TO HIS HONOURABLE FRIEND Sr. HENRY SKIPWITH Knight, and Baronet, The Author hereof sendeth this his work as a Testimony and Memorial of the LOVE and HONOUR which he beareth to his WORTHINESS. A JUSTIFICATION OF THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND. Demonstrating it to be a true Church of GOD, affording all sufficient means to SALVATION. OR, A Countercharme against the Romish enchantments, that labour to bewitch the people, with opinion of necessity to be subject to the Pope of ROME. Wherein is briefly showed the Pith and Marrow of the principal books written by both sides, touching this matter: with Marginal reference to the Chapters and Sections, where the points are handled more at large to the great ease and satisfaction of the READER. By ANTHONY CADE, Bachelor of DIVINITY. GALAT. 3.1. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth? LONDON, Printed for GEORGE LATHUM, dwelling at the Bishop's head in Paul's Churchyard, Anno 1630. TO THE RIGHT REVEREND FATHER IN GOD, JOHN, LORD Bishop of LINCOLN, my very good Lord and Patron. RIght Reverend Father: I humbly crave your Patience, to take notice of the Causes, and Manner of my writing; and your Patronage to countenance it. The occasions of my writing. 1 Particular. I ever accounted it a great blessing of God, and it is still the joy of my heart to record, that in my stronger years I was thought worthy to be employed in the training up of some Nobles, and many other young Gentlemen of the best sort (whose names here to insert might happily be censured ambition in me) in the Learned Tongues, Mathemacicall Arts, Music, and other both Divine and Humane Learning; and that Many of them have since risen to great places and dignities in our Church and Common wealth. And it was afterwards my great grief, to hear, that any of them, or of their Parents (by me much honoured) should be seduced or drawn to embrace the present Religion of the Papacy, and to separate from our so excellently-reformed Church. The falling away of persons of so Noble birth and place, & after such education, likely also to be means by their examples and reputation, to draw others to the like defection, made a deep impression of sorrow in my soul, and wrought a desire to seek their recovery. 1 More general. I saw also a general inclination of many sorts of people to return again to the Old Religion (as they called it) upon a strong persuasion, that the Protestants Religion was new, and but of yesterday: although we daily cry down all novelties in Religion, and profess to embrace nothing which is not of the ancient faith, jude verse 3. once (or first) delivered to the Saints. These considerations excited and urged me, by that bond of love and duty, wherewith I feel myself bound, both to my late dear beloved young Nobles and Gentlemen in particular, and to our whole Church and State in general, The purposes and ends of my writing. to address myself to writing, to recollect and perfect that, which I had long professed, observed and taught: both to put those former in mind of such grounds of sound Religion, which in their youth (both by pulicke Sabboth-dayes Sermons, and by private Schoole-Catechizings on fridays, and by other Conferences) they had learned of me; and to confirm those grounds with Invincible Reasons and Allegations: And also to improve my Talents (such as they are) to the best service of the whole Church, our Gracious Sovereign, the State in general, and every particular soul, for their eternal and temporal happiness; by instructing the Ignorant, confirming the right believers and good Subjects, reducing the errant, staying the weak and wavering, or confounding the obstinate: and thereby (so much as in me lieth) working a happy peace, love, unity, and unanimity amongst all. To which purpose, An objection answered. though many have written most learnedly and excellently already: yet I thought good to follow S. Augustine's advice, Augustin. libro 1 De Trinitate cap. 3. V●ile es● plures à pluribus fieri (libros) diverso stylo, non diversa fide, etiam de quaestionibus ●●sdem, ut ad plurimos re● ipsa perveniat, ad alios sic, ad alios autem sic. who wisheth, where heresies are busy, that all men which have any faculty of writing, should write; though they writ not only of the same things, but the same reasons in other words, either that heretics may see multitudes against them; or that of many books written, some at lest may come to their hands, as it happily fell out in the time of the Arrians. And for the manner of my writing, The manner of my writing. I endeavoured to fit it the best way to the Persons to whom I intended it; and to these times. I saw, that books of all sorts are infinitely multiplied in the world: and that neither men of great place, nor many others, have time afforded from their necessary affairs to read many books, or any large discourse. I thought it therefore (though the most painful, yet) the most profitable course, diligently to collect, and faithfully to relate, with all possible brevity and perspicuity, the substance of that which former learned Authors, Fathers, and Histories have delivered: what the Romish Doctors have probably objected, and Protestants (especially English) have substantially answered, (so much as concerneth my purpose and the points which I handle) that the Reader might have in one view and volume, the Pith and Substance of the best books written on both sides, touching these matters, as an Epitome of them all. And withal pointing to the books, chapters and sections, By marginal notes for the most part. or pages of them all, as an Index, referring the unsatisfied where he may read of every point more at large. I find (to omit all others) the late most learned Lipsius in humane knowledge, justi. Lipsij Politica. See his Prefaces. hath taken this course, without any disgrace to himself, but rather with the great commendation of his diligence and learning: writing to the Emperor, Kings and Princes (which have no leisure to read great books) brief Aphorisms methodically delivered by him, but evermore in the most learned Authors own words, and quoting their books. quae optima sunt, aut per me cognoscatis, aut mecum recognoscatis, saith he to those great Estates, That either by me ye may know these excellent things, or with me call them again to mind. And herein (saith he) Verè dicere possum, omnia esse nostra, & nihil. All things (in the book) are mine, and nothing. Because the matter was the Authors (whom he cities) the whole invention and order was his own. And Bellarmine in divine Controversies, is esteemed to have done the greatest service to the Church of Rome, by collecting the substance of the learned large writers of Controversies into one body, confuting (as he could) what was against, and confirming what was for that Church. I have followed these great wits, though longo interuallo, a great Way behind them, in the manner, not in the matter of their writing. I know it unfit for me (yea, unfit for a Christian, and I hate it in my heart) to bean Author or Inventer of new opinions of Religion. We must learn of S. jude, jude v. 3. only earnestly to contend for the faith which was once (that is first) delivered to the Saints. Therefore the Materials of my building I create not, but fetch them from the Garden of Eden, (the holy Scriptures) and the large Forests and rich Quarries of others: but the choice of all the Timber and Stone, the squaring, joining, form and frame of the work is mine; which I have set together without any impairing of the strength or beauty (I hope) of any piece. Such grave and holy Author's words (as undeniable witnesses) add weight and authority to my discourse, more than from myself it could have, and it will be a great ease to the Readers (as judges) to have the whole plead abridged, and laid in one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (or short view) before them; with the witnesses names annexed to every Article, whom they may more fully examine upon every occasion. This I have aimed at, how near I have come unto the mark, I must leave to others to judge. The first part of this work I now publish, which concerneth the general exceptions against our Reformed Church (which I hope I fully clear and satisfy in this small. Volume.) The second part, which handleth the particular doctrines controverted, I am compelled to put off to another time. Those my labours, I am bold (or rather indeed I am bound) to dedicate unto your Honour. 1 As to my most bountiful Patron, furnishing me with increase of means, both to live in better sort without want (and thereby without contempt) and especially to furnish me with many usefulll books of all kinds and sides: in perusing, examining, and extracting the quintessence whereof, is my daily labour, and my greatest worldly contentment. The honour and fruits whereof, are due debts unto your bounty. 2 As to our Reverend Bishop, and general Father of the Clergy in this your Diocese of Lincoln: appointed according to the order of Christ's Apostles delivered in Scripture, a As appears by the subscriptions of the second Epistle to Timothy, in the Original Greek, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. To Timotheus, ordained the first Bishop of the Church of the Ephesians. And the like to Titus, ordained the first Bishop of the Cretians And by the Text, Tit. 1.5. & cap. 2. & cap. 3.1, 2, 8, 9, 10, etc. To govern part of God's Church; not only for the b Ordination. Tit. 1.5. 1 tim. 4.14. & 5.21, 2●. & 2 tim. 2.2. Ordination of Ministers (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) in every Congregation, but also for c jurisdiction 1 Tim. 1.3. & 4.11. & 5. per tot. & 6.3, 4, 5, 20. & 2 tim. 2.14. tit. 1.10, 11, 13. & 3.10. etc. jurisdiction or power or over-fight, that they teach found doctrine, and live without scandal. 3 As to a most eminent and excellent builder of God's Spiritual house, by your divine wisdom, learning, preaching, and writing. 4 And yet further, To the most Noble and famous builder of God's external and visible houses: by your d The beautiful Chapel at Lincoln College in Oxford: a magnificent Library at S. john's College in Cambridge (the mother and ●●rse-place of of his learning) another at Westminster, (his Dignity) built and furnished by his cost, (as also another at Lincoln, his Bishopric) with store of excellent books. Founding also ●ew Fellows and other Students with yearly maintenance for ever in Cambridge, with many other works of Piety, and abundant charity, Oxford, Westminster, Lincoln, Leicester, and other places. material buildings, enriching, beautifying, and amplifying Churches and Colleges, with Chapels, Libraries, Fellowships and Scholarships in both the Universities, and else where, and furnishing them with the most excellent and necessary books that can be gotten. Which (With other your most pious and Noble works) draw the hearts and tongues of all men which I can hear mention your name) to glorify God for you, and you for glorifying God and our Church and Nation, with such worthy Monuments of your Piety, Cost and Labours. In regard of all these, I could not hold, my hart would break, if I did not in some sort vent the fullness thereof, and honour your Bounty, your Fatherhood, your spiritual Graces, and your material magnifical Beneficence, by the best means I can, with this dedication of my poor labours. And (let me add that which all men will easily conceive) 5 To receive honour from you, by prescribing your much honoured name before my labours And finally, as in these many respects I am bold and bound So 6 I do most willingly and humbly offer my labours to your Fatherhood, to be viewed, judged, approved, or censured by your grave Wisdom, Learning, Piety, and Authority. For the continuance and increase whereof, and of all your temporal and eternal happiness, I shall daily pray: as becometh, Your Lordships much bounden, ANTHONY CADE. To the Reader. Dear Christian Reader whatsoever, or of what Religion soever thou art, if there be any of these three things truly rooted in thy heart, either the care of God's Glory, or the salvation of thy soul, or the love of thy Country, with the peace, strength, happiness, and flourishing estate thereof (as I hope all these three are conjoined in thee) by them, all of them, or any of them, I humbly and hearty entreat thee, to read, not with prejudice, but with an honest and good heart, with indifferency, patience, advisedness, and with continual weighing; considering, and examining, the things which I have with great labour and diligence gathered, and here set before thee. Rom 9.1. etc. I do protest before God (as Saint Paul did for the Hebrews) that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart, for my dear brethren, English people, that are seduced and withdrawn from the sincerity of the Gospel: and my hearts desire and prayer to God is (and my endeavours both by example of life, and holy doctrine, Rom. 10.1. etc. continually tend that way) that they might be saved (eternally, and in this world live comfortably and happily.) For I bear them record (the greatest number of them) that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. And it may be, many of their seducers are themselves first seduced by the cunning of their greatest Rabbins, who yet (the most of them) know full well, (and very often confess in their writings, as I shall manifestly show in handling the chief points controverted betwixt us) that Protestants hold the truth, and themselves have swarned from pure Antiquity. In tender commiseration therefore, and yerning bowels of compassion unto the seduced, I have undertaken this great labour, with neglect of myself, my health, and state, to do good to their souls, and good to my Country, by uniting them (so far as in me lieth) firmly to be the true Church of Christ, and the body of this State. And I have carried myself with that sincerity and singleness of heart, that I may safely protest again with S. Paul, I speak the truth in Christ, I lie not, Rom. 9.1. etc. my conscience bearing me witness in the holy Ghost I renounce the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking (nor writing) in craftiness, 2 Cor. 4.2. &. 2.17. & 1.12. nor handling the word of God (or divine things) decitfully: but by manifestation of the truth, commending myself to every man's conscience in the sight (and fear) of God. I am no Innovator, inventor, or favourer of new things in Religion. I search for the old, and out of all kind of Authors deduct allegations, authorities, consequences and reasons against the new. I cut off extravagant, needless, and endless questions, private opinions both of these and former ages: and comprehend the necessary points of Religion agreed upon by the Scriptures, Fathers, and modern divines within their own true limits: I set down the most substantial points agreed upon betwixt the Romans and us: and show withal their unnecessary additions and corruptions. I search how corruptions came into the Church (as they will do into all societies of Men in continuance of time) I show how they were discovered, opposed, and reformation wished and sought for in all former ages: and by what power, policies, and cunning they prevailed after Satan was loosed. I find and show the out-cries of historians, and other learned men, Emperors, Princes, Clergy, and people, yea of their own writers against them, all before Luther's time. And all this while, I show the continuance of all necessary saving doctrine in many other famous Churches beside the Church of Rome: yea and within that Church also a sufficient visible number of many hundred thousands fare and wide spread in Countries and Nations, and continuing till Luther's time, which refused the government, errors, and corruptions of the Papacy, and taught the same substance of doctrine which Protestants now teach. Yea, the better part of the Church of Rome itself (excepting only the Papacy, and the faction that maintained it) held with great liberty the same most necessary points of Faith which we do, until by the Council of Trent (which was not a free end general Council, but guided wholly by the Papal faction) that liberty was taken away, and the errors of the Papacy were imposed generally upon all, under pain of Anathema, or deprivation of salvation. Upon due search of these and many other things (which here I deliver unto thee) in the Scriptures, Fathers, Histories, and all kind of Authors of either Religion, I have by the grace of God attained to that perfect knowledge and assurance of the Verity Antiquity, and Sufficiency of the Protestants doctrine to good life in this world, and eternal salvation in the world to come, that any mortal man can desire to have: and am as willing (if God have so decreed i● expedient, and the times desire it) to suffer for it, as the holy Martyrs were for this same Religion in the Primitive Church; not writing any thing in substance which I will not willingly seal with my blood. This is it (dear Christian Reader) which I present unto thy view in this work, being a Sum or Abridgement of many great volumes written on both sides, upon these points, and thus briefly delivered for thy greater case in reading and perfecter judging of Truth and Error, Sincerity and Corruption, Antiquity and Novelty. To answer all the Romish books (lately come abroad in great numbers) punctually following their own method, had been an endless labour both to Writers and Readers: and therefore (for my part) I thought better to gather their principal motives and reasons out of the chiefest of their books, and separating them into several Chapters, to give them their full answer in their proper places; so answering many books in one. Among the store of all other Allegations, I have most willingly and commonly referred the Reader to the late Writers of our own Nation; and that especially for these Reasons: First, for the excellency of our Authors, surpassing others, both in multiplicity of reading, profundity of judgement, and sincerity of affection, in delivering the truth. As we find in our learned Bishops, jewel, Abbots, Bilson, Morton, Usher, Downham, Hall, White, Andrew, etc. And our Doctors, Fulke, Raynolds, Whitakers, Field, Favour, White, Prideaux, etc. And other Divines, Master Fox, Perkins, Hooker, and many other: whose worthy labours, I do hearty commend to the diligent reading of our English men. The Romish affected, very well know, that those English which have fled from us, and written on their side, have in show of wit and learning gone beyond, not only all former, but all other of this Age: So that Bellarmine takes most out of them in the points whereof they have written: as , Allen, Stapleton, etc. And therefore let no man contemn their own Countrymen's wits and learning: but acknowledge their worth, and make high account of their learned labours. Secondly, to show that I bring no new thing of myself, but what is fully confirmed by our most approved writers: and that I also thankfully remember and honour them, Per quos profecerim. Thirdly, to show the unity of the Writers of our Church from the beginning of the Reformation to this time, contrary to the Romish slanders, which charge us with continual varying from ourselves. Fourthly, to show to our English men especially, where they may read in our learned English Writers more fully, of the points which I deliver briefly; for their better instruction and satisfaction. Fiftly, because myself am aged, and not fit, by reason of the increasing weakness of my body and memory, hereafter (if any flourishing busy wits list to oppose) to manage this cause, without much disparagement to it, and to myself: I thought good to allege many worthy Divines now living, that they might take upon them the defence of their own writings by me alleged, or impose it upon others more able in body then myself. Further, I confess, that it much troubled me, that I could not make my book shorter, without either making it too obscure, and un-intelligible: or else cutting off much matter fit to give the fuller satisfaction. For by this length of it, (I doubt) it will become tedious to many, to read it thorough, and carry away the matter in their memory. But I have helped this Inconvenience as much as I could, (1) by distinguishing the whole matter into Chapters, every Chapter being (as it were) a several Treatise by itself, which may be read alone; without reference to the rest, And (2) by dividing the Chapters (if they be long) into Sections, (and sometimes also the Sections into Subsections) and Paragraphes (marked thus §) setting down the sums of the Chapters and Sect●ons, in the beginning, and before them: for the quicker finding or refinding of the matters therein contained; and the easier view and carrying away of the whole form of the discourse. The Style in Treatises of this nature is not required to be Rhetorical to please the ear, or as Sweetmeats to delight the Taste; but Scholastical, Logical, or Theological, that is, intelligible and significant to inform the understanding, and convict the conscience. Which if it perform, It is all that I affect, or thou mayest in reason expect in such a work. And now I leave it to thy diligent reading and serious consideration, wishing thee often to commend both the Writer and Readers to God in thy prayers; Thine for Christ jesus, ANTHONY CADE. A Table of the chief heads and matters, according to the several Chapters, Sections, and Pages. The first Book. The first Chapter. The first ordinary, and great objection, of the Romish Churches Antiquity, and our English Churches Novelty: Paragraph. § 1ALleadged, odiously against the Protestants, and gloriously for the Romans. Page. 1 Paragraph. § 2 Sincerely answered, as vain: for that the Protestants firmly retain the true ancient saving faith. Page. 2 Paragraph. § 3 And only weed out the errors and corruptions crept into the Church as superseminated tares in God's field. Page. 3 Paragraph. § 4 As Hezekias and other good Princes did, very religiously in their times. Page. 4 Paragraph. § 5 So that the English Church differs no otherwise from the Romish, then as a field well weeded and governed, from a field still overgrown with weeds: or as Naaman cleansed, from the same Naaman formerly leprous. Page. 4 Paragraph. § 6 And the Protestants are not separated from the good sound things found in the Roman Church: but from the Papacy, which is not to be accounted the Church, but a domineering faction, or disease in the Church. Page. 5 Paragraph. § 7 The ancient Martyrs suffered not for the Doctrines of this Papacy, but for the Doctrines which the Protestants bold. Page. 6 (Hereunto the Reader may add, that which is written chap. 3. §. 8. pag. 27. that This newness of Religion is retorted upon the Romish Church, which now holds many points new, never held by any Church in former times, some of them not in 600 years, some not in 1000, some not in 12 hundred years and more after Christ.) CHAP. 2. Of errors creeping into the Church. Paragraph. § 1 Any particular Church may in time receive errors and corruptions. Page. 9 Paragraph. § 2 As did those of the Old Testament. Page. 10 Paragraph. § 3 And of the New Testament. Page. 11 Paragraph. § 4 For which we find many reasons in the Scriptures. Page. 12 Paragraph. § 5 The Roman Church is not excepted. Page. 14 Paragraph. § 6 Yea, the Roman Church is warned in Scripture to take heed lest is be cut off for its corruptions. Page. 14 Paragraph. § 7 And it hath been corrupted, De facto. Page. 15 Paragraph. § 8 Yea, Rome is confessed (by the very Romish Doctors) to be meant by the damnable mystical Babylon. Page. 16 Paragraph. § 9 And that Rome must be the sent of Antichrist: and that towards the end of the world. Page. 17 Paragraph. § 10 And Rome is that City that must be tainted with foul impieties, as well foregoing, as following Antichrist. All which their own Romish Doctors confirm. Page. 19 CHAP. 3 Of the time when corruptions came into the Romish Church. Paragraph. § 1 A designation of the time when corruptions began in the Roman Church required. Page. 20 Paragraph. § 2 Often required heretofore, and often answered. Page. 20, 21 Paragraph. § 3 Many corruptions crept in secretly and insensibly: as in humane societies, diseases in the body, tares and weeds in the fields. Page. 21 Paragraph. § 4 The Romanists acknowledge many changes, whereof they cannot show the beginnings. Page. 23, 24 Paragraph. § 5 Such things are best discerned, by their difference from the first pure doctrine. Page. 25, 26 Paragraph. § 6 The Romans cannot find the beginnings of our Doctrines on this side the Scriptures. Page. 26 Paragraph. § 7 We can, & do, show the beginnings of many of theirs. Page. 27 Paragraph. § 8 No Church in the world held the now- Romish Doctrines, but only that Church itself in those latter times. Page. 27 CHAP. 4. Of Corruptions in the Church of Rome, long before Luther's time, seen, written against, and Reformation wished for them. Page. 30 Paragraph. § 1 An historical narration, of the first age of the Church golden. Page. 31 Paragraph. § 2 But afterwards peeped up some seeds of corruption, misliked of many in the East, South and West Churches. Page. 32 Paragraph. § 3 A foul matter, of three pope's alleging a Counterfeit Canon of the Council of Nice, for their jurisdiction, which the whole Church of Africa withstood. Page. 34 Paragraph. § 4 Gregory the great wrote sharply against the Titles which now the pope's use. Page. 35 Paragraph. § 5 Bishops of the East Church, and of France, Germany, and Britain, opposed the pope about Jmages. Counsels against Counsels. Page. 36 Paragraph. § 6 Many thought Antichrist was then borne. Constantine's donation, & the decretal Epistles than first seen. Page. 37 Paragraph. § 7 A deluge of wickedness in the ninth and tenth Ages, as Bellarmine, Baronius, Genebrard, etc. record. Page. 38 Paragraph. § 8 After a thousand years, greater innudations of evils. The wicked pope Silvester 2 and Benedict 9 a child of about 10 years old. Then Cardinals arose. Page. 40 Paragraph. § 9 The Sultan subdueth many countries in the East; the Clergy are most wicked in the West. Letters from Hell to the Clergy. Anti-popes', and Anti-caesars'. Rebellion made Piety. Hildebrands Dictates, foundations of a new earthly-Church-Kingdome. Page. 42 Paragraph. § 10 The testimony of Friar Onuphrius, that Hildebrand (that is Gregory 7.) was the first raiser of the pope's princedom, about eleven hundred years after Christ. Many historians speak of his devilishness. Page. 45 Paragraph. § 11 Campians historians rejected by his own fellows. Page. 47 Paragraph. § 12 Grave Divines against Romish corruptions, Bernard, Sarisburiensis, Grosthead, Occam, Cesenas, Clemangis, Gerson, Cameracensis, Valla, etc. Page. 49 Paragraph. § 13 These and many others, wrote not only against Corruptions of manners, but of doctrine also. Schoolmen's philosophical divinity, corrupted pure doctrine. Doctrine framed to maintain wealth and greatness. Page. 53 Paragraph. § 14 Particular doctrines, wherein learned men differed from the pope's faction. Page. 55 Paragraph. § 15 Oxford alone afforded many learned men opposing Romish corruptions. Page. 58 Paragraph. § 16 Reformation was sought for, and promised by some pope's, as very needful; but could not finally be attained. The Scriptures disgraced: Traditions uphold Romish doctrine. Page. 65 CHAP. 5. A note of the chief points of Christian doctrine, wherein the Protestants and Romanists fully agree, showing also the Romish additions, whereunto the Protestants cannot agree, as being not ancient, not true, or not needful, but very corrupt. Page. 70 Paragraph. § 1 Of one God in substance, and three persons: 2 Canonical Scriptures. Page. 70, 71 Paragraph. § 3 Of the original Hebrew, and Greek authentic. 4 Of the word written, being the sure ground of faith 5 Of Traditions. 6 The three Creeds. Page. 74, 76 Paragraph. § 7 Of God's worship in Spirit and Truth. Page. 77 Paragraph. § 8 Of prayer in a known tongue, 9 And to God alone. 77 10 Of Christ our Mediator. 11 Of Saints praying for us. 12 Of honour due to Saints departed. Page. 78 Paragraph. 13 Of justification by Christ's merits. Page. 79 Paragraph. 14 Of man's inherent righteousness & sanctification. Page. 79 Paragraph. 15 Of contrition, confession, satisfaction, and vivification, etc. Page. 79 Paragraph. 16 Of such good works as God hath prescribed. Page. 81 Paragraph. 17 Of freewill. Page. 81 Paragraph. 18 That works done by grace, please God, and are rewarded of him. Page. 82 Paragraph. 19 Of two Sacraments, seals and conduits of justifying grace. Page. 82 Paragraph. 20 That to the well prepared Receivers, God gives as well the justifying and sanctifying grace, as the outward elements. Page. 82 Paragraph. 21 That the worthy Communicant really partaketh Christ's Body and Blood. Page. 82 Paragraph. 22 Of heaven for the blessed, hell for the damned. Page. 83 Paragraph. 23 Of Christ's satisfaction for our sins. Page. 83 Paragraph. 24 That we ought to pray for all the members of Christ's militant Church upon earth. Page. 83 Paragraph. § 2 The Protestants doctrine in general justified by two Cardinals, Contarene and Campeggio, and our Liturgy by Pope Pius 4. Page. 83 Paragraph. § 3 But the Pope's reach further at an earthy Church kingdom proved. Page. 85 Paragraph. § 4 And they challenge a supremacy over all Christians and Churches in the world. Page. 89 Paragraph. § 5 More specially over the Clergy, exempting them from being subjects to Princes, either for bodily punishments or goods. Page. 90 Paragraph. § 6 Yea, a supremacy over all Christian Princes and their states, to depose, dispose, and transpose them: and to absolve subjects from their Allegiance, to rebel, etc. hence comes treasons, etc. Page. 92 Paragraph. § 7 To dissolve bonds, oaths and leagues. Page. 95 Paragraph. § 8 To give dispensations, to contract matrimony in degrees by God's laws forbidden & to dissolve lawful matrim. Page. 96 Paragraph. § 9 And other dispensations and exemptions from laws. Page. 99 CHAP. 6. Paragraph. Of policies to maintain the Pope's Princedom and wealth. Page. 102 Paragraph. § 1 Depriving men of the light of the Scriptures. Page. 102 Paragraph. § 2 And of ordinary orderly preachings, in stead whereof the Pope set up ambulatory preachers (Monks and Friars) to preach what was good for his state, without control of Church-Ministers, Officers, or Bishops. Page. 103 Paragraph. § 3 Schoolman's too-much subtlety and philosophy filled men's heads, darkened and corrupted wholesome Theology. Page. 109 Paragraph. § 4 Jesuits and their original (after Luther's time) noted, their Seminaries, emissions, faculties, insinuations, and most politic employments. Page. 110 Paragraph. § 5 Cardinals (a most powerful and politic invention.) Page. 114 Paragraph. § 6 Provision for men and women of all sorts, high and low, by Monasteries, to sustain and satisfy all humours. Page. 118 Paragraph. § 7 Auricular confession, discovering many secrets, and finding humours fit for all employments, etc. Page. 120 Paragraph. § 8 Her policies to get wealth. Page. 121 Paragraph. § 9 Purgatory a rich thing. Page. 122 Paragraph. § 10 So are indulgences or pardons. Page. 122 Paragraph. § 11 And jubiles. Page. 123 Paragraph. § 12 Corruptions of Doctrine, touching merits and justification, etc. Page. 125 Paragraph. § 13 Things hallowed by the pope. Page. 126 Paragraph. § 14 Extraordinary exactions, most grievous to Nations, most rich to the pope. Page. 126 The second Book. Chap. 1. THe first Chapter is a discourse of the visibility of the Church, and fully answereth that common question of the Romists, where was the Protestants Church before Luther's time? This Chapter is large, and for better satisfaction and perspicuity, is divided into four sections. The first section showeth how visible the true Church ought to be. Page. 136 The second, showeth, that the Protestants Church hath evermore been so visible as the true Church ought to be. For it was the same in all necessary doctrine, first with the Primitive Church, and afterwards also with the Greek and Eastern Churches. 149 The third section showeth, the Waldenses were of the same Religion which the Protestants maintain; and delivereth a sufficient historical discourse of the Waldenses. 155 The fourth section showeth, that our Church and the Church of Rome was all one in substance till Luther's time. For even till then the Church of Rome continued to be the true Church of God, excepting the Popacy, and the maintainers thereof, which was rather a sore or a faction in the Church, than any true or sound part thereof. 195 Chap. 1. These principal Sections are also subdivided into Subsections, and those into smaller Paragraphes, noted thus. §. Sect. 1. subsect. 1. So the first Section (which showeth, How visible the true Church ought to be) hath two Subsections. The first Subsection. Paragraph. § 1 Sheweth an objected description of the excellency of the Church, and a necessity of the perpetual succession and visibility thereof. Page. 136 Paragraph. § 2 That for a thousand years and more, our Church was all one with the Roman, notwithstanding some growing corru●tions. Page. 138 Paragraph. § 3 After that coruptions grew intolerable in the Roman Church, yet many misliked them, and held the truth. Page. 138 Paragraph. § 4 The whole Catholic Church can never be visible to men at once, but parts of it may and must. Page. 139 Paragraph. § 5 The promises of purity and eternal life do not belong to all the Called, but to the Few chosen; whose true faith to men is invisible, though their persons and profession be visible. Page. 140 Paragraph. § 6 And so much Bellarmine and many other Romanists yield. Page. 141 Subsect. 2 The second subsection. 143 Paragraph. § 1 Some promises of God concern the outward spreading of the Church, and some the inward Graces. Page. 143 Paragraph. § 2 The outward spreading, and glorious visibility, is not at all times alike. Page. 144 Paragraph. § 3 So Saint Ambrose, and Saint Austen teach, by comparing the Church to the Moon. Page. 145 Paragraph. § 4 Many Fathers and Romish Doctors say, that in the time of Antichrist, the Church will be obscure, and hardly visible. Page. 145 Paragraph. § 5 Which (say Valentinianus, and many Fathers) was fulfilled in the Arrians time. Page. 146 Paragraph. § 6 The jesuite Valentinianus grants as much invisibility of the Church, as the Protestants desire. Page. 147 Paragraph. § 7 Observations out of his grant. Page. 148 Chap. 1. Sect. 2. subsect. 1 The second section (showing, that the Protestant Church hath evermore been so visible, as the Church of Christ ought to be) hath two subsections. Paragraph. The first subsection (concerning the first times.) Page. 149 Paragraph. § 1 Sheweth that the Protestants labour sincerely to teach the same doctrine which the Scriptures and the Fathers taught. Page. 149 Paragraph. § 2 As appears by Irenaeus, Tertullian, and the Creeds. Page. 150 Paragraph. § 3 But the Romists cannot allege the Fathers for their new doctrines; much less the Scriptures. Page. 151 Paragraph. Subsect. 2. The second subsection (concerning the latter times.) Page. 152 Paragraph. § 1 Propounding (1) the Eastern and Greek Churches: (2) Waldenses, etc. and (3) the Roman Church itself, misliking and groaning under the tyranny of the Papacy, and desiring reformation. Page. 152 Paragraph. § 2 The Greek Church condemned by the Romish, as heretical. Page. 153 Paragraph. § 3 Is cleared by Scotus, Lombard, Aquinas, and others. Page. 153 Chap. 1. Sect 3. The third section (showing that the Waldenses were of the Protestant Religion) hath four subsections. The first of their doctrine pag. 155. The second, of their great numbers, and visibility, pag. 166. The third of their large spreading into all Countries, pag. 177, the fourth of their continuance until Luther's time and after. pag 181. Subsect. 1. The first Subsection. Paragraph. § 1 Of the Waldenses. Page. 155 Paragraph. § 2 Their diverse names, but all of one Religion. Page. 155 Paragraph. § 3 To wit, of the Protestant Religion, as say Aeneas Silvius, Du Bravius, Poplinerius, Cocleus, Gretserus, Eckius, etc. Page. 156 Paragraph. § 4 Many bad opinions, badly and falsely imputed to th●m. Page. 158 Paragraph. § 5 Nine Articles different from the Protestants, ascribed unto them by Parsons the jesuite, but cleared by authentic Authors. Page. 160 The second subsection. Paragraph. § 1 Of the great number of the Waldenses. Page. 166 Paragraph. § 2 Their disputations with the Romish Doctors. Page. 168 Paragraph. § 3 Mighty wars against them, as against the Pope's most potent enemies. The pope's every way laboured to subdue them, by continual cursings, wars, and Inquisitions by Friars new sprung up, about 12 hundred years after Christ: threescore thousand put to the sword at once. Page. 169 Paragraph. § 4 Carcasson, a great and strong City, taken by composition, and made the head City of the war: and the famous Simon Montfort made General. Page. 171 Paragraph. § 5 6 and 7 New Armies against the Waldenses gathered out of all Christendom, by the pope's Croysadoes, pardoning sins, and giving salvation to all that would fight against them (as before § 3. pag. 170.) Tolous taken. The King of Arragon (in aid of the Waldenses) intercepted by ambush, and slain. Page. 172 Paragraph. § 8 Tolous recovered by the Waldenses. Simon slain. The King of France continueth the Wars, sends his own son (crossed) with a great Army: and diverse other Armies after: but to little purpose. For the Waldenses (otherwise called the Albigenses) prospered, and recovered Carcasson (fourteen years after the loss of of it) and spread exceedingly in many Countries. Page. 174 Paragraph. § 9 The Earl of Tolous submits to the Pope: but finding himself deceived betwixt the pope and his Legate, he fortifies Auignon. The King of France besieged it, swore never to departed, till he had taken it, but finally (after great losses) died mad. The Legate unable by force, gets it by fraud and perjury. Page. 175 Paragraph. § 10 Tolous overthrows the French Armies. The Pope and French King offers him peace. The great wars cease. Counsels are held to root out the Albigenses. Page. 176 Paragraph. § 11 Ignorance (not only of Scriptures, but) of Histories makes men love the Pope. Page. 177 Subsect. 3. The third subsection. Paragraph. Sheweth how the Waldenses were spread into all Countries: namely, (for example) Spain, England, Scotland, Italy, Germany, Bohemia, Saxony, Pomerania, Polonia, Liv●nia, Lituania, Digonicia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Dalmatia, Constantinople, Sclavonia, Sarmatia, Philadelphia. In all parts of France: In Italy also they had Churches, in Lombardy, Milan, Romagna, Vicence, Florence, val Spoletine, etc. Page. 177 Subsect. 4. The fourth subsection. Paragraph. § 1 The Waldenses continued above 400 years, until Luther's time and after. Page. 181 Paragraph. § 2 In England by means of Wicliffe. Page. 182 Paragraph. § 3 Wicliffes' Doctrine, and many followers. Oxford Divines. Page. 182 Paragraph. § 4 5 6 and 7. The story of john Hus, jerom of prague, and Bohemian affairs. Page. 189 Paragraph. § 8 and 9 The continuance of the Waldenses after Luther's time. Luther wrote a Preface to one of their books commending it. Letters passed betwixt them and Oecolampadius, Bucer, Calvine, etc. Page. 192 Chap. 1. Sect. 4. The fourth Section. Paragraph. § 1 Showing, that the Church of Rome, (excepting the Papacy, and the maintainers thereof) continued to be the true Church of God, and the same with ours, until Luther's time: proved by many Protestant Divines, Luther, Caluin, Beza, Morney, Melanchthon Bucer, Master Deering, Master Richard Hooker, Bishop Usher, Bishop Carlton, Bishop White, Doctor Field, etc. Page. 195 Paragraph. § 2 Their reasons. Paragraph. § 3 But now the state of that Church is much altered, since the new light in Luther's time, fully discovering and publishing the corruptions thereof, and since their obstinate defending their corruptions, and imposing them as Defide. Page. 200 Paragraph. § 4 Especially since the great alteration and addition of faith made by the Council of Trent. Page. 202 CHAP. 2. Paragraph. Answering the vain alleging of some words and customs: and the corrupt alleging of the Father's words against the Protestants. Page. 205 Paragraph. § 1 Objection. Non● (alleged in the former Chapter) agreed with the Protestants in all things: Ergo, are not of their Church or Religion. Page. 206 Paragraph. § 2 Answered. It is no consequent. For so also, every one of them differed from the present Romish Religion, and yet the Romish account them theirs. Protestants have justly abstained from some words and phrases of some Fathers. Page. 206 Paragraph. § 3 And also have left off some ceremonies & customs. Page. 209 Paragraph. § 4 As the Church of Rome hath left many (here mentioned) known to be ancient, and thought to be Apostolical. Page. 210 Paragraph. § 5 Which confutes the vanity of W.G. his book; & shows his own alleged authors by his own argument, to be none of his Church and Religion. Page. 214 Paragraph. § 6 By the same argument, many Fathers (for example, Athanasius, jerom, Gelasius, Gregory, chrysostom, Augustine) are plentifully proved to be against the present Church and Religion of Rome. Page. 216 Paragraph. § 7 Four several ways (at the least) the Romish make show of the Fathers to be for them: very deceitfully. The first, by alleging counterfeit books, falsely bearing the Father's names. Many examples hereof. Page. 223 Paragraph. § 8 The second, by corrupting the books which the Fathers wrote, putting words in, or out, and altering the text (and so printing them new) making them speak now contrary to their meaning. Examples hereof. Page. 228 Paragraph. § 9 The third by blinding or perverting the sense of the Father's sentences, by glozes and interpretations. Instances. Page. 232 Paragraph. § 10 The fourth by citing the Fathers to prove that which is not in question. Examples thereof. Page. 234 CHAP. 3. Paragraph. Of the differences of Fathers and Protestants, and of their contentions. Page. 236 Paragraph. § 1 Many Fathers are confessed (by all sides) to have held some erroneous opinions, which none are bound to receive: and yet in the substance of Religion, were good Catholic Christians, and our Predecessors. Page. 236 Paragraph. § 2 Many differences also are noted among Romish Doctors, which yet hinder them not from being all accounted Catholics. Page. 243 Paragraph. § 3 The differences among Protestants are nothing so great or many, as those afore noted of the Fathers, and of the Romish; the especial one, about the manner how Christ is present in the blessed Sacrament, is much less than it seemeth. Page. 248 Paragraph. § 4 The pope's unwillingness to reform manifest abuses by the way of general Counsels, was the cause of all differences in Reformed Churches: when each several state was compelled to reform a part, without sufficient general consultations with other Nations. Page. 250 Paragraph. § 5 The Protestants contentions for God's cause, (as they take it) are nothing so hot or troublesome, is the contentions of many ancient holy Fathers, have been about smaller matters. View the examples. Page. 253 CHAP. 4. Paragraph. Of the rule to judge the soundness and purity of all Christians, and Churches by. Page. 261 This Chapter hath four sections Page. 261 Paragraph. The first section: of the rule used in the Primitive Church. Page. 261 Paragraph. The second; of the Rule enlarged and approved in this Age. Page. 268 Paragraph. The third; of objections arising from the former discourses, and their answers. Page. 280 Paragraph. The fourth; of the necessity of preaching still to them that hold this rule. Page. 288 The first section. Paragraph. § 1 The rule in general. Page. 261 Paragraph. § 2 Opened by distinctions of the foundation of Religion. Page. 262 Paragraph. § 3 A necessity of a short rule drawn out of the Scriptures. Page. 262 Paragraph. § 4 This rule is described by S. Paul. Page. 263 Paragraph. § 5 The practice of it by the Apostles, who delivered the most necessary fundamental points to the jews, and then baptised them. Page. 265 Paragraph. § 6 The like practice used by the following Primitive Church to their Catechumeni before Baptism. Page. 266 The second section. Paragraph. § 1 The rule enlarged, and approved in this Age. Page. 268 Paragraph. § 2 By Azorius out of the Schoole-divines, in 14 Articles. Page. 269 Paragraph. § 3 Some observations and censures of those 14 Articles. Page. 272 Paragraph. § 4 The rule set down by Bellarmine, more briefly. Page. 273 Paragraph. § 5 By Doctor Field fare more sufficiently in 6 Articles, with his judgement of the deductions therefrom, evident or obscure. Page. 274 Paragraph. § 6 Bishop Ushers distinction of superstructions upon the foundation. Page. 277 Paragraph. § 7 Consequents of this doctrine. Page. 278 The third section. Paragraph. § 1 Objection. If holding the foundation will serve, than we may easily obtain salvation in the Church of Rome. Page. 280 Paragraph. § 2 Answer. The Church of Rome holds many things, which by consequent destroys the foundation, by (the most moderate) Master hooker's judgement. Page. 281 Paragraph. § 3 Objection. This crosseth what was said before: That many before Luther's time, might be saved in the Roman Church. Answ. No, for they lived in those errors of ignorance, not obstinacy, and not knowing any dangerous consequence of them. Page. 282 Paragraph. § 4 Such men by particular repentance of sins known, and general repentance of unknown, might by God's mercy be saved. Page. 284 Paragraph. § 5 Observations hereof. Page. 285 Paragraph. § 6 Other learned Protestants join in opinion with Master Hooker. Page. 286 The fourth section. Paragraph. § 1 There is a necessity, or great profit of preaching, even to them that are well grounded in all necessary principles. Page. 288 Paragraph. § 2 As Israel needed all helps after the giving of the Law: and all were too little. Page. 289 Paragraph. § 3 The profits of preaching in general. Page. 290 Paragraph. § 4 Some particulars, for continual spiritual food, cordial medicine and comfort, memory, armour, etc. Page. 290 Paragraph. § 5 The continual need thereof was found in all Churches, planted even by the Apostles, and in their times. Page. 292 CHAP. 4. Paragraph. Of the succession of the Protestants Bishops and Ministers, from the Apostles. Page. 296 Paragraph. Section 1. The necessity thereof, urged, without which there can be no Church. Page. 296 Paragraph. 2 This succession is clamourously denied to Protestants. Page. 299 Paragraph. 3 But manifestly proved, and the slanders confuted. Page. 300 Paragraph. 4 Particularly in Cranmer, our first Archbishop. Page. 302 Paragraph. 5 In other Bishops of King Henry 8 his time. Page. 304 Paragraph. 6 And of King Edward 6. and of Queen Mary's time. Page. 306 Paragraph. 7 And of Queen Elizabeth's time. Page. 306 Paragraph. 8 The false reports whereof do alienate many from the Reformed Religion. Page. 309 Paragraph. 9 A proof of the sufficient ordination of Ministers in foreign Reformed Churches. Page. 310 Paragraph. 10 Which is further confirmed by the doctrine and practice of the Romish. Page. 312 CHAP. 6. Paragraph. Of the Pope's supremacy, challenged over the whole Church. page 1 Paragraph. § 1 The necessity thereof urged, as the main pillar of Religion. Page. 1 Paragraph. § 2 The matter and method of the Answer propounded. Page. 4 Paragraph. § 3 The ancient Church yielded to Rome (as the greatest and most honourable City of the world, and seat of the Empire) to have the dignity of one of the five Patriarcks. Page. 5 Paragraph. § 4 And among the Patriarches, sometime the first or chiefest place. Page. 6 Paragraph. § 5 Which dignity the ambition and covetousness of following pope's have much impaired. Page. 8 Paragraph. § 6 And have challenged that dignity (which was anciently yielded unto their predecessors for their sanctity, and for politic reasons) and much more also, by authority of the Scriptures. But Bellarmine gathering the pith of all learned writers, can find no strength in them by any Scriptures to main the Papacy: as in their chiefest places, Matth. 16.18. Page. 11 Paragraph. § 7 And john 21.15 etc. Page. 16 Paragraph. § 8 Observe the Romish strange extractions out of the words, Feed my Sheep. Page. 18 Paragraph. § 9 And other learned-foolish allegations of other Scriptures. Page. 20 Paragraph. § 10 The Scripture against the supremacy of Peter. Page. 23 Paragraph. § 11 And the fathers are urged for it vainly, beyond their meaning. Page. 24 Paragraph. § 12 The Fathers are manifestly against it. Page. 29 Paragraph. § 13 Saint- Peter prerogatives were personal, and descended not to his successors. Page. 32 Paragraph. § 14 The conclusion: collecting the parts of this Chapter briefly, and justifying the Protestants. Page. 35 CHAP. 7. Of the Pope's infallible judgement in guiding the Church by true Doctrine. Paragraph. § 1 It cannot be proved by Scriptures, or Fathers, or by the Analogy to the chief Priests of the Old Testament. Page. 40 Paragraph. § 2 Neither is such infallibility now necessary in any man. Page. 44 Paragraph. § 3 But if in any man, most improbably in the Popes, whereof some have been children, and many most wicked men, and monsters of men. Page. 45 Paragraph. § 4 And many Popes have erred (De facto) in judgement. Page. 50 Paragraph. § 5 Which all the Romists distinctions, and evasions cannot avoid. Page. 51 Paragraph. § 6 The manifold and manifest judgement of Antiquity overthrows this supposed infallibility. Page. 56 Paragraph. For I. The ancients ever accounted the Pope's fallible. Page. 56 Paragraph. II. They never in their writings mentioned their infallibility. Page. 56 Paragraph. III. But rejected often both their Jurisdiction and judgement. Page. 57 Paragraph. FOUR If infallible judgement in the pope had been established and believed, the Father's studies and commentaries upon the Scriptures had been needless. Page. 58 Paragraph. V And Counsels had been called to no purpose. Page. 58 CHAP. 8. Of the good which the Pope's supremacy might do to the Church and States by uniting Christian Princes among themselves, and against the Turk. Paragraph. § 1 This is urged. Page. 60 Paragraph. § 2 But answered, that policies agreeable to God's word, and the Primitive Church only are sufficient, and blessed by God. Page. 61 Paragraph. § 3 But this policy (binding men to unity under some one head) might be set up by any sect, to maintain any errors or wickedness. Page. 62 Paragraph. § 4 And experience hath proved it very unprofitable, and untollerable, to all Churches and states (saving to the Popes own state, wealth, and greatness.) Page. 63 Paragraph. § 5 As is showed by the miserable troubles in Christendom, wrought by Hildebrand; who first set up the Pope's Princedom (as Onuphrius saith) about eleven hundred years after Christ. Page. 64 Paragraph. § 6 And by the voyages against the Turk, which finally proved profitable to the Pope, not to Christian Princes. Page. 68 Paragraph. § 7 As appeareth by the Stories of Pope Gregory 9 and the Emperor Frederick 2. Page. 69 Paragraph. § 8 And many other most wicked Popes, Page. 74 Paragraph. § 9 The Emperor Phocas erred much in government, in making the Pope so great, so fare from him. For Pope's shortly after proved Masters of misrule, ejecting the Emperors out of Italy. Page. 76 Paragraph. § 10 Their turbulent proceeding to dethrone Princes. Page. 78 Paragraph. § 11 Their troubles wrought in England, in King Henry the first his time, by Anselm Archbishop of Canterbury: In King Henry the 2 his time, by Becker: In King john's time, by Pope Innocent. Page. 80 Paragraph. § 12 In these later times, of Queen Elizabeth by the Bull of Pope Pius Quintus, deposing her: and by erecting at Rome and Rheims, Seminaries, that is Schools to breed Traitors, and draw her subjects to disobedience, treasons, and rebellions. Page. 89 Paragraph. A brief enumeration of some treasons in Queen Elizabeth's time. The Rebellion in the North. Page 91 And other petty conspiracies Page 92 . Page 93 Of Ormonds' brethren. Page 92 Of Stukely. Page 93 Someruile. Page 94 Motives to the Ladies of Honour. Page 94 Mendoza. Page 94 Doctor Parry. Page 95 Savage. Page 96 Aubespineus. Page 96 The Spanish Armado. Page 97 Squire. Page 99 In the time of King james, Watson Clark & others. Page 102 Throgmorton. Page 94 Creighton the jesuite. Page 95 Percy. Page 96 Ballard. Page 96 Stanley and York. Page 97 Lopez. Page 99 Tyrone. Page 100 The Powder Treason. Page 102 Paragraph. § 13 Some observations out of these. A good Christian abhorreth these Treasons, and therefore cannot like of that doctrine that teacheth them. Page. 106 Paragraph. § 14 Therefore every good man is forced (by reason) to renounce to be an absolute Papist: and therefore cannot think the doctrines grounded only upon the Pope's authority without Scripture to be necessary: and consequently must acknowledge that it is not necessary to be a Roman-Catholicke. Page. 108 Paragraph. The conclusion, with a brief Recapitulation of the whole precedent conference. Page. 110 Friendly Reader, before thou readest these books, amend with thy pen, these grosser faults which (most of them) pervert the sense. PAge 1. In the first line of the Text, for notice read motive. p. 18. l. 29. r. under the persecuting Emp. p. 33. 4. then they gave to other holy Bishops. p. 45. 26. Of all the Bishops. ib lin. 27. first that (trusting p. 76. ma●g. l. ●. x. Boniface 8. lived anno 1300 p. 81. 6. and reciting. ib. lin 8 p●lgrimages. p. 85. 11. is insufficient to set up. p. 86. 14. there be not more care. p 89. 17. but were built. p. 98. 1. for the Pope ment. p. 104. 14. and make of Christ's militant Church a Church triumphant upon earth. p. 109. lin. vlt. married. p. 112. 25. hath worn a girdle. p 1●6. 26. to the last times. p. 152. 28. we propose p. 208. 17. per sacramentum memoriae celebratur p. 244. 34. for Stoics read Scot●sts. p. 246. 31. for●t is no indignity p. 264. 30. root, author. p. 126. 9 must be diminished. p. 138. ●. latent invisible Church. p. 139. 25. it is not visible. p. 274. 34. full of ●ighte. 304 mark ad lin. 22. ordinator hareticus verè. In the second Alphabet. CC. p. 33. lin. ●4. put cut not. p. 46. mark lin. 26. Baronius anno 963. n. 17. p. 54. marg. l 25. Anno a Christ's nat●. 1033, a Christ's pass● 1000 Other faults there are scarce venial which deserve correction. Page 7. lin. 27. read wars and dissensions. p. 13. 13. Simon Magnus among them. p. 14. 9 for says, read truth. p. 20. 8. from the first pure d. p. 31. 8. Church kingdom ib. lin. 14. Cameracensis, ib. l. vlt. large authors. p. 37. 2●. Infallibitily. p. 38. 13. decretal. ib. l. 18. infamis. ib. l. 19 choked. ib. l. 25. saith, this. p. 40. 17. the ancient vitility. p. 42. 14. Calosyria ib. l. 23. schism 1. ib. l. 30. in mark Greg. 7 & libro. p. 43. 12. Releherspergensis. p. ●6. l. 12. and 18. Trithemius. ib. l. 30. Schafnaburgensis. p. 48 9 saith your Bish. linea antepenult. Valentianus. p. 50. 18. into his mouth. p. 51. l. vlt. foul and manifest. p. 52. lin. ante●en. Patricius. p. 51. 14. Divinity. p. 55. mark See these alleged in my third book. p. 57 14. this circumgestation. p. 60 8. Gualther Mapes. p. 61. 24. john Ba●●●thor●. p. 63. 15. Sod●●●● dominatur p. 64 2. Lorell p 80. 26. an● beautifying all. p 87. 16. abjuration p. 90 for [Chap. 5.] put [§ 5.] p. 91. 2. robbers. ib. l. ●●. acknowledged. p 93 4. to the P●pe. To give p. 96. put ●ut mark Annal. Elizabethae. Camden Apparat. pag. 2. and place it pag. 97. against Pope Iul●us the 2. etc. p. 99 1. searching. p. 101. 19 frustrated. p. 115. 27. put out [this dignity is not new, (sait● Bellarmine, b.) for it 500 years old: ●ut surely that is new that came not in till after twice 500 years, and more] and place those words a●ter the note— aft●r the words Sect. 3. p. 128. 29 furnished. p. 140. mark Ecclesie prom●tte●. p. 143. and often elsewhere is printed Valentinianus for Valentianus. p. 147. 25. ha' h God utterly forsaken. p. 153. 35 read 370 years after Christ p. 155. 21. Eckius. p. 161. 21. other vices. p. 196. 8. yet we do not think p. 210. 2. & oft the foremost devouring p 211. 32. Athanasius p. 220. 34 whereon. p. 2●6. 11. suppositions p. 234. 12. a whole book p. 243. 25. members all of p. 2 17. 11. being voided. ib lin. 16. not the Church's opinion p 209. mark ad. li. 18 read 2 Cor. 5. ●. & 6. 3. Eph. 4. 12. col. 4. 17. ● tim. 1. 12. 2 tim. 4. 5. p. 103. 35. pontificatus nostri decimo. p. 308 25. in the more p 311. mark ● Armachanus lib. 11. in q. Armeniorum c. p. 7. Numbers of pages are sometimes misprinted; and Sections, which may be amended by this general I able. In the second Alaphabet. pag. 65. add to the marginal notes, Avenein. A●nal. ●●ior. lib. 5 See Tortura Torti pag. 264. p 71. lin. penul wasted it with fire. Other smaller s●●pt in letters or points, I note not; they will trouble the Reader less in ●●ading, then amending. The most are amended. The Preface, or Jntroduction, containing 1 a brief description of the parties conferring in this Dialogue. 2 The purpose and profit of the conference touched: 3 The manner of it intended, in all humility and meekness of spirit: 4 the matter, solidity of Arguments and allegations out of the best Authors of both sides. Roman-Catholicke. 1 ALthough in mine own judgement, I am sufficiently resolved of the verity and sanctity of the Roman-Catholicke-Religion; and am loath to be either unsettled or disquieted again by any further conference: yet to give satisfaction to my tried honest and good friends, Such should be the qualities of a good Minister as may win the love of the Adversaries. who urge me once again to confer with a grave learned Minister hereby; I am content to go to the man. And the rather, because (besides his learning) I know him to be very honest, just, loving, and of a meek spirit; And here he comes. Save ye Sir. Protestant Minister. Master Candidus, I have much longed to meet you. The Lord now give a blessing to our meeting. I have heard, with no small grief of heart, by some of your good friends, that you are fallen into mislike of our Church of England, and into liking of the present Religion of Rome. Now in tender care of your salvation, I desire to confer with you thereabout, to try if by God's gracious blessing I may be a means to resolve and settle you in the truth. Rom. Sir, I would have you to think, that I have a great care of my salvation, and in simplicity of my heart, and tenderness of conscience, and not for any other by respect, I have sought the true way to salvation, and doubt not but I have found it. And therein I am so well settled, that you may spare your labour. Prot. I doubt not, but in the simplicity of your heart, and desire of the truth, you have laboured in this weighty matter. For I have observed you always to be of an honest disposition, sober, temperate, advised & of discreet conversation: for which fair carriage of life you have gained the surname of Candidus. Good natures misled are much to be pitied. And I have also found you zealous of God's honour. So fare as your knowledge did lead you. The more it grieveth me, that so honest a nature should be abused & misled by bad Teachers. But I pray you consider that Saint Paul himself was blameless in life, devout and zealous in his Religion, when it was erroneous (as you are now) and thought his courses marvelous godly, and much tending to God's glory. He was instructed by Gamaliel, Act. 2.3. Phil. 3.6. a learned Doctor, according to the perfect manner of the Law of the Fathers (as was then thought) & was zealous towards God, and touching the righteousness of the Law, blameless: and of very zeal persecuted the true Church of God: and thought he was bound in conscience to do many things contrary to the name of jesus. A & s 26.9. So that men may think, they are in the holy way of truth, and may be devout and zealous therein, and yet be fare wrong. As we hold those of the Romish Religion to be at this day, who persecute the Reformed Churches of Christ which profess to hold the doctrine of the holy Scripture entire, without admitting any other grounds of Religion. Remember what our blessed Saviour foretold, john 16.2. John 16.2. Venit hora, ut omnis qui interficit vos, arbitretur obsequium se praestare Deo. The time cometh that whosoever killeth you, will think he doth God service. This was fulfilled in part, quickly. As in Acts 13.50. The jews stirred up devout and honourable-women, Acts 13.50. and the chief men of the City, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas and expelled them out of their coasts. So that people that are devout and zealous in their Religion yet may be in the wrong: and had need well to examine their grounds. Rom These examples may as well be applied to the Protestants, as to the Catholics. Prot. You apply them to the Protestants: we to your new Catholics. Let the unpartial world judge, who are the persecutors, and who are the persecuted. But hereby you may see, mortal men must not be too hastily resolved, but first thoroughly examine the truth of their grounds, whereupon they build their Faith. Lest they run amiss, as Saul did, though taught by Gamaliel; and as the devout honorable-women, and chief men of the City did, being stirred up by the jews. Rom. But when a man is well resolved upon good grounds: why should he disquiet himself, and call his Faith into question again? Prot. The question is whether his grounds be good or no. Saint Paul before his conversion, and these honourable-women thought as well of their grounds, as you do of yours: and yet were deceived in them. But beside this, there is another reason, why you should thoroughly know the strength of your grounds, to wit for the winning, satisfying, & confirming of others. To which end S. Peter saith (1 Pet. 3.15.) Be always ready to give satisfaction to every one that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear. So then both for your own fuller resolution in the truth, and for the satisfaction of me or any other, I pray you let us seriously confer of these weighty matters. Rom. With all my heart. So it be done in that manner which Saint Peter there prescribeth: with meekness, fear, and a good conscience. For rough, rude, biting, and railing speeches, argue rather a blinded heart, or a proud, scornful, and unmortified man, than one endued with God's grace, love and patience, such as is fit to win others with all long suffering and doctrine. 2 Tim. 2.24.25. and 4.2. 1 Tim. 5.1.2. and 3.3. Prot. Sir we pray with understanding in our English Litany, from all blindness of heart, from pride, vainglory, and hypocrisy, from envy, hatred, and malice, and all uncharitableness: good Lord deliver us. Rom. It is a good prayer. I would it were well liked and practised of you all. Prot. You shall find me not only patiented, but exceeding pitiful, and full of commiseration to you, and to all other well-minded men that are seduced, that be Errones only, and not Turbones (as Lipsius distinguisheth them) not wilful but ready to yield to sound reason, justus Lipsius. Politic. and to the truth when it manifestly appears: such as be vere Candidi, as I hope you be. But against those wicked seducers, that wilfully persist to blindfold themselves and you by Pious frauds (as they call them) and keep you on their side for by-respects, contrary to the truth laid open to their eyes; you must give me leave to use just indignation, As we see the Prophets, our Saviour and his Apostles did. Rom. Whomsoever you shall prove to be such I will join with you in your lust indignation, and abhor them. I account no fraud pious: nor lawful to do evil that good may come of. But by forgery and deceit to misled simple souls from the truth in Religion, I account most detestable. Prot. If it please you then to allege your best and most solid reasons whereby you are moved to forsake our Church and embrace the now Roman Religion: I will be willing to answer you, Rom. I will do it not of mine own head, but out of the best and learnedest Authors of our side. Prot. And I will endeavour to answer out of the learnedest and most judicious Authors of the Protestants, and most especially out of our latest, pithiest, and substantiallest English writers, referring you to the books themselves, with notes of their Chapters, Sections, and Pages for your more thorough satisfaction and settling of your judgement: with like allegations also of your own best Authors, when they do (as they do often) yield us the truth. A JUSTIFICATION OF THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND. Demonstrating it to be a true Church of GOD, affording all sufficient means to SALVATION. CHAP. 1. The alleged, 1 antiquity of the Romish Church, and newness of the Protestants Church; 2 is showed to be vain for that the Protestants retain the ancient saving faith, and 3 only weed out the superseminated Tares: 4 as Hezekias and other good Princes did in their times. So that 5 these two Churches differ only as fields well weeded, and overgrown with weeds. And 6 Protestants are not separated from the good things found in the Roman Church, but from the Papacy which is a domineering faction in the Church: 7 For the Doctrines whereof, the ancient Martyrs suffered not, but for the Doctrines which Protestants hold. §. 1. Roman Catholic. IT is a sufficient notice to mislike and forsake the Protestants Church, because it is new, never seen nor heard of in the world, in any Age or Country, before Luther's time: for we know the true Church of Christ is ancient, Bellar. de notis Eccl●s l. b. 4. c. 5. G●eg. de Valent●a Analysis fidei l. 6. c. 12. Costerus Enchirid. cap. 2. §. convertat Campian. rat●o 4, 5, 6, 7. Doct Hil. reas. 1. And all Roman Writers triumph in this Argument. See B. White ag. Fisher p. 115. Cal. inst. l. 4. c. 2. §. 2. continued from our Saviour's own time: and such is the Church of Rome, founded upon the chief Apostles. S. Peter and S. Paul, manifestly traced throughout all Ages, with an honourable and certain succession of Bishops, the successors of S. Peter: All Tyrants, Traitors, Pagans, Heretics in vain wrestling, raging, & barking against it: confirmed by all worthy Counsels, the general grave Senates of God's highest Officers and Ministers upon earth: enriched with the Sermons and writings of all the sage, learned, and holy Doctors and Fathers: made famous by all those millions of Saints with their holiness, Martyrs with their sufferings, Confessors with their constancy: the building of Churches, Monasteries, Colleges, Universities; and by all excellent means made conspicuous and honourable to the whole world. Is it likely? is it possible? that this Church, so ancient, so honourable, so holy, and glorious, should all this while be false, heretical, and now to be forsaken and rejected? and a new particular Church lately moulded and erected by Luther, Melancton, Caluin, Beza, and a few other obscure upstarts, should be the only true Church to be embraced? or that the most gracious God would hide his saving truth from the world, fifteen hundred years, to the destruction and damnation of so many millions of souls: and now at last reveal it to a few in a corner? No Sir, give me leave herein to take the name of Antiquus, to live and dye in the old Religion, and to refuse your new. §. 2. Protestant. This is indeed the general enchantment, whereby those that compass Sea and Land to make Romish Proselytes, do bewitch the unwary: and were it true, it were able to draw all the world to become roman-catholics. But I pray you mark my countercharm, showing the untruth and weakness of your assertion. We of the Church of England do profess and protest, that we are of that a All our learned Bishops, Doc●ors, and Preachers, beat upon this point. B. jewel. Arch. Abbot. B. Abbot B. Bilson. B. Andrew's. B. Carlton. B. Barlow. B. Morton. B. Usher. B. Downan. B. White. B. Hall. D. ●ulk. D. Whitacres. D. Field. D. White B. Bot. D. utclis. D. Favour. Mr. Perkins. and innumerable others. true ancient Church of Christ, which you describe: b ●ee F●eld. Church. lib. 3. cap. 6. etc. that we hold entirely and sound, all that saving Doctrine which the blessed Son of God, brought into the world, and his Apostles taught, & wrote in the holy Scriptures, and which the ancient holy Fathers of the Primitive Church, held with great unity and universality for many ages. §. 3. c This is shewed, chap. 5. sect. ●. & Book 2. chap. 2. §. 6. & chap. 4. sect. 2. And we reject nothing, but the corruptions, errors, and abuses, that have crept into the Church in later times, and from small beginnings have grown at last to be great and untollerable: those only we have refused: and have reform our particular Churches in diverse Kingdoms and Nations, as near as we could, to the fashion of the first true, pure, and uncorrupt Churches: retaining all the Doctrines of the Church of Rome, which we found to be Catholic, or agreeable to the faith of the whole Church in all times and places. d See D. White against Fisher. pag. 68 But Doctrines not Catholic, being neither Primitive, belonging to the ancient Church, nor generally received by the whole Church, either at this day, nor in any other age, nor grounded upon the Scriptures, we have no reason to receive, as points necessary to salvation. And the points tending to superstition corruption, or depravation of God's honour, Christ's merits, our own salvation, the disturbance of the peace, or safety of Kingdoms, States, or commonwealths, we worthily abrogate, as intolerable and . And in these respects, as you assume the title of Antiquus so do I of Antiquissimus. And let you know, that e See D. Mortons' Appeal. lib. 4. cap. 16. sect. 4. §. 10. our Church is no new Church, devised by Luther, and other learned men, and received by Princes, affecting mutations: neither ever was it their purpose to do any such thing, but faithfully and religiously to purge out new corruptions, and to continue and maintain the substance and whole essence of the old Church of God, and all the sound Catholic Doctrines thereof, coming along thorough so many ages from the first planting of the Church to their times. §. 4. Read 2 Kings 1●. 4 5.6. and chap. 22. & 23. No otherwise then the most religious Kings, Hezekiah, and josiah, and other godly Rulers did in their dominions, (being moved by their learned Priests, and by their knowledge of God's Law) who removed the high places, and broke the Images, and cut down the Groves: spoiled the vessels made for Baal and for the Groves, and for the host of heaven: and put down the Idolatrous Priests, and the brazen Serpent also (though at first it was made by Gods own appointment, erected to good purpose, and was a figure of Christ) because it was now grown to be an instrument, and occasion of Idolatry: but they preserved still the old Religion and service of God entire and whole, and that much more pure than they found it. This when they did, can any man have the forehead to say, They erected a new Church, when they only purged and retained the old? or shall we be reviled and blamed for imitating Hezekias, Josias, and jehoshaphat, and in that, for which they were much praised and honoured in the Scriptures? §. 5. Observe then here, first the vanity and deceit of your Romish teachers, that (against their own knowledge) bewitch the simple people with this conceit, that our Church (forsooth) is a new Church, begun in Luther's time, little above an hundred years agone, and was never seen nor heard of in the world before. Whereas indeed there is no other difference betwixt the Roman Church and ours, then betwixt a corrupt Church (still maintaining her own corruptions for worldly respects) and a Church well reform according to the Scriptures, and the purest Primitive Churches: or betwixt the corrupt Idolatrous Church before Hezekiahs' time, 2 King. 18. and the same Church reform in and after his time. I may compare the whole Church of CHRIST in all her ages to Naaman the Syrian, 2 King. 5. who was honourable for bringing safety to his Nation. He was first pure and sound, and did many honourable acts, and thereby represented the Primitive Church, pure and clean, without spot or disease appearing: howbeit there might be some secret seeds of diseases unperceived, which in continuance of time grew into a visible leprosy. In his middle time he became leprous, diseased and deformed, foully infected in himself, and infecting others, and thereby represented the later Church of Rome. Afterwards by the Prophet's direction, he was washed and cleansed from his leprosy, and his flesh restored to become pure and perfect, like the flesh of a young child, and thereby represented our Reformed Churches. And as Naaman in all these three estates, was the same person, and not a new, divers, or several man (for Elisha made not a new man but cleansed the old of diseases, and restored him to his first soundness) so our Church is not a new Church, but the old Church reform from errors and corruptions, and restored to her ancient purity and soundness. Let the Church of Rome still glory in her leprosy and brag of the antiquity of some of her diseases: we thank God for our Churches cleansing, and the new restoring of it to the Primitive purity. §. 6. Secondly, observe, that we have not departed from the sound parts of the Church of Rome itself, (for the leprosy thereof was not universal, nor spread over all: there were many even in the corruptest ages of that Church, which taught the same saving doctrine that we do, See Chap. following. and misliked and wrote against the errors and abuses that we refuse) but our departure or separation, is only from the Papacy or Court of Rome, (which much oppressed the best members of the Church of Rome, and instead of Christ's heavenly Kingdom, set up and maintained an earthly, overtopping and abusing all other Christian Kingdoms) or our departure is, from that domineering faction in the Church, which (like an ill disease, and botch in the body) intolerably oppressed the Church, by imposing upon it errors in doctrine, and tyranny in government. But to the sound members of that Church, both of ancient and modern times, we are still conjoined and united, and herein, their and our Church continued always sufficiently visible. §. 7. Thirdly, observe (as a consequent of the former) that our Church is so fare from being new, that it is most ancient: the very same Church that our Saviour Christ and his blessed Apostles first founded. We succeed them both in succession of persons, as well as the Church men of Rome, and in succession of doctrine much better: So that we justly challenge our Saviour Christ and his Apostles to be ours: all the learned holy Fathers to be ours: the ancient Counsels, the blessed Saints, Martyrs and Confessors to be ours. For they taught, professed, lived and died in, and for those points of saving Religion, which we sound hold, and for none other. The Martyrs died for the profession of their faith and service to the true God, for believing in jesus Christ crucified (whom their persecutors scornfully called, the crucified God) and for their hope to be saved by his merits and passion: for their trust, comfort, and constancy in the Holy Ghost, and worshipping the holy, blessed, glorious, and individual Trinity: and for cleaving truly and constantly to the holy Scriptures and the doctrines grounded thereupon only, as the true rule of their faith: and (on the other side) for refusing to sacrifice, offer incense, or do worship to Idols and Heathen gods. They suffered not death for standing in defence of Image-worship, or for holding the doctrine of Purgatory so like to the Heathen Poets, Homer and Virgil: or for praying for the dead or to the dead: or for accusing the holy Scriptures of insufficiency and ambiguity, and forbidding Christian people to read them under great penalties, for fear of Heresy. For, such points would have pleased their Heathen persecutors well enough. Neither suffered they for crossing Christ's institution, in denying the Communion cup to God's people: or for worshipping a God made of a piece of bread; or for maintaining the Pope's gainful Indulgences, and Pardons, or for defence of their exorcised Holy-water, or other ceremonies: which would have been matter of scorn and laughter, rather than of persecution from the Heathen. Neither died they for defending the Pope's now-claimed Supremacy over all the Clergy, people, and Princes of the Christian world, direct, or indirect: which in those times, and many ages after, was never thought of nor claimed: and upon the first claim thereof, was most odious and hateful to the best Christians, and threw the world on heaps by grievous wars and dissolutions: nor for other points which the Church of Rome now maintaineth different from us, and which we refuse. And therefore the great flourish which you make of the antiquity of your Church, (including all the points, which at this day you do with all policy and violence maintain) utterly fails you, and indeed makes against you. For they are not the ancient doctrines of the Church, but later or newer inventions and corruptions, so that in respect of them your Religion is new and not ours; you are the Innovators, and not we. B. Usher De Eccles. successione pag. 66. The very same novelty which you impute to the Protestants, Wiclife long ago imputed to your Friars: crying out as in an agony, Good Lord, what moved Christ (being most omnipotent, most wise, most loving) to hide this faith of the Friars for a thousand years, and never taught his Apostles, and so many Saints the true faith, See hereafter chap. 6. sect. 2. §. 4.5, 6. but taught it these Hypocrites now first, which never came into the Church, until the impure spirit of Satan was loosed. Antiquus. Sir, I would it were so for my country's sake, that we might enjoy such a happily reformed Church as you speak of, with true comfort to our consciences, and hearty obedience to our Prince's Laws, and all love and happiness of the Kingdom and of our States. But all you have yet said are but words, you must give me leave to suspend my belief thereof, until you make good proof of what you affirm. Antiquissimus. The Poet said well, Non est beatus, esse qui se non putat. No man is happy, be he never so well, if he think himself not so. English men may be happy, Bona si sua norint, If they will but know their own happiesse. In deed, what both you and I have said yet, are but general words. We must first say, and afterwards prove. You have set down your assertion, I mine. Mine I am ready substantially to prove, even out of your own Authors, and Books which you cannot disallow which (I am well assured, having read your strongest Books) you can never do for yours. CHAP. 2. Of corruptions in the Church. Shows, 1 that particular Churches may err: as did 2 those of the Old Testament: and 3 of the New: for which 4 we find many reasons in the Scriptures. 5 The Roman Church is not excepted: but 6 warned thereof: and 7 it hath been corrupted, de facto. Yea 8 Rome is the mystical Babylon: and 9 the seat of Antichrist: and 10 tainted with foul impieties, as well foregoing as following Antichrist. Antiquus. BY your Imputation of errors and abuses, to the most Illustrious Church of Rome, Rom. 1. (so much glorified by S. Paul's writing unto it, so much honoured by the ancient Fathers, so renowned in all after ages,) you seem to hold that all the Churches in the world may err and be corrupt. Antiquissimus. We do not hold that the whole Church of God may err at any time in points fundamental, which constitute the essence of the Church, and are absolutely necessary to salvation. For then the Church should cease to be in the world. Antiquus. Good. Antiquissimus. See D. Field. Church. lib. 4. cap. 4, 5. But particular Churches may both err and fall away (as some of the Churches have done, which flourished in the Apostles times, and to which they wrote Epistles: the Hebrew Church, the Corinthian, Ephesian, etc.) Antiquus. You speak contrarieties, and absurdities, for the whole Church consists of particulars: and if all particulars may err and fall away; then the whole may. Antiquissimus. It is no more contrariety, or absurdity, then to say all particular men may be diseased and dye away; but whole mankind cannot dye away till the end of the world, although whole mankind consisteth of particulars For they may be diseased and dye by succession, See Bellar. De Pont. Rom. lib. 4. cap 4. initio. not all at once others by succession coming in their rooms: and so of Churches; No man saith, all particular Churches may fundamentally err and fail at once, (for then indeed, the whole Church should cease to be in the world) but every one in their several times may fail, when others may hold the truth. Rom. 11.17. & As some branches of the Olive tree may be cut off, while others grow, and while others be grafted in: and those that are grafted in, may (for want of goodness) be cut off also in their times, and the first or others grafted in. joh. 15. But the good husband of the Church will not suffer the whole Olive or Vine to be without fruitful branches, by cutting off all at once, but when he pruneth off some, will cherish and dress the rest. Rom. 11.25. Thus the blindness of the jews for a time, procured the fullness of the Gentiles: Verse 22. who may piecemeal be cut off, Verse 23. if they continue not in goodness: and the jews may be grafted in again. Antiquus. Similitudes may well illustrate, but cannot convince the judgement: you must bring demonstrations if you will have me yield. Exod 32. Num. 16. jud. 2.11, 19 &. 3, 7. & 4.1. & 6.1. & 8.33. & 10.6. etc. 1 Kings 11. & 12.28. &. 15.13. & 18.21. Gen. 35.2. Exod. 32.20. josua 24.15. 1 Sam. 7.4. 2 Kings 18.4. & 22.8. & 23. 2 Chro. 17.6. §. 2. Antiquissimus. I will by God's grace do it briefly. First, that gross errors and abuses may creep into God's true Church, is manifest, De facto, in the Church of the Old Testament. The Books of Moses, Judges, Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles, are full of the people's falling to Idolatry, and corrupting the Law of God. And there are many worthy reformations of those corruptions described, wrought by jacob, Moses, josua, Samuel Hezekiah, josia, jehosaphat, and others. And as these corruptions were frequent, so sometimes very general. While Jeroboam's people practised Idolatry in Israel, (1 King. 12.28. etc.) Rehoboam's people in the other Kingdom forsook the Law of the Lord, 2 Chron. 12.1. So that all the face of GOD'S Church (which was then only in those two Kingdoms) became mightily depraved and Idolatrous Aholah and Aholibah, that is, Samaria and Jerusalem, (Ezech. 23.1, 4.) did both falsify their faith to God, and played the harlots with strange gods, yet the whole Church failed not: For as in Eliahs' time, (when he thought himself alone, 1 Kings 19.10.) God had 7000 true servants in secret, (though their names be not recorded) ibid. vers. 18. So doubtless it was in other most depraved times. §. 3. Antiquus. Though this were so, See Field. Church. lib. 3. cap. 10. & lib. 4. cap. 4. yet the Churches of the New Testament, had Prophecies of greater purity, Psal. 45.13. and by our Saviour's power and care, may be kept without spot or wrinkle, Ephes. 5.26, 27. Antiquissimus. Such things are spoken of the best parts of the Church upon earth (washed by Christ's blood, and made beautiful by his righteousness, and by their own practice of holiness) but those are merely discernible by God's eye. But those places of Scripture, specially respect that part of the Church which is triumphant in Heaven, and there presented by our Saviour. Ephes. 5.27. But the general face of visible Churches upon earth have been ordinarily stained with spots and blemishes; the Church of Corinth, with sects and schisms, and other depravations, yea, with doubting, or denying that great Article of faith (the life of Christianity) the Resurrection of the dead. Galatia erred in the great point of justification, against which error, Saint Paul opposed his Epistle written to them. In the Church of Pergamus, some held the doctrine of Balaam, and of the Nicolaitans, teaching to eat things sacrificed to Idols, and to commit fornication, Reu. 2.14. The like was in the Church of Thyatira, Revel 2.20, etc. And if there were no possibility or likelihood of errors and heresies in the Churches of the New Testament: What needed those warnings and admonitions? Keep yourselves from Idols, 1 john 5.21. Beware of false prophets in sheep's clothing, Mat. 7.15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Charge men that they teach no other doctrine, 1 Tim. 1.3. Stop the mouths of the gainsayers that subvert whole houses, Tit. 1.11. And to what end were Visitations, Counsels, and all Offices and Government in the Church, but for maintaining of true doctrine, preventing and rooting out of errors and abuses? §. 4. Matth. 18.7. 1 Cor. 11.19. Remember, that our Saviour said, There must be offences in the world: and Saint Paul, There must be heresies. Yea, it is necessary that there be; both for the good of the faithful, the good of the faith, and the punishment of the faithless. To which ends God suffers these two causes to concur and work, to wit, the Devil's malice, and Man's corruption; because God can work good out of their evil. The Devil's malice and policy, never ceaseth still to pursue the seed of the Woman, and to bite the heel, seeking both by persecutions and heresies, to supplant God's Church, to plant and increase his own Kingdom. He attempted our head, Matth. 4.3. and so will do his members, Luke 22.31. 2 Cor. 12.7. Ephes. 6.11, 12. 1 Pet. 5.8. 2 Cor. 11.14. Man's corruption and blindness is also easy to be drawn by others, and easily drawn by his own affections out of the right way; as Micah (judges 17.) to worship God by a silver Image, thinking (blindly) that every work with a good intention, would please God, and draw blessings from him. Solomon by love to his wives was drawn to Idolatry. Our Eaveses are weak to be seduced, 1 Kings 11.4. strong to seduce us. jeroboam by ambitious policy, 1 Kings 12.26. Acts 19.24.28 set up Idolatry to keep his people at home. Demetrius and the Ephesians, for covetousness, magnified the Idol of Diana, and cried down the Gospel, Acts 19 Simon Magus through pride bewitched the people, Acts 8.9.10. that he might seem some great man, Simon Magus among them. These and such other affections and actions God permits to oppose, corrupt, or blind the truth. First, for the good o● the faithful, that their diligence in searching, their wisdom in discerning, their constancy in holding the truth, their love to win the adversaries, their patience to endure opposition, disgrace, persecution, yea, Death and Martyrdom for the truth, and their many other virtues, may shine to God's glory, others example, and their own crown, Reu. 3.11 Secondly, for the good of the faith, fides habendo tentationem, haberet etiam probationem, saith Tertullian, that our faith being sifted, winnowed, tried, examined, may be more approved, and appear more solid, sound, pure, like the gold that is purified in the fire. Thirdly, for the punishment of the fa●thles; Rom. 1.21.22.23. etc. 2 Thes. 2.11. for it is just with God, that such as hold the truth in unrighteousness, should be punished with loss of the truth, and left to their own errors and damnable corruptions, even to the efficacy of delusion, to believe lies. §. 5. Antiquus. Be it so, that all other Churches may err; yet the Roman Church, which the chief Apostles, Saint Peter and Saint Paul planted, and where Saint Peter (the Universal Pastor of the whole Church) lived and died, leaving his successors to govern the whole Church to the end of the world: hath this double privilege (above all other Churches) both to continue to the end, and to be free from error. Antiquissimus. A pretty imagination, but void of faith; For if the Church of Rome be not as subject to errors and depravations, yea, and to Apostasy, as other Churches: what needed that Admonition of Saint Paul to the Romans (Rom. 11.20) Be not highminded, but fear. For if God spared not the natural branches (the Hebrews) Take heed lest he also spare not thee. This was a Caveat for Gentiles, and consequently to the Romans (which were Gentiles among them.) The Romans are not excepted or privileged: Nay, they are principally intended; for to them that Epistle was written, (cap. 1. vers. 7. To all that be at Rome, Beloved of God, called to be Saints.) To them Saint Paul saith, Be not highminded, (affecting superiority over all God's Church, as if Rome were the root, and all other the branches) but fear (yea fear both error and apostasy. For you may fall from goodness, and be cut off) for verse 10. thou bearest not the root, but the root thee (be content to be a branch of the Olive tree, as other Churches are: they depend not on thee, no more than thou on them, but all of you alike upon the root. Thou art not the Mother, be content to be a Daughter, a Sister to the rest: Suppose, one of the eldest sisters living, yet the elder may be sick, and near to death, when the younger are more sound and perfect.) Mark the 22 verse; Behold the goodness and severity of God; on them which fell, severity; but towards thee, goodness; i● thou continue in his goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be also cut off. Note, if there were no possibility of the Roman Churches falling from the goodness, which then it had, this admonition directed to them, were idle; but upon supposition of such falling (as other Churches have done) he denounceth absolutely a cutting off. Antiquus. Such suppositions do enforce good Caveats and warnings to make that Church watchful: as by God's grace it hath been, so that no such errors and heresies have come into it. §. 6. Antiquissimus. Yes, even in S. Paul's time, Abuses began in the Roman Church, as well as in the Corinthian, Galatian. and others. Whereof S. Paul gives another Caveat, chap. 16. verse 17, 18. I beseech you Brethren, (saith he) Mark them which cause divisions and offences, contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them. For they which are such, serve not our Lord jesus Christ, but their own belly: and by good words and fair speeches, deceive the hearts of the simple. And verse 19 though he praise them, yet he addeth, But I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple or harmless concerning evil; and he prayeth God to establish them, verse 25. Antiquus. All this yet proves not, that ever any such errors prevailed in the Church of Rome, to the defacing or corrupting the soundness thereof. §. 7. Antiquissimus. But the Ancient Fathers, and the Histories of the Church do prove it: Hieronymus contra Luciferianos Basil. epist. 69. As namely in the Arrian heresy, whereby the Church of Rome (together with the rest of the world) was marvellously, both defaced, and corrupted, & that both in the members, and in the head. Whereof S. Jerom wrote, that the whole world groaned, and wondered that it was become Arrian: And S. Basil, that men abandoned the houses of Prayer (which then were made schools of Impiety) and were fain to pray to the Lord in Deserts. And S. Hilary admonished in many words, that the Church at that time, was not to be sought (In tectis & exteriori pompa, sed potius in carceribus & speluncis,) in Houses or Temples, and outward pomp but rather in Prisons and Caves. Bellar De Pont. Rom. lib. 4. c●p. 9 initio. Bellarm. in that Book reckons 40. Popes, accused of errors and heresies: whom he labours to excuse, but confesseth most of them guilty in one degree or other. And when Liberius, Bishop of Rome, himself was drawn to subscribe to the Arrian heresy, yielded to the condemnation of Athanasius, and communicated with Valens and Vrsarius, whom he knew to be Heretics: As Bellarmine confesseth. Antiquus. This was a heavy time, and a heavy thing it is to hear it; yet in good time the Church of Rome recovered. §. 8. Antiquissimus. But the Scripture mentioneth another defection of Rome, which will never be recovered. For your Roman Doctors cannot avoid it, but Babylon in the 17 and 18 of the Revelation, signifieth Rome, chap. 17.9. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sitteth: and verse 18. The woman which thou sawest, is the great City which reigneth over the Kings of the earth. These two properties of the City, situate upon seven hills, and also reigning over the Kings of the earth, do manifestly describe the City of Rome and none other, as it was in S. John's time, when the Revelation was given Your own jesuite Ribera, Doctor of Divinity, and Professor in the University of Salmantica, in his Commentaries upon the Apocalyps', chap. 14. verse 8 Num. 25. & sequentib. shows plainly, that Babylon can signify nothing else but the City of Rome: he cities many testimonies of the Fathers for it. He cities also Sixtus Senensis, and Bellarmine to be of the same opinion, and many other late Writers: and concludes with these words [ alios hujus aetatis scriptores omittam: hoc dicam, Ambrose, qui prius negaverat, tandem, in cap. 17. veritate convictus Babylonem Romam significare confessus est. Huic conveniunt aptissime omnia, quae de Babylone dicuntur in hoc libro (Apocalypscos)] and this he shows at large in many particulars. The like hath Viegas, another jesuite, Viega in Apoc. 17. come. 1. sect. 4. pag. 772. Rhemist. annot. on Apoc. 17.9. scoff at us. so Bellar. de Rom. Pont. lib. 3. cap. 2. & Parsons 3. conversions part. 2. cap. 5. v. Bishop. Reformed. Cath. Doctor also of Divinity, and Reader in two Universities of Portugal, Conimbrica and Ebora. And your Rhemish (though they scoff at the Protestants, for interpreting Babylon to be Rome, in Reuel. 17.5. yet presently after, they are forced themselves too) confess that Babylon signifies the City of Rome: but they shift all from the Pope, to the persecuting Emperors, and apply the prophetical discourse to the times of S. john the Writer, principally, as a type of the place (wheresoever it be) where Antichrist shall sit towards the end of the world. But Ribera and Viegas, prove plainly, that S. John's description agreeth to Rome, towards the end of the world, when Rome shall be the feat of Antichrist, and shall be finally, fully, and irrecoverably destroyed, according to the plain words of Reuel. 18. verse 2, 8, 21, etc. Ribera (pag. 454.) saith, [Roma, nisi pristinam illam impietatem (of Idolatry and persecutions under the Emperors) novis sceleribus, & immanibus peccatis aequatura esset, maneret usque ad finem seculi extremum. Etenim non propter priora tantum peccata came conflagraturam esse magno incendio, ut ante diximus, sed etiam propter illa, quae extremis illis temporibus commissura est, ex huius Apocalypsis verbis adeo perspicuè cognoscimus, ut ne stultissimus-quidem negare possit.] Rome (saith Ribera) should doubtless continue to the end of the world, if it did not match the old Impiety (of the Emperors) with new impieties and grievous sins. For we plainly learn, that it shall be destroyed with that great consuming fire, not for the former sins only (as we said before) but for those sins which it shall commit in the last times: yea, we learn it so plainly out of the words of this Revelation, that surely the veriest fool cannot deny it. §. 9 Antiquus. Indeed these learned Roman Doctors are plain and powerful, in proving this Mystical Babylon, described in the Revelation, can signify no place but Rome, and that it must be the seat of Antichrist towards the later end of the world. But the same Doctors say also, that Antichrist and the Pope are two divers things; yea, contrary one to the other: as also, that the Church of Rome and City of Rome are divers things: and further, that Antichrist is not yet come, neither shall he come until three years and a half before the last day: Reuel. 11.3. & 12.6, 14. & 13.5. as they gather out of the prophecy of Daniel, and the Revelation, by the 1260 days, which make 42 months, and a time, times, and half a time. Hieronym. in Daniel. 9 Antiquissimus. S. jerom understood those prophecies of the destruction of jerusalem, to which they marvellously agree: and, to the reign of Antichrist, it is very unlikely they should agree. * See B. Downam de Antichristo. part. 2. ad Demonstrat. 13 §. 5. etc. & K. james his Praemonition. pag. 60. & seqq. But your men have reason to keep off this deadly blow from themselves and their head. Note their shifts; first, they would by no means suffer Babylon to signify Rome: but the text is so punctual and plain, pointing out a City, a City built on seven hills, a City that bare rule over the Kings of the earth; that at last they grant, it can be no other but Rome. But (see a second shift) not Christian Rome, but Heathen Rome, unto the persecuting Emperors, long since gone. Now when they are driven from this also, because the Text descrbes Rome as it must be ne'er the end of the world; (note their third shift.) It must be Rome only, three years and an half before the last day. §. 10. Well, howsoever, yet you see it granted by you own men, Rome must be the seat of Antichrist. Who, if he be not come already, (from which Controversy, I will now spare you) yet you cannot imagine but there must be preparations for his coming and entertainment. I will not say with your own S. Gregory; Greg. lib. 4. epist. 38. Rex superbiae prope est, & (quod dici nefas est) Sacerdotum ei est praeparatus exercitus: The King of pride is at hand, and an army of Priests is prepared for him. Be it what it will, there must be corruption both of life and doctrine, to make way for his entertainment, as your Ribera said before, there must be new impieties and grievous sins of Rome, matching the old of the Emperors, that must forerun the plagues of Antichrist, and Rome's destruction. Take heed they have not fare proceeded already. I have demonstrated unto you already; first, that any particular Church may in time gather corruption, err, yea and fall away: Secondly, that the Church of Rome is not excepted, nor privileged from that calamity: but contrarily, thirdly, that many threatenings, warn and prophecies thereof are found in the Scriptures: and fourthly, further, that Rome must be the seat of Antichrist; and fifthly, that towards the end of the world (which cannot be fare off;) and last, that there must be many corruptions and impieties that shall deserve and make preparation for his coming. All which ought to abate your high conceit of the present Church of Rome; and work in you a more reverend esteem of our Church, which hath reform the abuses which we found in the Church of Rome. CHAP. 3. Of the time when corruptions came into the Roman Church. 1 A designation of the time when the corruptions first came into the Church, required. 2 often, and often aswered. 3 many crept in secretly and insensibly: 4 as themselves acknowledge, 5 best known by their difference from their first pure doctrine. 6. The Romans cannot find the beginnings of our doctrines on this side the Scriptures: 7 We can, and do, many of theirs. 8 No Church in the world held the now Romish doctrines, but only the Romish Church itself in these later times. §. 1. Antiquus. SInce you impute so many errors and abuses to the Church of Rome, which you pretend to have reform: Tell me when those corruptions came into that Church, which (you confess) was once, and a long time the true, sincere, and famous Church of God. For no such foul matters, so gross and intolerable can enter into such a famous Church, without being noted in Histories, Bellar. de notis ecclesiae lib. 4. cap. 5. and opposed by godly learned men. Show me therefore when these corruptions came in and changed the Roman faith, in what Age, under what Pope, by what men and means, and with what reluctation, or opposition of the godly learned. For if no such time can be showed, I shall never believe there were any such thing. §. 2. Antiquissimus. This is another point of your ench ntment indeed. Your Masters politicly, stand upon generals to discredit our reformation, which in particulars they cannot disprove. Among which generals, this is (as it seems) their great Goliath, brought into the field so oft, to terrify all our troops at once. To omit your foreign jesuites, a Bellar. De Euchar. lib. 3. cap. 8 Bellarmine, b Costerus epist. ad. Apolog. Costerus, c Greg. de Valent. lib. 6. cap. 12. Gregorius de Valentia, etc. your English are enough. The Author of, The brief discourse of Faith, (which is answered by D. john White, and Mr. Anthony Wootton) bringeth it in, in his 50 Section, as d Camp. ratione 7. Campian (their great Champion) had done before him: which being foiled by our men in their answers, yet is brought in again by A. D. his Reply, in his 57 Chapter, and foiled again by D. White: Defence pag. 519, etc. Lately brought in again by a jesuite in Ireland, in his Challenge, and overthrown by D. Usher, B. of Meath, in the beginning of his Answer. D. Kellison Survey lib. 2. c. p. 163. 1. And still is brought in again and again, without measure or end, as if it had never been answered before. And most lately by M. Fisher the jesuite, at least four several times in his little book written to our late Gracious King James, of famous memory: which B. Francis White, hath fully answered in every of the places e D. White. pag. 116. & 131 & 143. & 255, etc. . Out of all whose answers and Doctor Favours Book, entitled, Antiquity triumphing over Novelty f D. Favour. pag. cap. 17. ; and many others; I will give you some short satisfaction, wishing you at your leisure to read the Authors themselves at large. §. 3. Your argument presupposeth that errors and abuses, came into the Church full, strong, and at once: See also D. Field. Church. lib. 3. cap. & B. Morton Appeal. lib. 4. cap. 16. So that their very entrance must needs be apparent, visible, observable, and therefore strongly opposed by learned and good men, and described in Histories: whereas indeed the most of them crept in secretly, & insensibly, and were not observed of a long time. Saint Paul calleth the great desertion and Apostasy, The Mystery of Iniquity g 2 Thes. 2.7. : Which the ordinary gloss thereupon, saith, is Iniquitas, Sed mystica, id est, pietatis nomine palliata; an iniquity indeed, but mystical, that is, cloaked under the name of piety. A mystery worketh not openly, but secretly: not at once, but by little and little, and then getteth greatest advantage, when it is least observed and suspected. It is first a Mystery, and creepeth in secretly, before it be a History, observed and described. In commonwealths it is ordinary for things of obscure and unsensible beginnings, to work sensible and notorious changes in the end, so that the wisest shall not so easily find out the first entrance, as the simplest may see and feel the gross and dangerous events in the end. As Plutarch observeth in the life of Caesar: and in the life of Coriolanus, he tells how the corruption of the people by bribes and banqueting, entered into the old Roman Commonwealth. This Pestilence (saith he) crept in by little and little, and did secretly win ground, still continuing a long time in Rome, before it was openly discovered, For no man can tell who was the first that bought men's voices with money, nor that corrupted the sentence of the judges: but he knoweth that this took away all authority (and destroyed the Commonwealth.) So it is also with diseases in man's body: they come not to the height and extremity at first, and at once: but ill humours and matter of diseases, breed secretly, and insensibly, and afterwards by degrees, become more full and strong, and seldom are well discerned, till they manifestly impair the health and actions of the body. Now when a disease is grown apparently dangerous and deadly, shall neither the Physician nor the grieved Patient believe that there is any disease at all, because they know certainly there was once health, and they cannot set down the time when the humours began first to corrupt, nor by what accesses and increasings it proceeded to that desperate danger? 2 Kings 5. So Naaman, because he was once clean and could not tell the very time, means, and degrees of the coming of his leprosy, might be proved to be clean still, and needed neither the Prophet nor the washing. Our Saviour showeth, Matth. 13. that in the field where good seed was sown, the enemy secretly sowed tares: but they were not discerned to be tares, till they were grown up to some height; and peradventure favoured, watered, and defended by the Husbandmen, and thought to be good Corn for a time, till they shown themselves more fully. Shall we be so idle to say, they were not tares, because we know good wheat was sown there, but when any tares were sown we know not? The Master of the field acknowledgeth them by their present view to be tares, and saith that the enemy had sown them secretly: but your argument would persuade the contrary. You Protestants grant (say your Doctors) that the seed first sown in this field (in the Church of Rome) was good, and there sown by the Master himself: now, if these which you call tares, be no good Grain, but weeds sprung up from some other seed, tell us the man's name that sowed it, and the time when it was sown. If you be not able to show this, surely your eyes deceive you; either they are not tares (as you call them) or they are not of any enemies, but of your own Masters sowing. §. 4. Antiquus. Your similitudes are apt and persuasive, but no similitude is demonstrative. Can ye show me some examples of things in this kind, confessed to be changed, the beginnings of whose examples, were not perceived, or observed, or opposed? Antiquissimus. I can, and will; and you may read them more at large, in D Ushers answer to the jesuite in Jreland. Your own Catholics confess that the Primitive Church, See also D. Field. Church lib. 3. cap. 14. who reckoneth many more. for many years delivered the holy Eucharist to the people in both kinds, according to Christ's Ordinance, and the Apostles practise: that custom is now quite changed, and the cup disused and forbidden to the people. This change they grant, but when, and how it began, and under what Pope, they know not. a Valent. de l●git. usu. Euchar. cap. 10 See more in B. Morton. Appeal. lib. 4. cap. 6. Gregory of Valentia (your great learned jesuite) saith: It began first in some particular Churches, and in time grew to be a general custom in the Latin Church, not much before the Counsel of Constance, in which, at last (to wit, about two hundred years agone) this custom was made a Law. But of the time when it first began to get footing in some Churches, he saith, Minime constat; It is not known. D. Fisher b Rossensis. assert. lutheran. confut. art. 18. B. of Rochester, and Cardinal Caietan, c Caietan. opusc. tomo 1. tract. 15 de indulgent. cap. 1. grant, that of Indulgences no certainty can be had, what their original was, or by whom they were first brought in. But of the great increase and bringing infinite wealth out of all Nations to the Pope, and the abusing of simple souls thereby, we have knowledge more then enough. D. Fisher addeth (ibid.) that of Purgatory, in the ancient Fathers there is no mention at all, or very rare: that the Latins did not all at once, but by little and little receive it: that the Grecians believe it not to this day: and that Purgatory being so long unknown, it is not to be marvelled that in the first times of the Church there was no use of Indulgences, for they had their beginning after that men had a while been scared with the torments of Purgatory. The original of their private Masses (wherein the Priest receiveth the Sacrament alone, and none of the people communicate with him, but all are lookers on) D Harding, d Hard. answer to the first article of jewels challenge fol. 26. v. Antwerp. ●dit. anno 1565. fetcheth from no other ground, then lack of devotion on the people's part. Tell us in what Popes days the people fell from, their devotion and then we may hap tell you in what Pope's days your private Mass began. You see then (1) what little reason your men have to require of us the precise time of the beginning of such changes, seeing themselves grant, that in many things themselves cannot do it. (2) That some of them may come in pedetentim (as B. Fisher saith of Purgatory) by little and little, and by very slow steps, not so cast to be discerned, as you would make simmple men believe: (3) Thar it is an idle imagination to think that all such changes must be made by some Bishop, or any one certain Author: whereas it is confessed, that some may come in by the silent consent of many, and grow after into a general custom, the beginning whereof is past man's memory: (as the abstaining from the Cup) and some may arise of the ●ndiscreet devotion of the multitude (as those of Purgatory and Indulgences) and some from the want of devotion in the people (as the private Masses) and some also must be attributed to the very change of time itself: as public prayers in an unknown tongue in Italy, France, and Spain: for there a long time the Latin was commonly understood of all: but when afterwards their speeches degenerated into those vulgar tongues that are now used there, than the language, not of the service, but of the people, was altered. So that (saith Erasmus e Eras. in declarationib. ad censuras Parisiens. tit. 12. sect. 41. ) the vulgar tongue was not taken from the people; but the people departed from it. Now then, show you under what Pope their language degenerated, and we will show you when public prayers there began, in tongue not understood. §. 5. I may well then conclude, (with that learned D. Usher,) that if we can show the present Doctrines of Rome, (refused by us) disagree from the Primit we, it is enough to show there hath been a change & degeneration, though we cannot point out the time, when every point began to be changed Tertullian f Tertul. praeser. adversus Haeret. cap. 32 saith sufficiently; The very doctrine itself being compared with the Apostolic, by the diversity and contrariety thereof, will pronounce that it had for Author, neither any Apostle, nor any Apostolical man. If g Mat. 19.8. from the beginning it was not so, and now it is so there is a change. h 1 Cor. 11.28 All drink of that Cup, now all must not: all than prayed in known tongues with understanding, and all public service done to edification, i 1 Cor. 14. See B. White against Fisher pag. 128. this is altered, though when the alteration began, we neither know, nor need take pains to search. §. 6. The Romanists say, Our Doctrine is new: can they show it to be later than the Apostles times? we hold the Hebrew Canon of the Old Testament, that is, so many books Canonical, as the Hebrews, and with them the Fathers accounted Canonical, and no more: If this be an error, let them show who began it, and when: as we can show when and by what means many Apocryphal writings were added to the Canon. We hold the Hebrew of the old, the Greek of the New Testament to be most Authentical, and all translations to be corrected by them. Who began this heresy, and when? they prefer the vulgar Latin before them, contrary to equity and antiquity. We commend the holy Scriptures to all God's people, of all Nations, in all languages: we hold that God forbiddeth the worshipping of Images: That a man is justified by faith without the works of the Law; and yet that good works are necessary fruits of faith, without which, faith is dead: we administer the whole Communion in both kinds, to all God's people: let them show the time when these heresies or abuses began: or else either cease to call us heretics for them, or grant that heresies may creep in, they know not when nor how. §. 7. All this, notwithstanding, D. Favour. Antiquity, triumphing over novelty. cap. 17 pag. 433. we are able to show by approved Histories, the age and time, when many of the foulest corruptions became notorious in the Church and how they were opposed. Doctor Favour showeth some; as the Supremacy of the Pope; Transubstantiation; The Worshipping of Angels, (an old heresy, a new piety,) The substance and parts of the Mass; The Divine worship of the Virgin Mary, above a creature; The worship of the Cross; Single life of the Clergy; Abstinence from certain meats, and on certain days; Seven Sacraments; Images and their worship; Indulgences or Pardons Communicating without the Cup; Auricular Confession, and diverse other things. Bishop Usher answering the Irish jesuites Challenge, showeth the same very fully in many points. So do most of our other learned Authors; and most plentifully in a continued historical Narration, that learned French Noble man, Philip Morney, Morney. Mysterium Iniquitat. Praefat. Lord of Plessis, in his Mysterium Iniquitatis. But of particular points. I shall speak more fitly in their proper place, if you desire it. §. 8. And now for a conclusion of this point, and for full answer to your challenge of antiquity; I demand where was there any Church in the world, for 600. years after Christ, which worshipped Images as the Roman Church doth now? where was any Church for a thousand years, that called the little hone their Lord, thought it to be God, and adored it as God? or for 12 hundred years, that kept their God in a box, and carried it about in procession to be worshipped, and appointed peculiar office or service unto it? and without receiving it, offered it up before the people, as a propitiatory sacrifice for the quick and the dead? or that bereft the people of the Cup in the holy Communion, and made it heresy to teach otherwise? or that received Transubstantiation for an Article of faith? or that accused the Scriptures of Insufficiency and ambiguity, and held the reading thereof dangerous to the faithful, forbidding it by public decree, under great punishment. Where was there any Church for 600 years, that believed the Pope of Rome to be the universal Bishop, and that all power of Orders and jurisdiction for all Churches in the world is to be derived and received from him? where for a thousand years any Church acknowledged the Pope to be an earthly Prince, or above all Christian Princes, girt with both swords? and had power to unbind subjects from their oaths of Allegiance to their Princes, to depose Princes, and place others in their rooms? or in 12 hundred years, that held the Pope to be above the universal Church, and above the general Counsels, and that he only had authority to call Counsels, to ratify, of nullify whatsoever pleased him in them? or that he could dispose of the state of souls, by the manner or measure of his Indulgences or Pardons, shutting Purgatory, and opening Heaven to those he liked, or would pay for it: making Saints whom he pleased, to be prayed unto and worshipped, and whom he pleased, sending down to Hell or Purgatory? Concil. Trident. Sess. or that he could dispense with the Laws of God, binding where God had loosed, or losing where God had bound, as in Matrimonial causes and degrees, in diverse kinds of oaths and such like. Or where was any face of a Church until within these few years so glorious with a Princely Senate of Cardinals, equals, if not superiors to Kings, making an earthly Kingdom of the Church, with the transcendent greatness of the triple crowned Pope? Friars began, Anno 1220. jesuites 1530. those swarms of late Friars, and later jesuites, and Seminary Priests? which some make to be the Locusts, (Reuel. 9, 3,) darkening the Sun and the air. Luther in conference with Vergerius the Pope's Nuncio among other things, told him plainly; None could call his Doctrine new, Hist. council. Trent. lib. 1. pag. 76. but he that believed that Christ, the Apostles, and the holy Fathers lived as now the Pope, Cardinals, and Bishops do. To conclude: In these and such like th●ngs, the Church of Rome hath no antiquity neither succeeds the Apostles and the Primitive Church, otherwise then darkness suceeeds the light, sickness succeeds health, and as Antichrist must succeed Christ in the Temple of God, and may sit in Christ's (or S. Peter) seat, as God, or above God. Antiquus. It is easier to show dislike then disproof of these things. But when you say, The most of the corruptions (as you call them) crept in secretly and insensibly, you seem to grant that some of them came in openly and were observed. Antiquissimus. Yea, and strongly opposed too, as our learned Authors do plentifully show: and I shall (by God's blessing) show afterwards, when we come to the particulars; but for the present, let this general answer satisfy your general doubt. Antiquus. Satisfy me in another general question also. If there were such corruptions in the Roman Church as you pretend: how chance they were suffered to continue and grow, and never spoken or written against nor reformation sought for till Luther's time? but that glorious Church enjoyed perpetual unity, peace, and quietness, till he disturbed it? yea, and all Historians, Fathers, Counsels, learned men, and Princes ceased nor continually to praise and glorify the unity sanctity, and excellency of that Church, as Mr. Campian allegeth in most of his reasons. Antiquissimus. See B. White against Fisher, pag 107, 108, 109. You are very much deceived (with your vainly boasting Champion) there was in every Age much speaking and writing against the abuses of that Church; both by the whole Eastern or Greek Church, which long agone forsook the unity of the Roman Church, being neither able to reform the corruptions thereof, nor to endure them: and by many Fathers of the Western Church that did oppose them: and Historians that detected and detested them: and many thousands in these Western parts, that would not live under the obedience of the Pope and his Clergy, nor admit their Doctrines: Besides, many other learned men also living in the Community of the Church of Rome, which yet wrote against many abuses thereof, wishing and desiring reformation. Antiquus. If this be so, I have been wonderfully abused, being made believe the just contrary. Antiquissimus. Then I perceive it is necessary to handle this point thoroughly: both to satisfy you with sufficiency, and to cloy them with superfluity, who told you that nothing could be brought against them. CHAP. 4. Corruptions in the Church of Rome, seen, written against, and reformation wished for them. An historical Narration, 1 of the first age of the Church golden: but 2 afterwards peeped up some seeds of corruption, misliked of many in the East, South, and West Churches. 3 A foul matter of three Popes alleging a counterfeit Canon of Nice for their jurisdiction, which the whole Church of Africa withstood. 