AN ANSWER TO Doctor Good (So called) His DIALOGUE against those called QUAKERS Wherein he hath Forged the QUAKER, AND Confuted HIMSELF. Which Dialogue of Tho. Good's is in his Book, Entitled Firmianus and Dubitantius, or certain Dialogues concerning Atheism, Infidelity, Popery, and other Heresies and Schisms, which trouble the Peace of the Church, etc.  
By Edward Bourn.  
The Bows of the Mighty Men are broken, and they that stumbled are girt with Strength,  1 Sam. 2. 4. 
Printed in the Year 1675.   

AN ANSWER TO Doctor Good (So called) etc.  
Tho. Good,  
FRiend, Thou hast dialogued against the Quakers, to render them odious to the World; but our Innocency who are called Quakers, will clear us of the Reproach thou castest upon us, who wouldst insinuate, that to become a Quaker is the ready Way to become a Papist: For first, sayst thou in the Beginning of thy Dialogue against the Quakers with Firmianus, sayest thou, You have informed me in our last Discourse, 
pag. 90. of thy Book.  that being sometime a Quaker, you had a ready Way open to become a Papist.  
Answ. What Ground or Reason gives Firmianus to say so? We find no Reason Firmianus gives for so saying; a poor and silly Business may we say it is, to say, To be a Quaker is a ready Way to become a Papist, and to show no better Reason for thy so saying, than thou hast done in thy Dialogue; surely the Papists and thee are very wide in your Opinions herein; surely, we believe, if it should come to the Trial between thee and us, it will be found that thou art more one with the Papists in thy Practice, than the Quakers; and therefore it will appear, that the Way thou art in is a more ready Way to become a Papist, then to be in the Way those called Quakers are in.  
Further, in thy Dubitantius, where thou answerest thy Firmianus, thou hast many scornful and disdainful Expressions, not becoming a grave Man, or a Man of Gravity, which some have taken thee to be; and so showest thyself to be sitting in the Seat of the Scorner; But blessed is the Man that walketh not in the Counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the Way of Sinners, nor sitteth in the Seat of the Scornful, etc. See Psal. 1. 1. etc. And if thou wouldst be blessed, thou must come forth out of the Seat of the Scorner, and fear the Lord God, and not be as such who open their Mouths in Blasphemy against Heaven, and them that dwell therein; I judge I need not mention thy scornful Expressions, nor say more in Answer to them in this Place, because I know, that People who fear God, and are acquainted with our Principles, and know our Conversations, will judge that thou hast Dialogued thus against us without a just Cause, for which I say, the Lord rebuke thee.  
Further, says Firmianus, How could you be deceived by such painted Sepulchers? What could you see more in them, than what was conspicuous in the Scribes and Pharisees of old? Take it for and Infallible Rule, that whosoever hold or practise any Thing which is contrary to the Law of Nature, good Manners, express Scriptures, the Usages of all sober and civil People in the World, are so far from being True Christians, that they are not worthy the Name of Men.  
Answ. Here is a high Charge against us, which if Firmianus or Tho. Good could prove, according to what he hath charged upon us, than should we be much to blame: But what if his Charge in every Particular be false herein? surely, than it will follow, that Tho. Good doth much deserve to be blamed for using his Pen thus against the Innocent; and indeed I must tell Tho. Good, that he hath falsely accused us herein, for comparing us with such whom Christ compared unto painted Sepulchers, he cannot make good his Charge against us therein, but aught to take it home to himself, he being more like these, and more one with them than we, whom Christ Jesus, the Light of the World, cried Woe against; for whereas he chargeth us for holding and practising Things contrary to the Law of Nature, good Manners, express Scripture, the Usages of all sober and civil People in the World, I say, these are false Accusations, and he himself by the Scriptures may be proved guilty of all those Accusations he falsely chargeth upon us; and therefore let T. G. in Time to come have a Care, and be wiser, then to go about such a bad Work as this is, wherein he hath grossly slandered, and falsely accused the Innocent, and be humbled before the Lord, and repent of the Evil he hath committed herein; and for the Satisfaction of such as are sober-minded, let them read Mat. 23. and see who it is that is contrary to Christ Jesus, and Breakers of the Law of God, our Accuser or us, and who is contrary to the Scriptures, and read John 5. 41, 42, 43, 44. etc. And let the Witness of God in People, unto which we do commend ourselves, judge between our Accuser and us, for that will judge righteously, and not according to that which is right in Appearance, but is indeed contrary to what it doth appear to be: And whereas thou speakest of perusing Priest Danson's Book, Danson's Book is answered, and all his Lies thrown back upon his Head, as thou may'st see in the Answer, and thy Dialogue is rather a Forgery, which thou and it are stuffed with Lies, which come from the Father of them, and not from God.  
Thou sayest, That they affirm that there are not three Persons in the Trinity.  
Answ. We desire thee to show us Chapter and Verse for these Words, and let us see whether thou walkest according to Scripture in these Words, and in these Terms; and see whether thou hast not presumed above what was written.  
