A Stay against Straying.  
OR, An Ans●●● to a Treatise, entitled: The Lawfulness of hearing the Ministers of the Church of England.  
By JOHN ROBINSON.  
Wherein, Is proved the contrary, viz. The unlawfulness of hearing the Ministers of all false Churches. By JOHN CAN.  ESA. 57 14. And he shall say 〈◊〉 ye up 〈…〉 prepare the way, take up the 〈…〉 way of my people.  coat of arms or blazon 
Printed in the Year 1639.   

ERRATA.  
P. 2, l. 1. read they. l. 39 the wanting. P. 5, l. 28, r. Calves. P. 11, l. 38, r. Ministry. P. 52, l. 6, r. doer. P. 57, l. 25, r. Claidon. P. 59, l. 11, r. resorted. P. 83, l. 16, r. folly. P. 86, l. 2, r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 P. 88, l. 30, r. dicit. P. 120, l. 2, r. streathned.  
For other faults, if thou findest any, I desire that thy love may be such as to amend them thyself.   

To all such as desire to receive and follow the truth in Love, and with holiness; The feeling assurance of life and peace, be wished in jesus Christ.  
Men Fathers and Brethren:  
WHAT the Lord saith, touching the revealing of the Man of sin, 
2 Thes. 2, 8.  and the consuming of him by the brightness of Christ's coming: We may see (blessed be God for it) now accomplished in a great measure. For whereas in times past, many of the Professors, have used both their tongues and pens, to plead for their Parish-Churches, Ministry and Worship; They now (being of sounder minds, and better informed) let those things fall: Insomuch, as there are few (if any) except Formalists and Familists (virtutem qui verba putant, ut lucum ligna, as Horace speaketh) and men of corrupt minds, who suppose that gain is godliness; That will appear in the defence thereof. So that in likelihood, for the time to come, there willbe little use, for any man, to write any more, against that Church-state, Minister ie, Worship & Government, seeing the falseness thereof, is now seen and acknowledged, of the honester and better sort every where.  
Notwithstanding as Pharaoh used sundry means, to stay Israel still in Egypt, after he saw them desirous to departed▪ So doth Satan labour what he can, to hold God's people in spiritual thraldom, after he perceives they are willing to obey Gods call, and come out of it.  
And that he may bring to pass what he desireth, he useth most effectual delusions & deep deceits: Well knowing that the snares which he laid in our forefathers blind and ignorant days, are now out of date, and will not serve the turn, to beguile many people withal; But he must more transform himself into an Angel of Light; I say, use more artificial and crafty devises, then formerly he hath done.  
It is said of Praxiteles 
* Clemen: Alex ●in protrept.  the Painter, that he made the silly people worship the Image of his strumpet, under the title and pretence of Venus. Now sure I am, in those days, there are some, who under the name of God's worship, do cause many people to worship Satan and Antichrist; And that men may the easier and sooner be persuaded to it; they set forth their lies and vanities in as plausible & fair away as can be.  
What man would seem to deal so plainly as a jugter: He will strike up his sleeves and make bare his arms, and open his hands and fingers, and lay all things before thee, and bid thee behold, and thou wouldst think him to be a man of a fair carriage, and not imagine thou couldst possibly be deceived; And yet indeed, his whole skill and seeking, is nothing else but to deceive, and the more simply and plainly he would seem to deal, the sooner and easier he doth beguile thee. For thou shalt think thou seest all, and seest nothing; Feelest it senceablie with thy fingers, holdest it fast, canst not lose it, and yet shall open thy hand and find nothing.  
The passages of some men, in points of Religion, are carried much after such a sort: For one would think, to hear the smoothness of their tale, and what integrity and plainness they do profess; That it is all Gospel they speak, and that their cause, is clear, and nothing is to be said to the contrary: Notwithstanding when another comes forth, and replies against them, rips up their tale, weighs their reasons, discloseth the error and weakness of their pleading. Men wonder at their own simplicity and ignorance, and that ever they should be so fond as to believe them. But seeing I am now to deal only in the point of hearing of false Ministers: I will not therefore step out of the beaten way to take in any by-discourse; Only I think good to certify, that I marvel, that such men who walk not as we do in Churchway, but think us to censorious and over just: Why they do not publicly answer our grounds and arguments published to the world, and so prove their new Principles in as fair and open a way; that either we may come to them, finding them to walk more agreeable to the Scriptures, or show our reasons to the contrary.  
For the matter here in controversy: That the Reader may profit the more by it, there are 5 things, which I desire him to do. 1. When thou settest thyself to read, set thyself as in God's presence, look on with a single and impartial eye; weigh the arguments well on both sides, not by shows and shifts, but by the just Balance of the incorruptible and unchangeable Word of God; In judging, judge I beseech thee righteous judgement; and let the truth be dear to thy soul; and do not side with any side, because thy mind gives thee, it leadeth most to ease, credit, profit pleasure, or such worldly respects, but to that which most tendeth to the glory of God's great name, the purity of religion, and to the most comfort and peace of thy own conscience.  
2. I would have thee to live by thy own faith, and not build upon another's fancy, it is a great fault in some, in that they see nothing, but by other men's eyes. What this man, or such a man holdeth, that is their belief; And besides this, they can give no more reason for what they hold, than the Parrot of her speaking. I need not go fare for proof; The point in controversy clears it sufficiently. For as one 
‡ Galen: Clas. 2. lib. de cuiusq: animi peccat▪ notitia at que medela.  well saith: That which a credible person telleth, is easily thought credible by such as are well persuaded of him. What hath drawn many unto this practice of Hearing unlawful Ministers? But taking the thing upon trust, without due trial and examination. Sure I am, had men measured it by the Golden Read of the Scriptures, they would soon have perceived, that it was never set apart by God's appointment, for the spiritual building.  
3. Be not wise in thy own eyes. But rather deny thyself in thy own judgement, will, affection, reason, etc. And be contented to be guided by the alone Word of God. What is the reason that some men do seek after the truth, as a coward doth his enemy, loath to find him? But because loving their own conceit (as Apes their young ones) beyond measure, they are not willing to hear of any thing that is said against it.  
We see in nature, he that will hear well, must stop his breath; It is so in things spiritual: if a man will not keep in his breath, I mean set aside conceitedness & self-love, & be willing to embrace the truth, though it be contrary to that which he formerly held he shall not profit by any thing, he heareth or readeth, but like Pharoahs● kine remain lean & ill-favoured still.  
Things in the earth will grow as they find room; A Light in the damps of mines, goeth out: Thus stands the case with men, when any good help is pur into their hands: If their hearts then, be free of self-love, spiritual pride, personal prejudice, base desire of vain glory and humane applause, etc. They will profit by it; Contrariwise if their hearts, like a deep hole, be full of those filthy Fogs & Mists, the truth then (how clearly soever it shine) will damp & quench in them, as a light in the mines of the earth.  
4. 
civil dig. 4. de legib. Senatusque consult:  Whereas the Civil Law saith, it is uncivil for any man not having weighed the whole Law, to give advice or judgement some one parcel of it, alone proposed. I do therefore entreat the Reader, to forbear his Censure, till he have read the whole book over. And if it be so, that he thinks, in some point I have erred (as who liveth & erreth not) I would not have him, for such a particular failing to condemn the whole. But let that bear its own burden, and let the rest be received, as (after due trial) the same shallbe found agreeable to the Word of God.  
I speak not this, as being privy to any known crime this way; But because I am privy to many known wants & great weaknesses in myself. Besides, it is the manner of some, if they can spy some thing not well handled in another man's writing, to take such advantage, as hereby they seek to bring the whole under reproof and condemnation. Of this shallbe all their talk, at this they will gird and jest; not being able in the mean time to take away the force of any one of the main arguments. Neither indeed dare to attempt it, but like the snail keep in their horns.  
5. I think good to speak here a little concerning the manner of this answer. And that no man may be offended as it; I do profess in the Word of truth, that it hath much greeved me all along the discourse, to speak so much of the Treatiser, whose learning I do much reverence; But the cause being the Lords, and I seeing how much it lay upon me, to take away the Masks and visards, whereby many have been deceived, I have done my best to show the absurdities, contradictions, unskilfulness & dangerousness of that Treatise. And for this not sparing but speaking home, I have had some reasons for it, as partly here follow.  
1. Because the Book contains a pernicious & most hurtful error; and by how much it is carried forth, under a colourable show of a pious and godly practice, by so much the more hath it caused many grievous & long lasting miseries. I know there are many viler errors daily maintained; But if we respect men's walking in the Holy Order of the Gospel, this is a main stumbling block & bar in the way to it: There are some humours, which some where placed in the body, are quiet and do little hurt, but in other places, specially in the passage, they do much mischief. This error, is as a corrupt humour, fallen into the passage of the body, the Church; and therefore it must needs be the more perilous.  
2. I have spoken the more plainly against it, because they say, there are many in England and in other Countries, who hold it unlawful to be present at their divine service, and to receive the Sacraments in the Parish-Churches; and yet think it lawful to hear the Ministers of that Church. Now, if such men have (as had David) tender hearts, and hearts that will smite them for a little; They will surely come off from this too. Seeing I have here proved, that the ground they build on, is very sand, and their pleading for it, wants both Religion & reason.  
3. Such a general fame is gone forth of the book, as to be so learnedly & absolutely done, that it gives all men satisfaction (some few rigid spirits only excepted) & that no man would ever be able to make any sound reply to it. And for myself, I have been by name challenged (as it were) to answer, with much base insulation, as if I d urst rather eat my pen, than put my pen to write against it. And this both before my thoughts were settled on thing, and since too. Now, whether the work be according to the praise of it, let all indifferent men judge.  
4. Seeing it is given out (but me thinks it should not be true) that there are some learned men, which plead for the Hearing of false Ministers; and upon the Treat. grounds; I have therefore discovered the sleightness of it (to say no worse) the more: That such (if there be any such) may see their error; If not, reply if they please & when they wil  
But for the person, or persons that shall reply; These 3 things I desire may be considered: 1. That they change not the state of the question; which is not, whether it be lawful to hear the Ministers of the church of England, or of Rome, or of any Church; But taking it granted, a Church to be false, & the Ministry Antichristian; whether Hearing in such a case be lawful; For the question now stands thus, & no otherwise.  
2. I expect an answer, in a more honest & fairer way, than I had the last time namely, by a sort of gnats, 
* It hath beme objected as I hear, that I should answer dead men▪ now how so ever it is well known that my former book was both finished and at the Press, before Dr. Ames death: yet say I had written after his death: do not all men know, that in points of differences, we have respect to the matter itself, & no to any person on either side holding the same▪  whom I felt but never saw: the Law of God and Light of Nature teacheth.  Quod tibi vis fieri, hoc facias & alteri. 
Indeed it is a very unbeseeming thing, that men who do profess Religion & learning, should disgrace other men's work, behind their backs, shunning in the mean time the open light, whereby their deeds might be made manifest. As for such Replyers, whose arguments are Trencher-squibs, and reach only as far as to the end of the table 
‡ Not so far as to pen, Ink & paper, to answer in a fair & honest way. ; well they may satisfy men of the same humours; But with men fearing God they shall find no acceptance.  
3. I expect plain dealing; Truth is like the glassy sea before the throne, which is bright, clear, not a clouded body or covered with the veils of men's fond fantisies & dreams. Let such Childish toys be kept for Children. I require the voice of the Shepherd, read it me out of the Prophets show it me out of the Psalms, read it out of the Law or Gospel. For without this men's judgements have no credit. 
* Ego vocem pastoris requiro, lege haec mihi de Prophetis, lege de psalmo; recita de lege; recita de Evangelio; recita de Apostolo. August. de Pastorib. cap. 14.   
Before I end my speech, I think good to mention you my Brethren, with whom I am in special communion, & over whom the Holy Ghost hath made me overseer. This answer will serve to clear us, from such untrue reports, as some maliciously have raised up, as if we were declined from our ancient profession, Now, what we hold concerning the fallacies & fantasies newly broached, I desire all the Churches of God, here to take knowledge off, for our clearing & justification.  
I thought when I first began with this Treatise, in ending of it, to have ended with public controversies; and so have followed a more quiet kind of study; But seeing, what the truth suffers in regard of adversaries to it on both sides, the love of God constraineth me not to be silent, but according to that measure which the Lord hath dealt unto me, & as my small abilities are, to contend for the faith, against dexteriores & sinesteriores, adversaries on both hands, & to deliver it from the evil report which both have sought to bring upon it.  
And as I have made way now for God's people, to enter into the sweet order of the Gospel & covenant o● the Lord; So I purpose very speedily to publish something for their stay and preservation therein.  
You know (my Brethren) for the divisions of Reuben are great thoughts of heart. Lord, how are we spoken of in Gath & Askalon, for the rents & Schisms amongst us. In truth, I do not know, for what our profession, is beholding unto, in respect of some men, but only to be despised & reproached for their idle & giddy courses 
* Of certain turbulent spirits it is said: Illis quieta movere magna merces videbatur. Sallust. They thought the very disturbance of things quietly established an hire sufficiently to set them on work.  But that the truth of God may no longer suffer, but the sin & shame lie where it ought; I will by the good hand of God assisting me, clear our Religion, as that it leads not to Schisms & Church-breaking; but such things are roots of bitterness & cursed taires, planted & sowed by the Envious man, in the unsanctified hearts of ungodly people; Besides, I purpose to show from the Word of God, why men ought to keep themselves with true Churches. Howbeit, in their opinions very corrupt, & how. Again, how fare particular men have liberty to deal with a Church; & when they are to rest, & how, a why; Moreover, how fare a Church-Covenant binds every member of the body to that body; & wherefore there must not be divisions, neither from, nor in the body. Again, in case there be a division in Church, I will show by what signs & tokens, the Church may be known from the Schismatics. In a word, I will show how fare the Office of the Eldership extendeth in matter of Government; and how fare obedience is due unto them of the people. These things & many more of the like nature, you shall shortly see them handled; For I purpose to publish a large Treatise of Ecclesiastical Polity, even the whole external regiment of the Church of God. And thus commending you to God, I take my leave; and will during life always rest  
Amsterdam, Month 1. day 28. 1639. Yours in what he can, to do you service I. C.   

A STAY AGAINST STRAYING, OR A Reply to a Treatise published in the defence of hearing Antichristian Ministers.  


SECTION I.  
An answer to the nameless Epistoler.  
HOwsoever the publisher of the Treatise hath thought it fit to conceal his name: 
* it is question, whethe● he were not a shamed, to put his name to it. a. pro: 27. 14.  yet he hath prefixed to it, a large preface, wherein with a Loud voice a he blesseth the author, his friend, and the work itself, and seeks by many unchristian speeches, to disgrace some men what he can, inregard they Zealously opposed his new minion Idol.  
Three reasons he gives, why (after 9 year's concealment,) he hath now Published the book▪ first the large abilities of the author a 'bove many others. etc.  
Answ: 1. this ground is sandy, and he speaks (
* Ar●●●  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) besides the matter: For howsoever we confess, that the Author, was a godly & learned man: notwith standing it follows not, that whatsoever he said, it was therefore true, & necessarily to be published. Without offence that fitly may be applied to him, which a learned writer, writes of Chrisostome, 
a Cal●ehil Treatise of the Cross pag. 26.  he was not without his fault. his golden mouth wherein he passed others, had otherwhile leaden words, which yielded to error & abuse of the time.  
2. Had the Pistler respected (as he should) the author's large abilities, he would not have made that book so common as he hath done, to the man's great dishonour. When one Pammachius 
b jeroms' 〈◊〉 Epist: ad pamm:  a Learned Man, understood that Hierome, had written some things amiss, against jovinian, he sought to suppress all the Copies, & to have them concealed, till the faults therein were corrected. If the Publisher 
c Let such as had a hand this way think of Christ's worde● in mat. 18. 7. wo● to them by whom offences come.  or others, had so done with that first copy which they found in his study, they had done well, & manifested good affection to the author: but in that they caused so vile a thing to be spread abroad, they did ill, & were his enemies. And here I think of that sentence in Eccles: 10. 1. dead flies cause the ointment of the Apothecary to send forth a stinking savour: so doth a little folly, him that is in reputation for wisdom and honour. I acknowledge to God's glory, and the Treatisers due Praise, that there are in print of his, sundry fruitful treatises 
d Specially his justification of separation. a book so sufficiently penned as no Adversary hitherto durst reply. : but certanelie this published since his death, is like the wild gourd in the Pottage, a chief cause that the former are the less accepted with the godly. It is true therefore as Ferus 
e ferus Annot. in Ecclesic; 10. v. 1. fol. 95. 2● Chro: 19 12. 1. King: ●. 46.  saith one fault deprives men of many favours. jehosaphats' near affinity with Ahabs' house, marvelouslie eclipsed his other virtues: so the Treat: his pleading for Antichristian Priests, & the hearing of them, lies as a great blot upon him. But what shall I say, there is no man that liveth & sinneth not. Wise men do not things sometimes wisely. 
f Nemo morta●●●● omnibus 〈◊〉 sapit▪ plin.   
3. It is a weak ground to persuade men to embrace any doctrine from the large abilities of some persons holding it: for we are charged, not to believe what an Angel from heavens 
g Gal. 1. 8.  should teach us, if he speak not according to the Oracles of God. The imitators of Alexander thought it not enough, to follow him in his virtues, but in his stooping & other gestures. But christians have learned to do better: to wit, 
In a certain sermon which he made to▪ young men.  to leave all men (be he king, minister, master &c) where they leave the truth. Basil for this purpose useth a fine similitude; we must (saith he) be partakers of other men's sayings, after the manner of bees: they fly not to all flowers, nor where they sit, do the crop them quite away, but take only so much, as sufficeth to their honey making: so we, (if we willbe wise) must take from others, so much as is sound, & agreeable to truth, & for the rest not meddle with it.  
His second reason is, the worth of the work. For it were (saith he) great I ittie 
* It seems the 9 years before he printed it he wanted pity.  that such a work as this should be concealed: And therefore he tells us in the title page, he hath published it for the common good. And in the conclusion of the preface, desires the Lord, to make the whole work (for the general good now set forth) profittable to those that love the truth.  
Answ: 1. The things that are not fair, seem fair to him that is in love. 
* Theocrit▪ i● Bucoliast.  So Daphius, in the poet saith to Polephemus. It is just so with superstitious men, they think passing well of their vain in ventions, howbeit they have no reason for it.  
And surely, were it not, but that this man is Fallen excessively in love with the treatise, 
* Quid non cogit amer. martial, l. 4. Encolp  he would not so applaud it, much less have been at the charge of the printing. But what may be reason, that he & others, are so in love with it? if they would answer here [bona fide,] my mind gives me, they would say as Samson did when he desired to take a wife of the uncircumcised Philistines: she pleaseth me well 
a Iudg: 14. 3.  So these covet to be unequally yoked with this harlot-hearing: because it pleaseth them well. & why so? oh it leads them unto an easy & plausible walking: they have a trick now to deceive the Prelates, & to shun Persecution for the cross of Christ.  
2. Touching a common good, this is the common pretence of all deceivers, 
b Pro; 1, 11. 12 1. Pet. 2. 19 Eze. 12. 22.  and the same as old almost as the world: for the Devil used it, 
c Gen. 3, 2. 30.  to beguile the woman in Paradise saying God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof ye shallbe as Gods. He reasoneth here (as Pareus 
d Comment: in Gen: c. 3. v: 5. p. 115. Tom: 1.  observeth on the place) to this effect that which willbe for your good, 
e Duaran: distinct: 8. Field of the Church. l. 3. p. 157. 158. Sanders de visib: m●n: lib: 5.  ought not to be omitted: But the eating of the forbidden fruit willbe so: (for ye shallbe as Gods:) Therefore, etc.  
And the children of this wicked one, have since in this followed their father's steps: for what lies & beastly vanities are there extant, but the authors in publishing of them, have professed an aiming at Public profit? Was not the Hierarchy that monstrous monster, cunningly erected at first (& to this day justified) under colour of common good: 
e 22. Gui●. hard l. 4. c. 6. sun. Lomb. l. 4. Rhem in 1. Cor. 14. Soct. l.  namely to Preserve the unity & peace of the Church: for the avoiding of schisines and factions and that there may be no Tyranny or oppression among brethren. The like may be said of the mass, merits, purgatory, 
d 2●. Qu●st. 1. art 1. Polidor l. 6. c. 12. invent:  pilgrimages, bowing at Altars, praying to Angels, worshipping of Images, Crosses, Pardons, Holy oil, Fasts, Feasts, absolution by priests, prayer in an unknown tongue: & the rest of the filthy trash & dung in Babylon: 
Allexan ab. Allexxan: l 3.  do not the covetous merchants of that see, tell their chapmen all is for common good: [see 
* Sotus l. 4 distinct 43. art 3. Bellarm. de purgat. l. 2. c. 17. Thomas Aquin: ● dist:  their Books] Not but their bells in the tower, and the cross on the steeple, are set up under a pretence of common good: the one being to drive away evil spirits▪ & the other to keep the Church from burning, To vel us therefore of common good, we tell him, Plus aloens. quam mellis habet. 
* juvenal: Sat: 6. . This is but a cunning bait, which impostors formerly have used, to draw simple people into a snare. But to keep ourselves from it, we need go no further, then to a saying of an Ethnic: That only are we to esteem good & profittable, which we see to be right and lawful 
* Nihil utile, quod non idem iustum et honestum. Cic: De office li●: 3. .  
But seeing the thing he pleads for, is most unrighteous, (for it tends to the dishonour of God's great name, the discredit of the gospel, the keeping back of many from receiving the love of the truth 
a Witne sie many in England, which hold the parish Churcher false, and yet go thither to hear, being misled by this Treat: ) great pity it was, so corrupt a thing ever saw the light, but rather had perished in the birth, or at least, upon the first sight of it, the finders had burned it, as the books mentioned in Act: 19 19 For so a great deal of common hurt had beme prevented in the Churches of God, and in the world too, Woe unto them that call evil good. 
b Esa. 5. 20. .  
His third reason is, to preserve the Church's privileidge: defend Christ's cause against the enemies of God, which aim at the utter ruinating of the Church, & labour to rend it in pieces, etc.  
Answ, The Romans [as it is reported 
c Varre. ) kept in Capitolio certain dogs & Geese, which by their barking, & gagling should give warning in the night, of thiefs that entered in but if they cried out in the day time, when there was no suspicion, their legs were to be broken of, because they cried when there was no cause. If the Publishers contending here, be [
d Doctrinsa vana est, rati● ut accesserit. Tull:  as he says himself] to preserve the church's privileidge. & the thing certain which he chargeth his brethren with: to weet, that they were the troblers of Israel. let him then (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 
* Suidas: ) we are the laurel. But if he be erroneous in the one, & a false accuser in the other, I hope among the godly wise, he shall have his demerit accordinly. To the matter.  
First that hearing of false ministers is a privileidge of God's Church, I deny it, this is but the froth of his own lips, neither sole nor savoury: as well he may say, that whoredom is a woman's privilege: theift a servants: rebellion a subjects: disobedience children's: reason and ground there is alike. And to prove this, thus I reason.  
What soever God hath bestowed upon his Church as her privilege, the same is to be found in his word: But it is not mentioned there, that true believers (as their privilege) ought to hear Antichristian Teachers: Ergo: etc.  
The proposition is unquestionablie certain by these scriptures. Psa: 19 7. 2. Timot 3. 15. 16. Esa. 8 20. john. 15. 17. Act. 20. 27.  
Besides this is the unanimous consent of learned writers. The scriptures (saith Athanatius 
e Cont, Gent. In john. hom. 49.)  do help us with the knowledge of every truth. Here (saith Augustine f.) we find whatsoever is to be done, or not done Allthings (saith Chrisostome 
g Comment: in 2 These: 2. ) that are meet to be known, in God's word are manifested. The same saith justine 
h In Apol: 2. et. inst. Stror●. l. 6. , Clemens 
i 2. Lib. 2. e. l.  Paraeus 
k Disput. Aphoris in Bellarm de verb. dei. Aphor. 1.  Polanus, 
l Synt. theol. lib. 1. C. 46. , Cartwright 
m Answ. to the Rhem on Heb. 9 sec●. 2. , B, Hall 
n Rom. irrecon. sect. 16. , D. james 
o Manuduct. to divinit. Pag. 1. . & others. The Assumption is proved thus: If the hearing in question be condemned in scripture: than it is no privilege of the Church: but the first is true. therefore the second.  
The first part which is only controversal is evident & clear by these scriptures. Levit. 17. 3. 4. deu. 12. 5. Pro. 5. 8. Hos. 4. 15. Mat. 7. 15. 2. Cor. 7. 15. 16. 17. Revel: 18. 4. Son. 1. 6. 7. To this all sorts of writer's ascent. Zanchie 
p Explicat. in Philp. c. 3. ver. 2, pag. 17 4. Tom. 4.  on philip. 3. 2. Beware of dogs: Writes thus: Tales doctores, qui testimonium non habent ab Apostolis, Apostolicisque viris atque ecclesijs: nempe summa diligentia ac studio curandum esse, ut eos observemus, cognoscamus, et fugiamus: Such Teachers as have not their authority, From the Apostles, and Apostolical men, & true churches, we ought with great study and care to observe, know, & avoid them. The Authors 
q Admon. ●. pag. 27.  of the Admonition to the parliament affirm: Whosoever preacheth by an unlawful calling he may not be heard: Noah, though he speak the truth, no more than the Devil was to be suffered, howbeit he preached Christ. As God (saith One 
r T. C. repl. 1. p. 83. 155. ) hath ordained that the word should be preached, so also in what order & by whom: And therefore as we care for the truth, so we must of whom we receive it. So judicious Rolloc: 
s Comment. in 1 Thes. 5. 21. l. P. 228. : Non audiendi et explorandi sunt, nisi qui antegrestam ad id vocationem habent aliquam. They are not to be heard & tried, who have not a lawful fore-gooing calling to the ministry. And of the same judgement, is Rivetus, 
t Comment. in psa. 16. pag. 52 , musculus 
v Comment. in Mat. 7. 15. , Oecolampadius 
x Comment. in Esa. c. 2. sol. 20. , Calvin 
y in Psal. 16. , Fenner 
a Interpretat. Son. chap. 1, ●. 6. 7. , Lation 
b Zion's Plea. pag. 283. : yea the papists in this point are sounder than either the Pistler or his Leader.: Paul, 
c The Pope's first Breve, dated in the years 1606, , the fift, in a certain Bull sent to his Calves in England (Catholics Imight have said) chargeth them by all means, not to go to the parish Churches, or hear their sermons, lest they incur the wrath of God. The Rhemists 
d Annot in 1. Cor. 10. sest, 21  say the like: so the Douai translators. & add thus: Such as go unto false Churches, are to be counted of that rank Paul speaks of, in Tit. 1. Vit. who confess they know God but in works deny. him. 
e In 1 king. chap. 5. v. 19 .  
For the munition therefore which he speaks of here, if this sinful hearing be his best, to preserve God's Church from the attempts of adversaries. Let him keep it himself: for we know (oh that we had never known it) by unhappy experience, the use & nature of it. As the jews of old by taking the Egyptians for their munition 
f Esa. 30. 2. 3. , where it hath entertainment, a very fyerbrand that consumeth the building: a Gangrene that stays not in one place but corrupteth by degrees the whole body, & kills It 
a Fernel, Amb. physiolog. l, 7. ●● p SIXPENCES. : in a word it is as the wild Boar of the forest, which wasteth the Lord's vineyard. 
b Witness the Church of Leiden whe by this means now sits sol●tary, that was full of people. thy Calse O Samaria hath cast thee off. hos. 8. 5.   
The Butler talks of Athalias spirit, & compares his opposites to her, but surely were not his eyes blinded, with the unlawful love of his dear Delilah, he might see that the similitude holds better another way. Did not that wicked woman occasion troubles in Israel, 
c 2 King. 11.  by seeking to put down their right king, & set up herself (a usurper & murderer) in the place of him: now what else (speak on your credit) hath this idolatrous hearing done, since the time it was hatched? but like the thing that God hates, sowed discord among brethren, 
d Pro. 6. 19  & why? because it tendeth to the putting down, of our true king Christ jesus, & to raise up Antichrist again, that bloody Tyrant.  
2. touching the personal wrong here offered to his opposites: as naming them the enemies of God, church renters, schisme-makers: matching them with most notorious sinners: & publishing to the world private things purposely to disgrace them. I think this not worthy of answer: the men are now at rest: besides such was their good walking when they lived, as that his uncharitable tongue and pen, cannot weaken their well deserved praise, among the saints that knew them. Notwithstanding sober words would better have becomed him. Is this religion? is this conscience? is this charity? To tell in the ears of the world private things against brethren. Methinks the man should blush at it: specyallie being reputed (or at least would be) one of large Charity, 
e tantane animis calestibus ●rae, Aneid. l. 1.  and a great reprover of others for rash censuringe: Now knows he not what an odious thing it is, to condemn that thing in another, wherein he himself in the mean time is a transgressor, this not only lies under the just reproof of the scriptures. 
f Mat 7. 3 4. Rom 1. 21.  But also condemned by heathens. It is note of folly (saith Tully) 
g est enim proprium stulriti●● aleg●ru● vitiae cernere oblivissi suorum. Tul: de offi●. l. 3.  to see another man's faults & forget our own, foe in the Poet.  Turpe est doctori, cum culpa redarguit ipsum. 
But it is no new thing, for such as are earnestly zealous for the church's reformation, that all things may be there according to the divine pattern, to be tongue-bitten by innovators & corruptors of religion: for so were the Prophets used, 
h ● King. 18. 18 Eze: 4. 15. Am 7. 10.  so was Christ 
i Luk. 23. 25. Ieh. 19 12.  & 
k Act 19 12. Act. 17. 6. Act. 24. 6.  his Apostles served by the jews. So in ages after, Constantine 
l S●zomen: l. 1. c. 8.  was accused as a pervertor of God's order, because he furthered and followed christianity. Other goodmen wanted not their cross this way, but were always reviled with most words of reproach, & deemed of their adversaries the vilest persons of the earth. When the Scythians as Justine 
m Just. l. 2.  reports saw they could not overcome their enemies with weapons: they laid them aside & took up whips. Men in error do so: finding in scriptures nothing for them, they make whips with their tongues: that is, slander always their opposites with heresy; schism, pride, obstinacy, disloyalty, sedition, et quid non: hoping to get that by railing, of which they have no 〈◊〉 to get by reasoning. 
a Such a one he seems to be▪ that hath set forth the New English Canaon. the profane Ishmael seeks to disgrace the truth by scoffing at it. As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him as hedelighted not in blessing, so let it be fare from him psa: 109, 17.   
3. But to speak a little of the accusation itself: How soeveuer I will not meddle with their division, neither justify his opposites in the manner of their departure: not withstanding, all though he wipe his mouth, & would make others, chief authors of the breach: yet the truth is, he & such which went ordinarily unto false churches, with such as justified and abetted so vile a practice, were principally the instruments, of that great scandal. It is a received Tenent amongst the learned: Such are the causers of contention, that bring new doctrines into the Churches of God.  

b Come. in Rom. 16. 17. 18. ot. 1 Cor. 1. p. 7.  Pareus describes the authors of dissensions, to be men that adulterate pure doctrine by humane inventions, violate the discipline of the Church, & seek by sugared words, & counterfeit zeal to pervert others. To the same effect writes Gaulter, 
c Comment. in Rom: 16. 17.  Mornaeus, 
d lib: de Eceles. l. 2.  Martyr, 
e de Calib et vot: count. Smit.  Morton, f Parker: 
g On the Crossed pa. 2. c. 9 sect. 3 p. 116  yea some Papists too, as Cassander 
h De Rora. Eceles. art, 7.  & others.  
To apply this, seeing the Publisher and others with him, have committed apparent idolatry, meantained it in the Church, & sought thereby, to pervert the right ways of the Lord, and to draw the sincere into error & sin: it must follow necessarily, that the strife & contention which hath fallen out upon it, either among brethren of their own congregation or else where, came chiefly by their occasion, & means.  
For the exclamation therefore, which he and others take up against the godly, 
i Apol. l. 2.  for their contentions, I mind it truly, as a great profanes in them. We would count him a most vile person, that would do whatsoever he could, to make another angry, and when he saw him so, would reproach him for it, blaze it abroad, speak of it behind his back, to his great disgrace. It were happy for some if they had never abused God's people this way, by seeking (as it were) to anger them in hearing unlawful ministers, marrying their wives by Popish licenses, thorough justifying halters & neuters, comunicating spiritually with Antichristians: & other such muddy stuff found the valy: & afterwards perceving them to be stirred hereat, cry out with a full mouth. oh what a contentious people are they, oh how scandalous, better for aman to walk alone, then with such a company. And this shallbe published in Gath & Askelon, that the enemies of the Lord may rejoyse & triumph. 
* A seru●●● that runs away 〈…〉 of his master.   
But good it were, that these make bats did consider of that great day, in which Christ shall appear in the brightness of his father, to avenge the quarle of his least commandment? when God riseth 
a joh 31. 14.  up, wh●● 〈◊〉 they answer him? what will they say, when he shall not only cl●●ge them, with idolatry & covenant-breaking. But also to be the cause, & ground of the divisions, & schisms in his churches: by means whereof, his name was blasphemed, the souls of the righteous grieved, the truth slandered, the weak scandalised, & the wicked hardened in evil.  
It is sure [as some do observe 
b Pareus in Rom: 14. ver: 13. pag. 469. ] that a more grievous punishment is reserved for them which cause others to offend, then for they which do such things themselves. Thus the serpent was punished more than Eve, she more than Adam: so lezebel felt heavier & deeper judgement than Ahab. To sin hath not so much perdition in it as to induce others to sin, so Chrisostome. 
c Peccare non tantum in se per litionis habet quantum quod reliqia ad peccandum inducuntur. hom. 25 in Epist: ad Rom. in mor. ad locum.   
Who is wise, that he may understand these things, & prudent that he may take knowledge of them: for the ways of Jehovah are righteous, & the just shall walk in them, but the 
d When at the day of judgement it so●lbe laid to their charge that they have given scandal, they will wish rather to have been drowned Parr on Rom: chap. 14. v. 13. p. 173.  rebels shall fall in them.   

