A MOST EXCELLENT AND PROFItable Dialogue, of the powerful justifying Faith: Showing what it is to believe in God, and what wonders are wrought by the power of Belief, be it worldly or Divine; and what things do hinder Belief. Also how a man may hate himself, and by Faith forsake himself, and kill the deeds of the flesh. The effect of the talk is this: That he which believeth in God, and in his Son jesus Christ, is able by the power of that Belief, to mortify his flesh, with the lusts thereof, through the holy Ghost, and to serve God in spirit and truth. Translated out of Latin by Arthur Golding. LONDON Printed by N.O. for Samuel Rand, and are to be sold at his shop on Holborn bridge. 1610. TO THE CHRIstian Reader. GOod Reader, amongst the multitude of books both written and printed, that be at this day spread abroad in the world, I lighted upon this little Treatise of Faith: wherein perceiving a matter handled, so necessary & needful to be read and known of all men, especially in these dangerous (if not desperate) days, wherein iniquity have gotten the upper hand: and men are grown so blind, that they strive more about the chaff, then for the pure wheat corn itself, and content themselves to feed rather on the leaves then on the fruit of the fig tree; that is, more to talk of an imagined faith, then to know, have, and enjoy in themselves, the true, powerful, and living faith, 2 Thes. 1.11. Rom. 6.2.4. Prou. 15. which is a daily dying to sin, & rising to righteousness. Seeing the same, I say, a work so necessary to be known of all men, I thought it good, being also persuaded thereto by many that have found great benefit by it, to be a means for the printing of it; that whosoever have any zeal or desire to know the true faith, and to have it with the fruits thereof effectually in himself, as is said he may view himself in this little pithy Treatise of the powerful faith. The title with the Author's name was torn out before it came to my hands: but whosover was the Writer, the matter will show from whence it came. And so the almighty God which liveth everlastingly, plant his true fear and faith in our hearts, Rom. 5.1. Gal. 5.6. that being justified by this powerful faith that worketh through love, we may have peace with God, through jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. A MOST EXCELLENT AND PROFITAble little Book, concerning the true Christian Faith. The persons that talk together are Lewis and Fredrick. Lewis. GLadly in good sooth, friend Frederick, have I heard your talk both yesterday and today, and thereby I have learned many things which I knew not before; and this is one thing which hath chiefly moved me, that you have showed that our Lord commandeth not any thing which is unpossible to be done. He beginneth at the difficulties of obeying GOD'S healthful commandments. For I was of belief before, that (as it is commonly heard & taught) God's commandments are unpossible to be obeyed. Which persuasion (to tell you the truth) hath made me slow to obey, so as I never strained myself to obey with my whole power. Fred. The like hath befallen unto me also, and I could never yield myself truly and earnestly to obeying, before I believed that it was possible to obey: And truly hereby I have learned the force of Belief, which Belief maketh a man desirous and willing to obey: The effectual power & force of belief. And desire being afterward matched with power given of God, bringeth to pass that a man doth the things which he hath believed himself to be able to do, and so he is saved by obeying, as he was erst undone by disobeying. And so being led by the spirit of Christ, he fulfilleth the righteousness of the law, not walking after the flesh, but living after the spirit: which righteousness is therefore called the righteousness of the law, The righteousness of the law, and why it beareth that name. not for that it maketh the believer righteous, but because the law requireth it. For the whole performance thereof is Christ's, because it is brought to pass by his power and spirit, living & working in those that are his. The law then commandeth, & Christ fulfilleth, & so the praise is due, not to the commander, but to the performer. Nevertheless it were to small purpose to believe that it is possible to obey God, unless a man do also know the way how God may be obeyed, without the which obedience faith is dead, & without faith no man can be saved. Belief without obedience is dead: But this I would have you to be persuaded of my Lewis, that the discourses both of us and of all others are (to say no worse of them) unprofitable, if they train us not to obedience, and to the renewing of the man. Lew. These things are true Fredrick. Therefore that I may far somewhat the better by your communication, I pray you show me by what mean I may attain to obey God. For inasmuch as you have showed me by your talk, that it is possible to be done, I have conceived a desire of obeying. Fred. O my Lewis, A godly & Christian wish concerning obedience. would God that I myself were rightly obedient, to the intent I might lead thee by the hand, to obedience. As now it is impossible for me to lead you further than I myself have attained unto. Lew. Yet notwithstanding I believe you have proceeded further forward than I have done, & therefore I beseech you show me but as far as you yourself are gone. Fred. Willingly will I do that, Lewis: but I am afraid the hardness and roughness of the way will scare you from it. Lew. Fear not: I hope I am ready to all things, be they never so hard, so I may attain to the end that I desire. Fred. I pray God to establish this willingness of yours, & to bring it throughout to the end. And therefore to go in hand with the matter, you know how the Author of the Epistle to the Hebrews hath written, that without saith it is unpossible to please God. Lew. I know it well. Fred. Belief in God is most necessary to the obtaining of salvation. First of all than you must believe in God if you will be saved. Lew. Proceed on then to the other things my Frederick. For as concerning belief, I have ever from my childhood believed in God: and truly I am of opinion, that there be very few (if there be any at all) which believe not in God. Fred. Many things are easy to be said which are hard to be done. Indeed it is very easy to be said, and so are men commonly persuaded. But I fear me it is said rather rashly, and of custom, then of truth. For the time hath been, that even I also have believed the same, both of myself, and of others; but when it came to the trial, than I saw how far of I was. Lew. Think you then that I have no faith? Fred. I am not of opinion that you have no faith Lewis, but I think you have so slender a faith, as it cannot rightly be said to be faith, or save you. And I pray you be not offended with me, for in as much as you have said that you are ready to all things, be they never so hard, it is meet afore all things that you should suffer to have it showed, that you want the thing which you ween you have abundantly: & sooth, The first way to the knowledge of the truth the first entrance to the knowledge of truth, is to unlearn the untruth, or else there will be no room for seed, where all is overgrown with weeds. Come on therefore: let us examine your belief. I pray you Lewis, when you were a child did you believe in your father? What it is to believe in the Father, is showed by the gathering together of certain circumstances. Lew. What mean you by believing in my father? Fred. That