4 Gregory the Great wrote sharply against the Titles which now the Pope's use. 5 B.B. of the East, France, Germany, and Britain, opposed the Pope about Images; Counsels against Counsels. 6 Many thought Antichrist now borne. Constantine's Donation, and the decretal Epistles now first seen. 7 A deluge of wickedness in the ninth and tenth Ages, as Bellarmine, Baronius, Genebrard, etc. record. 8 After a thousand years, greater inundations of evils. Silvester 2. Benedict 9 a child of ten years old, than Cardinals arose. 9 The Sultan subdueth many Christian Countries in the East: the Clergy most wicked in the West. Letters from Hell to them. Anti-popes' and Anti-caesars', Rebellion made piety. Hildibrands Dictates, foundations of a new earthly Church, Kingdom. 10 The Testimony of Onuphrius, that Gregory 7 was the first raiser of the Pope's Princedom. Many Historians speak of his devilishness. 11 Campians Historians rejected by his own fellows. 12 Grave Divines against Romish corruptions: Bernard, Sarisburiensis, Grosthead, Occam, Cesenas, Clemangis, Gerson, Caremacensis, Valla, &c 13 These and many others, wrote against the corruptions of Doctrine. Schoolman's philosophical Divinity. Doctrine framed to maintain wealth and greatness. 14 Particular Doctrines wherein learned men differed from the Pope's faction. 15 Oxford alone afforded many learned men opposing Romish corruptions. 16 Reformation was sought for, and promised by the Pope; but could not be obtained. §. 1. TO show how corruptions crept into the Church of Rome, were seen and written against, as they were discovered from time to time: I must become altogether historical, and not Write mine own words, but other men's, and as the times be many, and matters various, so will my Narration be long, although I will endeavour all possible brevity, that may not hinder perspicuity. And first I will g●ue you (as it were) a Table, of what our learned and laborious Bishop Usher hath written (compendiously also) out of many brave Authors, to this point: but in this Table I will insert other brief memorial remarkable out of other Authors. Perer in Apoc. c. 6. disp. 6. See B. Usher de ecclesiarum successione & statu. cap. 1. v. Casabon Proleg. Heg●sippus apud Euseb. lib. 3. hist. cap. 32. vel, in alijs editionibus cap. 29. & Niceph. lib. 3. cap. 16. Lactant. lib. 5. institutionum cap. 2. Euseb. hist. lib. 8. cap. 1. Hieronym. in vita Malchi. Cyril Hierosol. cateches. 15. Man tuan in vita Blasij. lib. 2. The first hundred years of the Church was a golden Age (saith your Pererius) but when the Apostles, and they that heard them were gone, errors and abuses began to take root, through Heretics, Philosophers, and Divines given over to too much daintiness and ambition, and degenerating by the corruptions which peace and plenty bred amongst them: as Hegesippus relateth: and as Lactantius, Eusebius, S. Jerom, Cyrill, and your Mantuan complain. So that Gregorius Magnus (about 600 years after Christ) compared the Church to a decayed and putrifying ship; and A gebardus, Bishop of Lions, after him, saith, If the ship of the Church waxed rotten then, alas, alas, what doth it now? §. 2. It is recorded, that even some good Bishops of Rome, Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 23. Socrat. lib. 5. cap. 21. holy men and Martyrs, living in the second hundred years after our Saviour, out of a desire to advance their Sea, went somewhat too fare to impose ceremonies upon other Churches: as Anicetus, for the celebration of Easter, who yet was quickly quieted by the good counsel of Polycarp, who made a journey to Rome to that end, and was greatly honoured by Anicetus. Euseb. ibid. B. Morton Appeal. lib. 4. c. 7. Not long after, Victor grew somewhat too violent about the same matter, and excommunicated the Eastern Churches for their difference from the Western in the celebration of Easter, but he was sharply reproved by Polycrates, See B. Carlton jurisdiction. cap. 4. §. 19, 20, 21. etc. Bishop of Ephesus, and the other Bishops of the East, and also by Jrenaeus, Bishop of Lions in France, and the other Bishops there; whereby it may appear that the B. of Rome began even then to usurp or challenge a jurisdiction which neither the Bishops of the East or West did acknowledge. They all honoured the Bishops of Rome, as Bishops of the chief City, the seat of the Empire, and for their holiness and virtue; and gave them great and honourable Titles; but yet not greater than we gave to holy Bishops. Saint Basil writes to S. Ambrose, saying, Basil. epist. 55. that he holds the stern of that great and famous Ship, the Church of God, and that God had placed him in the primary and chief seat of the Apostles. Inter epistola Cypriani. See more in B. Ca●lton. ibid. §. 22. Cyprian. lib. 1. epist. 3. pag. 12. & pag. 22. in alijs editionibus epist. 55. See Cyprians epistles. Bellar. de Pont. Rom. lib. 4. cap. 7. S. jerom writing to S. Augustine in some Epistles, styles him Papa, (a Title now appropriate to the Bishop of Rome) and and the Bishop of Rome, often entitles Cyprian Papa, in Epistles sent to him. This holy Martyr Cyprian, wrote sharply to Cornelius Bishop of Rome, against his unjust intermeddling with delinquents of Africa, which being censured, or excommunicated by their own Bishops, fled to Rome to procure favour and protection. Cyprian saith, That a part of the Flock is appointed to each Pastor, which each in several must rule and guide, etc. Yea, Cyprian, and with him the whole Nation of Africa, refused and resisted the Pope's judgement and government for this point. And Cyprian proceeded to write very contumeliously of him (as Bellarmine granteth) calling the Pope superbum imperitum, caecae ac pravae mentis; Proud, misjudging, of a blind and corrupt mind. And not only the holy Martyr Cyprian, with his African Bishops, but Saint Basil the Great, Basil. epist. 10. Baronius anno 372. § 32. Usher. ib. cap. 1. pag. 23. found great fault with these beginnings of corruptions, getting foothold in the Latin Church. He called it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Occidentale supercilium, The Western pride: and saith elsewhere, Odi fastum illius ecclesiae. I hate the pride and presumption of that Church. D Field. church. lib. 5. pag. 240. cap 39 Gerson. part. 4. serm. de pace & unitate Graecorum consid. 6. And indeed this beginning of corruptions grew so great in the end, that it occasioned the lamentable separation of the Eastern or Greek Church, from the communion with the Latin Church: The other 4 Patriarches, dividing themselves from the B. of Rome, and at their parting using these or the like words: See B. Carlton. jurisd. cap. 5. Thy greatness we know thy covetousness we cannot satisfy, thy encroaching we can no longer abide: live to thyself. §. 3. Concil. Carthag. 6 cap. 3. See this whole story fully discussed, and all shifts answered in B. Mortons' Appeal. l b. 4 cap. 8. per totum. For these seeds grew from time to time, In the time of Pope Zozimus, (who sat at Rome 417.) began a foul matter; he received Plaintiffs out of Africa. and alleged for his warrant, a Canon of the Council of Nice. But the Bishops of Africa. gathered together in a Council at Carthage, could not find that Canon in their copies ot the N●cene Council, nor ever heard of it before, though some of them were of the best learned Divines than living in the world: so that they were much troubled and offended at it, and took notice of the Roman-growing ambition. They writ therefore to Zozimus, denying for the present, both the Canon and the Pope's request, until they had searched further. And their letter was delivered to Boniface, Concil. African. Cap. ●01. successor to Zozimus (who died in the interim) and is extant in the Tomes of the Counsels. Mean season, the Fathers of the Council of Carthage procured two authentic copies of the Nicene Canons, one from Cyrillus, Bishop of Auxandria, the other from Atticus, Bishop of Constantinople: wherein no such thing was found as Zozimus had alleged. So that when Boniface urged this matter again, they sent their Decree, That the true Canons of the Nicene Counsels should be observed, but this Canon they rejected, as forged, and supposititions. But Boniface was also dead before their Letters came to Rome, and Celestinus his successor received them. This Celestine urged the Canon again, sending Commissioners into Africa to maintain the cause; But the African Bishops would not yield, Concil. African. cap. 105. but wrote their absolute denial (after much debating) both of the Canon as forged and of the Pope's request as unfit and unusual; admonishing him, Ne fumosum typhum saeculi in ecclesiam Christi induceret, etc. That he and his successors would not bring into the Church the smoky pride of the world, etc. And they made a Decree that no appeals should be made to Rome, or to any other place from Africa. The like Decree had been made in S. Cyprians time, Concil. Afric. cap. 92. Cyprian. ep. 55. by all the Bishops of Africa, that where any fault was committed, there the cause should be heard to prevent appeals to other places, or claims of other Bishops. And this Canon of the African Council, Council Milevitan cap. 22. was also repeated and confirmed in the Milevitan Council, where S. Augustine was present. For the sixth Carthaginian, the seventh Carthaginian, the African, and Milevitan Counsels were held all about this time by the same men. And in all this business S. Augustine had an especial hand. So that here we have S. Cyprian, S. Augustine, and all the Bishops and Church of Africa, misliking, resisting, and making Decrees or Canons against the corruptions and usurpations growing in the Church of Rome. Yea, Hardings answer to Jewels challenge. pag. 290. and if we may believe Mr. Harding and his Authors; These Saints, Martyrs, and Bishops withstood, stood out, and lived and died out of the Communion of the Church of Rome, an hundred years together, rather than they would admit the corruptions and usurpations of that Church; although these corruptions were then but in the beginning, and fare from the height which now they are come unto. §. 4. And indeed, before they came to that height, their own Bishop, Gregory the first, cried out of that ambition in the Bishop of Constantinople, which the Bishops of Rome shortly after assumed. For john, Bishop of Constantinople, with new pride and presumption striven to be called, The chief universal Bishop, or Occumeniall Patriarch, which Gregory a Greg. Regist. lib. 4. ep. 32. novum nomen, sceleflum, nomen singularitatis. condemned as a new and wicked name, a name of singularity, which none of the Bishops of Rom● had ever assumed; and whosoever had it, b Epist. 34. was the forerunner of Antichrist, c ep. 38, 39 & 34. the Universal plague of the Church, and corrupter of the faith, with many other like terms. d Lib. 7. ep. 30. & 69. etc. The same Gregory complained grievously of those times: and e Lib. 8. ep. 36. prophesied, that they that came after should see worse times, in comparison whereof they would think the former times happy. And in one place he said, f Lib. 4. ep. 38. All things that are foretold shall come to pass: The King of pride is at hand, and (which is most grievous) an host of Priests is prepared for him. This prophecy of Gregory living 600 years after Christ, was in short time after fulfilled in his successors. g Paulus Diaconus in Phoca. Hic (Phocas) rogante Papa Bonifacio, statuit sedem Romanae ecclesiae, ut esset caput omnium ecclesiarum. For Boniface the third obtained of Phocas the Emperor, that the seat of the Roman Church should be head of all Churches; and the Bishop thereof called h Baronius anno 106. n. 2. Solum Romanum Pontificem esse dicendum universale, non autem Episcopum Constantinopolitanum. See also B●bliothecarius in Boniface 3. Platina in Boniface 3 and Sabellicus 8.6. against all whom Bellarmine strives in vain. In Apologia pro Torto. See B. Andrew's. Ad M. Torti librum Responsio pag. 329. & seq. and Ad Cardinalis Bellarmini Apologium Responsio pag. 277. & seq. and B. Morton Appeal. lib. 4. cap. 11. Universal Bishop, and not the Bishop of Constantinople: which title in aftertimes gave a good colour to the Bishops of Rome, for their claimed-dominion over all Christian Churches. Usher. c. 1. §. 18. So that within the first six hundred years, doubtless the seeds of much evil were sown, and Antichrist conceived, though not yet borne; for in all those six hundred years, no man could truly be called Papist, either for holding this usurpation, or any other of those 27 Articles which Bishop Jewel learnedly defends against Mr. Harding. §. 5. Usher. ib cap. 2. § 4 etc. In the succeeding times The Bishops of France, Germany, and Britain, opposed the Bishop of Rome in the matter of Images, as the African Bishops before had done in the matter of Apeales. For in anno 754; A Synod of 338 Bishops at Constantinople, had abrogated all Images, saving that one Image of Bread and Wine, which our Saviour ordained in the B. Sacrament, to represent his Body and Blood. But the Pope, in the year 587, As our English Histories report. by another Synod (called the second Council of Nice) established the worshipping of Images. Which Council, and Image-worship, our English Church execrated, and our Alcuinus wrote a Book against it, which he carried in the name of our Bishops and Princes to the K. of France. The same second Council of Nice was condemned also by the Bishops of Germany and France, in a Council held at Frankfort upon Mene, in the year 794. As also by Charles the Great, and Lodovicus Pius his son. And in this Lodovicus his time was another Synod held at Paris, anno 821. which condemned the same second of Nice, with the Image worship, and argued the Pope of error therein. Now to say, these Counsels that were against the Pope's judgement, were condemned by the Pope, is to no purpose: for thus it appeareth still, that the Princes and Bishops of Britain, France and Germany, rejected at once, both the worship of Images, and the determinations of a corrupt Council, and also the Pope's infallibility of judgement, and his authority over them; as the Eastern, and the Southern African Bishops had done before. Baronius further addeth, Baronius anno 794. nu. 36.39. & seq. that many learned and famous men living then in the world, and in the Ages following, greatly grudged at, and sharply wrote against that second Council of Nice, and the Image-worship by it and by the Popes, confirmed: many of whose names he recites and cities their words. §. 6. In these times many Authors write, that the world's opinion was, that Antichrist was borne: yet that he was yet but an Infant, not able to subdue the Nations until a thousand years after Christ's planting the Church; for till that time Satan was not let lose, Revel, 20.7, Esay 1.21. Reuel. 17.2 & 18.23. 8. The faithful City began to be an Harlot, and great Babylon prostituted itself; but could not yet inebriate the Inhabitants of the Earth with her Cups of Fornication, till that time came. But these preparations must go before: as did also the publishing to the world of Constantine's Donation, long since, made (as it was pretended) but now first known to the world; for the Pope's larger temporal Dominion; and also the coming abroad of the Decretable Epistles of ancient Popes, long since also said to be written, but never before known to the world, for the Pope's greater spiritual Dominion: both which are condemned as mere counterfeits by many learned men, yea, by many of their own side. §. 7. Sigonius l 6. de regno Italiae. Werner. ●ascil temp. aetat. 6. circa annum 894 et ●74 Bellar. de Rom. Pont. l 4. c 12. verbis ult. nullum saeculum indoctius aut infaelicius Baronius tomo 10. anno 900. §. 1. Saeculum sui asperitate ac boni sterilitate ferreun, malique exundant●● deformitate plumbeum, ●●que nopia scriptorum, obscurum. Abominatio desolationis in Templo— mirum quod non secuta mox fuerit desolatio templi. But the succeeding Ages exceeded in all kind of wickedness, both by the iniquity of Princes, and madness of people as Sigonius, Wernerus, and all others record. So openly wicked; that Baronius and Bellarmine can neither hide nor deny it. Bellarmine saith, No Age was more unlearned, nor more if unlucky. Baronius saith, They Were Iron Ages, for barrenness of goodness, Leaden Ages for abundance of evil, Ages of darkness for scarcity of Writers, which he tells in the beginning of the story, lest a weak man seeing (in the story) the abomination of desolation sitting in the Temple, should be offended, and not rather wonder, that there followed not immediately the desolation of the Temple. And Baronius, anno 912. §. 8. laments thus. O what a face was then of the Roman Church! how filthy! when the most rich, and withal the most sordid Whores domineered at Rome! by whose pleasure Bishop's Seas were changed, Bishops placed: and (which is horrible to be heard or spoken) their Sweethearts (false Bishops) were intruded into Peter's seat; which are for no other ends recorded in the Catalogue of Roman Bishops, but only to fill up the times. And a little after. Then plainly (as appeareth) Christ was in a deep sleep in the ship, when by these strong winds blowing, the ship was near covered with waves. He slept (I say) when seeming not to see these things, he suffered them, and arose not to avenge them. And (which seemed yet worse) there wanted Disciples with their cries to awake him, all sleeping. What Priests do you think were then chosen by these Monsters, what Deacons, Cardinals? seeing nothing is more natural then for like to beget their like? This and much more Baronius to the like effect. Gerber. epist. 40. at the end of that Age. Usher. ib. §. 33. Platina in Benedicto, 4 Sabell. in Ennead. 9 l. 1. & l. 2. Genebrard. chronolg. l 4, in Decimi saeculi initio. Wernerus fasciculo temporum ae●●t. 6. circa annum 944. Usher. ibid. §. 34. Gerbertus in few words spoke much of those times Romanorum mores Mundus perhorrescit The Romans manners the world thoroughly abhorreth. Platina and Sabellicus have the like complaints of the state of the Church, and Popes so untollerably degenerate. And Genebrand saith, that in about 150 years, there were about fifty Popes, which wholly swerved from the virtue of their Predecessors (a virtute maiorum prorsus deficerunt Apotactici Apostaticiue potiùs, quam Apostolici) rather masters of misrule, or Apostates, than Apostolic. Wernerus a Carthusian Monk, saith of this age. Sanctitatem Papam dimisisse, & ad Jmporatores accessisse. That holiness forsook the Pope and came to the Emperors. Of the profane life of the Clergy; King Edgare made a wise religious speech to the English Bishops, which Alred Abbot of Rhievall published in writing. Abroad Rhieval. in Genealogic Davidis Regis Scotiae, MS. I must say (saith he) that which good men lament, and wicked laugh at: they melt away in gluttony and drunkenness, in chambering and wantonness; that now the houses of Clerks are accounted the Brothels of Whores, and Synods of jesters; their Dicing, their Singing and dancing, their sitting up till midnight with clamour and horror. Thus, thus ye waste the Patrimony or Kings, the alms of Princes, and which is more, the price of his most precious blood. Did our Fathers exhaust their treasures to this end? Usher. ibid. § 33 Polydor. lib 6. Hist. Angl. A●l. fric. serm. ad sacerdotes MS. colleg. Benedict. Cantabrig. Joan. Stella Sacerdos in vita B●nedicti 4 Papae 122. inquit. Acciderat illi aetati, quod omnis virtus, tam in capite quam in membris, ex hominum iganvia consumpta fuerit. I have Constantine's, you have Peter's sword in our hands. Let us join hands, and swords, that the leprous may be cast out of our Tents, and the Lords Sanctuary may be purged. Do it carefully, that we may not repent of what we have done, and what we have given, finding that it is consumed, not in the service of God, but in the luxury of wicked man, with unbridled liberty. The covetous ravine and tyranny both of Monks and Priests, most scandalous, beyond all lay men, at those times is described and lamented, by Polydore Vergil, Aelfricus, Joannes Stella, and others. §. 8. Usher. ibid. cap. 3. §. 1. etc. After the great secular year of Christ (1000 after his Incarnation) the Christian faith much decayed from the ancient unity: and inundation of all wickedness overflowed the world, by the descriptions and lamentations of Wernerus, Glaber Rodulphus, Lupus Episcopus, Guilelmus Archiepiscopus Tyrensis, etc. and wonderful prodigies and terrors appeared from above, and below were plagues, famines, earthquakes, etc. (spoken of by Sigonius, Hector Boethius. Hepidamus, Rupertus, Wernerus, Glaber, Sabellicus, Sigebert, Nangiacus, Vincentius, Bellevacensus, Antonius Florenticus, Archiepiscopus, Joannes Nanclerus) as proclaimers of Antichrists coming; for many believed that Antichrist was then borne, (as Baronius recordeth, 1001. §. 1. & 4. §. 5. ) by the testimony of Abbo Floriacensis, of the time presently after the thousandth year of Christ; which opinion had continued from the times of Hippolytus, Cyrill, and chrysostom. In the thousandth year after Christ's birth, Usher. ib. cap. 4. Benno in vi●● Hil●hbrandi & Platina in vita ●jus. Silvester the second was Bishop of Rome, and sat 4 years he was before named Gerbertus. He entered by the Devil's aid, (saith the Cardinal Benno) and by the devil's deceit was quickly destroyed. And anno 1033. (which was the thousandth after Christ's death,) Benedict the ninth, a child of ten or twelve years old was made Pope, by money, not by merit, and sat 12 years. He was also cunning in Magic and devilish in Arts, and wrought much mischief to the Church and Common wealth, (saith Benuo) he was homo ignavus & nullius pretij (saith Platina and Stella) Probrosus & infamius (saith Volateran) Nefarius (saith Baronius:) and he was chosen by the Devils in the woods (saith Benno) In his time Cardinals began to be in some estimation: a Baron. anno 1061. §. 9.16. And in Nicolas the seconds time, anno 1059. they had the first voices in choosing Popes. Now they do all, they are created by these words, b August. triumph. de potestat. eccles. quaest. 8. art. 4. Ballar. Apolog. cont●a jacobum Regem cap. 4. pag. 34, 35. adedit. Romae. 1610. Estote fratres nostri, & principes mundi The Pope creates them, and they create the Pope. Bellarmine saith. This dignity is not new, since it hath been 500 years. But surely that is new, which came into the Church after Satan's losing. In which respect Wiclife saith, Cardinals were the invention of the Devil. For (in stead of lots directe● by the Lord in the election of Mathias, Acts 1.) Now whomsoever the Cardinals choose, be he fit or unfit, Wic●f. art. 40. in council. Constan. sess. 8. & in speculo milit. eccle. cap. 10. Camera●. Cardinal. lib. de Reform Eccle. he is strait Beatissimus Pater, & Immediatus Christi vicarius. Wicliffe was indeed condemned in the Council of Constance, yet many in that Council held with his opinion saith Cameracensis: that such choice of the Pope by Cardinals was unprofitable and hurtful to the Church, and was used without reasonable cause, burdensome to the Church and fit to be abolished. Howsoever they are dignified with most glorious and transcendent titles, Clemang de corrupto Eccle. statu. §. 26. whose office was at first (saith Clemangis) to carry out the dead and bury them. §. 9 When a thousand years was expired after the destruction of Jerusalem, still greater miscries fell upon Christendom. Romanus Diogenes. Emperor of the East, was assailed by War, and taken Prisoner by the Sultan of the Persians and Assyrians, trodden upon in despite of the Christian religion and returning home, had his eyes put out by his own Nobles and rejected. The Sultan subdueth many Countries, great Antiochia; Celosyra, both the Calicias, Isaurio, Pamphilia, Lycia, Pisidia, Lycaonia, Cappadocia, Galatia, both the Pontuses, Bythinia, Matt. Paris hist. anno Dom. 1072. and part of the lesser Asia, etc. And in the West, the negligence and wickedness of the Clergy, was so outrageous, that some published letters as sent from Hell by Satan and all his infernal powers, giving thankes to the Ecclesiastical orders that they failed in nothing to do him pleasure, but sent or suffered so many souls to descend to Hell, as never any Ages had done before. Anton. in Chro. tit. 16. cap. 1. § 21. Segebert. chron. an. 1088 The Shismes of Anti-popes' and Anti-cesars', increased this evil: the Crowns and the Crosiers dissenting, one excommunicating another, and one contemning another's censure, and treading down both authority and equity under their feet. And then began that Novity (not to call it heresy) that to evil Prince's subjection was not due; and though men had sworn fidelity to them, Onuphr. Vita Greg. 7, ex libro 4. de var●a creation's Rom. Pontif. yet they ought them no fidelity: and that whosoever rose against the King was not perjured, but he that obeyed the King, was to be accounted excommunicate This saith Sigebert, was a Novity, if not heresy. But Onuphrius saith, that hence did arise perniciosissima seditio & haeresis omnium pestilentissima. And Auentinus saith. Then false prophets, false apostles, Aventin. Annal. Bo●er. l. 5. false priests came out and deceived the people with counterfeit Religion, and seeking to establish their own power and dominion quenched Christian charity and simplicity, and then all good, open, just, ingenuous, and plain people thought the kingdom of Antichrist began, for they saw that was come to pass, which Christ so many years before had foretold. Thus writes Aventine, of the times of Gregory the seventh, formerly called Hildebrand. Waltramus, Bishop of Naumburg, and Lambertus Schasuaburgensis, and Gerhohus Be cherspergensis say, Now was Satan let lose out of prison. Sir john Haywoo● of Supremacy, pag. 68 Ma●hiavel. dispat. de rep. l. 1. c. 12. & Hosp●n. de Orig. Monach. l. 6. c. 66. For Piety and Religion now did not only decline by degrees, but ran headlong to a ruinous downfall, and there was no where less piety, then in those that dwelled nearest to Rome, as Machiavelli observed. This Hildebrand, called afterwards Gregory the seventh, lived in this tenth Age, beginning his Papacy, Anno 1076. The Canons or Dictates of this Hillebrand, Onuphr. in vita Gregorij 7 col. 248. B. Usher. ib. cap. 5. §. 17. Greg. 7. Kegest. lib. 2 post. epist. 55. tom. 3. Con●● edit. Binij, part. 2. pag. 1196. (which he devised or executed beyond all his Predecessors, saith Onuphrius) were many and strange: whereof these are the chiefest. 1 That the Bishop of Rome only is by right called universal. 2 That he may ordain Clerks in every Church where he will. 3 That the greater causes of every Church ought to be referred to that Sea. 4 That he alone can depose Bishops, or reconcile them. 5 That his Legate is above all other Bishops, though he be of inferior degree, and that he may give the sentence of deposition against them. 6 That he alone may for the necessity of times, make new laws. 7 That he alone may use the Imperial Ensigns. 8 That his feet alone all Princes must kiss. 9 That he may absolve subjects from their fidelity to wicked Princes. 10 That he alone may depose Princes and Emperors. 11 That his sentence way not be retracted by any man; and he alone may retract all men's. 12 That he ought not to be judged of any man. 13 That he is not to be accounted Catholic, that concordeth not with the Roman Church. 14 That the Church of Rome did never err, neither ever can err. 15 That the Bishop of Rome, if he be Canonically ordained, is by the merits of S. Peter undoubtedly made holy. 16 That no Council without his command ought to be called general. Onuphr. ib. col. 250. Sir john H●y ●ard Supremacy, pag. 57 Aven●●n. Annal. Boiorum lib. 7. ●ribuit hanc sententiam Eberhardo Salisburiensi Episcopo: Hildebrandus primus specie religionis Antichristi imperij fundamenta jecit. Hoc bellum nesandum primus auspicatus est, quod per successor● hucusque continuatur. And A entine h●●●elfe in the fi●t book, writes thus. 17 That no Chapter or Book in the Bible shall be accounted Canonical without his authority. 18 That no man dare to condemn him that appealeth to the Apostolic Sea, etc. Upon these foundations (saith Onuphirius) he laid his steps and stairs, and made his way to effect all that in his mind he had conceived. This man was the first that enterprised to be elected and consecrated Pope without consent of the Emperor: and set forth a Decree to excommunicate all that affirmed the consent or knowledge of the Emperor to be necessary to the election of Popes. He (saith Aventine) was the first, that under colour of Religion built up the Pope's Empire (primus Jmperrium pontificium condidit) which his successors for 400 and 50 years together, maugre the world maugre the Emperors (invito mudo, invitis Imperatoribus) have so drawn out, that they have brought into servitude high and low, put them under their yoke, and terrified all with their thunder.— that the Roman Emperor is now nothing but only a name without a body, without glory. §. 10. Onuphrius speaks enough also (though he was a great favourer and amplifier of the Pope's dignity. Onuph●n vita Gregor. 7. col. 271, 272. ) Thus he writes. Him alone (that is Hildebrand) may all the Latin Churches, but especially the Roman, thank for freedom from the Emperor's hand, and for the large endowment or wealth, riches, and (profanaditione) worldly jurisdiction; and for being preferred and set over Kings, Emperors, and all Christian Princes: and shortly to speak in a word, by him it attained to that great and high estate whereby the Church of Rome is become the Mistress of all Christians: whereas before, as a poor handmaid, (tanguam vilis ancilla) it was held under, not only by the Emperors, but by every Prince that was aided by the Emperor: from him (Hildebrand) flowed the right (jus) of that great, and almost infinite power of the Roman Bishop, so fearful and venerable in all Ages. For although before, the Roman Bishops were honoured as the heads of Christian Religion, Christ's Vicars, and Peter's successors: yet their authority stretched no further than to the propounding or maintaining of points of faith: but their persons were subject to the Emperors; all was done by the Emperor's appointment; by them the Popes were created; of them the Popes of Rome durst not judge, or determine any thing. All the Bishops of Rome, Gregory the seventh was the first (trusting to the Arms of the Normans, and the wealth of Maud the Countess, a powerful woman in Italy: and inflamed by the Germane Princes discords, wasting themselves by ciu●ll wars:) beyond the custom of his Ancestors, contemning the authority and power of the Emperor, when he had obtained the Popedom, dared not only to excommunicate, but further to deprive of his Kingdom and Empire, the Emperor himself, by whom if he was not elected, yet he was confirmed in his Popedom: Res ante easecula inaudita; A thing never heard of before that Age. For, the Fables which are reported of Arcadius, Anastasius, and Leo Iconomachus (nihil moror) I reck not of. Whereupon Otto Frisingensis, a Writer of those times, Lego & relego. saith thus; I read over and over the Acts of the Roman Kings and Bishops, but I never find any of them before this Henry, excommunicated by the Bishop of Rome, or deprived of his Kingdom, B. Usher. graviss. quaest. cap. 5. §. 8, 9, etc. etc. Thus writes Onuphrius. The like with Otto, writes Gotfridus Viterbiensis, Joannes Trithenius: and others alleged (with these) by our Bishop Usher. Of Hildebrand, not only Cardinal Benno (who lived in his time and wrote his life) but many others do write very prodigiousand devilish things: as Paulus Bernriedensis, joannes Trithenus, joh. Aventinus, Marianus Scotus, Otto Frisingensis, Conradus Liechtenavius, Abbas Vrspergensis, Carolus Sigonius, and Onuphrius, that he was a Magician, a Necromancer, and by help of the Devil got the Popedom, and that he was so judged by thirty Bishops gathered together out of Italy, Frace, and Germany, in Synodo Brixinae Noricae, anno 1080. Although the late jesuite and Cardinal Baronius would excuse him. He propagated the doctrine of Devils, forbidding marriage to the Clergy, and commanding abstinence from meats, (I Tim. 4.1, 3.) about which many troubles and evils arose in the Church; In the Histories of anno. 1074. as Sigebertus Gemblacensis, and Lambertus Schasuaburgensis (beside many other) report at large, and with much detestation. See the story of this Hildibrand hereafter. This Hildebrand laid the foundation of Papism, or the Pope's greatness, and was exceedingly opposed by the Bishops of Germany and France, and the greatest number of Jtalians condemning his wicked doctrine and courses: as did also the common people, calling the Pope Antichrist, that trod under foot, all Laws, Usher ib. §. 18. 2●. etc. Avent. lib. 5. Annal. aedit. ●ngolst. anno ●●54. pag. 573. 574. humane and divine: and under the title of Christ, d d the business of Antichrist, absolving men, not from sin, but from the Laws of God; filling the world with wars, seditions, ravishments, perjuries, murders, fire, and robberies, corrupting Histories to cover and maintain his ambition; yea adulterating the holy Scriptures with false interpretations to serve his lusts. This inexpiable wickedness, this mischief, never before heard of in the world, aught to be cut off by the Emperor's sword; the Wolf raging in the Sheep's skin ought to be taken out of the world, etc. This and much more (as Aventine reporteth,) Plerique tum privatim, publice clamitant. At that time therefore the greatest part of the world, Princes, Bishops, and people cried out for reformation of intolerable corruptions crept into the Church. §. 11. Antiquus. You and your Authors reckon up obscure Historians; but the most approved writers of Church-Histories, are wholly for us, such as our Martyr Campian reckoneth up in his seventh Reason, Eusebius, Damasus, Hieronymus, Ruffinus, Orosius, Socrates, Sozomenus, Theodoretus, Cassiodorus, Gregorius, Turonensis, Vsuordus Regino, Marianus, Sigeberius, Zonaras, Cedrenus. Nicephorus; These are wholly in the praise of our Church. Antiquissimus. I answer you manifoldly; First, I have cited many of these speaking against the manifold corruptions of your Church in their own times. Secondly, the more ancient of these which Campian reckons, could not speak against the corruptions which were not brought into the Church, until after their times. Thirdly the latest of these might well be parties with you, as maintained by you, to like the things usual in their times, and yet many of them could not hold, but gravely reproved the novel corruptions of their times. See B. morton's Apologia Cathol. part. 2. l. 2, c. 9 And lastly, I say Campian wrote untruely and unsoundly, making a glorious flourish, that all these Historians were wholly for your praises, when as yet your own Writers do ordinarily reject them, as writing against you. As for example. Eusebius, in rejecting and refelling of whose History Gelasius, hath used great wisdom, saith our Bishop Canus a Canus loc. theol. lib. 11. cap. 6. pag 659. . And your Cardinal Bellarmine saith. To Irenaeus, Tertullian, Eusebius and Luther, I answer, Omnes manifesti haeretici sunt. They are all manifest Heretics b B●l●a● de Christo l. 1. cap 9 pag. 104. . Hieronymus, He is not the rule of the Church (a bold and a bald scoff) in judging of the Canonical Scriptures, saith your Canus c Canus loc. come. lib. 2. p. 7●. §. secundum quoque. . Ruffinus, He knew not the traditions of the Fathers, saith Canus d Canus ibid. §. nam ad primum. . Damasus, Sophrnoius, Simeon Metaphrastes (when they cross the now Romish tenets) they little move me, saith Bellarmine e Bellar. de Rom. pontiff. lib. 2 cap. 5. §. neque multum me movet. . Marianus Scotus, secum ipse & cum veritate pugnat. saith Bellarmine f Bellar. ibid. §. quocirca sasciculum temporum & passionale merito contemnimus. : he plainly crosseth himself and the truth; and therefore we justly contemn his Fasciculus temporum, and his Passionale. Sigebert he was a follower or favourer of Henry the fourth, and therefore took things wrong, saith Bellarmine g Bellar. ib. lib. 4. cap. 13. §. Respondeo Sigebertum. . Sigebert, and Marianus Scotus, we know well enough, they are corrupt Authors saith Bellarmine h Bellar. ib. lib. 3. cap. 24. § quod autem. . Socrates, He was a Novatian Heretic, his testimony in dogmatic points is of no moment, saith Bellarmine i Bellar. de cultu Sanctorum lib. 3. cap. 10. § add ultimò. . Sozomenus, multa mentitur, he lies in many things, saith your jesuite Valentinianus k Valent. de caelibatu cap. 6. § primo quia Sozomenus. : also, Socrates, and Sozomenus are not worthy of credit (In the story of Paphnutius) Valent ib. l Valent. ib. . And Sozomens History is Reprobata a Gregorio, quia multa mentitur, saith Bellarmine m Bellar. lib. 1. de clericis. cap. 20. § at quod council. . Thus the Historians of greatest note which your Campian allegeth, are by Campians Fellows and Masters, rejected, refelled or refuted, condemned for Heretics, scoffed at, not regarded, counted liars, mistaken and erroneous, corrupted, Heretics, unworthy of credit, etc. Antiquus. Indeed I cannot but wonder at it, that they should be thus in general applauded, and in particulars rejected? Antiquissimus. And so the world both in general and particular deluded. For, observe here by the way. First, If these Histories be true, which have recorded many grievous corruptions crept into your Church, with the world's wonder and detestation of them: how have you been deluded and persuaded of the unity, sincerity and glory of that Church, never spoken against by any, before Luther's time? but that all Writers and Histories spoke in high commendation thereof? which you see, they do not. Secondly, If the Histories be false or doubtful: how can you appeal to them for a true description of the succession, propagation, doctrine, traditions, or customs of the Church, to show the sincerity and truth thereof? which you more urge, and more lean upon then upon the Scriptures. §. 12. Antiquus. Well then to let these histories pass, See these things more at large in B. usher. ib. cap. 7. §. 5. show me some learned judicious Divines, that have written against the errors and corruptions, by you ascribed to the Church of Rome. Antiquissimus. Take good Saint Bernard for one (who lived about the year, 1130. Bernard in Cantio. ser●●. 33. ) woe be unto this generation (saith he) for the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy: if yet that may be called hypocrisy, which for the abundance cannot, and for the Impudence desires not, to be hid.— Omnes amici, & omnes inimici, omnes necessarij, & omnes adversarij: omnes domestici, & nulli pacifici: omnes proximi, & omnes quae sua sunt, quaerunt Ministri Christi sunt, & seruiunt Antichristo. All friends, and yet all are enemies: all necessaries, and yet all adversaries: all of an household, yet none peaceable: all neighbours, yet every one seeks his own: the Ministers of Christ, but they serve Antichrist. And afterwards. Superest ut de medio fiat daemonium meridianum, etc. It remaineth, that the Meridian Devil (the bold devil that walks at noon, or at midday in the open light) come to deceive the residue that still are in Christ, persisting in their simplicity. For he hath supped up the rivers of wise men, and torrents of powerful men: job 40.23. and hath hope that Jordan will run in his mouth that is, The humble and simple that are in the Church. For he is Antechrist, which counterfetteth himself to be not only the day, 2 Thess. 2.4, 8. but the midday: and extols himself above all that is worshipped as God: whom the Lord jesus will slay with the breath of his mouth, and destroy in the appearing of his coming. Bern. in Psal. 90. vel. 91. ser. 6. This conclusion also he repeats, writing upon the Psalm Qui habitat. Superest, ut reveletur homo peccati, etc. It remaineth, that the Man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Daemonium non modo diurnum, sed & meridianum: quod non solum transfiguratur in Angelum lucis, sed extollitur super omne quod dictur Deus, aut quod colitur. etc. Bern. serm. 1. in convers. Pauli. And elsewhere Saint Bernard makes his complaint to God: O God, thy near friends come near to stand against thee. The whole University of Christian people from the least to the greatest, seem to have conspired against thee. From the sole of the feet to the crown of the head, there is no soundness. Iniquity is gone out from the elder judges thy Vicars, Of Bernard, see more in D. ●●eld Appendix to the fift book of the Church, part. 1. pag. 88, 89. which seem to rule thy people: and now we cannot say, such people, such Priest; for the people are not so as the Priest. Alas, alas, O Lord God, those are the first & chief in persecution, who seem to love and bear the first and chief place in thy Church, etc. Johannes Sarisburiensis told Hadrian the fourth, Joh Sarisbur. in Policratic. lib. 6. cap. 24. plainly, what the world thought of him and his Prelates: that the Roman Church shown herself not a mother, but a step mother to all other Churches. For in it sit the Scribes and Pharises, laying importable burdens upon men's shoulders, which themselves will not touch with one finger.— They hurt very oft, and herein they follow the Devils, which then are thought to do good, when they cease to do harm, except a very few, who perform the name and office of Pastors. Sed & ipse Romanus Pontifex, omnibus gravis & fere intolerabilis est: that is, even the Bishop of Rome himself is grievous to all, and almost intolerable. Aliacus de Reformatione Ecclesiae. Caesarius Heisterbach. hist. lib. 2. cap. 29. These times were evil, the succeeding much worse. Of which Petrus de Aliaco, Cardinal of Cambray, said, It was a proverb in his time. Ad hunc statum venit Romana ecclesia, ut non esset digna regi nisi per reprobos. The Church of Rome was come to that state, that it was not worthy to be governed, but only by Reprobates. Robert Grosthead, Matth. Paris. in Henric. 3. See this History abridged in D. Field church. appendix part. 1. pag. 97. & B. Carlton. jurisd. cap. 8. §. 111. a very learned and holy Bishop of Lincoln, living anno 1140. wrote sharply to the Pope (for the evils he did specially in England) that he was opposite to Christ, a murderer of souls, and an Heretic in these his courses, etc. Upon receipt of which letters the Pope was exceedingly moved, threatening to cast down this Bishop into the pit of all confusion, but was pacified by the more moderate Cardinals, telling him of this Bishop's holiness, learning, reputation: and since there must be a departure from their Church, the meddling with such an excellent man might occasion it; the things which he proved being full and manifest. Archb. Abbo●. contra Hill, reason 1. §. 28. William Ockam an Englishman, a great Schooleman, living anno 1320. for his large reproof of the Papacy in many points in his books, he was excommunicated by the pope, and died willingly under that sentence. Catalogue testium. verit. lib 18. D. Field. ch l. 3. c. 11. He cried out of perverting Scriptures, Fathers, and Canons of the Church with shameless and Harlot's foreheads; and that many that should be pillars of the Church did cast themselves headlong into the pit of Heresies See B. Carlton. jurisdiction, cap. 1. §. 11. Michael Cesenas, lived anno 1320. he was general of the Order of the Minorites, he wrote against three constitutions of Pope john 22. and was by john deprived and disabled from taking any other dignity: but Cesena appealed from the Pope (as from the head of faction in the Church) to the Roman Catholic, and Apostolic Church, and was favoured therein by Ockam, and many famous learned men, and by the two Universities of Oxford and Paris. Nicholas Clemangis, Archidiaconus Baiocensis, living anno 1417. in his book De corupto Ecclesiae statu, writes very sharply against the Pope's ambition and covetousness, preying upon all Churches, and bringing them into miserable slavery: and against the stately Cardinals, and other vices of the Clergy. Gerson lib. de council o unius obedientiae, and in many other books. John Gerson, Chancellor of Paris, anno 1429. writes the like, wishing that all things should be reform and brought back to their ancient state, in or near the Apostles times. Of Gersons' doctrine, see D. Field Appendix, to the fifth book of the Church, part. 2. p. 73. & seq. Petrus de Aliaco Cardinalis Cameracensis, living about the same time, wrote to the Council of Constance, a book wherein he reproveth many notable abuses of the Romanists, and giveth advice how to redress them. Arch. Abbot ibid. §. 13. Laurentius Valla, a Patricias of Rome, and Canon of Saint john's of Lateran, living about the same time. wrote against the forged Donation of Constantine, and many abuses of the Pope: and was by the Pope driven into exile. I might here speak of Leonardus Aretinus, Antonius Cornelius Lynnichanus, and diverse other writers reproving the same things. §. 13. Antiquus. Let them alone; for these whom you have alleged, speak not of any false doctrines of the Church of Rome, but only against the wicked lives of the Professors. Antiquissimus. Yes, against both: and especially, because they laboured by false doctrine to justify their doings, and therefore they writ not only against the Pope, but against the Papacy, the very office that challenged a right to do such things as the Pope and his Clergy did. The two Cardinals Cameracensis and Cusanus, Camer. in his book to the Council of Constance. Cusanus Concord. Cathol. lib. 2. wholly condemned the Papacy (as we do) denying the Pope's universality of jurisdiction, uncontrollable power, infallible judgement, and right to meddle with Prince's states; making him nothing but the first Bishop in order and honour, amongst the Bishops of the Christian Church. And this claimed power of the Pope, dissolving the whole frame of Ecclesiastical Hierarchy, and form of government settled by Christ, was thought no less hurtful than the bringing in of heresy and false doctrine, by all that wrote against it: and therefore they impute unto it, Heresim pestilentissimam, and all such things as belong only to Antichrist and his followers. And indeed the desire of worldly wealth and honour drew on many corruptions of doctrine. For when the over-politicke Popes found but few learned i●dicious men able to maintain the truth, and few potent courageous Princes able to maintain their right against them: then they fell to make their own greatness, wealth, and honour the very rule to square out the Canons of Faith and Government, and then set Clerks on work to device arguments to maintain them The Church at that time abounding with rewards to quicken their wits, and spur on their diligence. From this root proceeded (doubtless) the forged Donation of Constantine, and the Decrees and decretal Epistles of ancient Bishops, then newly brought to the knowledge of the world, and never before seen, and in these more learned Ages rejected by their own Doctors: and from this root, sprung a new generation of Schoolmen, moulding a new Doctrine mixed of Philosophy and diunity, to amuse and amaze the world, and keep it in blindness: and much corruption of Scriptures, which now must have no other sense then their Philosophy, and the Rules of their Government will give it. This desire of wealth and greatness, brought in Image-worship, which the holy Scriptures so plainly and plentifully condemn. For when it might easily have been abolished, See the Histories of those times. as but then creeping in: and that Leo Jsaurus Emperor, seeing the Saracens take offence at Christians, to abhor and massacre them for their Images in Churches, which offence Leo took away and burned the Images: Pope Gregory the second, that aught to have joined therein; opposed him, and took the hint to make the Emperor odious to all Italy, as an enemy to Religion, to the Saints and to their Memories. And while the Emperor was weakened by the Saracens in the East, the Pope made this an occasion to make the West to revolt from him: and quickly deprived him of Italy: to the great injury of the Emperor scandal to the world, and hurt to Christendom. And then Image worship must be defended that had been the means of so much wealth to the Pope, with opposing Council to Council, Princes and learned men one against another, to the great trouble of Christendom. The worshipping of Images therefore did the Pope good service: and so it doth still; for it draws multitudes of devout people to Rome, and other places, with their offerings and other spend to enrich them. §. 14. But to leave these things, and come to particular doctrines held then by many, otherwise than they be now by the Romans. The Fathers held those books for Canonical Scriptures which we now do, D. Field of the Church lib. 4. cap. 23. & Appendix. part. 1. pag. 100 See all their allegations in D. Field. lib. 4. cap. 23. and separated those from the Canon which we do separate. Namely, Melito Bishop of Sardis, Origen, Athanasius, Hilarius, Nazianzen Cyril of Jerusalem, Epiphanius, Ruffinus, Hierom, Gregory, and Damascene. So did also many other learned men, living in the corrupt state of the Church under the Papacy: as, Hugo de Sancto victore, Richardo de Sancto victore, Petrus Cluviacensis, Lyranus, Dionysius Carthusianus, Hugo Cardinalis, Thomas Aquinas, Richardus Armachanus, Picus Mirandula, Ockam, Caietan, and Dredo. In this point they were all Protestants, and desired the reformation that we have made. That man after the Fall, Field Appendix ad lib. 5. part. 1. pag. 101. until he be restored by grace can do nothing spiritually good, or that is not sin: nor can any way dispose himself to a true conversion unto God, without preventing grace, was the doctrine of S Augustine, Prosper; and more lately of Thomas Bradwardin: Gregorius Ariminensis, Cardinal Contaren, and Bonaventure, cited by Cassander Consult. art. 8. justification by Christ's imputed righteousness (not by our inherent) was taught by S. Bernard. Epist. 190. Bernard. Ge●son lib. 4. de consulatione theologiae. See these alleged in my second Book, in the chapter of justification. Assignata est homini justitia aliena, quia caruit sua. To man is assigned the righteousness of another, because he had none of his own. And serm 61 In cantica. And Gerson, and Cardinal Contarenus, and the Divines of Colen in their Enchiridion, and Antididagma, and Albertus Pighius. That man cannot merit any thing properly at God's hand, See D. Field. Church. appendix ad lib. 4. cap. 11. Scotus, Ariminensis, Waldensis are plain. So Pope A●rian on the 4 of the Sentences cited by Cassander, Consult. art. 6. and Clicthoveus cited there also. And Bernard. serm. 1. in festo omnium sanctorum, and oft elsewhere, he saith our good works are via regni, non causa regnandi, the way to heaven, but not the cause meriting heaven. See these Author's words cited at large in Bishop Ushers book. D. Field Church. appendix part. 1. pag. 103. etc. And Cardinal Contarenus, epist. ad Cardinalem Farnesium. To which add out of Bishop Ushers answer to the Irish jesuite. pag. 500 & seq. A great number more of ancient Fathers and later writers. That Christ's merits are to be apprehended by a lively faith, which faith is a motion of the spirit, when men truly repenting of their former life, are raised and lifted up to God, and do truly apprehend the mercies of God promised in Christ, and do indeed feel in themselves an assurance that they have received remission of their sins, and reconciliation by God's goodness, and by the merit of Christ, and do cry Abba Father. Cited by Cassander. consult. a●●, 4. This is expressly delivered in the book exhibited by Charles the fift Emperor, to the Divines of both sides: and the Divines agreed unto it. And in the Enchiridion (cited by Cassander, ibid.) well approved by all the learned Divines of Italy and France: and by Cardinal Contarenus in his Tract of justification: and by the Divines of Colen in their Antididagma, De duplici fiducia, and by Saint Bernard, serm. 1. de Annuntiatione dominica. The Communion in both kinds is delivered to the people in all Churches of the world unto this day, saving in the Roman Church: and in the Roman Church it so continued, for more than a thousand years, in the solemn, ordinary, and public dispensation of that Sacrament: Cassander consult art. 22. As Cassander showeth, and Beatus Rhenanus. And it hath been called for, with great earnestness, by many Nations and Churches, Rhenanus upon Tertullian de corona militis. both before and in the Council of Trent: and is still stiffly denied by the Pope and his Prelates. Against private Communions (called private Masses) where none of the people present receive, but the priests only: Cassander writes, and Micrologus, Cassander praefat. ord. Microl. de officio Missae cap. 19 Clicth●veus on the Canon of the Mass, cited by Cassander. ibidem. and Clicthoveus, among many others. Circumgestation (saith Cassander) is contrary to the manner of the Ancients, Cassander consult. art. 22. Feild. quo supra. for they admitted none to the fight of the Sacrament, but the partakers, and therefore the rest were bidden depart. Crautzius praiseth Cusanus, who being the pope's Legate in Germany, took away his Circumgestation unless it were within the Octaves of Corpus Christi day: The Sacrament being instituted for use, and not for ostentation. Touching the honour of Saints, Gerson and Contarenus, Gerson de Directione cordis. consider 16. & sequent. Contarenus in confut. artic. Lutheri. and many others reprehend sundry superstitious observations, and wish they were wisely abolished. Whether the Saints in heaven do particularly know our estate, and hear our cries and groans, not only Saint Augustine, August. de cura pro mortuis. Glossa in Esay 63 Hugo Erudit. Theolog. de sacram. fidei lib. 2. part. 16. cap. 11. and the Author of the Interlineall gloss; But Hugo de Sancto victore tells us it is altogether uncertain, and cannot be known. So that though in generality they pray for us (or rather for all the Church on earth,) yet we may not safely and with faith pray to them. That in the primitive Church, public prayers were celebrated in the vulgar tongue; Lyra confesseth, Lyra in 1. Cor. 14 Caietan in respon ad Articulos Parisiense●, and Caietan professeth that he thinketh it would be more for edification, if they were so now. And he confirmeth his opinion out of Saint Paul. Saint Bernard wrote diverse things concerning the now- Romish Doctrine, touching special faith, imperfection and impurity of inherent righteousness, merits power of freewill, the conception of the blessed Virgin, and the keeping of the feast of her conception. a See D. Field. Appendix to the fift book of the Church. part. 1. pag. 89. Bernard. serm. 5. de verb. Esaiae. All our righteousness (saith he) is as the polluted rags of a menstruous woman. b Serm. 1. de Annunciat. We must believe particularly that all our sins are remitted us. c Tract. de gratia & lib. arb. in fine. Our works are via regni, not causa regnandi, they are the way that leadeth to the kingdom, but no cause why we reign. d Epist. 175. ad Canonicos. Lugd. The blessed Virgin was conceived in sin; and the feast of her conception ought not to be kept. So that what errors and abuses we have amended in our reformed Churches; those the learned men of former Ages, have espied, and have written against them: and we have made no other Reformation than they hearty desired. For conclusion of this point; see what a number of famous men, writing and preaching against the corruptions of Rome, One University afforded: and thereby guess what the world did. §. 15. Gabriel Powel de Antichristo. Edit. Lond. 1605. reckons these Oxford men amongst many others in his Preface. 1 King Alfred, Founder of Oxford University: would not have his people ignorant of Scriptures, or barred the reading thereof. Anno 880 Capgrav. catalogue. Sanct Angliae. Polydor. Virg. hist. Ang. lib. 5. Baleus. 2 Joannes Patricius Erigena, a Briton, first Reader in Oxford, ordained by the King; wrote a book of the Eucharist, agreeable to bertram's, and condemned after by the Pope, in Vercellensi Synodo. And he Martyred for it, anno 884. Philip. in Chron. lib. 4. sub Henr. 4, Baleus cent. 2. cap 24. 3 Some Divines at Oxford were burnt in the face and banished, for saying the Church of Rome was the Whore of Babylon, Monkery a stinking carrion: their vows, toys, and nurses of Sodom, Purgatories, Masses dedications of Temples, worship of Saints, etc. inventions of the Devil, anno 960. Matth. Paris. lib. 4. Guido Perpin. de haeresib. Baleus cent. 2. 4 Arnulph or Arnold, an English preacher, a Monk of Oxford, for preaching bitterly against Prelates and Priests wicked lives and corruptions, cruelly butchered, anno 1126. (but saith Platina, greatly commended by the Roman Nobility for a true servant of Christ) Bale cent. 2. cap. 70. 5 Joannes Sarisburiensis, anglus Oxoniensis theologus, Episcopus Carnotensis, beloved of the Pope's Engenius 3. and Hadrian. 4. wrote against the abuses of Clergy and Bishops, in Objurgatorie Cleri, & in Polycratico, he saith, The Scribes and Pharises sit in the Roman Church, laying importable burdens on men's shoulders. The Pope is grievous to all, and almost intolerable. [Ita debacchantur ejus legati ac si ad ecclesiam flagellandam egressus sit Satan a fac●e domini.] and he that dissents from their doctrine is judged an Heretic or a Schismatic, etc. 1140. Sarisburien. Polycr. lib. 5. cap. 16. & lib. 6. cap. 24. 6 Gualo, Professor of Mathematics in Oxford, much praised of Sarish. in Polycrat. wrote invectives against Priests, of the Monkish profession, their luxuries, pomps, and impostures, anno 1170. Bale cent. 3. cap. 15. 7 Gilbert Foliot, Doctor of Divinity in Oxford, Bishop first of Hereford, and after of London, persuaded King Henry 2 (after the example of Jehoshaphat and other Kings) to keep the Clergy in subjection: and oft resisted and blamed Tho. Becket to his face, 1170. Bale ib. cap. 7. 8 Sylvester Gyrald, Archdeacon Menevensis beloved of Hen. 2 and john King of England, wrote a book of the Monks (Cistertians) naughtiness, etc. 1200. ●eland catalogo virorum illustrium. Bale cent 3 cap. 59 9 Alexander, a Divine of Oxford, sent by King John, to defend his authority against the Pope, which he did by reasons and Scriptures: and wrote against the Pope's power, and temporal Dominion. He was banished by Langton, Bishop of Canterbury; and died in exile, he lived, anno 1207. when King john banished 64. Monks of Canterbury for contumary breaking his commandment. Bale cent 3 cap. 57 10 Gualther Maxes, Archdeacon of Oxford, a famous man, having been at Rome, and seen the ambition of the Pope, he set it out while he lived with most vehement satirical criminations. He wrote a book called, The Revelation of the Romish Goliath: and diverse others of the enormity of the Clergy: lamentation over Bishops, and against the Pope, the Roman Court, the evils of Monks, etc. he flourished, anno 1210. Silvester Gyrald, in spec. eccles. lib. 3. c. 1. & 14 Bale cent. 3 cap. 61. 11 Robertus Capito, Robert Grosthead, Doctor of Divinity in Oxford, Bishop of Lincoln; wrote against Prelates idleness: and thundered against the Romish Court: he modestly, but yet publicly reproved the covetousness, pride, and manifold tyranny of Pope Innocent 4. He was excommunicated to the pit of hell, and cited to come to their bloody Court, but he appealed from the Pope's tyranny to the eternal tribunal of jesus Christ, and shortly after died, anno 1253. The Priests that taught men's commandments and not Gods, he called Antichrists, Satan's priests, thiefs, murderers of souls, spirits of darkness: and their exemptions by the Pope, he said were the nets of the Devil: Matth. Paris calls him Magnus Ecclesiae Doctor; skilful in the Hebrew, Greek and Latin: Trivetus calls him A man of excellent wisdom, most pure life, and incomparable pattern of all virtues, 1253. Bale. cent. 4. cap. 18. 12 Sevaldus, Sebald, Archbishop of York, wrestled constantly against the tyranny of the Romish Court. He thought the Pope was permitted of God for the great hurt of many. He wrote to the Pope in great grief, to abstain from his accustomed tyranny, and to follow the humility of his holy Predecessors: and after Peter's examples to feed, not to clip, flea, bowel, devour, & consume Christ's sheep: but the Pope contemned his admonition: he died 1258. Matth. Paris in Hen. 3. anno 1258. Bale. cent. 4. cap. 23. 13 William Stengham Doctor, wrote for the sufficiency of the New Testament, only for salvation against the Evangelium eternum. He flourished anno 1260. Bale cent. 4 c. 17. 14 Roger Bacon, Fellow of Merton College in Oxford, a great Philosopher and Divine (without Necromancy, saith Bale) spoke so much against the Antichristian errors of his time, that Pope Nicholas the 4. condemned his doctrine, and imprisoned him. Antonius in Chron. he flourished, an. 1270. Bale. cent. 4. cap. 55. 15 joannes Dominicus Scotus, an English man, of Merton College; a great Schoolman, and called Doctor subtilis: he taught against the abuse of the Keys: and that Transubstantiation could not be proved, neither by Scriptures, or true Reasons, as Bellarmine confesseth, he flourished, 1290. Scotus 4 cent. dist 18. 16 John Baronthorp, Doctor and public Reader of Divinity in Oxford, called Doctor resolutus. He taught that the Pope was to be under the Emperor, and Kings. He reviled the deceits and impostures of Antichrist, flourished, 1320. as appears in his book, De Christi dominio: Jac. Papiens. l. de H. 8. divortio Bale c. 5. 17 Nicolaus Lyranus, an English man, of the jews lineage, a Divine of Oxford, amongst other things, he wrote a Book, De visione Dei, against the Pope, anno 1326. jean. Wolphius, tomo 1. lect. memorab. in anno 1326. 18 William Ockam Fellow of Merton College in Oxford, called Doctor singularis; and after Doctor invincibilis, wrote against Pope joh. 23 and against Pope Clement, charging him with heresy, and calling him Antichrist, hater of Christian poverty, and enemy to the Commonwealth he taught that the Pope had no power in Civil dominion, flourished 1330. Occam. oper. 90. dierum cap 93. Wolphius lect. memorab. tom. 1. 19 Thomas Bradwardine, of Merton College, Archbishop of Canterbury, wrote for God's grace against free will, three books: flourished, 1340. Catal. test. ver. tom. 2. 20 Nicolaus Orum, Doctor in Oxford, preached at Rome before pope Vrban 5. & the Cardinals, painting out and condemning the Papacy, and foretelling destruction to hang over the Pope and Clergies head. He wrote the Epistle from Lucifer to the Clergy, thanking them for sending so many souls to hell He placed his daughters to them as to their proper husbands. Pride, Avarice, Fraud, Luxury, and specially, Simony: See the whole Epistle in Powel de Antichristo, in calce libri. he flourished 1351. Catalogus test. ver. tom. 2. 21 Richard Role, de Hampole, Doctor in Oxford, inveighed against the unchastity, avarice, and filthiness of priests, and their Idolatry, anno 1340. Wolphius tom. 1 lect. memorab. 22 Giles Hay, a Divine in Oxford, wrote a sharp book, Contra Flagellatores, which is to be seen in Balliol College in Oxford, about the same time. Bale append. ad cent. scrip. Britan. 23 Richardus Radulphi, Richard Fitz-ralph, an Irish man, Chancellor of Oxford, Archbishop of Armagh, (Archiepiscopus Armachanus Hibernia Prima●) wrote against begging Friars, and dedicated his book to pope Innocent 4. and in his public Lectures displayed their follies, frauds, luxuries, wantonness, pride, pomps and other fryerly virtues: and held it to be a wilful beggar, condemned, Deut. 15. Wiclif. and Walden, say he was set on by the Bishops and prelate's of England: flourished 1355. Wiclif. in Trialogo. Walden in fascicul. zizanorum Wiclif. 24 Richard Killington, Doctor in Oxford, Deane of Saint Paul's in London, defended the said Richard's Doctrine: and wrote many learned books against the Monks and Friars. 1360. Bale cent. 4. cap 96. 25 john Wiclife, Doctor in Oxford, wrote great Volumes against Romish corruptions. 1360. of Wiclife, read more, Book 2. chap. 1. sect. 3. subsect. 4 §. 2. etc. 26 Robert Langland, a Divine of Oxford, wrote against Papists corruptions in English, especially the vision of Pierce Ploughman, which is extant about Anno 1369. 27 Sir john Mandevil, Doctor of physic in Oxford, Knight after his travels, said in our times, it was more true then in ancient, Virtus cessat, ecclesia calcatur, clerus errat, damon regnat, Sodoma dominatur, 1370. Bale cent. 6. cap. 46. 28 William Wickam, Bishop of Winchester, building two Colleges one at Oxford, one at Winchester, so hated Sects and Monks, that he ordained by statute under pain of expulsion present, none of the Fellows should enter the Religion of a Monk. And though he did many good works, yet he professed he trusted to jesus Christ's merits alone for salvation, 1379. Out of the statutes of Wickams' College in Oxford. rubric. 38. and his life written by Tho. Martin. lib. 3. cap. 2. 29 Philip Repington of Merton College, afterwards Bishop of Lincoln, boldly declaimed against the lives and vopure doctrine of the Romish Clergy, the Roman Pharaoh, mens traditions, Friars beggings, Masses, Pilgrimages, Auricular confession, and other things; at Oxford the Vicechancellor, Robert Rigges, and the Proctors joining with him, anno 1382. Bale cent. 6. cap. 90. 30 Geffrey Chawter Knight, Student in Oxford, Chawcer in his Ploughman's Tale & passim. wrote many things very wittily, reproving, and scoffing at the idleness foolery, and knavery of the Monks and other Clergy, at their ignorance, sergeant Relics, pilgrimages, and Ceremonies: yea the pope himself he sticked not to call an idle Laurel, a Marshal of Hell, a proud, envious, covetous Lucifer, and Antichrist, he flourished, anno 1402. 31 Alexander Carpenter, an Oxford man of Balliol College, wrote a book entitled, Destructorium vitiorum: wherein he reproved the careless and godless lives of Prelates and priests, calling them Traitors to Christ deceivers, thiefs, liars, raveners, oppressors, lovers of pleasures, fleshly hypocrites, cursed tyrants, and execrable Antichrists 1429. Ex destructorio vitiorum part 6. cap. 30. & alibi saepius. 32 john Felton, Fellow of Magdalen College in Oxford, taught the Gospel purely, and much against the pope's pride and tyranny. 1440. Leland in Catalogo virorum illustrium. Bale cent. 8. cap. 3. 33 Reginold Paine or Peacock, of Oriel College in Oxford, made B. first of Asaph, then of Cicester, taught at Paul's Cross, many things against the Church-abuses of the time: and that the use of the Sacraments (such as was then used) was worse than the use of the law of Nature: that Bishops sinned in buying their admission of the pope of Rome, that no man was bound to believe, or to be subject to the Church of Rome's determination, that the begging of Friars was idle and impious, that it was not necessary to salvation to believe that Christ's body was materially in the Sacrament. And many other things against the unsoundness of the Papacy: Yea, madness contra Papatus insaniam. At last he was condemned of heresy by the slaves of the popish Bishops, 1457. Bale cent. 8. cap. 19 ex Thomae Gascoigni Dictionario Theologico. 34 john Capgrave, Doctor of Diunity in Oxford, complained much of the impious tyranny of the prelate's, and priests hirelings, exposing their sheep to the Wolves, seeking their wool and milk, but not their souls, etc. 1460. Bale cent. 8. cap. 1. 35 Henry Parker, Fellow of All-Soules College in Oxford, preached at Paul's Cross, against the pride, bravery, and ambition of Prelates, so flat contrary to Christ's poverty and humility. And at the people's entreaty, he wrote and published his Doctrine to the great shame of the Prelates. For which, he endured long imprisonment and want, 1470. Leland in Catalogo virorum illustrium. Bale cent. 8 cap. 29. These few (for a taste) I give you, excerpted out of a great number, which that one famous University of Oxford afforded. Whereof you may read more plentifully in Master powel's Preface alleged. To search and allege the Records of that other famous University of Cambridge, and the rest of England, would not be fruitless, but (I hope) to you needless. Antiquus. This is full enough, so many learned men, Preachers, Doctors, Bishops, and Worthies of all sorts, out of one University, with the danger of their state, honour, liberty, and life, setting themselves publicly against the corruptions crept into the Church, must needs argue the corruptions to be great, public, and necessary to be reform; and I am fully satisfied that it was so. But happily this Reformation might have been performed, without such a breach, rent, schism, and scandal, as you Protestants have made by your departing from that ancient famous Church of Rome. §. 16. Antiquissimus. Oh sir, you must know that this Reformation was sought for, even at the Pope's hands, with great humility and earnestness, both by Luther himself at the first, and also by many other learned men, This appeareth by 〈◊〉 Commencaries. History of ●he Council of ●r●●. Onuph●●●. S●rius. Thua●●us, and oath r Histories of those times. States, and Princes; yea, by the Emperor himself with much instance. And Pope A●rian the sixth was well inclined thereunto, confessing ingenuously, that the Church was mightily overrun w●th corruptions. For reformation whereof, diverse conferences were appointed in Germany, (as not only our Sleidan, but your Surius and Thun●nus report.) And Pope Clement the seventh, promised Reformation to the Emperor Ch●rles the fift: and three Cardinals (Caie●●●, Pole, and Contarene,) were deputed to give advice for this Reformation After many delays, again, Anno 1537. History of the Council of ●rent. Pope Paul the third, appointed four Cardinals and five other Prelates to consider the demands of the Protestants, and to collect the abuses of the Church and Court of Rome, and to device Remedies to correct them. And of these abuses they gathered great numbers (which are set down at large in the twelfth book of Sleidan's Commentaries.) But all this came to nothing. For when upon due examination, the Cardinals found many things too nearly, touching the quick, the Reformation thereof would uncurably wound the Sea of Rome, overthrow and undo the greatness of their wealth and worldly estate, and when they consulted deeply thereof with the Pope; See D. W●ite against ●●●er. pag. 100L, 1●7. there followed a conclusion, and a plot quite contrary. In regard of the principal things, That nothing should be reform, but all should be justified, since a thorough-reformation would spoil them, and a halfe-reformation would not content the Protestants; and yet would give the world occasion to think. They might err in many things if they reform some. Now therefore the proceeding must be changed. At first many of their Divines opposing Luther, laboured to prove all their Doctrines, Ceremonies and Government by the Scriptures: now they find it cannot be. Therefore the Scriptures must be cried down, disgraced disabled, as ambiguous, and insufficient to teach and guide the Church. And the Church (to wit, their own only Church of Rome) must be exalted above the Scriptures. That Church must give authority to the Scriptures, yea, and sense also, so that no sense of the Scripture shall be received, but that which that Church alloweth. For that Church only cannot err: See B. And●ewe● a● Ap●lo●●am resp●●●● pag. 259 and therefore they that admit the Scriptures to be the only judges and Rules of Doctrine and Discipline, are bad Divines, little better than Heretics, & Enemies to the Church. From hence came those base speeches from their Doctors, Eckius. Hosius contra 〈◊〉 lib. 3. p●g. 148. 〈◊〉 s●●g●●●us. That the Scripture hath no authority but from the Church: Hosius, No more force than Aesop's Fables, without authority from the Church: Pighius, the Scripture is of itself but a Nose of Wax, which may be writhe every way. Costerus compares it to a sheath, Costeranchir, d● sa●●a script. cap. 1. §. huius script. pa 44. B llar. de verbo D●i l●b. 4. c●p. 9 in ●alce. Concil. Trid. sess. 4. Pighius controv, 3. pag 92 & Hi●●arch. epist nunc. Mulhus. disp. 2. de fide pa. 21. See D. White against Vish●r. pag 92. admitting any Dagger, Wooden or Leaden. The jesuite Salmeron saith, Tradition is the sure rule of Faith, by which the Scriptures are to be tried. And Bellarmine saith the best way to try which be true traditions, which be false, is the authority of the Church of Rome. So that now (to speak in their Dialect, or meaning.) The Church of Rome is the Queen, and the Scripture her slave. That Church hath now two servants, of equal authority, Scripture and Tradition: and therefore that Church's Council of Trent saith, Scripturas— & Traditiones, Ecclesiae— pari pietatis aspect● ac reverentiae suscipit, & veneratur. We receive the Scriptures and Traditions of the Church, with equal affection and reverence. Nay, no great matter what the Scripture saith, for their Tradition must interpret it. If the Scripture say, Drink ye all of this (Matth. 26 27) their Tradition saith, not all, but the Clergy only: and not all the Clergy, but he that ministereth it only. So what their Priests teach, must be rece●ued and obeyed, whether out of Scripture or Tradition. Tolet. casuum conscientiae l b 4. cap. 3. p ●53. Cardinal Tolet saith, The people may merit are God's hand in believing an Heresy, if their Teachers propound it, for their obedience is meritorious. And Stapleton, They must not regard quid, but quis, not what is the matter, but who is the man that delivers it. If a Priest therefore teach it, (be it true, be it false) take it as God's Oracle. 2 Thess. 2.4. What can Antichrist do more, when he sits in the Temple of God, as God? exalts himself above God? but disgrace God's Word, set up his own? make God's Word speak what he list? both it and the sense of it shall receive authority from him? His Laws, his judgement, his Agents shall be received without examination. And the holy Word of God, which should be the rule of all true faith and good actions, shall lose his place of leading, and follow the Pope's fancy? By these grounds, means, and shifts, all the seeking for reformation at the Popes and Romish Prelates hands was utterly avoided. And the Roman Church, (as now it stands) is the multitude of such only as magnify, admire, and adore, the plenitude of Papal power and infallibility of judgement: and are so fare from Reformation of errors, and corruptions formerly cried against, and by many of themselves confessed; that they decree them now to be good, impose them now as De fide points of faith, and doctrines of the Church: yea, and persecute with curses, fire and sword, the discoverers, reprovers, and reformers thereof. So that there was no possibility left to good and godly Princes and States, and to truehearted godly learned men, but either against their knowledge and conscience to live slaves to the unsupportable tyranny and corruptions of the Pope, or else to reform these abuses every one in their own Countries: and if the whole field of the Church could not be purged and dressed, yet every one to weed out of their own Lan●s and Furlongs, the Tares and filth that choked the good Corne. Thus I have showed you, that errors and corruptions had crept into the once pure and famous Church of Rome: and that they were noted and cried out upon by many Historians, Learned men Bishops Doctors Princes and People: and Reformation sought for, many Ages before it could he performed: And that neither Luther, nor any other learned men, nor Princes ever intended to erect a new Church: but by reforming of the Abuses crept in, to reduce the Church to her ancient purity. Whereupon the Protestant Churches are truly called, The Reformed Churches. Antiquus. Well sir, show me now the true difference betwixt your new reformed Churches, and the Church of Rome, as now it is. How fare they agree, and wherein they differ, in some principal points. Antiquissimus. I will, and the rather because some railing Rabsaches of your side, impudently say and print, that [The Protestants have no Faith, no Hope, A nameless Author (be like ashamed to set to his name) beginning his book with these words, The Protestants have no Faith, etc. no Charity, no Repentance, no justification no Church, no Altar, no Sacrifice, no Priest, no Religion, no Christ,] I hope to make it apparent, that we hold all the points of Faith, necessary and sufficient to good life on earth, and salvation in heaven: and that you confess we hold them truly; because you hold the same: and we only refuse your later, needless, and unsound additions there unto. CHAP. 5. The principal points of Doctrine, wherein the Romish and the Reformed Churches agree, and wherein they differ. Protestants refuse the pope's earthly Kingdom, and maintain Christ's heavenly. 1 A note of the chief-points of Christian Doctrine, wherein the Protestants and Romanists fully agree, showing also the Romish additions thereunto. 2 The Protestants doctrine in general, justified by Cardinal Contarene, Cardinal Campeggio, and our Liturgy by Pope Pius 4. 3 But the Pope's reach further, at an earthly Church-kingdome: and fourthly challenge a supremacy over all Christians and Churches in the world. 5 More specially over the Clergy, exempting them from being subjects to Princes. 6 Yea, over all Christian princes and their states: to depose, dispose, and transpose them: and to absolve subjects from their allegiance, to rebel, etc. 7 To dissolve Oaths, Bonds, and Leagues. 8 To give dispensations to contract or dissolve Matrimony. 9 And other dispensations and exemptions from Laws. §. 1. Antiquissimus. 1 We believe a Articles of the year 1562 art. 1. one true God, invisible, incorporeal, immortal, infinite in wisdom, power, & goodness; maker, preserver, and governor of all things: and that in the unity of this Godhead, there be 3 persons of one substance, coequal in wisdom, goodness, power, eternity; the Father the Son, and the Holy Ghost: You believe the same: But your exalting and adoring the Blessed Virgin (whom we honour and reverence so fare as we may any the most excellent creature) in such sort as you entitle her a Goddess b L●…si●…s oft●…n ●…al●…er D am, a 〈◊〉 si●, in his 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 where the 〈…〉 and ●…tice. , Queen of Heaven c So Hortul. a●i ae 117. b such was t●e heresy o● the C●ll● d●●●s. Vpip ●an, ●er. 79. and of the world d ●o Hort anime 154 b ; and make the like prayers to her as you do to God e You call her so●ne Lo●d; her, Lady: him Saviour, her saluatrix: him Mediator, her Mediatresse: him King, h●r Qu●en●: him God, her Goddess: As appears in many of your prayers as sa●●● R●g●●●, ●●ter misericordiae, vita, dulcedo, salve. And consolatio desolator●m, via e●●antium, s●●as o●●●m in te sperantium. In Offi●io B. Mariae Reformato, & iussu Fij 5. edito. And in the Lady's Psalter (wherein the words of honour and prayers are turned from God to h●r, in places innumerable:) Psal. 50. mis●rere mei domina,— mundane ab ●●●ibus iniquitatibus me●s, ess●nde gratiam tuam super me. Psal. 89. Domina resugium fa●ta es no●●s in cunc●● n●cessitatibus nostris, Psal. 2. protegat nos dextra tua, matter dei. , even with authority and command over her Son f As their own Cassander confesseth (consult, art. 21.) they make Christ reigning in heaven, yet subject to his Mot●er. Monstra te esse Matrem. In B●evi●r. Rom. & officio B. Mariae reformat. And Matris i●●e impe●a Redemptori. Missal. Parisiens. D●reus to Whitaker, fol. 352. saith, This is not against Religion. , and as a partaker of the government of his Kingdom g They assign justice to Christ, and Mercy to the Virgin: As Gabri●●l B●e● (in exposit. Cano●. Missae lect. 80.) saith Confu●imus primò ad b atissimam Virgin●m caelorum reginam, cui Rex Regum, Pater caelestis, dimidium ●egni sui dedit, & post Pater cael●stis, cum h●beat institiam & misericordiam, tanq●am potio●a regni sui bona; iustiti● sib● retenta, misericordiam Matri Virgini concessit. The like is written by many other of their learned men, (viri celebr●s, saith Cassander, consult. art. 21.) The great learned jesuit Gregorius de Valentia often sets Christ after his mother thus, Glori● deo, & B Virg●n● Mari● Do●inae nostiae, Item jesus Christo. At the end of his Treatises, De satisfact De Jdo olat. De differ. no●ae legis. De Indulgentijs, and others. : which wants not much of making a Quaternity of the most glorious individual and incommunicable Trinity h See more of this in P. Ma●lius Defence of our late learned King james his book against the answer of Coss●tean art. 7. p. 165. & s●q. And in B. Andrew's his answer to Bellarmine, about the same K. james his book, ad c 8. p 174. etc. And in B. Downam, De Antichristo. lib. 3. cap. 8. § 2, 3, 4. & lib. 5. cap 2. §. 2, 3, 4, 5. And in Bishop Morto●. Apolog. Cath. tomo. 1. cap 68 pag. 202. and Protestants appeal l●b. 2. cap. 12. sect. 10 and relation of Religion in the West pag. 3 Rainolds & ●art. cap. 8. divis. 2. pag. 474, 475. And it is abundantly noted in most of our Protestants Books. ; This is a corrupt doctrine and practise crept into the Church we may not admit. 2 We believe the Canonical Scriptures (reckoned up in the sixth Article of the year 1562.) to be the undoubted Word of God written by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, guiding the minds and pens of the holy Writers, absolutely free from all error. You confess the same Concil. Trident. sess. 4. . But you add the Apocryphal books, and make them also Canonical k Ibid. Si quis libros— baruch Eccl●siastici, Sapientiae, Iu●i●h, Tobiae, Duoru● Maccab●orum, Danielis integros libros cum omnibus suis pa●●b●s, pro●t in vulgata editione habentur, prosacris & Canon c● non su●cepent, Anathema sit. , contrary to Antiquity l For, to the jews were committed the Oracles of God (Canonical Scriptures) to be kept, Rom. 3.2. but they n●uer acknowledged the Apocryphal books, so saith josephus lib. 1. contra Appion. See Euseb hist. lib. 8. cap. 10. And Bellarmine h●mselfe grants it. lib. 3. ●e eccle. milit cap. ●0. init●o. B. Andrew's answering Bellarmine's Apology (concerning King james his Monitory Preface) cap. 7. pag. 15. gives us ten very ancient Fathers, reckoning the Cannon of Scripture as we do: 1 Melito Sardensis in Euseb. 4.26. 2 Origenes 3. 25. 7 in Ios●a. 3 Athanasi●s in Synops. 4 Hilarius prolog in Psal. 5 Epiphanius haere●. 8. 6 Cyrill●s Cat●ch, 7 Nazianzen de ver. & goe. scrip. lib. 8 Amphilochius ad Saleucum. 9 Hieronymus in prolog. Gal●●to. 10 R●ffi●us in expos. Symboli. D. Field reckons more l●b. 4. cap. 23 see more cap 4. sect. 14. The Laodicean Council excludes the Apocrypha, the Carthaginian Council receives them; & both these were confirmed in the sixth general Council; how hangs this together? thus: The Lodicean spoke of the Canon of faith, the Carthaginian of the Canon of good manners: to both which the sixth Council subscribed in that sense, and we to it. See thi● Whole Controversy thoroughly handled by B. Morton, Apologiae Catholicae part. 2. lib. 1. sex primis captibus. Also in his Protestants Appeal, lib. 4. cap. 18. and by D. Whit●●●es Disp. de sacra scripura quaest. 1. And by D. Field of the Church Book. 4. chapt. 23, 24. . 3 We believe the original Hebrew of the Old Testament, and the Gre●●e of the New to be authentical and of undoubted authority, your side hath heretofore held the contrary, depraving the Hebrew and Greek now extant, as intolerably corrupted by jews and Heretics: yet now your best m ●hu● Bellarmine de ver●o dei lib. 2. cap. 2. in sine Si●tus Senens●s Bibl●oth. lib. 3. pa●. 153. & lib. 8. pag. 630 Ribera com●n Hoscam. cap. 9 na. 20. Acosta 2. lib. de Christo Revelat. cap. 16. And of the Greek of the new Sixtus Se●ens. Bibl. lib. 7 pag. 58. See D. Field. Church. lib. 4 cap. 28. 29. & B. Morton. App●al. lib. 4. cap. 18. Sect. 3. learned men come home to us, and hold them pure from such corruptions, affirming, that though some slips of Printers or Writers may be found in letters or words, yet they hurt not the sense, nor derogate from their authority. Thus you justify us. But n This your Agorias (a choice man, to deliver the Roman Catholic Tenets) showeth Institutionum lib. 8. cap. 3. § 3. &. 4. where the Greek or Hebrew now extant (saith he) differeth from the sense of the vulgar Latin, that Latin Edition shall be to us the Canoninall Scripture, Post habito c●ntrario sensu Hebr●aicae vel Graec●● lectionis. And whereas many of their own side (since the Council of Trent) have found diverse faults and errors in the Latin (as Vega, Sixt●s Senensis, Canus, Tayva, L●ndanus, etc.) Yet Azorius excuseth the matter, saying, They are not errors against faith and good manners: but only in some places (clariùs, si●nificantiùs, proprius. & latin●ùs, reddi potuerint: non tamen verius, aut simpliciter certiùs) things might more clearly, significantly, properly, and in better Latin have been delivered, but not more t●●ely, or simply, more certainly. Thus saith Azorius, but our Bishop Morton showeth them many great intolerable corruptions concerning Faith and Manners, and in matters in Controversy, Apol Cathol. pa●t. 2. lib. 1. cap. 11, 12, 13. and in his Prot. Appeal. lib 4. cap. 18. § 3. As also many other Protestant Writers do. But were in true that Azorius saith, his reason might authorise a translation to be profitable and comfortable to the people to read (in any tongue which they understand) but cannot make a Translation more authentical than the original, or not liable to be examined and corrected by the Original. That were to prefer men's conceit before Gods most absolute truth, and is no better than impiety. See Rainolds and Hart confer. chap. 6. divis. 2. pag. 244. etc. D. Whitakers. D. Field. Church. Book 4. chap 25, 26. specially 27. whereas you make your vulgar Latin authentical also, and of greater authority than the Greek and Hebrew, where they differ from it: we must needs forsake you. 4 We make the written word of God, Artic. 6. 1562. the ground of our faith: and hold nothing necessary to be believed to salvation, but what is there either delivered in express words, or thence deducted by necessary consequence. Your own learned men confess this course to be good o Bellar. de justif. lib. 3 cap. 8. §. Prima ratio: non potest aliquid certum esse certitudine fi●ei, nisi aut immediatè continetur in verbo dei, aut ex verbo dei per evidentem consequentiam deducatur. Fides enim non est, nisi verbi dei authoritate ●itatur. Ne●ue de hoc principio vel Catholici, vel Haeretici ibitant. Faber Stapa●ensis, In his Preface to the Evangelists (which Preface now the Roman Doctors appoint to be left out in the new Prints, by their Indices Expurgatorij) saith thus: The Scripture sufficeth and is the only rule of eternal life, whatsoever agrees not to it, is not so necessary as superfluous. The Primitive Church knew no other rule but the Gospel, no other scope but Christ, no other worship than was due to the Individual Trinity. I would to God the form of believing were fetched from the Primitive Church. Thus saith Sta●pulensis. . By which rule (justified by our Adversaries) we conclude that the holy Church of God need not receive or believe any of those things following: to wit Purgatory, Invocation of Saints departed, worshipping of Images, Auricular confession, the Pope's pardons, Transubstantiation the Mass to be truly and properly a propitiatory sacrifice, to be offered both for the quick and the dead: the Sacrament without Communicants, and Communion under one kind (without the Cup) to be sufficient for Lay people: reservation of the Sacrament and elevation thereof, to be worshipped: and circumgestation in Procession, for pomp and adoration: Matrimony, and extreme Unction, to be properly Sacraments of the New Testament, and to confer grace: single life necessary to be imposed upon the Clergy: All which and more your jesuite Azorius reckons for Traditions unwritten p Azorius Institutionum lib 8. cap. 4. §. 3. & seq. . Also that the Church of Rome is head of all church's, and that all Christians must fetch their Faith, their Orders, and jurisdiction from it: that the Bishop thereof cannot err in matters of faith, or interpreting the Scriptures. See more of this point, Rainold & Hart confer chap. 5. division 1. pag. 184 etc. And chap. 8. divis. 1. pag. 462. etc. The Scriptures teach no such thing: and therefore we need not believe it. 5 We (being constant to the former rule, for the sufficiency of the Scriptures, in matters of faith and good life) further admit of some kind of Trad tions: to wit, first Doctrinal traditions agreeing with the Scriptures, or thence truly deducted q Many Fathers call the whole Word of God (which by some holy men guided by God's Spirit was let down in writing: and by them also & others delivered to the people by lively voice) A tradition which the Church must preserus: and also the form of wholesome words, (Creeds, Catechisms &c.) thence deducted. 2 Tim. 1.13. Rom. 6 17. See Rain. & Hart. c. 8. d. 1. p 466, 467. So the baptism of Infants, if not commanded in plain words, yet plainly deducted from Scripture, Gen. 17.12, 13. Col. 2.11, 1●, Act. 2.38, 39 Luke 18.16. Mar. 10.16. Mat. 19.14. & 18, 14. 1 Cor. 7.14. Mat. 28.19. The doctrine of the Trinity, the equality of three Divine persons in one substance, and the distinction by incommunicable proprieties. Gen. 1.1, 26. Mat. 3.16. job. 1.32. Mat. 17 5 & 28.29 2. Cor. 13.13. 1 Ilb. 5.7. Psal. 2.7. Heb. ●. 3, 5. & 7.3. Col. 1.15. The proceeding of the holy G●ost from the Father and the Son, as from one beginning, and one spiration, from all eternity, joh. 14.26. & 15.26. & 16.13, 14. Rom. 8.9. . Secondly, ritual traditions, for order and decency, left to the disposition of the Church, being not of Divine, but of positive and humane right r 1 Cor. 14.40. & 11.2. Acts 15 ●0. So they be not childish or trifling: nor accounted parts of God's worship: nor with opinion of merit: nor burdensome for their multitude s Of the multitude S. Augustine complained in his time. Epist. 119. ad ●anuar. c. 19 See D. Ram. & Hart c. 8. div. 4. p. 599. & seq. . The first of these no man allows and commends more than we: and the second kind we retain and use with reverence, such as are profitable and comely in our times and countries without condemning other Churches differing from ours in such matters: as we find Saint Ambrose and Saint Augustine did. Aug. Epist. 188. But a third kind of Traditions obtruded for Articles of Religion, grounds of Faith, and part of God's worship, neither contained expressly in God's word, nor thence deducted by any sound inference: and yet received (by the Council of Trent, Sess 4.) with the same authority and reverence that the holy Scriptures are received: those we gainsay, as things derogating to the verity, sufficiency, and perfection of the Scriptures. And herein your Romish Writers deal fraudulenly against us, and deceive the world; for they allege the Father's speaking of the first kind of Traditions, as if they spoke of all: whereas indeed they writ very strongly and sharply against this third kind, which we refuse. Bishop Usher in his book against the Irish jesuite, pag. 36. & seq. allegeth a whole jury of ancient Fathers, testifying the sufficiency of the Scriptures, for matters of Faith: Tertullian, Origen, Hippolytus the Martyr, Athanasius, Ambrose, Hilary, Basil, Gregory Nissen, Jerom, Augustine, Cyril, Theodoret. So that the Traditions which they urge, we allow, and those that we deny they writ sharply against. The Fathers (say your Romish) are not of the Protestants Church, because they urge Traditions: but we say more truly; The Fathers are not of the Romish Church, because they teach, the Scripture is sufficient, and needs no Traditions to supply their defect, as the Romish teach. When Bellarmine and your other Doctors are pressed with the authority of the Fathers, they are compelled to yield unto us the sufficiency of the Scriptures, (as I alleged, artic. 4.) but (observe their unconstancy) lest they should overthrew thereby the manifold doctrines held by their Church, that have no ground in the Scriptures; they are fain to maintain also unwritten Traditions to be the grounds of those Doctrines. See more of this point in Mr. Perkins Reformed Catholic, the 7 point. B. Morton. Apol. Cathol. part. 2. lib. 1. cap. 32. & seq. And Protestants Appeal. lib. 2. cap. 25. D. Field, of the Church Book. B. Usher in his answer to the Irish jesuite. Rainolds and Hart confer. chap. 5. division 1. pag. 190. 6 We receive and believe also, the three Creeds, The Apostles, the Nicene, and that of Athanasius t These are in our Books of public prayer, and book of Articles of anno 1562 art. 8 and subscribed unto by all Ministers. : and the four general Counsels of the Primitive Church: as good forms of true Christian Doctrine, deductions and explications of Scripture u Acknowleeged by King james, in his Praemoniti●n to all Christian Monar●s, p. 35. and by our Acts of Parliament. . You receive the same also: but you add a thirteenth article, decreed to be an article of Faith, thirteen hundred years after Christ, by a thirteenth Apostle, Pope Boniface the eight x Boniface 8. lived an. 13●●. his Decree runs thus: Subesse Romano Pont●fici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, desinimus & pronunciamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis. Thus Boniface 8 in extrauag. de majoritate & obedientia. cap. unam santa●. . That it is necessary to salvation to be subject to the Bishop of Rome, which is neither in the Scriptures, ancient Creeds, nor ancient Fathers, nor can be thence deducted. And you have further also, dately added 12 new Articles by the authority of Pope Pius 4. (anno 1564) raised out of the Council of Trent, and added to the Nicene Creed, to be received with oath, as the true Catholic Faith, to be believed by as many as shall be saved y In ●ulla juramenti de prosess. fidei. These 12 new Articles you may see also in the Epistle Dedicatory to B. jewels works in every Church. In Onuphrius (added to Platina) in vita Pij 4. . 7 We believe that the true God is to be worshipped in Spirit and Truth, and according as himself hath prescribed: and you yield that therein we do well: but you add, that he may be analogically & relatively worshipped by Images, and by other Doctrines devised by Men, which are not commanded, but sharply reproved by the Scriptures, Exod. 20.4, 5. Deut. 4.15, 16. Mat. 15.9. Mar. 7 3, 4.7. Col. 2.18, 22, 23. God grant we may serve him as himself hath prescribed, and then we shall be sure to be happy enough. See D. Hall, Roma irreconciliabilis sect. 21. 8 We believe we ought to pray with fervency and sincerity of heart, with a purpose to forsake all sin, and to serve God truly, and with faith and hope to be heard: you believe so also; but you add, we may pray in an unknown tongue, without understanding sense, or feeling what we say, with many repetitions, and by number (upon Beads) without weight: and that such prayers are satisfactory for sin, and meritorious of grace. You do not say (I hope) we ough to pray in a tongue unknown: but we may do it. So you condemn not our custom, (lest you condemn Saint Paul also, 1 Cor, 14.15. etc.) but only excuse your own. 9 We believe, we ought to pray unto God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: you yield it to be good; but you add (not that we are commanded, but) that we may also pray unto Angels and Saints deceased. But surely the worship and invocation of Angels is forbidden by the Council of Laodicaea: much more of Saints. For they that urged the worship of Angels, alleged, that for our better access unto God, we we must use the intercession of Angels (as Gods Courtiers and Attendants) and this is your reason for your prayers unto Saints. The Council therefore that forbiddeth the one, implieth the prohibition of the other. See more of this in Bishop morton's Protestant's Appeal. lib. 2. cap. 12. section 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, &c, and compendiously, s●ct. 13. 10 We believe that our Lord ●esus Christ is our Mediator, both of Redemption and intercession. You grant this to be true; but you add unto him Angels and Saints, upon whose intercession and merits, you also in part rely. See B. Morton, ib. lib. 2. cap. 12. specially, sect. 10, 11, 12, 13. Perk. ●esor. Cath. points. 15. 11 We believe that the glorified Saints bear most loving ●ffection to the Saints living on earth, and pray in general for the Church Militant. You believe so to; but you add that they hear men's prayers made unto them, pray for particular men, and know their wants (which hearing and knowledge, we say, is proper to God alone.) But your greatest Clerks cannot determine how the Saints know our hearts and prayers: whether by hearing or seeing, or presence every where, or by Gods relating or reue●ling men's prayers and needs unto them. All which ways some of your Doctors hold as probable, or possible: and others deny and and confute them as untrue. Of this, see Bishop Morton. Appeal lib. 2. cap. 12. sect. 5. and lib. 5. cap. 2 sect. 2. Perkins reformed Catholic point. 14. 12 We honour Gods Saints deceased, as the Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, and other holy s●ruants of God: both by reverend memorial of them praises to God for them, and for his benefits to the Church by them, and by imitation of their virtues Their true Relics (virtues, books, good work●s, and examples) we respect with reverence. And their bodily Relics we despise not, but reverently keep them, if we may without offence. This you like well, but whereas you further worship the Saints, the●r Images, or Relics, with kneeling, Invocation, dedication of Churches, and Festival days and Pilgrimages to their Shrines or Relics, you step too fare into superstition and Idolatry. See B. Mortons' Appeal. lib. 5 cap. 2. sect. 3 4, 5. and cap. 3. sect. Doctor Hall. Roma irreconciliabilis section 20. and 21. 13 We believe t●at man is justified by the merits and passion of our Saviour jesus Christ: Antic. 11. 1562. you believe so too; but you a●de, that he must be further justified by his own merits or satisfactions. Of justification, and of Merits, see a large discourse afterwards. 14 We believe also, that as Christ's most perfect righteousness is most necessary to be imputed unto us for our justification: so our own inherent righteousness, wrought in us by God's Spirit, for sanctification of life, is necessary to salvation: and that he is no good Christian that shows not his true conversion by the fruits of a good life. You cannot mislike this. And yet you charge us that we open a gate to all licentiousness of life because we teach that we are not justified by our own good works (which are fare short of perfection) but by Christ's righteousness imputed unto us, which alone is most perfect and able to satisfy God's justice and his Law We urge good works as much as you, as absolute necessary effects of justifying grace, but not causes thereof: saying with S. Bernard, They are Via regni, non causa regnandi, The way whereby we must walk to felicity, (or else we shall never come to it) but not the meritorious cause of felicity. 15 Yea, we urge good works more than you do. We teach, that in true conversion, a man must be wounded in his conscience by the sense of h●s sins, his contrition must be compungent and v●hement, bruising, breaking renting the heart, and feeling the throws (as a woman labouring of Child) b●fore the new creature be brought forth, or Christ truly form in him. It is not done without bitterness of the soul, without study, care, indignation r●u●nge (2 Cor. 7 11.) But as some Infants are b●●ne with l●sse pain to the Mother, and some with more: so may the new man be regenerated in some with more, in some with less anxiety of travel. But surely grace is not infused into the heart of any sinner except there be at least so great affliction of spirit for sin foregoing that he cannot but feel it; otherwise, he might make a confession without contrition. Thus we urge sinners to a true feeling and sorrow for their sin. And for scandalous faults, we urge open sinners to open acknowledgement, satisfaction of the Church, and to ●ndure the censures thereof: and all men to practise the actions of holy devotion, the better to humble and dispose themselves to be more capable of reconciliation with God: and to promise and vow amendment of life, and set down with themselves the best fitting courses for it. See D. Francis White Orthodox Faith. p. 16. We teach, though they must be justified by Christ's merits only, applied and made theirs by faith: yet that faith must be justified to be true, sound, and lively, by the fruits thereof. For whensoever God forgiveth sin, he giveth grace also to resist and mortify sin. See hooker's Discourse of justification, §. 21. At the first instant, when we are converted and justified, we receive the spirit of Adoption, we are made members of Christ, and our bodies temples of the Holy Ghost: even than we receive habitual righteousness, wherewith our souls are inwardly endued: and if we live, that habitual, will bring forth actual righteousness upon all occasions, mortifying sin, and beatifying all the parts and actions of our life. All these are given together in the root, we receive them all at once, 1 Cor. 6.11. Gal. 6.15. col. 3.10. eph. 4.4.23. 2 Cor. 4.16. psal. 51.10, hebr. 9.14. 1 pet. 2.9. See P●rkins Refor. Cath point. 21 The manifold uses of good works. they are inseparable, and will show their comforts inwardly in our hearts, and their fruits outwardly in our lives; which if a man do not find in himself, he can have no hope of salvation, 1 Cor. 6.9, 10. 1 john 3.8. & 1.6. Ezek. 18 13, 21, 22. Therefore we urge mortification of sin, denying our lusts and affections, and a holy resolution to serve God in all soundness pureness, integrity, and sincerity of heart, and a true care to keep all God's Commandments, not in act only, but in heart too, without swerving at all under any colour, dispensation, interpretation or whatsoever. We think, your extenuating of some sins, calling them venial, and extolling men's satisfactions more than themselves need, that they may be applied by indulgences to them that need, and the slight pennances imposed by your Priests, and reciting a few prayers that have pardons annexed to them, or pilgrims to some Saints Images or Relics (be they true or false) and many other your humane devices, are the very stranglers of true penance, mortification of sin, and care of good life. 16 We exhort unto, and urge such good works as God hath prescribed, commanded, and promised rewards unto; both of holiness towards God, subjection to our Magistrates, justice to men, sobriety and cleanness in ourselves, and works of mercy to them that need, etc. You do not, you cannot mislike this: but whereas you add other works out of your own brains, which God never commanded, (nay, which cross Gods Commandments, * A man may forsake parents to become a Christian, Mat. 10.37. ergo to become a Monk. So Bellarmine r●asoneth lib. 2 de monachis cap. 36. contrary to the Council of Gangrene cap. 16. that children may forsake their duty to Parents for vows of devised Religion; subjects may rebel against their Princes, yea depose and murder them at the Pope's appointment, and do many such things:) those we cannot but detest and abhor. 17 We believe that howsoever man hath power in natural, moral, civil, Artic. 10. 1562. M Perkins Reform Cath. point. 1. and Augus●in. confess. art. 18. B●llar. teacheth the same, De ●ra & lib. a●●. lib. 4 cap. 4 & seq. & lib. 5. cap. 14. & seq. & lib. 6. cap. 1. etc. and also outward Ecclesiastical actions, to do them, or not to do them, except God restrain him: yet he hath no freewill, power, or ability to convert himself truly to godliness, to believe, or to perform, or will any mere spiritual, inward, or holy actions, pleasing God, until God first by his grace, move his heart to will, and give him ability to perform them, Phil. 2.13. Your best learned men believe and teach so also. But you have many other idle questions, needless, yet hurtful to the Church, which your Cassander wisheth were abolished. Cassander consult: in articulo 18. Of this point of Freewill, see a fuller discourse afterwards, lib. 3. Of Freewill. Hebr. 13.6. psal. 19.11. pro 11.18. hebr. 6.10. mat. 10.41, 42. Bellarmine confesseth this to be our doctrine, lib. 5. the iustif. cap. 1. So Bellarmine de justif. lib. 5. cap. 17. § jam. vero. and Rhemists upon 2 tim. 4.8. and upon hebr. 6.10. 18 We believe that the good works of a justified person, are acceptable to the Lord, please him are rewarded of him, and procure many excellent blessings from him. This you believe also, but whereas you add, that that they do properly and condignly merit eternal life, as an equal recompense and reward: you teach contrary to the Scriptures, and to the ancient Fathers, and to many of your own men. Of this point also see hereafter, lib. 3. Of Merit. 19 We believe that our Lord hath instituted two Sacraments in his Church, as seals of his Covenant with his people, and Conduits of justifying grace; to wit, Baptism, and his holy Supper. You believe the same but you add five other, Matrimony, Penance, Ordination, We find two mentioned by the Fathers as properly called Sacraments Aug. epist. 118. & lib. 3 de doctrina Christiana. cap. 8. Ambros. lib. de Sacra●entis. justin. Martyr. Apolog. 2. Tertul lib. 4. contra Marc. cap. 34. Cyril. Cateches. See Kemnit. examen. part 2. desacram. But of things called Sacraments unproperly they speak of more than seven. But this is a novelty, not known, or not observed in the Church of more than a thousand years: and not imposed in the Church of Rome to be necessarily believed but very lately. See more of this in B. Mortons' appeal, lib. 2. cap. 26. sect. 4, 5. Confirmation, and Extreme Unction. Of which also we acknowledge the Institution and use, only we deny them the name and the nature of Sacraments. Artic. 25. 1562. & art. 27, 28. Perk. resorm. Cath. point. 19 20 We believe that God hath so annexed grace unto the Sacraments, that all well prepared receivers do participate the justifying and sanctifying grace, as well as the outward Elements. You believe so too; but you add, that Sacraments have this grace, Ex opere operato. A tic. 29. 1562. ●1 We believe that in our Lor●s supper, the worthy Communicant really partaketh Christ's Body and Blood. You believe the same, we only differ in the manner how; we say spiritually with his soul: you say, with his mouth and stomach, the substance of the Bread and Wine, being (you say) transubstantiated into the body and blood of Christ. So that you also believe that impious Men and Atheists, yea, Cats, Dogs, and Mice, eating the bread, do eat the very body of Christ. Our manner is enough for salvation, and agreeable to antiquity: yours is a novelty, and crosseth the analogy of faith. Of this point see a large discourse hereafter, lib. 3. cap. Of the Eucharist. 22 We believe there are two places prepared for souls departed out of this life, Heaven for the blessed, Perkins Reformed Catholic. point. 17. of Purgatory. Hell for the damned. You believe so likewise, but you add other places more, Purgatory, Limbus patrum, and Limbus pucrorum. Of this point see more hereafter, lib. 3. cap. Of Purgatory, etc. 23 We believe that jesus Christ hath satisfied for our sins, and redeemed us. You believe so also; but you add, Christ hath satisfied only for the eternal punishment, and for sins before Baptism, but that we must satisfy for our following sins, August serm. 13. De verbis dom. Christus suscipiendo poenam, & non suscipiendo culpam & culpam delevit & poenam. See B morton's Appeal lib. 1. cap 2 sect. 23. § 47. & lib. 2. cap. 15. sect. 8, 9, 10. and also for the temporal punishment due to all our sins, either upon earth or in Purgatory. This we account an error against the foundation, making Christ but half a Saviour: and against reason, for he that forgives the fault, forgives the punishment also, in S. Augustine's opinion. 24 We believe that we ought to pray for all the members of Christ's militant Church upon earth: you believe so too; but you add, we ought also to pray for the souls suffering in Purgatory, which was a thing long time unknown to the Church of God. §. 2. These are the principal points of Religion, and the foundation of our church; & by your approbation of them, you grant them all to be true good ancient and Catholic, which may appear also by that which followeth. See history of the Council of Trent. lib. 1. pag. 95. At a Diet in R●tisbon, (anno 1541.) where was present, jasper, Cardinal Contareni, the Pope's Nuncio, Granuel delivered a book of 22 Articles to be considered of, by the Divines of both sides (whereof the chief were chosen by the Emperor to dispute, namely Eckius, Flugius, and Gropperus, Romists, Melancthon, Bucer, and P●storia, Protestants) and upon their debating, some things were approved, and some amended by common consent. They dissented only in five things, and in seventeen they all finally agreed. Ibib. pag. 54.55. Also when the Augustane confession (of the Protestant Princes and Divines) was read at Augspurge (anno 1530) the Pope's Legate, Cardinal Campeggio, said plainly to the Emperor, that the difference (of that doctrine from the Roman) for the most part seemed verbal; and that it imported not much whether one spoke after one manner, or after another; and that for the present there was no cause to make any strict examination of the doctrine: only means should be used that the Protestant should go no further on. See Annals Elizah engl pag 63. and Relation of Religionin the West parts pag. x. 2. 159. And Pope Pius the fourth (anno 1560.) offered to Queen Elizabeth, to allow our whole Book of Common Prayer if she would receive it as from him, and by his authority. And so he might well do, for the book was with great judgement purposely so framed out of the grounds of Religion, wherein both sides agree, that their very Catholics might resort unto it, without scruple or scandal, if Faction more than reason did not sway. The truth is, were it not for other causes, the Controversies of points of Religion might well be compounded betwixt us. For the learned of them know that our doctrine is sufficient to make us true Christi-, ans, both for faith and good life: to make us live holily, righteously, and soberly by God's grace; to become good subjects to our Princes; good neighbours amongst men; good, diligent, and dutiful members of the Commonwealth; painful, peaceable, and blessed people, and blessings to the Country where we live: and to conduct us thorough all necessary, gracious ways and means ordained by God to eternal blessedness. There is no defect in our doctrine to these ends: to promote Christ's Kingdom both of grace and glory, §. 3. Only they know (and we confess) our Doctrine is insufficient to set up an earthly Church-kingdome (instead of Christ's heavenly Kingdom) such as the Pope desireth, over-topping all other Christian Princes and Potentates, and maintained with all worldly wealth, pomp, and glory. Were it the purity of Religion which he desired, (described and received in the best Primitive times of the Church) our Religion would abundantly satisfy him: but this high transcendent supremacy of the Pope, fare beyond those Primitive times, and the wealth of the world to maintain him and his in their greatness, Acts 19.28, 25. is the great Diana of the Romans which they strive for. And these doctrinal controversies are but subordinate means, subtly kept on foot to make the adversaries of his supremacy more odious. For by that craft their wealth is maintained. D. Francis White Orthodox faith. Epist. dedic. Ramolds & Hart confer. cap. 7. dinis. 6, & 7. pag. 367 & seq. Our Doctor Reinolds observeth well, and proveth largely, that this in these latter Ages hath been the Pope: main aim and practise. And men of skill and judgement (who knew the pope's thoroughly and faithfully set forth their lives) have opened this secret and mystery of State, (as it hath been managed, since it grew to majesty) that they mind the propping up of their own Kingdom, while they pretend the worship of Christ: and that in the pope's language, the Church doth signify (not the company of the faithful servants of God, but) the Papacy: that is, the dominion, and princehood of the pope in things both temporal and spiritual. K. james his Remonstrance to Peron. pag. 246. And our late learned and judicious King james saith, The name of the Church serveth in this our corrupt Age, as a cloak to cover a thousand new inventions: and no longer signifies the Assembly of the faithful, or such as believe in jesus Christ according to his Word, but a certain glorious ostentation and temporal Monarchy, whereof the pope (forsooth) is the supreme head. Ibid. pag. 259. And, S. Peter's net is now changed into a casting net or a flew, to fish for all the wealth of most flourishing kingdoms. 1 To this end, consider whether there be more care and policy to maintain the pope's greatness and revenues then to make good Christians. For where good Christians are already (such as the Primitive Christians were) thither the pope's Emissaries come to make them the pope's subjects, and stick not at Treasons, Rebellions, invasions, if they have hope so to effect it. Relation of Religion in the West, pag. 156, 159. 2 Consider, whether all other (though never so profane or wicked, jews, Stews, Turks, Infidels, Heretics, or Atheists) open enemies of Christian Religion, be not suffered more quietly to live in Italy, Rome, and under the pope's nose, than Protestants, whose only great crime is, They are against the pope's usurpations and corruptions Molius defence pag. 464. 3 Consider, if all sins against God and his Word, be not more slightly punished, than offences against the Pope's greatness? In cases of Murder, Treason, Incest, Blasphemy, etc. ordinary Bishops may bind and lose: but the cases of hindering men from going to Rome for pardons, of intrusion into any benefice or office Ecclesiasticail, of purloining any Church goods, or offending the Sea-Apostolicke, etc. those are reserved to the pope only. And the penitentiary tax for falsifying the letters Apostolical, is more than three times so much as the tax for Incest with a man's Mother. 4 Consider, Bellar. de justif. lib. 2. cap. 1. in fine. if they wink not at our doctrine in their own men, as Pighius, the Divines of Colen, Durandus, and hundreds of others, as long as they profess subjection to the pope: in such Catholics our opinions are not heresy: but in us the same opinions are persecuted with fire and sword. 5 Consider, Histor. council. Trent. lib. 3. pag. 293. how kindly they offer to tolerate things otherwise very odious unto them, if men will profess subjection to the pope; as (anno 1548.) Paul the third, sent the Bishops of Verona and Ferentino his Nuncij, into Germany, (than almost lost from him) with faculties to grant unto all persons (Kings, Princes, Ecclesiastical and Regular) that would return to his obedience; absolution from all censures, dispensations for irregularities, or objuration, penance, oaths, perjuries: and to restore them to honour, fame, and dignity: and to licence them to partake the Cup in the Communion, to eat flesh in Lent, and Fasting days, with many other immunities, so fare as might be done in time and place without scandal, etc. So Pius the fourth, Annals Eliz. Engl. pag. 63. Latin. pag. 49. (anno 1560.) offered to Queen Elizabeth, to allow our whole book of Common Prayer, if she would receive it as from him and by his authority. 6 Consider, whether this was not the main cause of the pope's quarrel and thunder against the Germane Emperors, and our English Kings, John, and Henry the 8. who held all the doctrinal points of the Romish Religion; and only impaired the pope's highness, greatness or revenues. In Henry 8 time, Hist. conc. Trid. lib. 1. pag. 70. the Court of Rome maintained, that it could not be said, There was no change of Religion in England, the first and principal article being changed, which is the supremacy of the pope: and that seditions would arise, as well for this only, as for all the rest, which the event shown to be true. For though the King continued the Religion of the pope so fully by commands and punishments, that pope Paul 3 commended him highly to the Emperor, Ibid, pag. 89, 90. ibid. pag. 87. as an illustrious example to be imitated in that course: yet for abrogating the pope's supremacy and revenues in England, he thundered a Bull against him, denouncing him deprived of his k●ngdome, and his adherents of whatsoever they possessed, and commanding his subjects to deny him obedience, and strangers to have any commerce with that kingdom: and all to take arms against, and to persecute both himself and his followers, granting them their estates and goods for their prey, and their persons for their slaves. It is not therefore the points of true ancient Catholic Christian Doctrine that you so much contend for, to make good gracious Christians, inheritors of heavenly felicity: but it is your wealth and greatness, or the setting up and maintaining of your Visible Monarchy of the Church (as you Doctor Sanders calls it) whereof Christ and his Apostles spoke never a word, and whereof the Primitive Church never dreamt. This, if our Religion would allow, Pius 4. Hist. conc. Trid. lib. 8. pag. 745. you would allow of our Religion. The rather-politicke-then-pious pope said once: since he could not regain the Protestants, it was necessary to keep those in obedience which he had, Bellar. de eccles. militant. lib. 3. c. 2. §. nostra autem sententia. See Triplici nodo pag. 41, 42. Printed 1609. to make the division strong, and the parties irreconciliable. Conformable whereunto, now their Doctrine is, that such as submit not to the pope's supremacy, do renounce Christianity. For the Church, (saith Bellarmine) is the company of them that live in subjection to the pope, professing the same faith with him, though they have no inward virtues but be indeed Atheists, Hypocrites, or Heretics. And in his Epistle to Blackwell, the Archpriest in England, (anno 1607.) he calls the pope's supremacy one of the principal heads of the Faith, and foundation of the Catholic Religion: and saith, They that disturb or diminish that primacy, seek to cut off the very head of the Faith, and to dissolve the state of the whole body, and of all the members. §. 