SECTION 2.  
THus [Reader] thou hast seen the reasons, why the Treatise was published: Now in the next place the Epistoler entreats thee, to take notice of two things: 1. That this practice of hearing unlawful ministers, Is not against any article of saith, which is by the Church professed whereof the author of this treatise was pastor.  
Answer 1. Nay stay there, that is not so, for in Article 31. of our profession, (consented unto by master Robinson 
e justification of Separate: pag. 123, ) this thing is absolutely condemned. We, speaking there of Antichristian Assemblies profess, that the faithful may not have any spiritual communion in their public administrations. And for proof thereof, these scriptures are alleged 
f Reu: 18. 3. 4. Hos: 4. 14. 15. 1 Cor: 10 14. 17 2 cro: 6. 14. 15. Son. 1. 6. 7. . But saith he in the same place, this is no act of communion. I answer, our Christian predecessors so understood it, and so do the faithful generally to this day: besides this new devise wants, as truth so common sense: for it is, as if one should affirm, that he eats and drinks, but partaketh not in the things he useth. 
g Hoccine credibile est, aut memorabile Teren. And: Act. 4. so. 1: ● .  
But it may be he thinks the following lines will help him. If hearing simply were an act of communion, than every heretic, or Atheist, or whatsoever he were, that should come into the church, should have communion, which if it were true, it were good that every Church that will avoid Communion with profane men to meet in private, and then shut the door, when their own company is met together, or else I cannot see, 
* New you may, if you shut ● et your eyes against the lig●● a Regula 〈◊〉 est distinguere aliter omnia quae a so invicem Possum seperari.  how they can avoid communion with wicked men,  
Answ. It is a certain rule (as Logicians teach) things are really to be distinguished, which in themselves are to be separated each from other. The ignorance of this distinction, is a main cause (as I have observed) of some men's erring in this point of hearing: for they think, (as the Pistler here unwisely writes) that if members of true Churches have not communion with the unbelievers which come unto their meetings: that then it will follow, that they may be present in false Churches in time of public exercise, and yet have no communion. 
Melano. l. 4. distinct. Systemat. theol. 1. c 4 P. 58.   
To reply briefly: (for I purpose to speak more largely of this in an other place) There is besides Church communion, a communion in the ordinances of the Church: as in the state itself, ministry, worship, Government: Howsoever therefore a man be no member actually, of such, or such a body: And so in that respect (to speak properly) he hath no Church communion: yet being there a worshipper, he communicates in the actions done, I say whether they are good or evil.  
The christian Corinthians were separated formally from the Heathen-state, and constituted in a true Church-state: notwithstanding Paul saith, 
b 1 Cor. 10.  that such among them, as went unto Idol Temples, had there communion: as how? not Church communion, but they communicated in the evils there practised. They communicated as 
c Comment. 1 Cor. 10. ver. 18. pag. 640.  Pareus layeth with idols, or as Jerome 
d on the same place.  phraseth it, the participation of devils. To be short according to Bezas' 
e ciusdem cultus ac sacrificij sunt conscij, sive in eodem sacri ficio consortes, ac socij, ac ejus quasivinculo in eadem religione cop●●lati.  interpretation, they were guilty of the same service & sacrifice, or were companions and consorts therein, and coupled themselves (as it were) in the same religion.  
To apply this to our point in controversy, If an Heretic Atheist, or whatsoever he be, come to our Churches, we acknowleidge he hath communion: to weet, in the ordinances: how be it no Church communion, that is, no communion in, or with the saints gathered into the faith and order of the Gospel: so in going unto unlawful Assemblies, if a man be no member, his communion there, is not with the people in that state, but in the humane inventions: 
Beza Anno●● in 1. Cor. 10. 1, pag. 137.  that is the Idol Church, will-worship, false ministry, and other such abominations: And this common reason showeth, for he that is not a member of a Corporation, may yet communicate, in the administrations thereof, howbeit (true it is (in, or with the body he doth it not.  
We need not therefore shut our doors against any person, for there follows no danger, by their coming unto us: afore howsoever [as I said] they have communion, yet not with us, but rather in the things practised with us. Now what can the Pistler hence conclude? only thus: [unless he be Graculus inter musas ‡] If I may do a lawful thing, than I may do an unlawful thing: If a foreiner may partake in the civil justice of true magistrates, than he may so do, in the sinful administrations of Rebels and Traitors. I wrong him not: for his reasoning and this [●] is all one in substance: If it be lawful to communicate in a true Church, 
Omnia idem pului●, Lucian.  with Christ's ministry and worship; then a man may lawfully communicate in a false Church with Antichrists ministry and worship. I could say more, but I am loath to discover his nakedness too fare. But no marvel when men leave the way of truth if foolish and false things do follow,  
2. But admit this hearing were not against any article of our Churches? what is the note, that the Reader must then observe: Surely unless the Epistoler would be noted for nonsense, we must needs conceive, that he holds, as the Papists 
f Bellarm●de c Rom. po●●: l. 4. 1. 4. Rhemist. n Luk. 18. sect▪ 4▪  do: to wit, that the Church cannot err: and therefore we must believe as the Church believes. But are you in good earnest? well, we will so take it, till we are better informed. In the mean time take you notice what the Lord saith 
g Esa: 8: 20 , To the Law and to the Testimony: 
h Serm,: debem 〈◊〉.  if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them,  
Take notice also, what Augustine 
k Just mart. count: tryph●  saith: we ought to believe a Church, but not in a Church, because the Church is not God, but the house of God. To the like purpose others: Neither Pastor, Council, 
i B: Bilson. par 2. p. 266  or Angel, aught in point of faith to be received, I say not against, but without or beside the scriptures. These k are only safe. & 
l Hilar: in psa 86.  to be credited▪ for humane pra●pts they want weight: 
m Lactan: l 3. c 17.  they bind not. 
n Id cont: Fairest: l. 23.  ego soli scripturae fido said Theodoret 
o Z●nch. de Tripl. Epis. p▪ 103. . I give trust to the scripture alone. And some papists in words say no less: as Thomas of Aquine, 
p l 9 art. vlt.  Abbas, 
q Deelect cap, significasti.  pan● 〈…〉 Gerson, 
r In locchis P●pper. Mech●inien●.  Picus Mirandula. 
s Quaest ●an Pa su●. con.  Occam, 
t Dial. l. ●. p. 1. c. 28.  P. Pi●s the second 
u Abba● Vespers●n●is:? p. 443.  and Others.  
In conclusion then, seeing the hearing of unlawful Ministers, is flat against scripture articles, (as we ha●e partly manifested, and God willing, more will do) we ● must 〈◊〉 as Jerome▪ 
x in Mat. 23  speaks) it, though it should in the mean time be justified and practised by many Churches and people.  
The second thing, which he desires may be noted is, that this hearing was not in the judgement of the Church esteemed as a thing that might not be borne with all.  
Answ: 1: The doctrine of the Nicolaitans (which was 
a Trenan▪ l. 1▪ 27. Epiphanc. 1. Tom. 1. E●●●● 3. 29.  that adultery and fornication were no sins, and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters, in their idol temples) was not in the judgement of the Churches at Pergamos, and Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be borne withal: was the same therefore good? indeed such a conclusion we must either here gather from his words: or conclude he knew not well what he wrote.  
2. To the judgement of that Church, when they wrote to London: I may oppose their former and better judgement: for with reverence to the Phrase, from the beginning this was not so: for in their constitution, and many years after, they held 
* Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works. Reu. 2. 5.  hearing of unlawful Ministers a very unlawful practice.  
And so much appears in sundry passages Published to the world by the Pastor himself. And for the Readers better satisfaction, I think it not amiss to sert down their Own words,  
Those 
b Munumission to a manuduction pag. 5.  who partake in the work of Preaching of one sent by the Bp: DO PARTAKE IN WHAT LIETH IN THEM IN THE AUTHORITY OF THE SENDER. Again The authority of Ministers in their Parishional Churches, 
c Page. 4.  may not be, by God's people partaken with, no not in actions otherwise Lawful, under the pains of Babylon's Plagues. Again in another book 
d Religious Communion pag. 20.  thus they writ: Let all them that fear God, consider, that when they come to worship in the Parish Assemblies, they join themselves where God hath not joined them, and do acknowledge that society for the Church of God, and communion of saints, which he hath not sanctified for that purpose, and in saying ourfather with them, they acknowledge them, for the children of God, who in the persuasion of their consciences are of their father the devil. And in the same book a little after: 
e pag. 32.  Their very administrations by unlawful calling, are the sins, and so to PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR ADMINISTRATIONS, IS TO PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR SINS: contrary to. Timot. 5. 22. Reu. 14. 4. In their answer to, Master Barnerds book, thus they writ largesie of this point. 
f Justification of Separate: pag. 78. 79. 80. ●e also page 17. 162. 276. 433.  Some of which, is as followeth.  
But the thing which most grieves Mr. B▪ and at which he hath greatest indignation Pap. 62. is, that we will not hear his sermons though he preach nothing but the true word of God. And so he desires to hear of us, where the hearing of the true word of God only preached is sin and forbidden by Christ, or the Prophets or Apostles.  
For answer hereof I would know first whether Mr. B. speaking here and in many other places, of the true Word of God, do means that God hath a true word and a false word, or rather bewray not an accusing conscience, that they in England have not the true word truly taught, that is, in a true office of Ministry?  
Now for the demand (referring the reader for more full satisfaction to that which hath been published at large by others) I do answer, that as it was unlawful to 
* N●mb. 16. 2. C●. 26. 1 King. 12.  communicate with Corah or with uzziah though they offered true sacrifices, so IS IT UNLAWFUL▪ TO COMMUNICATE WITH ADEVISED MINSTERY, WHAT TRUTH SOEVER IS TAUGHT IN IT.  
Secondly the Lord hath promised no blessing to his word but in his own ordinance, though by his superaboundand mercy he oft times vouchsafe that which no man can chalendg by any ordinary promise  
Thirdly * no man may partake in other men's sins, 
●●m. 5. 12.  but every Ministry either devised or usurped is the sin of him which exerciseth it. 
Rev. 18. 4.  And as no good subject would assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civil Justice to the King's subjects, (no not though he administered the same never so equally and indifferrently) except the same person had commission from the King so to do: so neither ought the subjects of the kingdom of Christ to partake with any person whomsoever in the dispensation of any spiritual thing: (though in itself never so holy) withot sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and sovereign King of his Church Christ jesus. And where Mr. B. speaks of hearing the true word of God only preached, he intimates therein, that if we would hear him preach it would satisfy him well▪ and so teacheth us with himself and others to make a schism in the Church, in using one ordinance and not an other.  
It is all one whether a man communicate with the minister in his pulpit or with the Chancellor in his consistory, both of them minister by the same power of the Bishop. The Chancellor may judge justly, & who knows whither or no the Minister will teach truly? And if he do not, but speak the vision of his own heart, what remedy hath the Church, or what can they that hear him do? May they rebuke him openly according to his sin, and so bring him to repentance? or must they not bear his errors yea his heresies also during the pleasure of the Bishops, even their Lord, & his?  
And would you Mr. B. be content your people should hear a masse-Priest or Jesuit, though he professed as loud as you do, that he would teach the true word of God? And think not scorn of the match, for you have the self same office with a mass Priest though refined. If he be ordained by a Bishop (though it be the Bishop of Rome) he may minister in any Church of England by virtue of that ordination. Andbesides masse-Preists preach some and those the main truths, and the Ministers in England neither do nor dare preach all, no nor some which (it may be) the others do.  
Is it not better then for the servants of the L. jesus to exercise and aedify themselves according to the model of grace received, though in weaker measure, then to be so simple as to come to your feasts, though you cry never so loud unto them, thinking that because your stolen waters are sweet, and your hidden bread pleasant, that they have no power to pass by, but must needs become your guests?  
And here (to use the Pistlers words,) it is well to be marked by the Reader, how the Church when these things were written, enjoyed as a Pastor, so a judicious Ruling Elder too, and their company greater by fare then it was, when that letter was framed.  
Such as write of the Government of Commonwealths do hold it for a rule, that to redress abuses in any State, a better Way cannot be taken, then to have things brought to their first institution. Hence it is, that the Venetians, have a supreme Magistracy, which they call A Syndicate that once in a few years, ● surveys all the Offices and dignities in their wealth that so all things may continue and stand entire, according to the rules and precepts of their first Constitutions and Ordinances.  
If the Pistler had desired the common good of that Church: he would have sought, to have had things reduced to their primitive Original, and good beginning: and not Mention as he doth, their deprivations, declinations, departures 
* ser●en● qualitas vi●i dignoscitur. : as a rule for all Posterity to measure their faith and actions by. It is an infallible maxim, (as D: Usher 
g De Christianor Eccl. success. et stat●● cap. 1. pag. 19  and other observe out of Tertullian 
h Id verum quodcunque primum. id adultorum quod cunque posterius. ) whatsoever is first, that is truest, and what comes after is adulterate. The first in any kind, or sort of things is truest and best: so Field.  
3. But admit there were many that held this hearing lawful, and so have done along time, what of this; is the thing he better for that? in no wi●e: For not custom or multitudes must be followed, but the truth of God's word. Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, 
I. Of the Church. l. 2. c. 5. p. 49.  neither Observe their judgements, nor defi●e yourselves with their idols 
k Ezech. 20.  The like precept we have, in 3: ●ch: 11. Fellow not that which is evil, but that which is good.  
Cyprian and others of the Fathers (as they are called) speak well to this purpose: we must 
l Non debemus attende●e quid alius ante nos f●cerit aut faciendum putaverit sed quid ante omnes est Christus prior fecerit. Cyp● Epist. 63.  not regard what others did be fore us, or thought fit to be done, but what Christ did who was before all. We Must 
m non est de consuetudene praescribendum sed ratione vin cendum. Epist. 74.  not prescribe upon custom, but persuade by reason. Whatsoever 
n Tertullian lib de vi●g:  savoureth against the truth, it is heresy be the practice thereof, never so ancient. Non illa tantum in religione fugienda, quae Verbo dei adversantur: sed ea etiam quae verbo dei, non sunt praescripta, etiamsi ab acutissimis hominibus excogitata, a doctissimis defensa, et diuturna consu etudine recepta. Not only in religion must we avoid all things contrary to the word of God; but also whatsoever is not therein prescribed: 
o Polanus Comment: in Ezec: 20 pag. 481.  yea howbeit the same should be devised by the acutest men, defended by the most learned, and received by long custom.  
Then we serve God, 
p. Fox Act. and mon: p. 18 29.  when in his worship, we follow his word, and not man's fantasies, custom, multitude &c: so Bradford the martyr.  
Thus we have (according to his entreaty) taken a view of his two things, the which are so vain and frivelous, as indeed deserved no answer. yet lest any of that faction should think we passed them over without any examintion, because we feared the weight and force thereof: I have briefly replied: and desire the humble and godly Reader, to con●ider what both have written.   

SECTION: 3.  
●The Epistoler having ended his two observations, prepareth now himself in the next place (in earnest) for disputation 
* Dulce bell●●● in expertis. : And first of all, (after some spiteful words cast on his opposites,) like Thraso in Terence (who thought himself a none-such, 
o. Metuebant omnes iam me. in Eunuch:  and thereupon boastingly praiseth himself: They are all afraid of me, 
Act: 3. sc. 1.  as if he had done some great pe●ce● of service,) he daringlie provokes who 
* Et calum territat armis. Virg. in Aeneid:  will to reply, if their stomaches serve. And because he will speak (omissis nugis) to the purpose indeed. He undertakes to handle the point in controversy methodically: that is, to propound first his opposites objections. And afterwards to give some answer to them,  
First (saith he) they object & say that we hold the Church of England to be a false Church, and the ministers thereof to be Antichristian, and yet we go thither to worship, and this say they is absurd.  
His answer hereto is: Before we answer directly to this objection, we shall entreat the Reader, and themselves to consider of what follows.  
Answ: we read of one Doria the Admiral of Genua, that fight at sea against the Saracens, he fetched his course so fare about to gain the wind, that he could never come to strike a blow before the battle was ended. The Epist: is here fallen into such a wild and wand'ring course, for seeking to get some advantage by windy words, he goes quite away from the thing which he propounded, and comes not again to speak either much or little of it.  
But no marvel our new master 
* It seems the Pist: is one of Antontes scholars mentioned in Tully, who wisheth men if they be troubled about a hard question to say nothing to it.  hath showed us such a trick: 
Cic, de orat, l. 2,  the truth is (as one 
a D. Covel, Church Government. c, 1, p▪ 5,  speaks in the like case) he made the objection stronger than he was able to answer: Better therefore to be silent then light a candle to discover his own nakedness.  
But it may be he, or others of that side, willbe the more willing to reply, if they shall see this argument laid down in some better form. If that will do it, we will do our best to make way for them. Thus than we reason.  
To worship God in any other way or manner, than he hath in his word prescribed, is unlawful:  
But to hear Antichristian Ministers in false Churches, is to worship God in a way and manner which he hath not prescribed:  
Therefore it is a sin to do it.  
The mayor no man dares deny I assure myself: For it is manifest and certain by the whole course of the scriptures. Deu: 12. 8. Levit. 10. 20. psa: 119: 133: Mic. 7. 18: Hos: 9 15 John 4. 23. mat. 15. 3. 4. Colos 2, 8. 2 joh. 16. 17.  
Moreover all sorts and sects of writers acknowledge this For a truth. Zanchy 
b Explicat: in Coloss: 2● 23. pag. ●19. To●●. 4,  saith, Deus et solus vult coli, et eo solo cultu, quem ipse instituit. God will be worshipped alone, and with that worship alone, which he himself hath appointed. So writes Luther, 
c Comment. in Galat. Cap. 6. pag, 871.  Omnis talis religio, qua colitur deus sine verbo et mandato eius, idolatria est, et quo ea est sanctior et spiritualior in speciem, hoc pernicior et p●stilentior est.  
All such religion wherein God is worshipped without his word & precept, it is idolatry, and the more holy and spiritual the same is in show, the more dangerous & pernicious it is.  
Brentius 
* Qui●unque cultus 〈…〉 tam aut verbum 〈…〉 ta tum ab●st, 〈…〉 ut major●m ab●●t 〈…〉 ●psi 〈…〉 cap. ●, ●0, 2▪  a man of rare learning among the followers of Luther saith; whatsoever worship is set up without the commandment or word of God, it is so fare from being acceptable to him, that a greater abomination thou canst not put upon him. the like saith Chrisostome Etenim quod fit iuxta dei voluntatem quamvis videatur improbum ess●, tamen omnino deo gratum est, et accceptum: contra, Quod fit praeter dei voluntatem, quanquam existimatur 〈◊〉 deo, tamen est omnium pessimum et iniquissimum. Of a truth that which is 〈◊〉 according to the will of God, although it seem to be wicked, yet it is altogether pleasant & acceptable ●o him: 
〈…〉  Contrariwise whatsoever is done besides the will of God, & otherwise then he will have it done: though it be esteemed as a thing acceptable to him, yet it is of all other the worst and most wicked.  
Famous junius 
e Election ●n Ion: cap. 3. ●. 48.  writes so too, God will not be worshipped either for matter or manner, but in his own way. And this is the judgement of Calvin, 
f Instit. l 4. c. 10 Sect. 30.  Chemnitius, 
g Exam. par. 1 pag. 82.  Cha●sanio, 
h Loc. comm. pag 328  Aretius, 
i Exam Theol. pag. 42▪  Piscator, 
k In deu. 12▪ Observ. 4.  Keckerman, 
l System. The●l. pag. 401  Trelca●ius, 
m Loc. comm. pag. 10▪  D. Fu●ke, 
n Refutat. of Rastel. pa. 339  D. Androwes: 
o Catach: upon the second comt:  B. Jewel, 
p Repl. to Hard. Art. 1. divis. 29. pag. 604  and others.  
Touching the minor or second part, I may spare all proofs, and send them to their own consciences, For confirmation and conviction.  
For: 1: That this hearing is a worship, the same is manifest and clear to any that have an eye of reason, and any light of religion shining in them: None to my knowledge (saving a poopish Parasite 
q Howson. Serm ●n Psal. 118. pag. 78  or two) ever held otherwise, And they by men of better judgement 
r Dr. La●ton▪ in Zion's Plea▪ p. 327.  have been sharply blamed for it.  
Again, that this worship is done in a way and manner which the Lord never appointed, it is as clear as the sun at noon day, & cannot with any modest face be denied.  
The Treatiser 
* Pag. 37▪  confesseth that it is no particular Ordinance left by Christ: mark that: and, in another place, 
s justificat▪ Separate p. 93, 94  a false Church, saith he, is a real and substantial idol.  
Also 
t Re●●giour communion. p. 37  Every such Government & ministry, as is not commanded by God and Christ, is an idol forbidden in the second commandment: & all subjection to it, is a bowing down to an idol.  
To compare now all this, first with the scriptures: Is the Church an idol, 
Abridgement p. ●3  the ministry an idol, the Government an idol etc. In the words then of the Prophet: 
u Hos. 14, ●  what have we do any more with idols? what agreement hath the Temple of God with idols ● 
x 2 Cor. 6▪ 14  For we are the Temple of the living God? Is it not said: Little children keep yourselves from idols. Again, my dear Beloved flee from idolatry. But how? ment et corpore: (saith Pareus,) 
a Comment▪ in 1 Cor. 10, ver. 14. pag. 614  in mind & body, that is the worship & reverence of Idols: And to flee idolatry, is not only to absteane from it, but with all the heart to avoid it, as an abominable thing & a most hurtful plague.  
Again, a little after on the same place, whosoever 〈◊〉 a christian, it is necessary that he be careful, to keep himself from all idolatriè, & the occasions, kinds, and instruments thereof: so he.  
2. To compare their former positions, with the doctrines taught us by learned men. junius 
b Sacrifica●ur autem da●●nibus fi a●●a ●●co aut ●●tù & modo sacrificatur, quam prascrip●it dominus.  in his notes upon Leuit: 17▪ 17▪ saith thus, men sacrifice to devils, if they sacrifice either in any other place or after other rite or manner, than the Lord hath prescribed.  
B: Babington 
c Comfortable notes upon Levit. 17. pag. 130.  writing on these words, what mansoever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth on ox, etc. And bringeth it not to the door of the Tabernable, etc. saith: Hereby was signified that only in the Church, by faith in the chief high priest Christ jesus, sacrifice and service accepted of God, is, and can be offered and done, and no where else. And of this judgement was 
d Deu. 12, p. 178  Luther, Brentius, 
e Exegis. in Ioh: 4.  Calvin, & others. 
f Levit. 17.   
Touching the high places 
* 1 Kin. 12. 31 2 King. 12. 3 2 King. 4. 14 jer. 1●. 5. Eze. 6. 2 and 6. 25  of which we read often in scripture. The time was when it was lawful to offer sacrifices upon them, So writes Augustine 
g Quaest 36. in lib. judg. , Drusius 
h Ad difficul. loc. Deu. 12. cap. 68 pag. 571. , Rivetus 
i Comment. in Hos. 4. 13. pag. 148. , and others. And so much our Learned Ainsworth in his Annotations upon Leuit: 17. 5. observeth out of the Hebrew Rabbins. Before the Tabernacle was set up, the high places were lawful, & the service was by the first borne: after the Tabernacle was erected, the high places were unlawful and the service (was performed) by the priests. Thalmud: Bab: in zebachim: chapt. 14.  
Besides the Fathers of old, many hundred years there worshipped 
k Brint. Amos: c. 7. pag. 43.  almighty God, in spirit and truth. Notwithstanding it was Israel's great sin so to do 
l Amos 7. 9▪ . And the reason hereof is laid down by Zanchie 
m Comment. in Hos. 4. 13. pag. 81. . Quia verba non habebant, cur debere hoc facere, they had no divine precept for it: and wanting that, idcirco fornicabantur, saith Mercer 
n Comment. in Hos. 4. 13. pag. 42. : they committed therefore Fornication. Here also it must be noted, that in these places they worshipped not idols 
o Calvin. pralect. in Hos. 4.  but the true God, 
* Deum quidem col●bant pa●●um▪ sed ●li●i quam loco quem ●legerat: junius Ann●t. in 1 King. 12. v. 4.  & the sacrifices which they there offered, were according to the law, 
p 1. 50  their intention and meaning good 
q Lavaterus in Iosh: c. 22. ●om. 59 p. 70▪ : and the reason why they made choice of them, was out of devotion, and for imitation sake of the Patriarches 
r Al●●ed. prae●: 2. p. 370. cognit. ●●eol , & quasi caelo propriora 
s Brentius Comment. in Amo: 7. p▪ 42 O●●●●mp. in Hos. 4. 13. , as being nearer to Heaven and the like.  
Now if it were a fault in them, to carry the oblations under the law, to a place (howbeit sometimes lawful, and where their godly ancestors had before truly worshipped) because they had no commandment so to do: Then certainly more in fault are those, which (with the worship of the gospel) go, where it was never lawful publicklie to serve God, and where their forefathers never to this day, rightly served him: I mean to an idol-Church, and there offer up spiritual sacrifices, in, by, and with an idol-ministerie: I say there being in the word of God no one precept for it.  
If the Pistler can show us, what coulorably can be said, for the justification of this latter: which the old idolatrous jews, could not say as well, or rather better in the defence of the former.  Et eris mihi magnus Apollo. 
In conclusion I shall desire every christian heart, unto whom the Lord hath given wisdom, to consider seriously of these things. If the Prophet, only for his civil eating in a place prohibited, felt so sore and grievous a punishment: ah▪ what judgements then, may all such justly expect, who dare eat spiritually any where, against the express commandment of God.  
Was the Lord so zealous For the ordinances of the old law, to have his people observe as the substance, so every circumstance: whether it respected the place, the person, the time, or any other rite: and shall we think that now he cares not, whether men be precise & strict in doing all the particulars belonging to the worship of the new Testament.  
Ought we not to believe, that as God hath commanded us to worship him, that is, to hear his word, receive the sacraments & to use other his ordinances, so he hath also called, and separated unto himself a Church, a communion of saints and holy ones, in, and amongst whom, those holy things are to be used: And that we are to look in what fellowship and communion we receive the holy things of God as what the things are, we do receive. In a word ought we not to be persuaded that as the legal sacrifices out of the Tabernacle or Temple, within whose circle they were prescribed by the mouth of God, were unlawfully offered: so all the ordinances and exercises of the Church under the Gospel, done out of a true constituted Church, are altogether and every way sinful.  
Unto the place which the Lord your God shall choose out of all your tribes, 
Deu. 12. 5. 6. 7. 8.  to put his Name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come. And thither ye shall bring your burnt-offrings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks. And there shall ye eat before the Lord your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that you put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the Lord thy God hath blessed thee. Ye shall not do every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.  
But seeing the Epistoler hath something to say, we will now give him audience: the sum of his long discourse is this.  
A Church may be said to be false in divers respects, as first in respect of outward order, when the same is not gathered according to the rule of Christ.  
2. In respect of faith and doctrine. To the latter we will not counsel any man to go: but only the other. Howbeit he confesseth this la●ter false & Antichrictian.  
Answ: 
Eu ipides.  1: Pantheus in the poet * thought he saw two suns in the firmament, when there was indeed but one: it was the distraction in his head, that made him so to think. I will not say, that the Pissed: when he wrote this was in such a distemperature; But this I am sure of, their conceptions are both alike: For where (I pray you) do yo● read in the scriptures, of two kinds of Antichristian Churches; speak out man? show us the place, the Chapter, the verse: ingenious dealing requires it: As for your bare saying, it is fare from proof: To affirm or deny (according to Aristotle 
a Propter nostrurm affirmare, vel negare, nihil in re sequitur. De ●nterp lib. 1. c. 6 ) is of no consequence. That some false Churches in some things may be less: corrupt then others, this is possible; Notwithstanding if we consider in what respect they are both false, that is, the ground & cause of their Antichristisme, or falseness, here we shall see no difference at all; No two respects as the unadvised man affirmeth.  
For example, one harlot may commit more whoredom than another: notwithstanding as they are harlots both, so it is of one and the same ca●se: namely Fornication. The like may be spoken of other things, whether Animals, vigetals, minerals: howsoever in goodness or badness they may differ, I mean, as it respects degree, 
e Lib▪ ●. de prop necess c. 8  measure, quantity, etc. yet in the Genus or kind they are one, and no otherwise to be considered. To this purpose writes A●uinas 
b Aquinas 1 Sent. dist. 9 , Scotus 
c Super predicabili● Qua●t. 18▪ , Porphirius 
d Cap. 2. Sect. 32. , Zarabel Keckerman, 
f Systemat. Log. l. ●, c. 3.  and others.  
Besides if that be true in the Philosopher: 
g Opposita sunt sinul in natura Arist. Tropic. l. 6, ●●num est, cutus contrarium est m●lum. R●ctor. l. ●.  opposite things. in nature are alike. Again, this is good whose contrary is evil: it must needs follow, unless the Pissed: be a false Teacher, that as some Churches are visibly true, in respect of faith and order: so others may be true too, having only outwards order albeit the members thereof have no faith at all. The which astertion is not to be answered, but abhorred.  
2. The ten Tribes which departed from the Lord, from his Temple, sacrifices, Priests, altar, and other holy signs of his presence at jerusalem: from that time, and still after, were not God's Church and people: so the scriptures show: Hos: 2, 2, 2 Chro: 15. 3. jer: 3. 8, Hos. 13. 1. Amo: 9 7. This being so, I would gladly know of the Pissed: in which of his two respects they were a false Church? I take it he will say the latter: not only in respect of outward order, but likewise in respect of faith, and doctrine.  
If he grant this, as needs he must (unless he have their spirit, whom the Apostle 
h 1 Pet. 2, 10  termeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prosumptuous and self-willed) note then the consequence: as his respects are foolish, so the Church he pleads for hearing in, is false in both his two respects. The reason is; because the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Bethel, were not in respect of faith and doctrine (to use his terms) more corrupt than the other now is.  
And because he undertakes nudo capite bare-faced and bouldlie to defend Antichrists cause: we shall expect in his next Pistle-making some thing from him, which hitherto no man hath attempted: that is, to answer Mr. Ainsworth: 
i I●roboam●●●pology in his Arrow against idolatry.  and the non-conformists 
k Course of Conformity▪ p. 161, 162  who affirm that the Apostate Jews could justify their way and course of religion: as well if not better, than the other. In short therefore, if he can show us what essential truths his disordered Church retaineth, or gross errors rejecteth, wherein we cannot manifest that the other went as fare, For my part I will freely confess my error, in being a long time persuaded omnia similia that they are both alike, & one no better than the other.  
3. Are the Lords ordinances with the Pissed: only matter of order? What is the Church of Christ, his ministry, the right administrations of the Sacraments & Censures, no points of faith: oh fearful saying. Not only is there wrong here done to the scriptures, but also to many worthy Christians: For were this true, they have sun in vain, their sufferings have been invaine: I mean, our predecessors, and others, who have suffered joyfully the spoiling of their goods, spilling of their blood, etc. I say for this, which according to his writing is no point of faith and doctrine.  
But we need not wonder, that God's house and his Ordinances are thus slighted of him? do not all adulterers after they have set their unclean affections on strangers, think meanly of their own wives, disgrace them what they can: so do Idolaters, etc.  
Now I do not know (this gentleman excluded) one man that hath affirmed, that the whole outward worship of God to be no point of faith. Cartwright speaking of this, terms it the substance of the Gospel 
k T. C. l. 1, pag. 48 Pag. 26  And in the same answer to Whitgyfe he writes thus: You say that in matters of faith and necessary to salvation it holdeth, which things you oppose afterwards and set against matters of ceremonies, orders, discipline, and Government: as though matters of discipline, and kind of government, were not matters necessary to salvation, and of faith. The case which you put whether the Bishop of Rome be head of the Church, is a matter that concerneth the Government & kind of Government of the Church, and the same is a matter that toucheth faith, and that standeth upon our salvation. Excommunication and other censures of the Church, which are forerunners unto excommunication, are matters of discipline, and the same are also of Faith and Salvation. The sacraments of the Lord his Supper, and of Baptism are ceremonies, and are matters of Faith, and necessary to salvation.  
So Fenner 
l Difence of Eccles. discipl. pag. 33 , certain points of discipline, are of necessity to salvation, in such absolute degree of necessity, as is of any ordinary outward means. Of which sore is the ministry of the word, and of the sacraments, and of the censures of the Church.  
Others of the Non-conformists. I could alleidge which say the same, as Parker 
m De pol. Eccles. l. 1, c. 11, pa. 30 , Traverse 
n Necessity of discip. p. 21. , Vdal 
o Demonst. discipl. pref. , Baines 
p Diocese. Trial. pa. 50. , Bates 
q Pa. 60  Yea and Conformists too; as Bilson 
r Perpet: Govern. ch. 1, p. 3 , Whitgyft 
s Treat. 2, c. 1, divis. 2. pa. 80 , Sutclift 
t C●●t. Bez. c. 2 p. 32 , Lo 
u Compl. of the Church p. 60 . Add to these Scultingius 
x Hierar. Anacr. l. 9 p. 1  the Papist. Who calls Ecclesiastical Polity, the soul, joints, and synews of the Church.  
Besides howsoever the Pist: puts out the whole external worship of God, from being points of faith, yet the Reformed Churches in France 
y Art. 25  and the Low countries 
z Art. 30  do put this in, as an article of their faith. To be short, that which he calls order, is in the Treatisers 
a justif. separ: p. 348  opinion, absolutely necessary to the Church, an essential property. And as D. Ames 
b De consc: l. 4 c 24. p. 214  saith, it cannot be a true Church that wants it. For by this, the parts and members thereof are knit together. And this is true, as in divinity, so in Philosophy. For Form (according to Aristotle 
c 3 Phis: 3, 5 ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the reason of the essence. Another: Every thing is senceable by matter and intelligible by form. 
d Averr: in 1. de Calo.  As things by the light are discerned: so we understand the matter by its form 
e Both. de unit. . It is a known Tenent. Form gyves to things, being, distinction and operation. So Keckerman 
f Syst. Theol. l. 1. c. 17. p. 161 , Timpler 
g Metaph; l. 3, c. 2. Pr●bl. 71, 72. , C●●rlm 
h C. 6, pag. 35 , Scallger 
i Ex. 6, S. 3. , and others.  
4. Seeing he holds it unlawful, to go unto any Church which is false in respect of order and doctrine: it must needs follow, that all Antichristian Assemblies are to be wholly left, because they are false in both, these respects.  
And touching the Church of England here pleaded for, what notorious errors and abuses, she mainteaneth and practiseth, may be seen in her Convocation-Canons, visitations, Articles, the English mass book, their manner of making of Bishops, Priests, and Deacons. To let pass the many scoores, of heathenish, jewish, and poopish superstitions, which the Nonconformists 
* See Soldier of Barwick. Table.  have in printed books branded her for.  
And that the measure of her iniquity, 
Zion's pleà.  may come to a speedy fullness. 
Admonitions to the Parliament Altar of Damascus, and other of their books.  Let the Reader observe, the multitude of gross errors, which she hath added lately to the former: And these not only in printed books, the high commission & sermons in the court, city, university, & country averred, but also allowed them by public authority: among sundry other. Romish erroneous positions these. 
p Sec Chowne, Reeve, Pocklinton, Heylen, B. White, B. Mountagùe, Shelford, P●imerose, Laurence, Studly, Coale from the Altar, Bishcp Wren, & other Prelates their visitation Articles.   
The Church of Rome is a true Church: That she hath never erred in fundamentals, no not in the worse times; That personal succession of Bishops is requisite and essential to make a true Church; That the Archbishops and Bishops of England derive their lineal successions and Episcopal dignity from St. Peter's Chair, and the very Sea of Rome, and that we should not acknowleidge them for Bishops in case they either did not, or could not do so. That the Pope of Rome or papacy is not the Antichrist, nor Antichrist yet come, or revealed; That Crucifixes and Images in Churches are lawful, and necessary comely ornaments; That Christ is really present upon earth on the high Altar and Communion table; That Communion tables are Altars; Ministers of the Gospel, Priects serving at the Altar, the Sacrament of the Lords supper, the Sacrament of the Altar, and may yea aught so to be phrased, That men ought to bow to Altars & Communion-tables, and to place & rail them in Altarwise at the east end of the Church, and come up to them, and receive when there is a Sacrament, and that Ministers must read their second service at them when there is none. That auricular confession to a Priest and absolution are very fitting and necessary; That the Lords day is no Sabbath; That it is lewish to call it or keep it as a Sabbath; That it is not of divine, but humane institution, not with in the morality of the 4. commandment; That two hours only of it, is to be sanctified, not the whole day; That Morises, dancing, sports and pastimes (yea labours of men's calling, not specially prohibited by 〈◊〉: ●●maine laws, even out of cases of necessity) are lawful on it. That men may fall totally & finally from Grace; That they have freewill, and may exactly fulfil the Law of God if they please themselves; That men are justified by works, yea by charity, and not by faith alone; That men are elected from the foresight of faith and works, and reprobated only out of the foresight of their sins; That there is a universal grace given to all men whereby they may be saved if they will; That Christ died alike for all men whatsoever; That preaching is an extraordinary thing 
* Welfare the Bishops who are true to their ground, for it is an extraordinary thing with them to proach.  only for extraordinary times, and belonging to none but extraordinary men; That one Sermon in a month is enough, and better than two a day; That reading is properly preaching; That Archbishops & Bishops Episcopal jurisdiction and degree above other Ministers is jure divino; That the Ministers know more than the Laypeople, the Bishops more than the Ministers, the Archbishops more than the Bishops; And therefore what ever the Ministers shall teach or prescribe the people, what ever the Bishops, the Ministers & people, what ever the Archbishops, the Bishops, Miinisters & people too, are bound to believe & obey without further question or dispute; That the Pope's Laws, Decrees, & Canon Laws are still in force, & our Church ought to be governed by them, & our Ecclesiastical Courts proceed lecally according to them; That Bishops have power to make & publish Articles, Canons, Injunctions, Oaths, Rites, Ceremonies, in their own names & rights, and to enforce both Ministers & people to obey them; That they may silence, suspend & excommunicate, (yea deprive & imprison) Ministers at their at their pleasure without any legal cause.  
That Bishops are not bound to preach so much, or so oft as other men, (though they have greater wages, and so should do more work.)  
That they may Lawfully and laudably neglect their spiritual functions, to manage temporal Offices and affairs, exercise both Swords at once, and rule both Church and State together.  
Now, that the Reader may be sure, what I here set down is true, let him peruse a Book entitled the Quench-Coale, and there he shall find all these Assertions affirmed, in an Epistle written unto the King.  
5. Whereas he saith, in a Church that is false in respect of outward Order, there may be taught many sound and seasonable truths.  
This I grant, for jesuites and other Heretics, deliver ofttimes many true Doctrines: And what of this, may we therefore Lawfully hear them? In no cause; For as one 
a Vsus est Nabuchodonosor Musicis Instrumentis in erection statuae, ut homines ad ejus honorem & venerationem excitaret. Pintus Comment. in Dan. cap. 3. pag. 195.  saith of the Musical Instruments which Nabuchadnezzar had in the plain of Dura, they were brought thither, that men thereby might be the sooner drawn to honour and worship the golden Image. So truly are the Truths taught in false Churches, a bewitching Music to lead people unto them, and to cause them to fall down before the Idols of the place, set up by Worldly Princes, against the express Commandment of jesus Christ.  
Again, howsover the Priests he pleads for, Preach sometime sound truths, notwithstanding otherwhile they speak vain and foolish things.  
Mr. Fox 
b Acts & Monum. pag. 1027  reports of one Hostius, who being in Gaunt, was told that a certain Friar there, used to preach good and sound Doctrine: But when he came to his Church, he heard him justify Transubstantion, and nothing else.  
And the like comes many times to pass, that men reputed rare Preachers, make whole Sermons in defence of gross Idolatry, and speak most reproachfully against the way and worship of God.  
This being so, I would know of the Pissed: if a man be present, when such blasphemous Positions are delivered, whether he offend. If he say, No, than it follows that a man may hear any one and any where, and his distinction between hearing this Priest, and not that, is (nihil adversum) impertinent and idle. If he say Yes, than it must follow (from his own grant) that no fal●e Minister is to be heard, unless a man know before hand, that he will not speak perverse things.   