you took him for your father, and depended wholly upon him. Lew. Yea that I did. Fred. Then if you wanted any thing, as shoes, apparel, or meat, you resorted to none but him, neither doubted you any whit his good will towards you. Lew. Surely no more than of mine own. Fred. Again, if any mishap befell you, you had your eye upon him only. Lew. Yea verily. Fred. Also if he promised you any thing, you doubted not of his performance. Lew. No more than if I had had the thing already in my hand. Fred. Then took you no thought for his behaviour towards you, but only of your own towards him. Lew. You say truly. Fred. Moreover, if he either commanded you any thing, How needful obedience to the Father is, is showed by examples. or did any thing himself, whereof you being a child knew not the reason, or which seemed to you against reason: yet notwithstanding you did it, and stood not scanning doubtfully upon his doings. Le. So is it. For upon a time, when new grapes were brought in, & he bade me tread upon them with my feet, surely me thought it was a fond thing to tread upon so good and fair grapes, which I had rather should have been saved to eat. But because he was my father, I thought he commanded me not without a cause, & therefore I obeyed him. Also at another time, when he shredded his vines, & grafted trees to my seeming it was against reason to cut off the boughs which nature had brought forth, & which were likely to have brought forth fruit. But yet this thought ran always in my mind, Unless this were good, my father would not do it. Fred. Now let us come unto God. You say you believe in God the Father, & by that name you call upon him, saying: Our Father which art in heaven, and so forth. Surely it is meet therefore that you should depend upon him no less than you depended upon your father when you were a child. Lew. Yea. Fred. Then if you want any thing, you fly unto God alone, and you doubt not at all but that he will give you all things bountifully. What? Doubt ye? why answer you not my Lewis? Fleshly fear, 〈…〉. Confess the truth, and let not fleshly fear restrain you, which is wont to withhold men from being aknown of their vices, because they are afraid, lest he to whom they be to be uttered, should mislike of them as of sinful folk, or make the less account of them. But there is no such peril toward you at my hand: for I cannot find in my heart to mislike of any man for those things which I both see & bewail in myself not long ago; and I doubt not, but are in others also, unless they be come already to their ways end, which certes we two (that is to say, you and I) have not yet attained unto; neither will I make the less account of you for confessing the things with your mouth to your friend, which I am sure you acknowledge already in your heart. Lew. O my Fredrick I am ashamed to be acknown of it. verily I am (yea even very sore) afraid lest I should want bread and drink, and such other things, specially when I see I have but a little money left, and no likely mean at hand whereby to get new money. Fred. What if you have your purse full, or some mean in a readiness whereby to come by money? then you take no thought at all, or at leastwise, your thought is the less. Lew. It is so. Fred. Ergo, you trust to your money, or to your own policy, How belief in God is neglected, by trusting too much to these transitory & flightful things. more than to God. Lew. Truly it is even so. Fred. But when you were a child, you trusted only to your father. Lew. Yea. Fred. Now than you see how you believe not in God, but in your money, and in your own policy. Verily I believe these things seem boisterous unto you, in that you be not able to deny them, and yet are either doubtful or ashamed to confess them so soon. But enforce yourself Lewis. Many things are to be sifted out which lie lurking in our hearts, and the very root must be gone unto, without the plucking up whereof we cannot be saved. Let us go on. What say you to adversity Lewis? Is your mind nothing troubled at it? Lew. Yes very sore. I can very ill away with it; and besides that, I seek all the corners of my wit for worldly help. Fred. What do you concerning Gods promises? That God's promises deceive not the believers. He hath promised to give all things needful for your life, if you first seek his kingdom and righteousness. Do you certainly believe that promise, so as you doubt no more of his faithfulness than you did of your fathers when you were a child. Lew. Alas, I am far from it. Fred. But if your neighbour Henry Rottenfield, a rich man, and (in account of the world) a man of good credit, had promised you three hundred crowns, I am of opinion you were rid of that care for a good sort of years. Lew. Yea that I were. Fred. Now God hath promised not 300. crowns, but all things that you have need of, and yet you distrust him. Lew. O how truly you say? Fred. Less therefore do you believe in God, I say not than in your own father, but than in Henry Rottenfield. Lew. I am compelled to confess the truth. Fred. And yet men may start from their promises, Two things may let men from performing their promises. either through untrustiness, or for want: whereof none of both can befall unto God. You therefore by this distrust of yours, do falsely accuse God, either of untrustiness, or of want. Lew. I do so indeed. Fred. Now if you do thus distrust of God in the sustenance of your body, which notwithstanding you have never wanted to this hour, can you trust to him for the blessed & endless life which you never yet tasted of? For consider the matter after this sort with yourself: If a king should now send an Ambassador unto you to adopt you for his son, and you believed him, how would you behave yourself? Lew. Truly what substance soever I have, I would make no reckoning at all of it; & being here as a Wayfarer in body, I should have my mind running upon the Court: for a much like thing happened to me when I was a stripling. For whereas I lived in very slender state, I was called into the household of a certain Gentleman of great worship and wealth, honours change manners, as the common proverb saith. whereupon I felt my mind so altered, that I thought of none of the things which I had thought of before, neither was I pinched with any further care. Insomuch that when my father & my mother were about to have sent me a little money, I sent them word again, that thenceforth I should need no money. What need many words? I imagined aforehand in my mind, a kind of fashion of the buildings, and of the place, and of the persons among whom I was to dwell, and yet had I never seen them. Fred. I believe you Lewis. For I myself have had experience of the like. But what if you had not believed that message? Lew. Surely I had continued in mine old state still. Fred. And what if a man had seen you abiding in your former state? might he not well have avowed, that you believed not the message? Lew. Yes, very well. Fred. Now let us come to the matter. To them that love God, How bountiful God is to them that love him. God hath promised such good things, as neither eye hath seen, nor ear heard, nor heart of man conceived. Let us confess the truth here also my Lewis. If we believed this promise thoroughly, should not our minds be ravished up into heaven, so as no earthly care might touch us, & much less trouble us? Lew. Proofs or tokens of mistrust in God. Yes verily. Fred. But now when we be glad of gain, sorry for loss, greatly grieved and cast down with reproach, hoist up with