The second reply of Thomas Cartwright: agannst Master Doctor Whitgiftees second answer/ touching the Church Discipline.  Isay. 62. vers. 1. 
For Zion's sake, I will not hold my tongue, and for jerusalems' sake, I will not rest: until the righteousness thereof break forth as the light, and the salvation thereof be as a burning lamp.  Ibid. vers. 6. & 7. 
You that are the lords remembrancers, keep not silence, and give him no rest: until he repair, and set up jerusalem the praise of world.  
Imprinted. M. D. LXXV.   

To the Church of England/ and all that Love the truth in it: Thomas Cartwright Wishes mercy/ and peace/ from God our Father/ and from our Lord jesus Christ.  
THe Church of God so oft us scripture not compared only/ but figured in the City jerusalem: serveth for instruction/ in this cause. For as in it/ the wall first broken down/ was last made up again/ and that more than 14. years after the temple builded 
Esr. 6. 15. Neh. 2. ●.  so is it commonly in the spiritual wall of the church/ which is the discipline the lord appointed/ aswell for strength of it/ as for holding out of all adversary power/ whether it be corruption of doctrine or manners. The first is to be seen/ in the Act. of th'apostles: where (after the churches gathered by preaching) there was an eldership severally placed in them) to whom the execution of the church discipline doth especially appertain. The other may as easily appear/ to him that considereth the estate of the church after the Apostles/ by monuments of those times: in which always as this fort of government left by them was first suffered to decay/ so the pureness of doctrine decreased: until the church it self (except a few stones here and there scattered) was brought to heaps of dust. If y● be asked/ why the discipline having right to enter with the doctrine: findeth not always/ that favour amongst men. The cause ●s apparent/ that when Satan can not gain this first point to hold the doctrine out of a city or Kingdom: he sweareth after the second/ that it may be there with smallest fruit/ and shortest continuance. Wherein let (I beseech you) be considered: his doings/ against the building off the wall of jerusalem. For if he bestirred himself so/ in hindering that material wall: it will be les marvel/ if for hindrance of this spiritual he trudge to and fro/ open his whole pack off subtleties/ and as it is in proverb bestow both ●vet and dry.  
And first touching the persons he useth/ in his fight against both: they are not much unlike. For in steed of a bastard kind of 
a Esr. 4. 12 Neh. 6. 1.  Israelites/ Apostates from God and his true service (which were there the foreign enemies): we have now the Papists/ who (as shall appear) he set in the forward of this battle/ against the discipline now propounded. And as now we have within the church/ which covered with the name off the gospel and off the teachers thereof/ give a more dangerous assault then the Papists: So were there then even of the 
b Neh. 6. 10. 17. 18. 19  jews themselves under governors and Prophets/ which secretly and openly opposed themselves. As for the practices/ they are so like in both: that all which will open their eyes/ may easily espy the same workman. For as the enemies then placed their chief strength/ in accusations against the church/ that if it were 
c Esr. 4. 12 etc. Neh. 2. 19  suffered to lay the foundations of the wall it would move sedition, and rebel against the King: even so our adversary/ to arm the Prince against this cause/ soundeth nothing more than rebellion/ sedition/ and such like. If this were not able to descry/ or (at lest) to give warning off this unfaithful dealing: yet this may. That these are the very weapons off the papists/ which not able amongst us with so great success to be used by themselves as those which are known enemies: have been ministered to the D. that being thrown out of his hand in whose mouth is the gospel/ they might be thowght to have been made for defence/ which were forged for overthrow of it. For where Brentius teacheth/ that the ministers ought not to bear dominion over the churches like princes: Hosius accuseth him/ that by the same mean/ he went about to 
d Lib. de haeres. nost. tep.  displace Caesar. And upon like occasion/ that we would 
e l. 2. de legit. iudic. rerum eccl.  overthrow all kingdoms and superiority: that men might do) what they list. That if the Almans, had once 
f lib. 5. de cathol. eccles.  shaken off the Pope: they would shake off, Caesar sone after. If these be compared with divers of the D. accusations/ and namely with that page 455. lin. 1. it will be marvel that (unless he were in this point taught by the same spirit Hosius was) he could jump so even/ not only with the like accusation/ but almost with the same words. But this shall better appear/ in discourse of this book where is showed not only that he hath the like/ but the very self same cause with the grossest Papists. I say the grossest/ for that in some points/ as of the church's election and pastoral residence/ there are found of them more favourable to the truth than he: which joining with Catholic writers both old/ and of our time/ have written against the estate of the Popish church in that behalf.  
And that no man's simplicity be abused by an outward profession of the gospel/ as although it were unlike that they which professed it should be enemies to the true discipline: or uncredible that the same which cry out off the Tyranny of Antichrist/ should refuse the moderate and wholesome government of Christ: it may please them to understand that this cause hath before this bidden the assault not off the Papists alone/ but even of them which make show off so deadly war with papistry: that the greatest force of their resistance/ hath been a fear either pretended/ or vainly fancied/ lest the giving place to the discipline should draw after it the popish Tyranny. 
a M. Cap i to unto M. Farel in the book off M. Cal. Epist  Capito a man off singular learning and godliness/ affirmeth that it was objected unto them which went about to restore the discipline. that they would be tyrants over the church which was free, and call back again a nwe popedom. M. 
b Upon 4. Ephes.  Bucer: Satan goeth about, that by restoring of the discipline, the faithful Ministers should be thought to seek ambitously the same Tyranny, which Antichrist did. 
c In the life off M. Calu.  M. Beza when the Eldership and excommunication were to be instituted: there wanted not which cried out, that the popish tyranny was by that means called back again: also that the magistrates office, was thereby in part invaded. Now if these slanders be compared with the 
d pa 299. 27. line pag. 459. 47. lin. item pa. 560. lin. 5. item pa. 646. li. 29. etc.  Answerers: all may understand/ that unless/ the instrments used against the discipline vary in time and country/ yet the author (misleading some by simplicity/ and thrusting other headlong through covetousness or ambition) is the same in our country/ which was then in Germany/ France/ or Sanoy. For that the discipline now propounded/ is the same which suffered this contradiction off certain professors of the Gospel/ shall manifestly appear in this discourse: and may be partly understood both by Cap●●●● letters/ written to comfort a ministre of Geneva then Wrestling for it/ as by Bezas' words which particularly note one or two parts thereof. Neither can disagreement of the favourers thereof/ in interpretation of some place/ signification of some word/ alteration off some circumstance (if any be) hinder this: no more then divers pictures of one face/ having all the same great and principal drawghts/ can hinder us from acknowledging the same visage in them all: albeit one be more coningly drawn then other/ have more lively and orient colours then other/ have one small line more or less than other. Unless peradventure/ men will be so unadvised/ to deny the doctrine of the Gospel to be the same professed at Geneva/ at Zurick/ at Witemberg: because the professors/ had in some smaller points their several judgements.  
Another principal kind of artillery/ wherewith the D. leveleth at this wall of church discipline: is ●haccusation/ off Anabaptistry. This also (as may appear) is taken from the Papists. For when the persecuting off the church in France (where together with the doctrine this discipline was established) was misliked off the Almains: the French to appease them said/ 
Calu. in his preface to the psames.  there were none so cruelly handled, but Anabaptists and troublesome fellows, which would overthrow not religion only, but the whole order off the comen wealth. And although the D. hath in this behalf travailed mightily/ and gathered (as it were) a heap off stones to throw at us: yet for fear off being convincted off so manifest untrwthes he dare not throw one/ but privily and as it were under hand: saying/ he will not accuse any, he will not condemn any. that is: he will (forsooth) not slay us himself/ but hold our legs/ while other flay us. But he shall never so escape/ the iudgemement of God. For if he were guilty/ 
Act. 22. 20  which kept their garments that cast the stones: how much more shall he/ that put stones in their hands. unless/ if we were such: we ought so to be noted/ that others might take heed/ off such detestable heretics. All which false surmises with divers others of Donatism Papism puratanism. We might with one sentence off the holy man job/ have refuted. For so are they not only untrue/ but for the most part without all colour of truth: 
job 31. 35 36.  that taking our adversaries book of accusations upon our shoulders, and applying them unto our heads (that all might read and see them) we might as off a crown, or rob have received commendation by them. Howbeit/ because there was some danger lest the D. lofty titles/ and glittering estate might either seduce some simple ones/ or utterly carry away those whose minds were forestalled with some prejudice against the cause we maintain: I thowght good once at large/ and piece by piece/ to lay forth the unworthiness of his accusations. Now I see/ there is no end of his unhonest charges: I mean not by further answer in poursuit of his old/ or avoiding his nwe/ either weary myself or the reader. For seeing the untrwth of them/ is in the eyes and ears of all: why should I travail to stop his Throat/ which (as an open sepulchre off untrue surmises) will as (seemeth) never with any reasonable answer be filled up.  
And that you may have a taste off his equity: note (I beseech you) his answers unto our defence. This is well said, if unfeigned: 
pag. 33. pag. 55. pag. 33.  These glorious words are but mists, to blind the eyes off the simple: The anabaptists would say the like. Verily if they say so they shall detest themselves/ with all their wicked fantasies: and give as sound a Confession of the truth/ as the Doctor can make any. But let us imagine himself accused off all these points/ which he surmiseth of us: I would gladly know/ what he would answer. Let him conceive his purgation as effectually/ and in as good words as he can/ make all the protestations he can/ offer himself to what examination he can: how easy is it for his adversary with the same equity he useth towards us/ to dash al. This is well said, but it is feigned: there was never heretic, which to hide bis poison, pretended not some colour of truth, etc. And by the grace of God/ we are as far/ yea further also (as shall appear) from all points off Anabaptism/ then he. But (saith he) let the like effects proceeding of like 
pag. 33.  causes, and in like manner: judge the likelihood between the anabaptists, and them. Truly if he prove the causes like/ the controversy is at an ●●de. And if the search off the truth had been his mark: here he would have begun/ where the trial is certain/ and not of the effects. Which although they be falsely surmised: yet some are such/ as may ensue (albeit after another sort) aswell the preaching off the truth/ as the publishing off falsehood.  
And surely if the anabaptists/ when they rose in Germany/ had met with such confuters: it is very like/ that they (now put to flight) would have occupied the greatest part of it. But the godly ministers/ assured of a good cause/ provoked to most solemn disputations: where all seeing their vanities/ might learn to detest them/ and themselves (made to understand their follies) might be stricken with shame/ which might bring repentance. This they did by example of the Godly learned in times past/ and of Augustine namely: Who provoketh the Donatists and manichees to Disputation/ in the hearing off all his church. This cause therefore if it should not prevail/ by force off trwthe it must gain/ through the indirect means/ and cowardly fight off the Answerer: so far from procuring this trial/ that he accuseth me as desirous of popular praise: because refusing his private confe●rence (as he some where hath affirmed) I only put him in mind 
pag. 354. / of a disputation. Whereto also pertaineth/ that he counteth it Anabaptistical: that this is propounded in places where the gospel hath 
pa. 12. 34.  been already planted. As if there were a fit place/ to propound the Discipline: then where the doctrine/ hath already been received. where should the wall be fitlier made: then where the city/ is before builded. Where/ the diche caste: but where the Orcheyarde/ is already planted. If it had been preached/ where was ignorance/ or small knowledge of the gospel the would have taken great advantage. for that they might so have abused the blindness of their hears to 'cause them believe that which those that have their eyes open could not be brought unto. Now they preach in places/ where the gospel was planted: he will make that also serve for a step/ for his accusation to climb up by. So that howsoever we behave ourselves/ what commodity of circumstance soever we have: the D. hath such an engine/ that he can not only cause it not to serve for us/ but also make against us. For sure I am/ no place could have been less suspected than London and Cambridge/ two of the highest hills in all the realm: from whence both the sound of it might be the easilest carried into all other places/ and which abounding with knowledge of the gospel/ were fittest to judge off the goodness of the cause. Wherein I doubt not/ but the good hand of God's direction/ and the example of the apostles: have been considered. who that they might have fuller sheaves of the seed of their doctrine/ pressed to the chief and mother cities/ making their account/ that the mother being won/ the daughter's round about would be easilier entreated. And although it come to often to pass/ that there is some Amazias/ or high priest near the court/ which useth both his eyes to watch that none come thither/ to disquiet his unlawful possession: yet forsomuch as it is as impossible to pull the wings of the wind that it should not blow/ or shut the windows of the heavens that they should not rain/ as to stop that truth/ which God in his holy word hath breathed/ and doth rain by the clouds of his ministry: I dowbt not/ but the voice of it is come to the highest/ and shall have that fruit in time/ which God hath disposed off. If it should not: yet every faithful minister is debtor unto his flock/ 
20. Act. 27.  off the whole truth learned out of the word of God: aswell for rejoicing their hearts in increase of knowledge/ as that thereby they might bewail their sins for want off it: and forthwith be stirred to continual prayer/ that God would incline the Prince's heart and off others in authority/ to give it that defence which appertaineth.  
Neither do we therefore call upon the examination of our doctrine/ as although we feared lest our behaviour should be examined/ or as if it resembled the Anabaptistes' manner of living: but that I might show/ how disorderly the D. goeth to work. For although before the Lord/ we (and I for my part especially) as miserable sinners hung down our heads and cover our faces: yet our behaviour (through his grace) touching that surmised of us/ is such) as we nothing fear/ but with all indifferent judgement it containeth plentiful remedy/ against the sting off all such slanderous tongues. Wise Physicians/ when the disease is unknown: seek it by outward tokens of pulse/ urine/ etc. If we had nourished any night or corner doctrine/ which we whispering in the ears of certain/ would not have had come out of the doors of our private houses: it should have been accounted to him for wisdom/ by signs and conjectures to have inquired into our covert opinions. But now seeing we have Fanckly and openly published our judgements and as it were on the Fair and Market days proclaimed them/ offering them in schools/ in churches/ by preaching/ by writing/ not only to the taste off the comen people but to the examination of the best learned: after all this to inquire by signs and tokens/ is to seek his adversary which standeth hard by/ to call for him which is present. And it is as if one/ to know what judgement an other is of: had rather take his mark by the colour of his coat or tag of his point/ then by his speech or hand writing. And if it were/ the good will of God: I would (for this matter) he had a window/ to look into our consciences. To make and end of answer/ to these surmises/ whatsoever is proper either to the heresy of Papists/ Anabaptistes'/ Donatists/ or puritanes: that we utterly condemn/ unto the bottomless pit of hell. But if amongst the filth of their herises/ there may be found any good thing (as it were a grain off good corn in a great deal of darnel): that we willingly receive/ not as theiree/ but as the jews did the holy Ark from the Philistines/ whereof they were unjust owners. For herein it is true/ that is said: the sheep must not lay down her fell, becawse 
August. 2. lib. Serm. de monte.  she seeth the wolf somtim clothed with it. yea it may come to pas/ that the Synaguog of Satan: may have some one thing a● sometime/ with more convenience/ then the true and Catholic church of Christ. Such was the ceremony off pouring water once only upon the child in baptism/ used with us and in the most reformed churches: which in some age/ was used only by those off the Eunomian heresy. As for the Answerer/ let 
Sozom. 6. lib. 20 c.  him remember that the just judge liveth: before whom (if he do not speedily repent) one day notwithstanding his gloss (I accuse none, I apply it to none), he must hold up his hand/ with Satan the Prince of the accusers of the children of God: whereunto I doubt not but his own conscience is his Apparitor/ and hath given him summons. And thus much for answer/ unto the D. general/ partly accusations and partly surmises: against the favourers/ off the church discipline now propounded.  
There follow/ particular charges: against the authors of the admonition/ and against me. Those against them have been answered/ and the answers so far forth as they touch the cause/ be in this book maintained: saving certain new charges. Wherein I dowbt not but they will take it in good part/ that I use silence: seeing that some of the smaller things are such as lie not in my knowledge/ and some so manifestly untrue/ that they need not fear any credit to be given unto them: the D. himself (as I think) not believing them. Of his accusations against me/ because some have eye aswell to the speakers as to the things spoken: I trust/ it shall not be grievous/ if I answer something. Especially when in this preface/ beside other things: I purpose (God willing) to Synk/ nigh half his later book. For if one would make survey off reproaches/ untrue surmises/ and false accusations/ wherewith he hath frawght it: beside a nwe load which he hath charged the second edition of his first book with: he should (I suppose) find/ nigh one half spent in those wares. Wherein he dealeth with me/ as certain beasts; which pursued cast forth behind them an untolerable 
Cicero. ●. li. de nat. deorum.  savour/ thereby to affray their hunters from further chase them. In deed/ they are very unpleasant: but the good savour off the truth/ and off honest behaviour in things he accuseth me off/ hath (by the grace of God) so comforted all the senses of my mind/ that he hath not escaped by this policy.  
Some of his accusations/ touch the cause: but the most part/ touch it not. of this later kind one sort are off my manner of living▪ albeit he count it a childish kind of confuting, that one should leave the cause, and take himself to the person. Here/ my ministery is diversly 
Page 25.  accused: as that I did not seek for the order of priesthood as it is called: for that is that he meaneth I should have done by oath or else departed the College. The answer hereto is longer/ then this 
pag. 799. pag. 709.  treatise may embrace: which I am ready to exhibit before him/ to whom it belongeth: because I am provoked/ I humbly desire him to receive the cause. But in a word: it is a mere cavil. For the meaning off the statute of the house/ is to provide that men should not turn their studies/ to other professions of law etc.: but that there should be to furnish the College of a numbered of preachers/ off which I was one/ as soon as I entered. Neither was there any duty of ministry/ which the College could require of me; that I was not enabled to do according to the laws of the church of England/ by virtue of that ministry/ which I had received. So that the law it self (as that whose meaning was fulfilled even with my entry) did not require it. Also the corruption of the law/ or at the lest of his interpretation (binding men to beg a ministry and thereby after a sort to testify off themselves that they befit for it) might after knowledge that I ought not to beg it/ justly keep me back. By how much more/ I were worthy to be condemned/ if (as he accuseth) I had ambitiously desired to be the Queen's majesties divinity reader: for which/ I never 
Pag. 586.  opened lip. If I had/ how knoweth he/ I did it ambitiously: who maketh it lawful, to ask it. So that unless/ he know my heart: my labouring 
Pag. 48.  for it (if any had been) is justified by his divinity. The life/ I answer to an other not unlife: that I earnestly desired, the degree 
Pag. 781.  of doctorship. Wherein beside that I moved nothing/ but yielded only to the request off certain friends: I had (before my grace propounded in the schools) the advise off more than a dozen learned ministers. Who considering/ that I had the office of a Doctorin the university: were off opinion/ that (for the good they esteemed might be done thereby) I might swallow the fond and idle ceremonies/ which accompany it. His fourth is/ that I 
a pag. 12. pag. 446.  have forsaken the ministery. whereunto I answer/ as I 
b In this book pa. 154. li. 16.  have for them whom he likewise chargeth. His fift/ that I myself 
c pa. 225.  preaching before here and there where I thowght good, now condemn it in others: the answer whereof/ is partly page 45. line 17. of his/ and partly page 41. line 20. of my book. The last/ 
d pa. 354.  that I refused his conference: which is untrue. For beside that I answered/ that it was meet the doctrine I had taught openly/ should be defended openly/: and beside that also I went to two of the university Doctor's/ to be conferred with: I offered myself to his private conference/ which although he had promised/ yet under pretence that I was (as he said) uncorrigible/ he would not perform. The truth is/ he offered private conference by writing: but having before experience off his unfaithfulness many ways/ I refused it. And thus much to his accusations/ touching as well my coming to and going from the ministery: as also of my behaviour in it. Of the most wheroff/ there are divers witnesses: and off all/ the Lord himself both witness and judge/ whose presence in this defence I set before mine eyes. Unless peradventure/ that also may seem to appertain hither: that by defence of this cause/ I 
pag. 173.  would choose myself the place off my ministry. Whereof I lay evil foundations/ which teach that no man may place himself: but wait/ for his calling: especially when by his doctrine/ I may feed in every pasture/ and lightly grazing or taking the uppermost of one/ straight way go to an other.  
In the other part of my life/ after he had thrust me out of the College: he accuseth me for going up and down doing no good, and living 
p. 241. 283  at other mens tables. that I was not idle/ I suppose he knoweth to well: Whether well occupied or no/ let it be judged. I lived in deed/ at other men's tables, having no house nor wife of mine own: but not without their desire/ and with small delight of mine/ for fear of evil tongues. And although I were not able/ to requited it: yet towards some I went about it/ instructing their children partly in the principles of religion/ partly in other learning. His other accusations/ beside the cause: are off my manner off writing. The matter is blamed: for that (as he saith) 
a pag. 207  it consisteth wholly of other men's notes and collections, and that I have 
b pa. 412.  scarce read one of the authors which I have alleged: yea and that I also 
c pag. 123.  contemn them, namely master; Nowel's Catechism. And for the form. It is blamed as undutiful towards the 
d pa. 1. 9  Archbishops, bishops, etc. namely the 
e pa. 423.  Bishop of Salisbury, and himself especially. That off contempt of M. Nowel's/ and other men's works: I detest as intolerable arrogancy. The other/ wherein the question is off great reading: I let pas. For if he be learned/ and I not/ have read them all and I scarce one: it will easily appear to the learned: beside that (as I have said) it toucheth not the cause. Only I admonish/ that he do it hereafter/ with better ground. For notwithstanding (it is like he hunteth me with more hounds/ then I him: yet beside those places I confess myself to have received/ he noteth not many/ and (that excepted of Jerome mistaken for Musculus) not one truely.  
Let us therefore come to the form. Where in my behaviour towards the bishop of Salisbury/ I would gladly know of him/ what words he could have prescribed me: whereby I might more modestly have dissented from him. So that unless the simple defence of the cause/ be misbehaviour: I am well assured/ there is no duty broken. For my speeches of the Archbishops/ etc. generally/ if all should be taken either in this or the former book against their persons/ which I speak against their offices: his accusation should not be/ altogether untrue. But as condemning these offices or their corruptions/ I make no conscience to speak contemptuously of them: so divers of the persons which bear them/ both for their learning/ and proof of godliness showed in times past/ I will not cease to reverence/ until which (I hope will not be) by open enmity against a known truth/ their own consciences shall think themselves unworthy. And this to an indifferent reader/ shall suffice: for towards the D. I have no remedy/ which expoundeth all dutiful sayings counterfaict humility, glorious and Smooth words to get credit.  
My duty towards him/ is accused diversly/ of unbrotherhood, 
pa. 4. 8. 9 12.  unfaithfulness, want of good will: made heinous/ by circumstance of perjury and unthankfulness Wherein I will not answer/ that I used not you as master/ because you used not me as fellow: but ask 
pag. 1. 20. etc.  you/ wherein this breach of duty consisteth? If jowe you fidelity, jowe it more unto the lord: if good will, the truth must be preferred: if the master of Trinity College be a friend/ the truth is more: If you a brother, the truth ought to be brother, sister, mother and al. Against what part off true fidelity is it/ to reprove him openly by writing: which had openly by writing spoken evil off that/ which I was/ and am persuaded to be the everlasting truth of God/ and reviled those/ which maintained it. Against what point/ off good will/ to have showed him the way/ whom I judged to be out: to light him a candle/ whom I saw in this point to grope in darkness. And if I did it sharper/ then your taste can like off/ beside that bitter things/ are often wholesomer than sweet: you should not think much to be stricken with the back off the sword/ which have smitten others with the edge/ nor to be lightly pricked with some impair off your credit/ which haven thrust others through/ in taking from them so much as lay i● you/ all opinion both of godliness and learning. You doubt/ whether I meant good faith when I called you a brother: take heed jest in giving no credit unto others/ you leave no place for others to give any to you. And if I had offended/ in these: yet my unthankfulness/ can not be great. You never gave me any thing in my bosom or secretly/ what you have given by sound of trump and openly: can not be hidden. But my reproaches, and (as you often call them) gybes: can not be excused. it is not meet/ that I should myself sit in judgement of my own modesty: it is unreasonable also/ that you the party grieved should. For as self-love may blind mine eyes/ and (as parents in their children) not only 'cause me not to see the blemish/ but also to think it an ornament: so may displeasure dasel yours/ and 'cause your judgement to decline to much on the one side. My conscience donth not hitherto accuse me/ in this behalf: others also whom this hath misliked/ will peradventure be more favourable: if it be first considered/ that you accounted divers for pleasant speeches/ which are not/ thereby to avoid that you could not answer. Of which sort is that 767. line 6. and 576. line 23. Secondly/ if it be considered/ that you take some things otherwise: then I written them. For example/ where I note your homely mirth of the cursed wife, and thief which stole the 
pag. 707.  priest's purse, to have been with the baggipe and not with either the harp or lute: you expound it/ as though I had taken myself to the country wherein you were born. Which verily I meant not/ but had regard only to the greek proverb/ whereof Tully maketh 
In orat. pro Muraena.  mention: that those which could not come to the honour to handle the harp, were content to use the bagpipe. Which is evident/ in that I oppose country, not your country, your mirth, to learned mirth. Here also (seemeth) should be considered/ how you have ●oden us: with those reproaches/ which you accuse me of. Wherein/ not to waste paper in rehearsal of all: I will only give a taste of your later book, for that/ off your other book in which all know your intemperancy: you deny there is any such thing/ because I gathered it not. 
pag. 16.   Adders and Sepentes swarm amongst. you pag. 50. 
A mind full of revengement, 799. Old rancour, 2. stomachs such, and arrogancy so great, 12. Stomach swelling, 109. Boiling, 56. Spirit of yours bursteth, 37. He swelleth like the sea 423. Reveal that lump of arrogancy and ambition, 467. deep dissembled hypocrisy, 467.  
A face puffed up with arrogancy and vainglory, 799.  
Manner off writing spiteful malicious contemptuous owtragious, 12. Arrogant, 32. Scolding, 12. prattling, 512. lying, 467. A shameless and wicked lie, 422. Tongues unnatural 6. Wavering, wicked, wretched, 422. Hot eloquence, 409. Hot Rhetoric, 45. Cynical Rhetoric, 391. Lucian's Rhetoric, 489. Figure off lying, 812. Whether will this venomous mouth reach? 445. Words serpentine and viperous, 422. He bloweth out, stormeth against me, 56. Roareth like a Lion, 423.  
of a divine become a scornful jester, 577. Your vein of gibing and jesting, 25. Flouting, 91. Arrogant scoffs and frumps, 336. Heathenish flouts and frumps, 470. Book pestered with more stoutes and jests than hardings. What drunken poet, profane Philosopher, or boy of grammar school knoweth not etc. 151. Heathenish confuting, 25. Babishe abusing scripture, 262. Wilful depraving, 16. Convicted wickedness, 56.  
The Archbishop hath cause to thank you for your gentleness, 374. A dancing devise, 337. Such a mighty man in scripture, and so profound in all knowledge, pag. 9 I suppose you use them as means to cast up your melancholy which you call zeal, 39 But soft man a while you do but dream 209.  
Let him take all these whereof divers are often repeated/ and if he be ashamed of them/ hid them: yet for any word of reproach I have used in either of my books/ I will find both more/ and more bitter in his later book/ whereof I have not once made mention. Where also it ought not to be forgotten how his second book is as heavy with this kind of stuff as his first: if not haevier. They say/ it is better to be beaten 
a Arist. in his Rhetoric add Theodecten.  second: because the hardness of anger, is commonly broken upon the first. But (it seemeth) the Answerer drunk in more off his anger/ then he powered forth. Lastly/ let it be considered whether his answers are (for the most part) so ridiculous/ that if he which is said to have 
a Her●clitus.  wept so much had replied upon him: he could easilier have holden hot coals in his mouth/ then have abstained from those salt sayings/ which he so sore complaineth off. Here I omit/ that the scripture doth divers 
b Act. 23. 5 1. Cor. 4. 10. 2. Cor. 11. 19 12. 13.  times use this kind of reprehending: Also that the most 
c August: 15. l. contra Faust. Manich. c. 4.  modest spirit off all the ancient writers not permitteth only/ but as it were exhorteth/ to a merciful kind of deriding. So that/ the mind being pure: the thing it self used moderately to discredit sin/ can not be condemned.  
His accusations/ which touch the cause follow: where abbridging the magistrates authority/ often repeated but never proved/ shall be seen in the proper places. There/ shall appear that I have brought it into no smaller roum: then the word of God hath shut it/ and the best learned and godliest writers both nwe and old have plainly taught of it. In which point/ let it be also here observed: how there be no words so fenced against all cavils/ which the D. will not assay to deprave. For where I cited examples to prove/ that men are said to do things whereof they 
pag. 156,  are the chief and principal and not the only doers/ and amongst them alleged that off Moses which appointed officers by 
Exo. 18. 25 Deut. 1. 15 pag. 157.  the people's consent: he feareth not to say/ that I thereby push at the civil magistrate, and infinuat that the prince may not appoint under officers without the people's election. But let him answer/ what is the instrument wherewith (I will not say) I push: but so much as touch it with my little fingar? is it because I say/ those governors were chosen with consent of the people? the scripture (as is after showed) doth manifestly prove it. Or did I ever teach it in pulpit/ 
pag. 198. of this book. Decad 5. serm. 4.  mention it in disputation/ defend it in talk/ whereby these words might with more likelihood/ be haled unto such a sense? what would this man have done (trow you) if I had (as Master Bullinger doth) upon that place of Moses concluded/ that the people's consent/ ought to be in the election of their Pastor. Not unlike to this/ is that whereby (upon a rule brought and applied as well by other learned men/ as by me to the Ecclesiastical election) he would insinuate: that I meant it should be translated to the civil estate. Where appeareth: that there is no spark of equity in him. For if the rule were given generally/ then my applying of it only/ to Ecclesiastical elections/ doth rather call it from being understanded off the civil: if it be given of it alone/ then it is clear that I used it accordingly. Beside that I have showed/ that it is far otherwise in the civil then in the Ecclesiastical government: and that things unlawful in one/ are notwithstanding lawful in the other. But thus must I restore that I never took: and be 
Psal. 69. 4. Psal. 35. 11 pa. 10. 14. 118. 171. 195.  accused off things which I not only never did, but not so much as know off. Here also falseth/ an other accusation of flattery of the people, with injury to the magistrate. Where himself giveth, me at lest this testimony/ that I have been evil schooled in that craft: which have chosen masters/ that can do so little for me. If the state of our comen wealth had been such/ as wherein the people had born the sway: his accusation untrue/ should yet have had some colour of truth.  
another accusation/ is off wrong in not setting down his book: 
pag. 2. 16. 27. 72. 89. 280. 593. 656.  as one looth it should be compared, and for fear my corrupt dealing should appear. But this accusation/ lieth against the most part of learned men: which having confuted adversaries of the truth/ have not only not set down there books/ but not given their readers so particular address for conference/ as I did. Here therefore/ either let him absolve me: or condemn me/ with them. That I did it not in such respect as he saith/ I have protested: the truth whereof shall now appear. And withal/ that notwithstanding his setting down: let the reader judge whither he useth (as he saith of me) frivolous replies, childish collections, fraudulent depraving off my book. Beside that he hath passed by divers reasons off mine untouched: 
pag 16.  yea and as shall (God willing hereafter appear) guilfully left out of his own book/ in one or two places. And because I am entered into his dealing/ having been tied now full two years/ to turn this stone of his writings: it will not be amiss to admonish of some of his practices/ whereby the reader may the better know how to turn himself in them/ either present or to come/ if he keep on the some course. In the rest therefore of his book/ beside reproaches / furmises/ etc.: one part is spent/ in naked affirmations without proof/ vented often by questions etherfond or from the purpose/ and in dry testimonies of men: both which are (as other his furniture) repeated/ and that sometimes again and again. That where the Cuckoo/ troubleth but once a year: he with his untunable repetitions of one thing to the same purpose/ troubleth all the year long. Yet hath he/ every hand while: to be short.  
In his testimonies/ beside that it shall appear/ that so many as make to the cause they are almost every one either falsified/ or drawn from the meaning of the authors: it is first to be observed/ that to answer the places off scripture alleged/ it is very like that he first turneth to Master Caluin/ if he be against him he goeth to ask favour at other: if no body answer nothing/ yet he bringeth sundry times even that nothing/ that is to say which maketh not for him/ sometime also against him. Secondly/ where in his former book/ he propoundeth certain things/ as his own: not able to maintain them in this/ he calleth for the authors assistance/ of whom he hath not so much borrowed them/ as taken them against their wills. yet he counteth it vain glory, to take 
pag. 20●  out of an author, and to conceal his name Notwithstanding/ if he had known from whom his collections came/ which he useth/ and had been thankful to his authors/ in that sort he saith we ought: we should often have had in the margin/ for Augustin, Ambrose, chrysostom, etc. Pigghius/ Hosius/ Harding/ etc. To let pas diverse reasons I gave him/ which he never thanked me for: but hideth them as well as he can/ by taking them up before hand/ or he came to the place where I give them. Thirdly where his authority is nameless/ and goeth under this general title/ other learned men think otherwise, a learned man saith so: have it for suspected/ off popery. For that/ in some of those places: he can have no other authors but Papists/ as I am persuaded. Last of all/ that he doth often bately recite them/ without applying them to his matter: or gathering his argument of them. The cause wheroff is/ for that they are not able/ to bear any argument/ the vanity whereof/ would not forthwith appear/ if it were gathered. Which is manifest/ for as much as where any colour of argument doth but peep/ there he presseth them diligently: which practice he useth in his other proofs/ albeit he precisely reprehendeth it in the authors of the Admonition.  
Touching the other part of that which remaineth in his book/ standing either of his reasons against our cause/ or answers off the reasons against his ●in both you may observe/ that the proving off that in question/ by that which is likewise dowbted of/ occupieth a great room. In his answers to mine/ he will often acknowledge no argument: Because it is not set down in the precise either order off propositions/ or other exact form of Sillogism. Which (I think) is a straighter law/ then any writer hitherto hath been bound unto: yet I will not refuse it/ if he will give me an example: the matter having now been so largely debated/ to the understanding of the simpler sort. Let him therefore/ if he dare trust his cause: deal that way/ a other while. As for divers particular faults/ in his lodgick/ and grammar through evil translation/ considering that they bring no prejudice to the truth in question/ and hurting not the unlearneder/ are quickly espied off the other: I am well content/ to hold back. Thus much/ to the Answerers both general and particular accusations and surmises: in such sort/ a● I mean (God willing) never upon any his importunity to return unto again. For as for that page 21. line 3. and such other as have manifest confutation in the places out of which they are raised/ they are most unworthy the naming.  
Having spoken thus much for their causes especially/ which misinformed by the D. have no good opinion of the discipline now propounded: it remaineth to say something for theirs/ which acknowledging it for the truth of God/ do not stretch forth their hands to bring it in/ or at the lest/ not with that endeavour which ought to be. Wherein it seemeth they do not so fully consider that before alleged/ of the use of the discipline/ the same in the church/ that the wall about the city/ or hedge about the orcheiard. If we think/ that men which would be safe from their enemies/ need not greatly to travail after a wall/ or they which would have their tender plants bring plentiful fruit and be untouched off hurtful beasts/ not much to labour after a hedge or ditch for safeguard of them/ then we may also think/ that the church/ and the doctrine of the apostles whereupon the church is builded/ may long continws and flourish without the discipline left by them. But if/ the one be not to be looked for: the hoping for the other/ will but deceive us. Whereof if there were no proof/ but our own experience: the case is clearer/ then can be well denied. For whereof cometh it that so many thousands (I will not say of men and women) but of towns and villages remain in such ignorance of all duty towards God/ and their neighbour: that the estate of their ox (which with his last breath shall end his labour/ and hear no more the voice of the whip) is a thousand times better than theirs/ whom everlasting tomentes of body and soul wait for/ and must assuredly ensue if they so remain. Cometh it not hereof/ that in steed of a learned ministry/ which should show them the right way/ be thrust upon them at the pleasure/ or permission of the bishop/ and appetite of the patron/ blind guides which scarce know a foot of it them selves: yea which sometimes (as cometh to pass in sundry popish priests that remain) endeavour to turn them out off the way/ if happily any were entered? whereof cometh it that off those which have able ministers to feed them: divers towns can not yet get out of this condemnation, is it not thereof/ that some pastors like covetous nurses charging themselves with more/ then they are able to nurse/ suffer them all to starve? that other some more unnatural than the dragons themselves (which lay out their breasts/ unto their young) by dispensation/ turn away their faces quite from them? whose mouths/ are almost never open to teach/ but when their hands are likewise to receive? And if some in a good intent to help many/ lend one hand to one congregation/ and his other unto another: yet when either of them require both hands to be pulled out of the mire wherein they stick so fast/ his fault being a great deal less than the others/ the people's condemnation remaineth the same. whereof also is y●/ that in divers of those Towns where the gospel hath daily shined: the darkness of ignorance/ hath not been put to flight. Cometh it not thoroff/ that many speaking smally to purpose off the text they handle/ or blowing up their sermons either with poets fables/ sayings of Philosophers and that often in strange language/ amaze them rather with a wonnderment of their learning/ then edify them in faith and true repentance. And not that only/ but thereby also bring them out of all taste with all simple and plain kind of teaching: so that they which do not so/ be called by reproach English Doctors. Which by often meetings of the ministers/ in exercise off Prophecy or interpretation of some scripture/ through mutual censures and admonitions: would easily be remedied.  
whereof is it/ that even where the gospel is sound and abundandly taught: knowledge hath not accordingly followed. Is it not thereof/ that the principles/ and grounds of religion are not by Catechism laid forth: that those of whose either capacity or diligence it is doubted/ are not (that a supply may be made) particularly examined? whereof cometh it that Arians/ Valentinians and anabaptists/ in divers sorts with such other detestable heretics: are so rife/ in many places of the land. Is it not thereof/ that there is no eldership/ which might assist the pastor/ to espy them out: no pastorable by substantial reasons to convince them: no authority there to decide of them/ or after decision by ecclesiastical censures to punish them. whereof cometh it/ that horrible blaspheming the holy and most reverend name of God/ quarrelling and fight/ drunkenness/ filthy speaking/ fornication/ adultery/ slandering and such like/ run over almost in every place/ off which some are so open that there is no night or corners sought to hid them/ but are done in the high streets/ and at noon days: yea (which is fearful) that often there is more danger to them that reprove these faults/ then to those which commit them. Is it not hereof that there is no eldership to watch over these offences/ to admonish the offenders/ and by ecclesiastical censures to correct them. whereof cometh it/ that in so many excellent laws/ provided against rogues and beggars: there are yet (to the manifest breach of the law of God/ and hazard of the comen wealth) such numbers. Is it not heroff/ that the office of Deacons/ which god had ordained for that purpose (the bore name remaining) is abolished: and that the Lord will give no blessing to those good laws/ because his order is neglected. Finally hereof it cometh/ that having a gracious Prince maintaining/ and her honourable Counsall favouring the preaching of the gospel/ in so long and quiet peace/ apt for the furtherance of it: there is notwithstanding so small fruit that (saving a few which the lord hath gathered) for the general estate of the Realm/ the Gospel may seem hitherto rather to have shined for further condemnation of it/ then for light or heat of salvation/ joined therewith, what price therefore we set of the glory of God/ what account we make off the salvation of our country: that estimation we must keep/ off the discipline of God/ left unto us by his holy apostles.  
This if it were deeply weighed: it would 'cause us to breakthrowgh the lets which (I see) stay some/ and make other some to faint in the furtherance of this cause. For some which desire that this cause might gain/ through a mind abhorring from contention/ especially inward/ a with them of the same religion: stand further of from it/ then otherwise they would. Wherein I willingly acknowledge Rebeccas affection: a figure off the church off God. For notwithstanding she prayed/ unto the lord for children: yet feeling them strive within her Womb/ 
Genes. 25. 22.  wished she had never conceived. But alas/ the state of men is not so happy: to obtain any excellent thing/ without strife. Errors and falsehood have often times easy entrance/ whilst the husbandmen sleep: but because the enemy always waketh/ the trueth must fight/ or ever she/ can get any thing. wherein/ to pas by an infinite number of examples: that which is proper to this place (of the dangerous assaults which this cause suffered at Geneva) is worthy of your consideration. For albeit the contention there was not in judgement only/ and in words/ but with great disorders and tumults/ to the present danger of the city: yet M. Caluin/ and other faithful servants of God/ 
In M. Cal. Epistles.  offered themselves not only to los of their ministry/ and banishment/ but even to death/ rather than they would go one foot back/ from that truth of the discipline/ which they had learned out of the word of God/ which had been/ rashly done/ if the matter had been off so small importance: as that (for redeeming off peace) they might have let the cause of the discipline fall/ or laid it aside/ until a fit time. There are (God be praised) no tumults nor uproars with us/ and I hope there shall be none: but as it is not lawful for us to move any/ so to withdraw the hand from defence of the cause/ for fear of them to be moved by others/ is against duty.  
There are others/ which as the espies off the land of Canaan 
Nomb. 13 28. etc. / confessing it good and profitable for the church: yet in respect of the manifold lets/ affirm it a thing impossible: and thereby not only discourage themselves/ but weaken the hands of other. And even here also/ I see Rebecca again. For it appeareth by the lords answer unto her/ two peoples should be divided out of her bowls: that she was in some despair off having strength/ to 
Genes. 25. 23.  be delivered of her desired seed/ considering the dangerous wrestlings and struglinge/ in her womb. And in deed/ if we consider ourselves/ if we look upon our own arms: I grant the walls against it/ be higher then will be scaled/ the gates and bars/ are stronger than will be broken through/ the children come to the birth/ there will be no strength to bring forth. For herein casting our accounts/ we must wait for not only the misliking of our brethren/ which be misled/ the hatred of the obstinate Papists which see their kingdom unreparable/ if this get place: but the deadly enmities of Hypocrites/ and Atheists/ which will not suffer their untamed lusts to come under any yoke of correction/ nor their lose affections off riotous pleasures/ proud ambition/ and unsatiable covetousness to be bound/ with any bands off wholesome discipline.  
But of the other side/ if we look unto the lord/ and his mighty arm which not only with a blast of his mouth striketh the walls/ and breaketh the gates in pieces/ but also maketh the high walls to fall/ and the iron gates to open of their own accord/ which maketh not only the weak/ but even the barren women to bring forth: No difficulty or impossibility in the judgement of men ought to turn us from any lawful endeavour/ to promote the cause. The example of the wall in jerusalem finished/ notwithstanding all the enemies: serveth here/ for our confirmation. For if the lord/ stretched forth his hand for furtherance of that material wall: he will not in the advancing off this spiritual/ hold it in his bosom. If he forsook not his servants/ under heathen Princes: he will not be wanting to them under Christian. Hitherto belongeth/ the example in Geneva: before mentioned. The whole estate of the City almost/ from the highest unto the lowest (amongst whom were also the greatest part of the ministers) was bend against it: two or three simple men scarce able to train their legs after them/ having no other armour than the truth and a good conscience/ stand for it. If flesh and blood should here sit in judgement/ the field were lost/ or ever it were begun: the friends of the discipline/ should (for that they took the defence in hand) be accounted fools/ for that they would not compound the matter/ mad men. But what was the issue? Verily the Lord so magnified his word/ in the hand of his servants/ that after trial of their patience by divers troubles/ the Captains against it/ came to shameful end/ a number yielded/ the rest that continued their enmity/ durst not show it/ the truth it self was established/ and so (to the singular commendation of that city) remaineth. And shall we/ in so great a number whose hearts the Lord hath inclined to favour this cause despair? especially seeing it is easier to be established with us/ then with them: and may here be settled/ without so much as a dog moving his tongue/ which was not there/ without dangerous uproars. For where no wholesome law can pass there/ unless the most part consent: only/ the hundredth part with us/ weigheth down all the rest.  
It remaineth/ that as the Iwes in the wall of jerusalem/ did every one according to the ability the Lord had blessed them 
Nehem. 3  with build his part: so those/ whose hearts the lord hath lightened with the knowledge of this truth/ should as their callings/ and means which the lord hath given them will serve/ lay their hands to the work. That those whom the lord hath given favour or acces unto her majesty/ would set before their eyes the example of that worthy courtier Nehemias': which (forgetting his private profit and preferment) for full recompense of all his faith 
Neh. 2. 5.  full service unto his Prince/ was glad to obtain at his hand the building up of the walls off the city of God: and therefore not to reserve the grace and credit they have with her highness/ for their own matters/ but to bestow it upon the Lords. That the Prince herself/ would consider how (to let pass the danger unto her soul) unworthy it is off her honour/ if through untrue reports either against the cause/ or favourers thereof/ she turn away her ear from hearing/ and taking knowledge of it: seeing a heathen king/ did not admit such rumours against that which concerned the glory of God: although they were offered thick and three-fold/ and that by his one country men/ against the Iwes/ which were but strangers. Finally/ that we all continually/ pray to the lord: that he would vouchsafe to open their eyes which are yet ignorant in this behalf/ confirm those which have knowledge/ and confounded them (if any be) which either for honour/ or lucre's sake/ willingly bend themselves/ against the truth.   

To the reader.  
THe cause off the slowness of answer, hath been in part my often sickness, and want of books of all Sorts: a few only excepted, which I brought with me, and those for the most part English: so that for every Place almost, cited off the D. I was constrained to seek in other men's libraries, and after I had used the book, to carry it home again. Which with what los of time, it was: may easily be esteemed. Ad hereunto: the slackness of the print. For althowgh it had been my singular advantage, both for polishing and better ordering off things, to have put nothing under the pres, before the whole book had been finished: yet beginning to print, after I had made an end off one treatise, and begun an other, it was notwithstanding scarce able to overtake me.  
Amongst the causes, why I set forth one part, before the whole was ended: one is, for that this former part rose to a just volume. An other, that if any thing have escaped which may be hurtful unto the trwth: I might (being advertised) amend it in the later part: whereof I desire the Godly reader, with as convenient speed as he can, to give me understanding.  
The treatise of the apparel I have passed by, the causes whereof (assigned by me) if they shall not be approved, by those 
pag. 40●.  to whose judgement I submit myself: upon signification of their mind in that behalf, I will resume it again in that place where I shall handle the convenience and inconvenience of the ceremonies of the church, unto which place, I wish I had reserved the most part off that Tractat, which in my book is the first.  
The learned reader I desire, that where ● confute some things, unworthy in his judgement to be mentioned: he would give that, to those that are not so well advanced. Althowgh I confess, that off a number of them the consultation (whether any were so rude as not to perceive them, without help) stood me in more, than the confutation. The reader that unwillingly readeth the controversies, between those of the same profession in doctrine (I trust) shall not loose his travail, if he desire to be confirmed against the errors of the papists: the same in many places, with the Answerers. of all I desire, both learned and others, that they would support my weakness, wheresoever and in what sort so ever it shall appear: seeing I trust, it shall be manifest unto them, that in a good cause, I have laboured also to keep a good conscience.  
For better understanding of the book, after you are a little entered: you shall (where I remembered it) find the doctor, althowgh not always in so many words▪ yet in the same sense, in a smaller letter: the testimonies and that alleged out of my former book and admonition being in a greater. Sometimes throwgh his to much fondness, and repetition, I put only a word or two: to give the reader to understand that I wander not without an adversary: referring him, for further knowledge unto his own book, when I refer you for any place, either of my former, or else off both his (a few excepted in the beginning) I follow his later book: where all these books be. Of faults escaped in the printing, some are such, as either overthrow the whole sense, corrupt it: or that otherwise may greatly hinder you. Which I have set apart from the rest, desiring you to vouchsafe to correct them especially, with your pen: considering that it is but a small labour, to you in one book, which would have been infinite to me in all. Far well gentle reader: and if thou take any profit off my labours, remember me in thy prayers unto the lord for his assistance in the rest off my life, and namely for that which remaineth of answer, unto the D. book.  

The faults, most necessary to be corrected.  
Page 15. lin. 8. put out priests and and l. 14. put out either priests or, pag. 31. lin. 26. read is not asword. pag. 57 lin. 11. read with the contrary of that sentence, pag. 66. lin. 22. put out against, pag. 84. stat R flat. pag 152. lin. 9 put out such. pag. 164. lin.▪ 26. yet R. yea. pag. 170. lin. 31. for the second invisible. R. visible. pag. 173. lin. 31 R. faithfulness, pag. 191. lin. 23. in the margin R. 2. Coun. pag. 211. li. 8. put out they, pag. 252. lin. 26. for decree. R. they decreed. pag. 261 lin. 20. pastors R. people. pa 266. lin. 32. R. for if the. pa. 273. lin. 34. in certain copies, For those alleged Titus to prove Timothy and: read those alleged to prove that Timothy and Titus did. pag. 296. lin. 26. R. Evangelists and pastors. pag. 368. li. 16. gifts, R. vices. pag. 390. li. 16 put out but. pag. 402. lin. 16. R. inconvenient. pag. 440 lin. 5. this R. there is. pag. 441. li. 9 put for as, where as, and lin. 12. R. and in not. pag. 443. lin. 2. obtained. R. observed pa. 499. lin. 22 after the word before: ad, it appointeth. pag. 516. lin. 19 for bishops R. elders, pag. 553. li. 2. put out belike such as ours.  
Other faults which may somewhat stay the Reader.  
Page 9 line 6. put out and pag. 11. li. 15. saith R. faith. page 18. li. 35. one read own. page 19, li. 25, R, proceedeth. page 21. li. 19 R. Vincentius. page 23. li. 6. they R. there. page 31. li. 2. R. spoke. page 33. in the margin put out Jerome Tom. 3. preface in job. page 37. li. 11. R. boldness. page 41. li. 5. R. suspicion. page 42. li. 21. R. not to come. page 46. in the margin. R. implicita. pa. 46. li. 30. R. members, page 49. l. 14. for R. of, page 50. li 21. R. magnify, pa. 51. li. 11. there all R the real, page 52. li. 29. put out thee, page 53 li. 9 R. that a man, li. 11. R. and not only, page 55. li. 36. R▪ herewith, page 61. li. 25. divis. 7. R. 5, page 64. li. 28. R not note, pag. 77. li. 18. R. Ancyran, li. 21. put out is page 94. li. 16. R. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, page 96. li. 31. R. remnantes, page 106. li. 4. R. snatcher, page 108. li. 35. this. R. thus, page 112. li. 18. R. tell me now, page 116. li. 19 put out yet, page 131. li. 26. R. poor, page 133. li 26. R self, pa. 145 li. 8. R. answerer, li. 8. be R. he, page 146. li. 24. R. soundness of doctrine, page 148. l. 36. R. not, page 151. li. 6. R. gift, l. 29. R. ability, page 194. l. 8. put out the figure of twelve, page 211. li. 23. M. R master, page 225. li. 20. R. I have, page 233. li. 3. if, R. it, page 234 li. 35. in the magent, R. ●75, page 238. li. 13. R. was then, page 247. li. 8, R. the whole, page 265. li. 19 R. favouring, page 259. li. 24. R. you might, page 281. li. 15 put out and, page 293 li. 20. R ministry, page 302. li. 11. R title, page 316. li. 13. he R. be, li. 7. R. most, page 334. li. 37. R. with, page 337. li. 18. R. it is in an, page 341. li. 29. be R. he, page 351. li. 35. R. are in thee, li. 36 are R. of, page 364 li 30, R seven year, page 373. l 21. R. reading, li. 28. R. dealing, page 380. li: 24 in the margin, R. 572. page 394. li. 13 it, R. yet, page 405. li. 29. R. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, page 457 li 36 for the second there, R. his, page 460. li. 32, R. in that, page 478 li 20. R. for him, page 485. li. 12. R. weigh, page 492, li. 1. put out which, page 494. li. 18. R. title, page 504. li. 24. R. chew words, page 503. li. 12. 17 29. 33. R Sozomene, page 508▪ li. 29. R. fond, page 534 li. 29. R. had said, page 536. li. 1. R. done, page 562. li. 34, R. piece, page 565. li. 29, their R. other li. 33. for other, R. their, page 566. l. 16 R. with, page 570. li. 9 in the margin, R. adversus, page 581. li. 30, R. scambling, page 585. li, 8, is, R, as,   

The answer, unto the doctor's preface: entitled, to the godly reader,  
TO all here/ in controversy/ considering they are barely said without proof: if they be affirmations/ one yea/ if they be denials/ one nae/ shall be enough: seeing they are all handled at large in this book. Except that/ off ceremonies used in popery/ whereof how untrwly he speaketh when he saith that the rejecting of them/ standeth upon this/ that we may not use, in any wise or in any consideration retained in the church any thing that hath been abused under the Pope: both hath manifestly in my former book/ and further shall (God willing) in the later part off my reply appear.   

Answer to his two Tables/ whereof the first is entitled off dangerous points of doctrine: the other off untrwthes and falsified authorities, contained in my reply.  
AFter I had ended my book/ and was entered upon the preface: I received a treatise called/ a examination of M. Doctor Whitgiftes censures, contained in two Tables, set before his book entitled the defence of the answer to the admoni. Whereof as I was glad for the truths safe which shall receive strength by it so I was sorry/ that I received it no sooner/ for that it might both have cased me off much labour/ and have served me for a good direction in those places/ which might seem to require a larger defence/ then the shortness it followeth/ would receive. And as those of the church which acknowledge this truth/ so I especially/ for whose support (I take) it was written/ heartily thank the author and desire the reader/ to use it for a supply/ where my answer doth not satisfy him. Which answers off mine/ so far as I have hitherto gone: he shall find/ after this sort.  

In the first Table.  
The first Article because it was not linked with any 
1.  particular cause in controversy I purposed to answer in this place: but now I will rest in the answer which is made. The 2. is answered page xlij. line 33. The 3. is answered page 
2, 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8.  xlv. line 17. The 4 page liij li. 20. The 5. page lxxxix. li. 14. The 6. page xcv. l. 29. The 7. page ccxlij. li. 21. For the 8. I refer myself to the foresaid treatise: especially considering that I have passed by that whole Tractate. The 9 is answered page ccccxlviij. lin. 6. 
9 14. 15.  The 14. page. ccclj. li. 28. The 15. page ccclxxiij. li. 37.   

In the second Table.  
The first is answered page viii. li. 22. The 2. page ix. li. 26. 
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8.  The 3. page. lxij. li. 21. The 4. page lxxxij. lin. 37. The 5. page xcj li. 4. The 6. page clx. ij. l. 29. The 7. page cxcj. li 1. In the 8. that part touching subtle suppression/ is answered page cclij li. 12 the other lieth upon Illiricus/ whom I named the author off that report/ if it be not in the Code. The 9 is answered page cclv. li. 16. The 
9 10. 11. 12. 17. 13. 14. 15. 16. 18. 19 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. 32. 33. 34. 35. 36. 37.  10. page ccluj. li. 27. The 11. page cclxxuj. li. 27. The 12. and 17. page cclxxvij. li. 17. The 13. page cclxxx. li. 12. The 14. page cclxxxj li. 4. The 15. page cclxxxij. li. 7. The 16. page ccc. li. 33. The 18 pa. cclx●x li. 34. To the 19 and 20. I answer as to the 8. of the first table. The 22. is answered page cccclxxxj. li. 18. The 22. ccccxxxuj. li. 12. The 23. page ccccxciij. li. 33. The 24. page diiij. li. 1. The 25. pa. dxij. li 28. The 26. page dxxxiiij. li. 11. The 27. dlxx. li. 15. The 28. page dcxxv. li. 26. The 29. page dcxxuj. li. 36. The 30. page dcxv. li. 4. The 31. page dcxxvij. li. 29. The 32. is answered before in the Epistle. The 33. page dcxlj. li. 13. The 34. page dcxliij. li. 33. The 35. page dcxlv. li. 1. The 36. page dxxiij. li. 5. The 37. page dcliiij. li. 1. The rest in both the tables remain to be answered/ in the second part off my reply.     


The reply unto the answer pag. j etc.  
FOr the four first sectyons/ being either false accusations/ bore repetitions of my words/ or profess off things which I have set down and confess: I will not answer. His fift section answereth not any thing/ to divers reasons which I have set down/ to prove that this cause can not be charged with disorder/ whose whole work is/ that nothing be done out of place/ out off time/ beside the bounds of every one His several calling. in the 6. sectyon 4. pag. he falling to railing/ doth gwilfully pass by the reason which I have alleged/ why this doctrine which we maintain/ can not be thowght enemy unto princes/ seeing it was a friend to princes/ when princes where enemies unto it. For himself can not deny but the government by elders/ the choice of the ministers by the church/ the most of those things which he especially supposeth to have war with the civil magistrate/ and are in controversy between us/ were in the times of the apostles/ when they being trodden under feet of the civil Magistrate/ did never lift up their heel against his power.  
And where he saith/ it is no plain dealing to draw that to this cause/ which is truly spoken off the gospel: he needed not to have charged us with want of plain dealing/ seeing we offer to show the discipline to be a part of the gospel/ and therefore to have a common cause/ so that in the repulse of the discipline/ the gospel receiveth a check.  
That the discipline of the church/ is not in the number of those things which are varied/ is disputed in the second tractate/ and in her several parts/ thorough out the whole book. That the distinction of the common wealth/ and the church hath been and ought to be kept of all men/ which have spoken or written with any judgement/ shall be showed in the 20. Tractate: and therefore although the answerer do a 100 times repeete this thing in bore affirmations: yet the reader shall once for all/ look for the answer off these things in those places.  
In his 8. section page 1. he speaketh off the authority of the magistrate upon no occasion/ to no purpose/ with great words/ with no proof. Then as though I had written in unknown figures as the priests of Egypt: he complaineth of my obscurity/ and that he can not understand what I mean: whereas I could hardly have used greater light of speech/ if I had bent myself thereunto. For I prove the singular benefit that the discipline bringeth to the common wealth/ for that by the Ecclesiastical censures of admonition/ reprehension/ suspension/ etc. the lesser faults off lying/ uncomely jesting/ and choleric speaking being met with all: the passage is stopped against the greater faults of theft/ adultery/ and murder. Wherein observe his unfaithful dealing/ which feigning himself not to understand that which my words do fully sound: doth notwithstanding forge things of me/ whereof there is not the smallest ynkling. For here upon he asketh/ whether I think not the punishemet of theft/ and murder sharp enough/ with divers other which follow: unto all which silence if they were handled as they deserve/ were the fittest answer. howbeit to shut up the mouth of them/ which seek occasion/ I answer: that as the Ecclesiastical censures/ shut not out the civil punishments/ nor hinder not in any part their course: so the civil punishments can not displace the church censures/ considering that as the one is occupied in the punishment of the body/ so the other is conversant in the instructing off the conscience: and we have a manifest example of the joining of them together in one/ and the same action in the scripture. Where it was ordained/ that he that came not at the day appointed/ should be 
10. Es●●▪  punished by the loss of goods which was mere civil/ and by separation from the congregation/ which was altogether Ecclesiastical howbeit it shall be sufficient here to show/ that where as the answerer should have disputed against this that the Ecclesiastical censures together with the civil punishments/ have more force to resist sin/ then the civil punishments only: not being able to answer to the reason/ as though his nose blead/ turneth a side and looking another way/ so reasonethe/ as if the question were/ whether the civil punishment were off greater strength to hold out sin/ then the Ecclesiastical/ which neither is/ nor shallbe the question at this time/ it is sufficient that they be both necessary. And whereas he asketh whether the magistrate hath not power to correct lying/ uncomely jesting/ choleric speaking (of which only question he might seem to have some colour of occasion given by my words) I answer that in saying that the magistrate doth not commonly punish them/ I neither say that either he may not/ or he will not (as he doth untrewlie surmise) but I had regard unto the estate both of our common wealth/ and of all other which I know this day/ where there are for the most part in these cases/ no courts or judgement seats/ which do once take knowledge of these causes it being also a common principell/ that the law doth not take care of small things, as it is alleged in one of the law cases/ which is reported in King Henry the eight his years. And in respect that such like matters are only corrected by these censures off the church/ they are called off certain consistory matters. And therefore I refuse not only the judgement of the indifferent but off the most enemy reader/ which hath but a sparcke off equity in him: How untrue it is/ that either we wring the sword by these words out of the magistrates hand/ or suspend the drawing of it in any respect/ upon the pleasure off the eldership of the church.  
In the 9 section pag. 6. as though the imperfection of the church were not confessed off our parts/ he setteth himself to prove/ that men commit faults as long as they be in this life. Secondly to prove that the church flourisheth with us/ he allegeth that the common wealth flourisheth: whereunto forsomiche as it is with out the compass off this treatise to meddle with the recital of the breaches of the common wealth/ and there are other proofs enough to convince the deformities of the church: I will make no answer/ saving that he must understand that in supposing divers cracks in the common wealth/ we are so far from staining the careful watch/ and painfulness of the godly magistrate (as he surmiseth) that his faithful and godly travails are rather herebie commended/ who in so sore a sickness/ and amongs so many partly unfaithful/ and partly unskilful physicians/ hath hitherto kept life in it.  
In the 10. section/ pag. 6 where he saith/ that the threatening off the Prophethe appertaineth to other realms/ which 
Esay 60. 12.  refuse and persecute the gospel/ and can not belong unto ours: the discipline being as it is propounded/ and offered to be proved/ a part of the gospel/ must needs arm the lord against the refusers and so much the more/ as it coming into the church as into her home/ is therefore more dangerously rejected. And where the answerer in words calleth for fruit of the gospel: In this enmity which he hath with the discipline of the church pulling down the hedge wherewith the lords orchyarde should be false from the invasion of hurtful beasts: he is as friendly to the fruits of the gospel/ as the east wind is to the fruits of the earth. For the Discipline of the church being one of the most excellentest means that the lord hath ordained/ to 'cause the doctrine of the gospel to fructify: he is found a nourice of that barrenness against which he exhorteth.  
In the 11. section pag. 7. he hath broken his bridle again/ and in leving the matter in hand/ he run̄eth to his old accusations/ whereunto I have not to answer. That there is no head of the church but only Christ/ shall be showed in the treatise of the Archebishopp/ into which question this falleth. And lest nothing should be said for answer to that which I had set down: the gloss hath here charged me/ that I make more off the government then of the gospel/ which is a manifest untrewthe/ for I speak of the discipline as off a part of the gospel/ and therefore neither under/ nor above the Gospel/ but the Gospel. But the reason which he addeth is to be noted: for (saith he) he likeneth the estate of the church/ to the wandering in the wilderness. first of all though I did liken the estate of our church now destitute of the discipline/ unto the estate of the church which was in the wilderness: there is wherwithe that similitude is supported. For as divers laws were given unto the jews in Mount Synay/ the practise whereof they could not have/ until they came into the land of Canaan: even so the doctrine of the Gospel/ cannot have the full practice/ unless it have thereunto joined the discipline. But to cut off all occasion off cavilling/ if I had not fallen upon them that seek it/ I expressed wherein the bringing in of the discipline should have been like the conduction of the people into Canaan: not in that it is either better/ or not so good as the doctrine of the gospel: but in this/ that as then the people had their full deliverance/ when they came into that land: so we by this addition of Discipline to the doctrine of the gospel/ together with a whole and entire deliverance out of the thraldom of the popish Aegyte/ might have greater freedom in the city of God which is his church.  
The other Cavil is off the same sort. For as I propounded the upright kings to be followed/ in their whole and full reformations: so those which halted I set before/ to the intent they should be avoided/ in that their reformations were not through/ and therefore where a reformation is not full/ although the want be not in the same point in which they were behind: yet therein it resembleth them/ that as they/ so this is unperfect. Beside that it is untrue that all those kings / which I said to have carried the mark and spot of their imperfection/ suffered manifest Idolatry/ as it appeareth 
1. Reg. 15.  in the example of king Asa. Unto the next section I answer nothing.   

To the 13. sect. pag. 9  
GEinge the church of Christ gathered among the jews/ 
Act. 10.  and S. Peter himself were ignorant off one of the greatest mysteries of Christianity/ concerning the manner of the calling off the Gentillee: it ought not to seem strange unto us/ if those famous Martyrs were ignorant/ off some principal point commanded by the word of god. And if it be replied/ that this ignorance falleth not into the holy order of the martyrs of Christ/ and that the lord leaveth not those which are witnesses unto death/ in ignorance of any such necessary point: Cyprian and justin Martyr/ (whereof beside other smaller errors the one held/ that those which were baptised by the heretics/ were to be baptised again: the other was a Chiliast/ and said that the faithful/ should in the general resurrection line with Christ here upon earth 1000 years:) I say these two godly Martyrs are sufficient profess/ that the glory of martyrdom/ doth not free men from being in danger of ignorance/ off some necessary doctrine commanded in the scripture. Origene (if he were as it written of him a Martyr) had so many/ and so gross errors/ that he had need have very favourable interpretation/ to make him hold the foundation of Religion: especially though they be his works which go under his name.  
And if it be further said/ that albeit those martyrs did err in such weighty matters: yet it is to be supposed that before their deaths/ they changed opinion: I say that that can be by no likelihood supposed. For then undoubtedly they would have called back their former opinions/ and not have suffered them to the hurt off the church/ to have lived after theredeathe. If this be not sufficient/ to show that godly Maxtyrs may remain in the ignorance of some necessary point of Religion: our own Ecclesiastical stories/ do furnish us with diverse examples off godly Martyrs/ off all sorts/ and all times/ but especially in the beginning (when the day of the light off the Gospel/ began to peep out of that night off popish darkness wherein we were) who even in there examinations before their martyrdom/ affirm the contrary off that whereof we are clearly taught in the word of God. I have not the book by me/ but I well remember there mentioned of a notable man/ and of the later Martyrs/ which affirmeth a very gross descent of our saviour Christ into hell: which is an error in one of the articles off our faith. Another granting such a Purgatory after this life as the papists do imagine/ and others also diverse failing in substantial points of doctrine: whereby whatsoever becometh off this place of Nehemias'/ yet that is true which I set down: that both good men/ and learned/ and martyrs/ may not only be ignorant/ but also hold/ the contrary of some substantial points of Religion. So that if the example which I used/ should not serve: yet the doctrine which I set down is true and unshaken/ yea (saving only a bore denial) untouched.  
And because the Answerer holdeth out the Slidinges of the most excellent servants of god/ to hide this unfaithful dealing with the church in this resistance against the truth: he must understand that their want in these things/ is so far from making his fault less/ that it shall weigh so much more to his condemnation/ by how much the lord hath offered the knowledge of those things unto him which (he disdainfully rejecting) would without all controversy have been joyfully embraced off those blessed Martyrs. And if he had rather here this sentence off an other then of me: it is that which Cyprian in a certain Epistle writeth/ where all 
Cyp. lib. 2. Epist. 3.  this is confirmed when he saith: That if any of our predecessors either by ignorance, or by simplicity did not hold that which the Lord did by his commandment and example teach: that the Lord would forgive that simplicity: But unto us (saith he) which are admonished & instructed, there is no such pardon left.  
And although he now whiteth there tombs with a few faierr words: yet it is to be feared/ that if they were alive/ and should but a little touch his boil: all the learning and godliness they had/ should not be able to harness them from those darts of his tongue/ which others have felt. And it shall appear I dowbt not or ever we have done/ whether he bear that reverence/ which he pretendeth/ when I shall have showed/ that the principal points which are debated between us/ and which he is so loath to forgoo/ be clear and manifest assertions/ partly off the eldest and most ancientest professors of the gospel/ and partly of the most famous/ learned martyrs in this our land: I say when these things shallbe showed it shallbe discovered: whether this price which he seateth of there judgement/ hath risen of their excellency in virtue/ and learning/ or rather of that cause which I have before observed.  
In the allegation of the place of Nehemias'/ if I would follow the answers train/ I need not retract any thing. For I could allege/ upon that that both before and after there is rehearsed the same story which was spoken off in Esra/ the feast off tabernacles is like to be all one/ spoken off in Esra/ and in Nehemia: howbeit because there are reasons which lead me to think otherwise: I willingly confess that the story of the celebration of the feast of tabernacles in the third of Esra/ maketh against that I said/ of not holding that feast so many years. But I deny that the answerer in all this great triumph/ either doth or can loose my hold off that place/ whereby I confirmed the continuance off so many years in omitting that/ which ought to have been done by the commandment of god. For notwithstanding the feast were celebrated: yet it can not be showed/ that it was kept in such 
23, Levi.  sort as it ought/ with booths made of certèine leaves/ and boughs commanded in the law. And that the words of the book of Nehemias'/ which affirm that the children of Israel had not done so from the time/ etc.: are not referred only to the joy which was great in that feast/ but unto the keeping of it with boughs ●● in times passed omited/ there is this likelihood: that the story showeth/ how they had celebrated the first day of the feast without any of those boughs prescribed/ and that the second day of the feast/ hearing the law read which commanded those boughs/ they corrected their error werupon imediatelie follow these words of the book that the children of Israel had not done so, from the time of josuah the son of Num, whereby appeareth that there was a general ignorance of the manner of solemnizing that feast/ even in Esra the high priest/ whose expertness and knowledge in the law of god/ together with a fervent zeal to seek the lord/ is so highly commended off the holy ghost. And if the Hebrew conjunction Vau, which followeth immediately/ be taken in the proper signification: the words of the text will not suffer that word (So) to be referred to any other thing/ then to the omitting off that commandment of the lord/ by the space of so many years as I have assigned. so that unless I will yield him this place willingly: he is not able with any force of reason/ to wring it out of my hands.  
The places off the kings and Chronicles are not like unto this: for the speeches are plain and clear there which is not so in this place/ especially to that end/ that he would carry them. Where he asketh whether he should say) That I have not read the place, or do not understand it, or willingly and wittiinglie abuse it or received it in some notes from others) let it be free to him for me to say either of them/ or all of them together. But where he saith he, will say none of them/ and yet in another place twenty lines after/ chargeth me with the most heinous of them all that is with wilful depraving off the Scriptures: except he can bring it to some figure of Rhetoric/ which willbe hard for him to do: it is to open an untruth/ joined as it should seem/ with a great excess of envy and displeasure: the stream whereof was so strong/ that it did as it were by force/ carry away the truth of his promise.   

Unto the 14. section.  
I Only prove that their high estate ought not to shadow the cause in hand: I say nothing less than that men in high estate can not have the truth: their is no syllable sounding that ways/ the contrary I plainly affirm/ that many off the Nobility and gentry/ be Zealous and religious. To what end therefore these places out of Isay/ Gualther/ Bullinger to prove a thing not only not denied/ but plainly afmed? For if he think Master Bullingers' sentence doth hinder/ that the saying off S. Paul to the Corinth. can not be understanded of these times: he is greatly abused/ considering that the reason which the apostle there useth/ which is that no flesh should glory in the sight of God/ reacheth to the whole estate of the kingdom of Christ/ and is not proper to that time. And when Master Bullinger saith that it came to pass especially in that time/ he excludeth not the times that follow.  
Where as he saith the simple and plain meaning of the text to be/ that god in his election to eternal life/ hath neither respect to learning/ nobility/ riches or any such thing: he do the manifestly corrupt the sentence off the Apostle/ and the whole process of his diputation. for the apostle going about to maintain/ the naked simplicity of the preaching off the word of god/ against those that would have the word preached in the swelling words of man's eloquence: amongst other reasons useth this/ that the lord useth for the most part other means to do his/ then the wisdom of men would choose to do their matters. And therefore that the simple kind of preaching/ without all pomp and bravery of speech/ might semelesse strange: he showeth the same to come to pass in the calling of god/ in which he taketh the most unlikely in man's judgement/ and passeth by those that the wisdom of man would soonest take. And albeit it be to an other end/ this sentence off S. Paul is the same in effect with that off S. james: that god chooseth the poor in the world rich in faith. Now although it be true/ that god hath not respect 
jam. 2. 5.  to riches/ or poverty/ nobility/ or base degree in his eternal election: yet who is there so void of all judgement/ that will say that the true and simple meaning of S. james in this place is/ that god in his eternal election hath no regard to riches/ or poverty? When he therefore reproveth them to whom he wrote for that they rejected the poor which the Lord for the most part chooseth/ and made much of the rich/ which he for the most part rejecteth.  
Saint Paul therefore showeth not only what came to pass in those times: but what for the most part cometh/ and shall come to pass/ unto the worlds end in the Kingdom of Christ: even that he had before learned of our saviour Christ/ that the poor as those that are afflicted/ and cast down with the sense off their miseries/ oftentimes do gladlier receive the gospel. Neither followeth it hereupon that the rich and noble are shut out of the kingdom of God/ or that riches of themselves make men less apt to the kingdom of heaven/ seeing Abraham the father off the believers was rich: or else that the rich sometime go not before the poor in receiving off the gospel: which we read to have come to pass in Beroe/ and Thessalonique/ and which sometimes cometh to 
Act. 17.  pass not only in one city/ but in a whole realm/ that the nobility embrace the gospel/ and the base sort despise it. But this I say which also the Apostle meaneth/ that the common and most usual calling of God/ resteth in more off the poorer than off the richer sort: that the rich and noble that have received that benefit of this holy calling/ may learn thereby the better to esteem the treasure they have/ and the faster to hold y●. But I fear jest in confuting his absurdity/ I become almost as absurd as he.  
You allow nothing which maketh against you/ and that you may say true all Scriptures be they never so plain/ must be falsified. The place off the Chronicles in the 29. chapter/ is no collection/ but the plain and manifest words of the Scripture/ and so clear that it was not possible to have had clearer words. For after that the holy ghost had said/ that the levites the priests brethren/ had helped them until the work were done/ and until the priests had sanctified themselves/ he addeth the reason 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is, for the Levites were more upright in heart in sanctifying themselves then the priests. And here the faith of the Answerer which he useth with his reader is to be observed. Which having one only translation to meintaine himself/ against a manifest truth of the scripture/ hath followed that/ and left not only the truth of the Hebrew/ but all other translations both of the greek (whereof the old interpreter is nothing else but a translator) and of the latin Munster/ Pagnine/ Leo juda/ Castalio and other translations in other languages/ which I am persuaded with one full consent/ have amended the error of the vulgar translation in latin. and yet he is not ashamed to say/ that some translation seemeth to insinuate sun such thing as I have set down/ in steed that he should have said: all translations the old only excepted/ so expound it: he speaketh as though some one translation only had so turned. And in steed that he should have said they plainly and clearly declare it/ he saith that it seemeth in some translation to insinuate: and where he should have said/ the same thing that I have set down he saith some such thing. And on the other side when he speaketh of the translation Which serveth his humour. He saith/ That if credit may be given to those which be notable learned men, speaking in the plural numbered/ as though there were a numbered/ that had so translated it: when beside the old translator/ he is not able to show so much as one. For where he saith that Pelican translateth those words/ etc. he is a-abused: for they are the words of the old translator/ and not of Pelican/ who never set forth any translation. I grant that Pelican being deceived by the old interpreter so expoundeth it: but what is that against so manifest both light of the text/ and consent off all other learned men/ which all with one consent refuse the old translation as that which doth open violence unto the truth: so that I persuade myself that even the very papistes/ as the monk Isiodorus Clarius/ hath in this point reformed the old translator. And it is a mere fable/ that the Levites could be sanctified easilier/ or in shorter time than the priests: neither is their any such thing in all the law of Moses. For as touching the corporal pollutions/ that happened unto men by touching of things which the law counted unclean and common or off what other means soever men were made unmeet/ to come either into the congregation of God/ or other society of men: the purgation and cleansing according to the kind of pollution/ was the same and in the same time/ not only unto the priests and Levites but also unto the common people/ and this answer is manifestly overthrown by the words of the text. for in that there were some priests sanctified as well as the Levites: it proveth manifestly that the cause off stay was not in the time that the ceremony off sanctifing required/ for than that should have also stayed the rest off the priests.  
And where he saith Surely the very circumstance of the place doth prove that sense to be true: there can no words be sufficient to declare this boldness. For where the holy ghost doth assign the cause off the fewnes of the priests in the work off the lord/ in plain words for that the Levites were more upprighte in heart to sanctify themselves then the priests: he would make us believe that the cause of their fewnes in that work was that which he hath imagined: whereof there is not a letter in the scripture. For that there were to few priests to fleay the sacrifices I grant: that the Levites helped the priests until other priests were sanctified/ I likewise grant: but that the cause off this fewnes was either the want of number of those which were in the order and degree of priesthood/ or for that more time was bestowed in sanctifying the priests than the Levites (which he imagineth) I deny/ and against his imagination oppose the manifest words of the holy ghost.  
In the place also of the 30. of the Chronicles/ it is manifest that the people were more earnest/ then either the priests or the Levites. And although the answerer have here neither corrupt translation/ nor untrue exposition/ nor patch off reason to set against it: yet he will not yield himself to the truth. The holy ghost declaring the readiness of the people of judah/ in assembling themselves so speedily/ and with so general a consent/ and their zeal in breaking down the monuments of Idolatry/ first at jerusalem (as appeareth both in the last verse of the 29. chapter/ and in the verse going before this place) and afterward in the whole country of judah (as appeareth in the beginning off the next chapter) if he had said nothing else yet it might have been gathered. But when he addeth immediately after he had spoken off the readiness/ and zeal of the people/ that the Levites and the priests were ashamed: if this be not the cause/ I would gladly learn of the answerer what should be. And the Rabbins although they often times wring the words of the text/ to cover the shame off their nation/ and especially off those which were in public charge: yet durst never attempt to strive against such light off words as be here: but in both those places off the Chronicles/ confess the faults off their 
Schelomo jarchi.  priests and Levites. And one of them in this place giveth this reason/ why the priests and Levites differred their sanctifying of them to the work of the lord/ namely for that they could not believe that king Ezechias meant good faith and therefore held of and stood aloufe/ because they suspected that the king would return to his father's train of Idolatry/ as it cometh often to pass in those that serve the time/ which wait upon what side the wind will turn.  
And that ought not to seem so strange a thing unto the answerer/ considering that beside this place/ there is example of this untowardness of the priests/ and Levites in respect of the people in an other place/ for when king Artaf hasta had given leave unto the jews to return unto jerusalem/ 
Esra. 8. ca 15, verse.  for the advancement of the service of God with Esra: it appeareth that there were of all sorts of men which willingly accompanied Esra in his journey/ but of the the levites either priests/ or which were simply Levites/ there was not found one/ until such time as Esra was feign to use his authority which the king had granted him for the causing of them to come.  
Unto the three next sections being reproaches/ I answer not/ for it is unworthy to be answered/ which he speaketh off contrariety with myself/ because I acknowledge the Bishops my superiors/ which would have equality of the ministery.   

To the next pag. i3. I answer.  
IT is not enough for you to corrupt the holy scripture sentence by sentence/ but you must also overthrow at once the meaning of three whole chapters together. seemeth it a small thing in your eyes to confounded things diverse/ but you must mingle those which are clean contrary. For S. Paul doth not in the eight/ ninth/ and tenth chapters speak against those which strine about outward things/ but quite contrary disputeth against those which meinteined the free use off all outward things without exception: not against the spiced conscience of some weak brethren/ that made scruple of things where was none/ but against the senseless conscience of those/ which under pretence of liberty off outward things/ gave occasion of dangerous falls unto the weaker brethren/ and which considering only what was in the own nature lawful/ had no regard to the circumstances of place and persons/ wheryupon he showeth things otherwise in themselves lawful/ to be through circumstances as touching the use unlawful. And especially in the tenth chapter he confuteth the very self same reason/ which the A. towieth so roundly with in this place: which was/ that for so much as the eating at the Idols feast/ was but an outward thing/ and went no farther then to the belly: therefore it was indifferent to be used or left at a man's discretion. So the place (than the which their is none stronger in the whole body of the Scripture/ to bind and keep in the lavish use of Christian liberty) that the A callendgeth for the enlarging of it betonde the bounds that God hath set in his word.  
And whereas he saith that S. Paul declareth their contentions which separate themselves from the church for external things: S. Paul maketh no mention there either of contention or division from the church/ neither in deed they which abused then their liberty contended with the weaker/ but contemned them. Also of dividing themselves from the church in that place is not a word/ who soever will read those places with a little diligence/ shall easily perceive that this is the matter which the Apostle giveth out in that place. As touching external things for which the church of Christ may not contend/ they are such as (there being no commandment of God directly to use them or not to use them) are left in the discretion of the faithful to be ordered the most to Gods glory and edifying one of an other: therefore as I think termed off learned writers external/ for that they come not unto the conscience/ nor bind not it. For otherwise that difference off external and internal things/ is not sufficient to give to understand/ which are things indifferent/ or unindifferent. For neither are all external things left to our discretion/ as I have showed: and there are some internal things/ as off certain inward thowghtes and opinions which are not imputed unto us for sin/ whether side soever we think or judge of them. As if I think in myself that there was never such a Hector/ or Achilles'/ or troy as is described off Homer and virgil/ I sin not: and if I think there was/ neither is that imputed unto me for sin. But these things which be in controversy seeing we offer to prove them commanded/ and necessary by the word of God: how cometh it to pass that you lash out so many places out of Bullinger/ and Zuinglius against those/ which trouble the church for indifferent things: as though you had already gotten that which you confess by and by to be in trial: that these things which we demand are not necessary? What order of judgement is this/ first to give judgement or ever the cause be heard? if you will needs be both party and judge/ at lest you should have saved these until you have as you promised showed the untreweth off our cause. And therefore hereafter as often as you do importunately and unstill fully heap so many places together: you shall have for answer ● plain blank.   

To the 16. sect. pa. 14.  
WHether you have either scripture or godly learned author for your warrant in your assertions/ partly hath been already showed/ and more shall appear. But you must learn that the part of a faithful teacher in the church of god/ is neither to propound any thing to the church/ neither to reject that which is propounded by other/ off credit off any godly/ learned/ zealous man. And although this be to much/ yet that which he writeth in the 200. pag. is to far out of all square. Where he affirmeth that the argument of authority/ whether out of the Scriptures/ or out of the interpreters of the Scripturrs/ is the best reason that can be brought in divinity. To both I will answer here in the beginning that the reader may have wherewith he may beware/ and know how to estenie both his and our proofs. And first of all seeing the Apostle teacheth Timothy/ that the Scripture inspired by 
2. Tim. 3.  the holy ghost/ is the only rule for the minister (which he calleth the man of god) either to establish or overthrow what soever may fall in question in the church: And S. Peter saith that who soever speaketh in the church must speak as the words of god: And seeing all the godly zealous learned men in 
1 Epist. 4.  the world are not able to authorize or displace any doctrine in the church without the word of god: I leave it to be considered how daungerouslye he maintaineth his answer to be good for that it hath ground either of the word of god/ or the judgement of some godly iearned man/ and let it be weighed whether this be to set up an other Doctor in the church than Moses or our saviour Christ.  
touching that the authority of the Scripture in divine matters ought to prevail/ I willingly grant: but that the argument of the authority of men which have interpreted the Scriptures/ is the best reason in controversies of divinity/ but off the Papists (whose strongest towers are in the testimonies of the Doctors) was never hard off. And though there be nothing more Papistical than this assertion: yet the doctor holding the name and profession of the gospel/ may to the utter subversion of it/ cause this to be printed and fly abroad. And that the authority off learned men should be the best proof in divine matters/ hath more absurdities in it/ then it hath words. For first their authority is here set in the same rank with the authority of the Scripture/ in that/ as the authority of the Scripturr/ so it also/ is set in the superlative degree of the best proof Then their authority being preferred unto all reasons/ is preferred unto the reasons drawn out of the Scripture: which in every divinity cause almost/ beside the authority are diverse: drawn off the causes and off the effects/ etc. thirdly it is absurd/ to perferr the authority of any man (which is only his bore affirmation) unto his one reason and discourse. And seeing the end off proofs in controversies of divinity/ is that faith may be engendered in minds/ which only can be grounded on the word of God: what a miserable/ yea what ● cursed faith shall that be/ that is hanged off the authorit●● of men: which be they never so learned/ yet are they (because they be men) Liars/ such as deceive/ and be deceived.  
And whereas he saith that an Argument of authority hath an other weight in our profession/ then it hath in human sciences: I confess it hath so/ if the authority of the Scripture be considered: But as for the authority of men/ for the which cause he allegeth this/ y● is far otherwise. For if the authority of man in human sciences/ and in men's matters/ be off small force: of how how much less force ought it to be in Gods matters? it is clean contrary therefore to that the D. saith. For although that Kind of argument of the authority of men/ is Good neither in human/ nor divine science: yet it hath some small force in human sciences: for as much as naturally/ and in that he is a man/ he may come to some ripeness of judgement in those sciences. Which in divine matters hath no force at all/ as of him which naturally and as he is a man/ can no more judge of them/ then a blind man of colours. Yea so far is it from drawing credit if it be barely spoken without reason and testimony of Scripture: that it carrieth also a suspicion of untruth/ whatsoever proceeded from him/ which the Apostle did well note when to signify 
Rom. 3.  a thing corruptly spoken/ and against the truth/ he saith: that it is spoken according unto man: he saith not as a wicked or lying man/ but simply as a man. And although this corruption be reformed in many: yet forsomuch as in whom the knowledge of the truth is most advanced/ there remaineth both ignorance/ and disordered affections (whereof either/ turneth him from speaking off the truth) no man's authority with the church especially/ and those that are called and persuaded off the authority of the word of God/ can bring any assurance unto the conscience. So that if all that the D. affirmeth were true (as it is untrue): and if all those authorities which are alleged were faithfully/ and according to the meaning of the writers cited (as they are almost all writhe/ and falsified) yet being for the most part/ upholden by the bore authority and credit of men/ they can give no rest to any Christian conscience which shall lean upon them.  
And if he say/ that those men have not spoken without reason and warrant off the word of god: then besides that he is greatly to blame/ that bringeth not the reasons which moved them to think so/ and whereupon as upon certain pillars that sentence might stand: it falleth out still against him that the argument of authority hath no force: as that which hath no credit of itself/ but as altogether lame is feign to borrow feet of an other. And then the D. should have considered/ that for so much as the reason of authority standeth for the cause and sake of an other/ that is to say for the argument of causes and other places: it must needs be worse than the arguments whereupon it hangeth. for that for whose cause another thing is/ is better than the thing which dependeth upon it. And thereby further followeth that forsomuch as reason without authority is good/ and authority without reason nothing worth: that those arguments which are grounded upon reasons/ be better than those which are grounded upon authority. And whereas peradventure he will seek some colour of defence of his absurd speech/ in the words which he addeth (of such learned men as do rightly interpret the scripture:) that addition as it taketh not away from the absurdity: so it addeth to the folly and impropretie of speech. For besides that he taketh that for granted/ which is the question/ that is to say whether it be rightly interpreted or no: he should have understanded that the rightness of the interpretation/ dependeth not upon the authority of the man/ or in that such a godly or learned man did so interpret it: but in that the place is expounded agreeably unto the suit of the text.  
And that the D. which under the name off ancient authority would oppress the truth/ may understand that even in this magnifying of authority/ he is not so good a scholar o● disciple off his pretended masters: of diverse sentences of the fathers themselves (whereby some have likened them unto brute beasts without reason/ which suffer themselves to be led by the judgement and authority of others: some have preferred the judgement of one simple rude man alleging reason/ unto companies off learned men) I will content myself at this time with two or three sentences. Ireneus saith/ Whatsoever is to be showed in the scripture: can not be showed but of the scriptures themselves. 3. l. 12. c. jero. saith: Not man be he never so holy or eloquent hath any authority after 
upon the 86. Psal. Epist. 18.  the Apostles. Augustin saith: that he will believe none how godly and learned so ever he be unless he confirm his sentence by the scriptures or by some reason not contrary to them. And in an other place/ hear this the Lord saith, hear not this Donatus saith, Rogatus saith, Vicentius saith, Hilarius, 
Epist. 48.  saith, Ambrose saith, Augustin saith, but hearken to this the Lord saith.  
And again having to do with an Arrian/ affirmeth: 
Against Maxim. ● the Arrian. 3. 14. chap.  that neither he ought to bring forth the council of Niece, nor the other the council of Arimin, thereby to btinge prejudice each to other: neither ought the Arrian to be holden by the authority of the one, nor himself by the authority of the other: but by the scriptures which are witnesses proper to neither, but common ro both, matter with matter, cause with cause, reason with reason ought to be debated. And in another place against Petiliane 
De unitate ecclesiae cap. 3.  the donatian heretic he saith: Let not these words be heatd between us, I Say: you Say: let us hear this, Thus saith the lord, and by and by speaking off the scriptures he saith there let us seek the church, there let us try the cause Here it is manifest that the argument of authority of man affirmatively is nothing worth/ which the answerer notwithstanding maketh so great accounts off: likewise that reason which is not directly against the truth is preferred to authority which the A. denieth. and if Augustin thowght that in a matter of controversy the authority off so many godly and learned fathers as were assembled at that Council of Niece interpeting the scriptures rightly/ ought not to be alleged not only to condemn and convince/ but not so much as to prejudice an heresy long ago condemned: if he would have the truth tried by the scripture only: let all men judge how evil a follower of Augustin the D. is/ which in the authority of one or two men layeth so great weight/ that he thinketh that kind off proof to be the best proof off his and overthrow off his adversaries cause. And though at any time 
Contr julian Pelagiann lib. prim. lib. de nature. & great.  it happened unto him (as it did against the Donatists▪ and others) to allege the authority of the ancient fathers which had been before him: yet that was not done before be had laid a sure foundation of his cause in the scriptures/ and that also being provoked by the adversaries of the truth/ who bore themselves high of some Council/ or off some man of name that had favoured their part. And therefore if the A. would salve this with the example of Augustin in other places: yet for that he never in any cause layeth any foundation/ either of any scripture or colour of scripture: and being provoked flieth still from it/ as from the rock and sands oh his cause: it is clear that if he had that authority which he pretendeth untruely on his side: yet the use of it in this sort/ were both by the rule off the word of god/ and example of the ancient fathers altogether unlawful. And so the estimation which you have off the learned may easily appear unto all men/ to be as they make for you/ or against you: so that when they make for you they are as sharp of sight as Eagles: afterward when they are against you they see no more than jays.  
You give me address unto the wisest/ godliest/ and best learned amongst the Ecclesiastical order/ to know of them whether they think whith you: but your address is very uncertain: for those are not always peradventure best learned to me that are to you/ and if you mean those which at there ease do not unwillingly behold you in this wrestle for the crown of ease and honour (whereof they may be peradventure some) I may yet have Good cause to doubt/ whether they be off that judgement with you/ or at lest whether they would oppugn this cause as you do. for albeit they be content to take some fruit of your labour: yet it followeth not always that they would do the like themselves. You know that there are some which will receive that which is taken by others/ that would not venture themselves to take it: and Jerome 
jer. 3. To praefat in job.  writeth some where: that faults even confessed please oftentimes.   

Unto the three next sections  
THat your counsel unto the reader off looking before he leap is Good: only I admonish that he look by the candle light off the word off God. For that off allteringe our judgement it cometh after to be answered pag. 45. Unto that which followeth in the 16. 17. 18. 19 20. 21. 22. 23. I will answer nothing/ saving that for the proof off that which I have set down and he denieth touching the advantage taken by the faults off the printer: I refer the reader to the corrections in the end of the admonition. And where he denieth that the admonition quoted any places for the phrase of speech/ and not the proof off matter: to go no further/ I refer him to the first page/ where the 7. and 11. of S. Matthew are noted for the phrase/ and can by no means be drawn whether he would draw them.   

To the 27. sect. pag. 24.  
WHere he accuseth me that I answer not to this sectione in the next line I answer to it: for confessing it to be a fallation/ and showing afterward how untruely it is objected/ what more could I answer?   

To the 28. pag. 25:  
HEre M. D. seeking busily to hide his nakedness/ findeth not so much as a fig leaf to cover his shame with all. Nam in seeking a hole to hide it in he hath met with a hill to show it further of. He accusethe me of dishonesty/ that I have falsified his words in saying that he affirmeth it To be a thing indifferent to come to the communion clothed or naked for that he hath not used this word (indifferent). you bind me very straight though you will let me use no other words than you/ that which you said in many words I uttered in one. I refuse not to be counted unhonest/ if I have differred in sense from you. For whether that be a thing indifferent or no/ which is neither commanded in the scripture nor by necessary collection may be gathered thereof: I leave it to the judgement of all those/ which have learned that the scripture is a perfect rule off all things public or private necessary to be done off a Christian man: which thing also after is more at large declared. And where the gloss saith/ that the proof out of S. Paul that it is no indifferent thing For men to come either clothed or naked is superfluous: I marvel that he seeth not that it is directly against that he setteth down which is/ that it can not be showed out of the scripture either by plain words or by necessary collection, that men and women ought not to come naked unto the communion. it was peradventure more than he would have had/ but his absurd assertion required it. After he saith he knoweth it is necessary to comeliness / that a man or woman come clothed: but he denieth it to be particularly expressed in the scriptures▪ as though this were all one with that which he set down before/ and that there were no difference between these sayings: it is not commanded in the scriptures, nor can by no necessary collection be gathered of them, with this it is not particularly expressed in the scriptures. And to help to cleanse M. D. Master Ridley a singular learned man and constant martyr of Christ must be defiled with this gross error. Who although being a man might well err: yet it is incredible that a man of his learning and godliness/ could fall in so plain a way as this. Therefore/ unless it be made to appear/ I can not believe that ever he wrote so and though he did/ I am sure he is well content that as stubble it should pass through the fire.  
Where you ask why I took that example and left the rest: I gave you the reason for that the other came to be spoken off more properly in another place/ and that was only found there: beside that they are far off another sort than this. Now let me ask you: why you placed that with the rest/ seeing you confess these in other places to be things indifferent/ and at the order of the church: and here deny that you propounded this as a thing indifferent. if you grant the other to be indifferent/ and deny this to be so/ you did evil in coupling them together which were not matches: if you say they are all off one sort/ and confess that the other be indifferent than I have truly reported your judgement/ in saying that you hold this also as a thing indifferent.  
The like cavil unto this/ is that he chargeth me as though I had falsified his saying/ for that I put in stead of his word Argument fallation. I would know of him whether when he findeth fault with the arguments of the Admonition, he mean to find fault with true Arguments or false. if (as needs must) he answer false arguments: I say that there is no difference between a false argument and a fallation, saving that the word fallation is more proper/ and the other word in this signification is used 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or (as I may term it) abused: for in deed a false argument argueth nothing: and therefore is no argument/ no more than a painted man is a man. And where he saith that I am not ignorant that there are many false arguments/ which be not amongst the fallations: and further asketh to what fallation this and that is referred: albeit I could show his ignorance in them/ especially in the two last/ yet because that were to draw the reader to more questions and those altogether impertinent unto this matter/ I will stop up this head/ and put you in remembrance/ that if all were granted you that you demand/ yet your fault remaineth still. For I noted your unskilfulness/ in that you setting down certain arguments which you referred to the fallation of Secundum qui●, afterwards make the arguments of authority negatively, and negatives by comparison, two several kind of arguments from the first/ which notwithstanding are not diverse/ but contained under the former place. And that we walk not altogether in the clouds from the understanding off the simpler/ it is all one as if a man should say/ there are three sorts of English men/ one sowthrens/ the other Bentishe/ the third Middlesex. if Master Crammer never used such Logic/ such a parsonage hath great injury to be compelled to communicate with this absurdity: for it nothing helpeth you that he used this manner of speech of Negatives by comparison, unless that you show that he maketh them a several kind from those of Secundum quid. And when M. D. is not afraid to offer these unto the taste off the learned men/ he asketh me whether I blush not trifle in this sort. The truth is: I am ashamed to have tarried so long in so small a matter/ and if you had charged me withen ignorance only/ and not with falsifying your words/ I would (I assure you) have let you gone withal: and I will promise' you from henceforth what occasion so ever you give this ways/ (except it be manifestly joined with defence of the cause) you shall do it without answer. Where he complainethe off want of answer in the next section/ he doth me wrong/ seeing I referred him to another place for answer. To the next section I have answered.   

To the next sect. pag. 28.  
IFF this sentence (he that is a good and a modest preacher will not disdain as well to be taught as teach) be not an idle vagabond/ and broken lose from all his follows: than it must needs be a reason off that wherein you said before/ that you knew no man so well learned, but it might become him to read and learn Master Nowellles catechism and the Argument is as I have gathered it. For you to prove that it becometh the authors of the admonition to learn that catechism/ add that the place of Timothy/ doth not forbid to learn. And again a Modest preacher will not disdain to be taught. So that this is your argument/ A modest preacher must be taught/ therefore he must learn that catechism/ and therefore must be enjoined to learn it. And if you say that you set it down to show/ that no man is so well learned but he may learn still/ or to show that the place of Saint Paul doth not forbid to learn: I ask to what purpose? Considering that the authors of the admonition/ do not deny that a Minister ought to learn: but that it is unmeet for a Minister to be enjoined to learn catechisms. And as for all the arguments which the D. gatherethe himself out of this place/ they are so many witnesses against him/ that he fowght with his own shadow. For where he still concludeth they may read catechisms/ he concludeth that which the admonition denieth not: but that which the admonition denieth to be meet/ (which is to drive a minister to learn catechisms) he never concludeth. It shallbe therefore at your own choice/ whether you will have that your argument that I have framed/ or else that you have not spoken to the matter.   

Unto the 32: sect: pag. 28:  
IN orators I grant it is a great point of art/ to hide art/ that it appear not: but when a man setteth himself to confute/ the opener and plainer way hath always been most commendable. So that if this were your order/ it had been good that you had set up some mark by a transition/ whereby we might have understanded it. I know not what happened unto others/ but I confess I saw no such order. I see this/ which also is true in your former answers/ that in going about to heal one wound/ you give yourself an other. for going about to put from you the absurdity of this argument/ you confess that you bestow great labour to prove that/ which was not in controversy between the admonition and you: the other shallbe seen in there places.  
To the next section answer shallbe made in the place whereunto he referreth us. For the next unto that: I answer that this is a vain shift/ the advantage whereof he can not take to excuse his folly. For this reason which he here allegeth/ he had cited out of Master Bucer/ and Master Martyr/ page 258/ and immediately after in the page. 239. he pretendeth that he will bring other reasons/ beside this to prove that the surplis doth edify: and therefore beginneth a fresh with furthermore, and then addeth secondly, whereas if it be true which he here allegeth/ in his pretence off going further/ he standeth still and removeth not an inch. For the next unto that/ I say as I said before/ and refer it to the judgement of the reader/ whether I have not only not corrupted your meaning/ but almost conceived mine argument in the same words which you use. And where you so boudlie (in ask) affirm that cap gown and tippet used in popery are good signs/ for that they are signs of good things/ namely off the ministers off the word: I showed how untrue that rule is in the 57 and 60. pages/ against which if you have any thing to say/ you shall there understand further.   

To the next pag. 30.  
MD. taketh it for a thing assured/ that the authors of the adminition in saying that those that first authorised the book of common prayer/ were studious of peace/ and building off the church/ meant that they were so/ in collecting and authorisinge that book: for why else saith he should they speak of them? I answer that they had good occasion to say so/ to meet with slanderous tongues/ which for the misliking off some things done by them/ be ready to charge them as though they condemned the men/ or misliked off all things they did. And although that be granted which he presumeth upon/ yet the fault of the argument remaineth the same it did. for though they were studious of peace and building the church in so doing: it might well be that they took not the best way to peace/ and propounding themselves a good end/ choose not the best means of coming thereunto. And for this purpose (if I be not deceived) in our Ecclesiastical story of king Edward's times/ it is set forth/ how upon. suit made by the Emperor/ that the lady Marie which then was/ might for herself have the exercise off the mass: M. Crammer/ and Master Ridley/ and I know not who more/ become suitors to the kings majesty/ that the request off the Emperor might take place. I dowbt not but those good men/ were studious of the peace and buldinge off the church in this request/ and propounded that for their end: and yet king Edward that resisted their request/ was neither puller down off the church/ nor disturber of the peace/ but pleased god/ and left a notable example to all posterity of Kings and Queen's/ that they should not for any respect of kindred/ league/ or ally/ suffer any such pollution in their lands.  
The same also might be fall unto them in gathering off the book/ for it may well be/ that there purpose was/ by that temper off popish ceremonies with the gospel/ partly the easilier to draw the papists to the gospel/ (whilst fearing that they would not frame themselves to it it should be some what framed unto them) partly to redeem peace thereby/ the breach whereof they feared might have ensued off such a perfect and through change/ as the sincerity of the gospel required. if this were there purpose they were studious of peace and building of the church/ but yet erred in the mean: so it appeareth/ that it being granted which the A. demandeth/ yet my gathering off his argument is justified.   

To the 37. sect. pag. 30.  
Why should you note here that Cyprians place was abused by the Papists? it is beside your purpose/ and contrary to the law to leave your match with whom your are collered/ and take you to a slander by. For so unhappily is it come to pass/ that the papists/ (whose disorders and corruption of the discipline of Christ were here oppugned) have found you their champion to fight for them/ whilst they look on. And to what end serveth this headless arrow/ not shot/ but picked out against the Papists? They are (god be praised) substantially convinced off the corruption of this place of Cyprian/ by diverse learned men: so that this bore affirmation/ that Cyprian speaketh not of the usurped authority of the Bishop of Rome, besides it is out of season/ doth rather move laughter/ and confirm the enemy in his obstinacy/ then give him remedy against his error. But what weighethe this word (for) in our language/ is it not a causal/ and rendereth a reason off that which goeth before? Which you have therefore by all likelihood left out/ that this poor shift might have some colour. the rest is answered before. Unto the next I answer/ that it shall appear when I come to that place/ whether there be such reasons or no.  
In the next section he chargeth me in great words with untruth/ and asketh me where I find in the ●3. page this argument/ that by that there was one offeverie congregation/ he proveth that there was one over a whole province. To whom I answer that in that he concludeth an Archebishopp over a province/ upon Ignatius places which speak off a Bishop in every church he maketh: the same argument which I have made.  
To the next page 32. being bore denials and false accusations/ I answer not   

Unto the next sect. pag. 33.  
Leaving his untrue accusations/ I answer/ that where he saith that the case of Luther and Zuinglius of Circumcision and preaching unto gentiles/ which I alleged are not like/ for that they be substantial points of religion/ and these be not: it is his old cuckoos song. For we offer to prove this also of the substance of Religion. And I brought the examples only to show/ that to be untrue which he goeth about to persuade/ that all those which contend where the gospel is preached/ are to be holden for disturbers. Thother difference which he placeth in that Luther and Zuinglius did that which they did in strininge about the Sacrament/ by consent off their several magistrates: although he doth not make that appear: yet I ask him what Zuinglius/ etc. should have done/ if the Magistrate would not have suffered him to answer: should he have suffered the truth to be destitute of his defence? Where he citeth out of Zuinglius that the gospel is a sword to divide the faithful, and therefore that this doctrine which hath made a division in the church can not be good: I answer that although he might well say it to the anabaptists/ and that it so cometh to pass for the most part: yet that can be no general rule/ considering that the preaching that circumcision was not necessary/ although it divided those of the church which believed it from those that did not believe it:: yet those which did not believe it/ did not therefore cease to be off the church/ and off the numbered of the faithful.  
The Sermon which our Saviour Christ had amongst his disciples/ and those that believed in him touching that his 
Io●●●●.  flesh was the true meat/ and his blood the true drink/ which who soever did not eat and drink could not have life in him/ did make such a cut amongst the Disciples/ that all (saving 
john 6. 66.  twelve) departed from our Saviour Christ. if they made a full departure and Apostasy/ it is evident that the gospel cureth even those which be in the church clean from it: if they did not utterly forsake the gospel/ but offended at that sermon were not as before daily followers of our saviour Christ: yet it is clear that that doctrine of the gospel/ did make apartition between the twelve/ and those other which went there ways/ in that they believed that sermon/ which the other did not/ they were taught/ and the other offended. Whereupon it followeth/ that either the doctrine which our Saviour Christ preached/ was not the truth: or else the truth may sometimes/ divide the faithful amongst themselves.  
I could cite diverse other examples both out of the Acts of the Apostles/ and out of S. john: but these shall suffice to show the vanity off M. D. reason. And if he will say that though he ere/ M. Zuinglius errethe with him: he is vecelie unworthy the name off a Divine/ that careth not how oft he falleth/ so he may fall with company. Howbeit I have showed how M. Zuinglius saying may be upholden/ and yet make nothing for the confirmation off that which he would prove.   

To the next. pa. 36.  
IT fareth with M. D. as with malefactors: which having left something behind them whereby they may be known/ for fear off that which followeth/ renounce it utterly to be theirs. But that the conclusion of all these articles is as I have set down/ that is to say/ that the authors of the admonition are either anabaptists/ or in the way to Anabaptism (albeit he here deny it:) I report me to the conscience of all those that shall read him. And let his words be considered/ which be that Anabaptiisme is almost plainly professed in the admonition, and so be judged whether I have truly gathered his meaning yea or no. I have spoken so plainly in that the Answerer maketh so strange/ and weroff he requireth more open speech/ that I can not speak plainlier. I use the words which are worn in all schools and writers which have occasion to speak off these matters: I gave that which I said light by examples. Notwithstanding he can not see/ how the ministery of England may be commonly and for the most part unlawful/ and not right/ and yet some found which either may have there calling according to the word of god/ diverse from that which is commonly used: or else (the lawful calling by the church ceasing) have it by an immediate calling from God. if M. D. will 
jer. 3. To praefat in job.  be so ignorant/ as not to know how these two may stand together: let him be ignorant: if he delight in his blindness/ what should he do with a guide.  
After he saith my distinction is not good of lawful and ordinary: for that whatsoever is lawful in a church established, the same is ordinary, and for proof hereof he addeth that common reason teacheth it: but what is that common reason/ it had been good you had set it down. This is a simple confutation which you use/ to prove that in an established church/ lawful and ordinary are all one. And if I should reply and say/ that the distinction is good/ and that common reason teacheth so: if I light off as favourable a reader as you/ my proof will be as good as yours▪ but this is but to abuse the time/ and to delude the world. And it is the more untolerable/ that you are not content to have said it once without proof/ unless it be also quoted in the margin/ as though we could not without some great damage/ want this high saying. And where you make common reason the judge hereof (although she be an evil scholemistris oftentimes in these cases) yet she teacheth here plainly against you. For if a man will consider it in natural things/ it is evident in the birth of children/ that some thing is lawful/ which is not ordinary. It is nor ordinary for a woman to bring forth three or four children at once/ and yet it is lawful. And if this common reason be considered also in political things: there it shall appear likewise/ that things are lawful in a well governed and established common wealth/ which are not ordina●rie As if order be taken that none shall climb the walls of the city/ and the citizens climinge the wall upon the sudden coming off the enemy/ drive him back: no man can deny but this act is lawful/ and yet it is clear/ that it is not ordinary/ being otherwise (but in such a case as this) punishable.  
But let these go/ and let us see how this oracle agreeth with the word of god. And first though by a church established/ you mean a church which hath one uniform order grounded out of the word of god: you take that for granted which is the controversy/ for we deny that the church of England is so established. But if you understand by a church established/ a church of god wherein (with other things well done) the corruptions which are in it/ be by common consent off those which rule the church/ agreed upon: it is manifest that in such a church/ there hath been a calling lawful/ which was not ordinary. For before the coming of our Saviour Christ/ it is confessed that there was amangest the jews (and in jerusalem especially) a church of god established/ the ordinary ministries of the priests and Levites used/ th● prescribed sacrifices offered/ the la read and taught: the corruptions of the church were not the several opinions of particular persons/ but the uniform decrees off those which had the government. And yet there the lord raised up Simeon/ and john baptist/ whose vocations being extraordinary/ were notwithstanding lawful. And that there be no hole for M. D. to hide his boldness off casting forth whatsoever taketh him first in the head: it is to be showed that in the most orderly established churches of god/ and most purely reformed according to the word of god/ there have been ministers lawful/ and yet not ordinary.  
In the wilderness the church under the conduit of Moses and Aaron/ was for the outward face exactly governed according to the rule that god had given thereof: and yet we read off the 72. upon whom the spirit of prophesy fell/ which was no ordinary calling/ as that which endured but for a time as the words of the text (howsoever they be otherwise translated) do declare/ which saith/ that they added not 
Num. 11. 25.  to prophesy any more. When was the church better established according to the rule off the word of god/ then in David's time? and yet then (besides himself) there were diverse extraordinary ministers. For there was the Prophet Nathan/ and Gad/ with other's not of the levitical order/ which only was the ordinary calling of the church. In the new 
Act. 15.  Testament the church of Antioch/ ceased not after it was established/ to have the extraordinary function of Prophets. And onless. M. D. will say/ that all these functions were unlawful: he must confess that in an established church/ ordinary and lawful are not all one. And albeit in these times where there is a church established according to the word of god/ the lord doth not use to raise up any such extraordinary ministery/ neither is it to be looked for: yet it is a thing which may come to pass/ and which hath nothing in the word of god to the contrary. In stead of that you say if any church in England do elect there minister otherwise then the laws of the church doth permit, it can not be excused off schism: you should have said/ otherwise then the word of god doth permit. For if it be showed that that order established be corrupt/ and the other which they followed in the calling off their minister according to the word of god: then they need not to be afraid of the slander of schism. And where you say such and such parishes must be looked unto, verily they need not therein be ashamed who look upon them. But If ear the look you mean is/ to put out their eye in taking away the Minister/ that they should be the less able to look unto your unfaith full dealing with the churches of God. You understand not you say what I mean, when I say that the choice of the Minister by the church is such, as the examples of the scripture do show to have been before the eldership and government of the church be established. I know in deed these things before have been unheard off by you/ whose ignorance the church must rue. And now when you are told it in so plain words/ as I nothing doubt but a child of nine years old doth understand it: you can not yet comprehend it. It was the practice off the pharisees against our Saviour Christ/ when they 
john 10. 24.  had nothing to answer/ to charge him that he spoke not plainly/ but propounded things dowbtfully that men could not tell where to have him. For they come unto him and say/ how long dost thou hold us in suspense? if thou be Christ tell us plainly: as though he had not told them plainly before. This Pharisaical practice the D. useth against me diverse times/ groping at noon days/ and complaining that I am not plain and open enough/ and going about to make men believe/ that I have some thing that I would not have men understand. And although he confess he understand it not/ yet he reprehendeth it/ and so it cometh to him which S. Jude chargethe the false teachers with in his time/ that he 
jud. 5. 10.  speaketh evil off that he knoweth not. He asketh here for examples/ and they stick still in his throat unswalowed and undigested/ which the admonition gave him: when he hath overcome those/ then let him ask for more examples. And whereas he ascribethe as a great absurdity to us/ that we make the order off choosing the minister before the eldership and government be established, somewhat diverse from that which is before, putting this flourish upon it: that we allow off all things out of order though against our own order, so it be against common order: I will not go about to confute that here/ or to show what good cause there is off this diversity (it being sufficiently declared in that book/ which together with the right form of government commanded out of the word of god/ notethe the disorders off our church) only I will ask M. D. whether the consecration (as it is called) of the Archbishops and bishops at the first entry of the Queen's majesty/ was the same altogether with that which hath been sithence. And though there were a difference between that and this: then in this great desire of his to strick he care not how/ nor after What sort/ his struck is fallen upon himself/ and upon those whom he undertaketh to defend.  
That the words of the admonition have not that sense which is here ascribed unto it/ I have showed in the proper place: neither will I touch it here/ although the A. set it twenty times before me. if he have any thing to say against that which I have said/ there it shall be considered. Although here the D. was taken even in the very act of false coyninge: yet he shameth not to deny it/ and with that bloudnes and forehead/ that he is ready also to accuse him that taketh him with the manner. He biddeth me peruse more diligently the words of M. Bullingar. I have perused them/ and set them down/ first in latin and then in English: and if I have not turned them truly/ show wherein I have faulted: and if they be truly turned/ then I demand again/ where these words be found in any of those leaves of Bullinger which you quote/ That they could not teach truly because they had great livings? You say they be word for word there, show but the same sense or meaning/ that is to say that this off M. Bullingers that the anabaptists said they could not teach the truth which had any living, is all one with that which you have set down/ that they can not teach the truth which have great livings. And if you can not show it: your falsification remaineth increased with the open facing of an untruth. In deed if you can put out all men eyes/ and take away from us our senses/ and all light of grammar/ and off the knowledge of signification and propriety of words: it will not be impossible for you with such confident speeches as you use/ to make us believe that all is turned upside down/ and that the earth hangeth over our heads/ and the heavens are underneath our feet. but you deceive yourself/ if you think that yowe can bear down the truth so/ or that you can hide falsehood by adding another unto it/ whereby it is made bigger and more easy to be seen then before.  
The place added out of M. Zuinglius Ecclesiastes/ maketh nothing to the saluinge off your falsehood: and how far our men (as it pleaseth you to call them) are far from all such sayings/ I have before declared. if you show as you say that I do give to little unto the magistrate/ I will confess my fault and confess my felse debtor unto you for it. As for the cleanelines of my terms which I use/ they are not so foul as the things whereunto they are applied/ and the prophet Malachy and S. Paul used them in honester matters than 
Mala. 2. 3. Phil. 3. 8.  these are: so that if the phrase off the Apostles and Prophets be mannerly enough/ there is less godliness in you/ which in me hove thus accused them off incivility. Unto the next section pag. 40. I answer not.  
To the 44. sect. pag. 41. I grant the corruptions of the church of England to be such/ that man in absteininge from the pollutions thereof/ ought not so sever himself from those open assemblies/ wherein the eternal word of the Lord God is preached and the Sacraments administered/ although not in that purity which they ought to be. But I say again/ that the name off conventicles is to light and contemptuous for those meetings. For here in is to be considered for what cause they departed. Which was not for the mis likinge off any thing which Christ ordained/ but through the mislike off that which Antichrist had brought in: not as the anabaptists did/ and the D. surmiseth they did/ for that they judged themselves pure and others unpure/ but that they feared that their presence where such corruptions were/ should be allowance or confirmation of them: not so much forth hatred of the estate/ off the church of England/ as forth love that they had to a better: nor so much for the hatred of the Ministers which were unjustly set over them/ as for the love off those which were unlawfully by the Bishops taken from them. Thedorete declareth how the Catholics which maintained the faith of the Nicenc council/ 
Lib. 3. c. 4  through affection to their teacher's/ divided and severed themselves into several companies: will the. A. faith that all their meetings were conventicles? if he do/ he speaketh far otherwise of them then Theodorete: and yet that division continued 86. years.  
And if this be off no authority whith you/ yet I would gladly understand/ what you will answer to the sentence off M. Caluin/ which you have alleged yourself pag. ●1. where he saith: This honour is meet to be given to the word of god and to the Sacraments, that wheresoever we see the word of God truly preached, and the Sacraments without superstition Ministered: there we may conclude without all controversy the church to be. Iff this meeting with some disorder be the church of god/ how is it a conventicle? Besides that it aught to have been considered off you/ whether they continued in that division/ and whether being taught and showed their error/ they did obstinately persever: according to which circumstance that off Augustine ought to be expounded/ for not every one which departethe for any cause whatsoever from that which is the church of God/ by and by is to be accounted no member of the church. For 
1. Cor. 11. ca 18. 19  seeing that heresy is more heinous than a schism/ and yet heresy doth not cut a man from the church/ unless he remain obstinate: much less can a schism cause forthwith him that faulteth that ways/ to be no member of the church. S. Paul found greater schisms in the church of Corinthe then those were: and yet he rebuked them with an other spirit than you use: neiter doth he cut them of from the church/ but in the spirit of mildness restoreth them. And if you had learned that you aught not to break a bruised reed nor quench the smoking flax: you would have dealt otherwise then you do.  
If so be that the church of England were reformed (as 
Mat. 1.  you would bear us in hand) and the Bishops by casting out of their ministers out of their churches/ had not given the occasion of such departure: the departure had been more untolerable/ And therefore as much as you add to the amplisyinge of their fault: so much you increase off the sin of the bishops/ which without just cause/ gave occasion of that division There is great difference between the preaching off the anabaptists and heretics/ and the preaching off those brethren. for the anabaptists and other heretics preachings be with the upholding off their false opinions/ and doctrine contrary to Scripture werwith you are not able to charge them in the lest point: but that in all doctrine which you preach truly they preach the same with you. And where you say Disiuncrely that oftentimes the word of god is preached amongst the anabaptists and heretics, or the Sacraments administered: in those congregations which you make Anabaptistes/ or like unto them/ both the word was preached and the Sacraments Ministered together. And therefore if you did purposely put that (Or) rather then and: then whilst you written/ your conscience offered you a manifest difference between the anabaptists and those brethren. And if you did not put it purposely/ but mean that in the conventicles of the anabaptists and heretics both the word of god is preached/ and his sacraments administered speaking so precisely: I would gladly know off you what difference you make between the conventicles of the anabaptists and heretics/ and the church of God/ seeing that the preaching off the word and ministering off the sacraments are the infallible notes thereof. Ind this aught to have given you occasion of a softer word/ if you had not been driven by the tempest of your affection/ rather then led by any quiet and stayed judgement of the truth. Because it is your old wont/ and either you can not or will not prove or improve your sayings by the word of god: I will not stand to note how that upon augustin's word only/ without any proof out of the word of god/ you have here cut a numbered from the church. if you bind so hard/ and lock so fast: you should have brought the bond and Key of the word of god/ that the conscience (which only looketh unto the word of god) seeing itself in that danger/ might be careful to seek how to be delivered. The gloss and the Text vary here. For the one (in saying that it standeth me good name upon, to bring them out which are free will men and hold consubstanstantiation seemeth to deny that there be any such: The other by saying that thenre are not so many, and that they are not justified: do the indirectly confess it. And if it were not confessed/ the thing is so notorious/ that albeit I name them not/ yet I need not to fear the suspicion of untruth/ in that which hath so many witnesses. And where you say there are not so many of them as off those whom you most falsely and slander ouslie call puritanes: As I rejoice therein in the behalf of the church of England/ so it standeth not by any diligence/ good foresight/ or discipline of yours/ that the church swarmeth not with them/ seeing they are suffered to have the highest places in the church/ where (with the levaine of their false doctrine) they may sour not one town/ as it were three pecks: but whole shires/ as it were a whole heap/ or fat/ or other of the largest measures off the lords meal in our country. And so although they be not by words maintained: yet they are in deed not only maintained/ but also by such sufferance in those places rewarded. Unto the nine next sections I answer nothing. 
Ephes. 4. 13. Coloss. 3. 10.   
In the last section 45. pag. unto the places off Saint Paul (whereby I prove that it is no breach off true Christianity to altar in judgement) he answereth/ that the Apostles meaning is not that men should be daily altering their judgement, and broaching new opinions, which is no answer to the question. For although we may not daily broche new opinions: yet we ought to correct our old errors/ as often as we are made understand them. So that unless he will say/ that those which believe the gospel are without the danger of error/ in things pertaining to the government of the church/ etc. or that when they know their errors they should not amend them (both which are absurd): it must needs follow/ that he goeth about to abuse the reader/ which upon that we have changed judgement/ would draw us into the suspicion of lightness and unconstancy. And seeing the church of England changed the book of common prayer twice or thrice/ after it had received the knowledge of the gospel/ and always corrected some thing of that which it held for good before: either the answerer must condemn those alterations as childish and unconstant/ or else he must confess that a whole church lightened with the knowledge of the gospel/ and established in a certain order of government/ may with out fear off suspicion of that linghtenes which he doth surmise/ displace the former order and place an other. Unto the 4. next I answer nothing/ saving that where the gloss chargeth me with contrariety: I desire the reader to consider what contraririe or what colour off contrarity there is/ between these sayings/ the church can not long continue without common wealths, and the church may be established without a Christian magistrate. if I had said that the church might be established witheowt a magistrate: then there had been some likelihood of the contrariety he surmyseth. But he should understand/ as long as their be magistrates/ although they be not only unchristian/ but Tyrannical and persecuting: yet the blessing which the lord giveth unto his own ordinance/ so overcometh all their malice: that there ceaseth not come even from that disordered government/ some thing to the preservation of the church. The answer which his gloss asketh for/ touching churlish answering (although it deserved none) is page 177. and he could not be ignorant/ but I referred him in the answer/ to the seventh article.  
Unto the first part of the last Section page 47. I answer nothing. For answer unto the later part touching the place of Timothe (whereby he would prove that men may offer themselves to the ministery) I will refer the reder to the treatise off the discipline off ●he church lately set forth/ where this is answered at large. Unto the four next sections I answer nothing/ saving that where in the second sec● pa. 5● he saith that master Caluin in his book against the anabaptists affirmethe/ that the church as touching the external policy can not be perfect: I do assure myself that (as in other places) so here/ he hath untruly said off Master Caluin. And it cannot b● unknown but in Moses and the Apostles times/ there was a perfect patrum of the outward governernment of the churches/ both given off the lord and received off the churches. neither can there be any part of the outward government of the church/ assigned by the answerer/ which draweth any such impossibility with it as he imagineth. And if he say/ that their were faults committed against those perfect patrons: that is not to the purpose. For the faults off particular persons do no more overthrow the perfection of the government which was received: then the faults off the officers in our church against the laws thereof/ are to be imputed unto the laws themselves whereby that government standeth. And as for the examples of the churches of Corinthe and Galatia which he allegeth: they rather make against him. For that disorder which the Apostle chargeth them with/ being a sliding back/ and falling away from that estate wherein they were first of all set by the apostle: argueth that there was a time/ when the contrary of those disorders had place in their churches.  
In the next section he allegeth divers examples to prove/ that enemy's one with another conspire against the truth, which no man do which/ and where I showed that the church's friends/ may do some things which some of the church's enemies do/ against him (which in that the admonitors do certain things with the papist and Anabaptistes'/ would give to understand/ that they are conspired with them): he answereth that the admonitors conspire with the enemies of the church in things which are against the church, which is a manifest begging off that which is in controversy. touching that which I said he hath taught/ that there is no commandment in the scripture to put heretics to death: although he deny that ever he did so: yet beside that he maintaineth the same in the second treatise (where he leaveth it in the liberty of the magistrate whether he will do it or no/ and rejecteth all the laws of God provided in that behalf as jewis he: there be more witnesses off this/ then his bore denial is able to bear down. to whose knowledge I will so report me in this behalf/ that if they confirm not the same: I refuse not to bear the blame off that report. where he saith there is no cause that he should be better thought of among the papists, which teach and practise the contrary: although the Papists abuse this doctrine to the horrible murder off the church/ yet the doctrine is the doctrine of god/ and not the Papists: and you by staying the course of it/ nourish them to the day of slaughter/ and shedding off the blood of the saints of god/ which is their feast/ and which they so greatly delight in/ and long after. In althat which followeth unto the first tractate/ which beginneeths page 62. there is nothing worth the answer. And as for that whole tractate/ because it pertaineth to the question of lordeshipp/ and dominion of the Archebishopps over the bishops/ and off the bishops over the rest of the Ministers: it shall be referred to the beginning off the 8. Tractate/ where the answerer shall receive his reply   

What authority the church hath in making off orders.  

Chapter 1. pag. 77.  
THe plaster wherwithe the answerer would heal his unskilfulness in the expounding off tolerating in the church. by these words placing in the church, will not clean. For to let pass the meanig off the admonition (which he should have showed if he maintain his answer by it/ and not as he doth (contrary to all law of disputation) bid me prove that their meaning was not so as he supposeth) I say to let that pass: it appeareth by bis plain words/ that this exposition was not framed in regard off the meaning off the admonition/ but for that he knew not what difference there was between placing in the church, and tolerating in the church. For himself confesseth that this is the principal ground of their book/ that those things only should be placed in the church / which the lord himself in his word comaundethe. and ascribing this judgement unto them he afterward expoundeth/ that to be asmuch as if they should have said: that nothing should be tolerated, etc. if this be their principal ground that nothing be placed, etc., (as the A. confesseth:) and placing in the church is not the same that tolerating in the church (as he doth also confess:) it must follow that the principal ground of the admonition/ was not (as he saith) that nothing should be tolerated in the church not commanded by the word. And his words do discharge the admonition of any such assertion. For in that he saith/ that their meaning was (so far as he could gather) that nothing should be placed, etc. it is manifest that in saying now that they ment that nothing should be tolerated, etc. he chargeth them farther/ then he was then able to gather off their book.  
afterward he chargethe me/ with an unadvised and a popish assertion/ for that I say: that many things are commanded in the scripture which are not expressed in it. He needed not to have travailed far/ to have seen how far I am from popery in in this point: if he would have but considered/ the words which follow in the same division: that god hath set before us in his word, a perfect patron of his church. But I was at least overseen in this kind of speech. Alas though he would understand his grammar/ and acknowledge that which simple scholars of the grammar school do well know/ that their is difference between expressed and contained, between expressed and included, between expressed and implied, between expressed and gathered: He would never have troubled the reader with such follies. And as for that which I set down/ I did it upon Good grounds. For who is there which knoweth not/ that these things/ that there is one essence and three persons in the godhead/ that there is in our Saviour Christ one parson and two natures: are not expressed/ but only contained in the word of God?  
And if proof must be had off things (which is to great shame for one that cariethe the title of a divine to be ignorant off) let the answerer know/ that learned divines speak after this sort/ Their words be these. of the father, of the 
Acta Ratilboncusia.  Son, and holy ghost, there is one nature one essence and three persons: In Christ our lord there be two natures and one person, and many other things which the catholic church doth receive, rather laid out by the interpretation 
Quàm ipsarum scripturarum verbis expressa ipsis tamen scripturae verbis implicida.  of the Scriptures/ then expressed in the words of the Scripture. Here the answerer may learn/ that certain off the cheiff pillars of our Religion/ by the judgement of this council are not expressed in the word of God/ and yet notwithstanding both contained in the word of God/ and commanded to be believed.  
And where he saith that he counntethe that expressed in the scripture when it is either in manifest words contained, or thereof gathe read by necessary collection: I answer/ that I suppose/ that there was never writer/ holy nor profane/ that ever spoke so: and that it biddeth defiance both to divinity/ and humanity/ being forged (as it is to be feared) contrary to his own knowledge/ only that he might give some colour unto that absurdytie/ which he would so gladly fasten on me. I say that it is against his own knowledge: forasmuch as in his former book/ and even in the next division/ (which is in the 78/ page of this his later book) he confesseth this difference off being expressed in the word/ and gathered of it/ which is the same in effect which I have said. For he saith that nothing ought to be tolerated in the church ' etc. unless it be expressly contained in the word of god or may manifestly thereof be gathered. Here he plainly opposeth as member off one division/ expressly contained, and manifestly gathered: now in this later book clean contrarily/ he maketh gathered to be a part of expressed. And in an other place off his former book/ (as it appeareth in the 24. page off his book) he saith: and none of these circumstances are commanded in the scripture, or by necessary collection thereof may be gathered. Where he supposeth some thing necessary to salvation / which is not commanded/ namely which may be necessarily gathered of the scripture. And if those words commanded in the scriptures (which are general) will not contain all that which is necessary (as his division teacheth:) how much less will these words/ expressed in the scriptures, compass them? and if commanded and forbidden be all one with expressed (as he here affirmeth): then did he absurdly to make gathered off the scriptures/ to be an opposite member unto commanded. That which I said off the argument of authority of a man/ to be neither good affirmatively/ nor negatively/ farther than to induce thereader into somelikinge/ or misliking/ and not to have force to compel: is apparent unto all which have any sparcke of judgement. That which is borough out of Aristotle/ is to no purpose: and it maketh also against the A. Forasmuch as where Aristotle saith/ that credit is to be given to him that is cunning: he speaketh off things/ which have a likelihood/ and may be disputed off on both sides: and not of things/ which are to be received without gainsaying. And I marvel that the A. will not see/ that amongst men/ the cunningest in any profession/ have in diverse things been off those which followed them justly found fauls with. And if he will both stick to Aristotle/ and interpret him as he doth/ that a man aught to believe every one, in that as to and profession where in he is cunning: then every learned Divine in his profession/ is to be believed whatsoever he saith. Which being absurd/ and seeing it hath been before showed/ that an argument of the authority of man affirmatively is not good: let us hold that for somuch as man/ cannot come (through his infirmity) unto the perfection of any thing/ (which reason being assigned of me/ is untouched of the A.) and forasmuch as the gifts of god/ are given in measure/ and not in perfection: that an argument off ●he authority of man/ can not enforceus/ and that it is proper unto the Aposties'/ and prophets/ whom the Lord had chosen to be his notaries/ and whose hands he helds continually/ to be without the hazard of error.  
To the places which I alleged out of the word of god/ to prove that an argument drawn of the authority of the scripture negatively/ is good: he answereth/ that the examples which I bring/ be of things of great importance/ and forbidden in other places of the Scripture. I grant they are so/ and that maketh much against him: for that the Lord having this advantage against the Israelites/ off charging them that they had done contrary unto his commandment/ chose rather to say after this sort/ that they had done that which he had not commanded, thereby to teach his to hang upon his mouth. And the answerer ought to have considered/ that the reason is general which the prophets use: which otherwise should be no reason at all. And it may be showed/ that the same manner of argument/ hath been used in things which are not off the substance of salvation or damnation/ and whereof there was no commandment to the contrary. In josuah/ the children of Israel are charged by the Prophet/ that they asked not counsel off the mouth of the lord/ when they entered into covenant with 
9 josuah 14.  the Gabeonites: and yet that covenant was not made contrary unto any comaundement of god. For howsoever it seemeth to some/ that upon the words of Moses/ they ought to have been put to death/ being of those nations which dwelt in the inheritance of the people of god: yet though it be considered what the causes were/ why they might not enter in to league with them (which was/ lest they dwelling amongst them should draw them to a false worship of god:) it will not be 
Deut. 20.  hard to understand/ but that with condition off yielding themselves/ both to the subjection of the jews/ and to their institution in the Religion of god (as these did) they might be received.  
There was in deed difference between these nations/ which dwelled in the land of the inheritance of the children of Israel/ and which dwelled round about them. For where the jews might make league with the nations round about them/ without any their submission unto Religion: they could not do so with the Canaanites/ etc. And where in other nations after peace refused/ the children of Israel having taken a city/ ought to keep a live women and children in these either resisting them/ or not submitting themselves unto the service of god/ it was not lawful to spare either women or children. But that it was simply unlawful for them/ to make league with them with any condition/ I think it can not be showed. for them joshua and the princes should have done evil/ to have kept their oath with them/ after they had understanded their fraud/ considering that all oaths made against the comaundement of god/ are to be broken. And if it be said/ that joshua and the princes did evil in keeping their oath: the approbation of that fact is apparent in an other place/ where the 
1. Sam. 21.  vengeance for the lord/ fell upon all Israel by famyn/ and upon the house of Saul particularly/ by executing those of his family: because the gabeonites/ had been (contrary to the tenure of the oath made with them) put to death. And unless this 
2. joshua  be admitted/ we shall be compelled to condemn the spies/ which entered into league with Rachab the Harlot: and Solomon/ 
1. Reg. 9:  which received the Amorytes/ that voluntaryly yielded themselves unto his obedience/ and withal unto the obedience of the lord/ as it may appear in the books of Esra/ and Nehemias': where their posterity (which are there called the sons of the servants of Solomon) having of old time/ grown into one body of the church of god with the children of Israel: join themselves with them in the restoring of the temple. 
2. Sam. 7. 7.  whereupon the A. may understand/ that the Scripture reasonethe negatively against the Israelites/ in a thing whereof there was no commandment to the contrary.  
Moreover we read/ that when David had taken this counsel/ to build a temple unto the lord: albeit the lord had 
1. Chron. 17. 6.  revealed before in his word/ that there should be such a standing place/ where the ark of the covenant/ and the service of god should have a certain abiding: and albeit there was no word of god/ which forbade David to build the temple: yet the lord (with commendation of his good affection/ and zeal he had to the advancement of his glory) concludeth against David his resolution to build the temple with this reason: namely/ that he had given no commandment of this/ who should build it.  
Where he would ground this answer/ upon the words of Zuinglius: it is manifest that Zuinglius reproveth the anabaptists/ not for reasoning negatively of the authority of the scripture/ but that they reasoned negatively off an act/ or an example. And there is great difference between them that say/ it is no contained/ or it can not be concluded off any place in the scripture: therefore it is unlawful/ and between the anabaptists/ which reason that therefore the baptism of children is unlawful because it is not found in the Scriptures/ that the Apostles did babtize any children. Whereas though they had reasoned thus/ that the baptism off young children was unlawful/ forasmuch as it was not commanded in the scriptures: although the ground of their reason had been false: yet their conclusion had been fast and sure. And therefore if the answerer would have dealt truly/ he should not have fathered this answer of Zuinglius/ which hath no such thing) but of the Papists whose proper defence this is against those/ which manifie the sufficiency of the word of God/ as that which giveth men address/ unto all things which are to be done.  
Master Harding reprochethe the Bishop of Salusbery 
In the 29. division of the first Article. / with this kind of reasoning/ which the answerer obiectethe against us so often/ unto whom the Bishop answereth. The Atgument Master Hearding meaneth and not very plainly uttereth is the argument of authority negatively: which is taken to be good, when soever proof is taken off gods word and is used not only by us, but also by many of the catholic fathers. And there allegeth how Saint Paul in the 3. Gal. disputeth negatively of the authority of the scripture/ for that the apostle upon the words of Moses in thy seed and not seeds, concludeth that our saviour Christ was understanded. likewise he show the how Origine/ reasoneth after the same sort. And a little after/ showeth the reason why the argument of authority off of the scripture negatively/ is good/ namely/ for that the word of God is perfect. In another place unto Master Harding 
In the defence of the Apology 5. part ca 15. division 1.  casting him in the teeth/ with the negative Arguments: he allegeth places out of Ireneus/ Chrysostom/ Loo/ which reasoned negatively of the authority of the scripture The places which he allegeth/ be very full/ and plain in generality/ without any such restraincte as the A. imagineth/ as they are there to be seen.  
Whereas he saith/ that the reason that God could give a perfect patron of the church/ therefore he hath so done/ doth no more follow then in there all presence of the Sacrament: he doth but trifle with his reader. For I reason not off the bore power of God/ but have joined his will with his power. For my words be/ that the Lord determining to set before our eyes a perfect form off his church, is both able to do it, and hath done it. Where it is evident unto all men/ that I ground my reason not only off the ability of the lord/ but upon his determination: not only off that which he could do/ but off that he hath done.   

Division 2. pag. 79.  
Unto that wherein he was touched/ for his unskilfulness in dividing/ in that both matters of government/ and matters of faith (which he divideth/ and by dividing opposethe) meet so friendly together in the government of the Pope: he answerthe not. And yet having nothing to answer/ he findeth himself the talk/ of a whole sheet of paper. For first of all/ how ridiculous is it that he saith/ he did not put a case but an example? Then/ whether pertains it/ that he setteth down/ what the Papists say off the pope, what the pope doth himself? That also which he affirmeth in so good earnest/ that no government ought to be received/ direcly against the word of God: that he repeatethe/ and repeateth again/ his negative argument of the pope's supremacy: are they not all stray spreaches/ frayed out of their wits/ carrying not the weight of a feather/ to the proof of any thing in controversy: having no knot/ either with the cause/ or one of them with another?  
Likewise the distinctions of Ceremonies/ and government/ off substantial and accidental/ of external and spiritual/ are altogether unprofitable/ brought to avoid his apparent ignorance in dividing. Likewise his dallying in his questions what government I mean (which is apparent in the discourse of all our books of both sides) also his groping at none days/ by questions what it ment by matters necessary to salvation, which is expressed of me in the very next diusion/ and again in the third chap. 2 division. afterward/ when he setteth himself to prove/ that there is no one find off government certain and unvariable in the church: let it be observed/ how loosely and childishelie he doth it. For beside the first reason/ which is a begging of that which is in question and the later reason/ drawn of the authority of master Gwalier whereof he can have no advantage/ unless (with master Gualther) he will affirm that excommunication is not necessary/ nor yet convenient under a Christien magistrate: all the rest of his authorities/ drawn out of M. calvin/ the helvetian confession/ Bullinger/ are quite beside the cause. For they are to prove/ that there may be a church without excommunication. As though the question were/ what things the church (of those which be prescribed by the word of God) may want/ and yet be the church of god: and not/ what things it ought to have by the prescript of the word off God. Or as though the question were/ how sick the church might be/ and yet live: how meimed/ and yet not slain: and not what are the means/ which the lord hath appointed/ for a whole and wholesome constitution of the body of the church. And if excommunication or the one form of government were not necessary for the church/ because the church which wanteth them/ may be the church: by the same reason a man may say/ that the holy sacrament of the supper of the lord/ is not necessary for the church: seeing that in that company/ where the word of god is only preached and received/ there is the church of god. And hereof also the practice is to be seen in some places/ where the magistrate (according to the churches / the preaching off the word of god) for certain occasisions/ will not accord/ the ministering of the supper. Last of all/ M. Beza showing the true marks of the church/ addeth to the two former/ the discipline framed according to the word/ con. 5. 7. so that whatsoever necessity cometh unto the word and Sacraments in that they are notes/ the same cometh also to the discipline by M. Bezaes' judgement. Where he quarreleth with me/ as though I had concluded off particulars only: beside that he ought to know/ that man may conclude a particular/ either affirmatively or negatively in any figure/ not only of particulars but of singulars: he must understand/ that a particular instance overthroweth him/ which opposeth matter of ceremonies/ and government/ unto matters of faith/ and salvation/ generally and without exception. His accusation against me (for calling the holy Sacraments ceremonies) considering that kind of speech/ is received amongst the divines/ and I had no further occasion to speak of them/ then to show they were ceremonies: is utterly unworthy any answer.  
To the third Division pag. 81. The Answerer broileth things together of the infinite mercy of god/ and of repentance in a moment/ of his unsearchable judgements/ having neither head nor foot in his talk. And although he would seem to say somewhat against me: yet in deed he confirmeth that which I have set down. For when he saith/ that the doctrine of free will being damnable of itself/ doth not prejudice the mercy off God. if he mean that the merry of God embraceth him that being infected with that error/ doth by no especial repentance call it back (as that which is unknown unto him:) than he fully agreeth with me. if he mean that upon special repentance/ and change off mind in that point/ he obtain mercy: he speaketh truly/ but to no purpose off that matter which we have in hand.  
Therefore to bring some light unto those things/ which the A. with his disorder/ darkeneth: it is to be understanded/ that first of all every transgression of the law/ be it never 
6. Rom.  so little of itself and in the own nature/ is damnable. secondly it is to be observed/ that no sin unto those which are through faith grafted into the body of Christ/ can bring 
8. Rom.  damnation: as also without faith (I speak off those which have understanding) there is none which bringeth not certain death/ the mercy of god (although never so infinite) being shut up against all unbelievers. Which I therefore add/ because the D. speaketh so confusedly off the infiniteness of God's mercy. In the third place/ it must be seen/ what faults utterly destroy the faith which is in Christ. For it is clear/ that those that do not pull up the roots/ and raze the foundations of faith: can by no means shut the kingdom of heaven/ against those which are infected with them: althowg he they do never come to the knowledge of them. Wherein I think that no man off any judgement/ will deny that errors not in the hearers only/ but also in the teachers/ may be such as do not destroy the foundation. And this thing may be 
1. Cor. 3. 12. Col. 3. 19 2, Pet. 2. 1.  easily showed/ by diverse places of scripture/ where this distinction of errors (which destroy the foundations/ and which do not: which hold the head/ and which do not: which are deadly/ and which are not:) may be easily gathered.  
It remaineth only to see/ whether the erorr of fire will be amongst them which do not raze the foundations (as I have alleged) or no. And when as one which maintaineth free will/ may hold the free remission of sins in the grace of god/ and likewise hold/ that that grace is showed unto him for Christ's sake (these being the grounds of our salvation) it must needs follow/ that free will doth not raze the foundations. For there is no necessity/ that he who saith that the spirit of God/ by the new birth hath given him power to die to sin/ and to live unto righteousness: should also affirm/ that it is given him off merit. In the opinion that S. Peter had of his own strength and ability to die for Christ/ 
Math. 26. ●3. 35.  entangled (as it may seem) with ignorance of this point of Religion/ touching the bondage of man's will: he ceased not therefore/ to have a true and justifying faith in the son of God/ whereunto our saviour Christ himself had given testimony. And if their were not sufficient hold in this example of Peter/ against the A: yet in the greek doctors/ and some also of the latin/ (as in Jerome especially/ which did not by one act or two as Peter/ but by arguments and open sayings/ declare there liking of free will) this is manifest. for dare the. A. say/ of all them that they believed not the free remission of sins For jesus Christ's sake/ or held not the foundation of religion/ all that time that they taught in the church of god/ and held that opinion? And if he grant that they had faith: then I conclude that even then/ when they held free will/ they held the foundations. which is not so in the example off believing/ that the mass is a sacrifice for the quick and the dead/ which he unskilfully comparethe with this error off free will: considering that that over throweth/ and turneth uppside down the material cause off our salvation/ which is the sacrifice off the son of god/ that he once for ever in his own person/ offered for the sins of the world. And therefore that error can not be/ in any in whom there is faith.  
I brought three reasons off comparison/ to prove that the word of god is a rule to square out/ whatsoever thing is to be done in the ordering off the church: and the A. in calling them bore words/ hath made a quick dispatch of them/ saving that his marginal note/ doth keep the wont of untrue surmisinge. which upon that I compare the government/ with chains and bracelets/ saith: that I accounted it more precious/ then the doctrine. As if the apparel which clothethe the nakedness/ were not always more necessary/ and sometime also more precious/ then those jewels. And if I had not this defence: yet if I had fallen upon an adversary which had not been disposed to trifle/ the law of comparisons/ (which exacteth not likelihood in all things/ but only in that where in the comparison is made) would have cleared this margin.  
To the Division 4. pag. 84. The Admonition said/ that nothing aught to be established in the church, which is not commanded by the word of God: the A offended hewith/ condemned this saying: the reply showeth/ how the saying of the A. is maintenable/ namely for that though there be not express words for every thing/ which may be established: yet there are general commandments/ whereby all things which can fall into any Ecclesiastical consultation/ are to be directed. The A. (to maintain his sudden/ and unadvised condemnation) saith: that in those things which are varied by time/ and other circumstances/ and whereof there is no precise determination in the word of god: it is enough that they be not against the word of God. So that this is the difference between the Adm. and him: they will have those things not only not to be against the word/ but to be grounded upon the word: and he sayeth/ it is enough they be not against the word. Wherein if there were no diversity/ the Ans. is in fault: which in his greediness off finding fault/ condemneth that in the Adm. which he is constrained to allow off. But in deed they are not all one. For albeit it can not be/ but that which is not agreeable unto the word of God/ is against the word of God: and off the otherside/ that which is not against the word of God/ is agreeable unto it: yet he that so saith/ that certain things must be done not against the word/ that he will not also accord/ that they should be done according to the word: giveth thereby to understand/ that there is some star or light of reason/ or learning or other help/ whereby some act may be well done/ and acceptably unto God/ in which the word of God was shut out/ and not called to counsel: as that which either could not/ or need not/ give any direction in that behalf. Now in this later boocke/ and in this division he saith: that nothing aught to be done in the church, but according to the true meaning of the word. And afterward saith/ that he agreeth unto this sentence of mine: that in making orders, and ceremonies of the church, it is not lawful to do what men list: but they are bound to follow the general rules off the scripture/ that are given to be a squire/ whereby those are to be squared out. And thus in the end the A. is constrained/ to yield him self to that/ which he hath before found fault with. for if nothing may be done in making orders off the church/ but according to the general rules off the scripture/ and those general rules be commandments: it followeth/ that nothing may be done in makings orders for the church/ but according to the commandment off God. Which is that which the Adm. did set down.  
And whereas he would make the reader believe/ that we have given back/ in that we confess certain orders may be established in the church/ which are not expressed in the word of God: I have showed/ how the Adm. is very untruly charged with that sentence: there being neither the same/ nor the value of those words to be found in it. This therefore being agreed on of both sides: we might have here shut up these controversies/ saving that the A. holding this doctrine in words/ doth notwithstanding in deed continued the siege against it: in that all those places/ which I have alleged for proof of it/ he doth by shameful and open corruptions/ essay to overthrow.  
And to the first place/ which is that the wisdom of god in his word/ doth teach men every good way/ and therefore 
2. Prove.  the way which aught to be taken in the establishment of orders/ and ceremonies in the church: he asketh me in great scorn/ what that maketh to the purpose? in deed to prove that which he untruly/ and contrary to my plain words/ in his answer to all my arguments surmiseth to be my purpose (that is/ that no law aught to be made in the church/ which is not expressed in the word) I say to prove this/ I grant it is not sufficient: but to prove that all things ought to be done in the church/ not only not against the comaundement/ but also according to the commandment of God (which was that which I propounded/ and he denied) it is more sufficient/ then he is able to answer. His answer also/ which supposeth this sentence directed unto princes and magistrates (only belike in that he saith my son) is uttered without all judgement: considering that Solomon/ by that title speaketh unto all the children of god/ of what calling soever they be/ as it is manifest by the writer to the hebrews. 
12. 5.   
To the next argument/ grounded upon the authority of Saint Paul/ (which is/ nothing can be done to the glory 
1. Cor 10. 1. Tim. 4.  of God/ without ebedience: all things done without the testimony of the word of God/ are without obedience: therefore nothing done without the testimony of the word of God/ can be done to the Glory of God) to this argument/ which he calleth undigested: he answereth by repetition of my words/ and that Saint Paul● meaning is/ that nothing be done against the word. Which how absurd an answer it is/ when both that is the question/ and I have expressly urged the Testimony of the word of God to be required/ let all men judge.  
The next argument/ which he saith is evil framed/ is apparent. Wheresoever faith is wanting/ there is sin: in every action not commanded/ faith is wanting: therefore in every action not commanded/ there is sin. To this be answereth: that the words of Saint Paul (not to be 
14. Rom.  off faith) signify that we aught to do nothing/ against our conscience. Which both is very absurd/ and overthroweth the sense off the Apostle. For having showed/ that he which doth any thing doubtingly/ is condemned: he assigneth immediately/ this to be the reason/ because he doth it not of faith. So that the Apostle calleth that done not of faith/ which is done doubtingly: But he is said to do against conscience/ which having his knowledge/ and persuasion settled/ goeth against it.  
And where he saith/ that the words going before (which are Blessed is he that condemneth not himself, in the thing which he allowethe) do prove that sense of his: it is spoken without all consideration of the place For how cometh it to pass/ that he rather referrethe these words of Saint Paul not to be off faith, to this sentence/ which is farther removed: then to that off doing with doubt/ which goeth immediately before/ yea wherewith it is coupled in the same verse/ with a conjunction causal? And although the reason sometime be referred/ unto that which goeth farther off: yet that is both rarely/ and then/ when by no means it can agreed with that/ which goeth immediately before. Which can not be here/ considering especially/ that it could not be unknown/ but that he which doth against his conscience/ sinneth/ whereby the Apostle should need make any proof of it. but of him which doth a thing staggering and wavering/ there might be some doubt/ whether he sinned. and therefore the Apostle having said/ that he is condemned in so doing: addeth this reason/ for that he doth it not of faith, which being sin/ is therefore damnable.  
Where he saith/ that if a man should do nothing whereof he hath not assurance by the word of God, that he doth well: that thereby should be overthrown Christian liberty in indifferent things: the fault is/ in his want off understanding. For even those things that are indifferent/ and may be done/ have their freedom grounded off the word of God: so that unless the word of the lord/ either in general or especial words/ had determined off the free use of them: there could have been no lawful use of them at all. And when he seeth/ that S. Paul speaketh here off civil/ private/ and indifferent actions/ as of eating this or that kind of meat (than the which their can be nothing more indifferent:) he might easily have seen/ that the sentence off the Apostle/ reacheth even to his case/ off taking up a straw. For if this rule be off indifferent things/ and not of all: I would gladly know of him/ what indifferent things it is given off/ and of what not. And the same also I require of him in the other general rule/ off doing all things to the glory of god. For if that reach unto all indifferent things it must needs comprise also this action of his. Which though it do/ then as no man can glorify God/ but by obedience/ and here is no obedience/ but where there is a word: it must follow/ that their is a word.  
And seemeth it so strange a thing unto him/ that a man should not take up a straw/ but for some purpose/ and for some good purpose? or will he not give the lord leave/ to require off a Christian man/ endued with the spirit of God/ as much/ as the heathen require off one/ which is only endued with reason/ that he should do nothing/ whereof he hath not some end/ and that in all his doings whether public/ or private/ at home/ or abroad/ whether with himself/ or with an other/ he ought to have regard/ whether that which he doth/ be done in duty or no? And if the taking up of a straw/ be done to good end/ either off helping him self/ or others/ regard of profit/ or pleasure/ or what else: it hath testimony of the word off God. And if it have not an end/ and a Good end: will not the A. give the lord leave to condemn that in his infinite wisdom/ which men by the light off a little wisdom/ do account foolish? or will he be so injurious to the justice of god/ that he may not judge that to be sin/ which they say is done against duty? What also? that some even off those heathen men/ have taught/ that nothing ought to be done/ whereof thou dowbtest whether 
Cic. 1. off.  it be right or wrong. Whereby it appeareth/ that even those which had no knowledge of the word of God: did see much of the equity of this/ which the Apostle requireth of a Christian man: and that the chiefest difference is/ that where they sent men for the difference off good and evil/ to the light of reason/ in such things: the Apostle sendeth them/ to the school of Christ in his word/ which only is able thorough faith/ to give them assurance/ and resolution in their doings.  
And although to maintain his former unadvisedness he had rather say/ that men should do nothing but which they believe 
Caluin upon the cpistle, and Insti. l. 3. ca 15. s. 5.  not to displease god, then with the godly learned to say/ that they aught to do nothing/ which they are not assuredly persuaded of/ that it pleaseth God: yet even this/ which he sayeth off believing that it doth not displease God, I would know of him/ Where he can fetch the ground off/ but in the word off God. For though he do believe/ that it doth not displease God/ and belief be not but in respect of the word of god: it must follow/ that he hath some word of God/ which telleth him/ that that doth not displease the Lord.  
And where he accusethe this doctrine/ of bringing-men to dispere: he doth it wrong. For when doubting is the way to dispere/ against which this doctrine offrethe the remmedie it must needs be/ that it bringeth comfort/ and joy/ to the conscience off man.  
The reason which I assigned/ why it is necessary to have the word of God/ go before us in all our actions (namely for that we can not otherwise be assured/ that they please God): he doth not once touch. His second signification of these words/ not to be of faith, that is not to be an article of faith: if it had any grace in it/ yet it is merely idle in this place/ and help the no more/ to the understanding of the place of Saint Paul now in hand/ then smoke doth the eyes. And where in the end he saith/ that these places do prove as much for all civil actions/ as for ecclesiastical: and that I can no more prove by these/ that a certain form of discipline is appointed in the Scripture/ then that every civil action is precisely commanded to be done without any change: I grant it: neither did I allege them therefore/ but was driven into this disputation/ only by occasion before alleged in the beginning off this division/ and manifestly expressed in the next.   

7. Division pag. 86.  
WHere as I alleged/ that in making ceremonies and orders off the church/ this ought to be observed/ which 
1. Cor. 10.  saint Paul requireth/ that they offend none/ but especially that they offend not the church of God: the first exception of the answerer is/ that this rule prescribeth the duty unto private men, and not generally unto the church. As though the rule were not general/ or this thing were prescribed unto them/ in respect of that they were private/ and not in respect off being Christians/ whether private/ or public: in which case that which is commanded to one ●s commanded to ahor as if the Lord were so careful in private offences/ and careless in public. And if offence aught to be taken heed off in things done without many witnesses/ without all countenance of authority/ and once only: how much more ought it to be taken heed off/ in the orders off the church/ which have so many lookers on/ so great continuance/ and such force of authority to strike it deeper in?  
His second exception is/ that by this means the orders off the church, should be subject to one or two men's like, or misliking. which answer proceedeth off two foul an oversight/ and want off understanding off the word offence, For Saint Paul by offence/ doth not mean displeasure/ or discontement: but that whereby/ occasion is given to any/ of sin and transgression of the law of God/ which may as well be with allowance/ as disalowance/ when all are pleased with that which is done/ as when they are displeased. And therefore in that signification which Saint Paul and our saviour Christ before him take this word offence/ the church ought to 
Mat. 5. 29.  provide/ that there be no offence given to one alone.  
His third exception/ that I added this word especially to the text, is a mere cavil. For although I used that word/ more then is in the text: yet I both kept the meaning/ and laid y● more open unto the simple reader. And where he saith/ that the apostle would have men more careful of offending those which are not yet come to the church, than those which be off it: it is altogether untrue/ and not only against the meaning off the Apostle/ but against the general rule of love: wherein these degrees are assigned/ that we (leving all men) should especially love those/ which are members of the same body with us. Whereupon it followeth/ that the fruits of love (whereof this is one of the principal/ that we ●iue no occasion of offence) ought rather to be performed toward them off the church/ then towards strangers. And y● being certain which S. Paul saith/ that we must do Good unto all 
Gal. 6.  but especially to those which are off the how should of faith: it must needs follow off the contrary/ that we ought not to do hurt unto any/ but especially unto those/ which are off the howshoulde of faith. And this degree doth our Saviour Christ himself note/ when he thundering against offences/ addeth this as an increase/ and an higher step in sin: if be it done against one of those which believe in him. 
18. Mat. 6  And where he saith/ that strangers may be so withdrawn, whereas there can be no such fear off those which are already members of the church: he speaketh both contrary to all experience/ and directly contrary to the apostle/ which disputing in this case 
1. Cor. 8. 11. Rom. 14. 15. 20.  of offence/ saith that the weak brother perisheth through these offences.  
last of all (if he require authority) Oecumenius/ a man much liked of the answerer/ thinketh that he had an especial care/ to those that be already members of the church: and Bucer hath a long treatise/ wherein he proveth/ that if either the Papists/ or those that are members of the church must be offended: that it is more agreeable/ to provide against the offence of the church/ then off the papists. 
Bucer upon the 18. of S. Math.   
The second rule he alloweth/ but admittethe no competent judges of it/ but such as made the orders: as the papists/ which (allowing off the Scriptures) take themselves only able/ to judge off the sense of them. And if there were but some few as he saith/ where as there are many thowsansandes/ and those all private men/ where there be which have charge: yet I would know of the A. whether the spirit of God/ is tied so either to multitude/ or to authority: that both a few/ and private/ may not espy faults in the orders/ which have been devised by many and public persons.  
To the third rule/ that all should be done unto edifying: he saith that it can not be applied to all things generally used in 
1. Cor. 14.  the church, but to prayers, tongues, etc. specified in that chapter, as if it were not the ordinary of the apostle/ to prove the particulars/ by the general/ and so to conclude/ that the exercises off praying/ singing etc. should be done to edifying/ because all things must so be done. And where he would seem/ to ●ye the Signification/ off edifying/ only unto instruction in the church: it is manifest that the apostle/ carrying it also unto things indifferent/ will have this to be the rule/ off our private actions/ much more off such public actions/ as I have before declared. And the words which saint Paul useth/ do not require/ that ceremonies 
Rom. 14. 19  and orders of the church should edify (as he surmisethe): it is sufficient to come under this rule off the Apostle/ that they tend to edifying: and he can not be ignorant/ that it is one thing to build/ and another thing to tend to building.  
For the 4 rule/ which is that they be done to the glory of God/ he will acknowledge it to be no rule/ to direct ceremonies 
Rom. 14.  by/ because it is a rule to guide all actions whatsoever. which is a very strange argument/ that because it is a rule to guide all actions: therefore it is no rule to direct the churches. And if this be a sufficient cause of refusing it as impertinent to this purpose: then that rule (which he off these four doth only allwe/ as of that only which he himself brought) must also be judged impertinent to this purpose/ and so thrust out of the doors with her follows. For there is nothing whatsoever a man doth/ whether privately or publicly in matters either civil/ or Ecclesiastical: but he ought to keep this rule/ that it be done in order and in comeliness.  
Where upon my words/ And yet so left to the order off the church, that it do nothing against the rules aforesaid, he noteth that I am contrary unto myself, and contrary unto the the Adm. Why doth he note not the contrariety? Are these contrary? It is not enough, that the orders off the church be not against the word, unless they be ground upon the word: and this/ that they are so left to the order off the church, that it/ do nothing contrary to the rules aforesaid? Declaring my mind at large before/ I have in this last sentence/ put less than was in the other: but there is nothing contrary. I never dissented from him in that he saith/ the church may in making orders, do nothing against the word: but in this/ that he by rejecting the Admonition/ denieth that they aught to be cut out according to the word and commandment of God: I both did/ and do still dissent from him.  
The article of the Duche church/ as it is set down of M. Beza/ we do fully agreed with: which is/ that we ought 
24. Epist.  to esteem things indifferent, by the circumstance of time, place, and person, weighed by the skoles off the word off God. There are divers things beside in this division/ that are nothing to the purpose/ and unworthy any answer. And amongst others/ what an untolerable mockery of the reader is it/ that where it hath been showed/ that the words of the Admonition/ not commanded in the scripture, ought to be taken for that/ which is either particularly/ or in the general commanded: he notwithstanding saith/ that peradventure we may shifted it, in saying that they meant, either generally, or particularly. Wherein in stead that he should have proved/ that they meant not so: he maketh a peradventure off that/ which hath been before in so many words disputed.   