There are three that bear Record in Heaven, the Father, and the Word, and the Holy Ghost, these three are one; and this we own in Scripture-Language, according to John' s Doctrine, etc.  
Thou sayest that we say, That Christ did not make Satisfaction for the Sins of Men.  
Answ. This is another lying Forgery; for by one Offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified; and we are not redeemed with corruptible Things, but with the Blood of Jesus Christ, as of a Lamb without Spot; and we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous, and he is the Reconciliation for our Sins, and not for our Sins only, but for the Sins of the whole World.  
And thou sayest that we say, That Justification is not by Imputed Righteousness, and good Works are the Cause of our Justification.  
Answ. Here are more Lies again, and thou abusest People's Minds, and the Press with them; for Christ Jesus is our Righteousness, and Sanctification, and Redemption; God hath made him so, and we are justified freely by his Grace, through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus; and therefore By the Works of the Law there is no Flesh justified, Rom. 3. 23. We are justified by Faith in Christ Jesus, which the Work of Faith, which works by Love, is not denied by the Apostle nor us, if thou deniest that, thy Faith is dead.  
Further, thou sayest that we say, That a State of Perfection and Freedom from Sin is attainable in this Life.  
Answ. Do we err in holding that a State of Perfection and Freedom from Sin is attainable in this Life? Did not God say to Abraham, I am Almighty God, walk before me, and be thou perfect? Gen. 17. 1. And did not Christ say in his Sermon in the Mount, Be you therefore Perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect? And art thou of that Faith and Belief, that God and Christ doth command us to do that which we cannot by his Help and Assistance do? 'Tis true, we cannot keep the Commands of Christ of ourselves, but by his Assistance we are able to do the same, else why did the Apostle say, I can do all Things through Christ that strengtheneth me? And did not the Saints know a Freedom from Sin in this Life? Friend, I tell thee, if thou sayest, a Freedom from Sin is not attainable in this Life, thou must deny the Scriptures of Truth, and give the Apostle the Lie; for doth not the Apostle say to the Romans, But now being made free from Sin, and become Servants to God, ye have your Fruit unto Holiness, and the End Everlasting Life, Rom. 6. 22. And doth not the Apostle say concerning himself, For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the Law of Sin and Death? Therefore stop thy Mouth for Shame from speaking of those Things which thou ought'st not, and thy Pen from so writing concerning us; certainly, God will judge thee for thy Lies and Slanders against us: Thou sayest, That our Positions are contrary to the sacred Scriptures; but by this thy Evil Work it appeareth, that thou art contrary to the Scriptures, and not we, who hast manifested thy Ignorance of what the Scriptures say, and hast appeared contrary to what thyself hast learned in thy young Days, and since (for aught that I know to the contrary) hast caused others to learn, viz. That when thou camest to Age, thou wouldst, according to what was promised and vowed in thy stead by thy Godfathers and Godmothers in thy Baptism (so called) forsake the Devil and all his Works: And if thou hast not learned thus, not caused any thus to learn, I am sure that I, and many more, were caused thus to learn in our youthful Days: I believe however, thou ownest thyself a Member of that Church that teacheth thus to say, though not to do; and so thou may'st be a Sayer of the Word, but not a Doer of it; but now thou art neither Sayer nor Doer, and so in that Estate canst not be justified of God; for as thou hast doubtless read in the Scriptures, It is not the Sayers of the Word that are justified, but the Doers of it: Now he that forsakes the Devil and all his Works, he must cease from all Sin, and abstain from every Appearance of Evil; for all Sin is of the Devil.  
Again we say, sayest thou, That there is a Light in every Man sufficient to guide him to Salvation.  
Answ. Is it an Errorth us to hold, seeing John saith (speaking of Christ) That is the true Light which lighteth every Man that cometh into the World? And hath not God given his Son, Christ Jesus for a Light to the Gentiles, that he might be his Salvation unto the Ends of the Earth? And doth not the Apostle say, For God who commanded the Light to shine out of Darkness, hath shined in our Hearts, to give the Light of the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the Face of Jesus Christ; and see John 14. 26. & 16. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Consider of these Scriptures, and then tell us whether it be any Error to hold that there is a Light in every Man sufficient to guide him unto Salvation, or to hold the contrary, and so whether it is not thou that errst from Scripture, and the true and right Way of the Lord, and not we.  
Again sayest thou, We hold that the Scripture is not the Word of God, or a standing Rule of Faith and Manners.  
Answ. We own the Scriptures to be what they speak of themselves, according to Luke's Preface, where he writes of the Gospel, etc. But the Word is God, if John wrote the Truth, which we believe he did, as thou may'st see, John. 1. 1. And I hope thou wilt not presume to say to the contrary; but we own the Scriptures, that which Holy Men spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, to be the Words of God, and that which was the Saints Rule we own to be our Rule, as the Scriptures testify thereof; see John 16. 13. etc. and Tit. 2. 11, 12. But thou manifests thyself to be contrary to the Rule both of Scripture and Spirit, that does by thy Neighbours and Countrymen, as thou wouldst not be done by.  
Again thou sayest, That we hold that there is no Resurrection of the Dead.  
