The Confutation of the misshapen Answer to the misnamed, wicked Ballad, called the Abuse of the blessed sacrament of the aultare. Wherein, thou haste (gentele Reader) the right understanding of all the places of scripture that Miles Hoggard, (with his learned counsel) hath wrested to make for the transubstantion of the bread and wine. ☞ Compiled by Robert Crowley. Anno. 1548. ¶ To the Reader AFter I had perused 〈…〉 answer (christian Reader) and perc●iu●● how greatly the papists glori●● therein thinckeinge (yea and make ●s their cracks) that no man should be able to confute it, or if any man should take in hand to writ again, he should be aunswerede in like manner: I ●hou●ht it my 〈◊〉 (amongst other my labours for the sitteyng●forth of the truth of the christian faith) t● overthrow this their bullwarcke, that these proud philist●ans may know that the Lord of host●s hath not left his church so ●estitut● of the good gifts of the spirit, but that th● very little ones (of his army) are able to drive them from all their holds, and cause them to ●ee when▪ their stouburne stomachs▪ will no● suffer them to yield to the truth The spirit of the lyveinge God lead the in the way of truth, that thou be not deceived by these false a dissembling hypocrites, which under the name catholic faith would still maintain the romish ruff and Kingdom of Anti christ. AMEN. ☞ ☜ ☞ ☜ ¶ The preface to the reader. GOod readers all, of each degree To you I make, humble request When that you do this read or see To judge my mind unto the best And blame me not, though I ●rnest ●e In this hige point of our faith Which now, so many enemies hath. All things, sayeth Paul, that written be Are written plain for our learning Then sy●h in scripture t●us we see That Christ to us was so loving Not only death for us suffering But also left us his flesh and blood Of body and soul to be the food Namely to such as worthily Re●eyue it with a faith perfect That Christ is their soul and body Whom the jews slewa with great despy●● Without which faith as I recite Th●y do receyu● it damnably Not des●rninge our lords body Good rea●er mu●e not on this thing How by thy reason it should be For tha● in error will the bring If thou by reason seek to see How God can work this mystery Canst thou vile dust at this season Measure God's work by thy reason Thou ar● 〈◊〉, bu● a creature Wyl● thou w●t● thy maker contend How he can work at his pleasure A●oue that ●hou canst comprehend He hath made the unto such end● That thou by faith, to him should ●leane Above reason, for to believe Therefore I do, the advertise Thy reason there, to captivate It is no reasons exercise With, how, to know the perfy●e ra●e How God doth work, in this estate Therefore again to the I say Thou oughtest him in faith to obey Thus end I now my preface desiring you good readers all The perfit faith for to embrace The which is most catholical And if in this answer you shall Find any fault, I it commit To such as can, truly mend it. FINIS The confutation ¶ In this preface of yours I note iii things First that you say the sacrament hath many enemy's. Secondly, that you father your fond opinion upon the scripture. thirdly and last that you go about to make that thing plain whereof never man doubted. For the first, It is easy to be conjected what manner of men you account for the enemies of this sacrament, even the author of the ballad that you brabble about and all other of his mind (I doubt not) are those you mean of, But for as much as it is no small reproach to a christian man to be accounted an enemy of Christ's sacraments: it shallbe good to bring this mattier ne●e the light, that all such as have eyes that can abide the light, may judge whether of both the parties, your sort or ours, be the enemies that you spal● of, It shallbe necessary therefore first to describe the enemy of Christ's sacraments, setting him forth in his lively colours and then set him up between both parties, that other men may judge which▪ of them both he doth most resemble. The enemy therefore of Christ's sacraments is such one as by any mean endeavoureth to diminish or take away any part of the virtue and strength of the same, as for example, he that will take away from baptism the virtue & power to declare unto us by the eternal and outward wassheing of the body, that the soul is (by the blood of the immaculate and unspotted lamb) washed and purged from all the filth and corruption of sin: the same is an enemy unto baptism and denieth it to be a sacrament. For longer than it is the visible sign of invisible grace, it is no sacrament. In like manner, he that endeavoureth, to take a way from the most blessed sacrament of the body and blood of Christ the virtue & power to declare unto us that as the bread is made of many grains and the wine of many grapes and yet is but one loof or piece of bread and one cup of wine, so we being many faithful believers & professers of christ are but one body the head whereof is the same our saviour & redeemer Christ: doth no less than deny these most worthy sacraments, bread & wine, to be any sacraments at all, or at the least way he taketh away from them their chiefest and principal office, leaveinge them as it were things scrueing in manner to no purpose. For not withstandeing that they signify unto us, that in like manner as they are the food of the body, so is Christ the food of the soul: yet the chi●feste thing that they were ordained for, was to declare the unite of the faithful m●mbres of Christ's musticall body, the church and congregac● on of christians. What so ●uer he is therefore, that taketh away from these sacraments the power to signify this unity: denieth them to be sacraments, and therefore is an enemy to Christ's sacraments. Now let them that have the spirit of god wellinge in them: judge whe●ther of both parties be these enemies▪ We that say they be bread and wine, and therefore made of many grains of corn● & many grapes, whereby is signified the unity of us the membres of Christ's mystical body: or you that deny them to be either bread or wine, and therefore to have any such signification? You are to young (master Hoggarde) to defe●de this mattier. You know not on which side your bread is buttered, You took your 〈◊〉 to be an high friend to Christ's sacraments and now you are proved to be their mortal enemy. Now for you secounde part. You say (and true it is) that Paul teacheth all things that be written, to be writ●en for our learneing. Friend Hogg●rde, I cun you thank that you have learned some what at father Latimers' sermons, thought your coming thither were for like purpose as you have heretofore haunted other men's sermons to ●ere and note and bear tidings you wots whether. But I would wish that you had learned a little more, and then I doubt not but you would have been atrayde either to belie Gods most holy book or to set any of gods scriptures on the ●acke or else to crxampe them. Where find you it in gods book the Christ's body and blood, is the ●ode of our bodies? Did not Christ rebuke the Capernaties for this your gross & carnal opinion? did he not bid them work the meat● that remaineth for ever and not that which perisheth? And when they asked him what they might do to work the works of God: did he not make answer y● to believe in him whom God hath sent, is the work of God? Is Christ's immortal body become the food of our mortal bodies? Oh more than owlieshe blindness, Where find you in all god's book, yea in a●y foude Philosophers writteinge, that mortal bodies can be fed with food that is immortalle? The time would fail me, if I should not leave writing till I had declared your beastly blindness to the worthiness. But I will leave you to the judgement of them that shall read your words, which are so open blasphemy, that every man that hath any little spark of godly knowledge may easily judge whose spirit you are. Then do you proceed to heap error upon ●rrour, and thus you say. The perfect faith wherein this sacrament must be received: is to be lief that Christ is there, body and soul. To scan these your words to the worthiness I can do not less then judge your meaning herein to be all one with that wicked article for the not believeinge whereof so many have been most cruelly murdered, even one of the six which God hath now confounded. For what other thing can you make of your joineing of body and soul to the sacrament: but to mak● it natural man which consisteth of these two parts. And then it is easy to be conjected what arguments you will ground upon this sand. Forsooth even the same that the great patrons and defenders of this articles have heretofore framed to their purpose. And had if not been for fear to encure the danger of the late proclamation. I doubt not you would have lashed them out as fast as never did any of them. But you thinks your ●elfe to have escaped all these dangers & yet to have placed your words so that all your friends may perceive your meaning to ●e noless but that the sacrament is not bread nor wine, but ●●eshe, and blood and bones because it is body and soul. But if you remember the words of the proclamation well, you shall s● that you have over shot yourself a little as w●relye as you have walked. As I remember, the proclamation permitteth none other names to be given to the sacrament. But such as are expressly found in the scripture, And I pray you where find you in the scripture, that the sacrament is called the soul of Christ? See you no● into what case you have brought yourself Well shift for yourself as well as you can. I ●eare me the proclamation willbe laid in your neck. And if it be, take it for a plague, for amongst those things that be wryiten for our learning: are found these true sayings. Who so striketh with the sw●rde sha●l perish with the sw●rde. He that showeth no mercy, shall find no mercy. And the same measure ye make unto other shallbe made unto you again. Remember yourself (friend Hogherde) how● many you have set forward toward 〈◊〉 in the time of persecution. Men thy●ke that from the ●yme of john Fri●h to 〈…〉 of (the constant witness of god's truth) Anne askwe, there was no blood shed in Smythfylde, but your part will be in it at the last day▪ Repent therefore and acknowledge your ●aute, God is merciful to the penitent, He is able to take from you your stony heart and to give you one of ●●esh. But if you will be still stubborn, he will make you utter you● own folly further yet, & at the length to run into the red sea with cruel Pharaoh. Now▪ in the third and last part of your preface: you labour greatly to make that thing plain that never man doubted of, that is that god is able to make his body & blood of bread & wine. Who ever doubted of god's omnipotency & almighty power? Who believeth not certainly that he which was able to make heaven, the earth and all that is therein of nought: can also make his body and blood of bread and wine? You bid us captivate our reason, because it surmunteth reason to know how god worketh this wonderful work above teason Surely I never hard reasonable beast braylle with less reason. For what reason leadeth you to conclude. Aposse adesse, that is if you understand not the terms of logic (as I conject by your writing that you do not) to affirm a thing to be done. because it is possible it may he done▪ It is possible that you (being to your power) a cruel Saulle should be converted & made aperfecte Paul and preachers of the way which you have long persecuted: but that you are so, doth, not yet appear wherefore I dare not conclude because it is possible and God is able to change your heart therefore he hath done it. But if I did percei● either by any manifest sign or ●oken or else by the testimony of gods holy word that you we● converted: I would forth with believe it without ask any question how it might be Right so do I say of the sacraments of the body & blood of Christ If I might perceive that God had (according to his power) changed this bread & wine into his body & blood or if the word of God did tell me that Christ had made this alteration or change: I would and so would we all) be as ready to believe it as you on any of your doctors thought it we my Lord of Winchester whose arguments you use in your answer. But here you begin to prepare yourself to speak. You have an objection ready at hand, I pray you sir (say you) what plainer words would you have then those which Christ spoke to his disciples when he instituted this blessed sacrament? did he not say this is my body? How say you sir to this, was it his body that he gave them or did he make ally to them? For one of the boeh you must needs grant me. Not so sir by your l●eaue Nether did he lie unto them nor yet was the bread that he gave them his body other wise than the cup was the new testament or covenant established by his blood shed on the cross, that is to say in signification and not in substance a●d so we believe more firmly than all my Lord your masters faggots can remove out of our hearts. We shall speak more largely of this matter in the confutation of your answer to the ballad. OF late a new ballad came to my hand compiled by a ●al●e christian man As it is easy for to understand In that so madly he doth the thing scan Which ●e reproveth, but here after Ye do rea●e the answer it shall appear (when What devilish doctrine he hath written here And because his error shallbe seen plain. Each staff of his time I will answer so That then he shall have no cause to complain For all his hole pro●esse as it doth go I will writ forth and not add one word m● In than swear whereof, he shall see evident How wycke●lye his time in it he hath spent And now for his matter to en●er in As after followeth it doth begin. The confutation. You enter into your mattier, as though you had been at school with Tertullus the orator that accused Paul before felix the debtie, A false christian, you say, hath made a ballad, a fond talker, a wrytter of devilish doctrine, one that hath spent his time wickedly in writing this ballad. But your master 〈◊〉 had one cast that you lack. He had substantial men even of the auldermen of Ierus●lem to wittynesse with him that all was true that he ●ayed. I am a f●ade the auldermen of ordon will not do so by you. Well you say he is a false christian, but because you have no record I dare not believe you. For if ye be remembrede, you complained in your preface of the great numbered of enemies that the sacamentes of Christ have: and ye● in conclusion it was proved that their was none so great and enemy as yourself. Even so 〈◊〉 this point I will not swear for you. For he that is tried to be an enemy to Christ's sacraments, is not like to be a true Christian. Come near the light therefore that we may deserve whether your hear be natural or counterfeit. A wolf may have a sheeps fell one his back: and so I fear me you have. But we shall not be desce●ued in you, for our master Christ hath appointed us tokens to know you By their fruits (saith he) you shall know them, They do the works of their father the devil who was an homiside or manquellar even from the beginning. The great desire that you have to shed man's blood declareth your nature. The name of a christian can not make you aper●it christian & a sheep of his flock. No though ye go in company with the sheep of Christ even to their pasture and feeding: yet so long as ye be ashepebyter, we can not take you for other than a wolf, though you were lapped in four sh●pe skynes, The true christians are in this world as lambs in the mids among wolves, All they therefore that be as wolves among lambs, are false christians. If you therefore do know the Author of this Ballad to be such one: them may you iustby call him a false christian, other wise you slander him. Certain fruits there be whereby these false christians be known, which if I find in you ye must pardon me though I translate this name from him to you as to him that is most worthy to bear it. The first of these fruits, is delight in outward holiness, which Christ reprehended in the phariseis, An other is the fervent zeal to set forth man's doctrine, and to measure the scripture thereby, which was rebuked in them also, The third and last, is the glorying in their own justice and merits, sekeing satisfations besides Christ, either by themselves or other Which was the common fault of the jews Whether these fruits may be found in you (friend Hogarde) let them judge that know your opinion in all matters, which (I doubt not) as many as shall diligently read and mark your answer shall▪ do. And to make the matt●er more plain I shall upon occasion given, some what note in the confutation of that, that followeth, And when I have showed your fruits I shall desire you not to● stomach the matter▪ though I say (as the trneth is) that a false christian hath defamed a faithful brother. As for the scanning of his mattier (madly as you say) shall appear in the progress. In the mean time I shall desire you to call to your remembrance your Deprofundis, setting it before your eyes as a matter madly scanned, till: I have scanned your mysshapen answer, and then if you lust, put of your thymble and take your pen in hand and scan the mattier with your learned counsel (you wots whom I mean) and declare yourself to be no writer of devilish doctrine, and say that you were not the father though you bear the name. Yet tell them that did it, that if they write again they shallbe answered. The ballad. What meaneth this guise, I would feign here Strange sights in my eyes, there do apere▪ Defended with lies, both far and near Great ruth it is, The answer What this 〈◊〉 doth mean is here strange to me For if he be christened then dare I say That that thing which he maketh so strange to be sith he, he came to reason every day The sacrament he saw honour alway But if he be a panym, than truly I ●lame him not much for his great outcry The confutation Your answer declareth that to be tru● that 〈◊〉 w●itten by Paul to the romans, The natural man perceiveth not the things that be of the spirit of God, You comp● it no strange sight to see the sacrament honoured with divine honour, because in your time it hath been so honoured. I deed to the bodily eye this sight is nothings strange because it is a continual object and dayelye re●ued Image in that crystalline humour: But so many as have the eyes of the inward man opened wherewith they s● the true honourers and that honour God in spirit and truth, may well call thy● a straying sight. For since the beginning of creatures, th●re was never such honour seen to be given to any creature among the honours that the spiritual eye beholdeth. Wherefore when it chanceth the spiritual man to behold the abominations of this world he may ●ight well call them strange though they be continually in the eyes of his body. justly and truly therefore