Division 6. pag. 89.  
IN that you wound up the lords day/ with other things which you account merely indifferent neither set any mark in the forehead of it/ whereby we might understand that you had any other estimation of it then of the rest: all men do see/ that I had Good cause to charge you as I did. And even now your answer which you make/ is expressly against that which you have written before. For you affirm that the lords day is in the number of those which not to observe/ or once to call in question/ is mere madness. But in your former book/ after recital of the lords day/ and other things which you account indifferent: you close up which this sentence/ that there is none so simple, which understandeth not, that the church hath authority in those matters. If it be mere madness for the church not to observe the lords day: how hath the church authority in that case? And if it may not once move question of it: how can it take order in it? your manner of speech/ whereby you would go between these two sentences/ and help to set at one such manifest contrarieties/ be absurd: for you say/ that the continuance of the lords day so long, doth prove it necessary to be observed: and yet add/ that it may be altered upon great and especial considerations. whereas if it be necessary to be observed/ it may not be altered: And if it may be altered/ then it is not necessary. Whereby appeareth how truly I gathered off your words/ which you can not avoid without such senseless speeches.  
Against that which I said off Ecclesiastical discipline/ instituted in the 18/ off S. Matthew for contemners and neglecters of the word/ and common prayers: it is said/ and said with great words/ that that place is to be understanded off secret and particular faults, and not off open, and known. Whereas it is more than manifest/ that if the scripture giveth authority to reprehend private faults: it doth much more authorize to rebuke public faults. And if those faults/ which are done against one man: much more those which are done against the whole church. And if those which are done against the profit off men: much more against those/ which are done against the glory off God. And if upon refusal of Admonition/ in those particular and secret cases/ he will have the church proceed to excommunication: how much more will he/ that that proceeding be observed in these open faults? And it is to childish/ thus continually to stumble at this: that the words of the scripture should have no farther reach/ then to that special case whereof express mention is made in the text: and to leave no place to arguments off like/ of more to the less/ off les to the more/ of contraries etc. and therbie to cut off all meditation of the word of God/ to destroy a great part of the use off teaching in the church. Albeit in following his own interpretation/ the contemners or neglecters of the word and prayers/ may well be subject to this rule/ (for it may come to pass that one may contemn the word/ etc. And yet in that manner as it shall be known wne only unto one what opinion he norishethe of them) yet because that is not always/ let us see further/ what unskilfulness it is which the A. doth so greatly accuse in this allegation.  
Saint Paul grounding himself upon this place off our 
1. Cor. 5.  Saviour/ doubted not to draw forth the authority he had to excommunicate/ against the incestuous man/ which was notoriously known to have offended the whole congregation/ and Hymineus/ which had corrupted the purity of the doctrine. 
2 Tim. 2. 18. 1. Tim. 2. 20.  And if the A. say truly/ that that doctrine of our Saviour Christ touching excommunication/ may be carried no farther then to that case off private and secret injuries: then Saint Paul drew the sword/ and taught to draw it/ where it ought not. And although there be no mention made off the admonitions: yet they must be off necessity presupposed/ forasmiche as it was not lawful/ to have proceeded to that extremity off cutting off by excommunication: if the offenders had left any place to admonitions/ and would have suffered themselves to have been cured by gentler medicines. What also that Saint Paul upon the public admonition which he 
2. Cor. 13.  gave unto certain offenders/ menaceth them that if they admit not his admonitions/ and reprehensions/ he will not spare them: doth he not in those words give them the threat off excommunication? And if he do▪ then it is clear/ that those admonitions being public/ were off public/ and known faults/ whereby followeth that this rule off admonishing and reprehending/ are forerunners unto excommunication/ even in public faults. And as he here fighteth against a manifest truth: so he hath himself for adversary: which affirmeth 
Pag. 667. / that against an heretic/ both these two admonititions which our saviour Christ speaketh of/ and the excommunication afterward/ ought to be practised, whiles he will say/ that an heretic which is known to one only/ ought so to be handled and that he which is notoriously known/ ought to be free from that censure. The place of M Caluin/ is altogeter from the purpose, for I do not say that private admonitions aught to be applied unto public offences/ the apostle of them giveth order that such offenders should be rebuked openly. 
1. Tim. 5.  Only I said/ that for contempt/ and neglect off the words (I might have said for every fault that tendeth either to the hurt of the neighbour/ or to the hindrance of the glory of God) there be prescribed in the word of God/ admonition's/ and reprehensions/ and if those will not serve/ excommunications: but whether the admonitions and reprehensions should be private or public (that thing hanging upon the quality and kind of the fault) I affirmed nothing.  
Now let us see/ what revel he maketh with the civil Discipline/ appointed by the law of God: Where before he can 
8. sect pa. 5. of his book.  give one answer/ he must ask three questions: the first is answered before in the beginning/ the last is handled afterward in the 6. Ch. and 5. division. And as for that part of the second question which with other his sainges following surmise that I would have the negltcte of the word punished by death: it is directly against my express words/ which (having showed the punishments/ that should be executed upon contemners) add that there are other punishments for those/ which neglect the word etc. And as to that part of his question/ which is whether contemners of the word ought to be put to death: it is as his other questions be/ of things not only affirmed/ and set down/ but disputed off both parts. For this is that which we plainly affirm/ and bring arguments to prove. And when he that despiseth the word of God/ despiseth God himself: the equity of this must needs appear/ unto all those in whom there is but a corn of the zeal and love of the glory of God/ or rather in whom there is not some pleasure/ to see the glory of God trodden under feet. But he saith/ that the place of Moses off putting Idolaters unto death, maketh nothing to prove this. The reason 
22. Exo.  whereof he assignethe to be: because contemners/ are not Idolaters. This is his ordinary fault/ that he can not understand/ that if an Idolater ought to die: much more a contemner of the word. For contempt (although it be not in an action/ which doth utterly overturn the service of God/ as Idolatry: but in one which staineth/ or cracketh it only/ as is the breach of the Sabbothe) is yet showed to be so displeasant unto the lord/ and so detestable: that that which off it self/ was not deadly/ only by this circumstance of contempt/ was punished with present death/ which may appear in him that gathered sticks on the Sabothe day. The breach of the sabothe day/ was not simply punishable by 
Num. 15. 30. 31. & 32.  death/ as Idolatry was/ much les so small a breach/ by the gathering off a few sticks: yet because it was done (as the scripture saith) in a high hand/ that is to say proudly and contemptuously: the lord commanded/ that he should be put to death/ and setteth that down for a generalle law. How much more than/ shall he which despisethe the word of God/ (which is the rule off the whole body of the service of God/ and off that true rest From our own works and from sin/ whereof that bodily rest/ was a figure) be punished with death? And though because the law doth not say in thus many words/ that a contemner shall die, it be not lawful to conclude/ that he ought to be put to death: what will the answerer say/ unto the writer unto the hebrews which 
10. Heb. 28.  saith/ that he that despisethe the law of Moses under two or three witnesses/ was put to death without mercy? For by those words it appeareth/ not only that a contemner of the law of Moses/ ought by the law to die (which is that which I set down:) but also that the writer upon th●● and such like places as I have here alleged/ gathered that which is no where in the law/ found in the same words wherein he uttereth that sentence.  
Touching the place of deuteronomy, which he saith is only understanded off false witness: it is apparent/ that although it follow 
19 Deut.  immediately the law off putting a false witness to death: yet it is a general sentence/ and hath regard unto all the crimes which are capital. for though false witnesses be put to death/ and Idolaters or contemners remain: how is the land purged off the evils which draw the wrath of God upon it? or how is a terror stricken into the rest whereby they may be kept from the infection of that sin? And if no punishment / but death/ be able to give a sound full enough to strick a sufficient terror of the sin off false witness in such a case: how much more is it needful/ that there be as brim/ and as audible a punishment against Idolaters/ and contemners of the word/ to the engendering of that fear in others/ whereby the rest may be kept/ in the fear and true worship off the lord.  
The place off the Chronicles/ is not answered: for it is more general/ then the A. taketh it: and is an exposition of 
Chron. 2. 15.  the law. For where the law saith/ that he that serveth strange Gods shall die: this place saith/ that he shall die which seeketh not the lord, where in are comprehended not only Idolaters/ but Atheists/ and mockers/ and contemners of God: which is that which I had to prove. As for that he asketh off the perpetuity off these laws/ it is afterward spoken off.  
In the end he findeth fault/ that I (saying there are other punishments for such as neglect the word of God/ according to the fault) do neither tell what they are/ nor where they be to be found. I thowght that the mouth of his understanding had not been so narrow/ but it could easily comprehend/ that if contempt be by the word of God to be punished by death: that the neglect off it/ ought not to escape the civil punishment/ either in body/ or Gods/ etc. Why I did not reckon them up/ I assigned sufficient cause: in that the varying/ according to the quantity of the fault/ more or less: could not be set down. And if he will see in general/ what punishment the law of God alloweth of in such cases: he may read in Esra. Where (beside the punishment of death/ against the transgressors of the law) there 
● Esra 26  be also appointed banishment/ loss of Good/ or imprisonment/ as the quality of the fault required. And if he say/ that that was done by the authority not off the law of God/ but of a heathen prince: the answer is easy/ that it is very like/ that the commission given to Esra/ and authorized by the king/ was drawn by Esra: which was a cunning scribe in the law of God. At the left it is manifest/ that he both accepted that/ and amongst other things gave God 
ver. 27. 28  thanks for it: which he would never have done/ whiles ●t/ had been a Good interpetation of the law in that behalf/ considering that even the civil and politic laws/ Whereby: the jews were then (and in jury especially) governed▪ aught to be no other/ then those which the lord had prescribed in the law. And thus let it be judged/ what Good cause I had to ask/ what was become off the A. judgement: when he set down, that there is no Discipline appointed ●n the word of God, for those which shall contemn the word of god, and common prayers.   

Division 7. pag. 91.  
THe answerer said/ that there was not one word in the scripture off pulpites or off sitting at the communion: in a word I showed/ that there was. And where he saith the pulpit was placed in open street: That was/ because off their dwelling in tents/ 
2. Chro. 6  the feast whereof they celebrated. For otherwise it appeareth/ that such a high place in the temple/ out off the which the voice of him which spoke might be heard/ was ordinary. The reason off calling the doctrine of Moses/ the chair of Moses/ by a metonumie of the subject For the adiuncte: I will leave to the reader to judge of. for my judgement of them/ I said/ that they are not lightly to be changed: and he dispurethe against me/ as if I had said: that it were not lawful to change these upon any occasion. And beside this disputing against his own fancy/ and not against my words: he hath violently broken into the question/ off reading and interpreting the word of God/ without any the lest occasion given thereof: and hath also shamefully corrupted/ the place of Nehemias'/ as shall be seen in the proper place.   

8. Division pag. 92.  
Here he accusethe me of falsifying his words/ which have charged him with saying/ that it is an indifferent thing to preach the word of God in churches or houses privately or publicly: wherein he still uttereth his forehead/ harder than any steel. For these being his own words/ that the scripture speaketh not a word of preaching or baptizing, openly or privately, at home or in the church: doth he not say the same that I lay unto him. What is indifferent/ if that be not/ which the scripture saith not a word of/ hath not prescribed/ hath not determined/ hath not appointed? all which phrases he useth/ as those which signify the same thing. And when he addeth in the end/ that there is none so simple, that understandeth, not that the church hath authority to take order in these things: doth he not affirm the same? for the church hath authority only in indifferent things to take order. So that it is more manifest than the day/ that which I have charged him with ones/ he hath said twice/ although not in the same/ yet in as full words. And where he asketh/ whether it be all one to say/ the scripture hath not determined whether baptism should be ministered openly or privately, at home or in the church, and to say/ the church may make baptism private or public: verily they are in mine and I think in all other indifferent judgement/ all one: and if they were not/ yet as I have showed/ you have said both the one/ and the other.  
And where you say/ that I thereby give the reader to understand, that you affirm it is in power off the church, to appoint that there should be no public baptism: although I give no more to understand that/ then that you affirm/ that it is in her power to appoint that there should be no private baptism: yet all men see/ that this is at the lest the weight of your words: that although the church should abuse her power in appointing always private baptism/ yet that must be obeyed. For as when you say/ that the scripture hath not determined, whether the communion should be celebrated sitting, standing, or kneeling, baptism in fontes, basins, rivers, etc. Your meaning is to affirm/ that if the church will have the communion always received kneeling/ or baptism always ministered in basone: that so it ought to be/ and never either standing or sitting or in fontes: so in saying that the scripture hath not determined, whether the preaching off the word should be public, or private, etc. and that the church hath the ordering of this thing, you affirm/ that if the church should always ordain/ that preaching and baptizing should be private: that so it aught to be. if you had said/ that it had been in the church's power/ according to the former rules prescribed/ to have ordered/ whether preaching and administering the Sacraments should be in the town or in the field/ in a church (as they call it) or in some one/ man's house or other: I would have moved no question against you. but when you say/ that it is in the power off the church/ to ordain whether it should be public/ or private/ I can not abide you for even in the time of persecution/ when it is preached in the house of a private man: I have showed/ that the church assembling there/ the meeting is public/ whereunto you answer not a word.  
Against the place I alleged out of Solomon/ he excepteth 
Prou. 8.  that it is strangely applied, and far fetched. Solomon in the chapter before/ had showed how the harlot/ doth lie in wait for men secrethe/ and in the night time/ and so (pressed with conscience of the evil/ which she goeth about) shunneth the light/ and seeketh secret corners. In the beginning off this chapter/ he comparethe the wisdom of God in his word/ unto a noble woman/ whom he opposethe unto the Harlot: and showeth How she off the contrary part/ doth not lie in wait/ or seek corners/ or night/ to hide herself in/ or whisper in the ears of men/ but exalteth her voice and speaketh in the most open places/ and corners of streets 
6. Mat. 5.  where the greatest concourse of people is. whereupon it may appear/ that if the A. either will/ or understanding were at home/ and not far from him: this place had been near enough the purpose. For if the word must be taught in such sort/ as it may best be conveyed unto the knowledge of most men/ and lest be charged with the seeking off corners / or the cover off the night: and it is manifest/ that that is better done/ when it is preached publicly/ then when it is preached privately: it must follow/ that by that saying of Solomon/ it is prescribed unto the church/ that the preaching ought to be public. And if there be not only examples off christ/ and of his Apostles/ but also a plain commandment (as I have showed) to preach the word openly: than it followeth/ that if the church have power to order/ whether the word should be preached publicly/ or privately: it hath power to order/ contrary to the commandment of our saviour Christ.  
And where he saith that the word of god may be taught prtuately, and that a man may exhort privately: that is nothing to the purpose. For we speak of the order which ought to be keeped in the exercises that concern the body of the church/ and not of the private exhortations/ teachings/ and admonition's/ that either the minister ought to use towards the several persons of his flock/ or one private man towards another/ or the father off a household in his family/ etc. And this is so far from helping of him/ that it maketh altogether against him. For as it is not in the church's power/ to forbid these private teachings/ admonition's/ exhortations/ or to ordain that these teachings/ etc. be public/ because the lord hath commanded them to be private: so it is not in her power/ to take away the public preaching of the word: considering that the lord also hath commanded it. And therefore it is untrue/ which he set down: that the scripture hath not determined, whether the word should be taught, privately, or publicly. For by private men/ it hath determined it should always be done privately: by public persons also/ it showeth how/ and in what case/ it should be spoken privately: and how/ and in what case/ publicly: contrary whereunto the church can not determine/ and if she determine a 100 times/ she is not to be obeyed.  
And whereas upon that/ that neither the place/ nor the number of Persons/ be off the substance of the words and Sacraments/ he would conclude/ that it is in the power off the church/ to make the preaching/ and administering off the Sacraments/ public or private: he may aswell say (which he said in his former book) that it is in the church's power to take order/ whether men and women/ shall come clothed/ or naked to received the Sacraments: considering that to come either clothed/ or naked/ is not off the substance of the Sacraments. Where he ought to understand/ that there are diverse things annexed/ and hanging by/ which being commanded by the word of god: are no more in the church's liberty to altar/ then it is in her power to change the day into night. Howbeit as I have showed/ that the place otherwise private/ being by the order of the church appointed for the assembly of the whole church/ is for that time of the assembly public: so it may be well said/ that the number which meet in that place which is so appointed by the church/ to hear the word of God/ (how small so ever it be) can not hinder the publykenes of that assembly. The places quoted in the margente/ to prove private celebrating off the Sacraments: are handled in another place.  
That which is alleged/ out of an article of the Such church/ that things otherwise indifferent, do after lawful commandment (after a sort) change their nature: we willingly subscribe unto howbeit/ with any thing which is here in controversy/ it hath no knot at all/ but is a wandering sentence/ which hath no fellow. For it is not debated here/ what force off authority the things have/ which the church ordaineth: but the question is altogether/ what are the things which fall into the church's order.  
The next division/ wherein he requireth answer unto the place off the Corinth's/ off doing all things decently/ and orderly: is answered in that I have showed/ that the church being bound to this commandment in making her Ceremonies/ is thereby tied/ not only to place nothing in the church against the commandment of God/ but is bound even according to the commandment/ to frame her orders in indifferent things. Wherein the answerer (although he oppugneth the grounds which I used for the proof of it) doth (I suppose) agreed with me/ and therefore there was no cause/ he should have required any answer.    

Caput 2. Division 1. pag. 95.  
IF he would have proved/ that which I deny: he should have showed/ that these authorities affirmed/ that the church in making laws of things/ whereof the scripture hath not precisely determined/ need not to have respect to the general commandments of the scripture before received. but that he is not able to do with any approved sentence. And albeit/ he hath subscribed to this sentence before: yet in the end off this division/ he beginneth to s●lyde into his former error/ saying/ that in matters not prescribed in the scripture, he can not tell whether to resort, to know the use and antiquity of them, but unto councils, stories, and doctors. As thowge the scripture were not the loode star unto the church/ in her decrees touching such things: and as though the first churches whhich had not such stories etc. had not sufficient address in the light off the word of God/ to make constitutions by. I grant the church by stories etc. understandeth of their antiquity: but the knowledge of their antiquity maketh little or nothing to know/ how profitable/ or convenient for the church they be: which being that only/ which is looked into in their establishing/ is drawn from the scriptures/ and not from antiquity. Howbeit because he pretendith agreement in this/ that there be certain things left unto the order of the church with this condition/ that they be done according to the general commandments of the Scripture: we will hold him by his former words/ and will not suffer him to break from us/ unless he do not only privily nibble and bite about/ but in manifest words eat up/ his former saying. Notwithstanding in the great plenty the A. hath off places/ for the proof of this which we deny not: let it be observed/ what partly unproper/ partly ungodly choice/ he hath made.  
The first sort of Testimonies out of the ancient writers/ and councils/ are off off those which are in controversy/ as whether bishops may have suffringanes/ whether there ought to be metropolitanes/ etc. whereof although he bring no testimony out of his antors/ that they are in the church's power/ to order: yet he setteth them down/ as though there were never question moved of them/ and as if he had gained them by strong hand of reason.  
The second sort are off those things which being determined by the word of God/ off or on/ are out of the church's compass to take order in: As is that which he reciteth out of justine/ off the deacons carrying the breed of the holy supper of the lord, to those which were not present at the action of the supper: and that which he allegeth out of the council of Neocesarea/ that no man should be minister before 30. year of his age, Likewise that which he bringeth out of the Amyran council/ that a minister can not s●ll the church's rights especially in that sense the council meaneth/ which is for his own private profit. The first of these is contrary to the institution/ and the last being sacrilege are simply forbidden in the word of god. The Scripture also determining that a man off those gifts which be required off the Minister off the word/ may/ and (if need require) ought to be received unto the ministry/ and showing further/ that those gifts fall into younger years than 3●. it must needs follow/ that the church determining flatly/ that none shall be received to the ministry before those years/ shuttethe the door of the ministery unto those/ to whom the word of God setteth it open. And also/ that this Council is altogether out of place alleged: considering that it determined not off this/ as of a thing whereof the Scripture had not given sentence/ but as off a thing unlawful by the Scripture/ and for that purpose it alledgethe the example of our Saviour christ/ which preached not before he was 30. year old. These things dangerously set down off the An. as indifferent/ which are not: I thought it necessary to give the simple reader warning/ that the Answ. measure wherewith he meeteth indifferent things/ is unsealed.  
There is a third sort out of Tertull. de corona militis ●d prax. & Basil. de sancto Spiritu, whereof beside that divers of them were never convenient/ some of them unlawful/ they are all such as the authors do not permit to the order of the church/ but under a false clock of tradition/ put the church's neck under a servile yoke of them. And whereas he would feign save these places out of the fire/ by saying/ that although some grew in time to superstition, and that one of his authors gave to much unto unwritten traditions: he doth but burn his fingers/ the places he can not save. For it behoveth him to show/ that certain things/ not determined in the word of God/ be in the church's power: and these places (if they prove any thing) prove that the church/ is bound off necessity to certain things/ whereof there is no commandment in the word of God: for the which cause they are alleged off the papists/ from whom it is not unlike but they were borrowed. 
Hosius de tradit.   
But yet it appeareth, that there were things in the church, not expressed in the word: I grant: and more than that/ things contrary: but by what right it doth not appear. And in deed if the answerer had light upon some wayward adversary/ that would have debated this question with him: these places would have given him great advantage/ considering that both the ceremonies/ be for a great part nought/ and the opinion of the necessity of them a great deal worse. And Jerome's words also/ in tying the later churches/ unto the customs of the ancient which are not against faith/ (albeit they be smoothed/ by translating praesertim namely, and with his exposition of matters of faith) yet even as they are set down of him/ overthrow the church's liberty in things indifferent. For although they should be inconvenient/ and uncomely yet the matter of inconvenience/ and uncomeliness/ being (by the Ans.) not matter of faith: the church must still be clogged with them/ neither can it by that rule/ shake them off.  
There are a fourth sort of places out of the ancient father's/ wherein he putteth the greatest confidence/ and upon which he hath laid greatest weight: and therefore by hands set over against them/ moveth the reader to lay sure hold on them. These places drawn out of Ambrose upon the Ephes. and of Tertull de virginibus velandis. that of Ambrose being (as hath been showed) very corrupt/ is also a counterfeit/ as shall after be noted. The other of Tertull/ is a flat and a plain Montaniste. it is not unknown/ that Montanus held/ that there was no sufficient instruction given by the Apostles unto the church/ but that there were only certain principles of Religion given by them being unperfect/ and were afterward to be finished/ and polished/ by the comforter which himself did forge. This poison Tertullian having drunk/ he left the Savour of it in divers places/ but in no place more brimly then in this. which may appear/ by the comparisons he useth/ off likening the church of God in the apostles time/ unto a tree whose fruit was not blomed/ and unto one which is in his base age: and the churches after the apostles times/ through revelations (such as he imaginethe the apostles were not able to bear) always marching forward towards a greater ripeness in fruit/ and perfection in age. And if the D. had been a little awakened/ he might have smelled the fraud even in these words/ which he hath been ab used by. For when he imagineth another rule of conversation/ and leading of life of a Chirstian/ then that which hath been given: he might have justly suspected the sentence: seeing the rule of conversation/ comprehended in the commandments/ is unchangeable. And when he addeth/ that that should be done by the grace of God/ receiving increase daily unto the end: he did not obscurely touch/ the head off his error/ which is/ that there shall be still unto the worlds end/ greater graces of the spirit of God given to the church generally/ then hath been before in the apostles times. Wherbie appeareth/ that the places which the A. will have the reader lay so fast hold of/ be thorns not to be once touched / without a hedging glove in one hand/ and a hatche● in the other. We willingly subscribe/ unto the judgement off M. Caluin alleged here.  
And where the Ans. would make peradventure the reader believe/ that by the words of policy and government left to the judgement of the church, Caluin meaneth/ to make these points in controversy at the church's disposition: it shall appear/ both by his several sentences of these things/ that he holdeth them unchangeable/ and by the exposition of M Beza his words/ the same in effect with these off Master Caluin/ which cometh after to be considered.  
It remaineth that seeing the answerer would oppress us/ with the authority of the fathers. We consider/ whether there can be any fit places brought/ for the maintenance of the Admonition/ then the A. hath alleged for him. Augustin/ Whether it be question of Christ, or whethet it 
Contr. literas petit. lib. 3. cap. 6.  be question off his church, or of what thing soever the question be off: I say not if we, but if an angel from heaven, shall tell us any thing beside that you have received in the scriptures under the la, and the gospel, let him be accursed. And jest the Answ. should restrain this general saying unto the doctrine of the gospel/ so that he would thereby shut out the discipline: let him hear what Cyprian saith. The 
Cypri. in ser. de bapti. Chr.  Christian religion (saith he) shall find that out of this scripture, rules off all doctrines have sprung, and that from hence doth springe and hither doth return, whatsoever the Ecclesiastical discipline doth contain. And even Tertull himself/ before he was imbrued with this heresy of Montanus/ giveth testimony unto the discipline/ in 
De prescript. advers. haeret.  these words. We may not give ourselves this liberty, to bring in any thing of our will, nor choose any thing that other men bring in off their will: we have the apostles for authors, which themselves brought nothing of their own will, but the discipline which they received of Christ, they delivered faithfully unto the people. And if the sentence were any thing worth/ which he brought in touching the discipline/ out off Tertull: it maketh against him. For in that he will have that correction of the discipline/ to have the authority of the holy ghost (speaking in his fantastical comforter) he declareth/ that it is not a thing which hangeth upon the will of mortal men. And that in indifferent things/ it is not enough that they be 
2. lib. ad ●●xorem.  not against the word/ but that they be according to the word: it may appear by other places/ Wherehe saith/ that what soever pleaseth not the lord, displeaseth him, and with hurt is received. And in another place he saith/ that the scripture denieth that, which it noteth not. And to come yet nearer/ where 
De Monogam.  he disputeth against the wearing of crown or garland (which is indifferent of itself) to those which objecting asked/ where the scripture saith that a man might not wear a crown: he anwereth 
De coron militis.  by ask/ where the scripture saith, that they may we are. And unto them replying/ that it is permitted which is not for bidden: he answereth/ that it is forbidden, which is not permitted. Whereby appeareth/ that the argument of the scriptures negatively/ holdeth/ not only in the doctrine/ and Ecclesiastical discipline: but even in matters arbitrary/ and variable by the advise off the church. Where it is not enough/ that they be not forbidden/ unless there be some word/ which doth permit the use of them: it is not enough/ that the scripture speaketh not against them/ unless it speak for them: and finally/ where it displeaseth the Lord/ which pleaseth him not: one must off necessity have the word of his mouth/ to declare his pleasure.  
Whether I commonly use to propound things in controversy/ in bore affirmations/ or denials/ without reason: and whether you apply the scriptures/ better than I: and how true it is/ that you have in your former book alleged more scriptures/ then I did in mine (all which things this gloss affirmeth) I leave it to the judgement of the reader.   

Cap. 3. Division 1. pag. 100  
IN the first whole page/ there is nothing to be answered: it being showed/ that it is not our question (which the A. doth so shamefully affirm) whether the scripture have expressed all external ceremonies/ etc. In the next page/ unto me showing that the place of August. to Casulanus is against him/ for that where he would prove/ that certain things are in the church's power/ the words which he allegeth say/ that the decrees of the forefathers/ and coustomes of the people of God are to be observed/ tying the church to the decrees/ and coustomes of those which went before: he answereth/ that August. giveth a rule unto private men and not unto the church. Wherein he condemneth himself/ off having alleged that sentence clean beside the cause. For it is manifest/ by the words immediately going before/ that he alleged it/ to prove the authority of the church in things indifferent: neither can it in any other respect/ have any bond with that/ which he pretendeth to prove. And now that it is showed/ how unfitly the place is alleged: he shifteth his footing/ and in stead of a rule touching the church/ he maketh it a rule for private men: and in stead off showing the liberty of the church/ he showeth the bondage/ that a private man is tied by.  
Where I conclude against him off that sentence of Augustine/ that we aught to follow the coustomes/ and orders off the apostles/ and off the primative churches/ seeing it is certain/ that they were our forefathers/ and the people of God: and that we ought not to follow the Papists/ which are neither the people of God/ nor our forefathers: to the first/ off following the apostles/ he saith/ there were certain things convenient only for their times/ which are not to be followed. Wherein unless he mean those things/ which are in controversy/ it is nothing to the purpose: and if he mean them/ it is a manifest begging off that/ which is in demand. Unto the second point/ off not taking the Papists coustomes/ and decres: he referreth me to other places. Where notwithstanding he never answereth this argument of Augustin: and so in pretence of a fit place/ he hath taken a longer day.  
Where he noteth me of ignorance (in that I said/ I could oppose Ignatius/ and Tertull/ unto August. and Ambrose/ touching the fast upon the lords day) saying/ that there is no difference between them, th'one part speaking off the Saturday, the other of the Sunday: I am contented to bear his charge off ignorance. But is there any man/ so forsaken off all not learning only/ but common reason/ which doth not understand that these propositions differ/ and fight amongst themselves/ it is a detestable thing to fast on the lords day: which is the judgement of Ignatius/ and Tertull: and/ it is lawful to fast on the lords day: Which is the judgement of Augustine/ set down of himself? And when Ambrose/ speaking not only off the Sabbothe off the jews/ but generally/ willeth that whatsoever the custom of the church be in that behalf off fasting, it should be followed: doth he not manifestly overthrow his saying/ which saith/ to fast on the lords day is to kill the Lord? And even in the case off the fast off the jews Sabbothe/ which Casulanus demandeth counsel off/ it appeareth there was great disagrrement between the ancient father's/ considering that in the Canons/ which are attributed unto the Apostles/ 
65. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  it was ordained/ that if one were found to fast on the lords day/ or on the Sabbothe (one only exepted): being a clerk/ he should be deposed/ and being a lay-man/ separated from the supper of the Lord. If I have off ignorance/ set the fathers together by the ears (as he saith): let us see/ how with his knowledge/ he can part them/ and set them at one in this behalf.  
That the fasts which were kept/ in the times of Ambrose/ and Augustine/ and long before/ and their allowance especially off the Lentenne fasts Were corrupt/ and profanations of the true use off fast: if need were/ as I have in part/ so it might in more words easily be showed. That the counsel giuè for the keeping of those superstitious fasts/ might have place in a stranger/ and private man/ which ought not to stand towards a citizen/ and him that hath charge: it is apparent. And yet both these the Answerer would bear down with words/ and nothing but words.  
Where the answ. saying that he knoweth nothing in the place of Augustine/ or Ambrose/ touching fasting/ which may not be observed without just offence/ may be taken either to speak of the places which I alleged/ touching merit off fasting/ or the places which himself alleged: I will rather esteem (until I know the contrary) that he meant off those which he brought himself/ then together with the slip off standing days off fast/ he should also fall flat by opinion/ off the merit in fasting. And so I would have the reader to take him/ that there be no offence taken at this place/ so doubtfully left. Where he bringeth me in concluding/ that because the ancient fathers erred in some things/ therefore they said true in none: my words carry no such sense. But for so much as they erred/ and even in this matter off fast/ which was in hand: they ought to have no further credit/ then their authority is waranted by the word of God/ and good reason. and that therefore the Answ. which presseth their bore authority/ without any ward off the word of God/ or assistance of good reason/ either brought of himself/ or fetched from them/ bringeth an intolerable tyranny into the church of God. This I gave to understand/ which because he durst not in plain words gain say: he hath turned my words unto another sense.  

Cap. 3. Division 2 pag. 103.  
Augustine saith/ that the feast of Easter, Pentecost etc. are the statutes of the Apostles, and commended to the churches, and addeth/ that they are not contained in the scripture. Whereupon I concluded/ that there is some thing (by this reckoning) commanded off God to be observed/ not contained in the scripture: and consequently/ that there is no sufficient doctrine/ contained in the scripture/ whereby we may be saved. To this the Doct. answereth/ that it is a pretty and sound collection. I have in deed for shortness sake/ trussed that into two or three propositions/ which to put in full/ and comptere arguments/ required a greater number: Howbeit the soundness of the collection/ is apparent to all/ which will open their eyes. And because the Ans: will yield no obedience unto the truth/ unless she taking him by the collar/ have her handen upon his throat: the foundenes of the collection shall thus appear unto him. What soever was decreed off the Apostles/ and commended unto the churches to be observed/ is necessary: but some things (by Aug. and the D.) not contained in the word of God/ were decreed and commended by the apostles/ unto the posterity of the churches: therefore some things (by Aug. and the D.) not contained in the word of God/ is necessary to be observed. The first proposition is manifest/ considering that the statutes of the apostles/ are the statutes of Christ: the second is Augustine's/ allowed off the D. and though both these be true/ then the third must needs be.  
This being thus gathered/ that which I added/ that thereupon it followed/ that there is no sufficient doctrine contained in the scriptures: is thus concluded. That which doth not contain all the will off God/ necessary for us to do/ containeth no sufficient doctrine unto salvation: but the scripture (by Aug/ and the d.) conteinethe not all the will off God/ necessary for us to do: therefore the scripture (by Aug. and the d) containeth no sufficient doctrine unto salvation. The first proposition is manifest/ in that S. Paul to deliver himself from the guilt of blood/ towards the 
Act. 20.  Ephes. allegeth/ that he had taught them all the will off God: the second followeth off that which Aug. and the d. allow. for though there be some thing commanded off the apostles/ not contained in the word of God: that being necessary/ it must follow/ that some necessary thing for us to do/ is not contained in the word.  
And where the A. saith/ that neither Aug. nor he say, that any thing not contained in the scripture is so necessary, that it may not be altered (upon just occasion) by such as have authority: he can not mock the world after that sort/ with fast and lose at his pleasure. For if they be statutes of the apostles/ and commended unto the churches: what authority is there upon earth/ which can displace them which the apostles have placed? and if it be madness (as he saith afterward out of Augustin) not to observe them/ or once to reason of them: how can they take order in them? And this answer is overthrown/ by the words of Augustin which follow immediately. But other things (saith he) which are varied by regions (as that some fast upon the sabbothe day, some do not, etc. are at liberty to be observed: neither is there any better rule to a Christian man in these, then to do as the church doth where he cometh. Where it is manifest/ that he opposeth the tradition of the apostles/ and their statutes received by tradition: unto those things/ which are in the church's power to ordain/ and to those wherein it is safe for us to apply ourselves/ to the order off the church. They being therefore in this opposed/ the one being in the church's power/ the other are nor the one being of that sort/ that off which side soever the church determine of them/ a man may safely obey/ the other must needs be off that sort/ that if the church would otherwise ordain of them/ then the apostles: that a man may not safely obey. And in the next sentence/ the things which he opposethe those statutes of the apostles unto/ he calleth indifferent: and thereby giveth to understand/ that he took them for unindifferent. and hitherto pertaineth/ that he allegeth out of August. in Zuinglius name/ and is 
Lively 4. con. Don. ca 23.  found in his book against the Donatists/ where it is said/ that they are to be holden as given by Apostolical authority. Which is more than if he had said/ given by the apostles: considering that there are things given off the apostles as counsels/ and left at the church's order to change upon occasion as were the traditions/ which M. Caluin speaketh off/ but they were never left unto the church/ with an Apostolical authority. Which authority is off the highest nature/ and proceeding from the highest court that can be.  
And that this was Augustine's meaning/ appeareth manifestly by the place which I alleged/ out of his book against the donatists. 
De bapt. contr. Donatist. 5. lib. 23. ca  Where he saith/ that all those things which the church holdeth generally, are to be holden as praeceptes of the apostles, although they be not written: whereunto he answereth nothing. And by that place/ the folly of the answerer whereby he would tune Augustin by master Caluins' wrest/ is more plainly discovered. For where he would have us think that August understood those traditions only/ which pertain to order/ and polity/ that may be varied/ and not unto doctrine: it is manifest/ that Augustin in that place saith/ that the apostles gave commandment, touching the not rebaptising off those which were baptised by Heretics, and that the custom of off the church in not rebaptizing, which was objected against Cyprian, had the beginning off the apostles tradition. Now I would know off the answerer/ whether he dare say/ that this judgement off rebaptizing/ be off traditions/ which may be changed: or whether there can be any just cause/ wherefore this may be altered? And if he dare not say this/ then let him confess his fault/ and not seek to make up his breaches/ by such untempered mortar.  
Where I say/ that thereby there is a gate opened unto the the Papists/ to bring in under the colour off traditions/ all their beggary: he answereth/ that the Papists are rather confuted by this means/ considering that the Pope/ hath neither at all times/ nor in all places been received. Where to let pas/ that to help himself/ he addeth at all times which is not in Augustine's rule: he toucheth not the point off the cause. For in that only that it is said/ that there be precepts of the apostles unto the church/ not contained in the word of God: is pushed at the strongest bulwark/ which the church hath to defend it self/ against the Popish beggary/ and all other corruptions/ Which bulwark is/ that whatsoever is commanded of the Lord unto the church/ is contained in the word off God. if this be once shaken: there is no sufficient resistance left unto the church/ against this assault. For although it hath some great likelihood/ which hath been generally/ and from the apostles times received: yet for somuch as it is not unpossible for the whole church to err in some point/ and to have taken up/ or retained off that which it had before/ some thing not delivered by the apostles: it can be no sufficient bar/ to withstand the corruptions offered to be brought in by the Heretics/ to say that the church hath either done/ or not done/ so/ and so/ sithence the apostles times. And although we might be assured that they are the precepts of the apostles/ which have been so generally received: yet the door is not so close shut against corruptions/ as he pretendeth. For this thing standing that there are commandments given of the apostles/ not contained in the word of god: they may thrust in things/ which have not had that general/ and continual observation. For although Aug. say/ that they are the traditionns of the Apostles/ which are generally received: yet he doth not say that they only are/ and the Heretics whose corruptions should be repulsed in this respect/ that they have not been generally nor always received/ might have an easy reply/ that there is the same prejudice against certain of the commandements of the apostles committed to writing: considering that they have neither generally/ nor continually been received.  
Where he allegeth Zuinglius/ using a sentence of Augustine not much unlike/ to confirm children's baptism: it is to be noted/ that Zuinglins used not that sentence/ but in the confirmation of a thing/ which hath certain testimony out of the word of God/ as hath children's baptism/ whereit could not be dangerous. and then it is to be observed/ that thereby is overthrown his whole answer. For Zuinglius taking that sentence off things/ which have a necessary observation in the church of God/ and can not be changed: putteth to flight his whole answer/ with the defence thereof/ which supposeth Augustine to have given this rule/ off things indifferent. And therefore either the A. is abused/ in understanding these places of things indifferent: or else Zuinglius/ in using this for the necessity of children's baptism/ gave his adversaries great advantage/ whilst they might have answered with the D. that that authority of the apostles is such/ as the church upon consideration may altar. And where he allegeth M. Caluin/ as one which had used that rule of Augustine: I answer/ that it is one thing/ to allow the sentence off a writer: and another thing/ to take some advantage of it when his adversary presseth him with his authority. A man useth some time that defence/ provoked by the manner off assault off his enemy/ which he would not do/ if he might choose his own fight: and it might serve M. Caluin in part/ for arm our against the bore authority of Augustine urged off the Papists/ which is not of proof/ against the shot off the word off God.  
Where he saith/ that the Papists have no wicked thing, which either hath been generally observed, or whereof he is not able to show the first author: I answer/ that it is well the church standeth not in need/ off this defence of yowres. For if the Lenten fast, (which in Augustine's time had been by long custom received) if holy water/ 
Epist. 119.  holy oil/ the superstition off praying towards the East (which are off those traditions/ that in the place by him alleged out of 
lib. de spirit sanct.  Basile/ are attributed unto the Apostles) if those I say/ and such like/ be against the word of God: let him tell how he will clear the apostles/ of being authors of these corruptions/ which are fathered of them by men of such credit/ unless he fly to this rock (which by the doctrine of traditions he goeth about to undermine) that is to say: that the Apostles have left in writing/ whatsoever they would have the churches observe. For what authority soever he bring to show/ who were the first inventors of these things/ it being human/ is countervailed by them/ which have carried them unto the times of the apostles.  
Where upon on that I said/ that all the commandements of God, and off the apostles, are needful for our salvation, he maketh such a terrible owtcrie/ as if all the church had been set on fire: I dowbt whether (for the vanity of the accusation) I should vouchsafe it of answer/ which for the strong/ and bitter words/ might seem to require a large defence. Howbeit let him understand that when I speak of all the commandements of God/ and off the apostles: neither by the deduction off that which I handled/ nor by any judgement/ not altogether perverted/ could I be thowght to mean any other commandments/ then those which pertain unto us. And though I had met with the vainest trifler/ and hawker after syllables/ which can possibly be: yet the sentence I set down/ is sufficiently fenced against all his greediness/ of snapping at it. For the Ceremonial law/ and personal laws given in times passed (being now no commandments of God/ and the apostles) can not be comprehended under my words/ off the commandements of God, etc. And if a man leving the deduction of the cause/ which I had in hand/ will stay in the bore words/ which I used: then even both cermoniall/ and those which were given to particular persons/ albeit they be not to be done/ yet are they for our better instruction in the will off God/ needful for our salvation.  
To the argument which I used/ that if Augustine would have us do those things/ which the apostles used in the churches / not committed to writing: then much more he would have been off advise/ that we should keep that/ which is committed to writing/ touching their government of the church: he answereth nothing.  
In the third division pag. 107. to that I found fault with/ off the second rule of Augustine/ which is/ that it is madness, either not to keep, or to reason off that, which is universally observed off the church: he answereth/ that was a rule for Augustine's time, and not for all times. Wherein/ he first condemneth himself/ off wandering from the cause: which to show/ that some thing may be established in our church/ not commanded in the scripture/ allegeth a rule that belongeth not unto us. Than it is manifest/ how helpless a shift this is/ considering that the rule is general/ and as generally given/ as any other the rules/ which the A. commendeth unto us/ out of Augustine. Beside that I alleged/ that even in August. time/ it was wicked to give any such authority/ to the decree/ or custom of men/ as not to inquire into it: which because he durst not deny/ he left unanswered. And whereas he addeth/ if it be not repugnant to the word: I showed that Augustine/ could have no such meaning: which although he confess in one word/ contrary to that which he set down: yet in the same page (jest the truth should get any victory at his hands) he doth in effect deny it. For he saith/ that Aug. hath sundry times in such rules, made this exception, if they be not against faith, etc. Where it is manifest/ that this exception is of those rules/ which are diversly observed/ and which he openly opposeth/ unto this rule/ and such as this is/ off the necessary observation of things.  
The place unto the Gall. was needfully opposed. For if 
〈…〉.  there be commandements of the apostles unto the churches/ and things which it is madness not to keep/ or to inquire into/ not written: there is something necessary to salvation/ which S. Paul preached not: considering/ that the whole sum of his preaching/ is couched in writing.  
The place of Augustine/ off abrogating ceremonies otherwise indifferent/ he answereth/ was not for his purpose. howbeit/ of his purpose had been/ to have bolted out the truth: it ●● clear/ that having this cause in hand whether ceremonies in themselves indifferent/ ought to be removed: he would not have dissembled it. As for that he chargeth me/ with leving out of things before/ in the midst/ and after/ and thereof hath almost filled a whole side: it is utterly unworthy any answer/ considering that I have left nothing out/ which is in controversy/ nothing which I do not willingly confess/ nothing that he hath any advantage by: yea I left that out/ whereby I could have taken advantage. For beside that the ceremonies with us are in greater number/ then August. alloweth/ all men see/ that they are more urged/ and the omitting of them severelier punished/ then the breach of the commandments of God: in which case he will have them abrogated. For he scapeth far better/ which hath not preached a whole half year in his church/ then which preaching every week twice/ leaveth off his surplis once. And it is better with him/ whose whole life/ then whose cap is out off square: which is enemy of the cross off christ/ then which can not abide the cross in baptism: with those which leave out some ceremony/ in burying the bodies of the dead/ then with those which murder the souls of the living. All which things/ the place of Augustine giving me occasion off. I notwithstanding for shortness sake/ passed by.  
The Answer to the last place of Aug. was needless/ being the same with the third/ which I subscribed unto. The answer to your conclusion/ had been superfluous: I having before declared/ wherein I agreed with you/ and wherein I withstand you. And whereas I lay to his charge/ that he fetcheth rules out off the writings of men, to square the Ceremonies by, which he might have had in the word of god, here certain, and altogether true, which are there uncertain, and in part untrue: he answereth/ that he brought them not for that purpose. wherein/ beside that he calleth them rules/ his answer is directly against that/ which he hath set down. For he (chap. 1. division 9 pag. 94.) making his beginning off the sentence of Saint Paul/ which he saith is a rule for the church/ to examine her ceremonies by pursueth the self same point unto this place. And where he saith/ they are meet for a Divine to know: it is no answer/ considering that it may be profitable/ for a Divine to know many things/ which it is dangerous to propound unto the church/ much more to propound them/ as rules to ground the church's laws upon.  
In the next division/ there is nothing to be answered/ or which hath not been answered before. In the next/ where he saith/ that the private sentences of men in their epistles of these points, are off more credit, then that which they have published unto the whole world: it is a saying/ meet for such a cause as he defendeth. For all understand/ that men be more sudden in letters to their friends/ then in their books: and that they burn more candle/ and make the file off their judgement/ and understanding pass oftener upon those writings/ which they will submit to the judgement of all men/ then to the judgement off one: upon those/ which they know shall come on the rack off their wrangling enemies/ then which shall find rest/ in the bosom of an easy and friendly interpretation: upon those/ which they think shall remain unto all posterity/ then which they think shall die/ at the lest with him to whom they wrote. And therefore if there were occasions/ to move them to speak otherwise in their public writings/ then in their private: yet that turneth all to the advantage off those/ which allege that which was spoken upon the house top: rather than off those/ which press that was rounded in the ear off one man. If their private writings/ vary not from their public/ it is so much better for us: which are well assured/ that the public we have alleged/ stand off our side.  
Where I suppose him/ to attribute the order of church matters/ unto the bishops/ which he parteth with the prince/ and other wise men (albeit it will appear/ that he shutteth out divers/ which have interest in that consultation:) yet he might have some cause to complain in that behalf/ and it was I confess/ my oversight.  
Unto the two next divisions/ pag. 117/ etc. Where I have showed the places of Deut. 4. 12. are still in force/ against the error of the A. which (in saying/ that in the time of the jews, and during that estate, it was not lawful to add any thing, etc.) giveth to understand/ that we are not so straightly bound unto it at this time: he answereth/ that he applied that rule, unto the law of faith, and manners▪ but he should have understanded/ that in restraining the rule after that sort/ thereby shutting out the laws off making orders/ and ceremonies of the church: he still falleth into that fault/ whereof he is accused. For having showed/ that not only in things which he calleth matters of faith/ and manners/ but even in the variable Ceremonies of the church/ there is a word of God: it is also true/ that he is accursed, which in making orders off the church/ followeth not the rule off the laws of God/ provided in that behalf. And I having showed/ that the jews themselves had certain Ecclesiastical Ceremonies in marriage/ burial/ etc. which are not expressly commanded unto them: if they (as he confesseth) had address out of the word of God/ for all their laws off what sort soever and this curse fell of them/ if in their variable laws they either added or diminished from the word of God: it must needs follow/ that the Christians now in their variable laws/ both have a word to direct them/ and a curse for either adding/ or diminishing from that word. Unless he will say/ that the Christians/ in things which were a like left unto the liberty of them/ and the jews/ are les bound to follow the prescript of the word of God/ then were the jews: which is absurd.  
In the places out of jeremy/ and Isay/ it is evident/ that there is set forth/ how there shallbe greater knowledge of the will of god/ under the Gospel/ then under the Law. And even that which I have set down/ off the people which should be as learned under the Gospel/ as the Levites/ and Priests under the law: beside that it containeth a manifest truth, and therefore can not be to flatter the people (as he surmiseth): may be also gathered off the 5. verse of the 56. chap. of isaiah. Where the Lord/ promising to bring the Gentiles into a better place of his temple/ then the jews had before/ doth not obscurely declare/ that which I said.  
Unto the two next divisions pag 118/ etc. for reply I say/ that he answereth not to the matter. For the question is not/ whether we have fewer or more laws than they/ but whether we have direction by those laws which we have/ to all things whatsoever belongeth unto us to do/ as they had to do that/ which appertained unto them. To prove that there is a word of God/ for all things we have to do: I alleged/ that otherwise our estate should be worse, them the estate of the Iewes: Which the Ans. confesseth to have had direction, out of law, in the lest thing they had to do. And when it is the virtue of a good law/ to leave as little undetermined/ and without the compass off the law/ as can be: the A. in imagining/ that we have no word for divers things/ wherein the jews had particular direction: presupposeth gteater perfection in the law/ given unto the jews/ then in that which is left unto us. And that this is a principal virtue of the law/ may be seen/ not only by that I have showed/ that a conscience well instructed/ and touched with the fear of God/ seeketh for the light off the word of God/ in the smallest actions: but even by common reason/ the masters whereof give this rule/ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that is to say/ that it greatly 
Aristot. ad Theode.  behoveth those laws, which are well made (as much as can be) to determine of all things, and to leave as few things as may be to the discretion of the judges. Where he saith/ that the examples I brought of orders/ which the jews did well observe/ whereof there was no express mention in the law of God/ make not to the purpose, for that, he spoke off ceremonies, used about the worship of God: I answer/ that that which I have alleged is a manifest confutation of those words/ which he hath set down/ neither was there the lest thing, to be done in the church, omitted in the law. For are not these things/ which I brought example off/ to be done in the church: are they not Ecclesiastical orders: yea are not part of them (which he denieth) pertaining to the service of God? If these orders/ off the hour for the morning/ and afternoon sacrifice/ off preaching the word of God in a place where it may be best hard/ off fasting for the better humbling off the people before the lord in prayer/ be not orders/ and Ceremonies pertaining to the worship of God: then the daily sacrifices/ preaching the word of God/ and calling upon his name/ (whereunto these belonged) are no parts off the worship of God: then the which there is nothing more absurd. And verily this is not/ by juggling/ or slight off hand/ to deceive the eyes off the reader: but by flat facing/ to endenour to make him turn them from the truth. That which I said/ off the jews Ecclesiastical government/ by the moral and Ceremonial law only/ and not by the judicial: (as that which may be cast down with reasons out of the word of God/ which is here only done by authority of men) I am well content it fall. So that I have no fault to find with the Ans. in this behalf/ but that the weapon he struck this with all/ was not sharp enough.  
Division 5. pag. 120 etc. Of the number of things/ which the jews had not particularly decided by the law/ the reason is apparent/ which I have assigned: that this hindereth not/ but that there is a word/ and general commandment to direct them by/ hath been showed: that it is a vain cavil/ that maketh doubt/ whether in saying/ that we have the same laws to direct us in the service of God, which the jews had, I mean the Ceremonial law, or not, appeareth by that/ which I set down (in the third division. p. 118.) where/ I receiving the moral law/ for our direction/ left the Ceremonial. and of the same sort is that which he wrangleth in/ because I say/ the new Testament is a noble addition unto the old: considering that I adding wherein/ namely that it maketh the old more manifest, and bringeth greater light: shut out all/ even the lest occasion off such trifling. And 
Upon 2. Tim. 3.  this manner of speech that I have used/ Master Caluin which is here opposed/ hath himself used. Where he calleth in this respect/ the gospel an addition unto the law. it remaineth to see/ whether in the matter off the judicial law/ that which I have set down be strange/ and dangerous (as the A. surmiseth) or no.  
It is not (as the A. surmiseth untruly) that the magistrate is simply bound unto the judicial laws of Moses: but that he is bound to the equity/ which I also called the substance/ and marrow of them. In regard off which equity/ I affirmed that there are certain laws amongst the judicials/ which can not be changed. And hereof I gave example/ in the laws which command/ that a stubborn Idolater/ blasphemer/ murderer/ incestuous person/ and such like/ should be put to death. For the first point/ that the equity of the iudicialls doth remain/ and therefore ought to be a rule/ to 
Cal. Institu. 4. cha.  direct all laws by/ to let pass the authority of M. Caluin/ M. Beza/ and other writers of our time/ that have written with any judgement of this matter (which do in plain words affirm that 
20. s. 15. Bez. in his book of putting Here. to death.  there is a perpetual equity in them/ and that our laws albeit they differ in form/ yet ought to retain the reason/ or ground of them) I say to let that pass: it is to be considered/ that all these laws moral/ Ceremonial/ and judicial being the laws of God/ and by his revealed will established/ must so far forth remain/ as it appeareth not by his will/ that they are revoked.  
And seeing that the alteration which is come in this behalf/ is by the coming off our Saviour Christ only: it is to be inquired/ what those laws are/ which he put end unto. Which thing may be considered/ in that division which Saint Paul useth/ where he saith/ that our Sa. Christ came/ to make peace/ first between God and men/ and then between men and men: that is to say/ between 
Ephes, 2.  the jews/ and Gentiles. The Ceremonial law therefore/ being a law of enmity (which as a wall held out the Gentiles/ from joining themselves unto the jews) was necessary amongst other causes/ in this respect/ to be taken away. The curse off the law/ for the breach of any the laws of god/ either pertaining to the jews in times past or unto us now/ being that which maketh the wall between the Lord and us: was for our reconciliation with his majesty/ necessarily to be removed. Whereupon followeth/ first that the moral law (as that which neither hindereth our reconciliation with the Lord/ not our good agreement with men) is in as full strength as ever it was before the coming of our Saviour Christ. For the curse off the law/ beside that it is in regard off the elect/ rather fulfilled/ and executed in the person of our Sa. Christ/ then abrogated: beside that also/ it hath a necessary use as yet towards the elect/ not only to drive them to the faith which is in Christ jesus/ but also to keep under the remantes of rebellion/ even of them which have already believed: and beside that the force thereof/ is daily/ and shallbe for ever/ execured upon the wicked: beside all this/ seeing this curse was annexed/ not only to the breach of the moral law/ but also of the Ceremonial/ and judicial: there is no just cause why the moral law should be said to be abrogated. At the lest/ it can not stand (which the Ans. hath very dangerously set down) that the whole law of god generally is abrogated. For if a man will make the curse a part of all the moral law/ where it is rather a necessary adjoinct/ unto the breach of the law/ then a part thereof: yet notwithstanding/ that part off the moral law which standeth in commanding and forbidding/ remaineth unshaken/ and as concerning abrogation/ untouched off our Sa. Christ.  
Secondly/ it followeth hereupon/ that those judicial laws of Moses/ which are merely politic/ and without all mixture of Ceremonies/ must remain/ as those which hinder not/ the atonement of the jews/ and Gentiles with God/ or off one of them/ with an other. Beside that/ it being manifest/ that our Sa Christ came not/ to dissolve any Good government off comen wealth: he can least of all be thowght/ to have come to dissolve that which himself had established. And off this point/ the Ans. hath two contrary sentences: one of Musculus/ which saith/ that the judicial law is abrogated, the other of Beza/ which is the same with that which I have brought reasons off: that is to say/ that the judicial law being given unto the jews, is not 
Beza in his former book.  yet abrogated, so that though they had any estate off common wealth, in the Land of Canaan, they should be constrained, to use that form of government, which was given unto them of Moses. Now albeit those laws/ given unto the jews for that land do not bind the Gentiles in other lands/ for somuch as the diversity of the disposition of the people/ and state of that country gave occasion off some laws there/ which would not have been in other places/ and people's: yet forsomuch as/ there is in those laws a constant/ and everlasting equity/ whereupon they were grounded/ and the same perfecter/ and farther from error/ then the forge off man's reason/ (which is even in this behalf/ shrewdly wounded) is able to devise: it followeth/ that even in making politic laws/ for the common wealth/ Christian Magistraites ought to propound unto themselves those laws/ and in light of their equity/ by a just proportion off circumstances of person/ place/ etc. frame them.  
Furthermore/ that this equity of the judicial law/ remaineth not as a counsel/ which men may follow if they list/ and leave at their pleasure/ but as a law/ whereunto they be bound: what better proof can we have/ then the Apostle? Which after he had alleged divers similitudes/ fetched off the common 
1. Cor. 9  use off men/ to prove that a Minister off the Gospel/ aught to be maintained off the churches charged/ unto the adversary/ which might except/ that those were but human reasons: he allegeth/ as the eternal law of God/ one off the judicial laws 
Deu. 25. 4.  of Moses/ which was/ that a man should not mousell the mouth, of the ox which treadeth out the corn. Where it is manifest that he doubteth not/ to bind the conscience of the Corinth's/ 
1. Cor. 9  unto the equity of that law/ which was judicial. Likewise/ of the finding off the priests/ in the service off the altar/ commanded in the law: he concludeth/ that those which preach the gospel/ should live off it. And this maintenance of the priests/ albeit in the manner of provision/ it was ceremonial: yet as it was a reward of their service/ due by men (as the punishments also/ if they had failed in their duties) was mere judicial. Whereupon it is brought to pass/ that in those iudicialls/ to all the circumstances whereof we are not bound: we are notwithstanding bound to the equity.  
It remaineth to show/ that there are certain judicial laws/ which can not be changed/ as that a blasphemer/ contemptuous/ and stubborn Idolater/ etc. aught to be put to death. The doctrine which leaveth this at liberty/ when they can allege no cause off this looseness/ but the coming off our Saviour Christ/ and his passion/ faulteth many ways. And first/ it is a childish error/ to think that our Saviour Christ came down/ to exempt men from corporal death/ which the law casteth upon evil doers: when as he came not to deliver from death/ which is the parting off the body from the soul/ but from that which is the separation both of body/ and soul/ from the gracious presence of the lord. And if it were so/ that our Sa. Christ had borne in his own body/ this civil punishment off public offenders: it must follow thereupon/ not (which the Doctor Phansieth) that it is in the liberty of the Magistrate, to put them to death: but that he must/ will he/ nill he (if they repent) keep them alive. For if our Sa. Christ hath answered that justice of God in his law/ whereby he hath commanded/ that such malefactors should be put to death: it should be great injustice/ to require that again/ in the life of the offender. So that either our Sa. christ/ hath answered that justice of God/ which he requireth in his law/ concerning the death of such offenders/ and than it can not be asked again/ in the body of the offender: or else he hath not answered it/ and than it remaineth of necessity/ to be answered in the life of the offender.  
Again/ this opinion is injurious unto the death/ and whole appearing/ off the son of God in flesh. For where he appepeared for this cause/ that he might destroy sin/ which is the 
1. Iohn ●.  work off the Devil: the Answerer in his imagination of choice/ which he leaveth to the Magistrate/ touching the putting of such horrible offenders to death/ doth at unawares as much as in him lieth/ make our Sa. Christ build again that kingdom of sin/ which he hath destroyed. For when both in common reason/ and by the manifest word of God before alleged/ the Lord giveth 
Deut. 19  this blessing unto the punishment of such grievous offenders by death/ that others not only which see/ but also which hear of them/ have the bridle off fear put upon them/ whereby they are withholden from the like crimes: it must needs follow that whosoever maketh our Saviour Christ/ author of this looseness/ in punishing such offenders: maketh him forthwith/ to loose the bridle/ whereby others are stayed/ from throwing themselves down the hill of wickedness/ which was before committed. And what is/ if this be not/ to make our saviour christ/ a troubler off common wealths?  
Moreover if our Sa. Christ by his coming/ loosed these civil punishments/ and pourchased this grace off his Father/ for blasphemers/ etc. that if they could find favour in the eyes off the Magistrate/ they might escape the hands of death/ which the law of God adjudged them unto: how cometh it to pass/ that the apostles/ to whom the Lord committed the publishing off all that pardon/ which he obtained for us/ did never make mention off the slacking of these punishments? If our Sa. christ/ had obtained this liberty/ it was worthy the preaching. And therefore unless the A. can show something/ out off the writings of the apostles/ to warrant this sanctuary/ which he would so feign build to the support off blasphemers/ murderers/ etc. it followeth/ that the Apostles (by his saying) have not answered the trust committed unto them. But if all godly minds do abhor these absurdities/ there is no cause/ why they should like of this corruption of the Doctor/ whereupon all these depend. Na/ in that the apostle putteth a sword in the hand of 
13. Rom.  the Magistrates/ and in the use of it maketh him a Minister/ and servant of the vengeance and justice of the Lord against sin: he striketh thorough this opinion/ which imagineth that our sa. christ/ came to hang the sword of the lords justice/ upon the pleasure and will of men. For the Magistrate being the lords officer/ as the Sheriff is the Magistrates: it is no more in his choice/ to withhold the sword/ which the lord hath put in his hand to draw: then in the power off the Sheriff/ to stay the execution of that judgement/ which the magistrate himself hath lawfully commanded. Now seeing there is a sword in the Magistrate's hand/ by the doctrine of the apostles/ and that also which the magistrate must of duty draw: I would gladly know off the A. where that necessity can be found/ if it be not in these crimes of blasphemy/ etc. Which I have set down? And if he say that S. Paul by the sword/ understandeth all manner off civil punishments/ as well by the purse/ as by other bodily chastisements/ which spare the life: I grant it/ but by an used manner of speech/ which noteth the whole by the part/ he rather chose to utter those punishemets by the sword/ then either by the whip/ or by the purse. Whereby he did not only not exclude/ this necessity off punishing malefactors by death: but laid rather a straighter bond upon the magistrate/ to execute those/ which commit things worthy of death. Hitherto generally/ of putting those to death/ which commit things against the laws remaining still in force/ as they were in times past established off the lord/ in the blood of the transgressors.  
Now I will come to the particular crimes/ which I have set down. And first for the crime of adultery/ it is to be considered/ that it is a breach off the most holy/ and ancient both institution / and solemn covenant of the Lord. Then/ that it is an injury done unto the innocent part/ in the most precious possession that can be/ in things pertaining to this present life/ joined with dishonour/ caste not only upon the person/ but upon all his children/ and in a manner of all those which belong unto him. Thirdly/ that this fire/ doth not only waste the family where it is/ but maketh a breach into the common wealth/ whilst the right of inheritance either of lands/ or offices/ is oftentimes thus translated from the true inheritors: whilst the children which are so begotten/ having oftentimes less care/ and cost bestowed upon them in their education/ become hurtful members of the common wealth. Whereby all men may clearly see the perpetual equity of the law of God in the revengement of this sin by death.  
And when the lord addeth this/ for a reason of putting the adulterer to death/ that the evil may be taken out of Israel: 
Levit. 19 29.  unto the heap off incommodities before rehearsed/ for fault off executing his judgement of death/ he threateneth the whole common wealth/ with mischief to fall upon it. And the equity of this punishment by death/ hath so ligthsome colours upon it/ that even in this glimmering sight/ which remaineth in the accursed nature of men/ it hath upholden itself against the ignorance/ and injustice of all which have not willingly put forth/ that sparkle which standeth in the discretion of honesty. For even before this candle light of the law of God was set up/ not only the Godly (as job) which were in some part reformed/ of the 
job. 31. 11.  General blindness: but even those which were not of the church of god/ as Abimelech the king of Gerar/ and the very Canaanites (as long as there was any step of equity amongst them) did see 
Gen. 26. 11. Gen. 38. 24.  that the filth of this sin was such/ as aught to be washed away with the blood of the offenders. For unhereas Isaac feared the assault/ both of his life/ and of the chastity of Rebecka: the king ordained/ that whosoever either laid violent hand of him/ or had to do with his wife/ should die. And in that juda/ called for Thamar/ to be led forth to death in the land of Canaan/ where himself was but a private man/ for that she being made sure unto a husband/ played the harlot: he gave to understand/ that the Canaanites/ which had even then filled a Good part off that measure of sin/ unto the brink whereof they came afterward/ did notwithstanding poursne adulterers unto death.  
And when the Lord did afterward give testimony unto this punishment/ by the express words of his law: it is manifest/ that the law which God hath written/ in the table of the hearts of all men/ pronounceth the sentence of death against adulterers. So that unless men/ will like Giants fight against the light of nature/ or say that our Sa. christ/ came to abolish that which in all times/ and with all nations (not altogether spoiled off the discretion of honesty/ and dishonesty) was observed: it followeth/ that the punishment of death against adulterer's/ and consequently much more against incestuous meetings/ standeth in as full force now/ as ever it did/ before the coming of our Sa. Christ. And when as adultery being the lest of those faults which I have set down/ is found worthy of death. It is easy to see/ what is the judgement of the rest.  
Howbeit having spoken somewhat before/ off the civil punishment of those which offend against the service of God/ and more being to be said upon occasion afterward: that the necessary punishment of murderers by death/ may have with the rest some particular defence/ let some thing be said thereof. first the consent off all nations (were they never so savage) in punishing this sin with death/ teacheth that it is the law of nature: which can not be broken/ nor dispensed with. it is further to be noted/ that the causes remaining/ whereupon that necessity of punishment by death/ was ground in the law: the punishment must still remain. The Lord showeth these causes/ 
Nomb. 35 33. 34.  of not saving the life of a murderer at any hand/ first because the blood which his hand hath shed, polluteth the land, so that there can be no purgation of it, but in the blood of the murderer: secondly/ because the Israelites,/ which were the people of God) and thirdly/ because the lord himself, had his abode there. considering first/ that the strength of this sin in polluting a land/ is as great as ever it was (unless for grace/ given to one murderer/ men will/ call the wrath of God/ upon a whole people:) the necessity off putting murderers to death remaineth unshaken. Then/ forasmuch as Christian common wealths/ are the people of God/ amongst whom he maketh special residence: beside the common obligation/ whereby all men are bound in the law of nature/ to punish a murderer by death: Christian common wealths/ have two new bonds/ whereby they are tied to a more straighter observation/ of this severity. Last of all/ as this judicial law was given of God long before Moses: so not to be in the 
Gen. ●.  number of laws/ corrected by the coming of our Sa. Christ: it is manifest by his own words/ whereby he confirmed this law of God/ saying/ that whosoever took up the sword should 
Math. 26:  perish with the sword. And there is no doubt/ but if he had had like occasion/ to speak of other civil punishment by death/ established in the law/ as he had of this/ he would have brought the same confirmation of them/ that he did off this.  
The exceptions against this doctrine/ are off no valwe. For if this be the truth of God/ there can be no prerogative against it: unless he can show/ some higher court than heaven/ and some chief justice above the Lord, it is not denied/ but the punishments by death/ wherewith men have established laws/ which themselves have for their better commodity devised/ may be either mitigated or taken away/ by those to whom it appertained/ neither is the magistrate/ by any thing I have set down/ bound to mitigate the punishment of thieves. for their punishment may grow/ by the circumstance of place/ as in Scythia/ where all things lying open to the spoil/ had need to belocked up by a straighter punishment: and some times/ by the disposition of the people/ lighter handed than others/ as if one had to do with the Lacedemoniens/ or some other nation/ in whom that sin had taken deeper root. And I will not deny▪ but even these crimes of murder/ and adultery/ may vary by divers circumstances: and therefore it is in the discretion of the magistrate/ according to the quantity of the fault/ to appoint the manner of death/ sharper or softer. But that there is any place/ time/ or other circumstance/ which can lessen these crimes/ that they should not be worthy of death: upon the reasons before alleged/ I utterly deny.  
As for the casting away/ of the study/ and large volumes of the law/ which he imagineth to follow of this assertion: he deceiveth himself. For even when these laws were fully in force/ the judges thereof (by reason of their shortness/ comprehending many things not expressed) had matter enough to occupy the greatest diligence/ memory and sharpness of wit/ that could fall into any. And if he ask our lawyers/ upon what grounds the greatest part of their huge volumes (as he calleth them) stand they will answer him/ they partly stand upon the plain words of the law of Moses/ and partly of reason uncorrupt/ which is the equity of the law urged off us. And therefore although our laws/ be some time in form diverse/ from the laws of Moses: yet they will never grant him (which he hath/ not so advisely set down) that our healthsome laws, be contrary to Moses laws. For both being Good/ one off them can not be contrary to the other. where he saith/ that we of the clergy, should be the best judges by this means, etc. it is to open injury/ to charge us with that/ which we openly renounce/ and condemn in him: which is/ that in meddling in civil affairs/ they put their sickle in an other man's harvest. notwithstanding if in establishing of laws/ for the Godly/ and peaceable government of the common wealth/ there may be no assistance of the ministery/ whereby the laws should be the better compassed/ to the equity prescribed in the word of God/ and to take heed that nothing be done against it: there is no just cause/ to uphold the Bishop's presence in the Parliament house. Where he saith/ that the laws which our sa. Christ made Mat. 5. 19▪ touching divorcement for adultery, had been to no purpose, if the adulterer should off necessity be put to death: first/ he may be here justly charged with that he hath untruly surmised of me/ because he bringeth in our sa. christ/ a maker of laws under the gospel, whereas he made none in those places/ but expounded the law of God/ which he had made from the beginning. The other refusals made by the jews of their wives/ were never any laws/ but permissions only: and therefore in there abolishement/ there was no law of God abrogated. Secondly/ it was necessary to use that exposition/ notwithstanding that the punishment of the law by death remained. For beside that the jews/ being under the government of the Romans had those civil punishments by death/ suspended upon 
john 18. 31.  the pleasure off their officers/ which were often corrupted: our sa. Christ (forcing all things) did foresee/ what looseness would follow in this behalf. And therefore as the office of a Good Doctor required/ he instructed the conscience/ and taught/ that albeit the Magistrate failed/ in the execution of the law/ yet that the former yoke being broken/ men were at their liberty/ to enter into a new contract of marriage with other. Whereby he met with the corrupt opinion of those/ which dream that the knot of marriage/ is not cut a sunder by adultery/ during the life of the parties married. Of the authorities which are brought/ to prove that the punishments by death of the law of God/ are taken away there is not one only/ but cyril/ which maketh against this cause/ yea which doth not either in part/ or altogether/ overturn his assertion.  
And as for Cyrill/ I can at no hand allow: the reason shall appeeare/ where the claws of this sentence are more plainly seen. Augustine in the place cited unto Pollentius/ hath nothing for the Doctor. For he setteth himself to prove upon the place of S. john/ that the howsband aught to forgive his wife/ seeing our sa. Christ forgave the adulteress. Wherein/ not to enter into question/ whether that be well reasoned of Augustine/ or no/ and to pass by the advantage/ which Erasmus authority may give/ which calleth that sentence of August. a hard sentence: I answer/ that it is one thing to say/ a private man should forgive his iviuries, 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  and nother thing to say/ that the Magistrate is not bound to take advengement of them. A private man/ may with commendation forgive the trespass against himself/ where the magistrate shallbe in great fault/ if he poursew not it. And if that place of August. pertain unto the Magistrate/ and our Sa. Christ's example prove/ that the Magistrate need not punish adultery by death: it proveth as well/ that he need not punish adultery at all. For both our Sa. christ/ forgave her f●ely/ and gave no sentence of any civil punishment against ●●r and Augu will have the howsband/ freely forgive his adulterous wife Nay the place of Augustine maketh against him. for ●n that he exhorteth the howsband/ to spare the blood or life of his wife/ it appeareth/ that in the church of God/ in his times/ this crime of adultery was punished by death.  
Musculus/ albeit his manner of speech (in saying that all Moses is abrogated) be hard: yet I would first ask him/ what advantage he can take here/ for the abrogation of the judicial/ which is not the same against the Moral. Then let it be observed/ how far against the meaning of the author/ the Ans. hath wrong this sentence and how he is but a snatcher at sillabels/ and a tearer of learned men's words from their meaning. The meaning off Musculus was/ that these laws abrogated as they were given by Moses/ remain notwithstanding as they contained a perpetual equity. For in the same title of laws he writeth thus. There are 
In them c. of punis. of forbidden lust.  (saith he) which think, that Christ did abrogate the punishment, prescribed by the law against adulterers, when he said, neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more. These be gay fellows, they think not of this, that our Sa. Christ came into the world, not to judge, or punish, but to save sinners: and yet in the mean season, not to take away the punishments of the law, given of God his father, by Moses. Whereupon he said not simply, I condemn the not, or thou oughtest not to be condemned off any, etc. And so showeth/ how if she had been condemned/ according to the sentence off the law: that the Lord would not have said against it.  
The like trust he hath used/ in alleging of M. Caluin. Which albeit he say/ that there be certain judicials/ to the precise observation whereof the magistrate is not bound (which I did likewise set down) yet that he esteemed certain judicials unchangeable/ and those especially which I have alleged: it may appear/ in that he calleth it the Popish divinity, that the sentence 
In his come. up john. Har. in Mo. super iudic. 7. mandati.  off our Sau. christ/ in the eight of john/ brought any grace to adulterers/ as touching the civil punishment. And in an other place he saith/ that it is the common right, or law of all nations, that adulterers should be put to death which he affirmmeh also of murderers/ in the place set down by the D.) and that it is a sortishe imitation of our Saviour, and proceeding from a gross ignorance: Under colour off the place in S. john/ s. to release the punishment of adulterers/ prescribed in the law. And in an other place/ speaking of the false Prophet/ which turning 
Har. in c. 13. v. 5: Deut.  away the people from God/ is commanded to be put to death) he saith/ that law is everlasting, appertaining as well unto us now/ as unto the jews in times past: and pincheth them which say otherwise.  
As for M. Beza/ which is here brought/ it is known/ that even in the same book/ out of which these testimonies be cited off the Ans. he proveth/ that heretics ought by virtue of the law of God given by Moses to be put to death. Whereby appeareth/ that all these will have certain judicials/ off moses/ and those especially that give sentence of death/ against the crimes which I setdowne/ to be still in as full force as ever they were. Unto whom I could add Peter Martyr/ which hath a long dispute off the necessary observation/ off the punishment of the law against adulterers. And as for Hemingius/ considering that he agreeth/ that so much remaineth off necessity/ as pertaineth to the laws of nature: he maketh nothing against me which both have showed/ and further am ready to show: that all those crimes are off that kind/ which by the law of nature/ aught to receive the reward of death. How for so much as the 8. Division off the 2. cha. in the 3. Tract. pertaineth unto this matter: I will here set down the answer of it.   

8. Diviston. pa. 149.  
Here is to encounter with Zacharie the Prophet/ Cyrill/ and such a corrupt sentence of Cyrill/ as doth at once/ both overthrow under the law/ the justice of God against sin/ in the world to come: and under the Gospel/ all manner off corporal punishments in this world/ to be executed by men/ upon those which having done evil/ repent them. For it doth not only affirm/ but it goeth a bout to prove: that the sin which was under the law punished by corporal death/ could not be punished off the lord/ by eternal death/ which as it is a wicked error (the reward of sin being not only death of 
Rom. 6.  the body/ but of the soul also:) so the two pillars whereof it standeth/ are as detestable.  
For the first/ which is/ that they have suffered punishment for their sins, and received the reward off their wickedness, so that for that fault which they so suffer for, there can be no revengement afterward hang over their souls: it is no less despiteful to the justice of god and injurious to the death of Christ: then the popish doctrine of supererogation. For if an adulterer by suffering death for his crime/ hath answered the justice of god/ so that the lord for that fault/ can not take advenge ment of his soul: when a man suffrethe without cause and for righteousness sake/ how ought he not beside his own purgation for sin/ purchase somewhat for him that lacketh?  
As for the other reason/ it is most false. For the lord, punish the one sin/ by other sins/ by death in this world/ and by death in the world to come, it is also a false ground of the Pelagian heretic/ wherewith he would prove/ that our original corruption is no sin/ which can deserve the wrath off God. And as the former part fight the for the Papists/ and for the Pelagians: so this other/ standeth for the anabaptists/ men whom the aswerer pretendethe/ to have war with/ but to whom in deed/ he ministrethe weapons (such as they be) to fight against the truth. For if this be not anabaptistical/ that there is no bodily punishment laid upon public offenders under the gospel, and that whatsoever offence he commit, if he show tokens of repentance, he may be delivered from bodily punishment: I know not what is Anabaptism For what murderer is there/ what traitor/ etc. which although he be never so unrepentante/ and obstinate in his sin having heard tell off the answerers gracious pardon/ will not enforce himself/ to show all tokens of repentance? which if he do/ the eye off men's judgement being not able to pierce further/ then to these outward signs: they must have him for repentante/ although he remain the same which before. And if there be one such sentence/ in all either the admonition/ or my reply/ so injurious to the office of the magistrate/ so pernicious unto all manner of common wealths/ as this is: we refuse not (that I may also promise' for the Admonitors) to be taken as enemies/ unto the magistrate and as overturners off common wealths. For this is the sword (which S. Paul put in the magistrates hand 
Rom. 13. / to be drawn not of pleasure/ but off duty/ not against the unrepentante only but against the unrighteousness of those which shall publicly offend whatsoever) either stricken clean out of his hand: or else if ante remain/ it is more worthy to be called the sign of the sword/ then the sword. Now if two notable errors/ be able to prove one truth: he may be thought to have brought something/ for the justifying off this pulling down off the wall of the common wealth. But if it must needs be false/ which hath nothing to lean upon but error: I doubt not but as the untruth of it doth by it self appear: so by this so shameless defence/ it is laid more open.  
And where he saith/ that this sentence of Cyrill, may Minister occasion of quarreling unto such as be disposed: I answer/ that there can be no peace with this sentence/ but by betraying the truth: and that the untruth of it is so apparent/ that all the patched shifts which he hath/ shall never be able to hide it. But howsoever it be (saith he) this is evident. What: forsooth that the quantity of sin is not to be esteemed, according to the external punishment. How is it evident/ by what word/ or by what sentence? if the authority of the sentence fall: if it consisting upon two parts/ have never a one true: if in that very point for which it is alleged/ it is most false: where is your how so ever? you are a dangerous adversary to deal with all/ for whether the profess you t bring be true/ or whether they be false: they fall still upon your side.  
But if the heynousenes of the sin/ be not to be esteemed according to the corporal punishment: whereby is it then to be esteemed? according (say you) unto the commandment of god, according to the threats of god pronounced against it. As though it were not the commandment of God/ that there should be bodily punishment: and as though the civil punishments in this world/ were not part of those threats/ wherewith the lord threateneth the breakers of his law. You make therefore an opposition/ where none is: And it is all one as if you had said/ the corn may not be moten with a bushel/ but with a measure. For as the bushel/ is one measure: so is the corporal punishment/ both one of the commandments/ and off the threats 
prover. 6.  of god/ against open sins. Solomon proveth Adultery to be a greater sin/ then theft: for that where a thief was not/ the adulterer was purswed unto death, whereby it is manifest/ that She lomo was of this judgement/ that in open faults/ committed against a godly/ and honest peace: the greater faults ought to be punished/ with more grievous punishment. And if equality of punishment in unequal faults/ be injustice: how much more is it injust/ to punish greater faults/ with les/ and lesser with greater punishments? And therefore that nothing should be wanting/ to prove the doctor a perfect confounder/ and tumbler of things in to the heaps of disorder: he doth not only put no difference/ between the things which are separate: but in those also which are joined together/ he imagineth such enmity: as if the one standing/ the other could not remain. And as for his reason/ that we see smaller faults punished with greater torment: the question is not what we see done/ but what ought to be done. I grant that one/ and the same fault/ may be punished sharpelier in one country/ then in an other: in the same country also sharpelier at some time/ then at an other: But I deny/ that thereof it followeth/ that in the same country/ and at the same time/ a greater fault should be punished with light punishment/ and a lighter with a great: which thing/ seeing you except against a general rule/ ought to have been showed. And the vanity of this starting whole/ which is sought in the diversity of countries/ may partly appear/ in that to the people of the jews/ and in the country of jewry the lord did never make law/ to punish a les fault/ by a greater punishment. And yet it is certain/ both that people and country/ had some thing different from others: and that in giving laws to that people/ he had respect both to them and their country. whereby I conclude/ that diversities of punishments/ according to the state of the country's/ may be established: although there be no such disorder committed/ off punishing small faults grievously/ and grievous faults. smally.  
And whereas he saith/ that he maketh the difference of the severity of the law, and lenity of the gospel no further then in respect of the temporal punishment of the law: even that is the very point/ wherein a great part of the error of the Manichees/ doth consist. For they were led/ to condemn the justice of God under the old Testament: because off the owtewarde punishments/ which were exercised/ partly by the hand of God by judgements from heaven: partly by the ministery of men/ at the commandment of the law/ therefore the savour of Manichisme/ is still as hot as ever it was.  
And because I am entered into the mention off this/ although the answerer can not hyrte off it: yet the truth is/ that even in these outward punishments/ the dispensation of God under the law/ is divers from that which is under the gospel. For under the scolemastershipe of the law/ as he crowned the obedience of it/ for the most part/ with greater abundance off outward blessings/ then he doth the obedience of his saints under the Gospel: so did he with more terrible/ oftener/ and more manifest judgements/ revenge the breach of it in that time/ then he doth now. And herein indeed is the difference which he is groping a bout: but that this should bring any diversity/ in the set and ordinary punishments/ prescribed by the law: I for my part can not understand/ The contrary rather I can gather. For even as although the lord doth not now by outward blessings/ give so plentiful testimony unto the obedience of the gospel/ as then off the law: yet the magistrate ought to be as diligent/ to procure the Good of the church/ as ever he was in the time of the law: even so/ although the lord by bodily punishments/ doth not so severely revenge as he did then: yet the magistrate/ may not remit any thing therefore of that severity/ which he was wont to use. Nay more: even as the magistrate/ ought so much more carefully procure/ the outward welfare of the church now: as the lord withdrawethe his hand that ways/ more now/ then he did then: even so ought he to keep/ by so much a harder hand/ over the punishment of sin now/ then he did then: as the lord/ more rarely thundereth by his judgements from heaven/ now/ then he did in the time of the law.  
And surely/ if there ever had been any time/ wherein the magistrates sword might have rested/ and rusted in the sheath: the time of the law/ of all had been fitteste: when the lord/ did so visibly sit in his judgement seat/ and himself in proper person/ hold the assize/ and gail delivery. The causes off that diversity/ between the law/ and the Gospel/ which I have alleged/ may be fetched from those learned men/ which handle this point: it is enough for me/ so to have helped the answerer out/ with that which he travailed with: that I have not only showed/ how this cause is nothing hindered/ but greatly helped thereby.  
if the plain words of the Prophet Zacharie/ will not serve for our purpose: what shall become off your cause/ that hath never a word of the scripture? let us then hear/ why it will not serve. Because forsooth by that means, the parents should have power of death upon their children: and therefore their must some other sense be sowgthe/ then that which the words do proporte. Whereunto I answer/ that Moses shewing what ought be 
Deut. 13. 9 ver.  done/ against those false teachers/ which go about secretly/ to withdraw from the true worship of God: saith/ that although he be his brother/ his soon/ his dawgther/ or his wife/ he shall not spare/ but fill them. Tell men own I pray you/ doth not Moses mean there truly/ and as his words sound/ that the false teacher shall die? If you dare not deny it: than you see/ your reason which you here assign/ is nothing worth: for there also/ it is commanded to the father/ to kill his son.  
Now if you list to learn/ you may perceive that by these words/ understanded simply/ there is no power given to one private man/ to kill another/ nor for the parent (as a private man) to kill his children: but this manner of speech/ is grounded upon the law of God/ whereby it was provided/ that the witness 
Deut. 17. 7. ver.  which had accused/ should throw the first stone against the convicted person. for so much therefore/ as both Moses/ and Zachary after Moses/ will have the father accuser of his own child/ if the knowledge of his enticement to Idolatry/ remain with him alone: therefore also they ascribe the killing of the guilty person unto them/ as a thing belonging unto the duty of the accuser.  
But seeing this sense please the you not/ let us here what you bring. If (saith he) you will refer it to the time of the gospel, than this is the true meaning: if to the time of the law, than that. If all be gospel you speak/ we must needs believe you▪ if your words have no further authority/ then you give them by Good reason/ and conference of the scriptures: then casting a way the sense/ which hath warrant off the manifest words of the Scripture: you should have confirmed by substantial arguments/ that which you have set down. The proud sorbonists/ and Magistri nostri of Paris/ did never usurp a more absolute authority/ and more out of rule then this is: And it is to bring in an intolerable Tyranny into the church of God/ and lordship not to be abidden. Which when I understand off all interpretations of men/ be they never so learned/ and sharp: much more off such wooden interpretations which the answerer thrust the upon us. But tell me Good Sir/ what difference is there between your first interpretation/ and your second? For though under the gospel, it be lawful (as your exposition suppose thee) for parents to kill their children which shall prophecey falsely: what leave you to the jews/ wherein they differ from the Christians? and tell me also/ how you differ herein/ from that which I set down: that Idolatry owghte to be punished with death under the gospel?  
But pardon me/ I think I see your difference/ which is/ that the jews must do it according to the law of Moses/ and the Christians according to the law of whom? why kept you back that? Surely though the Christians be bound to do it (as your interpretation saith) they are bound to do it by the law of Moses: for I know no other law of precepts/ but that.  
There is yet another difference/ which your words may give suspicion off: that is/ that the Christian parents should rather put them to death/ then be withdrawn by them: so that the jews have a simple commandment to put them to death/ but the Christians have it under condition/ if they can not otherwise keep still the true worship off God. But where/ and in what shop is this difference coined? Whose Image/ and superscription bear the it? the Doctors. What Paul's? no Whitgyftes. I know him not/ it is not good. For how shall they be sure they shall not be withdrawn by him: unless they procure him to be put to death? And although they were out of peril of being withdrawn: how are other provided for/ whom he may corrupt? And if it were possible that poison which he hath/ could not hurt any other: where is the revenge off Gods glory/ which hath been dishonoured by such false teaching/ and in the maintenance wheroff/ the zeal of the children of God/ aswell under the gospel as under the law/ doth consist? These differences between his interpretations he giveth incklinge off/ but the folly of them was so apparent/ that he durst not say them open.  
And althowge we have already to many interpretations by one: yet here cometh the third. And this is an allegory/ which expoundeth killing, confuting. Where first/ the answerer should have remembered/ that he condemned in the Admonition allygoryinge as Papistical/ (which in deed is not so much Papistical/ as anabaptistical) albeit they fetched their allegory/ from two famous men/ master Hoper and Master Alasco. Here it is Catholic in him/ that was there Papistical in them. then observe Good reader/ how he that challenged the Admo. For making the holy scripture a nose of wax, and me that I make it it a shipman's hose: hath here set up three interpretations off one/ and the same place. of which although never a one/ can stand with another: yet because he thinketh they all make for him/ he stickethe not even to strike himself/ to give a prick unto the truth.  
And as for master Luther/ I answer with Jerome: which (albeit he did not so well practise it himself) yet in one place of the smaller Prophets (that cometh not now to my mind) saith/ that to seek for an alligorie, where a Plain and literal sense may be had: is to seek a knot in a rish. seeing therefore the scripture meaneth here as it speaketh/ and calleth a spade a spade/ and a fig a fig: to expound killing confuttinge, and corporal weapons spiritual/ and heretics heresies: is by Master Luther's Good leave/ out off season.  
furthermore if Master Luther should by confuting off their herysies/ shut out the corporal punishment of death: he hath the Answ. interpretation (which he calleth them true meaning of the place) for enemy. So that either master Luther's meaning was/ that they should not only put them to death/ but also confute their heresies: or else it serveth as well to overthrow that/ which the answerer hath set down/ as that which we maintain.  
But observe here I beseech you/ the shameful practice off the Answ. If Master calvin/ or Master Gualther upon these places/ had had any thing for him/ that should have been set down: if they had had nothing against him/ he would (as h● hath done in divers places) have used that nothing/ as a prejudice unto the truth: now he perceived they were directly against him/ he is fled to Master Luther/ to borrow this sentence of him. What though I had alleged the authority of Master Caluin/ Master Beza/ Master Martyr/ Master Gualther/ and divers others/ for the confirmation of this sentence/ that heretics ought to be put to death now/ as well as false Prophets under the law: what if I had brought master Caluins/ and master Gualters interpretation of this place of Zacharie/ expounding it as I have done (whereof also one of them/ calleth those fanticall spirits/ which contrary this doctrine) What place should Master Luther's allegory have had/ against such an host off learned men/ coming so strongly with substantial arguments/ fetched from the simple meaning of the scriptures? Yet all men of any reading know that this might easily have been done: if I would have sought to prejudice your part/ by the authority of men  
I concluded only off that place of Zacharie (against your fond distinction) that the same severity off punishment/ that was used against false Prophets then: owghte to be used now under the gospel/ against false teachers/ comparing one parson/ and circomstance with another. As he that hath fallen away from God/ and gone about to draw others away: to be handled according to the law prescribed in that chap. 13. of Deut. if this be bloody, and extreme: I am content to be so counted/ with the holy ghost: and then shall not you smell off Manichisme/ but be a flat Manichean. And although in other cases of Idolatry/ upon repentance life is given/ as in the examples of the Lenytes/ falling away from the truth/ in the general revolt off the people: yet in this case off willing sliding back 
In the next treatise. / and moving others to the same: and other some cases/ which are expressed in the law/ as off open/ and horrible blasphemy of the name of God: I deny that upon repentance/ theridamas owghte to follow any pardon of death/ which the judicial law doth require.  
And where you say/ that there is no example, from the nativity of Christ unto this hour: first you greatly forget/ how evil you entreat them which reason negatively of authority: and how you cry out upon them/ which (as you say) of a thing not done, conclude it ought not be done. And this reason is yet worse: for it would conclude/ that no Idolater repentante/ should be put to death/ because there was none so handled/ within a certain space. Then you may understand/ that the princes which have maintained the gospel all this while you speak off/ by whom these executions should have been done/ have been both few in number/ and off small endurance of time. And yet although Constantyne the Emperor were to mild a prince/ and did as Eusebius witnesseth/ much harm in the church 
4. lib. of the life of Const. 1. lib. 9 cap.  with his clemency: yet he made a law as Socrates signifieth/ that as many as were found to have any writing of Arius should die for it. if that were put in execution/ as is to be thought: the example thereof cometh nothing behind in severity/ that which is here defended.  
thirdly they did not lack/ Good/ and faithful admonitours to use this severity. For one writing unto the two brethren Emperors/ Constance/ and Constantins/ showeth that they ought 
julius firmicus Mater●us.  to punish Idolatry with all severity: and alleging this law in 13. Deutr. and another off the destruction of a whole city/ which shall be partaker of such sliding away/ saith/ that they are commandments unto the Emperors. I have read also in some story/ off Aluredus a King of England which made a law/ that whatsoever he were that went from Christianity to Paganism/ should tender his life for it. and not only the new testamète/ but the old also/ is the store house where out we take our arguments/ to prove the truth/ and to impugn the contrary. Therefore it is an evil argument/ to say/ it can not be showed out of the new Testament, therefore it is not true: when as a man may rather reason/ that forsomuch as it can not be showed out of the old testament/ therefore it is not true. Considering that there is no doctrine in the new Testament/ which is not contained in the old: and there is somewhat in the old Testament/ which is not to be found in the new. And yet forsomuch as I have showed/ even out off the new Testament/ that he that killethe a man/ and taketh away his corporal life ought to die: it followeth much more/ that he which taketh a way the life of the soul/ should die. And if it be meet to maintain the life of man/ by the punishment of death: how should the honour of God/ which is more precious than all men's lives/ be with smaller punishment established?  
Therefore to close up this question/ I will add this: That the magistrates which punish murder/ and rheftes/ and treasons/ with other transgressions of the second table severely/ and are loose in punishing the breaches of the first table/ begin at the wrong end: and do all one with those/ which to dry up many rivers fed continually by one fountain/ begin at the channels where it divideth/ and partethe it self into many arms: which as it is an endless labour/ so is this also that they Go about. For when as S. Paul teacheth/ that God for just revenge off the dishonour off his name/ and staining off his glory/ 
1. Rom.  give the men into wicked minds/ to the committing of all kind of sins/ contained in the second table/ be they never so horrible/ and so maketh the breach of the first table/ cause off the breach of the second: it can not be (let the magistrate late as Good watch as he can/ both multiply/ and aggravate his punishments as much as he can) I say it can not be/ but where either the first table is broken/ or the breach not duly revenged swarms off treasons/ thefts/ murders/ adulteries/ perjuries/ and such like/ must needs break out in those governments. And therefore as the short/ and easy way to dry up the channels/ and rivers is to stop the head/ and fountain of all: so the only remedy of purging the common wealth of these pestilences/ is to bend the force off sharp and severe punishments/ especially against Idolaters/ blasphemers/ contemners of true Religion/ and off the service of God And therefore I conclude/ that those which would have the severity of the law against Idolaters abated/ do at unawares/ not only thereby utter the small price which they set/ either off Gods glory or of the salvation of their brethren: but withal declare themselves enemies to common wealths/ and off all both civil/ and Godly honesty of life.  
Your conscience Master W. and the conscience of all men bear witness/ that both here/ and almost every where/ you wring my words clean contrary to my meaning: and therein I am well content the judgement remain with the reader. And although I am fully persuaded/ that there was no occasion taken off evil by this doctrine: yet if any wear/ it being the doctrine of the holy Ghost/ whoso ever hath taken occasion of evil/ hath without repentance borne his punishment: and so shall you most assuredly in that day/ wherein the mouth of wickedness shall be stopped.  
It may not be passed by/ that he in the begining of the first of these sections/ matched the laws of the jews/ which were the laws given by God himself/ with the laws of the most barbarous/ and Profane Tyrant that ever was: such is the reverece he beareth to the laws of God. Note also that where I say/ that I will join with him, that the transgressions of the law under the gospel, are to be severelyer punished, than they were under the law: He in pretending/ and making a brag that he would join/ slyppethe me clean a side/ and saith/ that he will join with me that the magistrate is not bound to the judicial law of Moses, for the manner off punishing: as though that were any thing like/ that which I propounded. And in that he answereth no one word/ to the two reasons which I alleged/ that is to say/ for that both the knowledge of the law is greater now than than, and other gifts of the spirit of God, whereby the law should be better kept, more abundantly powered out now then then: he doth not only slip a side/ but turneth his blind parts towards me.  
Now to return back/ to the Divis. pag. 123. I leave to the judgement of the reader/ how importunate an adversary the D. is: which requireth answer of that/ which hath been so often answered. In the next Divis. p. 124. seeking to maintain his logic in dividing/ and defining/ he maketh himself pitiful/ to all that ever saluted that school. For what an absurd saying is it/ that because the definition of a general thing, agreeth unto his particular: therefore it is the definition of the particular? As though every thing/ which were verified of an other/ were by and by the definition of it: or as though the same could be the definition/ of the general and of the special. And what a miserable defence of his division is it/ which to prove that his three last parts/ are not contained under the first: allegeth/ that they are not all one with the first? But as I promised/ I will leave this to the learned reader: that I lose not the time/ in confuting off these trifles. The rest off his section is answered before.  
In the next/ beside the sentence which I deny/ and he untruly fathereth off Zuing. that in Ceremonies, things are to be used in the church, which are not contained in the scriptures▪ There is nothing/ which maketh any thing unto the question. For where he saith/ that I mislike that of Zuing. (If they be not repugnant to the word) I have told him before/ that I never found fault with that/ but becawse he condemned the Ad. which will have them cast in the mould off the word off God. And as for Master Bezaes' sentence repeated here/ off discipline left in the order off the church, and that some things done off the Apostles, are not always to be followed of us: whereby it seemed the D. would make the reader believe/ that he meaneth this/ off the points of discipline now debated: if I should herein charge him with untrue dealing/ upon Master Bezaes' book off Epist. Which declareth in so many 
Epist. 11. 14. 20. 83.  places/ and words/ that there is a Discipline of God left unto his church unchangeable/ and precisely determined in the word of God: and how he maketh the parts thereof/ the same which the D. fighteth against with might/ and main: he would peradventure say/ that he could take no notice off that/ which was not yet brought to light. But when the same book from whence he drew these outorities/ mainteneth those parts off discipline touching the eldership/ the consent off the church in Ecclesiastical elections/ the right institution of Deacons/ etc. as necessary/ which he will have arbitrary: he ought to have understanded/ that those things which M. Beza noteth/ under the name of Discipline left at the order off the church, are nothing less than these/ which he would insinuate. Which he might yet easilier have understanded/ by the place which he allegeth out off the Corinth's/ that leaveth it not in the church's power/ either who shall govern/ or what they aught to do which must govern: but how that government which is prescribed/ may be used most decently/ in regard off circumstance of time/ etc. For even in that place/ the Apostle defining off certain points of discipline/ (as that women aught not to speak in the church, etc.) declared sufficiently/ that he meant not to leave the government of the church/ in her own disposition/ and order. But what M. Beza meant by this arbitrary Discipline/ it shall yet better appear in the next tractate/ off the Election of the church: where this here spoken generally/ shall there belayed open by example. the rest of this Divis. is answered.  
In the next Divis. I leave it to the judgement of the reader 
pag. 130. / whether I have truly gathered off his words. As for the defence he maketh to prove/ Truly and Purely all one (for so he must/ if he maintain his answer) the first reason he bringeth/ (that a man may preach true things, and not truly) is clean overthrown by his own answ. for to overthrow (that which he falsely attributeth unto the Adm.) that the word is not truly preached, because the Ministers are not duly called: he saith/ that the reason is not Good/ because ho we wicked soever the man be which preacheth, yet he may preach the true word of God. Here either the Ans. must make to preach true things/ and to preach truly all one: or else he hath not answered to the argument he supposeth the Adm. to use. The other is/ for that S. Paul useth these words in truth, for sincerely. Wherein beside the former fault (which is the contrariety with him self) he should have learned/ that that manner of speech/ is taken off the hebrews: which as they call a lie/ not only that which is spoken/ but that which is done/ or imagined against the truth: so likewise contrary. Which manner of speech not being received in our tongue/ is fond/ and out off time pretended: considering also/ that the translations in our tongue (as in others) have shunned that phrase/ as that which they could not reach unto.    

Tract. 2. and 3. according to the D. Offa election of the minister.  
Cap. 1. Divis. 1. of the Trial of ministers in learning and conversation.  
THe reply standeth upon the certain/ and unfallible ground 
Pag. 133.  of the word of God: which is/ that the church ought not to put forward any to the holy Ministry/ without good trial of his sufficienty. Then it is upholden/ off the words of the text/ that two were set up/ and caused to stand before the congregation. For after that saint Peter had declared/ what manner of man he ought to be/ which 
Act. 1. 23.  should fill up the void place of judas: immediately S. Luke showeth/ that two were put up/ as if he should say/ consider whether these he such/ or no/ as aught to chosen/ and which agreed with that which is required of him/ that must supply this place. The reason whereof was/ for that all the men which where in the church at that time: were not capable of that function/ having by no likelihood been with our saviour Christ continually/ from the begininge off his preaching/ until the day of his ascension.  
And unless that S. Peter ment to subject those unto the trial of the church/ which were to be chosen: why instructed he the church/ and gave a rule to sever/ and try them by? After the church agreed/ either by voice/ or by silence/ that they were such as behoved: S. Peter went forward/ and conceived a prayer as followeth there in the text. And that this is the plain/ and natural order off that action: he that hath but one eye/ may easily see. The scripture is short/ and in a few words comprehendeth many things: and touching certain points off a story/ leaveth other to be gathered off the diligent reader: sometimes which was done before/ by expressing that which was done after: other sometimes that which is done after/ by expressing that which was done before. Whereof (if need were) it is not hard/ to show divers examples: And thereof is that sentence so often used off the Hebrew Doctors/ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Scripture stayeth it self upon, or presumeth an understanding reader: without the which it shall seem very unsufficient/ that is most perfect/ and without the which/ a great portion of the word of God/ is lost.  
And where as you say/ that it is certain that there was no trial, because they were sufficiently known: first/ it appeareth not by any words in the text/ that they were sufficiently known. And considering that (as it cometh commonly to pass/ in a persecuted church) there were by all likelihood some/ lately come to the church they might be well unknown to them/ although they were well known to others. Then the question is not/ whether they were examined or no: but wether they were set up to be tried: so that though there were a proferr off trial/ although no trial followed: the place is aptly alleged. For albeit they were known to the whole company/ so that there needed no inquiry into their behaviour/ or other things which are in the compass off the church/ to judge of: yet that is no cause/ why they should not be offered to the examination. Neither is it reason/ that the known habylytie of some one/ or two: should break an ordinary law/ in the church off God. And you that have served yourself/ more than once/ or twice/ without cause (as shall appear) of the manner of civil elections/ to overthrow the Ecclesiastical: might here by the consideration of them/ have been delivered/ from this abusing off your self/ and others. You know in the election off follows/ and scholars/ where the law commandeth an examination before the election although the parties to be chosen be never so sufficient/ and there sufficienty never so well known/ to all to whom the choice belongeth: yet the offer of themselves to be examined/ is so necessary/ that if that be not: they can by no means be chosen. If therefore man's law/ in such small elections/ hath such force/ that it will give place to no man's excellency/ or singularity: how much more ought the law of God/ which biddeth generally without exception/ that they should be tried which are promoted to the ministry, in so great/ and weighty an election/ 
1. Tim. ●. ver. 10.  to keep her force?  
Where you say/ there was no other cause of presenting them, then that which is expressed in the text: tell me what cause is expressed/ off presenting them in the congregation? surely none that I read. those two which I alleged in my reply/ are gathered/ but none is expressed. So that if there were no other cause/ off there presenting/ then that which is expressed: there should be none at all/ and that action of the Apostles/ should be to no purpose. What express words are there in the text, contrary to this trial, or at the jest offer off trial? the words should have been noted/ the meaning should have been beaten out: where we need your help/ there you forsake us. where the meaning is clear/ and without controversy/ there you trouble yourself/ and us both.  
If it be a rule to be followed it must be followed wholly, saith the answer. This is very definitively/ and magistrally said: and being a dangerous error (as that which tendeth to the overthrow of the chiefest heads of Christian religion) is notwithstanding farced/ with scoffing questions in derision of the truth. I never learned, nor I do not use/ to add, or take away from the word of God: I expound the scripture/ and gather off it/ which is not to add: and in saying/ that something is not to be followed of us, I take nothing away: for I confess it to be so as the story reporteh. And although that part be no example to follow: yet even now/ and to the end/ it conteinethe a profitable doctrine. But if I take away from the scripture/ because I say/ that some part of that action is not to be followed: you do much more/ that say/ nothing thereof is to be followed. I distinguish beweenne that which was for a time/ and that which is perpetual: and to distinguish/ is not to dismember. All the revelations I have/ are out of the revealed word of God: I know that this part of this action, touching the examination/ is to be followed, because it is confirmed by other places off the scripture: tother not so/ for that it hath not/ the like confirmation. This spirit of slumber/ whearwithe the lord hath stricken you in that you say/ that if a rule be to be followed it is to be observed wholly: shall better appear when I come to your answer/ of that which is written in the 51. and 112. pages of my former book/ where this is handled.  
No doubt (saith he) this is an extraordinary example. As Archidamus 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Plut.  said to his son/ being to venterowse/ and boldhardy/ either put to more strength, or take away some of this courage: so I must admonish you/ that either you would come stronger with arguments/ or else go softlier/ to these doctoral determinations. Is it without all doubt, that all things are here extraordinary: nothing of necessity to be followed? For so you say/ when you will not have it followed in other part/ because some one is not to be followed. What is it not necessary/ to admonish those to whom the election of the ministers belongeth: to tell them what manner a one ought to be chosen? if that be not/ yet is not this necessary: to commend the election of the minister of the word/ to the prayers of those which are present at the election?  
And where as he saith/ that it being extraordinary, is not of necessity to be followed; he should have said/ that being extraordinary/ it ought not to be followed. Now when he granteth them to be such as may be used/ although not necessarily: he concludeth against himself/ that they are not extraordinary. for as those things which are ordinary in the word of God/ ought to be followed: so those things that are extraordinary are by no means of us/ without an extraordinary spirit/ to be followed: things which may be done/ or left undone/ be neither ordinary/ nor extraordinari/ but have a mean nature between both. But as it is in in proverb/ the eagle ketcheth no flies: Master D. hath greater matters in hand then these: and yet to keep the propriety of speech/ profiteth much/ to the keeping off the pureness of doctrine.  
But the words of master Caluine (saith he) are plain. So they are in deed/ plain to show your great untruth/ and plain to show that which I contend for: that is/ that although some things are not to be followed: yet other some things in this election/ are and ought to serve/ for the direction of the election of the ministers now. And because you shall not abuse the reader/ neither with the denial of things to be so/ which are manifest/ nor guileful escapes/ wherewith you go aboughte to defeat the authorities which I allege: although it be much against my will/ to lenghthen my book with translating so thick/ and three fold of other men's sentences into mine: yet being driven to it/ I had rather be somewhat troublesome to the reader: then that your unhonest practices should not appear/ to all that will not willingly close there eyes against the truth. But before I come to master Caluine/ I will set down Cyprians words which are there commended by master Caluin. Cyprian therefore (speaking off the election of a Minister) writeth amongst other things/ thus. God commandeth that the priest should be placed before the face off the whole congregation of the jews: that is to 
1. li. Epi. 4.  say, he doth teach, and show, that the ordeininges of the ministers, owghte not to be made, but with the knowledge of the people standing by: whereby they being present, either their faults should be discovered, or their virtues commended: and so it may be a just, and a lawful ordination, which is by the voices, and judgements of all examined. The which after ward according to the divine mastership, or authority, is observed in the Acts of the apostles: where Peter speaketh unto the people, of ordaining a bishop into judas place. of which place first it appeareth/ that the people not only had/ but ought to have to do/ in the appointing off there minister: and that not by any custom/ or decree off men/ but by the eternal word of God/ both in the old/ and new Testament. Also/ that their right consisteth/ both in examining the life of him which is to be chosen/ and in the approbation of him if they like off him/ or refusal though they like him not: which Cyprian proveth both by the 20. of the numbers/ by this place/ and the sixth of the acts/ which he also citeth.  
Now I come to master Caluin. After he hath in the 13. section/ showed that the election of the apostle into judas place/ is no certain rule for our elections: he showeth further whearin 
4 li. 3. ca  it is no rule: namely/ for that the election there was committed to lot/ the vocation of an apostle so requiring/ that by the judgement of the lot/ as it were by Gods own mowthe/ a successor might be appointed in steed of judas. But in the 14. section/ he showeth the lord so approveth off the judgement of men (which he after expoundeth the church) that even in the apostles appointment/ which have this prerogative that they should be created immediately from God/ the judgement of the church should not be passed by: and to that endecitethe the 13. of the acts and 2. verse/ and this place off the first of the acts and 23. verse/ and off those places gathereth a perpetual document/ to establish the discipline/ and order off the church in elections/ for ever. whereby appeareth/ that master Caluins' mind/ is not (as the doctor would make us believe) that there can nothing be gathered out off this place/ pertaining to our elections.  
Afterwards/ confuting them which upon the places of Timothy 
3. cap. 15. s. / and Titus/ go about to prove that the election of the ministers/ is in the bishops power, he saith thus/ Well therefore said CyPrian, while he contendeth that it cometh off the authority of god, that the minister should be chosen the people being present, in the eyes off all: and should be by the common judgement, and testimony approved worthy, and fit. And forth with reciting Cyprians words (before alleged) and quoting this place off the Acts/ he concludeth in this sort: we have therefore (saith he) that this is the lawful vocation by the word of God: where those which are chosen, are appointed by the consent and approbation of the people. Here again it is manifest/ that Master calvin useth this place off the Acts/ to prove that the election ought not to be without the approbation/ and consent off the people. Furthermore/ speaking against 
4. li. 5. c. 2. s.  the popish election/ for that in it all is in the pleasure off the bishop. He citeth Leo and Cyprian/ which prove that by the word of God/ the church ought to have her interest/ in the election of the minister: and many Synods/ which do severely prohibit such elections/ and if they be made/ command that they should be off none effect. Then concludeth/ if these things be trwe, there is this day in popery no canonical election, neither by Gods, nor by any ecclesiastical law. And if there were nothing else, how can they excuse themselves, that they have spoiled the church of her right? And so goeth forth/ with confuting off the same reasons off the Papists/ which are afterwards alleged off the doctor. This may be sufficient/ to let the reader understand/ how the Ans. would shamefully abuse him/ with the authority off M. Caluin. Wherein I do not forget/ that in going about to prove that this place off the Acts hath place in divers points in the ordinary election/ I have together with those places/ belonging to the examination/ pressed also those which touch the election it self. Which I did purposely that I might not be compelled/ to set down these places again a little after: Where it being alleged for the election/ which is here alleged for the examination/ receiveth the same answer off the S. which this doth.  
Unto my reason in the second Division/ that if an examination 
pag. 133.  be necessary for a deacon it is much more necessary for the minister, (against that he said/ that the fixed off the Acts, could not serve to prove any thing, touching the ministers election, because it was off deacons) he answereth not/ but passeth by quietly/ and maketh no words. But his other saying/ that there is no mention made off any trial, he holdeth still for good/ asking me what one word of trial is there? I answer/ that albeit there be not this word try, yet there is that which weigheth as much: for the greake word look 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  out, can not be severed from a trial. And if S. Luke had but used the simple verb/ which in our tongue signifieth consider/ yet that off it self had force to have lead the choosers to a trial/ off them which were to be chosen: now using the compound/ thereby he laid upon them/ a greater necessity/ and a more careful diligence of trial of them. Where if the apostles had not ment hereby/ to have called the church to a diligent search/ and trial of those which were to be chosen: they would have contented themselves to have said/ take from amongst you, etc. And although the whole church had knowledge of those which were the fittest to be chosen to that office (which is both unlike/ and almost impossible/ seeing there were certain thousands off late added unto the church): yet even those which are well known unto us/ when they be to be chosen unto such great charges/ are to be inquired into a fresh. For that knowledge of a man/ which is sufficient for us to live with him in private society/ and common course of life/ is not enough to promote him to such a dignity in the church: and that experience off one/ upon confidence whereof we durst trust him with our weightiest affairs/ is not sufficient thereupon to commit unto him the lords matters. So that considering the weight of an ecclesiastical office/ the manifold crevices off man's dissimulation/ with the dullness of our sight to espy them: there can be no fear off too much trial/ even off those which we think we know already. And therefore although the whole church/ had knowledge of those which were apt for that office: yet the apostles admonition/ off diligent considering whom they chose (which could not be without trial) was not out of time.  
Again that the apostles give in charge unto the church/ that they should choose such as had testimony off there good behaviour: pertaineth to the examination/ for the church in seeking testimony off there good conversation/ tried them what they where. And unless this be trial: touching the conversation of him which is to be chosen minister/ in the church of England there is no trial at all: considering that the trial which is had/ is by the testimony off certain. So I conclude that this place off the acts/ making for the examination of the Deacon: is much more strong/ for the examination of the minister. To the next section I answer not.  
Divis. 4. What is in the beginning of the book/ because you 
pag. 135.  set it not down/ and I have not the book to see: I will leave to every one to consider. Howbeit the words which I allege out of it/ where (speaking to the Archedeacons') he saith/ Take heed 
Pa. 25.  that the persons whom you present unto us be apre and meers etc. declare that the bishop passeth his election/ upon the only examination of his archdeacon. But it maketh no great matter how many examine/ seeing the election/ and ordination hangeth only upon the bishops pleasure. And he partly seeing/ that all the matter standeth in the courteousie of the Bishop: and partly (as it seemeth) willing/ that that gowlfe should swallow up/ all other men's interrestes in this election: setteth himself to prove it.  
And where as I alleged/ that it is not safe in so weighty a matter, to commit that to the power of one, which may be with less danger done by many: he goeth about to prove/ that the bishop is off all other fittest for that matter. Wherein observe/ that the D. is quite gone from the cause. For the question is not/ whether he be off others most fit: but whether it be fit that he alone should do it. So that if he will have it a reason against the cause/ this it is: The bishop is more able than any one/ to make a good examination/ therefore more able to make it then a great sort: more able to make it then any one/ therefore more able to make it alone/ then when he hath other joined with him. Which is all one/ as if he should have said: The right hand is more apt to do things then the left/ therefore it is better they be done by it alone/ then with the help off the left. I do not here take exception/ against the long experience in these things, which he saith the bishop hath: yet he cannot have it at his first ordering of ministers: and others might have it as well as he/ if the examination were as well permitted unto them/ as unto him. I meddle not also with the bishops either sound learning, or ruled affections: which what they be in some/ is well known/ what they may be (considering that they be not tied to the rochet) it is easy to be considered: Let him be as well experienced/ learned/ affected/ as such a bishop may be: yet hath he won nothing by all this/ but that the bishop ought not to be shoot out/ in this examination.  
Where he saith/ Surely if any one man, or more be void of such affefections, and thought meet to have such matters committed unto him, it is the Bishop: it had been good he had assured that Surely: with some reason: otherwise it must (as it is) be holden for an unshamefast begging/ of that which is denied. And off the same sort is that which followeth/ that if he be worthy the office of a bishop, he may safely be credited, with all things incident unto the same: for this is that which lieth between us: whether it be incident to the office of a bishop to have th'only examination of those, which are chosen to the ministery. Which if I could give you: I would/ to be rid off these importunate askinges.  
Y● followeth not/ because civil matters which touch the commodity of this life/ may be committed to one: therefore ecclesiastical also/ which concern the life to come/ may be so hazarded. Nay for so much as man's insight into civil affairs/ and judgement in them/ is sharper than in matters pertaining to the church: it is clear/ that there ye more help required in these/ then in the other. Besides that/ when as princes by taking counsels unto them in their weighty affairs of the whole realm/ and for better deciding off private men's causes/ appoint whole be●ches off justices/ standing off five/ or six: they do sufficiently declare thereby/ how they have the judgement off one (be he never so wise) greatly in suspicion of error.  
It is sufficient that the prover be off more eyes seeing better than one, be true for the most part/ which is the nature of a proverb: And in making off laws/ the law giver respecteth what is for the most part expediente/ and not that which may be good some times. For otherwise it might be said/ the bishop should not meddle with the election/ but his chaplain: because it may happen/ that he is more able to meddle in that matter/ then the bishop: It is no small outrage you do the church of God/ to account of it/ as of an ignorant multitude. For unless you mean the church/ when you say/ then a thousand other which be ignorant: you speak beside the matter/ seeing we do not permit either examination/ or election of the ministers to every multitude/ and blind assembly: but unto those only/ which make an open/ and clear profession of the truth. Therefore yowre glorious/ and great speeches always of the bishops/ are affectioned/ and aspire somewhether. For if they preceded off the fear of God: it can not be/ but that fear of God/ and spirit of humility/ which taught you to speak so of them: would have spoken much more reverently off the church/ whose servants they ought to be. And when you say/ or that in such matters be far inferior to him: if you mean ten thousand of those which be off the church: the voice is strange/ and needed some reasons to acquaint us with it: especially seeing it toucheth (as you think) the cause. But you wander still/ and the prover be you confute not. For let it be/ that the bishop seethe more than 10000 of the church (which proportion being more unequal/ then that between the son/ and the moan/ carrieth with it a sent off the popish insolency) admit I say that the bishops eye be so good: yet if the church have any eye at all/ that being joined with his/ will see better than his alone. And that is the meaning of the proverb/ not to compare one good eye with many bad: but to show/ that that which alone i● able to do somewhat/ with company/ and help is able to do it better. And therefore whiles you will have your bishop so full of sight/ that he can leave no thing unseen: and to have received the spirit without measure/ which is only proper unto our saviour Christ: you have yet browghte nothing/ to show why he ought not to have the assistance of others/ in the examination of the minister. S. Paul refusethe not to learn of the 
Rom. 1. 12  church of God/ in those things wherein he went as far beionde the bishop, as any bishop can go beionde the simplest of his diocese. Apollo's was instructed/ and tawghte of a power handicrafts 
Act. 18. 26. Socrat. 1. 8 Sozom 1. 18.  man/ and his wife. In the counsel of Nice/ a simple man/ and one that knew nothing but jesus christ/ both overturned/ and turned a Philosopher/ whom all the 318. bishops/ could not move. both S. Paul/ and Apollo's/ and the 318. bishops/ were off Singular knowledge in those things/ wherein they were aided/ and desired to be aided/ off those which were a great deal inferior unto them. What honey have our bishops eaten off/ that they can see so clearly/ into the fitness of a minister: that the church of God/ can not both see that which they see/ and that also which they have overseen? Belike it is/ because our bishops are more sharper of Sight/ then ever any were: and our churches more ignorant than any have been before. And if the churches were taught of them (wherein they are for the most part/ smalliest beholding unto them): as the plentiful knowledge of the church/ should have been a seal of their abundance: so what soever is said off the ignorance/ argueth now the want of their knowledge/ and in the end returneth to the weight of their condemnation. Which if it were well considered of him: it seemeth/ that for the controversy he hath over the estate of a Lord bishop, he would have spoken more reverently off the church.  
Whereas you say that offices of greatest charge are only in the Prince's choice: Still you confute your shadow: for I speak off those elections wherein divers have interest/ sainge that it seldom cometh to pass, that upon one man's report off his ability which is to be chosen: all the rest which have interest in that election, will give their voices. What word is here/ which giveth occasion to speak off the prince's elections/ which are made by herself alone? you have therefore picked a quarrel/ to speak off the welbestowing of offices/ unless it should be some profit unto your self/ which you imagined might come by sprinkling off these fair words: I see no end of it. sure I am/ it is no answer unto that/ which it pretendeth. For my part/ I will not contrary that you speak/ of the good bestowing off the offices by the prince: And I am well assured/ that some of them be bestowed/ of most worthy men. But it is good for princes/ to have as it were ears of horn/ against such sweet songs as these be: and notwithstanding them/ to stir up themselves to greater wareness in the bestowing off their offices.  
Therefore to let pass the offices of charge in the common wealth: for the Ecclesiastical charges/ which her majesty bestoweth/ although they be off the greatest port: yet they will appear/ not off the greatest charge. unless you mean charge actively/ that is to say great charge/ and unprofitable burden unto the church/ not bearing the church/ but borne of it/ even almost to the breaking off her back. And those also (as I think) are not chosen off the prince alone, but named only/ and chosen off the canons of that sea/ whereof he is to be appointed bishop/ and confirmed off the Archbishop. But let it be here observed/ that Master D. seemeth by affirmation of this thing (although falsely) without saying any thing against it/ to gïue the election of the bishop only unto the Prince: which if he may do in the bishops/ which he taketh head ministers: much more may he do it/ in the other ecclesiastical orders/ which he accounteth under the bishop. here first I would know/ wether he will stand to this/ or no: or whether having nothing to answer/ he used this for a shift. Then whether the bishops will take in good part/ this translation of the church right into the hands of the civil magistrate: and whether for there temporalties/ as it were for a mess of rise pottage/ they will suffer the church's inheritance to be thus riotowsly alienated: to be offered where it is not asked/ to be given where it is not received. And if they be content to part from this if need be/ that they may keep tother: or be content that master D. forrewarde off his proctorshipp/ should have the disposing of it at his pleasure: then I shall have something more to say in this behalf.  
The election of ministers/ committed to the bishops alone/ is made off custom/ that is twice a year at the lest/ if any come: at the entreaty of some in authority of ten-times: and not upon any need off the church. For when almost/ is the request of such as be in authority/ refused in that election? In deed there is no extreme suit/ the door is not so hard locked: there needeth but the lifting up of the latch. And it is also I grant without contention, For how can the bishop contend with himself? Unless he and his conscience sometimes fall out/ which contention is to be wished/ that it were greater. And set me all the borowghes/ and cities together in the whole realm/ where elections pass by voice: you shall find/ they can not all afford/ so many unworthy officers: as have swarmed ministers/ from the sole election of the most part of the bishops in England. If your affirmations be so clear/ that you dare comitte them so barely without proof/ to the judgement of men: I dare with better reason/ let these go: which are done before the son/ in the conscience of all men: which the brwte beasts themselves would witness/ if they could speak.  
If he be condemned off the apostle/ which judgeth off one 
1. Cor. ●. 5  man's action before the time/ that is before he seeth what it i●▪ what great presumption is it/ thus to judge the church of God? And therefore that I be no partaker of your sin/ and plague/ which (without repentance ensueth): I answer that I think they will choose the meteste: that they will follow the lord/ before the lord of the town, if the lord of the town draw not with the Lord: that they will not do one of their neighbour's pleasure, to the dishonour off the lord/ and the hurt off all themselves/ and the whole congregation: that the peace of God/ not contention will be in the church of God: that they being the church of God/ and the mystical body of our saviour christ/ shall have an able/ and fit pastor/ if they have one like unto themselves: and so shallbe like people, like pastor. And if a whole church assembled together in the fear of God/ with invocation of his name/ be overcarried by affection of love/ or fear/ to chose him that is unmeet/ the bishop may much more/ being but one man/ subject to the same passions they be: unless you can happily show some prerogative/ to exempt him from the common infection. So for any thing yet alleged/ the light of reason/ rather favoureth the election of the minister by many/ then by one. Now let us see whether the holy scriptures/ whereupon we lay the weight of this election/ receive any better answer.  
To your answer to the ●. and sixth of the Acts/ you have my reply before. And where you add further to the first of the Acts/ that Master Beza saith/ that they were not presented by the multitude, but by the apostles only: I know not wherefore you should bring that in. For I say not that the multitude had the presentation: it appeareth manifestly/ that no one had the handling of that action/ which striketh the bishops sole election to the heart: it appeareth also/ that the judgement/ and consent of the church was required/ which is that we desire. Master Beza writeth thus/ Augustine with whom this whole chapter is read very 
Upon the 1. Act.  corruptly, interpreteth this word they set up, he set up, not without a dangerous error, for here was nothing done off Peter, by himself as one endued with greater dignity: but every thing is done publicly, and by voices of the whole church. Upon the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he saith thus/ The 
Ma. Beza upon the 14. of the acts.  strength of this word, which is to ordain by voices, is to be noted: that we may know that Paul, and Barnaba● did nothing by their own private pleasure, nor exerciced no tyranny in the church, as the romish Harlot doth now, and his assistants which they call ordinaries. And in other place upon the 
Upon the 5. of S. Pa. to Timo. ver. 22.  words/ lay not thy handy suddenly upon any, etc. That is (saith he) admit not all withowt choice to any Ecclesiastical function, as much as in the lieth. For all the authority was not in Timothy: but after the election made by voices of the whole church (as we have said of the election in the 14. of the Acts, and as appeareth by the election of Mathias, and the Deacons) he that governed the company in the name of the whole Eldershipe, did by the putting on off his hands, consecrated 
Upon the first unto Titus.  him that was chosen. And in an other place were the apostle willeth Titus/ that he should appoint elders town by town: he referreth the reader to his exposition of the place off the 5. to Timothy/ and the 14. of the Acts. And in the same chapter (out of the which master D. hath borrowed this place) he showeth/ that albeit all those things are not always to be followed/ which were done in the apostolical elections: notwithstanding that they had one unchangeable end. and ask what that was he answereth amongst other this/ that neither pastors, nor Deacons should be thrust upon the flock against the will thereof. And after in the same chapter he saith plainly: that it is tyranny, that the governors of the church, should be given unto the church, without the consent thereof: also that it belongeth to the Presbytery/ to choose the offices of the church/ when they be void. There are a number of more places to be found in him/ to this purpose/ that I may leave out hear it. epistle in his book of epist. (because I suppose it is in every man's hands) which is most clear for the deciding of this controversy.  
To come therefore to the examination of this dealing: first in that he saith/ that it had been a dangerous error, if S. Peter had done any thing of his own authority, without the assistance of other the apostles: in that he saith/ that Timothy had not, not only not the election of the ministers, but not the ordination in his power, but that which he did/ he did in the name off the rest of the eldership: and in that he saith/ it belongeth chiefly to the office of the elders, to choose the offices of the church, as oft as they be void: and addeth/ that he never found in any Christian church established, that kind of election which is in the power one: it is clear/ that he utterly condemnethe 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Imperium.  as altogether unwonted/ as usurped/ as tyrannical/ that election which is made by the bishop alone: and that this is one of the substantial points/ off a lawful Ecclesiastical election/ that it be done by the Eldership. Secondly/ in that he saith/ it was the unchangeable purpose of the apostles, to provide that the governors of the church, should not be thrust upon the church, against her will: that Paul, and Barnabas, to then-tente they would bring in no tyranny into the church, permitted the election of the elders unto the voices thereof: that they bring tyranny unto the church, which without the consent of the multitude, at their one pleasure, call any unto a public function in the church: it is most manifest/ that master Beza holdeth this/ for an other substantial point off a lawful Ecclesiastical election in a church established/ that it be made with the people's consent. So that it appeareth/ that the election made by the bishop alone/ receiveth off Master Beza two deadly wounds/ as it were in the heart/ and in the head: one/ for that it is not as well done by the authority of the Eldershipe/ as by the bishop/ or pastor: an other/ because it is not done by the consent off the church. Now what do we require/ in the election off Ecclesiastical officers/ which Master Beza doth not? we require/ that it be not permitted to one, he detestethe it as tyranny: we say/ that it ought to be done by the elder ship, and by consent, at the lest of the people, he saith/ the same.  
What are the things then/ used in the apostles elections/ that M. Beza saith may be altered: and whereof there is no certain rule prescribed/ which the church is always bound to follow? forsooth these things/ as may be easily gathered: that 
6. Act.  where sometimes the people upon particular occasions/ did first choose/ and the approbation of the governors did follow/ other some times/ and for the most part/ the governors went before/ and directed the judgements of the people: that in this circumstance/ 
Act. 1. Act. 14.  the church should be at her liberty/ to order/ and use which of these ways she should think most f●tte/ having regard to the times/ and other circumstances/ which might move to take either the one/ or the other. Again where the Grecians used in their elections/ the ceremony off holding up the hand/ to testify their liking of him that was chosen: other (as the Romans) going from one side unto an other (Whereof came/ pedibus ire in sententiam): others by silence/ did approve that which was propounded: that in these/ and such like the church might use that ceremony/ which is both received in that place/ and lest subject to slanderous speech. And that which the Answ. hath brought here/ doth especially belong unto this: and is given off M. Beza where he showeth/ that the manner of the Asians was/ to testify there consent by lifting up of hands.  
But off what things so ever in the election/ that rule is given: It can by no means take away the election from the Eldershipe of every church/ nor the people's consent/ to put all in the bishops hand: seeing that (as hath been showed) he maketh these two substantial points/ off a lawful ecclesiastical election. And if the Answ. will accord us those: we shall soon agreed for the rest. Upon all this matter I leave to the reader to esteem/ how either uncircunspectly/ or unfaithfully/ M. S. hath not borrowed/ but taken away whether Master Beza will/ or no/ his sentences to overthrow that/ which he so often times/ and in so vehement words/ so plainly doth establish.  
Now for your questions you pray me to answer/ although they come so often/ that you may aptelier be called the Questioner, than the Answerer, and that I need not by any order of disputation/ be driven to speak to such flying demands: yet I am content/ to let you use this advantage off venting them after this sort/ which you can not put in any form of argument/ and which being a little straight girt/ shrink a way/ or ever they come to be examined. But I must pray you also that where your questions be no weightier/ you will be content that I answer them as shortly/ as you propownde them: Albeit I have in effect/ answered them already in this section. I say therefore/ 
Answ. to his first question. 1. Act. 13. Act. 14. Act. Act. 6. 3. & 5.  that where the Apostles in the first of the Acts/ good before the rest of the church/ and direct them: that is the most convenient way/ for ordinary elections: as that which was both most used in the Apostolical elections/ and which is borne up by apparante reason: which is/ that they should show the way to others/ which are likest to know it best. And whereas the people present first/ and then the apostles approve after: for as much as that roose of a particular occasion/ which was/ for that the apostles dealing was somewhat suspected/ as not altogether indifferent/ but to much bending to the poor of their one nation: if the like case should fall/ the like remedy may be used. beside that/ that election of the Deacons might be more safely committed unto the people/ then that off the pastors: the people being more able/ to judge off their ability in disposing off the money/ then off the knowledge required for the preaching off the word. 
To his second.  The casting off the lots/ for so much as it was to this end/ that the election of an Apostle should be immediately from God/ and not by any man's voice: that consideration ceasing/ the lot also in ecclesiastical elections (howsoever it seemeth otherwise to some) ought to die. In the sixth of the Acts the imposition of hands/ being used in all elections by the church/ and having a profitable 
To the third.  advertisement/ that he which is ordained/ is set a part from the rest/ for the service off the church/ and that from thence forth/ he must not serve himself/ and his/ but the church: and containing also an assurance of the lords hand/ and help always ready in assisting of him: must needs be holden still for ordinary/ to be used in all elections. The prayer be fore the lot in the 1. of the Acts/ being expressedly used in all elections: And being 
To the fourth.  now by so much more necessary than it was then/ as the ability is less now in the choosers/ then it was then: must needs be thought a pattern/ to frame hour elections by.  
And where you say/ there was no such thing as prayer in the 〈◊〉 of the Acts: it is a token you have little truth in you/ which will deny that which is expressed manifestly in the text. for although S. Luke doth not declare/ what were the words they used: 
u 6. To his fift.  yet there being prayer made for them there was such a thing. That in the 1. Act. two were presented for one office/ that was/ that way might be made to the divine election by lot: that one only was taken/ was because there was but one place void. That in the sixth of the acres 7. were presented/ was/ because the church was thowght to have need off so many/ for the provision off their poor: that all were ordained/ was for that the apostles liked well of them all. Be there yet any more behind? I looked when you should say/ that in the first of the acts there was a bout six score/ in the sixth almost six thousand: there but eleven Apostles/ here twelve: there speaking with one tongue/ here with many. For the matters in controversy/ that is to say/ whether the people's consent is to be had/ etc. These differences would have served you/ as well as those: and possibly if they had taken you in the head/ you would never have let them go/ without giving some tribute to the lengthening off your book. But in all this diversity you reckon up/ there is a perpetual harmony against the election made by one bishop: against the ambition of the elder which thrusteth out his fellow elders: against the church robbers/ especially which bend their force/ to spoil the people of their consent/ in election of their ministers. If you had showed any diversity in this: you might have helped your cause somewhat.  
To those which are blear eide/ one light seemeth two: and there 
Cap. 1. Diuis. 5. pag. 136.  fore to M. D. which hath the eye sight off his mind scattered/ they seem to differ which agreed well together. I well remembered what I wrote, and it hath not the weight of a feether/ to overturn the election of the minister by the people. For it followeth not because one deacon is inferior to the pastor: therefore the whole church is inferior/ to either the pastor/ or the deacon: or the deacon may not choose the pastor/ therefore the whole church may not choose him. But this had been well concluded: one deacon is inferior to the pastor/ therefore much more one of the people: and one decon can not choose a pastor/ therefore much less one of the people. Which might have been easily considered/ by proportion off the body/ which S. Paul doth so often point out the estate 
1. Cor. 12. Rom. 12.  of the church by. For set a part the head/ which is our saviour Christ: and there is no one part so noble/ or so necessary/ but being compared together with all the parts off the body that are under it: it giveth place/ and is inferior unto them.  
And it may be showed by example/ that they that in a society be equal/ yea superior unto any one in that society/ are notwithstanding inferior to the whole. Peter/ and john were equal/ unto any two/ in the whole college of the apostles: and yet they were inferior to the whole company of the apostles. For being sent 
Act. 8.  of them/ they must be inferior to those that sent them: and being Ambassadors from them/ they received commandment. 
A &. 13.  Paul/ and Barnabas were by their dignity of Apostleship/ superior to any which were in the church of Antioch: and inferior to the whole church/ for the cause before alleged. Furthermore/ we do not permit the choice of the pastor to the people only/ but to the choice of the eldership: so that although the people alone/ should not be superior unto the pastor/ yet all together are/ which have to do in that election.  
And although these things are so plain/ that they could not lightly be hidden from him/ that hath but moved his lypp to the cup of sound divinity: yet master D. standeth still amazed/ marveling as he that having stepped many years'/ when he awaked/ thowghte all things strange. These are the known laws of the house where you were borne/ where also you undertake profession of Do. it is a great fault that you are a stranger at home. The people's examination of their ministers especially/ standeth in their behaviour: And seeing in the church of God/ from him that cleaveth would/ to her which grindethe in the mill/ there is none so ignorant/ but know/ and can give reason off principal points off the Christian religion: the Elders (which be the flower of the church) can much less be so ignorant as you make them. Naashe 
1. Sam. 11.  the Amonyte/ meaning to dishonour the people of God/ thowghte it reproach enough to the Gilcades/ if he might have put out their right eyes/ and (although a barbarous/ and cruel enemy of the people of God) yet would have satisfied himself with that; but you are not content with that/ unless you put out both their eyes/ and leave them as blind/ and ignorant buzzards. These reproaches of ignorance/ so oftentimes cast upon the people of God/ are not spoken with the tongue of Canaan/ but is the proper dialect off the Papists/ and it is reproachful not unto men/ but unto the son of God/ whose body the church is/ and whereof he is the head.  
The prophet speaking off churches which should be gathered 
Esa. 11. 10  under the gospel/ saith/ that the earth shall be full of the knowledge of God/ as the waters which cover the sea: the accomplishment whereof may appear in all places/ where there is any teaching minister/ which doth the office of a faithful pastor. I could a great deal easilier/ bear the reproaches which you utter against me: but when I hear you thus rail upon the lords host/ so indefinitely speaking of the churches of God/ you are untolerable. yet if I should speak against this/ as often as you give occasion: I should never have done. And if neither you will cease this language/ nor those that should look unto it/ will stoup this incircumcised mouth: I will commit the cause unto the lord/ and wait for his judgement.  
of the means of an exact examination of the ability of the pastor/ with out the help off the lord bishop/ is spoken in an other place: where shall be examined/ what the D. hath to say. It hath appeared how untrue it is that the Deacon is superior/ or hath more gifts than the rest of the body of the church. And besides that it shall appear in place/ a most absurd saying/ that the deacon is above that elder which I mean (for I mean the same/ which S. Paul meaneth) there was no occasion at all here to speak/ off the superiority of a deacon unto a signior. For either he ought to prove a deacon/ above a pastor: or else he hath said nothing/ to that which is in question.  
In the 308 page the Bishop is avowed to be a Pastor, here he is Superior to a Pastor, and therefore no Pastor: for there can be no comparison/ but between two things at the lest: and it is very strange/ that a man should be higher than himself. So that to defend these bishops/ and Archebishops'/ the Ans. hath need have a new grammar/ and a new logic: for they transcend/ and go beionde all the rules/ that ever yet were heard of. I know what is used with us, but is that a sufficient answer? is this your defence of the book? I prove him to be deacon/ and you can not deny it: thereupon I conclude/ that he is inferior to the pastor, and you say/ I know an archdeacon with us, may be minister off the word. But the Question is not what he is/ but what he may be by the word of God: for you ought to have showed/ that a man may have the order of pastor and deacon at once. For if he be but a deacon/ and no pastor: then being inferior to the Pastor/ he ought not by himself alone/ judge of the sufficiency of a Pastor. if he be both a Deacon/ and a pastor/ at once: then in stead of ministers/ you bring monsters into the church/ and make off the hand and the eye/ which are two members/ but one. Unless you will say/ that he that is promoted from one Ecclesiastical degree unto another: keepeth the same still which he had before he was promoted. by which reason/ the bishop/ and the Archbishop are deacons also: because they sometimes had that degree. And then it is required of them/ that they do the offices of all those functions/ the names whereof they bear: for there are no idle/ and void names in the church/ which can be severed from doing the duties/ that those titles require. And it is as if a man passing from one office/ or dignity in the common wealth/ unto an other/ until he come to the highest: being in that office/ or dignity/ should be said still to have all the under offices/ and dignities by the which he hath passed. And not that only/ but when a man from private estate/ is called either to office in church/ or common wealth: together with the public parson/ which he hath gotten/ he keepeth his private estate still.  
It hath been sometimes (I grant) that either through ignorance of the institution of God/ or through ambition of some/ which desire to have all in their own hands/ or upon some extreme necessity/ the pastor hath done that which belongeth to the office of a deacon/ and contrariwise. But although I should grant/ that one might be ordained to be both Pastor/ and Deacon (which is as monstrous in Theology/ as it is in nature/ that one/ and the same should be half a man/ and half a woman) yet you help not yourself that way. For in saying that he may be a minister of the word, you confess that he may be also none/ but a deacon only: whereof also there are examples i● in our church. Last of all/ those Archedeacons' which have the degree of a pastor in our church/ do not examine by that they are Pastors/ but only in respect that they be Archedeacons'. And so whether he be pastor/ or deacon together/ or deacon only: the disorder remaineth still/ that the inferior/ and he whose calling is contented with smaller gifts/ is made judge off his sufficiency which is superior/ and whose calling requireth greater gifts. Whether the archdeacon have the examination committed untho him only: I refer me unto the book off ordering ministers/ and to that which I have before alleged. Here I would have the reader mark/ that this disorder/ of ordeininge ministers/ at the testimony of an archdeacon/ came from Rome: as Jerome 
Jerome ad evag. Ca 1. Diuis. 6. pa. 137.  both notethe/ and confuteth.  
This reason is altogether different from the second. For although he were by never so many/ and never so well examined: yet were it unlawful for the Bishop/ to admit him/ as this third reason doth suppose/ that is to say/ upon the credit of the archdeacon, without his own knowledge. which I do not gather off the words of the Archedeacons' presentation (as you would make me) but of the answer of the bishop/ Take heed that the persons whom you present unto us, be apt, and meet for their godly conversation, to exercise their ministeri duly, to the honour of God, and edifying off the church. which words whether they have that sense/ which I allege: I leave to all men to judge off. the form off the universities presentation, helpeth you not: because there is no such answer made by them again unto the presenter/ upon which I ground my argument. and it maketh much against you. For I doubt not/ but that form of presentation/ by some one of that faculty/ whereof the presented person is/ was therefore brought in: because neither all the university/ to whom he is presented/ nor the vicechauncelor/ off whom he is to be admitted/ can always take knowledge of his sufficiency/ for the degree he asketh. As the vicechancellor being a lawyer/ neither he/ nor diverse other of the university/ off themselves are able to judge/ whether he be meet to practise in physic: but are driven to stay upon the faith of the presenter, so that you likening herein the Archedeacons' presentation to the universities: do thereby confirm/ that bishop's admittance is oftentimes suspended/ off the trust of the archdeacon. I would you had that reverence of the holy scriptures/ that you pretend often: we should then pass this controversic easily. But for the place whereof it is 
1. Tim. 3.  said I make a shipman's hose: it shall be seen/ how truly you have spoken. For the declaration whereof/ I take the 10. verse off that chap. For when S. Paul saith/ let them first be tried, and then minister: it is as much as he should say/ that he should not apply them to the ministry/ before they were tried. Whereupon I conclude/ that if that place command Timothe/ that he should not apply any to the ministery/ before trial: the same implieth/ that he should try them. for so much as any other man's trial without his own/ is no trial whereupon he might proceed/ to the applying of them to the ministry: especially considering that otherwise/ he should offend against that which he forbiddeth in another 
1. Tim. 5. 22.  place/ off sudden laying on of hands. And if it be said/ that it is to be understanded of the deacons: the answer is that though he command that off the deacons election/ much more he requireth it in the Bishops. And whereas he saith/ I am still contrary to myself: I ask him wherein? In that forsooth I thereby conclude/ that the bishop should be the examiner. where did I ever deny it? But if he think any thing grow unto the lord bishops/ or that therefore the bishop alone may examine and ordain/ because I grant that he hath interest in booth he hath overcast/ the sum is not so great. To show that the same ought to be the examiner's/ that are the choosers/ it is sufficient to have showed it in one: the law being the same in all/ which is in one. That it can not be restrained unto Timothy alone/ which S. Paul commandeth him to do: and that he was no bishop/ but an Evangelist: shallbe handled hereafter. You that charge me with contrariety/ where there is no colour: must be here this second time admonished off of this fault/ in this short section. for in affirming not once/ nor twice/ that those things which touch the election is that epistle, are spoken unto Timothe alone: you affirm that plainly/ which you deny unto me/ that is/ that S. Paul maketh the same the ordeiners/ and examiners.  
Solomon saith/ that all the words of the mouth of god are plain to him that will understand, and straight to them 
Diuis. 7. pa. 138. 8. prou. 8.  that would find knowledge: Wherefore I marvel not/ if the answer (because be would so feign have a broad way/ where he may drive a sumpter horse/ and is nor content with the lords path way) find many difficulties/ and stops. But alas what pains he taketh in lifting at a feather. And of the three difficulties that are here moved/ two of them (which are touching trial of him by sermon, or otherwise, and the fear lest he should be an hypocrite) fall as well into the bishops choice/ and examination as the people's.  
Therefore the answer is/ that that means which the Bishop may use/ before he is Minister for his trial: that also may the church. And as the hypocrisy/ which uttereth not itself/ before 
1. Tim. 5. 24.  judgement given off taking him to the ministry/ steineth not the circumspection of the Bishop: no more can it blemis he the trial/ off the church.  
There remaineth only/ whether to take knowledge of him/ he should come devil with the parish, and how long, and at whose charges, and whether before the death of the former pastor, or after. If I should say/ that the journey he taketh to the bishop/ he should bestow in going to the parish/ and be amongst them/ what would follow? then he must be there a great while/ or ever they can have trial of him/ and thereby grow charges. As who should say/ the whole church can not take as good notice of him/ as the bishop being but one: or as though the bishop can take better knowledge of his conversation in one hour/ then the whole church can do in one week. If therefore the church/ for trial of his conversation/ have need to keep him at her charges a quarter off a year: the bishop hath need/ to keep every one that he will admit/ in his house a whole year. Which if he should do/ I doubt not but we should have an easy disputation. And if the Bishop may proceed to election/ upon the testimony of others: why may not the church do thè same? That which was in old time touching colleges of learning in every city: might be now much more if the bishops palaces/ and the Canon's cloisters/ which serve now to nourish a sort off idle serving/ and singing men/ were turned into colleges/ and nurseries off painful students.  
Where you say/ but admit all these impossibilities: Not admit nothing: hold all that you have/ for all is to little. Whatsoever pertaineth to this cause/ we are (God be praised) able to get it at the sword point/ I mean off the word off God. you take me up (for if and and) In all my whole book where have I so many/ as you have in diverse pages? But what are these doubtful doubts? In your first if (which is if the parish be wholly or the most part ignorant) for parish/ you should have put church/ that is to say/ the number off those which do profess the gospel of Christ. For as in the time of persecution/ when there is no Christian magistrates/ the church severeth those/ which being off the paris he/ be none of the church: so when there is a Christian magistrate/ he ought to provide/ that those which are not off the church/ thrust not in themselves into such affairs/ as (because they are none of the church) they have nothing to do with. Other wise in that point/ the church should be in worse case under a Christian magistrate/ then without him: Which were absurd. So your first question is answered/ that the church of God is not ignorant/ nor unable to judge off the soundness of Docrine.  
To the second if which is of corruption of religion: I say/ that if/ the corruption be such/ as destreiethe the foundations/ as in the Arrians (which overthrow the person of Christ) as in the Papists (which overthrow the office of Christ): they being no church/ ought to have no privilege off the church. If the corruption touch not the heart/ and bowels of Religion/ but as a scab/ feedeth off the outward parts/ to the deforming only of the body thereof/ as the churches of the jews in times past/ which thowght the ceremonial law of meats/ and drinks/ and days not taken away: and as some of the churches both jews/ and Gentiles/ which thowght it lawful to have many wives at once: these and such life/ because they take not away the title of the church/ they can not bar them from their interest they have in choice off there minister●/ and if they choose such a one/ as is no● fit: the magistrate is to hinder such elections/ and to drive them to an other. whereunto what you answer/ shallbe considered when I come to that place.  
And where you ask what if they agreed not amongst themselves? Even the same that is done in other elections: that the election be esteemed off the most voices. And I beseech you/ what is here that may not be said off all other elections of offices in the common wealth/ which pass by the voices of many? So that in going about/ to drive the church from this election: you infer a necessary change/ off the whole state of the common wealth. And except the last off these questions/ which is touching contention amongst the people (which is a great deal more tolerable/ then when one bishop without resistance/ sendeth forth such vermin amongst the people as we have to great experience off) there is never a one/ but may fall into the election made by a bishop. For what if he be unlearned/ as divers bishops be in Ireland? What if they be corrupt in religion/ as some in England? What if a gift blind their eyes/ that they can be content to wink/ at the manifest faults of him which is to be admitted? What if they be overruled off some noble man/ of whom they stand in fear/ or from whom they look for some pleasure? You will say/ all these be beside the book: so are all these which you reckon up/ beside all laws of elections that ever were made/ either civil/ or ecclesiastical. And it is a very unequal/ and (as of one that feareth the insufficiency of his cause) altogether a cowardly match/ thus to compare the lest disordered (for orderly I can never call them) elections/ which the bishop maketh: with the least orderly/ and most troublesome elections of the people.  
And if a man should judge/ off the most fittest manner of choosing off ministers/ by the event: I am well assured/ that all the Ecclesiastical stories extant/ are not able to furnish us/ of so many unworthy ministers/ chosen by all the churches throwgheowt the world/ which have been since the Apostles times: as have swarmed these few years/ out of the palaces/ as out of the Trojan horse: off that small number of Bishops/ which are in England. Of the other side/ if a man will cast his eyes into France/ both in persecution/ and in peace/ and from thence look into the churches of some parts of Savoie/ and yet stretch them ow● farther/ to certain comen wealths in Germany/ and come home to our neiggbours the Scots: and compare generally the ministers chosen off the churches/ with the most part of those which the bishops make: (if he love not himself to much/ and be not a stubborn defender off that he hath undertaken) he shallbe compelled to confess/ as much difference between the one/ and the other: as between gold/ and copper/ or any other refuse metal. And yet their is nothing/ which the Ans. doth suppose may come to pass here/ which may not happen to them all a part/ and to the greatest part of them/ altogether. And therefore for any thing yet alleged/ the bishop's election is further off then before/ and the equity of the churches consent/ in choosing off Ecclesiastical officers/ more apparent.  
For the Westmerlande Minister: I do/ not here appoint any certain parlicular rule/ although I doubt not/ there are many wates/ which the churches upon the persente occasion/ shallbe able to take: but it is answered before in general/ that what way soever the bishop may take/ for his knowledge: the same may the church. You tell me often/ that it is no matter what I think off this, or that: and I desire not/ that any man should weigh what I say/ further than it hath weight of the word off God. Which rule if it be kept/ in the examination of yours also/ as I doubt not it wilt we shall not need to fear any great pray you shall carry away at this meeting.  
I have showed in part/ and more also will appear/ how the reformed churches agreed with us. And I am assured/ that he can not bring one example of any other church which professeth the gospel/ where the elections of the ministers/ depend upon the pleasure of one.  
Where he saith/ none is admitted of the bishop/ which hath 
Diu. 8 p. 1ST.  not dwelled a convenient time in his dioses: The scholars of Cambridge go indifferently for orders (as they call them) either to Elie/ or Bugden/ or Peterborowghe/ and sometime to London: and I am sure they can no have dwelled in all their dioses. Therefore either there is no such law/ or it is evil kept. And what will you do with the Archebishopp: may he not ordain in his province? so that if you think the diocese so narrow a place/ as all those that devil in it may take sufficient trial of him that is to be ordained: yet you answer nothing for the largeness of the province. To whom is that singular person borne out of time/ and in a dark corner of the bishop's chapel before the rest/ to whom (I say) is his ability so sufficiently known? if to the Bishop so ought all the rest: to others of the diocese/ how can he? And where doth the book prescribe any such rule/ that for some such singular person/ there may be such a dark election? so that for any thing that I know/ it is still at the bishop's pleasure. Sure I am there have been in that sort admitted/ which for any singularity that gave them any commendation to the ministery/ might have well been in the tail/ with a number of the rest.  
And the end off notifying the day of orders (which you say is especially/ that there may be resort thither/ of such as have any thing to object against any/ that is at that time to be admitted into the ministery) is (as I think) but a shift/ to serve this turn. the confutation whereof may be fetched/ from the bishops bull/ which being set up upon the church door/ as by the sound of a trumpet to gather an army (whereof the greatest part off of them/ after the bishop's hand is laid upon their heads/ have power to invade the church of God at all occasions) propoundeth this as the chief end/ that if any be disposed to receive orders/ he should repair to the bishop at such time/ and place. For it maketh no mention as I remember/ of any such end/ or at the lest/ that that is the principal end. And if that be so (which I will not precisely affirm/ but refer it to the reader/ which may have more assured knowledge than I can have off it) than the untruth of this saying/ doth notably appear. for if it had been the principal cause off the setting up thereof/ it aught so to have been propounded: at the least/ not to have been left out.  
But whether it be/ or no: it is manifest mockery of the people of God/ and if it should be approved off the Bishops/ which is here alleged: I can not see/ how they could deliver themselves/ from that sore accusation/ off making merchandise of the people of God/ by coulorable and deceitful words. For to omit that the bishop/ was w●nt to go to every church which had a pastor or bishop/ to be ordained (as I am able to prove) and not all the churches to come unto him: and to let the inconvenience pass/ how the church's throughout the whole diocese can be lodged/ especially oftentimes in a little village/ where the Bishop giveth his orders: and to let pass that the bill which is set up upon the church door/ is in the latin tongue/ whereby they can make no preparation/ not understanding the sound off the trumpet: I say/ to let all these pass: what should the churches do there/ to have trial of the sufficiency of the ministers/ which have already an incumbent? for the Bishops do as well give orders/ when the places are full: as when they are not. And what should those which want do there? when they know not/ whether they shall have one of that creation/ or of some before: one made in that diocese/ or in an other.  
And if so be they were (which they can not be) sure that they should have one of them/ there being peradventure four/ or five which want: either they must inquire into the sufficiency off 40. 50. yea a hundredth sometimes (which is impossible): or else they may be deceived. For the Patron/ and the bishop are not tied neither will be/ unto these which they have made inquiry off: but will choose which they list of all that number/ which hath passed through the bishop's hands. And if there were no more made/ then they wanted: yet when they have not been conversant in that part of the diocese/ where the void/ and widow churches be: how can they stand up against those/ which they neversawe/ nor heard of before? Therefore if there had been any truth meant by this pretence: the Bishop should first have have known/ what they be which would enter the ministery/ and so give the churches which want/ warning to inquire by such a day/ of such/ and such as be suitors/ and wooers unto them. So that by these/ and many other considerations/ which I leave to every onhis estimation with himself: it appeareth/ what reverence he hath of the church/ which dare offer such a broken vizard/ to hide from their knowledge/ the disorder off the bishop's election.  
Where you say/ that he must off necessity be admitted into the ministery, before they can give any judgement of his ability in teaching etc. In deed I hear you speak sentences/ and looked for some arguments for the confirmation off that/ which condemneth the order off divers churches/ which for better trial of their ministers/ give them some piece of scripture to interpret. They have been moved with some reason: and will you cast it away with a word. But the order of trying his gift off expounding/ is good/ and for the most part necessary. For although it may be perceived by questioning shortly with him/ what his understanding is in the mystery of Christ: yet his utterance/ disposition/ and memory (gifts necessary for a minister) can not be tried/ but by such a proof or by long acquaintance with him: which can be seldom between the ordeiners/ and him that is to be ordained. And though in well ordered cities/ there is no man admitted to set up in any mystery/ unless he have offered to the Masters of the company/ some work for a masterpiece/ and declaration that he hath skill/ in that he will open his shop for: how much more in the ministery of God/ ought it to be provided/ that before he be allowed to work/ in the great mystery of our salvation/ and lay hand to the framing of the silver vessels of the church of God: the masters of the company especially (which are the Elders of the church) being best able to judge/ ought to have trial/ how he handleth the golden hammer off the word off God.  
But if M. D. which at other times loseth the cord off lawful vocation/ will here to pinch me with all/ gird it so straight: I answer/ that neither he which is to be admitted/ doth it without vocation/ being thereunto called by those which have to do in the election: neither do they admit him/ without warrant of the word of God. For the lord in comaunding to take a sufficient trial of his abitilie/ and that precisely before he be admitted: doth in that 
1. Tim.. 3. 2. 10.  commandment include/ all things that pertain thereto. For as when any peace of ground is given unto one/ there is also a way to come unto it/ granted withal/ although the same be not mentioned: so the lord in giving to his church/ power to try his ministers/ can not by any means bethowght/ to have hedged up the way/ which leadeth nearest unto that trial. And beside the reason heroff out of the word of God/ joined with the practice off diverse churches: We have plain examples in the scripture 
p. 4. ●●.  as I have showed in my former book. And how doth not the A. here condemn manifestly/ the exercise of common place used in the universities/ wherein young men (that they might he better prepared for the ministery) do interpret in there courses the scriptures/ which have no admittance or ordination unto the ministery? I will let you pass here/ with this contrariety with your self/ that you grant to every minister the rule off his flock/ which deni it so stoutly in other places/ where you give it to the Bishops/ and Archbishops. If you had found such a one in me: you would have made such hue and cry/ sufficient to have raised a whole country. But I will not press your contrarieties/ but where they be pregnant. And so I leave it to the judgement of the indifferent reader/ how well the answerer hath maintained the wants off the book/ which were by me in this behalf assigned.  
Their words are to be seen/ my reply/ and your answer: let the world judge what forehead there is in him/ which saith/ they 
Divis 9 pa. 140.  condemn all as evil, and as unlearned: jest I spend more words in proving/ that it is light at noon days. There is more likelehoode/ that for want of just trial/ they might be thowght to deny a lawful calling/ to those which are admitted by the common order. But it followeth not theroff/ that they say/ there are none lawfully admitted/ for the cause before alleged. And it is unreasonable/ you 
1. sect. 38. pa.  should charge them with that which I write/ or with that the second admonition writeth. Touching the number off sufficient ministers in France/ I wrote that which I received: weather it be true or no/ it may easily be known of those/ which will inquire of it.  
Take you good leave/ to speak all good of the university: it shallbe my recreation/ after your importunate barkings. it is my daily prayer it may go well with her/ and although I be from her. yet I carried some of her boweles with me: so that whether there be in her/ either just cause of joy/ or sorrow: I have them in common with her. I can take no exception unto your 450. university preachers/ not having the register of the university. but you did warily say/ known preachers, and not godly preachers: for some of those/ have troubled the university/ and other places with popish leaven of pargatorie/ free will/ and Abraham's bosom cut out by a larger measure/ then ever our saviour Christ taught. But to le● the corruption of some/ and the inability of other some/ with the so rare preaching of certain (that as at the appearing off a comet/ or blazing star/ or some other notable change in the heavens: so at their preaching/ there may be fear off some calamity to come) to let all those go/ to help to make up this garland of 450. you ought not have forgotten to subduct/ those which are taken away by death/ those which are thrust out of the ministery/ and muzzled by the bishops/ those which are mewed in cloisters/ those which beside the necessary use off the university/ remain/ there/ and those which having charges in the country/ lurk there. These being subducted/ except the accounts do rise better than you show: I fear me/ that I may cut of from the numbered of 2000 able ministers in the whole church of England/ which I assigned before: as many as you take from that number/ which I reported to be in France. And alas what are these five loves/ and 2. fishes to so many thousand churches. So that if you had not done it at unwares/ and had not had an other end/ then is false out: we should have had to thank you for this levy of ministers/ which the university hath bred/ as that which strengtheneth the fewnes off able ministers/ which I assigned.  
M. D. hand is still on his halfpenny/ and as Plautus Euclio/ he suspecteth every man for his treasure: and by putting his hand so often to the sore/ when he is not touched: he declareth plainly/ what is the grief. The fear of spoil off the church's goods, is not without cause: But there was no cause to suspect it in the Inns of court, which of their yearly exhibitions/ given to maintain there studies/ have erected up three divinity lectures: more for any thing I know/ then all the bishops have done. Therefore you evil requited this liberality/ with such suspicions. If the Centurion deserved praise/ for building a synagogue/ and is 
Luk. 7.  commended by the holy Ghost to all posterity/ for his liberality in providing a place for the preaching of the word: then they for there liberality/ in providing for the minister himself/ deserved a better gratulation than this. If they had thrown in somewhat into the Corban/ and bottomless bag/ it should have been counted to them for great liberality: But this aid which the church getteth by increase off godly/ and able Ministers/ receiveth little thank. But the hatred of this cause drove you headlong upon them: as your advertisements which follow do declare. As there are some among them that favour this cause: so there are some/ that like not of it. And yet seeing they have joined together/ yea (which is very strange) made great suit unto the Bishops/ that they might of there own charges provide such/ as in serving of them might discharge that/ which the bishop hath charged himself with: your suspicion off spoiling the church, might have had a fit lighting place/ then upon the Inns of court. Thus much against your disordered suspicion/ not altogether from my purpose: for it shall serve to show/ whereupon I conceived so good hope of them/ and of other the gentry of the realm/ which have in diverse places made the same contribution. If any have forsaken the ministery without just cause/ they are guilty of a horrible fault: but I see you account them forsakers of the ministery/ which you have thrust out: such is your equity to whip them out/ and for going out also. And if they hold any of your tenths/ and would be counseled by me/ they should yield them into your hands: lest in being partaker of your non residency/ they drink also of plagues which belong thereto. 
Diuis. 10. pag. 142.   
Where you say/ I have not answered: in deed if your one man be wise/ and godly/ and the hundredth fools/ and wicked: I have said nothing/ nor mean not now to do/ being worthier to be hissed out/ then to be answered. You say/ that the 16. Acts▪ showeth how well Timothy 
●er. 2.  was thowght off: a noble interpretation. This is always your fashion/ either to corrupt the places of the scripture: or else to tell that which no man dowbteth of. But for what cause doth S. Luke tell/ that he was so well thowght of? doth he not show in the next ver. to be the same which I have alleged? And therefore Master Beza regarding the meaning of S. Luke/ addeth the word (therefore) declaring for what cause that testimonial was given. This is your reason/ S. Luke showeth how well Timothy was thowght off: therefore it is untrue that S. Paul to cut of all occasion off evil speech, received him not, but upon commenmendation of the brethren both in Listra, and Iconium. I do not say that S. Paul would not have received him/ unless that every singular person had given testimony unto him/ which was in those places. but I showed how circunspecte S. Paul was/ in taking any into any part off the ministery: and how it is not to be thowght/ that he would have upon the Testimony off one/ proceeded unto any election/ seeing that in one which he himself was not ignorant what he was/ to avoid the evil speech of some/ he was careful to have the testimony of the church.  
As it can not be proved▪ that he would not have received him, if all had not consemed thereto: so may it easily be showed/ that if the most part had not liked of him/ he would not have taken him. For besides that it was against S. Paul's manner/ to do any thing of his own private authority in the church of God: it had not been advisedly done/ to have procured the testimony of the church/ for the admitting of him into his company/ if the church not consenting/ he would have taken him, for that would have bred a great flame of displeasure/ between the church/ and S. Paul: and should have been always shot in the mouth of the adversaries/ against the authority of Timothes ministery/ yea of Paul's also unto whom he was ioyined/ for that he had received one/ disaproved of the Christians themselves. All which he might (by your judgement) easily have avoided/ if either he would have rested in his own knowledge of him: or else have addressed himself to some one for his testimony/ and not to have hazarded the alienation of the church/ by comittinge the allowance of Tim. unto their testimonial.  
But mine argument is nothing worth, because it is drawn off an act off the Apostle. If this be true/ S. Luke was evil advised/ to in title his book the act. or deeds of the apostles. For it is as much in the ans. language/ as a book of deeds/ which christian men are not bound to follow. and yet it was not without cause/ that when there are contained in that book/ both the doctrine/ and deeds of the Apost. S. Lu. as off the greater part/ entitled his book/ the deeds or acts of the apostles. wherefore doth he in the beginning of that book/ repeating the sum of his gospel/ by that transition/ or passage 
Act. 1. ve. 12. 3.  make one body of them both/ and bind them as it were in one volume? was it not to give the same authority unto the one/ a● to the other: to show that the church had wanted so much/ of a perfect direction/ as it wanted of that story? Wherefore doth he in the beginning/ show that our Sau. Christ instructed them/ with the commandments thowchinge his kingdom? was it not to teach us/ that whatsoever they did in building of the church: they did it not of there own heads/ but by his authority? And if a commanndement unto them/ be not a commandment unto us: then have we no word in the Scripture/ to warrant baptism with. For the commandment of baptizing/ was spoken to the Apostles only/ without any further lymytation. Finally/ wherefore doth S. Luke set out the Apostles/ filled with the holy Ghost? Was 
Act. 2.  it only to give credit unto there doctrine/ that it should be beliued: and not unto there Acts/ that they should be followed? yes assuredly/ unto there acres/ that they should of every one/ according to his vocation (where they may) be followed.  
For the further confirmation whereof/ it is to be considered what S. Paul written unto Tymothe. Whom he instructing/ 
2 Epist. 3. 10. verse.  how he should behave himself/ towards the troublers of the church: doth not only call him to the regard off his doctrine/ but also his conduit/ or manner of doing. Whereby he meant to note/ his order/ and manner off doing in the church of God/ and publykly: for it could be smally otherwise to the purpose/ off that wherefore it is alleged. Sanct Paul's private doings/ could give Tymothy little instruction how he should behave himself/ towards the troublers of the Church. To the Phillippians also he calleth the bishops/ Deacons/ and whole 
4. Phil. 9  church/ both to doing off that which they heard/ and which they had seen in him. If therefore S. Paul/ will have the churches follow that which he did amongst them: it is manifest/ that the Acts of the Apostles/ are rules for us to follow. And unless this be admitted: I would gladly learn off M. D. Where in all the scripture he can prove/ the imposition of hands which I think he will not deny to be necessary. And this is that/ which M. Caluin doth flatly affirm/ that the example of the Apostles 
4. li. insti. ●. cap. 16. se●●.  in laying on of hands/ upon him which is to be ordained/ counterualleth terualleth a commandment/ and ought to be followed. And if where I have said/ the doings of the Apostles ought to be followed in the government of the churches/ he ask how: I answer/ that that they did in especial cases/ then is to followed/ when such cases fall: those which they did ordinarily/ and generally/ to be ordinarily/ and generally followed. Those things which they did in founding off churches/ and before they were established/ to be in life manner used: those which they did/ when the churches were established/ to be in the same manner ordered.  
And (to enter yet further into this matter) Where he saith/ that the argument is nothing worth, which is drawn of the fact of the Apostle: by the same reason he also condemneth/ arguments brought of the facts of our Saviour Christ/ and much more/ of all other holy men/ and Prophets. Whereof the scripture is full/ as when our Sau. Christ/ proveth that it was lawful in some case to break the corporal rest of the Sabothe/ by the example of David's 
Marc. 2. 26. 4. Luk. 25. 26. 27,  eating of the show bread. As when he excused himself/ that he did not work his miracles in Nazareth/ where he was nourished up/ rather then in Capernaum and other places: by the examples of Elias/ and Elizeus/ by which he taught that a man may attempt nothing without a vocation. all these arguments if M. D. had had the answering of them: he would as it seemeth/ have said unto our saviour Christ/ that they are nothing worth.  
I grant/ there be some acts of our Saviour Christ/ and other godly men in the scripture/ which being commendable in them/ would not be so in us: they having some either extraordinary spirit/ or commandment which we have not. of which sort/ Idowbte not but Master Zuinglius ment this sentence/ which you allege: As would have been easily seen/ if you had quoted the place. I think he hath been alleged/ and quoted above forty times before/ and never a sentence that maketh either hot/ or could to the matters in controversy/ or which might once provoke me to look whether they were so/ or no: this only place was somewhat material/ and here it is not quoted. But to come again to those extraordinary facts: I say/ that as the spoiling off the Egyptians by the Israelites at the commandment of God/ and the killing of Cosby/ and Zamry by Phinchas'/ through the inspiration of the spirit of God/ can not let us from teaching generally that theft is unlawful/ that the Magistrate only ought to punish public malefactors: so those few Acts which done of our Sau. Christ/ the Apostles/ and other godly men/ are not to be followed of us/: can not let us to teach generally/ that there Godly deeds which lie in us to do/ ought to be followed. And as I may reason notwithstanding those examples/ that he is a thief/ because he hath taken that which an other hath laboured for against his will/ and he is a murderer/ because he hath slain a malefactor/ being no magistrate for that purpose: so I may say he doth well/ for so our Sau. Christ did/ so did the patriarchs: and he doth evil/ for our Saviour Christ/ the Apostles/ the patriarchs did otherwise in that case. And he that shall deny this argument/ without shewing some special/ and manifest reason/ Wherefore it was lawful for the one to do that/ which was not for the other: he is unworthy to be a scholar in the divinity schools much less Doctor. If therefore the Ans. would have by any Good order/ put me from the possession of this place: he should have showed/ that S. Paul of some special occasion/ which falleth not into our ministery/ used this circumspection in taking such a cloud of witnesses/ for the assurance of Timothy's good behaviour: or that there is some general rule/ and commandment to the contrary. But that as he hath not done: so he can not do/ there being no one step/ of any such either particular cause/ or general rule/ either mentioned/ or to be gathered of that place/ or of any other scripture. It must therefore be esteemed that S. Paul did that/ of a general equity/ and common convenience/ which ought to be used in such grave/ and weighty matters of the church.  
Yea if M. D. Would have a little laid a side/ his inordinate desire of maintaining that which he hath once written. he should have found/ juster cause of this circumspection in our elections/ then in this. For if S. Paul an apostle/ endued with such a gift of discretion of spirits/ would not take Timothy/ which had been brought up from his cradle in the knowledge of the Scriptures/ and had lived in all commendation from his infancy/ Timothe I say/ whom he had now known (as it may be very probably showed) of some reasonable time/ into company of his ministry rye/ without such diligent circumspection: how much less may a Bishop/ in authority inferor unto him/ in gift of discerning spirits/ not to be compared. receive into the ministry/ upon the testimony off one only/ a man whom he hath not known before/ and whatsoever he be/ in knowledge of the word of God far behind/ Timothy? And it is not to be let pass (for further answer to that which is alleged out of Zuinglius/ Of a deed, or an example to make a la) that it hath been showed/ to have been the practice of all the Apostles at other times/ in there elections: and therefore this is not of one fact to make a rule/ but off the continuull practice of the Apostles.  
Moreover by defence of receiving at the testimony of one only/ what doth he else/ then make as easy an entrance into the highest place of the church of God: as a man off any calling/ and wisdom joined with it/ would make into one of the lest offices of his house? for surely if he have any regard unto the good order of his house/ and consider that the misbehaviour of his servant/ whom he will put in any trust/ reacheth unto the dishonour of himself/ and his whole household: he will never admit him whom he knoweth not/ without some one man's commendation/ off whom he is well assured.  
But the law of God in this behalf/ is most clear: which to the deciding of a weighty matter in dowbt/ requireth two witnesses/ and if it can be three: and namely where the judgement is of blood/ it expressly forbiddeth/ that judgement should pass upon 
Numbr. 35. Deut. 17.  the Testimony of one. But in the judgement of a minister/ where the question is of a great numbered/ of destruction of body/ and soul/ and that for ever: shall it being dowbtfull/ be given upon one man's testimony/ how sufficient so ever he be? Especially/ seeing that there ought to be greater trial/ and more plentiful witness in the church matters/ then in civil causes. which may appear further/ by that which S. Paul writeth unto Tymothie: Where he willeth/ that he should not receive an accusation against an elder/ but upon two/ or there witnesses. For wherein civil causes/ even off blood/ the judge may proceed unto the sentence of condemnation/ upon two or three witnesses: S. Paul will not have Tymothie/ not so much as to receive an accusation/ against an elder/ without 
1. Tim. ●.  so many. In civil causes a man may be driven to his purgation of blood/ and to his answer/ upon the accusation off one/ although he can not be so condemned/ without his own confession/ or other trial/ that falleth out after the accusation commenced: but the elder shall not be driven to answer upon one man's Testimony.  
There remaineth to answer that/ which is alleged off Paul's receiving into the company of the Apostles/ by testimony of one. which if I should answer as M. D. doth/ I would ask him how he proveth/ that which he saith is manifest: for it is not expressed there/ that they received him upon Barnabas report. If I had said so/ he would have charged me with arrogancy/ th●● I dare set down that/ which the holy ghost hath not revealed. For it is said he was received/ but that he was out of hand received, or at Barnabas report, it is not expressed. And if I would walk his way/ I could answer/ that it might be/ that they first inquired off the truth of those things/ which Barnabas testified/ before they received him. But I leave this answer/ to those which think there is no light in the world/ to discover such follies: and think/ that S. Luke's meaning was/ to show that he was received upon Barnabas witness.  
For answer therefore I say: first/ that he useth weight/ and weight/ measure and measure/ which being abominable before God/ in buying and selling such base things: it is seven fold more/ in this holy traffyke off the glorious word of God. For when we give M. D. for proof of trial in the ministers election/ that which was used in the Deacons/ which is like/ and comprehended under one head: he layeth in so heavy a weight/ whereby he would make us believe/ that the prose is to light/ saying/ that it is of the election of deacons, and maketh nothing for us. Now when he delivereth us a proof/ that an election may pass by one witness/ he putteth in a lighter weight/ for he bringeth in an example of S. Paul/ one not then to be chosen/ but already chosen: Which came not to receive any authority/ whereby he might be enabled/ to do that afterward which he could not do before: but to confer of that/ which he had done before: Which came not to submit himself to any trial/ but which had as good right to try/ as to be tried/ to inquire/ as to be inquired upon. And that I take a● advantage off this/ that it will be hard at any time to found a witness/ so without all exception as Barnabas/ which knew Saint Paul so well of whom he witnessed/ and was known so well unto the apostles/ to whom he commended him: I think there i● no glue so strong/ as can join these together/ A man which is dowbted off may be received to talk/ and confer with an other at testimony of one: therefore he may be received to the ministry/ of the like testimony. Again/ three Apostles may receive one to there conference/ upon one man's witness: therefore one bishop/ may receive one to teach others/ upon a single witness. Last of all (which is most absurd) three Apostles may at the witness off one man/ receive one that is dowbted off for a disciple/ or one off the church: therefore one Bishop may likewise receive one dowbted of/ to be a minister of the church. for it is clear by S. Luke which saith/ that S. Paul first assayed to join himself unto the church: that their consultation was not/ whether 
Act. 9 26  they should receive him as an Apostle: but they feared that he was a wolf/ and went about under the colour off professing the Religion of Christ/ to betray the whole church of jerusalem. So that if they had been persuaded of him/ as of a Christian: they would have admitted him into the church/ without the testimony of Barnabas.  
Touching the place of the kings 1. 12. 3●. The holy Ghost doth there/ lay to jerobohams' charge/ both that he made them 
Duis. 11. 12 pa. 143  off the basest of the people/ which was a great profanation of the Ministry: and that he took them not out of the tribe off Levy/ which was an other fault. For if he had taken off the wisest/ and honestest families of other tribes/ he would not have said that he took them of the basest of the people. And therefore that place was fitly alleged in that sense which I set down: and you that can see no other cause, why it should be quoted, unless it were to prove that the ministery should be tied to one degree, or calling: do yourself more injury/ then a modest adversary would. For the light off the place is such/ that it will suffer no man to be ignorant/ which hath but half an eye to see. And yet you blush not to require in your next section/ an other answer unto it. I could have repeated my answer as you have there twice hard together/ objected the same thing: but if I be not able to entertain my reader/ with that variety which I would: yet would I be loath to deceive him/ and make him believe/ that mutton roasted/ and roasted mutton be two several dishes. For let the reader judge/ whether there be any other difference/ between that which you confess my answer unto/ and that first section in the page following/ whereunto you require answer: and with those coleworts twice sodden/ you see I was content to let you go/ as I have done with a numbered off other your faults. To the rest I answer not.  
What is the necessity of judicials/ I have declared. touching 
Ca 2. Di. 2. pa. 144 Eze. 44.  the not entry of the incircumcised in heart, and flesh into the sanctuary of the lord, which the Ans. allegeth to prove/ that the law touching the rejecting off Idolatrous priests, is abolished: change the sanctuary into church/ which it be tokeneth/ and incircumcision into the want of baptism/ which was the same under the law/ which this is under the gospel: and then it is the moral/ and everlasting law of God/ that none which is heathenish in mind/ and withal professeth the same/ by the not receiving off the holy Sacrament of baptism/ should be admitted to the church off God. And if he say/ that it is not perpetual/ for that incircumcision of the flesh/ is now no fault: he ought to understand/ that the estate of the church in the gospel/ is shadowed out by those things/ which were used under the law: As when it is said/ there shallbe an altar built up unto the lord in the midst of Egypt, that their shallbe no Canamite in all the mountain 
Isa. 19 19 Zach. 14. ●●.  off God. And therefore as the removing off altars out of the church/ which then were in use/ and receiving in one of the nation of Canaan into the church/ which was then unlawful/ derogateth nothing from the stableness of these laws: so the admitting off one which is incircuncised in flesh/ doth nothing diminish the unchaungeablenes of that law/ which the Prophet there mentioneth. I am well content therefore that these two be matched/ and that they die/ and live together.  
The other place/ of entering in clothed with linen, compared with this: hath no colour of argument. For it doth not follow/ that because the ceremonial law is abrogated/ therefore the judicial is also. Are these your circumstances/ that declare the meaning off the place? let it be admitted that bohte these laws/ the one which goeth before/ the other which followeth after/ are abrogated: doth it follow therefore that this is also/ of rejecting idolatrous priests From the ministery? That which is alleged by the admonition/ is the 10. verse. of 44. chapter/ and although one of the places alleged by you/ be the verse next going before/ yet the second is the seventh verse/ after the place of the admonition. Now if it be sound reason which you allege/ all those laws in the Testament which are so placed/ that they have either a ceremonial/ oriudiciall law next going before them/ and another following within the compass off 7. verses: are either quite abrogated/ or else not perpetual. Which if it be true: far well Moses/ far well the Prophets/ far well the moral laws of God: they may all departed with the D. good leave/ nay for that they will not serve him/ he thrusteth them out. Before he picked them here/ and there: but this is an engine/ to overthrow them all at once. For I appeal to all your knowledges/ which have everreade the law/ if there be any one of the perpetual laws of God: which may not be found in some place off the law/ and Prophets so placed as this is: and against the which this exception which the D. doth so boldly avouch/ may not be made. I could I am well assured/ run through all the commandments/ and by this reason hurl them every one out of the church/ if it were not folly to labour in confuting of such frenzies as these are: and the thing also were not so plain/ as none of any reading in the old Testament/ can be ignorant. so that his pene is a penknife to cut a sunder all the scriptures.  
touching the interpretation of the words of the Apostle/ that the ministers being tied, should execute their functions, as long as they continued unblamable: I took the sense which was fit for my cause/ and neither against the scope of the Apostle/ nor any grammar construction. You say the greek is/ if in trial 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  they be found blameless. Because you tie me so fast unto the number of words/ where have you this translation? or in the greek words you allege/ what have you to bear these words (in trial? or show me why I may not/ aswell resolve the participle into the coniunctine mode/ by the conjunction (so long as) as by the conjunction (if): as long as I do it/ neither against the truth/ nor against the purpose off the Apostle. I grant that sense true/ but why may not this also be joined: seeing both the words/ and scope of the Apostle/ will bear both? you should therefore have showed/ that these words will not bear this sense/ and if you show me that/ yet can you not put me from hold of that place. For as much as it is most justly concluded/ that if the ministers must be blameless/ before they come to the ministery▪ they ought much more so to be/ in the execution of it: considering that falls in execution of the ministery/ are more dangerous to the church/ then those before.  
unless trial be made before admission/ and of things past: yet is it done in respect of the ministery that shall follow. Therefore it agreeth well with the trial/ That S. Paul should give warning/ that they should no longer be suffered to Minister: then they remain such/ as by trial they were supposed to be. And where you say/ that it is spoken in that place off deacons: it is much more of Bishops. And if a Deacon falling away from the truth/ ought to be put from the charge/ or honour which he had in the church: much more a bishop. But I nothing dowbt/ but that the apostle referred this sentence/ unto both a bishop/ and deacon. For having before spoken/ off them both apart: he doth here join them together/ in that which is common to them: ye● belonging rather to the bishop/ then to the deacon. And it is as much as if the Apostle should say: I have set before thine eyes/ what be the qualities/ both off the bishop/ and deacon: look now none be permitted to come unto these offices/ which have not been tried before. And that this is so/ it may appear/ for that the next verse/ which is touching the qualities of wives/ is not only a description/ what wives the deacons/ but what wives also the Bishops/ should have. Unless we will say/ that S. Paul travailed in describing off the deacons wives/ and left the bishops wives untouched: which how it soundeth in other men's ears/ I can not tell/ in mine it is absurd. Again if the 10. and 11. verses had been to be understanded off the Deacons trial/ Paul and their wives only: S. Paul would not have begun his 12. verse as he did/ by a repetition of the name off Deacons. For it had been enough to have said/ let them be the husbands of one wife: now when he saith (let the deacons, etc.) he declareth/ that he had discontinued his proper treatise of deacons/ which he resumeth again/ by that manner off expressing the name off a deacon.  
The sense which I have alleged/ soundeth no whit that way/ that the virtue of the word, etc. should depend off the good life of the minister. What likelihood is there between these/ a minister which hath fallen into idolatry, ought not to be received, although he repent, and be never so holy: and this/ that you surmise of me/ that the virtue of the word, etc. dependeth upon the holiness of the minister? Was the spirit of God anabaptistical/ which ordained this first? did he therefore forbid the Levites approach unto the table of the Lord/ be 'cause he would teach men/ that the virtue of the Sacraments, depended off the holiness of the ministers? did the churches which used and established this order/ the fathers which taught it/ thereby establish Anabaptistry? I did not take upon me to translate the place/ neither do I use for every place which I allege/ to go to the translations: I took (as I said) that which was for my purpose/ and which I thowght warranted/ both by the words/ and intent of the Apostle. And if I should consult/ and confer all translations: could you help me to a greek text that doth translate the new Testament. Either you be a great stranger in Grece: or you have travailed further into it/ then any man that I have heard off. I have heard off a greek paraphrase/ which is with some more words to bring light to the text/ as of the Scoliast: and off Metaphrase/ which is to change the proof into meter/ as Nonnus did S. john: but of a greek translation off the new Testament/ I never heard. But this was not off evil will/ and therefore I easily forgive it you.  
The rules which S. Paul giveth in that chapter/ are not only to teach that he that is endued with those qualities there 
1. Tim. 3.  described/ ought to be chosen to the ministery: but also teach/ that those which have them not/ should not be admitted: and if if they be/ should be deposed. And this you might easily have learned 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  by common reason/ which saith/ that there is the same knowledge of contraries.  
S. Peter'S, and S. Paul's admissions unto the Apostleshipp, was to be handled in the next section/ where I prevent these objections/ and give no occasion to speak of them here: yet they are plucked in before the time/ and barely affirmed/ without any confutation of the reasons/ which I allege. What confusion is this/ and how loathsome repetitions are these?  
I say that one that hath been an adulterer/ should not be received into the ministery: I prove it/ for that S. Paul will not admit one to the ministery/ that hath had two wives at once. And that it ought to be extended/ not only to the time of his choice/ but also to the rest off his life: I prove by that which is said/ of the choice of the widow/ where S. Paul maketh this one 
1. Tim. 5.  condition/ that she should be such a one/ as hath had but one husband at once/ and which had not been married unto another/ after an insufficient divorce. For that that is the meaning off the Apostle (unless Master Caluinfolowed an other sense) is very plentifully/ and substantially showed by M. Beza. Whereupon I concluded/ if S. Paul would not admit her to the lowest office in the church/ which at any time had two husbands: much less his meaning was/ to admit to the cheiffest office in the church/ one which at any time had had two wives at once. This the Answerer/ as though he had never feene or hard off it/ passeth by: for what answereth he? Forsooth that he dowbteth not. but the whoremonger if he repent, etc. may be admitted unto the ministery. And if I should have answered/ I doubt not the contrary: What then? what answereth he further? that S. Paul's mind is not, to seclude him that had two wives, or hath been a whoremonger, etc. I have denied it/ and have showed the reason off the contrary: he hath answered nothing. For where he afterward speaketh of the widow/ which be denieth can be said, to have led all her life in good works: he answereth not to that/ wherein the point off the reason lieth/ which is/ that she ought not to be admitted, which hath had more husbands at once▪ than one: if that be granted unto me: it is sufficient for the purpose/ I alleged that place for.  
Neither was it enough for you to pass by my reason/ but you must most shamefully move suspicion unto the reader/ off my favouring off the popish bigamy. What likelihood is there between whoredom/ or having two wives at once: with having two wines one after the death of an other/ or marrying a widow/ which the Papists call bigamy? if you have no fear of God before your eyes: is there no reverence off men?  
The first of your reasons/ to prove that a known adulterer may be received into the ministery: is that S. Paul by forbidding to receive unto the ministery, one which had been a whoremonger, or which had two wives at once should deal otherwise with them, than he was dealt with all himself. I gave the reason off this in the section following/ that our Sau. Christ (having the law in his own hand/ and making no law to himself/ but for us) might do that which is not lawful for the church to do: which reason being neither answered here/ nor else where/ ought to have stayed you from this answer. I gave this weapon/ but I turned the edge of it/ and made it flat: it was not therefore to war with all/ unless you had set a new edge.  
This solution/ that it is not lawful for the church, nor for all the churches in there elections, to do that which was lawful for our Saviour Christ: if it do not plainly enough appear/ in the examples of these two Apostles/ it may be seen in the election of them all. For it is not lawful for any Apostle/ or for all the Apostles/ or for all the churches joined together/ to appoint any to the ministry/ which is not fit for the ministry/ at the time when he is chosen unto it: But our Saviour Christ chose/ and appointed eleven Apostles/ to preach through out the whole 
Math. 28. 19  world/ when as they had but one only tongue/ off the country where they were borne/ the charge whereunto they were appointed/ requiring the knowledge of many tongues. And in this example of S. Paul's calling unto the ministry/ it is clear/ that our Sau. Christ dealt otherwise/ then S. Paul deaiethe with other. For he was called to the Apostleshipp/ as soon as ever he was called to the church? which he forbiddeth by express words/ 
1. Tim. 3. 6.  when he warneth/ that he be no new plant, that is to say/ lately come to the knowledge of the truth/ which is to be taken to the ministery. So that you see S. Paul dealethe otherwise with other ministers, than he was dealt withal himself.  
The next reason is/ that we read off none deposed from their ministery in the new testament, although they were found in many things guilty. is it not lawful for us/ to reason against the unlawfulness of a thing/ for that it is not in none of both the testaments/ neither directly/ not indirectly/ neither expressedly/ nor conteinedly: and shall you conclude negatively/ upon the examples only off the new Testament? The new Testament maketh mention off notable 
4. joh. 8. joh.  Harlot's/ and those also which were off the church/ and yet it maketh no mention that either they received any civil/ or ecclesiastical correction: therefore (by your reason) notable Harlots/ are not to be punished/ either with civil/ or ecclesiastical correction.  
But Christ knew judas to be a traitor, and yet he did not depose him: so he knew him to be a traitor/ when he chose him. Therefore if this be a good reason/ that a traitor to God and the gospel should not be deposed: it hath the same force to prove/ that a traitor may be chosen to the ministery. Moreover/ judas was admitted to the lords supper/ therefore if this reason will serve to prove/ that a traitor should not be deposed: it is good to prove/ that he may be also received to the lords table. judas treason was as yet hidden/ there were no witnesses of it/ and therefore by no law of God/ either civil/ or ecclesiastical/ could be proceeded against. For the law off God in all ecclesiastical/ and civil punishments/ requireth either confession by the party/ off the fault which is committed/ or else proof by witness.  
He proceedeth saying that the Scribes, and pharisees criminous etc. are commanded to be hard in the chair, etc. Good lord be merciful unto us/ whether will this man go? will he have traitors unto Christ/ sworn/ open/ and professed enemies unto the gospel/ to have charge in the church of God/ and not to be deposed? for whether can these examples tend else? our Saviour Christ commanded the people that they should be heard/ in that they said truly out of the law/ and that their faults should not hinder them/ to embrace that which they taught well. What is that to our question? this doth aptly prove/ that the virtue of the word/ doth not depend upon the worthiness of the minister: and thetherto it is referred. But to prove that they ought not have been deposed from their ministery/ there is not a word. But why did our Saviour Christ not depose them? And why did he will there doctrine agreeable to the law to be received? He deposed them not for that as he was the Minister of circumcision/ he could not: having not to do that ways/ but with those that would submit themselves to his doctrine. And if he should have given sentence off there deposition/ they would not have obeyed it: and he had not the sword to compel them. This therefore remained for him to do/ that when neither the people could shake off their yoke/ nor he displace them: that as he had often given warning/ off their false doctrine: so he should will them to take heed/ that neither the hatred off there evil life/ nor off their false doctrine drive them to mislike off that/ which was well taught. And if this be a good reason to prove/ that those that be criminous should not be deposed/ because our Saviour Christ willed the people to 
joh. 10. Matth. 7. Luk. 16. Luk. 10. 25.  hear, etc.: Then spiritual thieves/ and murderers/ corrupters off the law/ teacher's off justification by works/ ought not to be put out of the ministery. For those of whom our Saviour Christ spoke these things/ were such.  
And as for the wicked preachers in the church of Philippos: first you are greatly abused. For although he write unto the Philpiane/ yet these preachers he there speaketh off/ were in the church of Rome/ and not in the church of Philip. And then/ if I should ask you how you know/ that he did not will their ministery to be taken from them your own mouth condemneth you. For by your rule it is presumption/ to speak any thing that the holy ghost hath not expressed. And it is not only not expressed/ but it can not be gathered. For if you think/ that therefore he willed them not to be deposed/ because he was glad/ that Christ was preached by them: you deceive yourself. For he saith if he were offered up and should die 
2 cap. phil. 17. 18.  for confirmation of his ministery: yet he would rejoice in it, and requireth the whole church to rejoice with him for it. Would not therefore S. Paul have escaped the tyrants hand/ if he might lawfuly? or ought not the church of Philippos'/ to have forbidden the putting to death of the apostle/ if they could have done it? So that you see/ a man may rejoice at the fruit of an action/ that an other doth: which if it lay in him to let/ he ought not suffer to be done. For when as of evil doing/ may come good/ as we ought to be sorry at the evil which is done: so it is lawful for us to rejoice of the good/ which hath followed that evil. And this distinction of rejoicing/ S. Paul doth include in these 
Philip. 1. cap. 18. u 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  words in this, which he setteth down to be/ in that Christ is preached. As if he would say/ it grieveth me that the word is preached by such men/ but yet I am glad that it is preached.  
And although it be hard to know/ how they sought to add to S. Paul's bands/ yet if be true that the greek Scoliast writeth/ that they did it to this end/ that the persecutors seeing the numbered of the professors of Christ/ might (being more inflamed against S. Paul/ as one which had sown the first seed) the rather hasten his death: who seeth not that it had been the church's part at Rome/ to have to the uttermost of their power/ endeavoured to have stopped the mouth off those preachers? therefore I am well assured/ that if the godly of the church which was at Rome/ could have restrained those preachers: they would not have suffered them/ to have abused the gospel to his straighter imprisonment/ much less to the taking away of his life. And therefore that they were not restrained/ proveth nothing that they ought not by any means/ so to have been: but rather argueth the fewnes of the church/ which favoured sincerity of the gospel/ that S. Paul preached/ which fewnes also appeareth in an other place. 
●. Tim. 4. 16.   
The next reason is very strange/ that every one which is a member of the invisible church, should be a minister off the visible. For by this means/ may be taken not only the most unhablest in the church: but those also/ which are not yet called to the church. But your meaning is/ if he be off the church/ and other things correspondent. yet one of those conditions is no where expressed/ and the other is almost thirty lines before in an other section/ and in an other case: so that it is dangerously spoken/ and may give very great occasion of offence. And I leave it to the consideration of the te●der/ how often you have quarrelled/ where there is nothing the like occasion/ as you give by this looseness.  
I will also let go/ your unproper/ and unwonted speech/ whereby you make one/ and the same/ at one/ and the same time/ a member of the visible/ and invisible church. For seeing the invisible church upon earth/ is off those only/ which either are not called/ or lie hid/ and ungathered unto any known fellowship where the word of God is preached/ and the sacraments administered: he which by repentance joineth himself to the visible church of God/ can not be said to be a member of the invisible church. For as when the triumphant church is opposed unto the militant/ one man/ at one time/ can not be said to be a member off both: so here where you oppose the visible/ and invisible church/ it can not be that he that is said/ to be a member of the one/ should be also a member of the other. But for answer I say/ that if there were here any comparison at all/ yet it halteth down right: although we ought charitably to think/ that he that hath given good tokens of repentance/ hath truely repented/ and therefore is of the elect church of God: yet that foundation always remaineth/ that when the question is of an others man's election/ God knoweth who are his. So that you can draw no argument from 
2. Tim. 2. 19  his election/ which is uncertain unto us: to conclude a certain election/ unto the ministery.  
Again why do you say/ he that is a member of the invisible, may be a minister in the visible? as though the invisible church/ were off some higher nature/ then the visible: or as though the true members of the visible church/ did not make one mystical body of Christ with the invisible.  
Therefore when all cometh to all/ the reason is nothing else/ but he is a member of the church/ ergo he is fit to be a minister off the church/ which is very absurd. For by this means all good order of discipline is troubled/ in house/ and in common wealth. The master which hath been deceived off his servant/ which he most put in trust (as for example in the office of stewardship) if he give good tokens of repentance/ must off necessity restore him to his place. For will he seclude him from his stewardship/ whom Christ doth receive into his kingdom? and shall not we think him/ to be a meet officer in his masters house/ albeit he have committed adultery with his mistress: which is a member of the elect church of Christ? And this reason standing/ common wealths must go upside down. for besides that all those laws are condemned/ which debar men from certain freedoms/ and honour's/ which have been stained with especial vices: as he that is once convinced of perjury/ from bearing witness at any time/ etc. there may none either traitor/ or murderer/ be put to death/ if he be repentante. For his pardon is caselie pleaded by the Answ. rule/ that if he be meet to devil in heaven/ he is meet to remain upon earth/ and if the lord give him everlasting life/ should we deny unto him this transitory life? And not that only/ but if he had had an office before/ it is meet he should be restored to it again. If this be an absurd/ and anabaptistical kind of reasoning/ in the discipline of the house/ and government of the common wealth: how is it not the same/ in the discipline of the church?  
And if you stick so hard to the example of God: it is not hard to show/ how that the lord remitting the fault unto his children upon their repentance/ hath notwithstanding kept them in sharp discipline for their faults/ all the days of their life/ both in there own persons/ and sometimes in there children's/ and in all that belonged unto them. so that if you will needs tie 
2, Sam. 12. 10.  the church/ to the example of god's mercy/ and forgivence: that doth not only not hinder these chastismentes/ and church discipline: but also extendeth it further/ then the church/ or the common wealth may do.  
The holy ghost by jethro/ prescribing what officers should 
18. Exod.  be chosen/ doth not only require/ that they should fear God (which is to say/ be of good religion) be wise/ and valiant: but also requireth 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 7. Neh. 2.  that they be trusty, which (as appeareth by other places off the Scripture/ where this here commanded/ was put in execution) signifieth such as were faithful/ and trusty to the commonwealth/ and which had of their former life/ given good arguments off there fastness that way. Therefore if in choice to the great/ and weighty charges off the common wealth it is not enough that they be of good Religion/ able also for their wisdom/ and courage of mind to execute: unless they have been found faithful in that estate/ wherein they have lived before: how much more ought that to be observed/ in committing the greatest charge/ that is under the son/ which is the ministery of the word? And if in common wealths/ men will commit no great trust unto him/ which hath deceived the trust/ which was put upon him: how much more ought that to be observed in the church? Where as the loss/ and danger is greater: so ought the trust to be slower/ and the parties to whom it should be committed/ more unsuspected. And yet for further confirmation he must understand/ that for as much as our Saviour Christ/ and S. Paul require/ that a minister off the word of God should be faithful in his office: as those to whom the choice belongeth/ ought to have regard to his former sobriety/ continency in life/ and other virtues/ to induce themselves to a good persuasion of him/ touching those virtues: so ought they upon his former life/ to gather such arguments of his faithfulness/ and trust: as thereby they may be able to meintaine a strong/ and mighty presumption of the faithfulness which is to come. which thing when they can not do in one/ whose untrustiness is fresh before their eyes: they can not have sufficient testimony/ to persuade their conscience/ that he is of that trust/ to whom they may commit the church of God. For if they look upon repentance which he professeth: it cometh always to mind/ that countenance/ the eyes do lie oftentimes/ and mouth oftenest of all. And albeit upon good/ and likely tokens/ the church ought to think it a true repentance: yet it can not be so sure thereof/ as it is off the unfaithfulness. So that in weighing the repentance/ which is uncertain/ with the counterpoise of his unfaithfulness/ that is certain: it will be hard to conceive that strength of opinion/ off his unfaithfulness/ whereupon they may adventure/ to put him again in trust with the church. At the lest/ if there be one fit for the ministery/ which never was stained with that fault: all men must needs grant/ that he is meeter/ to satisfy the consciences of the choosers/ then the other: which the Ans. denieth.  
And as before I have showed/ that the example of our Sau. Christ/ in putting. S. Paul/ and S. Peter into the ministery/ is not to be followed of us: So upon the matter I have here alleged/ it may 
joh. 2. Psal. 139.  easily appear why. That is to say/ for as much as he knew the heart of man/ and saw their cogitations long before they were conceived: he needed not any time to try/ how they would behave themselves in their ministery/ nor any either Testimonies/ or arguments of former life/ to help his persuasion of their fitness thereunto. Therefore he knowing/ both by the fullness of the spirit of discretion/ given him without measure/ and by his divine knowledge/ how faithfully they would employ themselves in that mynistrye: might well open the door unto those/ against whom the church ought to keep it shut.  
If any man would here except against this answer/ with the example of judas/ which did so traitorously behave him self in his office: it is not worth the answer. For who knoweth not/ that that was done/ that the Scripture might be fulfilled: and that for that cause our Saviour christ/ forseinge the treason 
joh. 13. Act. 1.  to come/ did notwithstanding give him a place in that ministry? So that if they would conclude any thing of that example: they must conclude/ that the church may choose one/ which it thinketh will deceive the trust/ that is laid upon him. I could here dispute/ whether although he repented truly/ yet forsomuch as he is subject to another such fall/ as well as any other: it were both less danger for him/ and les hurt for the church/ to receive such an overthrow under an other captain never foiled/ then under him/ under whom it hath already been put to flight. But forsomuch as it is not so clear/ and requireth a longer discourse: I am content to let that pass.  
Yet that may not be omitted/ that as in the refusal of a minister/ which hath defiled himself with Idolatry/ provision is made for the safety/ and security of the church: so an eye is had to a more plentiful fruit/ which may redound unto it/ by him that is placed in the ministry. And forasmuch as no small portion off that/ should be by great likelihood turned a way/ by restoring such one/ as hath fallen so grievously: amongst other reasons that also hath force/ to hinder his restirution. For when S. Paul requireth authority in a deacon/ purchased by continual 
1. Tim. 3.  tenor/ and as it were by an even thread/ of a holy/ and innocent life/ that he might with greater liberty/ and boldness execute his office: he sufficiently declareth/ that such a fall/ especially in the bishop/ and minister/ taken in the race off his ministery/ maketh a deep wound into that authority/ and freedom off rebuking others/ which is necessary for him/ for furtherance off high mynistry/ to retain. And as it taketh away from his freedom in reprehending: so that which he reprehendethe/ hath so much less authority with the hearer: as it is not only not confirmed/ but contraried by his example. And if Tymothe/ being endued with such rare gifts of knowledge/ and holiness 
1. Tim. 4. 12.  of life/ had much a do to maintain his authority in the church/ against the contempt of his youth/ which was no fault: he had need have very extraordinary gifts/ which can deliver his ministry from contempt/ ten fold more occasioned by such a fall/ then by want/ of a few years. seeing therefore the wound being healed by repentance/ the skarr doth yet remain in the eyes of the church/ to the blemishing of his ministry: it is good he be taken down/ and set in some less lightesome place/ off the church off God.  
There was yet a third reason/ which no doubt moved the churches to keep this order: that this bar of him from the ministry/ which had so fallen/ might serve for example unto other ministers/ to take heed. For they considered well/ that as common wealths/ so the churches of God/ are preserved by reward/ and punishment: and that as in the reward off some/ other are provoked to make after those things/ which are by that reward crowned: so by the punishment of some/ other are terrified from doing that/ for which they see them dishonoured. Therefore they thowghte it unmeet/ that he which had faulted in the quality of a minister/ should no other wise be disciplined/ then a private person: but rather as his fault exceeded/ so his correction should increase. Which thing being so much commended/ in common wealths well governed: I see no cause/ why it should not be as convenient in the church of God: so far/ and in such kind of corrections/ as are in the church's power. And therefore it appeareth/ that the commandment which is given in Ezethiell / and in the book of the kings/ for the separating off the Levytes from their ministery/ which had fallen to idolatry: was not a law for a time/ but drawn from the springe of that equity/ which can not be changed.  
And so far is it/ that the gospel hath made this law void: that it hath also confirmed it. for if the ministery of the law/ were so glorious/ that it would not be handled off those/ which had once fallen from it by Idolatry/ although they did repent: how much more/ ought the mynystrie of the gospel 
2. Cor. 3.  (which so surmounteth the ministry of the law/ as the gospel doth the law) be untouched off such/ as forsaking it/ have defiled themselves with that sin? And if for a less fault/ they were kept from a lower place in the church: for a greater fault/ should not they much more be kept from a higher dignity? for whereas now the second time he faith/ that under the law, there were certain corporal pollutions, which made a man unclean for a time: it proceadethe of too great ignorance of the Scripture/ either in not knowing/ in what short time those pollutions might be purged: or else assigning any cause off the Levytes putting forth of their ministry for ever/ for the pollutions which were in so few days cleansed.  
Your allegationn out of master Caluin touching the widows/ is nothing for you/ nothing to the cause. For what if he say/ that the apostle requireth that they should be benyficiall: doth it therefore follow/ that respect should not be had into their whole life. It may be easily unsterstanded/ that the apostle having drawn the office of a widow/ through divers sorts of good works/ because it had been to long/ to recite all: shutteth up with that clause/ as if he should say/ that I stand not in rehearsal of all/ I will have her such/ as hath exercised herself in every good work.  
But I desire the reader to observe the unfaithfulness/ and open corruption that he useth/ in citing of master Calu. For his judgement being not called for/ but answer required to the words of S. Paul/ he hath taken that which serveth not to the purpose/ and hath left out that in the exposition of the same verse/ which is directly against that he allegeth master Caluin for. Whose words are these/ There is no doubt, b●t there were worshipful, and very reverent colleges, or companies of widows: 
upon 1▪ Tim. 5.  therefore Paul will have none chosen thither, but such as be commended by a notable testimony, of their whole former life.  
And whereas he asketh/ how could that be, when they had but one part of their life known Christ: not to speak off the jewish widows/ which might have led their whole life in good/ and holy works in deed: he must learn/ that S. Paul doth not there speak only off good works/ which are the fruits of faith: but calleth those good works/ which are cyvilly/ and in owtewarde show/ and estimation of men good. So that he requireth/ that those only be chosen amongst the women/ which were never detected off any notable crime: but have always lived in an honest/ civil behaviour amongst their neighbours. And thus S. Luke calleth those women religious, and honest, 
13. Act. 50  which were moved to persequte S. Paul There was neither true Religion/ nor honesty in them/ but so he calleth them/ because they were so esteemed. S. Paul also saith off himself/ when he was the enemy off christ/ that he was before his conversion/ as 
Phil. 3. 6.  touching the justice of the law, unblamable: Which must needs be understanded/ off a civil/ and outward kind of justice/ and not of any good works/ which were true fruits of the spirit off God. hereof he requireth/ that he that is to be chosen 
1. Tim. 3. 7.  bishop/ should have the testimony of strangers from the church: that is to say/ which lived with out breach of that civil honesty/ which the very heathen have in recommendation. Which Testimony he could never have if he were known/ to be either a drunkard/ or an adulterer/ etc. the knowledge of which crimes/ God hath written/ so deeply in the heart of man/ that no ignorance of God/ or savageness off life/ could ever raze it out. So you see S. Paul/ might require a Testimony of good behaviour of the whole life of those/ which had led put a part of it in Christianity.  
Who goeth about to excuse S. Peter's denial? doth he that saith it is a great and a heinous crime, excuse it: I said/ I thowghte 
Diuis. 3. pag. 146.  I should trouble you, if I put you to prove his fault to be as great as his that slideth from the gospel, to Idolatry, and therein abide the some years: And I perceive I have troubled you/ for you can not answer unto that poor reason/ which I in passing interlaced. To help to maintain your untrwth/ you have here set S. Peter's fault of the last/ saying/ he did it wittingly, and willingly. For it being done off infirmity/ and to save his life/ although it is was not done without his will: yet I report me to the use off our speech/ whether this witting, and willing doing be not spoken of those only/ which do it without any manner of compulsion/ or drift of fear.  
But therein you do him open injury/ when you say/ that his fault was as grievous as any bind of idolatry. For I beseech you is not the denial of the gospel/ as great a fault/ as the denial of Christ? so far therefore the faults are equal. In denying twice/ he is matched with a great number off Idolaters/ which at one clapp have renounced him with mouth/ and subscribed against him with their hand, and where he forswore him once/ they have forsworn him often/ according to the number off dioceses/ where they have had their livings/ and diversity of times wherein such things have been required. That warning S. Peter had a little before/ by the mouth of our Saviour Christ, they had by the voice off the minister/ which hath the authority of Christ. That he did almost in the presence of his master, it seemeth by that which hath followed in some/ they would have done/ if he had stood/ and looked on.  
But let that increase his fault/ yet this circumstance maketh it not so great/ that where Peter denied Christ cast down/ or in time of his humility: they have denied him risen from the dead/ ascended up into heaven/ fytting on the right hand● of God the father in glory. I leave to be considered/ whether hitherto the fault of Saint Peter/ be not only matched/ but also overweighed. Now for a surcrease/ and overrunninge measure/ S. Peter did it to save his skin/ they to save their honour: He for his life/ they for their living. I speak favourably/ for otherwise I might say of some/ that they did it not only to save that which they had/ but to get more unto it. S. Peter did it pe●●●●●ly/ and in a corner: they in set/ and open judgement. He only denied that he knew him/ or that he was one of his disciples/ but spoke no evil of him/ nor of his doctrine: they affirmed that they knew the gospel to be nawghte/ and so spoke evil both of Christ and it. He did it suddenly/ and at a push: they deliberately/ and with time given to consult: he although he forsook his master Christ/ yet he never served the scribes/ and Phariseis/ which were the enemies of Christ: they did not only forsake Christ/ but served in the courts of his sworn enemy antichrist.  
Now if their faults were in the very kind/ so many ways greater than his: it must needs follow/ that the longer they spun the thread off their sin/ then he did off his: so much more groweth unto theirs/ then unto his: and therefore what difference between hours/ and years: so much between theirs/ and his. I leave to speak how S. Peter/ was wakened at the voice of a ●ocke/ which they were not at many voices of the son of god: he was checked at a look off our Saviour Christ: they not at his frown/ and chiding voice.  
I have spoken this/ neither to excuse Saint Peter/ whom I know to have sinned heinously/ nor to throw down the seat of mercy agayinste those/ which have thus sinned/ which standeth sure upon the brazen pillars of the promises of God/ to all which do repent: but to this end/ that I might show/ how untrue it is/ that is here so avouched off the Ans. that S. Peter's fault was more grievous, than any kind of idolatry. and that such as have so sinned/ understanding their sin to be of a longer last/ than S. Peter'S/ might not deceive themselves in the measure.  
It maketh nothing to the purpose that is here alleged/ of the unchaungablenes of the mercy of god: or that out of S. Paul to Timothy. As if the question were/ whether they which had fallen from the ministry of the gospel to Idolatry/ should be received to mercy: or that the mercy of God were denied unto him/ to whom the ministry is denied: or as if mercy/ and correction could not stand together: or as if the Levites received not mercy/ both of God/ and off the church/ which received not their ministery: or as though Cyprian/ and other father's/ which shut the door of the ministery against such/ were not enemies unto those that denied repentance unto the fallen/ when Cyprian calleth Nonatus (author off that error) the murderer of repentance. I marvel therefore what he meaneth/ thus to go about to abuse his reader/ in seeming to say something/ when he saith nothing.  
In the end he saith/ that these examples of our Saviour Christ, are not to be followed in all points. In what points to be followed? and in what to be avoided? this was necessary to have been showed. And have you forgotten/ what you asked of me: how I knew certain things to be followed, and other not? and how either all must 
pag. 133.  be followed, or none? and what revelation I had received to know what things in the election of Mathias pertained to ours, and what not? how pernicious a voice it is// both to the church/ and common wealth/ that no man what crime soever he hath committed, is to be secluded from any lawful vocation if he repent: how licentious/ how near approaching to Anabaptism/ if I had said nothing at all/ yet hath it plentiful confutation/ both off reason/ and off all good policed churches/ or common wealths that ever were. I have showed general commandments to the contrary: therefore unless you can show them repealed/ by a contrary act: they are still in force. For the examples of S. Peter and S. Paul/ here tediously repeated: I have answerrd before at large.  
touching the wiping a way of Ambrose example, I did it first in place: which your gloss denieth. For proving that no new convert/ 
Diu. 4. p. 14●.  should be chosen to the ministery/ allthowgh our Saviour Christ did choose S. Paul/ Ambrose example stood in the way: and therefore I gave him in deed the wipe/ but it was with the sword off God. His choice was also/ against the allowed practice off the church/ if you know whose voice this is: yester day cathechised, to day a bishop. Where he merueilethe/ that 
〈◊〉. ad Oc●●n.  so plain a precept off S. Paul is not kept/ and calleth them sudden, and momentany ministers, which are so made. And albeit that some differred their baptism, long after their conversion, and in deed to the time of death: yet you do not show/ that Ambrose was in that ●●●ber. If he were/ you fasten thereby greater ignorance upon him/ then I have done: who (you say) speak contemptuously of him. Besides it is one thing not to be baptised, and another thing to be catechumenus. For those which were not baptised/ being sufficiently instructed/ were admitted to the supper of the lord: but in that it is said/ Ambrose was Cathecumenus, 
Socrat. 4. lib. 30.  is declared/ that he was not yet sufficiently instructed/ in the principles of religion. Whatsoever it is/ I say it could not be without great disorder/ that a man should be chosen governor of the city/ which had never tasted off the water thereof. I know Ambrose was a notable man/ and learned in humane knowledge: yet I might without either great disgrace/ or any contempt/ say that which I said. And if this were the place for it: I could easily show upon how good ground I said/ that it had been safer for the church, he had been better instructed in the scriptures, before he occupied the place of Doctor. Whereunto I could use his own testimony/ which saith/ 
1. lib. offi..  that he was constrained to teach/ that which he himself had not learned.  
Albeit he is constrained/ to agreed to that which is affirmed: 
Divi. 5. p: 147. Cyp. 1. li. Epist. 7.  yet for the great desire he hath/ to strike at me/ he would wrest this epistle out of my hands/ then the which there can be nothing more plain. For Cyprian/ reasonethe against Fortunatius challenge of his bishopric/ after that he had fallen to Idolatry: by the general rule/ that none ought to be admitted unto the ministry/ which had so fallen. And therefore almost in the beginning off the Epistle/ he chargeth him that he dare challenge unto him the ministery, which he hath betrayed: as thowgh it were lawful after having been at the altar off the devil, to come unto the altar of god. And after he had showed the horrible punishments/ that the lord God willed they should be punished with/ that faulted that ways: he addeth/ Seeing therefore the lord threateneth such torments, and punishments in the day of his wrath, to such as obey the devil, and sacrifice to idols: how can he think, that he may do the office of the minister of God, which hath obeyed, and served the pry stes of the devil? or how doth he think, that his hand can be translated to the sacrifice, and prayer of the lord: which was captive to sacrilege, and to such a crime? of these words and divers other in that epistle/ it is evident/ that he doth not therefore seclude Fortunat. only/ because he did not repent: but because it was not lawful/ for those that had sacrificed/ etc. to be restored unto their ministry. And therefore he purge the him self/ and his fellows in an other place/ off that he was supposed to 
4. l. 2. ep.  have received Trophimus to the ministry/ and otherwise then a lay man: although it be there declared/ that Trophimus did submit himself in all humility/ unto the church.  
Wherefore hath he brought in here/ that there was certain time of repentance appointed in Cyprians time, etc. doth any body deny it? or maketh it any thing to his purpose? That which he he should have proved/ he to wchethe not. For against that he said/ of the examples of the primative church, in restoring off those unto their ministry, which had fallen unto Idolatry: I have showed the use off the most ancientest times/ and he bringeth nothing at all/ but only affirmeth those things/ which no man denieth/ and make nothing to the purpose.  
The council of Carthage (which ordained that none might be received again to the ministery/ which had defiled him self with Idolatry) is here rejected: the reason whereof is also added/ for that the same council decreed, rebaptizing off those which were baptised by Heretics: The Ans. may throw away the authority of a council/ because of an error in it/ without either scripture/ Doctor/ or council: when I do it/ not without either all these authorities/ or at the lest/ off the scripture: it is cried out against/ as an unlearned shift, and I can not tell what. But I am contented you shall throw a way the council of Carthage/ which established that error: yet you shall not throw away that/ wherein it was agreed/ against restoring off ministers/ fallen into Idolatry. How so? Because they were decreed in several counsels. For proof thereof/ I allege the words of Cyprian. And when there be other both many/ and grievous faults/ where with 
1. li. E. 4.  Basilides/ and Marshal are enwrapped: such do in vain go about / to occupy the place off a bishop. seeing it is manifest/ that such men may not govern the church off christ/ nor offer up sacrifices unto God. Especially when off late/ both with us/ and with all the bishops in the world/ even Cornelius also/ our fellow in ministery peaceable/ and just/ and whom the lord vouchsafed the honour off a Martyr/ decreed/ that such men might be admitted to repentance/ but should notwithstanding be kept from the honour of the clergy/ or ministry. Of this place I conclude/ that forsomuch as the Council of Carthage/ was provincial/ as that which was gathered off the bishops of Africa/ Mauritania/ and Numidia/ and this general/ as that which was assembled of all the bishops of the world: that the council wherein this was determined/ is not the same which determined rebaptisation. Again at this council Cornelius was/ and gave his consent: at the other he was not/ neither would ever give his consent. And so also is answered/ that which you cite out of the second book of Cyprian/ and first epistle/ that for so much as/ the council that there is spoken off/ was in Stephanus time/ the bishop of Rome: it can be by no means understanded off this council/ that decreed against the restitution of the ministers which had fallen/ which was holden before his time. Therefore the council there spoken of/ was but a conference of bishops/ or ministers which were near unto that place/ where Cyprian remained. For if it had been any solemn council/ Cypr. would not first have holden that/ and then after they had decreed off matters in consultation (as it appeareth in that epistle they had) conferred with him by letters. And if he should: yet it doth manifestly appear/ by that which I have alleged/ that this was decreed long before. I will therefore wait/ what advise you will take/ to answer to this Council: which was both catholic/ and general/ and more ancient than that off Nice: putting you also in remembrance/ what a great extoller off councils you be/ when they make any thing for you.  
None of the places which they alleged/ declare anysuche meaning: and the place quoted out of Eze. manifestly declareth/ that they ment of those which had fallen from the truth. Besides 
Diu. 6. p. 148.  that all men may see/ that you brought these examples of M. Luth. etc. to prove that ministers which had fallen into Idolatry/ might be restored unto the ministery. And where they speak off king Henry's priests/ king Edward's/ etc. It is apparent/ that they ment not to seclude them/ for that they were king Henry's priests: but because they were king Henry's/ and Queen Mary's priests both/ seeing they also shut forth/ king Edward's priests/ which by no means they can be suspected to have done/ unless they had ment of those/ which being ministers then/ were priests also in Queen Mary's times. If They had said thus simply/ all indifferent judgement must needs so have expounded them: but when they expound themselves so plainly/ in these words/ men for all seasons: I might well say/ as I have said/ what hath so blynnded your eyes, etc.  
For his judgement off certain preachers now, massmongers in Queen Mary's times, comparable with any in the land: I leave to speak of it. For seeing he hath a several divinity from others/ he must be suffered also to frame his judgement thereafter. The slanderoous untrwthes/ that are here uttered/ I will not defile my pen with. of the places of Deuter. and Ezechiel I have spoken. How the judicial law/ is in the power off the magistrate/ is declared/ and here was no place to speak off it. Forasmuch as the question is here/ off the discipline of the church/ and not off civil punishments: and whether the church ought to admit a minister/ that hath fallen unto Idolatry. The next section/ I leave to the judgement of the reader. The next unto that/ is answered before in the first tract. and 6. chap.  
It was a great part of Alexander's commendation/ that 
Diuis. 9 pa. 151. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Plutar. in his life.  he was fierce in fight/ and gentle in victory. The D. is clean contrary. For a lamb is not so meek/ and so tame as he is in his disputation/ and reasoning: but in his triumphs/ although false/ and imagined/ there is nothing more fierce. To bear out all this storm off words/ profane Philosopher, and drunken poet, etc. There is not so much as one Philosopher/ profane/ or divine/ one Poet/ sober/ or drunken/ to improve that the gentiles, did never take oxen, serpents, fire, water, etc., to be god: or, that they took the Images before which they fell, for wood, stone, etc. if I should allege all the places out of them/ which might be brought to the confirmation off that/ which I set down: it were much more easier to find a beginning/ then an end. Howbeit/ because off the shameful/ and foreheadles dealing off the D. of an infinite number/ I will allege one/ or two: Whereby it may appear/ what opinion was off these things/ amongst the gentiles.  
And to begin with Philosophers/ it can not be unknown to those which are learned/ that amongst others/ Plato/ and his sect/ approached neereste/ to the true knowledge of god. 
Epist. ad Herm. In Epin. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Vives ex Numen. Philoso. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. De leg & rep lovis omnia plena  And albeit he confessethe in divers places one God/ by whom the world was ruled/ yea and maketh mention/ off the father/ and of the son/ which he calleth the most divine word/ and hath many other things/ consonante unto that which Moses writeth/ in such sort/ that he was called off some/ Moses speaking in the most purest manner of the Grecians: Albeit I say/ this Philosopher did well know/ that there was but one God which made heaven/ and earth: yet he taught/ that divers spirits/ and men also which had been famous upon earth/ should be worshipped.  
For the poets/ the saying of Virgil/ all are full of jupiter: may declare/ that the honour/ and service which the Gentills did to the Images/ beasts/ and other creatures which they worshipped/ was for an opinion that they had/ off the presence of jupiter in ●hose things/ and not for the things themselves. and there wanted not divers amongst them/ which said/ there was but one God/ which they called jupiter/ and that Apollo/ Venus/ Diana/ etc. Were but virtues/ or parts of jupiter/ so that in those they worshipped jupiter. And although the Egyptians/ were comparable in grossness of Idolatry/ with any nation: Yet Isocrates thus writeth off their manner of worship. He appointed off all sorts off divine worship, o● exercise unto 
In Bousiris.  them, and made a law for the worshipping of beasts, despised amongst us: not that he was ignorant of their power/ but because he would accustom the people/ to the obedience of those things which were commanded by their princes: and withal/ meaning thereby to take a proof/ how they were affected towards the invisible thing/ by things visible. Here you hear the Philosophers/ the Poctes/ the Orators (which were the Prophets of the gentiles): yet none ascribethe unto them such a dotage/ as to think a piece of wood/ etc. to be God.  
And if this knowledge were in the grossest Idolaters: how can such ignorance have been in the Israelites/ as he imaginethe? But I had forgotten the boy of the grammar school, whom he appointethe for my schoolmaster in this matter: whereas if ever he took heed unto the first verse of Cato/ he must needs give 
Si Deus est animus, etc.  witness of our side/ that the gentiles took God for a spirit/ and not for a piece off would/ etc.  
And this that is here spoken/ off sundry of the Idolatrous Gentiles/ S. Paul pronounceth of them all/ where he going about to prove/ that all the nations were shut under condemnation: 
Rom. 1.  saith/ that they knew God by his creatures, but did not glorify him as God. This opininion the Gentle had of one God/ justine martyr proveth/ by that whensoever they entered into any earnest consideration of God/ they were wont to name 
De Monarc.  one God only. And that they imagined their Gods to be in heaven/ beside that it is easy to gather off their gestures/ in holding up their hands/ and casting up their eyes unto heaven/ as oft as they felt themselves in any danger: may likewise appear/ where the Idolaters of Listra/ and Derbe conceiving off Barnabas/ and Paul as off Gods: to maintain that error of theirs/ are driven to say/ that they were come down from heaven: declaring thereby/ 
Act. 14.  that the received opinion of them was: that the ordinary Gods/ were in heaven. For it is not to be doubted/ but they had the images of jupiter/ and Mercury which they worshipped in that place: and yet they did not take them for their God's/ but Imagined that the Gods whereof those were the Images/ were in heaven.  
Now this that every drunken poet, and boy, etc. can tell to be otherwise, let us see whether grave/ learned/ sober/ and ancient divines/ do not plainly confirm. Augustine (which is here alleged/ to prove that the gentiles did take the very images themselves to be 
Upon the 215. Psal. ● part.  their gods) showeth that the very vulgar/ and grossest sort of Idolaters/ could answer when they were rebuked of their Idolatry/ and heathenish worship: that they worshipped not the visible image, but that which dwelled invisibly in it. and that they off the finer sort answered/ that they neither worshipped the image, nor any spirit in the image, but by that bodily image did behold the sign of that thing, which they ought to worship. M. Caluin (answering unto the Papists objection/ 
1. l. Ins. 11. c. s. 9  that their images are not taken for gods) saith thus. Neither were the jews (saith he) so unwise, that they did not remember that it was God, by whose hand they were brough out of Egypt, before they made the calf: yea unto Aaron saying, that those were their gods which browghte them out of Egypt, they did without staggering consent, giving thereby to understand assuredly, that they would keep still the same God for their deliverer, so that they might see him go before them in the calf. Neither is it to be thowghte that the Gentiles were so blockish, that they did not understand that God was some other thing, than wood, or stone. For they changed their images oftentimes, and yet kept the same gods still in there mind: and their were many Images set up to one God, neither did they therefore according to that multitude, imagine many Gods. Besides that daily they consecrated new Images. and yet they thowghte not therefore that they made new Gods. And towards the end off that section he writeth thus: notwithstanding both the jews were Persuaded, that under such Images they worshipped the eternal god, the one, true lord of heaven and earth: and the Gentiles also that by them they worshipped their gods although false, yet which they imagined to have their abode in heaven. And in the beginning off the tenth section: Those which deny, that this was done in times passed, and is done in our age, lie impudently. And towards the latter end off that section/ unto the Papists objecting that they do not call the images their gods/ he answereth: Neither did either the jews, or Gentiles so in times passed, and yet the Prophets in every place did not cease to cast in their teeth fornication with wood, and stone: only for the things, which are daily done of those, which will be counted Christians, that is to say, for that they worshipped God carnally in wood, and stone. Now take away that which you have partly in your gloze/ and partly in your text/ most untruly surmised: and show me one word in all this section/ which you have made such horrible owtecries off/ that Master Caluin doth not speak more fully/ then I  
For where in your gloss/ upon my words/ And who knoweth not that they thowghte that by them, and in them, they worshipped the God which made heaven, and earth, you note in the mergente a gross error, making me to affirm that all the Gentills believed, that God made heaven, and earth: you change not your skin/ still you seek advantage by falsehood. For tell me are these all one/ they thowghte they worshipped God, which made heaven, and earth, and they/ they thowghte that God made heaven and earth? When it is said/ that the Papists think they swallow christ/ which only sitteth at the right hand of God: 
Fallac: compos:  doth one affirm/ that the Papists think/ that christ sitteth only at the right hand of God? For when there are two propositions there: whereof the one is/ that the Gentills thowght they worshipped God/ the other/ that that God made heaven/ and earth: the Answ. would make them as one. But what a veration of spirit is it/ to have to do with one/ which either knoweth not what the value off a proposition is: or else knowing/ doth so shamefully wrist it?  
Yet the other which he ascribethe unto me in his text/ is yet farther from honest dealing. For he asketh me/ whether jupiter, Apollo etc. were gods which created heaven, and earth: as if I had given any occasion of that question. He addeth/ and asketh/ whether they were thowght to have made heaven, and earth? To whom I have answered before/ that the words import no such thing: neither had I either in that proposition/ or in any before/ made mention off jupiter/ or Apollo/ etc. And if I should answer/ that jupiter was thought off some/ abused by fables of the poets/ to have made heaven/ and earth: What would follow thereof? I say therefore again/ that take away your untrue additions: and there is nothing set down of me/ which Master Caluin doth not precisely affirm. And that which I have set down out of 
Expos. 1. command. tit. Against. the worship off dead saints.  Master Caluin/ I could recite as fully/ and as plainly out of Master Musculus/ which I omit.  
For your places which you have heaped together here/ I know them well/ and had them before me when I wrote. You give me them in gross/ without applying: you either could frame no argument of them/ or feared the answer. I can not examine all those chapit. which you give me/ whiles I would writ a whole book of that matter only. You take up the Adm. because they apply not their scriptures/ and frame not their arguments: yet they let not you wander in the whole chapter/ but gave one verse to speak unto. I must also admonish you to bear more reverence unto the scripture, then to confound it with Baruche, and especially with the story of Bell, and the Dracon: if you will not be admonished/ I will desire the reader to take heed off such confusion: there being as much difference between the one and the other/ as between heaven and earth/ God and man.  
Why? is this the proof you promise' in your gloze/ whereby you said/ it should appear to be untrue that I alleged? Those great words made me hope after some strong reasons/ if we will follow him here/ he will lead us the ready way to the popish transubstantiation. For he stickethe in the very word/ and will admit no sacramental speech/ and therefore where the ark is called 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  the lord of hosts, the king of glory: in his divinity/ it must needs be taken so in deed/ that the ark made off wood is 
Psal. 24.  very God. For in the words of the text it is expressly signified. And even as that is/ so is this a sacramental speech: whereby they having the golden calf for a token/ and sign of the presence of god/ 
Exod. 32.  called it by the name off God. now having no reason but off the papists only/ to warante this opinion: off his accustomed liberality/ in giving that which he can not hold/ he admitteth for sooth that it is metonimically spoken yet after that by force off the truth / it is writhen from him: he reacheth out his hand after it/ saying/ that it is but a conjecture. it is a certain truth M. W. and no conjecture: standing not upon the judgement of men/ which I could allege of divers learned/ that have written of that place: but upon unfailible reasons/ whereof that is one which I have alleged/ off the usual phrase off the scripture/ in speaking of signs. And if it had been lawful for them/ to have likened the majesty of God unto a calf/ or to have had such a token of the presence of God: it had not been unlawful/ to have called it Sacramentally/ by the name off God.  
Moreover forasmuch as the knowledge of God/ is a habit which god giveth by little and little/ through teaching/ it is impossible/ that the Israelites so well instructed/ and having given also good experience before/ that they knew the true God: should so suddenly/ at one instant/ so many/ lose all that knowledge of God/ and take a calf to be that/ which browghte them out of the land of Egypt: but as it came by little and little/ so it must of necessity have a time/ whereby it might by little/ and little be lost. And hitherto is referred that which Master calvin allegeth/ off the consent off the people to that/ which Aaron said off keeping holy day unto the lord: whereby they declared that they held that for good/ which Aaron said.  
Further if the Israelites had taken the calf for their God: Moses in giving them it to drink after he had beaten it to powder/ should have driven them to a great sin/ and have killed their consciences/ in compelling them to drink that/ which they were persuaded to be a piece of the true God/ which browghte them out of Egypt. Which thing when no man of any knowledge can say: it is certain that Moses did think/ that the Israelites did know that the calf was not the true God. Beside that albeit Aaron faulted grievously/ yet it is great injury done unto him/ to think that ever he would have either caused/ or consented/ a calf to be made: if he thowghte that the Israelites would have taken that/ for the true God. yea after they had uttered that voice/ these are they Gods, etc.: It is said that Aaron seeing that/ made an altar before the calf: Which he would never have done/ if he had understanded the Israelites as the D. doth.  
I had not the text before me/ when I wrote/ but I took the sense which I was well assured off. seeing they both consented to Aaron saying/ ye shall keep holy day to the Lord, 
Exod. 32. 6.  and did so. Therefore allthowghe it be subject to the reprehension of a caviller: yet I altered nothing of the meaning of the place/ in that I set down/ that the Israelites said, they would keep holy day to the Lord  
I put you over to the learned writers, and now I have told you off two/ which do in plain words/ whet their styles directly against your distinction. You mislike off the distinction, but you are driven to use it: you excuse not the papists, but you lessen their crime/ and therefore you may well be called their Patron. For it is a precept amongst the Rethoricians/ that if the client's fault be apparante: the advocate should confess it/ and then employ the strength of his wit/ to cause it seem as little as may be. And where in the distinction of degrees of Idolatry/ you say/ that the jews did oftentimes offend in the last, and the worst, and the Papists not you in deed say it/ and say it again/ but you bring nothing to prove it once. I could reply/ that the Papists used more detestable Idolatry/ then ever did the jews. For show me by any good authority/ or reason/ that the jews did ever think/ or teach/ that a dead Image off would/ and stone should be worshipped with the honour off the holy trinity: and this notwithstanding 
●. Coun. Nic.  is taught off the Papists. Or show me where ever the jews did worship/ so vile a thing/ as a piece of bread: which received into the stomach/ is after cast into the privy. And as it can not be denied/ but they take that bread for the very God/ which made heaven/ and earth: So I am persuaded that it can never be showed/ that the jews were ever so gross to believe/ that any simple creature seen with their eyes/ was the living God.  
The Ans. bindethe well in the endè/ with his therefore if they repent, etc. Wherefore? because their Idolatry is not so great as that off the jews? as if their mercy/ which they receive upon repentance/ depended upon the smallness/ or greatness of their Idolatry: or as if the jews/ which repented off their Idolatry/ received not mercy likewise. Verily I can see no band/ to tiethis therefore. with that which went before. it is a weffe/ not worth the taking up. For what needed this now thrice at the lest/ that they are not to be rejected out of the church? as if any denied that. but where you add/ nor out of the ministery: if you mean off such/ as have fallen from the gospel/ and ministry especially/ to Idolatry: I can not bear you/ it is to heavy a conclusion for so weak premises: for Master D. is to much abused/ if he think that the same kay/ openeth the door of the ministery/ and the church door.  
Where he snatcheth at the example of Aaron/ who after that he fell/ was received into the priesthood again/ which he did before in the example off S. Paul that I browghte forth: he declareth what a hungry cause he hath/ which is glad to pull the meat out of the fire/ that it fedethe on. But alas this helpeth not: for it is a singular example/ and may not be drawn into imitation. At which answer my think I see the D. buskell/ and prepare himself to crow/ saying/ that so all may be wiped whatsoever is brought. I will not do therefore as you/ to whom it is enough to say without proof: but will show the reason/ which unless you rest in/ you shall have the controversy with your self. your self affirm that the law in Ezech. and in the book of the kings, touching the not admitting of the Levites to the ministery, is a judicial law of Moses, and given to the Israelites only: which if it be true/ it being general/ must needs comprehend the fault of Aaron. And therefore it followeth/ that the admittance of Aaron to his ministery again/ being directly contrary to the law/ was by an especial dispensation.  
Moreover/ Aaron being appointed to the ministery immediately/ and by the express mouth of God: I see not what man could put him out off it without the same authority which put him in. last of all/ it is very probable/ that where it is 
Deut. 9 20.  said in an other place/ that Moses stood up/ and prayed for Aaron: then Moses received answer/ what should be done with Aaron/ touching his continuance in the ministery. Where your gloss in the end supposeth contrariety, seeing it setteth down none. I have not to answer. it may be the A. laughed when he written that/ whereby he requireth sincere dealing in the scriptures. For if this be sitting in his mouth/ which corrupteth in a manner all he toucheth: why should not also a light housewiffe/ talk of the chastity of a grave matron. The next divis. belonging unto the 6. Tract. off unpreaching ministers/ shall there God willing be answered.   

