¶ AN WHOLESOME  
Antidotus or counterpoysen, against the pestilent heresy and sect of the anabaptists newly translated out of latin into English by john Veron, Senonoys.   


Principiis obsta, sero medicina para tur  
Cum mala per longas, invaluere moras  
Vidiego quod fuerat, primo sana bile vulnus,  
Dilatum longae, damna tu●●sse mora▪    

TO THE MOST REDOUBTED, prince Edward, by the grace of god, Duke of Summersault, Lord Protector, of all the Kings majesty's realms subjects, and dominions and governor of his most total person health, prosperity, increase of honour & heavenly knowledge from god the father, through out lord and saviour jesus Christ So bet.  
THE blessed aposttle saint Paul, in the xx. chapter of the acts, calling together all the seniors or priests, at a place and town called Myletum, did speak unto them after this manner Take ye heed to yourselves, & to a● the flock, over the which, the holy ghost hath put you over seers to feed the congregation of god, which he purchased with his own blood for I know this well, that after my departing, shall enter in grievous wolves a 'mong you, which shall not spare the flock. And even of yourselves, shall a rise men speaking perverse things, to draw disciples after them etc. Here, most mighty prince, did that choose & elected vessel of god, describe most lively, the wicked and perverse nature, of false & seditious herytyckes, that study for nowght elles, but to divide and separate the church, to get unto them disciples, to scatter & dissipate the flock of the most bounteous sheaperde jesus christ, to sow discord, & teach perverse things, etc. Which thing truly, did chance in the primitive church, even in the times of the a postelles, to the great hindrance, and let of the gospel of Christ, for where so ever, the apostles and disciples of our saviour, had preached the kingdom of god, and with great pain and labour, had borough: the people, from their superstytious, and ungodly ways, in to the way of the truth: there did break in certain false prophets, and false a postelles also, with there perverse and hypocritical doctrine, subverting the minds of them, that with joyful hearts, had received the glad tidings of saluatin & deliverance. These are they y● for their bealies sake, did, as a stormy & windy tempest, trouble the peace & unite of the church seeking their own glori and promotion, imagining always mischief, in their hearts, how they could get unto themselves, by their pestiferous blandiloquence, and venomed flattering tongues, most shamefully and untruly, preferring themselves, unto the true a postlles and disciples of our lord) a perpetual name & memory, Against them did the apostles, and specially saint Paul (whom we may right well call the standard bearer, of our christian religion) writ very earnestly, calling them antichristes, false prophets and pseudoapostills, calling them evil workmen, enemies of the cross and passion of christ, as it appeareth more evidently in the acts and in the epystylls, that they have written and sent to sundry and many churches, to arm and fence the flock of christ, against such ravening wolves. Yet not tstonding after the departing of the a postells, that is to say, after that god had done his blessed will which them according to the comen course of nature: these false prophets, did so prevalle against the true doctrine of christ, that in a manner these xii. hundred years, few or none durst speak the truth. For as soon as any man, by the inspiration and gift of the holy ghost, did begyne in those days, to preach the gospel, purely & sincerely, to the great glory of god and edyfyeng of the church, defending with the sword of the spiritee, that liberty and fryedome, that christ with his precious blood hath purchased unto us (did not these hypocrites, bring all the world in to thraldom, putting upon christian means necks heavear burdens of human traditious and ceremonial dreams, than ever did the jews bear? which as saint Augustyne saith, though they knew not the time of liberty, yet not withstanding war lodid and burdoned not with men's presumptions, but with the burdens of the law only?) by and by was he, as a false heretic, or as he that hath killed both father, and mother, most cruelly put to death. In so much that the earthly princes, whom, with their abhomynabyll dysscimulation, they had gotten on their seed, blynding and poyseyning them most subtly & craftily, with the golden cup of the purpled whore of babylon, thought, that they did a great sacrifice unto god, when, with all the tyranny that could be, for these belies sake, murdered, and persecuted them, whom god had choose and sent, to show unto them, the way of truth & salvation. But blessed be that bontuous lord, which hath not suffered the princes, whom by his divine providence, he hath made & ordoned, to be supreme governors of his church, immediately under him (though by the tyrannical power of those false prophets, & antichrists, they ware put, by that superyorytye a great while) to err and be deceived any longer, but did most merciful open their eyes to look upon that comfortable son of ryghtuosnes, and light of the truth, that they might, in these thick darkenessies of this wretched world, be guides unto his people, to bring them out of the egypt of ignorannycye, and so lead them through the parylous deserts, into the land of promistion. For the which things, we are all greatly bound, to give daily, and hourley, immortal thanks unto god, and specially that, of his bounteous, & mere goodness he hath given unto us such of noble & courageous prince which now in his tender years, is so delegentli brought up, in all godliness & virtuous learning, that he hereafter, as a noble Solomon, shall with all prudence and godly wisdom, not only shed the blood of them that did shed the innocent blood, but also, build up, mightily, the temple of the living god. Which thing, as david in the old law, so now our most vyctoryus prince. henry the eight, the father of this, our sofuerayne lord king Edward the sixth, would had done, if god had not disposed otherwise, with him. But thanks be to god, that he hath so well, prepared all things, before his death, and that he hath with the tow edgged sword of the spiritee, cutted a way already, the bushes, thorns and brambles, that should had letted the building of the temple, making the ground even, by abbating the pride of these false a posteles, and putting away, by little and little the rubbyshe, of ungodly traditions and vain ceremonis. Which thing will be no, small spur, unto our most sofuerayne lord, king Edward the sixth, to perform and bring to prosperous, and joyful end, that, which his loving father, hath begun, so godly. And I doubt not, but now (god willing, who never for saketh his true, and faithful servants, though, to try their faith, for a time and season, suffereth them to be persecuted) all things shall be done to y●, glory of god, and great comfort of the loving subjects, of this noble and flourishing realm. Among whom (as we may, easily pr●ceyue, by their diligent and greedy coming to the churches, when they hear of any sermon, and preaching) is fallen now a great hunger and thirst, not of this material breaed, and drink, but of the lively word of god. But alas in stead, of the heavenvly bread, that feedeth to everlasting life, they be deluded with blind & doom ceremones. Which thing, I trust, not long shall continue in Christ's church, where the word of god, only should reign, and without the which, purely & sincerely preached, is no church but a den of thieves. Except I say these, vanities, and pestiferous invetions of men: be utterly banished a way it is more like the carnal temple of the jews (in whose synagogues Moses, & the prophets war read every Sabothe day, without fail) than the church of christ. But now, sith that it hath pleased god (who looking mercifully upon the affliction of his people hath sent the 〈…〉 mighty deliverer) to enhance, and make your grace, not only high protector & defender of this noble country of England, but also a faithful overseer, of the building of this spiritual temple, which is the church of the living god, that, with his precious blood, he did wash, from all spot, bloat, and macule, to triumph with him everlasting life, in his heavenly kingdom, and the toward the same building, as in the old law, toward the setting up of the tabernacle some men did offer gold, some silver, some precious stones, some a gain did offer purple, scarlet, and silks: I thought according, to my power abylytye, be cause I could, offer none, of the above rehearsed things to offer at jest, either some vile goats: skynes, or some led, to cover this spiritual temple, and to keep, the rain, and foul weather, from that gorgeous and goodly ornaments, that other men, according to their rich, & pregnant wits have abundantly offered. It is so, that otherwiles, for lack of good coverture, many fair, & goodly places, well & gorgeously trimmed within, and decked pleasantly, with gold, azure, and precious stones, do fall in short space, in to great decay, by reason of the rain that falleth in. likewise if a remydye, be not provided, that the church of god, and celestial jerusalem (which is now almost builded up again, and through reparated, by our godly Nehemias') may be fenced, against the tempestuous heresis of the Anabaptistes (which, where soever the truth doth spring, and beginneth to come a broad, do break in, infecting the minds, of the rude and simple people, with pernicious & detestable opinions) surely thereof, as afore of the doctrine of the papistes great convenientes must needs follow. Many towns & cities, in Germany and in the Sussynres' land, where, the word of god did flourish goodly affore, beware clean subverted by this abominable sect. of the Catababtisties (for they were called anabaptisties, because that they were authors of rebaptisation, or babtizing again, and Catabaptisties, because, that they did speak and hold opinion, against the baptism of children) in so much, that they had almost extynguysshed the gospel there as it is more evidently showed, in the works of certain famous clerks of Germany & Helvetia Which incomoditie and hurt, that it may not chance hereafter, in this illustre & victorius realm of England: I have according to my small learning, enterprised, to translate out of latin, in to english a little treaty, that the famous clerk Henry Bullinger, hath afore written in the Germanysh tongue, and after, was translated into latin by Leo Ind, bishop of Tigure against the pestiferous venom of the anabaptists. Wherein the false and pernicious opinions of these antichrists, are so clerkly both by scriptures, and also good learning, confuted▪ that it is impossible, where such books, shallbe diligently per●syd, and read, that this cursed heresy should take any place. This shallbe therefore an wholesome Antidotus or conterpoyson against such pestilent doctrines Which I do, most humbly offer & dedicate unto your grace, as unto him, that will, with all his might, and godly power, see that the word of god, shallbe every where, pureiy and sincerely preached, & that, as a tender father, would be full loath also, that any such erroneous doctrine, should creep in, to infect the loving, and faithful subjects of this realm, desiring, and most meekly besiching your grace, to accept this my rude labour, which I have bestowed in translating this first book, being always ready, at your grace's commandment, to translate the other iii as soon, as god will give me grace, who of his infinite bountuousenesse, preserve your grace, and all the noble counsel of England, long to continue, in love, wealth, & prosperity, in our lord and saviour jesus Christ, to whom be praise, honour and glory, world without end.  
AMEN.  
By your humble and poor orator john Verone.   

The first, book against the errors of the Auababtistes, divided into dialogues, whereof, the enterlocutors are, joiada, who representeth the true christian man▪ & Simon, that taketh the Auababtistes' part.  

How that the world, is easisy deceived, and brought to division, by fass doctrine.  joiada. 
THat truly, which the wise men of the heathen, did complain upon, saying that all mortal men, are exceeding studious, of new things, appeareth now to be true: in so much that they do suffer themselves wilfully to be beguiled, and utterly spoiled, by shameful and abominable impostors & deceivers (so that they be commended, with hypocrisy, and vain blandiloquence or flattering) although this thing (if any man, should esteem it after humane reason) is by itself, both miserable, and full of horror, yet notwithstanding, it ought most of all, to be lamented, among us Christian men, which have sure and definite, short and most approved grounds or foundations, both of our faith and of our living, where upon, we may surely leine, and trust, not suffering our selves, thus to be carried about and tossed to and fro, by such erroneous persons. But surely, our sins, & infidelity do deserve it, which do hear daily the word of god, but do not receive it, with a true heart, seeking, I can not tell, what other thing beside the glory of god, and true innocency of life Therefore, are we deseruyngly given, in to a reprobate mind, and in to all kind of filthiness and abomination.  Simon 
Lo I set the man, whom I have looked for, agreate while. But is it he, in deed whom I see coming hitherward, to meet me, or not? I will speak unto him.  
God speed, most well-beloved brother. Art thou not  joiada. 
with whom, I did familiarly live, in the city of Lions. Tell me I pray thee, how dost thou? Are all things safe, or well? Or what thing, maketh thee, to go, so pensive, and troubled in thy mind?  joiada. 
As touching myself, all things ●ewell, thanks be unto god, But it grieveth me, that such great dissensions, and troubles are among Christian men. And although such debates and strifes, be neither necessary, nor profitable, for any manner of thing, yet not withstanding we do see, the poor simple people, to be, on every side entangled with the errors of the Anababtistes I am both ashamed and sorry also, that such blindness doth reign, that men, can not see, what misfortune doth follow, wheresoever these anabaptists, do fix or set their feat. Surely, it did behove, that they should have perceived, and espied such things, & after that they were once known, to shun them, & not toswarue, as much, as the breadth of a nail from the sure articles of the faith.  Simon. 
Tell me I pray y●, if thou art a good fellow. What harms, do these men, go about to do? for I dare say and affirm, that I have not hitherto hard, that they have gone about any thing, that doth abhor, from truth and honesty. In the mean season I know, that many things are imputed unto them, falsely, moreover that they be accused, and blamed in many things, which they do not knowledge themselves, to be guilty in.  joia. 
I do hear also, that thine eyes are blinded by such men. Which if I do, both heal and open unto thee, thou wilt give me thanks, and remember this benefit.  Simon. 
I can not utterly blame this sort of men, for yet I have not hard, that they have done any abominable thing.  joiada. 
But I will make it, manifest unto the. This sect did utterly subvert the whole city of Waltzhountum, and did cause many of the citizens, which were both good and rightful men, to be exiled, and to be put from their possessions. Wherefore the gospel (which did flourish godly there) was also outrageously extynguysshed. The which thing did almost chance, in a city, called Vormantia. There were Anababtystes in August, in Basile, and in Morania, which did affyrmt, that Christ was but a prophet, saying that the ungodly persons, which for their ungodliness were damned, and the devils also, should enjoy, the heavenly bless. In a town called Sanctogallus, one of them, did smite of his own brother's head, the father of heaven (as he said) bidding him thus to do. What abomination they do commit, under the pretence, and colour of spiritual matrimony, the towns and cittees, that did oftentimes, grievously punish them, for such wicked and abominable facts, do manifestly show and testify. And this no man can denay, but that many of them, do leave and forsake their own wives and children, yea all office and honesty being casted aside, do live, feed, and fat them selves, with other men's labours, snorting both day and night, most slougardely. And where as, they be wholly given to so foul and detestable sensualytee, they do interpret it, to be, the commandment, of the heavenly father, persuading to women and honest matrons, that it is impossible for them, to be partakerres of the kingdom of heaven except they do abhominabli prostitute, and make common their own bodies to all men, sith that it is, written, that we must forsake and renounce, to all things, that we love best, and that we ought to suffer all kinds of infamy, or reproach, for Christsake, beside that, that the publicans, and harlots shallbe preferred, to the ryghtwes, in the kingdom of heaven, There is no end, nor measure of their infidelity, and falsehood, of their lying and sedition, with the which vices these disobedient persons are on every side infected. Are these, my Simon, and other much grevoser, which I do pass over here, for the nonce, to be called virtues? Do they seem unto the yet, to have done no unhonest act? Or canst thou denay, but that they have done these things  Simon. 
Truly many things are ascribed unto them falsely and the fame or voice of the people, doth always add somewhat unto it.  joiada. 
That, which is said hitherto, may be proved by sealed letters, and with sure and infallible witnesses. I have here wittingly passed over their abominable crimes, and have said, a great deal less, than they have done themselves. Therefore, it grieveth me the more, that men are so blind, that they can not perceive, nor ponder in their hearts such things. But rather, that a great sort of men, do embrace those erroneous fellows and runagates, even as, if they were fallen, or sent done from heaven and were saints among mortal men, which should preach, none other, but godly & heavenvly things. Where as they do pass, in filthy living the Nicolantes, and Valentynians.  Simon. 
These things have been hitherto unknown unto me. And I suppose, that they be not all plunged, with those filthy abhominationes. But what skyllithe, to them, that are good, what few among them Do commit? In the holly numbered of the apostles, judas was a traitor, and yet nevertheless was called an apostyll. Which (I suppose) could not hurt the other. Moreover they teach so excellent and godly things, of god, of shunning sins, that I can not perceive that they be so wicked, and lewd. When they are taken, they praise and laud god, they give thanks, when they are put to death they do constantly endure and sustain, dying gladly and wyllynglie. This thou canst not denay my joiada, wherefore I would gladly, that thou hadst hard them as I have.  joiada. 