sayeth the author straying 〈◊〉 in mine eyes there do appear, yea and th●t defen●ed with l●es, For what ●rueth can you have to defend the thing that fyghhteth with all truth? All truth agreeth that the true honourers of God shall honour him 〈◊〉 the spirit and truth, and not at Ierusal●m nor yet in the hill of Samaria. That is to say, neither with cerimonial worship prescribed by a law, nor yet with any outward worship invented of their own brains. If you have any truth against this truth then stand up & declare how these strange sights be defended therewith. ¶ The ballad Ice men honour, Both bread and wine For christ our saviour, which he left for a sign To the believer, Of his death divine Lord amend this The answer. Whoever heard beast so shamefully lie, No Christian man doth honour bread or wine For nether kinds be there though to our eye They do so apere, yet faye●h doth define Christ hole to be there by his power divine To whom the godhead is knit there joyntlye Whom we are bound to honour of duty ¶ The confutation. Here you will hang yourself and ask me no leave, you will not walk out of the reach of the proclamation. You will still be saying that scripture denieth, and deny that scripture affirmeth. I am sorry that I was not of your counsel before you published your answer, for if I had I would have showed you this daynger before. Well now it is to late, for I am sure you can not stop it but it will be showed to the magistrates, and then you know their charge already. The best counsel that I can give you now, is to make haste and recant. For so shall you yet save some part of your honesty though it be but a very little. You say no christian man doth honour bread and wine Hitherto you say●●rue, for to honour bread and wine, is the work of an infidel. But than you show a good, cause why men honour not bread and wine. because the● is none to be honoured. Here is occasion offered of more questians than ever you would be able to solute even with the help of all your secret counsalours I might ask you what thing that is which the bodily eye seeth, that the hand feeleth, that the taste discerneth, that is broken, that wa●th ●●a●mye when it take● weate, that will putrefy and rot if it be kept longer time than bread may endure, finally what that is which must be burned when it is muldie so that▪ the stomach abhorreth it, I am sure you will not say it is the body of Christ, for that is not nor can not be otherwise seen with the bodily eye) them as it was, is and shallbe, in the form of man it can not be broken, for it is impassable, it can not wa● slimy nor clammy, for it is purified from all slimy nature, it can not putrefy, for it is with out all corruption, it can not be burned▪ because it is immortalle. But here you will say that you have already answered to these questians, It appeareth (you say) to be bread or wine but faith defineth an other manner of thing. That is that whole Christ as there, and that the godhead also is jointly knit unto the same Christ being there, so that of duty we must ho●our him in these forms Than note you in the margin, Blessed be they that believe and see not. Where you fal●ifie the text, which hath. Blessed are they that saw not and b●leued, spoken in reproach of the herd believe of Didimus that would not believe the resurrection of his master Christ by the report of them that saw him risen (not wythstandynye he knew that Christ had promised before his death that he would rise again the third day) but said he would first see the fastening of the nails in his hands and put his finger in the holes and his hand into his side: yer he would believe. But when he had seen and confessed saying. My Lord and my God: then Christ said unto him. Because thou hast s●ne me Thomas, thou hast believed. Happy or blessed are they that saw not and believed▪ meaneing thereby the fathers and prophets of the old law which saw him not, with the bodily eye, and yet believed all that they writ of him concerning his coming in the flesh which Thomas would not believe till he saw it. Thus you declare your knowledge in the scriptures to be but base, as theirs is that are of your counsel. But now let us return to your answer. It appeareth to our eye (you say) to be bread and wine but faith defineth whole Christ to be there by his power divine Here you speak subtly. You think you have plenty of starting holes in this piece of your answer. Faith defineth (you say) that whole Christ is there by his power divine so that if we would charge you with the proclamation and say that you affirm the natural, real▪ and to ●all presence of Christ God and man flesh blood and bones, tooth and naiale and all together: than you will say no sir▪ I mente no such thing. He is there by his power divine even as he hath promised to be with his church unto the end of the world. You are answered Not yet friend hogherde. For this presence that you speak of which Christ promised to his sayethful is an invisible assistance of g●ace as appeareth by the circumstance of the text where this promise is mentioned. For after he had given them in commandment to preach unto all nations, and to baptize them in the name of the father the son and the holy ghost reaching them to keep all things that I have given you commandment: he said Behold I am with y●u even unto the end of the world meaneinge none other thing than he did when he said where so ever to or three be gathered together in my name, there am I in the mids of them That is to say, be you never so few in number, be you never so little regarded of the world and wordly wys●: fear not to testify and witness my truth unto all nations baptizeing and teaching them to keep all things that I have commanded you, not your own dreams, not your own fantasies for then you go in your own name and▪ not in mine, and be hold I am with you all the days even to the end of the world, I will confound your enemies, they shall not be able to resist the spirit that shall speak in you I myself which am all one with my father willbe continually with you. Thus you see (friend Hoggarde) that this pre●ence of Christ with his church is not anatural and invisible presence under a visible form, as my Lord of Wynchester teacheth you, but it is a merciful assistance of, the immense, and in comprehencible godhead who is present in all places, but assistant to his elect only. So that if you will not have Christ naturally, really and carnally present: you must not say● that whole Christ is there that is to say God and man, for so (as saint Augustine witnesseth with express words) he was on the earth and not in heaven owhere he is now, in as much as he was man) when he said. Noman ascendeth into heaven, but only the son of man which is in heaven and did also dessende from heaven. One person (saith the same Augustine) is ●oeth God and man, and both these natures are bu● one Christ, by that he is God, in all places, but by that he is man, he is in heaven. And yet more plainly. One and the self same Christ (sayeth Fulgentius according to his human substance, was absent from heaven when he was upon earth and left the earth when he ascended into heaven By this you may perceive how far you are deceived in your opinion of the total presence of Christ in the sacrament. But because I would gladly you should forsake your ex●oure and embrace the truth: I shall open unto you one other doubt that might chance to trouble your mind. The godhead you say is jointly 〈◊〉 to the manhood and can not be separate whereupon you conclude that as the one is i●mensse and filleth all places so must the other needs be. To this objection, saint Augustine shall make you answer. 〈◊〉 followeth not saith he that the thing that is in god, should be in all places as he is. For the scripture doth most truly report of us, that we do live, move and ●e in him: & yet be we not▪ in all places as he is. But man is in God after one sor● and god in him after an other sort▪ After a certain propre and peculiar sort. The manhood therefore being jointly knit unto the godhead is not in all places as is the godhead, but the scripture teacheth and we do constantly● believe: that the manhood of Christ having finished the purpose of his coming in the flesh (that is to say offered himself one the cross for our redemption and risen again for our justification) is ascended into heaven and sitteth at the right hand of God the father whence he shall come to judge the quick and dead. As for his presence in the sacrament we believe it to be such as it is in us his faithful membres whom Paul calleth his membres, of his flesh and of his bones. And yet is not the presence of Christ in us such, that we ought thereby to be honoured as gods: 〈…〉 No more is he so present in the sacrament that it ought to be honoured as God. Thus largely have I spoken of this matter because I desire more to win you to Christ then to confound you before the world For If I had not desired your conversion from the Romeyshe way: I would have opened your fond assertions whrein you affirm that there is neither bread nor wine in the sacrament though both appear to our eye, and so have left you to yourself. It had been easy so to have done. Both for that the eye is the instrument that God hath given to judge decern and know all visible things by: and also because the elect vesse of God Paul, and our● saviour Christ himself, do call them both bread and wine, and that even after the consecration (if there be any) as I shall hereafter prove more at large. The Ballad. Wonderful sights, I could declare I looked in the pixte Dome gods I saw there Made of the priests, Which sinners are Living amiss. The answer Wonderful it is unto a pagan● How a pure virgin should bring forth a child But easy it is to a Christian man Which hath this, how from his reason exiled Obeying to faith on which he doth build So if this man would reason captivate He should not jest after this foolish rate Dome gods it pleaseth this wre●ch them to call The hosts he meaneth which are consecrate Because they speak not nor be seen vital Ergo, they be doom: o beast intoxicate If Christ could be seen there after that rate That he walked here, where were then thy faith Where eye, may persuade, faith hath no merits ¶ The Confutation, You go about to make the matter plain by a similitude, It is wonderful (you say) to a pagan) how a virgin should bring forth a child: but to a christian it is no wonder at all, his faith you say, putteth away all wonder. So if this man (say you) would captivate his reason, he would believe (as you do) that the hosts can speak. first I will examayne your similitude and tri how it serveth for your purpose. The whole meaneing of your similitude is no more but this. In like manner as achristian will not wonder how a virgin can bring forth a child: so will he not wonder how the hosts in the pyx should speak. Or for the first part. As it is a point of a pagan to wonder how a virgin should bring forth a child: so is it to believe that the hosts in the pyx be dumb. But I pray you sir with your paunce. Are not you a Christian man? Yes marry s●ye you I would you should know it. And I pray you sir, if your daughter should bring forth a child, would you think she were a virgin? It were not like sure. Well, if you wer● certain that sh● were a virgin would you not wonder how she should be conceived? Yes verily. For it to contrary to the course of nature, and therefore to be wondered at. How say you ●o your similitude them. Apply it to you purpose, and see how it a greeth. As it is to be wondered how a virgin should be conceived with child, so is it how the hosts in the pyx should speak. Ah sir, this maketh somewhat for our purpose. But here you will say, that by your ●ayth you will captivate your reason & believe it to be done because you see it to be so. But how it should come to pass, you will ask no question. Then you believe it because you see it and so your faith is grounded upon the knowledge of the senses. All this maketh against you Well yet once again let us asaye another way. Grant your daughter be with child & you know not wheth●re she be a virgin or not. What will you say than? Will you straight way captivate your reason and senses because you are a christian and believe that your daughter is a virgin? Tush say you all this is nothing to the purpose, all my meaning is of the virgin Mary of whose virginity all christians are certain. But I pray you How are christe● men certified of Mary's virginity? By▪ the words of the prophet say you, which were spoken long before. Behold a virgin shall conceive and bring forth a son, and ●is name shallbe called Emanuel. A ha, them y●u do not captivate reason but reason leadeth you to believe i●, because the Prophet of 〈◊〉 had spoken it long before that it should come to pa●●e. How know you that this prophecy was fulifilled in Marie? I know that (say you) by the testimonies that I find in the scripture, where by Christ (who was the first borne of the same Ma●ie) was declared to be that son that should be borne of a virgy●e. And the testimonies he these. Luk●. ●. The words of the angel spoken to the virgin in the time of her conception. Fera●e not Mari● (said the angel) for thou haste found favour with God, Behold, thou shalt conceive in the womb & bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name jesus. This shall be great a●d shallbe called the son of the highest and the Lord God shall give him the ●eate of David his father and he shall reign in the house of Iacobe for ever & his kingdom shall have none end, another testimony, the words of the angel unto joseph when he had thought to have put away his despoused wife privily because he perceived her to be with child, knowing that he never compayned with her. joseph (said the angel) thou son of David fear not to take to y● Marry thy wife. For the thing that is bourn in her is of the holy ghost she shall bring forth asonne and thou shalt call his name jesus, for he shall make self his people from their sins. Again the angel of the Lord said unto the herd men in this wise. Flare ye not, for lo I preach unto you great joy which shall chance unto all the people For this day is borne to you a saviour which is Christ the anointed Lord in the City of David. Simeon An the prophets, the wismen that of ●ast the witness of john Baptist & the voice o● the father from heaven: do declare this same son of mary to be the son of the virgin spoken of before by the prophet. Wherefore I believe that Marie brought forth a child without los of virginity because jesus the first borne of her body was by these testimonies declared to be the some seed that was promised to be borne of a virgin. Well, by all this it is plain that in this point reason is not captivated, but driveth us to believe because the spirit of truth hath prophesied it and so many witnessed with one assent confirmed it. Right so do I say of the sacrament. If you can find me but one of the prophets that hath said that any thing that seemeth not to have life should speak, and that the hosts in the pyx be, by the testimonies of the scriptures, proved to be the same: then will I not captivate reason, but willbe led by reason to believe that the same hosts (as you call them) be not dumb other wise you must pardon me though I believe not that they can speak, ●yll such time ●o I do either hear them speak myself or else learn it by the report of some credible person that hath heard them speak. This have I spoken to con●ent your expectation for the dombnesse of your gods: because I perceive by your similitude that you are altogether ●leshely and perceive not the spirit that is in the author of the ballad Dumb he calleth them, because (as you use them) they be taken for gods, and are but dumb ceremonies or signs, That is to say, having no lively signification, whereby the people that should receive them might be edified Their natural propritie is, to preach and declare unto us the unity of christians in the body and blood of Christ by faith more plainly than can be declared with words. For wha●●onge can be able to declare the mystery of the mystical body of Christ (his church and congregation) so plainly with words: as it is declared by the bread being but one bread made of many grains, and the wine being but one cup of wine made of many grapes? Take a way these lively signifi●acions therefore and what other thing shall remain but dumb ceremonies and signs declareinge nothing to the edification of the receivers, but holdeing them still in superstition under the name of gods? truly and justly therefore hath he called them dumb gods, for that they are without signification, and bear the name of gods being in deed neither gods nor gods ordinances, as you and your miscreaunt faith fellows do use them. Then conclude you upon an inconvenience saying. If Christ might ●e sen in the sacrament as he walked here: then could not our faith merit any thing in believing that we see not. graciously considered. You are loeth we should loss the merit of our faith, You would rather we should believe that good is jewel & ivil good, black white, & white black, that light is darkness and darkensse light yea that god is bread and bread God. But now it were wisdom to make a distinction of meriteinge and then to know how this faith of yours meriteth that we may be bold to call for our reward when the universal judge shall give to each one according to his merits. There be ii kinds of meriting therefore, that is to say of good and of jewel. The good kind of meriteing, is by Christ, thorough Christ for Christ, and in Christ. That is by casteing all our 〈◊〉 upon him only, 〈…〉 continually beaten and crucified before our e●es and crucifiing ourselves to the world having o● or trust in our ●elfe, any, work that we can do, or any other for us, setting up any in heaven earth or hell to be equal or partner with him: but beleveings and confesseing him ●o be all in all things, the only creator and maker the only and tree giver of all goodness, and the only peac● maker between God and us. The other kind of meriting●, is by Satan, the world and the flesh, contrary in all points to this. That is to say, taking all care upon ourselves sekeing● waye● to cru●i●ie and offer up Christ again, and refu●eynge to crucify our 〈◊〉, having all ●ruste in our own work●● and other creature's merits, making the deabe saync●es opteiners of mercy through their prayers and merits Yea making them mediators & peace makers between god & us. Now let the godly learned judge by which of these ●ow ways this faith of yours meriteth. You captivate reason, you say, & believe that in the sacraments of the body and blood of Christ: remaineth neither bread nor wine, but the very body and blood of Christ. yea whole Christ god and man, body and soul And then I dou●te not (your reason