of election of Ministers/ un voices/ or other consent off the people  
Chap. 4. pag. 155.  
IF chrysostom had had any thing to say touching the election of Deacons: he should have spoken when time was/ and when that place was handled. Yet for answer/ the reader may understand/ that Chrysost. in that place maketh comparison/ between the election in the first of the Acts/ and this: and showeth how the apostles did otherwise there/ then here. For there they chose two/ which they set up before the church. So that when Chrysost. saith/ the apostles might have chosen the deacons: it may be he meaneth they might have chosen them/ as they did the two/ Mathias/ and Barsabas: In which choice I have showed/ the consent off the people was required. if 
upon Act, 1  there were but this place/ which the D. citeth/ I would stand upon this answer: but considering that Chrys. in another place/ affirmeth that Peter might have chosen himself (which I would not keep from the knowledge of the reader) I will not deny but that Chrysost. might have here the meaning the D. supposeth. Whereto as I can by no means agreed/ upon the reasons both before/ and after alleged so the D. is not helped. For when Chryso. commendeth Peter that he did all things by the advise off the church, nothing of his own authority, nothing with dominion: When he addeth also that the same was to avoid contention, 
up. Act. 1. up. Act. 6  and that neither he nor the rest of the Apostles should be thought to choose off favour: he declareth sufficiently that there is no bishop of that either authority/ or holiness of life/ which in making the election without consent of the church/ doth not both lay himself/ and his ministry open to suspicion of parcialitle: and give occasion off pernicious debates in the church.  
He should also understand/ that this proportion is uneven/ and that if it were granted which he desireth: yet he is not where he would be. For if it were lawful/ for the apostles endued with extraordinary gifts of discretion of spirits/ to choose: it followeth not therefore that one Bishop may do so. And because it was lawful for the 12. apostles/ to choose them with whom they were daily conversant: therefore it is lawful for one bishop to choose those/ which he never see/ nor knew before?  
Before I go any further/ it is to be observed/ that although 
2. Diu. p. 156.  the Ans. hold out in the defence of this cause/ off election by the bishop/ certain words of learned men/ racked from their meaning/ and contrary to the continual practice off the authors: yet the truth is/ that as this assertion is the Papists/ and Papists against the Protestants: so all his principal both arguments/ and solutions have been word for word/ ministered unto him out of the books/ off the ranckeste enemies of the truth. 
Phigius li. 2. Hier. c. 2. 9 Phigius 5 li. Hierar. Phigius countro. 16. Hosius de legit. iud. rerum Eccles. Phigius l. 5. Hierar. Ecclesias. cap. 9 Diu. 2. p. 156.  if the reader will see this question diducted at large/ between the catholics/ and the papists: let him read Hosius/ and Phigius/ in these books which I have noted. I will only note the places whence the Ans. arguments are fetched/ with his starting holes wherwithe he would abuse the world. And first of all Marsilius a Catholic/ whom the lord had stirred up to maintain the truth off the Gospel/ About the time of Pope john the 12. disputing against the sole election of the bishop: useth this reason which we have here in hand/ namely/ that forasmuch as the church chose here Deacons/ as it appeareth in the Acts: therefore it ought much more choose her ministers. This reason Phigius (as the D) derideth: no more able to answer it then he.  
The manifest words of the text are/ that Paul/ and Barnabas ordained elders by voces/ neither is there any learned, and godly man browghte/ or as jam persuaded can be brought/ that ever denied that the churches were in election of their ministers/ joined with Paul/ and Barn. That Zuingl. saith/ some were called to the ministery of the word, by the apostles only: what is it to prove/ that Paul/ and Barnabas did here in this place ordain myinisters/ without the voices of the church? it is well therefore M Zuing. hath expressed/ which the D. hath unfaithfully holden back: who translating whole pages to no purpose/ could not here afford us one poor sentence/ off the length off two lines. The other half off the sentence is this: As (saith he) when 
Act. 8. 14.  by the decree off the apostles, Peter and john were sent unto Samaria.  
Mark I beseech you/ what manner of election this was. The apostles chose two/ but such as were approved ministers before: what is this to prove/ that the bishop may choose those/ which were never approved/ or chosen unto the ministry? The apostles chose them to go an embassage/ which should be ended in a few days: and what is that to prove/ that a bishop may choose to a perpetual function? The apostles did it without the consent off that church/ unto which that matter did not belong: what is that to prove/ that the bishop may choose a minister/ without the consent off that church/ which that election doth concern? for that election belonged not/ unto the church of jerusalem where they were: if it had there is no doubt but the apostles would not have done it/ without the consent thereof.  
I leave here to speak of the difference of bishop/ and apostle/ off twelve/ and one: which being observed in the former section/ needeth no rehearsal. And as this maketh nothing for the election of the bishop: so it maketh against that/ for the which this place is brought. For if master Zuing. had been off that judgement/ that Paul/ and Barnabas did by themselves choose/ without the church: he would likely have brought that example/ considering that this can not be properly called any election to the ministry/ which was off those which were ministers before.  
But that you may yet better know the D. unfaithful dealing/ joined with shameless boldness of alleging authoritice: I will set down Master Zwinglius judgement in this cause/ which he uttereth in divers places off that book/ out of which the D. hath alleged this: but most manifestly/ within les than a dowsen lines of the place/ from whence he rent this. Having inveighed against the Popish election/ both for that in it one bishop hath all the power/ and for the unworthiness of those which were chosen: he addeth/ it seemeth therefore, that there is nothing so agreeable to the ordinance of god, and to 
Zuingl. in Eccle.  the old institution, as that all the whole church of the faithful amongst a people, together with certain learned, and godly bishops, and other faithful men having skill in things, should choose a pastor. and a little after/ Let therefore these proud bishops, and foolish abbots go shake their ears, for it is convenient that the right of the election, should be in the power of the church of the faithful, instructed by the counsels off learned men. for as that matter owghte not to be in the power of one: so owghte not the rude, and unlearned multitude, challenge unto it self alone, so great weight of the election, etc.  
Let us now see whether the Ans. be any faithfuller in alleging Master Bullinger. first who denieth/ that Paul/ and Barnabas did choose elders/ and ministers there? When we give unto them the government/ and direction of the action/ there is no reasonable man can Imagine/ that we shut them out of the election. But if you think/ that because master Bullinger saith/ they chose, therefore he affirmeth/ that they chose alone/ and without the church: these words can by no means prove it/ his judgement in other places quite overthroweth it. hear therefore what M. Bull. writeth: Those which think (meaning 
In the 4. Serm. off of the 5. decade, Tit. 1, 1, Tim, 5.  the papists) that the bishops, and Archbishop have power to make ministers use these places of the scripture, Therefore I left the at Crete, that thou mighteste appoint elders town by town: and again, take heed thou lay not thy hands rashly of any: but we answer, that the apostles did not use any tyranny in the churches, nor to have themselves alone, done these things which pertained either to the election, or ordination, other men in the church shut out. For the apostles, and elders did created bishops, and elders in the church: but communicating their counsel with the churches, yea and with the consent and approving off the people: which doth appear plainly, by the election, and ordination of Mathias, etc. And there citing how Moses did communicate the choice of the magistrates with the people. he addeth/ And so no doubt did blessed Titus, although he had heard thou shalt appoint elders in Creta: yet understood, that nothing was permitted him to do privately, without the advise off the church.  
And because this place is cited also/ to prove that Master Bullinger should think/ that the Election 14. Acts/ should be made by Barnabas/ and Paul: let the Doctor hear what master Bullinger writeth in the page before/ saying/ That the lord from the beginning gave authority to the church, to choose, and ordain fit ministers, hath been showed before in the second sermon of this decade, by the example of the most eldest churches in the world jerusalem, and Antioch: whereof the one did not only ordain seven Deacons, but also Mathias the Apostle, the other did set apart to the ministry, the two notable apostles of Christ Paul and Barnabas: whereunto is added, that the churches of the Gentiles being instructed, or directed off Paul, and Barnabas, did choose by voices elders, or governors of the church. Where also he quoteth the same place off the Acts/ which is here in question. These was I constrained good reader to set down/ that thou mightest understand/ that the weapons wherwithe the D. fightethe against this cause/ are not (as he falsely pretendeth) drawn from the 
josu. 5. 3. Deut. 1. 15 Act 15. 22 & 16. 4.  godly writers/ but ministered unto him by some out of the armory of the papists/ whose they only be. The places which I alleged/ prove first that it is usual in the scripture/ to ascribe that to the principal in an action/ which is comen to them with other: then that although S. Luke/ had made no mention off the election of the church/ but only said/ that Barnabas/ and Paul chose: yet thereby could not be concluded/ that the church had no interest in the election/ but only this/ that Paul/ and Barnabas were the chief in that action. if that be ascribed unto joshua/ which he procured only/ and laid no hand unto: how much more may it be ascribed unto Paul/ and Barn. which they both procured/ and had some doing in? and therefore that example of all is most apt/ for that wherefore it is alleged. I perceive there is nothing so clear/ which the D. will not essay to darken: seeing he saith/ that it rather appeareth, that the people permitted the election of those governors, to Moses. The contrary whereof manifestly appeareth. for after that in the 9 verse/ Moses had bid them choose governors: in the next verse he saith/ that the people accepted that commandment/ and thowght of it as a thing equal. Therefore it is most untrue/ that they returned it into Moses' hands again: for than they would have answered/ that it was not meet for him/ to commit the election unto them/ but rather for the wisdom wherein he excelled/ to do it himself.  
And where the D. reasoneth off the 15. verse/ upon the words I took, etc. that phrase doth rather overthrow his purpose/ then confirm it: for it seemeth to have a relation/ to the giving/ and presenting of those which they they had chosen. And the very same Phrase is used afterwards in the 23. vers. of the spies which were sent to spy the land: which notwithstanding were not only sent off Moses'/ but off the people also/ as appeareth in the 22. verse/ and in the book of numbers: where the lord doth not 
13. Num. vers. 3.  only attribute/ this sending off spies/ unto Moses: but unto the people. Moses' gave no further authority unto them: then they which in ecclesiastical elections/ ordain those which were chosen before/ and confirm the elections which are made. Therefore as those ordinations exclude not the authority of election: so this confirmation of Moses'/ did not devour that power of election/ which he had gived them: but their elections/ and his confirmation/ made up a full creation of those governors. touching the false accusation of pushing at the magistrate/ I have answered.  
Those verses of the 22. and 23. of the 25. Acts which you allege/ show who bore the swate/ in the making of that decree: But yet in that the letters were written in the churches/ and not only in the apostles/ and Elders names: and for that the decree 
ver. 23. ver. 25.  is ascribed unto them/ by whom the letters are subscribed: it is manifest/ that that consent/ and subscription of the people/ occupied some room in that decree. Neither is that alleged out of M. Calu. any thing against that I said/ that the people had to do in it/ and gave consent: but giveth as much to the church as I/ in saying/ the church committed the matter unto the decision of the apostles, and Doctors: as though it belonged unto the church/ and the church/ had put it over unto them. It is enough for me/ that the church's subscription was there/ and that not for a cipher. Therefore although S. Luke/ for shortness sake did call it the decree off the apostles/ and Elders: yet S. Paul which gave them to the churches/ and which in other places standeth so much upon the authority of the churches/ to stop the mouth off the contentious: did not (by all likelihood) omit the authority of the church/ to give them the more grace with the churches/ unto the which he delivered them.  
The Ans. which will prove nothing himself/ but off whom we must take all most allthings at his bore word/ hath notwithstanding a great grace in setting me to prove all things/ 
Institut. li. 4. ca 3. s. 15. The former decade. Livy 2. lib. ab urbe. Liu. 3. li. ab urbe. Divi. 3. p. 158.  be they never so manifest. Let him then understand/ that this which he requireth proof off/ is confirmed by the authority of master Cal. and master Bulling. The manner of speech also is in Livy: where the consul is said to set up an other consul/ into the place of him which was dead: when he did it not by his own authority only/ but by voices of the Senate/ and people.  
If the Answ. could have first given his reader a drink off the river of forgetfulness, to have made him forget what he ought to prove/ peradventure this talk off his might have some end: but if he carry in mind that he hath to prove/ that almost all ecclesiastical writers do affirm, the word liftihg up of hands to be used in the scriptures, for the solemn manner of ordaining ministers 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  by imposition of hands, and not for the election by voices: I say though he carry this in mind/ he shall perceive easily/ how idle for the most part/ this talk is. And verily all these authorities here brought/ are either vain: or directly against himself: or in sufficient to prove that/ which he undertaketh. For to what purpose are here alleged/ two places out of master Caluin/ two Canons given to the apostles/ and the Testimony of Jerome? They prove that lftiing up of hands, is taken in ecclesiastical writers 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  for imposition of hands/ which is confessed by me in plain words: But to the performance of your promise/ that almost all the ecclesiastical writers affirm, that this word is so taken in scripture: yet there is not one syllable. In this rank also off idle testimonies/ is that whole section of master Gualther. For I confessed him to think/ that the word was so taken: but yet so that withal/ he joineth the election of the people by voices: Which the Answ. would by that signification of the word/ overthrow. So that all these brought in off the D. look another way/ then he would have them.  
That the Canons attributed unto the apostles/ make not to prove the sole election of a bishop/ shallbe discussed after: here it is only sufficient to have showed/ that they make not to prove that which the Ans. alleged them for. Wherein I marvel also what he meaneth/ to ask leave of me that it may be as lawful for him to use them, as it is for me: as if I had used them otherwise/ then I ought. I never used them as the natural canons of the apostles/ I have showed that they are not/ nor can not be theirs: but as the Canons of other Counsels where amongst the bad/ there are found some good. And I never used them/ but where I confirmed by Testimony of the word of God/ that which I bring them witness for. Therefore this phrase being used thrice/ or four times/ without all occasion: argueth him to be a vain trifler/ which because he hath nothing to answer/ giveth himself the bridle to forge/ and surmise all manner of untrwthes. And where by this preface/ it seemeth the man would have stricken this matter/ as dead as a door nail: yet having leave to use them/ he hath not so much as once come near unto the matter▪ only he hath gained some few lines/ to increase his confused heap.  
The next rank is of those/ which are not only not profitable/ but directly hurtful unto his cause. In which number is the witness of Master Bull. that word which signifieth lifting up of hands, is so placed that we may understand, either that they were chosen by voice off the people, or ordained by laying on of hands: especially if he had added the four next words/ I think both were done Whereby appeareth that Master Bullingers' opinion is/ that both the churches chose by voices/ and the apostles laid on their hands/ which directly overthroweth the Answ. For his answer is such/ that unless the word do only signify there the ceremony of imposition of hands/ and not the election by voices: it goeth to the ground. therefore Master Bulling. saying/ that both were done in this place: there could be no flatter testimony against him/ then it.  
And where he citeth Master Bullinger/ that he is elected 
In 5. sect. 159. pag.  by common suffrages of the People, which is chosen by the testimony of the best: I know good reader thou merueileste/ not/ that it cometh out of time/ for that is his ordinary: but dost thou not marvel/ what mystical rhetoric hath separated so far a sunder/ this sentence from the other which he before alleged? Leave to marvel/ there is no great art in it/ but there 
In the same diuis. 2. se. p. 158 I think both were done.  is some craft. For if thou give heed unto him/ it may appear it was only to cover the treachery which he used/ in taking both that which goeth before/ and that which cometh after: leving quite out those words by me alleged/ which stand in the myiddest off those two sentences/ maring his whole market. And because it would have to palpably appeared/ if he had done it in one/ and the same place: he maketh them to come as it were stranger's out off two several country's/ that devil hard together.  
For the sentence itself/ what would he trow you conclude? That the bishop must have the election? if it be not that/ I know not wherefore it is brought. If he mean to use it therun to: then must off necessity Master Bullinger speak thus/ that he is elected by the common suffrages of the people/ which is approved by the testimony of the best bishops. Do you laugh at these things/ when the D. is in so good earnest? seeing he seeth that both the testimony of the Scripture/ and writer's old/ and new (Papists only excepted) give interest of election unto the people: yet rather than it should fall from the bishops/ he maketh a metamorphosis/ and change off the Bishops into the people. The meaning of Master Bullinger (if any could be so ignorant as not to understand) is/ that the faithful only have interest in the election of the church: and that the Papists have not/ nor ought not to have to do in it/ neither any other heretics/ and schismatics from the church. Whatsoever it be/ it can be by no means drawn to prejudice the church's interest/ which he doth so plainly both here/ and else where affirm.  
And where it is supposed/ that the church hath leave to oppose against him that is to be elected: I have showed how manifest mockery it is/ off the church off God. As for that which is said off master Bulling. and Master Caluin jointly/ that they have affirmed off the signification of the word as much as he: it is a manifest untrwthe. For master Caluin never affirmed/ that the scripture ever used that word, to note the ceremony off laying on of hands. Officer M. Bullinger it hath been before spoken.  
There followeth in this second rank Oecunemius/ whose testimony is so flat against the Ans. signification off the word lifting up of hands, and therefore also against the sole election of the bishop: as a clearer could not be required. His words be these/ it is to be noted, that the disciples with fasting, and 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  prayers did make elections by voices. Now seeing by the word disciples Saint Luke/ and the Scoliast following him/ continually through the story of the Acts/ note the people which believed: it is manifest that the Scoliaste doth both conclude upon this place/ that the people did choose: and concludethe it also of the word/ lifting up of hands. Whether in attributing the same word unto Paul/ and Barnab. he mean thereby the ceremony of imposition of hands: I will not (as in a thing not worth the travail) stand. it is enough for me to have showed/ how this testimony maketh directly against that/ which the Doctor affirmeth: that is to say/ that the word lifting up of hands signifieth in this place off the Acts/ only the ceremony off laying on of hands. For if it signify both the election by voices/ and the ceremony off laying on of hands: then our cause standeth as sure/ as if it only signified the election by voices.  
And to this testimony of the Scoliaste agreeth the same Ignatius/ 
Ad Philadelph. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  that the Ans. in his former book maketh so great account off: who writeth thus/ it is meet that you as those which be the church of god, should choose by voices your bishop. Whereby not only appeareth/ that that author will have the church choose her minister: but also how this word is used of him in the proper signification/ to note the election which is made by voices. chrysostom remaineth/ which taking the word for the imposition of hands/ doth not exclude the natural signification. Brentius translating Chrysost. had followed that sense I set down: if the D. can confute him by the greek example/ he is worthy of credit.  
Let us now see what the Ans. hath to say against those reasons/ whereby I show that S. Luke by lifting up of hands, meant properly the election by voices. I may not (saith he) teach the holy ghost to speak: God forbidden I should go about it. But shall not he which made the mouth speak/ and he which teacheth all other to speak properly/ speak properly himself? I do not therefore teach the holy ghost to speak, which apply his words to make them agreed with the things they signify: but your opinion supposeth want of knowledge of the tongue in the holy ghost/ which would have him signify laying down/ by lifting up. And where you say I trifle, because he that layeth on his hands, must first lift them up, or ever he can lay them on: who trifleth in this point let all judge. For who doth not understand/ that the name is usually given off the principal/ and nearest action wherwithe it is done: and not of those actions which are far off/ accidental/ or for the cause/ and sake of the principal. And it is all on/ as if a man should call the taking off a knife into his hand/ cutting off bread: because he that cutteth bread/ must before take the knife into his hand.  
How be it/ if there were the same manner off laying on of hands in the primitive church/ which is in popery/ and with us/ where he that is chosen kneeleth on his knees/ to receive the bishops laying on of hands: it is so far from any need to lift up his hand/ or ever he can lay it on: that unless he carry his hands very unmannerly/ like a pair of hanging sleeves: he must let them down/ or ever he can can lay them on the head of him which is chosen. Therefore although an other might use this poor shift: yet you which have undertaken to defend whatsoever the bishops generally do in their elections/ have (if I should deal hardly with you) lost this advantage.  
It is nothing with the A. that the 70. interpreters of the old Testament/ nor that S Paul/ and Luke himself/ utter the laying on of hands by other words. These are bore conjectures being alleged against him: but ye shall hear by and by/ where he hath not half such a reason/ the great bell go with certainly, and manifestly. Howbeit although these seem bore conjectures to him: it must needs have weight with those/ that have their senses well acquainted with the holy scripture. For they know that the writers of the new testament/ frame themselves unto the manner of speech of the old/ when they speak off the same things: and for the gentiles sake which had knowledge of the translation of the seventy interpreters/ they keep them so carefully to that: that sometimes they use it/ unless it be not in every point so just/ and so answerable unto the truth of the Hebrew/ as might have been. Which thing done off all those especially/ which laboured in the tillage of the Gentiles/ amongst whom S. Luke (S. Paul's Companion) was: whosoever considereth must needs confess/ that this conjecture is not so bore as he maketh it.  
I ask if any man can reasonably think/ that in one and the same ceremony/ comen aswell unto us off the New Testament/ as those off the old/ Saint Luke would leave both the manner of speech of the Hebrews/ and the words of the 70 interpreters: to take a strange phrase from the one/ and divers words from the other? or whether he would leave the phrase/ and words which the jews/ and gentiles were acquainted with: to use a phrase which the jews never hard of/ and a word which was in that signification/ unknown unto the Gentiles? off all which when there is no one/ which hath not force to persuade this sentence: so the last is such/ that it leaveth no place unto any resistance. For when the holy ghost speaketh with the tongues of men/ and to their understanding: if by this word lifting up of hands, he had signified a laying on of hands: he could not have been understanded/ seeing that word was of no such signification in that tongue.  
And where he saith/ I oppose my bore conjectures, to improve so many learned men's judgements: I have showed how he hath over told. I have no where reasoned against you/ as if you should affirm that by that word, the laying of on hands, should be ment. Therefore if you had spared that cavil/ you might have been clear of two more errors which you are fallen into/ by affirming partly/ that S. Luke by the word lifting up of hands, signifieth the whole solemnity of creating ministers (which can not be true/ seeing he expresseth two other parts of it/ which are prayer/ and fasting) partly in affirming/ that he doth in the words off laying on of hands all ways understand, the bore laying on of hands only: when as in two of those places 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 9 Act. 17. 19 Act. 6. 8. Act. 15.  which I have alleged/ it may appear/ that by those words is noted/ not only the putting on of hands: but also the prayers which were made/ for the receiving off the gifts of the holy ghost. Which thing expressed in an other place to have been done by Peter/ and john/ we must esteem observed/ at othertymes.  
If I had not brought the place off the Acts/ the A. had 
10. Act. 41.  had nothing to say/ to that I alleged of Saint Luke's borrowing this phrase/ not off those which came many years after: but of those which were before. But seeing destitute of your own/ you are entered upon my possession/ against my will/ and so also that you will thrust me out: let it be sufficient/ that you have eased your self here a while. I say therefore/ that this place maketh against you/ in that this word in that place/ signifieth not a laying on of hands upon the heads of the chosen: 
Luk. 6. 13. Math. 28. 19  but a chusinge by voices/ considering that we read plainly/ that he chose his apostles by voice.  
Let us hear now how it maketh against us. first because the word is not there taken, for lifting up of hands: but for appoinctinge and ordaining. As who should say it is not usual unto the scripture/ and to all speeches/ by figure in one part to note the whole: and therefore S. Luke by that one form of election/ passed by the céremonie off lifting up of hands/ notethe this election which was made by voce/ off our Saviour Christ. it may be also applied unto other elections/ wherein by going from one side to another/ or by writing his voice in a table/ the consent off the chooser is uttered. So doth the scripture by bonds/ and chain/ 
2. Tim. 1. 16. Act. 28. 16. & 30:  which are particular kinds of restraint: note all manner of restraincte of liberty/ although a man have neither bonds/ nor chains a bout him. So that that which is so often said in the gospel simply/ off our Saviour Christ's choosing his apostles: S. Luke did here in figure/ not without great grace utter.  
Where you say/ that by this means it signifieth not to ordain by suffrages: in deed in this place it can not/ considering that our Saviour Christ was but one. But where you would conclude 
Act. 14.  thereof/ that Paul, and Barnabas by their voices only chose the ministers, and elders: It is further a sunder/ then ever you can set together. here you must be admonished/ that where the most of your witnesses did forsake you before: you beheere forsaken of them all. For there is never a one of the new writers especially/ named of us both: but upon that place off the Aceses/ hath in plain words approved the election by the church.  
Secondly the person of our Saviour Christ which chose/ with whom none might be joined in commission/ and the person of the apostles/ which could not be chosen of any but of God: did sufficiently of themselves/ without further addition/ argue the sole election of our Saviour Christ. But in the 14. Acts/ seeing neither the apostles which did choose/ were such as might not be accompanied off the church/ nor the ministers that were chosen off such degree/ as might not likewise fall into the choice of the church: and considering also that all the elections of the ministery spoken off before/ in which the apostles had to do/ were by consent of the church: it is clear that if S. Luke's meaning had been/ to tie this election as straight unto Pau. and Barn. as the other to our Sau. Christ: he would have put in words which might as clearly have declared that meaning in this/ as the circumstances of the persons do in the other.  
Thirdly if this word which notethe the choice by voices/ should be restrained unto Paul/ and Barnabas: then also the word which declareth that they prayed should only be restrained 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  unto them: for as that is given unto them/ so is this. Now if it be absurd to say/ that in those public prayers Paul/ and Barnabas only prayed: it is as absurd to say/ that they only chose: and the same may be said off fasting. For that which followeth 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  with fastings, is all one as if he had said/ fasting, saving only that S. Luke for elegancy sake/ and to a void the multitude of participles coming so thick/ turned the verb into the noun. so that for so much as Paul/ and Barnabas did not only fast/ but the church also: it must follow that they chose not only/ but the church with them. Therefore as S. Luke in saying that Paul/ and Barnabas prayed, and fasted, meaneth not that they prayed and fasted only/ but that they went before the rest/ in governing those Ecclesiastical actions: even so in saying that they chose by voices, he meaneth not that they chose alone without the church/ but that they guided/ and directed the judgements of the church. last of all/ seeing that all the twelve 
Act. 1. Act. 6.  together/ would not enterprise to do any thing of their private authority/ without consent of the church: much less can it be thought/ that Paul/ and Barnab. would attempt it.  
Hereto make an end of this dispute/ I will answer that which is brought off this word p. 163. And first I deny that ever I said/ that this word by itself, without joining any thing unto it, signifieth election of many by voices. for it can not signify any thing/ unless it be joined with something. These words (of the churches) although they declare of whom the election was made: 
2. Cor. 8. 19  yet they are not added to note the manner of the election/ as the word Act. 14. but to give credit unto the ambassadors/ with the churches unto which they went/ that they might safely commit their money unto them/ for the behoove of the church of jerusalem. Therefore it is nothing you allege/ that this addition of the churches had been needles, if the word lifting up of hands, had signified off itself an election by voices. For saint Paul should not have to the full/ advanced their credit with the churches: if he had given only to understand/ that they were chosen by voices of many: considering that they were chosen/ not only by the voices of many men: but by the voices of many churches. whereupon I conclude/ that S. Luke Act. 14. used that word as the Grecians before him/ for election by suffrages: and withal put him in mind/ that his certain and manifest things, have neither ground to stand on/ nor light to show them by.  
There are but two communities/ one anabaptistical which 
Diuis. 4, pag, 161,  maketh equality of all things/ which is/ and ever was unlawful; the other Christian/ which provideth for need of those/ which have not wherewith to find themselves/ which is/ and owghte to be perpetual/ amongst all Christians. Therefore you can not escape with this circuit of words/ for either that community in the Acts/ was such as owghte to be amongst us/ which you deny/ and propound as an absurd thing: or else it was anabaptistical/ which is blasphemous against the spirit off God.  
although men may be good Christians without selling their lands, and distributing of the price of them unto those which have need: yet they can not be good Christians/ if for necessary relief of the poor of the church weroff they are/ they be not content to cell (the need so requirring) even their lands. And such was the estate of the church of jerusalem/ where there were so many poor/ and so few rich/ that the want of those which had not/ with much a do was supplied by sale of lands/ and houses of them/ that had such possessions. Which extreme poverty may easily be seen in other places/ where not able to be furnished of the rich of that church/ it was feign to be supplied by divers other. Unto 
Act. 11 19 Rom. 15. 25. 2. Cor. 8.  the reasons alleged out of S. Paul/ to prove that the same community is commanded of him to all Christians: you answer not one word. Unto the which I will add this/ that I doubt not but that which was done there/ was so far from oxtraordinarie doing: that it was done by the commandment of God in the law/ where the lord chargeth the Israelites/ that there should be no beggars amongst them For Saint Luke 
Deutr. 15. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  seemeth to have alluded to that place/ when he saith/ there was no needy amongst them: which expresseth most aptly/ the Hebrew word which Moses useth.  
That which I browghte off Ananias, and Saphira, was to prove there was no such community amongst them as your answer supposed/ and to glaze up the the windows of Anabaptistry/ which you had opened. And surely if the anabaptists had (as they neither have/ nor can have) warrant of their community/ by this example of the most purest/ and ancientest church/ and in deed then the only church in the world/ approved by all the apostles replenished with the spirit of God: they should have stronger hold then M. D. should ever be able to pull from them. I do not think you favour the Anabaptistes' community, but partly seduced of others/ and partly overcaried with the violence of your affections: you are vnawars fallen into that errer/ whereby the Anabaptistes' ground it.  
Where I said/ that all off the church did not cell their possessions: I confess the word possession/ was not so advisedly put/ seeing thereby is properly signified house/ and land/ and those which we call unmovable goods: which Saint Luke saith were sold off as many as had them. But yet nothing falleth of that for which I did alleged it: and it is rather thereby confirmed. For shewing that all owners of house/ and land did cell them/ and not that every one which had other goods did the like: thereby is given to understand/ that not every one which had monay/ or other movables/ brought them unto the apostles.  
The Adm. reason you are not able to stir. For if S. Paul For avoiding suspicion in a monay matter, did communicate the election with 
Divi. 5. p. 163. 2. Co. 8. 19  the churches: why should he not to avoid suspicion, of partiality/ ambition/ and tyranny/ communicate with them the election of the ministers? Surely he was as far from suspicion of this covetous treachery with all men: as from suspicion of these faults. And so much farther/ as such excellent wits/ and learning as was in him/ be easilier overcome off those other vices/ then off this pilfering off monay: which the grosser/ and unlearned sort for the most part offend in. Nam why should not S. Paul be in fear off this monay suspicion/ if he had taken upon him the election of the ministers/ shutting out the churches? Do you think that those which would have done him that injury/ to think that he would have turned the church money unto his 
Act. 20. 34.  own use (which often times with his own hand earned both his own living/ and others too/ which refused the wages which he might justly have challenged) would not also have suspected him off the same fault/ if he had chosen the ministers at his pleasure/ without consent off the church? Or do you not think that there are many/ which suspect divers of the bishops that way: which say that for a dish of fruit of the golden gaiffe/ they lease out/ and make all manner of merchandise of the lords orchards: that he which hath no gift in his heart/ yet if he have a gift in his hand/ need no other key to open the church door/ and enter into a benefice? If therefore for the avoiding of suspicion of corruption by money/ it was needful for Saint Paul/ to communicate the election of such ministers with the church: how much more was it needful/ for the avoiding off both the suspicion of that vice/ and divers others/ he should do the like in the ordinary ministers? And if that where needful in S. Paul/ for upholding off his honest estimation to the greater fruit of the gospel: I say as I said/ what archbishop shall dare take upon him the making off a minister, without consent off the church? For if Saint Paul's innocency of life/ which (as the diamonte a pebble stone) might shame all the archbishops that live this day/ had need off this aid: they must off necessirie run into suspicion of all those vices/ which contemning the judgement of the churches/ make such elections of their own authority.  
Where you say/ that Saint Paul might have chosen them himself, if he would: I say that it is untrue/ and a manifest begging of that in controversy. And to say so is asmuch/ as if you had said: he might have hazarded his good estimation if he would/ and left it at the curteousye of quarrelers/ which sowghte every occasion of speaking evil of his ministery Beside that you must understand/ that in the government of the churches/ the apostles were governed by the spirit of God: whose counsel when this was/ it was no more lawful for him to refuse it/ them to disobey the lord. Touching the untruth he chargeth me with/ in that I said/ 
In his 3. Tr. 1. c. d. 4.  the church chose 1. Act. it is before answered. And it is a vain quarrel of the A. that there was no election of the church, because an apostle may not be chosen by men. As though I had not set down before/ when I spoke off that election/ that I mean not the choice/ which was made off one out of those two: but the choice of those two out of the whole church: not that choice which determined/ the Apostellshipp/ but which determined/ who they should stand for the apostleship. And if no election of the church can be said to have been in the first of the Acts/ because an apostle can not be chosen off any/ but off God alone: then can not the apostles (which the D. affirmeth) be said to have chosen Mathias and Barnabas/ out of the rest of the church.  
In the 1. 2. 3. sections of this division/ he hath filled up almost 
Diu. 6. p. 164.  a whole side/ wherein there is nothing at all/ which either is not gone before/ or cometh not after/ and so grossly repeated/ without either new coat/ or new colour: that I marvel he is not ashamed. For the places Act. 1. 6. 14. for that also Cor. 8. 2. I have replied before: to the other/ answer shall be made in their places. Now then to begin with the falsifying you charge me with/ I say that although I have not given you the same words: yet I have given you the same weight/ and I acknowledge you for no M. of the tongue/ by whose authority I should be bound/ to the same words which you use. I have not taken you/ as you do me at the worst: but I have given your words a favorabler meaning/ then they deserve/ because I perceived that you ment to comprehend Cyprians times/ unless your words even to Cyprians time, would not so well bear it. it is disputed whether this word until, or unto, doth shut out/ or shut in the time whereof it is spoken: but there was never I think any/ that dowbted whether that saying in common speech/ might be stretched out/ beyond that time whereunto it is particularly applied. Notwithstanding your words are yet more restreintive. For it restraineth more to say/ even to such a time: then to say simply/ until such a time. for that increase off the word even, maketh the wall of separation higher.  
But now he seeth the untrwthe off this saying/ he casteth it upon Master Musc. and he must bear the weight of it. But such most gross ignorance of the estate of the primitive church/ was far from him. And Master Musc. cleareth himself off it well. For when he saith/ that the election of the minister by the voices of the church, endured unto Cyprians time: he meaneth not as the D. to put difference between the elections made by the people/ and the bishop: but showeth only a difference/ between elections made by consent off the people/ without the magistrate: and between the elections made by the consent of the people/ with the confirmation of the Magistrate. And that this is his meaning/ it may easily appear. For pursuing the proof of that election by the church without the magistrate/ alleging certain Canons thus he concludeth. After this sort therefore were the Elders, bishops, and deacons in time's paste 
Muscu. de elect. & ord.  chosen: which fashion they still retained, until the time of Christian magistrates, whose consent unto the election of the bishops, was required. Therefore this absurdity being the Ans. own/ he must be content to bear it.  
It maketh no matter that this form of election, was not in some few churches of the world in Cyprians time: neither is it marvel. although in some places at that time/ they had departed from the institution of the Apostolical church. If it be proved that Cyprian teachethe/ that it ought to be so/ and that it is God's ordinance: if all the churches had declined from it/ as there were very few: Cyprian must needs by that sentence/ disallow them. although I must also admonish you/ that if those few examples in Cyprians time could prejudice the truth: yet your bishop's election is not confirmed thereby. for it might be done by the eldership of the church/ by assembly of many bishops. most unlikeste is it off all other/ that it was done at the pleasure off one bishop. Let us therefore come to examine Cyprians judgement/ and see whether I have reported truly of him.  
first/ as a trewante loath to go to school/ seeketh the furthest way: so the A. afraid of the light of Cyprian'S words/ maketh entrance into this sentence by half a score lines/ which might have been in one. Hear good reader as the A calleth for thy diligence/ so if if give a little heed: thou shalt see such open/ and violente perverting/ as could not be done without crack off conscience.  
first therefore let us hold that (which I think is accorded off both parts) that Cyprians purpose is to withdraw the people/ from communicating with the ministry of those/ which had fallen from the gospel unto Idolatry. To the confirmation whereof when he had alleged/ the grievousness of that crime: he addeth/ especially seeing the people have power to choose worthy, and to refuse unworthy ministers. As if he should say/ if it were not in your power/ to refuse those unworthy ministers/ you might have some excuse: or if being in your power to refuse the unworthy/ you had not also power to choose another worthy/ you might have likewise somewhat for excuse. For you might allege peradventure/ that it were better to keep him still/ then to be with out altogether/ or to have another as evil/ or worse than he. but seeing you have both power to refuse the unworthily/ and to a choose another: there must needs befaulte. That this is the meaning of Cyprian/ and his argument wherewith he calleth them back/ from communicating with the ministry of those which had fallen: all which can set the nominative case/ and verb together/ must needs understand.  
Now let us see whether the exposition of the Ans. will 
lib. 1. Ep. 4:  maintain this saying. To accord him and Cyprian/ we must first expound these words to have power to choose, and to have power to refuse, to be to stand by while they be chosen, or refused. Which master D. gatherethe belike/ because Cyprian saith/ the election must be had the people being present. In deed it appeareth the manner was then/ that he that was to be chosen/ was before them: but is it a good reason/ that Cyprian would have the people present at the election/ therefore he would not have them to choose? seeing he had said immediately before/ that they had power to choose. It is well therefore/ that he added/ that it ought to be done by their judgement: so that if the church judged him not meet/ he ought not to be minister. And further addeth (which the D. is afraid of/ and which he shamefully denieth in state words) by their voices.  
The examples out off the Acts wherewith he bringeth light 
Divi. 1. p. 133.  unto that which he thawghte/ are touched before: and amongst others by the election of the Deacons/ which because the D. can not deny/ but it was by the church: he hath left it clean forth. and yet most plainly he showeth this by example of an election/ which was lately made in the church whereunto he writeth: saying/ which we see to have been done with you, in the ordeininge off our fellow in office Sabinus: that the bishopric should be given him, by the voice off the whole brother hood and by the judgement of those bishops which were present, and which had written unto you of him, etc.  
Thus therforey may be reasoned/ that was the ordinance of God which Cyp. taught to have been practised by those examples (for he still coupleth them together with his doctrine given before/ and grounded out of the book of numbers): But he taught that in these examples the people were not only present at the choice/ but also gave their voices: therefore it was God's ordinance/ not only that that the people should be present/ but also that they should choose.  
And here it is again to be observed/ that this is another off the popish shifts. for unto Luther (which allegeth that the people ought to choose there minister/ lest the church should 
Pig. hierarch. 2. lib 9 cap. 5 li. 10. c. 16. contr. Hos. 1. li. de legit. iudic.  despise/ or hath him which is thrust upon it/ whilst it might not have him whom it desired) Pighius answereth that the meaning of those words be/ that the people should be present/ and bear witness: and the same answer is made by other Papists/ to other testimonies which are brought. This by the way that it may be known/ from whence the Ans. provision cometh.  
Now to proceed: Where he saith/ that the people had no voices in Eleazar's election: I ask him how he proveth that. If he answer because it is not mentioned in the scripture/ he hath answered himself more than twenty times/ when he saith/ that it is an evil argument to reason negatively off the scriptures. Let him now take this answer/ That there was no like necessity of examining Eleazar's ministry by voices/ as there is off other ecclesiastical electione: forsomuch as he was chosen by the voice of God/ which 
20. Nom. 25.  could not be deceived. But Cyprian did well see/ that if the lord would not have the judgement of the church passed by in those/ which he himself had chosen by his voice from heaven: much less would he have/ any minister thrust upon the church against her will/ in elections which are made by men/ without such special direction.  
Now as this interpretation of the A. is directly against the words of Cyprian/ directly against his meaning showed forth by practice/ and examples: so doth it directly overthrow the whole scope/ which Cyprian allegeth those words for: which is/ that he might thereby withdraw the churches/ from communicating with the ministery of those which had fallen/ seeing they might both put them out/ and choose other in their places. For if he ment the church should stand by to see who were chosen/ and to object against him if need required (albeit not thus much was ever observed of our bishops) tell me who are they Cyprian meant should choose? magistrate there was none/ The eldership the D. dare not say/ for he trembleth at the very name of it: I dare say his meaning is/ to gratify the bishop with this morsel/ but it will choke him if he swallow it. It is the portion of a number/ and therefore if it could be carried from the church: It must come unto the bishops that devil round about that church/ where the election is to be made. And if the election/ and deprivation by Cyprians mind/ be in their hands: how hath the people power to choose/ and refuse? For if they would/ they could neither deprive the present incumbente/ nor depriving him choose another. Any of these things overthroweth Cyprians drift/ and armeth the people with replies against his exhortation: namely that they communicated with their polluted minister/ because it is not in them to depose him/ but in the bishops round about: it is not in them to choose another/ but in the bishops. Therefore his reprehension/ and exhortation should have been directed against the bishops/ and not against them. And so it is manifest/ both by the words/ and whole drift of Cyprian: that his judgement was/ that by the ordinance of God in Ecclesiastical elections/ the consent/ and judgement of the church is necessary.  
The Cuckoo is here come again: for look the D. book/ 
Diuis. 7. pa. 167. pa. 136. s. 3. 4. & pa. 163 sec. 1.  and you shall see either the same words/ or at lest the same matter without any addition/ Which are here in the 1. 2. 3. 4. sect. off this divis. In the 164. and 165. pag. sect. 1. 2. You have it set before you almost all again. This is not Coleworts twice/ but thrice sodden. It behoveth that he imagine a great famine of learned writings/ that dare thus abuse the cares/ and leisure of his reader.  
Touching the variety of Elections/ which he citeth out of M. Caluin/ unless as unnatural women do their children conceived in adultery/ he purpose to make away with his cause: I know not what he should mean/ to offer it thus into the hands of her enemies. For he writeth thus in that place alleged. In old time 
Inst. li. 4. ca 4. s. 10  there was none received, not so much as in to the number of clerks, without the consent off the people: so that Cyprian doth diligently excuse himself, that he had appointed Autelius a reader without advise off the church. And so rehearsing Cyprians words/ after he addeth: But becawse in those smaller exercises, there was no great danger, for that both they were in daily trial, and the function was not great: the consent off the people ceased to be asked. And by those small exercises it must needs be/ he meaneth the Acoluthes/ the Exorcists/ and the Readers: which may appear to have been in 
1. l. Epi. 3. 3 li. 22 4. li. 7. Inst. 4. li. 4. c. 10. s.  Cyprians time by his Epistles. And may yet better appear/ whereas Master Caluin (shewing the cause/ why the people was not so careful in that behalf off retaining their right) saith/ For there was none made subdeacon, which under that severity of discipline that was then, had not given long experience of himself in the clerkshipp: and after he was tried in the subdeaconshippe, he was made deacon. So that it is manifest/ that by the order off Clerks there he meaneth those/ which were under the degree of a subdeacon.  
He saith also/ that afterwards the people did permit the judgement, and choice of other orders likewise unto the bishop, and elders, except the bishopric, or when any new elders were appointed. where first it maketh directly against you/ that in times passed not so much as a poor Exorciste/ or reader was chosen/ without the consent off the people. Secondly/ that he saith Cyprian did excuse himself unto the people/ that he had chosen Aurelius: implying thereby that although he had some reason/ to lead him to do so: yet he was in the people's danger. Thirdly/ that it was the people's right/ in that they permitted this power unto others. Fourthly/ that this right was given to the elders/ and not to the bishop alone/ as you would have it. last of all/ that both the choice of the bishop/ and elder remained in the power off the people. Wherefore you untrwly report/ when you say/ that the people committed the choice unto the bishops, and elders: except it were in the election of the bishop. For although he say so/ immediately after he addeth. Except peradventure new elders were appointed to the parishes: for then the multitude of the place, must namely consent. And after he saith/ although in the elders always the consent off the citizen's was required. Hitherto appeareth/ that all the elections 
Inst. li. 4. cap. 5. sc. 3.  were made by consent off the people: if otherwise/ by their curteousie/ or (as master Caluin in an other place note thee) negligence.  
Where the D. addeth/ And some times only the minister did first choose, and then offer those whom he had chosen to the magistrate, who ratified the election if he liked it, if not chose other, etc.: In deed here is an election without the consent off the people/ but what is that & caetera? belike some stranger/ which pertaineth not to this matter. Mark then again good reader/ that if this were his own doing: there was never such a clypper off koine/ as he of the writings of Godly men. For it followeth even in the same sentence/ wherein the whole weight of the cause doth consist/ Then the matter was browghte to the multitude, which althowghe it were not bound unto those foreiudgements: yet thereby was able to make the les tumult. or if the people did begin, that was only to know whom they did most desire: And when the people's voices were heard, then in the end thee clergy chose. So that neither the clerks could set in the ministery, who they listed: nor it was not necessary to obey the foolish desires off the people. Could there be any plainer words/ then that the people was not bound by that both the elders/ and the magistrate had done/ but were yet at their choice/ if they liked not the chosen? After Master Caluin saith/ that this manner of election by the ministers, magistrates, and people was in force in pope Gregory's time: and like to have continued long after.  
of your Canons here alleged one only excepted/ which maketh nothing for you: the rest make directly against you. For the canon attributed to the apostles it is there said/ that if a bishop chosen unto a church, do not receive it: he shall be separated from the communion, until he take it But if it be through the naughtiness of the people, which will not receive him: then he shall remain bishop still, and the clergy shall be separated from the communion, because they tawght their people no better to obey. Where appeareth/ that the bishop could not enter/ unless the people were willing. And where the canon would have him bishop still: it meaneth that he should retain the name of a bishop/ because he was put by without his fault. Which thing was granted to Miletius/ to whom the Council 
Socr. 1. 9 cap.▪ Theodor. ●. lib. 9 c.  of Nice in the synodal Epistle/ gave the naked name of a bishop.  
In the Ancyran Council which you allege/ there is the same: saving only that it is more directly against you. For there the Council willeth the bishop appointed unto a church/ if it will not receive him to return unto his old place of eldership/ where he was before. The self same doth the Canon Which you allege out of the Council of Antioch/ confirm. So that these three Canons can tell the bishop/ appointed by other bishops of the province/ no other remedy if he be refused off the people: but to quiet himself and return to his old place of eldership. And that you may know how contrary always master Calu. is/ unto the Ans. observe that off the same Council of Antioch/ and no doubt of the same Canon/ which the D. gathereth/ that the church hath nothing to do in the election: Master Caluin gathereth/ that the Council ordained, that none should be thrust 
lib. 4. Instit. c. 4. sect. 11.  upon the people against their william.  
The 12. Canon off the Council of Laodicea/ in saying that a bishop owghte not to be appointed to the government of the church, beside the judgement of the Metropolytan, and other bishops hard by: giveth to understand/ that as they had a stroke in that election/ so there were other that had to do beside them. For otherwise it would not have spoken so koldly of it: For it saith not/ that the Metrapolitaine/ and other Bishops/ should only appoint a bishop: no not so much as that they should appoint/ but only that the Bishop should not be appointed/ without them.  
The 13. Canon/ which provideth that it should not be permitted unto the people, to make election of the minister: agrethe well with the 16. Canon off the Council of Antioch. Which as it would not have a bishop put upon the churches otherwise froward/ without their consent (as hath been showed): so will it not/ that those which the churches had chosen without the iudgemen of the bishops round about/ should stand in force. And if either Master Caluin/ or Master Beza have any credit with you/ you have their interpretation/ that the meaning of the Council was not/ to shut out the consent off the 
Cal. Inst: 4. li. 4. c. sec. 12. & upon the 14. Act. Beza confess. ca 5. Art. 35.  church: but only to provide/ that the ministers/ and elders should have direction/ as best able to judge off the fitness of him that should be chosen. If they have no credit with you/ yet whether ye w●l● or no it may manifestly be showed/ that the canons meaning was not to shut out the people/ by other Counsels/ off Nice/ off Constantinople/ off Toled/ off Cartage/ alleged in the former book. whereof some going before/ and some coming hard after/ with such clear testimony of the people's consent in the election: decleare sufficiently/ that the Council of Laodicea cannot be thought/ to have had any such meaning/ as you suppose. but that there be no controversy/ I will add to them the testimony of such/ whereby shall appear/ not only what the judgement off those Counsels are: but what was both the customen off the churches/ and the judgement of other Counsels from time/ to time in this behalf. In the Council of Paris it was thus decreed/ 
2. Tom. Concil. can. 8.  And because in certain things the old custom is neglected, and the decrees off the Canons are broken: it is our decree that according to the old custom, the Canons of the decrees be observed. Let none be ordained bishop, against the will of the citizen's: but he whom the election of the people, and off the clerks with most full consent hath required. Neither by the commandment of the prince, neither by any other condition, let him be thrust in against the will of the Metropolitan, and other the bishops of the same province. 
Orleans canon 10. 11.  In an other Council/ Let it not be lawful to get any bishopric by rewards, or by other procurement: but by the will off the king, according to the election of the clergy, and off the people, as it is contained in the ancient canons, that the bishop should be ordained by consent of the clergy, and of the metrapolitan, or him that he will appoint, together with the bishops of the same province. And after/ Besides this according as the old canons have decreed, no bishop may be given unto the people against their will: neither by oppression of mighty men, which is detestable, let the citizen's, or clergy be drawn to give their consent. And thus much for answer to your Counsels.  
To fetch a commandment out of the book of numbers, is to fetch it out of the highest court of heaven: And I was not constrained unto it/ for of more than half a score reasons brewghte/ whether one of them be once moved by you/ I leave it to be judged. This commandment pinched you so/ that albeit you pretend laughter: yet I doubt not but it is 
* It is an her be which he that eateth dieth, but yet maketh the countenance and show of one  Sardons lawghter/ that is to say/ from the teeth outward. where you say/ there is no word which signifieth an election: it is your old boldness/ off denying that which is as clear/ as the none days. Where also you say/ that it speaking of laying on of hands, can make nothing for the election of the church: I beseech you sir how do you prove/ that Timothe hath the choice of ministers? is it not by these words/ 
which lawgheth. Pa. 160.  that he is bidden not to lay on his hands? and have you not said/ that by the laying on of hands/ the whole solemnity of creating ministers is understanded? this is fast and loose/ and not only as Teconius said/ that that we will is holy: but when we 
Aug 2. li. cont. Lit. Pet. 13 c.  will/ and as long as we will. Belike the laying on of hands signifieth nothing/ or if it do/ and not the consent off the people: Why doth not the Answ. tell us what?  
And where he goeth about to find some difference in this/ and that which I say off the laying on of hands by the Eldership/ and heroff besides the peintinge off his mergente/ speaketh ones/ twice/ and the third time/ according to his old manner of repetitions: He purposely as seemeth/ passeth by my answer to that objection/ that not the people, but certain that is to say the elders in the name off the people, did lay on their hands: as it is to be seen in other places/ where the governors in the 
Levit. 4. 15.  name off all the people/ lay on their hands upon the sacrifice for sin. Where you will me to speak in good earnest: If I had only to do with such a trifler/ I would either answer nothing/ or else as such a one is worthy: but because I have to do with the church of God/ for judgement of the judicial/ and Ceremonial law/ and for proof of your untrue dealing: I refer myself to 
In his 2. Tract. p. 120.  that I have said before.  
if this I have alleged off laying on of hands upon the ordained/ be a Ceremonial law/ which took end by the coming off our Saviour Christ: then the apostles were injurious unto his death/ that translated that Ceremony from the jews under the law/ into the church under the Gospel. Therefore in this point you have to do with the Apostles/ and not with me. For as under the law the governors/ and the people consenting into one action/ testified the same by laying on of hands of the governors only: so under the Gospel the elders/ and people consenting in the election off one/ do testify it by laying on of hands of the Elders only.  
Where you would prove it abrogated/ because it it is joined with other things, which are abrogated: I have showed how that 
In 1. 3. P. 144.  is an engine/ to wrest out of the hands of the church/ all the moral laws that ever were written. Where you say/ there could be no election of the people in the levities, for that God had chosen them: You might have understanded/ that although the tribe of Levy only were used to the ministery/ yet all that tribe/ was not applied that ways: but as many as were thought enough to supply that office/ and those also not at all adventure/ but by choice according to their ability. I fear not Master W. the judgement of the greatest enemies I have/ and friends you have/ in this cause: but that their own consciences shall witness with me/ off my faithful alleging off the scriptures, and off your either notable ignorance/ or very evil conscience.  
And in these jests of yowres/ and accusations of my binding men unto the Ceremonial law/ and bringing them to judaisme, and fetching off a mandatum out of the ceremonial law: Were you not a frayed by my sides/ to thrust thorough Cyprian? Who fetcheth his proof for the election of the ministery by the 
Nom. 20. chap.  voice off the people/ out off the book of numbers/ where mention is made also of the priests garments which was ceremonial. Or were you not afraid thus to handle Master Caluin? His proof is fetched out of Leviticus/ whose special argument 
4. li. insti. 3. ca s. 15.  is to handle ceremonies and might not I fetch a commandment out off numbers/ which hath an other scope? He only upon that it was commanded/ that Moses should bring the Levites before the congregation, concluded that the people's consent owghte to be had, in the ministers choice: and was it not lawful for me having the same ground/ and further also the commandment that the people should lay on their hands/ to conclude as much? He took his place from thence/ where neither in the chapters before/ nor in that out of the which he fetcheth this there is any thing but ceremonial: And was it not lawful for me to take this sentence/ because other things in this chap. were ceremonial/ but that I must needs be thus jested on/ and my discretion so greatly required/ in handling the scripture? Therefore I say that I citing this place am no more jewish/ then the apostles/ then Cyprian/ then Caluin.  
Where I alleged for the establishing off that which he calleth a mandatum out of the ceremonial law, that the ground of children's baptism, standeth upon the ceremony of Circumcision: He answering that circumcision was a figure of baptism, but that the levitical priesthood was no figure off the Ministry of the Gospel, is deceived. For certain things in the Ministry of the law/ were figures off things in the Ministry of the Gospel: as their anointing/ signified that none may be admitted unto the 
8. Leuit.  ministery of the Gospel/ but those which have gifts meet for that purpose/ as our Saviour Christ himself out of Esai expoundeth it. Even their sacrifices (which of all other things are 
4. Lu. 18.  furthest from the ministry of the gospel) shadowed out the mortyfyinge off sin/ by the sword of the word of God: that the ministers might offer the people unto God/ a acceptable sacrifice through jesus christ/ as appeareth by Saint Paul. And 
Rom. 15. 16.  the laws of the levitical priesthood/ are not only figures off our ministery: but often times also/ rules to direct it by. therefore as off that Aaron took not upon him the priesthood/ before he was called off God/ the writer unto the Hebrews concluded/ 
Heb. 5. 4.  the calling of our Saviour Christ to his priesthood/ so far different from the priesthood of Aaron: so we conclude/ that no man may put his foot into the ministry/ whiles he be called. These arguments if Master W. answer be good/ are avoided with a flout/ that they be a mandatum out of the books of Leviticus, and Numbers: that they carry us to judaisme, etc.  
It is well the D. hath not to do with the anabaptists. For he is like enough to betray that cause/ which having so sure grounds in the scripture▪ is here by him laid open/ to their mockery. For he saith/ that the 28. of S. Matthew is a general ground to prove the baptism of Children: When our Saviour Christ speaketh there only off those which were off discretion/ as appeareth by that he biddeth them baptize those/ whom they have made scholars of Christ by their doctrine. And therefore for so much as the apostles could not teach children/ nor could not make them disciples by teaching before their baptism: it is manifest that he speaketh not there of children's baptism. And this might he have learned for his use/ in the same book of Zuinglius/ out of which he hath taken so many things to no purpose. And it is not only 
De baptismo. 2. Tom.  Master Zuinglius answer/ but other learned men's which have had to do with that sect. As for the promise alleged/ that god is our God, and the God of our seed, albeit that be the ground/ whereupon the holy sacramentè of Baptism is ministered unto infants: yet it is not sufficient/ without adding the commandment of God/ touching the circumcision off young children. For if the lord having given that promise unto Abraham/ had commanded no circumcision at all/ or had only commanded it to be given/ to those off discretion: it had not been lawful for Abraham to have circumcised his infants/ yet they should have remained under the promise. So that whether You will/ or no: we must come to reason from circumcision unto baptism. Neither is that you allege/ of Circumcision to have been a figure of baptism, sufficient to deliver you out of the nets/ wherewith you snare your self. For albeit it be a figure of baptism: yet it is aceremonie/ and a principal part of the ceremonial law: and your answer is general against all reasoning from the ceremonial law/ unto that which is established under the gospel. Therefore I uphold still/ that your answers here, and in other places/ tend to spoil us off divers pillars, and principal buttresses of our religion.  
Where he saith/ he condemnethe not other churches, which have 
Diuis. 8. pag. 169.  appointed other orders of electing pastors: I report me to thè reader/ whether the words be general/ and whether the reasons he allegeth for that purpose/ be likewise. Neither can the D. show any reason why in Geneva/ why in whole Dominions in Germany/ Why in v/ in France also in the time of their peace/ this order of election by the consent off the people/ should be good/ and pernicious in England. Which notwithstanding ought to have been showed/ if there be any.  
I expounded the word ought, as reason whereof the law is founded/ and experience which is often times the interpreter 
Cap. 5. pag. 170.  of the law/ tawgte me/ to show that where the consent off all can not be had▪ there the thing should pass/ by the most part of those which have interest. And where you affirm/ that lawyers do say, that that sentence is to be understanded of compartners, or joint tenants in some house, or possession, and not of the interest of bodies politic: I am well content they be interpreters of the law which they profess/ and therefore if that be showed me/ I will rest in that interpretation. But the reason assigned/ that it seldom cometh to pass that they will all consent/ seemeth not so strong: considering that there is not so great violence done unto the words of the law/ which may not be found in other places/ if by the word all, the most part be understanded. Especially when allthowghe all do not agreed: yet all have had free voice in that matter.  
And where you say/ that even that law admitteth divers exceptions: that is not material. For I lay not so much weight of this sentence/ as though the cause should rise/ and fall with it. I ment that as much credit might grow unto the cause by this/ as by a proverb which is true For the most part: of which kind of reasons not only orators/ but the scripture it self divers times useth. And therefore if I gain by this law/ that the ordinary choice of ministers/ ought to be by the people: I hath at I looked for. But it is to be observed/ that where the A found fault with me/ for mitigating the necessity of the word aught, by this exception if it may be: he notwithstanding allegeth four exceptions, whereby the necessity which he saith that word importeth/ is quite overthrown. And if those conditions be true: then be like I did well understand the word aught, the understanding whereof he can not afford me. It is well you be no lawyer. For you that are so liberal of a dinners talk/ as to tell us off Many together, and Many senerally, with so many exceptions to so small purpose: if you had been studied that 
Pluribus ut univer sis, pluribus ut sin gulis.  ways/ would have troubled us all. for than it is like we should have had always Cesar/ for christ/ and Paul the lawyer/ for Saint Paul the apostle.  
But mark what a trim way he hath found/ to prove that the whole parish chooseth when/ the bishop only chusethe: that they are willing to have him/ whom they are compelled whether they will or not/ to receive. Yea and not only that/ but that every minister is chosen by the whole realm, that is to say by those which never saw him/ nor heard of him. But hath he forgotten first that it is our controversy/ whether the parliament have done well/ in establishing off such an order off making ministers and whether this egg of the bishops election/ laid in propery/ could by the sitting upon off the Parliament (although never so godly) lose the poisoned nature it had before. If that be not agreed/ this devise that the people choose when the bishop, be-because it was so ordained by all estates) serveth not. This liberty as hath been showed/ is a piece of the liberties which Christ hath purchased unto his churches/ by the shedding of his precious blood: wherein they ought to have stood/ and which is no more lawful for them to alienate/ or set over to others: then to give away the inheritance of the kingdom of heaven/ whereunto this is annexed.  
Moreover we speak off an election/ wherein consent is to be given/ as oft as the church is destitute of a minister: and he off consent once given for ever. We off an election which is passed/ by all the howsholders of every church: he off that which was passed/ by a few burgesses in the whole realm. We off a free election: and he off an election wherein it is by your leave/ against your william. Now the Papists may clap their hands/ for against all the arguments that Master Caluin/ Beza/ Bullinger/ Zuinglius/ and others bring to prove/ that the church aught to have right in the election of their minister/ and that it belongeth not to one bishop to choose a minister: they may answer/ that the bishop chooseth not but the church/ yea the whole realm. For the prince/ and the people/ and the whole land have given that power unto the Pope/ and the pope to him: so that whatsoever is done in that election by the bishop/ is done by the people. But see how I forget myself/ which allege this unto him as a great absurdity/ whose case in this question/ is all one with the Papists: yet even with him/ it shall be sufficient to untie the band, which we have bound ourselves with, unless he will have the election still continue in the Pope's hands.  
And indeed he calleth us here/ to the consideration of our sins: whereby we have thus prodigally wasted/ and given into the hands of strangers/ the liberties which were bowght with so great a price. And we have better cause to think the earnestlier of them/ for somuch as the Answ. lawgheth us to scorn/ and would make us believe that we consent to elections when we are a sleep/ that we choose those/ whom we refuse: and so other eating the kernels/ he maketh us not a dinner/ but a feast with the shells.  
To all these accusations of the A. whereby he chargeth the 
Diuis. 2. pag 101.  civil elections of bodies politic/ if I should answer that The disorder off the bishops election is such, the peace with Satan/ and sin/ and contention with all goodness that hath/ and daily doth issue by them into all the parts off the Realm/ so horrible/ the ambition of the person standing in election so shameless/ the corruption of some/ the partial affection of others to their kinsfolk, their servants/ their servants friends/ the carelessness of others/ in some the want of sufficient knowledge/ in other some of sincerity/ and pureness of doctrine/ to be short in all the want of dew consideration of weightynes of that ministery/ is so apparent: that as that manner of election for necessary causes/ is altered in the best ordered churches in Europe/ so it is desired to be altered, in the church of England/ by those which be wise, godly, and learned, and by those which love the godly quietness, and prosperity of the church: and that experience crieth that those are the worthiest ministers/ most aptest to set forth the glory of God/ must profitablest for the church/ which are chosen with the consent of the people: I say if I should answer thus/ I doubt not but all the world will witness with me/ that I have juster cause thus to speak off the bishops elections of ministers: then the A. hath to speak so slanderously/ off civil elections made by consent in towns/ and cities. God be praised this cause of discipline we maintain/ hath been/ and by Gods grace shallbe upholden/ without touch off any lawful estate/ or form of government off comen wealth: but it appeareth that the Answ. can not maintain his cause/ without open oppugninge off one of them. And therefore to keep the bishop in his throne/ down must go all elections by many/ and by the same reason all trials of controversies by many/ all determinations/ and judgements by many/ and in a word the whole estate almost of our comen wealth/ must be removed. You ac●e us off confounding the comen wealth/ which you are never able to prove: here you are taken in the very act doing/ not by conclusion/ or implication/ but by a flat/ and direct affirmation. I doubt not that wise men do see your folly/ which being so unskilful of the government of the church/ the knowledge whereof you do profess: will take upon you as Phormio unto Hannibal/ to prescribe what form of government/ must be used in the comen wealth. And if it were not beside my profession/ I could show that it agreeth moste both with the definition of a cytisen/ which those give which handle this matter/ and with the practice off the best governed cities/ that the citizen's should have this interest of choice of their majors/ and bailiffs: confirmed by experience off dangerous seditions/ and separations from the comen wealth/ which have happened by abridging the people of this/ and such liberties. But for somuch as it belongeth not unto a divine/ to meddle with those/ but to content himself with what form off government soever (so it be lawful) thowght good to those/ to whom the ordering of that doth pertain: I leave to speak of that matter. But a man may smell the D. far off. For this is put in for defence of that spoil/ which he/ and others by untrue surmises/ most unnaturally made in the university/ when to th'end the Idleness/ covetousness/ and ambition of certain might be the more secure/ and without check they by their long/ and crooked talones/ seized upon the authority of the University Senate.  
But because he casteth so scornfully away/ those reasons which are alleged by me: I would know what he will answer to Master Martyr/ who useth the same reason I have here/ saying that it is no marvel, that the church hath this right to 
Upon 1. Cor. 16.  choose her ministers: seeing the civil laws do give this power to incorporate towns, to choose their Physicians, and Scolemaisters.  
Where he saith/ that the multitude is for the most part ignorant, careless, and oftentimes evil disposed, and commonly led by affection, hatred, fear, etc. There is no vice which any one of the church is subject unto/ but the bishop is subject unto the same. Neither i● there any affection enemy unto a good election/ whereof the bishop is not liker to be overcomed: then either the whole church/ or the greatest part thereof.  
What need this going about the bush? I speak off the visible church/ called by the preaching off the gospel: not off those whose calling is yet hidden/ and folded up in Gods election. And of those I say/ not as you (for what can you else do:) untruly report/ that they can not err in choosing their pastor: but that they are not such: ignorant dotterels/ as you would make us believe/ and such as have no taste to discern between good and bad/ holy and unholy. And this knowledge/ and discretion off good and evil/ is not only in those which are effectually called: but in those also which have only the outward calling/ without the spirit of sanctification/ and adoption of the children of God. So that the pretence of such ignorance as you speak off/ can not fall into any which are off the visible church of God. The D. could not hale in the corrupt interpretation of the pope in this place/ to help to make up his answer/ but he must ascribe a notable untruth unto me/ that I should go about to prove, that the church can not err in the election of the minister. Where have I pretended any such thing? or what need have I to prove that? As if I could no otherwise drive the bishop from this sole election/ unless I could prove that the people can not err in their election: Or as if bishops elections were without danger of error/ so that he which will change them/ must be driven to seek for such electors/ as no error can take hold off. And if any bars were strong enough/ to keep your tongue from this untrue dealing: my words which follow by and by after/ wherein I confess the church may err, had been sufficient to restrain it.  
Against my reasons here be bore words/ that the pastors are 
Diuis. 3. pa. 172.  never the worse loved, that are thrust upon them. I could have as well as you alleged the experience in other places/ if all men could have seen it: and have referred them to the manifold fi●tes in law between the pastor/ and the people in our churches. How often shall I tell him that the papists are not the church/ nor off the church of Christ: and therefore not to be suffered/ to have to do with the election of the minister? this needed he not to have asked/ if he had had his (to be short) which he repeateth so often/ in any commendation. He asketh/ whether men always continued in love, of those whom they have chosen. it is easier to continue love/ where love is: then both to fall into love of him whom they could not away with/ and also to continue the course off that love still. And if the not serving off their affections, breed hatred towards him whom they love: it will much more make it flame against him/ against whom it was before kindled.  
But still the A. imagineth off the church as off dogs/ and which receiving meat at the hand off their pastor/ turn again 
Mat. 7. 6.  upon him/ and rend him: and not as sheep which hear the voice off their pastor. And although there be some hypocrites uhhich do so: yet all the church doth not so. And therefore for their sakes/ 
10▪ john. 4.  and for the giving the deeper root of love in their hearts towards the pastor: it is meet that this way off free consent should be taken. As for the Hypocrites/ when they shall cease to love their pastors/ for rebuking their faults: that shall be to the increase of gods glory. Forsomuch as they are by so much more inexcusable before God: as they have refused his admonition/ whom they themselves chose for that purpose. And not that only/ but the hatred conceived off that duty of the minister/ shall be bridled/ and holden in rather by ●●e remembrance of the judgement/ which he once in token off good will gave of him. For even the earthily/ and natural man hath this in him/ that whom he hath once loved: him if he hate afterward/ unless it be for some thing apparently worthy of hatred/ he will be loath to utter it. And although for that his manners please him not/ he can not love him yet lest he should appear inconstant/ and deceived in his choice: he will pretend to love him still. So that the consent off the church in the election of the ministery/ being profitable unto the godly/ and those which are true sheep/ that their love may abound towards their minister / and in respect of the Hypocrites/ and goats/ that they may be more inexcusable before God/ and less hurtful to men: these reasons stand still untouched of the A.  
It is an easy thing for M. D. Which neither proveth/ 
Diuis. 4. pag 173.  nor improveth any thing by scripture/ to ask by what scripture prove, that if the parish choose an unfit minister: the ministers, and elders of the churches should advertise, etc. The scripture I prove it by is/ that Saint Paul when he teacheth that all the faithful are members of one mystical body off christ/ which ought to have a mutual 
Rom. 12. 12. 1. Cor.  care one of an other: laid the foundations of this polity. for as in the body off one particular church/ every faithful man compared with an other in the same/ is a member one of another: so in a more general body of a whole Realm/ every particular church compared with other/ is likewise member of them. therefore as nature teacheth my hand to help the disorder which is in another part of my body: so the spirit of God out of his word/ through a fellow feeling teachetche one church to stretch out her hand/ to put a way as it can/ the evil which it seeth approach unto another. And therefore when the scripture willeth 
Rom. 15. 14. 3. Heb. 13.  that one should admonish another/ it is not only a commandment to every singular man/ towards his fellow: but also to one whole company/ towards another society.  
And off this care extended so far that one church hath 
2. Cori. 8. 23.  sent to admonish another/ we have example in the epistle to the Corinth's: where the Macedonian churches sent their ambassadors with Saint Paul's Epistle/ both to move the Corinthians to liberality towards the poor/ and to receive that which was given by the church unto their use. And this may serve to prove/ that one church ought to admonish another: and therefore also those which are next/ as those which are fitteste for that purpose.  
That from the admonition of the churches, it is meet to come to synods, if the judgement of the churches be contemned: may beshewed 
Math. 18.  by proportion/ from the place of our Saviour Christ in Saint Matthew. For as when one brother is not moved with the admonition of two/ or three/ the matter must be referred unto the church/ to see whether the majesty of it will move him/ whom the authority off two or three would not: even so it is meet that the church/ that maketh light of the judgement off two or three churches/ should be pressed with the judgements of the diocese or province/ as shall be in that behalf advised. And if I were in this point destitute of the word of God: yet the naked examples of the reformed churches/ ought to weigh down a popish custom.  
And that the magistrate ought to lay to his hand, if the admonitions take not place: it is manifest by the reason which is alleged. I have looked master Zuinglius Ecclesiast over, and over again. The sum whereof is/ that none should take upon him any ministery/ which is not called of some church/ and of the ministers near about/ contrary to the practice off the anabaptists: which entered into all churches/ and sometime put the pastor beside the pulpit/ from which whether you/ or we be further/ let the reader judge.  
Where you say/ that I forget myself which suppose now the church may ere, that said before it was spiritual, and judgeth all things: if you could forget this untrue dealing/ I remembered myself well enough. These cavils which come so often/ without any colour of truth/ are utterly unworthy of answer: but as I have said in another place/ require rather a censor/ then a disputer. Howbeit because there is nothing so unsavoury/ which some taste may not be abused by. I have answered it before.  
There is nothing so easy which is not hard/ to him that is unwilling. And therefore the A as Salomon'S sluggard, saith 
prou 22. 13.  that the Lion whose delight is in the forest/ and in the wilderness/ is in the high street, or in the burse: that is to say/ maketh difficulties where none is. And as this partly cometh of his unwillingness: so divers of these questions (if he do not dissemble) come of want of knowledge/ not only of the government of the churches now/ but off all aunciete times. For he asketh/ who shall complain off the fault committed in the election, to the churches by? if the elders to whom that care especially appertaineth/ do not: others ought whom that disorder offendeth. There needeth no calling together, and therefore no danger of tumult, disorder, confusion, charges, parts taking, running up and down, loss of time, offence, quarrels: it is enough that it be done by the eldership of the churches and if were needful to have the churches/ wholeconsent: it might be done in ordinary meeting for the service of god/ without any of those things which the D. imagineth. The churches may admonish by their several/ or comen letters emongeste them. But ask me not who shall carry the letter/ what he shall have for his pains/ whether he shall ride/ or go a foot: which you might as well/ as those fond questions which you have moved.  
It is meet the provincial Synods be certain/ and standing/ as often also as may be conveniently: and it was ordained as I think in one of the African Counsels/ that their should be at the lest/ two or three every year. So there shall be as speedy provision of a pastor for the church/ in such cases of difference: as now when they be without a pastor six whole months. For the questions who shall summon the Synods, and in what place they shall be holden: they pertain not to this question/ unless the A. will have no Synods at all. for if he admit them: the sumoner/ and the place which are meet for the assemble generally/ and for the decidinge off all causes which fall into the consideration of the Synod/ are meet also for this cause. And where he asketh what if the prince do not his duty: than it is as if there were no godly magistrate/ then it is with them as if such a disorder should happen under an unchristian prince: and then the people shall perish in their sins/ but their blood shall be required at his hand. But still the A. seeth not how he reasoneth against himself. For if none of the bishops of the foresaid parishes/ none off the elders/ neither those bishops and elders which amongst the rest/ and in the name off all are chosen as the flowers out of the province/ and sent to the Synod/ nor the magistrate/ I say if none of all these/ nor all these together do their duty: how shall we think that the bishop will do it? And if he do it in appoinctinge a fit bishop for the parish/ and the parish will not admit him/ but take one which is unmeet of their own choice: what remedy hath he/ when he is forsaken off the magistrate? Thus as shortly as I could/ I have answered this legion of questions: and if my answer in speaking off things so comen/ be tedious: take thyself good reader unto the A. which merueileth at them/ as if they came out of India.  
Where he saith/ I thus appoint the Prince a good office: I have showed that the scripture appointeth it/ and not I: and it is the most honourable office which the Prince can have/ to see the churches be kept in good order: neither taketh it any thing from the royal estate that he must obey/ and serve the lord. And where he saith/ by this means the Prince must stand, and look on all this while, and in the end lay to his hand: I answer/ that whereas these ways off admonition by the churches/ and Synod are sent before his authority: it serveth not only for the ease off the magistrate/ whilst that after this sort oftentimes/ the difference is ended before it come to him: but also agreeth better with the manner of Physic/ which ought to be used in such diseases. For that which may be conveniently won with a word/ should not be gotten by the sword: and that which may begotten to be done with conscience/ should not be essayed by compulsion. Your slander (that we give no more to the civil magistrate, than the papists) so often repeated/ is already/ and god willing shall be more/ apparante. It is also a notable/ and an impudent slander/ that the Magistrate must only at the commandment of the seniors, execute such laws as they have devised: where as we hold/ that if all the bishops/ and elders in the realm/ would decree unlawful things/ the Prince ought to make them void: and that he may/ and ought to punish all ecclesiastical persons/ which walk disorderly. Likewise it is a fond dream/ of surcharging the Prince with these matters: as although the Prince's authority/ necessarily derived unto divers in every shire/ for other affairs of government/ may not likewise departed also this care unto them.  
Therefore if you have no better exceptions than these: I am not afraid/ still to commit my reasons to the judgement/ not only of the godly/ which rest in authority of the word/ but even of the wise/ and reasonable man/ which maketh his account of likelihoods.  
These high words/ that he remembreth no learned writer new nor 
Chap. 6. pa. 165.  old, which denieth that there were few professors of the gospel in the apostles times, in respect of those profess now: what have they beside a crack? And in respect of the old writers/ it is absurdly said. For how could they compare the number of the professors of our times, with those which were in the primitive churches/ unless they should prophecy: seeing they were dead long before? And maketh it for you/ if the new writers do not deny this? if it he no good reason from the scripture negatively, in those things which it professeth to speak off: is it good from other writers/ and from one part of them/ in things which they make no profession of▪ I looked therefore you should have browghtesome/ which by affirming that you say: might if not make it true/ yet at the lest seem true. I could off your challenge take occasion/ to bring all the peregrination of Saint Paul/ declared in the Act. Epistles/ and especially in the 15. Rom. drawn to my hand/ by which appeareth that he for his part only/ had caused the Gospel to sound in more than half of the world. I could also fetch in Euseb. and Jerome/ which testify what the other apostles did 
Lib. 3. c. r jero. ad Marcell.  for their part. I propounded that which I said without proof, because the things are manifestly known/ and such as can not be denied: you affirm without all proof that in controversy/ and whereupon your cause in your judgement dependeth/ that no one part of the world, no one city, no one the least town, received the gospel wholly in the Apostles time.  
If I should suffer you to go away with this great/ and ungrounded saying: yet thereby can not be concluded/ that there are more Christians now in a part of Europe, then was throwghoute the world in the Apostles time. But I require proof of that you set down so precisely/ not only because I think you can not warrant it by any: but also because I have somewhat to except against 
Act. 8.  it. For it may appear that Samaria did wholly receive the gospel. For beside that it is recited/ that with one accord the multitudes gave heed unto that Philipp said: S. Luke declaring in the 10. and 11. verses/ that all that were in Samaria from the little to the great/ were bewitched with the inchaunmentes of Simon: addeth in the 12. verse/ that when they believed they were baptized. This having relation unto that which goeth before/ which is that all were abused by the magycian: it followeth that the whole city received the gospel. Whereunto may be referred 
9 Luk. 53. 4. joh. 9  the emulation between jerusalem/ and Samaria: whereby it came to pass that the gospel thrust out of jerusalem/ was both easilier/ and more generally received in Samaria. Likewise that it is said in the 13. verse/ that even Simon himself of all 
Act. 8:  other most untoward/ believed: and that in the 14. ver. that Samaria had received the word of God, and not many in Samaria/ 
Act. 14. 1 & 21. & 17 4.  as he speaketh off other places/ where the Gospel was but in part received. If one except/ that it is not like every singular person turned/ at the preaching off Philip: I answer that in such straight signification of all/ there shall be at this day found no kingdom/ and almost no city which hath received the gospel. But if the whole profession of the gospel/ be esteemed off that which is done by the body/ and state of the city: it seemeth that the words of Saint Luke will bear out/ a whole/ and general profession at the least of the most part/ which you deny. And if it be true that Euseb. writeth/ we have a manifest testimony of the whole receiving off the gospel in the 
2. li. 1. ca  city of the Edissens/ which was won unto the Gospel by the preaching of Thaddeus/ sent to king Agbarus by Thomas the apostle: of whom it is written/ that he brought all to the knowledge of the gospel/ and that the whole city of the Edissens, having at that time given her name unto the profession of Christ, so continued unto the time wherein Eusebius written.  
Where you would seem to say some great matter/ when you add not at jerusalem: it is asmuch as if you should say/ that no town received the gospel/ because jerusalem the most murdering town in the whole world/ did not: whose rebellion/ and for it destruction/ being foretold off our Sau. christ/ must needs follow. For touching the Apostles abode there/ it was not for the hope off any plentiful harvest to be reaped in that city: But partly for that the jews/ unto whom they were sent to preach first/ had their concourse thither from all corners of the world: partly to fulfil the prophecy/ off the sound of the gospel from Zion/ into all parts of the world: and thirdly to prepare a readier passage/ for his heavy judgements to 
Esa. 23.  come upon that city.  
That also also which you add/ that the tenth part of the inhabitans of Ephesus, Antioch, and Rome, was not Christian in the Apostles times: is only said/ and it is much for you to speak so largely off the tenth/ not able to prove the five/ or third. And although it can not be certainly known/ what number of believers were at these places: yet it may be by all likelihood showed/ that it is untrue especially off the two first. Of Antioch we read/ that when they which were scattered by persecution moved in 
Act. 11. 20. 21.  jerusalem/ preached there: the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number believing turned unto the lord. And in the 24. verse it is said/ that at the preaching of Barnabas/ there was a great multitude added unto the lord. And yet in the 26. verse it is declared/ that afterward Barnabas procuring Saint Paul's coming thither/ they both together abiding there by the space off one whole year/ tawght a great multitude. Here is mention off three great multitudes/ which at several times were turned unto the lord in that city: and how dare you yet say/ that all these were not the tenth part? Of Ephesus also it is written/ that the fruit off S. Paul's preaching there by the space of two years/ was so great/ that the books of those which had exercised curious/ and unlawful arts/ were bourned in the sight off all men: which could not be done without great danger unto the church/ unless the greatest part of 
Act. 19 19 ibid. 27.  the city had believed. Which may yet more appear/ for so much as Demetrius the siluersmythe/ affirmeth that the art of making shrines, and Diana's temple, was in danger to be set at nothing.  
And as the A. is to narrow/ in esteeming the fruit of the Apostles preaching/ accompanied with such power off miracles/ and diversities of gifts of the holy ghost/ whereby were gathered greater numbers of professors of the gospel/ then now by the simple preaching off the word: so in his account off the number of professors of the Gospel now/ he is marvelously lavish. For where are those whole contreis', nations, and kingdoms which profess Christ? If he take in the Papists to make up his reckuinge/ they will not be received. For we speak off the church off christ/ and off those which embrace the gospel: and so himself had put it in his answer to the admonition. The papists therefore/ which pretending the name of christ/ persecute the gospel/ are the Synagogue of Satan/ and must in this account of Christians/ be shut out: howsoever by changing off the professors of the gospel, into those which profess Christ, you would seem to wind them in The mixture which was in the apostles times/ off professors of the gospel/ with those which were professed enemies unto it/ being yet in those kingdoms you speak of: you are so far from shewing/ that the multitude of professors of the gospel in Europe/ is greater now than it was in then in all Asia/ Africa/ and Europe: that you do not so much as show/ that the number of Christians in Europe it self/ is now greater than in time of the Apostles.  
When it is said/ that the whole church assembled for election: all men know that thereby is ment/ that particular company of professors of the gospel/ which dwelling nigh together/ make one assembly: and therefore that you writ off the impossibility, of gathering all the church scattered through out the whole world into one place, is but a mere dalliance. You say/ they might well meet without confusion in the Apostles times, which can not be nows: the reason you assign/ in the fewnes in one place off the professors then, and multitude now. although it be granted that there are more now in the cities/ then were then: and that be given you too/ that the multitude ought to change the form off elections (neither whereof you are able to show): yet it still falleth out against you. For albeit there be more professors in a city than were: it followeth not/ that there are more belonging unto one assembly/ then there were them. Wherein I will go no further/ than to the example of the church/ which you allege to have chosen the deacons: where could hardly be less than six thousand persons/ seeing that at the second sermon of Saint Peter/ there being five thousand/ it is affirmed afterward that multitudes 
4. Act. 4. 5. Act. 14.  of men/ and women were added. Now where shall you have lightly in the cities which profess the gospel/ one only church of so many thousand persons? considering that for the greater commodity of meeting/ and governing the whole mass of Christians in one city/ it is divided into several churches/ as it were flocks into several feedinge. And if you would have proved any thing/ you should not have considered how the number of Christians are increased in their cities: but how they are increased in their churches. And so you should have found that by your own reason/ the elections in the time of persecution/ ought rather to have been made by one/ and the elections now/ by many: seeing in persecuted churches/ for want of the commodity off dividing themselves into proportionable assemblies: the number being more/ the danger off tumult/ and confusion/ must by your own saying be greater.  
You say it is a very good reason/ that because the church was under the cross, therefore it was few in number in comparison: but you answer not the authority which I alleged/ touching the 
Exo: 1. 12.  increase off the children of Israel/ more under the cross/ then in prosperity. The reason you add/ off many hypocrites in the peace of the church, hath small force. For that there are in persecuted churches many hypocrites/ may appear by the Israelites/ which dread in persecution/ made often rebellions in the wilderness: likewise by the complaints of S. Paul/ that all sought their own not 
Phi. 2. 21. 2. Tim. 1. 15.  Christ's/ that all were turned from him.  
That one example only/ is able to overthrow that which you put so generally: yet your one example of London, is not able to confirm your purpose: it serveth you therefore for a pinch at the city/ and for no reason off your cause. And albeit the backsliding from the Gospel/ was through the realm very horrible in Queen Mary's days: yet there is no cause to pick London out as the worst/ seeing there were great numbers there/ which with hazard of all they had/ and of their lives/ frequented assemblies where the word of God was truly preached/ and the Sacraments purely administered: the like meetings being rarely found in other places/ no (to our own shame be it spoken) not in the university/ where of most right/ they should have been.  
What gain you by that the church was diminished in jerusalem? seeing the decrease of one church/ was the increase off divers other/ whereunto those of jerusalem adjoined themselves. Therefore you conclude not well/ in saying that particular churches by persecutions are diminished, because one church of jerusalem was so: no more than you can say/ that a man hath a white head/ because he hath one white hear on his head. but I may rather say/ that by persecution the particular churches are increased/ for somuch as Samaria/ and other churches were by that flight of jerusalem/ partly adorned with teachers/ partly augmented in disciples. And thereby is confirmed that I have set down/ off the marvelous spawn of the church under the cross: both because every one driven from jerusalem/ was as good seed which brought his hundredth/ or fifty fold: and for that after jerusalem was delivered of that birth/ she conceived again/ and browghtforthe (as may appear) a greater number than before. 
21. Act. 20   
What are my words werby I affirm/ that the churches in time of persecution meet often, and keep together? it is that I precisely deny. Verily this is too homely rhetoric/ to affirm I say/ that which I manifestly deny. And although it be more clearer than the son/ that a smaller number may better know one another/ then a great: those which devil near one to another/ then that devil far of/ and scattered: those which meet oftener/ then which meet seldomer: yet the A. dowbteth not to say/ that the contrary of this is a known truth. Where he allegeth for proof/ the often conference, and trial of every one before they be received: For the first/ it may be easily understanded/ that seeing it is dangerous for them to meet together/ godly polity doth teach them/ to break their companies as soon as they may conveniently. And therefore the public action ended/ off preaching/ praying/ and receiving the Sacraments: the conference which may be/ and is commonly in the church's peace/ one with another/ through fear off the danger/ which may come off being seen man it together/ is cut off. As for the knowledge by trial of those which are received into the church/ if he knew that it cometh only off the report off two/ or three/ which give testimony of those which are to be received: and that it extendeth not to any understanding given to the church/ off his gifts either of teaching/ or government/ but only that he is a faithful man: I say if he knew these things/ or knowing them would acknowledge them: there should be no cause upon confidence of that trial/ to fasten such knowledge one of another, in a church persecuted.  
Before I further answer the D. reason/ touching the change 
Diuis. 2. pag 177. Hosius de Sacram. ordinis cap. 54.  of the manners of the Christians in times of peace/ from that they were under persecution: understand good reader/ that this is the very reason off the archpapist Hosius/ against the election of the church: which affirmeth that there is greater gravity/ and constantie in the Christians under persecution/ and therefore that this manner of election by the bishop/ was brought in. now to Hosius/ and the D. I answer/ that when wickedness breaketh into open actions/ then they are no more Hypocrites/ but openly wicked/ and such as ought not only be taken heed off: but without speedy amendment/ removed. I grant it is no shame to the churches to have Hypocrites/ for asmuch as the judgement of man can not discern them/ and of them and none 
Math. 13. 29.  other is the parable of tars/ which forbiddeth weeding until the day of harvest: and they are only those which can not be rooted out. But to say that beside those which are corrupt in religion, it is full of drunkards, whoremongers, etc. It is more than ever S. Paul reproached any the most diffigured churches/ he wrote unto. For how many such persons as be found in her: so many botches hath she/ which do not only stain her beauty/ but put her in hazard off her life. And if Saint Paul for one unclean 
1. Cor. 5. 2  person/ thowght that all the Corinthians had good cause of mourning: rivers of tears in every man's head/ are not sufficient for us to bewail/ the estate which Master D. telleth us we be in: which by his saying/ have few sober/ few chaste/ etc.  
I leave to the reader how evil the three places off Saint Matthew/ are patched up together: and how there is never a one of them/ which proveth that he taketh in hand/ that there be in the church open offenders/ which can not be rooted out. I give warning only to the simple reader/ that the A. being deceived in interpretation of the parable of the sour/ do not also deceive him. For there is nothing less meant/ then that where one heareth the word profitably, three do the contrary, which is both courious/ and uncomfortable: only he showeth/ that of four kinds of hearers/ one only receiveth fruit: but of the number of those which hear fruitfully/ or otherwise/ not a word. And it may be for any thing our Saviour Christ setteth down/ that in some places/ that one sort of men which hear with fruit are more in number/ then all the other three which hear without fruit. If we should say that there is no church where such faults be/ or that for such faults we should make a departure from the church: these charges off Anabaptistry which sound so often/ and so full in your mouth●/ might have place. But that it is an Anabaptistical cavil to say/ that the multitude and swarm off known/ and open faults/ argue want off good government/ and wholesome discipline in the church: you are never able to show/ neither your self by argument/ nor out of Master Bull. or any other godly writer. Shall there be no end off this unfaithful dealing? Where in a syllable is it said/ that the gospel can not be sincerely preached where great corruption of manners doth appear: yet whilst you confute this/ You would make men believe that we affirm it.  
When I say there be no known drunkards/ or whoremongers in the church: I speak off that which should be/ unto which meaning the tenure of my disputation would have led you/ if you had been willing to follow. For you opposing that for a bar unto the people's election/ 'effect of my answer was: that it is not meet to take advantage off this/ that there be many such drunkards/ and whore mongers: seeing they both may/ and owghte either be brought to repentance/ and so are none such as they were/ or thrust out of the church/ and so not hinder the election. This my meaning was clear/ and the manner of speech if it had been simply considered/ without circumstances restraining to this meaning/ is such/ as the scripture doth admit. As when Paul saith/ that the churches of God have no custom 
1. Cor. 11. 16.  to contend: he setteth forth not that which always cometh to pass but what ought to be always. For it may be that contention may continue in a church many years: and yet it not cease to be the church of God. The prosperity of the Gospel/ sheilded by authority of the Christian magistrate/ draweth by no necessity with it/ such abundance of wicked as you suppose. for although hypocrisy may be more than under persecution/ yet known wickedness/ of whoredom/ drunkenness/ etc. may be easilier purged out 
Psa. 101. 8. Pro. 20. 8.  off the church/ under a Christian magistrate. So that the swarm off such wickedness under the Christian magistrate/ more then when there was none/ is not the fault of the time/ but off the governors of church/ or comen wealth/ or both. As for hypocrites/ I have showed that there is not so great danger in them: considering that their owteward doings are the same with the children of God/ and the difference is only in the heart. Which although you deny: yet my reason drawn of the nature of an hypocrite/ you do quite pass by.  
That which you call the prosperity, might well be called 
Diuis. 3. pag. 178.  the cross/ and whip of the gospel: if it drew such a tail of sin/ as you suppose. For if under a Christian Magistrate/ either always/ or for the most part/ not only the number of hypocrites/ but of barefaced/ and known wicked/ should be multiplied: and not that only/ but the good themselves should wax worse: that time might peradventure after a sort/ be called the prosperity of those which profess the gospel: but how the gospel may be said them to prospero/ which is so many ways plucked down/ I can not understand. And this is clean contrary to the fruits of peace/ which the scripture declareth. The Prophet as soon as he 
Nah. 1. ca 15.  had spoken of peace/ which should be published amongst the jews: addeth that juda should then keep her solemn feasts, perform her vows, because the wicked enemy of the church, was cut off. Whereby he doth not only show/ that the end off the peace of the church/ is to serve god more wholly than before: but also that the peace gave them more commodity of serving off God/ then they could have in time of persecution. And if you reply that so it should be/ but it is not: the answer is/ if it be not so/ it is through the great/ and unexcusable fault of all/ and governors especially: which having more means to entertain all godliness/ suffer it to go to wrack.  
But that peace of itself is an aid to godly increase/ and confirmation of the church: it is manifest/ by that all the churches in jury, Galilee, and Samaria, being in peace were edified, 
Act. 9 31.  and walking in the fear of God, were multiplied. Now if they in the time of peace multiplied/ having no further aid of the magistrate/ then that he hurt them not: what condemnation shall it be/ if our churches which have assistance of the magistrate/ cannot uphold them in that fear of God/ but they must fall into such riot/ as the A. supposeth? And if multiplying off open wickedness/ and decrease of former godliness were so general/ and so incident to the peace of the gospel/ as you pretend: there is no cause why we should pray so earnestly/ and often for it/ nai rather there should be good cause/ off praying against it. For when it is given us of God/ partly for our ease/ and especially for the glory of God in increase of all virtue: the chief part which is the glory of God/ being by you shut out: there is no cause why we should pray for the other. Your reason of having a better feeling in the time of persecution, then in the peace of the gospel, is very insufficient: especially to that you use it unto/ off proving greater plentithe of knowledge in time of persecution/ then in peace. considering that those wicked which never were in persecution/ nor have that spirit which is often times sharpened/ and quickedned by persecution: know notwithstanding the mysteries of God/ as the children of God themselves. And although the persecution should give some advancement to knowledge that ways: yet it hindereth more otherways/ in that it letteth the often meetings to hear the word of God/ whereby knowledge is bred: in that also poverty (where with it is continually yoked) draweth many cares for this present life/ for them/ and theirs. Likewise continual fear they be in/ even during the time of their meetings for the word of God (enemy unto the understanding/ and putting to flight the powers of the mind/ wherewith knowledge is gotten) and also the often/ and soudein shiftinges from place/ to place: must needs be a let to that tainment of knowledge/ in the word off God. Where you call upon answer unto your reason: you have it/ that the time of peace draweth no more ignorance in the professors of the gospel/ then the time of persecution: and therefore the difference between these times in that point/ to be evil assigned. I alleged also/ that the elections of the bishops were so evil and of so unfit persons/ that unless the election of the church should serve much: yet it can hardly choose worse/ then the bishops do/ whereunto you answer not.  
The distinction of being of the church, and in the church, I browghte/ and allowed of it: yet as although you had brought 
Diuis. 4. pag. 179.  it/ and I refused it/ you labour in confirmation of it. But that which needeth your help/ and for proof whereof I ask some testimony of scripture/ that Idolaters, and papists are in the church, is not proved. As for drunkards/ and whoremongers/ 2c. It is spoken off before: close papists/ and Atheists which dissemble their wickedness/ be in the number of Hypocrites/ and therefore must be holden to be in the church/ until the Lord discover them. For professed Papists/ and Atheists/ which never made profession of the gospel/ it is not needful to wait for the sentence of excomnnication to cut them of/ seeing they were never of the church. If notwithstanding their professed enmity unto the gospel, they should be accounted off the church, because they agreed to hear the word and receive the sacrament with us: then a turk/ or a jew professing his Turkisme/ or judaisme/ if he be contented to hear the word/ and receive the Sacrament/ is so also to be accounted. Which if it be absurd/ it can be no good reason to say/ that they ought therefore to be holden off the church/ because they are in some respects content to he are the word/ and receive the Sacraments.  
And I would gladly learn/ where the Lord hath willed us/ so to cast away the use of our judgement/ that when men make open profession that they are members of the body of the Pope/ which is Antchriste/ yet we must account of them as of members of Christ: or how this is to judge justly. You 
7. joh. 14.  are very unfaithful in reporting my words continually. I neither say/ that Hypocrites only are in the church, and not of it: and the place in the margin/ I allege to another purpose than 
1. Cor. 5. 12.  you affirm/ that is/ to prove that the papists/ and Idolaters being without/ have not to do with the church/ nor the church with them. where you would prove by those words/ if any brother be an Idolater, that Idolaters may be in the church: you must understand/ first that it is one case of him that hath given his name to the gospel/ and afterward slideth from that profession to Idolatry: and another of him which never gave it/ but hath been from his infancy an Idolater. For although the first can not be severed from the church/ without solemn sentence of excommunication/ because by a public profession of the truth/ he was once received into the body thereof: yet there is not like reason of him/ which was never so settled. And this difference Saint Paul doth make/ when he giveth leave to a Christian to 
1. Cor. 5. 11.  have to do with an Idolater of the world/ that is which hath not been of the church: and yet will not suffer him to have to do with one/ which is famously known (for so the the word signifieth) 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  to be a brother. whereupon followeth/ that forsomuch as our Idolaters professing their popery still/ are not/ nor can not be famously known for professors of the gospel: this place of S. Paul openeth no door for them/ to enter into the church.  
Furthermore it must be observed/ what kind of Idolatry it is/ which Saint Paul saith may fall into a brother/ and yet he retain the name of brother. This appeareth upon the discourse 
1. Cor. 8. & 10.  he maketh in that Epistle/ to have been only a sitting down to eat at the feast of Idolaters/ made in honour of their Idols/ without any honour done to idols by sacrifice/ or bodily worship/ and without any conscience of that meat more than of other. Which although he prove a spice of Idolatry: yet was it one of the leasie/ and lightest kinds/ and such as holding still the foundacione of Christianity/ could not without obstinacy in it/ cut from the church. Whereby fall the out/ that the papists which in their Idolatry raze the foundations of true religion/ can not by that place/ come into any account off the church off God.  
For the first place of Master Caluin/ that there are in the Church contemners of God, and which live dissolutely: if the S. had added the next words that such ought with all diligence to be taken away by excommunication: he might have been as hamed/ to allege this sentence to so small purpose. The other that Saint Paul meaneth the abstaining from a disordered 
1. Cor. 5. 11.  brother off private society/ and not of the public communion: it is true in deed but to no purpose. For withal he confesseth/ that the other ought to be severed from the communion. But forasmuch as it is not in the power of a private man to excommunicate/ that pertaining (as he saith) unto whole body of the church/ by whose consent it ought to be done/ and yet in his power to keep himself from his private society: he concludeth against the Anabapt. which abstained from the holy communion if any living offensively were received/ that it followed not because S. Paul would have one abstain from private familiarity/ therefore he would have him abstain from the communion. Which is no part of our question/ and is too shamefully alleged/ considering that the place making nothing to this question/ striketh stark dead another of his causes/ touching the sole excommunication of the bishop. And although it be out of place/ yet having gotten the book/ it shall not be unprofitable/ to admonish the reader of the S. unfaithful dealing in his former allegations of Master Caluin/ for where pa. 81. he to conclude that the discipline is not of the substantial notes of the church/ allegeth a sentence out of this book: beside that I have showed how evil he concludeth off his words/ it is to be noted that in the same book he affirmeth precisely/ that the discipline is required to the substance of the church only he denieth that which the Anabaptist. held/ that there was no church/ where there was no excommunication. Likewise pa. 90. where he would make us believe/ that excommunication 19 Math is not by Master Caluin judgement understanded off public offences/ Mai. Caluins' declareth only that those private admonition's/ do not belong unto public offences: but that those public offenders aught to be excommunicated/ if they rest not in the church's judgement/ and consequently first complainned of to the church (Which are two of the Ecclesiastical censures/ mentioned in that place of S. Matthew) he doth more than once or twice affirm. Now leving the D. in his threchery let us return. if all were true you allege here (as they are very untrue) yet they help not. For you will not deny/ but drunkards/ whoremongers/ papists/ etc. ought either to be driven to repentance/ or out of the church: which whether soever come to pass/ taketh away the inconvenience you allege/ against the election of the church. So that unless you mean to nourish them in the church/ as bandogs to keep out this election: this bar against it/ is easily removed.  
It is appointed unto the magistrate by the word of God/ that he should not only provide that his subjects live paceably/ one with another: but also and that especially/ to see that they 
2. Tim. 2. 2.  having the true knowledge of God/ may serve him as he hath prescribed. This way off gathering them to the next parishes/ seemed unto me fittest to be used in that case: if you can show better/ mine shall give place. Only therefore I made mention of it/ to show that the impossibility which you so often cast in the teeth of the reformation/ can have no place: if they continue uncorrigible/ I have before showed that it is the commandment of God unto the magistrate/ to use cutting/ and burning/ and neither to suffer God to be dishonoured in them/ nor the rest of his subjects infected. If they can be discerned for dogs or swine, which are not only filthy (in which regard I called drunkards/ etc. Swine) but also tread the word under their feet: then I grant/ he which hath that judgement of them assured by the testimony of the spirit of God/ owghte not to teach them. But this cometh out of time. For I made no mention off dogs/ and the name of swine I gave not to the papists/ but to filthy livers: and it overturneth your purpose: for if they may not hear the word/ much less can they be off the church. The preventing off an objection/ is no digression: whether it be frivolous, the judgement shall be with the reader.  
I took the likeliest signification of your word established: 
Diuis. 5. pa. 181.  which is/ surely grounded without remove/ and which hath all the parts off a church: now I see that by (established) you mean allowed by the magistrate. although I have showed before by story/ that there were churches then/ which had maintenance of the magistrate: yet as in a matter that neither hurteth me/ not helpeth you/ I will not strive. speak of the church visible/ standing off good/ and evil/ of the outward government of the church/ which standeth in administering off the word/ and Sacraments/ and exercise of all parts off church discipline: and that I have showed to have all her parts/ although not all her ornaments. Which I did not without reason annexed/ against which cometh nothing but a bore affertion/ and a charge of ignorance of that distinction, which I myself did first propound. touching this that the civil magistrate is not the head of the church/ it falleth into the question of the Archbishop/ where it shall be (god willing) handled.  
That he saith that the state of the church was in the Apostles time popular: by his own judgement (which giveth the name unto the form of government, of that part which most ruleth) is untrue. for the State of the best, did bear the greatest rule: considering that there were matters belonging unto the church done by the eldership/ whereat the people were not/ nor could not by any convenience be present/ yet there was nothing in which the people's judgement was required/ wherein the eldership was not both present/ and precedent. And this saying off the D. that the people in the apostles times, had to do almost in every thing: is directly contrary to that he hath before discoursed. For to the Admo. and me opposing the places off the Acts/ where 
Act. 1. 14: 15.  things were done either by voice/ or consent off the church: his answer hath been/ that the church had nothing to do there/ but only in the election of the Deacons/ and that popularity he 
Act. 6.  affirmeth to have been/ not in respect that the church was under persecution/ as here in this place: but for a special cause of contention/ then in the church. Now I would gladly know of Master D. What are those places off scripture/ whereby he will prove that the most things in government/ were done by consent off the people: if those places we have alleged/ do not prove it. That which you add/ off the convenience that nothing should be done in the church, without the consent, and knowledge of the magistrate: your addition taketh nothing from the consent of the church. For the magistrates consent/ and the churches are not at war: but one may/ hath/ and doth stand well with the other. Because the recital of a 100 differences is unprofitable: I leave it in the reader's judgement/ how truly/ and without brag, or figure I have spoken. But if for a 100 there were 1000 yet your cause should be never the better/ unless you can show/ that those differences pull with them/ a necessity off change off the form of election: which you neither do/ nor can.  
That one church should admonish another, and that there are 
Divis. 6. Pag. 183. Diuis. 4. pa. 173 & pa. 175.  many Hypocrites under persecution, is before showed. of wicked ministers which had their followers/ and lovers in the churches of God/ which notwithstanding keeping the profession of the gospel/ were in danger of the laws of the contreis' where they dwelt/ is spoken off almost through all the epistles of Saint Paul. yea it may appear through out the whole course of the ecclesiastical stories/ that many churches of Heretics partly Arians/ partly Nestorians/ and especially of the novatians/ were persecuted/ and banished of heathen Emperors/ together with the catholic church of Christ. And it appeareth plainly/ by that which hath been of both parts alleged out of Cypr. that certain church's about him/ did choose unmeet ministers. Therefore Master D. doth wonderfully forget himself/ when he saith/ that it is not like that the church in persecution will choose an unmeet, or wicked minister or that they which suffer persecution for the gospel, do it always of conscience, or off good conscience/ whereof the question is. And if he will admit none of these proses/ yet if he stand unto his exposition of the parable of the sour in the 13. of Saint Matthew/ forsomuch as (according to his saying) for one in the church which heareth profitably, three do the contrary: it must follow that even in the persecuted church/ there must be thrice as many evil/ as good. Unless peradventure he will say/ that our S. Christ spoke that off the estate of the church in time of the civil magistrate/ which was spoken off the whole estate of the church/ unto the worlds end: and especially to that present church/ which was under the cross.  
Is it true which you here affirm? can it not be otherwise in the time of persecution, but that church offices must be chosen by common consent? How cometh then to pass/ that you deny the election Acts 1. and 14. to have been made with the consent off the church? How happeneth it that you affirm/ that Timothe. and Titus of their own authorities, without the consent either off eldership/ or people appointed ministers unto the churches, in Ephesus, and Creata? that in Cyprians times (which were times of persecution) the election was made in some places without the people? verily he had need be a very kuning joiner/ which should set the● together for the impossibility which you imagine/ it is not such but that if the commodity of the church/ and the institution of God had so suffered: the churches would have submitted themselves/ and their voices in their elections/ unto the order of one. And besides that christian humility/ and love off advancing the truth for which they had forsaken all/ would have let them to that submission there was Ecclesiastical discipline to drive them unto it. Unless they would rather quittethe church/ which lightness doth not agreed with the zeal/ which you (for your advantage) ascribe unto a persecuted church.  
Here he denieth that he hath said, that the consent off the church in 
Cap. 6. Diu. 7. p. 184. etc.  the choice of the minister, can not stand with the time of the Christian magistrate. All the reasons which he alleged are to prove/ that the election under a Christian magistrate/ can nor be safely/ and conveniently committed unto the church: and even here he saith/ it is in these times pernicious, and hurtful. But that which can not be safely/ and conveniently done/ owghte not be done: much less that which is pernicious/ and hurtful. Therefore if you think as you speak/ you think as I have said: that the church's election can not stand/ with the time of A Christian magistrate. And your salve wherewith you would plaster it/ that the civil magistrate may ordain so if he list, is nothing worth. For if it be dangerous/ if it be inconvenient (as you say) to commit the election to the church: he owgte not althowge he would/ give it into her hands.  
Where you conclude that it was in power off the civil magistrate to order that matter/ because the Emperors made laws of the election, which they would not have done, if it had been ordered by the word of God: you are to far wide. For we read that Aza made a law/ that who soever did not seek the Lord/ should die. 
Chron. 2. 15. 13.  And there are laws made with us that men shall hear the word of God/ and receive the sacraments: and yet these things are commanded of God/ and unchangeable: neither is it at the pleasure off any magistrate to order them otherwise. If the reasons which Musc. bringeth for conformation of the election of the church/ can be answered/ then I will leave them/ and follow his authority: otherwise I account that although he wrastel with it with his left hand/ yet he upholdeth it with his right.  
T. C. concealed nothing subtly, in leaving out that the ministers ought to be blameless: he left out that which made nothing either for/ or against the purpose. If the A. had considered what I prove out of this place: either he should have omitted this/ or spoken it against his conscience. For I propounded only/ that the election of the church/ was both in the times of the Christian magistrate/ and confirmed by them: and the D. can not deny/ but this place proveth that fully. whether it be according to the doctrine of the Apostles/ or no: I showed before. Therefore this disputation is with yourself/ and with nothing which I set down. And if I had so set it down/ whether the decree off the Emperor would have borne it out/ considering that the sentence which I left/ ought to be shut in a parenthesis: I leave it unto the judgement of the reader. As for the reasons which are used for that purpose/ the one that he would have said decre●, and not we decree: is answered before. Tother of propounding three, out of which one should be known not practised at any time by the Apostles: is not sufficient to prove/ that the Emperor did not set before him/ their example: seeing that in the principal points/ and causes off the election (amongst which the choosers are the efficient) he kept himself unto the election of the Apostles. Yea if it be well considered/ it shall be easily perceived/ that he stuck too curiously/ and precisely unto the election Acts 1. whilst as there were two set up/ of which one should be taken: so in a grater multitude he would have three/ out of which he would draw one. And although the imitation of the doctrine of the Apostles/ were only as you would have it/ that the most pure should be taken: yet you can not deny/ but the Emperor took this to be the best way/ to have most incorrupt ministers: that the election should be made by the inhabitants of the city. Howbeit because I propounded only to prove/ that elections by the church have been confirmed by Emperors: I will not strive with him in this point/ because I will stop up the holes as much as may be/ whereat he breaketh out always/ from that which is in question.  
It were an evil interpretation/ to expound the inhabitants of the city/ the chief of the city: especially considering that the decree of other Emperors which followed/ ordained that the minister should be chosen by all the people. And considering that the novels in latin/ be corrupt in many places: it is unreasonable to expound the Code/ and other laws by them/ especially with such open violence. And it may be that the translator in steed of the heads of families/ put the heads of the city: but for this also I will not strive. What either against my cause/ or for yowres/ conclude you off that the Metropolitan ordained one of the three, which were chosen after that sort? Likewise what gain you/ if (which is untrue/ or very doubtful as that which hath authority of both sides) a man should accord you/ that Charles the great, was Emperor of the French, and not of the Dutch? These are nothing but baits to draw from the cause/ which you would so feign shift your hands of. The shelter also you seek in those words (according to the canons of that diocese) will not hold out the whether. For although it might be thereby gathered/ that there were several Ceremonies in the elections of the dioceses: yet it is plain by his words/ that the elections were throwgh out, made by the church: which is that we desire.  
Because you busy your self so much to prove/ that this was not decreed by authority of the word of God/ unless it be not that which I took in hand to prove: yet the words of that decree prove it fully. And albeit he said not according to the rules of the Apostles, yet he saith that in effect. For in saying that the church should use that election in the name, and authority of god: what is it else/ but that god hath so ordained: And in that he calleth it the honour of the church, which he giveth not him self/ but assenteth unto: he declareth it incident to the church. And what a reason is this/ Themperour for bad that any man should spoil the churches of their elections: therefore it was in the emperors power, to take away the election from the churches? Which is in this division for fear of forgetting/ four times repeated: and unworthy once to be confuted/ as I have before declared. And as that which the A. allegeth off the rest of the decree/ maketh nothing to prove/ that the election of the church is in the emperors power: so that which immediately followeth/ which he hideth in (etc.) doth manifestly prove/ that he held it for grounded of the word of God/ that the churches should have the election of their ministers. For he addeth/ Because we have been tawght by the holy fathers, that this thing (that is to say the taking away of the election from the church/ as the D. himself expoundeth it) is most grievous sin. If therefore it be grievous sin to spoil the church 
1. john. 3. 4.  of this honour/ and sin is defined the breach of the law of god: it followeth that the Emperor took it for a law of God/ that the church should choose her minister.  
And if I had been bent upon that point: I could have cited divers testimonies/ which Illyricus useth/ whereby this off the unchangeable necessity of the election by the church/ is confirmed. 
Lib. 4. instit ca 4. sect. 11. 5. cha. 2. se.  As that Leo the first affirmeth/ that no reason suffereth that he should be bishop, which is not chosen by the people: alleged/ and pressed against the Papists of Master Caluin to the same purpose. Which place how violently/ and unfaithfully it is wrested off the D. in the end of this treatise shall be considered. Also that he allegeth off Leo the fourth/ and Celestine which confirmed the same ordinance with this testimony. it is not convenient, and it is against reason it should be otherwise. Likewise out of the epistles of the Archbishop of Reins in France/ who divers times useth this saying/ he ought to be chosen of all, whom all must give obedience unto. Last of all a whole treatise out of the second book of Cusanus: which proveth of divers places out off the scripture/ Cyprian/ and canon Law: that it is no constitution of men/ but the law of God/ that the minister should be chosen off the church: and that whosoever doth not enter into the church by that means, entereth not in by the door, but is a these and a murderer. These I would have brought at large/ if I had not contented myself with proofs out of the scripture/ for the necessity of it: which I here have shortly set down/ because I see the D. more afraid of the judgement of the ancient church/ then of the scripture. so that although it be a slender buckler to shield himself/ that the constitutions in that behalf make no mention off any ground out of the word of god (whereas he should rather have showed that they protested in their laws of the indifferency/ against the necessity of it): yet even that buckler also is by divers testimonies/ taken from him.  
It is a poor falsifying off Platina, which is nothing but change 
Diuis. 8. pag. 186. 187.  of one word for another/ without any gain at al. For the emperors commendation serveth me as well/ to prove that the election of the church was allowed of/ and confirmed of the civil magistrate: as if he had commanded it. The second place of Platina proveth nothing less/ then that it was in the emperors power to change the election: seeing that he neither made/ nor altered any form of Election/ but only off two Elections by the people/ maintained that which was lawful. seeing also Platina/ supposeth no right of making the election in the Emperor/ but by the resignation of the Bishop: if that place prove any thing/ or tother after alleged out of Bale/ and Barnes: they prove that it was in the Bishops hand/ to order it at his pleasure. Which how untrue it is/ may be considered off that which hath been before spoken/ against the sole election of the Bishop: and off that which is here confessed/ that the Bishop of Rome began to usurp, that which belonged not unto him. For if he encroached upon the emperors right: no marvel although he broke in upon the possession of the church.  
Where he saith/ it is to be noted that the liberty for the people to choose, was granted by Charles the great: note also tha● that note/ is worth nothing. For where he would have it seem/ that he was the first that gave that liberty: he is confuted manifestly by the words of Charles/ a little before alleged: who speaketh of that election/ as of a thing accustomed of old/ and doth not make any new law thereof/ but giveth his assent unto those which were made. The words you ascribe to me (that the election pertaineth not to the Emperor) I have not: I kept the very words of Platina/ and neither added/ nor took away from them. Where you would seem to confirm out of Platina in the life of john the 13. by the word (creating) that the Emperor chose Leo: it is but an abusing of the reader. For Platina in the next chapter saving one/ where he speaketh of Leos election/ declareth that that creation was nothing else/ but a confirmation of the election made by the people/ and clergy.  
Therefore I said the Emperors permitted the elections 
Diuis. 9 pag. 187.  unto the churches, because by power/ and violence they might have taken them from them: wherefore it followeth not/ that he might without breach of God's law, take them from the church. When it is said in the stories/ that the Emperors permitted unto the churches the exercise off their religion: may it thereby be concluded/ that it was at their pleasure/ to have without offence of God restrained them of that liberty? verily I am ashamed to confute/ which the D. is not ashamed to object. Yet the testimonies alleged/ make no mention of this word (permission) whereby this advantage (if it were any) should betaken.  
You might easily have forgiven me this fault/ where the injury which I do is a 'gainst myself. For where I might have 
10. Divis. pag. 188.  used the authority of the Centuries/ to the utter rejection of the canon of the council of Laodicea; I used it only to bring the canon into suspicion/ whether it were made then or no. If I had had the book before me/ you might well think I would not have done myself that wrong. As for the Canon I have showed both by the conference of other counsels/ and authority/ of Caluin/ and Beza/ that it can not be understanded to seclude the people from the election/ but tendeth only to the directing 
In the 4. cap 7. di. pa. 193.  of them/ by the foreiudgement of the elders. And whereas to the authority of Calu. which I allege out of the Acts/ he opposeth his authority in the Institutions: besides that fault which he reproacheth me with/ off opposing the authors unto themselves: the untruth of it is showed in the former place/ neither can the A. have excuse off his most unfaithful dealing. For as well in the edition he followeth/ as in the later: this judgement touching the canon/ is not once/ but twice set down/ not simply/ but with confirmation of the decree of Leo the first/ and that in the same section/ out of which he hath fetched these words. If he will still speak against the son/ and deny that which he doth so plainly affirm/ touching the use off the church's election only in the Apostel● times, and times of persecution: I can do no more/ but leave it to the judgement of the reader/ referring him to the places where he saith/ that this election endured unto Cyprians times, and to his whole disputation whereby he goeth about to prove/ that this election can by no means be convenient for the prosperity of the gospel.  
The exception he maketh against the peace of the church/ in the time of Constantine/ because Maxentius, and Lycinius persecuted it, is nothing to the purpose. For Albeit the churches under them/ were in persecution: yet those under Constantine were quiet. And even under Licinius the church was at quiet for a time. 
Euseb. 9 lib: 9 ca  For Constantine, and Lycinius made a most perfect, and full decree for the peace of the church: and by their letters sent to Maximinus (which was then the persecutor in the East) procured peace there. So that the peace was general through the churches. And although that peace was in certain parts broken of: yet it appeareth/ that both Lycinius Maxentius/ and Maximinus being taken away/ Constantine obtained dominion 
1. li. Socr. 1 cap. 1. Theod. cap. 1. Diuis. 11. pag. 189. Theod. 1. lib. ca 8.  over the whole empire/ and pourchased peace unto the whole church.  
When the Nicene Council alloweth not of the election of the clergy/ unless the person chosen be both worthy/ and likewise chosen by the people: can there be any plainer words invented/ to confirm that I have set down? And where he would darken so clear a light/ by words which say that those things belonged peculiarly to Egypt, and to the church of Alexandria, as if this order of election by the church/ were not holden good in other places: he doth but as a man which hath made shipwreck/ snatcheth at every thing he can say hold off/ at all adventure. For Ariu● heresy bearing sway in those parts/ drove the council to enter into certain peculiar considerations of them: but that the election of the church/ was a peculiar thing unto those provinces/ it is too absurd. For what wisdom of the council should it be/ to permit that unto the people in those places/ which were most corrupt with Arianism: if other places of the world/ which were sounder than they/ had not that privilege? And if the foresaid words/ cause this condition so that the people choose, to be a peculiar thing unto those places: than it followeth/ that tother condition which is joined with it/ was likewise/ that he which was chosen should be meet to be chosen: which no man that hath not lost his senses/ will ever say. So that we still have the council off Nice/ confirming absolutely the election of the church. As for Grineus he maketh nothing to this matter. for the right off the clergy, shutteth not out the churches. 
Diuis. 12. pag. 190: li. 9 c. 14.   
The words of the tripartite story/ are as I have alleged/ and the words of Theodoret have nothing to the contrary: only the D. must say something. touching the next division I leave it to be judged/ whether I have showed that which the A. saith I have not.  
It is never a whit the better/ unless those you allege/ 
14 Divis. pa. 101.  and all the world should allow of that sentence you bring forth/ under Ambrose's credit. I used no contempt towards Ambrose/ neither have I so much as rejected him: only that sentence as blasphemns against the government of the apostles/ Idetested/ and it ought to have been maintained by confutation of reasons I alleged/ and not by bore authority. For if that had been enough to wipe away that place: I had a great deal more manifester against it/ then you be able to allege for it. For 
Upon the 4. Ephes.  of that place of Ambrose Caluin writeth thus. As for those things which are red in the commentaries of Ambrose, they are too childis he, and unworthy of Ambr. And you do but colour this matter with the names of Georgius/ etc. Which what they say/ I report me to those that have the books to see: assured notwithstanding/ that if they had any thing for you/ you would have made them speak.  
If you would have done simply/ you should have named 
3. li Eccl. Hier. c. 7.  Pighius/ who proveth diversity of government of the church/ as you do by this counterfeit place of Amb. As for the shift wherewith the D. Would help it/ that it was permitted to all men to preach, and minister the sacraments, but not without a calling: it is spoken witthowt reason. For what needed there/ or how can there be a calling/ when all were used to the service of the ministry? Seeing that calling is a separation from other by election/ and election is choice of some/ with leaving off other some: And the church of Christ is a body standing off many members/ and not all an eye/ or 
1. Cor. 12▪ 14.  any other one member. And for that there were many in the time of the Apostles/ which had not either knowledge/ or dexterity to teach: it can not be said without making the Apostles/ Author's of horrible confusion/ that they called all men to the ministery of the word/ and sacraments. That which is brought out of Bull. and Sleidan/ is but filling up of paper. For they condemn not the anabaptists/ because they chose their ministers: but that they excluded the authority of the magistrate.  
Your reproaches here are answered. I gave you as ready a way to find those testimonies/ as I had given me. If you took 
Diu. 15. p. 193.  it out of Musculus your self/ then might have noted the place: if you had it of others/ you should have named your collector/ as I did mine. Hear is occasion taken to repeat/ and translate a great deal out of Musculus/ but nothing to purpose. For I deny not/ but that he is off judgement/ that a man constrained by corruption of times/ may depart from the Apostolical election shutting out the people: but I deny that that is warranted by substantial arguments. Beside I have showed/ that here in words against us/ in his reasons he standeth for us. Which shall best be unsterstanded/ in that the D. being not able to lift the whole/ hath mangled them/ and snatched here and there a word: if peradventure untwisted he might deal with them/ which otherwise he could not break. For where I cited out of Musculus that it is a boundage unto the church, to have their minister thrust upon it without choice of the people: he answereth/ that subjection to magistrates is no bondage: wherein he toucheth neither heaven/ nor earth. For he should have answered as unto Musculus/ and not as unto me: considering that I alleged that out of him/ off whom he hath taken all his reasons. And therefore the note of Anabaptism, which he markethe all those with/ that say it is bondage unto the church, to have their pastor thrust upon them: lighteth upon Musculus/ which thus speaketh/ and affirmeth it constantly.  
Then his answer is abegging off that in question/ when he saith/ that subjection in lawful matters is no bondage: it being in question whether it be lawful for the magistrate/ to take away the election from the church. To that also out of Musculus/ that the minister chosen by the church may rule with a good conscience/ and the people obey unto him/ easilier/ then when he cometh in against their will: and thereupon concluded/ that forasmuch as that manner of election is to be followed/ which maketh most to assure the ministers conscience of his calling/ and that the people should be more obedient unto his doctrine/ therefore that only was to be holden: his answer is/ that he may be assured otherwise, and that the people otherwise will obey. which if it were true/ as it is not/ is not sufficient: for that he is not so easily assured/ nor they so easily obey.  
And where as he saith/ that he which is assured off an inward calling, need not to doubt of his outward: you should understand that the assurance of the inward calling/ dependeth a great part of the outward. for allbeyt the spirit of God worketh that assurance: yet he worketh by the outward means of the judgement of the elders/ and off the church/ touching his aptness for the ministry: whilst he considereth/ that that calling is not the calling off men/ but off God through the ministery of men. Neither is there any one (excepe those which are called extraordinaryly) which can have assurance of any inward calling/ but by the means off outward. For if he were assured that God had called him/ without the calling off men; he ought to obey his voice/ unless men would not call him. So that this not distinction/ but separation of the knowledge of an inward calling/ from the outward/ is not only absurd: but confirmeth the anabaptists/ which boast off an inward calling/ where no calling off the church went before.  
That he addeth/ if it be according to the form of that church where he is called: is but a begging off the question. For it being in question whether every calling that any church useth/ be lawful/ and seeing the minister can not be assured off his outward calling/ whiles it be lawful: it followeth that he which presumeth one/ must needs presume the other. Upon Musculus saying/ that the thrusting off the minister upon the church without her election, draweth bondage, etc. and the D affirming/ that such elections are meet for the church, under the christian Magistrate: I concluded that thereby great injury was done to the Christian Magistrate/ given off God not only to preserve/ but to increase the church's liberty. To all which first the D. answereth/ that he giveth nothing to the magistrate but which belongeth unto him, and that it is the magistrates right to use that kind of appoincting off ministers, which he thinketh good: which is a gross begging off that in controversy.  
Secondly he saith/ that the pastors had never better cause to obey their pastors, never less 'cause to complain off bondage, and constraint, than now when the pastors are chosen without the consent off the churches: which as it is barely said/ hath no reason to lean upon/ is confuted by common sense: so it is directly contrary to that Musculus his author/ affirmeth in the words before alleged. Only for the matter of liberty/ he allegeth that the true liberty of the church, consisteth in liberty of conscience, and freedom from false doctrine: whereunto I answer/ that it consisteth in them/ but not only. for to use assemblies for the ministering of the word/ and Sacraments/ etc. is a liberty of the church: And they are not mine/ but Musc. words: which calleth the election by the church/ a liberty, and the other a bondage of the church. I imagine not the corrupt estate to be in the laws, and gounernment of the Christian magistrate: but contrariwise give that virtue to his godly government/ that the estate of religion may be easily pure with him: which can be hardly/ or not without great danger/ pure without him. You if not in words / yet in deed/ make the government of the christian magistrate, always fraught with drunkards, Idolaters, whoremongers/ Atheists/ etc. 
pa. 176. & 178.  which was not so before he entered: which is nothing else/ then to make him Lord of misrule/ and in steed of a nursing father/ a fosterer of sin: which is the injury I complain off.  
Where you say/ that it is commendation unto the magistrate to correct such disordered persons: you say well/ but smally to the purpose/ smally to your advantage. For if the church hath by benefit of the Christian magistrate/ beside her own censures/ his help off civil punishments for repressing sin: she having better means to weed out the wicked than before/ may be more easily discharged of those unprofitable burdens. I have not therefore transferred the faults of men unto the government: but you have laid to my charge/ that which your self fault in/ and I before confuted. The form of election in the Apostles time, is not changed by the magistrates confirmation. For beside that that is properly no part of the election/ but a thing which followeth it: this right of confirmation of elections/ was in the Apostles. times. And although the practice was not general/ yet there being even in in their times some Christian magistrates/ as appeareth by that which hath been spoken: there can be small doubt/ but this form of election had in certain places/ even during the Apostles times/ his approbation. If it had not/ yet the form thereof is no more changed thereby: then the form of preaching/ and administering the Sacraments/ when the magistrate did not allow of them/ differeth from that which is now/ when he maintaineth them. so appeareth that the magistrates confirmation/ standeth without breach of the Apostical form of election: which he denieth.  
These trifling questions here/ albeit most unworthy/ yet are 
In the 4. diu. p. 163  answered almost all before. And if there were a legion more/ they are not only confuted/ in that this manner of election by the church confirmed by the magistrate/ hath been used more than 100L. years together: but also by the D. own words/ whereby he leaveth it in the prince's pleasure/ so to order it still. For if there were such inconveniences/ and absurdities as he imagineth: how hath the practice continued so long/ been thowght good by so many good Emperors/ and so many learned men in all those ages? Or if all they were a sleap/ or of so short sight/ that they could not see these inconveniences/ which the D. hath espied: how cometh it to pass/ that he leaveth it in the magistrates pleasure/ to establish this order encumbered with such inconveniences, and absurdities?  
For the challenges whereby he would give to understand/ that I have not faithfully alleged Musculus: the first is/ that I affirm that he went about to defend the election used where he was by this, that it approached to the election of the primative church, which he saith is untrue. But the reason wherewith I confirm it/ that Muscu. saith it vaus made not by one minister, but by all, by the voices of the Senate, where some number of the people were: He toucheth not. The second that I call the choice of the minister by the church the Apostolical form: yet they are not my words/ but Musculus his authors/ which calleth it 
In the title of the Minist.  the old, the fytteste, the divine, the Apostolical, and lawful election.  
Where he saith/ that Musculus doth not call the other elections, forced: I would gladly know/ what difference there is between forced, and thrust upon. For Musculus in the same title/ maketh 
Obtrudi.  all one a minister thrust upon the church/ and a minister which is not chosen off the church/ in these words. The form of election used in the Apostles times, is conformable to the liberty, and privilege off the church, whereof Cyprian made mention: and that form of choice, whereby men began to be thrust upon the people of Christ being not chosen of it, doth agreed to a church which is not free, but subject to bondage. Hitherto it hath appeared that although Musc. judgement be not wholly for us: yet the reasons which he allegeth for this cause/ are such as can not be shaken. Now I will further show/ that as there is some disagreement between ours/ and his judgement: so there is further distance/ between him 
Titulo de Ministr. elect.  and the D.  
First therefore he saith/ that as the election by the church endured until the time of Christian magistrates: so the election made by the church/ and confirmed by the christian magistrate/ endured until that time/ that the bishop of Rome having wrong out/ both from the Emperor/ and the people their right in the election/ took it all to himself. The D. denieth this stoutly. Secondarily Musculus maketh the disorders of elections by choosing unmeet persons/ or by corruption through gifts/ or partial favour/ to begin then especially: when the election taken from the people/ came into the bishop of Rome/ and his suffragans hands. The D. clean contrary/ that these disorders were especially/ in the elections by the people: and best avoided/ when the election is called to the will/ and beck off one bishop. Thirdly Musc. maketh it an unlawful form of election/ when it is made of the prince: but master D. saith/ that it is in the prince's power to make election of ministers himself if he will/ or commit it to other's though he list. Fourthly Musc. helping himself of the authority of Jerome/ saith that there was no election in popery: because they were made without the knowledge of the people/ and condemneth also the election of the bishops made by the Canons/ for the same cause. But M. D. saith it is a most convenient/ and sufficient election: which notwithstanding in that point/ is all one with the election in popery. Last of all/ wherein (lieth a great weight of this controversy) he doth not say simply/ that this form of choice by the church is unmeet/ and inconvenient for this age off he church: but that it could not be by and by/ and out of hand restored: and after a little/ that it could not be in all churches/ by and by restored. Whereby he giveth to understand/ that in some places it might be forthwith restored: and in other/ all men ought endeavour to bring it in again/ withal convenient speed. So appeareth that although Musculus be pretended: yet Pigghius/ and Hosius be his storers.  
Here cometh to show the manner of the election of the Tigurine church/ whereon the D. heareth himself so much: which 
pag. 139. Bull. upon 1. Tim. 4.  (as Bullinger whom he citeth for his author reporteth) is this. After he had showed that in all lawful ministries of the word/ there is required that with innocency of life/ he should be learned/ then chosen according to the word of God/ thirdly after he is chosen/ and presented to the church/ have imposition of hands: he addeth/ Heruppon the Tigurine church, having taken her leave off the inordinate ordination of the popish bishop, chooseth off the learned, and off the ministers, of the Senators, and off the council of the 220. that is to say off the common people: which out off the learnedest, and honestest deacons, should present certain that are to be made Bishops, unto the Senate, and people. of which when the Senate, and people have chosen one: they send him unto the church over which he is set, and with him a counseiller which doth commend him unto his church. Then the chiefest of the bishops of that city, or other place where this new bishop must be, maketh a Sermon, and in public prayer made off the church in this behalf, laying on his hands, commendeth the church unto him. Wherein how many things are favouring our cause/ and openly fight against the D. upon that I have before noted/ of the election of the churches of Berne/ I leave to be considered.  
although the D. (as his use is) speaketh off one thing so 
Cap. 7. Diuis. 1. pag. 197.  often/ and that in the same division/ and with spaces put between/ so that it is hard to give answer with any convenient understanding off the reader: yet I will as well as I can/ refer his scattered sayings to certain heads. whereof the first is/ that he did not mean to prove by these places of Timothe, and Titus, that the election belonged unto one man: whereupon he chargeth me/ with wilful depraving off his answer. It must be therefore considered/ if we may hold this wet eel by the mouth. The Adm. saith/ in the primitive church no minister was placed in the congregation but by consent off the people, but now that authority is given to the bishops hands alone: the D. answereth by the place of Timothe/ and Titus. Now this being a commandment/ and by his judgement both directed only to Tim. and Tit. and to them as bishops: it followeth that he hath taught / that Saint Paul commandeth that they/ and in them all bishops/ should only choose. Whereby are condemned all election by the church/ as those which have intruded upon the bishops possession.  
Where he saith/ that the Adm. doth coulorably affirm, by these words th'authority is given to the bishop alone, etc. that the right of ordering ministers doth at no hand appertain unto the bishop: I would know what word there is here/ where this colour is to be seen: and what light he is able to give us/ to make it appear. The other sentence wherewith he would prove it/ followeth after/ neither was he come unto it. If he did therefore confute that: it is as strange as if a man should shut off/ and spend his arrows/ or ever he come within the reach off his enemy. And I think there is no example of such confutation/ unless he had coupled that place with this/ and comparing them together/ set upon them both at ones. beside that it is Absurd/ that where the Adm. here spoke off the election: he answereth off admission.  
Here cometh to be considered the A. dealing in the end off the book/ where (charged with unfaithfulness for that as in this 
pa. 796.  place/ he would have in synuated/ that the Adm. would have the people choose only) to prove himself guiltless/ he allegeth a place of the Adm. wherein it is said/ Then the election was made by comen consent off the whole church. To this answer I rep●lied/ that it was his oversight/ that he took the people which is but a part of the church/ to be all one with the church which is the whole/ conteininge as well governors of the church/ as the people, in which reply the D. crieth out off manifest falsification. Why so? forsooth because I left out this word whole: that is to say/ because I spared him/ and kept back a piece of his folly/ and that with disadvantage off that which I pretended to prove. For the word church simply set down/ doth comprehended as well the governors/ as the people: how much more doth it comprehend them/ when this word whole is added? And if it were falsely concluded of him against the Adm. that they would have the ministers to be called/ allowed/ and placed off the people/ because they said/ that the election was made by comen consent off the church: how much more is it falsely concluded of these words of the Adm. the election was made by consent off the whole church? Thus appeareth that the D. together with his divinity/ seemeth to have lost his comen sense: it is time therefore to carry him out of the school to some other place/ if peradventure by some sharper discipline/ he might gather up himself again.  
In the same place also/ upon that I showed that in proper speech/ the church/ and people differed/ having there declared that difference to be/ in that the church is the whole/ and the people a part thereof▪ this complainer of falsification saith/ that I seem to separate the people from the election of the ministers, for that I will not have the word church in the Adm. comprehend the people: which is manifestly against that I set down. For I precisely reprehended him for that upon the word church, used off the Admon. he would have maintained his false insinuation against them/ that the election should pertain to the people only: considering that the word church cited of him/ was the whole: and the people one part/ and necessarily comprehended under it. This is not only falsifying/ but flat facing.  
Now to return back/ I ask what he needed twice in this division/ in so many/ and grievous words complain off corrupt dealing? seeing himself flatly affirmeth/ as much as I say of him/ and otherwise can not maintain his cause. The truth is/ that he abstained then from the words electing, and only, because he saw he had nothing to maintain them: which now by my reply/ he was driven to put down/ or else to forsake his cause. Wherein as he dissenteth from the truth: so he is driven to have a new combat with himself/ in that he here maketh it indifferent/ and at the discretion of the church in time of persecution/ to make elections either by one/ or by the multitude: which is contrary to that he hath before in these words. Lastly in time of 
Diuis. 6. pa. 183.  persecution when they have no magistrate, they be all equal, neither is one bound to obey another by any civil law: none hath cheiff, and especial care over the rest, as magistrate to compel: wherefore it can not be otherwise then, but that such offices should be chosen by common consent. Where he allegeth Zuing. and Bull. out of place/ and contrary to the title of his chap. to prove the calling of certain by one Apostle: 
In divi. 2. pag. 156.  because they be Evangelists which we have no use off/ and for that I have showed/ that they both are clearly of this judgement/ that the minister ought to be chosen with consent off the church: I will not much busy myself with this matter. But unless the Apostles did sand these Evangelists of their Embassages/ to know how the churches did/ and such like things as required no tarriance/ nor execution of any set ministry in the churches whereunto they where sent: yet that they ever set them to rule any congregation by their private authority/ is not to be esteemed. whereof this is an apparent reason/ that Timothe was not set over the church of Ephesus by Saint Paul only/ seeing that Paul confesseth that he received imposition of hands/ 
1. Tim. 4. 14.  by the eldership. Thother also here mentioned being Evangelists/ it is like the order used in one/ was in tother. Neither do the words I left the at Creta, prove it. for he doth not say/ that he ordained him: and if he had/ yet it must be understanded/ that he did ordain him as he had done in other churches/ with consent off the church.  
And that this is not my judgement/ it may appear by that I have alleged out off calvin/ and Musculus/ in the former book/ and Bez. in this. neither could Bull. be thought to have here 
Pa. 40. Divis. 4. Pa. 135. Divisi. 2. pag. 156.  such meaning/ as the D. giveth him: that the Apostles alone should set over the church's ministers/ as appeareth by that I have alleged. So that unless he will make Bullinger contrary unto himself: these words that Paul/ and Peter called certain/ can not be understanded off placing them over any congregation/ no further than being chief in that action/ they directed the judgement of the churches. there remaineth zuinglius/ which I marvel the D. will charge me with/ seeing he himself will not stand to him/ in the place which he hath alleged. For that which he hath left out/ off Mathias chosen by the whole church: is directly against that/ which he hath in divers places before affirmed.  
After many vain words against the reply unto the places of Timothe/ as that it is against th'authority off learned writers, against the whole course off the epistle, against the circumstance of the place: he allegeth that the most of the precepts contained in that epistle, do properly pertain unto Timothe, as he is a bishop. Which is untrue/ especially in that sense he taketh a bishop/ which the apostles never knew off: for there shallbe scarce two sentences found in the whole epistle/ which agreed not to every pastor. And set aside those which concern teaching/ there are very few not comen with him/ unto an elder which only governeth. Beside divers belonging unto the whole church/ as well as unto him: and some rather to other parts off the church/ then unto him, yet if the most should properly belong unto him: how can he prove that the sentence off not laying one of hands rashly/ doth only belong unto him? he hath cited many to prove that Saint Paul saith/ it doth belong unto the bishop, which is not denied: but that it doth only belong by this place of Saint Paul/ which is denied/ he hath not one. Nay divers of his authors here alleged/ have the contrary off that he pretendeth to prove by them. For Bull. I have said. Calu. denying that either Paul/ or Timothe did any thing in elections/ without the consent off the church/ touching the bore ceremony of laying on the hands/ he doubteth whether it were done by one/ or many. And Jerome although he say/ that the ordination belonged to the bishop yet I have showed in the former book/ that he confesseth that that was by no order of God/ or rule of the Apostles (by which he confesseth that the bishops were equal unto the rest of the elders) but only by constitution of men. Therefore he is untrwely cited/ to confirm that by this place off the apostle/ the bishop hath either the election/ or ordination unto himself.  
As for chrysostom/ and Oecumenius/ unto whom is added Beza pag 226. Where this is repeated: I answer at ones/ that it seemeth violent that the Apostle using the word eldership/ should shut forth those/ which were properly called elders. And where I alleged pag. 226. that Chrysostom meant not by those words/ to put a distinction between elders by age/ and office: I was deceived. The occasion was/ because he doth so in the same epistle/ where he had no more cause than here: and not looking upon the the place when I wrote/ I took one for another. But it is to be noted/ that their interpretation is directly against the D. for chrysostom affirmeth/ that the Bishops of 
Acts 20. 28. Upon 1. Timo. 4:  Ephesus (which appear to have been divers in the Acts) did lay on their hands: and Beza/ that all those which had the ministry of the word, are meant by the word presbytery: So that by their judgement/ one only did not ordain, nor lay on hands: both which the D. affirmeth. As for the other sentence of chrysostom/ with Theophilacte/ unless Paul left unto Tite to do those things which were joined with most honour: it followeth not/ that he left them to be done otherwise/ then himself did them.  
But he doth to much abuse his reader/ which would make him believe that he drew this from the godly writers/ which he hath from professed enemies of the truth. For these are the reasons off Pighius/ which to prove that the bishop only should 
Lively 2. Hierar. eccle. ca 3. & 9 & 5. li. ca 10 & controver. 16  choose/ and not the church/ alleged these two places off Tite/ and Timothe which the Answerer hath. Thus the first reason off the D. with all the authorities wherewith he hath walled it/ is gone to the ground. for as for Ambrose testimony/ it maketh neither hot/ nor kolde: no man doubteth but that Timothe ought to be circumspect, in ordaining ministers.  
The second reason is/ that if the election of a bishop had off necessity pertained unto the people: them S. Paul would not have written to Timothe of it, but unto the churches as well as unto him. As though there were not many things in those epistles/ necessay for the churches to do: or as though they inscribed unto Titus'/ and Timothe/ are not written for the instruction of the whole church/ even in that very sentence of imposition of hands. For when Saint Paul taught/ that Timothe might not lay on his hands rashly: he taught the whole churches/ that they should not choose any rashly. What is I beseech you in Saint Luke's two books/ dedicated unto Theopilus: which doth not aswell pertain unto all sorts of men in the church/ as unto him? That the holy ghost therefore entituleth his books sometimes unto particular persons/ was not that the Doctrine contained in them/ should more pertain unto them/ then unto others: but either because he would lift up their head above the rest/ or for some other particular 
In the argument upon the epistles.  circumstance ..  
And in Master Caluines judgement/ they were both written rather for instruction of other in the church/ then for Timothe/ and Titus. For there being great resistance made unto those young men/ off divers in the churches of Ephesus/ and Crete: the Apostle to support them against their adversaries/ and to gird them with more authority/ so entitled their epistles: that they might know that those things they did/ and taught/ they neither did/ nor taught of themselves/ but by his commandment. As therefore all things contained in these Epistles/ were to be known of Timothe/ and Titus: so were they all to be known off every one in those churches. And as there are things in them/ the exercise whereof concerned Timothe/ and Titus only: so there are other/ the exercise whereof/ did at no hand appertain to any of them.  
As for the circumstance of the place, which he saith is against my reply: he showeth none. But there is a manifest circumstance against him/ which the Apostle by and by addeth/ keep they self pure, and communicate not with the faults off other, as if he 
1. Tim. 5. 22.  should say/ although thou canst not hinder the ordaining off insufficient officers of the church: yet keep they self pure. Moreover if this writing unto Timothe alone/ that he should lay hands of none rashly/ should give him alone authority to ordain/ and elect pastors: than it should follow/ that not only the church/ and elders of Ephesus/ but the bishops which were there together with Timothe/ should have been shut out. 
Act. 20.  which though the D. dare not say/ beside that this hold is gone: he must recant the sole election/ and ordination by Timothe.  
You may easily put me out of doubt, off: that which I never dowbted/ and which I have somewhere confessed: that by the ceremony off laying on of hands, the whole form of ordering is understanded. But off that you should prove/ that in that place of Saint Paul it is so understanded (although it is not that/ which can hurt our cause) you bring not so much/ as may induce unto any the least suspicion. Your reason that he did elect, because he did appoint: is to simple. For albeit to choose be to appoint: yet every one which appointeth/ chooseth not: no more than it followeth/ that because every man liveth: therefore every thing that liveth/ is a man. And I would gladly understand/ by what masters of our tongue you can prove/ that these two words to appoint/ and to ordain/ differ. if they be all one/ why seek you advantage in the one/ which you can not find in the other? But if it be absurd/ to say that ordeininge is nothing else but to call, to choose, and to appoint: it is as absurd/ that to appoint is nothing else/ but to call/ to choose/ and to ordain.  
I am well content you expound the place unto Timothe, of putting on of hands/ by that unto Titus, of appoincting town by town. For I doubt not but that which the eldership doth/ or one in the name off the eldership after the election/ is therefore called appointing/ or ordaining to the ministery/ because it is a solemn investing/ and putting him in possession off that/ whereunto he was before chosen. although Cal. be directly against him in this question/ whose judgement is/ that it doth neither belong unto the bishop to choose himself alone/ nor yet 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Chrysost. Oecume. Beza. Bulling. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Upon the fourth c. 1. Timot.  to ordain by himself alone: yet to help to overthrow the right signification of Presbytery/ he is content to follow him/ at the lest doubting: leaving so many both old/ and new/ which all take that word for a company of those which govern the church. And it is certain that those forms of nouns/ are used to signify either a society: or else the place where a society meeteth. And calvin himself interpreting that place/ where he had better occasion to consider of it/ seemeth to have retracted his judgement: for thus he writeth. They which do here take this word (presbytery) for a noun collective, and for the college of elders, in my judgement think well. although all things considered, I grant an other sense will not evil agreed: that is, that it be the name off the office.  
if those words as I appointed thee, be referred as your learned interpreters will have them/ by laying on of hands, and prayer: they 
Tit. 1.  help you nothing. And therefore I will not strive about it. Where you say/ Musculus meaning is not much otherwise, meaning thereby to conclude/ that he ment not to bar Timothe/ and Titus of their sole election: let his words then be judge. Having showed how Mathias/ and the Deacons were chosen by the church: he saith/ there is no doubt but the Apostles kept that manner of ordeininge. and alleging the example of the election 
Tit. elect▪ Minister.  of the 14. of the Acts/ headdeth/ therefore after fasting, and praying (which was wont to be done, in the congregation of the faithful) they ordained elders, which were first chosen of the faithful. And this form of electing, and ordaining elders, and bishops, the Apostle commended unto his fellow workman Titus, and Timothe saying, for this cause I left the at Crete, etc. for who would believe that he ordained, that Titus should do otherwise, then both he, and the rest off the Apostles were accustomed to do. And although these words declare so plainly/ that Titus and Timothe chose not themselves alone/ but by consent off the churches/ as more fuller could hardly be devised: yet to put all out off doubt/ that he ment that Timothe/ and Titus conformed themselves to the examples of the Apostles/ in the church's election joined together with theirs: he doth immediately add this conclusion. Therefore both by the example, and ordinance of the Apostle in the primitive church, elders, pastors, bishops, and Deacons were in the Ecclesiastical meetings chosen off the people, by lifting up of hands. Where the reader may consider what truth he hath to look for at the D. hands: which denieth things that have so manifest/ and so easy confutation.  
And where he saith/ that herein although he hath left Caluin, yet he hath followed the judgement of other learned men: he may see that he hath not left Caluin only/ but Muscul. Bulling. and Zuing. As for his learned men, I think verily that Pighius/ Hosius/ and others of that stamp excepted/ he is not able to allege one/ to confirm that Titus/ and Timothe had only the election of the ministers. For those alleged/ to prove that Timothe/ and Titus did ordain/ are nothing to the purpose: considering no man denieth that: but that they ordained alone/ was to be showed. And ●● he had showed that they alone ordained/ which he shall never do: yet is not the election of the people thereby shut out: forsomuch as election/ and ordination are several things.  
What either godliness/ or honesty is in him/ which dare so bore faced deny/ things so openly untrue: I will leave to be judged 
Divis. 2. Pa. 202.  of that which is said/ touching that the election doth not belong unto the bishop alone/ but unto the church. Here I will show that not so much as the ordination/ can by the testimony of thancient father's/ or councils agreed unto one bishop only: which is another point that he would have the reader believe/ and therefore ought either to have showed it/ or else to have held his peace: seeing none ever denied/ that the bishop hath to do in the ordination. first it appeareth in Cyprian/ that both in the province where he was/ and in all other provincs almost/ the next 
1. lib. 4. Epist.  bishops of that place where there was a minister to be chosen/ came to ordain him whom the people chose. The great council off Nice/ decreed that he should be ordained off all the bishops of the province/ at the least of three. Moreover August. showeth/ that when the donatists accused Sicilian/ for that being chief bishop of the Province of Carthage/ he waited not 
lib. cont. Donat. post. coll. cap. 5.  to be ordained off the chief bishop of Numidia: the Catholics did answer/ that it was the custom of the Catholic church/ that the bishop of Num. should not ordain the bishop of Carthage/ but the bishops which were next. And in an other place of the same book/ he showeth that it was the custom that 12. bishops should be at the ordination of him/ which was chosen bishop/ and pastor of any church. Which appeareth in the same book to have been observed/ in the ordination of Sicilian.  
And that it may appear/ that this was by continual consent/ and Harmony of councils decreed against the ordination by one bishop: that one place of Theodoret though there were no more/ might suffice/ where he saith/ that Euagrius came to 
1. lib. ca 23.  the office of a bishop unlawfully/ because only Paulinus ordained him/ contrary to the tenure of many canons which provided that they should not be ordained/ but by all the bishops of the province/ or at the least by three. Thus it appeareth that by all antiquity/ not only the election made by one bishop alone/ but the ordination also is flatly condemned/ as unlawful/ and contrary to the custom of the Catholic church/ and old Councils▪ whereby is manifest how vain it is/ which is cited out of Caluin/ and others/ to prove that because the Metropolitan ordained/ therefore he ordained alone.  
You answer not to the difference I show to have been/ between your bishop/ and Jerome's▪ you tell that I took my word (only) out of Illyricus/ as you did your word off (excelling) which is untrue. For I gathered it out of Jerome's manifest words/ which denieth that the bishop differeth from an elder/ but in ordination: not knowing whether Illyricus hath that word or no. Neither are you helped by the college election. Because that there is great difference/ between the liberty which may be used in civil elections/ and in Ecclesiastical/ confirmed even by placing of bishops with us/ whose ordeiners are not also choosers. I have showed how the election/ and ordination are done off divers: and the next divis. handleth that matter/ neither is there any thing in your manifold questions/ to the contrary: then all which one only reason had been a great deal better. Neither forget I myself one whit/ in that I alleged out of the councils of Carthage/ and Toledo: where the ordination is given to the bishops, but no word that the election belongeth unto them. Howbeit because I see you having not to answer/ seek starting holes: I will not suffer you to run out thither/ neither will I make your any question between us/ whether the bishop may both choose/ and ordain▪ it shall be enough for us/ that he can not elect alone/ and without the church/ nor ordain alone without other ministers.  
T. C. hath many oversyghtes, because the D. doth not/ or will not see/ what he setteth down. You had to prove that the election belongeth to the bishop: to conclude that you bring/ that he ordained. Thereunto I answered that it followeth not/ but rather the contrary/ that he ordained/ therefore he chose not. I said not simply that the contrary followed/ but rather the contrary. Your example of the virtues, is altogether unlike/ they being so zincked that he that hath one/ hath all four: which is not in election / and ordination by your own testimony/ confessing that the election may be the people's/ but not the ordination. The example of the foot, and hand, declareth manifestly that I reasoned against that false conclusion of yours/ which upon that the bishop did ordain/ would needs have it follow/ that he also elected. You get no advantage in that the word of election/ is sometimes taken for ordination/ and contrariwise. For although the words be confounded: yet the things remain still separated. And if you think that the right of election is gotten to the bishop/ because in steed off saying the bishop ordained/ it is said the bishop chose: it followeth that when in steed of saying the people chose/ it is said the people ordained/ the people also gain the right of ordination. And if you should gain it/ yet be you never the nearer your purpose/ unless you be able to show/ that the bishop alone/ without the church did choose/ or without the college of elders/ and other bishops did ordain. Therefore in making so great account off this/ your hookie is greater than your harvest.  
Hear be vain quarrels against the quotation/ because it is 
Diuis. 3. pag 204.  said the gloss upon the Act. and not the ordinary gloss: all which return upon Illyricus. Belike to avoid the place which saith precisely/ that the people ought to choose/ whereunto the D. answereth not a word: although it be warranted by example of the Apostles/ and directly to the cause/ which is that the bishops ordination/ ought not to shut out the peothe people's election. The D. upon the conjunction disjunctive/ 
ad Rust. mom  would prove Jerome falsified. For that in so much as he saith/ if either the people, or the bishop choose thee to be of the clergy, he would conclude/ that the bishop did choose without the people. But he should remember/ that if thereby the bishops election be established/ without the people: by the same reason the people's election of the minister is established/ without the bishop. If he dare not say that/ then let him understand/ that I have faithfully followed the meaning of Jerome/ and that this word (or) is not always a note of separation. Which that it may yet more clearly appear/ I will show the like manner of speech of Leo the first/ whose words are, no reason suffereth that they should be counted amongst the bishops, which 
Dist. 62.  are neither chosen of the clergy, neither desired of the people, neither consecrated of the Metropolitan with the conprovinciall bishops. Here unless the bishop use a disjunctive/ as if it should be sufficient to have any of these/ and not all together: yet it appeareth both by the decrees off other (Which founding themselves of those words/ have decreed that the people ought to choose with the clergy) and plainly by his words after/ that he ment they should all be joined together. For he addeth/ when the question shall be to choose the chief priest (which he called before the Bishop) let him be preferred whom the consent off the clergy, and people shall require: and after showeth the reason/ why the people's consent ought to be had.  
I grant that I took Musculus words/ for Jerome's: yet if that make to the purpose/ I had red the place. And Jerome 
jerom. epistola ad Pam. adverse. error.  himself/ in an other place/ hath a sentence not much unlike. For in a epistle against the bishop off jerusalem/ he reproacheth him that he despised the laity deacons/ and elders/ for that he could in one hour as himself boasted/ make a thousand clerk, whereby appeareth the corruption which Muscu. speaketh of/ and which is now used with us/ off making so many at a clap at the bishops pleasure only/ both the people/ and the elders being neglected: to have been in those times/ and yet not to have gotten such footing/ neither to have been so universally done/ but that the bishops which used that manner/ were thereby subject to shameful reproach. And how cometh it to pass/ that you sand Musculus here without all answer? Which doth both flatly condemn all such odinations/ which are made off the bishop before election of the church and bringeth Jerome for his warrant/ referring Jerome (which saith/ there was no election of ministers at all) unto that the bishop did appoint 
ad Nepo.  whom he lifted/ without the consent off the church. As for the place you city out of that epistle: it maketh not to purpose. For it is not denied that the bishop hath to do in the choice of the minister: but that he alone hath to do.  
How Cyprian is wholly ours in this cause/ hath been showed: 
Diuis. 4. pa. 205.  this exception also is answered. only here it is to be added/ that in the epistle out of which the D. citeth this example of Aurelius/ it is expressly said/ that Cyp. did not choose him reader of his own authority/ but by authority of his fellow ministers which were present at that time. That he saith here/ and allegeth after out of 
Diuis. 2. pa. 212.  Gratian'S gloss/ that the people's interest in elections, consisteth in bearing witness off the good conversation of the ministers: beside that it is a popish shift (as I have showed) sufficiently before confuted/ 
Diuis. 6. pa. 164.  it hath no ground in the word testimony, whereout he would pull it. For by a figure off metonymy he noteth the people's voice: because by giving it/ they gave also testimony what they the wght of him. Where it is to be noted/ that the D. giveth no more to the church of God/ then S. Paul giveth to strangers from 
1. Tim. 3. 7. Epi. 100  it/ of whom he willeth that the bishop shall have a good report.  
There followeth the open violence done unto August. words. Where first let the reader observe again/ that this wresting of the example of Eradius/ against the election of the church/ was taken from Pighius/ as appeareth manifestly. But for answer 
Contr. 16  unto Pigbius/ and the D. it must be understanded/ how for that election of Eradius to be bishop after August. decease/ there were assembled two bishops besides August. 6. Elders beside Eradius/ with the rest of the clergy/ and people. For what purpose all these/ if it were in Augustine's power to choose only? After it appeareth that Augustine did call the people to have there consent/ because he had experience off trouble/ and discontentement of the people of Millen: for that Severus the bishop there/ did appoint his successor before his death/ without speaking any thing thereof unto them: which could not be avoided off Augustine/ if he ment to choose any against the will off the people. For it had been better for him to have appointed one as Sever us did/ without communicating the matter unto them: then in communicating it/ to take one against their wills. Again where the D. upon those words I will have Eradius my successor, would have that Augustine only had the election of him: he is confuted by and by after with his own words/ I say that I will have him, because I know that you will have him. And after he willeth that the public notories/ should as well note their voices, as his will in this matter: that (saith he) your consents fall not to the ground, or become void. Whereunto also pertain/ the subscriptions of them which followed. Which although the D. saith are referred only unto the petition of Augustine, to be discharged off the hearing off civil matters: yet the words sound otherwise. For when he required their subscription to those Acts: it is clear that he must be understanded/ to have spoken off both those matters. otherwise he would have required subscription to that Act/ and not unto the Acts.  
And where in the end for an other reason he addeth/ Augustine was appointed bishop, when Valerius bishop off Hippo was alive: I see not how it maketh for him one word. For if he think that Valerius of his Authority did it/ he is utterly deceived: seeing Possidonius 
Possidonius in the life of Augu. Epis. 225.  writeth/ that Valerius spoke unto the people/ to provide/ and to ordain an elder of the city/ and showeth how he was ordained by the consent off all the people. Which thing if it were not more lighter than the none days/ off this Epistle of August. yet it might appear by other/ as where he declareth/ that Pinianns was ordained off the people/ elder off the church/ against his william. more might be alleged/ but these shall suffice. saving that I must put Master D. in remembrance/ how he marvelously forgetteth himself. For granting me before/ that 
Pag. 191.  the council of Carthage whereat Augustine was present/ decreed that the election should be made by the comen consent off the people/ clerks/ and bishops in the same province: he must here needs confess/ that either Augustine did there join together in election with the church/ and the clergy (as they term them): or that he broke the order off the Council/ which could not be without his fault/ although the election of the church had been (as the D. esteemeth it) but a thing indifferent. And the truth is/ it appeareth that August. had in that election/ a express regard unto the decree off the council: which caused him beside the eldership of the church/ and people/ to sand for two other bishops/ to be assistants. Whereupon the reader may see/ how there is no light off words so clear/ which Phighius/ and the Ans. misled/ will not give th●nser to darken.  
Besides that Ambrose calleth it a divine election which is made by the church/ which he could not unless it were by the institution of God: the whole discourse off the Epistle teacheth/ that the election of the people is there accounted off/ as necessary. For when the church of Vercella did linger the time in not choosing a bishop/ when it was also infected with Heretics: why did not Amb. at lest by way of Lapse, take the election unto himself/ but writeth unto them/ reprehending them that they did not ask for a bishop/ as other churches were want to do?  
Gregor. Nazienz. speaking there off divers elections/ wherein still the people bore one part/ and that without controlment: 
In the or. upon the death of his father.  speaketh more for that election in that one place/ then the D. hath hitherto/ or in the residue of his treatise is able to show. And where he might seem to have somewhat nipped at it/ in showing how at certain elections some of the people were contentious: he healeth that even in the next sentence to this/ saying that at that time it was to be feared, jest he ought to judge the popular regiment better ordered, than their own: and after maketh mention off the corruption of those/ which were fellow elders with his father. but observe I pray you again the D. faith fullness/ which expoundeth the word churches, the clergy. Where learned he thus to expound? Let it be that as in the scripture sometime/ so in the ancient fathers the eldership of a church/ is called by the name of church: where can he ever show that the eldership/ or as he termeth it the clergy/ of one only church/ whereof Greg. speaketh/ is called by the name off churches? In steed therefore that he should have translated/ both the richer, and they off great authority in the church, were clean from that evil: he hath translated/ the churches that is to say the clergy, etc. taking the nominative plural/ for the genitive singular. Which although in the latin tongue/ if one take not heed unto the sense/ may deceive: yet when the D. had the Greek (which hath 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  off the church) before him/ as it seemeth by citing the greek in the same place/ by and by after: either he understood it not/ or willingly perverted the meaning. So I leave to the reader/ whether I have reasoned to the purpose, or no: and whether you beside words/ have any thing at all.  
As in certain other places/ so in this/ in steed off that I 
Divis. 5. Pa 207.  should have taken the quotation which came after/ I taking the quotation in my paper book which went before/ was deceived: and for the 6. and 7. of Socrates'/ set down the 6. and 7. of Eusebius. This verily is the error which the D. maketh so great triumphs of. For the first of the places/ it appeareth how Chrysost. 
Socr. 6. 2. ca  (there called john/ elder of the church of Antioch) was chosen bishop of Constantinople by comen voice of all both people, and clergy: and how he had his election ratified/ by the Emperor Arcadius. For the seventh book/ it appeareth that Chrysanthus 
Lib. 7. ca 12.  was chosen bishop of Costantinople/ by the people. And when as Sabbatius (because Chrysanthus hide himself/ and would have none of the bishopric) got certain bishops to ordain him into it: the story showeth/ how the people sought Chrysanthus out/ and put out Sabbatius. divers other examples there be/ which I leave: as I would also have done these/ if it had not been to have showed/ the vain triumphs off the D.  
And where he saith/ that there is nothing in those 6. and 7. of Euseb. which maketh mention of any election by the people, but in one only, which he goeth about to wipe a way: that thou mayest know the D. changeth not his skin/ I will note them in a word. To leave therefore the election made by revelation/ where he saith the election was 
Lib. 7. ca 30.  made by the ministers, and pastors: it is manifest that the churches had to do in the elections. For in the endorsement of the letters/ whereby an other was appointed at Antioch/ into Samosatenus room: as well authority of the churches is pretended/ as of the bishops/ elders/ and deacons. Where also he would elude the other place/ first because it was a miracle, then for that by the word brethren, it is not certain whether the people were noted: for the first/ 
Euse. 6. 10  it may appear how vain it is/ seeing the story saith/ the brethren came together to choose a bishop. The miracle therefore which came unlooked for of them/ and after they were assembled/ was to direct them in their election/ and not to authorize them to choose. For authority they had before: else they would not have come together for that purpose. As for the other/ it is a boldness too insufferable/ without showing any one example/ and contrary both unto the phrase off the scripture/ and aucient father's/ showed in my former book/ and of Eusebius himself/ as may appear 
pag. 88 Eus 7. l. c. 11. & 24. Diuis. 6. pa. 209.  divers times in some one chapter.  
In all these sentences/ set down out of Euseb. there is not a word for the D. nor against us. The D. confesseth that Origine taught being a lay man in the church publicly: he can not deny if he would/ but that he taught by the appointment of bishops. These two being put/ what followeth but that in those days/ he was counted a lay man/ which took upon him the ministery upon the bishops appoinctinge only? And that he abuse not his reader with such rovinge treatises/ my reason I will set down in a few words. That appointment unto the ministry/ which was thowght not to inhable to be minister/ was thowght insufficient: but the appointment of the bishops only/ was thowght not to inhable to be minister (for Origene that had that appointment/ and authority/ was still counted a lay man): therefore that authority only/ was than thowght insufficient. Eusebius therefore giving me this hold/ which the D. is driven whether he will or no to confess▪ there is wherewith to uphold that I have said. For if the bishop's appointment of Origine to preach/ did not give him any degree in the 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Ordinationem presbyterij non est as se cutus.  ministry for what cause did it not/ except it be it at I have assigned? his translation of Euse. words/ when he was yet not ordained minister (wherein another point off this matter standeth) is not warranted. For by this means/ he must take one of his words/ which properly signifieth the choice by lifting up/ and used sometimes of ecclesiastical writers/ for laying on of hands/ for a degree: which hath no example. Likewise he must take the other/ which I have showed to signify the company of all the governors of the church/ for the office off one only elder: which wanteth proof. Beside that Muscul. which translateth it/ seemeth to have followed the sense I have: where if he had followed the D. he would have done otherwise. For in steed of he had not appointment of the eldership, he would have said the degree of an elder. Where 
Ordinem pre●●yteratus.  he allegeth/ that Demetrius suffered him to teach at Alexandria, when he was a lay man, belike thereby to prove/ that the reprehension of Demetrius/ was not to be regarded/ which did himself that he found fault with in other: it maketh nothing to this question. For it is enough to that in hand/ that it is confessed both by Demetrius/ and Eusebius (Which taketh the defence of those/ whom Demetrius rebuked) that Origene was a lay man/ although appointed to the preaching of the word/ by the Bishops. Whether it be lawful for a lay man to teach the word of God in public place/ is an other question.  
The next sect. I leave to the judgement of the reader. Of this 
Chap. 8. the 1. diui. pa 21.  great heap which followeth/ the most part have been brought before/ some four times at the least: they have been threshed/ and there is no yield/ it shallbe seen that the rest/ be no better than their fellows. the places off scripture alleged here/ are all answered saving only that of the Acts 13. which is borrowed of Hosius: who useth this place/ against the choice by the church. 
De Sacramento or dinis 54: cap.  For answer whereunto I say/ that it is nor question there of such election/ as we spoke off: that being the election of God/ and not of the church. I for my part rather think/ that it was the voice of God by the prophets/ or one off the prophets: and for proof allege the story in the Crome. which may be commentary to this. For as the church then in distress/ by public prayer/ and 
2 20 cap: 3. 13. 14. 15. verse.  fast/ received comfort through a Prophet/ whom the Lord suddenly in the midst off the congregation/ raised amongst them: even so the church of Antioch being in great distress/ and fear off ruin off the church of God/ partly by the sword/ and famine/ partly by contentions/ and searching remedy by puhlike prayer/ and fast: received by a Prophet which the lord stirred up amongst them this oracle/ whereby he showed them a singular means/ not only to maintain/ but to amplify the borders of the kingdom of Christ. If the S. will not receive this interpretation/ but take the holy ghost to have sounded immediately from heaven: yet it helpeth him nothing/ there was no place left for any election/ but needs must Paul/ and Bar. besent.  
Iff therefore the bishop have the spirit of prophecy at any time/ whereby he may have such a certain/ and unfallible direction / as this was/ we will less stick with him for his sole election: if not/ it is in vain to allege this example: saving that it maketh much against him. For if the lord would have the approbation of the whole company of Doctors/ and elders in that election which himself had made/ and where there was no danger of error: how much more owghte the bishop's election/ which hath so many banks both off ignorance/ and evil conscience/ to put him from the way of a good election/ be sustained by the judgement of others. And it is untrue that it is plain, that the church was here shut forth. For unless it was neither in the ministers power/ nor the people's/ to change this election: yet the fast there mentioned being general/ and the account of their embassage/ and success thereof being afterward made 
14. Act. 27.  unto the church: it is not unlike but in the approbation which that election could admit/ the church also had her part. That which is here added out of Beza/ which the D. would have so diligently noted: is but to waste paper. For we hold that it is most convenient/ the people should have the ministers/ and elders go before/ and direct them in their elections. But it is most directly against the D. For thereby appeareth that Beza is off that mind/ that unless the people be ignorant/ and untractable: yet they ought not to be cut of from ecclesiastical elections/ but directed/ and called to some moderation.  
of that which remaineth in this division/ the canons called 
2: Divis. pag. 212.  the apostles/ that off Antioch/ Eusebius/ and others which speak off ordaining/ make nothing to this question which is off election: considering that it hath been showed/ not only that ordination differeth from election: but also that the councils from time to time/ have confirmed the election by the churches. So that though there have been any elections made by the bishops alone: they have been directly contrary to the tenure of the councils. In the council off Nice (unless his boldness be greater/ then in the other canons) having changed the words of the council/ and in steed of ordination/ put election: yet hath he no more warrant off the words of that canon/ then off the others. And albeit the general answer is more than sufficient/ to resist such naked assertions: yet even in this council/ it is manifestly to beshewed/ that that canon is to be understanded of ordination/ as it is distinguished from election. For in the letters which the Synod of Constantinople/ wrote unto the council holden at Rome/ it is thus written. Touching the care off the 
Theodo. li. 5. ca 9  government of every church, you know that the old decree, and appointment of the fathers off the Nicene council, hath prevailed from time to time: that the inhabitants in every province, taking to them if they will, and if it be profitable, those which are next adjoining, should make the elections. According to the tenure whereof understand you, that the residue of the churches with us, are governed. Whereupon we have in our general council, set our bishop of Constantinople Nectarius, in the sight off the Emperor Theodosius, and clergy of that city, the whole city giving their voices thereunto. And so goeth forward with the election of the bishop of Antioch/ and confirmation of the bishop of jerusalem. Where it appeareth manifestly/ not only that the ordination given by that canon to the bishop/ did not shut out the election of the people: but that it implied necessarily/ an election by the people/ and clergy joined with it. For the Synod saith/ that those elections which were made by consent of the church/ were made according to the decree off the Nicene council. And if it should be as the D. pretendeth/ that the council off Nice meant to give the whole interest of election unto the bishops/ and to take it from the church: then could not that council have said/ that 
Lib 2. Histor. tripart. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Dist. 67.  they made the Nicene council the squire of their elections/ when they admitted the suffrages of the people. And that there be no doubt heroff/ I will set down the words of the council off Nice/ which are these. Let the people choose, and the bishop approve, and seal up the election with them.  
For Gratian'S distintions with his gloss: first themselves give me defence enough/ against all the force wherewith they assail this cause: as when he saith/ that the other priests under degree of a bishop, may be ordained off their own bishop, so that both the citizens, and the rest off the priests give their assent. And the gloss upon the second canon of that distinction/ saying/ the Bishop alone may give the degree unto priests: addeth/ alone that is to say, without other bishops. Then I 
In cattle. test. veritatis.  could oppose the authority of Illyricus: which showeth plainly/ that the words cited out of the 63. distinction by the D. be a mere lie off Gratian. Howbeit I will not give either Gratian/ or his gloss that honour/ as once to vouchsafe him off any answer in the church of God. And that thou mayest know good reader/ what manner of man he was/ of whom the D. plunged seeketh help/ with commendation also of his interpretation/ even where it is condemned of protestants writers off our time/ as here thou seest/ and further shall appear: I will in a word advertise the.  
That whether he were the brother of Lombard/ tharchepiller of Antichristes seat/ borne with a third brother of a strumpet (as they writ which cover the shame of his birth) or lombards bastard/ conceined by a Nun/ which by revelation accompanied herself with Lombard: whether so ever I say he were off these/ this is certain/ that in gathering the canons of the councils/ he endeavoured by might/ and main/ to make them agreed with the Patron of the adulterous church of Rome. Therefore in going about/ to reconcile thee government of the elder churches off christ/ with that upstart Synagogue of antichrist/ as it were to make accord between the owl/ and the raven: there is no kind of false dealing/ neither in adding/ changing/ dimynishinge/ false interpreting/ nor other corruptions/ and that contrary to the clear light of words/ controrolment of records extant to confute him/ wherein he hath not carried away the bell of unshamefastness/ from all that ever wrote before him/ or in his time. of these corruptions there are almost as many both witnesses/ and gath erers of our own cotrey men/ and of others: as have at any time been exercised in this field of confutation/ off the popish religion. As for his glossers/ as the Pope's hired servants/ such as flattered for a crust of bread/ saying yea to his yea/ and nay to his nay: they shall go together with their master. And let even this place of the D. before a say off the glosses impudency/ in expounding Leos words. For where Leo speaking of election/ setteth forth the interest 
Tom 1 Concil. Epist. Leonis primi 82. & 90. Diuis. 2. pag. 264. Diuis. 4. pag. 205.  of the churches with all these words/ that the minister owghte to be chosen by the consent off the people, by the voices of the people, by their good wills, and that none be ordained which they desire not, which they wish not for, which they require not: all these words this good gloss bringeth me unto this/ that the people should only give testimony of his good behaviour, which is before confuted. And if he say here that I deal not equally/ which bar him off that authority that I have sometimes used myself▪ he ought to remember that a foreign testimony/ and witness off an enemy is glorious/ and that I having war in these questions of the discipline/ not only with him/ but with the Papists/ might with commendation strike the● things with their own sword/ which he (having herein the same cause which they have) can not do.  
That which is gathered off Ambrose's election/ out off Theodorete/ is most untrue▪ for it is manifest/ that Ambrose was chosen by the whole church of Mylane/ and never a word to prove/ that the Bishops had the right of election: but the contrary by the words/ and circumstances of the story. And whereas upon the bishops offer unto the Emperor to appoint one/ the D. would make the interest of election/ a running/ and walking right: first as the emperors gave unto the bishops/ things which were unmeet for them: so it was no marvel if the bishops sometimes offered unto the emperors/ 
Theod. lib. 4. ca 5.  that which pertained not unto them. Which may well appear there by the answer off the good Emperor/ which refused it as a thing which he had not to do with/ and unmeet for him. Secondly it is very like/ that for the diversities of judgements which were amongst the people/ the bishops perceiving that they should run into displeasure of one of the parties/ would have been glad to shift off that evil will/ and lay it on the Emperor/ which was better able to bear it. last of all/ they offered the Emperor that/ which he willed them to do: which when it was to ordain only/ as the issue declared/ and not to choose/ the church's election can be by no means prejudiced/ in that offer off the bishops. As for Chrysostom's 3. book de Sacerdotio, beside that I doubt not but if it had any thing of Value for you/ you would allege it: it is the same authority which Hosius 
De Sacr. ordinis.  allegeth/ and allegeth in gross (as the D. doth) against the church's election.  
To the D. first reason against the church's election/ which standeth in that there have been great contentions, and diversity of 
Diuis. 3. pag 213.  minds amongst the churches: I answer/ that the Apostles when there fell a contention/ and a jar amongst those of the church/ never entered into any such deliberation/ off cutting away 
Act. 6.  the church's liberty: contrariwise they esteemed the nearest way to heal up the breach/ to give them some thing more in that election of Deacons/ then was ordinary. For where they were accustomed to show the way in other elections/ and by ripeness of their judgement help the weakness of the People/ there they suffering the church to go before/ followed with their approbation. And not only in respect of that election/ but if a man will consider the whole estate of the primative church in the Apostles time: it shall appear plainly/ that if there were ever good cause/ to take away the church's election through contentions/ and diversities of minds/ that was in the Apostles times. For the churches of God then/ almost throughout the world standing of Jews/ and gentiles/ and there being such a natural hate between those two people's/ as whatsoever the one would/ the other commonly would not/ and contrariwise: if the Apostles had judged that for reason/ which the D. esteemeth high wisdom: they should never have permitted any election unto the churches. For albeit the knitting of both those peoples into one profession of the gospel/ did mortify that deadly hatred/ which was naturally in them: yet notwithstanding it appeareth by divers places off the scripture/ that there were such remnants 
Act. 15. 24. Rom. 14. 15. Ephes. 2  of that hatred left/ that neither the Apostles themselves which were so wise peace makers/ and so kunninge tiers of love knotes/ nor yet the ministers/ and elders which had received the first fruits of the spirit of God/ could keep them from most dangerous contentions. And Master Zuinglius of whom the D. would seem to receive some succour in this cause/ even when their churches were most dangerously infected with Anabaptistry/ 
Ecclesiastes.  and many nourished it inwardly which durst not utter it openly: teacheth that this form of choice by the church/ was to be kept. Neither is it to be passed by/ that Basil noteth 
Basill. Epist. 58.  that one Anthimus/ in choosing a bishop without the church's voices/ filled all Armenia with sedition. Whereunto add the testimony of chrysostom: where he asking why Peter communicated the election with the Disciples, answereth/ lest the 
Upon Act. 1●  matter should be turned into a brawl, and have fallen to a contention. When he assigneth the cause of contention (clean contrary to the D.) that the election was not communicated with the church.  
Secondarily if the church's elections should be taken away/ because off contentions which happen in them: Monarchies which often have declined into tyranny/ and been abused to oppression of the subjects/ should have had an end long a go: and other such most lawful/ and necessary aids off this present life/ ought to be taken away/ as those which are abused. And to come to ecclesiastical affairs/ councils by the D. reason ought to have no place in the churches off christ/ off which it is said/ 
Nazianz. Ep. 42. ad Procop. Bas. 102. Epist.  that there was never seen good issue of them: and that through marvelous ambition/ and desire off contention in them/ things out of order were not remedied, but made worse.  
Thirdly the examples of the contentions which the D. hath heaped up together/ beside that they are in part not off the church with it self/ but off the church with hererickes/ which is her commendation/ as in the election of Ambrose: beside that also it is noted specially/ that the people of Alexandria was off a Mutinous/ and stirring nature/ and therefore unjustly objected against the whole estate of the church: beside this I say/ these examples alleged by the Answ. are so far from weakening the church's election/ that they make it stronger. For notwithstanding those contentions had/ under both Christian magistrates/ and Bishops: there was not only no counsel taken/ to bar the churches of their election: but were (as hath been showed) councils from time to time/ to ratify it. And if the emperors/ and Bishops had not thowght it necessary/ that the churches should have interest in their elections/ or had thowght (as the D.) that both the churches were put in hazard of false teachers/ and the commenwealth of uproars/ by reason off popular elections: it had been great folly/ or madness rather/ to have suffered that which they might have so easily remedied. Which opinion of the necessity of the church's interest/ as it hath appeared by divers examples before alleged: so may it clearly be seen/ in the letters of the good Emperor Constantine/ to the citizen's of Nicomedia. which although they had chosen to his great grief/ 
Theodo. li. 1. c. 19  one Eusebius Bishop: doth not therefore take away the election from them/ but moveth to a new. And albeit they had abused their right/ in choosing such a one as was an Arian/ a runnigate from his former bishopric/ a railer of the Emperor: yet he confesseth still/ that it belonged unto them/ to make a hew election.  
Fourthly/ what will he say to that/ that the people bridled the rage of the scribes/ and pharisees against the truth/ and ministers 
Math. 21. 26. Act. 5. 26. Sozo. li. 7 ca 7. Theodo. li. 2. ca 7.  thereof/ in that they were a frayed of them? that the Bishop of the church being an Arrian/ the people have been for the most part Catholic? That also the Emperor hath displaced the catholic bishop/ chosen by the church/ and placed an Arian? Which disorders being often committed by the Bishops/ may by the D. rule/ as well deprive them of their interest in ordering/ and confirming/ as the people in choosing. What also that the evil disposition of the people/ hath for the most part proceeded off the moving off their evil governors? So that people divers times good/ when the rulers were naught/ hath been seldom naught/ when their governors were good. beside all this/ there are other faults off Simony/ off choice of most dissolute/ and most unlearned ministers/ wherewith the sole election of the bishops is so infamous/ and the church's election scarcely to be touched with: that many contentions of the people/ would draw les blood of the church/ then the choice only off one such blind/ and lame minister/ as many off the assemblies of the bishops for that purpose/ send forth by whole armies.  
last all/ as in other reasons before I have showed/ that the D. defending the same cause which the Papists/ useth the very self same armour/ bournished by the names off Zuinglius/ 
Insti. lib. 4. c. 5. se. 2. 3.  Caluin/ Beza/ etc. so here he hath the very self same reason/ which the Papists used for the bishops sole election/ whereunto Caluin maketh answer. For unto the Papists saying/ that the people were shut forth because off the contentions/ and tumults which happened often times: he answereth confessing there were such motions/ and stirs/ but that the taking away of the church's election/ was brought in for a remedy against those stirs/ he affirmeth to be a plain lie. and showeth that there were other ways to meet with those disorders/ as to punish them which should move any tumult. And so goeth forward in shewing the true cause off the falling away of this liberty/ from the church. To all the rest of his reasons I have answered before at large/ saving that he hath embossed out this last/ with a sentence 
Hosius li. de legit. iudic rerum eccl.  of chrysostom upon john/ drawn from Hosius: who useth this testimony against the election of the church. Where both Hosius/ and the Ans. should have learned/ to have put a difference between a confused multitude, and the church off God. For I would ask off Hosius (how shameless so ever he be) whether he dare define the church of God/ which is the spouse/ and body off christ/ to be a certain thing full of tumult, and stirs, consisting, and rashly compacted for the most part of folly, etc. and yet either the answer is not afraid to say/ that this is the definition/ that is to say the very nature/ and unchangeable property of the church of God: or else if he understand it of some other company/ he hath said nothing against the election of the church. And verily I can not see/ how he could speak more vilely/ of the most disordered rout/ off most godless people: then he seemeth to do off that assembly/ which being endued with the wisdom of the most highest/ he calleth a thing consisting off follies: and which being the pillar of truth he likeneth unto waves off the sea. By which similitude the scripture setteth forth the estate of the reprobate/ or at least of the wicked which have as yet no 
jam. 1. 6.  society with our Saviour.  
Therefore to conclude/ seeing that the election of the church in her ministers/ hath ground out of the word of God/ both in commandment/ and continual practise/ both in the old Testament/ and in the new: considering also it hath allowance off comen reason/ the approbation of all times after the Apostles/ as long as there was any sincerity/ in peace and percution/ both by councils/ and emperors decrees/ both by godly writers ancient/ and of our time: and considering he hath not so much as browghte an example to the contrary/ out off any auror/ and if he could yet the same is condemned/ not only by the word of god/ but by continual good harmony of councils/ one in the neck of another divers 100 years: and forasmuch as the Ans. hath this question of election by the bishop only/ comen with the Papists/ and hath had both sword/ and buckler ministered him out of the most grossest Papists: I conclude/ that both the church ought to have her consent in the election of her ministers: and that the sole authority/ off bishop's creating ministers/ is unlawful.  
Unto this question of election/ and ordination belongeth the 2. chapter of the 4. tract. of ceremonies in ordaining: of which the 2. Division being answered/ and the first/ and third unworthy of answer/ there remaineth only the fourth. Against that he allegeth/ that the bishop might as well say receive the holy ghost to the ministers made by him, as to use the words of the lords supper, 
Pag. 228.  I replied that there was a commandment for the one, and not for the other: whereunto he saith/ that there is no special commandment, Which is no answer. For if the general commandment of keeping that whole institution/ do comprehend this being apart theroff/ then the argument standeth. That he bringeth off the minister, saying without inconvenience This is my body, and in recital of the commandments, thou shalt have no other god but me: is nothing worth/ seeing the inconvenience is taken away by preface/ off God spoke these words: Christ took bread, etc. The place of Timothe with Master Caluins' exposition/ is utterly impertinent. For it is not question whether God doth give his gifts to them which he calleth/ or no: but whether he giveth them by this means/ of saying receive, etc. where he saith/ that the apostles when they laid on their hands, likely used these words: it is untrue / considering that Saint Luke/ pursuing the lest of those ceremonies which were used/ made no mention off it/ being in the D. judgement/ worthiest of all other to be followed. And if they had used it/ yet it followed not that the bishops may do it: considering that it was proper only to the Apostles/ to give the gifts of the holy ghost/ by laying on of hands.  
Where he saith/ that christ commanding the sea to be quiet, and breathing upon his disciples, confirmed his divinity: I answer that he did the same/ in commanding to receive the holy ghost/ which otherwise he would have prayed for/ as at other times when he gave testimony of his humanity. Caluin although he use not the same 
4. lib. Instit. 19 c. 29. sect. joh. 11. 43. Mat. 9 5.  example/ yet useth the like when he compareth the imitation of these words/ receive the holy ghost, with those being said to Lazarus dead in his grave/ come forth, and to the Palseie man/ rise, and walk. And his breathing being the Sacrament of those words receive the holy ghost: they must off necessity be referred to the same end. So that if our Saviour would declare his divinity by one: it was his mind to do the same by the other. And if because he instituted a minister by those words/ they are to be used: then the breathing also must likewise/ considering that he used that/ for the confirmation of the words. Where he saith/ they contain a perpetual promise, of the presence of the spirit, with those which Christ shall call: even so doth the commanding of the sea/ etc. to be quiet/ contain a perpetual promise'/ that the wind/ and sea should rise/ and fall/ for the profit off those which be the Lords. But as there is no promise/ that that shall be in abating their rage/ so foundainly as our Saviour Christ did: so there is no word/ that the Lord will give his spirit/ by pronouncing off this sentence.  
The bishop (saith he) hath no meaning to command. Neither had the Papists: but why he should speak one thing/ and mean another/ he can show no reason. therefore our fault being in this point/ the same with the Papists: hath the same Censure off writers/ inveighing against this unadvised imitation. That which is said/ that if any patron off calling is to be followed, our saviour Christ's ought: is a gross begging of that in controversy/ and then apparently refuted/ in that our Saviour Christ gave new names in his ordination/ sent forth two by two/ commanded 
Mar. 3. 16. 17. Luk. 10. 1. Matt. 10. 10.  they should carry no weapon/ etc. which can have no place in our ordinations. Where I alleged that the reason was not one in these words/ and in the words of the supper/ in that the minister doth not command that the bread be the body/ but saith it is: he answereth nothing.   