honour, and overjoyed with pleasure; all which things are earthly: is it not an apparent proof, that we believe not Gods promises, but stick still to the earthly inheritance? Lew. Yes that it is. Fred. What if God should promise us some thing that might seem unpossible, as when he promised old Abraham a son by Sara, being old and barren too? Or what if he should command us a thing that might seem unreasonable? as when he willed the said Abraham to offer up his son in sacrifice, by which son he had promised him an offspring without number. Lew. Surely I am afraid we would not believe him. Fred. And yet was Abraham the father of the faithful; Abraham's faith is of necessity to salvation. so, as if we will be saved, we must have the faith of Abraham. And thus much concerning belief in the Father. This (as I take it) is that which they call the historical faith. Now if we come to the Son, I fear me, we much less believe in him. For I take not faith (as a number think it) to be a believing that Christ hath done and suffered the things which are written of him: for as for that faith or belief, the very devils have it. But I speak of the true, lively, & mightful faith, which is able even to remove mountains; whereof the Lord speaketh thus. The signs that are peculiar to the believers. The signs that shall follow those which believe, are these: In my name they shall cast out Devils, speak with new tongues, and drive away serpents: if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them. When they lay their hands upon sick folks, the sick folks shall recover. Do these tokens follow your faith, Lewis? Lew. No verily, Fred. Then you have not faith. Lew. Why? They deny that there is now any need of miracles. Fred. Neither do I now require any such, neither were they at that time wrought by all believers. For Paul writeth: Do all work miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? The thing that I require, is the same that Peter requireth: Get you strength to your faith, (saith he.) For needs must the faith of any man or of any time have strength, if it be matched with love. Which thing, that you may the better understand, consider the force of worldly belief. The force of worldly faith, and how wonderfully it moveth men. A man believes that riches are good, and that it is possible for him to attain to it by merchandise. Hereupon, leaving oftentimes a very fair and deare-beloved wife, and young children at home, he undertakes the unmeasurable perils of robbers, of ways, and of seas, and endureth intolerable pains to faith the riches whereon he hath set his belief and love, even from Taprobane, and the Isles of Canary, which are the uttermost parts of the world: and it is his belief that purchaseth him this stoutness. For unless he believed, he would not do it. And therefore it may be said that this man is enriched by belief. What shall we say of Learning, Lewis? The child believeth that learning and human arts are a very goodly thing, and to be sought with all his power. And thereupon applying himself to them day and night, he endureth poverty, cold, and whatsoever else, in seeking them with all his might, to the intent he may attain to the thing which he believeth to be good. He proceedeth in showing the strength of the worldly belief. Also what do soldiers? What kind of calamity is there which they undertake not, to obtain either victory or reward▪ How often watch they all the night long How often are they pinched with hunger, insomuch that sometimes they eat Mice, Rats, Horses, yea & even their own shoes, and afterward make their boast thereof? Whence have they so great strength? Whence, but of belief? For they believe the thing which they covet, to be good. Again, what do hunters do? do they not spend oftentimes the whole winter nights abroad, when the cold is so great that it giveth even the flints? Yea and what do lovers? what inconveniences do they not most gladly endure to the intent to please the party whom they be in love withal? And still they deem themselves happy that they have suffered those things for her sake. And this force of belief is seen, no only in several persons, How great force worldly belief hath even among some whole Nations. but also even in whole nations. For whereof comes it, that our Italians do so easily abstain from drunkenness? or that the Swissers are so resolute in battle, that they will rather be slain then fly? Even of this, that they are persuaded in themselves, that so they ought to do. And surely if they persuaded themselves alike in all other virtues, they should excel alike in all other virtues. Many other things of the same sort may be gathered: so great is the power of the belief that worketh in them. Therefore let us examine our faith, that we may see whether Christ's spirit do dwell in us or no. Christ telleth us that they be blessed which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: and he commandeth us to hoard up treasure in heaven. Come on. Do you feel as great thirst of righteousness, A trial of Christian faith most worthy to be observed. as ever you have felt at any time of water? or as great desire of God's kingdom, as the covetous man feeleth desire of money? Do you watch day and night to please God? Have you ever spent a whole year or twain in the study of godliness? Lew. Nothing less. Fred. Well: What strength have you in suffering of wrongs? If a man strike you on the right cheek, can you turn to him the left? Can you bless him that curseth you? Can you wish well to him that revileth you? Can you pray for him that raileth upon you? Can you seek his welfare which practiseth your death? Lew. Sooth, I am very far off from these things. Fred. Where obedience is not, there is not faith Then do you not believe in Christ. For if you did, you would obey his commandments. Lew. But I never referred belief to this obedience. Fred. What manner of thing than did you take faith to be? Lew. I took it to be a trust of God's frée-bestowed mercy, offered unto us in Christ. Fred. To what purpose then deem you Christ's commandments to serve? Lew. To put us in mind of our infirmity, in that we be not able to perform the things which we ought to do, and so to make us hang wholly upon Christ, who hath performed them for us, and imparteth them unto us. Fred. Even the Apostles themselves trusted to God's free-bestowed mercy, & yet they obeyed Christ's commandments. Neither do I set salvation in our own obedience, The mark whereat man's salvation shooteth. but in God's free mercy. But this I say, that whosoever believeth Gods free mercy aright, obeyeth Christ's commandments. And if a man do believe but Gods free mercy only, and not also his commandments, threatenings, promises, and sayings whatsoever: What things our forefathers attained to by their faith. I say, his saith is maimed, and unavaileable. For the full & mighty faith or belief, is that whereby the Saints have subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained the promises, and done such other things as any man may wonder to think of them. For that man doth not rightly believe in God, which upon a rashness doth but only beheight himself salvation by his free mercy, The fond & idle belief of the jews. (after which manner the jews do believe still yet to this day:) but he which doth so flatly yield credit and assent, not to some one piece of God's sayings and doings, but to all of them: as you have reported yourself to have believed your father when you were a child: or as we spoke of the covetous