4. This primacy is practised in the pope's challenged government over the Church of the whole world. For a Turrecremata lib. 2. c. 27. Aug. Triumph. q. 19 art. 1. as Matrimony is contracted betwixt a prelate and his particular Church (by his election and consecration) so betwixt the pope and the Universal Church. Thus if the pope be the general bridegroom (sponsus) and Rome the general bride (sponsa) than they two are the common parents of all Christians, so that none is to be accounted a Christian that hath not the pope for his father, and that Church for his mother. Capist. fol. 31. ●. So saith Capistranus, fol. 56 a. A manifest error, for ¹ none of the Churches of the New Testament (Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colossus, Thessaly, Smirna, Pergamus, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea, etc.) nor ² other Primitive Churches following for many hundred years, were any way dependant upon Rome or her Bishop: but were built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets (in general) jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone: and by that means, Eph. 2.20. were no more strangers and foreigners: but fellow-Citizens with the Saints, and of the household of God, Ephes. 2.19, 20. They did not acknowledge Rome their mother, but their sister: not the root, but a particular branch of the Church: such a one as equally with the rest, did partake of the root and fatness of the Olive tree, Rom. 11.17. Rom. 11.18, 20, 21, 22. And to the Roman Church was written directly this prophetical Caveat, Boast not against the branches: but if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Be not high minded, but fear: for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee: if thou continue not in his goodness, thou shalt also be cut off. This shows (1) that Rome is but a branch, not the root of the universal Church: (2) that it may be cut off, and yet other Churches stand and flourish, being united to the common root: and therefore are independent upon the Church of Rome. Baronius an. 45. n. 18. Bellar. de Rom. pont. lib. 2. c. 2. & lib. 3. cap. 13. And it is plain that the mystical Babylon (' mother of Abominations, drunken with the blood of the Saints and Martyrs, Reuel. 17.5, 6,) is the very City of Rome, built upon seven mountains (verse 9) and reigning over the Kings of the earth, Ribera in Apoc. 14. n. 27. & seq. Viegas in Apoc. 27. comment. 1. sec. 3. Suarez lib. 5. c. 7. n. 11. Of this point, see the glorious Panegyric Oration of Innotencius 3. calling himself the Spouse of the Church, and magnifying the largeness, dignity, wealth and dowry of his Bride: apud Vsserium De ecclesiarum successione & statu. cap. 9 initio pag. 255. See also B. Carlton. Consens contr. 2. de ecclesia cap. 1. pag. 156. and D. Field of the Church. lib. 5. cap. 41. pag. 267. where he answereth Bellarmine's arg. libri. 2. de Rom. pont. cap. 31. Ex nominibus quae Romano Pontifici tribui solent. (verse 18.) so plain, that that the jesuites cannot, do not deny it, our Rhemists say it was Rome under Nero, etc. but later jesuites, Ribera, and Viegas, & Suarez confess it must needs be Rome, towards the end of the world, wherein Antichrist shall sit, make havoc of the Church, and be finally destroyed. CHAP. 5. §. 5. II. As the Pope challengeth a superiority over all Christians so much more particularly over all the Clergy; who must all derive their, both Orders and jurisdiction from him, as from the universal Pastor of the Church, in whom all power of Orders and jurisdiction originally resideth: So that Bishops pay to the Pope great sums of money for their ceremonies at their entrance, and Priests also their first fruits and yearly tenths, with other payments to fill the Pope's Coffers, by exhausting Christian Kingdoms: and all Bishops and Priests become the pope's subjects, exempted from the jurisdiction, Laws and penalties of the Princes in whose Countries they live, both their persons, goods, and lands: which is a double injury to Christian Princes and commonwealths. First, that the Princes and State have no dominion over the persons or bodies of the Clergy, or over Monks, Friars, Nuns, or other Regulars or Votaries; they cannot be punished by the King's laws, be they adulterers murderers, robers', traitors, or tainted with other villainies, except the pope's officers will degrade them & make them seculars. Which was the Controversy betwixt King Henry the second, Read this whole story in our Chronicles, especially in Speeds. and Thomas Becket, Archbishop of Canterbury, who would not yield the King any authority to punish Clergy malefactors, as being none of his subjects. Secondly, that the Princes and State have no aid, subsidies, or revenues out of the goods or lands of Churchmen or Abbeys: whereas the goods or lands of such men may arise to a quarter or a third part of the whole Realm: yea, and they continually increase from Age to Age, by gifts, bequests, and purchases, and are never alienated; to the great impairing of public revenues and public force. For which the Venetians and other commonwealths have been compelled to make Laws of restraint, lest they should in time be swallowed up by the Clergy. This is against Divinity, equity, and antiquity; Christ was not exempted from the Magistrates power: he acknowledge Pilate to have power to crucify him, john 19.10, 11 & power to release him; even lawful power given him from above. He paid tribute to Caesar for himself and his. Saint Paul acknowledged Caesaer to be his lawful judge; And taught all men (both for conscience sake, Mat. 17. end. Act. 25.10. Rom. 13.1. etc. 1 Pet. 2.13. Bernard. epist. ad Episcopum Senonensem. Omnis anima, tum vestra, quis vos excipit? qui tentat excipere, tentat decipere. and in equity for the good we receive from the Magigstrates) to be subject to the civil Magistrates that bear the sword. Saint Peter doth the like. Saint Bernard writing to a Bishop, tells him he is not exempted from temporal subjection to Princes; he that excepts him deceives him. Father Paul of Venice in his Considerations upon the censure of Pope Paul 5. pag. 39 shows how the Exemptions of the Clergy, came in piecemeal by the privileges of Princes, and not jure divino. Anno domini 315. Constantine the great, exempted their persons from public and Court services. And Constant and Constance his sons added their exemption from illiberal or sordid actions, and from Impositions. 308 Valens and Gracianus. 400 Arcadius and Honorius. 420 Honorius and Theodosius 2. etc. put the trial of the Clergy to the Bishop, if both parties were willing; otherwise to the secular Magistrate: which was confirmed by Gracian also, anno 460. and by Leo. 560 justinian put the Clergy in civil causes to the Bishop, and in criminal to the secular judge. 630 Heraclius exempted the Clergy both in civil and criminal causes, from the secular Magistrate; yet ever reserving entire the Prince's immediate Deputies and substitutes. But the pope's in following Ages challenged these privileges as due to them by divine right, and abused these Emperor's bountifulness, to their great disturbance and dishonour. And in these last Ages wherein priests and jesuites are so busy with State matters, to the great disquiet and danger of Princes, making Religion a Mask to cover and closely convey treasons and rebellions: these exemptions and privileges are not tolerable. §. 6. III. The Pope's authority stays not here, in the general Fatherhood of the Church, or dominion over the Clergy, exempting from the secular powers. These are but stairs to an higher ascent. In the first and best times of the Church, the gaining of souls to God, was the principal end, and wealth a poor inferior means to maintain them (selling their lands to relieve the poor Christians, Acts 2.45 and 4.34, etc.) Now (it seems) greatness and wealth are the chief ends and a show of Religion is a means to get them. Christ's kingdom was not of this world, (john 18.36.) The Pope's is: Doctor Sanders calls it, Sanderi libri de visibili monarchia. The visible Monarchy of the Church, a Monarchy overtopping all other, yea practising to depose, dispose transpose all other Christian Potentates, as shall seem good to the Pope to give Henry's Empire to Rodulph, sending to him a Diadem with this Inscription, Petra dedit Petro, Petrus Diadema Rodulpho: authorising him (like Zimri) to kill his Master, and reign in his stead. To give England from King john to Philip of France: our Henry the vl, his Kingdom to whosoever could take it by force: Queen Elizabeth's to the King of Spain: to omit many others. Pope Celestinus crowned Henry 6 and his Empress, See Tortura Torti pag. 264. & 262. Baronius approved not Alexander 3. act. annot 177. for he thought the story not true: But Celestin●s fact he commends and defends. B. And●ews in Tortura Torti. pag. 263. with both his feet; and cast off his with one. An Emperor's Crown is but the pope's football. Gregory 7, made Henry 4. attend four days in Winter before his gates. Alexander 3, trod upon Frederick Barbarosaes' neck, reciting the verse of the Psalm, 91.13. Thou shalt tread upon the Lion and Adder, The young Lion and the Dragon shalt thou trample under thy f et. These things the world cried shame upon, and Bellarmine blusheth at some of them, and laboureth to weaken the credit of the Reporters: but our Bishop Andrew's reckons above 20 Authors of diverse Nations reporting them. Christ would not divide Inheritances amongst brethren, as a thing that belonged not unto him, Luke 12.14. The Pope (Christ's pretended Vicar) will. He will give all the East Indies to the Portug●ll and all the West to the Spaniard: and other Kingdoms at his pleasure: with as ample right as he challenged, that tempted Christ, Luke 4 6. As this is an unsupportable mischief, so the means to effect it is as evil or wo●se. When people must be so strangely and strongly deluded, and inebriated with false opinions, as to drink down poison instead of wholesome doctrine, to break Gods absolute, manifest, and holy laws at the pope's commandment: that if the pope take offence excommunicate the King, say he doth and can absolve them from their oath of allegiance, and all obedience to their King the Lords anointed, and bid them take arms against him, and root him out: they ought rather to obey the pope then God. Holy David, having Saul at advantage (a wicked King, forsaken of God, and one that furiously sought David's death) yet would not touch him himself, nor suffer him to be hurt by any other, because he was still the Lords anointed, 1 Sam. 24.4 5, 6, 7. and 26.11, 12. Saint Paul and Saint Peter taught Christians subjection even to heathen Emperors, persecutors of the Church (for such they were at that time) Rom. 13.1. etc. 1 Pet. 213. The pope is fare from David's, Paul's, Peter's spirit. Our Saint Peter of Jerusalem commanded, Be subject to the King as supreme, for so is the will of God, 1 Pet. 2.13, 15. but your Peter of Rome commands the contrary: Be not subject to the King as supreme, for this is the will of Christ's Vicar. Yea (saith our Saint Peter, ib, (verse 19, 20, 21.) Be subject to your Masters, though they be evil and froward, and for conscience sake to God suffer wrongfully, as Christ did, for that is acceptable to God: but your Peter of Rome saith, R●bell against Princes whom I judge evil and froward, and for conscience sake (do against all conscience, religion and common honesty) work treasons, insurrections, massacres, for that is acceptable to God. What new, incredible, abominable doctrine is this, that rebellions, treasons, and massacres of Princes and people, differing from the pope in some points of Religion, are meritorious acts, and highly pleasing to God? That dethroning Princes, adjudging their Kingdoms to strangers, filling the world with perjuries, rebellions, wars treasons, invasions, dashing kingdoms against kingdoms, bringing in a Chaos of confusions, and the face of hell into the Christian world: that all these are works of piety and religion? and poor bewitched people must so believe, and so practise? Tantum Rell●gio potuit suadêre malorum! ●ucretius. If this be religion, men had need write Apologies (books of excuse and defence) for Religion: which hath been and should be the greatest blessing of the world, the power fullest means and strongest bond of love, peace, comfort, and happiness: lest it now be held the most turbulent suspicious, seditious engine to undermine and overthrew, all love, peace, comfort, happiness, and become the greatest plague of the world. Of these things here briefly; of this point I shall speak more fully in fit place. §. 7. FOUR A fourth great policy, whereby the Pope gaineth to himself sure friends and great means, is his assumed power to dissolve or dispense with oaths, bonds promises, or leagues. An unsufferable sin, but very profitable to him. For when Princes or great men are driven in their estates to hard conditions or extremities, or desirous for their profit to take some great advantage by breaking their oaths: they have no other means to save their honour and credit with the world, then to allege the warranty of the pope's holy authority: which authority they are tied, afterwards, most firmly to maintain. Thus the politic pope, and they whom he favoureth, thrive in honour, wealth and strength, by blinding the world with this unjust usurped practice, to the inestimable prejudice of the wronged party, and of all other whom the pope affecteth not, whose weightiest actions, resolutions, leagues and contracts, are made nothing worth; or only are in force till the pope list to dissolve them. See B. Andrew's Ad Tortum Responsio. pag 55. He can bind and lose at his pleasure: as our Saint Peter by the Ke●es of heaven could bind and unbind sins: so your Peter of Rome, (b● the Keys of Hell, it seems) can bind and unbind, laws and oaths, be they never so good, holy, and divine: yea laws and oaths as easily as sins against laws and oaths. And thus the most solemn oaths for leagues and laws taken upon men, sub Deo ●●ste sub Deo vindice, ordained to be the sovereign instruments of justice and security amongst men, See example's of these hereafter, cap. and the strongest bonds of conscience: are now made delusions of good men, instruments of deceit and mischief intolerable; snares to entrap the well-meaning, to maintain the deceitful wrongdoer, and to uphold the pope's own greatness, with most shameful blemishes of Christian Religion. Laws, oaths, vows, are soluble and saleable at Rome: men are no more to be trusted with them, then without them; they that are on the pope's side need not stick at sin, breach of vows, or perjuries: he can d slolue all, and cut asunder all the bonds and sins of humane peace, security and society, laws, oaths, vows, leagues and tyalls whatsoever. §. 8. Hist. conc. Trent. lib. 1. pag. 10. & lib. 8. pag. 791. V. No less sinful, and no less profitable to the pope are Matrimonial dispensations and sentences of divorce, as well granted as denied. When great Princes are sheltered with the name of the Vicar of Christ, to contract some incestuous marriage, or dissolve one, to contract with another to unite some Territory to their own, or to drown the titles of other pretenders, or make some other straight alliance: those Princes are now to defend that authority without which their actions would be condemned: yea, also their children and posterity must be fast friends unto the pope, l●st they endanger their own legitimation, their state and dignity. Annals Elizab. Camden. Appara●●. pag. 2. For uniting of Territories, Charles the 8, King of France made great use of the pope's dispensing power. He had taken the daughter of Maximilian (King of Romans) for his future wife; but afterwards for desire of the Duchy of Britain, he solicited to marry Anne the heir of Brittany, though she was betrothed, yea, and already married to Maximilian by his Proxy, or Proctor Wolfgangus, Poleme of Ostrich openly in the Church. A double injury to Maximilian, to have her taken from him whom he accounted his wife, and to have his daughter sent home again, who had been many year's Queen of France. But this could the Pope do. Philip Cominius reports it, lib. 7. cap 3. adding, whether these things agree with the laws of holy Church, or no, let others judge. Some Doctors of Divinity said, yea, and many nay. But the issues of these Ladies were very unfortunate, and many calamities proceeded from these marriages, as he there reports. Yet the pope dispensed with all this, partly to bind the French unto him, and partly to bridle the Emperor, whom he would not have grow too great, by addition of Britain to his State. Besides, he needed not much care for this present Emperor Maximilian, a poor prince, full of affairs, and of small credit. Yea Maximilian himself afterwards affected the popedom, as Guicciardine reporteth. But come we to the affairs of our own Nation. Pope Julius the 2. gave a dispensation, that King Henry the 8. of England, might marry Katherine, the wife of his brother Arthur, deceased. A marriage plainly condemned by the Scriptures, Leu. 18.16. and 20.21. and Mat. 24.2, 4. and by many learned Universities. Afterwards pope Clement the 7. Hist. council. Trid. lib. 1. pag. 68 at Henry's suit sent Cardinal Campeggio into England, framing a Brief to dissolve the Kings said marriage with Katherine (to be published when some few proofs were passed, which he was sure would easily be made) and to give liberty to the King to marry another: This, anno 1524. but anno 1529. The pope thinking it better to join with the Emperor (who was son to Katherine's sister) sent another Nuncio to Campeggio, with order to burn the Brief, and to proceed slowly in the cause. For the popement to apply himself to his best advantages, but the King espying their juggling, finally banished the pope's authority out of England. Annals ibid. praepar. pag. A. 3. Latin Apparat. p. xii. But Queen, Mary, the daughter of H●nry, by the said marriage of Katherine, persuaded herself that all the right that she had to the Kingdom of England, was upholden by no other means then by the power of the pope, whose dispensation made that marriage lawful, and gave sentence of her side, after her father had declared her illegitimate, and therefore she was bound to cleave strongly to the Pope. Also Charles the 5, Emperor, procured a marriage betwixt Philip his son of Spain, and Mary, Queen of England, by a dispensation of pope julius the 3. because they were allied in the third degree: and that Charles himself had contracted to marry her, being then under age for time to come. Ibid. pag. 5. sed ●atin. pag. 4. After her death, King Philip desirous to keep England, treated seriously of a marriage with Queen Elizabeth (his late wife's sister) with promise to obtain a special dispensation from the pope. Which, the King of France (fearing it would be granted by the pope) laboured secretly to hinder, but the hindrance of the marriage was from Queen Elizabeth herself. Relation of Religion in the West. pag. 34. & 27. See the whole Tract. pag. 25. & seq. By such dispensations from the pope, marriages in the house of Austria have been so near, that they remain still as brethren, all of one family, and as arms of the selfsame body. Keeping their dominions united still together without distraction. Philip the second of Spain, might call the Archduke Albert, both brother, cousin, nephew, and son; being uncle to himself, cousin-german to his father, husband to his sister, and father to his wife. Such marriages (made lawful only by the pope, dispensing with the Law of God) must needs bind both the parties and issue thereof to be firm to the Papacy, and to maintain that authority, by which themselves stand maintained and honoured. So searched and penetrant is that Sea of Rome to strengthen itself more by unlawful marriages of other men, than ever Prince yet could do, by the most lawful marriage of his own. And thus the Pope, by some one act, ties unto himself the favour of many friends, and many generations. Yet may this be thought fit only for blinded or ill-minded Princes; The well-sighted or well-minded, need no such cloak, nor will make use of any such, for any otherwise uniustifiable courses. But if they through their own ignorance, or their Ancestors unjust projects, have been involved in such nets as their conscience now mislikes: they may (after our King Henry's example) by God's book and the counsel of godly, wise, and learned men, altar their courses, abolish his authority that altars God's Laws, or deludes them: and establish their state by more sound means. Humanum est errare, perseverare diabolicum. §. 9 VI Other dispensations, See Verdunt discourse, anno 1563. Mense. Febr. in hist. conc. Trid. lib. 7. pag. 676. See Tortura Torti. pag 57 for diverse things hurtful to the Church, States, and People, but very profitable to the Pope and Court of Rome, are ordinary. About which one johannes Verdun spoke freely and judiciously in the Council of Trent. Dispensations (saith he) are accounted dis-obligations from the Law, but God's Law is perpetual and remaineth inviolable for ever. The Pope is not Lord, and the Church his servant, to bestow favours as a master upon his servants He is but a servant (at the best) to him who is Spouse of the Church: neither can he by dispensing unbind any that is bound; but only declare to him that is not bound, that he is exempted from the Law. Indeed, humane Laws through the imperfection of the Lawmakers, and Cases not foreseen may admit dispensations in sundry occurrences; as exceptions from the general Law, where it may be justly thought, the Lawmakers would have made exceptions if they had foreseen those Cases: but where God is the Lawgiver (from whom nothing is concealed, and by whom no accident is not foreseen) the Law can have no exception, but all his Law is equity itself, perpetual and immutable. Hist. conc. Trid. lib. 4. pag. 321. The King of France (anno 1551.) in a Printed Manifest, published to his subjects, that they were not to regard the Pope's dispensations, which were not able to secure the conscience, and are nothing but a shadow cast before the eyes of men, which cannot hide the truth from God. Even in men's laws, Dispensationes sunt legum ulnera, Dispensations are deep wounds: In God's Laws deadly wounds, both to the laws, and to the dispenser. for laws often wounded, have little life left in them; and he that wounds them hath little feeling of conscience. Christ came not to dissolve the Law, but to fulfil it, (Matth. 5.17.) the Pope comes not to fulfil the laws but to dissolve them. He unbinds subjects oaths to Princes: yea, binds subjects with oaths against Princes: both against God's Law: binding where he should lose, losing where he should bind, as Anti-god, and Antichrist. He binds his Catholics for a time; while they want strength they shall not stir getting strength, than they are loosed, then stir, kill● and massacre. Thus Gregory the 13. interprets the Bull of Pius the 5. And thus Princes of the old Christian faith, that they live and reign, are beholden to the Catholics of the new stamp, not for their faith, but for their weakness. Hist. conc. Trent. lib. 8. pag. 815. And with other Laws, Constitutions, Counsels, and Ordinances, he playeth fast and lose as he list. Take for example that which is written in the end of the history of the Council of Trent. When much debating had been between the Pope and the Cardinals, whether his Holiness should confirm the Council or no: because through the importunity of Princes, and some learned Divines, many Decrees had passed for reformat on of diverse things, whereby the dignity and profits of the Papacy and Court of Rome would be much impaired: at last Cardinal Amulius told the pope, Since he could not possibly avoid the calling and celebrating of the Council, so much desired by the clamour of the world, he must now either quickly confirm it to satisfy the world, or else Princes and States would use other means by national Counsels, or by another general Council to satisfy themselves. But now by confirming all, and giving as much quick execution as was possible, the pope might stay and quiet the humour of the world for the present: and afterwards by unsensible and unresistable degrees, by his dispensations he might bring all to the same estate, wherein it was before; without seeming to violate the decrees of the Council, and this policy took effect; and so both frustrate the good reformation intended by the Decrees, and also gulled the world and all the Princes and Prelates pains, and turned all to the profit of the Pope, his Court, and Cardinals. Whereby it plainly appears, The pope's faction aimeth not at the good of the Church, or Christian commonwealths, but only at their own wealth and greatness, and hereby appears also the great power and iniquity of the Pope's dispensations. Antiquus. Whatsoever they aim at: I am resolved that many of these things cannot be of God; they are certainly the faults of men, and abuses practised under colour of Religion I cannot, I will not defend them. But I do much wonder, how, not being of God, they should be so generally received, believed to be of God, and so long continued, and not rather long since driven out of the world by Princes and People. Antiquissimus. Sir, if ye knew and considered the policies and power, which have been used, to bring them in and maintain them, your wonder would cease. Antiquus. I pray you make me acquainted with them. Antiquissimus. Some of the principal and most obvious, I will: but my wit cannot sound the bottomless depth of the Mystery of Iniquity. Antiquus. A taste thereof shall content me. CHAP. 6. Of policies to maintain the Pope's Princedom and Wealth. 1 Depriving men of the light of the Scriptures. And 2 of their ordinary preachings, and setting up ambulatery Monks and Pryars, to preach without control of Church Ministers and Officers. 3 Schoolman's too much subtlety and Philosophy, darkening and corrupting Divinity. 4 jesuites, their original noted, their Seminaries, their Emissions, faculties, insinuations, and employments. 5 Cardinals. 6 Provision for men and women of all sorts, by Monasteries, etc. 7 Auricular confession. 8 Other policies to gather wealth. 9 Purgatory, a rich thing. 10 So are Indulgences or Pardons. 11 Jubilies. 12 Corruptions of doctrine, touching merits and Justification, etc. 13 Things hallowed by the Pope. 14 Extraordinary exactions. §. 1. THe Pope's principal means to make the people his own, were 1 to keep the Divine Scriptures from them, by which else they might discern his uniustifiable policies. Psal. 119.105. and 19.7, 8. For God's Word is the light and lantern of Christians, which S. Paul would have to dwell plentifully among them, Col. 3.16. and S. Peter would have Babes in Christ to desire the sincere milk of the Word, that they may grow thereby, 1 Pet. 2.2. which is able to make them wise in the points of faith, 2 Tim. 3.15. and perfectly furnished unto all good works, verse 17. Chrysost. serm. 2. de Lazaro. S. chrysostom (as do many other Fathers also) exhorts all people (Laymen especially, Tradesmen, Carpenters, etc.) to get them Bibles more carefully than any other tools of their occupation: and the more they dealt in the world, and met with temptations, i'll examples, and occasions of sin, so much more carefully to read the Scriptures, for direction and armour against them. Christ himself commandeth, Search the Scriptures, (Joh. 5.39.) and saith, (Matth. 22.29.) Do ye not err not knowing the Scriptures? So that, herein They are Anti-pauls' and Peter's, Anti-chrysostomes, and Anti-christs', that teach and practise the contrary: Matth. 5 15. hiding the light of God's Word under their Latin bushels, from the unlatined people in God's house; yea, and from the Latined too, under great penalties, except they be licenced. Surely as this is a means to obscure the truth, and lead men as Captives blindfold whether they list * 2 Tim. 2.26. ; so it is a sign, they love not the truth, but are evil men and hate the light, lest their deeds should be reproved, joh. 3.20. §. 2. But it was not sufficient to take from men the true light, except there be added also a false light, to misguide them; for men's minds being naturally desirous of knowledge, and given to devotion, must have that hunger satisfied and quieted either by truth or appearance. Their second policy was therefore; 2 To put down the ordinary Pastors and Preachers, or to take a course that they are discouraged, disabled, grow unlearned and unfit to preach: and set up others. For Saint Paul appointed Bishops to ordain Presbyters * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Tit. 1.5. in every City and Town, to wit such as dwell among the people, might best know the wants, sins, capacities of their own people; See Tit. 5, 6, 7, etc. 1 Tim, 3.2, etc. and 5.22. Acts 20.17, 18. and apply their teaching the best way to inform, reform, and win them: and such as being fixed in their places might best be called to account by the Bishop, either for life or doctrine. This was Gods excellent means to preserve sound doctrine and sincere holy lives of Ministers. But when the Pope's ambition and covetousness grew so great, that they were not content with Christ's heavenly Kingdom, but would superadd unto it an earthly kingdom, and make of Christ's militant Church, and Church triumphant upon earth, a visible Church Monarchy (as Doctor Sanders entitles it) over-topping all other Kingdoms of civil Princes, Kings and Emperors: and draw out of all Countries the Wealth and Treasure of the world to maintain it: Then the Ministers and Preachers of Christ's ordaining, would not serve their turn, but would rather oppose. And therefore it was the pope's best policy to disgrace and disable them: and to find out and set up others fitter for their purpose, to preach in all places of the world, by the authority and privilege of the Pope's only, and wholly exempted from the Bishop's jurisdictions, and from all control of other Ministers or Officers whatsoever. So that these new Preachers merely depending upon the pope, and maintained by him, might answerably maintain him, uphold his authority and all his proceed, with the disgrace and beating down of all his or their adversaries. §. 2. See Hist. council. Trent. lib. 2. pag. 167. 169. 170. an. 1546. & lib. 4. pag. 322. This course was found to be very hurtful to the Church, and was complained of by many learned men in the following Ages: and in the late Council of Trent, Reformation thereof was very earnestly called for by many Bishops, especially the Spanish; as a thing that utterly abolished the Apostles Institution, and the holy Father's practice, & took away the Bishop's office, and was the cause why all things were out of order, and so had grown by degrees from bad to worse for three hundred years. Neither was it possible to amend them, while these ambulatory Monks and Friars did so swarm in the world, with privilege to preach where and what they list, against the Bishop's wills. Upon such great and frequent complaints in Trent, Ibid. pag. 170. the pope and Cardinals at Rome, took the matter into their consideration: and they quickly saw, that if these exemptions and privileges of preaching Monks and Friars were taken away, the pope's authority would decay. For it was a clear case, that after the six hundredth year, the primacy of the Apostolic Sea, had been upheld by the Benedictine Monks exempted, and after by the Congregations of Clunie and Cistercium, and other Monastical Assemblies, until the Mendicant Friars arose, by whom it had been maintained till that time. And therefore to take away those privileges, were directly to oppugn the Papacy, with a manifest depression of the Court of Rome. These motions therefore were by all possible means to be silenced. Note (by the way) something of the Monks here named, and the Ages they lived in. §. 3. Tritem. de viris illustr. ord. lib. 1. cap. 2. &. 5. Tritemius writes that of the Benedictines there were before the Council of Constance, 15000 Religious houses: and that out of this order, there had been taken of Popes, eighteen; Cardinals, one hundred and eighty; Archbishops, one thousand, one hundred sixty four; Bishops, three thousand five hundred and twelve; by which you may guess at the multitudes, power, estimation, and authority that this order had in the world. Azor. instit moral. lib. 12. c. 21. Azorius saith, when this order grew slack and swerved from their first rule; the Cluniacenses arose out of them, an. 913. And the C●sternienses, anno 1198. And these were they that upheld the Papacy so notably in those middle times of darkness, when all Learning, both Divine and Humane (yea, and almost all goodness) was decayed out of the world: and ignorant men were apt to believe any thing, and take it for currant and authentical, which their seeming-holy Churchmen taught, being no way able to examine the truth thereof. §. 4. Legend Aur. jacobi de Voragine in vita Dominici. c. Also in vita Dominici, addita Lipomano De historia Sanctorum. These things (they say) were made known to diverse devout Monks by Visions or Revelations: whereof jacobus de Voragine Bishop of Genua, reciteth some. In legenda S. Dominici. But in succeeding times, when the world's eyes were better opened, and the opposers of the Papacy (specially, the Waldenses, or Albigenses) grew to greater numbers and strength: Innocent. 3. hit upon better means against them: by the two orders of begging Friars, newly devised by S S. Dominick and Francis. There is a wicked and profane story (which I thought, the learned of this Age had been ashamed of, but that I find it new written again by Costerus the jesuite, in the Preface of his Institutions) how that jesus Christ was in a great chafe that the Albigenses increased so fast and seemed to overcome the world so that he said he would presently destroy the world. But the holy Virgin his Mother, prayed him to be patiented a while, that she might first send two men into the world, S. Dominicke and S. Francis; and if they could overcome them, all should be well: if not, then let him take his pleasure. They writ also that Dominicus having devised a new order against Heretics, better than any former, came to pope Innocent 3. to have it confirmed. The pope in some suspense, whether to grant or deny it, one night saw in his dream, the great church of Lateran shrinking in his joints, and ready to finke to the earth: whereat affrighted, he thought he saw Dominick presently come, and hold it up with his shoulders. Upon which vision he confirmed his new order. Thus writes Vincentius in Speculo histor. Antoninus, Theodoricus, Bertrandus, Bonav. de vita Francisci cap. 3. in fine apud Lipomanum. Baptista Mantuanus. But Bonaventure saith. It was Saint Francis that held up the Church. See Bishop Usher, De successu Ecclesiae cap 9 § 9, 10. Howsoever, it is certain they that wrote, and they that believed these stories, had a strong conceit that these two Orders were— magnae spes altera Romae, Strong successive props to uphold the Majesty of the Papacy And so they were, many ways: 1 by their multitude, for they quickly spread over the face of the earth (some say, Chawcer in the wife of Baths tale. as thick as the Locusts darkening the air, Reuel. 9 or) as Chawcer saith, as thick as motes in the Sun Beam. 2 By their credit and estimation among the people, for they were received and admired as most holy men, vowing poverty, forswearing riches lands, or other worldly goods for Christ's sake, contented with their Houses, Gardens, and Orchards, living on Alms, begged or brought to them, simply clothed, with ropes for their girdles: and preaching very diligently in all places, specially acquaint Tales, and Legends delighting the people. But the sense of their credit made them untolerably audacious, See these things at large in Mat. Paris. pag 404. and 673. And in B. Usher De Eccles. cap. 9 §. 14. & seq. in vilifying all ordinary Ministers of the Gospel, creeping into, and usurping their Offices; and magnifying themselves, as the only men of Gods privy Council, full of inspirations and Revelations: they only knew how to distinguish (lepram à lepra) one sin from another how to open hard and knotty questions, resolve all doubts, give true penance and absolution, etc. And they kept books of the names of all their Clients that chose them to be their Confessors and counsellors, and by such devices drew infinite store of people, and much wealth after them, whereby they built very stately houses like King's Palaces; and professing poverty, abounded with all wealth and superfluity; and so rob the ordinary Ministers of their maintenance, and brought them into such contempt and poverty, that they made grievous complaints thereof to the Emperor, Pope and Cardinals, in which complaints some Bishops joined with them. Yea, the famous University of Paris complained to the Popes of their wrongs also, but all in vain; for the pope favoured the Friars, and kerbed the Universities privileges. §. 5. See Vsherabidem. During this contention at Paris, The Friars forged a new Gospel (fit, it seems, for their purpose then Christ's Gospel) and called it the Gospel of the Holy Ghost, and the everlasting Gospel, Evangelium aeternum; labouring to make men believe it was more perfect, better, and worthier than the Gospel of Christ, as the Sun was more perfect than the Move, and the kernel of a Nut better than the shell; and that Christ's Gospel should then cease, and this should come in the room of it and continue for ever. And this Gospel continued 55 years without any open reprehension of the Church of Rome, and at length was set forth to be openly read and expounded in the University of Paris, anno 1255. But it was opposed by some Parisian Doctors, Gulielmus de Sancto amore, O do de Duaco, Nicholaus de Barro and Christianus Belluacensis, who wrote against it, and shown the monstrous impieties and blasphemies of it. After much contention, finally the matter was brought before the pope, anno 1256. who (with advice of his Cardinals) took order, that this Gospel and all the copies thereof, should be secretly burned, and not openly reprehended for disgracing their Orders: and also that the Parisians books written against it, should be publicly burned. The pope's Decree for this purpose, is inserted in Bishop Ushers book, De successione Ecclesiarum, cap. 9 §. 28. Where also the whole story is set down somewhat largely, collected out of many approved Historians there cited, ibid. §. 20. & seq. By this story appeareth the little conscience these seeming holy Friars made of the truth of their teaching, §. 6. or of corrupting God's Word or abrogating it, or of teaching any thing that might serve for their purpose. And these were the worthy men, whom the Jnnocent pope made choice of, to uphold (not Christ's Church, but) the Papacy: authorising them to preach where and what they list, without control of any man, for the maintenance thereof. 3 And not only to preach, but to exercise the authority and power of a most cruel Inquisition, Hos prosternamus, deleamusque said Dominic● to Francis. in vita Deminici. yea made them the chief Inquisitors to search out and deliver up to death, all those that gainsaid and withstood without yielding unto the Doctrine and government of the Pope, although otherwise they lived never so holily, justly, and quietly; which bloody office they executed with all diligence and cruelty. §. 3. 4 About the same time also, and out of their School, arose another Evil of unprofitable and idle Sententiaries, Questionists, Summists, Quodlibetists, and such like: 1 Tim. 6.4. fit men to corrupt the simplicity of the Gospel, and fill men's heads with dark, thorny, and brawling disputes, to languish about questions, 2 Tim. 2, 23. and strife of words, and by too much subtlety, making plain things obscure; losing the pith, marrow, and kernel of true Theology: 1 Tim. 6.20. and bringing true saving knowledge of good life to profane and vain janglings, and oppositions of science falsely so called. For now was Theology made conformable to their rules of Philosophy, and must have no other sense then their fore-conceived opinions allowed it: and all other senses must be shifted of by subtle distinctions. Viues in his notes upon S. Augustine de civ, Dei. The Schoolmen (saith Lodovicus Viues) through ignorance of tongues, have not only marred and smothered a Lib. 3. cap. 31. all other Arts, but b Lib 3. cap. 13. &. lib. 19 c. 12. Divinity too: and and have c Lib. 11. c. 11. &. 14. Lib. 13. cap. 1. lib. 18. cap. 1. lib. 20. cap. 16. & lib. 21 cap. 7. As D. Rainolds hath collected them in the Preface to his Conference with Mr. Hart. But these places are now purged out by Index Expurg. in the later Prints. profaned it with their curiosity, their vanity, their folly, their rashness in moving and defining questions; As Aristotelians rather then Christians, and Heathen Philosophers, than Scholars of the holy Ghost. §. 4. When M. Luther had reproved the great abuse of Pardons, Concil. Tried sess. 21. c. 9 anno 1517. and that so justly, that shortly after, the Fathers of the Trent Council, utterly abolished the pardoners, as untollerably scandalous to Christian people: and thereby justified Luther's beginning and proceeding: Ignatius Loiola, a Spaniard, lately before a Courtier and a Soldier, and now disabled by a wound in one of his legs, thought upon a better remedy against the enemies of the Pope's sovereignty, Genebrard. lib. 4. chron. than had been devised before, and in the year 1521. began a new order of jesuites; he observed as he traveled in many Countries and Universities, such rules and orders as best fitted his purpose, Possevin. Bibl. select. lib. 1. cap. 38. and having joined ten other choice men to himself, came to Rome, anno 1540 to get his order confirmed by the Pope: and by means of Cardinal Contarenus, Massaeus jesuita. lib 2. c. 1 ●. vit. Ignatij Loiola. offered the form of his new order to the Pope, wherein he had to the three vows of other orders, super added a fourth vow, that the jesuites should willingly and readily go into any Country of Christians or Infidels, whethersoever the Pope would send them, for the affairs of Religion. This the Pope greatly liked saying it would prove a notable help to the afflicted state of the Church. Ribadeneira. vit. Ig●at. lib. 2. c. 18. Thus writes M●ssaeus the jesuite: and another jesuite Ribadineira saith, God by singular providence sent Jgnatius to help his Church now when it was ready to fall. They say Satan sent Luther, and God sent the jesuites to withstand him: We say the contrary. But let it be judged by the purport of their Doctrine, who came from God ●nd who from the enemy. They that teach disloyalty and rebellion against Kings, and lead their people into Conspiracies and Treasons, against States and Kingdoms (to let all other points pass untouched, for the present) let them be branded for the Emissaries of Satan. This order than was first confirmed by Paul, Azor. Institut. moral. lib. 13. cap. 7. 3. 1540 and again 1543. and by Julius 3. 1550. also by Pius 5. 1565. and 1571. and lastly by Gregory 13. 1584. as Azorius the jesuit writeth, and sets down the Confirmation at large. But this order of jesuites never came to the height till Gregory 13 his time, when Claudius de Aqua viva, was made their General. Possevin. Bibl. select. l. 1. c. 39 Then was a project laid to build Colleges and Seminaries to train up young men, and make them fit instruments to maintain the Papacy and Romish Church. To that end sundry choice men were brought from diverse Countries joannes Azorius from Spain, jasper Gonzales from Portugal, Jacobus Tyrius from France, Petrus Buseus from Austria, Antonius Guisanus from upper Germany, and Stephanus Tugius who remained at Rome. All these, of extraordinary learning and experience, having been Governors of Colleges or Schools, a long time in their several Countries. These were appointed by the Pope and Aqua viva, to consult of the best manner of training up young men in the Seminaries. They had consultations, instructions and intelligences from other places, a whole year together; and doubtless concluded upon the most politic and likely course that humane wit could device, to subdue the the world to their own purposes. Mean season there were enticed or drawn out of diverse Nations (by books published, ee B. Bilson ●ifference of subjection, and rebellion, part. 1. pag. 149. & seq. and other means) many of the best wits, such as wanted maintenance, or had miss preferments in the Universities or other places, or were otherwise discontented, or desirous of novelties, etc. they were drawn by magnifical promises of preferment, degrees, honours, employment, and most exquisite education in all manner of learning, to come to the most bountiful Pope, and receive them. And, by this means shortly were furnished many Seminaries with jesuite Governors, and Readers, and with plenty of hearers or students, Seminarium Romanum, Germanum, Anglicum, Graecum, and Maronitanum or of the Inhabitants of Montlibanus, to train up and make fit instruments in the shortest time to be sent again into their Countries to put in practise the things they had learned, and with all possible wit and diligence to recover and restore the authority of the Roman Church where it was decayed: and in all other places also to prevent such blows and wounds as the Papacy had already otherwhere received. To which purpose they had privileges (contrary to other orders) as times and occasions required to go disguised not in Religious but laymen's habits, like Gentlemen, gallants or servingmen. Dialogue between a secular Priest a Gentleman. pag. 90. (One of their secular Priests reports, that a jesuite hath worn a Girdle, Hangers, and Rapier worth ten pounds: a jerkin worth as much: and made himself three suits of apparel in a year: his horse, furniture, and apparel valued at an hundred pounds) the better to insinuate into all Companies unsuspected, and creep into their minds with cunning persuasions ere they were ware, and so go forwards or fall off, as hopes or fears should meet them. And wheresoever they could find or work out entertainment, they had privileges, Bulls, and Faculties to hear Confessions, to pardon sins, to reconcile and receive penitents into the bosom of the Church of Rome, to instruct them that Princes, not of the Catholic Romish faith, nor subject to the pope, were no Princes: but had lost their authority, rule, government, and dominion: their Officers, no Officers, their Laws, no Laws: their subjects were freed from obedience to them, further than for fear or want of strength they might obey: but when they had strength and power, they might and ought by all means to put such Princes down, and set up others, such as the pope should like of. That they should by no means come to the Protestant Churches or prayers, but maintain an irreconciliable hatred to all religious Acts and Doctrines of theirs, seemed they never so good: and as they should be able, utterly to extirp them as people worse than Infidels. And for their cunning and appearing sanctity, they became Confessors and Counselors to Kings and Queens, and great personages: and thrust themselves into counsels and actions of state, government, intelligences: and had such connexion's amongst themselves, as no kind of men could go beyond them in wit, learning, power, or policy. They nested themselves in places of best advantage of Prince's Courts, chiefest Cities, greatest men: and where they could once place Seminaries or Colleges of their own Society, they made account that Country was their own. Their Colleges (as it is observed) placed upon the walls of Cities, afforded them passage into the City or abroad into the world at pleasure, to give or receive intelligence as occasion served. They ha● their General at Rom●, at the pope's elbow, (as the aforesaid Claudius de Aqua viva) and under him Provincialles, and Archpriests in every Country, (as George Blackwell, Henry Garnet, and after him George Bircot in England) to give order and directions to inferior jesuites, and there to appoint them their limits and employments, call them to accou●t; and send them when and whither they thought good. And so erected a new jesus tical government, and clasped the Kingdom (as fare as was possible) in their own fists. See the full discourse h●re of in M●●●●to Ga●lob●l●i●o Da●t●cano anno. 1607. pag. 67. It was w●ll discoursed to the Polonian Nobility, assembled for Reformation of the troubles in the Land, That the greatest enemy's to that & other free estates, were the jesuites, who had a Monarchical policy, fittest to move and act, tied to one head at Rome, and tied to their superiors in straitest form of Obedience; that the lower may not inquire into any (no not the absurdest) commands of the superiors; but must yield ready obedience without knowing any reason of the equity or danger thereof. Which blind obedience hath brought forth many desperate audacious instruments and designs. So that the jesuites faction is a most agile sharp sword, whose blade is sheathed at pleasure in the bowels of every Commonwealth, but the handle reacheth to Rome and Spain. So that the very life, death, and fortunes, of all Kings, Magistrates, and commonwealths, hangs upon the horoscope of the jesuites pleasures. If the jesuites be as lucky stars in the ascendent and culminant, they may live, continue, and flourish: if malevolent, they perish, but that Deus dominabitur Astris. §. 5. See Rainold. & Hart. confe●. cap. 1. din. 6. ●p. 382. The great estate and authority of Cardinals was an especial means to advance and uphold the Papacy, after that the parishes grew so populous, that there needed mor● Priests and Deacons than one, in every Parish and Ward in Rome, the principal was called the Cardinal priest and Cardinal Deacon: Bell●r. Apolog. con●●a praesat. m●●●ortum Iacob Reg●s cap. 4. pa●. 34. 38, 39, Ibid. pag. 337. con●. Lat●ran. cap. 1. and this honourable name was in time also given to the chief Bishops near unto Rome, they were also called Cardinal Bishops: as the Bishop of Alba, Tusculum, Preneste, Sabine, Portuesse, and Ostia. And until the year 1180. they all (Bishops, Priests, and Deacons) lived on th●ir own charge, and discharged it in their own persons, though also (as nearest) often employed in the pope's affairs. But by Alexander the third, Cerem. Eccle. Rom. lib. 1. &. 3. August. Triumphus d● potest. eccl q est. 8. art. 4. Antonin. Sum. part. 3. tit. 21. cap. 1. §, 2. Ceremoniar. Rom eccl. s. lib. 1. sect. 8 cap. 3. Some fetch a prophecy of Cardinals from Sam●ch M●ther (1 Sam 2.8.) where h● saith, Do●ini su●t cardines terrae, & posunt super eos orbem (which is in English, The pillars of the earth are the Lords, & he hath let the world upon them: but) which they understand thus: The Cardinals are lords of the earth, etc. Cardines (id ●st) Cardinals, super q●ibus diu j●m, qua deb●it qui●scere, movetur t●●●ra, saith our Bishop Andrew's. Ad Cardinalis ●ella●mini Apologiam Responsic. cap. 4. pag 97. Cardinal's are such henges as the earth moveth upon when it should be quiet. [This dignity is not n●w (saith Bella●m●ne ib.) for it is 5●● years old: but surely that is new that came n●● in till a●ter twice 500 years and more.] This is alleged and confuted by Azorius Instit. moral. part. 2. l. 4. c. 1. §. 3 queritur. B. Mo●●●n Appeal. l. 4. c. 19 sect. 3. they were made the only Electors of the Pope, after that the Emperor was first thrust out from the election, than the people, and afterwards the Clergy. And in short time the Cardinals grew to be fellows to Kings, guardians to Princes, and Protectors of Nations; but all to the pope's best interest, they were created with these words, Estote Fratres nostri, & principes mundi. Be ye our brethren, and princes of the world. Pope Pius 2. spoke thus to his new created Cardinals,— Vos Senatores urbis, & regum similes eritis veri mundi cardines, super quos militantis ostium Ecclesia voluendum ac regendum est. You Senators of the City, and like to Kings, shall be the true hooks or henges of the world, upon which the door of the militant Church is to be turned and ruled. They were by Innocent the fourth dignified with Purple. In the age when Transubstantiation was made an article of Faith, they were (not transubstantiated, but) transaccidentated, and made more glorious to the eyes of the world; about anno 1250. Thus their dignity & authority was great, and as great was their maintenance and wealth. For to this dignity were chosen the greatest prelate's of sundry Dioceses and Provinces, as of York (for example) and Canterbury in England; Rheims and Roan in France; Toledo in Spain; Lisbon in Portugal; Mila●, Ravenna, Venice, in Italy; In Germany, Colen, Trier, and men's; in Bohemia, Praga; in Poland, Cracovia; in Hungary, Strigonium: and so forth, the chiefest Bishops in all Christendom, to be the cardinal Priests and Deacons of Rome. And although their dignity was named of some parish or Deaconship of Rome, yet they held their Bishoprics still and many other added to them, under the name of perpetual administration. As Tho. Wolsey, Archbishop of York, had the title of priest of S. Cicilies' parish in Rome, and perpetual administrator of the bishopric of York; Stow. Speed, etc. and of the other Bishoprics which he enjoyed by other tricks and titles our Chronicles reckon Tourney in France, Rainol. & Hart. cap. 7. div. 6. pag. 386. Onuphrius lib. de Rom. Pont. & Card. Lincoln, Winchester, , Worcester and Hereford in England: seven Bishoprickes, besides the Abbey of S. Alban's. Cardinal Hippolytus, being Deacon of S. Lucy's in Rome, & Archpriest of S. Peter's, had three Archbishoprics some hundreds of miles distant, Milan in Lombardy, Capua in Naples, Strigonium in Hungary; besides three other Bishoprics, one in Hungary, two in Italy, Agria, Mutina, and Ferrara. Though others had but 5 4, 3, 2, or but one. And if living failed to maintain the Cardinal's pomp, The pope's used reservations and provisions of Benefices (besides Bishoprics and Abbeys) such as then were void, Walsingam. hist. Angl. in Edw 3. or should next fall void) in all Countries, until they amounted to a certain rate (as of 2000 marks in England, for two new Cardinals in King Edward the thirds time: Onuph. in Rom. Pont. & Card. and the like for ten others in other Countries at the same time, newly created by pope Clement the sixth) This exceeding great Dignity and Wealth, meeting together, alured many to desire these places. And the politic pope's used to choose Cardinals of two sorts: some of Noble and potent families, to add strength by the alliance of Princes and great Nobles, and to get intelligence and Oars in their government: others of great wit and learning, by that means also to enlarge and uphold the Papacy against learned Adversaries. For even Princes and Nobles second sons, or other kinsmen wanting maintenance to support their Nobility, were either of themselves desirous, or might easily be induced to accept of such places: and their parents and friends were glad to be so eased of the charge to maintain them: and the whole families became thereby assured friends to the Papacy, and good instruments to uphold and defend it. On the other side many learned men, that wanted both Nobility and maintenance, and thirsted after both, by having such brave places bestowed upon them, took themselves to be bound, by all their wit, learning, and diligence to maintain them. But it was not altogether safe to have Cardinals in whom both these things, (Nobility of blood, and excellency of learning) did meet, lest knowing a double worthiness in themselves, they should not be so much beholden to their places, as their places to them: nor so pliable or ready to do their best in their defence, when they found themselves able to stand without them. These Cardinals of both sorts, by their kindred, wit, learning, policy, counsel, and diligence in managing the state, are great upholders of the Papacy: and yet beyond all this, the pope makes a further use of them: to wit, to show a needlessness of any counsels, either general or particular. Since that grave Senate of Cardinals is full sufficient to manage all the state of the whole Church, without further trouble to the world. Bellarmine confesseth that the particular Roman Counsels (exoleverunt) are worn out of use: Bellar. apologia ad praefationem monitoriam jacobi Regis. p. 39 & it seems (saith he) the Consistory of Cardinals succeeds in their place; See B. Andrew's answer to it, pag. 107. And the general Counsels, (as he calls them) which the Church hath had since the Cardinals came to the height which now they enjoy, (three at Lateran, two at Lions, one at Vienna, one at Constans, one at Flor●ns, and one at Trent) were not true general Counsels no better than the particulars of Rome (now vanished) since all things were done there according to the appetite of one man, and may more fitly be called, The decrees of Popes, than the Canons of Counsels; except only that of Constance, wherein matters were carried by the Deputies of Nations, the pope's brought into better order, three pope's at once abdicated, and where it was decreed that thenceforward there should be no more than 24 Cardinals: and that evermore within ten years a Council should be called: Things not performed, neither will be; and therefore it is wonder, the Cardinal would mention this Council. And why should he call the other, which he mentioneth, general, when the right manner of calling them, and of ordering them, and safe coming to them, and freedom of voices, were all taken away: If things be thus carried, what needs any Senate of the whole Church, when a Senate of present Cardinals, either can do all, or must do all? Therefore this invention, state, and choice of Cardinals, is a powerful, politic device to maintain the Papacy, and keep off the strongest opposition. §. 6. See relation of Religion in these Western parts. §. 13. etc. Monasteries also (as now they are used) are great upholders of the Papacy; in binding many thousands fast unto it, for their own maintenance. For there is entertainment for all sorts of people, Men, Women, Nobler, base, in the higher or lower places. They are Havens, or final Refuges to receive men of discontented humours, or despairing passions, or unfortunate, or unfit for other Trades, or disgraced or crossed in the world, or distasted with the world, or tired out with enemies or wanting maintenance: there they may be discharged of toils and cares, and provided for without charge to their parents or friends, to the great ease of parents, and better portions of their other brethren, who are all bound to the Abbeys and Papacy for this benefit. And there are such diversities of orders, and degrees of Monasteries, in strictness or slackness of their rules, that in one or other, every humour may receive contentment: the more devout and melancholic, in the more severe and austere orders, the loser, in orders of greater liberty. All of them for present maintenance without care, and protection without fear; and for hope of rising to higher and higher places (among such multitudes and diversities:) must needs love and defend to the uttermost of their powers, the authors of their welfare. And though they have frequent fastings and prayers, etc. yet with a little use they can endure it well, as matters nothing comparable to the benefits they receive: these are but physic to keep them alive against the diseases, which else their ease and fullness at other times would breed. And their delights are many, to content them and the rest of the world: inward hope that all their outward courses highly please God, and they live in a state of perfection, fare above the best of ordinary Christians, meriting heaven & many blessings, both for themselves and others their benefactors: they have their legends, and familiar relations of visions, miracles, apparitions, and revelations, much pleasing the credulous superstitious and fantastical: they have their sweet Music, glorious shows, beautiful Images, rich vestments, variable ceremonies, for the admiration of the simple Their Cities and great places abound in all variety, both of things and times, and orders to content and delight the several humours of all; their baits to allure, their hooks to retain all kind of people. One day, all Masks, Plays, and lollity: another day, all Processions, Fasting, and whipping themselves: upon one door an Excommunication, casting down to Hell all trangressors; upon another, a jubilee or Pardon from all transgressions: on one side of the street, a house of veiled Nuns; on the other side an house of open Courtesans: and the Stews allowed for a pension paid to the pope, as well as the Nuns. Never was any state in the world so strangely compacted of infinite varieties to please variety of humours: and so strongly combined to maintain the Masterpiece. Never was any prince so able to prefer his servants and followers (and that at other men's cost) as the pope: nor so able (quickly and easily) to take deep revenge of his enemies. His authority is so great, & so settled in base people's hearts; his power so strong; and adherents so many, his agents so quick to execute his will: that any sin against him, is unpardonable; and on the other side, any sin, either against God, or Nature, or prince, or State, by intercession to him and respective attendance on his Officers, may be dispensed with, or pardoned, or passed by without disturbance. §. 7. See Relation of Religion in the West, §. 17. See B. White against Fisher. pag. 186. etc. Auricular confession, pretended for repentance, reformation, direction, and comfort of sinners (and might with some cautions be profitably used to those purposes) yet, by the abuse, doth yield to the Romish, great benefit for the managing of affairs; since thereby they pry into the hearts, dispositions, consciences, and humours of all men, Nobles and inferiors, in every Country: whereby the more wise and politic sort (which are confessors to great men) may come to know many secret carriages of businesses; and also, who are the fittest instruments to be employed, either in furthering or crossing their designs; and by enjoining penance, may make great use of the dispositions, which by such confessions are discovered. Beside the gifts which they may wring from them upon their deathbeds, or other sicknesses. Of all which, I wish there were no examples or practices. §. 8. As we find the former policies make principally for the pope's greatness, strength, and honour, setting him up above all the world, Clergy and Laity: so we find many others notably contrived to furnish him and his agents, with treasure answerable to so great a State. Beside his temporals given by great Princes, or won from them and others by power or policy: his come in are great from Abeyes, Bishoprics, and Benefices, their Institutions, Inductions, Inuestitures, palles, first fruits, tenths, subsidies, and other impositions upon occasions, or at his pleasure. And by suits to the Court of Rome, of Controversies from all Countries, and by appeals, reservations, exemptions, Relation of Religion in the West. §. 38. pag. 98, 99 dispensations, and other rich inventions. Abbeys (many of them) have extrordinary faculties granted them, whereby they gather much money: but the pope useth them as sponges to drink what juice they can from the people, that afterwards he may wring them out one by one into his own Cistern. When Religious houses and Bishoprics wax rich, his Holiness lets them blood in their over-full veins. The masses of money were infinite, that from all Countries of Christendom came in this way; so that their temporals (which should have been their principal) was then but an accessary addition to their greatness, The people likewise paid their Peterpence, Usher. de success. eccle. cap. 7. §. 8, 9, 10. which in England was confirmed by W. Conqueror, and made an yearly tribute, although the same King denied to take the oath of fidelity to the pope. §. 9 Purgatory is a most politic device, as it is now held, to bring in great store of treasure to the pope's coffers. The pope hath the keys of that terrible burning prison, wherein souls must fry, which have not on earth satisfied for their sins, until they have paid the uttermost farthing; except the pope by Masses, Pardons Pilgrimages, Offerings, and such like, let them out. Which helps are not to be afforded without payment of money, testifying their repentance: But upon good payments to his Holiness and the Church's uses, men may redeem their own, or their friends souls from suffering there for any sins at certain rates. A Merchandise as profitable for the Pope's Church triumphant on earth, as unprofitable for the patiented in that fire. §. 10 Rossensis contra Lutherum art. 18. fol. 111. Quamdiu nulla fuerat de purgatorio cura, nemo quae sivit indulgentias, etc. Indulgences were begun by urban 2. anno 1100. saith hist. council. Trent. pag. 4. Upon this opinion of Purgatory (as D. Fisher, Bishop of Rochester saith) dependeth the use of Pardons and Masses for the dead, and such like. These Pardons were sent abroad to all Countries, to gather up money for the Pope's uses, and set souls free from Purgatory: and the abuse of Pardoners was so great, that finally it caused M. Luther to oppose them, and from them to proceed to detect many other abuses of the Papacy. Pardons likewise were extended to them that went on pilgrimage to the Shrines, Images or Relics of Saints, and there offered up their money and devotions. Which was an incredible enriching of those towns in every Kingdom, where such Images and Relics were, and to which the good pope had granted such Indulgences: and where the Inhabitants had spread abroad that strange miracles and cures were wrought, that town or City was made for ever, it needed none other maintenance. But such blessings were neither purchased gratis nor continued without gratifications to the pope. Such was at Walsingham in England, See Erasm. colloquium. Peregrinatio Religionis ergo. in our Grandfather's days, Thomas Beckets shrine, Vbi omnia auro ni enter (saith Erasmus) where all shone with gold, wealth, and magnificence, in the Temple and town, to the great admiration of the beholders. And now, or lately, the Lady of Laureto in Italy, the Lady of Hales, the Lady of Aspricol in Germany, miraculous Images, draw hearts of people, and heaps of gold, the greatest miracle they work, and the greatest cure to cure the town of poverty. More specially, in later times the stations in Rome are used to this purpose; that is, unto certain Churches, Saints and Images in Rome, there are appropriated certain Indulgences to be granted upon the appointed Sundays or Holidays to all the visitors thereof, that come and offer upon the said days. And of these stations and visiting days there are reckoned at least 89 in the year: Moulins Defence. pag. 161. Erasman Mat. 11. pag. 55. Anno 1540 wherein pilgrims and travellers come from all Countries to Rome, to the great enriching of the Temples and the City. The like Indulgences are granted also to the Visitors of some other places upon the like days. And this shows us a notable politic and rich use of the multitude of their Holidays. For the more Festival days, the more going to the offering, the more frequent pardons. Those are the Market days for that Traffic: when other Tradesmen shut up their shops, the priests open theirs. Poor men's hands are tied with scrupulous Idleness, from getting their own living upon such Holidays, and made wickedly devout against their wills, to maintain the Incomes of devout superstition. §. 11. And yet they have gone further. Bonifiace 8. Rainold. & Hart. cap. 7. diuis. 5. pag. 338. et 390. (of whom it is said. He entered like a Fox, reigned like a Lion, and died like a Dog) in the year, 1300. ordained a jubilee to be every hundredth year, with grant to all people that in those years should come to Rome, and visit the sepulchers of Peter and Paul, and other Monuments or Relics; a full pardon of all their sins, and that they should go directly to heaven without coming at all in Purgatory. These jubilees were afterwards drawn to every fiftieth year, and lastly to twenty five. And because some Countries lay fare from Rome, the pope's would grant and proclaim that it should be sufficient to send their money, without coming themselves. Polydor Virgil, writing the History of England, saith, that in the year 1500 (a principal year of jubilee) Pope Alexander 6. sent to King Henry 7. (as into all other remote Nations) offers of pardons usual at jubiles, to all that for dangers, distances, weakness, etc. could not come to Rome, if they would give bountifully towards the Wars which he intended against the Turk. And that the King might more willingly further this gathering, the pope offered him part of the money. Whereupon great sums of money were gathered: but yet no wars with the Turk followed, Dij meliora. Thus writes Polydore Virgil. Hist. conc. Trent. lib. 1. pag. 4, 5. And within 20 years after (anno 1517.) pope Leo, partly to supply his own Coffers, and partly to bestow more liberally on his friends, sent an Indulgence throughout all Christendom, granting to all that would give money, freedom from the pains of Purgatory, licence to eat eggs and whitmeats on Fasting days, etc. and the money which should be gathered in Saxony, and some other parts of Germany, he appointed to his sister Magdalene, wife to Franceschetto Cibo, bastard son of Jnnocent 8. by reason of which marriage, this Leo was created Cardinal at 14 years of age; which was the first beginning of the Ecclesiastical greatness in the house of the Medici. She committed the preaching of the Indulgences and exacting of the money to such as promised to raise the most profit by them: and they used most wicked and scandalous courses, to abuse the people's credulousness, withdraw them from the true way of salvation, and drain them of their worldly maintenance. Which abuses M. Luther, and many other learned men could not endure with silence, and being once opened to the world, both Princes and people opposed them. By these few Relations, you may guess at other times what hath been done. And you may well think, that never any Prince could so easily and so quickly get together such masses of money out of his own Countries, as the pope could do out of all Countries of Christendom: and that he could never want as long as he could hold a pen in his hand. For by strange Alchymistry he can turn a little piece of Lead into a great mass of gold. §. 12. Observe here by the way, that to maintain the great profit that comes in by purgatory and pardons, the pope's positions found a necessity to corrupt the true ancient Doctrine of justification; and to teach otherwise then Saint Paul and the Fathers had done: to wit; that a man endued with God's grace, is able to fulfil the whole Law: and consequently that he may be justified by his own works, and that his works are truly meritorious of eternal life: yea, further, that he is able to do works of supererogation (that is, more than he needed to do for his own salvation) even works that may be imputed or ascribed unto other men (that want) to merit their delivery out of purgatory: and that these super-abundant merits (or works of supererogation) may by the pope (Christ's Vicar or Vicegerent) be applied, given (or sold) to whom he thinks good. A acquaint devise! but without all this, purgatory, pardons, pilgrimages, Masses for the dead, etc. are to no purpose. If Saint Paul's doctrine (of justification by Christ's merits only) stand; then have we no merits; if no merits, no supererogation: if no super-erogatory merits, than no pardons: if no pardons, surely either no purgatory, or no deliverance by the pope from thence: and then a great deal of the pope's income is cut off. But (horres●o ref●rens) rather then that earthly treasure be diminished, the spiritual and heavenly treasure and worth of Christ's merits be diminished: the sound Doctrine of justification corrupted: man's freewill, merit, supererogation, pardons, and other gainful doctrines appendent thereunto, devised, magnified, and established. Saint Paul said, 1 Tim. 6.6, 9, 10. Godliness is great gain: these men make great gain to be godliness. He saith, They that will be rich, fall into temptations, snares, foolish and hurtful lusts— and that the love of money is the root of all evil, which while some have coveted after, they have erred from the faith— Alas, that they that hold the chiefest places in the Church, should be of that number. §. 13. I omit Crucifixes, Beads, Annulets, Grains, Medals, and other things of great virtue, sent from the pope to be hanged about people's necks, or otherwise worn about them, 1 Cor. 3.12. as defensatives against evil spirits and other dangers: which, though they may be thought to be but hay and stubble; yet when your Mida● hath touched them, they are taken for pure gold, and of great virtue, fare fetched and dear bought. §. 14. To omit these and many other things, I will speak only of extraordinary exactions, and in our Country only, An. Dom. 1245. Regis 29. or especially. Matthew of W●stmi●st●r, ●n his book, called Flores Historiarum writing of King Henry the thirds t●me, says, that the K●ng (upon search through every County of England) found the Roman revenues to amount to threescore thousand marks by year equal to the King's revenues And yet the pope's exactions were so great beside, Pag. 195. that our Nobles made complaints thereof both by words an● writing, in the counsel of Lions, showing the ●ntollerable grievances & oppressions of the pope's Officers, most impudently & violently done, & that by the pope's Commission & command, with a non obstante, which took away all laws or rights, and authentic writings. The pope for the present put off his answer, being busied with excommunicating F●edericke the Emperor. But afterwards, enraged with anger and disdain at their complaints, he multiplied their oppressions without measure or end. So that a Parliament was called to take some course to save the land from utter spoil and ruin of the pope: Pag. 206, 207. and all men rejoiced to see the King's courage and constancy, hoping now they should be powerfully delivered from the injuries of the Court of Rome. And first, several letters were sent to the pope and Cardinals, wr●tten by the Bishops and by the King, and by the Abbots and Priors and by the Earl Richa●d and all the Nobles with him, all humbly petitioning to spare the exhausted Realm of England, and recall the grievances (which in their letters they rehearsed) which letters were penned in such pitiful sort, that they were able to soften an heart of iron (saith the story.) But they received hard answers, Pag. 209, 210, 217. and drew more misery still upon them. For the pope shortly after demanded of every Beneficed man in England, resident on his charge, a third part, and of non residents, an half of their goods for th●ee years; which provoked all Christ and in England to hate and curse the pope. And diu●rs Noblemen of France, (to wit, the Duke of Burgundy the E● le of Britain, the Earl of Saint P●ul, and many other) conspired against ●im, and b●gan a Sch sme which t●● published in writing (which is extent in ●he ●●ory, and in M●●●● 〈◊〉 persuading all men to reform, and live after the fashion of the Primitive Church. Anno 1247. But the State and Clergy of England, wrote again to the pop● and Cardinals, for ease from these exactions, giving notice also of a dangerous Shisme else like to follow. This caused the pope somewhat to mitigate the exaction in England, and draw down to slauen thousand marks to be paid for his present necessities. Which sum our Bishops thought best to grant, to avoid the Roman greater persecution. But out of this payment they left out all the Abbots of England, pag. 219. to be deeplier fleeced by the Court of Rome. At the same time also the pope got up six thousand marks in Jreland: and in other Countries what could be raked up. pag. 210 After all this, new exactions came upon the English, especially upon the Abbots, and exempted persons. pag. 222. Of one Abbey of S. Alban, the pope's Officer demanded four hundred marks: which yet the pope was afterward induced to mitigate. Math. Paris in ulla Henrici tertij. See also Speeds Chron. in Henry 3. nu. 52, 57, 60. anno 1234. In the same King's reign, Mathy Paris saith, that by the pope's [mandata de providendo] for illiterate Italian Clerks, and [Gratiae expectativae] (to wit, in giving Benefices, as they fell void, to Italians that never came at them, but had the yearly revenues thereof in money brought into Italy to them) there went out of the land yearly more treasure than the King's revenues amounted unto. And because it was not possible that the English of themselves should be always funished with money to be sent in such sums out of the land: the pope's Merchants (as they called them) that is, men sent hither for that purpose, supplied them with money upon usury: and the Roman Farmers and Proctors (like greedy Harpies) scraped up all into their hands to the great impoverishing and misery of the English. So that holy men, with heart-breakings, tears, and deadly groans (singultu cruentato, saith Paris) professed it were better for them to die, then to see such miseries upon their Nation, and upon holy men: the Daughter of Zion becoming such an impudent Harlot. Against which, Robert Grosthead, Bishop of Lincoln, opposeth himself, writing to the Pope (his Epistle is extant in Mathy Paris) that his detestable, abominable, soule-murdering actions, did evince him to be an Heretic, worthy of death, yea, to be Antichrist, and to sit in the chair of pestilence, next to Lucifer h mselfe: and that he had no power to excommunicate such as resisted these his actions. Paris telleth further, that King Henry requiring the Prelates to bind themselves to the Pope's Merchants for a great sum of money: they replied, English Prelates counted it rather Martyrdom to dye against the Pope, then for him. that they would rather dye then suffer such oppression: holding it a more manifest Martyrdom to dye in such a cause, than was the death of Thomas Becket. See, you that love the Pope so well, what a blessing you would bring upon the Land, by restoring his authority: which our forefathers counted a burden most untollerable. Antiquus. Matthy Paris is noted to take too much delight in speaking evil of the Pope: and Matthy of Westminster received his Narrations from him; and both were too much affected to their own Country. Antiquissimus. They were both of the Romish Religion, the one a Monk of Saint Alban's, the other a Monk of Westminster Abbey: both delighted to speak the truth, and spoke well of the Popes, wherethey saw cause: and related other Country's affairs with as upright affections as their own. Paris saith, that the injustice, impiety, and dishonesty (bear with these words, they are his own) of the Court of Rome, made the Greek Church then to fall away, and to oppose itself against the Roman: and that shortly afterwards, the Church of Antioch excommunicated the Pope and his Church, for usurping primacy over them: and being also defiled with Simony, Usury, Avarice, and other heinous offences. And we read the same things plentifully delivered in all foreign Historians, Nauclere, Vrspergensis, Krantzius, Aventinus, Schasuaburgensis, Frisingensis, Trithenius, etc. Vrspergensis in Chron. pag. 307. Abbas Vrspergensis, at his being at Rome, (seeing among other infinite means and mines of wealth) a great confluence of causes litigious about Bishop's places, and all other Ecclesiastical dignities, and Parish Churches, out of all Countries, running to the Court of Rome, there to be decided: He applauds Rome with the Apostrophe. Rejoice, O Mother Rome, for unto thee are opened the Cataracts of treasures in the earth! To thee run the Rivers and mountains of money in great plenty. Be Jovial for the iniquity of the sons of men, etc.— thou hast that which thou always thirstedst after: Sing thy song, that by the wickedness of men, not by thine own Religion, thou hast overcome the world. Men are drawn to thee, not by their devotion, or pure conscience; but by perpetrating manifold mischiefs, and for decision of their Controversies, to thee most gainful. Antiquus. Sir, suppose all you have alleged be true for the substance: will you condemn the wisdom policy, and zeal of the Church, or any members thereof, for the undiscreet managing of it by some particulars? Is not wisdom, policy, power, and zeal, necessary to maintain good Doctrine, good government, and to win souls? and must not learned men and good governors be maintained with wealth, befitting their estate and dignity, to keep them from contempt and poverty? are not all these things necessary? Antiquissimus. Yes undoubtedly, very necessary and commendable, but under colour of necessity, you may not allow policies contrary to true piety, and God's Word, such as I alleged, to wit, The barring of the Scriptures from God's people, to keep them in ignorance. The disannulling of the Apostles ordinance of placing preachers resident in Cities and Towns subject to Bishop's jurisdictions, who may look to their good life and sound doctrine; and instead of them, to allow and privilege ambulatory preachers to preach what they list, maugre all Bishops and their Officers. Yea, to instill into the people's minds false doctrines, treasonous and rebellious practices, to the disturbance and destruction of Kingdoms and commonwealths: who find it best fishing in troubled waters, and fish not for men's souls, but for Kingdoms, to subjugated all to the Dominion of R●me or Spain: nor the gathering of wealth by wrongs or oppressions, to the undoing of people, and making the Religion of GOD to stink in their nostrils, as Helies wicked sons did, 1 Samuel Chapter 2. verse 27. Wherefore the sin of the young men was very great before the Lord: for men abhorred the offering of the Lord. Antiquus. Well Sir, to let this pass, If you describe these polices truly, they are very potent: those of the society of jesus are very learned, diligent, zealous, and constant, to endure all labours, pains and perils, to win men: their policies, and plots are so strongly laid, constantly followed, wisely managed, and powerfully backed with the Pope and Cardinals; yea, with Kings, Princes, and States, favouring them, or tied to the Pope by some necessitudes: that they are unresistable; and therefore you may do well to yield to them in good time; for such wisdom, strength, and policy will prevail. Antiquissimus. Think not so, Antiquus. This arm of flesh, be it never so strong, is too weak for the arm of the Lord. Note what is written in the Revelation, cap. 17. verse 12, 13, 14. The ten horns are ten Kings: these have one mind, they give their power and strength unto the Beast; these shall make war with the Lamb: but the Lamb shall overcome them; for he is the Lord of lords, and King of kings. And they that are with him, are called and chosen, and faithful. The power and policy of Babylon should not amate us, but animate us. Chap. 2. sect. 8. Reuel. 18.9. to the chapters end. Tu contra audentiùs ito. For Babylon shall fall (Revelations chapter 18. verse 2. etc.) and Rome is that Babylon (your men grant it, as I have showed) therefore Rome shall fall, and her fall shall be woeful, doleful, and irrecoverable. The Kings and Merchants her friends shall bewail her; the world shall stand amazed, and God's people shall rejoice at her fall. She must fall fully and finally: and she hath begun to fall already; See History of the Council of Trent. pag. 4. even when Pope Leo the tenth thought that state in greatest security, than came an unexpected blow from one contemned man, Luther, which shaken her foundations: and since that time she hath shrunk continually, and settled lower. All the props of strength and policy have not been able to raise or hold her up. She hath all policies on her side; the Protestants have none, but the plain downright truth, and ordinary teaching, as Christ hath prescribed: and yet that plain truth hath prevailed against all her power and policies. FINIS. A JUSTIFICATION OF THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND. THE SECOND BOOK. CHAP. 1. The first Chapter is a full discourse of the visibility of the Church, and showeth where the Church of the Protestants was before Luther's time. This Chapter is large, to give the fuller satisfaction, and for better perspicuity, is divided into four Sections. The first Section showeth how visible the true Church ought to be. The second showeth that the Protestants Church hath evermore been so visible, as the true Church of Christ ought to be: in the ancient Primitive Church. Greek and Eastern Church. The third section delivereth a sufficient historical discourse of the Waldenses proving the point. The fourth section showeth that the Church of Rome (excepting the Papacy, and the maintainers thereof) continued to be the true Church of God until Luth●rs ●●me, and was all one in substance with ours. The first section is subdivided into subsections: and they into to many smaller Paragraffes, noted thus §. The first subsection sheweth §. 1. An objected description of the excellency of the Church, and a necessity of the perpetual succession and visibility thereof. §. 2. That for a thousand years and more, our Church was all one with the Roman. §. 3. After that corruptions grew intolerable in the Roman Church, many yet misliked them, and held the truth. §. 4. The whole Catholic Church can never be visible to men at once, but parts of it may and must. §. 5. The promises of purity and eternal life, do not belong to all the called, but to the few chosen: which to men are invisible, though their persons and profession be visible. §. 6. And this, Bellarmine and many other Romanists yield. §. 1. Antiquus. YOu show no wisdom in disgracing thus the Church of Rome; for you must derive your Church from it, or else you have no succession from the Apostles, and consequently no Church at all, and therefore no possibility of salvation. You that so much glory in the Scriptures, do you not mark how the Scriptures describe the Church? calling it a Ephe. 2.19. the City of our Lord, b Ib. & Hebr. 3.2, 6. the house of God, c Cantic. 4.12. a Garden enclosed, a spring shut up, a fountain sealed, d Psal. 80.8. our Lord's vineyard, of his own planting, e 1 Tim. 3.15. the pillar of truth, f Psal. 27.13. the land of the living, g Cantic 4.15. the fountain of living waters, h Eph. 6.25, etc. the Spouse of Christ, who gave himself for it, who sanctifieth and cleanseth it, and maketh it a glorious Church, without spot or wrinkle, that it may be holy and without blemish: and (to omit other titles) i 1 Pet. 3.20. compares it to the Ark of No, out of which there is no salvation from the deluge of sin. And to the end that by it all men may come to the knowledge of the truth, and be saved, it must be visible, conspicuous, and mounted aloft as a City upon a hill k Mat. 5.14. , seen of all the world, shining to all the world, & so continuing to the end of the world, with continual succession of holy government, teaching, administering the Sacraments without interruption. For, if it be hidden or invisible any time, how can it teach the people, convert Pagans, dispense Sacraments, glorify God, lead men to salvation? Therefore the holy scriptures describe this Church to be most ample, conspicuous, and not only gracious but glorious. l Psal. 45.9. This Queen is all glorious, in a vesture of gold, wrought about with diverse colours; to whom the daughter of Tyre, and all Nations bring gifts: signifying the magnificence of the Church gathered of all the Gentiles. m Esay 2.2, 3, 4, 18, 20. & cap. 49.5, 6, 7, 23. & 60.3, 4, etc. It is the holy mountain of the Lord, to which all Nations shall come: and Kings and Queens should come and do homage unto it. n ●sal. 72.8 etc. Micah. 4.1. David magnifies this Church, as extending from Sea to Sea, and from the River to the world's end: adding, that the Aethiopians should fall down (before the great Messiah) the Kings of Tharshish and of the Isles should bring presents, the Kings of Arabia & of Saba should offer gifts; yea, all kings should fall down before him, and all Nations should serve him. The Messiah himself saith, o joh. 12.31, 32. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out; and I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Meaning, by his passion to draw all Nations of the world from heathenish Idolatry, to become members of his holy Church. Now instead of this conspicuous & glorious Church, you Protestants obtrude unto us an obscure latent, invisible Church, unseen in the world for more than a thousand years, or rather never seen before Luther's time. But if these prophecies of the Scriptures concerning the glory and amplitude of the Church, be true (as they are most true) then is the conspicuous Church of Rome, the true Church, and your so long latent visible Church the false. §. 2. Antiquissimus The wisdom which we use, is not grounded upon unsound policies, but upon standing to the sound truth (which is great and will prevail) the disgraces of the Romish Hierarchy, we either read in your own Authors (who writ them necessario potiùs quam libenter, as wrested from them by the truth, rather than of any itching humour to disgrace it) or we observe them with our own eyes, so manifest that they cannot be hid, so bad that they cannot be excused. The prophetical promises to the Church which you allege, w●th all reverence we do acknowledge: and we confess that within the first thousand years after Christ, (before ●atan was loosed, Reuel. 20.2 and 7 8.) the most of them wer● fulfilled: and principally in the first age● of th●t period; when the Church was by the Apostles and their successors propagated to the Gentil●●, and planted in all Nations: and while the Church of Rom tau●ht the same pure doctrine which we now do and while your Church and ours, and all other particular Churches in the world, were one Catholic Church. And although some errors and abuses began to creep into the Church of Rome within that time, and we●e by many espied and reproved; yet were they not imputed to the whole Church of Rome, but to a faction breeding in it. Neither were they so great, ●t so largely spread, or so strongly defended, or of such regard, as to make any such breach or manifest seper t●on, as in the following ages ensued. So that in t●e fir●● thousand of years, the holy prophecies by you allea●ge● make nothing more for your Church than ours, ●ot●ing more against our Church then against yours: yours and ours being then both one Church. §. 3. S●con●ly, we affirm that when the Church of Rome grew untollerably corrupt by men's traditions and new inventions, especially in the Hierarchy thereof: there wanted not multitudes of good Christians, both separated from the community thereof, that followed their better teachers, and professed still the pure ancient Doctrine: and other multitudes also living in community with the unsound Romish governors, groaning under their corruptions, and longing for reformation: which made a full sufficient visible Church, to whom the prophetical promises belonged, and in whom they were fulfilled, so much as was intended by them. Which that you may the better understand, Handled in this section. consider first more thoroughly the nature of the promises and state of the Church, as it must be in these later ages: and secondly the state of our Church, fully agreeing thereunto, and the state of yours, disagreeing. You that cannot endure to hear of any kind of invisibility of the Church, Handled in the second section. must of necessity admit of some kind thereof, or else you involve all in confused obscurity. First if you take the Church for the whole Catholic Church, that is, universal both in time and place, §. 4. See Aug. in Psal. 92. continued throughout all Ages, and dispersed in all places (in which sense only the Church is Catholic and one) than it is a point of fa●th, and not of sight. For it is visible totally at any one time or place to any mortal eyes. Some part thereof being in Europe, some in Asia, some in Africa, for place: some part in heaven triumphant, some on earth militant, some not yet in the world, for time. We believe therefore that there is one Catholic Church (we see but a small part of it) that is, one universal company of Christians, spread over the whole earth, and continuing from the Apostles times till the day of judgement, (part whereof is now in heaven, part on earth, and part yet to come) called to be professors of God's worship, and partakers of his glory through jesus Christ his son And though this whole company be never visible to men at once, yet some parts thereof living upon earth are always visible to men, by their persons and profession: some at one time some at another: some in one Country some in another: as the Church of Jerusalem, and of Antioch, of Rome, Corinth, Galatia, etc. In the Apostles times: the seven Churches of Asia in S. john's time: the Churches of England France, and other Nations in our time. §. 5. Secondly, if you take the Church for the company of Christians, living in any one particular Age, and thereunto apply the prophetical promises: you must admit a threefold distinction, one of the parts of the Church another of the promises appliable to the several parts, and a third of the times wherein they are to be fulfilled. For, a D. White Reply to Fisher, pag. 52. most of the promises, though in general terms made to the Church in common (to show what the whole is in respect of Gods outward vocation, or what the office and duty of the whole Church is) yet do appertain formally and indeed only to the better part of the common subject. As your own Doctors teach b Cornel. de rapide come. Esa. cap. 2. v. 4 Cum Deus aliquid Synagoga vel Ecclesiae permittit, quamvis ampl● & universal bus v●rbis, ●● tamen de bonis & proba tantum, qui sae●●s & amicitiam cum deo promittente & pa●iscente, servant, intelligendum. . The Scriptures give us a distinction of the Called and Chosen: saying, Many be called, but few chosen, Mat. 20.16. The Called are the Professors: and the Professors (saith your c Bellar. de Eccles●. militant lib. 3. cap. 2. §. nostra autem sententia. Bellarmine) are the members of the true Church, though they be (reprobi, scelesti, & impij) reprobates, wicked, and impious. For (saith he) to be a member of the Church, there is not necessarily required any inward virtues, but only outward profession. But (I hope) you will not say, that to this company in gross, these promises do belong, of purity, unspottedness eternal life: but only to the better part thereof, that is the Chosen, that truly believe, and holily live, according to Christ's doctrine which company, (because who they are, is only known to God the discerner of the hearts, and not to men who see only their persons and profession but not their hearts,) may well be called, in respect of men, The invisible Church, as visible to God only. The Holy Ghost describing the true members of the Church, calls them, such as should be saved, Acts 2.47. The Lord added to the Church such as should be saved. And this is the ordinary doctrine of d Aug. de Bapt. contra Donatis●as lib. 6. cap. 3. Auari, raptores, faencratores, invidi, malevoli, ad sanctam ecclesiam dei, non pertinent, quamvis esse videantur: illa autem columba unica, pudica, & casta, sponsa sine macula & ruga, hortus conclusus, sons signatus, paradisus cum fructu pomorum, etc. non intelligitur nisi de bonis, & sanctis, & iustis,— intim●m & supereminentem spiritus sancti gratiam habentibus. S. Augustine, that true godly men, such as shall be saved, are the only heirs of the promises: the covetous, ravenous, usurers, envious, malevolous, do not belong to the holy Church of God, though they seem to be in it. That only Dove, that chaste and pure Spouse, without spot or wrinkle, that garden enclosed, fountain sealed, paradise of Pomegranates, etc. is not understood but of the good, holy, and just,— such as have the inward and supereminent grace of the holy spirit. Thus Saint Augustine. Again e Aug. ib. lib. 7. cap. 51. he saith, All things considered, I think I shall not rashly say, that some are so in the house of God, that they are also the very house of God, which is said to be built upon a Rock, which is called his only Dove, his fair Spouse without spot or wrinkle, etc.— for this is in the good, faithful, The like De unitate eccle. cap. vlt. & Epist. 48. & De Bapt. court Donat. lib. 5. c. 27. & in praesatione in Psal. 47. & De doctr. Christiana. lib. 3. cap. 22. In the rules of Tychonius De corpore Domini bipartito. and holy servants of God, every where dispersed, and yet conjoined in spiritual unity, and in the same communion of the Sacraments, whether they know one another by face or not. And it is certain that others are said so to be in the house, that they belong not (ad compagem domus) to the frame of the house, nor to the society of fruitful & peaceful righteousness, but as the chaff among the Corn, &c— of whom it is said, They departed from us, but they were not of us. In many other places Saint Austen hath the like. Insomuch as Bellarmine being overpressed with the Scriptures and Fathers, and especially Saint Augustine, §. 6. cannot but yield, and saith, in plain terms; f Bellar. de eccle. milit. lib 3 cap. 2. §. nota●dum autem. that wicked men without any internal virtue, are no otherwise members of the Church, than our excrements and diseases are parts or members of our bodies, as our hairs, our nails, and evil humours in our bodies, and elsewhere. g Ib. cap. 9 §. Ad ultimum a●o, malos non esse membra viva corporis Christi, & hoc significari illis scriptures (obiectis.) He saith that evil men are no other than dead members of Christ's body; and he citeth many learned Papists that say, (Malos non esse membra vera, nec simpliciter corporis ecclesiae, sed tantum secundum quid, & aequivocè.) That evil men are not true members, nor simply of the body of the Church, but only after a sort, and equivocally. His Authors alleged there, are johannes de Turrecremata, Alexander de Alice, Hugo, B. Thomas, Petrus à Soto, Melchior Canus, & alij. I will conclude this point with Saint Augustine, who saith, h Aug lib. 2. contra Cre●conium cap. 21. Ac per hoc etiam nesciente ecclesia, propter malam pollutamque conscientiam da●nati a Christo, ●am in corpore Christi non sunt, quod est ecclesia, ●uoniam non potest Christus habere membra damnata. Though the Church know them not, yet they that are condemned by Christ for their evil and defiled conscience, are not now in the body of Christ, which is the Church, because Christ cannot have any damned members. To which place, and many other like, cited out of Saint Augustine, Bellarmine i Bellar. ib. §. Argum●ntum octawm. answereth, That wicked men are not of the true inward part of the Church, but of the outward only, as he had said before, not true members, nor simply of the Church, but equivocally. By all this (I hope) you see our Doctrine and distinctions agree with the truth taught by the Scriptures and Fathers, and your best learned men, to which even Bellarmine himself (after much disputing and shifting) is compelled to yield. And though you are loath to allow us the terms of visible and invisible (the one noting the outward mixed number of professors, the other the purer part of the Church, to whom the promises belong, and who are only known of God:) yet you are compelled to yield us the matter meant by them. Antiquus. If you mean no other thing by those terms, we yield you both the matter and the terms; But, Subsection. 2. §. 1. Some promises of God concern the outward spreading of the Church, some the inward graces. §. 2. The outward spreading and glorious visibility, is not at all times alike. §. 3. So S. Ambrose, and S. Austen teach, by comparing the Church to the Moon. §. 4. Many Fathers and Romish Doctors say, that in the time of Antichrist, the Church will be obscure, and hardly visible. §. 5. Which (say Valentinianus, and many Fathers) was fulfilled in the Arrians time. §. 6. The Jesuit, Valentinianus grants as much invisibility of the Church, as Protestants desire. §. 7. Observations out of his grant. If you mean that the whole true Church may be latent and invisible many years, §. 1 without being seen of the world by her Government, Doctrine, and Sacraments: we deny all possibility of such invisibility. Antiquissimus. We never held or taught any such thing. See B. Wh●●e against Fishe●. pag. 62. Now then since you yield us those distinctions of the Church, and grant that the most or best of the promises, belong only to the better part thereof, which is only known unto God, and not to all the professors that are visible to men: I go forwards to distinguish of the promises: whereof some are of the outward amplitude, largeness, & spreading of the Church to all Nations (whereas formerly it had been shut up in the land of Canaan only) and of outward subjection of Kings and peoples to the profession of the truth. Some are of the inward purity, grace, and holiness of the Church, and of our Saviour's peculiar love unto it, uniting it as his immaculate Spouse unto himself, and making it partaker of his glory. The former are pliable to the visible Church, in the generality thereof. But it you apply the latter also to that whole visible company, you run into inextricable errors. For they are appliable only to the better and sounder part thereof, which is only discerned and known unto God, and in that respect invisible to men. This distinction you grant also in granting the former. I come therefore thirdly to The distinction of times; for the outward promises are not all at all times appliable to the outward visible Church: §. 2. or not at all times alike. For in some Ages the Church is more conspicuous then in other: yea, the false Church more conspicuous than the true. If you think the Church must be always gloriously visible to the end of the world without interruption, you are deceived. Consider one part of the Scripture with another. Esay 2.2. Mat. 7.14. You look upon Esayes' mountain, to which all must flow: but you see not Christ's straight gate and narrow way which few do find. Esay. 49.23. You note, how at sometimes Kings and Queens shall be nursing Fathers to the Church; but you note not that at another time, Reuel. 17.2. The Kings of the earth shall commit fornication with the Whore of Babylon: and the Inhabitants of the earth be made drunk with the wine of her fornication. Psal. 45.9. You think of a Queen all glorious in a vesture of gold, wrought about with diverse colours, to whom all Nations bring gifts (the Church spreading her glory to the Gentiles: Reuel. 12.1, 6. ) but you forget the woman flying into the Wilderness to hide herself from the rage of the Dragon: (which woman signifies the persecuted Church, by your Rhemish confession.) Mark 16.15. You remember well that the faith of Christ must be spread over the face of the earth: but you forget that towards Christ's coming there shall scarce be found any faith upon the earth. Luke 18.8. You remember that the Church shall extend from sea to sea, and from the River to the world's end; Psal. 72.8. and the Kings of Tharsis, Arabia, and Saba, shall bring gifts, and all Nations shall serve the Messiah. 2 Thess. 2.3, 4, 7. But you forget there must be an Apostasy, a revolt, a falling away, (which your Rhemists say, shall be from many points of true Religion) and that the man of sin shall sit in the Temple of God, carrying himself as if he were God (not in plain terms, but) in a mystery.) Saint a Ambr. Epist. lib. 5. ep. 31. Ambrose and S. b Aug. in Psal. 101. & De Temp. ser. 134. epist. 48. & ●●. Augustine compare the Church to the Moon, §. 3. which receives her light from the Sun, and sometime shineth in her full light, some times with half light, sometimes obscurely, and sometime is eclipsed. You would have this Moon always in the full. And if she show but little light to us, or be eclipsed, you will not yield she is the Moon. And yet (except in the eclipse) Astronomers demonstrate that the Moon hath at all times as much light as in the full: but oftentimes a great part of the bright side is turned to heaven, and a lesser part to the earth. And so the Church is ever conspicuous to God's eye, though it appear not always so to us. As when Elias thought there had been no more true servants of God but himself, yet God knew of 7000 more; though their names be not recorded. I pray you consider well these and other places of Scripture, that describe the Church persecuted, scattered and obscured, as well as those that describe the largeness, conspicuousness and glory of it. And remember the one must be true as well as the other, and each must have their times to be fulfilled in. So shall you run strait forward, and not on a bias as you have done. Consider the Doctrine of the Fathers, §. 4. B. Usher grau. quaest. cap. 6. §. 5. and of your own learnedest men, speaking especially of the time of Satan let lose. c Aug. epist. 80. a● Hesychium Saint Augustine saith, [Ecclesiam non app●rituram, impijs tunc persecutoribus ultra modum saevientibus.] The Church shall not appear, the impious persecutors then beyond measure raging. d Greg. in job lib. 9 cap. 29. Gregory, The Church as one weakened with old age, will scarce bring forth children by preaching. e Sermon d● consummatione mundi & Antichristo edit Colo●. 1603. pag. 219 Ephraim Syrus, Men will earnestly inquire, whether the Word of God be any where upon earth, and it will be answered, No where f Soto in 4. S●nt. dist. 40. q. 1. ●rt. 1. Dominicus à Soto, your great schoolman saith, That faith will be extinguished in the world, and under the leading of Antichrist, the City of God will be overthrown. And of preaching the Word of God, your g Aquin. Comment. in cap. 9 Apocal. Aquinas saith, At first when Antichrist is borne, before he have enlarged his power, there will be preaching: but after he is in his greatest domination, then preaching (he meaneth preaching of the truth) will be particular, and not (as now) general, nor so solemn as now. And before Aquinas, This wrote h Apud. Usher. ibid. Valent. post. lit. t. Usher. ib. §. 7. Joachimus Abbas Florensis; The whole Church of the Saints will be hidden, for so the Elect of God will be wise for themselves, that they will not presume to preach publicly (the darkness prevailing) not that they will cease to encourage and exhort the faithful more secretly, but because they will not dare to preach openly. §. 5. Haply you will appropriate this to be the last times of Antichrist (which your Doctors hold to be very short) but your Valentinianus extends it to other former times and applies it to the times of the Arrian Heresy. Of which i Nazian. initio Orat. 25. ad. Arianos. Nazianzen writes thus: Where are they now that object poverty unto us, and insolently brag of their riches? which define the Church by multitude, and scorn the little flock? whereof k See Hilar. contra Aurent. B●sil. ●pist. 70, 71. & Vitam. A●tonij inter o●●ra At●an●●ij other Fathers say l V●ncen●. 〈◊〉 commonitory. that almost the whole world was shooken with the cruel tempest of that sudden heresy: 〈◊〉 B●c●●ri. 〈…〉, so that it defiled not only the parts of the East and West, but entangled also the South and North, and the Lands, with the perfidiousness thereof: n Hieronymus contra Luciferianos. So that the whole world groaned, and wondered that it was become Arrian. But the o Athanasius epist. ad solitariam vitam agentes. godly, true followers of Christ (as that great Prophet Elias) were hidden, and thrust themselves into holes and dens of the earth, or continued wand'ring in the Wilderness. For, p Basil. epist. 69. avoiding the houses of prayer (which were then become schools of impiety) they were compelled to lift up their hands to the Lord in deserts: and q Vincent. Lirin. in commonitorio. the greatest part being thrust out and banished from the Cities, were among the deserts, holes, savage Beasts, and rocks, with hunger, thirst, nakedness, afflicted, worn and wasted. And r Basil. epist. 17. when they suffered the same things that their Fathers suffered, yet they were not thought to suffer for Christ, because their persecutors also were called by the name of Christians. Thus was it with the true Christians in the Arians times: thus with the Church of God in the middletimes, after Satan's losing: thus with the Protestants in those later times: all persecuted by them that called themselves Christians and Catholics, and held the chiefest places in the Christian world. And such was the paucity and obscurity of Christians in the Arians times, that S. s Basil. ib. Basil cries out, An Ecclesias suas prorsus reliquit dominus? Hath God verily forsaken his Church? Is it now the last hour? and doth the defection or departure thus take beginning, that now henceforth that man of sin, that son of perdition may be revealed? etc. But let us hear the very words of your own learned jesuite t Greg. de Val. Analysis fidei lib. 6. cap. 4. probatione 4. §. jam vero. §. 6. Gregory de valentia, who grants as much as we desire. Now to refute the cavils of Sectaries (saith he) Note— we do not say, The Church is always alike conspicuous, or always alike easy to be discerned. For we know it is sometimes tossed with the waves of Errors, Schisms, Persecutions; so that to the unskilful, not wisely esteeming the reasons of Times and Circumstances of things, it is hard to be known. Which then specially happened, when the perfidiousness of the Arians, domineered well near in all the world. For at that time wrote Saint jerom, that the ship of the Church was almost overwhelmed. And Hilary admonished in many words, that the Church at that time was not to be sought, In tectis & exteriori pompa, sed potius in carceribus & speluncis (not in houses or Temples and outward pomp, but rather in prisons and caves.) Therefore we deny not, but that it is harder to discern the Church one time then another. But this we affirm, that it may always be known of them that weigh things wisely. For in that very time when it seemed to be hid, compared with the times foregoing, it might be perceived, that the Church was not with the multitude of Innovators, but rather with those few who followed that which the ancient Fathers of the Church and all the faithful held, with great consent, and long continuance. Thus writes Gregory of Valence. §. 7. Out of which testimony I observe. 1 That he excludes the perpetual and uninterrupted glory of the Church, as not necessary, nor any mark of the Church, as you and many of your side make it. 2 He grants that the Church may be in a few, and not always in the great multitudes. 3 It may be only in secret places, prisons, dens, and caves, and not be found in temples and houses. 4 It may be hard to be discerned and known. 5 It is discerned and known (not to every one, but,) to them that weigh things wisely. 6 It is not with Innovators (such as bring in novelties, or new doctrines) but with them that hold what the ancient Church and Fathers held with great consent, and long continuance. This note makes wholly for the Protestants, who reform the Church according to the first and best times: and against the Church of Rome which hath brought in the worshipping of Images, the Pope's supremacy, half Communions, private Masses, sale of Pardons, and other things unknown to the Fathers and the Primitive Church. Antiquus. Of these things we shall consider hereafter. §. 2. The Protestant Church hath evermore been so visible as the Church of Christ ought to be. Subsection 1. §. 1. for it hath evermore taught the same doctrine which the Scriptures and the Fathers taught. §. 2. As appears by Irenaeus, Tertullian, and the Creeds. But, §. 3. The Romists Cannot allege the Fathers for their new Doctrines. Now, prove your Protestant Church to have been so visible in all Ages, as the Church of Christ ought to be, or else you have said nothing. Antiquissimus. It might be sufficient (according to your own Valentinianus) to show that our Church was sometime in some few, and them hidden as the woman in the Wilderness, Reuel. 12.6.) and unknown to the greatest part of the world, which weighed not times and things wisely; and was slandered by the persecutors thereof, as a false Church: But I will not take all advantages, but give you a full visibility thereof at all times. Subsection. 1. First I say, §. 1. our Church (for the doctrine thereof) is the same which the Primitive Church of Christ was for many ages. For neither it nor ours taught any other points of faith necessary to salvation, than such as are contained in plain places of the Scripture, or necessarily deducted from them by good consequence. When the Fathers are urged against B●llarmine in this point, he yields 1 De verbo De lib. 4 cap. 11. §. his notatis. that whatsoever the Apostles publicly taught to the people which was necessary, all that they wrote: 2 De iustific. lib. 3. cap. 8. §. prima ratio. This I have proved more fully cap. That nothing can be certain to be believed with the certainty of faith, but what is immediately contained in the Word of God, or thence deducted by evident consequence. Now it is our General course to examine all doctrines by the Scriptures: holding the Scriptures the undoubted Oracles of God for the ground of all our belief, King james praemonition to all Christian Monarches pag. 35, 36. as the Fathers did: and holding the true sense of the Scriptures, as it is delivered for all fundamental points, in the three Creeds, and in the four first general Counsels, and the uniform consent of the ancient Fathers. In which is contained, the full instruction for salvation, and the unity of the Catholic Church. §. 2. Jrenaeus Bishop of Lions in France, living within 200 years of our Saviour (a disciple of those that heard Saint john the Apostle) writing against the Heretics Valentinians, Gnostics, and others: layeth down in his first book and 2 chapter, no other Articles of faith, and grounds of Religion than our ordinary Catechism teacheth: and in his third chapter showeth that in the unity of that faith all the Churches of Germany, France, Spain the East Egypt, Libya, and all the world, were founded: therein they sweetly accorded, as if they all dwelled in one house, had all but one soul, one heart, and one mouth, and this ground he lays for the confutation of all Heresies. 〈…〉 ●b. ●e prescript aduers●s hereti●o. fol●o q●arto. The like doth Tertullian, liu●ng 200 years after Christ. He gives the fundamental points of Religion, gathered out of the Scriptures, and delivered by the Churches, the same which our Church delivereth and no other, for the rule of faith. See King james P●aemonition, p●g 35. The three famous Creeds, named the Apostles, Athanasius, and the Nicene Creeds ordained for rules of Christians belief, and badges differencing them from Infidels and Heretics, we hold entirely and firmly, and proclaim them ordinarily in our Churches. And whatsoever the Fathers held uniformly, and agreed upon as necessary to be believed unto salvation, we do with reverence receive. But the particular or private opinions which any of them held different from other Fathers do not bind us now, more than those other Fathers then, or the Romans at this present. The four first general Counsels with reverence we receive as Orthodox, See B. Andrew Ad Bellarmine Apologiam Responsio. cap. 7. pag. 161. and so they are acknowledged by our Church, and by our Acts of Parliament The following Counsels are subject to some exceptions. We therefore holding the same points of faith which the Primitive Fathers held uniformly to be necessary to salvation, and holding no other points that do any way cross or weaken them; may justly challenge them for our predecessors: and their Church and ours in point of doctrine to be all one. Antiquus. §. 3. We challenge the same Fathers to be ours also: and we deduce both our Bishops and doctrine by good succession from them: which you cannot do. But I require not of you a discourse of those times, which either of us lay alike claim unto: but of the times nearer unto Luther. Show me any visible Church in the world that held Luther's doctrine for 500 years next before Luther's time. Antiquissimus. You may challenge the Primitive Fathers for the points wherein you and we agree, as the Canonical Scriptures, the doctrine of the Trinity in Unity, Baptism, and such like: But you cannot challenge them to be yours in those additions and corruptions which they never knew, and which you have brought into the Church in later times, and which make the great difference betwixt you and us: as the worshipping of Images, the Pope's pardons, private Masses, or Communion without communicating half Communions without the Cup, the Pope's transcendent supremacy, and such like. §. 4. But in calling us to these later times, you are good disciples of the Poet Horace, who in his Arte Poetica, saith, A witty Poet must use this Art, The point which he hath no hope to burnish fair, and bright, he must leave untouched, Et quae desperat tractata nitescere posse, relinquit. This is good Poetry indeed in them, but pitiful Divinity in you, to leave the best times and purest patterns and draw us to the worst. But, Sectionis. 2. Subsectio. 2. §. 1. Propounding (1) the Easternt and Greek Churches, (2) the Waldenses, etc. And (3) the Roman Church itself, misliking and groaning under the tyranny of the Papacy, and desiring reformation. §. 2. The Greek Church condemned by the Romish as Heretical. §. 