SECTION. 4.  
THat the Church here pleaded for, is Antichristian and false: the Epist: doth acknowledge. Yet (saith he) that worshipping of God, which consisteth in hearing his Word, is warrantable for us to do there: And so much he undertakes to prove by this Argument.  
That Preaching which ordinarily begits men to the faith of Christ, may lawfully be heard.  
But the Preaching of many Ministers in the Church of England hath and doth ordinarily beget men to the faith of Christ.  
Therefore the Preaching of many Ministers in England may lawfully be heard.  
The first part of this syllogism is proved out of Rom. 10. Where the Apostle telling what is the ordinary way God used to beget men to the faith of Christ tells us, it comes by hearing of the word of God preached, if faith comes by hearing the Word of God preached (to wit, if that be the outward means) then there is no question but that a man may hear such preaching, and any man may blush for shame, that shall deny this: So that the major part of the Argument is clear:  
And for the Minor part they can not deny it, no more than a man at noon day can deny the sun to shine: for if any man make question whether faith comes ordinarily by the preaching and hearing in England, it is a great question whether they ever had faith or no: yet because some are so gross as to deny this, we will therefore: prove the contrary by this Argument: Ne puero gladium.  
That preaching and hearing which makes them which were altogether carnal, & so not capable of a church estate, to become saints & so fit for a church-estate: That preaching must needs beget men to the faith.  
But the preaching and hearing in England, made them that were unfit and carnal to become saints, and so fit members to the true Church, which were not so before.  
Therefore the preaching in England and hearing the same doth beget men to the faith. That the preaching and hearing in England hath done this: Witness the Church of Leyden and of Amstelredam.  
I cannot say of this man's Logic, as Aristotle 
a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  did of Theodorus his making of Epithets, it is his whole art. But rather if that be true, the Bird 
b E cantu dignoscitur avis.  is known by her singing, than the Publisher is very unskilful this way.  
Touching his syllogism, the same is many waves peccant, as I shall make it obvious and clear in the particulars following.  
1. To reason from the effect of things is unsound and unconcludeable by the Scriptures: This is, as if a man would say, the Midwives 
c Exo. 1, 9  which lied unto Pharaoh, did much good to the Israelites: Therefore they did well to Lie.  
It hath been (saith Cartwright 
d First repl. against D. Whitg. p. 79.  the manner always of wise and learned men to esteem of things by the causes and not by the event: And that especially in matters of Religion. D. Twist 
e The Doctrine of the Synod of Dort & Arles reduced to practice, p. 5. 6.  in his reply to the Arminians: calls it a strange course, because a thing is useful, therefore it is to be concluded that it is true: And a little after, they that do such things manifest hereby (saith he) that their case is desperate, and that they have very little or no ground for their opinion out of the Word of God.  
And this no doubt is most true, touching the Pissed: For were he able to prove the hearing in question lawful, he would not have published (as here he doth) so vain a reason: Or rather indeed that which hath no weaght of reason in it.  
Tertullian, 
f De prescript. advers. haerec.  Epiphanius, 
g Haer. 38, p. 124.  Irenaeus 
h L. 1. c. 16. and 17.  and other Ancients: make mention of a Sect, named cain's, which held that ludas did well to betray Christ: The reason they render for it, is the same which the Pissed: here brings for the hearing of false Ministers: To wit, the good effect 
* Quonian per ipsum parata est nobis crucis salus, & per hoc propositum supernorum revelatio. , that followed upon it. Thus he gratifies vile Heretics, in raking up their old ground, to build his new error upon.  
2. Seeing this practice of hearing, is condemned by the Scriptures: should it be granted (the which I deny) that ordinarily their preaching begits men to the faith: yet his proposition is unsound: For no evil may be done that good may come of it. 
k Rom. 2, 8  No, not the least to procure: he greatest good; that is a true saying: E malis nullum. May not I lend God a lie 
l job. 3, 7  for his glory: Much less do any other evil for any other whatsoever. As well the means (saith one 
m D. Slater Expos. on Rom. 3, v. 8, pag. 308. ) as the meaning must be good. 
i Hos. 4. 15, Mat. 7 Rev. 18 4 Son. 1, 7.  So writes Pareus, 
n In Rom. 3. v. 8, ad bonum finem, bona & legittima requirantur media.  Timpler, 
o Exerc. Philos. Sect. de act. h●man. nat. quest.  Lavater. 
p Comment. Iosh. c. 2, hom. 8, fol. 10.  Unto a good end, lawful and good ways and means are required. The reason is, (
q D. Willet. Comment. in Rom. 3, Quest. 12, p. 154. Par:  no sin is eligible; for whatsoever is eligible, and to be made chose off is good, but sin is no ways good, for than it should not be sin.  
Moreover, according to this man's Argument, men may commit Schisms and Heresies, for good comes of them; namely, a clearer Illustration of Orthodoxal verity: So they may lie, steal, commit adultery, etc. because of some following good effects: Which is the glory of God's wisdom in his mercy towards the elect, and justice upon the reprobates.  
But this I know he likes not: Notwithstanding his and it (pedes ad caput) for the matter of reasoning is all one: For thus he disputeth; If the effects of false Ministers prove good: Then may they lawfully be heard: But the first is true: Therefore the second.  
But stay, the consequence follows not: For non mox bonum est, ex quo bonum sequitur; saith a judicious Writer. 
r Comment, in 1 Cor. 11.  We may not strait way say the thing is good, because good followed of it.  
As for the good effect it is not pierce, or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: But ex accident, as Logicians 
s Dionis. Areopag. c. 4, de divin. nom: Fr. Pieolomen. in Doct. Ethica Rod. Goclen. count. Philos. Theol. par. 3, p. 85, Keckerm. Syst. log. l. 1, c. 13.  phrase it, By an accident. It cometh, saith Lyran, 
t In Rom. 6, ver. 1,  ex bonitate Dei, qui bona elicit ex malis. The like saith Theodoret. 
v Lib. de providenc. fol. 85. ) Deus malis ad bonum aliquod utitur. So Paez 
x Cantic. Moys. Text. 4. Anot. 1, p. 67.  peccata a Deo ordinantur in bonum.  
To conclude though in evils of punishment, we may choose a lesser to shun a greater. Yet in evils of fault election hath no place. For Divines 
y Dispute against Eng. Popish Ceremon. part. 2, ch. 1, pag. 10,  hold absolutely, that no thing which is evil in the use of it, may be done, either for prevention of evil, or for any good whatsoever, inter duo vel plura mala culpae saith Alsted 
z Theol, Cas. cap: 12, p: 210,  nullum est eligendum. And Pareus 
a In Rom: 3, 8.  the like: Nec ullum admittendum malum, ut even iat aliquod bonum, sive per se, sive per accidens.  
3. The main drift and scope of his reason, is not only untrue; But indeed very dangerous, to say no worse of it, as rending to restrain people from hearing the true Ministers of Christ. And that this is so, I prove it thus. That preaching which hath not, or doth not ordinarily begit men to the Faith of Christ, may not lawfully be heard. But the preaching of many true Ministers in their Congregations neither hath, nor doth ordinarily begit men to the Faith of Christ; Ergo, etc.  
If his Argument in the affirmative be true: Tam forma, quam materia; To say nothing of mood and figure. Then in the negative this is true also, according to that known rule, parium par est ratio: There is alike reason of things alike. So in the Philosopher: 
b Arist: Eth: c. ●  Contrariorum est eadem ratio. For instance, let it be in the affirmative thus; The godly please God; Must it not on the contrary follow: The ungodly displease God.  
To apply this: If this be a reason and ground, why some Ministers ought to be heard; Namely, because true conversion ordinarily followeth their Ministry. If this [I say] be a main cause that they should be heard; Then surely it must follow: Where such effects of ordinary conversion appear not; There must be no hearing. I say such Ministers are to be rejected, be they in their places never so painful and conscionable.  
This being so, mark the inference: Noah preached a 120 years, and yet there followed no ordinary conversion in the old World. The like may be said of Elias, Isaiah, jeremy, Ezechiel, and other prophets; Therefore it was not lawful to hear them.  
Hath not the Pissed: here shown himself an acute disputer; For to build Babel, he pulls down Bethel; To justify false Prophets, he condemns the true. In a word, whiles he seeks to open a door unto the Synagogues of Satan, he shutteth up the way & passage unto the Courts of the Lord of Host. Had he thought on the Wiseman's 
c P●o: 16, 20  saying, I think he would not have written so unaduisedly. He that handleth a matter wisely, shall find good.  
4. For the proof of his Major, there is not one sound sentence in it.  
For 1. touching the disdiapason or ill-favoured coupling of the matter. The Scripture he allegeth is Rom. 10, vers. 17. Faith cometh by hearing the Word of God. Now, what of this? His Argument hence is not proved, neither doth this place, Rom. 10. look that way. For example, suppose I should lay down this Position, the ordinary way to have right, between man and man, is to seek unto the lawful Magistrate: Would any one (unless he had Boeoticu●n ingenium) hence infer, that those who had right ordinarily done them by Usurpers and Tyrants, did well to take it.  
2. The hearing there mentioned, is not (as the Pissed: imagineth) a hearing promiscuously of all preachers, but it respects such only, as (legitime vocati) have a true outward calling to the Ministry. Thus Tertsllian 
d Lib. count. Mareien. , Danaeus 
e Comment. in 1. Tim. 5 22. , O●colampadius 
f In Esae 52 , Mayer 
g On jam. 3, Doct 3, p. 179. , Pareus 
h On the place. , Guiliaudus 
i Id. , Beza 
k Jd. , Piscator 
l In Rom. 10. Obser. in ver. 17. , and others understand the place; Therefore should his words be cast into a form, the very expression willbe confutation enough; For so they must run. If the Apostle, Rom. 10, say, that the ordinary means of men's conversion is by hearing the lawful Ministers of the Gospel; Then may unlawful Ministers be heard; If he can make it hang otherwise, he were best to do it, and save his credit what he can.  
Thirdly, Paul Rom. 10, speaketh of the ordinary way, which God hath ordained to begit faith; But the practice here stood for by the Publish. is quite another thing: Even a tempting of God; For as the Learned 
n Muscul. in Mat. 4, Tom. 1, p. 47. Moller. in Psa. 78, v. 18. p. 684. P. Mart. Loc. Com. Clas. 2, c. 4, p. 209. Polan. Syntag. l. 9, c. 8, P. 596.  well observe, God is tempted, when men, leaving the ordinary and appointed means, use their own devise; to obtain either spiritual or temporal good thereby.  
That this hearing is so, we have in part proved, and more will, if God permit.  
Now, for his Minor. 1. All Sects do boast of the effects of their Ministry in converting men unto Christianity. Bellarmine 
o De not. Eccles. lib. 4, c. 12  tells us, that Iew●s Gentles, and Turks too, are converted in multitudes by their Church. Another 
p Masspriests supplication to the King, Sect. 31.  lays down the particulars, viz. Bessites, Dacians, Geteses, Scythians, Morins, Nervians, Armenians, Huns, Burgunnians, Scots, French Pictes, Bavartans, and well nigh an hundred other Nations are there reckoned up. The Arrians in old time said 
q Freculphus in Chronico Tom. 2, l. 4, c. 20.  no less: By their Ministers the Goths and others, were turned to the saith from Paganism. But this is not proved or true, because they say so.  
2. If it were needful, I could bring their own testimony against him. For (to use Mr. Robinson's 
r Justificat. Separ. p. 51.  words) there is nothing more common both in the Sermons and Writings of the forewarder sort, than their complaints how little good their preaching hath done. For Example, mark what some Ministers of good note among them do affirm.  
This I dare warrant (saith Mr. Gifford 
s Country Divinity, fol. 48. ) if it be not so let me lose both my ears, that go through the Parishes of these grave and learned Divines, and unless such as run to such their victuals otherwhere, ye shall not find five among five score, which are able to understand the necessary grounds and principles of religion. Another 
t Catholic Conference, p. 164.  saith more: Were it not for the good Làwes of our Kingdom, which do constrain and compel men to make outward profession, the greater number of our people of all sorts in this Island, would makè none at all. Mr. Nichols 
v P. 218.  in his Plea of the innocent, reports, that conferring with the particular persons in his Parish (after he had preached some good space among them) about the means of salvation, of 400 Communicants be scarce found one, but that thought and professed a man might be saved by his own welldoing, and that he trusted he did so live, that by God's grace he should obtain everlasting life, by serving God and good Prayers.  
This being so, what credit is to be given to the Pist: Minor. Seeing the men he speaks for, give in their evidence and witness against him.  
3. Howsoever many living in jdola●rous places are converted; yet how knows he, that the preaching in question doth it. For private men & wemon, may & do turn their neighbours from evil, & that ordinarily: sometime by teaching, & witnessing the truth, otherwhile by reading, talking, conferring of the Scripture, informing their Children and family in the faith. And this the Scripture 
x Levit. k. 27, 28, Prov. 31. 26, Ma●. 3, 16, Mat. 18, 15, jam. 5, 19, 20, 1 Cor. 14, 24, Act. 8, 4, 26, 1 Cor. 7. 16, Ephes. 64, Deu. 6, 7.  shows, and the Treatiser 
y justif. Sep. p. 457,  acknowledgeth; D. Fulke 
z In Rom. 10, ver. 15,  in his answer to the Rhemists, showeth out of Ruffinus; how diverse great Nations have been converted by men and women out of office: As a great Nation of the Indians, by Aedesius & Frumentius; The Country of Iberians by a captive woman.  
And here by the way, this may serve to his demand: Let them tell us where they have received their faith? We answer, the wind bloweth where it listoth. Sure we are, faith we had, when we left our unsanctified standings there; But if any should hence affirm, that we had it by hearing false Ministers, he should show folly and rashness. Secret things 
a Deu. 29, 29.  belong to the Lord; Quae supra nos nihil ad nos. Augustine 
b Melius est dubitare de occultis, quam litagare de incertis Lib, 8, c. 5. de Trinit.  adviseth us well: It is better to doubt of secret things, then to strive for uncertainè things.  
If the Pissed: had minded this, I think he would not have written so peremptory in a matter unknown.  
4. Where reads he in▪ Gods Book, that men are named visible saints, and judged first matter for Church estate, they being in the mean while actually members of false Churches, and practise daily gross idolatry.  
I think with the Treatiser 
c justific. Separ. pag. 269. , true visible Christians, have Christ for their King, visibly or in outward appearance, & so far forth as men can judge: (For by visible, we mean that which may be seen of men, opposed to invisible which only God seethe,) for Christ is not divided, but look to whom he is a Priest to save them, and a Prophet to teach them, to the same persons he is also a King to reign over them.  
That Christ then should be said to be a King, unto any people continuing members of Antichrists Kingdom: Or that such aught to be deemed visible saints, and first matter for a true Church, which live under a false Ministry, Worship; and Government. For my part, as yet I cannot see reason for it; But think the word is against it. 
* Rev. 14, 45, Ephes. 2, 20. Deu. 33, 3 Esa. 4, 34, Rom. 1, 7. 1 Cor. 1, 2 Philip. 1. 1   
If a man should give up his name unto a Usurper, take his part, obey his precepts, join with him in rebellion and treason? May he for all this, be counted (and that justly) a visible good subject unto his King. To me it is fide majus.  
For his wordy and windy insultation; That any man may blush for shame that shall deny this; I pass it by, wishing him hereafter to lay things down according to allegata probata; Let the Scripture speak 
d Sanctis Scripturis non loquentibus quis loquitur; Ambr. de vocat. Gent. l, 2, c. 3, Tom. 2.  in the points between us: For without it, nothing is to be affirmed 
e Omne quod loquimur debemus affamare de Scripturis sanctis. Hierom. in Ps. 98 Tom. 8. : and beyond it, nothing to be concluded 
f Nihil ultra quam sacris literis proditum est definiendum. Erasm. in Hiliar. : God's word alone is certain, other proofs uncertain and false, if they descent from it. 
g Solum Dei verbum certum: caetera falsa si dissentiant. Ferus in Epist. ad Roma. c. 3. p. 303.   
5. Howsoever it is true (as Polanus 
h Comment. in Ezech. cap. 16, pag. 365. , Deering 
i 23. Lecture on Epistle to the Hebr. , Whitaker 
k Rom. Pont. Cont. 4 Quaest. 5, pag. 681. , and others say) in a false Church by the preaching there, some sometimes are brought to the faith: yet (with these) I deny, that this is an ordinary work, but rather extraordinary; The reason is, because their hearers generally by their Doctrines, are kept in blindness, idolatry, wilworship, etc. So that they fit not members to true Churches, but unfit them rather; For no sooner see they a man to set his face that way, but they seek immediately, to keep him from it (nolens volens) either by flattery, persecution or the like.  
Lastly, if there be any weaght of reason in his words, they make then against himself, and quite overthrow his own cause. And thus I prove it: No man can lawfully hear false Ministers, unless he know before hand that they have and do ordinarily begit men to the faith: But such foreknowledge is not to be had: Ergo, etc.  
The proposition is certain by his own grant; For the main ground whereon the whole weaght of his matter relieth, is this, viz: that some Antichristian Ministers ought to be heard, because they have and do ordinarily begit men to the Faith: Now, this must needs be understood of that which is visible, for otherwise (n●que Coelum neque terram attingit) he speaks idly and from the point.  
The Assumption cannot possibly be denied, except men willbe senseless; For who can say upon certain knowledge, that any false Minister in the world, hath and doth ordinarily begit men to the faith. Thus the man is snared in his own words; And may say with the Poet: Heu patior telis vulnera facta meis.  
Before I end this point, I think i● good to present here unto the Readers view, one observation or two, from the Pissed: Argument.  
1. Howsoever he saith but little, yet that which he saith is so abstruse, dark, full of evasions and starting holes, as a man cannot tell what to make of it. He sends us to the effect of preaching: But to what end is this? What light? What information can a man take hence: considering that as God is the Author of true faith, so the time, instruments, means, etc. by which he exhibiteth it unto man, is known only to himself, and not to others of others.  
Indeed here we may observe a clear difference between truth & falsehood; Between Christ's institutions, and man's inventions. Whatsoever God will have us to do, or not do, he lays down the same openly, precisely, manifestly: All the words 
l Pro. 8. 9  of his mouth are plain unto him that understandeth. The spirit speaketh expressly: 
m 1. Tim. 4, 1.  Non obscurè, & in voluiè: Sed manifestè, praecriptè, praecise, saith Guilia●dus. 
n Comment. on good the place.  Whereunto accordeth Augustine: 
o Divinitus visum est, ut sacra Oracula simplici & pershicuo exararentur dictionu ●enere, ne praetendere quisquam possit nihil a se, in illis intelligs Ad vonsianum  It was thought good unto Almighty God, that the Scriptures should be penned in a simple and plain kind of speech, lest any man should pretend, that he could understand nothing in them. Another 
p Sam: Bachiler Serm. Camp Royal, p. 36.  God's Oracles are plain, and labour with no ambiguities, like those of Pyrrhus, and Croesus, whereof no certain meaning could be gathered.  
That the truth is simple and plain, Ethnics by the light of nature, could sufficiently see into such things. One of them touching this matter, saith thus: 
q Veritatis sermo est simplex & apertus nec varijs indiget explicationibus & ambagibus; sed iniusta causa cum per se sit morbida, necessario indiget astutis pharmacis. Euripid.  The truth is simple and plain, and needeth is not variety of windlaces and fe●chings of matter about the bush: But an evil cause in that it is sick and diseased, hath need to have a cunning plaster set unto it. Another 
r Aristo.  of them hath these words: That phrase and form of speaking hath truth in it, which is common and used of all, having in it nothing craftily devised, neither cloaking some other thing than is professed.  
Contrariwise when Satan speaketh by his instruments, he speaketh so ambiguously and clokedly, as fitly, that of Apollo's Oracle may be applied to it: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 
* Quod ambiguis ambagibus responsa consulentibus daret.  For one knows not how to take it, nor which way to apply it. Pertinently to this purpose writes Sibelius 
s Desacrific. Abra. p. 56, 57 : Human Doctrines are various and ambiguous, wrapped and foalded with abstruse labrynths of opinions, whereby people's minds are so troubled and tired, that they cannot plainly open themselves, neither have any quietness, or come to their desired end. But the Doctrine of God is right, that is, plain and perspicuous, not wrapped with un-even and crooked suttleries and delusions of Sophistry, neither leads us into bypaths and errors; but bringeth peace to the conscience, ad removeth àll scruples and doubts: So he.  
Sadeel 
t Opera Theol Pref. de Meth. Theol. disput. Error. 3. p. 8.  writing of deceivers, & the sundry ways they use to beguile the simple: Notes them to be men affecting dark sayings, and seeking by mists and fogs of strange & unfamiliar arguments, to blind their spiritual eyes, and puzzle their understandings. And this is no late devise; For Augustine in his Book of Heresies maketh mention of the Heretics Marcitae, so named of one Marcus. And touching them, thus I find it written: 
v Obscurissime & quibusdam verborum tanquam misteriorum in volueris utentes loquebantur de Deo, ut stuperent audientes homines, potius quam intelligerent.  They did speak darkly, and used such a wrapping kind of words, that the hearers were rather astonished with the strangeness of the words, then edified with any understanding they had of the meaning thereof.  
The thing being thus, the Reader hence (as by a light) may greedy help himself to discern, on whose side the truth is, in the difference between us. Our dispute is about Church-hearing: We say, that Christians are bound to perform this service unto God, in true constituted Churches; There (we say) must men hear the whole Counsel of God, taught unto them, either by lawful Ministers, or by Brethren out of office; For confirmation hereof, we can produce many divine precepts; Also the Example and practice of our forefathers from the first age of the word hitherto. Besides, this is a Position, so certain and clear, as it is holden in all Schools, written continually in Books, preached every day in Sermons, taught in all Churches: So that (haec Momo ipsi satisfaciant) no body can speak against it. 
Danaeus in August. haer.   
Our Opposites howbeit they grant us this, yet affirm that in false Churches Antichristian Ministers may be heard also: 
* Pag. 3.  And this is not only (they say) lawful, but in some cases necessary for all, of all Sects and sorts of Christians, having opportunity and occasion of so doing.  
This indeed they say? But how prove they it to be true? Not by any law of God taken out of the old or new Testament: For that they cannot do; Not by any holy man's Example, for they know there is none extant? Not by any sound consequence rightly drawn from the Scripture, for (quid si Caelum ruat 
x Teren. in Heautont. ) that is impossible. What do they then? as jeremy 
y jer. 2, 13.  saith, they forsake the fountain of living waters, and hue them out cisterns, broken cèsternes that can hold no waters.  
They devise certain obstruse, dark and ambiguous phrases and distinctions: As of natural hearing in a Church, and of a hearing wherein there is Communion: Of some Churches, false in respect of order: Others in respect of faith and order: of hearing false Ministers, not (quatenus) as they are false Ministers, or their Ministers, but as men gyfeed and the Bishop's Ministers: of certain effects which follows men's teaching, etc.  
Thus their proofs are only their bare and bold affirmation: For leaving the Scriptures, they use Paralogismes, fond cavils, and false arguments. The which course not only shows an i'll case, but also manifesteth, that the embracers thereof, are either ignorant people who cannot judge of things that differ, or some, that have some men's persons in admiration: Or such as are unwilling to suffer affliction with the people of God.  
I could here mention some other devises in this kind; as an implicit Church-covenant. A true outward calling which some have, to the Ministry from their Congregation, but secret and unknown either to the Minister or the people.  
But I will at this time abstain from such by-controversies, and the rather because I shall have a first occasion to speak hereafter of it; Namely, when the Undertakers have finished their answer to my former Book, and Mr. Davenport published his many things that he hath to say against it. For so much he insinuateth in his Treatise between him and Mr. Pagit. 
* Pag. 282 283.   
2. Observe again, to what gross absurdities his argument leadeth; For unless it be only wind and vanity, these sweet collections must needs follow. 1. No Minister coming newly to his place, is to be heard. 2. Before any are, inquiry must be made, whether they ordinarily begit men to the faith. 3. If after trial it be found, that they do not so, than they must not be heard what true Doctrines soever they teach.  
Is not this workmanlike done? (say Reader) hath not the Pist: (omne tulit punctum) made the way clear now, for the hearing of false Ministers? Truly I think, except a man be partial in the point: And of his mind who said: 
z Non persuade bis e●i imsi persuaseris.  Though you do convince me, yet I will not be convinced; He must acknowledge, that he hath made it doubt fuller than ever it was, and such as were not well satisfied formerly in the thing, have enough here from his own pen, to put them quite and wholly off.   

SECTION. 5.  
THe Pissed: having done with his Logic: comes in the next place to charge his Opposites, with contradiction, absurdity, and speaking little better than Blasphemy. A great fault, if true; But how doth he prove it? They say, it is not the Word of God, as it is preached in Antichristian Assemblies.  
Answ. The Publish: had done well, if he had published out assertion (de manu in manum,) truly and faithfully. But seeing he hath not done so, I will here lay it down; Thus it is: The word preached by false Ministers, is not that word unto which God hath promised a blèssing of increase. Or it is not the ordinary way and means which the Scriptures speaks of, to begit men to the faith. Had he so alleged it, he might well have held his tongue, and not talk so vainly as he doth, of God's Word, if Mr. Can shall preach it; And none of God's Word, if another do preach the same. For our difference is not about the Word simply, as it stands in syllables and letters; But rather in respects the time and place preached in, and the persons preached by and to; That is, as the one being an ordinance of Christ, the other of Antichrist; As the one (that is the word preached in a lawful office) being like Mount Gerizim under the blessing; The other like Mount Ebol under the curse.  
I will express this paticular more fully in this manner, put the case, a Company of Rebels going apart, should take with them the Statute-booke of the Realm, and set up among them, one or more to administer civil justice according the contents thereo●, now though no man can deny but this is the King's Law which they have, yet as they administer it, so it is not his Law, or more plainly, that is not his Law, which they administer, neither may any good subject in such a case receive any administration at their hands.  
The holy Vessels in Babylon were the Lords still, yet the Israelites there, might not make any religious use of them; So in spiritual Babylon, the Bible there is God's Book; Nevertheless the Godly are forbidden to go thither, to hear it, either read or taught to them.  
We find under the Law a difference between the Creatures, some are said to be clean, others not; But how comes this? Not of themselves, for so nothing is evil or unclean; (for all God's Works were created good; 
a Gen. 1. ult.  But in respect of the use forbidden: So thouch God's Word preached, in one respect it is pure, in another not? How ●o? Not but the Word in itself is still good and true. The difference is, because of God's Commandment, he having as flatly forbidden the use of it (taught or heard) in false Churches, as he did some beasts under the Law. 
b I would have the Pist: to tell me, what contradiction, absurdity, or blasphemy it is to say: though Circumcision in itself were of God: yet as it was used in the false Church under the Kings of Israel: It was none of God's ordinance; If was God's ordinance, if a true Minister in God's Church administered it; But if a Priest of jeroboams making did administer the same, It was none of God's Ordinance.   
I wish therefore the Reader, to note in what respect we place our difference, between the Word preached in a true Church and in a false Church; We say in the one (that is in the true Church) it is clean. In the other, we say it is not: Nevertheless, if it be considered, as God is the author of the whole Scripture; And as it contains words and sentences, so we say, it is all clean and good; The reason then, why we say their preaching is unclean, is in the same respect, that some creatures were unclean under the Law; Namely, in respect of the use forbidden.  
As the tree of knowledge of good and evil, hurt not of itself, I mean the fruit, but the transgression after the commandment, the thing in itself good, but the use forbidden; So God's Word in false Churches (as that fruit) in itself is good, but the use there prohibited.  
And because the Publish: takes it so ill, that any difference should be put between the same word preached in Bethel and Babylon. I will (to appease him) add one word more. As a false and forged Constitution, makes a Church a real and substantial Idol; So all that comes from it, is touched with the Idolatry of that Constitution. This is a ruled opinion of many Divines, the State makes all the public actions to be formally good or evil; For as the Temple 
c Matt. 23, 17, 19  sanctifieth the gold, the Altar the offerings; So the ordinances of the Church under the Gospel, are sanctified to us; That is (as Bucer 
d In Mat, 23, v. 17.  truly speaketh) in the use of them made lawful to us, in that they have their Rise, from a true and right Power.  
Seeing then the Church in Question, wants a right Constitution, it must follow, that all spiritual actions done in it, (whether prayer, preaching Sacraments, Censures) as they are there done, are none of God's ordinances; though true it is, in themselves they are of God. Yet I say, as the Word is there preached, the Sacraments there administered, etc. So they are not his; I say not his, though in outward performances they are practised, as in true Churches. But of this more in another place. 
e In defence of Object. 15.   
Another thing for which he blames his Opposites, is, their misapplying the Example of Nadab and Abihu; I will here set down their words, as he reports them, and his answer thereunto.  
It was true incense which Nadab and Abihu took, to offer up to the Lord, but because they took strange fire; and not the fire which was from the Altar, as the Lord had appointed, therefore the Lord sent a fire to destroy them: So say they, it is the true Word of God, which is preached in England, but because they preach the same by an unlawful office, therefore the Lord abhors it: A stranger collection I think can hardly be heard, for here strange fire is opposed to an unlawful outward calling; which nothing can be more absurd, for Nadab and Abihu had a true outward calling to Offer, they were the sons of Aaron (saith the text) therefore if any thing hence might be concluded, in just proportion, it must be to the Doctrine taught, and not in the least to the calling: So that we may from thence gather thus much, that if a Minister in regard of his outward calling true: shall teach any thing that is not from the Lord, they are to expect God's judgement for the same, and more cannot hence be collected.  
What Origen 
f Non est periculum ut eis subvertuntum ullus fidelium, lib. 1 cont. Cells.  said of Celsus works, may fitly be applied to this man's writings: There is no danger, lest any faithful man should be subverted by them; For he talketh and not reasoneth.  
To answer: But are you in earnest, speak out aloud? Can no more be concluded? What; will a little more be (aliena are) beyond the mark; So you say; But a stranger collection I think can hardly be heard; 
Dicclare Teren. in And.  For I dare say, you are alone 
✴ Solus sapit.  here in your opinion; Learned men generally give a more●large exposition of the place.  
The scope of that text, we are taught by an English Bishop, Babington, in his Notes on that place: We may hence learn and settle in our hearts, with what severity the Lord challengeth and defendeth his authority, in laying down the way and manner of his worship, not lea●ing it to any creature to meddle with, but according to praescription and appointment from him. Content he is, that men shall make Laws for humane matters, etc. But for his divine worship, he will prascribe it himself, and what he appointeth, that must be done, and that only, or else Nadah and Abihu their punishment expected, that is, God's wrath expected in such manner as he shall please.  
And this he learned of Calvin 
g Alium ignom sacris adhiberi vetuit Deus, ut adventities omnes ritus excluderet, ac doceret, se detestari quic quid aliunde profectum erat. discamus ergo sic attendere ad Dei mandatum ne eius cultum ullis extraneis Commentin vitiemus.  who upon the Place saith: God forbade other Fire, etc. to be used, that he might exclude all inventious rites, and teach that he detested whatsoever was come from elsewhere. Let us therefore learn so to attend to the Commandment of God, that we defile not his worship with any far fetched devises.  
junius 
h Peccatum in eo fuisse, quoth in ratione divini cultus non attenderint ad mandatum Dei, etc. Anal, in loc.  mentioning their sin, saith: It was in that they kept not God's Commandment in the matter of his worship. And a little after: They should not have added of their own any thing thereto.  
Piscator 
i Cultum Dei exten●●um praecise ex Dei praescriptum exercendum esse: itaque non habet hic locum bena hominum intentio.  from the place, raiseth this observation: The outward worship of God must be strictly done according to his Commandment: A good intention therefore hath here no place.  
Mr. Attorsall also in his Commentary upon Numb. 3. 4. doth largely declare out of this Example, how God disliketh and disclameth men's devises in his service, as trash, trumpery, and mere dotage. So Beda, Bruno, Brentius. Pelargus, Chytraeus, Sarcerius, S●rigelius, Aretius, Borrhaeus, and other interpret the place.  
And whereas he applieth it to false Doctrine taught by one that hath his outward calling true. He may say in the words of that boasting City: k I am, and there is none besides me; For this is his own devise, and it must live and die with them.  
The place being thus understood; Let us now see, if the same may not be (ab uno de grammate) fithe applied against this practice of Hearing. From the place than I do thus reason:  
All will worship and superstition is sin.  
To hear Antichristian Ministers in their unlawful assemblies is superstition and will-worship.  
Therefore it is sin to do it.  
The first Proposition is grounded upon the forementioned example: Levit. 10. 1. 2. and the same is without exception. The second Proposition is thus proved.  
1. 
Lib. 1. vit. ex: cult: oppose. Col. 501. 502.  From the nature of superstition, which is, as Zanchy describes it a taking into the worship of God more than he requires in his worship.  
Hence superstition (as some derive the word) is that which is done supra statutum; And in this respect the hearing in question, is superstition, as being used in God's worship, upon no other ground but man's devise.  
2. According to the Schoolmen, 
m Vel cui non debet, vel non e● modo quo debet.  that is Superstition, when divine worship is not exhibited, either to the person it should be, or not in the way and manner as it ought. And this is held to be a sound truth by all Orthodoxal Writers.  
Now, 
Aquin. 2. 20. q. 92. Art. 1.  howsoever the Hearers of False Ministers do exhibit worship to God, yet it is not in the manner and way that they should worship him: And this is clear by the Treatisers own confession; For he confesseth that the hearing which he pleads for, 
n Pag. 37  is no particular ordinance left by Christ. Again, he saith: It were to be wished, that no Church Ministry were to be found which is not approvable by the Word of God, notwithstanding any good act performed by them that possess it.  
If I am not deceived, in these words he destroys what he built before: Is this hearing no ordinance left us by Christ? Is the controverted Ministry so evil a thing, as that every good Christian is to pray for its rooting up? How then can it be both lawful and in cases necessary for all Sects and sorts of people to partake with it. If this be not (ex diametro) cross work, and gross contradiction, I know not what is.  
3. This hearing cannot be free of superstition, in regard men are present at false worship; The which presence (as the Learned write 
o Praesentia est communicatio quaedam in cultu, Slater. Epist. 1. ad Corinth. c. 10.)  is a certain communion therewith.  
4. It is great superstition to approve, countenance, or give honour to any of the ways of Antichrist. They that are sincere Christians (saith 
p in Censura cap. 9 fol. 471.  Bucer) cannot abide any thing that is his. The least show (saith Vigandus 
q Syneps. Antichrist ) to please either him or his followers, is will worship. Of this judgement were junius 
r In Hos. 2. 16. , Musculus 
s Loc. come. de ●radit. p. 421. 422. , Beza 
t Tract. theol. vol. 3. pa. 210. , Mollerus 
u In Ps. 16 , Zepperus 
x de Polit. p. 72. , Sadeel 
y Contr. Monachos p. 70. , and others.  
Now, me thinks there should not be a man so void of reason, as to say, that a Minister of Antichrist, as he is preaching by virtue of his Master's commission, and under his seal and authority, may even then be heard, and yet no honour, no approbation, no countenance, nor any show thereof, be given unto Antichrist therein.  
5. It is vicious and superstitious to symbolize with idolaters; The Scriptures 
* Levit. 18, 3. Deu. 12. 30. Exo. 23. 24. 2 Chro. 13 9 Levit. 19 27. 28  forbid it. And the Saints in all ages have carefully shunned it, as we shall show in another place. But this Hearing is no other; For idolaters in this, are imitated in sundry acts of their idolatry; In so much as Papists and Atheists too, may well twitt our balters in the words of the Samaritane woman, how is it that thou being a Christian joinest thyself to us Antichristians? Is it not strange that thou who professest our Church to be false, our Ministry unlawful, our Church-government Popish, shouldest yet come to us, and partake in our administrations? Surely this argueth, that either thou understandest not the practice, which thy grounds lead thee too, or else for some by respect; refusest to walk accordingly to them.  
6. Superstition is committed, when more estimation is had of a thing, more dignity and excellency placed in it, and more regard had to it, than God alloweth or can stand with his will revealed in his Word; And so much Zanchy 
a Lib. 1. de vit. ext. cult. oppos. col. 504. 505.  proves by sundry instances; In this regard also, hearing false Ministers, is superstitious, because that thing is honoured and embraced, which we find not in the Scripture to be lawful: and thus an idol is set up, tanquam Deus ex parte, though not ut Deus simpliciter.  
Thus I have answered the Prefacer: Now, how he will take it, I know not. Cotis, a Thracian King, breaking some vessels to pieces, was asked a reason; He answered, that he might not be moved to anger at another for doing of it. Had the Epist: been so wise, as to have torn his writing himself, and so not published it, he would not (as it may be he now will) have been angry at another for laying open the weakness and vanity of it.    

AN Answer unto the Treatise.  

SECT. 1.  
WHen Satan cannot draw men to one extremity, he seeks to bring them unto another. The truth of this, the Holy Scriptures 
a 1 Cor. 5. 11. compare with 2 Cor. 2. 6, 7.  not only show, but sundry examples also prove it in this present age.  
It is true (as the Treatiser saith) there are many who affecting alienation from others, 
Numb. 14 35, 45.  make their differences as great, and their adverse opinion or practice as odious as they can. 
Deut. 1, 42. 44.  A moat shallbe a beam with them, a knatt, a Camel. And hence through want of a take heed, they become rejecters of persons and things which they ought not.  
Again, on the other hand, there are not a few, who desiring liberty, and large walking, and to have the credit and love of all men, use all their wit, skill, & power, to have great things (I mean evils and sins) esteemed small things: And what is small, that nothing. That so they may find a door of entry, to accord and agree with others in unlawful practices.  
Here therefore is the wisdom of the Saints, namely, that they shun both these two extremities. Medium tenuere beati. And for my part of this later number, I shall, while I live, profess myself (by God's grace) be to both a Companion & guide: That is, not at any hand to condemn what is to be justified, neither to approve that thing which ought to be condemned.  
There are two reasons laid down by the Treatiser, wherefore he penned this discourse. 1. For the freeing of his own conscience. 2. The information of other men's.  
Answ. 1. I dare not think, but the Treatiser when he fell first upon this point of Hearing, spoke as he thought of it, and did nothing but what his mind gave him to be right and good: But this makes not the thing therefore justifiable; For as Martyr saith: 
b Lex Dei is regula conscientiae. Loc. Comm. Class. 2. cap. 1. pag. 165.  The Rule of our Conscience must be the Law of God. gideon's Ephod was erected with a well meaning mind, but it became a snare, 
c ●udg. 8. 27.  and a scandal, and an occasion of great idolatry, and the overthrow and ruin of his whole family. What hath this hearing been? but a snare in Israel, an occasion whereby many people have turned aside from the streaght ways of the Lord.  
2. I do not see what satisfaction any man can have from his writing: Seeing he hath not alleged any one Sentence of Scripture to prove the point in question lawful. Omne quod loquimur, debemus affirmare de Scripture is Sanctis: saith Hierom in Psal. 98. Tom. 8. But this he hath not done, only he tells us, that Hearing is a natural action: Hearing is no Communion, etc. Now, where this so (which is not in the sense he intendeth) yet it serves not his turn in the least.  
If a Thief, to clear himself, should say, that he hath not stolen such particulars: Yet if he have done other things, he is a Thief notwithstanding. So in this case, thought to hear false Ministers, be not a sin in such a respect: Yet if it be in some other, the action is neither Lawful nor necessary.  
And here by the way, let me speak a word to you, whose warrant for your going unto unlawful Assemblies, is only the Treatisers writing: This I do affirm and will make good against all gainsayers, that if the thing could be justified, yet for his part he hath not proved it so, but hath left the point itself wholly untouched, and taken up a by-thing.  
Therefore what Alcibiades said of the Athenians, I may well apply to you, You take things from other men, not by trial, but by trust, and do them rather of affection and will, than out of any sure knowledge you have of the truth of them.  
That the Treatiser made account to meet with Opposites, I marvel not: Only I marvel, seeing he foresaw so much, that he had not done his work to some better purpose.  
The first sort of Opposites are such who truly desire, 
Treat:  and carefully endeavour to have their whole course both in Religion, and otherwise, framed by the holy and right Rule of God's Word.  
Answ. These cannot choose but be his Opposites, and that for 3. reasons specially.  
1. Because of his lightness and inconstancy in the matters of God: and for that he seeks to build again the thing which he had before destroyed. What he hath said against this Hearing, the World is not ignorant of; and therefore here is a fit place to lay down his own words, & to apply them to himself: He sucks up his former breath; and eats the words he had formerly uttered, as though he had either forgotten what he wrote before, or cared not how he crossed himself, so he might oppose us. 
* justificat. of Separ. p. 276.   
2. Because the drift and scope of his writing, thwarteth the truth, and leadeth unto sin against the Lord.  
3. Causeth troubles in the Churches of God, and hinders many from receiving the love of the truth.  
But did the Treatiser think, that the closest walkers with God, would oppose him in this thing; Then it must needs follow, he made account, that the losest people for judgement & practice would be the embracers of it.  
A second sort is of them, 
Treat:  whose tender and scrupulous conscience makes them fearful & jealous of everything that hath in it the least appearance on show of evil, etc.  
Answ. He that will not fall into a deep pit, will not come very near to it in his travel.  
God's people (saith Theodoret 
e Comment. in Thes. 5, 22. ) must be so abhorrent from evil, both in Doctrine and manners, that the show of both aught to be avoided. And thus the Scriptures 
f 1 Thes. 5, 22. jam. 1, 27. jud. 23. Rev. 16, 18.  press, and the Saints 
g Dan. 1, 8 Rev. 3, 4. Luke 1, 5.  have practised.  
For his distinction between things only naturally good in their kinds and use, and others morally, etc. I see nothing in it, wherefore he should desire the reader to take knowledge of it. For as for riches, credit of the World, and outward peace, here instanced, as they are good things in themselves, so they may be desired, and in a right way and course Lawfully sought after.  
For the other, namely, Hearing of the Word, obedience to the Magistrate, etc. In these things too, we must keep ourselves within the limits and bounds, which God hath set us. For his phrase of streaning and going as near the Wind as may be, I hope he meant no streaning of a good conscience; If he did not, than his counsel is of no use at all: except it could be proved, that the Lord requires his people to hear in the way and manner he pleads for: a work (ab Asino lanam) not possibly to be done.  
As there are some scrupulous in things amiss touching outward Ordinances, and yet faulty otherways: So I believe there are many not scrupulous in things amiss touching outward ordinances, and yet in their course of life, base and scandalous enough.  
But what of this, must not God's House and Ordinances be dear to our souls, because some men's conversation is not according to their profession? God forbidden. For in the holiest Society upon Earth, it is possible that there should be wicked persons. When there was but 4: in the World, one was a Kaan: when 8. only in the Ark, one was a Cham: Among the 12. one a judas. The purest Wheat hath some chaff with it; The fairest garden some weeds in it; Therefore let no man forbear to practise any known truth for other men's lewd lives; only let them be careful to do well themselves: Mourn for such as do otherwise, and seek by all due and lawful means their Amendment. And this is the burden, and no other, which the Lord lays upon them.  
The last sort he divides into 5 ranks; at which he either girds, or right-out chargeth, with Hypocrisy, partiality, pride, ignorance, mallace, and the like.  
It is said of Tamberlane 
* Richard Knowles in the life of Baiazee  that he raised war against Bajazet the fourth King of the Turks, because he refused to receive certain strange Garments, which he sent unto him. I believe, had these men, embraced the Treatisers opinion in this point of Hearing, they should not have heard him speak so bitterly against them. But to the particulars.  
Some are carried with so excessive admiration of some former guides in their course, 
Treat.  as they think is half Heresy to call into question any of their determinations, or practices.  
Answ. Howsoever we must live by our own faith; notwithstanding we are not lightly to esteem of the determinations and practices of our guides, specially when we know they are no reeds; but men stable and unchangeable in the truth. He is a foolish traveller that will leave the way which he hath long kept, unless he be sure, he is out. There is (as Polanus 
h Comment. in Ezech. cap. 20. pag. 487.  saith) a laudable imitation of Elders. That is, so fare to follow them, as they are followers of Christ.  
2. I know none more faulty this way, than such as have learned of him to hear unlawful Ministers: For were not these men superstitiously addicted to his new devise, they would beware, how to reject (as they do) the unanimous judgement and practice of all Learned Men and true Churches, and follow the blind trodd of his single opinion.  
Such as lay down rules to find out the truth by, writ thus: What the Fathers 
i Quidquid omnes pariter uno codemque consensu, etc. Vincent: Lirenens. count. prophanos haeret. c. 4.  all with one consent have held and written, is a necessary token to know the truth by.  
Again, 
k D. Field of the church, l. 3. c. 43, p. 175  Whatsoever hath been holden at all times, and in all places, by all Christians, that hath not been noted for novelty, singularity and division is to be received as the undoubted truth of God.  
If these Assertions be true, the Treatisers than is untrue. For not only are all old Writers against it, but the most Learned of later times: Yea (and let it be minded) all Sects and sorts of people, professing Christianity, abhor it; I except only Familists: For they and he (●●dem in lud● docti,) are for the pleading and practice here much alike.  
Some again are much addicted to themselves as the former to others: 
Treat:  Conceiving in effect, though they will not profess it, the same of their Heads which the Papists do of their Head the Pope, that they cannot err or be deceived. And this specially in such matters us for which they have suffered trouble and affliction formerly.  
Answ. 1. We are all more ready to blame faults in others, then to see our own and amend them. Had not the Treatiser thought to well of himself, I doubt whether he would so lightly have singled himself out, and become (as it were) every man's opposite, Humble minds, are afraid to meddle with novelties: but such as seek humane praise, imagine they cannot enough be observed, unless out of the dreggs of Sophistry, they raise some strange quiddities, whereby to cross truths generally received.  
2. That any man should love and like a thing, because it leads to persecution; That I cannot think; But this I think: There are some which do profess & practise many things (and namely this of Hearing) on no better ground or reason but hereby, to keep themselves out of troubles.  
There is also a third sort who bend their force rather to the weakening of other men in their courses, 
Treat:  then to the building up of themselves in their own; half imagining that they draw near enough to God, if they can withdraw enough from other men.  
Answ. I cannot devise for what end the Treat. 
* Aliquid latet quod non patet.  should seek thus to discover other men's nakedness, except it be, he thought that the more vile and contemptible he made his Opposites appear in the Readers eye, the easier he would be won, to embrace this his opinion of Hearing Antichristian Ministers; a pretty trick; Much like that Lesson of the Cannon Law: Si non caste tamen cause. But such shifts profit not, for a godly mind will search and look into the cause itself; and not on the persons either for, or against it.  
To oppose a bad course, is meet and lawful, and should we be silent when we are called to testify against it, we should make ourselves hereby open transgressors.  
Touching the building up of ourselves: This (as jude 
† Ver. 20.  teacheth) must be in our most holy faith. He that raiseth up a House with rotten stuff, 
* What is there else in Babylon.  will lose his cost and labour by it.  
I know not what withdrawing he means from other men: if he intent a withdrawing from the Hearing of false Ministers, than I answer, they do well that do it. For if the Temple made with hands, defiled through idolatry, was odious unto God, how much more will he loath our Spiritual Temples (not made with hands) if we suffer them to be polluted with filthy superstition. But so absolutely we shall do, if we do the thing which the Treat: here contends for.  
A good man (saith Ambrose 
m Lib 5. Epist. 30. ) will be earnest and Zealous against idolatry.  
Another saith: 
n Bradshaw on 2 Thes. 2, p. 130.  The better a man is, the more careful will he be to withdraw himself from it. These witnesses are true.  
Fourthly, there are some to be found so soured with modines and discontentment, 
Treat.  as they become unsociable: If they see nothing lamentable, they are ready to lament: If they read any Books, they are only invectives specially against public Sa●es and Governors.  
Answ. 1. As to be unsociable, is inhuman and brutish, so to be careless with whom we join in communion, is sinful and vicious. A traveller were better go alone, then have one in his company that should rob him, and cut his throat.  
2. This is not an age, which wants cause of just lamentation, considering not only the evils without, but what perverse things are brought into the Churches of God, whereby poor people are daily deceived.  
3. That we should look into public States and Governors, there is reason for it; and specially, if the same be Ecclesiastical, for else, how can we walk as men of knowledge, and hold fast only that which is good.  
Lastly, 
Treat.  some think to cover their own both grosser and more proper and personal corruptions, under a furious march, not only against the failings, but the persons also failing of infirmity in matter of Church-order and Ordinances.  
Answ. I suppose by Church-ordinances and Order, he means the Ministry, Worship, and Government under Antichrist. Now, that some of ignorance submit to these things, there is nothing more certain; notwithstanding this gives not allowance to others others (knowing better) to do so too. If there failing be of infirmity, there is the more hope of their reformation, I mean when they shall hear the truth taught, and see the Teachers walk closely in it.  
In conclusion, the Treat: pleas the Rhetorician, and makes a show, as if he could say more, but he will spare his opposites.  
Answ. As for his mincing figure of extenuation (to let much pass) I like it not; For he doth here no otherwise then if a These when he hath stripped a man out of all that he hath, would feign yet be counted merciful, in that he doth not murder him, or bind him as some others have done. Let any indifferent man read his writing, and he will say, the Treat. hath not spared his opposites. but short at them arrows of bitter words, and made them as odious and vile as a man can do. But blessed is he, that is not offended at the truth for such things.   