and lecherous persons, which have such a faith or belief, as is not dead and idle, but effectual and workfull, counterfeiting the spirit of Christ, and never resting till it have obtained the thing that it desired. Such a one is the true Christian faith, The work fullness of Christian faith appeareth in charity. which worketh through love: and whosoever hath not such an one, doth falsely boast himself of saith. Therefore whereas men do commonly challenge faith to themselves, and yet live in all kind of wickedness, they lie, and have not the true faith, but a dead one, which is no more worthy of the name of faith then a dead man is worthy of the name of a man. That this is not faith indeed, Christ himself showeth sufficiently when he saith, that at his coming he shall not find faith upon the earth. And also when unto these which say, Lord, Lord, have we not cast out Devils in thy name? Have we not wrought wonders in thy name? and hast thou not taught in our streets? he shall say, I know you not, get you hence ye workers of wickedness. Who they be which have the true Christian faith Ye see he will admit none for faithful, but only the weldoers and the obeyers. For they be the only people which have the true faith, of whom it is written thus: These are they which have maintained Gods commandments, and the faith of jesus. Now if you have not the faith which may make you righteous, (that is to say, chaste, lowly, gentle, liberal, and endued with such other of the virtues:) see how far you be off from being able to work the miracles which Christ hath told us should be the signs of faith. I require not here bodily miracles, which were appointed to the first training of the Church unto faith: To what purpose bodily miracles are wrought. But the thing that I require, is, that he which believeth in Christ should breed the same virtues in other men, which God hath bred in him: that is to say, that of drunkards, he should make them sober: of lecherous, chaste: of ireful, mild: and at a word, of unrighteous, righteous, The devils that lurk within us, and what is meant by speaking with new tongues. For, to cast out Devils, is to cast out the vices of lechery, covetousness, wrathfulness, & such other. Also to speak with new tongues, is to speak with fiery & burning speech, such as no man can withstand; of which sort theirs is, which speak the things, not which they have heard, but which they have seen with their eyes, heard with their ears, and felt with their hands: that is to say, which they have printed thoroughly in their hearts, & which they do as verily believe, as you do verily believe that it is now day, or that anon it shall be night. The works of such as speak with new tongues. With such tongues they be able, truly and effectually to comfort the afflicted, to hearten the weak minded, to relieve them that are in despair, to strengthen the feeble, to counsel the fearful, and to perform such other things, which I make far greater account of, then of the working of outward miracles, and of such as belong but only to the body. If a man have not these things himself, he can convey them into others: I see not by what right he can claim faith, unless it be the faith which the Devils have, who do believe that there is a God, and do quake at him. But I speak of the true and justifying faith, which maketh a man partaker of the nature of God, and causeth all things to be possible to him. Of the true & justifying faith, & how mighty it is in working. I have showed afore, how great force belief hath in matters of this world: and the same is to be seen even in religion, be it false or true. The Turks believe that wine is not to be drunk, & therefore they cannot forbear wine. The jews believe that a man ought to abstain from the things which the law forbiddeth: & therefore they abstain. There are to be found which do pine themselves to death with long over-fasting: some whip themselves, I say not grievously, but even cruelly, till the blood follow: other some for religion sake do take upon them long pilgrimages, No man doubts but that all these things are spoken of the wicked believers. wherein they endure beggary and many other inconveniences and perils. What shall I say of those which have gelded themselves? What shall I say of the Circumcellions, who (as the report goeth of them) to the intent to become Martyrs themselves, and to make otherfolks Martyrs with them, destroyed themselves by sundry sorts of death, as drowning, burning, and leaping from high places; and persuaded other men to do the like: all which they did thoroughly believe. For unless they had believed that those things were to be done, they would not have done them. By an argument from the lesser to the greater, he showeth the force of true faith. To be short, whatsoever thing men believe is to be done, they can (endeavour to) do it. Now if their belief being false, and not only not grounded upon God's commandment, but also clean contrary thereunto, have notwithstanding such strength: I pray you what is not that faith or belief able to do, which is both commanded, & also procured and strengthened by him? Shall God's spirit have less power in man then the spirit of Satan? Shall light be of less force than darkness? Ye see what force Paul's faith had: Paul's faith warranted by his own record. Unto this hour, (saith he) we be hungry and thirsty, naked, and buffeted; we be tossed and turmoiled, we labour and work with our own hands. Being railed at, we wish well: being vexed, we suffer it: being reviled, we take comfort at it. If they be ministers of Christ, much more am I: In labour I exceed them: In taking stripes I go beyond them: In being imprisoned I pass them: In death I have often been: Of the jews I have five times received forty stripes save one. Thrice have I been whipped. Once have I been stoned: thrice have I suffered shipwreck: day & night have I spent in the deep seas. Often have I journeyed. Often have I been in danger of Rivers, of Robbers, of mine own Countrymen, & of strangers; in the City, in the Wilderness, on the sea, and amongst false brethren: Often have I been tired with traveling and with watching: often have I fainted for hunger and thirst in fasting: often have I been a cold for want of clothes. And beside, all the other things which daily distress me, What thing held Paul occupied chiefly & above all other things. verily the care of all Churches lieth upon me. Who is weakened and I am not the worse at ease for it? who is offended and I am not grieved at it? This is the almighty strength of faith Lewis, wherewith he being armed, was enabled to do all things by him which strengthened him: and if we have the same strength, then surely there is cause for us to think ourselves to have the same faith: if not, them let us not bear ourselves in hand that we have the thing which we want; lest it befall unto us as it doth to that man which dreameth that he hath found a treasure, and when he awaketh, he hath not an halfpenny? Lew. O my Frederick, my imagination that I abounded in faith, The true faith hath scarce any place in the world. is but a dream: but now being wakened by your words, I see plainly, that I am quite and clean without it, as the rest of the world is. For as for this effectual power of faith, I neither find it in myself, nor perceive it in the world. Fred. That you be faithless Lewis, it is to be lamented: but that being so, you see yourself to be so, that is not only not to be lamented, but also to be rejoiced at: like as