3. Is cleared by Scotus, Lombard, Aquinas, and others. Now presupposing you yield us those best times, wherein our Church was very gloriously visible, we follow you to the worst. Wherein you propose unto you, first, the spacious and famous Churches of Grecia, D. Field of the Church. book 3. cap. 5. Armenia, Aethiopia, and Russia; which holding the same rule of faith which we hold, and believing all points absolutely necessary to salvation, as we believe, and refusing the same corruptions of the Church of Rome, which we refuse; were the same with our Church: true Churches of God; notwithstanding some defects, errors, and divisions among them, which stained their beauty, and hindered their perfection, but did not cut them off from possibility of salvation. And so (for aught I know they continue till this time. These Churches therefore in the East, South, and North, especially the Greek Church, so famous for many Ages before our Western reformation, as for all other things, so also for their separation from the Church of Rome, for the enormities thereof, we may rightly call our predecessors, which maintained our doctrine long before Luther's time. Again, in the West we propose unto you the Waldenses, separated from the Community of the Romish Hierarchy, and their followers, continuing unto Luther's time. And great numbers of others also that held Community with the Romish Hierarchy, but misliked their tyranny and corruptions, groaned under them, longed for reformation, and gladly embraced it when they found it. What say you to these? Antiquus. I except against them all. First, §. ●. against the Greek Church (which yet is fare better than the Armenian, Aethiopian, or Russian) I say it is no Church at all, both because it is cut off by Schism from the Catholic Roman Church, and because it is heretical in a fundamental point, denying the procession of the Holy Ghost, from the Son of God. Antiquissimus. See the answer to Mr. Fisher's Relation to his third Conference by R. B. pag. 5, 8. §. 3. You offend much against charity in condemning such famous Churches for separating from the particular Roman Church by Schism: and against verity by charging it with fundamental heresy. Of schism afterwards, now for the heresy. It seems by Scotus, a Scotus in 1. Sent dist. 11. quaest. 1. that the Greeks' held no other Heresy than Saint Basil and Gregory Nazianzen held 370 after Christ; whom yet no man durst ever call Heretics. Surely out of their words (as they express themselves) saying [That the Holy Ghost precedes from the Father by the son and is the spirit of the son] you cannot gather the denial of the proceeding of the Holy Ghost from the Son, or that they make the Son unequal to the Father, or make any difference in the consubstantiality of the persons. If the manner of their speech by some great judgements be condemned as incommodious, and containing an error, yet happily not an error simply fundamental, sufficient to cut them off from being a true Church. Magister Sententiarum saith, b Magister 1. Sent. dist. 11. d. The Greeks' from the Latins in this point, Verbo discordant, sensu non differunt. And Scotus saith, The difference is in voce & in modo explicandi potius quam in re. And Aquinas saith, c Aquin. 1. part. q. 36. art. 2. in cor●ore. that Quidam Graecorum dicuntur concedere, quod fit à Filio, vel profluat ab eo, non tamen quod procedat. And whereas Damascene saith, Spiritum per filium esse dicimus, ex filio non dicimus: d Bellar. de Christo. lib. 2. cap 27. §. Respond digitur. Bellarmine answers with Bessarion and Genuadius, that Damascen denies not spiritum sanctum procedere ex silio quod ad remattinet, but thinks it may be more safely said, per filium quam ex filio, for the manner of speech, to avoid the heresy of Macedonius and Eunomius, who said the spirit proceeded from the Son, as from the primary cause, yea indeed the only cause. But (saith Bellarmine) as to avoid the heresy of Macedonius, it was rightly said, Spiritum esse à Patre per filium, so for the error of the Grecians, it is now more rightly said, à patre et filio. Lastly, Thomas Aquinas e Aquin, ib. part. 1. q. 36. art. 3. ad. 1. saith, Spiritus sanctus immediatè à Patre procedit, in quantum est ab eo, & mediate in quantum est a Filio. Et sic dicitur procedere à patre per filium. Yet I hope you account not Saint Thomas an Heretic. To shut up all without exception: Azorius (a learned jesuite, a choice man to deliver the Roman doctrine, as it is held at this day:) in his book dedicated to Pope Clement 8. and Printed by the approbation of Claudius Aqua viva, General of the jesuites, and of the Master of the sacred Palace, etc. He reckons the Grecians Armenians, and other Christians of the East for schismatics only, because they obey not the Bishop of Rome's government: but he excuseth them of heresies imputed unto them. Azorius Institut. moral. part. 1. lib. 8. cap. 20. §. Decimo quaeritur. §. 3. A sufficient historical discourse of the Waldenses in 4 Subsections. The first of their doctrine; the second, of their great numbers, and visibility; the third, of their large spreading into all Countries; the fourth, of their continuance above 400 years, until Luther's time and after. Sectionis 3. Subsection 1. The Doctrine. §. 1. Of the Waldenses. §. 2. Their diverse names: but all one, and §. 3. All of the Protestants Religion, as say Aeneas Silvius, Du Bravius, Poplinerius, Cocleus, Eckius, Gretserus, etc. §. 4. Many bad opinions, badly & falsely imputed to them. §. 5. Nine Articles different from the Protestants ascribed unto them by Parsons the jesuite, but cleared by authentic Authors. Antiquissimus. What say you then, to them that refused the new doctrines and usurpations of the Pope in these Western parts? the Waldenses, Albigenses, Bohemians. Antiquus. You know our men count them all Heretics. Antiquissimus. So they account us, and all that speak against their abuses: but unjustly. So was Saint Paul accounted by some: but he answered as they and we may, Acts 24 14. After the way which they call heresy, so worship we the God of our Fathers: believing all things which are written in the Law and the Prophets. 15 And have hope towards God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. 16 And herein we exercise ourselves to have always a conscience void of offence towards God, and towards men. But now the question is not whether they and we be heretics, or no: but whether they were not of our faith, and in number sufficient to make a visible Church. Antiquus. I deny both; for neither were they of your Faith or Religion, but differed much from you: neither were they so great and visible a company as the Church ought to be. §. 2 Antiquissimus. That they were of our Faith, and our predecessors, I prove first by your own Writers confessions. Who first did yield us that these names Waldenses, Albigenses, Leonists, or Pauperes de Lugduno, Picards, Bohemians, Thaborists, and such like, were all one kind of people, for their faith and Religion, and the diversity of their names were given them by their enemies, partly of the places of their inhabiting (as Leonists, and poor men of Lions, a City in France; Picards, of the Country Picardy; Albigenses, of the City and Country of Albi; Bohemians, of Bohemia; Thaborists, of the City of Thabor, etc.) and partly of their principal teachers (as of Peter Waldus. Waldenses: of Peter Bruis, Petrebrusians: of Henry, joseph, Espernon, Arnold, Wiclife, Hus, Henricians, josephists, Esperonists, Arnoldists, Wiclifists, Hussits, etc.) to omit other nicknames given them upon other causes. §. 3 And now secondly, that they were our forerunners in the points of Religion wherein we differ from you, your Writers show plentifully. a Hist. Waldens. Book. 1. cap. 8. Aeneas Silvius, and john du Bravius, in their histories of Bohemia, make the doctrine taught by Calvin, all one with that of the Waldenses. And the same Silvius saith, b Aeneas Sylu. hist. Bohem. cap. 35. The Hussites did embrace the opinions of the Waldenses. And Hosius (heres. lib. 1.) saith, the leprosy of the Waldenses infected all Bohemia. Lindanus (in his Analytic Tables) makes Caluin inheritor of the Doctrine of the Waldenses. Thomas Walden c Walden lib. 6. de reb. Sacram. tit. 12. cap. 10. saith, The doctrine of the Waldenses crept out of the quarters of France into England, meaning by Wiclife, against whom he wrote. d D. Usher. Gravis. quaest. cap. 8. §. 1. Poplinerius saith, The Waldenses and Albigenses about the year 1100, and the succeeding times spread their doctrine (parum differentem) little differing from that which the Protestants now embrace. Lancelotus du voisin Poplinerius histor. Franc. lib. 1. fol. 7. b. edit. anno 1581. e Ib. cap. 9 §. 22. Gretserus the jesuite, calls the Albigenses, Waldenses, and Berengarians, (Caluinianorum atavos) the Caluinists' great grandfathers. Gretser. proleg●m. in scripta edita contra Wald. cap. 5. f D. Abbot against Hill. Reason 1. §. 18. Francis Guicciardin an Italian, and Florentine Historian writing of the year 1520. (lib. 13.) saith, that Luther set abroad the doctrine of the Bohemians (naming Hus and Hierom.) And Petrus Messiah, a Spaniard (in the life of Wenceslaus) mentioning the opinions of Hus and the Bohemians, saith, They were the seed of those errors (as he calls them) which were afterwards in Germany, (to wit, taught by Luther.) g Ib. §. 29. And johannes Cocleus (a man that had laboured in the story of the Hussites, and set out books thereof, and also wrote sharply against Luther,) saith, that Hus did commit spiritual fornication with many aliens, with the Wiclivists, the Dulcinists, the Leonists, the Waldenses, the Albigenses, and others of that sort, enemies of the Church of Rome. And he saith, that Luther followed Hus his Doctrine, lib. 2. de. Acts & scriptis Lutheri. And calls the Lutherans new Hussites. And again, lib. 3. and lib. 8. he saith, that unto his time (till Luther's time and after) there remained the sect of the Thaborites in many places of Bohemia and Moravia, under the name of Picards and Waldenses. h Histor. Albigens. lib. 1. cap. 8. Eckius (in his common places, cap. 28.) saith, Luther had done nothing else but renew the heresies of the Waldenses, Albigenses, Wiclife, and john Hus. §. 4 Antiquus. Sir, our men deny not, but these Waldenses and others, were Luther's forerunners in many things: but they held some things which you are ashamed to hold, and therefore were not of your Church or Religion. Antiquissimus. I know well, that many errors were imputed to them which they never held. As i B. Usher. Graviss. quaest cap. 10. §. 15. Bernardus Girardus, the French Historian (lib. 10.) saith: Although they had some ill opinions, yet these did not so much stir up the hatred of the Pope and great Princes against them, as their freedom in speech which they used in blaming and reproving the vices, dissolute manners, life, and actions of Princes, Ecclesiastical persons, and the Pope himself. That was the chief thing which drew the hatred of all upon them. (& effecit ut plures nefarie affingerentur eis opiniones, à quibus omnino fuerant alieni) this caused many wicked opinions to be devised and fathered of them, from which they were very free and guiltless. k Ib. cap. 8. §. 28. Thuanus (histor. lib. 5. anno 1550.) reckons up their opinions thus: They held that the Church of Rome, because it had forsaken the true faith of Christ, was that Whore of Babylon and that barren tree which Christ cursed, and therefore we ought not to obey the Pope and Bishops which fostered his errors: that the Monastical life was the sink and kennel of the Church, the vows thereof vain, and serving only for lusts: that the Priests orders were notes of that beast mentioned in the Revelation: that purgatory fire, sacrifice of the Mass, Sanctuaries, or hallowed places about Churches, worshipping of Saints, offerings for the dead, were the Inventions of Satan. Then he addeth, To these certain and chief heads of their doctrine (alia afficta) others are feigned and devised, concerning Marriage, resurrection, the state of souls after death, and of Meats. l B. jewel Apol. cap. 1. diuis. 1. Bishop Jewel saith, our ancient Christians were slandered, that they made privy meetings in the dark, killed young babes, fed themselves with men's flesh, and like Savage and brute beasts did drink their blood: In conclusion, how that after they had put out the Candles, they committed adultery or incest one with another, brethren with sisters, sons with thei● mothers, without shame or difference: men without all Religion, enemies of mankind, unworthy to be suffered in the world. Thus they said of the ancient Christians, and thus they said of the Waldenses, most unjustly and untruely of both: you doubt not of the former, let many of your own Writers satisfy you of the later. m Usher grav. qu. cap. 6. §. 11. Rainerius (whose book Gretserus the jesuite lately set out among other Writers of the Waldenses) saith, The Waldenses, were the most dangerous sect to the Church of all other, for three causes: the third whereof is, that whereas other sects, through the outrageousness of blasphemy against God, work a horror in men, this sect of the Leonists hath a great show of piety; because before men they live justly, and of God they believe all things piously, and hold all the articles contained in the Creed: only they blaspheme and hate the Roman Curch for which the multitude is easy to believe. n Hist. ●ald, book 1. cap. 5. jacobus de Riberia (in his collections of the City of toulouse) saith, the Waldenses won all credit from the Priests, and made them little esteemed, by the holiness of their lives, and excellency of their doctrine. The like saith Rainerius, cited ib. De forma haeret. fol. 98. And Clau●ius de Scissel, Archbishop of Turin, saith, they lived unreproveably without reproach or scandal among men, cited ib. In his Treatise against the Waldenses. The B. of Canaillon, sent a certain Monk, a Divine, Vesembec. Oration of the Waldenses citat. ib. to confer and convince the Waldenses of Merindal in Province, who upon his return, said, He had not so much profited in all his life in the Scriptures, as he had done in those few day's conference with the Waldenses. Whereupon the Bishop sent diverse Doctors to confound them, but upon their return, one of them said with a loud voice, that he had learned more touching the Doctrine necessary to salvation, by the Waldenses, instructing their children in their Catechise, then in all the disputations of Divinity which he had ever heard in Paris. §. 5 Antiquus. I will not stand upon those foul errors which some author's attribute to the Waldenses; but there are nine points which the late learned jesuite, a Parsons three Conversions part. 2. cap. 10. §. 26. Robert Parsons saith, All Authors that writ of the Waldenses, do attribute unto them, which I hope you will be ashamed to maintain: Those show that you and they are not of one Church. Antiquissimus. Those show the vanity and shamelessness of that man, that to the face of the world avoucheth all Authors, when many Authors say the plain contrary. This first article or error (which he saith they hold) is, that all carnal concupiscence and conjunction is lawful, when lust doth burn us. (And therefore some add, that in the dark they practise all kind of carnal mixtures, with whomsoever they first meet, etc.) A filthy slander, laid as well upon the b Origenes lib. 6. contra Celsum. Euseb. hist. lib. 4. cap. 7. See Cecilius his wicked Oration in Minuty Felicis Octavio. recited also by D. Usher Grau. quaest. cap. 6. §. 12 See him also ib. §. 20. Primitive Christians, as upon them. And them your own Rainerius (cited before) cleareth, saying, Haec Leonistarum (secta) magnam habet speciem pietatis: eo quod coram hominibus iuste vivant, & bene omnia de Deo credant, etc. Again, Casti sunt Leonistae, pag. 231. lin. 48. And again, Quaelibet naturâ turpia devitant. Item, suos subditos ad eadem diligenter informant. Ib. pag. 232, 42. Rerum Bohemic. script. a M. Frehero edit. Hanou. an. 1602. They c In their book of remedies against sin, cap. 21. cited in the History of the Waldenses, book 1. cap. 4. inform their people against this sin, thus: The sin of luxury is very pleasing to the Devil, displeasing to God, and injurious to our neighbours: because therein a man obeyeth the basest part of his body, rather than God who preserveth it. A foolish woman doth not only take from a man his good, but himself too. He that is given to this vice, keeps faith to no man, and therefore David caused his faithful servant to be slain, that he might enjoy his wife. Amon defiled his sister Thamar. This vice consumes the heritage of many, as it is said of the prodigal child, that he wasted his goods living luxuriously. Balaam made choice of this sin, to provoke the children of Israel to sin, by occasion whereof there died 24000 persons. This sin was the cause of the blindness of Samson: it perverted Solomon, and many have perished by the beauty of a woman. Prayer and Fasting, and distance of place, are the remedies against this sin. For a man may overcome either vices by combating with them, but in this he is never victorious, but by flying from it, and not approaching near unto it, whereof we have an example in Joseph. It is therefore our duties to pray daily to the Lord, that he will keep us from the sin of luxury, and give us understanding and chastity. Thus they taught and professed: and is it credible, had they practised the contrary, they could have continued so long, and drawn so much of the world to embrace their Religion, with so great dangers and persecutions as they did? No, (saith your d Rainer. cited before, §. 4. l●t●n. Rainerius) the honesty and righteousness of their lives was the greatest attractive that drew the world after them, to the greatest danger of the Church of Rome. The s●co●d article of Parsons, is, They held all oaths unlawful to Christians, for any cause whatsoever in the world, ●●cause it is written, N●lit●●urare, do not swear, M●tth. 5. james 5. Answer. Indeed they eschewed the common practice of swearing, according to Christ's precepts, Matth. 5 37. but (saith your Rainerius) to avoid corporal death, and the revealing of their brethren, they would swear But how agrees that with that which e Gabriel Prateclus. Pauperum de Lugduno error 3●. Pratoclus saith of them: That they held that no deadly sin was to be tolerated, though it were to avoid a greater evil? The truth is, in judgement they sticked not to swear truly, but in trivial matters they would not swear rashly, which gave occasion of that cavil: As your Rainerius saith, D●cent vitare mendacium, detractionem, iuramentum, ibid. 222. 15, 16. f In their book entitled, The spiritual Almanac, in the third comment, cited by Hist. Wald. Book. 1. cap. 4. Their own doctrine is, that there are lawful oaths tending to the honour of God, and the edification of our neighbours, as in Hebr. 6.16. and as Israel was enjoined to swear by the Name of the eternal God, Deut. 6.13. and by the example of those oaths that past betwixt Abimeleck and Isaac, Gen. 26.30. and the oath of jacob, Gen. 31.53. The third article is: that no judgement of life and death is permitted to Christians in this life: for that it is written, Nolite judicare, Matth. 7. luke 6. Answ. But Rainerius tells a contrary tale, of a Waldensian Glover, who being condemned and led to death, said openly in the hearing of all, You now condemn us rightly for if we had power over you as you have over us, we would exercise it against your Clerks and Religions. ib. 222. 47. This cavil arose upon their complaining of the Magistrates, (to whom they were delivered up by the Inquisitors, Priests, and Friars, who were their enemies, not indifferent men, but passionate) and so they were condemned and executed by them, without hearing, examining, or knowing of their cause. This cruel simplicity of the Magistrates they spoke against in their complaint to Ladislaus, King of Hungary and Bohemia, and elsewhere. g In their book entitled, The light of the treasure of Faith. fol. 214. cited ibid. But their doctrine was, That they were not to suffer the Malefactor to live: and that without correction and discipline, doctrine serves to no purpose, neither should judgements be acknowledged, nor sins punished. And therefore just anger is the Mother of discipline: and patience without reason, the seed of vices, and permitteth the wicked to digress from truth and honesty. The fourth article is; That the Creed of the Apostles is to be contemned, and no account at all to be made of it. Answ. Who would think that wise men would thus play the fools? In deed, they account not the Salutation of the Angel to the B. Virgin, nor the Apostles Creed to be prayers saith Rainerius (ibid. 232. 10.) h Rainerius supra §. 4. lit. m. But yet they reverently receive the whole New Testament, and the Apostles Creed which is gathered out of it: Et credunt omnes articulos qui in Symbolo continentur, saith the same Author. And in their books they have very good and Catholic Expositions of the Creed. The fift Article is, That no other prayer is to be used, but only the Pator noster, set down in Scripture. Answ. And yet their own Writers (Rainerius, Eymericus, etc.) record diverse other of their prayers, as for Grace before meat, this: He that blessed the five barley loaves and two fishes, in the Desert to his Disciples, bless this Table unto us. And after meat, that of the Revelation, 5.12, 13. Blessing, and honour, and wisdom, and thankes, and virtue, and power, be unto our God for ever and ever, Amen. Also, God give a good reward and recompense to all that do well unto us. And, God which hath given us corporal food, give us also spiritual life. And, The Lord be with us, and we with him for ever. And the rest answered, Amen. There is a large and punctual confession of sin, set down in the third part of the History of the Waldenses and Albigenses, book 1. cap. 2. taken out of their book, Entitled, New Comfort. All which and many other show the vanity of this cavil. The sixth Article, That the power of consecrating the body of Christ, and of hearing Confessions, was left by Christ, not only to Priests, but also to Laymen, if they be just. Answ. The first part of this Article they held not, but rather the contrary, that neither Priests nor Laiks could consecrate the body of Christ. For i Rainer in summa de Catharis & Leonisti●. Rainerius saith, They do not believe the Sacrament to be the true Body and Blood of Christ, but the Bread consecrated is called in a certain figure, the Body of Christ, as it is said, The Rock was Christ, and the like. The second part they said truly, james 5. 1●. and we hold, That the power to hear Confessions, is left by Christ, not only to Priests, but to discreet and godly Laypeople, who are able to counsel and comfort them. The seventh Article is, That no Priests must have any Live at all: but must live on Alms, and that no Bishops or other dignity is to be admitted in the Clergy, but that all must be equal. Answ. That their Ministers may not lawfully take and enjoy Live, or that it was sin so to do, they taught not, So they profess in their answer. Ad literas August●ai Olomucensis ann. 1508. & plenius in scripto ed●to 1572. but were sorry they had not sufficient stayed Live for them, whereby they might have more time to their studies, and greater opportunity to instruct them with necessary doctrine and knowledge: but they were not ashamed of their Ministers that were content to work with their hands to get their living, since the doctrine and example of the Apostles lead them to it; and they had rather see them so to do, then to live idly, follow Taverns, venery, vanity, usury, sacrilege, & other wickedness. That all Ministers must be equal, they meant in orders, but not in jurisdiction, for they allowed Deacons, Presbyters, and Bishops, as both Guido and Sanders observe. The eighth Article is, That Mass is to be said once only every year: to wit, upon Maundy Thursday, when the Sacrament was instituted, and the Apostles made Priests. For that Christ said, Do this in remembrance of me, to wit, (say they) that which he did at that time, Luke 22.1 Cor. 11. Answ. Parson's pretending to bring no articles but such as all Authors charge the Waldenses withal, brings this, which no Author imputes to them, but only one Guido Carmelita; and l Alphons. de Castro lib. 6. adv. haereses tit. de Euchar. Alphonsus de Castro, wonders where Guido found it. m Aeneas Sylu. hist. Bohem. cap. 35. Aeneas Syvius mentions it not, but contrarily saith, they hold that the Priest may consecrate in any place, and at any time, and minister to them that require it. n Rainer. ib. 224. 12. And Rainerius, They mislike that the faithful should communicate but once in the year: and they communicate daily. And concerning the Mass, he saith. o Ib. 224. 14. They hold that the Mass is nothing, that the Apostles had it not, and that it was made for gain. And p Ib. 224. 17. that the oblation made by the Priest in the Mass, profiteth nothing. The ninth and last Article objected by Parsons: That the words of Consecration must be no other, but only the Pater noster, seven times said over the bread, etc. Answ. q Alph. Castro ibid. Alphonsus de Castro saith, It is possible that the Waldenses might have had this, but not probable; for only Guido Carmelita saith it; but Aeneas Silvius, a fare more diligent man, and of better judgement, mentions it not; neither Antoninus, nor Bernardus de Lutzenburge, (though they all professedly reckon up their errors) but rather they say the contrary. That the Waldenses held, The Priest might consecrate in every place, and time, and minister to them that desire it; and that it was sufficient to speak the Sacramental words only. r Rainer. pa. 224. 14. Edit. Froheri. And Rainerius saith, They receive not the Canon of the Mass, but only the words of Christ vulgarly. By these nine selected Articles, whereby Parsons would make the world believe the Waldenses differed much from us the world may see they differed nothing at all: had there been greater differences, doubtless he would have showed them, for he purposely sought the greatest. Finding therefore no difference, we may safely conclude, they were fully of our faith and Religion, our predecessors and forerunners, and that the Protestants doctrine was held and taught in the world openly and professedly above 400 years before Luther taught it in Germany. Sectionis. 3. Subsectio. 2. §. 1. Of the great numbers of the Waldenses. §. 2. Their disputations. §. 3. Wars against them. §. 4. By the famous Simon Montfort. §. 5. Carcasson taken. §. 6. and 7. New Armies by Croysadoes against them out of all Christendom. Tolous taken, the King of Arragon slain. §. 8. Tolous recovered. Simon slain. The King of France continueth the wars. The Albigenses thrive, recover Carcasson, spread in many Countries. §. 9 The Earl of Tolous deceived by the Pope or his Legate, fortifies Avignon. The King of France besiegeth it, dyeth mad; the Legate unable by force, gets it by fraud and perjury. §. 10. Tolous overthrows the French Armies. The Pope offers him peace. The great wars cease. Counsels are held to root out the Albigenses. § 11. Ignorance of Histories makes men love the Pope. §. 1. Antiquus. Well Sir, if it should be granted, that these Waldenses held your doctrine entirely, without difference, and so were of your Church: yet were you never the nearer, because their numbers were so few and scattered, that they did not make a Church so visible, as the true Church of God must always be. Antiquissimus. I will prove they did, and that plentifully and manifestly, without all exception, out of your own Authors. a This Rainerius is set out by Freberus, among other writers of Bohemian matters Hannou. anno 1602. see there pag 222. 223. and by Grets'. jesuita. Ingolstad anno. 1603. see there Rainer. contra haeret c. 4. pag. 54. And his testimony is often cited by Protestants, as Morney Mysterium iniquitatis pag 731. aedit. Salmuri●n 8. 1612. Usher grav. quaest. c. 6. §. 11. Archb. Abbot. contra Hill Reason 1. §. 29 etc. Rainerius saith, That of all Sects which either are or have been, none hath been more pernicious to the Church (he meaneth of Rome) then that of the Leonists. For three causes (mark them well) first, for the long continuance: for some say it hath continued from the time of Sylvester (he sat anno Christi 314.) others say, from the time of the Apostles. Secondly, for the generality, for there is almost no country into which this Sect hath not entered. Thirdly, that whereas all other have wrought a horror through their outrageous blasphemies against God, this of the Leonists hath a great show of piety, because that before men they live justly, and of God they believe all things well, and all the Articles which are contained in the Creed; only they blaspheme and hate the Roman Church: wherein the multitude is prone to hearken unto them. Note you the antiquity, and the generality in all Nations, arguing a visibility suitable to the Church? Now hear your Poplinerius, b Genebrard Chronol. lib. 4. an. 1581. pag. 782. edit. Paris. 1600. (whom Genebrard calls an upright and right learned man, and one who hath written all things purely and simply, according to the truth of the History, not for favour of the cause.) He c Palinerius hist. Franc. lib. 1. edit. an. 1581. fol. 7. b. saith, The Roman Church was never more sharply oppugned, then by the Waldenses and their successors in Aquitania, and the Regions adjoining, etc. For these (saith he) against the wills of all Christian Princes about the year 1100, and in the succeeding times, spread abroad their doctrine, little differing from that which at this day the Protestants embrace, not only through all France, but almost through all the Countries of Europe also. For the French, Spanish, English, Scots, Italians, Germans, Bohemians, Saxons, Polonians, Lithuanians, and other Nations, have obstinately defended it to this day. Gretserus the jesuite saith, d Gretserus' prolegom. in script. edit. contra Wald. cap. 2. The Waldenses multiplied so, that [vix aliqua regio ab hac peste immunis & intacta mansit: adeo se diffuderat, ut cum plurimorum exitio in varias provincias infuderat, etc.] Scarce any Region remained free and untouched of it, so greatly it spread itself into all Provinces. The Albigenses error so increased (saith Cesarius e Caesarius Heisterbach. hist. lib. 6. cap. 21. ) that in a short time it infected [Vsque ad mille civitates] a thousand Cities: and if it had not been repressed by the sword, I think (saith he) it would have corrupted all Europe. This also your jesuite f Parsons three conversions. part. 2. cap. 10. §. 28. Robert Parsons acknowledgeth, and saith, they had an army of 70000. men to fight for them. Observe here their multitude, and observe how it was repressed, not by soul-convicting disputation, but by body-killing-persecution. We read indeed of some disputations and conferences with them, wherein the Pope's learned Doctors and Bishops sought to convince and win them: but all without fruit. a Altissiodorensis Chronloog. an 1207. Usher cap. 10, §. 20, 20. divers Abbots of the Cistercian order (by appointment of the Pope) and one Bishop (Episcopus Oximensis,) with their assistants, to the number of 30, went by two or three together thorough their Cities, Villages, and Towns, preaching for three months space: but (saith the Author, Pauc●s revecant) they converted but few. b Ibid. At other times the like preachers assayed to persuade them, but profited little or nothing. c Bertrand. de gest. Tholossanor. fol. 46 col. 4. One among all other disputations, is most famous, * Montreal. apud montem Regalem, in the Diocese of Carcasson, betwixt Fulco B. of Tolous; Didacus, B. of Exon. Saint Dominicke, Peter de Castro novo, and Ranulphus, on the one side: and Pontanus jordanus, Arnoldus Aurisanus, Arnoldus Ottonus, Philebertus Castrensis, and Benedictus Thermus, Pastors of the Albigenses, on the other side: d jacobus de Riberia in collectaneu de urbe T●lcsa. before four Moderators or Arbiters (two of them Noble men, Bernardus de villa nova, and Bernardus Arrensis: and two Plebeians, Raimundus Godius, and Arnoldus Riberia.) The heresies (or questions) were these: That the Church of Rome is not the holy Church nor Spouse of Christ, but a Church defiled with the doctrine of the Devil, and is that Babylon which Saint John describes in the Revelation, the Mother of fornications and abominations, made drunk with the blood of the Saints, and that those things are not approved of God, which are approved of the Church of Rome. And, that the Mass was not ordained by Christ nor his Apostles, but is an invention of men. This disputation held them many days, without fruit: saving, that diverse histories give the victory to the Albigenses e Histor. Albig. book 1. cap. 2. See Usher. ib. §. 22. And it is certain, that f Chronolog Altisiod. an. 1208. fol. 103. b Albigenses saepiùs attentati, nullatenus gladio verbi Dei poterant expugnari. Odo B. of Paris, finally informed the Pope, that, The Albigenses being often set upon, could by no means be conquered by the sword of God's Word; and therefore it was fit to beat them down by wars. g Hilagarus hist.. of Foix pag. 126. And some say, It was the Pope's policy to entertain them with conference and disputations, that in the mean season he might prepare great Armies to root out them and their Religion. These oft and great travails in preaching, conferring, disputing, needed not to men invisible, obscure, of small numbers, or contemptible; §. 3. much less needed those great Armies which were gathered to put them down, if they were few and obscure. a Usher ib. cap. 8. § 31, 32, 37. Pope Alexander 3. had cursed them, anno 1163. persecuted them with war, 1170. and with Inquisition 1176. And after this, spoiled a great number of them (anno 1181) exercitu militum peditumque infinite, with an Army in number of horse and foot infinite (saith Nangiacus b Gulielmus Nangiacus chron. M S. ) and yet (saith the Monk c Altissiodorens. chrono. an. 1181. Altissiodorensis) they recovered, returned to their former opinions and multiplied, d Antonin. hist. part. 3. tit. 23. cap. 1. prope mitium. which, Innocent 3, seeing, and foreseeing the great danger of the Pope's downfall by their spreading doctrine: thought best to arm both heaven and earth against them. Authorising the e Friar's original, about 12 hundred yeer● after Christ. new-sprung Friars Dominicans and Franciscans, to preach in all places, (whether the Bishops and ordinary Pastora would or no) and to uphold the Pope's falling kingdom: and withal to execute a most cruel Inquisition against heretics (for by that odious name were all good Christians branded, that would not be subject to the pope's tyranny and Romish corruptions.) But all this being insufficient, f Rigordus histor. anni. 1208. pag. 207. he published his Croysadoes, promising pardon of all sins, and the joys of heaven to all that would take the sign of the cross upon their Coats or Armour, and become soldiers against the Waldenses, and continue in the war for forty days together, after they came, or that happened to dye in their way coming thither. A very politic and a thrifty course: he promised paradise and eternal life, very liberally to his crossed soldiers, but bestowed not one cross of silver to maintain them. But withal, they that were once crossed thus for the holy wars, in what land soever, were no longer the King's subjects, but the pope's: neither might they be arrested, sued, or troubled for any debts or actions; but must be suffered freely to go about to prepare themselves; and all men must think it a holy and meritorious deed to furnish and aid them with whatsoever they needed, and account them the undoubted citizens of heaven, whether they lived or died. Thus the politic pope turned the Croysadoes, and Armies, ordained to go against Christ's enemies the Saracens or Turks, now to go against the pope's own enemies, Christians, the best servants of Christ. g Gretserus' Prolegom. in scripta edita contra walden's. cap. 6. Usher. ib. cap. 9 §. 4, 5. The Catholics (saith your jesuite Gretser) which took the badge of the cross upon them, to war and root out the heretics, (Albigenses or Waldenses) were promised to enjoy the same Indulgence and be guarded with the same holy privilege, which was granted to them that warred against the Turk, for defence of the holy Land. And further, the better to gather numbers of soldiers in every place, h Vmbert. Burgund. Serm. part. 2. serm. 64. the pope used the help of Preachers to stir up the people. And the Preachers taking this, or some such like text [Psal. 94.16. Who will rise up for me against the evil doere? or who will stand up for me against the workers of Iniquity] would commonly conclude their Sermons with this exhortation [Behold, dear Brethren, you see the malice of the Heretics, you see how much hurt they do in the world: and you see again how carefully, and by all holy means the Church doth labour to recall and recover them: but with such men she cannot prevail; no they defend themselves with the secular power. And therefore our holy mother the Church, sore against her will, and with great sorrow, is compelled to call together a Christian army against them. Whosoever therefore hath any zeal of Religion, whosoever is touched with the honour of God, whosoever desireth to be a partaker of that great Jndulgence, let him take upon him the sign of the cross, and join himself to the army of our Lord crucified.] By these means the pope drew out of all parts an innumerable company of Soldiers, in the year 1209. conducted by many Bishops, Earls and Barons, etc. The King of France himself (saith Guilielmus Armoricanus) sent fifteen thousand at his own charge, giving example to others. This great Army in short time, took one great strong populous City, * Vrbem Biturensem. and put to the sword threescore thousand, among whom were many of their own Catholics. i Caesarius Heisterbachensis histor. lib. 5. cap. 21. Let our English Catholics consider what they are to look for in like cases of our enemies prevailing. For Arnoldus the Cistercian Abbot (being the Pope's Legate in this great War) commanded the Captains and soldiers, saying, Cedite eos; novit enim Dominus qui sunt ejus: Kill them all (Catholics or Heretics) for the Lord knoweth who are his. Then the Army marched on to Carcasson, a City both of itself, strong and well manned: not likely, without strong siege effusion of much blood, and great loss of time to be taken with this great Army, and therefore the Leaders were glad to gain it by composition, suffering a wo●ld of people, of the Albigenses religion, thence to departed, so they would leave the City unweakened, and undefaced: which City thus gotten, §. 4. they made the head City of the war, which they foresaw would be very long, the number, strength, and resolution of the Albigenses, being very great. k Usher cap. 10. §. 26. This City tnerefore they fortified and furnished with all manner of store for all future events, and made Simon of Montfort (a Noble man highly descended, and allied to the Kings of England, and of France) governor of the City, and general of the whole Army, and Lord of all the Land already conquered or to be conquered by these wars. The cunning Legate, to get the great Earl of Beziers into his hands persuaded him with fair promises and safe conduct to come to a parley, l Usher. ib. Hist. Albig. book 1. cap. 6, 7. and when he had him in his power, contrary to promise taken him prisoner, saying, that faith is not to be kept with Heretics. He died shortly after in prison, suspected by poison: and Simon Montfort succeeded him in his Lands, and in a month's space took an hundred Castles with much slaughter of the Albigenses and their favourers. But this course of victories had interchanges of losses. For the Gentlemen of the Vicounty of Beziers, by secret instructions of the King of Arragon, took such advantages, that Simon was fain to send to all the Prelates of Europe for new supplies, affirming he had lost above forty Towns and Castles since the last departure of the Pilgrims. Then Simon taking the Castle of Beron, near unto Montreal, caused the eyes of above an hundred Albigenses to be put out, and their noses cut off, leaving only one with one eye to conduct the rest to Cabaret. §. 7. See ib. and the Authors there alleged. The new pilgrims (or crossed soldiers) arriving, the next year 1210, Simon taketh Minerbe, a strong Castle situate upon the Frontiers of Spain, where 140. (some say 180) men and women chose rather to be burned on earth then in hell for changing their Religion. Among many other, he took also the Castle of Thermes, and Remond lord of the place and Country, spoiling all with fire, even the lord also, his wife, sister, daughter, and other Nobles, for their constancy in their old faith. m Usher ibid. §. 9 & seq. Caesarius hist. lib. 5. cap. 21. The next year also 1211. §. 6. another great Army arrived, which took many Cities and Castles, hanging and burning many of the Albigenses: and besieged Lavallis, a town strongly fortified and defended: during which siege, others of the Religion took Montem gaudij, and slew great numbers of the Pontificians: But after along siege Lavallis was taken, the soldiers slain, four hundred Albigenses burnt, the rest hanged, and the like executions were done in many other Cities and Castles. But the City Tolous, though besieged, could not then be taken. Remond Earl of Tolous, was a great man, near in blood to the King of France, in the 2. degree: he had married Joan once Queen of Sicilia, sister to john King of England, by whom he had a son, called also Remond, (who was the last Earl of Tolous) and after the decease of Joan, he married Elinor, sister of Peter, K. of Araegon. He was strong therefore in blood, affinity, and confederacy, and n Armoricanus philippid●● lib. 8. one saith, he had as many Cities, Castles, and Towns, as the year hath days. He had many great provinces under him: Bertrandus o Bertrand de jests Tulosar fol. 32. col. 4. reckons them thus, Tenebat Cemes Tolosanus comitatum Tolosae, comitatum de Sancto Egidio, Provinciam, Delphinatum, comitatum venaissimi, Ruthenensem patriam, Cadurcensem, Albigensem, & Tolosae circumvicinas judiciarias, linguam Occitanam, & lata dominia intra & ultra Rhodanum & Aquitaniam. But because he was a great defender of the Albigenses, and was one of their Religion himself; The pope proscribed him, and exposed him to extirpation and ruin, and to be a prey to Simon Montfort with his pilgrims. p So sai●h ●●m. Marian ●●●ch. h●span. lib. 1. cap. 2. The Earl therefore gathering an Army of an hundred thousand, was very likely to have utterly overthrown Simon, had not the unexpected death of the King of Arragon (intercepted by ambush) quite discouraged and dissolved the Albigenses Army, so that they could not be stayed by their Captains from running away, q Usher ibid. §. 34. & seq. Some write that the Albigenses lost 15000 fight men, some say 17000, others say, 32000 r Hist. Albig. lib. 1. cap. 11. By this means, Simon now able to take the City of Tolous sendeth for the King of France his son, to come and have the honour of taking the City: who came accordingly, took it, and dismantled it, beating down the towers thereof. §. 7. Yet this great mifortune cast not down the Albigenses, but their courage and power was still so great, that new Croisadoes and Jndulgences were sent abroad to gather new crossed soldiers against them, anno 1213 by whose aid Simon won many other Castles and towns. And now in a Council of many Bishops, was Simon declared Lord of all the Countries and Dominion● gotten by this holy war; and possession shortly after given unto him by Lewis, eldest son of the King of France, and confirmed also by the pope in the Council of Lateran, anno 1215. §. 8. Yet for all this, while Simon made a journey to Paris to the King, and stayed there about honourable Ceremonies, and making marriages for his children: Remond was returned to Tolous, and joining with many Arragonians (that were come to revenge the death of their King) took the City and many other Castles, anno 1217. Upon the news whereof, Simon returned, and for recovering of the City, besieged it, but was most strangely and suddenly slain with a stone which a woman threw out of an Engin. Whereupon the siege broke up, that town remained, and many other towns and Castles returned under the obedience of old Remond, Earl of Tolous. Again, anno 1219. The King of France sent his son (now the second time, taking upon him the sign of the cross) with a great Army against the Albigenses; who slew of them 5000, and besieged Tolous again, but in vain. The Albigenses also retover many Castles. Again, anno 1221 King Philip of France sent 10000 footmen, and 200 horsemen against them, still without fruit of their labours. In the year 1223. by the pope's appointment, Usher d cap. 10. §. 46. was a Council held at Paris by the pope's Legate, two Archbishops and 20 other Bishops, against the Albigenses: and King Philip of France at his death appointed 20000 pounds (or as some writ 100000 pound) to be bestowed in winning the Albigenses lands (saith s Rigord. pag. 225. Rigordus.) For now the Albigenses had recovered the strong City, head of the war, Carcasson, and many other Castles which their enemies had won and held 14 years: t Math. Paris hist. an. 1223. pag. 306. And were now grown so powerful in Bulgaria, Croatia, and Dalmatia, that among many others they drew some Bishops to their party. But on the other side, Remond the Earl of Tolous, § 9 submitted himself ●nto the pope, & upon his oath that he would endeavour to root out the Albigenses, the pope restored him. Yet when he came before the Legate, in a great Council of French Bishops, and there claimed restitution of his lands, according to the pope's grant: Simons son came also and claimed the same lands, as won by his father, and assured by the pope, and also by the King of France: hereupon the Legate demurred, Usher ib §. 51. & seq. Math. Paris hist. pag. 319. & seq. and underhand procured the King of France, Lewis to to gather a great Army of crossed soldiers, to win from the Albigenses the City of Avignion, (a place of theirs of great strength, and thought to be invincible) The King (making peace with the King of England by mediation of the pope) raiseth a great army (anno 1225) of 50000 horse, and innumerable foot, and marcheth towards Avignio●, (then being in the power of the Earl of Tolous,) and being denied entrance, besiegeth it: The warlike Earl defended it bravely: He had very providently before the kings coming withdrawn all kind of provision out of the Country round about, into the City to furnish them within, and disfurnish them without: and now by often sallies he mightily afflicted them, killing at one time 2000, at another 3000, being helped by the breaking of a bridge: and the pestilence daily wasted great numbers. So that the King (though he had sworn never to departed, till he had taken the City) went aside to an Abbey not fare distant to avoid the pestilence, where he died shortly after (as some writ) out of his wits. The Legate, the more easily to win the City, kept secret the King's death: and despairing to prevail by force, attempted to do it by fraud. He cunningly persuaded the City to send unto him 12 of their Citizens to confer about some good conditions, giving them his oath for their safe return: but when the gates were opened to receive them so returning, his Army rushed in and took the gate, and finally the City, contrary to his oath given. For the Pope (or himself by the pope's authority) could easily enough dispense with such oaths. Thus the city of Avignion, which could not be taken in three months' siege and assault by the power of the King of France, Math. Paris. hist. an 1228. 〈◊〉 237. was easily taken by the fraud and perjury of his Holiness holy Legat. §. 10. In the year 1228, thrice in that Summer did the Earl of Tolous overthrew the French Armies. In the end peace was offered to the Earl by Legates from Rome, and from the French King, and confirmed upon condition that he should root out all of the Religion of the Albigenses in his Countries. Which he undertaking, ●●a●c. ●●gna. 〈◊〉 11 V●●●t. 〈◊〉 1 8●. Mass●●●●. 〈…〉 ●sh. ●5. V●●●●. cap. 10. 〈◊〉 seq. was absolved from his excommunication, Tolous reconciled: and at Tolous (in the year 1229.) a Council was held against Heretics; and shortly after, another Council at Narbona, and a third at Biterras. In which Counsels it was finally concluded, that all guilty persons should abjure their heresies, that the houses of Heretics should be demolished, &c also many straight statutes were made at Tolous against the Albigenses, anno 1233. What say you Antiquus? were not here great numbers visible enough, and mighty? against whom so great Armies were so often raised throughout Christendom, so mighty Wars made to bring them under the pope's subjection, such miserable massacres and bloodshed of so many thousands, and yet could never subdue them? Antiquus. You relate more than ever I heard, §. 11. or read, or ever imagined could be said for this point. I have always thought, and so have been taught, that there was never any great assemblies, or numbers of your Religion, but some few single, simple, obscure persons, that haply held some points with you, and many points different from you: nor ever any multitude, nor any of worth or respect, that opposed the Church of Rome. Antiquissimus. It is very likely that ignorance was the mother of your devotion to that Church, wherein not only the light of the Scriptures, but also the histories of the Church and of States, that would discover these things, are kept from you,, by your politic Leaders; and yourselves are willingly blinded, and affected with that self-pleasing idle-ignorance. But if you did judicially read your own Authors, which writ these things at large, or ours which collect them more briefly, and confirm them strongly by yours, (out of which I have abridged my short Narration) you could not but manifestly see and admire the tyranny of your pope's, that thus sought the rule and riches of the world; and both the multitude and constancy of God's servants, who sought the salvation of their souls with contempt of the world, and their own lives: Sectionis. 3. Subsectio. 3. The Waldenses were spread into all Countries: namely, for example, Spain, England, Scotland, Italy, Germany, Bohemia, Saxony, Pomerania, Polonia, Livonia, Lituania, Digonicia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Dalmatia, Constantinople, Sclavonia, Sarmatia, Philadelphia: in all parts of France: In Italy, also they had Churches in Lombardy, Milan, Romagna, Vicence, Florence val Spoletine, etc. Antiquus, But Sir, all you have yet said (for aught I conceive) concerns but one part of France, and that for a short time, some twenty or thirty years. Suppose your Religion had abundance of open professors in that little place, for that little time: what is a small part of France to all Christendom? and what are so few years to such succession and continuance as the Church of God must have throughout all Ages. Antiquissimus. If you desire satisfaction rather than contention, truth rather than victory, or victory only joined with the truth; you may gather sufficient out of that I have said to satisfy you; but to show this point more distinctly, (which in the lump, it may be, you observed not) first I cited out of your a Subsect. 2. §. 1. lit. a Rainerius, that there were three causes of danger to the papacy from the Waldenses, whereof the second was, because there was almost no Country free, into which that sect had not entered: and out of b Ib. lit. c Polinerius, that the Waldenses were spread, not only throughout France, but almost throughout all the Countries of Europe. For the French, Spanish, English, Scots, Jtalians, Germans, Bohemians, Saxons, Polonians, Lithuanians, and other Nations, have strongly defended it (yea, and he addeth) even to this day. And out of c Ib. lit, d. Gretserus your jesuite yet living, that scarce any Region or Nation remained f●ee, and untouched of it. And your d Matth. Paris ib. §. 8, 9 Mathy Paris saith, The Albigenses were so mighty in the parts of Bulgaria, Croatia, and Dalmatia, that they also drew Bishops, besides many others of those Regions to their parties. And that the Waldenses were not only in one part of France, but spread thorough all the parts thereof: §. 2. History of the Waldenses book. 2 cap. 2. the history of the Waldenses (gathered out of authentic Records, and public writers of your own side) showeth abundantly, and in several Chapters of the several places. Insomuch that the Archbishops of Aix, Arles, and Narbonne assembled at Avignion (anno 1228.) about the difficulties of the executions of those which the Dominican Friars had accused: said plainly, There were so many apprehended, that it was not possible to defray the charge of their fooding; nor to find enough lime and stone to build prisons for them. In the third Chapter mention is made of many Churches of the Waldenses in Daeuphine, Piedmont, Province, Calabria, and of great numbers of them in the Diocese of Aix, Arles, Ambrun, Vienna, Aubonue, Savoy, the Venetian Country, Dyois, Forests, the Principality of Orange, the City of Avignion, and Selon. More particularly: in the fourth Chapter are described the persecutions in Piedmont. In the fift Chapter, of the Marquisate of Saluces, and ne'er thereunto, from whence above five hundred families were banished. In the sixth Chapter, in the new lands, and in the Alps. In the seventh Chapter, in Calabria, where the Gentlemen used means to continue the Waldenses, a long time without persecution, because they were exceeding good Tenants, made the ground formerly barren, very fruitful by their diligent husbandry, paid great Rents, discharged all duties, were honest, just, innocent, peaceable and dutiful, and paid good Tithes to their Parsons, such as in former times the ground would not yield. Yet in the end, they were miserably persecuted and killed up, because they would not yield to the Romish doctrine, government, and ceremonies, which they abhorred worse than death. The Romish Inquisitor Pauza, cut the throats of fourscore of them, as a Butcher doth his Muttons, and set up their quarters on stakes in the high ways, and hanged others. Threescore women of Christ were racked, and most of them perished: nine of the chiefest and handsomest women were delivered to the Fathers of the Inquisition, and what became of them it is unknown The eighth Chapter describes them of Province, the parts of Cabriers, Meridal, lafoy Coste, and other places adjoining, with their great persecutions and massacres. §. 3. The ninth, tenth, and eleventh Chapters speak of their further spreading in great numbers in Bohemia, and Austria, and of the Communion by letters and messengers betwixt them. And of many in Germany, especially in Alsatia. About anno 1213. and 1220. §. 4. The twelfth Chapter showeth there were many of the Waldenses Religion in England, Matth. Paris. in anno 1174. some burnt in anno 1174, saith Math Paris, and in King Henry the second his time, many were grievously persecuted in England, saith Thomas Waldensis an English man. Waldens de Re sacram. lib. 6. tit. 12. cap. 10. Wiclife taught their very doctrine, and greatly spread it in England. Also in Saxony and Pomerania, and in the Diocese of Eisten, in Germany, (ib. cap 11.) were many Waldenses, they had twelve Pastors known, besides the unknown. Yea (as Trithenius reports) they were in such numbers, and so spread in Germany, that they could travel from Colen to Milan in Italy, and every night lodge with hosts of their own profession. §. 5. The thirteenth Chapter shows many in Flaunders, the fourteenth in Poland, Sigonius de Regno Italiae lib. 17. Rainer. in summa fol. 18. the fifteenth in Paris itself: the sixteenth in Italy, as writeth Sigonius. Rainerius saith, in anno 1250. The Waldenses had Churches in Albania, Lombardy, Milan, Romagna, and also in Vicence, Florence, and Val Spoletine. Anno 1280. there were many Waldenses in Sicilia, saith Du Haillan. Roger, Haillan in the life of Philip. 3. Sigonius lib. 17. King of Sicilia, made constitutions against them: and Pope Gregory the ninth, persecuted them in Italy, especially in Milan, as saith Sigonius. So did Honorius, and Boniface the 8. The seventeenth Chapter showeth, Rainerius de forma haereticor. fol. 10. an. 1250. the Waldenses had Churches in Constantinople, Philadelphia, Slavonia, Bolgaria, Digonicia, by the testimony of Rainerius, and they were spread into Livonia and Sarmatia, Vignier. histor. Biblio thec. part. 3. pag. 130. as Vignier showeth. Sectionis 3. Subsectio 4. §. 1. The Waldenses continued above 400 years, until Lutherrs time and after. §. 2. In England by means of Wiclife. §. 3. His doctrine, and many followers. Oxford Divines. §. 4. The story of john Hus, jerom of prague, and Bohemian affairs. §. 8. and 9 The continuance of the Waldenses after Luther's time. Luther wrote a Preface to one of their books. Letters passed betwixt them and Oecolampadius, Bucer, Caluin, etc. Antiquus. Enough Sir of their spreading, but except you show also their succession and continuance till Luther's rising, you can have no hope to satisfy. Antiquissimus. I have showed Counsels, consultations, persecutions, massacres, and mighty wars against them: whereby many thousands of them have been burnt, slain, rooted out, banished & wasted: Usher. ib. cap. 10. §. 64. but yet the marvelous hand of God, still appeared in preserving multitudes of them, in diverse and many places, in the midst of all their grievous and continual persecutions, their doctrine was still preserved, preached, believed, spread, continued, and delivered to posterity. Your a Thuanus hist. sui temporis in praefatione. Thuanus writing but the other day, saith, Supplicia parum prof●cerunt. Persecutions or punishments prevailed little. They were slain, banished, spoilt of their goods and dignities, and scattered into diverse Countries, rather than convicted of error, or brought to repentance. Surely as the persecution of the Apostles at Ieru●alem quenched not the Gospel, but b Acts. occasioned the spreading thereof in Samaria and remoter parts: so did the persecutions of the Waldenses in some parts of France, occasion their spreading into other parts and other Countries, as Germany, Bohemia, Polonia, Livonia, etc. as c Thuanus' ib. Thuanus there showeth. §. 2. In Britain (or England) the Waldenses doctrine was quickly received by many. Haply by means of the intercourse of the English people, with the great Earl of Tolous his subjects, by reason of the d Before subs. 3. §. 4. affinity betwixt those Princes, for in the year 1174, and in Henry the seconds time, there was persecution and burning of them, as e Subs. 2. § 6. Mathy Paris, and Thomas Walden have recorded. But that doctrine was more generally received, and had fuller passage in King Edward 3 reign, when f See Archb. Abbot against D. Hill. Reason. 1. §. 25 & Fox i●●ita Wicl ●●. john Wiclife, a learned Doctor of Divinity, g Bailiol College. Master of a College in Oxford, and public Reader of Divinity in that University, taught it there with the great liking & applause of the hearers and approbation of the whole University. For the Vicechancellor, Proctors, diverse Preachers and Bachelors of Divinity, took part with him. And when Bulls came thick from Rome against him and his Doctrine; First from Gregory 11. anno 1378. And afterwards from Gregory the 12, whereby he was to be condemned for an Heretic: The whole University gave a testimony in favour of him, under their seal, in their Congregation house, in these words among others. h Anno 1406. Octob. 5. God forbidden that our Prelates, should have condemned a man of such honesty for an Heretic, etc. §. 3. This man's doctrine (as the said Bulls of the two Popes did say) agreed with the doctrine of Marsilius Patavians, and Johannes de Ganduno. i Abbot. ib. This Marsilius, a very learned man in that Age (about the year 1324) had written a book (entitled Defensor Pacis) in defence of the Emperor Lewis of Bavier (who was mightily laid at by three Popes successively) demonstrating the supreme authority of the Emperor, and beating down the iniquity of the Pope's usurpations over Christian Princes and general Counsels: showing that things are to be decided by the Scriptures; that learned men of the Laity are not to be debarred voices in Counsels; that the Clergy and pope also are to be subject to Princes; That the Church is the whole company of the faithful; that Christ is the foundation and head of the Church, & hath not appointed any one to be his Vicar; that Priests may be married as well as other Christians; that S. Peter was never at Rome; that the Popish court or Synagogue is a den of thiefs; that the doctrine of the Pope is not to be followed, because it leadeth to everlasting destruction. The pope's being informed that this was also Wiclives doctrine, must needs condemn him, or yield themselves guilty. Many other positions were attributed unto him also, some bad enough, and undoubtedly false, as had been before to the Waldenses, and the Primitive Christians: but what he truly held, may be seen in his own works that remain, and in Mr. Fox writing his life, and in Catalogo testium veritatis, lib. 18. Gabr. Powel. De Antichrists: In Prafatione n. 25. The sum whereof Mr. Gabriel Powel (a diligent searcher and observer) delivereth thus: He taught, that there ought not to be one supreme Bishop in the Church: that the pope is not only not Christ's Vicar, but also that he is Antichrist: that his privileges, bulls, dispensations, and indulgences are not only idle and unprofitable, but also wicked and impious: that to spiritual men is not to be given the politic Dominion: that the pope and his Clergy have engrossed the Keys of the Kingdom of heaven into their custody, and neither enter themselves, nor suffer others to enter: he disallowed Transubstantiation, Masses, Offices, Canonical hours, and other Battologies: from Baptism he removed the Chrism, and taught that the faithful aught to be baptised with simple water, as Christ did: he disallowed Auricular confession, the papists doctrine of penance, satisfaction and worship of Relics: and the Invocation of Saints, (whom he called Servants, not Gods: for the word Knave which he used, signified in those days a servant, not as it doth in our days a wicked Varlet, as his enemies maliciously interpret it, Bellarmine for one, a man utterly ignorant of the English tongue.) He rejected humane rites, new shadows and traditions: he denied it to be lawful for any man to add any thing to the religion contained in holy Scriptures, and to make it harder, as he complained the pope had done: he thought fit that the palaces, and all that pomp and majesty of the Pope, and also diverse degrees of the Spiritualty, should be taken away: he condemned the orders of Monks, as superstitious, impious, and very hurtful to true Religion: and said they were to be forsaken as soon as could be: he defended the holy Communion in both kinds: he wrote (as Aeneas Silvius witnesseth) above two hundred volumes, mostwhat against the impious lives, traditions, and abuses of the Popes, Monks, and Clergy: for which he lived a while in banishment: but at last being restored, he had many favourers, (as appeateth by the writings of Walden) Knights and Peers of the Land, who in places under their government abolished Images, and cast out other rites of the Popes. [He flourished anno Dom. 1360. See Bale. century 6. chap 1.] These were the points of doctrine which Wiclife taught: for which, and other such like fathered upon him, he was condemned by the Council of Constance, forty years after he was dead and his bones digged up and burned. D. Abbot contra Hill. reason 1. §. 25. Histor. Waldens. lib. 2. cap. 12. His preaching while he lived, was evident, and so powerful, that beside the University of Oxford, it gained him many great favourers of the Nobility, as John of Gaunt, and the Lord Henry Percy, the one Duke of Lancaster, the other Marshal of England: Fox ex Regisiro & Ce●●tney. & Aot. Parlam. An. 5. Rich. 2. cap. 5. also Lewis Gifford, and the Chancellor, the Earl of Salisbury: and in a manner, all the inferior people, among whom it was preached in many places, in Churches, Churchyards, Markets, Fairs, and other places of great Congregations, so generally, commonly, publicly, with such plainness and evidency of the truth, and notoriousness of the abuses which he reproved, that it won all men's assent and liking; and took so large and deep root that it could not be rooted out, Gabriel Powel De Antichristo. edit. Lond. 1605. in praefatione. by all the means that for many years after his death, the pope's, Princes, Bishops and their officers could device or use. Gabriel Powel reckons up a great number of Divines of that one University of Oxford (beside all others) that from time to time, and age to age, even to Luther's time, maintained Wiclives doctrine in England and many of them were persecused and put to death for it: of which number, these are some: Vtred Bolton anno 1380. Io. Bale. cent. 6. cap. 85. and John Ashwarby, fellow of Oriel College, Doctor of Divinity Pastor of S. Mary's in Oxford, both of them much troubled for preaching and promoting Wiclives doctrine the same year, anno 1380. john Ashton, Fellow of Merton College, anno 1382. Ib. cap. 78. persecuted and finally condemned to perpetual prison. Philip Repington of Merton College, Ib. cap 90. afterwards Bishop of Lincoln, 1382. Nicholas Herford, Doctor of Divinity, Jb. cap 92. he taught that there was nothing in Wiclives Doctrine disagreeing from the holy Scriptures, 1382. Walter Brute of Merton College: Ex catalogo sociorum Merton. & Fox act. tom. ●. Bale. cen●. ●. cap. 2. ib. cap. 10. persecuted by the Bishop of Hereford, 1390. Peter Pateshal preached Wiclives doctrine ordinarily at London, and in the Court: avoided persecution by flying into Bohemia, 1390. At the same time, Richard With of Merton College, preached the same doctrine. Henry Crumpe, an Irish man, Doctor of Divinity in Oxford, Ib. cent. 14. cap. 58. Ex Waldeni fasciculo zizaniorum. first an adversary to Wiclife, but after convicted by his doctrine, taught it boldly: and being therefore persecuted by the Bishops, fled into Ireland, and there was long imprisoned by a Bishop, 1393. Catal. sociorum Mert. Richard Wimbleton, Fellow of Merton College. 1394. Fox act. & monu. William Sawtrer, a Divine of Oxford, imprisoned degraded, and finally burned, by Thomas Arundel, Archbishop of Canterbury, 1400. Fox tom. 1. William Swinderby, of King's College in Oxford: after preacher at Leicester, taught Wiclives doctrine being maintained by the Inhabitants against their Bishop's will: at last taken, was compelled to recant: but shortly after, repenting and gathering strength, and renewing his doctrine, he was burned in Smithfield, 1401. Walsing. in chron. Thomas Ocleve, maintained the doctrine of Wiclife and Berengarius, publicly in the schools at Oxford, 1410. Ludovic. Rabus in 3 parte de martyr. Fox. to ●1. Fox ib. William Thorp, Fellow of Queen's College in Oxford: examined, imprisoned, and there secretly put to death, by Thomas Arundel, Archbishop of Canterbury, 1407. Laurence Redman. David Sawtrey, William james, Thomas Brightwell, William Hawlam, Radulph Greenhurst, john Schut, grievously persecuted by the pope's friends, 1420. Capgrave lib. 1. de nobilibus Hen. Fox tom. 1. Sir john Oldcastle, Lord Cobham, student in Oxford under William Thorp, after many wars and victories for his Prince and Country, embracing Wiclives doctrine, with other Lords and Knights (john Clenborow, Lewis Clifford, Richard Stir, Thomas Latimer, William Nevel, John Montacute, he was lastly accused before the Archbishop of Canterbury, and finally condemned and burned in Saint Giles fields, 1417. Purvey in come. in Apoc. Bale. cent. 7. cap. 50. John Purvey, who wrote a learned Commentary upon the Revelation, reproving the pope as Antichrist, and the Babylonian whore: complained that many before him who had oppugned this spiritual Babylon, had been imprisoned, killed, and their books burnt: and that none was suffered to preach, but such as first swore obedience to the pope. He was secretly made away in prison by the Archbishop's appointment, 1421. William White, Fellow of Wickam College, Fox tom. 1. for his preaching was taken by the Archbishop, and compelled to recant, 1424. but quickly repenting, and publicly confessing his weakness and inconstancy with great lamentation, and renewing his former doctrine, at last he was taken and condemned to the fire by the Bishop of Norwich, 1428. Richard Wiche, Fellow of Wickam College, Ibid. burnt for the like profession, 1428. Peter Clerk, an Oxford Divine, Caxton. in aucta rio Polychron. cap. 19 Fabian. in Chron Bale cent. 7. cap. 86. Hondorf●n theat. hist. disputed with Thomas Walden, publicly in the Schools of Oxford, of many questions of Wiclives doctrine, for maintaining which being persecuted, he fled into Bohemia. afterwards he was chosen to be preacher to certain Christians, at Melda in France which misliked the corruptions of the pope; where in process of time, he and 62 of his hearers, were surprised by the Magistrate, and sent to Paris, bound in Carts: where 14 of the principal were burned the rest tormented, and put to other death's o● banished: he and Steven Mangris (in whose house they had used to meet and hear the Gospel preached) had their tongues cut out, then were hanged, and lastly burned 1433. The next day the Clergy went in solemn procession (carrying the host) thanking God for that happy execution: and a Doctor inveighing against the Martyrs, said it was necessary for every man to believe to his salvation, that these men were damned, whose bodies they had burned: and that God could not be God, if he did not damn them, 1433. Aeneas Sylu. in discript. Europae. & cap 49. hist. johem. Peter Pain, or Peacock, Fellow of All's ules' College in Oxford for his constant preaching against the Roman Antichrist, was fain to fly into Bohemia, whence he was sent with other Legates to the Council of Basil, where he defended the doctrine fifty days. He flourished, 1438. Bale. ibid. cent. 8. cap. 4. Roger Oueley in Oxford, Divine, Chaplain to the Lady Elinor Cobham, wife of the Duke of Gloucester: wrote a learned book against the people's superstitions: and for attempting something with the said Lady, against the papacy: he with some of his associates was executed and quartered at London: and the Lady banished into the I'll of Man, 1442. Bale. ibid. cap. 2. Humphrey Duke of Gloucester, son of King Henry the fourth, brother to the fifth, uncle to the sixth, having been educated in Oxford in Balliol College, was a great favourer of Preachers of the purer Religion: he was the Founder of a worthy Library in Oxford, which he enriched with an 129 most choice books, procured out of Italy and France. The Bishops and others hated him deadly, by whose means he was taken in Bury Abbey in the night, cast in prison, and there shortly after found suddenly dead, whether smothered by pillows or by some other means, 1447. Bale. cent. 14. cap. 99 Philip Norise an Irish man, Deane of Dublin, a Divine of Oxford, inveighed against Antichristian Monks and Friars, calling them Antichrists, Wolves, Thiefs, Traitors, Swine, Hypocrites, Heretics, more pestilent than the Arians, Pelagians, Donatists, Nestorians, orother Heretics whatsoever. For which the Friars complained of him to pope Eugenius, 4. from whom he appealed to a general Council, 1446. Bale cent. 8. cap. 12. David Boyse, Fellow of Merton College, a witty and learned man, embraced the sincere Religion, and abhorred the blindness and tyranny of the Clergy of his time, 1450. Ibid cap. 63. To omit many others, I conclude with john Colet, a Divine of Oxford, and Deane of Saint Paul's in London; he taught in Oxford, that Man's justification was by the mere grace of jesus Christ: that Images are not to be worshipped: that Bishops not feeding their flocks, are Wolves, etc. He was accused of heresy, by Richard james, Bishop of Lond n, and two Franciscan Friars, Bricot and Standish, 1507. which was but ten years before Luther's rising. john Hus might well say, §. 4. Hus tomo 1. in Replica conta● Anglicum joan. Stoaks fol. 108. a. & 109 b. & 110 a. that for thirty years (from Wiclives time to the time of Husses writing) the University of Oxford did read Wiclives books, and he yet saith further, that there was scarce a man to be found in that University, which did not read, hold, and study the doctrine that Wiclife taught. Hus speaks of 30 years, we find 100 years and more, even unto Luther's days. And if Oxford was so fruitful of such teachers, can we imagine that her sister Cambridge was barren? or that the Country yielded them no disciples? No, we read in most kings reigns of persecutions, and executions of them, beside the secret ones, whose persons escaped their enemies, and their names the histories, which doubtless were not a few. But were they many or few remaining in England, we see the learned professors being persecuted here, found good refuge & entertainment in Bohemia where (as we formerly observed) many Waldenses had planted themselves before. Some of them carried thither, first the books of Wiclife, entitled, De realibus Vniversalibus, (saith Aeneas Silvius. Aenean Silvius hist Bohem. cap. 35. Cochleus hist. de Hussitis lib. 1. ) Afterwards (saith Cocleus) Peter Paine brought into Bohemia, Wiclives books in quantity as great as Saint Augustins' works, many whereof john Hus translated into the Bohemian tongue, for the better instruction of the Waldenses there, of whom the said Hus, and jerom of prague were the chief pastors: Cochl. hist. lib. 2. Bellar praefat. general. cont●ouers. and of his name their adversaries called them Hussites. Cochleus and Bellarmine join the Wiclefists, Hussites and Waldenses together, as holding the same points of doctrine, and reproving the same abuses of Rome. The same Cochleus also saith, The Hussites and Thaborites were branches of Wiclife, Cochleus' ib. lib. 2. 3. & 6. Platina in vita joan. 24. and (lib. 6.) calls the Germane Protestants, New Wiclifists. And Platina saith, The Hussites as Sectators of Wiclife, were condemned in the Council of Constance. Thus therefore (by these confessions and many other) the Waldenses doctrine was continued (not now to name others) in the Wiclifists, and Hussites. john Husse (a very careful and painful man) translated also the holy Scriptures into their mother tongue: whereby the common people were so well grounded in the soundness of his doctrine, and multiplied so much in short time, that w Onuphrius in tabula council. ad Platinae hist. partly to repress them, and partly to take away the schism between the Popes, the Council of Constance was called. x Fox in council. Constant. histor. D. Abbot. ib. §. The Nobles of Bohemia so much favoured Hus, that they wrote two several supplications to the Council in his behalf: but for all that, and contrary to their and the Emperor's safe conduct, (or promise that Hus & jerom of prague should go and come safely) both Hus and jerom were there burnt: whereat the Nobles of Bohemia greatly displeased and complaining, the Emperor Sigismond y Cochleus lib. 4. laid all the fault upon the Council. §. 5. z Ibid. The Bohemians thus rob of their principal Pastors, were much moved at the perfidiousness of those at Constance; and assembled together to the number of thirty thousand, and in the open fields, upon three hundred Tables (which they erected for that purpose) they received the holy Communion in both kinds. Afterwards rushing into the Churches and Monasteries, Cochleus lib. 5. & Petrus Messiah in Sigismundo they broke down the Images there: and not long after under the conduct of Joannes Zisca (a noble and victorious Warrior) they grew to be forty thousand strong in one Army, and got into their hands the Castle of Prague the chief City of Bohemia. Shortly after (contemning the Curses and Croysadoes of Pope Martin) they won many victories under the leading of Procopius and other Captains; but especially under Zisca, of whom a lib. 5. Cochleus saith, scarce any Histories of the Greeks', Hebrews, or Latins, doth mention such a General. He built a new City of Refuge for his men, named Thabor, whereof the best of the Hussites were called Thaborites. Upon a new Croisado of Pope Martin (wherein he promised remission of sins to all that would either fight or contribute money against the Hussites) forty thousand Germane Horsemen were gathered to destroy them: §. 6. but upon their approach they turned their backs and fled; not without some secret judgement of God, saith Cochleus b lib. 6. . Then was the Council of Basil called (saith c Onuph. ib. Onuphrius) against the Hussites: and in that Council (contrary to the Act of the Council of Constance d Session. 13. ) the use of the Cup in the Sacrament was granted to the Bohemians: an argument of their great numbers, and unresistable strength at that time. For the Books of Hus, full of wholesome and moving Doctrine lived though he was dead; and through the memory of his constant standing for the Truth against the whole Council, and the Councils perfidious and outrageous burning of a man so learned, so painful, so greatly beloved and lamented, his books were earnestly desired and read, and won many. The like wrought the memory of jerom his admirable learning, eloquence, memory and patience in his death: e Poggius Epist. ad Leonardum Aret. num. which Poggius in an Epistle doth very much commend, (being an eyewitness) and feelingly describes thee same, as one much affected with his excellent parts. Recorded also by Cochleus f Lib. 3. . So that notwithstanding the continual opposition against them, they continually increased, and in short time got a Bishop, Suff●agan to the Archbishop of prague g Ib. lib. 4. and after him Conradus the Archbishop himself on their side, to give orders to their Clerks, and to help for the compiling a confession of their faith, anno 1421 h Ib. lib. 5. . Which the Archbishop and many Barons afterwards did stiffly maintain, and complained against the Emperor Sigismond, for offering wrong to those of their Religion. Alexander, Duke of Lituania, gave them aid, and was reproved by pope Martin 5 for it. And Sigismond in fine (in a treaty with the Bohemians) granted that the Bishops should promote to holy orders the Bohemians even Hussites which were of the University of prague i Ib. lib. 8. . §. 7. Aeneas Silvius complaineth, that (about the year 1453.) the Kingdom of Bohemia was wholly governed by Heretics for that all the Nobility, and all the Commonalty were subject to one George or Gyrzik●, who then was governor under K Ladislaus, & afterwards was King himself. Who with all his Nobles showing undaunted constancy and resolution, rather to dye then forsake their Religion, caused the pope Pius to tolerate many things in them. But his successor Paul the second excommuicated King George, publishing a Croisado against him, and gave his Kingdom to Mathias, King of Hungary: for which they warred for seven year's space, and in the end concluded a peace. But while some Princes mediated to the pope for King George his absolution, Abbot. ib. §. 18. he died, anno 1471. not long before Luther's rising, §. 8. And your k Cochleus lib. 2. Cochleus (who wrote his history in Luther's time) showeth that the Hussites continued to those days. For (saith he) Hus hath slain souls for an hundred years together, neither doth he yet cease to slay them, by the second death. And again, l Ibid. Hus did so rend the unity of the Church, that at this day there remaineth a pitiful division in Bohemia. And, m lib. 8. unto this day remaineth the sect of the Thaborites in many places of Bohemia and Moravia, under the name Picards and Waldenses. And, n lib. 12. in the year 1534, he wisheth that he may see the remainders of the Hussites to return to the Church, and the Germans to cast out all new sects. And it is certain that in the very year 1517. wherein Luther began to oppose the corruptions of Rome, the Council of Lateran ended under pope Leo the tenth, and consultation was had there and then, of reforming the manners of the Church, and of recovering the Bohemians to the unity thereof. o See the book extant. And D. Featlie● Reply to Fisher pag. 154. Luther himself writeth a Preface to the confession of faith, which the Waldenses (then odiously called Picards) dwelling in Bohemia & Moravia, did set for●h, which he greatly approveth & commendeth to godly men to read: with thankes to God for the unity which he found betwixt them and us, as the sheep of one fold. Besides, we find many Waldenses remaining in France, §. 9 in, and after Luther's time. p Vesembe●. Oration of the Waldenses citat, in history Wald. book 1. cap. 5. See ib. book 2. cap. 8. Anno 1506, Lewis 12. King of France, hearing much evil of the Waldenses in his Realm, sent the Lord Adam Fumce, Master of Requests, and Parvi a Doctor of Sorbon, his Confessor, to try the truth; who visiting all their parishes and Temples in Provence, found indeed no Images, nor ornaments of Masses or other Ceremonies: but they found also no such crimes could be found in them as were reported: but that they Religiously observed the Sabbath days, baptised their children after the order of the Primitive Church, taught them the articles of the Christian faith, and the Commandments of God, etc. Upon which report, the King said, (and bound it with an oath) that they were better men than he or his people. The same King being informed that in the valley of Frassinier, in the Diocese of Ambrun in Dauphiney, there were a certain people that lived like beasts, without Religion, having an evil opinion of the Romish Religion: he sent his Confessor with the official of Orleans, to bring him true information thereof: who found them all so truly righteous and religious, that the Confessor wished in the presence of many, that He were as good a Christian as the worst of the said valley. q joachim Camerar. in his hist. pag. 152. King Francis 1. successor to Lewis 12. seeing th' Parliament of Provence, grievously afflict the Waldenses of Merindal, Cambriers, and places adjoining, appointed William de Ballay, Lord of Langeay, than his Lieutenant in Piedmont, to search and inform him more fully of them. Upon whose information of their piety, honesty, charity, peaceableness, painfulness, and dutifulness, he much puttied them. r Hist. Wald. book. 2. cap. 8. And one Guerin an advocate, was hanged for falsely informing the King against them. But the Ecclesiastickes persecuted and massacred them cruelly. Ibid. cap. 4. In this King's time the Waldenses sent two of their Pastors, one George morel of Frassiniers in Dauphine, the other Peter Masson of Burgundy, to the Protestant Ministers, to wit, to Oecolampadius, Minister at Basse, to Capito and Martin Bucer at Strasburg, and to Berthaud Haller at Berne, to confer with them about some points of Religion; where they found so great agreement in their faith, with equal mislikes of the Romish corruptions, that they much rejoiced and praised God, that had continued them and their fathers in the truth of that doctrine above four hundred years in in the midst of many troubles, as they writ. The letters passing between them are to be seen in the History s Ibid. cap. 8. & lib. 1. cap. 6. . The like letters passed betwixt Preachers of the Waldenses and Calvin t To be seen among calvin's Epistles Epist. 250. . I hope I have satisfied you concerning these Waldenses; first, that they were fully of our Religion u Subsection 3. subsect. 1. . Secondly, that they were in great numbers, and made great visible Churches x Subsect. 2. . Thirdly, that they were spread in diverse Countries y Subsect. 3. . Fourthly, that they continued from the time of your great Revolt from the purity of Religion, unto the late and more public Reformation by M. Luther z Subsect. 4. . Antiquus. Indeed you have said very much, both for the Greek or East Church, that it held your faith, and so continueth: and also for these Separatists, the Waldenses in the West. But you * Section 2. subsect. 2. mentioned a third part, that many continuing in outward communion with the Church of Rome, were yet truly of your Faith and Religion: let me hear what you say of that part, and you shall have my reply against them all. Section. 4. §. 1. The Church of Rome (excepting the Papacy, and the maintainers thereof) continued to be the Church of God until Luther's time: proved by many Protestant Divines. §. 2. Their Reasons. §. 3. But now then the state of that Church, is much altered, since the new light in Luther's time and since, fully discovering the corruptions thereof. §. 4. And since the great alteration made by the Council of Trent. Antiquissimus. I say, first, that I have already alleged a great number living in community with Papists in outward Ceremonies, which yet in substance of Religion, were ours and not yours: as the followers of Wiclives doctrine, and other teachers in all Countries, which were innumerable (as may appear by my former Relation) many of them being persecuted for it, and many other (known among themselves, but) concealing themselves from the●r persecutors. §. 1. B. Usher. B. White. Mr. Ric. Hocker. But now I say further (with D. Field, Luther, Calvin, Beza, Morney, Melanchthon, Bucer, Mr. Deering, Bishop Carlton, and many other learned Protestants) that setting aside the pope and Cardinals, and their Hierarchy, with the maintainers thereof (which I account no part of the Church, but a domineering faction, tyrannising over the Church) the Church of Rome (consisting of the rest, which were innumerable) continued to be the Church of God, and in substance all one with us until Luther's time. Thus teacheth Doctor Field, Of the Church, Book 3. chapter 6. And in the 8 chapter, he addeth, although we do acknowledge Wiclife, Hus, Jerom of prague, and the like, to have been the worthy servants of God, and holy Martyrs and Confessors, suffering for the cause of Christ, against Antichrist: yea, we do not think that the Church was found only in them, or that there were no other appearance or succession of the Church and Ministry, as Stapleton and other of that faction falsely impute unto us. For we most firmly believe all the Churches in the world, wherein our Fathers lived and died, to have been the true Churches of God, in which undoubtedly salvation was to be found, and that they which taught, embraced and believed those damnable errors which the Romanists now defend against us, were a faction only in the Churches, as were they that denied the Resurrection, urged Circumcision, and despised the Apostles of Christ, in the Churches of Corinth, and Galatia. This matter D. Field prosecuteth there, and also in the Appendix to the fift book, part. 3 pag. 7. Luther is also alleged by Bellarmine, De not is Ecclesiae cap. 16. out of his book against the Anabaptists: we confess (saith Luther) that under the Papacy, there was much good, yea all Christian good, and it came thence unto us, the true Scriptures, two true Sacraments, true keys for remission of sins, true office of preaching, true Catechism, as are the Lords Prayer, the ten Commandments, the Articles of Faith; Yea, I say moreover, that under the papacy was true Christianity, yea the very kernel of Christianity. Calvin in his fourth book of Jnstitutions, chap. 2. §. 11. saith, That God suffered not his Church to perish, in France, Italy, Germany, Spain, and England, having made his Covenant with them, but it continued there through effectual Baptism and other remainders: though for men's ingratitude he suffered the building to be much wasted, rend, and torn. Beza in his questions saith, The Church was under the papacy, but the papacy was not the Church, Master Perkins hath the like, in his Exposition of the Creed, pag. 405. edit. Cambridge, 1596. Morney, in his Treatise of the Church, chapped. 9 In the later end delivereth the same: That under the papacy was the Church and Flock of Christ, but governed, partly by hirelings, partly by wolves, and that Antichrist held it by the throat, the people were of the Christian Commonwealth: but the pope with his faction, a Catiline to set it on fire, whom Cicero fitly calleth a plague, and not a part of the Commonwealth, borne Ex luxu reipublicae; as an imposthume or disease is no part of the body, but a corruption bringing damage and death. Bucer and Melancthon teach the same. Mr. Edward Deering, in his Lectures preached in Paul's Church in London, upon the Epistle to the Hebrews, Lecture 23. pag. 374. hath these words. In this was the great goodness of God, that in time to come, his children might assuredly know, he reserved to himself a Church, even in the midst of all desolation: and that he called them by his word, and confirmed by his Sacraments, even as at this day. For seeing there could be no sin so great, but faith in Jesus Christ scattereth it all away, it was impossible, that the man of sin doth not so much adulterate, either the Word of God, but that it should be to the faithful a Gospel of salvation: or else the Sacramenta of God, but that they should be pledges of eternal life to those that did believe. And a little after, God of his infinite goodness, who calleth things that are not, as though they were, even in that Ministry gave grace unto his Saints. Bishop Carlton, wrote a book of purpose, entitled, (Consensus Ecclesiae catholica contra Tridentines) to show that although the doctrine of Christian Religion was much altered in the chiefest Articles of Faith by Friars: yet a great number of godly learned men held the ancient truth, and preserved the Church until the times of Reformation, and that the Reformed Churches still continue the same, and are separated only from the Roman Court, so fare as the Roman Court had separated itself from the Roman Church: and that our Fathers and Ancestors, living & dying in the Roman Church, had sufficient means to bring them to salvation. And this he showeth in the several discourses of the principal fundamental points of faith. See of this matter also Bishop Usher, De successione Ecclesiarum, cap. 6, § 8, 9 and his Sermon. And Archbishop Abbot, against Hill. Reason 5. §. 28. And Mr. Richard hooker's discourse of justification. §. 2. Their Reasons are, I. The corruptions in the Roman Church, sprung not up all at once, nor came to their full height until these late years: and were not so dangerous in their Spring, as in their full growth and strength. D. Field. book 3. chap. 6. Of the Church. & Append. to the 5. book part. 3. pag. 8. etc. II. They were not generally received by all men, nor as the undoubted determinations of the Church: but controverted and variously disputed among the learned, and holden with great liberty of judgement by the greatest Doctors (as appears by their own books of Controversies written by Bellarmine, Suares, Azorius, etc. which confute their own writers as much as they do Protestants: and by those 27 points which D. Field mentions in his Appendixe to the seventh Chapter of the third book of the Church, printed at the end of the fourth book) for had they been the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church, all men would have holden them uniformly, entirely, and constantly, as they held the doctrine of the Trinity and other articles of the Faith. As long therefore as men yielded outward obedience to the Church-ceremonies without scandal, and in other things were suffered to abound in their own sense, there was no such danger in holding the right faith. III. Our forefathers held the true foundation of Religion that is, justification and Salvation, by jesus Christ his merits only: and so were taught ordinarily in their books of visitation and consolation of the sick * As we shall show in the article of justification. : and they erred only in points inferior, of less moment and danger (which defaced indeed and blemished, but did not nullify or take away the being of the Church.) Diseases in the heart, brain, liver, and vital parts, are dangerous and deadly: but wounds or blemishes in the fleshly, sensual, or organical parts only (as the hands, feet ears, eyes, etc. do only impair the beauty and actions, but endanger not the life, nor cut of hope of recovery. Greg. Nissen. de opific. hom. cap. vlt. It is Saint Gregory Nissens Simile. So (saith he) it is with the Church of God, and Religion. A man is a man while he hath life, though he be sore diseased; as Naaman was in his leprosy. FOUR They misliked and derided (as Chawcers ploughman) many of their ceremonies and idle things (as holy water, pardons, relics, etc.) and deplored the greater corruptions and abuses: and cried for reformation, most readily receiving it when it came. V In what they erred, they erred ignorantly, Aug de utilitate credendi ad Honorat. Idem epist. 162. ad Donat. with minds ready to be reform, upon better information. Saint Augustine puts a difference betwixt Heretics and them that believe Heretics. And he saith, They that defend an opinion false and perverse without pertinacious animosity, especially which not the boldness of their own presumption hath begotten, but which from their seduced and erroneous Parents, they have received; and themselves do seek the truth with care and diligence: ready to amend their error, when they find the truth: they are in no wise to be reckoned among Heretics. This was the case of our fathers under the Papacy. VI If any did err in points fundamental (as long as they denied not the foundation directly: See of this more, chap. 4. sect. 3. for that is plain infidelity or apostasy, and quite cuts them off from the Church) if they did it only upon mere ignorance, with a mind ready to reform their error upon better instruction: those were still the accounted members of the true Church. For this was the case of the Corinthians, denying the resurrection of the dead (1 Cor. 15.10,) and of the Galatians, erring dangerously about justification (Gal. 3.3, 4 5. & 5.4.) whom yet Saint Paul calls Churches of God, 1 Cor. 1.2. Gal. 1.2. and doubtless he would not have taken such pains to write unto them, except he had so thought them, and had hope to find them tractable and recoverable. §. 3. Antiquus. Sir I hearty thank you, I need hear no more, nor trouble you any longer: since you allow the Church of Rome to be the true Church of God, wherein salvation may be had, and you allege great Doctors of your own side, and good reasons for it: I am satisfied. I have no reason to cleave to your Church (which all our Catholics condemn for heretical and schismatical) and to leave the Roman, which you acknowledge to be the true Church, wherein salvation is to be had. The Roman Church is justified on all hands, by friends and enemies to be safe: yours is condemned of all but yourselves. I will take my leave. See this more at large in D. Field in the places before alleged, and B. Carlton, jurisdiction, & consensus, etc. Antiquissimus. Stay, good sir, and draw no more out of my words than they yield you. I spoke of the Church of Rome, as it was till Luther's time, and you conclude of the Church of Rome, as it is now: Deceive not yourself, there is great difference betwixt them; betwixt the times, then and now; and betwixt that Church, then and now. In those times the errors of our forefathers were of mere ignorance: what they perceived to be evil, they misliked, they desired knowledge, they wished many things reform, and gladly embraced reformation when they found it coming. But now it is all otherwise: now men are admonished of their errors, offer is made them to be better instructed: and yet either they dote on their own old opinions, unwilling to be instructed in the revealed truth: or after sufficient knowledge and conviction, for some worldly respects they wilfully and obstinately persist in their old errors; and (which is fare worse) they hate and persecute the maintainers of the truth. Saint Cyprian saith, if any of our predecessors, Cypr. ep. 63. §. 13. either of ignorance or simplicity, hath not observed and held that which our Lord hath taught us by his Word and example: by the Lord's indulgence, pardon may be granted to his simplicity; but to us, that are now admonished and instructed of the Lord, pardon cannot be granted. The ignorance therefore wherein our Fathers were bred and trained freed them from the danger of those things, which being well understood and known, B. Usher. serm. at Wans●ed. pag. 39 might have been prejudicial to their soul's health. They knew not these depths of Satan, they could not dive into the bottom of such mysteries of iniquity; This was a good and a happy ignorance unto them. But this ignorance is now taken from you, Reuel. 2.24. and a more happy knowledge offered you; happy, if you have grace to receive it, if not, then remember that, john 3.19. This is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness more than the light. And, john 15.22. If I had not come and spoken unto them (saith our Saviour) they had not had any sin: but now have they no cloak (or excuse) for their sin. There is therefore great difference of the former times, and these, then means of better knowledge was denied to our Fathers; now it is afforded to you that gave some excuse to them, this takes all excuse from you. They that walk in the night, though they stumble and fall, foil and soil themselves, yea, hurt their bodies, and tear their , by rushing upon bushes, or into bogs: yet are ordinarily pitt●ed, and pardoned, yea, and commended for their desire and pains to find home: but so are not they that rush into the same evils in the fair daylight. God pitieth the blind, that would fain see and cannot: but will he pity them that may see and will not? that harden themselves in their affected wilful blindness? He delivered Ionas from drowning in the bottom of the Sea: Usher. ibid. pag. 41. will you plunge yourselves therefore, to see if God will deliver you? Because we grant, that some may scape death in Cities, and Streets, infected with the plague; will you therefore choose to take up your lodging in a Pest-house? If you do, we may well say, Lord have mercy upon you: but you may justly fear, that you dangerously tempt the Lord, to deliver you up to the efficacy of delusion and damnation, 2 Thess. 2.10.11.12. You see therefore a manifest difference of the times: the times of darkness before, and the times of light now. §. 4. Mark now also another difference of the Roman Church, as it was in those times, and as it is now. In those times the errors that were, D. Field. Church book 3. chap. 6. & cap. 47. & Append. were the errors of some men only in that Church: now they are the errors of the whole Church. In those times men might be of that Church, and not of that faction: now that Church and faction are all one. B. Carlton. The faction hath so prevailed by the Art of the Council of Trent, that the errors which some held before, now all of that Church must hold. Before, they were held with much liberty of judgement, they were not determined, men might assent or descent, and abound in their own opinions: now they are all made De fide, the absolute determinations of that Church, and imposed upon all men, under pain of Anathema, or curses annexed. That Council (being wholly ruled by the mere faction of the Papacy) hath quite altered the state of that Church, taking away all liberty that former Ages enjoyed in many things, and making many new points of faith, which were not so before. Therefore, before the Council of Trent, D. Hall Columba Noe. men might do well in that Church, when meat being set before them, they might pick out the worst, and eat the best; pick out the unwholesome, and feed on the wholesome; pick the worm out of the apple, pair away the corrupted, and eat the sound; take the Spider out of the bowl of Wine before they drink it. But now, where they are cursed, if they eat not all, and compelled to drink down all: they that love their lives must take heed of that society. To answer your question therefore directly [Where was the Protestant Church before Luther's time?] that is, where was any Church in the world, that taught that doctrine which the Protestants now teach? Sect. 2. subsect. 2. I say it was not only apparent enough in the Greek and Eastern Churches: and in the open separatists (Waldenses, Section 3. etc.) from the Romish corruptions in these Western parts: Section 4. but it was also within the community of the Romish Church itself. Even there (as in a large field) grew much good corn among tares and weeds: Lib. 1. cap. 1. there (as in a great Barn, Heap, or Garner) was preserved much pure Grain, mixed with store of chaff. And (as I said in the beginning of our Conference) there is no other d fference betwixt the Reformed and the Romish Church, then betwixt a field well weeded, §. 5. D. Field Church Book 3. cap. 6. and the same field formerly overgrown with weeds: or betwixt heap of corn now well winnowed, and the same a heap lately mixed with chaff. And if it be a vain and frivolous thing to say; B. Usher ser. ibid. pag. 48. It is not the same field, or the same Corn, now after the weeding and fanning; as vain and frivolous it is to say the Church is not the same it was, or in the same place, after it is swept, and cleansed of the filth and dust: or to say, the Churches of Corinth and Galatia (after their reformation occasioned by Saint Paul's writing) were new Churches, and not the same they were before: because that in them before, the Resurrection was denied, Circumcision practised, Discipline neglected, & Christ's Apostles contemned: which things now are not found in them: or to say Naaman was not still the same person, because before he was a leper, and now is cleansed. As long as we can demonstrate that nothing is altered that doth constitute the Church or is of the true essence or being of it: the Church is the same it was, only the leprosy, and other corruptions are cleansed away; and the health, beauty, and better habit restored, that it may more comfortably breed and bring up children to God, and heirs of salvation. And this is the blessed and long-wished alteration, that we have made. And I would to God you had not made an unworthy altration, from a corrupt Church, to a fare worse, and either altogether, or very near none at all! by continuing, increasing, establishing the corruptions you found, making them now De fide, points of faith, compelling all to receive them, and persecuting, even to extirpation (as fare as by power and policy you can) the gainsayers of them. See before sect. 4. §. 4, initio. If the Protestant Church be new, yours is newer. The Tridentine faith is not so old as Luther, never seen in the world of many years after his death. CHAP. 2. Answering the vain alleging of some words and customs, and corrupt alleging of the Father's words against Protestants. § 1. Objection. None (alleged in the former chapter) agree with Protestants in all things: ergo, are not of their Church or Religion. 2 Answered. It is no consequent. For so also every one of them differed from the present Romish Religion, and yet are accounted theirs. Protestants have justly abstained from some words and phrases of some Fathers. 3 And also have left off some ceremonies and customs. 4 As the Church of Rome hath left many, known to be ancient, and thought to be Apostolical. 5 Which confutes the vanity of W.G. his book; and shows his own alleged authors, by his own argument, to be none of his Church and Religion. 6 By the same argument, many Fathers (for example, Athanasius, jerom, Gelasius, Gregory, chrysostom, Augustine) are plentifully proved to be against the present Church and Religion of Rome. 7 Four several ways (at the least) the Romish make show of the Fathers to be for them. The first, by alleging counterfeit books, falsely bearing the Father's names. Many examples hereof. 8 The second, by corrupting the books which the Fathers wrote, putting words in, or out, and altering the text, to speak contrary to their meaning. 9 The third, by blinding or perverting the sense of the Father's sentences by glozes and interpretations. 10 The fourth, by citing the Fathers to prove that which is not in question. §. 1. Antiquus. NOw that you have said what you can, or will, to show that Protestants had a sufficient visible Church in all Ages since Christ: I reply, you never had any. For neither the Fathers nor Greek Church, nor Waldenses, nor the Church of Rome before Luther's time, were of your Religion. Campian. Ratio 5. For the Fathers, it was Mr. Campians fifth reason, why he challenged combat with the Protestants, because all the Fathers backed him. Ad Patres si quando licebet accedere, confectum est praelium. If we may try it by the Fathers, the fight is at an end. For they are as sure ours as Pope Gregory the 13. These, and the other three sorts, every one of them, either in many points, or at least in one or other differed from you. As the Rhemists say in their Annotation upon Rom. 11. ver. 4. We will not put the Protestants to prove that there were 7000 of their sect, when their new Elias, Luther began: but let them prove that there were seven or any one his either then, or in all Ages before him, that was in all points of his belief. Thus the Rhemists. §. 2. Adrationes Campians G. Whitakeri responsio, ad rationem. 5. Antiquissimus. The vanity of Campian, you may see by D. Whitakers answer, who shows that every one of the Fathers, whom Campian picked out and named, held points directly against him and for us. Even Dionysius Cyprian, Athanasius, Basil, Nazianzin, Ambrose, jerom, chrysostom, Austen, Gregory. The vanity of your Rhomists, and other lipellers following them, is palpable, in that they think every small point of doctrine, or practice, yea, every small rite or ceremony, used by some, and not used by others, makes a difference of their Religion. We do not deny, but that we have left off and disused diverse traditions, ceremonies, and phrases, which were used in the ancient Church, but we constantly affirm we carefully and entirely hold all the substance of doctrine, and all things necessary for salvation, not only for the essence, but for the perfection, beauty, and ornament of the Church: so that notwithstanding the things left off we are wholly and fully of the Primitive and ancient Religion. A●tiquus. Why have you left off any words and phrases of the ancient Fathers: if you hold their doctrine, why forsake you their words? Antiquissimus. Bellar. De cultu Sanctorum lib. 3 cap. 4. Ad testim. patrum dico. & De Romano Pontif. lib. 3. cap. 13. §. Ratio autem cur Apostoli in Scriptures nunquam vocant sacerdotes Christianos', sacerdotes, sed solum episcopos & presbyteros &c. See Here. cap. 5 sect. 9 See this matter handled a● large by. B. Morton. Appeal. lib 2. cap. 7. & B. Andre●es. Ad Bellarmini Apologiam, Responsio cap 8. pag. 184. Because those words are now taken to signify such doctrines as then they intended not. Their doctrine we hold, though some of their words we do not so frequently use: you usurp those words, but refuse their doctrine. Your Bellarmine tells us truly, that the Apostles and first Christians abstained from the words Temple and Priests, using the words Ecclesiae, Episcopi & Presbyteri. And thus, justinus, Ignatius, and the other most ancient Fathers used to speak. The reason was, lest people might understand them, as if they meant that the jewish ceremonies continued, with the Temple of Solomon, and the sacrificing Priests. But afterwards in Tertullia's time, when the danger of that misconceit was worn out, Christians began to call Presbyters and Bishops, by the name of Priests, etc. So that the words which the Apostles and first Fathers never used, for fear of mistaking, the following Fathers ordinarily used, hoping (after that long disusing) they should not be mistaken: they used the words, Priests, (or Sacerdotes) altars sacrifices, oblations, and such like, not properly, but by allusion to the Priests, altars and sacrifices of the jews, which were types, figures and (as it were) foretokens or foreprophesies of Christ's sacrifice, offered once by himself for the sins of the whole world, which was the Antitype & verity of those of the Jews; and was continually to be remembered again, as oft as the blessed Sacrament of his Body and Blood was celebrated. ●useb. demonstr. Evang. lib. 1. c. 10. Chrysost. hom. 17. in Hebr. Ambr. in Epist. ad Hebr. 10. 〈◊〉 August. in Psal. 75. Jdem. lib. 20. adverse. Faustum Manichaeum cap. 21. tom. 6. Thus the Fathers have expressed their own meanings: Eusebius, Christ hath offered a marvelous sacrifice for the salvation of us all, commanding us to offer unto God a memorial instead of the sacrifice of his Body and Blood. chrysostom, we offer up the same sacrifice which Christ offered, or rather a remembrance thereof: the like hath Ambrose. Augustine saith, when we do not forget our Saviour's gift, is not Christ daily offered for us? Christ was once offered for us:— and by that memory he is so daily sacrificed for us, as if he daily renewed us. And more fully, Sacrificij nostri vera caro, & caro Christi olim in veteri lege per victimas pollicebatur, in passione vero Christi & in cruse per veritatem reddebatur: at hodie in nostre sacrificio per sacramentum, memoriae celebratur. Sententiarum lib. 4. distinctio. 12. lit. g. The Master of the Sentences asketh, whether that which the Priest holdeth, may be called properly a sacrifice or offering; and he answereth, that which is offered and consecrated by the Priest, is called a sacrifice and oblation, because it is a memorial and representation of the true sacrifice, and holy offering made upon the Altar of the Cross. Bellar. De Missa lib. 1. cap. 15. §. Alter modus. These, and many other testimonies Bellarmine allegeth, and laboureth by wit to elude, saying, it is so indeed, but not only so. He will not only have it to be a commemorative and representative, but a true and proper sacrifice of Christ's Body and Blood, really the same host, not differing from his Body in heaven, and the immolation or sacrificing of him in the forms of Bread, Concil. Trid. sess. 22. cap. 2. & Alanus de Euchar. sacrif. lib. 2. c. 12. the very same with his sacrificing upon the Cross: as the Council of Trent speaks. The controversy therefore is, concerning the proper and improper signification of the Father's terms. They take them as properly spoken, as of a true real propitiatory sacrifice, available in itself for remission of sins; and so turn the Sacrament into a sacrifice, profitable without receiving: and the Priest's office (which should be in preaching and ministering the Sacraments, Matth. 28. Mark. 16.) is now only to say Mass, or offer up the daily sacrifice, frustrating Christ's institution with a gainful invention of their own. In regard of this mistaking of the Father's words of Priests, altars, sacrifices, Ministers the ordinary word of the new Testament, Rom 15.16. 1 cor 3, 5. & 4.1. & 2. cor. 3.6. & 6.4. Eph. 3.7. cor. 1.7, 23, 25. & 4.7. 1 thes. 3.2.1 tim. 4.6. And their office or work called Ministry, Act. 6.4. & 20.24. & 21.19. & 12.25. 2 cor. 58.1. & 6.3. Eph. ● 12. col. 4.17 4.2 1 timoth. 1.12 1. tim. 4. Communion 1 cor 10.16. table 1 Corinth. 10.21. The Lords Super. 1 cor. 11.20. 2 Kings 18.4. See Cassander consultatio artic. 7. De ecclesia § De Pontifice Rom. etc. and of the abuses arising thereupon; we rather choose the words of Scripture and of the more ancient Fathers, Ministers, Communion Table, Sacraments, than those words which are never used in the New. Testament, nor in the ancientest Fathers, but by them purposely avoided, for fear of being mistaken, by your own confession. The same reason therefore that moved the blessed Apostles and Primitive Fathers to abstain from those words, the same reason ●o●es us to do the like. §. 3. Antiquus. But why have you left off any of those customs and ceremonies which were used by the Fathers? what reason had you for that? Antiquissimus. First, the same reason that Hezekiah had to break & abolish the brazen Serpent, which had been of good use to the honour of God, and edifying of men: but in his time was abused to be an instrument of Idolatry. Secondly the same reason that S. Paul had, against the Agapae or Feasts of Love, 1 Cor. 11.19, 20, 21, 22. For, (as your Rhemists acknowledge upon that place) at first the richer Christians made feasts (bringing store of meat and drink to the Churches) to joy and cheer up themselves and the poor that wanted, when they came to receive the holy Sacrament: which Feasts were called Agapae, Feasts of Charity. These Feasts afterwards through abuse, became occasions of pride in them that had to bring, of contempt to them that had not, of gluttony and drunkenness, yea, of rejecting the poor, and of the foremost, devouring all without expecting one another. This occasioned Saint Paul's reproof of them then: and the whole abrogation of them afterward. August. epist. 119 ad januar. cap. 19 See B. Morton. Appeal. lib. 1. cap. 3. sect. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Thirdly, the same reason also that Saint Augustine had to complain of the multitude of rites and ceremonies grievous and burdensome to the Church in his time, which continually increased till our times, and with the mulitude and painful or too careful observance thereof, much decayed the due observance of the substantial points of Religion. As too many branches of the Vine, hinder the fruitfulness; and therefore good husbands prune them off. Fourthly, and finally, the same Reason which the Roman Church itself had, to disuse or abolish many customs, traditions, rites and ceremonies formerly used, whereby they justify us. Antiquus. Name some of them I pray you. §. 4. See B. Morton. Appeal lib. 2. cap. 25. sect. 10. and the Authors there alleged. & Bellar. De Euch. lib. 4. cap. 28. Antiquissimus. Our B. Morton delivers you a dozen at once, citing his Authors and places of their books for them: (1) the threefold dipping in Baptism, in memory of the Trinity, thought by Dionysius, Basil, Athanasius, jerom, Austen, Ambrose, to be an Apostolical tradition; now (saith Binius and Canus) abolished, and one dipping or sprinkling, thought sufficient by the common consent of Divines. (2) Removing the old custom of tasting honey in Baptism, spoken of by Tertullian and jerom. (3) Of abrogating the ceremony of washing the feet, in Baptism, spoken of by Saint Ambrose and Augustine, epist. 119. cap. 28. (4) Decreeing also (in the Council of Trent, sess. 21. cap. 4) the administration of the Eucharist unto Infants, (used six hundred years in the Church) to be unnecessary and unfitting, Maldonat, comment. in joh. 6. Binius. (5) ●he custom that it was not lawful to Baptism but only at Easter and Whitsuntide, is abrogated, be-because of the dangers of common life. Durand. (6) Night vigils mentioned by Tertullian and jerom, and praised by other Fathers, forbidden to Women by the Council of Elliberis, to be in Churchyards: and afterwards in the Toledan and Tridentine Counsels. Binius. (7) The standing at public prayers, all the time betwixt Easter and Whitsuntide, decreed by the Nicene Council, and observed by the ancient Fathers, as Saint Ambrose and jerom witness, and counted an Apostolic constitution: now have left no footsteps of it, Durand. Cassander. (8) Washing of the bodies of the dead, used by the Ancients, mentioned by Tertullian, Eusebius, and Gregory. Durand. (9) The Feasts of Charity (called Agapae) mentioned in the Constitutions of Clement, reproved by S. Paul to the Corinthians, but in other Churches long continued, the Council of Laodicaea forbade; now they are forgotten. Bovius. (10) The dispensing with an Apostolical Canon concerning the Consecration of Bishops. Bel. Binius. (11) The neglecting of the Wednesdays and Fridays Fast in the East Church, (by the 68 Canon of the Apostles) or of Friday and Saturday in the West (by Apostolic Constitution) mentioned by Clemens, Jgnatius. Epiphanius, Athanius and others. Bovius. (12) Of fourscore and four Canons of the Apostles, scarce 6 or 8 are observed in the Latin Church, saith Michael Medina; cited by D. Rainolds, Thes. 5. Unto which I might add many other things, as 1. The times of prohibiting marriage, much abridged. For by some ancient Counsels (as namely that of Laodicea, celebrated above twelve hundred years agone) there were three times prohibited from the celebration of marriage (which the Church of England still observeth. Concil. Laodice. cap. 25. Bellar. De Matrimonio. lib. 1. cap. 31. §. Alterum imped. & §. Ratio hujus. Concil. Trident. session. 24. ca 10 1 From Advent to the Epiphany; 2 From Septuagesima, until a week after Easter; 3 From the days of Rogation, until a week after Whitsuntide. But the late Council of Trent, hath only continued the first entire: cut the second shorter by 16 days (beginning with Lent, and ending a week after Easter) and the third it hath quite cut off. Concil. Trident. sess. 24. canon. 3. 2 The degrees prohibiting marriage, both enlarged and abridged. For, the Council of Trent hath this Canon; If any man say, that the degrees only expressed in Leviticus of consanguinity and affinity, do hinder the contracting of Matrimony, and dissolve it being contracted: and that the Church hath not power to dispense in some of them, or constitute that more degrees may hinder and dissolve: let him be Anathema. Here is a change of God's law, losing where God hath bound, binding where God hath loosed. And they accursed that grant not this power to the Roman Church. Bellarmine de Matrimonio lib. 1. cap. 29. initio. And here is a change of the Church's custom also. For Bellarmine addeth, Recte Catholica Ecclesia conjugia prohibuit olim usque ad septimum, postea vero usque ad quartium gradum consanguinitatis & affinitatis. The Catholic Church in former time rightly forbade marriage to the seventh degree; and afterwards to the fourth degree of consanguinity and affinity. Concil. Trid. sess. 21. cap. 3. & canon 1, 2, 3. 3 And yet the Church of Rome is bolder, even to change Christ's own Ordinance and Institution of the Blessed Sacrament of his Body and Blood, denying the Cup to the people, and accursing them that hold it necessary for the Laity; although the whole Church used it above a thousand years together. And yet they hold themselves to be one and the same Catholic Church that so long used it. In their opinion therefore, the abrogating or changing of traditions or ceremonies (howsoever they declaim against Protestants for such matters) cuts not men off from being of the same Church that used them. Antiquus. Indeed, ceremonies are inventions of men, and therefore alterable by the wisdom of the Church, as times place, and occasions require. And the Church may ordain new ceremonies also, as Bellarmine teacheth. lib. 2. de effectu Sacramentorum cap 31, §. tertia propositio, etc. Antiquissimus. I let pass much superstitious and sacrilegious doctrine which Bellarmine there uttereth, attributing almost as much to Ceremonies invented by men, as to the Sacraments ordained by Christ. And I accept what is granted, that being invented by men, they are alterable by men: and not being of the substance of Religion the using or disusing of them makes no alteration or difference in Religion. Saint Augustine discoursing of the diversity of ceremonies and customs in several Churches and Countries, tells a story of his mother Monica, Aug. epist. 