Tract. 3. and 4. according to the D. That all ordinary ministries/ are annexed to a certain place.  
THe A. in heaping up certain differences/ between the office of an Apostle/ and Pastor/ answereth nothing to the 
Diuis. 1: pag. ●16.  matter. if this be true which is set down/ that they be like in this/ that a certain church is to a pastor/ or a minister/ which the twelfth place was then amongst the apostles: the reason off the Adm. is maintained. For then as it was not lawful for them/ to have proceeded unto a new election/ if judas had not fallen from his ministery: so it is not lawful to ordain Pastor's/ so long as the place is full. likewise if the apostles would not undertake any election/ but where they had the light/ and guide off the word of God/ to show them the way/ not only what manner a one/ but when he should be chosen: much less is it lawful for the Bishops. The first of these being so clear as the A. durst not plainly deny/ he doth notwithstanding push at privily/ saying/ that Paul, and Barnabas were added above the number off twelve. But he should have known/ that they were added by the Lord/ and not by the church: where he should have showed that the apostles/ etc. chose the thirteenth Apostle. And we deny not but the Lord may now (if it seem good unto him) choose some Minister/ which hath no certain place.  
That which he objecteth off Epaphroditus/ etc. to be apostles/ such as we speak off: is an absurd begging off that which is in question. Where against the second point he saith/ that there is no such thing in the Election of the Pastors, as that in their election, the scripture should be fulfilled, etc. although there be not so particular a word/ as of choosing one into judas place/ yet there is a certain rule/ in obedience whereof the scripture is daily fulfilled. And so falleth also his other exception/ which supposeth that off one example, we make a general rule. Considering that we crave no further help off that example/ then the same was compassed by the word off God. The A. granting the distinction 
Divis. 2. Pa 217.  off ordinary/ and extraordinary ministries/ and yet denying that it can be warranted by the scriptures poursueth his former train/ off shrincking the scriptures. seeing it followeth thereupon/ that some truth in Divinity/ cannot be warranted by the word off God. The question moved off the Elders/ is out off place: the answer whereunto shallbe differred/ unto the proper treatise. The absurd speeches which he hath here/ and in the next Division of apostles/ Evangelists/ and prophets/ come to be examined in the answer to his third chap.  
Hear first he trifleth with his reader/ whilst he supposeth 
Diuis. 4. pag. 229.  that I ground the function of Elders/ upon the 4. of the Ephes. and that jesteme that place a perfect rule of Ecclesiastical functions, when as not only I have no syllable sounding that way: but have declared the contrary/ in that by a long discourse in the question off the archbishop/ I have showed that that place is only of the ministries/ occupied in the word. That which he speaketh here off overseeing shepherds/ and watchmen/ belongeth to the 6. Division where it is repeated. That off one shepherd having many flocks/ belongeth to the question off having many benefices. It remaineth to maintain that part off the Division/ which setteth down the Doctor of the church/ as a several member from a Pastor. Which may appear by that the Apostle placeth them both to the Romans/ and Ephes. as divers. 
Ro. 12. 7. Eph. 4. 11  beside that the gifts differing/ whereby those functions are executed/ and there being apt to teach/ and therefore meet for the office of a Doctor/ which have no grace in exhortation/ or moving the affections of the hearers/ and therefore not so fit to be Pastors: it must follow/ that the functions be divers.  
And where the Ans. opposeth unto us the judgement off one/ or two: it is easy to show/ not only more authorities off private men/ but the use off the Elder churches/ even from the apostles time: Epecially in Alexandria/ where the distinction of the Bishop/ and Doctor of the church/ is so often observed by the ecclesiastical story: also the custom continued in cathedral churches (as they are called) wherefrom time to time beside the Bishop/ hath been a reader. And if these were not distinguished: them must it needs follow/ which in an other place the A. denieth/ that there were ordinarily two Bishops in one church/ considering that beside the Elders/ and him which they commonly called the bishop/ there was also a Doctor. Neither aught it to be any hindrance to this distinction/ that Saint Paul coupleth the Pastor, and Doctor together, where as he sundered the rest that go before, by this word Some. For the conjunction doth not couple them in signification/ but maketh them only couples of the liberality off christ/ towards his church. Especially considering that both this conjunction And, is oftentimes a note to couple several members of one division: and the apostle would rather have said or Doctors, then and Doctors, if he had meant to make them all one. But all this had not needed/ if the Ans. would have stood by his former word/ in the writing entitled The Doctor's book. For in saying/ there that the Apostle in the Epistle to the corinth. speaketh only of apostles, Prophets, and Doctors, Leaving out Evangelists, and yet Evangelists, and pastors necessary: he doth manifestly confess/ that these functions differ between themselves. Neither can he say/ that he spoke there according to my sense. For I had not then either spoken/ or written any word of that matter.  
Thus in that he is called the Doctor of such a church/ in 
pag. 234.  part is answered the question how it can be showed, that he is tied to a certain church. And for further answer/ when as admitting that there is such an office/ he can not deny but the institution of it/ is amongst other spoken of unto Titus: all those ministries being appointed to a certain town/ and congregation/ it followeth 
1. Tit. 5.  that that office is likewise. Moreover considering that exhortation / and doctrine be necessary for the entertainment of a church in the true service of God: in that S. Paul parting these between 
12. Rom. 7. 8.  the Pastor/ and Doctor/ and placing the office of the Pastor especially in exhortation/ ascribeth that off teaching principally to the Doctor: it followeth that the Pastor being tied unto a place/ the Doctor must also. whereby is likewise answered his other question/ how it can be proved, that the doctor was given in aid off 
pag. 234.  the pastor. for the pastor being by the bands of his vocation/ especially tied unto exhortation: a supply of teaching being needful/ it must be fetched at his hands/ whose proper profession that is. Last of all/ hereby appeareth/ what an abuse it is in the university/ that they are created doctors which not only do not the office/ but have not so much as a certain place assigned to teach in: which amongst other/ be the two principal things I mislike/ as unlawful. Where in the end off his book he saith/ that it 
Pag. 781.  were cofusion, and Barbarism to take away such degrees: he doth shameful injury to divers reformed churches in Savoy/ and Switzerland: where all kind of learning/ and good behaviour flourishing/ those degrees are not. But it is to be noted that together with the churches/ Musculus especially hath his part in this charge of Barbarism, etc. The churches not having the other degrees in arts/ which are indifferent/ give no sentence off the Doctorshipp: but Musc. doth plainly declare his misliking. For having spoken against the popish Doctor's/ he addeth: wherefore I have 
Upon 1: Cor. 12.  often marveled, what divers notable ministers of Christ mean, that they glory so much of the title of an university Doctorship: as though any authority came to their doctrine thereby. Where it is known that those whom he meant/ were modest/ gloriing no further/ then that as a means to draw more credit to their ministry/ they received it: which Muscul to wcheth them for. Therefore unless he had been driven headlong/ he would at lest have left his degrees indifferent: and not such as without which/ no godly honesty/ nor civility can stand.  
In the next division his answer is unsufficient. For the reason against reading Ministers/ is not only because they are appointed to no certain place: but for that they are utterly without all ministery/ and whether ever they shallbe or no/ it hangeth either of their own/ or off their patrons pleasure. So that if either he forthincking himself/ like the shop better than the church: or the patron will keep the door shut against such insufficient men/ which the bishop opened so wide: or (as sometime falleth out) they can not agreed of their market: it comet to pass that he is made a Minister/ which either can not/ or will not/ not only not fulfil/ but not so much as lay hand off that ministery/ whereunto he was appointed. Contrary unto the rule of Saint 
1. Timo. 3. 10.  Paul/ that leaveth not this in choice: but commandeth precisely/ that if after trial they be found blameless/ they should exercise their ministery.  
To prove that there may be a roving ministery/ and some which may have the walk of a whole province/ here is first alleged 
Diuis. 6. pag. 220.  that the apostles visited the places where there were several Pastors. Whereunto the answer is/ that that function of the apostles was extraordinary (as shall appear) and therefore at no hand to be drawn unto our times. Secondly is brought the example of Darius/ which beside 120. governors set over the several provinces, made three other to oversee the●. Whereunto I answer/ that the Lord hath in assigning offices of the comen wealth/ left the liberty unto men/ which he hath not done in offices of the church. The reason whereof is manifest: considering that they both are off greater sufficiency to ordain offices/ for the commodities of this life/ then for those of the life to come: and the error in appointing of them/ is not so dangerous. Eusebius showeth how 
Lib. 4. de vit. Constant.  Constantine invented new degrees of honour/ to pleasure those which were about him. This not being forbidden in civil government/ I think the A. dare not say it is lawful to be done in the government of the church.  
Hereby also is answered the surmise off kings which being called sheapherds, should by this means have their dominions restrained unto the government off one city. For the scripture having not determined/ whether there should be a Prince over every city/ as it hath that every assembly should have a pastor: and the enmities/ and assaults against the civil estate/ not being so great/ and dangerous as against the spiritual: it can by no means follow/ that the tying off the Minister unto one church/ should enclose the Prince's aucoritie in the circuit off one city. But it is to be observed/ that both the D. reasons/ off the apostles visiting/ and of Darius' policy/ lead to Rome. For it followeth upon them/ that one may have oversight of all the Ministers: seeing that both every of the apostles/ had authority to visit any church through the world/ and even off those three which were over the governors of 120. provinces/ Daniel was the chief. And albeit we leave no place/ either to those roving/ or owtgrowne ministries: yet the sheapherds/ and watchmen want not therefore their overseers, considering that the Ecclesiastical Senate/ doth not only watch over the body of the church: but every one of them over an other/ and especially over the minister. off these also as every one in brotherly equality aught to admonish: so iontly they have authority not only to admonish/ but by Ecclesiastical censures to chastise the default off their minister. If they also fail/ the Synodail assemblies have interest/ as I have before alleged. And if the fault be such as requireth civil punishment: the Magistrate is the watchman/ appointed off God for that purpose.  
Where he saith that a similitude maketh a matter plain, but proveth not: when I added/ they were arguments drawn off the nature of things/ whereunto the Ministers are likened/ and are for the most part used by the holy ghost himself: I prevented that objection/ whereunto the S. saith nothing. But if they prove nothing/ because they were similitudes: then his answers to overthrow them/ being bore similitudes/ and in things wherein they be compared most unlike/ be insufficient. The rest off the second section of this division/ which is almost a whole side/ is pertaining to the question of Residence/ and off having two benefices. Unto these arguments which I used/ as how they should know his voice, when they can not hear it? acknowledge him, when they can not know him: follow him when they can not see him go before? or how he should heal their diseases, when he can not possibly know them? he answereth 
Diuis. 7. pag 222. 1. Tit. 5. Act. 14. 23.  not a word.  
That S. Paul in commanding to appoint Elders through every city/ ment every company of the faithful/ rising unto a number convenient to meet in one assembly: it is manifest by the place of Saint Luke/ where it is said/ that elders were ordained thorowghout every congregation. Whereunto albeit the Ans. could say nothing/ yet in pressing the word city/ he showeth his good william. Unto this it may be added/ that the scripture useth oftentimes for shortness sake/ by a city to comprehend as well towns/ and villages/ as the great cities. For where Saint Matthew hath city/ or town/ S. Luke hath city only: and in 
Mat. 10. 11. Luk 10. 8.  diverse places off the tenth of Saint Matth. 9 and 10. of Luke/ the precepts given off the apostles behaviour in the cities/ are necessarily understanded off other places. Likewise that both M. Beza/ and Erasmus reformed herein the old translator/ changing his translation of city by city (as that which attained not fully to the meaning of the Apostle) into a more general speech/ off town by town. This shall yet better appear/ in the 3. cha. 8. Tract. where it shallbe showed/ how the institution of God is/ that a Bishop should be not off a diocese (such as ours) or province/ but off a particular church. Which treatise I would have drawn hither/ as unto the proper place/ but that these places are so entangled with the question off the Dominion of the Bishop/ that I could not without too great trouble off the reader/ sever it. Where he saith that Saint Paul commanding to appoint Ministers to certain places, did not thereby forbidden Titus to make Ministers having no certain place: he should understand/ that S. Paul knew he had to do with one/ which had learned well that lesson of the law of God/ Thou shalt only do that which I command the. And it is shameful injury done to Titus/ once to think that he made kinds of ministries/ whereof he had no commission by the Apostle. The rest is nothing/ but a manifest begging off that which is in question.  
Where I alleged the council of Chalcedon/ that none should be ordained loosely/ but unto some special congregation: the D. being at a bay/ and having no place to escape/ cometh upon me with open mouth/ and will bear the reader in hand/ that I have falsified the Council, and why? forsooth because I have left out these words, Or in the place off Martyr's burial, or in monastery. I left them out in deed/ because we have no use of 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  them. Howbeit what syllable is there here/ which helpeth him/ or in all the canon which he hath set down? That the council men● not, that a man must off necessity be ordained to a certain place, but that he should have some stay off living: is directly contrary to the councils words/ which expresseth the first plainly/ and off the later speaketh nor a word. The reasons used have not so much as any sense/ and are drawn first from the filthy puddle off Popish divinity/ that there be ecclesiastical ministries without cure/ and places not needing any pastoral charge: whereas if those monasteries etc. were lawful assemblies/ every ecclesiastical ministry was as necessary for them/ as for other. Afterwards they are drawn from a shameless corruption of the counsels words/ by sworn enemies of all good order in the church: which to overthrow a plain meaning/ have interpreted without having some title, without having some possession, or living.  
And that I have set down the true meaning off this council/ may easily appear by an other: which forbade this wandering from city to city. For Theodoret reprehending Eusebius 
Theod. 1. 19  bishop of Nicomedia/ for leaving his own church to be bishop in an other: allegeth a canon whereby it was ordained/ that none either bishop, or elder should go from city to city. Whereby appeareth/ they had all certain places. Yea the D. Denis shall give testimony unto us in this behalf/ whose words be: we have appointed to every elder his proper parish, and church 
1. Tom. conc. Epis. ad Sever.  yard, and ordain that every one keep his own right, so that none enter into the bounds of an other parish: but every one content himself with his own, and so govern the church committed unto him, that he may give account, etc. But that this shameful: facing off the D. may be manifest/ I will set down calvin's judgement of this canon/ whereby shall better appear who hath used most faith herein/ he or 1 Speaking against the Popish making off ministers/ he saith: But it was ordained in 
Inst. 4. li. ca 5. se. 4.  the council of Chalcedon, that there should be no absolute ordaining off ministers, that is to say, unless there were a place assigned, where the ordained might exercise his charge. Here is the same sense/ and exposition of the council which I have followed/ as full in every point. now let us hear out of what school the D. exposition cometh. He addeth a little after: But our Romish masters, which think nothing to be cared for but the belly, first interpret a title, a sufficient revenue whereby he may be able to live, whether left off his friends, or by some benefice. Therefore ordaining a priest, or Deacon if he able to live, they give him the degree: not regarding where he should exercise his ministry. But who will ever admit, that the little which the council requireth, is a yearly revenue to maintain himself with? And after showing other frauds/ 
Sect. 5.  whereby they have deluded other councils/ which confirmed this/ he addeth is it not always absurd, to ordain an elder, to whom there is no place appointed? whereby appeareth not only Calu. judgement of this question: but how impudent a corruption of the council/ he esteemeth this/ which the D. so greatly alloweth.  
The council of Urban ought to make the D. blush: and the corruptions which he to so small purpose/ chargeth his book with/ cause it to speak so loud/ that the very deaf ears ought to hear. For this divinity of the later popery which he maintaineth/ being condemned off the former: hath thereby a brand of corruption/ whereby it may be known. considering that popery give still from evil to worse/ and that it was not able to put this order off the church to flight: until it approaching unto her full age/ had gotten greater strength of wickedness. What Jerome hath of this matter/ I have showed. In the next Division beside this question/ whether it be convenient for a minister to take wages, which can live off his own/ which I will not enter into/ there is nothing but bore repetition/ and open petition of that in controversy. The next chap. of Ceremonies in ordaining, is answered before.   

That functions of apostles/ Evangelists/ and Prophets are not ordinary.  
Chap 3. pag 229.  
TO th'end it may be better understanded/ that the D. hath here in maintenance of his anabaptistical dream/ so confusedly turned upon heaps: I will first maintain the arguments which I have set down: after answer unto his reasons taken out of the scripture: thirdly show how impudently he hath abused the authority/ both of elder/ and later writers/ to cover this frenzy. Which shallbe done so much the shorter/ as he is unworthy any answer at all. First to nip at the distinction off ordinary/ and extraordinary functions/ received off all which have but a sparkle of judgement/ he saith/ that the gift off foretelling things to come, was for the time wherein it was, ordinary. Which beside that it is senseless/ it being ordinary in this part/ which is done by a settled order/ and rule appointed of God unto his church: it is also from the purpose/ considering/ that the question is not off an ordinary function/ in the beginning off the Gospel: but of the gospel simply/ which reacheth to the whole estate of the church/ under the Gospel. Therefore forasmuch as he can not deny/ but such Prophets (if any were) should now be extraordinary: the distinction standeth.  
After to that I set down off the word apostle, extended in the proper signification to all Ministers that are sent, which the knowledge of the Greek word might have led him to/ he opposeth 
Diuis. 2. pa. 230.  Caluin/ which saith/ in the proper signification it only comprehendeth the number off 12. Wherein he declareth himself but a trifler. For unless he be at defiance with his grammar: he shallbe constrained will he nill be/ to confess it to be true which I have set down. That which Master Caluin saith/ is not contrary: considering that where I spoke off the general use off the word/ he spoke of the use of it in the new Testament/ where it is most usually taken in that sense. As for that he saith/ it is the proper signification: he meaneth not the natural as I meant/ and expressed: but the particular/ in which sense proper is also taken/ which appeareth in that he calleth the other general. 
Upon Philip. 2. pag. 231.   
Where I assigned a proper note off an apostle, to be called immediately of God: he setteth himself to confute it/ when a little before he had stately confessed/ that it is a thing proper unto the apostles, to be called off God immediately. His first exception is of Mathias, 
pag. 229.  which he saith was not so chosen: which is utterly untrue: where he saith also that I confess the same: that is an open untruth. For 
pag. 132.  I showed that the election out of those two/ was permitted unto lot that thereby the Lord might from heaven/ declare whom he would have to be an apostle. So that the church chose no Apostle/ but only chose two of the which one was taken by the Lord/ to be an Apostle. His other exception is off Barnabas, which being an Apostle (as he saith) appeareth by the 11. of the Acts, not to have been called immediately: where there is not a word which confirmeth that/ and therefore he durst not note the place/ whereof he gathered it. Where he saith it can not be proved by the scripture, that he was so called: he beggeth the thing in controversy/ not able to answer the reasons alleged. For where he saith/ that S. Paul doth not say that he saw Christ to prove that he was an apostle, but to prove that he was not inferior to other apostles: he is manifestly confuted both by the words going before/ and following after. For having propounded this for his question/ am I not an apostle, 
1. Cor. 9 12.  and not as he saith/ am I inferior to any apostle: he addeth for a reason/ have I not seen Christ. And in the next words that follow/ if I be not an apostle unto others, yet I am to you, he declareth that the estate of the question is there/ whether he were an apostle/ or no. To that I alleged off the protestants/ proving that the Pope can not be Peter's successor, because there is no succession into the office of an apostle: he aswereth not.  
To that I alleged off Epaphroditus called an apostle, not in respect of the ministry of the word, but as sent with relief 
Diuis. 3. pa 231.  unto Saint Paul: he patcheth out an answer almost of as many colours/ as he allegeth authorities. out off the Centuries/ that he was an apostle in that sense that Paul, and the rest off the apostles were. Which beside that it is false (they only affirming that he was an apostle) is clean contrary to that he allegeth out of Caluin/ that it is taken there generally, for any sent to preach: and therefore it can not be taken in that signification of apostles/ in which the 12 and Paul it is contrary also to that out of Ambrose/ which saying that he was therefore called an apostle, because he was sent off Paul: confirmeth in part that which I have set down/ that he was called an Apostle/ not in respect off any dignity of ministry/ above others Ministers of the word: but only in that he was sent. Finally contrary to that alleged out of Theodoret/ which so calleth him an Apostle: that forthwith also he maketh him to be a Bishop. When as if he be a Bishop/ he can not be such an apostle as the 12. considering that they be two several members of the ministers off the Gospel/ differing by the D. own confession/ at the lest in the place of exercise off their mystery: the bishop having an especial bond to his Bishopric/ and the apostle preaching Where he thinketh need  
Where he saith also that it confirmeth his side, that he is called the apostle of the Philippians, and other the apostles off the churches, for that thereby it may appear, that one may be apostle of a kingdom, or off a province: he dallieth with his reader. For in that place I alleged out off the 2. Corinth's 8. the apostles off the churches are not so called/ in respect off any ministry of the word/ but off the alms which they were sent with. And beside that the church of the Philip. was neither province nor kingdom/ but a particular church: Epaphroditus is not called their apostle/ in that he was sent off Saint Paul unto them: but in that the Philip. sent him to Saint Paul: as the words which follow immediately after/ observed off Master Beza do declare. So that if that place prove 
2. Phil. 25.  an apostle: it proveth one sent/ not to a province/ or kingdom/ but unto one singular person only. But who would vouchsafe an answer/ to such scrapings?  
Against that I alleged to prove/ that junias/ and Adronicus were no apostles/ for that a man may be famous amongst 
Diuis. 4. pag. 232.  the apostles/ and yet no apostle: he opposeth Martyr, that seemeth to doubt whether the words will bear that sense: which I leave to the reader's judgement. The other reason that S. Paul calleth them kinsfolk/ and fellow prisoners/ and not fellow labourers/ which his use is when he speaketh of those/ which have any ministry of the gospel: he toucheth not. He hath raked up to no no purpose a number off bore opinions/ which I will not wrestell with: considering that nothing thereby falleth from our cause. For if both Epaphroditus/ and these be apostles/ such as Paul/ and Barnab. I refer myself to that where I have showed/ that that function is ceased. If in the general signification/ for that they are sent to preach: it maketh nothing to the question/ seeing the D. must show that there is an ordinary particular function of apostleship/ severed from the office of a Pastor/ Evangelist/ and Prophet. Where he saith/ he alleged them to prove that some now may preach, which have no certain clear: I could not think himso forsaken off all judgement/ that he would make such a conclusion: howbeit I trust now he hath his answer.  
That I alleged the apostles declaring that they would not have this order continued in the church, in that they renewed not that order of apostles, as they were taken away by death: he answereth/ first that the scripture doth not express it. As if S. Luke which so diligently described the election of Mathias/ would have quit overleaped this/ if there had been any. And considering that they had not such cause to draw them to a new consultation of a new apostle/ as in the 1. Act. which was an express word/ off taking an other into the room of judas: it is manifest that they attempted no such thing after. So that alththough it be not expressed: yet it is contained in scripture/ that there was no consultation of an other apostle. If not/ how is he (as he saith) persuaded/ that there was none chosen into their places? or how knoweth he/ that it was not necessary? will he still have his persuasions in divinity/ without the word? without which they are no persuasions/ but idle fancies. After he asketh who ever said, that there must be twelve apostles, neither more nor less? as though my reason tended to that. But if the apostles did not uphold that small number of twelve/ which the Lord instituted: it proveth that their mind was/ not to choose about that number. And if they would not continued 12. to gather the ●2. tribes of Israel/ scattered thorough the whole world: they meant not that there should be a greater number/ to gather those which were scattered in one Island,  
To that I alleged off Ambrose/ which saith/ that he would not take upon him the estate of an apostle: he answereth/ that 
Diuis. 72 pag. 234.  he said so, to abase himself, because in an other place, he challengeth not the circumspection of a pastor. will he never wake out off this sleep? for to let pass that not to acknowledge the grace of God bestowed on him/ is a fault/ as to challenge that which he hath not received: and not to enter here into his ability/ of doing the office of a Pastor: doth he not see that the cause off not taking upon him the estate of an apostle/ is assigned not in his disablenes/ but in that which the greatest wit/ learning/ and godliness of those times/ could not come unto/ that is to say/ that none could challenge 
Ad Trall. & al.  the office of an apostle, but he whom the son of God himself had chosen? He might aswell say/ that it is a point off great modesty for a man to profess/ that he cannot climb up into heaven/ without a ladder. Neither is this Ambrose judgement only/ but Ignatius: which in those epistles that the D. will have rightly borne/ saith that he will not command them any thing, as an apostle. In deed 
a Euse. 7. lib. 31.  Novatus a runagate/ 
b August: Tom. 6. cattle. heresi.  Manes a Phranticke/ 
c Orthodoxo. in vit. eius.  Martial a coleprophet/ 
d Epist. Bonif. ad Lanfr.  Romish Augustine/ the anabaptists off our time/ and such brambels have entitled themselves by the name off apostles/ and taken upon them to ordain others: but all that have had together with piety/ any spark of judgement/ have beside their heresies condemned also this frenzy. 
e Lib. Epist. 2.  Cyprian reproacheth Novatus/ that he sent forth new apostles. 
f Cont. epist. fundam. & l. 1. de Act. cum Felice,  August. presseth the Manicheans once/ or twice: which said/ they were apostles/ and demandeth what scripture they could show/ to show themselves apostles. Whereby he declareth that he esteemed no other apostles/ then which had particular testimony of the scripture: which thing he never laid to the charge off other orders off the Manichean Ministers. 
g Zuingl. Ecclesias.  Zuinglius also chargeth the anabaptists/ aswell for that they took upon them the office: as also for that they challenged the name/ off apostle.  
But the D. seeing his folly laid open to the derision off young children/ hath in favour off his apostles/ and prophets/ invented a new distinction. For where I alleged certain proper marks of the prophets/ as foretelling things to come/ and apostles/ as immediate calling from God/ seeing off Christ/ embassage into the whole world/ which not falling into any function now in use/ prove that they are ceased: he aswereth/ that 
Pag. 229. 231. 218.  Prophets, and apostles in such respects are ceased, but continued still as touching preaching the gospel. Then which what can be more bluntly spoken? For it as much as if one should say/ that a beast is a man/ although not in respect that it hath a natural capacity of reason/ and speech: yet in that it liveth/ and hath sense as a man. For as a man/ and a beast being both living things/ are severed one from an other by their properties/ and special differences (as they be called off the Logicians): even so Apost. prophets/ Evangelists/ Pastor's/ Doctor's/ being all preachers of the Gospel/ are severed by that wherein they differ/ one from an other. And as he can be no man which hath none of those differences/ whereby a man is severed from other living things: so he can not be Prophet/ or apostle/ which hath nothing whereby he may differ/ from a Pastor/ Doctor/ or Evangelist. It is also too childish/ that he understandeth not how the difference of a thing (which is the substantial form) being taken away/ the thing itself can not remain.  
Therefore if the D. will have apostles/ prophets/ and Evangelists remain: he must show how both every one of those/ now differ from themselves/ and from the functions of Pastor/ and Doctor. In which behalf he hath been hacking/ but his tools will not enter. For this new apostles office, is placed in preaching the word where need requireth: the Prophets in an especial gift of 
129.  interpreting the scriptures: the Evangelists office being set between three opinions/ as it were three stools/ either off preaching more fervently than other, or off preaching the gospel, or off preaching simply, falleth flat to the ground. For how dare he take upon him to set up Evangelists/ when as appeareth here/ and especially pa. 407. he knoweth not what their office is, and wherein it consisteth? Which might have served him for a piece of instruction/ that that function is ceased. For even as the jews if they were not altogether blinded/ might understand that the Lord hath taken away the difference off clean/ and unclean beasts/ in that (by their own confession) they can not come to the knowledge of meats forbidden: even so if (as he saith) the Lord hath not left any exact knowledge in the scriptures of this office/ beside other reasons/ he declared by this also/ that his meaning was/ that it should have no continuance. Considering that there is no office of continuance/ whereof all the parts/ have not a full sight/ and manifest show in the scriptures.  
But let the Answ. reap that he never sue/ and not able to prove any/ let him enjoy either all/ or that signification of Evangelists/ which serveth his turn best. First it can not be denied/ but all these three agreed in preaching off the gospel. Likewise that which the D. assigneth in the description off apostles/ that they preach where need requireth, agreeth unto his Evangelists/ and prophets/ both by the practice of their offices in the scripture: and by the D. own confession/ especially in Evangelists/ whose ministry he appointeth in going from place to place. This difference then remaineth/ that Evangelists do preach with greater zeal than other, the Prophets with greater dexterity of interpreting. Wherein first he is a small friend of the apostles. Whom contrary to their 
Ephes. 4. 11. Cor. 1. 12. 28.  institution/ he hath thrust down under the degree of Prophets/ and Evangelists/ which having certain gifts of Zeal/ and dexterity of interpreting above them: must needs have the upper hand. Secondly he hath given a check to the Prophets/ whom the scripture preferring before/ he placeth behind the Evangelist. 
Ephes. 4. 11.  For the gift of Zeal in preaching the word simply/ being more excellent then to have a special dexterity/ and readiness in interpreting (th'one proceeding off greater knowledge/ tother off greater love): the office whereunto it is knit/ must needs be higher. Thirdly let him show/ how these Evangelists/ prophets/ and apostles/ may be changed into Pastors. For if their gifts of interpretation/ and Zeal/ be greater than fall into a Pastor: than it is neither lawful for the Bishop to admit/ nor for them to accept the office of a pastor/ after they have once exercised these offices: which is directly contrary to the practice off our churches. Fourthly if there be such offices/ why are they not ordained every one to their several function: apostles to their apostleship/ prophets to their Prophetship/ Evangelists to their Evangelist ship? that they may know to what kind of ministery to apply themselves/ and poursue after that gift/ which is most agreeable with their office. Fiftly/ considering that it is comen to them all to preach whereneed requireth/ how cometh it to pass/ that some being restrained unto a Diocese/ other have for their circuit/ a whole province/ other a whole realm/ other two realms of England/ and Ireland? or if this diversity of limitation/ make diversity of function: let him tell us/ which off these we shall take for apostles/ which for prophets/ which for Evangelists. But there would be no end/ if I should poursue all the absurdities/ which hung upon this assertion. I come therefore unto that spoken a part off the Evangelists.  
He saith that he hath showed by scripture, reason, and authority, 
Diuis. 5. pa. 233.  that though the name off an Evangelist be changed, yet the office remaineth: which is most untrue. For neither hath it any authority at all/ and it is both against reason/ and scripture/ that the office by his saying remaining fully/ and in all points: the name should be 
Diuis. 2. pa. 217.  changed. I say by his saying fully/ and in all points/ forasmuch as that touching writing off the gospel (wherein only he maketh our Evangelists/ to differ from those in the apostles time) shallbe showed not to appertain unto the office of an Evangelist/ such as Saint Paul speaketh off. Where I said it is against reason/ that the name should be taken away: both I said it for that there is a profitable admonition in it/ to keep them in remembrance of their duty: and for that it containeth a mark of Honour/ above certain other ministers. Which being a part off reward/ ought not to be cut of from them/ which do faithfully bestow themselves in that office. it is against scripture manifestly: which by this means is set to school/ whilst the name which it gave being cast aside/ a other as more fit/ is received. Whereunto add/ that it is against comen experience. For it cometh often to pass/ that the duties commanded falling away/ the names annexed unto them remain: but that they remaining/ the names (especially which carry a note of honour/ that men so willingly lay hold of) wear out/ is very seldom/ or never heard off. So that here I have to thank the D. which putteth me in remembrance of a very probable reason/ against all his new found aswell prophets/ and apostles/ as Evangelists. Which is/ that for so much as the names were worn out many ages ago/ the offices themselves had also an end: and forasmuch as no ordinary minister now/ ought to be called by these titles/ or being called to receive them: there fore the offices whereof these be the names/ are ceased. Otherwise these titles both aught to be given/ and may be received/ as well as those of bishop/ or Pastor/ and Doct.  
Where I allege that Timothe, and Philip Evangelists, had their vocation confirmed by miracle: touching Philip he maketh an outcry/ for that he was entered into his ministery of evangelistship, before the miracle 8. Act. 29. As if the same came not to pass 
Num. 17. 8.  in Aron/ which had his calling confirmed by miracle/ long after he had done the office of the high priest. Likewise he answereth/ that it was rather done for the eunuchs sake, then for Philip's. Albeit it were so/ yet by that (rather) is not shut forth/ that it was done for Philip's. If he had learned that David/ and other servants of 
1. Sam. 27 1. Psal. 116 11.  God/ come oftentimes either through small success in their ministry/ or manifold contradictions of the wicked/ or sense off their own weakness/ into doubt off their calling: he would not have found it so strange/ that the servants of God in their own respect/ have had these confirmations. Where he saith/ these particular examples make no general rule: I showed the likelihood/ whereupon I thought the rest to have the same/ forsomuch as these two which the scripture only calleth Evangelists/ had that confirmation. Which I leave to the judgement of the reader.  
Where he saith/ the place 1. Tim. 1. 18. proveth not that Timo. had his calling confirmed by miracle, first because Prophecy is no miracle, then because he being ordained by putting on of hands, needed no confirmaton by miracle: the first is nothing but dalliance in the word/ my meaning being apparent/ which is/ that he was by an extraordinary calling/ and in our Ministers unwonted. Albeit if to have things hid/ and which no knowledge of man is able to come unto foretold/ be miraculous: it can not be denied/ but that a Prophecy may in a general sense/ be called a miracle. The other exception is frivolous: considering that both Paul/ and Barnabas which were miraculously called of the holy ghost/ by the voice off the prophets/ unto acerten ministery/ had notwithstanding for a further confirmation/ the laying on of hands 
Act. 13. 3.  of the Ministry of Antioch. And it is also ungoddly/ as that which directly cotrarieth Saint Paul which drawing arguments for the confirmation of Timothe/ as well off that Propheceie/ as of the imposition of hands: esteemed them both needful. That which he addeth/ that there is 
1 Tim. 4. 14. 2. Timo. 1. 6.  no mention off any evangelistship in that place of Timothe: is unworthy any answer.  
another answer is/ that Timoth. was Bishop. in proof whereof like an evil shoemaker as one said/ which putteth a great shoe on a little foot/ he hath spent a whole sheet of papir. When 
Diuis. 59 pa. 404. Agesilaus in Plutar.  if he had gained this point/ it would serve him to small advantage: which notwithstanding how far he is from/ shall plainly be seen. Therefore to give the onset of this great heap/ his first reason that Timothe was bishop, because the epistles written unto him contain the office of a bishop: proveth as well that he was a Deacon/ a widow/ a man/ a woman/ old/ young/ and consequently a monster: seeing he wrote off all their duties. Yea rather that he was a Deacon. Considering that there is nothing in the description of a Deacon/ which agreeth not unto him: but in the description of a bishop/ that which he requireth off not being given to wine, and not being a young Christian, could have no place in Timothy's instruction: nourished in the truth from his 
2. Tim. 3. 15.  cradle/ and so sparing in the use of wine/ that S. Paul was feign to call him to a more liberal uso of it. let him show therefore but one only precept directed unto Timothe in both those epistles 
1. Timo. 5 23.  which is proper unto a bishop: nay let him show one procept (that only excepted which I alleged/ off doing the work of an Evangelist) which ought not as well to have been observed off the apostle himself/ if he had taught where Timothe did. If he be able to show no one such point/ which maketh him to differ from other ministers of the word: then all may see how vain a reason this is/ which he hath made the growndsell of this cause.  
His second reason drawn (as he calleth it) of the subscription of the second Epistle/ is as vain. For who is there unless be which hath his nose stuffed/ with self-willed prejudice against the truth/ that can not easily smell that subscription/ not to be in the canon of the holy scripture? for considering that he had in the beginning off the Epistle/ made the direction unto Timothet what needed he in the subscription/ repeat the same again? Likewise that he was first, and that he was ordained, or chosen by voice: savoureth not S. Paul Considering that if there were any such thing/ both Timot. and the Ephesi. knew it well: and there was more cause to writ that in the former Epistel/ then in this whereby he calleth him from thence: also in the superscription/ then in the subscription. seeing it is contrary to all use of letters/ to set either the name/ or titles of him to whom we writ/ in the subscription/ or underwriting of our letters. This riot/ and disorder hardly happen unto a man off mean judgement/ and shall we think that they were committed off Saint Paul/ or rather of God by him? last off all/ that the subscription hath was written, and not written, and when Paul appeared, not when I/ or when I Paul appeared: doth manifestly argue/ that it was none of his/ considering that there is no such subscription in all his Epistles/ where he speaketh off himself/ in the third person. And seeing in those things wherein he used the hand off an other/ which copied out his letters/ he never useth that manner of speech: that he would use it in the subscription/ which can not be otherwise esteemed then of his own hand/ it is altogether incredible▪  
Where for confirmation of this he saith/ that it is so in the most, best, and ancientest greek copies: himself setdowne his answer/ which he is not able once to remove. For if those subscriptions be untrue/ as appeareth/ especially in that of the first epistle to the Cor. which have testimony of the most/ best/ and ancientest writers/ as well as this: how cometh it to pass/ that there being the self same authority in both/ it should be off such strength in 
Beza. upon the 1. Cor.  in this subscription/ which is off no value in the other? nay when that subscription to the Cor. hath the testimony of all greek copies/ and this off his is forsaken not only off the Syriake paraphrase / but off diverse the ancientest greek copies: how is he not ashamed to lay such weight of this cause/ in that testimony? 
Upon 1. Timot.  it is true therefore that M. Beza saith/ that these subscriptions were not S. Paul's/ but some others/ for the most part either unlearned/ or not so well advised.  
His third reason is drawn off authority of writere. wherein not to examine how truly he hath alleged these places/ as a thing unworthy the turning off a leaf/ nor to speak off his fond allegation off divers authorities/ especially chrysostom/ and Theodoreis'/ which make no manner mention off any bishopely state of Timothe/ off Zuinglius twice cited which making th'office of a bishop/ and Evangelist one/ serveth not to prove/ either that he was more a bishop then an Evangelist/ or that the same may have divers functions at once: I say not to examine these/ they are all (if I would use his own weapon) overthrown 
pag. 325.  in a word/ that histories are not curious, in calling men by their several titles. If that be true in histories/ which off all other seek after even from the cradle to the grave/ things of les importance/ then the office which a man hath borne/ either in church/ or comen wealth: much more is it in other writers. But that writers especially when they speak by the way/ and not off set purpose/ speak thus/ and call men by unpropertitles: shallbe once answered against all the rakinges/ both here/ and pag. 230. when I come to the D. arguments whereby he proveth prophets/ Evangelists/ Apostles/ etc. In the mean season I will not stick to confess/ that divers of these writers/ histories especially (peradventure deceived by that subscription) esteemed him a bishop/ and no evangelist. But what then? if they were for one a 100 they can not countervail/ much less bear down/ the testimony of the Apostle. 
●. Timot. 4. 5.   
Howbeit not all the ancient writers/ are (as he untruly saith) of that judgement. For not to speak of Ambrose/ which calleth Timot. a Deacon/ where he opposeth a Deacon to a bishop: 
In Epist. ad Phil. Ad Trall.  Ignatius an ancient writer saith/ that he was a Deacon/ and that where he dividing the ministries of the church into bishops/ and Deacons/ etc. doth openly oppose a Deacon to a bishop. Where all his testimonies are not able to afford one sentence/ wherein Timothè is so called a Bishop/ that he is opposed/ unto an Evangelist. Therefore although these places prove him nor an Evangelist: yet they have more to prove that he was no bishop/ that all those to prove him a bishop/ which are raked here together. Albeit Ignatius missing the proper name/ assigneth him the true office of an Evangelist: which was to be assistant to Saint Paul in his apostleship. Where he saith/ that all the new writers are off that mind that he was a bishop, Master Beza only excepted: I trust the Doctor's faith in alleging authorities/ is too well known/ to abuse the simplest any more/ with these visards. I only had Calu. and Muscul. at hand/ the reader may look others if he 
Cal insti. 4. 3. 4. Tit. de minis. ca de off.  think good: both which plainly say he was an Evangelist/ where they handle properly the several ministries of the church/ and make a manifest difference between a bishop/ and an Evangelist. And such is his dealing/ that he feareth not to bring even from thence a piece of proof/ where Calu. moving the question/ whether the word Evangelist verified off Timoth. be taken in a general sense/ for any that preacheth the word/ or for that proper office 
2. Tim. 4.  which S. Paul expresseth to the Ephes. upon two reasons concludeth/ that he speaketh off that office of an Evangelist. Yet upon that he saith/ Timothe was excellenter than common Pastors: this trim interpreter concludeth directly against Caluin/ that he had the proper office of a Bishop, and that Caluin meant that he had a notable gift above the rest off the Pastors. As though Caluin reasoned not off the degree of offices/ one above an other: but of the degree of gifts in one/ and the same. It is too great shame to strive with such light of words. Considering that he doth there make Timothes office, a middle degree between Pastors, and apostles: higher than Pastors/ lower than Apostles.  
This man also which reproacheth me as one setting the fathers together by the ears, without cause where the disagreement is manifest/ 
102. Pag. 114.  and which saith simply/ that it is great injury to learned men, to accuse them off contrariety with themselves: goeth about to prove Beza directly contrary unto himself. For where Beza showeth 
Upon 1. Tim. 1.  that Saint Paul did not leave Tim. at Ephesus, as their bishop, which the D. in affirming that Beza is against him confesseth, he busieth himself/ to prove him to have contrary sentences. For proof hereof he allegeth/ that all were bishops which S. Paul sent for from Ephesus to Miletum: and therefore Timothe being one of those which by Bezaes' judgement was sent for, must needs be a Bishop. Albeit it he granted which Beza saith/ that Tim. was sent for: yet that they were all bishops wanted proof. For all know that it is not unwonted/ to call a whole company gathered off divers degrees/ by the title off that whereof there are must in the company/ without speaking to every one by their particular titles: especially seeing he speaketh indefinitely/ that the holy ghost, had appointed them, and not all them Bishops. Where Saint Luke saith that both the princes of the people/ Elders/ and Scribes/ and those of the race off the high priests were assembled: Peter in speaking unto 
Act. 4. 5. & 6.  them maketh mention only off the Princes/ and Elders/ without naming the scribes/ and priests/ which notwithstanding he spoke unto with the rest.  
But I can hardly grant that Timothe was then sent for/ to come with the rest off the Ministers unto Miletum. considering that there was as appeareth so small a space/ at the lest between 
Act. 20. 4  the time which Beza supposeth Timoth. to have been sent to Ephesus from S. Paul/ and this sending for the bishops unto Miletum: that Timo. taking the straight course unto Ephesus/ was little more than only arrived/ when Saint Paul sent from Miletum. Secondly for that S. Paul writeth unto Timothe/ that he left Trophimus/ one off his companions in that journey/ 
2. Tim. 4. 20. Act 20. 4  sick at Miletum: which had been needles if Timothe had been with Paul/ as the bishops of Ephesus were/ until he parted from Miletum. Thirdly/ for that S. Paul in that oration unto the bishops/ saith that he knew that none of them should see his 
Act. 20. 25. 38.  face any more: which he would never have said of Tim. His other reason that he calleth him precedent, a general word agreeing to any in pre-eminence/ is nothing worth. That which he joineth to back it with/ as added by Beza out of Cypri. that the Bishop ruled the college of Seniors: the place is in his confessions/ and not where he assigneth. howbeit it maketh nothing to the purpose. For unless the Bishops were presidents in the Eldership in Cyprians time/ when that office was the highest in the church: yet it followeth not therefore/ that the bishops were always the first in the apostles times/ when there were higher functions. Unless the D. will say that the bishops took the upper hand off the apostles/ and prophets/ when they came unto their churches/ and joined themselves unto their consultations.  
And albeit it hath appeared/ and shall appear that the Answ. hath not won so much as a poor cottage: yet as though he had taken great Babylon/ or Ninive/ he maketh his Triumphs: which if he had had any hold off himself/ at lest he might have differred/ until he had answered the reasons to the contrary. For if (as he most untruly saith) he had all the writers calling Timothe bishop: yet if the scripture stand for us/ it is reason that he with all his writers/ should vail their bonnet. Now therefore although he say/ I forget my promise, of proving Timothe an Evangelist: yet the reason I alleged/ that the scripture so calleth 
pag. 232.  him, will prove better memory in this point/ then he can well afford. To this reason he answereth/ first that the scripture doth not call him so, but only biddeth him do the work of an evang. which in deed is more against him. For they are sometimes called by a title/ 
233.  which not doing the work belonging thereunto/ can not be properly so called: but they which do the work which the title pretendeth/ may always properly be called by it. And the usuallest arguments in scripture/ to prove or improve a man to be such/ as he beareth countenance off/ be fetched from this place off effects.  
His second answer standeth off the interpetation of these words/ the work of an Evangelist. Which being alleged out off Bulling. Muscul. Heming. to be preaching the gospel purely, and constantly is nothing to the purpose. For we grant it is true/ but that there is further understanded/ which may severe him from other ministers off the word. Whereof Caluin assigneth 
Upon 2. Tim. 4. 5.  these reasons: one that by ascribing unto him this degree above that off Pastor's/ he might procure him more authority: the other that he might thereby give the spur to stir up/ and enforce himself to all careful travail/ off answering so high a calling. of both which reasons he assigneth a manifest cause/ which is that the apostle throughout his whole epistle/ driveth unto those two ends: This is yet clearer/ for that where other titles of Apost. Prophe. etc. be carried off the scripture from their particular/ unto a general signification: this word of Evangelist (set a part this place in controversy) is not used but to note that proper office/ opposed unto other ministries of the word. And therefore 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 1. Tim. 2. 7. 2 Tim 1. 11. pag. 232. li. 3. 37.  the apostle having occasion to speak off this word preacher/ shunneth (as seemeth) the word Evangelist/ and useth an other: when as notwithstanding the word Evangelist was proper to holy writ/ and tother comen to profane: of which reason also I left a step/ in the place before recited. Again Eusebius (howsoever otherwise he forgetteth himself) where he speaketh off that proper office/ noteth it out by the same manner of speech which the apostle: saying/ they did the work of Evangelists. 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Act. 17. 18. 19 1. Cor. 16. 1. Thes. 3. Act 20. Phillip 1. 21. Colos. 1. Philem. Eph 4. 11 1. Cor. 12. 28. ●0.  Last of all it appeareth by that the scripture setteth forth of him/ both before he was at Ephesus/ and after/ touchching his ministery in many places where the apostles had taught before: that the work of Evangelist/ is taken in that particular signification/ whereby it is severed from other Ministers: considering that the Evangelists office was/ to water where the Apostles had planted/ and to be assistant unto them.  
His third answer is a mash/ and brewing of all together/ drink fit for horse/ then men. For to be sure to make Timothe a bishop/ he thinketh that one at one time/ may be Apostle/ Evangelist/ Doctor/ bishop/ and I can not tell what: which is directly against the word off God. As when it saith that God gave some apostles, some Prophets: again he set first Apostles, secondly Prophets, etc. Again are all apostles, are all Prophets, etc. Whereby appeareth/ that the holy ghost placeth these divers gifts in several persons/ and that they are one under an other: so that unless one/ and the same man may at one time/ be second and third/ inferior and superior/ before and after himself: it can not be that one at one time/ can be Apostle/ Evangelist/ etc. hitherto pertaineth (which is touched in the former book) that the apostle bringeth off the likeness of constitution of our bodies/ with 
Rom. 12. 4. 5. 1. Cor. 1●, 12.  the church, that as the natural body/ so the spiritual of the church/ is best preserved/ and maintained in most comeliness/ when every member doth his proper office: and of the contrary side/ ●● th'one so tother is hurt/ and disfigured/ when one breaketh upon an other. Whereupon it is evident/ how untrue it is which the D. doth in so great assurance set down: that one may be Evangelist/ and Bishop at one time.  
Besides that/ he is confuted by his own words. For if the office of an Evangelist/ be to preach more fervently then others: (which signification those three which he hath set down only (as that which putteth a difference between it and others) can stand) them he can be no bishop: considering that every office hath his proper gift/ according to the measure whereof it is executed. And it is as absurd/ that a bishop should preach more fervently/ and beyond the measure of a bishop: as it is that a man may leap beyond himself/ overrun himself. it is said that one in his full age/ differeth from him self in his childhood: and a man at one time/ may after a sort pass himself at an other: but that he should differ from himself/ at one and the same time/ as the D. judgement implieth/ this is the first tidings I have heard of it. Again it is holden off all that I have read (Zuinglius only excepted/ which maketh a bishop/ and an Evangelist all one) that both an Evangelist is not/ and a bishop is/ bond to a certain place. And this difference is thus far confessed off the D. that the Pastor is more bound to one special church/ then the Evangelist. which if it be true/ a man being (as he saith) at one time both bishop/ and Evangelist/ may be also at one time bound/ and not bound unto one place/ have a special charge off one/ and indifferent of all: which will be hard for him to bring to pass/ without he work miracles.  
For his reasons whereupon this opinion standeth/ that Saint Paul is called a Doctor, S. Matthew, and john being apostles, are off writers 
1. Tim. 2.  called Evangelists: they are far from proving this. Touching the first/ Saint Paul is not called a Doctor simply/ but with addition Doctor of the Gentiles: declaring that his Mynistry pertained not to one kingdom/ but unto all/ which is all one with an apostle. touching tother/ he should understand that our question is not of an Evangelist as writers/ but as Saint 
Eph. 4. 11  Paul taketh Evangelist: which can be by no means understanded of him/ which writeth the story of the gospel. considering that Philip which is confessed to have been an Evangelist/ in that sense was none. if he say that the Apostle ment/ to set forth two kinds of Evangelists/ one preaching only/ an other preaching/ and writing too: I answer/ that Saint Paul pourposing there to set forth the liberality of the Lord/ in giving preaching ministries unto the church/ was neither so negligent a commender of the grace of God/ nor so dry/ and poor of speech: but if there had been an other several ministery (as this answer supposeth) he both would/ and could have used an other word/ as a several dish to have presented this gift with. And seeing the D. bringeth in S. Paul/ offering one only gift of the bishopric/ unto the church/ in two words as it were two dishes: 
Pag. 219.  what likelihood is there/ that he would thrust up so narrowly these two gifts/ whereof each of them being more excellent than the bishopric/ asketh greater room?  
Moreover by the same reason that men may call Saint Matthew/ and Saint john Evangelists/ because they wrote the stories of the gospel: they may call S. Paul/ and Peter/ etc. For as they wrote the story/ so these wrote the sum of the whole doctrine of the gospel. They being therefore both writers of the gospel/ in this rule of esteeming Evangelists by writing/ must needs be a like Evangelists. For the greek word favoureth the one as well as the other: it being as joyful news/ which S. Peter/ and Paul wrote/ as that which S. Matthew/ and john. For the difference of story and sum, bring not a grain weight to pull the name of Evangelists more to these/ then to those. Now therefore forsomuch as it is manifest by the subscription of S. Paul's epistles/ that he writing did the office of an Apostle: it is also clear/ that both S. Matthew/ and john being apostles/ in writing the story of the Gospel did the same: and that the committing off the Gospel to writing/ was not the proper difference of any special office/ but according to th'occasions offered/ and moving of the holy spirit of God/ comen to other functions of that time. And as the Pastors of our time which both preach/ and writ/ differ not in ministery from those which preach only/ and are oftentimes more excellent pastors/ then they, so the w●sting of Saint john/ and Matthew being apostles/ off Saint Luke/ and Marck Evangelists/ might peradventure make them more excellent apostles/ or Evangelists/ then those which wrote not: but to change their ministery/ it could not. Last of all/ off this answer followeth thabsurdity before noted/ that one man at the same time/ should be first/ and second/ before and behind himself.  
That an Evangelist at one time/ may be a bishop at an other, maketh little for the D. considering that we show/ that Timothe 
2. Tim. 4. 5.  was even then at Ephesus an Evangelist/ when he supposeth him to have been bishop. Howbeit it is unlike that they which were ordained Evangelists/ and set in higher degree above the Pastor/ were without their fault/ thrust down unto the order of Bishops. Men now a days peradventure may choose to an office of charge/ one whom upon better trial as not altogether sufficient/ they may 'cause to rise out of his chair/ and sit in a lower place: but in the apostles ordination/ especially of Timo. in whom they were directed by the voice of God/ it could by no means 
1. Tim. 1. 18.  come to pass. This being untrue/ in the Evangelists cast down to th'office of bishops: is yet more untolerable in the apostles. For they are by this means not let/ but cast headlong down/ from the highest staier in the ministery/ unto the lowest almost: yea by the D. saying (which maketh the Pastor/ and the Doctor all one) even unto the lowest. But it can not be/ that they which were appointed by the voice of Christ immediately to the apostleship/ can either of their own/ or any other authority in earth/ be put from that ministery. And therefore our men do substantially dispute against the Papists/ which would have Peter bishop of Rome: for that being ordained an apostle/ he could not betake him unto th'office of a bishop. which the Answ. with divers other grounds/ would to maintain his fantasies gladly shake.  
The reason pretended out of Zuing. for that they abode in one place: if it be his/ is unsufficient. For to omit that it is easy to show/ that james immediately after he was ordained to the apostleship at thascension of our Saviour/ exercised his charge in one place/ namely jerusalem/ during his whole life/ whereby should follow that he was never any apostle: and to let pass that Eusebius citeth out of Clement/ that all the apostles remained 
5. li. 18. c.  by the space off xii. years in jerusalem/ after our Saviour Christ's ascension/ whereby they all should be bishops during that time: to say nothing also of Saint Paul/ which teaching at Rome/ and there looking to end his life/ even from thence writeth 
28. act. 30 Eph. 1. 1. 2. Tim. 1. 1  himself an Apostle/ and not a bishop: I say to let all this pass/ which notwithstanding casteth down this opinion/ the Ans. must know that thabiding long in one place/ doth not make a bishop differ from an apostle: but the necessity/ and bond to abide in one place/ by reason of his particular function. Which when it neither can be showed off any apostle/ and is as hath been showed/ directly contrary to his function: it can not be/ that the abode in one place/ should prove a change off the apostleship/ into the function of a bishop.  
Whereby is also answered the last reason off the D. that Tim. was bishop, because he returning to Ephesus died there. For if that were granted/ what reason is there/ that whereas by the biscours of the scriptures before alleged/ it appeareth Timothe taught in divers churches: he should be said bishop of Ephesus/ because that was the last church he instructed? why not off the first/ or second as well as off the last? it is all one as if a man being a stranger in divers places/ should be said to be Cytisen of that/ were he layeth his bones. Wherein the D. again approacheth unto the absurdity of the Papists: which against that the Protestants allege/ that Peter is said off writers/ as well bishop of Alexandria/ and Antioch/ as of Rome/ answer that the difference is great/ because he died at Rome. Neither helpeth it him any thing which he allegeth in an other place out of Cal. that Tychicus was sent to supply Timothy's absence. For beside that the Apostle doth 
pag. 336.  not go so far/ and whatsoever can be said in that point is conjectural: Calu. words do not necessarily enforce a deputy/ considering that absence may after a sort be supplied/ by a successor.  
And if beside the first ordination of Timoth. unto the function of an Evangelist/ which is unlimited/ we will consider the manner of his embassage towards the Ephes. there can nothing less be gathered then this/ that Timothe was off Saint Paul instituted bishop of Ephesus/ whereby he should need a 
1. Tim. 1. ● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  deputy. For in that he sent him/ desiring him to tarry for him there: he declareth that he was not sent to remain always/ but for a time. But if the Answ. take exception that I have found out this new translation/ to make the place serve for my turn: first I trust that those which have still in the greek/ will easily grant that the word will bear this sense: than it hath some confirmation of that/ which Saint Paul writeth off diligence to be used in his caling there/ until his coming. Which word until although 
1. Tim. 4. 13. Sustineres me. 2. l. cont. epist. Par.  not always: yet for the most part/ maketh an end of that/ whereunto it is applied. Last of all/ it appeareth by Augustin which useth this translation/ that it was off ancient time received: which testimony of antiquity cast in/ when the skoles are even on both sides/ may carry it away. Thus I leave it to the judgement of the indifferent reader/ what truth it hath that the Answ. affirmeth/ of Timothes being bishop at Ephesus. I return back to the general treatise of the Evangelist.  
Where I show that if there were Evangelists, yet the bishops could not ordain them; being their inferiors: he answereth 
Diuis. 6. pa. 233. Eph. 4. 1●  that it can not be proved, that an Evangelist is of higher degree, than a bishop. If O. Paul's authority be not sufficient/ which setting the ministries of the word so precisely in order/ preferreth the Evangelist/ and Prophet unto the Pastor/ or bishop: nor the judgement of writers (whereof although some make an Evangelist next in honour unto an Apostle/ some the Prophet: yet both sorts prefer 
Euseb. 3: 27. Calu. up. the Eph. Beza. pa. 226.  the Evangelist/ and Prophet unto the Pastor/ or bishop) if I say none of these be sufficient: yet the D. himself will help us/ which in appointing the gifts of Prophets/ and Evangelists greater than those of the bishop proveth that he here denieth. And although he take this liberty off denying things/ which none durst ever call into doubt: yet he escapeth not so/ considering that although he make the bishop to take the wall of the Evangelist: yet he can not do it in the apostles/ and Prophets. Therefore the absurdity remaineth still/ that the bishop being an inferior minister/ taketh upon him to make ministers/ which are above him. He saith that the 7. of the Heb. maketh not for me, because blessing is not there taken for consecration to the ministry. yet the reason is all one. For as the apostle proveth that Melchizedech was greater than Abraham/ because he was the minister of God/ to pronounce the bessing upon him in the name/ and authority of the Lord: so he that ordaineth being a public Minister of God/ to pronounce his assistance to wards him that is to be admitted/ ought by the same reason/ to be greater than he.  
Where I alleged out of Euseb. that the Evangelists did 
li. 3. c. 37.  ordain bishops, having nothing to answer he was content to take the benefit off the printers/ or writer's fault: which as easily might come to pass/ for the figure off 3. had set the figure off 2. where I show that these Evangelists are superfluous, if the pastors, and Doctors do their duty: he asketh what though there be 
pag. 34.  not for every church, a sufficient Pastor. Which being answered in an other place/ I answer also here/ that his Evangelists should help to make up the number. Where he saith if every church were provided off an able Pastor, yet for confirmation of the doctrine, oftener preaching, divers working of God by one rather than an other, the Evangelists might do good: beside that he easily forgetteth the churches charge/ which being hardly able to maintain their proper ministry/ should be overcharged with those that ride about: and beside that the Pastor being provided unto every church/ the overplus ought to serve to furnish them off Doctors/ an other ordinary ministry of the word: he must know that able teacher's/ can teach as often as the church can conveniently meet. And it can not be denied/ but they have the blessing of God promised to their labours/ before any other. If there be any such great/ and urgent need of confirmation of any point of doctrine/ the church's hard by may by duty off godly neighbourhood/ help one an other in that behalf.  
The place to prove the ceasing off this Ministry out of 
Euseb. lib. 5. ca 9  Eus. is manifest to all that will understand. For in that speaking of the time about the year 162. he saith there were yet Evangelists, he declareth that there were none in his time: and that he saith 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  with repetition/ there were there were, all see that he wrote that with declaration of sorrow/ that they having been before/ were not then. That which he answereth/ that they can not now go from kingdom to kingdom, because the miraculous gift of tongues is ceased: maketh utterly against him. For Euseb. putting that amongst other annexed to the office of an Evangelist: left the reason off the want off that ministery/ which he had before bewailed. Which being the same now/ that was then: it followeth that as there was not then/ so there is not now/ any such function. Thus much for the maintenance of the reasons/ which were set down by me against the D. apostles/ prophets/ etc. it followeth to examine his.  
First the reader may see the hardness of the D. countenance/ which having divers reasons alleged out of the scripture/ asketh notwithstanding for one word out of it/ which doth but insinuate these 
Pag. 229.  offices to be temporal. After he allegeth Ephes. 4. where upon that it is said/ that those with other ministries of the word/ were given of God for the gathering together of the saints/ until we all come unto a perfect man: he concludeth but unjustly/ that they are perpetual ministries. For the offices of apostleship/ etc. may well have their work in the perfection of the church/ without such continuance. Which he might have easily known/ if he had considered that which our Saviour Christ saith/ that the fruit off their preaching should remain. Therefore although 
15. john. 16.  their ministry were but for a time: yet for as much as the fruit thereof hath/ and shall have her work unto the worlds end/ in the perfection of the church of God: it might be well said/ that they were given for the gathering off the saints/ until they came to a be perfect man. Neither do the words of the Apostle/ import continuance of all these offices. For if all these amongst them/ and every one in his turn/ finish this work: it is enough/ nothing falleth from the liberality of the Lord/ nothing from the truth of this word. no more than he breaketh promis/ which undertaking to furnish an other of all manner of worckmen until his house be finished/ after foundations laid/ and patron left unto carpenters/ and masons/ how to proceed in the rest off the building: with draweth the master builder. for as the lord abated the number of sorts of builders: so hath he diminished the variety off works/ requisite to the building. And as the offices of Pastor/ and Doctor which were not in the beginning off this building/ are said to be given to perfecting of it/ even so these functions of Apost. etc. although they be not in the end/ may likewise be said. But I marvel that the Answ. doth not understand/ that both this place of the Ephes. and that off the Corinth's ●. 12. speak of such apostles/ prophets/ and Evangelists/ as were noted with such marks off immediate calling/ extraordinary gifts/ etc. as fall not into the apostles/ prophets/ etc. which he dreameth off. If therefore he think that the Lord hath bound himself by those words/ to continued these degrees: it followeth that he is bound to furnish them/ with gifts proper to them. For if promising such as S. Paul here meaneth he give other kinds/ much inferior unto them: he thereby (which all godly ears detest) is argued off untruth.  
His other reason is/ that Prophets in the 1. Corint. 14. and prophecy 
p. 229. 230  12. Rom. are put as ordinary. Whereunto I answer/ that the word Prophecy/ is taken sometimes not for that particular function Saint Paul speaketh off/ but generally for any public instruction of the people/ in the will off God. As when it is said extinguish not the spirit, despise not prophecy. That it is so taken 
1. Thes. 5. 19  to the Rom. it is manifest/ for that it is divided/ and altogether consumed into the ministries of the word. So that there being no ordinary minister off the word in the church/ which it embraceth not: it must follow that it is taken there/ for no particular 
1. Tim. 3. Phili. 1. 1.  function. Which thing may better appear/ for that in other places where S. Paul divideth the whole ministry of the church/ the ministry of the word/ which he uttered here by the word of Prophecy/ he there attributeth not unto Prophets/ but unto Bishops. And when as the prophecy which the D. phansieth/ is a simple Ministry of the church: that Prophecy mentioned there being compounded/ must needs be divers. Likewise that a Prophet to the Corin. is taken generally/ for any which instructeth with any word of exhortation/ it is apparent both by that S. Paul attributeth prophesying/ to all which have 
1. Cor. 14. 1. 2. 3 4. 5. 6. 23. 24 3●▪ 39,  any gift off teaching: and in that he doth so often oppose it/ to the fruitless speaking in a strange tongue/ amongst the assembly of the faithful.  
His testimonies out off writers remain/ wherein amongst the ancient/ he hath only a sergeant sentence of Ambrose/ as I have before declared: which as it is full of confusion/ and disorder: so it maketh nothing for the D. for if apostles be bishops/ and Evangelists/ and Evangelists be Deacons/ etc. what maketh that to prove/ that there are beside the bishops/ and Deacons/ several functions of apostles/ and Evangelists/ which is the question. But how this fable is beaten down by all 
Tertul de Cor. mil. Athan. in diversis Epist. Euseb ●. lib. 30. ca jeron. ad evag. Igna. ad Tral. Magnes. etc. Insti, li. 4. c. 3. s. 4. Upon Ephes. 4.  ancient antiquity/ that may be a sufficient argument/ that the ancient writers in great consent/ speak off the whole ministry of the church/ as divided into these three orders/ Bishop's/ Elders/ and Deacons. After that other ministries entered/ as doorkepers'/ subdeacons/ etc. yet there were none but such lightheaded spirits as I have before spoken off/ that durst peint out any their mynysteries/ with the names of apostles/ Evangelists/ and Prophets.  
For the new writers (that the D. if his forehead be not of iron/ may learn to blush) I will touch their judgement only/ which he hath alleged for himself. Master Caluin dividing the ministry of the word into apostles/ prophets/ Evangelists/ Pastor's/ and Doctors: affirmeth that the two last only, that is to say Pastors/ and Doctors are ordinary. Bucer likewise dividing them into perpetual, and for a time, affirmeth that these pertain unto th'estate off the former church/ and correcteth the D. Ambrose for applying them to his times/ by the true Ambrose's sentence to the contrary/ in the first of his Offic. Peter Martyr using the same division/ showeth that the function of Apost. 
Upon 1. Cor. 12.  and Prophets/ are not in use: and that the ministry of Prophets/ is not only expired in respect of telling things to come/ but also for the manner of interpreting the scripture. That he speaketh not the same off the Evangelist/ was for that the Apostle maketh no mention of him in that place. Musculus divideth the ministries 
Loci. come. de minist. of  of the word, into those which served for the beginning off the gospel, as Apost. evang. Proph.: and those which continue for ever, as Pastors, Doctors, Elders, Bishops. Bullinger saith the office of Apostleship/ Prophetship/ and evangelistship 
Dec. 5. ser. 3.  / were instituted off the Lord for a time: and that these many ages/ even since the foundation of the kingdom of Christ, both apostles, Evangelists, and Prophets are ceased, into whose place are come bishops, Pastors, Doctors, and Elders. Last of all the confession of the churches/ having spoken off all ministries of the word/ mentioned off the apostle: concludeth/ that off all those now it is lawful to esteem mynistries of the church/ Bishop's/ Elders/ Pastor's/ and Doctors. These authors affirming that these mynistries be extraordinary/ that they were for a time/ that other are come into their places: the reader may see how the D. dealeth with him.  
Let it now be noted/ how he hath haled these sentences taken from them. Out of Master Caluin he allegeth/ that God hath stirred up apostles, or Evangelists since the time of the primitive church, and hath done so at this tyme. Within a line after he addeth/ yet I 
Instit lib. 4 ca 3. se 4  call that extraordinary, because in churches well dressed, it hath no place. Of the like sort it is that he allegeth out of my book: whereas upon Master Caluin/ so of my words/ which affirm that God hath raised up sometimes Evangelists immediately by his spirit, without any calling off men: he would conclude/ that the office is ordinary/ and perpetual: than which boldness what can be greater? Out of Bucer he allegeth/ that there be now evangelists. Where if his manner of speech/ that there are found Evangelists, could not/ yet that which he addeth/ that God doth it by marvelous means: aught to have kept him from that allegation/ except he think that a miraculous calling/ be perpetual/ and ordinary. Out of the Confess. is brought/ that these offices of Apostles, etc. are mynistries of the new Testament: else should they have great injury/ seeing they were both in time/ and dignity first. but who (the D. set a part) would ever conclude thereof/ that they are perpetual ministries? especially considering it addeth immediately in plain words/ that the Apostles are ceased, and Pastors come into their places: which could not be/ if it had any such meaning as the D. phansieth. Where it saith/ that there are yet Prophets: if that were not which I alleged out of it/ towhing the shutting out of those three ministries/ from them which are now in use: yet the manner off speaking there are yet found, the same with that of Bucer before alleged/ declareth that they meant thereby an extraordinary calling. For so we use to speak of things rare/ and not in comen use.  
Last of all/ where it is alleged out of Bullinger/ that the words mentioned to the Ephe. are confounded: it doth not make for him/ but is answer both against the most places brought to prove Timothe a bishop/ and against those which he hath cited/ in the 3. and 4. Division off this chap. for if those ministries being separate one from an other/ their names notwithstanding be confounded: it must follow/ that not every one which is called an Apostle/ or bishop/ etc. hath that function which is by some propriety severed from other/ and which the Apostle meant to the Eph. for where one man being an Apostle/ is sometimes called a Prophet/ Bishop/ Doctor/ Elder/ and Deacon: if he will say that because he is called by these titles/ he did therefore all those functions proper unto those mynistries: beside thabsurdities before showed/ the untruth doth manifestly appear/ in the office off disposing off the church's money/ Whereof the Apostles discharging 
6. Act. 3. 4. 2. Cor. 11. 23.  themselves/ ceased not therefore sometime to be called by the same name off Deacons. And to use those authorities which he hath brought/ jerom calleth I say the Prophet/ both Evangelist/ and apostle. Yet I think the D. doth not esteem jerom to have had so little judgement/ as to think that he was either of them/ in that signification they are taken of Saint Paul likewise 
Proaem. sup. Esa. Pag. 405. Lively 1. inst. ca 9 se. 1. up. 20. Act. 2. office alia est enim, etc. cum veritas ipsa limatur, etc. Ephes 4. 11.  where he hath cited out of Caluin/ that Timothe was a Pastor: when Caluin calleth him also an excellent Doctor, and maketh that a several function from the Pastor/ it is clear that he spoke not off the special function of a Pastor. The same may be said of Beza/ which calleth S. Paul a Bishop. with divers other/ wherein writers speaking off one in passing/ and not of purpose: content themselves with those general titles/ which notwithstanding when they inquired into the natures of them (as we do here) spoke otherwise/ which use is also noted off Cicero.  
And to shut up this matter/ it is to be understanded/ that there be divers significations of these words Apostles/ prophets/ Doctor's/ etc. for in general signification they agreed unto all ministers off the word. Considering that all are sent/ all feed/ teach/ and by a trope are said to prophecy. Their other signification which S. Paul setteth forth/ is particular/ and agreeth only to only to one several ministry. Observe then how the D. hath trifled/ when as a part off our question being/ whether there be now apostles/ prophets/ and Evangelists in particular signification/ and as they differ aswell one from an other/ as from Pastors/ and Doctors: he hath brought certain places/ where these names be taken generally/ and as every of them may be verified off all mynistries of the word. as if upon that the Mayor of the city/ is called sometimes the officer/ sometimes the Magistrate/ he should conclude that he hath three several offices. And where (an other part off our question being/ whether these functions are now ordinary/ or extraordinary/ perpetual or for some ruinous time) he hath taken upon him to prove them ordinary/ and perpetual: he hath alleged testimonies/ which confessing that some of these ministries have been found in our days/ ad partly in express words/ partly in words/ and circumstances of like value/ that they were extraordinary/ that they are but for a time: than which what can be greater mockery of his reader? And so I trust it appeareth/ aswell upon the arguments 
Ephes. 4. 11.  I have used/ as upon the shame off the D. answers: that off all the ministries of the word/ reckoned of S Paul/ there remain only Doctor/ and Pastor: and that the function of Apostles/ prophets/ and Evangelists/ have no place in the church/ unless the lord immediately stir them up/ without the ordinary calling by men.   

