spiritual warfare, which can cut off all wicked disorders in the church. Otherwise as we have showed, it is not the church of God. Paul showeth that except we purge out the old leaven we can not be a new lump to the Lord, neither keep the lords feasts. he showeth his meaning in that place, that they suffering such a gross offender amongst them, were guilty of his wickedness, and could not partake in the sacraments, but it must needs be done with the leaven of wickedness▪ and not with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 
M●● 1. 13.  And therefore in the next epistle it is showed, 
2▪ Cor. 7▪ 11.  that they all repent and sorrowed, as being guilty of his sin, whom they had no sooner excommunicate.  
And why was king Hezekiah afraid, 
2. Chron. 30. 17, 18, 19  and all the people, For the ceremonial uncleanness of some, but only that they feared, lest they all were polluted thereby, and the passover not accepted. And therefore that uncleanness, which the Law also did suffer, and which was without sin, as we have showed, was openly confessed, and healed by prayer: lest the keeping of that feast should be wholly unclean. How much more than shall open gross wickedness, when it breaketh forth, in the Church, make them all polluted and guilty thereof, if they refuse and will not redress it. Finally his similitude of receiving goods or lands of a man's father being a murderer, is vain. For the sacraments which the reading ministers do give us, are neither his sacraments, neither the Lords, as we proved before, but are polluted pledges of a wicked communion. Again we may not receive gold of a thief, to justify his thieverie. And we have showed that such ministers are thieves and robbers, and can not as Fathers give us the Lords holy things. Likewise is that answered of communicating with adulterers whom we can not (as he saith) avoid. For if their sin be open and proved, then both all the Church and every one of the Church, aught and may avoid them, I mean their fellowship in the sacraments. If their sin be secret and not proved by witnesses, than the question is not of them.  
FINIS.   

An ANSWER UNTO A LETTER OF MASTER HARRISONS BY MASTER CARTwright being at Middleborough.  
grace. and peace etc. Beloved for so much as I left you the choice for the first conference, whether you would have it in writing or by speech of mouth; I attended some days for your answer of that matter: which because it was not returned, I esteemed that you held you still to the request of your letters, which was to receive some thing from me by writing. For answer therefore, so it is that your letters affected me diversly: For where your first page had raised me unto some hope for the reuniting of yourself, with the rest of your company unto us, from whom you have thought good to sunder yourselves. The second page which layeth forth the conditions of our peace, did cast me, and as it were beat me from it again; howbeit the mercy of God upholding me in some good hope of profiting you▪ or receiving some profit from you. I thought to cut out this time out of my weightiest and most necessary business, wherein I might give you that contentment which the Lord hath inhabled my hand unto. Unto you not unwilling to come unto us, the passage (as it seemeth) is stopped in divers respects: The short whereof, is the receiving without public repentance of those which come from the Churches of England, where because in the outward profession that the laws of that land do justify, there appears unto you no lawful assemblies of the Church of Christ: your fear is least in uniting yourselves, with such you should be unequally yoked, and made fellow members of some other body then of that whereof Christ jesus is the head. First therefore if it be showed that the ordinary assemblies of those which profess the Gospel in England be the Churches of Christ, it seemeth that the way will be paved and plained for mutual intercourse between us, thus therefore it seemeth it may be performed, those assemblies which have Christ for their head and the same also for their foundation are God's churches, such are the assemblies of England, therefore &c. the assumption is evident in that by believing that christ it our righteousness we are made members of his body & thereby at lively stones laid upon him, as upon a foundation, we grow into one spiritual house with him, now that they have the like precious faith with us, is convinced not only by their own profession, but also by the testimony of the spirit of God, who by manifold graces powered upon them, even unto an apparent sanctification of numbers of them, do bear them witness that they be members of the body of christ, 
Rom. 8. 14.  who as the head hath partaked unto them his holy spirit, 
Esa. 59 ●1.  th●y that have performed unto them the special covenant which the Lord hath made with his churches of pouring his spirit upon them & putting his words in their mouths are the churches of God: but such are the assemblies in England as touching the spirit of God it hath been said before, whereupon also it followeth that he hath likewise put his word in their mouths, considering that the spirit of God is not given but by the word, & seeing that the Lord in mercy hath set up divers burning lamps in those assemblies whereby light is conveyed more or less into all the parts almost of that land, it seemeth that the church of England should receive injury if it should not be accounted among the golden candlesticks which seem to keep out darkness & might from the Lords sanctuary, until such time as the day star spring & Lucifer do rise in our hearts. If you say all do not believe the gospel truly which profess it, the same exception lieth against all other churches how reform soever, if that there be fewer faithful in our churches then in others, the truth of the church standeth not in the number, for if there were but in every church one truly and undissemblingly faithful, all the rest holding the faith of our Lord jesus christ in words only, yet should all those churches be unto us the churches of God, and if you say the assemblies, as it were all the branches or