SECT. 2.  
THE Objections undertaken to be answered by the Treatiser, are (as he lays them down) of two sorts: Some of them are framed upon supposition, that the Ministers in that Church are in themselves Lawful and of God; But yet not to be heard by reason of the abuses & evils to be found in their administrations. Others withdraw herein (and those the more) upon the contrary supposition: to wit, that the very order and constitution of that Church and Ministry is papal and unlawful.  
Answ. For the first I have nothing to say to it. It being a point beside our present dispute. Again, for my part, I am of his mind in the thing: that is, to use his own expression:  
Supposing a Church, and the Ministry, thereof essentially lawful, it cannot but be lawful for the members of other Churches in general union, and association, with it to communicate therewith, in things lawful, and lawfully done: seeing the end of union is communion. God hath in vain united persons, and states together. But he, who would have us receive the weak in faith, whom God hath received, would not have us refuse the fallowship of Churches in that which is good, for any weakness in them, of one sort or other. And this we have so plainly and plentifully commended unto us, both by the Prophets, yea by Christ himself in the jewish Church; and Apostles, and Apostolical men in the first Christian Churches; In which many errors and evils of all kinds were more than manifest: and the same ofttimes both so fare spread, and deeply rooted, as the reforming of them was rather to be wished then hoped for: as that no place is left for doubting in that case by any, who desire to follow their holy steps in faith towards God, and charity towards men, and effectual desire of their own edification.  
What he here writes is surely true; for the Scriptures approve not of rending away from true Churches for any corruption: I use the word any, because so long as we acknowledge the Church to be true (whatsoever her sins are) a separation from all communion with it, is utterly unlawful.  
Our godly predecessors had in them the zeal of God, and love of his truth; 
* Two things I would know of these men 1. Whether they think not that the primitive Christians were as zealous and sincere as themselves. 2. Whether they think not, that the Churches from whom they separate, have as few, if not fewer corruptions, than such Churches had, in which the Apostles and other godly people daily communicated.  But how shown they it? Not by forsaking their Brethren for offences, but in witnessing against them, and seeking their reformation. But now (ah that I could not say it) some men know not how their zeal like jehues may be seen of men, unless they make public Schisms in Churches; and this many times, not for any sin, that they can justly prove the Church to be in, but upon discontentment, and because they cannot have their way and will.  
But of this no more now: For I purpose (if God spare my life) to set forth a Treatise touching this very point.  
The Treatiser in pag. 23, 
Treat.  would have us consider distinctly of Religious actions, according to the several Ranks in which they may rightly & orderly be set. And how we should conceive of them, a little after, he tells us thus: Some such actions are Religious only, as they are performed by Religious persons. And of this sort is Hearing (and so Reading) of God's Word. The Scriptures teach, and all confess, that Hearing of the Word of God goes before Faith, for Faith comes by Hearing, as by an outward means. Hearing then being before Faith, and Faith before all other acts of Religion inward or outward; it must needs follow, that Hearing is not simply, or of itself a work of Religion, and so not of Religious Communion.  
Answ. That the Reader may the better perceive, how greatly the Treat: was deceived in this matter of Hearing: as to think it not to be of Religious Communion: 
● 1 Cor. 1. 9 2 Cor. 6. 14.  I will speak here a little touching the nature of Communion. 
Philip. 2 1. 1 Ich. 1, 3.   
For the word: the Greek koinoneo, signifies to have a part, or share, in, or with persons and things, answerable to it, is the Hebrew Chabar, and imports a consociation, copulation, or meeting together.  
Again, Communion is three-fould; The first between God and Man; The second between Man and Man; The third between Man and actions; For the two later, the same is either civil, or spiritual. I call that a civil Communion, when the matter or ground of it is not in, & of itself divine and spiritual, but earthly and temporal: For spiritual Communion, this is practised two ways: 1. With persons and things: 2. With things, and not persons. Where there is a foregoing joining of people together in a spiritual outward society, or body Pelitick, there is a Religious Communion with persons and things. But where this is not, there is a Communion with things, as the State itself, and the administrations done by the power thereof. Howbeit, as I have said elsewhere, they have no Church communion, that is, to speak properly, they have no Communion with the persons, who are not in Church-estate or union with them.  
And that this is so, the Scriptures 
* 1 Cor. 10, 18.  not only show: but also the denial of it, leads unto gross absurdity: For if a man communicate not, in, and with the Worship he doth, than it must follow, that he neither helps himself in performing true Worship unto God, nor hurts himself to do the contrary; And so by this ground, it is all one whether I do the one or other. But of this we shall have occasion to speak more hereafter; Now to his distinctions.  
1. It cannot be proved, that Hearing and so Reading of God's Word, are actions Religious only, as they are performed by Religious persons.  
This is not so: for it is not the person that makes the action Religious; The reason is, if the action in itself be Religious, it must then be reputed a Religious action, be the door Religious or not.  
That no man may mistake me, let it here be observed, that actions are Religious, either in respect of the matter alone, or the matter and manner too. I confess, it by a Religious action, we understand the later, that is, a thing well done for matter and manner, in this sense, none but Religious persons can perform Religious actions.  
But if by a Religious action, we mean the thing itself, and as (eo nomine) it is to be distinguished, from what is, civil, natural, worldly; then I say again, it is a Religious action (and of this sort is Hearing and so Reading of God's Word) howbeit performed by irreligious people.  
2. Whereas he saith, that Faith goes before all other acts of Religion inward or outward.  
This also is untrue: For men wanting faith (witness Kaan, Ahab, Saul, judas) may yet perform acts of Religion. The Scriptures here cited 
‡ 1 Timo. 1, 5.  are (extra organum) not to the point; For they do not say, 
Rom. 10, 10.  that Faith goes before all acts of Religion; But thus, without faith, we cannot please God by them. So then, note the difference between the Scriptures, and what he inferreth from them. 
Gal. 2, 20.   
Without faith all acts of Religion are without acceptation with God; So these Scriptures; Ergo (saith he) faith goes before all acts of Religion.  
To his mis-applying here, I may well apply that in the Poet: Ego de alijs loquor, 
Lucan:  tu respondere decepis.  
3. Here is made true the saying in the Poet. 
a Fallacia alia aliam tradit.  One falsehood or suttlety bringeth in another. 
Teren. in Andr.  His needs must follow, follows not, but it is an unsound inference from a false principle. Hearing the Word of God, is more (though he deny it) than a natural action. viz. Religious and Spiritual; He reasoneth a specie ad genus negative: because Hearing in some cases is so, therefore it is so in all.  
If it be his meaning, that Hearing is a natural action, as it respects the Organ or means, in, and by which a man receives the knowledge of what he hears. Then it is true, according to that rule in Philosophy 
b Relata esse simul naturâ. , Relations in nature are alike. But this is nothing to the purpose. 
Arist. in Categ. Relat.   
He that eats and drinks bread and wine at the Lords Table; or speaks to God in prayer; performs natural actions, I mean as the members of the body are here used: But if we consider either the Sacrament or Prayer in the subject or object thereof, so they are not natural actions, but religious, and the like is Hearing of the Word of God.  
For his two reasons, they are of no weight; For 1. though the light of nature teacheth a man to listen to another, yet this proves not, that it teacheth him to Hear in the way and manner here pleaded for.  
2. Were it granted it did: yet might the action be Religious; For the light of nature 
c Rom. 1. 20, 21. Epictetus' a Stoic writeth thus: It is before all things to be learned that there is but one God; that he ruleth all things; that he provideth for all; that whatsoever we do, speak, or think, nothing can be hid from him; that we should worship him as our Creator and Father, and the only author of our felicity. Epictus apud Arrian. , leadeth us to sundry divine duties, howbeit insufficient to guide us in the right manner of doing them.  
3. I grant, a mere natural man ought necessarily to hear God's Word; Notwithstanding it will not follow, when he hears in a Churchway, that he performs no Religious action. This is as if one should say, because a rebel is no good subject, he cannot do any civil service to his Prince; I speak not of the aim of his heart, but only of a formal doing.  
That which the Treatiser unjustly lays as a fault on Mr. johnson in pag. 23. is most true of himself in pag. 26, 27. to wit, a want of distinction between things. It is so as he saith, Preaching by some, and Hearing by others, may be performed without any Religious Communion passing between the persons preaching or hearing.  
This I say is right, but that which afterwards he makes one with it, is different and otherwise; namely, that a man may hear a Minister teach officially, and yet not have communion with the state of the Teacher.  
I may apply here against him, that in the civil Law, testes dome stici househould witnesses are of no validity. This is but his own saying, said over many times, and indeed argueth more wit than truth, and sophestry than sincerity.  
Scholars are taught out of the Topics, that it is ill arguing a consequenti, when in two positions things utterly unlike, shallbe compared together, and the one by no means can infer the other.  
I have proved before, that howsoever a man stand not in spiritual and political church communion with a Church and ministry thereof, yet he is there a participant or communicant in, and with the ordinances, as with the doctrines taught, so with the state of the Teacher.  
For the better clearing of this; Let us in few words consider, a Church state, Ministry, and administrations, make up (as I may so say) the body of divine worship. Now it is a known Maxim quidquid est pars partis, est etiam pars t●tius. The hand is a part of the body, the finger a part of the hand, he therefore that holds either my hand or finger toucheth my body. So in just proportion, he that toucheth any part or member of the spiritual & political body, he toucheth the body or state, be the same true or false: if true, his communion is lawful: if false, he toucheth an uncheane thing, and ●o● sinneth against that precept in 1. Cor. 6. 17.  
To end this Section howsoever hearing of the word of God, lies in common for all, for the good of all. Yet hath God appointed away and order unto all, how to hear it. Food and raiment lies in common to all, for the good of all: What of this, shall we hence conclude it is no matter by what means or course men have it; indeed so he reasoneth or else (Oleum et operam perdidit) he speaketh neither for himself nor against us. Mr. Baines 
f Diocesen. trial. p. 7.  writes well, no people can worship God in repairing to any Church, or ministry without warrant of his word. Let the reader note it.   

SECT. 3.  
THe Treatiser for this opposities, hath framed 16: objections: the which (as himself saith 
* Pag. 13.  he hath either heard from others, or could conceive of himself, ooulerably against the practice by him propounded. The first is laid down thus:  
No man may submit his conscience to be wrought upon, 
Object. 1.  by an unlawful and antichristian ministry: neither hath God promised, or doth afford 
† These words in a different letter, are the Treat. own, and we disclaim them.  any blessing upon it, neither can any have the sanctified use thereof.  
His answer hereto is this. The office of the ministry works not upon the conscience of the hearer properly: the office gives only power and charge to the Teacher, to teach in such aplace: it resides in the person of the officer alone, the communion lawful or unlawful which any hath with it, is in regard of the lawful or unlawful relation and union foregoing between the persons, and not in any working of the office upon the conscience of any: God may and doth bless the truths taught fauls ministers.  
Answ. It was Heiroms' 
k Paulum quotiescunque lego videor mihi non verba audire, sed tonitrua: count. jovinian.  censure of Paul's Epistles, that when he read them He thought he heard not words but Thunder. This cannot be well applied to his reply here. For should I speak my conscience, it is a mere phraseology, words without weight of reason.  
1. He denies our first assertion: But how clears he it to the contrary? As is his ground, so are his proofs: Only bare saying: Sit pro ratione voluntas.  
That the Office of the Minister, works upon the Hearers conscience; It is certain, and not to be denied, without loss of credit, both to the person and cause of the denier in the eye of all reasonable men: 
l Exo. 28.  For this is evident by the Scriptures, whether we respect an Office true or false. 
Ephes. 4, 11. 2 Thes. 2, Rev. 9   
Again, if it be considered, what we mean by the Office working upon the conscience; Common reason will prove it too: Our meaning is, that the state or power by which he administers, is herein submitted too. As Magistrates are obeyed in civil Justice, because of their calling, and were it not for it, men could not for conscience sake receive their administrations: So the conscience of a Hearer is brought in subjection to the ordinance of Hearing, even for the Office sake of him that teacheth; We intent here Ministerial teaching.  
It is most certain (saith one 
m Mr. Peitry of the Ministry of the Church of England: Pag. 37. 38. ) Satan ruleth in the consciences of men, not only by false doctrine, but also by his false power and ordinances; His Kingdom of darkness not only consisteth in the lies and false doctrine, and worship which he hath coined, but also in the false and Antichristian Ordinances, which he hath invented for the ruling of his Idolatrous den: And therefore the Children and Saints of God ought to avoid both the one and the other. So he.  
2. It is not true, that the Office only gives power and charge to the Teacher to teach in such or such a Church-state. For properly it respects not that at all, but rather the Office of the person gives him power to preach, pray, administer the Sacraments, etc. according to their Order and Canons. He that that hath not a Church-state to preach in, yet being ordained Priest, hath power by his Office to do the work of a Priest any where. And so much the Treat. 
n Manumis. to a Manuduct, p. 70.  in another Book acknowledgeth: The Office is the very state and function conferred upon a man by his calling, from which Office ariseth immediate 
* Note this.  power, and charge to administer, and to perform the works of that Office: In the performance of which works the Office is executed &. power used.  
And whereas he mentioneth here, the truths they teach: I grant these are from God, but the Office which gives them power and charge to speak them, is from Antichrist: And a special Character or Mark (as the Learned 
o Mr. Simon on the Rev. pag. 120.  write) of the Beast. Thus said john Chaydon, 
p Acts and Monuments, Edict. 5. pag. 588.  a Martyr of Christ: The Bishop's licence to preach the Word of God, is the true Character of the Beast, that is of Antichrist. The like Mr. Bale 
q On Revel chap. 14. 9 , and others.  
3. Whereas he saith, the false Office resides in the person of the Officer alone; Here I might take that exception of the Law 
r In testimon. dig: de testibus  against him. They who wander against the credis of their own Testimonies, are not to be heard. Against this, we have his own testimony; For thus he saith 
s Manumiss. to a manuduct. pag. 5.  those that partake in the work of preaching of one, sent by the Bishops, do partake in what lieth in them in the authority of the sender. And this is so indeed. The sinful Office of the Teacher, becomes his sin, who practiseth will-worship with him: For hereby he enwraps himself into the guilt of the Office; And this thing by another is so clearly proved 
t Treatise of the Ministry of the church of England, by Fran: johnson. Pag. 5, 6, 7, etc. , as no man can deny it, that hath any light of reason or Religion shining in him.  
4. What can be vainer said (our enemies themselves being judges) then to say, God may and doth bless the truths taught by false Ministers: A posse ad esse n●n valet consequentia. To reason thus, is both against Logic and Divinity. To dispute (saith King james 
u A speech in Parliament, anno 1609. ) what God may do, is blasphemy, but quid vult Deus, that divines may Lawfully, and do ordinarily dispute and discourse.  
It never came into our hearts to think, that God may not bless the Truths taught by false Ministers: But this we hold, he hath not in his Word promised any blessing unto it. And in this Luther is with us. God blesseth not (saith he 
x Comment. in Galat. cap. 1. pag. 42. , meaning by any ordinary promise) their labour, who are not lawfully called to the Ministry.  
The injunction 
y Injunction 3.  of Q. Elizabeth, set forth by public authority, is much to this purpose. Works devised by man's fancy, (so is every unlawful Ministry, and condemned as Cartwright 
z Christ. Cate●h. of Relic. chap. 16. Pag. 98  saith in the second commandment) have not only no promise of reward for doing of them, but contrariwise great threatenings & maledictions of God.  
The Treatiser 
a justificat. of Separ. pag. 79.  was of this opinion too, when he said: The Lord hath promised no blessing to his Word, but in his own Ordinance, though by his supper abundant merey he ofttimes vouchsafe that, which no man can challenge by any ordinary promise.  
And because the Treat. is here so brief, a touch and away: As if our Objection had no weaght; I will therefore lay the argument down in this manner.  
Such Churches, unto whom God hath made no promise in his Word, to bless the things there done; ought not by God's people to be resorted to.  
But God in his Word hath made no promise to bless the things done in a false Church.  
Therefore God's people are not to go unto false Churches.  
The Proposition cannot be excepted against: For 1. The Scriptures prove it clearly. 
* jer. 23, 21, 22.   
Again, there is no duty charged upon us, 
Ex. 20, 24  but there is a blessing promised, 
Psa. 134, 3 & 147, 13.  unto the due performance of it.  
The assumption is as clear, and thus we prove it.  
If false Churches have not the promise of God's presence, they cannot from the Word of God, expect his blessing upon what they do. But the first is true: Ergo the second.  
The Major, which is only controversal, we prove thus.  
If every false Church be an Idol 
b Exo. 20. 45. , and God require his people to come out thence 
c Rev. 18, 4. , threaten to destroy it 
d Rev. 20. 8, 9 , and will do it, and promise his presence unto the true Church 
e Mat. 18. 20. : Then is he not present 
* We mean such a presence of God, as by his Word we can be sure of it.  in the false: But the first is true, therefore the second.  
Here I might name sundry learned Men, who give witness to this thing. Christ (saith Raynolds 
f De Rom. Eccles. idolat. l. 2. c. 1. pag. 99  the Pastor of his Church, doth tell us, that he feeds not in Antichristian assemblies; in the den of Thiefs, neither is it his will, that his flock should there rest at noon: But in the pleasant pasture, by the still waters, that is in the shadows of the true Christian Churches, detesting idolatry.  
Another thus: They that do usurp Ministerial function in the Church, 
g Dr. Slater on Rom. 1. Pag. 8.  cannot expect God's blessing on their labour. Doctor Ames lays it down as a reason why a lawful calling is necessary; namely, that so they may expect a blessing from God.  
It is true which these men say, for our ground for Hearing in church way is not because the speaker is a man gifted, able to open and apply the scriptures. &c, But because that which he doth is a a divine institution, an ordinance charged on us, to practice, & to which God hath promised his presence and blessing.  
Let our opposites show us where it is written, that the gifts and personal graces of the man, is sufficient to justify the hearing of him 
* We intent Ministerial teaching. a Chap. 23 2.  but rather the reason wherefore we he are him, is, because of the lawful calling which he hath to administer the holy things of God.  
Our Saviour as it appears by Matthew approves of the hearing of the Scribes and Pharisees; But upon what ground, not because they were able to open and apply, the doctrines of Faith by that Church professed: but) as Piscator saith because they were called and ordained of God, 
Adeo vocati at que constituti su●t ut legem Mosis in Synagogis populo praelegant cumque ad 〈◊〉 observationem exh●●tentur. Analis. in Mat. 23, v. 2.  that they should preach the Law of God in the Synagogues to the people, and exhort them to the observation thereof-Aretius on the place saith the like and adds, their calling bound the people to hear them.  
So then here we see that men, being lawfully called to the ministry are to be heard howsoever in some qualifications defective: but that such who have taken on a false office, are to be heard th●s I deny: and ever shall do, until they show me some divine precept for it, as we have for the other, which is (Tantah horto fructus colligere▪) a thing that they can never do.  
For his phrase Balaam-like to curse: I pass it by: only I think good to put our opposites in mind, of that which is written in I●sh. 6. 26. Cursed be the man before the Lord that raiseth up and buildeth the city lericho.  
I am sure, God of old-hath devoted Babylon to destruction: let men therefore see to it that they bring not themselves under a greater curse, by using their pens and tongues, to rise up again one part of the Kingdom of the beast which the Lord before had consumed with the spirit of his mouth.   

SECT. 4.  
THE Treatiser frames our second objection in this manner.  
To hear such a minister is to honour approve and uphold his office of ministry. 
Object.   
In confutation of this, thus he saith.  
If this he simply true then when the heathenish Athenians heard Paul preach: 
Treat.  or when an unbeliever comes into the Church assembly, an a hears the preacher he approves, honours and uphold the office of the ministry.  
Answ: The virgins in Cypryans' time granted, they walked with young men, talked with them, went led with them, but when they came to the act, they abstained.  
The Treat. writings here, and in all the rest of his Book, is much to the same purpose: He grants, that men may walk to the Harlot's House 
* But the Word of God forbids it, Pro, 5, 7. Lyran expounds this place of the false Church, Tom. 2, p. 314. , hear her told gueists, and yield to sundry dallying gestures (as bowing the knee, uncovering the head, etc.) but when they come to the act they must absteane: What that learned man 
a Non est locus dondus Diabolo: Nemo diu tutus periculo proximus, l. 1, c. 11.  then answered, so do I: No place must be given to the Devil, no man is long safe, who is near the point of danger. To the matter.  
That our argument may appear strong; Secundam legem oppositionis (as the lawyers term is) we will put it down in this form.  
To yield any approbation, liking, or reverence unto men's institution in the exercise of Religion is a sin.  
But in hearing Antichristian Ministers, there is approbation liking, and reverence yielded unto men's institution in the exercise of Religion.  
Therefore it is a sin to do it.  
The Major cannot be denied; for the Scriptures 
b Mat. 15, 19, Ps. 16, 4 Colos. 2, 20, 21, Deu 5, 9, 10, 1 Cor. 6▪ 17, Hos. 2, 16, Ex. 23, 13  teach us the very thing. Besides the most judicious Writers affirm so too.  
God forbiddeth (saith Mr. jacob 
c Exposition on Com. 2. ) all approbation, liking or reverence, though never so small showed towards any institution and inventions of men whatsoever in the exercise of Religion, yea all words either of tongue or pen, tending to defend or excuse such humane inventions in God's service.  
I might allege. Calvin 
d Serm. 52, on Deu. , Mollerus 
e In ps. 16, 4. p. 108. , Smilerus 
f In Exo. fol. 90. , Macabeus 
g Enarrat. in Deu. 12, loc. 1.  Vrsinus 
h Explic. Catech. p 759.  Vigrandus 
i Synops. Antichrist , Zanchy 
k De redempt. fol. 90. , D. Andrew 
l On the Com. 2. , D. Fulk 
m Confut. of Allen. 378. , Perkings 
n Catech. c. 16, p 96 , Cartwright, Ainsworth 
p Annot. on Ex. 20 45. , and others, who in their writings affirm the same.  
The minor is as clear: for 1. It is not possible that men can come unto Antichristian churches to worship God, but they must by their presence there, show reverence & honour to the public false state and ministry.  
Note what an English Prelate 
q Determinat. Quaest. 7, p. 40.  saith, it appertaineth to the virtue of truth, that as a man showeth himself by external signs, so he is indeed to be esteemed.  
The Douai 
r Annotat. in 2 King 5, 19, p. 771.  translators of the Bible writ thus, such as frequent, or repair unto unlawful assemblies, for the public service of God, by their being there are to be reputed of the same religion, or else dessemblers: as it were to have no care of religion, knowing God and not glorifying him as God.  
Cornelius a lapide 
s In Epist. 2. p. 505. ) in his commentary on john, saith, false ministers are favoured and approved in their unlawful way, when they are heard.  
Chytraeus 
t De Eucharistia, p. 317, 318.  handleth largely this point, & from 1. Cor. 10. 14. concludes, that all false Churches are to be left utterly, because (saith he) a man's presence there is an approbation of them, Rivetus 
v Comment. in Psa. 16, p. 53.  adds this: Etiam si nemo ad confessionem adigeretur: Yea though a man came not thither for confession sake.  
If the father's thought that the Christians could not wear garlants of bay, 
x Tertull. de corona milit.  nor deck their houses with leaves, and green bawes; Nor sit after they had prayed, nor rest from their labour those days that Pagans did, nor keep the first of every month as they did. 
y Brac. z Tom. Can. 73.  But they should countenance and honour heathenish ceremonies, and superstitions.  
If these fathers (I say) conceived so, of these things, surely then upon the like, or better reason, may I conclude, that to go unto false churches, and there hear unlawful Ministers is, to show approbation, liking, and reverence unto men's institutions in the exercise of religion.  
The Prophet Hosea 
a Hos. 2. 13.  reproves some, for kissing the Calves: But what was this sin. Pareus 
b In Hos. 13. 2. pag. 557. Tom. 1.  saith it was, their bodily presence at false worship, by which presence they shown aliking to it. So Calvin. 
c Praelect. in Hos. 13. 2. pag. 157.   
Again, the point is further cleared, in that idols by this practice are honoured. Observable it is, whereas on Evangilist 
a Ma●. 4. 9 See Pareus on the place.  (setting down the Tempter's words to Christ) saith, worship me: Another 
b Luk. 4. 7.  hath it, worship before me: Showing that it is all one to worship before the Devil, or to worship him; Now, he is worshipped, when idols 
c 2 Chro. 11. 15. 1. Cor. 10. 20. Rev. 9 20. 1 Tim. 4. 1.  are worshipped, or any false institution are observed and practised: Yea (as Cartwright 
d Histor. Christ lib. 1. pag. 14.  saith) ta●etsi ex amino, aut superstitione quadam deceptus hoc non faciant.  
To apply this, the Treat grants, that a false Church is a real idol, apart of Antichristisme, and of the apostasy of the man of sin; If so; then hearing there, must needs be unlawful, because it is to worship before an idol, & such an idol as that the worship there done, issues from it, as the stream or river from the fountain.  
To the particulars of his reply. 1. For the Athenians hearing of Paul, it is as impertinent a speech as was ever used by a man of learning▪ For we dispute only of Church hearing, and not of what is occasional, and done out of publick-state, or Churchway. We never held it unlawful, to hear any man deliver the Word of God, as the circumstances may be. But what of this: hence the Treat, will infer, that we may hear any where, and in any way.  
If another should have framed such an answer to him, he would have said, that either he had not learned his Sophestry, or else thought he had to do with fools; For he reasoneth, ab eo quod est secundum quid ad simpliciter. Makes a general consequence of that which is true in part.  
2. To say, if I approve of the Office simply, because I hear the Officer preach, than I much more approve of all the Doctrines which he delivers. This is not so, nor so; For the Office is an institution, by which the Officer hath power to administer: And howsoever, we have our freedom to like or dislike of the administrations, as we see just cause for it: Yet by our joining and communion with them, we certainly approve of the state itself, whether lawful or unlawful; For Example:  
If I come where the Magistrates are sitting, and have civil justice there administered to me; Albeit by this going of mine to their Court for judgement, I really approve of the state that they are in: yet I am not therefore necessitated to approve of all the acts & conclusions they make, but may dislike them, if I see they are not as they ought to be.  
The Corinthians, for aught I can see, resorted unto the Feasts of idols, upon the same ground that the Treat. lays down for hearing. They went not of superstition; for they were to well instructed; and Paul in their person brings forth an excuse for them: 
* 1. Cor. ●. 4.  We know that an idol is nothing. As if they should say, we regard not what they have devised their public false-state concerns us not, for we have left it: We are in no Church-communion with their Officers, our meaning is not to worship as they do, they intent one thing, we another. But did this satisfy the Apostle? Not in the least; For he knew their private differing intention, was▪ but a strong fruit of the flesh, monstrous presumpt on, and a mere delusion; For their eating was not to be looked upon, and judged after their secret meaning. But according to that public state where they were.  
And here I desire the Reader to note the difference between Paul and the Treat. Paul makes the sin of the Corinthians to be their resorting to an idol-state; Not simply their eating (for tha● they might have done elsewhere) but because it was in, by, or from an institution of the Devil.  
The Treat. lays us down a contrary Doctrine, and tells us, a false Church-state, is nothing: And Antichristian Officer nothing; And that we may lawfully worship God in the one, and hear his Word preached by the other, provided we be not in Church-communion with the Officer, etc.  
Truly the difference here is great: For the Treat. clears the Corinthians of the thing for which the Apostle condemns them. But I will not press this further now; Only what Augustine * said of the learned Fathers, I may speak of the Treatis. in stead of him, or rather above him, Paul the Apostle cometh to my mind, to him I run, to him I appeal, from all sorts of writers that think otherwise.  
For conclusion, if the false state of a Church and Ministry defile only the members thereof: And as for other present worshippers, they are blameless: If this (I say) be a true saying, them hath he vainly confined himself to the Ministry of the Church of England; For his Position will serve as well to justify hearing among Papists, Arrians, Sorcinians, jews, Turks, etc. Yea further, and to be present at any service or worship they do.  
For what should hinder, but according to this ground, a man may lawfully go to the Temples of the Saracens, and he are their Priests: considering they do deliver many material truths. As that God is true and righteous in all his ways a: 
● In Alcho ran Azoara. 1. : The Creator of all things b: The giver of every good gift 
c Azoar. 14.  Admetus that jesus Christ is the Son of Mary 
d Azoar. 11. , the Messenger of God, and a true Prophet 
e Azoar. 7. .  
If any object, but they utter many lies and blasphemies. I answer, the hearing simply of errors, corrupts not the Hearer: For so he consents not to them in judgement, not practice, but testifieth against them, he delivers his own soul.   