of the necessary residence of the Pastor 4. Tractat. 5. according to the D.  
Cap. 1. Diuis. 1. pag. 235.  
THe D. to deliver the Non residents/ from the crime he is charged with/ flieth from the judgement of the word of God/ unto his own conscience: so that if he/ and his conscience although astonished/ or blindled/ can agreed off some easier way than is debated/ all mouths are shut up to speak against him. And pa. 238. he saith that preaching, and private exhortations, must be according to the conscience, and discretion of the Pastor: which is too shameful a saying. In stead whereof if he had put a good conscience (which will admit no persuasion but out off the word of God): he had openly begged that in question. The lord knew too well the unreformed corners/ and false doors of the best conscicences/ to commit his church which he loved so dearly unto their 
1. Cor. 4. 3. 4.  courteousie. When Saint Paul confesseth that he was not as touching his ministry justified/ albeit his conscience cast him not in the teeth/ of any thing he had done: he declareth that the conscience is no sufficient rule/ to direct the minister in his charge▪ Yet his was more Chryst allike/ then is to be hoped after of any now. and when he saith/ that all the works off a good minister/ are 
2. Tim. 3▪ 16.  taught out off the scripture inspired of God: he encloseth the Pastor within straighter bounds/ then the Answ. which leaveth him in the large field/ or wilderness rather sometime of his conscience/ sometime of the people's pleasure. That which he bringeth off the examples of the apostles/ and Evangelists/ is absurd: considering that both the callings are divers: and even in the very point whereof the question is touching the place/ it is confessed of him/ that the Pastor hath one certain appointed him to exercise his charge/ which the other have not. of this sort 
Diuis. 12. pag. 244.  is that he allegeth after of sonas the Prophet: whose ministry was altogether extraordinary towards the Ninevites. Which if it prove any thing: it proveth that the pastor/ after he hath once laid open the sins off his flock/ and denounced the judgement against them/ may go his ways without either deputy/ or return. Likewise that off S. Paul Act 20. free from the Ephes. blood, because he had declared them the whole counsel of God. Which is first impertinent: considering that the pastors teaching at his 
Diuis. 13: Pa 244.  charge/ is not to be compared with the apostles teaching at one church/ but at all the churches of his apostleship. Then it is apparently against him: considering that the Apostle which cleareth himself of their blood/ doth notwithstanding all the knowledge they had/ charge the pastors with watch/ and ward over them/ as those which should answer for them. So that unless S. Paul's diligence had been poursued in feeding them/ which were already so well fed/ not the people only/ but the pastors also/ should have perished.  
And even the extraordinary callings/ are so far from strenghthening these startinge a side from appointed charges: that they help to bind them more straightly to them▪ for they had not only a general calling to execute their function: but withal special direction unto the persons/ and places unto which the Lord would have their ministry to appertain. for when those of Nazareth thought much/ that our Sau. Christ healed in other cities 
Luk. 4. 23. etc.  of Galilee/ and not in theirs/ where he was brought up: he allegeth the calling of God/ which sent him to do miracles in other places/ rather than there: and showeth the cause why Elias rather relieved the extreme famine/ and Elizeus cured the leprosy of strangers/ then of their own country: for that they were sent unto them. Also desired to tarry in a place/ he said it was not 
Luk. 4. 43  at his liberty to tarry/ but that he must preach to other cities. alleging this reason/ that he was sent off his father so to do. Considering therefore that they had not only general callings to do their duties/ but also where/ and to whom: much more in the callings which are ordinary/ and certain it ought to be observed/ that men have not only callings to preach/ but direction unto the place/ and parties to whom they should preach. Which because it is not now/ without calling of the church: it followeth there can be none such. That he addeth/ if he have care of them, is altogether from the cause: considering that the pastors care/ is but one part of his duty: and may be taken off one never present. Likewise that of his sufficient deputy (beside that it cometh after to be spoken of) if the absence he phansieth be unlawful: the deputy for it is idly mentioned.  
I alleged that the Evangelists, and Apostles tarried more in one place then in an other. Which may be easily understanded/ not only in that S Paul/ preached somewhere years/ other where months/ in some places weeks/ in other not all but in that by certain vocation S. Peter/ etc. were more bound to 
Gal. 2.  the places where the jews/ then where the Gentiles were: and Saint Paul/ and Barnabas had in their general charge/ a more straight bond to preach unto the Gentiles/ then to the jews. And albeit the Evangelists he imagineth/ are let so loose that they may preach through the realm: yet even in that scope he leaveth them/ they have a nearer knot/ and further duty of preaching in places of their nativity/ abode of friends/ and kinsfolk. Therefore if the residence of a Pastor/ be no more than the D. plainly setteth down/ that he aught to do it especially in that place, and more in that then 
pag. 242.  in others: the difference between a Pastor/ and them/ touching the bond to a place/ granted also of the Answ. is clean taken away. Burhe will not answer the former reason/ because it cometh out of place. Where forsomuch as preaching in other places/ is alleged to be one of the chief causes of non residence: all men see that this arrow was shot at the heart of his cause. And if it had no place here: why did not he carry it to the proper place? how cometh it to pass/ that he answereth it not else where? But how vain this excuse is/ it appeareth: seeing even in this division/ to prove that the Pastors may preach in other places/ then in their charges/ which is that he refuseth to speak off/ as impertinent: he allegeth the example of the apostles/ and Evangelists/ and so continueth almost a whole side off repetitions.  
Likewise to that alleged/ that Timothe, and Tite, came not from Ephesus and Crete of their own heads, but called off the Apostle a cheiff governor of the church, which can be no warrant to those which leave their charges without any such calling: he answereth not. That which is said off the D. that SAINT: Paul sent for Timothe for his own private business: is untrue/ neither hath any ground of the word. And if he think that those words help him/ that Timothe should bring Marck as one profitable to serve him: they rather confute him. for it is absurd to imagine/ 
2. Tim. 4. 11.  that S. Paul would take two such notable lights from the service off the church/ to serve his private business/ and to do that which m●ght be done by others/ which had no public charge in the church: especially considering that he had Luke with him before. Therefore that service must be expounded/ of the service off the gospel/ whereunto he would employ them.  
Whereas I alleged for residence/ against those which leaving their proper charges wander in other places/ that they 
Divis. 2. Pag. 237.  should not attempt any thing in the ministery, without calling: the Ans. saith/ a man is not so called to one place, that he is restrained from doing good in other: which is not the question. For it is not denied but he may do good by prayer/ counsel/ and writing After be saith/ that he constantly believeth that in the more places he laboureth, the more his service is accepted unto God: and p. 241. that he is a member, and minister off the whole church generally: and pag. 224. wheresoever the preacher may do most good, thither he is called of God. Wherein beside the miracle off making Apostles/ he bringeth in other wonders which the Lord himself never wrought: which is/ to change a Pastor into an Apostle. And beside that it is directly against the 
Act. 20. 17. Philip. 1. 1 Socrat. li. 5. ca 8. pag. 224.  order off the scripture/ which calleth them bishops of such/ and such a particular church/ and not of the whole church: against the Canons of the old Counsels/ which forbade the bishops to go beyond their own bounds/ and assigneth that cause of appointing Patriarchs: it is against that himself hath set down/ where putting difference between pastors/ bishop's/ and other preachers/ he saith/ that Pastors, and bishops have their cures limited Whereupon followeth that if they go to other places/ they both pass their limits/ and destroy the difference assigned off the Answ. between them/ and other licensed preachers.  
Yea if he be minister off the whole church/ he hath a necessary calling to preach in as many places/ as he can possibly: as he which otherwise shallbe guilty of their blood/ over whom having a mynistry/ he hath done no duty. But forasmuch as the Pastor hath his calling unto one certain place only/ it must needs be that he going to other churches of his own head/ goeth without calling. Unless he will here/ fly unto secret persuasions of the spirit of God/ without the voice off the church: which is mere anabaptistical. And where he saith/ that God calleth him to that place where he may do most good: first he doth presumptuously/ that taketh upon him to determine where he may do most good/ and that which controlment of the church's judgement/ which placing him in a certain church/ thereby giveth her sentence/ that he might do most good there.  
Then I answer/ that although he could know where he might do most good: yet that is no sufficient calling of God. For the lord calleth sometime his ministers unto places/ where they gain lest/ and sendeth none to those where after preaching would follow repentance/ as appeareth by that our Saviour Christ speaketh off Corazim/ and Bethsaida/ compared with tire/ and Sydon 
Math. 11. 20. Ezec. 3. 6. / off Capernaum compared with Sodom: and by that the Lord saith to Ezechiel/ off the jews compared with the Gentiles. And our Sau. Christ which knew where he might do most good/ and best fill his hand off the lords corn/ following the calling of God his father/ even in the land of jury where his charge was/ preached more in certain stoncharted towns/ then in those which were better affectioned to his doctrine. Which may appear both by jerusalem/ and the examples before recited/ and especially in Capernaum. In which for that he preached so often/ and wrought so many miracles/ it is in an other place called his own city. Now if our Sau. Christ preached no where but by the calling of God his father/ and yet few in places more 
9 Math. 1  abundantly/ where he knew he should have a thinner harvest: it followeth that it is both untrue which the Answ. saith/ that God calleth a man to preach/ where he may do most good: and true/ that the lawful voice of the church (being the same to the ministers now/ which the holy spirit of God was in those extraordinary callings) ought to go before every one in his mynistry/ not only for direction of him to preach/ but also for the place where. Whereupon followeth/ that he which being placed in one church/ leapeth into an other/ without an other calling off the church/ runneth or ever he be sent. So that although the Pastor had never so hearty a desire to profit, in his wandering from place to place: yet having no calling/ there is no obedience: and therefore if in casting his net into an other man's fishing/ he should enclose never so great a multitude: yet with out pardon/ he shall one day hear/ that to obey is better than sacrifice▪ and to hearken better than the fat of rams▪ Where he addeth that God 
1. Sam. 15. 22.  inclineth not so to one church, that he would have the other neglected: I grant/ and further that every one aught to take care off all the churches/ but according to the bounds of that calling/ wherein he is set of God. And beside that I have showed/ that the love of God towards men is no certain rule/ to direct the minister in his function/ but his calling: the Answ. by this reason/ must take shipping over to Rome/ and Constantinople/ and to whatsoever place he shall understand to have need off his help.  
You do as you say dally, not with mine/ but with the holy 
Diuis. 3. pag. 237.  Ghosts metaphors of pastor/ and watchman. And first where you would so assign the resemblance between these/ and a Pastor of the church in other things/ that you would not have 
pag. 220.  it come to the diligence/ and continuance in feeding: you are manifestly confuted by the words off the scripture. for in the person of Peter/ it requiring off all ministers off the word/ that they should feed, feed, feed, according to the charge committed unto 
john. 21. 15. etc.  them: showeth that the similitude reacheth to the diligent continuance. Which may better appear/ in that as the government of the Pastor towards his church/ is set out in the picture off a shepherd: so is the spiritual government of our Saviour Christ/ shadowed forth in the same similitude. and life as our spiritual 
Psal. 23. john 10.  feeding is off Christ: so the principal means which he useth to feed us by/ is the Pastor. Whereupon it followeth/ that if it be needful for us at all times/ to have our spiritual feeding of Christ: it is needful also to have always/ that hand which the Lord especially hath appointed to give it by. Likewise noting a good minister by watch day and night/ without cease/ it is clear that 
Esa. ●2 6.  the resemblance reacheth unto the continuance upon their charge. Whereunto pertaineth/ that the scripture compareth the spiritual watch over the churches/ with the watch which shepherds kept in those countries/ which for the multitude of wolves/ and other hurtful beasts/ watched day and night. For thereby 
Luk 28. Gen. 31. 40.  is implied a greater attendance/ then if the comparison had been drawn off the fashion off our countries. Which although it be expressly set down in my 49. pag. yet the Ans. will not understand ●t: but saith he knoweth not wherefore the 2. of S. Luke should be quoted.  
To conclude it is to be observed/ that albeit he grateth the cares off his reader/ by so often repetition of these syly differences: yet he will not once acknowledge the strength of the argument: which is not as he imagineth off like, but of the less to the more. For if there ought to be such diligence/ and continuance of watch for things off so small value: how much greater ought it to be for those/ which are bowght with the precious blood of the son of God. If for those which have sometimes truce with their enemy: much more for those which have restless war. If against the hazard off this life only: much more against the danger off everlasting death. Therefore to let the untruth of some differences which he raketh up/ unworthy off confutation/ rest in the judgement of the reader: if they were all true/ the argument remaineth still unanswered. For albeit the absence/ and substitution which the D. imagineth/ be allowed in the worldly watch: yet it followeth not that the same is to be allowed off/ in the spiritual.  
Neither helpeth it which he allegeth/ and that in an other 
pa. 221. & 244.  place/ out off chrysostom: that the sheep are here reasonable, which are there unreasonable. Wherein first cometh to be observed/ how all is fish with the Answ. that cometh to net. To brive the church from the election of her minister/ he alleged out of chrysostom/ that the people is nothing but a tumultuous stir, compacted of folly. Here where he would make more elbowroume for the Pastor/ they are reasonable sheep/ such as can feed themselves/ such as can 
pag. 215.  provide for themselves. Thus he is content for advantage/ both himself to play on both hands: and to draw his Doctor to the same. But if this reason be oftentimes in the reasonable sheep 
pag. 221.  more enemy than friend unto the spiritual feeding; if the setld: sheep have naturally more appetite to desire/ taste to discern/ and 
Rom. 8. 7 Math. 16. 17.  means to enjoy their convenient feeding/ then these reasonable have for theirs: then this sentence of chrysostom helpeth not. And it may peradventure seem to smell off the smoke of free will/ and off the natural power of man: whereof he is often too loud a preacher.  
Likewise that which he bringeth/ off the difference of the temporal meat soon digested, and off the spiritual which continueth for ever, 
221. 556. 244.  so often repeated: and of that no man can take the sheep of God out of his hand, is ashamefull abuse off the holy scripture. For to let pa● how many ways this feeding is through the malice off the devil/ 
Math. 13. 4. etc.  and corruption of men's natures/ either clean taken away/ or turned to the hurt off the hearers: likewise not to stand in that the Pastor knoweth not what time the Lord calleth effectually/ and giveth that meat that never consumeth/ to those which are under his charge/ which aught to keep him in a continual exercise off his function/ and waiting for that hour when the Lord will touch their hearts: I say not to stand upon these/ the D. should have known/ that as the Lord declareth/ that none can take them out of his hand: so he hath disposed off the means/ whereby he will hold them/ which is the ministry of his word. And as he showeth the virtue of the word/ in the hearts of those which are effectually called/ to be perpetual: so he ordaineth y● should have that perpetuity/ by that means off preaching/ whereby it first took root: In watering that which is planted/ feeding 
●. Cor. 3. 7.  first with milk/ then with whole meat/ them which are once conceived by the immortal seed of the word preached/ until such time as they come to their perfect growght/ and stature of the 
●. Pet. 1. 23 & 2. 2. Ephes. 4. ●5.  full age of Christ. Ad hereunto/ that these places applied unto the use the D. putteth them/ serve to prove that preaching off the word/ is needles amongst those which have believed/ and aswell that the pastor may be away without any deputy/ as with one. For if the residence of the Pastor may be less/ because the sheep of God can not fall from their calling/ and because the spiritual food which they have once tasted of/ endureth to life: the same coming to pass without any further instruction/ it followeth by the D. reason/ that they may be without all ministry of the word. And if this may diminish the continual residence of the Pastor/ it may aswell abate the diligence of the hearers: so that after they feel themselves to have believed/ they need not seek so carefully/ the food of the word off God. But as sentence given by God that S. Paul should appear at Rome/ and not perish 
Act. 23. 11 Act. 27. 23 etc. & 27. 31.  with his company in the sea/ it being unpossible that he should perish/ or any of his company/ he truly said/ that they could not be saved/ unless the mariners did abide in the the ship: even so it impossible to take God's sheep out of his hand/ is truly said notwithstanding / that it is impossible for them to be saved/ without continuance off feeding by the word off God. For as that was the ordinary means/ to deliver from ship wrack: so this from spiritual destruction.  
In the next division that which he answereth of a Pastor acepted of God, though he be not so wise as Solomon, etc. is from the purpose. 
pa. 23●.  if he would have answered/ he should have said/ that a man having both his hands full/ and more than he can overcome/ off the charge committed unto him: may voluntarily/ and of his own head/ reach out his hand for more. The mildness of Christ hindereth not his justice/ not only against the unfaithful servant/ which hideth his talon in a napkin: but against the foolish/ which having enough to do at home/ maketh himself worck abroad. The cavil of baptism is utterly unworthy of answer: considering that I expound myself in the next words. The example off celebrating baptism but once or twice in the year, is fond/ and without judgement alleged: seeing that it was very inconvenient/ and not to be followed. Preaching at the discretion of the Pastor, is confuted: that other may minister sacraments, then ministers off the word, is a begging off that in controversy/ and after disputed.  
To that that I propounded of the necessary/ and continual abode/ to the end that the preaching through knowledge off th'estate 
pag. 139.  off the people/ might have the better effect: he answereth/ that the Apostles although they did not long continued in a place, yet prevailed much. as if the Pastors now had the discretion of spirits/ which the apostles/ or were armed as they/ with power off working miracles/ and distribution of gifts/ whereby their preaching was made so fruitful: or as if there were not more particular knowledge required in a Pastor toward his flock/ then in an Apostle towards his charge. Considering that an Apostle might execute his apostleship/ towards those whom he never saw/ or was present with: which I think he will not say off a 
2. Colos. ● pag. 241.  Pastor. Where he saith/ it is not so hard a matter to know the people's conditions: all wise men see the contrary: yea the experience of men deceived in the natures of their friends/ wives/ and children/ best known unto them/ might have taught him otherwise. And if he were so righthanded in this matter/ as he pretendeth: yet considering the estate of his people changeth/ in the whole/ or in the particulars: it is meet for the knowledge of their estate/ he should wait upon the alterations.  
He saith also/ that admonition being given them in due time, and order, their blood shallbe upon their own pates: and in other place/ that if the the city be sufficiently admonished, leaving some behind him, the watchman hath done his duty, and may go to another place. Wherein first (as his wont 
pag. 244.  is) he taketh that for granted/ which is the question. For it is in question what is sufficient admonition/ and what is to admonish in time/ and order: whether as long as he continueth Pastor of that church/ which we maintain: or until he shall esteem his church lightened with the knowledge of the truth/ which the D. supposeth. Then the similitude of the watcheman/ confuteth his imaginary sufficiency. For as where the war is durable/ there it is not enough for the watcheman to have descried the enemies once/ or twice/ unless he do it as often as they come against the city: even so it can be no discharge unto the spiritual watcheman/ to have given warning/ unless he do it during the whole time of the spiritual war: which being continual/ and without truce/ requireth his continual watch. And this being alleged 
pa 244.  of me afterward/ is altogether unanswered.  
Moreover there is herein/ difference between the spiritual/ and bodily watch/ that there it is enough of one danger to have given one waarning: but in the spiritual/ the alarm bell must be rung oftentimes/ for one/ and the same danger/ yea and 
Philip 3. 1. 2. 2. Pet. ●, 12.  that in things well known. Again although in bodily watch/ the watchman after he hath given warning may go to his rest: yet it is not so with the spiritual watchman. For he is bound not only to admonish them of the coming of the enemies/ but to fortify/ and comfort them: they must as the priests in the battles of the Israelites/ blow continually the silver trumpet/ not only that they should every one take himself to his armour: but that in the fight through that passioned/ and stirring music of trumpets/ they might blow up/ and whet the courage of the soldiers. And herein he is greatly abused/ that in this whole disputation/ and precisely here/ he imagineth the duty of the Pastor/ to be only in instructing the sinner/ and giving to understand what he must do: when as the Lord teacheth/ that this watch consisteth aswell in admonishing the righteous/ and those that have lived 
Ezec. 3. 18 19 20.  long in all commendation off good works/ as the sinner which never was lifted up/ out off the mire of his wickedness. Likewise that the Pastor's agreement with the fieldshepherd/ is not only in leading them to the pastures/ and setting meat before 
Ezec. 34. 4. 2. Pet. 1. 12  them/ whereby they may be kept from starving: but in healing the sick/ bringing home the strays/ strengthening the weak: whereunto if we add that of S. Peter/ which teacheth that he ought to strengthen the strong: I would gladly know off the Answ. what time there is/ wherein one off these duties is not in season to be done off the Pastor.  
Further this answer cleaveth not together. For if the Pastor have discharged his duty after his supposed warning, that their blowed shall light upon their own pates: what need he leave a deputy behind him? He dare not answer that the deputy is but off pure grace off the Pastor/ and if he leave him to instruct off necessity: how hath he discharged his duty/ that in necessary substitution of an other in his place/ he still confesseth himself bound unto? And those other duties off comforting the sad/ binding up the broken/ etc. be aswell commanded unto the Pastor/ as the bringing them to the knowledge of the truth: and be also more proper/ considering that his government is properly off those/ which have some entrance into the church. by what rule is it lawful more/ to turn over unto his deputy/ these other offices of ministry: then that which himself esteemeth him bound to/ in his own person? If he may set over his second/ and third instructions/ and admonition's/ etc. why may be not the first? So it may come to pass (which he deniing in words/ doth in deed confirm) that a Pastor 
pag. 243.  may do all by deputy.  
That he allegeth off God directing the preacher in his words, and matter: tendeth to Anabaptism. For aswell may it be alleged to prove/ that the Pastor may preach without study: as without knowledge of the estate of his people/ as a means to direct both his words/ and matter/ to the most profit of his hearers. Where he saith/ a discrete preacher will so temper his matter, as he may profit all, and hurt none. If he had told us how/ and of what droges tha● receipt is made/ which is fit at all times/ in all places: I should better have known what to have answered. In the mean season/ he is clean beside the question: which is not whether a man may profit/ in preaching to the people/ whose estate he knoweth not: but whether he profiteth more/ that knoweth it. He that casteth blindefold/ may hit the mark: but no wise man will lay any thing on his head. The reasons I brought to prove/ that the want off knowing the estate/ may either hinder the fruit/ or give occasion off that danger/ which by knowing it might be avoided: are for the most part untouched.  
Hear his memory serveth him not/ for any place out of the 
Divi. s 6. pa. 240. 1. Reg. 6. 1. Chron. 28. 11. 12. 13. 19 1. Sam. 19 12. 1. Cor. 9 13.  law, which proveth continual residence of the Pastor. I will let pass the houses built round about/ and joining to the temple/ which being done off Solomon (as was the rest off the building) according to the word of God/ might declare how near their charges the lord will have the Ministers of the church. Likewise I will not press the example which is alleged/ off Ely sitting at the door of the Tabernable/ to espy the manners/ and answer the doubts off those which entered. I will content myself with the apostle/ the best expounder of the law: who setting forth the priests function/ by that part of it which consisted in sacrifices: useth a word off great strength/ to bind them to a continual residence/ and signifieth in effect/ a continual sitting at their 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  charge. Now considering that the Pastor's diligence is the same in his church/ that theirs was in their charge: continual presence being required of them/ the same/ or greater rather if greater can be/ is required off the pastor: as he which hath greater trust/ committed unto him.  
That which is spoken off divers beside the Pastor, able to dissolve doubts which arise: not to meddle with the truth thereof/ nor to stay in the great gifts required in one/ that should comfort him that is cast down/ whom the scripture affirmeth to be so care/ that a man shall scarce find one amongst a thousand: I answer 
job. 33. 23  that it helpeth not/ not only because they hanging of their Pastor/ know not to whom to have recourse: but also considering that the dissolving off the doubt/ or comfort according to the necessity of the person/ dependeth not of knowledge only/ but upon the blessing which the Lord giveth. that being therefore greater/ and more abundant/ when it is done by the instrument which the Lord hath sanctified for that purpose: it followeth/ that if there were such supplies as he speaketh of: yet the Pastor's presence is necessary. And therefore it helpeth him not/ which he 
pag. 244.  allegeth afterward out of the Coloss. that they should admonish one an other in psalms, etc. but maketh against him/ considering that if particular persons/ have a duty of admonishing those that are fallen: the Pastor hath much more. And if the lord will not spare the means off the admonition of a private man/ for restoring of him that is fallen: he will much less spare the ministry of the Pastor.  
That which he often repeateth of help by reading off the scriptures, is not to the purpose. For if the help of the Pastor be not requisite/ when the sheep are particularly stricken off the Lord: there is no necessary use of him at all. And where the Lord hath provided resistance against tentation/ not only by reading/ but also and that especially/ by the lively voice off the Minister: what is else to betray the sheep unto the wolf/ if this be not/ to leave them destitute of the most principal means off their defence? beside that/ the place off Tymothe 2. 3. is abused/ whilst he draweth those things to private men/ which the Apostle speaketh off the Minister off the word: whom he calleth the man of God, as the manner of the scripture is to call the Prophets/ in which respect Saint Paul so calleth Timothe in an other place. Neither doth it belong unto private persons 
1. Tim. 6: 11.  to teach/ and to confute false doctrine: which the Apostle showeth to be a part off those good works/ which scripture storeth that man of God with. To the next division he answereth nothing/ but yet filleth up the place/ as is there to be seen. 
Diuis. 8. pag. 241. 1. Tim. 4. 12. Io. 10. 4.   
To that out off the Apostle/ and our Saviour Christ/ off the Pastor's presence, that in going before his flock, he might serve for a patron off good woockes: he answereth that our Saviour Christ/ and Saint Paul serve for examples, to those which never saw them, and with whom they were not continually. Albeit the light off their example shining so clear/ might be seen off those which were far of: yet the same followeth not in the pastors/ whose light is a great deal dimer. Likewise the pastor being notas our S. Christ/ and S. Paul lights of the world/ but off those houses over which they are set: aught to be placed where they may give most light unto them. Considering that it is unmeet/ not only to put the light under a bushel/ where it is altogether unprofitable: but also under the table/ where notwithstanding it may give some comfortable remedy/ against the darkness. Therefore forsomuch as the example that may be both seen/ and heard/ hath more force to conform the followers unto it/ then that which is only heard: the reason remaineth still unanswered. seeing the question is not only/ how he may serve for example/ but how he may do it to their most advantage.  
To that of the restraint of Pastors to their proper flocks, 
1 Pet. 5. 2. Act 20 28.  he answereth/ he wrote not to Pastors only, but to all in general, that have the name off Elders. his reason thereof that Peter saith he was also an elder, is senseless/ and hath no manner of taste. I will not stick to confess/ that S. Peter written in those words to other Elders than the Pastors: yet that he written to them only/ that weretied to particular congregations (which maintaineth the reply) it is manifest by the words alleged out of S. Peter. Wherein if I have brought the right sense/ he ought to have rested: else to have confuted thereasons/ wherewith that translation is warranted/ and the other which he setteth down/ removed; and not thus confusedly to make a mashe of all. And it availeth him not/ to seek corners in the divers interpretation of the place: when as that off the Acts doth in plain/ and confessed speech/ utter the same that is here debated off.  
After he addeth howsoever the place be expounded, yet it maketh not against him. Not if S. Peter/ and Paul cry never so high/ in this language of continual residence: yet the D. is deaf/ and will not hear. If both the Apostles do not only command the Pastors to feed in their proper flocks: not only that they must employ their talentes/ but where: it is manifest that they shut out/ that roving abroad unto other churches/ which is pretended for Non residence. I showed how the argument is good/ taken from the place off the Thessaly. that for so much as S. Paul conceived a great grief/ in being absent a small space from those/ to whom 
1. Thess, 2. 17.  he was not so straightly bound/ as the Pastor to his flock: the Pastor ought much more to be grieved/ to be away from his flock. And consequently thereof must follow/ that if their absence sat so near their hearts/ as it ought: it would hung such plummets of their heals/ as should hinder them from those lightfooted leaps/ which he maintaineth. I added also/ that the Pastor having the same duty unto his proper church, which the Apostles had towards all the churches of their charge: it must follow, that as they were continually in their ministry towards some of those churches: so the Pastor should be continual upon the charge off his church. That he bringeth against this/ that the Apostle did not speak this in any duty of ministry: for that a learned man noteth off that place, how the saints desire to see one an other bodily, is ridiculous: as if his desire to see them/ could not stand with the duty of the his ministry.  
In the two next divis. unto the reasons alleged/ off the 
pag. 242. 243.  Pastors care so much more stirred up, as he seeth the blessing of God upon his labour: and of familiar acquaintance needful in a Pastor towards his flock, to embolden them to come unto him, both which are best procured by continual residence: he answereth nothing. where I alleged/ the singular love by this means wrought between the Pastor, and the flock: he asketh me how I know it/ seeing I had never experience in any? I know it of the causes of love/ whereof the daily conversation/ and delight to be together/ is one of the principal. off natural reason which I cited out of Aristotle/ that teacheth how men have greater care/ over things proper unto them/ then over those that are comen to them with more. And having greater care/ it followweth they have greater love/ from whence the care proceedeth. Likewise I know it by experience in the Apostle S. Paul: which uttereth greater affections of love towards the Corinth. and Philip. and other with whom heremaineed longest/ and suffered most for: then towards the other churches/ where he made not that abode/ nor took so great pains.  
He asketh what Aristotle had to do with non residence? if it had been but Balams ass/ he should have been schoolmaster fit enough for some/ which refuse to be taught by the word off God. But this is one of M. D. oracled/ which he saith ought to be believed? considering that speaking off the natural causes of preservation of things/ for which I alleged him/ he spoke of things pertaining to his profession. That he chargeth me with not reporting Aristot. words truly/ is a wrangling cavil: for I kept the sense off the author/ considering that a thing comen to many/ requireth the care off many. That he saith/ it can not be true that it is neglected off all, which is cared for off all, is to childish: considering the flower of speech so often used off all writers/ both profane/ and holy: as they living are dead/ having nothing possess all things/ he that is every where/ is no where. Neither is care taken in less measure than it ought to be (which I speak off) contrary to neglect, as he supposeth: but a kind of neglect. That he addeth a man ought not so take care off hit private things, as to neglect the comen wealth, is from the purpose: seeing the pastor in his charge over his flock/ serveth not himself/ but the comen profit/ and that off the whole church. forasmuch as it pertaineth to the commodity of the whole body/ that the part which he hath the nourishment off/ be well preserved: beside that I have showed/ how the care for other churches/ may be with a continual residence at his own.  
In the next diui. scouring over again the removing of Apostles/ and evangelists from place to place (which is answered) 
Pag. 243. 〈◊〉  he addeth that the Pastors did the same, which is utterly untrue: that a man may be transferred from one place to an other, which is no part of the question: that those which have given their names to the gospel, are sufficiently armed with faith, although the Pastor be not present, which is absurd/ when the armour of faith/ with the rest off the complete harness off oh Christian/ which he speaketh off in the next divis. is not so put upon/ but that it is daily to be put on/ and that by the preaching off the gospel especially, He saith further that although they be tempted, yet they can not be overcome: which is confuted not only by divers examples of most excellent saints/ Noe/ David/ Peter/ etc. but by whole churches of Galatia/ etc. which have been carried away by false teachers. For if he speak off the final victory/ it is absurd: considering that that dependeth off the election of God/ unknown unto him/ and may be aswell said off the elect which have not yet believed. Likewise that it is a more acceptable work, to gain those which are altogether in ignorance: wherein beside that he taketh upon him to be a planter of churches/ 
Page▪ ●●●.  which before he assigned to be proper to the Apostles: I answer that albeit it be never so good a work in it self/ yet it is not good/ much less the best/ unto him which hath no calling thereunto. And in that he presumeth a calling/ he doth but beg that in controversy/ which is also before refuted. That he allegeth off the lost groat▪ Prodigal son, etc. maketh against him: considering that those places are not off strangers from the church/ but of them which after knowledge of the truth/ fall into some corruption of life/ or doctrine/ as appeareth in the parable of the stray sheep/ 
Lu. 15. 14. etc.  which although it be of the same kind with tother two/ he hath by all likelihood left out/ because it did more plainly show his folly. In this respect also S. james saith/ that a man that gaineth his brother strayed from the truth/ s●ueth a soul. He saith 
5. jam. 19: 20.  his brother/ not his neighbowr. Therefore this most excellent work off converting sinners/ and finding off those which are lost/ being always in the purest churches/ through the ambition/ covetousness/ idleness/ licentiousness/ etc. off one/ or other: it followeth/ that the pastor having exercise of the most excellent work which can be/ in his own church/ ought not by the D. own reason/ cast himself upon others. All in the two next divis. is answered: neither contain they any answer/ proper unto the reasons alleged of me.  
He answereth that the similitude of the eye, and soul in the body, 
Diuis. 14. 15. Pag. 245: 246.  compared with the Pastor in his church, agreeing in some points, can not be applied to the residence: because the Pastor may be absent from his flock without present destruction, which the eye, and soul can not. If this be a sufficient exception/ there be few similitudes in the scripture/ which are able to hold out: and he might aswell say/ that as the eye waxeth worse/ and worse through age/ so the Pastor may w●r every day more fool than other. Howbeit this is clear/ that forsomuch as the Pastor doth the office of an eye/ and of the soul 
Mat. 6. 22  unto his church: his absence from it aught to be such/ as the body of the church may neither see the worse/ nor be less disposed/ and lively unto all good works: which is enough to break the neck/ both off his monthly/ much more quarterly sermons/ and of his reading deputies.  
Hitherto pertaineth which the D. entitleth/ the most effectual 
Theleventh Tract. Pag. 554. etc.  kind of preaching: where he would if he durst/ expound diligent preaching/ preaching once a month: to which end he stowreth up a fresh/ the difference between spiritual food/ and corporal/ before answered. But because he dare not take upon him this defence/ and the rest of the treatise hath nothing but a childish excuse/ off his reproaches against the Ministers of London, an impudent denial of his lewdness towards the women, an intolerable brag off his benefits/ and of his preaching often, out courses against me/ all beside the cause: I will leave them in the reader's judgement.  
In the next Tract. off the great convenience off preaching before administration of the Sacraments/ falling also into this 
pag. 562.  treatise (as that which pulleth at the lest one of those feathers/ wherewith non residentes so willingly take their flight from their own charges) there should have been almost as title to answer/ as in the other: if the D. had not used such open false accusations/ as he may thereby seem to have striven for the mastery thereof/ with the father of them. And first to let pass his correction of thorder off my reasoning/ whereby he maketh himself more than ridiculous/ to all which have a grain of knowledge that ways: to that he saith/ that john as minister preached in the wilderness, and baptized in jordan, and thereupon will conclude/ that if preaaching before the Sacraments now have ground in johnes example, preaching in the wilderness, and baptizing in rivers have the same: I answer that the case is nothing like. For his preaching in the wilderness/ was by special vocation/ whereunto he was directed by an express propheceye. This instance therefore is unfitly alleged/ which 
Es. 40. 7.  albeit it were incident to his ministery: yet that was by extraordinary calling. The baptizing in jordan/ was for that he sought the commodity of water/ as appeareth by other places/ where 
john. 3 23  he likewise baptised not as the D. pretendeth/ for that his ministry called him more to that place/ then unto an other.  
It is also untrue/ that the Apostles in that they were ministers of the word, preached in all places, and wrought miracles. For then all ministers 
pa. 563.  off the word/ should do the same. Considering that as whatsoever agreeth unto one man/ as he is man/ agreeth unto all/ even so whatsoever agreeth unto one minister off the word/ as he is minister thereof/ must needs be verified off all. The reason whereof is more known/ then that the D. without blushing/ ought thus to be ignorant off: that whatsoever is verified off a general, as general, is verified off all underneath it. Therefore that the apostles preached the word/ they did it in that they were ministers off the word: but that they preached in all places/ and joined therewith miracles/ they did it not as ministers off the word/ but as such ministers/ that is to say/ extraordinary/ and Apostles. Where he saith/ there is an other reason off preaching before john's baptism, then before ours, for that john had to do with those that believed not in Christ, whhich he calleth a little after infidels, and we have to baptize infants only: to pass by his ignorance off calling the jews at that time infidels (the only people of God/ even before john's baptism) which notwithstanding deserveth the whip: he ought to understand/ that albeit the baptism be administered unto infant's/ which have no use of preaching yet forsomuch as the knowledge of that ministry/ necessarily pertaineth to the whole assembly/ and particularly to those which undertake the bringing up of the infants▪ the necessity off preaching before the Sacrament/ doth remain.  
He saith/ that it can not be gathered of S. Math. that S. john preached immediately before he baptised and yet the first reason I alleged/ 
Diuis. 2. pag. 563. 19 ca 4. 5  that he baptised after he had preached, he clean passeth by: the other of the Acts/ he understandeth not how it can be gathered. Although the interpretation I noted was not commonly known/ as that which touched off some few/ was not seen of divers writers of name: yet when I pointed him to it/ I supposed he would have understanded. But I presumed the ●●che off his understanding/ and yet not knowing what I would note/ he condemneth the sense I have followed/ as tending to Anabaptistry or Papistry, or I know not what. S. Paul meaning to refer the gifts of the holy ghost/ which the twelve disciples at Ephesus/ were to receive by putting on of hands/ unto the performance 
1. Act. 5.  of the truth of the promise figured by baptism/ and so to join the sign with the thing signified: in the fourth verse showeth how john preached, that his disciples should believe in jesus Christ which came after him. After in the 9 vers. he showeth 
Act. 19  that those disciples of john, and not (as is commonly supposed) those twelve disciples off Ephesus/ having heard john's preaching, and not (as is also supposed) Paul's/ were baptised into 
4. verse 5. verse.  the name off the lord jesus. Which interpretation as it floweth/ and hath plain proof of the two conjunctions/ which have relation one to an other/ and can not without violence be severed: so of all other it most stoppeth the mouth off the anabaptists, and Papists, taking all colour of Argument from them: and withal noteth the order I alleged it for/ that after they had heard john preach, they were baptised.  
Where it being most boldly affirmed off the D. that it is manifest 
Diuis. 3 pag. 505  that our Saviour Christ was baptised without preaching, he ought to have showed it by manifest reasons: he not only set down no reason/ but against the reasons I alleged/ opposeth his naked saying. For that that S. Luke hath not, that S. john preached immediately before he baptised, is unworthy of answer: as if the order off the story could not show that/ without the word immediately: or as if nothing might be said done immediately after an other/ but where some such precise note of time is added. That he saith/ he knoweth no purpose why our Saviour Christ should be at john's sermon: it was answered/ that he vouchesafing to be baptised off john/ it was probable/ that he would honour the ministry of the word with his presence: which he passeth with silence, beside that he must learn/ that our Saviour Christ growing in wisdom/ 
Luk. 2. 52.  and stature until the time of his baptism/ when he received the holy ghost without measure: no more neglected the ordinary means of God/ whereby he received his increase off wisdom/ then the ordinary nourishment whereby he grew in stature.  
That the disciples were preached unto of the use of the supper/ 
Diuis. 4:  before they received/ the reason followeth in the 6. divis. That S. Luke noted the sums/ rather then laid out at large/ the sermons of our Sa. Christ: howsoever the D. will not acknowledge it/ is more manifest than his impudent denial/ ought to cause me enter into proof off. To the next reason/ of continual practice 
Diuis. 5.  of preaching immediately before the Sacraments/ proved out of S. Luke/ his answer is insufficient. For beside that it is untrue/ that the assembly infants excepted/ are sufficiently instructed off the use of baptism: his answer off preaching immediately before the sacraments, to those that are not converted, hath no place/ considering that S. Paul preached to those in the administration of 
Act. 20. 7  the supper/ which were already converted.  
Where I confess that neither the Adm. nor I hold for a 
Diuis. 6. 566.  thing simply necessary/ that the word be preached immediately before the Sacraments: he saith that there is then no cause to contend, it being agreed off the convenience. If it be very convenient that preaching be immediately before the Sacraments: then the custom off reading only/ is not sufficient: which is that he found fault with in the Adm. for at the lest a great convenience is wanting to that sufficiency. And seeing the scripture commendeth things convenient/ as it forbiddeth the contrary: the order of preaching immediately before the Sacraments/ even in this respect/ ought (unless it be rare/ and upon great causes) to be observed. Where I say the life of the sacraments dependeth upon the the word preached: the D. saith it is a fowl error. no marvel according to his black divinity. But how cometh it so fowl? because the life of the Sacraments dependeth upon the promises in the word. I grant/ and neither upon preaching, nor reading. that is utterly false. for when baptism belongeth not unto infants/ but in that their ancestors in the convenant/ and those no otherwise in convenant/ then by faith which cometh are preaching: it followeth/ 
Rom. 4. 12. & 10. 14.  that the parents having no Fruit of the covenant but by preaching by / can much less have profit off the Sacrament without it I grant their infant's salvation/ dependeth upon the election of God: yet that they may be partakers of baptism/ dependeth on that the promise' preached was received (at lest in the church's judgement) of those of whom they are descended. Thus the doctrine fowl in the D. judgement/ is beautiful in the scriptures.  
Let us now see whether it be so uncourteously handled of others as off the D. Caluin showing that the Sacrament 
Instit. lib. 4. c. 14. 4.  standeth of the word/ and element/ saith we must understand the word, notwispered, without understanding, and faith, with a noise only, as if it had power like an enchantement, to consecrated the Element: but which being preached 
Har. in 3. ●arg.  causeth us to understand, what the visible sign meaneth. Likewise upon these words (Preaching the baptism of repentance) the word sacrament doth not signify a vain Ceremony, which standeth of shows without doctrine, but the word of God is always annexed: which giveth life unto the outward Ceremony. I understand the word not mumbled between the teeth, but pronounced with a clear voice, fit to edify the faith▪ for it is not said simply that john baptised to repentance, as though the grace of God were shut up in the visible sign: but that he preached the virtue of baptism, that the sign might have effect, by the word he preached. Here is not only the same judgement/ but almost the same words: that the life of the sacrament dependeth upon the word/ and that preached. In his dispute after/ as though I had said that the sacraments are dead/ unless the word be preached immediately before/ he declareth that be is given to speak all untruth/ be it never so apparent. For it is directly against that I set down/ in the same place/ he raiseth this false accusation: where I confessing that there is no precise necessity of preaching immediately before the sacraments/ affirm notwithstanding/ that preaching ought to 
Divis 7. pag. 567.  go before them.  
In that he bringeth out of Zuing. against the anabaptists/ the first place is altogether against him. For although the disciples baptised without teaching: yet it being said there that our Saviour Christ tawght, it is evident that preaching went before the sacrament. The other place is to fill up room. For we say not that young infants must be taught before they be baptised: but that doctrine must go before the sacraments in the church of God/ as the publishing off the grant before the seal. Where he would conclude that I understood the necessity off preaching before the 
Pag. 568.  administration, not in respect off the rest off the church present, but of the infants, for that the life of the sacrament pertaineth not unto others than those which be pareakers: Who hath so blinded him that he understandeth not/ that baptism received off the standers by in their infancy/ taketh effect daily by preaching after they be off age: and that without preaching in those which be off discretion/ it remaineth unfruitful/ and serving only to condemnation. Yea even the baptism of the infant's/ not only pertaineth unto the parents for whose comfort it is also ministered: but dependeth as I have showed off this/ that they of whom they come/ have through preaching off the word before that baptism/ given their names unto Christ. Thus having obtained that it is very convenient/ that there should be preaching immediately before the administration of Sacraments: I return back with one band more/ to hold the Pastor from roving beyond the tether of his church. Other things impertinent unto this place shallbe answered in their places.  
His triumphs upon that I confess/ that the Pastor may 
Divis. 14. & 15. pag. 245. etc.  for some business with leave off his church, with an able deputy be absent: notwithstanding he would so feign mount them on high by his questions/ be beggarly/ and do scarce creep upon the ground. For where he asketh first/ whether he may not aswell be away for public affairs, as for private: he may if they be of that sort/ which agreed with his vocation. But what then? will he conclude of an inch an ell/ off a week a month/ off a month half a year: and off a case of necessity/ make an ordinary licence? when S. Paul will have him which entereth into this warfare of ministry/ to unwrap himself of all occasions which may draw him from 
2. Tim. 2. 4.  it: being already entered/ he will much less suffer that he should either seek new occasions of absence/ or take all that are offered. Our Saviour Christ not suffering those whom he called to this work/ to go bury their dead/ and give the farewell unto 
Luk. 9 60 61. 62.  those of their house: declared sufficiently that they ought to be very urgent causes/ which should draw the minister off the word/ from the charge committed unto him. And when his love towards God/ must be moten by feeding off his flock committed unto his charge: his long/ and often voluntary absence/ must 
john 21.  needs prove a small love in him towards the Lord. Which reason being alleged/ is altogether unanswered. This rare absence/ and that upon urgent cause/ may appear a so by the practice of the church. The Council of men's/ decreing that the Bishop upon sickness or some other urgent cause of absence not able 
2. Tom. Cal. 25.  to preach, should have some every sunday, and other festdayes to preach in his steed: declareth that the use off the church/ did neither suffer the bishop to be away but upon great cause: and that not so much as one holy day/ without a preaching minister to supply his place. Augustine saith/ that he was not absent from the church of Hippo, but compelled by sickness. Zuinglius putting 
Epist. 138  difference between an apostle/ and Pastor/ saith that he that doth the office of a Pastor, is always in the power of 
Ecclesias.  the church over which he is set, and never goeth from it. Upon which both testimonies of the scripture/ and practise off the church it appeareth/ how to have a deputy ought not to be (as the D. would have it) an accoustomed thing: but rare/ and upon urgent causes.  
Where before he allegeth for proof of a deputy/ that there 
Pag. 221.  is no shepherd which hath not a boy, or a man to supply his absence: he ought to understand/ that our Saviour Christ is that master shephherd/ and therefore he being but a servant/ can no more set once his charge/ then one servant discharge himself upon an other. Beside/ what sheepmaister is there of so small housbandry/ which will be content that his stipend should be mangled/ and a portion given unto an hireling/ for a monthly/ or quarterly oversight of his flock/ suffer the shepherd to enjoy the rest? it may well be for the poursprofit off the shepherd: but it can not be but to the great scare off the sheep. considering that not only the hired can not by any likelihood/ have that care over the flock which the proper pastor hath: but also that all this disputation tendeth hither/ that they may have a reading/ or other in sufficient substitute: which as the shepherds boy/ or rather eurr/ content with a lock/ or two/ will leave Master Person the master shepherd/ the rest off the fleece. For such is their fidelity/ that where as in times past the priests are commanded to bear the ark upon 
Nom. 7. ●  their own shoulders/ so they should feed their flocks themselves: they are not only content to shifted it from their own shoulders/ but as the foolish/ and idle priests in committing it to 
2. Sam. ●. 6.  such unstilfull governors/ they lay it upon a cart/ hale it with oxen/ not with the adventure/ but with certain event of an overthrow. Although herein I speak too favourably of the greatest number of them: which do not bestow so much cost as a new cart/ and a draft of oxen come to. For they have learned their howsebandry rather of him which teacheth/ that always it standeth 
Plin. l. 18. nature hist  a man in lest, which may be done by a poor ass. And if this carting off the church of God/ were sent home to our popish Philisthins from whence it came: the kitchen fire being thereby 
1. Sam. 6. 8.  well abbated/ this disputation for adeputy/ would be well cooled. For an able man would either for conscience/ or honesties sake/ keep himself from this hyrelingship. I say conscience/ because amongst other corruptions/ he can not avoid the crime of Simony (as they call it) whilst to obtain a place/ he is content to part stakes with the Pastor. Honesty/ whilst all not servile minded/ will rather choose to be free/ then under the yoke off an other 
1. Cor. 7. 24.  man's service.  
His second question/ whether the flock be not in like danger in the Pastor's absence with leave, as without: is altogether from the purpose/ when it is no lawful for him neither with leave/ nor without leave/ to be away with danger of his flock. His third/ where I find in scripture that the Pastor ought to have leave off his parish: is answered in that I showed that the Pastors are belonging to their churches/ and are their servants: which he altogether passeth by. His last asketh how he can in his absence have an able deputy, seeing he may not be admitted to the ministry, which hath not a certain flock. As though in such necessity for so small a time/ the supply may not be made by the Pastor's hard by: which is also answer to that he objecteth pag. 249.  
Unto the next divis. I answer not. Upon that many parishes 
Chap. 2. Diuis. 2. pag. 247. of Pluralities of Benefices.  may be joined in one, and fix towns in France (as he saith) are committed unto one Pastor, he concludeth that one Pastor may have divers flocks: which is unworthy any answer. As if a thousand sheep in one pasture/ were not easilier/ and with more commodity tended/ then three in three sheepgates. For as touching the preaching off the word/ and administering the Sacraments/ unto divers towns assembled into one body uff a church: the labour is almost all one in ten/ and ten hundred. The residue of the charge being comen with him unto the rest off the elders/ may be (especially in such necessities) borne out by increasing their numbered/ according to the compass off the church's territory. It is also untrue that he affirmeth I have said/ that the numbered, or distance of place is all one. And it is inconvenient/ that either a greater numbered be assembled into the body off one particular church/ then can be at once taught of one mouth/ or that the numbered should be taken out of towns/ farther removed from the places off the churches resort/ then that they may have convenient access. Likewise it is untrue which he saith off six towns to one Pastor in France. For although one church be assembled out off divers towns: yet it falleth out that the lest part off those towns pertaineth unto the church: and those few meet together in one place/ to receive the nouriture provided for them off the Lord/ by the hand off their Pastor.  
To that alleged/ that the Pastor if he will have many flocks, should content himself with that stipend of them all, 
Diuis. 3. 4 5. pag. 247. 248. etc.  which he hath off one, when that one is able to maintain him, and his family honestly: he answereth not. yet was it necessary to be answered/ considering that thereby the peinting of that Zeal/ under pretence whereof they spread their nets over so many churches/ is washed away. Where he accuseth me hotly/ other of deceiving, or being deceived, in that the Council off Nice, is put without the addition off Second. whereby it might be severed from the purer Council off Nice: I can not precisely say/ whether the leaving out of Second/ were my fault/ or the fault of some other. but that I meant to deceive none/ there be which can witness: by that that in the second edition (howsoever it was omitted) I gave a note whereby that should be corrected. His reason wherewith he would prove/ that I meant to abuse the reader, for that I set it before Damasus, is to frivolous: considering that that conterfeict Damasus/ mentioned in the first Tome of counsels/ was not before this second Council: and it is not unwonted to put the judgement of a council before that off a particular person. As for the corruption of the Council, I have showed how that maketh more against the D. 
pa. 223.  then if the testimony had been fetched from the first Council. And where he saith/ the Council meant that one should not have permitted unto him more great cities than one: it is a shameless corruption of the mind off the Council. Considering that the drift thereof is/ that one should not have more to live one/ then is needful to maintain himself competently: and therefore is content as it were to wink at those/ which are placed in poor churches not able to maintain their Pastor: albeit it inclineth rather to this/ that he 
Propter homin● inopiam indulgeatur.  should supply that which is wanting/ by some honest occupation.  
That he addeth that Gratian himself doth so expound it: all men understand how unsavourly it is spoken. As if it were any marvel that Gratian so expounded it/ which is known to be an open corrupter of the Counsels/ and manifestly in this point off having many benefices/ not only in this council/ but in that of Chalcedon. For where the Council decreed that no man might be ordained in two cities: he doth impudently dally with it/ saying he may be notwithstanding archbishop of one city, and bishop 
Can. 2, Clericum.  of an other: provided that he enjoy the one as entitled to it, and the other by way of commendation. Which is but a toy to mock an ape. As if a man should say/ that it were not lawful to have two wives at one's/ but yet he might have two women/ one under the title of a wife/ a other of a lemend. This interpretation of the Council/ is yet made worse by the D. for he addeth that a Pastor may not be ordained in more great cities than one: as thoug the Council would permit one to be over divers small cities. The proof brought by the Council/ that 
1. Cor. 7. 20.  every one ought to tarry in that vocation wherein he is called, is fit. The reason against it/ that the Apostle speaketh off the kind of vocation, and not of the place, is fond: as although it were not a man's calling/ to do that he hath to do/ in one certain place: or as although if the soldier/ or ambassador commanded to serve in one place/ serve in an other/ he offended not against this rule off the Apostle. Where fault is found/ that I set down counsels in the plural numbered, alleging but one: he dealeth very straightly which will not suffer me to speak as other do. but that there may be counsels/ let him learn that the same was decreed in the council of Toledo. Whereunto I join Master Hopers' judgement/ 
Caus. 10. can. 3. Upon the comaun. Thou shalt not steal.  which saith that no man of what gifts soever may have two livings. and therefore he is not so much a shepherd which hath many flocks/ as the D. saith/ as a thief: seeing not able to do the office of a Pastor towards them/ he pilleth them.  
touching Damasus/ that his purpose was nothing less than to condemn idle bishops/ himself idlest off all: shallbe seen in an other place/ when it shall appear that he had no good meaning in these words. Notwithstanding the comparison (which likeneth the Pastors that put over their charge, unto harlots that give their children to other to nurse, that they may sooner give themselves to lust) being apt/ I took as a good stone set in an evil place. In the next diu. the first part/ that it is better 
pag. 149.  that one should have divers flocks/ then any be untawght/ is answered: in that it is both better that one church be sufficiently fed/ then all insufficiently: and it is alleged before/ and after/ how the want off preachers is in part because they are not sought after/ in part because they are driven out/ which were placed. 
In the 2. divis. off this cha. Divis. 7. ●ag. 250.  The other part is also answered.  
All the Answer. witnesses/ brought in to prove that Denis the Monkish pope first divided parishes, and Dioceses, are suspected. Polidore whom he hath chosen to speak in the name off the rest/ doth (as the D. himself hath done) falsify the words of the Monk. Considering that he saith not that he appointed dioceses/ but parishes/ and church yards only/ making no mention off dioceses. Whereupon the canonists themselves say/ that bounds 
80 distin. gl●s. cau. 13. quest. 1 ca 1. upon the words of Denis.  of bishoprics were divided long before. Both which opinions shall appear more at large to be false/ where I shall show God willing/ by what practices the bishops stretched out their arms so far. Afterwards the man in going about to show mine/ proclaimeth his own ignorance. For where he saith there was no limitation of place in the Apostles time, he is greatly deceived. For beside that there is almost in every story before the Apostles/ often mention off provinces/ wherinto the governements were divided: Cicero maketh mention off the division of provinces 
Lively 13 Epist. same.  into dioceses. The Romans likewise before the Apostles had their Curias/ the same with the greek word whereof our word (parish) is taken. Also touching the very word parish, by 
Euseb. 5. 17.  that Eusebius reciteth out of Apolonius/ a Senator of Rome/ who lived about the year of our Lord 180. of Montanus which could not be received, not so much as of his own parish whence he was: it appeareth that it was both in use/ and in the same signification that we take it/ long before Denis (of whom the D. would father this division of Parishes) was bishop. So it is manifest these divisions were before the Monks time/ yea before the Apostles time.  
And where he saith/ all men may know that limitation of Parishes, and dioceses could not be made but of men in authority, and thereupon concludeth/ that it could not be made by the Apostles: it is very true touching the precise limitation. but how is he so blinded that he can not also thereby see/ that it is an idle dream that he so greatly striveth for/ that Denis limited dioceses, parishes, & c? considering that the Denis he supposeth/ living about An. 266. had no authority/ but was a poor Bishop under persequnting Emperors. And if the Emperors had been Christian then/ as they were heathen: yet how cometh it to pass/ he doth not understand/ that in going about to make men believe/ that the Bishop of Rome at that time had authority to limit dioceses/ parishes/ etc. in the church of God: he setteth up a Pope/ and armeth him with that authority which he never came unto four hundredth years after. Finally if this Monk were off any credit/ he is directly against him even in this cause. For off the words before alleged it is clear/ that he appointed unto every elder a several parish: wherein he should keep himself: which is against the plurality of benefices/ that he so greatly striveth for.  
He asketh where it appeareth, that the scripture divided national churches into congregations, and parishes? I answer that off that the scripture 
Act. 14. 23 Tit. 15. 1. Cor. 41. 40. Psal. 122. 3  willeth elders to be chosen for every competent congregation/ and particular body of church/ and also that these assemblies (as all other things in the church) should be with the greatest convenience/ so that as jerusalem had commendation in having her building knit closely together/ even so the church as much as may be conveniently/ should have her parts not only in a spiritual bond of charity/ but in neighbourhood of dwellings well trussed one with an other: it is apparent/ that although the scripture doth not mention parishes/ nor precisely define off the compass/ yet it giveth the rule/ whereby they are squared out. For when a parish well bounded/ is nothing else but a number of those families/ which dwelling near together may have a commodious resort: and the assemblies of the churches ought so to be ranged/ as they may be nearest the place off their spiritual refection: it followeth that the scripture hath after a sort/ given the church's tarriers/ and that a parish well bounded for the spiritual intercommuning/ hath testimony out of the word off God.  
Where he asketh proof of this/ that dioces is taken for a parish: it appeareth first that in the primitive church/ bishop's in steed 
Euseb. 6. li 9 10 20 21.  that they are now of such a dioces/ were then of a parish. afterward when they began to hook into their possession/ more churches than they were able to feed: they were called bishops of dioceses▪ yet the name parish was not quite worn out/ but indifferently used for a diocese: as appeareth by the council of Ancyran/ where one translation having diocese, tother hath parish. 
Ca 18.  And it shall better appear in the 8. Tract. that at the first there were dioceses off so narrow compass: that divers parishes in England/ may appear to be off greater circuit than they.  
That the place of burial mentioned of Euseb. what in the field, may as I said be gathered off the use off the church: which I have noted in an other place. That the churches of Christ had neither then/ nor in the time that the D. imagineth/ any churchyards/ is manifest: considering that then the temples (whereunto the churchyards were annexed) were possessed off idolaters. The answer to the incommodities of burial in churchiardes/ that by that reason churches, and other things must necessarily be removed: is a begging off that in question/ and otherwise insufficient. For it is in demand weather it be convenient: and if it had been/ yet being not necessary/ it ought for such abuses to be taken away. And beside the incommodities assigned/ it was as may appear/ taken of the Papists/ from the superstition of the heathen. For Lycurgus 
Plut. in vit. Lycur.  made this law/ that men should bury in cities, and round about the temples. Now residence being necessary/ and that principally for preaching off the word/ it appeareth how disordered a power it is off the bishop: of whose licence the pastor both chosen and ordained/ must depend/ in a thing precisely commanded to him by the Lord/ and for omitting whereof the thunderbolt 
1. Tim. 3: 10. 1. Cor. 9 16. Chap. 3. Tract. 6. pag. 255.  of God's course/ is from heaven thrown upon him. Therefore the chapter entitled of licences to preach/ shall be here in a word or two dispatched.  
First the D. charged with false dealing/ in that he surmiseth of the Ad. as if one might preach without their approbation to whom it appertaineth: answereth their meaning is plain. belike he hath it by revelation/ for in their words there is not a title sounding that ways. But he saith it was their own case, which put from preaching would have preached against the bishops william. Where leaving that to those that may have knowledge thereof/ I answer that he toucheth not the matter. For both they speak/ and my reply was of those/ which ordained to preach the gospel/ are sent to their charges not able to do their duties without further licence: as if a man charged to do a thing/ should be bound hand and foot of him that charged him/ and laid at his mercy whether he will loose him. Whereunto he answeretth not a word. Thirdly he layeth to my charge/ that I had not answered touching that the Adm. would have preached against the bishops will: a word whereof is not found but only in his latter book. then which what greater dotage can there be? as if there could be default off answer/ whera there was no such thing objected.  
In that I said/ withowt their approbation to whom it appertaineth: he excepteth that there is an equivocation, it being not set down by whom the election should be made. Where beside that it was apparent before by a whole treatise/ what we think in that behalf/ and out of place to speak off it here: his exception is too childish. For to whomsoever th'election doth appertain/ this case remaineth the same. whether it be unlawful to ordain one to preach the word/ and yet to keep it still in his power/ whether he shall do it or no. Offa this sort is that he saith/ I suppose no man may preach which hath not certain charge, and only in it. whereof although I make not here one word of mention: yet howsoever it be taken/ this case remaineth one. Where I showed that the bishop could not allege for defence/ that he whom he sendeth prisoner to his church/ is either heritik, or schismatic, or suspected, for that he ought not then to have admitted him unto that ministry: he useth open falsehood. For he saith I suppose that hypocrites, schismatics etc. may be known forthwith: or suspected may be by and by removed. Whereas first I have not a word of Hypocrites/ and have before manifestly taught the contrary off that he here forgeth/ that the church can not proceed against Hypocrites, that is those whose sins are not discovered: and that God only hath reserved their judgement unto himself. Then where I show/ that those which are to be admitted to the ministry/ owgt to be free from suspicion of heresy/ or schism: the D. answereth as if I had said/ that those which have already been in the ministry/ were upon suspicion of heresy to be disposed. Which what silly Sophistery it is/ and whether this whole divis. declare the D. spoiled off all both conscience/ and judgement: I leave it to be considered off all men.   

The 5. Tract. and 6. un the O.  
Offa preaching ministers.  
Here may be justly renewed the complaint of the prophet/ 
Eze. 44. 8  that the priests did not only themselves not execute their charge/ according to the laws given in that behalf: but gave those also entrance/ to whom the lord had utterly denied it. For it is not enough for the D. to feed hymself/ and others with the blood of the church/ in defence of the unlawful absence of the Pastor: unless by this maintenance off unpreaching ministers/ as it were by banner spread/ he make a feast thereof unto all the ravening/ and Cormorant fowls in the land. And so as if it were a small thing/ to bear the condemnation of his own parishes: he stretcheth out his hand/ to have part in the gilt of others. And although this defence may seem to be given to these woeful readers: yet if we give a little heed/ we shall easily perceive/ that both this puddle/ and others which depend upon it/ return to fill if it were possible/ the Ocean sea of non residents. For non residence would bring little either to filling off cofres/ or bathing of them in the delights of the world/ or to what other thing soever they in their absence propound: unless there were such hungry knights/ as would for a crust of bread/ supply this absence. Now for removing off these sweepinges out of the church ministry/ we must come back to a divis. touching this matter.  
Where it is said that the people need not pine away for lack off food, seeing they have one to read, etc.: it is but a begging off that 
pag. 153.  in question. for is this the diet which God hath appointed to his children/ or portion he hath commanded his faithful servants to give unto his family in due season/ or that delicate table/ and 
Math. 24. 45. Math. 13: 52.  cup that runneth over? are these the householders which before they set up/ or take the charge off housekeping/ have filled all the it garners/ furnished all their cellars/ frawght all their threasuries with all store new and old/ fit to entertain the sons/ and daughters off the great king of heaven? we is unto that house hold that hath such a steward/ and woe shall be unto that steward that upon such provision/ undertaketh the stewardship of the house off God. But woe and woe again shall be to him/ that not only himself famisheth the how should which he hath/ but teacheth others to do so: and not only doth evil/ but justifieth the evil doer. A. great part of the D. allowance here/ cometh to be examined after: as that bore reading is not able without Gods extraordinary work/ to deliver one soul/ and that homilies are not serviceable in this solemn banquet.  
Now to run through the rest/ I answer prayers, and Sacraments forasmuch as they take effect by the preaching of the word/ where that is not/ those do not only not feed/ but are ordinarily to further condemnation. That which the Curates can give before they have learned their catechism (of which time is here spoken) is poison and no meat: so that hitherto they may pine/ for any thing that the Answ. setteth before them/ in such sort especially as he setteth it. All the hope therefore of delivering them from famyn/ hangeth upon the well disposed preacher, which if he feed another flock with the hindrance of his own/ or having no flock go about in circuit whether so ever he thinketh good: I will not dent but the one and the other may have a good meaning therein/ but whether the lord allow off it (unless he be able to show the seal off some extraordinary calling) I leave it to be considered/ of that which hath been before disputed. I omit that I know myself/ that within seven miles of Cambridge/ there have been parishes where one of these sermons was not/ in four whole years. Which if y● be so near Cambridge/ where the greatest number of those preachers be: what is to be thought off other places off the Realm?  
Unless you count every reproach/ and railing word an argument/ here is no word to prove, that it is meet to enjoin ministers to learn catechisms: that is to say/ to prove that they may be ministers off the word/ before they have learned the Christian A. B. C. which children of seen yaere old in reformed churches/ can answer unto. They are necessary points wh● he are taught there. So is the A. B. C. to him which will learn to read. they are the weightiest things in our Religion. Else they could not be the foundations which uphold the whole building. To have said something you should have said/ they are the hardest/ and difficultest points of religion, but that you can not/ those being without the circuit of a catechism. I am content therefore you shall praise the book with what words you will: but when you have done/ look that you leave it a Catechism/ that is to say a treatise of the first elements/ or A. B. C. of Christianity. And then it followeth/ that your enjoining off your ministers to learn it: doth necessarily presuppose ignorance of those things/ the want off knowledge whereof in that age/ not only owghte to remove them from the college of ministers: but leaveth them no place till they be better instructed/ to sit amongst the Christians. And if you think this no discredit at all, you have your credit separate from the credit of the church: which is discredited/ dishonoured/ yea utterly destroyed by such blind eyes. And I may further say/ that he which thinketh this no discredit, may be feared to seek credit in the ignorance of the ministers: whilst amongst such a blind company/ his sight may be somewhat/ and whilst he may use their simplicity/ to the establishment of that tyranny/ which a learned ministry would never bear.  
But because the Ans. can say nothing/ let us hear what the Helvetian confession (fully repeated again 253. and yet again 484. mentioned also the fourth time) saith for them. we condemn all unmeet ministers, not endued with gifts necessary for a shepherd, that should feed his flock. What do I hear? do you condemn all/ & c? harken Master D. here is sentence of condemnation given off those/ which you defend. Was there no easier word to use but condemning? if they had only said they approved them not/ speaking out of the word of God/ as they do it had been a shrewd blow. But in saying flatt'y that they condemn them: they have said what they could/ for the utter sweeping them out of the church/ as long as it standeth. And take this also with you/ that in condemning them/ they condemn the making/ and defence of them Thus our ignorant ministers have once passed the condemnation of the churches and in this condemnation they lie/ and shall lie as long as the word of God remaineth/ if all men in the world would absolve them. But let us hear whether they be reprieved by the judgement of these churches/ or whether they give any pardon/ which gave the condemnation.  
There followeth that they allow better off the harmless simplicity of some, then of the exquisite learning of others, joined with pride. And worthily. For neither can pride agreed with manners of the minister of God: and harmless simplicity may well agreed/ with a competent learning meet for that function. In the end they conclude/ that they reject not the good simplicity of certain, so they be not altogether unskilful of God, and his word. first this can make nothing for excuse off our ministers. For when they are to learn their Catechism/ and the principles of Christian Religion/ what knowledge is left unto them of God/ and of his word? Then it is like/ that by harmless simplicity they mean some rare/ and singular holiness/ whereby they go as far beyond the other in life/ as they come behind them in learning: which all see to be otherwise in our ignorant ministers/ oftentimes the masters of misrule to all the parish. Otherwise they knew what Jerome saith/ 
Ad Oceanum.  that in that S. Paul requireth that a bishop should be wise, he barreth those which under the name of simplicity, excuse the folly of ministers.  
last of all by that skill of God/ and of his word/ they must needs understand such gifts/ as are necessary for a shepherd to feed his flock: which is ability to teach/ to exhort/ to convince the adversary: and if he have those/ although he have not the knowledge of tongues/ and art's/ in the name of God let him have the chair. And such I confess our church hath had/ and hath some/ but they are very rare: and off these I doubt not but the confession meaneth. Neither can they be without manifest injury/ thowghte to receive those which they had before condemned. for shall we say of them that with one mouth/ yea with one breath they blue whout/ and kolde? whereupon I conclude/ that the condemnation being here greater than the pardon/ and the wound wider than the plaster: you were very near driven/ when you were compelled to use the testimony of these churches/ to cover the nakedness of the ignorant ministers▪ your notable slander off the Adm. I am content shall (as you say) rest in the reader's judgement. That I have gathered your argument faithfully/ touching the learning of Catechisms/ is showed before. There followeth the 2. divis. (the first being a blank) where beside the causes by him assigned 
pa. 2●2.  of want off able Ministers/ be to no purpose/ considering that we show there can be no cause of instituting a reading ministry/ and be also out of place/ considering that he should have opposed them/ to those which I alleged in that behalf: that 
pa. 484.  which only was material/ that we be in cause off that fewnes, is only said.  
Where I alleged out of S. Paul/ that it is an express commandment that a pastor should be able to teach, and 
Diuis. 3. 253. 1, Tim. 3. 2 Tit. 1. 9  convince gaynsayers, and therefore to be broken upon no occasion: he answereth that S. Paul showeth the qualities of a pastor, but saith not that we may not have reading Pastors, if there be none, or not a sufficient number in whom all those qualities concur. Then which what can be more bluntly said? For this being a general rule/ he ought to have showed where the Lord giveth leave to take unteaching ministers/ contrary unto the tenor of this commandment: which he is never able to do. For the scripture commanding the pastors should be able to teach/ and convince doth forthwith shutowt all other: it being a general rule/ that it both commandeth the contrary off that it forbiddeth: and forbiddeth the contrary off that it commandeth. And there is no commandment in the scripture/ which may not be eluded by the D. answer. For thus it may be said/ that we may have images in churches to teach the ignorant: for that although the lord forbidden them/ yet he hath not said that where there are none/ or not a sufficient numbered of able teachers/ we may not have such supplies. Those also which pressed with extreme hunger seek remedy in stealing/ find him their proctor. For the lord hath not said in so many words/ that one which is hunger-bitten/ may not steal as much as will save his life. But when all commandments be general in the scripture/ albeit they have not always the universal note off All/ or None: unless there be some exception declared / this off the sufficiency of the pastor/ being not only universal/ but universally propounded/ is better armed against all these fond cavils. For our saviour declaring that every one instructed 
Mat 13. 52  as a scribe unto the kingdom of God/ ought to be provided aforehand with store of doctrine/ and judgement to apply it according to the present occasion: doth give manifestly to understand/ that no one may be received into the order off pastors/ which is not able to teach his flock.  
And the D. may as well say/ that in default of sober/ chaste/ and quiet pastors/ they may choose dronckards/ whoremongers/ swashbucklers: as that in default off a teaching pastor/ they may take unteaching. Yea rather may he say the one than the other/ considering that sobriety/ chastity/ and quietness are comen with him to all Christians: but ability to teach/ and confute are his proper duties. Therefore although these be both untolerable/ yet the church receiveth les harm/ by pastors which infected with 〈◊〉 do teach: then by them which free from these/ are utterly unable to teach. For the good life of the pastor without doctrine/ whereby they may be both taught to put their trust in god/ and see the good works they should follow/ is as a fair colour without light to show it by/ utterly unprofitable: where the word truly preached/ shineth oftentimes clearer in the hearts/ then the cloud of the pastors disordered life/ can stay the fruit of. And albeit all commandments of God/ are such as may not for any cause be broken: yet this S. Paul giveth off the Pastor/ hath a special fence cast about it/ whereby it might be kept in greater safety. For the spirit of God/ foreseeing this shameful profanation of the ministry/ together with the present danger unto the church/ useth a preface to this description of the pastors office/ used rarely/ and but in matters of greatest stableness/ saying it is a certain doctrine. As if he should say/ that which followeth is an unvariable/ 
1. Tim. 3. 1  and unchangeable rule/ which can by no authority of men/ for any cause not only be broken/ but not so much as bowed/ or once wrinched a side.  
His reason that Paul was glad those preached, which swerved from 
Divis 2. pag. 44.  that rule, beside that I have showed it ridiculous: is here out of place/ considering that these readers which would have rend his heart in pieces/ being ordained with breach off the rule of God could not cheer him up again by preaching: whereunto they are as fit as an ox to fly. Witness the D. himself/ which addeth that our ignorant ministers may by study so profit in knowledge, that they may be able privately to exhort Where it is merueilons to see how he foameth out their shame/ whom he hath taken to his defence. If he had said/ that in time with study they might be able to preach: yet forsomuch as while that grass groweth/ the people perish/ his answer had been untolerable. Now giving no further hope/ then that in time they will be able privately to admonish/ 
Rom. 15. 14. Heb. 3. 13.  which every Christian ought to do: he hath given sentence of them/ that they will never be able to do the work off Pastors/ whereof they bear the name: that is that they will never be but idols. What they do by reading is after to be seen. The place of Osea which resecteth from the ministry/ those that have not kn●●●●●ge 
Cap. 4. vers. 6.  off the law/ because it failed a little in the quotation/ he hath let quietly go by.  
Where he giveth me the lie, for that I ascribe unto him this argument/ there must be reading in the church, therefore ministers that can do nothing but read: his words be these. I see not how you can condemn reading ministers, seeing reading is necessary in the church. let the reader judge what a hard forehead he hath. Where I concluded thereupon/ that every one which could break bread, distribute the cup, etc. should be a meet minister: all see that it followeth upon the former reason. And this which the D. counteth a jest, he is not able to answer in his greatest earnest. His answer to the place of S. james is frivolous. For 
Diuis. 4. pag. 260. jam 5. 14. Lu. 9 c 2. Pag. 133.  his reason why the place off ●. Luke commanding the 12. disciples to preach/ can not be applied unto our Ministers, is for that other things joined with it were temporal. And this is his reason before/ that the example of the apostles elections is to be followed wholly, or not at all. Therefore the place of S. james/ did fully confute his answer: considering that the anointing of the sick coupled with prayer/ by the elders of the church/ being temporal: tother notwithstanding is perpetual. And this shift that that place was spoken off all ministers, and tother of SAINT Luke of the 12. only, will not cover his shame. For what will he say unto the rules given as the same time/ that they should be simple in their ministry as doves, wise as serpents, 
Math. 10. 16. 17.  take heed off men? are they not spoken to the ministers now/ because they were spoken then to the 12. only? What unto that our Saviour Christ commanded to go into all the world/ 
Math 28. ●●.  teaching/ and baptizing in the name off the Father/ Son/ and Holy Ghost? which place shaketh him out of both his rags: for that was spoken to the eleven apostles only/ and the commandment off going into all the world/ was temporal. Yet I think he dare not deny/ but the commandment off baptizing in the name of Father/ Son/ and holy Ghost/ is perpetual/ and belonging unto all Pastors. whereupon followeth that the place of S. Luke standeth still/ to whip out unpreaching Pastors. In the pag. 483. this is handled again. 
Diuis. 15.   
Where I allege that they be unchangeable laws 〈◊〉 God, that he should not be minister off the church which can not teach, nor Minister Sacraments which can not preach: the D. leaving the first which was the very cause/ shppeth to the second/ which is handled in an other Tract. as that wherein his provision was better. Howbeit because I would not the D. cause should lose her advantage by his oversight: I confess that Chrysostom's testimony/ may seem to pertain to the cause in hand/ forasmuch as he maketh a kind of priesthood not able to teach. To whom (with this exception that I will not be pressed with his authority/ further than he bringeth reason off the word of God) I answer that as the word priesthood/ is often times in ecclesiastical writers taken for the pastor/ and chief minister off the church/ off which our present question is: so sometime it is taken for the elders/ joined as helpers in government unto the pastor/ and which had not (as shall appear) to do doythe the preaching off the word/ and administration of the Sacraments. As when it is said/ that the Bishop chosen by God's ordinance, and the Elders joined with him in the priestly honour. 
Cypr. l. 3. Epist. 1.  According unto which sense/ Chrysostom's saying maketh nothing to this question. For we deny not/ but that he may be an elder/ and consequently (as they term him) a priest assistant to the pastor/ which is not able to preach: but that he may be the pastor/ we utterly deny. So remaineth only against us in Chrysost. testimony/ that he may baptise that can not preach: which with the rest pertaining to that head/ shall (god willing) be in their proper place answered. As for the 5. 1. Tim. touching the Elders which rule well/ in the treatise of the Presbytery it shall appear, that it is not understanded off these caterpillars. where he requireth warrant off the word of God, for that I confess the church may appoint for a reader only some grave man, he confessing it lawful as well as I: for answer to his request/ I refer him to that disputation where 
2. tract. according to the D. Divis. 16. pag. 484.  I have proved/ that it is not lawful to place any thing in the church/ not justified by the word.  
That the cause off this fewnes off able ministers, is partly the thrusting out off those which are fit to teach, partly that others fit are not sought after: it is manifest. Whether they ought to be sought after/ and not to offer themselves: I leave to be esteemed off that which is written in this point/ in the book entitled off the discipline, etc. Whether they be off right thrust out, I leave to be judged off the discourse of these controversies: whether they which are not yet entered/ have just cause to forbear/ I leave to be considered off the disputation before/ and of that of the archbishop/ Archedeacons'/ Commissaries/ etc. which followeth. For if it fall out that the calling be unlawful/ whereby the entrance should be made/ and the authority of the church tyrants such/ that being entered/ one can not walk in the way off his ministry prescribed off the lord: than it must follow/ that although those that are entered/ having testimony of their conscience that they serve the lord/ and keeping themselves from the pollutions/ may poursue their course: yet these can not without shipwreck of conscience (I speak off ordinary callings) even in the very port/ or ever they launch forth/ commit themselves to this voyage.  
Where he saith there want no provokinges to draw them to the ministry: even that is an other cause off this scarcity. for the church-livinge so unequally divided/ that some few being drunken/ the most hunger: discourage from that study. For the parent which followeth the sent off honour/ and gain in Archbishoprickes/ bishoprics/ and other such poisons off the ministry: is oftentimes beaten back by despair/ that they shall not attain to that gain/ which desired as they think off many/ can be obtained but of few. He that is willing his son should serve in the estate of a Minister/ and looketh with a more single eye/ to the continuence off true religion unto his posterity: yet when he considereth how few livings there be (those excepted wherewith he will not have his son defiled) able to maintain the pastor with his competent howsehold/ honestly/ he applieth him to an other trade of life. whereof although occasion be given by horrible unthankfulness of men/ which in steed off giving some thing into the treasury of the church/ have by their pillage brought her almost to stark beggary: yet that parent should consider/ that the lord will never leave/ nor forsake his/ and that 
Heb. 13. 5. Agg. 2. 9  gold and silver is the Lords. Which seeing he fournished to those/ that in symplicity sought the building off his house/ out off the cofres off heathen Princes: he will much less suffer them to want necessaries under godly/ and Christian. But this place is plentifully handled in the foresaid book of discipline. I only (because the question was here off the cause off w●nting sufficient pastors) touched it.  
Hear the D. light estimation of the church's salvation/ 
Divis. 17. Pag. 484.  and off preaching is notably discovered. before he said/ that these reading pastors were taken for necessity: now he teacheth/ that ●f there were sufficient pastors to supply the rooms/ yet the readers should keep their places still If ye ask why: jest forsooth they with their families should go a begging. Hear a whole church is sold for 30 pieces of silver/ or rather as I may say/ for old shoes. For the D. weighing in his skiles/ whether it is better that the church should want a preaching pastor/ whom God hath ordained the principal instrument to save his church by/ or that the reader with his family should go a begging: hath found the sowlehealth of a whole church/ far lighter than the bodily commodity of one reader with his family. Where he saith/ it seemeth that I would have the minister renant at will/ or by courtesy: it is an untrue surmise. For I complain that these reading Ministers/ were not only placed until other might be gotten: but had a free hold/ whereby the sheep are not only committed to the wolf/ but the door sparred also upon them.  
Where he asketh for the place, in which Augustine calleth them wolves that teach not: if he have not the word woulf, yet he speaketh 
Lib. de Past.  to that effect/ when upon the place of Ezechiel I have given the a watchman, etc. he proveth that he which holdeth his peace/ murdereth. Which also even the Pope himself/ as long as there was but a sparcke of true knowledge/ confesseth. If the D. 
Greg. Epist. 1. 33.  say/ that his men hold not their peace, because they read: it is a cavil unworthy answer. As though when the Prophet calleth the rascal ministers off his time/ domme dogs, and such as could not 
Esay. 56. 10.  not bark, his meaning were to charge them that they could not spell/ or read in a book of their own language laid before them. And so I trust appeareth/ that this tail off reading ministers ought to be cut of: and that they are none of these princely gifts/ which our Saviour Christ ascended into heaven/ sendeth 
4. Eph. 11  unto his church/ but the bishops (to speak no grievous liar of them) more than beggarly presents. But we are not yet at an end. For that which the D. can not get/ in comparing a preaching pastor with a keading: he thinketh to obtain in comparing reading with preaching/ whereunto perremeth his 13 Tract.  
First he maintaineth his untrue accusation of the Adm. to 
Diuis. 1. pag. 568.  wching their condemning off reading off scriptures. Which in comparing the words alleged by the D. with those of the Ad. in old time the word was preached, now it is supposed sufficient though it be red: I commit unto the reader's judgement. And if his unhonest realing were not evident there/ because off an other sentence off the Adm. subject unto reprehension: yet he layeth it open in the same behaviour to wards me. For although I have not a word against reading/ and divers commendations of it: yet 
pag. 717.  he feareth not with full throat to accuse me/ as a despiser of reading off the scriptures, as companion off the Papists ungodliness in that behalf. Which although he do often/ yet further than his reasons give occasion: he shall never gain of me/ that I will vouchsafe him a word off answer/ to all this owtcries. After upon that I say/ if I may call him minister that can do nothing but read (which is as indifferent to give him the name off a minister/ as to take it from him/ being left between both) the D. according to his old equity/ concludeth that I signify and that plainly, how I esteem them for no ministers. Which he likewise gathereth/ for that I say as they call them. Wherein I will not deny but there may be occasion given/ to him especially that hunteth after it/ off that surmise. But my meaning was/ to note how unworthy they are/ as of the office/ so off the name off a Minister off the gospel: not to make void their ministry such as it is/ in administration of the Sacraments. which I confess as in the Popish priests baptism/ for that they be the public officers appointed thereunto/ unless unduly ministered/ to be the holy Sacraments of Christ. And that this was my meaning might easily have been gathered/ in that I allowing off the administration of Sacraments by Heretics/ so much worse than they/ as as it is to teach falsely than not to teach at all: could by no equal interpretation/ be judged to condemn the Sacraments ministered by them.  
Where I say that albeit the D. cause in this point be 
Divis. 2. Pag. 969.  good, that the reading off the scriptures is profitable: yet as one be pitched, he defileth it in evil handling: he answereth as though I confessed/ that I misliked the matter well handled, only for that it was done by him: which is a shameless untruth. Bucers' sentence 
Diuis. 3. pag. 569.  (reading is a kind of preaching) I think will not be found: and I dowbt not but the D. would have brought it/ if there had been any. So he is destitute of his good authority, and withal remaineth the absurdity/ before assigned. The sentence set down out of Bucer is altogether idle: seeing the profit off reading the scriptures/ both publicly/ and privately is confessed. Where to prove that reading is not so effectual as preaching, I allege S. Paul/ that one can not believe without a preacher: he answereth 
Rom. 10. 14.  that by preaching there is meant all kind of publishing the gospel by outward voice. but of reason off this exposition/ either out of scripture/ or any other/ more than his own I say, he bringeth not a letter. For that he addeth/ off taking away by this means from the majesty of the scriptures, and making them d●●●e, etc. (amplified in the next divis. by ask why the scriptures were then written? with other such too too idle questions/ which I am ashamed to defile my pen with) is unworthy the name of a reason. As if in that reading maketh men fit to hear the word preached/ and to seek after it/ in that it helpeth to nourish faith engrended/ in that it confirmeth a man in the doctrine preached/ when by reading he perceiveth it to be as the preacher taught/ in that it reneweth the memory off that was preached/ which otherwise would decay: I say as if in these respects/ and such like/ the profit off reading/ and committing the word to writing/ were not singular/ and inestimable, beside that it is not denied/ but the Lord may extraordinarily give faith by reading only: although the order which God hath put/ is to save by foolishness (as it is esteemed) of preaching. 
1. Cor. 1. 21.  beside also that it is absurd/ that the D. asketh why else the gospel should be writer? as if there were no other cause of writing off it/ then that it should be simply red: or as though the principal cause was not▪ that it should be preached.  
But to return to the D. exposition: First it overthroweth the argument of the Apostle. For the jews offended that he/ and other preached to the Gentiles: proving first that the invocation of the name of God pertaineth unto them/ he concludeth thereupon/ that preaching unto them was lawful: considering that they could not otherwise come to call upon the name of God, where by the D. exposition/ the jews might have excepted/ that his ministry towards them was not thereby justified: forasmuch as they might come to invocation by reading only/ without his/ and other's ministry off preaching. Furthermore/ the Apostle S. Paul affirming in plain words/ that the preaching he speaketh 
Rom. 10. 15.  off/ can not be made but by him which is sent: it is first manifest/ that reading privately is clean shut out/ from being contained under this preaching. For faith coming only by that preaching/ and that preaching only lawful by the sending of God/ and public calling: it followeth/ that except he will say/ that the scripture may not be red privately/ unless a man be publicly called thereunto/ that both private reading of the scripture/ can no be contained under the Apostles word of preaching/ and that faith (unless by extraordinary work of God) can not be engendered by private reading. Forasmuch as it is engendered only by that preaching/ under which private reading is not contained. And so goeth to the ground one piece of the D. assertion.  
Now if private reading only/ can not ordinarily engender faith: I would know how public reading only/ can do it. Beside that/ when public reading may be by a simple reader/ which hath no other charge in the church/ and of whom this solemn fending can not be understanded: it followeth/ that faith can not by public reading only be engendered. Forasmuch as he being none of those sent his reading can not be that preaching/ by which faith is engendered. I say that a reader only can not be off those sent the Apostle speaketh off/ not only because he hath regard unto the ministries of the word/ appointed by God: but also for that the place of Esaie/ out of which he proveth that faith cometh not but by preaching/ will by no means suffer to carry the word preacher unto a simple reader. For beside that it were frivolous/ to refer the lifting up of the voice off those preachers 
Esa. 52 8.  whereunto the Prophet exhorteth/ unto a loud reading/ which is understanded of earnestness/ and diligence in preaching: that voice he speaketh off/ is the voice off the church's watchmen▪ which title when it can not agreed unto a simple reader/ that hath no further charge then to read in a book/ according to the prescript of others: it is manifest/ that a simple reader can not be contained under S. Paul's preacher/ seeing he can not be contained under Esaies'/ which is the same with S. Paul's. For when the title of watchman, draweth a continual care/ and circumspection over those he watcheth: and the reader for any thing his office requireth/ may occupy himself in any worldly business/ saving only the time of his reading: it is clear that he is no church watchman.  
Nay the reading ministers/ which have charge off souls committed unto them/ can be none of this order of watchman: seeing they can not only not see the enemy a far of/ but not hard by/ much les descry him: it pertaining to an instructed pastor/ which according to the circumstance of the invasion/ knoweth to apply his watch word. Now seeing simple reading/ neither private/ nor public can be contained under the preaching S. Paul speaketh off Rom. 10. (which is an interpretation/ and laying open the scriptures by a public minister/ apt/ and authorised thereunto): it followeth/ that faith which the Apostle teacheth no otherwise to come/ but by that preaching/ cometh not ordinarily by simple reading. I omit here/ that the Apostle useth to express 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  this preaching/ both by crying and telling good news: whereof when it can not be showed out of scripture/ or (as I am persuaded) out of any other author/ that either of them/ much les both together/ is used for simple reading: it followeth that simple reading can not be understanded/ by the word preaching.  
To prove that bore reading engendereth faith/ he citeth 
Diuis. 4. 570.  john 5. repeated pag. 574. 2. Timo. 3.. whereto pertain Math. 7. Act. 17. 1. john 4. Gal. 1. disorderly placed pag. 717. but to no purpose. For when our Saviour biddeth the jews search the scriptures: he referreth them by that search/ to judge off the doctrine he had preached before: which proveth no fruit of reading/ when there is no preaching. beside that/ it will be hard for him to refer the word search/ to reading only: as if one could not search the scriptures/ when he attendeth to them alleged in sermons. yea he is confuted/ by the place himself hath alleged: Where he would prove that the scripture red/ in respect off making the hearers more apt to discern off preaching/ is better than preached. for when the Apostle teacheth the Galatians to hold them accursed/ which preach other doctrine than they had received by his preaching: he doth flatly make his preaching/ 
1. Gal. 8. 9  the rule to examine other preachings by. The place of Tim. being (as I have showed) of the proper duties of the minister off the word in preaching/ making no manner of mention of reading/ is alleged without all judgement. Hither refer Bucers' Testimony in his former division/ which maketh for that set down in this. For Bucer setting himself to commend reading in the church/ saith twice/ bore, or only reading, confirmeth in the knowledge of the Doctrine: which necessarily presupposeth a knowledge foreplaced/ or ever it can be confirmed by reading only. Where as if he might/ it is to be thowght he would have said that it engendereth knowledge of the doctrine of salvation.  
Where I alleged that the consideration of the creatures may nourish faith, not able yet to breed it: he answereth/ then let us have images that they may be lay men's books. Which beside the comen fault of being nothing worth/ is a wicked/ and popish answer. For if I had made the consideration of the creatures equal unto reading off the scriptures in that teinement of salvation/ as I compared them only in that both nourishing faith/ neither could ordinarily breed it: had it been lawful therefore for him to match instruction by images/ with that which cometh by beholding the creatures? is there either the same/ or like proportion between the school of Imagery/ and of the creation of the world? are these books of the same print? the one coming from the lords press/ the other out of the devils printing house: the one giving a good report off the Lord/ and 
a Psa. 191.  setting out his glory/ the other 
b 1. Ro. 23  dishonouring him: the one 
c 1. Ro. 18  teaching the truth/ the other being 
d jere. 10. 14 Abac. 2. 18.  Doctors of lies/ and vanity: finally the one being 
e job. 12. 6. 7. 8. Mat. 6. 26  commanded/ the other 
f Io. 1. 5. 21  forbidden? But thus must the judgement of God be fulfilled/ against the enemies of his truth: in closing up their eyes/ which seeing will not perceive. The like blindness it is/ that he accounteth an image a visable creature, making thereby a carpentour/ a creator. In granting that preaching is the most ordinary mean to work salvation by/ his opinion shaketh: a token that it will fall flat in the end. For if it be the most ordinary/ and the most ordinary ordinarily most effectual: than it is untrue he saith/ that the word simply red, is as effectual as preached.  
Where upon lifting up off our Saviour (as Moses lift up the serpent (following Caluins' interpretation/ which expoundeth 
Diuis. 5▪ pag. 571. joh. 3 14.  it off the preaching off the gospel) I showed that the word preached being lifted up higher than when it is red/ is easilier seen of the eye of faith: this trifler frameth first my reason of the ●●. ver. whereof I make not a letter mention. Secondly bringeth an other interpretation of the place I allege: but answereth not Caluins' reasons/ who confuteth it. Thirdly/ he saith that although the interpretation be granted/ which I followed: yet the cause is not proved thereby/ for that Christ is lifted up by simple readinng▪ which is no sufficient answer/ unless he had added/ that it is lifted up as high. For when I affirm the word set in a low place/ I mean not that all reading simply/ and in itself considered/ is on the ground: but in comparison off that when it is expounded by preaching. And if preaching do make it better understanded/ and easilier seen than when it is red only (which 
Divis. ●. Pag. 172.  at unawares he manifestly confesseth: than it is true which I have set down/ that preaching in respect off reading, doth as it were set the word in a more sightly, and therefore higher place. As for Caluins' interpretation which I followed/ because it is dowbtfull/ and the conference of an other place seemeth rather to confirm Augustine's/ who referreth it to the cross off 
john 12. 32.  our Sau. Christ: to spar out the D. from his out courses/ let him follow that he bringeth/ I will not strive, especially seeing the same sense off lifting up our Saviour by preaching/ appeareth otherwise: where by it he is said/ to be crucified before our eyes. 
Gal. 3. 1.   
Unto that I allege off the savour off the word, sweeter, and more nourishable when it is brayed, and cut, then when 
Divis 6. pag. 572.  it is by reading given as it were whole, and in gross: touching the first/ he asketh whether the word red is not a sweet savour, in steed that he should have said/ as sweet/ which he durst not. In the second/ whether there be no discretion required in reading? yes/ but 
2. Cor. 2. 16. 2. Tim. 2. 15.  more in preaching. Although thus he toucheth not the matter. for unto the point of breaking/ and cutting off the scripture/ done by preaching which applieth the general doctrine to the particular circumstance/ wherein it is like unto aromatic spices/ sweeter broken then whole/ and unto wholesome meat/ apt to nourish when it is chewed/ or cut/ then when it is not: he answereth nothing. For as things aromatiquall/ and meats both broken/ and whole/ have the same savour/ and virtue off nourishing in regard off themselves/ yet in regard of us are sweeter/ and more nourishable broken etc.: so the word of God/ off the same virtue in it self both red/ and preached/ is unto us more profitable preached/ then red. whereunto pertaineth that Saint Luke calleth the interpretation of the scriptures/ an opening of them: which in the second edition/ because it was lo figurative than the comparison off aromatic things (that being a metonimy of the preacher for preaching) I put in the place thereof. for if interpretation of the scriptures be the opening of them/ as Saint Luke declareth calling it opening in one verse/ which 
24. 27. 32.  he called interpreting in an other: it followeth that the word red/ in respect off being preached/ is as it were shut/ and clasped. for this cause are the ministers off the word/ said to have 
Math. 16. 19  the keys of the kingdom of heaven: for that without their ministry off preaching/ the kingdom of heaven is as it were locked.  
Where he asketh whether I think the praise of preaching, the dispraise of reading: all understand that it is easter to strike water out of a flint/ then to find honest dealing in this man. For is this to dispraise reading/ to prefer preaching before it? In commending preaching before praying/ and private meditation of scripture more than private reading/ and practising more than both: do I dispraise private reading/ or meditation? and yet the word of God is the same red/ meditated/ and practised. But this is a Popish practice: which upon that we prefer faith to good works/ concludeth that we make no account off good works.  
Where upon that preaching is called both planting/ and watering 
Diuis. 7. pa 722. 1. Cor 3. 6  it is showed that as the howsbandman receiveth not fruit, unless both be done, so no salvation to be looked for, where is no preaching: he answereth that there is showed how the word of God is not effectual, unless God give increase: which is to no purpose. For he not only showeth that/ but that God giveth his increase through their preaching: and that they be the howsbandes by whose preaching the Lord maketh his orcheyard. He answereth further/ that in this place there is no comparison between reading and preaching: but considereth not how the scripture giveth this/ as also those before cited/ unto simple reading/ thereby singulary exalting preaching above bore reading. So that although some of these in some degree/ or all extraordinarily may be done by bore reading: yet by these commendations/ as it were by a more precious apparel/ is advanced the grace of God/ more richly rached unto us by the hand off preaching/ then reading. Last of all he answereth/ that tilling, and watering may be applied also unto diligent reading: where not daring (as it seemeth) say planting, he hath changed it wheroff the question was for tilling: belike because he remembered he had said before/ that it is proper unto the Apostles to plant. Where again his cause receiveth an other wound. For if planting be by preaching/ and not by reading: then in this respect/ preaching is more effectual than bore reading. Then that he saith kill/ and watering may be applied to reading: he should to maintain his cause have said/ as well/ or as much.  
To that off the people perishing without prophecy, 
Pou. 29. 18.  which is not bore reading, but expounding, and applying off scriptures: he answereth that the people must needs decay in holiness, and knowledge where there be no preachers. but why doth he say decay, and not perish as Solomon speaketh? where his cause falleth flat to the ground. For if the people perish/ where be no preachers/ unless there be readers/ and contrariwise preaching without bore reading/ saveth/ engendereth faith/ and nourisheth it: it is manifest that the word red is not so effectual as preached/ and that by bore reading ordinarily/ there is no salvation/ and therefore also no faith/ both which he before denied. And if the people perish without preaching/ which have already been lightened by it. how much more (except the Lord work extraordinarily) must they perish/ that never had preaching?  
Where he saith/ both preaching, and bore reading be necessary in the church: if he mean publicly/ as it is true in preaching/ so it is untrue in simple reading. For although it be very convenient which is used in some churches/ where before preaching time the church assembled hath the scriptures red/ in such order that the whole Canon thereof is oftentimes in one year run through: yet a number of churches which have no such order of simple reading/ can not be in this point charged with breach of God's commandment: which they might be/ if simple reading were necessary. Considering especially that some of them beside their set sermons/ expounding every day paraphrastically two chapters/ with the principal points thereof taken/ and applied unto their auditors: gain that which the D. out of Bucer/ presupposeth to come only by simple reading/ that the scripture thereby is made familiar unto the people. Where he saith they be most profitable: the wine of this error so fumeth into his head/ that it hath taken away the use off his tongue. for two things to one and the same end/ can not (but very unproperly) be said most profitable. For if preaching be moste profitable to work faith by/ then is not reading: if reading/ then is not preaching. it is true that men sometime speak so) when the question is not of comparison between those things they speak off: but otherwise/ it is altogether strange.  
Where he saith preaching is more apt for the ignorant, and unlearned, and that he denieth not this: the untruth thereof is apparent. For if preaching be more profitable to the unlearned then reading/ and de at lest as profitable to the learned: than it is false that he hath set down with so great assurance/ that reading is as effectual as preaching: seeing the effect we speak off/ is the profit off the hearers. Yet as a man strawght of his wits striketh himself: he overthroweth this also in an other place. for in ask why josia caused the law to be red▪ except it had as great force to 
pag. 577.  persuade red as preached: he signifieth the contrary off that here affirmed. Considering that the greatest part was off the comen people/ and that gross: as those which newly came out off filthy idolatry. Further if preaching were as meet for the learned/ and meeter for the rude: then his reason there/ which imagineth that josia would not otherwise have caused the law to be red/ unless there had been as great fruit in reading as preaching/ falleth flat. Considering that the D. confesseth/ that preaching is more effectual to the people: and I think dare not deny/ but it is as effectual to the learned. Therefore the reason why josias caused the law to be red/ was not because reading was as effectual as preaching: but because being both red and preached/ it profiteth more than when it is simply red.  
Where he saith marry have been called by bore reading: he saith it again and again/ but without all proof. For where (altogether out of place/ his purpose being to prove that reading edifieth more than preaching) he faith God used reading at a means to call Augustine: it is vain/ seeing the question is/ whether he used that only means, for it appeareth that August. had greatly profited in godliness/ before that time wherein he heard the miraculous voice/ which sent him to reading. Beside that/ the voice he telleth off going before his reading/ will not suffer that that reading only/ may challenge the whole means off conversion. Likewise that he affirmeth out M. For/ off many brought to light 
pag. 576.  off the gospel by reading only: he maketh not/ nor (as I am persuaded) could make it appear. Although it be confessed/ that that may be done by the Lords extraordinary working/ which feedeth sometime with quarles in the wilderness. Yet it is hard to show any time/ wherein there have been professors of the gospel/ and God hath not raised up some ministers/ which have either openly/ or secretly as the time required/ preached the word: considering that even in those desolations of the church/ the Lord 
Apoc. 11. 3.  by his two witnesses promiseth/ that the church shall not be destitute off true ministers.  
Where confessing the word preached and read all one, I 
Divis. 8. Pag. 573.  show notwithstanding that as the fire stirred giveth more heat, so the word as it were blown by preaching, flameth more in the hearers, then when it is red: he answereth that this is to joan with the Papists in condemning the scriptures of obscurity. but reason he can show none: and it is all one/ as if one should be charged to have said that the Son is dark/ for that he affirmeth it lighter at noon days then at the Son rising. Then he must understand/ that we place not this difference of lightsomeness in the word/ which is always in itself most lightsome/ red and preached: but partly in the ordinance of God before noted/ making that the special means/ partly in the darkness of our understanding/ which without the aid off preaching can not come to sufficient knowledge of it. lastly he must learn/ that although all things necessary to salvation/ might by reading only be understanded: yet it followeth not/ that a man may by reading only be saved. For it is one thing to have the scripture in his head/ another to have it in his heart: one thing to understand it/ another to believe it/ which belief being only able to save/ is ordinarily only engendered by preaching. 
Heb. 11. 6. Ro. 10. 14   
Whereby also we have a piece of remedy/ against another poison spit forth in this divis. that to those which understand the scriptures they are as hot, and lightsome read as preached. For where in his former assertion although not in words/ yet in deed he utterly condemned the wisdom of God/ ordaining pastors/ and Doctors for continual functions in the church/ of whom there is no use/ if simple reading be as effectual as preaching: that being wrung out of his hands/ in that he is compelled to confess greater efficacy of preaching towards the unlearned: yet rather than all this cobweb should be unweaved/ he maketh the ministry off preaching void towards the learned. Whereas the scripture doth not only generally/ but particularly/ and expressly shut up the salvation of the learned in the means off preaching/ as 
Ro. 10. 14 ●. Cor. 21. Ro. 1. 14.  of the unlearned. But this is a piece of the doctoral divinity of some in Camebridge/ which to excuse their shameful contempt of preaching/ and to make them a pillow to sleep on/ or to pane them an alley to bowl in during sermons in the afternoon: shame not to allege/ that they can profit as much in reading the scriptures/ or an homily out of chrysostom in their study/ as by hearing a sermon in the church.  
Unto the example of the Eumuche, which reading the scripture believed not until he heard Philip preach, he answereth that he understood it not, and that he speaketh off an understanding reader. Which although it be untrue/ the words of his former book being general/ without so much as the lest signification of exception: yet it is nothing worth. For the cause why he could not understand it is there assigned/ for that he had no teacher 
Act 8. vers. 31.  to show him the way. Whereby followeth not (which the Papists conclude off this place) that the people ought not to read the scriptures: seeing the Eunuch which both knew/ and confessed that he could not understand without a guide/ exercised himself diligently in reading of them. but this followeth/ that a man can not ordinarily not only come to salvation/ but not so much as to a sufficient knowledge of it/ without preaching. Where of infinite examples he saith one is as few as may be: it appeareth this one was to much for him to answer.  
Now for all the false accusations/ off joining with papists in despising off reading the scripture, etc. once hear your one process/ that it is you that strength than their hands. For as in popery/ by committing the office off preaching especially unto the beggarly friars/ and by declaring it more honourable for the bishop to read a mass/ then to preach a sermon/ they set reading in the head/ and preaching in the tail: so you making simple reading as profitable as preaching/ hasten after them/ and if you keep the same pace you have begun/ it will not be long or ever you overtake them.  
The D. having before made simple readers equal with preaching 
Diuis. 9 pag. 574.  pastors/ in that he holdeth simple reading/ as effectual as preaching: here in making bore reading better than preaching/ preferreth the readers above the preachers. But in this later absurdity/ first as before he would make Musculus his packhorse/ and therefore brawleth because I laid it not upon Musc. so princely is the D. that he would have his faults whipped upon an other man's skin. but at lest I should have divided it between them. As if I were matched with Musculus. but the truth is/ that he maketh not for him. For he compareth the profit taken of simple reading/ and of a sermon made of him which endeavoureth to make a glorious show of eloquence/ and learning rather than to apply himself to the capacity of the simple: which is nothing to that in hand/ where good reading is compared with good preaching. And therefore it is ridiculous the D. bringeth of bitter invectives, and contentious sermons, etc. compared with orderly reading. For in this comparison/ it were not hard to prove (which is blasphemy) that it is better to read a piece of Livy/ then the books of the kings: namely if Livy be simply read/ and the other with interlining/ and mixture off popish interpretation. If one defending this would for maintenance of his comparison bring this escape: would not all men hiss at him? this is his refuge also 
Pag. 717.  to salve that he said/ off homilies read better than sermons preached.  
His other instance of a papist carrying prejudice against all preachers, and therefore not moved once by their doctrine, in which notwithstanding after by reading he is established, is insufficient. for if the Lord by his virtue showed through preaching/ do convert men uttenly perverted/ and at enmity with all truth/ and consequently with 
Ephes. 2.  the ministers thereof: how much more will he thereby convert papists? which by doubting whether the gospel be truth/ or their superstitions have ground/ or no/ carry not that enmyty the other do/ which have no such entrance. Then you must understand/ that as in the Sacraments the Lord doth not always at the same time they are ministered/ work by his spirit/ but chooseth the time that seemeth good to his wisdom: so it is in preaching. whereby it cometh to pass/ that the spirit of God working faith at the time of reading/ wrought it not by that means only: but used thereunto the help off preaching/ which went before. For as green wood laid upon fire/ and her with many strong blasts/ as last set on fire/ and flaming with one/ and that a soft blast/ is not to be be said chief set on fire with the soft blast/ because it went immediately before: even so the word of God blown by preaching/ and after sensibly burning in the hearres of the hearers/ by the means off reading immediately gone before/ is not so much to be ascribed unto reading/ as preaching. Considering that so it might come to pass (which is absurd) that contemplation of the creatures/ should profit more than reading. For whereas the Lord hath seth the print off the most of his promises/ and other 
Math. 6. 16. etc.  doctrines in the creatures: for example/ off his fatherly care of providing all things necessary for his/ in the provision for birds of the air/ and rich array off the lilies of the field: it may come to pass/ that that doctrine known by means off preaching/ and lying as it were dead in the heart/ may after by sight/ and earnest view off the things themselves/ be quickened. yet none of judgement will say/ that the beholding off the creatures wrrowght more in this/ then preaching. Howbeit if the cases he putteth in this point were true: yet he is inexcusable/ these plasters coming a ye are and a half/ after the wound given by such strange speech: which ought to have gone with it/ if peradventure they might although not heal/ yet somewhat hide the loathsome rawness.  
Hitherto pertaineth that which he hath disorderly put pag. 176. where he saith/ that the reading of Saint Paul's epistles did the Romans more good, than preaching: which is contrary to S. Paul's meaning/ 
1. Ro. 1●.  who showeth/ that he could not have the like fruice off his ministry towards them/ as of other nations/ because he was letted to come/ and preach unto them. His proofs coming a mile after/ be first that a man's meaning is commonly better expressed by writing, then by word. Which beside that it is confuted by commensense/ all men knowing that there is more certain understanding by word of mouth/ then by letters (which if any doubt arise in any word/ can say nothing to the resolving of it) as it is alleged/ it can not tend but to utter subversion of the lords order/ and to prove that commonly, and for the most part/ it is better to have reading/ then preaching. The other is that writing remaineth: as if the question were wether canonical writing off the scriptures/ were better than preaching: and not whether there be more fruit in bore reading that which is written/ then preaching upon it.  
In this chap. which supposeth reading preaching, beside strange 
Divis. ●. pag. 575.  asseverations/ and begging of that in controversy: there is nothing/ saving that as absurdities are fruitful/ this beggetteth other. for pressed he shameth not to say/ that a child off 4. year old, is a preacher of the gospel. And why not also a popeniay/ taught to pronounce some sentences of scripture? for the D. reason (because preaching 10 Rom. 14 is all publishing off the gospel by external voice) 
569.  serveth for one/ as for the other. And beside that it is frivolous that off that God speaketh to us by reading/ he would conclude that he preacheth to us/ as though all speaking were preaching: it is absurd that he saith/ the scriptures are not preached in respect of him that readeth, but in respect of the spirit of God working in the hearers. For if reading were preaching/ it should be preaching although it wrowght to condemnation: whereas by the D. all which hearing the word preached/ profit not/ are not preached unto. Which as it 
2. Cor. 2: 15. Heb. 4. 12 Diuis. 2. pag. 576. 1. Tim 32  is a gross error: so it is a shameful derogation to the ministry of the word/ working mightily not only to the salvation of the elect/ but also through their fault/ to destruction of the reprobate.  
To the places proving that it is necessarily required in a minister/ that he should not only be sufficiently learned/ but have 
Is. 50. 4.  also the gift of utterance: he answereth not. touching that the priests lips should keep knowledge/ and not his papers: he 
Malach. 2. 7.  answereth that he shall have it readier in his lips, if he have it in his papers: which is not to purpose/ seeing we spoke off those which have it only in papers. Then he hath a childish cavil/ that if he read he must use his lips: as if the Prophet contented himself if the priests were able to read only/ and did not note thereby the aptness to teach/ as by uncircumcised lips/ is noted heaviness/ 
Exod 6. 12.  or unreadiness of speech. That a Preacher able for utterance, and learning to preach, may read a sermon, if he mean privately/ is not in question: if publicly/ it belongeth to the question off Homilies. His case off a man pronouncing an other man's sermon without book/ beside the fondness is from the cause. That the reading of Jeremy'S, and Baruches books was preaching, because the books were sermons: is to dream/ and not to dispute.  
The 15. 16. verses Rom. 15. make nothing to prove reading preaching: but make rather against him/ in that the Apostle showing 
Diuis. 3. pag. 576. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  that his writing to them was ground off Gods calling/ sought a more general word/ off working for the gospel: which agreeth to any action the minister doth by reason off his ministry/ either in ministering the Sacraments/ or otherwise. The difference Saint Paul putteth between his preaching/ is apparent 
1. Ro. 15.  although the D. hath lost his sight. That S. Paul meant he could not personally preach unto them, is his addition/ corrupting the mind off the Apostle. For where showing that he had great desire to be personally with them (form spirit he was not absent) he addeth for a cause that he might preach: the D. by this answer/ drowneth the effect in the cause/ and so maketh the Apostle assign causes/ which cause nothing/ nor have any thing to be referred unto. Where I show that S. Paul writing, is no more preaching then his hand, or pen he written with be his tongue, lights, or other instruments he spoke with: he answereth not/ for that as he saith it is a jest. Where if his cause could speak/ it would complain that he maketh no more account of it/ then to esteem her head stroked/ when it is cracked a sunder. for the reason is of the efficient cause/ seeing they can not be the same/ which can not be made by the same instruments.  
To maintain his ridiculous demand (was not reading off 
Diuis. 4. pa 577.  Deut. preaching) he should have showed/ that the reading of it is rather preaching/ then reading off Exodus: which he doth not. Howbeit he concludeth/ that the reading thereof was preaching/ because the Lord commanded that the priests should read it, that the people might learn to fear God: which is as ridiculous. For so peinting/ and graving off the scriptures is preaching/ and peinters and gravers (which sometimes know never a letter of the book) shall be come preachers. Considering that the Lord commanded/ 
Deut 27. 2. 3. & 6. 9 & 11. 20. 21.  that the law should be graven in the entrance of their land/ and written upon their city gates/ and houses: to this end that the people might learn to fear God/ etc. After he asketh/ why josia should cause the law to be red, if reading had not been off at great force to persuade as preaching: which frenzy belonging to another question/ is answered before. Where he concludeth/ that for that reading 
Diuis. 4. pag. 570.  is as effectual as preaching, therefore it is preaching: beside the falsehood of the antecedent/ the conclusion is too bad. for if the rain be as effectual to cause the fruits grow/ as the son/ and meat as effectual to preserve the life/ as drink: it followeth not therefore that the rain is the son/ or meat drink.  
Where upon Nehem. 8. he would prove reading preaching: 
vers. 3. 4.  there is not a word whereon it may be gathered/ but contrariwise they are manifestly distinguished in that chap. For beside reading there mentioned/ he setteth forth preaching by all these words/ that the Levites cawsed the people to understand the la, gave the sense off the la, cawsed them to understand the reading. And where pag. 91. he saith/ that the words translated off some they gave the sense, signify nothing less than that there was any exposition 
8. Nehen 7. 8.  joined with reading, bearing himself upon learners interpreters: seeing he seeth no further into this/ then with other men's eyes/ why should not he have followed the judgement of the Geneva translation/ which he pincheth? they being learned men/ and more in number then as (I think) he can allege. Which I say not to justify that translation throughout/ or to shut up the way 'gainst a better: but because it seemeth an unworthy thing/ to refuse their judgement upon bore authority. I have none of his learned men to look their judgements/ howbeit for that I find one of the hebrews so expounding the words: I will not deny but some other deceived by him/ might fall into that error. Unto whom although I could oppose an other/ flatly expounding these verses off reading joined with exposition/ the exposition of the former not shutting out preaching: yet I had rather my confutation stand of reason/ then authority. Which is that the holy ghost showing in the 7. verse/ that the Levites made the people understand the law/ in the 8. showeth how they did it. for (saith he) they red in the book of the la distinctly, and in giving the sense, caused them to understand the reading Whereas those words which are turned (giving the sense) can not 〈◊〉 without a gap/ be carried to the people's attentive hearing: considering that it is spoken in that verse of the Levites/ without resuming off the people either expressly naming them/ or obscurely by any article. Which hard translations when an other sense doth well agreed to the suit off the text/ be by all means to be avoided. That these words (the Levites cawsed the people understand the la) be nothing else but they made them give diligent ear unto the reading: it is violent. For beside that it is against the general rule/ not to run to a figurative speech/ when the simple will (which the D. can not deny) agreed with the residue of the text: especially when both this/ and the other interpretation (they 
Luk. 4. 17 etc. Act. 13. 15 & 15. 21. vers. 12.  gave the sense) are confirmed by the practice off the church: it is unconfirmed by any conference of scripture/ or circumstance of place: confuted also by that this word is expounded by an other/ they made them know the la. Where the scripture speaking off one thing diversly/ if it speak figuratively in one word/ useth to speak properly in an other.  
Where both by the words and practice of the church in other places/ I showed the place off the Acts to be understanded 
Divis. 5. Page 577. Act. 15. 21  off reading, and preaching jointly: the D. not answering the reason/ saith that the place is evidently for him, which is a begging off that in question: that he can read no interpreter which interpreteth it otherwise, no one being brought which followeth that sense: that the circumstance of the place maketh for him, because Saint james useth for a reason, to prove that the jewish ceremonies could not be forthwith abolished, that Moses had by reading of the law every Sabbath so great authority: which is manifestly against him. for it maketh more for the confirmation of S. james sentence that he was both red/ and preached every sabbath/ then if he had been only red: considering that his authority was so much the deeper settled in the hearts of the jews.  
Hitherto pertaineth that in the end off his book/ where he trifleth for that the Adm. expoundeth (reading is not feeding) 
Pag. 784.  by this it is bore feeding: which is unworthy answer/ considering it is received in all tongues/ often to deny that to be done/ 
in diu. 10. pag. 243.  which is done insufficiently/ as is before noted. That also he saith there/ repeated p. 718. of dissent with myself, for that saying there that bore reading without a miracle can not save from famishement, I say in an other place that the word of God is easy, giving understanding to idiots, is frivolous. Considering that I spoke off reading/ not utterly separate from preaching. If it be easy and give understanding by preaching/ and reading together/ although not so by reading only: that standeth which I have set down. That he exclaimeth off that sentence/ as Papistical, etc. I have showed how it is catholic/ and his Papistical that maketh so easy a way to salvation without preaching. it is well with us/ and the scriptures keep their honour/ if they bring to the elect salvation/ used/ and applied as the order which the lord hath set/ requireth. unless peradventure he will say the holy Sacraments lose their honour/ when it is said they are not effectual to salvation/ without men be instructed by preaching before they be partakers of them.  
Having showed that bore reading off scriptures/ can not make unpreaching ministers occupy any place in the church: remaineth yet the reading of Homilies/ with the Apocrypha: in which cover is sought for them against the sentence of condemnation/ and storm of the Lords wrathful judgement/ which will follow if they repent not speedily. for where these dry nurses have no milk of their own: the D. will have them yet give suck/ although of the becastes of others. But this kind of milk having taken wind/ shall appear not to be so fit to nourish/ as that it may come into the church for a supply of sermon. it is enough if as for support off the nurse/ sometimes other than hers be taken: so to spare the pastor hardly able every day to preach/ the godly Christian strengthen himself with them at home. In which treatise first cometh the D. reason (Augustin, and chrysostom preached sermons in their 
Pag. 297.  churches, therefore we may read sermons in ours.) The absurdity whereof jest it should be hidden/ he hath made a great deal bigger. for charged with it he answereth/ that the committing them by writing unto posterity, argueth that they thought them very profitable unto the church. so that his argument is/ they are profitable/ therefore they may be read publicly in the church. As if there were no profit reaped by reading them privately: or as if all things profitable for the church/ may be read openly in it. where are brought in to public reading/ whole cartlodes of disputations of the Catholics with Papists▪ Anabaptistes'/ Arians: likewise of Ecclesiastical stories a huge heap/ and other rabbles of heretics/ and schismatics: which being profitable/ have the D. ladder to climb up into the pulpit. But one thing we may note▪ what is that? that August and Chrysostom writ their sermons, therefore it may be they read them sometimes in the church. If you be in earnest/ in earnest you are a sleep. For so far be you from concluding justly/ that it is meet to read them in the church: that you conclude not they were so much as read. I pray you have any of our homilimakers/ red their homilies in the churches? I think not: unless it have been since you wrote/ to make your argument seem good. So in thinking to make one note, you make two shameful blots. you see not why they may not aswell now be read in the church, as then preached: a pitiful blindness/ whereof the remedy if you will open you eyes/ followeth. Now to come to the 3. chap. Tract. 21.  
The first/ and second diu. be not worth the answer/ the third is answered/ except that he saith/ the Adm. proved not the sufficiency of the scripture by 1. Cor 1. 18. 1. Ro. 16. because there be manifest places for that purpose: as though it were thus to be charged/ if it used places which prove that/ although not the fittest. Where upon that the Lord admitteth no instruments be they never so vile, in the 
Exod. 30. 29. Num. 10. 2.  service of the temple, nor trumpets in assembling the people, but which were sanctified to that use, although others were as apt to do the work as they, I concluded that homilies, etc. not sanctified of the Lord to that purpose, ought to be kept out: he answereth/ that similitudes be no sufficient proof, and that the Lord did not command that nothing should be read in the church but canonical scripture, not remembering that it is the holy ghosts/ which teacheth that the tabernacle with the vessels/ were made according to the patron of the church now. The which in the holy trumpetes is 
Heb 8. 9  more clearly seen: considering that the holy ghost commanding them to be blown by the priests alone/ and comparing the public 
Num. 10. 8. Is. 58. 1.  teaching with the sound of them: doth not obscurely declare/ that they were shadows thereof. Therefore as the trumpets were sancrified to the temple/ by the commandment of God: so to make Homilies holy in Gods principal/ and public service/ the like authority is required.  
Where I show that neither homilies, nor Apocrypha are to be compared in goodness in themselves, nor in fruit toward the hearer, with the scripture, and reading thereof (wherein the D. laboured not, but ●o●●ered/ against the Adm.) he answereth that nothing can thereby be concluded against homilies, which may not be against sermons, and other interpretations, and rather against sermons than homilies: which is detestable. For thereby he affirmeth/ that homilies are both better in themselves/ and read more fruitful to the hearers/ then the word of God preached. Wherein he controileth also the order off our church/ which will have homilies give place/ ●f there be any to preach. For confutation whereof I sand the reader to that before disputed▪ for if the word preached/ be more fruitful than the word it selff read: then reading off homilies inferior in fruit to the reading of scriptures (by the D. confession here) must be much more inferior to the word preached. His reason is/ for I make no make no other difference betwixt homilies, and sermons, but that one is pronounced within book, the other not so. Belike homilies/ and sermons are equal in all other things: yet homilies excel sermons/ in that they are read in the book/ the other is done by lively voice. But is there no difference at all but this? first ●et h●m understand/ that sermons in the church/ are expressly commanded off the Lord/ be such as are necessary for all churches/ and which no one can want. As for homilies/ if they were in this dearth off preaching granted convenient for our church: yet have they no commandment/ whereby they are made necessary/ and such as the church is bound unto: they also are such/ as either all/ or the most flourishing churches have not. In which difference there is as great a gulf between them/ as is between heaven and earth. I speak of them now/ as if they were conveniently ordained. For although in such case/ during the convenience/ they aught to be kept as profitable orders off the church: it these changeable constitutions/ compared with the eternal saw off God/ are infinitely inferior. so it is utterly false which he saith afterward/ all kind of publishing the doctrine in scripture, have necessary uses in the church. Whereby he maketh things necessary to saluaceon/ neither expressed/ nor necessarily concluded of the scripture: and condemneth in this behalf/ all churches which either have been/ or are/ not receiving the use off homilies. Thus ones the singular fruit of preaching the word/ is manifest to be so much greater than homilies reading/ as the means ordained off the lord/ is more fruitful than that off men.  
Secondly if they were convenient/ yet they might both be made/ and publicly read/ without any of those ordinary ministries which the lord hath appointed in his word. for a private man may writ them/ as he may do a commentary: and if a minister make them/ yet he doth nor that by bond of his ministry. for than he should leave a part of it undone/ which wrote not homilies: and having done all other parts/ should be guilty of the not fulfilling of it/ for omitting this. seeing therefore there is no commanded ministry of God required/ neither in making/ nor reading 
Rom. 10. 15.  of them/ and sermons can not be made without: there is here an other singular difference/ lifting up preaching with the fruit thereof/ so far above homilies read▪ as the Lords authorised Ambassador with his broad seal/ and letters patents/ is above him in whom no such marks appear, without whose ministry when (as I have showed) faith can not be engendered/ nor men ordinarily saved: there being plentiful salvation without homilies reading/ as appeareth both otherwise/ and by other churches where they are not: the difference of preaching with the fruit thereof/ is incomparably more/ then that by homilies reading.  
The third difference is/ that where sermons are applied to the present circumstance/ which by change off times/ budding off new vices/ rising of errors/ etc. vary almost every day this kind of interpretation (as that which is stark/ and annummed) can not poursue them. for where the preacher with his sermon/ is able according to the manifold windings/ and turnings of sin/ to wind/ and turn in with it/ to th'end he may strick it: the homilies are not able to turn/ neither off the right hand/ nor off the left/ but to what quarter soever the enemies are retired/ it must keep the train wherein it was set off the maker. And if it were possible (which is not) to make homilies against all diseases of vices/ and errors: and that were also granted/ that the reading ministers could both discern the sickness/ and apply the medicine laid up in the homily/ which requireth the skill off a learned man: yet as no physician (how cunning soever) can so well prescribe at ones/ and in gross against a disease/ as he that upon every step it maketh giveth counsel/ and applieth his medicine: so no homily maker/ be he never so great a divine/ can at ones/ and before hand prescribe so apt/ and strong remedies against sin/ as he that doth it upon the present occasion. Homilies then not able to come to the vices/ further than vices come to them: their use for this/ and other causes aforesaid/ is private. For a man feeling himself assaulted in any wise/ and knowing a treatise arming him against that assault/ may for his use be profitably occupied in it. I leave the difference in gifts/ instrumental causes of sermons/ and homilies: when as beside the gifts required in homilies either reading/ or making/ there are in sermons required the gift of utterance/ and memory. I pass also that the D. in saying there is no difference between an homily read, and a sermon preached, but that the one is pronounced within book, the other not so: maketh no difference between him that writeth his sermon/ and readeth it/ and him that readeth an other manes/ not able to make one himself. this shall be sufficlent to have showed that absurdity.  
Where also go to the ground other absurdities/ laid upon this foundation: as that the promise off the assistance of god's spirit, is as well given to writers of homilies, and their hearers: as to studiers for 
pag. 718.  sermons, and those which hear them. as if he had said/ the Lord will give testimony to his word/ as well by the means which men have devised: as that himself hath ordained. Likewise that sermons should be kept out of the church, as well as homilies, if they should be shut 
Ibi. diu. 5.  out because they are men's interpretation. considering that the preacher albeit he be a man/ yet in respect off his public ministry/ instituted/ and command of the Lord/ is as the angel of God/ yea as Christ himself: which can not be said off homily reader's/ 
Gal. 4. 14 2. Cor. 5. 20. Divis. 5. Pag. 718.  nor maker's/ especially in that respect. To that I allege off the custom of the Churches/ before our Saviour Christ's coming/ and after/ touching homilies not used in the church, and that in such time when there was greatest use off them: he answereth/ that the argument is of authority negatively. where I leave to the judgement of the reader/ what likelihood there is/ that there were any homilies read in the church/ when both holy/ and ecclesiastical writers/ making mention of the form of service of God in the church/ to the lest/ and smallest ceremonies: there is none divers 100 years/ that ones vouchsafeth to mention homilies reading/ which the D. matcheth with preaching/ the highest service of God in his church.  
Where he saith/ that I condemn th'argument drawn of men's authority, it is untrue: I said it constraineth not. And I spoke of it where it is question off searching the truth of a matter/ wherein many easily deceived/ none knoweth the full of it: and not off reporting things done in presence of him that writeth/ whereof he making profession to writ/ can not without gross oversight/ pass by. where he saith/ it is an evil argument to conclude off a thing not done, that it should not be done: if the churches governed by the prophets/ and Apostles did it not/ it being put as a piece of the service of God/ and as the D. saith. necessary: either they faulted in not using this means/ which is absurd/ or the D. which defendeth the use of it. He saith/ I can not but acknowledge one good sermon read, to edify more than the Chalde paraphrastes. so destitute of means to refute the reason I set down/ why a short paraphrasis was meeter than homilies, namely for that they approached nearer unto the reading off the scripture which is best: he setteth his cause at my courtesy. But if I grant that he asketh/ he is nothing nearer: unless he can prove that a learned homily/ is fit than a learned paraphrase made now in this great light/ which the Chalde paraphrastes could not have when they wrote. So that although they expounding darkly/ according to the time they wrote in/ be not so fit now to read/ as an homily: yet it standeth still/ that a pharaphrast is fitter to be read then an homily. Where he saith/ I know that the jews have these paraphrastes yet read: I showed both by scripture and otherwise/ that they had them not openly read/ when there was greatest need of them. If they had them after when divers corruptions were entered/ or now when they are the synagogue of Satan/ tha● maketh rather for me. They which told him that jonathan was 42. years before our Saviour Christ/ if they meant thereby to confute that I set down/ should have given him something to answer the authority I alleged. Although he might be well 42. yearers before our Saviour Christ/ and then too: considering he was school fellow to simeon/ off whom S. Luke maketh mention.  
The testimonies of Denis, and Clement's Epistles read in the church, to prove it untrue which I affirmed/ off the churches practise touching reading off the scriptures alone/ after the Apostles tmes/ be in that respect idle: considering that I only showed/ that that custom continued after their times/ which were the best/ and purest. Neither can the breaking off this order by some churches/ upon some occasion/ let why it may not truly be said both the custom/ and practise. If the Centuries conjecture were received/ that Denis epistles were read/ as Clementes: yet that proveth not that they were read generally/ considering that Clements was read but in certain churches. But what if it be said/ that they were read in those churches/ for that they were untruly 
Hieron. in cattle. illustrium script.  thowght of the Canon of the scripture? Whereto serveth not only that Denises were called Catholic/ but Clement's weighty/ and wonderful. Likewise that Euseb. esteeming Clement the canonical 
3. lib 16. Lib. 3. 27.  translator of the Epist. to the hebrews: it is not unlike/ but he had that epistle in like estimation. Last of all for that as he lightly rejected the true canonical books of Saint james/ Jude/ and second of Saint Peter: so he lightly held those for canonical/ 
Lib. 2. 23. Lib. 3. 3  which were not if I answer thus/ my conjecture hath better reason/ then you yet show: and then the reading off these epistles helpeth you not. you have only Soters/ which help nothing more/ being read only at Corinth. Howbeit it shall be sufficient answer/ that as other corruptions crept in then: so the seed of this began to be sown/ and that the credit which your cause gaineth in that diverse churches read them: it loseth in that diverse others received them not. Likewise it maketh against him/ that the council giveth no place unto homilies/ but in extreme cases of sickness/ etc. off the minister: where he maketh them the people's ordinary food. The council as it were in a great drowght/ or snow when all is covered/ will have the sheep holpen with this hard meat the D. will have it their comen allowance. Beside that it is the objection/ which I myself immediately after prevented: 
pa 720.  my answer whereunto the D. toucheth not but only affirmeth it a good decree, and no cause of corruption: which is gross beggary. considering/ that I show how upon occasion thereof/ in time came in the popish Legend/ and Gregory's homilies: which justled out the holy Bible.  
Where I showed that Bucers' words secme sergeant/ 
Diuis. 6. pag. 720.  whereby he is brought exhorting to increase the number of homilies, when the Lord should bless the realm with learned preachers: forasmuch as there were then learned preachers/ able to make homilies/ which should have exceeded the volume of the Bible: he answereth/ that there is no cause to suspect them, but the reason he can not answer. After he citeth M Ridly but fond. for if the authority of all those which established that order/ be not able to make it good: much less his alone/ and being a party in this cause he ought not (albeit a singular man) be witness. Where I alleged the council council of Laodicea/ ordaining that nothing should be read in the 
Diuis. 7. pag. 71●. 59 can.  church/ but the canonical scripture: he answereth/ the council ment, nothing under the name of holy scriptures: which is an open/ and shameful corruption. for after the council had said/ that the gospels with other scriptures/ should be read on Sabbath days: it addeth/ we must not read books which are out off the canon, but the canonical books of the old, and now testament alone. And where he would confirm his interpretation by the 47. canon of the third council of Carthage: he is again indebted 
In the def Apolo. 5. part. 3. cha 10. dluis.  unto Harding/ which against Master jewel/ alleging the council of Carthage/ to prove that it commanded nothing should be read in Christ's congregation/ but the Canonical scriptures answereth with the same words the D. doth/ charging him with falsehood. To whom as now also to the D. the bishop answereth/ that the meaning off the council was, that nothing else should be read: which he proveth by the council of Hippo/ an abridgement off that off Carthage: when it is thus written. The scriptures canonical which are to be read in the 
chap. 38.  church, and beside which nothing may be read: and so goeth forward alleging other testimonies/ affirming partly that nothing ought/ partly that nothing was wont/ to be read in the church beside holy scripture.  
His answer to the council of Colen/ is too childish. The counsels words in the sixth Canon are these/ where in times past it was ordained off the most holy fathers, that the holy scriptures alone should be read in the church: we know not by what carelessness, other not to be compared with them, are come into their place. Whereby appeareth/ that it condemneth not only reading off saints lives, whereof it speaketh after: but generally the breach of the counsels decree/ that nothing should be read in the church/ but holy scripture. Where he museth how we can say, that reading off homilies were means to instle the bible into corners, seeing we will have the reading of scriptures give place to preaching: I have showed how gross/ and intolerable ignorance it is/ where I proved the excellency of preaching before simple reading off scriptures/ but especially before homilies. The objection which I made off 
Divis. 8. Pag. 721.  prayer/ is answered: the answer is not once moved, as for that the necessity off changing the words of scripture in prayer, is as strong against sermons preaching, as homilies reading: I have showed how false it is: when as that change is authorised by precise commandment of God/ which can not be showed for reading homilies His reason that the Apocrypha may be read in the church/ because the council of Carthage decreing only the reading off canonical scripture/ took them in that number/ adding that they be aswell read in the church/ as counted portions of the old/ and new testament: is absurd. For seeing it is utterly unlawful for them/ to take them as portions of the old/ and new testament: it followeth by his own reason/ that it is utterly unlawful for them/ to be openly read.  
Where he saith/ there is nothing in them contrary to the rest off the scripture, accounting them as a part: although the reason be nothing worth/ considering that so a book gathered out of Cato/ Theognes'/ and Cebes tables/ etc. may be read in the church: yet I answer/ that there be many places partly plainly contrary to the holy scripture/ partly frivolous/ and unworthy to be read. For Esoras Apocrypha/ I will refer the reader partly unto Caluins' 
In his Opusc.  censure of them (the treatise I do not precisely remember/ saving that it is like to be in one of those against the Anabaptists/ or Libertines/ whose gospel those books be) and partly to the manifest contradiction with the holy scripture: which referring 
Apoc. 〈◊〉 li. 1. c 2 etc. osden ● 2. Gen. 34. 2● Gen 49 5 judith. 9 2. 3. 4.  the genealogy of Esra unto Eleazar/ to whom the priesthood belonged/ is by the Apocrypha referred unto Ely/ and consequently unto Ithamar/ to whom it did not appertain. of some off the other I will give a few examples. Where the holy ghost condemneth the fact of Simeon/ and Levy towards the Sichemites: judith in propounding it for example/ and to strengthen her faith in the cutting off of Holofernus head/ alloweth it. If it be said/ but the book doth not allow it. The scripture never propoundeth a faulty prayer without condemning of it/ especially so long.  
The son of 
a Chap. 4●. 20.  Syrach/ affirming that the true Samuel prophesied after his death/ leaveth the disquieting off the just/ in the courteousie of conjurers: which is ungodly doctrine/ and contrary to that peace the 
b Luk. 16 22.  scripture saith they be in. where 
c Dan. 3. 23. 25.  Daniel showeth that the fire bourned/ after the three young 
Apoc. 14. 13.  men were thrown into it/ to the commendation of the power of God/ which kept them from suffering in any part of it: the counterfeit 
d ver. 49. of the 3. children's song.  Daniel/ affirming that the Angel smote the flame off the fire out of the furnace/ and caused as it were a moist hissing wind in the midst/ etc. partly falsifieth/ partly discrediteth Daniel/ as one that left out such weighty things as he there supposeth. I pass by how unworthy it is/ that 
e Ecclesiasticus 31 21.  he that hath overeaten himself/ is bidden to rise/ and go vomit/ and after get himself to rest: which are precepts fit for the kitchen/ then for the church Likewise 
f Macha. 2. 2. 1. etc.  the jewish fable/ of the fire taken to be hidden/ and other such toys/ and of 
g & 2. 14. 38. 42.  commending him that slew himself: off 
h & 2. 15. 39  demanding pardon off the reader/ a language unmeet for the holy ghost. These few of a number which come to mind/ shall suffice for a taste.  
And be 'cause the D. tasteth nothing but authority of men/ he hath 
i ad Laetam.  Jerome of this mind: which writing to a woman/ biddeth her take heed off all the Apocrypha, affirming that they are not theirs whose names they bear, that there are many faulty things mingled, and that it requireth wisdom, to seek for gold in dirt. 
k jerom. In praef. in Dan. ibid. jeron. praef. in prou.  The hymn also of the three children/ he runneth through: where Erasmus jestingly saith/ it is marvel that Jerome putteth this song upon the spit (meaning/ condemneth it) seeing it is both read, and sung in churches every where, as if it were some special holy thing. Whereby it is not unlike but that he speaketh in another place/ off the reading off Apocrypha to edifying of the people, not to confirmation of the doctrine is spoken rather story wise/ in telling what was done in that time/ them what he allowed. for if it be dangerous for one to read them privately/ how must it needs be more to read them openly? unless it be with exposition/ which is yet more absurd. Except peradventure to reconcile Jerome/ one had rather interpret those words the church reads, of the private reading of every one of the church: whereof there are examples.  
Now I must put the D. also in mind/ that neither in his first/ nor later book/ he hath answered the Adm. reason/ touching private reading only of the Apocrypha: because their name which signifieth secret, or hid doth speak as much. If he will say/ they are so called because the writers of them are unknown: he can not so escape/ considering that this name doth put a difference between them/ and canonical: which it could not/ if that signification should be followed. for part of the writers of canonical books/ as of joshua/ judges/ Sam. Chron. kings/ etc. are unknown. To that wherein the book is charged/ for lifting up of divers cha. of the Apocrypha, to be read as extra ordinary lessons upon feast days, wherein there are greatest assemblies, some chap. of canonical scripture being not read at all: he answereth not a word/ but leaveth it to speak for itself. Seeing then the scripture precisely forbiddeth to ordain a pastor not fit to teach/ and bore reading off homilies is convenient/ off holy scriptures insufficient to save the people by/ which are the cruches wherewith the D. would uphold this lame ministry: it followeth together with the shameful absurdities/ off reading to be preaching/ to be as good/ yea better than preaching: that unpreaching pastors as the pestilence of the church/ ought to be thrown out.  
Now I return back to the 7. Tract. off Ministers apparel/ 
Pag. 256. in 32. sec. pag. 28.  whereunto albeit I was determined (as may appear) to reply: yet considering after/ that this cause hath been so fully debated/ both by books in print/ and other treatises written in the hands of as many as desire after them: considering also that the D. second answer (beside false accusations/ as that men have 
Pag. 256.  learned of me, and my partners to esteem the surplis, etc. corrupt in themselves etc. open facing down off things in knowledge of all men/ as that none are hindered one jot from coming to the gospel by prescript apparel: bore affirmations without proof/ as that no minister 
257.  making conscience off wearing th'apparel, will rather wear it moved by example of other, then by the law which commandeth it: almost continual 
258.  reasoning not to the matter/ which he cowardly dissembleth/ as that Prophets (which were extraordinary ministers) had an extraordinary apparel, which is not denied (which train taken at 
262.  the beginning/ is followed to the end): triumphs in his own shame/ ●● appeareth in the place of Salomons Ecclesiastes): I say beside these considering that he hath almost nothing at all? not before answered/ and that he hath not fetched from any treasury off good learning/ but as taken up by the high way side● and considering that we have this question with very few (him/ the Papists/ or those which have already cast an eye unto the papists/ only excepted/ with whom to travail in this point before their other gale be purged/ were to heal the skin/ and leave the bones still broken) all these things considered/ with that that it may better appear/ we take not these things for the greatest matter we complain of: I thowght good to tread this treatise under my foot/ and to save some good hours/ which might be lost in unripping this beggary. That I say off having this question with very few/ him/ etc. excepted/ I mean in that where he saith the surplis, square cap, and tippet be most convenient, decent, and comely: 
pag. 25●. 285.  others in whom there is any love off the truth/ confess it a weed unmeet for a minister of the gospel/ which not able to root out/ they are for certain causes content to bear with. And unless destitute of answer/ he ply his matter with accusations of disobedience/ and contempt of magistrate: yet I doubt not but with all indifferent/ our open/ and simple profession of the necessity of higher powers/ and off the honour/ and humble submission to Her Majesty/ and all magistrates underneath her/ either in doing things commanded/ or patiently suffering for that which we can not with good conscience do/ shall be sufficient defence, especially seeing that even in this matter of apparel/ it is confessed/ that obedience ought to be given/ where the commandment is with injury to the ministry.  
As for the D. either error/ or flattery/ that in things indifferent commanded by the Magistrate, we ought not to have such regard to the offence 
Diuis. 4. pag. 258. 1. Cor. 8. 7. 11. Rom. 14. 50. 20. Rom. 14. 15. 21.  of the weak, but that if all should be offended, that is to say perish/ and make shipwreck of conscience (for that is the offence which S. Paul/ and we after him speak off) yet we ought to do that which is commanded: the Magistrate being thereby lifted above the Lord/ we utterly condemn. Considering it being a flat commandment of the holy ghost/ that we abstain from things in their own nature indifferent/ if the weak brother should be offended: no authority either off church/ or comen wealth/ can make it void. And where the magistrates commanding/ and our obedience unto him/ ought to be squared out first by the love of God then of men/ our brethren especially: this new carpenter/ as one that frameth his squire according to his timber/ and not his timber according to the squire/ will make our obedience to the civil Magistrate/ the rule off the love of God/ and our brethren. So that in steed that he should teach/ that we may obey no further unto the magistrate/ then the same will agreed with the glory of God/ and salvation of our brethren: he teacheth that in things of their own nature indifferent/ we must have no further regard/ neither to salvation of our brethren/ nor to the glory of God (which in neglect of their salvation is trodden under food) then will agreed with doing that the magistrate commandeth. 
1. Cor. 8. 12.  But I am gone further than I thowght: seeing there can hardly be any so simple/ which perceiveth not easily/ both the fondness/ and absurdity of his answers in this question.   

The reply to the D. 8. Tract. off Archbishopes/ and bishops.  
Unto the first/ and second division/ being beside the question/ I answer nothing. Before I come to the third/ 
Math. 20. Luk. 22. In the 1. tract.  forsomuch as the place off the Evangelists/ which is before/ is general/ and striketh at all the lofty/ and swelling titles of the ministry: I will set it here down in the forward of the reasons/ browghte against the names of Archbishopes/ etc. as that which speaking against all the smoky names/ must needs comprehend these. In the D. answer therefore/ whereby he goeth about to prove that these words gracious; or bountiful 
Divis. 1. Pag. 63. Luk. 22. 25  Lords, make nothing against the great names/ and magnifical titles of the ministers: this is the first/ that Saint Mark, and Muthewe have no words bearing any such sense. Whereunto I answer/ that as it is a general rule almost throwghowte the scripture/ that repetitions are not without some usury/ and increase: so in the writings of the evangelists/ it is to be observed almost every where. And therefore it ought not to have been strange/ if other Evangelists speaking off the authority only/ S. Luke added also touching the titles.  
Secondly he answereth/ this claws it shall not be so with you, is not referred unto those words (are called bountiful and beneficial) but unto ambition, and tyrannical dominion only. whereunto I answer/ first that forsomuch as the things there affirmed of the Ministers/ and the word off gracious Lords, is as well affirmed 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  off kings/ as the word off bearing dominion: therefore those words (it shall not be so with you) are as well referred unto the words (gracious lords) as unto the word of dominion. Secondly your answer is contrary to the authority you have alleged out of Caluin. For if it be true/ that these words bountiful benefactors, be all one with the words of Mathewe kings exercise authority over them, and your self grant 
Math. 20. 25.  that these words (it shall not be so with you) are referred unto the dominion/ and exercise off authority: it followeth that they must needs be verified also/ off bountiful benefactors.  
Thirdly he answereth/ that this word bountiful is off no such imperiousness, but it might well agreed to the disciples, and consequently to ministers. Whereunto I answer/ that it is no word of empire/ but annexed unto it: and therefore that which can not agreed to the ministers/ whom God hath shut from any such dominion. And that it is a word off great port/ and stateliness/ appeareth forsomuch as not only the Egyptian kings were so called: but as the D. himself confesseth/ the hebrews did so call their princes. 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  Now he must understand/ that that Hebrew word which he hath set down (bountiful) was neither given unto the Hebrew princes by flattery of their subjects/ nor wrong from the subjects by tyrannous ambition of their princes: but was a title given unto them by the holy ghost. Therefore it is apparante/ that S. Luke in those words/ either respecting the custom of the profane kings/ or of the good princes of the jews in 〈◊〉 paste: ment that style was proper to the civil magistrate/ and to high for the low countenance off a minister.  
Again this title of munificence/ and bountifulness as Aristotle showeth/ is much more than liberal: and is not said but of 
Ethick. 4  those/ which besides a great readiness of mind to give/ have also wherewith to bestow great gifts/ and that to many. So that it is no marvel/ although this title be given off S. Luke unto princes/ as they which for the most part/ are only able to use the bounty answerable unto that title. Again where he saith/ that these words of S. Luke are to be expounded by S. Mathewe, and Mark, which have for (bountiful) they that are great: it is manifest by his own confession/ that this title off bountiful importeth some great pomp/ and outward stateliness. And thereby followeth that S. Mathewe/ and Luke using these three words (princes, great, kings) to note one thing: it must needs be that this word bountiful, being as you say all one with (great) is forthwith all one with the other two words/ princes', and kings. last of all/ Caluin giving a reason off the signification of this word/ a little after the words you have alleged/ saith that thereupon it cometh that men pay tributes and impostes, that princes may have to maintain the port, and magnificence of their estate. Whereby you might understand/ that this word doth draw withal a more glittering/ and glorius estate/ then can agrree to the simplicity of the ministry of the gospel.  
Where also against me making two members of the sentence off our S. christ/ one touching the authority/ and dominion of the civil magistrate/ tother touching his title/ and name/ the D. out of Caluins' words would prove/ that they be all onethe must understand that Calu. words are not full enough to carry that meaning. For when he saith/ that S. Luke calleth kings bountiful, in the same sense that S. Matthew saith they exercise authority: his purpose is to show/ that they pertain/ and are referred both to the description of his estate/ and to put the difference between him/ and the minister of the word. For otherwise they can not be said to he all one/ seeing one of them is verified off the other: and Luke beside this title of bountiful lords, maketh mention off exercising authority, and dominion over them. Therefore if this be an absurd saying (they which exercise authority over them, exercise authority over them): it is clear that Caluins' meaning is not/ to confounded one of those with an other. and if it should/ yet the Evangelists words will not suffer it.  
Where further he saith/ that the name off gracious Lord being a name of superiority, and reverence, may therefore be given to ecclesiastical persons, as well as unto civil: I can see no cord of reason which bindeth these together. For the name of King/ Prince/ Duke/ etc. names off superiority/ and reverence/ by his reason may be given to ecclesiastical persons: which himself denieth. Therefore the D. must seek another distinction than this. Nay let him divide titles of dignity when he will/ making as he doth these two of superiority/ and reverence one member: whatsoever he maketh the other/ it will fall within their compass. Furthermore the names of Earls/ and Dukes are no more proper to civil magistrates in our country/ then the name off gracious lord. For as the one is a note of one lifted up into high degree/ so tother: and as the name off a lord with us/ is not the name off an office/ but off honour only: so be the names off Duke's/ and Earls. For men being borne duke's/ and Earls are not therefore borne magistrates: which notwithstanding they should be/ if the names off Duke's/ and Earls were proper to the civil magistrate.  
In the name off Archbishop/ the first part which signifieth a prince/ is proper to the civil magistrate/ and can not without robbery/ be translated from him unto Ecclesiastical persons. Which is to be showed first in that our Saviour christ/ and the Apostles when soever they speak off the superiority of the ministers off the new Testament/ do so carefully avoid that word/ with all those which fall from it/ or are derived of it. Then in that Aristor. saith/ the word dominion, doth signify an imperious rule, as Beza observeth: where he showeth that 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. upon them 13. of the Acts.  it can not agreed to the ministers of the gospel. Thirdly even by the D. own confession in this place. For the greek word signifinge a prince/ which name he confesseth proper unto the civil magistrate: 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  it must follow that the name off Archbishop/ which is asmuch as prince of bishops/ breaketh upon the possession of the magistrate. whereupon followeth that that name is not only injurious/ and tyrannical in respect of the order off ministers/ while it challengeth princedom over them: but presumptuous against the magistrate/ whyleste it pulleth that name unto it/ which is proper to him. So that if it were lawful for him/ to exercise any superiority over his fellow ministers: yet it ought to be by an other title. My mayor which you say is overthrown, hath not so much as felt any attempt. for the overthowe thereof were to prove/ that the names proper to the civil magistrate/ belong unto one minister over another: which is not once endeavoured. The minor (which is that a civil magistrate is severed from the ecclesiastical persons by lofty titles) hath nothing against it/ but this that gracious lord is comen to both civil magistrate, and ecclesiastical person: which is taken for granted/ where it ought to be proved. for all though he say/ I may see it: yet he showeth forth no light of reason to make me see it by. as for that he allegeth/ that in some places he is called Dominus, which hath but small lordship: I have answered it in another place/ where I show that lord with us/ can not be so taken/ unless he mean a Christmas lord/ our lord of misrule. Now both the propositions standing/ the conclusion is most true. When as also the title of Grace, is given to ecclesiastical persons/ which is given unto the prince/ and doth not agreed unto any under the degree of a Duke/ the next unto the prince: I would gladly know what difference there is/ between the titles off ecclesiastical persons/ and the civil magistrate/ so great that he must needs be very blind which doth not see it. And where the D. saith/ that ecclesiastical persons may show forth the countenance of their degree: he neither showeth what that is/ and must be believed off his bore word/ for there is no proof at all. But off the pomp in other things/ there shall be (God willing) spoken off afterward.  
Wheer the D. saith it is the point off a Sophister to strive for 
Divis 3. pag 300.  names of things, where there is agreement of the matter: unto the reasons/ and examples I alleged to prove/ that the very bore 
in 5. diui. Pag. 32.  use off certain names is unlawful/ unless the things noted by them be not/ he answereth not a word. And if those examples be not strong enough/ to obtain that at his hands: I would know of him which maketh so small account off names/ whether a man which confesseth himself mortal/ may be called by the name of jehovah/ etc. The answer to the first proposition is insufficient. I could take exceptions to the examples here aliedged/ as that these words I have said you are Gods, are not given unto magistrates that they should be saluted by the name of God/ or that one king should be called the God of England/ another the god of France (which were not tolerable/ and approaching to the pride of Antiochus) but to this end that the authority which they exercise according unto God/ might be acknowledged in them: yet I answer generally/ that those speeches be therefore lawful/ because the Lord in his scripture hath communicated them with men. wherefore if the D. will prove that the title of archbishop/ proper unto our Saviour christ/ may 
1. Pet. 5. 4  be imparted unto a mortal man: he must show that as the name of God/ light off the world/ etc. is given unto men in the scripture: so is also the name of Archbishop. which when he shall never do/ it is in vain to pretend these examples. For as it had been an intolerable arrogancy for any man/ to have either taken/ or given the authority of God unto the sons of Adam/ unless he himself had so honoured them: so is it full of presumption/ either to give or take this so high a name/ which being the several of our Saviour Christ/ was never by no word of his/ laid out in comen unto any simple man whatsoever.  
The D. answer unto the second proposition by distinction (the ignorance whereof he doth so often times reproach me with) is full of disorder/ and hath nothing sound. first it faulteth in that it rendeth a sunder things which can not be separated/ and that two ways: one in separating the government of the church by pastors/ doctor's/ etc. from the spiritual. For when the ecclesiastical ministry hath respect to the soul/ and conscience: when it is called the ministry of the spirit/ spiritual: when they which 
13. Ebr. 17  〈◊〉 it/ are called ministers in the kingdom of heaue●● when the outward preaching/ excommunication/ and other discipline 
1. Cor. 3. 8 1. Cor. 12. 1. 5. Mat. 11. 11 2. Cor. 10. 3. 4.  which they use/ be spiritual: this separation of the outward government of the church from the spiritual/ and making of them opposite members/ doth not distinguish but destroy the government of Christ. Tother is that where our Saviour Christ governeth his church spiritually/ both with his spirit/ and word: he placeth his spiritual government/ only in that he toucheth the hearts of his elect, by his spirit. And where our Sau. Christ useth the external ministery of men/ not only in distribution of his word/ but also of his spirit: the D. maketh th'external ministry/ to serve only for the dispensation of the word/ and not of the spirit. whereas he ought to have considered/ that as Christ himself sitting in heaven/ now teacheth by the mouth of the ministry: so he giveth also his spirit by the same ministry/ in which respect it is called the ministry of the spirit. Seeing therefore the external government of Christ in his church is spiritual/ and even that inward towch off the spirit of God/ is not ordinarily/ but by the subordinate ministries which God hath appointed in his church: it is manifest that that distinction/ that Christ hath no subordinate pastors underneath him in the spiritual government, is false.  
And if no man should touch it/ the D. hath given it the fall himself. For where he saith/ Christ in the spiritual regiment is the only Pastor: by and by he saith/ he is the only archbishop in spiritual government. Which if it be true: then hath he also in the spiritual government/ other bishops underneath him. for he can not be said arch or chief bishop/ but in respect of other bishops under him. And if this distinction were not false: yet is it here idle/ and out of place. for S. Peter out of whom I cited this testimony/ appropriateth to our S. Christ the name of archbishop/ in respect of the external regiment: that is to say/ in respect that every bishop had a particular charge of ministry underneath him. And where the D. faith/ there are other archbishops beside Christ in the external government: seeing he can not deny/ but the authority of Christ in every province/ is greater than off his Archbishop: I would gledly know of him/ when he hath given the name of Archbishop to another/ what name he leaveth unto our Saviour Christ/ whereby that excellency/ and pre-eminence of authority/ may be noted. if it fall out that there is no name above an archbishop: I see not how he must not be constrained/ to confess that that name is excessive/ which being the greatest that can be in ecclesiastical government/ is given to him that hath not greatest authority.  
The other fault of this distinction is/ that it confoundeth/ and shuffleth together the authority of our Saviour Christ/ as he is the son of God only before all worlds/ coequal with his father: with that which he hath given off his father/ and which he exerciseth in respect he is mediator between God and us. For in the government of the church/ and superiorytie over the officers of it/ our Saviour Christ himself hath a superior/ 
1. Cor. 4▪ 23. 1. Cor. 11. 3. 1. Cor. 15. 27. 28.  which is his father: but in the government of kingdoms/ and other comen wealths/ and in the superiority which he hath over kings/ and judges/ he hath no superior/ but immediate authority with his father. Therefore the moulding up of the two estates/ and governements together/ is to lay the foundations of many errors. Last of all admitting this distinction/ how cometh it to pass that this point of his/ that there are many archbishops in the outward regiment of the church, being that which is denied: is left without any assistance of reason out of the scripture?  
Here remaineth only to prove/ the title Head of the church/ to belong only to our Saviour Christ. I must therefore desire 
4. Diuis. 301.  the reader to turn unto the 6. divis. pag. 181. where the D. confesseth as much as I/ that christ is only the head of the church. If Christ be only head: then that I set down/ that the civil magistrate is head of the commonwealth/ and not of the church/ standeth. But if the magistrate be head off the church: then Christ is not only. Howbeit having for fear off the owtcry of all/ made a little courtesy unto the truth: he forth with lifteth up his heel against it/ and will have the civil magistrate head also of the church/ whereupon must follow infinite absurdities. first the doctrine of the Apostle is by this means clean overthrown/ 
Ephes. 1. 21. 1. Col. 18.  which showeth that this title Head of the church/ was given to our Sau. christ/ to lift him above all powers/ rules/ and domyons' / either in heaven/ or earth. Where if this title belong also unto the civil magistrate: than it is manifest/ that there is a power in earth/ whereunto our Saviour Christ is not in this point superior. And by the same reason that he may give the civil magistrate this title/ he may give him also that he is the first begotten of all creatures/ the first begotten off the dead/ yea the redeemer of his people which he governeth. For these all are a like given unto him/ as dignities whereby he is lifted up above all creatures. And beside that the whole argument of the Apostle in both places/ lead to show that this title Head of the church/ can not be said of any creature: it is confirmed by the demonstrative article/ wherewith the Hebrews esyecially/ whom Saint Paul followed/ use to tie that which is verified off one/ unto himself alone. For he saith he is the head: as if he should say/ he 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  and none other is the head of the church. Again if the church be the body of Christ/ and of the civil magistrate/ it shall have two heads: which being monstruous/ is to the great dishonour off christ/ and his church. So also should come to pass/ that the church having the magistrate for head/ is accomplished/ and made a perfect man without Christ: so that the knitting of our Saviour christ/ should not be an accomplishment off that which lacked/ but an addition off that which is to much. And if the church be planted in a popular estate: then forsomuch as all govern in comen/ and all have authority/ all shall be head there/ and no body at all: which is another monster.  
Now if we consider the causes/ why our Saviour Christ is called the head of his church (which are that as the head is the highest part in a man/ above which there is none always joined with the body: so he is the chiefest/ and highest in his church/ inseparably knit with it/ and that as the head giveth sense/ and moving unto all the body: so he quickeneth/ and together with understanding of heavenly things/ giveth strength to walk therein) I say when these be the causes: it is manifest/ these things nor no one of them/ either agreeing/ or having any possibility to agreed with any creature in heaven/ or earth/ either towards the whole church/ or towards any particular assembly: that the name off the Head of the church/ can not be without great violence/ given unto any simple creature. And if it be said that the civil magistrate is a subordinate/ and mynisteriall head off the church/ as the magistrate being head off the comen wealth/ hath other which may be called under heads beneath him: he must understand that those heads are appointed/ because the chief magistrate can not be present with the whole body of his people/ nor in his own person perform the office of a head unto them all. But forasmuch as Christ is never severed from his body/ nor from any part of it/ and is able/ and doth perform that wherefore he is called head/ unto all his church: it ought not to seem strange that there may be a subordinate head in the comen wealth/ where there can be none in the church.  
And as it hath certain ground in the scripture/ that this title of head of the church/ is to high to be given unto any man: so hath it been confirmed from time to time/ by writers both old/ and new/ which have had the honour of Christ in any convenient estimation. Let us therefore see whether this controversy over the title of head of the church/ not only in respect of the whole/ but in respect also of a particular congregation/ have 
De simplicitate praelat. Apol. 2. part. 2. c. divis. 1. Lively 1. contra litter. Petil. c. 5: Lively 3 contra litter. Pet. c. 42.  their approbation. Cyprian saith/ there is but one head off the church. The bishop of Salisbury affirmeth the same. Augustine proveth that the minister which baptizeth/ can not be the head of him which is baptised/ because christ is the head off the whole church. And in another place/ that Paul could not be head of the churches which he planted/ because christ is head off the whole body. which reason should be nothing worth/ if either Saint Paul/ or any other minister might be a ministry all head off the church under Christ. And if the name of ministerial head off the churches which Paul planted/ can not be given unto him which was a governor next/ and immediately under Christ in that same kind of government in the which our Saviour Christ is head/ that is to say spiritual/ no not then when there was no Christian magistrate to make challenge unto that title/ and to bring it into doubt/ whether it belonged unto S. Paul/ or to him: it can not be that the magistrate may take unto him that title/ whose government doth not approach so near unto our Saviour Christ's/ as he is head off the church.  
And as they have taken away this title from the ministers over their flocks: so have they from emperors/ and princes in regard off their subjects. Ambrose saith/ it is the greatest honour the Emperor can have, to be called son of the church: 
Epist. 32.  and in the same Epistle/ a good Emperor is within, not above the chutch. Caluin teacheth that there is but one only head 
Institut. li. 4. ca 6. sect. 9  of the church, which is Christ: that the name doth only agreed to him, that in that name he can have no substitute upon earth. Where if it be said/ that he ment that of the Pope over all churches: although the disputation be directed against the Pope: yet his reasons are general/ and prove that no man may usurp that title. But to clear that matter/ in an other place he 
upon the 7. ca of Amos.  showeth/ that it is to much to attribute unto a King the name of the head of the church: and that they are blasphemous, that give him it Now where he saith here/ and repeateth lordship 301. that in respect of the supreme authority which god hath given unto the magistrate, he may be called the head off the church: the supreme authority over the church/ being only given unto Christ: it must follow that this name only belongeth to him.  
Where partly in this divis. but more fully pag 301. he saith/ unless in respect of life, and nutriment given, and spiritual blessings powered into the body of the church, our Saviour Christ is only head: yet touching the external society, and outward government, the magistrate 
Pigh. hierar. ecclesiast li. 3. ca 4. Harding in the def of the Apol. part 2 o● diu. 2▪ Divis 3. pag 300.  also may be head off the church: it is first to be noted from whom this provision was brought him. For as Harding borrowed it of Pighius: so the D. pourueiers had it from Harding/ or from both. For to overthrow this doctrine that Christ alone is head of his church/ this distinction is brought/ that according to the inward influence of grace/ christ only is head: but according to the outward government/ the being of head is comen with him to others. For answer whereunto/ I refer myself in part to that I have written before/ off the absurd distinction between the government of the church by the ministry of men/ instituted off our Sau. Christ/ and his spiritual government. For that if there be no head but christ/ in respect of the spiritual government: there is no head but he in respect of the word/ sacraments/ and discipline administered by those whom he hath appointed. forasmuch as that is also his spiritual government. And even in the outward society/ and assemblies of the church/ where one or two are gathered in his name/ either for hearing off the word/ or for prayer/ or any other church exercise/ our Saviour Christ being in the midst of them as mediator/ must needs be there as head: and if he be there not idle/ but doing the office of the head fully: it followeth that even in the outward society/ and meetings of the church/ no simple man can be called the head of it. Seeing that our Saviour Christ doing the whole office of the head himself alone: leaveth nothing to men/ by doing whereof they may obtain that title. Wherefore whosoever in seeking to profit the church according to his calling/ doth any thing to the preservation of this body: he doth it as an eye/ a arm/ a ear/ or as some other member/ and not a● head of it.  
Now to his distinction out of Andreas. who after he confesseth that Christ is only head/ as he governeth the church with 
Pag. 18●.  his spirit: addeth/ that for somuch as the church of God being visible/ is not only ruled by the word/ but by sword of the magistrate/ that there be so many heads of the church/ as rulers of countries. Where first let it be observed/ that he quoteth no place: peradventure lest some either words/ or circumstance might give the answer. Then that he enhanceth his credit whith the title of a learned man: where for any thing I have red (and I have red his defence of the real presence against Beza) it might well have been left out. Howbeit both for his corruption in judgement/ and otherwise: I refer the learned reader/ to that Vrsinus a learned man hath written against him. Whereby he may understand how this commendation was without discretion/ only to serve the present turn. And I beseech you Sir/ who is this Vergerius whom Andreas reprehendeth: which you have so nakedly set down/ clothing Andrue so gorgeously? This is is good reader Petrus Paulus Vergerius/ with whom whether the other be once to be compared/ either for sound knowledge/ or innocency of life/ I leave to their judgement which have red/ and known them both: and withal whether if an argument of authority be off such weight as the D. will have it/ he hath by this testimony made a hole in his own cause.  
In the distinction it is first to be observed/ that as Andrue dissenteth from the truth: so he doth from Pighius/ Harding/ and the D. for when he opposeth the government by the sword/ unto that off the word/ making it off the word a piece of the spiritual government/ and than saith that there be divers heads of the church in respect of government by the sword: he giveth to understand that his judgement is/ that in respect of the ecclesiastical ministry/ our Saviour Christ is only head. Which may yet better appear in that he saith/ theridamas are so many heads/ as rulers of countries: and saith not so many heads as bishops of churches. And if this be not his mind: it will stand the D. upon/ to bring out other words to declare it. Now Pigh. Hard. and the D. upon the bore word of Athanasius/ will have heads in respect of the ecclesiastical government: 
pa 30●.  they one over all churches/ he one in every diocese. Wherein the reader may see/ that if this rotten seed take rooting/ howsoever the Prince's honour be pretended/ the fruiete pertaineth also to the bishops. In which distinction of bishop head off his/ but not of the whole church: albeit the D. would gladly seem to slip from the Papists/ yet they will not so part with him. For beside that I have showed how the godly learned/ upon that our Sau. Christ is head/ conclude as well against heads of particular churches/ as against one head off the universal: this judgement of his is the divinity off two Popish Counsels/ Constance/ and Basile. Where the Bishops (those especially before partners in this robbery of our Saviour Christ with the man of Rome/ and namely he of Antyoche) displeased that the Pope alone should have all that boutye: to make Room for themselves/ shut his headship up in the compass off his own country: opening their eyes to so much truth/ as served their own turns.  
But to come to the point off Andrues distinction: let it be considered first that our Saviour Christ is in one respect creator / and preserver of man kind/ in another redeemer/ and upholdder of his church. For he created once/ and preserveth daily as God coequal with his Father/ and holy spirit: but he both redeemed once/ and daily gathereth his church/ as mediator of god and man. in which respect even yet in his infinite glory he enjoyeth/ he is/ a shall be under his father/ and holy ghost: until having put down all rule/ and power/ he shall tender the kingdom to his 
1. Cor. 1●, 24.  Father. Secondly it is to be considered/ that as our Saviour Christ doth these in dyners' respects: so he doth them by divers means. To wit that as God simply he hath ordained certain means/ to serve his providence in the perservation of man kind: so as God and man/ he hath ordained other certain/ for the gathering/ and keeping off his church. These grounds laid/ it is to be considered/ whether the exercise off the sword by the magistrate/ come from our Saviour Christ preserver of man kind/ wherein he is coequal to his father: or as mediator of his church/ wherein he is inferior. Where forasmuch as our Saviour Christ's kingdom was not of this world/ and that against horrible disorders in his church/ punishable by the sword/ he did not (one extraordinary whipping excepted) draw it: and considering that this lawful ordinance of God/ is not only in the church/ but without: it is manifest that our Saviour Christ in respect of his mediatorship towards us/ exerciseth not the civil sword. For in that he said his kingdom was not off this world/ he made an opposition not unto the wicked of the world/ as other some times but unto Caesar's authority/ which was the ordinance of God/ whereto he was falsely charged to have made claim. And in that he drew not the sword against open disorders/ it argueth that that was without the compass off his vocation: otherwise he would never have suffered the glory of God/ to have been trodden under feet. And in that the authority of the sword in heathen princes (although not a like used) is the same ordinance of God that in Christian: th'one proceeding off God immediately/ and not from our Gaviour Christ as mediator/ tother doth likewise. But why should we wrestle further in this point with Andrue? seeing the D. which buildeth of his authority/ in confessing that the magistrate is ordained off God immediately/ standeth with us that he is not ordained off our Saviour christ/ in respect that he is mediator between God and us. heruppon followeth that the office of the civil magistrate is properly one of those means/ which serveth the lords providence in the preservation of man kind. Now if the civil magistrate should be the head off the church: he must be an under/ and subordinat head of Christ. considering that the lord hath committed the government of the church/ unto our Saviour christ/ and that otherwise there should be two heads of it/ whereof one were not under another: which is absurd. But he is not an under/ and subordinate head off christ/ considering that his authority cometh from God simply/ and immediately/ even as our Saviour Christ's: and therefore not the head off the church.  
To this disputation pertaineth that which the D. else where 
Divis. 19 Pag. 310. Pag. 630.  in synuateth/ off the Magistrate comprised, albeit not expressed in the 12. 1. Corinth. under the word governements: but in an other treatise more plainly. in the first place to hale in the Archbishop/ in the second to thrust out the elders: which notwithstanding is easily refuted by the same place. for if the civil magistrate should be comprehended under that word of government/ and be one of the officers of the church there mentioned: it should follow that he should be an under officer/ not only to the Apostles/ but also to Prophets/ and Doctors. For S. Paul putteth these as the principallest ministries in the church: as the degrees of first, second, and third declare. But I think the D. will not make him under officer to all these: therefore he is not comprehended under that division/ but is of an other sort of officers. Secondly it should follow/ that Christian magistrates were in that time/ it being granted that the offices there reckoned/ were already in the church. But the D. saith/ that there were then no Christian magistrates: it followeth therefore by his own words/ that the magistrate could neither be expressed/ nor contained in those words. if it be said that although the D. say there were none/ yet I/ and the truth it self say otherwise: I answer that all the gifts/ and offices there reckoned/ were not only then/ but were then most plentiful. Considering therefore that the Christian magistrate/ was then a gift more rare then at other times after: it can not be that he is comprehended under that words Upon all which it falleth/ that the Magistrate is head off the church as Andreas saith/ in respect off that he exerciseth the sword. Likewise it goeth to ground which the D. putteth/ that by the same reason the magistrate is head off the comen wealth next under God, he may be also head off the church. Which is a gross petition of the principle/ being nothing but the contrary off that I set down.  
That out of chrysostom/ that certain women were head off the church of Philippos, will not serve: considering that he speaketh not of any cheifdome in power/ or authority/ but off excellency 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  in godliness/ and zeal. And the greek word he useth signifying also a sum/ needeth not to be taken in signification of head: but that Chrysost. meaning was/ that in those women/ there was as it were a sum of the church/ in whose godly virtues/ a man might behold the estate of the whole. Nay it can not but with great violence there signify a head/ for than he should have said/ they were heads of the church: and not head. And if it should: yet it must be understanded/ that head there is to say the chief of the women of that church: which is nothing to purpose. for I am sure it was not Chrysost. mind to prefer them to the bishops/ etc. The cavil also that the magistrate being but a member of the church, is not thereby barred from being head: is unworthy answer/ 
In def. Apol. part. 6▪ cap. 4. Divis. 2. Daniel 10. 13. Colos. 1. 16.  seeing it is manifest off what members I spoke: and the Bishop of Salisbury speaketh even in the same words.  
If it be said/ that the magistrates honour is touched here: I answer that then the Angels themselves are dishonoured/ which having government of kingdoms/ and nations/ add also of the churches which they serve: have not/ nor ought as I have showed to have/ the title of head off the church. Nay those which go about to gratify Prince's/ with the spoil off our Saviour christ/ are found dishonorers of them: as those which leave them no place in the church of Christ. for if the magistrate be head of the church of Christ/ which is within his dominion them he is none of it. For all that church maketh the body of Christ/ and every one of the church fulfilleth the place of one member of the body. So that he that is not of the body/ can have no place in the church. if it be further said that he hath injury/ considering that he bringeth such singular comfort/ and profit unto the church/ establishing the pureness of religion/ overthrowing the corruptions/ repressing sin/ crowning virtue: beside the weight of glory which attendeth for good Princes in the life to come/ and that they are honoured with most honourable names/ which ought more then content the most excellent servants of God/ which are but simple creatures: it must be also considered/ that as the godly magistrate being head of the common wealth/ bringeth singular commodity unto the church: so do the godly pastors/ which be the church officers/ bring singular fruit unto the comen wealth. For whilst they conquer by the word/ riot/ adultery/ covetousness/ pride/ idleness/ etc. whereby diseases/ beggary/ translations off inheritance from the right heirs/ needles dearthes'/ seditions/ rebellion's (whereof every one is an engine able to pull down the comen wealth): they may be well called the horse/ and chariot of the comen wealth. But yet as the pastors can not therefore be said/ officers of the comen wealth: no more can the magistrate/ which by vertwe of his civil office giveth singular assistance unto the church/ be called properly the church officer. If (as I see) it like some to call magistrates a kind of officers in the church/ because they being members/ by public calling 
Bez. confess ca 5. artic. 23.  procure the quiet thereof: they which are disposed may so speak/ I will not strive. But why I esteem the title of head of the church/ not to agreed unto any simple creature/ etherin heaven/ or earth/ I have showed my reasons/ let the church judge.  
The question is not whether the name of Archbishop is/ but whether it ought to be continued: and if the continuance of it in our 
Diuis. 5. pag. 302.  church/ draw such credit/ the putting down of it in all other church's throughout Christendom/ must needs bring great prejudice. But it is lawful: therein is the question. Which although he hath often affirmed: yet we are come to an end of the decision of this question by the scriptures/ and no word brought to confirm it. Wherein either he is little beholding to his cause/ which will minister him nothing to say: or his cause to him which leaveth it thus destitute. For unless the reasons against it should be insufficient: yet if he would have this title continue in the church/ he should have by showing the lawfulness of it out of the word/ both persuaded those which have an evil opinion of it/ and confirmed them which waver. For the sixth divis. let the judgement be the readers. Before I come unto the 7. I will for the cause alleged in the beginning off this treatise/ take in here the residue of the 20. of S. Math.  
Your translation the kings of the Gentiles, whereby you would 
pag 62.  prove that he putteth not a difference between the civil/ and ecclesiastical power/ is faulty: as that which without necessity/ goeth from the proper signification of the word. For it signifieth 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gen. 10. 31. 32. Deut. 32. 28. Psal. 43. 1. Math. 28. 19 Act. 10. 35. Luk. 7. 5.  naturally/ not the Gentiles/ but simply any nation/ in which signification it is taken often in the old/ and new testament: and not only when the Israelites are joined together with other nations/ but even when the holy ghost speaketh of the jews a part/ he calleth them by the same word here used. Therefore it appeareth/ that there is neither any such meaning of the evangelists: and if there were/ yet he gaineth nothing. For it is easy to answer that he therefore maketh mention off the Princes of the Gentiles/ forasmuch as there was no King/ nor sovereign civil principality amongst the jews. whereupon our Saviour was compelled/ to take example off princely authority from the Gentiles. And if there were any small fragments of civil government in the jews hands: it was the high priests/ and other ecclesiastical persons. Which beside that it was bastard/ and degenerate from the institution of God: it was both more ambitiously sought (as may appear by the ecclesiastical stories) and more tyranically administered/ as appeareth in scriptures/ then any the most disordered 
Act. 4. 3. & 5. 1. etc. & 9 1. 2.  government amongst the Heathen. So that if our Saviour would have set forth a patron of ambition/ and tyranny in government: he needed not have sought it amongst the Gentiles/ when he had it at home.  
It may be said further/ that he taking his example of the civil dominion of the Gentills/ would thereby pull out of the people's heads/ that fond opinion amongst them/ and the rest of jews: that they at the coming off the Messiah/ should be Emperors of all the world/ and all the Gentills be their subjects. Especially considering this petition off the sons off Zebedy/ was grounded off that idlephansie. And if need required/ it were not hard to bring examples off divers Kings/ and principal magistrates amongst the Gentiles/ which both came unto their government modestly/ and used it with all equity/ and commodity of the subjects; as of the contrary part divers of the Kings amongst the jews/ whose entry hath not been so honest/ nor government so easy. upon which considerations it may appear/ that there was an other reason off making mention of the Gentiles Math. 6. then in this place. Last of all/ there is nothing answered to the example of our Saviour Christ/ which doth manifestly ovethrow the D. interpretation. For when as it is certain/ that examples are brought to explain the rules which go before/ and in the example our Saviour Christ opposeth ministering unto others/ to this to be ministered unto by others: it must needs follow/ that the place which went before/ must be understanded simply of dominion/ and not tyrannical dominion. for if the example had been sitting unto M. D. meaning: he should have said/ as I came not tyrannically to be ministered unto/ or ambitiously to desire it/ but modestly to rule.  
The distinction also of the Magistrate/ and off the minister/ wherein the weight of this cause lieth/ is not touched. This division of dominion, is altogether idle. for it is plain that when I say the civil Magistrate is severed by bearing dominion/ from the ecclesiastical person: I meant lawful. and when as I deny/ that the ecclesiastical person can exercise any dominion at all: what place is there left to this division? for what dominion soever he had proved/ to have been lawful for an ecclesiastical person/ had been sufficient overthrow of that I set down. And as the division is superfluous: so it is unskilful. For the two first parts/ the rule with oppression, and the rule described 1. Sam. 8. be all one: and the last member comprehendeth all that go before. And so it is not only no good division/ but no division a● all. Neither is he any happier in applying off it. for where my second proposition was/ that the ecclesiastical person is severed from the civil by bearing dominion: he saith/ that is true in the two first significations. Whereby must follow/ that either it is lawful for the civil magistrate to rule with oppression/ or else for the Bishop. For if it be lawful for neither of them: them one is not severed from the other/ in those kinds of dominion. The last section of the 62. page/ etc. pertaining altogether unto the question off bishops bearing civil offices. I will put over unto the proper place. Here the question is only/ what belongeth to the minister in respect off his ecclesiastical ministry.  
The authority of man in God's cause/ weigheth no further than weight is given by reason. Therefore you should not prejudice the exposition of this place/ by Bucers' judgement: especially/ considering it hath counterpois/ of other as learned. Howbeit although Bucer followed an other interpretation than we: yet it shall appear he meant nothing less/ than thereby to approve any of this stately Lordlines used of our bishops/ and that he is in this cause ours. As for his interpretation/ for my part although I confess that Princes in providing for the peoples under them/ do after a sort serve them: yet I deny that our S. Christ meant to note here/ Princes duties in their government. And first the circumstance of the place doth confute it. For when as the disciples gaping after worldly rule/ depended of the opinion conceived/ that our S. Christ should be a great king upon earth: it is apparent that his answer/ that he came to be a minister and to serve, was to overthrow that fantasy of theirs. as if he should say/ you look to be Lords under me/ and I myself came not to be a lord/ or Prince: wherefore your desire of rule under me/ is in vain. And if this be the natural sense of those words: than it is manifest/ that this word of ministering/ being opposed unto the state of a Prince/ this sentence can by no means agreed unto civil magistrates.  
Further/ when he calleth his disciples to the imitation of his service/ and ministry (him self being a minister of the gospelly: it is clear/ that he speaketh of such a ministry/ as can not agreed unto the civil magistrate. This may yet better appear/ by the adjoints/ or cleavinge knit unto the ministry: which being such as can not agreed to the civil Magistrate/ it followeth that these words can not be understanded off both governements. For our S. Christ in his mynistry/ did not only serve unto others/ but was as a servant: and did not only minister/ but was as a minister/ that is to say carried the face/ and countenance of a servant/ in apparel/ in diet/ in obedience unto the civil Magistrate. Whereunto the Apostle hath regard/ when he saith/ that our Saviour took the shape/ and form off a servant. But Prince's although they serve 
Philip. 2. 7.  the profit off their peoples: yet they neither carry/ neither is it meet they should carry/ the form/ and shape off servants/ either in apparel/ or diet/ or any part off civil behaviour▪ but contrariwise it standeth with the ordinance of God/ that they should have some outward mark of excellency/ above the rest.  
Moreover in that our Saviour Christ/ declareth that the cheiftye of the disciples shall never be so great in the church/ but that the highest shall be servant unto the rest: it must needs be that he meaneth an other kind of service/ then can agreed unto the civil Magistrate. For although he be called a minister, and 
Rome 13. 4. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 13. 36 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Corin. 45. Psal 2. 11. & 18. 1.  public officer of God for the profit of the people/ and it be said that David did minister unto the age wherein he lived: yet that the holy ghost doth ever call them servants of their people/ as he saith here his disciples shall be/ it can not be showed. for this word servant/ which our Saviour Christ attributeth unto his disciples/ and S. Paul used in saying that he was the Corinthians servant, signifieth a lower/ and more humble kind of service then the other: and is never attributed (as I think) unto the civil Magistrate in respect off his subjects/ but only in respect off his subjection unto the Lord. Whereupon followeth/ that forsomuch as our Saviour Christ speaketh here/ of a more humble service then can fall into the Majesty of the civil Magistrate towards his people. this place can not be understanded off the civil government.  
That in the end hath also force/ that whereas the Evangelists speaking off principality/ and greatness which the Magistrate hath over his subjects/ use with full consent the word Prince: when they come to describe the superiority/ and greatness which 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  our Savi. Christ will have in his ministers/ they also with full consent abstain from it/ being proper (as I have showed) to the Magistrate: and set in place thereof a leader, a word off less authority/ 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb 13 7.  and by th'apostle ascribed unto ministers. Where if he had meant in that later part/ to have described the duty of the civil magistrate: he would by all likelihood have kept the same word/ saying/ whosoever amongst you shallbe Prince/ shall be as your servant. Therefore it is evident/ that our Saviour meant this sentence off the ministry of the word/ and not of Magistrates.  
I know well you say this place is fitly alleged against the Pope, 
Divis 2. pag. 64.  and that in words you thrust him far away/ whom in deed you cause to approach. But forasmuch as your words serving against the Pope/ your reasons are for him: and that his person being changed/ his cause is still defended: it behoved me to look/ not so much at your defiance in words/ as at that maintenance which the course of your disputation bringeth unto him. And let it be now considered/ whether your tongue being with the Bishop/ your hand be not with Harding. He to prove that the Pope may exercise both civil/ and ecclesiastical jurisdiction/ 
In the def. off the Apol. part 6. c. 11. diuis. 4. 5.  bringeth forth the example of Moses both priest, and Prince. The Bishop to confute that/ allegeth this text of S. Matthew. which if it put not a difference between the office of a Prince/ and of a minister (as you say it doth not): then hath the Bishop answered nothing. For the question is not there/ whether the Pope may tyranously/ or ambitiously either seek after/ or exercise civil jurisdiction: but whether he may exercise any at all. Neither is the question/ whether the Pope may exercise that authority as a thing belonging unto himself/ or of the grant off Princes. For than his rule should be avouched good in some times/ when the Emperors have willingly submitted themselves/ with their sceptres unto the pleasure off Popes. As for his reigning in men's consciences, it peteineth not to this place. So that if the D. answer be good: then this place which the Bishop allegeth/ maketh nothing against the Pope's civil sword/ provided that he seek it not, and that he have it of the kings grant. Which how contrary it is to the Bishop's meaning/ may easily appear by that which followeth.  
If therefore he agreed with the bishop (as he saith): he must allow 
Defence. Apol. ib.  off these words of Cyprian/ Christ by several duties, and distinct honours, hath here set a difference between both the powers. And then doth Bucers' authority fail him: who thinketh that those offices are not distinguished in those words (it shall not be so with you). and then also is he goen from his strongest hold/ that our Saviour Christ, did only discern between the affections: when as it is said/ that he discerned between the offices. Moreover then must he allow off Bernardes' saying: it is plain that temporal dominion is forbidden the Apostles, now therefore thou being Pope how darest thou usurp either the Apostleship being a prince, or the Princehood, being successor of the Apostle? doubtless from the one of them thou art forbidden, etc. And if he allow off this: then falleth he from his cunning distinction/ off having it ambitiously, and by election. For considering that Bernarde saith/ he is forbidden it/ and speaketh not there against the abuse/ but against the use of dominion in a bishop: it followeth that dominion neither falleth into a bishop/ in that he is a bishop: nor can be received of him/ being offered off the civil Magistrate. The reader therefore may see/ that the exposition you follow off this place/ doth quite overthrow the bishops answer/ and openeth the Papists mouth which he had stopped.  