Answ. We do own the Resurrection of the Dead according to the Scriptures, as thou may'st see, 1 Cor. 15. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, etc. And further see Ver. 29. 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38. etc. So I say, we own the Resurrection of the Dead, according to the Scriptures; and if thou hold'st it otherwise, it is thou that errest therein, and not we.  
Again thou sayest, We hold there is no need of Ordinances, as Baptism and the Lord's Supper.  
Answ. We own that Baptism that's according to the Scriptures, but not that which is contrary to them, which is according to the Traditions and Inventions of Men; and the Supper of the Lord we own, according to the Scriptures, though not such a Supper which some take before Dinner, and call it the Lord's Supper: So be humbled before the Lord, and repent of the Wrong thou hast done us herein.  
Again, we hold, sayest thou, That 'tis Unlawful to take an Oath before a Magistrate upon any Account whatsoever.  
Answ. Is it an Error in us to keep the Commandment of Christ herein, who saith, Swear not at all; and the Commandment of the Apostle, who saith, But above all Things my Brethren swear not? see Mat. 5. 33, 34, 35, 36, 37. & Jam. 5. 12. Friend, was it not commanded by Christ and his Apostle, that we should not swear at all, no, not by any Oath? And what must we err for doing according to Christ's Commands herein? Oh sad! that one who taketh upon him to be a Minister of Christ should hold to the contrary, and teach others so: Friend, repent of those Things, and do so no more, that these Words of Christ may not come to pass concerning thee, viz. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach Men so to do, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.  
And whereas thou sayest in thy Dubitantius, I know these and many more to be the Positions of the Quakers, and that they are directly contrary to the sacred Scriptures.  
Answ. Whereas thou sayest, Thou knowest these P●sitions, and many more of ours, are directly contrary to the sacred Scriptures, I say, thou hast belied us herein; for the Scriptures make for us in these Positions which we own to be ours, as I have showed thee before; and wherein thou hast said we hold that we do not hold, thy Lies are thrown back upon thyself, and I doubt not but God will rebuke thy lying Tongue, for thy slandering of us, and turn the Mischief thou wouldst bring upon us thereby upon thy own Pate.  
And whereas thou sayest in thy Firmianus, These Things are so clearly confuted by the Word of God (by which I suppose thou meanest the Scriptures) and Tradition of the Catholic Church, etc.  
Answ. Thou hast said so, but thou hast not brought one Scripture to confute us in those Positions we own to be ours, and so hast accused us without a Proof, which will not serve thy Turn, for the carrying on of thy envious Work against us, with People of Understanding, but the rather thy Folly, and Ignorance and Madness is the more made manifest to such as are honestly minded, and are willing to try, and to prove all Things, and to hold fast that which is good: And therefore cease from thy Work in this, and in Things of this Nature; for by thy Strength thou must not, nor shalt not be able to prevail against us, because the Truth is for us, which is stronger, and of more Might then any Thing beside it, and takes our Parts against thee herein.  
And whereas thou sayest, Our Practices are extremely opposite to all good Manners, and the Civilities of all Nations, which are not grossly barbarous, as well as the Holy Scriptures; and whereas you have observed their Carriages to be very demure, austere, and that they are of a sad Countenance; 'tis no more than our Blessed Saviour reproved in the Scribes and Pharisees long since, etc.  
Answ. Wherein are our Practices so extremely opposite to all good Manners, and the Civilities of all Nations that are not grossly barbarous, as well as the Holy Scriptures? Friend, let us know if thou art able to do it, wherein our Practices are contrary to the blessed Truth; and if our Practices are not contrary to the Truth, but agreeable therewith, as surely I may safely say they are; then wherein can they be said to be opposite to all good Manners, and the Civilities of all Nations? Friend, I can say, and the Witness of God in my Conscience justifies me herein, thou art one of those that calls Good Evil, and Evil Good, and so art not led by that good Spirit that the Holy Apostle and Servant of Christ was led by, who said, As Obedient Children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former Lusts in your Ignorance, 1 Pet. 1. 14. So thou who ar● ignorant of the Light of Christ, and of the right Way of the Lord, may'st call that good Manners and Civility, which is according to the Fashions ●f this World, which pass away; but that which the good Spirit of God doth lead into, is contrary to that which thou may'st account good Manners and Civility; But thou and such as thee art, are nearer in Nature to the grossly barbarous than we are, as this thy Work manifesteth; for I am of the Mind, thou art not of so meek a Spirit as to bear with any Man or Woman that cannot put off their Hats and bow to thee for Conscience sake, though what they do herein doth accord and agree with the Scriptures; and so we are not contrary to the Scriptures, but according to them; for Mordecai who was a good Man, could not bow to Haman, as thou may'st see Ester 3. 1, 2. For which Cause Haman was full of Wrath, as see Ester 3. 3, 5. So thou who art angry with any that cannot for Conscience sake put off their Hats, and bow to thee (I speak not of such as thus do in Contempt to any Man's Person, but for Conscience-sake towards God) art like Haman herein, and not like Mordecai, whom God was with, etc.  