this captivated) you will (with your forefathers the founders of this your opinion) make it a sacrific● propicia●orye for the quick and dead for plague, penury and all kinds of diseases▪ For hauei●ge the inmaculate and unspotted lamb (as you say) even the son of the lyveing God conceived and borne of the immaculate virgin: what should let you to ●effr him 〈◊〉 God his father ● placable sacrifice for 〈◊〉 these things, to content the inevitable wrath of God bend towards us for the iniquity tha● reigneth in the world? And so doth this faith of yours drive you to seek other way●s of salvation then by the only Sacrifice of Christ once offered for all. You wyllbe still offering of him whom none can offer but himself. And all because you have captivated your reason, to believe that you have him here upon earth in such manner that you may Sacrifice him. Now tell me what this faith of yours meriteth. It leadeth you from the sure truite in the only sacrifice that Christ made once for al. It driveth you to open blasphemy, causing you to take upon you the office of Christ that is to say, to take a way sin by sacrifice yea and to sacrifice him whom none can sacrifice but himself. What merit is it then that this faith shall have? Forsooth the merit of unbelief because it is not ascertained that the son of God is comen in the flesh, and hath performed the end of h●s comeinge, that is, hath by his death and passion, satisfied for the sins of all the world, making perfect for ever, as many as believe in him. Yea it shall be rewarded among those blasphemous lym●nes of Antichrist, that take upon them to be the forg●uers of 〈◊〉 (which is the office of God only) making themselves, gods. deliver your reason out of prison therefore, and let her consider how your superstitious faith hath merited. Put away this fond persuasion of yours where by you are led to think that unless you captivate reason and become a brute beast, you can not believe the chief point of your religion Consider that Christ bade not his Apostles captivate reason and so believe that he was risen when he appeared unto them, but said ●ele and see, For spirits have not flesh and ●ones as you see that I have, He bade them not go preach unto men wyling them to captivate their reason and then believe, for than he might have said go preach to the brut beasts for they have no reason to refuse your doctrine. For what other thing is it to captivat reason then to debar her of her office and to keep her Idle so that to be altogether without reason were better, then to be troubled with the capti●ua●inge of her that she let not belief Let reason therefore lead you to confer the scriptures together and try that doctrine of yours whether it be of God or not. The ballad. From sinners separate, God's son is, saith Paul higher than heaven seat, Above the powers all How with sinful hand make, His body then you shall Sir priests tell me this The answer. Truth it is that christ is up ascended How can sinful hands than make him say you Who ever so said or that defended Truly none, nor at this time doth now But this truth all christian men doth avow That after the words of God there spoken Christ's ●●eshe is there that for us was broken ¶ The confutation Here you answer as though Paul in the● seven. to the hebrews where he speaketh of Chri●●es separation from sins had meant none other thing but his bodily ascension into heaven. A●d then you deride the authors conclusion, as though it were no sufficient prou● nor good argument to say, he can not be made with sinful hands because he is ascended. As who should say though he be asended, yet is he here ●●yl. And for the making of him with sinful hands: you say that never man sa●ed nor defended it, nor doth at this time say or defend it. In very deed you are now all a shamed to say it, & far unable to defend it. But that it hath been preached I with many other which are yet on live can witness, And that it hath been written, resort to the answer that Anthony Gylbie made to my Lord of Whinchesters' devilish detection: and you shall learn that he hath half a lease that he tar● out of a book in Lyncolne minister, wherein are written these words in latin. O sacerdos, nun creavite, ●t dedi tibi potestatem creandi me? Quare si non sacrificas etc. That is to say (to your ledwe▪ understanding) O priest, have I not created the and given the power to create me? Wherefore if thou do not sacrifice. etc. If you credit not this, resort to the cau●iles of the mass & then learn of some expert master of grammar, what this latin word Conficere, signifieth. I shall recite you one of the cautyles to give you occasion to desire some priest of your acquaintance to show you the residue, for I am sure you dare not come so nigh the secrets of the mass yourself for fear of losing your sight. Si ante ●ō sacratio●em sanguinis (saith the cau●il) per●ipiat aquam non esse in chalice: debet statim apponere et conficere. That is to say. If he (meaning the priest) do verceyve before the conse●acion of the blood that there is no water in the chalice, he must in continent put water into the chalice & make it. If this be not the signification of 〈◊〉, in this place: then take your pen in hand and declare the meaning of this ●a●●yle, and the other which have the same word In the mean time I shall persuade myself that you think noless (what so ever you say) but that by the ●reathinge out of the words upon the bread, the priest maketh it the body of Christ and th● wine his blood. For you say it is a truth avowed and holden of all christian 〈◊〉, that after the words spoken there is christe● flesh that for us was broken. But let this matt●●r pass we have some what to say concerning the 〈◊〉 of Paul, Separate ●rom syniners, 〈◊〉 he whole course of Paul's epistle to the hebrews is none other but to prove that all the ceremonies and sacrifices of the law were but ●ha● owes of Christ and his one oblation once offered for all, and that the levites, high priests and ●y shope● (who had need to offer sacrifice for themselves) could never take away sin by their sacrifices. And after many words and strong arguments aplyed to the same purpose, he sayeth. It was convenient and meet that we should have such an high priest or bishop, holy, innocent undefiled, segregate from sinners and made higher than the heavens not having need (as the priests have) daily to offer, first for his own sins and then for the sins of the people. For that he did once in offer●ing himself. The law appointed men priests. etc. Now see what it is to be separate from sinners and to be higher than heavens Forsooth, not 〈◊〉 be after the sort of sinful priests which entered into sancta sanctorum once in the year with the blood of goats and 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 the tabernacle not made with man's hands, that is to say the true tabernacle which god made and not man the eternal covenant an Image whereof God commanded Moses to make the material tabernacle Into this tabernacle did Christ enter offering up himself once for all thereby finisheing the rede●●ysion of the sins of the world and now sitteth at the right-hand of God his father for ever. Wherefore sinful hands can in no wise make him, No they can not handle nor touch him he is separate from sinners He is none of those bishops or priests which did yearly sacrifice and yet remain upon that ar still and after their death rotten in the ground, for his flesh saw not corruption but rose again from the dead and was by the godhead taken up into heaven and there sitteth at the right-hand of his father sep●rate from sinners. But here you think yourself a subtile sophister & able to confound yourself (I judge you by your counsalours whom I know well enough) for I am sure you will say as your counsellors do, that for as muchas God's right hand is in scripture called his power, and his power is in all places at encent must needs follow, that Christ setting at the rygt● hand of the father must needs be in all places at once, and per consequence in the sacrament● of the altar really and bodily eu●n as he sitteth at the right hand of his father and ascended into heaven and shall come again at the last day to judge the world by feyre for so he fits at the right hand of his father which you say is power. Think you these coū●●lour● of yours could not if need ●er prove by the same 〈…〉 little Image or Idol sith god's power is there present: But how standeth this with the consecration by the virtue of the words spoken over the bread and wine? If Christ be really present in all places then is he so at all times. Then I pray you tell me (to your consaillours I speak now● how the words change the bread & cause real presence of the thing that was there before? By this your argument you prove that we aught to honour all, things that we se in the world with divine honour, because Christ is there really present. See whether you be not those same false prophets that Christ gave us waneing of. For you say lo here is Christ and ●o there is Christ But we a warned that we shall not believe you Behold (say you) he is in the desert behold he is in the privy chaumbres. But we know you well enough. ¶ The ballad Thou sayest by thy coninge that y● makest him Who hath made of nothing Both y● & thy kin Heaven earth and all thing, contained there in What lie is this The answer A great lie surely of your own making Ye can do it well as here doth appear It seemeth that the devil did keep you waking That so shameful will lie without fere His servant you are whose badge ye do bea● The which is lying, and our Lord doth say● That the devil is father to liars alway ¶ The confutation. Well answered and much to the purpose You jest as thought it were nothing like the truth that your priests should say or think themselves to work this feat by their con●nge. 〈…〉 shall s● that cunning is agreate thing, and helpeth as much in this mattier, as quick conue●aunce doth in ledgardemayne. For when qui● conue●ghaunce faileth: the budget must serve. And so saith your ca●tyles o● your actual habits, that is to say gestures, if they fail, yet Christ the high priest shall play the budget and help out with the mattier, so be that the intentional habit be not lost. Be not ashamed of your master and father therefore who is and ever hath hen the father of liars. the devil your good Lord and master, who keepeth you still slepeinge in the drowsy dreams of your dearly beloved father of Rome. ¶ The Ballad. Thou wilt say with speed, It is not our act The word in this ded, taketh effect With the I Proceed, that thus dooste object Answer me to this. The answer. The priests that do say it is not our act But god by the word is worker of all They that so hath said no ●rue judgement lack● For so it is as after prove I shall The priest by authority spiritual But as a minister doth execute And god his creature doth there transi●ute ☞ The confutation▪ You say you will prove here after that those priests lack no true judgement which have ●ared that it is not their act to make the body and blood of Christ, of bread and win● And thus you say that the priest doth but execute by authority spiritual as a minister, and God it i● (you say) that doth his creature 〈◊〉 Clerkly handled and like a man well 〈◊〉 in the Scriptures. They lack no true judgement, but wherein I pray you? In the scripture you will say. I deny it. For a great numbered of them you speak of, have no true judgement in the scriptures. Yea, they scarcely know whether there be any scripture or not. Well, grant they do know that there be scriptures. Yet can not this so true judgement of theirs be in them for Scripture knoweth no such transmutation. Wherein is it then that these men have so true judgement? It is in por●ouse and Miss all matters, I am sure, that you mean. For therein hath been their most study. Well they lack no true judgement, you say, for so it is even as they say, which thing you will prove, in this sort I trow. Because the Priest doth by authority spiritual, execute as a Minister, and Christ doth transmute his creature. A sirrah, here is pithy gear, and strong arguments. Your words sown as much as if you should say, it is so, and why is it so? Forsooth because it is so. I would all the subtle Sophisters of Oxford and Cambrige, would print these your arguments in their minds, and by occasion thereof, enlarge the limyttes of their art. For in all their subtleties, they find no such subtlety as yours is. But in that you say that the priest executeth and God transmuteth: a man might demand you this question. Whether of these two, is the chief workman, the priest or God? Your old fathers of Italy would say the priest, for they would alway have the most worthy first named. But what shall we say to the matter? Is not the priest the chief workman? Yes truly, in mine opinion, for he receiveth all the money for the work when it is done. Yea, & God never medieth with any transmutation, till the priest set him a work. Yea, and when any man setteth the priest on work, and covenaunteth with him for certain wages. God must wait at an inch that there be no let when the priest will have his trinkets transmuted. It shallbe best for you therefore, ●●her to sai that the priest doth all himself, or else let the priests from hensfurth, execute no more till God bid them, and when the work is finished, let God play the chief workman, and receive money for the whole. ¶ The Ballad. What word hast y● n●ddy, Wherewith Christ Of bread his body, As y● dost crack (did make With all thy study, An answer ●ake And tell me this. The answer. Without great study th'answer is made Me think ye presume very high This is my body Christ plainly said You dare be so bold to say he doth lie Not so sir, say you that word say not I Yet doth your words prove, sir by your licence That to Christ's words ye give no credence. ¶ The Confutation, ☞ An answer (you say) is made without great study. And so say I, a fol●s bolt is soon shot out. Then answer you after this sort. methinks ●say you, that you presume very high to tell Christ that he lieth, when he saith, this is my body. And than you answer in the person of th● author, sa●yng, Not so sir, say you, that word say not I And then you think to 〈◊〉 him kyndelye. Your wo●des sir, say you, by your licence, show that to Christ you give 〈…〉. But now sir with yoore licence I shall with great study declare unto yo● that the author giveth a great deal more credit to Christ's words than you do. This is my body saith Christ, when he had divided bread among his disciples, declareinge thereby the unity of all them that should believe in him, his mystical body and membres the church and congregation of the faithful: and that all these faithful should be partakers of all that he should deserve in that body which he had taken of the immaculate virgin, even as there were partakers of that bread which they had eaten. Thus do we credit Christ's words which you credit not for when he saith, this is my body, you ●ynd him to change the substance of bread with those words or else you comp● him but a found'st talker for you say that before those words be spoken the bread is but bread, and so you compel Christ in transmute his creature in his Apostles hands, mouths or healies For certain it is that Christ had delivered it before he spoke those words. And concerning the wine Mark saith, that they had all drunken thereof before the words wer● spoken so that here you are driven into a strait other you must say that Christ had some oth●● cast to transmute his creature than you know● of, or else that he transmuteth none at all. For I am sure you will not say that he delivered it before it was transmuted. ¶ The ballad. Hoc est corpus Meum, you bring Where with ye clock us, Under your wings But for your purpose, It serveth nothing Who saith not this? ☞ The answer Hoc est corpus meum first Christ in brought And to all his apostles gave the power 〈◊〉 ministers to do, that himself wrought By the words spoken to them at that hour Which words are stronger than castle or ●owr And so shall endure unto the last day When all gods enemies shall vanish away ☞ The confutation Not much unlike is this your Answer, unto the answer that Cayph●s gave in the counsel house at jerusalem when the high priests and bishops consulted how to bring Christ to confusion. It is expedient, quoth he▪ that one die for the people, l●st that all the whole nation should perish, meaneing that it were ●●uche better that Christ, being a seducer; should suffer death, then that all the people should by his doctrine be seduced and perish. But yet his words were true in an other meaning, that is. That it was expedient for one to die to redeem the sins of the people for other wise the whole people should have perished, Even so in your answer you mean ●hat Christ did first bring in these words Hoc est corpus meum, to the intent to turn the bread into his body by the virtue of the same words, and that he gave his disciples power to do the same by the pronouceing of the same words which your said meaning is very false as Caiphases was but in an other meaning it is very true that you say. Christ was the first that brought in these words Hoc est corpus meum. And he gave his Agostl●s power, yea commanded them to do▪ the things that he himself had done. But herein lieth all the mattier. What it was that he had done, Changed bread into his body, say you. But the Evangelists say● that he had divided bread and 〈◊〉 amongst his discipl●● And these words are stronger than either castle or tower, and shall endure even to the last day, when all you gods enemies shall vanish a way. ¶ The ballad. To be the word, Naimely of giving Which christ our Lord, Spoke to his beleveing Disciples at board, as they were sitting Their faith to increase The answer Christ promised his disciples before That the bread that he would give to them all Was his flesh which he for evermore Would give for the life of all men mortal first, at his maundy by power supernal He fulfilled his promise giving than truly To them his own pure natural body Secondly Christ on the cro●se himself gave In his one body as he walked here And so suffered there all man kind to save But at his maundy as it did apere He gave the same body, but this in mind bear Not as on the cross, rightly to define But under the form of pure bread and wine ☞ The confutation ☞ Here you think to show a point of great learneing and knowledge. Christ promised before, you say, that the bread which he should give was his flesh. And this promise you say, he fulfy●led first at his maundy, where he gave them his very natural body, and secondly one the cross but at the last you add as it were, a correction of your former words, and say. Not at the maundy as on the Cross, but under the forms of bread and wine. ☞ Well, then Christ 