118. who coming to Milan, and finding that they fasted not upon saturdays, (as in her country they did) was much disquieted in her mind (as at diversity of Religion,) and knew not what to do: but she was resolved by Saint Ambrose, Bishop of that City, that such things made no difference of Religion. When I come to Rome (saith he) I fast on the Saturday, when I am at Milan, I fast not. So you to what Church soever you come, Ejus morem serua, si cuiquam non vis esse scandalo, nec quenquam tibi. Observe the custom of that Church, if you will not be offensive to others nor others to you. Here observe, Rome and Milan, two great Cities in one Country, both in Italy, yet had several customs and ceremonies, which to some weak consciences, through ignorance might be offensive, yet were they all of one Religion in substance; and for rites or ceremonies, at that time Milan was no more bound to obey Rome, than Rome to obey Milan. §. 5. As your Rhemists insinuate Annot. upon Rom. 11. ver. 4. But now if a man be not in all points (though never so small) nay in all traditions, rites, and ceremonies conformable to the ancient Church, or to the Church of Rome late before Luther's days; you count him not of the same Religion. One of your idle Pamphleteers (idle for the matter he brings, but too to busy in lying and railing, one W. G. (ashamed belike to add his full name) professor in Divinity, writes a Book, points and repoints it, Permissu superiorum 1619. entitled, A Discovery of shifts, etc. His principal matter is to show, that before Luther's time, No man was ever of the Protestants Religion: His reason, because all men held one point or other, at least tradition, rite, or ceremony different from the Protestants, which he labours to show by running thorough a great number of Instances, not considering, that by the same reason it might be as well proved, that never any man until the late Council of Trent was of the Papists Religion. For he asketh thus: First, was Dionysius Areopagita, a Protestant? and answereth, No, for he maintained traditions, spoke of Altars, places sanctified, rasure of Priests, burning of incense at the Altar, etc. Answer. To omit that many doubt, and some censure the books imputed to him to be counterfeits, (as Casetan, Valla, Erasmus, Possevin, and Bellarmine: see Censura librorum Roberti Coc. pag.) I ask again, was Dionysius Areopagita, a Papist? No: for he hath many things of the Eucharist, which condemn Private Masses, Communion under one kind only, and Transubstantiation. See C●talogus testium veritatis lib. 1. Secondly, Was Papias (scholar to Saint john Evangelist) a Protestant? No, saith W. G. for he defended Traditions, and Peter's primacy, and Romish Episcopality. How then? was he a Papist? No, say we, for he taught such traditions as Papists condemn, as namely the error of the Chibiasts or Millenaries, and said it was a Tradition delivered from the Apostles, Baronius anno 118. n. 5. etc. & n. 2. Thirdly, was Ignatius a Protestant? No, for he approved traditions, limbus patrum merits, and the real presence. Not so, But was he than a Papist? no, for Protestants cite him against Transubstantiation, and Communion under one kind; private Masses, and the Pope's supremacy. Catalogus testium, lib. 2. & appendice pag, 2087. Bellarmine rejects the Greek copies of his works being against the Papists. Fourthly, was Tertullian a Protestant? no for he hold the Montanists heresy. Was he a Papist then? no, for the same reason, also he writes sharply against the Pope's budding supremacy, and against Transubstantiation, and for the sufficiency of Scriptures to confute heretics, See Catal. test. lib. 3. Fiftly, was Saint Cyprian a Protestant? no, saith he, for he was a Montanist also; was he than a Papist? no, for Papists condemn Montanists as well as Protestants also, he equals all the Apostles with Peter, rejects the pope's authority & infallibility, gives sentences against Purgatory, acknowledgeth two Sacraments only, hath much against Transubstantiation, and denial of the Cup. See the allegations out of him in Catalogo testium lib. 3. Sixtly, was Jrenaeus a Protestant? no, for he defended freewill so fare, that Protestants count it Pelagianism. So did many other Fathers, Hilary, and Epiphanius: yea, chrysostom, Cyril, Ambrose, Theodoret. What then? were all these papists? No, for though in heat of exhortation they gave sometimes too much to free will, and in hatred to the Manichees and Stoical Christians that held such a fatal necessity of men's actions as took away man's guiltiness of sin: yet in their more moderate and settled writings, they taught as the Protestants do. August. contra julianum l'clag. lib. 1. cap. 2. Pelagianis nondum litigantibus, Patres securiùs loqu●bantur; saith Saint Augustine, Until the Pelagians began to wrangle, the Fathers took less heed to their speeches. But such their speeches, The Papists themselves condemn. Maldonate in John, 6.44. pag. 701. Pererius in Rom. 9 nu. 33 pag. 1001. Sixtus Senensis. Tolet, etc. See D. Mortons' Appeal. lib 2. cap. 10. sect. 1, 2. §. 4. &. sect. 3. §. 7. lit. n. See also my Chapter of . §. 6. I might run thorough the rest of this W. G. his allegations, and show his vanity and folly, in shooting such arrows against the Protestants, as being retorted and shot back again, do mortally and unrecoverably wound his own cause. But I will leave off following his order, and add a few more; and by occasion of this last, I ask of Saint Cyprian, Augustine, Fulgentius, Gregory Nyssen, Gregory the Great, Anselm, Bernard, were they Papists o● of the now Roman-Catholicke Religion? No, for they taught concerning , just as the Protestants teach, Morton ib. sect. 3. Was Athanasius a Papist? no, for he reckons the number of Canonical books, otherwise than Papists do, and magnifies them for their perspicuity, certainty and sufficiency, as Protestants do: he teacheth justification by faith only; writeth against adoration and prayer to Saints, and Idolatrous worship of Images: shows the custom of the Church in his time, to minister the Communion in both kinds, and not on Altars but tables of wood, writes to the Bishops of Rome, as his brethren and equals: gives reasons why the dead cannot appear again to men, for fear of teaching lies, and errors, and because the good are in Paradise, the evil in Inferno. He counts marriage of Bishops, a thing indifferent, and used indifferently in his time, and it appears by his books, that in his time the sacrifice of the Mass, and the five new Sacraments were not known. Was Saint jerom a Papist? no, for he earnestly maintaineth the sufficiency and excellency of the Scriptures; & exhorteth married Women, Virgins, & Widows, diligently to study them; he teacheth justification by God's mercy, and beateth down man's merits: he writes sharply against freewill without God's grace against purgatory, against transubstantiation and oral manducation: he taxeth the pope's supremacy, and the Clergies lives: and for his sharp writing he was fain to fly from Rome. See Catalogus testium lib. 4. Was Gelasius (your own Bishop of Rome) a Catholic of your now Roman Religion? no, for he condemdemned (as sacrilegious) your now-halfe Communion (without wine) and severely commanded either to minister both the kinds, or neither to the people. The necessity whereof now you call heresy. De consecrat. dist. 2. comperimus. Was S Gregory (your own Bishop likewise, long after Gelasius) of your Church, and now-present Religion? no for he taught the sufficiency and perfection of the Scripture, rejected the Apocryphal books from the Canon, held the reading of Scripture profitable for all men; justification by faith, and not by inherent righteousness, wrote against man's merit, and for the glory of God's grace and mercy; he forbade the worshipping of Images: and wrote sharply against the title of universal Bishop, as a badge of Antichrist, or his forerunner, etc. And (for conclusion of this point) were the other two greatest Doctors of the Church, Saint chrysostom, and S. Augustine, of your present Religion? No, for, Saint chrysostom a Homil. De Lazaro. & passim alibi. extolled the authority, dignity, sufficiency, perspicuity, necessity, and commodity of the Canonical Scriptures, and exhorted Laymen, and Tradesmen to get them Bibles, and read the Scriptures at home, and that man and wife, parents and children, should reason and confer of the doctrine thereof. b In 4. cap. Ephes. hom. 10. He taught that the Church of God was nothing but a house built of our souls, and the stones thereof were some more illustrious and fair polished, other more obscure and of less glory: c In Matth. hom. 55. & 83. & Serm. de Pentecost. tom. 3. that the Church was built not super Petrum, but super Petram, not upon Peter, but Peter's confession, (that Christ was the Son of God, the Saviour of the world:) d In Matth. hom. 35. ad cap. 20. That whosoever desired primacy upon earth, should find confusion in heaven, and not be reckoned amongst the servants of Christ: e In 2 Thess. homil. 3, & 4. That Antichrist would command himself to be honoured as God, and fit in the Church: that he would invade the Roman Empire, and strive to draw to himself the Empire or Rule of God and men. And though he extolled the power of freewill in the Regenerate, and exhorted all men to use the power they had: yet he f In Gen. hom. 29. persuaded the godly to acknowledge it to proceed from God's grace: and taught all men, that sin entering lost their liberty, corrupted their power, and brought in servitude: and g Hom. de Adam. that without God's grace man could neither will, nor do any thing that was good; that h Hom. 1. in Acta. as they that die Purple, first prepare it with other colours, so God prepares the cares of the mind, and then infuseth grace: that i Hom. 1. dom. Advent. before sin, we had freewill to do good, but not after: that it was not in our power to get out of the Devil's hand, but like a ship that had lost his stern (which guided it) we were driven whither the tempest would, even whither the Devil would drive us, and except God by the strong hand of his mercy did lose us, we should continue ti●l death in the bonds of our sins k In R●m. ●om. 5. & 17. That the Law would justify man, but cannot; for no man is justified by the Law, but he that wholly fulfils it, and that is not possible to any man. l In 2 cor. hom. 11. He that must be justified by the law, must have no spot found in him, and such an one cannot be found, but only jesus Christ; m In Rom. hom. 5 & 17. therefore he only hath attained the end and perfection of the Law; n Hom. 7. in 3. cap. ad Rom. as soon as man believeth in him, he is presently justified. Consequently, o In Psal. 142. Ne intres in iud●cium. man can have no merits to trust unto, there is nothing properly his own, but sin. p In 1. cap gen. hom. 2 & serm. de fide & de lege nat. Yet faith wrought in us by God's grace, will be fruitful in good works, or else it is a dead faith and unprofitable. He taught q Hom. 4. de penitentia. & hom. 12. in Mat. & in 15. de muliere Chananaea. prayer to God only, and directly; without running about to Patrons or Intercessors, Mediators, Porters (naming james, John, Peter, and the Choir of Apostles) take (saith he) repentance for thy companion, to supply the place of an advocate, and go to the head fountain itself. Of the Eucharist (though he have many rhetorical and hyperbolical speeches in the vehemency of his moving the people to humble devotion; as, Thou seest, touchest, eatest Christ; and he suffereth teeth to be fastened in his flesh, and to be made red with his blood: which r Bellar de Euchar. lib. 1. cap. 2. §. quinta Regula & de Missa l●b. 2 cap 10. §. ad illad. Valentinian. tom. 4. in Thom. disp. 6. quest. 4. punct. 3 §. quare non est assentiendum Alano. jesuites confess cannot be understood properly, without impiety: but tropically of the signs only, not of the body which cannot suffer of us, nor be violated: yet) he hath much against Transubstantiation; for he saith, s Hom. de Eucharist. The Table is furnished with mysteries, thou seest bread and wine, but think not that you receive the divine body, of a man. Ne putetis quod accipiatis divinum corpus ex homine. And, t Hom. 11. Op. imperfect. in Mat. in his vasis sanctificatis, non est verum corpus Christi, sed mysterium corporis ejus continetur. In these hallowed vessels there is not contained the true body of Christ, but the mystery of his body. Also, u Hom. 83. in Matth. if thou wast incorporeal, he would have given to thee his incorporeal gifts naked: but because thy soul is joined to a true body (in sensibilibus intelligenda tibi traduntur) in things sensible, are delivered unto thee things to be understood. Again, x Hom. 7. in 1 Cor. An unbeliever seeing the water of Baptism, thinks it is simply water: but I, do not simply see what I see but I consider the purging of the soul by the spirit, and the burying, resurrection, sanctification, justice, redemption, adoption, inheritance, and Kingdom of heaven. For I judge them not by sight, but by the eyes of my mind. He writes also y In 1 Cor. hom. 27. against private Communions, when people do not communicate (called now private Masses) and z Hom. Oportet. haereses esse. half Communions, without ministering the Cup to the people. Against Purgatory after this life, he saith, * In Matth. hom. 4. & hom. 3. de poenit, & hom. De Lazaro. He that washeth not away his sins in this life, shall find no comfort afterward: * Hom. 7 in Matth. as when a ship is sunk, or a man dead, neither can the Sailor, nor Physician help it. When we are once gone, nothing is lest to satisfy for us. * Homilia 2. de Lazaro. while we are here, we have fair hopes: but being once departed, it is not in us to repent afterward, or to wash off our sins. Saint Augustine writes fully and plentifully a Aug. De unitate Ecclesiae, & alibi p. s●●n. for the perfection and sufficiency of the Scriptures to determine where the true Church is, and to end all Controversies, and b De doctr. christ. lib. 2. ca 9 plain enough to ground all necessary doctrines upon: c De Bapt. contra Donatistas'. lib. 6. cap. 3. that the Church to which the promises of grace and salvation belong, is the company of faithful believers and that wicked men do not belong unto it: d Ib. lib. 7 cap. 51. & de unitatate Eccl. cap. vlt & alibi saepe. they may be in the Church, but not of the Church, in the house, but belong not, ad compagem domus. e Retract. lib. 2. cap. 21. That Peter was not the Rock wherein the Church is built, but Christ, f In psal. 44. & psal. 60. & and that we are Christiani, not Petriani, etc. the Rock was Christ, g De verb. Dom. serm. 13. in mat. & tract. 124. and upon the Rock which Peter confessed (saying, Thou art Christ the Son of the living God) I will build my Church; Upon me, not upon thee. They that would be built upon men, said, I am of Paul, and I of Apollo's, and I of Cephas, that is, Peter; but others that would not be built super Petrum but super Petram, said, Ego sum Christi. Quomodo nec in Pauli, sic nec in Petri, said in nomine Christi, ut Petrus aedificaretur super Petram, & non Petra super Petrum. He writes that h Tract. 118. & 114. in joan. & libro quaest vet. & novi test. quaest. 93. the Keys of binding and losing were not given only to Peter alone, but in him to the whole Church, that all the Church might have power to bind and lose sins. Of Antichrist, he saith, i De civ. Dei l b. 20. cap. 19 He shall sit in the Church of God, and k In psal. 9 extol himself above all that is worshipped, and come by wicked arts to that vain height and domination: and l De civ. Dei. ibid. when the Roman Empire is taken away, then Satan by Antichrist shall work mirabiliter, sed mendaciter, with lying wonders. Saint Augustine reports and applauds Saint Cyprians speech to the Donatists, thus: m De Baptismo contra Donatist. None of us makes ourselves Bishop of Bishops, nor doth by tyrannical terror compel his fellows to the necessity of obedience: seeing every Bishop for the licence of his liberty and power, hath his proper judgement, as if he could not be judged of another, as himself cannot judge another, but we must all expect the judgement of our Lord jesus Christ, who alone hath power, both to set us in the government of his Church, and to judge of our acts. A doctrine plain against the pope's supremacy. Against Transubstantiation (though Bellarmine cite him for the truth of Christ's body delivered, which we deny not) he writes plainly; delivering a Rule how to know figurative from proper speeches in the Scriptures: n De doctrine Christiana lib 3. cap. 15. & ib. that When a precept seems to command a fowl or wicked act, or forbidden a good and profitable thing, than it is to be taken figuratively: He gives this for an example; Except you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink his Blood, you, have no life in you: this in the proper sense seems a foul and wicked thing: figura est ergo: Therefore it is a figurative speech. And he defines Sacraments to be o Contra Maximinum. lib. 3. cap. 22. Sacramenta sunt signa, aliud existentia, aliud significantia. signs, being one thing, and signifying another. And of this Sacrament he saith, p In psal. 98. Non hoc corpus quod videtis manducaturi estis, & bibituri illum sanguinem quem fusuri sunt qui me crucisigent. Sacramentum aliquod commendavi vobis. You shall not eat this body which you see, nor drink this blood which they will shed which crucify me. I commend a certain Sacrament thereof unto you. And he often beats upon this, that though wicked men do eat the sign and Sacrament, yet none but the worthy receivers do eat rem Sacramenti, the very Body of Christ q Serm. 11. de verbis Apostoli . And Manducabant illi Panem dominum, judas panem domini contra dominum: illi vitam, ille paenam r Tract. 59 in johannem. See also Tract. in joan. 11. & 13. & 26. & De civ. Dei. lib. 21. cap. 25. De Doctp. christiana lib. 3. cap. 9 epist. 23. ad Bonifacium & epist. 57 De Trinitate lib. 3. cap. 10. Contra Adimantum cap. 12. Contra Faustum lib. 20. cap. 21. & alibi passim. . He held two Sacraments of the new Testament, only s Epistola 118. & Libro 3. de doctrina Christiana. cap. 9 Baptism, and the Lords Supper. Calvin t Calvin. Instit. lib. 4. cap. 17. § 28. , Peter Martyr, and the rest of the Protestants count Saint Augustine wholly theirs, as did Berengarius before them, by Bellarmine's confession u Bellar. de Euchar. lib. 2. cap. 24. initio. . Saint Augustine condemns Image-worship. Fellow not (saith he x De moribus ecclesiae lib. 2. cap. 34. & De civ. Dei. lib. 8. cap. 27. See Vines comment upon it. ) the company of ignorant men, who in true Religion are superstitious, worshippers of Sepulchers and pictures, which customs the Church condemneth, and daily laboureth to correct. And he saith y De fide & symbolo. cap. 7. Contra Adimantum cap. 13. , It is great wickedness to place the Image of God in Churches. And that to worship the Prototypon (sampler, or thing resembled) by an Image resembling it (as the Heathen excused their Idolatry) is an absurd, servile, and carnal thing z De doctr. Christiana. lib. 3. cap. 7, 8, 9 See in psal. 113 & epist. 49. . And he writes against Pilgrimages for Religion. Serm. 3. De Martyribus. Of Purgatory (a thing which came to be imagined in his days) in some places a Encherid. cap. 69. & de octo quaest. Dulci●ij qu. 1. De side o●er. cap. 16. De civ. Dei. l●b. 21. cap. 26. he doubteth whether there be any such place or no: but in many places he giveth sound reasons to overthrew it. The Catholic Faith (saith he b Contra Pelag. Hypogn. lib. 5. ) resting upon Divine authority, believes the first place, the Kingdom of Heaven: and the second Hell:— a third we are wholly ignorant of: Yea, we shall find in the Scriptures, that it is not. c De pecc. merit. & remiss. lib. 1. cap. 27. & lib. 24. De civ. Dei. c. 15. & serm. 232. de tempt. There is no middle place, he must needs be with the Devil, that is not with Christ. d De verbis Apostoli serm. 18. There are two habitations (after death) una in igne aeterno, altera in regno aeterno. And, c Homil. 5. when we are passed out of this world, no satisfaction remaineth. And, f Epist. 80. wherein every mans own last day finds him, therein the world's last day will hold him: For, such as in this day every one dies, such in that day he shall be judged. Again, g Epist. 54. there is no other place then in this life to correct our manners: for after this life every one shall have that which in this life he sought to himself. For, h De verbis Dom. serm. 37. Christus suscipiendo paenam, & non suscipiendo culpam, & culpam delevet & panam. Christ by taking upon him our punishment, and not taking our sin, hath put away both our sin & punishment. He that holds these things, cannot hold Purgatory. In brief therefore, In all these former points: And furthermore, against , and for God's grace: against Man's merits, and justification by our inherent righteousness: and for justification by God's free mercy, and Christ's merits only: for the doctrine of faith and good works: for prayer to God alone, and by the only Mediator jesus Christ: against the adoration and invocation of Angels and Saints departed: and other the most necessary and profitable points of Theology, Saint Augustine was no Papist, but wholly and entirely of the Protestants Religion. §. .7 Antiquus. How can this possibly be so? when (you see) our Catholics do continually cite Saint Augustine, chrysostom, and the rest of the Fathers, for confirmation of their doctrine, and against yours? Antiquissimus. They may, first cite books under the names of the Fathers, which the Fathers never wrote: secondly, they may corrupt the Fathers, putting in or out, words or phrases, to alter their sense, and speak contrary to their meaning: thirdly, they may by glosses and interpretations wrist the sentences which they find in them, to mean otherwise then they intended: and fourthly, they may alter the state of the questions betwixt us, and then allege the Fathers against their own fancies, not against our Doctrine. And by these means they may cite and multiply the Father's names in show against us, but in truth nothing to the purpose. And thus they do. First, they allege many books and writings, which were not written by those holy learned Fathers whose names they bear. For examples. Our Bishop Jewel propounding 27 Articles which the Church of Rome holdeth at this day: for confirmation of any one of which, if any man living could show him any sufficient sentence of any old Catholic Doctor, Father, or general Council, etc. within 600 years after Christ: he would yield and subscribe. See Casaubon. Prolegom. §. Spectare ad. Master Harding undertaking to answer, alleged for ancient Doctors and Fathers; The Constituions Apostolical of Clemens, Abdias, Dionysius Areopagita. The decretal Epistles of ancient Popes, Amphilochius, and such like: which are all censured by their own learned men, for counterfeit writings, unjustly attributed to the Reverend Authors, whose names they bear. Observe them well. Clement's Apostolic Constitutions are cited also by the Rhemists a Rheims Test. annot. in Luc. 4.1 to prove Lent Fast to be as ancient as the Apostles times: and by Bellarmine b Bellar. lib. 1. de clericis c. 12. , for the antiquity of Ecclesiastical Orders: Also c See Bellarmine's several Treatises of these things. for vows of continency; for prayer for the dead; for holy water, for reservation of the Sacrament, for mixing Wine and Water in the Sacrament, for confirmation, etc. And yet Saint Hierom (a great searcher of Antiquities) knew not these Constitutions of Clement. And 227 Fathers in the Trullan Council rejected them, as corrupted writings. And so doth d Baronius anno 32. n 18.19. et anno 102 9 Baronius in his Annals. Abdias is rejected for a counterfeit by e Baron. an. 31. n. 18. & 51. n. 51. Baronius, by f Possevin. Apparat sac verbo Severus Sulp. Possevine, by g Bellar. De bonis operib. in particulari. lib. 2. cap. 24. Bellarmine; yea by h Sixtus Senens. Bibl. lib. 2. Apostolorum. Paul the fourth Bishop of Rome, saith Sixtus Senensis. Dionysius Areopagita, is not author of the books that go under his name, saith i Caietan. comment. in Act. 17 Cajetan, as also k Valla. & Eras. in act. 17. Valla, and Erasmus, and l Photius apud Possevinum Apparat. sac. verbo Photius. Photius, Bellarmine m Bellar. lib. 2. de confirm. cap. 7 doubts of them, Yet those books are cited by the n Rhem. in Luc. 21.19. Rhemists, for the sacrifice of the Altar: and by o See Cook cens●ra pag. 50. Bellarmine, for Invocation of Saints, and for Purgatory, and to prove the book of Wisdom to be Canonical, and for the form of Monastical profession. The Decretal Epistles, which are said to be written by more than thirty of the first Bishops of Rome, which lived in the first three hundred years (set down in the late Editions of the Tomes of the Counsels of Crab and Binius, printed anno 1606.) and often cited for the pope's supremacy, and in other Controversies, and greatly magnified by some pope's: yet are plainly found to be counterfeits, both by many reasons, and by the Romists own confessions. Reasons, first, the barbarous Latin, or rather Led of their style, most unlike the elegant style of that Age. Secondly, the likeness of the style in them all, which proves them to be all of one man's writing; and that in a fare more barbarous Age. Thirdly, the scriptures in them alleged after jeroms' Translation, which Translation was not made, nor in use of deuers hundred years after. For the last of these Bishops died before jerom was borne p Baronius, saith the last of these Bishops, died anno 333. and jerom was born anno 342. See conference of D. Rainolds and Hart, chap. 8. divis. 3. and D. Field. church. book 5. chap. 34 and 42. . Fourthly, neither Eusebius in the East, nor jerom in the West (after search of all libraries, to furnish their histories and memorials) do any where mention these Epistles. Fiftly, Nether were they ever spoken of, or alleged in the tough Controversies betwixt the Bishops of Rome, and the Bishops of Africa, concerning Appeals to Rome, which Controversies, these Epistles would have clearly ended, if they had been at that time extant, showed, and approved. Beside all this, the Romish Doctors themselves account them no better than corrupted writings, or suppositious. So their own Cardinals, q Cusanus De concordia Cathol. lib. 3. cap. 2. Cusanus, r Bellar. de Romano Pontif. lib. 2. cap. 14. Bellarmine, and s Baron. anno 265. n. 6, 7. Baronius find them: and t Conlius annot. in dist. 16. c. septuaginta. Contius utterly condemns them as false. Amphilochius Bishop of Iconium, and the Narration of Saint Basils' life going under his name, gloriously cited by Master u Harding. art. 1. divis. 33. Harding, to prove private Masses, and by x Bellar. de confirm. cap. 5. Bellarmine, to prove confirmation a Sacrament, and by y Cosler. in Enchiridio. Costerus the jesuite, for the Real presence: yet is rejected as false, by z Baron. anno 378. n. 10. & anno 363. n. 55. Possevin. Apparat. sac. verbo Amphilochius. Bellar. lib. de script. eccles. ad ann. 380. Baronius, and by Possevine; yea, and by Bellarmine himself. To avoid infiniteness, I will insist upon Tracts falsely imputed to Saint Augustine. Bellarmine in one place lib de script. eccles. ad annum 420.) amongst many others reckons these: 1 liber de Eccl. dogmat. 2 lib. de Fide ad Petrum. 3 lib. de mirabilibus scripturae. 4 lib. de spiritu & anima. 5 lib. viginti unius sententiarum. 6 lib. de salutaribus documentis. 7 lib. hypognosticon. 8 lib. de Predestinatione & gratia. 9 The Epistles to Boniface, and of Boniface to Austen. 10 Explicatio Apocalypsis 11 Some Sermons, De verbis Domini. 12 Sermons ad Fratres in Eremo, which also Baronius rejects a Baronius anno 382. n. 26. & anno 385. n. 12. among many other. Also, 13 Epistol. ad Cyrillum, de gestis & obitu Hieronymi, cited by Bunderius for invocation of Saints, and by Peresius, for choice of meats: is not Saint Austin's, saith Bellarmine b De script. Eccles. ad annum 390. and Baronius c Baronius an. 420. n. 46. . 14 De spiritu & anima (cited by Turrian, to prove that Saints in heaven hear the prayers of the living, and by the Colonienses for Invocation of Saints;) is not Saint Austin's, say d Trithem. de script. eccles. Trithemius, e Lovan. in censura in tom. 3. Theologi Lovanienses, and f Delriu● disquis mag. lib. 5. cap. 26. Delrius. 15 Sermons de tempore serm. 2. cited by Bellar. for the real presence: serm. 55. for Canonical hours: serm. 60. and 62. for satisfaction to God by fasting: serm. 124. and 142. for Peter's primacy: and serm. 226. cited by the English of Douai, to prove the book of Tobias Canonical: and serm. 228. and 229. cited by Serarius, to prove the book of Judith Canonical: and serm. 244. cited by Sonnius, art. 3. for invocation of Saints, etc. These Sermons de tempore, were not written by Saint Augustine, say Erasmus, and Martin Lipsius. The Lovan Divines reject 48 of them, and suspect all the rest but 47. so that 48 are counted plain bastards and 145 doubted. 16 De vera & falsa poenitentia (cited in the Tridentine Catechism, for auricular confession, g Cathechis. Trident. fol. 320. and by h Alan. defence. purgator. cap. 1●. Alan and others, for Purgatory) rejected by Erasmus i Erasm. cens. sura in hunc libruus. , and the k Lovanienses censura in Append. tom. 4. Divines of Lovan, and l Trithemius de script. Eccles. Trithemius, and m Bellar. lib. de Script. Eccles. ad annum 420. Bellarmine, and many others. 17 De quaestionibus vet, & novi testamenti, cited by Turrian, for n Confess. Aug. lib. 4. c. 9 sec. 11. Priests vestments, and by o Dial. 1. c. 13. Cope, and the p Annot. in Matth. 17.27. Rhemists, for Peter's primacy: and by q Dial 1. c. 14. Cope, and r Euchir. c. 19 Eckius, for the single life of Priests: This book (saith s Bellar. de gratia primi hominis cap. 3. & lib. 1. de effectu sacram. c. 10. & lib. de script. eccles ad. an. 420 & lib. 1. de missa cap. 6. Bellarmine,) is not Augustine's, nor the work of any Catholic man, (for which he showeth great reasons,) but of some Heretic, who teacheth many things against the faith, and against Augustine. So saith also Angelus Roccho, Espencaeus, The Divines of Louvain, Alfonsus de Castro, Maldonatus, Salmeron, Azorius, Leusaeus, Velosillus, Penerius, and Harding, as they are alleged by Robert Cook, in Censuraquorundam scriptorum veterum, aedit. Londini 1623. who addeth these words: Here I must in few words meet with your conscience, you Pontificians, and especially with yours o Turrian, o Harding, o Bellarmine. I demand of thee Turrian, why didst thou write. t In praesatione confess. Augustini. Be it so, that all are not Augustine's books, which have Augustine's name inscribed, yet surely most of them are of Saint Augustine's equals, and plainly all of them are the works of learned and godly men? when it is plain by this very book, the Author was an Heretic, and by the confession of your own brethren, a blasphemous and wretched man. I demand of thee Harding, with what face couldst thou allege those questions under Saint Augustine's name for the primacy of the Pope? which elsewhere thou didst confess was none of Augustine's. I demand of thee Bellarmine, with what forehead couldst thou reckon up the Author of these questions u Bellar. de Rom. Pontif lib. 1. cap. 25. among the 24 Fathers which thou comparest to the 24 Elders in the Apocalypse, while thou fightest for thy pope? since elsewhere thou hast written plainly, that neither Augustine, nor any Catholic man, but an heretic was the author of these questions. May we not truly say here, Frons Meretricis facta est vobis? you have the forehead of an whore and cannot blush! jer. 3 3 Thus said Mr. Cook out of his just indignation for this one book. And we may say the same of many more. To reckon up all that is falsely fathered upon S. Augustine alone, would fill a good volume, saith Trithemius Trithem. de script. eccles. Aug. . And the like may be said of S. chrysostom, Jerom, and other Fathers. Let this taste which I have given you, suffice, and thereby guess at the rest. If you desire to see more of S. Augustine, you may read Paulus Langius in Chronico Citizensi, anno 1259. And Erasmus epistle ad Archiepisc. Toletanum Parisijs 1531. And li. 3 de methodo concionandi. If of all the Fathers; read Mr. Perkins Problem, but especially Mr. Cooks censure aforenamed. And D. morton's apologia Catholica pars 2. l. 2. c. 1. & seq. §. 8. 2 In the books which the ancient Fathers, and other learned Authors have written, much intolerable corruption hath been used. Lodovicus Vives a Vives Comm. in August. De civ. Dei. lib. 22. cap. 8. upon one Chapter of Saint Augustine saith, In hoc capite non dubium quin multa sunt addita, velut● declarandi gratia, abijs qui omnia magnorum autorum scripta spurcis suis manibus contaminabant. It seems, in that long tract of time, when all books were in such men's hands, they were shamelessly bold to corrupt them. For Viues speaks of the generality, Omnia; and of their sauciness, to meddle with magnorum autorum scripta; and of their wickedness contaminabant; and of their beastliness spurcis suis manibus. No doubt (saith he) but many things were added to this Chapter (of Saint Augustine) by them which with their unclean hands, defiled or corrupted all the writings of great authors. This happily was then a work only of darkness, done secretly and without authority, (tares sown in the night, by wicked men among the good wheat of the Fathers.) But now, the like is done by authority, avowed and commended. For what else means this of Sixtus Sinensis in his b Praefat. in ●pus Bibli. Epistle Dedicatory to pope Pius Quintus? Tu Beatissime Pontifex expurgari fecisti omnium autorum Catholicorum & praecipuè Veterum Patrum scripta. Thou most blessed Bishop hast caused the writings of all Catholic authors, and especially of The ancient Fathers to be purged or cleansed. For now are dispersed to Printers certain books called Indices Expurgatorij, appointing both in ancient and latter books, what must be put out which the authors wrote, & what to put in which the authors wrote not; and so to print the books new again (being so altered for the best advantage of the Church of Rome) to the end, that men may not find in the new prints any thing against them (though it be in the old) and yet many things for them (which the old and true books had not) sometimes altering one word will serve the turn: See D. Morton Apologia Cath. part. 2 l. 2. c. 17● pag. 239. as in stead of Non habent Petri hareditatem, qui Petri FIDEM non habent, to print Non habent Petri haereditatem, qui Petri SEDEM non habent; the seat of Peter, put for the faith of Peter, to tie salvation to Peter's seat, (Rome) in stead of Peter's faith (Christ, confessed by Peter.) Sometimes whole sentences, or pages, are altered or left out, etc. See D. Featly Appendix to the Romish Fisher pag. 13. & seq & D. Mort. ibid. Thus have they served Gratian, with his gloss, Cajetan, Ferus, Polydore, Vives, Stapulensis, Stella, Arias Montanus, Masius, and hundreds of others their own writers. As you may see in the Index Expurgatorius committed to the Belgic Printers 1571, and brought into the open light by Junius, anno 1586. and another Index expurgatorius, printed at Madril in Spain, anno 1584. by commandment of Gasper Quiroga, Cardinal and Archbishop of Toletum, and found by the English in their voyage to Cales, and published to the world at Salmure, anno 1601. And a third Index expurgatorius, ordained by the Cardinal of Sandovall, and Roxas, printed, anno 1612. Beside others not yet so publicly known. Observed by Mr. Bedell in his letters to Mr. Wadsworth, pag. 100, 101. Among many hundreds of examples of these corruptions, I give you these even in the Fathers, for a taste. Pope Pius the fourth, called Paulus Manutius, (an elegant Printer) from Venice to Rome, to print the Fathers without spots. In his print of Saint Cyprians works, See B. Bilson. D●ffer. of subjection and rebellion, first part. pag 89 in 8. In the Epistle De unitate Eccl●siae, these words are added, [Et primatus Petro datur] and afterwards, these [Vnam cathedram constituit] and these also [& Cathedra una] And in the edition of Pamelius, another clawse is added, [Qui cathedram Petri super quam fundata est ecclesia, deserit, etc.] though the supervisors of the Canon law appointed by the Commandment of Gregory 13, acknowledge that in eight copies of Cyprian found entire in the Vatican Library, this sentence is not found. And had these passages been in old Cyprian in Waldensis time, when he wrote for Peter's chair and primacy, he would not have failed to use them being so pregnant for his purpose. In the same edition of Manutius, Bedel. ibid. See D. Field. 5. cap. 42. fol. vlt. the Epistle of Firmilianus, Bishop of Cesaria, beginning Accepimus per Rogatianum, is quite left out: (although Saint Cyprian thought it worthy his translation and publication.) and good cause why. For that Bishop tartly vilifieth the Bishop of Rome's both place & person, fare beneath that height which they now assume. Firmilianns reproveth the folly of Stephanus, that boasting so much of the place of his Bishopric, and succession of Peter, be stirred up contentions and discords in all other Churches: and bids him not deceive himself; he is become aschismaticke, by separating himself from the communion of the Ecclesiastical unity: for while he thinks he can separate all from his Communion, he hath separated himself only from all He taxeth him for calling Cyprian a false Christ, a false Apostle, and a deceitful workman; which being privy to himself, that these were his own due, preventingly he objected to another. This Epistle is omitted in the new prints. And thus grave Authors are shamefully curtalled and corrupted; when they speak against the Pope and his doctrine, their tongues are cut out; & contrarily words and sentences are foisted into their works, to make them seem to speak for him, when they never meant it. Franc. junius reports that he coming (in the year 1559.) to a familiar friend of his, Junius in praesatione ante Indicem expurgatorium Belgicum à se editum 1586 named Lewes Savarius, Corrector of a Print at Leydon, found him overlooking Saint Ambrose Works, which Frellonius was printing. Whereof when Junius commended the elegancy of the Letter and Edition, the Corrector told him secretly, it was of all Editions the worst: and drawing out many sheets of now-waste-paper, from under the Table, told him they had printed those sheets according to the ancient authentic copies: but two Franciscans had by their authority canceled and rejected them, and caused other to be printed and put in their rooms, differing from the truth of all their own books, to the great loss of the Printer, and wonder of the Corrector. Gretzer. De iure prohib. libros lib. 2. cap. 10. The jesuite Gretzerus defendeth these doings; and writing of the purging or altering of old Bertram, he saith the Index hath done him no injury, when it hath done him that favour, which is done to some of the ancients, as Tertullian and Origen. Them and some others, though very ancient, Gratian quite cut off: and the Church hath this authority (saith he) to proscribe whole books, or any parts of them, great or small, Thus Gretzerus. And indeed, of the two, it were better to proscribe or cut them off (as no witnesses) then to corrupt and make them (false witnesses) to speak what they thought not, or what is not true. But for a Particular Church, to proscribe or corrupt all the witnesses that speak against her is untollerable. See more in D. Morton. Apologia Catholica part. 2. lib. 2. c. 17 In the former point (of Counterfeits) the Children begot the Fathers: In this point (of Corruption) the Children will teach the Fathers to speak, and alter their testimonies and testaments at their pleasure. §. 9 Index Expurg. Belg. fol. 4. & per junium edit. pag. 12. 3 By devised glosses, and witty (but wrong) interpretations, they wrist the sentences of the Fathers to mean otherwise then the Fathers intended. This is confessed by the Divines of the University of Douai; speaking of bertram's book: The title, liber Bertrami presbyteri de Corp. & sang. Domini, tolerari emendatus queat. judicium Vniversitatis Duacensis Censoribus probatum. Then their judgement follows, with some reasons why they rather mend the book then forbidden it: lest the forbidding should make men more desirously seek it, and greedily read it: and condemn the Church for abrogating all antiquity that is alleged against them etc. Therefore they will use it as they do other ancient Catholic books, which they deliver in these words. Cum● in Catholicis veteribus alijs pl●●●os feramus errores, & extenuemus, excusemus, excog●●●●omento persaepe negemus, & commodum ijs seasum ●ffingamus, dum opponuntur in disputationibus, aut in confactionibus cum adversarijs: non videmus cur non candem aequitatem & diligentem recognitionem mereatur Bertramus, etc. that is, Seeing in other ancient Catholic writers, we bear with many errors and we extenuate, excuse, and oftentimes by witty expositions deny, and d●uise a commodious sense unto them, when they are opposed in disputations and conflicts with our adversaries: we see no reason why Bertram may not deserve the same equity and diligent recognition. In this passage we may observe these things. 1 They acknowledge many errors to be in ancient Writers, whom yet they account Catholics, and of their own Church or Religion. (Otherwise they must have a small, and the Protestants a large Church.) 2 That those opinions, though many (which they Call errors) make for their adversaries (the Protestants) and are against Rome's present doctrine, and so objected by the Protestants. 3 How they avoid them: even by applying their Art, Wit, and Learning (God's talents committed to them) to obscure the Truth, corrupt the witness thereof; deceive the simple, and gull the learned: making all believe that the ancient Writers are nothing at all against them, but fully for them by perverting their allegations to speak quite contrary to the Author's meaning. O wit and learning wickedly bestowed! conscience seared! poor people miserably deluded! And note further 4, the generality of this practice, judicium Vniversitatis Duacensis, Censoribus approbatum. confessed, professed by a whole University at once, and delivered for their deliberate judgement, and approved by the most learned and judicious censors, appointed to that great office by the Hierarchy of the Church of Rome: & though this practice was a long time closely carried in darkness; yet now it is defended in the open light by Gretzer the jesuite. §. 10. 4 The Roman Doctors may bring in whole Armies of witnesses on their side, when they change the question, and prove what no body denies; a Bedel. letters to Wadworth pag. 109. As when the question is whether the pope have a Monarchy over all Christians, an uncontrollable jurisdiction, an Infallible judgement, etc. b Bellar. de summo Pontifice. lib. 2. cap. 15. & 16 answered by D. Field. lib. 5. cap. 35, 36. Bellarmine allegeth a number of Fathers, Greek and Latin, to prove only that Saint Peter had a primacy of honour and authority, which is fare short of that supremacy which the pope's now claim, and which is the question. So, to prove the verity of Christ's Body and Blood in the Lord's Supper; c Bellar de Eucharistia. l●b 2. toto. Bellarmine spends the whole book in citing the Fathers of several Ages. To what purpose? when the question is not of the truth of the presence, but of the manner, whether it be to the teeth or belly (which he in a manner denies) or to the soul and faith of the Receiver. So also d Bellarm. De Purgat. lib. 1. cap 6. Bellarmine for the proof of Purgatory, allegeth a number of Fathers (as Ambrose, Hilary, Origen, Basil, Lactansius, Jerom,) but fare from the purpose of the question, and quite beside their meaning: for they spoke of the fire at the end of the world, (as e Sixtus Senens. Bibl. lib. 5. Annot. 171. Sixtus Senensis saith,) and Bellarmine cities them for the fire of Purgatory before the end. f Bellar●ib. He cities many other Fathers also to prove Purgatory, because they commended prayer for the dead, though he well knew, that proceeded from an g S●arez in 3. pa t, ●●ome qu. 59 art 6. disp. 57 §. 1. pag. 1159. error which they held, that men's souls were not judged till the last day, nor rewarded or punished but reserved in some secret receptacles unto the universal judgement. Which opinion is as contrary to Purgatory (to confirm which he allegeth them) as it is to the truth, and therefore they are guilefully alleged, beside their meaning. Antiquus. These practices of alleging counterfeit book●s, under the reverend names of ancient holy Fathers: & of corrupting the genuine writings of the Fathers: and of avoiding or perverting their true meaning by any sophistical interpretations; and of producing them in show to the purpose, but indeed, beside the purpose and the true question: and by all or any of these means, to seek the victory by obscuring the truth: are things to my heart and soul odious and abominable. Neither should I believe that ever any such thing was done by Men that profess Religion; but I should think it rather a malicious slander devised by their adversaries, if I had not seen manifest proof of all by their own books, laid open before mine eyes. But to let pass my just grief of this, for the present: I must add, that— CHAP. 3. Of the differences of the Fathers and Protestants and of their contentions. §. 1. Many Fathers are confessed (by all sides) to have held some erroneous opinions, which none are boun● 〈◊〉 receive: and yet in the substance of Religion were good Catholic Christians, and our predecessors. 2 Many differences also are noted among Romish Doctors, which yet hinder them not from being all accounted Catholics. 3 The differences among Protestants are nothing so great or many, as those afore noted of the Fathers, and the Romish, The especial one, about Christ's presence in the Sacrament, is much less than it seemeth. 4 The Pope's unwillingness to reform manifest abuses by the way of general Counsels, was the cause of all differences in Reformed Churches. 5 The Protestants contentions for God's cause (as they take it) are nothing so hot or troublesome, as the contentions of many ancient holy Fathers have been about smaller matters. §. 1. Antiquus. YEt I cannot think, but in the undoubted and uncorrupted writings of the Fathers, you find many things differing from the Doctrine of Protestants. It cannot be otherwise, for the Protestants differ among themselves, the English from the Germane, the Germane from the French, one Nation from another, and in every Nation one company from another. It is possible the Fathers may disagree from them all; but to agree with them all, that agree not among themselves, it is impossible. Besides, the Protestants disagreements are so great, with such bitter contentions, and virulent writing one against another, that they show themselves not to be of the Church of God, which is a City at unity in itself; and consists of men more mortified in their affections. I tell you truly, these disagreements and contentions do mightily alienate men's affections from your Religion. Antiquissimus. Your objection hath three parts, 1 Differences of the Fathers from us; 2 Differences among ourselves; 3 The hot contentions of Protestants for these differences. Let me answer them in order. First, I do ingenuously confess that the Fathers do in many things differ from us: and no whit less from you. Though they were very Reverend learned & holy men, yet still they were men, and had their errors and imperfections. Your own men first discovered them (as Cham did his Father's nakedness and told his brethren, Gen. 9) and we cannot hide them (though we gladly would, and with Sem and Japhet, turn our backs on them) neither is it now expedient, when you so much vilify the Scriptures, and magnify the Fathers beyond their right: and seek to draw the trial of the truth of Religion, rather than the Rivulets of Fathers and Histories, then from the Fountain of the Scriptures. We must therefore tell you more necessarily than willingly, what your own men have said, of the Father's slips and errors, wherein not only we, but themselves are constrained for the truth's sake to forsake them. And yet both we and they account the same Fathers our predecessors for the other necessary points of saving faith, which they sound held, neither do we any way doubt but that they are blessed Saints in Heaven. Baron. an. 118. n. 2. Senous. Bibl. lib. 5. amos. 233. 1 Your Cardinal Baronius, and Sixtus Senensis, reckon up many Fathers that held the Millenary error, to wit, Papias the scholar of john the Apostle & Evangelist, Apollinarius, Irenaeus, Tertullianus, Victorinus, Lactantius, Severus, Sulpitius, Justin Martyr, & many other Catholic Fathers, being deceived by Papias, Bish. of Hierapolis (a man much reverenced for opinion of his Holiness and learning, Baron. ib. n. 5. etc. & n. 2. citing Eusebius. but yet homo ingenij pertenuis, saith Eusebius) who taught it as a tradition received from the Apostles, and grounded upon Revel. 20. v. 4, 5. The matter was this, That there should be two Resurrections, the first of the godly, to live with Christ a thousand years on earth, in all worldly happiness, before the wicked should awake out of the sleep of death: and after that thousand years, the second Resurrection of the wicked, should be to eternal death, and the godly should ascend to eternal life. Baron. an. 373. n. 14. This error continued almost two hundred years after it began, before it was condemned for an heresy: and was held by so many Churchmen of great account, and Martyrs, that Saint Augustine and jerom did very modestly descent, saith Senensis, ib. Concil. Carthag. in Cypriani operib. 2 Saint Cyprian held, that such as were baptised by heretics, should be rebaptised, and so determined with a whole Council of African Bishops. Contrary to the African Bishops in the time of Aurelius, and contrary to Cornelius, Bishop of Rome, and the rest of the Italian Bishops. And yet was Cyprian always counted a Saint, a true member of the Church, & an holy Martyr. Bellar. de confir. lib. 2. cap. 7. §. respond. ad. 1. Aug. cont. 2. ep. Pelag. lib. 4. c. 8. Aug. de Bapt. contra Donatum. lib. 1. & l. 2. Saint Augustine wrote strongly against his error, but reverently of his person, calling him Beatissimum, & corona Martyrij gloriosissimum. 3 But was Saint Augustine free from all error himself? No, for he held opinion that Infants dying unbaptized, were damned to the eternal torments of hell fire; Which none (either Protestants or Papists) do hold at this day. Also he held that the holy Eucharist ought of necessity to be administered to Infants. Aug. epist. 106. & 28. Maldonat. in joan. 6. ver. 53. pag 719. Usher Answ. to Irish jesuite pag. 23. & D. Field lib. 3. cap. 9 who showeth that Cyprian and Tert. were of Aug. opinion Bellar. de Christo lib. 2. cap. 3. Maldonate saith also, this was the opinion of pope Innocent the first, and that it was the use of the ancient Church, and that it prevailed in the Church about 600 years. Bishop Usher showeth that the Christians in Egypt, and Aethiopia, hold that use still. The Church of Rome now doing otherwise, yet will not yield that she hath forsaken the Religion of Saint Augustine, Pope Innocent, or the ancient Church, but glorieth that she is of the same Church with them. 4 Eusebius Casariensis favoured the Arrians: and Eusebius Nicomediensis was an Arrian heretic, saith Bellarmine. 5 Tertullian held some errors of the Montanists, Bellar. de Rom. Pont. lib. 4. cap. 8 § Sexto, Respondeo. Bellar. de Christo lib. 2. cap. 23. §. Sed objicies. Bellar. de verbo dei non scripto lib. 4. cap. 12. § arg. tert. we grant: but Bellarmine saith plainly, he was a Montanist, and so reported Pope Zepherinus to be. 6 Damascen did plainly deny the Holy Ghost to proceed from the Son, saith Bellarmine. 7 Bellarmine also saith, that Irenaeus taught (by tradition) that Christ suffered about the fiftieth year of his age: and contrarily Tertullian and Clemens Alexandrinus taught that Christ suffered in his thirtieth year: both which doctrines by traditions are false, saith Bellar. ib. 8 Many Fathers held that the souls of the Just enjoy not the vision of God in heaven, neither are blessed, Sixtus Senens. Bibl lib. 6. annot. 345. D. Field. church. lib. 3. cap. 17. & lib. 5. Append. 1. p. 54. but only in hope: and kept in some secret receptacles, until the general Resurrection. Sixtus Senensis reckons many of them, and cities their words: namely, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Clemens Alexandrinus, See D. Whites Defence. pag. 57 in fine & D. Morton. Appeal. lib. 1. cap. 2. sect. 15. Bellar. de Sanctor. beat. lib. 1. cap. 4. & 5. Lactantius, Victorinus Martyr, Pope John 22. Ambros. Irenaeus, Theophylact, Bernard. Bartholomeus Medina, addeth many more, to wit, Saint james his Liturgy, Origen, Prudentius, chrysostom, Augustine, Theodoret, Are●as, Oecumenius. Bellarmine laboureth to clear some of these, whom his fellows condemn. upon this error, we find in some of the Fathers, prayers for the faithful departed, as for them that were not yet judged, nor in heaven: which all Papists grant to be an error, and yet allege the prayers grounded thereon to confirm their purgatory out of which they say souls may be fetched, and sent to heaven long before the general judgement, contrary to these Father's tenets. Bellar. de Sanctor. beat. lib. 1. cap. 6. §. Sunt tamen. & Sanctus A●ton. 9 Many Fathers also thought, The very Devils should not be tormented with the pains of Hell, before the judgement day. Bellarmine reckons these, justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Oecumenius, Epiphanius, Antonius apud Athanasium, Ambrose, jerom, Chrysostom, Augustine, Gregory Theodoret, Bernard, and some of them he excuseth favourably: but of justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Oecumenius, and Epiphanius, he saith, Non video quo pacto corum sententiam ab errore possimus defendere; I know not how to excuse their opinion from error. Bellar. de Baptis. lib. 1. cap. 3. § Praeter hos errores. jerom. contra Vigilantium. Greg. dialog. 4. cap. 33. Aug. de cura pro mortuis. Hugo de sacram. fidei lib. 2. part. 16. cap. 11. See D. Field. church. lib. 3. cap. 9 Gloss. in Esay ●3. 1 Aug. de civ. dei. lib. 21. cap. 18. & 24. 2 Jb. cap. 1●. & 25. 3 Ib. cap. 20. & 25. 10 Bellarmine also saith, that many Catholics held a wrong opinion that it is sufficient to baptise in the name of one of the three persons, contrary to the custom of the Church. Yet of this error he reckons Saint Ambrose, Beda, Bernard, Hugo de Sancto victore, Magister Sententiarum, and Pope Nicholas. 11 Saint Jerom and Saint Gregory (beside many others) do confidently affirm, that Saints departed are present in all places, know all things, and work wonderfully where their memories are solemnised. All which is modestly doubted of and denied by Saint Augustine, Hugo de sancto victore, the author of the gloss, and others, and not so held by the Papists at this day. 12 Origen held, that all the wicked, even the Devils also, should finally be saved. 1 Others held, that not the Devils, but yet all men should finally be saved: 2 Others, that only Christians, whether Heretics or Catholics. 3 Others, that only Catholics. All which Saint Augustine refutes, lib. 21. de civitate Dei, and in his Enchiridion ad Laurentium cap. 67. Bellar. de Purg. lib. 2. cap. 1. D. Field. lib. 3. cap. 9 and saith they are deceived, as men led by a humane kind of pity towards sinners. 13 Many Fathers, seeing the Manichees and Stoical Christians teach a fatal necessity of men's actions, which takes away man's guilt of sin: in their heat of opposition gave too much to freewill, and taught that a man before he was drawn to grace by grace, Maldon in joan. 6.44. pag. 701. Perer. in Rom. 9 nu. 33. pa. 1001. might merit grace. Four great learned jesuites, Senensis, Tolet, Maldonate, and Pererius, find this error (and reprove it) in chrysostom, Cyril, Theophilact, Euthymius, Ammonius, Photius, Ambrose, Theodoret, Oecumenius, and Hieronymus. Maldonate and Pererius say plainly. See D. Morton. Appeal. lib. 2. cap. 10. sect. 1, 2. §. 4. & sect. 3. §. 7. lit. n. These Father's opinion is affinis Pelagianorum errori, ne'er of kin to the Pelagian error, and contrary to the Apostles doctrine. Yet many Roman Doctors in this point, object these Fathers against us. But we may well interpret their heat by more cool places of their own writings, wherein they speak more sound of the point: and we oppose many other learned Fathers that are fully Protestant's in the point, as Gregory Nyssen, Anselme, Bernard, Gregory, Cyprian, Fulgentius, and Saint Augustine, Erasmus epist. dedic. ante libros Hilarij cit●a Mortono ib. who is counted the mouth of the Fathers to deliver the judgement of the Church, who stood so much for grace, that the Schoolmen say, he yielded too little to freewill. Moderate Master Hooker saith well; Hooker discourse. of justification § 26. The heresy of freewill was a millstone about the Pelagians neck: shall we therefore give sentence of death inevitable against all these Fathers in the Greek Church, which being mispersuaded, died in the error of freewill? He addeth in the Margin: Error convicted and afterwards maintained, is more than error. For though the opinion be still the same, yet the men are not the same, after that the truth is plainly taught them. This cleareth these Fathers from heresy, but not from error. Out of these premises you may conclude these Consequents. 1 It is unjust for the Romish Doctors to bind us to the Father's opinions, when themselves refuse them. 2 It is not reasonable to make the Father's tenets rules of our Doctrine, when it is confessed on all hands, that the Fathers have in many things erred. Bellar. lib. 3. de verbo Dei. cap. 19 §. dices quid ergo. Bellarmine saith, who can deny that many of the ancient Fathers had the gift of interpreting in great excellency? and that they were spirival? and yet it is manifest that some of the chiefest of them have slipped in some things non leviter, not lightly. Rossensis in responsione ad prooemium Lutheri. veritate septima in fine fol. 10. & 11. Bishop Fisher answering Luther's objection, That the ancient Fathers have sometimes erred, saith, This do not I deny; they have erred sometimes, and they were suffered to err, that we might know they were but men. 3 It is not only unjust, and unreasonable, but impossible, to make us in all things agree with the Fathers, who do not in all things agree among themselves When Saint Austen confutes Cyprian for rebaptisation: Irenaeus and Tertul●ian differ in the time of Christ's suffering: some Fathers against freewill before grace, some for it, &c, How is it possible to agree with them all? Aug. lib. 2. contra Crescomium gram. cap. 30. Ego Cypriani autoritate non teneor sed ejus dictum ex Scripturae autoritate considero, quodque cum ea congruit, cum ejus la●de recipto; qd non, cum cius pace respuo. 4 Therefore there is a necessity, to try the Father's doubtful tenets by some superior and undoubted rule: and that rule (the Father's selves say) is the holy Scripture, inspired by God, and therefore infallible: examine all doctrines by that rule, hold what agrees to that, and refuse that which disagrees. Thus did Saint Augustine by Cyprians writings. I am not bound with the authority of Cyprian (saith he) but I weigh his sayings by the authority of the Scriptures, and what agrees to them, with his due praise I receive; what agrees not, with his good leave I refuse. And thus would Augustine have men do with his writings. Aug. de trinitate. lib. 3 cap. 1. Sane cum in omnibus literis meis, non solum pium lectorem, sed etiam liberum correctorem desiderem, multo maxim in his, etc.— sicut lectorem meum nolo mihi esse deditum, ita correctorem nolo sibi: Jlle me non amet amplius quam catholicam fidem, iste se non amet amplius quam catholicam ve●tatem. Sicut illi dico, Noli meis literis quasi scripturis canonicis inservire, sed in illis & quod no cred●bas cum inveneris incunctanter crede. in istis autem ad certum non habebas nisi certum intellexeris, noli firmiter retinere: Ita illi dico, Noli meas literas ex tua opinione vel contentione, sed ex divina lectione vel inconcussa ratione corrigere. In all my writings (saith he) I desire not only a pious Reader but a free Corrector: as a Reader not wholly yielding to me, so a Corrector not yielding to his own affections: not loving me more than the Catholic faith, nor loving himself more than the Catholic truth. As I say to him, Be not subject to my writings as to the Canonical Scriptures. But in those when thou findest what thou believest not, believe without delay: in those what thou thoughtest not certain except thou understand to be certain, do not firmly hold: so I say to him correct not my writings by thine own opinion or contention, but by the holy Scripture and sound reason. §. 2. Antiquus. You have said enough to clear you for differing from the Fathers in some things: now clear your Protestants (if you can) of the great scandal of differences among themselves. Antiquissimus. This was your late second objection, which you may partly answer by that which we have said of the Fathers: for if the different opinions of the Fathers in some points hindered not their union in substance of the saith, and their being members of all the same Church: why should the like or lesser differences now among the Protestants, hinder their union in substance of the same faith, and their being members all of the same Church, both among themselves and with the Fathers? You see differences among the Fathers that touched not the foundation, life, and soul of Christianity, broke not their unity; still they were all of one Church, and of one faith in the most necessary substance thereof. In which respect also we truly say they were our Predecessors, and of the same Church whereof we are, notwithstanding our differences and theirs in other lesser points: your new-Catholikes also challenge them to be theirs, notwithstanding many differences betwixt them. But of this point, more fully hereafter. For the present, I will show you a number of great, and many of them (for aught I see) endless differences, among your own Doctors, and yet you account them all Catholics and of one Religion. Archb. Abbot. against D. Hill. reason. 3. §. 11. 1 In Peter Lombard, a prince of the Schoolmen, called by that honourable name of Master of the Sentences, for searching and judiciously delivering the Sentences and doctrine of the Fathers, so fare as he could see in them: In him (I say) the Divines of Paris have noted 26 errors, in quibus Magister non tenetur, wherein the scholars of Rome must not hold with him. These errors are added to his four books of sentences, to warn the travellers through his books, of his rocks and sands. 2 Those four books of Sentences, alone may show the great and numberless variety of opinions, which he reciteth in most points of doctrine, and yet all the Authors of them Catholics. The like may be said of Thomas Aquinas his sums. See D. Hall. The Peace of Rome. 3 The latter books of Controversies, written by the jesuites Bellarmine, Gregory de Valentia, Azorius, Suarez, and other their large writers, do as ordinarily confute men of their own side, as they confute Protestant's. Yea oftentimes I find in Suarez, five columns against their own Doctors, for one against ours. Yet these confuted Doctors are still Catholics with them. Archb. Abbot. ibid. 4 The whole Nation of the Dominican Friars following the Thomists, do hold that the Virgin Mary was conceived in original sin: the whole Nation of the Franciscans hold the contrary, Concil. Basil. session. 36. following the Scotists. The Council of Basil ratified the Franciscans doctrine for the unspottedness of the Blessed Virgin. The Dominicans, excepted against that Council, as not lawfully called. The contention continued and grew so great, that Pope Sixtus was fain to interpose his authority, commanding by a solemn decree, that the matter should never be disputed afterward. Hist. of the Council of Trent. Notwithstanding, in the Council of Trent, either of the sides contended with great earnestness to have it determined on their side. But to avoid the endless offence of both sides, the Cardinal de Monte, Precedent of the Council, told them, The Council was called to end Controversies with Heretics, not to meddle with Controversies of Catholics. And so it continued undecided. Lately Cardinal Bellarmine hath written much hereof, on the Dominicans side: but yet without resolution. And so they stand irreconciliably contentious. 5 Cardinal Caietan, a deep learned Divine, Arch. Abbot. ib. and much employed by the pope against Luther, wrote many books of several matters: Sixt. Senensis Bibliotheca sancta libro 4. & 6. against which Ambrose Catharinus, Archbishop of Compsa, wrote six sharp books of Annotations and Inuectives, as Sixtus Senensis records, and reckons up the particular points, leaving to every man his free judgement thereof. 6 In the great piont of justification Cardinal Contarene agrees with the Protestants, in his book printed anno 1541. some few years before the Council of Trent. 7 Albertus Pighius, also taught the Protestants doctrine of justification in a book published, anno 1549. which he dedicated to Paulus, than pope, complaining of the Schoole-divines who had much obscured the doctrine of justification and who (he feared) would contemn his judgement. 8 The learned Divines of Colen also taught the Protestants doctrine of justification by faith in Christ's merits; and wrote against the merit of our works, in their Antididagma, and Enchiridion, Antididagma. pag. 30. as Bellarmine confesseth. And yet both Pighius and the Doctors of Colen are excused by Bellarmine, Bellar. de justif. lib. 2. cap. 1. § in candem sent. & § Deinde quod est discrimen. they were no heretics, though they erred, because they kept community with the Church of Rome, and submitted their writings to the censure thereof. 9 Their great Doctor Durandus, had many errors, which Bellarmine meets withal, and confutes in many Controversies. And concerning the Eucharist, he held that the matter of the bread remained still after the Consecration, and that there was only a transformation, Bellar. de Fucharistia libro 3. cap. 13. initio. but not a transubstantiation of the matter, Whereof Bellarmine saith, Sententia Durandi haeretica est, licet ipse non sit dicendus haereticus, cum paratus fuerit Ecclesiae iudicio acquiescere. The opinion of Durand is heretical, though he is not to be called an heretic, seeing he is ready to rest upon the Church's judgement. Sentent. lib. 4. distinct 11. litera a. 10 Peter Lombard, Bishop of Paris, Master of the Sentences, found such variety of opinions concerning the elements in the Sacrament, that he knew not what to determine. Some held that the substance of the bread remained, some that it vanished, or was resolved into his first matter, some that it was turned into Christ's body. But for his own part, what kind of conversion it should be, whether formal or substantial, or of some other kind, he saith, Definire non sufficio, I am not able to define. Ibidem. dist. 13. b. in sine. 11 Lombard also saith, that bruit Beasts that ear the consecrated host, do not eat the body of Christ. What do they eat then? He answereth, Deus novit hoc, God knows that. Aquinas Summa 3. part. qu. 80 ut 3. ad tertium. But Tho. Aquinas teacheth the contrary that Christ's body is still under the species, as long as the species remain, though a Mouse or Dog should eat them. For it is no dignity (saith he) to Christ's body to be eaten by Beasts, when they touch not the body in its proper species, but only according to the Sacramental species. Lombard. ibid. d●st. 11 lit. 12 Lombard also saith, that the Eucharist is to be received in both kinds. And Gerardus Lorichius, a great Papist, protesteth that they are false Catholics, Lerich. de missa publica proroganda. hinderers of the Reformation of the Church, and blasphemers, who deny the people the Cup in the Eucharist. 13 Bellarmine himself a great learned jesuite and Cardinal, late Reader of Controversies at Rome, Bellar de Euchar. lib. 3. cap. 18. §. Ex his colgimus, etc. teacheth that the substance of the bread in the Sacrament, is not turned into the substance of Christ's body productiuè, (as one thing is made of another) but that the bread goes away, and Christ's body comes into the room of it, adductiuè (as one thing succeeds into the place of another, the first be voided) and this (saith he) is the opinion of the Church of Rome. But Suarez, another learned jesuite, Suarez. tomo 3. in Thom. disp. 50 sect. 4. §. tertio principaliter. pag. 639. (who hath written many great volumes, and is Reader of Controversies at Salamanca, in Spain) confutes Bellarmine's opinion, terming it Translocatio, not Transubstantiatio; and saith it is not of the Church's opinion. Thus these great Master-builders are confounded in their language: and thus hard it is to know what the Church of Rome holdeth. Her own dearest and learnedest sons know not. Either Doctor Bellarmine, or Doctor Suarez mistook it, and doubtless either of them have multitudes of followers, and all on both sides Catholics. Yea I hope, both Suarez and Bellarmine, Durand and Lombard, the Dominicans and Franciscans, Cajetan, Catharine, Contarene, Pighius, and the Colen Doctors shall still be counted good Catholics, and all of one Church notwithstanding their differences. 14 Beside these, See before, lib. 1. cap. 4. sect. 12, 13, ●4. you may remember a number of learned Catholics (with their numberless followers) which I reckoned before, which differed from you in some points, and wrote against your doctrine and practices: as Saint Bernard, joannes Salisburiensis, Cardinalis Camericensis, Cardinalis Cusanus. Robert Grosthead, B. of Lincoln, Ockam, Cesenas, Clemangis, Gerson, Valla, Bradwardin, Ariminiensis, Contarene, Bonaventure, Scotus, Clethoveus, Rhendius, etc. Doctor Field reckons above 20 Fathers, and later Doctors, See above lib. 1. cap. 4. sect. 14. B. Usher Answer to the Irish jesuite, pag. 500 & seq. that accounted those books only Canonical, which we so reckon, and the rest Apocryphal. Bishop Usher, reckons up, against your doctrine of Merit, above 50 authors new and old, whereof some are manifold, as Liber Caroli Magni, composed by a great number of Divines: Instructions of the sick, approved by all the Divines of the Kingdom. The Canons and University of Colen. The Chancellor and Divines of Paris. And both they, and all the rest, had infinite followers of their opinion. All which (to let pass * See D. Field. Appendix 1. part. pag. 100 & seq. and Appendix of 27 Articles, to the seventh chapter of the third book, printed at the end of the fourth. multitudes of others) you still count Catholics, and of your Church, though they taught many things against you. And therefore, out of your own judgement we may conclude, that some few differences in some points, betwixt Protestants, do not hinder them from being all of one Church and Religion. §. 3. Antiquus. Yes, for your differences are great and many, ours small and few. Antiquissimus. When you look through false spectacles, things may be seen greater or smaller than they are: take heed you look not on our differences through the spectacles of malice, which makes every small thing great and ugly: and on your own differences, through the spectacles of self-love, which makes them seem small and tolerable. One special point, of the manner of Christ's being, and being received in the Sacrament: Archb. Abbot. ag. Hill. Reason 5 §. 26. makes the main difference betwixt the Lutherans in Denmark, and some places of Germany, and the other reformed Churches. Anthony, sometime King of Navarre, said to the Ambassador of Denmark, Comment. Relig. & Reip. in Gal. lib. exhorting the reformed French to be of Luther's doctrine; There be forty points wherein Luther and Calvin do differ from the pope, and in 39 of them they agree between themselves, and in that single one they descent. Their followers therefore should do well to join in the greater number against the pope, till they have ruinated him; and when his heart is broken, they should fall to compound that last single difference. God in his good time grant it. Now in that one special point, Zanchius de dissidio Cana Dom. judicium, tomo septimo, in fine Miscelaneorum. D. Field. Church. lib. 5. Appendix part. 1. pag. 114. the difference is nothing so great, as you would have it thought. For (as the most learned and judicious Zanchius observeth, and our Doctor Field out of him.) In all necessary points, both the parties agree, and descent in one unnecessary, which by right understanding one another, might easily be compounded. First, both parties agree in the necessity of the receivers due preparing themselves, with knowledge of their sins, repentance of them, faith in Christ for pardon of them, and resolution to live according to Gods Law. Secondly, both sides agree in the acknowledgement of the excellent use of the Sacrament for a perpetual memorial of the death and passion of Christ for our salvation, and that with him we should dye to sin and be raised again to newness of life; be made one with him; and nourished by him in a spiritual life here, to eternal life hereafter. Thirdly, both sides agree, that the very body and blood of Christ are to be received in that Sacrament, that thereby we may be partakers of the life of Grace, and also be strengthened, confirmed, and continued therein. Fourthly, both sides agree, that the elements of bread and wine, presenting to our consideration and faith, the spiritual nourishing force that is in the body and blood of Christ, are not abolished in their substance: but only changed in their use; which is, not only to signify, but also to exhibit and communicate unto us, the very body and blood of Christ, with all the gracious working and fruits thereof. Fiftly, both sides agree, that the meaning of Christ's words, [This is my Body, This is my Blood,] when he gave them the Bread and Wine, was this: This, which outwardly and v●sibly I give you, is in substance, Bread and Wine, and in mystery, or exhibitive signification, my Body and Blood: but this, which (together with them) I give you invisibly, is my very Bo●y that is to be crucified, and my very Blood which is to be shed for the remission of your sins. Sixtly, both parties agree, and profess they firmly believe, that the very Body and Blood of Christ (which the Sacraments do not only signify, but exhib t, and whereof the faithful are partakers) are truly present in the Sacrament, and by the faithful truly and really received. Thus fare all parties agree, that is, in the whole necessary and sufficient substance of the doctrine of this Sacrament: for the other matter wherein they differ, De modo, of the manner how Christ is present in the Sacrament, seeing it is not expressed in the Scriptures, In the judgement of Zanchius, it might be well omitted: themselves confess, when they have gone as fare as they can to determine it, still it is ineffable, and not possible to be fully understood. It is enough for us to believe the Body and Blood are there, though how and in what manner we cannot define. §. 4. Antiquus. Whether it be of so little importance or no, I dispute not: but I am sure the Controversy still remains, and is hotly pursued; and yet this is not the only difference betwixt your Protestants, there are many other. Antiquissimus. The more greatly to blame is your pope and Romish Hierarchy, that when many grievous corruptions of your Church both in Doctrine and government were manifestly laid open, See D. Field. Appendix to the fift book of the Church part. 1. pag. 71. Gerson 3. part. Apologet. de concilio Constantion. Id●m de concilio unius obedientiae. would not for all the importunity of Princes, Prelates & people, yield to any wholesome reformation, but with obstinate resistance hindered all public proceeding in Reformation by the course of a general Council: so that several States and Kingdoms were fain to redress things amiss severally within their own compass, without sufficient Intelligence and consultation one with another: which could not be done without some differences, and it is l●ttle less than miraculous that the differences were not many more and greater. Cassander saith when many were moved out of a godly affection sharply to reprove certain manifest abuses, Cassander consultation, art. 7. they were repelled and disdainfully contemned by them who were puffed up with the swelling conceits of their Ecclesiastical power, which caused the great distraction or rent of the Church: and no firm peace is to be hoped for, unless the beginning thereof be from them that gave the cause of this division; that is, unless they that have the government of the Church remit something of their too great rigour, and listening to the desires of many godly ones, correct manifest abuses, according to the rule of sacred Scripture and the ancient Church, from which they are departed, etc. Thus writes your Cassander, though a papist, yet moderate and truly judicious. Contarenus in confutatione Articulorum Lutheri. Also your Cardinal Contarenus, writing of the grievances and complaints of the Lutherans, for the manifold abuses brought into the Church; makes a prayer to God, that he would move the hearts of the Prelates of the Church, at the last to put away most pernicious self-love, and be persuaded to correct things manifestly amiss, and to reform themselves. There needs no Counsel, tho●e need no syllogisms, there need no alleging of places of Scripture for the quiering of these stirs of the Lutherans: but there is need of good minds, of love towards God and our neighbour, and of humility, etc. Thus writes Contarenus. I might cite your Thu anus, and many others, that lay the fault of the divisions, rents, and differences in the Church, upon your Pope and Prelates. Bad Statists, and worse Christians. But I pray you, what other differences of moment do ye find among the Protestants: Antiquus. When the Divines of the Reformed in France were called to the Mompelgart colloquy in the year 1586: they looked for no more differences then of our Lord's Supper, which you spoke of; but they found more, of the Person of Christ, of Predestination, of Baptism, of Images in Churches. Antiquissmus. They found those five indeed. And it was a wonderful providence of God, that so many several Countries, Kingdoms, and States, abandoning the abuses of the Church or rather Court of Rome, and making particular Reformations in their own dominions, without general meetings and consents, should have no more, nor greater differences than these. And of these, the first two (of Christ's presence in the Sacrament, and of the communication of properties of the divinity and humanity in the person of Christ) are in a manner all one, and reconciled both alike: Concerning the two next, the differences among the Fathers, (who notwithstanding still continued members of the same true Catholic Church) may well excuse the differences among the Protestants. And for the fifth difference, concerning Images; it proved no difference at all. Both sides therein fully agreed. But these are not the Tithe of the differences amongst your men: and in these five which you reckon, many of your own men differ one from another, and yet with you are good Catholics. Antiquus. Happily I might insist upon many other differences among you, if I carried a mind rather to number then to weigh them. But I will name only one more: the great and scandalous dissension among you about the government of your Church betwixt the Bishops and Formalists on the one side, and the Puritans or Separatists on the other side. Antiquissimus. Both these sides agree in all necessary saving points of doctrine. But in this very point of government, D. Field. Appen. first part. pag. 120. first pull out the beam out of your own eyes, before you stare upon our motes. Some of your Doctors hold that the Pope is above General Counsels: some that he is not. Some hold that the pope hath the universality of all Ecclesiastical jurisdiction in himself. Others hold the pope to be only the Prince Bishop in order and honour before other, which are equal in commission with him: and at the most but as the Duke of Venice among the Senators of that State. Some hold that the pope may err judicially, Others that the pope cannot err judicially. Some hold the pope to be temporal Lord of all the world. Others hold that he is not so. Some hold, that though the pope be not temporal Lord of the world, yet in ordine ad spiritualia, he may dispose of the Kingdom of the world. Others hold that the pope may not meddle with Prince's States in any wise. §. 5. Antiquus. The differences among Protestants you say are not great, but I am sure their dissensions are great, bitter, scandalous and odious, while they writ most virulent invectives one against another, & damn one another most grievously for their different doctrine, without show of any touch of Christian mortification or moderation. Antiquissimus. Those that do so are much to blame. It is fare from me to defend them. Yet you know sometimes very holy and well mortified men, may happen into strange contentions even for small matters. Saint Paul and Barnabas, appointed by the Holy Ghost to join for the work of the ministry in planting Churches among the Gentiles (Acts 13.2) which they did very laboriously, cheerfully, & with good success, and though they suffered persecution in doing it, yet were comfortably delivered, and always found God (who had sent them) present to protect and bless them: and afterwards they were sent by the Church to jerusalem to the Apostles and elders, Acts 15.1, 2. about questions that troubled the Church: and by the whole Council of Apostles, they were sent again jointly to the Churches of Antioch, Syria and Cilicia and other Nations, to give them notice of the decrees of the Council, to direct and confirm the brethren: now having delivered their message and done their business imposed, at Antioch, and were so to go forward to Syria and Cilicia; They fell to contention: and for a matter of no great moment, to wit, Barnabas would have john to go with them, and Paul refused him: the contention grew so sharp, that they parted company, and went several ways. See how flesh and blood boiled in these good men's hearts! Even in those men's hearts, whom God had made special choice of, and joined them together for his most especial and extraordinary works: upon whom the Church of God after fasting and prayer had laid their hands, and separated them to go jointly together about that holy business; who had power to do many miracles and extraordinary works: Acts 15. who made report of the wonderful success which God gave them in converting the Gentiles, to the great admiration and consolation of the Apostles: whom the Apostles sent again with their decrees to the Churches: even these holy men, fell out for a light cause and parted company. Haply some man might say, Are these to be accounted truly mortified and holy men, who were carried away with such a humour of pride and s●lfe will, that neither of them would yield to other? are these guided by the spirit of God? the spirit of peace, love, concord, humility? are these fit to teach others, that cannot overrule their own passions? or have they no part of the spirit of God, but are men overborne with haughtiness wilfulness, stubborness? unfit for men of this profession, able to make men utterly distaste and abhor whatsoever they preach? Thus would some men gather out of this action: But Saint Paul (a chosen vessel, yet still an earthen vessel, who knew well he had his cracks and his flaws, himself gathereth another thing: (2 cor. 4.6. 2 Cor. 4.6. ) God, who hath commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of jesus christ: But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. Secondly, At the first Council of Nice, many Churchmen offered up to the Emperor Constantine Bills of Complaint one against another, Zozomen. hist. lib. 1. cap. 16. which the Emperor took very ill, and said this was worse than all the evils that the Church of God had endured, that it should be rend with contentions and contrary opinions of her own children (for the contrary opinions among the learned at that time, and their dissensions (saith the Story) were so scandalous, that many were thereby alienated from embracing Christian Religion) But Constantine, appointing a day to receive all their Books of complaints, when it came he exhorted them to unity and concord, and to join hands for the holy work of their calling, and in one great fire he burned all their Books of accusations. Matth. 11.29. 1 Pet. 2.21, etc. Thirdly, Meekness and mildness is an excellent virtue in all Christians, and especially in the Ministers of God, Leaders of others: our Saviour Christ calls us to learn it of himself, as his peculiar virtue. But yet when the cause is Gods, and not our own, we may learn also even of him, a holy zeal and earnestness: he pronounced many woes against the Scribes and Pharises, Read Matth. 23. ver. 13. to the end. for dishonouring God, corrupting his Religion, misleading the people, and abusing them: he called them hypocrites, damned creatures, children of hell, fools and blind guides, painted sepulchres, full of hypocrisy and iniquity, serpents and generations of vipers. joh. 8 44. And elsewhere saith to the pharisees and other Jews, ye are of your Father the Devil, and the lusts of your Father ye will do etc. Acts 8.20, 23. So Saint Peter to Simon Magus, Thy money perish with thee, Thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of Iniquity: Act. 13.10. and Saint Paul to Elimas' (who went about to turn Sergius Paulus the Deputy from the faith) O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the Devil, thou enemy of all righteousness etc. Zeal of God's glory is not only excusable, but commendable, even when it is mixed with Error which is condemnable: Phil. 3.4, 6. for so Saint Paul reckons it among the things wherein he might glory, Concerning Zeal I persecuted the Church. Bellar. De Rom. pont. lib 4. cap. 7. §. & per hoc respondetur. Fourthly, Bellarmine somewhat excuseth Cyprian, though (sa th' he) he seemeth to have sinned mortally in crossing and vexing the pope, being in the right, himself being in the wrong. At least he should not have written such reviling and reproachful words against the pope (Steven,) as he did in th●t Epistle to Pompey, calling the pope superbum, imperitum, caecae ac pravae mentis, etc. Proud, unskilful, of a blind and corrupt mind. Yet (saith Bellarmine also,) It seems Cyprian sinned not mortally, because he sinned only of Ignorance, thinking the pope (perniciosè errare) to err, dangerously: and while he so thought, he was bound (in conscience) not to obey him, because he ought not to do against his conscience Thus saith Bellarmine. Fiftly the question of Rebaptising such as were baptised by Heretics, See D. White Way digress 21. Eu ch. hist. lib. 7. cap. 2. & seq. bred many broils in the Church betwixt Saint Cyprian with the Council of 80 Bishops of Africa, and also the Metropolitans, Dionysius, and Firmilianus, with most of the Bishops of Egypt, Cappadocia, Galatia, and Cilicia, on the one part: and the Bishop of Rome with the Western Bishops, on the other part: There was scarce any Church or Catholic Bishop therein which was not entangled in this discord. And many bitter speeches and contumelious actions and writings passed between them. Sixtly, Eus●b. hist. lib. 5. cap. 21. the strife betwixt the East and West Churches about the day of the celebration of Easter, proceeded so fare as to excommunications. The Eastern Churches kept Faster day the 14 day of the first Moon in March after the vernal Equinoctial, though it happened on the week day, by tradition from Saint John and Saint Philip, Ibib. cap. 22. and many other holy men and Martyrs, living and dying in Asia, as Bishop Polycrates writeth. But in diverse Synods held, 1 in Palestina, under B. Theophilu● of Caesarea, and Bish. Narcissus of Jerusalem: 2 In Rome vn●er pope Victor: 3 in Pontus under Palmas: 4 in France under Irenaeus: 5 In Greece and other places It was ordered that Easter should be kept (not on the week day but) on the Sunday after the 14 day. And Victor, Bishop of Rome, Ibid. cap. 21. Jbid. cap. 23. proceeded in sin● to pronounce all the Reueren● Eastern Bishops that kept it otherwise, excommunicated: and inveighed sore against them by letters. But not only they, but the Western Bishops also, disliked Victors doing therein: yea, dissuaded, and sharply reproue● him Especially Jrenaeus with his brethren of France, alleging that for such like differences as this. For example, for the keeping of Lent Fast some only one day, See the Epistle of Irenaeus in Euseb. History, ib. some two, some more, some forty days before Easter and that by custom of long time before that Age, in such difference of fasting they kept the unity of faith, and peace one with another; and never proceeded to hate or excommunicate one another for such petty differences. D. Field. Appendix 1. part. pag. 116. Zozemen. lib 8. cap. 15. Socrat. lib. 6. cap. 13. Seventhly, Grievous were the differences and contentions betwixt Saint chrysostom and Epiphan●us, the one refusing to pray with the other; the one accusing the other of manifest breaches of the Canons; the one cursing the other, and praying that he should n●uer die a Bishop: the other cursing him aga●ne, and praying that he should never return into his Country alive. B●th which came to pass. For chrysostom was cast out of his Bishopric, and died in banishment. And Epiphanius died in his return homeward. Y●t were both of these excellent holy and Catholic Bishops that thus contended. Eightly, And beside their own contentions, the taking of parts with them drew on much mischieife. Theophilus' Patriarch, of Alexandria joined with Epiphanius against chrysostom; and with them joined the other Bishops of the Provinces as they fancied. The Empress was set against chrysostom, being informed that he had made a Sermon against women. She incensed the Emperor by whose appointment, Theopilus called a Counsel of Bishops at Chalcedon, whither all Chrysostom●s enemies resorted, and there pronounced him deposed. Cyrinus, Bishop there, called him impious arrogant, and froward From thence most of the Bishops went to Constantinople but none of the Clergy met them, to do them honour. There they objected many crimes against him and cited him to answer. But he refused to come, excepting against them as his enemies, and appealing to a general Council. But finally they condemned him for obstinacy, in not coming unto them, and deprived him of his Bishopric. This being noised in the City, caused a great sedition multitudes watching about the Church to hinder his carrying away, an● cried out, his cause ought to be heard in a greater Council of Bishops. But by the Emperor's command and practise, he was driven out. Notwithstanding within a few days after, to appeal the tumults of people, he was recalled, Socrates lib. 6. cap. 16. placed ag●ine in his Bishopric restored to preaching and so continued a while: but not without tumults wherein many were wounded, and many killed And when he was banished again, the Cathedral Church at Constantinople, with the Senate h●use, were set on fire, and burned to the ground in the pursuit of revenge. Baronius beginning the story of this contention, Baron. tomo 5. anno 400. nu. 51. saith thus: I take in hand a great and lamentable narration, of strife, and direful persecution, not of Gentiles against Christians, nor heretics against Catholics, nor of wicked men against good and just but (which is monstrous and prodigious) even of Saints and holy men one against another. Ninthly, Socrates lib. 7. cap. 33. D. F●eld church. lib 5 cap 33. & ●p●end. 1 part. pag 116, 117, 118. &c D Hall Columb● No, pag. 44. In the first Council of Ephesus (being the third general Council) there arose great cont●ntions betwixt Cyril of Alexan ria, and john Bishop of Antioch, two Patriarches, either of them thundering Anathematisms against other, and depriving each other of their Churches. Theodores unhappily thrust his sickle into john's harvest, against whom (at the instigation of Euoptius) Cyrillus grievously inveighed. Theodoret accused cyril of Apollinarisme, and Cyrill accused Theodoret of N storianisme. And this fury spread so fare, that it drew almost the Christian world into sides. So that when afterwards Theodoret would have come into the Chalcedon Synod, the Egyptian and other reverend Bishops cried; If we receive Theodoret, we cast out Cyril: the Canons cast out Theodoret God abhors him. This was done in the first action of the Chalcedon Council, and again in the eight action, the Bishops crying out openly he is an Heretic, he is a Nestorian, away with the Heretic. Yet when the matter was fully known, and that Theodoret had willingly subscribed to the Orthodox Creeds, and to Leo's Epistles; The whole Syno● cried with one v●yce, Theodoret is worthy of his Ecclesiastical Sea let the Church receive her Catholic Pastor. Antiquus. Your discourse hath ● t me into a mixture of grief and ●o●: Grief that any of the holy, ancient Fathers have held any errors at all; and that there were such bitter contentions among them: joy, that seeing there were such, they are not hid from me. For that will make me more moderate in thinking of them, though reverently as holy men; yet still as men, subject to humane infirmities; and not in all things to make their sayings rules of my faith, or their doings patterns of my life: but altogether to make the most holy, perfect, infallible, and unstained word of God, the guides of both; and it shall make me also more wise in esteeming men now living, reverently for the graces of God which I see in them notwithstanding their humane frailties, such as I perceive the best Saints of God have had. But yet I see not any sufficient rule to lead me, to judge how you can challenge the Fathers to be of your Religion more than the Romans may challenge them to be of theirs. I perceive well, they differed from both in many things, wherein you both refuse them. Antiquissimus. You make that use of my discourse that I wish. For the Rule to direct your judgement, I have pointed at it often: and now I will briefly and as fully as I can, lay it open unto you. CHAP. 4. Of the Rule, to judge the soundness and purity of all Christians, and Churches by. This Chapter hath four Sections. The first Section; of the Rule used in the Primitive Church. The second, of the Rule enlarged and approved in this Age: The third, of Objections arising from the former discourses, and their answers. The fourth, of the necessity of Preaching still to them that hold the Rule. The first Section. §. 1. The Rule in general. §. 2. Opened by distinctions of the foundation of Religion. §. 3. A necessity to have a short rule drawn out of the Scriptures. §. 4. This rule is described by Saint Paul. §. 5. The practice of it, by the Apostles, who only delivered the most necessary fundamental points to the jews, and then baptised them. §. 6. The like practice used by the following Primitive Church, to their Catechumeni before Baptism. §. 1. THe Rule to judge all Christians and Churches by, is this; They that hold the same fundamental points of Christian Religion, which do sufficiently constitute the Church of Christ: and hold no other opinions wittingly and obstinately that overthrow any of these fundamental points; they are undoubtedly of the same true Church and Religion. §. 2. For the understanding of this Rule, note, 1 Saint Paul distinguisheth betwixt the foundation, and that which is built upon the foundation, 1 Cor. 3.10. As a wise Master-builder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. The word Foundation is taken two ways; First, for the principal thing which is to be believed, and whereupon our salvation is builded; that is, jesus Christ: as Saint Paul saith there, verse 11. Other foundation can no man lay, then that is laid, which is jesus Christ. Acts 4.12. There is no salvation in any other; there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved, 1 Tim. 3.16. This is the great mystery of godliness, God was manifest in the flesh, etc. This was Saint Peter's confession, Matth. 16.16. Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. Upon which confession (as Saint Augustine and chrysostom expound it) Christ said he would build his Church, and the gates of Hell should not prevail against it. Secondly, the word Foundation is taken for the Doctrine of the Scriptures, which teach salvation only by jesus Christ: as Ephes. 2.20. The house (that is the household, or Church) of God is built upon the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets: Jesus Christ himself the chief Corner stone. And so the Apostles are called twelve foundations, Reuel. 21.14. to wit, in respect of their doctrine, whereby they laid the foundation of the Church, and of men's salvation by jesus Christ. §. 3. 2 Although the whole Scripture, and every thing therein contained, or from it necessarily deduced, be a fit object for faith to apprehend; Yet that all Christians should thoroughly conceive and uniformly profess them all, is not to be hoped, B. Usher. Serm. at Wansted. pag 22. nor in any Age hath been found. As we have manifestly proved * In the former Chapter. . Variety of judgements in some points of lesser moment, which are not plainly delivered in the Scriptures, may be tolerated, and must not dissolve the unity which all must hold in the fundamental principles. Heaven was not prepared for deep Clerks only, which understood all, or for such as never differed in any opinion: 1 Cor. 132, 12. but even for such also as knew but in part, and saw through a glass darkly. Aug. epist. 57 Regula Fidei pufillis magnisque communis. And therefore beside that larger measure of knowledge, whereof all are not capable, there must be a rule of Faith common to great and small (as Saint Augustine calls it.) And as there is a common salvation a jude v. 3. (whereof the meanest believer is capable, as well as the greatest Apostles b 2 Pet. 1.1. ) so there must be a common faith c Tit. 1.4. sufficient to conduct us all unto it. §. 4. This Saint Paul calls, The form of sound words, 2 Tim. 1.13. hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love, which is in Christ jesus. 1 It must be a form, frame or fashion, body, method, Rule of Faith, or of sound and saving Doctrine, fit for all Preachers to frame their Sermons by, and all Christians to frame their faith and life by; Timothy in preaching, and the Ephesians in hearing and practising. 2 It must be, not only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (as rom. 6.17.) but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (here) a short form, or brief method. There must perspicuity for the understanding, and brevity for the memory of simple men. 3 To these must be added certainty (which thou hast heard of me:) learned of men, inspired by the Holy Ghost, 2 Pet. 1.21. 2 Tim. 3 15, 16, 17. Bellar. De verbo Dei lib. 1. cap. 2. § quare cum. Sacra Scriptura est regula credendi certissima, tutissimaque, saith Bellarmine. 4 Add also sufficiency: both for Credenda all things to be believed (in Faith:) and for Facienda all things to be performed (in Love,) which is the fulfilling of the Law. For true Faith and good life contain all things belonging to a Christian. And all things appertaining to these, that are necessary for all men to know, are contained in the Scriptures: saith Bell also * Idem ib. l. 4. c 11.9. His notatu Duo omnia illa scripta esse ab Apostolis, qua sunt omnibus necessaria, & quae ipsi palam omnibus pradicaverant. Costerus in Enchiridio c. 1. de sacra scriptura §. Caeterum. Caeterum non insiciamur praecipna illa capita qua omnibus Christianis ad salutem necessaria, perspicue satis essè Apostolicis scriptu comprehensa. As Augustine also de doctr. Christiana l. 2. c. 9. ●ellar. de justif l. 3. c. 8. § prima ratio. B. Usher. serm. Wansted p. 42. Vincent. Lirinen si● contra haeres. c. 3. In ipsa catholica ecclesia magnopere curandum est, ut id teneamus, quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est, hoc est enim verè proprinque catholicum. joan. Serran. in Apparat. ad fidem call ●l. edit. Paris. 1607. pag. 172. Usher ib. pag. 59 See S. August. libr. de fi de & operibus cap. 9 . Yea, and that plainly enough saith the jesuite Costerus. 5 And to these belong also that Antiquity, Universality, and Unity which are so much spoken of, and are usually, (but most falsely) applied to the new additions of the Roman Church, as well as to these fundamental principles: to which only they belong. Vincentius Lirinensis saith well; That is truly and properly Catholic and to be held in the Catholic Church, wh●ch in all places, in all times, and of all Christians, hath been, and is believed. And this (saith Serranus a late learned man, who hath written a full discourse of this argument) is that doctrine, against which the gates of Hell shall never prevail; and which the Father of lies by all his devices and attempts, could never yet, nor ever shall abolish, or foot out of the hearts of men. This Antiquity Universality, or Catholicism, and this Unity or General consent of Christian doctrine, will never be found any where, but in the essential, substantial and fundamental points thereof. 6 Saint Paul yet addeth these words, Which is in Christ jesus, because he is the deepest Foundation, root, Author, and finisher of our Faith and Love: of our future salvation, and of our present gracious conversation. Other Foundation can no man lay, saith the same Saint Paul 1. cor. 3.11. Not that there need no other principles of Faith then those that concern his person only and directly, (for the Articles concerning God the Father, the Holy Ghost, the forgiveness of sins, resurrection of the dead, the last judgement etc. have their place in the Foundation. Hebr. 6.1, ●.) but because Christ is the most especial object of our Faith, and the primary Foundation of all the other, for they have all reference unto him, being such as concern either His Father, or His spirit, or His incarnation, or His office of mediation, or His Church, or the special benefits which he hath purchased for it. And also, all the Articles, as they build us upon the Foundation, and as they incorporate us into the mystical Body, or as they are means of our justification and life, they look upon the son of God, and him only. Also, we must not only know the original cause of our salvation, but also our need thereof by knowledge of our original and actual sins, which deserve damnation and the means to communicate this salvation unto us, the Church, the Ministry, preaching, sacraments; and the duties which we must do. For (rome 10.14) how can we know God, or pray to him, without believing; or believe without hearing; or hear without preaching; or have preaching, except Preachers be sent from God by means of the Church? or know our duties without God's comandments; Mat. 15.9. Faith is necessary. Rom. 4.14. gal. 2.21. hebr. 11.6 so is new birth. Joh. 3.5. 2. cor. 5.17. joh. 13.8. Repentance. luc. 13.3. Denial of ourselves. luc. 9.23.24 etc. §. 5. But how fare these Fundamental principles (which are absolutely necessare to salvation) must extend, is a Question of some difficulty. The Apostles contented themselves in converting the Jews to Christian Religion, to teach them that Christ jesus was the Saviour of the world, and that Salvation was to be had only by Repentance from Dead works, and Faith in him. For that he was the very Messiah foretold by the Patriarches and Prophets, had died for our sins and rose again for our justification. They mentioned not God the Father, Creator, and Preserver of the world, nor the doctrine of the Trinity and other things (which the hearers knew before, without any new teaching, being Jew's and well acquainted with the Old Testament) but presupposing they were grounded in these points before, they laid the foundation of the New Testament, to wit Salvation by jesus Christ only: B. Usher in his Sermon at Wansted, 1624. And Bellarmin. also lib. 4. de verbo Dei cap. 11. allege these examples to this purpose. which when the people received and believed, they presently baptised them, and received them into the Congregation of Christ's flock. Thus did Sant Peter Acts 2. and Acts 3. and Acts. 4.10, 11, 12. The like course was used by Philip to the Eunuch who embraced the Old Testament Acts 8. 28-35-37. etc. And by Saint Peter to Cornelius, and his company (who had before received the Religion of the jews. Acts. 10.2, 22, 35, 43.) And by Saint Paul Acts 13.14, 16, 32, 38, 39 etc. The Apostles receiving the Converts to Baptism, upon adding to their former knowledge these few principles of true Faith in Christ jesus, and good life; shown, that in their judgement they wanted no essential thing, necessary for the making of them true members of the Church, and perfect Christians: or (as our Catechism calls them) members of Christ, Children of God, and inheritors of the Kingdom of Heaven and that if God should take them out of this world in their first entrance into these principal grounds of salvation, without further knowledge or practice: yet undoubtedly they should die sufficient Christians, and in the state of Grace. §. 6. Conformable to the Apostles practise, the Christians of the Primitive Church baptised those that were Catechised in the grounds of saving doctrine (as the essential points of Religion, that constitute a Christian) as appeareth by Irenaeus and Tertullian, See Irenaeus and Tertullian cited before. chap. 1. sect. 2. sub. 1. §. 2. whom I alleged before, and by the Creeds which were ordained as Badges of Christians and differences of true believers from either unbelievers or heretics. The Western Churches used in their Baptism that short form of confession, comonnlly called the Apostles Creed: which in the more ancient times was breefer then now it is (as our Learned Bishop Usher hath punctually observed. B. Usher serm. at Wansted. p. 28. ) The mention of the Father's being Maker of Heaven and Earth, the Son's death and descending into Hell, and the Commuion of Saints, being wholly omitted (happily as not necessary for all men to know as Suarez saith, or sufficiently implied in other articles, or known by the light of reason, and so not making difference betwixt Christians and heathen, these reasons some for one point, some for another) But being in time made (for better explication) so full as it is, now the whole Western Church hath long received as a badge of their Faith distinguishing the Believer from the unbeliever. The Eastern Church used in Baptism a larger Creed, Usher. ib. p. 30. Euseb. ep. apud Socrat l. 1. hist. cap. 8. (al. 5.) & Theodoret. lib. 1. cap. 12. the same or very little different from that we call the Nicene Creed, because the greatest part thereof was repeated and confirmed in the Nicene Council; to which it was presented by Eusebius Bishop of Caesarea, with this Preamble: As we have received from the Bishops that were before us, both at our first Catechising, and when we received Baptism; and as we have learned from the holy scriptures; and as we have both believed and taught, when we entered into the Ministry, and in our Bishopric itself: so believing at this present also, we declare this our Faith unto you. To this the Nicene Fathers added a more clear explication of the Deity of the Son (against the Arrians, which then troubled the Church) professing him to be begotten not made: and to be of one substance with the Father. The second general Council assembled 56 years after, at Constantinople, approving all the former, added also something concerning the holy Ghost (which then was oppugned by the Macedonian Heretics.) The same Fathers also then added the Articles concerning the Catholic Church, and the privileges thereunto belonging. The Roman Church, after the days of Charles the Great, added the Article of Procession of the Holy Ghost from the Son. And the late Council of Trent recommended it unto us, Concil. Trident. seff. 3. as That principle in which all that profess the faith of Christ, do necessarily agree, and the firm and only foundation against which, the gates of Hell shall never prevail. And by which alone, our Fathers sometimes drew Infidels to the faith, overcame Heretics, and confirmed the faithful. Such are the words of the Trent Council. So that in this Creed they confess, That only foundation and principle of faith is to be found, in the unity whereof, all Christians must necessarilly agree. Section. 2. §. 1. The rule enlarged, and approved in this Age. §. 2 By Azorius, out of the School-divines, in 14 Articles. §. 3. Some observations and censures of those 14 Articles. §. 4. The rule set down by Bellarmine, more briefly. §. 5. By D. Field, fare more sufficiently, in 6 Articles, with his judgement of the deductions therefrom; evident, or obscure. §. 6. B. Ushers distinction of superstructions upon the foundation. §. 7. Consequents of this doctrine. §. 1. But, because we see, this foundation of faith, hath from the Apostles times continually been en●●ged by reason of errors and heresies arising in s●●erall Ages; let us search a little further how the most judicious men do● bound it in these our days. §. 2. Azorius the jesuite delivers the unanimous consent of all the Roman Divines in 14 Articles, Azorius Institu. tionum moralium part. 1. lib. 8. cap 5. § At iuxta. ibid. § tertio quaeritur. & seq. whereof seven concern the Divine nature, and seven concern the humane all which are to be believed explicitè, (with distinct understanding) of all men. Of the first seven, there is taught in the First, That God is in Nature and Substance, eternal, infinite, immense, and in majesty highest, every where, not only in power, might, and efficacy, but also in deed and truly, present: who hath power of life and death; is the supreme Lord of all things: who can with his beck, and at his pleasure do all things which he will: who knoweth, seethe, careth for, and moderateth all things Secondly, The first person in nature and divine substance, to wit, The Father is the beginning of two divine persons and therefore the begetter of the Son and breather of the Holy Spirit: unbegotten, subsisting of himself and by himself; not receiving, and having his essence of another. Third, The second person in the Divine nature is true God, begotten of the Father only, from all eternity, the natural Son of God, consubstantial and equal to him in all things, the only Word and express Image of the Father, most perfectly representing and expressing him. Fourth. The third person in the divine Nature, the Holy Ghost, proceeding from the Father and the Son from all eternity, is true God, coaeternall to them both, coequal, and consubstantial, and to be worshipped with the same faith, and with equal service and honour. Fifth. God is the creator of all things, who by his only beck and word out of nothing produced all things visible and invisible or the whole frame of the worl● in the beginning of time; and having produced them, preserves, directs, cares for, and governs them with great goodness and wisdom. And as he is the creator of all things, from whom all things being made of nothing did in time proceed: so he is the end of all, to whom all things are referred Sixt. God is the giver of all righteousness holiness, and grace. He forgiveth sins and restoreth sinners by the grace of adoption to his favour and friendship. Seventh. God is the bestower of eternal glory and heavenly felicity in whom the highest happiness of blessed souls consisteth. Of the other seven Articles concerning the humane Nature: The First showeth that the Son of God for our sakes debased himself from Heau●n to these inferior parts, descended and assumed the human Nature, and coupled it to himself with a marvellous knot and bond, in such sort, that after that conjunction there was one person of both, subsisting in two Natures, divine and humane; and therefore in time he was conceived, without Father, of an uncorrupt Virgin, the power of the holy Ghost so working in her, that the word was made flesh, and God Man. The Second showeth the same Son of God taking humane Nature of the undefiled Virgin was borne into the world in such sort, that Many was at once the Mother of God and a pure V rgin. The Third showeth how Chri●● our Lord did most excellently perform the office of teaching & working miracles, died and made his end under Pilate the judge and Precedent, and under him endured an unjust condemnation and suffered the most shameful kind of punishment of the cross, and sustained the most bitter death for us and refused not burial offered unto him in another Man's sepulchre. The Fourth article teacheth how Christ after he had died upon the cross, descended in his soul into * Or, the lower parts, infero●. hell, both that he might show himself conqueror of death and Devils, and also the deliverer of the Fathers there detained: and in his body he lay three days in the sepulchre. The Fifth professeth that Christ the third day returning conquer●n● from the lower parts, to l●fe immortal and full of glory, by his own force and power, did rise from the dead. The sixth showeth how Christ having performed the work of Man's redemption, the fortieth day after his resurrection by his own power ascended into heaven, that in his humane Nature he might be exalted above all things, and he above all might be chief worshipped of all; who sits in heaven at the right hand of the power of God, and as God exercising equal power with the Father, and shining with divine Majesty. The Seventh article setteth out the last judgement day, when Christ in his humane Flesh shall descend again from the highest heaven, and performing the office of the terrible judge of the whole earth, shall openly render unto every one according as he hath done in his body, whether it be good or evil: before whose tribunal all men both good and evil shall stand, whether that day of judgement find them yet alive in the flesh, or dead before. These 14 articles I have set down at large, and in the full words of Azorius (not that I approve every word and point therein, but) to show what is the general doctrine of the present Roman Church, what and how much is necessary for every man to know and to believe explicitè to his salvation. Note, he is said to believe explicitè who assenteth to any thing that is told him, or which he conceiveth in his thought; and he believeth implicitè, which believeth any thing in generality, and in that thing believeth many other things which are contained in it, as when a man believeth all things which the Church believeth. Azor ib. cap. 6. in calce. Thus saith Azorius out of Gabriel the Schoolman. §. 3. Abundant in superfluis, deficiunt in necessarijs. Be●● s●pr● l t●k See ●ellar in th●t chapter at large. First, These Articles upon due consideration will be found to have two faults, they contain too much, and too little. Too much, for all things in them are not taught in the Scriptures (as namely that of the fourth Article of the Humanity, that Christ descended into hell to deliver the Fathers there detained) as by Bellarmine's confession, and the ancient Father's testimonies they should be. Costerus ●uchir. cap. 1. pag. 49. § Caterum. Costerus the jesuite saith also, that the chief heads of faith, necessary for all Christians to know, and to believe unto salvation are plainly enough contained in the Apostles writings. Secondly, these Articles also contain too little, for here want somethings that are delivered in the Apostles Creed, which Creed was ordained for the necessary instruction of all Christians, and called Symbolum a badge, or sign to distinguish Christians from Infidels and wicked people. Axor ib. cap. 5. § Postremo ob●●tes. There were indeed three Symbols or Creeds received in the Church for brief comprehensions of the public necessary doctrines thereof, for all Christ ans to know and profess, the Apostles Creed, the N●cene and Athanasius his Creed which three do not contain diverse doctrines, but rather one and the same faith, set forth more largely o● briefly, ●n more or fewer words, more clearly and distinctly to confute heresies as they sprung up in the Church. In these Creeds, we are taught that there is one holy Catholic Church, and Communion of Saints, etc. which in these fourteen Articles are not mentioned. Thirdly, Besides some other things which the Romanists account very necessary Articles of their faith, as that of transubstantiation, that of Purgatory, that of the Pope's supremacy, which they have wholly left out, as they have done also the worshipping of Images, Invocation of Saints, Prayer for the dead, (and generally all other things almost which we refuse) showing thereby, (and so much gratifying us) that in their own judgement these things are not necessary for ordinary Christians to believe to salvation. Fourthly, and the view of these Articles may confirm any man in the sufficiency of the Protestants Religion, because they steadfastly believe (excepting that one clause of one of them) all these Articles, which the Romanists themselves say are sufficient for salvation. Neither do the Protestants hold any thing at all that crosseth them. §. 