a sickness is itself to be misliked, but the knowledge of the sickness is to be well liked. Lew. By what mean then, or by what medicine may this my disease of unbelief be cured? Fred. By taking away the impediments of unbelief. Lew. Which are those? Fred. You have heard them of me already in my former talk. Howbeit for as much as you have scantly conceived them, as things that your ears have not heard of: for our manner is not to be overhasty in bearing words or things away which we have not heard of afore, I will tell you then more plainly. Give good heed. What think you to be the cause why no man in matters of justice, The impediments of faith showed by an argument taken from the Court bar, or from a case in Law. is admitted to be a witness in his own case? Lew. Because all men do love themselves, and therefore will ever speak for themselves, or at least wise, never against themselves. Fred. You say rightly. And if they be not willing to speak against themselves, neither are they willing to hear any thing against themselves. For the truth that is against them, misliketh them less out of another man's mouth, than out of their own. Lew. It doth so. Fred. And if they be unwilling to hear those things, truly they be not willing to believe them. For no man will willingly believe the things which he is loath to hear of: but all men do easily believe the things which they like of. An example by the use of things in common. As for example. If a man should say, that the goods of Christians ought to be common among them, whether sort would easiliest believe it, the rich or the poor? Lew. The poor. Fred. Why so? Lew. Because that by that match they should not lose, but rather win. Fred. What would the rich folk do? Lew. Hardly, or not at all rather, would they believe it; because they should thereby become the poorer, which thing they mislike of. Fred. What if a man should deny that men's souls are delivered out of Purgatory by Masses? Another example by the delivering of souls, etc. whether would the Clergy or the laity soon believe it? Lew. Not the Clergy because that opinion would be a diminishing of their revenues. Lewis. What if it should be said that usury were unlawful for Christians: were it possible to make those believe it which live upon usury, and become rich by it? Lew. Scarcely. Fr. The last example by the persecution for religions sake. What if one should teach, that men ought not to be put to death for religion: whether would they soon believe it which are in credit with the Magistrates, and are Divines themselves, and yet are persecutors of other men, or at the leastwise willing to persecute them; or the contrary sort? Lew. The contrary sort. For I know some Divines, who as long as they wanted that authority, and were troubled for religions sake, taught that men ought not to be molested for religion. And yet the self same persons having gotten wealth and authority, have both taught & done the contrary. Fred. You see then how faith is hindered by self-love, Self-love is the hinderer of faith. so as men do not easily believe the things that are contrary to their liking. Lew. I see it plainly. Fred. Let us consider then whether the same cause be not an impediment to our belief in Christ. In the doctrine of Christ are histories, promises, and commandments. As for the histories, and promises, almost all men believe them, because that in them no duty on man's behalf is required. Neither is there any controversy among Christians, There is no boubt among Christians concerning the doings of Christ: whether Christ have done the things which are reported of him in the holy Scriptures, or whether he have promised the things that are contained there. But what is the cause that so few believe his commandments? Lew. Do fewer folk believe his commandments, then do believe his doings and promises? Fred. Doubt you of that? First, as touching Gods commandments, whereas our masters universally be wont to teach, that they be not set down to the intent we should obey them, but to make us acknowledge our infirmities: what else is it then a discrediting of God's commandments. For seeing our Lord hath said, that all things are possible to him that believeth: and Paul saith, he is able to do all things through him that strgenthneth him: surely that man which not only obeyeth not God's commandments, What is the cause that so few believe Gods commandments. but also believeth that it is unpossible to obey them, doth not believe the commandments aright. Whereupon it followeth, that look how few folk obey the commandments, so few do believe them. Lew. But this saying which you allege, namely, that all things are possible to the believer, seemeth to be spoken of miracles, and not obedience. Fred. It is spoken generally of all the works of faith which I spoke of in alleging that place of the Epistle to the Hebrews. Through faith the Saints conquered kingdoms, wrought righteousness, etc. For surely, to work righteousness is a deed of faith. Besides this, if Gods will be, that men should through faith be able to work miracles, Not miracles, but belief is needful to salvation. which notwithstanding are not of the necessity of their salvation: much more is it his will that they should by the same faith be able to obey his commandments; seeing that without obedience a man cannot be saved: and that to obey is not a harder matter then to work miracles; and yet that to obey belongeth to all believers: whereas to work miracles belongeth not to all, as I have showed afore. Lew. Indeed these things are true Frederick, but yet there remaineth one thing which I would fain have opened unto me. You said even now, that all men believe Christ's histories, but not his commandments likewise. The believing of Christ's resurrection maketh all the rest of his sayings & doings credible. But if they believed the whole story of Christ, & specially his resurrection, in my opinion they should believe all the other things also. For no doubt but if they believed that jesus Christ is risen from the dead, in so doing they should both believe that he is the very son of God indeed, and moreover give credit to all his sayings. In which respect john said: These things are written to the intent ye might believe that jesus is the anointed son of God; and that through believing it, ye should obtain life by his name. Fred. Whereas I deny that they believe his commandments, I would not have it so taken, as though they believed not that his commanding of those things was well, and as became the son of God to do: but that forasmuch as they believe not that the things which he commanded to be done, What is meant by not believing of Christ's commandments, and who they be that offend in that behalf. are either possible or needful to be done, misconstruing them after their own fancy, & not according to his mind: I say they believe them not aright. For your better understanding whereof, I will give you an example. When God having brought the children of Israel out of Egypt, commanded them to enter into the land of Canaan, did they believe that God commanded it? Lew. Yea verily. Or else they would never have sent spies into the land of Canaan. Fred. Why then did they not obey him? Lew. Because they were of opinion that the Canaanites could not be overcome; and that God had brought them out of Egypt, How the Israelites believed not God in that they believed not his commandments not to conquer Canaan, but to perish wretchedly in the wilderness. Fred. Then did they not believe