I could peradventure, bring here few things, against the except I know well already, all this sort, of men and that a great while a go. But I am not ingnoraunte, how much hypocrisy can prevail, by the means of fraud and deceit. And as touching thine answer, thou sayest very well in that, that is to wit, that the wicked fact of few, shall not harm the innocent. But thou haste not yet proved, that the cause of the anabaptists is just and good, Nor thou canst not show one among them which is not commaculate, and infected with some of these said vices I mean dying, falsehood, perjury, disobedience, sedition, idleness, forsaking of their wives and children, turpitude. And though all these vices do not stick or cleave to them all at ones, yet not withstanding are they every eachone pollutid with some of them. That in the mean season I should speak nothing of their heresy, and sects, of their pertinacy, of their false & erroneous doctrine. And because thou sayest, that they speak much of god. I would feign know of thee, whether they, that do preach the gospel, do not speak of god also?  Simon. 
This they do greatly denaie.  joia. 
In this thing truly they do wrong and injury to the preachers of the gospel, testifying the contrary to the universal church, that is to say, denaiing, that by the gospel truly and sincerely preached the people is taught to put their trust, in the only and true living god through jesus Christ. In so much that among the enemies of the gospel, it is said in manner of a proverb, that priests do preach nothing else, but of god and faith only, being offended, with this preaching: Man is justified by faith alone.  Sym. 
Truly the matter is so.  joiada. 
Now therefore if the Catababtistes, do teach of god and faith otherwise, surely they do blaspheme god and seduce the people. And if they do teach, all one thing with us (for so it must be, if they do teach right, and according to the scriptures) why do they therefore separate themselves from us. Or is not that sufficient, that we teach, sith that we do teach both one thing?  Sym. 
There is one thing, that ye will not teach, that is to say, that they, which are godly, should not sin at al. And again sinners are not shunned of you Nor ye will not separate yourselves, from this polluted, and wicked world.  joiad. 
We were taught by our saviour jesus Christ, that they, that are whole, have no need of the phisycian, but they that art sick. For the Pharisees did object the same to the disciples of Christ, saying: Why doth your master eat with sinners? furthermore seeing that no man liveth without sin, not as much, as the infant of one day: we ought not to teach, that men should not sin at all, but rather to repent daily and hourly, and to beware of sin, as of a snake, and that the godly ought not to despair, if they fall, at any time As for the sins, that are committed openly, they are so exagitate or rebuked by the ministers of the church. Such severity and extreme gravity is used in rebuking, that their enemies are wont to say already, that they can none other thing, but chide and brawl. Again, touching abstention or separating, we do not see that ever Christ did the same, as long as there was any hope. We do not separate ourselves, lest we become like unto the Pharisees, Luc. xviii.  Simon. 
But sins are not forsaken.  joiada. 
And that, ought not to be imputed to the doctrine, but to them, which do not follow the teaching. The teaching and doctrine (as thou grantest thyself) is wholesome, and in it, nothing is wanting or lacking. What other thing do then, the Catababtistes, in teaching the contrary, but show their pertinacy and a certain syngularitee or love of themselves, whereby it cometh to pass, that nothing but that, which they do themselves pleaseth them? As this, is not done, without affection, so it can not be without vice.  Simon. 
And yet not withstanding, thou dost not believe, how devout they are to god, how full of constancy and gravity, how fervently they love god.  joiada. 
I can not believe, that this devotion of theirs is without blame, or is sincere and pure. For they divide the church, where no need is. For thou canst not denaie, but that god, is taught by us truly and faithfully. And that sins are reprehended and rebuked, with great liberty and constancy. What do they therefore, that we do not, save only, that they do separate themselves, from other, and are full of obstinacy? Doth not Satan also transform himself, into an angel of light? What marvel is therefore, if these impostors or deceitful persons, can feign themselves, to be sheapeherdes? They that do fish, do not cast a bare hook before the fishes, but do hide & cover it, with some pleasant and sweet bait. And Cato did say very well. Whiles the byrder, the birds beguileth, The flute alwai sweetly pipeth. Nor he is not so foolish, as for to set or lay his net before the birds eyes. Did not the bishop of Rome seduce us so many years, with his painted hypocrisy, and with his godly and divine dissimulation and fraud? But these things are gone out of remembrance, sith that we do, so lightly addict or bind ourselves, to these new impostors, and hypocrites. By what crafts, did monks get so great richesses, was it not, by flattering, and hypocrisy? Was it not, by a feigned sanctimony, and holiness of life? As for that, that they do rejoice, when they are taken, & die gladly, with praising and lauding god, thou dost so exaggerate and extol it, as though these things (if they be done) should show and prove that their doctrine is true, and that their deeds are good. If thou canst prove that, it shall follow, that theft and robbery, be just and good deeds also. For when they be punished at the gallows, or upon the wheel, they do oftentimes suffer it patiently, & moreover, do praise & laud god. Who is so foolish, to think, that he may thus make his argument? This man is tormented and punished, & yet not withstanding, doth give thanks: ergo, he is a just man & holy. If any man, should contend, that this doth follow, he must needs to grant also, that the religion of the jews, is most holy, yea, that their religion only is true. For no man▪ doth pacientlyer endure, to the very death, for his religion, than the jews do. How many heretics were there (thinkest thou) which did most constantly suffer death, testifying, which their own blood, that they had taught the truth. Do not oftentime robbers & traitors, which suffer death, according to their deserving, stiffly defend their innocency, to the last breath? Is therefore the cause of such an obstacle and desperate man, justified before god? Who doth not perceive, that the farther he is from repentance and confession, so much the worse he is  Simon. 
It is so as, thou sayest, nor I can not say, against it. But this is most to be lamented, that we, which are simple persons, are so tossed and carried to and fro, in so much, that we can not tell, what is best to be done. The anabaptists do say, that ye do err, and ye say again, that they be out of the right way. After my judgement, what misery so ever, or trouble there is, it doth come of the priests. And I do think, that there were never so troublesome times. It were peradventure better, that I following mine own mind, should believe, none of you all, doing all things after mine own appetite, and wit.  joiada. 
Thou shalt not do so, my Simon, but now, learn by thine own self what good, doth come of the anabaptists & what thou hast sucked of them, for thou dost show openly, the fruit, that is to say, desperation, and to trust in thy self, hast thou forgotten, what god hath commanded, in Deuteronomy? saying: ye shall not do every man, y●, which seemeth good unto you, but that, which the lord hath commanded. So this fantastical & new-fangled men, do entangle which themselves, other men, & cast than headlong, into all errors. But ye yourselves, are in the fault, being the authors of your one harms, for such deceitful persons, do please you. By & by, as soon as any contentious body, or some new & unaccustomed thing, doth set forth his head, ye come renning by troppes, & neither warnings nor prayers nor rebukes can avail among you. And when ye be come into the bottomless pit of misery or mischief ye put the fault in the overseers, which do give you warning before, with great fidelity & troth. Whose admonitions if ye would here, or rather give ears to the word of god preached unto you, & setforth by them, ye might live pesibly, seeing therefore, that ye cast yourselves through your onefoli, into such perplexites ye have no cause to impute it, to the faithful sheapherdes, which warned you before to beware of such things exhorting you to peace, charity, & concord, but to your own selves.  Sy. 
I have said y●, which I do think yet, that there was never a more troublous world, who so ever are the authors of it.  Io. 
wilt thou know what the matter is? this thing do stir up sedition and timulltie, that ye do make every rascal knave minister of god's word, and that without any discretion. Beside this, thou showest thiselfe utterly ignorant in histories, and unexpert of wordly things, which dost scarcely know, the acts of one age, nor doeiste not consider farther, than is at hand. If thou hadst red the holly gospels & acts of the apostles, thou shouldest have found grievouser dissensions, which did rise of the sermons of Christ and of his apostles. Finally that histories are full of tumults, which did spring in times passed, of the false opinions of Martion, Valentinus, Arrius, Nestorius Enriches, Donatus, Pelagius, and other heretics. There were great tumults and rebellions, not only of cities & towns, but also of whole realms, which were so great, that ours ought not to be compared with them. Did not both christ himself, and his apostles give warning before, that sects, should arise? Not because, that for them we should be amassed, or despair utterly, but because, that we should the more diligently watch against such pestiferous sects not only to avoid and shun them, but to resist also. Paul doth apertly say, Corin. two. that sects must be, that they which are faithful, may be known. For even as a sieve doth not lise the corn, but clensithe from chaff and darnel, so the wheat of faithful men, doth not perish by false doctrines, but is tried, the dust and chaff being sifted out. John saith: They went out from us but they were not of us, for if they had been of us they truly should had remained with us. Therefore we have need of constance & fortitude or strength, nor we ought not incontinently to forsake the stern but resist courageously the waves and storms. This constancy & perseverance in the tempest is a token that we are not light, but have believed steadfastly and well. temptations are signs or proves of faith and of the truth, and do manifest & show, how far we have believed to the true verity.  Sy. 
Thy meaning is good seeing therefore that thou showest thyself so friendly toward me, & that we have begun ones to common of these things: I will open my whole mid unto the confering many and sundry things which thee, touching Catababtisme or opinions of the Anababtistes', if so be that thou hast time & leasyr to hear me.  joiada. 
I will gladly obey the and follow thy mind. If thou hast any thing bring it forth, in god's name. Sy I do marvel, if there is no good thing, in the doctrine and opinions of the anabaptists. For unto me, it seemeth much otherwise, that is to say, that there be many things strongly grounded upon the scriptures.  joiada. 
This is all the good, that is in it, that it causeth a great meinie to read the scriptures, which else would but little, study in them. As for that which they teach well, they have it common with us, all the residue will I prove to be false and foolish. I am minded to write hereafter against them wherefore I had noted against their doctrine, certain conclusions, which the greatest part of them do hold For against such ungodly and blasphemous rennegates, which do reject the scriptures, which do affirm that the devils and ungodly or unfaithful persons shall obtain at length, the everlasting life, do denay the god head of Christ, and commit openly with out all shame such enorm and abhomynablee acts, what need is it to writ? But now will set in order my conclusions,   

The second treaty or dialogue.  
〈…〉 conclusions against the doctrine of the anabaptists, put here affirmatyvely▪ even as joiada which ●●pr●senteth the faithful christian man doth hold them.  joiada. 
That spirit, which repugnith against the meaning of the spirit that speaketh in the holy scriptures, is not from the father of truth but from the father of lies the devil.  
None of the Saints did ever by violence or force, set forth or thrust them selves in to the common office of a preacher, save only when they were sent by god, elected and chosen, by the apostles and church.  
Christ and the apostles did never trouble the church for earthly and temporal things, but did chief study to nourish the peace and unity of all the churches. It appeareth therefore, that they, which do trouble & divide any churches being well ordained & pacified in christ for such things, are seditious, liars and heretics.  
They are to be counted false prophets, which not without blasphemy & contempt of the cross of Christ, doteache, that Christ did take away only original sin, affirming that they, which do fail again, after that they be once purified, and cleansed by the water of regeneration, shall not obtain daily remission of their sins. They be also false prophets, that do attribute or adscrib justification to our own works.  
Such are blasphemous against the gospel, which do contend and affirm that the souls do sleep, after this life not knowing the nature of the soul, nor the virtue of the resurrection of Chrfst.  
Rebabtization or babtizing again, is not of god, but a new sect dividing the unity of the church, whereby the most pestiferous, and hurtful heresy, of Nonatus, Anpencius and Pelagius is renewed.  
THe babtime of young infants is of god, which hath been & did continue always in the church, since the time of the apostles unto this time, & not lately brought in, by the bishops.  
THe office or example of any christian man, compelleth not that we should not have all things in common, and nothing private, or to ourselves, but doth move & ●●●orage us to care, and see to our household, to exercise liberality and mercy.  
such are therefore ●poters & ●●●ules of Christ's flock which d● forsake their family and household, and being add●●●ed or given to seditious fables, do f●de themselves, with other men's labours, being in this thing, most like unto monks, which did the same, with their hypocrisy.  
THe preachers of the gospel, or ministers of the word of god, may have goods of their own, that is to say houses and possessions, and moreover may live of the gospel.  
THat the anabaptists are so envious, and do imagine all ways and forge calumniations and lies, who doth not see that it cometh of a hatred that they have against the preachers of the gospel, that they may creep in and advance themselves, extenuating therefore the faithfulness and fidelity of the sheapeheardes before the commons, because they may the better be, believed themselves?  
CHristen men, which are rightfully chosen, may with out any offence of god be are rule, sith that power is the minister of god.  
THis power is not only profitable, but also necessary, for christian men, therefore we must be obedient unto it, according to the doctrine of christ, Peter and Paul.  
THey which will not be obedient to the common magistrates and rulers, or do resist against them, doing them at any time wrong and reproach fullness, be not christian men, but Sanlonites  
They that refuse to make lawful oaths, unto the public rulers, do manifestly against the will of god, being authors of sedition, and all disobedience.  
THe magistrate and ruler hath the sword from God, wherewith he may smite the malefactors, and shed the blood of wicked doers, that both the malefactors may be punished and the good and righteous live surely among the wicked.  
THe liberty of a christian man is not carnal, they therefore that in the gospel, do seek carnal things and fleshly, are the fellows of Simon Magus.  
We do not learn in the gospel, that we should pay neither rents nor tithes, but that we ought to pay, our debts, unto whom so ever we own any thing.  
THe administration of bodily things doth perte●ue to the magistrates & rulers, which do christian men like, when they do after this rule: what so every will that men do unto you, do the same unto other.  
Who so ever keepeth this law & rule, may be, and remain still a christian man, though he receiveth both rents and tithes.  
These articles have I, here put generally, because that a great part of the Anababtistes' do hold against them▪ for I know, that it is impossible that any man should rehearse all their errors sith that they be infinit & without number For it is no marvel that they do fall, from one error into an other, seeing, that they have not the same spirit of truth. Which thing causeth that so diverse & contrary sects, do arise among them, that the one doth condemn and excommunicate the other.  Simon. 
If thou hadst rehearsed these articles before them, thou couldst not have done it, without a 〈…〉 and sharp answer.  joiada. 
I have proved, my Simon, and that a great while a go, their poisoned, and v 〈…〉 d hert●s, and tongues, both ready to all kind of reviling, and opprobriousues, and also more bitter, than is any worm wode, where by any man may conject and know, of what spirit, these fantastical fellows do speak. But read thou, the thryde chapter, of the epistle of saint james, and thou shalt know that I say true.  Simon. 
I pray thee, that thou wilt rehearse, out, of this chapter, the things, that most chiefly, do for our purpose,  joiada. 
These are the words of the apostle: Who is wise, and endued with knolage among you (Let him show, by his good conversation, his works, with a gentle wisdom. If so be, that ye have bitter envy and contention, in your hearts, do not ye boast of it, nor be liars against the truth. For that wisdom, is not cunning from above, but earthly beastelyke, and deavelyshe. For where tnuye and contentation, is, there is inconstancy and wicked works. But the wisdom which is from heaven or from above first is chaste, after peaceable, meake, treatable, full of mercy, and of good fruits, without rache or unadvised judgement, and simulation Hitherto have we rehearsed the words of james. Ponder and judge now, whether the holy Apostle, did not lively describe the fashions, and doctrine of the anabaptists. For what do they else, but ineth and rail against other men, and that of a despiteful envy and bitterness, oppressing them with prejudicial sentence, and judgement?  Sy. 
They promise to make an answer, before any man, and to give a reasonable account of their doctrine and learning.  
Moreover that they will suffer themselves patiently to be convicted of error.  joiada. 
Why do they promise that which they will never perform? Thou thyself haste known many (to say the truth, they do all of a pretudiciall sentence, stiflie and with great pertinacy, stand in their own opinions which said, that they were sufficiently tawght. did knowledge their error, and offered themselves to recant, yea and did forswear their error. And by and by as soon, as they were come, to their complices or fellows, they did renew their heresee, and against their oath, and all honesty beside, did obstinately defend it, What should we do with such men? Paul sayeth: Shun thou an heretic, after that thou hast warned him  or twice. Their doctrine therefore, is a certain pertenax contention, and bitter wisdom, such as Saint james doth describe.  Simon. 
In the mean season, they will never grant, thy conclusions to be true.  joiada. 
This is, that I say they be more stiff & more obstacle than doth be come any christian men, to be. But thou, that haste lived, most famylyarly with them knowest well and perfectly, their foundations, where upon they ground themselves.  Simon. 