Further sayest thou of us, That we are very demure, austere, and of a sad Countenance; whereas a sad sour Face, a hanging down Look too much resemble Cain's Mark, and is a very probable Sign of a disquieted, discontented, guilty, troubled, if not a malicious Mind.  
Answ. Thou judgest of us according to thy own Thoughts: But Friend, tho● shouldst not judge of us according to the outward Appearance in thy prejudiced Mind; but judge Righteously of us, and if thou wouldst so judge, than thou must judge nothing before the Time: 'Tis probable that thou may'st judge us to be of a malicious Mind, because we cannot appear as one with People in their Folly, in being jolly and merry with them, out of the Fear of the Lord, which is because we know such Things are contrary to Godliness, and that whereby his good Spirit is grieved, and by which he is provoaked to Anger daily; the Consideration of those Things makes us sad many Times, and we cannot avoid it well many Times) but must by our Words and Carriages show our Dislike thereof, because we well know that People by such Things do provoak the Holy God against their own Souls, who hath long born with their Evil Manners herein, and striven with them by his good Spirit, to reclaim them therefrom; but his long Suffering will soon come to an End with such, and his good Spirit will cease to strive with them; therefore let such repent and amend their Waves and their Doings before it be too late; but thou showest thyself to be one with them, which thought it strange of the Saints formerly, because they could not run with them into the same Excess of Riot which they run into, as see 1 Pet. 4. 3, 4. And though thou sayest of us, that in this or in such Things beforementioned of us, it too much resembles Cain's Mark; I say, Cain's Mark may easier be seen in thee, who hast wrote so maliciously against us, as thou hast; let the Witness of God in thy Conscience testify whether thou hast not wrote thus against us out of Malice, and whether thou hast not done it out of the Enmity in thee unto that which is good.  
Again says Firmianus, This Practice of theirs is against the very Light of Nature, as well as plain Scripture, a mere levelling Device of their Seducers (the Popish Priests and Jesuits) to make a Confusion amongst us, to destroy all Government, to take away all Honour and Respect which is due to our Superiors; for what Honour or Reverence has that Man in his Heart towards them, who will express none in his Words or Gestures, according to the laudable Custom of the Country where he dwells?  
Answ. What is that Practice of ours that is against the very Light of Nature, as well as plain Scripture, which thou callest a mere levelling Device of our Seducers (the Popish Priests and Jesuits?) etc. Is it in not respecting Per●ons in that Way which the World doth, with Cap and Knee? Is this the Respect thou lookest for from us? Hast thou learned Christ no better than so? Did not Christ reprove such as loved Greetings in the Markets, and to be called of Men Rabbi, Rabbi? And did not Christ say to the Jews, I receive not Honour from Men; and how can ye believe which receive Honour one of another, and seek not the Honour which cometh from God only? See Mat. 23. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc. and John 5. 41. & 44. Is this contrary to the very Light of Nature? then may'st thou say, Christ's Doings were contrary to the very Light of Nature; thou may'st with Shame enough give over thus abusing the Scriptures and us, who dost not know that which thou callest the very Light of Nature, nor the Scriptures to guide thee, nor to say as thou dost herein, but the contrary: So it is thee that art contrary to the very Light of Nature and the Scriptures, and not we: Therefore thou false Accuser, Repent of thy false Accusations against us herein. And as for the Popish Priests and Jesuits, whom thou falsely sayest, have seduced us herein; I say, thou beliest them in these Things, who are one with thee in those Things thou practisest, more than one with us in what we practise; and so 'tis more probable that thee, and such as thou art are seduced by them, because your Practices do better acccord and agree with the Practice of the Popish Priests and Jesuits then ours do, and so both denied by us. And what is the Honour thou wouldst be honoured withal, viz. with putting off the Hat, and bowing the Knee to thee? Can Honour and Reverence be shown no other Way, but by this Way? Certainly, one Man may have a good Esteem of another in his Heart, and yet not show it by such Gestures as these, else why doth the Apostle say, Honour all Men in the Lord? So People may have a good Esteem of each other in their Hearts, without showing it by such Gestures, as thou wouldst have them to show it by: 'Tis possible one Man may bow to another, and say to him, Your humble Servant Sir, as if he were ready and willing to do him Good, and yet for all that would, if he had an Opportunity for it, do him an Injury; what, are these the laudable Customs thou wouldst have us do and practise? Friend, what by the Light of the Lord we are led unto in these Things, we can do; but that which is contrary to his Holy Light we may not do, lest we make ourselves Transgressor's against him thereby.  
Again, Thou sayest in thy Dubitantius, Truly I have often admired at the uncivil Behaviour of the Quakers, in saying [THOU and THEE] to their Betters, in not Bowing, the Knee or putting off the Hat to their Superiors.  