SECT. 5.  
THE Treatiser lays down our next OBJECTION thus:  
By this than it seems, a man may be present at any act of Idolatry, and do as others do, that practice Idolatry, yet not approve of it. And so the three Nobles in Danial needed not to have put themselves upon such pikes of danger as they did, for not falling down as others did in the place.  
To this he answereth: 
Treat:  1. In preaching of the truths of the Gospel, no idolatrous act is performed.  
Answ. I perceive it is an easy thing to conquest, if begging may procure one that: But we are no such children as to give the cause so away.  
1. Therefore I say, in preaching of the truths of the Gospel (viz: by a false Minister, about which is our dispute) an idolatrous act is performed; And that the Reader may understand this thing the better: He is to consider, that divine worship is not to be determined by a particular thing (howbeit in itself good) but as all the essential parts belonging thereto (whether they are persons or things) are kept and observed.  
The Church of Rome in Baptism useth water, and in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, gives bread, and otherwhile wine too; doth this clear their administrations of idolatry? So runs the Treat: reasoning: But we cannot receive it, for the Lord never spoke so by him.  
I think all men do think, that Vzziah 
a 2 Chro. 26. 16.  committed an idolatrous act, when he invaded the Priests Office. But what made it so? took he unlawful incense? No. Used he strange fire? No. Offered he prohibited sacrifice, or upon a wrong Altar? No. Where then lay the fault? The Scripture tells us it pertained not to him to burn incense unto the Lord, but to the Sons of Aaron 
b Ver. 18.  To apply this, if his act were idolatrous, because he wanted a calling, howbeit observed many truths of the Law; By the same reason, the Church-acts of Antichristian Ministers, are idolatrous; Yea & as for the truths which they preach, this clears their acts no more from idolatry; then Vzziahs' true incense and Altar, quitted him from transgression.  
It is truly said of one 
c Lavaret. in Josh. 22. Home 61. pag 7.  We ought not to conclude of an action, that it is good, because it hath in it some thing which in itself is so.  
And this is true, as in divine things, so in humane too: For it is a known Tenent of Philosophers, 
d Omne totum suis partibus ordinatur, mensuretur & determinatur.  the whole is composed, measured and determined of all the parts.  
Unto the constitution of the whole (according to Aristotlec) is required 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  
2. As job 
f job. 24.4.  saith, who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one. The false Office by our Opposit●es is acknowledged to be unclean. Now, to deny that their Ministerial acts are not from thence, is against common sense. And this further may be amplified by that passage in the Prophet, 
g Hag. 2. 12 13. See junius on the place.  where it is showed, that holy things are polluted by touching things unclean. 
e Arist. 12. Met. 3, & Lib. de Poet. cap. 7.   
3. If in preaching the truth (according to the point in question) no idolatrous act is performed: Then it will follow, that a man may remain a Minister of a false Church all his life time: Provided, he only teach 
* Note that such whom they call Lecturers, in some places only preach, and do nothing else: As I myself for some years stood some.  the truths of the Gospel; Our reason is, for in this, if he do no idolatrous act, than he sinneth not, & so Consequently no just cause of his coming out from among them. The vileness of which thing, I leave to the Readers censure.  
4, By the Treat: assertion, all usurpers of civil Offices can justify themselves easily; For although they are inrtuders and Traitor's: Yet seeing their administrations are so and so: No Rebellious Act is performed. I could note here many more such absurdities & inconsequences, tualoga in theologa, as they call them: but enough is said; Considering the truth brings forth no error nor absurdity by true consequence. Neither doth one part contradict another, as Augustine 
h Scriptura sancta in nulla parte discordat. De verb. dom. 2. & 11.  well observeth.  
Let us hear what he hath further to say: 
Treat.  The Jews after Christ's death, and the taking away and abolishing of the legal ordinance thereby, circumcised their infants, and frequented the Temple for purification and other Mosaical Ceremonies, as parts of God's Worship, and still remaining of divine institution. Paul also circumcised Timothy, entered the Temple, and yet did not approve any manner of way of the error and evil of the jewish worshippers.  
Answ. It is truly said of the Orators, there is nothing done so evil, but with fair colors a man may defend it. To allege the Legal Ordinances for the justifying of this Hearing, is a poor shift, and shows a desperate case. For 1. it is doubtful to some, whether any did well to practise the Mosaical Ceremonies after our Lords suffering; I could name not a few, who say, it was their failing that did so.  
But 2. grant (and so I think) that yet the jewish Rites were tolerable, I say in respect of the time, of an indifferent nature, and therefore their observation till further propagation of the Gospel in offensive, and in itself not evil; And so thinks Calvin 
i Instit. l. 3 c. 19, Sect. 10.  Bez● 
k Annot. in Act. 21, 27.  P. Martyr 
l Loc. Coon. in Clas. 2, c. 4, pag. 200. , Zanchy 
m In precept. 3, pag. 338. , the Writers of the Centuries 
n Cent. 1. l. 1● pag. 416. , the Rhemists 
o In Act. 21 24. . God minding (saith Augustine 
p Ad Hierom. Epist. 16. ) to have them honourably buried.  
Now, what makes this for his purpose: if there be any agreement between this Example and the thing he stands for, thus it must be: if it were lawful for Paul and others, to do a thing which might be either done or not done, according to circumstances; than it is Lawful to hear false Ministers, howbeit the practice be against the Word of God. I shall need say little more, for if his best friends will but draw the curtain and look on both parts with a single and impratiall eye, they must without more ado, confess that I have rightly applied it, or they themselves applied to it, what we say commonly, non causam pro causa; he takes that for defence of his cause, which maketh naught to the purpose.  
3. To speak a little further in this thing, (because some of our Opposites conceive it is much for them:) I desire these few particulars may be considered: 1. The Ceremonies whereof we speak, had a necessary use of avoiding scandal 
q Act. 15, 28.  2. They were expedient for drawing of people unto the faith & order of the Gospel 
r 1 Cor. 6, 20, 22. : 3. Of Gods own institution at first. 4. No part of worship. 5. During a time after Christ's resurrection in their nature indifferent 
s Rom: 14 16, Gal. 6 15. . 6. In the use of them it was not a holding of conformity with idolaters in their Ceremonies.  
Contrary to this is the Hearing in question. For it giveth offence to Brethren, hinders many from entering into Church-estate; it hath no other ground but man's invention, it is a special part of divine worship, in itself a practice sinful and unlawful, and makes the observers like idolaters in their idolatrous actions.  
That which next follows, is his Wooden Reason of a Cross. I will sert down his own words.  
To come nearer home, 
Treat:  it is the custom in Popish Countries, that all that pass by a Cross, must in honour of it leave it on the right hand, as they may do, by reason of the placing of it, coming or going. 
t D. Rainold against Hart. c: 1, divis: 2, pag. 46  Now, if I ride with others that way, I may do the thing that they do, and keep Company with them, and yet not honour the Cross.  
Answ. It was a common practice (as a wise and learned man observes) among young Students, in the time of the Dunces, that if in disputation they were brought to an inconvenience, were it never so absurd: they would have a distinction, though without brain or sense.  
I will not say, that the Trea. distinction here is senseless, but this I say (and will make it good) it is truthless, besides hurtful and dangerous.  
For to take the things as he lays it down; that is, there are two ways to pass by a Cross, and I know there are in company some, who in honour of the idol, will leave it on the right hand; Now in this case, if I should silently pass on that side with them, I should offend, yea though I did it, for no other cause, but to keep on with my company.  
My reasons for it are these: 1. The practising of an indifferent thing, wherein others superstitiously put holiness and necessity, is an occasion of confirming and hardening of them in their superstition. Of this judgement were the Germane Churches in the Confession of Auspnrg 
a Harm. Confess. pag. 222. , and Musculus 
b Loc. Com. pag. 422. , Chyereus 
c In Mat. p. 342, 343. , Bucanus 
d Loc. pag. 353. & 332. , B. Jewel 
e Defen. of Apol. p. 386. , D. Whitaker 
f Descript. pag. 483. , and others.  
2. God's Word chargeth us to avoid all appearance of evil, and condemns all such, as with their bodies, and in outward show 
g Levit. 18. 34. and 19 19 Exo. 23. 24. , give any appearance to idolaters, of conforming themselves to them in their idolatrous actions; howsoever they do it not with the same mind and intent that the others do. And this is affirmed by Bucer 
h Com. in Mat. c. 18. fol. 143. 6. , Polanus 
i In Ezech. c. 16. , Calvin 
k In Levit. 19 pag. 207. , B. Hooper 
l Upon jonas: Serm. 6. fol. 146. , and others.  
3. 
Deu. 14. 1. and 12. 4. 30. 31. Gen. 35. 5.  I must please my neighbour to edification 
* Rom. 15. 2. 1 Cor. 8. 33. . Now mark it, if I yield him not due help in fit time and place, whereby to withhold him from sin, I become accessary to the evil he doth, So writ The●philact 
m Com. in Rom. 15. , D. Ames 
n De conscien. l. 5. c. 10. p. 282.  and others.  
4. Here the Proverb is fulfilled, Silence is consent, For not only by words, works and Examples, may a man become partaker of another's sin; Verum etiam silentio, & dissimulatione vel conniventia, communionem possimus habere cum aliorum peccatis, saith D. Ames in the forenamed place.  
Another 
o Danaeus Comment. in 1 Tim. c. 5. ver. 22. p. 339.  thus: Agentes & consentientes pari paena puniuntur, qui cum furibus pro fures habentur apud Deum.  
5. If that passage in Calvin 
p Instit. l. 3. c. 19 Sect. 11.  be true, they give offence who do any thing unseasonably, rashly, and out of order and place, unto the hurt of others: then is not this thing void of scandal.  
6. Dissimulation is a kind of denial of Christ. So saith Zanchy 
q Precept. 3. pag. 554. Tom. 4.  And Aquinas 
r Aquin. 2. 2. quaest. 3. art. 1.  calls it mendacium in factis. And that this is dissimulation: the description of that vice will make it evident. For according to Davena● 
s Determ. quaect. 7. pag. 40.  that is dissembling, cum aliquis per signa factorum contrarium eius significat quod in ment clausum habet. And these reasons may be applied against the going with others to an idol-ministerie, Church, Worship, &c, as here unto a Cross.  
The Treat. goes forward thus: If I have just and reasonable cause of coming or standing before the Magistrate (to whom I own civil honour) while he is performing some act of idolatry, in the streets or else where; I may upon the same ground, go or stand uncovered by him, without just blame.  
Answ. I may say (as another said 
t D. Fulk. Confut. Rhem. on Philip. 2. 10.  in a like case) with such respects, relations, and distinctions, all idolatry and will-worship may be defended.  
It grieves me truly, to see his fearful retiring into the battered works of the Familists: for howsoever he minseth it, and would make his thread somewhat fairer; notwithstanding their web and warp is one: for let the doctrine of the Familists be perused, and it will appear, it is all one here with the Treatisers. Men (say they 
u See a Book set forth by Edmond jessop. against Anabapt. ) upon occasion may be bodily present where idolatry is practised; yet so, as they loath the same, and keep their hearts to God only. So they  
What they (by Occasion) do mean, and he by a just and reasonable cause, I know not, neither do I much desire to know; but this I know, there can be no reason given, that a man should come where idolatry is practised, (be the Magistrate present) and there in any outward signs and gestures do as the rest, secretly proposing to himself, not to give any honour to the false worship, but to the Magistrate, to whom he owes civil worship.  
If Namaan had been of the Treat. judgement, he would not have questioned the lawfulness of going with his master into the House of Rinnon: For he had as just and reasonable a cause, as the Treat. I think could instance. Moreover, he meant only in applying himself in civil service to the King, and had renounced before all superstitions of the Heathens, so that he would not bow in respect of the idol, for he detested it with his heart: Notwithstanding all this, to go thither, he could not lawfully do, I say upon no terms was it lawful for him, to do any civil reverence and honour to the Magistrate▪ while he was performing acts of idolatry. And so, say Calvin 
a In 2. King. 5. , Martyr 
b Loc. Con. p. 199. and 643. , Sedelius 
c Comment. in 2. King. 5. , Bidembachius 
d Id. , Zanchy 
e Praec. 3. p. 536. , Musculus 
f In a dial. translated out of French into English , Virel 
g Ground Rel. l. 2. p. 103. , and others.  
We are to serve God in the sight of the world, and what we think in our hearts, that should be written (as it were) and seen in our foreheads. But many now a days, make no conscience of dissembling in Religion, so it be for some worldly advantage; as that jewd fellow professeth in the Poet 
h Teren. in Phorm. Act. 3. Scen. 2. , Non pudet vanitatis, minime, dum ad rem.  
But such as desire to walk (● 
i Gal. 2. 13. ) with a right foot, cannot endure it. Policarpus 
k Euseb. l. 4. c. 15.  might have saved his life if he would have dissembled before the Magistrate, but he saw it would have been an appearance of evil, and a discouragement to the brothers, and therefore spoke boldly, Christianus sum.  
Sozemon 
l Hist. l. 5.  reports that julian the Apostate calling all his soldiers before him, gave to every one a grain of incense to cast into the fire, and a piece of gold; they that were christians, having also received each man his incense and gold; not understanding at the first that he was performing any act of idolatry, but that the rite tended either to his own personal dignity, or to make some sweet perfume; but hearing-afterwards that this perfume was made unto the idols, they returned every one with his gold again, gave it to him, deplored their oversight, though in so doing they endangered themselves of martyrdom.  
The protestant princes of Augusta, in the days of Charles 5. could not be won either by fair means of foul to stand by the Emperor uncovered while he was performing some acts of idolatry: For if they would have done so, there estates, honour, liberty, etc. would have been granted to them.  
I could preduce the examples of many others, who rather than they would come and stand by the magistrate whilst he was performing some act of idolatry and there bow the knee, or uncover the head and suffer both their krees and head to be cut of; and good reason too: for such a practice, is the high of delusion and deph of dissimulatio: and as one 
m Calf hill on the Cross, fol. 185.  truly saith howsoever men flatter themselves with a hidden opinion yet the evident and apparent work of capping bowing and kneeling, shows that the heart is unsound, and the door a mere idolater. Blessed is he therefore, that condemneth not himself in the thing he approveth.  
In conclusion he saith: To apply these things to the Objection moved, 
Treat:  seeing no other cause could reasonably be conceived of the Kings commanding such a thing, or of their doing the thing at his commandment, save the worshipping of the idol, in so doing they could not have escaped the just plaime of idolatry: But now I have just cause more than one of my hearing, and amongst the rest mine edification; & therefore cannot be challenged therein, to approof the ministers state, or standing, besidee that, as I formerly answered here is none idolatrous act performed.  
Answ. 1. Thine own mouth (saith Eliphaz in job 
n Chap. 15, 6.  condemneth thee, and not I: Yea thine own lips testify against thee. His application here, is indeed against himself: For If the 3: Nobles in Daniel, had committed idolatry in falling down before the idol● (yea howsoever they had not intended to honour it) because it was the known and public intent of the setting up of it, to be adored, and the King's commandment was that it should be so: This being so, than it follows, that seeing false churches and false ministers are real idols, set up by earthly Princes; & their known intent by public proclamation is, that all people within their dominions should come to them, bow before them, and by outward gestures approve of them: This I say being so, the conclusion is (certo certius) not liable to exception, that whosoever comes, and bows before those idols, cannot escape the just blame of idolatry, howsoever in himself, he intendeth no such thing.  
And here let it be observed (what we even now said) if a man perform an action in a state, and of public nature, he is to be considered (in respect of himself) as is that state, and according to the public ordinances: For If the state, be false, and the officer unlawful, it is familisme for him to say, I know this state, is set up against the Lord jesus Christ, and every comer here to worship, according to the constitution, is an idolater: but I will have in myself asecret meaning from the rest, and in this regard, I cannot be accounted an approver of the state, or that I do any worship here, as the same is publicly established and intended it should be done.  
The learned condenme this, and style it gross dissimulation, and a mocking of God. So Scarpius, 
o Symphom proph. pag. 238.  Caelius, 
p A little Treat: to all faithful Christ.  Hemingius, 
q In Ephe. c. 5.  Rivetus, 
r In Psa. 16 p. 53, 54.  Zanchy, 
s in Comt; 3, p. 534;  Mr. Philpot, 
t Act. mon. pag; 2002;  yea the thing is so vile, as a Papist 
u Called the love of the ●oule;  hath written against it, a whole treatise.  
The authors of Pirth assembly write thus: Wheresoever the public intent of a Kirk is to worship the sacrament, every private man following that intent, is formally an idolater: if his private intent be divers from the public, yet he is still materially & interpretative an idolater.  
What they say, we say: and hear lies the difference between our opposites and us. We both, grant the public intent of a false Church, is, to have their State, Worship, and Government, approved, 
x Pag. 49▪  But here is the odds; they say, seeing their private intention, is divers from the public, they are not trespassers with the public: though in public they do the same action. We on the contrary affirm, seeing the public intent of the Church, is to honour the idol, every private man following that intent is formably an idolater: if his private intent be divers from the public, yet he is still materially and interpretative an idolater.  
Ismenias (as the same author's note) stopping down before the king of Persia, 
Ibid.  to take up a ring, which he of purpose let fall; was not excused, because this stoping in common use, was the adoring of the Kings of Persia: Let the godly reader consider of it, take advise, and speak his mind.  
2. I deny, that any man hath just cause to hear (in the way we speak of) for his edefication. For what he saith here, he produceth neither scripture nor reason, nor any authority but his own; as if his ipse dixit, like the pope's sentence were penitus definitiva, absolate difinitive and to be rested in: but to use his own words 
a justificat. separat. pag. 47. 48.  seeing he soeweth himself barren of Divine authority. I will proof what I do deny by these reasons.  
1 Whatsoever Christ hath thought fit to teach his Church & the instruments & helps whereby, that hath he fully set down in his word 
b 2 Timot. 3 16▪ 17. Act. 20. 27. joh. 20. 30. 31. 2 Pet. 1. 3. : so that to acknowledge any other means of edefication, than such as he hath appointed, is to receive another Teacher into the Church besides him, and to confess some in perfection in those means which he hath ordained for our edefication; this argument is brought against the vain traditions of Rome and England by Gualther 
c ●n Habac. fol. 270. , Lavater 
d in 1. Chron. 10. 11. , V●sinus 
e Catech. par. 3. p. 758. 760. , Polanus 
f Partit. Theol. pag. 83 191▪ , Ames 
g 〈…〉 , the authors of the Abrigement 
h 〈…〉 , and it holds every way as firm and good in our dispute.  
P. Martyr speaks 
* 〈…〉  home to this point. For as much as God▪ is most wise, he needs not our devise for instruments to stir up faith in us, which thing no tradesman in this kind would endure; but would choose to himself at his own pleasure wha● he should think most fit, etc. How bold are these 〈◊〉 who w●ll Prescribe to God after What manner and by 〈…〉 shall edify ●s. So he.  
2 Seeing our discourse 〈…〉 edefication, which Christ the only Teacher of his Church hath appointed, then is it is set down, by the apostle in Ephes: 4. 11. 12. 13. the reason is, because Paul there mentioneth all ministerial means for the perfect and complete building of the Church from the first to the last: so writ, Fenner 
i Sacr. Theol. c. 7, p. 119. , Laiton 
k Zion's p. 10. , Piscator 
l Aphorism. loc. 20. , Cartwright 
m Repl. 1. to Whitg. p. 85. , Beza 
n in Ephes. 4, 10. , Calvin 
o instit. l 4 c. 1. Sect. 5 , Polanus 
p Syntag. l. 10, & 11. , and others.  
But ● think our Opposites will not say, that Paul there intendeth this Hearing, as a means of our edification: If they should, l the Treat: would be against them, for he confesseth it is not any particular ordinance left us by Christ. Ergo. etc.  
3. As Augustine saith 
q Mori fame, quam idolothytis vesci. de bono congug. c. 16.  it is better to die with famen, then to eat with Idolothites, Daniel chose rather to live upon pulse, then to be fed, with the most delicate meats from the king's table, seeing they were such meat as he ought not to eat. For he knew (as one 
r Osiand. in Dan. 1. p. 367.  writes on the place) Not by the power of the meat, but by God's divine blessing, is the body preserved: To apply this, seeing the Hearing stood for, 
p Pag. 37.  is a spiritual eating with idolaters: and men cannot receive the food without pollution; Our best course, is to content our selus with what means of edefication, we find in God's way, be it much or little, I say not despise 
‡ Zach. 4. 10.  the day of small things: and the rather, considering, that it is not the means, but God's blessing on the means, that edefieth us.  
4: Whosoever takes to himself, a practice, which is not grounded on God's word, and therein is strict, he is just overmuch 
* D. Gouge on Ephes. 6, 14.  and presumeth 'bove that which is written: and this is their case who hear unlawful ministers for edefication.  
5. It is not true, that a man being out of the false Church, and a visible member of a true, should be furthered in the way grace, by returning thither to hear the word. Upon better ground I may say, his growth in knowledge and sincerity hereby willbe hindered, and probably he in time drawn back to his former vomit; or if he escape shipwreck this way, 
Treat. 2. par. 4, p. 78.  yet to meet with such heavy terrors of conscience, as that his time after willbe spent with grief, and his years with sighing.  
And here (christian reader) I think fit; to make known unto thee, 
Cartw. Hom. in Eccles. 7, fol. 149.  what happened about 7 years passed in England, there was a gentle man of warick sheir, by name Mr Edward Grefwold, aman very religious, as many besides myself can testify: He and I, being bosom Friends (or to use his own common saying o●hearts being as david's and jonathans', knit together) upon just cause, we both left the parish assemblies. He afterward by the means of some crafty men, was persuaded unto hearing again: upon this he fell into great trouble of spirit, and could have no feeling assurance of any peace with God: remaining thus awhile, at length he sent a letter by his servant unto me (the which I have kept a long time by me) in this letter he largely acknowledgeth his offence, and among other passages writes thus: You, ah you are happy: but I by my fall am miserable and wretched: and for the present time, I feel my soul to be no otherwise, then if it were in hell: &c, ever since I went to their Assemblies I have observed the Lords hand against me: &c, wherefore I beseech you by the mercices of God, set a day apart for me, and seek the almighty by fasting and praying, that the waterflood over flow me not: etc. what his refresh were after this, I cannot say, the report is, that to his changing, he had sad & sorrowful days: notwithstanding I am confident, that his soul is with Christ in paradise. As I am writing this, I think of the words in the Prophet 
s Psal. 119 120.  My flesh trembleth for fear of thee, and I am afraid of thy judgements. He that is wise will consider of these things: For as one 
* Hal. antiq. Rom. l. 11.  saith providing before is better than repenting afterward.  
It is no marvel that false churches by some are called Officina scelerum, & carnificina sanctorum, shops of wickedness, and chambles of the saints; for what can a tender conscience expect in frequenting them, but indeed, pricks, racks, and tortures. Aquila & Symmachus for the Hebrew Aven, which signifieth the false state under Jeroboam, render it in Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, an unprofitable house: and well they might for whosoever goes to such houses, he may be sure he shall lose by it. And this is the judgement of Botsach 
a Prompt. alleg. c. 21, de minist. , Lutz 
b In Evang; Dom. 8, post penned. p 339. , Polanus 
c In Ezech. 44▪ pag. 800. , Pelargus d, and others. And whereas some put difference between the Preachers there; as one saith e the best are the worst: 
a Quaest. Evang in Mat. 23. Motives to the king and state, Pag. 32.  For these as evil workers, secretly, and by degrees, and with as little noise as may be, seek to keep people in error and disorder.  
3. The consequence of his (therefore) conclusion, no logician can make it good: For he argueth just for all the world, as if one should say, Because I go to the assize or session for right or to school for education, therefore I cannot be challenged therein, to approve of the judge, justice, or master their state or standing: I could go on thus a tribus ad centum, for there is no end of such absurdities; the very naming whereof, is answer enough.  
But to the point, the Treat here yields the cause; For if a man shall hear in a false church for edefication; therein he approves directly of the state, For this is a sure thing (and let it be noted) no administration performed in a state, and by a power and constituted office, can be sought, 
e There are main difference between a man's bare presence in a constituted stat●; as being there, unawares, unwillingly, or by compulsion; & presence there of purpose to partake of the admistrations.  desired & received, but in so doing, the doer (Ipso facto) really approves of that state, power, and office be the same lawful or unlawful. And as for any man's saying to the contrary, it is sine capite fabula, a vision of his own head, and will prove as good as the miracles which jamnes and jambres wrought, even means to harden his own heart and some others, as they did Pharoahs' by doing them.  
Lastly where as he tells us, He hath formerly said here is no idolatrous act performed, in stead of this twice sodden Coleworth, I looked he should have alleged some Scriptures from whence this might have been gathered, or concluded at the least, or brought some convincing argument, which might have cleared it, or if none of those, yet that he would have showed some authority or author, which had so written or spoken; but here is deep silence; and we must take all (pro confesso,) upon his bare word; but by his leave, we purpose to try his novelties, and not take them upon trust.  
And howsoever I have said enough before in confutation of this, yet I will add a word more, and the rather, because not only is this a main point between us, but also here is a ground laid, for gross idolaters, to justify their evils by: For If in preaching of the truths of the Gospel in a false Church (say by a Pope, a Cardinal, an Archbishop, a Lordbishop, or any other enemy of God) no idolatry be done, then may a man worship God in a way of his own divising blameless. We have hitherto been instructed, that unto divine worship two things are required, matter and manner, First it must be a true matter of worship, grounded on the word: Secondly done in aright and lawful manner, order, form, way, etc. and if either of those be wanting, it cannot be a reasonable service; and of this judgement were Perkins, 
f Jdolat. last times, p. 674. 675. last volume.  Brinsley, 
g True watch, p 28.  Elton 
h On Colos. p. 308. , Dod, 
i On the command. 2.  Hieron, 
k On Psa. 51, pag. 4.  Bates, 
l His book against Ceremonies, p. 191.  Trailor, 
m On Tit. c. 3. v. 10. p. 715.  and others. But according to the Treat: teaching the later here, is (etrivio) of no use at all; for so a man preach the truths of the Gospel he doth no Idolatrous act; although in the mean time he exercise an antichristian office; hence this must follow: viz, so the truth be preached it is no matter whether the preacher be sent from Antichrist, or from Christ; nor whether he preach at Dan and bethel, or at jerusalem in the temple. For if the former commit no idolatrous act, he is then as blameless in his way, as the latter is in his. Better the Treat, had spared his words, and looked better to his answer, or eat them both, then to blot paper, and abuse the reader with such unsound and hurtfall assertions.   

SECT. 6.  
Our. 4. Objection is laid down for us thus: He that hears them preach, hears them as ministers of the Church of England, and as sent by the Bishops, and so in hearing them hears & receaves them that sent them: according to that of our Saviour he that hears you, hears me, and he that despiseth you, despiseth me, and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.  
It was some addition to David's 
n 1 Sam 17▪ 51.  victory over the Philistime, that he slew him with his own sword. The ta●ke is very easy, to confute all that the Treat: here writes against us, by the engine of his own acknowledgements: For to say the truth, Howsoever he frames Objections for us, yet originally they are his own, and even word for word published by himself in former books to the world: so that Obliquus cursus forgetting (as it were) What he had before held and written, he makes himself in this controversy his own greatest opposite.  
Th●t this Objection can call no man Father, so properly as the Treat; It is certain; for to my knowledge no man but himself hath used it: Indeed he hath done it, and applied into the same purpose, that he brings it here for us, that is, against the Hearing of unlawful Ministers. His words are these 
o Manumiss: to a Manuduct. pag. 9 .  
If it belong to the chief Prelates to call Ministers, & that in calling them, they give them power and authority (though no absolute charge) to preach according to the order of that Church; Then followeth it undeniably, that those Ministers thus preaching do therein exercise the Prelate's power: And that it may be said of the Ministers, & Bishops, as Christ said of his Disciples and himself, that whosoever receives them that are sent, receives them that sent them. In submitting unto, or withdrawing from him that is sent by the King in a work of his Office, men do submit unto, or withdraw from the King himself, and his authority; So it is in all estates and subordinations whether Ecclesiastical or Civil; as every one that is not dim in himself, may see by the light of nature. So writes the Treat: Now let us see how he confutes himself.  
I grant the former part of the Objection, 
Treat:  and account the denying of it a point of Familisme, seeing the Officers of public states in the executing of their offices, are to be esteemed according to the public Laws and Orders of those states, and not according to any under hand course or intention either by themselves or others.  
Answ. A man that goes with a veil before his eyes; comes now and then into his way, although he know it not. The Treat. in this walk about Hearing in false Churches, is sometimes cut, otherwhile in, he says and unsayes; But so fare as he speaks the truth, he speaks it against himself: for his answer here, it is nothing but a yielding the case, in some compass and circumlocution of words; and that the Reader may perceive it is so, I will make it obvious and clear to him by an argument or two; and first thus:  
If to hear Antichristian Ministers, be to serve God in, and by an ordinance, way, or institution, devised by idolaters, and with idolaters; Then is it unlawful.  
But the first is true, therefore the second.  
The proposition is undeniable by the Treat. own confession: For he grants that 〈◊〉 course of hearing is no ordinance left us by Christ: Then 〈◊〉 it must be from Antichrist: Again he professeth▪ they 〈…〉 as they preach, and preach as Ministers of the 〈…〉 according to the public 〈…〉 is, to speak 〈…〉 form religious worship to God, in, and by a public ordinance, way and state which idolaters have invented, and with idolaters.  
This I say (aperto pectore) he grants to the full: And no marvel, for to deny it, were an audacious fiction, monstrous unparelled presumption▪ and would mark a man out, for an Athesticall Familist, as perspicuous as the leprosy of Vzziah, which broke forth in his forehead.  
The Assumption is as manifest; For 1. by the Scriptures 
a Deu. 12. 30. Levit, 18. 3. Exo. 23. 24. Levit. 9, 27. 28. Deu. 14. 1 Levit. 19 17. Gen. 35. 2. 3. Esa, 27. 9  we are prohibited from all conformity with idolaters in any of their ways, order, and manner of worship, and Religious Observations. It was the custom 
b Herodot. in Thalia: Becan. in analog. vet. & nov. Test. c. 15.  of the Arabians and other Heathens, in imitation of Dyonisius, that is Bacchus, to round the corners of their head; Now this the Israelites might not do 
c Levit. 19 27.  (though in itself an indifferent thing 
d Calvin. in Levit. 19 17. ) because God would not have them to be like idolaters.  
This also may be further proved by the testimony of learned men; For to have any thing common with idolaters, or to serve God after any way of theirs; Or to take up, and make use of any of their rites, orders, observations, institutions for to worship God in, or by them: they hold to be unlawful. Yea howbeit a man be not in Ecclesiastical union with them. Thus have the old Fathers affirmed 
e Tertull: de Coron. Milit. Greg. lib. 1. Epist. 44. ad Leon. Theod▪ l. 1. c. 10. August. Epist. 86. ad Casul. ; So our later writers: Calvinists 
f Pareus in 1 Cor. 10▪ 14. Bucer in Mat. 18. fol. 143. Beza Tract. Theol. vol. 3. pag. 210. , Lutherans 
g Cent. 4. c. 13 col. 406. Chemn●t. Exam. Theol. Melanct. par. 2. pag. 491. , formal Protestants 
h B. jewel upon 1. Thes. 5. p. 219. Sulclief. Chal. pag. 62.  in England, Reformists 
i Perth. assemb. p. 55. 56. Alt. Damas'. p. 539.  Papists 
k Bellar. de Monach. c. 40. & de effect. sacr. l. 2. c. 31. Sect. 10. Rhemist. annot. on 1. Cor. 6. 14. & 1. Timot. 6. Sect. 4. in Apoc. 1. 10. , and Schoolmen 
l Aquin. 1. 2 a. q. 102. Art. 6. c. 6. m. , yea many jew-doctors 
m See Mr. Ainsworth in Levit. 19 27. , some Councils 
n Toledo Can. 5. & 40. Laod. c. 38. Brac. Can. 32. & 73. , have thus concluded, and the Cannon-Law 
o Dear. Par. 2. Caus. 26. quaest. 7. c. 13. etc. 14. etc. 17.  speaks so too.  
And here I desire the Reader to observe, that were the grounds true which he lays down for hearing: to wit, that there is no Religious Communion between the persons preaching and hearing; They cannot be challenged to approve of the Ministers state or standing: They have no communion with the office of the Ministry, etc. I say, were these things so, (which are not) yet would this practice be found sinful; because (as we have before shown) herein men worship God in, or by a way and means, which idolaters have instituted.  
Our second argument is taken from the Treat. words following, which are these: 
Treat.  I profess I hear them, as Ministers of the Bb. sending, and of the Parishes sent 〈◊〉. Hence I argue thus:  
He that hears the Ministers of the Bb. sending, and of the Parishes sent too: he hears (in the sense of the Scriptures) false Prophets: But it is not lawful to hear false Prophets:  
Therefore it is not lawful to hear the Ministers of the Bb▪ sending, or of the Parishes sent too.  
The Major is proved clearly in the defence of our 12. Objection. The Minor is certain by these reasons.  
1. The hearing of false Prophets is forbidden in the Word of God 
a Ex. 20. 5. Pro. 5. 8. Mat. 7 15. Philip. 3. 2. 1. Timot. 5. 22. . 2. The practice of it is will-worshipp 
b Joh. 4. 23. Rom. 12. 1. 2. Mat. 15. 9▪ Col. 2. 23 ; the which is unacceptable to God. 3. It is to rebel against the Lord, and to seek what is in man, to uphold that thing which the Lord will cast down and consume. 
c Num. 16. 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. Rev. 18. 1. 2. 1 Sam. 15. 22.  4. This is to embrace the bosom of a stranger, & so to commit spiritual whoredom against the Lord 
d Pro. 5. 20. Psal. 106. 39 . 5. It defileth the name of God 
e Ezech. 43. 7. 8. . 6. This is to hold conformity with idolaters, and to be like them; The which thing ought not to be 
f Levit. 18. 3. and 19 19 27. 28. Exo. 23. 24. Deu. 12. 30. 32. . 7. It shows that a man is not one of Christ sheep, but carnal and unconverted 
g joh. 10. 4. Esa. 30. 22, & 27. 9 . 8. It manifesteth great want of the love and zeal of God 
h 2 King. 23. 4. Rev. 2. 3. 4. Psal. 119. 128. joh. 2. 16. . 9 It is to serve Satan and Antichrist; as it is written: His servants ye are whom ye obey 
i 2 Chro. 11, 14. Rev. 9 20. .  
10. It defiles the soul 
k Eze. 20▪ 7  Lastly, the doer hereby is exposed, to the wrath of God 
l Re. 144. 2. Thes. 2. 8, 10. .  
Thus the Treat: like the Bee is drowned in his own Honey; And truly pity it is, but all pleaders for Baal were always thus entangled in their own words, 
Rev. 14▪ 9 Eze. 16. 54.  according to that in Ovid.  
Non est lex iustior ulla  
Quam necis artifices arte peri●e sua.  
The Treat. 
Lib. 2. de arte amand.  speaks on thus: But not as my Ministers, either sending, 
Treat:  or sent to, except I be of those Parishes, or at least in Ecclesiastical Union with them.  
Answ. A man bend to declining, is glad of every colour which he may pretend to justify himselve in declining; It is a poor distinction, which he useth here to decline the point in question: For 1. what use was there to tell us, He bears them not as his Ministers; This well might have been spared, and something said, to warrant by Scripture the hearing of them at all. If a woman be accused of adultery, and to excuse herself, shall suy: The adulterer is in no covenant or band with me. Is this enough to clear her? No. I have proved before, that all religious performances in false Churches, are idolatrous actions; Now then to worship God there, & for excuse to say, we are not in Ecclesiastical union with the state or Ministry; I may well say (lingua quo vadit) it is idly spoken; and much like the Friar's plea, we are exempted Lord.  
Again, for his distinction, it is the same which Papists, and others allege, to justify there idol-Ceremonies; They say, how soever these are things, which jews & Pagans did be o'er them, yet their end and respect in doing them, is different. What is said of some, in answer thereunto, I may here say the like: To practise that thing in God's worship, which neither directly nor consequently is included in the word, is an open breach of God's Law, be the doers meaning this or that.  
What jealous or wife husband, if his wife should receive some love-tokens from a known adulterer & one that goes about to undermine her honesty; would take it for a sufficient excuse, if she should say, I receive indeed such things from a known adulterer, and as he is an adulterer, but not wine etc. The weight of the Treat: distinction, lies between meum & tuum; He pro●esseth to receive love-guifts from spiritual adulterers and as they are so, but not his.  
Now I marvel how his pen could drop such poison, and he not smell the stink of it When he wrote it. I wish all men in all places, to take heed, that they deceive not their own souls by such foolish distinctions: for if such things will not stand before sor-ry-man: how then before the great God, Who is a jealous husband, and a consuming fire.  
Now let us hear what follows in the Treat: 
Treat.  By hearing and receiving there, Christ means properly the harkening too, believing & obeying the doctrine taught by the Apostles, which many despised, unto whom he opposeth the former that heard it.  
Answ: He that comes to the field without his weapon it is an argument, he means to save himself by flying, and not by fight. Whether the Treat: had on any armour to fight with against this objection. I will not determine, but this I say (and will abide by it) he flies away from the point, and speaks nothing either for it, or against it: For 1. Were his distinction granted, between hearing them as BB: Ministers, and not as his. And again that by receiving the Apostles, Christ means properly hearking to, and obeying their doctrines. I say suppose this (but I grant it not) yet doth not this take a way the weight of our reason, nor in truth so much as touch it.  
I shall expect that he who comes nex to the field, in the behalf of Antichristian Ministers, do prepare a better Answer to this objection. And that he may know, what he hath to confute, I will a little enlarge the point.  
1. The Treat. in applying hearing & receiving to the doctrines of the Apostles, doth not well; For the first only respects their teaching, the latter their persons; This is evident in the Text Mat. 10. 14. whosoever shall not receive you, and hea●e my words etc. Implying that Christ is two ways received, in the ministry of the Gospel; viz. In the person of the Teacher, and in the doctrines taught by him. And thus do out best Expositors understand the place. calvin, Pareus, Piscator, Aretius, Musculus.  
It is further to be noted, where Christ sayh▪ he that receiveth you, receiveth me etc. His meaning is that such as hearken to, and obey the doctrines of his Ministers, therein do acknowledge his authority, power & kingly office over his Church, to appoint her laws, 
I mean in a work of their office.  offices, ordinances; etc. and also the father's donation or the delivering up of the same into his son's hand.  
To apply this; As they who harken unto Christ's ministers; do therein approve of his lawful power over his Church, & of the father's gift this way to him; so contrariwise, such as hearken * to Antichrists Ministers, do therein approve of Antichrists unlawful power over the false Church, and the devil's 
‡ Satan is the author of false ministries in the apostasy of the man of sin.  donation; or his putting of that power into his eldest sons hands. If any say we intent not so, I answer (Res ipsa aliud ostendit) the action which they do is so. quid verba audiam cum factae videam. And here that saying of a learned (a) man is fulfulled: There are some▪ which deny that they worship Idols, 
T. C. Repl 1. p. 88 & 204.  when in the mean time their own doings chargeth them with it: Now there are too many in those days grossly guilty this way.  
His next words are, 
Lavat. in Iosh. 22. Hom. 61. Treat.  The Minissters in the Parishes, have not the doctrines of the Gospel from the Bishops as they have their offices, but from God in his word.  
Answ. It was a law 
b Eugin. Boron. jure consult. l. 1. p. 120.  among the Romans, that whosoever passed not into their City at the gates, but attempted to break throw the walls, or to climb over them, should be put to death. The Treat. in pressing the hearing of the truths of the Gospel, would persuade us, so we do receive them, it is no matter whether it be by order or disorder, whether from the Ministers; of Christ or Antichrist. Whether in a true Church, or in a false. But this counsel we cannot take, because to our knowledge, there is a divine statute in force against it: & therefore as we must 
c T. C. Repl. 1. p 155.  care for the truth, so must we care of whom we have it: & he gives this reason. 
d Ibid. p. 83.  As God hath ordained that the truth should be preached, so also hath he ordained in what order, and by whom it should be preached. We may not therefore adventure 
e Penry Exhort. to the govern. of Wales pag. 46.  to go unto him for those, things, which he hath no commission to deliver.  
Suppose Carah or some other in that Conspirasy, should have said thus: Come to us ye men of Israel, and hearken to; believe and Obey the truths taught in our Tents. If you object that our Calling is anti-Mosaicall and false: we answer, this cannot be any bar or let in the thing, seeing the doctrines we teach are from God in his law.  
I cannot see according to the Treat. arguing, how in such a case they could have stayed without: for if we may go into the Synagogues of Antichrist; so the Doctrines of the Gospel be there preached? I would know then of our Opposites, why an Israelite upon the same ground (viz. to hear the Doctrines of the law) might not have gone with them rebels into their Tents. I believe if we come to open terms, these will be found to be par pari things alike, and the one as lawful as the other, & both stark naught.  
But to come more nearer to the point, the thing which the Treat, harps most upon, is, that they teach the truth: And our opposites use this as their special and main position viz. Where the truth is taught, there they may lawfully hear. To discover their follow herein. I pray let it be minded what was said before, As the hearing in question, is a religious action, so to have it lawful and good, the circumstances pertaining to it, must necessarily be observed, of which circumstances the truth taught, is only one particular. It is a received maxim both in divinity and Philosophy, that circumstances make actions formally good or bad, so writ Junius 
f De pol. , Aquinas 
g 1a. 2 a. q. 8. Art: 3▪ , Camerius 
h Praelect▪ Tom. 2. p. 49. , and Burgess 
i of the lawfulness of kneeling C. 1.  confesseth they are intrinsical and essential to actions, and especially making up there nature. Fed: Morellus upon these words of Seneca, 
k Scho. 2. Lib.  refert quid, cui, quando, quare, saith that without these circumstances of things, persons, time, place etc. facti ratio non constat. Friar Ambrose Caturinus 
l Counc. l. 2 p. 224.  following the doctrine of Thomas, meanteyneth in the counsel of Trent, that to do a-good work the concurrence of all circumstances is necessary.  
What these circumstances or parts are, is showed in that old vers. Quis, quid, ubi, quibus auxilijs, cur, quomodo, quando. And to apply them to our point, howsoever it be granted, that their teaching may be without vitium rei, yet in it there is vitium perfonae, loci, ordinis, relationis, &c as the. Tr●. 
* in aletter to D. Ames published in Brownists schis.  phraseth it else where.  
1. The Person designed is not lawfully called: now a false Office and a true worship (are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) they are no way compatible. 2. As it respects the place, (that is the Idoll-Churchstate) so it is to worship God there, where he hath forbidden men to worship him. 3. For the instruments and means, in this men make themselves beholding to Antichrist, for his order, constitution, manner and way to serve God in, and by. Now fie for shame, that any should be so base, as to scrape acquentance with that Babylonian whore, who is the greatest enemy that the Lord hath upon the earth. I● is a most certain ●igne (saith one 
m Estque merae proditionis certissimum indicium si quis aliquen ex suis, videat, concilia clam cum hoste captantem aut in eius aurem insu●ure antem.  of a very traitor, when a man shall see one of his own, take secret counsel with his enemy, & whisper him in the ear.  
Touching the other circumstances: viz. why, how, when: these all are also here wanting, as I could instance in sundry particulars, if need were. But to wind up all, & bring all the former into some fewer heads. the goodness or badness of divine worship, is to be considered either in actu signato and quo ad specium: or in actu exercito and quo ad individium. Divine worship is said to be speciated by its object, and individuated, by its circumstances: when divine worship is good or evil, in respect. of the object of it. we say it is good or evil, quo ad speciem. when in respect of the circumstances, we term it good or evil quo ad invidium. 
Cartewr. kissed. ch. l. 1. p. 253.  Now I will not deny, but this hearing worship quo ad specium, as God is made the object of it, so it is right: but quo ad invidium, as it hath circumstances and parts, so it is a false worship: and this is so clear a truth as no man will deny it unless the denier will deny all religion and reason, all sense ' and scinence. It is not sufficient (saith Rivetus 
n Comment, in Host, 4, 14, p, 152,  unto them true wor' ship of God, that a man errs not in the object which he ought to worship, that is, if he propose to himself to worship the true God, but also that, that manner be exactly kept, which God hath prascriin his law: from the tenor or rule whereof whosoever in the least departeth the same cannot be held lawful.  
He ends thus: 
Treat.  And so fare forth as a man hears, that is bearken too, & recives them by receiving it, he so fare bearkens too & receives Christ. 
〈…〉   
Answ. This is spoken gratis, and without any foundation, and therefore not more easily avouched then rejected. But say we grant that So fare forth Christ is harkened too, etc. yet doth not this hinder but So fare forth as he hears in an Antichristitian assembly and a false officer, 
〈…〉  and performs a religious worship in away and manner which Idolaters have divised, etc. I say let his (so fare) stand, yet in these respects and consideration, He so fare forth hearkens too and receives Antichrist.  
If I should put over the Treat, reasoning in spiriturl things, to things civil and worldly: the very expression of them, would make them odious: For suppose aman should use the help of a known sorcerer, to recover some lost gold or silver; & being afterward reproved for it, would reply, Seeing they were good things & from God, he did well therefore to get them in the way & manner that he took. Or if a thief offering certain stolen goods, should persuade another to receive them, because howsoever he hath no right to give such things away, yet seeing they are good, and from God, he may take them safely: for it is all one, whether they are received in away of falsehood & theift, or by the jeave and grant of the true owner,  
If these things appear vile and absurd, no otherwise is his reasoning here, if it be with the eye of judgement looked upon: the Priests for whom he pleads, in the Scriptures are said to be robbers and thiefs, yea Spiritual sorcery is charged upon them. But all this with the Treat. is nothing; For so they deliver good things, the same may be received from them in a work of their office. But if a man stood before an earthly judge, accused of using a forcerers assistance to recover his lost mony● or for receiving goods from a known these, it would not free him to say, the things are good which I took. Neither will it excuse men when they shall appear before the judgement seat of Christ, to say it was the truth which they heard, though not in the way and order, which the word taught them.  
Be not deceived God is not mocked: 
Gal. 6, 7.  for whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap.   