No Anababtyst better.  joiada. 
I would therefore, my Simon. that thou shouldest now dispute against my conclusions as the anabaptists are wont to do but without stomach and contention I will endeavour myself to corroborate and streingthen them with holy scriptures, and to prove that they be true.  Sym. 
Be it as thou sayest. For I desire to be taught. Thou shalt have me also obedient. so that I may understand and perceive that thy doctrine and teaching is true. ❧   

The third treaty or dialogue.  
How that the spirit, which repugneth against the spirit, that speaketh in the scriptures, is not from the father of truth, but from the father of lies the devils.  Simon. 
first and foremost, I do marvel, what moveth thee, to put this conclusion where as after mine opinion and judgement, it is no need, thereof.  joiada. 
But, it seemeth unto me, to be very necessary. For many of the anabaptists, do boast, I can not tell, what spirit, and father, against the manifest scriptures. For when they perceive themselves, to be over comed, with holy scriptures, and so holden in that they can, by no way escape: by and by, they cry out, saying that the spiritee, teacheth them, an other thing, that is to say, either to hold their peace, or to speak forth some trifling matter▪ and that they be, neither subject, ne bound to the literal sense, or letter. In the which thing, they do no less err, than the doctoures of the bishop of Rome, which in matters of faith, will not admit the scripture to be judge, but refer all things, to their interpretation and spiritee. Is not this an high blasphemy, that a sinful man should presume, to seat himself judge, over the word and will of god? as-though he ought not, to be obedient unto it, except, he were moved, with his own spiritee, and motion, to reject, or receive it. I hard ones a papist doctor, openly in a disputation, say: that we, which teach the gospel, do teach the truth, and did allow our teaching very well, but that he could not, nor durst subscribe unto it, exrepte our teaching were adprobated and allowed, by the bishop of Rome. Behold my Simon, what abomination is this, that a mortal man should take upon him, to adprobate, & allow, the divine and heavenly verity? and set himself judge over god? Therefore have I put this conclusion in the forefront because that the anabaptists, do for the most part, boast and advance their spirit, under such pretence, deceiving the simple and rude people.  Simon. 
Doth not Paul teach this, that the letter, doth kill, and the spirit vivifieth or doth quieken? two. Corin. iii And Christ doth say. joan. xiiii. The spirit shall teach you all truth. It is spoken by the lord also, Hieremy. xxxi. Every man shall teach no more his neighbour, saying: know thou the lord, but all shall know him, from the lowest, to the highest: Finally, john doth say: It is no need, that every man do teach you, but as the unction teacheth you of all things which is true and is no lie. What canst thou say, against so manifest scriptures?  joiada. 
To the words of Paul I answer thus: That Paul speaketh there of the law, which killeth us, as he doth declare more apertly in the vii chap. to the Romans. And by the spirit, he understandeth faith, and the consolation or comfort of the gospel. That, it is so, the text of the whole chapter doth testify. Therefore this place helpeth nothing your error. For when we speak of the word of god we do not understand the bare and dead letter, or void sonnde of it. but the word well and truly understanded, and as it is, in very deed.  
And as, for that, that christ doth promise a spirit unto his disciples, teaching them all things, we do admit and believe it. But that spirit can not be contrary to christ, nor teacheth any other thing, than Chryst hath taught Therefore doth he add, by and by: teaching you, what so ever, I have said unto you. What do, these things pertain, to the spirit of the anabaptists, which teacheth contrary things to the spirit of Christ.  
The prophecies of joel, and Hieremye, are understanded of that same spirit, that Christ doth both promise and give to his disciples, as it is evidently seen, in the second chapter of the Acts, and the eight, to the hebrews. john, in his epistle, when he speaketh of the unction, doth plainly expound himself, saying: I have written unto you, that ye be not deceived (or that, ye do not suffer yourselves to be brought in to error) which thing, will then come to pass, if ye do steadfastly abide, in the doctrine of the spirit, which ye have hard at the beginning, and serve not at all, from it. The holy ghost is the spirit of truth, which can neither lie, nor repugn against himself, being all ways constant, unchangeable, every where, like unto himself.  
Now, no man can denay, but that the same everlasting, unchangeable, and holy spirit, hath inspired the holy scriptures in to holy men's hearts and minds. Whereby it followeth necessarily, that the same spirit, which speaketh against the meaning of the spirit, that doth speak and express himself in the divine scriptures, is not of god, but rather an humane main affection, which, if it be stiff, may be deseruyngly called, a deavelysshe spirit, as christ doth prove against the jues. john. viii. Or canst thou think, in thy mind, that spirit to be good, which contemneth the clear, manifest, pure and holy scriptures? and when by them, he is convicted of error, doth boast an other spirit, which should teach clean contrary things? Is not this to despise the spirit of the scriptures, and to repugn against him? As though our spirit meaneth truly, and the spirit of the scriptures most falsely? Where have the anabaptists learned, to set their spirit against the scriptures, yea and prefer him, to the holy word of god?  Simon. 
But who hath given you this libertee, to judge all things after the literal sense or letter?  joiada. 
That, we do not, as thou dost interpret the letter. But we say, that the word of god, contained in the scriptures of the Bible, is a touch stone, whereby spirits are tried. For what spirit so ever doth agree with the scriptures, is of god, the father of truth. And again what spirit so ever is contrary to the holy scriptures, is of the devil, the father of lies. Seeing therefore, that the spirit of the anabaptists, will not be ruled by the holy scriptures, but preferreth himself, to the word of god (calling by craft, the word of god, a bare letterre) yea and set set himself judge over it, he cannot be of god. For if he were of god, he would come to light and speak that same thing, that the holy ghost doth speak in all the holy scriptures. But now, sith that he doth not depend of the scriptures, but will be at his own liberty, it is a token that it is a craft and subtlety of the devil, which doth always scatter & repugn against god.  Sy. 
Thou speakest these things mightily and strongly, but without the word of god. And this is your familiar custom, to speak many things without scriptures. As touching the spirit, what he teacheth, I have brought and alleged places and testimonies out of the scriptures. But that the spirit ought to be tried by scriptures, or rather mancipated and bound unto them, and not be at his own liberty, it is thy part for to prove. Or peradventure thou dost prefer the creature unto the creator.  Ioi. 
What, and if I should say also: My spirit hath taught me this thing. What couldst thou do or say unto me?  Sym. 
But that is not to answer.  Ioi. 
Nor ye do not answer sufficiently, when ye boast your spirit, without or against the scriptures. But in this thing we do learn, that when it pleaseth you, ye use the scriptures, & again when ye see to be expedeent, ye boast, and advance your spirit. When I affirm that the spirit must be tried by the scriptures, I do not mancipate nor subdue the creator unto the creature, but I will that the thing which is uncertain, be tried & proved, by that, which is certain, and that any spirit, be tried, by the holy spirit of god, that is to say by the scriptures, whether he agreeth with himself or not. And if he be like every where unto himself to be received, if not, to be refused & rejected, as false & deceitful. But when ye speak of the spirit, ye do understand a bare creature. For your spirit is not the holy ghost, but a carnal affection.  Sy. 
Ye do yet without any scriptures of the Bible enhance and magnify, the letter.  Io. 
Not so, but rather, we here ground ourselves, both upon the scriptures of god, and upon examples.  Sy. 
Show therefore, that the truth, must be tried, by the scriptures, & not rather with a free spirit, without scriptures.  Io. 
By thy words, do I perceive, what thing doth beguile you, that is, that ye do sever these ii things, being united & invisebly knitted together, that is to say, the spirit & the scriptures, which can nor aught to be separated asunder, the one from the other. For when we name the scriptures, we do understand the expressed word of that spirit. For as the voice, or sound of the word, can in no wise be separated, from the lively breath of the living creature So the scriptures can not be divided from the spirit that inspireth them for the scripture, is the expressed will of god, but now will I bring the testimonies & places with thou requirest, our lord jesus Christ, unto whom the heavenly father, did give witness from heaven, & who hath received the holy ghost, after no measure, did not despise the scriptures, in so much that he did corroborate all his sayings, by them only, and did command that the jews should try both his words and facts, by the scriptures. Ihon. v. and Luke xvi. He biddeth them to lift up their eyes to Moses & the prophets, and not to apparent spirits. He reproving also the saducees, did show that this was the cause of their error, be cause that they were ignorant in scriptures, or neglected them Mark xii The Apostles (as we may understand by the book of the Acts) did receive abundantly in the beginning, the holy ghost & that by a certain visible token. And yet not withstanding, did they not therefore forsake or contemn the scriptures, nor boast their spirit against them. But rather did prove & strengthen all their sermons, with the word of god preaching nothing else, but the pure and plain scriptures. These things are evidently proved, by the epistles of Peter. john doth plainly show and teach that the spirits ought, to be tried, whether they be of god or not i Io. iiii. Whereby, it is evident enough, that spirits ought to be tried, and that they be not so free, as the Anahabtistes will have them. And how they must be proved, it is manifestly declared in that place. Paul which was ravished, in to the third heaven, and did learn his gospel of jesus Christ, being himself, the chosen vessel of god, full of the holy ghost, and heavenly wisdom, never the less before the king Agrippa, he doth testify, that he did teach nothing beside Moses, and the prophets. Act. xxvi. In the epistle to the Galathians, the first chapter, he saith thus: if I, or an angel of heaven, should preach unto you, any other thing, than ye have hard, let it be anathema, or accursed, He also warning and teaching Tymothe, that be should beware of false and erroneous doctrines, did direct and send him, to the reading of scriptures. But read thou the three chapter of the second epistle, to Tymothe, and it shall appear, what we ought to judge and think of the Anababtistes' sect, what of the spirit, and of the scriptures.  Sy. 
That place, is known well enough, and I am almost persuaded. But this vexed my mind, that Paul saith that a spiritual man, judgeth all things, but he is judged of no body.  joiada. 
I long to know of thee, of what spirit, Paul doth speak there.  Simon. 
But I have leaver to hear it, of the  joiada. 
Considre the words, that go before. For he saith thus: We have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit, which is of god, that we may know what things, have been given unto us by Chryst.  Simon. 
But to what purpose did Paul speak here, of the holy ghost.  joiada. 
I ask of thee, whether that same self spirit did not inspire the scriptures.  Simon. 
Truly, that same self spirit.  joiada. 
Seeing therefore, that it is all one, and both the same spirit, that Paul speaketh of here, and that which speaketh in the scriptures, have I not proved, that Paul, by a spiritual man did not understand him, which boasteth, I can not tell, what spirit, despising in the mean season the scriptures, but such a spiritual man, as is and will be ruled and governed by the holy ghost, that way, that he showeth and expresseth himself, in the holy scriptures? He therefore that striveth against the holy scripture and inspiration of the holy ghost, can not be that spiritual man, whom Paul doth speak of. Now, if he be not spiritual, he can not judge, but he must be judged. The anabaptists therefore can judge nothing, but aught to be judged and tried, by the word of god. Hath not here the spirit of the Anababtistes lost both his win wings? But I do remember other two. places, which do utterly stop the mouths of the Catababtistes. The first is, in the ten chapter of the Acts, touching Cornelius the centurion, which although he was elected by god, yet not withstanding, being so tawght by the angel, did send messengers, to fetch Peter, that he might hear by him, the preaching of our saviour jesus christ. If that, the spirit should disannul and abolish the scriptures, it should follow, that this outward preaching and such like things, were done in vain. The other is in the xvi chapter, concerning the Thessaloniens, which after that they had hard the preaching of Paul, did daily seek and search the scriptures, to know, whether Paul did teach true or not. Which thing, they would not have done, if the spirits should not be tried by the scriptures wherefore what so ever the anabaptists do teach concerning this thing, is false and erroneous, and not unlike unto the error of Montanus.  Sym. 
What monstrous thing is that?  joiada. 
This Montanus about xiii hundred years a go, was a great heretic, who did almost speak of the spirit, as the anabaptists do. For they do call in again, the old & abolished errors, as it shall appear hereafter.  Sym. 
Go forth I pray thee, and let us discuss the arguments of the second conclusion. For I can not believe that none of the saynttes (which thing thou dost affirm stiffly) did thrust themselves, into the office of common preachers, except they were called. What other thing is this, but (as the bishop of Rome hath done in times passed) to hide the truth from the commons, that none, save only they, that are learned, dare speak and talk of it? Where as, not withstanding, god did manifest himself to the little ones and not to the wise. Matthew. xi.  joiada. 
I will do it gladly, but I will first confute that, which thou bringest of the learned, & of the simple. For it is not convenient, that I should pass over these things unspoken, sith that therewith ye do blind the eyes of the simple and rude people.   

The four treaty, or dialogue touching simplicity and erudition.  Simon. 
IS this, to blind the eyes of the simple, & rude people, christ himself, did say so, when he gave thanks unto his father, because that he hath revelated & showed such high, godly and divine mysteries, not to the wife's, but to the little ones, & to the simple. Ma. xi. And again, he did not chose learned men but simple and idiots, to be his apostles i Cor. i. Therefore we have no need of great learning, but the simpler that any man is, the more apt is he, to this office.  joiada. 
It is manifest and evident, that ye understand not the words of Chryst. For if by the simple, he should understand them, that lack wisdom and learning (for so ye expound the words of Christ) truly no man should be more apt, than fools and diserdes, which be in deed ignorant in all manner of things. But every man doth see, that it is against all reason, to think any such thing. Therefore Christ understandeth by simplicity an other thing.  Simon. 
Tell you what it is.  joiada. 
He is called a simple man, not he that is without wit, without reason and wisdom, but he which is plain and sincere, and without fraud, he which is good, and true inwardly in his heart, being without craft and deceit. else it would come to pass, that every man should defend his error, by ignorancy. Which thing, what could be else, but a carnal malice or liberty, whereby every man would begin and go about, to boast and set forth his ignorancy, and therewith to defend his errors? Who did ever see, such temerarious audacitee, as these shameful runagates do use? that with their ignorancy and rudeness dare defend any thing? By ignorancy truly, errors are detected, and not confirmed.  Simon. 
Yet, the apostles were ignorant and unlearned, nor we do not read, that Chryst did choose any that were learned.  joiada. 
Truly they were endued with such simplicity, as we have spoken of afore. But they were not unlearned and ignorant. For they were familiarly conversant with christ, above three years, with Christ, I say, in whom are, all the treasures wisdom of & knowledge, yea, which is himself, that eternal wisdom of the heavenly father. Of this fountain drank they abundantly, by this master, were they instituted and tawght, and at length were so endued, and illuminated with the holy ghost that they were ●unnynge in all tongues & scriptures. That may be seen, both by their writings and also by their acts. As for that, that thou denaiest, that christ did call none, which were learned, dost thou not repugn here against the manifest truth? Paul was exceedingly well learned.  
Barnabas, gamaliel, Nicodedemus, & Apollo the Alexandrian were great clerks. That in the mean season, I should pass over all the other, that is to say, Moses, which was learned in all the sciences of the Egipcians Steven, isaiah, Timothe, look better upon the xiii chap. of the first epistle, to the Corinthians, and upon the first chap. of the epistle, to Citus, and thou shalt find what erudition and learning an overseer or bishop ought to have. Therefore, these arrogant & presumptuous anabaptists, can not excuse nor defend, their impudent ignorancy, by simpleness, but that it is already manifest unto the world that they are given into a reprobate sense, as they, that be not ashamed, to boast, and to set forth unto all men, their ignorancy, in stead of good learning, as though children, do not smell already, their craft & subtilty. But in the mean season, no man ought thus, to interpret our sayings as though we should speak here, of them, that are falsely, called learned men. For we speak of such, as have been taught, by god & to the glory of god. Of whom, there were many, in the primitive church, as Pantonus, Tertulian, Cyprian, Lactantius, Augustine, and many other.  Sy 
Thou speakest, with good reason. For we ought not to think that christ did commend such simplicity, whereby the unconnynger that a man is, the bolder he should be. As many, which though they can scarcely read the vulgar tongue, yet not withstanding, do without shame, ingerate & thrust themselves, in to the office of preachers, stamering most foolysshely in the common pulpit, But because they should not be found to be ignorant, in some thing: they begin first to excuse their ignorancy, with such words. Be not ye offended, obrethernes, that I am ignorant and unlearned. For the father, doth manifest himself to the simple and unlearned. Finally, seeing that Christ, doth promise, to his disciples such wisdom, and eloquence, that their adversaries, should not be able to withstand it (where as, on the contrary part, these men do reckon their ignorancy, to be a glorious thing unto them) I may easily perceive, that these are not such simple persons as christ doth speak of, but rather such, as do cloth them selves, in sheapes skins, feigning themselves, to be sheapes, but inwardly, within their hearts, are ravening wolves. But now, I pray thee, to take that away quickly, which offendeth me in the second conclusion.  