Answ. Is not Thou and Thee most proper to speak to One Person, seeing You signifies more than One? And if I say You when I speak but to One, I speak Contrary to the Truth, seeing You signifies more than One, or Many, is it not according to the Scriptures to say Thou to One, when one speaks but to One? Was it not the Language of Almighty God to Adam in Paradise? And did not Adam say Thou to God again? see Gen. 3. 9 12. And frequently in the Scriptures Thee and Thou we find was used to One; and what! is it Uncivil in us to speak as we find it is recorded in the Scriptures of Truth herein? Oh! blush for Shame, for so saying: And now tell us, who is contrary to the Sccriptures, Thee or Us? speak the Truth herein. And wherein may one Man be said to be Better than another, except it be in his being more Honest and Just than another, and so in being more in the Truth than another is? 'Tis not because one man is better by Blood then another, seeing God made of one Blood all Nations: One man may be better in his Estate then another; but how that man can be a better man than another, I know not, except in his Estate, seeing God made all Nations of one Blood. But thou, who art for Respecting of Persons, committest Sin; who art contrary to Christ, and contrary to his Apostle, and the Scriptures, and so art judged by the Scriprures, and by the Spirit of Truth, from which they were given forth; for, our Civil Behaviour to any, does not lie in putting off our Hats.  
Again, Thou sayest in thy Firmianus, But, pray you, what think you of their pitching a certain Price upon their Commodities, of which they will not bate one Farthing, & c?  
Answ. Wouldst thou make it a Crime in us to keep to what we say? If we say, in case we are selling a Commodity to any Person, We will not sell it under such a Rate or Price; is not thus to do, to keep Christ Jesus, our Lord's Command herein, who says, Let your Yea be Yea, and your Nay, Nay; for, whatsoever is more than these cometh of Evil? And can we do that which is Honest and Right in the Sight of God herein. and do otherwise? For shame give over Writing and Speaking against those things which in themselves are good, and aught by every true Christian to be observed.  
Again, Thomas Good saith in his Dubitantius concerning us, I believe, That these men, most of them, are as great Cheats as nigh in the World.  
Answ. But what is thy Reason for thy thus saying? If thou believest, that the most of us are as great Cheats as any in the World, thou shouldst show, why thou so believest. Thomas Good, this will not serve for thy Purpose herein: What! Must People believe thus of us because thou dost? People that be wise will not believe what thou sayest of us herein, except thou canst show a better Reason for thy so believing of us than thou hast; Indeed thou givest no Reason at all; but 'tis only thy so saying, without giving or showing any Reason for it. But, it may be, thou thinkest, If thou sayest, thou believest it, it is sufficient for others to believe so too: But I tell thee, Nay; that will not serve for thy Purpose herein; for, they that be Wise, will require some further Testimony for thy so saying then thy bare Words, in saying, Thou believest so of us: And so thou hast manifested thy own Folly and Envy in this Matter.  
Again, Thou sayst in thy Dubitantius, I did once believe them to be great Contemners of the World, Meek, Humble, Lowly, etc. but 'tis evident they are quite contrary to what they seem to be; for (sayest thou) I know, that most of them are Extremely Covetous, and Narrow-breasted, without all Bowels of Pity or Mercy towards those that want, unless they be of that Fanatic Party; which is mere Faction, and no Christian Charity at all.  
Answ. It seems, by thy words, thou once didst believe better of us then now thou dost; it may be that was when in thy Mind thou wast more one with the Truth then now thou art; but now thou art of a Prejudiced Spirit, and Evil-minded against us, or else thou mightest believe as well of us now as formerly, for any Alteration that is in us from those Good Things we formerly were addicted unto, according to that thy former Belief of us. And whereas thou sayest, That most of us are extremely Covetous, and Narrow-breasted, without all Bowels of Pity or Mercy towards those that want, etc. I require thee to prove what thou hast said of us herein, or otherwise to acknowledge thyself to be a False Accuser, and a Slanderer of us; I doubt not but many who are not of us, can witness thee to be a Liar herein. And for Fanatic Party, which thou reckonest us of; that thou mayest take home to thyself; for thee, and such as thou art may more truly be called fanatics then We.  
Again, Whereas thou sayest, That whereas many of them have been known to have been Persons of mean Fortunes at first, are now Rich and Wealthy; and none of them (though very Poor before they turned Quakers) now in a necessatous Condition, being maintained, as 'tis very probable, by their New Masters, the Jesuits, a very Rich and Opulent Society, who make more Proselytes by the Length of their Purse-Strings, then by the Strength of Argument, or personated mimical Gestures.  