SECT. 7.  
NOw we come to the 5 Objection, the which is laid down for us, by the Treat. thus: Yet such as hear them, have communion with their office of Ministry, what in them lies.  
It is the manner of some to set up marks, and afterwards to show their art, in shooting of them down again. One would think that the Treat. former writings against the hearing of false Ministers, were written by him, to be (as it were) his But mark, that thereby he might show his skill and wit in striking down the same afterwards. Touching the objection which he here frames for us, & undertakes the confutation of; It is his own, and under his own hand, even word for word published to the world, and in defence of the same thing which he brings it here for us: as the Reader may see in his manumissi on to a manuduction: pag. 5.  
But to let this pass, hoping it was rather a slip in his pen, than a downfall in his judgement: Let us see now how he hits the mark, his answer to it is thus.  
That is, they have no communion at all with it, if it lie not in them to have any, as it doth not. If I hold up my hand as high as I can, I touch heaven with my finger, what in me lies, do I therefore at all touch it: if such think to have, or that they have any such communion, it is their error and Ignorance, but makes not the thing to be the more than if they thought not so.  
This is all his answer (a capite usque ad pedes) from head to foot. Unto the which I answer: 1. To his peremptory affirmation, (they have no communion at all) may apply the saying fathered on the old Philosopher multa dicti●sed pauca probat. I'll speaks much, but proves little: For our parts (as I have said) we cannot take his bare saying, de iure et de fide, to be a rule of faith to us, For our consciences are not (like Sampsons' shoulders) strong enough to bear it,  
2. He dallies & deceives by a general & ambigious term of Communion: If it be intended in the order & way of Church-state, it is true then here is no such communion, as have members gathered into a body politic. But if by the word we understand such a communion, as makes the hearer really partaker of the sin of the Officer; in this sense here is a communion of fellowship. For 1. Hereby is allowance and approbation given unto a work of darkness; I say his very presence there to hear, is an open countenancing of an unlawful officer in an unrghtteous course, tanquam legimae et sacrae actionis approbatio. As Davenat. 
a deter● Quaest. 7. p 40.  Slater 
b Explic. Anal: in 1 Cor. C. 2 p. 92.  and others note in the like case.  
2. It is apparent to a right discerning eye, that the ministers of Antichrist, in all acts of their ministry, do use such ways and inventions in worshipping of God, as are not commanded of God in his word, but be devises of men. Now whosoever joins with them in the practice of such worship, becomes a partaker of their sin and trangression. Of this writes joan. David. 
c Veridicus Christian. c, 28, p, 7.  And the reason is, because he commits will-worship: for what is well-worship? but to worship God not after his appointment, but our own. And hence was Ahaz an Idolater, eo ipso, for that as P. Martyr 
d Comment: in 2 Reg, ●, 17  notes, he took the pattern of an Altar from Idolaters to serve the true God, with it & by it.  
3. When Israel did eat with the Moabites, they did communicate 
e Ainsw; Annot, on Numb, 25, 2,  with them: but how was it? it was in that the meat there given and taken, was in a public way of a false institution. This holds proportionably true here: for we cannot separate the false state of the office, from the administrations done by virtue of it, that is to make the latter so ours, as not to be polluted in one respect or other with the foulness of the former. Zanchie 
f Quicunque facris ali cuius comunicat, is particeps quoque; sic ejus, ad cujus c ●emmuni onemha bendam et conferuandam sacra illa sunt ordinata. de vitio, ext. cults. Opp. l. 1. Thes 11.  clears this very well. Whosoever communicateh in the holy things of another, he is made partaker with him, for whose communion the holy things ordained, are kept & observed.  
3. For his comparison, it is so fare fetch, as that it comes not home to the matter, but is an evil and idle wand'ring from it. When Saul fought to excuse himself, he was demanded of Samuel, 
e 1 Sam. 15.  quid ergo sin vult vox pecuduin astarum, what meaneth then the bleating of the sheep in my ears: we may ask the like of those men, who say it is no sin to hear in false Churches. what means your uncovering the head and bowing the knee before idol? your keeping company with Idolaters in their public worship? your observing the time and coming to the place of their worship? your serving of God in such a way? is bring it to the text of the word, compare it with the example of the Prophets, Christ & his Apostles, bring it to the practice of the primitive Churches: it is quite differing from it.  
we are sure in a true Church, the bending of the knee 
‡ Psalm 95. 6. , & other signs of reverence, is to give honour and countenance to that state. Now the reason of contraries is a like, and therefore as Calvin 
f Comment. in 1 Corin. 15.  saith, the same being done in a false Church, is no less allowance and approbation of it: I say again every reverend submissive gesture, 
* Deut. 5 9 hos. 13. 12 Eze 18 6. 1 Cor. 10. 16. 18.  as bowing down, kneeling, prostrating, lifting up of the eyes, and all other like lowly and lovely behaviour do appertain and lead to Idolatry.  
Again if the Ordinances of God, do associate and join the the faithful with God, than the observation of superstitious institutions must needs link men to the society of Idols, and so reasoneth the said Calvin 
g Ibid. 2. 17.  And for any to say, they do not countenance such Churches and Ministeries, or they will not; herein their acts give their tongue the lie, for we are not to judge of a work, 
h Non exarcana intentione operantis, sed ex manifesta conditione operis. Davan. Quaest. Determ. pag 40.  by the secret intention of the doer, but by the outward condition of the work itself. For what Augustine 
i Eo damnabilius agit, quia quod mendaciter agit, sic agit tamen, ut eum populus veraciter agere existimet. De Civit. 16, C. 10.  blames Senica the Philosopher, may be said and truly applied to these men, in this he did the more wickedly because what he did, he did lyingly, for he did it so, as that the people though he did it truly. If the Corinthians sinned, when they sat down at the Idols table, because they kept them company whose end was superstitious, than it follows questio●●●, that where the public end of a people is to commit will, worship, whosoever hath any fellowship with them, is partaker of the same ungodliness. Now no man I dare say, will affirm, that the public end and intention of the people, is not to allow, honour, and reverence, their false Church, ministry, Government &c, therefore howsoever some particulars, intent not so, yet joining with such, as so profess and practice, they are guilty 
* Society in sin bringeth fellowship in wrath. Forbes Com. in Rev. 18. pa 189.  of the same sin, though I will not say in measure & degree a like.  
4. Howsoever the comparison here brought, proves nothing: yet so much there is in it, as it overthrows the cause he stands for. For be it granted, that a man holding up his hand as high as he can, doth not touch heaven materially, yet understanding it in another way or sense, he may be said, and that truly to do it. 
‡ I desire our opposites to speak here sincerely as of God, in the sight of God, whether a man be less bound to make use of any institution of Antichrist, in divine worship: then bound, to join with a Harlot in any practice of her uncleanness.  As for example: suppose a man with a lustful desire, put forth his hand after a woman who is locked up, & so out of his reach, doth he not touch her? yes saith Christ, and hath committed adultery with her 
k Mat. 5 28.  Again say he covet his neighbour's money, and lift up his hand as high as he can after it: doth he not touch it, though the same be out of his reach? yes saith God, for he breaks the tenth commandment 
l Exod. 20. 7.  In short, imagine, a man treacherously minded, stretch forth his hand after the Prince, doth the not touch him, albeit the other be out of his reach? indeed God's law and man's law too, so concludeth. Hence than I conclude thus;  
Whosoever lusteth after aspirituall harlot, committeth with her spiritual adultery. But such as hear the word in false Churches do so: Ergo, etc.  
The later part of the argument, which is only doubtful, is proved by opening and applying the similitude thus. As they commit carnal whoredom, who have fellowship with harlots in any degree; kind, or Practice of their whoredoms: so in this cause, it must needs be spiritual adultery, to hear the word in the way and manner we despute of: because it is to have a fellowship or society with the great whoorantichrist: I say it is to go all along with him in some acts, orders, and devices of his spiritual whoredoms. And what I here lay down, is laid down by the best learned in all ages, viz. that we must go out from idolaters, as not to be beholding to them, for any of their rites, or dear, institutions: neither serve the Lord in, or by any helps, means, furtherances of their sinful devices, for to do otherwise, is to commit spiritual adultery with them: so writ Agustine 
m Confess, lib 6, c. 2. , Haeimo 
n Comment. 1. Corin, c. 10. v, 17. , Calvin 
o Serm. on Levit. 19 27, p. 207. , Bucer 
p In censu●a c 9, fol. 4. 71, , Martyr 
q Comment. on judge c. 2 v 3. , Polanus 
r Comment in Eze c 12 p 229 , Pareus 
s Comment. in Hos c. 2. 16, 17. , Zanchus 
t Comment, in Host c. 16, 17. , Ainsworth 
u Arrow against Idolat. c 2, p 8 , jacob 
x Expofit; on comm 2. , Marburie 
y Catech. on comm 2 , Bilson 
z Answ. to the Apol. of the semin. p, 22. jesuitism par, 2, p, 515. , D. Humphrey (a) and others.,  
5. If a man's cause should be judged, only as his adversary lays it down, it would be a great prejudice and loss to him. might we have liberty to speak in our own cause, we would bring in more exceptions against their delectable thing 
b Isa. 44, 9 , than the state of the officer, albeit the Treat, speaks but little else for us.  
For 1. In this kind of hearing, men undertake to do an impossible thing that is to serve two Masters, viz Christ and Antichrist, and each opposite to other, and requiring divers and contrary service at on and the same time 
c se a book entitled a light for the ignorant or the 3. estates.  for the first commands that the doctrines of the Gospel be heard in a true Church, and Taught by a lawful minister, and forbids the contrary, the later prohibiteth what the former requireth, and requires that the word he heard, in a false Church, and taught by an unlawful minister. Now whether it be right in the sight of God to obey Christ rather then Antichrist judge ye. 
d Acts 4, 19   
2. This is not only to symbolize with Idolaters, and to give special honour to Antichrist, as we have before proved: but also a reviving of an error held by certain old Heretics, as the Nicolaitans, 
e Irenaen: l; 1; c. 27, Euseb: l: 3, c, 29.  Bisilides 
f Cent, c, 5, p, 77. , Helchesaits 
g Cent, 3, c, 4, p, 98.  Priscillanists 
h Cent, 4, c, 5, p, 403. , etc. condemned inscripture, & by the fathers which lived in them times. Their error was, that Christians in worshipping of God, might outwardly conform themselvs unto the practice of such ways & means as Idolaters had divised, yet so, as they did inwardly & secretly dislike of the intentió & ends, which the others had in the observation & use of them. Our opposites are here (manium inania consilium) in judgement alike corrupt with them. For though they daub it over with more artificial cunning, to make their, delusion the stronger, yet for their principles & main grounds (aspis a vipera) they are all one and alike, as I shall make it good whensoever any of them gives me occasion to reply.  
3. It is such an act of religion as the paltre pedigree of it, is only grounded upon the wit and will of man, void of all scripture, yea indeed all show thereof, & therefore by learned rightly termed a mocking of God 
i Luther in Amos c, 7 p. 134 , gross superstition 
k Lavarat in los. 22. , great rebellion 
l P. Mart in 1 Sam. 15. , & witchcraft.  
4. 
n ibid. 2128.  It is so vile a thing as our blessed Martyrs, would rather give their bodies to the fire then do it. witness, Thomas Reed 
m Acts & Monum, pag; 2197 , & his wife and daughter, Ralph Allerton 
o bid 2●08: , john Fetty 
p ibid. 2256. , john Moyes 
q ibid. 2217: , John Hallingdale 
r ibid. 2222. , Joan Wast 
s ibid. 2134. , Thomas Whut ●ll 
t ibid. 2029: , I fabell Foster 
u ibid. 2030.  john Cavil 
x ibid. 2074. , Thomas Spicer 
y ibid. 2092.  Thomas Ha●land 
a ibid. 2099. , john Rough 
b ibid. 2226. , Roger Barnard 
c ibid. 2098: , Adam Foster 
d ibid. 2099. , Robert Lawson e, John Careless 
f ibid. 2114. , Alice Benden 
g ibid. 2167. , Thomas Harding 
h ibid. 1117; , William Tims 
i ibid. 2078. , mother Sem●n & her Soane 
k ibid. 2234: , Angel's wife 
l ibid. 2299. , & many more. If any should object but these went not to the Church because of the Mass: I answer; 1. they refused to go thither at all. 2. many of them shown their dislike against this Hearing in particular, and suffered for it grievous persecution, as the Reader may see in the places quoted.  
5. By this means men break their vow which they have vowed unto God: Among other vows under the Law, the jews had one which they named Cherem * that is of the curse, a word derived of Charam, to waste, destroy, kill etc. and it implied that such a thing, was separated and quite set of, and so a great sin, either to-touch it, or put it to any use afterwards, Such a Vow do all the faithful make, when leaving Babylon, they plant their feet in the pleasant ways of Zion. Their promise then is, not to touch the unclean thing any more, but utterly to forsake all the orders, customs, institutions ways and worship of antichristisme, and to practise entirely and only, 
i ibid. 2099. , both for matter & 
† See P. Mart, Comment, in judge, c, 1; v; 17. 18. m 1 Cor. 10 14, Esa: 2. 18. 20.  manner whatsoever the Lord their God commandeth: Therefore in going back to make use again, of any of her constitutions, and divised means, whereby to worship God: in this men certainly foresweare themselves, and so are guilty of fearful perjury before the Lord.  
6 It is a worship before Idols, and mark it, not accidentally but purposely present before them: and such Idols, as have a religious state in the worship: And to do this, is against the clear tax of Scripture. 
n Exo 20 5. 1. Cor. 10. 20. Psa. 106. 37.   
And as Pareus 
o comment. in Hos●. 8 p 529.  saith, is a post a sie from God, great Idolatry, very scandalous in itself, ahorible abomination in the Lord's sight, and the end of it, causeth death and wrath eternally. Rivetus, 
p còment. in Hos. c. 4, p. 151.  writing of the same thing, adds thus: Howsoever such worshippers have their minds void of superstition and intent to serve only the true God, yet in truth (saith he) this they do not, but worship and serve the Devil. Ainsworth 
q Annot. in Exod. 20. 5.  & Cartwright, 
r Histo. Christ. lib. 1. pa. 140.  say the same.  
7. In this men cast themselves upon temptations, 
s P. Mart loc. come. clas. 2, c. 4 p. 209. Art, in Mat. 4, 7, p. 155  and provoke the Lord so to wrath, as justly he may give them up to satan & Antichrist, for to blind them and harden their hearts.  
8. A tender conscience by it willbe wounded, & afterwards tanckle inwardly as a thorn in the heel: in that it leads men to equivocation, dissimulation, reservation, and in a kind to a denial of Christ, & to condemn themselves in the things which they approve of. David's heart smote him for a little. 
† See before in M. Gres moulds cause.   
9 It gives just cause of offence 
t Melan. in Evang fest, mich▪ p. 552.  unto the brethren weak & strong, and lies as a stumbling block in their way to hinder the due practice of God's ordinances.  
10. By it Idolaters are caused to shut their eyes and harden 
u Cornel. a lapide in Epist. Ich. Secun p. 505.  their hearts against the truth: and so consequently held the longer and stronger in the snare of the Devil.  
11. It is for nature and kind the sin of the high places: For wherein did the Isralites offend that way. But because (as Rivetus, 
w quod fi bi adoratio nis loca arbitrio delegerint in Hos. 4. p. 146.  saith) of their own accord, they made choice of them places for divine worship. junius 
x Annot. levit, 17, 7.  saith so too: when they sacrificed in ALIO LOCO in any other place then the Lord had prescribed, it was offered to D●vils. I will not here dispute of the material place, I mean their temples of wood and stone, whether Christians in them may lawfully perform public worship: But this I do affirm, and will stand to it, that it is every way as evil to bring our spiritual offerings unto an Idoll●state, and there in it, by it, or with it, to present the same unto God, as it was unlawful for the jews under the law, to offer in the places before named: some say, 
a Lyran. comment. in Amo. 5 27.  the former is much worse, because the same was never warrantable, whereas the other sometime was, as we have else where noted. pag. 18. 19  
12. To conclude this practice takes away the cross of Christ & persecution for righteousness. It decks an adulterer with the spoil of the spouse of Christ. It makes schism in the Church in that men break the order, and bounds which God hath set in it. 
b Melan, in Evan dom. 4. Advent. p 94.  Makes way for greater evils as apostasy from God, sliding back to great ungodliness, 
c Pare. in Hos. 8. p. 592.  and to be corrupted in the substance of religion and purity of Doctrine. And what shall I say more. It gratifies the jesuits in commending 
d Maffeus' In vita Ignat Laiola.  blind obedience. and argues great presumption & pride of heart, as if man were wiser than God, & could devise either some better means, or some other way for his edefication, than the Lord hath prescribed 
e D. Willet Comment. in 1 Sam. 15. 23.   
I do not know what engine of wit and art some men have, to elude these reasons, and to batter them so down, as to make a safe passage through for a good conscience; For my part I confess such do go bejoynd my line and measure of faith, I dare not bewise above that which is written, it is enough for me to know and believe, that in this point we have the word of God with us and for us.   

SECT. 8.  
Our six Objection, 
Object. 6.  as he lays it down for us is thus. If there be no communion at all between the Teacher and taught, what profit then cometh by such hearing.  
To this his answer is. 
Treat.  The Church Officer feeds the stock of Christ over which he is set, as the object of his ministry. Such as come in, (being not in Church union therewith) hears him so doing as a slander by hears me talk or dispute with another, &c, Here is communion only in the effects of the truths taught. It were usurpation in any to partake in a Church previleidge (which the office of ministry is) that were not in Church state first, & so if hearing imported Church Communion none but in Church members might lawfully hear.  
The Treat. answers, are much like to one that turns himself many times about, but moves not out of the place. All that he saith is (Homoeologia) one thing often said over and over. That is a change of the state of the question, which is not about Church-communion, but whether a believer, when he hears a false minister in a work of his office, do such an action as can be proved lawful by the word of God. Now to this (which is the main 
* Sacra scriptura tota vera, necessaria sufficiens viatori consequen dum finem suum: nec est dubia via salutis. Harum etiam explicatio & quantum adcreden da, & quam tum ad speranda, et quantum ad operanda ex plicatur, ex diversis scripturae locis. Scotus in 1. sent. quaest.  thing) we find nothing in the Treatise, but much paper blotted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 about questions and strifes of words, which are indeed vain and unprofitable, & and whereof cometh envy, strife, evil surmisings, rather than edifying which is in faith so to do.  
If I should say nothing to this, some would say there were some thing in it. Therefore I answer. 1. It is a false kind of reasoning (which Logicians condemn under the term, non causae ut causae) when a thing is spoken either with limitation or without, to conclude more than the proemisses: this fault the Trea. commits here; For he would persuade us, that because the Church-officer & his flock are relatives, therefore no man, not in Church union hath relation to his office. 
a M. Const. Cnrin. Metaph. l. 2. c. 1. R. Goclen. in cōtr●v. log. p. 1, c. 18, Seal. c 93, de cause. Lat.  But we are not altogether such novices, but know a little how to distinguish Sophestrie from Philosophy.  
Touching Relation, the same may be considered, 1. in ordinatione, 2. in applicatione. For the first, which is a Relation by order, or coniunctione, that is, relatio per se, as Logicians 
b Fonsec. 5. Metaphy. c. 18 Quoest. 2, Sect. 3. Timpl. Metap. l. 4.  Phrase it; Here now I grant in this kind of Relation no man hath relation to the office of the Teacher, that is not in Church-communion therewith. But for the second, which is, relatio imperfecta, or per accidens; Here I affirm that in this kind: The Hearer, howbeit not in Church-estate, yet hath relation, to the Office of the Teacher, and so far forth is the object of his Ministry.  
Aristotle 
c Meta. l. 5, c. 5.  speaking of sundry ways of Relations unto persons and things, sets down these particulars: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. So then, to go where unlawful Ministers teach, observe the time, harken to their Doctrine, show the like outward submissive gestures and reverence that others do, perform divine worship there with them, and among them: This is to have relation to the idol-state, both of Church and Ministry, if the Philosopher speak truly.  
Again, consider a relation in the parts thereof. 1. Here is subjectum, viz. Hearing. 2. Fundamentum, i. e. a false-state. 3. Terminus, viz. superstition (but our Opposites name it edification) 4. Relatum, to weet, the speaker. 5. Correlatum, viz. the Hearer.  
And howsoever, it may be said, that in respect of Church-union the Relation, here is properly in the two later, that is, between the Church-officer and his Flock; notwithstanding this cannot be denied: But for the other kind and way of Hearing, albeit it be not the Relation, yet it is in Relation, and belongs really to the predicament or matter of the Relation.  
I am sorry, that I am constrained to speak so often of Philosophy, but indeed I can do no less, considering, that leaving the Word of God, he seeks to lead men a stray, by abstruse and ambiguous distinctions, strange and wrapping words: Now, howsoever this may puzzle the understanding of some people, as not able to apprehend the strong delusion, yet the truth is, let them be brought to the rules and grounds of true Philosophy, 
d Vera Philosophia cum S. Theologia nusquam pugnat: & quoth in Theologia verum est, etiam in Philosophia; & contra. Keckerm. disput. Philos. p. 5  they are as unable to be defended by art and reason this way, as by the Seriptures. Notwithstanding I do desire the person, whosoever he shallbe that undertakes the cause here against me, to prove what he saith by divine authority; For I would willingly deal with him by that book alone, as by the book of all truth; Nay, I require Scripture, for without it, I shall believe nothing, though he bring whole Cartloads of such carnal caviling devises. But to proceed.  
2. To apply the hearing in question, to a slander by, that hears a man to speak occasionally, and in a private way: Here again, as in all the rest, he takes his scope without orb or order; For where things are done, ex mero alterius obsequio, by a power & institution, there can be no participation in the administrations thereof, 
e M. Const. Cnirim. Metaph. l. 2. c. 1  but it is a submission to the power, whether it be true or false. By such a gloze, the Corinthians might finely have put of Paul's reproof: Seeing we are not in union with them, we can at their sacrifice only as standers by, and in a private way: and so have no relation to the idol. But such a shift would not serve their turn; For whatsoever they did, it was to be determined, and reputed, according to the public acts, and not as themselves vainly fantised: So 
f comment: in 1 Sam. c. 27 v. 4  Martyr, Chytraeus, 
‡ De Eucharist. p. 216  and others.  
The time was, when the Treat. thought that there was use 
g Preface before religious Commun.  of a distinction of Religious actions, into personal and Church-actions; & how he understood it, he shows afterwards: 
h Treat. of private Communion, pag. 10  in private I communicate only with the presons and personal graces of holy men; in public I communicate with their Church-state and order, as also with the public Ministry, and in, and with it with the Prelacy, whence it is.  
The truth here, is never the worse nor less, howsoever he left it, for he that joins in the exercise and practice of public actions, he must necessarily join himself tun the State, Order, Ministry, etc. in which, and by which the same are performed.  
3. In this answer he plainly confutes himself: For mark all Readers that have sense: In a true Church he grants, there is Communion between the Teacher and taught, and the reason which he gives for it, is, because the Flock is the object of his Ministry.  
Now, if that in this way, make a Lawful Communion; then by necessary consequence, there can be no hearing in the other way, but must be an unlawful Communion; My reason is, because the Office of a Priest, is not an institution of any one independent body, but of universal Hyerarchicall state, and extendeth itself too, and over all manner of persons whatsoever, I say so many, as do congregate and bend an ear thereto.  
If any should object and say, but many of them, are Parish-Priests, and so resident in one place. I answer, this respects not the state of their Office at all, but only imports a licence that some have from their Prelate, to do certain services specially in this or that Assembly; not that their Office of Preisthood is here by any way limited or circumscribed, but is, (as we said before) universal and every where over Sea and Land: Hence then, every hearer must needs be the object of such a Ministry, and so communicateth therewith, if there be any weight of reason in the Treat. words. And here we have verified the old saying.  Ipse sibi nocet is alium qui laedere quaerit. 
4. Where he saith, here is communion only in the effects of the truths taught. Here is another invention of his own head, and makes true the saying, 
i Vno absurdo dato, mille sequuntur  grant one absurdity, and a thousand will follow. That the effects should be dividuated from the working-cause, is against the rules of reason, 
k Clement. Templ. Metaphy. l. 3, p. 251, 260.  for common principles show, that there is an essential connextion between them, and the former is to be considered for quality & kind, as the later is. These Canons are well known, as is the cause, so that which is caused of the doing of the thing. 
n Idem qua idem, semper facit idem, Arist. l. 2. de Gen. & corrupt. c. 10,  Again, 
l Rodolph Goclen. c. 9 p. 90  as is the same, so always follows the same effect.  
We speak not here, of what may fall out by accident, 
o Arist. 2 Topic. c. 9, 5, 31,  but of things considered in themselves. 
m qualis causa tale causatum,  And to take it thus, and say, they effects are right and Lawful, when the instruments, and working-causes are wrong and unlawful; Or to say, I may communicate in the effects, and yet not with the instruments, or working-cause. It is (caput vacuum cerebro) as vain a thing as ever man held.  
If a Traitor or Rebel should set up one to be a judge, another a Major, etc. and give them commission to administer, justice publicly; Were it Lawful for any of the King's subjects to communicate in the effect of their administrations, because the same in itself was just? I say no: For it were treason so to do. And is it a lesser offence, to offend God in a matter of the like nature?  
If a man may communicate in the effects of such actions (say good in themselves) whose instruments and working-causes are unlawful: I say, let this be granted, there are few Idolaters, Adulterers, Thiefs, Witches, but will easily excuse themselves. But as it is a Maxim in the civil Law, 
p Fr. Connanus Comment. juris civil. l. 5, c. 9;  and grounded on the Law of God. 
q Mart. Azpilcueta Enchyrio, c: 17, p. 330, calls it a breach of the 7. ● Command.  That to have any thing rightly: just and lawful instruments must be used; So it is in this cause here; For howsoever God may use what instruments he will: I say, bring his purpose to pass by what secondary means he pleaseth, yet hath he bound us straightly, not to make use of any unlawful instruments or working-meanes, (whether it be Church, Ministry, Worship, or any Rite or Order) in hope thereby to have some good effects.  
And here I desire our Opposites to tell me, seeing as the Treat. 
r Treat. of pub. common. p. 29.  confesseth, that the Chancellor in the Consistory, and the Priest in the Pulpit or Desk, doth administer by one and the same power: Namely, that of the Prelate; which, from, and by him, both the one, and other doth receive. Why a man may not as well communicate in the effects of the administrations, done by the Chancellor in his Consistory, so they are truths: As in the effects of the truths taught by a Priest in his Pulpit or Desk?  
5. Though hearing simply imports not Church-communion: yet all hearing in a Churchway, imports a justification and allowance of the state, both of the Church and Ministry, in which, and by which a man is taught. And this we have already so proved, that unless men resolve not to yield to the truth, which is most plain, but to kick against the prick, and with Cavils, Gloze, and facing out of things (like so many soul feet to trouble the clean water) they must needs see, and say, that the Treat. in this point held an error.   

SECT. 9  
THe two next Objections, and his answers to them, are not worth the writing down. If any other, do otherwise think, I wish much good it may do him, that can make any good of it. But I proceed to the 9 Objection, which he frames in this manner.  
He that hears, 
Object. 9  appears to have communion with the Church and Ministry; and all appearance of evil is to be avoided, 1. Thes. 5. 22.  
To this, 
Treat.  thus he answereth: The Scripture is not to be understood of all that appears evil to others out of an erroneous and deceived judgement, etc. but it is meant either of the Doctrine in prophecy, etc. or of that which appears evil to a right discerning eye. By this imagined exposition I might not hire a house in a Parish, where I were not known: seeing thereby I appear a Parish member.  
Answ. 1. I know not in truth, what better to liken this answer, then to that Nightingale, of whom a Lacedaemonian 
* Plutarch. in Apothed. lacon  (when he had plucked of her sethers, and saw only a little Karkesse left) said: Thou art a voice, and nothing else. The truth is, the utmost that he hath here said, is a mere colour of some thing, while nothing is to be found in it. For, what was in the Objection, remains still virtualiter, for aught he hath said to it, or against it.  
2. If a man were to make a sword for his enemy, he would set as little edge upon it as could be, for to save himself. The Treat. in framing this, and other Objections for us, is sure to make them blunt enough, that so they may the less hurt him, and profit us.  
But seeing we have the weapon now in our own hands, we will do our best to sharpen it. Our argument therefore here, shallbe thus laid down.  
Whatsoever is an appearance of evil, to a right discerning eye, the same aught to be avoided.  
But to hear unlawful Ministers in Antichristian Assemblies, is an appearance of evil, to a right discerning eye.  
Therefore it is a sin to do it.  
The Proposition is proved from 1. Thessal. 5. 22. and here granted by the Treat. The Assumption is as certain by these reasons following.  
For 1. This going to the place where they go, and hearing as they do, is an occasion whereby a man comes into a suspicion of idolatry, and that he is of the same mind with the rest, whatsoever otherwise he pretendeth; And thus have our Martyrs testified, as Smith 
a Acts & Monu. 1876. , Bradford 
b ibid. 1829. , and others. And that this is an appearance of evil, both Papists, 
c Eckius Tom. 3. in fest. 5. Mich. p. 706.  and Protestants (d), do acknowledge it. Peter's adjoining himself to the jews. Gal. 2. was ostentatio falsae opinion; is; as Pareus 
e Exercit. Theol. ib. 2, p. 111.  saith, a showing of the same error that they did, though his private meaning was other wise: So here. 
B. jewel en 1. Thes. 5. 22. p. 219 Cent. 2, l 2, c. 4.   
2. It is an appearance of evil, when men do that, which causeth others to fear they are unsound. But such a fear is here justly caused; For many holy men have counted these Table-Gospellers 
f Act. Monum. p. 1876, & 1829.  and said they did it, to avoid persecution; And reputed this action much like the Counsel in the profane Orator. 
g Servire temporibus apientis semperest habitum. Tul. in Ant.  It is always thought great wisdom to apply one's self unto the times. The reason wherefore johashaphat is blamed for his affinity 
h 2 Chro. 18. 1.  with Ahab, was quia scandalum dedit subjectis quass foris non improbaret idolatriam, quam domi abrogaverit? This is their cause, 
i Pareus Exer. Theol. l. 2 p. 101.  who go to false Churches: It makes the Godly to think, that their performances among them, are not perfect; But that they have some sinester ends, both in coming to them, and going back again to the other.  
3. When idolaters see us present at their worship; they must needs hereby be hardened and heartened in superstition; And this is another breach of that precept in 1. Thes. 5. 22. It is observed of some 
k P. Mart. Loc: Commun. Clas. 3, c. 2, p. 241.  that Namaan might not do any civil reverence in the House of Rimnon, least through any appearance or show of idolatry, some might be strengthened by it, in false worship.  
Augustine 
l Tom. 10 Hom. 6.  writes very well to this purpose: Do ye ask me (saith he) how the Gentles may be won? How they may be called to salvation? FORSAKE THEIR MEETINGS, let go their toys, and then if they agree not to our truth, let them be ashamed of their fewnes. This Counsel we shall do well to follow; For there is not a readier way to bring people off, from their idolatry, then to let them alone 
m Hos. 4 17. See junius on the place.  as Gods bids us; Keep away from all their humane forms and fashions of Religion, and especially such as are round about us, and live amongst us, as Cartwright 
n Reply 1. to Whitg: p. 131.  excellently shows.  
4. It hath a show of evil, in that it is a matter of active scandal, and giveth occasion to our brother, to fall into that evil. whereof it hath ashew; to wit, that there is no just cause to separate from false Churches, but that people may remain members thereof: And howsoever, there be not here an intention in the doer, to draw another into sin, yet of itself 
o Quando ipsum factum est tale, quod de sui ratione habear, quod sit inductivum ad peccandum puta cum aliquis publice facit peccatum, well quod habet similitudinem peccati. Aquin. 2. quest. 43. Art. 1. a. 4.  this is an inducement to it; And gives another occasion to fall. And so much in effect writes Zanchy 
p Explic. in 1 Thes. 5. 22. p. 419, Tom 6. , on the place.  
5. This is not without appearance of evil and scandal, because hereby, men seek to uphold such ways and inventions in divine worship, as the Lord of old hath ordained to destruction 
q ler 51. 26 2 The. 2 8. Rev. 18. , Merdecah would not give countenance, nor reverence to one of that Nation 
r Brent. Comment. in Hest. c. 3, v 2. , whose name God had appointed to be blotted out under Heaven.  
Wherefore did the Lord give so strait a charge unto Israel, to break down Altars 
s Deu. 7, 5. , groves high-places, etc. Vt ex eo intelligamus, because, saith Junius 
t Anal. in Deu. 12 p. 71.  by this we should understand, that they were not to retain any thing that concerneth either the substance or show of Idolatry. Calvine 
u Comment. in Esa 27, 9  speaks the very same: (So detestable is idolatry before God) Vt eius memoriam vult penitus deleri, ne posthàc ullum eius vestigium appareat.) That he will have the very memory of it utterly to be abolished, lest any footstept thereof should appear afterward.  
jacob abolished out of his House not only the idols, but the earings, Gen. 35. 4. because they were superstitionis insignia: Monuments of superstition; As Calvin 
y Comment. in Gen. 35 4. , Monilia Idolis consecrata: jewels consecrated to idols; As Pareus 
a ibid. : Res idolatriae pertinentes: Things appertaining to idolatry, as junius 
b ibid. .  
To be short, would not God have the jews under the law, to countenance any humane devise, whether Ministry 
c Numb. 8 22. 24. Numb. 4. 24, 31. & 1847 , Ministration, Altar, Sacrifice, Sacraments, either by word, 
d Psa. 16. Hos. 2, 16, 16, 17.  writing, presence, assembling together 
e Deu. 16, 1, 6 1 King. 12, 32. , observing the time, coming to the place, bowing down 
f Deu. 5, 9 Ps. 95, 6. Hos. 13. 2. Eze. 18, 6. Neh, 10, 32. 37. Ex. 30, 16. Eze. 5, etc. , kneeling, lifting up the eyes, paying of tithes (g), Offerings, Contributions, etc. And shall we think that all these outward observances, are now out of use, and that men in such respects may publicly countenance the ways of Antichrist. As for such, as so think, let them know, they are in error and sin; And as the Papists have condemned Montanus for an Heretic, and yet raetine among them his vile opinions. So do these men, embrace the lies and beastly vanities of H. N. that monstrous Monster, although in words they will disclaim all Familisme. 
‡ As cats love not the Master of the house, but his housholds-goods: so many say they cannot abide the Pope, & yet love his household stuff to well.   
Consider what I say, and the Lord give you understanding.  
For the instance, which he brings of hiring a House in a Parish, it is discrepant and impertinent, and so of no validity. For, let Barnard's 
g Consirat. Eugen. l. 3.  useful Canon be observed, an liceat, an deceat, an expediat, we shall soon see, there is no agreement between it, and the thing he applies it to.  
For first, the Law of God alloweth us, to live where wicked men do; and to have necessary society with them in civil things; And thus the godly in all ages have practised. But let them show us, where it is written, that we must go, unto their unlawfull-Church-meetings, and there worship God with them, and among them. I ask again, who of the Saints hath done this? The Lord 
h ler. 15. 19  saith: Let them return to thee, but return not thou unto them.  
2. It is seemly that we dwell among them; and reciprocally give and take earthly helps each of other. 
* Compossessores mundi non erroris. We must be cò partners with them in the world but not in their errors, saith Tertullian.  But in Religion we may not use any of their devises, as means and furtherances of our edification.  
Elias was careful to repair the Lords Altar; For as Martyr 
i In his Comment. on the place.  saith, he judged it an unbefitting thing, and a great indignity to God and his truth, to Offer Sacrifice on Baal's Altar. If men in those days had the Zeal of that good Prophet, they would scorn and loath to make use of any thing that is Antichrists. I say it again, were men zealous for the Lord God of Hosts, they would fear to run to false Churches and Ministers to be edified. Is it not because there is not a God in Israel that ye go.  
3. This also is behooveful and expedient, as the Apostle 
k 1 Cor. 5. 10.  saith; But the other is not so, as we have before proved. For Conclusion, wheresoever I live, my constant absence from their Church is an evident token, that I have left them; But on the contrary; if I go thither to worship, this gives them just cause to think that I approve of their unsanctified standing; Whosoever therefore can make these two things hang together? I must needs say, quid libet equolibet, of every thing he can make any thing. But of this no more now: let us hearken to what follows.   