❧   

The .v. treaty or dialogue.  
Of the vocation and office of preachers, against them, that ingerate themselves being uncalled.  joiada. 
AS for that, that thou gatherest, by this conclusion, that so, it should not, be iaufull for every man, to speak and talk of god, thou goest far out of the way, and dost not understand my sayings. I speak of common preaching, and not of private communication or talk. For he that taketh upon him to be a common preacher, not being called, doth raven as he, that maketh himself, by his own authority, a king or governor, making & calling together a particular Senate or counsel, & beginneth thus, of his own head, to rule and administrate the common wealth, commanding, and forbidding what so ever pleaseth him. Truly, no man, can do this, but that he shallbe accused, not only of foolishness & disobedience, but also of tumultee, and high treason. else, we do not denaie, but that every man may talk of god, yea & may sing of him, according to the doctrine of Paul four Ephesy. And the more, that it is done, the better we allow it. But to separate himself from the church to seek woods & corners, & there to assemble a company, to institute & ordain sects and to take upon themselves, being uncalled, & unsent, the office of preachers: not only, it hath no example, in the holy scriptures, but hath been judged and condemned always as heretikall. But we will now, corroborate and strength these sayings, with holy scripture. In the epist. to the Rom. x. chap. Paul teacheth after this manner: who so ever calleth upon the name of the lord, shallbe saved. But how can they call upon him, in whom they have not belued? and how shall they believe in him, of whom they have not hard? And how can they hear without a preacher? And again how shall they pray: the, except they be sent? By these words of Paul, we may perceive, that sending is very necessary, which doth not equally pertain unto all men. For Paul i Corin. xii saith, that there be many gifts. And even as the body is one thing, and hath many limbs, which limbs, though they belong all to one body, yet nevertheless, have not all own office, in the body, so it is in the church, and mystical body of christ. God did put and ordain some, in the church, to be apostles, some to be prophets and interpreters of scriptures, some to be teachers, some to be potestates and rulers, sum to have the gifts of healing, sum to minister to the poor, sum to govern, and sum again to have the knowledge of tongues. If so be, that the office of teaching, should equally pertain unto all men: Paul would have said, that god had ordained all, to be prophets, and teachers, but he sayeth: he hath ordained sum to be apostles. etc. Why dare then the anabaptists presume so much, as for to set themselves forth, by their own authority, to preach & to teach, against the doctrine of Paul? hebrews .v. No man (saith he) doth usurp, or presumptuousli take that honour unto himself, but he, which is called by god, as Aaron, so christ did not glorify himself to be made bishop, but he that said unto him. Thou art my son and to day have I begotten the. And in an other place: Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchysedecke. After this manner doth john Babtiste, testify of the mission and sending of christ in the first, and third chapter of john. And of his own sending, doth he himself speak, in the i cha. of john, saying: There was a man sent by god, whose name was john when he was also asked, by what authority he did teach and babtize, he did bring forth out of isaiah and Malachi, a testimony and witness of his mission and sending. So the apostles were both called and sent, as it appeareth, by the x. and xxviii of Matthew, by the last of Mar. and twenty of Io. Paul doth testify in the beginning of his epistles, and specially in the epistle to the Galathians, that he was called. In the xiii of the Act. he with Barnabas, is segregated by the holy ghost and sent to preach. In Moses also, & in all the prophets their mission and sending is manifested. But against them that do run, being not called, and without sending do preach, in the xxiii of Hieremy, the lord speaketh thus They did run, but I sent them not. Therefore, I do think, that this conclusion is sufficiently proved, and that it is manifest enough, that the Anababristes do not in this thing, behave themselves well and godly, which, though they be not called, doingerate and thrust them selves, in to the office of preachers Which thing (as we do read) was never done by none of the Saints.  Simon. 
All this that thou hast brought, doth nothing against the anabaptists For they say, that they be sent, by the father, and by the holy ghost.  joiada. 
To what thing or for what purpose. Symo●. To teach the truth, to preach of god, and to rebuke sin. joiada. It is proved before (as thou thyself haste granted) that we do, the same thing, in those places, where the gospel is preached. What need have we then of this mission, and sending of the anabaptists. To these places where the gospel is preached, god doth not send men to plant and set errors, to move sedition, and to teach contrary doctrine, to the truth, to separat and make division in the church. But the anabaptists, do all these things, therefore, they be not sent by god. For god, is not the god of dissension, but of peace, and concord, i Corin. xiiii.  Simon. 
They say always, that they be sent of god.  joiada. 
They do say so in deed, but not truly. For Satan can transform and transfigurate himself into an angel of light two. Corin xi but he is not therefore a good angel.  Simon. 
Is it not written in the. iix. cha. of john, that he, which is of god speaketh the word of god? the Anababtistes do preach the word of god, therefore, they be sent of god.  joiada 
Arrius did preach the word of god. That is to say, the father is greaterthan I am, ergo he was sent by god.  Simon. 
Not so.  joiada. 
Is not this the word of god, the father, is greatterthan I am?  Simon. 
He did preach the word of god being falsely understanded, wrething and wresting the scriptures, ergo he was not sent, of god.  joiada. 
The anabaptists do the same, therefore they be not sent by god, though, they do never so much boast and crack, that they do preach the truth and word of god. Which thing, all the heretics did before, and Satan also doth usurp the word of god, Matthew four but it followeth not, that he is sent by god. That saying, which thou hast brought out of the iii chapter of john, pertaineth only to christ, who because that he was come from god, hath perfit knowledge, of divine and heavenly things. Which thing john Babtiste, goeth about to prove to his disciples.  Simon. 
The anabaptists do say, that ye do depravate the scriptures.  joiada. 
It skilleth not what they say, which are nothing shamed to lie, as it shall manifestly appear hereafter. For sith that by this authority taken out of the. iii chapter of john, and applied to christ alone, they ascribe unto themselves that, which belongeth to christ only: who doth not perceive and see, that they be enemies of the truth. We know, what sklanderous words they do vomit out, and speak against us, calling us thieves, robbers, antichrists, false prophets, and seductors. We do impute this to the weakness of the flesh, and forbear for Christ'S sake. We might clear ourselves, if need were, & prove that they do belie us. But so they have need to prove, that they be sent of god, by other things than by sklanderous words and railings.  Sy. 
I can not say none other, but that I have hard them say, that they are sent of god.  joiada. 
No doubt there is, but that they be ignorant, and know not, which way, god doth call, & what are the tokens and signs of vocation and sending. For they, that are called & sent of god, are manifested by certain tokens and signs which do follow, that it may appear, that they be truly called and sent either by miracles, or by manifest vocation and sending, but specially by dexterity or aptness, integreted of life, constancy and steadfastness, erudition and learning, worthy such sending and vocation.  Simon. 
what, and if ye do feign all this, without scriptures?  joiada. 
I will prove all, that I have said by the word of god. A little afore, that christ did depart from his apostles, he did send them, unto the world, to preach the gospel, unto all creatures, but before, that they should take in hand this office, they should tarry a while in Nierusalem till they were endued with grace from above. For he did promise unto them, to send the promised spirit and comfort our of the father upon them. And after, that they had ones received the holy ghost, with it, they did receive, the knowledge of all sciences, speeches, & tongues. Luc. xxiiii. Act. two. when Moses did draw back, and did bring many excuses, knowledging himself, to be without utterance, uneloquent, chyldisshe, and unmeet for that office, that god would have sent him to: the lord, did promise, that he would be in his mouth, as, he did also promise to his apostles, such mouth and wisdom, that no man should be able to resist against it. Matthew ten Paul writing to Tymothe and Titus, concerning the election of bishops, requireth such one, as, is apt to teach, able to exhort with wholesome doctrine, which can revycte, and confound them, that resist and withsaie the truth i Timothe, iii. Titus i There Paul doth forbid, that none of them, which were newly converted, should be admitted to the office of a preacher. Netherto, have I brought places and testimonies out of the scriptures, touching the learning, that aught to be in an overseer or bishop. Now shall we hear, what the scriptures do testify and witness concerning the miracles of them, that are sent. We do therefore allege here the wonders, that Moses did show, in Egypte and other innnmerable signs, and tokens, that be written in the Acts, the manifest imposition of hands, and that they did receive the holy ghost visebly. Moreover that they, which be sent, aught to be lawfully elected and chosen by a common assent, we do dring the first chapter of the Attes, upon the election of Mathias the seven. and xiii of the Acts upon the election of Steven Paul and Barnabas. The xiii chap. also of the Acts doth manifestly show, that Paul and Barnabas, when they had created, thorough all the churches by a general election priests or seniors, laying their hands upon them, and had made their prayers with fasting, did commit them unto the lord, in whom they had believed. Now thou seest, my Simon, that in the times of the apostles. every man did not rashly advance nor set for the himself to preach. For if it had been so, what should have needed any election, and imposition of hands? But election was made after prayers & fasting. The same is also written in the epistle to Titus.  Sy. 
What, & if thou findest all such things, among the anabaptists?  Io. 
Not the less jot, of all the above rehearsed things, ergo they are not sent by god, but sensualitee and ipmpudent boldness, did impel & move them. For, what miracles do they? except, these are, to be called miracles, that they, with their pernicious doctrine, do bring men, out of their right, and godly mind, in to stark madness, or, that they, make the gammons, and legs of bacon, hanging in the larders, of the simple and poor people, invisible? What learning, should we look for, where rudeness, and (as they do speak themselves) simplicity, is taken for high rudition? I do pass over here, many of them, which can scarcely read, yea and what will ye say of them, that can read no manner of thing Are not these, the neophites (by the neophites, I mean not only them, that are newly converted, but such as do lack learning) that Paul do reject? But they promote them, that by all their lives time, did never read the Bybles, having only in readiness, certain sentences, not understanded, which being, either plucked out, of all parts of scripture, or stolen, or else borrowed, of their guides & leaders, they do wreath, wrest & turn to contention, which all maledicence, & reviling. And so, standing among the simple people, have always in their tongues ends, the father of heaven and the spirit. What name, my Simon, may conveniently, be given unto them? I may not call them apostles, for they are not sent, by god. Again, they do not preach where nothinn hath been yet preached of god but where the people, hath been a long season, & with the great labour of the true and faithful ministers, taught the way of truth there do they break in, destroying, perverting, &, as a storm or tempest, stirring up, all things, making the commons so perplexed, and doubtful, that they know neither end nor beginning. If any man, should call them prophets and expositors of the scriptures, it were none other thing, but to call a filthy swine, an excellent & cunning Musician. For they are ignorant in all manner of tongues, in so much, that they do contemn them, being content with the vulgar tongue only, If thou callest them doctors, they know nothing less, than the right way and trade of teaching, Besides, that they want the truth, which is chief required in a teacher. But peradventure, they will be called bishops and sheapherdes. Why do y● lack then all such excellent gifts, as Paul requireth in a teacher or bishop In so much that they be unlearned, strivers, contentious and rude neophites? Briefly they have nothing, that pertain to the office of a teacher. Whereby any man may perceive, that the anabaptists, are such, as do send themselves, being perplexed, seditious debateful, & ambitious heretics.  Sy. 
They be both chosen, and sent.  Ioi. 
By whom?  Sy. 
By their church Moreover, one brother, doth lai his hand upon that other, giving him full power & authority.  Io. 
This sending, & election, maketh me, to remember the bishop of Rome, for after, that the bishop of Rome, did once get & purchase unto himself, thorough disobedience, tyranny and pernicious craft, such great power: by and by, did he promote to bisshoprykes, every mule keeper, bawds and bloody soldiers▪ But, who did teach them, to sever and divide the church, being united, and glued with faith, and charity? saying that there is but one God, one faith one babtyme, and one church? Who hath sent the authors of this sect, to make and congregate a new church? Truly, amulation, envy, strife, contention, avarice, ambition, and stiff pertinacy. I could well and sufficiently prove all these things. except, I should here wittingly, spare some people. Their Church therefore, is not the Church of God, but a certain sect, and congregation of stiffnecked and disobedient people, among whom, there is no more just election, then is in the company of rebels & traitors, which forsaking their own prince or governor, do retchely, & without advisement choose, this man or that man, to be their captain. But let us grant, that it is a Church, yet not withstanding, they err in election, which is not used among them, according to the precepts of the apostle, Donatus, did gather a particular Church. Nonatus likewise, & both in Africa. And yet not withstanding, none of them both, was called or sent by god. And their Church also, were no Churches, but conventicles or assembles of Heretics.  Simon. 
What thinkest thou by the saying of s, Paul i Corin. xiiii. where he doth give free liberty, unto all men to preach, or interpret the Scriptures.  joiada. 
I am of the same self opinion, that Paul is: Two or three (saith he) may speak in the church: Let the other hear and judge. Finally, if it be revelated to an other sitting by, let the other hold his peace.  
And by and by it followeth: For ye may all prophecy, one after another, that all may learn and have cousolation.  Simon. 
By these words, it appeareth. that Paul doth not give liberty to every man, to preach what he listeth, when he nameth two. or iii and biddeth the other to hear, & to give attendance to that that the Prophets (in the new Testament, such, as do expound the scriptures are called Prophets) do expound and set forth out of the scriptures. Nor he doth not give lysence to the hearers, to interrupt the sermons of the Prophets, except it be, when any thing is left or perversely expounded by the Prophet, or interpreter. By this, it followeth, that it is not seemly ne comely, that any man should interrupt, if the truth be sufficiently enucleated & showed, much less, that any man should, under such pretence and colour sew in, or bring in his errors. I do see & perceive, that the effect of the matter doth consist, in this thing: If it be necessary, if any thing be omitted and left, by them that are Prophets, that ought not to be omitted, or which being left, may do harm: and again, which being showed, may edifis the church, that then it may be showed unto them, by any man, but that, with all soberness and charity. If nothing be wanting or lacking, all the audience to hold their ptace.  joiada. 
Thou takest the right sense of it. For it followeth by and by: The spirit of the Prophets, is subject to the Prophets. For God is not the auctor of confusion, but of peace. The Holy ghost doth not break forth rashly, & with affection and strife, but is treatable: nor he doth not stiffly contend for every light matter, but suffereth himself to be instructed, and taught: & so giveth easily place, to him that hath better understanding. But the anabaptists are far from all such things, boasting nevertheless a spirit, but as judas did boast his Apostleship: sayut james, did not without a cause, warn us, saying: Let not many masters be among you, knowing that we shall receive greater damnation or judgement, that is to say: we that are teachers.  Simon. 
But here thou haste brought me into a greater doubt: For now I ask thee: Whether of them two▪ is greater, the Prophet. unto whom the spirit is subject, or the spirit? If thou sayest, that man is greater, than the spirit, beware that thou dost not attribute to much to a mortal and frail man. If the spirit is higher, how can that thing, which is greater, be subject to a thing, that is less. If so be, that thou preferrest the spirit unto men, & again will have the saying of Paul to be true, I do not perceive, by what reason it can stand. Or how can a man be greater, than the Spirit, which maketh him a Prophet?  joiada. 