God's commandment according to God's meaning; forasmuch as his meaning was that they should have invaded Canaan, & subdued the Canaanites. Lew. You say the truth. Fred. Then did they not believe aright Lew. No, not aright. Fred. Whether then are they to be called believers, or unbelievers? Lew. Truly by this reason they should be called unbelievers. Fred. And sooth so they be (Lewis) in very deed. For in the very same place God calleth them unbelievers in these words: How long will this people spite me? How long will it be ere they will believe me, for all the miracles which I have wrought among them? Now if these be justly called unbelievers, the same reason leadeth us to call the others unbelievers, and distrusters of Christ's commandments, forasmuch as they do no less misconstrue the precepts of Christ, than the Israelites did the commandments of God. For Christ hath not wrought fewer miracles to us, than Moses did to them. Neither did Christ command us less earnestly to subdue sin, than God commanded them to subdue the Canaanites. Neither are we less spiteful & distrustful towards him, if we deny that sin may be subdued, when as he both commandeth us, and promiseth us strength; then they were spiteful and distrustful towards God, in denying it to be possible to overcome the Canaanites. Neither do we offend less against the meaning of Christ, when we deny that it is either possible for us, or meant by Christ, that we should do the things which he hath commanded us to do, than the Israelites offended against the meaning of God, when they wrested it another way then his open words imported. And therefore in denying them to believe Christ's commandments, I do them no wrong. As touching the place of john by you alleged, How the place taken out of john is to be understood. it is to be taken as if a man should have said at that time to the Israelites, GOD hath wrought these miracles for your sakes in Egypt, to the intent you should believe, and by believing, enter into the resting place of Canaan. But the cause why all of them came not there, was not God's purpose, but their own hardening of their hearts against him: which thing would God were not done in Christ also. But we see it is so: howbeit the Author of the Epistle to the Hebrews warneth us not to do it, citing this saying out of a certain Psalm: Psalm. 95.8 To day if ye hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as your forefathers did harden theirs. Self love dazzleth men's eyes that they cannot see to believe the truth. Therefore to return again to the matter: Whereas these men are wont so diligently to pick out the things to believe, which belong to the office of God, & to refuse the things that pertain to the duty of man, I pray you what a dealing is it? God's gracious goodness hath yielded salvation to all men: O how gladly is this admitted? But as for that which followeth, namely, to teach us to forsake ungodliness and worldly lusts, & to live soberly, righteously, & godlily in this world, that is a seed which few men receive. Many believe that Christ hath so performed that point, as that we need not to perform the same. Again, that the man is blessed to whom the Lord imputeth no sin, is easily believed of all men: but as for that which is annexed to it, namely, and in whose heart there is no guile, that they believe to be impossible. Likewise, it is commonly vaunted with full mouth, that they which are in Christ jesus, are not subject to any condemnation: for it is a very sweet saying indeed: but as for this, Which walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit, it is bitter, and of very few believed. And (to make few words) men do easily believe that they shall reap with joy: but if you tell them that they must sow with tears, they put that sentence over unto Christ. What is the cause why false Prophets do easily find credit. Hereupon it cometh to pass, that the false prophets, because they teach delectable things, and blaze abroad God's pleasant promises with open mouth, do easily find credit: whereas the true Prophets, because they urge men, & make them afraid with threats, & teach the truth severely, do bear sway among very few; according as Esay crieth out: Lord who hath believed our preaching? Hereby it appeareth plainly (my Lewis) that self-love is the lot that men believe not the truth. And if self-love were done away, they would believe nothing so easily as the truth, as who are born unto truth, and do by and by fall in acquaintance with it, as a thing of their own kin, if there be no impediment to let it. Therefore if you will rightly believe the truth, (that is to say, God,) you must needs put away self-love, or rather conceive a hatred towards yourself. Lew. We must 〈…〉 hate ourselves, and not love ourselves. Truly Fredrick▪ you win me to be of your mind in these things: but it is no small matter for a man to hate himself. Neither do I see how I may attain unto it, or yet perceive whether it be possible for me to attain thereto, I am so far in love with myself. Fred. I know Lewis, that it is a very hard thing, and passing the strength of a man but in this case we must bear in mind, how that when Sara believed not that she might breed child, All things, be they else never so impossible are possible to the power of God. our Lord said of her: Is there any thing which God cannot do? The things that are unpossible to man, are possible to God, and where God is our guide, nothing is to be despaired of. Lew. I beseech you then show me the way to attain thereunto. Fred. By God's leave I will do it: give ear unto me. How pernicious self-love is, is showed by certain familiar examples If I had a servant in whom I very much delighted, fair-spoken, and serviceable, which should prepare me some meats that best liked mine appetite, & with the same meats should mingle poison to bereave me of my life; and you, who love me, should have knowledge thereof, what would you do? Lew. Surely I would speedily and earnestly give you warning, that you should not taste of those meats, nor love that servant; for that he lay in wait for your life. Fred. What if I should say, that I am delighted with the serviceable behaviour of that servant, and with the sweetness of his cookery? Lew. I would counsel you that you should not make so great account of your present pleasure, as to lose your life for it. Fred. What if some friend of yours were in love with a flattering and painted harlot, which were diseased with the French pocks▪ and you knew of it: what would you do? Lew. I would make him privy to her disease, and (to the uttermost that I could) I would dissuade him from her company. Fred. What if he said he were delighted with her? Lew. Men are ●aught with pleasure as ●●shes are 〈◊〉 an an●gle & a ba●t 〈◊〉 their undoing. I would tell him that fishes also are delighted with baits: but yet that it were folly to purchase so small pleasure with so great sorrows, or rather with death. Fred. What if he should say, that he cannot but like well of the pleasure? Lew I would counsel him, that if he could not yet restrain the desire of his mind, he should at leastwise resist it, and not yield to obey it. Fred. But what if he obeyed it for all that? Lew. Then would I think him foolisher than the brute beasts, and worthy of any mischief. For fishes, wolves, foxes, puttocks▪ and such other, be they never so hungry, will nevertheless forbear the bait, if they spy or mistrust any snare, or any thing wherewith they may be caught. Fred. You say truth