* Divis. 3. Pa 65. etc.  If this cause should be tried by authority/ you could gain nothing. Not only Caluin/ jewel with the ancient fathers which he allegeth/ but 
a 57 serm in Apoc. 5. Dec. 2. serm.  Bulling. 
b Praef. in Eccles.  Zuing. 
c Upon the place & 1 Act.  Gualther with a a number of 
d Melan. ut apparet 9 × 16. cont. Pighij. d Heming as appeareth 419 pa. alleged in my former book.  others/ do expound it as I have done: and prove by those places off the Evangelists in plain words/ that there is no superiority of one minister over an other/ and that with fuller words than Caluin useth. And even the very same word majority, which you say in the margin of the text/ is proved by these places: Bullinger affirmeth to be overtrowen by the same. As for you/ albeit you pretend Musculus, etc. yet in very deed these answers which you make/ be taken properly out of 
f 5. li. Hierar. 5. c. & 8. & 16. cont. de potest. eccles.  Pigghius: which hath all those corners/ reasons/ and shifts/ almost word for word/ as you have couched them here in this treatise.  
I report me whether I have spoken to the meaning or no: you have mustered them by first, second, third, I will also answer them severally. And to the first I answer/ that although our Savi. Christ said not, no man ought to be great amongst you: yet he said as much. for when he saith/ the greatest shallbe as the lest, he that is first, as servant to all: he fetching down the greatest to the lest/ and making the cheiftie amongst them a service unto them all: taketh away all dominion of one over an other. This reason I having answered before/ was unneedful to be here repeated. so remaineth for him to prove/ that if our Saviour Christ had meant to take away all dominion off the Apostles, one over an other: then he would have said, no man ought to be great amongst you, and that there was no other way to give out this sense but this. The second concludeth/ that our Saviour had no meaning to take away superiors amongst Christians, nothing to this question. For no man denieth/ but there ought to be superiors. As for that he interlaceth off Peter● cheifty: it is answered afterward.  
The similitudes he useth/ can not win his superiority off one minister over an other. For as for heavenly bodies, unless one of them be more excellent than an other: yet they exercise no dominion one over an other. Therefore if it prove any thing: it proveth that excellency of gifts amongst ecclesiastical persons/ doth not lift them up in authority/ and commandment one over an other: but only maketh a difference in order/ and comeliness. Which we have showed in the beginning to be in ecclesiastical ministry: where we willingly receive order/ opposed to confusion: refusing dominion opposed unto subjection. For the heavenly spirits. what will you allege to prove/ that they have dominion one over an other? The place of the Ephesians/ thrones, dominions, principalities, powers? if you do: it is boldier than Augustine durst do. But if they be superior one to an other: that superiority is 
Enchi. 58 ca  answered in the church by superiority of ministers over the people. If they be severed in orders one from an other: that is not denied to be in officers of the church. If they exercise dominion one over an other: that is expressed in comen wealths. So that if the Answ. were able to prove all these/ which will be hard for him without Denyses' dreams: yet he may see they conclude not a dominion/ off one minister over an other. The third reason likewise/ concludeth not against this cause: and to these two reasons I answered at large. Which if the Ans. would have taken away: he ought to have showed/ that there can be no superiority of one over an other in the church/ unless one minister be superior to another. but that he passeth slily by/ and picketh a quarrel unto the examples.  
To his exception against the first example/ that there is inequality amongst servants: I answer there is none/ but by the masters express appointment. And therefore if he will have advantage thereof: he must prove that it is the lords ordinance/ that one minister should rule over an other. beside that/ it is enough to maintain mine answer/ off equality of servants in a family/ that it is so for the most part: and when my meaning was of servants left in one/ and the same order/ it is out of time to allege this example. Secondly the inequality there made/ is not of one steward over an other/ but over the family which he ministereth unto: and therefore this similitude maketh to show/ that one minister is not ruler over an other/ but every minister ruler of his flock. Thirdly that similitude of government of the steward, Math. 24. being propounded as a picture to set forth the rule off ministers over their flocks: declareth not only how there ought no government to be erected in the church/ but by commandment of God: but also how far it ought to be from that absolute dominion/ or lordly pomp/ which the Answ. would bring in. which Musc. a great man with the D. declareth/ when he saith: He speaketh after the comen fashion: for this was the office of the principal servant, to give every man his diet: he was not 
Upon 24. Math.  appointed to be lord of others.  
As for his exception against my other example/ of equality of brethren: the inequality which the scripture maketh between the elder brother, and the rest, is nothing less than any rule/ or authority to command them: but only a reverence which the younger ought to bear to the elder/ which we willingly grant amongst the ministry/ that the younger men give place to the grey hears off the elder. Thother pre-eminence off having two parts off the goods, whereof the younger brethren had but one/ is no matter of inequality in authority/ whereof only we speak: wherein also we will not deny/ but one minister according to his charge off children/ may have greater portion than other. And both these exceptions are not taken against my allegation so much/ as against the godly writers of our time. Which to prove the equality of authority of the bishop of Rome/ with other bishops: have alleged that they called one an other brethren, that they were fellow servants.  
Dominion here forbidden (saith the Ans.) is not of one minister over an other, but over the people: wherein he is greatly deceived. For our Sau. Christ speaking to his 12. disciples according to S. Math. saith whosoever shall be great amongst you, shall be your minister, and whosoever amongst you shall be first, shall be your servant: restraining their service off each of them/ unto the residue of their fellows. Again the circumstance in S. Math. and Marck/ that the other ten disdained at the two brethren, and which S. Luke expresseth/ that the contention was amongst the 12. which of them might seem to be greatest: do manifestly overthrow that saying. For if they had not desired to be above the residue of their fellows: there had been no cause off disdaigne. And the strife was not/ what government they should use over the people: but which amongst themselves should be greatest. Whereupon unless we will say/ that our Savi. Christ laid his plaster beside the sore/ and spoke from the purpose off that the cause required: it must be confessed/ that this dominion forbidden/ is in respect off one minister over an other.  
Whereby him that sitteth at the table, he would have the people understanded: he is grossly overseen. for so by the testimony of our S. Christ/ the people should be greater than he himself: seeing he affirmeth/ that he which sitteth is greater than he which waiteth. For noting the dignity of a minister/ by that usually annexed unto masters/ to sit at the table while their servants wait: he teacheth that forsomuch as he their master/ to whom it appertained to sit/ and be waited upon/ was unto them rather as a servant waiting/ then a master sitting at the table: much more they being fellows/ should serve one an other. Where you charge me for not truly translating the greek word: I appeal to the masters 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  of that tongue/ whether I have followed the natural etymology. Where you add that it signifieth the chief ruler, or guide in every business: I acknowledge you for no Lexicon/ and being in controversy/ it ought to have been proved. Stephen doth affirm that 
In this Thesau.  they which translate it a prince, have no ground that he can tell off. What cheifty S. Peter had amongst theresidue of the Apostles/ shallbe considered in a more fit place: it shall be sufficient here to have noted/ that the Ans. exposition off the word/ first is the same with hardings: and my exposition which he here confuteth/ alone with the bishops which he confirmeth by good arguments/ where he denieth that S. Peter was Prince of the 
Artic 4. diuis. 31.  Apostles/ or Lord over them/ or had power/ or dominion over them. Then it overthroweth Musculus. For where he saith that Peter was found in many places to have been chief amongst the rest: the D. by this exposition/ maketh him chief simply in all places. Thus it may appear/ that your cause findeth small harting at Musc. hand.  
You say my exposition is contrary to the truth, and judgement of the learned: but you show only that it agreeth not with certain 
Diuis. 4. pag. 69.  interpreters judgement/ that the truth is otherwise/ you show not. If you had showed the first/ that it is contrary to the truth: the second had been needles. I propounded that doubtfully/ and although that signification of the preposition hath good warrant out of the use off that tongue: yet I will not stand at the arms and/ with so learned interpreters for it. Howbeit when I give place/ yet S. Luke may not give back: who using the simple verbs without the preposition/ maketh manifest that there is no perverseness/ or deformity of government noted. for if he should mean to set forth a perverseness/ or deformity of government/ and having so many words to do it with/ yet did not: I can not see how he should have been void off some fault. Where you say he must be expounded by tother Evangelists: that can by no means be admitted. For it cometh often to pass in the greek tongue/ that compound verbs are put for simples: but that simples have a compound signification/ the use off that tongue will not suffer. For the use off the word in the Acts, and S. Peter: beside that it is not strange for one word in scripture/ to be taken diversly: that place maketh nothing to prove this signification. For what word soever S. Luke had used in the Acts: yet forsomuch as that action came from those unclean spirits/ it must needs be disordered. Therefore the perverseness of it/ doth not appear in the word/ but in the subject from whence it came.  
And if a man would make that word to signify a deformity/ because that rule was beyond measure: by the same reason the words Prince/ Rule/ Power/ names off lawful authority/ should be condemned: For that a scribed unto Devils/ 
joh. 14. 30. 6. Ephes. 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  they are always tyrannical. And Beza also here alleged/ in that place saith/ the word noteth not any dominion there, but only that they got the upper hand of those exorcists: which when it may be taken aswell in good part/ as in the evil: the Answ. can by no means help himself therewith. For that off Saint Peter/ where he saith it is manifest that it signifieth violent dominion: I grant that that rule which it signifieth/ is violent in a Pastor/ but that which is violent in him over his flock/ is moderate/ and lawful in a Prince over his subjects. and so S. Peter kept the same distinction of government of the civil Magistrate/ and the Minister/ which he had learned off our Saviour Christ. For if he meant by that word/ a dominion simply tyrannical: he would have opposed it unto a moderate dominion/ not as he did unto being an example of the flock. As if he should say/ you must not bear dominion over your flocks as Princes/ which with divers notes of their magnificence get authority over their subjects: but you not having these means/ to get reverence and authority amongst your flocks/ must so much the more enforce your selves/ to all commendable example of life.  
Whereunto agreeth that which Saint Paul writeth unto Timothe: whom he exhorteth to keep up his authority in the 
1. Tim. 4. 12.  church/ and deliver himself from contempt which his youth was subject unto/ by being a patron off good works unto his church. And Beza in that place/ saying by those words care, and no kingdom is committed unto ministers, and that by that place it appeareth, that Pastors may not bear rule over their flocks, after the manner of kings: doth sufficiently declare/ that the word doth not signify simply a tyrannical dominion/ but one such as agreeing unto kings/ is notwithstanding unfitting for Pastors. For he saith kingdom/ and Kings: not Tyranny/ nor tyrants/ which he ought to have said/ if he would have confirmed your interpretation. Beside that Stephen putteth both the simple/ and compound to 
In his Thes.  signify one thing: that is/ a simple dominion without any such tail of tyranny/ as is here imagined.  
You may deny if you will that the snow is white. By (all these places) must needs be understanded those which Musc. of whom you speak/ doth interpret: but your self had said 
In 1. diui. off this chap.  before/ that he expoundeth those three of S. Math. Marck/ and Luke: therefore although you added not three, yet that must needs be understanded. And in this your shift you break your grammars head: seeing Aristotle teacheth that the numbered of three, is the least numbered that this word all can be verified off. 
Lib. 1. de coelo 1. c.  Where you said Christ did not say no man shall be great amongst them: my answer was that he had said that before, and needed not to repeat it, whereunto you answer nothing. The place I alleged out of S. Luke/ overthroweth your answer. For if by these words whosoever will be great, desire off dominion had been only found fault with: then he would not have spoken simply/ whosoever amongst you, without adding any thing of ambition/ or desire to rule: and to this you answer nothing/ but cover your self only with Musc. authority. For where you say/ you spoke as the words be▪ you understand well that they do not specify any ambition/ which you must needs mean/ or else you maintain not your answer. Where you say, S. Luke's words make against me, as which insinuate that there must be some great amongst them: you take it otherwise then it is. For if you will not admit the interpretation I alleged/ in referring this greatness unto excellency of gifts one above an other: nor Cal. interpretation savoureth not in your taste, that it is as much as if our Saviour should say, your greatness, excellency, and dignity shallbe, in submitting your selves unto you brethren: yet you will not refuse Bucer/ whom you here build upon. which by great in this place/ understandeth him that is elder in age: and proveth it by the word 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  younger, opposed to him. And it is not unlike but one of those reasons/ whereby some of those disciples would have grounded their principality over other their fellows/ was for that they were ancienter in years. Which soever of these expositions you admit: you see that to be great here/ signifieth nothing less/ then any dominion of one minister over another.  
First the Ans. saith/ that I go about to prove that our Saviour 
Divis. 5. Pag. 70.  Christ doth not reprove th'ambition of his disciples: which is a manifest untruth. For I say that he doth reprove it/ and give also larger place to the reproof of their ambition/ then he. for where he would have it to consist only in that they ambitiously desired to rule over their fellows: I affirm that he did not only take them up for that/ but also that they desired to rule one over an other/ which was not lawful. Secondly he saith/ I have falsified his words, in that I father of him that our Saviour reprehended only th'ambition of his disciples. which I do not/ for my words ascribe unto him that he said/ they were reproved not only for desire off rule/ but for rule to oppress. Then to maintain this quarrel/ he affirmeth he said/ our Saviour reproveth the tyrannical rule off kings of the Gentills: as although that made any thing to prove/ that he did in his disciples only reprove ambition. For reproof of oppression in kings: was not part off reprehension of the disciples.  
Moreover he could not be ignorant by the course of disputation/ that when I said/ if ambition only were reprehended in the disciples: I meant that, if our S. Christ had forbidden his disciples ambitious desire off rule one over an other, and not rule itself: which doth manifestly touch the cause. Thus partly with a manifest untruth/ partly with a trifling cavil/ which (if it were true) maketh neither whoat/ nor kold: it seemeth he would have cast a mist before his reader's eyes/ that he should not see him give the slip from my first argument in this divis. For unto this reason/ that in that sense off the place which he setteth down, the answer of our Saviour Christ should not have benefit: considering the Disciples might have replied, that he forbade tyrannical rule of their inferiors, but they desired moderate, and well ruled government: he answereth not a word. To his answer unto the second reason/ that they are called bountiful, which have no sparck of bountifulness: I reply that although that may sometimes come to pass/ yet it should have been out of time/ to have made mention of it here in that sense. For if as you say/ our Saviour speak here against the tyranny, and ambition of Princes: than it was out of place to make mention off the flattery of their subjects/ which call them by the title off bountiful. For that is rather the fault of the subjects/ then off the Princes. If you say that they desire that title: first the words of S. Luke do not bear it out: for he saith they are called gracious Lords/ and not they desire to be so called. Then it being a thing not simply unlawful/ for a Prince to desire to be called/ and counted bountiful/ to this end that by that fame men might be more serviceable: although it should be granted to you/ that S. Luke meant that they desire that title: yet forasmuch as there is no stain of ambition/ or tyranny in that desire/ you are still behind with your answer.  
For your example of the Pope called most holiest, etc. it is nothing like. For men deceived by error/ call him so: and although they say untruly/ yet they speak as they think/ which can not be in this case, considering that no man can be abused by a false opinion of his bountifulness/ which not only giveth not/ but is an oppressor. And although as there are found which knowing the wickedness of the Pope/ call him notwithstanding most holy: so there be which knowing the illiberality of their Prince's/ call them notwithstanding bountiful: yet you should have considered/ that S. Luke speaketh not here/ how Princes are called off certain particular persons: but by what titles they are called generally/ of all their subjects. So that if you would have spokê to purpose/ you should have showed/ that it is a comen thing for tyrants/ to be called generally of their subjects whom they pill/ bountiful: and that which is harder for you to do/ that men will call ministers bountiful/ which give nothing. Otherwise the interpretation which you imagine/ hath no place.  
To my third reason/ that it is not to be thought off all the Apostles, that they desired rule one over another, to the end they might use cruelty, and oppression over their fellows: he answereth not a word. It may be as I have showed/ gathered off the scripture/ which is not expressed in it: else how take you upon you to set down/ that the 10. were as ambitious in disdaining, as the 2. were in desiring, seeing that is not expressed? If I be deceived, in thinking that those greek words be all one: I am deceived with the 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hesychius.  Grecians/ for so I have read. And if your authority were any in this case/ yet it is suspected: and therefore needed better proof/ then your bore word. and albeit it were true/ that the one hath sometime a more larger use, than the other: yet hereit appeareth/ that the indignation of these Apostles was such/ as Aristotle defineth tother word by: that is/ conceived off an opinion they had, that those 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  two were not worthy to rule over them.  
The words of our Saviour Christ in the 20. of S. Math. etc. are spoken unto the 12. only/ whom he had set apart for the 
Chap. 24 Divis. 1. Pag. 72.  ministery of the gospel: but his words S. Math. 23. are spoken not only unto them/ but unto the comen people. whereupon it followeth/ that our Saviour joining the people with his disciples/ in the dehortations which he maketh here: could not as in the other place/ where he speaketh unto them alone/ speak off the proper lists/ and bounds of the ministery: and therefore there is no cause why M. should be glad, that I agreed with him in the exposition off Math. 23. Further/ Math. 20. making comparison between the 12. disciples/ and Princes: here so far as toucheth the disciples/ he maketh comparison between them/ and other ecclesiastical ministers. There being therefore things in the state of a commendable Prince/ which agreed not unto the ministry of the gospel: it followeth that he may be well thowght/ there not only to have forbidden the disciples ambition/ damnable in both estates: but also those things/ which being commendable in Princes/ agreed not unto them. of the other side/ all things commendable in the pharisees ministry Ecclesiastical/ agreeing likewise to theirs: it followeth of necessity/ that there he must needs speak against ambition only. Unto the next divis. being reproaches/ I answer not: only where he chargeth me with falsehood, because I affirm he saith/ the book off comen prayer is a perfect rule to govern the church of England by/ where nothing is wanting/ or to much: I answer that there be not the same words/ but when there is nothing he will acknowledge to be off the order of the book/ which he maintaineth not/ and refuseth to have added things which have their ground off the word: I leave to the reader to judge/ whether although my words are with the fullest/ yet I am far from his meaning.  
Now I return again to his 8 Tract. The Ans. skoffing upon my unskilfulness in logic/ saith he can find neither head, nor foot 
Diuis. 7. pag 303.  in my reason. Thus I will find both. They which deny the lawfulness of john's ministry/ because there was no such ministery contained in the scriptures/ thowght no ministery lawful/ not contained in them: but the Scribes/ and Levites did so: therefore they esteemed no ministery lawful/ not contained in scripture. Against this he taketh exception/ first to the translation/ which is altogether frivolous. for beside that both the words may bear that signikication/ and it is not unlike but by the article/ the Evangelist meant not some one singular Prophet/ spoken of in the law beside the Messiah/ but rather any Prophet extraordinary/ to whom the Lord showed himself/ either by vision/ or dream: 
Nom. 12. 6.  the interpretation which he citeth out of Beza/ altereth not the argument/ but rather strenghtheneth it/ noting thereby that it was necessary not only to have the function of a Prophet: but of one which was especially noted/ and marked out by the scripture. Secondly where he saith/ that if they had asked john whether he had been a Prophet, he would not have denied it, and addeth for proof thereof/ our Saviour Christ said he was one: he is abused. for our Saviour saying that he was greater than a prophet, and that the 
Math. 11. ●. 13.  Prophets endured until john's coming, denieth that he was a Prophet/ and maketh his ministery a mean function between the function of a Prophet/ and ministery of the gospel: more excellent than the first/ and inferior to the other. If he would have had a colour of his defence/ he should rather have cited his father's saying of him/ which calleth him the Prophet of the highest: 
1. Luk. 76.  but that could not have served the turn neither/ For that the word is there taken generally/ for those which teach the will of God: which is often as hath been showed.  
Your third exception/ that all the functions are not reckoned up, because they ask him not whether he was a Priest, or Levite: is as vain as the rest for therefore they ask him not/ because he taught not being consecrated unto any of them/ according to the ecclesiastical order provided in that behalf: and that was one occasion off this embassage unto john. Last of all/ where in the margin he saith/ that the pharisees made false arguments, and that I do the same: he speaketh unadvisedly. for howsoever there was otherwise great ignorance in them: yet that their reason was good herein/ it appeareth by that S. john to prove his ministery lawful/ brought testimony thereof out of the scripture: and for that our 
1. joh. 23. Mat. 21. 25  Saviour Christ/ meaning to confirm the ministery of john/ asketh whether it were from heaven/ or off men. In which words condemning all ministries which men institute/ and that come not from heaven: he confirmeth the Parises argument/ which was that john exercising a ministry not ordained by the law/ should have been guilty of breach of the law/ if he could not have showed some extraordinary vocation. Thus appeareth that there was both bead, and foot in this argument: and that by all likelihood true/ which he could not impugn but by untruth. The 8. and 9 divis. which follow/ have (as commonly the rest) nothing but bore sayings: which because I shall meet withal again/ I will here pass over▪ only in the eight it is to be noted/ that he saith it is servile to tie the church of Christ to the patron of the jews synagogue. Wherein either he saith nothing/ or he would have understanded more/ then he dare veter. For if he mean that the church of Christ may not be in all ordinances/ and ceremonies conformable to that off the jews: it maketh nothing to the purpose. but if he mean that the church hath now more liberty in adding ministries/ then the jews had/ as his answer to that I set down doth require: then I see no cause why he should not have so said. But that although he would say/ yet he durst not: and therefore spa●● thus uncertainly/ that when I should show the contrary: he in this general speech/ might have some corner to hide him in.  
seeing I must needs prove that the crow is black/ that is 
Divis 10. pag. 304.  to say/ tharchbishopric a new ministery/ thus it is proved. That which hath divers efficient causes/ is an other/ and divers: but there are divers efficient causes of the ministery of th'archbishop/ and those expressed in the word off God. That there are divers efficient causes/ is manifest: for that the office of Bishop/ Elder/ and Deacon being by God himself/ the office of th'archbishop/ was devised/ and brought in by man. And although this be proof enough/ to them that have their senses exercised in the holy scripture/ where in the ministery oftentimes they are called strangers/ which have not their offices limited by the 
Nomb. 18 4.  prescript of God's word: yet that it may appear how little modesty there is in this strong denial/ I will add others. Whereas a Bishop may be ordained by two/ or three other Bishops: th'archbishop must be ordained by all the Bishops of the province/ either present/ or at the lest consenting. Now seeing the ordination is off the form off their ministery/ and these formal causes be divers: it followeth that these offices must needs be divers. And that the substantial/ and essential form of a Bishop/ is different from that of th'archbishop/ it is plain also by that they are members of one division/ and therefore of necessity differ in the substantial form: as a man differeth from a brute beast/ not in circumstance/ but in that he is off an other nature. And when the D. granteth the effects/ and works off th'archbishop/ to be divers from those of the Bishop/ the one ruling/ tother obeying/ and that by oath given and taken: it seemeth very strange/ that he should deny that it is a new/ and divers office from those appointed in the scripture.  
Furthermore/ when as the subjects of the Bishop/ and Archbishop be divers/ where about they be occupied/ the one having one church/ or to speak according to his sense/ one Diocese/ tother a whole province: still it must fall out/ that they are divers offices. Last of all/ forasmuch as offices in the scripture/ be perpetual/ and th'office of an Archbishop may be taken away by men (by his own confession): it must follow/ that they be divers offices. And if he look when I should conclude a new minissale: beside that it is all new which is strange/ and strange which is not commanded by the word of God: it coming as shall appear some hundredth years after the Apostles times/ whose only authority is able to make the grey hears/ and antiquity of a thing be reverenced: it followeth that this word new/ if. he nourish any mystery in it/ is also truly verified of the ministery of th'archbishop.  
Timothe, and Tite, shall never be proved to have had any such authority over the rest/ and if they had/ yet it falleth not on tharchbishops'archbishop's side: seeing they were no Bishops/ but Evangelists/ as hath appeared. When the church appointed one Bishop to rule over all Ministers, Elders, and Deacons in the same church: it did appoint a new ministery. and all these reasons almost/ before brought against the newness of tharchbishops'archbishop's functions/ return upon the head of that institution. And if there be any hold in the Ans. word/ he hath otherwhere affirmed/ that th'office of a Bishop is superior unto the office of a Pastor. if so/ it is not the same. But why dare not the D. 
pag. 137.  aswell confess/ that the church may erect a new ministry? seeing he affirmeth flatly as much in effect, for to prove an Archbishop/ he allegeth/ that beside those in the scripture/ the church may appoint both names/ and offices. now I would gladly know/ first whether when the church appointeth an office/ that was never before a new office/ or no? and than whether a new office be a new ministry? And if to erect up an office which was never/ be to erect a new office/ and a new office be a new ministry: it must follow that the church in erecting an other office/ then is set forth in scripture/ erecteth a new ministery. The Ans. is afraid to confess a new ministery/ and not afraid to confess a new office: of which superstition I would gladly understand some reason. Now where he would have the care off our Saviour over his church in time of the gospel, to consist in that he hath set down the doctrine more plainly in all points, then under the law: this being a doctrine of salvation under the law/ that there should be ministers in the church: it followeth by his own saying/ that he hath set it down more plainly in all points now/ then under the law. Therefore also this point/ how many orders/ and degrees of ministery ought to be/ considering that that was precisely defined in the law/ is more narrowly bounded in the gospel. Thus he defending more in deed/ then in words he dare set down: is almost at continual battle with himself/ and hath scarce at any time his proofs/ and propositions of one measure.  
But that I follow not the chase off words/ leaving his meaning/ where 〈◊〉 any light footing of it to be found: that which he would say/ and wherewith his purpose is upholden/ can not stand: that albeit our Saviour hath taught the doctrine more plainly now, then under the law: yet it followeth not that he hath performed that in the government of the church. If this be his meaning as I said/ there is great injury done unto the church/ great dishonour unto our Saviour Christ. For he having at all times done the office/ not only off a Doctor in teaching/ but also of a king in prescribing the manner/ and form of government unto it: howmuch soever he is said to have done less/ in appointing the outward government of his church now/ then under the law: so much is both he rob off that part off his kingly office/ which God his heavenly Father anointed him unto/ and the church spoiled of the fruit which should come unto her thereby. It is therefore a most certain doctrine/ that in all things pertaining to the kingdom of heaven/ whether in matter of doctrine/ or government/ the Lord hath in as great specialty marked them out/ as either before/ or under the law. In civil matters/ and things pertaining to this present life/ he hath I grant used a greater particularytie with them/ then amongst us/ framing laws according to the quality of that people/ and coontrey: wherein the leaving of us at greater liberty/ is so far from proving the like liberty in things pertaining to the kingdom of heaven/ that they rather prove a straighter bond. For even as when the Lord would have his favour more appear by temporal blessings of this life towards the people under the law/ then towards us/ he gave also politic laws most exactly/ whereby they might both most easily come into/ and most steadfastly remain in possession of those earthly benfites: even so at this time/ wherein he would not have his favour so much esteemed by those outward commodities/ is required that as his care in prescribing laws for that purpose/ hath somewhat fallen in leaving them to men's consultations/ which may be deceived: so his care for conduit/ and government of the life to come/ should (if it were possible) rise/ in leaving less to the order off men/ then in times past.  
And the D. should either have cut off quite/ that part off the Kingly office of Christ/ which consisteth in outward government of his church: or else have let it had the full course. Now when he granteth that beside the doctrine of salvation/ he entered into the description off outward government of the church (saying beside the doctrine he ordained there should be not only fit ministers to publish it, but officers to govern the people in godliness) as if in beginning off that description he declared his care over his church/ and not ●● making an end of it: he signifieth that he declared less care. For if to describe the three offices of government/ Bishop/ Deacon/ and Elder/ were an argument of his love/ and care towards his church: had not also the adding to off the fourth (if any were) been a token of the same? But if as the Ans. would make us believe/ the Lord declared his great care, and love more towards his church, in leaving that office at her arbitrement: than it should also follow/ that in appointing no more but the Deacon/ and Elder which governeth only/ yea in appointing no officer at all/ he should have showed himself more careful/ and loving. Which if it be absurd: that he saith whereof this followeth/ is not to be admitted.  
Again whereas he granteth that our Saviour Christ hath gone through with the doctrine: I would ask of him why in that point he hath made so clean work? Whatsoever he answer here/ and what causes soever he assign: he can not deny but one cause is/ the blindness of men to see/ and their perverseness of judgement in things pertaining to the kingdom of heaven. Which if it be true: then I would gladly know of him/ how they come to be so egleeyed/ in the matter of discipline/ and government/ which are such buzzards in the sight off the doctrine? and how their eyes be opened here/ which were shut there? As if we were in less peril of error/ in inventing the Discipline of the church: then we should have been in devising the doctrine. or as although it were an easier matter/ to find a rule whereby the whole church jointly, then whereby every one in his several/ might be directed.  
And if part of this government/ and order being propounded / part also is left out: why rather were not the greater offices/ and off more weight expressed/ leaving the smaller to the stamp off man's head? for who knoweth not but it is harder/ to institute a ministery for the government of a whole province/ then for a company comprised within the territoire of a furlong? to institute a ministery for government/ and commandment of both people/ and Bishops too/ then for the people only? So that off the two virtues required in all sufficient dispensation/ faithfulness/ and wisdom/ and which were both most fully in our S. Christ: by the Ans. accounted/ there was neither. For in that he is made to have described some part off the government/ and not all: he is argued of unfaithfulness. in that he is made to have propounded the less/ and easier/ leaving out greater/ and more difficult: his wisdom is reproached.  
Neither may the D. think here to escape/ with the distinction 
in 4. diu. off this chap.  off external things variable by circumstances/ which else where he allegeth. For first I have showed that it is most untrue/ that all external things be variable. Then he must remember/ that he making his Archbishop's office to begin in the Apostles times/ hath drawn out his continuance unto this time: all which he hath (as he yet doth) accounted of him as a head pillar of the church off God. Now if he be such a profitable officer/ both in the purest time of the church/ and the corrupt, both in persecution/ and peace/ under a Christian Magistrate/ and under a Tyrant: it is clear that this is an office not variable by circumstance of times/ but which our Saviour Christ/ and his Apostles might have aswell established in perpetuity/ as he did any of those unchangeable ministries/ Bishop's/ Deacons/ etc.  
In calling it a servile tie, to have the whole government at the prescript of God's word: he forgetteth that the greatest liberty/ and freedom of Christians is/ to serve the Lord according to his revealed will/ and in all things to hung upon his mouth. But that he addeth (it is to be tied unto the letter, as in the law) first is Papistical/ and anabaptistical: proceeding from a gross oversight/ and want of understanding off the Apostles meaning/ when he speaketh of the letter of the law. For whereas the Apostle setteth against the letter of the law/ that is to say/ the bore commandment 
Rom. 7. 6  do this, etc. the working of the spirit given by promise/ whereby the law in part is obtained of us/ and made healthful which otherwise bringeth death: the Answ. with the Papists/ and Anabaptistes'/ opposeth the letter unto that not written/ nor commanded in scripture. When in that sense which he taketh letter (if there were any such) we are as straightly/ and precisely bound unto the letter/ as ever were the jews.  
The examples brought as exceptions/ against the certain/ and commanded ministry/ are such for the most part/ as might seem to have been brought/ to set the D. cause in the mockery and laughter of all men. For it is well known/ that the name off a Scribe: was no name off any certain order, and particular kind of ministery: but a general name given unto the skilful in the law of God. For although we read of some to whom it is given/ which beside the ordinary function wrote something: yet it may be easily 
1. Chron. 24. 6.  showed/ that they had that name not off writing/ but rather because they were expert in the law off God written. Which as it may be proved by divers authorities of the scripture: so it doth by 
Math. 13. 52.  the authority of our Saviour Christ manifestly appear. And when our Saviour speaking off the times of the gospel/ saith he will sand Scribes, and yet never heard tell off that there was any certain order/ or particular function of Scribes under the gospel: 
Math. 23. 34.  it is clear that under title of Scribe/ there was never understanded any several degree of ministery. The same is to be aswered unto the name of Doctor of law: that it was a general name where with they were named/ which were learned/ or taken for learned in the law of God. Which may appear for that whom S. Math. calleth a a lawyer/ or Doctor of the law/ S. Marck 
22. 35. 12. 28.  calleth a Scribe.  
To change the Captain off the Temple into an Ecclesiastical officer, needeth a very strong exorcism. The Temple of jerusalem being the strongest place in the whole city/ and by reason off the height commanding the whole city round about/ was by all likelihood taken of the Romans to be their fort/ or Citadel. Considering that Herod had also builded a fort there/ called Antonia: where 
Calu. up 4. Act.  they placing their garrisons/ did the easilier/ and with greater security/ hold the jews in that bondage/ which they sought at every occasion to shake off. hereunto lead the profane minds of the Romans/ which beside the safety they sought that ways/ took pleasure also in profaning the temple of the Lord: and also the practice off our days/ which may serve for confirmation hereof. But howsoever the matter be/ this appeareth plainly/ that that office was not ecclesiastical/ but both a civil/ and warlike function. For when S. john beside the servants of the Scribes/ 
28. john 3  and high priests/ maketh mention off a band off men: it may appear that as the servants/ and ministers belonged unto the high Priests/ and Scribes: so the band belonged unto those Captains of the temple/ and that they were there as those which had the charge off the band.  
The same may yet appear further/ by that where he laying hold off certain of the Apostles/ put them in prison: after they 
4. Act. 1.  came out they confirmed themselves against their threats/ by that the fame thing was happened unto them/ which was propheceyed of by David/ and whereof our Saviour had experience: in that both jews/ and Gentiles/ and both powers civil/ and ecclesiastical rose up against him. Whereby it is clear/ they had regard to the outrage which they suffered/ both off the priests/ and Scribes jews: and of the Captain off the temple a Gentle. As for the chief of the synagogue: they are the same which be called Elders/ and Ancients of the church in reformed churches/ whereof in every synagogue/ and assembly of the jews/ there was some number (as shall in place appear) called chief/ not for that they had over the ministers/ but because they had the government of the people. Whether the Seniors of the people, were before the restoring off the captivity of Babylon, shall appear in place not to be much material.  
It is a certain reason which is drawn from the figures/ to 
Diuis. 11. etc. pag. 305. etc. 7. Act 44 Heb. 8. 5.  the things figured/ in this sort. for if they were not like unto them they shadow forth: they should be no figures. I apply not particularly the parts of the ark/ to the parts of the church: but compare generally the building off the one/ with the other. Which point also. S. Stephen/ and the Apostle to the hebrews do likewise press. Therefore thalleging off Caluin/ against thapplication of every part thereof unto the church/ is idle. The exceptions are to small purpose. For when I ask what: I deny not but some things might have been left. for if he had would he might have known/ that as the Lord advanced his glory towards his church/ and approached unto men by knowledge of himself: so he did more precisely/ and particularly set forth all things/ pertaining to the church/ and government thereof: and that therefore under the gospel/ wherein he hath opened the threasures of knowledge/ it must follow that he left things more clear/ and certain then before. Yet I will touch the vanity of his exceptions.  
For pings, and nails: I would ask him how he can make a coffer without them/ especially for the water. And therefore if he had prepared boards/ etc. and not set them together/ I think he had not obeyed the voice of God. and it is as much as if he should say/ that he was not bidden to take a needle into his hand/ which is bidden to sew. Whether the windows were off glass, or Crystal made not to purpose: so that they gave a clear light (which the word Moses useth signified) it was enough. Howsoever you were misled by certain expositors/ the cover mentioned Gen. 8. 
Gen. 6. cap. 16.  is cmmaunded in the making off the Ark/ where the Lord also prescribeth it should be a cubit above the Ark: very fit to shut the waters/ that they should not fall continually upon the Ark. The overseer, and master off this work, could be no other than Noa: at whose prescript it was to be done/ and which was to answer if any thing had been done otherwise then the commandment. The Raven, and dove sent forth, were not things belonging to the building off the Ark: and yet as meat/ and drink they are commanded him/ forsomuch as they pertained to preservation of his life/ which the Lord had given him in charge.  
That out of Pelican, and again and again out of Caluin, are such as granted/ conclude not against this cause. That the learned writers say, God charged the jews with ceremonies of his own, that they should have no leisure to use any other: they never use it to prove that there is more liberty to the church now/ then in times past/ to devise any thing: but it is their buckler which they hold out against the Papists/ who by example of that church/ would load this now with such a multitude of ceremonies. Therefore hem doth not in this allegory follow their authority: but rather clean contrary/ walketh herein in the Papists steps. Which where they are pressed/ by this so diligent prescript of all things by the word of God in the old people: answer as the D. that that was done for the rudeness of that people/ and because they were but children/ and that it were injury to the church of Christ/ to shut her up so short as that was. Where he concludeth of them/ that there was only expressed what should be done in the worship of God, and not in external policy: first there be no such words whereupon he may pull in that (and not in the external policy). And in deed it is not to distinguish/ but to pull in pieces. for what whorship of God can there be in the assemblies of Christian men/ without the ministery of the word/ without external policy/ without administration of Sacraments/ without praying openly/ and with outward sound? all which are external. When Caluin calleth it spiritual worship, his meaning is nothingles/ then to oppose spiritual to all external/ done with mouth/ and other party of the body: but he calleth it spiritual/ by comparison of the worship of God under the law/ which consisted in corporal washings/ cleansinge apparel/ etc. and this is that which either abuseth him: or wherewith he would abuse other.  
And although no singular parts off the Tabernacle/ or Temple themselves should set forth unto us/ the external policy of the churches: yet when not only they be described/ but it is prescribed how many kind of officers there should be/ and what every one should do: that might suffice to prove/ that if he will needs separate the worship of God/ from th'external policy: yet as the Lord set forth the one/ so he left nothing undescribed in the other. touching the alteration made by Solomon, and David in sorting the Ministers of the Temple, and other things (an other of the Papists reasons/ to prove that they may ordain things/ beside the 
1. Chron. 24. 19 2. Chron. 29. 25.  prescript of the word): it is answered in the same chap. the Ans. allegeth/ where it is said/ that all that was done by commandment of God. And in an other place is set forth/ that those were instituted by commandment of David/ which had commandment of God/ brought by the hands of Gad the seer/ and of Nathan the Prophet. But seeing the Ans. will not accord with me in this point/ of appointing things under the law: let him at lest bear himself speak in his former book. God in the old law, 
Pag. ●●●.  prescribed unto his people perfect, and absolute laws, not only moral, and judicial, but ceremonial: neither was there the lest thing to be done in the church, omitted in the law. Let him show how this will agreed with that here in the tenth/ and 13. divis. I have showed that it is one thing to be contained/ an other to be expressed in scripture. Therefore if your cause have no better hold then that: it must go to the ground.  
I have showed how this answer/ of leaving things to the order 
Divis. 14. Pag. 307.  off the church, varied by circumstance, etc. can not stand in the Archbishop's case/ nor ordinary government of the church. The argument is not off likes, or pairs, but of the smaller unto the great. And although it should be true/ that you say/ that the Lord loved the church then aswell as he doth now: yet the reason is still of the les unto the great. For if he did so particularly describe the offices/ not of 
Math. 11. 11. 2. Cor. 3.  such excellency/ and weight as the offices/ and ministries of the gospel: it must follow/ that he hath much more used that diligence/ in particular description of the ministries hereof. If the 4. of john, mean that our Saviour should tell all things necessary to salvation: then the Ministry with the degrees thereof/ being necessary/ and without the which the Lord doth not ordinarily give any salvation at all/ it is clear that he hath also declared all 
Rom. 10. 14.  degrees thereof. That out of Saint john 20. is spoken of the miracles our Saviour did/ not off his doctrine: and is thrust in by strong hands in this place. The chief amongst the rest off the ministers/ I might well with S. Paul/ call the pillars: and therefore if the Lord should have made no mention off the Archbishops/ they keeping such a place as they do: it is truly said/ that the pillars should have been forgotten. If the Magistrate were an officer of the church/ and not of the comen wealth: there are many places in scripture both old/ and new/ that describe his office/ and all that pertaineth to him at large. Whereof if the Ans. can bring but one for his Archbishop: this controversy is at an end. Here be many (we knows) whereof some are not indebate: and those which be/ have no causes annexed with them/ whereby other might come to knowledge of them/ as well as he. It is therefore enough to have mentioned mine answer/ without staying in confutation of all those things/ which he at all adventures throweth out/ to make up an answer.  
He saith it is dangerous to say, that the ministries ought not to be 
Diuis. 15. pag 307.  retained, without which the church is fully builded: because the Magistrate is thereby shut forth, as well as the Archbishop. Our question is/ what ecclesiastical ministries are sufficient: the mention therefore of the civil Magistrate/ is absurd. Also it is too great either oversight/ or perverseness/ not to understand that an universal rule/ is not to be racked to every thing: but is true of those things/ wheroff it is given. Beside that/ hereby at unawares he confesseth/ that the church may be fully builded, and accomplished without a Christian Magistrate: which is against that he saith/ the magistrate is the head of the church. His exception (that there is no perfection of unity of the church/ by reason off good/ and bad mingled) first is nothing to this question: secondly it is a quarrel not against me/ but S Paul whose words I used. Thirdly as the ministries of the word 
Ephes. 4. 13. 1. Timot. 4. 16.  are said to save/ and bring us to the kingdom of heaven/ because they give both entrance/ and advancement thereunto/ although we come not to full possession of them/ so long as we being in this life/ need them still: so they are well said/ to bring us to perfection of unity/ because having begun to knit us together here/ they follow still with new increases/ until we come to perfection in the life to come. As for that there must be offices, as well to preserve, and keep the perfection of unity, as to build it, and bring it thereunto: beside that for shifted off answer/ he is driven as it were with one breath/ to affirm that he denied before/ off the perfection of unity: he must understand/ that the church is always in building/ as long at it is here upon earth/ and always in knitting. Therefore if those offices be sufficient to build/ and knit: they are perfectly sufficient. and if tharchbishops'archbishop's office be to keep the church builded/ and knit it is manifest we may spare him here/ and that his service must then begin/ when all other ministries take end. The next divis hath for answer (according to the D. custom) only that which I preventing answered afterwad: saving that he addeth as an exception/ that there be Apostles which there reckoned/ are notwithstanding by us shut out from the present estate of this church. as if he understood not that in the founding of the church/ these may be necessary/ which afterward are not: which also being entreated off in an other place/ needeth not here to be repeated.  
It is Calu. which reasoneth of the place of the Ephesians/ that 
Diuis. 17. pag. 308.  forsomuch as the Apostle saith/ that the church is fully builded without a Pope: therefore there ought to be no Pope. and how slenderly soever he seemeth to the Ans. to have reasoned: yet shall it appear by the vanity of his exceptions against it/ coming afterward to be discussed/ that it is weighty. But where he saith/ albeit the argument be good against the Pope, yet it is not so against the archbishop: unless he can exempt him by miracle/ or teach us some other Logic than hath hitherto been heard off/ the reason includeth him as well as the Pope. For if it be granted that the Pope's office is therefore unprofitable to the church/ because S. Paul made no mention of it in the ministries requisite for the building thereof there being like wise no mention off the office of an Archbishop/ it must thereupon follow/ that th'archbishop also is unprofitable. if there be the same cause: there must follow the same effect. The reason added/ off the Pope doing things which th'archbishop doth not, claiming things which th'archbishop claimeth not, etc. hath no place at all. for the question is not off the abuse/ and tyranny of the Pope: but whether as it is unprofitable that one should govern all the churches in the world/ so it be also that he should govern all in a whole province. And by the D. answer the office of Pastors should be unlawful/ if they challenge unto themselves things unlawful: and the Pope's office good/ and lawful/ if he bearing rule over all churches/ would abstain from those/ and such like challenges which the Ans. setteth down. The contrary whereof is true. For as the Pastor's office can by no outrage of him that exerciseth it/ be made unlawful: so the usage of dominion of one over all/ be it never so moderate/ and qualified can never be lawful. Last of all/ the Archbishop himself/ if he should challenge those things in his province/ which the Pope challengeth over the world/ should be by this reason as unlawful an officer as the Pope. Therefore this difference between the Archbishop/ and Pope/ being accidental/ and not touching the nature of the government whereof we have to inquire/ is unstilfully alleged. Yet it is the hole whereunto the Ans. is compelled divers times to have his recourse. That the ministery is a matter of salvation/ that th'archbishop is a new ministery/ that it is absurd here to fly to th'example of the Magistrate/ where the question is what Ecclesiastical offices are profitable: is before declared.  
The Ans. conclusion off my reply/ touching the place to the Ephes. is evil shut up. For where he saith that tharchbishopric 
Diuis. 18. pag. 309.  may stand, because that place reckoning up only the ministries of the word, that is a ministery of order, and policy: how could he forget/ that th'archbishop meddleth with the ministery of the word? and therefore it was necessary to be here mentioned/ if the Apostle had given him any place in the church. If he will say/ that he hath not only the ministry of the word/ but off order also: the answer is at hand/ that so had both the Apostles by his own confession/ and all the rest off those ministries/ as appeareth afterward. Whether therefore th'archbishop be considered in his ministery of the word/ or as together with that he holdeth the reigns off government/ or as one of the most principal ministries of the church: either he hath his place here to the Ephes. or not a● all. For both all ministries of the word (to speak as the D.) separate from government/ and order/ and all occupied in the word/ and government jointly/ and all principal ministries of off the church/ are here reckoned up. Every one then of these three causes being sufficient/ to have made mention of th'archbishop: all together put a necessity upon the Apostle to speak of him/ if he had been worth the speaking off.  
Where he thinketh there was no cause to speak of him, for that he differeth not from a bishop in ministery of the word, but in order, and government only, and that therefore it is no divers ministery from the bishop's office: by the same reason I may say/ that S. Paul needed not to have mentioned Pastors/ etc. For the Pastors preached the word/ as the Apostles. But if this one difference alhough there were no more/ make the ministery of Apostles/ and pastors divers/ that th'one hath charge off one only church/ tother off apryl must follow/ that the ministery of an archbishop is divers from the bishops/ th'one watching over a whole province/ tother over a diocese only. Yea it is plain off that spoken before of the Archbishop's new ministery/ that there are as many/ or more things whereby he differeth from a bishop: then any of these ministries S. Paul reckoneth up/ differ one from an other. His answer to the place off the Corinth. consisteth in that he would prove/ that the division of offices there, is perfect. Wherein it it easy to see what extremity my reply (which he calleth a vain shift) drove him unto: and how he could not cover his nakedness here/ but with discovering an other place as unseemly as this. For amongst his answers to the place off the Ephes. whereby he would prove/ that that division is not perfect/ this was one in the latin pamphlet/ that to the Corinth. S. Paul speaketh off Apostles, Prophets, and Doctors, leaving out Evangelists, and Pastors: and now to avoid my reply to that answer/ he saith/ clean contrary/ that the Apostle made there a perfect division of offices. But let us see whether this change be for the better.  
Where he saith/ Saint Paul did more perfectly divide to the Corinth. then to the Ephes. he is deceived. For even by his own confession/ he speaking there of preaching offices only/ not off all offices of the church/ and there being none other preaching offices/ but those which he reckoneth up: it followeth that he made there a perfect division. In the place to the Corinth. that there is no perfect division/ although the D. words he changed/ yet his reason he used standeth still: that the Evangelist is not there mentioned, nor Pastor, which were offices in the church. Beside that he keepeth in this refutation his old wont: which is to cut the knot/ and not to loose it. For he bringeth reasons of his to prove the perfection of the division/ without answering mine. And yet his be such/ as are unwothy answer. For in the first/ beside that it is untrue/ that the Apostle made a perfect division of gifts in the church: if he had/ yet it followeth not that he made the same in offices/ especially when he will needs separate offices from gifts. The second reason (therefore it is a perfect division, because there is added first, second, third) is as simple as the first. for those words are not put there to note the number of offices / but to declare which is highest in degree/ and which next/ etc. and if they did: yet I never could yet read/ that they were notes off a perfect division. His third (because it hath more members then that in the Ephes●.) I think he understandeth by this time what strength it hath: if he remember that which I answered/ that the Apostles meaning to the Eph. was/ not to divide the offices of the church in general/ but those only which handle the word. unless par adventure he think/ that he maketh a fuller partition/ which divideth both the hands into eight fingers/ then which denideth one into five. Martyr's authority doth not help him. For he saith not that he reckoneth all the parts of the church particularly/ or how many it hath/ which he should have said to help him: but only that he reckoneth up what members the church hath/ which he doth that rehearseth some.  
Whether a bishop be contained under a Pastor/ or rather a 
Divis. 19 Pag. 310.  Pastor under a bishop: shall not now be the question. But you are inconstant in all your ways/ and have one sentence standing/ a other sitting. For albeit I should agreed with you/ that a bishop is a Pastor: yet you do not agreed with your self. For otherwere in stretching out the Bishop's arms/ you have these words: a bishop is both superior in office, and gifts unto a Pastor. If he be so/ he can not be contained under him: for that which containeth 
pag. 137.  an other thing/ hath at the lest all in itself/ which the contained hath. Again if I grant a bishop contained under the Pastor S. Paul speaketh of: yet I will not grant that the bishop you mean (which having so many churches to rule/ hath never a one where he doth the office of a bishop) is contained under S. Paul's Pastor. For seeing his foundation is laid in Jerome's bishop/ proved before/ and after/ not to be of the institution of God/ but off man: it can not be/ that our kind of bishop should be comprehended under S. Paul's Pastor. whereupon also followeth/ that th'archbishop which hath a necessary relation to that kind of bishop/ and can not stand without him: is not by any means contained under S. Paul's Pastor. The proofs of your division of bishops into archbishop's/ and those called by the comen name of bishops/ are as doubtful as that wherefore they are brought.  
To prove that the office of an Archbishop was in S. Paul's time/ although the name were not/ is brought the word Consubstantial▪ which being the comen hook off the Papists/ to 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  pull in their unwritten verities/ ought to serve the reader for a watch word/ that th'archbishops office needing this physic/ is sick of the same disease. And for the word itself/ although it be lawful/ and very convenient/ and the council off Syrme did not well in yielding unto the Arrians to the displacing of it: yet it is not necessary/ as without which the doctrine of the truth of the divinity of our Saviour Christ/ can not be maintained. For to say so/ were to accuse the holy writers/ S. john especially: which debating that cause against the heretics of his time/ Cerinthus/ Ebion/ etc. did never use it. But what is this unto the Archbishop? let us have but one testimony out of the word of God of the office of an Archbishop/ for the infinite testimonies of the divinity of the son of God: and then this example may help you. And although the word Consubstantial were not in S. Paul's time: Yet words of the same weight were. If you can show therefore words of the same value with Archbishop/ although you show not this/ it shall be sufficient: if you can not/ then this example maketh against you. Here also is further to be observed/ that this answer off the D. of the office of the archbishop being in the Apostles time/ although the name was not/ is the armour wherewith the Pope's title of universal bishop is maintained. 
Diuis. 1. art. 4.  For this is hardings answer to the bishop/ that although the name of universal bishop/ was not at the first given to the Pope: yet the authority was. After he flieth to his old refuge of the Prince/ and there seeketh cover for the Archbishop: ask whether he shall have no authority in the church, because he was not in S. Paul's tyme. Although S. Paul had said that our Saviour Christ had given princes unto his church immediately after his ascension/ as he beareth us in hand he gave archbishops: either they must have had authority then/ or never after. So keeping your similitude/ if our Saviour gave Archbishops when he ascended/ and in S. Paul's time: either they must have had their authority then/ or never after. And the case is nothing like. for if there were no Christian Princes in the Apostles times/ they being needful for preservation of the churches: the cause was that it was not in the Apostles power/ to ordain Christian Princes. But it was in their power to have provided the churches of Archbishops/ if they had been needful: and therefore they had been inexcusable for not appointing them/ serving so greatly to the building off the church/ as we are borne in hand.  
Moreover the comparison is most unfitly made: seeing the civil magistrate is a perpetual office for all times/ persons/ places: whereas by his own confession/ the Archbisop is temporal/ and arbitrary. Where also he asketh whether the civil Magistrate shall not have the chief authority in governing the church, because there is no express mention of him in these two places: I answer that the Prince's authority is established in other places/ so that it may flourish without these. But the Archbishopric/ seeing it is an ecclesiastical function/ either must be planted by one of these places/ or die in the church considering that there is no ecclesiastical function/ which is not here set forth. Your collection of my words is evil bound together. for how cleave these? Some offices instituted off God endured for a time, therefore men may devise new offices. Where lieth the strength of your argument? Whether in this that because God instituted offices for a time/ therefore man may: or in this that God did abrogate certain offices/ therefore man may institute? Which soever you say (as you must needs say one): the absurdity is apparent. for in both the comparison is made/ between the authority of God/ and th'authority of man. Between whom how great distance there is: so great difference is there between your argument/ and a just conclusion. The clean contrary is gathered rather. For as we reason against the Papists/ that God did not abrogate his own ceremonies/ that men should thrust in others considering that if he would have had ceremonies/ he would have taken off his own: so it may be said/ that God did not cut off his own ministries/ to make place for others: and that if more ministries off preaching/ and governing jointly had been necessary/ beside Doctor's/ and Pastors: he would rather have kept his own/ then taken those which men devise.  
Here all shifts/ and colours failing him/ and not being once 
Diuis. 20. pag 311.  able to lift at this reason: he hath changed my argument. For where I had said it forth in a plain hypothetical Syllogism: he hath altered it. But I will offer it him again, if under Saint Paul's Pastor th'archbishop be comprehended, than he is necessary, and commanded by the word of God: but you say he is comprehended: therefore he is commanded and necessary. Which if it be true: than you are fallen from your distinction/ of things necessary to salvation/ and not necessary/ off things arbitrary/ and commanded by the word off God. But let us see now you have prepared the argument after your own fashion/ and as you thowght you could wield it/ how you deal with it. You say first this proposition (Pastors are necessary at all times) is particular. verily the masters/ by whom this should be judged/ never taught that an indefinite proposition in a necessary matter/ is particular. But because you like not the form which I used/ you shall have it after your own in this sort. All S. Paul's Pastors are necessary: the Archbishop (as you say) is one off S. Paul's Pastors: therefore he is necessary. Here if you deny the first proposition: you have the whole council/ and Senate almost of learned men against you: affirming that those two/ Pastor/ and Doctor/ be amongst the rest perpetual offices. And if to be a perpetual office be verified off the Pastor/ which S Paul speaketh of: than it must be verified off all contained underneath/ amongst whom you say the Archbishop is. Secondly the Archbishop being made one of the gifts/ which our Saviour ascending sent unto his church: if it were in the power off the church either to establish/ or not to establish him: it should be in her power to refuse the gifts of Christ. which if it be absurd: that also must be whereof this followeth. Thirdly if the Archbishop be necessary at any time (which must needs be if he be comprehended under S. Paul's Pastor): then goeth to the ground his comen refuge/ that his office may be instituted/ or not/ at the church's will.  
Moreover if he say that it is necessary/ and commanded a● some time/ and not at others: what a miserable case is the church in/ that hath no certain address out of the word/ when that necessity and commandment beginneth/ and when it endeth: when this office is in season/ when out of season? Lastly forasmuch as S. Paul speaketh of offices then in the church/ not of those which came after (as the Ans. himself is forced to confess) the Archbishop's office must needs have been in the Apostles time. Which if it be true: those times being (as the Answ. hath borne 
In 2. Tractat.  us in hand) so unlike ours: the persons in the church then off so different dispositions from those now/ the place also/ the gospel being then in the East parts/ where now it is in the West: it must needs follow that this monely office of the archbishop/ which ebbeth and floweth/ being fit for the Apostles times/ is by all likelihood unfit for ours. His distinction unto the second proposition is/ that an Archbishop in respect off the ministery of the word, and Sacraments is necessary always: but not in respect of policy, and government. Which is as much to say/ as an archbishop when he is an archbishop/ is always necessary for the church. For when he hath not the outward government/ then by your own rule he is no archbishop: than which speech what can be more absurd? And of this answer followeth/ that there is a time when the Pastors have nothing to do with the external policy/ and government of the church/ but only to administer the word/ and Sacraments: and then the church shallbe an heap/ and not a body/ a confused multitude/ not an orderly society. Yet in the next section/ he giveth the government of the church and order unto the bishops/ and archbishop's/ and will have them part the stake off the Apostles authority which they had in the church. And as this answer is absurd: so it is contrary to that he hath set down in his former book/ that not only the office of the Archbishop is necessary, 
pag. 351. Divis. 1. Diuis. 21. pag. 311.  but most necessary.  
I said before that the Apostle speaketh to the Ephes. off ministries which have to do with preaching the word: but never added (as you in your Doctor's book/ and here) and not those which have to do with order, and discipline. Therefore I had nothing forgotten myself, if be would have understanded that which is plain to all the world. for these two may well stand together/ the Apostle spoke there only off functions conversant in the word: and the Lord spoke of those functions which Preach the word, and administer the government. for the word only/ doth not seclude government from those ministries: but shutreth out all ministries not preaching/ as that off the Elder/ and Deacon. And it is one thing to say/ the Lord spoke there only off preaching ministries: an other to say/ he spoke there of ministries only preaching: which (me thinketh) you could not be ignorant of. Therefore Saint Paul reckoning up the ministries there/ which have together with the preaching of the word/ the administration of government/ and making no mention off the Archbishop/ supposed to have both: it followeth that you are yet behind with your answer. I have not confuted my shadow, but your fond fantasy. For if S. Paul speak in that place, of those that have the ministery of the word, and Sacraments only, and not of those which have to do with the order of discipline: it followeth that Apostles have nothing to do with order/ and discipline/ forsomuch as they are amongst those/ which S. Paul there speaketh of. If this cogitation never entered into your head: how cometh it to pass/ that it is found in your papers?  
Lastly you say the administration of discipline, and government in the Apostles, is fallen upon the Archbishops, and bishops, the overthrow off my whole assertion If a man will believe you speaking/ he may: otherwise here is nothing but I said it. And surely it must be a very simple hold/ that is cast down with this paper shot of bore affirmation. but if you will weigh a little what you say: you shall see that if there be any bullet at all in this your saying/ it is charged wholly upon your self. For before you have said once/ or twice that the office, and authority of an Archbishop was in the Apostles times. Which if it be true/ how doth the Archbishop receive his avauritie of order/ and government by their death? for having it before/ he cannot receive it by their departure. Ether therefore this is untrue/ that the archbishop exerciseth the same authority which the Apostles: or that which you said before/ that the office of the Archbishop was in the Apostles time: or else this third is true/ that he having in the Apostles time/ authority which he hath now: by their death obtained beside their former authority/ that which the Apostle had also. Which how near it pricketh at the papacy/ I leave to every one to consider. But if the Archbishop will succeed unto the administration of order/ and government of the apostles: why showeth he not his evidence? why bringeth he not forth his records of bequest/ off resignation: that it may appear he is not entered as a trespasser.  
In that sense which I have showed in an other place/ I 
In 3. diui. Pag. 231. Ad Euagr.  grant it true which Jerome saith/ that all bishops succeed unto the Apostles: but show me who speaketh any thing of the succession of the archbishop unto them. Nay verily that is flat against the archbishop's authority. For if every bishop have that authority in his church/ which the Apostles had in all the world: it followeth that there neither needeth/ neither can be any archbishop to receive any thereof. And that if any archbishop challenge a greater authority/ then is in any one bishop: he pulleth to himself greater authority in his province/ then ever the Apostles had in the world. And by the same reason that they be Lords/ and superiors over bishops: they must be lords/ and superiors in their province over the Apostles themselves/ if they were alive. Considering they rule over those/ which in their dioceses have the same authority that the Apostles had. This I speak/ not that I think the Bishops had not this authority/ from the very birth/ and foundation of the function/ as touching the government of their churches/ or that there came any authority unto them by the Apostles death/ which they had not in their times: but that it may be understanded/ that if there were any such succession unto the Apostles government/ as the D. phansieth: the bishops are the right beyres/ and that not certain (other some shut forth) but every one as Jerome saith. Although if th'archbishop should have an Apostolical authority in governing his province: it hath appeared/ and more shall (God willing) that the Apostles government was far from that principality/ and rule one over an other/ which th'archbishops challenge over their under bishops. The next division I will not answer. The next unto that/ I report me to the reader/ whether I have faithfully/ and almost servilely bound myself unto his words/ in translating these pieces of his latin pamphlet. For the next also/ I having showed that you placing the Apostles function in preaching/ and ministering the Sacraments/ not in government: and assigning to th'archbishop both Administration of the word/ and Sacraments/ and order and discipline/ must needs lay greater weight upon th'archbishop/ then upon the Apostles: if you now revoke it/ I am glad. Howbeit ashamed to speak it in so many words/ even yet the course off this treatise doth breath nothing else.  
This is no answer unto my reason. For if the church without 
Divis. 25. Pag. 313.  the Archbishop/ and Archdeacon/ be a body consisting of all the parts/ comely knit together/ wherein nothing wanteth/ nor nothing is to much: than it followeth/ that these offices bring neither ornement/ nor accomplisment to the church/ but make only an unprofitable knob/ and lump of flesh/ to the both disfuguring/ and hindrance of the growght of the body. And the ministry of order/ and policy of the church/ being one part off this body: if it be not whole/ and complete/ but need to be peeced out with archbishops/ and Archdeacon's: it must draw with it this absurdity/ that there being one member unperfect without them/ the body also of Christ is not perfect. And where it is said/ that as in the Apostles times the church was not perfect without them, and Prophets, etc. so it is not now, meaning thereby (as both before/ and after hath appeared) that th'archbishops should supply the room of the Apostles: I answer that the Argument holdeth not. For considering that the perfection of the body/ must be measured by the will of him whose the body is/ that is Christ: as when he gave Apostles/ Evangelists/ etc. he made it appear that he would not have his body perfect without them: so when he took them away from his church/ he made it known that the body was perfect without them. If Apostles/ and Evangelists had been put down by authority of man: than it might have helped you/ that as men put down ministries/ so they might supply them with other. But seeing they were taken away by the Lord: this your reason in effect (because God taketh away, therefore men may administeries) hath no strength in it. And where all this drift is/ that you would have tharchbishops'archbishop's office come in for the Apostles/ and therefore say that their authority over the pastors doth, and must remain in such places, as there be churches: besides my former answer unto this point/ you are again taken in the words of your own lips. For if it must remain: then the office of the archbishop which you make the vessel to receive this authority in/ and whose office (you say) consisteth in the rule off other pastors, is not variable/ and depending off circumstance of time/ etc. but perpetual/ and constant.  
If Bucer speak as you make him: I can by no means subscribe unto him. For S. Luke saith plainly/ that there were many 
Act. 20. 28.  bishops at Ephesus: and giveth the name of bishop to many. That the name of bishop did properly remain in one of them, and improperly in tother/ if it have so good authority as the former/ I will believe that too: if not/ I hold me unto the words of S. Luke. And if the name of bishop doth unproperly belong unto those/ whom Saint Paul saith the holy ghost had appointed bishops: over the church: I confess that I can not tell what authority is sufficient/ to make that name of bishop proper unto them. And if the name of bishop did not properly belong unto them all/ but unto one only: it followeth that the name also of an Elder/ did not properly belong unto them. For the one of them is 
Act. 20. c. 17. v.  as well verified of them/ as the other: and there is no more restraint of the name of bishop then of an Elder/ unto any one singular person amongst them. And how is this sentence of Bucer here pulled in by the hear? for albeit it were concluded/ that one bishop should bear dominion over the ministers of one church: yet it followeth not which is here in question/ that one also ought to rule over all bishops in a province. The rest is answered.  
In deed I deny, but you affirm that there be still Apostles/ 
Diuis. 26. pag. 314  prophets/ etc. and therefore by your saying/ that order which was then/ ought now also to be continued. And although your archbishop were under gowned: yet order in ecclesiastical mynistries remaineth/ that the teaching Elders should be a degree above those which govern only/ and they above the Deacons. The mark I shoot at is certain/ that is to confute your distinction of 
Diuis. 27: pag. 314.  ministries of the word/ and Sacraments only/ and ministries of government/ and order: and it seemeth I shot so nigh/ that I have driven you away from the mark. For you wander/ and tell us of things that have neither head/ nor foot: and which if they were true/ make neither hot/ nor kold unto this question. For if your learned interpreters, have well defined S. Paul's rule (the Elders which rule are worthy) etc. when they say it is to serve Christ, and his church faithfully, in doctrine, and integrity of life etc.: than it must suffice your Archbishop to do so/ and no more. For if you think that every minister in his church/ is barred by that definition from further government/ then which consisteth in preaching/ administering the Sacraments/ uncorrupt life/ etc.: it followeth that he meddling with more than those/ breaketh the bounds off good government. After you make an other road out of the question/ bearing the reader in hand/ that I would conclude out of that place equality of ministers when as my purpose was as I have showed/ to confute your vain distinction. Which although you here deny: yet the print off your hand is deeper/ then you can wipe out by these so strong/ but little honest denials. For unless you refer this word only, to the secluding off the ministries mentioned to the Ephesians/ from the government/ and policy of the church: your answer falleth as is before declared. Considering that you labouring to make a difference between those ministries/ and the Archbishops/ make none: if they together with administration of the word/ and Sacraments/ handle also order/ and government. And although you had quite left out the word only: yet these words (the Apostle doth recite those ministries which are occupied in prayer, the word, and Sacraments: not of them which are instituted for order, and discipline) have that sense which I have given them. For if he speak off those which minister the word/ and Sacraments/ not off those instituted for government/ etc. it followeth that he speaketh off those which minister the word/ and Sacraments only. As he that saith a man is justified by faith/ and not by works: saith that he is justified by faith only. The bolt shot upon no occasion/ touching the papacy of every pastor in his church, and off shaking off the Prince's authority, being that which cometh every hand while/ when he hath naught else to say/ shall be broken in an other place. For the two next divis. let the reader judge off the writings of both sides.  
My words have light enough to have kept you from this 
Diuis. 30. pag. 316.  wandering/ but that you take pleasure in untruth. for beside that the scope of my disputation's/ doth beat you from that vagary: my words are plain. For I say not that every one that occupieth a ministry in the church, hath gifts sufficient for his calling: but every function, or ministry of the church, hath gifts sufficient, etc. And if your understanding be so narrow as you pretend: understand it by examples. And because our question is of offices necessary for our times/ and therefore likewise of the gifts: you may learn that the office of a Pastor/ is (as hath been showed) a several office from the Doctor/ because beside the knowledge/ and dexterity in teaching/ the wisdom/ and discretion in governing: it hath also annexed the grace to move affections/ either to the love of good/ or hatred of evil. Likewise the Doctor from the Elder: because beside the gift of government enough for that function/ there is required as I have said ability to teach. The Deacon from the Elder: for that beside faithfulness/ and reasonable wisdom/ which is sufficient for the gathering/ and bestowing of the church money: is required with greater wisdom a singular diligence/ as of him whose charge reacheth unto the whole/ where the other pertaineth to the poor of the church only: and which is occupied in relieving the poverties of the mind/ where the other is off the body. This is that I said/ every function hath proper gifts for the execution of it: and that forsomuch as now there is no gift necessary for the ecclesiastical ministery/ not contained in these/ and that all these fall into the ordinary ministery instituted/ and specified in the scripture: therefore these ordinatie ministries specified in scripture/ be sufficient. And as it is a good reason that there are no more Sacraments but baptism/ and the supper/ forsomuch as there is no promise of life everlasting not expessed in these/ considering that th'one sealeth up/ and assureth that we are received into the house of God/ the other that we shall befed in it to life everlasting: even so these ministries/ are proved to be sufficient/ because all gifts necessary to good order/ and conduit of the church/ are promised unto them.  
Against this is said/ that God tieth not his gifts to a certain number of names, but bestoweth them where it pleaseth him. I spoke not off all gifts/ but of gifts necessary to govern the church with all: and those being necessarily tied unto the offices which have/ and ought to have/ those names: all other church offices are shut forth/ as those which are either idle/ or hurtful. That there are functions necessary Coriath. 12. not mentioned to the Ephesians, and again that the Apostle did not make a perfect division in either of those places, is only to trifle out the time. forsomuch as I added expressly/ that I grounded my reason off both places jointly beside that it is untrue that Deacons, and widows are left out to the Corinth. being contained in the word helps. Moreover this is the third contrary 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  sentence/ which he hath given off Corin. 12. for in the latin book he proveth/ that there is no perfect division there: in this he goeth 
in 18. diu. pag. 309.  about to prove by reason/ and authority/ that it is pecfect: here he saith it is not perfect Such force hath the truth/ that it maketh them all giddy/ and turnesick that wrestle against it: not perfect, perfect, not perfect. so that the very Chameleon itself/ could never so suddenly/ and into so contrary colours change itself. Against his exception that there are reckoned up in those places offices which endured for a time: I grant there were so/ but those ceasing (as hath been showed) their proper gifts also be gone with them. Where he addeth that he could tell me, that the church hath authority to appoint names, and offices: it is that in question/ which he often saith/ but never proveth. touching Readers/ it is answered: as for Catechistes/ they are to be discussed after.  
The argument which you say is too bad for a boy, is as good as I can make any. I will leave it to the judgement of all which have skill/ how you uncover your self in your exceptions against it. For to omit that I have said/ and leave to be judged/ of arguments good of particulars: my first proposition is universal/ if this be/ the servant that knoweth his masters will, and doth it not, shall be beaten with many stripes: and this/ they that do the will of my father which is in heaven, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: he that is not with me, is against me: those which go after other gods, shall loose their good: and an infimite number more/ to be seen both in holy/ and profane writers. But as the ruder sort know not the King/ unless he have his crown upon his head: so the D. hath no mark to know a general proposition by/ unless it have this word All, upon the head of it.  
Likewise where he saith this word (only) is not to be found in the second proposition: He should have understanded/ that it is a part of the principal extremes/ and therefore could not enter there. It is his great want/ that he can not know one term/ from another/ unless they stand in their natural order. for because he saw not these words (only are sufficient) in the natural place off the extreme/ as one that had no mark to discern the master from the man/ but by going before and behind/ he taketh one for another. When S. john saith in the beginning was the word, and by and by after/ God was that word, with many such examples both in holy/ and profane writ: those that have but a little judgement can tell/ that although he changed the natural order/ yet those are still the first parts/ which are put in the later place: and that it is as much as if he had said/ The word was in the beginning, and the vorde was God. This is therefore the argument, which in the Ans. sight hath no manner of form. Those functions which have all gifts needful/ either for the ministering of the word/ and Sacraments/ or for the government of the church/ only are sufficient: the functions reckoned up of Saint Paul in both the places/ to the Ephes and Corinth. have all gifts needful/ either for ministering off the word/ and Sacraments/ or for government of the church: therefore those functions only are sufficient. Let the reader therefore judge/ whether this argument be like unto these sweepinge/ that he hath matched it with. That an archbishop is a 
Divis 31. Page 317 in divi. 10 pag. 304. in 3 Tra  new ministry/ is declared. Where he saith if no man appoint new offices, but he which can give gifts to discharge them, it should follow, that no man might appoint offices: if he understand as he ought to do ecclesiastical offices/ it is that I maintain. if he leap over here (as his custom is) to civil: I have showed that the reason is not like.  
Half this divis. is in the tenth of this chap. where it hath answer. My argument here (a man may not add to the ministries, 
Divis 32 pag. 318.  because he may not take away) is first of things apparently like: as those which are likewise forbidden/ likewise punished. 
Deut. 12. 32. Apoc. 22. 19  Then it hath this ground/ that they being contrary fall into one subject: except one be naturally in it/ as heat in fire. (Which I am constrained to speak of/ because I have to do with such a trifler/ as would snatch at this exception/ although nothing to prurpose.) So that as he that hath authority to make laws/ hath also to abrogate/ he which may absolve may condemn/ he that may bind may lose: so he that hath power to add/ hath also to diminish. But mark what the D. answereth. The question is whether men may add to the ministries: the mean/ and argument whereby I prove they can not, because it is not lawful to diminish: now when he answereth/ that men may add/ doth he not give that for answer which is the question/ and take that for his proof/ which is to be proved? And as for that which followeth (the added ministries may be helps to ministries instituted off God): it is likewise in controversy/ being as doubtful as the rest. And the Papists may as well answer thus/ for the multiplying off their Sacraments: as the D. for increase off the ministries. But forsomuch as these are your comen answers/ here is nothing new/ or to be wondered at. Unto the second proposition he saith/ men may take away offices of God which are temporal (that is enduring for a time) but not perpetual. Wherein he is greatly abused. For neither any man/ nor all men in the world/ could have put down the temporal ministries of Apostles/ Evangelists/ etc. which the Lord ordained/ unless the Lord himself had withdrawn them: and therefore they so long remained in the church/ until he by their death/ without raising up any seed unto them (by distribution of those gifts whereby those ministries might be furnished) declared that they had an end.  
The Ans. in defence of this forged Doctors/ is like unto one 
Chap. 2. Diuis. 1. pag. 319.  which to defend him from the kolde/ covereth himself with a wet sack. For before his ignorance might have in part excused him: now by this maintenance of his answer/ he hath doubled his folly. For first to make himself clean/ he defileth as much as he can/ Master Caluin/ and the Bishop of Salisbury: both which he neither showeth to have used this Clement/ and if they do: yet their use of him/ or such like/ is so farfrom lessening his fault/ that is maketh it more appear. For they use them against the Papists/ which for the most part attributing unto them as great weight of authority/ as to the scriptures themselves/ are so set up. Which they do also thereby to drive from them: that if they can not be brought from the confidence they have in such/ because they are false: at lest they might be brought to mislike them/ because they make against them. Likewise when they allege them/ they give them such an ear mark/ that all may know them forged. But the D. doth use them against those/ which hunger for proofs at his hands out of the word of God/ in the matters debated: which have that estimation that is meet should be had/ off such filth as that is: which could not give credit unto this authority/ without renouncing the profession of the gospel/ which we have in comen. And in steed off giving him his ear mark: he putteth a night cap upon him/ to hide it with. for in steed off alleging of him out of the epistles/ where he appeareth with his horns/ and claws plainly: he maketh him come out of Polidore/ as disguised out of a strange country. and because Polidores words did not muffle him sufficiently/ in saying that this was contained in a little summary of Christian religion: he (that Clement might go the better unknown) added/ in a book entitled, etc. which I marvel with what face he citeth Polidore for. as if there were no difference between his/ and Polidorc● words. And he is not content only to have alleged the authority: but as in a certain/ and undoubted victory/ he triumpheth/ and insulteth upon his adversary: saying/ Peter was not Antichrist, ergo the name off an Archbishop, is not Antichristian.  
In the second place he saith/ he used them not ●● sure grounded, but as probable testimonies of antiquity of the name. Wherein his hand being with the Papists/ is against not only the manifest truth/ but all those godly writer's/ which reject those epistles as upstarts/ and lately forged under a hedge. For against them all the D. saith/ that it is very probable that they have that antiquity which they pretend. Thirdly/ he compareth them with the Canons attributed unto the Apostles: whereof albeit diverse ●●e falsely fathered: yet those creeping in at sundry times/ were ●●●w●●standing some 100 years/ before this dross came ●●to the church. whereupon also the corruptions in them/ although they ●a●ter the walls off the city of God: yet they raze not the foundations of it/ as this Clement doth: neither are they alleged of me (as he pretendeth) but with attaint of the baseness of their birth. And for my alleging off Higinus: I refer me to the judgement of the reader/ what a cognisance I have given him there/ 
pag. 4●●  to be known by.  
His last refuge is/ that it is like Polidore meant some other book. not now extant. For confutation of which unshamefast speech/ to what end should I other allege the lateness of the time wherein he wrote/ or unfoundnes of his judgement? whereby he having not made half a turn from Popery unto the gospel: might by all likelihood think/ that those were Clementes epistles. The weakness of his own proofs do betray him/ as those that make more against/ then for him. For if he will make difference between a gross epistle/ and a little book: the precise distinction tendeth rather to prove a book/ then an Epistle. And for the length/ it is manifest: considering that Tully calleth such long letters/ a volume: and in two or three epistles drawn out beyond the ordinary/ correcteth himself/ as breaking the bonds of an Epistle. The same may be said both off the matter handled/ and off the manner off handling. Which being neither comen/ nor familiar if a man will speak as the Latins (whom Polidore followeth) use: they were fit for a book/ then an Epistle. That Clement scarce knowing what difference there is/ between the nominative/ and accusative case: it was no marvel if he were ignorant of the difference/ between a book/ and an epistle: and therefore not unlike/ but Polidore helped him in his title. for the next divis. I am content that the issue declare/ from whence the archbishop came.  
This is dainty/ and tender gear/ and such as I can not deal with. divers times before his answer hath been/ that tharchbishops'archbishop's 
Diuis. 3. pag. 320.  ministery differeth from the Bishop's touching order: here he saith/ they differ not in order. before to prove that the church might appoint an archbishop/ he said/ that it might appoint an 
pag. 317.  office/ beside the offices of the scriptures: now he is gone from that/ saying the Archbishop's ministery is no other ministry, but an other degree. Also in an other place/ he to maintain th'archbishop saith/ the church may add ministries: here because he is ashamed off that/ he 
pag. 318.  denieth that it is a new ministery. Then forasmuch as his answer standeth in this difference/ off ecclesiastical office/ and degree/ and again between ecclesiastical degree/ and order: because I think they were never heard off before/ they need some authority of the scripture/ at lest some Ecclesiastical writers to confirm them. And beside that in ecclesiastical writers/ the ministries are separated one from an other by degree: the Ans. 
Pag. 587.  himself in an other place/ will have the word degree (when it is said/ they get unto themselves a good degree) to signify a divers ministry from the Deaconship. Likewise in an other place/ to prove that a Bishop is above a priest/ he upon certain authorities 
Pag. 361.  concludeth/ that in those times there were three degrees of ministers/ bishop/ priest/ and deacon. whereupon it must follow/ that if the Archbishop differ from the bishop in degree ecclesiastical: he must differ in ministery/ even as the degree of deacon/ being different from the Elder/ maketh a several ministry from it. yea thereupon followeth/ that there being then but three degrees in the church/ whereof the archbishop was none by his own saying: there was then no archbishop/ seeing he maketh him a several degree from them: which is a manifest overthrow off that he defendeth.  
In an other place to prove Timothe archbishop/ he allegeth 
pag. 325.  that th'office of tharchbishops, and bishops be one, because whatsoever is necessary for a bishop, is necessary for an archbishop: which is ridiculous. For then a bishop is all one with an Elder/ considering that whatsoever is necessary for an Elder/ is necessary for a bishop: and the Evangelists office the same that an Apostles/ considering that whatsoever is necessary for an evang. is necessary for an Apostle. Where to prove the offices all one/ he should have said/ not only that it is necessary for an archbishop which is for a bishop: but also that whatsoever is necessary for an archbishop/ 
In the same place  ●s likewise for a bishop. Where he saith/ they differ only in order, and policy, and therefore all attributed in the Epistle to Timothe the Archbishop, agreeth unto every bishop: thereof followeth that a comen (as he is called) not differing in office from our bishop (as himself confesseth after) shall by the same reason/ have power to do all things described in that epistle/ and consequently make ministers/ and put out as well as our bishops do. These things therefore were given out/ or ever they were well thowght off: some time th'archbishop differeth in office from a bishop/ sometime he differeth not: sometime he differeth in order/ sometime not: some time in degree/ sometime not.  
To prove that S. Peter by himself/ without the authority of other Apostles/ instituted Archbishop's/ is brought the example of S. Paul, which made Timothe, and Tite Archbishops: which is to prove one thing in controversy/ by that which is likewise. and is all one as if one doubting the sufficiency of his creditor/ in steed of some substantial man to assure his debt/ should have a bank rout brought to be bound unto him. Which manner off reasoning when all men know how absurd it is: it appeareth that the Ans. using it continually/ is (as they say) at the end off his roll. That S. Paul did not appoint Titus/ and Timothe of his own 
in 2. Tractat.  authority only/ hath before appeared: that he did not appoint them Archbishops/ shall afterward (God willing) be showed. Beside that it hath been already of Timothe showed/ that he was an Evangelist: and the same reason is off Tite.  
To my other reason/ that S. Peter would not graft the most noble plant (as it is counted) of the ministery of the gospel/ in the rotten stock of Archflamines: he answereth that Peter might place Archbishops where the Archflamines were, not in respect of them, but in respect off the city. Which distinction I confess I understand not: only I see/ that in this cloud/ and missed off confused/ and undistinct distinction/ he would steal away unespied. for if in the same cities only where there were Archflamines (as we are borne in hand) and in place of them Archbishops were placed: and as the Archflamines were set to oversee the flamines/ so the Archbishops to oversee the bishops: how can it be but they were placed as well in respect off those Achflamines/ as of the cities? For they differ not in this point from Archflam. considering that as archbishops were placed in respect off great cities: so were the Archflam. before them. Here also the Answ. floateth in his judgement of Peter. For before he said/ he had the chief rule off the ●●●stles in all matters: and here/ he was not above them in power. so that unless 
Pag. 68  he can mince us a diversity between superior in rule/ and superior in power: it is clear that he is not the same man here/ that he was there.  
The lords priests/ and sacrifices were before the priests/ and sacrifices of the Gentills. therefore that exception (God instituted 
Diuis. 4. pag. 321.  priests and sacrifices though the Gentiles had the like) ●● vain to prove that there may be Archbishops/ as there were Archflamines. A King was necessary for the Israelites, to shadow out to them the kingdom of our S. Christ: therefore that example is out of place. To prove conformite between the people of God/ and Idolaters in things which are not necessary/ as the Archebishoprick is confessed/ beside that it is an evil conclusion/ to say there may be conformity between the people of God/ and Idolaters in civil affairs/ therefore in ecclesiastical: to ordain a bishop, and minister being the institution of God/ in every church where there was other a flamen, or mass priest, can not be said to be framed according to those orders. But to ordain an Archbishop not instituted off God/ both in that place where the Archflamen was/ and with that rule/ and authority over the bishops/ which the archflam. had over their flamens: can not be imagined/ but to have been framed according to that Idolatrous function. If you will therefore make the like: you must prove that as it is the institution of God/ that in every church there should be a bishop/ or minister: so it is likewise his institution/ that in every great city/ there should be an Archbishop. The allegation out of master Fox in the next/ pertaineth not to this place. For the question is not here/ whether the Archbishops came in steed of Arflamines/ but wether S. Peter did ordain archbishops in place off the archflamines: which I assure myself you can not show out of him.  
Here he hath at one push/ thrust the archbishop quite out of the church. For if this be a good reason/ there were no deacons 
Diuis. 6. pag. 312.  amongst the jews/ because they were not specified in the old Testament: than it is likewise true/ that forsomuch as there is no Archbishop specified in the new Testament/ there was no Archbishop in the Apostles times. Against this take off Peter's ordaining off Archbishops in the place off Archeflamen/ add this/ that the vanity of it may appear: forasmuch as if there were any Archeflamen in S. Peter's time/ they were upholden off the Magistrates that lived in those days. And therefore to put down them/ and place other in their rooms/ there was required S. Peter/ beside his keys should have a sword/ and an army of men. For the Magistrates being then (as the Ans. himself granteth) heathenish/ and Idolatrous: this alteration could never be made/ but by strong hand/ and at the sword point. The rest/ bare affirmations/ and confuted in other places/ I leave. Whether the saducees were collectors for the poor/ I will not enter further into: although his reason/ off not being specified in the old testament, is unsufficient. For it is enough if it be in new or old: considering that the baptizing of the Israelites in the sea/ and spiritual feeding by Manna/ and the water following them/ being under the old Testament: are only specified in the new. beside that his argument is negative of one part off 
1. Corint. 10. etc.  the scripture/ which he condemneth in us off the whole.  
Against the reason I bring to prove/ that there were no Archflamines/ is answered that the matter is not great it standeth 
Diuis. 7. pag. ●●●.  upon the life of the Archbishop. For if it be found a Canturberye tale/ off Saint Peter's placing off Archbishops in place off Archflamynes: being not off the Apostles planting/ We may both boldlier/ and easilier pull him up by the roots. Then he saith/ an argument off human autorytye negative, is not good. Wherein I refer myself to that said before in that behalf/ and leave it to every man's consideration/ what likelihood there is that there were such/ when tully dyviding/ and distinguyshing the offices occupied about their God's/ maketh no mention off that/ supposed to have been chief. Where he asketh why the Grecians might not call him Archflamin, whom Tully called Flamen Dialis: I am content/ let that be trial. And if he can show me either Plutarch/ or Dyonisyus Halicarnaseus/ or any other good greek/ or latin ancient writer/ that there was any such office: I will move no further disputation in this matter. Therefore I would gladly know of you/ what pr●ph●●e 〈◊〉 they be which make mention off these Archflamines. For the fountains from which this report cometh/ are not ecclesiastical/ but papistical.  
Last of all/ to prove that there were Archflamines/ and withal to lay open my unskilfullnes in stories, it is alleged that there were such in England. But how doth he show my unskilfulness/ which showeth nothing wherein I prevented him not? I knew well that there were that said so/ I alleged them: but with what truth/ and fidelity/ that is the question. To deciding whereof beside reproaches/ what is brought? he will say peradventure M. Fox. If thou turn gentle reader tother side of the leaf/ wherowt the sentence is taken: thou shalt understand manifest treachery. for M. Fox disputeth against this opinion/ and useth divers reasons which confute flatly this fable/ off the conversion of England by Eleutherius Ambassadors: and setteth down that sentence by way of concession/ rather carried against his will by certain stories in this untruth/ then led by his own judgement. Note also that the D. is directly here for Harding/ against the Bishop of Sarum/ both in this fable/ off Eleutherius/ and the Archflamines. For touching archflamines he saith/ it is a mere fantasy, grounded upon an unsavoury fable off Clementes, and Anacletus: and that neither the name Archflamines, 
Apol pa 2. ca 4. d. 3.  or protaflamines, is to be found in any ancient allowed writer. and touching tother fable of Eleutherius/ objected by Harding as now by the D. he answereth/ it is untrue: adding reasons there to be seen. And that this fable whereof Geffrey Monumetensis 
Apol pa 1. ca 2. d 2  was author/ may better appear: having a little treatise thereof sent me with M. Fox's leaf/ well written in that behalf/ that in the profit the church shall receive/ the author also may have some fruit of his travail/ I will here set it down.  
Geffrey Monumetensis maketh here in britain before Lucius time/ 28. flamines/ and 3. Archflamines/ and when Lucius received the Christian faith/ that the 28. flamines were changed into 28. Bishops/ and the 3. Archflam. into 3. Archbishop's/ which had three seats in the three chief cities of the Isle/ London/ Yorck/ and Caerust. Unto London was subject Loegria/ unto Yorck Deira/ and Albanya/ unto Caerusk Cambry●. Thus all the Isle by this story of Geffrey/ should become Christened in Lucius time. But this could not come to pass upon Lucius receiving the Religion of Christ/ unless he had been king over all britain. Now the manner of the britains was not to have one king alone/ but many: as may most plainly appear both before Lucius time/ and after/ by the old Roman histories/ and also by Gildas the Brittany historiographer/ who lived about 1100. ago. Diodorus Siculus saith/ there are many kings/ and Frinces: 
lib. 5. ca 8  when he speaketh off Brytain/ showing what it was in the days of julius Cesar. After whom the Emperor that did attempt to subdue the Britons/ was Claudius'/ more than 50. years after that julius Cesar made war upon them: at which time what the government of Britons was in having Kings/ thus writeth Dion Cassius. The Britain's were not free, but subject 
In vita Claudiꝭ.  to divers Kings Now an hundredth year after this almost/ which is nigh the time that Lucius is said by Geffrey to be King of britain/ thus writeth Cornelius Tacitus. In times past they obeyed Kings, now by Princes they are distracted with factions, and parts taking, neither is there any other thing more profitable for us against most mighty nations, then that they take no comen counsel: it is seldom that two or three cities come together, to withstand a comen danger. so whilst they fight severally, they are overcomed wholly. This writeth Tacitus/ son in law off that Lucius Agricola/ who had the rule off this Isle 8. years continual in the reign of Domitian the Emperor: and therefore could not but well understand/ the manner of the Britaines in having at once many Princes/ given to tumults.  
Now in the days of Severus the Emperor/ who reigned by and by after this time/ in which Lucius is said King of Britain's: hear what is reported by a writer even of that age/ and 
Dion Cassius.  which was for the most part/ in the wars off the Romans himself. Amongst the Britons, the people for a great part have the rule. To conclude Gildas himself/ in his invective Epistle against the Britain's/ maketh mention of divers kings/ as living all at one time, but admit this were true/ that Lucius was King alone over all Britain: yet was he under the Roman deputy/ and could attempt no change of Religion/ specially the Roman/ and so universally as is supposed/ but with his allowance: the Britons having among them at that time/ so valiant a Roman deputy called Albinus/ of whom Severus then Emperor/ stood himself in some awe/ and durst attempt no wars abroad/ before he had first joined in sure amity with him. For 
a Dionifi. Halicarnassaeus.  to have flamines was proper to the Roman religion: 
b Cornel. Tacit. li. 14.  but Druids proper to the Britons. Which if at any time the Romans did put away/ to establish their own flamines (which doth not yet appear by any history) yet that could they not do over all Britain according to Geffreis' story/ but only so far as their own province did extend. For over all Britain they were never Lords: seeing that a 
c Dion. Cassius.  Roman (which saith he wrote that he saw) writeth thus. Part off this Island, is a little less than half ours: which when Severus would wholly subdue, he entered into Calidonia. For a little before these words/ he maketh the Britain's consist of two kinds of people/ whom be calleth Meatas/ and Calidonios'/ and that the Romans had in their power/ only the Meatas.  
Again consider what was the life of the Britaines in the days of Severus the Emperor/ who lived a little after that Lucius is said King of Britain: and it will appear most plainly/ that the Britons had not only no such show off a general/ and open Christian church established among them/ as setteth forth Geffrey: but also that they were far from any little taste of Christ. For thus it is written of them. They live in tents naked, 
Dion Cassius. in loco supra cita●o.  their wives are comen, etc. Is it like that a people that abuseth wines in comen/ had such a constituted form of a Christian church/ as Geffrey giveth to understand? or was there ever such barberousnes off going naked of men/ and women/ where the word of God was taught? which commandeth not only modesty/ but semelynes. It is therefore rather true/ which that old father Gildas/ their own country man speaketh of them: the Britain's received the faith off Christ, even from the coming off Christ, and in the days of Tiberius the Emperor: but that was not publicly nor universally by authority of Prince/ but of some few/ and off those how? Of some Koldly, of some sound. and how long? until the times of Dioclesian the Tyrant: which was after Lucius/ at lest 132. years.  
But if we will narrowly exact this story of Geffrey/ it will hardly fall out/ that Lucius himself become a Christian/ according to his delivering off the sterie. For he saith it came to pass by means off Eleutherius/ woe was made bishop of Rome in the days of Commodus the Emperor/ anno 180. and yet maketh Lucius to die an 156. so by that reckoning/ Lucius become Christian after he was dead/ at lest xxiv years. Further if we well mark/ after what long blindness of time/ this story cometh to light/ and in what defect of any old/ and good writer to keep the memory thereof: I dare warrant you/ it will prove but a fable. The time when this is said to be done/ lacketh a good deal off 200. years after Christ: a thousand years after this we have no known writer/ neither off our own/ not foreign/ that maketh any little report off this change off Archflaminrickes into archbishoprickes/ until the time of Geffrey: who was made bishop of S. Ass/ in the day of Henry the second. And from whence fetcheth he this story? it may be some will say/ he had it off the old Britain's/ and was by him only turned into latin. but how likely is this to be true? when old Gildas dealeth thus plainly/ in report off his own country monuments. The monuments 
In his epistle aforesaid  of writers, if there were any, be either burnt by fire of enemies: or by navy of citizens exiled, carried far off, do not appear.  
But if any man will say/ perhaps this book of Geffrey was one of those so carried away/ and afterwards found he woteth not where/ was brought home again: this besides it is off it self but a conjecture/ is also plainly refuted by Geffrey himself: who writeth story almost off 200. years after Gildas/ and hath the bistorie of Bede in some places/ even word for word. That I speak nothing of his untruth/ and toto childish errors in many places/ especially when he maketh report off any matter of ancient time: which might be some argument also/ to draw from him opinion of antiquity. After that Geffrey had once coived this story/ there lack no writers which also make mention thereof: but so as they make some change off his report. As Platina/ who maketh but 25. flamines. and 3. Archflamines: belike 
in vita Eleutherij.  moved by the Epistle of Gildas/ who maketh the number of all the cities in Britain/ to be but 28. although he allege for his author Ptolomey. Thus far this author: upon all which matter may appear/ what follies they be which the D. avoucheth for truth/ and whereupon he hath laid the foundation of his archbishop.  
You shall not be able to show that the bishops which the apostles planted were other, than which with th'elders had the oversight 
Divis. 8. Pag. 324.  of one particular congregation: and therefore your proofs are always by other things/ as doubtful as the question in hand. And if that were true/ yet maketh it nothing for the archbishop. For what sinews are in this argument? The Apostles placed bishops in every city, therefore an Archbishop overseer of them in every province. After he saith/ if by a pillar of antichrist you understand him or him: as if I had not sufficiently showed whom I ment. Who can patiently answer this wandering where the way is so plainly beaten? and this is his comen practice to piece out his answer. Thirdly he saith/ he may take reports of Antiquities from the papists: no man hindereth him. But if he will take their report in their own cause/ and in a matter invented to advance the credit of the romish seat/ that whilst Peter is made the founder of Archbishops/ and patriarchs/ the Pope his supposed successor/ might have the stewardship of them/ and they be the easilier holden in his obedience: if I say he will believe such stories/ it is to be feared lest it be the lords anger against him: whereby it is just that they should believe lies/ which will not believe the truth. And if the sentet of the archbishop had so occupied his sense/ that he hath not smelt this fraud of the papists/ and the cause hereof: 
Distinct. 22. Diuis. 9 pag. 325.  he might have learned it of Gratian/ who carrieth this whole fable unto that end.  
You wipe not away the filth of the times wherein Volusianus wrote/ and him you purge not: who (by that he is so deep in his mass) appeareth to have been defiled with it. And where you say/ it is not like that he would writ any thing in that matter, which he had not certainly learned of worthy writers: I pray you what worthier writers could there be in this behalf/ then Denis bishop of Corinthe/ and Euseb? I am sure he could not fetch further than these. So that from whom soever he took it (if he received it of any): it is clear he received it off those/ which being further of the apostles times/ can have no credit herein/ further than they show forth the authors of their report. but to make rheum for the archbishop/ we must believe those things as certain/ which neither are now/ nor yet were then extant when Eusebius wrote/ which gathered his story of writers before his time: and not only testimonies which never were/ but whereof the bore names are not to be found. Whereas the manner of writers is/ when they allege any thing that the former times had not spoken off/ as at the finding of some great treasure/ to note the means how that fell into their hands.  
Against the authority alleged out of Eusebius/ that Denys was bishop/ is opposed that it is a negative argument of autorisie: which is an engine to wring out of the church's hands/ a singular means which all the writers of our times/ use against the forgeries of the Papists. For when they reason against the forged Epistles/ against Chrisostomes' leytourgie/ against the bastard writings of Augustine/ etc. that there are things contained in them which no writer of that age wherein they are supposed to have writ/ maketh mention off; the D. hath taught an easy answer/ that it is an evil argument of authority negatively/ and that it followeth not that there were no such things then/ because they were not mentioned in their writings. Likewise when the bishop of Salis. made this challenge after performed/ that it could not be showed out of any allowed writer 600. Years after Christ/ that there was any mention off such/ and such things maintained by popery: the Answ. hath with one word/ wiped away the profit off all those travails. for it may be answered/ that such things were/ although none made mention of them. The Papists in their defences have hard foreheads: but I think there is scarce found amongst them/ that would not blush at such an answer. Yet this is almost the salve for all sores/ namely where I have showed/ that in none of the writers within certain hundred yearés after christ/ which have filled their books with the mention of bishops/ there is any the least mention of an Archbishop. Against which riot off answer oftentimes repeated/ it shall be sufficient once here to have spoken generally.  
Now I come to that more proper to this place/ that histories are not so curious in calling men by their several titles: because we use to call the bishops of Canturbery, and York, oftener by name of bishop than archbishop. But he should understand/ that it is one thing to speak after the comen sort: and an other to writ to the approbation of the learned. And when there is no kind of writing so narrowly bound to the observation of circumstances of place/ time/ person/ as a story: it must bring a great mist in it/ to put no difference between a bishop/ and an Archbishop: considering that that pertaineth to the policy of the church/ whereunto they had regard. So that although he use some liberty of speech in other places: yet in this place it was more insufferable/ and that so continually/ in Denys twice/ in james/ in the bishop of Rome/ of Alexandria/ etc. he might without reprehension have spoken so once/ or twice: but him perpetually to call all Archbishop's bishops/ I think you will hardly persuade any man of judgement. And if there had been any such titles allowed: it would have appeared in the superscriptions of bishops to archbishops. At lest the lower degrees of Deacons/ and Elders would have acknowledged it/ as both duty/ and honest civility requireth: otherwise if the archbishops had been froward/ they would not have read the letters. But not Eusebius only/ Denys the Bishop/ who wrote unto the church of Athenes/ so called him even in that place/ where 
Euseb. li. 3. ca 4. & 4. 23.  (if he could truly) he would have awakened those of Athenes/ with the honourable mention of Denis their former archbishop: and not have let pass that weight of authority/ to have made his admonition more sounding.  
Furthermore if Eusebius had spoken so unproperly: he is yet to be charged with further confusion. For he assigneth him a parish/ which is a territory belonging unto a simple bishop: and not a province/ which is an archbishop's kingdom. If therefore he confounded archbishop with bishop: at lest he should have spoken dinstinetly off their charges. Last of all/ how idle a pharisee this is off Denises archbishopric/ may be considered forasmuch as Euseb. in both places by me alleged/ calleth him the first bishop of Athenes. And that he was first in those parts may easily be seen/ for that it was the wisdom of the holy ghost/ to settle first the Gospel in the mother towns/ and head places of dominion●: that from thence it might have passage to places round about/ as the practice in the Acts doth declare. Now if he were the first bishop chosen after the conversion of Athenes: by the D. saying he was made Archbishop/ before there were any other bishops to oversee. But forasmuch as th'archbishop is in the number of those which hung of other/ and that there could be no archbishop where there were no bishops/ nor bishop where there were no churches round about: it is brought to pass/ that there being no bishops in those parts/ at that time when Saint Paul ordained Denys bishop: he can by no means be thowght to have ordained him archbishop. And that which I have said in this point against the archbishopric of Denis (the last only excepted) is to be understanded off james/ Titus/ Timothe/ etc.  
If a spade be but a spade/ and a fig but a fig: then a bishop is but a bishop. Then also Erasmus saying (alleged pag. 405.) 
Diuis. 10. pag. 325.  that Timothe was a bishop/ and no where that he was an archbishop/ affirmeth that he was but a bishop. Neither doth this make against, but for me. For if Erasmus speaking but of two/ called one of them archbishop: is it like that Eusebius speaking of so many/ supposed archbishop's/ called never one of them by their proper name? neither will I stick to confess/ that Erasmus deceived with the corruption of times wherein he lived/ spoke as he thowght: imagining Titus an Archbishop/ as left in Creta an Isle/ and Timothe a simple bishop/ as left in one city. But it is good to observe by the way/ how the Ans. building with one hand/ overthroweth with the other. For let all men that have but a grain of salt/ judge how likely it is/ that Timothe was Archbishop: when so many writers both old and new/ yea some in those times that archbishops were/ speaking of him: not one calleth him archbishop/ but all bishop/ as in his treatise may appear. but thus their tongues must be confounded/ that build up Babylon. 
Pa. 404.  As for Titus whom Erasmus calleth archbishop/ to make his authority of any weight/ he must needs raise that title either of some name given unto him in the scripture: or of some effect which he was known to execute/ proper to an archbishop: or else of some ancient writer. But he could not raise it of any title the scripture giveth him/ there being none such: nor off any thing Titus did/ forasmuch as there is nothing done of him/ which the Ans. affirmeth not to be comen to every bishop/ nothing prescribed to him/ which was not prescribed to Timothe/ whom Erasmus calleth simply bishop: nor off any ancient writer/ there being none brought/ nor as I am persuaded can be brought: therefore it is clear/ that Erasmus calling Titus archbishop hath no weight: as one which spoke according to the corruption of time/ wherein he lived.  
The rest of this divis. is answered before: for the next/ let it 
In 3 diui. pag. 320.  be judged how you have overthrown that alleged/ touching Timothe/ and Tite being Evangelists. I will also refer to the reader's judgement/ what unlearnedness it is to confute authority by better authority: and in what place the D. will have us receive men's authority/ when he will not have them controlled by other men. How by this means he that hath the first place to speak/ may stop the mouth off all that follow: forasmuch as it shall be unlawful for them/ either out of the authors which the first speaker alleged/ or any other/ to oppose a contrary sentence. How also this being so unlearnedly done of me/ is notwithstanding learned in him: which hath used it divers times. I leave also to be judged/ how to the purpose he hath alleged these examples of justice, and chief justice, seeing I helped him with this kind of division: and it might have easily appeared that my argument was/ that forsomuch as the Scoliast called them simply bishop: therefore it could not be thowght/ that he esteemed them archbishops/ which is opposite member in this division. Last of all how absurdly is it said/ that he which calleth an archbishop a bishop/ speaketh properly? When he that hath little more than learned his Grammar/ knoweth that it is a Trope/ wherein the general is taken for the special: which is contrary to proper speech. 
Diuis. 12. pag. 326. etc.   
To the first reason/ I have showed what might lead Erasmus / to call Titus' archbishop over Crete/ and not Timothe over Ephesus. To the second/ I am content that my reason off framing titles according to times, be nothing worth: if Erasmus in a matter of divinity/ and having the vail off corrupt times to hinder his sight/ could not be deceived: which erred in many things, and in those he saw was oft more 
* That is halting of both sides.  Cretian/ than Christian. The third (Erasmus did not give Titus a title according to the custom of that age wherein himself lived, for that there was then no bishop of Crete, ●s there was of Rome when Vincentius lived) is senseless. considering that my answer is apparante/ that in speaking of Titus/ he applied himself to the custom which had prevailed in all places/ off calling the bishops of the metropolitan cities/ archbishop's: which this answer towchech not. Let him show one approved author for the name of archbishop/ or patriarch once only used in Eusebius time/ or before/ to note the superiority off one bishop over all his fellows/ and we will all clap our hands unto him: if he can not/ then it is shame to say/ those names were usual in Eusebius tyme. That Nicephorus spoke no otherwise of Victor than you have set down/ it is all one to me: which purposed to show that he spoke otherwise/ then either Eusebius/ or the truth would suffer/ having regard unto the times wherein he lived So that my untrue reports of authors, are such as they are no more beficiall to my cause/ then if I had used their very words. For my answer made unto Volusianus/ and Erasmus/ that men use to speak/ and to think for the most part of things past/ by the measure off things present: if it had no examples to warrant it with/ yet it is so manifest/ and sensible/ that I durst barely leave it to the conscience of all. and if the D. would give the rule of his tongue/ but a little into the hand of his conscience: I dowbt not but he would also confess it? Howbeit we have a manifest example in the Centuries/ which confessing there was no Metropolitan 
Cent. 3. c. 7. pag. 368.  in Cyprians time/ call him Metropolitan Another in Cornelius/ whom M. Philpot calleth patriarch of Rome: when all know that there was no patriarch many years after him. last of all/ when it happened unto me to call Cyprian Metropolitan/ which am an enemy to that estate (as I am also charged therewith by the 
pag. 470.  D.) following therein the custom of the times which followed: 
pag. 470.  how much more might that befall to others/ which had no such combat with that office? That next containing vain excuses/ to salve either his ignorance/ or his unfaithfulness/ I have 
a Diuis. 1. pag. 319.  answered. His escape that james called bishop by Eusebius (to whom may be adjoined 
b in catalogoscripillust.  Jerome) yet might be Archbishop, I have 
c Diuis. 9 pag. 325  confuted. The plenty of testimonies for the Archbishop, brought now/ hideth not his poverty in his first book. for all may know that this harvest came in sithence. For the exposition of Ireneus/ which interpreteh (they, every one severally: if they severally ordained bishop every one in his circuit/ so it be understanded with the church's consent, as is before 
d in 2. Tract. Diuis. 14. pag. 329.  declared: I am well content.  
If the error of my argument had been so gross, as your sight had perceived it: I had been sure to have heard of it. Whatsoever/ and how many causes soever you assign of appoincting an archbishop: yet this is a perfect division of the subject/ that forsomuch as the archbishopric (if any ought to be) must needs be both in some person/ and place: not found by th'apostles ordination which knew the best government/ neither in that person/ nor place both most fittest/ and most likest to receive it: it must follow that it ought not to be. As for your exception of the time: first it is your manner that you might be thowght to have store off answer/ to make four of one. for whereas the time, and persons to be governed, the suppression of sects, and peace of the church▪ are put for several causes: it is manifest that one time maketh no difference of government from another/ but in respect of the persons governed: nor the persons themselves/ but in respect of their contentions/ and alteration of disposition. Then it shall appear after/ that the times of persecution such as those) were the fittest for that office: if that had been convenient.  
This Archbishop said to be the officer of order/ confoundeth all order/ and changeth all: an Evangelist into a bishop/ a bishop 
Diuis. 15. pag. 329.  into an Archbishop/ a archbishop into an apostle/ an Apostle into an Archbishop which follies are before confuted. If S. john were Archbishop/ or did an Archbishop's office in those places/ where he abode: then the other Apostle. in their circuits did the like/ and were likewise Archbishops over them/ and the bishop there. so it followeth that either there were no Archbishops in the Apostles times: or if there were any/ they had nothing to do/ their offices being not yet fallen/ but in the Apostles hands. And if the Ans. will needs have S. john's antoritie/ the pose to measure out the Archbishop's authority it must follow that forasmuch as he had the care/ and oversighte of all churches in the world: the Archbishop must have the same. For the next section/ let the reader judge/ whether I have dealt sincerely: and whether in saying Anaclete, and Anicete are but suspected, although he add (not without just cause) he leave to them some credit. For the next also (of the year wherein the Nicene council was holden) being not to purpose/ although I could maintain the account I followed/ I will leave the Ans. in his earnest disputation: whose practice is to handle trifles earnestly/ and earnest things triflingly  
The leap is as great as I have said/ and consequently as 
Divis. 18. Pag. 331. etc.  dangerous to tharchbishops'archbishop's neck. For it falleth still forth/ that for the space off 300. years from the time of the Apostles/ there is no syllable in any one approved author/ off any either archbishop/ or Metropolitan. for as for the Canons attributed unto the Apostles (those only excepted which are to be found in their writings) being as is agreed amongst men of any judgement/ gathered off divers counsels in sundry times: that which is here alleged off the Ans. was by all likelihood drawn out of the council of Antioch/ having almost the very words thereof saving as it cometh to pass/ it being somewhat later/ is somewhat worse. The council of Antioch/ a good while after that of Nice/ can not make the fall off th'archbishop les dangerous. As for the fable off Archbishops in England in Euleutherius time/ it is before confuted. So that if a Metropolitan were all one with an Archbishop: yet he is destitute of the testimony of the purest/ and best times. Where the D. thinketh those words of the council off Nice (Let the ancient custom be kept) will save his neck, and his body from harm: he is deceived. For this word ancient/ being in number of those/ which have relation/ and depend of others: signifieth a greater/ or smaller time according to the things wherewith it is compared/ or hath relation unto. so that that may be/ and often is called ancient/ which is but of very few years: and which other sometime can not be so called/ without a greater number. The bishops therefore comparing that decree/ with other made at that time/ and not before/ called that an ancient custom.  
And it can be no strange kind of speech for the ministers being assembled together/ to speak off a matter continued a score off provincial Synods/ and holden in the space off 10. years/ after this sort: In such and such things, we will keep our old custom. And that it could not be long before the council off Nice beside no testimony to the contrary▪ Aeneas Sy●uius giveth this for us: before the Nicene council every bishop lived 
Epist. 288  unto himself, and small regard was had to the bishops of home. But admit it had been so before the council off Nice/ 20. yea 30. years yet by your own count/ there is no mention of him all that time which I have affirmed/ which is 300. years after our Saviour Christ's ascension. Now therefore that the ancienty of the Metropolitan/ appeareth not by this council to be other/ then I alleged: Let us see what credit it ought to have to prove that this decree of theirs was good. For thereunto the D. regardeth when he saith/ the notable, and famous council off Nice, must be off all wise, and learned men next unto the scriptures reverenced, etc. It is sure that having regard to the decision of the different/ touching the perfect unity of substance/ of our Saviour Christ with God the Father/ it giving sentence upon the unfallible word of God/ is worthy to be reverenced. But if the D. will have their soundness in that point/ authorize the rest/ and that our reverence to it should close up our mouths/ from demanding from whence the other canons come/ what ground they have: it is that which we can by no means consent unto.  
And that it may appear how justly we call this canon of the council/ unto the towch stone of the word of God/ let it be considered what is ordained of them in the 12. and 23. Canons after Ruffian: where they prescribe seven years unto one fallen in. 
1. lib. 6. c.  to Idolatry/ all which time (unless very repentant) they forbidden him the supper of the lord: where also it keepeth out one which coming from the war returneth thither again/ by the space off thirteen years/ etc. which severity (to let pass the rest) as it is against the rule of S. Paul: so it could not but put a halter 
2. Cor. 2. 7  in the devils hand/ to snare a number of souls with all. what corruption there was further at that time/ either by ignorance/ or ambition/ may appear by that if one Paphenutius had not been: they had all concluded against the honourable society of bishops 
1. lib. Soc. 11. cap. / elders/ and Deacons with their lawful wives. If the Ans. say/ these errors were but the errors of those bishops only/ but the canon of a Metropolitan hath beside their allowance/ the approbation of the former times also/ so that unless their single authority be not able to way it down/ yet helped with the ancient custom before/ it will carry it away: I answer 
Ibid.  that in the same council appeareth/ that to those chosen unto the ministry unmarried/ it was not lawful to take any wife afterwards: only being married before entrance into the ministry/ it was lawful for them to use the benefit of that marriage. And Paphenutius showeth/ that not only this was before that council: but was an ancient tradition of the church/ which both himself/ and the rest of the council rested in. what soever credit therefore in any respect/ cometh unto the Metropolitan by this sixth canon: the same in every: point cometh to this so great a corruption/ that neither single ministers might marry/ nor those which entered married/ might after death of their wives marry again If the fame of the council can not wipe away the infamy of this: neither can it of that: and if the ancient tradition of the church/ do not authorize the one: neither can ancient custom/ authorize the other.  
The Ans. before/ for one only error touching rebaptising/ 
Pag. 147.  casteth away the whole council of Carthage: I will not deal so rowghly with the council off Nice only I desire that their authority be lifted up no higher/ then it hath state of the word off God. Howbeit it must not be let go in this canon off Nice (which is the overthrow of all that the Ans hath said before) that saying this was old custom, it confesseth thereby that it was no ordinance of God whereas if it came from S. Peter/ Paul/ etc. they would have said according to the institution of the Apostles. it is also worthy to be observed/ that the jurisdiction the Metrapolitanès had in their provinces/ was before only voluntary/ and unconstrained: for that this was the first time/ that any law passed of it: which noted of me in an other place/ is here well confirmed. so that these words the old custom, which the D. putteth so great affaince in/ if he make his accounts well/ shall be found to have been a reed of Egypte unto him: whereupon he leaning/ is not stayed but pricked.  
To prove that the name of archbishop was not before the 
Diuis. 19 pag. 332.  council off Nice/ nor within three hundred years after the ascension of our Saviour/ I show that there is no mention of him in Theophilus/ Ignatius/ Clemens Alexandrinus/ justine/ Martyr/ Ireneus/ Tertullian/ Origine/ Cyprian/ in the histories out of which Eusebius gathereth his story/ nor in Eusebius/ nor (in a word) in no allowed writer/ neither greek nor latin/ within that space. The D. asketh whether the council off Nice, Antioch, Epiphanius, etc. be not as good? all which are both later writers than those I alleged: and after the 300. years before assigned. So that to prove the antiquity of the name off Archbishop/ and Metropolitan/ he saith in effect/ it is all one to allege the stories/ and writers which came after/ as those which went before: and to prove that these names were with in 300. years after Christ/ he allegeth stories/ and other writers which testify these titles to have been after 300. years: which how absurd it is/ all men understand. And what likelihood off trwth it hath/ that these names were within 300. years/ and odd/ when as not one only writer having so often occasion to speak of them/ doth once name them: it may be considered partly of that the bishop writeth. For as he asked Harding/ was there no man in the world for the space off 600. years, able to express the name off universal 
Art. 4. diuis. 31.  bishop: So I ask the D. was there none in the world by the space off 300. years/ and odd/ able to express the metrapolitans name? no man for the space almost of 400. years/ able to express the archbishop's name? partly also I leave it to be considered/ off that I have said before.  
Then he must understand/ that as those stories/ and writers he allegeth/ make nothing to prove that antiquity which he supposeth: so they being further from the Apostles times/ and nearer unto the time of Antichrist/ are not off so good credit/ to prove the lawfulness off that either office/ or name/ as if they had had testimony of the purer times. moreover of these six authors which he maketh mention off/ two wroote after 400. years: all the rest wrote from about 350. years/ unto the prick off 400. And although he hath brought out so small a number: yet he must be feign to cut off half of them/ as those which make no mention off the archbishop. for neither chrysostom/ nor Jerome/ no not Ambrose (as shall appear) in their so great works/ make any mention off him. Where I showed that as the ced●● of Liban can not be hidden amongst the Box trees, so the archbishop could not have been hidden in the ancient writings amongst the other ministers: and further/ that if he were, he was contemned of them, which once would not defile their pen by writing of him: the Answ. as though these pertained not to the matter/ under colour of calling them frumps, passeth by them whereas a few such frumps will break the archbishops back/ if they be not better looked unto.  
The Ans. can never be holden in the rails off any lawful form of disputation. All men see that whatsoever he heapeth 
Diuis. 2●. Pag. 3, 8▪ etc.  up/ toucheth not my reply. For he ought to improve the signification which I have set down/ off the word Metrapolitan bishop: which is, to be nothing else then bishop of that city, which it pleaseth the Emperor, or Prince to make chief: and therefore that ●f the office swell no more than the name/ there is great difference between his/ and tharchbishops'archbishop's name. This because he could not do/ the signification being so clear: he starteth a side/ and goeth about to prove/ that Metropolitan and Archbishop are taken for the same. when the question is not here how they are taken/ but what the words signify. If he had showed that the word metropolitan bishop/ is as lofty in signification/ as the word archbishop: then he had spoken to the purpose. Beside this/ in a matter that is in controversy amongst writers/ he maketh his profess by bore authorities: the controversy being not only between the Civilities, and canonists, but also between others of our tyme.  
Likewise it is to be observed/ how evil he hath peeced these together/ bringing in M Caluin contrary unto Master Fox/ in that the one maketh a Metropolitan/ and Archbishop to differ from a Patriarch/ the other maketh them all one. M. Fox also to differ from himself: which in the second place alleged out of him/ maketh difference between a metropolitan/ and primate: in the third/ maketh them all one. Beside that also he is beside the forowgh of his cause/ he gaineth not that which he goeth abowght. For let us admit that a metropolitan/ and Archbishop are taken for the same: yet thereof followeth not/ that the name off an archbishop was in the church as soon as the name of Metropolitan. For unless a Prophet/ and a seer be all one/ astranger/ 
1. Sam. 9 9 Cicero 1 officiorum  and an enemy in war betokened one thing: yet neither have the words the same signification/ neither were they all at one time/ but came one after another. For I would gladly know whether it seem unto him/ that all these titles Metropolitan/ Archbishop/ Primate/ and Patriarch/ came in at a clap. if there be no likehoode in this: it followeth that his authors meaning is not/ that these names were all at the council off Nice: but after they crept into the church/ were attributed unto one/ and the same office of metrapolitanship/ specified in that council. For the authority over other bishops/ which is gone about by this Nicene council/ to be proved like to that of our archbishops: that I make not with the Answ. a confusion of all/ I will (God willing) show in place/ how the Nicene/ and Antiochen Metropolitan/ have beside the name/ almost nothing in comen with our Archbishops.  
Here will be no confession: it was not enough for the Answ. before to allege these forged canons without correction/ 
Diuis. 20. pag. 334.  yea with commendation: but even now also detected/ rather than he will yield to the truth/ the comen enemy must have the advantage. He will not forsooth greatly stick in the defence of these canons: then he will not give them quite over. There is no small controversy (he saith) about the number of canons of this council: and a little after/ there is great difference in writers for the number of the canons. Let him name one (Papists excepted) that ever moved controversy about this number of 70 and 80. canons which he talketh off. Athanasius in an Epistle that he as some think writeth, etc. what some are those? Pighius/ Hosius/ Harding/ and their likes/ and they do but say it: for that they did think so/ there being neither colour/ nor shadow of truth in that so kold a devise/ it is hardly to be thowght. He saith after/ he hath done nothing strange in alleging these canons. I grant: for he hath those spoken of before/ to keep him company. And in the next diui. to make up the matter/ he alleged not those canons as the undowbted canons of the council off Nice, but as probable. Is it in deed probable/ that there was such filth in the church/ in the time of the Nicene council/ as those canons you alleged make mention of?  
The reasons whereby he would bring some credit unto these canons/ be to light. For where he reckoneth up certain things found in other writers/ not contained in those canons: he should have known that there might be other things handled in that council/ which were not brought into canons. For example/ that which he reciteth out of Ambrose/ touching the second marriage of the clerks, was talked on in the council/ as I have showed before: but yet there was no canon made off it/ as may appear by the stories before alleged. For it was brought in/ not as a thing whereof they would consult: but alleged as a reason by Paphnutius/ to bar that which they would otherwise have decreed. As for the council of Arles: it speaketh not of the council off Nice/ but only of a great Synod: and to restrain that to that council/ is but a friarly note/ which the gatherer of the counsels maketh/ to get some credit to those 70. canons/ which the Ans. would thrust upon us. There were things alleged in the council/ which those nigh the times wherein it was holden/ might come to the knowledge off by report off those present at the council: which make nothing for proof of a greater number off canons▪ For it is not like that the Canons of the Nicene council/ whereof every Bishop through the world (as the Bishop of Salisbury proveth) had a copy/ were lost. And if there were such a number as he would have us believe: yet when the ancient writers which follow so near the council/ or lived in that time/ could not come to the knowledge of them: is it like that this upstart/ not led with any desire off search off antiquity / but as appeareth with a devilish appetite of advancing the seat of antichrist/ should discover such a hoard of Canons? But if this new recorder seem unto you to have brought the other canons to light: then belike he hath those you cite out of the Council of Arles/ off Jerome/ and Ambrose. if not (wherein I refer the reader unto the Canons/ not having the book:) than it might have been argument/ that those canons came not out of any store house off learned monuments/ but out of his one forge.  
You say you agreed with the bishop of Salisbury in his reply against Harding touching the canon he allegeth. The truth is that you have done the best you can/ to overthrowt the whole defence of the bishop in that behalf: which standeth in proof that those be counterfaicte/ and that there were no other canons of the Nicene council/ then are commonly extant. And where you say/ hardings canon must needs be counterfeit, because it is contrary to the canons of that council, but that which you have alleged, and in those points which you have alleged them, to be of the same substance the. 6. and 7. first those new canons being off one litter/ if you give credit to one/ you can not take it away altogether from the rest. Secondly all those canons which are not contrary to any thing determined in the council off Nice/ have by this answer gotten that credit/ which the authority/ and name of the Nicene council can give them. So that a number off wicked things which the Council off Nice spoke not against/ contained within these canons/ are commenced by the Ans. for decrees off the great Nicene Council/ which were long after decreed in the Pope's kitchen.  
Thirdly where he saith the: 25. 26. 27. differ from the 6. and 7. but in number, and not in substance: beside that he taketh still for granted which he should prove/ he imagineth all those learned fathers of that Council/ destitute of judgement/ and comen sense: which in setting down one/ and the self same canon four times/ might worthily have been esteemed as babbling divines/ as Bat●us a Pocte. And if the Council had been so grossly overseen: yet how cometh it to pass/ that that escaped the abridgers? Which are said for shortness sake/ to have brought the 80, Canons into 70. last of all/ to make this answer good/ the reader must believe/ 〈◊〉 only that some of these canons which this forger hath added be true/ and some false: but (for as much as in the Canons alleged/ the D. now seeth that all in them contained/ can not befathered of the Nicene council) that in the same canon/ one piece is truly/ and another falsely fathered. As if we should not only not take them for brethren/ which were begotten of one father: but in one/ and the same child/ to esteem that the head/ and the foot is base/ and the arms/ and legs with the rest of the body/ begotten in lawful matrimony. Thus it cometh to pass/ that as the deformity of the visage is not helped/ but made worse by peinting so the D. fault/ which might have had some excuse in that he was abused/ by this vain defence is inexcusable. Where upon I will leave to the reader (which followeth in the next divisi.) whether upon light credit unto some dissembling papists, he received these things with out examination: and whether in avoiding that/ he maketh himself guilty of a greater fault.  
Where have I refused ambrose for an historical witness? pertaineth this to the story/ whether an Archbishop be profitable for 
Divis. 22. & 23. pag. 336.  the church/ or no? whether he were or no/ pertaineth: but whether meet/ or unmeet/ is without the bounds of story. You had set down that Ambrose allowed of an Archbishop: provoked by me/ you can not show off his allowance. And yet because you put me in remembrance of the story witness/ when I considered that neither the rest of his writings/ nor other writers of the same ancienty/ and quarters/ as Jerome/ and Augustine/ mention an Archbishop: it made me suspect greatly/ that there was corruption in that place. After seeing how proudly/ and swellingly he speaketh off bishops/ and how basely off kings/ saying the bishops are gold, and kings in comparison of them but lead, and kings must put their nekes under the knees of the bishops, and kiss their right hand (which speeches are ●a● unlike Ambrose style of kings): considering also that Erasm. nippeth that book in the head/ I assure myself that it is a false Ambrose/ and therefore that testimony to be of no force. Wherein I am yet further confirmed by Ambrose own testimony/ who saying it is comely, that there 
1. li. office cap. 50.  should be equality in the churches: which taketh away bishop's dominion. For seeing that can not be understanded off the whole company of the church: it is manifest that it must be restrained unto the ministers thereof. and saving this advantage/ I answer to the next divis. that it shall appear after how strange the name off the Archbishop was at that time.  
For that alleged out off the Centuries/ Ambrose was Metropolitan off divers churches joined together: besides that you take that for granted which is in controversy/ that is to say that the name of Metropolitan/ and Archbishop be all one: you ought to have showed the reasons whereby they say so. For seeing they have not that they written by revelation: in a matter of controversy they ought no further to be believed/ then they show reason. Otherwise I can oppose also authority which saith in plain words/ Ambrose was a bishop not of a whole province, or of 
johannes Costerius in vita Ambros.  many cities, but off one only city. whose testomony yet is so much more of credit/ then that off the Centuries/ as by a nearer sight into Ambros. works which he reviewed/ he was better able to give judgement in this matter: then they which occupied in reading off so many/ could not perform that diligent in all/ which he in that author he especially laboured in.  
That I said of the Archbishop (if any were) ruling the action wherein the bishops were ordained/ and after the action ended having no more authority than the rest/ is unconfuted/ by any writer you allege. Caluin (the ignorance of whose writings, with all otther, you object unto me) doth not only not speak against it: but saith in some respect more than I For I speak this only of the Archbishop/ alleged out of the counterfeit Ambrose: but he (as I have showed) saith generally of those ancient times/ that the 
Diuis. 71. pag. 418.  office of the Archbishop was rarely used. And that I said not (as you use) withow reason: but with those reasons which you lifting at/ can not move. For where I showed it not hke that one Archbishop ordained bishops/ but other bishops with him/ 
Diuis. 24. pag. 336.  whose voices he gathered/ the ancient councils expressly forbidding that: you say you showed it not strange at that time, for a bishop alone to ordain ministers. Which thing how untrue it is/ I refer myself to that before said. And if you had showed it: yet 
in 2. Tra.  you making difference between a minister/ and a bishop/ in proving that one bishop only ordained ministers/ have not proved that one bishop ordained bishops. And in saying that Ambrose is to be understanded, of that done by all bishops in all places: you make them all guilty of breach off canons of the general councils in that behalf. Which how untrue it is/ may likewise appear by that before said. Then how vain is it/ that for that the people had 
in 2. Tra.  to do in the bishop's election, one bishop alone without other his fellows, did ordain? After he asketh. Where is now my distinction of election, and ordination. first I declared that they being for the most part distinguished/ are sometime taken for one. Secondly I have uttered no word whereby it is once touched. Thirdly if I had taken it away: yet: he same toucheth not this matter/ as he saith/ but neither showeth/ nor can show how. only having nothing to answer/ he speaketh in the clouds: where he is so far from being understood of others/ that I think he understood not himself.  
His answer (Ambrose ment not of the Archbishop in the province where himself was bishop) is first upholden by flat begging of 
Divis. 25. Pag. 337:  divers things in controversy: as whether an archbishop/ and metrapolitan be all one/ whether Ambrose were metropolitan/ and whether being/ he had authority himself to forbidden such disorders. Secondly that he allegeth to remove it from Ambrose's province/ maketh rather against him. For if that corruption he complained of/ were in all places: than it was in his province also: Where he saith I am deceived, that I think he wrote his book for his own diocese only: my words import no such thing. it is enough for me if in the province where he was/ this corruption had place: the further he will stretch those words/ the depelier he woundeth the government of the archbishop. But this is more than duty/ unto that counterfeit Ambrose.  
What truth this devise hath/ I am content it be judged of the 
Divis 26. Pag. 337.  reasons before alleged. my quotation of the Centuries, was easy to found? if you had not help of the table/ the time it self would quickly have directed you. it is in the beginning of the chapter which you alleged/ so that if you had read any more than served for your turn: you should have found how he affirming/ that in those days there were but three principal degrees of the clergy/ bishop/ elder/ and deacon: allegeth for proof Ambrose. The name of Archbishop out of Sozomen. maketh not against this. considering that he writing about the year 430. calleth Simeon Archbishop/ according to the time wherein he written/ and not wherein Simion lived. Neither doth the place of Epiphanius (alleged after out of the Centuries) make against this. For albeit the name of Archbishop was in his time/ which lived either in Ambrose's time/ or somewhat before: yet there is no likelihood that it was then received in the latin churches/ seeing none of their writers of those times/ once make mention off that name. And it is certain that it being a greek name/ was first received in the greek churches/ and east parts/ or ever it came into the latin/ and west.  
Now for this great show the A. bringeth into the stage/ they are scarce worth the looking on: they shall have therefore a short answer. their authority shall be considered after/ being here altogether out of place/ and contrary to the little of his chapter/ and (according to the old custom of repetitions) propounded after: I here therefore deal only with the names. And first for that of Metrapolitan: it is showed that it is not the same in signification with the Archbishops: it is confessed that it was in the time of the council off Nice/ before which it can not be showed/ in any allowed writer. for where the D. citeth the Centuries/ which call Cyprian which was before it/ Metrapolitan: they do so call him according to the custom of times which followed/ as is before proved out of their own testimony. As for the name of Primate/ the first tidings of it is a great while after 400. years: which is without our compass. for the name off an Archbishop/ the first mention alleged of him in any council/ is near upon 500 years.  
Where it is said/ the name of an Archbishop is attributed unto Athanasius: he should have told who doth attribute that name/ and than he had had his answer. For neither in his works/ nor in any ancient writer that speaketh of him/ is it found. Indeed a Lou●nist doth so call him: but he hath no credit in this cause. Where he allegeth that the name of Archbishop is found in the 2. Apology of Athanasius: if he show▪ Athanasius himself speaking so in his own language/ I believe him: if he can not/ he must change his style/ and in steed of Athanasius/ say the translator of Athanasius. And beside that the Emperor set one john a Miletian/ either heretic/ or schismatic to be more than quarter master with him: if it be true that he hath so earnestly disputed before/ that an archbishop, and Metrapolitan be all one, Alexandria being the metrapolitan city 
pag. 334.  only/ and the bishop thereof the only metrapolitan: it must needs fall out/ that where this other Archbishop is supposed off the D. to have been/ there could be no archbishop/ and consequently that that is the translator's fault.  
There remaineth only Epiphanius, the first of ancient writers that gave this name place in his writings. I am content therefore let this be the first flight off that name in to the church: which being about the year of our Lord 389. at what time Ephanius flourished/ near upon 400. years: it is apparent that both the Ans. is greatly overshot/ which would make us believe this name to have been from the times of the Apostles: and that I kept myself within my bounds/ in saying the name of Archbishop can not be showed in any allowed writer, by the space off 300 years after Christ. As for that he would prove it to have been in Peter the bishop of Alexandrias time, which was before the Nicene cocell, because Epiph. doth call him Archbishop: it hath been often answered/ that that title was not of the Person/ but of the times wherein Epiphanius written. For when the writers before him/ and those in Peter's time/ speaking of Peter call him bishop always/ 
Euseb. li. 7. ca 32.  and not archbishop/ and not him only/ but Achilles'/ Alexander/ and Athanasius/ which succeeded him: is there any man of so smail judgement/ as not to understand that this alteration of title/ came off the alteration of times? So we see that off all the testimonies the Answ. hath mustered/ there is not one that hath stricken one stroke/ in the quarrel off that antiquity of the name of Archbishop.  
The two next sections/ I leave to the judgement of the reader: saving that besides the vanity of thexcuse of basil's poverty/ joined with untrwth/ considering that Basil had not been so small a while bishop in one place/ and other/ but he might have gotten some wool on his thread bear gown/ if the fleece of his archbishopric had hand it: it shall appear (God willing) that as this poverty accompanied the bishops in perfecution: so the ordinary of all godly bishops of those times/ and long after/ which lived in great peace/ was as far from this lordly estate/ as the honest frugality off divers ministers with us/ is from the riotous port of a bishop. As for my narrow search off a comma, whereof he speaketh his pleasure: he might know that althowge a comma be but a little prick: yet it oft maketh a great matter. The greatness of the metrapolitanship of Basile over Capadocia, was scarce a plough land in comparison of that which you imagine. I for there were at the lest two Metrapolitanships in Capadocia: one in Caesaria/ where Selladius which succeeded Basil was bishop/ an other in Nissa/ where Gregory basil's brother was. Beside 
Soc. lib. 5. cap. 8.  that/ if it were true you say after/ that Pontus pertained unto the Bishop of Constantinople: Capadocia being in it/ Basil was his underling/ and therefore no cause why he should be called so great a metrapolitan, as you pretend. 
Diuis. 28. pag. 342.   
Here destitute of all defence/ he flieth from the cause unto by matters/ partly vain/ and partly false: which I will voided in as few words as I can/ before I come to the point off the cause. Where he saith Simeon th'archbishop was a bout the council off Nice, and therefore no cause to accuse those times, more than the former examples, and for proof allegeth that he was martyred by Sapore: if it 
Niceph 7. lib. 20. cap.  he true that is written/ Sapores beginning his reign about the year of the lord 310. and reigning 70. years/ it might be well for any thing yet alleged/ that he was martyred about the year 380 and if we follow his account/ yet it is answered. Where he saith I declare my unskillfullnes, in saying the bishop of Constantinople 
Diuis. 26. 337.  challenged not the pre-eminence over all: let it be noted that the hunger he hath to reprehend my unskillfullnes/ presseth him so violently/ that feeding one it so greedily/ he hath not so soon swallowed/ as he is compelled to regorge/ and lay them up again. For in the next sentence reprehending me as if I had said/ that the bishop 
Pag. 334  of Constantinople challenged the title off universal patriarch in the council of Chalcedon/ he plainly affirmeth he did not challenge it: yet I say not that he challenged that name/ but only that he might ordain bishops of Asia, etc. Where he would prove my unskilfulness, because Pelagius/ and Gregory Bishops off Rome/ write against the Bishop of Constantinople for that cause: in deed so he may easily find himself talk/ if when I speak of the bishop of Constantinople which was in the time of the Chalcedon Council/ he talk off the Bishop of Connstantinople more than 100 year after. Whether this be either to trifle/ or not to know these things the knowledge whereof he so often challengeth/ let the reader judge. Again he saith/ the name off universal bishop, was offered unto the bishop of Rome in the council of Chalcedon, and notwithstanding saith/ it was first given unto the bishop of Constantinople in the Council of Constantinople, being long after: Which are things unlikely. For he making the Bishop of Rome/ to begin his claim to that title/ so long before: it is not to be thought/ that being then offered him/ he would refuse it. Which if it were true/ the bishop of Constant. could not be the first that had that title given him/ in the Council of Constant. long after.  
But your loads man here as in other places/ hath seduced 
Pigh. 6. l. Hierar. Apolo. 2. part. c. 4. Diuis. 3.  you. For this was taken out of Pighius/ and objected off Harding against the bishop of Salisbury: unto whom alleging for the proof thereof the Epistles of Pope Gregory/ the bishop answereth/ he could not refuse that which was never offered him. And the truth is/ that not only there is no such offer to be found in that Council/ but things plainly repugnant. For it saith expressly/ the bishop of Constantinople shall have equal 
Calced. 16. Actio. Cap. 28.  previledges with Rome. And the same Council giveth the same honour throughout unto the bishop of Constantinople/ which it gave the bishop of Rome: saving that because it was the first seat off the Empire/ it is content that it shall have the first place. The same also may appear by the second provincial Council of Constantinople/ where this is repeated 
3. Cap.  out of the Chalcedon Council. Now seeing this council made the Bishop of Constantinople equal in privileges/ and honour with the Bishop of Rome: it must needs be a mere fable of Pope Gregory/ the Papists/ and our D. that this Council offered unto the Bishop of Constantinople/ the title off universal Bishop. Thus with my unskilfullnes, I am constrained to make up the gap/ the D. layeth open unto the Papists.  
Where he saith Constantinople required nothing, but according to the 6. canon of the Council of Nice: he greatly erreth. For first the privileges of the church of Antioch/ in that council were clean dashed/ and the whole state of the church being divided into the rule off four/ that is the bishop of Rome/ Constantinople/ Alexandria/ and jerusalem: the churches were brought into miserable servitude/ which may appear by the Council of Constantinople: which decreeing this afterward/ autoriseth the canon of that matter/ by the council of Chalcedon. Secondly whereas the 
Concil. Constant 2 cap. 3. 6.  Council of Nice reserved to every province her privileges/ and honour whereof this was part (as appeareth by other decrees) that the bishops of every province should choose their metropolitan: he off Constantinople took a way these privileges/ from the greatest part of the churches throw ought the whole world: considering that he had by this council/ th' appointing of the Metrapolitans of part of Europe/ and of all Asia/ saving a little corner wherein they had pinned up the bishop of jerusalem. Thirdly it is clear/ that not only at the time of the Nicene Council he had no such large dominion: but his jurisdiction long after/ was shut up within the bands of Thracia only/ without having any thing to do either in Pontus/ or Asia: as appeareth clearly both by Socrates/ and by a former council of Constantinople. Thus may the Answ. great skill/ for the show whereof he hath thus ranged from the cause/ easily appear.  
Now let it be considered what is answered unto the argument/ whereby upon the words of the council of Carthage (the bishop of the first seat, should not be called the chief of the priests, or the high priest, or any such thing) I concluded the title of the Archhishop forbidden. He saith that was made against the bishop of Rome, and the meaning off that Council was, that no bishop should be called by the name off universal bishop: which is first directly against that he hath said before/ off the title of the universal bishop/ offered in the Council of Chalcedon unto the bishop of Rome. For if Rome desired not that title/ yea refused it offered: then there was no such cause off the decree off the African councils/ to bridle it in the title off universal bishop. Secondly this exposition bringeth manifest force to the councils words. For if the name of an Archbishop be not sufficiently forbidden/ by these words (Prince of the priests) which in the councils language confounding priest/ and bishop/ is all one with the name off an Archbishop: yet it is forbidden by those words which follow/ no bishop shall be called by any such name. And if that be not sufficient/ 10 stop the way against such trifling cavils as these: yet the words that follow (he shall only be called the bishop of the first seat) are so plain that he must have a very hard forehead/ that will go about to owtface them.  
Moreover Gratian addeth as a part of this canon: but universal bishop, let not the bishop of Rome himself be called. 
distin. 9●.  Whereby is manifest how vain the D. shift is. For unless he had in the former words/ ment all other bishops: there can be no place for these/ no not the bishop of Rome. and unless the council had meant some other thing then universal bishop/ by these words chief priest: there is no place for these/ universal bishop. For if we should follow the D. exposition/ we should make the council speak after this sort: the bishop of Rome shall not be called universal bishop: but universal bishop, not not the bishop of Rome himself shall be called. Which when it is absurd/ we must needee hold that this Council provided/ not only against the ambition of the bishop of Rome/ but off all other: and not against the puff of the name/ of universal bishop only/ but against the smokeie title of Archbishop/ Patriarch/ etc.  
Furthermore/ in another council which confirmeth the canons of this/ it appeareth plainly/ that that canon was made especially for the African churches/ for the provinces of Numidia/ 
4. Council Carthage.  Mauritania/ and Tripoli. For Aurelius/ and Musonius precedents of that Council/ in their Epistle to the Bishop of those provinces/ charge them that they had not kept those canons: and show how some covered themselves by ignorance of them. And not only the council of Carthage/ holden somewhat more than 400. years after christ/ forbiddeth these lofty titles: but the council of Carthage whereat Cyprian was/ within 200. and odd years after christ/ is found off the same judgement with this/ that no bishop should be called bishop of bishops So that to avoid this argument/ the Answ. must be compelled to say/ that the bishop of Rome claimed the title off universal bishop/ within about 200. and 50. years after Christ: which although he dare much/ I think he dare not answer. Again/ he may understand that he hath the bishop for party. For he alleging out of Origine/ that the ministers in the very time of 
Bishop off Sar. 4. Art. Diuis. 33.  persecution whilst he lived/ passed the outrage off worldly Princes: addeth that for that cause/ this canon of the Council of Carthage which I have set down/ was made. giving plainly to understand/ that it was to kill the each of ambition in the whole order of ministery: not as he beareth us in hand/ only in respect off one person. And if there be any credit to be given unto Gregory/ there were nigh 600. years at the least run out/ or ever the bishop there/ made claim unto this title. For he saith/ no bishop of Rome until his time, had taken to himself that 
4. lib. Epist. 32.  title of singularity, or would ever consent to be called by so profane a name, off universal bishop.  
Now let us see his reasons. The first is/ Celestinus bishop of Rome, claimed the hearing of matters in the African churches, as appeareth by the African Council But how doth he not see that the Council of Carthage/ the Canon whereof I alleged/ was before that council? His answer therefore is/ that the Council of Carthage by way off Propheceye/ decreed against the ambition of Celestinus/ not then bishop. And although this be absurd/ yet that which followeth is yet more: that this canon should be to provide against the ambition of the bishop of Constantinople, which challenged the name off universal bishop/ about two hundred years after this canon made. To understand faults so particularly/ and provide remedies so especial against them before they be/ requireth a higher watch tower/ then any council of bishops could ever climb into. And as for the African council/ neither in the words alleged by the D. nor any other of that Council doth it appear/ that the Bishop of Rome claimed the title off universal bishop. But as julius bishop of Rome had done at the Council of Antioch/ he owtreached in claiming the hearing off causes/ which pertained not unto him. In which respect the Council made a special chapter/ that whosoever should appeal beyond the seas/ should not be received into communion of any in Africa. Which chapter is not the 6. but 92. neither is it off titles, and 
Afric. council. ca 92.  names, but of jurisdiction.  
Where he saith/ there were as haughty names in those times, as of Primate, and for proof provoketh unto the greek copy off that Council of Carthage: there is no advantage in the Greek copy/ which only maketh mention off one first amongst the bishops: and he is greatly deceived if he think/ that to be first bishop/ is as much as to be Prince off Bishops. For the Bishop of Rome in respect of the three other Patrigrckes/ was first: yet not their Archbishop/ but only had the first place in their meetings. Especially seeing the Council doth flatly forbidden/ that the first bishop amongst them should be called by that name/ but only bishop of the first seat. For that out of master Fox/ that these name's Archbishop, etc. are not forbidden by this canon: I refer the reader to his own works/ with this remembrance that I have showed in the former book/ how Master Fox counteth these degrees ambitious. As for the name high priest out of Ignatius: if need were it may be showed both by reasons/ and authority/ that he is not off that ancienty the D. supposeth. Beside that he giveth it not to any one especially/ but to all a like.  
Affording you four witnesses, I allowed you one to many/ 
Divis. 29. Pag. 344.  two of them being counterfeit. And if he will have part of those decrees lawful/ and part bastard: he must show that this was off Samasus/ out off some other then off this forger. Whether off these true bishops was first/ maketh nothing to this question: it is certain those you have alleged/ are counterfaictes. But because Jerome which lived in the true Samasus time/ maketh mention off an archdeacon/ let it be granted to the D. which he desireth: doth he think that Damasus mouth was so holy/ that with once naming an Archdeacon/ he could sanctify th'office for ever? yes for he was a virtuous, learned, and godly bishop. But I have showed that amongst men/ the best ground beareth th●sseis. Yea what if the D. praise/ whereof he is so liberal when it serveth his turn/ be to high/ and it be found that he was not so godly as he pretendeth? what if although the tyranny were not so great/ as in his counterfaicre Damasus time/ yet this Damasus of whom he would father tharchdeacon/ spoke in the Dragon's voice: when he shameth not to writ that the bishop of Rome's sentence was above all other/ to be attended 
Soz. li. 6. 23.  for in a Synod? whereby still appeareth how dangerous it is/ to fetch example of government from those times.  
To that I alleged off the names of Acoluthes/ and Subdeacons'/ etc. ancient/ and yet not convenient: he answereth/ peradventure they were profitable. So the profit of tharchdeacon being yet upon the die/ and in dowbt: we must notwithstanding have him thrust upon us. To that off Monks ancienter than thardeacon/ he answereth nothing: but that it followeth not if they were unlawful, that tharchdeacon is so. but it followeth well that if the monk/ with others are antichristian/ notwithstanding their ancienty: that it is an evil proof you use/ that the archdeacon's etc. are not Antichristian/ because they were ancient: wherein stand all your proofs. Whereas he saith/ his purpose was only to show the antiquity of these names, and therefore I do him wrong, which require he should have brought the approbation of these authors touching them: both he hath undertaken to prove/ that these names are not against the word/ and after he concludeth upon these testimonies/ 
pag. 298.  that these names are not only ancient, but allowed off the best, eldest, worthiest writers, and counsels. So appeareth that my accusation is just/ 
Pag. 348.  and that he took upon him to great a burden. As for the ancienty of the name Archdeacon/ it is not showed before almost 400. years after Christ: which times how corrupt they were/ hath in part/ and will after more appear.  
Can there be plainer words to prove that the Archdeacon was no minister/ then those whereby Sozomene putteth difference 
Divis. 30. Pag. 345. Soz. 7. lib. 19 ca  between an Archdeacon/ and an elder/ making them several members? And where he saith/ by that reaso● the Archdeacon should be no deacon, nor the bishop no priest, considering that these are there likewise distinguished: I marvel that he will dally after this sort. For although under the name of Deacon/ and priest/ tharchdeacon/ and bishop be comprehended: Yet who understandeth not/ that as when bishop/ and archbishop are compared together/ one doth not/ nor can not comprehend the other: so deacon/ and Archdeacon/ there expressly compared/ are opposed members/ and can not be comprehended one of another. For Deacons being divided into archdeacon's/ and those called by the comen name of Deacons/ likewise priests into bishops/ and which are commonly called priests (unless we will imagine that Sozome could not tell how to speak) we must needs take them for distinct members. Further if the Archdeacon be comprehended of any the rest of members in this place/ it is under the Deacons: and if he be contained under a priest also/ then both the Deacon which comprehendeth an archdeacon/ must be contained under priest/ and Sozome is yet more ridiculous/ which of one only custom hath made four. Beside that/ Jerome opposing an archdeacon unto an 
Epist. ad Rust. monach.  arch elder/ or in your language archpriest/ saying every church hath her archdeacon, and archpriest: declareth manifestly/ that the archdeacon was no priest. And by Gregory's epistle/ which writing unto the archdeacon of a certain church/ maketh the title unto the Deacon of such a church: appeareth that the Archdeacon 
Epist. 1. lib. 10.  was not a priest/ but a Deacon.  
It is a simple exception against the Council of Urban/ that it is not to be found in the tome of councils, especially when I cite 
Diuis. 31. pag. 346.  it but for a story witness: seeing there are some councils of more weight out of that book/ then some in it. When Sozome tieth the archdeacon to the church of Alexandria/ as well as the Elders/ and Deacons/ unless he will say that the Elders/ and Deacons were not tied unto that church: he must confess that the archdeacon was. Which if it were not clear by Sozome/ is manifest by the words of Jerome/ and Gregory before recited. Where he saith/ we have no archdeacon not tied to one church: seeing he is called the archdeacon of such a shire/ and hath his office not in one/ but a hundred churches: I leave it to the reader's judgement/ with what boldness he determineth to owtface all truth. Likewise I leave to his judgement/ whether Jerome's words (which to declare the 
jerom. ad evag.  manner of the bishop's election/ bringeth for example the choice of the archdeacon by the Deacons) be clear to prove that I have alleged them for: and how frivolous he is in his shifts/ as although it were so strange a thing/ for the soldiers to choose their captain: and how he taketh it for granted/ that it is not material who chose the archdeacon/ which is before confuted: and last of all/ how well he concludeth/ that forasmuch as a bishop is above a Deacon, therefore he is above the whole college of Deacons. Likewise how sound he hath answered unto the 2. next sections: which to avoid the subjection of the archdeacon unto the minister/ is driven to deny that an Archdeacon is a Deacon/ which notwithstanding affirmeth that an Archbishop/ is a bishop: it being also before showed/ that Gregory calleth an archdeacon Deacon/ and being more clearer than the day/ that as the archelder was both an Elder/ and under any bishop: so the Archdeacon was a Deacon/ and of right under any Elder. Considering that Jerome speaketh of that Deacon/ at whose testimony an Elder was made: which one may easily understand/ to have been an archdeacon.  
I leave the things before handled/ off Residence on a certain place for every minister: here is question only/ what likelihood 
Divis 33. pag. 347.  our Deans have with the old. Which because the D. will not perceive/ I must be compelled to show Augustine's woods to him better. First therefore the Deans were monks (for 
jerom. ad Nepot. & ad Rust.  often monks one was Deane) and consequently not ministers: when it is manifest by stories/ that the old monks were not only no ministers of the word/ but not so much as within any order ecclesiastical. Secondly it was a reproach for those monks/ and Deans to be in any city/ or great town: seeing that a city 
jerom ad Rusticum. Sozom 1. lib. 13,  was a prison unto monks/ and agreed unto them as dry land unto fish. Thirdly their profession was to labour/ and to gain their living by hand: neither was it lawful for them otherwise to live/ so that he that did not labour/ was esteemed as a thief: beside that/ their diet was very homely/ and gross. Hitherto I think there is nothing like with our Deans. Now where the Answ saith/ the Deans were set over the other 9 Monks, and so in their rule resemble ours: he forgetteth that their rule was but in provision for meat/ and playing the part off their Cater/ whereof they made account unto the Father. Of whom there was no cause the D. should make mention here: but that he finding no deanly authority in this poor Deane/ would feign make it out in the father: whilst he would make the reader believe/ that the Father/ and Deane/ were all one.  
Where he saith/ these were godly societies which Augustine speaketh off: I will not deny but that Jerome/ and August. with others commend them/ as it is not hard to show that discommend them: 
Theodor. li. 4. ca 11.  but that they were so (what show soever they bore) being instituted besides the warrant off the word/ I utterly deny. Wherein I will refer myself to the treatises off divers learned men/ which have handled that matter: that I be not compelled here to set upon this vermin/ which the Ans. raiseth again from hell/ to help the office of the Dean. it is enough to have showed/ that beside the name/ and institution without warrant of God's word/ they have nothing in comen. As for the unspeakable profit he saith they bring unto the church, it is but his custom with riotous/ and overrunning words/ to supply the beggary of his reasons: and it is confuted in an other place. There remaineth one testimony 
pag. 472.  pertaining to this question of th'archbishop/ taken out of Beza/ whereby the Ans. would prove these names good/ and holy. Whereunto before I answer/ to th'end it may appear that the D. doth but hunt after words/ contrary to men's constant practise/ and manifest writings: I am compelled here to open/ what Bezaes' judgement is off them.  

a upon 13 Act.  First I have showed before/ how he holdeth that the name of dominion, whereof the Archbishop/ and archdeacon be made/ doth not agreed unto the ministery. Secondly/ in 
b upon 1. Philip.  an other place he so far misliketh/ that any should be called archbishop/ that he saith the order which for policy sake was taken in the ancient church, that one only amongst the Elders of every church, should have the name of bishop, or precedent, was the first foundation which the devil laid off tyranny in the church. After it came to metrapolitans, which they call archbishops: which distinction had notwithstanding a glorious pretence, that Synods might be the easilier called, and some order kept in government of things. Then, to four patriarchs: from four to two, from two to one, which is the Pope. In the end for conclusion he addeth: behold what it is to go a nail breadeth, from the word off God. Thirdly/ that the ancient 
Confess. 5 ca art. 29  fathers established amongst the bishops metropolitans/ he confesseth a good intent: but forsomuch as that horrible tyranny which proceeded of them, did ruin the churches, and now hindereth the reformation of them, we will (saith he) content ourselves with the custom, and order off the Apostles, etc.  
But what will the D. say to that he saith/ Archbishop's, 
In his Epist. ep. 1.  and Primates are a shadow, and image of the policy of Rome, which came in by little, and little? that he calleth them petty tyrants in respect off the Pope? that althowgh the names be never so ancient, yet it ought to have been inquired whether it were lawful to bring them into the church: and if it were, yet whether it be expedient now in this regeneration of the gospel, to set up a fresh, or to abolish them? that he saith/ it is an other reason of a Bishop, Pastor, Deacon, Elder, as those which are instituted by the holy ghost? that he is so far from allowing Archbishops/ that our kind of bishops he calleth counterfaict bishops, relics of popery such as will bring in Epicurism? that all which will the churches safe, must take heed of that pestilence? that M. Knox which had put them to flight/ should take heed that he suffered them not to come in again, althowgh it pretend to have great force to keep unity, under which pretence it deceived the ancient Fathers? Thus it appeareth what Bezaes' judgement is/ both of these names/ and offices.  
Now I return to the places alleged off the D. Where he is said to affirm that archbishops, etc. are called in scriptures by one comen name off Pastors, and Bishops: his words can not be referred unto the name/ or office of Archbishop. For considering there is no mention of them in scripture/ the scripture can not call them Pastors/ and Bishops: especially seeing he showeth how they are Pastors/ in respect off administration of the word/ and Sacraments/ not in that they rule over Bishops: in which regard only it is confessed that they were called Archbishops/ etc. Where he affirmeth him to call the names holy: the names which he calleth holy/ are the names of Apostles/ and bishop's/ not of archbishops etc. which may appear by that following (and therefore they glory off the succession of the Apostles, and true Bishops). For seeing they convey themselves unto the succession of the Apostles/ and Bishops under the cloak off names: what names are so fi● to disguise them/ that they might be so taken/ as those? And where he saith/ he reckoneth up archdeacon's, Canons, Seniors, Deans, subdeacons, clerk amongst degrees taken out of the word of God, and from the Primitive church: first he hath not they were taken, but they seem to have taken, etc. Then if the ancient church be taken/ for that almost 400. years after Christ (as it may be/ compared with that 100L. years after Christ): we deny not but these names were in the Primitive church Moreover the Ans. to help the Dean/ hath falsified Beza/ translating for Deacon, Deane: which have no more kindred/ then a mat and a mattock. Last of all/ if he could have brought this testimony out of Beza/ for allowance of names: yet he should have been afraid to have used this advantage/ seeing that place ministereth more weapons to beat/ then to defend him. For there he condemneth flatly/ as a rabble, and filthy assemble of monsters, unheard off in the ancient church, the degrees of suffragans, Officials, Proctors, Vicars, chaplains, etc.: none of which I suppose the D. may well spare/ in upholding that estate which he phansieth so good.  
I appeal not unto the Apostles times only/ but unto the doctrine/ 
Diuis. 36. pag. 349.  and order established: where we are sure there is light without darkness/ truth without danger of errors. And if we leaving th'apostles/ should take a patron of government of men/ which may be deceived: it ought rather to be drawn from the Apostles times/ then from those 500 years after: those being so much purer/ as they were nearer the incomparable brightness of the gospel which shined then/ and further from those misty times of Antichrist/ wherewith after the whole earth was overcast. For if this man of sin being in the egg in thapostles time/ receyned by little and little continual increase/ until he came to his full growght: I see not why there was not as great odds/ between the pureness of the church in th'apostles time/ and that 500 years after/ as between this/ and that 1000 year after the apostles. And if there were no remedy against the corruptions of those purest times/ but in taking heed to the light which the Lord had set up in the doctrine/ and government of th'apostles: how much more for remedy against such palpable darkness/ as covered the face off the earth in our times/ ought we to have resorted unto that perfect/ and unmedled light? not unto them whose both heavens were darker/ and sight dimmer: and which beside greater night within themselves/ by reason off their infirmity/ had less day without by reason of the glowmie times. To that alleged/ and confirmed/ that these dignities of metrapolitans/ archbishop's/ etc. were as the hands that pulled, the feet which brough, the shoulders that lifted up the Pope into his seat, which otherwise he could never have attained unto: the Ans. saith only/ that sects, and heresies gave strength unto Antichrist: which is nothing to purpose/ as although both these could not stand well together.  
Where he saith/ the writers, and councils of 500 years, laboured to keep out Antichrist, and therefore things taken from them, can not justly be suspected: I marvel he understandeth not/ first/ that divers of that ancienty he speaketh off/ and of the chiefest 
a Athana fius quaes. 29. & 30. Ambr. 10 lib. upon Luke. ca 13. jerom upon Daniel 9 11.  of them/ knew not what Antichrist was: but imagined fnodly of him/ as of one singular person/ and that he should start up suddenly/ etc. that Elias should come to destroy him/ that he should be borne of the jews/ that he should reign in jerusalem/ and divers other such fables. Secondly/ that he remembreth not the ignorance of men to be such/ that they often times make him a bridge/ against whom they think to stop the passage. Thirdly/ that being oftentimes overmastred off their affections/ with hindrance of the truth/ they give somewhat to them. Further/ that errors/ and heresies (as he saith) strengthening antichrist: he could forget the manifold errors/ which are to be found in the fathers of the time he prescribeth. last of all/ if he could be ignorant of these things: yet examples of our days might have taught him/ that even now there be which knowing antichrist/ and detesting him/ cease not to maintain things/ whereby that kingdom partly standeth.  
Where he saith/ no man of modesty, and learning, will condemn orders of that time without manifest proof, especially in government: I would gladly know of him why he should add/ especially in government. what reason can he show/ why we should not call their government to as narrow a search/ and as straight a trial/ as their doctrine? When as it can not be but where the Doctrine is attainted/ the infection thereof must needs come unto the discipline: especially when the ministers/ which sit at the sierne of government/ be seized with that evil. And the discipline of the church being the wall/ wherewith the doctrine is kept safe: as in a city the wall is that which feeleth the first assault/ and is battered before the city can lie open to the violence of the artillery: so in the siege off the church by spiritual enemies/ the discipline/ and government is that/ wherinto the first breach is made. So that having good cause to hold for suspect/ whatsoever either in doctrine/ or in government those times left unto us/ not confirmed by substantial proofs out of the word: we have yet better cause to mistrust their government/ as that which having abidden the greatest brunt/ hath more need off reparations. This appeareth in the first Council of Nice/ 
Council Nic. 11. 12 13. can before touched.  where the most of errors decreed upon/ were in the discipline/ and not so much in the doctrine: beside the ungodly custom/ which may appear to have occupied almost all the churches/ touching the forbidding of the second marriage of ministers/ before that council.  
Furthermore/ I would know what charter the Answ. can show/ that the first 500 years (within compass whereof he hath brought his testimonies) be just the time of the primitive church/ neither more nor less. But thus must he do/ that having nothing else/ he might with this glorious title of the primitiven church/ dazzle the eyes off the simple. last of all/ when he saith there was no function brought into the church the first 500 years/ allowed by general council/ or credible writer/ not meet for that time/ and allowable by the word of God: besides the gross demand off that in question: I would know of him wherefore served exorcists/ when the gift off casting forth evil spirits/ was ceased? what he will answer unto 
a Ad Eustochium de custodia virginitatis.  Jerome's monks/ 
b De vita Pauli.  Eremites/ 
c De vita Hilarionis.  Anchoristes? Which were at that time very gross. what to the four patriarchs/ or rather three? Which by the general Council of Chalcedon/ soon after 400. years/ had the government of churches through out all the world. whether he allow of that famous robbery/ whereby the bishop of Rome/ Constantinople/ and Alexandria (for the bishop of jerusalem beside the name/ had scarce aplowgh land in comparison of the rest) parted the state of the whole inheritance of Christ? And if it be true which he 
d pa. 344.  affirmed/ that the Council of Chalcedon offered the name universal bishop/ unto the bishop of Rome: how will he maintain that no general Council within 500 years, allowed any office not agreeable unto the word of God, and meet for those times? Finally/ what will he say to that it was (as julius bishop 
Sozo. li. 3. ca 10.  of Rome saith) decreed by the laws of the church/ and immediately after the Nicene Council/ that the Bishop of Rome must be called to the Synod: and that it was void which was done there/ beside his sentence? Thus you may see/ that your self enemy to Antichrist/ through your inordinate desire of making good that you have once setdowne/ have given him more ground/ then he could ever by strong hand of disputation conquer.  
If there were no other difference between the times of the 
Divis 37. Pag. 349.  apostles/ and those from whence the D. fetcheth his examples/ but this that then there was none so little an error, which was not beaten down as soon as ever it peeped up, no infection 
Euse. lib. 3. ca 32.  being able to lay hold off the chief governors, which in his times had possessed the best of them: that alone is sufficient to show/ that examples may be safely fetched from the apostles times / which can not be without great danger/ drawn from his times. But doth not the D. see how greatly he is abused/ which compareth the heretics of the apostles times/ with the Catholics of his? their utter falling away/ with the corruption of others? Whereas if he would have answered to that I set down: he should have compared Catholic governors/ with Catolike governors. But he to lift up the credit of his times/ and to make them equal/ or rather for the matter of government superior unto the apostles: compareth the rose of his/ with the thorns of the apostles times/ the gold of those/ with the dross off these. And although it be gross answer/ yet as if one should glory in his shame/ in the next sextion he insulteth upon me/ as though he had answered very aptly/ and I had spoken in the air. Whereupon I will leave it to the consideration of the reader/ whether he seeking to advance his testimonies in those words (
b Pa. 348.  hitherto Antichrist had not invaded the church of Rome, and in these/ approved off the best, worthiest, and eldest Counsels, fathers, and writers, and a little after/ 
c pag. 351.  these names were used in the purest times of the church): I have to the purpose showed/ that those times were not pure/ nor virginlyke/ but that the churches were then much departed/ from the singleness wherein the apostles had left them. I leave also to judgement/ whether the answer I make in this behalf/ be other than all those give which have to do with confutation of those popish errors: for the establishment of divers whereof/ the Papists urge the same antiquity/ which the D. now presseth us with.  
Clementes place which he can not find, is (as I said) not far from the beginning of the book. who after he had showed that certain received the doctrine immediately at the Apostles hands/ to note how corruption entered/ interlaceth this proverb in a parenthesis: few children are like their fathers. And if it be grievous 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  for him with reading off two or three leaves/ to seek it: he shall have a shorter way/ for it is repeated of 
d li. 4. c. 11.  Eusebius. As for the next section/ wherein Socrates' testimony is wiped away/ by accusing him of the Novatian heresy: besides a proof of the light esteem off authors which make against him/ he gaineth nothing. For there is nothing said off Socrates/ which is not confirmed otherwise. The bishop of Salisbury allegeth somewhere out of Origen/ off the whole estate of bishops/ which 
Origin. in. Math. Tract. 12.  Socrates said of them of Rome/ and Alexandria: that the bishops even in his time/ and under the clog of persecution/ seemed to pass the rage of worldly Princes. And where he saith Socrates unjustly reproveth the bishop of Rome, etc. how untrue that is may cuidnetly appear/ for as much as the bishop whom Socrates speaketh of was Celestinus: whom the Ans. before saith to have claimed superiority 
pag. 342.  of all churches, and taken upon him as it were the name, off universal bishop. Neither did that proud stateliness of the romish Bishop/ which Socrates speaketh of/ begin in Celestinus which banished the novatians/ but was in his predecessors/ Boniface/ Zosimus/ and Innocentius/ etc. as may appear by divers monuments of that time. And Socrates doth not reprove them for that they were enemies to the Novatian heretics/ but for that they took upon them to exile them which pertained not unto the Bishop/ but unto the magistrate. Also it appeareth that Theodosius the Emperor/ had permitted the novatians to have 
Socr. 5. li. ca 20.  a church there: so that there was double fault in the Bishop/ which in steed that he should have contented himself to preach/ that it was not meet to have such heretics in the church: took upon him to put them out/ both by strong hand/ and contrary to the emperors permission. And if Celestinus were such as the D. hath told us: than it is so far that Socrates speaking of him as I have alleged/ did it of evil will/ that he is rather to be be accused for to soft speech/ in such a heinous fault.  
Where he saith I have falsified Socrates, which for passing beyond the limits of priesthood to an outward dominion, have set down, leaving the sacred function were degenerate to a secular rule, and dominion: I leave it to the judgement of all indifferency/ what cause he hath to make such an alarm/ for so small a matter: when it is plain that how much a minister bestowethe in a vocation which is not his/ so much he leaveth his own: and thereby manifest/ that in altering the words/ I kept the sense. And so it still fallethowte/ that my falsifying which the Answ. pen doth so willingly run upon/ is neither with any advantage to my cause/ nor disadvantage unto his. The two next sections I let pass/ as having no matter off answer. What attendance the prelatship 
Diuis. 42. pag. 352.  of the Garter requireth/ and what absence from a Bishops charge/ being a thing in the knowledge of all/ I leave. whether he hath manifestly perverted the words of the Admonition/ which here he denieth/ the books of both sides are witness. His slanders (first we take a way the prince's authority over ecclesiastical persons, then/ we would give to understand, that he maketh it in her majesties power to minister the word, and Sacraments) still confirm his shameless impudency: of the one there is no syllable that can be pulled that ways. The words of which he would wrest the other/ be/ it is not lawful to take those which god hath appointed to the mynistry, to apply to other uses there mentioned. Which because it falleth into the question of residence/ before handled/ and into that bearing civil office by the Ecclesiastical person/ hereafter (God willing) to be disputed: the resolution is to be taken from those places. Where in the last division he calleth upon my answer, to the titles off lords grace, etc. beside that he hath nothing but bore sayings without shewing forth any matter: he hath answer. Thus after large promises off showing 
In this Tract. upon the place of Math. 20. and after 20. divis. Pag. 448.  the great antiquity of these names/ that they were not only in the Council off Nice, but are manifestly to be found in all stories, and writers before the council off Nice: after high words against those which deny the pretended antiquity: after rifling/ and ruffling up every dark corner where these great/ and glorious names might be hidden: after hell it self hath been moved/ and summoned to witness of this antiquity: it is manifest that these names nor no one of them/ hath hitherto been showed in any one Council/ writer/ or story before the Council of Nice: and then only the name Metropolitan/ which by the Answ. own account/ was about the year 330. it is manifest also that the names Archbishop/ archdeacon/ Primate/ etc. be not showed out of any either Council/ story/ etc. before Epiphanius time/ which was about the year 380. and so manifest/ that these names being not found in most ancient monuments/ could not have their allowance. what approbation they have had sithence they came into the church/ I leave it to be esteemed partly off that which hath been/ and partly off that which shall be (God willing) alleged▪ being bent as well against the office/ as name of archbishop. Which I therefore forbear to set down here/ lest I should be compelled to repeat them again.  