Thou doest ask right well this question. But it is to be noted, that Paul doth not here take the spirit for the holy ghost, which is the third person in trinity, but for the gift & operation of the spirit of God. The sense and meaning of this place, is therefore, that the gift of prophecy, is so in the power of the Prophet, that hath it, that he may both speak, & hold his peace, in the congregation of the saints, when, and as long, as it is expedient for the hearers. For they are not so instructed and moved, with the spirit, as mad, and fantastical men are, that they should all cryout at once, with an unseemly clamour, murmuring one against another, with a debateful contention & strife: For so, one could not understand another. The spirit of God is gentle, treatable. and peaceable, not stirring or moving any man to contention, and debate, but to peace and unity. Wherefore he sayeth: ye may Prophecy all, one after another. To the which exposition, Theophilactus, agreeth, interpreting this place, after this manner: The spirit, that is to say, the grace of the holy ghost, which is in thee, the operation or working, that hath invaded thee, is subject to the gift or grace of another man, which is moved to Prophecy, that is to say, doth give place & hearing. But now, if thou be so pleased, let us go about the third Conclusion.  Simon. 
I am well content, begin thou.   

The. VI treatise or Dialogue.  
Of the Unity of the Church, against the Sects of the Anabaptistes.  joiada. 
IChynke, that thou wilt say nothing against the third conclusion: For, what can be said more truly, then that Christ, and his Apostles, did always congregate, or assemble the Church, and that they did never tumultuate or move sedision, for outward and temporal things. Or is there any man, that can say the contrary?  Simon. 
I will show him unto the by & by, that is to say, Christ, which doth say: I am come, not to bring peace, but the sword.  joiada. 
Thou doest writhe and wrest the words of Christ: For he speaketh nor these words of his Church, that they should disagree within themselves, as the Anabaptistes do move tumult, in those churches, where Christ and the Gospel is preached sincerely, but doth express the nature of the infidels, which do persecute the faithful. For, wheresoever Christ is preached, they that are godly, do receive and embrace him gladly: and they that are ungodly, do both let and persecute Christ and his Disciples. Now Christ doth call this dissension a sword: which sword is not among the godly in the Church: but the infidels do use it against them that are godly. Doth not isaiah say, that there is no peace to the ungodly. The cognisance or badge of them that are godly, is Charity, Peace, and Concord. Wherefore, the Lord, doth call them, that be peaceable, or love peace, blessed, and children of God. Mat. v.  Symou. 
I do easily grant, that peace and unity ought to be, in the Church. But that Christ, and his Apostles did never move sedition for temporal things, thou dost affirm it scantly.  joiada. 
yea, and truly also, or else show thou the contrary.  Simon. 
In the xu chap. of the Acts, we do read that Paul and Barnabas, had no small dissension, and reasoning against them, which did teach circumcision. Who will deny, circumcision to be an outward thing?  joiada. 
I understand & call outward things, that do help nothing to our salvation, pertaining to the body, more, then to the soul, and which being necessari to the body, do, in process of time, wax old, waste, and consume away, such as be, condition, richesse, and gross elements of this world. But circumcision, was not taught by the false prophets, as an outward thing, but as a necessary & needful thing to salvation: which they did very urgently and instantly persuade, that it should be observed & kept, yea, and all the whole law beside. Hereof, did rise the disputation, which is written of, in the xv. chap. of the Acts Else Paul did circumcise, Timothy, for peace and tranquillity sake, and because that he would not offend certain weak brethren, in the Church: but after that, some men did urgently bring in, circumcison, as necessary, Paul did greatly repugn, & would not suffer Titus to be circumcised xvi of the Acts ii Galat. This sedition therefore that thou aledgest here, hath a greater cause, than an outward thing.  Sy. 
How darest thou call richesses outward things, which do exclude a man from the kingdom of Heaven? For Christ sayeth that it is easier for a camel, to go thorough the eye of a nydle. then for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of Heaven.  Io. 
We do know well enough the false sighings and tears of the Crocodyle, which, these light and inconstant anabaptists, do pour down daily, despising richesses, none other wise, than the Fox, did in times past despise, the sweet grapes, that she could not come by. Richesses, are by themselves neither good, nor evil, but the use, doth make them either good, or evil. If thine eye be simple, and lightsome, all the body shall be lightsome: but if thine eye be wicked and evil, all thy body shall be darkness. Mat. vi. Therefore, if a rich man be faithful and godly, the richesses that he hath, be good, and that, by reason of the good use. If the master or owner of the richesse, is unfaithful or an infidel, his richesses are nought. Luke xvi Such, do christ speak of, when he bringeth in, the similitude of the camel. and of the eye of the needle. There were innumerable, both in the old & new Testament, which, in great richesses were called no small friends of God: as Noah, Abraham, Lot, Isaac, jacob. job, joseph, etc. Which in the midst of their richesse, did cleave unto God, with a sincere heart, and good faith. Look what opinion Paul hath of this thing, and what he writeth of it i Timoth. vi. Therefore, I care not what these hypocrites do babble and prate, sith that the richemen may do good to the poor, in Christ's Church, which occasion they that have no richesse do lack. To what purpose or intent do then these mad brains, trouble all the world for trifling and unnecessary things? I do know sum, which, if they had as much as they do lack, through their own negligence and slugherdnesse, they would find by and by a way, to justify their unjust and evil gotten goods.  Sy. 
I do let that pass, I pray thee, to prove the second conclusion. Peradventure I shall learn somewhat by it.  joiada 
That Christ did never cause tumult, for outward things, but did always study to peace & tranquillity, we will bring the xvii of Matthew, where he speaketh to Peter after this manner: Lest we do offend them (that is to say, that do receive the didragme) go thy way to the sea, & cast in, thy hook, and the first fish that cometh, open his mouth, & thou shalt find a stater, take it and give it for the & me. In the. xxii of Math, when he was asked, of the yearly tribute, that was paid unto Ceasar, he did so fly from tumult, that he did iyone both god and Ceasar together, bidding them to pay their duty to each of them. Nor, he did not condemn them, that did receive. Nor again he did not say: Blessed are they, which do give. He did not say: ye own nothing by God's law, but notwithst anding give: woe be, unto him, that doth receive. In the xiii of john, Christ doth so teach his Disciples: I give you a new commandment, that ye love each other, as I have loved you. By this, shall all men know that ye be my Disciples, if ye love each other. And incontinent in that long sermon that he made unto his Disciples, after his Maundy, he doth chiefly speak of the Spirit of the faithful. And a little afore, he should send his Apostles, he did say: Peace unto you, as my father hath sent me, so I send you. The xiiii chap. Rom. Paul sayeth: The kingdom of God, is neither meat nor drink, but righteousness, peace and gladness in the holy ghost. For, he that serveth unto christ in those things, is accepted both before GOD, and before men. Therefore, let us follow that, which belongeth to peace, and edifying, one toward another. In the i Cor. i. he doth exhort the Corinthians, after this manner: I beseech you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Ihesu Christ, that ye do speak all one thing, and that there be no dissensions among you, but that ye be one whole body, of one mind & opinion. Let no such contentions be among you, that one should say: I am Cephas disciple, another, I am Paul's: an other, I am Christ's. Is Christ divided: was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized, in the name of Paul? When ye do say so, are ye not yet carnal? Moreover, look, & consider what Paul writeth in the xii. cha. to the Cori. exhorting them to concord & charity, by the example of the body and the limbs. In the xiiii he sayeth apartelye, that God is not author of dissension, but of concord and peace, which thing may be seen, in the Churches of the faithful. In the four to the Ephesians, Paul doth exhort us, to behave ourselves, and walk so, as it doth become the vocation wherewith, we are called, with all obeisance & lowliness, with gentleness of heart, forbearing each other through charity, and that we should study to keep the unity of the spirit by the bound of peace, being (saith he) one body & one spirit, as ye are called in one hope, of your vocation. There is but one Lord, one faith, one Baptism, one God and father of us all▪ etc. In the▪ two. chap. to the Philippians, with like study, exhorteth he, the faithful to be of like affection, to have between themselves, love & charity, to be of like mind & like judgement, and that nothing should be done among them, by contention or vainglory. But by humility & lowliness of heart, every man should think an other man, to be more excellent, than he is himself. etc. Are not these, sufficient testimonies?  Sy. 
What do these things against the Anabaptistes?  Io. 
Very much, for they prove and show manifestli, that the Anabaptistes be authors of tumult and sedition.  Sy. 
What is that?  Ioi. 
That is to say, that they against all good order, and example of the Apostles, do make strife & contention in the Church of Christ, & that only for certain outward trifles.  Sy. 
But they do teach many things of God and of faith. What outward things are they, wherefore they do make division in the Church?  Ioi. 
If they should preach none other thing, but of God, of faith, charity and innocency of life, it should be no need of this separation. For these things are taught also in our Churches. so that it is no need at all, that they should preach. But they separate themselves therefore, because that they teach these things hereafter rehearsed, that is to say: That we have need of a new baptism, and that a Christian man may not receive rents, nor revenues: That Christian men are free from paying of tithes: That a christian man may not bear rule or be a magistrate: That no man is bound to make a lawful oath, when he is commanded, by the magistrates: And also they do take away richesses from christian men. Are not these, outward things? And again, do they not for such things divide & trouble the Church? Beside that, they do bind their disciples, that they shall not hear the word of God among them, where baptism of children is used, rents and tithes paid, any lawful oath is made, magistrates be, & richesses are counted good. Now call in remembrance, the places and testimonies, that we have brought and alleged afore, of Christ, & of his Apostles, & ponder well, whether this separation, is Apostolical, or seditious.  Sy. 
It skilleth not that ye call them seditious. For that did chance to Christ, and to his Apostles, to be accused of tumult & sedition. But in this thing, they do praise God, and give thanks, that they be counted worthy, to suffer for the name of jesus, remembering what Christ sayeth: Blessed are ye when men do curse you, and speak all evil against you, rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven.  joia. 
Why dost thou leave that clause which Christ added unto it, when he was speaking such things?  Sy. 
What have I left?  joia. 
Lying (saith he) for my sake. That we do call the Anabaptistes seditious, it is not done for Christ's sake, but because, that they do divide Churches being well ordered and pacified, for the things afore named. The which thing never Christ nor his Apostles did. Nor we do not lie, when we accuse them of tumult, and sedition. For the thing is so manifest, that it can not be denied. But they that imputed such things to Christ, and to his Apostles did lie, and did not say true, as it appeareth by the xxiii. of Luke, the xvi & xxiiii of the Acts. There were some which did falsely report, that they preached against paying of Tribute, unto Ceasar, seducing the commons, and moving sedition, which things were not true. For neither christ, nor his Apostles did it, but rather taught the contrary always. But the Anabaptistes, because, that they repugn against public magistrates or rulers, and go about to abolysshe the ordinance of God, are rightfully called tumultuous, rebels and seditious heretics.  Simon. 
I would gladly (if I might obtain that thing of thee) that thou shouldest leave, that word, Heretic: For as often as I hear it, I do all quake and tremble in my heart.  joia. 
When I do say heretic, I do not understand him, that the rude & unlearned people doth mean, but him that is author of sects, and maketh division in the Church, which doth obstinately break and trouble the unity of the Church, with false and erroneous opinion. But I will bring more places to confirm my conclusion.  Simon. 
I will gladly hear them.  joia. 
In the xx. of the Acts Paul speaking unto the overseers, being assembled together, at Mileting, did bid them to take heed to themself, & to the whole flock, over the which, the holy ghost hath made them over seers, to govern the Church of God, which he had purchased with his own blood. For sayeth he, I do know this well, that grievous wolves, shall after my departing, enter in, not sparing the flock: even from you shall rise men, speaking perverse things, to draw after them disciples. Thou seest, my Simon, the nature of heretics, which is, to make division in the Church, to get unto them disciples, or followers of their heresy, not to spare the flock, to sow discord, to teach perverse things, to allure men, to raise or stir up parts, sects, & factions, to congregate a particular Church.  Sy. 
These arguments do almost touch the Anabaptistes. For they make division in the Church, and do bring up and maintain a singularity among them or by themselves. But hast thou more testimonies or places?  joiada 
Paul doth warn the Romans with these words, saying: I pray you, brethren, that ye look upon them, that cause among you dissension and strife, against the doctrine that ye have learned, & that ye do fly from them. For they that are such, do not serve unto our lord jesus Christ, but to their belie, and by blandiloquence, & flattering, deceive the hearts of the simple.  Sy. 
This authority the Anabaptistes do use, but against you.  Io. 
Consider, my Simon, in your mind, how truly they do bring such things against us. Where did we ever make division in the Church? which thing is familiar and proper unto them? Where did we ever put offendicles, or stumbling blocks, unto the church? Where as, they have made an innumerable sort of men so perplexed and doubtful, that they do abhor from the gospel & do believe neither us, nor them. Paul did more lively express them, that do deceive & seduce the people with fair speaking, serving to their belies, in the iii▪ chapter to the Philipenses, with these words: For many do walk, of whom I have spoken many times, and now do speak weeping, enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is perdition, whose belie is their God, and glory or rejoicing, in their opprobriousnesse: Which do care for earthly things only. Now judge, my Simon, unto whom these things may be applied, unto us, or unto the Anabaptists. They vociferate and cry always, against Tithes, Tributes, Riches, Oaths, Magistrates, property of goods. We do preach Faith, Innocency of life, Charity, & that men may use all things well, as the gifts of God. Who boasteth more, or rejoiceth in reproachful things, than they do, that is to say, in their Catabaptisme, or opinion against Baptism. in forsaking of their household, & in their slothfulness, wherein they do wander about, as idle vacaboundes. Moreover, of these things, that they do teach, tumults, seditions, wars, robbing and spoiling, did always rise. I think thou dost understand, whom Paul doth call belies, and enemies of the cross of Christ.  Sy. 
If thou hast any more testimonies or places, I pray you, hide not them from me.  joia. 
Touching the unity of the church against the Anabaptistes, there is a singular place, in the▪ x. of the hebrews: Let us (saith he) consider, & look one upon another, for this intent, that we may provoke each other to charity, & good works, not sorsaking the mutual fellowship or congregation of us, as some men are wont to do. And what other thing do the Anabaptistes, but for the weakness, or (as they do say) for the wickedness or ungodliness, of some, forsake the Church▪ and exhort other to do the same.? But let us come now to the four conclusion, which shall show plainly, that the Anabaptistes are false prophets, & enemies of the Cross of Christ.  Sy. 
Bring it forth, that I may hear what it is.  joia. 
They are false prophets, whosoever they be, that do affirm, that Christ did only abolish & take away, original sin. They are false Prophets, that do deny grace, & forgiveness of sins unto them: which, after that the truth is once known, do fall again, into sin or error. They are false Prophets, that do attribute, salvation, unto our works. Sith that the Anabaptistes do teach these articles, they be not only enemies of the cross of Christ, but more over do deny Christ.  Sy. 
They do no such things,  joi. 
Though they do not with their mouth. deny Christ, yet notwithstanding, they do in very deed deny the virtue, and strength of Christ, & of his death: as Peter doth say ii Peter ii for swearing the Lord, that bought them. Is not all one thing, if a man should say Christ is not. And there is no such thing, wherefore Christ did come? Christ did come to take away our sins, which thing if he did not, Christ is not Christ. If he be dead only for them, that were in the old testament, and not for us, he can not be our saviour, and how is he then Christ? If so be that our works, do save us, is he not dead in vain? Dost thou not see, how the enemies of the Cross are known?   

The vii treaty or Diasogue.  
How that Christ did not only suffer, for original sin.  Simon. 
TAke heed, that thou dost not rashly and without advisement, blame the Anabaptistes. For there hath been always some, which did say, that Christ hath suffered only, for them, that were afore him, that is to say, for the Fathers, which did live under the old Testament, & that he hath only purged in us, Original sin, and that we ought to expiate, or to make amends & satisfaction, with our own deeds and works, for the sins, that we commit, after that we be once purified.  Ioi. 
If ye have been so taught hitherto, and have believed so, why was Peter Abelardus counted an heretic, & made to recant again, by saint bernard, in the council of Sens? He did teach very like things.  Sy. 
This doth move me. but little.  joiada. 