arms of the candlestick have not lights set upon them, the greater number of them being dumped with dumb ministery, notwithstanding by the way you confess those assemblies upon whom the Lord hath set the lamp of a preaching ministry are the churches of God, which seemeth to cast down that hill which standeth in the way against our rejoicing, whereby you can not afford us the Name of gods churches because we have not the discipline by him appointed, now for the other, whether they have some glimpse of knowledge by the dumb ministery or no, may afterwards in another place be considered for the present I answer, that even in those congregations forasmuch as they both have and might have by some former ministry or means which the Lord hath used towards them received faith standing thereby in our saviour christ as in the shaft of a candlestick they cease not to be a branch in the Lord's candlestick, and being members of the same body they may well receive some supply of their want from the light that shineth in the next branch unto them, for if every assembly being without a lamp of the ministry should by & by be holden to be broken from the shaft of the church candlestick, then at every vacation of the ministry and whensoever by death the Lord should put out one of his lights, it should follow that that assembly by the fall of their minister into the grave, should from the highest heaven fall into the grave of hell, but you will say peradventure, that an assembly that hath a dumb minister is in worse case than that which hath none at all, if that be granted, yet followeth it not therefore that the assembly which yesterday being without a dumb minister was the church of God, should to day by having such a one set over them be the Synagogue of Satan and here me thinks whilst you go about to make nothing of the dumb ministry you ascribe more force to it, than it hath▪ for you make him not so much as a guide or an head of the church in that those which before in all equal judgement were to be deemed members of Christ, by hearing them should suddenly become the members of antichrist, I do not therefore yield unto you, in that you say they are the chief always in the synagogues, our Saviour Christ in whom those companies do believe being the chief with whom through faith they grow to be one body, which rather than by hearing the dumb minister to be one with him, say therefore that it is a fault in them to hear such a minister thrust upon them, yet that it is an apostasy from God and an utter falling away from the Gospel, I see not with what great appearance of truth it can be spoken. Moses when divers of the people clave unto Korah, Datham and Abiram, forsaking willingly the lawful and ordinary ministry of the Aronites, did not therefore cast them forth from the lords host; and should the churches of God, for hearing a dumb minister which is thrust upon them, forthwith be reputed for runagates from the Lord. Again, the Lord is in covenant with that people to whom he giveth the seals of his covenant; this he doth to our assemblies in England, therefore they are the lords confederates. If you say that the seals set to by the dumb ministry are no seals, (which afterward cometh to be examined) yet you thereby confess that those which are ministered by sufficient ministers are the true and uncounterfaite sacraments of the church: whereby it falleth again, that you seem to hold that the churches in England are not true churches of Christ, because they have not his commanded discipline. Hereunto may be added the judgement of all the churches of Christ in Europe, all which give the right hand of society in the house of God, unto the assemblies which are in England. Which argument of the church's authority, albeit it be not so strong as it will enforce, yet ought it to stay all sudden and hasty judgements unto the contrary, and so long to cause silence until the cause be rightly on both sides debated, and the contrary of that which the churches hold, do through the lightness son of the truth thereof break forth, and if it be meet to proceed softly, and as it were with a leaden foot to the excommunication of one only member of the Church of God, there ought verily to have been great consultation taken, when the Churches of two whole Islands should have been cast out, (especially when they be holden in by voices, not of divers persons, but of all the churches, to whom the knowledge of their estate hath come.) And if there were but one man worthy to be excommunicate, yet if the greater part of your assembly, would not yield consent thereunto, I hold it that the order of the discipline requireth, that the rest are to bear the person whom they can not remove. And therefore although the assemblies of England had deserved through want of discipline, and of a teaching ministery, to be cast out from the account of the churches of God, yet being holden in by the most voices of the Churches themselves, they ought to have been so far borne withal, as the communicating with them should not make them guilty of a falling away from the Lord. Now I come to those two reasons whereby you think you may justly hold the assemblies in England for no churches of God. And first of all to the reason of the discipline, for the want whereof you give them all without exception the blackestone of condemnation from being the churches of christ, where it is to be understood that as in a man there are certain parts essential and such as without which the man can not stand, and other some serving either to his comeliness or to his long continuance, so it is in this matter, there is the foundation christ, whereupon it is necessary that by fa●th the assemblies be laid, which groweth unto the lords building, without the which it can not be his church, which thing being, whatsoever is either wanting of that which is commanded, or remaining of that which is forbidden is not able to put that assembly which by faith is laid upon Christ, from the right and title of being the church of Christ, for faith can admit of no such thing, which giveth an utter overthrow and turning upside down of the truth. By this title