Caput 3, Diuis. 1.  
THat the reader may have clearer light/ to judge of our writings on both sides in the rest off this controversy/ and that we may be better furnished of weapons/ against this great levy off pretended authorities; two questions seem necessary to be decided/ before we come unto them. The one/ whether the word of God hath ordained that in every several congreation there should be a bishop: which the Answ. doth flatly deny/ and 
Pag. 328.  further saith/ it appeareth out off certain ecclesiastical writers, and the exampels off Timothe, and Titus, that the apostles appointed bishops, only in principal towns and cities. The other is/ whether there were allowed in one city/ 2. or more bishops: which likewise he flatly denieth can be showed to have been from Christ●● time, and that the whole practice 
pag. 366. Pag. 444  off the primitive church is against it. If these things be showed to have been ordained off the apostles: it must follow that this institution of God/ banished by Satan/ ought to be called home/ an that all authority of men/ and custom exalted against this/ must yield themselves prisoners. Likewise if these be showed/ the trwthe of exposition of the testimonies of the most ancient writers/ shall better appear: whereby we have shoot the bishoplike authority in the circuit/ and roundel of one church: which the Ans. would have extended unto a realm/ or diocese. And so shall come to pas/ that they which having all their senses possessed of the custom of these later/ and corrupter times/ when they read or hear off a bishop in the scripture/ or in the most ancient writers/ conceive forthwith a bishop of the same mould that ours be/ shall a great deal easilier correct their error. For if a bishop in the apostles time/ and of their institution/ was the bishop off one church only: by all likelihood those times which followed next after them/ kept them nearest unto that image: whereupon will fall out/ that this usurped authority of bishops over their fellow ministers/ did by little and little increase/ according to the measure of time further from that wherein th'apostles lived/ and nearer unto that wherein Antichrist was fully settled. which things although they have light enough in themselves: yet to clear this matter better/ there shall be (God willing) set down certain testimonies of the most ancient times: whereby as by certain traces/ the truth of these things may be easilier found out.  
The first that every particular church should have her bishhop/ is manifest by Paul to Timothe. For seeing the description of 
1. Tim. 3.  a bishop which he giveth/ doth agreed unto the minister of every congregation/ and nothing there required in the one/ which is not in the other: it followeth that the minister off every congregation/ is the bishop thereof. For the description agreeing with every of them: the things described must likewise. Secondly/ unless he do by this description of the bishop/ set forth the nature of every minister of the word in his congregation: in describing the offices of the church/ he hath left out the principalest members/ and was more careful in describing the Deacons ministery/ not occupied in the word/ then the preaching ministries, but that is absurd: it must follow/ that he understood them by the name of bishop. Furthermore S. Paul's bishop was appointed to the same place/ whereunto his Deacons: but his 
d Phili. 1. Act. 6.  Deacons were assigned to a particular congregation/ as appeareth both by the use of the scriptures/ and also by that after this corruption entered/ that every church had not her bishop: yet it had her Deacons/ as is to be 
e Athana. Apol. 2. jerom. cont. Lucifer.  seen by that alleged of the Deacons of the churches of Mariotes. S. Paul also there assigning the charge/ and care of the bishop/ over the church of God/ must either give him charge over the whole body of the catholic church: or over one particular congregation: or of the faithful company of one house. but he extendeth not his charge over all the Catholic church/ for that were to make a Pope/ not a bishop: nor restraineth him to the faithful of one howshoulde/ considering that he opposeth the government of his house/ to the government of the church: it followeth therefore that he appointeth him to one particular church. That by this word church/ must be understanded one of these three significations/ it standeth upon this ground: that in none of S. Paul's other Epistles/ or S. Luke's writings/ that word church is ever used otherwise/ and never signifieth the church either off Province/ or Diocese. For when the Apostles utter the company of believers in such a circuit: they always speak in the plural number/ and call them the churches of such/ and such a place. And if it can be showed that this word is taken in them/ for the faithful in a whole province/ or dioces: I will give over the hold of this argument. If (as I persuade myself) that can not be done: then the church assigned unto S. Paul's bishop/ is a particular congregation.  
Moreover S. Paul writing to Tite/ to appoint Elders through every town/ which were unblamable: addeth because a 
Tite 1  bishop must be unblamable. Whereupon either every town must have a bishop: or his reason is not well knit. For he should both give his rule off one thing/ and his reason off an other: and it should come to pass/ that those churches which have no bishops/ might lawfully have slanderous/ and spotted bishops seeing his only reason why elders of every town ought to be without reproach/ is because a bishop must be so. Again where it is said that Paul/ and Barnabas appointed by voice elders in every 
Act. 14.  church/ either beside the ancients of the church the Bishop was ordained: or else the famous cities of Antioch/ I conium/ and Listra/ in the number of those churches there mentioned/ received no bishop. But the Ans. himself affirmeth/ that the apostles ordained bishops, in the principal cities, and towns: therefore under these words▪ they ordained elders by voice in every church, is understanded that they ordained bishops in every church. For S. Luke using the same words to set for the the ministery of all other churches/ wherewith he setteth forth the ministery of those famous cities/ unless he will deny there were Bishops there: he must off necessity grant/ that the other churches had their bishops aswell as they.  
last of all unless it be the institution of God/ that every particular congregation should have her bishop: in that largies / and bountiful liberality of ecclesiastical ministers/ which S. Paul showeth our Saviour Christ bestowed upon his church 
Ephes. 4. 11.  after he was ascended/ nothing falleth to the lot of the partilar churches. But it is horrible injury unto the liberality off christ/ so to shut his hand which he opened so wide: therefore it must needs be/ that our Saviour Christ gave every church her Bishop as for the apostles/ evangelists/ and prophets/ beside that their ministery was not straightened unto particular churches: they are (as before hath been showed) ceased. There remain therefore of the ministries there reckoned/ the Pastor/ and Doctor: whereof whether the bishop be the same with the Pastor/ as some think/ or whether he contain both Pastor/ and Doctor/ as other some esteem: it is manifest that either every particular church must have a bishop▪ or else none of those ministries there recited. For if it be said that taking a bishop for the same with a Pastor/ the particular congregations having the Doctor/ may have one of them/ unless they have no bishop: it is easy to answer/ that if the Pastor most necessary/ and whom the church can worst spare/ do not belong: the Doctor can less be thowght to appertain to a particular church. And thus far out of the scriptures/ for proof of a bishop in every particular church: it followeth to show the traces of this institution in the primitive church/ which succeeded next unto the apostles.  
The same the D. supposeth the true Ignatius/ writeth thus: Every church should have her altar, and every church her bishop. And jest peradventure the D. should interpret/ every 
Ad Philadelphios'.  church, every dioces/ or province: beside that I have showed that signification of church was unknown unto those times/ the authors meaning is clear to the contrary/ when he saith/ every church should have her communion table, which he calleth 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  unproperly an altar. Unless therefore the D. will say/ that his meaning is there should be but one communion table in a whole dioces/ or province: this hole is stopped up against him. And if (as he would make us believe) this was john th'apostles scholar: then amongst the testimonies of men/ this may worthily bear the bell. If not (as I for my part think): yet the later he is/ the longer is proved this order of having a bishop/ in every particular congregation/ seeing he showeth what the face off the church was/ in those times when he lived. Epiphanius proving a bishop/ and preaching Elder to differ (which cometh after to be 
Epipha. l. 3. Tom. 1. hae. 75.  examined) saith: where (not as the Pope/ and the Answ. in what great city soever) there was found any worthy to be bishop, there a bishop was appointed: yea and where there was not to furnish both bishop, and preaching Elder, there th'apostles made a bishop, and left the Elder. So that by his judgement/ bishop's were in greater number than/ then preaching Elders. That the same was also in Cyprians time/ shall appear (God willing) in the places after to be handled out of him. From his time unto the Council off Nice/ we have the story of Eusebius: wherein as in a glass we may see/ that the church in this point was little altered Considering that he assigneth the bishops charge/ continually (for any thing that either the Ans. showeth/ or I can gather) to one church/ or to the churches in one city only. Which may better appear in that his bishops/ are so often times called the bishop of a parish (as hath been showed) and that he confoundeth a parish with a church/ a pastor with a Bishop (as shall appear): so that unless the Answ. will say/ that there was in those times but one parish/ church/ pastor/ in compass off a province/ or dioces: he must be constrained to confess/ that every particular church for the most part/ had a Bishop.  
And although after time of the Nicene Council/ there is no dowbt but that as the Bishops had more occasions of enlarging their bounds/ through the disordered zeal of the godly emperors/ so they let not slip those occasions: yet if we consider the estate of the church/ what it was about 400. years after christ: we shall find that bishops were not the tenth part so thine sown/ as ours be now. If a bishop ran in to any slander/ and the slander pressing him he could not assemble a great number of bishops: to the end he should not remain in that 
Tom. 1. 2. Carth. ca 10.  slander/ the Council of Carthage was off advise/ that his cause should be heard off twelve bishops/ and his own bishop. And an other/ that if an elder were accused/ he might call 6. bishops from the places hard by/ and likewise a deacon three: which 
Tom. 1. c. 8. 3. Cart.  together with their own bishop should have authority to hear/ and determine the causes in debate. Now if for every accusation of a bishop/ there were assembled 12. bishops at the lest/ and that when the matter required haste: for every accusation of an elder six/ and of a Deacon three/ beside their own bishop: and that those might be taken in places hard by: all men may understand/ that there was more neighbourhood in bishops then is now/ and that it behoved that those bishops dwelt within no great compass/ which might be assembled with such commodity. For if we should imagine the same condition of bishops then/ which is now: how evil advised should the Council have been/ to cause so many bishops to come so far/ with so great charges/ with such long absence from their churches/ with such delay/ and suspense of the purgation of them/ whose speedy dispatch stood so greatly upon the glory of God/ and edification of their churches? Hereof it may easily be seen/ that this blessing and gift of God in having off a bishop/ reigned not only upon great cities/ and great towns: but even over little borowghes/ and villages where there was a sufficient congregation/ able to maintain this ministry of the word.  
And although there be diverse causes/ why the ancient stories do not so often make mention/ of the bishops of uplandish towns/ as that in those times of persecution/ a number of them did scarcely yield one sufficient company/ able to maintain the ministry of the word: and that by all likelihood the country men round about/ made their resort unto the good towns next them/ which had a bishop: and for that the stories for the most part/ keep the memory only of the most famous bishops/ which by godly policy of the church/ were placed in the most peopled towns: yet notwithstanding it is not hard to show divers/ which are expressedly called bishops off small towns/ or villages. As off one 
a Euseb. ● li. 16. cap.  Zor●cus Bishop of the village of Coman: of 
b Theod. 5 li. ca 4.  Mares/ Bishop of a small town/ called Dolicha: of 
c jerom. Tom. 1. catolog. Genadi▪ vir. illus●▪  Asclepius/ Bishop of a small town in Africa; and of others/ which partly I have already showed out of the testimony of Jerome/ and partly shall be showed (God willing) in discourse of Cyprians testimonies. I leave also to speak of 
d Socrat. 4. 26.  Gregory/ bishop of a small city/ called Naz●anzum: of an other which was 
e Quaest. 16.  priest of the Castle Cumane/ that is 
f 80. dist.  Bishop: both which are as well forbidden/ as to have a bishop in a village. I followeth to show upon what causes/ and by what means the church so fruitful in Bishops become afterward so barren. whereof albeit it is most certain/ that the principal cause was the wrath of the lord/ who angry with his church/ sent such a dearth: yet the doings of men which God had disposed of wisely/ for the accomplisment of his counsel touching the man of sin/ were partly unadvised/ partly proceeding off ambition: and that not always after one sort/ but taking increase/ and gathering strength with the time. So that the ambition which at the first was kept in some awe/ and restraincte/ in the end broke out/ and showed it self as it were bore faced.  
In the African Council/ it appeareth that before a certain law made of the Emperor/ wheresoever and in what diocese 
1. Tom. Council 66. ca  soever there was a church off donatists converted unto the Catholic church/ that those proselytes/ and Converts had a Bishop of their own: and the Council there confesseth/ that they deserved so to have. Whereupon it followeth/ that how many churches so ever of the Donatists were converted: so many Bishops at the least/ there might be in one only diocese. And if this were a good law and equal (as the Council confesseth): what cause can be assigned/ why it should be taken away/ as appeareth it was afterward? In the second Council of Carthage it was decreed/ that those dioceses which had no bishops 
1. Tom. Council 5. cap.  should have none: and those which had/ should keep their proper Bishop Notwithstanding if the number off the faithful should increase in that diocese/ that the people desiring a Bishop/ if the bishop of the diocese consented thereunto/ might have another bishop. Now in that the Council ordained that there should be no bishops in that diocese/ where there had been none: it is apparante that their dioceses were not the twentieth part so large as ours. For is there any likelihood/ considering the number of the bishops before proved/ that the Council would decree that there should be no bishop within 30. or 40. miles/ as it is with us? And when it ordaineth that in that diocese where there was a bishop already/ the number of the faithful increasing/ there might be at the instance of the churches/ and consent of the bishop other bishops ordained: it uttereth the cause why diverse parishes round about/ were the diocese of one bishop: namely for that here and there/ in this and that town/ there was scarce gleaned out a sufficient number/ off those which having given their names to the gospel/ were able to make one sufficient congregation to maintain the ministry. And therefore ordained/ that when the harvest of the faithful should be more plentiful in those places: then also counsel might be taken/ off more Bishops.  
Whereupon we may gather/ this to have been a cause of this scarcity/ that it being left always in the discretion of the Bishop/ whether he would have any more Bishops: through Ambition it came to pass/ that the number of Christians increasing/ they would not suffer the people to have more bishops/ but ordaining them Elders/ and Deacons/ together with the name off the Bishop/ retained unto themselves a great part of the authority/ and government to other belonging. And this is 
In his book of the practice off Prelates.  that which that excellent Martyr of God William tindal/ shortly noted: when the multitude of Christians increased, and the church was endowed with great possessions: the bishops made them substitutes, which they called priests, and kept the name of Bishop unto themselves. And how unhappily it was left in the Bishop's choice/ either to suffer another bishop to be instituted or no/ in his diocese: may appear by this shameful ambition/ which even then began to show it self. For so far was it/ that they would depart with any already gotten: that they 
a Africanum Concilium c. 84. 85. 87  assayed to encroach (and sometimes by strong hand) upon the bounds of others: as appeareth by the manifold debates/ which they had one with another/ about their precincts/ testified in the book of councils.  
Another cause off this dearth was/ an order taken amongst 
b Tom. 1. Concil. Milevit ca 24.  them/ that where in Africa there were great swarms of Donatist heretics/ and other strangers from the churches: as every Bishop gained those foreigners unto the church/ so he enjoyed them. Which thing extended not only unto every one's own diocese: but also to other dioceses/ if the other Bishop were somewhat sluggish in that behalf. which what a great profanation it was of the gifts of God/ no man of any judgement in the word of God/ can be ignorant. For seemeth it a meet thing/ that for the blessing of God given unto their preaching/ they should be made rulers of all those peoples which they gained? And what differeth this from simony: but that as one selleth the gifts of the holy ghost for money/ so this made march andrise of them for honour/ and money both? And verily having before a competent stock/ in this point they did not so much get disciples unto Christ/ as to themselves: nor so much enlarge his kingdom/ as their own: not do th'office of pastors/ as of hirelings/ and st●pendarie soldiers bent upon the spoil.  
Another cause off this scarcity was/ that as they provided/ that there should be no bishops where were none before: so they 
African Council. ●●. 66.  decreed/ that in dioceses where there were/ if after the death of the bishop/ the people of that church had rather yield themselves subject unto another bishop/ then choose a new: that it should be lawful for them so to do. And thereupon/ it is very like that divers churches (when good bishops began to be rarer/ then wedges of gold) seeing any one which behaved himself more tolerably: yielded themselves unto him. Not much unlike those times of the lords indignation/ which the Prophet speaketh of/ wherein a number of women laid hold off one man. Beside that it is not unlike/ but the stately pomp of bishops having 
Esay 4. 1.  taken deep root) the people did not unwillingly quite the estate of a bishop: and as off an evil neighbour/ and one which lay to heavy upon them/ were glad to be rid of him. it might be also the people's fault/ which (as our experience teacheth to much) rather than they would beaten the charge of maintaining a sufficient ministry of their own: were content to yield up their privilege off having a bishop/ to receive with abatement of their charges/ a ministry they cared not what.  
last of all/ when Satan had lifted up the son of perdition into his fear/ and had made a full conquest of all sincerity of religion: it was flatly decreed/ that it should not be lawful 
Tom. ●● Epist Zacha. Papad Bonifac. pag 44●.  to ordain any Bishop/ either in villages/ or small city: lest through the multitude/ bishop's should wax vile/ as I have alleged in the former book. Whereupon cometh here to be considered/ what is answered: that I be not compelled there to renew this question again. His answer is/ that I have falstfied the place, that I have not red the Epistle, that if I had, having any modesty I would never have so written To let the rest go/ and withal his unworthy reproach/ so often repeated/ for saying Boniface to Zacharie, in stead of Zachary to Boniface/ seeing the quotation in the margin is right: I say to let these go/ consider wherein I have used falsehood Y● is first assigned/ in that where the words of the Epistle are/ lest the name off a Bishop should wax vile: I said/ lest they should wax vile throwghe the multitude. If I have falsified in adding throwgh the multitude: what truth/ or faith hath the Answerer used/ in adding/ because the contemptiblenes of the place, often times bringeth contempt of the person? This addition of words is greater than mine/ and no more found in the Epistle than mine: whose interpretation is more agreeable unto the mind off the writer/ his that the danger of contempt was conceived by reason off the place, ormine that it was by reason off the multitude: let the reader judge.  
Which that he may he may the easilier do/ let it be considered 
ad evag. 2.  what Jerome writeth/ where speaking off the pride of the Deacons: he assigneth the cause that they were so much set by/ to have been their fewnes/ and the cause why the Elders were so light made of/ because they were more in number. For the abundance of any commodity/ doth so commonly bring down the price of it/ that there is no nation I think where it is not in proverb/ that rare things are greatly esteemed: as contrariwise things off excellent/ and necessary use/ are through their multitude called vile. Which is declared there by example of Poley/ a comen/ and vile herb in those countries: and yet for the rareness more esteemed in India/ then pepper. Of the other side where he saith/ they were not placed in villages▪ or small cities, because the smallness of the place doth make the person often times contemned, in steed that it is meet the bishop should be reverenced: by that reason there should be no minister of the word in those places at all. For it behoveth that the minister also have the reverence of his people/ which becometh the ambassador/ and steward of Christ: and if the bishop look for more/ he pricketh at a further mark/ then ever the word of God set up. But how cometh it to pass/ that the bishop of Canturbery is more esteemed/ then the bishop of London: and he off Winchester/ then he off Norwich/ if the place cause the estimation of the Bishop? When gentlemen/ and noblemen build their houses more commonly in small towns/ and more solitary places: doth the Ans. think that they loose any of their estimation thereby? Also by this reason it ought to be forbidden/ that justices of Peace, and Quorum should devil in country towns/ and commanded to devil only in great towns/ lest they be contemned off the people. But beside that it is contrary to the wisdom of God in the scripture: the Pagans which never saw that light/ could tell that the places do not make men honourable, 
Plutarch. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  but men the places. And Jerome saith/ the bishop of an obscure city, hath as much authority as he off the most famous. If the D. answer/ that it ought to be so/ but it is not/ through the folly off certain: if that were granted/ yet it is unmeet that the ministry should be according to the evil disposition of certain. for then forsomuch as youth is subject to contempt/ it should be unmeet to choose a young man (of what gifts soever) unto the ministery.  
Thother falsehood the Ans. chargeth me with/ is/ for that I gather off this canon, that in times passed there were bishops in several parishes, and small towns, when there was no bishop before off any parish. it seemeth that his understanding can not be so simple/ but that he may perceive if there were no other proof/ that those canon's made so often for the forbidding of ordaining of bishops in villages/ and small cities/ proceeded thereof/ that the churches in villages/ and small cities/ had their bishops as other places had. For to what purpose do they defend it/ but that it was used? And wherefore was that law so often renewed; unless there had been resistance/ and unless the churches refused to subject themselves/ to such a wicked order? if men make not laws but upon erperience of things which they mislike: how much less do they renew them again and again/ but upon gainsaying? And in that Boniface which wrote unto Zachary/ had appointed those three bishops in small parishes/ and towns: all understand that it was no new thing then/ to have bishops in such places. But because he closethe his eyes/ and will not see things set before him: at least let him grope them. The false Damasus/ 
1. Tom. Concil. Epist. 4. Chorepiscopi. Villani Episco.  and very antichrist/ writing of this matter/ inveiethe vehemently against the appointing off Bishops in villages/ which he calleth country bishops. And it appeareth plainly in that Epistle/ that they had the self same authority in all things/ which city Bishops had. There he saith also/ that it was forbidden that there should be any bishop either in small city/ or in village/ or Castle: lest the name and authority of a bishop/ should wax vile. And therefore commandeth/ that those bishops of villages being disgraded off their bishoprics/ should be thrown down to the order of preisthoode. Hear the D. may understand/ that even in the time of antichrist/ this order off every church having her bishop/ was not so abolished/ but that there were remnants of it in divers places/ and some which maintained the liberty wherein God had said them/ against that outrage of Satan: who because he would make off bishops young Princes/ and saw that every parish was not able to maintain that pomp/ went about with robbery of the rest/ to lift up the head off one. Heroff it may be seen what cause the D. hath/ to charge me with the falsifying of the Pope's words/ and how his ability to defend the Pope's decree/ doth not answer his desire.  
As for the reasons I brought to prove/ that the placing off bishops in villages, and small cities, could no more bring them in contempt, than the shining of the son, or falling off the rain in villages as well as in cities, breedeth contempt of those benefits: or the name or authority of father, given to poor men as well as rich, maketh that ordinance of God nothing set by: he answereth not a word. Where I further alleged the foresight/ and wisdom of God/ which should receive a great wound if in instituting for every church a Bishop/ he should not have foreseen this inconvenience/ which the Ans. upon the Pope's authority meinteineth: he asketh when and where? I have (I trust) showed him now both. although he if he had either understood/ or remembered what he wrote before twice/ or thrice/ when with Jerome he propoundeth unto us/ that Bishop/ and elder were all one by God's word: he should not have fallen into this extreme boldness/ of denying every thing which is enemy unto his unadvised assertions. For if it be the institution of God/ that every church should have a teaching elder/ and that elder (according to Jerome's saying allowed of him) were a bishop: it must needs follow/ that to have a bishop in every church/ is the institution of God. And because the D. boweth so easily under the authority of men/ that he esteemeth it the best proof: let him understand that this was the judgement off two of the most famous men/ which our land brought forth these many years. And the same also executed for the testimony of the truth of god: whereof one of them amongst other things/ suffered also for this cause now in hand.  
ᵃ The sixth Article which M. Barnes was condemned for/ is this: I will never believe, nor can never believe, that one 
In M. Fox's book of Barnes, tindal, etc. fol. 216. or there about.  man may by the law of God, be bishop off two or three cities, yea off an whole country: for that it is contrary to the doctrine of S. Paul, which writing unto Titus, commandeth that he should ordain a bishop in every town: proving that by the word elder/ the apostle meaneth a bishop. 
b M. Hooper upon the 8. command. pag. 90.  M. Hooper showing that one man may not have two livings/ addeth: but this is claw me, and I will claw the. If the bishops permitted not their priests to have 2. benefices, it may fortune the priests would likewise say, the bishop should be bishop but of one city. And in deed so it should be: and till magistrates bring them to that point, it shall he as possible to hear a bishop wade godly, and simply thorowgh the scripture in all case of religion, as to drive a camel thorowgh the eye of a needle. A great pity it is to see, how far the office of a bishop is degenerated, from the original in the scripture. It was not so in the beginning when bishops were at the best, as the Epistle to Tite testifieth: that willed him to ordain in every city of Crete a bishop. And in case there were such love in them now, as was then towards the people: they would say themselves, there were more to do for the best of them in one city, than he could do. They know the primitive church had no such bishops. until the time of Silvester the first, etc. of these things partly/ and partly of that which shall be hereafter (God willing) spoken/ I leave it to be esteemed off the indifferent reader/ with how small either knowledge/ or conscience the D. hath affirmed that it can neither be showed by scripture/ nor confirmed by any ecclesiastical writer/ or practise off the primitive church: that either every church should have her bishop/ or that there should be bishops in villages/ and small Cities.  
Tother of the two questions remaineth/ whether it can be showed by scripture/ and by examples of the primative church▪ that there were in one church more bishops than one. which we might in part have been eased off/ if the answ. having fallen out with the truth/ were not likewise fallen out with himself. For he approving off the testimony of Jerome/ which affirmeth elders/ and Bishops all one/ and that the elders of a church chose one amongst them/ which only kept the name of bishop: doth withal necessarily affirm/ that before the time that this ordinance was established/ there were divers bishops in one church. And in saying the word bishop is not commonly used/ but 
Pag. 383.  for him that in degree is above the rest: he at unawares confesseth/ that there were divers bishops in some churches/ unless not commonly. But because he hath a faculty in denying/ and affirming without showing any reason/ and that his word is no bond to tie him with all/ when it maketh against him: some thing also must be spoken/ touching this matter. And seeing I have showed that he is by S. Paul's determination/ a Bishop/ which is apse to teach/ and to exhort/ to convince false doctrine/ and reprove corrupt manners; and that the Ans. can not deny but one such always is not sufficient/ for some churches especially where the commodity of assemblies is so good/ that every day the word off good is to be preached: it can not be denied but that there both may/ and ought to be more bishops in a church (much more in a city) than one.  
And that this was the institution of God/ it appeareth by 
1. Phil. 1.  the practice of the churches in th'apostles times: at Philippos/ where Paul expressly/ saluteth divers bishops: at Ephesus/ from whence 
a A &. 20.  certain bishops sent for/ came to Miletum. Likewise in the church of 
b 1. Thess. 5. 12.  Thessalonica there were divers presidents/ the same (by the 
c Pa. 410.  D. divinity) that Bishop/ or Archbishop. And as it was in those churches: so it is like to have been in other off great resort to hear the word of God/ and ability to entertain a more plentiful ministry. Neither let him (as he is wont) oppose unto the manifest words of the scripture/ Ambrose's exposition upon the place to the Philippians/ nor that which goeth under Jerome's name upon the same. For as for Ambrose/ a child may see how violently he forceth the text: and what inconvenience he runnethe into/ to make it agreed with the custom of his times/ wherein this order was for the most part/ worn out. And as for the other/ he is a counterfaicte/ and so marked not 
Erasmus.  only because he cotrarieth that which Jerome did plainly teach: but also for that the form off writing/ is far off another complexion.  
It can not be denied but that this order of God was stricken at by divers canons of Counsels/ and that as this was the first attempt/ which the devil gave to abridge the number of Bishops in the church: so it was more ancient than that other/ off robbing the villages/ and small Cities of their bishops. Upon what rotten grounds this abuse crept in/ cometh afterward to be considered: here it is to be noted that this corruption was not so general/ but that often times it admitted exception. And notwithstanding both custom/ and Canons in that behalf: good men upon occasion made no conscience/ to ordain two bishops of one city. 
a lib. 6. c. 10.  Euseb. maketh mention of Narcissus/ and Alexander Bishops at ones in one parish. and if it be true which he reporteth/ that the same was by revelation from heaven: it is a good argument/ that this voice was as it were a repeal off that custom/ which had been brought in contrary to the first institution of God. It is written of Augustine/ that he was made 
b Possido nius in the life of Augustine.  bishop of Hippo/ both by the instant request of Valerius/ then another bishop there/ and by the consent off the Metra politane Bishop of Carthage. And albeit in consideration of the canons made to the contrary/ Augustine was loath to take the charge: yet instantly required/ he accepted it. 
c August. in collat. primi diei cum Donat. August. in gestis cum Emerit. Donat.  Augustine himself also was off advise/ that in those places where was a Donatist Bishop/ and a catholic/ if the Donatist returned unto the unity of the church/ then he should be received into the fellowship of the bishop's office with the catholic bishop. Where he putteth only these exceptions/ if the people will suffer it: if becawse it is not accustomed, the people will bear it. Whereby is clear/ that notwithstanding it was forbidden by canons: yet he thowght it not unmeet/ to have two bishops in one church/ if the people would bear it. and if he were of this advise/ notwithstanding the counsels to the contrary: how much more would he have thought it meet if the church had required/ and made suit for it?  
Also it is not to be forgotten/ that although this corruption off giving the name bishop to one in a church/ from the rest to whom it did off right belong/ be ancient: yet godly men misliked it/ and by all likelihood broke it of. Which Jerome's words do apparently import: this custom was in the church 
jerom. ad evagr.  of Alexandria from S. Mark, until Heraclas, and Dionysius. For unless there were some change then: why would he not rather have said/ from S. Mark until his time? considering that all that time/ there was continual succession of church/ and bishops. Therefore belike those godly men/ seeing the mischief like to ensue of that custom/ and understanding that things ought to be called to the apostolic institution: changed that custom. Furthermore it is diligently to be considered/ that this order of having one only in every church to have the name of Bishop/ overspread not the church suddenly/ and at a clap/ but entered by little and little: 
jerom. upon the epist. to Tite.  so that it is like there were divers ages past/ or ever this had a general passage/ thorough all the churches in the world. By all which it may appear/ how the Ans. is abused in saying/ it can not be showed from Christ's time, that ever there were two bishops in one church. These things being thus laid/ let us now come to Cyprians Testimonies.   

Caput 3  
Unto the first division/ I have answered. In the second/ to 
pag. 355.  prove that Cyprian speaketh off an Archbishop/ the D. concludeth thus. it is the principal office of the archbishop, to provide that peace, and unity be kept in the church, etc. but the office of him whom Cyprian describeth, is to keep peace in the church: therefore Cyprian speaketh of an archbishop. This argument is cast in the same mould that those/ which he hath untrwly compared my reason unto before: 
pag. 316.  and it hath almost more faults/ then words. But that the simplest may see his dealing/ it is to be understanded/ that as the pretence of institution of the Archbishop was to keep peace/ and suppress schisms: so the only pretence of translating the name of bishop/ from many in one church unto one only/ was the same: as appeareth by the place of Jerome after 
jerom. ad evagr.  discussed. To let pass therefore that I have proved/ and will after more appear/ that there was then neither Archbishop/ nor Metropolitan/ and for disputation sake to imagine Archbishops then: yet when both the name/ and office Cyprian speaketh of/ agreed unto him which governeth in every church/ or (to speak as the D. speaketh) diocese: and the office only without the name/ agreeth to the Archbishop: it must needs be meeter ●o refer Cypcians words to the Bishop/ then to the Archbishop/ seeing that there be more cords of reasons to pull them that ways/ then the other. At the least it is clear/ that the Argument of the A. is faulty: seeing it was not only the principal office of the Archbishop/ to provide for peace/ etc. but the same also was the principal office of the Bishop/ as that under pretence whereof/ that kind of Bishop was instituted.  
Where he cometh to his old hole/ that although the name be not there, yet the office is: I refer myself unto that written before 
pag. 354.  in that be half. Howbeit here it appeareth how he spoke without book/ saying all writers before the Nicene Council, make mention both of their names, and offices: when as Cyprian one of them/ hath no word of them. Where he saith Cypr. speaketh off Cornelius, who had government of all the province: that is the question/ which because he could not prove/ he taketh granted. Where he addeth Cyprian had the charge, and oversight of all churches in Aphrica, and for proof allegeth the 4. book, 8. Epistle: he is abused/ for Cyprian doth say no such thing. He speaking there off himself/ and of his fellow bishops assembled in Council/ saith in this sort: but because our province is spread forth larger, and hath both Numidia, and Mauritania joining. he saith not my province, but our province: which is manifestly referred unto all the bishops assembled/ as the course off the epistle declareth. Neither doth he there speak off any jurisdiction/ or oversight which he had more than an other Bishop: neither yet off two Mauritanias/ as the D. saith/ but off one only. It appeareth therefore that the water where he drew this/ was trowbled: and from whence soever he have it/ Eusebius is off more credit in that matter. Who speaking of Cyprians large dominion/ shutteth him with in 
Euse. 7. li. ca 3.  the precincts of Carthage: saying/ he was bishop of the parish which was in Carthage. And although it be clear that Cyprian had no such jurisdiction/ yet to th'end this unfaithful dealing may better appear/ let it be considered what was the estate of the church in Africa/ about 150. yares after: when there were metrapolitans which had oversight over Provinces/ and this weed of Ambition had spread it self much further in the church. In the Council of Africa it appeareth/ that Aurelius which long after succeeded Cyprian in the church of Carthage/ had not 
1. Tom. Council.  himself any jurisdiction over either Mauritania/ or Numidia: for that as he was bishop of the first seat off that province wherein Carthage was: so Xantippus was Bishop of the first in Numidia/ and Nicetius of the first in Mauritania. I omit that Mauritania was divided from Carthage by sea: so that (contrary to the D. interpretation) men must have passed the sea for decision of causes. Whereby appeareth what a fable it is/ that Cyprian was Metropolitan of those three provinces/ when every one had a several Metropolitan.  
Where he citeth Gregory Nazianzene, that Cyprian ruled not only the church of Carthage, but Africa, Spain, and almost the whole east parts: it is to be observed/ that where the D. seeketh by sea and land/ in every corner for bishops of the largest spread/ and longest arms: at the last he hath met with one/ which hath more than he would gladly should be known. for otherwise why hath he concealed the rest of Gregory's sentence? Why hath he cut of the feet of it? why hath he pared Nazianzens words? Because I have not the book: I will set it down/ as the bishop of Salisbury 
Def. Apol. part. 2. c. 5. d. 1.  hath done. Cyprian was a bishop, the mightiest and noblest of all bishops. For he had rule not only over the church of Carthage, and Africa, which until this day is famous of him, and by his means: but over all the west, and in a manner over all the East, likewise over both north, and south. Thus appeareth he hath in this place/ left out both sooth and North parts off the world/ and for that the Bishop turneth 
Hesperiam.  west/ he turneth Spain. where if he complain of the bishop's translation (although I dowbt not but the bishop had reason/ seeing Hesperia/ is opposed unto the East): yet if it should note any one several country/ it is like to note Italy. For so Jerome writeth/ that they used in times passed, to call Hesperiam Italy: especially when it is uttered simply/ without adding utter most. 
upon the 5. ca of Isay.  now all may understand that Gregory's meaning was not/ that Cyprian was ruler of all churches in the world/ in that sense the D. meaneth/ and that he had authority of an archbishop over all churches in the world: but that he was famous amongst all/ and sought unto for counsel from all parts. Whereby appeareth/ that the jurisdiction bishops had in times passed/ out off their certain congregations/ was nothing but a reverent estimation/ purchased by opinion of singular learning/ and godliness/ whereby others willingly/ would both ask/ and follow their advise/ in government of their churches.  
And if the D. will have Cyprian archbishop/ and Metropolitan over all these places: let him answer what shall become off his exposition/ whereby he would have every Archbishop in his province/ to have peerless authority/ without controlment of any other Archbishop? what off the Province of Italy, ascribed unto Cornelius? what off that whereby he saith/ none ought to go over sea, for trial of causes? for although we follow his vain of interpretation in all these/ and for a bishop understand an archbishop/ for a church a Province/ for the particular place where the quarrel riseth/ all that circuit which is not parted by sea: yet this one assertion of his/ that Cyprian was Metropolitan of almost all the east, west, north, and Sowthe, overthroweth whatsoever hath been said in any of those points. For the wide throat of Cyprians archbishopric/ hath swallowed up all the rest/ and made them all but suffragans: and by/ this reckoning/ not only men must pass the sea/ but many seas/ to have end off their causes. last of all/ if it be true he beareth us in hand: let him tell us why the Bishop of Rome may not have a soweraintie over all churches/ aswell as he phansieth off the bishop of Carthage? considering they are in the same/ and fellowlike degree. Therefore unless he will overthrow all/ that ever he hath gone about to establish/ in this cause: and unless in travailing with the Archbishop/ he will be delivered off a Pope/ and a Pope of the largest cyse/ and longest last: he must be compelled whether he will or not/ to expound this word governed, by consailed, or excelled, or some other word as kolde/ and as uncomfortable to the office of a Metropolitan/ or archbishop.  
Why Illiricus calleth him metropolitan, I have showed. He saith I forget myself, which call him in one place metropolitan: they are silly contradictions always which he chargeth me with. For he might have remembered that I said/ that this word metropolitan doth signify nothing but bishop of the chief City: in which sense I can easily afford Cyprian to be a Metropolitan/ without any great hindrance of my cause/ or help off his. I pass the next diu. having nothing but importunate/ and shameless begging of things in controversy. As that Cornelius had a province under him, that Cyprian was Metropolitan, that the place off Cyprian is truly expounded off an Archbishop, that I give the Papists advantage, in saying that the place maketh as much for a Pope, as an archbishop, that is to say nothing for either. Unto the next/ I have answered where I laid open the vanity of his answer/ that writers pass by the title of archbishops: saving that it is to be noted/ that where the D. hath before affirmed in plain words/ that the name of Pope was comen to all bishops: here to give some colour 
Divis. 5. Pag. 302.  unto his answer/ he would make us believe that the name of Pope was comen not unto all, but to many bishops, etc. what M. Fox saith in that behalf/ I refer it to the reader. That the name of Pope was comen to all bishops/ beside the testimonies I alleged before/ may be seen in the bishop of 
a In the 4. article 8. divis.  Salisbury/ and M. 
b Confess. ca 7. Artic. 12. Divis 5. pag. 357.  Beza: which both affirm the same.  
As the D. could frame no argument out of Cyprians place/ for the office of th'archbishop/ without begging: so he can not answer the reasons against the Archbishop out of Cyprian/ without the same. For where I showed that the whole people mentioned of Cyprian/ being not the people of a diocese/ or Province/ were notwithstanding those which Cyprians bishops governed/ and therefore that they were not over a diocese/ or Province: he answereth that if I hadred any stories, I might understand, that bishops were chosen only by the citizen's of that place, whereof they were called bishops, and by no other in their Province, or diocese. Which is a gross answer. For although the stories of later times (wherein it is not denied but these offices were) make such mention: yet what is that to our cause? whose controversy is whether it were so in Cyprians times/ as in times that followed. If he can show any ecclesiastical story off like ancienty with Cyprian/ that maketh mention off such election: then he saith somewhat: if he can not/ he doth to much abuse the time/ and the reader. And certainly if Cyprian said had no more/ but the people choose them bishops: yet (without contrary proof) he ought by all reasonable understanding/ be judged to speak off all that people/ over which he had government. but when he addeth all the people, he leaveth no controversy. And in the same place he saith: for the due making 
Epist. li. 4. 1.  of Elections the next bishops of that Province where the place is void, must come unto the people over whom the bishop is set: and the bishop ought to be chosen in the presence of the people. Upon which words it may thus be further reasoned: that people in whose presence the Bishop was chosen/ was that over which the bishop was set: but the bishop was chosen in the presence of the people off one congregation: therefore the people over which the Bishop was set/ was the people off one congregation. The first proposition is manifest by Cyprians words/ (the people over whom the bishop was to be set, ought to be present for election of the bishop). The second is also clear: forsomuch as it could not be with any convenience/ that all the people of a diocese/ or Province/ should meet always for the choosing of their bishop/ especially in time of persecution. And therein I will refer myself to the judgement of the reader/ how absurdly the D. saith afterward: all the people of a province or diocese, might meet then without peril, or inconvenience. And where he saith there were such meetings at Synods in those times: he is abused/ considering that the churches met not/ but their governors: and not all/ but certain out of every quarter/ as he might easily know by the practice off all times. For although it was not denied unto private men to be present at councils: yet it was very rare that they were found there in any number/ unless upon some notable controversy: and that not by appointment or order taken/ as in th election of their bishop/ but only at their pleasure.  
And if yet the D. be off that boldness/ that without any proof out of antiquity/ he will expound this word all, by some, or (as he doth in the next divis.) by many: and whole by part, and that the smallest part: and people by citizens, to the open violence of Cyprians words: yet that all his starting holes may be stopped/ let us further examine the place of Cyprian/ out of which he would confirm the office of the archbishop. Neither have heresies, or schisms risen of other occasion, then of that the priest of God is not obeyed, neither one priest for the time in the church, and one judge for the time in steed of Christ thought upon: to whom if the whole brotherhood would be obedient etc. To shape an archbishop/ or bishop such as is with us/ out of this place/ the D. is compelled to expound this word church, by Diocese, or Province, Which if it be truly down: then these words also (the whole brotherhood) must be expounded of all those which are in the Province/ or diocese. For both the whole brotherhood are those which belong unto that church: and if there should be any more in Cyprians church/ them those contained in these words (the whole brotherhood): it were no remedy against heresies/ and schisms/ to have the whole brotherhood obedient unto the priest. If I can therefore show/ that these words the 
1. li. Epist. 4.  whole brotherhood, signify only one particular assembly: it must follow that neither Cyprians bishop is an Archbishop/ nor the church there specified/ a diocese/ or Province/ but only a particular congregation. In the next sentence therefore/ it is said: in the election of Sabinus, the bishopric was given him, by voice off the whole brotherhood. Now considering that the whole brotherhood did choose Sabinus/ and it is certain that neither the whole Province/ nor dioces chose him: it is manifest that these words whole brotherhood, with Cyprian signify not the people of a diocese/ or Province/ but off one particular church.  
Again in Cyprians words (heresies rise, and schisms begin, of this that the priest of God is not obeyed) is an other argument to prove/ that by priest must needs be understanded/ the minister in every several congregation. For seeing obedience unto this priest/ hindereth the beginning/ and seed off both heresies/ and schisms: and this can not be if obedience be given only to one bishop in adioces/ or archbishop in a Province/ unless also every minister in his particular congregation be obeyed: it must follow/ that the priest Cyprian speaketh of/ is the minister off every particular congregation. For otherwise the remedy against heresies/ and schisms (which his words promise') doth not follow. For it is diligently to be weighed/ that Cyprian saith not/ heresies/ and schisms therefore continued in the church/ or therefore are not taken away/ because the priest is not obeyed: but rise, have their seeds, and first beginning becawse, etc. Whereas if he would have set forth a bishop of a diocese/ or archbishop of a Province: he should have said/ the causes why heresies/ and schisms are continued: and not why they rise. Considering that the virtue of these offices/ is fancied to compose/ and decide schisms/ and heresies: and that unless the people be by them cured off their heresies/ and schisms/ when they are fallen into them: yet they can not by their teachings/ be kept from entrance into them/ being so far off/ and seldom or never hearing their voice.  
Moreover/ as it is said here/ there is one priest in the church: so in an other 
a Cyprian de simp. praelato.  place/ there ought to be but one pastor in one place, and again/ 
b Lively 1. Epist. 3.  every pastor hath a portion of the floock committed unto him, whereof he must give account unto the Lord If therefore he will not suffer this one priest in the church, to be applied to more than the bishop of the diocese/ and the archbishop of the Province: it must follow that in Cyprians time/ there were no pastors off particular churches. For one pastor/ and one priest or Bishop/ being all one in Cyprians language: there can be no more of the one/ then of the other. Last of all/ it may appear by the council of Cathage in Cyprians time/ that there were divers Bishops of villages/ and small towns. For off the number off Bishops there assembled/ the names off their towns whereof they were bishops/ being there set down/ are scarce four/ or five that are to be found (as I think) in any Cosmographer/ which reckoneth up the principal cities/ and towns of Africa: and namely there is express mention off one januarius/ bishop off a village called Caesar's village. Thus I trust it is clear/ that by one church, one priest, neither an archbishop of a Province/ nor bishop of a diocese/ but only a minister/ or bishop of one particular congregation/ is signified. Thaccusations off passing forgery, etc. deserve no answer.  
I have no where reasoned, that one should not be rightly chosen 
Divis. 6. Pag. 358.  bishop, if any be absent that have interest in th'election: my reason is/ that forsomuch as all the people of Cyprians Bishop/ was by the Ecclesiastical discipline appointed to be present at his choice/ and by no good order of discipline the whole dioces/ or Province could be so appointed: therefore the whole people of Cyprians Bishop/ was neither the people of a diocese/ nor Province. And where you have (to show the vanity of my assertion) translated almost half a side: let the reader consider to what purpose. For where he noteth that Cornelius was made bishop, by testimony of his fellow bishop's thorowghowt all the world: I can not tell for what cause he should note it. Unless it be that because the bishop's thorowghowt the world testified their agreement by letters unto his election/ occasioned thereto for that Novatus denied it to be lawful: therefore it is not unlike/ that the people of a whole dioces/ or province were present in proper person/ at the choice of the Bishop/ and archbishop. And if he meant that: he is far short of his reckoning: neither is it made up by his third note/ which I think tendeth to the same end. For where it seemeth that by these words (and good men) he would have it thowght there were other people beside the citizen's of Rome/ at Cornelius' election: the words are/ of ancient priests▪ and good men in the college: referring the word college, to good men/ as well as to priests. So that by good men he either meaneth those ancient priests/ or some other ecclesiastical company: where the Answ. restraining college unto the Priests only/ would have his reader think/ that the people of the Province were gathered thither/ to choose Cornelius' archbishop. But this is a wonderful change/ that he which before esteemed it inconvenient/ that a several congregation should● meet to choose their pastor: is now brought into such straits/ that he seeketh to make the whole dioces/ or Province assemble/ for choice of their pastor. His other note (that Cornelius passed thorough all ecclesiastical offices, etc. unto the bishopric) is idly put. Whether a preacher was the same with a bishop: belongeth to an other question/ and is altogether out of season here. For unless an Elder which ruled only/ were inferior unto a bishop: yet thereby followeth not/ that an Elder which preached/ was so. Where he saith/ I falsify Cyprian, and that it is too great boldness to say, Privatus was condemned by 90. Bishops of one Province: the truth is/ Cyprian saith not they were off one Province. But forsomuch as Privatus was of the same Province with Cyprian/ and controversies rising in every Province/ were for the most part voided by bishops of the same: unless a general Council can be showed/ a Provincial is presumed. beside that/ it is unlike that Cyprian/ to then tent he might draw Privatus into greater hatred/ would have omitted that circumstance of General Council/ if it had been. And where he asketh/ what if there were so many bishops in one Province? whether it he conciuded thereof/ that every several congregation/ had her bishop: I answer that if there were 90. Bishops in one Province of Africa/ and that were observed then/ which either the most comen practise off all times hath taught/ or which was ordained after ward in the councils 
Carthag 5 ca 10. Carth. 6. ca 43.  of Africa/ that the Bishops of every Province being parted into two/ or three companies/ out off every of them certain should be sent in the name off the rest/ whereby a greater number remained at home/ then came to the council: and that be also remembered/ that there were divers places/ where there were Novatian Bishops: and further that the most part of towns/ and cities being heathen/ and Idolatrous had no bishops at all/ as it was in those days: And hereunto that in Stephen Bishop of Rome's time/ which lived in the same time with Cyprian/ there 
Augusti. count. Gaudent.  were innumerable catholic bishops: Lastly in those times of persecutions/ the number of them which professed the Gospel in one town/ being for the most part sofewe/ that four or five of the next towns/ were scarce sufficient to make a competent assembly/ able to maintain the ministry: I say all these things considered/ and bound up together: I think it will appear unto the indifferent reader/ that every congregation where the word of God was preached/ and sacraments administered/ had a several bishop. For if they had been such bishops as ours/ unless the whole world had been Christian: a little Arithmetic would have served/ to count them. Where he saith/ the patriarch off Antioch, had 160. bishoprics underneath him: if all those were in one only Province/ I am glad to hear of it. If by a Province he mean the fourth part of the world/ the patriarch having then gotten under his gripes/ so many metropolitaneships: it was no marvel although the bishops underneath him/ drowned as many bishoprics. Besides that it is ridiculous/ to allege this example which was long after/ against thestate of Cyprians Bishop. Where he saith/ by keeping back the place off Cyprian, I give suspicion of forgery: I know not how I could have given him more particular knowledge of it, then in telling him/ that it was in the same Epistle/ out off which both he alleged his sentence/ and I my answer.  
First I requiring authority to prove/ that by the word 
Diuis. 7. pag. 359.  church is understanded a Province: he answereth all learned writers so expound it. He dealeth but hardly which having all: will not vouchsafe to show one. for as for those which he maketh show of afterward: it shall appear how little they serve his purpose. His next answer is/ that it is no unaccustomed thing to call the church through a province, by name of the metropolitan seat of the province. If this were accoustomed/ and in those times wherein Cornelius/ and Cyprian lived (for otherwise it is nothing): why doth he let his cause fall/ for want of showing it. For where he saith/ he hath showed it before: there is no word founding that ways. And Eusebius saying that he did fulfil the office of a Bishop 
Euse. li. 7. ca 2.  in the city of Rome/ will not suffer the D. to lurk in that corner: unless peradventure he will say/ the church in the city of Rome/ was spread thorough the whole Province. And when Ruffian showeth/ that the Bishop of Rome about a hundred and fifty years after (at what time the Bishops had spread the 
1. lib. ca 6  wings of their dominion) had but the churches in the suburbs/ and round about Rome: is it a like thing/ that Cornelius had rule off all churches of Italy? For unless the custom/ which the Nicene Council speaketh of/ should have been even from Cornelius time: yet it is clear/ that Cornelius had not government of the churches of all Italy/ but only of those in the suburbs of Rome. For answer unto these bore/ and bold sayings▪ I refer myself partly to that before spoken/ that these words must be understanded neither of Province/ nor dioces/ but only of particular assemblies: partly/ to that which followeth.  
After I saying/ that forsomuch as Cornelius, said to have banished one out of his church, could not banish him out of the Province, therefore church and Province be divers: he answereth/ although he could not banish him out of the province, yet he might excommunicate him, from the congregation thorowghowt the Province. wherein beside that he still presupposeth an archbishop/ which is in controversy/ whilst he giveth Cornelius power to excommunicate/ thorough the whole Province: he is also deceived/ that thinketh by these words/ is ment that Cornelius did excommunicate Felinus. For he was excommunicated before/ by the Bishops of Africa: so that Cornelius had not to do/ to excommunicate him. Where for confirmation of his answer/ he asketh/ whether he forcibly shut him out of the local church of Rome: I answer/ that if he had remembered that there were then doorekepers/ to withstand those that cut from the church/ would enter in: he should not have thought it so strange a thing/ that Heretics were shut forth from the local church: especially seeing he seemeth to have allowed doorkeepers/ as officers necessary for those times. And although it were permitted unto heretics by Cornelius/ and his fellows/ to enter into the local church: yet he might have considered/ that when they offered themselves unto the lords table/ Cornelius with his assistance ought to see them removed. Seeing therefore this not suffering of Felicissimus to enter into the church/ is no excommunication/ (as the D. saith) and carrieth necessarily with it/ that which Cornelius could not do/ through the Province/ but only in place where he was present: it must follow/ that by the word church, where this was done/ a particular place must be understanded/ and not as is supposed/ either diocese/ or Province.  
Where I showed/ that forasmuch as by church is ment the place, where the poenitents confessed their faults, that being neither diocese/ nor Province/ but a particular congregation/ the word church also must note a particular congregation: the D. answereth/ that forsomuch as Novatus denied forgiveness unto the fallen, the meaning of Cyprian is nothing else, but that Novatus did not receive them, into the general and catholic church of Christ. Wherein he hath clean overturned the meaning of Cyprian/ which is not to show (as he saith) that Novatus would not suffer those that had fallen/ to be received into the lap of the church (which thing was notoriously known of itself): but to show/ what were the impieties which waited upon that heresy/ amongst which he placeth this/ that thereby public confession of faults/ to be made in every particular congregation (a singular exercise of piety/ and true worship of God) was quite taken away. And wherefore in translating my words to no purpose/ nor to no advantage off his/ hath he passed by so slily those words/ the threshoulde of the church? For if by confession of faults in the church/ Cyprian mean the general/ and catholic church of Christ: I would gladly know of him/ whether the catholic church of Christ have a threshold: and if it have/ where he will assign it.  
last of all/ where as out of these words of Cyprian/ they dare nor approach the threshold of the church, but wander abroad in the Province, I conclude that the word church, can not be taken for the Province/ being opposed unto it: he answereth/ that Cyprian doth oppose there/ the church unto heretics/ and not unto a Province. This is strange/ that by a church/ Cyprian must mean a Province: and by the word Province, he must not mean a Province. and in saying/ they roved about the Province to deceive, and spoil the brethren: it is clear that by Province/ are not understanded the heretics in the Province; for brethren be not heretics. Where he would give to understand/ that the Province (if it be Christened) being the church, can not be opposed unto the church: in deed if by opposed, were meant contrary/ he had said truly. but when by opposed, or set against/ he could not be ignorant but I ment that which was divers: he might have known/ that as a Christian diocese may be opposed unto a Christian Province: so a particular Christian church/ may be opposed unto either of both.  
I would you would omit nothing which might make for your 
Divis. 8. Pag. 361.  purpose: but I would wish that you would not repeat one thing so often. For if they had no good taste at the first: surely by this often seething/ they are altogether unsavoury. Cyprians matter is answered: the division of ecclesiastical functions into three degrees/ bishop/ Elder (as you say priest) and Deacon/ I have 
Divis 3. pag. 320.  showed to make flatly against you. There remaineth here/ that I answer unto Demetrius. which was about the year of the Lord 291. Who if he were bishop off so many churches/ as is supposed: there is the greater likelihood/ that in Cyprians time there might be bishops of the same breed. First if I grant that he had such a superintendence/ over all the parishes of Alexandria and Egypt/ as Cyprian is said of Gregory Nazienzen/ almost over all the world: that is/ that for his learning and godliness/ he was sought to of all the bishops of those parts: the Answ. seeth he can gain nothing thereby/ to settle either his bishop/ archbishop/ or Metropoliran. But I answer/ that he hath unfaithfully reported Eusebius/ yea and that also pretending to set down the authors words: as appeareth/ for that he hath set them in latin. 
Euse. 6. li. ca 1.  Eusebius very words are these. Laetus was then governor of Alexandria, and the rest of Egypt: and Demetrius then, newly after Julian, received upon him the Bishop's office of the parishes there. Here it appeareth that Eusebius saith/ that Laetus the magistrate/ governed both Alexandria, and Agypt: but speaking of the Bishopric of Demetrius/ only saith/ he was Bishop of the paris hes there. which when by common construction/ it may be aswell referred unto Alexandria only/ or unto the rest of Egypte only/ or to both together: it was to great boldness/ not only to gather this sense of Eusebius/ but also to bring him in so speaking. But that the word there, can not be referred unto the rest of Egypt/ but only hath relation unto the parishes of Alexandria/ and that as there are no such words as you ascribe unto Eusebius/ so there can be no such sense as you Imagine: it may easily and clearly be understanded off that before/ and after. For if neither the bishops of Alexandria before Demetrius/ nor those after him unto the times wherein Cyprian/ and Cornelius lived/ had that jurisdiction over Egypt which you Imagine: then by all reasonable understanding/ it must be esteemed that this word (there) ought to be restrained unto Alexandria.  
Abilius/ the third Bishop of Alexandria after Mark had been in that church/ about the year of our Lord a 100 Eusebius 
Euseb. 3. li. 21. ca Euseb. 4. li. ca 1. lib. 21. ca  affirmeth to have been bishop of the parish of Alexandria, but of the other parts of Egypt maketh no mention. He saith the same of Primus/ succeeding him in that bishopric of Alexandria: the same of 
a li. 4. c 4.  justus/ which succeeded Primus: the same of 
b 4. li. c. 5.  Eumenes which succeeded him: the same off an other 
c 4. li. c. 11  Mark which succeeded him: the same of 
d 4 li c. 19  Celadion which succeeded him: the same off Agrippa/ whom also he calleth 
e 5. li. 9 c.  Agripinus which succeeded him. And where speaking off all the former he said/ they were bishops of the Parish of Alexandria: off 
f 5. li. c. 9  Julian which succeeded Agripinus he saith/ he governed the churches in, or at Alexandria uttering the same thing by divers words. Unto this Julian succeeded Demetrius/ off whom is said as before hath been showed, yea off those which succeeded Demetrius/ as famous/ and as renowned as he: there is no such thing. For off 
g 6. li. c. 29  received the ministery which was at Alexandria: likewise of 
h 6. li. c. 35  Dionysius which succeeded Heracles/ that he received the government of the churches which were at Alexandria which Dionysius lived about the times of our Cyprian/ and Cornelius/ which we have presently in hand.  
When therefore the Bishops of Alexandria so famous/ are not read to have had bishoply authority of any Province/ but are contained within the circuit off one city/ until the time of Cyprian/ and Cornelius: it appeareth not only that the D. hath been abused in these words of Eusebius: but that this ought to be an other mark to know/ that neither Cyprian/ nor Cornelius had any Bishoplicke authority at all/ further than the cities wherein their churches were. And withal appeareth the cause/ why Euseb. did no more particularly/ restrain the bishopric of Demetrius unto Alexandria: namely for that he had so often spoken before of the precincts of that bishopric. The next diu. hath nothing worth answer: being only that which I in few words subscribed unto. Saving this/ that Cyprian was Pupianus bishop: which maketh neither hot/ nor kolde unto this question: seeing that Pupianus was no bishop/ but one that sometime had been of Cyprians church. But of answer to my argument (that forasmuch as Cyprian condemneth the pride of Pupian, for that his deed was like, as if one should be appointed bishop of a bishop, or judge of judge: there is no news. whereas if it were not a proud thing/ to be bishop of a bishop/ etc. Cypr. did with no good advise/ set out the fault of Pupian by those words. And that Cyprian complaineth not of any wrong done to him as archbishop (which the Ans. afraid to affirm/ would have his reader think.) but only as he was Bishop it appeareth manifestly by divers places/ in that he denieth that he pressed him with further authority, then that which all bishops had by succession unto the apostles. That Cyprian did not object this, to appoint himself bishop of a bishop, as a proud name, but as a proud deed: is a poor exception. for if it were a proud deed/ to exercise the office of bishop over a bishop: it must be also a proud name/ to be called the bishop: off a bishop.  
The Answ. words carry no meaning with them/ to conclude that which this cause requireth. For what meaneth this/ one bishop 
Diuis. 10. etc. pag. 362. etc.  of a Province, had no authority over another, but were equal? what is this to my reason? which is, that forsomuch as the godly writers prove the equality of the bishop of Rome with other bishops, for that they called one another fellows, and brethren: the bishops of dioceses, and metropolitans calling one an other fellow bishop, fellow in office, brother, etc., do thereby declare that there was none which ruled over an other. For unless the reason be firm in the one: it is not good in the other. But he answereth further/ Cyprian in calling the bishops of his Province fellow bishops, and brethren, declared thereby the function to be all one. So may the Papists answer/ that the Bishop of Rome called the Bishops his fellows/ and brethren/ because they had the same function/ and not in that for policy sake they were not subject unto him. But as that/ so this is an absurd answer. The Godly writers use not this reason/ to prove that other bishops exercised the same ministery of the word and Sacraments/ with the bishop of Rome (which the Pope himself confesseth): but to prove that they were not under/ but off the same authority with him/ which he denieth. The next answer (Cyprian in calling them fellow bishops declareth his humble spirit) is I doubt not/ unless I can not presently note the place/ another buckler of the Papists against this reason. As if true humility did hinder any/ to take that honour which his lawful office either in church/ or comen wealth doth put upon him.  
He further answereth/ that S. Peter calling the Bishops, and Pastors to whom he wrote fellow Elders, was notwithstanding higher in degree than they. I grant: but I deny that therefore S. Peter could exercise dominion over them. When it is said that fellow bishop importeth equality: it is not meant so much for honour/ as for equality in authority that one hath over an other. For in honour the bishop of Rome had some pre-eminence over the Alexandrine/ etc. it being granted him to have the first seat in meetings/ which notwithstanding had no dominion. Therefore this maketh directly against the dominion of Archbishops. For if Peter in degree of ministry above the pastors/ in calling them fellow elders renounced dominion over them: how much more ought they forbear to use dominion over those/ with whom they carry the same yoke/ and degree of ministry? To that out of Cyprian (none of them took himself bishop off bishops) he answereth/ he meaneth the title off universal bishop: which how absurdly it is spoken/ 
in diu 28. Pag. 342.  may appear by that ᵃ before spoken off the African Council. His second answer is a pinch at Cyprians authority/ for that these words were uttered of him in that Council, where an error was decreed, whereof he was chief author. Where he might with as good right/ reject all that ever Cyprian wrote. For albeit this were spoken in that Council: yet it no more pertaineth/ nor hath no more acquaintance with that error/ then this that we are justified by faith alone. If he would conclude that Cyprians authority is no sufficient proof/ considering that being a man he might err in this point/ as he did in another: it is that we willingly grant/ and therefore call/ and cry upon the D. as loud as we can/ that the whole cause may be tried by the scripture: from which he flieth/ as darkness before the face off the light.  
His third is: by these words none taketh on him to be the bishop of bishops, he ment that one bishop should not tyrannically rule over another. which is untrue: for Cypr. addeth that/ as an either thing likewise forbidden. So that where he saith/ none doth either make himself bishop off bishops, or bind his fellows by tyrannical fear: the D. off two sentences maketh one/ and Cyprians or, he expoundethe that is to say. But doth he not see/ how still he ministereth weapons unto the Papists/ by this frivolous answer? for unto the godly learned writers/ alleging this place to prove that the bishops of Rome have no authority over other bishops/ the Papists may answer with the D. that all that is ment of tyrannical authority. Fouthly he saith/ these words Every bishop hath ftee liberty, and free judgement of his own power, are not ment of jurisdiction, but of judgement, and opinion. As if there were les danger/ in letting a bishop hold what opinion he thinketh good/ without controlment of an other bishop: then in letting him govern his church as him seemeth best/ without the same controlment. So that herein the D. flying from the smoke/ falleth into the fire. The vanity of which answer appeareth also/ by that in 
a Cypr. do simp. praelat.  an other place where he saith: there is but one bishopric whereof every bishop holdeth one part, 
b in solidum.  wholly, fully, in all respects. Likewise in an 
c In the same Treatise.  other place he saith/ he holdeth his bishopric of Christ, who is the chief bishop. And most plainly it is confuted by that I have alleged out of 
d lib. 2. Epist. 1.  Cyprian: Where in express words/ he referreth this freedom of power which every Bishop hath/ not (as the D.) to the bishop's opinion, but unto the government of his church.  
Where for confirmation of these answers he saith/ otherwise a bishop should be exempted from all controlment of Synods, and other, as well as of archbishops: the answer is easy. For unless Cyprian say no one Bishop can be judged off an other bishop: yet he denieth not but he may be judged off the church. And although no one bishop have authority over him: yet a Council of bishops may correct him. And that this is one of those judgements of Christ Cyprian meant off/ and that in those words he doth not reserve the judgement of the bishop offending/ unto the day of the general judgement: may be showed by that he saith/ Christ set them bishops in their charges. As therefore Cyprian calleth the placing off a bishop in his charge by the church/ by the elders thereof/ and the next bishops/ the placing of Christ: so he meaneth that judgement given against a bishop offending/ by the church/ and Synods/ is the judgement of Christ. That out of Cyprian/ wherein the weight of the argument lieth (every Bishop must rule his own flock himself, as he that shall make account off his deed unto the Lord) he passeth by. After to the words of Cyprian (that neither he, nor his fellows used compulsion towards any, appointed any la to any: seeing that every one set over the church, hath in government thereof free disposition 
2. l. Epist. 1.  of his own will/ werof he shall give account unto the lord: (he saith/ I left out that which giveth the solution/ and thereupon according to his custom/ picketh a quarrel to translate the whole sentence: Yet neither showeth one word/ nor can show left out/ to make for him/ against me. Only he saith undoubtedly Cyprian in saying he would not deal with other bishops, etc. meaneth those churches and bishops which he had nothing to do with: which is very strange/ seeing he hath before made him archbishop/ almost overall the world.  
After he saith/ he would not have suffered them if they had been off his own charge: which is a gross begging off that in question. for it is debated whether he had any bishops under his charge. And what manner of interpretation is this/ we do violence to none, nor appoint laws to none, that is to none in other Provinces? and every bishop hath power of the government of of his own church, that is every bishop out of Cyprians province? what a kold saying should this be/ that neither he/ nor any of his fellows/ used violence towards bishops of other Provinces? With whom they having so small intercommuning/ could scarce use violence if they would. Or to say they appointed no laws/ to whom they had no colour to give any? And as this interprepretation having lain in the Ans. rack/ is pulled out of all the joints; so that it is utterly false/ may appear by that before alleged / out off the Council of Carthage: Where words of like effect are uttered by Cyprian/ unto the bishops of the same Province he was of. Last of all/ because I may not have that credit which the Ans. to understand this place of Cyprian: yet I trust 
In loc. commu. c. de potest. minist.  he will believe Musculus. Who of this place/ and others concludeth/ that when Cyprian written, he did never so much as think off the power of patriarchs, of metropolitans, of the bishop of Rome: but esteemed that all bishops ought to have like care, and power, every one in his own church. So beside this testimony/ that Cyprians priest was neither Patriarch/ nor Metropolitan: he hath also that he was bishop of one church/ which is that I have affirmed. For the authority which the archbishops/ and bishops have▪ there is an other place: it is sufficient here to show/ that they had no jurisdiction one over an other in Cyprians times. That out of Cyprian/ touching ministers sacrificing: is before answered.  
To Cyprian saying/ the unity of the church is entertained 
Divis. 12. Pag. 364.  by consent off bishops one with an other: the D. answereth/ they agreed never the worse by having a superior above them Albeit they agreed never the worse/ yet if they agreed never the better: he ought as an unprofitable tree/ which occupieth place in the lords orchard/ be rooted out. unless it shall (God willing) appear/ that the Archbishop's office is the knife which cut the cords of unity: which both was/ and otherwise might have been maintained/ amongst the bishops. The first reason why th'archbishop is necessary/ is: because there may be one to assemble them together. As 
pag. 392.  though that was not done before that office was heard off: or it could not be done conveniently without an archbishop/ by appointing one amongst them at every of their Synods/ who should have authority to call the Synod following. Which is likewise answer to his next reason/ of putting them in mind off their duties. All this may be seen/ not only by practice of reformed churches in divers places/ France especially (where Synods are assembled from all parts of the realm twice a year/ notwithstanding all that dominion of one minister over an other/ pulled up by the roots): but also in the primitive church/ by that recited of one Malchion. 
Euse. li. 7 ca 3.  Who being a simple Elder (so far from the estate of a●● Archbishop/ that he was not Bishop) was precedent in the Council of Antioch/ assembled against Samosatenus heresy. If a simple Elder might govern the Bishops: it shall be to great shame for them/ not to suffer themselves to be governed for the time by one of their own order/ without making an archbishop. Whereby appeareth how untolerable the D. is: which condemneth this order as inconvenient/ confused/ disordered.  
Where he saith/ it can not be but a great help, that one have chief care of prescruation of unity: the office of an archbishop can put no further care for the church upon any/ then the Lord putteth on him by virtue of the office of bishop. For if the government of his own church/ take not up all his thowghtes/ and cares: whatsoever is left/ is due unto other churches by ordinance of the lord. forsomuch therefore as every bishop in the Province by calling off God/ careth to the uttermost of his power/ for the churches whereunto he is associated/ and th'archbishop can do no more than what lieth in his power: it followeth that there can be no calling off men/ which can add unto his care for this unity. If he say that this institution of men/ causeth the care commanded off god/ the rather performed: first it is untrue. for although the ordinances of men/ may give a prick to the doing off things outward: yet they are not able to move the conscience/ and inward affections/ whereof the care he speaketh off/ is a fruit. Then if it had such force/ as to awake his care: yet that should be with no advantage unto the churches of the Prounce/ forsomuch as that would give occasion unto other bishops/ off diminishing theirs: whilst they fancy with themselves a straighter bond/ to provide for the unity of the church in the archbishop/ then in themselves. And so the care by this means revived in one/ should die in a great number. where he addeth/ as it is in other societies: it hath been showed that our Saviour Christ/ forbade that rule off one minister over an other in the church/ which may be used in the common wealth. although I have answered further unto this point/ where those societies are particularly specified.  
Where he asketh/ what if the bishops were divided amongst them sell themselves? who should compound their controversies? He hath his answer/ that he may call them together/ in whose hand the last Synod left that authority? And what if the archbishop himself draw out of his trace/ and be either divided from all the bishops/ or from the better/ and sounder part/ standing this goodly order, who shall range him? And when the D. saith that th'archbishop can not deal for appeasing off controversies/ but by persuasion: and that composition which is made by entreaty of parties/ may be made conveniently by equals/ what needethe there any superior archbishop? How untruly the Ans. writeth/ off the archbishops and bishop's authority in our church/ to hide the horns of their immoderate power/ both in this divis. and that before: the eyes/ and ears of all men are witness. But as he serveth tharchbishops'archbishop's/ and bishops in this defence: so for recompense off his pains/ he maketh them wait upon him: and having now set them on horseback by and by for shifted of answer/ he maketh them light/ and go a foot with their fellows.  
Cyprian saith the cause must be heard, where the fault 
Diuis. 13. pag. 363.  was committed. the D. that is to be understanded of the Province, or diocese. as if it were not heard within the province/ and diocese: when it is heard within that particular church/ where the controversy groweth. Therefore to make good his answer/ thus he must interpret these words (there where the fault was committed it shall be heard): wheresoever in the Province/ or diocese the fault is committed/ it must be heard at the archbishops or bishop's palace. The first interpretation is contrary to the propriety of speech. For seeing matter rising in a particular church/ is said properly to rise there where it was done/ and can not but improperly/ and by figure be said to rise in the Province/ or 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  diocese: it is manifest that Cyprian is made without any necessity/ to sprake improperly. As for the next interpretation/ it is clean contrary to Cyprians meaning. For when he will have the matter there handled/ where they may have both accusers, and witness. that can be by no means understood off the Archbishops/ or bishop's consistory. For the parties have not their witnesses/ and accusers there/ whether they are constrained with greaate charges/ and long journeys to transport them. Where he saith Cyprian speaketh against those which went from Africa into Italy: I prevented that/ showing the reason is general/ and serving aswell against those/ which will pull their causes unto their hearing which devil a 100 or 200. miles of them/ as against those which carry them from one country to an other: whereunto he answereth nothing. For if there should be a bore opposition/ between Afrique/ and Rome/ and not rather between the place where the controversy riseth/ and that far of: as lawful as it is for him to say/ Cyprian meaneth not a particular church where the cause riseth, but the diocese, or Province: so lawful is it for me to say/ that he meaneth neither diocese/ nor province but only that quarter which maketh the fourth part of the world. So that by this means/ the cause rising in Mauritania/ may be judged in Aethiopia: which is more than 10. times farther ha' sunder than Room from Carthage. And consequently it should follow/ that any controversy rising in the church of England/ may be determined at Rome being a part of Europe/ as at the place (by his answer) where the cause rose.  
Where he saith/ there is no Province with us where both the accusers, and witnesses may not be brought: I grant/ if they come and leave their business at home: if they die not by the way: if the parties be able to bear their charges. And with these conditions they may be brought further. And by this exposition of the Ans. the trial made in passing the seas/ which the council of Africa after forbade/ may be a great deal more commodious/ then the archbishops. For they which devil by the seaside/ may both with more ease/ and less charges have end of their matters in Calais/ Deep/ Ireland/ and Flaunders/ then at Canterbury. Yea the trial from Carthage unto Rome/ is much easier: seeing there was but three days journey between Rome/ and Carthage. As appeareth by that Cato/ to induce the Senate of Rome to desiroy Carthage: held out a fig saying, that was but the third day, sithence that fig grew in Carthage. Therefore Cyprians argument (by his interpretation) 
Plin. Nat. hist. li. 15. cap. 18.  is not worth a shoe buckle/ to prove that they ought not to fly from Carthage to Rome the passage being easter/ then from one end of a Province to an other. Especially making such large Provinces as he doth: that is/ one to contain 160. bishoprics, 
pag. 359.  belike such as ours. Where he saith/ this reason may serve as well against Westminster hall: leaving that as impertinent unto this question/ it shall be sufficient to answer/ that besides that there be many causes ended in lower courts/ holden almost in every village: he ought to understand/ that ecclesiastical causes are to be handled with greater speed then civil: matters of conscience/ more then of the purse: the title of heavenvly inheritance/ more than the earthly: of the life to come/ then of this. So that although the trial of civil causes for the whole realm/ were (as he saith) necessary a● Westminster: yet the same reason will not stand in ecclesiastical.  
In all these places which the Ans. hath brought out of 
Diuis. 13. pag. 365.  Cyprian/ Eusebius/ Socrates/ it is manifest that one bishop, is opposed unto heretic bishops. Whereby may appear how like it is which I have alleged/ that by one bishop/ is understanded not the unity of number/ but off truth in religion. And that there be no doubt hereof/ let Cyprians words be considered. That 
Cypri. Epist. 8. li. 1.  there should be an other altar appointed, and a new priesthood besides one altar, and one priesthood, it can not be. Whatsoever he be which gathereth in an other place, scattereth: it is adulterous, it is wicked, it is sacrilege, whatsoever the rage off men doth institute, whereby the ordinance of God is broken. Now except the Ans. will say it is wicked/ against the word of God/ adulterous/ to have two bishops in one city: it must follow that Cyprians words do not bar many bishops to be in one city. And what if it be showed/ that not only in Cyprians time/ but in Cyprians church there were divers bishops? Augustine speaking of the Donatists/ which separated themselves from the church/ for that they saw certain faults unpunished therein/ saith: How did then Cyprian, and other the lords corn in that church (meaning Carthage) of unity eat the lords bread, 
August. 3. li ad Parm. 2. ca  and drink his cup, not with the people only, or comen sort off the Clergy: but with the bishops themselves, which were covetous ketchers, and which shall not possess the kingdom of heaven? I would gladly understand what Bishops they were like to be/ with whom Cyprian did celebrated the supper of the Lord. were they not Bishops of the church of Carthage? If they were: it appeareth I have not so vainly expounded Cyprian/ as the Ans. would bear his reader in hand. And although the D. be not able to prove/ that there was but one only bishop in a city in Chysostomes' time: yet I grant that was observed in the most places.  
Whether I am able to show that from Christ's time there were two Bishops in one city, before appeared: now appeareth what a vain crack it was/ that all the godliest, and best learned expound Cyprians words off an Archbishop, when not one can be found to testify it. Yet to th'end he may have some thing to maintain this brag/ he goeth about to make the writers differ from themselves. For if this place be off the authority that every bishop hath in his diocese (as writers do flatly affirm/ in so much that the 
a Artic. 4. diuis. 5.  bishop of Salisbury bringeth in Cyprian speaking after this sort: For every bishop (saith Cyprian) within his own diocese, is the priest of God, etc.): than it cannot be understanded of an Archbishop. For the authority Cyprian speaketh off/ being the highest/ and such as could not be controlled of any other bishop: it must necessarily seclude tharch bishop's authority/ which is above a bishop. And as the Answ. to make Cyprians place serve his turn/ was compelled to expound Priest archbishop, church Province: so to make the bishop and M. Fox help to bear out his follies/ he must expound dioces Province/ and Bishop archbishop. And what manner of proof is this/ to conclude the greater by the less? if of an archbishop's authority he had concluded a bishops/ it had been more probable: but of a bishops to conclude an archbishops/ and of dominion over a diocese (as he pretendeth) to conclude dominion over one Province/ is far out off square. The next is answered in the beginning.  
The first place is/ that the bishop upon that of Cyprian, saith: confusion, and sects rise in a Province, or diocese, where the Bishop's 
Diuis. 15. pag. 367.  authority, etc. Here because the bishop maketh mention off Province: he concludeth that he speaketh off an archbishop. As if his words may not well be taken/ that the confusion of secres ensueth in a whole Province thorowghowt/ because the bishop's authority which be therein/ is despised. For beside that I have showed that the bishop can not (saving his former sentence which he soft repeateth) expound Cyprians place off an archbishop: if he had in this place meant an archbishop/ it had been easy to have coupled him with his Province/ as he doth the bishop with his diocese. He asketh me what I call him, that hath government of a Province? I ask him where the bishop off Sal. saith/ Cyprians place is to be understood of that bishop/ which hath government of a Province? doth the only mention of the word Province▪ infer an Archbishop? If he prove an Archbishop/ and Province relatives/ so that a man can not name the one/ but he must understand the other: he saith some thing. Ad also that the Ans. dealeth unfaithfully in this place. For the bishop making his conclusion both of Cyprian/ and of a place of Honorius/ Emperor: he propoundeth it as the conclusion of Cyprians place only. Whereas if he could conclude off these words (within a province) an archbishop: yet it were easy to answer/ that the bishop put in those words/ in respect of the place cited out of the Emperor/ and not in respect of Cyprians. Considering that within a dozen lines after/ he affirmeth/ that Cyprians place is understanded off th'authority of a Bishop within his several dices: and by whole Brotherhood, a company within a several dioces.  
For that off M. Nowell pag. 33. beside that whatsoever he speaketh there/ is not upon this place of Cyprian/ but of an other: I have showed in the former book/ that chief Prelate is not always used for a bishop. And that it is not altogether unlike but M. Nowell might mean so/ appeareth by that the D. citeth out of the 62. and 63. pag. wherehe taketh chief priest and bishop, for the same. Howbeit because the author himself is alive/ and knoweth best what he meaneth: I am well content the meaning off his words be such/ as himself shall best like off. Out of M, Fox he can not find so much as a fig leaf/ and therefore telleth us how he saith, Rome was a patriarchal church, and therfofore not unlike but Carthage was also: how by a diocese is meant a Province, and forsomuch as he allowed an archbishop, it is like he expounded Cyprians place of an archbishop. The only rehearsal is too long a confutation. In the end are recited at large the words of M. Philpot. which attributing unto Cyprian a diocese/ declareth that he esteemed him a bishop/ not an archbishop. For that he calleth him the Novatians' chief Bishop: it is far from the estate of an archbishop. He might well call him so in respect of his singular learning/ and piety: or in that he was bishop of the chiefest place in Africa. And the same may be said off Cornelius being Patriarch. For otherwise in authority he could not be: seeing himself confesseth/ that patriarchs were appointed at the council off Nice/ about 150. years after. Albeit the truth is/ that the appointment of those 4. patriarchal seats/ was not by the Council off Nice/ but off Chalcedon. Neither doth it follow that if Cornelius were a Pairiarch/ therefore he was Prince of many bishops: unless he will say that because 
a Tertull. adverse. Hermog.  Tertullian calleth Philosophers patriarchs of Heretics, and 
b jerom. praef. in Tit.  Jerome Tacianus, the Patriarch of Encratites: therefore Philosophers/ and Tacianus bore dominion over the Heretics/ or Encratites. He might be so called in that he was chief father of the church of Rome/ where he executed his office: as 
c jerom. in 3. cap. Isay.  Jerome witnesseth off the jews Rabbins to have been called patriarchs: yet they had no government/ or rule/ but in the several Synagogues where they taught.  
Now it appeareth the Ans. can not bring so much as one silly testimony/ to prove this place of Cyprian understood of th'archbishops/ or metropolitanes authority: besides that alleged of Muscu. flatly denying that Cyp. thowght of any Archbis. or Metrop. but only of every Bishop in his own church: I will add the testimony of 
d Bucer against thaccusa. of Choclaeus, and Gropperus to the Emper.  Bucer/ who affirmeth the very same that I Showing against the Pope/ that Christ only is universal bishop/ he assigneth this reason: For he is present with his sheep, and with every of them, and feedeth them until the end of the world: and for this cause putteth ministers in his place, and that to every church her several minister. For he did not only give Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, and ministers off many churches once: but giveth also daily unto every church of his her ministers, Pastors, and Doctors: and both instructeth, and leadeth them with his spirit, that they may serve their ministries, himself only giving increase unto their planting, and watering. For unto every one of them, he hath appointed a proper portion of the flock, as S. Cyprian testified by warrant of tradition of Christ, and his Apostles: and that with this condition, and power, that every one together with his presbytery, and Clergy should rule his whole flock, as one which should make account off his own act: not unto the Pope of Rome, but to the Lord. which is the Prince of Pastors. Amongst whom, no man might appoint himself bishop of bishops, or judge an other, or be judged of an other: whereupon the judgement of the bishop belonged unto Synods, not unto one bishop, as long as the policy of the church given by th'apostles, stood. Therefore bishops were equal, not only in power of the keys (by which fable Latomus would elude the place of Cyprian) but also in use, and degree of power, and jurisdiction. In the end/ shutting up all that he had said off the metropolitans/ he saith: This is the sentence off the catholic church, concerning the power of bishops as well of Rome, as others, grounded on the word of God, approved by canons, observed off all true bishops. Wherein Bucer affirmeth that this portion of the flock which Cyprian speaketh off/ is the charge off every minister in his several church: and that by institution of Christ/ and his apostles/ no minister or bishop can have an other bishop to judge him/ but that if there be a fault in him/ it is to be judged by Synods. Thus I leave to the reader's judgement/ how it was more easy for the Ans. to say/ the godliest, and learnedest writers expound the place of Cyprian of an archbishop: then to show it/ when it cometh to proof. And although he fall flat under the burden undertaken in his first book: yet as although he had not half his load/ he 
pag. 550.  hath charged himself a fresh. For where before he said/ the godliest, and learnedest expound this of an archbishop: now he saith/ all learned writers expound it as he doth. It were well there were some reasonable proportion/ between the tongue and the hand. for it can not be but a fowl fault/ to be so long tongued/ and so short handed.  
Before I come to Jerome's testimony/ the order off times for the better understanding off this cause/ requireth that those both authorities/ and examples be answered/ which the Answerer hath alleged/ both before/ out off the Council off Nice and Antioch/ and after/ pa. 470. etc. The next to the times of Cyprian/ is Dionysius Alexandrinus: which (saith he) had under his jurisdiction all the churches in Pentapolis, as Athanasius testifieth in a certain epistle, Apolog 2. First/ there is no such thing in all that book/ nor in no epistle contained therein. The place he meaneth of/ is in an epistle he wrote concerning Dionysius judgement/ against the Arian heresy. Then/ it is not said (as he reporteth) that all the churches of Pentapolis were under his jurisdiction: but only that he had care of those churches, or (as the translators words be) the care of those churches appertained unto him. Which what little or no weight they have to prove archiepiscopal jurisdiction: shall be seen when we come to the place/ where the sense of this to have care, is discussed. In the mean time it is to be observed for better trial of this matter/ which I have before noted out of Eusebius: that he succeeded in the bishopric of Alexandria unto his predecessor/ without attributing unto him any further charge. And when as Euseb. declareth/ that he writing unto the churches in Egipte/ wrote unto them by the bore name of the brethren which were in Egypt, without any title betokening any bond/ or knot of ministry towards them: and off the other part writing 
Euse. li. 6. cap. 46.  unto the churches in Alexandria/ entitleth that writing an exhortation unto his flock: he declareth evidently/ that he esteemed Alexandria his proper charge/ and that (saving that both in respect Egypt was his country/ and the peace of his own church was folded up in the welfare of it) his care for Egypt was general/ as for other churches.  
And the very testimony which the Ans. hath alleged/ if it be weighed: doth sufficiently declare how far Dionysius was/ front that antoritie ever the churches of Pentapolis/ which he imagineth. For there is showed/ bow when he understood off certain bishops there/ leavened with the heresy of Sabellius: he sent messengers to them to call them back from their heresy. And when they went yet forward more impudently: what jurisdiction doth he exercise against them? doth he 'cause them to appear before him? sand out the sentence of excommunication/ remove them from their charges/ suspend them/ at the least until some trial of their amendment? none off all these: but saith/ he was by this stubbornness of theirs, compelled to write against them. And yet if Dionysius might have used this authority/ he would no doubt: and if he had/ Athanasius would by no means have let it pass. For if he could have alleged/ that Dionysius had either deposed/ suspended/ or excommunicated those Sabellian bishops: it had been a singular means to have stopped the mouth of the Arrians: which would have borne men in hand/ that Dionysius favoured Sabellius heresy/ and consequently also theirs. And touching the government of his own church in Alexandria: how far it was from that lordly 
Euse. li. 7. ca 20.  dominion/ the bishop's/ and archbishop use now: may appear in that he calleth the elders of the church of Alexandria/ his fellow elders.  
After followeth one Gregory/ which he avoucheth out of Euseb. 7. li. 24. to have governed all the churches through Pontus first/ this word all, is not found there. Secondly/ it is utterly untrue that he saith/ he governed all the churches. For Eusebius joineth Athenodorus with him/ as his match in all points. So that if there were any archbishop there/ it was two headed: contrary to the archbishop's institution/ supposed of his patrons. Thirdly/ it appeareth in an other place/ where Eusebius speaketh of them again/ that they were not bishops of all the churches of Pontus/ 
7. lib. 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  but had only their parishes/ or churches in Pontus. And the cause why Euseb. made mention of those only/ was (as is there apparent) because they were the most famous amongst the bishops in those parts: and therefore by all likelihood chosen out of the rest/ were sent unto the Council of Antioch/ gathered against the heresy of Sabellius. Therforè he which is said off the D. to have been ruler of all the churches of Pontus/ is found to have but one only parish in that circuit.  
Peter/ Bishop of Alexandria followeth: which having regard unto the time wherein he died/ was only about eight years/ before the Council off Nice. So that the Answ. in saying he was 20. years before, must be understanded of the time he entered into his bishopric. Of him Epiphanius saith/ he had the administration of all the churches of Egypt, was archbishop. What manner of archbishopric/ and government this was/ may be gathered by that that Epiphanius saith/ Miletius was archbishop likewise, and had the government together with him. And not that only/ but that Miletius occupied the second place in the archbishopric with Peter. Whereby Epiphanius giveth to understand/ that there was the third and fourth/ and consequently as many archbishop's/ as there were bishops of name/ and estimation amongst them: which beside their own/ procured the good of other churches round about. This is further confirmed in that Epiphanius (as rendering the cause why he calleth Miletius Archbishop/ and to have the second place after Peter) saith/ Miletius seemed to excel the other bishops in Egypt: And where it is said/ that Miletius was under peter: it is to be understanded that he was under him in honour/ and not subject unto him as unto a commander/ or as to one which had dominion over him: as it shall appear by the Council off Nice after/ and as the discourse of Epiphanius story/ plainly showeth. For where as between Peter/ and his adherentes of the one part/ and Meletius and his fellows of the other/ being shut in in prison for testimony of the truth/ there fell a controversy about receiving those which had fallen in time of persecution: Peter (as Epiphanius reporteth) desired, and made supplication unto Miletius, and the rest saying, let us receive them, and appoint them a penance. And when he could not gain his cause by prayer/ and supplication: he spread out a vail in the middaste off the prison/ and proclaimed by a deacon/ that as many as were off his side▪ should come unto him: and those which were of Melitius part, should go to him. Whereupon a few joined themselves unto him, the greater number remaining with Melitius. In which count off Epiphanius/ there is neither any authority/ or dominion pretended by Peter over the rest/ nor any subjection acknowledged off the other. but there is to be seen contrariwise all fellowlike behaviour of one towards an other. And unless this be the property of an Archbishop/ to be author off a horrible schism/ and rent in the church (whereas it is vaunted of him/ that he compoundeth schisms made by other) there appeareth nothing in Peter in that whole action/ Archbishoplike. If the Answ. say/ the prison was no place where he could exercise his archiepiscopal authority: the reply is easy/ that he might as well exercise it there/ as out of prison. For it being a time of persecution/ he could use no where any other constraint then by the ecclesiastical censures: and those (having as appeareth a company with him in prison) he might as well use there/ as being at liberty.  
Hitherto I trust hath appeared/ that there hath been not so much as any footing/ or kold sent either off archbishop/ or metropolitan such as ours: it followeth to examine that out of the Nicene Council, which bringeth the first tidings of the metropolitans. Where we having confessed that there were metropolitans/ denied that they were like ours how truly/ resteth to be considered. First/ that which the Answ. can most pretend out of this Council/ for jurisdiction of metropolitans over Bishops of the same Province/ is the bishop of Alexandria, ought to have power over the bishops in Egypt, Lybia, and Pentapolis. These are the sounding words/ and which carry the greatest noise of Metropolitan authority. If therefore it fall out that these words to have power/ bring more show in the eye/ then weight in the balance: then the Answ. is greatly fallen from his hope/ which thinketh to reap of this peace/ dominion off the Metropolitan over other bishops. The words which the D. turneth 
g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  to have government, signify in that place nothing but to ᵍ have chief dignity, or honour Which is apparent/ for that the same thing being attributed unto Rome/ Antioch/ and other metropolitan church's/ is uttered by the word 
a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  honourable reward, the same that 
b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  dignity in the next canon where be speaketh off the bishop of jerusalem: as it is also noted off 
c De statu primitivae Eccl. pag. 23.  Villerius/ where he confirmeth this signification of the word/ 
d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  pre-eminence, out of Plato. This may be further understanded/ by that Beza writeth upon these words/ he gave all these which believed in him this dignity, or prerogative, that they should be called the children of God. 
e Beza upon 1. john.   
Now what this dignity/ and pre-eminence was/ may easily be seen by that the bishop of Rome having 
f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  pre-eminence, or dignity over the bishop off Constantinopel/ Alexandria/ etc. had nothing thereby more than they/ saving only the first place in their meetings seeing therefore these words translated to have power, signify nothing but to have honour, which consisted only in having the highest place: by these words of the Council groweth nothing to the Metropolitan/ but only to sit in the highest place at meetings. This may also appear by the same ʰ Council/ 
g Concil. Nic. can. 5.  where it is said/ that if there rise disorder in any church which is not compounded, it ought to be decided at the provincial Council, which was therefore to be holden twice every year: in which faults were to be corrected, not by the Metropolitan/ but by the bishops together. And because the Council here referreth us/ to that accoustomed before: it is to be considered what that was/ so far as we have testimony. The bishops assembled at Nice/ brought their quarrels one against an other/ 
Euseb. 2. li. de vit. Const.  and offered them to the Emperor: which they would not have done/ at lest so generally/ if there had been any such order taken off referring their debates to the Metropolitan. The Emperor likewise receiving their bills/ and answering that it pertained 
Sozom. 1. lib. ca 17.  not unto him to decide those matters: sendeth them not to their metropolitans to be judged/ but adiourneth them to the judgement off God. Yet if there had been any such authority ecclesiastical of the metropolitans: the Emperor/ as he was very religious in those observations/ would not by all likelihood/ have failed in that.  
Likewise writing jointly to Alexander bishop/ and Arius Elder of Alexandria/ amongst other things he saith: it was not meet they should rule so great a people, being divided among themselves. Where it is to be observed/ that howsoever these words so great a people be taken/ whether for the church of Alexandria/ or for all Agipt/ etc. the Bishop governed not alone/ but by consent/ and advise of the Elders of that church. Then if the Ans. will refer this government to the whole countries of Egypt/ Lybia/ etc. and take it in that signification he doth/ for bearing dominion, and commanding the rest: not the bishop only/ but every Elder of Alexandria/ had commandment not only over the Elders/ but over the bishops themselves of other churches. Which if it be absurd: that whereof it followeth/ must be likewise. This is all that I find the Nicene Council giveth to the Metropolitan above the rest: how little it is/ and how small a part off that the Answ. presumeth/ let the reader judge. That he ought to be no bishop, which is made without consent off his Metropolitan, is a very silly prerogative: seeing it was the order of the church in those times/ that all the bishops of the Province/ should be at the 
Theod▪ 5. li. 23. ca  making off a Bishop. And as the election of the people was void/ if the Metropolitan were not at it: so was it also if there were not three bishops at the lest present. Let us see now whether the practice of the Metropolitanship/ will fall out any more fanourable for this pretended jurisdiction.  
Athanasius followeth: on whom the D. would fasten this archbishopric: first/ because Ischaras submitted himself unto him by letters. As if every one which hath offended an other/ doth by his submission acknowledge him an archbishop/ whom he hath offended: and as if Ischaras ought not to have done as much unto any bishop in the Province/ if he had belonged unto his parish/ as he did unto that of Athanasius. Secondly because Arsenius, and those of his diocese, wrote letters of submission unto Athanasius. The print off the diocese is so deeply set in the D. head/ that what soever he meeteth with/ he turneth into it. For there is there no mention of diocese/ but off a city. As for the submission he maketh/ it is not to Athanasius/ but unto the ecclesiastisticall canons: only he acknowledgeth him Metropolitan/ and that without his sentence he will make no Ecclesiastical decree pertaining unto the church: which we deny not. For we confess 
Athanas. Apol. 2.  that there were then metropolitans. and as Arsenius could not make any decree to wching the whole church in the province: no more could Athanasius without Arsenius: as hath been before out of the former book declared. But that he was subject unto Athanasius, there is not a word: the clean contrary is to be plainly seen. For Arsenius in his fare well writeth thus; we and those with us, salute the whole company off sacred men which are in thy jurisdiction. by which words he manifestly exempteth himself/ from the jurisdiction of Athanasius. Whereupon it must follow/ that the office of Metropolitaneship in those days/ implied no subjection/ nor authority to command/ over other bishops in his province. And Athanasius in calling the bishops there/ his fellow ministers often times: declareth 
Athana. Apol. 2.  in what place he had them/ not as subjects/ but as his fellows. And that the A. escape not with that Popish shift/ that Athanasius thereby did declare his humility: it is to be seen in that book/ that the other bishops do more than half a dozen times/ call him their fellow minister, barely/ without other title. Now if Athanasins not of right/ but of his great humility called himself their fellow minister: yet the other bishops in so calling him/ when they were subject unto him/ and at his commandment/ are to be charged not only as void off Christian humility/ but also as forgetful even of all comen civility/ and good manners.  
That added off Athanasius visiting off Mariotes, and the Provinces there, as they are called: pertaineth nothing unto this question. for there were no bishops in that place: and what he did in that behalf did not as Archbishop/ but as Bishop: that territory belonging unto Alexandria. And not only Archbishops/ but bishop's/ yea Elders visited the parishes of other bishops. As for 
Tom 1 Concil. Const. Cart. 4. 33. cap.  that the parishes in the territory of Mariotes, had neuer● bishop, but belonged unto Athanasius: beside that I have showed that corruptions had greatly prevailed at that time/ it is to be observed that it is there put as a strange thing/ and unwonted that one bishop should have so large ground. For unless that be the authors end: there was no cause why he should have used that kind of speech. Which may better appear/ forsomuch as 
Socr. li. 1. ca 27.  Socrates speaking off this story/ interlaceth the same sentence: when as speaking off the places of bishops else where/ he never mentioneth any such thing.  
The canons of Arles Council, off that attributed unto the Apostles, and of Antioch follow. The first/ hath nothing not granted/ and serveth for filling only. The second/ supposed of the Apostles/ is 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  the same with that of Antioch. That off Antioch/ is first unfaithfully translated/ after untruly gathered upon. For where the Council saith/ that the Bishop president in the Metropolitan city: should have care of the Province, because all men which have business use to come from all places, to the Metropolitan city. he hath pag. 332. turned the words of the Council upside down/ putting in steed off because all men etc. wherefore all men, etc. making that the effect which it maketh the cause/ and the cause which it maketh th'effect. The Counsels meaning is/ that forsomuch as men do usually for other business/ resort to the Metropolitan city: therefore the bishop of it was most fit/ to whom controversies should be browgt. He translateth also for parish, diocese: and so in steed that the council supposeth the bishop to have under his charge often times/ beside those in the town he dwelleth in/ certain villages which resort unto his church/ as in Hitchin/ and divers other places with us: he to be sure to put in enough/ supposeth by his translation/ that the bishops had a diocese/ and their places beside. If by diocese he mean such as ours: I would gladly know/ what those places were/ which the bishops had beside their dioceses: when as in the largest spread of bishops/ they were notwithstanding tethered within the compass off other dioceses. If by it he mean a parish/ such as every minister with us is assigned unto: why useth he diocese, to deceive the reader/ especially when the councils words pulled him to the word of paris he? If he will excuse this later fault/ and lay it upon the translator of the Counsels/ which turneth Parish. 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Dioeces.  Diocese: he confirmeth at unawares that which I said/ that at the first a diocese and parish were often confounded. Howbeit that the Counsels words can not bear that signification/ as we take Diocese/ is before declared.  
Upon these words he gathereth/ the hishops are subject unto the metropolitan, and that the council willeth them to be so: which is very 
pag. 333. pag. 471.  untrue, for there is no word in that canon/ that proveth subjection/ much less expresseth. As for the honour which they should give him: I have showed what it is out of the Council off Nice: the care for other churches in the Province cometh after to be considered. For the bringing off matters unto him/ which they could not end at home: it appeareth by divers places/ that they were not brought to him to determine/ but only to make relation off/ unto the provincial council: and that he could end 
Triparti. hist. li. 9 cap. 13. Carth. 4. ca 25. Constanti. 1. cap. 3.  no matter/ but which advise off other Bishops in the same Province. In the African Council it was decreed/ that if a 
a Aphr. conc 87. c.  bishop striving with an other about the territories, entered into them without having resolution of the other bishops: althowgh he had the people's consent, and metropolitans letres, he should lose his cause. In the Council of 
b Sard. conc 9 c.  Sardis/ about the same time with that off Antioch/ the bishops call their Metropolitan, brother, and fellow bishop. What Lordship and dominion can be gathered off these things/ I know not.  
And that this was the first institution of metropolitans which I have alleged/ and that I have herein not strayed from the meaning of the Counsels/ may appear by the testimonies 
Institut. 4. li. 4 ca sect. 4.  of others/ which have spoken off this matter. Caluin saith: they were instituted, for preservation only of the policy: and what that was/ he showeth by the bishop/ the same in his own church/ which the Metropolitan in the Province. That it was as the office of a Precedent in a Council, to propound matters, together 
4. li. 4. c. sect 2.  the voices, etc. and to put that in execution, which was decreed by the rest: denying flatly that he had any dominion over the Elders of the same church, and affirming that he him self was subject to the company of the elders The same therefore by his judgement/ must be the state of the Metropolitan/ 
In his aswer to Choclaeus and Groperus: of their accusat. to the Emp.  towards other Bishops. Bucer saith/ there were certain in bishops assigned to the chief seats, whereof they had a singular care: which did not be have themselves as bishops over the bishops of those dioceses, but if any of them faulted: admonished him as one brother doth an other, as one fellow, and companion in office doth an other. And if the bishop admonished, either did not, or could not amend the fault: he made relation of the whole matter unto the Synod. After he showeth that at the first the excellency, and pre-eminence of the bishop of Rome, Constantinople, and Alexandria, etc. was not of power and jurisdiction, but of knowledge, zeal, care, and help of others: which those chief bishops did so yield unto the churches, that they left the whole right off the bishop's office, equal with that they themselves executed, unto every bishop. Bullinger/ after he had proved all dominion/ primacy/ and majority 
Serm. 57 upon the Apocal. / forbidden by our Saviour Christ unto the minister/ saith: From the beginning the apostles, and ministers off the churches which followed the rule off the apostles, governed their churches equally, without that one was preferred before an other (which he offereth to prove by many testimonies): and about the council off Nice, and a little before, metropolitans by man's ordinance not to be contemned, were received: which should as it were be presidents unto the rest, or rather serve all the rest in calling Synods. And it was very warily provided, that he should not be called the primate, lest any man should think, that he was superior unto other in power, but in order only.  
Wherein almost all the points off the Archbishop/ and Metropolitan/ debated between the Answ. and us/ are contained. For first/ he denieth that there was any preferment of one minister above an other/ in the Apostles times. Secondly he saith/ the office of the Metropolitan came in a little before the Council off Nice. Thirdly/ that it was not lawful for that metropolitan to be called primate. Fourthly/ that he had no power over the rest/ but served only for keeping of order in meetings. All which things we affirm/ and the D. denieth: and that not without a triumph. As for that he saith/ this institution of man is not to be despised it appeareth that he meant not to commend it/ but only to signify that if it had remained in that simplicity it might have been the easilier borne: especially/ considering they have no such order of metropolitans/ with them. The B. of Salisbury/ unto Harding objecting that the primates had authority 
Defence. Apolo. 2. pa. 3. c. 5. divis.  over inferior bishops/ answereth: they had it by agreement, and custom, but neither by Christ, nor by Peter, nor Paul, nor by any right of God's word. Whereby not only is confirmed/ that which I propounded/ off my not varying from the godly writers: but also falleth the D. dream/ that they were instituted by the Apostles. Yea further appeareth/ that their institution with authority over other/ was unlawful: as that which hath no manner warrant out of the word off God.  
Having answered the councils/ I return unto Jerome's place/ as it is set down off the Ans. He saith/ it is a poor refuge to discredit the author. I spared the author/ casting part of the error upon 
In 3. c. diuis. 16 p. 369.  the times wherein he lived: which I proved corrupter and further from the truth left by th'apostles/ by a reason which he could not so much as wrangle with: although as touching the proof of an archbishop/ or bishop such as ours/ I am content the Ans. set up his credit as much as he william. He saith/ there is no difference between Cyprians bisbop, and Jerome's. seeing he will needs have it so/ let one measure be off both: and thereby I trust shall appear/ off that which I have spoken before/ that Jerome's bishop is lower by head and shoulders/ then they for whom his authority is holden out. Howbeit if in Cyprians time/ the bishop only had not the laying on of hands/ and ordaining him that was chosen to the ministry by the church/ but the Elders: and he did nothing in his church, or parish but with advise of 
Cypr. 10. Epist. li. 3  the Elders thereof: it appeareth that Jerome's bishop/ unless differing only from an other minister/ in ordaining Elders/ and Deacons/ had somewhat encroached upon the bounds of the presbytery/ more than Cyprians Lastly he saith/ for the corruption of times, this kind of bishop was devised. I willingly give testimony unto those governors/ or at lest the most of them/ that they had a good meaning in that invention of man: but that it was remedy against the corruptions/ I deny. And to the reasons before alleged for proof thereof/ let this be added: that even from the first day/ wherein this devise was established/ the corruption in the church was not diminished/ but grew/ and got strength by little/ until the whole face of the earth was covered/ and the power of darkness/ in the fullness of Antichristes kingdom/ wholly settled. Likewise/ that the first resistance by any settled church against that corruption/ was by those which abolished that devise of man/ and received the order in the apostles times/ touching the equality of ministers. As the Bohemians/ Merindoles/ the churches in Germany/ and Geneva: whose standard bearers (as partly hath appeareth/ and more hereafter shall) fowght against this stately dominion both of bishops/ and archbishops  
The next divis. I leave to the reader's judgement/ referring him to that answered in the beginning. In the next/ as one whose forehead is more hard than Adamant/ he shameth not still 
pag. 371.  to affirm/ that this manner of bishop, and archbishop was in the Apostles time: notwithstanding the author out of whom he draweth his proofs/ confesseth that at the first there was no difference between a bishop and an Elder: and that after it was decreed/ that in every church one only should have the name of bishop. If it were the first institution that they should be one/ and the first institution be the apostles institution: it was the apostles institution that they should be all one. if the apostles did revoke this institution of theirs: show their hands/ bring forth their evidence. Jerome proveth by divers testimonies of scripture/ that a bishop and elder were one/ according to S. Paul Therefore if the D. avoid this authority: he must show us the apostles authority in writing. for herein it is true that the law saith/ matter of writing and record, can not be avoided but by that of as high a nature. He gathereth that this order of bishops/ and archbis. was in th'apostles times/ because there were schisms then. I have by this reason proved in an other place/ that th●●e were no archbishops: where if he had any thing/ he should have spoken. And how is he bewitched which seeth not the words of his author? For when 
a ad Eua.  Jerome saith/ this came by custom: he evidently declareth that ●● was not by determination of the apostles. The same declareth 
b in an Epistle unto jero.  Augustin when he saith/ the office of a bishop was greater than off an other minister, as touching the names off honour, throwghe a custom of the church, which now hath gotten the upper hand. Likewise when 
c Ad usus Lucif.  Jerome saith/ this preferment of the bishop is not by any necessity of law, but for that it was granted to honour him withal: it is manifest that it was not by the Apostlels determination. For if it had been their institution: it had been necessary.  
After admitting it was after the apostles/ he proceedeth to answer 
d Contr. Prax.  Tertullian which saith/ that is true which is first, that is false which is later. But how cometh it to pass/ that he anwereth not that alleged out of our Saviour Christ's ᵉ words: which calleth the pharisees unto the first institution? that 
Mat. 19 ●●.  was belike to hard for him to bite upon. And the answer unto Tertullian is absurd. For he bringeth him in reasoning as he useth: that is/ proving the thing in controversy/ by that a like doubtful. For if the rule of Tertullian extend it self no further/ then unto things he there speaketh of/ and in debate: his reason is no reason/ but a giddy turn about/ wherein altowghe great pains be taken/ yet there is no ground gotten. Whereas Tertullian prove thee/ that Praxeas judgement of our Sau. Christ was therefore nought/ because it was new/ and new because it was not agreeing with that given by the scripture. Moreover his answer to the place/ presumeth that the government of the church is not a matter of faith/ and salvation: which is the question. And as for his Fantasies he resembleth my reason with/ they have nothing like. For beside that there were Christian magistrates/ baptisinge in churches/ communion ministered unto more than 12▪ in th'apostles times/ and of their allowance: the apostles never taught that there should be no Christian magistrates/ no baptisinge hut in rivers/ no eating off things strangled/ etc. (the contrary of all which they plainly taught/ ordaining only that the Gentiles should support the jews/ in strangled things/ about they rawght that a bishop and traching elder be all one/ and never allowed that one Pastor should take the name off a bishop from all his fellows within 40. miles compass. The testimony out of Tertull/ maketh way for Montanus heresy: 
In the ●● Tractat▪  whereof I have spoken beforé.  
Unto the next divis. he answereth not. For it being plain that the apostles taught/ that a bishop and elder were all one: because he had nothing to answer/ he leaveth that/ and runnethe back to that handled in the beginning/ off the equality of ministers. As for the testimony out of Zuinglius: first it is untrue/ that the Anabaptistes' object this place against Zuinglius, which I have pressed him with: secondly/ it is untrue that they objected unto him in the like case which we do. for in all their controversies with him/ they have not one of those points now debated. And where he saith/ Tertullian'S words serve not/ because these degrees are not against the truth: let him deny if he dare/ that this is the truth of God/ that a Bishop/ and an other minister off the word/ be all one. Then let him answer whether these sayings (a bishop/ and an other minister off the word are all one: a bishop/ and an other minister off the word be not all one) be opposed/ and set one against an other. If he can deny none of these/ then it is justly concluded: that this invention of man/ which hath made a bishop to differ from another minister off the word/ is against the truth.  
Because I love not that compass off words/ which the D. delighteth in/ I concluded shortly/ and yet sufficiently to the understanding 
Diuis. 20. etc. pag. 372. etc.  off any/ that doth not willingly blindefolde him self. My argument is: The best deciding off controversies, was in the apostles time: but that was not by archbishops: wherefore the best deciding of controversies, is not by archbishops. for proof that it was not by archbis./ I set down that there were no archbishops then. Unto this deformed face of reason (as he calleth it) let us see how formally he answereth. first he saith/ we are not bound to the form of government, used by the apostles: and therein referreth himself to that he hath/ and shall say: where also let him take his answer. Secondly/ that although the apostles had not 
Divis. 19 Pag. 310.  the name off Archbishops/ yet they had the office: which I have showed to be a shift of the Papists. Then it is to be observed/ how he proveth that th'apostles had the office of an archbishop/ 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The mean is consequent to both the extremes.  and in what good logic. Archbishops have the direction of many churches, the ending off controversies, etc. the Apostles had the same: therefore the apostles were archbishops. by this reason a man may prove not only divers/ but contrary things to be all one: seeing contraries have divers things wherein they agreed. So that first this kind of reasoning hath the fault of those ridiculous arguments/ which the D. propoundeth pag. 316. secondly it taketh for granted/ which is the question. For he presumeth that the Archbishop's office keepeth the church in godly quietness: which is debated. Thirdly/ to prove the apostles authority in the churches (which is not in question) he hath made a great muster of testimonies: to prove the archbishops/ not a word. After he citeth Ambrose/ to prove that Apostles are bishops. It is great marvel if he keep good order in the church/ for whose establishment the Answ. is constrained/ thus to confounded/ and make a broil off all: and it is before confuted.  
Howbeit admitting that the bishops succeed unto the apostles in preaching the word/ and governing the church: I have 
In 3. Tra. Diuis. 4.  showed how that is a whip to drive the archbishop clean out of the church off God. And this is here to be observed/ that when it is said the bishops succeed unto the apostles etc. that must be understanded off the Apostles bishops/ and such as they instituted. For what bishops have better right to succeed the Apostles/ then they? But those were (as I have showed) bishops of singular congregations/ bishop's which had no superiotitie over their fellowbishops'/ as Jerome doth confess. In the end he saith/ If I can prove by good authority, that one was governor amongst the 12. Apostles: it shall not seem strange to have an archbishop over a Province. If upon this that one had government of 12. assembled in a particular place/ he can conclude that there should be one governor of the ministers in a Province: I can with better reason conclude / that there may be one to govern all the ministers in the world. For if because one governed twelve/ therefore one may govern all in Province: then because one may govern all in a Province/ I will conclude that one may govern all in the world. As touching the number off those which are governed/ there is not so much difference between the ministers off a Province/ and the ministers off the whole church: as between 12. and the ministers off some whole Province. touching the distance of place/ it is as much between a Province/ and the will extent of Christianity: as between a particular place off an acre breadeth/ and some Province. Wherefore this reason is more favourable to the Pope/ then to the Archbishop. Peter's superiority shall be after seen: where also this sentence of Jerome shall be answered. Only here let it be observed/ that the Answ. hath borrowed this reason of Pope Anaclete/ which allegeth it to prove Archbishops. 
Tom. 1: Concil. li. 3. ca ●. Hierar. ecclesia.  And it is brought also of Pighius against the protestants/ which denied that there ought to be any archbishops: as shall appear hereafter more at large.  
The place of Caluin/ is handled afterward: Bucers upon the Ephes. I have answered. That out of his book de Reg. Ch. the same in effect/ hath the same answer. Howbeit it is here to be noted/ how the D. thorough greedy desire of seeming to say somewhat/ putteth down with one hand that he setteth with the other. For to the maintenance of the archbishop and bishop/ here be brought two testimonies/ one of Jerome/ tother of Bucer clean contrary. If Jerome say true/ that the superiority off one Bishop over an other is by custom, not by institution of God: then is that untrue pretended out of Bucer/ that it pleased the holy ghost it should be so. For if it be off the holy ghost it is the institution of God. The D. therefore must forego one of these/ seeing that both will never draw in one forowgh. The contrariety with myself, which the gloss chargeth me with/ is for that pag. 349. I said out of Eusebius/ that as long as th'apostles lived, if any went about to corrupt the doctrine, they dit it in the dark: and here (out of the Apostle) I affirm/ there were heresies, and schisms. Wherein what contrariety there is/ and what a trifler this is/ let the reader judge. saving that if there were any contrariety: it is not mine with myself/ but Eusebius with the Apostle.  
The Answ. would gird up his Archbishop in smaller room/ that he might seem less grown out of fashion. He saith 
Divis. 22. Pag. 373. etc.  therefore/ the archbishop when a schism, or heresy riseth, determineth it according to the law established by the church. Wherein he speaketh absurdly/ considering that the church can make no other rule/ whereby he may proceed in decision of schisms/ and heresies: then in referring him to the rule off the scripture. So the sum of this answer is/ the Archbishop may not determine the matter at his pleasure/ but according to the word off God. As although the question were/ by what rule controversies should be decided: and not by whom. For when the controversy at Antioch was referred to the Apostles/ etc. in jerusalem: it was not permitted unto them otherwise to judge off it/ then according to the word. Now therefore let it be observed how aptly the D. answereth. To abat● the swelling authority of the Archbishop/ I allege that in deciding controversies/ it is not permitted to any one to determine what is the will of God in that behalf. The D. saith/ the archbishop must determine by the word off God. As though if the matter had been committed to S. Paul only/ it should not have been with the same bond off keeping him to the word: yet it was not so committed/ as I have alleged. And if he think more succour for him in the words he used/ the archbishop must determine according to the rule of the church: it is certain also that the company of Apostles/ and Elders in jerusalem/ and what company soever meeteth together about the ending of such matters/ is subject unto all lawful and commendable orders off the church/ provided for the more orderly proceeding in that behalf. So that there being nothing here alleged by the D. which agreeth not unto the Apostles/ and Angels themselves: the excessive authority of th'archbishop doth still appear/ in that he alone endeth controversies/ which in the Apostolic church was not committed but unto many.  
For as for that in the next divis. (he compoundeth not controversies by himself alone) unless he mean that he hath his servants the Chancellor/ and Archdeacon/ or some other of his own ch●●s●▪ the book set out by th'archbishop of late/ doth declare the contrary: and the experience off his visitations/ and deposing off ministers doth openly convince him of untruth. If he say he is not alone/ he hath them following him: he must understand/ that because either the archbishop carrieth their voices under his girdle/ or if they use the freedom which is meet/ yet the approbation dependeth upon the archbishop's beck: he can no more accounted them to be divers/ then a man and his shadow following him. And where in his former book he saith/ the chief office of an archbishop is to compound contentions, schisms, etc. here being put to his shift/ he changeth 
Pag. 35●.  his speech/ saying/ it is his principal office to provide that contentions, etc. be cut of. Where he addeth/ or else with the Prince's consent he setteth an order in a provincial Synod: If there be any Synod/ either to take the judgement out of his hand/ or control the sentence given by him/ it is like to be sore against his william. So that the remedy off this mischief/ dependeth only upon the civil power: which if either it be enemy to religion/ or entangled with the present heresy (as hath/ and may hereafter come to pass): the church being without remedy must languish/ and pine away.  
He saith/ this example of the matter carried to jerusalem, proveth that every parish within it self, hath no absolute authority to end controversies, but it behoveth to resort unto the chief church: the contrary whereof appeareth. For in that they both debated the cause amongst themselves/ and when they could not agreed/ decreed to sand it to jerusalem: it is sufficiently declared that they had authority to end it amongst them/ and that it was not wrung from them by necessity of law/ or pretence of higher authority: but voluntarily sent up to jerusalem. although for this place in hand it is sufficient/ that the deciding off controversies hung not upon the mouth off one man/ were he never so sufficient: but were referred unto thassemblies of the Ancients/ and ministers of the word. As for his old shifts of the weakness of negative arguments of authority, and of examples of the scripture, and thapostolic church: their folly is opened before. Here he taketh on against my unskilfulness in the scriptures, which referred that unto ministers 
Diuis. 24. pag. 375.  which is spoken off all the church. Howbeit if he had conferred the text/ he should have found that th'apostle speaketh of the Prophe these/ and not of the whole church. For he biddeth that 
b 1. Cor. 11. 29. 31.  two or three of the Prophets should speak, and the other (that is to say Prophets) should give judgement. Which appeareth by the reason added/ 
c ver. 32.  the spirit of the Prophets is subject to the Prophets. Therefore the D. corrupteth the place/ and the argument to prove that not one minster/ but many ought to determine of doubtful causes/ is untouched.  

d divis 25. pag. 375.  Where I pressed him with this/ that 
e Ephes. 4. 13.  unity is fully maintained by the ministries which God hath ordained▪ he asketh how often I will allege it. If it be a fault in me/ to allege one place often upon divers occasions: what is it in him to allege one thing so continually/ upon the same occasion? If he would have opened his eyes/ he should have seen that I used an argument proper to this place/ and not used before. For where he pretendeth the archbishop was ordained to keep unity: I show that without him/ unity is perfectly kept: whereunto he answereth nothing but as before. But I will serve his taste/ and give him change. For the Apostle a little before exhorting to unity/ bringeth also this reason: one body, one spirit, one hope, one Lord, 
Eph. 4. 5.  one faith, one baptism, one God, etc. Whereby appeareth that the apostle took these one, to be sufficient to keep the people of God in unity. And if to have an archbishop had been so necessary: the apostle should have foully forgotten himself/ having so fit a place to speak of him. And as this is aptly opposed/ against the pretended peace by a Pope: so is it likewise/ against that surmised to be brought by the archbishop.  
Where I ask/ what buckler we may have to hold out 
Divis 26. pag. 376.  against the Papists, which come upon us with the name of traditions of the apostles, if we admit that there were archbishops ordained by them, whereof the scripture maketh no mention: he answereth there can be no danger in them, so they be not made necessary to salvation, but such as receive alteration. Which although it be clean contrary to that he said before/ where he bindeth 
In 2. Tra. according to him ca 3. pag. 100  us to observation of them/ as I have showed: yet it shall be sufficient here to let him understand/ that he hath utterly barred himself from this answer/ for that he 
a pag. 35●.  saith/ this ministry of the Archbishop is necessary, yea most necessary. Now if it be most necessary, for preservation of unity of the church: it is plain that it is necessary also for the salvation of it. For the next divis. I have showed 
Diuis. 15.  how absurdly the D. defendeth this roving: where let the reader judge what difference there is/ between our archbishop and Jerome's bishop/ which differed nothing from a comen minister/ but that he had the ordaining off ministers. And here I call once again upon him/ to show any godly and learned writer/ which expoundeth this place of Jerome of an archbishop: to see if he be any happier in this place/ then he was before in Cyprians. The Bishop of Salisb. 
b Defence. Apol. 4. p. 14. c. 1. 2. d.  affirmeth/ that the very meaning of Jerome is, of every bishop in his diocese: and Harding in the end beaten down with the light off the place/ is compelled to 
c Arti. 4. diu. 15.  confess it. The next I leave to the reader to judge/ by that alleged on both sides.  

d Diuis. 29 etc. pag. 477. etc.  The D. saith/ I refuse Jerome in a matter of story, yet I deny no part off his story: wherein he seemeth to have lost all commensense. For who (in whom there is any light of judgement) would say it is matter of story/ whether the appointing off one in every church over the rest, is remedy against heresy or no? I● pertaineth to the story that one was placed over the rest at such time/ and place as is set down by Jerome/ likewise that the cause that moved them to bring in this custom was for preservation of peace: and none of these is denied. but whether this cause were well assigned/ and whether this supposed to preserve peace/ banished godly peace: is the question. If this be a matter of story: story hath a larger kingdom than ever I heard off. Yet this he doth as absurdly charge me with 
e in 63 di. pag. 411.  after/ in justines' testimony: where likewise I deny no part off his story. If this be to discredit men/ to say/ their authority ought not to weigh further, than it hath weight either off scripture, or some reason ground theroff: then I have discredited all writers from the apostles time. For by these weights/ I have esteemed the best. But I leave to be considered/ what a popish tyranny he goeth about to bring into the church: which lifteth the credit of any/ be he never so godly and learned/ above that which I have here alleged  
Where he saith/ I confounded Monarchy with Tyranny, in that I ask whether the church be not in as great danger, when all is done at the pleasure off one, as when one pulleth one piece and an other an other: it is but a vain shifting hole. For unless these words (at the Pleasure and lust off one) be for the most part spoken by way off dispraise/ and I willingly confess I used them/ because this Ecclesiastical monarchy/ seldom or never deserveth better: yet my words following declare/ that my comparison is between the Ecclesiastical government off one/ and off many not between one governing tyrannically/ and many moderately. For supposing that both the Archbishop/ and those which govern in comen be godly/ and catholic: I affirm that he being one/ is sooner drawn into error then many/ sooner overcarried with his affection then a godly company. In answer whereof/ and reasons wherewith this is confirmed/ the D. falleth flatly into that/ wherewith he chargeth me. For in steed that he should have marched many godly/ and learned ministers with one/ he matcheth him with the multitude/ and comen sort: and in steed off comparing one ruling by law/ with many governing by the same/ he compareth him with a lawless company: and in steed off comparing a little water with much of the same kind/ he compareth a little conduit water closed up in lead, with much fennish and muddy. Which what leaden answers they be/ let the reader judge. For in this path of reasoning which he walketh in/ a man may prove it better to have but one eye/ then two: because some see better with one/ then other some with both.  
His answer to that off preferring contention before wicked peace, that we have the true doctrine, and right administration of Sacraments, etc. and therefore no contention is to be moved: is as much to the question as if he had answered off the wether. For the question is not of the estate of our church/ but off all generally: nor whether we have the truth of doctrine/ etc. but by what way it is best kept. His answer to the similitude of fire stricken by flints, is more fond. For I showing by it/ that contention is better than wicked peace: he answereth/ the fire stricken may be in such a time that it may consume the whole country, and that it is madness to light a candle at noon days. As if the fire off the truth which I spoke off/ and so called 
a Luk. 12. 49.  off our Saviour/ can consume any thing but straw/ stubble/ etc. or 
b Philip. 1. 18.  the Apostle were not glad that the truth came forth/ allthowgh by contention: or it were noon day when the heavens thorough ignorance/ and errors are like an haircloth/ which is the time I spoke of. And where having showed that th'archbishop is not fittest to keep the church in possession of the truth/ I admit by way of disputation that he were the fittest: adding that forsomuch as he hath as great force to keep men in error when they are fallen into it, this in commodity ought to drive us to some other government: he answereth/ a monarchy being the worst kind of government when it ruleth by affection, ceaseth not to be lawful when it ruleth by laws. Where first/ I refer the reader to that before/ that it is one thing of the form of church government/ an other of the comment wealth: which is answer to all these slanderous speeches here repeated.  
Secondly/ the church receiveth greater damage by an Archbishop keeping it in error: then the comen wealth by any outrage of tyranny. For there can be no tyranny in the government of the comen wealth so extreme/ wherein there is not something tending to preservation of it/ and consequently off the church. But in the government of an Archbishop fallen from the truth/ and in the swinge off his uncontrolled authority keeping the truth under: there is nothing but destruction and ruin/ without step or footing off the favour of God towards the upholding off the church. Seeing therefore tyranny in the comen wealth is not so great an enemy unto the comen wealth/ as a church tyrant unto the truth: there is better cause to have a Monarchy in the comen wealth/ then in the church: as that which can not stray so far as the other/ from the end whereunto it was ordained. Moreover/ the cause why the Monarchy in comen wealth can not be condemned/ is/ for that it is one of those governements/ which God hath established/ and allowed by his word. But the Archbishopric (to let pass that it is contrary to the word of God) it is sufficient in this consideration/ that it hath no allowance of the same. For thereupon followeth/ that unless the abuse off those things which God hath approved/ can not destroy the lawful use of them: yet this which hath no further allowance then of the mouth off men/ may upon experience off evil husbandry in the church matters/ be worthily rejected. So it may be seen/ that although the Ans. would make one case off a Magistrate/ and archbishop: yet there is as far distance between them/ as between heaven and earth. It resteth to show/ that the archbishopric hath been so far from nourishing the church peace/ that it hath been the knife wherewith all the strings/ and knots thereof have been cut in pieces. Against which the Ans. allegeth/ first the testimonies of Cyprian, and Jerome. Wherein beside that I have showed/ that they help him not: it is before declared/ that neither Cyprians bishop did any thing at all/ nor Jerome's (the ordination excepted) but by common consent off all the elders. Not only because they were at making off the church laws (under which wrinckel the D. would hide the excess of the archbishop's authority): but also for that they had fellowlike authority/ in the deciding off controversies which rose in their several churches/ according unto the laws.  
After/ where I quoted certain places out of the decrees/ and other Canons/ to prove the contention for these offices: the Ans. acknowledgeth nothing there/ that carrieth any sound that ways. Albeit the sound was clear enough/ if he had not been deaf of that ear. For to what end both in the Nycene Council (where the metropolitans are first hard of/ and when they were yet in the cradle) and in many other holden more than 200. years after/ are there found so many canons/ for the acknowledging off the authority off one Metropolitan in every Province? For the honour which he should have/ the name he should be called by/ for the place where they should sit at their meatinge/ for the bounds of their circuit? do not all these declare/ that there were which were enemies to that authority: and that those which were lifted up into it/ had continual war one with an other/ who should be the first/ who the greatest/ who of largest spread? What meaneth it also that they changed the seats so often? so that the second/ or third at one Council/ was fourth at an other/ and none at the third: and contrariwise he that was none before/ was chief afterward? What also that the teritoiries appointed by one Council/ were abbridged by an other/ enlarged again by a third? Is there any man of so small conceit/ which doth not hereby understand/ that this lifting up of one above the rest/ was a bone cast of the devil to 'cause the ministers fall out one with an other: whereby place was made to heresies of all sorts/ to the utter undoing of the church/ and quenching off the gospel? And if the D. had been off so narrow understanding/ that upon so often/ and so divers decrees in this behalf/ he could not conceive the contentions/ which this did breed: yet express words of histories/ which testify generally of the contentions for those pre-eminences/ 
1. Sozom. 1. ca 7. li. 2. ca  of councils (as it may appear by the canons of the Aphrican council which I have alleged: of the Tauritan/ which showeth that the Frenshe bishops/ strove which church should have the Metropolitanship/ and how the bishop of Arles/ and Viena fell out for the same) were ready to have informed him of the truth in this behalf. Yea in the discourse of the Council of Nice/ whereon 
Socr. 1. li. 8. c. Sozom. 1. li. 17. M. Fox. The book of the 70 Arch. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Eph. 4. 3.  the chief credit off the Metropolitan dependeth/ he might have red how almost all the Bishops assembled there/ had quarrels one with an other. Which when they were not (as doth appear) for diversity of judgement in religion: it is easy to understand/ that they were for the causes above rehearsed. And if he could be ignorant of all these: yet our stories at home/ which specify the combats/ and going together by the ●ares for these causes/ offered unto him a plentiful proof of all these things. Whherby it appeareth/ that this Metropolitaneship was the very apple of contention/ in schambling for which/ the church was miserably haled in pieces. Therefore forasmuch as the Apostle showeth/ that the truth is kept by the bond of unity/ and it being most manifest that these smoky titles of honour/ were cause off contention: it followeth that so far they are from that pretended/ off being bulwerckes against heresies/ and schisms: that they were the principal hooks that pulled them in.  
The Papists say that there may be a bishop of all the whole 
Divis. 31.  church/ because there may be of a province: I/ that there can be 
pag. 380. etc.  neither of one/ nor other. They would establish the Pope by the Archbishop: and I overthrow the Archbishop by the Pope. This is great joining with the Papists. If I would take the advantage off your own words/ first that 
a pa. 368.  there is the same reason of one over a diocese, and over a Province, and a gain that 
b Pag. 373.  forsomuch as one was over 12. therefore one may be over a whole province: I need not seek for further defence/ as I have there declared. But against this M. Caluin, and M. Nowell be brought: which say there is not the same reason, of one over the whole church, and over a province. let it be so. For the one is a more prouder title/ then the other: breaketh in further into the the prerogative of Christ/ then the other. And if the church must needs be accumbered either with Pope/ or Archbishop: let us grant so much to the archbishop/ that to avoid the Pope's iron furnaies/ we would be content to grind in his mill: and to a void the scourge off the one/ pass by the whip off the other: yet heroff followeth not/ but that it is true I have set down. For although they are not in all points a like/ nor every reason which concludeth the one/ concludeth the other: it hindereth not but there are certain reasons/ which conclude both a like.  
That this point off keeping peace in the church/ is one of those which requireth as well a Pope over all the Archbishops/ as an archbishop over all the bishops in a realm: I will go no further then to the causes yourself have assigned. For where I show that unity may be kept without an Archbishop/ you assign two causes/ for which in keeping unity it is meet to have an Archbishop: the one/ to call the bishops together when there is variance: 
pag. 364.  the other/ to put them in mind of their duties. And if an Archbishop be necessary for calling of a provincial council/ when there is cause of assembly/ and when the bishops are divided: it is necessary there be also a Pope which may call the general Council/ when there is division between the Archbishops/ an other cause of general Council. For when the churches of one Province be divided from other/ and the archbishops are at variance: as you ask me/ so I ask you/ who shall assemble them together? who shall admonish them off their duties, when they are assembled? If you can find a way how this may be done without a Pope: the way is also found/ whereby the church is disbourdened off the Archbishop.  
Of the authorities you allege/ neither affirm that the government of an Arbishop over a Province/ is convenient: only they affirm that there is more likelihood in the one/ then in the other/ and that there were archbishops in the church when there were no Popes. if one should conclude that because a man may touch the moon with his hand/ therefore he may touch the son: and it be said for answer/ that although it be possible to touch the moon/ yet it followeth not so of the son: who is there of so little judgement which would gather of this answer/ that one may touch the moon with his hand? And as this proveth that one may overthrow one impossible thing by an other/ without teaching either of them possible: so that I have alleged 467. pag. pertaining to this matter (of one which against him that would allegde jacob's two wives, to prove he might have as many as he list, should answer that althowgh he might have two: yet it followeth not that he may have as many as he list) proveth that one may overthrow one unlawful thing by an other/ without teaching either of them lawful: which the D. calling it a jest, answereth not. And yet it is manifest that these he his reasons/ both here and there: which may in deed worthily be jested at: albeit there is no word in the example I brought/ that carrieth the countenance off a jest.  
Unto that I brought of greater necessity of unity in the 
Divis 32. pag. 381.  whole church/ then in one Province: there is nothing answered. here he saith I am greatly deceived, considering that the Pope claimeth his temporalities by Constantine, and his supremacy by Peter. If he listed he might have understanded/ that divers Papists which handle that matter of supremacy/ allege Constantine's donation for his temporalities only. I said not that the Pope maketh his claim only by Constantine. unless it may be showed that Sozimus (who you say claimed the supremacy over all the 
Tom. 1. Concil. Aphri.  church) made his claim not by Peter/ nor by any authority of scripture/ but by the Council off Nice/ confirmed by the Emperor Constantine. Where he saith my supposition touching one Caesar over all the realms which have churches, is but supposed: I marvel that he is ignorant/ that Constantine in the end off his reign/ had the Empire whole in his hands: and that 
d Euseb li. 10. cap. 9  all the churches had rest under him: 
e jero. ad Alges. 11. quaest. Concil. Calcedon Act. 1.  that the Emperor of Rome is called lord of all the earth, Lord of all the world. So that if he would have appointed one bishop over all provinces under him: the bishop of his appointment should have had more than double the jurisdiction/ that the Pope ever had/ when his kingdom was largest: the Pope himself making no further claim/ then over the churches which bore the name off christ/ as Pighius himself confesseth. Whereupon followeth that his answer often alleged/ to put a difference between the archbishop and Pope (the one taketh it to himself, the other hath it of the gift of the Prince) is not worth a straw.  
Where I show that the sufficientest minister, finding enowghe to do in one only congregation: no man can be able 
Diuis. 33. pag. 381.  to weld the government of all the churches in a Province: he answereth/ that lack off will, or skill of some busy Pastors, to dispatch controversies which themselves be authors off, letteth not but that bishops, and archbish. may be sufficient for their charges. I make my argument of all/ and he answereth off some: I of the most fit/ and sufficient pastors/ and he off unfit. If he have any better answer/ we will attend after it: if not/ then the archbishop is here again taken by default. And when either he must needs let his Archbishop fall to the ground/ or else deny that men of greatest gifts have found enough to do in the government of one congregation: being both unwilling to grant the one/ and ashamed to deny the other: it is manifest he crept into this corner. When I show that as the patrons of the Archb. may allege the supply off Archdeacon's, chancellors, etc. in their absence: so the pope's advocates may pretend his deputation of Cardinals, etc. he answereth/ that the office of bishop, and Archbishop may be well excuted so far as it is convenient for the estate of the church: which is that in question.  
Where likewise otherwhere I alleged to this purpose/ 
Divis. 15. Page 466.  that his bishop, and Archbishop having their charge assigned by him the same with a comen pastor, the government only excepted: are thereby bound to pastoral preaching, and ministering of sacraments in all the parishes of their jurisdiction, which is impossible: he staggereth to and fro/ saying the bishop hath to procure his diocese, is much as in him lieth: whereas he is charged/ for laying hand to more than he can gripe: He addeth/ according to the laws of the church: he is afraid to say off God. that they preach where, and when they see it most convenient: by that rule never also/ and no where: if in their sight it be convenient. That it followeth not because the archbishop is bound to minister the word, and Sacraments, therefore he must do it in all the parishes of his province: which followeth well. For the bishop appointed by the holy ghost/ is commanded to feed the whole flock committed 
Act. 20. 28.  unto him/ even with the same feading Saint Paul fed the Ephesians: that is/ with preaching so plentifully/ that all might understand the whole will off God. whereupon followeth/ that his charge is not to feed where/ and when he seeth good: but to feed/ and that to sufficiency all the people of his charge: as he that shall answer for the blood of all which perish/ for want of sufficient instruction by his mouth. And if there be (as he saith) the same duty of the Archbishop towards his charge/ as of the bishop towards his: the same followeth in him. for the charge off his Province being a like committed unto him: by the same reason he is bound to preach in one part/ he is bound in all: if not in all/ in none.  
Now to return: where he saith/ preaching, ordaining ministers, and suppressing herysies is not committed unto the Archdeacon, Chancellor, etc. but such as by rules off the church are permitted them: first/ it is his continual fault/ that he should prove by the law of God/ he proveth by the laws of our church/ yea and by those which remained off the estate which was in popery. I might much better allege the laws of the reformed churches/ which have abolished them. And if he will against the reasons browghte/ oppose authority/ and binding me for my proofs within the compass off the word of God/ wander himself in the broad field of men's laws in question: it is time to shuite up the disputation/ which is maintained by such gross begging. Secondly how will he prove/ that he may set over his charge unto an other: or that it is more lawful/ to commit other things pertaining unto his office/ then those which he reserveth unto himself? Or if he may commit it/ whether he may commit it to tharchdeacon/ so far under degree of the ministry of the Archbishop/ to whom those things belong: or to Chauncelors'/ etc. which have no entrance into the ministery by any ecclesiastical institution. all which are showed unlawful/ in the book of discipline lately set forth. And why may not the Pope commmunicate his charge with his Cardinals/ as well as the archbishop with his suffragans/ & c? If he can show no word why he may do it/ but it be only upon constitution of the church/ that he casteth the overplus of his burden/ upon the neck of his Chancellor/ etc.: by the same reason the universal bishop/ may discharge himself upon his deputies.  
Where he saith/ the universal bishop can not ordain ministers, preach, and suppress heresies so well thorough all the church, as an archbishop in a Province: I have showed that albeit one be granted more impossible than the other/ yet this also is impossible: which is sufficient to prove that in hand. And that is here confessed/ when he is constrained to lay one part off his duty upon his suffragans shoulders/ a other upon his archdeacon's/ etc. All which if he be able to bear himself: why doth he drive them unto others? Let the church at lest be discharged off these bourdens. If not: why hath he taken it upon him? If the Pope deserve condemnation/ for taking more upon him than he is able to do: the Archbishop/ and bishops which bear him company in this point/ can not be separated from it. So this reason brought against the Pope/ standeth fast against them. Moreover as the Pope can not dispatch his matters in the whole church/ so well as an Archbis. in a province: so can neither an Archbis. in his Province/ so well as a bishop in his diocese/ nor he in his diocese/ so well as in a particular congregation/ do the duties of a bishop. So that this answer no more shutteth out the Pope/ then the archbishop/ or lordly bishop. But he saith/ the archbishop may have conference with his archdeacon's, and chancellors, which the Pope can not. He seemeth to have forgotten the conference by letters/ and intelligence which the Pope hath had from time to time/ so particular/ and precise of church's furthest of him/ as if he had been in the bosom 
In his book of the practice off prelates.  of them: which point Master tindal hath well set forth. And would to God there were the tenth part off the fruit of the archbishop's conference unto the good of our church/ which hath been off the Popes to the overthrow thereof. And if conference by mouth be necessary: Rome is not so far but as it hath been/ so it may be had. For besides that stories afford us divers examples/ off churches which have sought the appeasing off their controversies/ from places further removed than Canterbury is from Rome: the marchandrise of unity/ ought to be so precious/ that we should not doubt to sail for it unto the Indes/ and Garamantes. so that if there be such a mystery in the number of one/ to keep unity: the distance of place ought not to hinder this monarchy of the whole church: if for no other cause/ yet for this/ that when the archbishops (of whom hangeth forsooth the church's pea●●) are fallen out: there may be some to accord them. That as the ministers have lord bishops/ and they th'archbishops: so the archbishops might have a Pope/ in reverence off whose authority/ they might easilier be conjoined. And in deed by so much more it is necessary in this respect/ there should be a Pope over the archbishop/ then either archbis. over bishops/ or bishops over ministers: as the rent/ and division in them being chief/ is more hurtful than when it falleth amongst those in lower places. For when schisms and heresies light amongst them/ they spread so much further/ as they with the arm/ and power off their authority/ be able to fling them further than the other. The differences between the Pope and the archbishop, serve but for stuffing. for I excepted in my reply/ the corruptions of doctrine: and you ought to have understanded/ that superiority of one bishop over all in the catholic church/ chosen by consent/ doth not necessarily draw these accidents of contempt of Princes, of making their decrees equal with the laws of god, etc. You should therefore have made your comparison/ between an universal Bishop chosen/ and not breaking in violently/ meinteining the truth/ and not fight against it/ etc.  
Unto that I alleged/ that things passing by voice in 
Diuis. 34. pag. 382.  the church of Alexandria, the distinction of bishop from the rest of the elders in the church there, might come in without Saint Marckes consent, he saith nothing. And in deed if he had obtained that which he would so feign/ that this alteration was made in S. Marckes time: yet he shall never obtain this/ that S. Mark had his hand in that change: unless he will say/ the apostles/ and Apostolical men were authors of all things done in their time/ in every singular congregation. Unto that I said/ the words (from Saint Mark) may be taken rather exclusively, to shut out S. Mark: he answereth/ that none of judgement will grant that: where notwithstanding he that hath any judgement doth easily understand/ that the words have many times that signification; and that they are so here: I am content it be tried by the other reasons propounded. I alleged that S. Marck can not be author off that distinction, because he making those things divers, which the holy Ghost made one, should make the story he written suspected. He answereth/ it is certain these were no otherwise distinguished, than the holy ghost appointed them: which I have showed how shameless it is. Then/ that my collection is ungodly, to imagine so of the gospel written by the evangelist. As if I did not in plain words/ detest all suspicion of the untrwthe off that Gospel: and therefore cast away his false surmise/ which might give occasion thereof. He saith/ thereby appeareth at the lest that it was ancient. I deny not: but it is manifest also/ that there were other corruptions in some places of the church/ as ancient.  
The Answ. (as his custom is) taketh his pleasure of me/ 
Divis. 35. Pag. 383.  because upon the words of Jerome (this custom was at Alexandria) I gather that it was not in other places. As if it were not manifest that Jerome noteth where it began: and if it had beginning at Alexandria/ it was there when it was not in other churches. If it had had further passage at that time; Jerome should have done it injury in concealing it. For it would have made much for the credit of that distinction. Which I alleging in the next divis. the Ans. saith nothing unto. Neither is there any so rude an idiot/ which knoweth not that a notable/ or unwonted thing said off one man/ place/ or time/ is spoken emphatically/ and excludeth all other. But as the D. will not understand a general proposition/ unless it have the sign (all, or every) before it: so he will not understand that any thing is appropriate unto another/ unless it have these words only, alone, etc. And it is clear how intolerable the D. is in his insultations/ seeing Jerome in saying that this custom got ground by little, 
jerom. upon Tite.  and little, declareth the truth of my collection. And where he answereth to that I objected off the confounding oftentimes of priest/ and bishop/ that the bishop is a priest, but not contrariwise: he first answereth not to the argument. For this is not to be confounded/ when off two things one is verified of the other/ but tother can not return/ and be verified of his fellow. Secondly/ his answer is overthrown by his exposition of the place of Cyprian/ which by one priest in the church, understandeth one only bishop in a church. for thereby it followeth/ that either there was but only one priest in the church of Carthage: or else these words bishop and priest, were all one: so that whosoever was one/ was the other. The next division hath not a word to purpose. for authorities are quoted/ to prove that the apostles appointed Bishops in divers churches/ which no man denieth: yea I have namely alleged it before  
Where I show that forsomuch as the Archdeacon is reproved 
Diuis. 37. pag. 384.  of Jerome/ for preferring him sefe before an elder/ because the scripture maketh him inferior unto the elder: by the same reason/ a bishop is to be reproved/ for that he preferreth himself before an elder/ which the scripture maketh his equal: he answereth/ he seeth no sequel, nor likelihood. notwithstanding I trust there is none that hath but his comen sense/ which doth not easily understand/ that it is no more lawful for those which are ordained equals by the scripture/ to lift themselves one above an other: than it is lawful for him that is appointed to be under/ to exalt himself above his superior. for although he be in greater fault/ which being under exalteth himself above/ then he which magnifieth himself above his equal: yet as the ordinance of God cawseth. the one to be unlawful/ so it doth the other. The second answer is/ there may be degrees amongst the ministers, notwithstanding all this, for that Jerome saith there was a degree. This is a very blunt answer. I allege both authority of the scripture/ and Jerome's own reason against the distinction off one bishop from the rest: and he answereth that the distinction is good/ for Jerome so saith. Thirdly/ unless Jerome confess that a bishop and an elder be all one by the scripture: yet he confesseth superiority of a bishop before an other elder. but he saith they are all one by the scripture: and that the bishop is superior by custom. And here he stitchethe in a parenthesis. For after he had alleged Jerome/ confessing that a bishop and an elder are all one by scripture: he addeth (as they be in deed touching the ministery). Thereby desirous (as it seemeth) to abuse his simple reader/ in making him believe that Jerome ment/ that there was by the scripture difference in policy/ between a bishop/ and an other minister: which overthroweth the whole intent of Jerome. For he showeth that this difference (which the D. in other places termeth/ for order, and Policy) between a bishop and an other minister/ was not by the scripture/ but by custom: and began at Alexandria. And seeing Jerome putteth a difference/ between the bishop specified in S. Paul/ and the bishop in his time: if the Answ. say that S. Paul's bishop differed from an other minister/ as touching order/ and policy: I would gladly know of him/ how Jerome's bishop and he which is now/ differeth from an other minister. If he answer (as he hath done before) that they differ not as touching the ministry, but as touching order and policy: them he putteth no difference between S. Paul's bishop and Jerome's/ which is overthrow of all that Jerome saith/ and he hath flatly affirmed: where he maketh Jerome's 
pag. 304.  bishop instituted by the church/ after the apostles times.  
After he blusheth not to say/ that Jerome maketh a difference between S. Paul's bishop/ and another minister. For although he broilethe/ and mingleth all upon a heap/ thinking through confusion of all/ to cause his treachery not to be seen: yet 
a in di. 39 pag. 987.  after he doth plainly utter it/ in answering Chrysostom's words/ the same with Jerome's. But before I come to his reasons whereby he would prove this: I will set down the words of Jerome/ whereby his unhonest dealing may be better perceived. 
b jero. ad evagr.  First he saith/ a ministre that is to say a bishop: and a little after/ the Apostle doth plainly teach; that a bishop and a minister are all one. And in an 
c Upon Tite.  other place/ a Bishop and a minister are the same: again/ 
d Ad Oceanum.  although with the ancient fathers, bishops and elders were all one. Here appeareth manifestly/ that Jerome saith/ a bishop and an other minister be all one with the apostle/ and with the ancient times: that he expoundethe one by the other/ that he turneth one of them upon an other. for as he saith that bishops be ministers: so he affirmeth that ministers be bishops.  
Now of the two reasons/ to prove that Jerome put a difference between a bishop/ and an elder/ this is the first: the one is a name of age, and the other of dignity. which is as much to say/ as they differ in deed/ because they differ in name: and that the ancients/ and elders of the people of Israel/ were not their governors/ because the name aff ancients is a name of age/ and the other of honour: or as if the eldest brother were not the heir/ because the one is a name of age/ the other of honour. Whereas Jerome's purpose is plainly to show/ that unless the names be divers: yet the things are all one. And if there be any dignity shut up in this name bishop/ the ministers are partakers of it: considering that he affirmeth that they be bishops. And if there be any inferiority noted/ by the name off elder: the bishop hath his part in it/ for so much as he is an elder. although the truth is/ that by the word (dignity) Jerome ment nothing but an office: and called the name of bishop/ the name off a dignity/ because 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  the office draweth dignity with it. And because of reverence which the younger give to th'elder/ as also for that ministers and bishops/ were often taken from them which were well grown in age: they were called elders. So that although the name (elder) be the name of age: yet it draweth as much honour after it/ as the name of bishop.  
His other reason is: Jerome saith an elder is contained in a bishop: which he bringeth as a proof to show/ that Deacons are therefore under elders/ because elders and bishops be all one with S. Paul So that he hath not only depraved Jerome's mind: but drawn his words to a clean contrary sense/ of that he meant. for even/ by the same words whereby Jerome would prove they be all one he would prove them divers. And although Jerome's manner of speech here be somewhat hard for that purpose/ considering that things which are all one/ can not properly be said to contain one another: yet both by his plain words in other places/ and manifest suit off his disputation/ he made his meaning so well known/ that no man (unless willing) could stumble at his phrase. And if the D. will thus hunt at syllables: yet this speech of Jerome's is so far from helping him/ that it doth utterly overthrow all his hold he snatcheth at. For where he upon these words in a bishop is contained an elder, would conclude 
In Episc. Presbyter continetur.  that every bishop is a minister, but not every minister a bishop: all men see that in taking Jerome by the lips without considering his meaning/ the contrary off that the D. gathereth/ doth follow: that every minister is a bishop/ but not every bishop a minister. For that which is contained under an other/ is more particular/ and les then that which doth contain: as because the king is contained in the magistrate/ therefore every King is a magistrate/ but not every magistrate a King.  
And albeit it be no marvel/ although he which striveth with the truth/ should be stricken with such a guiddines of spirit/ that he should not be able to discern/ not only between the morning/ and noon days/ but not between noon days and midnight: yet because the smattering in logic which this book maketh show of/ might be so much as not to be so grossly abused: in casting with myself wherefore he should allege this/ in the end it came to my mind/ that by these words (the elder is contained in the bishop) he would have understanded/ that the elder is contained under the bishop's government. If he mean so/ there is as great oversight in his grammar/ as before in logic: ogicke: considering that the tongue (as I suppose will bare no such sense/ certain is that the author will not suffer it. For he assigneth as reason why th'apostle did not speak of the elder/ for that an elder is contained in the bishop: and therefore speaking of th'one/ he needed not to speak of tother. Whereas if he should mean/ that he would not speak of an elder/ because he was in the government of the bishop/ to order as he thowght good it had been a witless saying/ unworthy of Jerome (considering that th'apostle speaketh of a deacon which is under a bishop). Which shall be answer to his like dealing with chrysostom. That Jerome speaketh of an archdeacon in that place/ I have before declared.  
But the D. asketh/ why I went about to deface Jerome, if he 
Divis 38. pag. 385.  neither make for our either bishop, or archbishop? for that there could be no other cause but this. I have showed that I saved him his due/ and convenient honour: the cause why I gave the reader warning/ to try him by the rule off the word of God/ was because he seemeth in some places to allow that distinction of bishop from an elder/ which is divers from the institution of the apostle. After he setteth down his places ofténs before repeated/ and asketh whether I think those ment of every pastor in his parish. I have showed how although upon occasions before recited/ there were not in every congregation at that time a bishop: yet there were in divers. he saith further/ that the pastor in every congregation from the beginning, had his authority over his flock without any such constitution. I grant he had his antoritie/ but not so sovereign/ as after he obtained by this evil custom: considering that he had an equal part of government/ with those joined with him in the administration of the church. And this although it be debated between us: yet the D. frameth his answer as though there were no such thing. For albeit for the most part there were no more pastors then one in a parish: yet there were more elders. And albeit jer. speak of those elders which had the ministery of the word: yet ●●at excludeth not those/ which were only for government.  
Where he saith moreover/ the care of the whole flock was committed unto him I see not how he can conclude thereof/ that the bishop was over a whole diocese such as ours. it might rather be concluded/ that he had charge off one only congregation: considering that although himself alone were thowght able to care for one congregation: yet there is none which would think himself alone/ able to care for a whole dioces. And beside that the churches should be in miserable case/ if none should care for them but every bishop in his diocese: let the D. stretch out the bishop's jurisdiction as far as he can/ yet I have showed out of the emperors letters to the bishop of Alexandria/ that the elders of the same church where he abode/ had ajoint care with him over all. Which is also confirmed by the testimony the Ans. hath alleged out of M. Fox: where not the bishop only/ but his church 
pag. 331.  also/ is said to have the oversight of the precincts which pertained unto him. And Jerome himself/ showing that the elders 
upon Tit. 1. cap.  ought to govern in comen with the bishop, can not be thowght to give unto the bishop the whole care of the church/ as peculiar unto him alone: unless a man will make him contrary to himself. For if they have the government in comen with him: they have the care in comen/ for somuch as there can be no government without care. So that where Jerome saith/ the care off the whole church was committed unto one: it must be understanded so/ as it may be level with his other saying: especially when he saith/ that a bishop differed from his elder, only in ordination.  
Which may appear by the practice off the churches/ about the time wherein Jerome wrote. 
a Concil. Carth. 4. ca 23.  For it was ordained that the bishop should not judge off any matter, but in presence of his clergy: if otherwise, his sentence should be void. Whereby appeareth/ that an other 
b 3. Conc. earth. c. 8  canon permitting the judgement of subdeacons, and other inferior orders unto the bishop alone, must be understanded/ alone without other bishops/ not without other assistance. Which is also clear/ considering that the Council opposeth the decision of their causes/ unto that of elders and deacons: which was to be done by six and three bishops/ beside the bishop of whom they were accused. This government in comen appeareth also/ in that 
c Concil. carth. 3. ca 25.  when one of the clerks would go either to the widows, or virgins, he must have as well the leave off the elder, as off the bishop. Likewise/ that it 
d Concil. carth. 4. ca 37.  was ordained/ that the deacon should acknowledge himself, as well the minister unto the elder, as to the bishop. Here it is also to be observed/ what that ordination was/ wherein only/ the bishop differed from the elder: how poor a thing. For beside that it can not be understanded off the election/ which was comen to him with the people/ and the eldership: it was 
e Concil. earth. 4. ca 2. 3.  decreed that when there was a bishop to be ordained, two bishops should hold the book over his head, one other bishop should pronounce the blessing, and the rest of the bishops with thelders'elders present, should all lay on their hands. So that either there was an other order at Rome/ than is here appointed; or else the bishop's pre-eminence was only to pronounce the blessing/ and hold the book/ the elder having as good right to lay on his hands/ as he. Where he saith/ his place against the Luciferanes, with an other out of his epistle, is more clear: he bringeth no reason at all/ neither are there any words to enforce that. Unless by church one understand dioces, or Province such as ours/ which I have showed to be far from the use of those times: or unless we grant that there can be no schisms/ nor heresies in a particular congregation/ whereof there is to good experience: or that it is impossible there should be many elders in one church/ which I have declared/ and shall (God willing) declare further to be untrue: I say unless these prove an archbishop/ or a lord bishop: there is nothing in those words of Jerome. And yet the D. that he may help his weak reasons with strong words/ must upon these conclude it impossible, to expound Jerome's words otherwise, then of bishop, or archbishop such as ours.  
Where he concludeth upon that the elders chose one amongst them whom they made bishop, as the captain is chosen of the the soldiers, that therefore the bishop was over divers congregations: there is no likelihood of reason. And where to give it some/ he threapeth two things at my hand/ the one that this word elder, signifieth only a minister off the word, tother that every minister of the word had his several flock: he doth but dally. For he knoweth well that I hold that the word elder/ reacheth to such as govern only: and that there were in divers congregations more than one/ which preached the word of God. Where he saith/ those which I call obscure villages, were little cities, such as with us, Ely, or Peterborowgh: I leave it to the reader to judge/ how much I have therein squared from Erasmus 
Frigida oppidula / who calleth them peevish little Towns. Where he saith/ he calleth them base cities: I am content the reader take which he liketh best. For both in proper speech can not be true: for to call a town/ and a little town/ and a peevish little town/ a city: is not for any thing I know/ wonted. Howbeit I will not here strive: it is sufficient that I have showed/ that there were bishops in other places which were no cities. And even in this the D. letteth fall the Pope's decree/ which he defendeth in an other place: which forbiddeth as well to place bishops in base/ and small cities, as in uplandish towns.  
And albeit the D. be not able by these words of Jerome/ nor by any other which he hath brought/ to prove that the bishop had any further reach/ then unto one only church: yet (forsomuch as it is not here question off the victory/ but off trwth: nor what the Ans. is able to prove/ but what may be proved) I will not deny but in Jerome's times/ the bishops upon occasions before of me alleged/ had enlarged their bounds in such sort/ that there were certain congregations which belonged to their oversight/ and whereof they were called bishops. But I appeal first to the institution of God/ and use of the purer times after the Apostles: and then I answer/ that a diocese was not the twentieth part of that which they have now. As appeareth by that alleged before out of the Counsels/ and by that Jerome saith/ that their elders under them governed in comen with them: which they could not have done unless they being hard by/ had made one body with them. For neither could the bishop do any thing in his congregation/ without the elders: nor they in theirs/ without him/ but they made one Senate amongst them. The practice whereof is yet to be seen in certain reformed churches▪ where the elders off certain small parishes round about/ make one body of Senate with the elders of the principal town/ meeting together once at the lest every week. Saving that they have altogether abolished that evil custom/ which wrong the name of bishop from all the rest unto one/ and granted the ordination to him alone: there being one amongst them which hath only this above the rest/ when they assemble together to propound matters/ gather the voices/ giveth exhortations/ and that also for a time/ and not during his ministery. I have showed that the argument/ wherewith the Ans. would off a bishop conclude an archbishop/ and off one over a diocese one over a whole Province is too bad: and it is not here to be repeated. This place requireth to show/ that albeit the Metropolitan was now received in the East parts: yet either he was not in the most parts off the west/ where jerom was: or Jerome did not acknowledge him. Wherein I will first propound my arguments/ and after answer to his objections.  
And first even with the self same places he would prove th'archbishop/ is he overturned: as of that against the Lucifer. For if it be certain (which I have showed) that Jerome speaketh off the authority that every bishop hath in his precinct/ and plain by Jerome's words/ that the authority he speaketh off there/ is such as not only hath no superior/ but no mate: it must follow/ that above the bishop which Jerome propoundeth/ there can be no archbishop. Again where he affirmeth that the bishop, 
ad evag.  elder and deacon under the gospel are in the same place, that Aron his sons, and the Levites were under the law: it may be concluded that forasmuch as every bishop in his charge/ hath the same authority Aaron had/ and it is certain that there was no ecclesiastical authority over Aaron: therefore by Jerome there ought to be none above the bishop in every church. Moreover 
ibid.  upon that he saith/ that all bishops succeed unto the apostles/ it may be reasoned/ forsomuch as the bishops have the places off the apostles in their several churches/ and it certain that the apostles had no dominion one over an other/ but equal authority▪ as both hath been/ and shall be (God willing further showed): that bishops ought not to have any bishop to whom they ought to be subject. 
jerom ad Rusticum monachum.   
Beside this/ speaking of the orders in the church in his times/ he reckenethe up deacons, archdeacon's, elders, archelders, and bishops. If there had been any Archbishops where hem was/ or he had allowed of any: there could never have been so fit a place to have spoken of him/ considering that his purpose was/ to show those degrees which were. Seeing therefore he maketh no mention of him: it is apparent that there was none/ or that he allowed of none. Moreover he putteth this difference between 
Tom. 2. ad Marcell. adversus Montanistas.  the Montanistes/ and the Catholics: that Catholics had their bishops as the successors of th'apostles, giving unto them the first place: but the montaniste heretics had in the first and chiefest place patriarchs, in the second certain which they called Cenones, so that the Bishop with them/ occupied but the third. Now if the bishop was the highest degree in the catholic church/ and if to have a patriarch (which the D. saith is all one with a Metropolitan, and Archbishop) over the bishop/ was in Jerome's judgement worthy of this reproach: I leave it to the reader's judgement/ what was Jerome's opinion of the office of an Archbishop: and whether the same blot which he marked in the rout of Montanistes/ be not in our church/ where there is above the bishop both a patriarch of England/ and a patriarch off all England. But because the D. will not suffer himself to be bound with any cords but of authority: I will annex his authority/ off whom he would seem to have borrowed the greatest pillar of the Archbishop. Musculus therefore after he had alleged the sentence of Jerome to evagr. of equality of the Bishop of Rome/ and Eugubium/ etc. concludeth thus: Jerome 
Muscul. de potestate ministror.  when he written that, did not think off the power of the patriarchs, metropolitans, and primacy of the bishop of Rome: but esteemed that unto every bishop, did belong the same care, and power in his own church.  
Now to the Ans. shifts. The first is out of Jerome to Rusticus/ that every ecclesiastical order is subject unto her governors: whereof I would gladly know what he concludeth. If an Archbishop: there is no appearance. And the Ans. being so bountiful in translating/ hath here cut off the sentence in the m●ddle: for what purpose/ let other judge. my answer is therefore/ that he must prove by Jerome that there was an archbishop/ or that Jerome allowed off one: before the sentence of Jerome can profit the Archbishop. His second is/ that the testimony of Jerome touching the equality of the bishops, doth not hurt the authority of the Archbishop: considering that it is not denied but that every bishop, and minister are equal as touching the ministery, but not in order, and policy. which distinction although I have confuted/ and showed 
In 8. Tra. c. 1. di. 21.  also immediately before/ that it is clean against the mind of Jerome: yet here it is to be observed/ that as his argument out of the place against the Luciferanes for the Archbishop/ is borrowed of the Papists: so this shift is hardings/ whereby he would avoid the force off the bishop's answer. Harding saith that touching honour, dignity, and power of bishoply order and office, and off pristhood, as good, and as great a bishop in 
Apol. 2: part. ca 3. diuis. 5.  that respect is the one, as the other: and the bishops of these little towns, have as great a merit in regard off any their virtues, and as great power concerning the order of priesthood as the bishop of Rome, etc. Yet touching power and authority of regiment, the patriarchs of Constantinople, etc. be above the bishops of other dioceses. The bishop to this shift answereth with Erasmus/ who saith that Jerome seemeth to match all bishops together, as if they were all equally the Apostells 
In his scholia upon that epistle.  successors. And further allegeth an other place of Erasmus: where out of that place of Jerome he affirmeth plainly/ that the bishop of Rome is above other bishops, only by riches. If by riches only: than not by government/ as Harding and the Ans. affirm. And where Harding under this word merit/ would hide himself as doth the Ans. the bishop answereth/ by merit is ment withowt all question pre-eminence: which he D. allegeth/ is used of Harding against the bishop: so it is Latomus (an other Papists) shift against Bucer. unto whom Bucer answereth: the Bishops were in every respect at the first, equal one with an other: as is before alleged.  
And where otherwhere he pretendeth allowance of this Popish 
Diuis. 42. pag 390.  distinction/ by the godly writers: the truth is nothing so. For as touching Caluin/ he hath openly depraved him. He only showeth upon 2. Cor. 10. vers. 8. that there are divers degrees of ministers/ and that one is above an other/ as an apostle above a pastor/ which is confessed: but that one pastor is above an other/ which is the question/ he hath not a word. That out of Heza/ is only a recital what was done/ not what he allowed: considering that (as hath been showed) he utterly condemneth those offices of Lord bishop/ Archbish/ etc. beside that in showing that they came in process of time after the Apostles: he hangeth the D. cause on the hedge which would have this distinction in the time of the Apostles. Neither hath Hemingius this distinction/ where the D. supposeth/ he only saith that they are equal as touching 
pag. 420.  spiritual regiment. What they be in external/ he referreth to another place: which when the D. bringeth/ he shall have answer. And whensoever it cometh I think it will overthrow his before: that there are some ministries of the word and Sacraments only, some for government also. for unless he allow a government unto him he calleth bishop/ larger then to an other minister: yet (I think) he can not show that he shutteth out tother out of the external government. Ad also/ that I have showed/ that even when these smokey offices came first in/ neither the Doctor/ nor pastor were severed from government of their several congregation. For that wherein the metropolitan than exceeded the pastor/ was a pre-eminence or honour without authority: so that even then/ it was an evil distinction/ off certain ministers off the word and sacraments only, and certain which did govern.  
His third answer is out of the B. of Salisbury: which affirmeth that there were archbishops in Jerome's time. But it is to observed/ that that assertion of the bishop/ proceeded off mistaking Jerome/ and some oversight. Which is clear by that in 
4. Artic 15. divis  an other place/ the bishop avoucheth out of Jerome ●o Nepotian/ archbishop's: where there is no mention of Archbishop in any sort. And although the place which the bishop vouchethe/ be in the Epistle unto Rusticus: yet there is no mention off an Archbishop/ as I have before declared. This assertion therefore can not help the D. which hath no better ground. His last proof is Erasmus/ who saith that metropolitans have some 
upon jer. to evag.  dignity above other bishops: an other of hardings bucklers against the bishop in the same place. Where it is manifest/ that Erasmus kept his old custom/ off carrying fire in the one hand/ and water to quench it in the other: and tempered the truth with some levaine of the corruption of those times/ thereby to procure safety unto him/ and to his books: whilst those which could not abide to look upon the truth barefaced/ might at the least bear it being muffled If the Ans. will make his owtecries/ that I discredit the author when I can not answer them: beside that I discredit not more than he/ I refer me unto the conscience of all men/ whether it be true which I have said. And yet do I not say the tenth part/ off that which I could allege written of him/ by men off excellent learning/ and zeal.  
But let it be considered/ how both corruptly contrary to the mind of Jerome/ and unconstantly contrary to that himself hath written off this place/ he hath blinded these together. For if it be true that he hath said/ that Jerome's meaning is/ that the bishop of Rome differeth from other bishops only in riches: than it is manifest that in authority/ he differeth not from the bishop of Eugubium/ a small town in the same province. And where he saith/ that Jerome in making the bishop of a base city equal with the rest, referreth that to the deacons which in some places were preferred before the elders: who seeth not but that speaking against the truth/ he was so amazed/ that words coming from him/ reason stickethe yet in his pen. For what reason is there/ that Jerome should therefore say the bishop of Eugubium was equal unto the Bishop of Rome, notwithstanding the bishop of Rome were his superior, because the deacon was preferred in Rome before the elder? What give is here to join these together? or what cause was there that Jerome should speak basely off the metropolitans authority over the bishop/ because the deacon was preferred before the elder? is there any reason that because the deacon did injury unto the elder: therefore Jerome should speak sparingly of the metropolitan/ ●nd do him injury also? moreover if this was the occasion why he spoke so of a bishop/ because certain deacons were preferred before the elders: considering that that custom was only at Rome (as Jerome himself declareth) why should he make the bishop of Tanais/ a small town in Egypte/ equal with the bishop of Alexandria/ the metropolitan city there? and the bishop Rhegium/ equal with the bishop of Constantinople? For seeing that mischief of the preferment of Deacons before the elders/ was not in other places then in Rome there was no cause why he should speak thus of them/ if that had been the cause which Erasmus allegeth?  
Where he addeth/ when Jerome saith the bishops and elders were equal, that is to be understanded, that the elder was equal with the bishop in that they were both preferred unto the deacon: I marvel the Ans. is not ashamed to allege that saying/ without all colour of truth. For I have alleged divers other places out of Jerome where he speaking absolutely/ without respect of any deacon/ affirmeth the bishop and elder all one in the beginning. And what a ridiculous disputation doth he make Jerome to hold? For it is all one/ as if a man after long discourse to prove Londen and York equal: in the end should conclude/ that York were equal with London/ because they be both greater than Nuington. Now let the reader judge/ what unworthy outcries the D. useth/ both before and after/ 
pag. 390.  off guilful dealing, and shifting the place of Jerome, thereby to drown the voice of the truth: and whether I have interpreted it according to his natural meaning/ and as other godly/ and learned have done: and whether he contrarily/ to maintain his first saying/ hath used shifts partly popish/ overthrowing the answers off those which have travailed against popery/ aswell as mine: partly fond/ and childish/ which he would bear out with 
pag. 390. Diuis. 39 etc. p. 387. etc. In tract. 3. ● 4.  Erasmus authority/ without any weight of reason. Likewise how he after dallieth in his long translation/ and repetition of Jerome/ to no purpose. That a doctor differeth from a pastor/ hath been showed, that he is inferior unto him appeareth/ not only because the Apostle placeth him after/ where he doth most exactly set down the order off preaching ministers: but also that 
Ephes. 4. 11.  the gifts required for that office/ are (as hath been showed) less. whereunto may be added the practice off the elder churches/ which esteemed the doctor always under him whom they called bishop or Pastor. That the elder which governeth only is inferior to the Doctor: appeareth both in that his gifts be fewer/ and that 
a Timot▪ 5. 17.  the apostle giveth more honour to him/ then to the elder. That Deacons are under those elders: for that their charge is to 
b Act. 6. 2.  serve the tables only/ and therefore but a part off the church/ where the elders government is over the whole. Likewise for that the deacons charge/ being in things pertaining to the nourishment of the body: must give place to that off the elders/ whose 
c Heb. 13. 17.  watch is over the souls. All which (the ministry of the Doctor only excepted/ which is shut up commonly in the bishop) is confirmed by continual practice off the church: which upon all occasions off speaking off this ministery/ placeth the bishop before the elder/ and the elder before the deacon. and precisely the foresaid 
d ad Philadelph.  Ignarius/ showeth that the deacon is under the elder/ th'elder under the bishop: where that th'elder which only governeth and not only he which teacheth is understanded (at which hole the D. would creep out) shall be after in proper place declared. So appeareth that order in the ministry/ and diversity of degrees are defined off by the word of God: and that even in the Ecclesiastical ministry/ there is inequality although all pastors be equal amongst themselves: and withal that order standeth without the archbishop/ or any other devised ministry.  
Chrysost. brought by me/ is shamefully corrupted/ and the corruption opened in the former divis. his allegations (there ought to be rulers in the church, and order to punish faults) so erksomly repeated/ are Idle: it being confessed/ and withal showed/ that there is none of those but are done without his either bishop/ or Archbishop. where having no reason he falleth to exhortation/ that I would not stand in my conceit, but think the government of his bishop better than that laid forth by us: if he can compound with the word of God/ with the reformed churches Apostolical/ and present/ with the purest writers old and new: I with my conceits (as he speeaketh) will be ready to hold th'archbishops stirup. That he affirmeth the form of government wherein one is above all, necessary in our comen wealth: although I have showed that I greatly allow of it/ yet that it is necessary/ and that the Prince/ and Parliament can 
Divis. 5. Pag. 181.  not upon occasion altar it/ especially without breach of the law of God/ which only maketh the necessity we speak of/ is an untrwth/ apparent to all that have ever tasted off holy/ or human letters. And although it seemeth he hath covenanted with himself/ to speak all he supposeth may please: yet his knowledge answering not his w●ll/ he is found here to abridge the authority of the civil power/ which he thowght to have stretched out/ and to bind it to that which the lord left at the liberty thereof.  
Where he saith/ the external government of the church under a Christian magistrate, must be according to the kind and form of government used in the common wealth: it partly hath/ and further (God willing) shall appear/ that the government of the church debated is certain by the word of God/ and unchangeable. As for his bolt so soon shot/ and with so small draft of reason: it is broken with the wind off his own mouth. For where he maketh the external government through out his whole book/ at the pleasure of the Prince/ which is his principal hold: here he teacheth that it is not in the prince's power unless she will either put of/ or divide her crown with others/ to put down the archbishop. for the external government of the church (saith he) must be according to the kind, and form of government of the common wealth. Whereby also followeth/ that where the popular estate/ or the rule of the best beareth sway; they can not although they would/ have an archbishop. yea hereupon followeth/ that either the Canterbury/ or York archbishop must lose his head. For it is concluded off his high divinity/ that as there is but one prince in the whole Realm: so there must be but one Archbishop. His reason (the Prince can not else be supreme governor of all estates, and causes ecclesiastical:) to say no more/ is senseless/ and hath no knot with that whereunto it belongeth. As if when Room had both emperors/ and consuls/ the Emperor could not be chief governor of the consuls/ because the Consuls were equal amongst themselves. I confessed it unconvenient, that there should be one Caesar over the world/ but that it may be: he allegeth Caluin that it is most absurd: to what purpose? what contrariety is here? it is enough for me that there may be/ and that lawfully/ a Prince of larger extent of dominion/ then the archbishop of his archbishopric/ although the prince would grant it him: which utterly overthroweth his cause/ and this being alleged of me afterward/ is clean passed by. For his defence consisteth in this/ that the Pope's 
Diuis. 14. pag. 465.  wideness of jurisdiction over churches/ is unlawful/ because he hath it not of the gift of Princes: and in this that the external government of the church/ must be according to the form/ and kind of government in the comen wealth. Which is also manifestly confuted there/ whence he hath borrowed this temony. 
Instit. 4. l. 6. cap. 9 sect.  For there he addeth that although it were granted/ that there might be one Caesar over all the world: yet it followeth not that there may be one bishop over all the churches. which notwithstanding must needs follow/ if the external government of the church/ must be according to that form/ and kind of government used in the comen wealth. ᵃ For the distinction 
Divis 42. pag 390.  which supposeth certain ministers of the word/ and Sacraments only/ and certain to have together with the administration of them/ the government also: I refer the reader to that 
b Diuis. 25. etc. pag. 313. etc. Divis. 38. Pag. 385.  before written. his vain cavil that I desire to be uncontrolled of any but of God, is 
c Diuis. 11. pag. 62.  answered.  