〈…〉 ●●crament● about two years before he did institute it. Y●a mary say you. And I pray you what said he? For soeth these very words. The bread that I shall give you, is my flesh. ● sy●a, ●owe you have us at a shrwede bay, Christ told his Disciples long before that the bread which he would give them was h●s flesh, and upon this Prophecy did in very deed give theym'breade at his maundy. How can it be then but that this bread was his flesh●● Who is able to with stand this reason, thought● you? Forsooth every one that savoureth those things that be of the spirit of God. And if you will apply yourself a while, I shall teach you to withstand it also. And first I shall demand this question was not christ as well able to perform his word then as he was at the time of his maundy? Yese forsooth. For he had before that time fed five thousand and mo●, with .v. barley loves and ii ●ishes▪ And did he not say as much of the bread then as he did at his maundy? Yese marry say you▪ for he said these plain words. The bread that I shall give you, is my flesh. A sirrah then I see well this bread was not to be traunsmuted (as you call it) when Christ came to the maundy for that was done two years before. For I am sure you will not say Christ lied when he said the bread that I shall give is my flesh, for if you would, your former words should be turned to your● reproach. But here your counsellors perchance will now give you counsel to run to intent of Christ when he speak those words and to say that he intended not then 〈…〉 the bread● 〈…〉 did after ward. And that is true for he meant nothing less than the sacrament in those words. But if you once enter into the intent, them must we have liberty to declare Christ's intent when he distributed the bread saying this is my body. And then I doubt not but your intent will be proved a ●olyshe intent, when you say that Christ gave his natural body unto his disciples two manner of ways, that is to say first in form of bread, & again on the cross. For the Scripture witnesseth that Christ was always found in the form of man, and very man in all points (sins only ●●cepted) and therefore could he no more be in the form of bread than we may. And it is as well to be gathered of the scriptures that the priest ●ourneth the bread into his own body when he sayeth this is my body: as that Christ did by the same words change it into his. ¶ The ballad. He is but a beast, knowing right nought Which saith that hoc est, Are words to make aught This is manifest, In a wise man's thought Where knowledge is. The answer. He is but a beast I may say right well Which will say that God who is almighty In saying, this is, did not truly tell That, that he could do, but rather did lie What ●east is he this, that dare plain deny If god say, this is, it is not so sayeth he Because reason will not there to agree What and if God wild a thing done to be Abou● course of nature and yet god would That man should do it though no word had he But only a deed as Moses' old 〈…〉 him lay down the 〈◊〉 he did hold Which when he had done it was a serpent Then taking it by the tail as is told It turned to a rod even continent God said to Moses this should be the sign To declare his power before king Pharaoh The which after he did by the power divine Without any word that scripture doth show This doth your high reason clean over throw That, hoc est, can not be words to make aught Much more than no words, ye will say I trow Chief being spoken by him that all wrought Yea spoken by him, that I grant say you Well, that objection I will defer now ☞ The confutation You answer even as you have learned and form your arguments, I po●●e ad esse, as you are wont to do. Go● could make that his body, whereof he said this is my body, wherefore you conclude and say that it is so in veri deed, meaneinge, I am sure (as you have said before) his natural body. For in signification we grant and defend that it was and is his body, his very natural body therefore you will have it, and because we say nay to that, you charge us with denieing that Christ affirmeth, because reason will not thereto agree. And then to declare yourself to be none of them that followeth reason in your doings, you bring fourth an unreasonable similitude to declare your unreasonable faith. And you bring your similitude a minorie admaius. Moses, you say, was commanded to cast down his rod, and so he did, having no word of consecration at all, and yet it was turned into a Serpent. And taking the serpent by the 〈…〉 the commandment of god, it 〈◊〉 to a rod again. This was done you say● through gods divine power without any word ●t all, Much more able therefore is god to do the like with his word. And then you triumph and say you have laid reason flat on the ground. Ualiantlie fought. But now after your triumph let us return to your similitude and see how it serveth for this purpose. Moses' thinking it far unlike that he being a man without eloquence or goodly utterance of speech, should any thing prevail among the Egyptians whom he knew to be men of great learneinge and wonderful arts: was by this means encouraged. God commanded him to cast down his rod, and incontinent as he had so done, it was turned into a serpent. Here I might demand, of you how this proveth your purpose: seeing that the rod was turned into a very serpent in nature form and shape, colour, quantity and all other utter appearance, and not into a serpent in the form of a rod, as you say of the bread. This doth your foleishnes appear so plainly that a man would wonder how it should come to pass that you or any other reasonable creature might be so blind in judgement. But considering that your reason is in prison and captive to your fond opinion, I marvel so much the less● at your blind ignoraun●●, both in the pykeing out of your similitudes so far vn● meet for your purpose, and also in answering so slenderly to things that you would seem to have utterly confounded. ☞ The ballad If▪ I say to thee, This is my head It must so be, Before I so said Or else with a lie, I have the fed 〈…〉 ¶ The answer Ye forsooth sir, but now if ye should tell This to a doom beast them durst I depose That he could scantly vnder●●ade you well For he can nether judge, head, eye, nor nose But tell this to a man, and I suppose He would think you to be full drunk or mad To point him to know his leg from his hose For he would think in that he full knowledge had But now my knowledge may me here beguile For may hap, ye be a man of gravity And therefore again I will turn my style And will speak to you in this thing sadly By your example ye mean full madly That christ pointed to his body natural What scripture have ye I would know gladl● That christ meant not there of the bread at all If in the scripture that will not be found To believe your fancy I am not bound Mary, your example your parte●trew to try Saith if thirst meant not so, he made a false lie ☞ The confutation I can not a little marvel at your folly which driveth you to take in hand to answer to that you understand not yea & that more is, to deride and laugh to scorn your own folly, making as though you understood the mattier thorough lie, when in very deed you utter yourself to be in the clean contrary way. I pray you what do you mean by your merry talk about your dumb beast? I think you would say a brute beast which hath not the gift of reason to deserve & judge things & therefore you say you durst depose that he could scantly understand the authors words if he should hear them But I pray you how standeth thy with the captivatinge of your reason. Is it not all one to have reason captivated and to be a brute beast? An infant that hath not yet the use of reason, what differeth it from a brute beast? And yet hath i● reason, but not at liberty that she may do her office. Even so the man that hath his reason captivated to any opinion, is ●conserneinge that opinion) even as a child or brute beast. So that in your scoffs and geste's wherein you would seem to be pleasant, you make an ape of yourself, and toyewyth your own shadow And then (wyttily and like an Hosyar) you liken the example of the author, to the appointting of a man to know his l●gge from his hose. This done, you turn to your grave st●le again as though your former words had been excedeing merry and pleasant. And madly you say the author meaneth by his example, that Chrste pointed to his natural body when he said This is my body and in this you declare yourself not to understand his meaneing, and yet you would s●me to answer him to the full, saying that you would gladly know what Scripture the author hath to prove that Christ meant nothing of the bread when he spoke those words. For if it will not be found in the scripture: you are not bound to believe it (you say) for it is but his fantasy. And so you conclude, that the author sayeth by his example, that if Christ meant not of his natural body, he made a falsely. I amsorie friend Hogard that your judgement is so slender, that knowing this to be an example you can not perceive where of it is an example, What reasonable man would be so mad to brabble about a thing so foolishly as you do unless he were either a very fool or else had his reason so captivated and were so married to his opinion, that he could see nothing that maketh against him? The Author intendeing to declare that these words (This is) are not words wherewith aught may be made: bringeth this example of himself. If I tell the sayeth he, that this is my head. These words, this is do not make it so: But it was so before I spoke those words. Other wise I should not say truly when I say This is my head. For if the speakeing of the words should make it my head: then should it not be my head till the words were spoken. And so wet it a lie to say it is my head, when in deed it were but in turning from some other substance to be my head And this example proveth that it Christ had meant by these words (This is my body) that the bread was turned into his body: no doubt it was his body before he said it, or else he had, lied in s● saying, which thing is not possible, that is that the verity itself should lie wherefore he meant no such thing. But in saying this is my body: he intended to declare unto his faithful disciples & in them to us) the mystery of his church and congregation which is of many made one even as the bread is of many grains, and the wine of many grapes. As you mought have easily gathered of the sta●e next foloweinge if your reason had not been captivated. ¶ The ballad. Well them to say lo, This is my body Hath not made it so, Thou sayst with small study Wherefore shortly go, Make other words redi These will do no service. The answer. Here lo ye triumph like a noble fire As though ye had proved all that ye speak Which is that our saviour christ was a lie● When that he did say when he bread did break This is my body, his power was to weak He could not perform that he there did say He must seek other words that to convey. ☞ The confutation ☞ Yet you harp still on one strenge and that soundeth all a garre. He triumpheth (you say) as one that had proved all that he had said, as in deed he hath sufficiently, and then your understandeing is no better but to burden him with the affirmeing of that which he never thought, and no marvel for you have captivated your reason to your fond flyshly opinion, and ●●icke fast upon your common argument, A posse ad esse. And then you conclude that who so ever denieth the thing to be done, denieth that god is able to do it, declareinge yourself to taste nothing of the spirit of God but altogether of the flesh even as the fleshly Caparnaites did which would have eaten him even as he went on the ground, because he said that they could have no life in them unless they did eat his flesh, meaneinge thereby the belief that they should have in him to be the spiritual food & so ea●e him by faith. For if he had spoken there of the eating of his natural and real body in the sacrament it should follow that all such as die before they receive the Sacrament● should have no life in them, that is should be dampened. And contrariwise, all that 〈◊〉 once receive the sacrament, should never dy● that is, never be damned. For he sayeth. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood tareth in me and I 〈◊〉 him, And again he shall 〈…〉. I would you would credit saint Augustyne upon these words or else yourself put of your carnal eyes and put on the spectakles of the spirit, and know that the words which Christ spoke in the vi of john are spirit and life, and not gross and carnal as you take them. ¶ The ballad. What if in scripiure. Were written one line Wherewith our saviour, Thy god and mine Into this nature, Did turn bread and wine Couldst thou do this? ☞ The answer What if in scripture there be one line As there is in bede which I before tell To prove that our Lord doth thy god & mine Did consecrate his body flesh and fell Against them which chiefly ye do repel Nay, amity, sa● you that Christ did so d● Could you master parson do the same to Ye for sooth sir, Christ did that for our sake And not for th'apostles at that time alone For priests for that purpose than he did make giving power to them all every one To consecrated his body when he was gone saying do this, in my remembrance Which to this day hath had continuance Ye I grant say you that the Lord did say● Do this in mi commemoration Then is it no more that well see ye may But a remembrance of christes passion It is left for a remembrance I know And yet Christ's true body as I will show The pascal lamb offered in the old law Was of Christ's offering can only ●igure The rock of stone out of which the Jews 〈◊〉 Water flowing out, for them 〈…〉 Which stone figured christ as ●aith scripture Then if the sacrament be now no more But a figure only, than these before Were as good then as is the sacrament But christ was a priest much more excellent Which made amends for our transgression Leaving his sacrament of such perfection That where as the other were figures only His is both a figure and also truly The same thing that is figured thereby The which is christes natural body This to believe I think ye will refuse Ye will rather leave christ▪ and follow the Jews Saying how can this fellow give to us His flesh to eat, it doth seem, ●e do thus ☞ The confutation Yet once again you will not beware of the proclamation. ye will always have one kn●ck of your own invention Christ consecrateth his body flesh and fell now, before it was body ● soul, but now it is flesh and fel. It availeth not to lay the proclamation any more to your charge for you are at a point already which way you will avoid all the dayngers thereof. It was told me that the same day that you were sent for to the counsel for your misshapen answer: you were at dinner in gracious street with a man of no small reputation, a friend of your● (I will not say a maintainer of you in your found fleshly faith and th●r you d●d not a little glory in your great conquest as you thought▪ in so much that by your bold brags, you brought a man of the country who was there present, so far in love with your book, that he bought one of them of you, thinking his money well 〈…〉 he saw the messengre that came to ●etch you to the counsel, but then he began to repent him of his bargain, and belike wished his money in his purse again How now master Hogherd, quoth he. ●ushe man quoth you. All shallbe well enough. For once I am sure of this. Before may day, they can take no vantage at any thing that I have written. And then if the worst fall, I can deny it again. If this be true (as I am credibly informed that it is) in conscience I would wish that you would do that you say you can do, If you will not: I would wish that you were compelled to do it, that men might see all your ●unnynge both in canting and recanting. But now to our purpose. In your answer you endeavour to prove, that these words (Hoc est corpus meum) pronounced by the priest, are of strength to ●ourne the bread into the body of Christ. How well you perform that purpose, shallbe easy enough to be perceived of them that lust to scan your words to the worthiness. first you would seem to make answer to the objection which the author maketh against this argument, Christ did it ●●go the priest may do it. Grant (saith he) that there were in scripture any one line written wherewith Christ made his body of b●●ade should, it follow that thou canst with the same words do the same? yea forsooth (say you) for Christ made his Apostles priests for the same purpose, giving every of them power to consecrate his body after his departeinge. And this you ground upon this text of scripture. Do this in remembrance of me. The godly learned, need not to have your words made 〈◊〉 plain than they be of themselves. But for their sakes that be yet weak, and to confound the obstinate and hard hearted I will open them to the uttermost, that if you have any shame in you, it may drive you to acknowledge your lack of knowledge and misbelieve. Or if you be utterly without grace: it may cause your counsalours (not being altogether desperate) to take better advise ere they encourage you to the like folly as you have herein declared. first therefore I note, that you say Christ made his apostles priests to the intent they should consecrate his body. And herein I might doubt whether Christ made them priests at all or not, yea I am certain that you have no scripture to bear you in this assertion that they should be made consecrateinge priests to consecrate and offer sacrifice, more than every christian man is to offer up his own body a lively sacrifice to God by beareinge the cross of Christ and crucifiing the flesh to the world. And after this sort. I read that he made all them that he washed in his blood priests. Apoca. l. That is to say all the faithful believers of his death and resurrection. Other priesthood I read of none in the new testament nor of any other priest then only Christ who is the eternal and everlasting priest, and other priest or priesthood, is there one named in the new testament. I read in Paul's Epistle to the Corhinth. that God hath appointed certain membres in his congregation, to whom he hath given certain singular gifts. first he hath ordained some Apostles, some prophets or preachers, some doctors or teachers, some prowres or maiestates, some curares of dseases, some succurers of the needy or keepers of hospitality, some governors or 〈◊〉, some having divers kinds of tongues, and some interpreters of languages: but amongst all 〈◊〉 I find no mention of these cons●rat●inge priests. And the same Paul, writteing unto Timothe conserninge the choseinge of ministers: calleth them bishops and deacons, that is to say wachmen and ministers, and not sacrificers. But here perchance you will