SECT. 10.  
THe next Objection is thus laid down: None can hear without a Preacher: None can preach, except he be sent, Rom. 10. 14. 15. Therefore I cannot Lawfully hear him, that hath not a Lawful sending.  
His answer to it is: 
Treat.  1. That Conclusion is neither in the Text nor sound. 2. I may Lawfully hear him that hath no Lawful calling, as I have formerly showed. 3. The sending there intended is God's gracious work of providence in raising up men, by enabling and disposing them to preach, etc. 4. If faith came by the preaching of unlawful Ministers, it follows thereupon, that such Preachers are sent in the Apostles sense. This is the sum of his answer.  
Answ. It was a cunning trick, which Themostocles was once taught by a man of Lacedemonia, that because they might not take the Tables away, wherein a Law was engraven; He should therefore turn them up-side down, which was as good as to take them away altogether. Howsoever, the Treat: takes not from us the Tables of holy Scriptures, wherein is written the Law of Christ's Ministers, yet by a pretty devise, he turns them here upside down: Which is as good as to take them quite away. I know what I speak, and will stand to it; For if this place, Rom. 10, 14, 15. respects not a true outward calling, but is to be understood promiscuously of all Ministers, be their calling never so false, devilish, Antichristian. I say, if this Text be so to be interpreted, then have not the Ministers of God any more to say for the justification of their standing, than the Ministers of Satan (I use Paul's phrase 
* 2. Cor. 11. 15. ) have to say for theirs. Yea moreover, hence the base Familists 
a H. N. his Exhort. to his Childr. , and such giddie-heads, who deny all outward calling to particular men and say, every one that can preach the Word, are Ministers alike; Are justified 
‡ He that justifies the false claim of a usurper▪ condemns the party, whose title is right and good.  in their most vile assertion. ☉ facinus horrendum, sancti viri.  
But to clear the Text from the Treat: false gloss; And by it, to prove the truth, which we hold; I will here lay down this argument.  
If Paul by sending, 
Proof 1.  Rom. 10, 14, 15. doth not at all intent unlawful Ministers: Then are not unlawfll Ministers to be heard: But the first is true, therefore the second.  
The proposition which needeth only to be cleared, may be thus manifested: Such as the Apostle intended, Rom. 10. ought and may Lawfully preach: But Antichristian Ministers, neither ought nor may Lawfully preach; Ergo, the Apostle, Rom. 10, means not Antichristian Ministers.  
The Major is most evident, and cannot be denied by any that bears the face of a Christian. The Minor is clear and certain by these Scriptures 
b Heb. 5; 4. Numb. 16. 5, and 18, 7, 2 Chro, 26 18 Act. 14 23. ler. 23 21. . Besides granted of all, both Papists and Protestants. To wit, that it is great sin to exercise any spiritual function or Ministry, without a true outward calling. Of this judgement were Francis Ribera 
c Comment. in Heb. 5, 4. , Toletus 
d In Joh. 10. pag. 597. , Royardus 
e Feria Ter: Post. Pent. , Luther 
f Comment. in Gal. c. 1; v. 8.  Pareus 
g Comment; in Heb. 5. 4; , Piscator 
h ibid. , Ames 
i Cas. Consc. l. 4. c. 25.  Slater, 
k On Rom. 2. v. 3. , Cartwright 
l Repl. to Whitg; p. 54 63. , Wilson 
m Comment; on Rom. 10; v. 15. , Bilson 
n Chur; Gou. , & others.  
2. If we may Lawfully communicate in, and with that Ministry, which the Apostle speaketh of, Rom. 10. 15. then he intends not here any unlawful Ministry. But the first is true; Ergo the later is true also.  
The Proposition cannot be doubted off. The Assumption we prove by our Opposites Confession; For they grant, it is unlawful to communicate in, and with a false Office.  
3. If the Holy Ghost doth testify that by sending, Rom. 10. the true and Lawful Ministers of Christ are intended: Then are not false and unlawful Ministers intended in that place. But the first is true; Ergo the later is true also.  
The Proposition is grounded on the words of the Text: How shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, how beautiful are the feet of them that preach the Gospel of Peace, and bring glad tyting of good things.  
These words are taken out of Esa. 52. 7. where the Prophet (according to the interpretation of all Learned men upon the place) hath reference to the Ministers of Christ; I say, to such only, whose outward calling (whether extraordinary or ordinary) was Lawful and true.  
So Cyrillus 
o Comment. in Esa. 52. 7. , Dionysius 
p ibid. , Areularius 
q ibid. , Wigand 
r ibid. , Hyperius 
s On the place. , Bullingerus 
t ibid. , Mollerus 
u ibid.; , Zwinglius (x), Marloratus 
y ibid.; , Gualte 
a ibid.; . Musculus 
b ibid.; , Vrsinus 
c ibid.; , Oecolampadius, and others.  
The Assumption needs no proof; except a man would make some question, whether it should be day, when it is manifested to him, that it is not night.  
4. If unlawful and false Ministers are not sent from God; But from the Devil and Antichrist; Then doth not the Apostle in Rom. 10. 15. intent false and unlawful Ministers; But the antecedent is true; Ergo, also the consequence.  
The Major or antecedent is ground 
d ibid.;  on these Scriptures 
* jer. 14: 14; Rev 9 3; and 13; 14; 15; 16 and 18; 15 17; 2 Thes. 2; 3; 4; 2 Chro. 11. 15; Rev. 16. 3. . And among other reasons laid down by Zanchy 
e Quia non mittuntur ab eo, sed a Diabolo. Explicat. Philip; 3. 1 p. 176; Tom. 4. , wherefore unlawful Ministers ●h●uld be avoided, he gives this for one; Because God sends them not, but the Devil. So Cartwright ‡ 
f Repl; to Whitg. p. 88; 204.  speaking of the Hierarchy (which comprehends all false Offices in the Kingdom of the Beast) saith, it came out of the Bottomless pit of hell, and from the Devil. Perkins 
g Expos. Serm; mount. Mat 7; p. 239; vol. 2. , Pareus 
h Comment; in Mat. 24. 23. , Musculus 
i Comment, in Mat. 7. , Latton 
k Zion's Plea. , the Authors of the Admonitions to the Parliament 
l Admon. 1. , and others say so too.  
The Assumption is as manifest; For durst any man affirm, that Ministers not sent from God, but from Satan and Antichrist, are here meant by the Apostle.  
5. Such have a promise of God's gracious presence with them, and of his blessing on their labours and Ministry, who are said, Rom. 10. 15. to be sent; But unlawful Ministers have no such promise of God's presence with them, nor of his blessing on their labour and Ministry. Therefore by sending Rom. 10. the Apostle intendeth not unlawful Ministers.  
He that should deny this argument, would show more spite than wit; For both pa●ts are as clear as the Sun at noonday. For the other part of the reason, there can be no exception against it; For seeing this place, which is the foundation of their cause, is very Sand; the whole building (like a tottering wall) must needs fall to the ground.  
2. For his saying; He hath before showed, that it is Lawful to hear him that hath no Lawful calling.  
I answer, I cannot find this proved any where in his Book; For I profess in the word of truth, I see little difference between his grounds for hearing in false Churches; and the Nicolaitants reasoning for eating in idol-Temples.  
For thus they would plead: 
m Euseb: lib: 3; cap. 29; Irevaen lib: 1. c. 25  Meats and Drinks are the good Creatures of God, and may be used in a civil way Lawfully; Now we receive them no otherwise, whatsoever ends and respects others have.  Convenient rebus nomina saepe suis. 
What is the Treat. plea but the same: Hearing is a natural action: And although he hears false Ministers, yet is not his private meaning to honour the state of the Office, as the rest do. Thus (Chius ad Coum) their Doctrines are alike.  
But doth not this in the mean time, show a desperate cause, which hath not any authentical records of the Holy Ghost. Under the shadow whereof, it can find any shelter to shroud itself.  
What, in the whole Book of God 
‡ Evangelicae & Apostolicoe literae, & veterum Prophetarum Oracula perspicuè nos instituunt, quid oporteat sapere de voluntate, & sensu Dei. Ponentes ergo contentionem ex divinitus inspiratis Oraculis quevaeram is solutionem eorum, quae proponuntur. Theod. lib. 1; c. 7.  is there not one place of Scripture to be found? What, nothing in the Prophets? Nothing among all the writings of Christ and of his Apostles? But it must be held up (as the Apostle speaketh 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) by the sleight 
n Ephes. 4. 14;  of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lay in wait to deceive.  
Against this kind of reasoning, I might here bring that exception which Tertullian 
o De prescript: advers: haeret.  did of old against his Opposites. What hath Athens to do with Jerusalem, the School of Philosophy with the Church of Christ.  
In matters of faith men should so weigh and consider of things, as not to write what reason, but what Religion, not what Philosophers, but what the Prophets and Apostles, not what fancy thinks, but what the Spirit of God doth say. 
p Sensus nostri, & enarrationes sine his testihus non habent fidem. Origen: in Hierom. Hom. 1.   
Indeed, if a man list to be contentions, he may find something to say to every thing, though little to purpose to any thing; For what cause so bad, but some will have a colour for it.  
Hath not the Stews of Rome found Patrons 
p Harding in confutat. of the Apolog.  Have not some defended commons of Wives 
q P. Clemens. ; yea and worse too; Therefore with the Prophet this shall always be my prayer: O let me not wander from thy Commandments; Remove from me the way of Lying; And take not the Word of Truth out of my mouth.  
3. For his Exposition, it is drawn in by the hair of the head; And well, 
r Psal. 119 10. 29. 43.  it resembleth a Shipman's hose, for you may apply it to what you will, rather than to the point in hand. There is not a Writer, I am persuaded, that ever gave such a sense of the place; As if wisdom had been borne with him▪ and should dye with him.  
I shall not step out of the way, to call in here a few well deserving audience of the Learned. Famous Pareus 
s Comment. in Rom. 10. 15.  an interpreter one of a thousand; upon the place writes thus: How shall they preach, except they be sent, why so? What hinders but he may preach that is not sent? indeed he may so to do, but not as God's messenger: For as no man is the King's Ambassador, unless he have his Commission: So such Preachers as will declare in God's name his mercies and benefits, ought necessarily to be sent by him; For he rejecteth all them as intruders, which run and teach without his Commission. Unto the preaching therefore of the Word, a calling is required, etc. And though he speak here properly of the Apostolical Commission, which was extraordinary. Notwithstanding it must also be understood of ordinary Ministers: For none is a Lawful Preacher of the Word, except God call him. Now, the Lord calls some immediately, as of old the Prophets and Apostles. Others mediately by an outward calling of the Church. So he. The very same Hyperius, Fagius, Ochinus, Tossanus, Olevianus, Grinaeus, Martyr, Rolloc, Hunnius, Rungius, Brentius, and others on the place.  
Now, howsoever false Ministers are not sent of God, according to the intent of the Apostle, Rom. 10. 15. yet I confess, he hath a special guidance, government and direction, both in their raising up, coming forth, and preaching such and such truths, for the good of his elect in many places where they come.  
It is said of joseph's Brethren, that out of envy they sold him to the Midianites 
t Gen. 4, 8. ; and yet the Scripture elsewhere saith 
u Gen. 45. 3. 8. Psal. 105 17. ; God sent him into Egypt.  
Now, surely the same God, which could use their mallace, by which he was sold into Egypt, for the corporal profit of his people there; he can use as well the power 
x Pareus in Comment. Gen: 45 7. p. 429. Tom. 1.  of Antichrist, (by which the Ministers of false Churches have their calling) for the spiritual comfort and good of his chosen ones. And howsoever he is no author of unlawful Ministeries: Neither can it be properly said that he sends them: Yet he so wisely ordereth and disposeth of them, that he brings to pass hereby his own purpose and will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, in the propagation of the Gospel, to the conversation of many.  
But let it here be remembered, that their places for all this, are not the better, neither their administrations the more warrantable; Nor any people the more justified to hear them, than were jacobs' Sons to be justified in what they did to their Brother, because the Lord by it did them good.  
That which God doth this way, is not of any promise 
a Cartwright, Hom. in Eccles. c. 3 fol 83. 84.  that he hath made, but out of his superabundant grace, turning the sins of his people (as the Apothecary doth poison to Medicines) to their profit and good. 
b Things done by unlawful instruments, so fare as they respect the accomplishment of Gods will and pleasure, either in the safety of his Church trial of his Children etc. the Scripture attributeth them to God; as author & doer; and so fare forth are most holy works; But so fare as they respect the action done, and instruments; they are wicked works, and they instruments are sent from the Devil Pareus in Hos. 8. p. 529.   
Lastly, that which he saith follows, it followeth not, but is (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) a Conclusion il-gathered. But I see it is an easy thing to conquer, if begging will procure one that. Put case usurpers of civil offices, should by their administrations profit some people; Must it follow thereupon, that such men are sent forth by the King? Indeed so it must be taken, or else the Treat: exposition is neither in the Text, nor sound. But (cadet in cursu) he runs in vain, as he hath done all the way before.  
Before I end this Section, I desire to ask one thing of our Opposites. Suppose there be a man whom they would hear, but know not whether ever any conversion hath followed his preaching: May they in such a case hear him or no? If they say yes, then wherefore are the effects of false Ministers made the main ground of hearing them? If they say no? Then how can they hear any? Considering they know not certainly by whose preaching another is converted. As is the way of an Eagle in the air, such is the way of an adulterous Woman, it is hid and cannot be seen.   

SECT. 11.  
THE 11. Objection is thus laid down: The sheep of Christ hear his voice, but strangers they will not hear: Joh. 10. 3. 8. 37.  
He answereth: Christ doth not there speak of the outward hearing, but of the hearking unto; that is, as he expounds himself, Vers. 3. 4. 5. 14. 16. 26. 27. of the knowing and believing of his voice, and following it, etc.  
Answ. It is a speech of Augustine 
a Ne sitis multi Magistri dissentientes a Doctrina unici magistri Christi. in Lib. 1. detraction. : Be not many masters, dissenting from the Doctrine of Christ, our only Master.  
The Counsel is good, for it is a great sin and hurtful vice, to be rash and adventurous upon opinions, in matters of Religion, where men are not first well informed in judgement, by true grounds of knowledge. Now truly I have not seen in so short a Tract. any man that hath more adventured to broach private conceits 
‡ In Ecclesia ponitur idolum, quan do novum dogmastatuitur. jer. in Her. 32. , than the Treat: and to single himself out from all writers, ancient and modern. As if his fancies like Oracles were to be lickd up; and his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he said, as another Pythagoras 
b Diogen. Laer. in Pythag.  must be rested in; or as the Pope's Traditions 
c Counc. Trens. Sess. 4. dec. 1. p. 11. distinct. 19 c. sic omnes.  to be received, as if Chrst spoke them. But before I come to discover the nakedness of his answer, I will first from this Scripture lay down this argument.  
Such as Christ intenteth by strangers in joh. 10. 5. may not Lawfully be heard.  
But Christ by strangers in joh. 10. 5. intendeth unlawful Ministers.  
Ergo unlawful Ministers may not Lawfully be heard.  
The Major is without controversy. For 1. the Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is of that plainness, as no wit of man can put by the ●orce thereof; Properly it imports a going after another bodily 
d Mat. 4. 20. 22. 25. Mar. 1. 18. joh. 1. 37. 38. 40. Act. 11. 18. ; as a Scholar followeth the Master to be taught.  
2. It cannot be showed 
* If they can, let them.  that words so generally laid down, as these, (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, etc.) are used any where to restrain a person only from believing the Doctrines of false Teachers, and allowing him in mean time freely to hear them.  
3. Whereas Christ saith, they will flee from him, this must surely be understood, animo & corpore: For otherwise with reverence be it spoken: The prohibition here were unnecessary and vain: Considering if true Ministers shall err in Doctrine, we must fly from it 
e 1. Thes. 5 21; . So then by this Exposition, there is nothing more meant of flying from strangers, then from Christ's own Household servants. The which to affirm is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as the Philosopher saith 
f Arist. l. 2. Elench. c. 3. , absurd & idle.  
Finally, Learned Men generally, understand it of flying with body and mind. And so not to come near the breath of unlawful Ministers. So Augustine 
g De verb. Dom. Serm. 49 , Cyrill 
h Comment. in Ioh: 10. l. 8; Tom. 1 , Chrysostom 
i Hom. 83. in joh. , Calvin 
k Comment. in joh. 10. 5; , Hunnius 
l ibid.; , Zepperus 
m ibid.  Tossanus 
n Comment. in I. 10. 5. , Stumfius 
o Postel: Alleg. Dom. 8. Post. Trinit. p. 481 , Royardus 
p Hom: in seria tert. Pent. , and others.  
The Minor is undeniable, and proved 3. ways. 1. By divine 
* Pro 2, 16 & 10, 20, 24. & 7. 5  authority, which gives them often this title. 2. By their agreement and likeness: in Scripture men are named strangers in 4 respects. 1. Of their strange sect. 
q Mat. 17 25. Esa. 62 8  2. Of their strange Religion. 
r Mar 2 11. Ps 81. 9;  3. Strange Laws. 
s judg. 19, 12; Neb. 92.  And lastly, of the strange work 
u Luk. 16, 12.  and service which they do. This holds true here in the case of unlawful Ministers; For 1. they are not citizens with the saints and of the Household of God 
* We speak not here of the invisible Church, but the true visible.  2. Their way and manner of serving God, is contrary to the rules and orders, which he hath prescribed. 3. Their Canons and Institutions are none of his, but Satan's and the Bishops. 4. In their administrations (according. to their Service-Booke;) they serve not Christ, but Antichrist. Mali thripes, mali ipes.  
3. By the testimony of Learned men, as Pareus 
a Comment: in Hebr: 5, v. 4. p. 211. , Polanus 
b In Ezech. c 44; p 800. , Danaeus 
c Comment. in 1 Timot. 5, 22, p. 343; , Toletus 
d in joh. 10, p. 597. , Luther 
e Enarrat. in Evang. Tom. 5, p. 158. , Hoffmister 
f Hom. in Evang: Dom. 9; Post Trinit. , Guiliaudus 
g Comment. in Gal. 1, p. 241. , Poligenarus 
h Dom, 7, post pont in Evang: p. 26. , Topiar 
i In Evang; Dom. 8; post. Trin; p. 73. , Anton: Gonigston 
k Postil; Oct; post. penned; p. 175; , the Rhemists 
l Annot; in Ioh: 10; v. 5. . All these affirm, that whosoever taketh upon him to preach without a Lawful sending, cometh in, not by a Lawful Election, and holy Church Ordinance, but breaketh in against Order; By force and favour of men, & by humane Laws. he is a stranger, a thief, a murderer, according to Christ, saying in Io. 10. and thus have the old Writers expounded the place. As Irenaeus 
m L. 4. c. 4. , Clem: Alexand. 
n L. 1. Stromat.  Cyprian 
o Lib. 1. Epist. 6 & 76. , Didymus 
p In Ioh: 10. , Rupertus 
q In joh. 10. , Theodorus 
r ibid. , and others.  
To come now to the Treat: 1. His whole answer is merely a declining from the state of the question.  
A negatione unius disparatorum ad positionem alterius non valet argumentatio.  
He reasoneth for all the World, as if one should reason thus: A man may not put in practice the bad Counsel of a murderer or thief; Ergo, he may hear them. Christ (saith he) will not have us to believe and obey the unsound Doctrines of strangers; Ergo, he doth not speak of the outward hearing of them.  
Diffido oculis meis, & identidem interrogo, an legerim, an viderim 
s Plin. Paneg.   
I suspect my sight, I question my Copy, I ask of myself again and again, could the Treat. write so unskilfully; For if this be not a nonsequitur, than fools cannot speak Nonsense.  
2 His distinction between hearing and hearking, is much like to that of the Papists 
t Bellarm. de Eccles. triumph. l. 1. c. 12. , between Dulia and Latria. The Scripture forbids worshipping of angels: True say they, as Mediators, 
u Hassels pro invocat. c. 19 p. 47.  so it is unlawful, otherwise not; Christ bids us to fly from strangers, and not to hear them: yea, saith he, as to obey their Doctrine? otherwise we may follow them, and hear them; is not this to presume above that which is written? Surely, if men may take such boldness in expounding of the Scriptures, the grossest Idolater may excuse himself easily.  
3. I grant that to hear is some time taken for believing, approving, following, &c But what of this? Will it therefore follow, that Christ in joh. 10, 5. doth not speak of the outward hearing of strangers.  
I may safely protest his proof here, is only his bare opinion 
‡ And so it is all along the book.  And he argues ex non concessis: From that which is not granted. I think no wise man will engage himself to defend the conclusion, which cannot be defended. 
* Ne conare quid fieri non potest.   
4. Where he saith, the strangers of whom Christ speaketh, were of the true Church and of Israel.  
If his meaning be, that Christ here hath respect only to them, he is greatly deceived. For he intendeth all strangers, which in the sense of the Scriptures, either then were, or afterwards should come into the world, whether of the true Church & of Israel, or not.  
It hath hitherto been a ruled case among divines, not to distinguish where the Word makes no distinction; But the Treat: keeps seldom this Canon; For as Lizards, who out of the open field do run into Bushes; So he leaves the plain Text, and literal sense of the Scriptures; And turning their necks clean about, 
* I hear that some say, that these later works of the Treat. are fare better than the first. Now, these say so, because they lead to lose walking, and therefore they like them the better. For otherwise they are much worse. Unless to prove a thing sound by the Word of God: is not so good as a bare and bold affirmation , makes them speak what he pleaseth; And by this means neither dealeth with the Objectson, nor cause of the Lord, as is meet. 
* I hear that some say, that these later works of the Treat. are fare better than the first. Now, these say so, because they lead to lose walking, and therefore they like them the better. For otherwise they are much worse. Unless to prove a thing sound by the Word of God: is not so good as a bare and bold affirmation   
5. It is a question, whether the Godly in the jewish Church, having by hearing discovered the Scribes & Pharises to be strangers, that is, false Prophess, might afterward hear them again. The Treat 
a See his justificat. separat. pag. 434.  was once of the mind that they might not; and gave some reasons for it 
b To be lightly moved in Religion, is Childish weakness, saith he: divine & Mor. Observe. p. 44. It had been a happy thing, for the Church of God, if he had not showed such a Childish weakness. . But howsoever, the case is not easily to be determined; considering the state of that Church & time; Yet this is clear to all men of sound judgement, that in the Churches now under the Gospel, false Prophets may not be suffered; But after due and orderly conviction, (being found so, and abstinate) they are to be rejected, and so no outward hearing of them any more. Of this judgement Camerius 
c Comm. in. Apoc. c. 3. , Borrhaeus 
d In Apoc. c. 3. , Tossanus 
e In Mat. c. 7. , Oecolampadius 
f In Mat. c. 7. , and others  
last, by his answer, all false Prophets may be heard; For, if nothing make a false Prophet, but (as he saith) unsound Doctrine; And Christ doth not forbid the outward hearing of such; Then what I said follows necessarily. Now, if this were true, Lord, in what a miserable case were God's people. But it is neither so nor so; For the Scriptures show the contrary; beside he contradicts here himself, and is so variable and unsettled in that thing. As it may be said of him as it was said 
‡ Melanch. in Cron.  of Severus: Omnia fuit & nihil fuit. He turneth every way, and cannot pass any way. He anglieth in all waters, and yet catcheth nothing; he hath spent all his oil, in making a salve for the foul sore Antichristian Priests; and yet to say (as the truth is) hath left them in a worse cause 
* For they need not by his writing leave their unblessed standing. For so they only preach the truths of the Gospel. They sinne not. And then what need is there to lay down their false Office.  than he found them.   

SECT. 12.  
THe 12. Objection follows thus: The Scriptures of the Old and New Testament warn God's people of false Prophets; which the Ministers of that Church are, having an unlawful calling.  
To this he thus replies: 
Treat.  1. They warn not to hearken to them, nor to believe them; But to try them, which without hearing them, cannot be done. Not that all false Prophet are to be heard by all, that they might try them; For that were to tempt God: But now I answer 
* Not as Apollo answered the jews by the Scriptures Act. 18. ult. for so he could not: seeing he writes against them.  the Scriptures cited; which speak of Prophets in the true Church, which were to be heard, till they were orderly repressed, or at least plainly discovered by their Doctrine heard to be such.  
Answ. The soldiers which served Marcus Antonius, fell unawares on an Herb 
* Appian. de Bell. Parth. , the which greatly distempered their heads. To say, what my mind gives me, it was an unhappy thing, that ever the Treat. found out this Wild gourd, for it much weakened his large abilities, and caused him in this point, to be no more like the man, that he was, when he was against it; Then an apple is like a nut. 
‡ We cannot apply the saying in the Greek Proverb to him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Our later thoughts be wiser than our first. For here he rather striveth than teacheth; As jerom. confesseth of himself, being reproved by some, for writing some thing against lovinian (as the Treat: doth against us) by way of contention, rather than of Doctrine, Hierom, in Apolog. ad Pammachium pro libris adversus jovinian.   
Some thing he would say here, but to profess my own ignorance, I do not understand him.  
For 1. he peremptorily denies the whole Objection; and so conquently affirms that all False Prophets may be heard; yet presently with the same breath, he unsayes what he had said before; And says, all false Prophets are not to be he heard by all; And within 4 lines after, let's both sayings fall again, and saith, false Prophets, being discovered so to be, are not to be heard. This is so deep and inextricable a riddle for me to unfold, that I must confess myself here Davus, not Oedipus. And therefore will leave it for what it is, and come to the defence of our Argument.  
1. 
* 1 Cor. 6 15.  Howsoever the Treat: in the point of hearing of false Prophets, is off, and on, so that no body by his words can well tell, what he held; yet, as I have before shown, 
† Pag. 81.  God's Word damns it utterly.  
And to the former reasons, these may be added, 1, That the members of Christ, and the members of Antichrist, must not be mingled together, but in all the points of Religious Communion, as Prayer, Prophecy, Preaching, etc. be separated and apart. For to do otherwise, is as great indignity offered to God, as to take the members of the body, and make them the members of an Harlot.  
2. It Christ, who in those last days speaks evidently by his Gospel and Spirit, had judged it fit, that his Children should go unto false Churches, he would certainlly have made known the same to them. 
a Cirill observeth that such of the things done by Christ, are written, as the Writers thought to be sufficient for manners and Doctrine. In Evang. Io. lib. 12. c. 68   
3. This seemeth much to eclipse the glory of Christ's wisdom and faithfulness, in providing for the full and perfect instruction of his people in his own Ministry: That they should nevertheless (like an unchaste spouse) go out from, and make use of a stranger. 
‡ An honest man would be ashamed to be seen to be familiar with an Harlot.   
Moreover, for the Learned, they are against all hearing of all false Prophets, and speak down right, as the Word of God doth in the thing; I find in their writings, no such false and idle distinction, as the Treat: deviseth; namely, that some false Prophets may be heard; Others not.  
As for the weaker sort 
a Pag. 17. , and less able to discern of things that differ: they must not hear them: but the stronger and wiser may. As this is the idea of his own head, so for aught truly I know he walks alone in it. For, I am sure, Calvin 
b Serm. against idol. . Musculus 
c Comment. in Mat. 7. ver. 15. , 
d In Mat 7. 15.  Pareus 
e Comment. in Psal. 16, p. 52. , Zanchy 
f Explicat. in Philip. 3. v. 1. p. 174 Tom. 4. , Fenner 
g interp. Son: ch; 1; v. 7, 8; , Palladius 
h Postil; Dom. 8. Post. Trin; p. 256; , the Rhemists 
i Annot. in 2 Cor. 6. 14; and 2 joh. 10. , the Dovay- translators 
k Notes on ps. 16; p. 56; & on 2 King: 5; p. 941; , etc. those speak otherwise; yea, and some Elder Writers too. As Theodorus 
l L. 4; c. 14. , Chrisostome 
m In Mat. 7, v. 15. , Eusebius 
n Lib. 4; c. 22. , and others.  
These say (as I before said) that no false Prophet is to be heard, by any person whatsoever.  
2. For those two Scriptures, Deu. 13. 1. 1 Ioh: 4. 1. here brougth, to prove it Lawful, to hear unlawful Ministers: They are as fitly brought, as were the two witnesses brought against Christ, to prove him a transgressor.  
For 1. the hearing, mentioned in those places, respecteth only a true Church.  
Again, it concerns no hearing of false Prophets; but the godly are there admonished to examine the Doctrines delivered to them in a right way and order; And if they find any by teaching to be a false Prophet, they are to depose him, and afterwards not to hear him again 
o Populus Christianus detectis eorum erroribus fidem non habeat, aures ne praebeat, sed tanquam lupos fugiat. Par: in Mat. 7. 15. ; And thus our best Writers, interpret the places: as Frantzius Imlerus, Orinaus, Danaeus, Bugenhagius, Selneccer, Hunnius, Oecolampadius, and others.  
Now, mark (good Reader) how this hangs together. If the Saints in a true Church may hear one that is not known, to be a false Prophet, but afterwards by his unsound Doctrines plainly discovereth himself so to be; Then may they go unto a false Church, and hear one, whom they certainly know to be a false Prophet before they go, etc. The expression of it is conviction enough. 
* If it be a fit thing to use a Touchstone, for trial of coin, and that finding the same false, to refuse it; than it is meet, to receive money known to us to be counterfeit, and false. If this be absurd, so is the other too.   
The Treat: goes thus forward. 2. No man's unlawful outward calling, makes him a false Prophet; Nor his outward lawful calling, a true; But his true or false Doctrine only, makes him a true or false Prophet. A man may have a Lawful Office of Ministry, and yet be a false Prophet: if he teach false Doctrine; so he may be a true Prophet, if he teach the truth, though in unlawful and Antichristian state of Ministry.  
Answ. I never saw in my life, an error held by a man of learning, that hath less brought to countenance it then this; For whereas others commonly do quote Scriptures (albeit ill applied) & allege for themselves the judgements of other men. He goes not this way to work; But as if he had to deal only with Papists; we must take (as they must the Pope's 
a Distinc. 40, c. 51. Papa.  Decrees) his will for a reason, and measure things by the rules of his breast.  
But surely such kind of reasoning will have little weight in the conscience of any truly fearing God. For they willbe loath to leave an old faith for a new fancy.  
He saith, No man's unlawful outward calling, makes him a false Prophet; But I say, it doth; And the Prophets 
b Numb. 16. 2 Chro. 26. 1 King. 12. Son. 1 6. 7. Jer. 14. 14. & 23. 21 & 27. 15 , Christ 
c Mat. 7. 13. , and his Apostles 
d Heb. 5. 4. Rev. 2. 2.  say so too. Perkins 
e Exposit. on Christ's serm: in the mount. Mat. 7, v. 15. p. 239. vol. 3  is held among all the Godly Learned or a sole and judicious Writer; Now, what his judgement herein was, he showeth it thus: The first note which we must make of a false Prophet is this; Namely, to come on his own head; and to preach not being sent; And by this mark are false Prophets noted, Jer. 14. 14. I have not sent them, neither did I command them, and yet they Prophesied in my name.  
And no less do these words of Christ import, they come unto you, that is of themselves, without a calling from God and his Church, So he.  
What he saith, is said of Hierom 
f Comment. in Mat. 7. in jer. 14. 14. , chrysostom g, Cyrill 
‡ in Mat. 7, Tom. 1. , Pareus 
* Comment. in Mat. 7, 15. , Luther 
h Enarrat. in Evang. Dom. Oct. Post. Trin: Tom. 5, , Pelargius 
i Quaest Evang. p. 97. , Aquinas 
k In Comment: in jer: 14, 14. , Corvinus 
l Post: in Sexages. p. 54: , Bullinger 
m Comment: in jer: 14. 14. , Ferus 
n in Io. 10, p. 239. , Guiliaudus 
o In Ephes. 1, p. 292. , Bugenhagius 
p Comment: in Jer: 14, 14. , Toletus 
q In Jo: 10, p. 599. , Topiar 
r ●●st: Dom: S, Post: Trin: p. 73. , Hoffmister 
s Homil. in Evang. Dom. 9, post: , and others.  
Again, if an unlawful outward calling, make an unlawful Minister; than it makes a false Prophet; For according to the Scriptures, it is all one thing, only expressed in sundry terms.  
The Treat. 
‡ Divine & Mor: Observe: pag. 60.  tells us that their sin is great, and full of presumption, who shorten and strengthen the Scriptures to make way for their own devises.  
This fault he commits here himself; For where the Scriptures take all for false Prophets, which are unlawful Ministers, he (to make way for his own devise) will restrain the appellation to such as err only in Doctrine. And thus he makes good the rule, which Logicians term the omni & de nullo, as if true in the general, but not in the particular; As if true, that all unlawful Ministers in the sense of the Scriptures, are false Prophets; yet such as are unlawful Ministers in respect of their unlawful outward calling, are not false Prophets.  
Lastly, I would know, whether Corah burning true incense, and jeroboam Priests, offering true sacrifices, were false Prophets: if they were, (as no rational man will deny,) then the other followeth consequently.  
But I guess what caused this error in the Treat: he found in the Scriptures, that some are false Prophets, because of their false Doctrines; Hence he concluded, there were no other false Prophets; But it follows not, unless a man will say, he that robs a house, is a thief; Ergo, there are no thiefs, but House-Robbers. The which thing, whosoever holds, shallbe Paralogizer, a deluder of his own soul 
‡ And this may serve for answer to the Pistol maker; who enclosing up of his Epistle, crows out; Like a Cock of the game that hath beaten all his fellows out of place, now let them tell us, where they find in the Scripture, that men are named false Prophets, for want of a true outward calling; Forsooth here we show it, if you have eyes to see it, and grace to use it well. .  
Touching the other point; he speaks (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) in considerately, for to say, No man's outward Lawful calling makes him a true Prophet; For as in Wedlock a woman is truly a wife immediately upon the action of her Lawful marriage; yea though she should afterward never do the duties of a wife; So he is a true Ecclesiastical Officer, incontinently upon his outward lawful calling, Let his practices afterwards be good or bad; The reason is, because his administrations after his calling, as prayer, preaching, etc. gives nothing to the formal being of it; As I have showed elsewhere 
t Necessit. Separ. p. 236. .  
His words following are: 
Treat.  Balaam 
* Num. 22 & 25. Iosh. 13. 21. 2 Pet 2, 15. 16. Rev. 2 14. Num. 25. 5. 9 10, etc. And chap. 24. 2 3, etc.  was a false Prophet, in cursing (in purpose) where God would have him bless, and in teaching Balak, to put a stumbling block before the people of Israel; and yet a true Prophet in blessing Israel, by the spirit of Prophecy, and Word of the Lord put into his mouth.  
Answ. Would men receive his sayings, as they do gold and silver, by due trial and proof, they should find reason enough to refuse them, & turn them back; Now, for the falseness of this 
* Ea doceat Episcopus quae a Deo didicerit, non ex proprio cord. Let the B. teach those things, which he hath learned of God; And not of his own heart or fancy. . My answer to it, shallbe in the words of another man 
u Attersol hist. of Barak and Balaam. on Numb. 22. p. 8 11. : We know no mean between true Prophets and false, for whosoever is not a true Prophet, is a false Prophet; and whosoever is a false Prophet, cannot be a true Prophet of God. He that is of God, is a true Prophet; He that is of the Devil, is a false Prophet; Neither doth the 
† Mark this well, for it shows all the Treat: answer to be caecum insomnium, a vain dream and nothing else.  DELIVERY AND UTTERANCE OF SOME TRUTH, MAKE HIM A TRUE PROPHET; For then the Devil should be a true Prophet, who sometimes speaketh the truth; albeit to a sinester end. And a little after, he concludeth thus: Balaam was a very Witch, a Wizard, a false Prophet, a true sorcerer, famous or rather infamous, for his Devilish Magic, which he practised among the wicked idolatrous Nation, So Attersol. And many others writ so too; As junius 
x Annal Expli. Num. 22. p. 109. , Symson 
y Exposit. on 2 Pet. 2; v. 16; p. 372. , Ferus 
z Comment in Numb. 22.  Canutus 
a ibid. ; and before them, Origen 
b ibid. , Greg Nazianzen 
c ibid. , Basil 
d ibid. .  
Again, as he writes against the truth; so against himself. For in Pag. 70. 71. 
* A Letter sent to London, written by the Treat.  he saith, to name men idolaters, adulterers, murderers, etc. because they do some acts of idolatry, murder, theift, etc. agrees neither with Christianity, nor civility, but is a consequence and collection made without rule of Charity, 
Hierom: distinct. 36. ca fin.  or ground of Truth. Yet see (aliud stants, aliud sedens,) How he is one while for the thing, another while against it. Balaam delivereth some truths: Therefore he must be a true Prophet. But if another (cum Care Carizas') do reason after the same sort, he calls it (and that rightly) a consequence made without ground of truth. 
* Testimonium tuum, quod aliena re leave est, hoc contra re grave, &c Thine own testimony, which in another case is of small weight, but this against thyself is of great moment. Tull.   
3. Whereas Balaam in 2. Pet. 2. 16. is said to be a Prophet: the Apostle means a false Prophet. And the like we read in other places 
e 2 Kin. 3. 13. Hos. 9 8. See jun. notes, on the place. , not that the name (Prophet) is due to them; But given them ironicallie, that is, because they falsely assume it 
f Non quibus hoc nomen vere congruebat, sed qui illud arroganter & falso sibi summebant. Bright●●. Comment. in Cant. Cant. cap. 4. fol. 78. & 16. T. W. Expos. upon the Book of the Cantic. pag. 18. , glory in the title, and willingly would be so reputed and taken. For the other Scriptures in the margin, I know not for what end they were quoted, unless to show the reader, in how many places he may find the word Balaam, in the Old & New Testament.  
The Treat. goes on thus: He is a Prophet that speaks or declares a thing past, present or to come. And to prophesy in our sense, is nothing else but to speak to edification, exhortation and comfort. He that doth this is a true Prophet; He that speaks the contrary, a false.  
Answ. Men pleading for error, are driven oft times to use that kind of reasoning, which in Schools they call fallacia ex ignorantione veri Elenchi: which is to change the state of the question, and to draw Conclusions contrary to the true rules of the axioms, or propositions disputed off. The Treat. is fallen into this fault: For whereas our question is only about hearing in Churchway, and of Church-Officers; He altars quite the state of the point; and speaks of hearing at large. As if we should question, whether Hearing simply be unlawful; and not rather hearing with certain adjuncts: That is, in an Antichristian Church, of a false Minister, & the like.  
But to come to his answer. 1. What it is to Prophesy in his sense 
‡ The Trea. wrote once that no Scripture justines preaching out of a true Church; much less in a false Church; justificat: Separ: p. 73. , I know not, neither do I inquire after. For it is sufficient for me to know what Prophecy is, and what true Prophets are, in the sense of the Scriptures.  
In the Book of God, I find true Prophets to be taken three ways. 1. Strictly, for one, who from the inward counsel of God could foretell things to come 
g Gen. 20. 17; Numb. 12 6; Deu. 18 55. . 2. For Lawful Pastors and Teachers in the Churches of Christ 
h Mat. 10. 41. 1 Thes. 5. 20; Rev 11, 6; . 3. And more largely; For such private members 
i 1 Cor. 14; Rom. 12. 6. , of particular Churches, as have received the gift of the interpretation of the Scriptures, and so are able to speak to edification; exhortation and comfort. Of no other true Prophets do I read in all the Scripture: Seing therefore the Priests he pleads for, are not of any of these ranks 
k Quae. in what rank of Prophets unlawful Ministers are; And under what Scripture they are comprehended. I would have a private Christian ask this question of some learned divine, whom he knows doth hold it lawful to hear false Ministers. And it is very likely he will answer him by deep silence. : Then needs must they be false Prophets, and so consequently not to be heard.  
2. 
Again in p. 77. He saith, No man teached the Gospel, but was a member of a true Church.  For the other part of his answer; Which is, he that teacheth false Doctrine, is a false Prophet. Here I think we must take his meaning, and leave his words; But what he means I know not; And therefore will cast it aside; only here is a fit place to propound a question or two. 1 Whether to hold, teach, and practise the errors and lies contained in their Canons, Service-Booke, Books of Articles, and the Ordering of Bb. Priests and Deacons, do make a false Prophet. 2. Whether to hide from the people the knowledge of all the main truths, which concern the outward regiment of Christ's visible Church, make a false Prophet. 3. Whether it be Lawful to hear any false Prophet, known so to be 
l There is one question more, viz. whether the Lords Lawful Priests, which served at the Altar in jerusalem, might not as well urge their people to hear jeroboam Priest at Dun and Bethel; As the Ministers now under the Gospel, to persuade men, to hear in false Churches. If it be not all one, show the difference. . The simple believeth every word 
m Pro. 14. 15. : But the prudent man looketh well to his going.  
There is nothing more in this answer, but a little girding at some men's persons, and at their exercise of Prophecy; to which I will say no more, but in the Poet's 
n juvenal. Satyr. 2.  words: Dat veniam Corvis vexat Censura Columbas.   