d Divi. 43. pag. 391.  The D. accuseth me off falsehood, for that I charge him with citing Augustine, and Crysostome at large. touching Augustine: that he was so alleged appeareth/ first pag. 583. and both he/ and Chrysostom pag. 296. Where he saith he used that large quotation, only once in Muscul. Cyril. and M. Fox: he could hardly do it oftener in the two last/ considering that as I remember/ he allegeth them once only. but touching Muscul. beside the place I charge him with/ he left his adversary twice to his wide works. Where he remembreth not that he sendeth to any other writers, but with places quoted 
pag. 580.  as particularly as he could: his memory which is so miraculous at other times/ is here but miserable. To help it/ beside this place of 
pag. 175. pag. 243.  Cal. he sendeth to his Institutes/ without any further restreinte as appeareth pag. 132. again pag. 74. in his former book: for he hath quoted it in this later. Likewise that Damasus calleth Stephen Archdeacon/ without any direction pag. 344. Also allegeth Gratian/ Polidore/ Volateran/ without any restreinte 589. pa. I omit that he sendeth towards th'end of his book/ to the large field off godly interpreters: that divers times he giveth the book only/ where he might give the chap. the chap. only where he might give the section: all which are contrary to that he setteth down. Whereby may appear what a hard mouth he hath/ and how I speak sparingly of this kind of allegation of his.  
Charged here by his fond allegation of Cal. Institut. he answereth/ I knew there were sundry editions. I did so: but whether it be absurd that he should leave both the best/ and most usual to take that which is worse/ and in the hands of few (unless he ment to play under the board/ that men should not understand) I leave to the reader's judgement. His reason (he had noted it, laboured it, and was acquainted with it) is very simple. For is it meet that because he had made his book a little heavier with ink/ he should be wedded so to it/ as to neglect the comen commodity? how he is acquainted with it I know not: but I trust it hath/ and shall appear/ that there is no more friendship between him and his book in these matters/ then between light and darkness. But it is folly to reason with him: for he addeth Doctorlike/ that he both hath, and will so use it still. Howbeit how cometh it to pass/ that even in his former book he hath alleged the later edition? belike either that was some tributary allegation: or else the latter 
pag. 606.  was better to him there then his noted one. How unjustly he chargeth me with uncertain direction/ in either all/ or the most of these he setteth down: I leave to be judged off that I have said in that behalf. The rest of this divis. with the next/ is nothing but bore/ and bold affirmations/ reproaches/ and repetitions. The next to it hath nothing but trifling and unlearned questions/ 
b diuis. 4. pag. 173. Diuis. 12. pag. 364.  before answered. That set down off the inconvenience of many speaking together/ according to the proverb (many may sing but not speak at once) is not (as he saith) needles, but made way to the necessity of having one which otherwise equal/ should have some pre-eminence in that action. The next hath nothing but railing words/ with repetition of repetitions/ and that beside the matter: considering that the cautions I put off the moderator in the assembly of ministers/ I put not as always observed off the D. Bishop's/ and Archbishop's/ but as those which ought to be. In ask scripture for proof, he dallieth: seeking for that he would not found/ as the scholar the rod he must be beaten with.  
The cock/ a glorious and proud bird/ which will not suffer 
Diuis. 47 pag. 393. Cicer. de divinat. Pliny.  his victory to be hidden/ but proclaimeth it forthwith by crowing: yet if he be overcome hideth himself. Wherein he showeth a great deal more modesty than the D. which although he have never a spur of argument either to defend himself/ or to offend his adversary: yet croweth as high/ as if the mastery were in his hand. But let it go/ let us see his fight. To that I alledgrd of Peter/ chosen by the other apostles to moderate the two first actions/ 
Act. 1. 15. Act. 2. 14.  notwithstanding it be not set down: he answereth/ it is wicked to ground th'alteration of the archbishop, and our bishop's government, continued long, and practised in the best times of the church, without, yea contrary to the ground of scripture. The long continuance/ unless they have salt of the word of God to preserve them/ argueth they be rotten/ and such as cast an evil savour. That they were not in the best times of the church/ hath before appeared: whether it have ground out of the word/ that Peter was chosen by the apostles/ unless it be not expressed: it may partly appear by that disputation upon 20 Math. for if all the apostles were left of our Saviour Christ in equal authority▪ either Peter took that upon him without calling/ or else he received it off the apostles. But the first is confessed untrue: therefore it hath ground of the word of God/ that Saint Peter was chosen off the apostles unto the presidentship in those actions. And as it hath been showed out of S. Matthew 20. that none of them was higher than other: so of S. Peter it appeareth particularly/ in that he/ and S. john were sent by the college of the apostles: 
Act. 8. 14  whereas if he had been made chief by our Saviour/ and that from the ascension unto his dying day: it had not been lawful for the apostles by making him their Ambassador/ to have made him inferior to the resedew. I know what the Papists answer in this point: but the D. bank being discovered/ I think he will change his creditors.  
Where he saith/ it is contrary to scripture because S. Peter 2. Act. so suddenly defended the apostles against the accusation of drunkenness, as he could not tarry for their voices: it is ridiculous. For I would know first/ what testimony of scripture he hath/ to prove it done so suddenly. Then/ who is so senseless as not to understand/ that the eleven standing with him/ could not in a trice either by voice/ or finger lifted up/ caste that charge off speaking then/ upon Peter? so that unless he did as it were take the jews words out of their mouth: no time could want for that matter. He saith further/ Act. the 1, and 15. considered, it shall appear always Peter's office to speak first, and rule the action: and that he was at no time chosen thereto by voices, much less at every particular meeting: which first is a gross petition off that in question. Then if we were not able to show by the word/ that our S. Christ did not apoincte Peter chief of the rest: yet by what either sentence/ or word out of the scripture is he able to show/ that he was appointed governor by him over all the rest/ during his life? Thirdly/ to leave Acts 15. disorderly alleged/ which is to be handled in the very next division: let him show us how he can prove/ that S. Peter was chief in that action of prayer/ where it is said that all the Apostles lifted up their voice. likewise in the election of the deacons: where the calling together 
Act. 4. 24  of the disciples/ the exhortation unto them/ the prayer for the Deacons chosen/ the laying on of hands is as indifferently 
Act. 6. 2. 3 4. 6.  given to all the rest/ as to Peter. All know that one conceived the prayer in the name off the rest/ that one was precedent in the election. But that that was Peter more than either john/ or james/ or any the rest: can not be showed by one title of scripture: yet our D. doth assure us/ and (as he saith) out of the scripture/ that Peter was the lodesman.  
Where I show/ that to suppose Peter not chosen by the apostles/ to take upon him the government/ is to do him injury: he answereth/ he was appointed unto it off God, and lawfully. As if to be appointed of God/ and lawfully/ could not stand with the apostles choosing of him: or their election were not the election of God. For if he mean he was chosen to it by Christ immediately: it is that in question/ whereof he bringeth not a letter of proof. But/ this judgement offmine hath no ground of scripture, or either learned, or ancient authority. What ground off scripture I have/ let the reader judge off that already/ and to be alleged in the next divis. For authority: I have showed that Musculus (whom he hath made his pillar in 
Pag. 65,  this behalf) affirming that Peter was in many places the chief, is against him which saith/ he was always chief: and for me/ as giving thereby to understand/ that this cheiftie varied/ and was sometimes put upon other. Which is also confirmed by Caluin: 
Insti. lib. 4 ca 6. 5. sect.  who in saying/ the apostles gave this unto Peter for the most part, that he should speak first: confirmeth both that he had his pre-eminence of the apostles/ and that he had it not always. Secondly/ I have here alleged the Scoliaste/ that all was done by comen consent. Whereto he answereth/ he saith not Peter was at every assembly chosen chief: which is vain. For if all were done with consent: then Peter's forespeaking/ a part of that which was done/ was likewise. What will he say to Gratian/ his good expounder? which in this cause is more favourable than the Papists he hath followed/ which fetch Peter's cheifdome from our Sau. Christ: for he confesseth/ that Peter was chosen by the Apostles. Where out of the scoliaste I showed/ that this 
Distin. 21.  presidentship of Peter was not done imperiously, with dominion, or power: he answereth no lawful jurisdiction, not of the king himself, is so. Which smelleth off Anabaptistry/ and is before confuted. For if the word (imperiously) which I used/ be taken often in evil part: yet may not I beseech you a Prince/ do princelike? which is the word the Scoliast useth. may not the higher power do things with power? both which the Scoliaste denieth to have been done of Peter. But there is in superiority humility. If you mean that Princes must be humbly minded/ I grant: but if you mean that humility in Princes/ will not suffer to command Princelike/ in things lawful: I deny it.  
He addeth/ that in rule and authority (meaning civil) there is servitude. If he mean to the lord/ I grant: and then it is nothing to the purpose. If that Kings are servants unto their people's/ 
1. cha. off this Tra.  which only can have place here: I deny it/ for the cause before assigned. Where we see again how the D. as if he led Princes in a string/ maketh them to bear up my Lord Archbishop's train. For seeing he seeth it denied him to rule princelike/ or with power: for shift off answer he wresteth the sceptre out of their hand/ saying the king himself may not do so. if the Scoliast had said that Peter did nothing tyrannically/ nothing with oppression/ which two are aswell denied unto Princes/ as to bishops: then the D. answer would have served. But when he saith/ he did nothing 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  princelike, nothing by power: it is manifest he taught/ that the rule lawful in Princes over their subjects/ was not meet for Peter over the other apostles. Where he addeth/ the Scoliaste saith Peter rose, etc. as one that had received the Presidentship of the apostles: to let pass his translation/ which in steed of disciples understanded 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  of all the church/ hath put Apostles which was peculiar then to the 11. he doth but daily. For I deny not that Peter had received it: but that he had it given off our Sau. Christ immediately/ or during his life (both which are in controversy:) there is not a word. Where in the entrance off this divis. he saith/ Peter was in all such assemblies the chief, and in an other place/ he was the chief in every matter: and for proof saith/ the most of the old ecclesasticall writers/ in that respect count him chief of the apostles: it had 
pag. 68  been good he had showed at the least one. I confess that there are old writers which call him so: but that they do it in that respect, I deny. for the cheifty they give him over the rest/ was for his singular zeal/ and other gifts: not as he saith for that he had authority over them.  
For proof whereof I will propound him/ first that 
a jerom. adverse. Pelag.  Peter was Prince of the apostles/ as Plato was of the Philosophers: likewise that he 
b Bulling. Dec. 5. se.  was Prince of the apostles/ as Moses/ Helias/ David/ Isay off the Prophets. Now if Plato were ruler/ or had the commandment of other Philosophers/ or if Moses of the Prophets that came after his death: then Peter also might have the same over the apostles, but if they be therefore so called/ because they excelled the rest in gifts: than it is clear/ that these fathers esteemed not Peter chief/ for any power or autorny over the rest. An other saith/ 
a Cypr. de symplici. praelat.  Peter was that the rest of the apostles were, off like not office only/ but honour and power: directly contrary to D. 
b pag. 320.  where he preferreth Peter in honour: and contrary to that he both here/ and pag. 68 although not in the same in words/ yet indeed doth affirm. Thirdly/ it is to be noted/ that here the D. hand is again with Harding against 
c Artic. 4. diuis. 31.  the bishop: to whom alleging that Peter had power over the rest of the apostles/ the bishop answereth: Peter was chief of the apostles as Aristippus is called chief of Philosophers: that is, the first, or best man of the company: where he denieth that S. Peter was either lord, or Prince, or had power, or was governor over the rest of th'apostles. He addeth/ from this opinion that Peter in all such assemblies and in all matters moderated the rest, was chief, and spoke first, the late writers descent not. If he mean the 
Instit. 4. l. 6. ca se 5. Bullin. 5. dec. 3. ser. Bez. upon 1. Act. Gualt. upon. 1 Act.  Papists/ I grant: if the Catholic/ he bringeth not/ nor (as I think) can bring so much as one/ which saith so. Here he hath the bishop against him/ to whom may be added Caluin/ Bullinger/ Beza/ Gualther/ with others.  
Where I show that james ruled the action Act. 15. and not Peter, considering that he pronounced the sentence whereunto the rest agreed: he saith/ first that Peter spoke before the rest, which is untrue, for there was great disputation of both sides before 
d Diu. 48. pag 395. verse 7.  Peter spoke▪ therefore it must needs be/ that the cause was propounded by some before. And so it is frivolous he allegeth out of Caluin/ to prove Peter prolocutor, for that he stood upon this especially that he might declare thestate of the question. as if the apostles Synod were so confused/ that a great part of it was spent/ or ever the company were informed of the state of the question. Whereas Caluin meaneth/ that S. Peter confirmed pithily/ the truth in that question: and not that he travailed to show wherein the question consisted/ as appeareth by Peter's whole oration. So that Saint Peter's oration is first set down/ not for that he spoke first: but for that he was the first amongst the apostles/ and Elders/ which S. Luke thowght good to commit to writing. It is also childish that Peter was moderator, because he spoke after there was great disputation: as if every one which cometh between two parties striving to draw them to concord/ hath authority over them: considering that there is not a word in Peter's oration/ which giveth the least ynckling off such authority. beside that to help himself/ he shamefully slandereth 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  the apostles Synod/ attributing unto it a tumult, and bitter contention: where S. Luke saith only great disputation, which may well be without both. Whether it be custom of Synods for the moderator to speak last/ and so to ponounce the sentence gathered upon the former voices: I leave it to the judgement of the reader/ referring him also to that the bishop writeth in this behalf: who proveth (against Harding/ which will have Peter 
Defence of the Apol. 6. part cap. 4. divis. 2. Hierar. 3. li. ca 10. In 3. Tra.  chief) that james was chief, because he gave the definitive sentence. Whereby also appeareth that this came either from Pigghius/ or Harding/ or from some such popish fen.  
After admitting james Moderator/ he faith being then bishop by the Scoliastes judgement, it was not unmeet he should be moderator within his charge. I have showed that an Apostle can not be changed into a bishop: and if he could/ yet it was unmeet that S Peter should lief his right/ whereto (he saith) he was ordained off God, to use from thascension unto his dying day Therefore it is against him directly: but how against me, he neither doth/ nor can show. Beside/ it is absurd that an Apostle should give place unto a bishop/ because the bishop is in his charge: considering that an Apostle is in his charge/ in what church soever he come/ and that as an Apostle: to whom the bishop (unless he were by consent chosen to govern the synod) ought to give place. And if it be true that it is meet the bishop of the place where the synod is holden, should govern the synod: why hath he made this before a necessary cause of 
In 12. diu. pag. 364.  having an archbishop/ to govern Synods? The other place off the Acts/ maketh for this matter. For if james assembled the lders/ and ruled that meeting wherein it was determined what S. Paul should do/ himself being present/ which was (as shall appear) in nothing inferior unto Peter): he might by the same right moderate the assembly in Peter's presence. Where I show that 
Divis. 49. Pag. 396.  this is the superiority which is amongst bishops/ and ministers: he answereth/ it is so, but not all. But out of the scripture (whereof the question is here) he neither doth/ nor can show other superiority: so that here his cause falleth flat.  
Where I alleged Master Caluin/ that one of the Apostles 
Diuis. 50. pag. 396.  indefinitely, not any one singular person, had the moderation of the rest: he answereth out of him/ that it would not be absurd if we confess, that the apostles gave pre-eminence unto Peter. Which is but dalliance. For he affirmeth simply/ that 
a Calu. Epist. ad Reg. Polo. pa. 140  our Saviour Christ meant nothing less, then to make Peter chief of the rest of the apostles. 
b Instit. li. 4 6. cap. sect. 7.  Here Having proved that Peter was nothing else, but one of the twelve, that he was equal unto them, their fellow not their lord, that they had as much power over him, as he over them: he disputeth that if it were granted which the Papists require/ off Peter's being Prince of the Apostles (which he utterly denieth): yet it followeth not which they would conclude/ off a Pope. Likewise he daliethe/ in showing what authority the Consul of Rome, and masters of Colleges have: adding that th'archbishop is content with less. Where Caluin compareth the moderator in the ministers meeting/ with the consulship not in all points/ but only in this/ that he should propound the matters/ etc. as before. Which appeareth in an other 
in divi. 38 pag. 385. 4 li. 4. ca 2. sect.  place/ and even in this very place when he saith/ it is meet that althowghe they be all off equal power, yet there should be one as it were moderator. And therefore if you would have made your archbishops according to Caluins' measure. he ought to have no more pre-eminence before the simplest pastor/ then the Consul which spoke/ had before his fellow Consul which held his peace. Where he saith/ the prolocutor chosen for the inferior sort of clergy, yet the Archbishop retaineth still his office: it showeth that he is now but an idol/ having put over the duty to other/ for which he is supposed to have been so necessary. But it is manifest that the Prolocutor in the synod hath all that pre-eminence/ which Peter had above the other apostles: and therefore which one pastor ought to have above an other/ which is that I brought it for. The next I answer not.  
Where I show his vain argument/ that one bishop should be above an other, because Paul an APostle was above Timothe an Evangelist: 
Diuis. 52. pag 373.  he saith that it houldethe, because they differ not in the administering of the the word, and sacraments, but in government. Which is untrue: for they differed in both alike. For as they differed from the Apostles/ in that they governed those only churches over which they were set/ where the Apostles government stretched unto all churches: so they could not administer the word and sacraments/ but where they were appointed/ where the Apostles might do it in all places. But for further confutation of this distinction/ I 
In Divi. 27. p 314.  refer me to that before. Where I show his argument all one with this: my Lord mayor is above the Sheriffs, therefore one sheriff is above an other: he saith I should have concluded that because my Lord Mayor hath rule over the citizen's, therefore the apostles superiority over an inferior degree of ministery, proveth that one in the same degree of ministery may rule over an other: Which is to ridiculous. For if it were (as it is not) a good argument from civil government unto ecclesiastical: yet to say that therefore one ecclesiastical officer may bear rule over an other/ yea that one may bear rule over his fellows of the same order/ because the magistrate beareth rule over private men/ cleaneth together as goats dung. So that if there were any argument here/ it is/ that as my Lord mayor ruleth over the citizen's: so it behooveth the pastor to rule over his flock. The next division is 
c In 2. ca of this Tract.  answered. 
d Divi. 54. pag. 399.  Where he calledged Calu. that upon that Paul willed Titus to appoint Elders/ saith Titus was in authority and counsel above other Pastors: and I opposed Calu. which showeth that he did nothing in that behalf without the advise off other pastors, and consent off the churches: he asketh hotly still for answer. As if it were not answered especially when I showed before/ that the superiority that ministers can have in such meetings/ is only to propound etc. as is before declared. Which Calu. do the expressly set forth in the same place/ when he saith: S. Paul commanded him only 
upon Tit. 1. Diuis. 55. pag. 399.  to be precedent or moderator in the election.  
The two first sections how shamefully they be said/ I leave to the reader's judgement: in the last/ against that I alleged out of the Scoliaste/ that Paul would not have one rule the whole isle/ and therefore not Titus: is brought first an exposition gone about to be confirmed of him/ and chrysostom/ which say that Paul committed unto Titus Crete, and to Timothy almost all Asia. As if that might not well stand with that/ that Titus governed one city alone. for in that they had authority given them/ to appoint ministers in form aforesaid/ in all that circuit/ until the church there were fully established/ and a lawful ministery thoroughly planted▪ there charge in that respect/ extended it self to that whole circuit. But when the country was divided into several churches/ and every church had a lawful/ and complete ministry: he charge before general/ is now restrained unto that one church where Titus made his abode. Even as every off the 12. Prince's/ and Aaron which divided the land of Canaan/ had before partition a certain power off all: which after lots cast had only to do with that/ which appertained to them in several. A though if it be granted that Titus and Timothe continued that large government/ during their abode there/ wherein I will not strive): yet considering as hath been showed they were Evangelists/ and no Bishops/ nor Archbishops: there can nothing grow to them hereby. For as no man can have government over all the churches which the apostles had/ but they that have that special office: so none can succeed into the jurisdiction of Evangelists/ but they only which have that extraordinary ministery. And therefore Caluin in the place before cited off the D. saith/ there was not then such equality, etc. but that one did rule over an other: noting by the word then (which the D. hath unfaithfully left out) that the government which Titus had in Creta/ was for those times when there were such extraordinary callings.  
Where he saith/ in streightening Titus to one church, I make him pastor, 
Diuis. 56. pag. 400.  which I donie: let him learn that to have charge in one church alone/ not a pastor/ unless he be so tied that he can not depart/ without the church loose his bond. Which neither Titus' was/ nor is by any word affirmed of me. Whether the rest be shamels accusations/ let the reader judge. The next/ although unworthy of answer/ being but bore affirmations against my reasons/ is answered 
e in 2. Tra. Divis. 1. Page 197.  before As for that those words receive no accusations, etc. must needs be understanded of one which hath other elders underneath him, and therefore not of every pastor: it argueth that the D. is spent. For he knoweth that we hold that every pastor had his elders assistan: which hath/ and shall (God willing) appear. Besides that it argueth his ignorance of the state of the elder churches: where (as hath been showed) bishops sat in judgement of other bishops/ and elders not underneath them. That there be not a hundredth 
1. Tim. 3. 2. & 4. 12. & 5. 10. Tit. 2. 2 Diuis. 59 pag. 402.  several precepts, in the three epistles to Timothe, and Titus (whereas in divers verses there be six/ or seven) doth well become his boldness. Against reason alleged out of Augustine/ that the place out of Epiphanius was of some false Epiphanius: here is nothing but authority. Howbeit not to strive for this: before I come to answer it is to be noted/ that this is Pigghius reason against the church of God/ even in the very self same cause which we have now in hand/ touching this sort of bishops. For against the Waldenses first/ and after against Wickleve/ which put no difference between a bishop/ and a priest: 
c Pigghius. Hierar. 2 lib. 10. ca  Pigghius hath a treatise in his Hierarche/ wherein he pressethe them with this testimony of Epiphanius. And further saith of Wickleve/ that therefore he took away the difference between bishop/ and elder/ because he could not obtain the bishopric of Worcester. and in 
d lib controvers. 16. contr.  an other book inveigheth sharply against them/ for that they would have neither Pope/ nor primate/ nor Archbishop/ nor Bishop.  
And that it may yet appear even to the simple reader/ that they had the same cause against Pigghius/ and the Papists which we against the D. I offer to his consideration/ beside the two flat testimonies of M Barnes and Hooper 
e in the preface to the 3. cap.  before cited/ M. Wickleves tenth article in these words 
f M. Fox  There be 12 disciples of Antichrist: Popes, Cardinals, patriarchs, Archbishopes, Bishops, Archedeacons', Officials, Deans, Monks, Canons, Friars and Pardoners. If the D. say that Wickleve spoke that not of the offices/ but off their abuse in popery: that shift will not serve/ considering that he leaveth out priests/ and Deacons. Whereof the priest especially/ doing more mischief then diverse which are reckoned: yet because he occupied the place off the pastor in every congregation/ which was the ordinance of God/ and was only a depravation/ and deformity of the true ministery: he spareth him. the other because they were devised/ partly harbingers to prepare his way/ partly puruc●ers to entertain his estate: he marked with the black coal of antichristianity. If it be further said/ that Wickleve should by this means condemn the estate of a bishop/ which S. Paul alloweth off: it is manifest that he bet against the lord bishop/ which ruleth over other ministers in adiocese: considering that he leaveth the priest/ the deformity of the teaching minister/ which minister is all one (as hath been showed) with S. Paul's Bishop. Beside this reason/ they may as well say he spoke not against the office of Pope/ canons/ Monks/ Friars/ Pardoners/ but only against the abuse: which is absurd. This to the learned may better appear by Pigghius' discourse: which confesseth that the Waldenses/ and Wickleve left the order of priesthood (as they call it) and that the whole question between them was not whether lord bishops/ and Archbishops did their duty/ but whether they were lawful estates. Whereby appeareth that whosoever was the D. merchant/ these wares come from one of the filthiest puddles of popery: and withal that as soon almost/ as there was any set and apparent estate of the church/ which proclaimed open war against Antichrist/ the letters of defiance were as well sent against the 
In lib advers. papat. a Satana fundat. vel Parochis. 1. Cor. 12. Rom. 12.  Archbishop/ and longehanded bishop/ as against the Pope.  
Luther also after them/ writeth thus: Bishops wheresoever they be in all the world, are equal to our bishops, or parish ministers, and preachers: of none can it be said one is lord, an other a servant: they are off the same judgement, and whatsoever belongeth to the church, equally belongeth to all except that (which Paul teacheth) some preacher or Christian may be off a sounder faith than other, have greater gifts than another, interpret the scripture better than an other, rule better than an other, preach better, and have the discretion of spirits more than an other etc. howbeit such gifts 'cause no inequality, or lordship in the church Here I will also set down the judgement of the reformed churches in Helvetia/ Zurich/ Berne/ Geneva/ Polonia/ Hungry/ Scotland/ etc. who having reckoned the ministries specified in scriptures/ add: in the times 
in their confession.  following there were many other titles of ministers brough into the church For some were ordained patriarchs, some Archbishops, other suffragans, also metropolitans, Archelders, etc. but for all those we pass not either what they were in times past, or are now: the apostles doctrine of the ministers is sufficient for us. If all these churches make no account off these offices/ not only as they are now/ but when they were at the best if they esteem them without the doctrine of the Apostles: I leave to the reader's judgement what estimation they had of them/ and how the D. would abuse us/ that draweth the sentences of the chief in this confession/ to prove their convenience. Neither do I dowbt but that our Archebishops'/ and Bishop's refusing to join with the rest off the churches in this confession/ did it because they could not digest this morsel especial.  
Now to come to the D. that saith/ Epiphanius calleth us heretics: which pinchethe us. master Wickleve/ and the poor Waldenses bore it at Pigghius' hand/ we must do it at the D. in deed so much more pinching/ as it cometh from him/ from whom it least ought. But what remedy: the Lord will look to it in time. Howbeit because this arrow is (as it is said) of Epiphanius a man subject to error/ shot out of Pigghius bow/ one given up to error/ having no head of the word of God to make it enter: it may peradventure raise the skin/ but wound it can not make. But Augustine reckenethe it so: but Augustine reporteth what he found written. for touching his own judgement he is flat against Epiphanius: which maketh a bishop and an elder differ by the apostles institution/ whereas Augustin (as I have showed) 
in 16. diu. pag. 169.  teacheth even as Jerome/ that this difference was not by the word of God/ but by custom. now I would know of the D. how Augustin can hold that for an heresy/ which (to leave the rest) can not be convinced by the word of God/ but only by a custom of the church. And here first he must either let go his hold of Jerome/ or this of Epiphanius. For if it be true that Epiphanius holdeth/ that a bishop and an elder differ by the apostles institution: than it is false which Jerome and others hold/ that they were all one at the first/ and that the difference came by custom. Contrariwise if Jerome in that point say true (as in deed he doth): then Epiphanius authority falleth. Secondly/ if the D. will prejudice this cause/ for that Epiphanius a Catholic thowght them to differ by the word of God/ where Aerius an heretic thowght them all one/ or else in that Augustin reckoneth that amongst his heresies: by the same reason he must prejudice this truth/ that we ought not to pray/ or make any oblation for the dead. For both 
a lib. 3: Tom. 1. 75. haeres.  Epiphan. esteemed him an heretic for his judgement in that behalf: and 
b ad quod vult Deum haeres. 53.  Augustin reporteth this as one of his heresies/ which is catholic doctrine. So that Pigghius might use this authority better/ which condemnethe as well the one/ as the other: then the D. which houldethe (as I think) for Catholic/ that which Aerius the heretic affirmed/ and for heretical/ which Epiphanius the Catholic condemned.  
The flower of Epiphanius reasons/ brought before/ is answered: now the D. distressed/ bringeth forth tag and rag. for touching Epiphanius saying (the bishop by imposition of hands begetteth fathers 1. teachers to the church, where the priests begat only sons: it is but ask off that in question/ when Aerius holding them both one by God's institution: the imposition of hands belonging unto the bishop/ must needs be affirmed to appertain unto the elder. neither doth Epiphanius answer the reason out of SAINT Paul/ that Timothe was ordained 
c 1. Tim. 4. 14  by imposition of hands of the company of elders. Likewise that brought of a bishop above an elder, because 
d 1. Tim. 5 1  S. Paul willeth Timothe not to rebuke an elder: to let go other faults as many as are words in the sentence/ it is absurd that he referreth that unto an elder by office/ which is spoken of an elder by years/ and referreth that to the public minister which is understanded only off a private member of the church: as appeareth manifestly by the opposition of a young man/ and after off the elder woman. So I leave to be esteemed/ what good cause the D. hath to cover his face/ in that wheroff he so greatly vaunteth. The next division is 
a Tract. 3. cap. 3 de Evangelist, etc.  answered. In the next/ I leave it to the reader whether the D. order hath the heels upward: which after endeavour to show the necessity/ the causes/ yea the examples of a thing/ setteth himself to prove that it was. although if this be his trim order/ he hath kept it evil. for chrysostom brought for confirmation of the first/ cometh after Jerome/ which is brought to bear up his second. 
b 61. diui. pag 409.  That Ignatius bishop was but of one particular congregation only/ I 
c in the praef. to the 3. ca of this Tractat.  have showed: and therefore the words (over all) pressed off the D. as they are off 
d 4. lib, 1. ca Hiera.  Pigghius from whence this was taken/ are understanded of those within his particular church. Besides/ the kind of speech may be easilier drawn unto the whole world/ then off a diocese/ or province: for the reason assigned in my 
e diuis. 7. pag. 357.  former book: That the bishop ought to be above the elders which only governed/ and deacons: is confessed. if he were above the teaching elders/ that was by custom: whether good or bad/ let it be judged off that said. Howbeit that that be granted: it maketh nothing to prove a bishop over a diocese/ much less an Archbishop.  
When the bishop in every church/ or (to speak as the D.) in every diocese, was the Chief/ above whom there could not by 
Diuis. 62. pag. 409.  this Ignatius be any higher bishop in earth: I leave it to the reader's judgement how absurd the D. is/ who saith that Ignatius doth not overthrow his Archishop. for thereby he affirmeth/ that albeit the bishop of the Diocese were the highest bishop that could be upon earth: yet there might be an other higher than he. Also how fond he is in his reason/ that for as much as an archbishop is a bishop: therefore Ignatius allowing one, allowethe the other. When it is manifest by his own confession/ that Ignatius speaketh off one only sort off bishops/ either of one particular church/ as the truth is: or off one diocese/ as he imagineth. So that his argument is/ Ignatius allowethe one sort off bishops: therefore the Archbishop. all one as if a man should say/ he hath a kind of fish in his moat/ therefore a whale fish.  
The D. detected/ in that justins' precedent was neither bishop 
Divis. 63. Pag. 410.  of diocese/ nor Archbishop of Province/ but of one congregation: for excuse saith/ he brought the place to prove there might be superiority over the ministers. Where first his trim order, that all my logic, and Rhetoric is not able to move, is too pitiful. for how childish is it/ after so long travail to prove a bishop over the ministers off a diocese/ and th'archbishop of a Province/ in the end to endeavour to prove/ that there may be superiority? as if any man would deny this that granted the other: and it is to set the foundation upon the lover. yet I would know of him what meaneth the word (this) whereby appeareth not only that he brought it to prove superiority: but the superiority either of a bishop over a whole diocese/ or an Archbishop over a Province: considering that this is the superiority which he speak of before/ and imediatelie after. Secondly where I both by the use of the scriptures/ and ancient writers showed the word Brethrens, not taken for the governors but the people: observe how vainly he answerth/ that justine meant the ministers, and deacons by brethren, because he calleth the people after by the name of people. As if the rest off the church were not called both in scripture/ and other writers/ by diverse names. Thirdly how if it be granted/ that justins' precedent had superiority over the minister: yet how fond it is concluded/ that it is lawful/ because it was. Then how his weapons fetched from Master Beza/ have always their edge toward him/ and his cause. For he allegeth him to prove that justins' precedent did govern the rest/ and had the name of bishop: which in the same place flatly condemneth that policy/ as is declared. Lastly/ 
in 33. diu. Pag. 347.  how by this answer/ he maketh every pastor of a congregation to handle the governemen: which before he took from him/ when he shutteth him up in the administration of the word/ and samentes only.  
justines' writings compared as I compared them/ with the holy scripture/ are as I said a ditch: I added the reason/ that there was in them not a little mud of errors/ which the D. could not answer: otherwise I acknowledge him both godly/ and learned. Master Beza sought not the word precedent in justine, but showeth how Timothe did the office at Ephesus/ which justines' precedent did: which was meet/ considering he had a higher ministery than any there. So that although Timothe above the degree of a bishop/ kept that presidentship continually during his abode: yet there was no reason that one Pastor of the same degree with other/ should take that upon him. If he were the true Ignatius/ he should in deed be before justin: but to let pass other exceptions/ with M. Caluins' sharp censure of him: it is absurd to ascribe to Ignatius SAINT john's scholar/ that vain boast/ off being able to 
a Ignat. ad ●ral.  expound the orders of Angels/ their varieties/ the distinctions and differences between virtues/ powers/ Thrones/ etc. 
b Divi 64 pag. 411.  That priest is no fit name for a minister off the gospel, is touched after: that the names proper to our S. Christ/ can be communicated with man/ is absurd/ and before confuted: where also the name of Prince/ a peace of Prince of Priests, is showed unfit 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  far the ministry. That there may be one Archbishop over bishops/ as there is one bishop over pastors/ hath no part true/ as hath been showed: only let it be noted/ that the reason here for the Archbishop/ is 
c Defence Apol. part. 5. c. 6. Divi. 1.  hardings for the Pope.  

d Divi. 65. 66. pag. 41●.  This argument brought 
e divis. 18. Pag. 332.  before and 
f pag 471  after/ to prove our Archbishop's jurisdiction (that one had care of the whole Province) here is pursued. whereunto I answer here/ that care doth not necessarily draw jurisdiction/ or rule over that cared for: seeing that there is no minister (I might have said also no magistrate) yea not private member/ which ought not to have/ and show forth a care/ off all the churches which are in Christendom/ every one according to the means which the lord hath given. The Prince with his power/ the minister with his comfort/ and instruction/ the private man with the wealth God hath blessed him with/ at the lest with his prayer: the communion of saints/ and fellowfeeling in the members of one body/ requiring this. hereof we have example in 
g 1. Tom. Concil. earth. 3.  Aurelius/ which saith he had care off all churches. Bovins a Popish friar/ or Monk I well remember not whether/ taught in this point in the same school with the D. in esteeming that care off churches implied rule: lest the bishop of Rome should be hurt by that speech/ expoundeth all churches, all in Africa. Our D. ʰ alleging this place/ because in taking care in his sense/ for rule with authority/ he should 
pag. 471.  in travailing with the Archbishop have brought us forth a Pope: in steed of all churches, putteth many churches. so that he will never want: for if his places be to straight for his Archbishop's measure/ he setteth them upon the teinter hooks: if to wide/ he laiethe them in water and shrinkethe them. But what should I stand in confuting this? seeing it is so far off that care proveth rule/ and dominion: that it is seen not only in one equal over an other/ but even in servants over their masters. As for that that is said/ Chrysostom's care restrained here to certain places, can not be understanded off such a general care as comprehendeth all churches: I answer that the care off his own church being properly commended unto him/ it is meet that as the churches next do most affect his/ bettering it commonly if they be good/ making it worse if they be nawght: so in that general care over the rest/ there should be such dispensation/ as to have a greater care over those/ then over the rest: as we see in wise Princes/ more careful of the borderers/ then off those further removed from them. In which degree it is not unproperly spoken/ that he had the care off such churches rather than off all.  
His four notes out of Theodoret/ depend upon these woods (the same care): so that if it fall out that chrysostom had not the same rule over Thracia/ Asia/ etc. which he had over Constantinople: then those words spoken off the government he had in that city/ be idle to prove the same in Thracia/ etc. But first the D. crieth out of corruption, craft, and either ignorance, or malice. good words Master D. I pray you. For ignorance it is no great matter/ I am content you say that I borrowed two greek words of my neighbours. But why corruption, & c? did I not set down words sufficient to confute your untrue dealing/ which in stead of care/ put down rule? was I bound to set down more in greek/ then you surmised in English? yea could I have set down the word you require/ with any sense unto the reader: unless I had set down (as you now) the whole story/ and so have given your cause greater colour than yourself knew of then? I help you diverse times with arguments which you make much of: but will you bind me to do so always? I have more colour to cry out of you/ which to prove 
In the next din.  chrysostom governor of these places/ voluntarily cite Socrates trippinglie/ winding up in these words (et caetera) which is your ruin/ and which manifestly confuteth the largeness you suppose off the bishop of Consiantinoples' metropolitaneship. Therefore seeing this bitterness must be vented/ you at lest should have waited some better opportunity. now let us see whether these words (he had the same care over Thracia, etc. that he had over the church of Constantinople) will entitle Chrysostom lawfully to as great authority over one/ as over the other. For the discussing wheroff I must by thy good leave gentle reader/ fetch this matter somewhat higher.  
The 
a Socr. li. 5. ca 8.  Council off Nice/ bounding and butting the metropolitaneships decreed/ that the bishop of Constantinople (which it calleth the great city) should be metropolitan over Thracia/ certain other over Pontus/ others over Asia: to the number off ten metropolitaneships. This order was confirmed by other counsels of Constantinople/ and Ephesus/ as they are 
b Vieler. de statu Primit.  observed: and continued until the council of Chalcedon which most confusedly/ and disorderedly through extreme Ambition of the bishop of Constantinople/ drowned almost all these ten/ in his one only sea. Where also it was ordained by the same Council of Nice/ that the metropolitans should be off equal power/ and not one under an other: this Council made one Metropolitan over a number. Where further it was ordained by diverse councils/ as hath partly before/ and partly may appear by ᶜ Theodoret/ 
lib. 5. 23 cap.  that the Metropolitan of every Province/ should be chosen by the bishop's thereof: this Council maketh the bishop of Constantinople/ to have the appointment of all metropolitaneships/ within the compass alleged by the D. Moreover where the same Nicene Council/ with sundry others ordained/ that the bishops of the Province at the lest three/ should be at the ordination of every bishop: this Council give the it in the bishops of the Barbarians (meaning as I suppose Scythians) unto him of Constantinople. Now if the D. will make chrysostom accessary unto this famous robbery/ if guilty of all this confusion/ and disorder off the breach off so many Canons of the Nicene/ and other Counsels/ and finally if he will make him a Pope: he doth him that injury which I would be loath. For where unto me/ alleging that if he were Archbishop of all these churches, he was off more than ever the Pope, in his greatest pride: he answereth that I am greatly deceived, for that Phocas the Emperor made all these churches, and all other subject to the Pope, and appointed him head off all: I answer that he is greatly deceived. Considering that the Empire being divided into the east/ and west Empire/ more than 250. years before Phocas made Boniface the third Pope: Phocas could not having his Empire for the most part in the east/ where the churches were most ruined/ make all or half the churches subject unto Boniface. So that it is manifest that chrysostom (by his saying) metropolitan of all Asia, and a good part of Europe: must needs have more under him/ then Pope Boniface. What the Pope claimed, is nothing to that I set down: which spoke precisely off that he was/ and not of that he claimed to be. Therefore if he build upon Chrysostom's supposed metropolitaneship: he doth manifestly allow a larger circuit unto a bishop/ then ever any Pope had.  
If I would have sought to have discredited chrysostom: I might have answered that it was no marvel/ though he exercised such dominion/ considering that both Socrates/ and Camerarius after him/ which commend diverse virtues of his 
lib. 6. c. 4  affirm him to have been a proud man. But considering that himself opposeth the emperors large dominion/ to a bishops charge in one city: I chose that sense which I setdowne. Neither are there any words either in Theodoret/ or the Centuries/ so strong to carry the metropolitaneship over all these places/ to chrysostom: as Nazianzenes' words before handled/ are to carry 
in diu. 26 pag. 340.  the metropolitaneship off almost all the churches in the world / unto Cyprian. For these words he had the same care, can not be understood as the D. would/ that he did the same things in all places which he did at Constantinople. For how could he teach/ and rebuke sin in all that circuit/ as there? deprive and excommunicate in proper person/ as there? so that will he nil he/ the words must have a restraint in respect of those before. as for the greek word he translateth he governed, which signifieth he adorned: unless he have some singular licence/ i● is for a translation 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  especially/ too riotous. although if that were there: it draweth no metropolitan authority/ as hath been showed in Cyprians example. I grant Sozomenes are more pressing/ which speaketh off his deposing off the bishops in Asia: and if to maintain my former answer I would say/ he deposed them not by his authority/ but by his counsel/ as Diophantus said off the 
Plutarch. de instit. pueror.  city of Athenes ruled by him, because Themistocles his father which ruled it, was guided by his mother, and his mother by him: and thereto allege that he is called the Doctor of the woride by the same 
b 5. lib. ca 32.  Theodoret/ when notwithstanding he could not be an authorized doctor of such a compass: it would peradventure be more than he can well answer. But if he will as he doth/ make that his pattern to frame his Archbishop by: he maketh us a faicrer but to shoot at/ then before: the archbis. being made thereby in authority off breaking canons of the best councils/ by putting in and putting out of his absolute power/ not infeferior unto the pope of Rome/ and in compass of dominion above him/ and a fatter Pope than he. And beside that it is but trifling/ to fetch examples of Archbishop like government/ four hundred years and a half after Christ/ or there about/ where the question is off three hundred: I have showed how dangerous it is/ to build upon the examples of those times: especially when even in this point off broad dominion/ before Chrysostom's time there was an intolerable excess in the bishop of Antioch: which beside Chrysostom's compass/ had also all 
Theodor. li 5. ca 23.  Illyricum.  
touching Ireneus embassage into Phrigia: the D. eye is not simple. For after Euseb. had showed that there were Ambassadors 
5. li. ca 3. & 4.  sent by the french churches/ to those of Phrigia: he addeth as an augmentation/ that they were also sent to the bishop of Rome. After to the end the embassage might have more authority/ he showeth how Ireneus was sent being commended unto the bishop of Rome: to the end (as may easily appear) that his letter also obtained with theirs/ the churches might be the rather moved. Whether I have followed the Scoliastes meaning/ touching every hishop having a several congregation: I refer me to that I have before alleged. The D. answer to 
Homil. 3. in Act.  chrysostom which placeth the bishops charge in one city (that he doth but show how the Bishop is subject to as many afflictions, as the Emperor, and that he putteth no difference between the Bishop and the Emperor) is but a cavil. For his purpose is to show/ what are the manifold troubles that accompany the ministry/ thereby to pinch those which seek after it: and that he doth with an argument of comparison/ in that being but bishop off one city: yet he is subject not only to so many, but to more troubles then the Emperor/ which hath so large government. Now if bishop's authority should be extended/ as the D. esteemeth Chrysostom's: who seeth not that his comparison halteth down right? considering that there were few emperors/ or rather none sithence Constantine/ that ever had so large dominion/ as this ascribed unto chrysostom. For against this argument it might have been easily replied/ off those which lay in wait for the ministery/ that seeing one was able to govern so many whole countries/ and nations: it could not be so hard a matter/ to govern one only city.  
I could not here be put to shift, seeing where our question is off 300. you fetch your proofs of 400. whether I have said 
Diuis. 67. pag 415.  true: let the reader judge. Where I allege the first act off the Chalcedon Council/ that the bishops cried that Theodoret was no bishop: be allegeth the 8. act, that he was. If it be 
a pag. 65.  a simple answer to set one author against an other: it is much more simple to set one authority at variance with it self/ without showing any way of reconciliation. That the Council did well in condemning that Theodoret/ appeareth for that he had 
b evag. 4. lib. ca 38.  written against Cyril/ even in that cyril wrote against Nestorius' errors: in which respect his 
c Concil. Ephes.  books were commanded to be burnt with those errors. And this was not only done by the Council of Chalcedon/ but by that also off Ephesus/ and Constantinople: so that here are three condemnations passed against him/ for one absolution. And that what manner off one? verily which appeareth to have been through the favour off the Emperor Martian. For what if he revoked his heresy there/ as he had (I think) done before in the Council of Constantinople: yet as I have showed/ there was no cause why he should be trusted with such a great charge/ no not in the D. judgement (I suppose) so soudenlie/ and without further trial. Which I say not to discredit his true repentance/ and learned writings: but only to show/ how totteringly the D. Archbishop is set.  
Where I alleged that the Emperor Theodosius, and Valentinian commanded him to keep him to his own church only: his answer is fond/ that the emperors meaning was, that he should not come to the Synod. For are these two all one: to keep himself to his own church only, and not to come to the Synod?? When he might come to the synod/ although he kept not himself to his own church only: which he could not have done/ if they had been all one. Where he saith/ it appeareth that the Emperor gave that charge, that he should not come unto the Synod but called: it maketh nothing to the purpose. For that may well stand with that I alleged/ off his keeping to one church only. And in deed there had been small wisdom/ to have forbidden him the Council in respect of the heresy he laboured off: and yet to have suffered him to govern such a mighty people. When I expounded tars, hypocrites: I had not the book before me/ but trusting therein to Theodoretes knowledge in the scripture/ esteemed that he meant them/ off whom the parable is understanded: that is those/ off whose either corruption in life/ or doctrine/ the church can have no certain knowledge to proceed against/ or to give (as he did) sentence upon. Neither is he yet purged off the suspicion: considering that it can hardly be believed/ that there was not in 800. churches one only heretic. And if there were not: yet it was hard for him to have such knowledge off so many churches/ whereby he might give so precise a sentence: especially if they be compared with ours/ which often have heretics even under there nose/ and either see them not/ or look through their fingers.  
Where to declare the unlikelihood of our bishops with 
Divis. 68 Pag. 416.  them in times past/ Theodoret bishop 26. years is showed to have had never a halfpenny, etc.: his answer is/ he professed voluntarily poverty. Whereto I have little to reply/ but that the D. for advantage spareth not the honour of his authors: it being a great reproach in so great wealth as the D. supposeth he might lawfully have had/ to be so beggarly. The next I leave to the reader's judgement. That the office of Archbishop/ and Patriarch/ by Caluin was nothing but to assemble the Synod/ propound 
diu. 70. 71 pag. 418. in diu. 38. pag. 385.  the matter/ gather the voices/ etc. I have showed. condemning those names in the general/ he must needs condemn them in the particular: for in both those names/ the word of dominion is put/ which he condemneth. That he condemneth the office with us/ is clearer than the sun: and that in divers sorts/ first general in that upon the Apostles words (no man may take honour but he that is called as Aaron) he denieth 
a Upon the Heb.  it lawful to set up any government in the church at the pleasure off men, without waiting for the commandment of God and that the church office devised without his commandment, and express ordinance, is unlawful. Whereby appeareth that the admonition's allegation/ which the D. 
b Diuis. 11. pag. 462.  other where calleth gross, is in effect as fine as Caluins. Secondly in that he doth in flat words declare/ 
c Inst. 4. li. ca 4. s. 4:  that the holy ghost took great heed/ that one should not so much as dream off principality/ and dominion in the government of the church. Thirdly in that he 
d Upon the Philip. 1.  doth precisely mislike/ that any should have postorall charge over a Province: which he declareth yet more manifestly/ when he 
e Inst li. 4. ca 6. se. 2.  saith the government of the high priest which was over one nation▪ being a figure off our Sau. Christ, ought not to be followed Whereby appeareth how untrwly he chargeth me 
f Divi. 16. Pag. 467.  otherwhere/ with falsifying Caluin, for saying that his judgement is, that no one should be minister off a whole nation. That 
g Upon Philip: 1.  only which he liketh off/ and confesseth to have been done according to the word of God/ is that when there were controversies to be voided/ one had the pre-eminence to assemble the company/ etc. which pre-eminence we have before confirmed/ so far is it from us/ that we can not abide it.  
That it can not be drawn further/ appeareth by that in the beginning off this treatise: where it is manifest he straingeth himself/ to speak honourably off the manner of discipline in the elder churches: yet he saith/ 
h 4. li. ca 4. sec. 1.  there was almost nothing against the word off God. And further/ that althowgh there may be some lack in their orders: yet because they did it often good mind and erred not much, it is good to gather it. Moreover touching that institution which of all other is most plausible/ and lest princelike/ that one in a church should have the name of bishop/ which notwithstanding (as hath been showed) had no dominion/ nor authority to command the rest/ he saith: 
i Upon 1. Philip.  that authority had no institution, nor ground out off the word of God. Whereupon it is manifest/ those words of Calu. (the old bishops did frame no kind of government but prescribed in the lords word) can not be drawn further than I have said. Where he expoundeth Caluins' words/ every singular body of church, a diocese or province: it is (as all the rest off these divisions) a shameful boldness/ considering that Calu. doth in express words/ shut forth a province: and in calling it a singular body, used most proper words to set forth a congregation which assembled into one place/ may at once be fed at one mouth.  
Where also otherwhere he supposeth Calu. meant by Provinces, such as are under diverse governors, because one Province in one particular 
pag. 468.  church, in one kingdom, under one Prince, is but one body, etc. to omit his absurd speech/ that a province is in a particular church, in stead that he should have said/ a particular church is in the province: let it be observed that in making the whole church in a kingdom/ but that singular body Calu. speaketh off: he maketh notwithstanding the church in one province/ which is the half off that/ yea every diocese to be that singular body. So that one singular/ and undivisible body of a church/ must be twenty/ and one of them also containing an other: which is absurd. yea by this means the church in a 100 Provinces being under one Prince/ shall be but one singular body. His reason that he can not mean a particular parish, because every one hath not many ministers: is a cavil. For it is enough that there were diverse in some churches (as in the church off philip's whereof he spoke) to draw him to that consideration. Besides that there was (as shall appear) in the particular churches/ appointed by the word of God an eldership: amongst whom it was meet the same order should be kept. Where he supposeth Caluin to have thowght the church of Geneva with all those belonging unto it, to have made but one body of a church: all see the D. poverty/ driven to leave his wide works/ to seek some comfort in his thowghtes/ only known to the lord. If I should use the advantage off that he spoke/ and I heard off undowbted witnesses/ that although he had no pre-eminence before the lowest Minister/ but only to propound the causes/ gather the voices/ etc. and was chosen thereunto every two year: yet he misliked that that small pre-eminence should so long remain with one/ as which in time might breed in convenience: likewise that I heard myself of Master Beza which misliked off it for the same cause/ affirming it convenient that it should be done by every Pastor of the same resort in his week/ whereof there be also other witnesses: I say if I should use this advantage/ a great deal more honest than his: all see how that change of presidents which he derideth/ and will have my only fantasy, should beside the scripture alleged/ and use off the churches in France/ have the approbation of these godly learned men. But when in deed he deride the their judgement written: I have small hope that he will bear any reverence to it only spoken. Neither require I that he esteem any thing theirs/ which can not be convinced out of their writings: let him wrest and wring/ wind and turn his worst.  
But that we be not straight with him/ admit Caluin so thowght: doth it follow that because he esteemed a singular body of a church/ scarce 20. small parishes lying round about/ whereof every of the ministers at the lest meet once a week/ both for exercise off prophesy/ or interpretation of the word/ and to hold common consultation: that therefore he esteemed the whole diocese of London/ or Province of Canterbury where there are many thousand parishes/ might conveniently grow into one particular body/ to be governed off one Pastor. Truly this is but kolde reasoning. Where I charged him with unfaithful dealing, for leaving out that wvich Caluin noteth (that the office of Archbis. and Patriarch was rarely used) to cover his unfaithfulness: he allegeth the later edition, which hath not that sentence. Which is partly answered 
a in Divi. 43. pag. 391.  before: but add this also that even the noted book which he followed/ had thus much of that sentence/ although it may not be passed by in this disputation. There wanted only this (it was very rarely used) and that through the printers fault: considering that without it there is no sense/ nor knot with that before or after. Therefore if there had been any love of the truth in him: meeting with such a gap/ he would have sought to have made it up in the later edition. His shift (Calu referrethe that to the patriarch, and not to the Archbishop/ because there was small cause of exercising his authority: is only said/ and in deed contrary to thanthors' words and meaning. Words/ for that giving that note off his disputation there, which is both of the Archbishop/ and Patriarch: it must follow by all likelihood/ that the note also is of them both. Against his meaning manifestly: for he placing both their offices/ in propounding matters unto the Synods/ which for their hardness could not be ended of few: and giving them nothing to do more than their fellows/ but that: it must follow that the oftenest Synods wherein the archbishop was precedent/ being rare/ and but twice a year: his office also was off very rare use. Whereby appeareth that Caluins mind was to show/ that the archbishops and patriarchs office/ endured only but the time of the Synod: which ended/ he had no authority but in comen with other bishops/ until the next synod. So that although they were not chosen at every action: yet calvin's judgement standeth/ that both those offices were but off rare use.  
The D. only trifleth in Hemingius. For we affirm degrees 
Divis 72. pag. 419.  of ministry of the word/ grant also that there were patriarchs/ but deny them to have been immediately after the Apostles: which Hemingius doth not (as he untruly saith) affirm. That that church abolishing the Patriarch and Archbishop kept the distinction between the bishop/ an other ministers off the word/ which the church brought in/ is confessed: but that it ought not so to be is before declared: although the bishops there in respect off the height of ours/ are but dwarves. His answer to that Hemingius saith/ that S. Luke 22. putteth a difference between the office of a Magistrate, and ministers, and that dominion is altogether taken away from these: is very fond. His reason out of the Hebr. is before answered: so that his unfaithful dealing in Hemingius remaineth. If there be no circumstance in M Fox alleged 
Diuis. 73. pag. 422.  by the D. which give further answer: I stand to that before made/ and refer it to the reader's judgement: especially seeing to that alleged/ where M. Fox flatly condemneth the degrees of primates, metropolitanes, and archbishops as ambitious, the D. can not answer. In saying he went about to corrupt him 
Master Fox. p. 96  with his praise, I do M. Fox no injury: it being no fault to be assaulted/ but to be overcome, Whether I do the D. any let the reader judge.    

The maintenance of the reply to the Bishop of Salisb. answer touching certain Articles against the D.  
Chap. 4. Diuis. 1. pag. 422.  
THat the Bishop is directly against the D. in affirming that there be no Apostles, Evangelists, or Prophets, 
pag. 424.  is manifest. his shift wherewith he would accord himself with the bishop: is is before bewrayed. That the taking away of the apostles/ prophets/ and Evangelists/ hindereth 
In Tra. 3. pag. 229.  not the perfect number of preaching ministers hath been declared: beside that it is gross to say that the division is not perfect because certain parts of it are not now extant: as if the law of dividing extended not itself to things both past/ and to come. He that parteth the church into that before: and under the Gospel: doth he therefore make an evil partition/ because there is now no church before the Gospel/ that is/ under or before the law? Here the D. leaveth 
Divis. 3. Pag. 424.  the bishop to his own defence/ touching that he affirmed a bishop not contained in the place to the Ephes. The division there being given (as hath been said) of those ministers only which with government handle the word: both here/ and in the fift division the D. doth but trifle in the examples of the elder and deacon: seeing we hold/ and will (God willing) show them not to have to do with the word. Where hereupon he would bring in his archbishop, and archdeacon: it is but repetition of that 
a in di. 18. 19 pag. 309. etc.  before/ where he hath answer. If there be a preaching elder, not contained under a Pastor: seeing he maketh a Pastor. and Doctor all one (unless he fly to his fancy of Apostles/ etc.) there is by his saying a preaching ministery/ not taught in the scripture. If there be/ let him show it.  
Where I gave the catechizing unto the Pastor: I will have it meant where there is no Doctor: otherwise I have in the second 
Diuis. 4. pag. 425.  edition amended that/ assigning it as more proper to the D. So that the Doctor being instituted to the Ephes. he whom they called Catechist/ which taught the grounds of religion/ is likewise: albeit S. Pa. calleth all manner of preaching Cathechising. 
Gal. 6. 6.  That public reading in the church is as solemn a matter as catechizing the youth, is a piece of the former frenzy (reading is as good as preaching) already confuted. That a reader hath been counted necessary is said without proof: and if it were/ it was falsely counted: there being no necessary ministry not specified in the scripture. And when they were first/ notwithstanding them/ the church ministry was (as hath been showed) divided into bishops/ elders/ and deacons: so that they came not then so much as into account of the ministries. If they be convenient at any time: that there is scripture to warrant them/ even as the Sexton that kept the church door key hath been 
* In the 1. Tract.  showed. That the archbishops, archdeacon's, and our bishops have no succour by this/ being supposed the principalest ministries/ and therefore such as ought to have been commanded: hath been likewise disputed/ where these coleworts are answered. 
In this Tract. c. 1.  That the Deaconship as I take it is no government, but a simple service, is idly alleged/ contrary to nothing here set down. It may seem against that alleged before/ where I comprehend it under the ministers which govern only: which I did not to set it 
in 36. din. pag. 816.  in the same kind of government with the elders/ but for that it ordering the church money/ and overseeing the poor/ might in a general signification be so called.  
If the D. can show one letter/ that I ever wrote or spoke/ that the place to the Ephes. containeth all things necessary for the church: 
Diuis. 6. pag. 426.  then this that he writeth may have place. If not: then he is unworthy to receive answer/ seeing he hath been given to understand/ how far we extend that place. Therefore whether there were Public churches, Pulpits, Schools, universities in Christian congregations, pertaineth not to the question/ unless it hath partly/ and might further be showed: only I give the reader warning that judg. ●. off those said to handle the pen, whilst I gave to much credit to translations/ was not so fitly alleged/ to prove universities. The three next divis. are idle repetitions/ before answered. Where I showed that one high priest was ordained over the jews, only that he might represent our S. Christ, chief of 
Diuis. 10. pag. 428.  the whole church: the D. answereth/ he was also for policy, and government. His reason (our Saviour Christ came not to take away ecclesiastical policy) ●s vain: as although there could be no ecclesiastical policy/ unless one minister were ruler over a whole nation. After he citeth Caluin in the same faith he is wont. For his words (no reason compelleth to extend that to the whole world profitable in one nation) are only understanded off that government in jury before our Sau. Christ's coming. which is manifest in that he saith/ that example ought not to be followed, considering it was done in respect that the high priest was a 
Instit. lib. 4. ca 6. s●. 2.  figure off our Saviour Christ, and the priesthood being translated that right is likewise. And after: that example of the priests government over the whole nation/ was but for a time. 
ibid. se. 3.   
That the pressing off the example of the high priest amongst the jews, draweth a Pope: I leave to be considered off that before written: especially seeing the high priest was not only governor of the jews/ when they were pa●ed in the land 
in 31. diu. pag. 380 Act. 2. 4.  of Canaan: but even then also when (as it is known) they were scattered thorough out all nations in the world. For as S. Luke saith it to have been/ immediately after the ascension of our Sau. Christ: so was it many years before his coming into the world. So that he which will frame an Archbishop by that example/ establisheth the Ecclesiastical charge off one/ over those which were scattered thorowghowt all the corners of the earth. It would be also observed/ how here the D playeth on both hands. For when we reason sometime only off the proportion off the law to the gospel/ other sometime of the perpetual law of God: we receive answer that we are jewish enemies to the liberty of the church. But where there is any thing under the law/ coming within a furlong of his cause: he gripeth it for gospellike/ and which ought to be followed. I see/ that M. Nowell thinketh a Metro poltane may be over a Christian province, as the high priest was over the Iwes: wherein/ I can be but sorry that all the Godly learned/ are not of one mind. As for Hyperius, he seemeth to reason upon a supposition: that if the example of the government of the high priest under the law should be followed (which he before denied): that then a man might conclude an Archbishop over a Province/ but not a Pope over the whole church. This to be his meaning I think the D. himself will accord me: else let him tell me what to 
Hypperili. 3 meth Thed.  answer to him/ that saith: that it is not read in the scripture/ that ever any of the apostles/ took unto himself authority or primacy over tother apostles/ but that a most perfect equality is showed to have been in all: that Christ did prescribe them equal offices in all things: that that manner of dominion which was not in thapostles 
Hypperius 4 lib. de ratione stud. Theolog.  time ought not to have been admitted in the ages which followed. Likewise what he will answer to him/ which condemneth as new found orders Archdeacon's Archelders and vicars. Whereof the 2. first have (as I haveshewed) better testimony of their ancienty than the Archbishop: and are/ if not of the same birth/ yet off the same kind that he.  
Where I show the titles of chief of the synagogue, of the 
Diuis. 11. pag. 429.  Sanctuary, of the hows of god, to make directly against him, considering that particular churches are now in steed of them, and therefore there ought to be such not in every Province or diocese but in every particular congregation: the D. as amazed speaketh he can not tell what. First/ that the jews had particular synagogues, as we particular congregations, and that I have confessed that before. As if I had any where denied it: or had not even here in effect affirmed it: or it helped him for answer/ which is the ruin off his cause. For their synagogues being the same that our particular churches/ in every one of them being not one/ but many princes: the urging off that example/ bringeth divers chief governors/ or archbishops in every particular church. Then he saith/ one Christian comen wealth is but one church, which is untrue. For first although the church be in a Christian comen wealth: yet neither is the comen wealth the church/ nor the church the comen weaith as shall appear. Besides/ I have showed that the scripture (of whose manner of speech the question is) useth not to call a Province/ or dioces/ a church: but either the whole universal/ or else a particular congregation. Thirdly if it were so/ yet the answer is insufficient. For if the name off the house of God/ were comen as well to a church in a Province/ as in a particular congregation: yet what right hath he to pull the ecclesiastical priesthood more to his provincial/ then to our particular church? He saith/ the superiority amongst the priests: and Levites, is by the civil law of Moses. Which declareth him ravished off all judgement: it being manifest that they were either Ceremonial/ or Ecclesiastical laws/ wherewith the Lord disposed of the degrees of the ministery: whereof the Ceremonial being abolished/ and therefore the chiefty of one priest over all/ we willingly retain the ecclesiastical.  
Where to that alleged off Princes of the families of Levites, I replied that the Lord would by those titles as by lively pictures, imprint in the Iwes understanding the chiefty of our S. Christ: he answereth/ that maketh nothing against their offices. Yes: for that those that would conclude thereof/ one chief/ now amongst the ministers in a Province/ are thereby put to silence. Where he addeth/ so the estate of a Prince over a land should be abolished: be is frivolous/ considering that that government/ hath other stays off the ordinance off God. Where that chiefty amongst the ministers/ hath nothing but that it was ceremonial. And if my answer like him not he shall have the bishops/ as little for his advantage which saith: The Prince of the families doth not signify 
In 4. Art. Divi. 31.  any governor, or one endued with power, but only the first and best man off the company. He complaineth that the Bishop speaking off the name, I drive it to the office. If he had been awake he should have perceived/ that the same reason I assigned why there was primacy in the ministry of the law/ unmeet for ours: serveth also to show why they might have the title of Princes/ which ours may not. For being the counsel of God/ in that superiority to peint forth the chiefty of our Saviour Christ: it was most convenient that that should be also written in the names.  
Where I showed the distribution of the Levites offices, 
Divis. 12. Pag. 430.  not made off David, but by express commandment of God: he saith the Bishop hath answered, that such negative arguments are but weak. So he bringeth him in answering this reason after his 
in tract. 1. di. 1. p. 77  death: for in his life it was not propounded. Howbeit I have showed how the argument holdeth: and that the D. shifted/ is hardings against the bishop/ confuted also by the bishop. Neither did the bishop condemn here simply negative reasons/ but that negative which supposed there ought to be no name of archbishop/ because there was none under the law: which he might worthily. For I showed that we mean nothing less/ then to conclude that/ of the precise government of the church under the law. Neither is mine an argument off one example but of comparison. For if David a figure off our S. Christ/ a man after Gods own heart/ a Prophet/ would not meddle with altering any thing in the ministries/ without God's word: what man is he that shall dare do it/ without the same warrant? By the Printers small oversight/ in putting 1. for 2. the D. hath stumbled upon a notable, place that josaphat appointed Levites, etc. for deciding the Lords causes not only in jerusalem, but for the whole country, and made Amaries the priest chief over them: yet no commandment read of, so to do. Which is untrue. For josaphat did nothing but commanded off the Lord by 
a Deut. 17 8. etc.  Moses; that there be in jerusalem an Ecclesiastical Senate whereof the high priest should be chief unto which they should resort in difficult cases/ not able to be voided at home. For otherwise 
b 2. Chro. 19: 5.  there was a Senate erected by josaphat in every strong city of Jewry.  

c Divi. 13. Pag. 430.  The jews church wanted nothing to that perfection, wherein the Lord would have it then, and many things were undecided by the express word of God: be friends/ and do well agreed. For both the perfection of it then/ as ours now/ standeth: if things constant defined upon/ there be also general rules left in his word/ whereby things variable by circumstances/ may be compassed. 
d Divi. 14. pag. 431.  In the next reason/ for causes there assigned/ I will proceed no further/ but leave it only to the reader's judgement: 
e Diuis. 15. pag. 432.  likewise whether I have showed/ that there were universities amongst God's people/ before our S. Christ's time: and whether the D. if he had wherewithal/ would not contrary it. That Schools are civil in heathenish comen wealths, and Ecclesiastical in Christian: is poor divinity. for so a Schoolmaster teaching Terence/ or Professor reading Aristotle is become an Ecclesiastical officer: which hath neither ecclesiastical election/ not ordination/ and is often chosen only of him that founded the School. Yea every one that reacheth to play on instruments/ whereby men may be apt to sing the lords praises: is one of the D. eeclesiastical officers. His reason (schools are like the first nurses of the true knowledge of God) is not good. For beside that the Father's house is the first nurse/ not the school: by this reason the Father of the household that nurtureth his sons/ yea the mother that bringeth up her daughters in the fear of God/ should be ecclesiastical officers: which are only economical/ or house governors. 
a Divi. 16. pag. 432. in Tract: 3. cap. 3.  That bishops can not come in place off th'apostles/ seeing they were together with the Apostles: is unanswered. That the D. allegeth off Apostles being bishops: is ᵇ before answered/ unless it be nothing to purpose. for to have confuted the reply/ he should have showed that all bishops are Apostles: where his places be/ to prove Apostles bishops. For it followeth not if all Apostles were bishops/ that all bishops should be Apostles.  
Where I show that Archbishops could not come in place off Apostles, if they were (as Erasmus supposeth) in their time; 
Diuis. 17. 433.  because they should so prevent the time, not waiting for the apostles death: he answereth/ where the apostles could not be themselves, there they appointed other: which is fond. For how followeth/ it/ that because they appointed others where they could not be themselves/ therefore they appointed archbishops? As if they might not appoint Evangelists: or in every particular church a Bishop. of Bishops appointed by the Apostles/ to conclude Archbis I have 
a in 10. d. pag. 304.  showed how sikly it is: likewise how that bishops being the Apostles 
b in 3. di-pag. 231.  successors/ is to be understanded. 
c Divi. 18. pag. 433.  Against my reasons/ that there is more liberty in instituting things in the comen wealth: here is nothing but bore denials. In answering generally of all offices in the comen wealth/ a man not utterly forsaken off his judgement/ must needs know that I had answered the example of Saul. 
d Divi. 19 pag. 434.  The answer to chrysostom, is made 
e in di. 55. pag. 339. & 66. 413  before. Where I show that Titus presidentship in ordination of bishops, implieth not perpetual government, if it did, yet not to help the archbishop. it is the D. part to show/ that judgement and government be all one, seeing he imagineth it a staff of his cause. But the reader may see/ that allthowgh the D. keep open shop still: yet his wares are uttered long sithence. For I beseech you in this defence of the bishops answer/ beside his own coleworts/ and bore repetition of the Bishop's reasons/ with some yea/ and naes: what hath he worthy the invention of the meanest? To the next divis. Further than I have I will not answer: the next also I leave to the reader's judgement.  
THe Council of Antioch/ repeated here with the commentary is answered. Where I show no need with us of archbishops, 
CAP. V Diuis. 2. pag. 436.  considering that the cause why they were ordained (to call Synods and propound the causes to be handled in them) is ceased with us▪ the D. in proving that Emperors called general councils, shooteth fair/ but cometh nothing near the mark. For unless some provincial councils were called by the Emperor: yet it is manifest both by the Council of Nice and by this I alleged/ 
Cap 5. Can. 20.  (that decreed there should be 2. provincial Counsels every year/ wherein the Metropolitan should give warning to the rest/ that the bishops might not hold a council without his knowledge) that the Metropolitan with the bishops advise/ might hold a Provincial Council. It was done I grant/ by consent/ and sometime by express confirmation of the Godly Princes: as in other things pertaining to the ministry their authority assisted/ when men refused to come to the bishops/ who were not able to compel them: but the order of it was with the Bishops. This although it were not in the 9 canon, yet when the D. knew it was in that council (as appeareth by his precise denying of it to be in that canon, where otherwise he would have said in that Council): it appeareth that he useth less sincerity in these holy matters/ then the Heathen ●n their profane. For Alexander counseilled 
Plutarch: in his life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  to set upon Darius in the night/ answered that he would not steal the victory: but the D. concealeth from his reader/ even that which he knew my answer must needs discover.  
Where he saith/ our metropolitan calleth Synods, although not provincial, and propoundeth the matters: first is nothing to the purpose. for calling only diocesan Synods/ he doth nothing which a simple bishop may not aswell as he▪ and therefore no cause why/ there should be an archbishop in this respect. Secondly/ all know that those Synods he speaketh off/ be holden for the most pate by deputies at his appointment. So/ that which the D. utterly condemneth in the Discipline we propound/ touching the choosing off a precedent every Synod/ is done here/ and that at the plrasure off one man/ not by consent off the ministers: yea by appointment of one for the most part no Ecclesiastical person/ in matters pertaining to the ministry. Thirdly/ I would know by what right/ the archbishop may call his diocesan Synods▪ if by Ecclesiastical/ then why not also the Provincial? considering that they are of one kind/ either both Ecclesiastical/ or both civil. If he do it by civil authority: why doth he not aswell wait for the magistrates commandment in one/ as in the other? He saith/ the archishops' office consisting in sundry other things besides calling Synods, propounding matters, overseeing the limits: ought not to cease although he do none of these. It being manifest that these were the chief causes/ under pretence whereof he was brought in/ and especially to th'end that controversies/ and contentions amongst the ministry/ by Synods called/ and ordered by him/ might he ended: it must follow that if we may spare him for these/ we may easily be with out him for the rest: and so this is not for the amendment/ but for the overthrow off his surisoiction. Because we agreed in the matter/ and I have before showed that 
Tract. 4. Diuis. 2. pag. 237.  the metropolitans were appointed to oversee that none passed his bounds: I omit the injury he doth in supposing that I sand him to the ninth Canon for that matter/ when as the word there by all indifferency/ ought rather to be referred to the council in the text/ then to the canon in the margin.  
Where I say that this oversight of limits/ may be without an archbishop: he saith/ it may be best by him: whereof let the reader upon the former allegations of both sides/ judge. where he affirmeth it no good argument against the archbishop, that he doth not keep the old Canons out off use with us: seeing our archbishop holdeth off those in times past/ and hath for his chiefest defence that there where archbishops in times passed: all see/ if there be not the same causes of them now that were then/ how at the lest this hold is thrown down. Where I show that our archbishop in giving licences to preach in a dozen dioceses at the least breaketh the same order for the keeping wheroff he was ordained: he answereth/ it is profitable. Where beside the untruth 
a Tractat. 3 & 4.  before showed/ he condemneth that order off the Council of Constantinople/ that 
b Soc. 5. li ●● 8.  decreed against that wandering: and overthroweth one of the causes whereupon the metropolitans office standeth. 
c Divis. 3. ●37.  That/ part off the difference of the metropolitan from other bishops, rose off the commodity of the city, and for that it was honoured with the emperors court: is manifest. by the increase and decrease/ lifting up and throwing down off the authority of the Patriarch all seats. That the Emperor might make the metropolitan seat which he would, I well understood, seeing I set it down 
d Divi 20. pag. 3●2.  before: but the question to/ where it is meetest the Archbishop should be/ if there must be one. And my reason was/ forsomuch as the place most fittest/ hath well and happily wanted him: therefore our church may be well without him. His trifling in the two translations/ argueth that to fill up/ he careth not if his reader peel straws: for nothing ●ether of them/ is against that I setdowne.  
The cavil against my order/ because I come from the council of Antioch back to Cyprian: is too simple. For it is not (as his) for one 
Divis 4. pag 438.  matter/ but for divers; beside that/ I reprehended him for that it skilleth much to observe the order off times/ when question was off the time/ and antiquity of th'archbishop/ Whether Cyprians words do flatly forbidden any one bishop to have authority over an other/ much les over all: I leave it be judged off that 
e 3. ca of this troth.  before. 
* 2. c. 2. tr.  likewise how honest an exception it is against this sentence/ that it was spoken in a Council where an error was decreed: also in 
f 2 ca of this treatise.  what sense I called Cyprian metropolitan: further how untrue it is that 
g 3. ca of this treatise.  he which denieth the authority of one bishop over an other, exempteth the ministers either from civil, or ecclesiastical subjection, or punishment. Lastly/ what a 
h 2. Tract. 6. cap.  cavil it is/ that when the correction of the disorders in the ministry is given to the civil magistrate, the prince thereby is overcharged. Now if the reader find upon the discourse before/ that the church well governed in Cyprians time/ had no archbishop nor metropolitan that had authority over others/ when there was most need/ considering there was then no christian bishops: Then it is manifest/ that there is now less cause/ when we have a Christian magistrate: which alleged here by me/ the D. himself (although he had good will to bite at) durst not come near.  
His cavil that I alleged this canon, falsely attributed unto the 
Diuis. 5. pag. 439.  apostles, is answered: beside that I 
i 2. Tract.  show that it being falsely assigned to them/ is notwithstanding the true canon of the Council of Antioch. The Canon is as I have alleged/ nothing neither added nor diminished, which might disadvantage the D. cause any ●ote. whether the bishop according to that canon/ may do that which appertaineth unto his own parish without the archbishop: whether the archishop taketh matters out of their hands/ concludeth them not making the bishop's prime/ contrary to the tenure of that canon (which the D. denieth). I leave to the reader's judgement/ his especially which hath seen the merchandise/ and traffic off his courts. And it may partly appear by the book of the 7●. archbishop's/ where Canterbury is made the head off all our churches, all bishops sworn to canonical obedience of that archbishop and defence of all Privileges and liberties of that seat▪ Where the bishop of London is his deane to call synods, to publish his decrees, to make return of th'execution: Winchester his chancellor, Lincoln his vice chancellor, Salisbury his chanter, Worcester his chaplain, Rochester his cross bearer when that baggage was. Where his authority is said to have no certain bounds but almost as himself listeth with other such archbishoplicke/ and unministerlike loftiness/ reckoned/ and earnestly avouched/ and yet notwithstanding (as he saith) sparingly touched: to th'end belike that it might have an easier defence. And if the lord bishops are his vassals the poor ministers what place shall they have?  
His repetitions I will not touch. The authority out of the 
Diuis. 6. pag. 440  counterfeit Higinus, as I noted him/ (that the metropolitan should condemn no bishop before the matter heard, and discussed by the bishops of the Province) maketh for us more than if it had been out of the true Higinus: considering that the archbishop in the counterfeit Higinus time/ being grown much our of fashion/ was yet girded in les room than ours. The like 
87. cap.  restreincte of his authority was in the African Council. How fond the D. answer is/ that our archbishop putteth none out without due proof, is manifest: considering that the greatest monarch that ever was/ hath no further authority to condemn/ then upon due proof. likewise what dalliance it is/ that he doth nothing but by consent 
in 2. Tra. Diuis. 1. pag. 170.  of all the realm, and therefore of the bishops: is before declared.  

a Diuis. 7. pag. 440.  Where missing the number of the Canon/ I alleged out off the Council of Antioch/ that the metropolitan had not so much as the casting voice, when the bishops were equally divided: he answereth/ there is no mention of equality of voices, as although he were ignorant/ that matters in councils/ passed by the more part of voices. Forsomuch therefore as the Council upon the division of the bishop's judgements/ willeth that other should be called: it is to be esteemed that that was/ because the bishops were equally parted. Where he saith/ thereby a metropolitan had authority over more provinces than one, it followeth not. For beside that the canon is of all metropolitans/ so that whatsoever any of them might do in an other's precinct/ that the other might do in his: by this account the elders/ yea the Deacons had authority over the bishops: considering that they accused/ might call other 
Council. 3. earth. cap. 8.  bishops than their own. Where he saieh/ th'authority of our metropolitan and bishops, is nothing increased but decreased, forsomuch as neither he nor all the bishops can deprive a bishop without the consent of the Prince, it is not to purpose/ seeing all the bishops in the world may not/ nor ever could off right remove a bishop by force/ if the Prince would keep him in. Our question is of the ecclesiastical sentence of deposition. And if he mean that a bishop heretic/ schismatic/ or corrupt in manners/ may not be proceeded against by an ecclesiastical sentence of deposition/ yea off excommunication (if the case require) unless the Prince will consent: beside that his endeavour off/ flattery is to manifest: his meaning is to cut out the archbishop so/ that he shall do neither more nor less than will agreed with his ease/ and whereby he may shift the Cross from his shoulders. For all know that Christian princes may be/ and sometimes are drawn to favour those/ whose pastoral government can not be but harmful unto the church: in which case the Ecclesiastical censures ought not to sleep/ to th'end that allthowghe he can not be removed: yet the church after he be descried/ and condemned for such as he is/ may fly from him. That the bishop may excommunicate an elder, belongeth to an other tractate: that he may depose an elder, is untrue: and hath appeared in that the council of Carthage decreed/ that an elder accused by 
3. Conc. cap. 8.  his bishop, might call 6. other bishops, and the deacon three: and likewise may by an other/ which decreed that being condemned 
Council. Sard. c. 17  off his bishop either by right or wrong, he might appeal unto other bishops. Beside that/ I have showed that he might hear no cause without his clergy: therefore those condemnations by the bishop/ must be understanded if he be duly/ and according to the order prescribed condemned. He abuseth also his reader/ in that he would prove the bishop's authority greater/ because it was forbidden to those put out by him, to go to the Emperor. Considering that the same canon giveth them remedy against the bishop in a greater assembly: yea even against a whole Synod in a more general than it.  
Whether the 4. first principal differences/ between the bishops in times past and ours now/ be true, let the reader judge 
Diuis. 8. pag. 441.  off that hath been alleged. Likewise of the fift/ upon that which hath and shall be: against which he hath nothing but repetitions. Also whether the D knoweth any thing of order, that denieth this to be the place off mentioning the excommunication, in such sort as I did. 
b Diuis. 9 pag. 442.  That alleged out of the Council of Hispalis/ touching that the elder ought not to preach in the bishop presence: is in a 
c Council Neocaesar.  Council supposed more ancient than the first Nicene/ likewise it was observed in the African churches in 
d Possido. in vita August.  Augustine's time. And that it endured until the year of the Lord 659. when there were ●rosse corruptions, tendeth to further condemnation of our Bishop's/ further out of fashion in that behalf/ then those degenerate ones. and if this Council be not to be alleged for the corruptions, then how cometh it/ that Volufianus in the year ●65/ a bishop of a corrupter estate/ (whose mass is grosser/ then that off this Council) is made so godly a man? it is well known/ that later Counsels than this/ and therefore (for the most part) corrupter: are cited off the godly learned/ as testimonial traces of the Sincerity in purer times. That the elder by this canon, willed off the bishop might preach in his presence, is untrue: only it is said/ that with the bishop's commandment he might give absolution to the penitent/ which was then (as now with us) an other thing from preaching. That there hath been no time wherein there have been more preaching bishops, than now with us: unless all be preachers/ is untrue. seeing an unpreaching bishop was wont (as M. Cal. proveth 
Instit. 4. l. ca 4. 3 se.  (to be a monster/ and cried out on in very corrupt times. If our bishops be compared with the Popish in this point: they may be thowght dutiful. but divers compared with bishops off ancient time/ may well be accounted dumb. Considering their often preaching/ the traces whereof are to be seen diversly: namely in the Council of Ments/ before by me alleged. Whereunto serveth M. Hoopers' saying/ that the church at the beginning 
upon the eight con▪ maund.  had such bishops, as did preach many godly Sermons in les time, than our bishop's horses be a bridling.  
If the rare preaching off some/ be but men's fault and not the offices: then our Archbishops whether of synistre favour or as guilty themselves/ play their parts evil. Considering that divers fault openly in this even the chief point of their office/ and have had for any thing I have heard/ good peniworthes of it. Where still appeareth how dangerous it is to the church/ to lay such weight of the church's welfare in one man. In the next divis. let the reader judge how untrue it is/ that there were bishops of 100 churches in the apostles times. the two next are answered. Whether these devised degrees/ were 
a in the praef. to the 3. ca of this tr.  steps for the Pope to climb up, let it be judged off that alleged: and namely off that in M. 
b upon Phil. ca 1.  Beza/ whose judgement is the same with mine here. how this doth not impeach the holy doctrine of the son of God, confirmed in the Nycene council: I have 
c 2. cap. of this troth. Divis. 15. pag 445. Euse. li. 1. de vit. Const.  showed That I do confess here the kind of government by elders to have ceased, or that one Bishop was over a whole diocese, before the council off Nice: is utterly untrue. The next let the reader likewise judge.  
Where he saith I repeat Basile the poor metropolitan, and Theodoret the poor bishop for want off others, let him know that this was the estate of the most apparent bishops at the Nicene council/ whom th'emperor made so much of touching their apparel vile, vile to look to: of 
a Athana. Apol. 2.  Athanasius/ which being metropolitan was poor: off 
b Costerius in the life of Ambro.  Ambrose which had no suit of men after him/ and which was in his household stuf/ and revenue/ poor: of the bishomp of 
c jeron ad Rusticum Monach.  Th●● loose/ which was poor. Yea the richest by the church/ and by the church/ best provided for: were content with that whereof they might honestly/ and soberly live. And where an other of the D. refuges is/ that they might have been rich: it is true they with their competent household/ ought to be honestly provided for/ lest the care over the flock should be drawn to things of this life. I grant also that they may be rich: but I deny that they ought to grow rich by the ministry. it ought to suffice them as 
d 1. Cor. 10  the Apostle saith to live off the gospel, not 
e jer. upon Titus. jer and Oceanum.  to riot, not to have Turrian lordly estate, not to be rich by it: as it is both expounded and confirmed of jerom.  

f Di. 16. 17 pag. 446.  Where I showed out of the ancient 
g 4. earth. 14. 15. ca Tyron c. 5  councils/ that the bishops should have a little house near the church, their household stuff after the common sort, table, and diet poor, not give themselves to feasting, get their estimation by good conversation: he answereth one of the counsels decreed that the clerks should get their living by some occupation, not meet for our days But it decreed not that the bishops/ or ministers of the word should do so/ but only Clerks: in which number were readers/ dorekepers'/ acolouthes/ exercistes and other such/ which having light charges in the church/ were fashioned in the Bishop's house to the ministry. These having a great part off their living (as shall appear) of that appointed for the bishop's house: were commanded to get the rest with their hands at such times/ as were neither hindrance unto their office/ nor their further advancement in learning: as it is to be seen in those Canons. Now if they afters dinners and suppers or others times wherein they neither executed office nor were so fit to study/ occupied themselves in some arte/ werby they gained part of their living/ and those Clerckships were needful: I see no great inconvenience in that order. At the jest in the time and country in which the D. would lurk: there is no difference. If there had been any material: he ought to have showed it. for what cause can he assign why our bishops should live more lordly than those? both living in the peace and wealth of the church/ and under Christian magistrates. They sowing also more liberally than ours/ why should they reap more scantly? especially seeing divers of their Countries were better able to fournishè them off that riot than ours is.  
Where also he would make men believe/ that they are come to this excess by Christian princes liberality, the truth is otherwise. For they to whom they succeeded in this princely estate: came to this wealth by church robbery. seeing it is easy to prove/ by divers aswell gifts of the Emperors an others/ as by statutes and prerogatives (made in favour off the church): that it was very rich in time of those bishops. Therefore that he allegeth otherwhere for the continuance of these large revenues to one bishop, jest 
Pag. 471.  our bishops (as some in augustin's time) should take occasion of pillag●● is absurd. It is high time that he were (to speak no grievous liar) unbishoped: which will take occasion of pillage/ having to live on a hundredth pound a year. And as it is observed that the 
In the book entitled the Discipline, etc.  church goods were committed unto the bishops trust/ to this end that he taking so much as would honestly maintain him/ should bestow the rest upon divers other church necessities: so the same appeareth/ in that it was 
a 4. conc. Cart. c. 32 Sozom. lib. 3. c. 9 Athanas. 2. Apol.  ordained/ that the bishop should use the church goods as things given to him to keep, and not as his own. Also by the examples of Athanasius and Augustine: where off for the first falsely accused of the turning away of the corn given to the church unto his own use: was answered by the Council assembled at the Alexandria/ that he had nothing but the travail in disposing of it. The 
b August. Epist. ●0.  other showing how the Donatists had not only their own when they returned unto the church/ but also of the church goods: addeth that the church goods were both theirs and his, seeing he was poor as well they. But if (saith he) we possess privately as muthe as may suffice us, than the church goods are none of ours, but the poors: of which goods we have the ordering, and do not challenge them as proper unto us, which is a damnable abuse,  
Further the bishops in times passed for that portion allowed unto them/ kept not only themselves and their own household: but nourished in their houses/ and at their tables/ the foorsaid Clerks: as appeareth in 
a Possido. invit. Au.  Augustine's example/ with whom they were at one table/ in one house/ and off the same charges. I leave the testimony of the 
b Roma. cap.▪ 3.  Council: that (of the church's goods divided into 4. parts) giveth one of them unto the bishop and his brethren. Which although it be corrupt/ and not of the ancienty pretend: diet in a case not in question/ and which hath confirmation of the former times/ I might a great deal better use then the D. hath done his counterfaictes. The testimony of M. 
c upon the eight command.  Hooper shall suffice: who saith that the bishop's household was the school or treasure-house off good ministers, to serve the word of God, and administration of Sacraments. Thus appeareth that the difference between our bishop's/ and them in times past/ is not as is pretended/ in that the churches were then poor, and now rich: but partly in that the goods which served before for divers necessary Uses off the church/ serve now to the lording and unnecessary stateliness off one. Partly also in that those bishops having a college of scholars in their houses/ which were the seed and store off the ministry/ nourrished them at the same trencher with them: ours (the Clerks or scholars being thrust out) devour all themselves.  
And that it is not as (he saith) in the circumstance of time and country, Even as he hath heard godly men in in times passed/ forbidding this stately pomp and wealth of bishops in other ages: so he might have read it forbidden of those of our age. 
a Cal. inst. 4. lib ca ●. sect. 17.  M. Caluin writeth thus: how the bishops in times paste rioted not in superfluous wealth: that one voice of the Synod of Aquileia. Where Ambrose was precedent (the poverty of the lords ministers is glorious) doth sufficiently declare. Verily the bishops had then riches, wherewith they might have made the church to have a Sightly port: if they had thought that that had been their trwe ornament. But when they knew that nothing is more contrary to the office of a pastor, then to shine and swell in dayintie fare, costly apparel, many servants, princely palaces: they followed and embraced humility and modesty, yea poverty it self, which Christ consecrated amongst his ministers. And after: was it meet that they should follow the magnificence of Princes in the number off waiting men, bravery of houses, costliness of fare and apparel: whose life ought to have been a singular example of frugality, modesty, continency and humility? how much did this abhor from their office: whom the eternal decree of God forbiddeth to desire filthy lucre, and to be content with a simple kind of living: alleging to that purpose the canons of the Carthage Council/ which I have set down: and there to calling the bishops of these times/ which notwithstanding the D. saith were for those times.  
He might also have read off the godly learned with us: which condemn it flatly/ in our both country/ and age. For the knowledge whereof: let the reader resort unto the seventh Article of Master 
a M. Fox in the book off M. Tindal, etc.  Barnes. Likewise to that 
b Upon the 8. command.  Master Hooper saith that the fourth part of the bishopric were enough for the bishop: and that the magistrates which suffer such abuse off those goods be culpable of the fault. Further/ to that an 
c M. Elm.  other calleth them to the tenth part of their bishopric: when he biddeth them come down from their thousands, and take them to their hundreds. And if it be so as M. Hooper saith: it is so far from that this abundance is commodious unto the common wealth, and honour to Prince (as he 
d 473.  other where saith) that it draweth the wrath of God upon the Prince/ and consequently upon the common wealth. Beside that/ the D. can show no one point wherein it is honourable to the Prince: but only barely affirmeth it. And it is manifest that it being incommodious unto the church: it must needs be damagable unto the state: the good and Godly wealth whereof/ is the Prince's honour.  
Where he saith riches, fair houses, and costly furniture be no hindrances to a godly man, to do his duty: whiles he say a bishop/ and by reason/ off his ministry/ he speaketh not to purpose. if so: than it is before confuted/ and more at large purswed off the foresaid book of discipline. That Hypocrisy and pride, lieth hid under the name of poverty, is from the matter/ not only because the poverty which the Council speaketh of/ is none such/ that had not sufficient and honest maintenance (as may appear in 
e Possid. in vit. August.  Augustine's manner off living/ which was at the making off the Carthage Canons): but also because they spoke not off a pretended poverty/ but off that which (meet for the estate of a bishop) should be no further in show/ then in deed. unless it were better for the church/ that this pride lay hid: then to have so many witnesses of it/ in their houses hanged. Their tables and cupboards spread/ their garments died with it/ and their manner of life both at home and abroad proclaiming it. He saith also that bishops were wealth then: because feasting was forbidden them. In deed they were wealthy stewards/ but poor lords: great Bailiffs/ but small proprietaries This he might well have gathered/ which is true: that even then/ there were which (not content with an honest meintenance) aspired to further magnificence in their houses/ household stuf/ and far/ then was sitting for bishops: and that under colour of getting estimation to their office. which appeareth both in the for said canons made for that purpose: and in 
f Ad Nepotianum.  Jerome.  
Where he saith that the doctrine of the Gospel is much more purely professed by ours, than it was by the old Bishops: and for proof allegeth here these councils/ and ᵍ otherwhere/ that 
opa. 472.  almost all the most ancient fathers, yea the most of the ancientest bishops believed an abode upon earth a thousand years after the rising again: that almost all the Greek both bishops and writers and the most part of the Latins, were spot with free will, merits, invocation of Saints, etc. Where first let it be observed/ how rough (as in other places before) be is with the old writers/ when it serveth for his purpose: and what equity there is in this man which crieth out/ if I do but tread as it where off one of their heels/ when he at one stroke almost all/ at once/ by condemning them off error in the matter of justification (the foundation of religion) and off free will (which he ʰ saith is likewise) stricketh them deadly in the head. Secondly 
● pag. 83.  observe/ that he doth it untruly. For beside that he is not able to show the most part of both Greek and Latin moste ancient writers after Papias, infected with that error of a 1000 years: to say that the most part of the most ancient bishops were so/ is a notable slander. And seeing that the writers speak doubtfuly of merits/ invocation off Saints/ and free will/ sometime for/ and sometime against them: likewise seeing that divers things under their names are none of theirs/ but heritiks/ which partly corrupted their books/ partly set forth other under their credit: they deserved to be somewhat more gently handled. And yet these are they forsooth/ whose authority is the best argument in divinity: 
pag. 200.  and from which although we appeal to the scriptures/ and in appealing cry in the D. ears/ yet he is deaf/ and will not hear. But I think from henceforth we shall hear no more of Tertullian saith it etc. unless reason be annexed/ and that out of the word off God.  
Thirdly it is to be observed/ how unequally the comparison is made. for in steed that he should have compared the corruptions of the bishops of one province/ with the corruptions of ours: to make our bishop's Son to shine/ he matcheth it with the cioudes of errors/ assembled out of all the world/ and that by the space off 450. years/ as is to be seen. To this cosideration 
pag. 473.  doth pertain/ the erors of some before noted/ the unsincere preaching of some others/ partly by allegories/ wherein they are as fond as the fondest of the ancient: partly by vain pomp and ostentation/ that was not in them/ which unless they were studied in all good letters/ yet in their homilies to the people/ behaved themselves as if they had known nothing but jesus Christ. Lastly so many of them as shall be found to maintain all therrors in this pack of the D. I dare will pronounce that they are deplier plonged in error then any of those old bishop's/ which keeping the foundation erred in the rest of the building whereof (upon that alleged off both parts) let the judgement be the readers. What their honesty of life is, which is another point wherein he compareth ours with the elder bishops/ I will not further 
Pag. 473  meddle: especially seeing that whether there life be good or bad can hardly be hidden. although for any imperfections he showeth that way in the fathers: he might as well have made ours equal with th'apostles themselves/ amongst whom there was contention as amongst the old bishops. That the 5. Canon of the 2. Council of 
Conc. Tie run 3 can 5.  Tyron he stumbled one is against me, and my likes which leave our calling, is from the purpose/ and untrue as hath been showed. That my collector deceived me in the council, because it is neither the first nor second, is mere trifling: seeing my allegation is maintained/ if it be (as it is in deed) the third: this fault being by all likelihood some others than mine/ Considering that I found it truly noted in my paper book from whence I took it. I may rather say that his deceived him/ and was herein somewhat to well skilled in Greek: which for Hierapolis a City in Phrygia/ whereof Papias was bishop/ told him that he was of jerusalem. 
pag. 473. Diuis. 18. pag. 447. Cart. c 34   
Where I compared the council which decreed that no bishop sitting in any place should suffer a minister or elder to stand▪ with the behaviour of our bishops towards the ministers: he staggereth on this and that side. But his drift is that it is the bishops right/ that they should stand and he sit: wherein he accuseth the council off giving it away from them. Then he will have it in their discretion, that it may (belike) serve for a brake to break proud stomachs. But what if the bishop being proud/ the ministers be humble: surely by this reason it should be rather in their discretion/ to make the bishop sit or stand before them: For they often beaten with poverty/ learned humility: which he through sudden wealth/ (if he had any before) may easily forget. If there be such high minded ministers: it is meet their pride be otherwise corrected/ then by this uncanonicall crouching both to blow up the bishop's heart in pride/ and to draw the rest with their ministery into con●●mpt: whilst both equal in office/ and sometime superior in gifts/ they have harder entertainment of them/ then many of the better sort of Servants have at the hands of their masters. So that where they are by the law of God/ the bishop's fellows: the poor ministers think them selves well dealt with/ if they may be admitted for companion of his servants: as if my lord bishop only were Shepard over the people/ and all the rest were Swinardes'. I omit that some of them are content that a justice of peace/ yea of Quorum, (as I have heard) stand before them with their caps in hand: which how near it is to despising off powers/ whereof the Apostle speaketh/ let all judged. 
jud. 8. v.   
To that alleged off the train of waiting men before and after, condemned in all bishops in the person of Samosatenus 
Divis 19 pag. 447. Euseb. 7. li. ca 30.  he answereth/ he was condemned for having Soldiers, and for walking the streets. which is frivolous. For there was no more likelihood of a captain in him; then in our bishops/ saving that where he was waited upon with spears/ peradventure according to the serving men's fashion off the country: ours are followed with sword and bucklers. He is generally there spoken against for his pomp: as that he was like unto men in worldly dignity, and made him a throne or pulpit like a Prince. And for his men/ not only because they had spears but because they were in great number. Now if this were damnable in a bishop to be like a ptince or worldly potentate: it is manifest that our bishops for their train/ be under the same condemnation. Gregory also although 
Ruffin. 1. lib. ca 19 Athana. Apol. 2.  not in the same chap. of Ruffin/ entered as well as George, and before him/ with a troop of men into the bishopric off Alexandria/ out of which Athanasius was wrongfully put: and that is with other things reproached him/ unless they were lent by the governors. He saith it appeareth by these examples/ that bishops had riches and authority: which is absurd/ seeing himself confesseth/ and the story maketh mention/ that they enjoyed this by unjust means/ and church robbery. I grant the bishop was steward off great abundance/ but not to his own use.  
That every teacher in the church was called Rabbi: those 
Diuis. 20. pag. 448.  know/ which have any skill in the tongue from whence it was taken. So that what honour the D. can draw to the ministry by that word/ groweth no more to the bishop then to all other teachers: and it contained a profession of obedience, in respect off those that were taught/ not in respect of one teacher towards an other. If the Evangelists had turned it Lord which I corrected in the second edition) yet the degree of superiority signified by this word Lord must be very small. seeing it was used by a women off honest 
joh. 20. 1●  estate/ to one whom she supposed no other but a gardener. Where therefore he would prove that the word Lord given to Athanasins by the Synod signifieth some high degree and authority/ because the Emperor and his nobles were called only lords without other addition: he trifleth/ seeing it is manifest by that alleged/ that with them being a comen title almost to the basest sort of men/ it had no such honour shut in it as he pretendeth/ but was great or small/ according to the persons it was applied unto. So that or ever that word will help him/ he must show that the bishops than were set in great outward dignity.  
Where also he would make the reader believe/ that the Synod called Athanasius Lord of the priests of Alexandria: it is but to abuse him: when that word (as the greek) is given to any of mean estate/ and is as much with us as Sir And not with us alone/ but in diverse other countries/ which speak so to any of mean condition: yet the D. turneth it always my Lord Whereby he lordeth those/ which have no lordship to maintain them nor man to wait upon them: yea (as I have showed) thus we shall have my Lord gardenkeper: than which what can be more ridiculous. And that it was not the Counsels meaning/ to make Athanasius Lord of the elders in Alexandria▪ appeareth manifestly by that I have alleged off the elders of Alexandria: which call him their fellow minister without any other title. Wherein they should be too unmannerly and undutiful/ if he were (as it seemeth the D. would bear us in hand) their Lord Which dallying may yet better appear/ in that Alexander bishop of Alexandria writing to Athanasius/ when he was but deacon/ or elder at the most: writeth. To Athanasius Lord and beloved son: So that if Dominus must needs be a Lord: then my Lord bishop must by the same reason that he would be called Lord/ call the elders or Deacons/ lords likewise. So there shall be Lord Bishop/ Lord Elder/ Lord Deacon: which as it is ridiculous/ so it tuneth not with the bishops note off honour/ which the D. fighteth for. And this is also answer to my Lord Paulinus: beside that Lord is not referred unto the pronoun yowres, as if the council had said Athanasius was the elders Lord And if it were/ yet if he will thereupon conclude/ any superiority of him above th'elders of his church: he must by the same reason say/ that one simple bishop had superiority over an other/ seeing Eusebius bishop/ calleth Paulinus his fellow bishop his Lord: which is absurd and condemned off himself.  
Now I have showed him how bishops were called most honourable 
Theod li. 5. cap. 8.  Lords, he hath gotten two or three places where are found titles to the same effect: which is idle/ seeing that was confessed. To my answer that Lord with them was no other title, then might be given to a man off mean degree: he saith/ most honourable Lord was only given to those in great authority, which is only said/ and may easily be confuted/ in that Alexander bishop of Alexandria the Metropolitan city/ writing to all the church ministers/ not bishops only/ called them most honourable fellow 
Socr. li. ●. cap. 6.  ministers. That he saith it was not grudged at then that bishops were called by the same titles, that Princes: is very plain language/ and needeth no commentary to show the meaning/ saving that he durst not utter all. For if he would have applied his place: he should have said/ it was not grudged at then that bishops were called by more lofty titles than th' Emperors: seeing the title he presseth for the bishops/ is most precious Lords, and the Emperor as he saith was only called Lord  
That the house off salutations/ was within the bounds of the 
Diuis. 21. pag 449.  church appeareth not in Theodoret. His reason/ because the houses pertaining to the bishopric were near the church, is weak. For unless all houses pertaining to the bishopric were near: yet there might be some near/ not pertaining thereto. Howbeit if it were belonging to the church/ in that word there/ is no such note of excellency/ whereby it deserveth to be the porters lodge of our bishop's palaces. To that off the bishops bestowing the church goods upon loitering serving men, which should be bestowed upon the universities, and poor both ministers, and other: he saith/ and only saith that their number off serving men tendeth to the defence of the realm, honour off the prince, and their own good education. off the prince's honour: it is answered. strength to the realm, they can not be: seeing the men should be/ although they were not nourished by the bishop: especially seeing the bishop's house/ is an unfit school to train up to warfare. And if the former necessities were helped/ and it thowght meet that the church goods should serve the realm that way: all see that it would rise to more profit/ if some were nourished of them/ in profession of a Soldier/ then that in waiting upon the white Rochet they should rather become white liuered/ then fashioned/ for that service. Beside that the bishop's countenance being so profitable as it is made/ and placed a great part in this suit off men: it is manifest that his pomp holding divers at home/ which otherwise might be in the field weakeneth rather than strenghneth the realm. For the education they get under them: the corrupt religion of some/ the want of catechizing others ignorant in the principles of religion/ the lewdness of divers/ the idleness of the most part/ which is in the eyes of all give to plentiful a confutation of that part. wherein let the reader observe/ how unmeet they be to govern dioceses/ and Provinces/ which have their proper houses so evil ordered: especially seeing 
a 1. Tim. 3 ●.  the apostle will not trust him with one parish/ which ruleth not his own house well. And the truth is/ that the church ministry is of that travail and care/ that it will not suffer the bishop's gifts (be they never so great) to be spent in the houshoulding and masterlike charge off such a number: which was no doubt one cause why both the scripture/ and the old Canons/ shut out the bishops from this pomp.  
Where he saith/ the universities, ministers, and poor may otherwise be provided for: when that is brought to pas/ and in such sort as a sufficient number ●f learned men may be nourced up to furnish both the church of their ministers/ and comen wealth of her magistrates/ the overplus may (as M. 
c Upon the 8. command.  Hoopers' counsel is) go to maintenance of Soldiers, or other necessary uses/ advised off by the common wealth. That the canons brought against the bishop's pomp, reach to university colleges, forasmuch as there were none such then, as we have now, is untrue: considering that with other universities every bishop's house was (as hath been showed) a college of Students in divinity: and it is otherwise unsufficient. For I reason not against their pomp/ because it was not used in times passed, but because it was forbidden. And if he can show/ the revenues of Colleges forbidden by the Godly counsels: than it had have somewhat he saith. Ad also that if the pomp and riot of Colleges/ werelike the bishops: it were likewise worthy/ to be spoken against. Jerome/ cited against the pomp of bishops receiveth answer/ that he spoke against the abuse and not those. Jerome's words be these: let the readeriudge of his meanig. it is 
jerom. ad Nepot.  a foul shame, that before the gates off poor and crucified Christ, Who also eat of other men's meat, the Consul's sergeants and Guard should wait: and that the ruler of the Province, should dine better at thy house then in the palace. But if thou pretend to do these things, to th'end to beg for the poor: the Secular judge will give more to a church man which keepeth measure and is frugal, then to one which is rich: and reverence more thy holiness, than thy riches, Or if the ruler be such, that he will not harken to the churchmen ctaving for the poors relief, but when he is amongst the cups: I will gladly want such a benefit: and beg off Christ in stead of the judge, who is better and sooner able to help then the judge. I omit that he inveighethe against a church man/ which poor before/ becometh rich by the church: and living very homely before/ after useth delicate far/ with other things to that end.  
Whether this were one cause off the bishops stately pomp 
Diuis. 22. pag. 450.  that (certain noble and rich men rece●●ed to the ministry, and living somewhat like their former estates) others assayed to be like unto them: whether an other cause were for that it being 
Diuis. 23. 24. 25. pag. 451.  amongst the heathen priests before it came into the church of the Christians it was (as divers other corruptions) taken of them by imitation: whether a third and more higher cause thereof were/ that the bravery of the pourpled whore of Rome might both easilier take her seat and faster hold it, whilst other bishops were made somewhat suitable unto her, which she could not have done if (other bishops left in the simplicity wherein God had appointed them) she had been as an owl amongst the rest of the birds: I say whether these three/ be amongst the causes off bringing in the bishop's pomp into the church/ I leave to the reader's judgement. Considering that the D. beside begging/ and dissembling the matter/ which I go about to prove: hath nothing. That Christians might aswell be thowght to have followed Maximinus in building churches, as in sufficiently providing for the ministers: is to simple/ seeing we deny him not sufficient provision. But if he esteem nothing sufficient, unless he be maintained as a lord: let him learn off S. Paul/ what is sufficient/ and so he shall (I doubt not) fall from his 1000 to a 100 unto these three 
1. Tim. 6. 6. 8. upon 4. Ephes.  causes off the bishoplike stateliness I will here add the fourth: worthy to be observed. M. Bucer showing the incommodities which came/ by that the bishops were received to bear civil offices. saith: after they began to occupy the place off princes: they challenged also to themselves their pomp and bravery. So let the reader judge how true it is that I said: that our archbishops, bishops, etc. besides the names, have almost nothing commenwith those of elder times: and how if the old bishops were alive, they would not know one another. For that they would think ours princes, and ours would esteem them as hedge prinestes. What I allow, of the old Canons, and what I disallow, although 
Diuis. 26. pag. 452.  he dissemble: yet he knoweth better than he would/ I having at large declared it in this Tractate.  
The first divis. I o●●it. In the next/ to that the Apostle called 
CAP. VI Pag. 454. 1. Cor. 4. 1.  the corinth. to a moderate estimation of the ministers (mean between contempt and to much exalting them) upon occasion that the false apostles were to much lifted up: he saith/ it was a partial affection to wards their teachers not in respect off any title, which is frivolous, for if it be denied generally/ that they should not be so mounted: then the way is stopped against titles and offices, and other means whatsoever/ whereby that may grow. Beside that the D. is afraid as appeareth by his answer to be brought unto a moderation and mean between contempt and excessive estimation. Where I show/ that as the false apostles pomp in preaching, lifting them up above the faithful ministers, caused the faithful ministers to be contemned: so the pomp of our bishops, lifted up above the rest off the pastors, to be a ready way to bring their ministry out off credit: and that as that gave occasion to the Corinth's to say, I hold off such a teacher, etc. so this giveth occasion to say, I will believe my Lord Bishop or my lord Archbishop, whatsoever our parson say: for they be wise men and learned: I say to all this beside wandering and unlikely slanders there is not a word: seeing I trust/ it appeareth to all/ that we give no occasion by any pomp that the people in magnifying of us should condemn others.  
The next division I leave to the reader. Where against the 
Diuis. 4. pag. 455.  D. slander off the Admonitions intent to take away princes, I showed that his practice against us, is the same with the pharisees against our Saviour Christ, which being rubbed for their ambition accused him as no friend of Cesar. He answereth that we are not Christ, which is ridiculous/ that the case is not like, whereof let the reader judge: seeing he is (as they were) honour pricked. Whether our Archbishop devil as far asunder almost, from the civil magistrate, as Rome and jerusalem: let the reader judge off that alleged. likewise what a cunning stargaser the D. is/ which saw in the star of my forehead that the admonition intended the overthrow off the civil magistrate. The next of the canon of Antioch Council, is answered, but where I show that that Canon is not like to be justifiable considering that it sought falsely, credit off the name off the apostles: he answereth not. Unless this be his answer: that it is the natural Canon of the apostles. And in deed his words so sound/ for thus he saith. That canon of the apostles is repeated in this council: as divers of the Nice be repeated off other counsels. Which how shamefully it is spoken: may appear off that we have before disputed off the antiquity of the metropolitan. How dangerously to the overthrow off our faith/ whilst we are borne in hand/ that there be canons of the apostles not contained in the canonical scripture: all that have judgement/ may understand/ and it is in part 
* Tract. 1.  before declared. I omit that it is clean contrary to his doctrine of the archbishop: whereby he maketh him an officer/ changeable at the will of the Prince. For if that be th'apostles Canon: there is no ministry in the hold scripture/ which hath better evidence for an unchangeable perpetuity/ then it.  
That M. Bucer is wholly for us in this point: I refer the reader 
Divi. 6. pag. 457.  to that 
a Divi. 15. pag. 367.  before written. The place alleged here would have made little for him: if he had not kept his custom. For where Bucer speaketh off obedience to be given by the bishops to the metropolitan: he hath left out these words after their manner. By which cunning/ he may prove the Acthiopian affair: man because he hath white teeth. For all see: that M. Bucer by these words/ delayed the authority of the metropolitanship. And if they were not plain enough: yet others in the same place are. that the patriarchs were set over the metropolitans, as they 
upon the Ephes.  over the bisho▪ but that neither, could do any thing save only admonish those over whom they were set: and if they obeyed not, to complain of them to the synod. After he condemneth/ that the patriarchs took unto them the ordination of the bishops nigh them: and by means thereof, by little and little got some jurisdiction over those bishops, and their churches. So appeareth/ that if there be any difference here (touching these offices) between us/ and M. Bucer: it is only/ that where we affirm it good/ that the presidentship should be chosen at every meeting/ as that which cometh nearer the apostles example/ and more safe against Tyranny: M▪ Bucer may seem to make it a standing and continual office/ set ●● in one man. For as touching his authority/ wherein the chief point of the controversy lieth: it findeth as small grace with M: Bucer/ as with us.  
Whatsoever is here/ is 
e Diu. 42. pag. 390.  answered: saving the contrariety assigned 
Diuis. 7. pag. 458.  between this/ a Apostle was above an Evangelist, and that there was chiefrie even amongst the apostles/ in that one laboured more/ and had more excellent gifts than another: which how manifest an argument it is that the archbishop hath rob him off all sense let the reader judge. Saving also that he signifieth that the difference between the apostles must be in authority not in excellency of gifts or labours. Considering that there was amongst them in those points a most perfect equality. Which how absurd it is may be considered in that some had the gift of continency/ which other some had not/ some travailed with their hands for their living/ which other did not: and in that S. Paul/ is said expressly to have laboured more than they all. To the next beside bore affirmations 
1. Cor. 15. 9  and slanders oft repeated: he answereth nothing. To the ninth: I answer not.  
That the greek word 2. Gal. 2. signifieth for the most part 
Diuis. 10. pag. 461. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  to seem: can not be denied. Whether there be any necessity to change this usual and ordinary signification in that place: I leave to the reader. seeing first the same word in that chapter/ is twice so turned: where the same both matter/ and persons are spoken off. seeing also it is confessed/ by M. Beza which corrected it: that the apostle speaketh not according to his own but according to the sense off his adversaries. Thirdly/ seeing the cause which moved Erasmus and M. Beza to depart from that translation for that there is nothing joined to declare, wherein that seeming and appearance should be) is not so urging. For S. Paul useth oft such short/ and cut speeches: which are to be supplied by other places off his: as M. Beza himself showeth in the same chap. vers. 6. I omit the number of interpreters/ which have followed the old in this behalf. Howbeit I confess/ that if I had known that I had in this point to do with the Geneva/ M. Bezas'/ and Erasmus translation/ and Budies' authority: I would (for reverence off their learning) have use▪ an easier word in dissenting. neither will I strive about it/ wit●●he D. it making little either off or on/ to the matter in hand: seeing the reason (alleged by the adm. and maintained by me) standeth still against the archbishop. For if Saint Paul/ were in nothing inferior unto Saint Peter/ one of those chief there mentioned: and if the making of S. Peter/ to have authority over Saint Paul/ be the overthrow of S. Paul's argument: than it followeth/ that thadm. aptly alleged that place against the archbishop. Neither can it be alleged/ to prove any degree of honour the in ministry, not only because the price which the Galatheans had off those by suggestion of the false apostles/ was excessive in that they preferred those three before S. Paul: but also for that off men in the same degree and authority one may justly be honoured more than an other/ in respect of gifts more excellent in him then in the rest.  
Where I showed/ that our Sa. Christ's calling is avowed 
Divi. 11. pag. 462. Heb. 5. 5. 6  just because it was contained in scripture: he saith the apostle only showed by scripture that he intruded not himself but was called off God. Where the testimonies put as causes off this that he did not glorify himself: must be also causes of his vocation/ and that in such sort that if those and such like testimonies had not been/ his vocation could not have been justified. where he saith none can justify his calling if it were not lawful without such a personal testimony as our Sau. Christ had: we press not all the circumstances. There being no more in that kind of office/ but he alone: the testimony of it/ must needs be personal. It shall be sufficient for him: to show that the Archbishops have the same testimony of the word/ which the bishops or pastors. To the next I answer not: In the next/ there is nothing but bore affirmations/ answered 
a Diu. 31. pag. 380. Divis. 33. Pag. 381.  before.  

b Diu. 14. pag. 465.  To that alleged that if all the church were in one Province, and one over them all in travailing with an archbishop he should bring forth a pope: he answereth/ that can not be, the church being scattered throughout the world. Which I grant/ having respect unto God's election/ and calling hidden from us: but that the church established in a visible and apparent from/ may not (which God fo●●id) be brought into one land/ I hitherto hear no reason, he saith further/ that the church after the ascension being in jerusalem only, if it had had one bishop, should by my reason likewise have had a pope: which is untrue. For we join with the pastor/ (and that in equal authority of government) th'elders of the church: condemning all monarchical government in the pastor. The rest is 
c Diu 32 pag. 381. Diuis. 41. pag. 389.  answered. The next/ is 
d Divi. 33. pa. 381.  answered before. 
e di. 1617. pag. 467.  Accused for charging the adm. to have used the papists reasons, he saith he may well do it: but reason he can show none. He denieth that he would prove one archbishop over a province by one king over a realm: yet beside he flatly 
f Diu. 41. pag. 389.  affirmeth that the form of government in the church must be according to that of the common wealth, driven to the wall/ it is his common refuge/ that by the same reason we east away Archbishops, we may likewise depose kings. His whole answer almost here/ is coloured of divers divisions before: where he hath 
a Diu 43. pag. 390. Diuis. 50. pag. 396. Diuis. 70. pag 417.  reply. And yet such is his forehead/ that although he have here set before me a charger of Colewories: yet for answering them with repetition off one line/ in as few words as if I had only referred him to the former treatise/ he shameth not to say/ that I use nothing almost but repetitions. 
b Diu. 18. pag. 469.  To that alleged out of Caluin/ that the church doth clean one part unto an other under our Sau. Christ's dominion, according to the order and form of policine, which he hath prescribed, and therefore not by a bishop of a diocese or archbishop, as those which he prescribed not: he answereth/ that he speaketh off the spiritual government, and not of the external. whereby he maketh Caluin a trifling disputer. For the Papists which will have the pope a ministerial head under christ/ Confess that he alone governeth inwardly and secretly by his spirit: but that their pope is a means/ whereby he doth it. Therefore Cal. in saying that/ that is done by the order and form of policy prescribed of God: stopped up that corner against them. And beside that it will be hard for him to show/ that the inward working of God by his spirit is called an order and form of policy: let him answer where that order and form of policy of the lords secret working with his spirit/ is prescribed: seeing the work thereof/ is as the voice of the wind which we hearing can 
john. 3. 8.  not tell from whence it cometh nor whet●●● it will: and seeing the lord commanding his ministers to do their dwtie/ reserveth to himself the manner and order/ how and when he will work inwardly. Secondly he answereth that this policy of our Bishop and Archbishop is prescribed, although not particularly expressed in his word: as if the force off this word prescribed were not more than/ contemned/ and asmuch as his particularly expressed. But I have 
a d 70. 71 pag. 4. 7.  showed/ that he requireth also/ that all church officers be expressed in the word: and what expressed meaneth is before 
b ●. Tract.  observed. The reader to make up his mouth with/ and as it were for a ban quetting dish. hath the next whole chapter of repetitions. which is 
c in the 2. and 3. ca of this Tract.  answered/ and so is the 
d di. 16. 17 pag. 446  next unto it.  
Thus we are (by the grace of god) come/ to an end off this treatise/ wherein let the reader judge/ whether it hath been proved that the offices of archbishops and archdeacon's be unlawful/ that they came not into the church 300. years after the ascension of our Sa. Christ: that there names are likewise unlawful by the word/ forbidden by ancient counsels/ not to be found in any ancient writing before 400. years approached. Further whether that every congregation/ ought to have a bishop: that one only may have two or more: that they ought all to have like titles and authority. Saving that in their meetings for order's sake one by consent of the rest governeth that action/ in such sort as is declared. That all these points off the bishop have ground of the word of God/ and most of them showed to have remained some time after th'apostles/ and the traces long after. Finally/ whether that even the elder Bishops when they were declined from the sincerity of god's ordinance/ and the archbishops and archdeacon's which he never ordained: were much more tolerable than ours: as those whose authority was without comparison les/ and pomp. none at all.    

 

  

  

   

through desire off making no great change off the order laid forth by the Doctor/ whereby the reader should be much troubled in collation of our books: and partly for that my papers went so soon to the print● whereby I could not correct that myself afterwards misliked at is come to pass that there are divers things wherein by order, it might have been, better provided for memory. Which, I have partly endeavoured to help, by this direction: whereby it shall not be uneasy, to find any of the principal points, contained in this book.  
THe scripture is a perfect rule off all actions/ which can fall into man's life/ aswell in defining things/ unnariable/ as in giving rules/ whereby things variable by circumstance/ may be compassed page lvij. etc. Whether refer that/ wherein is showed what of Moses law remaineth/ page xciij. Likewise that the Acts of th'apostles/ be necessary for us to follow page clu As appeareth namely/ in the government of the church disputed throughout the whole book: and in that community they used/ which is not now anabaptistical cc. viii. Hither also refer/ that it is the virtue of a good law: to leave as little as may be/ in the discretion of the judge xciiij. Also that it is one thing to be expressed: and an other/ to be commanded in the scripture xlv.  
Whereupon the argument of authority of the scripture/ is good 43. 81: But nawght from men: especially in divine matters/ xviij. and xlvij. Whether refer that the Godly writers and holy martyr died in error vj. whereof the example brought by me off free will/ is handled 54. an other brought by the D. of the millenaries unless he in part/ slandereth the old fathers in that behalf delij.  

Discipline Civil.  
THe magistrate aught to be severer/ in punishing offences under the gospel: then under the law cxj cxviij. Neglecters off the word/ be punishable by the word lxx. The law off capital punishments / remaineth xcviij. Contemners off the word/ aught to be put to death lxviij. Murderers cij. Incestuous/ and adulterous persons c. The punishing off the breaches of the second Table by death/ and not of the first: is to begin/ at the wrong end cxvij.   

Discipline Ecclesiastical.  
THe Ecclesiastical discipline is prescribed in the word/ as the doctrine ccccxl. Aswell under the gospel as under the law ibid. Amplified by comparison of the Ark/ Tabernacle/ Temple ccccxliiij. Confirmed by examples of David/ and Solomon/ which attempted nothing in the church government/ without the express word of God/ ccccxliiij. Also/ off others/ lxxxuj.  
That the form thereof/ ought not to be always/ according to the form off the common wealth cxxx. clix. ccxcviij. dciiij. That it is not always convenient/ that the form of the comen wealth/ should beframed to the form off the church government ccxxvij. That the church government/ is one of the three marks of the church liij. That it is safely taken/ from the apostles times: and dangerously from the first 500 years after them. That the external government of the church/ is evil distinguished from the spiritual. That/ it hindereth not the civil discipline ij.   

Calling.  
THe callings vn●● the ministry/ are defined off in the word of God. For that 〈◊〉 ● gifts necessary for the government of the church/ fall into the offices prescribed in it 462. Where are rehearsed the proper gifts/ whereby they are severed amongst themselves. This is also showed/ by that it is not lawful/ to diminish those the lord hath set: and therefore not to add unto them cccclxiiij. Likewise by the demand the pharisees made unto john ccccxxxuj.  
A calling lawful/ and yet extraordinary. page xxx●●j. The apostles/ prophets/ and Evangelists are evil distinguished/ by the D. cccvij. There can be none of these functions now without an extraordinary calling ccciij. The same could not be a bishop/ Evangelist and Apostle at once cccxviij. Epaphroditus was no Apostle/ in that sense that S. Peter was ccciiij. An Evangelist could not without his fault be made a bishop much less could an Apostle 321. Timothe was an Evangelist and no bishop cccxij. The abusing off the writers/ both old/ and nue: to prove Apostles/ prophets/ and Evangelists ordinary ministers cccxxvij. What manner a men they were/ which after those sent forth into the whole world/ called themselves Apostles cccviij. Hereupon/ we refuse the callings of Archbishop otherwise called Metropolitan/ and our kind of bishop/ Archdeacon/ and deane: as those which taken even for the very principal church officers/ have no ground in the word of God Proved/ in that they are contained in neither of the places off the Ephesians/ or Corinthians/ where all the ministries Ecclesiastical are described/ ccc●xlix. ccccliij. Whether refer/ that the archbishop and bishop are nue ministries ccccxxxviij. Likewise that the first step/ to this kind off bishopric/ began at Alexandria: and not in Zion or jerusalem/ and that it was after the Apostles times dxlviij. Also the first step of pre-eminence to an archbishoprik/ over many bishops: was but a little before the Nicene Council cccclxxxv.  
That both this bishop and archbishop/ had their beginning by bore custom: and not by the institution of God/ cccclxxxv. dlxviij. These two last points being expressly showed off the bishops/ and archbishops: may be easily understanded to be true in the Archdeacon's/ and deans by that dj. dxxxuj. diiij. It is further showed off the archbishop that h● was not (in steed of Archflamins) instituted by S. Peter (as 〈◊〉 pretended) cccclxix. Where is showed that there were no Ar●●●lamins under the Roman Empire cccclxxj. not in England/ especially in the time supposed cccclxxij. We refuse them also/ for that they exercise dominion. Forbidden precisely unto Ecclesiastical persons 20. Mat. and 1▪ Pet. 5. ccccxxj. ccccxxxj. Declared in the example off S. Peter which had no authority given him above the rest off the Apostles/ but was in such respect equal dcvij.  
Here are confuted/ the ends off instituting this authority. Whereof one is pretended/ to assemble the Synods/ and to propound the matters dcxij. dlxxxij. Whereto belongeth/ that of those otherwise equal/ it is meet (to avoid confusion) that one by choice of the rest/ should rule the action: and that it is not meet/ that this should be perpetual ccccxxij. Which is con●●●ed by the example off S. Peter/ chosen thereto by the Apostles/ and not perpetually dcxcvij: made plain by the examples of the elder/ and french churches now dxi●x. The other pretended cause is to remedy contentions ccccxlv●ij▪ dxlix. dl. dlxxi●ij dlxxxij. Here also is showed/ that he is the cause of contention dlxxix. Which being showed in the bishop and archbishop: pertaineth in part also/ to the archdeacon/ and deane.  
Further against this dominion serveth/ that they are fellow servants/ fellow brethren in office ccccxx viii. dxlv.  
Also/ for that order/ and degrees/ stand without them ccccxxvij dcij. This is further declared by comparison of the elder archbishops/ and bishops with ours dxciiij. dcxliiij. Namely of Cyprians dxluj. and jeroms dlxviij. Likewise of the elder Archdeacon's/ with ours dij. And deans with ours diiij.  
That the Nicene Council/ is far from maintaining/ the authority of our metropolitan dlxij. So are the Counsels of Antioch/ and Arles dlxv. That Epiphanius Archbishop/ stood not in authority: but in excellency of gifts dlx.  
Here upon we condemn (as in all Ecclesiastical ministers) so in these four/ all lofty titles: as those which are annexed to dominion. Whereunto pertaineth: that names are not always indifferent 408 And first/ the giving high titles of civil honour: as those which put a differens/ ●● between the civil and ecclesiast. officer ccccuj. ccccxxiij: As forbidden▪ 〈◊〉 precisely 22. Luk. cccciiij/ namely/ that the bishop/ Archbishop's/ ●nd (by the same reason) deans/ aught not to be called lords/ having regard to the use of our country ccccvij. dclv. Also that the title of Prince/ part of the Archbishops/ and Archdeacon's name: breaketh upon the possession of the civil magistrate ccccvij.  
Secondly/ in Ecclesiastical titles/ we deny unto them to be called heads of the churches. Where is showed first/ that that title agreeth unto no simple creature. The causes whereof are ccccxij. The absurdities which follow the giving of it to any other then to our San. Christ/ ccccxj. The approbation of writers nue and old that he is only head ccccxiij. The same showed off the name off Archbishop/ cccix. Hitherto belongeth that it was not so soon in the west parts/ as in the East/ ccccxciiij That it is not showed to have been given to any (but with condemning off it) in any allowed writer until about 380. years/ ccccxcv. Whereto pertaineth/ that nue writers/ giving it to ministers of elder times/ are showed to have done it according to the times/ wherein/ not whereof they wrote/ cccclxxxj. ccccxcv. Likewise/ that the name metropolitan/ is not off the same value with archbishop. cccclxxxvij. And that it is not showed to have been/ before the Council off Nice ccccxciiij. Also that the Counsels of Carthage/ holden about ccl. and 400. years: do forbidden this name ccccxcviij. Finally hither pertaineth/ that off the counterfeit canons/ off the Nicene Council handled cccclxxxviij. And the counterfeit book of Ambrose/ which mentioneth the archbishop ccccxcjs. Likewise the name of Arch deacon/ is not showed/ until about 400. years/ page 502. Nor off the deane/ until about the same time/ page diiij.  
Furthermore/ upon this that dominion is forbidden them: is also forbidden/ their other pomp of lije. Whereof unto the three causes assigned in my former book xcviij: Is added the fourth 100L of this book. This is showed by comparison of the elder bishops with ours in their apparel/ houses/ household stuf/ far/ train off men dcxlxij/ etc. Further that the most part off the riches/ wherewith this pomp is maintained: is the comen treasure off the church/ for maintenance of the ministers which want/ off the poor/ and off the universities: and th' … in this point/ they have succeeded unto those/ which got the 〈◊〉 sacrilege dcxlix.  
Further we refuse the archbishop and archdeacon: for that they have larger charges/ then they are or can be sufficient for. Hitherto pertaineth that all the ordinary ministers ought to be appointed to a place: and that that place is a particular congregation/ no diocese/ nor province/ ccxcuj. ccclx Where the D. corruption drawn from the Papists is confuted. Hither also pertaineth/ that Denis did not divide parishes/ Provinces and dioceses ccclviij. Hither also pertaineth/ that by the word of God there may and ought (if the case require) be more bishops in one particular congregation/ ●●n one dxxvij. The traces thereof in the church/ long after the Apostles time/ page dxxviij. dl●●.  
Likewise that there ought/ (by the word of God) to be in every particular congregation one bishop/ dxv. Hither refer the causes/ off the falling away of this order: which were nought dxx. Likewise/ that care over churches/ inferreth not necessarily charge over them dcxxij. That the jurisdiction they had out of their particular churches: was nothing but a reverend estimation page dxxxij. Hitherto pertaineth/ the use off the church/ long after the apostles times ccc. Also that the elder bishops/ were called bishops of parishes cccclxxv●ij. The examples of Demetrius dxlij. of Cyprians bishop/ almost through the whole 3. chapter of the last Tra. of Cornelius 540. 556. of Dionysius Alexandrinus 558 Gregory 5●9 Peter Alexandrinus ●60, Athanasius 56● Ambrose 492. All which alleged by the D. as bishops of provinces/ were either of one particular church/ or off the churches in one only ci●●e: or (at the lest) had far less compass by the twentieth part/ then our bishops. This use is showed to have continued in the Deacons diij.  
We are also confirmed in this refusal/ by authority of a number of the reformed churches dcxviij. off the Godly writers/ which have particularly spoken against/ either all/ or some of these offices. As Jerome 598. M. Wicleve 616. Luther 617. Barns/ and Hooper 526. Bucer 556. 567. 662. Musculus 549. 598. Caluin 566. 613. etc. 629. The bishop of Salisbury 568. Beza 505. Bullinger 426. 567. Hitherto belong ●● that the answerers reasons in this cause/ are drawn (almost 〈◊〉 from the Papists. Namely from Pighius/ Harding/ and other papists/ against the Catholics 414. 426. 446 573. 616. 622. And from Harding/ against the bishop of Salisbury. 425. 430. 453. 472. 497. 500 599 601. 611. 612.   

Ecclesiastical election.  
IT ought to be/ with consent of the church: first for that it is/ the institution off God. This is showed out of the 14. Acts 194. Here is disputed off the signification of lifting up of hands 199 Also out of the 8. 1. Corinth's 209. and Acts 6 134. for that the lightest charges off the church were not done but by consent of it: where the exception taken from Pigghius is answered. Likewise out of j Acts 12●. Considering that in that/ Election which was made immediately by the lord/ the church's judgement was not passed by. This is strenghtned by Nomb. 8. 220. Leviticus ●. Numbers 20. 222. Hitherto pertaineth that which the D. allegeth to the contrary out of Titus 1. and Timoth. 1. 5▪ cclxv. drawn from Pighius cclxx. Whereto belongeth that the scripture sometime attributeth to the chief in an action/ that is common to more than to them: confirmed by the manner off speaking both in scripture and otherwise: also by the judgement of Caluin/ Musculus 196. Beza 135. Bullinger 197. Further that which the D bringeth out off 13 Act. taken from Hosius cclxxxiij. Likewise that the form off the Election should be other now: then in time of the apostles ccxxxv. Where the number of Christians/ and (through the number) tumult in elections is confuted. Also that of the difference of religion and manners/ between Christians then and now: taken from Hosius ccxlj▪ Where is handled/ the shutting forth of papists/ Drunkards and Whoremongers Further that the estate of the church: was not then popular ccxlix That the confirmation of the election by the magistrate/ altereth not the form cclxij Hither also refer/ the counterfeit Ambrose: drawn from Pighius/ off the diversyty of government of the church then/ and now cclix.  
This is confirmed/ of the effects of the church Election: because it breedeth assurance of the minister/ in his calling: maketh the people/ more obedient to him/ as Musculus confesseth cclx. Causeth the Godly/ to love him 〈◊〉: and bridleth the Hypocrites from outrage against him … xix. Hitherto refer that the D bringeth off the supposed contention/ that this will breed cxxxiiij cxlvij cclxxxviij. Likewise of the comparison/ between the effects of our bishop's elections: with those of the churches cxlvij ccxxvij. Likewise that the errors of the church's election: may be commodiously remedied by the churches hard by/ by the Synods/ and (if they fail) by the magistrate 23●.  
That it is the church's liberty as Musculus saith cclx  
Also/ that the consent off the parliament/ touching the bishop's election: is not the churches ecclesiastical election: Where the D doth but mock the church ccxxv.  
That certain things/ are variable in this election: hindereth not the perpetuity of the churches consent cxxxvij That the ignorance of the church is not such/ as both hinder the church's election cxi. cxluj ccxxix. Neither corruption of religion such cxivijs. Nor of affections. ccxxix.  
This is also showed by comparison of the church's election with that which is commonly done in civil affairs ccxxiiij. confirmed by Peter Martyr ccxxviij.  
Last of all this is confirmed/ by old custom ccxx. by Counsels Nycene cclvij. cclxxxiiij. Constantinople/ Carthage/ Toledo/ alleged page xxxvij. off my first book: off Paris/ Orleans with divers other/ ccxx. emperors decrees cciij/ Ignatius cciij. Cyprian cxxv. ccx●ij. Where is/ the D. exception taken out of Pigghius/ Gregory Nazianzene/ Ambrose ccixxx. chrysostom cxciij. Jerome cclxxuj. Augustin cclxxviij. The exception against which testimony is taken from Pigghius. Oecumenius ccij Luther ccxiiij. Archbishop off Reins/ ●usanus/ Celestinus/ Leo ccliij.  
of the authorities/ which he useth: that off chrysostom upon the 6 of the Acts/ is answered cxciij. That out of his book de sacerdorio/ and S. john drawn both from Hosius cclxxxviij. ccxcj. The rest either are nothing to purpose/ or are showed flat against him/ for us: as the Canon attributed to the Apostles/ off the Ancyran/ and Antioch can Council ccxv●ij. Caluin cxxuj ccxuj. ccxxij Zuing●●us and Bulllinger cxcuj. Beza cxci●ij. Musculus ccixiij. and toe example of the Tigurine election ccixv. Differing in some point f●●m us are showed greatly against him.   

Examination, an other part of election.  
That the ecclesiastical ministers examination/ is instituted in the word: is showed out of Acres j cxxj. 6. Act cxxvij 1. Timothy iij. cxliiij. Whether pertaineth/ the example of jeroboam clxi. unless they be known/ yet meet they should be offered unto it cxxij. yea and examined/ unless some good knowledge be before exxviij.  
That it ought not to be made by one only: as appeareth by the former testimonies Hither belong the reasons of ignorance/ corruption in religion/ and affection/ noted in the former title: as those which are common to this/ aswell as to the churches consent in election. This is explained/ by comparison off Civil affairs res. cxx●x/ etc. clix. Confirmed by example of S. Paul xuj. Act. cliiij. Whether pertaineth/ that alleged of the D. that S. Paul was received at the testimony of Barnabas 160. Especially this examination ought not to be made by the Archdeacon/ in the election of a bishop cliiij. And that the receiving of a bishop at his testimony/ came from Rome cxliij.  
That in the examination with us/ the church is utterly shut out: howsoever the D/ pretend otherwise cliiij.  
Known adulterers ought not to be received into the ministry clxxuj. Nor ministers fallen into Idolatry cxlv. The law of Moses/ in that behalf: ought rather to be observed under the gospel/ then under the law cixxuj. The ends hereof clxxiiij. Here is handled/ the example of judas clxviij. clxxiiij. The pharisees clxviij. Officer S. Paul and Peter clxxiiij. Likewise are handled S. Peter's denial clxxvij. and the gentiles Idolatry clxxxiiij. Increased by the D. to the end that the Popish Idolatry should semele's. Likewise/ that the decree off restoring ministers fallen into Idolatry: was not of the Council of rebaptisation clxxxij. That they which are nue come to religion ought not to be received to the ministry of the word clxxx.  
That a proof may be taken off the bishop's ability in teaching/ before he be ordained. cl. That if they be not able to teach: they ought not by the word to be ordained ccclxvij.  
Hither perceineth/ that is unmeet/ to … own ministers their Care chism ccclxiiij.  
Hither belongeth the treatise off rea●ing the holy scriptures where first is showed/ the use of reading them in the church ccclxxv. That reading of them is not able ordinarily to hold the people from pining ccclxiij. Neither can reading of prayers/ or administration of the Sacraments without preaching/ ccclxiiij. That simple reader's/ ordained for pastors: can not properly be called watchmen ccclxxuj. That reading is not preaching ccclxxxvij. Against the phrenefie/ that bore reading is better than preaching/ clxxxv. That bore reading is not so good/ as preaching/ ccclxxiiij not to the learned themselves/ ccclxxxiiij. much less reading of the homilies/ cccxciij. Which are not meet to be read in the church openly cccxcij. As are not also the Apoctyphas ccxcviij: especially considering their corruptions/ page cccc.  
Hither pertaineth/ the judgement of the churches/ off unlearned ministers ccclxiiij.  
The causes off the unlearned ministry/ with us ccclxiij. ccclxv. ccclxxj.   

Ordination.  
ORdination doth not belong to the bishop alone cclxxiiij.  
Against the Bishop commanding to receive the holy ghost in ordaining ccxcij.   

Residence.  
IN the residence of the ministers/ that off the Pastor is particularly handled 4. Tract. page cccxxx. Where our reasons are maintained.  
That it is the institution of God in the old Test. cccxlij. In the nue cccxliiij. That the calling of the church (which is also the lords) is to that place only cccxxxij. That he ought to be resident/ that thereby greater love might be wrought cccxiv: That having better knowledge/ off the estate of his flock he may better do all duties towards them cccxxxix. That with seeing the blessing of God/ he might be stirred to further diligence cccxlv: That his flock having more famyliaryty might have easier acces ibid. That he might be 〈◊〉 ●●mple of life cccxliij.  
Proved also by, … ontinual duty of preaching: Whether pertaineth that treatise/ wherein/ is showed; that it is convenient it should always god before the administering of the holy Sacraments cccxlviij. Hither may be referred the comparison of the diligence of the elder Bishops in preaching/ dcxlvij. Whether also refer the unlawful power of the bishop/ touching licences to preach: whereby it is in his will/ whether he will give the pastor leave to preach or no: considering that it is a necessary duty of the pastor/ and the principal cause off his residence cccxlj. That he must admonish both the wicked/ and the godly: strengthen both the weak and the strong cccxlj. Comfort in temptation cccxlvij. Therefore that the bore reading off the scripture is no sufficient supply in his absence cccxliij: Neither his care cccxxxij. That the conscience of the pastor and contentment of the people: is no good rule of doing these duties cccxxx.  
Neither belongeth that the pastor ought not to go here/ and there to preach: where he thinketh good. Where is showed/ that God doth not always call to places where one may do most good: no not in the extraordinary callings/ much les in the ordinary cccxxxuj. That this going about to preach (as it is assigned of the Answerer) taketh away the difference between the pastors calling/ and the extraordinary functions cccxxxij. That those extraordinary callings do not make against the pastors residence/ as it is assigned of us cccxxxj. cccxxxix: That they rather make for it cccxxxij. cccxxxiij. cccxxxv.  
That ordinary deputies are overthrown by this residence/ cccliiij whether may be referred/ that dlxxxuj. of deputies: Likewise pluralities of benefices cccluj. Hither refer/ that absence for some causes/ and some conditions: do not overthrow residence cccliij.  
This is also proved/ by comparison of shepherds/ and watchmen cccxxxuj. Where is showed/ how shamefully the answerer abuseth the doctrine of God's holy election: and of final perseverance of those/ which are once called cccxxxviij. Also that by his answer the pastor after he hath admonished them need never come to them: nor yet leave any deputy cccxli.  
Likewise of the eye/ and soul cccxlvij. 〈◊〉 it as is precious a work to keep those gotten/ as to get othe●●●ich be in ignorance: and more agreeable/ unto the pastors of … e.  
The authority of Counsels/ and father's cccxxxiiij. cccliiij.   

Ecclesiastical correction.  
A part off that Ecclesiastical discipline/ which standeth in corrections: is commanded is. Math. 66.    

To note only the errors/ corruptions and shameful falsifyings of the D. in such sort as he hath pretended in my book: were to make a new book. But because there is much voided paper/ I will give the reader an assay only/ of those contained in the treatises which I handle in this book. And those shall be not off the capital matters between us: but of such as are brought to underset them/ quoted according to his own book whereby it shall appear/ that for the defence of this cause he troubleth heaven it self: and in earth overthroweth both estates/ Civil/ and Ecclesiastical.  
THe whole la of god generally, is abrogated, pa. 121. li. 39  
The scripture speaketh not one word off preaching or baptizing privately or openly, page 89. line 6.  
The scripture hath not commanded, neither can it be by necessary collection thereof gathered: whether we should receive the communion clothed or naked, page 24. line 21.  
The scripture hath appointed no discipline for the correcting off such as shall contemn the hearing off the word and common prayer, page 88 line 47.  
He matcheth the judicial laws of god, given unto the Iwes: with the Turckes laws, page 149 line 32.  
HE alloweth th' 〈◊〉 sentence off cyril which condemneth the justice of g … … ishing those by aeternal death which suffered corpor●●●●ath under the la page 149. line 48.  
He matcheth the nourishing off saith by consideration of the creatures, with popish imagety, page 571. line 2.  
TO maintain the sole election of the bishop: he would have the free elections of magistrates, in cities and Borowgh Towns taken away, page 171. line 49.  
Whereby he will have the form of government of the common wealth framed unto the form off the church: whereof notwithstanding and that most untrwly he accuseth me.  
Likewise that under the gospel there is no punishment of the body laid upon a transgressor: but that if he repent, so that he may seem worthy to have the punishment withdrawn, he may find forgiveness, page 150. line 9  
No man what crime soever he hath committed: is to be secluded from any lawful vocation if he repent. And by vocation: he meaneth public office, page 146. line 23.  
The external government of the church, under a Christian magistrate: must be according to the kind and form of government, used in the common wealth, pa. 389. li. 5. which (beside the absurdity) utterly overthroweth the liberty: which himself pretendeth that the church hath, in disposing of it.  
In the apostles times, it was permitted to all men: to preach, the word of God, page 191. li. 16.  
Beside Pastors there are now with us, Apostles Prophets, and Evangelists, page 229. line 6.  
ALthowgh there were a sufficient number off able men to supply the places of the reading ministers: yet the reading ministers, ought to keep their places still page 485. lin. 5.  
The word, is as effectual red: as preached Page 569. lin. 23. To those, which understand the scriptures: they are as hot and lightsome read, as preached, page 573. li. 34.  
public reading in the church, is as solem●● matter: as catechizing the youth, page 425. lin. 43.  
It may be, that some men be more edified 〈◊〉 simple reading off the scriptures▪ then by sermons pa●●. ●80. li. 30.  
To that I say, that neither homilies, nor Apocrypha are to be compared either in goodness within themselves, or fruit to the hearers, with the scripture or reading thereof: he answereth that that maketh against sermons, as well as against homilies: and rather against sermons, then against them, Page 717 li. 52. Whereby he affirmeth, that homilies are both better in themselves, and more fruitful to the hearers: then sermons.