4. But Bellarmine touching upon this point, Bellar. De verbo Dei lib. 4. c. 11. initio. in answering to Irenaeus, and diverse other Fathers that say, The Apostles wrote all that they preached: saith more briefly, There are some things simply necessary for all men to salvation, as the knowledge of the Articles of the Apostles Creed, and of the ten Commandments, and of some Sacraments: other things are not so necessary, that without the manifest knowledge, faith, and profession of them a man cannot be saved, if so be that he have a ready will to receive and believe them when they shall be lawfully propounded unto him by the Church. And this distinction, (saith he) is gathered from hence, that without the knowledge and faith of the Mysteries of the first kind, no man of a ripe Age is admitted to Baptism: but without the knowledge and Faith (at least explicit) of the latter, men were ordinarily admitted, Acts 2 after one sermon of Saint Peter wherein he had taught the principal heads of faith in Christ, in one day 3000 men were baptised, who without doubt knew nothing else but those necessary things. And therefore it is added, that after baptism they persevered in the Doctrine of the Apostles, that is, they learned what yet they had not heard of Christian Mysteries etc. B. Usher. Sermon at Wanst●d pag. 32. See also his book De Christianarum eccles. successu & statu cap. 1. § 15. This our Bishop Usher agreeth unto, alleging the Apostles sermons to that purpose, which treated only of the first principles of the Doctrine of Christ, upon the receiving whereof (as of sufficient doctrine to make them Christians) men were baptised. And this he further confirmeth by the writings of Irenaeus and Tertullian, and the Creeds received by the Church, the Apostles Creed, the Creed of Athanasius, The Creed of the East Church, See before, cap. 1. sect. 2. subject. 1. §. 2. recited and confirmed for the belief of the whole Church in the Counsels of Nice and Constantinople and the late Council of Trent. Whereof I have spoken already. § 5. D. Field of the Church book 3. chap 4. Our Doctor Field, doth more fully and perfectly describe those things, that so nearly touch the very life and being of Christian Faith and Religion, that every one is bound particularly and expressly to know and believe them, upon pain of eternal damnation. He reduceth them to six principal heads: First, concerning God, whom to know is eternal life: we must believe and acknowledge the unity of an infinite, incomprehensible, and eternal essence, full of righteousness, goodness, mercy, and truth; The Trinity of persons subsisting in the same essence; the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, coessential, coeternal, and coequal: the Father not created, nor begotten, the Son not created but begotten, the holy Ghost not created nor begotten, but proceeding. Secondly, we must know and believe, that God made all things of nothing, that in them he might manifest his wisdom, power, and goodness, that he made men and Angels capable of supernatural blessedness, consisting in the vision and enjoying of himself; that he gave them abilities to attain thereunto, and laws to guide them in the ways that lead unto it; that nothing was made evil in the beginning; that all evil entered into the world by the voluntary aversion of men and Angels from God their Creator; that the sin of Angels was not general, but that some fell, and other continued in their first estate; that the sin of those Angels that fell is irremissible, and their fall irrevocable; that these are become devils and spirits of error, seeking the destruction of the sons of men; that by the misperswasion of these lying spirits, the first man that ever was in the world, fell from God by sinful disobedience and apostasy; that the sin of the first man is derived to all his posterity, not by imitation only, but by propagation and descent, subiecting all to curse and malediction; yet not without possibility and hope of merciful deliverance. Thirdly, we must believe, that for the working of this deliverance, the Son of God assumed the nature of man, into the unity of his Divine person; so that he subsisteth in the nature of God, and Man, without all corruption, confusion, or conversion of one of them into another: that in the nature of man thus assumed, he suffered death but being God could not be holden of it, but rose again, and triumphantly ascended into heaven: that he satisfied the wrath of his Father, obtained for us remission of sins past, the grace of repentant conversion, and a new conversation, joined with assured hope, desire, and expectation of eternal happiness. Fourthly, we must constantly believe, that God doth call and gather to himself out of the manifold confusions of erring, ignorant, and wretched men, whom he pleaseth, to be partakers of these precious benefits of eternal salvation: the happy number and joyful society of whom, we name the Church of God; whether they were before or since the manifestation of Christ the Son of God in our flesh. For both had the same faith, hope, and spirit of adoption, whereby they were sealed unto eternal life; though there be a great difference in the degree, and measure of knowledge, and the excellency of the means, which God hath vouchsafed the one, more than the other. Fiftly, we must know and believe, that for the publishing of this joyful deliverance, and the communicating of the benefits of the same, the Son of God committed to those his followers, whom he chose to be witnesses of all things he did or suffered, not only the word of Reconciliation, but also the dispensation of sacred and sacramental assurances of his love, set means of his gracious working: that those first messenger's, whom he sent with immediate commission, were infallibly led into all truth, and left unto posterities that sum of Christian Doctrine, that must for ever be the rule of our faith: that these blessed messengers of so good and happy tidings, departing hence, left the Ministry of Reconciliation to those whom they appointed to succeed them, in the work so happily began by them. Lastly, we must know, and be assuredly persuaded, that seeing the renovation of our spirits and minds is not perfect; and the redemption, of our bodies still remaining corruptible, is not yet; therefore God hath appointed a time, when Christ shall return again, raise up the dead, and give eternal life to all, that with repentant sorrow, turn from their evil and wicked ways, while it is yet the accepted time, and day of salvation; and contrary ways, cast out into utter darkness, and into the fire that never shall be quenched, all those that neglect, & despise so great salvation. All these things, and these only, do directly concern the matter of eternal salvation: saith Doctor Field. These things (saith he) make the rule of faith, whereof a man cannot be ignorant, and be saved. By these all the holy Fathers, Bishops and Pastors of the Church, measured and made their Sermons, Commentaries, and interpretations of Scripture. This rule is delivered by Tertullian, Irenaeus, Tertull. de praescriptionibus adversus hareticos, & adversus Praxcam. Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 3. See here before. cap. 1. sect. 2. subsect. 1. §. 2. and other of the Fathers: and with addition of conclusions most easily, clearly, and avoidable deduced hence, by Theodoret in his Epitome Dogmatum. For a second sort of things there are that attend on these first as consequents deduced from them, or some way appertaining to them: such as a man being persuaded of these, will see the necessary consequence and deduction of them from these, if they be propounded unto him. As that there are two wills in Christ: that there is no salvation, remission of sins, or hope of eternal life out of the Church, etc. In such second things clearly deduced from the first principles, if a man err he can hardly be saved. A third sort of things there are, which are not so clearly deduced from those first indubitate principles; as, namely, concerning the place of the Father's rest before the coming of our Saviour Christ; concerning the local descending of Christ into the hell of the damned, etc. Of this third sort, a man may be ignorant, and err in them without danger of damnation, if error be not joined with pertinacy. §. 6. The like doctrine doth our Bishop Usher deliver, B. Usher, Sermon at Wansled. pag. 33. 1 Cor. 3.12. in words of analogy to Saint Paul's similitude of building; Some build upon this foundation, gold, Silver, precious Stones, Wood, Hay, Stubble. Some (saith he) proceed from one degree of wholesome Knowledge unto another; increasing their main stock, by the addition of those other sacred truths that are revealed in the word of God: and these build upon the foundation, gold, and silver, and precious stones. Others retain the precious foundation, but lay base matter upon it; wood, hay, stubble, and such other, either unprofitable or more dangerous stuff: and others go so fare, that they overthrew the very foundation itself. The first of these be wise, the second foolish, the third mad builders. When day of trial cometh, the first man's work shall abide, Ibid. v. 14, 15. and he himself shall receive a reward; the second shall lose his work, but not himself. The third, shall lose both himself and his work together.— And as in buildings there is great difference to be made betwixt such parts as are more contiguous to the foundation, and such as be remoter off; So the doctrines or conclusions nearly conjoined to the first principles of Religion, and grate upon the foundation, may more establish or endanger the building, than those that come not near the foundation; and therefore the nearer they are to the foundation, the more important be the truths, and the more perilous be the errors: And again, the farther they are removed off, the less necessary is the knowledge of such verities, and the swerving from the truth less dangerous. §. 7. Out of all this we may deduce these consequents. First, to these fundamental points (which are absolutely necessary to salvation) the unity of faith is to be restrained, and beyond them not to be extended. So that such as hold diversity of opinions in other points of less moment not crossing these may still be of one faith or Church, and heirs of salvation, as long as they hold the true foundation. Secondly, by this rule the ancient Fathers are cleared to be sound Christians. This we have showed in the former chapter. For though many of them (as is aforesaid) held the millenary error: many held that the souls of just men shall not see God till the resurrection, many that the very Devils should not be tormented in hell till the judgement. Many taught freewill before Grace. Some taught the Omnipresence, and Omniscience of Saints departed. Cyprian and many more held rebaptisation necessary for such as were baptised by Heretics: Saint Augustine, and the greatest part of the Curch for six hundred years, held a necessity of the Eucharist to Infants: and in many other things they differed one from another and from the Church in the aftertimes: See D. Field. Church. book. 3. chap. 5. § All these. Yet because they all entirely and steadfastly held all the necessary fundamental principles which these errors did not infringe, neither held they these errors obstinately or incorrigibly, but only for want of better information: they were certainly of the same Church and Religion whereof we are, and whereof all are that hold the same principles unweakened by any other. Thirdly the l●ke is to be said of the Waldenses, though many of those smaller errors were true, which (as I have showed before) were falsely imputed unto them. Fourthly, the same may be said also of our Fathers that lived in the Communion of the Church of Rome, before Luther's time, and b●fore the Council of Trent. Their holding and professing th●se necessary fundamental points as I have showed before, * See before chap. 1. sect. 4. per tot. was sufficient to make them true Christians, if in life and death they shown the power and virtue thereof: and maintained not obstinately any gross points that infringed the foundation. Fiftly, the same may be also said of all the Churches in the world, where the ancient foundations are retained, B. Ushers serm. at Wansted. pag. 43. The Greek, Armenian, Aethiopian, Russian, etc. For if we should take a general view of them all, putting by the points wherein they differ one from another, and gathering into one body the rest of the Articles wherein they all did generally agree: we should find, that in those propositions which without all controversy are universally received in the whole Christian world, so much truth is contained, as being joined with holy obedience, may be sufficient to bring a man to everlasting salvation. B. Usher. ib. D. Field. church. book. 3. chap. 5. This is Bishop Ushers opinion, and Doctor Fields of these Churches. Section. 3. §. 1. Objection. If holding the foundation will serve, than we may safely obtain salvation in the Church of Rome. §. 2. Answer. The Curch of Rome holds many things which by consequent destroys the Foundation, by master hooker's judgement. §. 3. Objection. This crosseth what was said before: That many before Luther's time might be saved in the Roman Church. Answ. no, for they lived in those errors of ignorance, not obstinacy; and not knowing any dangerous consequence of them. §. 4. Such men, by particular repentance of sins known, and general repentance of unknown; might by God's mercy be saved. §. 5. Observations hereof. §. 6. Other learned Protestants join in opinion with master Hooker. §. 1. Antiquus. If this be so: then (to omit other Churches) I see no reason, but we may well and safely continue in the Roman Church, and therein receive salvation: because (as you have said, and it appears by Azorius and all the schoole-divines) that Church holds the Foundation, which is (by your own confession) sufficient to salvation: though she hath added many other things, not necessary absolutely to salvation, yet profitable for the fuller service of God, beauty of the Church, and pious life. §. 2. Antiquissimus. If she added none but such things, we should account them not only tolerable, but commendable. But we charge her with addition of such doctrines and practices, as being obstinately pursued, spoil and overthrew the Foundation which she professeth to hold. Whereof hear one man, Mr. Richard Hooker, a man of great account for learning, judgement, and moderation, who used very carefully to weigh in the balance of impartial discretion all the words, sentences and phrases, which he wrote; and whose works have been already sixetimes printed without any alteration: hooker's Discourse of justification. § 17. He grants that the Church of Rome holds the foundation in profession, but overthrows it by the consequence of many opinions and practices now generally retained in it. As the Galatians held the foundation (to wit, salvation by jesus Christ) and yet withal held a necessity of joining circumcision with Christ; which doctrine by consequence destroyed the very foundation, for so Saint Paul wrote unto them, Gal. 5, 2, 4. If they were circumcised, Christ profited them nothing, he became of none effect unto them, they were fallen from grace. In like manner (saith he) The Church of Rome, professing to hold the foundation of faith, yet by joining other things with Christ, and by teaching many things pernicious in Christian faith, doth by consequence plainly overthrew the foundation of faith. Plainly (saith his Margin) in all men's sight whose eyes God hath enlightened to behold his truth, for they which are in error are in darkness, and see not that which in light is plain. One of their pernicious errors, he toucheth there in the Margensaying, Ibid. §. 11. They hold the same with Nestorius, fully the same with Eutiches, about the proprieties of Christ's Nature. More he mentioneth else where in the text, calling them such Impieties as by their law, they have established, and whereunto all that are among them, either do indeed assent, or else are by powerful means forced, in show and appearance, to subject themselves. See also ibid. § 2●. For example: In the Church of Rome is maintained, that the same credit and reverence that we give to the Scriptures of God, ought also to be given to unwritten verities; that the Pope is supreme head ministerial over the universal Church militant, That the bread in the Eucharist is Transubstantiated into Christ; That it is to be adored and to be offered unto God, as a sacrifice propitiatory for quick and dead; That Images are to be worshipped; Saints to be called upon as Intercessors, and such like. §. 3. Antiquus. How agrees this with that you said before, that the Church of Rome (excepting the Papacy therein) continued to be the Church of God till Luther's time? for even those (whom you call the Church of God) lived and died in the profession of these errors which now you say destroy the foundation of the Church of God. Antiquissimus Understand us right; They that hold these and such like errors for worldly respects, knowing them to be heresies, and make semblance of allowing that which in heart and judgement they condemn: as also they that heretically maintain them, by holding them obstinately after wholesome admonition: Mr. Hooker makes no doubt, Cyprian cited be●ore, cap. 1. Sect. 4 § 3. 'tis 3. 1●, 11. so al●o ●il. 3.2 gall 3. ●0, 12. & 1, 7, 8, 9 but their condemnation without an actual repentance, is inevitable. And this is confirmed by Saint Cyprians famous sentence by me cited before; and by Saint Paul, saying, A man that is an heretic, after the first and second admonition reject: knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth being condemned of himself. But many lived in these errors in the Church of Rome, not knowing them to be errors or heresies; Hooker ibid. § 12. nor ever understanding that the consequent thereof destroyed the Foundation of Faith. They following the conduct of their guides, and observing exactly what was prescribed them, Ibid. § 13. thought they did God good service, when indeed they did dishonour him. They did but erroneously practise what their guide's hereticallly taught. And though the pit be ordinarily the end both of the guide and of the guided in blindness, yet God's mercy might save them that sinned only of erroneous piety, and were merely deceived by thinking too well, and trusting too much their heretical teachers; not being in the rank of them who received not the love of the truth to believe it, and had pleasure in unrighteousness, and so were worthy to be given over to strong delusions and damnation: 2 thes. 2.10, 11, 12. This is confirmed likewise by the former sentence of Saint Cyprian; Cyprian cited before, cap. 1. sect 4. sect;. 3. Augustine cited before cap. 1. sect. 4. in the V Reason. 1 Cor. 1.2. & 15.14 gal. 1.2. & 5, 2, 4, 10. Hook. ib. § 26. and by the judgement of Saint Augustine, formerly alleged; and by Saint Paul's embracing the Corinthians and Galatians, as Churches of Christ, notwithstanding the errors which they held, being of mere ignorance and seduced by false Teachers. For the false teachers of circumcision, or the froward, stiffnecked, and obstinate defenders thereof, after wholesome admonition, Saint Paul calleth dogs (Phil. 3.2.) and wisheth them cut off, (Gal. 5 12.) and pronounceth them accursed (Gall 1.8.) But them that held the same error, of ignorance, not knowing the dangerous consequence of it, and retained a mind docible and desirous to be instructed in the truth: and to follow it, Them Saint Paul pitieth, to them he writeth as to the Church of Christ (Gal. 1.2.) them with fatherly tenderness, he admonisheth, instructeth, and embraceth as his children. §. 4. And although many of our Fathers in the Church of Rome, died in their errors, not knowing them to be errors, and therefore may be thought never to have repent of them: yet the same may be said of the Corinthians and Galatians, that many of them died before S. Paul either heard of their seducing, or had time to reduce them, but of their & the living also, in the very beginning of his Epistles (before he delivered his instructions) he spoke comfortably, and saluted them as the Churches and Saints of God. Hooker ibid. § 18. &. 20. And Mr. Hooker gives a reason, why they that hold the foundation of Christian Religion, cannot be said to dye without some kind of Repentance, even for unknown sins. The least sin in deed, word, or thought, is to be accounted deadly without repentance, and God's mercy. Yet many sins escape us without knowledge of them, & many which we observe not to be sins: and without actual and particular knowledge, or observation of them, there can be no actual or particular repentance of them: yet for as much as all that hold the foundation of religion inviolable in their hearts, have a general hatred of all sin, though for actual known sins an actual and particular repentance is required, See Archb. Abbot. ag. Hil. reason 5. § 28. yet for secret and unknown sins (as common oversights, errors, and such as we either know not, or know them not to be sins) a general hatred, and a general repentance of all, obtains the mercy of God, through the mediation of jesus Christ. Psal. 51. title. Psal. 19.12. David repent actually, particularly, and punctually for his known particular sins: but of others he saith in general, who can understand his errors? or know how oft he offendeth? Lord, cleanse thou me from my secret faults. See here chap. 3. § 1.13. Many ancient Fathers erroneously held freewill, and yet were not accounted heretics, because it was of mere ignorance, whereof they were never convicted, neither was there any full sufficient settling of the truth of that point in the Church before their times, nor the evil consequence thereof discerned. And heresy is the obstinate maintaining of such errors, after the truth is plainly taught, sufficient to convict them. The like may be said of the Millenary error, See ibid. and many other which diverse of the ancient Fathers held, as afore is mentioned. §. 5. Here you may observe, First, the Church of Rome is charged with errors, Hock. ibid. § 17. by consequence whereof the very foundation of faith is plainly overthrown, and the force of the blood of jesus Christ extinguished. Secondly, the wilful and obstinate maintainers thereof, after wholesome admonition, are guilty of unavoidable condemnation, without actual repentance. Thirdly, our Fathers that lived in those errors, D. Whi●● Woy. pag. 448. Morn●y church. cap. 9 end. and held them only upon ignorance; as they were taught, not thinking they did amiss, and never understanding the dangerous consequence of them; might, by their general hatred and repentance of all sin, though unknown, be saved through God's mercy: and by holding the foundation, and nothing in their knowledge and intent contrary thereunto, were to be accounted members of the true Church of God. Fourthly, this ignorance in these times cannot give any colour of excuse, since by reason of Luther's opposition, these things have been better discussed, the errors discovered, and the dangerous consequence of them sufficiently published to the world, not only by the Divines of other Countries, but even by our own English; So that after so large a publication thereof we may say as Saint Paul, 2 Cor. 4.3. 2 Cor. 4.3, 4. If our Gospel he hide, it is hid to them that are lost. In whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the Image of God, should shine unto unto them. 2 Thess. 2.10, 11, 12. And 2 Thess. 2.10. In them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved: for which cause God sendeth them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie; that they might all be damned, who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. §. 6. Antiquus. You bring forth but one man, and make him great with praises, as if with his great person and big words, like Goliath, he were sufficient to scar and and fright the whole army of God. Antiquissimus. No, Sir, I bring him forth as humble David against your Goliath of Rome: and I will, (if you require it) adjoin unto him many other Worthies (like David's) able to quell all your Giants, not with big words, but with sound blows. D. Field. appendix to the fift book pag. vlt. Secondly, Our worthy Doctor Field in his whole five books of the Church every where showeth your corruptions and refuteth them. But for the present read only the last page of his whole work, where he layeth to the charge of the present Church of Rome, 2 number of erroneous points, wherein men living and dying, can never be saved, and wherein that Church showeth herself to be the Synagogue of Satan, the faction of Antichrist, and that Babylon, out of which we must fly, unless we will be partakers of her plagues. Thirdly, our worthy Bishop Downam, in his books De Antichrists, showeth the same. His whole third book setteth out the opposition of the Pope to Christ's especially the sixth and seventh Chapters contain a Catalogue of the errors and heresies of the present Roman Church: and the eight Chapter showeth her opposition against the offices and benefits of Christ, every where alleging your own authors for confirmation of that the saith. Fourthly, The like doth D. Gabriel powel in his two books, De Antichristo, & De Ecclesia Antichristi. If I should but reckon up the names only of Protestants which write of these points Punctually (as these above named) or otherwise other largely or briefly, either purposely or occasionally and obiter, by the way,) I should be needlessly tedious. Fifthly, M. Perkins upon the Epistle of S. Judas pag. 261. I will therefore conclude with one in stead of all, to wit Mr. Perkins. In his Lectures upon jude verse. 19 he saith, we may not separate from the (visible particular) Church, 1 for the corrupt manners of Men (except from the private society of notorious offenders only in private conversation. 1. cor. 5.11) but only for errors in doctrine: 2 and not for all errors, but only for errors great and weighty (for smaller errors cut not of salvation, and therefore must not cause a separation. 1 cor. 3, 15) and 3 for those weighty errors even in the substance of doctrine, or in the Foundation, if they beheld only of frailty, we may not separate: but if they be held and maintained with obstinacy, then with good conscience we may, and must separate from the maintainers of them. 1 tim. 6.3, 4.5. Acts 19.9.2 Chron. 11.4, 16, 17. Antiquus. I like well of Mr. Perkins judgement, that we may not make separation for any other cause but only for great and weighty errors against the foundation of Religion, and for those only when they are held with obstinacy. But where doth he charge the Church of Rome with any such? Antiquissimus. Even in the same Exposition of that Epistle of Saint jude verse. 3 where he speaketh of the points of Common Salvation from pag. 37 to pag, 97. There he describeth 21 grounds of Faith, and 11 grounds of God's service and good life: which the Church of Rome (as there he showeth) doth very much infringe, and in many things overthrew, by the points of doctrine and practice, which it maintaineth. Reed and weigh them advisedly. Section. 4. § 1. There is a necessity, or great profit of Preaching even to them that are well grounded in all necessary Principles. § 2. As Israel needed all helps after the giving of the Law: and all were too little. § 3. The profits of Preaching in general. § 4. Some particulars, for continual spiritual food, cordial medicine and comfort, memory, armour, etc. § 5. The continual need thereof was found in all Churches, planted even by the Apostles, and in their times. §. 1. Antiquus. I will read them at my better leisure. But now by the way, by your allowing these principal grounds of Religion, to be sufficient for all men to salvation. You seem to cut off all necessity of so much preaching, as is used amongst you. For what needs so much preaching and hearing, when men are already instructed in all points necessary to salvation; Antiquissimus. Preaching is still necessary, because faith and regeneration must continually receive increase. 2 Pet. 3. 1●. As S. Peter exhorteth in the last words of his later Epistle, Grow in grace, and in knowledge, etc. If knowledge and grace were so perfect in all believers at the first instant, that no relics of blindness or corruptions remained in their understanding, 1 Cor. 13.9, 12. rom. 7.23. gal. 5.17. eph. 6.11, 12, 13, etc. will, and affection: no temptation, avocations, suffocations and seductions in the world to withdraw them; your speech were to some purpose. But since these things are so common in this world, and so powerful; it is most necessary to use of all those means which God hath prescribed, especially the continual use of the public Ministry, which by the inward working of the Holy Ghost, reneweth, raiseth, and bloweth up (as Bellowes do the fire) our faith and love, which else would soon wax cold, die out, and be extinguished. 2 Cor. 4.10. But by these means (whatsoever become of the outward Man) the Inward man is renewed day by day. §. 2. When the Israelites were already taught the grounds of Religion, in the ten Commandments, Exod. 20. Yet the Lord thought it necessary to add Interpretations, and fuller explications, thereof, and many ceremonies for their better training and exercise in those grounds, and for the better keeping of them from the Idolatry of the Gentiles. He thought it also necessary to give them a Deuteronomie or Repetition of the Law, Deut. 1.3, 6. &c after it had been fully delivered; Beside the extraordinary testimonies of his continual presence with them, Exod. 13.21. & 16.11, 14. & 17.5. by the pillar of fire by night and the cloud by day; by Manna from heaven. Quaiks from the Sea, water from the Rock, strange victories, deliverances, signs & wonders, blessings and punishments: all which were Sermons unto them of God's power and love to keep them in his obedience and service. And in the land of Canaan, Acts 15.21. (where they were settled) they had continual reading and interpreting of the Law every Sabbath day; continual use of the Sacraments, Circumcision and the Passeover, and of all sacrifices and ceremonies to keep them in memory of the Covenant, to stir them up and exercise them to obedience, comfort, faith, and hope in the Promised Messiah, the salvation and glory of the world. And yet all these were too little to keep them in the true service of God, or from falling away to the Idolatry of the Nations. See 1 Cor. 10. the 11. first verses. For all this many fell to Idolatry Adultery tempting of God, murmuring and other sins, so that multitudes of them were one way or other destroyed. And all these things happened unto them for our examples. §. 3. Therefore we also have need not only of the grounds well laid; but of continual explications, and applications thereof, excitations of our affections, exhortations to obedience, renovations of our memories, armour against temptations of seductions, or profaneness, comforts against all afflictions, food against all faintings, and physic against all the maladies of the soul. All which the contiunall use of the Preaching of the word Ministereth unto us. Col. 3.16. Heb. 10.25. Heb. 3.12, 13. Psal. 1.1. Deut. 6.6, 7, 8, 9 Heb. 6.1. Eph. 4 11, 12, 13, 14. 2 Pet. 1. 5-10. And therefore we are every where exhorted that the word of God may dwell plentifully among us, that we forsake not the assemblies, that we exhort and stir up one another, that we meditate upon the law of God day and night; that we grow up to perfection, to a full measure of knowledge and holiness; that we be not as children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleights of men, and cunning craftiness; that by adding to Faith, virtue, and to virtue, knowledge; (by continual adding further degrees to our first graces) we make our calling and election sure, and put ourselves out of danger of falling away. Somethings are absolutely necessary Necessitate finis, to attain the end (as are these Fundamental doctrines) other things are also necessary, but Necessitate medi●, as profitable means to be used for that end: such are the removing of all hindrances, and the using of all furtherances wherein the Preaching of the word of God is a principal Instrument. §. 4. Luke 8.11. 1 Pet. 2.2. Heb. 5.12, 13, 14. 1 God's word is not only seed (to be once sown) but food (to be often Ministered) milk for babes, and strong meat for men grown. As our bodies by corporal, so our souls by continual use of spiritual food, must grow, increase, and be strengthened. 2 Not only food, but wine, See psal. 119.49.50, 9●. 2 Cor. 1.4, 5. Acts 2.46 & 3.15.31. or medicine to comfort the fainting heart in all afflictions, in life or death. The believers did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart. And receiving letters from the Apostles, rejoiced for their consolation. 3 And for renewing of weak memories: 1 Pet. 1.12, 13. Rom. 15.14, 15. Phil. 3.1. 2. Thess. 2.5. St. Peter saith, he would not be negligent to put them always in remembrance, though they knew the things before, and were established in the present truth. The like saith Saint Paul to the Romans, Philippians, Thessalonians. Upon which last place Saint chrysostom Commenting saith thus much in effect, that we had need often to review, and renew the seed we have sown, cover it well from the Fowls of the air hedge and fence it from the beasts of the field, weed and water it, that it may grow, etc. 4 For preserving the doctrine of salvation, pure and sound from corruption, which may come into the Church by wicked teachers, and witless hearers. Some may teach other doctrine, and turn aside to vain jangling yea to lose faith and a good conscience; 1 Tim. 1.3, 6, 19 & 4.1. 2 Tim. 3.6, 7, 8. to departed from the faith, and give heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of Devils. Some creep into houses and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with diverse lusts: ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth; men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. And of witless hearer's Saint Paul saith also, 2 Tim. 4.3.4. The time will come, when men will not endure to hear sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves Teachers, having itching ears: and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will be turned unto Fables. To prevent which mischief, 2 Tim. 4.1, 2. Saint Paul (for an especial remedy) severely chargeth Timothy to preach the Word, be instant in season out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort, withal long suffering and doctrine. And gives him especial warning. To hold fast (the foundation) the form of sound words, 2 Tim. 1.13. which Saint Paul had taught him, in Faith and love, which is in Christ jesus. §. 5. These warnings which Saint Paul gave to Timothy, we shall find needful in all Churches, even in those of the new Testament, where the foundation was substantially laid by the Apostles themselves. Saint Paul had planted a glorious Church at Rome, Acts 28.30, 31 continuing there two years together in his own hired house, receiving all comers, and preaching the kingdom of God, no man forbidding him. He called them in his Epistle Beloved o● God, Rom. 1.7, 8. Saints and saith their Faith was spoken of throughout the whole world: Rom. ●5. 14. and that they were full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another. And yet Saint Paul was fain to admonish the same Romans, to mark them which caused divisions and offences, contrary to the Doctrine which they had heard and learned, and to avoid them. For such serve not our Lord jesus, but their own belly, and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. Rom. 16.17, 18 The same Saint Paul had planted a famous Church at Corinth continuing there a year and an half: so famous, that he said of it (1 Cor. 1.5) I thank God, that in every thing ye are enriched by God in all utterance and knowledge etc. But that Church of Corinth, which Paul had planted, Acts 18.11. Apollo watered, and God so increased, The Devil and wicked men corrupted both in life, 1 Cor. 5.1. to suffer such wickedness as was not so much as named among the Gentiles: and in doctrine to embrace such points as made the Apostles preaching vain, 1 Cor. 15.14, 19 and their faith vain; Yea and made Christians of all men most miserable. Wh●ch Saint Paul was fain laboriously to reform by writing two large Epistles unto them. The Galations erred so dangerously about the doctrine of justification, Gal. 5.2, 4. that Saint Paul told them if they reform it not, they were fallen from grace, and Christ profited them nothing. The Philippians had among them dogs, evil workers, Phil. 3.2, 18, 19 enemies to the cross of Christ, whose God was their belly, whose glory was in their shame, whose end was damnation: Of whom Saint Paul tells them weeping. Saint Paul praised the Colossians. Col. 1.3, 4, 6. Col. 2.8, 16, 21 22. yet he found it necessary to warn them of the danger of vain philosophy, traditions, worshipping of Angels, and other fruitless observations after the commandments and doctrines of men. He praised the Thessalonians also: 1 Thes. 1.2, 3. etc. & 2.13, 14. ib. cap. 3.7, 5. 2 Thes. 2.2, 3. Yet he found it fit to send Timothy to strengthen and comfort them, lest the tempter should by some means tempt them, and frustrate his labour. And by two Epistles he stirs them up to continuance and steadfastness in the truth, and gives them many good precepts of life. As he doth also in all his other Epistles to other Churches. The seven Churches of Asia had their imperfections, Reu. 2.4, 5. their dangers and their need of helps against them. Ephesus fell from her first love. verse 7. Smyrna dwelled by the Synagogue of Satan; Pergamus by Satan's seat, verse 13. in danger of Balaams' stumbling blocks, and the Nicolaitans hateful Doctrine. Thyatyra tempted by jezabels' fornication and Idols. verse 20. Sardis had a name to live, and was dead. Reu. 3.1. Philadelphia had but little strength. verse 8. verse 15. Laodicea was neither hot nor cold: thought all well, and knew not she was wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked. These Churches, to which (it may be presumed) all other may, in some sort more or less, be resembled and ranked; had the foundation well laid in them: but yet they stood in need of continual renewed instructions excitations, exhortations, consolations, armour against temptations, physic against diseases, and food against faintings: and consequently, of the Word of God (which is all these) to dwell plentifully among them, and duly and daily to be ministered unto them. I verily think, the want of frequenting our Sermons, is the cause that so many fall away to the Romish. It is the policy of your seducers, to keep them by all means from hearing and knowing the truth. 2. Thes. 2.10, 11, 12. Otherwise they could never be so blinded, to believe lies, to take Novelty for Antiquity, Idolatry for Gods worship treasons and massacres for holy acts: to take pleasure in unrighteousness, and be carried away with such other strong delusions and withal deceivableness of unrighteousness to their own perdidition: and not rather receive the love of the truth that they might be saved. Psal. 58.4, ●. These deaf Adders might be charmed, if they did not wilfully stop their ears against the voice of the Charmer, Heb. 4.12. & 2 cor. 10.4, 5. charm he never so wisely. For the word of God i● quick and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The fruit whereof you may see, where it is plentiful and graceously preached, observing how religious, devout, just, and truly honest, the people become; how temperate, sober, charitable upright dealing and blessed people, abhorring all sin, desirous and diligent to practise all good duties that tend to the honour of God, and the good of men. I do not think, but if your backsliders would carefully hear many of our Preachers, they would be (as Saint Paul saith) convinced of all, 2 Cor. 14.24, 25. and judged of all: & the very secrets of their hearts made manifest, and so falling down on their faces, would worship God, and report, that God is in the Preachers of a truth Antiquus. Oh Sir, so we think of our Priests; we reverence them as God's Angels, we hear them as sent from God, as God himself; or as men sent and endued with power from God, to teach us the true way to heaven; to absolve us from our sins, to offer up the real sacrifice of Christ's body and blood for us, and to give us the true natural body of Christ himself into our moothes to our eternal salvation. Which privileges your titulary Ministers have not; They are no Priests, they are mere secular men, without any power and authority from God to do any of these things. And therefore we have no reason to hear them: or to reverence them otherwise then we do other ordinary men, for their personal honesty or civility, not for their offices. You have therefore offered me just occasion to proceed and urge this thing, as CHAP. 5. Of the succession of the Protestants Bishops and Ministers from the Apostles. Section 1. The necessity thereof, urged, without which there can be no such Church. 2. This succession is clamourously denied to Protestants. 3. But manifestly proved, and the slanders confuted. 4. Particularly in Cranmer, our first Archbishop. 5. In other Bishops of King Henry 8 his time. 6. And of Edward 6. and of Queen Mary's time. 7. And of Queen Elizabeth's time. 8. The false reports hereof do alienate many from the Reformed Religion. 9 A proof of the sufficient ordination of Ministers in foreign Reformed Churches. 10. Which is further confirmed by the Doctrine and practice of the Romish. Section 1. Antiquus. ANother principal argument, to prove that you Protestants have no Church at all: because you have no Priests (or true Ministers) sent and authorized by the Lord. In urging whereof, give me leave somewhat to enlarge myself. Antiquissimus. Say what you will. I hope to give you a sufficient and satisfactory answer. Antiquus. First, there can be no Church without true Ministers to teach the holy Doctrine, to perform the holy service of God, and to minister the Sacraments unto God's people, and bring them to salvation. a Ephes. 4.8. etc. And therefore when our Saviour ascended into heaven, he gave all necessary gifts unto men, making Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers, for the work of the Ministry, gathering and perfecting of the Saints, and edifying of the Church, to continue (by succession) to the end of the world b Jb. verse 13. . That all might be kept from error, and united in the Truth. These are the Lords Ambassadors c 2 Cor. 5.18, 19, 20. , planters, waterers, husbandmen, builders; yea, co-adjutors, and workers-together-with God d 1 Cor 3.6, 9 . Secondly, therefore these Ministers must be furnished by the Lord with two things: 1 With authority to meddle with this holy service: 2 with power effectually to perform those ancient acts of gracious efficacy belonging to their office (as teaching of true saving doctrine forgiving of sins, and administering the admirable holy Sacraments) which no man of any other rank can do, and which they only can do who are sent of God, and furnished with his authority and power, and with whom God effectually worketh. To which end the Sacrament of Order, given to Priests by the hands of God's officers, imprints a Character in the Receiver, e Bellar. de sacram. in genere lib. 2. cap. 19 § propositio. sexta & § prop. tertia in sine. that wheresoever it is, God is present, * By Covenant or promise. ex pacto, and concurreth to the producing of supernatural effects, which he doth not, where his Character is wanting. Therefore when Christ sent his Apostles with this Commission, As my Father sent me, even so send I you f joh. 20.21, etc. : He breathed on them and said, Receive ye the Holy Ghost, whose sins soever ye remit, they are remitted unto them: and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. Where he gave them both Commission and power to perform it. And in the end of Saint Matthewes Gospel g Matth. 28, 18, 19, 20. , first mentioning his unbounded power both in heaven and earth: he sends his Apostles to teach, and bring the world into his subjection: adding, that he would be with them to the end of the world, to wit, with their persons while they live and with their successors while the world lasteth, with his power and effectual working with them. So that Christ must send, and he must furnish with gifts and power. And no man taketh to himself this office or honour, but he that is called of God as was Aaron h Heb. 5.4. . Thirdly then, As the Father sent the Son, and the Son his Apostles i joh 20.21. : so the Apostles k Bellar. De notis ecclesiae lib. 4. cap. 8. afterwards chose and ordained other Bishops, and gave them the like power to ordain others both Bishops and inferior Priests and Deacons, as Timothy at Ephesus, Titus in Crect l As appeareth by the Epistles to Tim & Tit. . By this means all true Bishops and Priests have their succession and ordination from hand to hand from the very Apostles. And none are to be accounted true Bishops, that were not ordained by the imposition of hands of former true Bishops, and they by other former, and so upwards ascending to the very Apostles, & to Christ jesus, from whom they must derive their authority and power for all works of the Ministry. Therefore Saint jerom saith m Hiero●ym. contra Luciferianos Ecclesia non est qua non habet sacerdotem. , It can be no Church that hath no Ministry. And Saint Cyprian, that the Church is nothing else but n Cypr. Plebs Episcopo adunata. lib. 4. ep. 10. citat. à Possevino. bibl. select. lib. 6. cap. 31. ad interrog. 4. & D. Field. Church. lib. 3. cap. 39 People united to the Bishop. And Tertullian further, o Tertull. lib. De prescript. Bellar. quo supra. Let Heretics show the original of their Churches, and run over the order of their Bishops, coming down by succession from the beginning so that their first Bishop had some Apostle or Apostolic man for his author and Predecessor. For thus the Church of the Romans reckons Clement, ordained by Saint Peter. And Saint Cyprian saith p Cypr. lib. 1. ep. 4. ad Magnum. Novatianus is not in the Church, neither can be accounted a Bishop, who contemning the Apostolic tradition, succeedeth no man, but is ordained of himself. The like have many other Fathers alleged by Bellarmine q Bellar. quo supra. . And by the Canons of the Apostles, and many ancient Counsels r So Bellarm. showeth l●o. citato. & D. Field. lib. 3. cap. 39 & lib. 5 cap. 36. . A Bishop must receive his Consecration by three Bishops at the least which were formerly consecrated in like manner. And all inferiors Ministers must receive orders of such a Bishop, or else they are not Canonical, Lawful, nor to be received. They that come in other ways then by this door, are thiefs and robbers s john 10.8.9, 10. . All this (describing, and proving the nature, succession and ordination of true Bishops and inferior Ministers) is the first proposition, or major of my Argument. Then comes my Assumption, or minor proposition, thus: But the Protestant Ministers are not such: 1 Kings 20.11 (namely, their Bishops were not consecrated by three Bishops, so formerly consecrated as abovesaid: neither did their inferior Ministers receive their orders from true Bishops.) The conclusion will necessarily follow: Ergo the Protestant Ministers are no true Ministers of the true Church. And consequently they have no true Church among them. An argument invinsible, unanswerable. Sect. 2. Antiquissimus. Good Sir, triumph not before the victory: let not him that putteth on his harness, boast himself, as he that putteth it off. It is your men's fashion first to confirm that with glorious words and arguments, which we stick not at (as you have done your Major) to make the world believe (it seems) that we denied all that which you so busily and so bravely prove, and so to make us odious. And your other fashion is as ill, to leave the main matter in controversy, utterly unproved (as here your Minor) thinking to carry it away with out facing, and great words. This is a charming and bewitching of the credulous world without all truth and honesty; As I shall make it plainly appear. For why else do your Rabbins so generally declaim against us and never prove it? Your 1 Bristol, Motive 21. Bristol, 2 Harding, confut. Apol. part. 2. cap 5. Harding, 3 Sanders de schis. lib. 3. pag. 299. Sanders, 4 Owlet brief discours●…ason 7. Owlet, 5 Card. Allen. with Rhemists, Annot in Rom. 10.15. Allen, with his Rhemists, 6 D. Stapleton princ. doctr. l. 13. cap. 6. Stapleton, 7 Doctor Kellison Reply to D. Sutclif. p. 31. Kellison, 8 Will. Rainolds Calvino-Turr. l. 4. c 15. p. 975. William Rainolds, 9 The Cath. Priests in their supplication to K. james, anno 1604. The number of Catholic Priests, 10 Bellar. eccles. milit. lib. 4. c. 8. Bellarmine, 11 Posnanienses assert. de Christi in terris ecclesia. thes. 60. Posnanienses, 12 Gregorius de Valentia tom. 4. disp. 9 q. 3. punct. 2. Valentianus, 13 Turrian de jure ordinand. lib. 2. c. 3. The like hath Turrianus, 14 Mattheus Lanoius, and Lanoius, 15 D. Tyreus cited by Schaltingiu●●ib. cathol. t. 4. pag. 33. The words of these author's you may see in the book of Mr. Francis Mason. lib. 1. cap. 2. Tyreus? and other not worth the reckoning without measure or end. Why do they so bitterly inveigh against our Bishops and Ministers (leaving their Doctrine and discrediting their calling, to make people forsake them) as men unsent, uncalled, unconsecrated, without successiion ordination or jurisdiction, yea calling them false prophets, invaders, usurpers, and other Apostates from the Church or Rome or mere Laymen: but neither true Bishops nor Ministers at any hand. Which they only say, and repeat, and affirm with great vehemency, but never prove. Sect. 3. Antiquus. Yes, they prove it too. * Christ. a Sacrobosco de Invost. Christi eccl. cap. 4. Sacroboscus reports the story of the Consecration of the Bishop jewel, Sands, Scory, Horn, Grindal, and others, who met at a Tavern or Inn in Cheapside (called the Horsehead) in the beginning of Queen Elizabeth's reign: & being disappointed of the Catholic Bishop of Landaffe, who should there have been to consecrate them: some of them imposed hands upon Scory, & he upon the rest: and so were sons made without a father, and the father procreated by the sons. Thus saith Sacroboscus adding that one Thomas Neal, Hebrew Lecturer at Oxford, (who was present) told this to his old confessors and they told it to Sacroboscus, and that afterward it was enacted in Parliament, that these men should be accounted lawful Bishops. The same story is also reported in a Preface to a Catholic book called. A discussion, numb. 135. citing Sacraboscus for it. And thus (saith that Preface) they used the like Art that the Lollards once did in another matter, who being desirous to eat flesh on Good Friday, and yet fearing the penalty of the Laws, took a Pig, and diving it under the water, said, Down Pig, and up Pike: and then after constantly avouched that they had eaten no flesh but fish. So these caused him who kneeled down john jewel, to rise up Bishop of Sali●bury: and him that was Robert Horn before, to rise up Bishop of Winchester: and so forth with all the rest. Antiquissimus. I wonder that men of any foreheads are not ashamed to vent such fantastical and false tales, which are confuted fully by the public Records and Registers of those times. Bishop jewel published his answer to Hardings objections, threescore years agone (Anno Dom. 1567.) wherein he plainly showeth f Jewels Defence of the Apology 2. part. cap. 5, printed anno Dom. 1567. that himself and all our other Bishops succeeded the Bishops that had been before them, and were elected, consecrated and confirmed, as they were. So that your learned men have had time enough to read, search, consider, and confute, or be satisfied: and not still thus wickedly to proclaim to the world such falsities. And Master Francis Mason hath done it more thoroughly in a complete Treatise g Of the consecration of the Bishops in England: and ordination of Priests and Deacons. Five books printed Anno Dom. 1613. Ex Register. Park. 1. fol. 18. & fol. 39 (printed anno Don. 1613.) who showeth out of the Register books of the Archbishops of those times, among all other, the Consecrations of these Bishops whom your Catholic scoffers thus deprave. 1 B. Scory was consecrated August 30. anno 1551. in the time of Edw. 6 by Archbishop Cranmer, Nicholas London, and john Bedford. 2 3 B B. Grindall and Sauds were consecrated both upon one day, the 21 of December, anno 1559. being the Sabbath day, and in the forenoon, in the Chapel at Lambehith: by Matthew, Archbishop of Canterbury, William Cicester, john Hereford, and John Bedford, Master Alexander Nowell, the Archbishop's chaplain, then preaching upon this Text, Acts 20.28. Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock whereof the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers: and a Communion reverently administered by the Archbishop. 4 B. jewel was consecrated, jan. 21. 1559. being the Sabbath day, in the forenoon, in the Chapel of Lambehith: by Matthew, Archbishop of Canterbury, Edmund Grindal, Ib. fol. 46. Bishop of London, Richard Gox, Bishop of Ely, and john Hodskius, Bishop of Bedford: with Common prayers, Communion, & a Sermon preached by Master Andrew Pierson, the Archbishop's chaplain, upon this Text, Matt. 5.16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven. Ib. fol. 88 5 B. Horn was consecrated, Febr. 16. 1560. being the Sabbath day, in the forenoon, in the Chapel at Lambehith, in all respects as the former, by Matthew, Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Bishop of Saint David's, See also Annals of Q. Elizabeth, Engl. Darcy. pag. 32. Edmund, Bishop of London, & Thomas B. of Coventry and Lichfield, which I do thus punctually relate, that the world may be satisfied thoroughly, and wonder at the impudence of these forgers of lies, and at the folly of their believers. Antiq. I doubted always of that unlikely tale of the Consecration of the Nagshead, depending only upon the report of one sole witness, Thomas Neal, an obscure man, and telling it in darkness: and now I am fully resolved out of public Records by you alleged, easy to be sought and scarched, that it is utterly false. But if it be granted that all these Bishops mentioned in that tale, were orderly consecrated by 3 Bishops at the least, according to the Canons: how may it appear that those other Bishops which consecrated them, were themselves true Bishops? Show me how your first Reforming Bishops (as you call them) which upon the banishing of the Pope's authority by K. H 8 consecrated the fallowing Bishops) were consecrated themselves by lawful Bishops their Predecessors, and then you say something. All this out of Mr. Mason lib. 2. cap. 7. & Antiq. Brit. pag. 321, 322. & Act. & Mon. Sect. 4. Antiquissimus. Our first reformed Bishop was Thomas Cranmer: who had been sent before by King Henry to the Pope with other Ambassadors, who delivered to the Pope a book of his own writing wherein he proved by scriptures, Fathers and Counsels, that no mortal man had power to give a dispensation for a man to marry h●s brother's wife: and told the Pope they had brought also other learned men out of England, which were ready by dispensation to maintain it. The Pope promised sundry times a day of disputation: but after many delays, giving them good entertainment, he made Cranmer his penitentiary, and dismissed them. Then the rest returning, Cranmer was sent by the King's appointment Ambassador into Germany to the Emperor, where he drew many to his side and among the rest, Cornelius Agrippa. While he was in Germany; Archbishop Warhan died: and the K. sent for Cranmer, to make him Archbishop of Canterbury: who delayed his return, partly for business, and partly for conscience and fear that he should be urged to receive the Bishopric as from the Pope's Donation, when the right or Donation was in the King; As he plainly told the King after his coming home. But yet the matter was so handled, that both with the Kings and the pope's consent, Cranmer was made Archbishop. There are many letters from the pope, so●● to the King, some to Cranmer, in favour of Cranmer, recorded in the Register of Cranmer, fol. 1, 2, 3. and related in Master Masons Book, lib. 2. cap 6. Whereof one for his Consecration runs thus: Clement, Bishop 〈◊〉 our well-beloved son, Thomas, elect of Canterbuty; We● grant he e●c● to thee, that thou m●●st ●●●eiue the gift of Consecration of whatsoever Catholic Prelate thou wilt, so he enjoy the favour and communion of the Apostolic See, two or three Bishops enjoying the like favour and communion being sent for, and assisting him in this business, Dat. Bovon. 1532. Pontificatus numeri decimo. And he was accordingly consecrated, March, 30. 1533 (24. H. 8.) by three Bishops, to his Lincoln, John Exon, H●y●ry Assaph. I hope there can be no quarrel picked against this Consecration. The most busy-headed jesuite of our times, Robert Parsons, acknowledgeth Cranmer a true Bishop, in his three Conversions, part. 3. pag. 340. Antiquus. But did not Cranmer take the oath to the Bishop of Rome at his Consecration, as his predcessors had done, and afterwards broke it? Sanders de schis. lib. 1 cap. 58. Mason lib. 2. cap. 7. Ex Regist. Cran. fol. 4. b. Antiquissimus. Indeed your D. Sanders so slanders him: as if he had taken it simply and absolutely: which he did not, but with a protestation often made and repeated plainly and publicly, first in the Chapter-house: secondly, kneeling before the high Altar, in the hearing of the Bishops and people at his consecration: thirdly, in the very same place, and in the very same words, when by Commission from the Pope, they delivered him the Pall. The sum of the protestation was this. That he intended not to bind himself to any thing which was contrary to the Law of God, or contrary to the King or Common, wealth of England, or the Laws and prerogatives of the s●me, nor to restrain his own liberty to speak, consult, or consent, in all and every thing concerning the Reformation of Christian Religion, the Government of the Church of England, and the prerogative of the Crown, or the commodity of the Commonwealth. And every where to execute and reform such things, which he should think fit to be reform in the Church of England. And according to this interpretation, and this sense, and no otherwise, he professed and protested, that he would take the oath. Sect. 5. Antiquus. Well, I am satisfied for Cranmer. What say you to the rest of that time? for he alone could not consecrate. Antiquissimus. I say first, the Bishops in King Henry's time which had been consecrated before the renouncing of the pope's authority, lost not their power of consecrating afterwards. For their Character is indelible, and cannot be nullified by schism, heresy, or censure of the Church: being a thing imprinted in the soul by God, and not by Man: as the Counsels h Concil. of Florence & Trent. cited by Bellar. De Sacram. in genere lib. 2. cap. 19 and your own Doctors i Bellarmine in the same chapter, & De Rom. pont. lib. 4. c. 10. § Respondeo. falsissimum esse in fine. he saith, Quis ignorat Catholicorum, baptizatos ab Haereticis verè esse baptizatos? & similiter ordinatos vere esse ordinatos, quando ordinator vere episcopus fuerat, adhuc erat saltem quantum ad Characterem. teach. Secondly, I say, that by the Statutes made in the 25 year of King Henry 8, it was ordained that every Bishop should be consecrated by three former Bishops, and with all due ceremonies. And this is acknowledged by your k De schis. lib. 3 pag. 296. D. Sanders: and was duly performed in all Consecrations: as of Cranmer of Canterbury, 1533. Lee of Lichfield, 1534. Brown Archbishop of Dublin, 1535. Wharton of Assaph, 1536. Holgate of Landaffe, 1537. Holbecke of Bristol, 1537. Thurlby of Westminster, 1540 Wakeman of Gloucester, 1541. Bucklsy of Bangor, 1541. Bush of Bristol, 1542. Kitchen of Landaffe, 1545. Every one consecrated by three Bishops, at the least, and with all due ceremonies. So that of King Henry's time (both by the statute De jure, and by Records De facto) you may be fully resolved, that (according to your own rules) all were true Bishops that were consecrated either before or after the schism (as you call it.) and so they were acknowledged that lived still in Queen Mary's time, they that had been thus consecrated in King Henry's time, were acknowledged (I say) by all your Catholics, and by the Pope himself, to be rightly consecrated neither needed they any new consecration, as B. Bover, Bishop Thurlby, and Cardinal Pole. But Thurlby made Bishop of Westminster in King Henry's time, was translated to Norwich by King Edward, and to Ely by Queen Mary and made of her privy Council. And Anthony Kitchen made Bishop of Landaffa, in King Henry's time, so continued in King Edward and Queen Mary's time, and till his death in the fift year of Queen Elizabeth, without any new orders or consecration, the first being sufficient, and in all times undoubted. Also Reginal Poole Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Watson, David Pole, john Christoferson, made Bishops in Queen Mary's time, derived their Consecration from Bishops which were made in the time of the pretended schism, and some of them from Cranmer himself. Now than if you allow them for Canonical, you must allow their consecrators also to be Canonical. Sect. 6. King Henry's Bishops then being thus cleared come we to King Edward's time, wherein, the Bishops formerly made and then continuing are cleared also to be truly Consecrated: and the Priests also formerly made, and continuing in King Edward's time must be acknowledged to be rightly ordered, and therefore to be capable of consecration to be made Bishops, as were Ridley, Hooper, Ferrar. These therefore being consecrated by three Bishops became true Canonical Bishops and so were all throughout King Edward's days, as appeareth both by your Doctor Sanders confession l Sanders de schism. lib. 3. pag. 297. . And by our public Records or Registers m Extracted & published in Mr. Masons book. . Ridley, 1547. Ferrar 1549. Hooper 1550. Poynet, 1550. Scory and Coverdale, 1551. In whose consecrations good and fit prayers were used, and all necessary ceremonies, as of imposition of hands, etc. Avoiding only unnecessary, superfluous & superstitions Ceremonies (as we call them) which your own men confess to be accidental things only, and not touching the essence of orders: without which orders may well stand and be perfect enough. Of Queen Mary's time you make no doubt: all was according to your mind: all the Bishops and Priests were true and Canonical: and might well deliver the like to posterity: I speak this ex concessis. And of Queen Elizabeth's time you have as little reason to doubt. Sect. 7. Antiq. Yes, for in the very beginning of Queen Elizabeth's time, some Bishops were deprived, See Arn●ls of Elizabeth Engglish Dar●● pag. 32. and the rest denied to consecrate new ones. So that for the consecration of D. Parker Archbishop of Canterbury, there could not be found Bishops to do it, D. Sanders saith you had neither 3 nor 2 Bishps to do it: D. Kellison saith you could find none. Antiquissimus. This is a shameless untruth. For when the Dean and Chapter had elected D. Parker for their Archbishops according to the ancient and inviolated custom of the Church (as the Record n Register Mat. Parker. saith) the Queen sent her letters Patents to seven Bishops, giving commission that they, or at least four of them should consecrate him, &c And four of them did it accordingly the 17 of December 1559. To wit William Barlow, and john Hodgskins both made Bishops in King Henry's Days, and John Scory, and Miles Coverdale, made Bishops in King Edward's days. Antiq. There may be some doubt whether these were Bishops or no, because they fled and left their Bishoprickes in Queen Mary's days, and other Bishops were placed in their rooms. Antiquissimus. These prelates did but as Athanasius and many other holy Bishops did in the dangerous times of the domineering Arrians, Matth. 10. ●3. who according to Christ's precept fled to save their lives and reserve their gifts to better times. But as Athanasius and those ot●er Bishops, were still accounted the true Bishops: and those that were set up in their rooms were accounted usurpers, and put down, when those better times came, and the other true Bishops restored to their places: so at the coming of Elizabeth's happy times, these Bishops that fled were recalled returned, and restored to their former places: or preferred to other. Now except you will condemn that most worthy Athanasius (and the other) for no Bishops in the time of their exile, when others had their places: you cannot reject these worthy men as no Bishops, their case being the same with those ancient Bishops. And of all other, you should least quarrel at these things. For you know there are many in your Roman Church, both Bishops and Priests, which have no particular places, Bishoprickes or Benefices, and yet you account them true Bishops and Priests. Such was Olaus Magnus, Archiepiscopus Vpsalensis o Gentil. in Examine. : and blind Robert, Archiepiscopus Armachanus p Jdem ib. . Who both were sent by the Pope to the Council of Trent, to fill up the number of Bishops q Sleidan. come. lib. 17. . And Robert King, entitled Episcopus Roanensis r Goodwin Catalogo. , in the Archbishopric of Athens in Grecia, under the Turk, and many the like: And your innumerable Priests without Benefices sent into England and other Countries. Your own Bellarmine saith, s Bellar. De Sacram. conf. lib. 2. cap. 12. in fine. Respondeo Suffraganeos esse verè episcopos, quia & ordinationem habent, & iurisdictionem, licet careant possessione pro priae ecclesia. They are true Bishops which have ordination and jurisdiction, though they want the possession of their proper Church. And this also warranteth our Suffragan Bishops (whereof we had some in later times) who had both due consecration by three Bishops, and also jurisdiction, though not very large as other Bishops had t By the statute of 26. H. 8. c. 14. . Antiquus. Since you have so well satisfied me of Archbishop Parker's consecration, (when true Bishops, willing to put to their hands, were so hard to be found) I need not doubt of the rest of all the Bishops the in more plentiful reigns of Queen Eliz●beth or King james: since D. Sanders u Sanders de schism lib. 3. pag 297. confesseth that the Law of King Henry 8 for consecration by three Bishops, was revived by Queen Elizabeth, and standeth in force: and hath been very duly observed in these later times. Antiquissimus. If you desire yet fuller satisfaction, you may see the Consecrations of the Bishops in both these Princes reigns set down largely in Master Masons book; together with a derivation of the Episcopal line from the Bishops of King Henry 8 (which you acknowledge to be Canonical) unto George, now Lord Archbishop of Canterbury; with the days and years when every of them and their Consecrators were consecrated, ever more by three former Bishops, and sometimes by four, or more. I conclude with Bishop Andrew's answer to Bellarmine: Eliensis Responsio ad Bellarmini Apologiam contra Praefationem monitoriam jacobi Regis cap. 7. pag. 168. Our Bishops have been always ordained by three true Bishops. Bishops, not (as you sometimes against the Canons) by abbots. Also by true Bishops, even your Bishops (except yours be not true) This Canon was never violated by us, nor that order ever interrupted. And in our Bishops there is res Episcopi, non nomen solum; et opus, non opes, the office and not only the benefice. Which they perform much more frequently and diligently than yours do. Sect. 8. Antiquus. I have been very much wronged and abused with the contrary opinion which our teacherr hold so confidently, and urge so vehemently, with such seeming certain knowledge of the truth, that I thought it a shame to doubt of it. And I confess, it was one principal cause of my alienation from hearing or regarding your Ministers whom otherwise I knew to be very honest and learned men. Antiquissimus. You may see by this, how men's minds leavened with malice will Imagine evil without cause: and how mightily their passions and affections transport them to receive vain surmises for truest oracles, and vent them for arguments unanswerable. This may occasion you to suspect their dealing in other things. And as you do wisely and religiously to yield to the manifest truth, grieving that you have been abused by the unskilful or deluded by the wilful evil teachers: so (I hope) when others see the same truth they will be stayed from falling: and they that have fallen, be restored to the bosom of their natural mother: and the deceivers themselves be confounded and ashamed of the books they have so falsely written; and all Godly people be confirmed in the truth so manifestly cleared from forgeries which obscured it. All which I hope the rather, because the Papist prisoners in Framlingham castle in Queen Elizabeth's time said to the Protestant Ministers: if you can justify your calling, we will all come to your Church, and be of your Religion r Mason lib. 1. cap. 3. in fine pag. 20. . Sect. 9 Antiquus. Well Sir, be it that your English Clergy was canonically ordained and consecrated; yet what say you to the Protestant Ministers in other countries, which could have no Bishops to ordain them? But (as our learned men say) they ordained one another very disorderedly and insufficiently. Antiquissimus. You draw me to a Digression impertinent to the Church of England, to speak of other countries, in whose affairs I am not sufficiently acquainted, and am loath to meddle. It may be your learned men wrong them, as they have done us. But if what they say, be true; It was your Pope's fault so averse from all reformation, that did drive the Reformers in those countries to that necessity that either one Minister must ordain another, or else the Churches must be without many profitable Ministers. By the way; because you dislike our word Minister, as we do your word Priest, used in your sense for sacrificing Priest. (Though the word Minister be used by the b Bellar. de Rom. pont. li. 3 cap. 13 pag. 392. § Ratio autem cur, Apostoli in Scriptures nunquam vocant sacerdotes Christianos', sacerdotes, sed solum episcopos & presbyteros. Apostles in the New Testament, for Ministers of the Gospel: and the word Priest, never used at all by them; no, nor by the most ancient Fathers, as c Bellar, decultu Sanctorum lib. 3. cap. 4. § Ad testimonium Patrum dico, pag. 275. See before chap. 2. § 2. Bell. himself confesseth) I will (to avoid offence to both) use the word Presbyter: (which the Apostles used, and which I see our late learned writers do more willingly frequent) to signify such as have taken full orders in the Church of God. But note you also by the way, that our fault is very small, in using sparingly the terms of some later Fathers, and using commonly the words of the Apostles: yours is very great, in forsaking and deriding the word of the B B. Apostles, and preferring the words of some Fathers, and using them contrary to their meaning. But, Then I doubt not to affirm that Orders given to Presbyters by Presbyters only, in times of necessity, when Bishops cannot be procured to give them, are of full validity, and sufficiency. For, the giving of orders was appointed to Bishops, not of absolute necessity, but for their greater honour, and for the better government and preservation of peace and unity in the Church, and for those and the like reasons, it is fit, that course be observed, when possibly it may. But when it cannot: we must consider, that even Bishops themselves do not give orders by any other power than is found in any other Presbyter. Not by their power of jurisdiction (for they may ordain Presbyters living out of their jurisdiction:) but by virtue of their orders only: whereby they stand Presbyters. Which is manifest by this, that Bishops and Suffragans which are not Presbyters, cannot give orders which they never received: therefore seeing the power of giving orders, is from the virtue of the orders formerly received (which virtue is in every presbyter, as well as in a Bishop: and therein Priests, Bishops, and Popes are all equal d See D. Field. lib. 3. cap. 39 in medio. alleging many Schoolmen to this purpose. .) Then for want of Bishops to give orders, Presbyters may give them. For that is but a breach of decency and honourable conveniency, whereby that thing is tied to some chief Presbyters (namely to Bishops) which otherwise all Presbyters may do. But to the validity of the orders it maketh nothing, what Presbyter soe●er giveth them. The best learned in the Church of Rome in former times agreed to this. A●machanus e Armachanus lib. 11. in 4. Armenorum cap. 7. , a worthy Bishop saith, If all Bishops failed by death, (Sacerdotes minores possent Episcopum ordinare,) Inferior Priests might ordain a Bishop. And Alexander of Hales f Halensi● part. 4. q. 9 memb. 5. art. 1 cited by D. Field. ib. saith. that many learned men in his time and before, were of opinion, that in some cases, and in some times, Presbyters may give orders, and that their ordinations are of force: though to do so, not being urged by extreme necessity, cannot be excused from overgreat boldness and presumption. And why not orders by ordinary presbyters, as well as Baptism by meaner persons? For your Doctors in times of necessity allow Baptism (which is a principal Sacrament) to be administered not only by Bishops and Priests, but by Deacons, or any Laiks' Baptised, yea Laiks unbaptized, and very Pagans, (if they knew and preforme the Rites of Baptism) and women also: by any person that is Homo rationalis and intendeth to do as the Church would do. The Baptism preformed by them is sufficient, effectual, and needs no rebaptisation, as Bellermine teacheth at large g Bellarm. de baptismo. lib. 1. cap. 7. . If this will not suffice, you may see more in Doctor Fields h D. Field. lib. 3. cap. 39 & lib. 5. cap. 56. and Master Masons books i Mason lib. 1. . Sect. 10. Antiquus. Sir you may not think that your private Reason and judgement can oversway the judgement and determinations of grave, learned, and holy counsels. Antiquiss. Far be from me the presumption to think so. Yet give us leave to see what we see and to say what we know, we see it in your own learned men's books, and know it to be your own practice, oftentimes to break the Canons, both of ancient Counsels and of the Apostles. If Protestants do it in times of necessity, condemn them not, for necessity hath no law, it is so great a tyrant, that it will not suffer the Law to stand. Your men are fain sometimes to yield unto it. Your k This appears plainly by Greg. Epistles lib. 12. jud. 7. epist. 31. rectified by Bede of D. Stapletons' own judicious edition & translation, though other copies somewhat differ. See Mason lib. 2. cap. 5. pag. 61. Gregory the great Bishop of Rome, sending Augustine the Monk into England (who was not until afterward made B●shop of Canterbury) appointed him to ordain the first Bishops himself alone, in case the Briton Bishops opposed him, and that of the English or Saxons there were no Bishops, and that the French Bishops would be slack and uncertain of aiding him. And accordingly himself alone, ordained Melitus the first Bishop: and by the assistance of Melitus only, he ordained justus the second: and when there was a Canonical number, than they observed the number of three to consecrate others. In like manner your Baronius l Baronius anno 555. n. 10. sticks not to record that pope Pelagius the first, was consecrated by two Bishop only (when more could not be procured) and a Priest. And yet was he accounted a good lawful Bishop: and in his time he ordained 29 Priests, and 49 Bishops. If his consecration were a nullity, than so were all theirs, and all other consecrated by them: and so there followed a world of nullities in the Church of Rome. Euagrius Patriarch of Antioch, was consecrated by Paulinus alone, and yet accounted a lawful Bishop, n joannes Mayor in 4. Sent. dist. 24. q. 3. inter opera Gerson. Paris. 1606. pag. 681. as m Theodoret lib. 5. cap. 23. Theodoret showeth. Joannes Maior, a Doctor of Paris, saith that Rusticus and Eleutherius who came into France with Dionysius were not Bishops; But Dionysius alone ordained the Bishops of France. He saith also, o Maior quo supra. who ordained Peter? they will not find us three ordainers. Therefore I say it is an humane constitution that a Bishop shall be ordained by three. S. Paul did not seek for two more for the ordination of Titus and Timothy. And Petrus de Palude p Petrus De Palude De potestate Apostol cited by B. jewel Defence. 2 part. cap 5 division 1. p. 130 saith one Bishop, is sufficient to consecrate another, and it is only for the greater solemnity a devise of the Church, that three shall concur. This is therefore no essential part, but an accidental ornament of the Consecration: a compliment of honourable conveniency, fit to be used where it may be had; no substantial point of absolute necessity, making a nullity of consecration where it wanteth. The like may be said of orders to be given by 〈◊〉 Bishop only. Pope Gelasius saith q Gelasius epist. 9 B●n. t. 2. pag. 243. Priscis pro sua reverentia manentibus cons●itutis, qua ubi nulla vel rerum vel temporum per urget necessitas, regulariter convenit custodire. when no necessity of things or times compel to the contrary, it is fit reverently to keep the ancients constitutions. So saith Leo also r Cited by joh. 8. epist 8. Bin. c. 3. pa●t. 2. pag. 977. Omittendum esse & inculpabile iudicandum, quod intulit necessitas. , but he addeth, that may be omitted and judged unblameable which necessity enforceth. And Foelix s Ib. apud Bin. Aliter tractanda● necessitatis rationem, aliter voluntatis. the respect of necessity is to be handled one way, the respect of voluntary mind another way. Andradius affirmeth t Andrad. De gen. conciliorum autoritate. pag. 115, 116. that humane laws made upon the best counsel and advice, are varied by the variety of times, and may be inverted and changed by the necessities of men, and so are dispensable whereupon Saint Austen u Aug. De lib. arb. cap. 6. calls humane laws temporal, because though they be just, yet they may be justly changed according to the times. Binius saith x Bin. t. 2. p. 243 in mark Pro temporum necessitate rigour canonum relaxatur. Haec pleraque apud Mason. Canon's Apostolorum 85. cum Ioannis Monachizonare commentarijs, set ●ut in Latin by I●. Quintinus Haeduus printed with Zonaras and others at Frankford, by Fa●rubendiu● 1587. according to the necessity of the times, the Rigour of the Canons is released. But you make this necessity of times fare larger than Protestants may, for of the Canons of the Apostles you broke some willingly, yea you decree the contrary and make it unlawful to keep them, as the fift Canon that saith that Bishops or Priests that put away their wives for occasion of Religion, shall be excommunicated: and the ninth Canon, which will have them excommunicated also that after hearing the Scriptures and prayers, depart and do not with other faithful receive the communion, This Canon, and that of thrice dipping in Baptism (the 49 or 50 Canon) and diverse other, are abolished contraria consuetudine saith your Canus y Canus De l●cis theol. lib. 3. cap 5. pag. 195. . Christ's Doctrine (saith he) may not be changed but must stand firm: but the Apostles Rules for the government of the Church are not so fixed but they may be removed. And your Michael Medi●a saith z Medina lib. 5. de sacrorum hom: continentia cap. 106. as D. Reinolds allegeth him. Defence, Thes. 5. Morton appeal. lib. 2. c 25. sect. 10. that of the 84. Canons of the Apostles, which Clement Bishop of Rome and the Disciples of the same Apostles gathered together, scarce doth the Latin Church observe 6 or 8 entirely. But (as I said) you draw me from our own Country into others: and yet thereby you gain nothing: for if they be censured for their necessary and inevitable breach of some ancient Church Canons, to maintain the substance of Christ's Doctrine; much more must you be condemned for breaking them ordinarily and wilfully without necessity. And on the other side, if their Ministry be cleared though necessity hath enforced the breach of some Canonical circumstance: then much more is ours of England cleared, who never found any such necessity, nor ever broke them. Nay we have evermore observed them fare more precisely than you have done that thus accuse us, and boast of your strictest own observations. CHAP. 6. Of the Pope's supremacy over the whole Church. Section 1. The necessity thereof urged, § 2 As the main pillar: the matter and method of the answer propounded. § 3 The ancient Church yielded to Rome (the greatest City of the world) to have the dignity of one of the five Patriarches. § 4 And among them sometime the chiefest place. § 5 Which dignity their ambition and covetousness have impaired. § 6 Bellarmine gathering the strength of all learned Writers, showeth no strength in them to maintain the Papacy; either by urging, Mat. 16.18. § 7 Or joh. 21.15, etc. § 8 The Romish strange extractions out of the words, Feed my Sheep. § 9 And vain allegations of diverse other Scriptures. § 10 The Scripture is against the supremacy of Peter, § 11 The Fathers urged for it in vain. § 12 The Fathers are against it. § 13 St Peter's prerogatives descended not to his successors. § 14 The conclusion; collecting the parts of the chapter briefly, and justifying the Protestants. §. 1. Antiq. I Am satisfied, that your Ministers have true succession from the Apostles, and ordination according to the Canons. And for the present, I will suppose, that all that you have said is true; that your Church hath had a visible succession derived from the Apostles without interruption: that it delivereth all the substantial points of doctrine necessary to salvation, sufficiently. Suppose all this; and yet further: Suppose that in the Church of Rome there are some things now taught and used, which were not in the Primitive Church; as the use of Images, Purgatory, Indulgence, the doctrine of transubstantiation, Communion of the Laity in one species, private Masses, and such like; yet all this cannot prove yours to be the true Church, nor the Roman to be false; because yet you are defective in this: That the Church being one only true, entire body of jesus Christ, you are separate from it, and will not be under the government of that visible-hood, which Christ hath appointed over it, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, the successor of Saint Peter; to whom is given the highest jurisdiction and government of the whole Church upon earth, and the infallibility of judgement to guide it right, and keep it from error; so that they that are not under his government and guidance, are out of the Church, in which salvation is to be found, and no where else. Neither can the things now used, which were not used in the Primitive Church, any way nullify or disgrace the Church, since in the wisdom of him, that is infallibly assisted by the holy Ghost, for the guidance of the Church, they are judged profitable in these times, which were not so necessary in former ages. All inferior and private spirits must submit to the judgement of that Head, whom Christ hath constituted over his Church, and doth assist with his spirit that he shall not err. That Saint Peter was made Prince and Head of the Apostles by our Saviour Christ; the Proofs are plain in the Scriptures, and Fathers. Mat. 16.16. In the 16. of Saint Matthew, when Saint Peter had confessed, Thou art Christ the son of the living God: Christ answered, Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock will I build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. To thee will I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven, to open and shut, to bind and lose. In the 21 of S. john, Christ saith to Peter, joh. 21.15. Since thou lovest me more than these (the rest of the Apostles) Feed my Sheep: Be thou the general Pastor over my whole flock, even over the rest of the Apostles. In the 22. of Saint Luke, Christ saith, I will pray for thee Peter, that thy faith shall not fail; Luk. 22.32. and when thou art converted, strengthen thy Brethren. Conformable to these Scriptures the Fathers do ordinarily give unto Saint Peter the Primacy of the Apostles; call him the Mouth, the Chief, the Top, the Highest, the Prince, the Precedent of the Apostles, the head and foundation of the Church; all which laid together and well considered, do prove such a prerogarive in Saint Peter, that the Church taught and guided by him and his Successors, shall never err in matters of Faith and good life, but be infallibly lead into all truth, that bringeth to holiness and happiness. And this is not promised to Saint Peter's person, or for his life only, but to all his Successors, when Christ promiseth to be with them to the end of the world, Mat. 28. in the last words. Whereupon these things will follow: 1 That the Church of Rome, See the Relation of the Religion in the West parts. pag. 15. now governed by S. Peter's Successors, is undoubtedly the true Church of God, delivering and practising the true means of salvation, and hath the prerogative to keep men from erring in matters of Faith, and from falling from God; hath the keys of heaven in custody, to admit in by indulgence such as shall be saved; and shut out by excommunication such as shall be condemned; so that in it there is a happy facility, and without it an utter impossibility of salvation. 2 And consequently, It is of the necessity to salvation, that all particular Churches, and all men, be subject to the Bishop thereof, Christ's Vicar, and the visible head of the Catholic Church upon earth; and whosoever, or what Nation or people soever, are not subject to him in spiritual things, are no part of the Catholic Church of Christ. §. 3. Antiquis. Were all this true and substantial, it were able to charm all the world to be of your Church, and to make the Pope absolute Lord of all. And you do politicly to keep this point for your last refuge, and final ground of all controversies betwixt us: for if you can evict this, you need no more. If your Popes be Saint Peter's successors in all those things which you ascribe unto Saint Peter, and thereby have full jurisdiction over the whole Christian world, and cannot err, all is yours, Stapleton principio. doctr. lib 6. cap. 2. Sanders Rock of the Church. Bristol Motive 47. etc. See Bellarm. letter to Blackwell. there is an end of all controversy and disputation. And therefore your Chieftains have great reason to fortify this piece with all the art and artillery their wit, learning, and power can afford them: thereby to cut off all particular controversies wherein they find we are too strong for them. This Gorgon's head alone is able to affright the simple, that they shall not believe their own eyes, or see your palpable corruptions, or believe that any thing can be amiss with you, be it never so foul and and manifest. But alas (dear friend) I shall show you plainly that all this is but an Imaginary Castle built in the Air without ground or foundation; and that all your men stretch the Scriptures and the sayings of the Fathers fare beyond their meaning. B. jewel. B. Bilson. B. Morton. B White. D. Rainolds. D. Field. etc. To answer their books and arguments punctually, would ask too great time, and be a needless labour, because our Learned men have done it sufficiently and often already. But for your satisfaction, I will show you, first, what dignity the ancient Church hath yielded to the Bishop of Rome: Secondly, that the Supremacy now claimed cannot be proved to be given to Saint Peter either by the Scriptures, or thirdly by the Fathers; but contrary, that both the Scriptures and Fathers are against it. Fourthly, that the true primacy and Prerogatives of Saint Peter above the rest of the Apostles, were personal, and did not descend to his successors. §. 3. 1. For the first: Aeneas Silvius (who was afterterwards made Pope, Aeneas Silvius epist. 288. Ante concilium Niceness cue sque sibi vivebat, & paruus respectus habebatur ad ecclesiam Romanam and called Pius Secundus) saith plainly, that before the Council of Nice (327. years after Christ) little respect was had to the Church of Rome, yet was Rome the chief City of the world, by reason of the Antiquity, Magnificence, Dominion, and the residence of the Emperors there at that time. The Apostles used to plant Churches in the chiefest Cities, from whence the Gospel might best be propagated into the Country's adjoining. City's therefore were first Christians, the people dwelling in Country Pagis & Villis (in Pages and Villages) being not converted, See D. Field. Church, book 5. epist to the Reader, & cap. 27. 30, 31. were called Pagans or Infidels. But for their conversion, and for the better government of the Church, Bishops were by the Apostles placed in the Cities, with power of jurisdiction to govern, and of Ordination to institute Ministers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in every town; as was Timothy in Ephesus, Titus in Crete. If any difficulty arose either in doctrine or government too great to be ordered by these Bishops; the wise policy of the Church ordained it should be referred to the determination of higher Bishops called Archbishops, that is, chief Bishops, Metropolis in the Greek tongue signifies a Mother City. by some fatherly authority over the other Bishops and Clergy, or being Bishops of the chiefest or Mother Cities within the Nation, whereof they were called Metropolitans. And over these Archbishops or Metropolitans in several Lands or Nations some one was made the Primate, for better unity and commodity of government, and calling together and guiding of National Counsels upon occasions. It was thought convenient also for the better keeping of all Christian Nations in the unity of Faith, Holiness and peace, to appoint yet a higher degree of Patriarches in some of the most eminent Cities of the world, who might have some oversight & authority over all the Primats, Archbishops and other Clergy of all the Nations which were under their patriarchal jurisdiction. Of these Patriarches we read in the Counsel of Nice, and before that in the whole Christian world, there were but three: B. Carlton. The Bishop of Rome for the West parts, of Antioch for the East, and of Alexandria for the South. D. Field ib. li. 3. chap. 1 Concil. Nicon. cant. 6. The Bishop of Rome had these five principal Nations within his Patriarchship, Italy, Spain, France, Germany, and Britain. The other had their Patriarchships bounded also by the Council of Nice. Afterwards, when the Emperors had translated the seat of the Empire from Rome to Constantinople (whereupon that City was called new Rome) and that City was grown very great, Noble, and Magnificent, it was thought fit there to erect a fourth Patriarch, the Patriarch of Constantinople: And lastly, for the honour of jerusalem (where our Saviour lived and died, and from whence Christian Religion was propagated into all parts of the world) the Bishop of jerusalem was made a fifth Patriarch, and their dominions were assigned unto them. D. Field ib. Bellar. praefat. in 16. de pontiff. Rom Concil. Constantinop. sub Theodosio seniore. can. 1. & Socrat. lib. 5, cap. 8. Concil. Chalcedon can. 23. Eliensis Responsio ad Apologiam Bellarmini. pag. 170, 171. §. 4. Amongst these, the Bishop of Rome had the first place of dignity: and in the second general Counsel holden at Constantinople (anno 383.) the Bishop of Constantinople obtained the second degree of honour among the Patriarches, next unto the Bishop of Rome, and before the other of Alexandria and Antioch. And in the great Counsel of Chalcedon (anno 454.) it was decreed that Rome and Constantinople should have all Rights, Privileges, and Prerogatives equal: because as Rome was before (Sedes regia) the seat of the Empire, so now was Constantinople; this was the reason then alleged. But not long after, the magnificence of Constantinople increasing, and with it the haughtiness of her Bishop, he challenged to be superior to the Bishop of Rome, and encroached upon the right of all other, as greater and more honourable than all the rest, and to be the chief Bishop of the whole world, because his City was then the chief City of the world. See before. lib. 1. cap. 4. §. 4. About this was the contention betwixt Gregory the first of Rome, and john Bishop of Constantinople, whereof I have spoken before. But john carried away the title and honour for ten years, during his life by favour of the Emperor Mauricious; and Cyriacus his successor for eleven years more. Phocas is thus described by Zonaras, who calls him pessimus tyrannus, & postis humani generis: & saith, he was worthily slaughtered by Heraclius, who cut off his wicked hands and fee, and then his genitals by piecemeal. Paulus Diacows in Phoca. The same writeth Bibliothearius in Bonifacio 3. & Platina in Bonifacio 3. and Sabellicus. 8 6. tho●gh Bellarmine lay that Boniface sued not for that title in Apologia pro Torto Baronius anno 606. nu. 2. But when Phocas the Emperor succeeded (a wild, drunken, bloody, adulterous tyrant, who like another Zimry hath slain his Master Mauricius) Boniface the third Bishop of Rome (who had been Chancellor to Phocas) obtained of him by earnest suit, to have that title and honour of Primacy transferred from Constantinople to Rome. And thus (saith Paulus Diaconus) at the entreaty of Boniface, Phocas appointed the seat of the Roman Church to be the head of all Churches: or as Baronius delivers it, only the Roman Bishop should be called universal Bishop, and not the Bishop of Constantinople. But the contention betwixt the two patriarchal seas ended not thus; for they of Constantinople upon every occasion stirred again, until at length difference growing betwixt the two Churches (the Greek & the Latin) about the proceeding of the holy Ghost, either pronounced other to be Heretics and Schismatics. In the year 869 (above 400. B. Usher. De Ecclesiarum successione c. 2. §. 28 years after the two Patriarches were equalled at Chalcedon) in a Council at Constantinople (wherein Image-worship was established) the two Patriarches were made friends, and it was agreed, that the one should be styled Universal Patriarch, Onuphrius in Platinam, in vita Bonifaci. 3. G●nebrard l. 4. Chronograph. Vniversalis Patriarcha. Vniversalis Papa. and the other Universal Pope, and so the word Pope (which before that time had been common to all Bishops) became then the proper title of the Bishop of Rome. Hereby we may observe, 1. That this Primacy or Supremacy of the Bishops of Rome was of no such Antiquity as is pretended. 2. That in those times, it was not thought either by the Emperors or by the Counsels to have been given to the Bishops of Rome, or established upon any at all, by the divine Scriptures (as now the Popes do claim) but left at the discretion of Princes and Wisemen, to give it to whom they would, and to order or alter it as occasion served, and the respect or dignity of Cities and times required. For neither were their arguments that then claimed it, drawn from the Scriptures, but from civil reasons of State and Policy: neither was it upon any other reasons settled: and the controversy proceeded not from any institution of the Omnipotent God, but from the ambition of Impotent men. 3. The author (that settled it upon the Roman Bishop) was Phocas, one of the Devil's eldest sons, a murderer of his master, a drunken adulterous tyrant, a scourge and plague to mankind. §. 5. 4. Observe the Romish Bishops ambition in those times, swerving from the most honoured humility of a number of their first Ancestors, holy men and Martyrs: to whom the ancient Fathers, Counsels & Emperors, yielded much honour and reverence, as to men sitting at the principal stern of the Ship of Christ's Church to direct and guide it, and men right worthy of their place, as appeareth by innumerable testimonies in Histories and Fathers both Greek and Latin, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Optatus, jerom, Ambrose, Basil, chrysostom, Augustine, etc. Thus saith your learned and moderate Cassander, and now mark what he immediately addeth. Georgi● Cassandris Censul●atio artic. 7. §. De Pontifice Romano. Neque unquam credo, etc. Neither do I think that ever any controversy would have been amongst us of this point, if the Popes had not abused this authority to a certain show of Domination, and stretched it beyond the bounds prescribed by Christ & the Church, through their ambition and covetousness. But this abuse of that Bishop's power, which first his flatterers stretched out beyond measure, gave occasion to men to think ill of the power itself, which that Bishop had obtained by the universal consent of the whole Church: yea, it gave occasion to men wholly to forsake it, which yet I think he might recover (saith Cassander) if he would reduce it within the limits prescribed by Christ and the ancient Church; and use it according to Christ's Gospel, and the tradition of his ancestors, only to the edification of the Church. Therefore at the first, Luther thought, and wrote modestly enough of the power of the Pope, though afterwards being offended and enraged at the most absurd writing of some of his flatterers, he inveighed more bitterly against it, etc. And in the next page before this, Cassander saith, Non negarim, etc. I cannot deny, but many men were compelled at first by a godly care sharply to reprove some manifest abuses: and the principal cause of this calamity and distraction of the Church is to be imputed to them that being puffed up with a vain pride of Ecclesiastical power, did proudly and disdainfully contemn and reject those that justly and modestly admonished them. Wherefore I think there is no firm peace of the Church to be hoped for, except it take beginning from them who gave the first cause of the distraction; that is, that those that sit at the stern of Ecclesiastical government, remit something of their too much rigour, and yield something to the peace of the Church, and harkening to the earnest enertaties and admonitions of many godly men, correct manifest abuses according to the rule of holy Scriptures, and the ancient Church, from which they have swerved. Thus writes your Cassander. D. Field Of the Church, book 5. cap. 50. §. These are all. Our D. Field saith much like to Cassander, that if the Bishop of Rome would disclaim his claim of universal jurisdiction, of infallible judgement, and power to dispose at his pleasure the kingdoms of the world, and would content himself with that all Antiquity gave him, which is, to be in order and honour the first among Bishops; we would easily grant him to be in such sort Precedent of general Counsels, as to sit, and speak first in such meetings, but to be an absolute Commander, we cannot yield unto him. Thus writes D. Field, Idem. Appendix to the fifth book. pag. 78. and more fully in another place: If the Pope would only claim to be a Bishop in his Precinct, a Metropolitan in a Province, a Patriarch of the West, and of Patriarches the first and most honourable, to whom the rest are to resort in cases of greatest moment, as to the head and chief of their company, to whom it especially pertaineth to have an eye to the preservation of the Church in the unity of Faith and Religion, and the acts and exercises of the same, and with the assistance and concurrence of the other by all due courses to effect that which pertaineth thereunto, without claiming absolute and uncontrollable power, infallibility of judgement, and right to dispose the Kingdoms of the world, and to intermeddle in the administration of the temporalities of particular Churches, and the immediate swaying of the jurisdiction thereof, Luther in libro contra Papatum. Luther himself professeth he would never open his mouth against him. King james in his Praemonition to all Christian Monarches. § Of Bishops. pag. 46 Our late most learned and judicious King james of happy memory writes the like: Patriarches (I know) were in the Primitive Church, and I likewise reverence that institution for Order-sake: and amongst them was a contention for the first place. And for myself (if that were yet the question) I would with all my heart give my consent that the Bishop of Rome should have the first seat: I being a Western King would go with the Patriarch of the West. And for his temporal Principality over the Signory of Rome, I do not quarrel it neither; let him in God his name be primus Episcopus inter omnes Episcopos, and Princeps Episcoporum; so it be no otherwise but as Peter was Princeps Apostolorum. But as I well allow of the Hierarchy of the Church for distinction of orders (for so I understand it) so I utterly deny that there is an earthly Monarch thereof, whose word must be a Law, and who cannot err in his sentence. Thus ye see, if the Bishop of Rome enjoy not the honours and privileges which the ancient Church gave unto his predecessors; the fault is not in us, but in him, who unworthily abusing his power to untollerable tyranny, hath worthily lost it, jude vers. 6. Mat. 24.45. as the Angels not content with their first estate, and the evil servant, that instead of well guiding his Master's house entrusted to him, misused and beat his fellow servants; and therefore was cut off, and had his portion with hypocrites. §. 6. Antiquus. I am joyful that such judicious moderate Princes as King james; and such great learned men as Cassander, Luther, D. Field, etc. yield so much honour to the Pope, but I doubt the greatest part of Protestants do not so, yet all that they are content to yield comes fare short of that which the Scriptures and Fathers do attribute to Saint Peter and his successors. Antiquissimus. Scriptures and Fathers never yield more. For the Scriptures, will you stand to the examination and judgement of the most famous jesuite Bellarmine? Antiq. That most Reverend, Learned, judicious, and laborious Reader of controversies at Rome, Bellarmine (the most eminent man, in the most eminent City of the world) handling all points so exactly and excellently, that he was therefore made an honourable Cardinal of Rome, and his books printed with the privileges of the unerring Pope, the Emperor, and the State of Venice, etc. he (I say) shall overrule my judgement in all points. Antiquis. Yet take heed your implicit faith do not deceive you when it is unfolded. Bellar. praesatio ante libros de Romano Pontifice. But in this cause you need seek no further then to see what he saith: for first, This cause (of the Pope's primacy and power) is the greatest of all other, as himself saith, it is De summa rei Christianae, the sum total of Christianity depends upon it. In it the question is, whether the Church shall stand any longer, or be dissolved and fall to nothing; for what is it else to demand whether we may not take the foundation from the building, the Shepherd from the Flock, the General from the Army, the Sun from the Stars, the head from the body: but to ask whether we may not let the building fall, the Flock be scattered, the Army dispersed, the Stars obscured, the body lie dead? Bellarm. ibid. Therefore secondly, to make this piece (of the stately height, wealth and magnificence of the Papacy, which is forsooth the foundation of Religion) most strong: the choicest men for wit, learning, and all other habilities have been set on work to do their uttermost to maintain it: of which Bellarmine reckoneth the chiefest of sundry Countries: In Polonia one, in France two, in Germany five, in Low Germany six, in England six, in Spain six, in Italy eight, in Graecia two. And thirdly, if there be any strength in any of their writings, Bellarmine hath it, and sets it out to the uttermost: therefore if thou find him weak, know for certainty there is no strength in the cause. He musters indeed Scriptures and Fathers, and rangeth them into goodly ranks: but all ad Pompam, rather than ad pugnam. For never a one of them strikes a sufficient blow for him, nor against us. Against his urging of the place of Math. 16. (when he hath with all his wit, stretched it as fare as he can) he is fain to admit three exceptions of the Protestant's which overthrew all that he would prove. First, that as Christ asked (not of Peter only but) of all, Wh●m say ye that I am? Peter answered for all, Thou art Christ the Son of the living God; for all could not speak at once, neither was it decent; one must be the speaker. So also Christ replied upon him as upon all, and therefore what was spoken unto him belonged to them all: And thus the ancient Fathers interpret it; chrysostom upon the place, and Jerome, and Austin, as Bellarmine himself h Be lar. de pont. lib. 1. cap. 12 §. Secunda ob●. citeth them, and reciteth their words: neither saith he any thing to avoid their testimonies, but addeth this only, Peter answered for all; as the Prince and Head of all: which in the true sense we deny not, neither makes it any thing for them. Secondly, the Protestants say, It was not upon Peter's person, but upon Peter's faith (which was the saith of all the Apostles) whereupon Christ would build his Church: to wit, That Christ was the Son of the living God; that is, the great Messiah promised from the beginning, the Saviour of the world. Thus the Fathers also teach, as Bellarmine i ib cap 10. §. quarta senten. confesseth, Hilarius k lib 6. de Trin. , Ambrose l lib 6 cap. 9 in Luk , chrysostom m Hom. 55 in Mat & 83. i● Mat. , Cyrill n ib. 1. de Trin. : He might have added also Augustine o De ●erb●s ● am serm. ●●. , who saith, The Rock is Christ, not Peter, upon this Rock which thou hast confessed, upon this Rock which thou hast known, saying, Thou art Christ, the son of the living God, will I build my Church, I will build thee upon me, not me upon thee, etc. but this your Doctor Stapleton o De ●erb●s ● am serm. ●●. p Princip. doctr. l●b ●. cap ●. See 〈…〉 H●●t pag ●0, ●● calleth humanus lapsus in Saint Austin. To all this Bellarmine saith, they meant not Peter's faith without some relation to his person. What is this to the purpose? This we admit both in him and in all the Apostles: their persons may be said to be foundations in some sort, (as in Ephes. 2.20. Reuel. 21.14.) yet that is in regard of the Faith and Doctrine which they taught; the subject and substance whereof was jesus Christ. Thirdly, the Protestants allege, that whatsoever was promised to Saint Peter in the 16. of Matthew, was certainly performed to all in joh. 20.23. where Christ said to all the Apostles, Whose-soever sins ye remit, they are remitted: and whose-soever sins ye retain, they are retained. And this the Fathers also plentifully teach; q Cypr. de simplicitate praelatorum, sive de unitate Eccl. Cyprian, r Hilari. lib. 6. de Trinit. Hilary, s Hieron. lib. 1. ad jovinianum. At, inquit, dicis, super Petrum fundatur ecclesià: licet id ipsum in alio loco superomnes Apo ●olos siat, & cu●cti accip●ant, etc. Jerome; and Saint Augustine in many places hath the like. All which t Ib. lib. 1 c. 12. § Obi●●tio ultima. Bellarmine confesseth, adding still (lest he say nothing) that yet Peter was a chief man among the rest, which is not the question, and none of us denies it. Thus he granteth, first, that what was there spoken to Peter, belonged to all the rest: secondly, that the Church was built upon Peter's Faith (which was the common faith of all the Apostles) and not upon Peter's person either wholly or principally: and thirdly, that which there was promised to Peter, was afterward performed to them all: and so this place of Mat. 16. makes nothing to the end for which your men so often and so gloriously allege it. Antiq. Were it not that I see it with mine eyes, and read the whole tract advisedly, I should never have believed that Bellarmine had yielded thus much, but yet he doth it with modifications. Antiquis. He must needs make some flourishes to satisfy his own side; but you see, the substance of the matter is flat against him. But note what he grants further. u Bellar de Pont Rom li. ● cap. 11. §. Alterum arg. Peter was made the foundation of the Church by those words of Christ (Mat. 16.18.) upon this Rock will I build my Church: so all the Apostles were foundations, and all the three ways that Peter was. First, as efficient causes, by founding and planting Churches, some in one Country, and some in another: for x Rom. 15.20. Paul would not build upon another man's foundation: and y 1 Cor 3.10. he laid the foundation in Corinth, and another built thereon. And thus were all the Apostles equally the foundations of the Catholic Church, Reuel. 21.14. Secondly, as material causes, by their Doctrine first reveiled unto them by the Lord, and then taught by them in all Churches, which was pure without mixture of error; infallible, being inspired by the holy Ghost, and sufficient both for true faith and holy life; whereupon the Church for ever was to rest, without need of any addition: And thus is the Church built equally upon all the Apostles. z Ephes. 2.20. And in this Saint Peter was no greater than the rest, nor more infallible. Thirdly, as formal causes, by their govenment; for all the Apostles were (Capita, Rectores, & pastors Ecclesiae Vniversae) Heads, Governors, and Pastors of the Church Universal. Antiq. This Bellarmine saith indeed, but he adds a difference in this third point; the other were only heads, as Apostles and Legates, but Peter as the ordinary Pastor; they had fullness of power, yet so as Peter was their head, and they depended upon him, not he on them. Antiquiss. What Bellarmine yields and proves against his own side, we may well take as true, and wrested from him by the evidence of the truth. This last, which he adds in favour of his side, he only saith, but proves not, as behoved him. For how depended the Apostles more on Peter then he on them? where do we read, that ever he appointed, enjoined, limited, or restrained any of them, or shown any authority over them? but contrarily. a Acts 11. We read that he was censured by them, and caused to give an account of his actions, Act. 11. b Gal ●. And that he was reproved to his face, and openly by St. Paul: who protested also that he was not inferior to St. Peter, neither received they ought from him. And further, even c lib. 4 depo●t. Rom. cap. 23. Bellarmine himself saith, they were all equal in the Apostleship, which they received equally of Christ immediately, and none of them of Peter, as he proveth against many d Cardinalis Turrecremata. Dominicus jacobatius, etc. great men of his own side in a whole chapter of set purpose e ibid. . For (the better to make all the Clergy depend upon Peter, though many succeed the other Apostles) many great Catholics hold that the Apostles received not their authority and jurisdiction of Christ immediately, but Saint Peter only, and all the rest of Saint Peter, which f ib. Bellarmine sound confutes, both by Scriptures and Fathers, showing that Christ himself gave them all parem potestatem, equal power: that not Peter but Christ himself did choose Mathias by Lot at the instant prayer of the Apostles: that Paul was an Apostle not of men, neither by man, but by jesus Christ, and God the Father, Gal. 1.1. etc. All which makes for the equality of Peter with the rest, and not for his superiority over them. Antiq. Yet surely he holdeth the same Supremacy which other Catholics hold, though he think it cannot be grounded so firmly upon these places. Antiquis. You may well imagine, he gives not over (without much compulsion and reluctation,) these castles and holds which other great Captains with all their power and policy, held and maintained. §. 7. But there is one poor castle more which he laboureth to hold, though very weakly, that is in john 21.15. Bellar. de Rom. pontiff. l. 1. c. 12. ● ut autem. See D. Field. Church, book ● chap 22. where it appeareth, saith he, that Christ gave more to Saint Peter then to the other Apostles, for he said unto him, Lovest thou me more than these? and than adds, Feed my sheep. To him that loved more, he gave more, to wit, the care of his whole Flock, even the care over his brethren Apostles, making him general Pastor over them also: for there can no cause or reason be imagined (saith Bellarmine) why upon Peter's answer of his singular love above the rest, Christ should singularly say to him Pasce oves meas, if he gave him not something above the rest. To which, we say, the Fathers show another cause or reason: Peter had denied Christ more than the rest, and being forgiven, was to love more than the rest, (Luk. 7.43.47.) and therefore Christ urged him singularly, by thrice ask (Lovest thou me? Cyril. super joan. lib. 12. cap. 64. Augustin. tract. in joan. 123. See this largely handled betwixt Raynolds & Hart. p. 135. & seq. ) answerable to his three denials, to perform the office enjoined in general to all the Apostles. So saith Cyril, Because he denied him thrice at his Passion, therefore there is a threefold confession of love required of him: and so the gloss: and Saint Augustine saith, A threefold confession answereth to a threefold negation, that the tongue may express as much in love, as it did in fear. And so in very truth, Christ's words were rather a stay of Peter's weakness, than a mark of his worthiness, or a proof of his supremacy. Thus we have the only place of Scripture (whereupon Bellarmine insisteth) of performance and bestowing supremacy particularly upon Peter: Bellarmin saith De iustif●t 3. c. 8. initio. Non potest aliquid certum esse certitudine fidei, nisi aut immediate contineatur in verho Dei, aut ex verbo Dei per evidentem consequentiam deducatur, etc. and that not a plain and evident place of Scripture, or by deduction of evident reason (such as necessary points of divinity should have,) but only their own infirm, and unsound interpretation: a poor and weak ground of so great a building. The transcendent supremacy of the Pope of Rome over the whole Church of Christ, and the many Doctrines and practices that depend thereupon, have no other ground in Scripture but this, their own conceited and forced interpretation of this place, [Peter lovest thou me more than these? Feed my sheep:] that is, Take thou authority more than these, to make thy successors above all theirs, heads of the universal Church, with such power, as themselves shall list to take or exercise. Antiq. I cannot but ingenuously confess this inference to be weak indeed, and it doth much amaze me, and makes me quake and stagger, to consider how confidently I have been persuaded that the Scripture is most plain and evident for the Pope's supremacy, and now to see that nothing of any moment can thence be alleged for it. §. 8. Isa chus Casaubonus excrcitatio, ad Baronium Epist. dedic pag. 19 Luk. 22.25, 26. Gasper Scioppius in Ecclesiastico suo ex pos. cap. 47 Is not this quidlibet e quolibet? or rather Contrarium é contrario Antiquis. By such alleging of Scriptures, they may make quidlibet è quolibet, make any substance of any shadow. The learned Frenchman Casaubon wonders at them. Pasce oves mea●, that is, as Baronius interprets it, Supremum in ecclesia dominium tibi assere, Feed my sheep, that is, Take to thyself the highest dominion in the Church: or as Bellarmine, Regis more impera, Rule and command after the manner of Kings: as if he would of set purpose contradict Christ's words; The kings of Nations exercise dominion over them, but ye shall not do so. Nay further, and more strangely, Gaspen Scioppius saith, that Christ by those words hath taken away King's power and dominion over the Nations, and forbidden it to be exercised among Christians: and hath established that infinite power in the Pope over Princes by this, and such like places of Scripture. The pious world wonders at the Pope's challenge to be the highest judge in controversies of Faith (which heretofore was the office of Counsels, by the word of God) but this power and right Bellarmine draws out of the word Feed. Men wonder at the Pope's Immunity from error and infallibility in points of Faith: but Bellarmine also raiseth it out of the words Feed my sheep. Men wonder at the Pope's claim of power (of many ages never heard of) to make Laws in the Church to bind conscience, yea, as some say, to make new Articles of Faith; but this also Bellarmine finds in the same words, Feed my Sheep. They that are practised in reading the Scriptures and Fathers, wonder at the superabundant merits of the Saints, which the Pope dispenseth at his pleasure: but let them cease to wonder, the Scripture gives it to the Pope in that word of Christ to Peter, Feed my Sheep, For so teacheth Bellarmine in his book of Indulgence. Those that will not be rebels to their Prince the Lords anointed, wonder and that with indignation, that the Pope (corrupted by his flatterers) should assume to himself a power to transfer kingdoms, absolve subjects from the oath of fidelity, and make Kings no Kings: but this power of the Pope, Bellarmine and others extract out of the word Feed. Nay, there want not them that gather out of the same word a power in the Pope to chastise with temporal punishments, yea, with death, such Princes as are undutiful to him. So taught Becanus and Suarez, famous jesuites in their most infamous books: such things writes Casaubon. If the word Feed should signify all these, it would be very inconvenient for the Pope: for then all Ministers (which are bidden feed * Acts 20.28. 1 Pet. 5.2. ) should have all that power and privileges which the Pope by that word challengeth. The Fathers took the meaning of Christ to be only feed by doctrine, and that they bet upon and urged: See Tortura Torti, p. 52 & seq. the Pope takes it to govern, Regio moro impera. Indeed the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (though most commonly it signify to feed, yet) sometimes signifies to govern: but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 always to feed. Yet (mark) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is twice in the Text, for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 once, but they catch at government, and let go feeding; what Christ meant not, nor Peter ever used, that they lay hold on, governing the whole Church: the feeding that Christ meant, and Peter used, they leave to others: to labour in the Word and Doctrine is too laborious a feeding for them: and the Friars or jesuits to whom they leave that labour, feed vere strangely. It is strange feeding, to teach men to be Law-breakers, vow-breakers, Oath-breakers; breakers of all Laws and duties: this is not to feed the sheep, but to scatter them, to kill their leaders, tread down their pastures, muddy their waters, stop up their wells; not to feed, but either to starve or to poison them. In like manner, they make Receive the keys of the Kingdom of heaven, to be also exclude from the kingdoms of the earth. Christ restrains the keys to sins (john 20.23. Whose sins ye lose) they extend them to Laws, Oaths, and Vows: Whatsoever thou bindest, that is, whatsoever league of wickedness, conspiracy, treason, rebellion, thou tiest, shall be ratified in heaven; and whatsoever thou losest, be it bonds of Laws, duty, faith, oath, obedience, or allegiance, it shall be loosed in heaven. If this be so, Christ should rather have said to Peter, Luk. 12.32. When thou art (not converted, but) preverted (by such Doctrine) strengthen thy brethren (strengthen thy brethren in evil, in their evils, with hope of rewards from God, for breaking his Laws.) This is most damnable doctrine, not only against God's word and the analogy of Faith, but against common civility, sense, and reason. Thus they abuse the Scripture to wrong purposes, and pervert it contrary to the meaning, to strengthen evil. §. 