Answ. It may be it troubles thee, that such of us who were formerly of mean Fortunes, are now Rich and Wealthy; and that none of us now are in a Necessatous Condition: If God Almighty hath added to our Outward Substance, so that many of us, who before we owned that Holy and Blessed Truth, possessed by those called Quakers, which thee and many more do not, though you profess the same Truth, have more of Outward substance then before, why shouldst thou be troubled at that, so as to judge, it is obtained by us by Extreme Covetousness? The Proverb is, Illwill will not speak well: So thou being ill-minded towards us, takest things the wrong way, and wouldst insinuate thy evil suggestions into others, that they might be likeminded with thee therein. And if Care be taken by us, that none that are truly of us, are in a Necessatous Condition, dost thou judge amiss of us therefore? If thy Religion teacheth otherwise, I desire not to be of it, because it cannot be a good Religion; so not according to the Apostle's Religion, who said, Do Good unto all, but especially unto the Household of Faith: And whereas thou sayest, Being maintained, as it is very probable, being maintained by their new Masters, the Jesuits, etc. I say, if there be such a Society, they may tell thee, as well as we, thou hadst not just Cause to say that that was every probable, they being unknown to us, and we to them: And art not thee a Possessor of their Tithes and Peter's Pence? Doth not that come in thy Purse that formerly came into the Jesuits? And as for thy Words, they converting us with their Purse, we deny ●●em, and abhor their Practices; for, is not that thine and the Jesuits Practice, who practice (that which you call) Converting for the Purse? But have not you Priests Imprisoned and Plundered Us sufficiently to make us poor?  
Again, Whereas thou sayest, As for their Humility and Lowliness, 'tis evident they show no such Virtues in their Carriage towards their betters; their Contempt of Gold Rings, Silver Lace and Rich Attire, is no Infallible Proof of their Humility; Diogenes may be as Proud in his Tub, as Alexander in his Palace; he may trample upon Plato's Pride with greater Pride; as Haughty a Spirit may be hid under a Plain Country Russet, as under the Richest Sables.  
Answ. What are those Carriages of ours towards any that do not show Humility and Lowliness? Surely those, who are not one with us in Judgement, yet being of a Moderate Unprejudiced Spirit, perceiving that we are Conscientious in what we do, though we cannot carry ourselves towards them as they do one towards another in many things, have a better Opinion of us than thou hast; and God, unto whom our Souls are subject, knows, that it is otherwise with us than thou judgest of us; who will plead our Cause with thee, who smitest at us without a Just Cause. And I say, Who cannot for Conscience sake wear Gold Rings, and Silver Lace, and Rich Attire, as formerly they could have done, do show more of being guided by the Holy Infalliable Spirit of the Lord then such as practise those things, and are better Followers of the Apostle, who would have others to follow him as he followed Christ, than such as do contrary herein; which holy Apostle saith, Let your Moderation be known unto all men, for the Lord is at hand: And the Truth, if it be minded, will lead to Moderation in these things. And the Apostle Peter saith, where he speaks of Woman's Adorning themselves, Whose Adorning let it not be the Outward Adorning of Plaiting the Hair, and of Wearing of Gold, or of putting on of Apparel; but let it be the Hidden Man of the Heart, in that which is not Corruptible, even the Ornament of a Meek and Quiet Spirit. which is in the Sight of God of great Price; see ● Pet. 3. 3, 4, etc. Now, Friend, consider what Spirit thou art of, who smitest at us for doing according to the Apostle's Exhortation herein: And who walketh most according to the Truth, We, who are Conformable to God herein, or Thou, who seekest Occasion against us therefore? What any People may do as to things which are good in themselves, and aught to be done, they doing them in Imitation only, that they may be reckoned Humble and Lowly-minded, and not in Obedience to God is one thing; but what is done for the Lord's sake, in true Obedience to him, is another thing: so there aught to be a Distinction made between such, in things which the Blessed and Holy Truth leadeth them to do, where it is kept to; and such as do like things, yet not so led thereunto: And though things may be done by some by Imitation only, which are good in themselves, yet aught and may the same things be done by others by the Leadings of the Spirit of Truth; and where it is so, such things are rightly accounted the Fruits of the Spirit; and such are reckoned by Christ as the Good Tree, which brings forth Good Fruit: so, by what the Tree brings forth, it may be known, whether the Tree be good or evil: so, who do things by the Leadings of God's Spirit, those things are the Fruits of that Good Spirit, and are so owned by this Holy Spirit, though not owned by it where the like things are done In Imitation only, that they may seem to men that which in the Sight of the Holy God they are not. Therefore, Friend, have a care of Smiting against such as are Conscientious to God in what they do, lest thou condemnest the Righteous with the Wicked and Hypocrites, which certainly is an Abomination to the Lord. So, to say that Diogenes may be as proud in his Tub, as Alexander in his Palace; and may trample upon Plato ' s Pride with Greater Pride, will not hold parallel in this Case, no more than what some do by Imitation only, that they may seem to be that which they are not, will hold parallel with what some do in Reality, and only for Conscience sake: And though as Haughty a Spirit may be hid under a Plain Country Russet, as under the Richest Sables; such a Comparison will not nor cannot hold in the Case before mentioned. And why art thou Angry with us? Is it because we reprove thee, who art in the Steps of the Proud Pharisees?  
Again sayest thou in thy Firmianus, But what do you think of their Meekness and Mildness? they rather suffer an hundred Injuries then revenge one, that they will not take up Arms to offend the Enemy, or defend themselves or their Country; are not these rare Signs of their Christian Meekness?  