In this thing, are ye blame worthy, that ye anabaptists, do know, neither new nor old histories, & yet ye will be teachers. What audacity is this? But how ●ayne your opinion is, and how much, it doth ene●uate and af●eablysh, the virtue of the passion of Christ, we will show, by the holy scriptures. john Baptist, showing with his finger, that pure & immaculate lamb jesus Christ, did say: This is the lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. By these & other words of the scripture. it is manifestly proved, that Christ is the full satisfaction, for the sins of all the world. Or canst thou say, that the fathers of the old Testament are only the world.  Sym. 
No, but he sayeth sin, & not sins.  Ioi. 
john doth use this word sin, as he doth, this diction world. By the world, he understandeth, whatsoever is worldly: so by this word sin, he understandeth, all that can be named sin, the gender being here put, for the species. For he sayeth, which taketh away, and not, which hath taken away, or shall take away, that this word Tollit, taketh away, may signify action or doing & not time. For what sins soever are taken away, they are taken away, by the sacrifice of Christ, done in the Cross.  Sym. 
Thou must bring clear & more strong testimonies, for these, can easily be confuted.  joia. 
This authority is both plain & strong enough. Nor it can not be subverted, by any contradiction. But that thou mayest see, that we are not without authorities. Read the .v. to the Roma. and thou shalt understand, and perceive, that the virtue of the death of Christ, is abolished by you. And not as by one man (saith saint Paul) which had sinned, death did come: so is the gift of GOD. For judgement, did come, by one sin to condemnation, and the gift did come, to justify from many sins. Do not these words, O Simon, prove, that Christ with his death, did not cleanse or purge only one sin, but all manner of sins? But read all the whole chapter, and then, thou shalt understand it better.  
Paul speaketh of Christ in the two. chap. to the colossen. after this manner: And you (saith he) when ye were dead thorough your sins or in the prepucie or uncircumcision of yourflesh, he hath quykened also with him forgiving unto us all our sins. Because that in him doth inhabit all plenitude or perfection of God head corporally and ye are made perfect in him. Which thing, truly, could not be, if he had not washed us clean from all our sins. But the contrary is evidently known, by the ten chap to the hebrews. He (saith saint Paul) one oblation being offered for sins, sitteth everlastingly on the right hand of God the Father. For with one oblation, he hath made perfect for ever, them, that are sanctified i joh. i. The blood of Christ, doth cleanse us, from all our sins i Io. two. If any man doth sin, we have an advocate, before the father, that righteous Lord jesus Christ. And he is the satisfaction for our sins, and not only for our sins, but for the sins of all the world. If Christ did take away, only original sin, the testimony and authority of jesus, is void. And again, if Christ died not for us, but for them only that were after him: what belongeth unto us, the death of Christ. Or why should we confess it, if it pertaineth nothing unto us? Dost thou not see yet, who are false Prophets, enemies of the cross of Christ, and subversers of the Christian faith?  Sy. 
I do see it well enough, and I am well content, touching this Artitle. But as for that, that they do deny, or will not grant repentance, & grace unto them, that be fallen again: they prove it strongly by the vi chap. to the hebrews, and by the two. Peter. two And, verily, as far, as I can, perceive, they speak well enough in it. That is to say, that we be no more in the flesh, and that me ought to sin no more after this: which thing I would think to be good, if we might polyve. For they do so, v●ry studiously & with great diligen●●.   

The viii treaty or Dialogue.  
How that a sinner may come to grace, as often as he reuen●ethe, and that no man is without sin.  joiada. 
O Lord God, that the simple, do so miserably suffer themselves to be blinded. If Menander & Simon, should come again: I think they could find adherentes, and disciples, sith that the sect of Novatus & of the Catharians, is so regarded & believed among many.  Sy. 
What do these things mean▪  joia 
That the said heretics, did teach, about xii C. year's ago, the same things, that thou hast now brought of the anabaptists. For they did deny all grace and forgiveness, unto them, that were fallen again: They did arrogate, and take upon them, pureness or cleanliness of life. They did congregate & assemble a particular Church, avoiding and shunning all communion or fellowship of sinners. In the mean season, they did pass all mortal men, in presumptuo●snesse and arrogancy, in envy, hate ●e ●● contention, in covetousness, & intemperancy of life. But read thou Cyprian, upon the matter, in the four Epistle to Antonianus. The Anabaptistes if thou lookest better upon the 〈…〉, are in all things like unto the Catharians, and do teach all one thing with them. Subjects them therefore▪ For he, that agreeth, with manifest h●●e●●●●s is living, conditions, conversation & teaching, can not teach the truth, nor be a rightful man. Or how canst thou allow them whom all godly persons did always abhor?  Sy. 
I care not for the Catharians, nor I know not, what the Catharians be. That I do, in this thing, agree with the Anabaptistis, the scriptures compel me to do it, therefore I do not believe them, but the scriptures.  joia. 
This is that I have said, and yet do I repeat it, that nothing boldeth them so much in their error as doth ignorance. If they had read, and tasted the old histories, they would be more modest and sober, and not so presump●●ous. Is not this a miserable and perilous thing, that men being so rude and ignoraune in all things, do take upon them, to be teachers? Whereby, it cometh to pass, that they corrupt, confound & subvert all things, not having the right understanding of scriptures. For that which Paul in the▪ vi. chap. to the hebrews, and Peter in the two. chap. of his second Epist. do write, doth not strength nor prove the opinion of the anabaptists, but that there is no remission for them, which do serve from the faith, and thorough misbelieve or infidelity do despair of the mercy of god. For they do sin against the holy ghost, which sin is not forgiven here, nor in the world to come, as Christ teacheth. Mat. xii. & i john .v. But, my Simon, discuss thou and weigh, the words, of both the Apostles, and consider to what purpose they were spoken. Truly for this purpose, to prove, that it is impossible for him, that hath believed once perfectly, to fall away from his faith. Peter, with the other disciples, being asked of christ, whether they would, forsake him also, did answer. Lord, to whom should we go? thou hast the words of everlasting life. And we do know and believe, that thou art the son of the living God. If so be, that any man doth fall clean from faith, he doth show manifestly, that he had never a true faith. They went from us (saith john) but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, truly they should had remained with us. He therefore, that swerveth from the known faith hath no salvation. But why? For Christ is the only salvation from whom he doth falsely serve, and therefore can find no other salvation. Thou dost understand, I think, that the fall, whereof Paul speaketh, is not the fall, that doth chance daily, by th'infirmity & weakness of the flesh in them, that are godly, but extreme desperation through misbelieve & infidelity, whereby a man swerveth from God. Read the vii &. viii to the Heb. and thou shalt see, that daily remission of sins, is not denied unto them that are fallen again. For he sayeth also, in the .v. cha. that Christ is a bishop, that can have compassion, of our infirmities, unto whom we must fly, having licence & liberty, to do it ten chap. to the hebrews.  Sy. 
In the xii chap. Paul teacheth. that Esau could find no place of repentance, though he did seek it with tears.  joia. 
Paul doth not speak in this place, of repentance, and forgiveness of sins. but of election, and recovering of his first birth which he had lost ones, through gluttony, and intemperance, and could never recover it again, though he had assayed & proved it, with weepings and tears. for jacob had bought the right of the first borne. and had prevented him. Wherefore he speaketh nothing hear, of the inward remission of sins. And often times, this word penance is taken in an other signification. But the Catharians did use the same arguments, in so much, that some weak persons, among them, that were godly. did abhor, & suspect the Epistle to the hebrews, as some do now a days the Epi. of saint james. But now I come to the authority of Peter, who speaketh after this manner: It had been better for them▪ not to have known the way of righteousness, then after that they have known, to turn from that, that was taught them by the holy precept. But that chanceth unto them, that is wont to be spoken in a true proverb: A dog going to his vomiting (or to that which he had vomited) again: And a washed sow, being returned to the mire wallowing or weltering. If thou considerest well & truly these words, thou shalt find that they be spoken of infidelity, and unfaithfulness. From the which, after that they were once called, through faith, they did fall again from God, into the first unfaithfulness & infidelity. We do set therefore that infidelity is condemned every where.  Sy. 
What sayest thou of this, that they do affirm that we live no more in the flesh  Io. 
The flesh doth stick unto us, to the very grave. For the flesh doth contrary, the spirit, and again, the spirit doth repugn against the flesh, in so much that we do that, which we would not do, the Rom. the seven. It is therefore great boldness, to presume & boast of that, which the Apostles did never presume ●● boast of. For Paul did complain of his flesh, which hath more spirit, & did labour more, to tame his flesh, than all the anabaptists. And yet they dare say, that they be not in the flesh. For this cause peradventure, because that they be, none other thing but flesh, that is to say, all carnal, drowned in their sensuality & affections. Which thing is manifestly known, by their life. But paul did conclude all this whole matter, more perfectly, & more briefly also, saying: I do, with my mind, obey and serve unto the law of god, but with my flesh, unto the law of sin. He doth more, at large expound these things, in the viii Rom. and v. Galat. Where he doth show, in few words▪ that they, which do not fear God, nor rare, for heavenly things, but are all earthly, do live after the flesh. And that he walketh in the spirit, or after the spirit, which though he hath, & feeleth in himself, sin, and weakness of the flesh, being tickled with sensuality, & affections, yet not withstanding, doth not give the bridle, unto the flesh, ne unto sin, but resisteth still, and is always afraid to fall. And if so be, that he chanceth to fall, by and by, draweth he back his foot, and repentyth.  Sy, 
But they say, that a man may be, without sin  joi. 
We are without sins, as dogs be without fleas, in the month of August. O abomination, that men should think or presume such things. I pass over here, that by this opinion, they do blaspheme the verity, of the gospel, yea, & take utterly away the grace & mercy of God For where sin is not, there is no grace, where prevarication and transgression is not, there is no Remission among them, there is no transgression, ergo, the grace of God, is not a 'mong them. Is not this, to abolish the grace of God? What shall I say, but that these mad brains, do fall into another heresy, that is to say, in to the heresy, of that blasphemous man Pelagius, who did deny the grace of God, magnifying and extolling the strength of man. He was xi C. years ago.  Sy. 
But they prove this, with scriptures.  joia. 
The verity of the scriptures doth teach nothing so. Beside that, thou canst bring no example, but the example of Lucifer, which would be like unto God, as they will be without sin, whereas no man can be pure, and without sin, but God only.  Sy. 
Doth not john say, that he, which is of God, sinneth not?  joia. 
He sinneth not to death.  Sy. 
Thou dost so expound it, or this is thine exposition.  joai. 
Consider the words that go afore, and thou shalt understand, that I say true.  Sy, 
What sin is that? or is not a man without sin, when he sinneth not to death?  Io. 
Christ saith unto the jews: If ye do not believe, ye shall die, in your sins, Ergo, unfaithfulness is a deadly sin or sin to death. And though a faithful believer, is without this sin, that is to say, without infidelity, yet he is not without vice or syekenesse, which he must be ware of always, lest he be drowned in sin. or soiled & defiled with the abominable filthiness of sins: & therefore it followeth in john: We do know, that all that is borne of god, sineth not: but he that is borne of god, doth keep himself, & thevil toucheth him not. So therefore the godly sineth not: & though he falleth by frailness, yet notwithstanding that malicious Satan can not catch him. For the diligent study & labour, that the godly doth take, in shunning & avoiding sin (that is to say faith) doth that sin is not imputed for sin. It is written in the viii Rom. That there is no condemnation unto them that be in christ, which do not walk after the flesh, but after the spirit. Else saint john doth say in the same self epistle: If we do say, we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, & truth is not in us. If we do confess our sins god is both faithful & rightwise to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from our iniquity. If we do say, we have no sin, we make him a liar, & his word, is not in us. There be many such places every where in the scriptures. David doth cry out: O Lord, do not enter into judgement, with thy servant, for in thy sight, no man shallbe justified. And again, if thou lookest extremely upon our sins, o lord who is able to abide it? In the xliii. of Esa. the lord doth speak thus, by the Prophet, unto the jews, which did glorify & boast themselves in the rightwiseness of the law. I am he, I am he (saith the lord) that taketh away thine iniquities, for mine own sake, & will not remember thy sins. Bring me into remembrance, let us be judged together, tell forth if thou hast any thing, to justify thyself. Thy father hath sinned first, and thine interpreters have gone out of the way. None of the most holy men were ever without sin, which thing manifestly appeareth, in Adam, No, Abraham, Isaac, jacob, Moses, Aaron ` David josias, Ezechias, Peter, Paul, Matew. etc. Therefore job speaketh truly. job ix What am I, that I should answer him, and speak with him, with my words, which though I had some rightwiseness, will not answer, but entreat my judge. If I will justify myself, my mouth shall condemn me: if I say that I am innocent, my mouth shall prove me wicked. etc. Paul in the iii Rom. sayeth, that all men have sinned, & do want the glory of god. In the xiii of John, christ sayeth, he that is washed hath no need, but to wash his feet: for he is all clean. If he be all clean, what need hath he, to wash his feet? If he hath need to wash his feet, how can he be all clean? Therefore we are cleansed & purified, with the blood of Christ, that was shed upon the cross, from the filthiness of sin, & be all clean, But it followeth not by this, that we be no more i the flesh, or that we be no more sinners. For the dregs of sin do remain in our feet, that is to say, in our affections, as long as we live, & walk in this dust i and foul way, we are soiled & contaminated, with the filthiness of sin, which we need, with perpetual study and daily care, to wash away, and afterwards, to wipe out, these filthinesses, with great inward grief repentance, and tears, in the virtue of the passion and death of Chryst. Finally christ, in the xu of john saith: I am the true vine, and my father is the husband man. He doth take away every bough in me that bringeth forth no fruit, & every bowgh that bringeth for the fruit, he doth purge & make clean, that he may bring forth more fruit. By the which sayings we may understand, the we that are in Christ, thorough faith, as a bowgh, is in the vine, & do bring forth fruit, living godly, have nevertheless need to be made clean, and that, by the spirit, and virtue of Christ. Now, the, which is made clean, must needs to be unpure, & unclean? So we, that are in Christ already are made clean daily, for we do offend in many things, and no man is living, that sinneth not, and that hath no need of this cleansing. Except the anabaptists, which in their hath, be made so pure & clean, by their water, wherewith they do wash their disciples, among whom, water doth take away that, which the blood of Christ doth not take away in them, that are godly.  Sy. 
I do not see yet proved, that he, which falleth again, after that he hath known the truth, doth daily find grace & pardon.  Io. 
It is sufficientli proved by the saiyng of john, and by the example of david, and of Peter. For if we be all sinners, and yet nevertheless do entre, into the kingdom of heaven, where no unclean thing entereth, it followeth that our sins are forgiven us.  Sy. 
I do not denay, but that we were ones all sinners, & that those sins were once forgiven us, by christ. But I will say this, that after that the sins, which we committed before, thorough ignorancy, be once, thorough the grace of God forgiven us, and so be received by the free gift and goodness of Christ, in to the numbered of the children of god, that then we be pure holy, and clean, and that we ought to sin no more, and that, if we sin wittingly, after that we have once known & received the grace, such sin is not forgiven.  Io. 
But thou mightest, sufficiently understand by the places afore alleged▪ that we be yet sinners still, after that we have known the truth, and that those sins, which we do daily commit as long, as we are in Christ ●e daily forgiven unto us. For christ saith, that his disciples, are all clean, but nevertheless that they have need to wash their feet. And again, the father doth make clean the boughs, that do bring forth fruit in Christ. If they do bring forth fruit, they do bring forth fruit, in faith, and in the known truth (for without faith, it is impossible, that any man should please God, & what so ever is without faith, is sin and not fruit) If they be made clean, they have some filthiness in the known truth. Else they should be clean, and should need no cleansing or purging. But sith that they be made clean, the filthinesses that they do gather in bringing forth fruit, are forgiven and washed away. Neither Pelagius, nor Novatus, nor none of the anabaptists, is able to withstand this verity.  Sy. 
I am not far from this opinion, yet notwithstanding, had I liefer to hear plain scriptures, that a man, may come to grace, as often, as he sinneth.  Io. 