say, that by this deacon or minister: is mente your priest, your consecrater, & sacrificer. Not so sir. For Paul described him not to be such a fellow as your sacrifier is described to be in the cautils of your Mass, The first cautile (saith your Mass book) is that the priest which will celebrate Mass, do after the beast manner prepare his conscience through pure confession, that he do vehemently desire the sacrament, and intend to work his feat, that is to consecrate or make Christ's body and blood. That he know by heart how to be have himself in all his doings. And that he have than●rlie and devout gesturs. This is your sacrificer. But saynete Paul's man is an other manner fellow He must be chaste, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not foloweinge filthy lucre, having the mystery of faith in a pure conscience. Yea he saith not he will have his man confessed before he minister, but he will have him proved and tried and so to minister, having no fault whereof he may justly be rebuked. Thus see you friend Hogarde, that in scripture you have no testimony for your sacricer● and consecrateinge priests. But yet I know well you can not as yet persuade yourself to be confuted in this behalf, for you have placed a piece of scripture to the contraie do this in the remembrance of me (say you) was a plain commandment to the apostles to consecrate Christ's body, and by this commandment, hath every of them power to do it, as well judas as Peter, And then I am sure if a man should ask you the question, you would say that the most villainous creature in the world being a priest (as you call them) hath full power to do the same by breathing out a few words out of a covetous heart and blasphemous mouth, with a mind full of all abominable and wicke● thoughts. Tush tush you say he is but a minister. It is god that doth the deed. But I pray you sir by your leave. Whose member is he? Paul sayeth that who so toupleth himself with an harlot, is the member of an harlot, and he that worketh vice is the servant of sin then tell me, I pray you, whose minister he is, The member of an whore, the servant of sin and the minister of Christ? Non coherent. The●e things agree not. It is necessary, that they be first membres of Christ and afterwards ministers. But here your counsellors will say (for I take them to be more subtle than you by reason that they are trained in a more subtle kind of living than you are) that the wicked ministers in the church are the ministers of God as well as the godly For judas who was by the testimony of Christ, a devil: was notwithstandeing Christ's minister and Apostle. Ye● he cured diseases and wrought other miracles as well as the other Apostles did. Crack me this nut say you. Forsooth sir you shall son● have it cracked, and I beseech God the kernel may do you good. I grant that as judas was the minister of Christ and wrought miracles: so are all priests that do resemble judas the ministers of Christ as judas was and may do all that Christ hath commanded them even as he did. judas was a devil but not 〈…〉 (judas being present) that one of them which put his hand into the dish with him should betray him: the disciples began to ●ske him one after an other, which of them it was. Is it I said one, is it I said an other. They saw nothing in judas his conversation, wherefore they should suspect him more than themselves. But your sacrificeinge priests are so far gone that their conversation declareth them to be the membres of the devil, and the ministers of ba●●e. They are of those priests to whom God saith by his prophet. You offer defiled bread on my aultare, and yet you say. Wherein have we polluted thee? Even in that (saith the Lord) you say the table of the Lord is but a vile thing. What other thing I pray you do your sacrificeing priests? They ●an not a bide the lords table, nor the lords supper, they must have an aultare and sacrifice, They can not be content with communion ●t the lords table according to the first institution in honest apparel: but they must have a private Mass in masking cot●s bashed full of turns & halt turns, be●keinges duckinges, crosseyng●s, kysseynge, tosseynges and tumblinge, besides the irreverent breathing out of words upon bread and wine, and then holdeing them up to be worshipped as gods, Yet once again mark the words of the prophet. Which of you (sayeth the Lord) shutteth the doors and setteth fire on mine altars ●●thout her? I have no delight in you saith the Lord of hosts, and will receive no gift at your hand Now tell me whether these words agree not with your priests proverb. No penny no pater noste●. Let me see if your 〈◊〉 will do this heavenvly work of theirs without hire. Yea will they not compel men to give them wages for doing it? How say you by the Masses at burials, are not men constrained to have them and to pay for them? It shall not need to rehearse their dirige groats, marriages money, christening crisomes, beadroll bribes, and such other pillage. If the king should take of every hoseling person (as they call them) yearly ii pennies. as they do at easter: what would be said trow you? If he should suffer none to be married without a tribute: what gurdgeinge would there be among the people? Well I say no more but the plague of God shall fall upon th●se hirelings, and make them despised of all nations, because they have not kept the ways of the Lord. But now for your text of scripture (do this in the remembrance of me) whereupon you grounded your foolish faith of consecrating and sacrifi●eing priests: we must first consider what it was that Christ bade them do in his remembrance. Consecrat his body and blood say● you, for that was the thing that he himself did. But they that understand the thing aright, say that he commanded them to divide bread and wine among them as he had done immediately before. For Paul, speaking of the same thing sayeth. So often as you eat this bread and drink this cup: you shall declare the death of the Lord till the come. The eating of the bread therefore and dryackeing of the cup: are the things that Christ commanded his Apostles to do in his remembrance, and not the consecrateinge of his body and blonde as you say. So oft as ye shall do these things (saith Christ) ye shall do it in the remembrance of me. As though he should have said So oft as you shall come together and be partakers all of one bread and cup to th'intent to declare yourselves thereby, to be all members of one body through the faith you have conceived in me: you shall do it in the remembrance of me: the only head of the body whereof you be membres, calling to your remembrance this thing that I have here done to certify you of your redemption by my death & blood shedding and that every one of you, is as well partaker thereof, as you are of this bread & wine, which I have divided amongst you. This is the true meneing of, do this in the remembrance of me, & not as you fantasy giving power to priests to consecrate Christ's body and blood. Well now you proceed & think to wine your spurs by vanquisheing a man of arms of your own appointing. For I never knew any that was so foolish (o●lesse it were one of your teaching) that would say that this sacrament was nought else but a sign of christs passion. For we (aga●st whom you fight so manfulli) do believe & confess that it is in signification the veri body & blood of Christ, that is (the natural proprites thereof considered) spiritually applied, & do declare unto us the efficacy & strength of the body and blood of Christ in geveing life to our souls: & the coupling of us together into one body by faith. These a● things of great importance & valour in the eyes of the spiritual membres of christ, though in your fleshly eyes which cannot dicerne the thing of the spirit, they be vile and of no valour. Well, you go forward with the trial of your masteries with your own man and lay sor● to his charge with certain exampls. The paschal lamb you say which was offered in the old law, was an only figure of christs offering wherein you help● the scripture, for it was als● a remembrance of the deliverance out of Egypt. But to our purpose, another exemple you b●inge of the rock of stone out of the which flowed water, and that stone you say figured Christ, and that is true But I think it a man should ask you how the stone figureth Christ you would shape him bu● a slender answer, Well I will answer for you this once, and say, that in that the water issued out of the Rock t●elye without any labour of man's hand by dygeinge or heweinge therein: it signified Christ, the rock and fountain of living water, who giveth the water of light for nought without any of our merits or deserueinges. And right so doth the paschal lamb being without spot and offered up by the whole multitude of the children of Israel, eaten greedily with wild 〈◊〉 and unleavened brcade: declare that Christ our paschal lamb should be without spot of sin, offered up by y● who● multitude of the house of Israel, ●●at is for and through their ●innes. For the sins of the people were the cruci●iers of Christ. The greedy eating of it, with wild lettuce (an herb nothing pleasant but bitter) and unlcuended bread (a thing unsavoury) declareth the ●aruent sayeth whereby the fa●ethfull do ●●te this lamb ●hriste, and bear the betterness of his cross, nothing regardeing the werishnesse and the unsaviourie taste of the 〈◊〉 which lemed to be utterly destroyed on the cross. Now apply these ii examples of yours to the 〈◊〉, & tell me what inconvenience though in 〈…〉 they be accommpted as good as the ●acr●ment. For even as it was said of the sacrament, this is my body: so was it said of the paschal lamb. This is the passover of the Lord, and of the rock, the rock was 〈◊〉. So that it this word is 〈…〉 to chance substauncent hath changed the substance of the lamb and rock also. But to be brief in this 〈◊〉 your fond al●ercion that the sacrament is both the sign and thing signified: I think it scarte worthy to be spoken of. But yet considering that it hath been a common error, and certain men of godly zeal and knowledge have gone about to defend it: I will somewhat lay in i●, to the con●entacion of the consciences of the weak. The sign and the thing signified, are as the father and the son, or the master & the servant are. That is to lay contrary, after ●uch sort that the one can by no means be th'. same that the other is, in one and the same respect. As the master, in the respect of the servant, by whom he bears the name of a master, can not be truly called a servant, nor contrariwise: right to the sign of any thing can not (in the respect o● the thing) be a thing 〈◊〉, Wherefore I conclude, that the bread being y ● ●ign o● the natural body of christ: cannot be y● sai● natural & real body. I am not ignorant what fond cavillations some men use about this matti●●, referring the sign to the accidents of bread and the thing signified to the sustance of the bread turned into Christ's body. But to make accidents the signs of substances, when they be not visible nor otherwise sensible, and a sign must necessarily be sensible: I think it not worth the speak●inge of. Some hau● gone about ●o prove by a similitude, that one thing might b● both ●igne and the thing signified also. The bread (say they that the baker setteth forth for a sign, is 〈◊〉 b●ead and yet signifieth unto us that there is bread● to sell, so that that bread being the sign of bread: is both the sign and thing signified. This reason is apparent, and hath some similitude of the truth, But if a man weigh it well, he shall perceive that the bread which standeth in the window for a sign of bread within to be sold: is not that bread which is within to be sold. And otherwise is it not a sign. For as it standeth in the windome to be sold●it is bread to be sold, & not the sign of bred to be sold. And where you charge us with incredulity of the jews: we charge you with no less For as they could not believe that Christ's flesh might be eaten by faith: so can not you but look to have him grossly and (even as they did) that he could no other wise perform his words, than if he should convey his body into such creatures as men do use to feed upon. But we believe, and are by our faith assured, that he is able and hath given us his flesh to eat by faith according to the faithful words of Augustine Believe and thou hast eaten. And so eating him we shall never die, Whereas you fleshemongers y● do daily (as you think) devour him flesh blood & bones, are not like ●o escape the death everlasting (unless ye repent) because ye have handled the most worthy sacraments of the body & blood of Christ so unworthily. Is making it a sacrifice for the quick & dead for all diseases of men and beasts, for all places the (evident tokens and signs of gods just wrath towards us) Yea makeinge it utterly a mattier of merchandise, together money together and the ministration thereof a kind of occupation and work for money to maintain idle bellies, that neither can nor will learn to be profitable to the public weal. ¶ The ballad. Thou hast the word, wherewith god wrought Man beast fish bird, And all of nought Canst thou good blood, Therewith makeought That unmade is. The answer. We have the same word I do plain confess And for all your gay talk so do not ye The word which as saint john doth express Was the second person in trinity Without whom there was nothing mad saith he By no words written it was that he meant But by his son, one with him in deity Which is with us now in the sacrament Yet haply here ye will to me object And will ask me if Moses did not write The veri words which by god took effect In createinge of man as he did recite Yesse say I, well then say you gone is quite All your hole matter which ye do defend Except that your priests will stoutly stand bite That they by the word can work to the same end Well hit forsooth and spoken like a clerk Ye make as though ye walk in the light But like one through blind ye walk in the dark For whom that in scripture hath any sight May soon see that ye take not scripture right God made all this world we see of nothing Doth it follow that man can not by gods might turn things from their nature, god being wiling Now what gods will is in the Sacrament I have told you before by his words plain In the which the priest is but an instrument For the words that christ spoke he spakes again As christ himself bad, which was not in vain For after the words our Lord by his power Creates nothing new there that is certain But bring there the presence of our 〈◊〉. ☞ The confutation Here you would seem to see far in a millstone You have espied (you say) that though we talk never so ●eolilie, we do not confess (which you confess plainly) that we have the same word wherewith god made all things And your proof is substantial, for you say that, that word is the second person in Trinity whom we have not because we believe him to be in heaven. But you have him you say in the sacrament, And then you use a figure of Rhetoric called preoccupation, but I think you knew not his name before. You prevent your adversary and solute his obicetion before it is made. And wittily you say, yesse. Yea, sayeth your adversary, Then is all your mattier quit gone, except your priests can help and stand stoutly by it. Well hi● say you than and like ● clerk you brawl after your accustom manner till you have declared yourself, as well seen in the scriptures as ever you were. But some what to open your ignorance, I shall in few words declare unto you, how we confess that we have the word wherewith God made the world. In the first of Genesis it is written that God said. Let the light be made, and forth with it was made, & right so of all his other creatures. This is the word wherewith we know that god made all thing of nought. But you would seem to be o● a more fine opinion, and like an Ape you imitate the thing that you can not attain to. You would gladly seem to be of the opiniog of them that affirm God and▪ his word to be all one. For you say the word wherewith God made the world, is the second person ●n trinity. And 〈…〉 you thrust him in to the sacrament and say that we have him there, as though there were no way but that, whereby we might have him present. And truly after such ●orte as you dream him to be present, it is not possible to have him present other wise then in some material substance. For you are not content to have him present as the Israelites had in the wilderness, but you will after their exem●ple 〈◊〉 unto Aaron to make you gods that you may see with the carnal eye: for the Israelites were not so gross but they knew that the calf which they had made was not God, but thought they could not honour nor call upon God otherwise then in a visible form. They were not persuaded of his invisible presence in all places. Even so you though you confess the invisible presence of God in all places: yet you appoint the second person in trinity to his place in the sacrament, thinckeinge that you can not otherwise have the fruishion of his presence then by a visible shape, the cause whereof is none other, but the lack of ghostly sight which should show him you in his word, although in the mean time I do not deny (yea I protest and defend) that the spiritual eye seth him in his sacraments also, the substance of the sacraments remaineinge in their natural property of substance Thus much have I said for the haveinge of the word wherewith God made all things of nought. Now you conclude upon the author saying. Sir, you take not the scriptures aright. For you say God made all this world of nothing. And doth it follow therefore▪ that man can not by Gods might turn things from their nature God being willing they should ●o do. In this piece you utter your own ignorance & lack of leavening. Who would be so made as once to surmise so fond a conclusion as you inveigh against as gathered by the author upon this infallible truth, God made all the world of nothing. Doth it follow thereupon, say you, that man can not by the might of God turn things out of their nature? As though there had ever been any so made as to conclude so fondly. The author endeavoureth nought else but to disprove this arguments, We have the word where with god made all the things of nought, why should we not then do the same by pronounceing those words? And you clean contrariwise inveigh against him as though he had formed his argument in this wise. We have the word wher● with god made all world, ●rgo man can not by gods might alter things out of their nature. Thus you proceed in your blindness & after your notes set in the margin to confirm your saying, you sai you have told us before by the plain words of Christ▪ For the priest you say is but a minister & like a parrot speaketh Christ's words again, even as christ himself