Answ. What, is it a Crime for any to be guided by that Spirit, which leads to suffer an hundred Injuries, rather than to revenge one? Thou Scoffer, dost thou take upon thee to be his Minister or Servant, who saith, But I say unto you, resist not Evil, he that shall smite thee on the one Cheek, turn to him the other also; and wouldst make Jests and Mocks, and scoffest at those Things which are consistant with Godliness, and wouldst persuade People, that those that are real herein, are not so, but would appear otherwise, if Occasion should serve; for so thy Words do import; thou Smiter against the Innocent, they that take thee to be a Minister of Christ, are much mistaken in thee, who mockest and scoffest at those who do according to his Command and Requirings herein, and wouldst make them Dissemblers therein; but we can and do appeal to God, who will judge Righteously between thee and us, who saith, Vengeance is his, and he will repay it.  
Again thou sayest in thy Dubit●ntius, You know the Time when they did take up Arms in a Hostile Manner against the King and his Loyal Subjects, and if they had a fair Opportunity, they would do the like again, etc.  
Again says Firmianus, I confess that many of them were in Arms under Cromwell against the King's Royal Party; that Light within them did then warrant them to rebel against their Lawful Sovereign; but now the Light within them shows, that 'tis not lawful to resist Magistrates by Carnal Weapons.  
Again saith Dubitantius, You are pleased to make yourself merry with these men's bare-faced Hypocrisy; what a Juggle is this Light within them? more unconstant than that of the Moon; a mere Fantasy, a Diobolical Suggestion; the Devil suits his Temptations, when there is good Probability of prevailing by Rebellion and Treason, than the Light, or rather Darkness within them, doth suggest unto them, 'tis lawful to take up Arms, to plunder and murder their Fellow-Subjects, yea, the King himself; but when there is no Probability to prosper by such villainous Erterprises, than the Light within them persuades them to be quiet as Lambs, etc.  
Answ. Many of those called Ministers, that were as Leaders of the People, in their Preaching did use what Arguments they could, to stir up and encourage their Followers in the Beginning of the late Wars, to engage them therein; and doubtless there were many that did hold themselves obliged to observe what those Men did so earnestly press upon them, and were thereby animated to take up Arms accordingly.  
And I further answer, That I do acknowledge that several of the People now called Quakers, before that Name was cast upon them, and before turned to that Light, which we now bear witness unto (which is the Light of Christ, which lighteth every Man that comes into the World) were in the late Wars engaged in Arms, some in the King's Party, and some in the Parliament Party, according as those called Ministers beforementioned, did animate and encourage; but since being turned to that Light, and believing in it, we have denied all such Ministers, and their Doctrine also, which led so contrary to the Doctrine of Christ, who came not destroy Men's Lives, but to save them: And the Parliament Army being not disbanded before this Light broke forth so fully amongst us; and some of us being then Members of the Army, as we were turned to that Light, and our Hearts given up to follow its Leadings, we cast off our Carnal Weapons of War, with a Resolution never to return to them again, but many of them we broke in Pieces, and converted them to better Uses, giving up ourselves to be Followers of him, who said, Love your Enemies, and do Good to them that hate you, etc. And our peaceable Deportment in our Conversations to this Time, have given a Faithful Testimony to the Reality of such our Resolution, and as Occasion hath required, have testified against such who hath professed to be of us, and yet through Provocation, or otherwise, have acted contrary to this our peaceable Principle: And so still both in our Doctrine and Practice, we bear Witness to that Excellency and Unchangeableness of that Holy Light, which we have believed in, which is by thee and thy Generation thus vilified and reproached, which shall dash you to Pieces, be you never so proud and losty, if ye repent not: And touching our owning Magistracy, and the King as Supreme (as the Lord hath set him) we have several Times by Writing, Declaration and Conversation, testified our Innocency and Fidelity herein, always being ready passively to suffer, where we cannot for Conscience sake actually obey: And if we may judge of Persons and Principles by Practice, then let such whose Understanding▪ are not blinded with Malice and Envy, judge who are farthest from Plunder and Murder, the Priests or we, let the Fruits of either testify, and that God who searcheth the Heart, and tries the Reins, to whom we commit our Cause, and appeal for Judgement, knows our Innocency, Fidelity and Integrity to the King and all People whatsoever; and that those Things which thou hast thus wickedly suggested and charged against us, are false Accusations of thy own forming, and Lies of thy own Inventing, for which thou hast brought no Evidence, but thy own envious false Affirmations: But what other or better Usage can we expect from the Hands of such an one as thou art, who hast not only thus wickedly belied, falsely accused and slandered such an Innocent People as we are, but hast taken upon thee most impudently, impiously and blasphemously to vilify & trample on that holy Light which we make a Profession of, which w● have always declared to be that true Light which John bore Testimony of, Joh 1. 9 calling it a Juggle, more Unconstant than that of the Moon, a mere Fantasy, a Diabolical Suggestion, Darkness within them, the very Blackness of Darkness within them; thou wicked Blasphemer of God, and false Accuser of his People, dost thou think thy Greatness shall secure thee from the Just Hand of God, when he shall render a Reward to all Men according to their Deeds.  