And that can I show unto thee, beside, the fore-alleged places. The lord speaketh thus by ezechiel: When the ungodly shall turn from the ungodliness, that he hath done, & doth judgement & rightwiseness, he shall get life unto his soul. Is the death of the ungodly, a pleasure unto me, saith the lord, and not rather, that he turn from his ways and live? Turn and repent from all your iniquities, and your iniquity shall not hurt you. In the ii of joel. Turn to the lord your god (saith he) for he is gentle, and pitiful, he is patient, & of great mercifulness, & repenteth upon the plague, that he had threatened.  Sy 
That, which thou hast alleged, is to be understanded of the ungodly, & of the remission of sins that is granted unto them, that never knew god, & never believed in him.  Io. 
I would that thou shouldest look better upon the words of ezechiel, thou shouldest see, that he speaketh these words to the children of Israel, which were the chosen people of god. Moreover consider, with what end, he doth conclude this chapter. Why should ye die (saith he) o ye house of Israel, I will not the death of a sinner but y● hereturn & live. Or canst thou return to him, with whom thou wast never before?  Sy. 
No, but I do come to him, and do not return, but with whom I was afore, and from whom I was gone, to him do I return again.  Ioi. 
Ergo it followeth, that they, which are exhorted, by the prophet, to return to god, were sometimes with god. If they were sometimes with god: ergo this is not the first sin, that they did commit, afore that they knew the truth but it was the sin, that they committed, after that they knew the truth and had faith. We have proved, I think, that the sins that we commit after the knowledge of the truth, are forgiven, by God. In the xxiiii of the proverbs, it is written that a rightwise man falleth seven. times in the day, & riseth a gain, but that the ungodly do fall, to their utter damnation. Here thou hast a manifest and a plain difference, betwixt the godly & the ungodly, or betwixt the faithful & infidel. The ungodly, after that he is come, in to the bothomlesse pit, of ungodliness, doth contemn, & remaineth in sin to the last end with despair. A godly man, is not he that sinneth not, but he, which falling vii times in the day, doth not continue in sin, but riseth again. With this place, are the Palagians, novatians, and Anababtistes confounded & convicted. Add unto these the xviii of Mat. & the xvii of Luke, where Christ doth plainly say: If thy brother doth trespass against thee, rebuke him betwixt the and him alone, if he be sorry for his offence or repenteth, forgive thou him. And if he vii times in the day doth offend thee, & vii times in the day cometh to the saying: I am sorry for mine offence, thou shalt forgive him.  Sy. 
But he doth not say, that he will forgive us our sins.  joia. 
Canst thou pray, or say thy Pater noster?  Sy. 
yes.  joia. 
Dost thou not thou pray this: forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us? Unto these words doth the Lord add, by and by, in the vi chapter of Matthew. If ye do forgive unto men their faults, your father, that is in heaven, shall forgive you also. Seeing therefore, that we do forgive, unto our brethren daily, it followeth, that the father of heaven forgiveth us also daily. Do not the saints or holy men pray so, and that every day? Now, I ask thee, whether they do lie before God: praying thus or not?  S. 
They do not lie.  Io. 
If they do not lie, it followeth, that they have in themself trespass and sins. If so be, that sin, as thou thinkest, is not forgiven, why did Christ teach us to prai so? forgive us our trespass. Is not this an abominable thing, that any man, which knoweth not, what he doth pray, should take upon him, not only to be a teacher, but also to teach that which repugueth against the manifest truth and prayers of the Saints? But what thinkest thou of Peter, was he, a faithful Christian man, & elected of God, or not?  Sy. 
He was not a faithful Christian man, afore his fall, else he would not have denied Christ.  Ioi. 
If he had been an infidel, to what intent were these words spoken. mat. xvi. Thou artchrist the son of the living god? Are these the words of an infidel. And again, if Peter had been, an infidel or hypocrite, when he did make such a godly confession, Christ would not have said: Thou art blessed Simon: Flesh and blood hath not revelated this thing, unto thee, but my father, which is in heaven. The LORD praiseth not, hypocrites and infidels, but abhorreth & hateth them, Mat. vi and xxiii He would not, have said unto him: he that is washed, hath no neal, but to wash his feet. And again, Peter, I have prayed for thee, that thy faith do not fail or slake. Reed beside that, the xvii of johan. Now I ask the again, whether Peter was a faithful Christian mam, or not?  Sy. 
The scripture doth compel me to confess, that he was a faithful christian man.  Io. 
Now I ask again, whether his fall, was a sin or not?  Sy. 
Again, the scripture compelleth me, to confess that it was a sin, for he did weep bitterly And again, if to deny christ, is no sin, what shallbe a sin than?  Io. 
Ergo, it followeth, by all these arguments, that Peter did sin, after the knowledge of the truth, and receiving of the faith. Therefore, a faithful man is not all without sin. And here Peter did commit not a small, but a very grievous sin, denying thus, the Saviour of the world. Now I ask whether his sin was forgiven him or not?  Sy. 
yes truly: for Christ sayeth: When thou art turned again, comfort or confirm thy brethren.  joia. 
So should the anabaptists do, if they were sent by God. But seeing that presumptuousness & partinacie hath sent them, and do so bitterly, & with such stubborness, speak against the gospel, teaching for comfort, desperation: they are such Prophets, as the Lord doth complain upon, in Ezechiel, which regard nor care nothing for the diseased & wounded sheep, (which thing nevertheless, they had learned of the Lord, which is deservingly called the good & true shepherd. Luc. xxv. or of Paul. two. Corin. two.) but dissipate & scatter the Lordis flock. For what maketh them, beside a singularity, or singular love of themselves, to separate themselves, from our church, but that (as they do say) we be sinners, that is to say, usurers, publicans & drunkards? I can not, but that I must confess, that there be many enorm sins used among us (which is the more pity) yet we ought not to despair of many, but that they may be brought to repentance. And truly, as for our elves, we are not very negligent or slothful in rebuking sins, crying out still bitterly against them, that commit such things. And yet against the precept of GOD, Math. xiii. and example of the Apostles, which did condemn no man rashly, they do separate themselves from us. But this is the nature of Phariseis.  Sy. 
As touching this article, I am sufficiently taught, & I thank God of it,  jaia. 
john, without exception, doth say: Children, I have written this unto you, that ye should not sin, but if any man doth sin, we have our advocate, before the father, that rightwise LORD jesus Christ. etc. Here no man can bring any cavillation. Christ is here named and appointed to be Advocate or mediator for all sinners, and that, at all times, as he offereth himself. ri. Matthew, saying: Come unto me all ye that labour and are gladded, and I will refresh you. That same thing doth Paul teach, concerning the only Saviour jesus Christ i Tim. i. It is a faithful saying, and worthy to be received of all men, that Christ did come, into this world to save sinners. If the anabaptists therefore, do teach the contrary, they are the open enemies of the Cross of Christ: in the which opinion, if they do abide, or persist obstinately, they are manifest heretics, whom all godly persons ought to fly and abhor.   

The ix treaty or dialogue.  
How that our salvation and rightwiseness, is not to be described to our works but to faith.  Simon. 
IF the anabaptists do teach, that our salvation, & rightwiseness, aught to be ascribed to our works (which is the iii part of this article) thou wilt not say (I think) that they do err in it.  joiada. 
There is nothing that I will grant them, less. For this thing being once granted, all the epistles of Paul are condemned, as false, & which did seduce the people. For this is the thing only, wherefore Paul, with such a zeal did repugn & resist against false prophets, which did teach, that rightwiseness did come of works: where as saint Paul did attribute our rightwiseness to faith. That may easily be seen by the epi. to the Ro. and to the Gala. But I will bring out of them, certain places, which can not be confuted. In the iii cha. to the Romans, Paul saith thus: All have sinned and are destitute of the glory of god, but are justified freely by his grace, thorough the redemption that is in Christ jesus. And in the four Ro. If Abraham were justified by works, them hath he wherein to rejoice, but not with god, for what saith the scripture Abraham believed god, & it was counted unto him, for rightwiseness. To him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of favour but of duty. To him that worketh not, but believeth in him, that justifieth, the ungodly, is his faith counted for rightwiseness. Even as David describeth the blessedfulness of that man, unto whom god imputeth righwisnesse without deeds. Blessed are they (saith he) whose iniquities are forgiven, & whose sins are covered. etc. And in the xi. to the. Ro. There is a remnant left according to the election of grace, if it be of grace than it is not now, of works. For than grace is no more grace But if it be of works, then is it no more grace. For than were deserving, no more deserving. In the second to the Galathians: The life, which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith, of the son of God, which loved me, and gave him self for me, I despise not the grace of God. For if rightwiseness cometh of the law, than christ, is dead in vain. In the third chapter, he doth argument and reason after this manner: That no man is justified in the sight of God, by the law, it is evident. For the just shall live by faith. The law is not of faith, but the man, that fulfilleth the things, contained in the law, shall live in them. Chryst hath delivered us from the curse of the law, in as much, as he was made accursed for us, that the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles through Thesu christ, and that we might receive the promise of the spirit, thorough faith. brethren, I speak after the manner of men. Though it be, but a man's testament, yet if it be allowed, no man despiseth it, or addeth any thing there unto. To Abraham, and his seed, was the promise made. He saith not, in thy sedes, as in many, but in thy seed as of one, which is Christ, this I say, that the law, which began. CCCC and xxx years after, doth not disannul the testament, which was confirmed afore of God, unto Christ ward, to make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance cometh of the law, than it cometh not of the promise. But god gave it, unto Abraham by promise. For if there had been a law given, which could had given life, them no doubt rightwiseness, should have comed by the law. But the scripture, concluded all things under sin, that the promise, by the faith of jesus Christ, might be given unto them that believe. In the two. cha. to the Ephe. ye are saved thorough faith, & not of our own selves. It is the gift of god, and cometh not of our deeds or works. For we are his own workmanshyp, created in jesus Christ to do good deeds, which he hath prepared for us to walk in, & in the iii to Ti, we were also foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving to lusts and voluptuousness, living in malice, and envy, hateful or odious and hating each other. But after that the goodness and love of our saviour God, not according to the deeds of rightwiseness, which we have done, but according to his mercy, had made us safe, by the fountain of regeneration, and renewing of the holy ghost, which he hath poured upon us abundantely, thorough our saviour jesus christ that we being justified by his grace, should be made heirs of everlasting life, according to our hope. These places are plain, and can not be avoided. For they, that speak against them, are no christian men, but fellows of the false Apostles, against whom Paul writeth, calling them evil workmen, and subversours of the gospel of Christ. And by these words, not only the anabaptists, but also, all popish doctors, are noted, and whosoever beside, do attribute our rightwiseness and salvation to our deeds & works.  Sy. 
I can say nothing against the manifest verity. But I would feign know of thee, in what reputation thou haste the epistle of james, and how much thou dost esteem it.  Io. 
And I ask the first, what thou thinkest, or what opinion and judgement thou haste, of the afore alleged places, and how strong thou countest them to be.  Sy. 
They are manifest, and true and also strong enough, and do attribute salvation, and justifying: to faith, but jamis doth ascribe salvation to our works and deeds.  joiada. 
What seemeth unto the then? is it right, that many places, should give the over hand to one, or one place to many.  Simon. 
The interpretation of one place, must be taken out of many. But what doth this to the epistle of james?  joiada. 
Had the apostles all one learning and spirit?  Simon. 
All one. But I asked thee, touching the words of james.  joiada. 
I have had always in singular reputation, the epistle of james, and have always given great credit & a faith unto it, though it hath been suspected by Eusebius, and other beside, & counted less apostolical. But if it be Apostolical, it followeth, that it hath the same meaning and spirit, that the epistles of Paul have. For this thou hast granted before, that they had all one learning and spirit, moreover that the places, which I have alleged out of Paul, and do ascribe salvation to faith, and not to works, are both true and strong. Now it followeth necessarily that it is not the meaning of james, that works should justify and save, and that therefore this dark place and saying of james ought to be expounded, by many plain and manifest testymonyes of Paul.  Simon. 
What is that?  joiada. 
That is to say, that james doth not go about, to prove, that works justify, and that faith justifieth not, but that faith without works, is no faith, but an opinion and credulity, or light believe, which faith can not save. And that it is sufficient to salvation to trust & lie upon this vain opinion. It is manifest therefore, that james doth not take here faith, for that true and lively faith (which faith is a gift of God, and renewing of the mind, and life) but for a false opinion, which foolish men do call faith, with the which faith, the devil believeth, all quaking and trembling, but by it, he is made never the better, nor saved. Beside that, he understandeth not humane or bare works without faith, but faith working effectually through charity and love. Ponder the words of saint james, and thou shalt perceive, that he proveth there, partly, that faith can not be without works, partly that faith working through charity, doth both justify and save. Therefore james doth not disagree from Paul, but meaneth all one thing with him agreeing, both in one spirit and learning.  Sy. 
Yet it seemeth unto me, that our salvation is adsribed to works, when it is attributed to faith. For if faith can not be without works, nor works without faith, they must be all one thing, and that, which is attributed to one is attributed to the other.  joia. 
Faith and works are almost so one thing, as the godhead, and manhood, are one person in Christ. And yet it followed not that the godhead is mortal, because that Christ died in very deed upon the cross. Yet notwithstanding, it is all one person. which can not be divided. So we may speak in this business. Faith justifieth. Here faith is taken, for the election, and grace of God, and also for the redemption, which is not ascribed to our own works, though they can not be separated from faith, and which following most certainly of faith, are very sure & undoubted signs & tokens of faith and election of god. For so Paul doth speak: Whom he hath predestinated, them did he chose, whom he hath chosen, them did he call, whom he hath called, them did he justify. And john also: We know, that when he shall appear, we shall be like unto him, and every man that hath this hope, doth make himself clean, as he is pure i Io. iii. In one son, there is both light and heat, and the one is not from the other. Yet notwithstanding the lighting or illumination, is attributed to the light, and not to the heat, and the heating or warmness, is ascribed to the heat, and not to the light.  Simon. 
But the scriptures do often and in many places, ascribe salvation, to our works and merits.  joiada. 
That is done, not because that the work, should be barely taken by itself, but as a work or deed, coming of faith, whereby that, which is farthest, and chiefest (that is to say faith) may be manifested, and showed. I ask thee, can a man, do any good thing of himself.  Simon. 
No. For no man, is good, but god only.  joiada. 
And Christ saith in the xu of john. As boughs can not bring forth fruit, except, they remain still, in the vine. So ye can bring forth no fruit except ye remain in me. For without me ye can do nothing. Now I ask again, who bringeth forth the grapes and the wine?  Simon. 
The vine.  joia. 
If god, should take away his strength from the vine, and should not work in it, that, which we do see, could that vine bring for the wine?  Sy. 
No.  joiada. 
The chief thing therefore that giveth wine, is not the vine, but God, and yet notwithstanding, we do ascribe the wine to the vine, whereas it doth only come of God.  Simon. 
I can say nothing against the truth.  joiada. 
It is all one reason, when the salvation and everlasting life, is attributed to our own works, where as it cometh of God only, and of gratuitee and free election. For GOD worketh 〈…〉 s, both to be willing, and to do or perform the thing, that he hath moved us, to be willing to do, according to his bounteous will. He, I say, worketh in us good works, as in his elects, notwithstanding the works are attributed unto us, and are called ours, which nevertheless are Gods, that glory & honour may be given to god only. Dost thou understand what I say?  Sy. 
I do understand it very well.  joia. 
Doth it satisfy thee?  Sy. 
ye as truly, Now do I perceive, that the learning of the anabaptists, cometh of ignorance and boldness, and that it is very pernicious and hurtful, which is gay in the sight of the simple, but in deed is an error, & malicious rudeness 〈…〉 ut I desire to know, what thou wilt say of the .v. conclusion: For they be fully persuaded, that souls are a sleep.   

The ten treaty or dialogue.  
How that the Souls after that they be departed from the body do not sleep, but live in christ.  joiada. 
But, with this opinion, they do abolish the gospel, which teacheth of the resurrection of Christ: as saint Paul, in the first chap. to the romans, doth say: Beside that, they do deny, the last Article of our faith, that is to say: The life everlasting, after this life. Is not this therefore a pernicious Doctrine, that repugneth against so manifest verity, and sure believe?  Sy. 