Lewis. Every man's own flesh is a harlot, of whom he warneth men to take very good heed. Thus then standeth the case. Every man's own flesh is as a harlot (as judas termeth it in his Epistle,) yea and a painted harlot, which with her enticements and fair fawn, doth allure, delight, and egg the man to sin, and hold him down in sin, and at length throw him down into death of the soul. And man being ignorant of the poison, embraceth the pleasures, and yields himself over to them. Now cometh in truth as a friend unto him, and warneth him that the wages of sin is death, declaring unto him that his flesh whom he took to have been his friend, Most wholesome counsel, & worthy to be followed. is his deadly enemy. Therefore if thou desire to be saved, thou must believe that thou hast not a more noisome enemy to thee then thyself, that is to say, than thy flesh, or thy lustfulnes; & that as thou hast hitherto loved it, thou must henceforth hate it & resist it, because it is noisome & deadly. And although thou canst not rid away her allurements out of hand, as indeed thou canst not, for they stick fast to thee: the truth will say unto thee, as it said in old time unto Moses; Go thy way into Egypt (for it lieth in thee to do that) and I will be with thy mouth, and I will enable thee to do that which thou canst not do. Even so Lewis, the truth saith unto thee as now: Do thou what thou art able, and God will enable thee to do that which thou canst not do. As for examples sake. Thou sittest at a well furnished table, and hast eaten enough already to refresh thy powers, and to staunch hunger. Now there is brought in some delicate dish, made to provoke gluttony withal. By and by thy flesh is tempted with it, and putteth such an imagination as this in thy head: This is a fine dish, if I eat of it, I shall receive pleasure by it. But the spirit striveth against the flesh, and warneth thee thus: Beware Lewis, that thou yield not unto voluptuousness, for voluptuousness is a poisoner. The incomparable harms that come of pleasure. For first, it calleth away thy mind from God, than the which there can be no greater mischief: for seeing that no man can serve two masters, thou canst not serve both voluptuousness & God; because voluptuousness overwhelmeth the mind, beareth it down to the ground, and separateth it from God. Besides this, it also hurteth the body with surfeiting, insomuch that although thou hadst no soul, yet oughtest thou to abstain from superfluity, even for thy body's sake. I require not now that you should not be tempted with the enticements of the flesh, but that you should not obey them. And whereas you allege that you cannot but obey them, you be easily disproved. For if a man would give you a florens to abstain from the said dish, would you not abstain? (Yes.) And will you not abstain by reason of the truth? Do you not hereby bewray, that the truth beareth less sway with you then one florens? Or if some man should threaten that he would give you a blow on the ear if you refrained not: surely you would refrain. Behold God threateneth a blow unto your soul, and yet you refrain not. The like I say of all other things. You be minded to have to do with a whore, but because a boy is by, you do it not. Behold God is present, and yet you be not ashamed to do it. The preposterous preferring 〈◊〉 the fear 〈◊〉 worldl●●unishnēt ●●fore the ●●are of GOD'S ●rath & ●engeance. Do you not now make less account of God's presence then of the presence of a boy? Or if you forbear for fear of punishment at man's hand, and not as well for fear of God's punishment: do you not prefer man before God? You are angry with a man, and would fain cudgel him, but you forbear for fear of the magistrate: Why forbear you not as well for fear of God? I pray you make as great reckoning of God, as you do of men; why doth the fear of God bear less sway with you then the fear of men? You slander your neighbour: God seeth the slander, and yet you do it nevertheless. But if men saw it, The conclu●●on gathered of the ●●ings going afore. you would not do it. Run through all things after the same sort Lewis, & you shall see that whosoever doth more for the love or fear of men, then of God, doth believe in men rather than in God. Lew. O my Frederick, my conscience beareth me witness, that the things which you say, be true and rightful: but thereof springeth a grief in my heart. Lew. Why so? did you feel any such grief when we treated of Predestination, or of Free-will? Lew. No, none at all. Fred. I believe you Lewis. The knowing of many, yea or of all things is no let 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 may serve the Devil. For knowledge bringeth no grief, but rather gladness, as which leaveth the old man unminished. For although you could skill of all manner of mysteries, yet might you serve the Devil ever stil. But now when we deal with the forsaking of ourselves, the flesh perceiving that she must go to wrack for it▪ playeth as harlots are wont to do when young men give them over. They vex them with the desire of them, and try all means to hold them still. Even so that harlot the flesh, which bewitcheth all men with the cup of her uncleanness, as soon as she perceiveth that a man mindeth to give her the slip, doth vex him with the desire of her still, and leaveth nothing unattempted, that she may hold him still. Hereof breedeth great grief, according to the greatness of the love towards the flesh; like as if you were to forsake your country, look how much you were in love with your country, 〈◊〉 being 〈◊〉 native country, cannot be forsaken without grief to us. so much would it grieve you to forego it. And surely sin is our country, (for in sin have our mothers conceived us) which cannot be forsaken without grief. Here is that cross of Christ, whereof he himself saith, If any man be minded to come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me. And if any man come unto me, & hate not father & mother, wife & children, brethren and sisters, yea and even his own life, so as he be contented to bear his cross and to follow me, he cannot be my Disciple. And to the intent you may understand what the hating of a man's self is, & what cross it bringeth with it, consider it thoroughly by the hating of another man. If you hated a man deadly, how would you be minded towards him? or what would you do to him? Lew. I would wish him all evil even from my heart, & likewise envy him any good: I would be sorry for his welfare, and glad of his adversity. If a man brought me word of any mischance of his. I would rejoice at it, & gently entertain him, & liberally reward the messenger with some gift. To be short, I would love mine enemy's foes, and do them good; & I would hate his friends, and do them harm if I could. All his sayings and doings would I pry at, and take advantage of them, and by all means possible (yea many times even to mine own harm) would I hurt him. Finally I would kill him if I could, and that not by any common manner, but with the grievousest death that could be: and I would do what I could to wipe the very remembrance of him out of the world. Fred. Now turn this your hatred Lewis, towards yourself: Every man is a deadly enemy to himself, & how such an enemy is to be dealt with. for you are a deadly enemy to yourself, & aught to hate yourself deadly, & not other men, who cannot kill you, that is to say, your soul. And therefore you must take pains to wish all manner of evil, yea & even death to yourself, that is to say, to your flesh; and