bad (say you) but there, with your leave you lie, I can nolenger forbear you when you belly my master. For he never bade any priest or Apostle to speak those words again, No if he had biden them speak them again: he would not have bidden them (as the cautels of your Mass do teach) breathe them out with one breath without any pauseing or stop, as though the pronounceinge of the words might make or ma● But he ●ad, say you, and that not in vain. For after the words spoken our lord doth by his power create no new thing but bringeth there the presence of our saviour. You were so loath to maim your rhyme that you have well most 〈◊〉 your reason For how agreeth this with that which you have said in the beginning? The Lord did by his word turn the bread into his body, & the wine into his blood. And here you say that after the words spoken ou●e Lord bringeth there the presence of our saviour. A man might here demand of you what Lord and saviour you talk of. But it is but folly to content about the moan shine in water (as the english proverb goeth) I will therefore leave you to your wise reason's, till you have answered this confutation accordeing to your brags. ☞ The ballad If with that scripture. Thou canst not make The least creature, How wilt thou take On thy weak nature, Of bread to create The Lord of bliss. The answer. Ye think all proved that ye only, say And yet to say truth ye do but contend By reason to keep your faith at a bay Chargeinge men with that they do not defend If we said that a making did depend Of the priest or of god which we deny Then had ye some cause your time thus to spend Christ is there but how we seek not to spy Therefore leave of your foolish blasphemy It is against our faith catholic and true That ever christ should be created anew. ☞ The confutation You seem to account reason enemy to faith and to think that the brute beasts which are not troubled with reason: may soon apprehend the perfection of faith. You do but contend by reason to keep faith at a bay charge 〈◊〉 men with that they do not defend (with that you can not defend, you should have said) but if we said (say you) that the making did depend either upon the priest or of God, which we deny (whom we deny, you should have said) then had we some cause thus to spend our time. But for as much as you neither believe, that it dependeth of the priest nor of God but of the devil as it seemeth for one of them must (bear the stroke in the mattier) you can say no more but so it is, Christ is there, How it is w● can not tell, nor are desirous to know. Yet yernestly you exhort us to leave that we never used (sense it pleased god to open our eyes for it is against your catholic & true faith, you say, that Christ should be created a new. Here is neither head nor tail, but only an heap of words to fill out the line & make the ●ime. You have said before, that the priest as a minister pronounceth the words, & god doth his creature transmut, And now ye deni it. It dependeth you say of neither of them. Yea you conclude before that our lords dodie is their flesh and fell, and in an other place you say body and soul & besides y● god and man: but here you say he is there, but how, you seek not to spy. But I conject yet an other meaneinge in your words (though in deed they sown no less than I have said) you will say perchance, that in your saying that you seek not to espy how he is there, you mean that you seek not to know whether he be there passable or impassable, mortal or immortal whether he be there in such sort that the mose may eat him, the fire burn him, or the wet corrupt him. Though you see all these things chance to the cake which you call consecrate & turned into the body of Christ, yet you▪ will not seek to spy whether Christ suffer these things or not Well then, if a man should demand of you whether the body of Christ do suffer these things eating of the mouse, burneinge an● corrupting: what answer would you make? You will not go from that you have written I am sure you will not seek to spy. I will believe it, but I will not search it. And I pray you what will you believe? That Christ is there naturally and really, & that there remaineth nosubstaunce, but only the substance of Christ God & man. Is there none other substance there? What is it then that filleth the mouse's bealye, & burneth in the fire changeth colour and putrefieth? My Lord of Winchester sayeth 〈◊〉 dentes for substance he sayeth there is none but Christ, who can suffer none of all this, and you say you will not seek to spy. Well then I leave you as one uncertain of his faith not knowing what to believe, nor willing to learn And as you exhort us to leave that is not in us because it is against your ●aith: even so I exhort you to seek for that you have not, that is the true understanding of Christ's sacraments For it is a gayust our belief (which is the one only faith which is grounded upon the sure foundation of the scripture) that Christ should be naturally and really present in an●e other place then heaven, till he come to judge the world ¶ The ballad Having no word, of consecration Whereof the Lord, hath mad relation Thou teachest abroad thine own invention Which is amise The answer Who is more blind than those that will not see What botes it to show you any scripture 〈…〉 Which to your reason is hard or obscure But yet once again to do you pleasure Ye shall hear if Christ made no relation In scripture of the consecration Christ to his disiples these words did say I long to eat the paschal lamb saith he With you my disciples for now is the day Of the sweet bread, I pray you note and see How the truth with the figure doth a gre Christ was the true lamb which y● propheter sa● Should truly fullfyl the Moysaical law Christ eat the lamb there as the law did will Then to show that that law was expired He ordained his law, that law, to fulfil Which while the world lasts shall not be finished That lamb was himself which he ordained To be offered daily in remembrance Of his bitter death and painful sustraunce Note here I pray you▪ one thing by the way Christ said I long to eat with you this day The passouer, by which he did declare What great love ever towards them he bore Which was not only the law to fulfil But also to show them more of his will Which was that he would give unto them all The perfit pledge of the life eternal Performing his promise made to them before By giving them his flesh for ever more Among them so to be communicate That thereby they should be incorporate In him than, and he in all them also What greater love could he to his people sho But yet with this love our lord did not cease For in his most pain his love did increase Remembering man kind said, Sitio Not only for drink, but man's health also. It was that our Lord did then so sore thrust See how this word both agree with the first I l●ng (sayeth christ) to eat the pascal with you On the cross, I thrust, in which I note now That by these true words christ doth signify The desire that he had to give his body according to his promise saying thus. The bread that I will give plain to discuse Is my flesh, here lo▪ was his first promise And at his maundy he fulfiled this Under form of bread he did it there give With spirit & life whereby all such should live As did receive it by faith worthily On the cross also he gave his body To suffer painfully he was there crecte Thus ye see that as christ did say, I thirst So did he before that he at the first gave himself (said I long) which words proveth the furst body & the last both one to be Christ at his last supper as I before say Took bread and blessed it and broke it truly Gave ye to his disciples and without stay Bade them take and eat this is my body Then to show them what body he meant, truly He added these words to those he had spoken Saying, which for your sins shallbe broken What body was broken for our trespass? No sign of a body I think ye will say But even the same body which borne was Of the virgin marry, void this if ye may Then took christ the cup, blessed it the same way● As before saying: this is my blood truly Which shallbe shed for the sins of many What blood did christ shed for our sakes I think ye will say his blood natural This against your errors very much makes Which to a void be able ye never shall Then christ bade them do this in his memorial What (this) was it that he bade them do Was it not to bless, to break, and to give to And to speak the same words that he there spoke Wh●n he the bread into his hand did take Which words were the words of consecration And then bad that on the same fashion His apostles should do, now thus ye see That the true words of consecracton be In scripture, though you those words skan To be but only thenuention of man Yet one word of Christ to mind here I call Christ to declare that the law moisaical He would hold fulfil for the which intent He took the cup & said these words evident This is my blood in the new testament Syggnifieng that the old law was spent With all the blood of beasts which did figure The blood of Christ above all blods most pure Now mark them, if y● when christ did plain say This is my blood, should mean none other way But in figure only, what were it more Than the figures of the old law before Nor yet so much nether if ye mark well For in the old law as I before tell Very blood to figure, christes blood truly They did offer, upon the which thing I Gather that and if the wine be wine still That Christ at supper did the law fulfil With a figure of blood, which cannot be For a figure is fulfilled we do see In the verity and not in figure Chiefly in this thing ye will grant I am sure This holy sacrament god did fore see A great comfort for all his people to be For which he ordained a priest and king The same truth to figure in his offering Christ is a priest sayeth Paul after the order Of Melchisedech, now note here further Melchesedech was both a priest and king So was Christ's also as recordeth writing Melchesedeth was a king and yet truly No mention is made of his progeny Which doth, signify that christ was a king His father unknown without beginning Melchesedech was king as scripture saith Of Salem, which as saint paul plainly hath To the Hebrews that, that doth signify A king of peace, to whom he did apply Christ our saviour and ye beside this Melchesedech of Christ a figure is In this priesthood, for as scripture doth say● He brought forth to Abraham in the way Bread & wine, In which act scriptture doth t'him call The priest of the most high god eternal Christ likewise gave the forms of bread & wine Of which Melchsedech was but asigne Here may hap one thing ye will ask of me Where saint Paul doth note them thus to agree For nether the prophet there nor S. Paul Of bread or wine speaks not one word at all But doth Melchedeches priesthood apply Unto christ when that he most painfully Did offer up his flesh and blood most pure Unto his father this is plain scripture All this is true, I will it not deny. Yet for my purpose again to reply To M●lchesedech, note here that he came Forth with bread and wine to mere Abraham Gluing thanks to God for his victori Which to his priesthood pertained truly Then that being his order how can ye Dinie christ of the sa●ie order to be Sith under the kinds of bread and wine he Gave his body, this in scripture we see And though s. Paul do no bread or wine name Doth he deny Christ's priesthood in the same? Nay forsooth for as of Christ is spoken He gave the body which is broken For our sins at his last supper ye know And then what though s. Paul nothing show Of bread and wine, yet their priesthodes agree So much the more, if this well noted be Melchesedech did not offer with blood And yet did he figure Christ's priesthood When he on the cross offered his body Unto his father with his wounds bloody How should that be & no bread or wine there Yesse forsooth the scripture will it well bear sith Christ gave his body as I before say Under those forms because they should alwai Remember his death by that sacrament. Which death the bread & wine did represent That Melchesedech offered, here ye see How both their priesthodes herein do agree For Melchesedeches order did attend Unto Christ's offering on the cross at the end Which offering there done was done once for all To be offered so, again he never shall. ☞ The confutation ☞ No man might worse have complained of the blindness of them that will not see, than you yourself (friend Swynharde) for if you would but once open your eyes, and read the places of scripture that you bring for your purpose and weigh them with the circumstances: I doubt not you would be ashamed to wrest them ●o far out of tune. And where you do now gather of Christ's longing before his supper, and his thirsting on the cross, that the first body, that is (as you say) the bread, and the last, which died on the cro●●e, are all one: I doubt not but if you would way the places with worthy judgement, you would soon be ashamed of your writing, and of all your fond reasoning about the same words. For the first Luke saith When the hour of supper was come, he sat down and his. xii. Luke. xxii Apostles with him, and he said unto them. With great desire have I desired, to eat this passover with you before I suffer. For I say unto you, from hensfurth I will not eat it, till such time as it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. etc. ☞ What spiritual eye can see any other thing in these words of our saviour: then that he desireth greatly to declare unto them before his death by the eating of that lamb which was the remembrance of their deliverance out of Egypt, and the figure of himself, being the unspotted lamb that was preordinated to take away the sins of the world: that from thence forth they should no more use any such sacrament or ceremony to declare his coming in the flesh, because the time was then come where in this sacrament and all other should be fulfilled by his death upon the cross, which was, is, and shallbe our deliverance out of the spiritual Egypt, and the sufficient ransom for our sins. This was the fulfilling of the figure by the verity, and not as you fantasy the old to be fulfilled by the new, in that you say that Christ ordained his law to fulfil that law So that you make one law figure of another and one sacrament to be the thing signified by an other. But you say, that lamb was himself which he ordained to be offered in the remembrance of his bitter death and passion. Here might I ask you which lamb? you will sat. I am sure, the true lamb that the prophets saw which is himself. Well then hath he made himself a remembrance of his own death. But I pray you, esteem you him so little as so? Do you occompt his death of more, valour than himself? No sign or remembrance of a thing, can be so good as the thing itself, more than the goodness of the shadow can be equal of value with the body. If Christ therefore daily offered up, be the remembrance of his bitter death: then is his bitter death better than he himself. And yet you have not all done with Christ's longing. One thing you say, you would have noted by the way. And that is that Christ longed to eat the passover with his disciples, not only to fulfil the law, but also to show them more of his will, which was, that he would give them a perfect pledge of eternal life, according to his promise made to them before (as is mentioned you say in the. vi. of John) giving his flesh to be communicate, that they might thereby be incorporate in him and he in them. And then you join hereunto, his thrusting on the cross. And upon this longing and thirsting, well and clarkly you gather the great desire that Christ had to fulfil his promise that he made when he said The bread that I shall give is my flesh. ☞ Men of learning and judgement in the scriptures, may easily perceive your ignorance in this matter. I will not therefore go about to open it to them. But for their sakes that be not yet fully grounded in the true understanding hereof, I will take somewhat more pains in the opening of this ignorance of yours, nowithstanding that I have spoken somewhat largely of the mattier in the confutation of the former part of your answer, where you claimed this, promise of Christ as you do here. ☞ Mark therefore good christian brothers, to you I speak that are not yet so fully instructed in Christ, but that you savour somewhat of the Phariseis leaven, & yet would gladly be delivered from the blindness of error, mark I ●ay how far wide this man is from the true meaning of Christ in this place. He hath none other occasion at all, to appl●e this piece of scripture to his purpose: but only for that there is bread mentioned. It fareth by him even as it doth by the patrons & defenders of Purgatory. For wheresoever he findeth bread named in the scripture, there he layeth a straw, as a mark to 〈◊〉 his common places by: even as they did when th●i found ani mention of fire. John Frith hath opened their folly at large in his disputation's upon Purgatori Would God I were able to do hal●e so much in this matter▪ But take it in good part (dear brethren) that I shall written. And if you shall find it consonant & agreeable to the scriptures: then embrace it, and give God the thanks, otherwise, hold it accursed, and do not once open your eyes upon it. For the more that should embrace my doctrine being ungodly: the greater should my dam nation be. But being ascertained by the spirit of truth, that I teach nothing but that I find in the book of truth: I am bold to bid you mark and learn the true understanding of these words of our saviour Christ: The bread that I shall give, is my flesh. ¶ Our saviour Christ, perceiving that the fleshly minded jews, ●oloed him more for that they had eaten the loves which he had multiplied, then for the miracle or wonder that he had wrought: ●oke occasion at ●he question which they asked him saying, Rabbi or Master, when camest thou hither? as who should say we have sought and laid wait to know how and when thou shouldest pass the sea, but we could not perceive any ship prepared for thy passage. Hast thou therefore conveyed thyself over by miracle as thou didst multiply the five loves? He took occasion I sai here a●, to declare unto them that all his words and deeds are to be looked on with the spiritual ●ie and not with the carnal. And even at the first he sayeth unto them. Ye follow me not because you have seen the wonders. But because you have eaten of the breads and are satisfied. As who should say you pretend a wondrous desire to see the wonders that I work▪ as men that would thereby be alured to embrace and follow my doctrine: but your intent is none other but to be fed at my hand and so to live Idly without labour and travail more then to wander up and down after me. But I shall tell you what you