Thou dost not understand the Anabaptistes, For they do neither deny the Gospel, nor the Resurrection of Christ. They say that the Souls, after the death of the body, (if they do depart in faith) do sleep in the bosom of Abraham, till the day of judgement, & that then, they do enter into everlasting life. And prove their sayings by the gospel, & by Paul. Luc. xvi. i. Thess. iiii. I will not have you to be ignorant touching them, that are a sleep. etc. In the Old Testament, it is written of the Fathers, that they fall a sleep, with their Fathers. And also, it is said of Stephen, that he did sleep in the Lord. And that they at length, shall receive everlasting life, they do prove it by Paul ii Timoth. iiii. I have sayeth he, fought a good fight. Now is there laid up for me, a crown of rightwiseness, which the Lord, who is a rightful judge. shall give or render unto me, upon that day, not only to me, but also to all them that love his coming. There is such a thing. Phil. iii. & i john. iii. Or what need is it, of that last judgement, if by & by, after his death, every man receiveth his own doom: these do seem unto me strong. Now will I fain he are what thou canst say against it.  Io. 
I say the same thing that I said before. If our souls do sleep, after the death of the body, the soul of Christ sleepeth also, and the resurrection is disannulled. For Christ did prove that there was an everlasting life by his rising again, which can not be everlasting, if the soul sleepeth, and beginneth then to live, when judgement doth come. Wherefore the sleep of the anabaptists, doth evacuate and disannul, the gospel and resurrection. As for the bosom of Abraham, I ask the whether it be, a sleeping place & dormitori, or a receptacle, and place to receive the living?  Sy, 
A place whereunto, the souls of the faithful Christian men, are gathered together, till the day of judgement.  Ioi. 
Where is that place, above, or beneath?  Sy, 
It is uncertain to me, God doth know. Nor it is not lawful for us, to inquire  Sy. 
So ye do defend all uncertain things, that ye do teach. And ye that do speak & babble much of the bosom of Abraham, and do not know yet  
That coming of Christ shall be in the last day of all.  joia. 
What and I understand that, of the coming of Christ, at the end of every man's life?  Sy. 
So thou dost say: but it must be proved by the holy scriptures.  Io. 
These are not my words, but the words of him, that speaketh there, of his own death. For he useth this word, to go, for to die. (so that to go, and to die, is all one thing, with him) And again, this word, to come, wherefore the anabaptists do strive, is not taken, for his last coming, but for the resurrection of christ: and ye help and aid, that he showeth upon the faithful christian men being in extreme need. For he came again, after that he was risen from death, & did declare, that he had opened the kingdom of god: that we might be sure, that as he did enter in to heaven himself, so we should come in or enter in also. But he is entered, in to immortal life, & not in to sleep, in to the kingdom of God, and not in to the bosom of Abraham, and that by & by after his death. Therefore we shall also, incontinent after our death, enter in to everlasting life, and into the kingdom of God. For he taketh us away, when he calleth us from death to life. john. v. For it is added by manner of exposition: That where I am, there ye may be also. Therefore are we taken in soul, from death to everlasting life, & in body, to judgement. Or tell me, did Christ with his death, reserate & open heaven, which was locked up afore or not?  Sy, 
I do grant that he did open it.  Ioi. 
But what needeth this reseration or opening, if the souls do not enter in to life? Where as notwithstanding Paul doth say: I covet to be dissolved, & delivered from this body, & to be with christ. believing that after this death, he should be with Christ. Peter moreover doth say, that for this cause, the gospel was preached unto the dead, that they should be judged in the flesh, but live, after, or in the spirit, do not these manifest places teach & prove, that the souls do live, with God? For he sayeth that the gospel was preached unto the dead: What is else the gospel, to be preached, but redemption & life to be preached. And what were they that were dead, but they, which after that they were departed, were gathered in the bosom of Abraham?  Sy. 
But how was the gospel preached unto them?  joia. 
The virtue of the passion of Christ, and the fruit of his death, which were profitable unto them.  Sy. 
How?  Ioi. 
Because that they being delivered, through the death of Christ, are received, as touching their souls, into everlasting life. In the last day, they shall rise bodily, and as all other, shall be judged, in the universal judgement. In the mean season their souls do live with God. Is it proved sufficiently that the souls that were in the bosom of Abraham are delivered, & brought in to heaven?  Sy. 
I do not say against it.  joia. 
And thou shalt find none other thing in the word of god▪ It followeth therefore, that th● Bosom of Abraham is no dormitory, or sleeping place, but an everlasting life: Which thing we may prove by the xvi of Lu.▪ For there it is written, that Lazarus is in joy and solace, whe● as the rycheman is punished in hell. If so be that the soul (as ye do say) should sleep, she could have no joy, except i● were by dreams: if she rejoiceth or have joy, it is impossible that she should sleep. Likewise it is manifestly known & showed in the viii of Matthew, that many shall come, & sit in the kingdom of God, with Abraham, Isaak, and jacob. That in the mean season, I should say nothing, that sleep is clean contrary to the nature of the soul, which is in Greek called ●ntesecheia, or Endesechia, that is to sai ● perpetual and unrequietable ●otion or working.  Sy. 
These things are more manifest, and more strong, than I thought.  joia. 
It is the point of an unwise man to say, I thought not, and having heard, but one ●arte, to give sentence. The A●ababtistes do advance, and ●et forth gaily, and paintyngly their arguments, but they are weak and nothing strong.  Sy. 
I would fain know, in what signification, the scripture useth this word to sleep, which is so often times found, in every place of the Bible.  joia. 
Among the ancient fathers, this word, to sleep, was to die naturally, or after the comen course of nature. And because of the resurrection, it was said, that they which did die, sleep. For as a man giveth himself to sleep, doubting nothing, but that he shall wake again from his sleep: so the body sleepeth that is to say dieth, & doth ly● in the grave, being kept there ●yl the day of the general resurrection. So the Father's dy● sleep: so Stephen, & all other godly persons. Seeing therefore that to sleep, is to die, and th● souls can not die, it followeth that they can not sleep. Fo● Stephen did say: Lord, receive thou my spirit, which thing: when he had said, & ha● committed or commended his soul to the heavenly father, his bod● sleeping, did die. In thy thing, they are deceived, tha● they do attribute unto the sou● that which belongeth to the body only. But in the mean season it is attributed to the whole man because of the unity of the body and of the soul, being knitted in one person. Which example was brought afore, of Christ, in whom the body died only, & not his godhead, nor his soul. Likewise a man sleepeth, but with his body, & not with his soul. The anabaptists do not, nor will not understand this figure Synecdoche, nor the other figures, & tropes. Which thing causeth them to err in many things. But ignorancy maketh them the bolder, to teach, what so ever they do dream or conceive in their sleep.  Sy. 
Yet it is evident that Paul saith, that a cotoune of rightwiseness shallbe rendered unto him at length, when th● Lord cometh. And also that which is written in john, an● in the Epistle to the Philipen● is sure and strongly grounded▪  joia. 
This aught to be obserue● Simon, that the day of th● Lord in scriptures, is not always to be taken for the las● day, but sometime, for the truth and light: as in the gospel o● john, otherwiles for the vi● sitation of the Lord: as ofte● times, in the Prophets, and. ● Cor. iii. sometime for the end● & death of every man: as Ioh● vi. I will resussitate or raise him again, to everlasting life in the last day, that is to saye● when he dieth. For when an● man dieth, that day is last vnt● him. After this manner, dy● Paul call, the last day, in th● Epistle to Timothe. For he had spoken before of his death, saying: I am ready to be offered: affirming, that he had been faith full and loyal, in his course, & therefore, he did not doubt, but that the rightwise judge, should render unto him, the coroune of rightwiseness, which, as he leaveth no unrightwiseness unpunished, so always rewardeth them that lobor faithfully. And this place doth rather for us, then for the anabaptists, seeing that Paul doth hope, that the coroune of rightwiseness, duyd unto the rightwise, shallbe rendered unto him, at the time of his death. Ergo, he believeth not, that the souls do sleep, but that they do live everlastingly. That, which thou aledgest out of john and Paul to the Philipenses, are spoken, of the last judgement, but they prove not that the souls are a sleep. For that, which they do speak of salvation there, do pertain more to the resurrection of the body. For these are the words of Paul: He shall transform (that is to say Christ) our vile body, that he may make it conform and like, to his glorious body. What mean these things else, but that our bodies have full hope of resurrection. or rising again? As job did speak job ix  Sy. 
If the souls do receive by and by, their judgement as soon, as they be departed, what needeth that universal judgement?  joia. 
It pertaineth to the whole man, which shall be repaired or made new again, with the body, that shall rise, & with the soul. Of the which thing, it is written, Chess four & Mat. xxiiii. & xxv Dost thou yet desire any thing?  Sy. 
I had leaver hear foundations and grounds out of the scriptures.  joia. 
I have brought very many already, what doest thou ask more?  Sy. 
Thou hast other helps yet, the which I pray thee, to bring forth.  joia. 
saying that thou art desirous of the truth, I will hide nothing from the. This Doctrine and Opinion, of the Sleep of the Souls, doth not ovelye repugn against the Scriptures & faith, doth not only disannul the Gospel and Resurrection of Christ, but is also against all common sense & reason, a rude and unclearkelye ignorance, but go to, let us expound these things: I ask thee, if the soul be a body, or a spirit?  Sy. 
It is not a body, nor any gross substance, but a single and pure spirit.  joia. 
Can then a spirit be subject to bodily infirmities, as to be an hongered, to be wearied, to die. etc.  Sy. 
No, for these pertain to the body only. A spirit, is immortal, incorruptible, everlasting or perpetual.  joiada. 
Thou sayest very well, therefore mark thine argument thus: Sith the soul is a spirit, & not a body, it can not be subject to bodily passions or infirmities, but is exempt from them: sleep doth chance to the body, through weariness. Ergo the soul can not sleep: for the soul cannot be weary. Or canst thou bring any other thing concerning sleep?  Sy. 
No, for all operations and senses do cease and rest, and except the body should breath, folks would think that it were dead.  joia. 
Now, if our souls should sleep, it should follow, that after this life, we do feel neither good, nor evil, which doth directly pugne against the Gospel. Moreover, we will prove by the nature of the sleep, that the souls can not sleep, but the body only. For now I ask thee, when doth the soul sleep, after that she is departed from the body, or when she is yet joined to the body?  Sy. 
At both times.  Ioi. 
Neither of them can be true: and I do marvel that so gross an answer did come from the. For seeing that the Soul, can much less sleep, when she hath put away the burden of th● body, then when she beareth about yet, the burden of the body, & doth not sleep, when sh● is yet in the body, it followeth that she sleepeth much less, when she is delivered from th● body And that she doth not sleep being in the body, it may be known by this, that in the time of waking, the body doth always, without rest & quiet, work, which actions do come from the soul. Ergo, it is manifest, that whiles that the body waketh, the soul sleepeth not. And again, when the body hath given itself to rest & to sleep, the soul worketh with a perpetual motion or moving, & doth never rest or cease, either she breatheth, or doth some thing always, with the virtue of remembrance & understanding, or with the other excellent virtues & powers. All man's life is either waking, or rest: in none of them both, doth the soulesleape. Ergo the soul doth not sleep at all. Therefore sleep, longeth only to the body, & not to the soul. For when the soul beginneth once to have life it is a perpetual Entesechia, coming from the everlasting & eternal fountain of goodness, the which perpetual Entesechiia, that is to say, unrequietable, & perpetual action and moving in the soul, if any man denayeth, by that same reason he must denay the soul  Sy. 
These things are somewhat dark unto me.  joiada. 
Therefore, I will declare them, by an example: Fire is a very pure & actual thing, which after that it beginneth once, can never cease from his operation and working, till it be quenched: and that is, when it hath nothing, whereupon, it may show, and exercise his operation. If thou deniest the operation & working of the fire, thou hast denied the fire. The nature of the soul is very like, which after, that she is poured in to the body, by god, is a lively and working spirit, and can never cease nor be at rest. Wilt thou have no fire, take away the operation. If thou deniest the Soul, attribute unto her, sleep. For to say, that the soul is a sleep, and to say, that the soul is not, is all one thing.  
If the soul sleepeth, she doth rest, if she doth rest, she worketh not, if she doth not work, she is not. For to work, and to be in the soul, is all one thing, ●yth that she is a perpetual motion, & working. But the soul is, therefore she sleepeth not. doest thou understand this thing?  Sy. 
Very well.  joia. 
Therefore did I say, that the A●ababtistes know not, the nature of the soul.  Sy. 
Thou shouldest peradventure have persuaded somewhat, to Timens, and Phedrus, Plato's disciples, I had leaver hear Scriptures.  joia. 
The Saducees, did teach that there was no Resurrection, and by this, did deny the immortality, and perpetual working of the soul, yea, and also Angels, and all manner of Spirits. Act. xiii. The Lord did stop their mouths, with these reasons. Ye err (saith he) not knowing the scriptures, nor the virtue of God. God, after the death of the Fathers, calleth himself, the God of Abraham, Isaac and jacob, which is not the God, of the dead. but of the living, and that therefore, Abraham, and the other Fathers were a live, and not dead. They were dead in body, a great while afore, and buried: Therefore Christ speaketh here, of the life of the soul. Ergo, the soul being separated from the body, is in her own kind, worketh lively, and sleepeth not. This syllogism and argument, do I put to all the anabaptists, to answer to, that they may clear themself from the heresy of the Saducees. For they are like unto the Saducees and Manicheans. What should I say of the words of Christ, which hanging upon the Cross, doth comfort, the thief with these words, saying: To day thou shalt be with me in Paradise.  Sy. 
Paradise, and the Bosom of Abraham, are all one thing, to the anabaptists, where they say, that the souls do sleep.  joia. 
They do affirm this with out scriptures, and with an heretical spirit. Christ sayeth: To day, thou shalt be with me in Paradise. Ponder every word. If Paradise, is a sleeping place, Christ sleepeth in it also. For he sayeth: To day thou shalt be. Moreover, the thief prayeth Christ, to remember him, when he should come in to his kingdom. If the kingdom of God, is a dormitory or sleeping place: what do the scriptures speak, of the Resurrection, and Ascending of Christ in to heaven? Ye ate obstacle asses, O Anababtistes, which dare make mention of such sleaping, against so manifest places of the scriptures. What shall they say, to the words of Christ. john. v.? He that heareth my word, and believeth in him, that hath sent me, shall not come in to judgement, but is passed from death to life. Which words are so clear, that no man can denay them, but heretics. Let the xi of john. and the xu of the first Epistle to the Corinthians. Item the ii Cor ii be read, and it shall evidently he known, that the sleep of the anabaptists, is a blasphemy against the Gospel and Resurrection of Christ.  Sy. 
If the matter be better looked upon: the anabaptists can not clear themselves, from the crime of over boldness & ignorancy: but they have not pondered all these things so exactly  joia. 
Why do they presume to teach then, & take upon them that, which passeth their strength? And again, when they be convicted, will not give the upper hand to the truth? But because they will be seen steadfast, they be found, in all things, froward, and obstacle. To say briefly: They do all things, with contention, arrogancy, and ignorance.  Sy. 
I would had questioned with thee, touching the vi Conclusion, but that I must go to mine june: Tomorrow, if thou canst have leasyr, I will be here betimes in the morning, and reason farther with the.  joiada. 
I am well pleased, for I will go, to mine Inn also: be thou to morrow, in better readiness.  Simon, 
God be with the.  joiada. 
Far well.   
SOLIDEO HONOR ET GLORIA▪   

¶ Thou shalt understand, good Christian Reader, that immediately after this, as soon as may be, thou shalt have the second Book, which entreat upon as many things as this Book doth, both fruitful to be known, and also most necessary for these perilous times: in the which, the Devil doth all, that he can, to extinguish the true Doctrine of the Gospel: which at this time, through our godly Magistrates, doth revive, and flourish again: Far well, and pray, that we may perform the Work that we have in haude.