9 Antonim suma may. dist. 22 c. 5. Psal. 8. ver. 7, 8. Marta. Par. 1. c. 24. Tortura Torti. pag. 177. Some have very ridiculously turned the eighth Psalm to serve the Pope's turn, Thou hast put all things under his feet, that is, under the Pope's government: all sheep and Oxen, and the beasts of the field, that is, men on earth; the fowls of the air, that is, Angels; the fishes of the sea, that is, souls in purgatory. And lately, D. Marta out of the same Psalm, very seriously brings both Christians and Saracens under the Pope's power; for sheep, saith he, signifies Christians, and oxen Saracens; and so he makes the Pope not only a shepherd, but a Neat-heard, much like to that of Lombard, Sent. lib. 3. d 25. & Aquin. 2. 2. q. 2. art. 6. interpreting a sentence of job 1.14. The Oxen were ploughing, and the Asses feeding in their places: the oxen ploughing, that is, saith he, the Priests reading the Scriptures; Archb. Abbot ag. Hill Reason 8. §. 5. the Asses feeding, are the people not troubling their heads with such matters, but content to believe in gross, as the Church believes. A trim text, and finely applied to keep the people from reading the Scriptures. Such lewd, childish, and ridiculous expounding and alleging of Scriptures, shows, first, their want of Scripture proofs for the maintenance of their errors: secondly, their bad minds, striving against their own knowledge and conscience, to blind and gull the world with a false show of Scriptures, when in truth, the whole Scriptures are rather against them: thirdly, the base opinion they had of people and Princes too, whom they thought they could cousin with any false shadows. The observing whereof, Bedel. letters to Wadsworth, pag. 62. 64. 66. Carerius de potestate Pape l. 2 cap. 12. ●x C. Solitae, de maior. & obed. Morton Appeal. l. 5. cap. 26. sect. 1. not only in their other Authors, but even in their Decretals, is able alone to make a man hate Popery. For example, in the Decretals, Deus fecit duo magna luminaria, God made two great lights, that is, the Pope and the Emperor, and that the Pope is so much bigger than the Emperor, as the Sun is bigger than the Moon (which, Clavius saith, is 6539. times and one fift.) A notable text to show the Pope's greatness above the Emperor, and that the Emperor receives all his power and glory from the Pope, as the Moon doth her light from the Sun, and is light only on that side that is toward the Sun, and dark on the side that is averse. Also, Mat 16.18. alleging that text, Tu es Petrus, & super hanc petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam: The Lord, saith he, taking Peter into the fellowship of the undivided unity (oh foul blasphemy!) would have him to be called that which he was himself: that the building of the eternal temple might by the marvellous gift of God, Cap. Fundamentum de clect. in 6 consist in Peter's firmness— that from Peter as a certain head, he should as it were pour abroad his gifts into the whole body,— that the Church might stand upon Peter's firmness. King james Remonstrance, pag. 163. English. 1 Cor. 2.15. In these latter times, they have found out more texts, but no whit better for their purpose then these. Our learned King james in his Remonstrance to the Cardinal Peron, reciteth some of the chiefest. Saint Paul saith, The spiritual man discerneth all things: ergo, (they gather) the Pope must be judge of all men and matters. Mat. 28.18. Mat. 8.31. Mat. 21.2. Christ said, All power is given to me both in heaven and earth: ergo to his Vicar. The Devils said, If thou cast us out, send us into the heard of swine: and Christ said to his Disciples, Ye shall find an Ass' colt bound, lose him and bring him to me. This showeth that Christ disposed of temporal things, ergo so must his Vicar. joh. 21.15. Act. 10.13. jesus not only commanded Peter to feed his sheep, but also said, Arise, kill, and eat: therefore, saith Baronius, Duplex est Petri officium, unum pascere, alterum occidedere: Peter had two offices, one to feed, another to kill. (Belike Peter is now come to the top of the house, and entered upon his second office, to kill and devour.) jer. 1.10. God said to jeremy, I have establishd thee over Nations and kingdoms, to wit, to preach God's promises and threatenings; Luk. 22.38. Mat. 26.52. Molina jesuita. lib. de iure, tract. 2 disp. 29. and Peter said to Christ, See here are two swords; and Christ answered, It is sufficient (not too many.) Also Christ said to Peter, Put up thy sword into thy sheath; ergo the Pope hath power over Nations and Kingdoms, and two swords, one spiritual, the other temporal. Psal. 45.16. It is said Psal. 45. In stead of thy fathers thou shalt have children, whom thou shalt make Princes in all lands. joh. 12.32. 1. Cor. 6.3. Christ said, If I were lift up from the earth, I will draw all things unto me; and Saint Paul, Know ye not that we Paul and the Corinthians etc. shall judge the Angels? how much more the things that pertain unto this life? Upon these places the Papal monarchy for temporal causes hath been built in these latter ages. As in former time, Pope Boniface the eight, Extravag. unam sanctam. grappling and tugging with Philip the Fair, built his temporal power upon this, that In the beginning God created heaven and earth. Antiq. I am very sorrowful to see the sacred Scriptures so vainly alleged by men accounted holy, wise, and learned, I cannot justify them: Bellarm. de iustif. l. 3. c. 8. initio. Bellarmine's rule condemns them, when he saith, that All we are bound to believe with certainty of Faith, must be contained in God's word in plain words, or else evidently deducted from thence by good consequence of Reason. But for this great point (I speak my conscience) here is neither evident words nor scarce any show of consequence. §. 10. Antiquis. But for the contrary, See K. james Praemonition. pag. 47. you shall find in the Scripture, both evident words and manifest consequence. The Scripture is plain, that the words Tibi [tibi dabo claves] in effect are spoken in the plural number in another place, Mat. 18.18. [Whatsoever ye shall hinder lose in earth, shall be bound and loosed in heaven.] whereby the very power of the keys is given to all the Apostles. And the words Pasce oves used to Peter, were meant to all the Apostles, as may be confirmed by a Cloud of witnesses, both of Ancients, and even of late Popish writers, yea, and divers Cardinals. Otherwise, how could Paul direct the Church of Corinth to excommunicate the incestuous person, cum spiritu suo; whereas he should then have said cum spiritu Petri: as our gracious King james gathereth: adding also, that all the Apostles used their censures in Christ's name, never speaking of his Vicar: that Peter in all the Apostles meetings sat amongst them as one of their number: that when letters were sent from the Council (Acts 15.22, 23.) the style was, It seemed good to the Apostles and Elders, with the whole Church, etc. without mention of the Head thereof: that Saint Paul blameth the Corinthians, for that some said they were of Paul, some of Apollo, some of Cephas, some of Christ, which he would not have done; if Cephas (that is, Peter) had been Christ's Vicar, and head of the Catholic Faith: that Saint Paul compareth or rather preferreth himself before Peter, Galat. 2. which had been rudely done, had he thought Peter his Head. Such reasons allegeth our judicious King, See also before, sect;. 6. to which might be added also that Saint Peter was compelled to give account of his doings, to the rest of the Apostles, who contended and contested with him about them. Acts 11. I hope these Allegations are fare more pregnant against the Supremacy of Saint Peter, than the Romists are for it. §. 11. Antiq. Yet the ancient Fathers understand the Scriptures so, These Fathers are thus alleged by Mr Hart; Conference with D. Raynolds, cap. 5 division 3. p. 217 out of Stapleton priu. do. l. 6. c. 13 Raynolds. ib. pag. 2●1. that they gave S. Peter most honourable titles: S. Austen saith, The Primacy of the Apostles is conspicuous & preeminent with excellent grace in Peter: Chrysostom calleth him the mouth of the Apostles, the chief, the top of the Company: Theodoret, the Prince of the Apostles; which title is given him by all Antiquity. Others add out of Epiphanius, The highest of the Apostles: Austen, the head, precedent, the first of them. And Cyprian saith, The Lord did choose Peter first (haply he meant, his first Apostle, not his first Disciple: for Audrew was first a Disciple, and followed Christ, as Saint Ambrose observeth.) And Saint jerom saith, Peter was of so great authority, that St. Paul went to visit him, as himself writeth, Gal. 2. and jerom saith also, that Peter was chosen one among the twelve, to the intent that (a head being appointed) occasion of Schism might be taken away. Of such sayings as these the Father's books are full. Antiquis. Doth not Doctor a See Raynolds & Hart, ibid. cap. 5. diuis. 3. Raynolds there answer you sound and fully? which you may read there at large: the brief substance whereof is this; that all the Father's sayings touch only three prerogatives; the first of Authority, the second of Primacy, the third of Principality, but all far short of the Supremacy which the Pope now claimeth. 1 The authority mentioned by Saint jerom, is only Credit and Estimation; for so jerom expresseth his own meaning. Saint Paul went up to jerusalem to confer of the Gospel with them that were esteemed, that is, with Peter and other Apostles, to wit, with james, Peter, and john, who were esteemed to be Pillars, Gal. 2.2.9. for his conference with Apostles of such authority or estimation might add some credit, authority and estimation to his preaching in the people's minds. If by authority Saint jerom did mean supreme power over the other Apostles, than james and john should have had it as well as Peter, which is not your Catholic doctrine. Also an inferior (or equal) in power, may be superior in authority or estimation: as Tully saith of Metellus a private man (though chosen Consul for the year following) That he forbade certain plays (when an officer had allowed them) and that which he could not obtain by power, Cicero oratione in Pisonem. he did obtain by authority: that is, with the credit which he had with the people. 2 The Primacy which the Fathers speak of, was the Primacy of Order, not of Power, because Peter was first called to be an Apostle, and first reckoned; this argues no more power than the Foreman of the jury hath over the rest. 3 The prerogative of Principality, was in the excellency of grace, and not of power, (as we say, the Prince of Philosophers, Aristotle; the Prince of Poets, Homer; that is, the wittiest, or most excellent, not Lord and master over the rest.) In this sense Saint Austin speaketh Peter the Apostle in whom that grace and Primacy are so superminent, was corrected by Paul a latter Apostle: by calling Saint Paul a latter Apostle, he showeth his meaning of Saint Peter's Primacy to be of his first being an Apostle: and by joining Grace with Primacy, he showeth that in greatness of grace consisted his supereminency. So saith Saint Austen also, b Aug. in joan. Tract. 124. that Peter was Natura unus homo, gratia unus Christianus, abundantiori gratia unus idemque primus Apostolus. But to be chief in grace is one thing, to be chief in power another thing. c Turrecrem. in Summa de Ecclesia, l 2 c. 82. Cardinal Turrecramata saith, A mean Christian (yea an old woman) may in perfection of grace, and ampleness of virtues, be greater than the Pope; but not in power of jurisdiction. If excellency of grace might carry the supremacy of power, you should take it from Saint Peter, and give it to the blessed Virgin. By gifts of grace, we understand all blessings wherewith our Lord honoured him, insomuch as in one thing or other, he surpassed every one of the Apostles. Saint john might exceed him in multitude of prophecies and revelations, and many gifts of grace, as Saint jerom declareth: d jerom. adversus jovinianum lib. 1. Saint Paul excelled him in the chiefest gifts, and laboured more than all the rest, (1 Cor. 15.) so that Saint Austen gives excellent grace to Peter e De bapt. con. Donatistas', lib. 2. c. 1. , most excellent grace to Paul f in Psal. 130. , and calls him The Apostle, by an excellency g Cont. duas epist. pelagianorum lib. 3. c. 1. ; yet Saint Peter excelled Saint Paul in Primacy (or being first chosen) and Saint john in age (being the elder) and therefore preferred before them to be the chief of the Apostles, by Saint jeroms' opinion h Aetati delatum est, quia Petrus erat senior. Hiero 1. adu. jovin. lib. 1. . To this Bellarmine yields: i Bellar. lib. 1. de rom. pontiff. cap. 27. § respondeo Paulum. seeing Paul was called The Apostle per Antonomasiam: quia plura scripsit, & doctior as sapientior fuit cateris: also for planting more Churches than any other, for the other Apostles were sent to certain Provinces, he to all the Gentiles without limitation, and he laboured more abundantly than they all, 1 Cor. 15. And after, k § testatur. ib. § & fortasse, Paul also may be called (princeps Apostolorum) quia munus Apostolicum excellentissime ad implevit, as we call Virgil prince of Poets, and Cicero prince of Orators. Again, Nam etsi Petrus maior est potestate, Paulus maior est sapientia.— Leo makes them the two eyes of the body, whereof Christ is the head: De quorum meritis atque virtutibus nihil diversum, nihil debemus sentire discretum, quia illos & electio pares, & labour similes, & finis fecit aequales. The like hath Maximus, ib. and Saint Gregory, Paulus Apostolus, Petro Apostolorum primo in principata Apostolico frater est. Again, l Bellar. ib. §. denique si hac. Paulus videtur plus Ecclesiae profuisse quàm Petrus; plures enim ex gentibus ad Christi fidem adduxit; plures provincias summo cum labore peragravit; plura scripta, eaque utilissima nobis reliquit. Antiq. Saint jerom saith further, that Saint Peter was made the head of the Apostles, that all occasion of Schism might be taken away. Will you make nothing of those titles which the Scriptures and Fathers so frequently give him, of authority, primacy, principality, supereminency, the mouth of the Apostles, the top, the highest, the precedent, the head and such like? Antiquis. Nothing at all for that power which the Church of Rome now claims by them, and which he never claimed nor used, neither did the Scriptures or Fathers give him: What they gave him we willingly yield, A principality of Order, Estimation and Grace. For all Saint Peter's power is comprised in the keys promised him, and in building the Church upon him: but all the Apostles receive the keys by jeroms' judgement, and the Church is built upon them equally: Ergo, by his judgement Peter was not over them in power: and if you will yet say, he had some government over them, what can it else be but a guidance, (not as a Monarch over subjects or inferiors, D. Raynolds. ib. pag. 226, 227. D. Field. l. 5. cap 24. but) as in Aristocracy, head of the company, which in power are his equals. For in all assemblies about affairs of government, there must needs be one for order's sake and peace, to begin, to end, to moderate the Actions; and this is Saint Peter's pre-eminence, which Saint Jerome m Hieronym. adu. jovin. lib. 2. meant. For, having set down his adversary's objection, (But thou sayest, The Church is built upon Peter) he answereth; Although the same be done in another place upon all the Apostles, and they all receive the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and the strength of the Church is grounded on them equally: yet there is one chosen among the twelve, that (a head being appointed) occasion of Schism might be taken away. The like hath S. Cyprian n Cyprian de Vnitate. Ecclesia. Erant utique & caeteri Apostoli quod fuit & Petrus, pari consor●io praediti & honoris & potestatis, sed exordium ab unitate prosiciscitur, etc. : The other Apostles, saith he, were that which Peter was, endued with the same fellowship both of honour and power: but the beginning proceedeth from unity, that the Church may be showed to be one. To speak at once; view all the titles of excellency given by the ancient Fathers to S. Peter, alleged by Bellarmine o De rom. pont. lib. 1. cap. 25. , weigh them advisedly without prejudice or partiality, and you shall find they prove no more, than the excellency of honourable estimation, the primacy of order, and the principality of grace, and are fare short of proving the Supremacy of power over the whole Christian world now claimed and practised by the Bishop of Rome. B. Carlton. jurisdiction, pag. 55, 56. We may also justly allege that the honours and titles that other Bishops gave to the Bishops of Rome for their great virtue in former times, the Romists of these latter times unjustly draw to prove the jurisdiction of that Sea: because they may find the same or greater given to other worthy Bishops: as to Saint Ambrose, to whom p Basil. epist. 55. Saint Basil writing, saith, He holdeth the stern of that great and famous ship, the Church of God, and that God hath placed him in the primacy and chief seat of the Apostles. So q Sidon lib. 6. ep. 1 & 4. Sidonius Apollinaris Bishop of Arvern calleth Lupus (a French Bishop) Pope Lupus; and his Sea Apostolic. And writing to Fontellus (another French Bishop, r Lib. 7. ep. 4. Quod Apostolatus vestri patrocinium copiosissimumconferre vos comperi. saith, he greatly rejoiced, that he found he did abundantly defend his Apostleship. And again, s Lib. 6. ep. 7. Ego quoque ad Apostolatus tui noticiam accedo I come to the knowledge of your Apostleship. t Chrysost de laudibus Paul hom. 8. & in Gal. 2. Erat Paulus Princeps Apostolorum, honore par Petro, ne quid dicam amplius. Saint Chrysostom called Saint Paul, Prince of the Apostles. u Ruffin. histor. lib. 2. cap. 1. jacobus Apostolorum princeps. Ruffinus gave Saint james the same title. x Greg in 1 Reg. lib. 4. cap 4. Paulus ad Christum conversus, caput effectus est nationum, qui obtinuit Ecclesiae totius principatum. See D. Field. Church, book 5. chap. 41. Saint Gregory gave Saint Paul the title of Head of the Nations, and that he obtained the government of the whole Church. What titles do the Fathers give unto Saint Peter beyond these? If these do not prove any general jurisdiction in others: how do they prove it in Saint Peter? §. 12. But what need we stand upon Titles which the ancient Fathers gave to Saint Peter or the Pope, when the whole course of their actions were against the Supremacy now challenged? Remember what I have said a See before book 1. chap. 1 §. 2. before of the Father's misliking and dissuading the Popes assumed authority in the smallest matters (as Polycarpus dissuading Anicetus; Polycrates and the Bishops of the East, and Irenaeus with his French Bishops in the West, dissuading Victor, from new, unusual, uniustifiable courses. ibid. §. 3. ) Other Fathers afterwards plainly resisting and rejecting the Pope's judgement and authority, as the holy Martyr Cyprian, with many whole Counsels of the African Bishops, Saint Basil the Great, and the whole Greek Church. I shown you also, how three Popes in succession, Zozimus, Boniface, and Celestine (above 400. years after Christ) claimed their superiority and privileges, (not by the Scriptures, but) by a Canon of the Council of Nice, which Canon, the holy learned Bishops in the Council of Carthage rejected, finding no such thing in any of the Copies of the Council of Nice, which their Church kept, or the Church of Alexandria, or the Church of Constantinople. So that finally (condemning that Canon to be countefet, and the claimed authority of the Church of Rome to be new and unlawful) they made Decrees against the Pope's claim, conformable to their own Decrees and Customs of former times. b Ibid. sect. 4. I shown you further, by the Contention betwixt john Bishop of Constantinople, and Gregory the Great, Bishop of Rome, that your own Gregory condemned the titles and supremacy which john then laboured for, and which your Popes now take unto them: he, I say, condemned them for Antichristian, and said, none of his ancestors did ever claim them. c Ibid. sect. 5. I shown you also, how the Bishops of France, Germany, and Britain, with many Counsels, one at Constantinople, another at Frankfurt, another at Paris, with whom also joined Charles the Great, and Ludovicus Pius (beside many learned men in their books at that time) opposed the Pope and his Counsels, and his authority, in imposing the worship of Images upon the Church. Of these, and of the succeeding times, I have spoken d See ibid. sect. 9 10. etc. (in mine opinion) sufficient to satisfy any moderate man: and upon occasion. I have much more to say. But read advisedly at your leisure, B. jewel, B. Morton, D. Field, and our other learned Protestants: or our most judicious King james his books; or read only B. bilson's book e B. Bilson. The true difference between Christian subjection & rebellion, specially the first part, p. 94. & seq in 8. (who writes fully enough and punctually of these matters) and if you be not prejudicated and obstinate beyond all reason, you will be satisfied. Only I will add here for the present, one thing of the African Church, about Saint Cyprians time and after: The Contention betwixt the Bishops of Africa and the Bishop of Rome was so great, that on the one side, (as Cassander f Cassander consultation, artic. 7. pag 54. observeth) Pope Steven repelled Saint Cyprian (à communione suâ) from Communion with him; See ●efo●● ch●p. 2●●●. admitted not to his speech the Bishops of Africa coming from Saint Cyprian as Legates: yea, and forbade all his fraternity to receive them into their houses: denying them not only peace & communion, but also, tectum & hospitium, houseroom & lodging: calling Cyprian (Pseudo, hristum, & dolosum operari●m) a false Christ, and deceitful worker. And on the other side, Saint Cyprian and the Africans stood out, thinking the Pope and the Italians, in the wrong; neither sued they, neither cared they for the Communion of the Pope and the Church of Rome. Doctor Harding saith, g Hardings answer to jewels challenge, pag. 290. The whole Church of Africa withdrew itself from the Church of Rome, by reason of this difference of Appeals, and so continued in Schism an hundred years, and in that time were brought into miserable captivity by the Vandals. (Harding might remember that Rome itself, about the same season, in the space of 140. years, was brought to miserable calamities, being six times taken by the wild and barbarous enemies h B. jewel. ib. ) after which time of 100 years, Eulabius B. of Carthage, condemning his predecessors disobedience, and seeking reconciliation to the Pope, did by public instrument (or writing) submit and rejoin the African Church to the Roman. And Boniface the Pope writes thereof to the Bishop of Alexandria, exciting him to rejoice and give thankes to God for this reconciliation: saying, that Aurelius Bishop of Carthage and his fellows (whereof Saint Augustine was one) being set on by the Devil had borne themselves proudly against the Church of Rome, etc. So were Saint Austen with 216. other Bishops, with four general Counsels, of Africa, Carthage, Millevis and Hippo, condemned and cursed by Eulabius, and declared by Boniface the Pope, to be pricked forwards by the Devil, and wilfully to live out of the Church of God, and die in Schism. This History, reported by Mr Harding, yields a great inconvenience that such good men, as Saint Augustine, Cyprian, Fulgentius, and many others, should willingly live and dye out of the Community of the Roman Church, as schismatics, and excommunicated by the Pope: and yet think themselves safe enough, and generally accounted by the world to be good Catholics, and many of them Saints: And therefore Bellarmine hath reason to discredit this story of the reconciliation, and laboureth to prove it counterfeit either in whole or in part i Bellar. de Rom. Pontif. l. 2. c. 25. . And thus Mr D. Harding is not only proved often by our B. jewel, but here confessed by his fellow Bellarmine to be an errant Catholic, an abuser of the world by fables; and yet lately again k Coster. enchir. cap. De summo Pont. obiectio decima solet. & Sanders de visib. monarch. lib. 7. pag, 3●9. as Lindan before Panopl. lib. 4. cap. 48. Costerus the jesuit mentions the same story as true. Such is their unity among themselves, and the certainty of their both histories and doctrines. If this history be true; then in those times, holy men, Saints, and Martyrs, made no great conscience to resist the Pope, to reject his sovereignty, to live and dye out of the communion of the Church of Rome: if the story be false, then condemn your great D. Harding, and the Authors which he follows, as abusers of the world by falsities. By all this, it appeareth that whatsoever titles the Ancient Fathers gave to Saint Peter: they denied the supremacy now challenged to the Bishops of Rome his pretended successors. §. 13. For indeed, the things wherein Saint Peter excelled the other Apostles, were personal, proper to his person only, and not communicable to his successors. To be the eldest, first chosen, of greatest estimation, fullest of grace, etc. were not things descending to his successors, but proper to himself. Antiq. Neither do the Bishops of Rome challenge these properties: but his Universality of commission over the whole world, and his Infallibility of judgement. Antiquis. But in these two things the other Apostles were his equals. Proved before § 6, & 11. Saint Paul had care over all Churches 2 Cor. 11. so had the rest: and all of them were guided by the holy Ghost from error, both in teaching and writing. Antiq. True, but they could not leave these to their successors, as Saint Peter might. Antiquis. So saith Bellarmine indeed: a De pont. lib. 1. cap. 9 § Respondeo Pontificatum. jurisdictio universalis Petro data est ut ordinario pastori, cui perpetuò succederetur: alijs vero tanquam delegatis, quibus non succederetur. What should be the reason of this? Forsooth, they say that Christ made Saint Peter supreme Pastor and Bishop of the whole world, and so likewise his successors for ever: See Doctor Field. Church, Book 5. cap. 23. pag. 114. but afterwards he gave the same authority to the rest of the Apostles for their lives only: A strange conceit, Christ first gave him a Monarchy, and afterwards took it away again; avoiding his first grant to one, by his second grant to eleven more: for by making all the twelve of equal authority in all parts of the world and towards all persons, so that no one of them could limit or restrain another, he took away the Monarchy from one which he had first given him, and made it an Aristocracy of twelve equals in power: and at their deaths, taking away succ●ssion from eleven, and giving it to one, made a Monarchy of the Aristocracy again, and raised Saint Peter's successor to be greater than Peter himself had been without any peers, honouring the Pope more than he honoured Peter. For Peter was only one of the Duodecem viri, but his successor a sole and absolute Monarch, and all the other Apostles successors were underlings, receiving all their calling, mission, and commission from him, and not to be restrained, limited, governed by him alone. Who would not take this for a strange Paradox, unworthy of wise and learned men? and yet this they are compelled to hold, for two reasons: first, because it is most clear that the Apostles were all equal in power and commission, and received it immediately from Christ and not from Peter, which they cannot, they do not deny. Secondly, because if all the Apostles should leave their power to their successors, than their successors should not depend upon Saint Peter's, but should derive their power from Christ himself, by a line of succession as well as Peter's did; and consequently all the Bishops ordained by the other Apostles and by their successors to the world's end (whereof there were and are innumerable) should have no dependence of Saint Peter, neither could be limited or ordered by his successors, as Bellarmine saw well enough b Lib. 4 cap. 24. §. At contra: & lib. 2. cap. 23. §. & secunda ratio. . Therefore, where Saint Cyprian saith, The rest of the Apostles had equal power with Peter: Their note saith, This must be understood of the equality of the Apostleship, which ceased when the Apostles died: and passed not over unto Bishops c In the annotation to Cyprian, printed at Rome by Paulus Manutius, at the Pope's command, Raynolds & Hart, p. 221. . Bellarmine d Bellar. de pont lib. 1. c. 23 §. vig●sima prima. saw that this shift would not serve the Pope's turn (because the world is full of the Apostles successors, lineally coming from them, which no way should depend upon Saint Peter) therefore he hath another conceit more strange than the former; That the rest were made also Apostles by Christ, and so continued for their life: but they were consecrated Bishops not by Christ, but by Saint Peter: and so consequently (the Apostolic office ceasing) all the Bishop's authority was derived from Saint Peter; A fine conceit, were it true; but himself saith presently after e Ib. §. Respondeo in Apostolatu contineri Episcopatum. that the Bishop's office is contained in the Apostles office, so that in being Apostles they were Bishops also without any further or new ordination; for what Ecclesiastical acts can any Bishop do, which the Apostles could not? Christ gave to the Apostles power to preach and baptise, Mat. 28.19. power to minister the holy Communion, Luke 22.19. power of the keys, of binding and losing, of remitting and retaining sins, of planting Churches, ordaining Bishops and Ministers. For the Apostleship is the highest office in the Church of God, and containeth the power of all the rest in it. f Bellar de pont. lib. 4. cap. 23. §. Addit Cyril. Christ by saying g joh. 20. Sicut misit me Pater, & ego mitto vos, gave them his own office and authority, and made them his Vicars, as the Father's chrysostom, and Theophylact speak, and Bellarmine alloweth h Ib. initio capitis. . And whereas Saint james the younger was ordained Bishop of jerusalem by the other Apostles (as the Ancients show;) that ordination was not a new power given him, but a special application of his old power to that particular diocese i Wherein Bellar. troubles himself idly, the pont l. 1. c. 23 §. praetereaquod ; as also the translation of a Bishop to another Sea, is not the making of a new Bishop, but a mere application of the old to a new place k D Field, ib. pag 116, 117. . §. 14. Thus you see sufficiently (I hope) that though the Church l Section 3, 4, 5. attributed much to Saint Peter, yet m Sect. 10, 11, 12 not such supreme jurisdiction over the whole Church, as now is claimed; n Sect. 13. neither could the prerogatives due to him, descend to his successors; no such thing can be proved either by the o Sect. 6, 7, 8, 9 Scriptures, or the p Sect. 11. Fathers, but plainly the q Sect 10, 12. contrary. r Cyprian epist. 67. D. Field, Church, book 5. c. 42. p. 288. Saint Cyprian saith wisely, that Almighty God wisely foreseeing what evils might follow such universality of power and jurisdiction in one man; ordained, that there should be a great number of Bishops joined in equal commission, that so, if some fell, the rest might stand and keep the people from a general downfall, as it was in the time of the Arians, wherein many Bishops were corrupted, and amongst them the s See the next chapter, sect. 4. Liberius: and before, c. 1. sect. 1. subsect. 2. §. 5. Bishop of Rome: others remaining sound, and prevailing to save the Church from general corruption. To conclude this great point, we account this claimed jurisdiction to be one of the great corruptions of the Church of Rome: a politic device to set up an earthly Kingdom. We know there was a Church of God upon earth perfect and pure, before there was a Church at Rome: and that the Churches in other Nations, of Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippy, etc. had no dependence upon the Church of Rome: they were her sisters, not her daughters: equally branches of the Olive tree, Rom. 11. Rome was not the Root, and they the Sprigs. And the Church of Rome was more perfect and pure before this great jurisdiction was ever claimed and practised, then ever it was after; and salvation therein more easily attained. We know that in the smallest Churches, even those in philemon's, and in Aquila and Priscilla's houses, Philem. 2. 1 Cor. 16.19. salvation was to be had, without subjection to Rome; For wheresoever two or three are gathered together in Christ's name, Mat. 18.20. he is amongst them. They that hear his voice and follow him, john. 10 27. are his Sheep and Church, whethee they be under the Pope or no. And they that are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Ephes. 2.19, 20. Christ himself being the chief corner stone; are not strangers and aliens, but of the household of God, and fellow Citizens with the Saints. The condition of being under the Pope is no where required in Scripture, but salvation promised (wheresoever it is promised), without it. If nothing be necessary to be believed to salvation, but what is delivered in plain words in Scripture, or else thence deducted by evident consequence of reason (as Bellarmine teacheth) than this point is not necessary to be believed, than salvation may be had without it. The ancient Christians indeed reverenced the Church of Rome, and thought fit to keep in the Community of so famous a Church: but they never acknowledged the Prerogative of the Bishop thereof to be such, that it was damnable to be from under him, or separate from community with him, or feared his excommunication as damnable. For the Greek Church (which was a long time a principal part of the Christian world) was never subject to the Roman Bishop, See B. Morton. Causa Regia cap, 1. §. 4 pag. 4. but (as Bellarmine confesseth a Bellarmine in Praefat. ad libros de Rom. Pont. pag. 15. ) divided from the Roman 800. years. And b Bellar. li. 3. de verbo Dei c. 6. § secundo All the Churches of Asia were excommunicated by Pope Victor, unjustly, and contrary to the course of all his predecessors, as both Irenaeus with his Western Bishops, and all the Eastern Bishops manifested it unto him, and therefore they little regarded it, though (as Bellarmine saith c Bellar de Rom. pont. li. 2. c. 19 §. At objicit. ) we never read it was recalled, or they absolved. d Binius Annot. in Concil. 1. Carthag. Pope Steven threatened the African Bishops with excommunication, which they, joining with Saint Cyprian the famous Bishop of Carthage, made none account of e See before, .12. . Saint Cyprian was notwithstanding always accounted in the number of Catholics, f Bellar. lib. 2. deconcil. c. 5. §. 1 and afterward crowned with Martyrdom. In Saint Augustine's time the African Fathers g Card. Cusan concord cath. lib. 1. cap. 20. continued to withstand Pope Celestine and his successors, and stood willingly excommunicated an hundred years, as appears by the Epistle of Boniface h See before, §. 12. , whereof I spoke before. i Bellar de Rom. pont. lib. 2. c. 25. Bellarmine and k Salmeron. rome 12. tractat. 58. p. 498 col. 1. Baronius that deny the story thereof, and would discredit that Epistle, know very well that many learned men of their side allow, applaud and allege it, (as Lindan, Sanders, Harding, Coster, etc.) and so either are blindly deceived, or wilfully deceive the world: they know also that the African Bishops (and among them Saint Augustine the Chief) did very sharply withstand the Roman Bishops claim for Appeals to Rome: and k Salmeron. rome 12. tractat. 58. p. 498 col. 1. they know also that from the time of Saint Cyprian the Church of Africa began to be separated from the Church of Rome. l Baronius tom● 5. anno 4●9. ●u. 93. In which time there were innumerable troops of Martyrs that died for the Catholic Faith, as Baronius confesseth. m Baron. tom● 8. anno 604. nu. 55 & 58. Baronius describeth also out of Beda, how the Churches of great Britain (England and Scotland) were divided a long time from the Roman Church, and subjection to her rites, which were commanded under pain of excommunication, and stood out in Gregory the Greats time, above 600. years after Christ, and would not yield the desired subjection for all that Augustine could do, and yet they were accounted Catholic Christians: and on one day, twelve hundred of them were crowned with Martyrdom, dying for the Faith of Christ, contra Northumbrot infideles, as your histories tell us n Galfrid Monum. hist. lib. 1. cap. 12, 13. . In these latter times, our Adversaries reckon examples enough o Azorius jesuita Institut. moral. part. 1. lib. 8. cap. 20. §. Decimo quar. of Greeks', Armenians, Ruthenians, Egyptians, Aethiopians, and other remote parts of the world, which do not acknowledge the Pope to be their superior, no more than the Protestants do. And yet your Azorius (a choice man, delivering the doctrine of the Roman Church) dare not affirm them to be heretics, but excuseth their opinions different from the Romists, and calls them only Schismatics, because they refuse the Roman superiority. To say nothing of the Protestants, whereof there are innumerable in Germany, France, Britain, Pelonia, David, Bohemia, Hungaria, Helvetia, Sueti●, Silesia, Morana, Transiluania, and other parts, which in this age make the greater part of Christendom; which all reject the Roman Hierarchy, as contrary to the Apostles doctrine, and the Primitive Church for many ages. It may seem strange that any man that hath any dram of Christian Charity, or come of Christian salt in his heart, should persuade himself, or force his heart to think, that so many learned Bishops of old time, and Christians suffering Martyrdom for Christ's sake; and such infinite store of people of all nations in these latter ages, professing jesus Christ's religion, holding all points necessary to salvation; and for them suffering loss of goods, imprisonment, banishment, death and deprivation of all earthly comforts besides it, should cease to be Christians, and become damned creatures only because they will not become subjects to the Pope of Rome, as to their superior; who (as they are verily persuaded) sitteth as Anrichrist in the Church of God, abrogating many of God's Laws, and establishing his own. Or shall they that in tenderness of Conscience have reform many gross abuses in life, and errors in doctrine, which had crept into the Latin Church, be condemned for reforming them, and not communicating with him in his continued abuses, though they hold all good things with him, and refuse nothing which the Scriptures and pure Antiquity hath delivered? No (my friend.) Be you Antiquus, if you will and stick to Hildebrands dictates, broached eleven hundred years after Christ (when Satan was newly loosed) or to Boniface the eights decree 200. years after Hildebrand (for that is your greatest Antiquity:) I will be Antiquissimus and hold the old Religion which the Apostles taught, which the first Churches held, the East, the South, the West, the middle Churches, yea all Churches (even the Roman Church itself) for many hundred years next after Christ; according to which patterns the Protestants have reform their Churches in these latter ages as near as was possible for them: and make no more doubt of salvation therein, then of the holy Fathers, Saints, and Martyrs of former times, which rejected the Pope's superiority and sovereignty, as we do. CHAP. 7. Of the Pope's infallible judgement in guiding the Church by true doctrine. §. 1. It cannot be proved by Scriptures, or Fathers, or by the Analogy to the chief Priests of the old Testament. §. 2. Neither is such infallibility now necessary in any man. §. 3. But if in any man, most improbably in the Popes, whereof some have been children, and many most wicked men, and monsters of men. §. 4. And many Popes have erred (De facto) in judgement. §. 5. Which the Romists distinctions and evasions cannot avoid. §. 6. The manifold and manifest judgement of Antiquity overthrower this supposed infallibility. For §. I. The Ancients ever accounted the Pope, fallible: §. II. And never in their writings mentioned their Infallibility. §. III. But rejected often both their jurisdiction and judgement: §. FOUR Which if they had been established and believed, the Father's studies, and commentaries upon the Scriptures, had been in vain. §. V And Counsels had been called to no purpose. §. 1. Antiquus. SVppose the Pope's claymed-supreme-government over the whole Church cannot be proved by Scriptures nor Fathers, yet if he have infallibility of judgement in all points of heavenly doctrine, we are bound to submit unto him. Antiquissimus. Prove that he hath such infallibility, and we wiil submit to his judgement. Antiq. It is proved by the text a Be lar. de Rom Pont. lib. 4 cap. 3. Luk. 22.31, 32. Simon, Simon, Behold Satan hath desired to winnow you like wheat, but I have prayed for thee that thy Faith should not fail, and when thou art converted, Strengthen thy brethren. Antiquis. These words are no way appliable to Peter's successors, except you will have them first deny Christ outwardly (though faith fail not in their heart) and secondly convert, and afterward strengthen their brethren. Else these things are proper to Peter, who indeed was so grievously tempted by Satan, that in that trial, through the extremity of fear, he denied Christ, and that with bitter imprecations: but yet by virtue of Christ's prayer, he denied him not by infidelity, the persuasion of his heart remained the same it was before; then repenting bitterly for his outward Apostasy, and receiving the sweetness of God's mercy in forgiving, converting, and strengthening him, he was able and fit to strengthen his brethren, to prevent their like falls, or restore them after their falls by hope of the like mercy. Thus your jesuite b Sa jesuita schol. in Luk. 22 id est, sicut ego orando te prote i (inquit interlinearis glassa) ne deficeres, sictu infi●miores sratres exemplo tuae poenitentiae consorta, ne de ve●ia desperent. Se● Are as Mortanus, & Aquinas Catena, on this place. Sa interprets this place, truly alleging the interlineall gloss for it. And thus doth c Theophylact. upon Luk. 22. Theophylact also, attributing the confirmation of his brethren, not to Peter's constancy in the true Faith, but to his sense of God's tender mercy recalling and recovering him: by which he was able to strengthen the wea●e, to comfort the sorrowful, to confirm the doubtful, and to raise them unto assured hope of finding mercy, that otherwise were ready to despair. For who will not be confirmed (saith the same Theophylact) by Peter, in the comfortable persuasion of God's gracious mercy to repentant sinners, that seethe him (whom Christ had so much honoured) after so shameful and execrable fault of Abnegation of his loving Master, the Lord of life, not only received to mercy, but restored to the dignity of the prime and chief Apostle? Bellarmine bringeth some reasons and allegations to prove those words of Luk. 22, to make for Saint Peter's (and his successors) infallibility, but all fare too weak to prove his purpose. See them fully examined and answered by D. Field, d D. Field, Church, book 5 chap. 42. who answers also the other allegations of Mat. 16.18. Upon this Rock I will build my Church: and of john 21.15, 16, 17. Feed my sheep, seed my lambs. Upon which, the infallibility of the Pope cannot possibly be grounded, neither do the Fathers come near to prove it, which are alleged for it, as he showeth. Antiq. For the places of Saint Matthew 16. and St. john 21. Upon this Rock, and Feed my sheep, since you have proved by the Father's judgement e Before chap. 6 section 6, 7. that they belong as well to the other Apostles as to Saint Peter, I rely not upon them, nor upon the Fathers, who by f ib. sect. 12. refusing the Pope's supreme government, seem thereby also to deny his infallibility. But there is another thing, urged by g Bellar. de pont. lib. 4. cap. 3. §. quarto probatur many, and seems to be of great force to prove this questioned infallibility: That the high Priest of the old Testament had in his brest-place the Urim and Thummim, Exod. 28. & 30. that is, Doctrine and Verity, which is expounded in the 17. & 9 of Deuteronomy, where the Lord commands them that doubt of the sense of the divine Law, to repair to the Chief Priest, and inquire of him, adding That he shall tell them the truth of judgement. Therefore both by signs, and by words the Lord hath promised that in the breast of the Chief Priest shall reside Doctrine and Verity; and therefore that he cannot err, when he teacheth the people. And if this was fit for the aaronical chief Priest, much more for the Christian. Conformable whereunto h joh. 11.51. & Rhemists thereupon. Caiphas, the jews high Priest, in a Council, prophesied (truly) that Christ should dye for the Nation. Upon which Text, the Rhemists do note, That the gifts of the holy Ghost follow the Order and Office, not the merits and persons of men; as Caiphas a man many ways wicked, and in part an usurper, in the time when the Priesthood began to decline and give place to the new ordinance of Christ, had yet some assistance of God for utterance of truth, which Caiphas himself meant not: therefore we should not marvel that Christ delivereth his truth by Prelates, his officers, though wicked and unworthy of their office, as also i Canus loc. theol. lib. 5. cap. vlt. §. Ad id. Canus saith, alleging the same text, and Bishop Fisher also k Roffensis contra Assert. Lutheri. veritat. 3. pag. 12. . Antiquis. The high Priests, by their education, office, reading, study, and conference, must in all reason, have knowledge fare beyond ordinary people, for sign whereof, they might wear the Urim and Thummim: and the people were to repair to them for direction in their doubts, (as now to their learned Ministers, whose lips must preserve knowledge.) But the people were not to take all for infallible which they said. l B Morton Appeal l. 3 c. 15 sect. 3. & D. Field, Church, book 5. c. 42. The jews had a gloss upon that text [If the judge shall tell thee that the right hand is the left, and affirm ●he left to be the right, thou must believe him] But this is absurd (saith their Lyranus) for no judgement that is manifestly false must be believed from any man of what authority soever he be. But the people are appointed only to do all things which the high Priests shall teach according to the Law, Deut. 17.11 Whereupon Christ saith, m Mat. 23.2. The Scribes and Pharisees sit upon Moses Chair, and therefore are to be hearkened unto (not in all things generally, whatsoever they say, but (only when they utter and deliver pertinentia ad Cathedram things agreeable to Moses doctrine: as the author of the ordinary gloss noteth n Glossa in ●undem locum. See. Raynolds, Hert. . This therefore proves no infallibility in the high Priest, nor in the Pope, no more doth that of o joh. 11.49, etc. Caiphas (to whom we wonder that you in earnest parallel your Pope:) For he spoke once in the Council, truly, and prophetically (God directing him, and the event) confirming it:) but he spoke also in the Council most untruely and blasphemously, when he said that Christ blasphemed p Mat 26.65. : as Bellarmine saith well q Bellar. lib. 2. de conciliis cap. 8. § alii dicunt. . Therefore to establish an opinion of an infallible judge by an example of a judge blasphemously erroneous in judgement, is little better than to erect a Roman Caiphas. §. 2. You see therefore by the insufficiency of your proofs, first, that you have no probability of your Pope's infallibility. Now I tell you secondly, there is no necessity of any such thing in any one man in the Church of God, because a Bellar. de Verbo Dei li. 4. c. 11. §. hic notatis Costerus Enchir ca 1. §. caetorum. we have all the points of Christian doctrine necessary to salvation, b Coster. ib. Aug. Doctr. Christiana l 2. c. 9 Bellar. de iustif. lib 3. cap. 8. § primara. plainly and infallibly delivered in the Scriptures. Saint Peter was c Mat. 16.17. infallibly guided by the holy Ghost, and freed from all error in doctrine either by teaching then presently, or delivered by writing to posterity; so were all the other Apostles. And e Bellar. de verbo. Dei l. 4. c. 11. § his notatis. what they taught necessary for all men to believe unto salvation, d 2 Tim. 3.16. Gal. 1.12. 2 Pet. 1.21. 1 Thes. 1.13. what they wrote and left for the instruction of the Church in succeeding ages to the end of the world, whereupon all true Christians may and must stay themselves for all points touching the foundation of Religion, & necessary to salvation. If it were possible f Gal. 1.8, 9 for an Angel from heaven to come and teach otherwise, St. Paul doth confidently and doubly pronounce him Anathema. As long as any men or Churches hold fast what the Apostles have delivered, they do g Bellar de verbo Dei, lib. 1. c. 2. § quare can. Faber Stapulensis praefatione in Euangeistas. unfallibly hold the truth: when they swerve from that, they swerve from the Rule of truth, and may quickly lose themselves in inextricable errors. The latitude of this unfallible necessary saving knowledge, I have described before h In the 6. chapter next before. , and it is that we must earnestly contend for, as Saint jude saith, Earnestly contend for the Faith which was once delivered to the Saints i jude vers. 3. ; once delivered, that is, first, and once for all delivered by the Apostles to the first Church, and never after to be altered; for that contend earnestly, and for other profitable doctrines that are thence deducted by manifest consequence of Reason, contend also, but more moderately. For things obscurely thence deducted, and not profitable at all, contend not. Let every man's judgement submit to the rule (of the absolutely necessary points sufficient for salvation) once and first given: and we shall need no more nor further infallibility in any man. §. 3. But if this (so much spoken of) infallibility of judgement for teaching and governing the Church, should be given to any one rank of men, it is very unlikely the Popes should be the men. Is it reasonable to think that children in years and understanding, or men of corrupt and filthy lives, monsters of men (such as many of your Popes were) should be Gods chief infallible governors of his Church? Benedict the 9 was made Pope at 12. or 10. years old (as Baronius confesseth a Baronius anno. ) and ruled that Church 20. years. A likely Sheephards' boy in Saint Peter's place, to feed his sheep (the flocks, they say, of all Christendom) by doctrine and example! more likely to be a plague to the flock: as God, threatening a plague to the Common wealth, b Esay 3.4. said, Children should reign over them. Aristotle judged a Youth not a fit hearer of Moral Philosophy, and yet must this child be thought a fit teacher of heavenly doctrine, yea, to be the Universal Oracle of the world, that hath neither possibility to err himself, nor mislead others. Such a virtue hath the Pope's Chair to infuse learning and all habilities into a Schoolboy, that knows not his Grammar, to serve the Roman turn well enough; to interpret the Scriptures, assoil all questions, resolve all doubts, sit at the starve and guide the ship of the Church, call Counsels, and judge of all their decrees, ratify some, nullify others (as one of fare greater judgement than all the learned of the world) yea, to determine all causes, depose Kings, command Angels, open and shut both heaven and hell, and do every thing as well as Saint Peter himself. How think you? is it reason for any man to think so? Antiq. Many defects may be supplied by learned Cardinals, grave and wise Counsellors. Antiquis. A miserable head that hath his wit to seek in another man's brains; but you c Greg Val. Anlys. fidei l. 8. c. 10. §. Ex quo. This were to give infallibility not to the Pope, but to the Pope with his Cardinals. place not infallibility in the Counsellors, but only in the Pope himself; his failings are not to be amended by theirs, but theirs by him: and indeed, if he be infallible, they are superfluous, and so are all Counsels and learned men. See another Pope somewhat elder, but a great deal worse; john 12. d Banonius anno 955. He was made Pope at 18. years of age: the Romish Church thought it a less evil to endure one head, though monstrous (Monstruosum quantum libet caput far, saith Baronius d Banonius anno 955. ) than to be infamed with two heads, and one body to be cut in two. Upon Saint Dunstan's coming to him to receive his Pall to be Archbishop of Canterbury, at last, Baronius adds, Vidisti extrema duo, Episcopum sanctissimum, pontificem vero moribus perditissimum: Thou hast seen two extreme contraries, A most holy Bishop (Dunstan) and a most wicked living Pope (john the twelfth.) e Baron. anno 963 n. 17. Baronius saith, this john was accused of many most notorious crimes, of adultery with Rainerius his widow, and with Stephana ●is Father's concubine, and the widow Anna, and with his (or her) niece, and that he made the holy palace a stews and brothel house, that he put out the eyes of his ghostly Father Bened, who died upon it: that he cut off the stones of john the Cardinal subdeacon, and so killed him: that he drank to the love of the Devil in wine: that in playing at dice, he would invocate the aid of jupiter, Venus, and other heathen gods: that the whole Council of the Bishops of Italy wrote unto him that he was accused of murder, perjury, sacrilege, yea, and incest with his own kindred and his two sisters, etc. they required him to come and answer for himself, promising him to do nothing but according to the Canons. He wrote again thus ridiculously and childishly, jonnes episcopus, seruus seruorum Dei, omnibus episcopis: Nos audivimus dicere, quod vos vultis alium papam facere: si haec feceritis, excommunico vos de Deo omnipotenti, ut non habeatis licentiam ullum ordinare & missam celebrare. f Platina in joan. 13. Platina in his life (reckoning him john 13.) calls him sceleratissimum hominem, vel monstrum potius, a most wicked man, or rather a monster: and again, Virum omnium, qui unquam ante se in pontificatu fere perniciosissimum & sceleratissimum: A man of all that ever were before him in the Popedom, the most pernicious and wicked. When this john fled, the Emperor Otho made Leo Pope in his room; but as soon as the Emperor was gone, john by the help of his kindred and clients, put down Leo, and reigned again; shortly after, committing adultery with another man's wife, he was thrust thorough and slain: or as g Baron. anno 964. n. 17. Baronius thinks, he was in his adultery strucken in the Temples by the devils, and so died. Was this a man likely to be the infallible mouth and organ of the holy Ghost? If Baronius and Platina be not witnesses sufficient, read ●he same story in your own h Sigonius l. 7. de regno Italioe. Sigonius (the Pope's hired reader in one of his Universities) who writes it somewhat fully, following Luitprandus, Martinus Polanus, Trit●mius, Platina, Krantzius, all your own Catholic Historians. I omit a number of wicked Popes, fellows and equals to these; for I should both weary and stink you out, if I should rake long in the dunghill of these Pope's lives: whereof there were fifty in one plump (as your own i Genebrard. l. 4. Chronologiae, se●ulo 10 anno 90 pag. 546. Genebrard writeth) rather Apostatical than Apostolical in the space of an 150. years. I will only show you a brief of the story of a few Popes in a short time, and their strange Unity, Infallibility, and Holiness. k These things ye may read in Platina, Luit prandus, and Bellarmine also lib. 4. de Rom. pont. cap. 12. §. vigesimus septimus. and in Baronius anno 897. Who only differeth in attributing to Stephanus that which others do to Sergius. Formosus a Cardinal and Bishop was cursed, deposed, and degraded by Pope john the 8, (whom Platina reckons john the ninth) who driving him out of Rome, caused him to swear never to return either to the City, or to his Bishopric. But john being dead, his successor Martin 2, absolved Formosus from his oath, and restored him to his former dignity. Not long after, the same Formosus obtained the Popedom, wherein he lived five years. After him, succeeded Bonifacius 6, living Pope but twenty six days: then Stephanus 6. Who abrogated Formosus his decrees, disannulled his acts in a Council, took up his body, despoiled it of the pontifical habit, as unjustly made Pope after perjury; cut off two of his fingers wherewith he had consecrated, cast them into Tiber, and buried him in laymen's garments. This Steven reigned but one year and three months. After him succeeded Romanus 1. Who abrogated the decrees and acts of Steven, and reigned but three months: then came Theodorus 2. who restored also Formosus his acts and followers, living Pope but twenty days. Then succeeded john 9 (Platina calls him john the tenth) who fully restored the acts of Formosus, and abrogated Stevens, confirming all by a Council. Notwithstanding all this, Sergius 3. restored Steven, and condemned Formosus again, admitted them to priesthood again, whom Formosus had deposed: and whom Formosus had ordered, he again degraded, and caused them to take new Orders: and again took up Formosus his body, out of the sepulchre, beheaded it, and cast the body into Tiber, as unworthy the honour of burial. Whereupon (saith Baronius l Baron. anno 908. ) one Auxilius then wrote a dialogue betwixt Infensor and Defensor, against this inbred discord of the Romish Church, and of the Pope's ordinations, exordinations, and supe●-ordinations, etc. m Nauclerus generat, 31. initio. Thus were Saint Peter's successors whirled about (not with the spirit of godliness, but) with the spirit of giddiness. Vertigo rotabat Petri successores (saith Krantzius n Krantzius Metrepolis l. 2 c. 22. Martin. Polon. Nanclerus ib. saith there were 8. Popes in one King Lodowick's time, who reigned not above 12 years. ) and the head of the Church was long without a brain. Where was then the infallibility of these Pope's judgement in the government of the greatest affairs of the Church? where was their charity and holiness? nay, where was ordinary honesty, civility, or humanity? Here was indeed a most bestial rage, reaching not only to the deathbed, but to the grave, with digging up bones, dismembering dead carcases, derogating from their persons, abrogating their acts, disannulling their ordinations, disgracing their Favourites, degrading the Prelates by their predecessors preferred, Pope against Pope, one head of the Church against another, and Counsels against Counsels, setting the world in amaze, dissolving religion and government, that men knew not what to think, nor what to do. Where was the unity of mind and peace among inferiors, when the heads were so brainsick, or so harebrained, or rather wolfe-braind? Antiq. Enough enough, you have wearied and stunk me out indeed, with these filthy stories: which I would never have believed, had you not turned me to their own authors, to read them with mine own eyes. But it is most admirable that God did yet preserve his Church by such wicked instruments, for you know the doctrine and sacraments delivered by judas were good and profitable, though he was wicked. Antiquiss. o Genebrard. quo supra. ● tanto numero pontificum quinque modò & satis tenuiter landatur. Our Saviour in choosing judas had a purpose to save us, by working good out of his treason; but had he chosen ten judasses' for one or two good Apostles, the world would have muttered at him as improvident. Your Genebrard reports of 50 Popes Apostatical together, and scarce five of them any whit Apostolical; and doubtless he speaks the best for his own side: and the after times grew worse rather than better. Also, though the ministerial acts being ordinary and received of the Apostles (you will say) might be effectual, though wicked men perform them, (which to deny is contrafidem, and so condemns them that abrogated Form●sus his ordinations p Bellar. de Rom. pont. l. 4 cap. 2. § vigesimus sept & §. sed obiicies. ) yet their infallibility (being an extraordinary privilege) in things not ordered by the Apostles, hath no probability at all, but rather, the crossing one of another in their Decrees, and in their Counsels (called and confirmed by themselves) utterly confutes it. §. 4. Antiq. These things you draw in (a latere) sidelings: show me some Popes that have directly, and (facto) indeed erred in the Faith: and then I shall think them fallible. See D. Field, Church, book 5. cap. 43. Bellar. de Rom pont. lib 4. Antiquis. Bellarmine himself yields you enough, though he labour with all his art and wit to excuse all, for some have erred too grossly to be excused, too manifestly to be denied. 1 Pope Gregory 3. Ex ignorantia lapsus est (saith Bellarmine i Bellar. ib c 12. §. sed contra hoc est, etc. ) when he permitted a man to take a second wife, his first yet living, but unable to pay her debt unto him: and taught, that in some case a man might with the licence of his wife, marry another, and so have two at once, which indeed is false doctrine, and so defined by the Council of Trent, sells. 24. can. 2. 2 ib cap. 8. §. Decimus est Marcellinus. 2 Pope Marcellinus (beyond decreeing, proceeded to fact) sacrificed to Idols: teaching Idolatry and Hetheamsme by fact and example. But it was for fear of death saith Bellarmine. And 3 ib. cap. 9 3 Pope Liberius subscribed to the Arrian heresy, set his hand against Athanasius, wrote wicked Epistles: but (saith Bellarmine) it was for fear of death or torments. A man may by the same reason excuse Peter's denial of Christ, and say, it was no sin, if this was no error. Pope Vigillus wrote to the Empress, 4 ib. cap. 10. and to the heretics confirming their heresy, and cursing the Catholic teachers that confessed two natures in Christ: wicked letters, unworthy a Christian man. But (saith Bellarmine) he did it for desire of the Papacy, and in great strayts, into which his ambition had cast him. As though wicked affections could excuse men's errors. Pope Honorius was condemned for an heretic, 5 ib. cap. 11. by the sixth general Council, and again by the seventh: and in an Epistle of Pope Leo: but all these were corrupted (saith Bellarmine) or misinformed. See, this man living but yesterday, knows better than whole Counsels, Popes, and authors living in that age, and is bold to accuse whole general Counsels of corruption, to keep one Pope from corruption. Pope Celestine 3. 6 ib. cap. 14. § cricesimus tertius. cannot be excused from heresy (saith their Alphonsus de Castro) for teaching that by heresy Matrimony is so fare dissolved, that the innocent party may marry again: the contrary whereof is defined by the Council of Trent, Sess. 24. Cannon 5. and by Innocent 3. Bellarmine saith, This was indeed Celestines opinion, but not any decree: a poor excuse. 7 ib. cap. 14. See many Pope's crossing one another in judgement, ex diam etro, noted by Erasmus annot. in 1 Cor. 7. pag. 373, 374. Basilea 1522 cited by B. Morton Appeal l. 3. c 15 §, 1. p 403. Pope john 22. held opinion that the souls departed came not to see God till after the resurrection. Bellarmine answers, he might so hold without danger, because yet there had been no definition of the Church in this point; also, he purposed to define the question, but was by death prevented. A slender answer, leaving him still infallibly faulty. §. 5. Antiq. Sir, you know, the Catholics have many distinctions: The Pope may err in manners, but not in doctrine: in matters of fact, but not in Faith: in person, but not in office: before he be fully settled (as Vigilius) but not confirmed in his seat: in the premises, but not in the conclusion: by way of conference, but not in determining: in a private letter, but not in a Decretal Epistle: in his chamber, but not in his Consistory: in his palace, but not in the Pulpit. In a word, he may err as a man, but not as Pope. Antiquis. Your men (like the Fox) being hunted out of one hold, fly to another; their distinctions are but mere evasions, and illusions to gull the world withal. Their first hold was, that the Pope could not err at all, neither aught to be judged by any man; but being driven from that hold, they fly to another: He may err in manners, or in matter of fact, but not in matters of doctrine or faith: Well, we drive them from that also, for Gregory 3. Liberius, Vigilius, Honorius, Celestine, and john, erred in points of Faith. Then they fly to another hold, they erred in Faith indeed, but yet as men only, not as Popes. I think our learned King james hunts them from this hold also; King james Remonstrance to Card. Peron. pag. 99 in demanding wherefore then doth not the Pope instruct and inform the man? or wherefore doth not that man require the Pope's instruction? shall we say that Esay and Daniel might sink into heresy as men, but not as Prophets? would not the man Esay consult with the Prophet Esay, to be free from error? if he cannot assure himself, how shall he assure us of his freedom from error? I add that the world by such distinction is gulled and abused: Bellar. de Pont. Rom. l. 4 c. 2. §. Deinde catholici pontificem solum, sive errare posset. sive non, esse ab omnibus fideli●s obedienter audien●um. for the Romists labouring to prove their Pope infallible only in some few things, would have the world obey him in all things. Some of them draw his infallibility into a narrow scantling: first, he must enter canonically, else he is not a true Pope, and so wants the privilege: secondly, he is free from error only when he sets himself (as Pope) to decree matters of Faith: and thirdly, to the end to teach or guide the whole Church: and fourthly, See Greg. Val. Analysis fidei, lib. 8. totum. Specially ca 4. 10. & Bellar. de Pont. Rom. l. 4. c. 2. ●. quarta opinio, etc. proceedeth advisedly, and maturely, using all due means to find out the truth. Into these narrow limits & straits some are compelled, all are compellable, to bond the Pope's infallibility, by the manifest histories of their errors both in fact & Doctrine, both as men & as Popes in every degree. But observe (I pray you) whether it be likely that the Pope using all these means be infallible: for would he not then use them, and quickly cut off all contentions? would he suffer troublesome controversies among his own people to be endless? The Dominicans following Thomas teach that the Virgin Mary was conceived in original sin, Archb. Abbot. against Hil. pag. 110. Bedels' letters pag. 52. Concil. Basi. sess. 36. the Franciscans following Scotus teach the contrary and these two families (like the Guelphs and Gibelines) are at mortal feood for the point: the Council of Basil was troubled with it, and decreed on the Franciscans side; the Dominicans excepted against it, as a Council not lawfully called: and the dissension continued still so great, that to quiet all, Pope Sixtus was fain to make a decree and command, that the question should not be disputed of afterwards, and yet they are still hot in it upon any occasion, and Bellarmine Bellarmine. himself hath lately disputed it, and leaves it with a piè creditur on the Franciscans side. Why did not the Pope decide this; and give perfect unity to his Church, whereof there are so great brags? and that other also of Grace and Free will betwixt Dominicans and jesuits? and all other controversies, whereof their books are full? so that their exactest writers (Suarez and others) spend more leaves in confuting their own men, then us? May it not be suspected, they know well enough that this infallibility of the Pope is but a mere fiction & shadow, so that the Pope dare not trust himself, to determine such matters wherein witty & learned men are engaged, lest they fall to quarrel and deny not only his infallibility, but authority? and therefore it is observed, he seldom proceeds to determine such questions. Observe again, that if the Pope be only infallible when he useth such means, it argueth there is no divine inspiration extraordinary from the holy Ghost proper to the Pope, but only Gods ordinary assistance, upon the use of the means, promised to all God's servants: And so is he no more infallible than another man, Observe thirdly, that the world hath no sufficient means to be assured, that such was the Pope's entrance, and such means used by him, that all men may without hesitation obey him. Pighius lib. 4. hierarch. eccl. c. 8 Valentia Analysis fidei part. 8. cap. 10. Bellar. de Pont. Rom l. 4 c. 10. To avoid all inconveniences, Bellarmine and Gregoririus de Valentia teach that whether the Pope in defining use diligence or no, he shall define infallibly. Well, but yet how shall we know whether he be a true Pope or no? Entering canonically, without simony, violence, or other evil means: for Vigilius erred most heretically (saith Bellarmine) because he was not yet true Pope (truly settled) though he carried himself as Pope; and many Popes were rather Apostatical, than Apostolical (saith your Genebrard) because the Emperors put them in (uncanonically it seems) and there have been often two, and sometimes three Popes together, when the world could not know, which was the true Pope. Anno à Christonato 13●. à Christo passo. 1000 Greg. Heymburgensis, in Confutat. Primate. Papae. part 2. citatus a jacabo Vsserio. De Christianarun Ecclesiarum successione & statu. c. 4. §. 19 Three Popes sat all at once in several places in Rome, Benedict 9 Sylvester and Gregory 6. of whom an Eremite wrote thus to the Emp●rour: Imperator Henrice (Omnipotentis vice) una Sunamitis, Nupsit tribus maritis: Dissolve connubium, Et triforme dubium. But to let this pass, miserable is the state of that people that is overruled by your distinctions to obey the Pope without distinction. For example, Suppose there comes a Brief, Bull, or Decree from the Pope, enjoining his Catholics to refuse the oath of allegiance to their natural Prince, (as from Paul the fift to the English) by which refusal they shall be suspected to be Traitors in heart, and all the Kingdom shall be jealous of them, that upon any occasion they will be ready to cleave unto the Pope, or to any that he shall appoint (open or secret enemies to the State) against their King, and to take arms against him, and by wars, insurrections, or treason's, to throw the Land on heaps, and bring in a Chaos of miserable confusion: Or, suppose the Bull goeth so fare (as Pius V his Bull against our right gracious and famous Queen Elizabeth,) to pronounce the King to be no King, to discharge the subjects from their allegiance to him, to command them to take arms against him, and by any means to depose or bring him to ruin: Now the King's life, and the spoil of the Kingdom, and the damnable sin of the people must depend upon this Brief or Bull; for it must be executed, whether it come from the Pope as a man, or as Pope. Poor blinded people must be led with a Piè credendum, and neither have the means or any mind to know whether this Bull came from the Pope canonically entering, or maturely deliberating, or wisely and orderly proceeding (if any such thing can be imagined in such mischievous practices) or whether it come from a Non-Pope, or misinformed, or unjust, Bellar. de Rom. penned l. 4. c. 2 §. Deinde Catholici conveniunt, Pontificem sive errare possit, sive non, esse omnibus fidelibus obedienter audiendum. rash, or ill advised; howsoever it is, No man must judge Christ's Vicar, but for conscience sake, and under pain of damnation, all must obey. Alas, that Christ's pretended Vicar should do the works of Antichrist! Alas, that men piously minded, should be so impiously bewitched to become the instruments of Antichrist, thinking to do service to Christ himself! Alas, that learned men should abuse God's gifts of wit, learning, and other talents, bending all their forces to maintain such doctrine! Antiq. Sir, keep your passion for other company, Reason shall prevail with me more than passion. Antiquis. Dear friend, it is not passion, but compassion to poor deceived souls, brought into such damnable courses by such efficacy of delusion, though I know not how in such causes a good man should not be passionate. §. 6. §. I. But to return to Reason (from which your Reasonless distinctions drew me) In our former examples of Pope's errings, do you not see that although the Papists of this age excuse Honorius of all heresy, and count him a Saint, yet the Catholics of former ages accounted him an heretic; for the sixth general Council condemned him, Bellar. de Rom. Pontif. l. 4. c. 11. and if that Council were misinformed, or corrupted (as Bellarmine imagineth) and thereby induced also the seventh Council, and Pope Leo also to curse and condemn him: yet it appeareth thereby that they thought it possible for a Pope to be an heretic; and surely neither Liberius, nor Honorius, nor any other Pope had ever been taxed of heresy, if the world had then thought the Popes to be infallible. §. II. This also gives us another argument against the assertion of the now-Church of Rome; that none of the Ancients ever knew or acknowledged any infallible judge in the Church, Mr Bedels' letters to Wadsworth. p. 53. 59, ●0. though (we may imagine) such an one would have been a wonderful benefit in securing all men f●om error, with great tranquillity of the Church; in easing leatned men of much unnecessary contention, and of great labour and study; and choking all heresies both easily and quickly; and thereby Divinity should have had the honour above all other professions to reduce all doubts to certainties. If any such thing had been, it were most strange that the Ancients (writing of all other points of Christian doctrine) should never speak word of it, being a thing of such excellent and necessary use, (as is imagined) therefore their very silence thereof proveth there was no such thing. But their contentions with the Pope show it more fully. For no man that believeth the Pope to be the infallible judge of the Church, and so appointed by God, §. III will refuse his opinion or government. But we find the ancient, wise, and holy Bishops, made no bones ordinarily to reject them both. In the very infancy of this affected Supremacy, a See this story in Euseb. hist. l. 5. c. 24, 25, 26. when Pope Victor took upon him to excommunicate the East Church for not concurring with him in the Celebration of Easter day: not only Polycrates and the Eastern Bishops rejected his decision; but most of the Western (as Irenaeus with his French Clergy) gravely reproved him of too much presumption. b See Cyprians Epistles. Afterwards when the Pope took upon him to hear Appeals of men pretending to be wronged by their own country officers (which is the smallest portion of Supremacy) yet Cyprian (an holy Martyr) resisted him; c Bellar. de pontiff. Rom l. 4 cap 7. and the whole Nation of Africa, refused his judgement and government; yea, Saint Cyprian with a Council of fourscore Bishops, decreed directly against the Pope. d Concil. ●arthag. de Haeret. b●ptiz. inter opera Cypriani. And when Cornelius Bishop of Rome (with a Nationall Council of the Bishops of Italy) had decreed (Non debere Haereticos rebaptizari) that heretics should not be rebaptised: yet Cyprian thought and taught the contrary. Constat Cyprian●m contrarium sensisse, & mordicus defendisse, saith Bellarmine e Bellar. l. 2. d● concilijs c. 5. See Euseb. hist. li 7 cap. 2, 3, 4. See these and many more the like histories in B. ●ilson True ●iff●●ēce part. 1. p. 96. &c . The Fathers of the Council of Africa, and Saint Augustine among them, resisted three Popes in succession, Sosimus, Bonifacius, and Celestine, about Appeals to Rome. These things are notorious, and histories have many more the like: and though some of these were in the wrong, yet they always thought the Pope in the wrong, and would never have opposed him had they thought him their infallible judge. By their doings therefore and writings, they shown the general opinion of men in their times, that the Pope was not general governor over them, and that he was as fallible in judgement as other Bishops. Bedel letters, pag 61. Consider also, If the Pope were the infallible interpreter of Scripture, and could not err in his interpretations; why did Pope Damasus consult with jerom about the sense of many places of the Scripture? and not rather set down the sense thereof himself, and declare with his own pen what the whole world should hold without danger, or possibility of error? Or why have our fond Fathers macerated their bodies and beaten their brains to write Commentaries upon the Scripture, and not rather registered the Pope's Expositions? which had been a work worth all the Father's books, and indeed equal to the Canonical Scriptures, or better, and more useful for the Church: whereas now many condemn that of the Canon Law for blasphemy, where it saith (by a shameful corruption of Saint Augustine) that the Decretals of Popes are enrolled amongst the Canonical Scriptures. Decret. c. in Canonicis. dist. 19 § V Thus Erasmus argueth, Annot. in 1 Cor. 7. B. Mort Appeal. l. 2. c. 20. sect. 5. & l 3. c. 15. §. 4. Consider lastly, what need had there been of any Counsels? to what end was so much labour and cost bestowed? to what purpose to trouble so many Universities? to call together so many learned Divines? to turn over so many books? to beat their heads in the finding out of the truth, in discussing of hard questions, and satisfying of doubts? if all this might be so quickly, easily, and sweetly done by the only judgement and determination of the Pope? CHAP. 8. Of the good which the Pope's Supremacy might do to the Church. §. 1. That is urged: but 2. answered, that policies agreeable to God's word and the Primitive Church, only are sufficient, and blessed by God. §. 3. But this policy might be set up by any sect. §. 4. It is unprofitable, and untollerable, 5. shown by examples of Hildebrand: 6. The voyages against the Turk proved profitable to the Pope, not to Christian Princes, 7. as appeared by the Story of Gregory 9 and Frederik 2. Emperor: and 8. many other most wicked Popes. §. 9 The Emperor Phocas erred much in government, in making the Pope so great, so fare from him. For Pope's shortly after, proved Masters of misrule, eiecting the Emperors out of Italy. §. 10. Their turbulent proceeding to dethrone Princes. §. 11. Their troubles wrought in England in King Henry 1. his time, by Anselme: In King Henry 2. time, by Becket: In King john's reign, by Pope Innocent. §. 12. In these latter times, of Queen Elizabeth, by the Bull of Pius Quintus, and the erecting of Seminaries at Rome and Rheims, Schools of Traitors. The reasons briefly touched, 1. Of the Rebellion in the North: 2. Of Ormonds' brethren: 3. and 4. Of other petty conspiracies: 5. Stukely: 6. Sanders: 7. Someruile: 8. Motives to the Ladies of Honour: 9 Of Throgmorton: 10. Mendoza: 11. Creighton the jesuite: 12. Parry: 13. Percy: 14. Savage: 15. Balard with his complices: 16. Aubespineus: 17. Stanley and York: 18. The Spanish Armado: 19 Lopez: 20. Squire: 21. Tyrone. And in the time of King james, 22. Watson, Clarke and others, 23. The Powder treason. Some observations out of these. §. 13. A good Christian abhorreth these treasons, and rejecteth the doctrine that teacheth them: §. 14. And thereby is (by reason) forced to renounce to be an absolute Papist: and to think the doctrines grounded only upon the Pope's authority without Scripture, to be unnecessary: and consequently to acknowledge, that it is not necessary to be a Roman-catholic. The conclusion, with a brief recapitulation of the whole precedent conference. §. 1. Antiquus. ALthough the supreme government of the Church by the Pope, and the infallibility of his judgement, could not be proved by divine proofs: yet is the good thereof so great, for the preservation of peace and unity, and much other happiness both in the Church and Commonwealth, that even in good reason and policy, the very shadows of proofs should be admitted as sufficient to establish it. And if such power and infallible judgement may be given to any, it is most fit it be given to him that hath from all Antiquity been accounted the principal Patriarch, and the high Bishop of the principal City of the world. Antiquissimus. Indeed (Antiquus) now I think you hit the nail on the head: for the Pope's Supremacy and infallibility hath no other ground, but mere humane policy, shadowed by the Scripture cunningly wrested, devised by their learned Politicians for their own wealth and greatness; and taught by their Agents, as most necessary for peace, unity, and much other good. a Bellar de Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. 6. § quarta proposit o. Probabile est, p●eque credi potest, pontificem ut pontificem errare non posse, etc. Bellarmine seems to confess thus much, when he saith, It is probable & may piously be thought that the Pope as Pope cannot err, nor as a particular person be an heretic. Had he had better arguments, is it probable he would have come in with Probabile est, piéque credi potest? But your b Costerus Enchir. pag. 123. Si nullum caput visibile in ecclesia a Christo constitutum foret, vehementer optari ab omnibus oporteret. Costerus the jesuite is a little more plain. If there were no visible head (saith he) appointed by Christ, in the Church: yet such an one ought to be wished for of all men: and your D. c Alabaster, Motive 6. Alabaster yet more plainly, Where (saith he) there is not an infallible authority, which doth judge and decide controversies, by removing all occasions of doubt and reply; and unto which absolute obedience is tied: there must needs be variety of judgements and opinions, which cannot be tied in one knot. And therefore the Protestants have done very unwisely to disgrace and reject this profitable policy of the Church, the fountain of unity. Mr Alabaster calls it policy. §. 2. But alas (Dear friend) In God's business I look only for Truth and Sincerity, which God may bless and prosper, not for shadows and policy without them, which God doth ordinarily infatuate and confound. Happy had it been for the Angels, if they had continued in the excellency of their first estate; but when they striven to be higher, their policy failed them, they fell lower, and of Angels became devils. God's ordinance for d Ephes. 4. vers. 12, 13, 15. gathering of his Saints, e verse 14. preserving true and uncorrupt doctrine, and f vers. 16. effectual perfecting of the Church in every part, was (saith Saint Paul) g vers. 11. He gave some Apostles, some Prophets, some Evangelists, some Pastors and Teachers. If one visible Head had been necessary to these purposes, here was the place he should be spoken of: wherein, since he is not mentioned, doubtless Saint Paul knew no such ordinance of God. See the like Catalogue of Church-Officers in 1 Cor. 12.28, 29. etc. this one visible head is never mentioned nor here, nor in any other place of Scripture, but left out as supernumerarius and superfluous. And we find, whilst God's ordinance was observed, the Church did wonderfully prosper: when it was shouldered out out by humane policies, all things grew worse, and went to wrack. It was an evident work of God's Spirit, h B. Usher Sermon at Wansted pag. 20. that the first planters of Religion, and their successors, spreading themselves through the whole world, laid the foundations of the ●ame Faith, every where in great unity and uniformity: and yet were kept only by the Unity of the Spirit, in that bond of peace without setting up any one man on earth over them all, to keep peace and unity. The true bond, which contained the Doctors and Fathers of the Primitive Church in the unity of Faith, and wrought the conversion of Nations, continueth in our Church also: Sacra Scriptura est Regula credend● certissima, tutissimaque saith Bellarmine i Bellar. de verbo Dei l. 1. c. 2. § quare cum. : The Scripture is the most certain and safe rule of Faith; and Spiritus dominatur in conscientijs fidelium, The holy Spirit rules in the faithfuls consciences, making them all to submit to the word of God: and though disjoined in Nations, Laws, and Languages, yet still to consent in the substantial points of reformed Religion, and constantly to suffer for them in persecution; which unity is not wrought by any Kingdom inter nos among us (such as the Pope assumeth) but by Christ's Kingdom intra nos, within us, ruling our hearts by his Word and Spirit: which Kingdom (he saith) is not of this world, but merely spiritual and divine. §. 3. But now, as if God's truth stood need of our shadowed lies to maintain it, or that humane policy could device better means for the government of God's Church, then either he by his own providence hath prescribed, or the Ancient Primitive Church practised: or else (which is the truth) because there are some newer doctrines and practices to be maintained, neither imposed by God, nor able to stand of themselves: we (forsooth) must device, to set up a man as blind and corrupt as ourselves, and attribute unto him infallibility in judgement, and unbounded jurisdiction in government (which neither Scripture, Fathers, nor any reason doth give him) and by him we must suffer ourselves to be led blindefold, in a conceit of greater peace and unity, than the Truth and God's Spirit at first afforded; which is a mere dream, and not only a carnal, but a most deceivable policy, and no better than the Priests of Antichrist may plot, in being content to yield themselves to the whole guiding of their wicked Master, and attribute unto him infallibility of judgement, without ground or reason. §. 4. That the Pope's infallibility and jurisdiction have no ground in the Scriptures or Fathers, I have showed before, with many reasons against them both: Now (since you urge the profit thereof) I will show you the unprofitableness, and the intolerable inconvenience thereof to the Church, Princes, and commonwealths. Ant●q. If you can do so, you shall go beyond my expectation. Antiquis. I have done it in part already, See before book 1. cap. 5. §. 3, 5, etc. when I shown you how the Pope's earthly kingdom, erected and maintained by many uniustifiable practices and polices, spoileth Christ's heavenly Kingdom, and robbeth earthly kingdoms of wealth, peace, comfort, and many other blessings; as by exempting all the Clergy both their persons, goods and lands from the government, right, or maintenance of secular Princes and Magistrates. By making the Pope superior to Emperors and Kings, to depose them and dispose of their Kingdoms to others, if he think it good for the Church: and to that end freeing subjects from their sworn fidelity, and arming them against their Sovereigns. A doctrine fruitful of treasons and rebellions. Ib. sect. 7. By dispensing and dissolving oaths, covenants, and leagues, and all other bonds and sinews of humane society, peace, and security. Ib. sect 8, 9 By dispensing with God's Laws in matrimonial causes: and in other matters of great moment. Ib. cap. 6. per totum. As also by many hurtful policies to maintain this power, depriving God's people of God's word, and authorising Monks and Friars to preach where they list without control of Bishops, corrupting divinity by Schoolmen's subtleties, jesuits, Statists, and Incendiaries; and many other devices to draw to their faction the Wealth and Sovereignty of the word. Meditate and consider well of that which then I declared, and you will be satisfied that a number of things in the Papacy practised are most unprofitable to the Church, and untollerable to Princes and Commonwealths. §. 5. But to satisfy the more thoroughly, I will show you some examples. Hildebrand (who, as Onuphrius saith, first set up the Pope's princedom) made himself Pope by help of the Devil (so he was accused by a Synod a Trithem. chron. Hirsaugiens. an. 1081. Auentin. annal. Boior. l. 5. & Marian chron. l. 3. an. 1081, &c of 30. Bishops of Italy, France, and Germany,) and by the aid of armed men with some few of the Clergy, and furthered by the great riches of Maud a powerful Gentlewoman of Italy, his familiar friend: without either the b Carlt. iurisd. cap. 7. §. 103. Benno. Naucler. generat. 36. This story I collect out of those histories and our learned men, K. james, BB jewel, Morton, Carlton Bilson, Usher etc. Emperor's consent, or the Cardinals, he called his name Gregory the seventh. Being now warm in the Pope's Chair, he cities the Emperor Henry the fourth (anno 1076.) to appear and answer in a Synod at Rome, to crimes objected against him, upon pain of present deposition. Henry calls a Synod at Worms, where all the Teutonick Bishops (except the Saxons) renounce Hildebrand from being Pope: and to their decree, the Germane and French Bishops, and most of the Italian Bishops (assembling at Papia) subscribed, taking their oaths never to obey him more as Pope. With this decree, Caesar sends his letters to Hildebrand, renouncing him, and pronouncing him deposed from the Popedom. The letters and deposition were delivered in a Synod at Rome, whereupon joannes Portuensis episcopus rushed up, and cried out Capiatur (let him be taken:) at which word the Perfect of the City and soldiers were at point to take and slay him in the Church. But he stoutly catching up a sword, and calling upon the name of Peter, Prince of the Apostles, with solemn words cursed the Emperor, deprived him of his Empire, absolved all Christians from their oath of fidelity made unto him, and forbade them to obey him as King. And this was the first time, that ever any Emperor or King, was pronounced deposed by the Pope, and subjects set free from their Allegiance, as c See Onuphrius cited before Book 1. cap. 4. §. 9, & 10. & urspergen fol. 226. B. Carlton. jurisd. c. 7. §. 105. Malmsburiensis hist. in Willm. primo Angl. Reg. Otho Frising. in vita Henrici 4. l. 4. c. 31. B. Usher De Eccles success. cap. 5. §. 6. Onuphrius and many other historians say. This Emperor Henry (saith Vrspergensis) was valiant, and fought 62. set battles, in number surpassing M. Marcellus, and julius Caesar, of whom the one fought 30. the other 50. This fact of Hildebrand opened all men's mouths with outcries against him, calling him Antichrist, and that by devising fables, corrupting histories, abusing Scriptures, through his headlong ambition, he sought the rule of the world under the title of Christ, and played the ravening wolf in sheep's clothing, spoiling all religious piety, raising wars, seditions, rapes, murders, perjuries, and all evils. Thus cried the world, saith Aventine. Mean season Hildebrand prosecuting the deposition of Henry, stirred up the Saxons against him, offering to make them Kings of the whole West; besides many great men and Bb. were alienated from him, which bred so great troubles in the Empire, and proceeded so fare, that the Princes of Germany meant to create another Emperor, if Henry were not absolved by the Pope from his curse. Whereupon he was compelled sore against his will to go and submit himself to the Pope, and finding the Pope at Canusium, put off his kingly robes, and waited three days barefoot in very cold weather at the Pope's gate, craving pardon for his deeds: a spectacle to men and Angels, and a mocking stock to his proud enemies. At last, by mediation of the Empress his mother, & Matildis his kinswoman, and at the earnest entreaty of all his people crying for pity, with much difficulty he obtained absolution from his Anathema. This storm thus blown over, raised another; for many condemned Henry for baseness in himself, and wrong to them, whom he had brought into trouble, and now made his peace with their enemy so bad a man, an enemy to all religion and goodness, when he should have been a protector of his friends and followers, and a revenger of Ecclesiastical laws violated. Thus the Princes and Bishops of Italy raised hatred to the Emperor, with purpose to choose Henry's son, though young, and to go with him to Rome, and to set up another Pope who should presently consecrate the Emperor, and nullify all the acts of this apostate Pope. This, Caesar hearing of, sent to appease their minds, excusing all by necessity, and promising henceforward to right all things amiss. But Caesar's enemies chose Rodulph Duke of Suevia to be King of Romans, taking order that the Empire should thenceforward go by election and not succession. Whereupon grew mighty troubles, Nation against Nation, Bishops against Bishops, every one thinking they were in the right: Henry's side, as Emperor by birth and long continuance: Rodulphs' side, as authorized to kill the excommunicate and all his favourers. For the Pope had again (upon new discontentments) excommunicated Henry and all his favourers, and sent a Crown to Rodulph with this inscription, Petra dedit Petro, Petrus diadema Rodulpho. This Rodulphus after some bloody battles with Henry, at last lost his right hand; and being brought to Mersburge, said to the Bishops and great men present, that this was a just punishment due to his perjury, because with that hand he had sworn, feaulty to his Lord, and at their persuasion had broken it. Henry then hastens towards Rome with his army to regain the Pope's favour, but being denied it, except he would resign his Crown and Empire into the Pope's hands; he besieged the City, and did much harm to it and to the Country about for two years: at last, the good Pope that had brought them all into misery and danger, left them wrapped therein, and fled: and the people repenting their rebellion, with much money purchased that the City should not be destroyed. Henry enters, shows openly the injuries of the Pope, causeth a new Pope Clemens to be elected, by whom, Henry was consecrated Emprrour, with the good liking of all; and having established all things well, departed into Germany. Anno 1085. B. Car●ton iurisd c. 7. §. 105. Sigebert anno 1085. Florent. Wigorniens. anno 1084. Math. Paris. anno 1086 Specul. historial. lib. 25. cap. 82. And Hildebrand wand'ring like a vagabond without comfort, without help, without hope, though brought to a most pitiful estate, yet pitied of no man, travelling under the unsupportable burden of a restless conscience, he died for grief at Salernu●, confessing that he had greatly sinned in the Pastoral charge committed unto him; and by the Devil's persuasion had stirred up hatred and wrath against mankind. This was the end of Hildebrand, whom the Germans alluding both to his name and conditions called Hell-brand (the Dutch tongue and the English sounding much alike) as if he were a firebrand fetched from Hell to kindle a fire in the Church to consume temporal estates, which is not yet quenched. Antiq. The evil lives of some few Popes, is a Theme that you Protestants take great pleasure in speaking of, and we Catholics exercise our patience in unwilling hearing of it: I assure you, I have suffered much in holding out to hear this your discourse. Antiquis. Good friend, we should not only patiently, but diligently and gladly hear, try, and examine out the truth in matters of such weight. Antiq. But I make a question, whether your relation be the truth or no, for learned Baronius, and many other Catholics do much praise Pope Gregory 7. and account him a Saint. Antiquis. For the truth of my relation, I cite your own Authors, who lived and wrote in those times, or near unto the times wherein the things were done, who set down the whole substance of the story: and it is not reasonable, to think that late writers, men of yesterday (such as Baronius) knew the truth of these things better than they: But that the Italians and modern Catholics do much commend Gregory, I marvel not; It behoves them to say with Demetrius and the craftsmen of Ephesus (Acts 19) Sirs, you know that by this means (by the Pope's Supremacy and the mainetayners thereof) we have our living, our wealth, and honour: let us cry down this Paul, and all that speak against it, and still persuade the world that Great is Diana of the Romans. §. 6. Antiq. Well, I let pass your mirth, and will suppose that some of the Pope's lives have been very faulty; but the faults of the person must not take away the good use of the office. This height of Supremacy might be of excellent use, to knit all Christian Princes in perfect unity & amity, not only to live happily among them selues, but to join all their forces together against the common enemy, the Turk. And while the Pope was in reverend esteem and authority with Christian Princes, many worthy matters were performed, and much more might have been done, had it not been thwarted. Antiquis. You speak by imagination and fancy, what might be done; but read the histories of the Emperors, Princes, and Pope's lives, and see what was do●e; and you shall find all contrary to your imagination. Our late learned and judicious King james shows (by the issue and event) that the expeditions to jerusalem were a device and invention of the Pope, K. James his Remonstrance to Peron. p. 61. whereby he might come to be enfeoffed in the kingdoms of Christian Princes; for then all such of the French, English, or Germans, that undertook the Croisado, became the Pope's mere vassals: all robbers, adulterers, and bankrupts, once crossed on their Cassoks or Coat-armors, were exempted from the secular or civil power, and their causes sped in consistorian courts: whole Countries were emptied of their Nobles, & common soldiers: the Nobles were driven to sell their goodly Manors and ancient demeans, to the Church men at under prices (the very means of Church and Churchmen's revenues growing to so great height) And then his bountiful holiness would give to any of that rif-raffe rank, that would undertake this expedition into the holy Land, a free and full pardon of all his sins, besides a degree of glory above the vulgar in the celestial paradise. This our deep sighted King observes. And if the Emperor or Kings went in person, the Pope had the cunning to make use of their absence: to which purpose let me tell you one story (among many other) of your Pope's doings, out of Cuspinia● a man of your own religion, whose larger relation I will contract as briefly as I can. §. 7. The Emperor Frederick the second, was valiant, learned, liberal, magnifical, and gave great gifts and lands to the Church to procure the Pope's favour; yet he found that the Pope received his enemies, public rebels, and fostered them flying unto him; wherewith he was much offended, yea the Pope (to wit, Gregory the ninth) excommunicated and anathematised him. for no other cause, but that he went not yet to jerusalem to fight against God's enemies, as he had promised, and for which he had taken the Cross upon him. Which journey, the Emperor answered, was only deferred, till he had settled the Imperial business, and should find a fit time, and that he was providing all things necessary for that journey. Mean season, the Pope mightily vexed him, and wrought much evil to the Empire: and when the Emperor called an assembly of Princes at Ravenna, they of Verena and Milan intercepted the Prince's way, and preyed upon them that had taken the Croisado for the holy Land, robbing them of their provision, and that by the Pope's commandment (who had procured the voyage, and written to all Christian Princes to make it, and thrust the Emperor and all men into it.) Yet the Emperor went forwards, and while he was absent from his Country, in this holy voyage, labouring to defend by his sword Christ's sheep from the Wolf, the Pope himself did shear, slay, and devour them. While Frederick took jerusalem, Nazareth, joppes, and other Towns from the Babylonian Sultan, and made ten years peace with him, re-edified the holy City and divers others and was crowned King there with great joy upon Easter day, and wrote to the Pope of his happy success, that all Christendom might rejoice: That proud vicar of Christ, in his absence had, with a great army, entered Apulia, taken it, and made it subject to himself, forbidden them that had taken the Cross to pass the seas, and drove them out of Apulia and Lombardy, and did many monstrous things unworthy a Pope or Bishop. And now receiving the Emperor's letters, contemned them, cast them away, and spread a rumour that the Emperor was dead, that he might the better thereby draw some Cities of Apulia to yield to him, which hitherto kept their faith to the Emperor. And when the Almain● and French, and other Soldiers returned, he caused them most cruelly to be slain, lest they should tell the truth. When the Emperor knew this falsehood, he returns with a great army into Apulia, drives out the Pope's army, and easily recovers his lands. The Pope making league with the Lombard's and Tuscians, curseth the Emperor again, because he had made that peace with the Turk: for the gentle Vicar of Christ could find no other cause. Yet the valiant Emperor enduring all for Christ's sake (though he had also intercepted the Pope's Nuncios with letters to the Turk, desiring him not to restore the holy land to Caesar, as by ●umors be heard he would) seemed not to take knowledge of any wrongs, but desired absolution from the Pope, if in any thing he had offended: and though he employed many Princes and Bishops in that business, yet could he obtain nothing that year: yet at last, after much entreaty, and chief by the mediation of Leopold Duke of Austria (who died presently after) the Emperor was absolved and feasted by the Pope, and (the Italian writers say) he paid an hundred and twenty thousand ounces (of gold) for his absolution. A dear price for one turning of the keys, which the Pope had of Christ for nothing. A dear purchase of unsure favour, the Pope's excommunications stand in blood, cruelty, ambition: his absolutions in covetousness. Shortly after, upon some small stirs, and also because the Pope doubted, the Emperor (passing into Germany) would find out all his devices: he strikes the Emperor again with Anathema: Who, finding himself so mocked by the Pope, grew enraged, joined with the Pope's enemies, entered and subdued many Cities in Italy, many in Vmbria, many in Etruria, quieted the Lombard's rebels, recovered Verona, burned two Towns of Mantua, threatening to besiege the City itself; took Vincentia by force, and roasted it with fire, foraged the territories of Milan, and spoilt almost all Lombardy, afflicting Milan with many slaughters: conquered Viterbium, Faventia, Perusium, Cr●mona, and did much other harm, for which the Pope excommunicates him again; and then were first heard in the world the names of the Guelphs and Gibelines (mighty factions) the Gibelines favouring the Emperor, the Guelphs the Pope, from which factions many evils followed for many ages. Now, when the greatest part of the Cities of Italy, and almost all the Romans clavae to the Emperor: the Pope ordained supplications to God for aid, and caused the heads of the Apostles to be carried about to procure help from heaven, and to encourage the people; and made an Oration to them in the palace of Saint Peter, and signed them with the Cross as if they should fight against Infidels, and so brought them out against Frederick who led a great army before the walls of the City. The Emperor seeing Christians come crossed against him (who had used to fight for the Cross of Christ against Infidels) moved with indignation, commanded the heads of them that were so crossed (whom he took with great slaughter) to be cut into four parts. And at last leaving the City, he took Beneventum, and thence leading his army to the Picentes, wasted the Aesculans fields: then he every where seized on the Templars goods, and did other much hurt. Then Pope Gregory 9 (for very grief) departing this life, Celelestine succeeded and sat only 18. days: and the Pope's sea remained void one and twenty months, for that the Cardinals could not come safely to the City for election of a new Pope. Then Frederick spoiled Faventia, oppressed first with famine: deprived Bononia of the University, and translated it to Milan, and besieged Parma. Mean season Innocent III. was made Pope who formerly had been a friend to Frederick, but now placed in the Papal dignity, became his deadly enemy, as Gregory had been before. He, calling a Council at Lions, caused Frederick to be cited, and making an Oration, cited him himself, and cursed him with Anathema, and feigned many things as spoken by him against Christ; which the Emperor plainly confuted as mere fictions in an Epistle (yet extant) to all the Prelates. There this Pope again deprives the Emperor of his dignity, absolues the Princes from their oaths of fidelity, and urges them to set up another in his room. Frederick hearing this, hastens towards Lions with gowned men equal to an Army: but hearing of stirs at Par●a, turned his course thither, continued long there, and used great cruelty towards the revolting Citizens. Afterwards he overthrew Placentia, and took all Etruria. By this you may see, what a blessing the Pope's greatness was to the world: what safety, peace, prosperity and unity it wrought among Christians, what a Bulwark against the Turk. Alas, all was contrary to your fancy. There could not be a greater means devised by Satan to scourge the Empire, to weaken Christendom to make way for the Turk, to plague Italy, and to undo the Pope himself, than the Pope himself devised and practised. The woeful conclusion was; When the Pope had thus fare provoked the Emperor, procured much evil to many Cities and Countries, and so fired the world, that by the light and waste thereof, the Turk might see an easy entrance into Christendom: then he studied night and day how to destroy the Emperor: some conspiracies were discovered: but finally, poisoned he was effectually, wherein his bastard son Manfredus was thought to be an Agent, by the Pope's procuring. All this, and much more writes your own Cuspinian, reproving the Italian Writers, who flattering the Pope, impute many vices to the Emperor; and preferring the Germane Writers, who knew him & his acts far better. Now Crimine abuno, disce omnes. judge of other Popes by this, or these, and see what great benefits their Supremacy brings to Christendom, and what hindrance to the Turks infidels. §. 8. Antiq. Sir, One Swallow makes not Summer, nor one Woodcock Winter. Among so many Popes as have been since Saint Peter's days (near 250.) haply you may pick out some few, that have abused their place and power, which ought no more to disgrace the other good Popes and their offices, than judas the other Apostles. Antiquis. Some few do you say? then take more. Your own Platina (Recorder or Historian to some Popes, Tortura Torti. pag. 219. and by Sixtus 4. appointed to write the lives of Popes) writes horrible and monstrous things of them. 40 Articles and more proved against john 24. in the Council of Constance, containing many grievous crimes, for which he was deposed. Paul 2. pronounced them Heretics that did but name the name Academy (that is, an University, or great School of learning) either in earnest, See also B. Bilson, part. 1. pag. 154. & seq. & D. Rainolds with Hart. or in jest. Boniface 7. getting the Popedom by ill means, rob St. Peter's Church of all the jewels and precious things, and ran his ways: and returning not long after, caught one of his Cardinals and put out his eyes. Boniface 9 simoniacally sold all things against right and equity, and openly kept Fairs or Markets of indulgences. He showeth the Rusticity of Vrban. 6. the Stupidity of Celestine 5. the Stolidity of john 22. the fraud, ambition, arrogancy of Boniface 8. at the end of whose life, he adds this Caveat: Let all Princes learn, by this man's example, to govern not by pride and contumely, but seek rather to be loved than feared, whereby destruction comes upon Tyrants, etc. He records the troublesome broils for fifty years together, betwixt the Popes, and Senate, and people of Rome (though also there was no firm peace for four hundred years betwixt them) how often were those holy Fathers, Christ's Vicars, driven out of Rome and worse used by them (no doubt) not for any great holiness or virtue found in them? Benedict 9 Silvester 3. & Gregory 6. occupied the seat all at once; which three, Platina calls Tria teterrima monstra (in vita Gregorij sexti:) and not only those three, but most of the others also he fears not to call Porte●ta (in Benedict. 4.) and monstra (in Christopher 1.) He tells how Boniface 8. deluded Celestine by imposture: how Christopher 1. thrust out Leo 5. by force: how Damasus 2. took away Clement 2. by poison: he records Sylvester 2. a Magician: john 13. incestuous: Boniface 7. sacrilegious: john 8. an adulterous woman: he recites 30. Schisms of the holy Church of Rome, in which, sometimes the Church had two heads, sometimes three, for fifty years together. See before ca 7. sect. 3. I have told you before of a troop of Popes, troubling the world about Formosus his body and his acts, john 8. Martin 2. Boniface 6. Stephanus 6. Romanus 1. Theodorus 2. john 9 and Sergius 3. and of 50. Popes (or at least 49.) succeeding one another, whereof scarce one was found worthy the name of a bishop, not six (saith Genebrard) in 150. years, but were Apo●acticall or Apostatical rather than Apostolical. I could tell you also, how Piu● 4. Onuphrius in vita Pij 4. pag. 378. Pandulph. Collen. hist. Neapol. l. 5. ad an. 1385. caused Cardinal Caraffa to be strangled, and other Earls and Cardinals slaughtered in prison, to the great amazement of the people: and how urban 6. misused seven Cardinals, putting five into sacks and drowning them in the Sea; and killing the other two, dried them in a Furnace or Oven, and carried them (in triumph) upon Mules in bags or trusses. Antiquis. These things strike a horror into my soul, but yet these reached not to State-matters, and depositions of Princes, as your former tale insinuated. §. 9 Antiquis. Let me search this mystery of iniquity a little nearer the bottom, and reveal the carriage thereof unto you. St. john Hayward, Supremacy, pag. 55. It was a great error in the Emperor Phocas (as our Sir john Hayward well observed) and contrary to precedent policies, to settle so great a dignity in the Popes at Rome, so fare from Constantinople the seat of the Empire, See before cap. 6. sect. 4. when he made them Heads of Christendom (as I told you before,) for that gave the Pope's power (if they list to be so wicked) greatly to trouble the affairs of the Empire, and to endanger the state thereof. And so it came to pass, for by this means the politic Bishops of Rome found opportunity to steal into such strength with the common people (in the Emperor's long and fare absence) that they were able to make them shake off the Emperor's yoke; first, at Rome, and after further off, for the good of the Church, as they pretended, watching therefore all occasions. When the Emperor Philippicus Bardanes (about the year 713. K. james Remonstrance, p. 29. Example 5. ) finding the worshipping of Images untollerably to increase, to the foul misleading and distracting of Christian people, & also to the great offence of the Saracens then growing great in the East, who took occasion thereby to make Christians odious, and much to annoy them: caused the scandalous Images to be taken out of Churches according to primitive times, partly to unite the people in Gods purer worship, and partly to take away offence from the Saracens: Pope Constantine, instead of joining with the Emperor and Eastern Christians against the Saracens, directly took occasion to disable them against the Saracens, and to increase the scandal for his own private ends, to the great ruin of the Empire, and hurt to all Christendom. Now he saw the Empire decayed in the West, and by the Saracens sore shaken in the East, and encumbered also with a civil war, and the greatest part of Italy seized upon by the Lombard's, the Exarchate of Ravenna, and the Duchy of Rome only left to the Emperor, and those but weakly guarded, now (he thought) was the time for him to play his prizes, he gripes the occasion, calls a Council, declares the Emperor heretic for defacing holy Images, forbids his Rescripts or Coin to be received, or to go currant in Rome, and his Statue or Arms to stand in the Temple. The tumult groweth to height, promoted principally by the Pope, and the Exarch of Ravenna loseth his life. But this tumult at last being appeased, and Rome (for aught the Pope could do) remaining firm to the Emperor: about twelve years after, Palmerius ebr● anno 726. when the Emperor Leo Isauricus began sharply to prosecute Image-worshippers, Pope Gregory the second seeing him have his hands full elsewhere, and Rome weakly guarded with men and munition, found means by help of the Lombard's to make the people rebel, and so the Pope quickly became master thereof. And (saith Nauclerus) Such authority than had the Pope's decrees, that first the Ravennates, Naucler. 2. gen. 25. B. ●ar●ton, jurisdiction. c. 6. §. 7. after that the Venetians did raise an open rebellion against the Emperor, and this rebellion proceeded so fare, that every City and Town put down the Emperor's exarchs, and created proper Magistrates to themselves whom they called Dukes: and thus, as at a great shipwreck every man catches a piece, so every City made her own Duke, and the Pope was careful that his part should not be the least. Not long after this, Ado Viennensis in Chronico & Trithemius Annals. when the Cities of Italy began to pray one upon another, the stronger upon the weaker; and the Pope and the Lombard's (being the strongest of all) who had agreed in conspiring against the Emperor, now fell out about dividing of the spoil: the Pope having made use of the Lombard's to oppress the Emperor; useth still the same Art to call in Pepin the Constable of France into Italy to suppress the Lombard's, and settle the Pope in that which both had gotten from the Emperor; Anno 742. which was done. And shortly after, the States and Peers of France (by the counsel of Zachary the Pope) put down King Childerike as a man too weak to govern, and made Pepin King of France. Thus the power which the BB. of Rome had received of the Emperor and other Christian Kings, they now turned against them, as the juy that is supported and riseth aloft by the Oak, in the end decays and spoils the Oak itself. This was a great step to the Pope's Supremacy, but yet it was not come to the height. Emperors were not yet deposed by Popes, not cut down, but some of their branches cut and pruned off. B. Carlton. ib. cap. 6. §. 13. And Charles the son of Pepin (who still further subdued the Lombard's) enjoyed the power (by the Pope's kind grant) which ancient Emperors held before him, to choose Popes and invest Archbishops and Bishops in all the provinces of his government. Sanders l. ● de clavib David. But of this strange purchase of Rome by the Popes from the Emperors D. Sanders writes, that it is to be accounted one of the greatest wonders of the world: that the Roman Bishops, without any power, or armies, have removed the Roman Emperors from the Tower of the Empire, and made themselves Lords of the Palaces of Caesar's, and turned the whole City into their own power. Indeed it is a wonder, that men pretending holiness, peace, comfort, and blessings to the world, should use such wicked, detestable, rebellious, treasonous courses, to deprive their Sovereigns of their Rights, Cities, Lands, and Honours, by such audacious fraud, and damnable policies. §. 10. Of Gregory 7. that first attempted absolutely to depose Kings, I have spoken before. It seems he took heart at the success of his Predecessors, to go beyond them; seeing Leo Iconomachus (as they called him, the warrior against Images) cast down; and Childerike of France cast down, and K. Pepin set in his place. From these and such like facts, other Pope's (and especially Gregory 7.) derived a Ius, a right, and from these works of darkness took light, making them the rules of their unruly government, and therefore after this, the world could never take rest for the Popes. Then the Kings set up in place of the deposed, must needs be firm to the Pope, and so must others that hoped by the Pope's authority to enlarge their dominions, and encroach upon others; and they again must be honoured by the Pope, and one mutually support another, how bad soever the lives either of Popes or Princes were: and thus the best minded, quiet and best were beaten down, and one Tyrant strengthened another. Sir john Hayward reckons up a number of Popes, Sr. john Hay●. Supremacy p. 56. & seq. that raised other Princes, or Subjects against their own Emperors or Sovereigns. john the 3. raised Berengar and Adalbar against Otho the Great. john 18. raised Crescentius against Otho 3. Benedict 9 stirred Peter K. of Hungary against Henry the black. Gregory 7. Rodulph against Henry 4. Gelasius 12. raised many against Henry 5. Innocent 2. set Roger the Norman against Lothaire 12. The same Innocent raised Guelphus of Bavier against Conrade 3. Hadrian 4. raised Milan and the other Lombard's against Fredrick Barbarossa. Alexander 3. stirred the Dukes of Saxony and Austria to disquiet Almain. Innocent 3. thrust Otho D. of Saxony into bloody war against Philip brother to Henry 6. Pope Honorius 3. raised the Lombard's against Fredrick 2. Clemens 5. opposed Robert King of Sicily against Henry 7. john 22. opposed Fredrick of Ostrich, and Lewes of Ba●ier to fight for the Empire. Clemens 6. opposed Charles 4. King of Bohemia against the said Lewes. Eugenius 4. raised tragedies against Sigismond, specially to impeach the Council of Basil. Paul 2. raised stirs against Frederick 3. to chase him out of Italy. When eight Emperors had been scorched with excommunications of the Popes, and their dominions set on fire, and potent enemies inflamed against them, and many of them consumed: the rest afterwards grew cool, and were content with what holy water the Popes vouchsafed to sprinkle upon them: those eight were Frederik 1. Frederik 2. Philip, Conrade, Otho the fourth, Lewes of Bavaria, Henry 4, and Henry 5. §. 