shall do if you will follow me. Work for the meat that perisheth not, but that remaineth into life everlasting which meat the son of man shall give you. For this is the meat that god the father hath appointed. Then said they. What may we do to work the works of god? He answered unto them in this wise. This is▪ the work of God that you believe in him whom he hath sent. Then broke they out in their own likeness, and against their wills, uttered their false dissimilation, saying. What miracle workest thou therefore, that we may see it, and believeth? What works dost thou? Our fathers eat Manna in the wilderness, as it is written. He gave them bread from heaven to eat. But our saviour said unto them. Moses gave you not 〈…〉 or very bread in deed from heaven. For that is the true bread that descended from heaven, & giveth life to the world Then said they, Lord give us this bread always. These men's mind was altogether upon material bread. Let us never lack this bread, say they. Well Christ maketh them answer. I am the bread of life, sayeth he, who so cometh unto me shall not hunger, and he that believeth in me, shall never thirst. But I have told you, that you have both seen me, and not believed. Here may you learn to eat the bread that Christ speaketh of. It needeth you not to prepare tooeth and throat, neither bealye nor stomach, but believe & you shall not ●onger nor thirst. You shall have plenty of his heavenvly food. He that cometh to me saith Christ & he that believeth in me. To come unto Christ and to believe in Christ, is all one thing, as appeareth by the words following. Every thing that my father giveth me shall come unto me, and I will not cast him out that cometh unto me. For I descended from heaven, not to do my will, but his will that sent me. And this is the will of mi father that sent me: that I should not lose any thing that he gave me, but that I should ●ayse it again in the last day. Yea, this is the will of my father the sent me: that every one that seeth the son and believeth in him, should have life everlasting, & I will raise him at the last day He that seeth the son and believeth in him. To see and to believe, to eat and come to Christ is all one thing. The jews therefore murmured at his words in that he said. I am the living bread that descended from heaven and they said. Is not this the son of joseph whose father and mother we know. How saith he than that he descended from heaven? Behold these carnal jews, how grossly the● applied all things to the flesh. They were altogether flesh, & could perceive nothing of the spirit. Christ endeavoured to teach them the misteri of his incarnation, who being the form of God thought it nor obbri to humble himself into the form of a servant, & they would needs understand his words to bespoken of the body whi●h they knew to be borne of Marie the carpē●ers wife. Is not this joseph's son said they whose father & mother we know? How standeth this then with his words when he sayeth I came from heaven? But he answered their fleshly talk saying. Murmur not among yourselves. For no man can come unto me, except my Father which sent me draw ●im and I shall raise him in the last day. It is written in the Prophet. All shallbe taught of god. Euer●e one that hath heard of the father and hath learned: cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the father, save only he that is of god. He hath sen the father. By this seeing of the father, may you easily (most dear brithern) perceive, what seeing, what eating & coming unto Christ it is, that is meant in all this Chapi Even the ghostly eateing, seeing and coming unto Christ. For though a man be never so much of God: yet shall not his fleshly eye see God. And to declare his meaning more plainly he saith. He that believeth in me hath everlasting life. All that he hath spoken before of the eating, coming & seeing, & all that he speaketh afterward, is contained in those few word●s he that beleleveth in me hath everlasting life. I am the bread of life: Your fathers did eat manna in wilderness and are dead, This bread is it that came from heaven, that if any man shall eat of it, he shall not die. I am the living bread, which came from heaven. If any man eat of this bread he shall live for ever. And the bread that I shall give: is my flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world. Here is the whole mattier, here have we a plain promise (say they) that the bread that Christ should give to his disciples at his maundy was his flesh. Oh blind asses. How long will it be ere you pierce the flesh & enter into the spirit? Because his outward words so●ne flesh. You will not once think upon any spirit, but even as the jews did, stick still in the flesh & fleshly eating. But because you will not seem to murmur & contend as the Jews did saying, how can this man give us his flesh to eat: You will believe (you say) that it was a thing very easy to do. And then you reprove the Jews of unbelieve: because they were not so gross as you, to believe that Christ would thrust his natural body into a piece of bread, that they might without grudge of stomach eat it. You declare yourselves neither to savour the spirit, nor yet to understand the phrases of the letter. The jews could take the phrase a right, & say how ●ā this man g●ue us his flesh to eat? They doubted not how he should give them his flesh in the form of bread: for they knew, that after the phrase of the Hebrew tongue, he meant by bread food. As though he should have said. your fathers were fed in the wilderness, with Manna, and yet they are dead, but the food wherewith I shall feed you is my flesh, not that you shall eat it as your fathers did Manna and so die, but I will give it for the life of the world, so that if you will believe and put your trust herein (for that is the eating of my flesh) you shall never die the death of the soul, for the body is mor●al and must needs die. That this was his meaning, is plain by the answer that he gave to their contention. Certes (sayeth he) I say unto you, except ye eat my flesh & drink my blood: you shall have no life in you. Who so eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day. And then he openeth the phrase of the Hebreve more plain and saith. My flesh is very food, and my blood very drink, he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, tarrieth in me, and I in him. And as my living father sent me, and I live through him: even so he that eateth me, liveth through me▪ Now tell me (you fleshmongers) if the jews had then torn Christ in pieces with their teeth, and eaten him every morsel, should they have lived through● him? Oh beastly blind. This is the food that came from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead: but such as ●ate ●his toad shall never die. If this be spoken of the sacrament how agreeth it with the words of s. Paul to the Corinth? who so eateth this bread and drinketh this cup unworthily eateth & drinketh his own judgement. How chanced it that judas was not saved by it? How can your priests that break they fast with it daily, be damned? Yea if this be spoken of the sacrament than is that also spoken of the sacrament when he sayeth Except you eat my flesh & drink my blood, you shall have no life in you. And then how could the thief that was crucified with Christ be saved? For I am right sure he never received the sacrament. Yea in what takeinge be all the children & younglings that die before they come to years of discretion to receive this sacrament. Thus may you see (dear brethren) how 〈◊〉 these men are from the spirit, and yet they would seem so spiritual that they have captivated all their senses & reason also to believe the thing that was never taught, and that after such sort, that they declare themselves therein to be most f●eshely nothing perceyveinge the words of Christ when he sayeth The words that I speak, are spirit and life. It is the spirit that giveth life, the flesh profiteth nothing. Now friend Hoggherd. I think you be ashamed of your misreporting of this piece of scripture, or if you be pas●e shame: yet I trust the godly minded do so plainly perceive your slender judgement herein that they will give you leave to lie till your tongue fail you ere they will credit your words. But now cometh the hardest piece of work into hand. Yea and so clearkly handled (as you think) that no man can be able to avoid your reasons. At his last supper you say, Christ took bread, blessed it, broke it, and gave it to his disciples and bade them take and eat, this is my body. And then to show them what body it was (say you) that he meant: he added these words. Which for your sins shallbe broken. Then (subtile, lie) you ask this question. What body (say you) was it that was broken for our trespass? And then you fantasy with yourself, that we will not say a fantastical body, but even the same body that was borne of the virgin Marie. It seemeth by your words that you think the apostles to be of your opinion concerneing the plurality of Christ's bodies. To show them you say, what body it was that he mente: he said, the body which for our sins was broken. And still thinking every man to be of your own opinion, you ask us the same questian. Whereunto we answer even as you conject, no sign of a body, but the self same body that was borne of the virgin Marie. Uoide this if you may, say you. Alas poor fool, why triumphest thou before the victory? Thou thinkest that all is overthrown with this one weak argument. Which in veridede is none argument but a mere cavillation, as shall most plainly appear to as● many as know how to form an argument. Your argument (or rather cavillation) is formed in this wise. This is my body which shallbe broken for you, but the body that shallbe broken for you was borne of the virgin Marie, Ergo this body was borne of the virgin Marie. I think a man had need to have you to the university to teach you to understand your error in this argument. For I perceive you have persuaded yourself that every thing that may be brought into tourme of argument is infallibly true. Other wise you would not triumph upon this argument I am sure. Consider I pray you, your mayor prosition, if you know what a mayor or proposition meaneth, & then tell me wherther it be not a doubtful proposition, for a man holdeinge bread in his hand or rather having delivered bread unto other to say this is my body which shallbe broken for you Is it not as like that he should by the proposition, mean that the bread is his body in signification, as in substance. Yesse verily, & more like, considering the party that spoke the words, and the cause why that natural body of his was conceived & borne of the virgin Mar●e: & again the hears to whom the words were spoken & the bread delivered. For there be in the bread two things which do plainly declare these 〈…〉 by that the bread is the principanl food of the body yea & in the language that he spoke, all kinds of food are called bread Christ therefore being the only & universal food of the soul: is right well declared & signified unto us by this bread. The other thing is the making of the bread of many grains being but one bo●i when it, is made. And thereby is well declared the unity of all faithful believers in Christ, who being many in numbered, are in faith but one mystical body of Christ. Lo here is your mayor proposition, Ask your counsalours how your conclusion followeth hereupon, I pray you, & then tell me more of your mind. I will spend no more time with you now about this argument, because I think you may say by the terms of the art, as a certain priest in the city of London said by this term transubstanciation, I could never know (quoth he) what this word transubstantion should mean. Well you labour to prove by the same argument, that the wine is the natural blood of christ and then you descant upon Christ's (this) when he said, Do this in the remembrance of me. What this was it that he bade them do, say you, was it not to bless, to break, to give, & to speak the same words that he spak●? No fool no. But by those visible signs bread & wine, to call to remembrance the heavenly fedeing of th●ir souls and the inseparable unity of themselves by faith Neither be the words the Christ's spoke, the words of consecration, or able to ●ourne the substance of creatures: more than the name Pe●tus which Christ gave unto Simon, was able to turn Simon into a rockey or stony nature, when Christ said. ●ues Petrus et Supper h●nc petram et cetera. The words therefore art the words of Christ, but to call the words of consecration, is a mere invention of men, As for your note in the magine, is so well applied to the purpose: that I leave it for men to laugh at thinking it no need to confute the which fighteth with itself, and is ready to ●ourne again and take you by the face in divers places of your Answer. Then ye call to remembrance (you say) yet one other thing, Christ taking the cup, you say, intended to fulfil the moysaycal law in all points that is to say, to make the wine his blood which was prefigured by all the blood that was offered in the old law. Wherefore (you say) if the wine remain still, he fulfilled the law● with the figure of blood, so that one figure was the fulfilling of an other. Lord god, wha● beast could be so blind as you show your sel● to be, were it not that the spirit of error reigneth in you? It appeareth by your words that follow, that you have read the Epistle to the hebrews, and yet you are not ashamed to say that Christ instituted the sacrament to fulfil the lawe● Paul sayeth the offering of himself on the cross, was the thing that was pre-figured and you say it was the sacrament. I● this your fantastical opinion, be the truth: how chanceth it that in all the writteinges of the Apostles: can not be found one word of any such fulfilling of the law. Paul wryttin● of the sacrifices of the old law even of purpose, to declare the meaneing of them, declareth them all to be fulfilled in the one only offering 〈◊〉 of Christ on the cross. Also to the Corin. intendeing to declare the true meaning of the yearly passover lamb, he sayeth Christ is offered 〈◊〉 our paschal lamb. Let us therefore bank 〈◊〉 not in the leaven of old malice and wickedness, but in the sweet breades of sincerity and verity. Loo, here he applieth the passouer Lamb, unto Christ offered for our sins, and the sweet breades to our godly conversation and living. And yet (as one thoroughly blinded with affections) you will conclude upon an inconvenience. If the wine be not turned into very blood (you say) it is not so much to be esteemed as the figur●s of the old law▪ For they were no figures of blood but very blood in deed Here you declare yourself not to have captivated your senses, for if you had, you would not judge the wine to be a figure of blood because it is red (for other cause 〈◊〉 is none why you should so conject) but you would with us confess that as Paul teach●th, the wine representeh unto us the wonderful union of all the faithful believers in christ that they being infinite meinie in numbered, are ●et but one body through the faith in Christ jesus which knitteth them together even as ●he sin●es do the body. And this is declared (saith Paul) by that the wine is made of ma●ye grapes, and is yet but one cup of wine, even one body, so compact together, that it can 〈◊〉 no manes be disevered. Thus do we see that 〈◊〉 wine is the figure, not of Christ's blood because it is red or liquid as blood is: but of ●he inseparable unity of Christ's mystical mē●res, his faithful church and congregation of faithful believers, We see also that it is the fi●ure of Christ's bloodshedding because it is one of the two principal kinds of food wherewith ●ur bodies be fed, For therein it declareth that ●he belief in Christ's blood shed for our sin●es is one of the two principal kinds of the food of our souls. For other food hath the soul none, than the lively word of god, wherein are taught these two things only. The flesh of Christ broken & his blood shed for our sins These things only (I say) are taught in the scripture. For who so learneth not these things learneth nothing in the scripture. What other thing doth the old law than bring us to Christ? And than what doth the new testament other than teach us this lesson. We grant you therefore, that Christ did force this sacrament to be a great comfort to his people, after such sort as I have said. Yea we grant that christ did also force your lying miracles whereby you establish your fleshly presence: when he said. Beware of false prophets which come unto you in sheeps clotheing, for inward they are ravening wolves. Yea he giveth us warneing of your lying signs, and of your busy demonstrations, when you say, lo here is Christ, lo●ther is Christ. Believe them not, sayeth he. Tha● was meant of the pigrimages, say you, but when they were used you denied it, as you do now ● of the sacrament. So loath you are to be driue● from your starting holes. Then come you out with Melchisedech. God appointed him, say you, a priest & a king, even to figure this same offering. And then a while 〈◊〉 bustle blindly about this kingdom & priesthood so long till you fal●e into your old flesh against and thus you say. Melchisedech brought forth bread & wine unto Abraham in the way & in 〈◊〉 same act scripture, you say, calleth him y● 〈◊〉 of the high god eternal. Then applying the mat●tier to your purpose you say christ did likewise give the form of bread & wine, of the whic● Melchisedech was but asigne. Well it mayst Hogard. melchidech brought forth bread & wine unto Habraham to refresh him after his great travail in the recovering of his kinsfolk and country men: & you, like a divine of the grossest, sort, say that Christ did the like thing, when he gave to his disciples, the tourmes, as you say, of bread & wine. Thus your words sown, if a man take them as the lie, but I am right sure you would say, if you were demanded your meaneing, y● as Melchisedech offered up ●read and wine in sacrifice: so did christ the forms of bread & win▪ For you say a little before the sriptture accounteth Melchisedech the priest of the highest in that he brought fourth bread & wine to Habrahan. And in so saying you should amend the matter well. for if Melchisedech were the priest of the highest in the deed them was Habrahan the highest god for he offered bread & wine to none▪ other but Habrahan. Then do you for see an obietion & prettily ye prevent that might be said against you. And in soluteing y●, as you think, you say that in bringing fourth bread & wine unto Habrahan Melchisedech gave thanks unto God for Habrahames victory. And that, you say, was a 〈◊〉 of his office. As who should say he made a sacrifice of bread and wine, & in very deed in that he refreshed Habrahame and his company with bread