SECT. 13.  
THE 13. Objection is laid down in this manner: The Lords forbids judah going to Gilgal, or to Bethel. Hos. 4. 15. 16.  
Treat: The meaning is plain, & the words express, that they were not to go thither to offend and play the Harlot, in joining to idols, Ver. 15. 16. This I grant 
‡ Nos qui Christiano nomine gaudemus dicemus nos abjicere Deos alienos, & verum colere, cum pars idola defendat, adoret, colat, breviter divinis honoribus pro sequatur. Lavar. in Josh. c. 24 Hom. 71. p fol. 81.  is to be done in no place. But deny any such thing to be done in the hearing by me pleaded for; The Scriptures every where forbidden the going, or coming to such places, or persons, as in, by, or with them some evil is done, to wit, for the doing of any thing evil, or unlawful in, or with them. This is all a primo ad ultimum.  
Answ. When Children find any hard words in their Lesson; They willbe sure to pass them quickly over; Hoping thereby to save themselves. I must needs say, the Treat. met here with a strong argument; And therefore it is no wonder, though he show us a Scholars trick: To wit, leave that speedily, the which he knew not how to answer 
* See the like answer to our 1. Object. It is Antony's precept in Tully, if men be troubled about a hard question, to say nothing to it. De Orat. l. 2. . If the Reader do not see the weakness of it (to say the best of it) I will set before him a glass to view it in.  
For 1. He makes himself here an Opposite to science. 2. To Conscience. 3. To the truth; And lastly, to himself. And first of the first: They were nor (saith he) to go thither to offend. I profess in all good conscience, my desire is not to pervert his meaning, but to understand it; But how to understand it, I know not; For his speech is much like the answer, which Pythius the Priest gave to Pyrrhus the King Epire. 
a Cicer. de divin.   
Ajo te Ae●cida Romanos vincere posse. An answer so dubious & discrepant, as it cannot be gathered from it, whether He, or the Romans should overcome. The Treat: answer is of the like ambiguity and darkness; It is an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as the Philosopher 
b Arist. 1 Seph. 4. , speaks; For you cannot directly say, whether he intends that judah might Lawfully hear jeroboams Priests at Dan and bethel, or not. You may take it either way, or no way; For it is (utroque nutans sententia) a speech like an Echo, and will say whatsoever you will say before it.  
But it is no marvel, 
Hoc neque prophetae predicaverunt, neque Dominus docuit neque Apostoli tradiderunt. Iren. l. 1. c. 1.  though he leaves the matter thus in a doubtful sense. For I believe what Augustine 
c Liberius improbare non audio. ad jan. Epist. 119.  saith of himself, was here true in the Treat: he durst not freely speak his judgement.  
But in the mean time, this showeth a wretched cause; For whosoever sees his cause to be good, he will search and weigh rather what should be said plainly and to the full: then what may be said darkly and coulorable, and so to put it off with a shift.  
2. If he meant to say any thing, his meaning then must needs be: that it was lawful for Judah to hear the Doctrines of the Law Preached at Dan and bethel by jeroboams Priests. The which exposition is an unsufferable perverting of the Text 
* Sua si docere velint, nolite audire, nolite facire; certe enim tales sua quaerunt, non quae jesu Christi. August. in johan: Tract. 46. , & leads unto great impiety; For to distinguish things in such a sort, is for all the World, as if one should say, the Law of God forbids adultery; True, but how? To satisfy lust, not to begit Children, as Sejanus did 
d Tacit. Annal: Lib. 4. .  
Again, the Law of God forbids perjury, as how? As it tends to the shedding of innocent blood, but not to accommodate a friend, as Cicero merrily speaks of Clunius 
e Pro Q. Rassio Comaed. . I could multiply instances this way of the same nature with his exposition: The Lord saith expressly, go not to Gilgal. But how say our Opposites; As to Offer Sacrifices; but not to go thither to hear the Doctrines of the Law preached by the Priests of Jeroboam. Is not this horrible presumption to contradict 
* Sua si docere velint, nolite audire, nolite facire; certe enim tales sua quaerunt, non quae jesu Christi. August. in johan: Tract. 46.  the plain Word of God?  
For to establish their own inventions: What Heresy held by any Heretic, may not by such bold distinctions be justified. I may say as a Learned man saith 
f Verba sine crimimine sunt, sensus in crimine. : The words are without fault, the sense is in fault.  
Of this corrupt handling of the Scriptures, Bucer 
g Impium esse, verba Christi ultra propositum materiam extrahere. de regno Christi, l. 2. c. 29. p. 149.  writes judiciously, 
Hilari: de Trinit: lib. 2.  and shows what a wicked thing it is, to apply the Word of God, beyond the proposed matter. If it be an unjust thing (saith he) to stretch the Doctrines and answers of a wise and pruaent man, beyond the matter and question unto which they are given; But specially to apply them to the thing which he intendeth not, neither doth it agree withal; Then much more is it, a vile thing to abuse the Doctrines and precepts of Christ in such a manner, etc.  
Of such as do so, that fitly may be said, what Hierom 
h Rhetius eloquens quidem est, sed ineptus interpres. Hieren. ad Marcellam:  saith of one Rheticius, they may be wise men, but are foolish interpreters.  
3. If the Prophets had so meant (as the Treat: closely insinuates, but durst not, it seems speak it out,) viz. that the Hearing of the Word preached by jeroboams Priests at bethel, Dan and G●lgal, (able to open and apply the Doctrines of faith by that Church professed) both Lawful, and in cases necessary for all, etc. They could easily have expressed it 
i We ought not so much, as to know the things, which the Book of the Law containeth not. Hilai: in Psal. 132. The Scripture denyeth it what it noteth not. Tertull. Lib, de Monog. ; For they were filled with Spirit of God in all wisdom and Spiritual understanding; But the truth is, in plain expressions, they speak the contrary. And unless men's minds be overcast in like sort, as were the eyes of Elymas, they cannot but see it.  
But to press them down with authority, for the preventing of error in the simple, and for caviling in such as desire to contend. We will here set down the judgement of the most Learned, touching this thing. The Prophet (saith Zanchy 
k Comment. in Hos: 4, 15. p. 82. ) saith not Sacrifice not at Bethel and Gilgal, but simply and plainly come ye not thither, noting that they were interdicted not only from sacrificing there; BUT INDEED THAT THEY SHOULD NOT THITHER COME AT ALL. Rivetus 
l In Hos. 4. p. 156.  understands it of such a keeping away: As that they might not be bodily present at any spiritual exercise there performed. So Calvin 
m Praelect. in Hos. 4. p. 52.  Pareus 
n In Hos. 4. v. 14. p. 504. Tom. 4. , Oecolampadius 
o In Esa. 2. l. 1. fol. 20. , Lyra 
p In Amo. 4. 4. , Brocardus 
q In Levit. 10. pag. 69. , Luther 
r In Amo. 4. , Brentius 
s In Amo. 4. , Fabritius 
t In Hos. 4. , Mollerus 
u In Hos. 4. , Osorius 
x In Hos. 4. , Shaddaeus 
y In Amo. 4. , Sedelius 
a In Amo. 4. , Cramerus 
b In Hos. 4. 15. , and others.  
Moreover, of the same judgement are the jew Rabbins, as Mercer 
c ibid.  noteth. He that desires to see more, let him read what the Lovanists 
d Annot. in August. Brevic. Collat. cum Donatist: Collat. dici. 3. c. 9 And Annot. in August: Post: Collation: ad Donatist: c. 20. , have written about it.  
4. If we may not come, to such places, or persons, for the doing of any evil and unlawful thing with them, than I conclude from his own mouth, that the practice he pleads for, is sinful; And so I have already manifested unto all men, except some men will contend without cause, and against reason, out of a Spirit of contention and contradiction.   

SECT. 14.  
OUR 14. Objection is thus framed: They that eat of the Sacrifice, partake of the Altar, 1 Cor. 10. 18. So they that receive the Word, from an unlawful Officer, partake with his Office.  
To which he thus answereth: 
Treat.  I deny the consequence 
‡ A Child can say so much, but he had need be no Child that shall prove so much: . The Office is not to the Word, as the Altar is to the Sacrifice. The Altar makes the thing to be offered actually to become a sacrifice, which it was not before, save only in destination; as Christ plainly teacheth: saying the Altar sanctifieth the gift. But so doth not the Office make that to become the Word of God, which was not so actually before.  
There goes a story among Scholars of Aesop's deceiving Mercury: He having promised him one part of his Nuts, keeps all the meat to himself, and delivers the shells to the other. As the Treat: gives us here but half of the Argument, so that half, is only the bark or outside. For had he laid it down (unum ad unum) according to the scope of the place, and as we apply it, thus it should have been.  
Such as did eat of the sacrificed flesh, taken off from the Altar under the Law, approved of the jewish worship 
a Par. Comment. in 1 Cor. 10. ver. 15 18 , and shown themselves to be of the same Religion 
b Calv. in 1 Cor. 10. 18. , Again, they which went unto the idol-Temples, and did there eat of the Heathen Sacrifices, joined themselves by this outward act to that society and superstition, So by just consequence, whosoever goeth unto false Churches, to eat spiritually of any of the Sacrifices there administered, in and by an Antichristian state of Ministry; He justifieth 
c Guiliad. Comment. in 1 Cor. 10, 18.  by his going, their idolatrous Church, Ministry worship, etc. and makes himself a will-worshipper with the rest; according to Paul's Doctrine in the former Examples. 
* See the Rhemist. on the place.   
How they will chop this argument small, that they may the easier swallow it, I know not? But this I am sure off; they cannot press it down with divine authority 
d Auserantur de medio, quae adversus nes invicem, non ex divinis Canonicis libris, sed aliunde recitamus. August. de unita: Eccles. count. Petilian. c. 3. . But either they must verba dare, as they speak: and use technas peiseiss, uncunning proofs: Or acknowledge it to be a truth, as in truth it is.  
To come to his answer, which is like a faggot of thorns, full of prickles, bound up with straw, the which by the fire of God's Word is quickly burned. 1. He applies things here (aschematiston) very ilfavoredlie. The Office (saith he) doth not make that to become the Word of God, which was not so actually before. True; Neither did the Altar make the thing to be offered, to become that which it was not so actually before; For we know, before it was laid upon the Altar, it was flesh, but afterwards it became a Sacrifice. The same is true concerning the Word; For howsoever the Office makes it not to become the word of God: (as neither did the Altar make the thing to be offered to become flesh) yet by the Office it is made a Church-sacrifice, the which it was not so before. 
e Daverba & decive nerve Persius Sat: 4.   
And here I desire the Reader to observe, how disorderly he sets things down. The Altar makes the thing to be Offered, actually to become a sacrifice, which it was not before.  
But so doth not the Office make that to become the Word of God, which was not so actually before.  Inguinis & Capitis, quae sint discrimina nescit. 
What Child may not see the absurdity of it? For all that he could conclude from the first assertion; unless he would conclude nothing; was either thus: The Office makes the Word of God to become a Church-sacrifice, which it was not before, but in destination; Or thus: The Office makes not the Word of God to become a Church sacrifice, for it was so before This latter howsoever it be void of truth, yet there would have been some sense in it. 
‡ Do not think that the Treat. wrote this Elenchum sophisticum ignorantly, but rather foresaw what inconvenience would fol low, if he should let the argument run out orderly and proportionably. I believe he saw well enough, should he grant, that the Office makes the word to become a Ministerial Church-Sacrifice; This Scripture would stand in force against the thing they pleaded for.   
2. For the place of Scripture, Mat. 23. 19 the meaning is: As they had erected an Altar, and dedicated it to the Lord, according to his appointment, whereon to offer Sacrifices; So the things offered to God on it, and by it, were after a sort sanctified by the Altar (f); That is, it made them public Church-services, acceptable to the Lord. And the same is true of Christ's Ministry; As it is a divine institution, given unto the Church, for the performance of Holy things, so it sanctifyeth the things, that is, makes them to become Lawful Ministerial Church-Ordinances, without which they were not so; Neither could they be so reputed.  
And this may be as applied also to a false Ministry; For as it is an institution of Satan and Antichrist, to have their wicked devises administered; So it defiles every administration, done in it, and by it; And for the administrations, they are all false, unlawful, Antichristian Church-actions, 
† Quamvis Dei solius sit sanctificare; tamen aliquo modo quae principalius Deo sunt-consecrata, ad se pertinentia, sanctificare dicuntur. Muscul. in Evang. Mat. c. 23 p. 477. Tom. 3.  offered to the Devil 
g Hoc est judicium Dei de quavis cultu & de de quavis Religione, quem non secundum verbum eius exercetur: Non Deo sed demonijs prestatur. Pare. Com. in 1 Cor. 10. 20. Fingere enim falsum cultum, est falsum Deum fingere; quia tunc fingitur falsa Dei voluntas, & sic falsus Deus. Par. in 1. Cor. 10. 7. , and otherwise to be taken.  
3. Where he saith, the eating of the Sacrifices in Israel became their Sacraments, and the Heathen sacrifices were their Sacraments: Howsoever, were this so, it neither hurts us, nor helps him. Yet I cannot see how it can be so applied. For 1. Circumcision and the passover were Israel's Sacraments; And therefore by Altar, their whole Religion and Worship is understood. As Zanchy 
h Altar pro tota religione & cultu accipitur. precept. 3 p. 534.  truly observeth.  
Again, the Apostle prohibiteth not only the eating of the Heathen Sacraments, but all going to their Temples, to do any thing there, with them, or among them; Yea, though it were not with any intent to perform a Religious Action. So 
i Respicit congressus etc. Comment. in Psul. 16. p●g. 53.  Rivetus.  
4. As meats considered in themselves, may Lawfully be eaten any where, if it be done without the offence of the weak, as Paul Teacheth at large, 1 Cor. 10 25 29. Yet if meats be considered as they are offered to idols, and eaten in the Idol●Temples in the honour of idols, 
* See his justificat. of sep. 94.  they be unlawful. The like may be said of the word, if we consider it in itself, the same may be preached Lawfully any where; But if the Word be considered, as Antichrist useth it, 
Distingue tempora & locus & reconciliabis scripturas.  or rather abuseth it, in setting up a false Church and Ministry, to teach it in, and by; In this respect the Word is not Lawfully preached; How oever here again he insinuateth the contrary. Distinguish (saith Augustine k) time's and places, and thou shalt reconcile the Scriptures.  
Lastly, I desire the Reader to make it well: Howsoever the Treat. hath said something, yet nothing at all to the Objection: For he should have proved, that howsoever, they who did eat of the sacrificed Beasts of the Altar, justified the Altar: And they which went to idol-Temples, honoured the idol; Yet now we may Lawfully take and eat the spiritual sacrifices, which come off from the Altar of false Churches, and false Ministeries; And yet not justify the Altar, nor give any honour or consent thereto; No nor any show or appearance thereof 
† Quae: Whether such as pretend to ground their practice of hearing on this Treatise: do not show either lightness in not weighing what is said: Or ignorance in not discerning what they read: or wilfulness, in doing a thing, for some by respect, pretending this Book as a Cloak for it.  Hic labor hoc opus est.  
But it may be, we shall hear hereafter of some other, that will say something to it; In the mean time we will wait for it, and proceed to the rest.   

SECT. 15.  
THE 15. Objection we have thus framed: The places called Temples and Churches, having been built for idolatry, should be abolished; And therefore are not to be frequented, specially being accounted and made holy place, Deu. 12. 1.  
Ans. What is said of some men's Sermons, I may say of the Treat: answer here, the matter had been much better, if he had named no Text; For he toucheth not the Objection at all; which is concerning Antichristian Temples, in the unlawful use of them, but of the Lawful Worship of God, in those places, from whence the idols and idolatries are removed. Now, howsoever I purpose not to speak of those material places, in regard our exception lies rather against their false Constitution, not of stones, but of people, yet this I do affirm, that as the idol-Temple in the use of Antichrists idolatrous worship, is a part of his false worship 
a Page●. Arrow. ag. separat. pag. 173. : So they do pollute in the use of such worships, as are practised in them. And that they should be destroyed, having been corrupted with idolatry, there are many Examples for it. 
b Guagninus de Lituania Casstod. lib. 3. hist. Tripart. l. 9 Sozom. l. 5. Theodorit. l. 3. & l. 5 c. 20. 37. Euseb. de vit. Const. lib. 5. c. 53 Socrat. l. 1 c. 14. August. de Civ. Dei, l. 18. c. 54. Cranz. Saxon. c. 9 & 12. Helmoldus in Sclaevorum Chron. 11. Cent. l. 2. c. 9 Cramer l. 15.   
But to let these things pass, if we may have leave to put down our own argument, it shallbe thus.  
If the false Churches of whom we dispute 
c They hold as we do, that the Church, Ministry, Worship, and Government of the Church of England, is Antichristian and false, so that our difference is not, whether these things are so, but being granted on both sides, they are so: The question is, whether we may Lawfully hear there or no.  be that spiritual Babylon, mentioned in Revel. 18. 4. Then it is not Lawful for God's people to go unto them, to perform any spiritual or Religious action; and so consequently not to hear there.  
But the first is true; Ergo the later is true also.  
The Proposition needs no proof, because our Opposites and we herein are of opinion alike.  
The Assumption is manifest by these reason. 1. The words in the Text prove it plainly: Come out of her my people; That is, remove yourselves from all false Assemblies, covenant together to walk in all the ways of God, serve the Lord among yourselves in spirit and truth, and return not from whence you are come. But repent rather that ye have suffered your consciences to be wrought upon by any unlawful Offices. And thus do they Learned interpret the place; namely, of such a coming out, as that we may not be bodily present at any of their worship 
d Artopaeus in Rev. 18. p. 198. Place. Illyric. in Rev. 18 4. : Ne quidem spectatum, saith Pareis 
e Comment. in Hos. 4. pag. 506. Tom. 1.  no not so much as to behold it. Bullinger 
f In Apocal. cap. 18. Concio 77. p. 241.  in his Exposition saith, we must fly from their Temples, and not enter afterwards into them to do any spiritual worship. So Rupertus, Theophanes, Lambertus, Winckelmanus, Wirth, Camerarius Ribera, Leoninus, Conradus Brocardus, Capella, & others.  
2. Seeing a devised Constitution, is an idol, all that comes from it, is taunted 
‡ 2 Cor 6. 1. joh. 5. 21 Zach. 11. 17.  with the idolatry of that Constitution; and therefore not to be touched, because they are unclean things: A false Church-state, is rightly likened 
g Botsac. Promp: Allegor. c. 21. de Minisi. , to the Leprosy spread in the walls of the houses of the Lepers, because of the pollution 
* It is like that filthy Bird, which carries this motto, contactu omnia ●oedat. , which it causeth to persons and things. Take for instance a city or town; If the civil state or corporation, which they have, be usurped, devised, or derived from a false power, all their public administrations are unlawful, and every one partaking thereof, offendeth; So all administrations done in a false Church, (whether prayer, preaching Sacraments, Censures, etc.) are unclean actions, and do defile every receiver; I say, because of the idol-state, which is devised out of man's brain, and used as a means to serve God in it and by it.  
As poison is carried from the fountain to the Cistern, and from the root to the branches; So from a false Constitution, (as from a poisoned fountain and root,) a spiritual poison is carried and conveyed into every one of her administrations. Nature teacheth this, where generation is betwixt 〈◊〉 of one kind, the like doth ever bring forth the like; Neither can a Sheep bring forth a Wolf, nor a Wolf a Sheep▪ but one nature is ever common to the breeders and to the brood.  
This holds true in the cause of a spiritual Harlot, as she is a viperous body, so she begitts a brood of vipers: I say all the ordinances, done after the invention and will of Antichrist, can no other wise be judged ●hen a brood common to the nature of the breeders, that is the Devil and the Whore of Rome, the Father & Mother that begat them.  
3. Because the Lord hath not promised to them, his presence and acceptance; what the Lord may accept, or will, we dispute not: Only this I say, whoseoever hears in a false Church, cannot by any promise that he hath in the Word of God, expect God's blessing on that which he doth; The reason is, because a true constitution of a Church, that is, where men are gathered together, according to the Gospel of Christ, is that only Lawful Religious society, or Communlon of Saints, wherein God willbe honoured, whereby he willbe served, and whereto he hath promised his presence and acceptance; So then, howsoever we are not bound unto hearing in a true Church, necessitate medij, as if God's grace were tied to the means this way; Yet as they say in Schools, necessitate praecepti, if we consider God's Commandment, so we are bound to Church hearing, only in a true Church, and in no other Church can we expect God's presence, promise and acceptance.  
4. Lot's flying from Sodom, and Israel's departure out of Egypt and Babylon, shadowed out 
h Bulling. in Apocal. 18. Con. 78. Ciril in Esa. c. 48. l. 5. Tom. Zwinplius Comment. in ler. c. 51. Chytraeus in Apoc. c. 18.  our coming out from Antichristian Assemblies; Now they came off wholly and fully; And were not one while out, and another while in again. But made an entire and constant separation.  
That this may accord with the thing tipified; we must come quite away from Sodom, Egypt, and Babylon spiritual. Not come near the door of the Harlot's 
i Pro. 5. 2. 8, and Chap. 7. 24. 25.  house, nor eat of her Offerings; as the wise man speaketh. We must not be one part of the day before the Lord in Zion, and the other part at Dan & bethel, worshipping before the Calves. As the Manner of some is 
k Componistae ergo, & temperatura vel ferruminatio eorum Deo ita disciplent, ut fasti lium ei ingenerant, abominationi sint, & abdicet eos. Bulling: Com: in Apocal. c. 3. Con. 20. pag. 57  I speak it to their shame.  
5 In hearing there, men do countenance, that false-state: As he that receives stolen goods of a thief justifies him: so 
l Pro. 17 15.  etc. 6. It is a strong presumption they are not God's people: 
m Rev. 18. 4.  specially when they stay in Babylon after many warnings to come out. 7. Such as will not leave Babylon's sins, must look for her plagues and judgements. 
n Forbes in Rev. 14 p. 135   
And so saith the Treat. 
* Mànumiss: to a Manu: pag. 4.  The authority of Ministers in their Parochial Parishes, may not be by God's people partaken with, (no not in actions otherwise Lawful) under the pains of Babylon's plagues.  
Before I end this Section, it will not be amiss, to examine what our Opposites do say, being pressed with the authority of this Scripture.  
Their plea is that which the Treat. 
‡ Pag. 3. & 64.  hath taught them, viz: So they sequester and withdraw themselves from all Communion. with the hierarchical Order of Church Government and Ministry, there established, they may Lawfully hear, and are come out of Babylon so fare as the Lord requireth.  
Answ. 1. They have no reason for all this they say, nor authority but their own.  
2. What they say, is a gross contradiction, and mere nonsense; For it is, for all the World, as if one should say. Be thou joined to an Harlot, and be not joined; Be ye partakers of other men's sins, and be not; Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, and yet have. Magna inter molles concordia; This and theirs is all one: Withdraw yourselves from the Hisrarchicall Order and Ministry, and yet hear: As if men in hearing are not so fare from withdrawing from the Hierarchical Order & Ministry, that by the verse action they join themselves to it, are partakers of it, and have fellowship with it; As I have before shown and proved. 
p What deceiver ever taught men to commit sin in plain expression, that it was so; But rather under terms of the contrary persuaded them to it. Nicolaitas contagia, cultus idolorum, scortationes, adulteria & omnes libidines, pro adiophois habuisse. Euseb. lib. 3. cap. 29 Irenaen. l ●▪ c. 27.   
3. Such distinctions as these are the wiles of jesuits, 
(q) D. Rain. de idolat. p. 348.  as some Learned Men have well observed. Yea the truth is, out of this quiver all Heretics draw their arrows. For let a Familist be pressed with such Scriptures as these. Fly idolatry, keep yourselves from idols, etc. How will he answer? By a distinction 
r To uphold the Heresies of H. N. this is one special & principal practice, that the history & native sense of the Word of God is altogether neglected of him, and in steed thereof, is entertained an allegorical and bastar lie construction, foolish & fond distinctions, which thing utterly defaceth the certainty of the sacred Scripture, & maketh no other thing of it, than a nose wax. J. knew stub against the heresies of H. N. p. 61 , the body is not meant, but the mind only; When we allege to our Opposites, Rev. 18. 4. Come out of her my people, what is their answer? by the same distinction, to come out from hearing it is not meant, but this and that, and I know not what. Behold here how they reason alike, and resemble those two, of whom the Poet speaketh: 
Altar in alterius jactantes lumina vultus.  
One looking asit were babies in another's eyes.   
4. This is to gratify the error of Montanus 
† Discipuli Montani dicunt paracletum plura in Montano dixisse, quam Christum in Evangelio protulisse: Nec tantum plura, sed etiam meliora atque majora. Epipha: lib. 1. Hear. 27. Tentull: de prescript. , who professed, that he knew more than the Apostles. Now, I am sure John the Disciple whom jesus loved, knew nothing of this distinction; to weet, how to come out of Babylon, in one respect, and yet in another to stay there still; For, had he known it, surely he would have taught it; specially it being such a weaghtie point, as (saith the Treat:) is both Lawful, and upon occasion necessary for all of all Sects and sorts of Christians.  
Were our Opposites of that Company, who are called by the name of Apostles, I should think that they thought themselves to be some new Apostles indeed.  
5. When the words of a Text are plain, agree with the circumstances of the place, with the Analogy of saith, and with other Scriptures; For men then, to leave the native sense, and to force a sense contrary to that which the letter expresseth, It is (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to wrest the Scriptures, and not to expound them by the true rules and Canons of Divinity. 
s 2 Pet. 3. 6.  So Augustine 
t Lib. 2. de Doct. Christ. c. 31. , Hieron. 
u Comment. in Am. 4. , Keckerman 
x Rhet. Eccles. l. 1. , Perkins 
y Prophetia c, 2. de modis inter pretendi. , & others.  
But so do these men, For whereas this Scripture speaks of leaving all the administrations in false Churches. And this well agrees with the scope and drift of the place, with the rules of faith, and with other Scriptures; Notwithstanding against the literal sense, they peremptory say, that men must not leave all the administrations in false Churches; But hear there Antichristian Ministers; how be it, this is no more expressed, than their Sacraments, or Service-Booke. 
‡ Quaer. Why a Familist using the liberty & boldness that these men do, may not say, and prove it as well, that there is not coming out of the outward man here meant at all   
6. As their distinction is untrue, so it is also new; For we find no such Doctrine in other men's writings; whether Calvinists 
a Par. in Rev. 18. 4 , Lutherans 
b Brent. in Exeges. joh. 4. , Papists 
c Douai Transl. in Psal. 26. p. 56. . Besides the martyrs 
d Pag. 93 , first and last would not receive it, lest to save their lives, they should lose their souls. It was the answer of Fredrick the Duke of Saxony. Who being prisoner to Charles 5. was promised releasement & restitution of dignity, if he would go to the false Church; Summum in terris Dominum agnosco Caesarem: in Coelis Deum. I am ready to yield to the Emperor in civil accommodations; But in Heavenly things I acknowledge but one Master. Christ is more welcome to me in bonds, than Caesar's honour without Christ. The like did the Prince of Condee; yea the zeal of Q: Marie may condemn our Opposites; For she would not hear B: Ridlies Sermon, because she thought he was no Lawful Minister.  
I remember what Diogenes 
f At malo inquit sal Athinis lingere, quam Craternm frui magnifice instructa mensa. Diog. Laret. invit. Diog. lib. 6 c. 2.  said to Craterus, one of Alexander's chief Captains, who being a man of great wealth, invited the Philosopher, to abide with him, promising him great entertainment; 
e Sleid.  But he replied that he had rather lick salt in Athens, then far delicately with Craterus. Preferring liberty, albeit accompanied with poverty, before the delicates of rich men, where freedom is diminished. This we may apply to all upright men, they will more esteem of the means, which they find in God's way, and which they may enjoy with liberty of conscience: (how little soever it be, and what afflictions soever accompany it.) Then the the large entertainment, which false Ministers promise them in the ways of Antichrist, unto the enslaving of their consciences, and losing of that precious liberty, which Christ hath purchased for them with his own blood.   

SECT. 16.  
OUR last Objection is laid down thus: Seeing whatsoever is not of faith is sin, what word of God, and so of faith, is there for this practice.  
To which he thus replies: 
Treat.  Every Scripture that either commands the hearing of God's Word, 
Mat. 7, 24. Luk. 11, 28.  or promiseth a blessing to them that hear and keep it; Or that commands me to edify and build up myself: To obey the Magistrate; or to follow after peace; 
1 Pet. 2, 5  Or to prevent offences; warrants, and in cases enjoins this practice. 
Tit. 3, 1, Heb. 12, 14.   
Answ. He that can make anything of this answer, I will say of him, as they say of the Pope 
‡ Papa ex nihilo potest facere aliquid. Extra. de Translatione Episcopi quanto in Gloss. Ext. de concess: praebendae proposuit: in Gloss: ; Of nothing he can make something. For indeed it is as frothy & unsoled a speech, as can be expressed. And if it carry any force with it, 
1 Cor. 10, 32.  the frame must stand thus: If the Scriptures command the hearing of God's Word, promise them a blessing which keep it; Command men to obey the Magistrate; follow after peace, prevent offences; Then they warrant and enjoin them to hear unlawful Ministers in false Churches. (In eodem haesitat luto.) It is either thus, or it is nothing.  
He reasoneth here like one whom I well knew, who having accused another, alleged 2. or 3. Sentences of Scriptures, for to prove his charge; Now all men know, that the Scriptures could not testify and witness, that the person had so said or done; But only condemned such a fact, if it had been proved.  
To as good purpose is this answer; He saith the Word of God commands us to edify ourselves, obey the Magistrate, follow after peace, etc. And hence very handsomely concludeth, that the Word warrants this practice. He might have cited all the precepts in the old and new Testament, and from every one of them, as wisely have inferred this practice.  
But the Reader needs not wonder to see the Scriptures so alleged, for the truth is, either our Opposites must so apply them; Or leave them out; Considering there are not any authentical records of the Holy Ghost, neither any inevitable consequence grounded upon the same, to be produced for the justification of this practice. As for the 3. first precepts: (viz. the Hearing of the Word, with a promise of God's blessing to it, and how we are to be edified:) I have already spoken off; And therefore do now pass them by.  
To answer the other places: 1. He saith, Our obedience to the Magistrates doth warrant and enjoin this practice.  
I answer, we are not (through God's mercy) so ignorant of our duty this way; But we know wherein our obedience concisteth, and how it is to be limited in things Lawful 
a Parr. Exposit. on Rom. 13. v. 1. p. 6.  and not contrary to the Word of God. As for the Oath of our Allegiance 
b Cartw. Hom. in Eccles. c. 8 fol. 195, 166.  to them, it binds us not simply, but in the Lord; For we are entered so strictly into a Covenant with God, as no authority of Man or Angel can break it. 
c Obligatio haec tam arcta est, ut nullius creaturae imperio possit ullo modo solui. Am: de consc. lib. 1 c. 3; p. 6.   
Now, we are sure it is against God's Law, that Magistrates either of themselves or by others, should devise false ways 
d Bucer de regno Christ. lib. 1, c. 1, 2, 3. Martyr. in judg. 19 , as Churches, Ministeries, Worship, Discipline, etc. For to serve jesus Christ in, and by them. But say they do? We say then we must not give any approbation 
e Bast. Castalion Annot. in 1 Cor. 8. , honour, or allowance unto them; No not so much as with our outward presence and bodily gesture: For as their institutions are real and substantial idols, so they are by bodily presence and outward gestures 3. ways honoured and reverenced. Genuflectione, capitis apertione, & corporis inclinatione. By kneeling on the knee, uncovering of, the head, and bowing of the body 
f Zanch. de redempt. lib. 1. p. 401.   
To be short, this our refusing to do their unlawful commands, is no disobedience at all 
g perkins Comment. on Heb. 11 v. 23. Pareus Comment. in Hos. 5, pag. 514. Tom. 1. Taylor on Tit. 3. p. 549. , because the fift Commandment, in this case ceaseth to bind, and gives place to the Commandments of the first Table which are greater. Some Papists are so reasonable in this thing, as they say the Pope is no further to be obeyed and followed, than it may be done without sin. So Felinus 
h De Rescriptis: Si quando ver: sed nunquid.  Hostiensis 
i De Concess: praebend. proposuit. , Alphonsus de Castro 
k Advers. hoeres. lib. 1, c. 7. , & others. A reason for it is given by Ambrose 
l Comment. in 1 Cor. 7 : They are the slaves of men, that make themselves subject to men's superstitions.  
2. He saith, Every Scripture that commands them to follow after peace, warranteth and enjoynoth this practice.  
Answ. Our concord and unity with men, must be held, (usque ad arras,) not in error and sin, but in truth and goodness 
m Parr: Expos. on Rom. 15. 6. p. 250.  For if it be otherwise, it is no peace but war 
n Orig. in Rom. 15. 5. Cyprian de lapsis Serm. 5. ; Yea a mutual conspiracy against Christ. I confess, the name of peace 
o Cicer. Philipp. 12. , is sweet, the thing itself both pleasant and desirable. But this is when it is with Purity & Holiness 
p Zach. 8, 19 Rom. 15. 4 Heb. 12. 14. Chrysost. Hom. 30. in Heb. 12, Tom. 3 p. 64.  nihil laeden pietatem, according to piety, & in the Lord. If peace should be made (as the Treat: here would have it) with Antichrist and his adherents, that is, to worship God, in, with, and by their false Church and Ministry, it would be like the peace with Antony 
q Cicer. Philipp. 12.  and his Mates, that is not a peace, but an agreement of slavery to them; Yea truly of great impiety. Wherefore as Agamemnon (in a Greek Poet 
r Eurip: Iphigeneia. in aulid.  did answer his Brother, of whom he was requested to show himself a brother, in giving his consent to a wicked act. So do I answer the Treat my Brother, who would have me to join with others in the fellowship of false Chùrches & Ministers.  
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  
My wits with thee I would retain,  
But mad to be I do not mean. 
a Melancth. in Rom. 14.   
3. For this place, 1 Cor. 10, 32. which speaketh of the preventing of scandals; It is as fitly brought, as if a man defending adultery, should bring for it, the words of the 7. Commandment, Thou shalt not commit adultery. For what is more directly against the thing he pleads for than it, if we consider the many offences which are caused by it; And that the Reader may see how forceably the place is, to overthrow his own cause. I will speak here little touching offences.  
The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greek, hath the signification * of breaking a Rule, Order, or institution. In Hebrew it is named Micesol of halting, or causing another to trip or fall by something cast in his way. The Chaldee Takul, and Sireak Cheshela, is of the like derivation.  
In the Arabian tongne the word is Such so named of unsettling another. In propriety of speech, it signifies the crooked piece in a trap, to which the bait is tied; at which a Mouse, Rat, Wolf, or any other vermin biting, the trapp falls down & catcheth the beast.  
According to Tertullian, a scandal is Example of a thing not good, but evil, leading or emboldening unto sin. Or thus it may be: It is a Word or deed, either evil in itself, or in appearance giving occasion of falling to others. 
b Daven. Quaest. 7. p. 40. Aquin. 2. Queen 43.   
Again, Touching offences, they are given 10. ways. 1. When false Worship is practised 
c Eze. 23 33. Pelarg Quaest. Evang. in Mat. 18. p. 205. polan. Syntag. Theol. l. 6, c. 3. p. 339. . 2. Bad counsel given 
d Mat. 23, 22. Hunnius in Mat. c. 18. p. 606. Melancth. in Evang. fest. 5. Mich. p. 552. . 3. Weak Christians caused to go a stray 
e Willet. on Rom. 14. Quaest. 3. p. 641. . 4. The stronger greeved 
f Eckius Hom. fest. Mich. p. 700. Tom. 5. . 5. Evil men hardened in sin 
g Zanch: prae: 3; p. 539. Art: in Mat: 18; p: 643 . 6. New opinions broached 
h Pareus in Rom: 14 v. 13; p: 173.  7. The Gospel caused to be evil spoken off 
i Eze: 36 Cent: 1, l: 2; c. 4; p: 448: . 8. Our duties neglected to the Brethren 
k Ames de Consc: l. 5; c. 11; p: 286, 287; Chrisost: in 2 Dom: advent: p: 309. Tun 6 . 9 Ill Example showed 
l August; count: Adimant: c. 14 fol. 136, 6, . 10. Consent or approbation given to unlawful things 
m Perkins on 1 Mat: 5; p. 58, Tun: 3 .  
The hearing stood for, causeth scandals in every one of these particulars; For it breaketh the Holy Order 
n See Par: Rivet: Calvin, Mercer; Comment; in Hos: 5, 10; , which the Lord hath set and settled in his house; makes way unto downright halting between Christ & Antichrist; draws many aside from their former careful walking. And forsook as when a man sets up & baits a trap, we say now woe to rats & mice; woe to Foxes, Wolves & the baggage vermin; So when this scandalous snare was first laid, men might have said, woe, wo, wo, considering how many would be ensnared, catched, destroyed, and killed thereby. Again, what is it, but a will-worship, a pernicious & most hurtful advice; a ready way to persuade weak ones 
o Daven; Quaest▪ 7; p: 40. , to think that the false Church is not so bad, but that they may go back unto it. Hence are many righteous hearts made sad: Idolaters countenanced & made believe, that such as come to their worship, do like their way well enough● in their hearts, but for some by respects differ a little from them.  
For the practice itself, it is that which Paul never planted 
p Chrisost: de in comp: nat. Dei Hom: 3.  nor Apollo watered, nor God increased: Of it I cannot say as one said in Sophocles 
q Soph. Anti. : It is no Child of two days or year's birth, but hath been, no man knoweth how long since. For if we look beyond the Treat: there willbe found no footsteps of it, either in the Example of former churches, or among the Orders, rules, & commandments of our Saviour jesus Christ & his Apostles, or in any learned man's writing; either ancient or modern; So that I may say of it, as one 
r Leo Epist: 97; c. 3;  said, How are th●se new devises brought in, that our forefathers never knew▪  
To be short, our Profession for it lies under contempt & reproach; witness, Mr. Pagets, 
s Arrow ag: Bro●; p. 59  passage in his book against us, where he scoffingly writes, that the Treat. first book, being his justification of separation, sick of jehorams incurable disease, the guts of it fall one day by day, yea he openly plucks out some of the bowels thereof with his own hands.  
Again, what watch can the Saints keep each over other, when some are in the true Church, other at the same time in the Synagogues of Antichrist. Finally, seeing we have not one Example for it in all the Scriptures, we may well say, it is a bad Example; and he that alloweth of it, allows that which the Lord never allowed. For the rest in his writing, seeing it concerneth not the point in hand; I will not therefore meddle with it. But for the present will here conclude; desiring the Lord to show mercy to such as have offended in this hearing of false Ministers; & with the right hand of his power to raise them out of this pit; and to keep the feet of his saints from falling into this or the like snare.    
FINIS.