11. Antiq. I am glad yet, that these troubles reached not to our English Kings. Antiquis. If you think they did not, you are much deceived. Read our histories, and inform yourself better; you shall find troubles enough from the Papacy, even in these remote parts, fare from Rome: after the thousandth year of Christ (that is, after the losing of Satan, Revel. cap. 20.7, 8.) and after that, the Pope came to his height. Anselme Archbishop of Canterbury did somewhat trouble King Henry the first, for whereas in former times, the Bishops and Abbots of England used to receive their Inuestitures from the King, by receiving a Pastoral Staff and Ring at his hand (as Saint Wulstan had done from St. Edward the King, professing thereby he would resign it only to him) now Anselme refused to consecrate certain Bishops whom the King advanced and gave them their Inuestitures, so that the King was compelled to send an Embassage to the Pope Paschalis, and before him to plead his cause, as Anselme also did his in like manner. But this matter was indifferently quietly ended, for the Pope (by the mediation of white and red, saith a Monk, the historian) was content to confirm the Bishops, but ordained withal that the King should do so no more; that is, that the King should lose the privilege of his Ancestors. This was done Anno dom. 1104. Anselme died Henries primi anno 11. Speed. Chron. pag. 457. But Thomas Becket being made first Lord Chancellor, and afterwards Archbishop by the favour of King Henry 2. troubled the King much more; for the King being informed of much misdemeanour of Clergy men (who besides other offences, had committed an hundred murders in his reign) and that they were not punished nor degraded by the Bishops, but shifted away into Abbeys or otherways defended; so that the wronged had no remedy, the wrong-doers no punishment, true innocent men no safety, and none of them were in condition of subjects: the King required such to be punished by his Laws, and to have the customs of his Ancestors observed: whereunto all the Bishops assented, but only Becket; who not only resisted, but complained of the King to Pope Alexander: and Alexander at first, desiring to hold the King's love, willed Becket to yield, and Becket so promised to the King absolutely. But when the King assembled his States at Clarendon in Wiltshire, Becket relapsed, and said he had grievously sinned in promising, but would not sinne in performing, yet at the instance and tears of many Noble persons and others privately entreating him for the good of the whole land, he yielded again and promised in verbo sacerdotali to observe all; and all the Earls, Bishops, Abbots, and Clergy did swear and promise the like: but when he should set his hand and seal to a writing thereof, he refused again. Of all this the King by Embassage informed the Pope, desiring a legantive power to be sent to the B. of York: which the Pope unwillingly granted, and withal made it so slight, that the King in disdain sent the Bull back again to the Pope. Then was Becket required to give an account of his Chancelorship, which he refused to do, and to come unto the King: and being told, he would be condemned of perjury and treason for not yielding temporal allegiance to his temporal Sovereign (as he had sworn) and that the Prelates would disclaim all obedience unto him as their Archbishop: he caused to be sung before him at the Altar, The Princes sit and speak against me, and the persecute me: And forthwith taking his silver Crosier in his hands, went armed into the King's presence. Whereat, the King enraged, caused his Peers to proceed in judgement against him; they condemn him to prison for treason and perjury; he appeals to Rome, and away gets him into France, procures the French Kings favour, and by him, the Popes. To the Pope the King sends a Noble Embassage desiring to have two Cardinals sent into England to end the matter. The Pope denies it, reserving the judgement to himself. The King by his Sheriffs, Sequesters all Beckets profits in England; Becket in France excommunicates all in England that maintained the Auitall (or ancient) customs, naming some great men. The King fearing his own excommunication, gathers a great Army, pretending to subdue Wales. Mean season the Pope is persuaded to send two Cardinals; but they cannot persuade Becket to yield any thing, and so that design for peace was frustrate. At length the two Kings of France and England being reconciled, met in France: before whom, Becket being called, and earnestly dealt withal, would not yield any thing, so that all men blamed him. The Pope willed Gilbert B. of London to admonish the King to give over: he did so, but excused the King to the Pope. The Pope excommunicates Gilbert, and went so fare, that the King had scarce one left to read divine Service in his Chapel. The King prays the Pope to send two Cardinals to absolve his subjects, and to make peace: Two come into Normandy, but return without possibility of doing any good, because Becket would not yield a jot. At last, by the Pope's mediation the two Kings met at Paris, where King Henry offered to stand to the judgement of the Divines of Paris, but no peace would be had. After all this the King crowned his son, the Archbishop of York supplying Canterbury's absence. And in the beginning of the seventh year of the banishment of Becket, the two Kings met again in France, and the King (fearing the whole Realm's interdiction by the Pope,) received Becket into favour, yielding him his Bishopric with all the profits and arrearages, and signified it to his son in England. Now Becket Archbishop in England, shortly after published the Pope's letters suspending the Archbishop of York, (for crowning the young King, which was Canterbury's office) with all his adiwants, and would not absolve them but upon conditions at the earnest request of the young King: which the Father King hearing in Normandy, was sore displeased; and shown it by some words: which, four Knights Courtiers, hearing, and thinking to do a great pleasure to the King, and to ease the Kingdom of much trouble, posted into England; and at Canterbury, the next day after Innocents' day killed the Archbishop at the high Altar, and fled into the North. The old King was exceeding sorrowful at the news of this murder, and sent to the Pope desiring him to send Cardinals to inquire of the murder, to whose wills he would submit himself, if he could be found consenting. Here observe 1. What these customs were, which Becket withstood. (1) That without the King's licence none should appeal from the Courts of England to the Court of Rome: (2) That no Bishop, nor Archbishop, should leave their Flock and go to Rome without the King's licence: (3) That they should not interdict nor excommunicate any officer, or such as held on the King in chief, without the King's licence: (4) That Clerks accused for secular offences should be tried before secular judges. 2. Observe, that these Customs, besides profitable and necessary, were also ancient, and so termed; but now shortly after Hildebrands time, must be altered, Kings and States depressed, and the Pope above all former times exalted. 3. Observe, If Becket had stood for the substance of Religion, or any necessary point thereof, it had been a worthy (which now was a wicked) part: but his standing for matters against the good and peace of the Church and Commonwealth; and them ancient, and well established; and that with obstinacy, against the judgement not only of the King, Bishops, and Nobles at home: but even of the Pope himself at the first, the Cardinals, the King of France, the University of Parts, and (as I may say) all the world; argued his exceeding folly, pride, and peevishness. 4 Observe, that even the best sort of Popes, against their own knowledge and inclination, may be drawn by their Counsellors and flatterers; and by the tickling desire of wealth and greatness, to take par●, countenance, and back most obstinate rebels, perjured persons, and untollerable troublers of Church and Common wealth: yea, to defend them while they live, and Saint them after their death. Thus King Henry was troubled much by the Romish Hierarchy: but King john much more. It appears by this which hath been said, Flores historiarum Matthaei West monast. l. 2. p 81 anno 1205 that there had been troubles about the ancient customs & liberty of Princes in the English Church, which the Kings striven still to maintain, and the Popes to infringe: whereof, one was, that no Bishop should be elected and invested without the King's consent in his own dominions: which King john maintained as his predecessors had done. It happened in the seventh year of his reign, that Hubert the Archbishop of Canterbury died; and the Monks of Canterbury secretly in the night chose Reginald their Subprior, and brought him in with Te Deum, first to the high Altar, and then to the Archbishop's chair: and presently causing him to swear secrecy, sent him with some of their company to the Pope, to see how it would be taken: but the Pope (seeing no letters commendatory from the King) made some stay, and took time to deliberate. In the mean season the Monks at home hearing of this delay, and finding that Reginald in his way towards Rome had carried himself as Archbishop elected, and so published their secrets: now repenting their evil choice and bad success, sent to the King and craved licence to choose a new Archbishop, whom the King would commend. The King (winking at their former injury) took this kindly, and commended unto their choice john Grey, Bishop of Norwich, and brought him to Canterbury himself: and the Monks in the King's presence very solemnly chose him, put him into the Archbishop's seat; and the King put him into all the Archbishop's possessions, writing to the Pope, to accept him. Had the Pope been a pious Father of the Church (as you describe him) given to seek peace and ensue it, Rom. 12. as much as in him lay; he might have been well pleased with this peaceable course: but he was led by the spirit of Hildebrand, not of Peter and Paul; and took a course that there might be no peace, and that the people might not under their natural Kings lead a peaceable and quiet life in all godliness and honesty. 1 Tim 2. For he would neither accept of Reginald nor john, but urged the Monks that were sent unto him, to choose a third, one Steven Langton, and against all excuses commanded them upon their obedience, and under pain of Anathema, to do it presently. Whereupon they all yielded, except only one Elias de Brantfield, who still stuck to the King and to the election of the Bishop of Norwich, a man worthy of honourable memory, for his constant standing (though standing alone, in danger, and to the Pope's face) to the right, to his Prince, to the good and liberty of the Church. The rest, with the Hymn brought Langton to the Altar, and the Pope wrote to the King to receive him. B. Caritou. iuris. c. 7. §. 124. The King was herewith much moved, because Steven Langton (though an Englishman born) was brought up under the French King, promoted by him, and tied to be at his command: And therefore King john wrote to the Pope, that he had no reason to admit such a one as Langton to such a great place in his kingdom. And withal he banished the Monks that had chosen Langton, as traitors, and confiscated their goods. This was done upon Saint Swithens day. Mat. Westmonast ubi supra. The Innocent Pope (Pope Innocent the third, who about the same time excommunicated Otho 4. Emperor, and discharged the States of Almain and of the Empire from their allegiance unto him) being set on fire with this news, sent to the Bishops of England commanding them to put the King and his land under the sentence of interdiction, which was executed the 24. of March by the Bishops of London, Ely, and Wigorne, who now turned plainly subjects to the Pope, and leaving England, fled to Rome. The King for this cause of Interdict (whereby himself and his whole land stood accursed) commanded all the goods of the Clerks to be confiscate, and then drew as many as he could of his people to an oath of allegiance. The Pope proceeds to excommunicate the King by name: and finally to pronounce sentence of deposition against him; discharging all his subjects of their oath of allegiance unto him; sending also Pandulph his Legate first into England, and then to Philip Augustus' King of France, to bestow upon him the kingdom of England, so that he would expel King john and take it by force. By this means King john was strangely and suddenly weakened, and utterly disabled to hold his kingdom, seeing strong invasions from without, and daily revolting within to open insurrections, and every man now counted a Saint and Martyr that would fight or suffer in wars against him; considering that the Pope's Bulls, like Magic spells, had let lose many turbulent spirits, not easy to be laid again, but by him that raised them. After much struggling he was finally compelled to deliver up his Crown to Pandolph, that he might receive it again from him, as from the Pope's hands, and be protected by him. And this was done in the 15. year of King john's reign, anno dom. 1213. And Steven Langton made Archbishop. Thus the King became the Pope's vassal: and the King of France forbidden by the Pope's Nuncio to meddle any further against him, K. james Remonstrance pag. 256. being now the Pope's liege man, whom he would protect. And now john held his Crown of the Pope, as a man holds his land of another in Knight's service, or by homage and fealty: and did fair homage to the Pope's Legate, laying down at his feet a great mass of the purest gold in coin; which the reverend Legate in token of his Master's Sovereignty kicked and spurned with his feet and at solemn feasts was easily entreated to take the King's Chair of estate. Observe here first, The progress of the Hildebrandine Religion in deposing of Kings, and discharging their subjects of their allegiance, fidelity and obedience, dissolving government, and filling kingdoms with wars and miseries, begun by Hildebrand, and still continued by his successors. Observe secondly, out of the story of King john; Mat. Westmonast Flores: loco quo supra pag. 95. K. Iam●s Remonstr. p. 58. That this successor of Peter fished not for souls, but for kingdoms, even with the destruction of millions of souls (if your own doctrine be true,) for he caused the whole land to be interdicted, and so to continue six years, fourteen weeks, and two days: plaguing all this while the whole body of the land for the head, the King's offence (a point of injustice) with a heavy spiritual plague, for a light temporal offence (a point of impiety.) For all this while the Church-dores, through the whole kingdom were shut up, no bells stirred, no prayers, preaching, Sacraments, permitted; Children kept unbaptized, bodies unburied, all people accursed, living like heathens, dying like dogs; without instruction, exhortation, consolation: and all that die thus under the curse of the Interdict (without some special indulgence or privilege) are thought for ever damned and adjudged to eternal punishments, as dying out of the communion of the Church. Alas, how many millions of souls did this Innocent the Pope wilfully send to hell in this large kingdom of England and Wales, in this large time of above six years, for another's offence: for what could they do? or what offended they, poor people! if the King would not be ruled by the Pope? Nay, they offended the King also, and incurred much danger and damage, by falling from their obedience for the Pope's sake: and yet are thus recompensed by him. Are these the actions of the Vicar of Christ, to save souls? or rather of Antichrist, to destroy them? Is this the kind Father of the Church? K. james ib. p. 257. But observe further, thirdly, how these pretended successors of Saint Peter, change their spiritual power into temporal, for their worldly gain and greatness: and change Christ's Kingdom, which was not of this world, into the winning and disposing of the kingdoms of this world; and make the penance of sinners the forfeiture of their estates. Is this the satisfaction to be imposed upon a sinner, that of a Sovereign and free Prince, he must become vassal to his Ghostly Father? and make himself and all his subjects tributary to a Bishop? that shall rifle the whole Nation of their coin, and make them do him homage? Shall not a sinner be quitted of his faults, except he be turned out of all his goods, possessions, inheritance, and his Pastor be enfeoffed in his whole estate? Is this holiness? or is it not plain tyranny and robbery? It is plainly to heap robbery upon fraud, and tyranny upon robbery; and to change the sinner's repentance into a snare or pitfall of cozening deceit. And as the end is naught, so the means is worse to bring it to pass by such subtle pranks and wicked devices, as not to stick at setting a whole flourishing kingdom on fire by wars, and seditions: not to care what becomes of men's estates, of their bodies, lives, or souls, but bring them all to ruin: so that the kingdom may be weakened, and the King brought to so low a degree of misery, that he may be easily lifted out of his estate, and the kingdom seized upon. Of King Henry the thirds reign, See before, book 1. cap. 6. sect. 14. Read also Math Paris, & Math. Westminster. in Henr. 3. & B. Carlton of jurisdiction. exhausted of treasure, and scourged of his subjects by the Pope's most intolerable exactions; which caused the people to wish rather to dye, than to live to endure them; I have spoken something already, and can say much more. §. 12. Antiq. This is enough for me, and for this matter more than enough. But it may be in these latter times of greater light, and opposition, the Popes have been more moderate, and become more like to their first Ancestors. Antiquis. Never a whit: See before, Book 1. cap. 5. §. 3. consider. 6. have I not told you before of K. Henry 8. who though he continued the Pope's religion entire, yet for rejecting his jurisdiction, was condemned by the Pope, excommunicated, pronounced no King, his subjects commanded to deny subjection to him, and all men to take arms against him? etc. The like course the Pope hath run against our late most excellent Princes, Queen Elizabeth, and King james. For I will pass by the mischiefs done in other Countries, and the murders of the two last Kings of France: the troubles of our own kingdom will hold me long enough. Camden. Annal. Elizab. p. 27. By the happy abolishing of the Pope's authority by Queen Elizabeth, England became the most free of all Countries in the world; the Sceptre being (as it were) manumitted from foreign servitude, and a great mass of money kept at home, which formerly was exhausted, and yearly, and daily, carried to Rome, for first fruits, Indulgences, Appeals, Dispensations, Palles, and such other things; so that the land grew much more rich than in former ages. The Popes could not be insensible of their loss this way besides all other, and conceiving some hopes of recovery by encouraging persons discontented with this mutation, B. Car ton, thankful remembrance pag 13 See the Bull of Pius 5. in Camden's Annals pag. 183. in the eleventh year of her reign Pope Pius the fifth excommunicated her, deposed her by his Bull, dated anno 1569. quinto Calend. Mart. thereby also absolving her subjects from their oath of allegiance, and from all other offices and duties, accursing all that did obey her. This was done, to procure a strong party in England to join with the Pope and Spaniard in their design for the invasion and conquering of England when their forces should be ready. Camden ib. pag. For the Papists in the Land were so strangely persuaded and bewitched, as to admire with astonishment a certain omnipotency in the Pope, and that his Bulls were dictated by the holy Ghost, and that they in executing them, and in murdering their Princes, should do meritorious acts, very acceptable to God, and dying therein should become glorious Martyrs, and have higher places in heaven, than other men. See Camden annal Elizabethae, p. 315. & p. 348. in fine anni 1581. To gain more people of all sorts, Noble, Gentle, inferiors, to their faction, and to gull them with such false opinions, the Pope out of his Seminaries at Rome and Rheims sent out yearly a number of Priests disguised into England to grope and pervert the hearts of men, secretly and wickedly telling them, that the Pope had supreme power over the whole world, yea, even in politic affairs: that such as were not of the Roman Religion were to be deprived of all regal power and dignity: that it was lawful, yea, and a meritorious work to depose Princes excommunicated by the Pope: that the Pope had actually pronounced & published by his Bull, Elizabeth to be excommunicated and deposed, that since that publication, all her actions were by the Law of God disannulled, and to be held for nought: her Magistrates were no Magistrates, her Laws no Laws. Yea, some of them denied not in public hearing, that they were sent for no other cause into England, than to absolve every one particularly from their obedience to the Qu. as the Bull had absolved all in general: and this they did in taking confessions of their Reconclliation to their Church privately, and promising absolution from all mortal sin, so doing, most safely and secretly. These Seminaries were not erected to teach true Religion, and points of doctrine necessary to salvation (for those might be taught and learned in all places without such cost) but principally to fit young wits, and fiery spirits to become instruments to uphold the Papacy with the dominion, greatness, Camd. ib p. 844. & alibi passim. and wealth thereof, and to regain those that were fallen from it; though it were with the destruction of Kings, dissipation of kingdoms, bloodshed, murders, insurrections, treasons, poison, massacres, and many other evils: as the histories following will declare most plainly; and by their own confessions may appear. 1. This story and the rest of the treasons against Q Elizabeth are set out at large by B. Carlton in his book entitled A thankful remembrance, whose chapters I here note in the margin. To come therefore to the Plots and Treasons practised against Queen Elizabeth, effects of the Pope's excommunication: The first was, The rebellion in the North, stirred up by one Nicholas Morton a Popish Priest; the chief leaders within the land were the Earls of Westmoreland and Northumberland, who were to join with the Duke of Norfolk, intending a marriage betwixt him and the Scottish Queen, thereby to make claim to the Crown of England (Queen Elizabeth being deposed by the Pope's Bull.) With them also was to join, the Duke of Alva, with his power from the Low-Countries; the Earl of Ormond at the same time raising tumults in Ireland, and all procured by Pope Pius 5. who also secretly wrought the minds of many English, by one Ridolph a Gentleman of Florence, Camden. Annal. an. 1568. p. 146. & an. 1572. p. 227. & an. 1569. p. 158, 166— under colour of Merchandise, by whom the Pope's Bulls, letters, and money, (to wit, an hundred and fifty thousand crowns) were conveyed, for the managing of this business. The Pope further promising to the King of Spain, to engage all the goods of the Sea Apostolic, Chalices, Crosses, and holy vestments, to further it. But God prevented this mischief: for the Northern Earls preparations being discovered, and rising before the other associates were ready, were dispersed; the Duke of Norfolk taken and put to death, and the whole plot defeated, to the great grief of the Pope and the Spaniard. The King of Spain said before the Cardinal of Alexandria, the Pope's Nephew, that never any conspiracy was more advisedly begun, more constantly concealed, nor more likely to prosper than this. For that an Army might be sent out of the Low-Countries in 24. hours' space, which might suddenly have taken the Queen and the City of London unprovided, restored the Pope's authority, and set the Queen of Scots in the Throne, especially having so mighty a faction within land and Stukely an English fugitive (made marquis of Ireland by the Pope) undertaking at the same time with the help of 3000. Spaniards, to bring all Ireland to the Kings of Spain's obedience, and with one or two ships to burn all the English Navy. This story is written at large by Hieronymus Catena in the life of Pius the 5. and printed at Rome anno 1588. by the same Pope's authority and privilege, by which we come to the knowledge of the whole plot. B. Carlton ib. c. 3. Camden. ib. pag. 72. 2. I pass by the treasonous leagues made by the Earl of Ormonds' Brethren with james Fitzmorice of Desmonds' Family, and others to serve the Pope and Spaniards designs against Queen Elizabeth. And the Earl of Darbies' sons with Gerard, Hall, Rolston and other Darbishire men's conspiracy, to set up the Queen of Scots. And other conspiracies of B. Rosse, Henry Percy, etc. and of Powel and Owen, for the Queen of Scots. Also of don john of Austria his plotting to marry the Q. of Scots, and put down Elizabeth with the favour of the Pope and Guise's: for these plots miscarried in their Infancy. Thomas Stukely having rioted out his State in England, Ibid. cap. 4. Camden. Annal. part. 2. pag. 193. 229. passed to Rome, and made Pius 5. believe, that with 3000. Italians he would drive the English out of Ireland and burn the Queen's Navy. Pius dying, Gregory 13. employed Stukely to get Ireland for his bastard son, creating the said Stukley, marquis of Lagen, Earl of Wexford and Caterlogh, Viscount of Morough, and Baron of Rosse, (famous places in Ireland) and made him General of 800. Italian soldiers. But Stukley coming by Portugal joined with the King in a war in Africa, that the King afterward might go against England with Arms, as he against Ireland: but in Africa they were both slain, and two other Kings died also at the same battle, 1572. Whereupon the Spanish King turned his forces (prepared for England) to subdue Portugal. Note here the Pope's zeal, not to win souls to Christ, but Kingdoms to their Bastards. Note also, two Popes proceed in malice and malediction against Queen Elizabeth, and one English fugitive makes them both fools. And note thirdly, how God can divert the great preparations of puissant Princes; and turn their wise policies into foolishness. Nicholas Sanders D. of Divinity, Ibid. cap. 5. Rea●e Camd. A●nal. par●t 3. pag. 371, 372. having written a witty and wicked book, to maintain the Roman visible Ecclesiastical Monarchy, comes into Ireland (1579) with the Pope's legantive authority, and a consecrated banner, with three ships to join with the rebels against Queen Elizabeth; where much mischief was done, supplies sent of men, money, and armour from the Pope and Spaniard: but after divers years, divers fortunes, the Earl of Desmond (chief of the rebels) wandering, and poor, was killed by a common Soldier, and D. Sanders for grief ran mad, and finally died miserably being hunger-starved. Ibid. cap. 6. See Camden's Annals p. 315. etc. Anno 1568. begins the Seminaries, devised by Cardinal Allen (an Englishman as Sanders was) first, at Douai for English fugitives, but removed to Rheims by the Guises, and another erected at Rome by Gregory 13. In them were trained up many fit instruments for Rome and Spain, traitors to England, issuing out thence when they were fitted, as Campian, Parson, Sherwin, Kirby, Briant, and multitudes of others, not in the habits of Priests, but of Gallants, Servingmen, Summoners, or any other, the better to insinuate into company, and pervert men without danger of discovery. Cap. 7. 1583. Camden. Annal, part. 3. p 370. 7. Someruile bewitched by the wicked seditious books of the jesuits, sought to come into the Queen's presence to kill her, and by the way set upon one or two with his drawn sword: but was taken and hanged, as was also Ardern his father in Law. 8. Among other mischievous books, one exhorted the Ladies and maids of honour to do as judith did to Holofernes. 1584. See Camd. Annal. ib. p. 398. 9 Francis Throgmorton practised to deliver the Q. of Scots: Upon discovery whereof, Thomas L. Paget, and Charles Arundel fled into France, the Earls of Northumberland and Arundel commanded to keep their houses, and 70. Priests (whereof some were condemned to dye) were sent out of England, whereof the chief were Gasper Heywod, james Bosgrate, john Hart, Edward Bishton, etc. 10. Bernardine Mendoza Ambassador from the K. of Spain, was commanded to avoid England for treasonable practices with Thr●gmorton and others, to bring strangers into England and depose the Queen. This Mendoza had made two Catalogues, One of the havens of England, fit to land forces in; the other of all the Noble men that favoured the Romish Religion. 11. Cap. 8. Queen Elizabeth purposed to set the Queen of Scots at liberty, and sent Sir William Wade to her, to confer of the means, and was ready also to send other Commissioners to effect it, but a strange accident hindered it. One Creighton a Scottish jesuit, being taken by Dutch Pirates, tore certain papers and cast them into the Sea, but they were blown back into the ship, gathered, brought to Sir William Wade, who peeced them again, and they discovered new practices of the Pope, Spaniards, and Guises, to depose Queen Elizabeth and King james, and set up the Queen of Scots, and marry her to some English Lord, to be chosen by the Catholics, and confirmed by the Pope; their children to succeed them: to this purpose were to be employed Cardinal Allen for the English Eccleisastics, Sir Francis Inglefield for the Laikes, and the Bishop of Rosse for the Queen of Scots. 12. William Parry a Welshman, 1585. Read the whole story in Camden. Annal. part. 3. p. 391. Doctor of the Civil Law, sought occasion to kill the Queen, insinuating into her favour by telling her that he had found out treasonable intents in Morgan and other fugitives, who practised her destruction: and that he had conferred with them closely to find their purposes, and keep her safe, desiring her leave to do so still, and to have access unto her to discover what he found. But Parry himself in good time being suspected, accused, taken, imprisoned, and examined by grave Counsellors, at last freely confessed, that in France, and from Rome by Cardinal Como, he was confirmed, that it was lawful and meritorious to kill the Queen: and especially by D. Allens book written against the justice of England, and that he was employed to that purpose; for which he was executed. Cap. 9 Camd ib. part. 3 pag 399. 13. Henry Percy Earl of Northumberland (though pardoned for his rebellion 16. years before, restored and made Earl by the Queen's mercy, yet) practised with Mendoza and Throgmorton to put down Elizabeth and set up the Queen of Scots, and being imprisoned, killed himself with a Pistol, was found dead, the door bolted on the inside: oh mischievous popishness, the ruin of many Noble houses! Camd. ib. p 431. & seq. Read it there at large. 14. Savage also vowed to kill the Queen, as did also George G●fford a pensioner, hired by the Guise for a great sum of money, and persuaded by Doctor Gifford, Gilbert Gifford and Hodgeson Priests, that it was lawful and meritorious. 15. And Ballard a Priest, walking in a soldier's habit, and calling himself Captain Foscue, promised an invasion by the Pope, Spaniard, Guise, and D. of Parma: he told Babington of the Queen's death to be acted by Savage, persuaded him to see the Queen of Scots favour, and drew more heroik Actors (as they called them) into the conspiracy, Tilney, Tichburne, Abington, Barnewell, Charnocke, besides others for other purposes, Windsor, Salisbury, Gage, Traverse, jones, Dun. And they practised how to stir Ireland, to draw Arundel and his brethren, and Northumberland to their side, and call Westmoreland, Paget, and others home. But Sir Francis Walsingham found out all the plot, by means of one Gifford a brother false to them, but true to the State, so that when the project was ripe, and the Queen made acquainted, the Traitors (though fled and dispersed) were taken, convicted, and executed. Cap. 10. Camd. ib. p. 483. 16. Anno 1587. Many discontented persons still continually haunted the Queen of Scots like evil spirits tempting her. L'Aubespineus the French Ambassador lieger, went about by treason to free her, moving William Stafford (whose mother was of the Queen's Bedchamber) to kill the Queen, by poison, Gunpowder, or rather sword. Trappius the Ambassador's Secretary persuaded Stafford and Moody, but Stafford revealed all to the Queen's Council: Trappius was intercepted going into France. The Ambassador being called before the Council, denied all: but Stafford affirmed it to his face. The Lord Burleigh told him, though he were not punished, yet he was not justified. 17. Shortly after, Camd. ib. part. 4. pag. 843. William Stanley and Rowland York became Traitors: York being made Captain of a Sconce near Zutphen, betrayed it to the Spaniard: and Stanley betrayed to them the rich fenced Town of Deventer; and sent for Priests to teach his English and Irish the Popish Religion; being in number 1300. calling them The Seminary legion (as the Seminary Priests) ordained to defend the Romish Religion. Not long after, York was poisoned: Stanley tossed from place to place ignominiously; and his fellows some died for hunger, some stole away, himself was never trusted: for the Spaniards used to say, Some honour might be given to a traitor, but no trust: and he found too late, he had most of all betrayed himself. 18. The marvelous, climacterical, Cap. 11. &. 72. See the whole history hereof in Camden's Annals, part. 3. pag. 513. & seq. & Meteranus. & Hakluits voyages, & Speeds chron. and fatal year (as some called it) 1588. whereupon the superstitious built great hopes, brought forth the Spanish Armado a Navy by them termed invincible, furnished with the best experienced and famous Captains and soldiers from Spain, Italy, Sicily, America, and all other places, to be gotten, to conquer England by huge force, which had before been vainly attempted by false treachery. It consisted of 130. ships, 19290. soldiers: Mariners 8350. chained rowers 2080. Great Ordnance 2630. Unto which, the Prince of Parma in Flanders was to adjoin his forces, building ships and broad vessels to transport 30. horses a piece with twenty thousand vessels, with 103. companies on foot, and 4000 horsemen, and among these were 700. English fugitives. These were blessed by the Pope, and with the Catholics prayers and intercessions to Saints: and for greater terror to the English, a book was set out of all the preparation in particulars, which was so great through Spain, Italy, Sicily, and the Low-countries, that the Spaniards themselves were in admiration of their own forces. Pope Sixtus Quintus sent Cardinal Allen, (who wrote a pestilent book to discourage the English, and encourage their own side) by him renewing the Bulls of Pius 5. and Gregory 13. and excommunicating the Queen again, deposing her, absolving her subjects from all allegiance: and setting forth a printed Cruciata of full pardons, to all that joined against England. Whereupon the marquis à Burgaw of the house of Austria, the Duke of Pastrana, Amady Duke of Savoy, Vespasian Gonzaga, john Medici's, and divers other Noblemen were drawn into these wars. And yet in the mean season, to gull the English, and make them more negligent, the Prince of Parma sent to the Queen to entreat of peace: so that Commissioners were sent into the Low-Countries about that entreaty, but the business was cunningly protracted with promises and delays, until the Spanish Fleet was come near the English shore, and their Guns heard from the Sea, and Parmas' forces brought to the shore. Yet God so blessed our English forces, that they got the wind, played upon them, took many of their ships, sunk many, driven the rest out of the Channel, and in a month's space so dispersed them, that they durst not return; but fled about beyond Scotland and Ireland, losing many by the way, and returned to Spain with sorrow, loss, and shame: the English having lost only one ship, and scarce an hundred men in beating and chase them. For which our safety and victory, our Gracious Queen Elizabeth with her Nobles and Citizens of London in their colours, resorted to the Cathedral Church of Saint Paul's and gave God humble and hearty thanks, and shown the banners taken from the enemies, with public joy. Many both at home and abroad wrote Poems and Epigrams, of this great enterprise so happily defeated, and I, this one Numeral verse, noting the year, and the business, Est DeVs Ang LorV M pVgnaX qVI strauIt Iberos. 19 Cap. 13. Comd Annal. part. 4 pag 6●3. The King of Spain practised both to do away Don Antonio King of Portugal, and also to poison Queen Elizabeth, by means of D. Lopez a jew, her Physician, for fifty thousand crowns, which was discovered by letters intercepted, and he committed to the Tower, yet he denied it with vehement oaths and execrations; and though the knot of this treason was most closely carried, yet by diligent examination it was confessed by Pedro Ferrera, Steven Ferrera, and Manoel Lowis Tinoco, and at the last by Lopez himself, saying, Indeed he had so covenanted with the Spaniard, with a purpose to get the money, and bring it to the Queen, and then to reveal the whole matter unto her: and that to that end he had spoken to Ferrera, Andreda, Ibarra, Count Fuentes, etc. by mouth, messengers, and letters; but never intending to do it. This under his hand, Febr. 25. 1593. Roger Lopez. It was confessed also, that Lopez should have the money brought to Antwerp: that the King of Spain should be informed of the very day, when the act should be done, that he might cause the Queen's ships to be burned, and the I'll of Wight to be surprised. 20. Edward Squire, Cap. 14. See Camd. ib. p. 725. & 843. having been a Scrivener at Greenwich, and afterwards one of the Queen's Stable; going in a voyage to the Indies with Sir Francis Drake, was taken and brought into Spain; and there in prison was wrought upon by Walpoole the jesuite, and the Inquisition, and finally by pain and poverty became perfectly jesuited, and persuaded to kill the Queen of England by empoisoning her saddles pummel, with poison which they delivered him in a bladder, teaching him how to use it. He performed all accordingly, but it took none effect, but only brought the traitor to his untimely end: for Walpool grieving that it was not performed, spoke of it to some, by whom it came to light, and he being examined, confessed the whole matter. Cap. 15. Comd. ib. p. 573. & 617. 635. 655. & seq & 701. 21. Tyrone a bastard (having had such favour of Q. Elizabeth as to be made Earl, and twice pardoned, once for murder, and again for usurping the title of O-neal) being a banished fugitive, lurked in Spain, and promised to do some service to the Pope and Spaniard: and being set on by them anno 1597. he assailed the Fort of Blackwater, but being crossed by the English forces, and proclaimed traitor, he fell down before the Queen's picture and craved pardon, and yet at the same present dealt for aid out of Spain. But a cessation of Arms being granted, he still harried and wasted the Country and made many revolt, still suing dissemblingly for pardon. Thomas L. Burrugh, Deputy defeated the rebels, took the Fort of Blackwater. But Tyrone beleaguered it: the Deputy dying 1598. Henry Bagnal, came with 14. Ensigns against him, and there lost his life, with 15. other Captaynes slain, and 1500. soldiers put to flight, so that Tyrone took the Fort of Blackwater, furnished with armour and munition, which was the greatest loss that ever the English received since their first footing in Ireland. And thus the rebellion was increased, and became so dangerous, that the Queen sent the Earl of Essex with an army of 20000. against them, to wit, 16000 foot, and 4000 horse; who not going directly against Tyrone, but labouring to clear other parts, and affording parley with Tyrone a rebel, and granting a cessation of war for some time, Cap. 16. much offended the Queen, so that she wrote somewhat sharply to Essex, because the Spring, Summer, and Autumn were spent without service against the arch-rebel, many men lost, much money spent, the rebels were encouraged, and Ireland hazarded whereupon Essex posted home to pacify the Queen, but was presently confined to his own house, and after to the custody of the Lord Keeper. Mean while, Tyrone revolted, and stirred, receiving money from Spain, and indulgences from Rome, with a plume of Phoenix feathers for an especial favour. Anno 1600. Clarls Blunt Lord Monicy came Lieutenant General, and with great celerity and felicity slew and chased many of the rebels, and removed Tyrone from the Fort of Blackewater. Now the Spaniard sent Don john D' Aquila General of his forces into Ireland, and the Pope elected a Spaniard to be Archbishop of Dublin, employing also the Bishop of Clowfort, the Bishop of Killalo, and Archer a jesuite. Aquila with 2000 old trained Spaniards, and some Irish fugitives, landed at Kinsale the last of October 1600. and drew many to him. Our Deputy encamped near, and Sir Richard Levison with two ships enclosed the haven, and our Canons played on the Town. News of 2000 more Spaniards arrived at Bear-haven, Baltimer, & Castle-haven, drew Levison thither, who sunk five of their ships. To their leader Alfonso O Campo, came Odonel, and shortly after Tyrone, with Oroik, Raymund, Burk, Mac Mahim, Randal, Mac Surly, Tarrel the Baron of Lixnaw with the choice Nobles, making 6000. foot, and 500 horse, confident of victory, being more and in better plight, than the traveled, wearied English, which were also pinched of victuals. I tell you this thus largely, to show the greatness of the danger, and our men's valour. Tyrone now went about to put 300. Irish and other supplies of Spaniards into Kinsale: but our Deputy prevented him, gave him a great overthrow, and slew many. Tyrone, Odonel, and the rest, fling away their weapons and fled. Alfonso O Campo, and six Ensign bearers were taken prisoners: nine Ensigns were borne away by the English, and 1200. Spaniard's slain. Don D' Aquila sought peace, confessed the Deputy to be an honourable person; the Irish, uncivil, and perfidious; Peace was granted, for the Spaniards to be gone, to have victuals and ships for money at reasonable prices: the ships to pass and return safely, hostages given, and so they departed. The Deputed pursued the rebels from hole to hole, building ramparts still as he went, and receiving many Fortts. Tyrone finally came in, submitted, and when he was to be sent into England, Queen E●izabeth a Conqueror of all her foes, died. King james entering, pardoned Tyrone. But he afterwards stirring again and fearing deserved punishment, fled out of Ireland, and left it to b● planted with more civil people. Cap 17 Read this story in Speeds Chronicle. 22. In King james his time, Watson and Clarke Papist Priests entered a strange conspiracy to surprise the King (ere he was crowned) and Prince Henry, to keep them in the Tower, or convey them to Dover Castle, and seize upon their treasures till they had obtained their purpose, to wit, to get their pardons, alteration of Religion, removal of some Counsellors, and some other projects executed. In this practice were involved Henry Brooke L. Cobham, Thomas L. Grace of Wilton, Sir Walter Raleigh, Sir Griffin Markham, Sir Edward Parham, George Brooke, B●rtholomew Brooksby, and Anthony Copley: who were all apprehended, committed, and condemned, save Sir Edward Parham who only was acquitted by the jury Watson, Clark, and Brook executed; the rest pardoned their lives. A foolish conspiracy, having neither strength to act the business, nor heads to carry it. Cap. 18. Speeds Chronicle. 23. The upshot of all the Romish irreligious practices was the powder treason anno 1605. contrived by Henry Garnet the Archpriest or chief governor of all the jesuits and Priests in England, or with his knowledge and allowance, by Catesby, Robert Winter, Thomas Winter, Thomas Percy, john Wright, Christopher Wright, Guy Fauks, Francis Tressam, john Grant, Bates Catesbies' man, Robert Keys, St Euerard Digby, Ambrose Rookwood. Some of these wrought in a secret mine beginning in Percies hired house, to be continued through a strong wall under the Parliament house, with very great labour and difficulty. But ere that mine was made through the wall, they found means to hire the room just under the Parliament house, to lay in provision of wood and coals. In which room they couched secretly at one time twenty barrels of gunpowder, and afterwards more, covering them with Faggots and Billets, which they purposed (when the King, Prince, Nobles and all Parliament-men were assembled above) to set on fire with a train of gunpowder, to blow up the house, and murder all therein in one instant. And at the same time they appointed a great hunting to be at Dunnesmore heath, to draw multitudes of people, get certain great horses into their hands, and to seize on the Lady Elizabeth the King's daughter lying near that place, to proclaim her Queen (upon news of her Fathers and brethren's death) serving her a while, till they had made themselves strong enough to sway the State, and to set up another fit for their purpose; crying out continually of the Puritans as authors of the King's death, and of blowing up the house. This most mischievous plot came to light by occasion of a letter sent from an unknown person to the Lord Mount Eagle, warning him to absent himself from the Parliament, for that there should a great blow be given which might endanger him, and the danger might be passed as soon as he had burned the letter. With this letter the Lords being acquainted, shown it to the King, who presently conceived some treason by Gunpowder, and appointed the rooms under the Parliament to be searched. The search was made secretly in the dead of the night, and Fanks was found and taken with his matches and powder, laid hold of, and upon the removal of the Billets and Faggots, 36. barrels of Gunpowder found: all which when Fauks saw discovered, he confessed what he meant to have done. Winter and the two wright's hasted from London to carry the news of the discovery of their plot to their fellow hunters near Coventry: where Gra●rt with help of other violent Papists had broken one Benoks stable, and taken out some great horses (sent thither by some Noble men to be managed) for which the Country rose to pursue them. But upon this news, they rose into open rebellion, hoping to draw multitudes unto them. But the Sheriffs of the Counties preventing the swiftness of proclamations, raising the Countries pursued them, so that finally the chiefest of them entered into Steven Littleton's house at Holbeach in Staffordshire to shroud themselves, and the house being assaulted by the Sheriff, as they were drying some Gunpowder in the house, the fire took it, blasted and disabled the faces of some of the chiefest rebels, and discouraged them (that God by such powder as they meant to destroy others themselves were scourged) so that they fell on their knees and cried God mercy for their bloody intents: and presently opened the gates, and desperately sought their own destruction. Catesby, Percy and Winter joining back to back, the two first were slain with one shot, the third taken alive: the other whole, or lightly hurt, carried away prisoners, and sent to London: where with the rest of their fellows (as they had formerly lived blindly, and practised desperately, so) they by the just doom of the Law, died miserably, leaving their memory to be cursed throughout all generations. First, by all this, you may see how vain your conceit is, that the Popes in these latter times have been more moderate, and become more like to their first Ancestors; nay you see, the abuse of their Supremacy hath increased and grown more untollerable. In these last times they have set up Schools at Rome and Rheims to train men up to the defence and practice of Idolatry and treasons: See before Book 1 c. 6. §. 4. Camd. Anna●. pag 315. 348. & a libi passim. out of which (as out of the Trojan Horse) have proceeded innumerable wicked instruments, troublers of the Church and Commonwealth, Incendiaries, homicides (for Kings are men) parricides (for Kings are Fathers of the Commonwealth) yea Christicides (for Kings are the Lords Anointed) yea Deicides (for Kings are called gods) and regnicides (the quellers of the Commonwealth.) Never was any Doctrine so fruitful of Treasons and Rebellions. The desire to maintain it, the hunger to plant it again, hath been the only cause to the superstitious, and pretence to the covetous and ambitious, of all late treasons. The traitors ever confirmed by the Doctrine of their books, the exhortations of their tongues, and the Sacrament delivered by their hands, & many of their Priests partakers and actors of their crimes. The knowledge and experience of the intolerable mischief of this doctrine doth justify our Laws that were sharpened against the practisers of it, See Cambd. Annals 4. pa t. 842, 843. as many of your own Priests have confessed. Secondly, you may note, that never any Nation was so often, so strangely, so strongly, so devilishly assaulted and endangered with treasons, as this our land: and on the other side, never any Nation so strangely and mightily defended, and the traitors confounded. Thirdly, consider whether these actions be not manifest tokens of a false religion. If we must judge the tree by his fruits (as Christ teacheth us) how can the tree be good that bringeth forth such fruits? Mat. 12.33. Are those true Prophets (howsoever they come in sheep's clothing) that do the acts of Wolves? No, you shall know them by their fruits, to be false Prophets. Mat. 7.15.16. Beware of them. Your Bellarmine giveth it for one note of the true Church, Sanctity of life and doctrine. If these things so taught and practised taste of sanctity: what is villainy? Your Gospel is not the Gospel of peace, but of confusion and mischief, in stead of building the Church, it ruins Commonwealths and kingdoms. Fourthly, look well, Bellarm. ●e notis Ecclesiae, Nota 15. if God's protection and blessings be notes of the true Church (as your Bellarmine teacheth) what think you of ours, which God hath so mightily defended and blessed, even when Balaam most cursed? Though you never ceased heaving at our foundations, Church, and Princes, in these two last Princes times, Queen Elizabeth and King james, yet they have both lived to see all your wicked practices overthrown; the practisers ruined, their peoples defended, God's truth maintained; they lived happily, died in their beds peaceably, and left a blessed memorial behind them. Our one Queen brought more happiness to us, than nine Popes did to Reme, who all lived in her time; Paul 4. Pius 4. Pius 5. Gregory 13. Sixtus 5. Vrbanus 7. Gregory 14. Innocent 9 Clemens 8. They wrestled against her and cursed her in vain; and their curses fell upon their own heads: and King james wounded the learnedst of th●ir leaders with his pen. Lastly, consider well, whether they that persuade you to be absolute Roman Catholics, do not in deed and effect persuade you to be traitors, troublers of the world, cursed and devilish people! for perfect and absolute Papists are no better, as you may see by these manifold examples of these treasons: and therefore it is a wonder, that Princes do not concur to root out this wicked Sect, that make wickedness godliness, yea that make a traffik of Kings sacred lives, to set up an Idol of man's invention at Rome above them all. §. 13. Antiq. Good Sir, I do not hold that the Pope hath any such power over Kings to depose them and set up others, or to dispense with subjects oaths of allegiance, or to raise wars or other troubles against civil Magistrates. I find many good Catholics do reject and condemn such doctrine and practices: they take the oath of allegiance willingly; and writ in defence of it. I hold (with all my heart a Conference of D. Rainolds & M. Hart. in Hart● preface to the Reader. ) that the Pope hath only a fatherhood of the Church, not a princehood of the world, or dominion over Princes temporal states, to depose or dispose any way of them. For Christ said, His kingdom was not of this world b joh. 18.36. : he paid ribute to secular Magistrates c Mat. 17.27. : meddled not with temporal matters, no not with division of inheritance amongst brethren d Luk. 12.14. : he acknowledged Pilate to have power to crucify him, and power to release him, even lawful power given him from above e joh. 19.10 1● : Saint Paul acknowledged Caesar to be his lawful judge f Acts 25.10. : and Saint Peter (the first Bishop of Rome) taught thus, g 1 Pet. 2.13. Subiecti estote omni humanae creaturae propter Deum, sive regi, etc. Be subject to every humane creature for the Lords sake, whether it be to the King, as excelling: or to rulers as sent by him to the revenge of malefactors, but to the praise of the good. Saint Paul taught every soul to be subject to the higher powers h Rom 13 1. . By those higher powers, meaning secular and civil Magistrates i As the jesuits Pererius and Tolet (in locum) observe out of the Fathers. , that bear the sword: be subject to them, not only for fear of wrath, but for conscience sake k Rom. 13.5. . And who must be subject to them? all sorts of people, both Ecclesiastical and secular, even Apostles, Evangelists and Prophets, saith Saint chrysostom l Chrysost. in locum. Ista Imperantur omnibus, & sacerdotibus, & mona●his, non solum secularibus Omnis anima etiamsi Apostolus sis, si Euangelista, si Propheta, sive quisquis tandem fueris. , And Saint Bernard m Bernard. epist. ad Episcopum Senonensem. Omnio anima; tum vestra: quis vo● excipit? qui tentat excipere, tentat decipere. writing to a Bishop, tells him he is not excepted from temporal subjection to Princes, he that excepts him, deceives him. Our late gracious Sovereign King james n King james Apology for the oath of Allegiance. p●g 23. & deinceps. allegeth many Fathers, Saint Augustin, Tertullian, justine Martyr, Ambrose, Optatus, Gregory Bishop of Rome, for subjection even of Bishops and Popes to the secular Emperors and Princes. He allegeth many Counsels, six under Charles the Great, to wit, of Frankford, Arles, Towers, Chalons, Me●tz, and Rheims: yea all the General Counsels, that of Nice, Constantinople, Ephesus, Chalcedon, and the rest, who submitted themselves to the Emperor's wisdom and piety in all things, and desired from him power and validity to their decrees: and for the oath of Allegiance he allegeth divers Counsels. These Scriptures, Fathers, Counsels are so plain, so plentiful, so powerful with me, for giving dominion to Princes, and subiecting all, both Clergy and Laity unto them in all civil things: that all the world shall never draw me to deny my Allegiance and subjection to my Sovereign: but I will readily take Arms in his defence, as God's Lieutenant and Deputy, though the Pope should excommunicate him. Antiquis. I joy to hear your good resolution, built upon so good grounds: I hope than you justify us Protestants for departing from the Popish Religion in this point. Antiq. I must needs do so; and I do not think them true Catholics that hold and practise this point of Supremacy. Papists they may be (as you term them) for so holding with the Pope: but Catholics they cannot be, for this Doctrine is not Catholic. §. 14. Antiquis. Do you not see also how greatly you shake the Pope's authority by this means, and overturn the foundation of his Supremacy? for your Popes have both claimed and practised this full authority as well in civil and temporal things as in Ecclesiastical, and upon the same grounds. And your learned Doctors think their grounds as firm for the one as for the other. Your Great Bellarmine (upon whom you so much rely) saith, o Bellarm. de Pont. Rom l. 5. cap. 6. initio. Although the Pope as Pope, hath not any more temporal power (which other Doctors say he hath) yet so fare as it may make for the spiritual good, he hath supreme power to dispose of the temporal things of all Christians. And p Ib. cap. 7. he labours to prove that the Pope may depose Princes and dispose of their kingdoms, if he find it good for the Church: as a shepherd may deal with Wolves and unruly Rams, and other sheep. And many of your Doctors have the like, as Eudaemon, joannes Sidonius, Suarez, Becanus, Mariana, Grotzerus, Costerus, Baronius, Sanders, Allen, and thousands more. Antiq. I am very sorrowful that so great learned men should hold such an opinion, I hold them erroneous and evil. Antiquis. Then you must confess that the Church of Rome may err, and that in a main point both of doctrine and practice, to the great hurt of the Catholic Church, and many men's destruction both of body and soul, in being traitors and rebels against their Sovereigns, and murderers of people, of which crimes your Popes and Doctors are guilty. Antiq. I must needs grant that some have erred in the Church, but not the whole Church, neither (I hope) hath any Pope taught this Ex Cathedra. Antiquis. This some is a large some, the greatest part of your Church, and I think the Pope teacheth it Ex Cathedra, when he decrees it out of his Pontifical judgement and authority, and sends out his judicial excommunications under seal against Princes to depose them (as Pius 5. did against our Queen Elizabeth) and Breefes to forbid his Catholics to take the oath of civil Allegiance (as Paulus 5. did to our English.) Now consider well what you grant: in effect, that the greatest part of the Church, yea, the most conspicuous and eminent men in the Church, and the Pope also, may err in some great and dangerous point; and yet because some few inferior and obscure persons hold the truth, the true Church is still sufficiently visible and illustrious. This you had not wont to yield to the Protestants. See card. Perons' oration in the third inconvenience. In K Iam●s his Remonstrance p. 183. 187. etc. Cardinal Perone dare not grant it, but saith, this would prove the Church of Rome to be Antichristian and heretical, and to have ceased to be the Spouse of Christ for a long time, and to have taught many points without authority, as Transubstantiation, auricular confession, etc. (for these he ranketh with the Pope's power to depose Kings: and if the Scriptures yield no ground for the one, no more do they for the other.) These and divers other points (which they hold different from us) have no other ground, but the authority of that Church, which is found to err in great and dangerous matters. See this in B. Whites answer alleged p. 87 Your own learned jesuite Mr Fisher, upon whose judgement your English Roman Catholics do much rely, saith, Th●t if the Church could deliver, by consent of Ancestors, together with truth, some errors: her Traditions, even about the truth, were questionable, and could not be believed upon the warrant of her Tradition: and this he proveth substantially. Neither do we receive doctines upon the Churches warrant, only (as Doctor White there largely & learnedly showeth) but upon their agreeing with the holy Scriptures. Now we may assume; The Church of Rome doth deliver by consent of many Ancestors (from Gregory 7. time to our times) some errors (as this concerning her power to depose Kings, and dissolve oaths of Allegiance, etc.) Ergo her traditions (or teaching) are questionable, and cannot be believed upon the account of her Tradition, Consequently, all other her doctrines not grounded upon Scripture, are questionable, and our subjection to her judgement unnecessary. Antiq. Truly, if I grant the former doctrine of her power to depose Kings &c. to be erroneous (as I must needs grant) I know not how to avoid this reason. 1 Book 1. cap 1. And therefore not to trouble you longer at this time: Since you have showed me, 1. that your Church differeth nothing from the Romish Church in the old true doctrine which it continueth, but only in some corruptions which it hath added: and that 2. corruptions may in time come into any particular Church (the Roman not excepted, 2 cap. 2. but warned thereof by the Scriptures) 3. 3 cap. 3. showing also the time when they grew observable and notorious in the Roman Church: 4 cap. 4. and 4, that they were opposed from time so time, and reformation called for: 5 cap. 5. showing also 5. the principal points wherein the difference consists, and that you hold all necessary doctrines: 6 cap. 6. 6. misliking many policies by them used to maintain their new corruptions. And further have showed me, Book 2. that this your Church for the substance of the doctrine thereof, hath always been visible, 7. as all one with the Primitive Church, 7 cap. 1. and the Greek and Eastern Churches, and the Waldenses that separated from the corruptions of the Papacy, yea and with the Roman Church itself, excepting the Papacy and the maintainers thereof: although in some 8, 8 cap. 2. ceremonies and private opinions both you and the Romish have departed from foam Fathers (wherein 9 9 cap. 3 also there was difference among themselves as there is also still among the Roman Doctors.) And further you have showed me 10. 10. cap 4. a Rule to judge all Churches and Christians by: By which Rule (judged right by the Roman Doctors) you approve yourselves to hold all things necessary to salvation, and thereby to be the true Church of God, and agreeing therein with all true Churches that are or ever were in the world: yea and that 11. 11 cap, 5. your Bishops and Ministers have as good succession from the Apostles, as any other in the world: although 12. 12 cap. 6. 13. cap. 7. you admit not the B. of Rome's Supremacy over all Churches and Christians in the world: neither 13. his Infallibility: both which you prove to be unknown, and unreceived of the Ancients, and 14. 14 cap. 8. both unprofitable and untollerable in the Church of God: Since all this you have delivered with such plentiful and pregnant proofs, as I have nothing (for the present) to say against them: I must needs thankfully confess that they sway much with me; yet will I not be rash to resolve upon a sudden, without further meditation, and consultation with men of better judgement than myself: but I promise you, if you (at our next meeting) can as well satisfy me in the particular points of Doctrine, as you have now presently in these general objections, I shall be very inclinable with all due reverence to return unto your Church. Antiquis. Dear friend, I pray God bless your meditations and consultations. I have told you the truth from my heart, so fare as my reading and judgement could direct me. Quaere doctiores. Inuenies praesumptiores. Seek more learned, you shall haply find them that will presume more of their learning (as Saint Augustine said) such as will seek rather the victory than the Truth. I am old, past my climacterical year (as they call the year 63.) other men may have death at their backs, I have him always before my face. I was never dissembler, and least of all now, having one foot in the grave. Meditate upon that I have said; and especially read the holy Scriptures, the Cloud and Pillar to guide you to the land of Promise, the Light and Lantern to your feet: quick and lively in operation to move your heart. And when you are either to read, meditate, or confer first, shut yourself in your Closet, or private Chamber, there fall down humbly upon your knees, and pray the most gracious God, to illuminate your mind, and make pliable your heart, for true divine faith: For all your reading and conference, study and meditation can work no more than humane faith, builded upon humane testimonies, which may prepare good entrance and introduction to divine faith, which must afterwards be fully wrought, confirmed, and sealed by the holy Ghost; all our planting and watering is nothing without this. The testimony of the Church, of histories, of former ages (which yet only the Romish pretend to rely upon, and call us thereunto▪ and wherein we prove ourselves superiors, and, which are the greatest assurances that man's wit or humane means can afford, yet) are fare short of begetting the Faith that assureth of the Truth, and saveth either them or us, without the divine working and assurance of the holy Ghost: whose guidance and heavenly influence seek for by servant and diligent prayer. And so I commend you to God's grace. FINIS. An Appendix. Christian Reader, after I had sent this book to the Printer, there came to my hands, a worthy learned book of Doctor Morton, Bishop of Coventry and Lichfield, entitled, The grand Imposture of the (now) Church of Rome: which I commend unto thy diligent reading, for thy yet-fuller satisfaction in that main point. There thou shalt see many of those Histories, which I have alleged briefly (especially in my later Chapters) more largely discoursed, & thoroughly urged, against all possibility of contradiction. And now, for a peroration or conclusion, beside my former proofs, I offer unto thee these three weighty considerations, to meditate upon. I. Of the excellent benefit of pure Primitive Religion. II. Of the evils of false or corrupted Religion. III. Of the great blessings of the Reformation thereof. Think not thy time lost, nor thy labour long in reading them. CHristian Religion, I. Of the excellent benefit of pure Primitive Religion. when the excellency of it was once known, was embraced as the greatest benefit that ever came unto Mankind: because it not only brought men out of darkness into light, to the knowledge of the true God, and of themselves and of the most comfortable means of their salvation; but also because it trained up men in all things profitable for this present life and made a second heaven upon earth. That City Country, and Nation, was found to prosper in wealth, peace, honesty, diligence in every Calling, faithfulness among men, sobriety in themselves, obedience to Magistrates, and all kind of goodness, where it was received, and where both people and Governors feared God, and served him as he had prescribed. ●●●y 11.6. For it wrought a wonderful blessed change in all true believers hearts, fare beyond all Laws and Ordinances of Man. Of Wolves they became Lambs; of Vultures, Doves; of Leopards, Kids; of Asps and Cockatrices, Innocents' and Children; of Barbarous, Savage, and rude people, they became civil, devout, just clean, peaceable, and holy. All vices rooted out all virtues planted in their hearts, and practised in their lives. Whereupon followed peace, love, unity, prosperity, and felicity in the Christian world. Pliny lib. 10. Epist. 97. citat. à Baronio anno 1●4. num. 3. Pliny certified the Emperor, that upon his thorow-search and full knowledge of Christians, he found them strongly bound together by Sacraments (or oaths) not to do any wicked thing; But, not to commit these, robberies murders, deceit, or deny any things committed to their trust or keeping, etc. Baron. tom. 2. an. 195. nu. 21. Euseb. Praeparat. Evangel. lib. 6. cap. ●. Baronius cities Bardezanus Syrus giving this testimony to the Christians, that in whatsoever City or Country they lived (Persia, Media, Parthia, Egypt, or other barbarous Nations) they quite changed the nature and qualities of men, to forsake and abandon their old, wild, unjust, beastly customs, and become just, chaste, honest, charitable, suffering people. And although some Emperors and Princes for a time persecuted Christians, upon misinformation that they were enemies to their state and dignity, and a rebellious kind of people: yet in time they found the contrary and favoured them above all others. Tertul. ad Scapulam liber. pag. 162, 163. Tertullian writing to Scapula the Precedent tells him, A Christian is no man's enemy, much less enemy to the Emperor, whom Christians know to be ordained by their God; and they are compelled by their Religion, to love, reverence, and honour him, and to seek his safety with the safety of the whole Empire. And therefore they profess & say, Colimus Jmperatorem sic, quomodo & nobis licet, & ipsi expedit, ut hominem à deo secundum, & quicquid est, a deo consecutum, solo deo minorem. We honour and obey the Emperor so fare as is lawful for us, and needful for him, that is, as a man next under God, and having obtained of God, whatsoever he is, being inferior to God alone. Origen testifies that the Church of God was ever calm and quiet at Athens though the Athenians were turbulent and seditious. So also at Corinth. Alexandria, Origen contra Celsum lib. 3. Baron. tom. 2. an. 1●5. n. 2. and every where, the Church was fare more excellent than the best composed Commonwealth. Gregory the great, Bishop of Rome, Greg lib. 7. epist. 8 cited by K●ng james Remonstr. pag. 137. & Apolog. for the oath of Allegiance, pag. 94. 600 years after Christ's birth, professeth that he had power to ruin the Lombard's, his sworn enemies, and to bring them to extreme confusion: yet for the fear of God settled in his heart, he never had any such intent. And he writeth to Mauritius the Emperor, that although a certain Law (which the Emperor commanded to be proclaimed) was in his judgement, unjust; Greg. lib 2. Indict. 11. ep 61. cited also by King james. Apol. pag. 24. yet he as a dutiful subject, and unworthy servant of his godliness, had caused it to be sent into diverse parts of his dominions: paying to both parties what he ought to wit, obedience to the Emperor, and speaking what he thought for God. Espencaeus in Tit. digress. 10. aedit. Paris. 1568. Whereupon B. Espenceus saith Gregorius primus, idem & magnus lib. 2. epist. 64. Gregory the first, called also the Great, ingenuously acknowledged that God had granted the Emperors a dom nion over Priests. This Gregory I, and his predecessors were plain contrary to Gregory VII and his successors. Bozius makes it one of the signs of the Church of God that it yielded so many Martyrs, Bozius de signis Eccles tom● 1. lib. 7. cap. 5. §. 5. suffering patiently under cruel Emperors and Princes, seven and twenty Roman Bishops, for their only cleaving to the doctrine and honour of Christ. Greg Tolossan. 1. V Doctor lib. 26. de Repub. cap. vlt. 〈◊〉. 10. And Gregorius Tolossanus, Doctor of the Laws saith, That for 300 years after Christ's Passion, though Christians suffered most cruel torments and death,— yet we never read they rebelled against their Princes, nor moved against the Commonwealth, though they had number and power sufficient But by that argument they shown that they and their Religion were to be preferred before all other, because their p●●us doctrine taught the● to obey Magistrates Whiles therefore the Church continued such a school of good life among Christians, and of faithful loyalty & true subjection to Princes, Rom. 13.5. whom they obeyed not only for fear of punishment but especially because they were boun● in conscience and so taught by their holy Relig on: B. King. Sermon at York on the Queen's day, 1595. Religion was ●he joy, glory, and happiness of the world. It was the glor● of Princes and Emperors to maintain it and it was the glory of the Church to maintain them. Constantius, the father of Constantine the Great, made more reckoning (he said) of those that professed Christianity, than o● great treasures. Jovianus after Julian, refused to be Emperor (albeit elected and sought to the Emp re) except he might govern Christians. Great Constantine, and Charles the Great had their surnames of greatness not so much for authority, Aug. de civet. Dei lib. 5. 6. 24. as for godliness Saint Au●ustine saith Emperors were not therefore happy, because they reigned long, or left sons to reign after them, or tamed enemies, or quieted rebelling subjects etc. but because they ruled justly remembered they were men, when men almost made them Go●s; used their power to promote God's honour, loved feared, worshipped God; loved that kingdom best, wherein they feared not to have partakers slowly revenged, easily pardoned; punished for necessity to preserve the Commonwealth, not to serve their private hatred; pardoned, not to impunity of evil but for hope of amendment: and if compelled to deal more sharply, recompensed it with mercy, lenity, and largesse of benefits: ●f their luxury was so much the more restrained, as it might be more free: if they had rather rule their evil lusts, than any Nations: and all these, not for desire of vain glory, but for the love of heavenly felicity,— Such a happy Emperor was Great Constantine, Ibid. cap. 25, 26. Constantine was celebrated in the old Marbles, with these titles, Vrbis liberator, quietis fundator, reipubilicae instautator publicae, libertatis auctor, restitutor urbis Romae, atque orbis. Magnus, maximus, invictus. And in the laws, Qui veneranda Christianorum fide Romanum munivit imperium. Divus. Divae memoriae. Divinae memoriae, etc. Camden Britannia in Yorkshire, describing York City. II. Of the evils of false or corrupted Religion. Esay 1.21. Rome Reuel. 17.9, 18. becante Babylon, v 5, 2, 4. 6. Navel generat. 39 H Mulius Chron. Germane. lib 18. Usher De eccl. success. c. 7. §. 17. whom the Lord blessed also with all other happiness; and such an one was Theodosius, who desired rather to be a member of the Church, than a King over Peoples. Then was the world happy, when the Church bred and trained up the best people and subjects in the world: and Emperors, Kings, and Princes were the nursing Fathers of the Church: and so the one upheld the other, and the one was happy in the other. But, alas for grief, that ever so excellent a blessing should be corrupted, and turned to a curse and scourge to mankind! that jerusalem the whilom faithful City should become an Harlot! And Rome, the Imperial City (whose faith was spoken of through the whole world, Rom. 1.8.) should be turned into Babylon, the seat of Antichrist, and inebriate the Kings and Inhabiters of the earth, with the wine of her fornications, herself becoming drunken with the blood of the Saints, and Martyrs of jesus! that Emperors and Princes should shut the Cardinals out of their Churches and Cities, and write to the Pope their reason, because they found them nor Predicatores, sed Predatores, Non pacis corroboratores, sed Pecuniae raptores; non orbis Reparatores, sed auri Insatiabiles corrasores— denique superbiae detestabilem bestiam usque ad sedem Petri reptasse. So wrote the Emperor Frederick Barbarossa to the Pope, to wit, your Cardinals come not to preach unto us, but to pray upon us: not to strengthen our peace, but to ransack our purses: not to repair the decayed world, but unsatiably to ravine after gold.— Finally, we see the detestable beast of Pride hath crept even into Saint Peter's seat. The Hierarchy of Rome is here charged with unsatiable covetousness, (the root of all evil, 1 Tim. 6.10.) and Ambition or Pride, (the cause of the fall of Angels in heaven, and men in Paradise) from which two evils proceeded many mischiefs, & corruptions into the Church. Sabellicus observeth that the fear and reverence of Potent Princes, Sabellicus Ennead 9 lib. 1. Genebrard. Chronol. lib 4. in 10. saculi initio. Baron. tomo 10. anno 900. §. 1. Matth. 8.24, 25 kept the Popes of Rome a long time in some good moderation: but when they were out of fear of such Princes, they rushed into all impudence and wickedness. And Genebrard speaking of the tenth Age saith, Then was the world exhausted both of learned men, and potent Princes, and good pope's: and confesseth that in 150 years, there were about 50 pope's, utterly swerving from the virtue of their predecessors, and were rather Apotactici, Apostaticive, quam Apostolici; debauched Apostates, rather then Apostolic. Bellarmine and Baronius complain of the ninth and tenth Ages, wherein powerful and sordid Whores ruled at Rome, and at their pleasure changed the Seas, gave Bishoprickes, and brought their lovers or Harlots (Amasios suos) into Saint Peter's seat, as false pope's: that in those times Christ slept in the ship which was overwhelmed with the waves, and there was none to awaken him. For bad pope's set up bad Cardinals, bad Bishops, bad Priests, as nothing is more common, then for like to beget his like. And for the lives of the Romish Religious in general, Gerbertus said. The Gerbert. epist. 40. Romanorum mores mundus perhorrescit. citat. ab Vsserio cap. 2. § 32, 33. Romans manners are abhorred of the world. Werner. fasc. temp aetat. 6. circa an. 944. Sanctitatem. Papas dimisisse, & ad Jmperatores accessisse. Wernerus, that holiness had forsaken the pope's, and betook itself to the Emperors: Cameracensis, Petrus de Alliaco Cardinal s Cameracensis. De Reform. Eccle. Ad hunc statum venit Ecclesia, ut non esset digna Regi, nisi per Reprobot. Usher c. 7. §. 7. The Church of Rome is come to this state, that it is not worthy to be governed but by Reprobates. Na●ele. vol. 3. ge●cra. 39 pag. 220. Nauclerus reports out of Joannes Flatzboricosis, that pope Adrian 4 said, No man was more wretched than the pope of Rome: and Onuph de Vitis Pontif●n vita Marcell. 2. addit. ad Pla inam pa 359. Onuphrius testifieth that Marcellus sitting one day at dinner, after long silence, remembering the words of Adrian 4 speaking of the troublesome bitter, and miserable lives of the pope's, and the difficulties of managing their estates: at last, striking his hand upon the table, said, Non vidio quomodo qui hunc locumallissimum tenont, salvari possunt. I see not how those that hold this high place of the popedom, can be saved. As if there were a necessity imposed upon the pope to be a wicked man, that his place required it, and that otherwise, he could not maintain his estate. This Genebrard. chrono. lib. 4. pag. 753. Marcellus lived, anno 1555. In our Queen Mary's time, and died the 22 day of his popedom, not without suspicion of poison (as Genebrard saith) because some doubted he would prove too good Quod nimbum rectus quibusdam futurus videretur. . Guicci ardin. lib. 16. pag. 586. lat edit. Basil. 1567. Tunc in Pontifice probitas laudatur, cum caeterorum hominum nequitiam non excedit. Guicciardine, describing the dissembling and unpriestly pranks of pope Leo the tenth (who began his reign, anno 1513,) saith, he was counted a good Prince; for then honesty is praised in a pope, when he exceeds not all other men in wickedness. Sarith. in Policratic. lib. 6. cap. 24. Usher. de statu & suc. Eccl. cap. 7. § 6. Joannes Sarisburiensis saith, The Church of Rome shows herself Not a Mother, but a stepmother. There sit the Scribes and Pharises, laying heavy burdens on men's shoulders, but touch them not with their least finger. There justice, Piety, and Verity are set to sale. They hurt most commonly: and herein they imitate the devils, which then are thought to do well, when they cease to do no hurt: except a few which perform the name and office of Pastors. Yea, even the Roman Bishop himself, is grievous to all, and almost intolerable. Thus writ their own Authors. Pope Gregory the 7. So saith Onuphrius in vita Greg 7. Aventine. Otto Frisingensis. Gotfridus Viturbiensis, Trithemius. Sigebert, and many other Catholic historians. See their allegations and words at large in B. Usher's book. De Eccles. successione & statu. cap. 5. (alias Hildebrand) who lived in the tenth Age, (and began his reign, anno 1073.) when Satan was let lose, Reu. 20.7. was the first that set up the pope's earthly kingdom, (instead of Christ's Heavenly) and raised it in wealth Majesty, and authority above all secular Princes and Emperors: which their successors have continually increased, maugre the world, maugre the Emperors, and have brought into subjection both high and low, terrifying all with their thunders: and embroiling the Christian world, with insurrections, wars, and miserable vexations, setting the subjects against their Princes, sons against their fathers, and making the Christian world, worse than the Heathen, a very Shambles of Christian blood. Very many (saith Aventine Plerique) cried out against Hildebrand, and cursed him, saying, That under the Title of Christ, he acted the business of Antichrist, and overthrew Peace and Piety; and to hide his execrable ambition, devised Fables, corrupted Histories, and adulterated the very Scriptures, interpreting them falsely to serve his own affections; Sir john Hayward of Supremacy. pag. 61. he made blind people believe that it was not sufficient to know and embrace the Catholic faith unless it were with subjection to the Pope: and that all that fought against the Pope, drew their swords against heaven, and ma●e offer (like those Giants, of whom the Poets writ) to scale the skies, and to pull God out of his throne. And that to fight for the Pope even against their own governors and natural Princes (whom the pope judged to be his enemies) was to fight for the Church and for God, was a meritorious work, and the most sure undoubted way to heaven. When this opinion was once planted in every state, by that opinion any state might be supplanted. Hist. of the Council of Trent. lib 5. pag. 437. It was well observed by the Chancellor in an Assembly of the States of France, at Orleans: that Religion is the potent weapon, overcometh affection's and charity, and is the surest bond of humane society: that Kingdoms are more bounded, and more divided by Religion, then by the Confines themselves: that he that is moved with Religion, contemneth wife, children, and kindred. This he said of Religion, whether it be true or false. The more potent weapon Religion is, the greater care is to be had that people be instructed in right and true opinions. For where people have been rightly instructed, they have for conscience sake, obeyed their Princes (Rom. 13 5.) and princes have prevailed against many pope's. Sigebert anno 1088. Haec sola novitas, redicam haresis, nec dum in mundo emerserat etc. Usher ib. c. 5. § 3 But when the pope's had settled that strange nou●ty (or rather intolerable heresy) in the hearts of men, that subjects own no subjection to evil princes (to wit, whom the pope's account euill) and though they have sworn fidelity unto them, yet they own none; neither are perjured that fight against the King, but they must be taken for Excommunicants that do not sight against him at the pope's command: and doing so are absolved from all sin of injustice and perjury, and do highly merit at God's hand: when this (I say) is settled in men's hearts, the pope's may unsettle and overthrew what prince and state they list. They neen no other Armies not treasure, while they have men's consciences at their commands: let them but thunder out their threats and Excommunications of such as disobey them, and set their Agents to publish them and stir up the people, and then all subjects will forsake their princes, and serve the pope against them, all Religious persons will be their Trumpeters, Captains and Leaders, all Cloisters, Abbeys, and Colleges will be as good as Castles unto them; the promise of heaven, a sufficient pay, and the threatening of death, not only temporal (which happily might be contemned, or avoided) but eternal (which by disobeying the pope is thought to be unavoidable) is terror enough and all these give courage enough to do their b●st for the pope against all princes of the world. Sir john Hayward of Supremacy, pag. 62. By this means eight Emperors (besides other Kings and princes) have been excommunicate by the pope namely, Frederick the first, Frederick the second, Philip, Conrade, Otho the fourth, Lewis of Bavaria, Henry the fourth and fift, (which was occasion enough for their subjects to revolt, and for other Princes to invade) The succeeding Emperors, partly unwilling, but principally unable to sustain so sad and heavy blows submitted themselves to the papal power, and renounced the right, which by long custom they claimed and held. I omit the troubles of other princes and Nations, and of our own also in former times of our Kings Henry's and john. Our late troubles in the times, of our most gracious Sovereign's Elizabeth and james are fresh in memory, to the detestation of the Authors thereof: and they are published to the world in their own books. See the book entitled, Important Considerations set forth by the Secular Romish Priests in England, anno 1601. with Watson the Priest's Preface or Epistle before it. The secular Priests stick not to relate to the world, what they cannot hide, the treasons, insurrections, invasions, and other troubles (which I have reckoned up before and more also) plotted by the Pope and his Agents, to bring Queen Elizabeth and her Kingdoms, to confusion. Pius Quintus his plot (joining with the King of Spain) to depose her by his Bull and execute it by the Northern Rebellion, 1569. And after, anno 1572. by D. Sanders book, De visibili Monarchia, justifying that course, and showing the world how the pope had sent Morton and Webb, Priests, to stir up the Nobles and Gentlemen, to take Arms against the Queen. Then how Stukley was made a great Lord and marquis of Ireland by the pope, to take Jreland from the English, but miscarried by the way: After how Doctor Sanders came furnished by the Pope to take Ireland by Invasion and Rebellion, and there died miserable and mad: After this, how Gregory 13, renewed the pestilent Bull of Pius 5, cursing and disabling the Queen to reign: and anno 1580. sent into England, Campian, Parsons, and other jesuites, to persuade the subjects to execute it, assuring them of a mighty invasion from Spain to join with them: and how these wicked practices justly enforced straighter laws to be made against such Vipers. For what Prince or state of any force or Mettle could endure their own ruin to be wrought, with their eyes open, and their hands unbound? Then followed his Holiness displaying his banner as a temporal Prince in Ireland, to dispossess the Queen; and afterwards the Duke of Guise's practices to transfer the English Crown to the Q. of Scotland, employing therein Mendoza the Spanish Leaguer Ambassador, Throgmorton and others. And anno 1583. Arden and Somerviles' treason. Then Doctor Parries to murder the Queen. Again, Babington and his fellow's treason, discovered anno, 1586. And sir William Stanley's, 1567. and the great Spanish Armado, 1588. Then the Bull of Sixtus Quintus against the Queen. And new Seminaries errected in Spain by the procurement of Parsons the jesuite, whence issued 13 accomplished Priests, to infuse Treasons into Englishmen brains, anno 1591. to prepare them for a new Invasion. And anno 1592. Heskot was sent by the jesuites to stir the Earl of Derby to Rebellion. After this, Father Holt a jesuite, persuaded Patrick Colen to murder her Majesty. And anno 1593. Doctor Lopus his poisoning plot was discovered: also Holt the jesuite, animated York and Williams to shed her blood: and Walpool the jesuite, set on Edward Squire to poison her saddle Pommel. After this, for the other intended Invasion, the Spanish Fleet put twice to Sea, and both times were sea beaten, torn, and dispersed. Meane-season, Father Parsons in printed books, entitled, The Infanta of Spain to the Crown of England, and used all possible means to make it take place. All these uncatholicke, , inhuman courses the secular Priests confess, condemn and lament, laying all the fault thereof from themselves and other Roman Catholics, upon the jesuites. We do all acknowledge (say they) that by our learning, Ecclesiastical persons by virtue of their Calling, Important consid pag. 37. are only to meddle with Praying Preaching and administering the Sacraments, and such other like spiritual functions: and not to study how to murder Princes, nor to licitate Kingdoms, Jb. pag 38. nor to intrude themselves into matter of state-Priests of what order soever ought not by force of Arms to plant or water the Catholic Faith, but In spiritu lenitatis & mansuetudinis, to propagate and defend it. So it was in the Primitive Church over all the world. The ancient Christians, though they had sufficient forces, did not oppose themselves in arms against their Lords, Ib. pag. 39 See the Epistle Dedicatory of B. Carlton, before his book of jurisdiction. the Emperors, though of another Religion.— The Catholic Faith for her stability and continuance hath no need of any treachery or Rebellion it is more dishonoured with treasons and wicked policies of carnal men, than any way furthered or advanced. Thus the Priests giving us a good hint, what to judge of their Religion that hath evermore been thus planted and propagated. It is not the Catholic Faith and Religion of the Ancients. But erroneous superstition is always more violent than true Religion. They give us an Item also, what our English Roman catholics may look for, if the Spaniard should prevail. Watson in his Epistle to the Important Considerations, saith: The old King of Spain aimed at the Crown of England, with the death of her Majesty, and subversion of the State, and the utter ruin of the whole I'll, and the ancient Inhabitants thereof; and never once shown any care or respect that he had to the restoring of the Catholic Romish Faith amongst the English. Nay his direct course was taken quite contrary, still to extirpate the name of all Catholics (that were English) out from the face of the earth. Therefore he would not aid Stukley to get Ireland for the pope: and also charged the Duke of Medina (his general in 88) rather to spare Protestants then Catholics. And the Book of important Considerations written by themselves pag. 25. saith: It is well known, that the Duke of Medina Sidonia had given it out directly, that if once he might land in England, both Catholics and Heretics that came in his way should be all one to him: his sword could not discern them, so he might make way for his Master, all was one to him. How unlike are the Romish Religions of this age to the Ancients! As the pure Primitive uncorrupt Religion was the greatest blessing both to Prince and subjects: so this corrupt, ambitious and turbulent visor of Religion hath been an untollerable scourge and Plague unto them, means more likely to make Religion stink in the nostrils of men, then to make it sweet and comfortable unto them. All these vn●atholike courses, (I grant) the secular Priests lay upon the jesuites as if all other Papist were clear of them. Which is nor so. 1 For who were in the fault ●n the troubl●s of the Germane Emperors and other Kings before there w●re any jesuites in the worl●? (whose first beginning was little above an hundred years agone, and their plotting Statizations within half that time.) 2 Secondly, all Papists in common (seculars not excepted) hold the Apostolic power, and necessity of obeying it. Quodlibet, 8. art 9 ●ag. 277. 3 The secu●ars often bewray it in their writings, though somewhat covertly, because the times fit not so well to utter their minds plainly. See watson's Quodlib. i● 9 art. 3. pag. 293 & art. 5 pag. 306. & quodl. 8. art. 6. pag 243. 4 They also submit themselves and all their writings yea every word and t●ttle to the censure of the Roman Church: as Quodl 8. art. 8. pag. 267, & 361. & 362. and Important Considerations pag. ●3 in the Postscript. 5 The seculars sometimes plainly confess it Jmp Con. p●g. 15 (having spoken of diverse attempts of the pope and Sp●niard in England and Ireland, to deprive Queen Elizabeth of her Crown) they say plainly, in all these plots none were more forward than many of us that wer● priests; adding that if they the priest's had opposed those designments, the Laity would have been ouer-rul●d by them. 6 Beyond all this, Watson himself, a secular priest, (who had set forth the said Important Considerations, with a flourishing Epistle before as also the Q●odlibets, etc. to clear the secular priests from all treasons & evil practices) became himself a Traitor, and a Ringleader of diverse others in the beginning of King james his reign: for which he and Clarke his fellow were executed, and the Traitor Ballard 1586, was a secular priest. And many secular priests were in the Spanish army against England, anno 88 as saith the Quodlibet 8. art. 7. Doctor Sanders, Morton and Webb, were secular priests. So that howsoever they would excuse themselves, and lay all upon the jesuites: it i● certain that all perfect papists are conscious or guilty in heart, and many of them in action of these courses untollerable to the Church and State. Isaacus Cosaubonus. pist. dedic. ad ●bum Regem. praefix. Excercitat●n Baronium. But concerning the corruptions of the Church, both in doctrine and practices, and our happy Reformation thereof; I present the Reader with the substance of a worthy discourse of learned Casaubon. Who, after he hath showed that neither Truth nor Christians. nor Christ himself (the Way, the Truth, and the Life) ever wanted enemies: and that amongst those enemies, two troops have ever been most infested and most infectious, Nonatores & Veteratores, the Introducers of new Doctrines, and they that under colour of (forged) antiquity, oppugn the true antiquity (as some oppugned the most ancient true worship of the true God, to maintain old Gentilism, the worship of Idols:) he proceedeth to show the old enemy of mankind, seeing himself shut out of the gates, crept in at the back●ore, into the Christian Church, and not being able to hinder the sowing of good seed he secretly sowed Tares amongst it: as in our Europe (the Western part of the world) the worship due to God alone, to be many ways given to creatures; Ceremonies, (under whose burden the Church groaned in Saint Augustine's time,) wonderfully increased, drawing men from the substance of Religion to place all their hope of salvation in observing them: from whence grow the worship of sacred Relics beyond custom and due measure: the trust in the aid of Saints, and the careful invocation of them: the worship and adoration of Images, (which we see at this day increased) which novelty, when it was first brought in, set the East and West at jars and wars, and driven the Emperor out of Italy. Thence came also new idle worships devised by man's brain, and new rites of new superstition: and the better to keep the world from mistrusting or misliking such Innovations the holy Scriptures were (by the uncredible fraud of Satan) withheld not only from the Laity, but from the greatest part of the Clergy. And to top up all these evils was introduced a terrible domination of one man. The seat of Rome, which before thought it sufficient to be accounted the first among the Patriarches seats; now would be the Lady and Mistress of the whole Church. And when her Bishop had lifted up her power in spiritual things to the highest top: not content with that height, set his heart also to bring all temporal power under him: and would never be quiet, till he saw himself lifted above Emperors, Kings and princes, and looked upon them as persons fare beneath him, upon whom he might tread with his feet, as oft as he list, or judged expedient for his affairs. Thus the light of the Gospel was turned into darkness; the golden simplicity of true piety into innumerable superstitions; Christian liberty into horrible servitude; the Rights of the Church, together with the Crowns of Emperors and Kings made subject to that Monarch's Mitre, who challenged to himself alone the power to give and take away Empires and Kingdoms. Which he practised by bringing in all kind of calamities, wars and vexations; wherewith Europe was so often and mightily shaken wh le the truth lay hid, every where neglected, and deeply overwhelmed, drowned and buried. Thus Gasaubon of the former times: III. Then he proceedeth to the times of Reformation. The great blessings of the Reformation of Religion. After a long suffering (saith he) of unspeakable evils: after long sigh and groanings of Emperors, Princes, Clergy, and Laity: after much expectation of many Ages for reformation in the head and members, often promised, never performed: At last there were some found, which broke the patience; and shown themselves leaders to them that sought the truth from their hearts. What they were, or what infirmities they had, it mattereth not to argue. (Malice never speaks well of the best and most innocent.) This is certain by the very event, that they (as men stirred up by God) awaked and roused up the world to look into the corruptions of Christian Religion (which long-time had brought in) and to think of the grievances and complaints, which both Princes and people throughout Europe had showed. And if than the Bishop of Rome had carried the mind to suffer himself to be overcome with the entreaties & prayers public or private of the Emperors, Kings, Princes, and Nations, and of the whole Church: their hopes should not have been so often deluded, who sought and promised to themselves at least some tolerable reformation from him: neither should there have been such a Rent among the Churches of Europe, when every Nation (seeing Rome would do nothing) was constrained to look to itself, and make, if not a perfect reformation yet as good as it could: and as near to the Word of God, and the custom of the Primitive Church, as time and means would afford. For, if it be objected, that the intended Reformation is not perfect, as appeareth by the differences of some Reformed Churches: yet surely first th● Reformers minds were good, who with all their hearts and endeavours sought it: and secondly, the conjunction of all Nations, Wits, Learning, and other means, by a free general Council (which might overrule the Pope, and all other particulars) was only hindered by the Pope and his Faction. But 3 surely, the Reformation was most laudable and necessary, if it had effected no more but this (as one of them wrote in answer to Cardinalll Sadolet) that they freed themselves from the tyranny of the Bishop of Rome; and had constituted in their Countries somewhat better form of the Church, which before was most untollerable both to Princes, and People. Such a Reformation as many former Ages had with grievous sighs and groans, wished and desired, hungered and thirsted after: but all in vain, because the truth in Europe had not yet shined out of darkness; of which our Saviour had said, ye shall know the truth, joh. 8.32 and the truth shall set you free— Therefore 1 Our late Princes, 2 all the orders of the Kingdom, and 3 all the people, have seen and felt the goodness of God, and are, bound to be most thankful to him (except they be of all men the most insensible and ungrateful) for their great blessing following the Reformation of Religion in England. 1 The Princes, that they reign now in their own right; they are not the liege-men, and Vassals of the Pope, that have not their kingdom, Precariò, at the pleasure of another, as Bailiffs of another man's inheritance: that they and their Reverend Clergy are at unity, neither fearing excommunications nor depositions from other: that they divide the care of placing Ministers with their Bishops, challenging to themselves without fear that part which is due to them and concerneth the temporals; and leaving that part of the care to the Bishops, which toucheth spirituals: and all things which prove them to be true Kings. For this blessing, Kings are behoulden to God's truth, which is a friend to them, which establisheth them, and is with all care and diligence by them to be established. Alas for those former times, Inas. See Polydore. hist. Angl. lib. 5. pag. 86. wherein amongst our King's glorious Ancestors, one led away with blind superstition, having zeal, but not according to knowledge, did of his own accord when no necessity compelled him, make his Kingdom tributary to Gregory the third, King john. Bishop of Rome. Another brought into desperation by adverse crosses, yielded up his Kingdom of England and Ireland to Pope Innocent 3. By whom he had been miserably embroiled, and was compelled to be content to be the Pope's steward or Bailie. O horrid blindness of those times! O successors of Peter, egregiously resembling Peter in their doings! O what a grief surprised not only the Barons, Nobles, and all subjects of the Realm, but also the Kings and Princes throughout Europe, as every one was more wise and better than other, to see the fall so heavy, so foul, of so great a Prince! The speeches which some of them uttered at the news of so inhuman example, are committed to writing for perpetual memory, as witnesses also of their most just both indignation and amazement. Yea the speech of that unfortunate King is extant in the writers of those times, most worthy to be deeply settled in all Prince's hearts: After that I was reconciled to God (saith he) and subjected myself and my Kingdoms (alas for sorrow) to the Roman Church nothing came to me prosperous. But all things contrary. Post quam, ut dixi, Deo reconciliatus, me ac mea regna, proh dolour; Romana subjeci ecclesiae, nulla mihi prospera, sed contraria omnia advenerunt. 2 The Clergy and people of England live happily. The Bishops elect need not run beyond the Alps to buy their confirmation of the Pope for great sums of money; nor purchase their Palles with the weight of gold; nor run to Rome every 3 years, or as oft as the Pope list, that is, as oft as he thirsteth after English coin. Now they have no such care, as in times past the Bishops of England had, to take up the best benefices for Italians [In which benefices (as Mathy Paris saith) neither laws nor order were kept, nor relief for the poor, nor hospitality, nor preaching of God's word, nor necessary ornaments or repair of Churches, nor care of souls, nor divine or devout prayers, as was fit, and as was accustomed in the country: but in their buildings the walls and roofs fell down, or were pitifully rend and torn] Now the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury feareth not new Bulls from the Pope to suspend him from collating any benefices until 300 Romen be provided for, by benefices next falling void: as it fell out anno 1239 to Edmund the Archbishop by Bulls sent from Gregory 9 The Pope having promised it to the Roman citizens, who at that time little favoured him. 3 The Ecclesiastical controversies arising in England, by a very ancient Canon (whereof S. Cyprian also maketh mention) are determined in England: The collectors of Peter pence, and other contributions, the Roman visitors, proctor's, and farmers, the Merchants of Indulgences or pardons to men according to their wealth, the dispensers of vows, and Institors, of legitimation to make men capable of orders; the Caursine Usurers, that lived at Rome, but drew thither all the wealth of England, (lending to English Nobles & others upon mortgage of their lands or other extreme usuries, money to satisfy the Pope and his Harpies): The bringers of Bulls for new extortions. The witty Mice-catchers (Muscipulatores as the Story calls them) such as Petrus Rubeus and many others, cunning Artificers to drain money from men for the Pope: and six hundred such like greedy and grievous Arts; by the unutterable benefit of the truth of Religion, their names are now scarce heard of, and should be utterly unknown, were it not for the monuments and histories of former ages, Neither doth now any Legate à latere, any messenger from the Pope's side, exercise any Ravine for money in England, as many did heretofore, and some with execrable hunger of gold, as we read of one of them. Otto, sent by Gregory 9, who after three years raking together of money, by most detestable Arts, at last departing hence, left not so much money in the whole Kingdom, as he either carried with him, or sent to Rome before him. And yet these evils are small in comparison of others which Englishmen have felt continually for many Ages from the Court of Rome, as the Historians of those times, with full consent record. Verè enim hortus deliciarum Papis fuit tum Anglia, & puteus inexhaustus; As we read it was truly and trimly said by Pope Jnnocent 4. England was a Garden of deliciousness to the Popes, and a fountain inexhaust or undrainable. I speak not now of the true blessings of the soul, for which all men may thank the Reformation of Religion, which pious Princes make more account of, then of all the Kingdoms of the earth. The sincere worship of God alone, without fellows or copartners; The veneration of the B. Virgin, and holy Saints, without superstition: The peace of conscience with God, by faith in the merits and death of Christ: not that the faithful should cease from good works: (fie! away with such madness,) but that when a man hath doneall he can do, yet to acknowledge himself an unprofitable servant, and never place confidence in his own merits: to gather exceeding great comfort in the daily and continual reading and meditating of the Scriptures; not interpreting them after his own sense, but in those things which he finds in them perspicuous and plain, (for in such sort they afford us, if we believe the Fathers, all things necessary to salvation) and such as are agreeable to the expositions of the first Doctors of the Church, he may sortisie his mind against false opinions, which at this day are obtruded upon the unwary for ancient articles of faith: The receiving of the holy Communion, according to the institution and commandment of our Lord, and the continual practice of the Church for more than a thousand years, under both kinde●: Minds confirmed against those thunders of Excommunication, so terrible in former times; which the Popes cast abroad oftentimes against innocent Princes, and rather for humane causes then Divine, as every man knoweth. As when Innocent 3 kept all the people of this Land, under a curse most deadly and damnable (as the Popes would have men believe, and then it was so believed) whole six years, three months, and fourteen days. In which time all that died in the Land, were deprived of burial, and judged to be damned creatures, all new borne remained unbaptized, prayers and teaching ceased in all Churches and men lived like Infidels. In so large a land, so plentiful of people, to continue this curse but for one day upon so many thousands of Innocents', had been doubtless a most wicked and damnable thing. But from all these evils, and many other, the blessed Reformation of that formerly corrupted Religion, hath redeemed us. Such things writes the learned and judicious Casaubon. And as the Reformation delivered us from many evils, so it hath filled us with many blessings, which we daily feel in full measure, but are not able in any sufficient measure to express. Take a short view of our blessings enjoyed under our late Princes. Cambden annal Elizabethae, initio, & B. Carltons' Thankful Remembrance, initio. Queen Elizabeth entering her reign, anno 1558, found at first many potent enemies, few and impotent friends. Philip King of Spain, (who sued to marry her by a dispensation from the Pope, having buried Mary her sister, his former wife) now being refused by her, turned his love into hatred. Henry 2, King of France, with whom she sought peace and amity, broke out into open hostility. His son Francis having married Mary the Queen of Scotland, professed his Wife to be the heir of England, assumed the Arms and Title thereof, and sought to displace Elizabeth, as one also accounted an Heretic. So were the great neighbour-States of Spain, France and Scotland, her professed enemies. Her Friends that would have h●●ped her, were weak, and could not, but stood in need of help from her. The Scots sore troubled with the French Armies procured by the Guisians: The Low-Countries beaten down by the Duke of Alva, Agent for the King of Spain: The Protestants of Denmark and France, were fain to crave aid from Her, as also other friends did. The State at home was much troubled; the treasure exhausted, and oppressed with great debt, contracted by King Henry's boundless expenses, King Edward's minority, and Queen Mary's foreign marriage and other troubles: the land without strength, forces, soldiers, artillery, powder, and treasure: Calis lately lost, and nothing seemed lef● but a weak and poor State, destitute of means and friends. So that her great near Neighbours round about her, made no other account of her, but as one left to be a prey to the strongest that would invade her. Yet see the mighty hand and blessing of God upon her, not only to deliver her out of all these difficulties; but further to enable her to support her friends, and to match and master her enemies. When she provided Armour at Antwerp, and King Philip caused it to be stayed; yet she partly procured Armour and Weapons out of Germany, but principally God opened new Brass Mines in England, (which had been long before neglected) sufficient for us, and to vent into other Countries: and yielded us then first the stone called Lapis calaminaris, needful for working in Brass. By means whereof, She caused store of Guns to be cast of Brass and Iron at home: and Gunpowder also then first to be made in England, which before was bought from other Countries. Camden ibid. pag 27. And further, By the happy abolishing of the Pope's Religion, as England became the most free of all other Countries in the world, the Sceptre being (as it were) manumitted from the former servitude of the Bishop of Rome, so it became also more rich than in former Ages: a great mass of money being kept at home, which formerly was exhausted, and yearly and daily carried to Rome, for first fruits, Indulgences, appeals, dispensations, Palles, & such other things. Strengthened therefore by all these blessings, She fortified Berwick against Scotland; and provided a great Navy to safeguard the Seacoasts. And whereas former Kings hired ships from foreign places, (Hamburg, Lubeck, Dantiske, Genua, Venice, etc.) Now She built great store of ships of War Herself; and all Coast-townes with incredible alacrity, wondering at her wisdom and care of them, did the like. So that in short time England was able to employ twenty thousand men in Sea-fight at once. And her enemies began to fear her, more than she did them. And such was her power and policy, See Speeds Chronicle in Elizabeth § 347. & seq. and Gods extraordinary blessings upon them, that the great affairs of Europe mainly depended upon Her directions. She sitting at the helm of the ship, (as Fronto spoke of Antonius the Emperor) arbitrated and guided their estates both in peace and war. Spain seeking to overflow all, was beaten back, and scarcely able to maintain her own Barks: In France, the house of Valois underpropped by Her counsel; that of Bourbons advanced by her countenance, forces and treasure; Scotland relieved by her love, Netherlands by her power, Portugal's King by Her bounty; Poland by her commiseration; likewise Germany, Denmark, Sweveland, often took up and laid down Arms at her beck and dispose. The great Emperor of the Turks, in honour of so great a Mediatresse, granted peace unto the Polonians, outworn with wars. Her Kingdom was a receptacle, and her Court a Sanctuary for the banished Protestants, as was the Palace of Constantius (the Husband of our Helena) for the persecuted Christians, when he sat Emperor of the West, in this Island of Britain. Whereby, as in her life-time, sh● attained to be styled by foreign Churches; so at Her death was she by them generally lamented, as the Nursing Mother of the French, Beza in ep. prafiu. Comment. in job. Dutch, Italian, Exiles for Christ's Name, and the unconquered Defendresse of the whole Christian Religion. Thus our Land became as God's Paradise, his Eden, his blessed Garden, replenished with all necessaries both for sufficiency and delight. Above all, the Tree of Knowledge, and the Tree of Life, are planted plentifully in it; and all men permitted, persuaded, commanded to seed on them, the Knowledge of God, and the Bread of Life: and all other blessings consequent and appendent unto them. Whereof our feeling and experience outstrippeth all possible words and discourses. I will therefore shut up all with the Royal testimony of our late most Learned and judicious King james. King james to the Reader of his ●asilicon Doron. towards the end. First, of Queen Elizabeth he writeth thus: She hath so long, with so great wisdom and felicity governed her Kingdoms, as I must in true sincerity confess, the like hath not been read or heard of, either in our time, or since the days of the Roman Emperor Augustus. And he caused this Epitaph to be set upon her Tomb. Speeds Chron. quo supra. Sacred unto memory. Religion to its Primitive sincerity, restored: Peace throughly settled: France near ruin by intestine mischiefs, relieved: netherlands supported: Spain's Armado vanquished: Ireland with Spaniards expulsion, and Traitor's coercion, quieted: both Universities revenues by a Law of provision excellently augmented, finally all England enriched; and 45 years most prudently governed; Elizabeth, a Queen, a Conqueress, a Triumpher, the most devoted to Piety, the most Happy, after 70 years of Her life, quietly by death departing, hath left here (in this most famous Collegiate Church, which by her was established, and refounded) these Remains of her mortality, until at Christ's call, they shall again rise Immortal. She died 24 March, 160●. of her Reign 45, of her Age 70. Secondly of himself, his own times, and Kingdoms, he writeth thus: One thing is necessary, King james in his answer to the Oration of Cardinal Perene. pag. 243. namely the fear and knowledge of my God: unto whose Majesty alone I have devoted my sceptre, my sword, my pen, my whole industry, my whole self, with all that is mine, in whole and in part. I do it, I do it in all humble acknowledgement of his unspeakable mercy and savour, who hath vouchsafed to deliver me from the erroneous way of this age, to deliver my Kingdom from the Pope's tyrannical yoke, under which it hath Fen in times past most grievously oppressed. My Kingdom, where God is now purely served, and called upon in a tongue which all the vulgar understand. My Kingdom, where the People may now read the Scriptures, without any special privilege from the Apostolic sea, and with no less liberty than the people of Ephesus, of Rome, and of Corinth did read the holy Epistles written to their Churches by Saint Paul. My Kingdom, where the people now pay no longer any tribute by the poll for Papal indulgences, as they did about an hundred years past; and are no longer compelled to the Mart, for pardons beyond the Seas and mountains: but have them now freely offered from God by the Doctrine of the Gospel preached at home, within their own several parishes and jurisdictions. And in another place he saith thus: Ibid. pag. 274. Greater blessings of God, greater outward peace and plenty, greater inward peace, with spiritual and celestial pleasures were never heaped upon my Great Britain, then have been since my Great Britain became great in the greatest & chiefest respect of all; to wit, since my Great Britain hath shaken of the Pope's yoke; since she hath refused to receive and to entertain the Pope's Legates, employed to collect Saint Peter's tribute, or Peter pence; since the Kings of England, my Great Britain, have not been the Pope's Vassals, to do him Homage for their Crown, and have no more felt the lashings, the scourge, of base, and beggarly Monks. Of Holland, Zealand, & Friesland, what need I speak? Yet a word and no more. Were they not a kind of naked and bare people, of small value, before God lighted the torch of the Gospel, and advanced it in those Nations? were they not an ill-fed and scragged people, in comparison of the inestimable wealth and prosperity (both in all military actions, and mechanical trades, in traffic as Merchants, in marting as men of war, in long navigation for discovery) to which they are now raised and mounted by the merciful ble●●ing of God, since the darkness of Popery hath been scattered, and the bright Sunshine of the Gospel hath shined in those Countries? Behold the Venetian Republik: hath she now less beauty, less glory, less peace and prosperity, since she hath lately fell to bicker and contend with the Pope? since she hath wrung out of the Pope's hand the one of his two swords? since she hath plumed and shaken his temporal dominion? Upon these considerations, I. Of the excellency of the first primitive Christian Religion: II. Of the intolerable evils which the corruptions of Rome brought into the world, with the groans and cries of men for Reformation: and III. of the great blessings which the Reformation hath brought upon the countries which received it; Me thinks there should need no further persuasion to men of any reasonable understanding and judgement, to forsake the uncatholike corruptions of the Romish Church, and embrace this so blessed a Reformation, with all due thankfulness to God, for the true doctrine of Salvation, and peace of Conscience, with the desired peace of their estates, love of Prince and Country, wealth, joy, and happiness, and all both earthly and heavenly blessings, that man's heart in this world can desire. O fortunates nimium, bona si sua norint Angligenas! O happy English, if they knew their happiness. But if they will not open their eyes to see, nor their hearts thankfully to embrace the happiness so graciously offered unto them: if they will still blind their eyes, harden their obstinate hearts, and strive against all reason and Religion to return back into the Egyptian darkness and bondage: alas, what can I do? but with grief of heart say with the Prophet jeremy, jeremy 2.12, 13. Be astonished, O ye heavens at this: My people have committed two evils, they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed themselves out Cesternes, broken Cisterns that can hold no water! Or with the Poet Horace, Eia, Nolint, at qui licet esse beatis. They may, Horace Serm. lib. 1. Satyra. 1. but will not be happy. For, be a man never so happy, Non est beatus, esse se qui non putat He is not happy that thinks himself not so. And then (as Horace adds) Miseros iubeo esse libenter. I can but bid them wilfully be wretched. But in hope of better success, I have undertaken this great labour; which I beseech our gracious God to bless, to the good of every Reader; whose good acceptance of my love and pains, I crave, with their prayers to God for me. Glory be to God on high, on earth Peace, and good will amongst men. Luke 2.14. FINIS.