And now by the Blasphemy, wicked Insinuations, horrible Lies, and abominable Slanders, how hast thou manifested thyself guilty of that which thou hast charged falsely upon us (viz.) one that practices that which is contrary to the Law of Nature, good Manners, express Scripture, the Usages of all sober and civil People in the World, and therefore (by thy own Judgement) art so far from being a True Christian, that thou art not worthy the Name of a sober Man; How is the Wicked snared in the Work of his own Hands, and fallen into the Pit he hath digged for others? and the very Blackness of Darkness is thy Portion, except thou repent speedily.  
And T. G. hath other slighting and profane Expressions of that blessed Light, which we own and profess, as groundless Fancy, an Unconstant and Uncertain Guide, etc. By all which T. G. manifests himself one of those Builders who have set at nought the Cornerstone, and also his Ignorance of the Scriptures of Truth, which testify of the Light, to be the Way to the Father, that which gives the Knowledge of God, that in which the Nations of them that are saved must walk; and that People should believe in the Light, that they may be Children of the Light, and that they which follow it shall not abide in Darkness, with much more touching the Excellency, Certainty and Sufficiency of it; what Cause have we to bless the Lord, who hath delivered us from such blind Guides, who thus err, not knowing t●e Scriptures, nor the Power of God?  
Further, Thou sa'yst in thy Firmianus, You need not wonder, if you shall seriously consider that they Flatter themselves, that they are in a State of Perfection, that they cannot sin, are above Ordinances, that cast off Fear, and Restrain Prayer, Job. 15. 4. should fall into the Snare of the Devil, etc.  
Answ. Here are many more Lies, which thou castest on us, which thou must bear the Weight of thyself, which thou hast learned of the Father of Lies, and not of God, nor of Christ; for, no Lie is of the Truth, as saith Christ, the Truth. And as for our Flattering of ourselves, that we are in a State of Perfection; that is false: For we do not Flatter ourselves herein; thou dost us great Wrong herein, and thyself greater; for, in the End the Harm will be to thyself, when thou must bear thy own Burden for the Wrong thou hast done us herein; yet the Doctrine of Perfection we own, and must not deny it; for it was the Doctrine of Almighty God to Abraham, and also Christ's Doctrine in his Sermon in the Mount, as I said before; and the Church of England, which thou takest on thee to be a Member of, teacheth not contrary hereunto in Words, which teaches Godfathers and Godmothers (so called) to promise for Children in their Baptism, That when they come to Age, they shall forsake the Devil, and all his Works: But who art thou, that (doubtless) dost sometimes preach against Sin, and yet criest against such as own the Doctrine of Perfection, which, as I said before, was the Doctrine of Almighty God, and of Christ? Consider with thyself, whose Servant thou art, and whom thou followest herein.  
Again, Thou hast belied us in saying, we say, we cannot sin; for which of us didst thou ever hear say so? Yet I say as the Apostle saith, speaking of Christ, he that abideth in him, sinneth not. Further, whereas thou sayest of us, We cast off all Fear, and, restrain Prayer; that is false also; for we are of the same Mind with the Holy Apostle, which said, Let us therefore fear, lest a Promise being left us, etc. any of you come short, etc. as they did, even such who fell short of the Rest that was promised them, because of their Unbelief, Hebr. 4. 1, etc. And whereas thou sayest, We Restrain Prayer: How canst thou make this to appear? Our Practice in Praying often, and in making Supplication to God often, proves thee to be a Liar, and a false Accuser of us herein; and the Scripture thou bringest against us (Job. 15. 4,) to prove us such, serves not for thy Purpose against us herein: I believe, I know wherein it may be justly charged upon thyself, but now I have omitted it; but do say to thee, Repent of the great Sin and Wickedness that thou hast committed and done against the Truth, and the true Followers thereof, and do so no more, that the Lord may blot out thy Transgression.  
And as for John Toldervee's Recantation of. Quakerism, p ●8. it was long since Confuted, and afterwards Recanted of by Himself.  
And whereas thou mentionest two Franciscans, who did tell one Cowlishaw an Ironmonger in Bristol (whose Oath, thou sayest, is to be seen upon the Register) That within Eighteen Day's Quakerism should be set up in Bristol, etc. That hath long since been Answered. And as for William Prinn's Quakerism Unmasked, it was long since Answered, and his Falsehood Unmasked by John Audland; and also by George Whitehead, in his short Treatise, entitled, Truth Triumphing in a Suffering Time.  
And whereas thou sayest in thy Dubitantius, in the close of thy Dialogue against us; I am fully satisfied concerning the Folly and Madness of this Phanaticism, and from whence it sprang, etc.  
Answ. I desire, that when thou hast read this Answer to thy Dialogue against us, thou mayest see thy Own Folly and Madness in doing what thou didst therein, and be humbled before the Lord for thy great Sin against Him therein, and Repent thereof, resolving never to do the like again: This I desire thou mayest do for thy Own Good, and not abuse what is writ in answer to thee herein; however, if thou dost, I know with whom my Reward will be, and that is my Comfort, even with him who is the Rewarder of all the Faithful.  
From a Lover of Immortal Souls, and of the whole Creation of God, Edward Bourne. Worcester, the 21th of the 4th Month, 1675.  
THE END.