to envy her all good things, and to be sorry for her prosperity, and to be glad of her adversity. And that if any man tell you any thing amiss of yourself, you may rejoice thereat in spirit, & liberally reward the reporter thereof: and (to be short) that you may devise and do all things against yourself, as men are wont to do against those with whom they be at deadly hate, & that you never rest till you have killed yourself. And forasmuch as no man hath ever yet hated his own flesh, (as saith S. Paul) you must first and foremost be divorced from your flesh, The flesh & the spirit are clean contraries, and fightful▪ but one against another. that she may no longer be your flesh, but strange flesh: and in her steed you must place the spirit, between whom and the flesh there can never be any more concord or agreement then between fire and water. Lew. O my Frederick, to tell you the truth, me thinks the things that you speak of, are as hard as stone. Fred. I believe you Lewis, and so must it needs be. But be of good cheer, and begin even now to love me in spirit, because I am an adversary to your flesh. For it is for your benefit, and you cannot be saved so long as your flesh is alive. Wherefore if you will be saved, see that ye hate yourself, and forsake yourself. A familiar example, And I will tell you an example of this forsaking. If a servant give over himself in bondage to you, he abandoneth himself, that is to say, wha● by 〈◊〉 goet● about to teach a man how to forsake himself. his own liberty and will, thenceforth to follow your will and not his own. Oftentimes when he would sleep, he must watch if his master command him: when he would go abroad, he must tarry at home: when he would play he must work: and (at a word) he so foregoeth his own freedom, that if he be asked what he will do, or what he mindeth to do, he must answer, what his master listeth, at whose appointment he is. So we (if we belong to Christ, who hath bought us at a great price,) are not at our own disposition or appointment, but at Christ's: and therefore we must do, not what we list, but what he listeth; and worthily. For if he, being the way and the truth, did notwithstanding so submit his will to the will of his Father, that he said, Not my will be done, but thine: what becometh it us to do, which are over covered with errors and leasings? Therefore when you be about to be angry without cause, you must restrain your anger at the appointment of Christ. When you would give yourself to voluptuousness, you must abstain, and give yourself to sorrowing. When you would be avenged of any body, you must forgive him. When you would do a man harm, you must do him good. When you would laugh, you must weep. When you would sue for honour, you must endure shame. When you would seek riches, you must suffer poverty. And (to be short) you must in such wise depart from your own will, as if you be asked what you would, That to the believer all things, seem they never so high, hard, or above power, are notwithstanding easy to be done. you may answer, nothing but what Christ listeth. And all these things shall you do through faith: for unless you believed, you would not do them. But it is necessary to be understood, what is meant by this saying of S. Paul's, that we must proceed from faith to faith. There is a certain first and unperfect belief, whereby a man is moved to renounce himself. This being once kindled, becometh daily greater by a man's holding on, until at length he become so far, that he doth as certainly believe all Gods sayings, commandments, promises, and threatenings: as you believe that the day shall succeed the night. Hence springeth that almighty power of faith, wherethrough it is able to remove mountains: so as there is no pride, no covetousness, no lechery, nor (to be short) no vice so huge and great, which that faith is not able to put away, and to pluck up by the root. Howbeit ere ever a man attain to that strength, he is to endure many hard things in the way of his forsaking of himself; and without such hardness there is no access to be had to that strength; like as a fig or a grape cannot become sweet except it be first sour. And because I myself have not yet attained the victory, but do yet still sweat in the encounter of forsaking myself, and as yet am far off from the garland: I will say no more concerning the victory, that is to say, concerning the thing which is unknown to me: but yet as much as I can, I will help you (by God's grace) in the encounter, if you will be my companion. Lew. Truly for my part, although myself do shudder & start back at it, yet am I carried with my spirit and mind, to follow you. There is but only one right way to the attainment of salvation. For I see no other way for a man to be saved, but by departing out of his own nature, that he may put upon him the nature of Christ; and by caring, studying, striving, and taking pains, to repair the image, whereafter we were created. And therefore beseeching God that it may be to his glory, 〈◊〉 mine own salvation, henceforth I yield myself into this way, as a follower of Christ, taking God for my guide. Fred. And I thank God for this willingness which he hath given you, beseeching him to finish his work which he hath begun in you; and to bring you to that point, that ye may at length serve righteousness, as ye have served unrighteousness; which thing he will undoubtedly do, except you grieve his spirit, and cast it out through your disobedience. Men must not conceive sparingly, and niggardly, but largely 〈◊〉 abundantly of 〈◊〉 gra 〈…〉 dnesse. Finally, of this I will warn you, that you must have a rich faith, because you believe in him that is rich in doing good. For men have ever sinned in believing untowardly, and more niggardly of Gods gracious goodness, than they ought to do. Abraham and Sara were rebuked for laughing, as though it had been a matter to be laughed at, that God promised them issue when they were both old, and Sara moreover barren. Zacharias the father of john Baptist, was stricken dumb for a time, because he believed not the Angel's words. We be commonly more forward in following the weak belief (or if I may so term it) the unbelief of the godly, then in following their full and rich belief. Why do we not rather follow those which durst believe all things? Elizeus durst crave double the spirit of Elias, (which sooth was a great thing even by the record of Elias himself) and yet he obtained it: We cannot ask so largely at God's hand but that his bounty wi●● surmount it. so unpossible is it for any faith to be so great, but that God's gracious goodness and power do surmount the same. All things (saith he) are possible to the believer. Again, Whatsoever you ask, believe that you shall obtain it, and ye shall have it in deed. Remember (I say) the saying of Elizeus, speaking after this manner to the poor woman: Borrow oil vessels of thy neighbours, yea borrow a great sort, and the Lord will fill them all full. Even so Lewis, let us do our endeavour, that we may have such a faith, as may be able to receive the greatest good things, and let us be bold to believe that God both can and will bring to pass, that we shall love him alone with our whole heart, soul, power, and strength. And he of his own gracious goodness, God will grant us all good things for Christ's ●●ke. will bestow all things upon us, much more largely than we can even think, for his Son, our Lord jesus Christ's sake, to whom be honour, glory and dominion for ever. Amen. FINIS.