of the faithful, the Apostle in his epistles noteth out the Churches of God, it being all one with him to say to the faithful or to the Saints, as to the Churches of such a place, whatsoever wanteth unto this, or is more then enough, it wanteth or aboundeth to the disgrace and uncomeliness, or to the hazard of the continuance and not to the present overthrow of the church and although besides faith in the Son of GOD there may be many things necessary for every assembly, yet be they necessary to the comely and stable being and not simply to the being of the church: hereupon the people of Israel which neglected for the space of forty nine years the holy Sacrament of circumcision and the passover also, (as it seemeth) one only time excepted, seized not therefore to be the churches of God and to have the Sanctuary amongst them. And in this respects the Dutch assemblies whereof the greatest part in high Germany, which besides the same Name of discipline which is common to our churches, are grossly deceived in the matter of the Supper are notwithstanding holden in the roll of the churches of god. In this respect also certain assemblies of our profession which having the use of the discipline permitted unto them, are not suffered to have the use of the Sacraments of the lords Supper are no therefore when the lords churches are mustered and their Names written and enrouled up, cast out as unfit to remain in any account of the lords host without any part of that order and discipline which the Lord hath appointed. I grant there can be no church of christ for that without some part of it there can be no faith in jesus christ, it is a piece of that discipline of our Saviour christ that there should be certain, which should be chosen out of the rest to preach the gospel, by preaching whereof the churches are gathered. Where therefore there is no ministery of the word there it is plain that there are no visible and apparent churches. it is another part of the discipline of our Lord, that the rest of the body of the church should obey those, that are set over them in the Lord. Wheresoever therefore there is no obedience of the people given to the ministers that in the lords name preach unto them, there also can be no church of christ, but where these two be, although other points want, yea although there be some defect in these, that neither the ministers do in all points preach as they ought, nor the assemblies in all points obey unto the wholesome doctrine of their teachers, yet do they for the reason abovesaid retain the right of the churches of god.  
This may be made by plain similitude from the body of man, 
A foppery.  whereunto we are already entered, for if any man should have both his hands & his arms cut off his eyes put out etc. yet as long as the head standeth and other vital parts, he is to be accounted a man, although a maimed man: even so it is in the assembly, as long as it holdeth the head, how defective it is otherwise, yet it hath the due and right of the church of god, and although a man should have six fingers on one hand and but three one another, & albeit they should stand where the mouth doth, yet all this deformity should not hinder from being truly holden to be a man, although it would be great deformity in him on the other part if he had no head at all or that there were no natural conjunction of the parts one with another; but a whole and through displacing of every part, from his proper state then verily could he not be deemed to have either the proportion of a man or his life, so likewise if an assembly either hold not the head which is Christ jesus or be nothing else but a confused multitude without any part of that order which the son of God hath appointed, the same is justly crossed out of the account of God's church, was not jerusalem after the return from Babylon the city of the great King, until snche time as Nehemias' came, and builded up the walls of the city: to say therefore it is none of the Church of god, because it hath not received this discipline, me thinks is all one with this as if a man would say it is no city because it hath no wall, or that it is no vinyeard because it hath neither hedge nor dyke. It is not I grant so sightly a city or vinyeard nor yet so safe against the invasion of their several enemies which lie in wait for them, but yet are they truly both cities and vineyards. There remaineth the other point which is against those assemblies only which have a dumb ministery, wherein that part of your conclusion that the assemblies where they be are none of the Churches of god is before answered. There resteth that part of your conclusion, whereby you infer that the Sacraments ministered by them are none of gods Sacraments, and therefore that a man may not receive any of them at their hands, here first I agree with you that their ministery is unlawful and to themselves without repentance a certain matter of destruction, especially in those unto whom the knowledge of this corruption is come, to the churches where they be presently hurtful, and in the end without remedy deadly, but that they are no ministers of god so far as to receive the good things they offer unto us that I suppose I may not well yield unto, the ground hereof I take from the former part of my answer that for so much as they are allowed by the churches of god they ought until remedy may be found of so great disorder to be heard and received so far as they can give us any thing that is of christ, and for this cause our Saviour christ commanded that the Scribes should be heard in that they taught truly, 
Mat●h. 23 2.  which honour our saviour christ would never have given unto them, unless the church calling had moved him thereunto▪ 〈◊〉 had it been lawful for the people otherwise to have heard them▪ for it is evident that their unfitness and unlawfulness in the ministery although another way was as great, as it is in our reading ministers they were all together deceived in the Messiah, for neither knew they that jesus was the christ, nor yet that the christ whom they looked for should be the son of god, 
john 9 22.  but held him for a bare & nakedman. 