and wine, when after their great traville their bodies needed refreing: he offered an acceptable sacrifice unto God, and so did Christ when with his body and blood offered one the cross, he refershed our very souls But for the thanks that Melchsede●he gave unto God, if you▪ consider the places well, were done with a thankful heart and Godly words for he say Blessed is Habrahame unto the highest God that hath made heaven and earth: and blessed be the high GOD by whose help the enemies are in thy hands. But for your objection. A man might ask you● you say) how this deed of Melchisedeche may be thus applied, s●inge that, neither the proyhet nor Paulle maketh any mention of bread or wine, where Paul noteth them thus to agree, meaneinge of Melchisedech and Christ. But Paul (say you) doth apply Melchisedeches' priesthood unto Christ, in that he offered up his flesh and blood unto his father. This ye say is palayne scripture. And yet if a man should go roundli to you: I think it would trouble both you and your counsellors to find it in scripture that this should be Paul's meaning. For the place to the hebrews that you build upon: maketh rather against you therein. First (saith Paul) Melchesedech, is interpreted the king of justice, and then the king of Salem, that is the King of peace, whose parents and kindred are unknown, neither having beginning of days, nor end of life. For being compared or likened unto the son of God, he remaineth a priest for ever. If you had any little spark of the spirit of God in you: it were very easy for you to judge wherein Paul compareth Melchesedech unto Christ: Even in that he was without beginning, without endeinge, descended of unknown parents, & remained a priest, for ever But you are still in the flesh, and harp still on one string, as appeareth by your melody. And you dream that because Paul maketh no mention of bread & wine we will say that he denieth Christ's pristehode. For your fleshly understanding will not suffer you to understand any other priesthood 〈◊〉 Christ, then that should stand in the offering of material sacrifice, as bread, wine, fat lambs kids, goats, & such other. And by the same understanding you say that the bread & wine that Melchesedech offered (for so you place your terms of the bread and wine that he gave unto Abraham) figured Christ's flesh & blood offered on the cross Which assertion, how it agree●● with the scriptures: is eas●● to be seen of all 〈◊〉 that are spiritual & have the spirit of God dwelling in them. As for your pretty note that you ●et in the marge: I leave it to yourself, as a def●niciō of your own making. For w●l I wots it is not to be found in any writer worthy of fai●● but in such as you are yourself, besides that it is contrary to the true meaning of the scriptures, in as many places as this sacrament is mentioned. ¶ The Ballad. ¶ For Christ hath said Thou canst not shape One hear of thy head, white either black. How canst thou of bread, Then gods son make which in heaven is. ¶ The answer. This sta●e I have answered plainly before For still ye be harping upon one string Therefore to this I will answer no more But pray unto god that he will you bring Out of your errou●, but this is one thing Except ye believe as saith Esay. Ye cannot understand this hy● mystery. ☞ The confutation This sta●e (you say you have answered before For all is (you say) but the sown of one string And therefore you will answer no more. And then overcome with charity, ye, braced out in a prayer and wish that God will bring the author out of his error, not much unlike to him that having a beam in his own e●e: goeth about to pull a mote out of his brother's eye. And then strait way ye declare a shameful error of my Lord of winchester's▪ which you use as yours own concerning the understanding of this place of Esay, except thou believe, thou canst not understand. For the right understanding whereof: I could remyt you to the Answer that Anthony Gylbe hath made to my Lords Devilish Dete●tion in the C.x. seven. leaf of the same. But because you should put no lack in this confutation: you shall have it here. The words you wrist to your purpose, yea you falcify the text which hath. If you will not believe the cause is that you are instable. So that here the prophet speaking unto the rulers of the people of Israel, ꝓmising the deliverance from the force of their enemies, and perceiving that they did not credit his words: saith, If you will not believe this deliverance from your enemies: the cause of your unbelief, is none other but that you are unconstant and will not be faithful. This is the interpretation of them that follow the Hebrew The common translation giveth an other interpretation, and that is this. If you perish or be vanquished of your enemies: know that your unbelief is the cause thereof And this interpretation 〈◊〉 to follow of that which the prophet had said before, conforming king Achaz against his enemies, who had conspired against him. Thus saith the Lord God (said the prophet) their counsel shall not stand, their purpose shall not come to pass. And after few words he addeth If you will not believe: you shall not endure▪ As who should sai. If you will not believe this mi ꝓmes: I will suffer you to be ●o●ed out by your enemies, you shalt not continued though you escap these dangers that you be in now. Take it which way you will therefore, and you shall not make it for your purpose, unless you wrist it to far out of tun● (as you do) by the example of my lord of Winchester. But now for that you say that you have answered this staff before▪ I would gladly know where. I remember you say that never man taught or held it, and yet your own Doctors are full of that opinion. Which you shall find if you can entreat some of your counsellors to expound unto you a piece of the book called Sermons dis. In y●. Cxi. sermon on xiiii. ●onday after Triniti: are these pretty words, cited out of s. Banard, as you call him. O veneranda dignitas sacerdotsi, quorum manibus, tan● in utero virginis filius dei incarnatur. That is to your lewd understanding. Oh the dignity of priests, worthy to be had in reverence, in whose hands (even as in the virgins' womb) the son of God is incarnate. And a little before is said. Octavo deus honoravit sacerdotes in hoc quod sacerdos aliqualiter similis est Marie beatissime virgini. Primo, sicut beatissima vir go Maria concepit per quinque verba, verum corpus christi. Luce. i Fiat mihi secundum verbum t●um) sic sacerdos conficit per quinque verba, verum corpus. etc. That is, eig●ly god hath exalted priests in that the priest, is after some sort like unto Mari the most blessed virgin. First, as the most blessed virgin Mary did by .v. words, conceive the very body of Christ (Luke. ● Be it unto me according as thou hast said) so the priest doth with .v. words make the very body of Christ. etc. What should I rehearse any more of this blasphemous gear. But in the beginning of the same sermon in the first dignity, of priests, is this more than devilish affer●ion grounded upon the first of jeremy. Ego constitui te hody super gentes et regna. I have ordained the above nations and kingdoms. The words are these Unde breviter, deus exaltavit sacerdotes super omnes homines & super omnes creaturas. Unde quida●● doctor dici●. 〈◊〉 conditione estis homines, dignitate estis super omnes homines. Then doctor. Sacerdo● al●ior est regibus, felicror angelis, creator sui creatoris. That is in english Brieffely therefore God hath exalted priests a bon● all men, and above all creatures wherefore a certain doctor saith. If so be that ye be men: yet are ye of dignity above all men. And the same doctor. A priest is higher than kings, more happy than angels, and the creature of his creature. The ●okes are to be had wherein is more thereof them any christian ears can abide. ¶ The ballad A ●etter mind. The Lord grant the That thou mayst find, his verity which maketh the blind, In soul to see what his w●ll is. ¶ The Answer. I pray God g●ue ●yght to tho●e that be blind Then trust I to see your conversion For non● is t●er blinder that I can find Then you 〈◊〉 in your mad opinion All o●her people y● can cry upon That to bellue scripture they should agree And none farther from it the● you yourself be ¶ The confutation. The words of your, prayer, son well for yourself. What the meaning is, ye know best yourself. If god grant sight to the blind (you say) you trust to see the authors conversion. And doubtless so shall you, for so long as you be so blind as you be: It is not possible that you should see how the author was converted from your gross opinion though you mean an other manner of conversion for as you say yourself,, there is none blinder than they that will not see, And here you say you can find none blinder than the author is in his opinion, which you call mad (as fools do wisdom) umbrading him with the crying upon all other people 〈…〉 the scripture, when no man is farther from it they he is himself. Thus you have said, but such as have judgement in scripture, shall easily perceive by both your writings, how falsely you belly him. ¶ The Ballad. God grant thee, the▪ part, O 〈◊〉 Paul to play I mean to convert, From the Rom●she way And with a meek heart, God's truth to obey Who grant the this. The answer. Your prayer dependeth of a godly intent Which is that ye would have all men forsake There catholic faith in the Sacrament And your error in the place thereof to take But now for your par● the better to make Ye call the truth Romyshe as though that we Had received it of the popish see ☞ The confutation ☞ The author wisheth none other thing unto you (friend Hogharde) then that which Paul himself exhorteth all men to do, that is to be his foloers as he was the follower of Christ But this part of Paul which he wisheth them to play, in following of him, is to convert (as he himself saith) from the Romish way even as Paul converted from the persecuting of the christian faith, & with a meek heart to obey▪ gods truth. But as for one, nothing con●ented with the thing that he wisheth for you: you stomach the matter, and deny that you receiu●d it of the popish see. But yet you show not whence you received it, Neither do you bring any proves (other than your bare assersion) that you received it not of the popish see. I think you to be one of them, that use to affirm things, without any argument or reason for the probation thereof. I will therefore minister you occasion in seek up your arguments and reasons against you make answer to this confutation And by your leave, I will prove that you had it from the romish see. I would have you therefore, first to consider, what thing it is that we talk of. It is not the lords supper: but that toy of yours which you call the blessed Sacrament of the altar. Whence that came is evident to them that lust to see: for throughout the whole Bible there is not so much as one word of that popish invention. The supper of the Lord, we have there mentioned, & so declared, that comparing this toy of yours thereunto: we mai easily perceive that they be clean contrary. The Lord at his last supper, took bread, gave thanks & broke it Your Apes take bread & blow upon it breathing out certain words in the manner of enchanters & sorcerers, to turn the substance thereof, & they offer it up for a sacrifice. Christ distributed the bread among his disciples, and eat none himself, but your Apes devour all themselves, and give the people none. Christ celebrated his supper at the table with his disciples, even in his common apparel: But your Apes must have goodly garments made for the nonse, of all the colours, of the rayn● bow and at sundry rhymes sundry colours. Christ made no fond gestures: But your Monkers must have crossing kissing, becking, doucking, turning, tripping, with many pretty tricks, and at the last ●osse up all slovenlye, and bless the people with the empty cup. See you not how these two agree? Now let us see whence all this grare of yours cometh. Selestinus the pope ordained the praiere that the priests (your Godmakers) say when they ravish themselves to mass. Pope Damasus ordained Confiteor. Pope Gregory cau●ed Kyri●eleson to be said ix times together, Gregory and Gelasius gathered the Col●ctes, good gear I warrant you, if they be well weighed. The Grayle was of the same men's doing I trow. Telesphorus, invented the Tract, Notherus the Sequences, Anastasius, the standing up at the Gospel, Eutichianus the Offertory, Gelacius the Preface, Sextus the Sanctus, Pope Leo the iii ordained the Incense. Also the Secrets of the mass, are they not pope's parches clouted together to make the matter more saleable. Gelasius made Te igitur, Siritius, added Communicantes, Pope Alexander made Qui pridie. Pope Leo, Hanc igitur. Gregory made the petitions, Diesque nostros. The first Innocen●ius ordained the Pax▪ Sargius, the Agnus dei The first Alexander ordained that the bread should be unleavened. And then as you think, whence have we this your babble, so tossed and tumbled from this side to that, hoist up and laid down again. You must pardon me though I speak plain: for I take all such things as fools delight to play withal: for no better than babbles. ●ut ●o put the weak brothers out of doubt that I contemn not the lords supper: I ꝓtest, that among the things & ordinances that our saviour christ hath left with us. the lively word of God only excepted, there is none more profitable, & for our soul's comfort, than it is. And that therefore we ought to frequent & use it with all faithfulness, trembling & fear of the lord knowing that if we being the membres of the d●ust, should enterprise to come to the Lords table as partakers which him: we shall have our reward with the hypocrites, even in the utter darkness I exhort you all therefore (that glory to be the membres of Christ and called Christians) that in no case ye presume to receive this holy communion: unless you be inwardly the same thing that this holy misteri declareth them to be, that use it worthily. ☞ Say not therefore (friend Hoghard) that I rail upon the blessed Sacraments of Christ's body and blood (for I take God to witness and mine own con●ience, I reverence them as much as God's word willeth them to be reverenced) but that which I have written is against that abuse which the Romish Ruffians have set up and would maintain in the stead thereof. The ballad Lord grant that our head, king Edward the sixth May bury that dead God which is piste And get in his stead, thy supper not mixed Wi●h abuse popish. The answer Lord grant that king Edward which over us hath The chief primacy under christ jesus Truly to defend the catholic faith Which from the apostles did hole ensue And all heresy and popishness to subdwe That we may live under his highness so In the catholic faith which is most true that to the honour of god all things may grow I wonder much how ye durst be so bold As to pray so for the kings majesty That his highness should do as ye have told A deed before god of grate iniquity Which is that the dead god pixte he may bury Ye show yourself a true subicte in this Which doth point your king to such an office. ☞ The confutation ☞ Here you would seem to make a prayer for the king, contrary to that which the author taketh, and yet against your will (I think) it is the same, as it is easy to be seen to all them that can judge upon writings. But afterward you put men out of doubt of your meaning, and say that you marvel the autour durst be so bold as to appoint his prince to such an office, as to bury the dead God that is pixte. And by the same your admiration, you declare yourself to be altogether fleshly. For what spiritual mind could think it a thing unworthy a christian prince to bury, that is to extinguish● and put utterly out of memory, that most detestable Idol, which being a thing dead and without any lively signification: is named and taken as God? But no marvel though you be so fleshly in this matter, for the chief of your counsel, are not ashamed openly to affirm that the godhead is a corporal substance, because the● find in Genesis that man was made to the similitude and Image of God. ¶ The ballad That we may espy In that sign and token With spiritual eye, Thy body broken And thy blood plenteously Shed as is spoken To bring us to bless. The answer Who would think, lo but that this man meant well Seeing that he wyshith that we may all Se christes death there, for so sayeth the gospel But yet mark him well and perceive ye shall That under the name of this word spiritual As his Ballad before doth plain express And here a sign and token he doth it call Tak● 〈◊〉 it for no more himself doth witness But the catholic faith perfect and true. Is, we must believe that in the sacrament Is not only a sign where in we must view The death of christ with a godly intent But also that christ himself is present Flesh and blood, but how that he should be Reason cannot teach, therefore he must consent Unto faith, and then he shall it truely●se Now thus of this answer I make an end praying god his grea●e ●o us both to send. FINIS. Quod miles Hogherde. ¶ The confutation You have no more to say here, but that the author maketh this sacrament no more but a sign, where as the catholic faith (you say) leadeth us to believe that Christ is there present, flesh & blood. Which thing is very true but not as you takeit (For your words declare▪ your meaning to be that Christ's steshe and blood should be there after such sort that it might be eaten & sualowed in to our bodies by the orgains of the same, pointed for the office of eateing. But our belief is, and that according to the catho like faith of the apostles & fathers of the primative church that the substance of the bread wherein those accidents which we see do remain: is no more but a sign (as Paul teacheth) of the wonder full coupling together of all the membres of Christ in one mystical body, as the bread being made of many grains is but one body, and in like manner the wine. But the spiritual present of Christ's body in these sacraments, we never denied, kno●nge that as many as (being the unfeigned membres of Christ) do with sure faith in the promises of Christ use these sacraments bread and wine according to Christ's institution and first ordinance are at the same supper of the Lord as certainly made partakers of Christ's body and blood and all that ever he did or deserved for us in the flesh: as they are partakers of that sacramenttal bread and wine To this faith do we consent wishing that it would please the Lord to open the eye of you and your councollour that you may se and consent to the same Finis Imprînted at London by John Day and William Seres, dwelling in Sepulchres Parish at the sign of the Resurrection a little above Holborn Conduit. ☞ Cum gratia & privilegio adimprimendum sol●n.