Mat. 22. 42.  It appeareth also that they taught the justification which is by the law of works not only in the eighteenth of Luke but even the very self same place where our Saviour commandeth this audience unto them, for speaking of the works of the moral Law, which they would not touch with one of their fingers, he saith that they laid them upon the people's backs, as burdens which could not be borne, whereby our Saviour besides the Pharisitical pride and lordliness in teaching signifieth that they taught them to justification, seeing that if they had only taught them as testimonies and fruits of faith they had not been untolerable, but as our Saviour saith an easy yoke, and as Saint john sayeth, 
1. john 5.  not grievous or heavy▪ Now the dumb ministery is not farther off from the institution of a lawful ministery, 
Matth. 11.  then to teach untruly in the chief grounds of Religion, neither is the edifying of the church respected in making laws for the ministery, less hindered by a ministery teaching false things, and that in so weighty points, as by an unpreaching minister, and according to this saying of our Saviour christ, we may see what the practice of the Prophets had been before, who although they had oftentimes to do both with false teachers and Priests that dumb dogs and not able to bark, 
isaiah 58.  yet giving the people warning of their corruptions and insufficientnesse, threatening also the casting them from the ministery in the good time when the Lord should have pity on his Church, they are never found to have forbidden the people to come to their sacrifices, or to bring their sacrifices commanded by the law unto them, yea our Saviour that lived in the corruptest times of the Church, and when things were most confused and fewest steps of any lawful calling to be seen, yet commanded the man whom he purged from his leprosy to show himself unto the priest, where it is to be observed, 
Matth. 8.  that he saith to the priest generally without willing him to make choice of a priest better instructed or affected unto the truth than the rest, but indifferently unto the priest, the high priest albeit he was at that time contrary to the Law made a yearly officer, although he entered in by Simony and reward unto the Romans, yet▪ notwithstanding we see our saviour bore him reverence for his office sake and as before his judge in spiritual causes gave an account of his doctrine, we have another example of reverence unto such rulers even in things that were done by them wrongfully▪ 
jerem. 36.  for jeremy being as it appeareth suspended for a time from coming into the Temple and albeit at liberty of his body would not, lest as it seemeth be should make a tumult enter into the temple, and therefore having written that which he had to say, sent Baruch to read his sermon in the temple, moreover when a magistrate is not able to do some part of his office, as for example being able to do the duties which are to be performed in peace is insufficient for mortal offences, yet no man refuseth to take that which he is able to give, because he is not able to do all that is required. Even so endeavouring to our uttermost to a sufficient ministery, I would think in the mean season, that the good things that they are able to give us may be taken at their hands and if any say that it is of the substance of a church minister to be able to teach, and therefore he is no minister that hath not that ability, it may be answered that it is of the substance of a good & lawful minister of God, but not simply of a minister, whereunto it is sufficient to have the church calling as it is of the substance rather of a lawful magistrate to be able to judge between his subjects then simply of a magistrate whom the election of the people, or of other to whom his choice belongeth, maketh a magistrate of the Lord although he be no lawful or sufficient magistrate as therefore we take him for a magistrate which for the ignorance of his charge may be called an idol magistrate. Even so it seemeth that he may be holden for a minister which hath the Churches calling albeit he be not able to do the principal charge of that ministery. Neither doth the place of the Prophet 〈◊〉, which sayeth, 
Osee 4. 6.  because they have refused knowledge they shall be no Priests unto him stand against this the Prophet rather giving a rule to follow in the election or disposition of them then showing how far they may be used, finally to that which is objected of communicating with their 〈◊〉, in taking any thing at their hands, I answer first that the same might have been laid to the people's charge under the Law, which is never done of the Prophets. Secondly if by communicating with him we should make him minister, I grant that a piece of his guilt would stick to our fingers, but when that is not, I see not how by receiving the sacraments of him which partake more unto his wickedness then the son is partaker of his father's murder, because he receiveth of his father's gift, some part of his own lands and movables and so much there then here as the father giveth his own things, where the dumb minister doth only dispense the gifts of the Lord, wherefore it may be rather feared lest in refusing the Sacraments offered by him, we put the Lord away from us, whose they be then in taking the Sacraments at his hands to be partners of impiety, which is the means, and can take no hold of the Sacraments in any sort. For even as not able to avoid him I may communicate with a minister that is an adulterer without being partaker of his adultery. Even so also may I communicate with a dumb minister, and yet nevertheless be free from his impiety. Thus have you my answer written not without the fear and trembling yourself make mention of, whereby it will not be hard for you to understand how both our holy desires of being united together may be performed. And although I writ in good assurance especially in the former part as touching the rightful Title of the Churches of Christ to be due to the assemblies in England, yet remembering (besides the common frailty of our whole race) special breaches & decays in myself I will willingly harken unto any (much more unto you whom the Lord in mercy hath bestowed good graces upon) showing better things. For which cause if further conference be needful, I must through business be enforced, to reserve it to conference by word of mouth, sometimes after dinner. And thus with my most humble prayers unto the Lord our God for his holy spirit whereby we may be able to discern the things that differ to our unoffensive walking in the sight of all men, even unto the day of the Lord I bid you Farewell.